# Picture quality: DirecTV or DishNetwork?



## mrtak60451 (Oct 26, 2007)

After spending thanksgiving at my brother in laws:

My brother in law has a dish network HD receiver, and a direct tv HD DVR.
We spent the morning and afternoon watching football on dish network, and then switched to direct tv for the nfl network and the night game.
Mind you same tv, both hd receivers, both hooked up via hdmi.

Wow i could not believe the difference in PQ between the 2 different providers. So finally my question:

Is the DVR affecting pq somehow (for D*tv?) or is there some other reason? Like dish networks receiver is "better"?

Dish looked literally "3d" on screen, the picture was amazing.
On the other hand, when we changed the input to D*, even my (mostly) blind parents couldn't help but mention the Dish picture was "MUCH better"

So what gives? Is it the buffering of the DVR? Is it something else like the satellite transmission quality? The receivers themselves?

I had always thought d*TV was the way to go, but I'm definitely thinking otherwise now. The dish network PQ was unreal!


Any thoughts?
I am not a "fanboi" of either services, but the Dish Network picture was heads and tails above the direct tv dvr's.

Again, same tv, similar length runs from satellites, (both dishes mounted side by side on the roof)
Both coming into tv via hdmi.

So what could be the reason for the difference? I thought that both providers offer 1080p.
i apologize in advance if i posted this in the wrong area.

Thanks


----------



## MountainMan10 (Jan 31, 2008)

The picture quality for football varies a lot from game to game and network to network. Unless you switched between the receivers on the same game, same channel I don't think you can read too much into it.


----------



## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

As mentioned above different games have different equipment and the night game is on a completely different carrier.

Other things that can matter:

TV has smart inputs so each input needs to be properly calibrated. This is true for most new tv's and higher end older tv's. If he calibrated the TV to the one input but not the other than it will be noticable.

Different resolution settings on each receiver.


----------



## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

You were also comparing local channels from the satellite, and if that's mainly what you would watch, that might be a good comparison.

However, I never watch locals, and so I would compare movie channels or channels like Discovery.

I would like to do a side-by-side comparison, but I wouldn't switch unless Dish someday gets Sunday Ticket. I might subscribe to both, however.


----------



## mystic7 (Dec 9, 2007)

I watched all 3 games through Directv and the NFL network game was decidedly sharper and more vibrant. It was NFL Networks signal, equipment, transmission settings, whatever, not anything having to do with Dish vs. Directv.


----------



## Grentz (Jan 10, 2007)

You have to compare the same channels. Channels vary widely in quality.

CBS Sports for example always looks like pixelated junk in comparison to the other sports channels for me.


----------



## mrtak60451 (Oct 26, 2007)

Shades228 said:


> As mentioned above different games have different equipment and the night game is on a completely different carrier.
> 
> Other things that can matter:
> 
> ...


This might be a possible reason/ answer. I will have to discuss with my brother in law....


----------



## mrtak60451 (Oct 26, 2007)

mystic7 said:


> I watched all 3 games through Directv and the NFL network game was decidedly sharper and more vibrant. It was NFL Networks signal, equipment, transmission settings, whatever, not anything having to do with Dish vs. Directv.


Your answer is kinda troubling to me as I considered this scenario myself, however, it was the reverse of your scenario, ie it was the locals that really "popped" all day. (on dish)

We switched to D* for NFL network, for the night game. PQ was way way down.

i seem to remember reading/hearing something in the (way) past about the compression formats for Direct's HD (mpeg 2 vs mpeg3?4?)
Might that be at play? meaning that Direct uses a different compression for HD than Dish?
Do both service providers use the same compression tech across all channels?"


----------



## Ira Lacher (Apr 24, 2002)

I agree. I have noticed a degradation in PQ on NFL Network games watched on DirecTV compared with Sunday Ticket, ESPN and my local stations.


----------



## Devorandy (Dec 31, 2006)

Receivers do make a difference. My 13 year old standard receiver was far superior than the replacement that was just installed. I immediately noticed a difference on all channels. Some channels looked like a cable feed after the D12-700 was installed. I think my old RCADRD303RA stopped producing a picture due to signal/software changes. First the locals went (call to order) and then a week later the rest (call to order). The guide was still operating. Reset for Direct did nothing.


----------



## mrtak60451 (Oct 26, 2007)

Devorandy said:


> Receivers do make a difference. My 13 year old standard receiver was far superior than the replacement that was just installed. I immediately noticed a difference on all channels. Some channels looked like a cable feed after the D12-700 was installed. I think my old RCADRD303RA stopped producing a picture due to signal/software changes. First the locals went (call to order) and then a week later the rest (call to order). The guide was still operating. Reset for Direct did nothing.


I am actually surprised/disappointed in the lack of response on this thread.
After further messing around at my brother in laws (same tv/picture settings on different inputs, same cables, same channels, etc etc)
i am convinced that either the directtv box isn't functioning properly, ie a lemon or that Dish is actually WAY superior. I was hoping someone could enlighten me as to compression codecs or whatever. Maybe some evidence that the Direct HD DVR is defective or something.
So long story short, I'm now in the camp that Dish natively has a much better HD PQ or a superior HD receiver. (or maybe a combination of BOTH)

Either way, it seems to me that dish is the 1st among equals HD PQ wise.


----------



## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

Let me start off by saying that it is very possible that you saw what you saw: Dish looking better than DirecTV at your brother's house. And there are many reasons why that could be; folks have already mentioned a number of possibilities.

From a purely objective standpoint, DirecTV *should* have the better PQ.

Both Dish and DirecTV use MPEG4 compression for their HD channels, and both use receivers with Broadcomm chipsets to decode them.

The differences between the two services are that 1920x1080 channels are down-rezzed to 1440x1080 on Dish, and that Dish is putting 7 channels per transponder, vs. 5 per transponder on DirecTV. This means DirecTV is allocating more bandwidth per channel, which should allow more color depth and fewer compression artifacts.

Now, there are other factors that could be at play, especially for sports-related programming. Sports events are shot at various remote locations, so not only will the equipment vary at each venue, but there could be differences in the equipment trucks that get dispatched, and the feed lines that bring the signal back to the uplink facility. These things *could* be affecting signal quality, and it's possible to see week-to-week or location-to-location variations. Sports in particular can get complicated.

Comparisons between non-live channels (i.e., HBO, USA, etc.) are better examples of each system's potential, though they may not be very relevant if sports are your primary focus.


----------



## kevinwmsn (Aug 19, 2006)

Are you subscribed to the HD Access to get the channel in HD? Double check that you were on the HD version of the channel.


----------



## Sackchamp56 (Nov 10, 2006)

kevinwmsn said:


> Are you subscribed to the HD Access to get the channel in HD? Double check that you were on the HD version of the channel.


how funny would that be?:lol:


----------



## mutelight (Oct 6, 2008)

kevinwmsn said:


> Are you subscribed to the HD Access to get the channel in HD? Double check that you were on the HD version of the channel.


Not only that but it would be worth it to check and make sure both receivers are outputting at the same resolution.


----------



## mrtak60451 (Oct 26, 2007)

mutelight said:


> Not only that but it would be worth it to check and make sure both receivers are outputting at the same resolution.


Hey guys, thanks for chiming in.

Yes, for comparison purposes, we were watching identical HD channels from either provider.
Yes, both units are set to output to 1080p only (both via hdmi)
Actually we also even toggled the settings from native/non-native for both units.
So comparisions were as fair and even as possible.
For the record, my brother-in-law-'s "default setting" is to let each receiver output only in 1080p (ie native OFF) to avoid the extra seconds/grey screen between channel changes IF the TV were doing the processing)

Also thanks to the earlier post which discussed the sat bandwidth, and how directtv "should" look better. (I was looking for some quantifiable info like that so thanks)

All i can come up with at this point is the dvr vs non-dvr angle.

Is the direct tv HD dvr, compressing the signal further before it hits the dvr memory buffer? (or in the buffer) might the hard drive compression affect the end resolution?
For comparison purposes, we were using the "live stream" off of the dvr, yet (as you know) the buffer is alweays being used in a live event.

So might the buffer/DVR itself be the reason?

If we re-did a comparison between two different HD receivers 1. dish, 1 Direct (ie neither being a DVR) might that even the scorecard PQ wise?

Thanks Guys!

BTW I stand by my earlier comments:
The dish feed looks FAR superior to the D* HD DVR feed. Hands down. As i stated earlier, even my blind parents were able to discern the PQ difference.
(Which I would have NEVER expected)


----------



## Grentz (Jan 10, 2007)

I see one flaw, you cannot set the Directv receivers to output 1080p all the time....

Make sure another HD format is checked like 1080i so that you know what it is outputting at.


----------



## 4HiMarks (Jan 21, 2004)

Grentz said:


> I see one flaw, you cannot set the Directv receivers to output 1080p all the time....
> 
> Make sure another HD format is checked like 1080i so that you know what it is outputting at.


I don't think you can do it on Dish receivers either.


----------



## jbjorgen (Jan 7, 2010)

In my experience, DirecTV has always been equal or better.


----------



## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

4HiMarks said:


> I don't think you can do it on Dish receivers either.


Indeed you cannot. All "normal" service from both companies maxes out at 1080i. DirecTV has one PPV channel that has "live" 1080p, and both companies offer 1080p PPVs, either via hidden non-realtime sat feeds pushing content to the DVR at night, or via Internet Download OnDemand.

Again, there are many reasons why someone could see a difference that has nothing to do with one provider or the other. That's why such comparisons require a lot of setup/configuration knowledge, both of the TV set and the sat receivers, in order to make sure you are doing an "apples to apples" comparison.


----------



## peano (Feb 1, 2004)

Probably the two HDMI inputs are set up differently in the Picture settings of the TV.


----------



## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

Probably a good place to start is to use the HDNet test pattern that's broadcast early on some Saturday mornings to try to adjust the color/tint/contrast/brightness/sharpness on each HDMI input. Just setting the TV settings to the same for both inputs doesn't mean they are set equally since the outputs of the receivers are most likely different. Then once the settings are correct then watch the same program and compare PQ to see how they look.


----------



## trdrjeff (Dec 3, 2007)

peano said:


> Probably the two HDMI inputs are set up differently in the Picture settings of the TV.


+1, I would swap cables and inputs too for comparison sake


----------



## weasel5473 (Jan 9, 2010)

Someone is yanking your chain. Give me the exact same HD displays, the exact same feeds, and let me set the display controls, and HD is HD! Have been repairing electronics for 32 years, and digital is the same from point A to point B, CASE CLOSED! Weasel


----------



## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

weasel5473 said:


> Someone is yanking your chain. Give me the exact same HD displays, the exact same feeds, and let me set the display controls, and HD is HD! Have been repairing electronics for 32 years, and digital is the same from point A to point B, CASE CLOSED! Weasel


No one is yanking anything. The feeds from DirecTV and from Dish Network, while from the same original source, have a number of differences between the two services. How much these differences affect the PQ is certainly debatable, but they are not the same feed.


----------



## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Not counting unlimited combinations of video processors inside of TV/DVR, HDMI chips and down to capacitors, inductors, resistors what sometimes aberrate some important analog parameters in long chain from *same * content provider's source to your particular TV screen.


----------



## weasel5473 (Jan 9, 2010)

Forgive someone with a degree in electronics for second guessing someone who simply watches TV. I daily troubleshoot and repair the units you are using to view you HD on. Guess my humble opinion does not matter to an "expert" such as yourself. Weasel


----------



## 4120 woodrow ct (Oct 12, 2009)

I dont see it. Really I dont. I have a HDTV and both Providers. Granted every once in a while the picture looks better on Dish, it is consistently better on DIRECTV. The only reason I keep dish is because my elderly father who lives with us knows the channel numbers on dish... cant remember who I am half the time, but knows his TV... go figure


----------



## HarryD (Mar 24, 2002)

Its been a while since I had Dish... they weren't even close... DirecTV was far superior...


----------



## QuickDrop (Jul 21, 2007)

I have a friend with E* who insists my HD picture quality on D* is superior. I suspect this just might be an accident of technology. D* seems unable to compress as many HD channels into a transponder as E*. If they could, I'm sure they would sacrifice picture quality for channel count.


----------

