# Lease Option for Existing Customers



## Mark S.

I'm curious to find out how many existing customers out there have been able to get the $250 lease deal done by contacting the Executive Office at DISH. I know I have read from several other members here that they were able to get it done and I did as well. So with that, please answer one of the choices on the poll.

Mark L. If this poll is inappropriate in this forum...I appologize and will understand if you move it.


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## Mark Lamutt

I'll leave it for now. But, if it degrades, it'll get moved.


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## primo

Color me "purchased"


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## Danno

I got the $250 lease deal yesterday via the Executive Office at Dish.

I was surprised how easily the deal was given to me actually. I don't have any complaints with my current boxes (owned 811, leased 510) - I simply told them I was extremely interested in leasing a 942. She then pulled up my account and told me they'd make an exception, even though the deal is normally only for new customers. My monthly Dish bill is currently only about $77 (AT120, locals, HBO, HDPack, Lease Fee, DVR Fee) and I've only been a customer for about 2 years, so the requirements must not be overly stringent for them to offer the lease.

After I sell my 811, my investment in the 942 should be pretty small ($50-$100), so I couldn't be happier. Thanks Dish!


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## jsanders

There should be an option in there that says something like, "I purchased the 942, not because I was impatient, but because it was cheaper for my circumstances."

By saying, "I was unwilling to wait so I purchased my 942", you are implying that the lease is always a better option. It isn't always better. :jump3:


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## Bichon

One of the reason that I purchased instead of leased is that they won't let you self-install on a lease. Mandatory professional installation is one of the reasons I never subscribed to Voom.


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## kstevens

Bichon said:


> One of the reason that I purchased instead of leased is that they won't let you self-install on a lease. Mandatory professional installation is one of the reasons I never subscribed to Voom.


I liked the mandatory install because they are providing the switch 44 for free. I would have otherwise had to pay around 200 for it.

Ken


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## Mike D-CO5

Couldn't wait and bought a 942 in April. 

Traded in the crappy 921 and I am in Heaven.:righton: Fixed my ota tuner problems by adding a cheap $3.99 attenuator from Radio Shack and all of my tuner multi-path problems went bye bye. Now getting solid signal from 75-90 and no more break ups . 

This is the best receiver Dish has ever made. I just wish they made it with 2 ota tuners . Can't wait till they offer the hard drive extensions so we can double the hard drive recording capacity. Dish is finally getting truely high tech . They are getting more and more like Tivo especially with the add on hard drives and the new dish pods. Mobile minature tv screens , 2" - 7 " , with small 20 - 40 giabite hard drives. If it wasn't so expensive I would get one. 

For the price of the 7" dish pod at $699.00 I could get another 942. I might just do that , I would love to have two of these receivers.


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## cleblanc

For those existing customers that leased a 942, were you able to do it without a commitment. The executive office also offered me the lease deal for $250 but said it would require a commitment. I was unwilling to do both, especially without knowing what the plans are for MPEG-4.


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## Mark S.

cleblanc said:


> For those existing customers that leased a 942, were you able to do it without a commitment. The executive office also offered me the lease deal for $250 but said it would require a commitment. I was unwilling to do both, especially without knowing what the plans are for MPEG-4.


They never mentioned the word commitment or anything similar to me.


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## Rob Glasser

Mark S. said:


> They never mentioned the word commitment or anything similar to me.


Ditto


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## RLMesq

How did you get to the "executive office?" Did you have to go through one of the usual customer service lines and work your way up the food chain?


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## KingLoop

RLMesq said:


> How did you get to the "executive office?" Did you have to go through one of the usual customer service lines and work your way up the food chain?


When you call to E*'s customer service the first person you get is the CSR, if that person can not resolve your issue then if you ask they will transfer you to a supervisor, if the supervisor can not reach an acceptable resolution then you can ask to speak to their supervisor, this would be an executive.


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## Rob Glasser

RLMesq said:


> How did you get to the "executive office?" Did you have to go through one of the usual customer service lines and work your way up the food chain?


E-mail [email protected]


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## RLMesq

KingLoop said:


> When you call to E*'s customer service the first person you get is the CSR, if that person can not resolve your issue then if you ask they will transfer you to a supervisor, if the supervisor can not reach an acceptable resolution then you can ask to speak to their supervisor, this would be an executive.


Woo-hoo! Thanks for the help in navigating through the first line of naysayers.

I got through to an "executive," who said she would research to see if I'm eligible for an upgrade. Just checked my home answering machine: 942 is on its way, with only the $250 upgrade fee. I'll have to check to verify what else they want.

Do they usually charge for installation on the upgrade?


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## datwell

No luck so far - but I'll keep trying.

Try#1 - Some fellow in India or the like - hung up on me. I never used bad language or raised voice, etc!

Try#2 - American with mountain(?) accent. Got to "supervisor" - he would not transfer me further no matter what "Not available" Someone is supposed to call me back sometime. 

Sigh.

da Doug


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## KingLoop

datwell said:


> No luck so far - but I'll keep trying...


The best thing to do when talking with customer service is to repeat their CSR or supervisor ID. This way they know you are keeping track of who they are for future reference. Ususally they are a little more amicable when they know you are keeping tabs.


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## datwell

cleblanc said:


> For those existing customers that leased a 942, were you able to do it without a commitment. The executive office also offered me the lease deal for $250 but said it would require a commitment. I was unwilling to do both, especially without knowing what the plans are for MPEG-4.


I for one, would have no problem with a lengthy commitment - in general, I like Dish.

I just wish I could get to someone who would enable the lease!!!

da Doug


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## HDjunkie

I've been a DN customer since March 97. And have always had Most of their programming for that time. All Premiums, distant networks, superstations etc.

Emailed the executive office told them that and got the 942 lease for $250.

They shipped it next day and scheduled an install for this thursday. I didn't argue about the "professional install" even though even if they insisted, all the tech would have to do is call them to activate when he got here

It arrived today and I installed it. Called Tech support to activate.

Told the tech it was installed, I was seeing all 4 sats on both tuners and was currenly watching the Dish HD Demo channel.

He activated the 942, de-activated my old 508 and cancelled the truck roll on thursday. No problem.

Works great so far.


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## bkress

Hi Everyone

I got mine after over 6 moths of problems with the 811, Today is the First day
it took some major complaining and man are they stuborn, I had to remind them I was a long time Customer (since 1997) and pay over one hundred bucks per month. 

I am so far impressed with the receiver, it has a few quirks this forum helps the 
questions I have

thanks
BUD


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## KingLoop

:welcome_s

Welcome to DBSTalk *HDjunkie* and *bkress*. Good to hear that current customers are getting the 942 lease.


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## datwell

Sheesh! Well, I don't know what more to do. I have been an E* subscriber since the 7100 (yes, I upgraded the HD) and have had America's Everything Pack, locals, etc. all along, prompt payment, etc. I have sent an email to [email protected] with all of this in it and have received no response whatsoever (no vulgarity or abuse in the email - doesn't belong in business correspondence or in internet forums, for that matter) and tried the 800 number several times to no avail.

I don't know what more to do??? How can I buy Charlie a beer or something? I just don't know what more to do???

da Doug


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## gdarwin

I guess you have to have 10 years in with E* to get and upgrade.... Got tired of all the excuses why I could not upgrade - I went out today and bought it  

Still learning how to operate this thing, but to me the PQ is a lot better than the 811...


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## Stewart Vernon

A while back I upgraded my leased 301 receiver to a leased 501 receiver. I think I paid a $50 upgrade fee... and while I didn't like the idea of paying $50 for a receiver that wasn't mine... I didn't want to pay several hundred to own it... so I was ok with that at the time and have enjoyed the DVR since then.

But the $250 upgrade fee to not own a 942 isn't something attractive to me. I bought my model 6000u years ago because they weren't offering them on lease... had I waited a couple of years I could have had an 811 on lease and not spent all the money... but at least I do own my 6000u receiver for the money I paid.

IF the 942 upgrade offer was similarly $50 I would do it... but I can't justify paying $250 for something that I will not own. Last I heard the purchase price was about $700, right? I suspect it won't be too long before sub-$500 942s start making their way into the marketplace as production catches up with demand... and then I'll probably look towards purchasing one to "replace" my 6000u and set that one in a closet for emergency backup use.

But $250 for the right to not own a 942? Even for all the good I've heard about it... that just doesn't work for me.


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## datwell

HDMe: I understand where you are coming from. My reasoning is as follows:

1) It's going to cost me $5 each month regardless if owned or leased (have AEP, HD,Voom)

2) It's going to be obsolete before it reaches the end of its service life (MPEG-4 Conversion is coming & HD subs will be changed out first, so we are told)

3) Therefore, the smaller initial outlay makes the most sense for me.

da Doug


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## Stewart Vernon

datwell said:


> HDMe: I understand where you are coming from. My reasoning is as follows:
> 
> 1) It's going to cost me $5 each month regardless if owned or leased (have AEP, HD,Voom)
> 
> 2) It's going to be obsolete before it reaches the end of its service life (MPEG-4 Conversion is coming & HD subs will be changed out first, so we are told)
> 
> 3) Therefore, the smaller initial outlay makes the most sense for me.
> 
> da Doug


I can't (and wouldn't) argue with you there... I'd have the same $5 per month fee as you either way as well... so I just weigh $250 against $700 right now... and I seriously can't justify $700, so that option goes away... and $250 is just too much for me to pay and not own it.

I think if they were offering a $100 upgrade I might even bite on that... but I just can't throw $250 at it since I love my 6000u and the only thing I'm really missing out is the ability to DVR my HD channels... so for the moment, I use my 501 to DVR any SD stuff that conflicts and watch HD when it is on... only had a couple of times when there were 2 channels showing HD that I wanted to watch at the same time, and usually things repeat enough for me to catch later.

But I know sometime in the next year I'm going to want to be able to timeshift my HD channels... so I hope the buy price comes down enough that I can do that... OR Dish gets friendly and makes a better lease-upgrade offer.


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## jtp1947

robglasser said:


> E-mail [email protected]


Rob, thanks for the link. I emailed echostar yesterday afternoon and within an hour a rep. called me back and offered me the lease for $250. I have been a customer for almost 4 yrs. and will be replacing a 921, two 301's and one 501. Jim


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## Mark S.

jtp1947 said:


> Rob, thanks for the link. I emailed echostar yesterday afternoon and within an hour a rep. called me back and offered me the lease for $250. I have been a customer for almost 4 yrs. and will be replacing a 921, two 301's and one 501. Jim


Jim,
If you own the 921, don't let them have it. They tried to tell me after I got the deal done that they would be sending me a box to send the 921 (that I own) back to DISH. I told them they could send me a box to return to them my leased 301 instead. I don't think they were too happy about this but at that point the deal had already been offered and paid for by credit card. :lol: Don't just willingly give the 921 to DISH if you own it. If your not planning on using it anymore, sell it on E-bay or somewhere else and recoup some of your cost for the 942 lease. I moved my 921 to another room where I had 2 feeds from my dp34 switch and an HD capable 27" TV to gain another 2 tuner PVR and will be sending DISH back their leased 301. 942 is now the primary receiver on my big screen. Good luck!


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## waltinvt

Hey all you existing subs that have been able to get the $250 lease deal: Didn't Dish ask you not to mention it on any of these bulletin boards ? 
I was told you give up your first born if you do. 

Anyway......Hypathetical existing sub 942 lease deal question :

If an existing sub WERE to actually get the lease deal and the 942 was replacing both a 501 and an 811; a 508 would remain active; they subbed to the AEP, Superstations, HD Pak + Voom channels, would their bill actually go down $5 a month ?

Trying to convince myself (oh alright - my wife) that this move will eventually pay for itself not counting anything I might get for selling the 811 & 501.

Ah the web we weave.:heybaby:

Hypathetically speaking of course.


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## Mark S.

waltinvt said:


> Anyway......Hypathetical existing sub 942 lease deal question :
> 
> If an existing sub WERE to actually get the lease deal and the 942 was replacing both a 501 and an 811; a 508 would remain active; they subbed to the AEP, Superstations, HD Pak + Voom channels, would their bill actually go down $5 a month ?
> 
> Trying to convince myself (oh alright - my wife) that this move will eventually pay for itself not counting anything I might get for selling the 811 & 501.


I believe you are correct, provided the 942 is connected to a Hypathetical phone line. 

With that being said, now you only need to convince the wife that it is a good investment and you will break even in 4 yrs and 2 months. :lol: (not counting anything you might get for selling the 811 & 501)


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## waltinvt

Mark S. said:


> I believe you are correct, provided the 942 is connected to a Hypathetical phone line.
> 
> With that being said, now you only need to convince the wife that it is a good investment and you will break even in 4 yrs and 2 months. :lol: (not counting anything you might get for selling the 811 & 501)


Hopfully she won't analyze quite as closely.


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## datwell

Ok, Ok. I emailed [email protected] again last night so we'll see what happens.

da Doug


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## datwell

Hooray! I emailed [email protected] Friday morning and around 5 PM I received a call from a super nice young lady at E* who offered me the 942 lease on the $250 + $5/mo. terms. I was so surprised to receive the call that I didn't ask many questions! She just said E* would be willing to extend the lease deal to me and I didn't fool around much after that - I wasn't going to let this one get away! Of course she had our account information at her fingertips, she asked for my credit card scoop for the $250, put it through quickly and told me the 942 would ship in a few business days. I told her I would prefer to do the installation myself and I have already run the second feed from my SW64 in anticipation of a dual-tuner unit. We scheduled a professional install date anyway, in accordance with E*'s policy; however, this can be canceled if the unit is activated beforehand. I told her I would be moving the present 811 lease unit to the bed room to replace my owned 4700/4900 and did E* want it back for a credit, etc.? She replied to the effect that E* had no redemption program for them and the unit was mine to do with as I pleased. One thing that really stood out about this contact was her comportment - pleasant, positive and professional! This lady knew her stuff and did it well! Oh, if only all of my contacts with E* and others I do business with were just like this one! Anyway, I am happily awaiting the arrival of my shiny, new 942! 

da Doug


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## richz

I have been a Dish subscirber for many many years, (I still have my old Dishplayer in a closet) subscribe to the Everything pack. I called and made my way up to the Executive Supervisor. I told him my story, and spoke quite a while about why I should get the @250 price but he kept saying that they are not making the lease price available to existing customers. It was a courteous conversation on both our parts, but he would not budge. I asked if there was anyone else I could speak with and he put me on hold for about five minutes. When he came back he said that the person was still on the phone and that they would call me back, probably in about ten minutes. I never heard back! I do not understand why they accomodate some subscribers and not others, especially when I have been loyal to them for so many years. it is hard to justify spending $700 for a receiver that does not work with MPEG 4 without the benefit of knowing their upgrade path. 

Rich


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## datwell

richz: Well, you can see what finally worked for me! Give it a try and good luck!

da Doug


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## richz

Oops...I spoke too soon. I left them two phone numbers, my cell phone did not indicate that I have a message but I decided to check it anyway and there was a call back from them after all. I will call them and post my results here. 
Thanks, Rich


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## Mark S.

datwell said:


> Hooray! I emailed [email protected] Friday morning and around 5 PM I received a call from a super nice young lady at E* who offered me the 942 lease on the $250 + $5/mo. terms.
> 
> Anyway, I am happily awaiting the arrival of my shiny, new 942!
> 
> da Doug


Congratulations Doug...Welcome to the 942 Club!!! I'm loving mine.


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## richz

I received a phone call back from Dish today form a very pleasent, helpful "executive supervisor" today. I am pleased to say that they offered me the 942 for $250, and I am looking forward to receiving it in a few days. She wanted me to trade in my old unit. I offered my very old dishplayer but she said that it was not necessary. I am looking forward to getting my new unit this week. Rich


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## shugazer9

I am a longtime Dish customer who sold my 6000 a few months ago with the idea of upgrading to the 942. I previously called and tried to lease the 942, but was told i needed to wait six months. I e-mailed Dish and recieved a call today from a nice lady who offered to lease the 942 to me,, but only if I committed to 2 years with at least AT60.(I would theen also need to pay $5 lease fee, $5 DVR fee, $5 non-landline fee, etc....) I could handle the fees, but im not sure whwther i'll be staying in my current location for 2 years. Sigh...it's always something.


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## lionsrule

I received the same company line as the guy above me. However, I did find out a few additional things. First, DISH is very close to ending this exception process for current customers. I was told that there are "too many customer asking to get the 942 for $250. Demand is outranking supply was the point I think. Also, I could NOT EVEN GET A GUESS for how a swap out might work when mpeg4 becomes prevalent. 

There is NO WAY that I'm going to throw away $250 just for the "right" to LEASE a box. I should not need to remind you that MOST MAJOR CABLE COMPANIES ARE leasing 2 tuner HDDVR's with ZERO "one time fee's". Dish and Direct have MAJOR business model flaws that are soon to be exposed once ALL cable area's are upgraded. I am NOT a cable fan. I HATE COMCAST and their laziness in upgrading our area over the last 3 years. I LOVE my 921 (for the most part) and I love getting high quality OTA HD signals for FREE!! I just wish dish would adapt the cable industries "give it away for free" policy of renting/leasing new tech boxes.


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## JM Anthony

While I had a pretty rough ride last week with my 921, all's well and I'm one of those who is going to sit tight for a while. I watch my locals quite a bit, struggled to get good OTA reception, and am not willing to roll the dice, at least not for a while. And besides, with the weather turning warmer and dryer, it's time to shift discretionary time and money to motorcycle riding.


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## Bichon

lionsrule said:


> I just wish dish would adapt the cable industries "give it away for free" policy of renting/leasing new tech boxes.


I also wish they would adopt cable's "give it away for free" policy of providing HDTV channels at no additional cost, but I don't think either is going to happen anytime soon.


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## NightRyder

Bichon said:


> I also wish they would adopt cable's "give it away for free" policy of providing HDTV channels at no additional cost, but I don't think either is going to happen anytime soon.


I don't expect cable to keep up this policy in regards to DVRs. Once they come face to face with the higher maintenance costs associated with DVRs, and they lose enough of them to theft, I expect at a minimum they will start requiring a hefty deposit. IMHO.

NightRyder


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## jcord51

Well I tried by calling the CSRs to get the 942 as a lease...no go! Contacted someone at the Executive branch...no go. Just finished writing a lease request to CEO, pending response.


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## Rob Glasser

lionsrule said:


> There is NO WAY that I'm going to throw away $250 just for the "right" to LEASE a box. I should not need to remind you that MOST MAJOR CABLE COMPANIES ARE leasing 2 tuner HDDVR's with ZERO "one time fee's". Dish and Direct have MAJOR business model flaws that are soon to be exposed once ALL cable area's are upgraded. I am NOT a cable fan. I HATE COMCAST and their laziness in upgrading our area over the last 3 years. I LOVE my 921 (for the most part) and I love getting high quality OTA HD signals for FREE!! I just wish dish would adapt the cable industries "give it away for free" policy of renting/leasing new tech boxes.


While I agree with you on wising dish would adopt the cable way of leasing wihtout upfront costs, comcast's Dual HDDVR is no where near ready for prime time yet. I know a handful of people with the Motorola 6412 and it is not reliable. Recordings are missed, partially missed, or so screwed up they are unwatchable more frequently than any Dish DVR I've ever owned. The recording time for HD is half of the 921/942, and have their own share of bugs. On top of that, their monthly rates, at least in the Seattle area, are no different than Dish's. In fact just last weekend I priced out Dish vs. Comcast, including all monthly lease fees for my Dad and they were within about $2.00 of each other. So what it came down to for me was, the additional initial $250.00 lease fee for the Dish 942. Since I had already invested $500.00 on the 921 from Costco, returning it and taking half to pay for the 942 was a no brainer. If I had not bought anything yet it still would have been a no brainer to pay for the 942. After spending 3k on a HDTV, another $250.00 for what appears to be one of, if not the best, HD DVR on the market today was no big deal. If I had a 921 and was not able to return it would I do the 942 lease deal? Probably not, the 921 was 'usable', but extremely frustrating at the same time. Since I was able to return the 921 and lease the 942 it will over 4 years of leasing the 942, including initial $250.00 before I'd even equal the $500 I was willing to pay for the 921. By then I would expect any MPEG2 Reciever to be obsolete and therefore worth little in resale.


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## cebbigh

Just placed my order for the 942 lease with ceo office (existing 921 cust). Had to overcome concerns about the ota tuner and the lack of svideo. Thanks to anyone who made comments pro or con.


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## kstevens

hey, to let you know, I'm using the rf connector to my TV and the picture still looks great.

Ken


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## datwell

I love this thing!!! We did the install on Saturday (5/28/05) - this thing takes the better part of an hour to initialize. Activation from E* was a snap. The unit went "bonkers" within an hour afterward with strange, horizontal yellow checkerboard-style bands across the picture, but a soft reboot (hold down the receiver's power button for a few seconds) fixed that - been fine ever since! 

The power off is also a soft power off - that is, the unit can be powered off and still record an event you have scheduled! Nice! The PQ is simply superior!

My only gripe is the HD to SD conversion - the "horizontal squish" with skinny people, etc. just doesn't cut it. The 811 gives a nice letter box format in this instance.

I have 61.5, 110 & 119 (Dish 500) - all legacy into a late-model SW64 - works like a champ!

Overall, I love this thing! :hurah: 

da Doug


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## bkress

I will agree with Doug, I have had mine now for a Couple of Weeks Its awesome, Need to Fix the Horizantal Squish I agree it sucks and I am Looking forward to adding the analog
channels, I miss my ouside camera's and with the PIP "EUREKA" The 942 is Great sure beats the old First Dishplayer


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## Phil Smith

2 weeks ago I was a D* customer and I had no trouble getting the $250 lease deal. Before I had a chance to ask, it was offered to me.

As others have said, I found the lease much more appealing than buying. I purchased an HR10-250 6 months ago for $900. That was a REALLY good deal at the time. I just sold it on ebay for $600. I was very fortunate to get that much. That's a $300 loss in 6 months! As far as I'm concerned, the lease deal is a no brainer.

Well at least I think it's a no brainer. I've seen a few mentions of $250 plus $5 per month. I don't understand what that means. Am I also paying a $5 a month lease fee? If so, I wasn't made aware of that!


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## Rob Glasser

Phil Smith said:


> Well at least I think it's a no brainer. I've seen a few mentions of $250 plus $5 per month. I don't understand what that means. Am I also paying a $5 a month lease fee? If so, I wasn't made aware of that!


Yes, there is a $5 a month lease fee on top of the one time $250.00


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## cebbigh

robglasser said:


> Yes, there is a $5 a month lease fee on top of the one time $250.00


Isn't that fee waived if you connect the phone jack?


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## Rob Glasser

cebbigh said:


> Isn't that fee waived if you connect the phone jack?


Nope, there is an additional $5 fee if you do not connect to a phone line on top of the $5 lease fee. So, basically if you get the lease deal, and do not hook it up to a phone line you are looking at:

$250.00 one time lease fee
$5.00 monthly lease fee 
$5.00 monthly DVR fee
$5.00 monthly no phone line fee


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## jsanders

If you lease, you also are required to subscribe to at least AT60 w/locals.

In my case, I don't lease, I don't have a lease fee, and I don't subscribe to AT60 although I do subscribe to locals for OTA guide data. 

That is about $27/mo, or $324/yr. Take that $324/yr with the $250 upgrade fee, and under that scenario, your break even point is 1 year, 4 months, and 20 days. (700 - 250)/324 = 1.39 years. The difference is that after 1 1/3rd years, you have paid out $700, and you don't even own the box for re-sale.

Look at the scenario now, for the most part, only new customers are offered this lease deal. When you 942 leasers are ready to upgrade to MPEG-4, E* will probably only lease it to new customers, and you will have to wait to upgrade. When you do, there might well be another $250 upgrade fee to it, and, on top of that, they may well make you wait 1 year, 4 months, and 20 days before they will allow it to happen. May as well just round it up to 18 months because that sounds good (like they are doing you a favor or something), they just want to recoop that $700 from you, and charge you another $250 to upgrade to the new box. $700 + $250 is speculation at this point, but it ain't cheapest route.

For me, I sold my 921 for $399, so my up-front costs (capitol re-investment) for the 942 was $300 (just $50 more than the lease upgrade), which is saved after 11 months. In the end, I own the 942, leasers don't. When the MPEG-4 receiver comes out, I won't have to wait to get it. I can sell the 942 quickly to get as much money from it as possible. Existing customers are allowed to buy new stuff, they just can't lease it right away.

That scenario is not for everyone, but in my case I don't want to eat the dog food E* dishes out in the form of a lease.

And, again, the poll is flawed in that implies that the lease is always better. Not true!


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## gijohn

First Post!!
I'm getting the 942 (lease) and am told of a Video On Demand charge. I've been a Dish subscriber since 1998 .. have never heard of this. I currently have 2 508's and a 2 month old Sony WEGA 50".


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## Rob Glasser

Well, the lease deal just got even better for me. At first I thought that I'd be paying $5 lease fee for my 942 and a $5 additional receiver for my 721. Looks like they are treating the 942 as my second receiver and so the lease fee just replaced my additional receiver fee I was paying on the 921, so basically my $250.00 one time cost is my only investment period, to get HD DVR service (921 returned for full value to Costco).


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## volfan615

Same story here. I think the cost went up 1 cent per month.


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## Rob Glasser

gijohn said:


> First Post!!
> I'm getting the 942 (lease) and am told of a Video On Demand charge. I've been a Dish subscriber since 1998 .. have never heard of this. I currently have 2 508's and a 2 month old Sony WEGA 50".


It's probaby the DVR Service Fee, another $4.98 a month and is charged on all DVRs except the 50x series and 721 Dish PVRs. The only way you can avoid it is to subscribe to their Everything Pak.


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## gijohn

Well .. I'm excited with the HD. I think I'm going to dedicate the 942 to the Sony 50" so I can utilize PIP. Great forum - lots of good info. Thanks!


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## Phil Smith

Well I wasn't informed of any of that. I probably would have bought one rather than lease if I'd have been aware of that info. That's quite irritating.


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## jsanders

Phil, I'm sorry you didn't know that sometimes buying can be cheaper than leasing. I've brought it up before in this thread:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=40809&page=3

Start with post #54 by the originator of this post, Mark S.

I brought this up the 2nd time in post #62 to let people know about it.

Mark S. responded in #63, with a disagreement (which is fine).

I countered his argument in post #65, and I was expecting some sort of counter for that. Instead, Mark S. decided to start this thread and forget about countering what I said. That is why I was irritated with his poll, as he was well aware of this information when he started it. You have done research Phil, as you posted in this thread in post #50 about converting from an HR10-250. What irritates me is that because Mark S. knew about this information and witheld it as an option in his poll and discussion in this thread, he mislead you to a small degree.

By the way, I objected to the limited scope of this poll and thread in post #5, no response.

The bottom line is that leasing can in some instances be cheaper than buying, and in other circumstances, buying can be cheaper than leasing. It all boils down to how many receivers you have, and how much programming you want to watch.


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## datwell

Yup. It depends upon your situation. We have the AEP, Locals, HD & VOOM and with the no DVR fee with AEP, the 942 is especially sweet! For us the lease option is the better deal. Ours is used as just a basic DVR for HD in single mode and we love it! BTW, we have all legacy LNBFs with a late-model SW64 - no problems, works just fine!

da Doug


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## Mark S.

jsanders said:


> Phil, I'm sorry you didn't know that sometimes buying can be cheaper than leasing. I've brought it up before in this thread:
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=40809&page=3
> 
> Start with post #54 by the originator of this post, Mark S.
> 
> I brought this up the 2nd time in post #62 to let people know about it.
> 
> Mark S. responded in #63, with a disagreement (which is fine).
> 
> I countered his argument in post #65, and I was expecting some sort of counter for that. Instead, Mark S. decided to start this thread and forget about countering what I said. That is why I was irritated with his poll, as he was well aware of this information when he started it. You have done research Phil, as you posted in this thread in post #50 about converting from an HR10-250. What irritates me is that because Mark S. knew about this information and witheld it as an option in his poll and discussion in this thread, he mislead you to a small degree.
> 
> By the way, I objected to the limited scope of this poll and thread in post #5, no response.
> 
> The bottom line is that leasing can in some instances be cheaper than buying, and in other circumstances, buying can be cheaper than leasing. It all boils down to how many receivers you have, and how much programming you want to watch.


Jsanders,

First off...I was in no way attempting to mislead anyone with this poll. I was simply curious as to how many people out there were attempting to lease a 942 as an existing customer and exactly how many had been successful in accomplishing it. Why don't YOU go back and read the very first post in this thread, appropriately titled: "Lease Option for Existing Customers" before you start telling me what I was thinking when I posted this. It was never posted as a poll to guage whether leasing is a better option vs. buying as you have repeatedly attempted to make it out to be.

If you really must know, I posted it to try and bring awareness to other members of this forum that DISH was in fact now offering the lease to existing customers if they knew exactly who to contact and how to go about doing it. I also wanted these same forum members to be able to confront DISH with hard numbers for approxiamtely how many people had already received the lease deal if DISH tried to deny them, thus making it easier for them to obtain it by having more ammo to fight with. If this poll helped even one existing customer obtain the lease deal from DISH, then it accomplished what it was designed for. Sorry if you feel otherwise.

If you want to run a poll regarding the "Lease vs. Buy" subject, feel free to post one up or if you need some help in posting the poll, let me know exactly what you would like the options to be and I will post it for you. That way we won't need to worry about misleading anyone who is not capable of making an intelligent decision on their own. 

Maybe the real underlying theme here has to do with some Sour Grapes being experienced by some folks out there that shelled out $700 for the 942 and are upset that others are now getting to use the same said $700 receiver for $250. Kinda like how I felt when my $1000 921 was reduced to $549. Ouch... 

Also, just so you know, when you responded that my wording on one of the questions was not to your liking regarding purchasing the 942, I spent about 45 minutes trying to go back and edit the poll with the option/wording you requested. The problem was, I could not find anyway to edit the poll once it had been posted, probably because it had already been voted on. Even if I had been able to change it, I would not have been able to word it exactly as you wanted and would have likely had to shorten it down to something similar to the option I did use due to character limits on all polls. After wasting that much time on it already, I didn't see any reason to justify another long response / explanation to your request.

Don't take this the wrong way. I'm not trying to start a flame war of verbal attacks between you and I. I totally agree with you that in some cases buying is better than leasing and vice versa. It all depends on ones level of programming and particular situation as robglasser, datwell, and many others have already stated. I personally own 2 of my receivers and lease 2 others. To each his own.

I'm not going to go through all the reasons again as to why I think a lease deal on a 942 at this point in time is the better option. If anyone cares what my opinion is on it, they can go back and read the discussion you and I had earlier on the topic from the link you supplied. Ultimately, it still boils down to each persons opinion and situation.

I do think though that Phil needs to understand that what you are explaining regarding your situation where you talk about saving $27 a month or $324 a year by purchasing is based soley on your choice to subscribe to the minimal amount of programming available and is not really a valid argument for a lot of people. With that kind of logic, I guess I could argue that I'm saving $60 dollars a year by subscribing to AEP which is realistically probably overpriced by that much each year.

I think that Phil also needs to be aware that many, many, of the scenarios you are tossing around regarding what will happen when MPEG4 comes out and what E*'s plans are regarding upgrade paths, time frames for swap outs, and costs to upgrade for owned boxes vs. leased boxes is purely speculation on your part and nothing more. I have heard a hundred different opinions of what will happen when MPEG4 comes out and when it will all go down. I have my own own hopes and ideas for how I would like to see it happen but ultimately, Charlie and a handful of his fat cats are probably the only ones who really know. Regardless of what it is, look for all of us to pay for it one way or the other, whether we choose to lease or own our equipment.

Anyway, this post has grown way to long for mine or anyone elses reading enjoyment so I will end it and say thanks to Jsanders for his comments and opinions whether I agree with them or not. I do however appreciate the constructive criticism and hope that we can remain cordial. Peace...out!


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## RLMesq

With MPEG4 on the horizon, I can't see dumping $700 on a 942 when I might soon be stuck with a boat anchor. The lease option was, by far, the most attractive to me.


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## Mark S.

jsanders said:


> For me, I sold my 921 for $399, so my up-front costs (capitol re-investment) for the 942 was $300 (just $50 more than the lease upgrade), which is saved after 11 months. In the end, I own the 942, leasers don't. When the MPEG-4 receiver comes out, I won't have to wait to get it. I can sell the 942 quickly to get as much money from it as possible. Existing customers are allowed to buy new stuff, they just can't lease it right away.
> 
> That scenario is not for everyone, but in my case I don't want to eat the dog food E* dishes out in the form of a lease.
> 
> And, again, the poll is flawed in that implies that the lease is always better. Not true!


Sorry Jsanders...I just couldn't pass this one up. No hard feelings.

I guess you could also look at your original scenario another way....

Assuming you paid $1000 for your original 921, selling it for $399 now puts you in the hole @ -$601. Now add the additional $700 out of pocket you paid for the 942 and you now have 1 (one) very expensive ($1,301.00) 942 receiver which you do now own. This same receiver which may or may not be obsolete in 1-2 years and you may or may not be charged to upgrade.

I on the other hand also paid $1000 for my 921. The difference being I opted to pay a $250 upgrade to lease a 942 and keep my 921 as a second receiver replacing a leased 301 that I didn't own. My out of pocket is ($1,250.00) and I have 2 (two) receivers. A 942 and a 921. I still have my 921 to use as my upgrade path when MPEG4 plans are announced and I may or may not be charged to upgrade. Additionally, DISH can either upgrade my leased 942 at their cost or offer a sweet upgrade option. If not, I sever the lease on this box and my total loss on it is still only $250. 

Now I know you will tell me how your saving $27 a month and $324 a year but your situation of one receiver and minimal amount of programming is rather unique and doesn't work for most folks. All I am trying to do is look at it from a different perspective or maybe from a perspective that applies to more folks.

Anyway, sorry again but I couldn't resist the temptation to spin it around another way.


----------



## jsanders

Mark S. said:


> Why don't YOU go back and read the very first post in this thread, appropriately titled: "Lease Option for Existing Customers" before you start telling me what I was thinking when I posted this.


I have read your first post. I have also read your choices. Regarding purchasing, your item was, "I was unwilling to wait so I purchased my 942." Right here, you are telling us what you are thinking. You are saying with this item that you think purchasing is a rash decision for those that can't wait. According to your own words, that was your initial thought.

I certainly appreciate that you said you spent time trying to figure out how to edit your poll. They don't allow you to edit polls without an administrator because it may invalidate the choices that were already made. Someone who made a choice may not want to change their mind because new choices are available.



Mark S. said:


> If you really must know, I posted it to try and bring awareness to other members of this forum that DISH was in fact now offering the lease to existing customers if they knew exactly who to contact and how to go about doing it.


You did a great job at that Mark!  That is the strength of these forums, we exchange ideas and experiences so that we can best take advantage of the opportunities before us.

I personally never even tried to get any kind of a lease from Dish.



Mark S. said:


> With that kind of logic, I guess I could argue that I'm saving $60 dollars a year by subscribing to AEP which is realistically probably overpriced by that much each year.


Sorry, but that is false reasoning. The point is that people who lease can subscribe to AEP, and people who don't lease can subscribe to AEP. Call Dish and tell them you want to cancell AEP, or AT60, or whatever you have. They will see that you have the lease handcuffs on and they will not allow it.



Mark S. said:


> I think that Phil also needs to be aware that many, many, of the scenarios you are tossing around regarding what will happen when MPEG4 comes out and what E*'s plans are regarding upgrade paths, time frames for swap outs, and costs to upgrade for owned boxes vs. leased boxes is purely speculation on your part and nothing more.


I thought you were going to leave your arguments to what was included in the previous thread. Anyway, some of what I said is speculation, some is not. We have been told that new HD channels will be MPEG4. The 921 and 942 will still be able to view MPEG2 HD channels, they won't be able to view new channels. That means that the 921 and 942 won't have immediate obsolesence. This is the same as they did when they switched from QPSK to 8PSK modulation. Since your 942 and your 921 will still be able to view existing HD channels, there is no need to offer a new upgrade right away. They will offer the MPEG4 stuff to new customers, no speculation there. Here is the speculation part, they won't offer you an upgrade lease until they have made as much money off of the existing lease. You have already paid $250, I speculate that they will not offer you a new lease until they have made as much as they can off the existing equipment. Why do you think they will want to immediately upgrade you when your existing receiver still works just fine, aside from a few new channels?


----------



## jsanders

Mark S. said:


> Sorry Jsanders...I just couldn't pass this one up. No hard feelings.
> 
> I guess you could also look at your original scenario another way....
> 
> Assuming you paid $1000 for your original 921, selling it for $399 now puts you in the hole @ -$601.


No offense taken Mark S., all of the scenarios are interesting to consider. Okay, we can assume that I paid $1000 for the 921, and not $550. We can also assume that I didn't actually make money off of the 921, as you can buy a referbished 921 at Dish Depot for $299, and then sell it on EBay for $400. Isn't the point of this discussion to decide whether there are scenarios that buying a 942 could be better than leasing one?



Mark S. said:


> I on the other hand also paid $1000 for my 921. The difference being I opted to pay a $250 upgrade to lease a 942 and keep my 921 as a second receiver replacing a leased 301 that I didn't own. My out of pocket is ($1,250.00) and I have 2 (two) receivers. A 942 and a 921. I still have my 921 to use as my upgrade path when MPEG4 plans are announced and I may or may not be charged to upgrade. Additionally, DISH can either upgrade my leased 942 at their cost or offer a sweet upgrade option. If not, I sever the lease on this box and my total loss on it is still only $250.


First, I thought the idea was primarily to discuss whether it was cheaper to lease or buy the 942, not thinking about how much we lost on the 921. Did anyone get a lease deal for a 921? You didn't. I didn't. Nobody did. No matter what happens, you lost on your $1000 investment. I got back $400 from mine, the jury is out on what you will get for yours. E* dropped the price to $550. EBay says it is worth $400 right now, and that price won't be going up. It is worth even less if you sell it to a retailer. Dish Depot will give you a trade-in credit of $250 for it, then they resell it for $299. I wouldn't expect E* to offer you more than what it is worth. If they want to give you an "upgrade" deal for a 921, with what appears to be an attractive price, it would probably be a lease type of deal so they can hide the true cost to the subscriber.

I think you might be caught in an even worse scenario because you own a 921 and lease a 942. Unless dish decides to allow you to upgrade both your 921, and your leased 942, you loose out. I suspect you won't end up with two MPEG-4 DVRs at the end of the deal. Try and lease a 2nd 942 right now, see what happens. People leasing right now, yourself included, are banking that they will be able to upgrade the 942 to the new MEPG-4 DVR. There are 921 owners that are also waiting to do the same thing. What I suspect will happen to you is that they will say that you can upgrade your 921, but you can't upgrade your 942 (they will lease it as long as they can). Dish doesn't allow you to lease two 942s, they don't allow you to lease two of the new 625s. Do you see that the 921 is worth nothing at this point? You lost the whole $1000. If existing 942 leasers can upgrade to the MPEG-4 DVR, then you could do that w/o the 921. But, since you won't be able to upgrade both, you may as well not even have the 921. Better idea to deactivate it now and sell it since you have a 942. At least you can get $400 for it. :nono2:

In the end, your argument isn't really about which is cheaper, leasing or buying the 942, it is more about how to minimize the losses on your $1000 investment.


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## Hollywood57

This is my 1st post on this forum. I tried to get a lease today for the 942 and was shot down. I spoke with a CSR, Supervisor and Executive Supervisor. They all told this was for new customers only. They were nice about it, but wouldn't budge. They did however mention that the 921 was available. This is interesting since it has been taken down from "E's" site for over a week now. I have read the posts about the 921 and way to many bugs with that unit. I have sent an email to the CEO and I will post the results, which I hope are positive. Just like to say this site has made for some great reading from some very knowledgable people. Let's hope I get some good news.


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## Mark S.

Interesting points made. I agree with some and have different opinions on others.

I guess the main thing I disagree with you on is where you said the following:



jsanders said:


> I think you might be caught in an even worse scenario because you own a 921 and lease a 942. Unless dish decides to allow you to upgrade both your 921, and your leased 942, you loose out. I suspect you won't end up with two MPEG-4 DVRs at the end of the deal. Try and lease a 2nd 942 right now, see what happens. People leasing right now, yourself included, are banking that they will be able to upgrade the 942 to the new MEPG-4 DVR. There are 921 owners that are also waiting to do the same thing. What I suspect will happen to you is that they will say that you can upgrade your 921, but you can't upgrade your 942 (they will lease it as long as they can).


This is exactly what I am hoping will happen. First off, my plan was never to have 2 HD PVR's. It is a nice thing now but I don't have to have 2. I guess the part I think you are missing is I leased the 942 without making any commitments to DISH regarding how long I would keep it or anything else. Remember, I can cancel the lease at any time. Then, when and if I decide I want to purchase a new MPEG4 DVR, I call DISH, cancel the lease, and go buy a new one. If they offer me the same upgrade deal on my 921 as they do to 942 users, (provided they offer a deal to any of us) then I come out way ahead. 


jsanders said:


> First, I thought the idea was primarily to discuss whether it was cheaper to lease or buy the 942, not thinking about how much we lost on the 921. Did anyone get a lease deal for a 921? You didn't. I didn't. Nobody did. No matter what happens, you lost on your $1000 investment. I got back $400 from mine, the jury is out on what you will get for yours.


Sorry that this is out of order but I had to go back and add this in after the fact. I am looking at this from a different angle. Here is my view:

If DISH were to offer the same upgrade deal to 921 users as they do to 942 users, and for arguments sake, lets just say that they decided to offer us an even swap for our 921's and 942's on the new MPEG4 DVR's or possibly even charge a one time upgrade fee of $???. With this being said, yes you made back $400 by selling your 921 but your total out of pocket for the whole 921/942 deal is still approx. $1300.00. Now, you have been able to use your 942 for a while longer than those of us that opted to wait for a lease option, but in the end you are left with your 1 $1300.00 (total expense) receiver to upgrade.

By holding on to my 921, if the upgrade scenario plays out the same for my owned 921 as your owned 942, I am still only out $1250.00 in the end and have been able to use the 942 for nearly as long as you had yours. Then I cancel the lease on their 942 and in the end I am left with the same new MPEG4 box as you for $50.00 less than your total expense.

You can't throw the $27 a month, $324 a year saved argument out there as you had that same option available to you when you had your 921 and were already receiving the same savings....I'm assuming.

What I'm really hoping for is that maybe Charlie will step up to the plate and try to make things right with all the 921 users he shafted and maybe offer a better upgrade deal to us on the new MPEG4 DVR's. If that turns out to be the case, then my 921 I decided to hold on to is not so worthless after all. As I said before though, this is pure speculation on my part and I can only hope for what Charlie will do. I think you are wrong though about the 921 being totally worthless at this point. I suspect that when the offers are finally made to upgrade or swap out 921's and 942's for new MPEG4 boxes, my 921 will be worth every bit as much as your 942, maybe even more, provided Charlie has a heart and does the right thing by the 921 users he bent over a barrell. Only time will tell. 

Thanks again for your opinions and viewpoints and especially for keeping this cordial. I appreciate it.


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## Mark S.

Jsanders....

Just for kicks....Why don't we start a new thread with a poll to see whether people would prefer to buy a 942 or lease it, all things being equal. Existing customer or not. Then maybe we could finally put this debate to rest and let the forum users decide.

These are the options I would post as choices. I will wait to put it up till we agree on the wording on all the options. Some may need to be shortened due to character limits on polls.

The question on the poll would need to start with something like: When the 942 was released, if a lease option for $250 had been made availble to all customers..I would have:

1. Bought it anyway, I prefer to own my equipment.

2. Leased it for $250.

3. Hold on to my 921 till E* anounces their upgrade plans.

4. Wait on MPEG4 regardless. $250 is too much to not own it.

Let me know if there are others you think I am leaving out and need to be added or if the wording should be changed on the 4 I wrote down above.


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## KingLoop

Here's my view... I would pay $599 for a brand new 942. My wife said she wants to wait since we haven't had our 721s long enough (in her eyes) to warrent the loss we'd see on 1 of them.(I disagree with her on that point but I learned long ago to pick my battles) Plus she doesn't want our bill to go up as much as it will. Now, I know not everyone sees things the way I do but here's what I think about money. I work hard (60-80hrs a week) to pay my bills, prepare for retirement, and buy nice stuff. I think that the amount of enjoyment I would derive from a 942 (whether it be only for a year or so) is worth $600 (or even $700). There are alot of things that are alot more expensive and alot less fun than a 942. Also, if a person paid $250 to lease one it still their's to use as long as they want. Just look at the $250 as the amount of money the 942 will depreciate in value by the time MPEG4 rolls out.


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## Mark S.

Excellent points Kingloop. :up: 

I agree with everything you said. I was also prepared to pay the $700 for the 942 had DISH not made the offer to lease for $250 on one of my final attempts.

I have to tell you, I am loving this receiver. Yes there are a couple of small quirks still to be ironed out but IMO it is far and away miles ahead of the 921. You also wouldn't even begin to believe how wonderful the NBR and Dish Pass option is. I could spend hours talking about how great it is.

Anyway, great post. Peace.


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## gqmagtutgic

Mark S. said:


> Jsanders....
> 
> Just for kicks....Why don't we start a new thread with a poll to see whether people would prefer to buy a 942 or lease it, all things being equal. Existing customer or not. Then maybe we could finally put this debate to rest and let the forum users decide.
> 
> These are the options I would post as choices. I will wait to put it up till we agree on the wording on all the options. Some may need to be shortened due to character limits on polls.
> 
> The question on the poll would need to start with something like: When the 942 was released, if a lease option for $250 had been made availble to all customers..I would have:
> 
> 1. Bought it anyway, I prefer to own my equipment.
> 
> 2. Leased it for $250.
> 
> 3. Hold on to my 921 till E* anounces their upgrade plans.
> 
> 4. Wait on MPEG4 regardless. $250 is too much to not own it.
> 
> Let me know if there are others you think I am leaving out and need to be added or if the wording should be changed on the 4 I wrote down above.


In my opinion it makes no sense whatsoever to buy these recievers when a lease is an option. When I first got dish 4 years ago I bought a 501 & 301 with install for $99. I've since bought a 508, 721, and 921. I've leased 2 811's from dish. Yesterday I was finally able to lease the 942, when I get it I'm taking the 921 bach to Costco. There is absolutely no advantage to "owning" over leasing. You can only use these recievers with dish, its not like you can take them somewhere else and use them, so for those that say I like to own, if the purchase price is 2-3 times the lease price, I don't see the logic. Now as far as how long I'll keep my 501,508,&721 with no dvr fee I don't know, 2 aren't connected.


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## Stewart Vernon

I think I stated once before that I upgraded one of my 301s to a 501 way back when there was a $50 upgrade promotion or something on leased receivers. That was an ok upgrade fee to me.

My only issue with the 942 lease (aside from it being difficult to get for existing subscribers)... is I can't justify throwing $250 into a black hole for the upgrade. IF it was $99 or less for an upgrade fee, I would probably do it without thinking.

I just can't justify putting $250 into it. I also can't afford $700 for a brand new one to own right now... but if the price were around $500, then it would be more tempting to own.

The thing about the $250 upgrade is... the receiver isn't mine... at some point in the future I'd have to give it back in order to upgrade, and possibly pay again too... vs IF I own it, then I can keep it OR sell it to get some money back OR give it to someone else who has a Dish account who could make better use of it than I could by then.

I just can't justify in my pocketbook paying $700 to own it right now... or paying $250 and not owning it.


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## KingLoop

HDMe said:


> *The thing about the $250 upgrade is... the receiver isn't mine*... at some point in the future I'd have to give it back in order to upgrade, and possibly pay again too... vs IF *I own it, then I can keep it OR sell it * to get some money back OR give it to someone else who has a Dish account who could make better use of it than I could by then.


That train of thought is very reasonable, I will buy one myself when the warden approves it. But don't you think that the reselling value of the 942 will depreciated by *more* than $250? I mean sure, you pay $700 at the door and when you are done using it you sell it on EBay for say $450. (Probably less though) So, what happens in that scenario is you lose $250 out of your pocket in the long run ($700 in the short run) and then you don't have the 942 anymore. If you lease the 942 for $250 you lose the exact same amount of money in the long run and don't have to invest the additional $450 under the premise that you'll get some of that back some day. Your bill will be exactly the same (if you normally subscribe at least to the AT60) whether you own or lease. So unless you have limited programming there is no monthly financial incentive to own either. Either way you lose something upfront and either way you lose the 942 when you are done using it. For me I'll buy because Dish will only let you lease 1 high end DVR per account. So, when they upgrade to MPEG4 I will use the 942 as my secondary and still have the option to lease a new HDDVR. Or if they have an upgrade deal (which is possible) then I can upgrade the 942 to the MPEG4 IRD and still lease a new HDDVR. Either way I'll be happy.


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## 120inna55

Mark S. said:


> If this poll helped even one existing customer obtain the lease deal from DISH, then it accomplished what it was designed for.


And you _did_ help. Thanks! I emailed the CEO with a buttkissin' (albeit heartfelt) note this morning around 0830. I received a call from Amanda at "executive offices" ~1430. Very nice lady, and I'm not just saying that cause they're letting me (existing customer of 8 yrs) lease a 942. She was really more down-to-Earth and un-scripted than anyone I've ever spoken with at E* or equivalent. I'm very satisfied. Again thanks for the information. You just saved me $450.


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## Stewart Vernon

KingLoop said:


> That train of thought is very reasonable, I will buy one myself when the warden approves it. But don't you think that the reselling value of the 942 will depreciated by *more* than $250? I mean sure, you pay $700 at the door and when you are done using it you sell it on EBay for say $450. (Probably less though) So, what happens in that scenario is you lose $250 out of your pocket in the long run ($700 in the short run) and then you don't have the 942 anymore. If you lease the 942 for $250 you lose the exact same amount of money in the long run and don't have to invest the additional $450 under the premise that you'll get some of that back some day. Your bill will be exactly the same (if you normally subscribe at least to the AT60) whether you own or lease. So unless you have limited programming there is no monthly financial incentive to own either. Either way you lose something upfront and either way you lose the 942 when you are done using it.


That's why I'm sort of in limbo... because I don't want to pay $700 for it now either... I would pay closer to $500 now for one to own if I could, but not $700... If I were comparing based on $700, then leasing makes more sense as a better deal in the long run... but since it isn't worth $700 to own right now, I'm on the fence.

$500 to own would come out better in the long run, I think, if I wanted to re-sell in the future if there wasn't a good swap-upgrade option by then. It is just hard for me to swallow $250 for the "right to lease" scenario.


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## DWS44

HDMe said:


> if I wanted to re-sell in the future if there wasn't a good swap-upgrade option by then.


In a post-MPEG4 world, if there was not a good swap/upgrade option, who would _want_ to buy it from you? In that scenario, I would think the resale value would seriously go down the toilet, wouldnt it?


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## Mark S.

I think what alot of people who are unwilling to lease it @ $250 are missing is that in 1-2 years when the new MPEG4 boxes are released, the 942 will most likely have depreciated by at least $250.00. Probably even more.....


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## Stewart Vernon

Mark S. said:


> I think what alot of people who are unwilling to lease it @ $250 are missing is that in 1-2 years when the new MPEG4 boxes are released, the 942 will most likely have depreciated by at least $250.00. Probably even more.....


I do understand about depreciation and all.... but think of it this way... $250 is about 1/3 of the purchase price of the unit, probably goes a long way towards covering the cost of the components in it!

Would you be willing to pay $5000 for the right to lease a car? Or $35,000 for the right to lease a home?

That's where I have trouble... At $250, I'm essentially buying the cost of the unit just not at a profitable margin for Dish... so I don't own the unit but I did pay for it mostly.

Most of their receivers you lease for free (the $5 month fee doesn't count since it is the same for lease vs owned receivers after the first one anyway)... and I don't mind the $50 or even $100 on a 942 upgrade fees... but $250 is too rich for my blood, since probably in a few more months it won't take much more than that to buy the unit outright.


----------



## Rob Glasser

120inna55 said:


> And you _did_ help. Thanks! I emailed the CEO with a buttkissin' (albeit heartfelt) note this morning around 0830. I received a call from Amanda at "executive offices" ~1430. Very nice lady, and I'm not just saying that cause they're letting me (existing customer of 8 yrs) lease a 942. She was really more down-to-Earth and un-scripted than anyone I've ever spoken with at E* or equivalent. I'm very satisfied. Again thanks for the information. You just saved me $450.


When I contacted the CEO office about a month ago I too worked with Amanda and she was great. Very helpful and nice. If only all customer service was that great.


----------



## Hollywood57

I received a call from Amanda at the CEO's office and she offered me the lease for the $250 non refundable upfront cost. She was a pleasure to deal with, very nice and couldn't do enough for me. Told me to call her directly to activate unit after install. I would just like to say that Amanda has it together, I wish all my customer service calls went as smoothly as this one did. Should be up and recording on the 16th, can't wait.


----------



## gregleg

Amanda also called me -- very nice and helpful. My 942 is sitting here next to me, waiting for an install (I'm letting them come out and do it since I still have an oldlegacy quad and want to see if I can get switched to DP equipment while we're at it)


----------



## kstevens

I dealt with Amanda also, if only she lived in South Carolina...............



Ken


----------



## Mike D-CO5

Be carefull, the voice you hear might not match the image you have of her. I know of a talk show a while back where they had a phone sex operator on that made more money than all the rest. The top phone sex operator was................ A MAN! That is right"she" was a he and he had a sexy femine voice that men drooled over and had many return customers.:sure: 

Amanda might be a 35 year old man with a d*ck for all you know. I'm sure Charlie finds it "very compelling" to hire she-males. :lol: 

Kathleen Turner has the most sexy voice but she sure doesn't "look " like it anymore. Looks can be deceiving and I guess so can voices.


----------



## Aftershock

Any chance someone has Amanda's Phone #? I had a message from a DISH Exec and have tried several times to return his call with no response even after leaving him a better Phone #.


----------



## gijohn

I'm still on the fence as to which way to go. Had a Dish Exec offer me the lease, told them I wanted to think about it til the morning - got their direct line. Have tried 3 times to get in touch with the "exec". No luck. Maybe this Amanda person is a little more professional. Still undecided. Lease Buy, Lease Buy. Jeez life is tough.


----------



## datwell

gijohn said:


> I'm still on the fence as to which way to go. Had a Dish Exec offer me the lease, told them I wanted to think about it til the morning - got their direct line. Have tried 3 times to get in touch with the "exec". No luck. Maybe this Amanda person is a little more professional. Still undecided. Lease Buy, Lease Buy. Jeez life is tough.


Well, it was a pretty easy decision for me - $250 vs. $700 for a really nice unit that will be obsolete in a year or so. Remember, Charlie has said E* will be a leader in HD - this requires the MPEG-4 conversion and Charlie has also said the HD subs will be first in line for the new MPEG-4 units.

IMHO, the real buy/lease question will come when the MPEG-4 units become available - the buy option may well make sense then.

da Doug


----------



## gijohn

datwell said:


> Charlie has also said the HD subs will be first in line for the new MPEG-4 units.


I plead ignorant. Please define "the HD subs"


----------



## 120inna55

gijohn said:


> I plead ignorant. Please define "the HD subs"


*HD* package *sub*scriber*s*.


----------



## gijohn

120inna55 said:


> *HD* package *sub*scriber*s*.


Thanks! I appreciate it. First I'd heard that Charlie said that. I kind of assumed that new customers would get first dibs on the MPEG4 units when they become available.


----------



## jtp1947

gijohn said:


> I'm still on the fence as to which way to go. Had a Dish Exec offer me the lease, told them I wanted to think about it til the morning - got their direct line. Have tried 3 times to get in touch with the "exec". No luck. Maybe this Amanda person is a little more professional. Still undecided. Lease Buy, Lease Buy. Jeez life is tough.


Make sure you don't accept a job to work on a suicide helpline! :lol:


----------



## gijohn

jtp1947 said:


> Make sure you don't accept a job to work on a suicide helpline! :lol:


  
"Hold on .. I have another call"


----------



## StevenZ

So as an existing customer, I begged and begged, but no luck -- I couldn't get the exec offices to offer me the lease. I had to find a local dealer and pony up full retail.

Imagine my surprise when my Dish bill showed up with a $5 lease fee.

It was impossible to offer the lease, but easy for Dish to bill me for it anyway!

It only took a few minutes to clear it from my account, and the 942's amazing, but it's been frustrating.


----------



## jcord51

:grin: Well Guys, it's been a few days with the 942 and I really have to say that it is What the 921 should have been from the beginning! One of the benefits of having both is that now the problems with the 921 aren't as important since it was moved to lesser used area of my home and the 942 is the main stay of my entertainment room. Another plus is that the leased unit gets the free install, meaning that I got the DishPro plus LNBS and the DPP44, this allowed me to retire my long trusted SW64 with it's power inserter. The new equipment improved my signal's strength substantially though the 942 and the 921  .


----------



## Phil Smith

robglasser said:


> Nope, there is an additional $5 fee if you do not connect to a phone line on top of the $5 lease fee. So, basically if you get the lease deal, and do not hook it up to a phone line you are looking at:
> 
> $250.00 one time lease fee
> $5.00 monthly lease fee
> $5.00 monthly DVR fee
> $5.00 monthly no phone line fee


I haven't received my first regular monthly bill, so I have no idea what exactly I'm being billed for. I just called E* and ask. I was told the only monthly fee regarding my leased 942 is the $5 DVR fee. At least for me, there is no $5 monthly lease fee, which is what I thought in the first place.

Confused!!!


----------



## Mark S.

Phil Smith said:


> I haven't received my first regular monthly bill, so I have no idea what exactly I'm being billed for. I just called E* and ask. I was told the only monthly fee regarding my leased 942 is the $5 DVR fee. At least for me, there is no $5 monthly lease fee, which is what I thought in the first place.
> 
> Confused!!!


This is directly from the DISH website.

_Digital Home Advantage Terms and Conditions

Monthly Fees and Payments. You agree to make a monthly payment to DISH Network by the payment due date for the programming you select and for the following fees as applicable depending on the equipment you select: Equipment Rental Fee: A $5.00 equipment rental fee for the first receiver activated is included in the promotional base programming package price. An additional equipment rental fee of $5.00 per month will be charged to your account for each receiver activated beyond the first; DISH Network DVR Service Fee: A $4.98 per month DISH Network DVR service fee will be charged to your account for each model 510, 522, 625, or 942 receiver activated. This fee will be waived if you subscribe to America 's "Everything" Pak or the Latino "Everything" Pak; Additional Outlet Programming Access Fee: A $4.99 per month additional outlet programming access fee will be charged to your account for each dual tuner receiver (models 322, 522, and 942) activated. This fee will be waived on a monthly basis for each such receiver that DISH Network confirms has been continuously connected to your same land-based phone line. DISH Network's confirmation process shall be the sole method utilized to determine if your additional outlet programming access fee(s) will be waived. The $250 lease upgrade fee for the model 942 receiver and the $19.99 lease upgrade fee for the model 625 receiver are not deposits and are non-refundable. The $49.99 activation fee (if applicable) is non-refundable but will be credited on your first account billing statement. Other fees may apply as set forth in the Residential Customer Agreement._

Not sure if this applies to all accounts or if there is a difference between the DHA and some other type of account with DISH. Anyway, I think this is what most people fall under and this is directly from E*'s website.


----------



## Phil Smith

I wouldn't be surprised if the person on the phone was wrong. I should get my first regular monthly bill in a week or two. I'll let you know if they charge me or not.


----------



## gijohn

Anyone hear of an "offer" on 942's for existing customers? Someone brought it up in the Chat Room tonight. Apparently the lease deal for existing subs is no more? Dunno.


----------



## RLMesq

gijohn said:


> Anyone hear of an "offer" on 942's for existing customers? Someone brought it up in the Chat Room tonight. Apparently the lease deal for existing subs is no more? Dunno.


Please read the preceding posts. Several of us have leased a 942 within the last few weeks, and the info above details how to do it.

It takes a call to the executive offices; the general first-line customer service morons will tell you to pound sand, and there is nothing about a lease for existing subs on the Dish website.


----------



## the_bear

I assume the actual number of existing subs that got leases on 942s is higher, because Dish CSRs have been asking customers not to participate in Mark’s poll.


----------



## gijohn

RLMesq said:


> Please read the preceding posts. Several of us have leased a 942 within the last few weeks, and the info above details how to do it.
> 
> It takes a call to the executive offices; the general first-line customer service morons will tell you to pound sand, and there is nothing about a lease for existing subs on the Dish website.


I haven't posted here much - but HAVE read the preceding posts. You might even note my message #87. I'm well aware of what it takes for existing subs (gettin the lingo around here) to get a lease, who to talk to, etc etc etc.

What MY question/comment is ... someone during the chat room discussion last nite made mention that a CSR told him that a "public" offer/lease is in the works for existing subs. No more "don't tell anyone, cause we're making a special exception for you". Whether it's something that will be put up on the website, an incentive, etc etc. Don't know. Could it be a better/different deal than what was offered? (sssshhhhh! Don't tell anyone) Don't know.


----------



## gijohn

Just got off the phone with "Ross" from E*. FIRST thing he tried to do was get me into a 921 instead of the 942. I was insistent and he had a difficult time understanding why I wanted the 942. Anyway ... bottom line - according to him - there are no 942's or 921's available for lease or sale at this time.


----------



## MrC

On a similar note, my mother was just denied the 942 as well by "Christine".


----------



## gijohn

Here's something interesting. I asked (a CEO Exec) about installation on a lease 942 and if there were any "hidden" installation charges as far as needing any equipment for the install. I was told - no, that's what the $250 is for.
My question is" for those of you who did the install yourself how much of the $250 did you pay? <grin>
I know .. there's probably something with the lease agreement that the unit must be installed by a certified technician. Sure. Just thot I'd ask.


----------



## gdub

gijohn said:


> someone during the chat room discussion last nite made mention that a CSR told him that a "public" offer/lease is in the works for existing subs. QUOTE]
> 
> I was the one that spoke to "Judd" yeteraday at the executive office, after he responded to my e-mail lease request. He said that within the next 3 or 4 weeks E* would offer the 942 to existing subs in some sort of promotion.
> There were no specifics mentioned, he simply said no more exceptions would be forthcoming. Whether this is true remains to be seen. I have been a E*
> HD sub for 6 yrs. now and they have never spent a dime on me as I purchased all of my equipment at full retail from Dish Depot. I don't understand why customers like myself, who never recieved any of the free offers E* has offered over the years are continually refused any price break
> on the new HD equipment.


----------



## gijohn

I was also told there is a $9.98 Video On Demand (DVR?) fee. Is this right or should it be $5??


----------



## Bichon

gijohn said:


> I was also told there is a $9.98 Video On Demand (DVR?) fee. Is this right or should it be $5??


The DVR fee is $4.98. It's waived if you have America's Everything Pack.

$9.98 is a total of the $5 lease fee (or extra receiver fee, if it isn't your first) and the $4.98 DVR fee.


----------



## gijohn

Not what I was told. I was told there is a $5 lease fee PLUS a $9.98 Video on Demand fee.


----------



## najaboy

gdub said:


> gijohn said:
> 
> 
> 
> someone during the chat room discussion last nite made mention that a CSR told him that a "public" offer/lease is in the works for existing subs. QUOTE]
> 
> I was the one that spoke to "Judd" yeteraday at the executive office, after he responded to my e-mail lease request. He said that within the next 3 or 4 weeks E* would offer the 942 to existing subs in some sort of promotion.
> There were no specifics mentioned, he simply said no more exceptions would be forthcoming. Whether this is true remains to be seen. I have been a E*
> HD sub for 6 yrs. now and they have never spent a dime on me as I purchased all of my equipment at full retail from Dish Depot. I don't understand why customers like myself, who never recieved any of the free offers E* has offered over the years are continually refused any price break
> on the new HD equipment.
> 
> 
> 
> Exceptions are still being made. I called the executive office yesterday evening and got a 942.
Click to expand...


----------



## Mark S.

gijohn said:


> Not what I was told. I was told there is a $5 lease fee PLUS a $9.98 Video on Demand fee.


See post # 97 for a clarification on the fees direct from the DISH website.

On a side note...this thread has now moved into 4th place for the most views and responses of any thread in this forum. Only threads still ahead of it are Mark's DVR 942 Review Discussion, Mark's 942 Bug Tracking, and Mark's In Home 942 Review Pt.1. Not necessarily in that order. I'll try not to break my arm... :lol: Oh, and thanks to all the people behind the scenes for makin it happen...  LOL


----------



## gijohn

Thanks for the direction Mark. I just got email stating I will be paying:
$5 lease fee
$4.98 video-on-demand fee <DVR?> (I didn't think this feature was even available yet)
$9.99 HD package

Thanks again - looking forward to the 942.


----------



## elbyj

Took a lot of advice and sent an email to [email protected] last night. Got a returned call from a high level supervisor within 30 minutes. Had a nice long talk with her -- to get to the meat of this discussion, she indicated leases of 942s to exisiting customers would commence in July 05 and to watch for the information on their web site. I will wait for this release to get mine. The 811 is not going to meet our requirements since we are so spoiled by having a DVR. Just thought I would let you all know.


----------



## zephyr

I just posted this on another thread:

'Just got off the phone with a polite representative from the 'executive office.' They have been instructed to no longer offer the 942 lease deal to existing customers. The stated reason is that a new offer for existing customers will be coming out 'mid-July.' Who knows?'

Who indeed.


----------



## prymtym99

zephyr said:


> 'Just got off the phone with a polite representative from the 'executive office.' They have been instructed to no longer offer the 942 lease deal to existing customers. The stated reason is that a new offer for existing customers will be coming out 'mid-July.' Who knows?'


well duh... if they are going to offer it to the rest in a few weeks, then why cut it off? sounds fishy. maybe they are planning on upping the lease fee and want to squeeze more $$$...?


----------



## UT_Texan

I just talked to someone there today who said that 7/14 a new promotion was coming out for existing customers regarding the 942. He said he didn't have any info on it (yeah right) and that he didn't know if it would be a lease or purchase promotion.


----------



## kermit24

I talked to Judge (or Judd, not sure) from the exec. offices yesterday, and he told me to wait until mid July as well for a 942 offer to existing customers. He had no details to provide though.

Does anyone have any idea as to what the offer will be? (purchase, lease, cost, etc.)

On a side note, does anyone think we will see the MPEG4 Boxes before Christmas?


----------



## zephyr

I also spoke with Jedd (not sure one or two d's), who gave the same 14th date, which led to my post above. Just above that is a post from elbyj that indicates July 5. I liked that date better.

An MPEG4 question: one of the stated reasons for MPEG4 is HD locals by satellite. Why is this desirable to us as consumers, if one of the philosophical bases of satellite service is free OTA programming? And yes, I recognize many live in fringe or poor reception areas, and I know Dish wants to make a buck, but it seems the OTA tuner quality in the 942 is lower than previous models, so is there a trend to phase out OTA for an MPEG4 future?


----------



## Bichon

zephyr said:


> I know Dish wants to make a buck, but it seems the OTA tuner quality in the 942 is lower than previous models, so is there a trend to phase out OTA for an MPEG4 future?


Your insinuation that the tuner in the 942 was intentionally designed to get poor reception in order to sell HD satellite locals on some future receiver is preposterous.


----------



## zephyr

Wasn't meant as a negative insinuation, just a thought on a sunny Saturday morning. I like Dish and I have always valued the free OTA as a rebellion against the cable monster, as well as being the backbone of tv in general. I have read numerous posts on OTA reception that leave the clear impression that the 942 OTA tuner is not as good as the 921 or other products (what is not clear is whether that is due to hardware or software). The conclusion that draws to me is that OTA reception is not the highest priority part of the product design. As to why that is, who knows, though it has something to do with money no doubt (either selling price or that Dish is a satellite company, not an OTA company, or...). Oops, guess that ... does leave room for an insinuation of product and service strategy.


----------



## MarkoC

If the PQ on the eventual HD locals from Dish is anything like the PQ on the SD locals they offer now, I will be keeping my antenna on the roof for a long time.


----------



## zephyr

How true.  

The locals over satellite show the same strong contour stepping (not the right technical term, but images look like contour maps) that caused me to leave digital cable years ago. I'm assuming the reason is the same: excessive compression to get more programming into limited bandwidth. Satellite SD images seem to be showing this more and more over time, not only on locals.

Oh, and MPEG4 is a compression protocol.... 

Digital SD locals OTA have very high image quality, even when not HD, when received through a good OTA tuner.


----------



## Bichon

The correct term for that paint-by-numbers artifact is "banding".

OTA broadcasters are lowering the bar too. I see a noticable decline in PQ when comparing broadcasters that use the entire 19.2Mbps bandwidth for the HDTV channel, vs ones that cut the bandwidth down to 12-13Mbps so they can multicast a couple of SD streams alongside.


----------



## zephyr

Thanks! I like your paint-by-number descriptor better than banding, but I'll use the proper term.

Interesting comment regarding local broadcasts. Inevitable trend I guess. Hmmm...probably getting off thread topic.

Yes, I wanted the lease, but the nice man said wait. Who knows, maybe it will be a better deal than the new customer offer :sure:


----------



## robo45h

I was turned down recently and told to watch for some sort of announcement in July. Annoying.


----------



## musicmaker2020

robo45h said:


> I was turned down recently and told to watch for some sort of announcement in July. Annoying.


I would be very excited.... It is july you know  Anyway this new promotion might be a little better than what we were getting.  We will see.


----------



## FLApilot

Has anyone heard any news on new 942 offer to existing customers? I am ready to get this thing now. I have a new Sammy showing up any day and don't want to wait long!

Scott


----------



## kermit24

Yeah, Isn't it supposed to be launched today or tomorrow?


----------



## Rob Glasser

Wasn't the 14th supposed to be the day for the new offer? Anyone call in and get it yet? Curious to see if it's better/same/worse than the old offer.


----------



## dhuntsman

I just called customer service and was told the new deal for existing customers is $798 (699 for the receiver and 99 for the install). Wow what a deal. I am not happy!


----------



## Rob Glasser

dhuntsman said:


> I just called customer service and was told the new deal for existing customers is $798 (699 for the receiver and 99 for the install). Wow what a deal. I am not happy!


That can't be it, that has always been an option for existing customers since the day the reciever was released. If that is all they are going to offer that sucks.


----------



## UT_Texan

I just confirmed with Judd, 699 to 99 for install for total of 798. Purchase only. I told him I would be embarrassed if I was him. That is no deal at all. I gave him my two cents worth and he didn't seem to care. This is very disappointing coming from the exec. office. To top it all off I get my second automated call from dish informing me of their ability to accept debit cards and it asked if I wanted to participate. I mean come on I am already signed up for credit card autopay. That is one deal I definitely passed on.


----------



## gdarwin

I guess I saved $99.00 by purchasing and installing myself.  

Still worth it!

G.


----------



## Bichon

From the "other" forum, dishstore.net has the 942 for $625.99 with free shipping, using the coupon code "satguys" at checkout.


----------



## rockitman

Has anyone who has previously been in contact with the Executive Office concerning the deal for current subs, heard back from them yet???? I know that UT_Texan heard from Judd, but has anyone else heard anything from the any of the other reps. from the Executive Office?????? I just find it really hard to believe that this is the deal that they are offering, since it's been the same deal the whole time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## jcord51

If what has been said is true, I'm glad that I got the lease for $250 with the new switch and Lnbs installation! This really is not a way to stay in business! What's going to happen when MP4 comes around and we have to upgrade our receivers? I've read that "D" was planning to offer their HD receivers for little or no cost (that was a while ago I have no idea what they are planning now). I was really hoping that Dish would do something about the problems with the 921 and at least give a fair discount on the purchase of the 942. Sorry for ranting on...


----------



## cleblanc

rockitman said:


> Has anyone who has previously been in contact with the Executive Office concerning the deal for current subs, heard back from them yet???? I know that UT_Texan heard from Judd, but has anyone else heard anything from the any of the other reps. from the Executive Office?????? I just find it really hard to believe that this is the deal that they are offering, since it's been the same deal the whole time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I heard back today and there is NO deal. They are allowing us to buy a 942 direct now for full price plus 99 for installation.
They are calling this a promotion. I think I'll pass. Two months ago I was given an opportunity to lease a 942 for $250 that I also passed on. I consider this extortion to try and get us to buy a 942 rather than fix the problems of the 921.


----------



## zephyr

How unfortunate.
I did the math of purchase/resell versus leasing with $250 down and it definitely favors leasing over the next two to three years. MPEG4 is said to be coming out during that time. It feels like Dish is turning its back on existing customers.

I just purchased a Sony DHG-HDD250 tuner/PVR. Amazing machine! I will stick to OTA HD and keep my old 508 for satellite (for now). Saves lots of money each month.


----------



## prusakolep

I was speaking today with a rep in the Executive Office who informed me that there is no lease option for 942 for existing customers and there won't be one. He was very happy to cancel the service for me as soon as I mentioned in - in fact he cancelled it immediately, without letting me choose the cancellation date, and refused to let the service continue for a few more days. It's as if he really wanted to get rid of me as a customer, and to spite me in the process. FWIW, I was subscribing to the Top 60 package with locals, I guess I was not a valuable customer to keep.

So I'll take a break from TV for a while, then I guess cable has a good HDTV DVR deal for former satellite customers with no commitment and no equipment to buy. I can get a 12 month offer for an equivalent package for just over $50, though the DVR will only work on one TV.


----------



## musicmaker2020

prusakolep said:


> I was speaking today with a rep in the Executive Office who informed me that there is no lease option for 942 for existing customers and there won't be one. He was very happy to cancel the service for me as soon as I mentioned in - in fact he cancelled it immediately, without letting me choose the cancellation date, and refused to let the service continue for a few more days. It's as if he really wanted to get rid of me as a customer, and to spite me in the process. FWIW, I was subscribing to the Top 60 package with locals, I guess I was not a valuable customer to keep.
> 
> So I'll take a break from TV for a while, then I guess cable has a good HDTV DVR deal for former satellite customers with no commitment and no equipment to buy. I can get a 12 month offer for an equivalent package for just over $50, though the DVR will only work on one TV.


I have heard rumors from another board that the promotion is absolutely 100 percent in the works. BUT.... no one has info yet at the Exec office but it IS in fact coming. Guess we all have to be patient.


----------



## kermit24

I guess no one in the Dish Exec offices understands the "under promise and over deliver" motto. I just am finding it unbelievable that they told us to wait until July 14th for an existing customer promotion on the 942, only to find out that there is no deal after all. 

They tell us to wait for a deal that didn't happen. That is pretty poor.


----------



## Jordan420

I had been in contact w/ the exec office about the 942 lease option for existing customers, when I called today to go ahead the person I was in contact with is no longer with the exec. office.

The new person I was refereed to said that the lease offer is no longer available. The "new" promo is $699 for existing customers.

I replied "that has been the promo all along & I can get a better price than that"

He replied that ebay does not count & I said that dish store has them for $ 625 & they are a dish authorized dealer.

His attitude was that he could care less about existing customers & they are only focusing on new subs at this time.

I'M PISSED!

Jordan


----------



## prymtym99

Jordan420 said:


> I had been in contact w/ the exec office about the 942 lease option for existing customers, when I called today to go ahead the person I was in contact with is no longer with the exec. office.
> 
> The new person I was refereed to said that the lease offer is no longer available. The "new" promo is $699 for existing customers.
> 
> I replied "that has been the promo all along & I can get a better price than that"
> 
> He replied that ebay does not count & I said that dish store has them for $ 625 & they are a dish authorized dealer.
> 
> His attitude was that he could care less about existing customers & they are only focusing on new subs at this time.
> 
> I'M PISSED!
> 
> Jordan


absolute BS. good job dish. you've just lost another loyal customer for 6 years... i'll take my $85.93 a month payment and move on to direct tv.


----------



## rockitman

musicmaker2020,
Which board are you referring to? PM the site if you will please, but if you are referring to the sat***.us site, then they are saying the same thing that is being said on this site.



musicmaker2020 said:


> I have heard rumors from another board that the promotion is absolutely 100 percent in the works. BUT.... no one has info yet at the Exec office but it IS in fact coming. Guess we all have to be patient.


----------



## UT_Texan

think I will just hold out for the 962 unless they offer the lease deal to us within the next 2 months. It is their loss in extra money because I was willing to shell out the 250, maybe even 400 for a purchase and then get the 962 x 2 when it comes out.


----------



## prymtym99

and just as an fyi -

i decided to contact dish just to throw my 3.5 cents into the mix and couldn't get them to budge either despite telling them that i am cancelling my service and going to direct tv. but one thing they did tell me is that the deal for existing customers on the 942 is a REFURBISHED MODEL ONLY. now that's reeeeeeeeeeeal nice of them, isn't it?!??!

when told that i could buy a brand new model from many dish retailers on the internet for the low $600s, they did not believe me and said they were scams.

okie dokie then! sounds like someone's been on the sauce a little too much over there... 

:nono2:


----------



## Jordan420

Here is a copy of an email I received from the exec. office on sat July 16th, I am not including who it was from

"Dear Jordan,



Thank you for your email. 



Currently at this time we are only selling the 942 for $798 including install. I am not sure if or when we will have an existing lease promotion available.



If you would like to participate in the option we have currently please feel free to call and set that up. 



Thank you,
"

And here is the reply I sent them

"How kind of Dish to offer the 942 for a higher price than is available from authorized retailers. 

It is also so kind of you to call this a promotion when the $699 price has been available to everyone since the 942 was released.

And it is also so kind of you to let some existing customers lease and others not to.

So in response to your offer, NO I do not wish to pay Dish more for a 942 than I can get it elsewhere and I do not wish to pay dish $100 for an installer to disconnect the 2 feeds from my 721 and connect them to a 942.

When you do finally have actual promotion, please let me know.

Jordan"


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## prymtym99

very nice jordan...


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## ddinsm

Having watched this thread for the past few weeks and one of the people who was working with Judd and waiting for the "deal" on July 14th it was disappointing to say the least. When he told me of the deal last Friday my heart sank, if I had any indication it was going to be that bad I would have bought one from SatGuys last week and saved a hundred dollars. Instead my plasma was delivered on Friday and I went to a local retailer and paid 780 bucks (tax and a little markup) for the 942. 

Installed it myself with the help of phone support, that part I enjoyed it was similiar to what I went thru back in July of 96 when I got my first dish and sat on the roof with the guy on the phone in Colorado trying to get a signal so I could watch my favorite chicago station, WGN, to see the Cubs play.

Am I disappointed? Am I going to write Charlie a letter? Yep to both of those. My bigger issue is that I've referred over 100 people to dish over the 10 years and now I'm done. I'll enjoy my setup and pay my monthly bill, cancelling a few services I've kept over the years to make myself feel better and save some cash.

Best part of this whole experience was finding this forum, the info and replies on here is sensational, that may have made it worth it. I remember searching for "Dish 942 existing" and google directing me here.

Dave


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## prusakolep

Since my somewhat abrupt cancellation of Dish Network last Friday, I must say that I don't really miss any of that TV. My kids haven't even noticed it was disconnected... I guess I should learn from them and give up on paid TV? It certainly tells me that it ain't worth buying the 942 receiver for me, in fact, I'd have a hard time justifying paying for the montly charges. The plasma TV works great for watching movies, though, so I'll just stick with Netflix or Blockbuster and forget the whole Satellite/Cable thing.


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## treiher

OK, been watching this and other threads like it for sometime, and thought I would finally add my 2 cents. I have always reconciled the difference between Dish charging for new receivers and Cable giving them away to the "you get what you pay for" concept. For the most part, the cable receivers I have seen at other peoples homes are vastly inferior to what I have with Dish. They were slow to come to market with DVR's, then with dual tuner DVR's, HDTV DVR's, and so on. And then there is little things like digital sound on only a few channels with cable (I'm not talking about just Dolby 5.1, but if you have your audio system connected with a digital cable, it only works for a handfull of the cable channels), and things like DVR not working for local channels. It sounds like cable may be catching up on these features, but has certainly not reached parity yet. So if you read this, you can tell I care about all this stuff, but I am willing to bet that 90% plus of the cable subscribers don't. They just want TV and will get what they can. So why would cable spend time and money to develop leading edge receivers, knowing they would have to give them away, and most of their subscribers don't care anyway? The people who subscribe to Dish and Direct TV tend to focus more on these issues and are more willing to pay for the technology. You have quite a few that move because of price promotions, but I think by in large, the satellite subscribers want more than what they can get from cable when it comes to technology. If they start giving away their receivers like cable, then ultimately that will stall development as they try to appeal only to the masses. This actually makes sense to me!

Now, having said all that, it also makes sense that they offer incentives to new customers to get them to switch. Clearly, Dish is doing that. But when they cross that line, they should consider offering the same to subscribers who have been loyal customers for 2 years or more. After that amount of time, they recover their upfront cost, and don't have to completely give equipment away, but could certainly discount and lease like the $250 942 deal. Still get some money, and keep people happy, and keep them as customers for another 2 years (or whatever the commitment would be). Look at what the cell phone providers do. After you have been a customer for awhile, you can upgrade your phone - for free if its an older one, or pay some discounted price which is higher depending on how new the phone is. I don't understand why Dish can't adopt the same model. The idea that some got the $250 lease deal, and I won't (if true) is really irritating to me. I plan to upgrade to an HDTV soon, and if I have to fork out $700 plus just because I didn't call at the right time, I'll play their new customer game and switch to Direct TV. Like I outlined above, I don't mind and understand why they can't just give these away as they develop them to anyone who wants an upgrade whenever someone wants one. But for customers who've been with them a long time and would stay with them a long time, they could cut us a break. For those who haven't been there long enough to qualify, at least you would have a target date for when you would and Dish would be offering an added incentive to stay, with the idea that "I can get a new receiver if I stay for 10 more months". I honestly don't get that they don't get this.

Anyway, long rant . . . sorry! I'll sit back now watch this get picked apart!


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## MrC

Dish has placed a priority on attracting new customers - this is good policy and it has been working for years. Dish will continue to focus in this direction.

I think the "loyal customer" argument here is pretty odd. All of us "loyal customers" are not loyal in the least - in fact, given a better overall value elsewhere, we'd all jump ship. "Long-time customers" perhaps, but loyal, unlikely. And to threaten to leave after using the term "loyality" is misguided at best.

We all know that this is Dish is a business - we don't get breaks from most businesses, and we should not expect them with a highly competitive, bottom-line watching company. What you should expect is a service-value proposition that is overall attractive to you. Perks are not obligitory, and the "he got it, so why don't I" argument is endless and non-productive.

If we want a receiver, and we feel your budget can afford a top-notch appliance, we'll pay for it. If we can't afford it, or have other priorities, we'll not have one. Some folks were fortunate enough to work the system, and Dish allowed a certain number to pass. Nothing wrong with that.

There is another way to look at this - if we can't afford to pay for the goods, we could find a way to earn more money, so that we could, rather than extorting a company to give us the freebies or unwarranted discounts. Hmmm...


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## zephyr

The only angle I've wondered about is whether the 'no lease to existing' policy is a nod to Dish Retailers. Sales would suffer if many customers moved to company sponsored leases.

The dollar equation so clearly favored leasing, that I could not make the jump to purchase, knowing that the lease potential was out there. It seemed a reasonable expectation, as all their other lead models are available to existing customers by lease.

The net effect for me is to move away from using Dish as a service provider. I accept MrC's free-market argument, and conclude that paying for TV at all is a dubious personal priority.

I also wholeheartedly agree with ddinsm that this forum and site are great assets. I have learned a lot, in this case perhaps too much. :sure:

Brian


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## SoonerSteve

I have also been lurking this thread and following on the discussion. I would have to respectfully disagree with MrC.

Firstly, cable does not give the boxes away. TWC in my area charges $10 per month to rent a HD DVR box. That is in addition to any HD programming fees.

Also, I understand that Dish is a business and must make decisions that jibe with their profit goals. However, I have been a subscriber for 4 years on the DHP plan. For the three receivers I have I pay an additional $15 per month (I know $5 of that is buried in the base programming rate for AT120). Considering I have paid for two upgrades to DVR's (one 508 and one 510) and laid out $99 each time, I have spent over $900 just in lease fees. That does not even include the Dish on Demand fee for the 510 (another $84). I am no accountant, but considering depreciation I figure Dish has come out all right in the deal with me. 

Why then should I be denied the same lease deal that a new customer gets? And even if they cut the commitment to 18 months I would outlay a guaranteed $340 ($250 upfront + $5/month lease fee). With MPEG4 having no concrete dates at this point it would most likely be even more than that before I look to upgrade. Not to mention I would be increasing my programming package to get HD content.

I am not looking to get something for free or work the system in my favor. I have heard Charlie speak about the issue of new customer incentives on chats and explain about the investment made in new customers and agree that it should be some time before they can have another incentive. After 4 years and nearly $1,000 in lease fees have I not paid and waited enough?

Frankly, the only reason that I have not made the switch to cable is its horrendous PQ. My neighbor has the TWC HD service and my SD PQ is better than some of his HD channels. I suppose I will be patient for now, especially with some of the rumored equipment deals coming from the satellite competition. 

I really like Dish and would prefer to keep my business there. They need to get their act together and have a set threshold for existing customers to have access to some good incentives.


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## hdaddikt

Bichon said:


> One of the reason that I purchased instead of leased is that they won't let you self-install on a lease. Mandatory professional installation is one of the reasons I never subscribed to Voom.


Not entirely true, unless you are only talking about the 942? I am leasing my 811 with a 50 dollar deposit. I installed myself. Just did a swap with an older receiver. 
I am also leasing a 510. 
When it came to Voom, I did not see a big advantage of having to scramble up dish parts over paying someone 100 to do the whole thing, which included upgrading hardware to DishPro.


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## hdaddikt

Now here's the $64.000 question, if I get a 942 now and don't opt for a mpeg4 receiver downstream, what will I really be missing in terms of choices and/or performance? Something substantial?


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## hdaddikt

treiher said:


> Anyway, long rant . . . sorry! I'll sit back now watch this get picked apart!


You raised some good points. I pay $30 a month for Comcast HSInternet. Well worth it. I went to quit about 6 mos. ago, because I was paying $52/mo and could get SBC DSL for half that price. I could have paid only 30/mo by signing up for cableTV. Now way that was going to happen. 
When I told Comcast that, they asked me if I would consider 30/mo with a 1 year committment. I said, sure, why not? But why was I not offered that choice before?

She said, very simply. People usually call us to complain because they have a billing or technical problem. Nobody calls and says "I am paying too much". They either keep paying or just quit. I don't like people to quit, so I am offering you this promotion.

Customer service comes in all kinds of flavors and then there is little to none. 
Overall, I've been quite pleased with Dish. I've also been fortunate to live in areas where the installations performed were by experienced people, and after 3 moves, and about as many receiver changes over several years I have to say a bad remote is about my only complaint. Other than the usual quirkiness of the 811 many of us share.

Now, I'll stop jabbering for a while and give someone else the floor... :lol:


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## treiher

Never said I wouldn't pick back!

Mr.C



> I think the "loyal customer" argument here is pretty odd. All of us "loyal customers" are not loyal in the least - in fact, given a better overall value elsewhere, we'd all jump ship. "Long-time customers" perhaps, but loyal, unlikely. And to threaten to leave after using the term "loyality" is misguided at best.


Fair enough about the loyal customer thing. Probably my lazy (or misguided) way of saying "long time customer who is motivated to stay".

Mr.C


> There is another way to look at this - if we can't afford to pay for the goods, we could find a way to earn more money, so that we could, rather than extorting a company to give us the freebies or unwarranted discounts. Hmmm...


Also, I thought I laid out a pretty good argument as to why I DON'T think Dish should just give equipment way. I am suggesting that discounted upfront lease options like the 942 $250 deal are a good idea and it is not impossible to see a legitimate business model for that. If leaving Dish because I can get a much better deal elsewhere or because they did not give me the same deal that other subscribers got equals extortion, then I think you just turned your loyal customer argument upside down. If there's no such thing as loyal customer, then there is also no such thing as extortion (at least in this context). After all, I only have the power to do what I can do legally.

Finally, those of us who have the money to afford the $700 hardware probably have the money in the first place because we . . . yes . . .earn it, but just as importantly, evaluate how we spend it. Hmmm...

Good discussion and I too need to add my complements to DBSTalk.com!!!


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## prymtym99

i too have enjoyed reading through many threads and have learned a lot as well through dbstalk...

[/rant on]

in responding to mr. c, however, let's take my situation for example. i pay approximately $86 per month in programming. i will occasionally buy a pay per view movie every now and again, which bumps my monthly to over $90. but all told, i will spend close to $1100 per year in programming costs alone, not including the old 6000 legacy receiver i paid $600 for when it first came out, and the 811 i paid $600 for when it first came out.

that being said, does it make sense for dish to piss off a "loyal" customer like me who shells out over $1000 to them a year by not offering them a little break on equipment that probably costs them less than $100 to make?

so instead of offering customers like me a deal on the 942, either the $250 lease deal or a purchase option of even $400, they'd rather lose my $1000+ _every year_ instead of losing a couple of hundred bucks up front from pure profit on the 942? now THAT doesn't make good business sense.

so dish, instead of trying to lure potential new customers who you may not even get as customers, how about the millions of customers you do already have right now that are currently paying your salaries?

as was stated by another poster, the cell phone providers had the same mentality a number of years ago but realized that it does not make good business sense to piss off your current customers because they will jump ship in a heartbeat. instead, by extending the same offers to current customers as you do new customers, you keep everyone happy.

[/rant off]


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## Bichon

treiher said:


> but could certainly discount and lease like the $250 942 deal. Still get some money, and keep people happy, and keep them as customers for another 2 years (or whatever the commitment would be).


Not really. Before that two year commitment is up, there is a good chance that Dish will have begun rolling out a few MPEG4 HD channels. And no doubt, many of those who took advantage of a $250 942 lease deal would want a low (or no) cost upgrade to a comparable MPEG4 DVR. So Dish would have to subsidize ANOTHER upgrade.



> they did not give me the same deal that other subscribers got


That $250 for existing customers was never intended to be a deal. It was special consideration, done for a handful of customers that complained to the executive offices. The problem - the people who got that special consideration posted about it on the forums, which no doubt created a deluge of people who wanted "in".


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## MrC

> Why then should I be denied the same lease deal that a new customer gets?


I'm really purplexed at why so many people have this "I'm entitled because I want to be" argument. Just becausae you want something, does not mean you should get it, have a right to get it, or is anyone else obligated to give it. You are denied simply because Dish made a choice, one that you don't agree with, to not offer current subs. Game over! I think you also are smart enough to realize that by tweaking any business dial, there will be a change. But Dish is betting, and rightly so, that most people do not have the conviction to leave, so the promotions for new customers end up with a net sum gain. Look at Dish's track record! It works! That's why you are "denied."



> After 4 years and nearly $1,000 in lease fees have I not paid and waited enough?


This statement is only meaningful if it is rhetorical. You pay in arrears. You agree to accept one month service for the price you agree to with dish. You can't then at the end of the term or multiple of terms demand more for a completed transaction and expect to get it! That's silly.



> They need to get their act together and have a set threshold for existing customers to have access to some good incentives.


They do! Do you think that you pay the true market value for your programming? Think again. The cost of launching satelites, maintaining the equipment and business, is very expensive. And stockholders are not very happy about those 10s or 100s of millions of subsidies to make existing customers more happy, when there is no evidence that they will bail in droves otherwise! Look at Dish's 5 year net profit margin - its negative!



> I am suggesting that discounted upfront lease options like the 942 $250 deal are a good idea and it is not impossible to see a legitimate business model for that.


Good idea for consideration maybe - but legitimate business models require numbers. Since your points did not demonstrate a true business case, its speculation and hope at best.



> If leaving Dish because I can get a much better deal elsewhere or because they did not give me the same deal that other subscribers got equals extortion, then I think you just turned your loyal customer argument upside down. If there's no such thing as loyal customer, then there is also no such thing as extortion (at least in this context)


We're in agreement. My argument was for those in favor of chanting the loyalty chant, but then using the extortion tact if loyalty does appear to pay off. Since there is no loyalty in these monthy business arrangements, there is also no extortion. You and I are both meaning the same thing.



> probably costs them less than $100 to make?


Where do you get such numbers! If you think the CoG and R&D is about $100, and that Dish is making about $600/unit, now might be a time to reduce that herb! 



> they'd rather lose my $1000+ every year instead of losing a couple of hundred bucks up front from pure profit on the 942? now THAT doesn't make good business sense.


See argument above about lack of conviction.



> as was stated by another poster, the cell phone providers had the same mentality a number of years ago but realized that it does not make good business sense to piss off your current customers because they will jump ship in a heartbeat. instead, by extending the same offers to current customers as you do new customers, you keep everyone happy.


 You need to do some biz review 101. The cell phone companies are in a world of hurt, and this industry is going through a major shakeup with M&As and failures. By no means are they a good buisness model. It has also been shown that the net customer migragtion was a wash. So this argument doesn't hold water either.


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## 120inna55

Bichon said:


> The problem - the people who got that special consideration posted about it on the forums, which no doubt created a deluge of people who wanted "in".


I agree with you. I was unfortunately one of those people. I found out about it on the forums and I acted. I emailed executive offices a kind letter and reiterated that I was a loyal customer of 8 yrs. I did not threaten to leave, but I actually did the opposite. Here's an excerpt from the closing paragraph of the email I sent them:


> Whatever your decision may be, I will not threaten to leave Dish Network. I think I have made it clear that I am quite pleased with your company and service, and I appreciate the fact that I can email you with such concerns. It is because of this down-to-Earth policy, that I will remain a loyal customer.


When I was contacted by A****a at executive offices and offered the _942 lease deal_, she never asked me to keep this a secret. In fact I told her that "friends" had told me of their success in appealing to executive offices by way of email.

I truly took the offer as a gesture of kindness from Dish Network in direct response to my email. I never intended to betray Dish Network's trust. If she'd told me to keep it hush-hush, I would have.

When new (MPEG4 equipped) boxes come around , I don't expect special treatment. I expect I will have to lay down some cash, and I will. Maybe I've just been lucky, but I feel I've been treated fairly by Dish Network for the past 8 years, not just since the 942 deal. I certainly don't have the "what have you done for me lately" attitude. But now I regret telling my good fortune on the forums, because I see that it has resulted in hurt feelings to other loyal Dish Network customers. And _that_ was _never_ my intent.


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## SoonerSteve

MrC said:


> I'm really purplexed at why so many people have this "I'm entitled because I want to be" argument. Just becausae you want something, does not mean you should get it, have a right to get it, or is anyone else obligated to give it. You are denied simply because Dish made a choice, one that you don't agree with, to not offer current subs. Game over! I think you also are smart enough to realize that by tweaking any business dial, there will be a change. But Dish is betting, and rightly so, that most people do not have the conviction to leave, so the promotions for new customers end up with a net sum gain. Look at Dish's track record! It works! That's why you are "denied."


Before I launch into my response I do want to express my gratitude for a forum to respectfully discuss the issue. As you can see I am new to this board and love the information.

Now, I was not speaking out of a sense of entitlement. I was simply pointing out, correctly in my opinion, that in terms of the business model I am a success for Dish Network. I did not address my programming fees. I am extremely happy with that aspect of the business arrangement.

There is no termination of the Digital Home Plan that I can find. Does Dish expect me to keep paying a lease fee even after the cost of the unit has been covered?

If you take the full MSRP of the receivers I have, add the money I have paid in lease fees and subtract the depreciation Dish can take on the receiver they have come out quite nicely. Hell, even if there is no depreciation they are doing fine in terms of their cost.

Perhaps you are right and they are betting on people like me that are satisfied overall with the product and won't leave over this issue. After reading these boards and others I can see there are many like me that have been turned off by their response to the 942 lease issue.

I don't begrudge those that were able to get the lease. I tried it also, but came in too late. For the record I tried a little CSR roulette and both of the "outsourced" people I spoke with this evening still had it in their system that the 942 was only available via the retail channel. I still hope that the deal will happen eventually and I will be able to fully enjoy my new Panny HDTV. Of course I still believe in a jolly fat guy that slides down my chimney each year to deliver gifts so take that with a grain of salt.


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## Charise

The change to MPEG4 is what is causing the problem for me. I will not pay over $700 for the 942 now, which has been said by reliable sources to NOT be upgradeable to MPEG4. I was willing to part with $250 for a leased 942, so I could then upgrade to their new, MPEG4, dual-tuner DVR without simply losing $450 (minus monthly lease fee).

Along with the $250 for the 942, I would also have been paying an additional $5/mo for the DVR since I don't have AEP, the $5 lease fee, plus an additional $15 for the HD package.

Is this still making sense not to lease me a 942? Without a lease deal for existing customers, they are losing my additional money because I will wait until they switch to MPEG4.

If I have to buy another receiver, I will wait until there are no announced changes coming to make it obsolete within 2 years. I realize there will always be more changes, but this one has already been announced for 2005-06.


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## UT_Texan

MrC,
I take offense that you believe I have no loyalty, especially to Dish. I wouldn't just jump ship for a better deal or I already would have months ago. Instead I make an offer to E* and they politely refuse and inform me that a promotion is coming in a couple of weeks. My response is great, can't wait for it to be released. Then I learn the only deal is that they are now offering the 942 directly. Now lets step back a second. They had the 921 out for almost 2 yrs only through retailers, then in Dec. they decide to sell direct and offer at 1/2 price. Obviously the 942 has only been out for a few months but has been talked about for over a year so it would only make sense that they not offer at 1/2 price. I would expect a better deal than MSRP though. I don't think I have ever paid for something at MSRP and probably wouldn't because it is always an inflated price. With all that said, I am a loyal customer and will continue to be one mainly because another competitor would treat my loyalty no differently. It is just a shame Dish doesn't recognize my loyalty.

We don't get breaks from most companies. 
Of course we do. Do we not get sales ads every week, don't most companies honor 30 day price guarantees. More often than not companies make exceptions to their policies because it is the best thing to do.

Money is not the issue. I have the money no problemo. It is the CBA that I don't like. Look at the 921. It is out for 2 yrs and is dropped from the current line. 3 months before the 942 came out the 921 dropped in price by half. I think it is a safe assumption similiar things will occur when the 962 comes out. Dish has already said any new HD content will be in mpeg4. Yes they did add Voom but I think this was clearly a one time exception.

I am glad other subs were able to get the deal when they could and they should feel no shame in getting the deal. I should have jumped on it when I could have. 

This whole issue boils down to value. Does Dish value me as a customer as I value them in improving my quality of life. The answer is no. They only value that which they don't have. Sure we all probably got a great deal as a new customer but how long ago was that and has that value detoriated? The answer is yes. Dish would be out of business if we left. 

To change the tone to a positive one, I praise thanks to this board, the mods, the beta testers, and members and anyone else I might have missed. I value this "free" board and have already returned that value with a donation and will make more in the future. My apologies for such a lengthy post.

So raise your glasses, here's one to value and loyalty! :grin: :grin: :grin:


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## MrC

UT_Texan, your "loyalty" plays perfectly well into the business case Dish has made to not offer a more aggressive deal for the 942.

And as for the "of course we do" get breaks from companies, you're confusing "breaks" (i.e. "for you my friend...") with promotional, sales, and marketing strategies designed for short or long term gain. And no, by definition, companies cannot make exceptions more often than not, or that would be the new policy!


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## kermit24

After reading the flood of new posts, I have been analyzing why Dish would offer the 942 at a discounted price. The answer is that they figured out that they don't need to! Unfortunately, they lied to a few customers about a promotion that was never coming before they figured that out!

Reasons:

1. DirecTV's similar equipment it not offered at a lower price.
2. DirecTV HD programming does not match what Dish is offering (Especially with the VOOM content at 61.5) and from what I have read of the "HDLite" quality

AT THIS TIME, we (Dish's "long time" high revenue, HD customers) don't have a HD DBS alternative that is more attractive - we all know what cable has, but thats an entirely different beast

The good news for us that can't find the logic in paying $700 for a box that will be obsolete within 12 months, is that soon, there will be more and more compelling reasons to jump ship. When those reasons are real (lower cost HD DVR's from DirecTV, local ABC, NBC, and FOX HD networks) Dish will then need to develop a more compelling offer to stay competitive in the rapidly growing HD world.

My issue with Dish is not that I fell like I should be "entitled" to any special treatment. *It is that someone (Judd) from their own company told me to call back on July 14th for an existing customer promotion on the 942. A promotion, that so far, does not exist*.


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## jcord51

Quote: I am glad other subs were able to get the deal when they could and they should feel no shame in getting the deal. I should have jumped on it when I could have. 

 I'm one of the "lucky" Subs that took advantage of the 942 lease deal. But I'm also one of the "lucky" guys that was able to purchase the 921 for a $1,000 instead of the projected $1,300 and had to wait almost a year, after paying upfront, to receive the 921. You could just imagine how I feel about the state of the 921  This is but one of the factors I used to get my 942 from Dish.


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## Paradox-sj

I just think its funny how so many people think that the 942 will be a boat anchor with in 12 months...

First- This comment has been going since the word mpeg4 was mentioned...without any plans I might add.

Second- Please take a look a E* track record...have they EVER been on schedule even when they had a plan?

Third- All the while you could be enjoying the benifits of a 942 if you would just go ahead and get one NOW...this is after all consumer electronics...the next best things is ALWAYS right around the coronor anyway.

Fourth and last- All that is HD and DBS...this hobby we have chosen...isnt cheap especially IF you want to be "first on the block" so to speak....maybe some of you ought to go back to a less expensive hobby (say bird watching) and quit complaining about how much you dont want to spend blah blah blah. Hey...bird watching is a great idea its resolution is way better than SD or HD and there arent any reruns...


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## zephyr

Paradox-sj said:


> ....maybe some of you ought to go back to a less expensive hobby (say bird watching) and quit complaining about how much you dont want to spend blah blah blah. Hey...bird watching is a great idea its resolution is way better than SD or HD and there arent any reruns...


The telephoto lenses are way too expensive.


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## UT_Texan

Paradox-sj said:


> I just think its funny how so many people think that the 942 will be a boat anchor with in 12 months...
> 
> First- This comment has been going since the word mpeg4 was mentioned...without any plans I might add.
> 
> Second- Please take a look a E* track record...have they EVER been on schedule even when they had a plan?
> 
> Third- All the while you could be enjoying the benifits of a 942 if you would just go ahead and get one NOW...this is after all consumer electronics...the next best things is ALWAYS right around the coronor anyway.
> 
> Fourth and last- All that is HD and DBS...this hobby we have chosen...isnt cheap especially IF you want to be "first on the block" so to speak....maybe some of you ought to go back to a less expensive hobby (say bird watching) and quit complaining about how much you dont want to spend blah blah blah. Hey...bird watching is a great idea its resolution is way better than SD or HD and there arent any reruns...


First, 921 is already on its way down, Dish no longer has it on their site as a receiver. What do you think will happen with the 942 when the 962 comes out. Especially since any new hd content will be mpeg4

Second, they are all that far off, maybe with the 921 but they seem to be getting their act together (hence 942)

Third, why dish out $600 - $800 when the next receiver should be out in a yr or so. (pure speculation) That equates to about 50-65 bucks a month


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## zephyr

Just for the record, this is from the 'My Account' page on Dish's website:

"As a valued customer, you can choose from several receiver upgrade options that will allow you to get the most out of your television viewing experience! Upgrade to any of the receiver options below with no equipment to buy!"

It goes on to list the 811, 510 and 301 receivers.

Two points:
The idea of rewarding existing customers is their marketing concept, not ours.
Seems they don't want to lease any two-tuner or multi-room receivers to existing customers. All the lease receivers are a generation back.


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## Stewart Vernon

zephyr said:


> Just for the record, this is from the 'My Account' page on Dish's website:
> 
> "As a valued customer, you can choose from several receiver upgrade options that will allow you to get the most out of your television viewing experience! Upgrade to any of the receiver options below with no equipment to buy!"
> 
> It goes on to list the 811, 510 and 301 receivers.
> 
> Two points:
> The idea of rewarding existing customers is their marketing concept, not ours.
> Seems they don't want to lease any two-tuner or multi-room receivers to existing customers. All the lease receivers are a generation back.


I think it is different for different customers.

When I go to the receiver upgrade options section... I see a 522 listed as a receiver I can lease. The 522 is a dual-tuner, but isn't an HD receiver unfortunately.

So I don't have an option to lease a 942 like I'd want... but I do have an option for a dual tuner receiver.


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## zephyr

HDMe said:


> I think it is different for different customers.
> 
> When I go to the receiver upgrade options section... I see a 522 listed as a receiver I can lease. The 522 is a dual-tuner, but isn't an HD receiver unfortunately.
> 
> So I don't have an option to lease a 942 like I'd want... but I do have an option for a dual tuner receiver.


interesting...

The website also only offers the 322 and 625 to new customers. The 942 is noted for new customers only through purchase from an authorized Dish retailer.

I think it's all about Dish supporting authorized retailers by giving them the exclusive right to sell the latest technology to existing customers. That seems like a reasonable and consistent business model.


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## treiher

zephyr said:


> interesting...
> I think it's all about Dish supporting authorized retailers by giving them the exclusive right to sell the latest technology to existing customers. That seems like a reasonable and consistent business model.


I had that thought too, and that makes about as much sense as anything. I wonder what the reaction was from the authorized retailers who are selling the 942 out right when they got wind that Dish was giving it to existing subscribers for $250 on a lease if they asked for it? They probably got thems selves into a bit of a jam over that one!


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## gezs

I sent an email yesterday to CEO address and got a reply today saying due to being a loyal customer that they would make an exception to the new customer policy and make it available to me for the one time fee of $250 and gave me a phone number to contact him if I have any questions.

For informations sake.. 
Subscribed in Oct. 2000
Only have 2 receivers on account.
I am not under contract.
I explained the offer comcast extended to me but explained that I prefer to stay with dish even though I will be paying about $20/month more.

I am installing a front projection home theater that this will be the receiver for and will keep my 2 current receivers.


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## zephyr

curiouser and curiouser...


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## ewonder

OK I had a long night to kill (working graveyard this week) so I enjoyed reading all the posts regarding the 942 lease. I remember a while back there was a similar discussion about purchasing a 721 for $250 from dish, which I took advantage of and have been very happy with ever since. Now I have the nice plasma and want to clean up my picture. As before I just emailed the Executive folks and asked politely whether I could take advantage of the $250 lease. If they say yes then I will be happy, if I am denied then I will not get my feelings hurt. I've been a customer for almost 6 years, I am anxious to hear whether I make the cut for a new receiver.


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## ucop27

For anyone that has gotten the 942 on a lease does it include a DP44, another dish for 61.5 or anything else you might need to use more than 4 lines? Also did they let you do your own install? I have done all my own installs, including the superdish that the guys worked all day on and couldn't get working, and would prefer to do my own intsall.


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## MrC

ewonder said:


> OK I had a long night to kill (working graveyard this week) so I enjoyed reading all the posts regarding the 942 lease. I remember a while back there was a similar discussion about purchasing a 721 for $250 from dish, which I took advantage of and have been very happy with ever since. Now I have the nice plasma and want to clean up my picture. As before I just emailed the Executive folks and asked politely whether I could take advantage of the $250 lease. If they say yes then I will be happy, if I am denied then I will not get my feelings hurt. I've been a customer for almost 6 years, I am anxious to hear whether I make the cut for a new receiver.


ewonder, I think that is an outstanding outlook and attitude! Now if you could only bottle and sell it ! Best of luck and here's hoping for your new 942.


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## cyphire

gezs said:


> I sent an email yesterday to CEO address and got a reply today saying due to being a loyal customer that they would make an exception to the new customer policy and make it available to me for the one time fee of $250 and gave me a phone number to contact him if I have any questions.
> 
> 
> 
> I have been a loyal Dish network customer - it has not been reciprocated.
> 
> 
> 
> For informations sake..
> Subscribed in Oct. 2000
> Only have 2 receivers on account.
> I am not under contract.
> I explained the offer comcast extended to me but explained that I prefer to stay with dish even though I will be paying about $20/month more.
> 
> I am installing a front projection home theater that this will be the receiver for and will keep my 2 current receivers.


WISH this was my experience... Still yet to get a call back from 'Gary' in the executive office. Here is my current gripe so far....: It started with the 921 - Paid a lot of money - horrible software - I spent more time debugging the unit than many DISH employees:::

******** OPEN LETTER - WILL BE POSTING TO ALL FORUMS ********

************** STAY AWAY FROM DISH!!! ****************

************* REALIZE THE HIDDEN COSTS ***************

***** THEY WILL NOT COMPETE TECHNOLOGY-WISE

***************** WITH CABLE!!! ********************

*** YOU BEAR THE COST OF PURCHASING THEIR TECHNOLOGY ***

*********** WHETHER IT WORKS OR NOT!!!! ************** *

Hi ALl - Spoke to the Executive Office (Gary)... He would not let me do the 942 lease. I was very nice to him (and everyone on the phone), despite the fact that the Automated Attendant that Dish uses put me on dead hold (lost call) 4 times in a row. After 1/2 hour of this - I finally got someone - who after I explained the entire situation - hung up on me by accident (on purpose - sometimes it's easier to hang up that deal with something outside your area!).

Finally got another support person who, again, I explained the whole 942 situation to and asked to get to the executive office (again). I was told that I couldn't speak to them without first support trying to solve my problem. After waiting on hold for 10 minutes - the guy came back and said 'No problem! It will be $798'. I explained that that was not the lease but the full retail and he put me back on hold. Came back to me and said that the manager would move me to the executive office.

Now it's about 1.25 hours with Dish. This is quite usual sometimes - their support is a combination of good sometimes and horrific some other times as well as being overloaded many times! Trying to get 2nd level support for the 921 now means going to 3 people - the initial support - the advanced support - and then the guy/girl who is their report - as they really can't usually help me without them! Again - support system needs to be fixed.

Got Gary on the phone from the executive office. He was very nice. He tried to get me the lease - I had to run out (was late for a piano lesson) and my wife took over now that the technical stuff was done and she was on the phone with Gary. He came back to her and said 'sorry', there will be a promotion in 4-6 months and I am out of luck.

Here is my problem. Have been a loyal dish customer for over 5 years. Have bought a 921 at initial retail ($1000.00), before that bought a 6000 for full retail (forgot how much think 700-800$, have spent 400-600 on satelight guys to do wiring that I can't do and dish installation, this is on top of the 'Dish movers guys' who were very nice but brutally incompetent which is why I had to pay for installation anyway! I pay $120 / month for dish - have 3 301's - a 4900 - a 6000 (not using) - a 501 - a 921 - and a 6 month old HD receiver (forgot the model but its on a High Def in my office).

I would say at this point - I need to sell my equip - stop going down a bad path - and get with cable. My cable company has been pushing me to go with their HD package - and I am tired of the 'hidden cost' of DISH.

I guess that they don't want my $1,500 / year, the rest of my family's 3,000 / year, and whatever business I can scare away on my 50 websites and my 200 employees. I have been debugging the 921 since I had one of the first ones in So. Cal - I am a serious computer geek - but DISH doesn't give a crap that I have had to use a piece of garbage (921) and constantly find 'kludges' to get around the software.

p.s. Still get the wrong guide info, lose local channels, have a horrible interface that only i can use in my house (forget my kids / wife trying to deal with the pathetic software which it uses), until recently it would sometimes show the previous show for 0 minutes and then the new show 30 min but the DVR would list the previous show (so I would have to scan through EVERY SHOW ON MY DVR hoping to remember what show it is - CONSTANT RESETTING NEEDED (even up to last night - gets stuck at the end of a recorded show - sometimes cannot bring up the DVR list (only guide). ECT ECT ECT.... At least I can now start telling the world about the horrors of the DISH!!!

Anyway - sorry for the rant - I am going Cable and am going to make sure that I cost Dish 20K at least (I'm sure I will I've recommended that much for them until the 921 debacle)

Brian B. Canin


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## cyphire

Sorry put the: 




I have been a loyal Dish network customer - it has not been reciprocated.


Inside the previous posts quotes... Didn't mean to....


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## robo45h

I can confirm that the new "offer" for existing customers is to purchase directly from Dish for $798 including installation. This is considered a "new offer" because 1) in the past, existing customers had to purchase from a reseller, and 2) the reseller installation was usually more expensive and not a flat fee. Wish I'd gotten in on the $250 lease deal being given to some existing customers. Has anyone received the $250 lease "exception" for existing customers since July 15th?


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## hdaddikt

It seems the biggest fork in the road is the MPEG-4 issue. We have learned these receivers will require more than a software change. 
But the bigger issue is the immediacy of MPEG-4. 
If it turns out it's within 6 months, Dish's reluctance to lease the 942 to existing customers (still not sure why there should be a difference, I can't believe 250 bucks is chump change to most new customers) could be a blessing in disguise. Maybe....but then we get a newer receiver, at least as expensive, and still no lease option? We gained MPEG-4 but so will everyone, eventually. 

cyphire,

Sorry for your horrible experience, Brian. I think most of us are NOT true loyalists but simply have been fortunate enough not to have such a bad experience. And you can read similar horror stories with regards to any provider.
That may not be much consolation, but it is your entertainment dollars, and you have the right to expect service commensurate with what you are paying.

Best of luck to you!


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## ewonder

In case anyone is curious, I emailed the Execs on Friday morning about taking advantage of the "new Customer" 942 purchase. Having been a "loyal customer" going on 6 years, I thought I would give it a try. Here is the response i got back today:


Thank you for your email.

Currently we don't have a 942 lease promotion for existing customers. 

We are selling the 942 for $798 including install. IF you would like to take
up in this offer please give Dish Network a call.

As well stay tuned to Charlie Chats and DishNetwork.com for future
promotions. 

Thank you,


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## ucop27

I also emailed them yesterday morning asking for the $250 lease deal, as of this time I haven't recieved a response, which I am hoping is a good thing.


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## the_bear

ewonder said:


> As well stay tuned to Charlie Chats and DishNetwork.com for future
> promotions.


LA will probably be one of the first DMAs to get all locals HD from DBS MPEG4. It would not be in Dish's best interest to upgrade you to a 942 now only to have to upgrade you again to a 962 next year.


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## ucop27

What about this scenario, what if one was to cancel their service and have their spouse sign up for dish? Would they or would they not be eligble for the 942 lease as a new customer? Just an idea.


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## Mike D-CO5

As long as the new customer doesn't use the same credit card to pay for it , it should work. Try it on the dish website and see if you can order it online. IF it allows you to order online and complete the order you should be good to go.


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## ucop27

Well I got the dreaded call tonight, NEW CUSTOMERS only  , oh well, I guess I will have to go to the local satelitte guru and see what he can do for me.


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## gdarwin

This thread is getting old.... How many people are going to try to get a freebe???  Just go with the flow and except the current Dish offerings..


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## treiher

gdarwin said:


> This thread is getting old.... How many people are going to try to get a freebe??? Just go with the flow and except the current Dish offerings..


You may disagree with the approach, and Dish would have been better off not offering the lease to some existing customers which has no doubt frustrated other people. But I fail to see where $250 + 2 year committment + additional $5 a month is a "freebe!" Can you explain that?


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## Bichon

treiher said:


> But I fail to see where $250 + 2 year committment + additional $5 a month is a "freebe!" Can you explain that?


Maybe not a freebie, but a heavily subsidized offer. The two year commitment is to stay with Dish, not to keep the 942. If in 6-8 months, Dish adds the 10 remaining Voom channels and perhaps more in MPEG4, don't you think that a substantial percentage of the people who leased the 942 will be clamoring for an upgrade to a comparable MPEG4 DVR? The economics on the 942 at that point will be $250 + 30-40 in upgrade and lease fees ($280-290) on a receiver that likely costs at least twice that much to manufacture. So they'll be out $300+ dollars on that receiver, while they have a customer that says "I just paid $250 six months ago" looking for a free or low cost lease on the MPEG4 DVR.


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## hdaddikt

I got my "Dear John..." letter. The 942 is only available by purchase..blah blah...I'm an old time customer (an old timer too..) but in any event, maybe it's just as well.
I would imagine a MPEG4 revised DVR before too long. It would likely default to MPEG2 for present programming untii the rest of the industry is in synch. Maybe they introduced the 942 too early, and should have been more prepared for the next technology jump. But I am sure they have been enjoying some nice profits in the meantime.


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## cleblanc

Bichon said:


> Maybe not a freebie, but a heavily subsidized offer.


I would have to say that Dish is the one who has been heavily subsidized by all the people who bought the 921 especially at the $999 price point. We have been beta testers for them for the last 18 months. Dish had done the right thing in dropping the price to $549 since it was not worth the original price given the fact that features originally advertised were taken away and the many bugs that still exist today. 
For those people that bought the 921 at $999, I feel they should automatically be given the option to lease the 942 for the $250 upgrade fee. That would be the fair thing to do. For those that bought in at $549 or lower I think got a good value and should not be eligible.


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## zephyr

Bichon said:


> Maybe not a freebie, but a heavily subsidized offer. ....


 :eek2: Well, I was going to go with gdarwin and the sentiment that this thread is getting old. enough already.

but I just can't help myself: even if the technology is replaced by mpeg4 in a year, the receiver will have residual value. Somebody would no doubt be willing to pay Dish up to half the original cost. Admittedly Dish could be out the trade-in upgrade cost to mpeg4, if they offer that.

$250 down is like leasing a $30,000 car with an $11,000 down payment - hardly a freebie.


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## hdaddikt

zephyr said:


> $250 down is like leasing a $30,000 car with an $11,000 down payment - hardly a freebie.


Well, it gets down to folks willing to spend 700-800 bucks and buy a 942 with the imaginary promise Dish will give them a 'low price' upgrade for MPEG4.

OR

Lease for $250 (new customers only) and get the SAME offer for upgrading to MPEG4.

I don't think leasing or buying a car has a parallel to THIS situation.

Hopefully E & Co. grabble with this issue at the Chat. There may be a 3rd and better choice coming down the line.


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## prymtym99

hdaddikt said:


> There may be a 3rd and better choice coming down the line.


yeah...

they'll allow existing customers to purchase the 942 for $798, and we'll have to give up our firstborn... :nono:


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## hdaddikt

prymtym99 said:


> yeah...
> 
> they'll allow existing customers to purchase the 942 for $798, and we'll have to give up our firstborn... :nono:


They can have my first-born.. I think he is still looking for a job!


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## Phil Smith

I haven't been here in a while. The last I looked at this thread there was debate whether lease customers were charged a $5 a month leasing fee. I have received 2 bills so far and haven't been charged that fee. I also called Dish and was assured I will never be charged a lease fee, even after my promotional period expires.

So at least for me, there is no monthly lease fee.


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## gck105

I tried talking to a CSR and then I emailed [email protected] with no luck on a 942 lease. To lease a 811 they told me I needed to spend $200. I just read that Charlie Ergen was listed in the Forbes 400, 30th richest American, worth 7.1 Billion. He can afford to upgrade me for free. I just ordered cable until they get this MPEG 4 figured out.


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