# Needless $5 local charge?



## tulsarick (Jan 1, 2010)

*I`ve ordered install with a 722K with an OTA module utilizing my antenna. If I`m using my antenna to get locals do I need to pay the extra $5 monthly fee to get my locals? *


----------



## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

If you're getting your locals off your antenna - no. 

If you want EPG (program guide) data - yes.


----------



## tulsarick (Jan 1, 2010)

*Can you still use the DVR to record locals if you don`t pay the extra $5. I`m assuming not. *


----------



## garys (Nov 4, 2005)

Yes you can, but you have to set manual timers since there will not be any program info in the guide, all ota channels will show "Digital Service".

Also note: using *bold* letter indicates yelling. Many people will take offense if you continue to post as such.


----------



## tulsarick (Jan 1, 2010)

Thanks for the info. I thought all caps indicated yelling?


----------



## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

Either.


----------



## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

What about bolded caps? 

But seriously...

Manual timers can be tedious if you had to use them all the time... plus, if you subscribe to locals via SAT that would give you the most simultaneous recording options on a 722K since you could use 2 OTA tuners and 2 SAT tuners... so you have the potential to record 4 simultaneous programs from your local stations at the same time.


----------



## tlowecats (Dec 21, 2009)

My ota locals do display guide data in lexington, kentucky. I just recently started using the ota locals and was considering dropping the dish locals and the additional cost. I haven't recorded anything on them yet, so I can't speak on that.


----------



## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

If you drop those Dish locals, then you will lose that EPG data for your OTA ones.


----------



## tlowecats (Dec 21, 2009)

Stewart Vernon said:


> If you drop those Dish locals, then you will lose that EPG data for your OTA ones.


Thanks for the info. I did not know that.


----------



## tulsarick (Jan 1, 2010)

With the 722K do you use your own antenna to get locals plus receive your locals by satellite? My install is this coming Monday.I hope it`s ok to post using a different color.


----------



## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

Why do you feel you must *emphasize my question* ?

The locals via Dish will come over the Dish. Your OTA locals will come over an antenna YOU provide (you may be able to work out an arraingement with the installer that he puts it in for some additional money).


----------



## tulsarick (Jan 1, 2010)

I have an antenna already installed with coax run to each TV. What I don`t understand is if you`re paying the extra $5 monthly to get locals what is the advantage of using your antenna also?


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

tulsarick said:


> With the 722K do you use your own antenna to get locals plus receive your locals by satellite?


With the ViP722K, you need an OTA module to be able to receive OTA at all. If you acquire(d) an OTA module, you'll absolutely need an external antenna to make use of it.


> I hope it`s ok to post using a different color.


Consider not trying to embellish anything that doesn't absolutely demand it. It typically isn't considered cute, hip or helpful.

Upcasing, bolding, using large fonts, italicizing or coloring an entire post is analogous to highlighting _every_ word in a book.


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

tulsarick said:


> What I don`t understand is if you`re paying the extra $5 monthly to get locals what is the advantage of using your antenna also?


DISH Network probably doesn't carry all of your available locals. OTA with a proper antenna will allow you to record those missing locals to your DVR as well as integrating them into your DVR so you don't have to switch back and forth between the TV tuner and the DVR.


----------



## tulsarick (Jan 1, 2010)

Thanks for the insights. Another query. How to utilize the VCR in conjustion with the DVR? There are times I`ll want to make a portable recording to transport.


----------



## coldsteel (Mar 29, 2007)

tulsarick said:


> Thanks for the insights. Another query. How to utilize the VCR in conjustion with the DVR? There are times I`ll want to make a portable recording to transport.


If you use HDMI to the TV1, use the associated RCA jacks to the VCR.


----------



## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

Reasons to use OTA plus dish LIL's:

1. as previously mentioned you have up to 4 tuners available at one time

2. to get HD on those locals that are not carried in HD on Dish LIL (PBS, CW, MNTV etc.)

3. to get the subchannels that are not carried on Dish (THIS TV, RTV, ION Life etc.)

4. to get OOM (out of market) local stations that Dish cannot sell you but you can receive with an antenna. For example I get a second CBS & FOX station from Youngstown, Ohio which is 56 miles away. On some Sundays I get extra NFL games between the Cleveland and Youngstown stations. I do get guide data for the Youngstown stations but can only watch them OTA (the guide data comes from the satellite, not the OTA signal, even though the OTA signal carries it's own guide data that CECB's and other ATSC tuners can use).


----------



## mastermtn (Jan 12, 2010)

garys said:


> Yes you can, but you have to set manual timers since there will not be any program info in the guide, all ota channels will show "Digital Service".
> 
> Also note: using *bold* letter indicates yelling. Many people will take offense if you continue to post as such.


Note Bene'

IMHO All caps is shouting, bold is just bold...no biggie...see netiquette

"Common characteristics

Common rules for e-mail[7] and USENET such as avoiding flamewars and spam are constant across most mediums and communities. Another rule is to avoid typing in all caps, which is considered to be the equivalent of shouting or yelling. Other commonly shared points, such as remembering that one's posts are (or can easily be made) public, are generally intuitively understood by publishers of web pages and posters to USENET, although this rule is somewhat flexible depending on the environment. On more private protocols, however, such as email and SMS, some users take the privacy of their posts for granted. One-on-one communications, such as private messages on chat forums and direct SMSes, may"


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

mastermtn said:


> IMHO All caps is shouting, bold is just bold...no biggie...see netiquette


As bolding isn't a feature of Usenet, Usenet netiquette doesn't speak to bolding.


----------



## samsmith (Oct 31, 2009)

Stewart Vernon said:


> If you drop those Dish locals, then you will lose that EPG data for your OTA ones.


Even if you dont subscribe for locals from dish you can still see the channels in the epg but no epg data, usually Digital Off-Air channels are shown in Yellow colour in the EPG.


----------



## b177b80 (May 11, 2009)

And just because you have an OTA does not garauntee that your signal for that station will come in as good as some other stations. Took me forever to find my abc without losing my nbc or another station


----------



## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

samsmith said:


> Even if you dont subscribe for locals from dish you can still see the channels in the epg but no epg data, usually Digital Off-Air channels are shown in Yellow colour in the EPG.


That's what I said.

The only way to record from OTA would be to set manual timers... and you'd have to use some other source of data (TV Guide magazine or online web sites) to find out what was on.


----------



## jzinckgra (Jul 10, 2007)

What do you mean about setting manual timers for OTA? All of my local OTA channels show up in the channel guide just like the Dish channels. I think they are a different color, but that's it. I've always got the same program info via the OTA channels as the sat channels.


----------



## 47HO (Apr 11, 2008)

He means you would have to set timers manually for OTA if you did *not* have the EPG info.


----------



## fryguy503 (Sep 3, 2009)

Just a note* after 2/1 if locals are available in your area you will get them and there is no way to opt-out anymore and you will have to pay the $5 charge. If you currently do not have locals I suggest not contacting dish for anything, once it adds them we cannot remove them as it will keep auto-adding them.


----------



## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

^^^^ Based on what?


----------



## bnborg (Jun 3, 2005)

jzinckgra said:


> What do you mean about setting manual timers for OTA? All of my local OTA channels show up in the channel guide just like the Dish channels. I think they are a different color, but that's it. I've always got the same program info via the OTA channels as the sat channels.


Are you saying that you _DO NOT SUBSCRIBE_ to your locals from Dish, and still get them in the EPG?

If that is true, then it is news here. If not, it is the same as others here have been saying.


----------



## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

bnborg said:


> Are you saying that you _DO NOT SUBSCRIBE_ to your locals from Dish, and still get them in the EPG?
> 
> If that is true, then it is news here. If not, it is the same as others here have been saying.


OTA channels are in the EPG regardless of whether you subscribe to locals or not. But if you don't subscribe to locals, then instead of EPG data you get "Digital channel" or "no information".


----------



## bnborg (Jun 3, 2005)

Right.

So, having them listed in the EPG is useless, as far as being able to create timers. You still have to do it manually.


----------



## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

bnborg said:


> Right.
> 
> So, having them listed in the EPG is useless, as far as being able to create timers. You still have to do it manually.


True... but I just didn't want there to be confusion when someone comes and posts that they see their OTA channels in the EPG but do not subscribe to locals.


----------



## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

Stewart Vernon said:


> OTA channels are in the EPG regardless of whether you subscribe to locals or not. But if you don't subscribe to locals, then instead of EPG data you get "Digital channel" or "no information".


Not necessarily. They don't show up in mine at all, not even in "All Channels". I don't even see that entire channel range.

But that could be because they're on a different Satellite and I don't have the LNB for it.


----------



## JWKessler (Jun 3, 2004)

Just to clarify something here, if Dish does not offer locals for your area, you will not be able to get the guide data. From this discussion I had assumed I could opt to pay the locals charge just to get the guide data. That was an incorrect assumption.

The brand X service does provide the guide data, even when they don't provide the locals. That is one annoying minus for Dish.


----------



## Terry K (Sep 13, 2006)

fryguy503 said:


> Just a note* after 2/1 if locals are available in your area you will get them and there is no way to opt-out anymore and you will have to pay the $5 charge. If you currently do not have locals I suggest not contacting dish for anything, once it adds them we cannot remove them as it will keep auto-adding them.


THIS would keep me from signing up for DISH. I have no desire to put any money in the pockets of my lackluster local stations, so I opt out of locals. I won't pay for what I can get for free.


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Terry K said:


> THIS would keep me from signing up for DISH. I have no desire to put any money in the pockets of my lackluster local stations, so I opt out of locals. I won't pay for what I can get for free.


No provider (outside of C-band that doesn't offer locals) currently allows you to "opt out" of LIL where available. Locals are now included in all packages but DBS providers will give you a small discount if they're not available.


----------



## Dave (Jan 29, 2003)

Actually you can opt out of locals from Dish. I had the locals from my area markets. But after watching them for 3 months in HD and deciding that my OTA was a lot clearer and brighter, I had Dish turn them off. I had no problems turning them off and saved the $ 5 monthly fee from Dish. So in my case I did turn off the locals and saved money. Dish can not force you to take something that you do not want. This would open them up to inspections and observations from the FCC. This they do not want. If they, Dish would try to make you pay for something you niether want or need, just file a complaint with the FCC in Washington and let them know what is going on. But this will not be necessary as Dish will just shut off your locals for you. You may need to pay a $ 5 downgrade fee to do this.


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Dave said:


> Actually you can opt out of locals from Dish.


This wasn't how it was explained. Good to hear that this option is available.


> This would open them up to inspections and observations from the FCC.


This is completely outside of the purvey of the FCC. Perhaps the FTC, but not the FCC.

On the other side of the DBS fence, several have expressed dismay that they couldn't opt out. This may have been related to DNS as opposed to LIL though.


----------



## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

I don't think the FCC cares (as long as the "locals" E* sells you are the DMA you are actually in). As far as "opting out" of locals, try opting out of locals with a cable system!


----------

