# Where's our new software and what's it gonna fix?



## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

So, last update was in the 03/15 date range, many of us after.

When should we be expecting the next update. History was 02/21 or about there to 03/15.

Earl, you have any updates for us?

Personally, the only difference I've noticed with any updates, is that with 10AF I get MORE system freezes in the morning. I still have had items in TDL that were not recorded and no reason why in history.

Anyone what to start a pool?


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Also what about these dates. My unit currently shows I started with 108F (hard drive was also stamped with that) and I received 10A3 on 02/21/2006 at 2:21 am. I know that's not right. On 02/21/2006 I received the gizmo between 108F and 10A3. So if these developers cannot get something simple as the "About Screen" to work, what else are they missing?

How many of you have that weird date in the future on your version info?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

I don't know what is up with the dates, why it says it updates on xyz date.

But as for what I have heard.

They are currently working on the next build (it is in internal testing at the moment). 

I don't have an exact date for the release, so I can't give you one...
And I do have a list of the "includes" and I have been dropping hints over my posts...

But as for "formalizing" the list, that will have to wait until at least the build goes beta.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Before you ask... 

DirecTV's definition of Beta test is that it goes out to a larger subset of their staff.
Basically the last round of tests before hitting our boxes...


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## morgantown (Nov 16, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Before you ask...
> 
> DirecTV's definition of Beta test is that it goes out to a larger subset of their staff.
> Basically the last round of tests before hitting our boxes...


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

So, based on hints in these posts, the new release isn't yet in "Beta". 

morgantown, I agree. But everyone can have their own definitions of terms. Now we have an idea of what "Beta" means to DTV. They expand the test group from 5 to 10 staff members. :scratchin :scratchin :scratchin :scratchin :scratchin 

Thanks Earl.:up:


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## Blurayfan (Nov 16, 2005)

I find the date the software was upgraded is correct if the DVR installs the upgrade itself. If you force an upgrade it keeps the date from the previous upgrade.


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## Igor (Jan 3, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> So, based on hints in these posts, the new release isn't yet in "Beta".
> 
> morgantown, I agree. But everyone can have their own definitions of terms. Now we have an idea of what "Beta" means to DTV. They expand the test group from 5 to 10 staff members. :scratchin :scratchin :scratchin :scratchin :scratchin
> 
> Thanks Earl.:up:


What would be an appropriated number of Beta testers and for how long do you think they should test the unit before they release it to us?


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

DVDKingdom said:


> I find the date the software was upgraded is correct if the DVR installs the upgrade itself. If you force an upgrade it keeps the date from the previous upgrade.


My first upgrade and last upgrade was done by the unit. Not forced. Still shows 10AF as updated 02/21/06 which was it updated to 103F I think. Not sure about that. But I do know I've had an upgrade since 108F which was the original version on my unit and still shows as the previous version.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Vitor said:


> What would be an appropriated number of Beta testers and for how long do you think they should test the unit before they release it to us?


I donno. More than 10 and not employees. How about we start there?

See that's what a software development team is suppose to handle. They define the beta test criteria, the beta test group size and they define what is being tested. They don't just send it out to a group of their employees and tell them to report anything "strange".

From what we've seen with the R15, I don't really think the Beta test program DTV has in place is working. Yet they continue to utilize this non-working process. There have been updates since November but what has really been fixed? What has been broken? I know personally, I'm seeing more freezes since the last update. For whatever that's worth.

Bottom line is that Beta testing with your employees isn't the best way to test software. But that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.


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## Blurayfan (Nov 16, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> My first upgrade and last upgrade was done by the unit. Not forced. Still shows 10AF as updated 02/21/06 which was it updated to 103F I think. Not sure about that. But I do know I've had an upgrade since 108F which was the original version on my unit and still shows as the previous version.


My R15 shows
Original Version: 1044
Past Upgrade: 10AF (03/21/2006) 3:01AM
The two previous upgrades which I forced stayed at (12/22/2005) even though one was updated on 02/21/2006.


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## JAWheat411 (Mar 19, 2004)

Ok so I just got my R15 a few days ago. I know I did a software upgrade the day I got it. It did help me. I had the static sound when I would play after rewinding or fast forwarding. Also it only had 1 tuner showing before I upgraded. But what I want to know is where do I look to find out what software version I have and when it was updated.
Thanks


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

Vitor said:


> What would be an appropriated number of Beta testers and for how long do you think they should test the unit before they release it to us?


A few hundred for 3-6 months. Seriously.

Be careful what you wish for. A software update every few weeks isn't necessarily a good thing.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

walters said:


> A few hundred for 3-6 months. Seriously.
> 
> Be careful what you wish for. A software update every few weeks isn't necessarily a good thing.


It's also not that "bad" either....

In the long run... yah... but right now, while they are trying to get as many fixes, corrections, and additions as soon as possible... It is better then saying... yep we have that fixed, but the next release isn't till November.


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## Malibu13 (Sep 12, 2004)

JAWheat411 said:


> Ok so I just got my R15 a few days ago. I know I did a software upgrade the day I got it. It did help me. I had the static sound when I would play after rewinding or fast forwarding. Also it only had 1 tuner showing before I upgraded. But what I want to know is where do I look to find out what software version I have and when it was updated.
> Thanks


Welcome to the forum. 

Menu> Settings> Setup> Info & Test> System Info


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## Malibu13 (Sep 12, 2004)

Earl Bonovich said:


> It's also not that "bad" either....
> 
> In the long run... yah... but right now, while they are trying to get as many fixes, corrections, and additions as soon as possible... It is better then saying... yep we have that fixed, but the next release isn't till November.


I also prefer to see "updates" on regular montly basis as they are now, rather than a long wait, having to "assume" that things are being corrected or at least attempted.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

Vitor said:


> What would be an appropriated number of Beta testers and for how long do you think they should test the unit before they release it to us?


I don't think it's the number of testers that's the issue I think it's how they use it. If they just setup SL and leave to see if it records and just play programs from MYVOD, I don't think they'll see any issues. I think they need to test these units with at least 35 or more SL's and try to go into the SL's, Prioriztier, Guide, Setting Menu, etc daily.


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

cabanaboy1977 said:


> I think they need to test these units with at least 35 or more SL's and try to go into the SL's, Prioriztier, Guide, Setting Menu, etc daily.


I 100% agree. If DirecTV does really read this forum then they need to grab a few handfuls of the hardcore R-15 users here and let them have at it. Unless you have people using the unit 3-4-5 hours at a time everyday, checking things, tweaking the settings, etc... it going to be a long time before it gets fixed in my opinion.


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## dodge boy (Mar 31, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> It's also not that "bad" either....
> 
> In the long run... yah... but right now, while they are trying to get as many fixes, corrections, and additions as soon as possible... It is better then saying... yep we have that fixed, but the next release isn't till November.


Yeah I agree kind of, but when their "upgrade" causes more problems than it fixes. Since this last upgrade I have to reset everytime the guide gets full. It stops responding????? :nono2:


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

What is weird is that mine has worked more consistently. But I did not get that "in between" update either. I am not missing any recordings as compared with my other box. I am getting repeats but, I can live with deleting a repeat, I can't deal with it not recording so for me, it's improved.


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## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

Bobman said:


> I ...they need to grab a few handfuls of the hardcore R-15 users here and let them have at it.


Sign me up! I feel like I'm an unofficial Beta tester anyway


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

I think in this release they are going to fix some stuff and add some other stuff.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Clint Lamor said:


> I think in this release they are going to fix some stuff and add some other stuff.


Ah, the true optimist. :biggthump

My biggest wish is that with the next update we do see "something". And that we know what we're expected to see.

Earl talks to folks in the development team. But with the updates we've received thus far we're not really sure what they're suppose to fix. The last one was suppose to fix the non-recorded shows. That may have worked, I still ran into shows that were in the TDL hours before they were suppose to record and they didn't. Also there was nothing in history...as if it never existed. So, from my point of view, this last update didn't work. But then again, I don't know exactly what it was that was fixed.

Since the last update (10AF) I've seen more random hangs when turning on the unit in the morning than ever before.

I think what some of us are looking for is an update which fixes A., B., C. and D. Then we can let the developers know for sure the update did or did not fix A, B, C or D. When we get an update that is just an update, we can't help and we get VERY frustrated.

I don't mean to pick on you Clint, but this response is what we always get. The next update will fix some STUFF and will add some STUFF. But if we, as users, don't have any idea what the "STUFF" is, we can't help verify if the fixed STUFF was indeed fixed and the new STUFF works properly.

How does everyone spell COMMUNICATION? Right now, there needs to be some type of meaningful COMMUNICATION between the R15 development staff and at least some R15 users. If DTV's goal is to blindly release update after update without letting the users (and even their own support staff) know what is suppose to be fixed, then the R15 will never be an accepted platform.

COMMUNICATION. Get it?

Ok, I'll jump off my soap box, yet again. :soapbox:


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

I think one of the large things that needs to be changed is the history. This way if something does go wrong we can at least give a valid explanation of why it happened. I deleted something the other night looked in the Hostory and it said cancelled. I was like huh? I didn't cancel anything I deleted the show. VERY poor logging in my eyes. My comment about stuff was meant as a joke btw.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

Clint Lamor said:


> I think one of the large things that needs to be changed is the history. This way if something does go wrong we can at least give a valid explanation of why it happened.


I second that.


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## psweig (Feb 4, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> Ah, the true optimist. :biggthump
> 
> My biggest wish is that with the next update we do see "something". And that we know what we're expected to see.
> 
> ...


I have A LOT of software that is upgraded regularly. With the upgrade comes a text file *detailing* what was fixed with which upgrade. This business of not knowing what is being fixed is BS.


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

Software almost always works that way, firmware updates, which is what this is, is not nearly as detailed about bug fixes.....it would be good to remember that fact....


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## matty8199 (Dec 4, 2005)

The main thing that needs to be fixed is the damn series links. It is unacceptable for an episode of a series to not record when the SL is set to record ALL EPISODES! That's the whole point of name-based recording!

I'm sorry, but I have no confidence that the D* software team has any clue what they're doing. It cannot possibly take this long to fix something that simple. The algorithm isn't even complicated! 

- when adding SL, check for all instances of program
- add all instances of program to TDL
- when downloading new guide data, check for new instances of program
- add new instances of program to TDL
- repeat each time new guide data is downloaded

It's so simple that the fact they haven't fixed it yet is just unfathomable to me. It's here that I really think the 100-entry limit on the TDL is causing MAJOR, MAJOR problems. Of course, the above algorithm also assumes that the box records everything that's listed in the TDL, which it doesn't...


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

I sort of wonder if some of these issues are caused by the fact that this box updates it's recording schedule like every few seconds. Case in point, you have a show scheduled to record - Monster Garage, plus other shows that are on multiple times a day but the first said recording interfers with the higher priority show - well you look at the higher show - Monster Garage and see it's a rerun (not even gonna start on that bug) so you cancel the show - Seconds later the show that wasn't going to be recorded - Good Eats starts recording - Cancel that one and then Another show that was under that starts recording. I had this happen lst night, it was more noticeable because I only have one tuner hooked up right now. 

This real time system has got to cause some havoc on other things.


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## matty8199 (Dec 4, 2005)

I assume the box doesn't download guide data more than once a day - the easy solution (if it does only d/l once a day, which I'd be surprised if it did) is to check the recording schedule each time you download guide data. 

If it's downloading more than once a day, they're making it more complicated than it needs to be, really. Networks don't change their schedules that often that it would need to be checked more than once a day, IMHO...


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

Now I may be wrong but I think someone said it can get guide data at any point of the day and time. If something changes it can be streamed out as it changes and the boxes will know about it. Yes this does complicate things but it taks care of one of the complaints in TiVo land where things change and your DVR doesn't record if they don't know in enough time for the boxes all to call home.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Clint Lamor said:


> I sort of wonder if some of these issues are caused by the fact that this box updates it's recording schedule like every few seconds. Case in point, you have a show scheduled to record - Monster Garage, plus other shows that are on multiple times a day but the first said recording interfers with the higher priority show - well you look at the higher show - Monster Garage and see it's a rerun (not even gonna start on that bug) so you cancel the show - Seconds later the show that wasn't going to be recorded - Good Eats starts recording - Cancel that one and then Another show that was under that starts recording. I had this happen lst night, it was more noticeable because I only have one tuner hooked up right now.
> 
> This real time system has got to cause some havoc on other things.


Could be true. But other DVRs do handle this properly. E*, cable and Tivo. If this is too much to ask from the R15, then possibly DTV may want to get out of the DVR business.

This thing was released in November, we're now in April.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Clint Lamor said:


> Now I may be wrong but I think someone said it can get guide data at any point of the day and time. If something changes it can be streamed out as it changes and the boxes will know about it. Yes this does complicate things but it taks care of one of the complaints in TiVo land where things change and your DVR doesn't record if they don't know in enough time for the boxes all to call home.


Are you saying the guide data changes from minute to minute? The DR Phill on channel 3 all of a sudden changed? Receiving guide data every second doesn't give the R15 an excuse for properly recording shows.

Even if the guide data changes by the minute, as I said before, every other DVR can handle those changes. Let's not start thinking of excuses. It's now time for the R15 development staff to step up to the plate and fix "something". "Something" we can all see is fixed.


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## matty8199 (Dec 4, 2005)

Clint Lamor said:


> Now I may be wrong but I think someone said it can get guide data at any point of the day and time. If something changes it can be streamed out as it changes and the boxes will know about it. Yes this does complicate things but it taks care of one of the complaints in TiVo land where things change and your DVR doesn't record if they don't know in enough time for the boxes all to call home.


Regardless of how many times a day it gets new guide data, if it followed the algorithm I posted earlier in this thread it would never miss a single recording. I could write code to do that algorithm (at the very least to record all episodes) in less than 8 hours (a full work day).

If I can figure out the algorithm and write the code in less than a day, what the hell are these people doing that it's been six months and it still doesn't work??


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> Are you saying the guide data changes from minute to minute? The DR Phill on channel 3 all of a sudden changed? Receiving guide data every second doesn't give the R15 an excuse for properly recording shows.
> 
> Even if the guide data changes by the minute, as I said before, every other DVR can handle those changes. Let's not start thinking of excuses. It's now time for the R15 development staff to step up to the plate and fix "something". "Something" we can all see is fixed.


So explain to me how and when TiVo handles this? Oh would that be by sending the users and emai saying hey your TiVo probably isn't going to record this show correctly tonight?

Now I VERY much agree that our DVR's should record things correctly and it annoys me very much that it doesn't. I was simply stating that the box has the ability to get new guide data from the stream at any point and make changes in recordings based on that. It could be part of whats screwing it up it may not be. I have never seen their code so I honestly have no idea what they are doing.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

matty8199 said:


> If I can figure out the algorithm and write the code in less than a day, what the hell are these people doing that it's been six months and it still doesn't work??


I'm sure many of us could, which might lead some to believe it hasn't been made a priority on any developer's TDL. We need to keep in mind that we have no idea of the resource pool being used. One guess may be that most are off working on the HD DVR and maybe only a few were left behind to get the R15 working.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

I don't know about the make up of the "teams", so I am not going to elaborate on that.

BUT... the Algorithm, is a little more complicated then what you listed matty...

I am just scratching the surface here...

You have to account for "Single Records", Previously recorded episodes, first run, repeat, conflicts, priorities... 

Now do that in a "quick" method, when having to monitor several thousand channels worth of guide data (remember, there are thousand's of locals data in that stream as well)

Now do it without the benefit of a full relational database (such as MySQL, SQL, or Oracle)... so you are manipulating a flat file of types. maybe they have an XML engine in there, but still... to load up the doc....

Now mix in that that machine also has to monitor the todo list to start the recordings, and end the recordings.... and actuall DO the recordings.

Plus process GUI requests... and eventually network requests.

It is a big elaborate balancing game between resources and functions.

I am not trying to make excuses on why it is not fixed yet.....
I just want to point out, that is much more complex then it appears to be

(Note: I did start to tinker with writing my own "scheduler", but I haven't been granted access to Zap2It data stream... they are not responding to emails)


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Now do it without the benefit of a full relational database (such as MySQL, SQL, or Oracle)... so you are manipulating a flat file of types. maybe they have an XML engine in there, but still... to load up the doc....


Don't you think they have something other than flat files to work with? I know the few files that exist on the HD are .dbf files but have no idea as to the format. I would hope there is some type of relational database being used. Again referencing Tivo units, they've had their DB for many moons....like the beginning. While that's not relational it is an OO DB.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

I am sure it is a flat-file database type system. (In the same fashion that Access is a database) Similar to what ever TiVo has.... XML or some sort of structured system that can be indexed to allow quicker look-ups. 

But it isn't something as refined as SQL Server or MySQL.... Simply not enough power in the system.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I am sure it is a flat-file database type system. (In the same fashion that Access is a database) Similar to what ever TiVo has.... XML or some sort of structured system that can be indexed to allow quicker look-ups.
> 
> But it isn't something as refined as SQL Server or MySQL.... Simply not enough power in the system.


Earl,

You know as well as I that EVERY DB is a flat file system. Even SQL Server and MySQL. It all depends on the indexing methods used and indexes defined.

I find Tivo's MFS quite interesting as it is Object Oriented. With objects being defined in many various ways....from links, to menu items, to raw video. You open one of those objects and you can get it in any format.

I guess the point I was making is that the structure the R15 is using shouldn't be an issue as I would expect it to be utilizing some type of DB with indexes.

Maybe the problem is that the guide data isn't stored in a DB as it's stored in memory and needs to be reloaded after every reset. While storing the guide in memory should allow quick access, it would also demand a heavy processor load as you typically do not index data residing in memory.

The R15 has to take it's SLs and see where those shows are in the guide data to build the TDL. One would guess that involves taking the Series ID from the SL and doing a lookup in the guide data to find entries. Then adding those entries to the TDL. Since the TDL also seems to reside in memory and is rebuilt every time the unit is reset, perhaps that also isn't indexed. If so, it results in the poor little process that actually has to record shows from the TDL has to serially read through memory (should be fast but with only 64MB of memory, maybe it's swapped out to disk).

As always, I have no idea how the R15 works, I'm just guessing and this may or may not explain some of the problems yet to be addressed.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Clint Lamor said:


> So explain to me how and when TiVo handles this? Oh would that be by sending the users and emai saying hey your TiVo probably isn't going to record this show correctly tonight?


Tivos don't have to worry about this as they record everything I tell them to record. :sure:

However, in the very rare event they don't, I can quickly hop over to my history screen and see why something wasn't record as it may have conflicted with a higher priority Season Pass. Or, I can also tell it did record and someone deleted the show and when they deleted it. Thus causing much stress in our family unit as to why someone deleted one of my shows. :eek2:

Maybe the reason some shows that are in the TDL on the R15 hours before they are to record, and are never recorded, also don't show up in history. The R15 was too busy running through tables stored in memory, recording one show and playing live TV, to even know it missed something. That would not be good. :nono:


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Yes... "technically" everything is a flat file.

More of what I was getting at, was this....

In other apps... you simply "ask" the database to get the data.... The database engine is optimized to get the data.

Where as the DVRs don't have that luxury and have to not only develop there own query engine, but have to fit it into the limited resources (processor and memory) that are given to it.


My gut tells me, they are probably using a LOT of hashing.. .but then again, it has been a long time, that I had to work on a "database" with these types of constraints. (I am used to Quad Xeon's with Hyper Threading, and 8gb of memory...  )


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Yes... "technically" everything is a flat file.
> 
> More of what I was getting at, was this....
> 
> ...


Well I'm not sure about all DVR's but with Tivos, they do have "functions" to access the MFS. Functions that allow a program to "ask" for data, "add" data, "update" data and "delete" data. Functions that any database would have. Functions such as 'dbget' and 'dbset'. These functions are also available to anyone wishing to play with their own Tivo to set items like Menu Titles which is stored as an item in the OO DB referred to as MFS.

Run "tivosh" on a Tivo and you will get an idea of the functions that were already built in to the MFS.

For those non-techies out there. When I refer to "functions" those are pre-written routines used to open, read, write, update, delete objects/records/tables in a database.

The MFS I keep referring to on Tivo is the Media File System....as far as I know. This is an OO database in which any particular object can contain any info with any definition.

I truly believe that the R15 must have some type of database such as this. If this is not the case, we may never see this unit fixed. IMHO you cannot have a DVR that runs on tables in memory and a few indexed files on the HD. But again, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

It could also be the reason why the R15 doesn't "mash" the hard drive as much as the TiVo does... more of it is done in the memory space, then on the hard drive.

Which done correctly... could ultimately result in a faster and less noisy system....

Gosh I wish I had access to the code.... but then I would never get any sleep.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Earl Bonovich said:


> It could also be the reason why the R15 doesn't "mash" the hard drive as much as the TiVo does... more of it is done in the memory space, then on the hard drive.
> 
> Which done correctly... could ultimately result in a faster and less noisy system....
> 
> Gosh I wish I had access to the code.... but then I would never get any sleep.


Humm. Use 64MB of memory or 160GB of disk space? 

Guide data for 14 days. 
SLs limited to 50. 
TDL limited to 100.
DVR that still doesn't work....Priceless.

Sorry, yet another very weak attempt at humor. :grin:

I guess if "mashing" a HD is what it takes, then so be it. But again, as mentioned above, coding this logic is not really rocket science. Many of us here have coded far more complex applications than something like this.

On the serious side, maybe this is why we're running into the limitations and slowdowns that many are. Maybe the folks in the development team are getting a tad scared at the limit of 50 SLs and 100 TDL items as they know it's a major coding change to expand those and it would require more memory on the units in the field.


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## Mr2sday (Mar 31, 2006)

At what point is it worth dumping the current build and starting from scratch?

I think I read D* bought this software. They should get a refund and start from scratch.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Everyone needs to remember here that I'm just a back seat coder. I'm just guessing based on what I've been through in the past. I could very well be totally off base and totally wrong and I'm always open to opinions from anyone else.


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## ad301 (Mar 30, 2004)

Wolffpack, keep it up, your analyses are very interesting.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> Everyone needs to remember here that I'm just a back seat coder. I'm just guessing based on what I've been through in the past. I could very well be totally off base and totally wrong and I'm always open to opinions from anyone else.


I know .... and to the same degree... So am I.
I don't have access or actually any itimate knowledge on how things are actually written.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

The problem here is none of us have access to the code so every last one of us is just guessing. Yes we all know it has issues but I think it's pure conjecture to say things like it has this issues because..... Yes it's very easy to say oh ya it would be easy to do this or that, but in reality it's not easy to get everything working correctly along with everything else it needs to do.

I m hoping we start to see some things get fixed soon, as many of you I get annoyed that the box doesn't work correctly most of the time. I know I am on the edge of being highly annoyed that it messes up my recordings. Luckily though I don't have the nasty issue many of you do with the boxes locking and such (now that I said that i'm sure I will).


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## ad301 (Mar 30, 2004)

Clint Lamor said:


> So explain to me how and when TiVo handles this? Oh would that be by sending the users and emai saying hey your TiVo probably isn't going to record this show correctly tonight?


Why are you comparing the r15 to a stand alone tivo using dialup access? What you've cited is an extremely rare occurence, and only on boxes which only phone home once a day. It doesn't even apply to stand alone tivos which are connected by broadband.

Just as a test, at 7:50am I went to yahoo.com, found a show starting at 9:00am, told yahoo to have my series2 tivo schedule the show, and at 8:20am, the show appeared in my todo list. My last service connection had occurred at 4:53am this morning, and the next is not scheduled until 6:52am tomorrow. Let me know when the r15 has that capability.



Clint Lamor said:


> Now I VERY much agree that our DVR's should record things correctly and it annoys me very much that it doesn't. I was simply stating that the box has the ability to get new guide data from the stream at any point and make changes in recordings based on that. It could be part of whats screwing it up it may not be. I have never seen their code so I honestly have no idea what they are doing.


Well, the directivos have the same ability, and they don't get screwed up. In fact, ANY box connected to a data stream which is constantly updating, would have the ability to change it's todo list on the fly, IF it were programmed properly.


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

FWIW, Embedded MySQL will run in 1 MB of RAM. I doubt anything homegrown by DirecTV or NDS could do better than that.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

walters said:


> FWIW, Embedded MySQL will run in 1 GB of RAM. I doubt anything homegrown by DirecTV or NDS could do better than that.


1GB ?

If the DVRs could get 1GB of ram, they could do just about everything in memory.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

IMHO... One good enhancement, once networking it turned on.
Is to allow our PC's to do all the scheduling for all our connected units.
(That would go along with MRV of course)


And it would be an OPTIONAL thing...


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

Crap, of course I meant 1MB.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

walters said:


> Crap, of course I meant 1MB.


That is what I thought


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## matty8199 (Dec 4, 2005)

> You have to account for "Single Records", Previously recorded episodes, first run, repeat, conflicts, priorities...


1) With regards to single records - no, I don't. My algorithm was for series links, not single records. If you're recording a single episode of a series, it's not a series link.

2) As for the rest of the things you listed, I already qualified myself that my algorithm would only record all episodes. Still, that's the core algorithm and you could simply add / tweak it to take care of all the things you listed. For example, first run - just change every place i said "all instances" be added to the TDL, to add "all first run instances" to the TDL.

You're reaching here, Earl.


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## mkmhr (Jan 25, 2006)

One thing I have noticed since the update is that the sound begins directly when play is resumed. There is no more fast forwarding then waiting 3 seocnds before sound resumes, it's right away. That's a good thing.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

matty8199 said:


> 1) With regards to single records - no, I don't. My algorithm was for series links, not single records. If you're recording a single episode of a series, it's not a series link.
> 
> 2) As for the rest of the things you listed, I already qualified myself that my algorithm would only record all episodes. Still, that's the core algorithm and you could simply add / tweak it to take care of all the things you listed. For example, first run - just change every place i said "all instances" be added to the TDL, to add "all first run instances" to the TDL.
> 
> You're reaching here, Earl.


My apologizes... Your Algorithm then would be one sub-module of the "overall" scheduler module.

Why I threw the "single records" in there, is the "overall" scheduler has to compare the results of your SL module to programs that are already scheduled to record...

I think we all could agree, that the "scheduler" can not be summed up in 5 lines of logic


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

ad301 said:


> Why are you comparing the r15 to a stand alone tivo using dialup access? What you've cited is an extremely rare occurence, and only on boxes which only phone home once a day. It doesn't even apply to stand alone tivos which are connected by broadband.
> 
> Just as a test, at 7:50am I went to yahoo.com, found a show starting at 9:00am, told yahoo to have my series2 tivo schedule the show, and at 8:20am, the show appeared in my todo list. My last service connection had occurred at 4:53am this morning, and the next is not scheduled until 6:52am tomorrow. Let me know when the r15 has that capability.
> 
> Well, the directivos have the same ability, and they don't get screwed up. In fact, ANY box connected to a data stream which is constantly updating, would have the ability to change it's todo list on the fly, IF it were programmed properly.


Hmmm seeing as my TiVos where coonected to broadband for quite some time and it still had the issue what does that say? Not to mention MANY people at TCF had the same issues with updates to the guide. Oh well doesn't matter.


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## grifta67 (Dec 20, 2005)

Interesting discussion everyone, its a good read.

I'd like to go back to the first page when Earl said he's been dropping hints on what the next update will address. Well I've been off the board for a few weeks, so would anyone mind condensing these hints into a post? I suppose I'll go read through all these past threads if I must, but I'm sure someone can give a quick hint synopsis.

Thanks!


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