# wireless joey access point netgear help



## Gadget207

I just got a hopper with sling/wifi, and 2 wireless joeys. Access point hardwired to hopper, joey in bedroom works fine, in detached garage, fail. When I have it in the house closer to the hopper, it works, so not an equipment problem... it's a range problem. Was initially told by Dish Adv. Tech that once configured, I could move the WAP away from Hopper and it would work without being hardwired over wifi. That turns out to be false. Was then told by the installer that I needed a netgear wifi router to link to the hopper wirelessly and Ethernet from netgear to WAP, and he left me a netgear WNR1000. I just want TV in the detached garage. Internet is not part of the equation here. Just want to watch TV.

Is there a trick to this? The hopper isn't playing with the Netgear right out of the box, so....what now?


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## bbohl

The netgear is just another access point (wap). One way to extend the range is to place the netgear closer to the garage, configure the netgear to bridge the network of the dish wap over wifi, and configure the garage Joey to point to the netgear. In theory you could flip the netgear and dish's wap, but you would need to know how to get into the dish wap settings.

I should note that some people don't get good results with this setup (not specific to dish). The most reliable setup is to connect access points to the network over Ethernet. If you can connect the second access point to either the hopper or dish wap using Ethernet, that is preferable. Of course if you could do that I might just try moving dish's wap to that location, but your other Joey might be impacted.

I think your choices are:

1. Hopper -> (Ethernet) dish wap -> (Ethernet or wifi) netgear -> garage Joey. Other Joey points to dish wap or netgear, probably prefer dish wap.
2. Hopper -> (Ethernet) netgear -> (Ethernet or wifi) dish wap -> garage Joey. Other Joey points to netgear or dish wap, probably prefer netgear.
3. Hopper -> (Ethernet) dish wap -> (wifi) other Joey and Hopper -> (Ethernet) netgear -> garage Joey
4. Hopper -> (Ethernet) dish wap -> both joeys (need to move location of dish wap)

I am assuming dish's wap connects to the hopper over Ethernet. #3 assumes both Ethernet ports are active on the hopper. You could also try getting a wifi signal app on your phone or laptop (I believe they would need to support 802.11n on 5ghz) to see the wifi signal strength and possibly any overlapping signals from another device.



Sent from my iPad using DBSTalk


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## Gadget207

Update...apparently it does work out of the box if I don't use the uplink port in the netgear...oops.

What I have now is weak signals all over...it's enough to see TV but it's a bit sketchy. The netgear and WAP are in the bedroom closet on a high shelf, weak signal to hopper and weak signal from WAP to the wireless joey in the detached garage. My assessment is the hopper wifi and the wireless joey transceivers are weak as water.

So, what I think I need in the closet is a Netgear with a higher gain antenna and a higher output power.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

PS...the docs say wireless joey range to WAP is max 200ft. Maybe over a 190' pond, but my experience is signal goes to **** at half that distance.


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## Gadget207

bbohl: thanks for the reply. Here's what I have now...

Hopper -> WIFI -> Netgear -> Ethernet -> Dish WAP -> Dish Wireless -> Garage Joey & Bedroom Joey.

I am avoiding premise wiring wherever possible. 12" patch cables between devices that are together is ok, but I'm not doing long cable runs.

I'm interested in your suggestion to "configure the netgear to bridge the network of the dish wap over wifi, and configure the garage Joey to point to the netgear"

Can you elaborate further? This would be your Option #1. Is there a certain Netgear I should buy (for better performance then this cheap thing they gave me), and how does it need to be configured? Can this cheap thing be configure to do what you suggest so I can try it before buying a better device?


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## nmetro

Wireless range is quoted when there are no walls and obstructions in the way.

I would read this:

http://www.trustedreviews.com/opinions/802-11ac-vs-802-11n-what-s-the-difference

It may help answer some questions. also, not all wireless access points and router are created the same.

And this will be helpful:

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2398080,00.asp


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## Stewart Vernon

To be fair here... you are talking about accessing your home Wifi through at least two walls (house + garage), possibly several more... and you're talking about access in a detached garage. While you're not trying to do something against the terms of service, you are trying to do something that I don't think Dish probably tested/intended for the Wireless Joey... use in a detached garage. That's asking a lot from home WiFi networks to supply a solid signal to two different buildings.


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## bbohl

Hopper -> WIFI -> Netgear -> Ethernet -> Dish WAP -> Dish Wireless -> Garage Joey & Bedroom Joey.

Is that really true? I know the hopper has a built-in Wifi client, but I haven't heard anything where the Hopper can act as an access point. How did you setup the Netgear to talk to the Hopper?


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## Gadget207

bbohl said:


> Hopper -> WIFI -> Netgear -> Ethernet -> Dish WAP -> Dish Wireless -> Garage Joey & Bedroom Joey.
> 
> Is that really true? I know the hopper has a built-in Wifi client, but I haven't heard anything where the Hopper can act as an access point. How did you setup the Netgear to talk to the Hopper?


True. The Hopper has WIFI, and sees the Netgear in Settings > Network > Broadband > Wireless Setup. Netgear is vanilla out of the box, no config done there. The Dish WAP is Ethernet patch cabled to the Netgear, both in the closet, no wires to Hopper. The wireless Joey's both see the Dish WAP, and through the connected Netgear they find the Hopper.

I can pick up a Netgear Nighthawk R7000 and a Netgear A6200 USB adapter this afternoon, so I may need help in setting things up, please?


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## Gadget207

Got the nighthawk, and certainly signal to the closet is better for the hopper, but of course no better from the tethered WAP to the garage. Obviously I need to get the wireless joey in the garage to use the much stronger network...how?


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## bbohl

According the video below the wireless joeys are setup using WPS. I believe you need to get into the Netgear admin web page, activate WPS, and go to the wireless joey under Settings->Network Setup (I think Connect or maybe Access Points). It should also work with the Netgear, not sure if there is anything you have to do on the Netgear beforehand though. There doesn't appear to be a WPS button on the Netgear, which means you have to activate it from the admin page. The video also has another suggestion of using a HIC to move the WAP to a better location (something the installer probably should have suggested).

Video: 




Netgear Instructions: http://kb.netgear.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/24094/~/how-do-i-use-the-wps-wizard-on-my-nighthawk-r7000-router%3F


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## Gadget207

With the Nighthawk, I first tried to set up Bridge Mode, using the SSID of the Dish WAP (shown by the hopper), and Security Option of None since I don't know the passphrase of the Dish WAP. Apparently the Dish WAP has a super-secret passphrase, so this didn't work.

Next with the Nighthawk (after doing a factory reset) I tried setting it up as a wireless repeater, as this only requires setting an IP on the Nighthawk (I used 192.168.1.250) and the MAC address of the Dish WAP. This didn't work either, and I rather thought it should have.

I will try WPS and report back shortly.


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## bnewt

very interested in the wireless joey setup. seriously considering the jump, but I would like to hear more comments..........positive & negative about the limitations of the system. I presently have a 722 connected to a wireless setup for an upstairs tv. It works well. 

Shouldn't the wireless joey work at least that well? I plan on having the access point in a bedroom, with the wireless joey in the adjoining room and another wireless joey in the kitchen maybe 50' distance, but would have to go thorough a couple of interior walls. would anyone like to venture a guess on how that would function?


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## bbohl

bnewt said:


> very interested in the wireless joey setup. seriously considering the jump, but I would like to hear more comments..........positive & negative about the limitations of the system. I presently have a 722 connected to a wireless setup for an upstairs tv. It works well.
> 
> Shouldn't the wireless joey work at least that well? I plan on having the access point in a bedroom, with the wireless joey in the adjoining room and another wireless joey in the kitchen maybe 50' distance, but would have to go thorough a couple of interior walls. would anyone like to venture a guess on how that would function?


If you are currently using the 5 GHz band, then I'd say there is a good chance it would work just as well as the existing setup. The 2.4 GHz band has better range than 5 GHz and the DISH WAP operates on 5GHz. If your existing wireless access point/router has 5 GHz, then you could try moving it to the desired location and test the signal with an app. Wifi Analyzer is good for Android. InSSIDer for a Windows laptop. I don't know of an IOS/OSX app. Just keep in mind that different access points can have different results.


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## bnewt

would I have to have new cable run from the dish to install 2 hoppers. not sure what the present cable is


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## Jim5506

In going from 1 Hopper to 2 Hoppers, you must change the node from a single to a double and run a 3GHz RG-6 coax from the duo-node to the new Hopper.


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## scooper

Something else you might try - get a couple of those ethernet-over-powerline adapters for the Joey in the detached garage (I'm assuming you are on the same wiring) - this may or may not work but it maybe worth a try.


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## Gadget207

The final solution was ultimately the simplest. The Dish WAP is in the box and will be returned for the $50 credit. In the closet is a Netgear Nighthawk, vanilla config out of the box (I factory reset it to be sure since I'd mucked around with it).

There are no Ethernet cables connecting the Hopper, Nighthawk, or Wireless Joeys required...if you want to connect a laptop to the Nighthawk by cable or WiFi to see the connected devices, or for other aspects of your network that's optional and/or outside the scope of this solution.

Here are the install steps after the Hopper with Sling (WiFi) is activated and has done its download process...

Power up the Netgear Nighthawk.
On the Hopper w/ Sling, in Settings > Network Setup > Broadband > Wireless Setup, establish WiFi connection to Netgear
Power up the Wireless Joey (do them one at a time if doing multiples)
On the WJ in Settings > Network Setup > Access Point, move to the Connect button and hit Select, and as the screen instructs, go press the WPS button on the Nighthawk (far right indicator light is the WPS button) and wait up to 2 minutes for them to sync. The screen will change saying it's looking for a Hopper, and will find it through the Netgear network and you'll get TV.
Repeat steps 3 & 4 for each additional WJ.
Through the WJ Remote, I can fully control the Hopper DVR functions as one would expect, watch live and recorded shows, etc.. Audio is clean, video is smooth, not stuttered or pixelated...looks fine.

Signal strength is about 40 in the garage, about 60 in the bedroom, and about 75 between Hopper and Nighthawk.

Distance from Nighthawk to WJ in detached garage is about 80' through two exterior walls, and up here in Maine they're built with thick heavy hardwood.


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## nmetro

This is very useful to know. That the Nighthawk's range is much larger than DISH's Wireless Access Point. While I do not plan to run this to the garage, if i chose to set up a Wirelsss Joey the signal would have to travel through a floor, four walls, and go about 25'. This is what is between my master bedroom and the Hopper.

I think, in my case, I see a Super Joey, in the future. A Nighthawk is a $150 to $200 device. And it much more useful than just be an access point.


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## Gadget207

nmetro said:


> ... if i chose to set up a Wirelsss Joey the signal would have to travel through a floor, four walls, and go about 25'. This is what is between my master bedroom and the Hopper.


Since the Nighthawk does NOT need to be wired to the hopper, you can put it anywhere you can get power to it, so a hallway location or upstairs closet that divides what the signal has to pass through may be helpful, i.e. the hopper signal may only have to pass through a floor and a wall to get to the Nighthawk and then the WJ only needs to connect through a couple interior walls to reach the Nighthawk.


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## bnewt

so if I am understanding this correctly............the nighthawk is a better product than the dish product, gives greater range + does not have to be connected to the hopper as the dish product does. Are there different models. Will dish allow the use of this product for new installs with wireless joey's?


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## bbohl

Glad you got it working. Are you using the 2.4GHz or 5GHz band?


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## Gadget207

bbohl said:


> Glad you got it working. Are you using the 2.4GHz or 5GHz band?


Everything is on 802.11ac 5Ghz Ch. 153


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## Gadget207

bnewt said:


> so if I am understanding this correctly............the nighthawk is a better product than the dish product, gives greater range + does not have to be connected to the hopper as the dish product does. Are there different models. Will dish allow the use of this product for new installs with wireless joey's?


All correct.

Dish has been out to see the final solution, and it's allowed, and they even agreed to take back their WAP and refund the $50.

The Netgear Nighthawk R7000 ac1900 is what I used.


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## Stewart Vernon

That's good that you got it all worked out. I suspect Dish never originally intended the Wireless Access Point to cover a detached garage. I suspect it might also not cover some larger homes or older homes with thicker walls. Dish might have to reconsider in the future their setup and either supply a stronger Access Point or perhaps work up a network of multiple Access Points to accomplish configurations like yours.


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## Gadget207

I think the requirement of Dish's WAP to be hard wired to the Hopper is a serious limitation. Being able to locate that in a more centralized / convenient / range-appropriate location and leveraging the Hopper's built-in WiFi as I've done with the Nighthawk would be a good improvement just for larger homes. Certainly a stronger radio would also help.


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## bnewt

Gadget207 said:


> I think the requirement of Dish's WAP to be hard wired to the Hopper is a serious limitation. Being able to locate that in a more centralized / convenient / range-appropriate location and leveraging the Hopper's built-in WiFi as I've done with the Nighthawk would be a good improvement just for larger homes. Certainly a stronger radio would also help.


with your setup...........would it be possible to link additional hoppers? would that even be of benefit for someone that had multiple hoppers & wireless joey's?


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## Gadget207

I'm not sure what problem multiple hoppers solves, other than perhaps more concurrent recordings, and I haven't got a 2nd hopper to mess around with, so I'm not able to speak on the subject, but surely someone else on here may have more useful advice.


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## i-spy

Thanks for the useful info from Gadget207 and it works out perfectly. 

However, Dish is now giving me hard time to return the WAP and doesn't want to refund my money. The customer service said once they remove the WAP from my account, the wireless Joey will be disabled. Is that true? Could anyone shed some light on this? Thanks!


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## Gadget207

Unfortunately, training among CSR's has been erratic in my experience...it's a bit of roulette who you get on the phone. Ask to get escalated to a supervisor.

I made no "excuse" however. I told them exactly why I didn't need it, and one of their installers even came by the house at my invitation to show them what I had done and how it worked. It's still working today. It may not be "by the book", but it's not in violation of terms either. Simply put, their WAP is a router just like the NightHawk...the latter is just better and their WAP is redundant / unnecessary.

You're not seeking a change in service, you're only seeking to return the extra equipment (they'll send you an empty box for it) and credit for the $50.

Just keep being persistent and honest about the install is all I can tell you.

Edit: It may be relevant that I returned my WAP within days of getting it. If you've been using their WAP for nearly a year, YMMV.


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## i-spy

Got it. Thanks a lot! Will ask for the supervisor.


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## hennesseystealth

I just threw out U-verse and moved to Dish (U-verse lost their signal to my house due to their port box getting flooded and too cheap to fix it). I have a Hopper 3 with Sling, 2 wireless access points, and 4 wireless joeys. Two of the WJ have poor signal (upstairs and across the house). They keep freezing and pixelating.

The solution says you just need power to the Nighthawk, so I am assuming you are just using it for a WLAN inside the house and don't care if it has broadband connection to the Internet.

On the other hand, my ISP is Comcast and their wireless router is worse than what AT&T used (signal in my office dropped from -61db to -72db). Can anyone give me a good solution that will provide me a better cable modem and a much more powerful wireless router? I would love to have a single solution that cures the WJ issue and the WiFi signal.

Thanks.


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## hennesseystealth

Well, struck out getting the WJ's to connect to the router (Nighthawk X6 R7900). I followed the instructions on WPS on the router but the WJs say that they can't find a network. So, I went into the Internet setup and it can clearly see the 5GHz networks. I tell it to connect and it asks for the key, but as soon as I save the key, it jumps straight to the WPS setup screen where it once again says it can't find a network.


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## Gadget207

You shouldn't need to enter any key with the Joey's...only the hopper needs that...I think...it's been a couple of years since I set that up. The WPS feature should be all you do for them after the Hopper is up and running on the Nighthawk. When we arrive in the summer, we turn on the Nighthawk first, then the Hopper, then the Joeys and it all just works. I haven't touched the setup in 2 years.

You have the Dish WAP's shut off, right?


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## hennesseystealth

Yes, my procedure was pretty straight forward and followed what you wrote. First, the modem/router that Comcast provided was very weak, so I bought a Surfboard cable modem and the Nighthawk X6 router. I provisioned the modem with Comcast and then added in the router. I tested all my WiFi devices to make sure everything was working normally, and it was. Next, I re-setup the H3 for Internet and selected the second 5GHz channel as that had the best signal strength.

I then disconnected the WAPs and pulled the power. I then went to the WJ that was closest to the router (6') and pulled the power and then let the box reset. When it did, it had no TV signal as expected. I then went into the network setup (menu is a bit different than what you wrote, but close enough). It went into WPS setup mode and I hit the WPS button on the router. After 2 minutes, the WJ said it couldn't find any networks. I tried this several times with the same results.

That's when I went into the WiFi setup mode on the WJ to see if it could actually see the network and it showed both 5GHz channels.


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## Gadget207

Only thing I can suggest is shut everything off, leave the internet modem and WAP's off, start the Netgear first and wifi-link the H3 to that, then the WJ's and try to just get TV alone first.


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## Gadget207

For all I know you can't have internet on the same router as the hopper and joeys.


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## hennesseystealth

Gadget207 said:


> For all I know you can't have internet on the same router as the hopper and joeys.


So you don't have an Internet connection to your Hopper or do you connect via a different router?


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## Gadget207

By family agreement, internet is banned from the summer lake house.

Ok, not quite...if one can get cell signal, one can try to use one's phone and data plan...but don't let mama catch you.


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## hennesseystealth

I added a Nighthawk AC1900 without any Internet connectivity and ended up with the same results. I can connect the H3 to the router without any issue, but when I try to connect a WJ, it can see the network but will not connect either with WPS or manual connection selecting the SSID and entering the key (password).

I am wondering if the firmware in the H3 or WJ's have changed to prevent this from working.


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## Gadget207

What settings, if any, have you changed in the Nighthawk?


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## Irish Shark

None. Reset to factory specs.

"Tried the setup with no Internet connection using a Nighthawk AC1900 and the WJs will not connect to the router regardless of what you try. If the OP on the DBS site got it to work, then something has changed with the hardware in the past 2 years. The WJ can see the 5GHz network, but that's all."


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## Irish Shark

That is how the Dish Network works. A modem, or other source to the Internet, is connected directly to the router. The router is connected to the Hopper and the Joeys are connected to the Hopper. All on the same LAN.



Gadget207 said:


> For all I know you can't have internet on the same router as the hopper and joeys.


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## Gadget207

Irish Shark said:


> The router is connected to the Hopper and the Joeys are connected to the Hopper. All on the same LAN.


Those connections should all be possible over wifi...none should require a cable.


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## hennesseystealth

Gadget207 said:


> What settings, if any, have you changed in the Nighthawk?


Straight out of the box. Nothing changed from the factory defaults.


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## Gadget207

I'm a little confused about you seeing 2 5Ghz channels...one would be the Nighthawk...where's the other coming from?


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## hennesseystealth

Gadget207 said:


> I'm a little confused about you seeing 2 5Ghz channels...one would be the Nighthawk...where's the other coming from?


When I was using the Nighthawk X6, it is a tri-band router. It has a single 2.4GHz radio and 2 different 5GHz radios. Those last 2 radios broadcast on different channels, one around 44 and the other around 153.

The AC1900 is only dual band, so only one radio for each frequency.


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## Irish Shark

The router is wired to the Internet. What ever device it is a modem, a DSL connection, GPON, dedicated T2, etc. That is how the folks with Dish do it because they make the rules and it is much better than a wireless connection to the Internet. Off the top of my head, I really do not think that I have ever seen a wireless modem. If one existed, then it might be possible to connect all wireless devices electronically. 

And taking it a step farther, what router supports a wireless connection to the modem (the Internet)? If any of the two exist, and are not cost prohibitive, I will purchase them both and see if it works as a replacement to my current moderm & router.

The word "connection" does not imply ALL devices or configurations are wired. If you have a non-wireless component, it is not going to connect without "somekind" of physical connection.

Keep in mind that I am talking about your statement of Internet cannot coexist on the same router with a Hopper and Joeys.


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## Irish Shark

I noticed that in you setup dialogue. What caught my eye was the fact that the SSID is the same on all bands. I know that this is a highly debated point - Same - Not The Same. I really don't want to get into that here.

In my research on this project, I ran accross a post that said what the Dish WAP was using to the WJ. That is the freq. that the WJ is looking for to make a connection. I can't find it now. I'll go into deep memory and maybe I can find it.

Now Dish states that thier wireless 5GHz freq. does NOT interfere with your wireless network. How are they doing that? Is it in a freq. of the 5MHz which NO router can use? Or Are they freq. hop on the unused freqs? Or ..... ???



hennesseystealth said:


> When I was using the Nighthawk X6, it is a tri-band router. It has a single 2.4GHz radio and 2 different 5GHz radios. Those last 2 radios broadcast on different channels, one around 44 and the other around 153.
> 
> The AC1900 is only dual band, so only one radio for each frequency.


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## hennesseystealth

You can see all the 5GHz channels here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_WLAN_channels

The 5GHz WiFi channels that are used by off-the-shelf routers are a subset of the total available.

36, 40, 44, 48, 149, 153, 157, 161

My guess is that the WAP is using one of the 5GHz channels that is not accessible by off-the-shelf routers. I know the WAP is using something in this range as it can pick up the SSID for my 5GHz broadcast.

As for the SSID, I also tested with different SSIDs for the 3 bands on the X6 and the 2 bands on the AC1900. No difference in results.


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## Gadget207

If Dish has changed the hardware in the WAP and WJ's so they're no longer on a standard WiFi 802.11ac channel, that's disappointing. Could it be just something different in the Hopper 3? The solution posted for this thread was done before Hopper 3 existed. I just have a regular Hopper with Sling...not sure if they call that a Hopper 2 or....

Maybe there's an obscure setting in the Hopper 3 that has to be found / changed for the WJ to connect over Nighthawk WiFi.


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## hennesseystealth

Does anyone have access to Dish personnel that can verify that the current WAP/WJ is operating on channel 138? If this is the case, then I am not aware of any router than can successfully connect on that channel.


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## Gadget207

Gadget207 said:


> Everything is on 802.11ac 5Ghz Ch. 153


...for my Hopper with Sling setup.


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## hennesseystealth

My network reporting software shows no signal on channel 153, so that pretty much tells me that something has changed in the hardware.


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## Irish Shark

Software for Wireless Joey and Access Point is stored on the Hopper. Wireless Access Point is brained in the Hopper. Any changes can be done with overnight updates.

Dish got a new frequency allocation for a Wireless AP version 2. This happened two two years ago.


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## hennesseystealth

Irish Shark said:


> Software for Wireless Joey and Access Point is stored on the Hopper. Wireless Access Point is brained in the Hopper. Any changes can be done with overnight updates.
> 
> Dish got a new frequency allocation for a Wireless AP version 2. This happened two two years ago.


 :bang :blackeye: :down:


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## Gadget207

hennesseystealth said:


> My network reporting software shows no signal on channel 153, so that pretty much tells me that something has changed in the hardware.


I don't want to send you down a rabbit hole, but perhaps a wifi adapter in a Joey 2.0 works with a Netgear and H3 over wifi.
http://support.dish.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=861&p=104648&e=104648


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## hennesseystealth

Gadget207 said:


> I don't want to send you down a rabbit hole, but perhaps a wifi adapter in a Joey 2.0 works with a Netgear and H3 over wifi.
> http://support.dish.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=861&p=104648&e=104648


Yes, I have that on my plate, but the cheap Wifi dongles are 802.11 g and I am not sure if they will have the bandwidth for hi def signals. The AC dongles are a lot more expensive.


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## Gadget207

hennesseystealth said:


> Yes, I have that on my plate, but the cheap Wifi dongles are 802.11 g and I am not sure if they will have the bandwidth for hi def signals. The AC dongles are a lot more expensive.


I'd bet you'd need the AC dongles, but about all you can do is trial and error. Good luck.


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## aeontech

On my retailer demo system, my wireless joey WAP is currently on 5 Ghz channel 132 (5660 Mhz) with no SSID and WPA2 encryption. I would expect it auto selects a channel to use based on other devices in the area. I can see it using WifiAnalyzer on my phone and the manufacturer name is ECHOSTAR Technologies Corp.

Also just tested this setup and it is working. Hopper 3 connected to local wifi network, Wireless Joey WAP connected via network switch halfway across my office, Wireless Joey connected to Wireless Joey WAP via WPS.

This would mean to allow use in a remote detached garage you could use some affordable wifi bridge devices (ubiquiti nanostation loco M2 or M5 are my favorites for affordable links) connected to the LAN at main building and connect the Wireless Joey WAP to the other side of transparent wifi bridge to give you great signal in detached garage.


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