# H21-100: 0x4062 Issues / Discussion



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

H21-100: 0x4062
National rollout for this version began 3/24/08.

Release notes:
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=123686

Please keep discussion confined to issues only with this receiver.

Please don't post "Got it" or "Didn't Get it" posts, they will be deleted.


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## Arisian (Feb 21, 2008)

Our H21-200 receivers have updated to the new software. The problems with recurring autotunes continue to exist, specifically:


The 'reminder' shows up with back-to-back autotunes, ruining the first show.
Autotunes are resurrected from history, despite repeatedly being deleted.
Creating an autotune which conflicts with a current autotune is not handled properly -- The system happily says that it saved the autotune to the 'To Do List' but the count stays the same and the time slot is empty.
Modifying a 'Once' autotune to be re-occuring says it saved it to the list, but it in fact deletes the autotune, reduces the item count and shows as 'Cancelled' in the history list.
Creating a 'Once' manual autotune between midnight and (I'm guessing -- it's 3:29am and there are two now) 6am EDT has two entries for 'Today' in the 'When:' field.
Changing the time for a manual autotune results in the channel selected being changed from the SD to HD version of the channel (284 SCI becomes 284 SCIHD)
Mon-Fri manual autotunes fill 5 slots on the 'To Do List', but deleting any particular day's entry doesn't stay deleted, it's reincarnated from somewhere -- History?
Creating a 'Recurring' manual autotune between midnight and 6am requires selecting the day before the one you want the channel changed, to get a Monday autotune, select 'Every Sunday'.

On the 'feature' list are:

Clearing history requires receiver reset, deleting favorites, autotunes, etc.
Receiver does not turn off after an autotune, wasting energy.
The banner can't be disabled.
The 'Reminder' can't be disabled.

It's really, really sad that our old Hughes HAH-SA do a better job at tuning into programs and executing timers than these new fangled boxes do.

As someone who's written computer software for 25 years, this has got to be one of the finest examples of non-existent testing or quality assurance. Someone's very asleep at the switch.

I'm sending this to DTV, although I thoroughly expect a canned response and no action on any of these issues.


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## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

This thread is for the H21-100, you say you have a -200 and that is a different thread...


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## HD213 (Mar 27, 2008)

Does anyone know: How is the picture quality with the H21's . Any loss of signal problems like the H20's?


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## Arisian (Feb 21, 2008)

texasbrit said:


> This thread is for the H21-100, you say you have a -200 and that is a different thread...


Thread title seemed most relevant (same model, same revision) -- there is no H21-200 0x4062 discussion thread. Besides, this is totally software based issues, so presumably anything with 4062 would have the same problems.


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## Mightyram (Jan 9, 2007)

My H21-100 was recently upgraded to 0X4062 and now I have lost most of my HD channels (Searching for Signal (771). My other two HR21's receive the HD channel just fine.

I previously tried a cutting edge release with this unit and lost the HD channels and reverted back to the prior verious the next day. The HD channels came back with the older version of the software.

Does anyone know what is going on here? Is there a problem with my setup or is this strictly a software problem? I have used the Reset Everything to reset the unit back to factory default and then go through guided setup again and I still get the Searching for Signal (771) on my HD channels.

*EDIT: Swapped out the B Band Converter (BBC) Module and that resolved the problem.*


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## fjpatriot (Sep 25, 2007)

I have an HR21-100 running 0x4062. Ever since April/May we have been having severe issues. Twice a day or so we will turn on the receiver and it will not have ANY channels in the guide. We will reset it, and it will go back to the initial setup screens ( configuration , zip code, etc ) - NOT the normal guide download screen. After that we will not have any local channels. A real POS!

I have called DTV multiple times, and this is our *5th* receiver since June 08. This is NOT a hardware issue. When I got this 5th receiver, and the issues occurred again, I got someone in tech support who knew what they were doing, and after an hour of manipulating the packages in our account was able to get the locals back for us. Problem is the issue keeps occurring. The "fix" at that time had to do with us being an OLD DTV customer, and having a Total Choice package that no longer exists ( which is also cheaper than the current available one ).

IS there an update coming that will fix this issue, and/or is this a known issue? It really makes using DTV a pain if you have to reset the receiver once or more a day, and don't have locals.

Thanks,

Frank


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## EmmanuelGoldstein (Feb 12, 2007)

Who manufactures this particular receiver and creates the software for it? I need something specific enough that I can bypass the idiot-level troubleshooting people ("did you unplug your receiver, wait XX seconds and then plug it back in?") and talk or write directly to the idiot-level programmers of the software. Some of the software "features" are so incredibly illogical that it's clear to me that the people who programmed these "features" never had to use a receiver with their software loaded outside of testing it at work nor did their "supervisors" or team "leaders."

For instance, with my very OLD Hughes receiver, I programmed the auto-tunes and the receiver simply changed channels at the proper time as I wanted it to. If I'd changed my mind since it was programmed and wanted to stick with the current program, I'd simply hit the "Previous Channel" button. So, probably 90% of the time, I wouldn't even have to touch my remote. The D21-100 warns me every time it's about to autotune requiring me to pick up the remote _EVERY_ time in order to get rid of the rather large warning text and graphic. What an incredibly stupid "feature." Even if there were multiple people programming autotunes on the same receiver, all the viewer watching the channel would have to do if the receiver made an undesired (for them) autotune would be to hit the "Previous Channel" button. Dumb, dumb, dumb... I get to most of what I watch via autotunes, so this is a real pain.

And, maybe I've missed a way to change this, but the channels in the program guide are sorted by channel number rather than by name. Any way to change this when listing all favorite channels? If not, that is also incredibly stupid. I don't look for a specific channel based upon its channel number.

Finally, my old Hughes receiver would scroll (to prevent burn-in) the artist, title, CD and label for songs currently being played on XM radio channels. I've bought over 100 CDs based upon this data. All the 21-100 shows is an XM radio graphic. I thought one of the benefits that XM Radio would expect in their contract with DirecTV and which the artists expect from XM Radio for the use of their material is the promotion of their music with an eye to potential sales.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

The H21-100 is manufactured by Thomson and programmed by NDS under direction from DIRECTV.


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## EmmanuelGoldstein (Feb 12, 2007)

Stuart Sweet said:


> The H21-100 is manufactured by Thomson and programmed by NDS under direction from DIRECTV.


OK, I've found what I believe is the correct "NDS":

http://www.nds.com/about_nds/nds_offices.html

Do you know which of their many branches shown at the link above listed is directly responsible for the creation of the software used in DirecTV receivers?


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

That is the correct NDS.

Mr. Goldstein, I'm not quite sure what you hope to accomplish by contacting the manufacturers and engineers. Both Thomson and NDS work under strict instructions from DIRECTV. Time and time again, we've proven that posting here at the DBSTalk forum does get results, as DIRECTV personnel do read this forum. 

I cannot support you needlessly berating the staffs of Thomson or NDS. If you have a complaint with the functionality of your receiver, beyond that which you have already posted, please let us know here, or contact DIRECTV.


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## EmmanuelGoldstein (Feb 12, 2007)

Stuart Sweet said:


> That is the correct NDS.
> 
> Mr. Goldstein, I'm not quite sure what you hope to accomplish by contacting the manufacturers and engineers. Both Thomson and NDS work under strict instructions from DIRECTV. Time and time again, we've proven that posting here at the DBSTalk forum does get results, as DIRECTV personnel do read this forum.
> 
> I cannot support you needlessly berating the staffs of Thomson or NDS. If you have a complaint with the functionality of your receiver, beyond that which you have already posted, please let us know here, or contact DIRECTV.


Sorry, but as a retired satellite communications technician and software programmer, I have a very low tolerance for errors that would never have had even the slightest chance of passing the smell test in any operation for which I was responsible. When "features" are so obviously illogical, I think some "berating" is fully in order. If someone along the supervisory chain had done the same, the problems I mentioned wouldn't exist.

I'm glad to hear that DirecTV is so responsive to what is said hear. However, when it came to two major, day/weeks long technical issues with two channels (VBI visible on a local channel and serious, variable audio phasing shifts on an MX channel), problems that could only have come from the DirecTV uplink facility, it took a back-door route of going through a local broadcast engineer with a direct contact at the facility to get the issues addressed and fixed. My eagerness to go directly to the source is the result of my brain-numbing experience in dealing with "customer service" contractors.


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## drbonbi (Sep 10, 2007)

I think the real issue here is change - or resistance to it. 

Mr. Goldstein would like to have on his new H21-100 receiver the exact same features he had on his self-described "very OLD Hughes receiver." A custom piece of software perhaps? Or, maybe the way his old receiver worked is the way everyone's should work. If only he could get his message to the "right people" they would see the light. If they don't, then they are incompetent. If only he were in charge ...

But, he's not. And neither am I. That old saw still applies. "The only thing that never changes is change itself." I had a Samsung 360 HD receiver. It worked well with proprietary software. I dimly recall some features that may have resembled what Mr. Goldstein describes in Post#8 above. But, it became obsolete and I replaced it with an H20 receiver. Wow! A big change. I got used to it and find the new firmware that rolls out from time to time even better. Nice.

I find at age 75 that change is stimulating. I predict Mr. Goldstein will too, once he reconciles himself to the reality that he is no longer in charge and can let go of the past.

Dana


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## EmmanuelGoldstein (Feb 12, 2007)

drbonbi said:


> I find at age 75 that change is stimulating. I predict Mr. Goldstein will too, once he reconciles himself to the reality that he is no longer in charge and can let go of the past.


Change is stimulating, but the stimulation isn't pleasant for me unless the change in question makes logical sense. Moving the ignition key of your vehicle to the passenger side is change all right, but I doubt you'd like it. So, let's stop waxing philosophically about the merits of "change" and instead consider whether certain changes make sense.


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## drbonbi (Sep 10, 2007)

EmmanuelGoldstein said:


> Change is stimulating, but the stimulation isn't pleasant for me unless the change in question makes logical sense. Moving the ignition key of your vehicle to the passenger side is change all right, but I doubt you'd like it. So, let's stop waxing philosophically about the merits of "change" and instead consider whether certain changes make sense.


Sorry. I don't sweat the small stuff. :sure:

Back on topic, D* provided me with a Channel Lineup, an alpha list of channels in hard copy, on a stiff glossy 6" x 10" card, in the box my receiver was in. Updates can be found in alpha order at directv.com/channels grouped by packages.

On the XM channels I listen to, the info about song title, artist, CD title, etc., appears in the upper left hand corner of the screen. When the screen saver kicks in, the info is obscured but pressing any button on the remote brings it back.*

Dana

* Correction. The info appears when you press the Info button on the remote. The screen saver kicks in every five minutes which necessitates that you press the Info button again, etc.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

If it were up to me, every set-top box would have a hidden customization menu that would enable all sorts of things. I understand it would be a customer service nightmare though, and probably 99% of people wouldn't use it. 

I do think that you have some very valid suggestions, Mr. Goldstein. For example, the ability to group channels the way you want instead of the way they want would be great. 

As far as autotune, it doesn't get the attention it deserves perhaps, because the DVR tends to limit its use. But it would be great to have it configurable, I agree. 

There's absolutely nothing wrong with discussing alternatives to the current UI. I encourage it. The key to understanding why things are the way they are is simply majority rule. DIRECTV tries to have a common experience for all their receivers and that tends to mean an interface that won't satisfy the truly high-end user.


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## drbonbi (Sep 10, 2007)

In poking around using a Google Search, I came across mention that apparently E* has a screen saver that works on music channels as did Mr. Goldstein's old Hughes receiver (and I think also on my Samsung SIR-TS360 HD receiver) where the info on what's playing appears on an otherwise black screen. It was cool. 

Whether E* got this "feature" from use of TiVO software (the subject of litigation which TiVO has won, I believe.) is not known to me, but it does raise the idea in my mind that the "look and feel" of software is subject to patent. Both Hughes and Samsung used their own proprietary software and when D* brought out its own branded STBs and its own software, perhaps the feature that Mr. Goldstein liked so much was too close to a patent to copy. 

A Google Search also uncovered comments on another forum that this feature apparently has been recommended to D* frequently. So he has good company.

Dana


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## fjpatriot (Sep 25, 2007)

Any idea when the next update is coming? Haven't seen one since March/April, and yet again having issues. We were away for Friday and Sat, came home Sunday, turned the TV on, and no channels showing on the H21. Had to reset it to get the channels, and for a change we actually had local channels after resetting. Are others seeing these same issues, and need to reset the H21 almost daily???

Prior to upgrading to HD, I owned my own receivers ( sony ) and never had to reset the receiver, or saw these issues. I love HD, but its aggravating to have to reset the receiver sooooo much, and then going nights without local channels. Would really LOVE an update that fixes these issues!!!!!


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## fjpatriot (Sep 25, 2007)

fjpatriot said:


> Any idea when the next update is coming? Haven't seen one since March/April, and yet again having issues. We were away for Friday and Sat, came home Sunday, turned the TV on, and no channels showing on the H21. Had to reset it to get the channels, and for a change we actually had local channels after resetting. Are others seeing these same issues, and need to reset the H21 almost daily???
> 
> Prior to upgrading to HD, I owned my own receivers ( sony ) and never had to reset the receiver, or saw these issues. I love HD, but its aggravating to have to reset the receiver sooooo much, and then going nights without local channels. Would really LOVE an update that fixes these issues!!!!!


Note that my HD receiver got the upgrade 0x407e recently and I'm still having the same issues I mentioned above. Wierd. Today when I turned on the receiver it had the typical channel 0-0 displayed, and when I tried to display the guide said there were no channels in my favorites ( or the guide itself ). Had to do the normal daily reset to get any channels to list in the guide so we could watch something. At least it didn't do what it normally does and

1) go back to a complete reset state and require a setup to be done starting with the satellite setup screen.
2) even after the reset not show any local channels.

Both of these occur at least twice a week. Again, this is our 5th receiver since June, and they ALL behaved the same way, so it is NOT a hardware issue.

Guess I'm SOL until October when the next update might come around...


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## agentbigd (May 23, 2007)

fjpatriot said:


> Note that my HD receiver got the upgrade 0x407e recently and I'm still having the same issues I mentioned above. Wierd. Today when I turned on the receiver it had the typical channel 0-0 displayed, and when I tried to display the guide said there were no channels in my favorites ( or the guide itself ). Had to do the normal daily reset to get any channels to list in the guide so we could watch something. ...


I have had the same issue with this receiver on all of the national firmware releases. I turn on the receiver after it is off for a while and I have no channels in my favorites and the channel banner is 0-0. I have to reset the receiver to get everything back.


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## fjpatriot (Sep 25, 2007)

agentbigd said:


> I have had the same issue with this receiver on all of the national firmware releases. I turn on the receiver after it is off for a while and I have no channels in my favorites and the channel banner is 0-0. I have to reset the receiver to get everything back.


Exactly. I now have an H23 receiver ( latest service call ) and THE SAME THING HAPPENED! This is my *6* receiver, so its not a receiver hardware issue. I got it escalated in DTV, and if they find the problem I'll let you know. Next they are going to send a super-tech to check out the dish/ hardware yet again...


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## allans (Oct 8, 2008)

I've upgraded my Hughes HTL-HD receiver to the H21-100 to take advantage of the increased number of HD channels.

My SD picture quality on the new H21-100 is noticeably inferior to my old HTL-HD receiver.

Any advice is appreciated.


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## SledDog (May 6, 2007)

Arisian said:


> Our H21-200 receivers have updated to the new software. The problems with recurring autotunes continue to exist, specifically:
> 
> 
> The 'reminder' shows up with back-to-back autotunes, ruining the first show.
> ...


I do not have this model.. But I have an H20-100 that has this problem. It's had this problem for well over 8 months. I've posted about many times. I thought it was CE related, but I have gone back to the NR and I have the same problems.

I call it the "To Do List Clones".

If the H20-100 NR releases are any indication of getting this problem fixed, it will never happen.


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## SledDog (May 6, 2007)

I found a possible solution to the To Do List Clone problem with my H20-100. this may help with the problem on the H21

do not use the red button to delete autotunes. Select the autotune so you can see Autotune, Channel, When, Start and Duration. Then select Cancel Autotune. I have tried this the post week with each Clone that appears and it seems to work.

But there is definitely a problem with the way the red delete works with autotunes


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Has anyone been running an H20-100 successfully for any length of time with an SWM setup (specifically using one of the SWM - not legacy- ports)?


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## dlep (Nov 23, 2007)

fjpatriot said:


> I have an HR21-100 running 0x4062. Ever since April/May we have been having severe issues. Twice a day or so we will turn on the receiver and it will not have ANY channels in the guide. We will reset it, and it will go back to the initial setup screens ( configuration , zip code, etc ) - NOT the normal guide download screen. After that we will not have any local channels. A real POS!
> 
> I have called DTV multiple times, and this is our *5th* receiver since June 08. This is NOT a hardware issue. When I got this 5th receiver, and the issues occurred again, I got someone in tech support who knew what they were doing, and after an hour of manipulating the packages in our account was able to get the locals back for us. Problem is the issue keeps occurring. The "fix" at that time had to do with us being an OLD DTV customer, and having a Total Choice package that no longer exists ( which is also cheaper than the current available one ).
> 
> ...


Sorry about bringing up an old thread but I have the same issue. I have to go through the initial set up screen and then no locals are there. I use a link to refresh my receiver over the internet and that gains the locals, but going through the initial set up is a pain. I can do it, however, my wife and kids would not have a clue. Especially with the refresh over the internet part.

Did you ever find a fix?


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