# BUG REPORT: DPP Separator DOES NOT WORK with the 921



## jsa_usenet (Oct 7, 2003)

[Update: 7/31/04 9:45AM:]

I have managed to get the 921 working with the Separator. However, it should be noted that I have *not* managed to get it to work on the same output as the power inserter.

To be clear: The 921 with a separator works on the "To Receiver In" ports 2, 3 or 4, not 1.

Also, for those interested in upgrading the software to support the DPP44 switch post install of the switch, the instructions state the following:

"Note: For DISH Pro Plus receivers to be installed using a single coaxial satellite cable, dish peaking and software upgrade can be completed with a Dish Pro or Dish Pro Plus LNBF connected directly to the SATELLITE IN 2 connection on the reciever and the TV associated with the connected tuner."

I was able to do it with the Separator installed, even on port 1, though it did not return to a usable state without switching to port 2, 3, or 4.

To quote the CSR: "It will work in the future, but currently only the 322 and 522 have the code to support the Separator."

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[Continued from previous post:]

In case you're interested: My 921 had 1.85 on it because it was packed in a box while I was moving since before 1.86 came out. When 1.85 is plugged into a DPP44 with a separator, it thinks it is hooked into a single feed with just one sat (usually 119), though it lets you into menus, etc.

The 921 successfully downloaded 1.86 in this configuration.

Once it rebooted, the 921 would not come up without two separate feeds to the DPP44 switch attached. With one feed attached, separated into two feeds, it hung on boot. With only one feed attached directly, it hung on boot. Only with two completely separate runs to the DPP44 switch will you even get to a menu to check switch.

Once you are at a menu, the 1.86 code will successfully recognize the DPP44 switch and behave "normally."

Breaking out the crimpers...

-j

--
Model ID: DishDVR 921
Boot Version:120B
Flash Version: F051
Software Version: L186HECD-N
Satellite: Dish 500 & 300 legacy - Orbits 119/110 61.5
Terrestrial: N/A


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## Mike123abc (Jul 19, 2002)

Several people have reported success using the separator with the 921, CSRs are often the last to know what Dish hardware will do.


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## Mike123abc (Jul 19, 2002)

Ok update report, I have been running 1.86 for a while with a DPP44 two feeds going to the 921 (had the feeds run before the DPP44 came out and was too lazy to hook up the separator). So, after the last report I whipped out my cable making kit and made 2 short cables (about 15" long each) and got the separator out. I unplugged the 921, removed both satellite feeds, then hooked the splitter up.

Plugged the 921 back in and waited for it to boot, did a switch test and it found a DPP44 on both satellite inputs. I went through each of the satellites and tuners on the strength and they all worked. It was interesting to note that tuner 2 registers about 5-7 points lower on signal than tuner 1 on all 4 satellites (119/110/121/61.5).

I tried out PIP with two satellite signals and was able to change channels on both tuners without issue. I will keep it this way and report if I have any future problems with it, but so far no problems yet.


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## jsa_usenet (Oct 7, 2003)

That's great, Mike. Some questions:

You had already been running on a DPP44 prior to using the Separator. Any thoughts on whether or not a successful orientation towards that switch needs to be in place prior to the separator being introduced?

Secondly, is your feed on the power inserter feed? I'll repeat your configuration and try it out.

-Jay



Mike123abc said:


> Ok update report, I have been running 1.86 for a while with a DPP44 two feeds going to the 921 (had the feeds run before the DPP44 came out and was too lazy to hook up the separator). So, after the last report I whipped out my cable making kit and made 2 short cables (about 15" long each) and got the separator out. I unplugged the 921, removed both satellite feeds, then hooked the splitter up.
> 
> Plugged the 921 back in and waited for it to boot, did a switch test and it found a DPP44 on both satellite inputs. I went through each of the satellites and tuners on the strength and they all worked. It was interesting to note that tuner 2 registers about 5-7 points lower on signal than tuner 1 on all 4 satellites (119/110/121/61.5).
> 
> I tried out PIP with two satellite signals and was able to change channels on both tuners without issue. I will keep it this way and report if I have any future problems with it, but so far no problems yet.


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## sampatterson (Aug 27, 2002)

I am using the separator on the same line (output 1 from the DPP44) as the power inverter with no issue. I bought all new 1 foot and 2 ft rg-6 to make my connections. No problems.


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## Mike123abc (Jul 19, 2002)

Yes I am using it on the power inserter port, the power inserter is about 12 inches behind the separator. I did that on purpose just to see it work. You definitely have to have the box boot and load 1.86 before using the separator. I did not try going from a SW64 to DPP44/separator, I had the DPP44 in place a couple days before I installed my 921. It had been running on the DPP44 for a week without the separator (mainly because it was raining here and I did not want to go pull the line to the new location of my 811 and have it use the DPP44 port that the 921 was borrowing).


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## jsa_usenet (Oct 7, 2003)

My 921 will not boot without two live feeds attached to it. I don't know if this is typical or not, but that is my experience.

I could not get it to boot at all with a separator in place if it was on the power inserter port. I have the power inserter about 12 inches from the switch and the separator at the receiver. If, however, with the same setup, I moved the feed to another port, it booted.

Any thoughts on why this might be? I'm open to suggestions.



Mike123abc said:


> Yes I am using it on the power inserter port, the power inserter is about 12 inches behind the separator. I did that on purpose just to see it work. You definitely have to have the box boot and load 1.86 before using the separator. I did not try going from a SW64 to DPP44/separator, I had the DPP44 in place a couple days before I installed my 921. It had been running on the DPP44 for a week without the separator (mainly because it was raining here and I did not want to go pull the line to the new location of my 811 and have it use the DPP44 port that the 921 was borrowing).


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## Mike123abc (Jul 19, 2002)

jsa_usenet said:


> My 921 will not boot without two live feeds attached to it. I don't know if this is typical or not, but that is my experience.
> 
> I could not get it to boot at all with a separator in place if it was on the power inserter port. I have the power inserter about 12 inches from the switch and the separator at the receiver. If, however, with the same setup, I moved the feed to another port, it booted.
> 
> Any thoughts on why this might be? I'm open to suggestions.


Perhaps your 921 is defective? It is hard to say the 921 has been so picky on so many items. But, quite a few people now report they can use the separator with the 921. Mine has only been in use a day now, so I could still run into problems some day with it.

Perhaps pulling the smartcard? Did you try pushing the "menu" key on the remote after booting? I went and did a switch test after installation. Like I said above a week on 2 feeds of a DPP44, unplugged, put it on, plugged it in waited for it to boot, did a switch test. Are you sure you have the outputs of the separator matched to the 921 (1-1 and 2-2)? Do you have RG-6 cable everywhere?

Essentially there are so many variables it could take a while to diagnose and it could come down to a broken 921.


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## Stingray (Dec 22, 2003)

jsa - I converted from SW64 (legacy) to DPP44 and seperators yesterday. It took about five trys before the 921 finally saw the switch correctly. I just kept trying different configurations and it finally worked. Others have suggested that the power inserter not be in the lead to the 921 however I see that its working for some in this thread. Best of luck!!!


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## jsa_usenet (Oct 7, 2003)

To answer both of you:



Mike123abc said:


> Perhaps your 921 is defective? It is hard to say the 921 has been so picky on so many items. But, quite a few people now report they can use the separator with the 921. Mine has only been in use a day now, so I could still run into problems some day with it.


Now that it's working, I doubt it's defective... It sounds like a chicken and egg problem with the 921 dealing with the DPP44 switch.



Mike123abc said:


> Perhaps pulling the smartcard? Did you try pushing the "menu" key on the remote after booting? I went and did a switch test after installation. Like I said above a week on 2 feeds of a DPP44, unplugged, put it on, plugged it in waited for it to boot, did a switch test. Are you sure you have the outputs of the separator matched to the 921 (1-1 and 2-2)? Do you have RG-6 cable everywhere?


Yes, I tried pulling the smartcard, no help. I tried pushing the menu key after booting, and it formally crashed the 921 and hung it up. Now that I've had once successful switch test after doing a two separate coax feed connection, THEN switched it to work on port 2 of the switch, it boots up cleanly.



Stingray said:


> jsa - I converted from SW64 (legacy) to DPP44 and seperators yesterday. It took about five trys before the 921 finally saw the switch correctly. I just kept trying different configurations and it finally worked. Others have suggested that the power inserter not be in the lead to the 921 however I see that its working for some in this thread. Best of luck!!!


I'm glad we've all found ways to get the 921 working with the DPP44 and a Separator, but Dish should be aware that the process is flakey at best.


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## Mike123abc (Jul 19, 2002)

After further thought on this I wonder if it is dependent on which transponders you were watching before you turned off the 921 to put in the separator. With DP doing band stacking, odds are on one band, evens on the other and the separator probably makes them both low on both sides. I wonder if you were tuned into an even transponder on tuner 1 when you tried it the first few times and it went crazy trying to lock back on to that transponder. Later you turned off your 921 on a different transponder and it finally worked... (or vice versa you were on odd and finally worked on even).

Yes it sounds like the support is half baked, it does not work reliably the first time and after fiddling around with it for a while it can be made to work for no apparent reason it will suddenly change its mind and work... I can see the release notes next patch, the 921 must be tuned to channel XXX before putting in the separator.


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

Mike: That's a beautiful piece of analysis!!! Considering all the similar problems that the 921 has with what channel it's left on when powered down - OTA vs. Sat - you've probably nailed it!

Now, what combination is most likely to work? I'll put my money on odd transponders on both tuners. I say that because odds are aways low-band regardless of Legacy, DP or DP+.

Fly in ointment would be if the #2 feed from the separator is actually high-band only, which is entirely possible (why bother to band-shift it?). In that case, the #2 tuner should be left on a even transponder. How to tell which is which? Dunno.

It could be especially problematic to go from Legacy directly to DP+ with Separator.


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