# Question about 622 tuners



## Freckles (Jun 13, 2005)

I was disappointed that the 622 has only one HD out. According to what I read, it sounds like it has dual HD tuners but downconverts output to TV2. Is that right? 

My question is whether the second tuner could allow HD output with software updates. Sorry if this is a stupid question...:blush: (Definitely not my first and probably not my last). 

I would like to get another HDTV in addition to the two we have now, but we don't have enough HD to go around.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Unfortunately the NTSC output that is TV2 will never carry HD (it isn't capable).
An independent HD output has been talked about before ... so far I havn't seen any receiver or DVR with independent HD outputs - The ViP-622 will not be the first.


----------



## Freckles (Jun 13, 2005)

Thanks for the info James.


----------



## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Just speculating here...

Since HDMI is digital and supposed to be "untouched" digital signal (whatever untouched means)... and the HD Component outputs are analog processed signal...

(see where I'm going with this yet?)

I wonder... without wandering into hack talk I hope... how tied together these two outputs are mechanically? IF they are separated (i.e. not fed from some mechanically common source, which seems to make sense otherwise both would be processed signal and supposedly HDMI is not)... then I wonder if there could be a software enhancement in the future to allow the HDMI and Component output to be from different tuners as a selectable option?

Obviously not of value unless you had a TV with HDMI and another with Component... but a tantalizing possibility perhaps?

Just speculation.


----------



## Bradtothebone (Aug 11, 2003)

I have read elsewhere that the TV1 component and HDMI are both active all the time. This would at least allow you to feed two HDTV's with the same programming simultaneously. Maybe not what you were hoping, but it's something!

Brad


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

HDMe said:


> Just speculating here...
> 
> Since HDMI is digital and supposed to be "untouched" digital signal (whatever untouched means)... and the HD Component outputs are analog processed signal...


If I were a board designer I'd connect the feeds going to HDMI to the inputs of the processor that creates the component outputs. It DOES look like (from the similar ViP-211) that the AV autput (composite and RF modulated) is a separate feed (on the 211 one can change the aspect ratio on HD separate from SD). It seems like a lot of work to generate a HDMI signal and a Composite signal in software when they are both designed to give the same output.


----------



## 65notch (Feb 15, 2006)

I'm also disappointed that I can't watch HD in my bedroom, as I just ordered a 17" LCD TV/monitor that is HD ready.

Continuing on the tuner questions however, what I don't understand, how is the second tuner's signal sent? Looking at the pics of the back, it appears they can only be sent via composite cables, is that right? I sure hope the tech has composite cables that long. 

Finally, I've also got my old ATSC tuner, I should be able to split my RG6 line from my terrestial antenna to at least get OTA HD, since I'll have enough inputs avail.

Anyone know if the OTA tuner is different than the 411's? I've got the 411 until tomorrow, and am pretty happy with it. At least compared to my old model.


----------



## fireman_mck (Feb 1, 2006)

65notch said:


> Continuing on the tuner questions however, what I don't understand, how is the second tuner's signal sent? Looking at the pics of the back, it appears they can only be sent via composite cables, is that right? I sure hope the tech has composite cables that long.


Composite or in most cases (like me) RF (labled Home Distribution).

Fireman_MCK


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

TV2 has AV or the "Home Distribution" RF output. (In other words, it broadcasts on a TV channel.)


----------



## 65notch (Feb 15, 2006)

James Long said:


> TV2 has AV or the "Home Distribution" RF output. (In other words, it broadcasts on a TV channel.)


ahhh that's right, I saw your FAQ, forgot about that.

Interesting, so does that mean I need some rabbit ears or anything for my TV2?


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Normally one runs a coax cable between the "Home Distribution" output and the second TV. It can get more complicated than that if you want to feed more than one TV2 or mix in OTA channels or other equipment.


----------



## bnewt (Oct 2, 2003)

I thought that I read that tv1 could also output via rf. Is that true?


----------



## 65notch (Feb 15, 2006)

James Long said:


> Normally one runs a coax cable between the "Home Distribution" output and the second TV. It can get more complicated than that if you want to feed more than one TV2 or mix in OTA channels or other equipment.


I see, but the the TV2 set has to be set to a preset, selectable channel? And then the channels are changed via the UHF remote?


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Yes. You set up the channels you want TV1 and TV2 to be on in the menus on the 622. You can watch whatever is being seen on TV1 on the one channel and whatever is being seen on TV2 on the other. You leave the remote TVs tuned to whatever channel you chose in the setup and change channels using your E* remote controls.

(The 622 comes with a UHF remote for TV2 - a IR remote included for TV1.)


----------



## jakattak (Feb 14, 2005)

65notch said:


> Interesting, so does that mean I need some rabbit ears or anything for my TV2?


no... this is like hooking up an old-school game console to a tv, where instead of using composite rca cables, you used an rf modulator and then had to tune your tv to either channel 2 or 3 (or 4 depending on modulator). connect a regular rg5 or rg6 coax cable between your 622's home distribution spot and your antenna-in on your second tv. then simiply keep your tv tuned to channel 3, or whatever channel you end up using.


----------



## sendy (Jan 18, 2006)

it's posible to use the Vip-622 in one tv set ? {no tv 2 not HD OUTPUT}


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

sendy said:


> it's posible to use the Vip-622 in one tv set ? {no tv 2 not HD OUTPUT}


Yes. You can even have HD PIP (picture in picture). If you don't have a HD set the 622 will output SD for you to use.


----------



## Freckles (Jun 13, 2005)

James Long said:


> Unfortunately the NTSC output that is TV2 will never carry HD (it isn't capable).





HDMe said:


> Just speculating here...
> 
> Since HDMI is digital and supposed to be "untouched" digital signal (whatever untouched means)... and the HD Component outputs are analog processed signal...





HDMe said:


> I wonder if there could be a software enhancement in the future to allow the HDMI and Component output to be from different tuners as a selectable option?...


Is the built-in tuner the only (or main) impediment to dual HD output? ie, could the box be upgraded to dual HD with only a software update? Or, how about a "simple"  hardware change with software update? Hopefully, that will be one of the next upgrades--a dual HD tuner receiver with dual HD output.

If only the 622 TV2 output could bypass the built-in tuner....


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

If by 'tuner' you mean TV2 AV and modulator outputs then it would be a redesign of the physical chassis - not software.


----------



## Rogueone (Jan 29, 2004)

Freckles said:


> Is the built-in tuner the only (or main) impediment to dual HD output? ie, could the box be upgraded to dual HD with only a software update? Or, how about a "simple"  hardware change with software update? Hopefully, that will be one of the next upgrades--a dual HD tuner receiver with dual HD output.
> 
> If only the 622 TV2 output could bypass the built-in tuner....


I'd think the HD output is fairly expensive, and I could see this option coming on a later model. most people don't need 2 HD outs, so it saves money out the gate. If, say in a year, they come out with a 624 or some such, it could be an additional couple hundred dollars and have the dual HD outs for those who need it. They could use the same chassis and all, just add the second set of outputs, so costs wouldn't have to be much higher, but then they'd have a solution for people with 1 HD tv and people with multiple, without incurring additional costs to the 622 now. but maybe there is some other reason we aren't aware of, but hopefully it could be this simple


----------



## jimb (Feb 13, 2006)

Rogueone said:


> I'd think the HD output is fairly expensive, and I could see this option coming on a later model. most people don't need 2 HD outs, so it saves money out the gate. If, say in a year, they come out with a 624 or some such, it could be an additional couple hundred dollars and have the dual HD outs for those who need it. They could use the same chassis and all, just add the second set of outputs, so costs wouldn't have to be much higher, but then they'd have a solution for people with 1 HD tv and people with multiple, without incurring additional costs to the 622 now. but maybe there is some other reason we aren't aware of, but hopefully it could be this simple


Even if they had 2 HD outs, there is a distance limitation on running a long component cable to the 2nd HDTV, correct? Doesn't seem pratical.


----------



## Freckles (Jun 13, 2005)

jimb said:


> Even if they had 2 HD outs, there is a distance limitation on running a long component cable to the 2nd HDTV, correct? Doesn't seem pratical.


Don't know if it is going to happen in the next year, but I've been reading that UWB wireless HD transmission technology may become a reality. It would be great if it works and could be incorporated into our home HDTV systems.

Pie in the sky, by and by. I'll have a slice, thanks!


----------



## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

James Long said:


> If I were a board designer I'd connect the feeds going to HDMI to the inputs of the processor that creates the component outputs. It DOES look like (from the similar ViP-211) that the AV autput (composite and RF modulated) is a separate feed (on the 211 one can change the aspect ratio on HD separate from SD). It seems like a lot of work to generate a HDMI signal and a Composite signal in software when they are both designed to give the same output.


Only reason I even thought to speculate is the way some things have been worded... and knowing from some companies I worked at that did board design, they weren't always doing the smartest or most efficient things. Sometimes efficiency happened because of cost-cuts or heat issues... but when left to their own devices, often designs (if examined closely) would see duplication of functionality.

Since I've opened the monster can anyway... how about another bit of speculation.

There are computers (typically servers in business environments) that are designed with remote-management software... and some recent designs have allowed for the remote management computer to actually get a video feed through Ethernet as part of the management signals.

I don't know what resolutions have been tested reliably... but there is at least a glimmer, especially if we have 100 Mbit Ethernet ports (don't know since they aren't operational) to envision one possible future use of an Ethernet port could be as part of a video distribution system for your house.

Think how many of us are loving the 3/6 Mbit DSL or cable modems we have... and realize if your home computer is using 100 Mbit Ethernet, you are not even close to using the full capacity of Ethernet for your internet.

Don't know about the processing power in these new ViP series receivers... but it is not outside the realm of possibility that they could support video/audio over Ethernet... and then sell you an adapter to put with your other TVs that has Component or HDMI output.

I doubt you could do it with wireless unless that technology jumps a bit from the last time I paid attention... but I bet you could think about it with regular Ethernet, and some folks have Ethernet wired into their homes these days.

Be an interesting thought and possible add-on... The future for Dish could be sell you one ViP622, then sell you mini-hubs for your other TVs and plug everything into a home network!

After I posted... I am editing... I completely forgot to address that since USB 2.0 ports are onboard, those are rated at 480 Mbit... so that would be the way to go for the above scenario of doing video networking, rather than Ethernet... only snag would be I don't think anyone has homes wired in the walls for USB distribution like some have for Ethernet.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

If they do something over Ethernet I suspect that it will be:
1) ViP units talking to each other "live" within a home - ie: Your 211 playing content off of your 622
2) Download of Video on Demand content from E*'s servers (if high speed Internet is present)

In any case I expect that whatever use is developed will be very secure with no way (or at least no easy way) of taking content from the box to an uncontrolled unit.


----------



## GravelChan (Jan 30, 2005)

In my dreams last night I saw a 644 - 4 tuners, 4 hd/sd outputs over Ethernet. 

In any case I predict 10 years from now both D* and E* will have a one receiver whole house solution. One receiver with multiple tuners fed to multiple receivers via ??? (who knows).


----------



## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

James Long said:


> If they do something over Ethernet I suspect that it will be:
> 1) ViP units talking to each other "live" within a home - ie: Your 211 playing content off of your 622
> 2) Download of Video on Demand content from E*'s servers (if high speed Internet is present)
> 
> In any case I expect that whatever use is developed will be very secure with no way (or at least no easy way) of taking content from the box to an uncontrolled unit.


I agree that it will, and should, be a secure/encrypted communications and likely not compatible with anything else but their own equipment... but it'd also be another piece of equipment they could sell to you to connect at the other end of the network.

I wonder if anyone at Dish is pursuing this same line of thinking... could be a way towards that one receiver for every home deal as another poster just said... they could add more tuners to the box and a network distribution thingie and poof!


----------



## DvrJunkie (Feb 18, 2006)

Has anyone tried using their surround receiver to upconvert a composite signal to a component? I know most new surround receivers now upconvert from composite to component (mine does,i just hav'nt had the need so far).This might help or be an acceptable solution if the quality is good enough for the tv2 application to an hd tv.If someone has tried it,how is the picture quality compared to straight hd?


----------

