# DISH drops Court Tv



## trido (Nov 7, 2004)

Dish dropped Court TV
Simple enough for YOU now.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

Just the usual - Content provider wants "too much" of a price hike, Dish doesn't want to pay it - give it a week or two for them to compromise


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## juan ellitinez (Jan 31, 2003)

I really dont think too many people will miss "court tv"


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

My wife just told me it's still on at our house...


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## Dish Cubfan (Dec 5, 2004)

This is really starting to get ugly. What is up with Dish?


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## julesism (Feb 25, 2004)

scooper said:


> My wife just told me it's still on at our house...


as trido said, it's BIO content...


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## Dish Cubfan (Dec 5, 2004)

Court Tv is actaully a channel we watched. But let's keep Food HD???


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## saltrek (Oct 22, 2005)

Looks like we have an annual exercise to do. Every New Year's Day, turn on your TV and see which channels Dish couldn't come to terms with. Maybe we could even run a pool.


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## DJ Lon (Nov 3, 2005)

juan ellitinez said:


> I really dont think too many people will miss "court tv"


I agree with you. :lol:


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

I stopped watching Court TV when they stopped showing court cases and went to "rerun TV". Yet another channel that strayed too far from its origninal purpose.

See ya
Tony


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## Slamminc11 (Jan 28, 2005)

From what I understand, there are no major entertainment people with any prolonged court cases coming in 2007, so there really isn't a need to court-tv this year.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

saltrek said:


> Looks like we have an annual exercise to do. Every New Year's Day, turn on your TV and see which channels Dish couldn't come to terms with. Maybe we could even run a pool.


Sort of like the "Dead Pool" where people bet on who is going to die in the next year. What channel will disappear on what provider between now and Jan 1, 2008?


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

TNGTony said:


> I stopped watching Court TV when they stopped showing court cases and went to "rerun TV". Yet another channel that strayed too far from its origninal purpose.
> 
> See ya
> Tony


Yeah, I agree, too many channels out there now that have turned into "rerun tv." I just saw the other day that G4TV is now showing reruns of Cops.


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## albert71292 (Aug 19, 2005)

I'll be missing Dayle Hinman, Forensic Files, and those "high speed chase" shows...


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## Allen Noland (Apr 23, 2002)

I used to watch it more when it had LESS Cops on, so I guess I won't miss it as much now as I would have a year or so ago.


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## midnight75 (Jun 25, 2004)

Court TV has a message on their website with a number to call. Couldn't tell you who's number it is, though. It's not Dish's & it's not DirecTV's.


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## midwave (Jun 20, 2004)

I don't even care now...I've watched CourtTV once since it's been a channel...and I'm leaving Dish for DirecTV tomorrow anyways!


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## CoriBright (May 30, 2002)

I'll definitely miss Court TV. I need my daily dose of Catherine Crier.


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## Presence (Mar 14, 2004)

trido said:


> Great start to 2007 DISH has dropped Court tv right now BIO channel is. On courttv website right now says DISH has dropped Court Tv,plus minutes ago on CNN court Tv had a commercial about this Great great move by DISh.


Was I supposed to be able to read this post? You did pass high-school English, did you not?


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

Didn't you know that the world would come to an end if a la carte were available in any way? 

See ya
Tony


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## tedb3rd (Feb 2, 2006)

Ha! The irony of it all! Dish to drop Court TV?! I guess Dish doesn't want coverage of all the PVR/TiVo and distant networks lawsuits in '07!

Dang, I was looking at some of the pricing that DirecTV has... National Geo in their lowest $ package, locals 'included' in the price, $10/month for HD channels that don't mostly suck, per-account fee for PVR usage.... Hmmmm....


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## bderouen (Oct 27, 2006)

I just saw this on Satteliteguys.us. According to them, this is a quote from the Dish Network Retailers website:
(begin quote)
Court TV No Longer Available 
Effective January 1, 2007, Court TV ceased providing their programming to DISH Network and it's customers. DISH Network did not approve of this removal and has been working diligently to work out fair and reasonable terms to continue to carry this programming while not increasing the rates that our customers pay.

It is important to note that DISH Network continues to offer versatile programming within our existing DISH Network packages. Customers tuning in to Court TV on channel 204 will see Biography, normally available in the AT180 package.

Court TV is seeking to impose terms that are unfair to DISH Network and its customers. We are continuing to work diligently to negotiate fair contracts with Court TV, but we must also protect our customers from programmers who seek to impose unfair conditions. For more information, customers can visit www.fairsatellite.com, or call 888-889-4582. 
(end quote)

I personally don't care either way, as I never watched Court TV. I just thoguht I'd pass along some info I just found.

Bruce


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

jonsnow said:


> I say let me the customer make these decisions, once I buy a package let me drop a station too expensive for me to afford and let dish give me a refund on my bill. Also, our bill should list the cost of each channel that I am paying for. Of course the package lobby will whine about this idea, because it may affect their belief system.


No, my belief system is one of simple economics. You want to pay just for the
channels you want? If you think you'll get your favorites for $2 apiece, you're
dreaming. Ok, how about $5 per channel, plus a monthly base charge of, say,
$25 to cover your pro-rata share of the billion-dollar delivery costs and other
overhead?

If you get your wish, which I doubt you ever will, I guarantee you'll pay more for
it. Simple economics.


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## nazz (May 4, 2006)

We watch Court TV and I think this sucks.


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

Arn't providers supposed to give 30 days notice for potential dropped channels?


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## audrab (Jan 1, 2007)

Sounds like the standard 'form' letter they release when they try to explain their rationale on strong-arming channels to get more $$$ out of them(ie:-the parent companies). They released the same letter almost verbatim with Lifetime, OLN etc.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

tedb3rd said:


> Ha! The irony of it all! Dish to drop Court TV?! I guess Dish doesn't want coverage of all the PVR/TiVo and distant networks lawsuits in '07!


Not really. CourtTV wouldn't cover those cases - unless OJ or Michael Jackson were involved. Or perhaps it involved some car chases ending in crashes or shootouts.


tedb3rd said:


> Dang, I was looking at some of the pricing that DirecTV has... National Geo in their lowest $ package, locals 'included' in the price, $10/month for HD channels that don't mostly suck, per-account fee for PVR usage.... Hmmmm....


Oh, so you are trolling ...


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

trido said:


> Great start to 2007 DISH has dropped Court tv right now BIO channel is. On courttv website right now says DISH has dropped Court Tv,plus minutes ago on CNN court Tv had a commercial about this Great great move by DISh.
> 
> Trido


I've never watched Court TV and wouldn't miss it.


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## robert koerner (Aug 20, 2005)

Oh BOY!

A Murder She Wrote Marathaon on the BIO channel.

Sure wish I had a second hard drive for shows like that. :- )

Now I gotta get used to writing 2007.

Bob


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I always love the irony of people that complain about price increases THEN complain when Dish tries to curb more price increases from a particular channel.


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## StoshP (Mar 25, 2006)

Between Court TV being dropped and Indy NOT getting HD Locals, I'm outta here, E*!

For the same $$$, I can get both on cable... Adios...


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

HDMe said:


> I always love the irony of people that complain about price increases THEN complain when Dish tries to curb more price increases from a particular channel.


Ironic isn't it?


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

James Long said:


> Not really. CourtTV wouldn't cover those cases - unless OJ or Michael Jackson were involved. Or perhaps it involved some car chases ending in crashes or shootouts.Oh, so you are trolling ...


Do they really show trials? Just watch Judge Judy on your locals, if people like that stuff.


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

There's a difference between capital murder trials and the crybabies on Judge Judy. Wah! My neighbor ran over my lawn gnome, he owes me 4 dollars and thirty-seven cents plus a grand and a half for emotional damages.. Wah!


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## mplsjeffm (May 28, 2005)

I saw the ad on CNN telling dish people to contact dish about court TV
I guess Court TV is an aol/timeworner channel.
How can they insert an ad just to the dish people. I would think Dish and all other providers pull the signel from the same C-ban dish


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## Dish Cubfan (Dec 5, 2004)

Court TV has many other shows besides trials. I guess for those that don't watch it, it won't matter. We did watch it so we have the right to complain.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

The nice thing is that we lots of channels to choose from. What sucks is when one of your favorite channels gets taken off for some reason or another. Most of the time, these things blow over.


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

Presence said:


> Was I supposed to be able to read this post? You did pass high-school English, did you not?


Is "high-school" (sic) the minimum requirement?


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## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

I wonder what people's reaction would be if it was G4 that was pulled. :grin:


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

mplsjeffm said:


> I saw the ad on CNN telling dish people to contact dish about court TV
> I guess Court TV is an aol/timeworner channel.
> How can they insert an ad just to the dish people.  I would think Dish and all other providers pull the signel from the same C-ban dish


In the past (Viacom) the provider poluted all of their feeds with bashes of Dish Network. Viacom ran crawls that appeared on cable and DirecTV and (when E* started blacking out the crawls) started doing "only on cable and DirecTV" inserts between program and commercials on their channels (including channels E* left running). It can get dirty.

I doubt the ads are just being seen by Dish subscribers.


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

StoshP said:


> Between Court TV being dropped and Indy NOT getting HD Locals, I'm outta here, E*! ...


Good use of two posts. lol


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## StoshP (Mar 25, 2006)

SaltiDawg said:


> Good use of two posts. lol


Thanks... I prefer to read more than talk...


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## music_beans (Mar 21, 2003)

TNGTony said:


> I stopped watching Court TV when they stopped showing court cases and went to "rerun TV". Yet another channel that strayed too far from its origninal purpose.
> 
> See ya
> Tony


Last time I checked, CourtTV was still showing live court cases.

And, why would DISH just drop court TV without the rest of the Time Warner/Turner nets? (CourtTV was recently sold to Time Warner/Turner)


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## agreer (Apr 7, 2006)

theratpatrol said:


> Yeah, I agree, too many channels out there now that have turned into "rerun tv." I just saw the other day that G4TV is now showing reruns of Cops.


If nothing else mattered (read Sunday Ticket) I would be willing to say that the first provider who drops G4TV will get my business in my new place when I move in the next ~3 months


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## alfbinet (May 19, 2002)

Xandir said:


> I agree with you. :lol:


We do not.


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## normang (Nov 14, 2002)

Never missed it. don't care, useless waste of bandwidth... And of course this isn't the only channel i would give this classification.. You can always find someone who will miss it, but I hardly think Court TV, which rarely showed court room drama of any kind near as I can tell, won't missed here...


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

music_beans said:


> Last time I checked, CourtTV was still showing live court cases.
> 
> And, why would DISH just drop court TV without the rest of the Time Warner/Turner nets? (CourtTV was recently sold to Time Warner/Turner)


If they were just purchased they were probably not in the blanket Time Warner/Turner contract. I suspect Court Tv will be a bargaining point the next time renewal discussions come up with TW/T.


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## John W (Dec 20, 2005)

It appears the Time-Warner angle is important to Dish:

"For its part, Echostar says it continues to negotiate but that Turner was asking too much and that it was only looking out for the best interests of its customers, which it said it must protect "from unreasonable demands," according to senior VP, programming for DISH Network, Eric Sahl. "It is not fair to ask our customers to pay a DBS premium for a channel owned by the second largest cable operator, Time Warner," said Sahl in a statement."


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## greg12 (Jan 7, 2006)

I am personally glad that E* fights hard on companies that want to try raise rates! They are fighting to keep my rate down so I am all for it. Thanks E*!


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

greg12 said:


> They are fighting to keep my rate down so I am all for it. Thanks E*!


Well... they are fighting to keep their profits and market share up and indirectly our rates under control anyway. 

See ya
Tony


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## Dishlover (Sep 9, 2006)

I just called the Dish call center and they said that Court TV and dish network are currently in talks to bring the channel back!


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## Slamminc11 (Jan 28, 2005)

Dishlover said:


> I just called the Dish call center and they said that Court TV and dish network are currently in talks to bring the channel back!


LOL, yeah well that "negotiation" has been going on for a few months now.


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## ck33 (Jan 5, 2004)

I doubt the Court TV will be missed much in my household. Where my parents live, my dad watches it on occasion, but likes History and Nat'l. Geographic more. My mom will not mind. She really likes the Lifetime channels and the DIY / HGTV stuff and watches those channels mostly.

Speaking of Lifetime, wasn't it around this time last year that E* had their dispute with them?



> I wonder what people's reaction would be if it was G4 that was pulled. :grin:


I loved TechTV. I am a big computer buff, so I enjoyed watching Leo Laporte and Patrick Norton on "The Screen Savers," and Laporte and all on "Call for Help." They had good, one of a kind programs that you don't see anywhere else. Then, G4 swallowed the channel. Out goes the computer related stuff and in comes mostly video game programming. I play one video game on a regular basis, and it is from 1997 and runs under MS-DOS, so I am out of their target audience. Since the switch, I have tuned in to the channel maybe 4 or 5 times. Speaking for myself only, I couldn't care less if it goes away.


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

Andrew, if you like the old ZDTV stuff, check out Leo's podcasts, he does about a dozen of them now as part of his TWIT Network. Pat has a few podcasts as well, Jim Lauderback does one called What's New Now which is very similar to the old Fresh Gear he did with Sumi Das. These guys are doing some great stuff, and they are a lot more 'free' since they basically are their own boss.


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

I support Charlie 100% in this effort.Even though I have a different provider the cost of DISH programming is reflected in the programming that I buy.So I will just say"Go get 'um Charlie we're with you"!.


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## colavsfaninnwia (Jan 25, 2006)

Mark Holtz said:


> I wonder what people's reaction would be if it was G4 that was pulled. :grin:


I watch G4 for Attack of the Show. Used to watch more of that channel back when it was TechTV or even G4Tech TV.


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

StoshP said:


> Thanks... I prefer to read more than talk...


We can see why. lol


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

> I wonder what people's reaction would be if it was G4 that was pulled


An interesting thought. I wouldn't miss it since I have probably put in a about 30 minutes there since the change. But, you have to realize that G4 will never go away because Echostar is a minority investor in the channel. It is in their interest to keep it on.


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## bamahd (Dec 1, 2006)

Way to go dish!! I could care less but my wife loves court tv and she certainly influences what we subscribe to. I can tell you that she is going to have me look into what it costs to switch to direct tv. C'mon dish, Direct is about to launch 2 more satellites and are planning to offer several new HD channels so don't you want to keep the subs you have?


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## PBowie (Jan 4, 2006)

midwave said:


> I don't even care now...I've watched CourtTV once since it's been a channel...and I'm leaving Dish for DirecTV tomorrow anyways!


ME neither, never watched it
now, If Dish can get rid of all the Home shopping channels
Spanish Channels (that are not extra Pay for)
religious channels
that I Have to have

Maybe my bill will go down a bit.......


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## juan ellitinez (Jan 31, 2003)

PBowie said:


> ME neither, never watched it
> now, If Dish can get rid of all the Home shopping channels
> Spanish Channels (that are not extra Pay for)
> religious channels
> ...


NO Those channels PAY for carriage.. If the removed them your bill would INCREASE


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## Aransay (Jun 19, 2006)

PBowie said:


> ME neither, never watched it
> now, If Dish can get rid of all the Home shopping channels
> Spanish Channels (that are not extra Pay for)
> religious channels
> ...


if dfish i aplninh to enter to altina emrica drietly or dinly spnish chanel are a msot
they shoula d mroe

what they shoukleb right of are cvulturarl and porn ch ahanels, also shoping ahanels that are rap

Bigrphy i lot beter th ocurt

i think that what they ashoudle o ai use compelte sateli with spanishand itnernationals leave 110 anad 199 sjtu for englsish antionals

hd in dsperte staelites

adnlcoal difernte oen 8withou pos *


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## Ryanm86 (Oct 18, 2006)

colavsfaninnwia said:


> I watch G4 for Attack of the Show. Used to watch more of that channel back when it was TechTV or even G4Tech TV.


I stopped watching G4 the second they fired Alex A. and Kevin R. Screw G4!


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## Hound (Mar 20, 2005)

Courttv is still in the channel lineup on 204. There is no message that it is not
being transmitted.


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## Ohioankev (Jan 19, 2006)

Hound said:


> Courttv is still in the channel lineup on 204. There is no message that it is not
> being transmitted.


I could careless about CourtTv. The only shows I watched on the channel were those clip shows and after three or four episodes a day for a week it had gotten old. I mean you can find COPS on FX, FOX, Syndication and now apparently G4 TV. 
Talking about G4TV I used to watch the channel when it was TechTV but now i only find myself watching random episodes of Star Trek but now TVLand and Sydication show those so if G4 was dropped I could careless.

With HD people talk more channels but half the channels we have now are useless. Even distants have the same syndicated programming now so there isn't much of a variety anymore.

If Charlie likes to play hardball so be it because Time Warner would rather us see the advertisers than overcharge Echostar for a station and lose 13 million potentia viewers who would view thier advertisments. On both sides it it boils down to money.

(sarcastic remark)
Maybe if Charlie can't reach an agreement and since NPS has the right to sell Court Tv maybe Charlie can reach a deal and Court TV viewers can purchase Court TV from NPS.

Serious Again .. 
This is probably Time Warner playing hardball with Echostar over Cinemax. 
They probably pulled the feeds, didn't give them an extension until an agreement was made to upset consumers of DISH Network.

I called the 800# on Court TV's website and some porn star from the 80's tells you that it was an injustice that court tv has been dropped because Charlie is a cheapskate and wants to not have to reraise rates after just raising them. Press 1 to switch to Direct Tv or press 2 to switch to local cable. No thank you i'll stick with DISH.

Anyone else find the irony in a rates raise, but instead of added channels we lose one systemwide ? So does the America 200 now become the America 199 ?

This made me laugh considering i'm on the TOP 180 package; it's a great free preview of the station i already have, and never watch 

"With the loss of Court TV, EchoStar said it is offering its customers a free preview of A&E's Biography Channel. "


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## FTA Michael (Jul 21, 2002)

Multichannel News reports that "EchoStar said Monday that Turner 'ceased delivery' of Court TV to Dish Network subscribers after Turner refused to offer a contract extension in order to allow for 'continued negotiations.'" According to the story, Turner expects "top 20" channel money, while E* is complaining that Turner is wanting a "DBS premium" for a TW-owned channel.

The full six-paragraph story is here: http://multichannel.com/article/CA6403308.html


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## jrb531 (May 29, 2004)

Nick said:


> No, my belief system is one of simple economics. You want to pay just for the
> channels you want? If you think you'll get your favorites for $2 apiece, you're
> dreaming. Ok, how about $5 per channel, plus a monthly base charge of, say,
> $25 to cover your pro-rata share of the billion-dollar delivery costs and other
> ...


http://www.publicintegrity.org/telecom/report.aspx?aid=395



> A Center for Public Integrity investigation of hundreds of filings with the Federal Communications Commission, lobbying reports and other documents reveals that the "grass roots" opposition to a la carte is actually a highly sophisticated lobbying campaign where seemingly disinterested third parties-like nonprofits and legislators-are spreading the anti-a la carte message using minority programming as the key issue.
> 
> In fact, rather than being disinterested, these third parties have much to gain. The Center has identified hundreds of thousands of dollars in donations and other benefits showered by cable companies on some of these nonprofits. The Center also found one instance in which free airtime was made available to a mayors group and identified nearly $60,000 in contributions to one key pro-cable congressman.


Posted this in another thread but it makes an interesting read. Why are they so afraid of ala-cart, theme packages or "any" method that gives us even a limited control on what we pay for?

-JB


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## Bullwinkle501 (Sep 13, 2002)

jrb531 said:


> http://www.publicintegrity.org/telecom/report.aspx?aid=395
> 
> Posted this in another thread but it makes an interesting read. Why are they so afraid of ala-cart, theme packages or "any" method that gives us even a limited control on what we pay for?
> 
> -JB


This is the most basic argument against ala carte: it would make it much harder to build an audience for ANY new network that does not have an existing brand name. This would not hurt start-up channels like National Geographic. But how would the Documentary Channel, Spike TV or Versus find an audience? They would have to spend billions on direct mail or by paying for open previews and heavily promoting them. So many of those channels would not exist.

There would be no ability for find an audience through no-risk sampling. Hundreds of thousands of people stumbled onto Food Network by stumbling onto Iron Chef and getting hooked. I never watched it until I stumbled across it while surfing. Now I am a big fan of Food AND Food HD.

In an ala carte world that would not be possible, and we all would be the poorer for it. And I have NOTHING to do with programming companies, etc. I like being exposed to diverse programming.

With ala carte we would all have about 20 channels and be paying the same as we do for 180 now. Why? Because we would see what these things really cost, especially if we chose ESPN and CNN, which would probably eat up 30% of most bills.

Now there is incentive for people to start new channels. With ala carte, there would be much less incentive.

That said, I never watch court tv. But I hope Dish works something out.


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

Not to sound stupid, however I guess I am sounding that way.

SpikeTV I know, however what is Versus?


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## adam1115 (Dec 16, 2003)

mplsjeffm said:


> I saw the ad on CNN telling dish people to contact dish about court TV
> I guess Court TV is an aol/timeworner channel.
> How can they insert an ad just to the dish people. I would think Dish and all other providers pull the signel from the same C-ban dish


I don't know how the COULD do that, but they didn't.

I saw the ads on CNN on Comcast.


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## HokieJoe (Apr 23, 2004)

midwave said:


> I don't even care now...I've watched CourtTV once since it's been a channel...and I'm leaving Dish for DirecTV tomorrow anyways!


I'm just curious, but why?

I was with Dish starting in 2003. I bought my own PVR501 and stayed with them until 05/06. I switched because some lackey in India told me that in order to upgrade to a two-room setup that I'd have to pay extra for a new dish installation. Consequently, I jumped to Direct TV for the free upgrade.

Big mistake...

What I don't like about Direct:

Their DVR software/remote function for the R15 DVR sucks compared to my old PRV501 from Dish. In particular, the fast forward/pause/slo-mo functions on the R15 remote are crap IMO.

For me, the channel line-up is a little better with Dish. With my Dish package ESPNU came standard with the package. I figured that I could do without it once I switched to Direct, but have regretted that decision, and I refuse Direct TV anymore money than what I'm paying them now.

Lastly, Direct has a goofy billing cycle. They run they're billing cycle from the 20th to the 19th of the next month. What are they, a credit card company? Run the d*mn billing cycle from the 1st to the 30th or whatever. I'm just not interested in Direct's accounting gimmicks.

Anyway, all of this is IMO obviously, but I'm seriously unsatisfied with Direct. I'd like your thoughts on this because I'm seriously thinking of buying out the remainder of my two year contract with Direct (ends effective 05/28/08). The CSR I spoke with told me that the amount would be prorated @ $12/month for the remainder of the unused contract.


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## YKW06 (Feb 2, 2006)

TBoneit said:


> Not to sound stupid, however I guess I am sounding that way.
> 
> SpikeTV I know, however what is Versus?


Versus is the usedta-be Outdoor Life Network (OLN). It changed its name in the latter part of 2006 to reflect the fact that a large portion of its lineup had less to do with the outdoors than with general competitive athletic endeavors, both in and out of doors.


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## MLB17 (Sep 20, 2006)

Just want to say that I completely support Dish Network working to keep our prices low. Keep up the good work Charlie!


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## Araxen (Dec 18, 2005)

Does court tv even broadcast real courtroom cases anymore? If they don't, Dish is a fool to dish out any money for this channel. I'm sure there are alot better channels they can replace it with without being gouged by the court tv people.

I wish Directv would take a stand against channels that try to gouge them. My bill is already high enough I don't need the rerun tv channels(aka Courtv, G4tv, etc..) jacking up my costs and I'm sure Dish feels the same.


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

ck33 said:


> I doubt the Court TV will be missed much in my household. Where my parents live, my dad watches it on occasion, but likes History and Nat'l. Geographic more. My mom will not mind. She really likes the Lifetime channels and the DIY / HGTV stuff and watches those channels mostly.
> 
> Speaking of Lifetime, wasn't it around this time last year that E* had their dispute with them?
> 
> I loved TechTV. I am a big computer buff, so I enjoyed watching Leo Laporte and Patrick Norton on "The Screen Savers," and Laporte and all on "Call for Help." They had good, one of a kind programs that you don't see anywhere else. Then, G4 swallowed the channel. Out goes the computer related stuff and in comes mostly video game programming. I play one video game on a regular basis, and it is from 1997 and runs under MS-DOS, so I am out of their target audience. Since the switch, I have tuned in to the channel maybe 4 or 5 times. Speaking for myself only, I couldn't care less if it goes away.


Leo said on his KFI radio show Saturday they're shooting Call for Help in HD because lots of channels are asking for premium content.


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## Ohioankev (Jan 19, 2006)

Here is part of the commercial for DISH Subscribers from CNN.





EDIT: 
Earlier I posted the guide information changes back to Court at midnight tonight making it look like Court TV would be restored soon however it seems the guide information changes from Court TV listings to Biography listings ever two hours. How Echostar is handling this is weird and not typical Echostar. I wonder if it has anything to do with that HBO gag order where they cannot discuss the nature of thier contract with Time Warner.


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## juan ellitinez (Jan 31, 2003)

Ohioankev said:


> I just noticed something about the EPG guide data a few minutes ago. The EPG Guide data for 204 has Biography Channel shows listed until midnight then it becomes Court TV programming. So if the EPG can tell the future, at 12:00 am tonight we'll have Court TV back.
> 
> Here is part of the commercial for DISH Subscribers from CNN.


 Don't count on it !!


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## lee635 (Apr 17, 2002)

Nick said:


> No, my belief system is one of simple economics. You want to pay just for the
> channels you want? If you think you'll get your favorites for $2 apiece, you're
> dreaming. Ok, how about $5 per channel, plus a monthly base charge of, say,
> $25 to cover your pro-rata share of the billion-dollar delivery costs and other
> ...


What? What about the old Dishpicks or whatever it was called? You could choose something like 10 channels for fifteen bucks or some such charge... No doubt someone will post the exact figures, but the point is that $5 per channel PLUS $25 flat fee -- no way. Good gravy, we have the family package for less than your flat rate "infrastructure fee".

I do not agree with your unsupported assertion that alacarte will cost more. How about analyzing the facts? We could create a graph of the number of channels and the cost of each package then create a straight line or least squares regression line. That would provide a crude estimate of how the cost per channel changes as you subscribe to more and more basic channels. Now, this crude method isn't perfect because not all channels are priced the same, but it would give at least a reality based, data driven argument for discussion.

Looking at dish family, that's about 22 "real" basic channels (eliminating the cspans and so forth) for $20 a month, so that's just under a dollar a month per channel. That's far below the $5 per channel that you've quoted here, so there is a $4 per channel alacarte premium -- I don't think so. I could see an alacarte scheme where a customer must subscribe to at least $20 per month in programming or some similar minimum threshold.

With alacarte there will be $5 channels -- espn, foxsports and so forth, but most of the others would fall in at much lower rates.

I suspect that with alacarte, we would see most folks sticking with a package, but perhaps deleting a couple of channels from the package to get some savings or adding a couple of channels to a package to get that couple of other channels that they want.


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## ck33 (Jan 5, 2004)

> Andrew, if you like the old ZDTV stuff, check out Leo's podcasts, he does about a dozen of them now as part of his TWIT Network. Pat has a few podcasts as well, Jim Lauderback does one called What's New Now which is very similar to the old Fresh Gear he did with Sumi Das. These guys are doing some great stuff, and they are a lot more 'free' since they basically are their own boss.


Thanks. I had no clue that the old TechTV stars did podcasts. I will have to check them out.

The weird thing about this Court TV situation is this - usually when a channel goes belly up due to contract disputes, when I would go to my EPG on either of my 301s, the listing would read "OFF AIR - Please press INFO..." and when I would do that, the EPG info would explain in better detail what was going on. That does not seem to be the case here. The Court TV content was yanked and replaced with Biography content, and the EPG has the correct BIO info on the channel labeled COURT. Misleading for sure, but it makes me wonder if this dispute will be ending soon. Why no "off air" slate, I wonder?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

lee635 said:


> Looking at dish family, that's about 22 "real" basic channels (eliminating the cspans and so forth) for $20 a month, so that's just under a dollar a month per channel. That's far below the $5 per channel that you've quoted here, so there is a $4 per channel alacarte premium -- I don't think so.


Don't expect a la carte to be at the "bulk price" (per channel) offered in packages.

Even if a channel in AT60 was only getting 20¢ they are getting 13 million (or so) subscribers paying 20¢. 2.6 million isn't bad. Now put that channel in a la carte and hope that 5 million people will pay 50¢ for it so they can break even (if they get all 50¢).

Channels can afford to sign those 20¢ per subscriber contracts when there is a guaranteed viewer base.


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

> I wish Directv would take a stand against channels that try to gouge them. My bill is already high enough I don't need the rerun tv channels(aka Courtv, G4tv, etc..) jacking up my costs and I'm sure Dish feels the same.


All In All, I don't believe it makes a difference. DirecTV hardly ever has any hissy fits with programming providers, Dish does it on a regular basis. If Dish Network charged $40 and DirecTV charged $75 for a similar package then you'd have a point, Dish and DirecTV are so evenly priced you have nothing. Sure depending on what you want one provider may come out a few bucks cheaper than the other, you can work out a few dozen scenarios where Dish is cheaper then DirecTV by a buck or two, but the same holds true in reverse. If you compare apples to apples and take a few things into consideration, Dish and DirecTV are about even.

And to echo what someone else said, Chuckie is not doing this because he doesn't want to see your bills increase, he is not doing it to stand up against those 'evil entertainment conglomerates', he's doing it to save his own dime. Anything else that comes out of it is just a fringe benefit. Just like I don't believe for a second TW is worried about increasing sub costs when it comes to the NFL Network. I'm sure these companies have bean counters who do market and cost analysis to see if it's worthwhile.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I can't remember where I read it, but someone posted that they got a $2.00 credit on their bill by calling Dish and complaining about CourtTV being dropped. If this is true, I wonder why more folks aren't asking how in the world CourtTV is worth $2.00 a month!

That seems kind of steep to me based on what I've heard the described content to be... but it's all rumor so I don't know whether that info was accurate or not.


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## Slamminc11 (Jan 28, 2005)

HDMe said:


> I can't remember where I read it, but someone posted that they got a $2.00 credit on their bill by calling Dish and complaining about CourtTV being dropped. If this is true, I wonder why more folks aren't asking how in the world CourtTV is worth $2.00 a month!
> 
> That seems kind of steep to me based on what I've heard the described content to be... but it's all rumor so I don't know whether that info was accurate or not.


If someone is that hard up for $2 over a channel like Court-TV, then they may want to look at lowering their programming or dropping sat-tv all together!


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## james39 (Dec 10, 2003)

whatever happened to a channel supporting itself on ad revenue alone? Isn't that what local TV stations do? I don't see any fewer commercials on the likes of court-tv and G4, so where do they get off expecting Dish to pay a premium for their carriage? The other thing is that, if the whole system ended up a-la-carte, I do imagine seeing a $2 charge per channel, but I also expect a lot of garbage channels either going away and sending their good content to other channels, or they might switch to a similar model that broadcast TV uses (free to all people with dish/direct/cable) and supporting themselves on ad revenue. It can be done.


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

YKW06 said:


> Versus is the usedta-be Outdoor Life Network (OLN). It changed its name in the latter part of 2006 to reflect the fact that a large portion of its lineup had less to do with the outdoors than with general competitive athletic endeavors, both in and out of doors.


Ah, that explains it, 150 Speed and 153 I look at and I think I've watched the bull riding on 151 but never noticed the name change. Unless on a 501 it shows different than on the 622? I seem to watch different channels on the 501 than on the 622.

I sure wish the channels would keep to their original purpose and themes. I used to watch TechTv and seem to recall it was ZDnet? before that but haven't even looked at it since it went to G4...

Thanks for clearing up my confusion.


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

DirecTV stand up for anything except collecting money? Hah!

They should rename it "BOHICA". If you listen to NJ 101.5 Fm in the morning you know what that stands for.

One reason I switched from D* to E*


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

james39 said:


> whatever happened to a channel supporting itself on ad revenue alone? Isn't that what local TV stations do?


For the most part, OTA supports itself through ad revenue... but then there are PBS stations that take donations and some government funding as well.



james39 said:


> ...or they might switch to a similar model that broadcast TV uses (free to all people with dish/direct/cable)...


Where are local channels available for free on satellite or cable? OTA is free... but I've never seen a satellite or cable company that didn't charge something for local channels even if it is just a few dollars.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

HDMe said:


> Where are local channels available for free on satellite or cable? OTA is free... but I've never seen a satellite or cable company that didn't charge something for local channels even if it is just a few dollars.


Just to qualify that question:

DirecTV "includes" locals in their total choice packages but drops the price by $3 if your locals are not available (I wonder how much of a fight it would be to not have locals where they are available).

Cable has their 'lifeline' packages with local stations and usually a few others ... they charge for lifeline cable.

Yea, OTA is the only subscription free TV I know of (except FTA satellite).


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## BaldEagle (Jun 19, 2006)

Court TV is still on here?


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

BaldEagle said:


> Court TV is still on here?


Where would "here" be? Not on Dish. Channel 204 has "COURT" on the EPG, but the programming is actually The Biography Channel right now.

See ya
Tony


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Yep. Channel 204 has the Biography Channel "bug" in the corner.


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

A la carte programming was available years ago when I was using a big C-band dish.

It was only cost-effective for me when I took an absolute minimum number of channels. The price increased so much with any "normal" group of channels that the packages were cheaper, and offered more.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

A la carte makes a lot more sense on C Band where changing channels usually involves waiting for the dish to physically move. Some may not even have line of sight to the entire arc. In the 'years ago' there was also less to subscribe to.


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## FTA Michael (Jul 21, 2002)

Multichannel News has added a good long article by Linda Moss about the dispute. http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6403596.html Highlights:

The dispute is about Dish wanting to move Court TV from AT60 to AT120. Turner doesn't like that and wants a higher fee to compensate.

Turner domestic distribution prez Andy Heller says they haven't talked with Dish since New Year's Eve. He didn't sound optimistic about a quick return.

"We offered them an extension with no change whatsoever, just maintain the status quo," (Heller said). "This is the first time someone said, 'No, I don't want an extension' &#8230; I've never been in a situation where a network went dark."

It's a very nice article. Go check it out.


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## John W (Dec 20, 2005)

FTA Michael said:


> Multichannel News has added a good long article by Linda Moss about the dispute. http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6403596.html Highlights:
> 
> The dispute is about Dish wanting to move Court TV from AT60 to AT120. Turner doesn't like that and wants a higher fee to compensate.
> 
> ...


And Dish is quoted as saying they weren't offered an extension in Top 120.No kidding, that isn't where it was so by definition I don't think that would be an extension.


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## dddane (Mar 14, 2006)

TNGTony said:


> I stopped watching Court TV when they stopped showing court cases and went to "rerun TV". Yet another channel that strayed too far from its origninal purpose.
> 
> See ya
> Tony


CourtTV still shows court cases live, but there isn't always a national appeal court case during the day that's truly worth following. court cases don't happen at night, though, so it's only during the day that they do this... courttv currently has a 2 format day. during the day it's more of a court news station, and at night it's designed to be an entertainment type station. courttv is officially part of turner's "entertainment" division, not news.

entertainment-wise, they also have more *original * programming than nearly any other entertainment cable network out there (more than usa, tnt, comedy, spike, tbs, vh1, fx, etc), and it repeats less often. other entertainment networks do have a lot of original programming, but in total minutes its far less because they replay the same shows over and over (mtv, for example replays everything several times even in the same day)

the real issue of the dispute was they wanted to change Court from the "top 60" to "top 120" and not change the dollars involved. (turner and other networks offer a discount to those who distribute it to more homes). Turner wasn't asking for more money, essentially it was Dish asking for more money. it's just like any ad based business... more distribution and you get the product cheaper, less and you pay more. newspapers, magazines, tv, and even web sites all use this model.


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## juan ellitinez (Jan 31, 2003)

Incase nobody noticed COURTV IS BACK AND ACTIVE ON E*!!!


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## dddane (Mar 14, 2006)

juan ellitinez said:


> Incase nobody noticed COURTV IS BACK AND ACTIVE ON E*!!!


really, as of when?? you're sure it's not the biography channel you're seeing?


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## juan ellitinez (Jan 31, 2003)

dddane said:


> really, as of when?? you're sure it's not the biography channel you're seeing?


 POSITIVE.. happened in "uplink activity" around 11 am.. Verified myself by tuning in the channel


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## juan ellitinez (Jan 31, 2003)

juan ellitinez said:


> wrooong I appolgize "murder she wrote" is now showing


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## grooves12 (Oct 27, 2005)

James Long said:


> Don't expect a la carte to be at the "bulk price" (per channel) offered in packages.
> 
> Even if a channel in AT60 was only getting 20¢ they are getting 13 million (or so) subscribers paying 20¢. 2.6 million isn't bad. Now put that channel in a la carte and hope that 5 million people will pay 50¢ for it so they can break even (if they get all 50¢).
> 
> Channels can afford to sign those 20¢ per subscriber contracts when there is a guaranteed viewer base.


Don't forget that a LARGE portion of revenue generated from each channel is from advertising, and advertising rates are based on viewership, so if viewers drop by 1/3, than that will have to be made up for in the subscriber fee.

It all becomes very complicated. So most channels would end up being 5-10x the cost as they are in a package... and like someone else said, a la carte will make it much less likely any new channels and content is developed as the barriers to entry would be too high.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Which reminds me ... we already have a thread about a la carte ...
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=73933

:backtotop (E* vs CourtTV)


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

You know... I haven't seen the line forming for all the people leaving Dish because of no CourtTV... and I never see the line form when this happens (like last year with LifeTime).. so this probably is WAY more discussion in this forum than is happening around the country with the majority of Dish viewers.

I bet most folks didn't even notice. Evidence on this forum suggests that too, as more than one person has posted "CourtTV is here" or "is back" clearly not familiar with the type of programming it has and not noticing it is really Biography. Of course this also means many people aren't familiary with Biography either! 

If I hadn't been watching a Law & Order marathon Sunday night on TNTHD, I wouldn't have known until coming to the forum here... but they were running commercials almost every break about it which prompted me to check out what was going on.


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## FTA Michael (Jul 21, 2002)

(nothing new here) Rocky Mountain News: Missing! Court TV Disappears from Dish
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/tech/article/0,2777,DRMN_23910_5252672,00.html


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## Dishrat (Jan 4, 2007)

The Dishnetwork agents are now telling people who call in that Court TV is trying to raise rates by 70%.

They're also saying that Court TV *pulled* their signal, for whatever that's worth. Interestingly enough, the Dishnetwork employees didn't even know it was going to happen. Suddenly at midnight they were getting a flood of calls of people who had their Cops marathon interrupted. Fifteen minutes later the 'talking points' were up.


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## John W (Dec 20, 2005)

Dishrat said:


> The Dishnetwork agents are now telling people who call in that Court TV is trying to raise rates by 70%.
> 
> They're also saying that Court TV *pulled* their signal, for whatever that's worth. Interestingly enough, the Dishnetwork employees didn't even know it was going to happen. Suddenly at midnight they were getting a flood of calls of people who had their Cops marathon interrupted. Fifteen minutes later the 'talking points' were up.


Its fairly obvious from the way their own web site languished as barely functional for years that Charlie and the gang have no idea the average person can discover the whole story with a couple mouse clicks.


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## jrb531 (May 29, 2004)

grooves12 said:


> Don't forget that a LARGE portion of revenue generated from each channel is from advertising, and advertising rates are based on viewership, so if viewers drop by 1/3, than that will have to be made up for in the subscriber fee.
> 
> It all becomes very complicated. So most channels would end up being 5-10x the cost as they are in a package... and like someone else said, a la carte will make it much less likely any new channels and content is developed as the barriers to entry would be too high.


Just because you "can" see the channel does not mean you are actually watching it.

If you handpick the channel the chances that you are actually watching it are far far more than if it was forced on you.

If a channel costs 20 cents in bulk I would be glad to have the option to pay 5x or 10x that amount if I could pick it as something I want.

So bring on the $1 or $2 or even $3 channels! - just let me pick them and not you!

-JB


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## jrb531 (May 29, 2004)

James Long said:


> Which reminds me ... we already have a thread about a la carte ...
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=73933
> 
> :backtotop (E* vs CourtTV)


ROTFL - please don't make me post in two threads 

-JB


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

jrb531 said:


> ROTFL - please don't make me post in two threads


Wouldn't dream of it .. in fact, I'd probably move any a la carte posts here TO the other thread.

E* put this up:
http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/programming/missingchannels/courttv/index.shtml


> Turner Network's Unreasonable Demands to Renew Carriage of CourtTV
> Results in Loss of Service to DISH Network Customers
> 
> DISH Network's contract with Turner Networks expired Dec. 31, 2006. Consequently, at 10:00 p.m. MT on Dec. 31, 2006, Turner Networks ceased delivery of CourtTV to DISH Network customers. DISH Network deeply regrets the disruption of service. Over the past several months, DISH Network diligently tried to reach an agreement with Turner Networks for continued carriage of CourtTV. Dish Network offered to carry CourtTV in America's Top 120 package, which reaches approximately 75% of Dish Network's domestic subscribers. Unfortunately, Turner Networks refused to deliver a reasonable offer for carriage in America's Top 120 package that fairly reflected CourtTV's overall ratings performance and value. Their response was to demand more than a 70% increase in rates.


There are additional comments on the page.

The question not answered is why E* wanted to move CourtTV out of AT60 and if there are other channels they are planning to push up into higher packages.


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## Araxen (Dec 18, 2005)

70% increase in rates? for reruns mostly? lol

If I was Charlie I would have told them to talk a walk on a short pier and never come back. That's ridiculous what they are trying to charge.


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## CoriBright (May 30, 2002)

For someone who does subscribe to a higher package, I am VERY upset that I'm not still getting my CourtTV. Dump it out of the AT60 if they want, I don't care, I have HD Platinum/AEP or whatever they want to call the damn thing, I WANT all the channels I've already paid for.


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## Freckles (Jun 13, 2005)

I watch Court TV and hope it will be back soon. I only wish my "vote" for Court TV in this forum would make a difference.


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## tootallannie (Jan 5, 2007)

Slamminc11 said:


> From what I understand, there are no major entertainment people with any prolonged court cases coming in 2007, so there really isn't a need to court-tv this year.


Well, I like to watch Cops when there's nothing else on.


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## tootallannie (Jan 5, 2007)

HDMe said:


> You know... I haven't seen the line forming for all the people leaving Dish because of no CourtTV... and I never see the line form when this happens (like last year with LifeTime).. so this probably is WAY more discussion in this forum than is happening around the country with the majority of Dish viewers.
> 
> I bet most folks didn't even notice. Evidence on this forum suggests that too, as more than one person has posted "CourtTV is here" or "is back" clearly not familiar with the type of programming it has and not noticing it is really Biography. Of course this also means many people aren't familiary with Biography either!
> 
> If I hadn't been watching a Law & Order marathon Sunday night on TNTHD, I wouldn't have known until coming to the forum here... but they were running commercials almost every break about it which prompted me to check out what was going on.


I am one Dish customer that is now considering DirectTV. It's more the principle than whether or not one channel goes down or how much it is viewed. I can GET all these channels with DirectTV and not pay any more than I do for Dish. Or I could pay a little more for cable and even get local channels.

I have not been happy with Dish for some time. I paid my bill online. They are the only site that requires that you put in your entire routing number for checking in one box. It came back once as a "bounced" check because one of the numbers was off. I gave them the benefit of the doubt since they waived the $20 fee and waited SIX MONTHS to be able to pay online again.

This time I checked the routing number THREE times to make sure it was correct. Bounced again and this time they refused to waive the extra $20.

Sorry for the OT rant. But it just seems they're trying their best to get rid of customers not keep them.


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## angiecopus (May 18, 2004)

If any of you watch cops, G4 formally techtv shows it.


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

This highlights one of my main complaints with E*.

Mr. Ergen runs it more like a small-town TV cable than a national satellite provider.

It shows a lack of professionalism when he has these public tiffs with the media companies, especially when D* has basically the same channels for about the same cost with no such issues.


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

angiecopus said:


> If any of you watch cops, G4 formally techtv shows it.


Yeah I am really surprised at this, them being a game/tech channel. Looks like they're turning into another rerun network.


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## Link (Feb 2, 2004)

I'd rather have the Biography Channel which we are getting now in the Top 60 package...I hope Court TV doesn't return!


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## jsk (Dec 27, 2006)

I'm glad that E* refuses to pay too much for channels that only a small portion of their audience watches. If I have to live without a channel or two for a while, so be it. The cable networks & TV station owners know that they can't get away with overcharging E* or they will be dropped. That's why our rates don't go up as much as cable TV.

Keep in mind that D* has an easier time in negotiations because they are part of a big media conglomerate (i.e. News Corp.) that no one wants to fool with.


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## Link (Feb 2, 2004)

jsk said:


> I'm glad that E* refuses to pay too much for channels that only a small portion of their audience watches. If I have to live without a channel or two for a while, so be it. The cable networks & TV station owners know that they can't get away with overcharging E* or they will be dropped. That's why our rates don't go up as much as cable TV.
> 
> Keep in mind that D* has an easier time in negotiations because they are part of a big media conglomerate (i.e. News Corp.) that no one wants to fool with.


I think some channels like Court TV are losing value especially if they show just a bunch of reruns. Another channel I don't care much for anymore is CMT, since they have gotten away from country music based programs for these silly reality shows. GAC is the station that is more country music oriented with music videos and the Grand Ole Opry show. I'd rather see GAC in the lower packages and not have CMT, but they are part of Viacom so of course it would get preference.


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## Nick79 (Sep 5, 2006)

It so bad that even Digital Spy has a short article covering the fight. Besides a free preview of a channel is much better idea than the slot going dark anyways. I got to see the Biography Channel, which I normally couldn't watch because it's in top 250. I rather that they show those channels rather than leaving the channel blank.


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

Freckles said:


> I watch Court TV and hope it will be back soon. I only wish my "vote" for Court TV in this forum would make a difference.


It doesn't! Write Turner.


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## tegage (Sep 3, 2005)

jsk said:


> I'm glad that E* refuses to pay too much for channels that only a small portion of their audience watches. If I have to live without a channel or two for a while, so be it. The cable networks & TV station owners know that they can't get away with overcharging E* or they will be dropped. That's why our rates don't go up as much as cable TV.
> 
> Keep in mind that D* has an easier time in negotiations because they are part of a big media conglomerate (i.e. News Corp.) that no one wants to fool with.


I agree. If the satellite providers don't hold their ground, we'll have more channels, but higher costs to go along with that.

As a person who get locals OTA I have a hard time justifying what I pay for the AT60 given that I only watch 4 or 5 channels


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

Freckles said:


> I watch Court TV and hope it will be back soon. I only wish my "vote" for Court TV in this forum would make a difference.


There have been over 7500 'views' of this thread -- an impressive number. If only half of you who
want your Court TV back took the time to email Charlie Ergen, that might make a difference.

[email protected]


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## BaldEagle (Jun 19, 2006)

Nick said:


> There have been over 7500 'views' of this thread -- an impressive number. If only half of you who
> want your Court TV back took the time to email Charlie Ergen, that might make a difference.
> 
> [email protected]


Sent my email.


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## Zero327 (Oct 10, 2006)

I think it's rather amusing. Besides, if true a la carte were available customers would then want to pick their own pricing too. So I don't blame DISH for not doing it, because in the end all it would do is open up another can with the customers, and piss off their programming providers. If customers go to Charlie and say "We want to pick our own channels, that's all we want!" Charlie will add a la carte as an option, but then 200 threads will fire off at every DBS website because of the pricing he'll use to both turn a profit, and deal with the networks.

Anyways e-mailing DISH about one channel is kind of pointless, especially when that channel is posting DISH assassination commercials and crawls on its programming right now. Do you really think Charlie will add it back because you say so? Even more importantly when said channel is taking shots at him? Charlie's already won, he's just waiting for CourtTV to realize it.


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## Araxen (Dec 18, 2005)

Nick said:


> There have been over 7500 'views' of this thread -- an impressive number. If only half of you who
> want your Court TV back took the time to email Charlie Ergen, that might make a difference.
> 
> [email protected]


So Charlie will pay overpay for the channel that doesn't deserve the money.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Nick said:


> There have been over 7500 'views' of this thread -- an impressive number. If only half of you who
> want your Court TV back took the time to email Charlie Ergen, that might make a difference.


'Course many of us have viewed many times... I can't recall how many times I have viewed this thread, so the actual number of DBSTalk unique viewers of the thread may be substantially lower in number.


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

Dump any channel that tries to extort with big price increases.

You let one get away with it and they all will be doing it.

Hang in there Charlie.


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## Funny Guy (Jan 7, 2007)

Jim5506 said:


> Dump any channel that tries to extort with big price increases.
> 
> You let one get away with it and they all will be doing it.
> 
> Hang in there Charlie.


Throw that tea into the harbor!

In 8 years with Dish my package price has increased $12 while adding over 50 channels. Charlie knows what he is doing.

CourtTV is owned by a cable network bully.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

Jim5506 said:


> Dump any channel that tries to extort with big price increases.
> 
> You let one get away with it and they all will be doing it.
> 
> Hang in there Charlie.


 Remember that when he drops ESPN the biggest rate increaser there is in the industry. :sure:


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

Funny Guy said:


> Throw that tea into the harbor!
> 
> In 8 years with Dish my package price has increased $12 while adding over 50 channels. Charlie knows what he is doing.
> 
> CourtTV is owned by a cable network bully.


Please name those channels, NOT including shopping channels which pay to be carried, and public interest which are free.


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## juan ellitinez (Jan 31, 2003)

Steve Mehs said:


> Please name those channels, NOT including shopping channels which pay to be carried, and public interest which are free.


 Sirius alone is over 50 channels!!


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## adam1115 (Dec 16, 2003)

Araxen said:


> So Charlie will pay overpay for the channel that doesn't deserve the money.


Right, that's why Dish network is like have the price of DirecTV, right?


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

I'm talking actual channels, audio and video that pay to be carried. Sirius, Shopping and PI account for about 100 channels. 

I would assume he was talking about the current AT120, as AT60 has not gone up $12 and AT180 has not been around 8 years. Like I said in another post, comparing the channel brochure I have from 1998 to the current Dish Network website the following channels were added

Reelz, Telefutura, Oxygen, TV Guide Channel, Univision West, SiTV, SoapNet, Horse Racing TV, NFL Network, IMF, Fuse, Sirius, and about 25 shopping and religious channels. And Romance Classics and IFC were finally split. Not exactly 50 channels.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

Do we really know that Sirius is paying for carriage? I know they have a marketing agreement, but i haven't seen anything that stated that Sirius is paying to be there and would be surprised if that is public information.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Steve Mehs said:


> I'm talking actual channels, audio and video that pay to be carried. Sirius, Shopping and PI account for about 100 channels.


Sounds like a call out for some numbers!

AT60 - now 75 channels, soon 107 (if D* gets to count music so can E*!)
22 PI channels, 12 shopping channels; 41 others.
(Not counting ESPN alts and E*'s internal channels.)
Initial offering (as AT40 in 1996) for $19.95, now $29.99

AT120 - 201 channels (D* counts their XM channels, let's count SIRIUS)
22 PI channels, 12 shopping channels, 32 CD music, 64 SIRIUS; 71 others.
(Not counting RSNs, alts, ESPN alts and E*'s internal channels.)
Was $30.99 in 2001 (as AT100CD) and will be $42.99 in 2007.
Was $28.99 in 1998 (as AT60 and AT100CD).

AT180 - 260 channels
22 PI channels, 12 shopping channels, 115 total music; 111 others.
(Not counting RSNs, alts, ESPN alts and E*'s internal channels.)
Was $40.99 in 2002 (as AT150) and will be $52.99 in 2007.
Initial offering (as AT150) for $39.99.

AEP - 292 channels (includes premium movie packages)
22 PI channels, 12 shopping channels, 115 total music; 143 others.
(Not counting RSNs, alts, ESPN alts and E*'s internal channels.)
Was $72.99 in 2002 and is currently $84.99 (will be $89.99 soon).

(Thanks to TNG Tony for the historical pricing.)


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

http://ekb.dbstalk.com/ratehistory.htm for those interested. 

I will list the "AT" channels added since Aug 1, 2000 later tonight... It will not be official, but it will show what I have in my archives.

See ya
Tony


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

Price for equivilant to America's everything in mid 2000 
--$75.98 by late 2000 or early 2001 AEP was stated up for $69.99 - Price roughly equal to annual subscription to AT150 and MegaMovie Pack.

Price for AEP as of Feb 1, 2007

Channels added and removed since August 2001. Shopping channels listed but not counted. Name changes listed but not counted.

+1 - 8/1/00 Nick GAS
------8/30/00 ZDTV changed to Tech TV
+1 - 9/5/00 Odyssey (now Hallmark Channel)
- 1 - 9/1/00 Discovery People (Discontinued by Discovery)
sss - 9/14/00 Gem Shopping Network
------9/20/00 The Nashville Network changed to The National Network
+ 1 - 10/6/00 LMN (Lifetime Movie Network)
- 1 - 10/10/00 America's Voice removed (channel became informercial channel mostly Gem Shopping Network)
sss - 11/8/00 GRTV added
+ 1 - 11/8/00 Fox Sports World (now Fox Soccer Channel)
+ 1 - 11/15/00 Wisdom (now LIME)
+ 1 - 11/23/00 Style
+ 1 - 12/13/00 HBO Latino
+ 5 - 12/15/00 Public interest channels unnamed but listed as they are removed/changed

(Aug 2000 - Dec 2000-- 11 net channel additions)

+ 1 - 1/10/01 Hawaian Music (Muzak channel)
------ 1/16/01 Romance Classics chaned names to Women's Entertainment (WE) and so begins the long court battle to nullify the "split IFC channel contract and remove WE from the line-up. Rainbow Media sets up a special feed of WE called Romance Classics while this plays out in the courts)
sss - 2/26/01 iShop added
sss - 3/7/01 Unknown shopping channel added (probably iDrive)
------- 3/27/01 Starz BET Movies changed names to Black Starz
sss - 5/1/01 America's Collectibles Network added
------- 5/23/01 Showtime 2 renamed Showtime Too
+ 1 - 5/30/01 GAC (Great American Country)
------- 6/30/01 Value Vision became ShopNBC
------- 6/30/01 Showtime 3 became Showtime Showcase
sss - 7/1/01 "Sale" shopping channel added
+ 1 - VH1 Classics Added (MTV 2 moved to AT50 from AT100)
- 1 - 7/19/01 FamilyStar Learning Network
- 1 - 7/30/01 The Racing Network (ceased operations -- really up to 4 channels originally subscription service then added to AT packages)
------- 8/5/01 Odyssey became Hallmark Channel
------- 8/23/01 Dolby Digital audio added to HBO
------- 8/24/01 Dolby Digital audio added to Starz (starz west on 9/23)
sss - 9/5/01 GRTV removed
sss - 9/5/01 The Men's Channel added
sss - 9/5/01 The Beauty and Fashion Channel added
+1 - 10/25/01 University of Washington TV
-1 - 10/25/01 The Early Childhood Network (TECN)
------- 11/10/01 Fox Family became ABC Family
+3 - 12/13/01 Colours, StarNet, SafetyNet

(2001 - 3 net video and 1 audio channel additions)

- 1 - 1/1/02 ESPN Classic (Spat over ABC Family -- ABC family was not removed due to court injunction from ABC)
+1 - 1/22/02 (really ½+½) WE and IFC split from a shared channel to two 24/7 channels. The special Romance Classics named feed goes away.
+1 - 1/22/02 Much Music (now Fuse)
------ 1/22/02 Speedvision (renamed Speed Channel 2/13/02) moved from AT 150 to AT 100)
------ 3/1/02 Dish Home
------ 3/2/02 HBO Plus returnd to its original Name HBO 2
------ 4/6/02 Discovery Science became The Science Channel
+ 1 - 4/17/02 ESPN Classic (ABC Family court case settled early April)
- 1 - 5/15/02 CNN SI (Ceased operations)
+ 1 - 7/12/02 National Geographic Channel
+ 2 - 12/20/02 Daystar, FamilyNet (And Sky Angel files a law suit shortly after)

(2002 - 4 Net Channel additions)

+ 1 - 1/2/03 CNBC World
+ 1 - 1/2/03 NBA TV (Everything Pack ONLY)
+ 2 - 1/29/03 ActionMax, 5 Star Max
- 1 - 3/17/03 CCN (CCCSat) Ceased Operations
------- 3/25/03 Discovery Civilization renamed Discovery Times
+ 1 - 4/30/03 Health TV
------- 5/19/03 Much Music renamed Fuse
+ 1 - 5/28/03 Univision West
+ 1 - 5/28/03 Telefutura East *OR* Telefutura West (only one per customer)
+ 1 - 6/11/03 Gol TV (English when available added later)
------- 8/12/03 The National Network (TNN) renamed SpikeTV
- 1 - 9/27/03 SafetyNet
+ 1 - 12/10/03 Reality TV (no, not Fox Reality Channel)
- 1 - 12/14/03 StarNet

(2003 - 6 net channel additions)

+ 1 - 1/21/04 Classic Arts Showcase
+ 1 - 2/25/04 Si TV
- 4 - 3/9/04 VH1 Classic, MTV 2, Nick GAS, Noggin/The N (and a billion other CBS/UPN affiliates owned by Viacom)
+ 4 - 3/11/04 The above stations returned
+1 - 4/14/04 Nicktoons (amazing how this channel just came on with no outside pressure
+61 - 5/18/04 Sirius Music Service (65 stereo music channels)
+ 1 - 6/16/04 TV Guide Channel (the result of a law suit settlement dealing with the EPG)
+ 4 - 7/7/04 Sirius Music Service (4 more channels added total 65)
+ 1 - 4/14/04 HRTV (Horse Racing TV)
- 1 - 9/15/04 Health TV
+ 2 - 9/29/04 China Central TV (English) + (Spanish/French)
- 1 - 10/21/04 Daystar
+ 1 - 10/23/04 Mun² (Mundos) moved added to AT package with format change, mostly English programming...had been on DL package when mostly spanish programming
- 1 - 12/15/04 CNN/FN (Ceased operations) CNN International was used as filler on this channel by CNN

(2004 - 5 Net Video & 65 Audio channel additions)

+ 1 - 1/12/05 Pentagon Channel
------- 2/15/05 TechTV changed names to G4TechTV in '04 finally changed to G4
------- 3/30/05 All the Starz & Encore channels changed names to some degree to present names.
+ 1 - 4/15/05 International Music Feed (IMF)
+ 1 - 9/2/05 NFL Network
+ 1 - 9/7/05 College Sports TV
+ 1 - 9/22/05 ESPN-U
- 1 - 10/5/05 Reality TV (no, not Fox Reality Channel) (Ceased operations in U.S.)
------- 10/12/05 SoapNet moved from AT 180 to AT 120
- 1 - 10/20/05 Outdoor Life Network (part of the Hockey spat)
+ 1 - 11/16/05 Fox Reality Channel

(2005 - 4 Net channel additions)

- 2 - 1/1/06 Lifetime & Lifetime Movie Network (Part of a spat over Lifetime Real Women)
+ 1 - 1/12/06 Fine Living
+ 1 - 1/16/06 Oxygen (suposedly taking LMN's spot on AT120)
- 1 - 1/25/06 PBS You (Ceased operations - 1/31/06)
+ 1 - 1/25/06 The Documentary Channel
+ 2 - 1/31/06 Lifetime & LMN (They threw in the towel...LMN moved to AT180 from AT 120)
+ 1 - 4/24/06 OLN (formerly Outdoor Life Network and eventually to be called Versus)
+ 1 - 5/18/06 Daystar
+ 1 - 6/9/06 Starz HD (yes this is part of AEP but you have to have the equipment)
+ 1 - 6/9/06 NFL HD (yes this is part of AEP but you have to have the equipment)
+ 1 - 6/9/06 Slueth
+ 1 - 9/7/06 KBS World (became PI channel available to all AT subs at all 4 locations)
------- 9/25/06 OLN renamed Versus
+ 1 - 9/28/06 Reelz Channel
- 1 - 12/27/06 Holistic Television Network

(2006 - 8 Net channel additions)

- 1 Court TV

(2007 so far - 1 net channel removal)

That adds up to 40 net video channel additions and 66 audio channel additions for AEP subscribers since August 2000. AT150 was introduced in May 2000 and there were a several additions over the summer like HBO Comedy and Fox Movies but I do not have it documented.

See ya
Tony


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Good list.
Somewhere (probably in the last SIRIUS shakeup) SIRIUS became 64 channels instead of 65.

CourtTV is currently one of the six good channels (non-PI/Shopping) that DirecTV has and Dish Network doesn't (also Fuel, Bet J, Lifetime Real Women, Logo, PBS Kids Sprout).

The cost? E* is only raising it's prices $5 on their top package (AEP) and $3 on their next two tiers (AT120 and AT180) while D* is apparently raising their prices $5 on all tiers.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

James you keep forgetting the $5.00 increase for Hd plat. subs , soon to be just AEP + hd pack. That is a $10.00 increase for AEP subs with hd pack. THat is more than Directv subs. I guess Dish felt it was better to put the biggest increase on their high subs rather than spread it out over all their programming packs like Directv did.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

Duplicate post


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Mike D-CO5 said:


> Duplicate post


Ok, that made me laugh... You retracted a duplicate post, yet I have seen the same "duplicate" post in a bunch of threads all over the forum...


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Mike D-CO5 said:


> James you keep forgetting the $5.00 increase for Hd plat. subs , soon to be just AEP + hd pack.


How can anyone forget with you practically spamming the forum with it. 


Mike D-CO5 said:


> THat is more than Directv subs.


And yet DirecTV TCPremier+HD is at $109.99 before their 2007 price increase.


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

I think because everyone who is NOT affected by it is glad they aren't and due to "class envy" like the fact that the "big spenders" no longer get an incentive to get the big package!

But anyway, people have to remember that the reason the HD Platinum pack was $99.99 and not $104.99 was not because they wanted to give the discount, but because they wanted to stay under the magic $100 mark

Though everyone denies it, more people are likely to buy something for $99.99 than they are for $100. This has been proven in marketing studies over and over and over again. No matter how logical people are, most say something marked at $99.99 costs $99 dollars. The psychological difference between $99 and $100 is astronomical.

So... once you break the $100 barrier, it really doesn't matter if it's $105 or $109.99. Most consumers (who don't have to see the price increase from $99) will not care too much between the two.

So, thogh I do feel for Mike and this kind of price increase makes me thing a fifth and sixth time about getting the everything+hd pack, marketing wise, it makes sense.

See ya
Tony


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

James Long said:


> Good list.
> Somewhere (probably in the last SIRIUS shakeup) SIRIUS became 64 channels instead of 65.


As of this moment there are 65 Sirius channels on Dish.

See ya
Tony


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

TNGTony said:


> As of this moment there are 65 Sirius channels on Dish.


One of them must be missing from my EPG - unless you are counting the CH 156/919 SIRIUS Music Information promotional channel.


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## Funny Guy (Jan 7, 2007)

James Long said:


> AT180 - 260 channels
> 22 PI channels, 12 shopping channels, 115 total music; 111 others.
> (Not counting RSNs, alts, ESPN alts and E*'s internal channels.)
> Was $40.99 in 2002 (as AT150) and will be $52.99 in 2007.
> ...


AT150-AT180-AT250 and with the new proposed increase will be a $13 increase with over 100 channels added in 6 years. I knew it was something like that. Thanks all who provided the data and a trip down memory lane.



Steve Mehs said:


> Please name those channels, NOT including shopping channels which pay to be carried, and public interest which are free.
> __________________
> Satellite Radio Supporter
> XM Subscriber as of 8/03, Sirius Subscriber as of 10/04, Music Choice via Time Warner Cable


Someone with the TWC in their signature nit picking my facts. That doesn't surprise me.

Time Warner Cable/Turner Broadcasting/CourtTV are all one big happy family.:nono2:

I love when one big company tries to bully a smaller company and make a buck no matter what it does. All I wanted was to hear CourtTV's side and instead they try to shove there parent company services down my throat or a company they must have great financial interest in.

I think Charlie could take Philip!:eek2:


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

If you want to say Dish added over 100 channels and all that, fine whatever. They did, but I don't count shopping, PI and Sirius, as 'real' channel additions. Take away them, and you have a lot less. If you want to count them, be my guest, I count actual audio/video channels, that pay to be carried, not just take up space. In your first post I thought you were talking about AT100 not AT150, yes AT150 has seen many real channel additions over the past few years, not close to 100, but enough. 

And yes, I am a TWC supporter, I had no idea that Court TV was part of TWX family until this thread, but I couldn't care less. I like the cable division of TWX, I don't watch CNN, don't use anything AOL related, etc. The fact TWX now owns Court TV is irrelevant, I just hope it negatively impacts Dish, not because I like TWC, but because of my personal thoughts on Chuckie.


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

I watch Pentagon Channel, Documentary Channel, RFD TV and Classic Arts Showcase at least once a week. I watch CAS EVERY day (or at least have it on as I do something around the house) for at least a few minutes a day EVERY day. Are you saying these channels I watch every week aren't real channels because they happen to fit into the federally mandated PI catagory, and channels like Court TV, Bloomberg, Fine Living, DIY and Nick Toons which I NEVER EVER watch are real channels? I certainly don't see it that way! I jumped for joy when CAS was added. I was very excited to see the Documentary Channel.

I no longer listen to Sirius channels because of the annoying stream jockeys (and will never subscribe to the service for the same reason) but for about a 6 month period, whenever I wasn't watching TV the Standard Time channel was on in my house. So I counted that channel as a favorite!

Some of the channels you call shopping channels (which I didn't count) really have quite a bit of entertainment. The Water Channel, The Men's Channel (now Men's Outdoor Recreation) have real honest to goodness programming for 15 or more hours a day which is more than one can say for PAX/"i" (channel 181). I know "no one" watches these shopping channels because "no one" spends about $11 Billion a year on these channels' products annually.

So your definition of a "real" channel is WAY too narrow for me.

See ya
Tony


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

James Long said:


> One of them must be missing from my EPG - unless you are counting the CH 156/919 SIRIUS Music Information promotional channel.


You are correct... 64. I counted "The Who" channel and "The Bridge" as two channels. It's only one channel with special programming now.

Tony


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

TNGTony said:


> But anyway, people have to remember that the reason the HD Platinum pack was $99.99 and not $104.99 was not because they wanted to give the discount, but because they wanted to stay under the magic $100 mark
> 
> Though everyone denies it, more people are likely to buy something for $99.99 than they are for $100. This has been proven in marketing studies over and over and over again. No matter how logical people are, most say something marked at $99.99 costs $99 dollars. The psychological difference between $99 and $100 is astronomical.


That's interesting, and I have heard that before... but I have always been the opposite, psychologically.

When I see $99.99 as a price, I see 4 big nines! When I see $100.00, I see a lot of zeroes and a one... so while they are only a penny apart and I can do the math to verify that  Psychologically, my initial reaction to a $99.99 price tag is that it costs too much... but when I see $100, it "seems" like less to me at first glance.

I guess I'm the exception that proves the rule.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

It is more common to see it as over $100 and under $100 - although once one adds in the "taxes, etc" the shock of it being over $100 really sets in. It is a good advertising price point --- which is why there is no DishHD Platinum for $109.99 on the new price list (even though that is the effective price). Still pushing a below $100 pricetag.

When I buy a $9.99 CD/DVD and end up paying $15 to get it online the shock sets in too.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

That reminds me of all the fast food commercials that brag about getting "change back from a dollar" when you buy from their 99-cent menu... Unless you live somewhere that doesn't tax fast-food, there's no way you get any change back from that purchase with only a dollar!


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

You know... as an aside... Perhaps CourtTV can provide coverage of the negotiations between them and Dish for carriage of the channel?

That would be like turning the camera towards the mirror and getting the infinite regression image... CourtTV could cover the trial about how they are not on Dish!


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

They could always cover the issue on CNN where E* subs might actually see it.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

TNGTony said:


> I think because everyone who is NOT affected by it is glad they aren't and due to "class envy" like the fact that the "big spenders" no longer get an incentive to get the big package!
> 
> But anyway, people have to remember that the reason the HD Platinum pack was $99.99 and not $104.99 was not because they wanted to give the discount, but because they wanted to stay under the magic $100 mark
> 
> ...


 Thankyou Tony for being understanding and offering a good rational defense for my posts. As James loves to point out endless times, I have posted about the $10.00 increase as I felt outraged about it. I expected better from Dish and the extra fees charged when you try to down grade like the dvr fees PER RECEIVER and the hd enabeling fees if you don't want the hd pack PER RECEIVER make Dish a bad deal right now. They reeled us in with the good pricing last year with the AEP + hd + locals for 104.99 . A very good deal. NOw they have jerked the discount and hiked the price . I feel like the rug was jerked out from under me by Dish in this price increase. But as James has tried to wave his DISH pom -poms endless times when I find any fault with their practices I will stop posting about it .

Thanks again.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Mike D-CO5 said:


> ... I will stop posting about it .


Apparently not. 

I do wish we could keep this thread about CourtTV instead of duplicating posts from the price increase thread but I suppose the discussions cross over and I've been as guilty as any for continuing pricing issues here.


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## CoriBright (May 30, 2002)

James Long said:


> Apparently not.
> 
> I do wish we could keep this thread about CourtTV instead of duplicating posts from the price increase thread but I suppose the discussions cross over and I've been as guilty as any for continuing pricing issues here.


Thank you James. I STILL want my CourtTV back.


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

Here is some fodder to keep this on topic...

RUMOR ALERT: Court TV will be replaced by A&E Crime & Investigation Network if Court TV does not settle by the end of the month. CI is a new network to the US but it has been around in England and Australia for a while. This is an unsubstanciated rumor but it would explain Charlie's statement yesterday about the dealings with Court TV/Turner. Remember this is how Oxygen ended up on AT120 and LMN was bumped up to AT180!

See ya
Tony


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## FTA Michael (Jul 21, 2002)

That fits perfectly with what Charlie said Monday. He obviously had a replacement in mind, he mentioned how Oxygen joined, and said he wouldn't make a move like that until after the end of January.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

C&I would be a good addition.


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## marketinghelp (Sep 9, 2006)

Dish better get Court TV back or I am switching.


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## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

marketinghelp said:


> Dish better get Court TV back or I am switching.


:wave:


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## marketinghelp (Sep 9, 2006)

tampa8 said:


> :wave:


No man, isn't there hope that they will get Court TV back? If enough people stand up for this they will have no choice right?


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

Steve Mehs said:


> If you want to say Dish added over 100 channels and all that, fine whatever. They did, but I don't count shopping, PI and Sirius, as 'real' channel additions. Take away them, and you have a lot less. If you want to count them, be my guest, I count actual audio/video channels, that pay to be carried, not just take up space. In your first post I thought you were talking about AT100 not AT150, yes AT150 has seen many real channel additions over the past few years, not close to 100, but enough.
> 
> And yes, I am a TWC supporter, I had no idea that Court TV was part of TWX family until this thread, but I couldn't care less. I like the cable division of TWX, I don't watch CNN, don't use anything AOL related, etc. The fact TWX now owns Court TV is irrelevant, I just hope it negatively impacts Dish, not because I like TWC, but because of my personal thoughts on Chuckie.


Why are you a TWC big man?


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## Slamminc11 (Jan 28, 2005)

marketinghelp said:


> No man, isn't there hope that they will get Court TV back? If enough people stand up for this they will have no choice right?


Which is fine if it were a channel people actually cared about. I have had Dish for over five years and in that time have probably watched it 25-30 seconds, just long enough to scroll by when things are boring!


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

I can say that since the OJ trial I have watched nothing but COPS on Court TV. Cops is available on 234,324 other channels 4,453 times a week. 

I do not miss this channel one bit. Had John H not caught the change, I would still not know about it. I am sorry for those that watch this channel. But I believe this channel is on all the cable systems because of the bundling deals that Turner/Viacomm/whatever does with the channel. Basically its on every cable system, not because people demand it, but the distributor does. 

See ya
Tony


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

When CourtTV claims to be a top 20 channel, is it by distribution (# homes) or ratings (# viewers)?


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

TNGTony said:


> Here is some fodder to keep this on topic...
> 
> RUMOR ALERT: Court TV will be replaced by A&E Crime & Investigation Network if Court TV does not settle by the end of the month. CI is a new network to the US but it has been around in England and Australia for a while. This is an unsubstanciated rumor but it would explain Charlie's statement yesterday about the dealings with Court TV/Turner. Remember this is how Oxygen ended up on AT120 and LMN was bumped up to AT180!
> 
> ...


Yes I remember it well that was when I left DISH.While I still believe Charlie means
well the question remains.How many times can you do this until the the provider who owns more than 1 channel says"If you don't want one,you can't have the others!.:eek2:


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Then you file "program access" complaints with the FCC. E* has filed two that we have noticed recently, one on inHD (which apparently didn't help get the channel on E*) and the other is still pending regarding Cinemax.

There has to be a line drawn somewhere about how the programmers dictate what channels a distributor must carry. It is probably a bigger reason for a la carte legislation than as a customer offering ... to let E* and other distributors pick the BEST channels to put on their systems instead of need to carry a distributor's channels in a package. (But that is a thread that hasn't started yet.)


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## juan ellitinez (Jan 31, 2003)

Paul Secic said:


> Why are you a TWC big man?


 I think it all started with a dvr fee


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## cable_killer (Feb 5, 2006)

Steve Mehs said:


> Arn't providers supposed to give 30 days notice for potential dropped channels?


have you not read your service agreement.... Programs and prices subject to change without notice!!! This goes with any provider!!!:lol:

I have spoken for the MILLIONS and MILLIONS of cable haters in the world


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## BaldEagle (Jun 19, 2006)

Just saw an ad on Dish about Court TV. They said to get Court TV call....(800 number)?


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

BaldEagle said:


> Just saw an ad on Dish about Court TV. They said to get Court TV call....(800 number)?


You probably saw that on CNN or another Turner channel. I bet Charlie isn't accepting ads for them. :lol:


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Yep. Turner channels have been airing ads since day 1 ... interesting that they had them produced and in the can ready to run January 1st.

There are a couple copies on YouTube.com ... start at the top of this thread and you'll see where the ads were mentioned and one of the YouTubes was linked.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Yep... they started running those shortly after midnight Dec 31st/Jan1st... I was watching a Law & Order marathon on TNTHD that night, and wondered what the heck was the deal when those commercials started running that night.

To have it ready to go that quickly, means they must have seen it coming for a few days I would imagine.

All things considered... I wonder what's the deal with so many of the carriage contracts ending at the end of a calendar year. Folks on both sides were no doubt away for holiday vacations so I fail to see how any meaningful negotiations would actually happen past around mid-December... it just seems like a recipe for problems to time-out contracts at the end of a calendar year even if folks are getting along on both sides.


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

James Long said:


> Yep. Turner channels have been airing ads since day 1 ... interesting that they had them produced and in the can ready to run January 1st.
> 
> There are a couple copies on YouTube.com ... start at the top of this thread and you'll see where the ads were mentioned and one of the YouTubes was linked.


I guess you could say they know Charlie and the way he thinks.It's not like this is the first time or the last.


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## epitome (Jan 13, 2007)

BaldEagle said:


> Just saw an ad on Dish about Court TV. They said to get Court TV call....(800 number)?


I saw that too...did anyone catch what the whole number is? It appeared on HNN


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## Ken Green (Oct 6, 2005)

That 800 # takes you to a recorded message that says Court TV is no longer available on DishNetwork....press 1 to connect to DirecTV, or press 2 to connect to your local cable operator.
I'm guessing it's not a DISH spot!


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## Nick79 (Sep 5, 2006)

IMO, It really doesn't matter whether Court TV reappears or disappears forever. If it comes back, good. If another channel, C&I or whatever, I'll watch it to see what's up and might even watch every now and then. I'll just sit back and look at the Biography Channel till this spat is resolved.


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## BaldEagle (Jun 19, 2006)

epitome said:


> I saw that too...did anyone catch what the whole number is? It appeared on HNN


Not me. Have been checking here to see if someone posted the #.


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

BaldEagle said:


> Just saw an ad on Dish about Court TV. They said to get Court TV call....(800 number)?


Judge Judy will be on that line yapping at ya.


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## Cocoatreat (May 16, 2006)

I loved TechTV. I am a big computer buff, so I enjoyed watching Leo Laporte and Patrick Norton on "The Screen Savers," and Laporte and all on "Call for Help." They had good, one of a kind programs that you don't see anywhere else. Then, G4 swallowed the channel. Out goes the computer related stuff and in comes mostly video game programming. I play one video game on a regular basis, and it is from 1997 and runs under MS-DOS, so I am out of their target audience. Since the switch, I have tuned in to the channel maybe 4 or 5 times. Speaking for myself only, I couldn't care less if it goes away.[/QUOTE]

i totally agree......TechTv rocked! how i miss call for help......& other shows about computers.........g4 can go away forever & it wont be missed at all by me........ they totally changed the format and i am NOT a gamer......could care less about any of the content......& now they are playing reruns of "cheaters" just to get people to watch! lol

now courtv.......i sorely miss........ i LOVE the forensic files & dale hineman...... i wasnt into the live cases........but after 6p.......that was the channel to watch when nothing was on the locals.... now "cops" really does get old....they would do better by showing old reruns of "americas most wanted" .....

i have been with dish since '87.....when i had the 12 foot dish..........it was echostar then.....& boy have things changed...... i looked at directv & for me there was no other choice.........cuz i really am not into sports...... i just wish that there were not so many problems.......just give me a good product at a good price..... i havent gone to hd yet as.........i just dont think its worth it yet.....& when i do upgrade......they now charge $5 fee just becuz u dont use the outlet........that sux becuz many people just use cells (as myself) times are just too hard now to sometimes keep both ........ plz give us back courtv.........& yes i do watch lifetime


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## BaldEagle (Jun 19, 2006)

epitome said:


> I saw that too...did anyone catch what the whole number is? It appeared on HNN


The number to call to complain about CourtTV being dropped is 1-800-710-1922.


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## CoriBright (May 30, 2002)

I still want it back... and it's nearly the end of the month.


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## marketinghelp (Sep 9, 2006)

Dish BETTER put Court TV back on. I don't give a crap who's fault it is, what I do know is that my cable company and Direct TV can air Court TV so I EXPECT Dish to do the same.


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## Slamminc11 (Jan 28, 2005)

marketinghelp said:


> Dish BETTER put Court TV back on. I don't give a crap who's fault it is, what I do know is that my cable company and Direct TV can air Court TV so I EXPECT Dish to do the same.


You EXPECT!?! Well, I hate to disappoint you, but unless you own a majority of the voting shares in Echo stock and are willing to pay whatever the programmer wants, then you can expect all you want, but no one is going to listen to you specifically!
Your "demands" make me laugh, haha!


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Other cable/satellite carries Logo, Lifetime Real Women, HD RSNs and CurrentTV.
Just because someone else is doing it doesn't mean that E* will. 

I know a DBS carrier that doesn't carry Nick GAS, The Tennis Channel, HBO Comedy, HBO Latino, Action Max, 5 Star Max, Showtime Beyond, The Movie Channel Xtra, Starz! Cinema and Starz! Kids and Family, among other channels - FoodHD, NGHD, HGHD, Starz! HD to name a few. I expect there will always be channels one carrier is missing.


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## marketinghelp (Sep 9, 2006)

James Long said:


> Other cable/satellite carries Logo, Lifetime Real Women, HD RSNs and CurrentTV.
> Just because someone else is doing it doesn't mean that E* will.
> 
> I know a DBS carrier that doesn't carry Nick GAS, The Tennis Channel, HBO Comedy, HBO Latino, Action Max, 5 Star Max, Showtime Beyond, The Movie Channel Xtra, Starz! Cinema and Starz! Kids and Family, among other channels - FoodHD, NGHD, HGHD, Starz! HD to name a few. I expect there will always be channels one carrier is missing.


Everybody else is doing it. If Dish does not do it they lose my money, plain and simple.


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## Slamminc11 (Jan 28, 2005)

marketinghelp said:


> Everybody else is doing it. If Dish does not do it they lose my money, plain and simple.


Do we really need to take a look at how many quarters Dish has pulled a profit compared to Direct? I wonder who has more profitable quarters over the last 10 years, hmmm. The answer to this one might be a tough one for you to swallow!


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

Actually, if you are going to compare profits you have to compare from the launch of each service's first satellite. Dish got to a profit faster even though they launched nearly two years later. Dish has maintained their profits and had more profitable quarters, even though they launched nearly two years later. I would say that Dish is doing something right that DirecTv is doing wrong. Dish made their first annual profit in 2003 and in 2005 had a profit of $3.22 per share. http://library.corporate-ir.net/library/68/688/68854/items/191216/EchoStar_2005_Annual_Report.pdf
DirecTv had their first full year profit of $0.25 per share in 2005. http://library.corporate-ir.net/library/12/127/127160/items/195067/DirecTV2005AR.pdf
So, it took Dish 7 years after the launch of Echostar 1 to make their first profit of $0.49 per share and it took Directv 11 years from the launch of their first satellite to make a profit of $0.25 per share. It looks to me that Dish is doing something right that Directv is doing wrong. *Part *of this may be in the negotiation of channel costs.


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## BaldEagle (Jun 19, 2006)

kdg454 said:


> That 800 # takes you to a recorded message that says Court TV is no longer available on DishNetwork....press 1 to connect to DirecTV, or press 2 to connect to your local cable operator.
> I'm guessing it's not a DISH spot!


Pretty sneaky. I thought after hearing the ad that it was by Dish and calling the number would help them.

Silly me, that was an ad by CourtTV (Turner) trying to get customers to switch from Dish to get CourtTV.

Does not appear that CourtTV is negotiating in good faith with Dish.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

Richard King said:


> Actually, if you are going to compare profits you have to compare from the launch of each service's first satellite. Dish got to a profit faster even though they launched nearly two years later. Dish has maintained their profits and had more profitable quarters, even though they launched nearly two years later. I would say that Dish is doing something right that DirecTv is doing wrong. Dish made their first annual profit in 2003 and in 2005 had a profit of $3.22 per share. http://library.corporate-ir.net/library/68/688/68854/items/191216/EchoStar_2005_Annual_Report.pdf
> DirecTv had their first full year profit of $0.25 per share in 2005. http://library.corporate-ir.net/library/12/127/127160/items/195067/DirecTV2005AR.pdf
> So, it took Dish 7 years after the launch of Echostar 1 to make their first profit of $0.49 per share and it took Directv 11 years from the launch of their first satellite to make a profit of $0.25 per share. It looks to me that Dish is doing something right that Directv is doing wrong. *Part *of this may be in the negotiation of channel costs.


 DISH is also not paying out the Ass for the NFL sunday Ticket and soon the Major baseball league games in HD either. These sports channels really cut into the profits when you have to lock up years at a time in contracts. I can only imagine how much Directv paid to get the NFL ticket through, what is it 2010 now? That is another big reason why DISH has made profit sooner and kept making profit.


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## Slamminc11 (Jan 28, 2005)

Richard King said:


> Actually, if you are going to compare profits you have to compare from the launch of each service's first satellite. Dish got to a profit faster even though they launched nearly two years later. Dish has maintained their profits and had more profitable quarters, even though they launched nearly two years later. I would say that Dish is doing something right that DirecTv is doing wrong. Dish made their first annual profit in 2003 and in 2005 had a profit of $3.22 per share. http://library.corporate-ir.net/library/68/688/68854/items/191216/EchoStar_2005_Annual_Report.pdf
> DirecTv had their first full year profit of $0.25 per share in 2005. http://library.corporate-ir.net/library/12/127/127160/items/195067/DirecTV2005AR.pdf
> So, it took Dish 7 years after the launch of Echostar 1 to make their first profit of $0.49 per share and it took Directv 11 years from the launch of their first satellite to make a profit of $0.25 per share. It looks to me that Dish is doing something right that Directv is doing wrong. *Part *of this may be in the negotiation of channel costs.


Well, it still probably won't convence marketinghelp, but thanks for helping prove my point!


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## cornflakes (Sep 30, 2005)

Can this be used as a legit reason to break out of your contract with Dish? I'm not planning on it (loving Dish so far), but I'm curious if people have said to them they want to break their 18-month contract because when they signed the contract, they had the channel, and because they're avid fans of the channel, they want to cancel the contract because the channel is no longer available?


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## Slamminc11 (Jan 28, 2005)

cornflakes said:


> Can this be used as a legit reason to break out of your contract with Dish? I'm not planning on it (loving Dish so far), but I'm curious if people have said to them they want to break their 18-month contract because when they signed the contract, they had the channel, and because they're avid fans of the channel, they want to cancel the contract because the channel is no longer available?


Short answer is NO! Long answer is an ever bigger NOOOOO!


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Mike D-CO5 said:


> DISH is also not paying out the Ass for the NFL sunday Ticket and soon the Major baseball league games in HD either. These sports channels really cut into the profits when you have to lock up years at a time in contracts. I can only imagine how much Directv paid to get the NFL ticket through, what is it 2010 now? That is another big reason why DISH has made profit sooner and kept making profit.


I agree.

These are also business decisions made by the companies. DirecTV prefered getting exclusives over making a profit ... so they spent the money on the NFL. It appears that they may be making enough now that they are willing to give up their profit for expanded MLB coverage. It is a shame (for them) that they can't have both. I can't imaging their decision makers sitting in a room choosing not to make a profit --- I think that they expect the exclusives will pay off --- but those payoffs are just not instant.

I do wish that E* could win a few more battles. It is nice to see them making money. It makes it easier for them to invest in new satellites, encoders and receviers and the eventual receiver swap for MPEG4. But the occasional channel loss and slowness in adding HD make me wonder if they could afford to make a little less profit and get the channels going.


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

Richard King said:


> Actually, if you are going to compare profits you have to compare from the launch of each service's first satellite. Dish got to a profit faster even though they launched nearly two years later. Dish has maintained their profits and had more profitable quarters, even though they launched nearly two years later. I would say that Dish is doing something right that DirecTv is doing wrong. Dish made their first annual profit in 2003 and in 2005 had a profit of $3.22 per share. http://library.corporate-ir.net/library/68/688/68854/items/191216/EchoStar_2005_Annual_Report.pdf
> DirecTv had their first full year profit of $0.25 per share in 2005. http://library.corporate-ir.net/library/12/127/127160/items/195067/DirecTV2005AR.pdf
> So, it took Dish 7 years after the launch of Echostar 1 to make their first profit of $0.49 per share and it took Directv 11 years from the launch of their first satellite to make a profit of $0.25 per share. It looks to me that Dish is doing something right that Directv is doing wrong. *Part *of this may be in the negotiation of channel costs.


You think just maybe it might be because DISH charges double to start?.How about a DVR fee for each DVR?.Or the one I like the channel disappears but they
still charge the same price?.That's a nice profit maker there.Yes you are right DISH
makes a PROFIT!.But when you can't watch the channels you pay for,who gives a
rat's a$$.?!!:soapbox:


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

Let's see if their bottom-line price is lower, how do they charge double...HMMM?


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

Jim5506 said:


> Let's see if their bottom-line price is lower, how do they charge double...HMMM?


Well when you sign up they charge you for 2 months service(they did me) then on the first part of the second month they charge you for 1 month's service....HMMMM!.:eek2:

The funny part of this is when I signed up for DirecTV they charged me 1 month's service,next month 1 month's service.See a profit margin developing?.

And if anyone want's to know why a DirecTV subscriber is posting about about DISH I'll tell you.When I had DISH I advised my Grandparents(No computer) to go with DISH.........WRONG!.You just don't want to get 2 old people(they love CourTV)
Pissed at you.!!!!:eek2:


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

LOL! Dish charges one month ahead! IOW if you don't pay, they cut you off at the point you paid. A dead-beat subscriber would owe them nothing and Dish would not be out any cash due to the deadbeat. This does not mean they charge you double! Just like when you rent an apartment you pay 1st and last months rent up front.

Now I will say that if one just decides to stop subscribing to Dish they should WAIT UNTIL THEIR ACCOUNT IS CAUGHT UP because you will never be refunded the balance of the "last month's rent". However the credit remains on your account. And, since it is on YOUR account it is not on their books as profit.

See ya
Tony


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

Jhon69 said:


> Well when you sign up they charge you for 2 months service(they did me) then on the first part of the second month they charge you for 1 month's service....HMMMM!.:eek2: ...


Oh nonsense. Dish, as with the phone company, as with my trash collection service, and some other services, collects for service in advance. The second bill you received toward the middle of the second month was not due upon receipt and was for the advance service to be provided in the third month. Instead of making up stuff, why not hang out in a D* and post about how happy you are. lol


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

Cocoatreat said:


> I loved TechTV. I am a big computer buff, so I enjoyed watching Leo Laporte and Patrick Norton on "The Screen Savers," and Laporte and all on "Call for Help." They had good, one of a kind programs that you don't see anywhere else. Then, G4 swallowed the channel. Out goes the computer related stuff and in comes mostly video game programming. I play one video game on a regular basis, and it is from 1997 and runs under MS-DOS, so I am out of their target audience. Since the switch, I have tuned in to the channel maybe 4 or 5 times. Speaking for myself only, I couldn't care less if it goes away.


i totally agree......TechTv rocked! how i miss call for help......& other shows about computers.........g4 can go away forever & it wont be missed at all by me........ they totally changed the format and i am NOT a gamer......could care less about any of the content......& now they are playing reruns of "cheaters" just to get people to watch! lol

now courtv.......i sorely miss........ i LOVE the forensic files & dale hineman...... i wasnt into the live cases........but after 6p.......that was the channel to watch when nothing was on the locals.... now "cops" really does get old....they would do better by showing old reruns of "americas most wanted" .....

i have been with dish since '87.....when i had the 12 foot dish..........it was echostar then.....& boy have things changed...... i looked at directv & for me there was no other choice.........cuz i really am not into sports...... i just wish that there were not so many problems.......just give me a good product at a good price..... i havent gone to hd yet as.........i just dont think its worth it yet.....& when i do upgrade......they now charge $5 fee just becuz u dont use the outlet........that sux becuz many people just use cells (as myself) times are just too hard now to sometimes keep both ........ plz give us back courtv.........& yes i do watch lifetime[/QUOTE]
Speaking of Leo LaPorte, his weekend radio show is being syndicated by Premeire.


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

SaltiDawg said:


> Oh nonsense. Dish, as with the phone company, as with my trash collection service, and some other services, collects for service in advance. The second bill you received toward the middle of the second month was not due upon receipt and was for the advance service to be provided in the third month. Instead of making up stuff, why not hang out in a D* and post about how happy you are. lol


Nope got another bill the first part of the third month.So I guess that shoots down
that theory.

Making up stuff?.This is the actual facts of my service with DISH from Jan.2002 to
Mar.2006.

other services,collects for service in advance.Well yes I do know that but isn't it amazing that DirecTV doesn't?.Well I guess with all their money they don't need to.

I am very happy with DirecTV.But I have 2 people upset with DISH as I posted before so they asked me to be their voice so I did.


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

I usually don't do this, but I have to ask... are you a moron or a troll? See a troll would keep pushing until they got a response sort of like this one, but since I am not angry it didn't quite reach its mark.

A moron would be too stupid to figure out that the first bill is for the first two months. The second bill would be for the third month. The third bill would be for the fourth (not forth) month and so on. Each bill would be 1 month ahead of the service just like most phone companies, cable companies, utilities and even taxes (withholding--you did know that a tax refund was a refund of what you OVERPAID the feds over the previous year, right?). A moron would think that they got charged double for the first month.

So if you are happy with DirecTV, why don't you stay over on the DirecTV forums and post how happy you are and stay out of the forums where you only incite, while at the same time calling or somehow contacting Dish directly on behalf of the two people you are representing or finding a way to switch them over to your preferred service.

---That is unless you are just a troll looking to get this sort of response, only with anger instead of curious wonderment at how shallow the gene pool can get.

Have a lovely day.

See ya
Tony


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

Jhon69 said:


> Nope got another bill the first part of the third month.So I guess that shoots down
> that theory.
> 
> Making up stuff?.This is the actual facts of my service with DISH from Jan.2002 to
> Mar.2006. ...


Again, that's nonsense. As you may know, your bill contains in bold letters *FROM TO CURRENT CHARGES*. Under *FROM TO* Dish lists the Inclusive dates. You of course as spokesperson for your disgruntled parents, who are incapable of posting here, are sophisticated enough to not pay twice for the same month's service. Oh wait, I take that back.


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

TNGTony said:


> I usually don't do this, but I have to ask... are you a moron or a troll? See a troll would keep pushing until they got a response sort of like this one, but since I am not angry it didn't quite reach its mark.
> ...


Tony,

Ya nailed it!!!!


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## Slamminc11 (Jan 28, 2005)

TNGTony said:


> I usually don't do this, but I have to ask... are you a *moron or a troll?* See a *troll* would keep pushing until they got a response sort of like this one, but since I am not angry it didn't quite reach its mark.
> 
> *A moron *would be too stupid to figure out that the first bill is for the first two months. The second bill would be for the third month. The third bill would be for the fourth (not forth) month and so on. Each bill would be 1 month ahead of the service just like most phone companies, cable companies, utilities and even taxes (withholding--you did know that a tax refund was a refund of what you OVERPAID the feds over the previous year, right?). A *moron* would think that they got charged double for the first month.
> 
> ...


I think you have hit upon something there!


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## Chris Blount (Jun 22, 2001)

EchoStar's Ergen Mulls Yanking Court TV off DISH for Good

Anthony Crupi

JANUARY 31, 2007 -

Time may be running out for Court TV, as the programmer is closing in on a deadline that could find it permanently shut out of EchoStar's DISH Network lineup.

In a series of off-the-cuff comments at this month's Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas, EchoStar chairman and CEO Charlie Ergen suggested that he may pull Court TV off the DISH Net menu for good if a new carriage deal is not hammered out by Feb. 1.

More *HERE*.


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## lwilli201 (Dec 22, 2006)

Chris Blount said:


> EchoStar's Ergen Mulls Yanking Court TV off DISH for Good
> 
> Anthony Crupi
> 
> ...


That article brings every thing into prospective. I can see why Court TV wants more since their adds are not getting to as many people. Their add revenue will be reduced due to the reduction on viewers.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

It is interesting that the CourtTV ratings actually went UP during a month where they reached 13% less homes. Obviously E* customers were not a large part of the network's actual viewership - and it kind of proves E* right in saying that CourtTV was not a popular E* network and did not deserve it's placement in AT60. The channel isn't worth paying a 70% increase to keep.

Another fun fact from the article:


> Meanwhile, Court TV continues to try to communicate with its lost subs, running a 30-second spot in DISH Net markets that exhorts consumers to "stand up and object" to the current state of affairs. Viewers are directed to call a special 1-800 action line that informs them of their carrier options, offering information about DirecTV and their local cable operators.
> 
> (Unfortunately, the information database doesn't appear to be entirely accurate. A prompt leading to information about local cable service in Manhattan informs callers that Court TV is "only available on DirecTV in your area." That's especially ironic, given that Manhattan is served by Time Warner Cable, a sibling company of the Turner-owned Court TV.)


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

Chris Blount said:


> EchoStar's Ergen Mulls Yanking Court TV off DISH for Good
> 
> Anthony Crupi
> 
> ...


Fine with me. I've never watched Courtv, Judge Judy et al.


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

Paul Secic said:


> Fine with me. I've never watched Courtv, Judge Judy et al.


Fine with me too.Still have my CourTV with DirecTV.


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## Drewg5 (Dec 15, 2006)

CourTV with DirecTV, and its on CABLE even... Funny to see how quickly the E* ppl start yelling TROLL yet they do it soooo often.


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

Drewg5 said:


> CourTV with DirecTV, and its on CABLE even... Funny to see how quickly the E* ppl start yelling TROLL yet they do it soooo often.


It's really no problem.I really like those people.


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## lwilli201 (Dec 22, 2006)

James Long said:


> It is interesting that the CourtTV ratings actually went UP during a month where they reached 13% less homes. Obviously E* customers were not a large part of the network's actual viewership - and it kind of proves E* right in saying that CourtTV was not a popular E* network and did not deserve it's placement in AT60. The channel isn't worth paying a 70% increase to keep.


If it is not real popular, why does Dish want to put it on a more expensive package. 

I would think they would put the popular stuff in the upper tiers so people will get it. I believe they want to put it in the upper tier to draw more subs. Sounds like Dish wants there cake and eat it to.

They play to many games at Dish. Lawsuits all over the place. The distant network debacle. It goes on and on.

And remember, Court TV will lose advertising revenue because there will be a decrease in possible viewers. They have to make that up some way.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

lwilli201 said:


> If it is not real popular, why does Dish want to put it on a more expensive package.


E* is paying per subscriber. Why pay for 13 million subscribers when they are not watching the channel? The package they wanted to put it in would have provided it to less than 10 million subscribers, saving E* 25% on the channel (less the higher price charged by CourtTV for being in a less distributed package).

CourtTVs 70% per subscriber increase would have worked out to a 28% increase in E*'s costs, overall. I suppose it could be argued that leaving it in AT60(100) would be cheaper than moving it to AT120(200) ... but the channel certainly wasn't earning it's keep via E*.

Anything less than a 33% per subscriber increase would save E* money and put CourtTV on the air in AT200. CourtTV wanted the 70%. Let the bargaining begin.


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## La Push Commercial Codman (Jan 5, 2007)

James Long said:


> E* is paying per subscriber. Why pay for 13 million subscribers when they are not watching the channel? The package they wanted to put it in would have provided it to less than 10 million subscribers, saving E* 25% on the channel (less the higher price charged by CourtTV for being in a less distributed package).
> 
> CourtTVs 70% per subscriber increase would have worked out to a 28% increase in E*'s costs, overall. I suppose it could be argued that leaving it in AT60(100) would be cheaper than moving it to AT120(200) ... but the channel certainly wasn't earning it's keep via E*.
> 
> Anything less than a 33% per subscriber increase would save E* money and put CourtTV on the air in AT200. CourtTV wanted the 70%. Let the bargaining begin.


 One good thing, he save the fee he'll have to pay for his HBO and TIVO's lawsuit. LAWSUITS HURT US EVERYBODY. LAWSUIT HURT DISH OFCOURSE. aGAIN SINCE CourtTV wanted to be in A.T.60 and wanted everybody to pay more, said forget it. Were not raising A.T.60(100) PACK. Maybe after some time, will see Court TV come down to earth, other wise it's time to watch Judge Judy


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## jrb531 (May 29, 2004)

I know how to fix this for good *smiles*

Do I have to say it?

-JB


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Get a life and stop watching TV?


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## Mavrick (Feb 1, 2006)

*Perhaps Charlie is using this money for a Nascar sponsership*

Dish network is going to be sponsering a car full time for Roush Racing in the Busch series and for select events on the Roush Ford driven by Greg Biffle in the Nextel Cup series this season.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Perhaps they can nudge 07 on the track occasionally.


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## marketinghelp (Sep 9, 2006)

Here is the deal: Direct TV has Court TV and Comcast has Court TV. Dish is the only option here that does NOT carry Court TV, and that in UNACCEPTABLE. Court TV is a popular channel, and a major channel, shame on Dish for being the only one not to carry it. If they don't bring it back there will be a major exodus.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

> If they don't bring it back there will be a major exodus.


If there were going to be a "major exodus" it would have happened already so why bring it back. This was part of Charlie's reasoning in his discussion a the CES show also.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Go back a few posts. CourtTV has been off E* for a month and CourtTV's ratings are still up over last year. The loss of the number of people watching CourtTV via E* isn't going to hurt E* or CourtTV.

Major exodus? Get real. Losing CourtTV is a proven "no big deal".


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## John W (Dec 20, 2005)

James Long said:


> Go back a few posts. CourtTV has been off E* for a month and CourtTV's ratings are still up over last year. The loss of the number of people watching CourtTV via E* isn't going to hurt E* or CourtTV.
> 
> Major exodus? Get real. Losing CourtTV is a proven "no big deal".


James-What do the customers get out of this episode?


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## juan ellitinez (Jan 31, 2003)

John W said:


> James-What do the customers get out of this episode?


 Possibly a new channel Crime and Investigation network


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

John W said:


> James-What do the customers get out of this episode?


We will apparently get A&E's Crime and Investigation channel, although not yet.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I wonder... has there ever been a "mass exodus" since THE mass exodus historically? I think this is a term that is overused often, as I have yet to see a mass exodus of anything during my lifetime that I can recall... and especially when someone threatens a mass exodus, there usually isn't one.


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## Slamminc11 (Jan 28, 2005)

marketinghelp said:


> Here is the deal: Direct TV has Court TV and Comcast has Court TV. Dish is the only option here that does NOT carry Court TV, and that in UNACCEPTABLE. Court TV is a popular channel, and a major channel, shame on Dish for being the only one not to carry it. If they don't bring it back there will be a major exodus.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, you can't be serious! Well, I guess if you idea of a major exodus is like 100 subs, then maybe I guess.


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## tomcrown1 (Jan 16, 2006)

Maybe this is turner brand new marketing ploy. They do seem to have some dumbs ones, like the one in Boston---hay that may wind up on court tv and turner wants dish folks to see what they are missing!!


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## John W (Dec 20, 2005)

tomcrown1 said:


> Maybe this is turner brand new marketing ploy. They do seem to have some dumbs ones, like the one in Boston---hay that may wind up on court tv and turner wants dish folks to see what they are missing!!


http://mensnewsdaily.com/2007/01/31/boston-the-dumbest-city-in-america/


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## richiephx (Jan 19, 2006)

marketinghelp said:


> If they don't bring it back there will be a major exodus.


For one channel? I think not. I could care less if it's offered or not.


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## jrb531 (May 29, 2004)

marketinghelp said:


> Here is the deal: Direct TV has Court TV and Comcast has Court TV. Dish is the only option here that does NOT carry Court TV, and that in UNACCEPTABLE. Court TV is a popular channel, and a major channel, shame on Dish for being the only one not to carry it. If they don't bring it back there will be a major exodus.


Says you!

Since I don't want to pay for that crap then BRAVO Dish!

If "you" want it then "you" pay for it otherwise stop telling others what is popular and what is not.

Thank you very much

-JB


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## John W (Dec 20, 2005)

jrb531 said:


> Says you!
> 
> Since I don't want to pay for that crap then BRAVO Dish!
> 
> ...


Do you think Charlie will forward the savings on to you?


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## normang (Nov 14, 2002)

I really doubt that Court TV has any serious popularity. A lot of this thread is bash Dish again for trying to save a dime, either theirs or ours, makes no real difference to me. 

If I were in business to "make money", I have to offer products that people want to buy at a "cost" that allow me to remain in business and at "cost" that people can afford once its marked up so that I can make a "profit". To many seem to be clueless as to how business works, for if they did, every time a channel goes into negotiation limbo, it would never be a big deal.. 

Many of these channels are over-rated and just because you may like it, doesn't mean that millions of other Dish customers really care. For if they did, this would have been done and over with already..


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## KTMCDO (May 31, 2003)

since the channel lost its foccus 
i say good riddance 
the channel back in the old days when it was young only foccused on court cases 
non of the current movies crime shows etc


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## Araxen (Dec 18, 2005)

KTMCDO said:


> since the channel lost its foccus
> i say good riddance
> the channel back in the old days when it was young only foccused on court cases
> non of the current movies crime shows etc


I used to watch it alot back in the day when they were doing court cases, but now it's all reruns of network tv shows. Why should Charlie and E* pay more for that? Those reruns are available on other channels for the most part.


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## jrb531 (May 29, 2004)

John W said:


> Do you think Charlie will forward the savings on to you?


Indirectly yes

If Dish can hold the line on attempted extortion (you take crap channel #1 or you can't have popular channel #2) then we all benefit until Congress can get their act together and stop this anti-competative extortion tactics.

It's not the 25 cents (or whatever token amount that stupid channel costs) that bothers me... it's them trying to force yet another "take all my channels or you get none" crap that continues in full force.

So do I expect Dish to write me a check for 25 cents? No

Do I applaud and encourage Dish to keep fighting these silly "must carry" contracts.... YES!

-JB


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

KTMCDO said:


> since the channel lost its foccus
> i say good riddance
> the channel back in the old days when it was young only foccused on court cases
> non of the current movies crime shows etc


Which shows do they carry?


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## Nick79 (Sep 5, 2006)

Count me as part of this 'mass exodus' for I left E* a week ago and went crawling back to Comcast. The real reason was because of the price, but like *marketinghelp* said, CourtTV is on this system. So even though I'm now on cable, the debate is still entertaining.


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## Slamminc11 (Jan 28, 2005)

Nick79 said:


> Count me as part of this 'mass exodus' for I left E* a week ago and went crawling back to Comcast. The real reason was because of the price, but like *marketinghelp* said, CourtTV is on this system. So even though I'm now on cable, the debate is still entertaining.


okay, so you make 12! Helk of a mass exodus!!! I guess Dish will be folding up their tent in the next four weeks!


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## KTMCDO (May 31, 2003)

Paul Secic said:


> Which shows do they carry?


http://www.courttv.com/schedule/index.html?tempDate=7&nextWeek=no


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

KTMCDO said:


> http://www.courttv.com/schedule/index.html?tempDate=7&nextWeek=no


Never heard of those. Charlie: dump Courtv forever! You're the man. eew Nancy Grace


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## La Push Commercial Codman (Jan 5, 2007)

It's a little hairy, that even if Dish Network said that's o.k. Then the 13% should like Judge Judy. Atleast there's court room viewing. CourtTV will be back, but they must realize, there not worth as much as ESPN. I am sure this will happen. Lifetime, felt the pain. Since the pain has been felt, Lifetime came back. Let CourtTV feel the pain..

GO INDY. COLTS! GO INDY. COLTS COLTS 37 BEARS 25..


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## Mr-Rick (Dec 1, 2004)

marketinghelp said:


> Here is the deal: Direct TV has Court TV and Comcast has Court TV. Dish is the only option here that does NOT carry Court TV, and that in UNACCEPTABLE. Court TV is a popular channel, and a major channel, shame on Dish for being the only one not to carry it. If they don't bring it back there will be a major exodus.


I can assure you there will be no mass exodus. Being a retailer, I have a lot of contact with the public. I've had a booth at every show at our local convention center since the beginning of the year. There have been 3-4 shows to date. NOT ONE PERSON HAS COME UP TO COMPLAIN ABOUT COURT TV! Not one. No one cares. Even when we tell prospective new customers that there is a current dispute with Court TV and it is not available, there is no concern on their part.

NOW, when DISH had a spat with Lifetime. That was a different story. Last year we had a bunch of women complain that they wanted Lifetime, but they understood what was going on and that DISH was working on keeping costs down. The attitude at that time was "hurry up and hammer out an agreement already". The Lifetime viewers were much more vocal.

Rick
Freedom Satellite Systems
Cleveland, OH


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## oldave (Dec 22, 2003)

I think it has to come down to this... how many episodes of COPS can any one person stand, anyway?


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## Link (Feb 2, 2004)

Some stations aren't worth having and apparently this is one of them. I think most people AT 60 customers would rather have the Biography channel anyway!


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## Mikey (Oct 26, 2004)

marketinghelp said:


> Here is the deal: Direct TV has Court TV and Comcast has Court TV. Dish is the only option here that does NOT carry Court TV, and that in UNACCEPTABLE. Court TV is a popular channel, and a major channel, shame on Dish for being the only one not to carry it. If they don't bring it back there will be a major exodus.


:thats: :icon_lol:


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## cornflakes (Sep 30, 2005)

I rather enjoy CourtTV, I like their forensic shows and those stupid criminals caught on tape shows. Do I miss CourtTV? Yes. But will I dump Dish Network just because of that? No. CourtTV is a nice channel to have but it's not a deal breaker.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

Since Hbo(time warner) and Dish have settled their conflicts it looks like soon we will get both Court tv and maybe Cinemax HD too.


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

oldave said:


> I think it has to come down to this... how many episodes of COPS can any one person stand, anyway?


Cops is on Reality isn't it?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Mike D-CO5 said:


> Since Hbo(time warner) and Dish have settled their conflicts it looks like soon we will get both Court tv and maybe Cinemax HD too.


"_EchoStar Communications Corporation (NASDAQ: DISH) and Home Box Office today announced that they have entered into a long-term agreement that provides for the distribution of HBO and Cinemax television services on EchoStar's DISH Network(TM)._"

Seems like a deal that "provides for the distribution of HBO and Cinemax television services", not one directed at providing the distribution of CourtTV.


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## FTA Michael (Jul 21, 2002)

I see it more as a suggestion than proof. If Dish & Time Warner can get friendly enough to make a "long-term" deal over HBO/Cinemax, then maybe they can also work out terms on Court TV. I find it suggestive that Dish hasn't added that replacement channel yet even after Groundhog Day.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

FTA Michael said:


> I see it more as a suggestion than proof. If Dish & Time Warner can get friendly enough to make a "long-term" deal over HBO/Cinemax, then maybe they can also work out terms on Court TV. I find it suggestive that Dish hasn't added that replacement channel yet even after Groundhog Day.


 That is why I believe they will now work a deal for Court tv also. Otherwise Charlie would of replaced that channel by now.


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## juan ellitinez (Jan 31, 2003)

FTA Michael said:


> I see it more as a suggestion than proof. If Dish & Time Warner can get friendly enough to make a "long-term" deal over HBO/Cinemax, then maybe they can also work out terms on Court TV. I find it suggestive that Dish hasn't added that replacement channel yet even after Groundhog Day.


 They were also supposed to add muzak to AT 100. I "think" there may some sort of uplink trouble related to the guide data


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

Paul Secic said:


> Cops is on Reality isn't it?


And G4 too.


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

juan ellitinez said:


> They were also supposed to add muzak to AT 100. I "think" there may some sort of uplink trouble related to the guide data


The muzak channels are now available on AT100. I've seen several posts and received quite a few e-mails about it.

See ya
Tony


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## masterwolfe (Feb 7, 2006)

I have both Dish and D-TV, and we DO watch Court TV. Because of that and the <now resolved apparently> fuss with HBO, we bumped our Dish package down to the Dish 60, and bumped up the D-TV one. What bugs me a bit, is that in the lineup it still shows as Court TV, which may mislead people who aren't regular watchers and don't follow news such as this.


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## FTA Michael (Jul 21, 2002)

masterwolfe said:


> What bugs me a bit, is that in the lineup it still shows as Court TV, which may mislead people who aren't regular watchers and don't follow news such as this.


If you're not a regular Court TV viewer, then why would you get upset if its shows were gone?

No, this bit of subterfuge placates only those people who _think_ they watch Court TV but rarely actually do so. IMHO, that's a larger group than its regular viewers.


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## masterwolfe (Feb 7, 2006)

FTA Michael said:


> If you're not a regular Court TV viewer, then why would you get upset if its shows were gone?
> 
> No, this bit of subterfuge placates only those people who _think_ they watch Court TV but rarely actually do so. IMHO, that's a larger group than its regular viewers.


But it makes people THINK they get one more channel than they actually do, and then when they hear that something is coming on C-TV which they do want to watch, and they wonder why it isn't showing on a channel they believe they get... I believe that is fraudulent. Say you had the premium channels, and you rarely watch Showtime, but your bud told you about Dexter. So, you turn to what you believe is Showtime, at the time Dexter should be on, and lo and behold... it isn't there because in fact, what Dish is showing in your guide as Showtime is actually HGTV . Granted, they don't list the Court TV programs in the guide, but nonetheless, it DOES show as Court TV.


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## John W (Dec 20, 2005)

masterwolfe said:


> But it makes people THINK they get one more channel than they actually do, and then when they hear that something is coming on C-TV which they do want to watch, and they wonder why it isn't showing on a channel they believe they get... I believe that is fraudulent. Say you had the premium channels, and you rarely watch Showtime, but your bud told you about Dexter. So, you turn to what you believe is Showtime, at the time Dexter should be on, and lo and behold... it isn't there because in fact, what Dish is showing in your guide as Showtime is actually HGTV . Granted, they don't list the Court TV programs in the guide, but nonetheless, it DOES show as Court TV.


Knowing DISH, I'd chalk it up to incompetence before subterfuge.


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## satexplorer (Feb 6, 2007)

Looks like Charlie distrusts the court, since the law only listens to plantiffs. Charlie hasn't got the A&E Investigation Channel to work since it's only available in international markets.


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## masterwolfe (Feb 7, 2006)

John W said:


> Knowing DISH, I'd chalk it up to incompetence before subterfuge.


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

http://www.mediaweek.com/mw/news/cabletv/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003540347


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Paul Secic said:


> http://www.mediaweek.com/mw/news/cabletv/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003540347


Same article that Chris linked above. That would agree with what has been said all along about 75% of E* subscribers taking AT120 (now AT200) or above.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

> 204 COURT, COURT REMOVED FROM Tp 2 on EchoStar 7 at 119w


Buh bye!


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## satexplorer (Feb 6, 2007)

LOL, say goodbye to Catherine Crier everyone!


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## levibluewa (Aug 13, 2005)

but, didn't they remove the listings for Lifetime before they reached a settlement? How can one expect the other side to take you seriously when you threaten to remove their channel when you still have a spot reserved in the line-up.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

With Lifetime they put another "temporary" channel on at that channel number and changed the guide to reflect it while negotiating... They were sort of doing this with CourtTV until this week.

Now there is no channel 204 in the guide period, as opposed to a replacement placeholder channel there... so this tends to indicate a break in negotiations.


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## La Push Commercial Codman (Jan 5, 2007)

satexplorer said:


> LOL, say goodbye to Catherine Crier everyone!


:hurah: :grin: :lol:   EVERYBODY COULD TRY DIRECTV. 1-800-DIRECTV. IF YOUR DESPERATE FOR COURT TV.:beatdeadhorse: :new_smili :wave: P.S. IF YOU HATE DIRECTV, GOOD FOR YOU, YOU CAN WAIT FOR COURT TV RERUNS, WHEN COURT TV COMES BACK.. Otherwise join me for some Judge Judy, atleast it's court room action..


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## Slamminc11 (Jan 28, 2005)

La Push Commercial Codman said:


> :hurah: :grin: :lol:   EVERYBODY COULD TRY DIRECTV. 1-800-DIRECTV. IF YOUR DESPERATE FOR COURT TV.:beatdeadhorse: :new_smili :wave: P.S. IF YOU HATE DIRECTV, GOOD FOR YOU, YOU CAN WAIT FOR COURT TV RERUNS, WHEN COURT TV COMES BACK.. Otherwise join me for some Judge Judy, atleast it's court room action..


Yeah, Direct's numbers are going to jump by what, 4? 5 maybe? There's that "mass exodus" people were boo hooing about!


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

Court tv has been uplinked again ,but not available to viewers yet, up on the 119 sat. It is in the uplink report. This might indicate the eventual return and the removal of the channel from the guide might just be a bargaining tactic . The fact that no new channel like A&E crime channel, has been put up in place of Court tv, might be why they have uplinked Court tv back up on the 119 sat. It might be coming back soon.

Time will tell.


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## juan ellitinez (Jan 31, 2003)

Mike D-CO5 said:


> Court tv has been uplinked again ,but not available to viewers yet, up on the 119 sat. It is in the uplink report. This might indicate the eventual return and the removal of the channel from the guide might just be a bargaining tactic . The fact that no new channel like A&E crime channel, has been put up in place of Court tv, might be why they have uplinked Court tv back up on the 119 sat. It might be coming back soon.
> 
> Time will tell.


 Thats a "test" channel on 204..


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## CoriBright (May 30, 2002)

Mike D-CO5 said:


> Court tv has been uplinked again ,but not available to viewers yet, up on the 119 sat. It is in the uplink report. This might indicate the eventual return and the removal of the channel from the guide might just be a bargaining tactic . The fact that no new channel like A&E crime channel, has been put up in place of Court tv, might be why they have uplinked Court tv back up on the 119 sat. It might be coming back soon.
> 
> Time will tell.


WOOT! Best news of the day.


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

Mike D-CO5 said:


> Court tv has been uplinked again


Noooo.. A channel called TEST on transponder 2 at 119º has been uplinked to channel 204. At the same time a TEST channel that was on channel 890-somthing on tp 2 at 119º, which was showing the Biography Channel, was removed.

Court TV was not uplinked.

See ya
Tony


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## djpadz (Aug 4, 2004)

CoriBright said:


> WOOT! Best news of the day.


I'm watching it right now. Jami Floyd: Best Defense. Channel 204 - 119 sat, but EPG info only goes through noon PST so far.

--Dj


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

Okay... so... I could be wrong.  I'm not at home now so I can't check

---Court TV is definitely back on Dish, apparently on AT100.

See ya
Tony


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Hmmm ... looks like the recent pull of the mirror 204 woke someone up.


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## FTA Michael (Jul 21, 2002)

"Turner Broadcasting System, Inc. and EchoStar Sign Carriage Agreement for Court TV

"ATLANTA & ENGLEWOOD, Colo.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Feb. 9, 2007--Turner Broadcasting System, Inc. (TBS, Inc.) and EchoStar Communications Corporation's DISH Network(TM) (NASDAQ: DISH) today announced that they have signed an affiliation agreement that allows for the restored distribution of Court TV.

"Court TV will be carried in DISH Network's AT200 package in its former channel position 204.

"Specific terms of the deal were not disclosed, however, both parties are pleased with the financial terms of the agreement."

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=68854&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=961324&highlight=


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

I told you so. Court tv is back!

According to the Dish press release it is at top 200.


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## La Push Commercial Codman (Jan 5, 2007)

REALITY IS BACK. NO MORE JUDGE JUDY. EVERYBODY SHOULD BE GLAD COURT TV IS BACK. LET'S JUST ASK COURT TV, IF THERES RERUNS OF FLORENSIC FILES AND CATHLEAN CRIER..:contract: :new_smili :icon_band


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## CoriBright (May 30, 2002)

TNGTony said:


> Okay... so... I could be wrong.  I'm not at home now so I can't check
> 
> ---Court TV is definitely back on Dish, apparently on AT100.
> 
> ...


I don't care what package it's in as long as it's in one of them!!!   

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=68854&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=961324&highlight=
(Echostar Press Release)


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## klang (Oct 14, 2003)

So those stupid commercials on CNN are finally going away? :joy:


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

Mike D-CO5 said:


> Court tv has been uplinked again ,but not available to viewers yet, up on the 119 sat. It is in the uplink report. This might indicate the eventual return and the removal of the channel from the guide might just be a bargaining tactic . The fact that no new channel like A&E crime channel, has been put up in place of Court tv, might be why they have uplinked Court tv back up on the 119 sat. It might be coming back soon.
> 
> Time will tell.


The bandwith drain is back ACK:nono2: :nono2:


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## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

Since they put the channel back on Friday, the DBSTALK front page should be updated. Still points here saying "Ergen Mulls Yanking Court TV off DISH for Good".


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