# Major Pixelation Problems With ALL NEW HD CHANNELS



## fantinocsny (Apr 3, 2007)

I have been having problems with just only the new hd channels. They break-up, pixelate, sometimes you can hear the audio and the video and all screwed up. I have called Directv and scheduled a service call for tomorrow. Does anyone know what might be causing this. It happens on an HR-20, and H20. Right now i have a 771 Error Code on the screen. Sometimes they work but othertimes they dont work at all. It cant be weather related because this only effects the NEW HD CHANNELS!


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## kevinwalton (Sep 13, 2007)

Lots of people have had trouble seeing the new bird because it wasnt there when your dish was installed. it sounds like your dish needs some fine tuning.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Could you list your signal strengths for 103 (b)??


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## VARTV (Dec 14, 2006)

kevinwalton said:


> Lots of people have had trouble seeing the new bird because it wasnt there when your dish was installed. it sounds like your dish needs some fine tuning.


Agree! What's your signal strength?


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## fantinocsny (Apr 3, 2007)

OK here is my signal strength for 103(B)

1 - 8 = 33,0,33,0,29,0,31,0
9-16 = 27,0,34,11,29,0, N/A, N/A
17 - 24 = 29, N/A, N/A, N/A, 0, N/A, N/A
25 - 32 = ALL N/A


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## techrep (Sep 15, 2007)

You need alignment.


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## fantinocsny (Apr 3, 2007)

OK here is my signal strength for 103A

1-8 = 0,0,0,0,0,0, N/A, N/A
9-16= ALL N/A
17-24= 0,N/A,N/A,N/A,N/A,N/A,N/A,N/A
25-32= ALL N/A


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## Radio Enginerd (Oct 5, 2006)

fantinocsny said:


> OK here is my signal strength for 103(B)
> 
> 1 - 8 = 33,0,33,0,29,0,31,0
> 9-16 = 27,0,34,11,29,0, N/A, N/A
> ...


Yes, you need an alignment.

By the looks of missing even TP's you may have another problem. Probably good that you have a service call scheduled.

Once the tech has completed the alignment, check 103b again. You should NOT see a huge descrepance between even and odd TP's. If 1 is 33, 2 should be 30-35 but NOT 0. Make sense?

If you still see 0's on even TP's have them check your dish LNB and confirm you have the correct multi switch installed (if any).


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## fantinocsny (Apr 3, 2007)

Is the 103(B) the only satellite i need to worry about? Are the new channels only on that one, or are they also on others?


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## litzdog911 (Jun 23, 2004)

fantinocsny said:


> Is the 103(B) the only satellite i need to worry about? Are the new channels only on that one, or are they also on others?


The nationwide HD channels are beamed from 103(b). If available, your local HDTV channels are beamed from either 99 or 103(a).


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## Radio Enginerd (Oct 5, 2006)

fantinocsny said:


> Is the 103(B) the only satellite i need to worry about? Are the new channels only on that one, or are they also on others?


No, 103b is not the only sat you need to worry about. I believe the other national HD channels are on 110. I could be wrong... Be worried about all of them. 

The new MPEG4 national HD's are all from 103b.


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## slubu (Oct 9, 2007)

Maybe you guys can help me out too. I have had this pixelation problem for about a month now, probably a bit longer. Sometimes there is no problem at all, other times it is horrible, i.e. pixelation every 5 seconds with audio drop out. This happens on all my HD channels, there is no pattern.

For example, last night football on ESPNHD was perfect, this morning Sportscenter was constant pixelation. The weekly shows I watch go from perfect, to 4x a show, to 10x a minute. What is going on? The new HD channels are affected as well.

This has occured pre and post b-band converters being installed. I have never moved the dish. Any suggestions? I am gonna lose it soon, I can't take all my shows being messed up.


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## Radio Enginerd (Oct 5, 2006)

slubu said:


> Maybe you guys can help me out too. I have had this pixelation problem for about a month now, probably a bit longer. Sometimes there is no problem at all, other times it is horrible, i.e. pixelation every 5 seconds with audio drop out. This happens on all my HD channels, there is no pattern.
> 
> For example, last night football on ESPNHD was perfect, this morning Sportscenter was constant pixelation. The weekly shows I watch go from perfect, to 4x a show, to 10x a minute. What is going on? The new HD channels are affected as well.
> 
> This has occured pre and post b-band converters being installed. I have never moved the dish. Any suggestions? I am gonna lose it soon, I can't take all my shows being messed up.


Could you provide your signal strengths for ALL sats?


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## techrep (Sep 15, 2007)

fantinocsny said:


> Is the 103(B) the only satellite i need to worry about? Are the new channels only on that one, or are they also on others?


In most cases, if 103b is peaked and tilt is set for 119 then the other sats will be right on or very close to peaked.


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## bribecka (Sep 18, 2007)

slubu said:


> Maybe you guys can help me out too. I have had this pixelation problem for about a month now, probably a bit longer. Sometimes there is no problem at all, other times it is horrible, i.e. pixelation every 5 seconds with audio drop out. This happens on all my HD channels, there is no pattern.
> 
> For example, last night football on ESPNHD was perfect, this morning Sportscenter was constant pixelation. The weekly shows I watch go from perfect, to 4x a show, to 10x a minute. What is going on? The new HD channels are affected as well.
> 
> This has occured pre and post b-band converters being installed. I have never moved the dish. Any suggestions? I am gonna lose it soon, I can't take all my shows being messed up.


You might be seeing the same issue I had. The dropouts/pixelization were actually happening on only tuner 2 with HD channels. That would explain why sometimes it's fine, other times it's horrible. I was convinced it was my DVR (HR20-700), but turns out the LNB on the slimline dish was bad. The tech replaced that LNB and I've been perfect ever since.

Good luck!


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## slubu (Oct 9, 2007)

Radio Enginerd said:


> Could you provide your signal strengths for ALL sats?


Is that the 1-8, 9-16 etc. readings? Do you need that for each transponder? Sorry for the ignorance, not too keen on all this.


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## Card46 (Apr 12, 2005)

I have 94 + or - a couple of points on all transponders that come up on103b. 0 on all transponders that come up on 103a. I'm in Arizona . Can Someone explain


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## Radio Enginerd (Oct 5, 2006)

Card46 said:


> I have 94 + or - a couple of points on all transponders that come up on103b. 0 on all transponders that come up on 103a. I'm in Arizona . Can Someone explain


Your signal from 103b look great. 103a are spotbeamed HD locals. I'm not familiar with your region so I don't know if you have any spot beams from 103a but my guess is no.

Do you have a concern or question?


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## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

Radio Enginerd said:


> Yes, you need an alignment.
> 
> By the looks of missing even TP's you may have another problem. Probably good that you have a service call scheduled.
> 
> ...


The pattern of odd TPs having signal and even TPs having no signal is quite normal for a 5-lnb dish which is badly aligned for 103(b). As the dish goes out of alignment, the even TPs drop signal strength much faster than the odds. As you adjust the dish back into correct alignment, the evens should catch up with odds in signal strength. If you get 103(b) into the 90s, the odd/even TPs are pretty much the same.


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## asousa (Sep 12, 2006)

Radio Enginerd said:


> If you still see 0's on even TP's have them check your dish LNB and confirm you have the correct multi switch installed (if any).


I only have 3 lines coming out of my dish... I don't need any kind of multi-switch for 103b correct?


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## xfidelitydj (Oct 9, 2006)

What's wierd for me is when I watch the HD program live while it is recording the picture is fine, but when I watch the recording the picture is pixelated with audio dropouts.

This has been happening since before the new bird was live, but does not happen all of the time. Could this be a heat related issue? My temp is running at 127 degrees.

Also, All signals strengths are in the high 90's


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## slubu (Oct 9, 2007)

slubu said:


> Maybe you guys can help me out too. I have had this pixelation problem for about a month now, probably a bit longer. Sometimes there is no problem at all, other times it is horrible, i.e. pixelation every 5 seconds with audio drop out. This happens on all my HD channels, there is no pattern.
> 
> For example, last night football on ESPNHD was perfect, this morning Sportscenter was constant pixelation. The weekly shows I watch go from perfect, to 4x a show, to 10x a minute. What is going on? The new HD channels are affected as well.
> 
> This has occured pre and post b-band converters being installed. I have never moved the dish. Any suggestions? I am gonna lose it soon, I can't take all my shows being messed up.


Ok, here are my 103(b) signals:

1-8 74 77 63 69 74 77 63 69
9-16 74 77 67 70 74 79 NA NA
17-24 69 NA NA NA NA 68 NA NA
25-32 NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA

I still get all HD channels, even the new ones, just the intermittent and sometimes constant pixelation as described above. Suggestions or thoughts?


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## Radio Enginerd (Oct 5, 2006)

asousa said:


> I only have 3 lines coming out of my dish... I don't need any kind of multi-switch for 103b correct?


A multi switch is needed if you need more than 4 lines from the Dish. Depending on your receiver combination, you can either have (4) single tuner receivers, (2) dual tuner DVR's or a combination of the above resulting in 4 tuners.

A multi switch in not needed for 103b but BBC's connected to the tuner inputs on your H20, H21 or HR20 tuner inputs are.


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## Radio Enginerd (Oct 5, 2006)

slubu said:


> Ok, here are my 103(b) signals:
> 
> 1-8 74 77 63 69 74 77 63 69
> 9-16 74 77 67 70 74 79 NA NA
> ...


Surprisingly, I was expecting you to report much lower numbers. Although not excellent, they aren't that bad.

What kind of receiver are you using? An H20, H21 or HR20.

If an HR20, do you see these same kind of numbers on each tuner?


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## Radio Enginerd (Oct 5, 2006)

xfidelitydj said:


> My temp is running at 127 degrees.


127 degrees is a normal operating temp so I don't think it's heat related.


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## slubu (Oct 9, 2007)

Radio Enginerd said:


> Surprisingly, I was expecting you to report much lower numbers. Although not excellent, they aren't that bad.
> 
> What kind of receiver are you using? An H20, H21 or HR20.
> 
> If an HR20, do you see these same kind of numbers on each tuner?


Yup, and HR20. And Tuner 1 and 2 are within 1-3 points of each other (where it is not NA).


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## Radio Enginerd (Oct 5, 2006)

slubu said:


> Yup, and HR20. And Tuner 1 and 2 are within 1-3 points of each other (where it is not NA).


Irvine is in S. California, right? Just want to make sure I have your location right...

I think you could benifit from an alignment but I remain surprised that you're having intermittent drop outs/pixelization. Any odd weather?

How new/old are your cable runs and how long? How many receivers do you have and do you have a multi switch?

Sorry for the 20 questions...


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## slubu (Oct 9, 2007)

Radio Enginerd said:


> Irvine is in S. California, right? Just want to make sure I have your location right...
> 
> I think you could benifit from an alignment but I remain surprised that you're having intermittent drop outs/pixelization. Any odd weather?
> 
> ...


Don't apologize at all for the questions, I appreciate all your help. 

No odd weather, this has been going on for over a month now. I think it maybe drizzled 1 time in that timeframe. Irvine in Socal is right. I got directv around April...the cable runs I would say are about 10 feet or so. I only have the one HR20 and no switch. Goes directly from the dish to my receiver.

I think I mentioned before this was happening before and after the b-band install. It started right after labor day was when I first noticed it (begin of Sept.). I don't know if this helps or not, but to get a signal at all, the tech that installed it had to align it for a while; I barely cleared the building in front of me to get the signal. That said, it was fine all months before September...then crap.


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## Radio Enginerd (Oct 5, 2006)

slubu said:


> Don't apologize at all for the questions, I appreciate all your help.
> 
> No odd weather, this has been going on for over a month now. I think it maybe drizzled 1 time in that timeframe. Irvine in Socal is right. I got directv around April...the cable runs I would say are about 10 feet or so. I only have the one HR20 and no switch. Goes directly from the dish to my receiver.
> 
> I think I mentioned before this was happening before and after the b-band install. It started right after labor day was when I first noticed it (begin of Sept.). I don't know if this helps or not, but to get a signal at all, the tech that installed it had to align it for a while; I barely cleared the building in front of me to get the signal. That said, it was fine all months before September...then crap.


 Your comments really do help so keep them coming. So you've been having this problem for over a month now? It happens with or without your BBC connected so you're seeing this pixelization/drop out on other channels...

Could you provide us with your signal strengths for 101, 110 and 119 if possible and whether you see a large or small discrepancy between tuner 1 and 2?

1 receiver really simplifies your setup so we either have a bad alignment, bad LNB on the dish, bad BBC's (although not thinking they're to blame) or a bad receiver all together.

Happy to help.

Do you have the protection plan from DirecTV?


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## slubu (Oct 9, 2007)

Radio Enginerd said:


> Your comments really do help so keep them coming. So you've been having this problem for over a month now? It happens with or without your BBC connected so you're seeing this pixelization/drop out on other channels...
> 
> Could you provide us with your signal strengths for 101, 110 and 119 if possible and whether you see a large or small discrepancy between tuner 1 and 2?
> 
> ...


I can post them but will be a bit later because I am at work. The absolute first instance I noticed this was September 3rd on HBOHD. Now it just happens sporadically everywhere.

What exactly is the LNB? Is that the dish itself? I do have the protection plan, so that would allow them to replace everything for free I hope. I have a technician coming out on Friday, anything in particular I should tell him? I have several shows recorded with the pixelization so I can show him easily what is going on.


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## Radio Enginerd (Oct 5, 2006)

slubu said:


> What exactly is the LNB? Is that the dish itself? I do have the protection plan, so that would allow them to replace everything for free I hope. I have a technician coming out on Friday, anything in particular I should tell him? I have several shows recorded with the pixelization so I can show him easily what is going on.


The LNB is attached to the arm the extends in front of the Dish. Your dish actually has 5 LNB's built into that assembly.

I'll wait patiently for your signal strength's from the other sats and we can put together a list of questions for your tech visit on Friday.


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## Vuce (Jun 29, 2006)

Radio Enginerd said:


> The LNB is attached to the arm the extends in front of the Dish. Your dish actually has 5 LNB's built into that assembly.
> 
> I'll wait patiently for your signal strength's from the other sats and we can put together a list of questions for your tech visit on Friday.


I'll be anxious to see your responses. I am having similar issues. I have 5 DirectV boxes in my house. 2 of them are HD DVRs and only ONE of them has a problem. Very similar to the problems slubu has. I've ONLY had problems with the new HD channels. My signals for every satellite/transponder are in the 90's to 100. Except for the odd numbers on 103 b. Those are in the 20's. The tech just left here and replaced BBCs, the box and the multiswitch. The signals then went up to 60's and 70's.

My problems started when the new channels came on. And I don't think they are going to end now.


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## Radio Enginerd (Oct 5, 2006)

Vuce said:


> I'll be anxious to see your responses. I am having similar issues. I have 5 DirectV boxes in my house. 2 of them are HD DVRs and only ONE of them has a problem. Very similar to the problems slubu has. I've ONLY had problems with the new HD channels. My signals for every satellite/transponder are in the 90's to 100. Except for the odd numbers on 103 b. Those are in the 20's. The tech just left here and replaced BBCs, the box and the multiswitch. The signals then went up to 60's and 70's.
> 
> My problems started when the new channels came on. And I don't think they are going to end now.


Vuce - If you had signals in the 20's on the odd TP's you most certainly had a problem with one of the items you listed above. I am surprised with a reading of 60-70 from 103b your tech didn't try to peak the alignment of your dish better. Your readings for 103b aren't horrible, but they're not what I'd call good IMO.

To clarify... Your picture is going to look as good as mine at 90+ but you don't have very much room to allow for rain fade. I suspect you'll have a problem when "the weather" hits depending on what part of the country you're in.

Is anything blocking your LOS (line of sight)?


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## Radio Enginerd (Oct 5, 2006)

Radio Enginerd said:


> Vuce - If you had signals in the 20's on the odd TP's you most certainly had a problem with one of the items you listed above. I am surprised with a reading of 60-70 from 103b your tech didn't try to peak the alignment of your dish better. Your readings for 103b aren't horrible, they're not good IMO.
> 
> To clarify... Your picture is going to look as good as mine at 90+ but you don't have very much room to allow for rain fade. I suspect you'll have a problem when "the weather" hits depending on what part of the country you're in.
> 
> Is anything blocking your LOS (line of sight)?


As told Vuce in PM, if you're handy with tools you may want to attempt some fine tuning on your own. I've found that a slight adjustment in elevation (how high/low your dish looks into the sky) is usually to blame for lower numbers. That and the azimuth (left/right) of what direction the dish is looking.

If you decide to do this let me know and I'll provide some links to the install videos that will be helpful.


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## kschriever (Sep 28, 2007)

slubu said:


> Don't apologize at all for the questions, I appreciate all your help.
> 
> No odd weather, this has been going on for over a month now. I think it maybe drizzled 1 time in that timeframe. Irvine in Socal is right. I got directv around April...the cable runs I would say are about 10 feet or so. I only have the one HR20 and no switch. Goes directly from the dish to my receiver.
> 
> I think I mentioned before this was happening before and after the b-band install. It started right after labor day was when I first noticed it (begin of Sept.). I don't know if this helps or not, but to get a signal at all, the tech that installed it had to align it for a while; I barely cleared the building in front of me to get the signal. That said, it was fine all months before September...then crap.


Just wanted to add my 2 cents... I'm in western New Jersey and have identical symptoms. Starting somewhere around the 2nd week of September, I began having significant pixelation issues on my EXISTING HD channels (HD Net, WNBC NY local, etc.)... but these have not been predictable, not apparently weather related, and shouldn't be LOS issues...the dish has been in the same place for 18 months, no new trees, and the problems SEEM to go beyond the new satellite at 103(b). Also, on my HR-20 I have one transponder reading at 73, 2 or 3 more at 78/79 and the rest all 80s, 90s and a few 100s. Both tuners are within a very few points of one another across the board. Just got off the horn with D* tech support and have a guy coming out Sunday AM... will keep an eye on this thread and update after my installer visit.


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## slubu (Oct 9, 2007)

Radio Enginerd said:


> The LNB is attached to the arm the extends in front of the Dish. Your dish actually has 5 LNB's built into that assembly.
> 
> I'll wait patiently for your signal strength's from the other sats and we can put together a list of questions for your tech visit on Friday.


Alright, here we go.....(Tuners 1 and 2 are almost identical for all of them):

101:

86 83 83 0 85 95 85 95
86 83 85 0 86 95 83 95
85 100 83 0 85 95 83 95
83 0 80 100 82 95 78 95

110:

NA NA NA NA NA NA NA 91
NA 92 NA 93 NA NA NA NA 
NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA
NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA

119:

NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA
NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA
NA NA NA NA NA 83 48 84
88 87 85 86 0 88 69 91

99(b):

0 27 0 28 0 0 NA NA
NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA
NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA
NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA

103(a):

94 44 0 85 92 52 NA NA
NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA
0 NA NA NA NA NA NA NA 
NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA

103(b):

73 76 62 66 72 76 65 70
73 76 68 71 74 78 NA NA
70 NA NA NA NA 63 NA NA
NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA


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## pg2724 (Aug 15, 2007)

This is happening to me also.


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## Cru Jones (Aug 28, 2007)

I've had pixelation issues with my HD channels, even before the latest rollout of channels. I've had DirecTV techs out here twice, once to align the dish and once to replace my HR20. It still does it pretty frequently and I don't know what else to do. Here is my Signal Strength...

103(b)

1-8 80 82 77 80 80 80 82 83
9-16 83 83 88 87 83 86 N/A N/A
17-24 85 N/A N/A N/A N/A 91 N/A N/A
25-32 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A

Signal Strength for 103(b) is 80%

It's all Greek to me but maybe some can tell me if I need to call them out again for alignment?


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## Radio Enginerd (Oct 5, 2006)

Cru Jones said:


> I've had pixelation issues with my HD channels, even before the latest rollout of channels. I've had DirecTV techs out here twice, once to align the dish and once to replace my HR20. It still does it pretty frequently and I don't know what else to do. Here is my Signal Strength...
> 
> 103(b)
> 
> ...


First off, quick apology to those that have PM'ed me. I had a busy day at my normal 9-5 and haven't been able to catch up on my PM's.

Points to clarify for those reporting drop outs on *new and old* HD channels...

The old HD channels come from 110 and 119.
The new HD channels come from 103b
Local HD channels come from 103a or 99b (depending on market)

If you're seeing dropouts on *all* HD channels with or without BBC's attached** then you need to look at your signal strengths on 110, 119, 103b AND whatever sat carries your HD locals. I'll post a link to a great HD local chart when I find it.

Paul Fitzgerald, another user on this board, made a great website that lists all the HD channels that DirecTV has, what format (MPEG2-OLD/Mpeg4-NEW) and what satellite they can be found on: http://www.digitalcaffeine.com/hd/

Note about the site: mouse over the channel numbers to get channel/sat information...

Feel free to post your signal strengths (110/119 AND 103b) and what part of the country you're in here and I'll be happy to give recommendation if you need to have an installer come out and pay you a visit.

** BBC's are the little gray boxes that are attached to the SAT TUNER inputs on your HR20, H20 or H21.


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## Radio Enginerd (Oct 5, 2006)

slubu said:


> 103(b):
> 
> 73 76 62 66 72 76 65 70
> 73 76 68 71 74 78 NA NA
> ...


Since they came and replaced your faulty gear do you notice less (if any) drop outs on the new HD channels?

As long as you aren't having an severe weather, these signal strengths are OK, but if you have good line of sight a installer should attempt to get signals closer to 80-90. That will give you considerably more head room when bad weather hits.


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## gully_foyle (Jan 18, 2007)

Radio Enginerd said:


> Irvine is in S. California, right? Just want to make sure I have your location right...
> 
> I think you could benifit from an alignment but I remain surprised that you're having intermittent drop outs/pixelization. Any odd weather?
> 
> ...


Actually, 75-85 is pretty much tops for Southern Cal, so it's not alignment. Flaky LNB would do it though.


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## Hunter707 (Jan 11, 2007)

I was having similar issues. Bad pixelation on the new HD channels and on CNN Headline News. It varied from annoying to virtually unwatcheable at times. I also had a problem whenever I rebooted the HR20 during the second phase where it had the progress bar it would keep switching to "searching for satellite signal" and back to the progress bar and I had the small blue window "Acquiring Guide Data" showing since Saturday.

While troubleshooting on my own I realized that I had bad signal strength on 103(b). A likely cause for the new HD channel problems. I called up and had them come out and do a realignment. After the realignment and replacement of some connectors and a new WB68, I am in the 90s on most and 70-80s on 103(b). The new HD channels seemed to be working pretty good.

However, CNN HN was still acting up. I did a reboot and still had the problem with the searching for satellite signal and the Acquiring Guide Data window. The Tech suggested that I try plugging the HR20 into a different wall outlet. After giving him a strange look, since I have it plugged into a pretty good UPS, I gave it a try. It worked. All of my channels are working and it no longer has problems downloading guide data. I have since moved the UPS to a different outlet and plugged the HR20 back into the UPS and everything is still working.

I have no explanation for this, but I just wanted to share my experience and suggest it as something else for people to try that are having similar problems.


Hunter


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## Radio Enginerd (Oct 5, 2006)

Hunter707 said:


> The Tech suggested that I try plugging the HR20 into a different wall outlet. After giving him a strange look, since I have it plugged into a pretty good UPS, I gave it a try. It worked. All of my channels are working and it no longer has problems downloading guide data. I have since moved the UPS to a different outlet and plugged the HR20 back into the UPS and everything is still working.
> 
> I have no explanation for this, but I just wanted to share my experience and suggest it as something else for people to try that are having similar problems.
> 
> Hunter


Good piece of information. I'm surprised to see that was what cleared up your problem. I lived in the SF BA for 20+ years and never thought it had "dirty power". Happy to hear it resolved your issue.


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## Vuce (Jun 29, 2006)

Radio Enginerd said:


> Feel free to post your signal strengths (110/119 AND 103b) and what part of the country you're in here and I'll be happy to give recommendation if you need to have an installer come out and pay you a visit.


Here are my readings.

110 - tuners 1 and 2 are both within 2 numbers of each other

1-8 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 96
9-16 N/A 92 N/A 97 N/A N/A N/A N/A
17-24 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
25/32 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A

119 - tuners 1 and 2 virtually identical

1-8 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
9-16 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
17-24 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 97 100 99
25-32 100 99 100 99 100 99 100 100

103 b - tuner 1

1-8 0 93 0 88 0 90 0 89
9-16 29 88 55 88 73 89 N/A N/A
17-24 83 N/A N/A N/A N/A 95 N/A N/A 
25-32 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A

103 b - tuner 2

1-8 62 94 57 89 63 91 53 89
9-16 29 89 57 88 73 90 N/A N/A
17-24 83 N/A N/A N/A N/A 95 N/A N/A 
25-32 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A

As I noted in a previous post a tech came out the other day and replaced the multiswitch, HD DVR and the BBCs.


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## Radio Enginerd (Oct 5, 2006)

Vuce said:


> 103 b - tuner 1
> 
> 1-8 0 93 0 88 0 90 0 89
> 9-16 29 88 55 88 73 89 N/A N/A
> ...


Vuce - Did that tech comment on your lack of odd TP's (the zero values) on 103b? 103b should not have zero values. N/A is ok but I'm almost certain you still have a problem and the only item that doesn't appear to have been replaced is the LNB on the dish.


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## kschriever (Sep 28, 2007)

Here are my transponder values:



101:

95 94 95 95 94 99 95 98
95 95 95 96 93 99 92 99
88 100 92 91 94 98 95 99
94 96 95 0 95 99 91 99

110:

NA NA NA NA NA NA NA 96
NA 94 NA 95 NA NA NA NA 
NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA
NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA

119:

NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA
NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA
NA NA NA NA NA 94 92 92
79 95 92 95 86 95 0 95

99(b):

100 73 99 78 92 94 NA NA
NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA
NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA
NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA

103(a):

97 83 0 96 95 83 NA NA
NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA
0 NA NA NA NA NA NA NA 
NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA

103(b):

88 75 86 75 88 77 88 81
89 80 89 82 89 82 NA NA
94 NA NA NA NA 85 NA NA
NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA

Looks to me like I should be golden, or nearly so... but I'm not.


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## Vuce (Jun 29, 2006)

Radio Enginerd said:


> Vuce - Did that tech comment on your lack of odd TP's (the zero values) on 103b? 103b should not have zero values. N/A is ok but I'm almost certain you still have a problem and the only item that doesn't appear to have been replaced is the LNB on the dish.


Yeah the tech said "wow, that is weird."


----------



## Radio Enginerd (Oct 5, 2006)

kschriever said:


> Here are my transponder values:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You're golden. 75-90 is good. That should leave you enough head room for rain but then again what do I know... I live in CA!


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## Radio Enginerd (Oct 5, 2006)

Vuce said:


> Yeah the tech said "wow, that is weird."


Yes, weird and not good is what I was thinking.

Is the HR20 your only HD rec and/or DVR? Wondering if you have anything to compare it to.

Really sounds like a bad LNB. There's actually a multi switch built into the LNB assembly and the signals you report lead me to believe you may have a problem there. Since you've had your main MS and BBC's replaced, I think you need another tech.


----------



## Vuce (Jun 29, 2006)

Radio Enginerd said:


> Yes, weird and not good is what I was thinking.
> 
> Is the HR20 your only HD rec and/or DVR? Wondering if you have anything to compare it to.
> 
> Really sounds like a bad LNB. There's actually a multi switch built into the LNB assembly and the signals you report lead me to believe you may have a problem there. Since you've had your main MS and BBC's replaced, I think you need another tech.


I have two HD DVRs. I just checked the other one. all signals are pretty strong. On the "other HD DVR" upstairs the even transponders on 103 b are between 85 and 95 signal strength. The odd transponders are between 65 and 75. And I have not had the 771 message coming up on that TV. Why would a bad LNB be affecting one but not the other?


----------



## Cru Jones (Aug 28, 2007)

One of my co-workers had a DirecTV tech out at his house this morning dealing with some HD issues and he recommended changing the setting on his HR20 to 720p instead of 1080i. He said it would fix pixelation problems but I'm thinking he meant an overall pixelated picture, not the intermittent pixelation and audio dropouts I've been getting. Anyways I haven't been home yet to try it but I was just wondering what you folks thought about that advice. I also read an article this morning in a Crutchfield magazine that recommended the same thing for action viewing like sporting events since the refresh rate is better on 720p than 1080i so maybe the tech isn't too far off in his advice?


----------



## Cru Jones (Aug 28, 2007)

The theory didn't work. Still major pixelation on ESPN, NFL, Discovery and more. No problems on Cinemax and other stations though. I don't understand.


----------



## Blitz68 (Apr 19, 2006)

slubu said:


> Ok, here are my 103(b) signals:
> 
> 1-8 74 77 63 69 74 77 63 69
> 9-16 74 77 67 70 74 79 NA NA
> ...


Yup. BBC's

They can be intermiitent I have found when they are flacky.

My signals were in the 90's and getting major pixalation on one turner and not the other.


----------



## k j (Jul 13, 2007)

I'm thinking I need a service call but perhaps someone can confirm before I call. Here are the signals for 101 which I'm most concerned about (I'm in the Twin Cities in Minnesota):

50 75 55 0 50 91 54 89
49 76 51 92 45 91 47 93
45 0 44 95 0 92 0 89
0 0 47 0 0 88 0 91

That seems wrong, no? Same for each tuner roughly.

Other satellites seem fine except maybe 103B

63 65 63 63 61 62 60 61
62 61 62 61 63 63 NA NA
66 67

Not terrible I guess but I've had issues with rain lately. I just moved here and I've never had as many signal issues as I do now and I've been with DTV since 1997. So is my 101 completely messed up and should I complain about 103B as well? Thanks for the help guys.


----------



## Matt9876 (Oct 11, 2007)

k j said:


> Other satellites seem fine except maybe 103B
> 
> 63 65 63 63 61 62 60 61
> 62 61 62 61 63 63 NA NA
> ...


You need a service call any number below 65 on 103(b) can cause glitches and drop out of the HD channels.

Most slimline dishes can get signals in the 90s, 70s-80s for side car dishes.

Do you have any trees that might be blocking 101-103 zone ?

Matt


----------



## k j (Jul 13, 2007)

There is a tall tree I'm shooting over but the installer thought he got over it quite easily. Perhaps not. He left his card. I'll give him a call. He seemed quite good and said he'd stop over if I ever had a problem. I'm guessing 101 is really messed up.


----------



## Radio Enginerd (Oct 5, 2006)

Vuce said:


> I have two HD DVRs. I just checked the other one. all signals are pretty strong. On the "other HD DVR" upstairs the even transponders on 103 b are between 85 and 95 signal strength. The odd transponders are between 65 and 75. And I have not had the 771 message coming up on that TV. Why would a bad LNB be affecting one but not the other?


That's a good question.

It depends on how the outputs of that LNB are wired to your multi switch. As others have suggested, it still could be a bad BBC but I wouldn't let the tech leave until you've confirmed good 80+ signal from 103b on all HD receivers.

If I remember correctly, today is the day so please report back and best of luck.


----------



## slubu (Oct 9, 2007)

Radio, the tech is supposed to come any minute now. Anything specific I should alert him to? Are my 110 and other #'s decent? There are a lot of NA's involved...


----------



## Matt9876 (Oct 11, 2007)

NAs don't count, numbers below 70 are bad !

For 103(b) and 101.

Matt


----------



## Radio Enginerd (Oct 5, 2006)

slubu said:


> Radio, the tech is supposed to come any minute now. Anything specific I should alert him to? Are my 110 and other #'s decent? There are a lot of NA's involved...


Don't worry about NA's

Let me review your numbers real quick. Get right back to you.


----------



## Radio Enginerd (Oct 5, 2006)

slubu said:


> Radio, the tech is supposed to come any minute now. Anything specific I should alert him to? Are my 110 and other #'s decent? There are a lot of NA's involved...


Ok, had to find the post.

103(b):

73 76 62 66 72 76 65 70
73 76 68 71 74 78 NA NA
70 NA NA NA NA 63 NA NA
NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA

Some fine tuning should be able to bring those up to the 80+ range. The rest of your signals look pretty good. I suggest you write them all down on a note pad before hand and compare after he/she comes down from fine tuning. If your line of sight is good (meaning no trees) hold him/her to getting signals 80+. He/she should be able to obtain that. And make sure to tip for the extra hard work.


----------



## Radio Enginerd (Oct 5, 2006)

Matt9876 said:


> NAs don't count, numbers below 70 are bad !
> 
> For 103(b) and 101.
> 
> Matt


70's on the Ku band (the frequency band Sat 101 is using) are far more forgiving. You want to get those Ka signals (103b) as high as possible since they are subject to greater fade when bad weather hits.


----------



## Matt9876 (Oct 11, 2007)

I just checked the 101 Sat on my system " Something I haven't done in awhile " showing 3 low transponders. 

#4=58
#12=43
#20=47

all the rest are 90s-100. 

103(b) are 88-to high 90s.

So just get the highest numbers you can.

Matt


----------



## Cru Jones (Aug 28, 2007)

Blitz68 said:


> Yup. BBC's
> 
> They can be intermiitent I have found when they are flacky.
> 
> My signals were in the 90's and getting major pixalation on one turner and not the other.


I have like 2 or 3 extra B-Band Converters laying around. Should I try and swap them out and see if that gets rid of the pixelation problems? Would a flaky BBC cause the problem on some HD channels but not others?


----------



## slubu (Oct 9, 2007)

The technician came and left, here is a summary of what he did if it helps others:

First thing he did was realign the dish. He got a better signal no doubt. I didn't have time to write down the #'s, but my 103(b) is now in the 80s/70s rather than 70s/60s. He told me the last guy did not "center" the dish, but rather focused to get strong signals from only 1 or 2 satellites.

Luckily, the pixelization was present and ongoing throughout his troubleshooting. So the alignment got a stronger signal, but still pixelization. Next, he swapped out the b-band converters. Still pixelization. Next, he reset/formatted my HR20 (lost all my programming!). Still pixelization.

Finally, he forced a software update and replaced the LNB. The pixelization stopped. I'm not sure if it is fixed now, or it just stopped for the time being, but that combo worked. He replaced the LNB with the older manufacturer, WNC, and said these tend to work better. 

If I can answer any other questions I would be happy to. I'll try it out this weekend and see if I still get any trouble or this is now fixed. The guy was very good, he basically went through each step until we were both satisfied.


----------



## Cru Jones (Aug 28, 2007)

slubu said:


> The technician came and left, here is a summary of what he did if it helps others:
> 
> First thing he did was realign the dish. He got a better signal no doubt. I didn't have time to write down the #'s, but my 103(b) is now in the 80s/70s rather than 70s/60s. He told me the last guy did not "center" the dish, but rather focused to get strong signals from only 1 or 2 satellites.
> 
> ...


How do you force a software update? Do you think it was the software update or replacing the LNB that stopped the pixelation?


----------



## Canis Lupus (Oct 16, 2006)

Cru Jones said:


> How do you force a software update? Do you think it was the software update or replacing the LNB that stopped the pixelation?


It's more likely a reinstall of the software rather than an update, and IMO it is much more likely it was the LNB. BTW it was a little harsh of the guy to reformat the HR-20


----------



## slubu (Oct 9, 2007)

Canis Lupus said:


> It's more likely a reinstall of the software rather than an update, and IMO it is much more likely it was the LNB. BTW it was a little harsh of the guy to reformat the HR-20


Yeah that was hard for me. It was a reluctant yes, but at this point I rather have a fix than some recorded shows. I pretty much watched everything I wanted to...


----------



## Radio Enginerd (Oct 5, 2006)

slubu said:


> Finally, he forced a software update and replaced the LNB. The pixelization stopped. I'm not sure if it is fixed now, or it just stopped for the time being, but that combo worked. He replaced the LNB with the older manufacturer, WNC, and said these tend to work better.
> 
> If I can answer any other questions I would be happy to. I'll try it out this weekend and see if I still get any trouble or this is now fixed. The guy was very good, he basically went through each step until we were both satisfied.


I am sorry to hear that he reformatted your HR20. That, along with forcing software, did NOT fix your problem, it was most certainly a bad LNB.

The WNC LNB is a good one, that's the same make/model I have. Please tell me he realigned your dish AFTER installing the new LNB?


----------



## slubu (Oct 9, 2007)

Radio Enginerd said:


> I am sorry to hear that he reformatted your HR20. That, along with forcing software, did NOT fix your problem, it was most certainly a bad LNB.
> 
> The WNC LNB is a good one, that's the same make/model I have. Please tell me he realigned your dish AFTER installing the new LNB?


Nope, he didn't. He didn't change the position of the dish though, he only took out the end part (what I presume is the LNB, the thing with the white caps on it) and put in the new one. I have it bolted into the wall, so he would have to loosen the nuts to realign it. He re-checked the signal strength however and it was solid.

Hopefully it is fixed, not counting my chickens yet. I've gone days before without any problems only to have it go pixel crazy yet again. I would imagine it's the LNB though.


----------



## Radio Enginerd (Oct 5, 2006)

slubu said:


> Nope, he didn't. He didn't change the position of the dish though, he only took out the end part (what I presume is the LNB, the thing with the white caps on it) and put in the new one. I have it bolted into the wall, so he would have to loosen the nuts to realign it. He re-checked the signal strength however and it was solid.
> 
> Hopefully it is fixed, not counting my chickens yet. I've gone days before without any problems only to have it go pixel crazy yet again. I would imagine it's the LNB though.


No reason to be concerned if you're getting good signal but it's customary and a good practice to align a dish after you've changed the LNB no matter how tight the dish is bolted down. Bottom line is your signal is good now so congrats!

Happy to hear you're up and running and keep us updated if that pixelization comes back.


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## slubu (Oct 9, 2007)

Radio Enginerd said:


> No reason to be concerned if you're getting good signal but it's customary and a good practice to align a dish after you've changed the LNB no matter how tight the dish is bolted down. Bottom line is your signal is good now so congrats!
> 
> Happy to hear you're up and running and keep us updated if that pixelization comes back.


Will do, thanks for all your help - very appreciated.


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## Radio Enginerd (Oct 5, 2006)

slubu said:


> Will do, thanks for all your help - very appreciated.


No problem. Hey and welcome to DBS Talk. 
:welcome_s


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## Radio Enginerd (Oct 5, 2006)

Cru Jones said:


> How do you force a software update? Do you think it was the software update or replacing the LNB that stopped the pixelation?


 Before you start forcing updates, take a look at *THIS* forum. You'll find some helpful information.

*THIS THREAD* is also very helpful in getting started with the CE process/testing.

Forcing a software update is easy. Restart your receiver (by menu reset if possible) and type in 0 2 4 6 8 when you see the first blue welcome screen .


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## Cru Jones (Aug 28, 2007)

Slubu, were you having pixelation on every HD channel or just some?

Like right now, I'm watching FoodTV in HD and no problems. I turn to ESPNHD and it's unwatchable. Same with NFL and most HDNET channels.


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## elove (Aug 17, 2007)

slubu said:


> The technician came and left, here is a summary of what he did if it helps others:
> 
> First thing he did was realign the dish. He got a better signal no doubt. I didn't have time to write down the #'s, but my 103(b) is now in the 80s/70s rather than 70s/60s. He told me the last guy did not "center" the dish, but rather focused to get strong signals from only 1 or 2 satellites.
> 
> ...


Sorry for the dumb question, but what is an LNB?

Thanks!


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## Radio Enginerd (Oct 5, 2006)

elove said:


> Sorry for the dumb question, but what is an LNB?
> 
> Thanks!


The LNB is the funny looking part that extends out in front of the surface of your dish..

Not a dumb question whatsoever. Keep em' coming. 

This is an LNB from an AT9 (5 LNB) DirecTV Dish.


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## slubu (Oct 9, 2007)

Cru Jones said:


> Slubu, were you having pixelation on every HD channel or just some?
> 
> Like right now, I'm watching FoodTV in HD and no problems. I turn to ESPNHD and it's unwatchable. Same with NFL and most HDNET channels.


No rhyme or reason other than it was HD. Wasn't specific to one or another.


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## Vuce (Jun 29, 2006)

Radio Enginerd said:


> That's a good question.
> 
> It depends on how the outputs of that LNB are wired to your multi switch. As others have suggested, it still could be a bad BBC but I wouldn't let the tech leave until you've confirmed good 80+ signal from 103b on all HD receivers.
> 
> If I remember correctly, today is the day so please report back and best of luck.


The tech came on Saturday. The supervisor came with the tech to oversee and advise. Previously they replaced my HD DVR, the bbc's and the multiswitch but the low signal/771 error message still popped up. My signal on 103 b was something like 0 80 0 76 0 etc. They replaced the LNB and all the readings on 103b are in the mid 90's. I hope that takes care of everything. Thanks to Radio Enginerd and others on this issue. I'll keep reading for updates.


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## kschriever (Sep 28, 2007)

I had a visit yesterday from a DirecTV supervisor... I think I got lucky there. We explored LOS issues and there didn't appear to be any, and reviewed the status of the BBCs, which were working properly. Ultimately, he replaced my dish and sidecar-type LNBs with a Slimline, forced a software upgrade to my HR20-700, and tweaked the alignment. In several hours of subsequent watching thus far, the pixelation and dropouts didn't resurface, so I have my fingers crossed although I'm a few days away from full confidence, I think. The gentleman did a GREAT job of maxing my signal strength... these may get "best of forum", or nearly so!:


101:

97 96 96 95 93 99 95 98
96 96 97 96 96 100 96 100
95 100 96 92 96 100 96 100
95 97 96 0 97 99 95 100

110:

NA NA NA NA NA NA NA 95
NA 95 NA 96 NA NA NA NA 
NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA
NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA

119:

NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA
NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA
NA NA NA NA NA 96 95 97
88 98 97 97 95 97 0 99

99(b):

100 86 99 88 96 98 NA NA
NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA
NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA
NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA

103(a):

97 93 0 99 95 89 NA NA
NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA
0 NA NA NA NA NA NA NA 
NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA

103(b):

95 96 94 95 93 95 94 95
95 95 95 97 95 96 NA NA
98 NA NA NA NA 98 NA NA
NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA

He managed to get me 5-10 point bumps on numerous transponders, but the best was the new 10(b)... where I once had several readings in the mid-70s my low there is now a 93, and in many cases we got 10-20 point improvements, with TS2 going from 75 to 96.

He did say that over the last month there've been lots of "phantom" reception issues not directly traceable to any particular likely cause, and that the installers tend to think that there are transmission issues on the DirecTV end.

More later in the week on whether this was a resolution or not.


----------



## Steady Teddy (Jan 23, 2007)

I've also been getting intermittent total signal loss of all the new HD channels, plus MPEG4 locals. It happens at least a few times a day. Total pixelation and video lockup/freezing occur. No problem at all on the MPEG2 channels.

It's either all or nothing: picture looks perfect one second, then gone the next.

My RG6 cable is about 100 ft. to both my HR20s. Please tell me that's not too long.

103b:

*1-8*: 92 73 89 74 88 76 86 76
*9-16*: 88 77 86 78 88 79 
*17-24*: 92 92


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## Blitz68 (Apr 19, 2006)

Cru Jones said:


> I'm watching FoodTV in HD and no problems. I turn to ESPNHD and it's unwatchable. Same with NFL and most HDNET channels.


Did you swap out the BBC on the tuner with the problem?


----------



## JDubbs413 (Sep 4, 2007)

For those of you having trouble with pixelation on your HD channels (and have an external multiswitch that is grounded) try unplugging the grounding just to see if that is what is causing the pixelation. That was the problem in my situation, a bad grounding.


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

JDubbs413 said:


> For those of you having trouble with pixelation on your HD channels (and have an external multiswitch that is grounded) try unplugging the grounding just to see if that is what is causing the pixelation. That was the problem in my situation, a bad grounding.


Please note my questions for you at post #4 in the thread you originally posted this observation here.


----------



## newsposter (Nov 13, 2003)

bribecka said:


> You might be seeing the same issue I had. The dropouts/pixelization were actually happening on only tuner 2 with HD channels. That would explain why sometimes it's fine, other times it's horrible. I was convinced it was my DVR (HR20-700), but turns out the LNB on the slimline dish was bad. The tech replaced that LNB and I've been perfect ever since.
> 
> Good luck!


WOW am i glad i read this thread...this is exactly what's happening to me. here is the thread with very extensive testings I did. tuner 2 is unreliable on 110 and one of the 103s

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=104691

I hope it's the LNB, i like my new hr20 and dont want a refurb after just one week


----------



## newsposter (Nov 13, 2003)

not to put a blanket on anyone's high readings, but i learned that i had to check tuner 2 for all the birds to realize I may be having a problem with tuner 2. So just a suggestion to check both tuners when you are posting signals. My posting link above may not look pretty but i think it's pointing towards a tuner issue but i guess we find out saturday. ( hope lnb though..fingers crossed)


----------



## slubu (Oct 9, 2007)

Absolutely no problems with pixelization since my service call. I think it was a faulty LNB.


----------



## Steady Teddy (Jan 23, 2007)

I have two HR20s (both in the same room) and three H20s (each in separate rooms). I have had intermittent pixelation & signal loss occur on all units, but not at the same time. I could lose the signal on both HR20s, have pixelation on one of the H20s, and still get a picture on the other two H20s. It's been really bad the last few days, at least a few times a day. It's been raining lightly today, nothing too heavy, but the problem happens during overcast and dry weather too. 

It varies on all units but it's worse on the HR20s. I wonder if that's because they have the longest connection (100ft RG6) and I only have the WB68 multiswitch and really need the WB616. Or a bad LNB maybe? I'm just trying to figure out why I don't lose signal on ALL units when it happens. 

D* is scheduled to come out Thursday. They told me it will be hard to determine the problem if it doesn't happen when the Tech shows up. So what is the meaning of the word "intermittent" and what am I supposed to do, have the tech live at my house until I lose the signal again? 

Here is an average reading of my signal strength. During a signal loss I might see a few 0s in 1-8. 
103b:

1-8: 95 74 93 75 92 79 89 79
9-14: 91 79 90 80 91 80
17 & 22: 96 95


----------



## newsposter (Nov 13, 2003)

teddy, this may or not work but i took pics with my digital cam of the zero readings on tuner 2 for my 110 and also of a movie playing on channel 74 and it being all streaky. 

ill let you know how my intermittent problem is diagnosed after saturday


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## Radio Enginerd (Oct 5, 2006)

slubu said:


> Absolutely no problems with pixelization since my service call. I think it was a faulty LNB.


That is great to hear. Thanks for the update!


----------



## Steady Teddy (Jan 23, 2007)

I posted my problem at the D* forums and someone named "texasbrit", who I assume is a D* tech or engineer (?) replied:



> steadyteddy - it's not an alignment problem, since your signals are OK when they are there. Since it is happening on all your receivers, that rules out the receivers, the BBCs and the cables to the receivers from the multiswitch.
> Which multiswitch do you have - is it the Zinwell WB68 or WB616?
> If you do have the WB68 or WB616, bypass the multiswitch just for testing - connect one of your H20s directly to the dish using a barrel connector to bridge the gap. Does the problem go away? If not, try another cable just to make sure it's not the cable. If the problem is still there, you almost certainly have a faulty LNB.
> Post back with your results


Um...so what is a barrel connector?


----------



## MikeR (Oct 6, 2006)

Steady Teddy said:


> I posted my problem at the D* forums and someone named "texasbrit", who I assume is a D* tech or engineer (?) replied:
> 
> Um...so what is a barrel connector?


http://www.shopatc.com/Image/Shop/Product/img_643_Xlarge.jpg

Basically a way to connect your satellite output cabling to the RG-6 entering your home. Anyone that uses only 4 tuners max. typically uses barrel connectors (direct connection)

texasbrit is a member here as well.


I'd bet on a bad connection at the dish or LNB.


----------



## marknga (Dec 11, 2005)

I just started having this problem after the latest "additions" this week. They may just be coindence but now on "Tuner 1" Sat 103b all my readings will vary from 60-70 down to 20-30. Severe pixallation, searching for sat 771 message. I have a Hr20-700 (3 other non HD receivers) and I do have the service plan so I'm calling DirectTV to come out. 

Mark

(BTW, I live in Middle Georgia)


----------



## Steady Teddy (Jan 23, 2007)

MikeR said:


> http://www.shopatc.com/Image/Shop/Product/img_643_Xlarge.jpg
> 
> Basically a way to connect your satellite output cabling to the RG-6 entering your home. Anyone that uses only 4 tuners max. typically uses barrel connectors (direct connection)
> 
> ...


Alright thanks. I'll wait till the tech comes tomorrow and *suggest* he look at the dish first, unless he dicides to check that first anyway.


----------



## Steady Teddy (Jan 23, 2007)

Is it true that if the LNB is bad, there would be no signal AT ALL, there is no in between? No *intermittent* pixelation or loss of signal? The is what the D* tech is telling me.


----------



## dcrews (Sep 15, 2007)

The guy who came out and looked at mine said the exact same thing..


----------



## bslowey (Dec 27, 2005)

I am having the same problems with the new HD channels since Monday's rollout.


----------



## Steady Teddy (Jan 23, 2007)

The tech said that the dish mount was very loose and the original installation was poorly done. He did not replace any equiptment. What I don't understand is if it was loose, why wouldn't I lose the signal on ALL channels intermittently, and not just 103. 

Anyway, I haven't had any pixelation or loss of signal for almost two days now. Weather conditions were very calm yesterday. Unless it happens again, I'll assume it was indeed poorly mounted...


----------



## kschriever (Sep 28, 2007)

I've been trouble-free since Sunday's tech visit. All that was done was dish/LNB replacement with a Slimline and realignment, and a forced software update.

Related to earlier notes re forcing upgrades, I am noticing that channel transition has gotten slower and clunkier, with a weird partial green screen popping up between channels on occasion... maybe the software wasn't ready for prime time?


----------



## newsposter (Nov 13, 2003)

Steady Teddy said:


> Is it true that if the LNB is bad, there would be no signal AT ALL, there is no in between? No *intermittent* pixelation or loss of signal? The is what the D* tech is telling me.


Interesting, then it may not be my Lnb. I have 110 issues on tuner 2 but the other birds are mostly OK. so can a tuner differentiate between the different satellites and be bad on just a single one?


----------



## elove (Aug 17, 2007)

Do I need my dish realigned or tweaked. Maybe this is causing my local MPEG 4 HD channel problems. Here are my settings:

Here are my settings: Azimuth 224 degrees, Elevation 39 degrees, Tilt 64 degrees.

103(a) 

Tuner 1 89 79 0 98 89 83
Tuner 2 90 81 0 98 88 82

99(b)

Tuner 1 73 88 80 89 0 0
Tuner 2 72 89 0 89 0 0


----------



## litzdog911 (Jun 23, 2004)

elove said:


> Do I need my dish realigned or tweaked. Maybe this is causing my local MPEG 4 HD channel problems. Here are my settings:
> 
> Here are my settings: Azimuth 224 degrees, Elevation 39 degrees, Tilt 64 degrees.
> 
> ...


Those readings look great. Your local HD channels are probably on 103(a), hence the higher readings than 99(b). What are your readings on 103(b) -- the new national HD channel satellite?


----------



## Steady Teddy (Jan 23, 2007)

Steady Teddy said:


> Unless it happens again, I'll assume it was indeed poorly mounted...


Well it has happened again (pixelation but no loss of audio or total loss of signal) so I guess I can rule out a poorly mounted dish. I don't know what to believe now. The tech sounded like he knew what he was talking about (as if I could tell a difference ) so if I don't have a bad LNB then it's back to square one.

Could thick clouds be a cause? And if so, why only for 103? It's not going to help to request another service call if the problem doesn't occur when they're here.


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## Steady Teddy (Jan 23, 2007)

MicroTech came back out and swapped the AT9 with a Slimline. He gave me no argument at all. Hopefully this will be the end of it and I can record MPEG without worrying about it locking up. [Fingers crossed]


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## techrep (Sep 15, 2007)

Steady Teddy said:


> MicroTech came back out and swapped the AT9 with a Slimline. He gave me no argument at all. Hopefully this will be the end of it and I can record MPEG without worrying about it locking up. [Fingers crossed]


I got a good feeling about this. !devil12: Shoulder :angel:


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## SParker (Apr 27, 2002)

techrep said:


> I got a good feeling about this. !devil12: Shoulder :angel:


So far so good for me and my signals are all uniform.


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## techrep (Sep 15, 2007)

SParker said:


> So far so good for me and my signals are all uniform.


I got an even better feeling about that! !devil12: Shoulder :angel:


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## dcrews (Sep 15, 2007)

Well they came out yesterday and replaced my hr20, and it's still doing it, but it was kinda rainy out yesterday. 

We'll see what happens tonight when I get home...


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## techrep (Sep 15, 2007)

dcrews said:


> Well they came out yesterday and replaced my hr20, and it's still doing it, but it was kinda rainy out yesterday.
> 
> We'll see what happens tonight when I get home...


"Psssst," look at post #104. Your results could be similar.


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## Skins Fan (Sep 18, 2007)

One whole day and the AT-9 swap to the slimline is working for me. 

It is raining here now and everything is solid.


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## techrep (Sep 15, 2007)

Skins Fan said:


> One whole day and the AT-9 swap to the slimline is working for me.
> 
> It is raining here now and everything is solid.


"Pssst" dcrews,

Or like this one.


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## dcrews (Sep 15, 2007)

well that'd be nice if they actually replaced the dish like I asked them to..

instead they just replaced the hr20


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## techrep (Sep 15, 2007)

dcrews said:


> well that'd be nice if they actually replaced the dish like I asked them to..
> 
> instead they just replaced the hr20


Ask (call D*) them again. Tell them that you are sure and be persistent. Make sure that the dish is listed on the workorder.


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## dcrews (Sep 15, 2007)

I'm on the phone on hold as we speak..

ooh it's ringing...


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## dcrews (Sep 15, 2007)

appointment set for Thurs. for replacement of LNB and re-align..

*crosses fingers*


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## techrep (Sep 15, 2007)

dcrews said:


> appointment set for Thurs. for replacement of LNB and re-align..
> 
> *crosses fingers*


The odds are in your favor and it is the only way to know for sure.


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## Skins Fan (Sep 18, 2007)

dcrews said:


> appointment set for Thurs. for replacement of LNB and re-align..
> 
> *crosses fingers*


You will be so happy you will think the mast is the LNB arm. I will put money on your problems being fixed with the new dish. Oh, if you can, be there when they install your dish and make sure they check that the mast "plumb" or level. Just don't take it for granted. I call it "being on the bubble". Normally they will just come and take the old dish off and slide the new dish on the mast without checking. Let us know how you make out.


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## dcrews (Sep 15, 2007)

I had them put on the work order to re-check alignment.. And yes, I'll be there


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## Skins Fan (Sep 18, 2007)

Skins Fan said:


> You will be so happy you will think the mast is the LNB arm.


That statement was just a poor "in house" joke for techrep's enjoyment. Just ignore me, I'm just overly excited about my new dish and stable TV.:grin:


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## dcrews (Sep 15, 2007)

Update: 

Tech just left, and he replaced the LNB and switch.. And he re-peaked the dish.

So far, so good..


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## SParker (Apr 27, 2002)

dcrews said:


> Update:
> 
> Tech just left, and he replaced the LNB and switch.. And he re-peaked the dish.
> 
> So far, so good..


Woohoo! Hopefully another for the slimline fixed it camp!


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## jtn (Oct 18, 2007)

Or is the Slimline the only available install from contractors? Unless you buy it from a reseller (AT-9).


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## SParker (Apr 27, 2002)

D* discontinued the AT9 so I'm not sure why you'd want one.


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## jtn (Oct 18, 2007)

SParker said:


> D* discontinued the AT9 so I'm not sure why you'd want one.


The AT-9 appears to be better during inclement weather. I continue to get Ka signals in storms while neighbor with Slimline can't, he has to get OTA via antenna as backup.

Many poster is this forum say with little sprinkles they get problems with Slimline. I don't with AT-9.


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## Skins Fan (Sep 18, 2007)

jtn said:


> The AT-9 appears to be better during inclement weather. I continue to get Ka signals in storms while neighbor with Slimline can't, he has to get OTA via antenna as backup.
> 
> Many poster is this forum say with little sprinkles they get problems with Slimline. I don't with AT-9.


Yes, some (wouldn't say many) have reported problems with the slimline. As I read follow ups on some of those reports, installations and alignments have been the problem, not the type of dish. I hesitate to throw this out but here goes, at this point, there may be more Slimlines out there than AT-9s, at least more being installed, hence more problems being reported. My recently installed slimline had no problems with the dark, cloudy, consistant rain here in my location the past 2 days. I did see some pixilization last night. I was curious, switched to the antenna, and was getting the same thing there. I went back to the *D locals and from 8p until 11p, I could count on 4 fingers the number of times I saw a very quick, almost unoticable pixilization. With the AT-9, I would never have been able to watch the *D HD locals as long as I have the past 2 days. I have never read any conclusive (technical ) report on any forum, that the AT-9 is better w/rain fade. Maybe there is proof out there, I just have not seen it, close but not conclusive. Maybe somebody will post it on here.:nono:


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## Steady Teddy (Jan 23, 2007)

I was told by a tech that many slimlines, those that were installed before the new HD channels launched, were not done properly. He said he had a lot of service calls that required realignment. Take that for what it's worth.

After using the AT9 for one year, I'll take my chances with the slimline.


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## SParker (Apr 27, 2002)

I'd rather have rare rain fades with the slimline than I would constant 771's on clear days with the AT9..


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## mangusta1969 (Oct 11, 2007)

I have a new 5 LNB Slimline Antenna/HR20 installation, but I am still having frequent problems with reception of local HD stations in the Reno/Carson City, Nevada area (zip is 89703). These problems are occurring at night, under crystal clear weather conditions. Daytime reception seems to be okay on the same HD local channels

Looking at this very informative thread, my overall transponder readings seem to be pretty good (mid 80s to high 90s), but I don't know which transponders/satellites are used for my local HD stations. Is there a web resource/url that will help me with this information so that I can check received signal strength on the transponders used for my local HD stations?

I am also puzzled a bit by some zero signal strengths on the 99(b) satellite. For this satellite, I have the following numbers:

TP 1-8: 97 0 98 0 98 0 N/A N/A

My signal strengths for both of the tuners in my HR20 DVR on this satellite are the same. I have noticed that some forum members have non zero readings on all six of the active transponders for this satellite. Are these zero readings normal for the even transponders on this satellite? 

FYI, I also have one H20 receiver, 4 standard receivers, and a Zinwell WB68 multi-switch as part of my installation.

Many thanks to all of the helpful experts on this site.


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

You shouldn't be concerned. All of the 103(a) and 99(b) tp's you see in the signal strength panels for these Spaceway 1 and 2 satellites are local HD spot beams. People will get different readings, depending upon where they are geographically. As long as you have 1 or 2 tp's in the 90's on one of these two satellites, you're dish and its alignment are usually not a problem.

Many people have frequent pixelation/audio issues with their HD locals. Some are national network problems, some are problems with the local conversion and re-transmission to D*. It's a complicated issue, since there are many links in the chain.


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## mangusta1969 (Oct 11, 2007)

K4SMX said:


> You shouldn't be concerned. All of the 103(a) and 99(b) tp's you see in the signal strength panels for these Spaceway 1 and 2 satellites are local HD spot beams. People will get different readings, depending upon where they are geographically. As long as you have 1 or 2 tp's in the 90's on one of these two satellites, you're dish and its alignment are usually not a problem.
> 
> Many people have frequent pixelation/audio issues with their HD locals. Some are national network problems, some are problems with the local conversion and re-transmission to D*. It's a complicated issue, since there are many links in the chain.


Thanks for your thoughts, but having no HD reception on ABC, CBS, NBC, and Fox locals simultaneously indicates to me that there is a DirectTV equipment problem at my end or there is a DirectTV uplink problem at their end, not with local conversions from 4 different TV station sources.

Thanks for the information on the spot beam transponder zeroes varying from location to location. Unfortunately, I have no possibility of HD reception from installing an outdoor antenna. Getting HD locals from DirectTV was a major factor in selecting DTV over DishNetwork. I just hope DTV can deliver them reliably. I guess I will place a service call for my new installation if local HD performance does not improve within a few days. I have already had two installation visits in the last 3 weeks, with lots of major headwork errors occurring on the first installation.


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

There's a big difference between "frequent problems with reception" on HD locals and "no HD reception" on any of them simultaneously. Are those 99(b) readings you provided taken when you have no HD locals or taken some other time?


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## Skins Fan (Sep 18, 2007)

I am suspect of his readings on the 99b. Something seems weird about them ie almost 100 on the odds and 0 on the evens. I don't believe I have seen any posted readings for the 99b, including mine, that don't get a small reading on the other TPs. Also the high readings on the odds seem high---not that some others might have some high readings as well. I only have a high of 88 on 99b TP 3, which I believe is my spot beam and I don't have problems. His readings are what you see when, and I probably sound like I am starting a mantra, the mast is not level.:hurah:


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## PeaceOfMind (Sep 14, 2006)

I paid for and installed the powered multiswitch(WB616) and that is the last that I have seen of my pixelation and audio drop out problem....I can even watch Directv when it rains.....haven't been able to do that, since 1994, when I signed with Directv. This may not solve everyone's problem but it solved mine. Directv would not issue me a credit for the powered multiswitch but I don't have to call Directv, once a month, to ask to get the pixelation and audio problem solved. Sometimes, it is left up to the consumer to solve the problem....the Directv insurance and service calls are also good options.


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## mangusta1969 (Oct 11, 2007)

K4SMX said:


> There's a big difference between "frequent problems with reception" on HD locals and "no HD reception" on any of them simultaneously. Are those 99(b) readings you provided taken when you have no HD locals or taken some other time?


Stew,

When the very faulty installation that I had on 10/6/07 was repaired on 10/17/07, I verified that I had HD reception on all of the locals that were transmitting in HD during the late afternoon/early evening. But my HD local reception seems to have degraded substantially since then. It is basically unwatchable on all 4 Reno, NV locals at night and is now spotty during the day. The antenna mounting seems firmly anchored and has the slimline dish extra brace installed.

To answer your question about the 99 satellite, those readings were taken at the same time that I did not have any local HD reception. However, after a little more research it seems that my HD locals are delivered via spot beams from the 119 satellite. Is this correct?

Here are my H20 satellite 119 transponder readings (no current HD local programs are being broadcast in mid-afternoon):

TP 17-24 n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a 90 93 88
TP 25-32 0-94 87 93 87 94 87 91 90

Transponder 25 is sort of suspicious to me, since it is fluctuating between 0 and 94, with no readings in between these numbers. However, transponder 25/sat 119 readings may have nothing to do with my HD local reception problems.

BTW, I just checked my second HD receiver (an HR20); it has essentially the same satellite 119 transponder readings as the H20 readings noted above. The HR20 has all RG6 cabling going to it (multiswitch to antenna and multiswitch to receiver); the H20 receiver has an existing 100-120 foot length of RG59 cable between it and the Zinwell multiswitch.

If anyone knows of a url or has information which shows the satellite and transponder mappings to local HD channels for Reno Nevada, I would appreciate that information. The local HD channels are 2, 4, 8, and 11 for this area.

Since Skins Fan just commented on my 99b satellite readings, I just re-confirmed them as follows:

TP 1-8: 96 0 98 0 98 0 n/a n/a
all other transponders are n/a on this satellite

Remember, my antenna is pretty far to the west of the east coast, so my readings may be pretty different than the east coast readings if these are all spot beam transponders on satellited 99(b).

As of now, I have a technician visit scheduled for 10/29/07; I will let everyone know what is discovered during that visit.


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## Skins Fan (Sep 18, 2007)

mangusta, I think your SD locals come in on the 119, the 99b would have your HD. That is how it is here in Maryland. I also have been looking for a spot beam and TP map for the 99 and I don't think there is one yet. If there is, someone on here will tell us. I had heard somewhere that our spot beam for the D.C. area was 99b tps 3. Not sure that is correct. Maybe you will have a good tech on Monday that will figure it out. Think positive, things usually get fixed.


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## mangusta1969 (Oct 11, 2007)

Skins Fan,

Thanks for the post about the Reno NV SD locals being on the 119 satellite and your thoughts that the Reno NV HD locals are on the 99(b) satellite. I think you are right in your assumptions. I am still looking for definitive information on the transponder and satellite mapping for the HD locals.

This link (from the DirecTV Programming Forum on dbstalk.com) shows that the Reno NV SD locals are carried on the 119 satellite, but doesn't provide any specific channel by channel transponder information or any information on where the HD locals are carried:

web site: hr20.dbstalk.com/html/DTV_LIL_CITY.html

I currently have good reception of 3 HD local channels (2, 4, and 11) with some evening news programs. At this time, my 99(b) satellite transponder readings are as follows:

TP 1-8: 96 0 98 0 98 0 n/a n/a

The next time I have severe pixelization on my HD channels, I will check on the 99(b) satellite transponder readings. Thanks for your timely help.

Hopefully the third installation technician visit on Monday will be the charm. I suspect they need to clean up their installation act rapidly or we will be facing greatly increased subscription rates. Three visits to get a working DTV installation in one house is ridiculous.


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

You weren't entirely clear on this, but I gather you're saying you're having this problem with both the HR20 and the H20.

100' of RG59 to the multi-switch, huh? I think you're gonna need a polarity locker on that WB68. There are posters who have fixed these type problems who had only 60' of RG6. You can get one here. Alternatively, you could replace the WB68 with a WB616 powered multi-switch (as PeaceofMind suggested), which costs more money, but gives you a lot more receiver connections.

It appears that your signal strengths are OK, even at the end of 100' of possibly otherwise questionable RG59, but I think you're losing signaling voltage by the time you get to the dish from _all_ of your cables, if you're having this problem on both HD receivers.


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

BTW, it would be worth your time to re-tighten all the connections with a 7/16" wrench on your multi-switch and grounding block(s) (and LNB, if you can get to it) before doing anything else!


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## mangusta1969 (Oct 11, 2007)

Stew,

Thanks for your suggestions on my troubled installation. I will check the tightness of all of the coax connections and ensure there is a good ground (that well might be the problem).

Before upgrading to a powered multi-switch, can I check the voltage level at the 99(b) satellite LNB end of the cabling? What should the minimum control voltage be at this LNB? Since I think the 99(b) satellite is part of the triple LNB, is there a diagram that shows which coax cable to test?

To clarify, the good (steady 96-98) signal levels on the satellite 99(b) odd transponders (TP1, TP3, and TP5) and the 0 signal levels on the even transponders (TP2, TP4, TP6) are virtually identical to between the H20 (no HDTV currently connected) and the HR20 (Sony HDTV connected) receivers. All signal levels have been steady when I checked them. 

I wasn't going to purchase an HDTV for the H20 receiver location until I am certain that I can get a good hi-def signal at that location. The house's existing internal RG59 wiring runs (installed in 1996 during a major renovation) cannot be easily replaced with RG6. 

To clarify the hardware wiring a bit, there are two 150 foot runs of brand new RG6 twin coax (4 wires total) that connect the new 5 LNB slimline antenna to the new WG68 multi-switch which is mounted in the basement of the house. From this WG68 multi-switch there is a new 60 foot run of RG6 twin coax to an HR20 receiver with an HDTV connected to it. Despite the all-RG6 cabling to the HR20, the Sony HDTV located there has experienced periodic pixelization and periods of total signal loss (usually at night, but weather has been clear at all times) on the local HD channels only; reception of other HD channels on this HDTV has been fine since the second technician visit. 

From the same WG68 multi-switch, there is a 100-120 foot run of 11 year old RG59 that goes inside the house walls to the H20 receiver on the second floor of the house. I don't know about HD reception quality/reliability on the H20 yet, as there is just a standard def TV connected to it.

Skins Fan previously mentioned that a non-vertical dish mast mounting might cause problems with reception, so I will check that as well.

I would still appreciate anyone's inputs on which satellite 99(b) transponders provide the HD local signals in my area (Reno/Carson City, Nevada; zip 89703). I haven't been able to locate this information so far; I will certainly be asking the DirecTV tech this question when I receive my second installation troubleshooting visit next Monday. Thanks for everyone's help!! This is a great forum.


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## Skins Fan (Sep 18, 2007)

K4SMX said:


> You weren't entirely clear on this, but I gather you're saying you're having this problem with both the HR20 and the H20.
> 
> 100' of RG59 to the multi-switch, huh? I think you're gonna need a polarity locker on that WB68. There are posters who have fixed these type problems who had only 60' of RG6. You can get one here. Alternatively, you could replace the WB68 with a WB616 powered multi-switch (as PeaceofMind suggested), which costs more money, but gives you a lot more receiver connections.
> 
> It appears that your signal strengths are OK, even at the end of 100' of possibly otherwise questionable RG59, but I think you're losing signaling voltage by the time you get to the dish from _all_ of your cables, if you're having this problem on both HD receivers.


K4SMX, you may be right on the 100' and the RG59 but I wonder if this is his problem. I don't use a multi-switch, which very well may drop the signal, so I can only speak to my installation. I have 100' of RG6, dish to house, connecting outside to an old (1980) RG59, then going 80' in the house to the H20. A peaked signal measured at the dish (95-100) is still peaked at the end of the cable (connector) at the H20 and through the H20 to the on-screen sig meter. This is after the H20 SW x2021 upgrade that allowed it to recapture the 20 points it was not showing. When a lower signal is measured at the dish, it is only a couple of points off at the box. There were some engineer types on the solid signal forum that gave some math for the signal loss that could be expected with the various lengths and types of cable if a more detailed look at it is desired. I remember one post by an apartment bldg mgr that reported he had a 300' run and was not experincing any problems with the new *D HD set up.

Mangusta1969 It will be interesting to hear what the tech may find on Monday------Hope you get a good one and canteach us all another problem/solution to pass on to others.


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## mangusta1969 (Oct 11, 2007)

Here's a quote below from a professional installer on another internet forum; he's apparently had lots of negative experiences with the receiver-powered Zinwell WB68 multi-switch and equally positive experiences with the self-powered Zinwell WB616 multi-switch. BTW, SatPro.com currently has the WB616 switch for sale at $127.99, so I will probably try changing out the WB68 if the tech visit from DirecTV next Monday is inconclusive. Ironwood Communications has promised me to send out one of their best techs on Monday. I will let everyone know how this plays out, as I really want to get my local HD channels completely functional and reliable; I would also like to help other forum members, too. Thanks again for your insights!


"All WB68's ought to find homes in the nearest dumpster. Period. I had over 80 of them in MDU setups in and around Seattle (2 different companies) that were causing TONS of problems. ALL were replaced by WB616's starting over 3 months ago. ZERO problems since (771 errors on multiple channels, multiple satellites). If you can get one to work properly, more power to you. If you can 'signal lock' the WB68 with yet more equipment, same. But when you get problems, toss the junk and go with the 616; more $ but no hassle. That's the bottom line.

I've had long discussions with both DirecTV engineers and their contract installer/engineers, and the basic reason they still use the WB68 is simply cost. If DirecTV gives it out for free, kinda get a clue. But keep a close eye on it, and if/when you start seeing wacky problems, toss it out."


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

I wouldn't even bother measuring signaling voltages at the LNB. You're _way_ over the limit on your distance to the dish without either a WB616 or a polarity locker. Fortunately, you don't have to replace the RG59, based on your s.s. readings. I'd probably just go with the WB616 for simplicity of installation: less cables/connectors. BTW, you can still check your pixelation problem on the SD TV on the Ka satellites; the picture just won't be in HD coming out of either the composite or S-video ports on the H20.

There is an accumulating body of evidence that the installer you quoted is correct. There are posters who have corrected problems with only 60' runs by replacing WB68's with WB616's. Obviously, Ironwood will only be able to help you if they happen to have one of these on the truck. Unlikely.


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## Matt9876 (Oct 11, 2007)

Fixed pixelation mpeg4 problem yesterday on job.

Problem was a screw on connector behind living room wall plate.

Matt

Edit : Yes 103(b)


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

Matt9876 said:


> Fixed pixelation mpeg4 problem yesterday on job.
> 
> Problem was a screw-on connector behind living room wall plate.
> 
> Matt


Very interesting. I take it you mean the 103(b) signals, or was that all the Ka's? What's your theory as to why these various connector problems don't effect the other sat's. It's a little strange to me that down-converted 103(b) sigs, which are basically in the UHF TV band, are the ones primarily having these pixelation/connector problems.


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## Kiteflyer (Sep 16, 2007)

What's the distance of the cable run from multiswitch to receiver? Did they use solid copper core or copper clad cable? Is it a Zinwell WB 68 or some other brand of multiswitch?


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## flaleblanc (Oct 27, 2007)

texasbrit said:


> The pattern of odd TPs having signal and even TPs having no signal is quite normal for a 5-lnb dish which is badly aligned for 103(b). As the dish goes out of alignment, the even TPs drop signal strength much faster than the odds. As you adjust the dish back into correct alignment, the evens should catch up with odds in signal strength. If you get 103(b) into the 90s, the odd/even TPs are pretty much the same.


Could also be defective broadband connector, which would explain odd transponders with 0 signal level and error message [771]. You might try a quick swap, if you have a spare, to eliminate that possibility.


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## dcrews (Sep 15, 2007)

Update:

Here it is several days later, and ABSOLUTELY NO PIXELATION!!

So I think the tech fixed it!!

WOOHOO!


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## Pink Fairy (Dec 28, 2006)

Great to hear!


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## SParker (Apr 27, 2002)

I have had absolutely no 771 since swapping out the sidecar with a slimline. I'm tickled pink! :sure:


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## techrep (Sep 15, 2007)

dcrews said:


> Update:
> 
> Here it is several days later, and ABSOLUTELY NO PIXELATION!!
> 
> ...


Glad to hear it.


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## techrep (Sep 15, 2007)

SParker said:


> I have had absolutely no 771 since swapping out the sidecar with a slimline. I'm tickled pink! :sure:


It was about the only thing left to change. 

Looks like you are set.


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## shendley (Nov 28, 2005)

I've been relatively pixelation/picture break up free on my mpeg4 broadcasts for a couple of weeks or more. But last night I recorded a show on Vampires from History HD that had very bad periodic pixelation and picture break up. And I tuned into the "Football in America" show on NBC tonight about 15 minutes into it and had periodic problems for the first 10 to 15 minutes. I've got the slimline dish and all relevant transponder signal strengths are in the nineties.


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## billk1 (Jan 21, 2006)

I've had serious pixelation problems on HD locals and CBSE, NBCE, FoxE and ABCE in NY metro area despite signal strength of 95 and 96% on the 99b satellite.


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## kd4ao (Jun 12, 2004)

HD locals in SW Florida are very bad, especially on sports programing. Switching to OTA on same program usually, but not always, solves the problem.


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## mangusta1969 (Oct 11, 2007)

Kiteflyer,

If you asking me those questions, here are the answers:

Multiswitch is a new Zinwell WB68, installed about 12 days ago
Wiring from multiswitch to HR20 DVR; approx 70 feet of new solid copper RG6 (two wires)
Wiring from multiswitch to H20 rcvr; approx 120 feet of 12 year old solid copper RG59 (includes two barrel connectors, too)
Wiring from slimline antenna to multiswitch; 4 150 foot runs of new solid copper RG6

Others,
I continue to have intermittent total signal loss and severe (unwatchable) pixelization problems on all 4 of my HD local channels in Carson City, NV. All other HD channels seem to be fine... So far, the HD local problems occur in the morning between 0830-0930 and in the evening between 1630-1900 and are not weather-related. Last night I could not watch the first two hours of the HD World Series broadcast on the local KRXI HD local channel 11 (from Reno, NV). A clear signal started around 1845 local and continued for the remainder of the broadcast. It was lightly raining here from about 1900-2100, when the signal was just fine.

I had a DirectTV technician visit this morning to investigate my ongoing local HD channel reception problem. He measured signal levels "in the 90s" on his portable box at the slimline antenna source, at the multiswitch, and at the RG6 and RG59 cables going into the two receivers. When I questioned him about which satellite and which transponders the HD local channels were being carried on, he said that all of the HD locals in this area were carried on satellite 119 and that the 99 satellite was "still in test mode". 

When he couldn't tell me which satellite 119 transponders carried the HD locals so we could look at their specific signal strengths, I didn't really believe his information any more. I also told him that I had been told that the WB68 multiswitch had problems with long wiring runs like mine and that it might need to be changed out for a powered multiswitch. He said no, that wasn't the case and the WB68 unit was the correct one for my installation. Naturally, all 4 of my local channels were working just fine while he was here this morning (0815-0845). Equally naturally, I lost the HD local signals on all 4 of these channels from 0905-0930 this morning, just after he left. We'll see what happens again this evening.

BTW, my H20 receiver had mysteriously reset itself to a 3 LNB setup overnight. Yesterday, I had taken several satellite 99 signal strength readings on that unit (96-98 on the odd transponders and zeroes on the even transponders). Today, the satellite 99 did not even show up on the display; this was corrected by the technician, who performed the "Repeat Satellite Setup" option on the Satellite Dish and Antenna Setup window. The tech had no explanation for why this receiver had reset itself from a 5 LNB to a 3 LNB configuration. Once the configuration was manually changed, the H20 receiver showed the same 96-98 strengths on the odd transponders and zeroes on the even transponders that it had displayed yesterday.

Does anyone have information on which satellite and which transponders are used to carry the HD local channels for Reno Nevada? The Ironwood Communications (DTV installers in this area) supervisors did not know this information. I will try to get this information from the DirecTV technical support line this morning and will pass this information along to forum members if I am successful.

So far, I have had three DTV installation and troubleshooting visits and still have only a partially working system. As some others have done, I may just purchase and install a Zinwell WB616 powered multiswitch myself and see if that solves my problem/stops my pain.


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## techrep (Sep 15, 2007)

mangusta1969 said:


> Kiteflyer,
> 
> If you asking me those questions, here are the answers:
> 
> ...


It is likely that a WB616 or a signal locker will solve your problem.


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## shendley (Nov 28, 2005)

I'd like to hear more from people who have the powered WB 616 multiswitch. I've had intermittent problems with losing mpeg2 HD broadcasts for over half a year now. I had DTV techs change out both my non powered WB multiswitch and replace my original sidecar dish with the slimline. I thought the change to the slimline had finally solved the problem, but the last couple of weeks I've seen the same problem occur again along with occasionally very bad pixelation and picture break up on some of the new mpeg4 HD channels. But before buying a powered multiswitch I'd really like to hear from others who've tried this. 

And, by the way: do you need 6 inputs for the powered multiswitch or will the 4 off the dish be enough to power it?


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

See this thread: WB616 Rocks!

The  Zinwell WB616 DIRECTV Wide Band 6x16 Multi-Switch (WB616) is powered by 120VAC. It is connected to all 4 LNB inputs on the dish side.


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## shendley (Nov 28, 2005)

Thanks! Looks like all the information I could ask for there.



K4SMX said:


> See this thread: WB616 Rocks!
> 
> The  Zinwell WB616 DIRECTV Wide Band 6x16 Multi-Switch (WB616) is powered by 120VAC. It is connected to all 4 LNB inputs on the dish side.


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## mangusta1969 (Oct 11, 2007)

My continuing intermittent reception of the satellite-delivered Reno HD local channels has been escalated to the point where I have a direct number/PIN to a DTV tech and they are looking into my periodic heavy pixelization and dropouts (usually in mid morning and late afternoon, but it happens at other times, too).

The tech yesterday told me that all four of these HD channels for Reno are carried on Satellite 99(b), transponder 5. He does not know why my very steady 97-98 signal readings for this transponder are not giving me consistent good reception on these channels, but DTV is continuing to troubleshoot the problem.

During my periodic signal outage periods, my H20 and HR20 receivers are reporting the same, excellent signal strengths (97-98 on transponder 5/Sat 99), so I don't think this is an HR20 problem, as some users on other threads have speculated.

As some forum members in this thread have suggested, perhaps a WB616 multiswitch installation will solve the problem, but we will see how DirecTV addresses my "since day one" problem with my new installation. I experience the dropouts while watching a single local HD channel. If it was a non-self-powered multiswitch or low voltage problem, wouldn't the problem be more prevalent when changing channels involving switching from odd to even satellite transponders? Wouldn't I also have problems with some channels other than just the 4 local HD channels? The only problem children that I have is with the four local HD channels in my area (2,4,8 and 11).

I would appreciate any feedback from other Northern NV users having similar problems on the HD local channels.


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

Since I see from your earlier posts that you are using a Zinwell WB68 multi-switch, have you tried removing all the dish-side connectors from it and by-passing it with three double female "barrel" connectors directly to your HR20 and H20?


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## mangusta1969 (Oct 11, 2007)

Stew, 

Eliminating the WB68 multiswitch from the overall circuit topology is a good idea, but that would not be a long term solution, as I also have 4 additional standard definition receivers in this house. I may give its temporary removal a try, though, as it has taken quite a while to get DirecTV's technical attention on my problem.

If I eliminate the WB68 temporarily, I will have 150-200 foot runs of RG6 cable from the two HD receivers to the Slimline dish assembly. Might that length of cable run be a problem in itself, causing similar symptoms? FYI, the WB68 is located about 40 feet from the HR20 DVR and about 80 feet from the H20 HD receiver. The WB68 multiswitch has about 110-120 feet of RG6 cable between it and the dish assembly.

Thanks again for your suggestions.


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

You're over the limit on your cable distances, especially if you don't have solid copper center conductor RG6. You should still try the bypass as a test. You're gonna need a Sonora power inserter on that WB68, or better would be a WB616 powered multi-switch, if you don't mind the extra dollars for a simpler, probably more robust solution.


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## mangusta1969 (Oct 11, 2007)

All of my cable runs have solid copper center cores, so I am as good as can be expected there, short of going to the much thicker and less flexible type of coax. 

I am hoping that DirecTV will acknowledge their various installation misadventures and correct the problem on their nickel, whatever it proves to be. I had a preliminary site survey done to assess where the antenna and cabling could be located and was assured there would be "no problem".

As I incorrect in my thoughts on what the multi-switch is doing? I thought it provided higher voltage levels to the LNBs at the dish so that they could reliably switch polarities between the even and odd satellite transponders. Once switched to a given transponder is there an issue with the steady state voltage level being too low or marginal. If that is is the case, why do I ONLY lose signals on the 4 local HD channels that are delivered by transponder 5 on the 99 Satellite? Even though I have significantly lower signal strength readings on a number of other satellites and transponders (typically in the lower 90), my 96-98 signal levels on TP5/99 is the only one that is giving me intermittent reception problems. I never see any lower signal levels (i.e., lower than 96) on this transponder when the 4 local HD channels go out.


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

The WB68 is _not_ powered, but is in the circuit with its own internal DC resistance. I'm not sure anyone knows for sure what all the problems are with this multi-switch, but any unusual behavior, regardless of signal strength, calls for eliminating it temporarily from the circuit as a troubleshooting step. Most people who have trouble with it also report signal strength variations. There _have_ been quite a few reported problems with this multi-switch. I haven't seen any reports that I can recall re: 99(b) only issues, so you might be the first, if taking it out of the circuit eliminates your PQ problems. It needs to be tested.

You could also have a bad 99(b) LNB section, but did you not say this only effects one of your HD receivers? That would rule out the LNB. No way to test that anyway w/out swapping out the whole LNB for a known good one, however.

With runs as long as yours (>125'), DirecTV doesn't provide a powered multi-switch free of charge. The installation folks should have advised you that you were over the spec limit for non-powered multi-switches.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

mangusta1969,

If you have not already done so, replace the b-band converters. You can order replacements on the DirecTV web site.

Most of the other suggestions I would make have already been offered.

Carl


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## techrep (Sep 15, 2007)

mangusta1969 said:


> Multiswitch is a new Zinwell WB68, installed about 12 days ago
> Wiring from multiswitch to HR20 DVR; approx 70 feet of new solid copper RG6 (two wires)
> Wiring from multiswitch to H20 rcvr; approx 120 feet of 12 year old solid copper RG59 (includes two barrel connectors, too)
> Wiring from slimline antenna to multiswitch; 4 150 foot runs of new solid copper RG6.


120 feet of RG59 is to long to maintain a reliable switching voltage from the receiver to the multiswitch, let alone, the 150 feet from the multiswitch to the LNB.

The only way for you to keep the switching voltage above the threshold is to get a signal locker or a WB616 multiswitch.

http://www.solidsignal.com/manuals/Sheet_HRPID1422_11.pdf

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=WB616


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## mangusta1969 (Oct 11, 2007)

Techrep and Carl6,

Appreciate the inputs. Just to clarify things, I have all new RG6 cabling from the multiswitch to the antenna and all new RG6 cabling from the multiswitch to the HR20 DVR. Only the H20 receiver has any RG59 cabling in its circuit.

If I am having a signal voltage level problem due to cable lengths or a non-powered multiswitch, why are ONLY the 4 local HD channels affected? I would think a voltage level/polarity switching problem would affect other channels, too. That is just not the case. So I don't think the theories are fitting my reception symptoms. Whether I am having problems or not, I also have very steady 96-98 signal strength readings on Transponder 5 of Satellite 99(b).

Since DTV is slow to address this problem, I have ordered 3 new B-band converters from the DTV web site. Since that link is pretty hard to find, here it is in case other people are having potential B-band converter problems:
http://directv.qrs1.net/bbc/bbcForm.jsp

For information, I just checked my B-band converters. On my HR20 DVR I have a Revision 3 converter on Input 1 and a Revision 2 converter on Input 2. On my H20 receiver I have a Revision 2 converter on its single input. Whenever I am having intermittent pixelization problems on either receiver, I check the other receiver. In every case, the intermittent picture problem on both receivers goes bad at the same time, leading me to believe the problem is with the LNB itself.


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## techrep (Sep 15, 2007)

mangusta1969 said:


> Techrep and Carl6,
> 
> Appreciate the inputs. Just to clarify things, I have all new RG6 cabling from the multiswitch to the antenna and all new RG6 cabling from the multiswitch to the HR20 DVR. Only the H20 receiver has any RG59 cabling in its circuit.
> 
> ...


Keep in mind that, your "RF representation" of TP signal strength is a different "animal" (compliments of VOS) than the systems ability to lock (and maintain a lock) on any TP. When switching voltage goes below an allowable level, from any source, the multiswitch is confused and formaly locked signals can loose lock.


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## Draconis (Mar 16, 2007)

One thing I noticed from your post *mangusta1969 *is that you are using RG59 with barrel connectors to the H20. That may be part of your problem as they say that RG59 has 20% greater signal loss than RG6. The barrels cannot be helping either.

I would replace that entire run with RG6 copper-core cabling.

I also have a question, is the problem on just one of the receivers or is it on both the HR20 and H20?


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## sbergstc (Jun 21, 2007)

Hello, 

I'm also having trouble with severe pixelation w/audio dropout on my HD local channels. I'm in DesMoines IA (zip 50263) area and DTV does not offer locals here yet. We get our signal OTA via antenna in attic. We also experience minor pixelation on other HD channels, but the HD locals are the real problem... however, could they be related? It's so bad that I now record anything on CBS in SD (picture is crappy, but at least it's watchable). There is pixelation on the other networks, but it's not so bad...

My equipment is a new dish that was installed when the new HD channels rolled out in this area around September/October. An HR20-100 (installed in June). I believe the cabling is RG6 with runs from dish to switch (Zinwell SAM 4803 powered) around 60-70 ft and from switch to receiver about the same. Running software 0x1be (CE) from 11/2 (think I may have missed one this weekend ).

Signal strengths are great on 101, 110, 119 from 85-100 with exception of following:

119 = TP 23=0, 29=0 (tuners 1&2)
101 = TP 4=0, 12=77, 18=0, 26=0, 28=51 (tuners 1&2)

103a are all zero except TP17=96 (both tuners)
103b is excellent except 2=0 on tuner 1 only; the rest are 80-97.

I'm a novice at troubleshooting signal problems, I did tighten the connections at the switch and have ordered new BBC's from DTV.

My fear is that since the signal comes from the antenna, I'm stuck. If you can offer any advice I'd be very grateful.

Thanks in advance,
sbergstc


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

What type reception do you get on your HD locals when you connect your attic antenna directly to your TV, assuming it has an ATSC tuner? Snow on the roof will really do in an attic-mounted antenna.



sbergstc said:


> .....We also experience minor pixelation on other HD channels.......My equipment is a new dish that was installed when the new HD channels rolled out in this area around September/October. An HR20-100 (installed in June). I believe the cabling is RG6 with runs from dish to switch *(Zinwell SAM 4803 powered)* around 60-70 ft and from switch to receiver about the same.....


Also, IIRC, that multi-switch is not designed to handle the 103(b) signals. You need either a Zinwell WB68 (non-powered) or WB616 (powered). That may explain the pixelation on your regular HD channels from 103(b).


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## techrep (Sep 15, 2007)

sbergstc, what antenna do you have in the attic, how far from the towers are you, and do you have a amp?

For the other, change out that multiswitch as K4SMX suggests.


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## sbergstc (Jun 21, 2007)

Thanks for the quick responses...

I haven't tried connecting the antenna to the tv directly (JVC HD-ILA 56G886), however, the problem has been going on for at least a couple of months; I think even before I began receiving the new DTV HD channels. We've only had snow for the last couple of days so I'll have to pay attention to those recorded programs.

K4SMX, When you say "regular HD programming" you mean premium HD channels, not the HD locals, right? Just want to be clear.

The antenna is a Winegard Prostar 1000 Pr-7010 Vhf/UHF/FM Antenna - 8.3 Db... Installed 8/2003 inside the attic. 

Channel 5, 11, 13 (ABC, PBS, NBC), 8 (CBS and the WORST RECEPTION of the 4) , 17 FOX all transmit from towers approx 20 miles away in Alleman IA (I'm in Waukee a little west of Des Moines). I have read other complaints about channel 8's crappy broadcast quality on both SD & HD.

There is an SVI Digital 15db amp. The antenna and sat cables are RG6.

I was thinking the same thing about changing out the multiswitch to the one recommended in this thread. That's the first thing I'll upgrade either myself or if I can get DTV to install it.

Is there an in-attic antenna that would be a better choice for my setup? Any other recommendations?

Thanks again,
sbergstc


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

sbergstc said:


> K4SMX, When you say "regular HD programming" you mean premium HD channels, not the HD locals, right? Just want to be clear.


Right. Satellite HD channels vs. OTA HD channels.

Is this attic antenna/amp connected directly to the back of your HR20-100, or is it running through a set of diplexers left over from your previous, non-HD installation? How many wires come out of the wall or through the floor behind the HR20, if you don't know?

You really need to hook the antenna up directly to your TV to see what you've got by comparison. What does the HR20 say your OTA signal strengths are for those channels?

You should have received the WB68 free at the time of the upgrade, if you have more than 4 satellite receiver tuners. The HR20 uses two.


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## sbergstc (Jun 21, 2007)

OK, This is what it looks like to me (what a mess...):

Antenna cable from attic into 2/1 splitter in bsmt... one cable goes to HR20-100; the other cable goes into a combiner (3 in/out). One cable from combiner goes to HD Tivo. The other cable from combiner goes into the AMP. The amp then goes to all OTHER rooms (no TV's). I see this as the amp doesn't actually effect the satellite receiver/antenna cables. I believe this amp was added by the cable company to help pump up my modem. 

So that said, it appears that the attic antenna is going to the TV via the first splitter. Originally in the room with the HR20-100, the former owners watched tv via a receiver in another room (currently our old HD Tivo). 

Also, the room with the HR20-100 is an addition from about 6-7 years ago done by previous owners. Once we moved in and had DTV come out to install HD, there were three lines running into the room... one was for Cable, one was for the satellite and one was unused (I think). So when we upgraded to the HD Tivo we were lucky that all we needed was the three cables. Otherwise it would have involved cutting holes in the old roof above the kitchen to have access to the new family room.

The Sony receiver we purchased allowed us to see the Cable channels as well as antenna and HD content. There was no DVR with this unit. Once we upgraded to the Tivo we couldn't see Cable channels anyway so it was no loss.... I digress...

That's the history and current configuration.

I'm not in front of the TV right now, and I'm not sure where to look for the channel's antenna signal strength... although I probably looked at it repeatedly yesterday while my husband was trying to watch football  

I am planning to call DTV tomorrow to schedule a service call and request the WB68 since I should have gotten one in the first place (I have 4 sat cables with the probability of adding another HD receiver soon).

In my looking through the cables I also noticed that one of them (going to the Tivo) is showing exposed metal thru the plastic coating, so they can look at that and fix it too.

Anyway, sorry for the long post... I really appreciate your help and patience. Also, would you recommend another antenna, or is the one I have sufficient?

Thanks again,
Sbergstc


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## Canis Lupus (Oct 16, 2006)

There's your problem. You have a diplexed signal in the run to the HR20. This will cause all sorts of problems with your new HD channels. The antenna line needs to be run separately from the lines running into your HR-20. D* needs to fix this as well. Don't let them try to convince you otherwise. 

EDIT: Sorry - this assumes you want to receive your local HD channels over the air, not from the SAT. If you get your locals from the SAT, you still need to remove that split though.



sbergstc said:


> Antenna cable from attic into 2/1 splitter in bsmt... one cable goes to HR20-100; the other cable goes into a combiner (3 in/out).


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## Canis Lupus (Oct 16, 2006)

This should still work just fine as long as the 3 cables are doing only what they're supposed to: 2 from the new WB68 to the HR20, and the third one from the antenna to the HR20. Splitters in your antenna line may still be OK (although signal strength degrades in antennas the more you split them), but we can deal with that after you fix the first problems. Just make sure, as above, that there are no splitters/diplexers etc in those lines from the WB68 to the HR20.

EDIT: Again, assuming you want to get your local HDs from an antenna.



sbergstc said:


> Also, the room with the HR20-100 is an addition from about 6-7 years ago done by previous owners. Once we moved in and had DTV come out to install HD, there were three lines running into the room... one was for Cable, one was for the satellite and one was unused (I think). So when we upgraded to the HD Tivo we were lucky that all we needed was the three cables. Otherwise it would have involved cutting holes in the old roof above the kitchen to have access to the new family room.


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

Keep in mind that the HR20 has two OTA tuners and an internal splitter. So now you have _two_ splitters ahead of your HR20's OTA tuners, which aren't that good to begin with. That's a total loss of 6 decibels, quite substantial.

It would be better to place the antenna amplifier in front of your 2 way splitter instead of only on one leg. That should improve your signal strength to the HR20 considerably. Hopefully it's of reasonable quality. There's a lot of junk out there, but if the cableco installed it, it's probably OK. It would also be best to move the antenna amplifier to the attic antenna location instead of at the other end of the long run to the basement. You can get an adapter so you can plug it in to an attic light fixture and still use the light bulb.

Based on your post, it seems like you can use your existing 2 way splitter, one side to the HR20 and the other to the HD Tivo, and eliminate the 3 way.


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## sbergstc (Jun 21, 2007)

I get the HD channels OTA as they are not yet offered by DTV in my area.

Here's my interpretation of your posts ...

1. Install an amp in the attic at the antenna; the amp has 3-4 possible outputs.

a. one output to the HR20-100 via existing cable 
b. another to the cable in the basement to the HD Tivo joined with a barrel connector (?)
c. third cable to the splitter (4-5 out) bringing the ant signal to the remaining rooms with coax outlets.
d. there is no light socket, but I think I can run a cord from the garage door control outlet in the ceiling...

If I understand correctly, this would greatly improve the signal... And the amp at the antenna is acting as a splitter, right? Plus no more 2/1 splitter or combiner... Certainly neatens things up too.

2. A new multiswitch should solve the pixelation with the new DTV HD channels.

Also, am I correct in my original description of the current amp connection that it isn't amplifying the antenna signal (or even the modem signal, for that matter)?

Where do I check the antenna signal strength?

(edit) Found it... System Test: Off-air 1 = 90%, Off-air 2 = 75%... Comments???

Here's another question. The multiswitch is currently in the bsmt... the cables for the HR20 run from the dish down to the multiswitch and BACK UP to the attic and over to the Fam Rm. The run for the Tivo unit is pretty direct from the multiswitch. Is a multiswitch typically installed near the dish, or is it specific to each installation? Or what about two multiswitches? Or does it really make a difference at all...

Thanks again for your time,
sbergstc

I'm going to call DTV tonight... Is there a "preferred customer" contact number? (I am one of their pref cust as I have premium pkg and use auto pay.)


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## Canis Lupus (Oct 16, 2006)

sbergstc said:


> I get the HD channels OTA as they are not yet offered by DTV in my area.
> 
> Here's my interpretation of your posts ...
> 
> 1. Install an amp in the attic at the antenna; the amp has 3-4 possible outputs.


This is just me, but I would actually start without the amp first if possible, then if the signal strengths are not sufficient, put the amp in. Depending on how far you are from the towers, where they are located (all in one place or spread out), and the type of antenna, sometimes it's actually possible to "overshoot" the towers with an amp that's too strong. If the signals are weak, add the amp in (again - just my opinion and every situation is different).



sbergstc said:


> a. one output to the HR20-100 via existing cable


Just to be clear, for the HR-20 to work optimally, you want 2 SAT cables running to it so you have 2 tuners to record on.



sbergstc said:


> b. another to the cable in the basement to the HD Tivo joined with a barrel connector (?)


Again, if the TiVo is a DVR, you want a total of 2 cables for 2 tuners.



sbergstc said:


> c. third cable to the splitter (4-5 out) bringing the ant signal to the remaining rooms with coax outlets.


Yes - this would be antenna>amp in attic (if needed)>splitter if required other than amp>1 line each to the HR20 and the TiVo.

d. there is no light socket, but I think I can run a cord from the garage door control outlet in the ceiling...



sbergstc said:


> If I understand correctly, this would greatly improve the signal... And the amp at the antenna is acting as a splitter, right? Plus no more 2/1 splitter or combiner... Certainly neatens things up too.


This remains to be seen (first response above), but theoretically yes.



sbergstc said:


> 2. A new multiswitch should solve the pixelation with the new DTV HD channels.


That, combined with removing that splitter/diplexer, yes.



sbergstc said:


> Where do I check the antenna signal strength?
> 
> (edit) Found it... System Test: Off-air 1 = 90%, Off-air 2 = 75%... Comments???


This is just a guess, but I'd predict the current split you have with the HR20 is causing that OTA Tuner 2 to be lower than Tuner 1.



sbergstc said:


> Here's another question. The multiswitch is currently in the bsmt... the cables for the HR20 run from the dish down to the multiswitch and BACK UP to the attic and over to the Fam Rm. The run for the Tivo unit is pretty direct from the multiswitch. Is a multiswitch typically installed near the dish, or is it specific to each installation? Or what about two multiswitches? Or does it really make a difference at all...


This is the meat of the matter for your setup. If you only have 2 DVRs, that's a total of 4 tuners. The dish has a built-in switch that will support this without a multiswitch. If you have no plans to add more receivers/TVs, you actually don't need a multiswitch at all. So what you could do here is eliminate the switch, run 2 lines from the dish directly to the HR20, then run the remaining 2 lines from the dish directly to the TiVo (this could potentially be just putting 2 barrel connectors in the basement where your old switch currently is).

If you do plan on having more receivers/TVs, it would probably be best just to replace the multiswitch right where it is in the basement.


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

Canis Lupus said:


> This is just me, but I would actually start without the amp first if possible, then if the signal strengths are not sufficient, put the amp in. Depending on how far you are from the towers, where they are located (all in one place or spread out), and the type of antenna, sometimes it's actually possible to "overshoot" the towers with an amp that's too strong. If the signals are weak, add the amp in (again - just my opinion and every situation is different).


I agree generally speaking. What you have is a combo amplified splitter. A lot of these amplifiers can cause problems because they pick up extraneous signals, amplify them, and add to the signal stream from the amplification what is called third-order intermodulation distortion ("intermod" for short), which interferes with the reception of the intended signals. However, the OTA tuners in the HR20 are none too spiffy compared to what's used in most late model HDTV's, and you are very likely to find that especially with an attic antenna you're going to need an amplifier, just maybe not _that_ amplifier. If your current amplifier has problems such as described, there are several good alternatives.



Canis Lupus said:


> Just to be clear, for the HR-20 to work optimally, you want 2 SAT cables running to it so you have 2 tuners to record on.


I was a little confused at first, too! From the OP, it appears that all this mess is only in the OTA line, and that all the sat lines are in place.



Canis Lupus said:


> This is just a guess, but I'd predict the current split you have with the HR20 is causing that OTA Tuner 2 to be lower than Tuner 1.


I dunno. With HR20 OTA tuner's, all OTA ss readings are highly suspect! I would be inclined to switch back and forth between OTA tuners to see if there's any _real_ difference in PQ on each OTA channel. In nany event, they're both fed from the same source, whatever it is.



Canis Lupus said:


> This is the meat of the matter for your setup. If you only have 2 DVRs, that's a total of 4 tuners. The dish has a built-in switch that will support this without a multiswitch. If you have no plans to add more receivers/TVs, you actually don't need a multiswitch at all. So what you could do here is eliminate the switch, run 2 lines from the dish directly to the HR20, then run the remaining 2 lines from the dish directly to the TiVo (this could potentially be just putting 2 barrel connectors in the basement where your old switch currently is).......If you do plan on having more receivers/TVs, it would probably be best just to replace the multiswitch right where it is in the basement.


I agree. I don't know what that out-of-date multi-switch is doing there in the first place, unless you've got an SD receiver or two you didn't mention. You may have trouble getting a free replacement, since you appear not to need it.


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## Canis Lupus (Oct 16, 2006)

Good thing I didn't totally mess up my responses and advice like I've done in some other threads recently! :lol:


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

I've got that T-shirt as well.....


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## sbergstc (Jun 21, 2007)

You 2 are very funny... :lol: Just remember I'm taking your advice very seriously... I don't have any other resources for this stuff.

Sorry for the confusion regarding cables... The unbearable pixelation issue is with the OTA channels, so I'm only talking about the antenna in #1 and there are two cables going to each HD receiver, so I'm OK there. I do have some occasional pixelation with the new HD channels, but I'm hoping that the new multiswitch will take care of that... I'd like to have the LNB and the dish alignment checked out as well, but we've had some very messy weather here and I doubt it'll be melted in time.

My appt with DTV tech is next Tuesday so I'd like to pickup the right amp for the attic and leave the current one where it is (and attach it to the modem like originally intended).

To be sure I understand, the new antenna setup should be: *ANT > AMP > 2/1 OR 3/1 splitter dividing the signal between the HD receivers.* Correct?

Could you please recommend an amplifier and/or where I can get one... Radio Shack??? And what should I be looking for with regard to specs and a good brand name?

We had 3 receivers initially (2003), so I think that's why there's a multiswitch. I don't know why that particular switch was installed unless it's because two of the receivers were SD. I do plan to add a 3rd HD receiver when we eventually replace the Fam Rm TV (JVC 56" HD-ILA 2-3 years old) with a 120hz and relocate the JVC. So there is valid reason for a new multiswitch.

I spoke with tech support last night and I'm sure you'll laugh when I tell you that she had no idea what I was talking about when I requested the WB68 and why. What convinced her to give me an appointment was the fact that 3 of the transponders were low (on 119 and 110). I wouldn't reset the box and told her I'd already done all the typical troubleshooting. So we looked at the TP #'s... I insisted that she make a notation on the work order for the tech to bring a WB68but she wouldn't guarantee anything. I also requested a senior tech... Lets keep our fingers crossed.

Thanks,
sbergstc


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

The two antenna amplifiers I would suggest you look at are the Motorola Model 484095-001-00 Signal Booster, which I have used in multiple installations, and the Channel Master Model 7777, which I have not used, but there appear to be many satisfied users. The latter is designed to be mounted on the antenna mast, but in your attic installation, it makes no difference. The Motorola can be mounted on a roof rafter, etc., if you care to mount it at all. The main difference separating all the bad ones from the rest is that the DC power is supplied by shielded cable on all the ones that are any good. That doesn't mean that all the ones with shielded DC power are great, but that's a major dividing line. The Motorola is actually sold direct by Amazon itself, and I remember when I first saw them at Circuit City 3 years ago, they were more than twice as much money as Amazon now gets for them.

The whole OTA situation is not something the DirecTV installer you're expecting Tuesday will care anything about, so you can just concentrate with him on your satellite HD signal pixelation.

Between now and then, I'd bypass your old multi-switch with 4 barrel connectors connecting the 4 tuner lines directly to the 4 lines to the dish. I like the Radio Shack Model 278-213 F81 barrel connectors, because even though they're not rated for satellite use, I've never had a problem with them for that use. There's a lot of junky barrel connectors out there, including some at RS which rust instantly. When the DirecTV guy shows up, he can give you some more that _are_ rated for satellite frequencies, and the plastic dialectric material you will note is blue

I'd also remove, inspect, and re-tighten all your connectors on your satellite lines from one end to the other. Bad/loose/corroded connectors are a common problem. Re-tighten everything gently until snug with a 7/16" wrench.

If all this doesn't correct your problem, you can advise the tech what you've done, and he can start to think about your LNB. You can also verify that you're getting mostly all 90's on the 103(b) tp signal strength menu page. This is achievable with a good alignment job.

.


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## sbergstc (Jun 21, 2007)

Thanks much, Stew. 

I'm ordering the motorola right now from amazon.com. Is the antenna model (Winegard Prostar 1000 Pr-7010) I have good enough or should I consider replacing it? Also, I want to buy a new 3/1 splitter... Will I find one at Radio Shack OK, or should I get something else maybe from Amazon?

I'm hoping I can get the DTV tech to "help" me out if I can't get this antenna stuff done myself. Many of the guys that I've dealt with have been pretty accommodating when they see I'm in over my head (as long as they know more than I do... and on occasion I've been the more knowledgeable one in the room)... Hence the request for a senior tech.

sbergstc


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

sbergstc said:


> Thanks much, Stew.
> 
> I'm ordering the motorola right now from amazon.com. Is the antenna model (Winegard Prostar 1000 Pr-7010) I have good enough or should I consider replacing it? Also, I want to buy a new 3/1 splitter... Will I find one at Radio Shack OK, or should I get something else maybe from Amazon?
> 
> ...


The RS splitters are probably OK. But rather than do a 3 way, I'd rather see you use a brand new 2 way, with one side going to your HR20, and the other side going to your old 2 way. That's another 1.5 db for the HR20 that way.

About the antenna, why don't you accomplish all this other stuff first, and we'll jump off that bridge when we come to it!

Edit: BTW, did whoever installed that PR-7010 pop out the little top and bottom corner reflector sections on the UHF end of the antenna?


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

I notice that all of the Des Moines-Ames ATSC channels are UHF, at least for now, so if there's any antenna upgrading to be done, you can get a much better and inexpensive UHF-only antenna in a lot less attic space. The actual RF channel of the ATSC transmitters is the last number of the row:

KCCI-TV CBS 8.n 31
KDIN-TV PBS 11.n 50
KDSM-TV FOX 17.n 16
KTIN PBS 21.n 25
WHO -TV NBC 13.n 19
WOI -TV ABC 5.n 59

Source: NAB


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## sbergstc (Jun 21, 2007)

Anything specific I need to look for besides being UHF only? Brand that's got a good rep?
SBergstc


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

sbergstc said:


> Anything specific I need to look for besides being UHF only? Brand that's got a good rep?
> SBergstc


Ah, ha! Already jumping off that bridge. Go to the TVFool website, enter your street address, skip the other info, and get the results. Then scan down the list of stations, and pick the ones you want to receive for sure, noting any that aren't shown as "LOS" and how far away _those_ are. Next see if all the stations you want are pretty much in the same compass direction within 30 degrees or whether they are in widely different directions. You'll get a pretty good idea of what size antenna you need and whether a standard Yagi design (like the one you have) will work or whether you'll need a different design, more than one antenna, a rotator, etc.


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## newsposter (Nov 13, 2003)

jumping in late but saw the talk about amps and the 7777. I have a single OTA line to both my hdtivos. Then a cheapo home depot splitter in back of them since they are stacked. I needed an amp because of a 125 ft run and got the leviton 25db from home depot and put it inline 25 ft from the antenna in the unheated attic. But every year i'd have to flip the fm trap as i'd get lots of pixelating. I bought another amp before figuring out it must be the trap flaking on me becaues of the heat/cold and the thing wasnt designed to be 'outside'.

someone suggested the 7777 but initially it didnt work at all. What the problem was was that the barrel connector didnt pass thru the power and i was trying to plug in the power right in back of the tivos. to correct this i now have the power before the connector and sitting in my breezeway. since the 7777 is meant to be in the weather, i anticipate no further problems and it's performed great for a month.


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

I found your zip code in your first post. Looks like all your local networks are at ~40 degrees and LOS. Your current antenna should be fine, once you get the wiring/amplifier situation straightened out. The reason Fox is the worst is because their transmitter runs 1/4 the power of everyone else. That's 6 db's. If you're still having problems after re-wiring, we'll have another look at your antenna situation, since being in an attic reduces UHF signal strengths considerably in my experience. You also need to take a compass up there and make sure your antenna is actually pointing at ~40 degrees.


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## sbergstc (Jun 21, 2007)

Thanks Stew for checking that out for me. Glad to hear I can at least start out with what I have. I had no idea that the antenna had to be POINTING IN A SPECIFIC DIRECTION. And I'm pretty sure it's been knocked around quite a bit, especially since I just had a catwalk added up there to make access easier. AND THANK GOODNESS I DO HAVE A COMPASS... compliments of a Crutchfield dish alignment kit ordered years and years ago :grin: I ask the tech to check this as well.

The techs are about to ring my bell as they called this am and said "can we come today?" So of course nothing you recommended prior to their visit has been done, but oh well. I did give him a heads up that I'll need a little OTA tweaking and he didn't seem to mind at all.

Wish me luck.

later,
sbergstc


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## newsposter (Nov 13, 2003)

for anyone else interested in antenna heights/powers etc here is the FCC link (it's saved as philly bookmark but you can easily change the search once you get to the page)

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?stat...2=57&slat2=7&dlon2=75&mlon2=9&slon2=51&size=9


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## sbergstc (Jun 21, 2007)

Stew, Well I'm one happy camper ... Funny since I don't really know yet if what was done will actually make a visible difference.

The techs replaced my old switch with a WB68 n/c and mounted everything and made it look like a clean professional job. Then after talking with them it was decided to leave the amp in the bsmt with everything else. They connected the antenna to the existing amp (to be replaced when the new Motorola arrives) to a 3/1 splitter. Three rooms are connected (2 in use now; 1 in future). We labeled everything and they reorganized and trimmed existing wires to again, give a nice clean appearance.

Plus, can you believe it, one of them actually went on the roof (shake shingle) and cleaned the snow and ice off the dish. Crazy! When I asked, tongue in cheek, if he checked alignment and LNB, he said NO... it was the single most frightening experience of his life and there was no way he was going to try to carry anything up there with him! That was before he realized it was shake shingle...

So in a nutshell, cosmetically it looks 100% improved and is organized to easily see what is what. Reception-wise remains to be seen, but still won't be determined until after new amp is installed.

I will be going up tomorrow or over the weekend to make the antenna directional adjustment. I really appreciate how the website displays the angle the compass needle should be in to accurately set the antenna. Question: how do I know which end to point to 40o?

Will keep you updated when I have new info.

Thanks again,
SBergstc


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## ben arnold (Aug 28, 2007)

I continue to very occassionally get pixilation on the new 103B channels. When it happens my signal levels are fine.It doesn't happen regularly or consistently so I think having a tech out would be a waste of time. I'm sure there is an explaination but I don't know what it is.

I Have an HR-20 hooked up HDMI to a 42 inch Vizio LCD.


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## Canis Lupus (Oct 16, 2006)

Good deal. Let us know how the rest goes and whether you still have the OTA issues.



sbergstc said:


> Stew, Well I'm one happy camper ... Funny since I don't really know yet if what was done will actually make a visible difference.
> 
> The techs replaced my old switch with a WB68 n/c and mounted everything and made it look like a clean professional job. Then after talking with them it was decided to leave the amp in the bsmt with everything else. They connected the antenna to the existing amp (to be replaced when the new Motorola arrives) to a 3/1 splitter. Three rooms are connected (2 in use now; 1 in future). We labeled everything and they reorganized and trimmed existing wires to again, give a nice clean appearance.
> 
> ...


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## Canis Lupus (Oct 16, 2006)

How are your signal strengths (just the meter percentages for now) for your SATS, including the 103b ?



ben arnold said:


> I continue to very occassionally get pixilation on the new 103B channels. When it happens my signal levels are fine.It doesn't happen regularly or consistently so I think having a tech out would be a waste of time. I'm sure there is an explaination but I don't know what it is.
> 
> I Have an HR-20 hooked up HDMI to a 42 inch Vizio LCD.


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## sbergstc (Jun 21, 2007)

Canis Lupus said:


> Good deal. Let us know how the rest goes and whether you still have the OTA issues.


Well, it's probably a bit too early to tell you that I've only noticed a tiny bit of pixelation. I checked two programs that were recording tonight (I checked at the beginning) and it only did a little, tiny pixelation/audio drop within the first 10 minutes of criminal minds. Typically I get 40-50 dropouts in an hour... Like every 45 seconds (not watching commercials). And on a good night, probably at least once every 5 minutes...

But I'm trying not to get too excited, I know I need to give it more time to be sure. I should have the new amp tomorrow or Friday, so I'll wait a week or so and post again.

Just wanted to say thanks again for all your great directions and advice. More importantly my husband thanks you...

Take care,
Sbergstc


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

sbergstc said:


> Stew, Well I'm one happy camper ... Funny since I don't really know yet if what was done will actually make a visible difference.
> 
> The techs replaced my old switch with a WB68 n/c and mounted everything and made it look like a clean professional job. Then after talking with them it was decided to leave the amp in the bsmt with everything else. They connected the antenna to the existing amp (to be replaced when the new Motorola arrives) to a 3/1 splitter. Three rooms are connected (2 in use now; 1 in future). We labeled everything and they reorganized and trimmed existing wires to again, give a nice clean appearance.
> 
> ...


That all sounds great. When the new amp arrives, it would be better at the antenna, but you can surely try it in the basement first to see if you're getting solid signals 24/7. Your Fox station is the one I would be checking most carefully, since it's the weakest. I assume you figured out which end of the compass is which.....you may need your husband for that! 

Hopefully the new WB68 cures your satellite HD problems, but check back if not.


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## sbergstc (Jun 21, 2007)

Hi Stew...

Yeah, that's what I said to the guys about amp placement, but their opinion was that its basically the same result regardless where the amp is located. I don't know if this is correct, but MY logic interprets if the amp is at the ant then the signal is at it's highest when being boosted but if the signal degrades over the length of cable, then you're only boosting the signal that gets through to the amp 20' away. But they reasoned that its basically the same either way. They were being so accommodating that I didn't really want to push them to pull 2 addtnl lines from the attic to the bsmt, although it's easy enough for me to do if I have to.

They also said I could probably keep the amp I have and be fine, but I'd already ordered it and am confident that its a more appropriate choice based on the information you provided. I also purchased a 2-3ghz Monster 3/1 splitter even though they said the one I have (SVI, I think) is fine. I think they were just trying to be kind and tell me I didn't have to spend the extra money...

With as bad as the signal has been for the last two months, I'm satisfied if it just stays the way it is tonite... OTA tuner 1 = 90%, tuner 2 = 100%; SAT tuner 1 = 94%, tuner 2 = 95% (via system test).

Later,
sbergstc


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

Well it would be hard to beat what you've got now. I didn't realize it was only 20 feet. You'd never notice a difference attic vs. basement, unless it was really crummy coax.

Don't understand about the 2 new lines from the attic. What would that have been for?

Please go to MENU > HELP & SETTINGS > SETUP > SAT & ANT > VIEW SIGNAL STRENGTH. Then using the < button, cycle over to the 103(b) satellite and tell us your 16 different 103(b) signal strength readings. The number you posted before came from whatever satellite and transponder you were last on and may not have been 103(b), where all the new HD transponders are located.


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## sbergstc (Jun 21, 2007)

The drop from the attic antenna to the basement where the multiswitch is (and the amp), is a straight drop DOWN two stories x 10' ceiling height through the central cold air return shaft... very convenient actually  Then it's another 50-60' or more to our main watching room because the cable has to go BACK up and through the attic to reach the FR addition. Make sense? And coax is RG6 because it was added within last 6-7 years. 

Right now... ANT > 20' cable > AMP > 1' cable > 3/1 splitter > 3 cables ranging from 30-70' > HR20/HD Tivo It's sooo pretty  

The additional two lines would have been the extra cables needed from the 3/1 splitter off the amp in the attic. There is only one main antenna line that is running thru the shaft so I would have needed to add two cables.

TP 1-16 95 96 95 94 93 95 92 94 93 95 95 95 95 96 98 98

Numbers from a couple of days ago when we first started this dialog:

TP 1-16 83 85 85 86 83 86 86 89 85 90 90 94 89 95 96 97

LOOKIN GOOD... DONTCHA THINK?

sbergstc


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

Now I understand about the cables.

You're gonna have some folks tweaking their dishes this weekend to try to duplicate those 103(b) numbers. That's a pretty sight.


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## ben arnold (Aug 28, 2007)

Canis Lupus said:


> How are your signal strengths (just the meter percentages for now) for your SATS, including the 103b ?


All 103B readings 80+. Most in 90's. I once had one at 79.


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

ben arnold said:


> All 103B readings 80+. Most in 90's. I once had one at 79.


You've posted before about this, but please re-familiarize us with your whole setup:
receivers, models & quantity; multi-switch, yes or no, and what kind it is; cable type and run length; dish type; etc.


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## sbergstc (Jun 21, 2007)

Stew...

Well I'm not a happy camper any more 

We're still getting pixelation on OTA channels same as before. Watched a recording of Numbers tonight and I can't say as I see any improvement. And Moonlight was nearly as bad (both CBS).

I have not yet checked the direction of the antenna and I'm still waiting for the 3/1 Monster 2ghz splitter to arrive in the mail and will do both when it is delivered. The new AMP was installed on Thursday.

So, unless you think the aligning of the ANT and/or the new splitter will make a difference, is there anything else you can think of I could try???

Thanks,
sbergstc


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

That's disheartening. You posted earlier that you had 90-100% OTA signal strengths. That would have been on whatever OTA channels the tuner was last using. Think you could find your way through the menus to report your actual signal strength of KCCI (CBS) Ch 8 (31 RF)?

There is the possibility that even though your signal is strong enough, your pixelation is caused by multi-path reflection, particularly with an indoor antenna. This causes picture breakup on ATSC TV signals, whereas on the analog NTSC signals you would have recognized it as "ghosting." It tends to effect one or two, but not all your channels, although technically it _could_, it just usually doesn't. The tuners in the HR20 have much less ability to reject this interference than more up-to-date ATSC tuners, likely to be found in your current TV, so it would again be a good idea to hook your antenna directly to your TV, do a channel scan, and see what you've got.

Additionally, with multi-path, it's particularly important to have your antenna pointed correctly, because if it's not, you're almost guaranteed to get multi-path problems. So get out that compass and figure out where 40 degrees off of North is to see if maybe your antenna is pointed off to the side. You can have strong signals, and still get multi-path if you're off by much, in fact you can get it if you're not off at all if you've got some nearby structure, wiring, etc. that gives a strong enough reflection. It's a problem...


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## sbergstc (Jun 21, 2007)

Well, I've realigned the Antenna. The installer hung it from wires attached to 2x6' studs about 6' off the attic floor. Anyway, it appeared that it was off by a few inches.

OTA Channel Strengths:

5.1 tuner 1/2 90/90
8.1 tuner 1/2 100/100
8.2 tuner 1/2 100/100
11.1 tuner 1/2 100/100
11.2 tuner 1/2 100/100
13.1 tuner 1/2 100/100
17.1 tuner 1/2 80/80
17.2 tuner 1/2 80/80
23.1 tuner 1/2 90/90
34.1 tuner 1/2 90/90

These numbers look pretty good but I didn't check them prior to resetting the antenna.

I also switched out the 3/1 splitter with the Monster.

Hopefully this will be the charm. If not, I suppose the next step would be to go to the UHF antenna.

Sbergstc


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## Canis Lupus (Oct 16, 2006)

Way to hang in there! Make sure the hubby takes you out for a nice dinner when all is said and done


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## sbergstc (Jun 21, 2007)

Canis Lupus said:


> Way to hang in there! Make sure the hubby takes you out for a nice dinner when all is said and done


Thanks, I'll pass along the suggestion... My real reward will be him not complaining about it anymore :lol:

SBergstc


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## mangusta1969 (Oct 11, 2007)

DTV finally fixed my intermittent pixelation problems with my HD local channels!

Since it is now almost two months since my last repair visit, I thought I would post my long term results, since it may help others. Also, I really appreciate all of the suggestions that everyone made several months ago to help troubleshoot my installation last fall.

Quick recap: my original installation was completed in early October 07 with an HR20-700 DVR, an H20 receiver, 4 std receivers, a 5LNB dish, and a WB68 multiswitch. Most of my cabling was new solid copper core RG6 coax, although the techs had to re-use some 12 year old RG59 cabling that was already installed in the house walls. After a few installation hiccups, my dish was well aligned and I had great reception on almost all channels, but I had intermittent severe pixelation problems on my 4 HD local channels. Although all of these HD local channels were carried on Transponder 5 of the 99 satellite, I had an excellent and steady signal quality of 97-98 on this transponder, even when experiencing 30-45 minutes of unwatchable pixelation on the HD local channels. 

My cable runs are pretty long, too, with a run of 140 feet or so from the internally mounted WB68 multi-switch to the external 5 LNB dish. When the pixelation occurred, it always happened simultaneously to both of the HD receivers.

Many experienced forum members suggested that a powered multiswitch would solve my problem. Others said that my cable lengths were too long or that the internal lengths of RG59 were causing me problems; unfortunately the house is three stories and fixing that problem was tough/impossible. Still others said that my BBC converters might be bad.

I ordered new BBC converters and swapped them out. No improvement.

I tried a little shorter run of RG6 cables (80 feet) to one of the receivers as a temporary fix, with no RG59 cable involved. No improvement.

I tried temporarily bypassing the WB68 multiswitch. No improvement.

I did not think the multiswitch was at fault, since the dropouts always occurred while I was watching a single HD local channel. I did not have any problems switching between channels and I only experienced problems with the 4 HD local channels; there were never any pixelation problems with other HD channels.

I finally convinced DTV to swap out the LNB assembly in mid December. Although my signal strengths remained about the same on all of the satellites/transponders and remained exactly the same on the TP5/Sat 99 local HD channels transponder, this change finally solved my serious intermittent pixelation problem. I still have very occasional pixelation problems during the day on my HD locals, but the duration is only a second or two and it only happens a few times a week instead of several times per day, as I had before the 5LNB replacement.

After the LNB replacement, the H20 now sometimes has difficulty in changing to certain channels, but trying the channel change again will usually correct the problem. The HR20 never has any channel change problems and I never had any channel change problems on the H20 before the LNB replacement, either. I think the new LNBs require a little more voltage to change polarity so I am on the raggedy edge for the H20. If the channel change problem gets worse, I suspect upgrading to a powered multiswitch (WB616) would solve this problem.

Anyway, I thought posting this long term fix (5LNB replacement) might help some others. Apparently steady and high signal strengths on certain Satellite 99 transponders do not guarantee steady reception/lack of drop outs.

Again, thanks to everyone who responded to my earlier pleas for help. This is a great forum.


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

mangusta1969 said:


> DTV finally fixed my intermittent pixelation problems with my HD local channels!......
> 
> .....Anyway, I thought posting this *long term fix (5LNB replacement)* might help some others. *Apparently steady and high signal strengths* on certain Satellite 99 transponders *do not guarantee steady reception/lack of drop outs.*
> 
> Again, thanks to everyone who responded to my earlier pleas for help. This is a great forum.


Thanks for the update. This is a valuable post, because what you describe is no doubt applicable to all potential satellite/tp reception problems. So one should not assume there's no LNB/internal multi-switch problems just because the signal strengths _look_ normal. It would be nice if the spare/backup LNB's could more easily be ordered from all our usual on-line sources instead of either buying the whole dish or snagging the occasional one of perhaps questionable functionality on eBay.


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## SParker (Apr 27, 2002)

Yep back in October I kept having this problem happen and I replaced the BBC's, the multi-switch and it still happened. So I had Directv come out and replace my AT-9 Sidecar with a AU-9 Slimline and the problem stopped.


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## mangusta1969 (Oct 11, 2007)

SParker said:


> Yep back in October I kept having this problem happen and I replaced the BBC's, the multi-switch and it still happened. So I had Directv come out and replace my AT-9 Sidecar with a AU-9 Slimline and the problem stopped.


SParker,

Was your problem limited to HD local channels only (as mine was)? Or did you have problems with other HD and standard def transponders, too?

Remember, I had perfect reception of everything except for my four local HD channels that are delivered by TP5 on Satellite 99. When my pixelation problems were occurring on these four channels, I had excellent (97-98) signal strengths on both of my HR20 tuners and the same strength reading on my single H20 tuner. Changing over from Rev 3 to Rev 4 BBCs had no positive or negative effect on the signal strength on all three tuners, either. The only thing that greatly reduced my intermittent pixelation problems on both receivers was replacing the 5 LNBs at the dish assembly.

Anyway, thanks for your input.


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## ofuster (Apr 30, 2008)

mangusta1969 said:


> Thanks for your thoughts, but having no HD reception on ABC, CBS, NBC, and Fox locals simultaneously indicates to me that there is a DirectTV equipment problem at my end or there is a DirectTV uplink problem at their end, not with local conversions from 4 different TV station sources.
> 
> Thanks for the information on the spot beam transponder zeroes varying from location to location. Unfortunately, I have no possibility of HD reception from installing an outdoor antenna. Getting HD locals from DirectTV was a major factor in selecting DTV over DishNetwork. I just hope DTV can deliver them reliably. I guess I will place a service call for my new installation if local HD performance does not improve within a few days. I have already had two installation visits in the last 3 weeks, with lots of major headwork errors occurring on the first installation.


I have a very similar problem. I am getting 0 signal readings for all even numbered transponders on SAT 101. These carry the local network stations. This is only happening in the evening hours rain or clear.


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## ofuster (Apr 30, 2008)

I have a very similar problem. I am getting 0 signal readings for all even numbered transponders on SAT 101. These carry the local network stations. This is only happening in the evening hours rain or clear.

Did you ever fix the problem. I was told by a technician that there is a new 5 LNB antenna that solves this problem. Please advise


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## mangusta1969 (Oct 11, 2007)

Ofuster,

My periodic loss of reception on JUST my local HD channels was almost completely solved by changing out all 5 LNBs with a new LNB assembly. 

Then I had some occasional polarity switching problems. For example, when I went from channel 2 (a local channel) to channel 355, my HD20 receiver would sometimes not make the channel change (giving me a 771 error) and would sometimes take 10-15 seconds to make the channel change. When I changed out a single barrel connector going from my wall RG59 cable to the BBC input, this polarity switching problem went away completely. I will see if I can find that old thread and give you a link to it, as well.


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## kokishin (Sep 30, 2006)

You have an AU9 dish?



mangusta1969 said:


> DTV finally fixed my intermittent pixelation problems with my HD local channels!
> 
> Since it is now almost two months since my last repair visit, I thought I would post my long term results, since it may help others. Also, I really appreciate all of the suggestions that everyone made several months ago to help troubleshoot my installation last fall.
> 
> ...


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## mangusta1969 (Oct 11, 2007)

Kokoshin, I have a 5 LNB slimline dish. It was installed in October 2007.

Ofuster, here's my barrel connector/polarity switching problems story: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=122621&highlight=barrel

Hope this helps with the resolution of your problem.


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## kokishin (Sep 30, 2006)

5 LNB slimline dish = AU-9.



mangusta1969 said:


> Kokoshin, I have a 5 LNB slimline dish. It was installed in October 2007.
> 
> Ofuster, here's my barrel connector/polarity switching problems story: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=122621&highlight=barrel
> 
> Hope this helps with the resolution of your problem.


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