# Ridiculous Things Installers Have Told Customers



## Dr_J (Apr 15, 2007)

If a storm is approaching, switch to transponder #4, which tends to get better signals in bad weather. The box automatically resets to transponder #1 at shutdown, but don't leave it on transponder #4 for a long time because it puts a strain on the LNB, leading to early failure.


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## AnonomissX (Jun 29, 2006)

"Do you have a ladder?"

:lol:


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

:beatdeadhorse:


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

"I'll be there in 15 minutes."


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

You left out the part when you called him later on his cellphone where he told you :



Dr-J said:


> ....He said it's impossible to get maximum strength from all transponders, and that if the #1 transponder were 100, there would be problems with all the other transponders. It had to be set up this way or there would be zig-zagging along the edge of the HD picture. He again reiterated switching to #4 in bad weather, but only temporarily lest the LNB be stressed....


I'll bet he was angling for another free Pepsi and $20 bill...


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## raoul5788 (May 14, 2006)

After setting up my H20, the installer told me it was okay that the 99 sat failed on setup because they are only international channels there anyway! I tried to explain to him that he meant 95, but he wouldn't believe me. What a maroon!


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

"What do you what OTA for?"


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

Do we really want to go down this road? Again?

Or maybe the installers that visit this board should start a thread "Ridiculous Things Customers Have Done & Asked"

No good can come of this thread.


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## Kevin Dupuy (Nov 29, 2006)

"The R15 is a far superior product to this TiVo" -Jan. 2006


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## John W (Dec 20, 2005)

RobertE said:


> Do we really want to go down this road? Again?
> 
> Or maybe the installers that visit this board should start a thread "Ridiculous Things Customers Have Done & Asked"
> 
> No good can come of this thread.


No, we wouldn't want to offend anyone's sensibilities in this namby pamby age.


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## kevinwmsn (Aug 19, 2006)

Mine told me that OTA was illegal and the government will shut them all down in 09 including shutting down the HD OTA signals


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Not really ridiculous, but a DirecTV installer once told me that I should get a job as an installer, because I know more than most of the people he works with!


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## purtman (Sep 19, 2006)

This isn't about installers, but another ridiculous answer by someone. We moved to Kansas City nearly three years ago from New England. During the first snowfall here (only about six inches), I noticed that the plows only used salt. They didn't use any sand. I told my wife we were going to see a lot of ice if that's the way they did. Sure as heck, we had a 10-inch snowstorm. Since we lived at the end of a cul de sac, the plows would come down our street, lift their blade before hitting the circle, and then put it down after leaving the circle. I called the city, they sent somebody back out, I saw all of the salt he put down. I asked him why they used all salt and not sand. He told me that the reason they couldn't use sand in Kansas City because it was round and went right off the road. He said that in New England and the northern states the sand that they used was square so it didn't roll off the road. 
And all this time I thought that my feet hurt at the beach because the sand was hot. I didn't realize it was because of the corners on the sand. :lol


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## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

Awhile ago (A few years) I ordered an additional receiver, and Directv refused to just send it to me, HAD to have in "Professionally" installed. This was back when I only had 2 DirecTivos, so I knew I'd need a multiswitch. Installer showed up, didn't have a clue. Tried to tell me that you could only have 4 tuners at max coming off a dish. He wanted to put up another dish. I told him "We'll just install a multiswitch" and he looked at me funny. Didn't have a clue what I was talking about. Had to call Directv and get a CSR to explain to him what a multiswitch was. Then he had to call his Supervisor, who didn't believe a word of it, so I had to have him call Directv himself. Eventually the Supervisor showed up with a switch, and I had to teach them what it was, and how to install it lol Even after it was installed, they kept trying to tell me "It's not going to work. Each tuner needs a direct line from the dish." They were SHOCKED when I had all 6 tuners going lol
Wasn't the last time I had to install something myself with the "Installer" right there. Granted, at this point, I do have a fairly complex setup. I'm half tempted to call and get an installer out here so I can REALLY freak him out with my SWM lol


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

When the installer came back a week after our install to check out the DirecTiVos, they blamed the loss of color bug on interference from the Dish Network dish still on the roof. Removed the Dish, replaced the DirecTiVos. Still experiencing the loss of color they came back the following week and blamed it on the XM Delphi SkyFi. It wasn’t until a few days later until I discovered the massive thread on the TiVo Community Forums on this known issue.


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

I agree, in fact I may just start a "Ridiculous Things Customers have said" thread. IMO, customers are worse liars than the installers...and no I'm not an installer, I just think people should be drawn and quartered for their behavior when trying to get free stuff.


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## quadmandan97 (Feb 8, 2007)

When I had my HR-20 installed in Feb, my installer told me that the Sats are in the air and sitting there waiting for channels to start broadcasting in HD.


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

K4SMX said:


> Thanks, Dr_J, for getting a number of explosive, outright laughs out of me. Your erudite recapitulations of your travails over the last few weeks have been a pleasure to read, even if it was, as you say, a "terrible...Catch22," from your p.o.v. Some of the things you were told by your first installer would have been good material for a DBSTalk Saturday Night Live skit. I can almost picture Belushi delivering those lines your installer was giving you. Please start a thread, "Ridiculous Things Installers Have Told Customers," and cut and paste your posts into it as Post #1. I'm sure it would be most popular!





Dr_J said:


> Interesting. Worth a try!


Not a bad beginning, Dr_J, despite a few detractors. (The idea was humor and not in any way to criticize particular individuals/sub-contractors. Lighten up, guys.) For any of you who missed this hilarious Catch 22 tale of woe, you can read the long-form here.


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## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

I know there are some installers that post here, and it's true, not ALL installers are incompetent idiots. Especially the ones who do post here, I'm sure they usually know what they're doing, and if they don't, they know how to find out


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

I haven't come across any incompetent installers posting on here, but there have been some incompetent CSRs.


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## twistedT (Jan 11, 2007)

I like the one the last installer told me. He came and put in my new 5 LNB dish. We

were in the livingroom checking the signal strength on the 99 and 103 sats. I said

how do the readings look? He looks at me and says: " I don't know why they are 

showing any readings at all, there isn't even any sats in the 99 or 103 positions"

WTF!!! LOL


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

purtman said:


> He told me that the reason they couldn't use sand in Kansas City because it was round and went right off the road. He said that in New England and the northern states the sand that they used was square so it didn't roll off the road.


Actually, this is true! Some areas use a deicer while others use finely crushed rock (chips). Volcanic cinder works very well too. Sand is best used in sand bags.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Sometime back with my Sony HD & new to D*, I had a shopping channel that I would remove from my custom guide only to have it [and some others] always come back.
Called D* several times. One guy told me that it wasn't a D* channel & that I must be getting it from E* [with my D* receiver?].
AHH the brain trust that D* hires.
Of course for those that don't remember: these were the shopping channels that weren't broadcast 24 hours, so every time they would start up again, the receiver [per D* instructions] would "see it" as a new channel and as such would show it even in the favorites [custom?] guide.
Granted "most" users can be idiots, but add to this the poorly trained CSRs, and some very poor installers and what do you have?
Idiots asking morons about incompetent workers. The trifecta of today's technology.


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## AnonomissX (Jun 29, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> Sometime back with my Sony HD & new to D*, I had a shopping channel that I would remove from my custom guide only to have it [and some others] always come back.
> Called D* several times. One guy told me that it wasn't a D* channel & that I must be getting it from E* [with my D* receiver?].
> AHH the brain trust that D* hires.
> Of course for those that don't remember: these were the shopping channels that weren't broadcast 24 hours, so every time they would start up again, the receiver [per D* instructions] would "see it" as a new channel and as such would show it even in the favorites [custom?] guide.
> ...


Heh.
:hurah: :hurah: :hurah:


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

RobertE said:


> Do we really want to go down this road? Again?
> 
> Or maybe the installers that visit this board should start a thread "Ridiculous Things Customers Have Done & Asked"
> 
> No good can come of this thread.


I'm sorry you're insulted about the topic of this thread, but would you not agree that some of the things people are attributing to their installers are in fact ridiculous? You may be 1000% better than the installers being quoted here, but that doesn't mean those installers didn't say something stupid or ridiculous.

As far as ridiculous things customers have done and asked, well, what's your job if not to know more than the customer and potentially educate them? The installers are *supposed* to know more than the customers, but as evidenced by this thread, that's not always the case.


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## purtman (Sep 19, 2006)

harsh said:


> Actually, this is true! Some areas use a deicer while others use finely crushed rock (chips). Volcanic cinder works very well too. Sand is best used in sand bags.


 Yeah, but there's no such thing as "square" sand.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

Drew2k said:


> I'm sorry you're insulted about the topic of this thread, but would you not agree that some of the things people are attributing to their installers are in fact ridiculous? You may be 1000% better than the installers being quoted here, but that doesn't mean those installers didn't say something stupid or ridiculous.
> 
> As far as ridiculous things customers have done and asked, well, what's your job if not to know more than the customer and potentially educate them? The installers are *supposed* to know more than the customers, but as evidenced by this thread, that's not always the case.


Yes, some of the things installers say and/or do are in fact ridiculous. That is a symptom of poor training do to D* & the HSPs not wanting to pay a decent wage for installers. If the customer stopped INSISTING on freebies every step of the way, maybe, just maybe the decent installers would get paid what they are worth and would stop leaving in droves.

Here is just a short list of some STUPID things customers have done.

Service call: Box won't turn on. Spend about 30 troubleshooting. Fix - Plug box into the the wall outlet. Yes, thats right, these things take power to work.

Service call: Not getting signal on box in master bedroom. Customer irate as she was out of service all weekend and that the "only" time frame available was 0600-0800. After getting her to calm down and let me look at the way things are set up here's what I find. Line runs along the interior wall of the master bedroom through an interior wall to the next bedroom. Ask the customer to look at that room. Again she's mad because her adult son is sleeping. She finally relents. Go to the part of the wall where the cable comes from her room. It's disconnected. Look the exterior wall where the cable comes in from outside. Follow the line to her sons tv. Fix - disconnect her sons tv (no D box), re-barrel to her room. All is good. She is then all apologetic for being an a$$. Begs me not to charge her the $70 service call charge. Not my call, sorry.

Service call: Snow on screen. Customer is a Med student. Have her show me what is going on. Fix, changed TV to channel 4.

I can go on and on.

Fact is there are a lot of STUPID people in this world. Some are installers, most are end users. The average user on this board is leaps and bounds ahead of what the average end user is out in the real world. If anyone here thinks for one second that everyone here is a realistic sample of the user base, then they need to be put in a rubber room as they are crazy.

I again reiterate that this thread serves no purpose other than flame bait.

It should be closed or moved to Off Topic.


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

RobertE said:


> Yes, some of the things installers say and/or do are in fact ridiculous. That is a symptom of poor training do to D* & the HSPs not wanting to pay a decent wage for installers.


 I'm in perfect agreement with you on this.



> If the customer stopped INSISTING on freebies every step of the way, maybe, just maybe the decent installers would get paid what they are worth and would stop leaving in droves.


But I have no clue how customers asking for freebies impacts the pay or longevity for installers. In fact, customers asking for and getting freebies just means there's more of a need for installers, so ... aren't those customers keeping the installers in business?


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

Drew2k said:


> I'm in perfect agreement with you on this.
> 
> But I have no clue how customers asking for freebies impacts the pay or longevity for installers. In fact, customers asking for and getting freebies just means there's more of a need for installers, so ... aren't those customers keeping the installers in business?


Keeping the installers busy yes. But who is paying for the time and equipment? Someone has to eat that cost, be it D* or the HSPs. So in turn there is less money in the pot to pay the installers.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

RobertE said:


> Keeping the installers busy yes. But who is paying for the time and equipment? Someone has to eat that cost, be it D* or the HSPs. So in turn there is less money in the pot to pay the installers.


Robert, I do really understand your point of view, but the idea of D* giving out "freebies" as the cause of installers not being paid a good wage & trained adequately, seems misguided. The responsibility for this falls squarely on the shoulders of D* management. If they were to stop every "freebie" right now, the only thing that would happen is the management would get bigger bonuses for showing a better "bottom-line".
It's the sad state of corporate management today that "the worker" is not part of "the team". The "worker bees" have become just another replaceable commodity, to be "gotten for" at the lowest price available. There was a time that management knew the value of a good worker, but this has been replaced with "golden parachutes" for the executives that may or may not be an asset to the company.

The customer isn't much more that an idiot with a wallet. 
$70 for a 30 min service call should be a good wage.
Paying an installer enough to do a good job also should happen.
Training CSRs adequately to do their job is another thing that should happen.
"Freebies" are passed out because management has decided to "play the numbers" and feel this is cheaper than the cost to "do it right".

So let's go back to some comic relief and know that those that "know their job & do it well", are not part of the humor.


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## bcrab (Mar 7, 2007)

Ummm, you wouldn't happen to have a compression crimper would you????
Ohhh and a ladder.


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## captain_video (Nov 22, 2005)

I'm pretty sure the tech that comes to your house isn't seeing all of the $70 for the service call. I believe the service techs that respond to service calls are actually DTV employees and not contract installers. That $70 has to pay his wages along with any benefits he receives as well as the truck he drives, the gas that goes in it, insurance on the truck, etc.

I think this thread should be named "DirecTV's Funniest Service Calls" since there are dummies on both sides of the same coin. I'd like to believe the DTV techs are better trained than most of the installers they hire. CSRs are another issue altogether. It's quite obvious many of them were absent the day they went over many of the important topics so they're just making it up as they go along.

We could also start a new thread discussing bonehead BB and CC employees. I've got more than a few gems I could share with you there.

On the topic of DTV installers I had one that just manhandled my new HR10-250 during the install. The first thing he did after removing it from the box was plug in the power cord, after which he started tossing the box around to make it easier to attach the remaining cables. When I asked him to stop he looked at me funny and said it wouldn't hurt the box. I guess it never occurred to him that juggling a hard drive spinning at 7200rpm could possible cause it any harm. My HDTivo died exactly 93 days later, just three days beyond the point where DTV would have sent me a new box instead of a refurb as a replacement. Fortunately, the refurb worked great so it all worked out in the end.

I stopped ordering any equipment directly from DTV because they always required "professional" installation with anything you buy from them. I've purchased two DVRs from them and did all of the installation myself in both cases. All the tech had to do was connect the cables and call DTV to activate it. The one guy couldn't even do that right.:sure:


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## since 2/96 (Feb 7, 2007)

what VOS said...

i'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that the uneducated consumers/installers are not frequenting dbstalk...

and as another above chimed in...the day after memorial day, the installer that put up my slimline and brought my HR20 to me told me without any doubt the satellites are already in place for the new HD channels. I simply let him believe what he wanted, gave him $20 for his quick work and he was on to his next job.


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## Kentstater (Jun 18, 2004)

The HR20 will record 300 hours SD and 3 hours HD.


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## boke (Jan 23, 2007)

captain_video said:


> I stopped ordering any equipment directly from DTV because they always required "professional" installation with anything you buy from them.


Funny, I have read that professional installation is required by many people.
But I have always had the option show up on the DirecTV site to do a self install.

I just checked, it is still there.



> Please select one of the following options:
> #1: Please include the standard professional installation with my order at no additional charge.
> #2: I can install the receiver myself and would like it shipped to me.


Maybe its because I have never had DirecTV to my home for a service or installation call of any kind. I did everything myself from the start.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

$70 for a 30 min service call *should be* a good wage.
Yes, I know about "overhead".
I've had a couple [few] good techs come out. They are out there. There should be more of them.
I've had nice CSRs, but [again] D* limits what they can do. 
I've spent hours over a 724 error that took one CSR [out of the ten I'd talked to] to have their supervisor use his "password" an fix it in about a minute.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> $70 for a 30 min service call *should be* a good wage.
> Yes, I know about "overhead".
> I've had a couple [few] good techs come out. They are out there. There should be more of them.
> I've had nice CSRs, but [again] D* limits what they can do.
> I've spent hours over a 724 error that took one CSR [out of the ten I'd talked to] to have their supervisor use his "password" an fix it in about a minute.


Of that $70, want to take a guess at how much I see? $15. Doesn't matter if I'm there 5 minutes or 5 hours.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> So let's go back to some comic relief and know that those that "know their job & do it well", are not part of the humor.


I know I'm taking it too personally here, but when someone takes shots at my current profession, how can I not take it personally and be offended?

What if the shoe was on the other foot?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

RobertE said:


> Of that $70, want to take a guess at how much I see? $15. Doesn't matter if I'm there 5 minutes or 5 hours.


Which is why, with my knowledge & experience, I'm not an installer.
Workers can't stay in a job without a "fair wage".
My local TV repairman charges $75 & the last time spent an hour or more.
Sears charges $105 for a service call [and it's a hour drive to my place].

Back to the topic.....some humor


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

captain_video said:


> I believe the service techs that respond to service calls are actually DTV employees and not contract installers.


They're not DirecTV employees, they're employed by installation companies that DirecTV contracts with.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

RobertE said:


> I know I'm taking it too personally here, but when someone takes shots at my current profession, how can I not take it personally and be offended?
> 
> What if the shoe was on the other foot?


I'd hope to know that my hard work & dedication to my profession, would let me rise above the horror stories of unqualified others.
BTW: for me it has been on the "other foot". Here in Ca, there are more laws about how car repairs can be done [charged] than any other profession. I get "estimates" from doctors that I wish would be controlled as closely as a car repair. I spent may years doing a very good job with "john Q" figuring I was a bandit by trade.
Like my avatar: life isn't fair.


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## Tim Petlock (May 26, 2007)

AFTER I got the installer in the door - he was going to leave with my HR20-700 because I didn't have a 5 satellite dish. DirecTV had agreed to install one with the HR20-700 but Ironwood didn't get the memo. :nono2: 

After he made it clear he was doing me a favor installing the HR20-700 without the 5 satellite dish he had some gems of advice:

"Throw away that HDMI cable that's in the box, your HD picture will be snowy with that one. Get a good one from Best Buy."

On the subject of b-band converters:
"I don't know what these are for, I usually just throw them away."

On the subject of OTA local channels:
Installer: "Oh, thats a separate subscription, its why you don't get them."
Me: "Are you sure there's not a software upgrade?"
Installer: "I'm pretty sure there isn't any but leave the phone line connected."

On the subject of SD local channels that I pay for but wasn't receiving:
Installer: "If you subscribe to them you should get them, you must not receive them."

And off he went back out into whatever world he lived in where the sky ain't blue. I called DirecTV and got my subscription re-authorized and they advised me to reset the receiver to get the software download. Local channels appeared, both via satellite and OTA. I connected the b-band converters myself. My TV doesn't have HDMI so no need to try or buy a cable - but I really doubt one would get a snowy picture through a digital connection :sure: .

There was one more empty-handed service call supposedly for the antenna (waste of time) and then the 5 satellite antenna was finally installed.

It's been fun being part of the (nearly) weekly software downloads publicized through this forum. 

I realize the average customer the installers are dealing with 95% of the time have NO CLUE about anything TV related but that's not representative of the people in this forum. Also, the installers that I had for my HR15 when I first started service and the one who finally installed my 5-sat antenna were reallly sharp guys. I also understand that the employees of the contract installer companies get paid per install and have days where they might do better pay-wise working at wal-mart.

But every profession has its share of ducktards. (First consonant of last word may be shifted slightly)


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## HarleyD (Aug 31, 2006)

RobertE said:


> Of that $70, want to take a guess at how much I see? $15. Doesn't matter if I'm there 5 minutes or 5 hours.


And the *customer* is the one that isn't smart?? Dude, you need to find a new job. It's made you defensive and testy and if that's how much you make you can find something else that will pay as well or better without too much difficulty.



RobertE said:


> I know I'm taking it too personally here, but when someone takes shots at my current profession, how can I not take it personally and be offended?
> 
> What if the shoe was on the other foot?.


Meet the other foot. There's plenty of incompetents in my field, Information Technology. Specifically I'm presently a DBA with a Fortune 300 company. You want to take shots at the dummies? Go right ahead. I'm well-adjusted enough to know I'm not one of them and I actually resent the dolts in my field that make IT professionals look bad as a group. I'm surprised you are standing up for those installers who are unequivocal idiots. They're the ones dragging you down. Not us.

You're skin is too thin. How do you manage to survive football season in Browns town with such a sensitive demeanor.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

HarleyD said:


> Dude, you need to find a new job.


Would love to, but the job market here just sucks. While the pay is bad, its currently better than the alternatives.



HarleyD said:


> You want to take shots at the dummies?


Didn't fire the first shot. Just returning fire.



HarleyD said:


> I'm surprised you are standing up for those installers who are unequivocal idiots. They're the ones dragging you down. Not us.


I'm standing up for myself and those that work our butts off to do a good job for YOU. For the unequivocal idiot coworkers, well, they know how I feel. I don't pull any punches in our meetings about the quality of their work. I don't think I'm on too many of their X-mas cards list though. 



HarleyD said:


> You're skin is too thin. How do you manage to survive football season in Browns town with such a sensitive demeanor.


Easy. Not a Browns fan.


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## rtstephn (Feb 11, 2006)

Recently moved, so had D* come out and install another 5 LNB dish for me. When he saw the house (it's two story), he said, 
"You really DON"T want me to install this dish on your roof. It will really detract from the value of your house. You will not be able to sell your house with this dish on top of it.... Trust me, I am doing you a favor...."!
I am still laughing as I watch my HD! 

(For what it's worth, I sold my home last month....with a dish on that roof...)


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## dinotheo (Sep 22, 2006)

OK..The following happened with a tech support specialist. 

I was trying to get a receiver added to my account. Tech support guy on the phone couldn't get one of my receivers to work. He then proclaims that my card is damaged and that I would have to pay $20 for a new one. I asked how he could possibly tell that my card was damaged. He proceeded to tell me that my receiver sends a signal up to my dish which transmits this data up to DTV's satellites, and that's how he knows. I was dumbfounded. I tried to explain nicely that the dish on my roof doesn't transmit anything but he wouldn't believe me.


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## tkaso (Jun 25, 2007)

"Your new HR20 isn't compatible with an HD off air antenna."


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

RobertE said:


> Yes, some of the things installers say and/or do are in fact ridiculous. That is a symptom of poor training do to D* & the HSPs not wanting to pay a decent wage for installers. If the customer stopped INSISTING on freebies every step of the way, maybe, just maybe the decent installers would get paid what they are worth and would stop leaving in droves.


The thing is DirecTV is as much to blame about the freebies. Once I called because there was an ad that there was going to be a free weekend of HBO the weekend that the final series of Sopranos started. I called to see if D* was part of it or not. That's all I wanted to know, to see when I should start my subscription. The rep told me no, but said that they'd give us a $10 credit for 6 months off HBO. What was I going to do, decline?

My installer told me that all D* equipment was junk, but then I asked him what the Season pass was called, and what he told me it was they renamed 6 months before. He also swore that I couldn't have a -100 because it was silver. Nothing like a D* installer telling you all the equipment is junk. It's like when I went into a Sprint store and the salesman told me he used Verizon....


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## mx6bfast (Nov 8, 2006)

I had a good installer come out and install my slimline pretty quickly last week who knew his stuff.

However ones that came to my parents house were less than knowledgable. In my old room they were putting in a Tivo. Somehow an access card wasn't with the box. Ok so trip 2 with a new D* DVR, the tech agrees with the D* CSR that the access card is bad. So I ask why can't he plug the access card into the other box that didn't have one? The answer was because they weren't transferrable. I told my parents this was untrue. Ok so a 3rd trip out a couple of days later with a new D* DVR they still can't get a signal from the sats. 

I was telling them the entire time to make sure that the wall cable they are plugging into the DVR is plugged into their multiswitch. If not plug an extra cable into the multiswitch and test that. Now this multiswitch is no more than 10 feet from the DVR thru 2 doors. After the 3rd time I come over to their house and plug an extra cable from the multiswitch to the DVR and it starts working.

The technician called them to schedule another apointment the next day and I talk to him. I asked him if he checked the cable to make sure it was plugged into the multiswitch. He said he followed it and it was plugged in. Of course I don't know how he did since it went into the wall and out where the others were. Long story short, he was in disbelief when I told him access cards can work in other boxes and it was not a problem with the card, the cable wasn't plugged in the entire time.


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## Teronzhul (Sep 21, 2006)

I wanted to join RobertE and stand up to say we aren't all incompetent morons, but the vast majority of HSP supplied technicians are. I am now a subcontractor, but visited this site with regularity even as an HSP tech. I assure you that information flows on this site months before it reaches as an HSP tech. I am certain that 99.9% of them have no idea that an SWM is even in development, much less limited deployment.

I'm sorry that it is so, but my initial training program for the HSP that worked for originally was a mere 4 days. The complete test for SBCA certification was shown to us word for word in a study session for 1/2 hour prior to taking the test and I fear some still did not pass. 

Not only is the moneypool smaller due to customers wanting freebees, but once we arrive on premises customers still demand that the install be free. It is incredibly frustrating to explain to customer after customer that I don't do wall fishes for free, or trench 100 feet across their yard.

Like RobertE I live in an area with a rather poor job market, and the average wage is likely sub $10/hourly. This job at least beats the average. It isn't something I'm going to do forever, and have already made long term plans to begin another job when possible.

There are indeed just as many customers that are staggeringly idiotic as the installers you're speaking of. I once had to troubleshoot a receiver that was not displaying caller id information. 30 minutes later I sheepishly check the customers phone and notice no info there either. Of course the customer had no caller id on his landline service. Outstanding.


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## Ext 721 (Feb 26, 2007)

purtman said:


> Yeah, but there's no such thing as "square" sand.


Square faceted cubes. Some minerals, when broken, form sharp-edged facets. these work to aid traction.

Some form round pebbles, these work like ball bearings.

Not everyone routinlely throws around the terms "cuboidal" or "cubic" or even "cube" so the dude used the word square.


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

Ext 721 said:


> Not everyone routinlely throws around the terms "cuboidal" or "cubic" or even "cube" so the dude used the word square.


What an L7 that dude is ...


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

RobertE said:


> Yes, some of the things installers say and/or do are in fact ridiculous. That is a symptom of poor training do to D* & the HSPs not wanting to pay a decent wage for installers. If the customer stopped INSISTING on freebies every step of the way, maybe, just maybe the decent installers would get paid what they are worth and would stop leaving in droves.
> 
> Here is just a short list of some STUPID things customers have done.
> 
> ...


So, a lot of the people that pay D an average of $75 a month are stupid?


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## Ext 721 (Feb 26, 2007)

Drew2k said:


> I'm in perfect agreement with you on this.
> 
> But I have no clue how customers asking for freebies impacts the pay or longevity for installers. In fact, customers asking for and getting freebies just means there's more of a need for installers, so ... aren't those customers keeping the installers in business?


For the amount of sheer hassle, it's a low paying job. People running RG in new construction have an easier, less stressful, better paying, lower responsibility job.

hence several former installers who post here, myself included.

If it paid one and a half what it does, I'd do it again.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

Ken S said:


> So, a lot of the people that pay D an average of $75 a month are stupid?


Yes.


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

RobertE, if that's what you truly believe, than I can't see why you object to some people here sharing comments about installers that say ridiculous things. If you can have stupid customers, it's only fair that customers can have stupid installers, and neither the customers nor the installers should be shocked that people feel this way about them.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Part of post 23's "The trifecta".


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## TigersFanJJ (Feb 17, 2006)

Drew2k said:


> RobertE, if that's what you truly believe, than I can't see why you object to some people here sharing comments about installers that say ridiculous things. If you can have stupid customers, it's only fair that customers can have stupid installers, and neither the customers nor the installers should be shocked that people feel this way about them.


I don't recall reading thread upon thread here about how D* customers are morons. Believe me, I have a ton of stories from my years in this field that I could share that would make it seem that way. However, I choose not to group all customers together because of a select few.

Let's say I were to frequent a board where HarleyD (sorry, not picking on you HD) and others try to provide IT assistance to myself and others. If were to post something along the lines of "most IT guys are morons" or "ridiculous things IT guys have told customers," I would expect HarleyD and all of the IT guys on that site to get a little irritated. Even if I wasn't referring to those guys.

I love coming to this site to help others and there are a lot of good ppl here who do the same. However, it does get on my nerves from time to time (not today though, I'm good) when I read, "installers are morons, installers are morons." :grin:

Just my $.02


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## TigersFanJJ (Feb 17, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> Idiots asking morons about incompetent workers.


:lol:

+1


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

Drew2k said:


> RobertE, if that's what you truly believe, than I can't see why you object to some people here sharing comments about installers that say ridiculous things. If you can have stupid customers, it's only fair that customers can have stupid installers, and neither the customers nor the installers should be shocked that people feel this way about them.


So by your reasoning then, it should be 100% a-ok for me and other installers to come on here and post thread after thread about stupid customers and the things they have done? It is a two way street after all.

Bottom line is, threads like these server absoultley no purpose other than flame bait. Some have claimed it was in "humor". Humor is not funny when it is taken at a groups expense. What if we were to replace "installer" with (pick any ethnic or racial group)? Would that still be ok?

Thanks for proving my stance.

I again ask that this thread be closed or moved to off topic.


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## captain_video (Nov 22, 2005)

> Quote:
> Please select one of the following options:
> #1: Please include the standard professional installation with my order at no additional charge.
> #2: I can install the receiver myself and would like it shipped to me.


The option to install it yourself is something relatively new. I bought two DVRs about 2 years ago and they absolutely required you to have professional installation, even though I explained that everything was already setup and that the DVR just needed to be plugged in and activated. I've installed and aligned all my own dishes and wired my entire house twice for satellite and once for cable. I initially installed RG59 for my cable hookup and then ran RG-6 to all rooms when I got DirecTV. I later replaced the existing RG-6 with solid-core copper coax in the anticipation of installing the AT9 dish. I bought the dish and sat meter to do the install but Verizon got FIOS going in my area so I never got around to installing the dish.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by captain_video
> I believe the service techs that respond to service calls are actually DTV employees and not contract installers.
> 
> They're not DirecTV employees, they're employed by installation companies that DirecTV contracts with.


That's definitely true with regards to installers but I was referring to the service techs they send out to troubleshoot your installation. Those guys definitely have to be better trained than the installers as a rule. They also use vans with the DirecTV logo on them Many installers just use their own trucks and vans with no logos on the side.

I'd also have to agree that, while the vast majority of DTV subscribers may not be "stupid, they are uneducated on the technical knowledge with regards to DirecTV. Then again, there are some of them that are just plain stupid. I don't think the jabs are aimed at anyone here, however. Anyone that frequents forums such as this obviously thirst for knowledge on the subject and are therefore generally more educated on the topic than your average consumer. The same goes for installers such as RobertE. I, for one, welcome him here and only wished that more installers would frequent such forums and become more enlightened on the topic. Let's not bash the good ones since they seem to be few and far between.


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## mx6bfast (Nov 8, 2006)

Ken S said:


> So, a lot of the people that pay D an average of $75 a month are stupid?





RobertE said:


> Yes.


Well now I don't feel so bad posting that story. :lol:


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

RobertE said:


> So by your reasoning then, it should be 100% a-ok for me and other installers to come on here and post thread after thread about stupid customers and the things they have done? It is a two way street after all.


Absolutely. If that's what you want to do, then go for it: "Customers say the darndest things." Have a ball with it.

But that wasn't my point. My point is that if you as an installer acknowledge that you have less than stellar customers, you must also acknowledge (which you actually already have) that there are less than stellar installers. It therefore is no shock to you that they exist. So why is this thread a shock to you?



> Bottom line is, threads like these server absoultley no purpose other than flame bait. Some have claimed it was in "humor". Humor is not funny when it is taken at a groups expense. What if we were to replace "installer" with (pick any ethnic or racial group)? Would that still be ok?


 If you're worried about reputation as a group, just look in the HR20 ordering installation forum for all the positive & glowing comments about their installers. (I, in fact, posted a glowing review of my installer there.)

Yours is not not the first profession to be lampooned, and yours won't be the last.



> Thanks for proving my stance.


I'm not sure what's been proven here, but ... ok.


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## HarleyD (Aug 31, 2006)

TigersFanJJ said:


> ...Let's say I were to frequent a board where HarleyD (sorry, not picking on you HD) and others try to provide IT assistance to myself and others. If were to post something along the lines of "most IT guys are morons" or "ridiculous things IT guys have told customers," I would expect HarleyD and all of the IT guys on that site to get a little irritated. Even if I wasn't referring to those guys....


Well, with all due respect you'd be mistaken. As I said before, I know I'm good at what I do. I have no reason to take offense at someone pointing out others who are not good and not professional.

There's a lot of losers and idiots in IT and I strongly support exposing them, ridiculing them, and driving them out of IT and into another line of work...one that perhaps involves a paper hat and a cash register with little tiny pictures of food on the keys.

If we deny the problem exists (and this is true of ANY problem), I can pretty much promise you it won't get any better.


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## HarleyD (Aug 31, 2006)

Hey RobertE.

For the record I support you and the other installers who do their job well. I also admit that you never hear about the good ones, only the bad ones because quite frankly those stories are more entertaining.

I also don't think sweeping the horror stories of bad installers under the rug does you good guys any favors. They need to be exposed...and purged.

And, I would absolutely love to read your stories about idiot customers...really.
*
I strongly encourage you to create the thread that you "threatened' to create about stupid things customers have said. I wouldn't be offended and I don't think anyone else would be either.*

Although I have to admit, my sympathy for you dropped a notch when you said you're not a Browns fan. 

I'm a huge Browns fan. I lived in NE Ohio the first 40 years of my life. I was born and raised in Youngstown and then lived in the greater Cleveland area for 20 years before moving to Central Florida in 2000.

So for what it's worth, I for one realize that there are good installers and techs out there. They may well be the majority in fact. I had a good one from Mastec do my AU9/HR20 install last March. I would never imply that ALL installers are incompetent.

I just also know that there are not so good installers and techs that will literally say anything that suits their circumstance and I don't think keeping quiet about it helps anyone...least of all the good installers.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

If all of us can't laugh at ourselves, we must have no humor at all.
Laughing at a person isn't nice, laughing at a group in general is another story.

The line starts here, to call me a moron & an idiot. 
There are times I call myself one.


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## mikhu (Oct 10, 2006)

RobertE said:


> So by your reasoning then, it should be 100% a-ok for me and other installers to come on here and post thread after thread about stupid customers and the things they have done? It is a two way street after all.


Personally? I'd LOVE to hear stories about all the stupid stuff customers do!


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## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

TigersFanJJ said:


> If were to post something along the lines of "most IT guys are morons" or "ridiculous things IT guys have told customers,"


There is a big difference between saying "Some installers have said ridiculous things" and saying "Most installers are morons".

I'm not a moron, but I have said and done some pretty stupid things. Like the time I called our company help desk about the network being down, and then called them back a few minutes later to tell them I fixed the problem. Turns out that I had previously disconnected the network cable and forgot to plug it back in. It works better plugged in.


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## CobraGuy (Apr 23, 2007)

RobertE said:


> Service call: Box won't turn on. Spend about 30 troubleshooting. Fix - Plug box into the the wall outlet. Yes, thats right, these things take power to work.


Well....it took you 30 minutes to realize the thing wasn't plugged in????


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## shadyridr (Jan 25, 2007)

The installer who came to install my 5LNB dish said he has no clue why they make them install the 5LNB dishes because the satellites arent up yet. Also told me they cant remove 3LNB dish because HR10-250 wouldnt work on the new dish. This was in Feb. He then set up my HR20 with the 3LNB setup because the other LNBs wont get a signal anyway. After he left I tried using the 5LNB setup and got no signal on the 2 new sats. Got another installer to come out 3 weeks later and he was there 2 hours before he finally climbed on the roof to see why they didnt work. The previous installer just put the 5LNB dish up on the roof and didnt connect any of the lines in to it. He connected everything to the 3LNB. If I saw this guy again Id probably punch him in the face for lying to me, being lazy, wasting my time, and basically treating me like dirt.


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## TigersFanJJ (Feb 17, 2006)

captain_video said:


> That's definitely true with regards to installers but I was referring to the service techs they send out to troubleshoot your installation. Those guys definitely have to be better trained than the installers as a rule. They also use vans with the DirecTV logo on them Many installers just use their own trucks and vans with no logos on the side.


It may vary from area to area. Here, however, both hsp techs and subs perform service calls. The service techs really don't get any special training to be a service tech.

Also, the D* logo on the van doesn't make them a D* employee. Every hsp van in this area has D* graphics on them. Some with the giant tornado, and others have graphics promoting Nascar Hotpass.


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## Dr_J (Apr 15, 2007)

K4SMX said:


> Not a bad beginning, Dr_J, despite a few detractors. (The idea was humor and not in any way to criticize particular individuals/sub-contractors. Lighten up, guys.) For any of you who missed this hilarious Catch 22 tale of woe, you can read the long-form here.


I guess!

For the record, I meant no offense to anyone in particular when I started this thread and would love to get a chuckle out of hearing ridiculous things that customers have said.


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## bcrab (Mar 7, 2007)

Bottom line is it to much to expect the installer to know what their doing or talking about? Isnt that what they get paid to do, do the job right the first time.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

RobertE said:


> So by your reasoning then, it should be 100% a-ok for me and other installers to come on here and post thread after thread about stupid customers and the things they have done? It is a two way street after all.


Sure, why not? The stories should be funny?

You are taking this way too seriously. And to compare dumb customers on technology to dumb installers OF technology is a stretch. Sure, we have knowledgeable people here but most customers don't know more than "Turn on TV, watch it." Nor do they have to. Installers are SUPPOSED to know what they are doing. That is what they get paid for.

Your comparison is like saying "well, that dumb guy had to ask questions about his heart surgery!"

But, yes, the dumb customer stories would be funny.

I like stories about dumb things in my profession, both about those who do the same job I do and about the "customers."

And, come on, you have to admit some of these are damned funny.


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## mcbeevee (Sep 18, 2006)

My install issue was more of a D* miscommunication problem. I called a CSR to setup a replacement of my 3-lnb Phase III with a Slimline 5-lnb. When the tech showed up, his work order stated "_Install HR20 HD-DVR and run a second line_"! 

The tech did a great job installing the dish. Made sure the monopoles were correctly installed and all cable runs were neat and tied down.


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

OK, guys! Maybe I should have suggested the word "humorous" instead of "ridiculous," since some feel they are being ridiculed. The idea was for us all to get a laugh now and again, since we spend so much time being so darned _serious_ about all this stuff. I would welcome the moderators changing the thread title to' *"Humorous Things Installers and Customers Have Said,"* so we can all get back to the business of not taking life too seriously. And by all means, if humor is OT, move the thread to the OT. I didn't mean to spark controversy, but whole Hollywood movies have been made about political correctness and how we can no longer risk offending _anyone_, even unintentionally. I think I'll watch an old Amos and Andy VHS now...


K4SMX said:


> Thanks, Dr_J, for getting a number of explosive, outright laughs out of me. Your erudite recapitulations of your travails over the last few weeks have been a pleasure to read, even if it was, as you say, a "terrible...Catch22," from your p.o.v. Some of the things you were told by your first installer would have been good material for a DBSTalk Saturday Night Live skit. I can almost picture Belushi delivering those lines your installer was giving you. Please start a thread, "Ridiculous Things Installers Have Told Customers," and cut and paste your posts into it as Post #1. I'm sure it would be most popular!
> 
> 
> Dr_J said:
> ...


And thanks to those who posted their truly funny stories!


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## Tim Petlock (May 26, 2007)

I for one would love to see a stupid-customer-tricks thread. I do IT for a living so I've seen a lot of really dumb things already, but people's stupidity is boundless so it can't be all of 'em.


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

CobraGuy said:


> RobertE said:
> 
> 
> > Service call: Box won't turn on. Spend about 30 troubleshooting. Fix - Plug box into the the wall outlet. Yes, thats right, these things take power to work.
> ...


Funniest .... post .... of ..... this .... thread!

:hurah:


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

> Well....it took you 30 minutes to realize the thing wasn't plugged in????





Drew2k said:


> Funniest .... post .... of ..... this .... thread!
> 
> :hurah:


I bet most of this was the drive out to the location.

Two things:
1) do look at things with the right perspective.
2) we're not hear to pick on members. 
Clearly that isn't humorous nor nice. 
That falls under "the shoe on the other foot".:nono2: :nono:  :eek2:


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

John W said:


> No, we wouldn't want to offend anyone's sensibilities in this namby pamby age.


Good answer! Manly. Very impressive.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

John W said:


> No, we wouldn't want to offend anyone's sensibilities in this namby pamby age.


$12.50 an hour. For "Professional" installation.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> Clearly that isn't humorous nor nice.


On the contrary, it was very funny. It obviously wasn't mean-spirited, so I see nothing wrong with it.


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> I bet most of this was the drive out to the location.
> 
> Two things:
> 1) do look at things with the right perspective.
> ...


VOS, it was quite funny and ironic when considering the points trying to be made ...

You're also being very generous attributing a drive to the site as "troubleshooting". That's funny, too, in a way, but for entirely separate reasons. Makes me think of four-hour work meetings we occasionally have to brainstorm on ways to improve productivity.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Tim Petlock said:


> I for one would love to see a stupid-customer-tricks thread. I do IT for a living so I've seen a lot of really dumb things already, but people's stupidity is boundless so it can't be all of 'em.


Does "IT" mean you work in an IT division or dept. or are you an installer?


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Tim Petlock said:


> I for one would love to see a stupid-customer-tricks thread. I do IT for a living so I've seen a lot of really dumb things already, but people's stupidity is boundless so it can't be all of 'em.


Most people are not really stupid, but ignorant. Ignorance demands tolerance. Very few people are born with the ability to do a great many tasks. A person who asks for explanations is expressing his ignorance and asking to be allowed to use his intelligence to understand that which he is ignorant of.

An example of stupidity would be a driver travelling in the middle lane of a superhighway talking on a phone and driving 40 MPH with everyone around him/her doing 70. Or an installer telling me you can't use splitters and another telling me my 13 TiVos couldn't possibly work the way I had them wired.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

CobraGuy said:


> Well....it took you 30 minutes to realize the thing wasn't plugged in????


Have to talk to the customer to "find out" what is going on. The other 27.5 minutes was moving all the customers junk that was stacked on and around the box and outlet. Guess I'm a moving guy as well.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

When the shoe is on the other foot, you need to wear many hats.
Some jerks don't understand.
They need to walk a mile in someone's shoes before they start to criticize.
This way they will be a mile away from the person who is barefoot, and will be in a much better position to run. :lol:

BTW: it usually takes 30 min to an hour for a service tech to get to my house, before he can start to work. YMMV


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

It's nice to see that this thread has deteriorated into personal attacks.  

Well done guys, well done.


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

RobertE said:


> Have to talk to the customer to "find out" what is going on. The other 27.5 minutes was moving all the customers junk that was stacked on and around the box and outlet. Guess I'm a moving guy as well.


Now that _is_ funny! That was the son's room on the other side of the wall, if I remember the OP. You can get a real visual image of _that_.... Thank you!


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

K4SMX said:


> Now that _is_ funny! That was the son's room on the other side of the wall, if I remember the OP. You can get a real visual image of _that_.... Thank you!


That was a different customer. Tell you what. I sure wouldn't want to be that son. I bet he got one heck of a a$$ chewing. You could feel the attitude shift the second she saw what the issue was. Kinda feel bad for the kid.

Ok, I'm over feeling bad about it now. :grin:


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

Couple of other ones:

Q: Where does the tape go? A: There is no tape.

Q: Where do I put in the DVD. A: You don't, you put it in your DVD player.

Q: Who are you and what do you want? Me: Huh? I drive a big white van with the HUGE D* logo on it. Can't miss it if you tried. Wear a shirt with the D* logo, hat with a D* logo, sometimes even pants with a D* logo, Id with D logo and picture. One would think I'm here to set up your D* system no? (I do wear pants all the time, just not always with the D* logo. We don't need to go down that road :grin: )

Seen many times where customers have taken the outputs of the box and plugged in their DVD player. Nope, not going to work like that.

Been to several potental customers that not only do they not have a clear view of the southern sky, they have no view of any sky at all. One guy had so much tree cover, his "yard" was nothing but dirt, grass wouldn't even grow, just moss. 

Then there are the pot/crackheads. Those are allways fun. Usually there is a note: "must call 30 minutes prior" is the first clue, the second is the address in the hood.

Had a trainee with me. We could smell that distinctive sweet smell as we walked up the steps. Customer opened the door. I swear it looked like a scene from a Cheech and Chong movie. A cloud of smoke rolled out the door. :alterhase

Or those that have their "herbs" drying in the basement. 

Been offered enough "stuff" to have a nice weekend. (declined the offer)

I like when you drill into a wall and roaches (the insect kind) crawl out. That sets the tone for the day.

Been to service calls for dead boxes. Reason the box was dead was due to a dead bug inside the box. 

More later.:grin:


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

Here's one more:

Customer buys Monster brand cable. :nono2:


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

HarleyD said:


> Although I have to admit, my sympathy for you dropped a notch when you said you're not a Browns fan.
> 
> I'm a huge Browns fan. I lived in NE Ohio the first 40 years of my life. I was born and raised in Youngstown and then lived in the greater Cleveland area for 20 years before moving to Central Florida in 2000.


Grew up in far western Michigan. If I was any farther west, I'd been in the lake itself. So for football, it was the Bears & The Irish. Being in Michigan, one would think that we'd be all Detroit team fans and State & MSU fans right. Not so fast.

All of our TV was out of Chicago & South Bend. So if you wanted to watch a game, it was Bears, Cubs & Sox or the Irish. Of course that was complicated by the fact that even though South Bend was East of us, they were a time zone behind. What a PITA that was as a kid with a "bedtime".


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## Teronzhul (Sep 21, 2006)

I was offered percocets just today on an upgrade. 

A customer today asked me to run his wires "conspicuous." I did the opposite of course.

Last week I did an "install" on a small (less than 1000 square foot) home that for some reason already had a dish and an active R10. The customer refused to allow me to use the remaining 2 ports on the original dish and insisted I put up another 3lnb adjacent to the first.

Due to the Bellsouth/AT&T combo with D* I am often mistaken for an AT&T tech. 

I got out my truck (little red chevy s10) in full DirecTV uniform and the customer proceeded to ask me when they were giving me my AT&T van. I informed her that I didn't work for them, and what my work order was for. She didn't want D*, so I told her I would cancel the work order and they might want to speak to her quickly to verify the cancellation. She said "sure, no problem" and then promptly closed the door in my face. It would be funnier if you could see her confusion, she wasn't intentionally being rude. 

Once I had a pregnant girl (account holder) who was engaged to an overseas marine hitting on me hard. During the installation her mother who was living with a new boyfriend came to visit. Her first question was, "Does DirecTV get TBN (Trinity Broadcasting Network)?" I think perhaps they should watch it more...

These may not be funny so much as strange, but they were the first things to come to mind. I'll think on it more, as I'm sure I had some other story worthy experiences.

Whoever it was that mentioned service techs being D* personnel, think again. The ones driving the vans are just HSP techs, whether they're doing installs or service calls. I worked with a service tech for a while who had no idea that HDMI carried audio.


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## mx6bfast (Nov 8, 2006)

Teronzhul said:


> Once I had a pregnant girl (account holder) who was engaged to an overseas marine hitting on me hard. During the installation her mother who was living with a new boyfriend came to visit. Her first question was, "Does DirecTV get TBN (Trinity Broadcasting Network)?" I think perhaps they should watch it more...


I thought only those kind of people were in Arkansas and Mississippi.

:grin:


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## Teronzhul (Sep 21, 2006)

Definitely in Florida too. Of course my part of Florida might as well be annexed by Alabama. 

A few minutes ago I was precalling customers for tomorrow. One asked what was involved with the installation. "Wait... you're putting up a dish? I thought my tv was going to come in through the phone line..."

Sigh

Before you ask, we're nowhere close to Verizon serviced area, and AT&T lightspeed is probably years away from being a reality here.


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## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

RobertE said:


> Here's one more:
> 
> Customer buys Monster brand cable. :nono2:


LOL! :thats:


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## PANCHITO (Apr 8, 2006)

Ridiculous Things Installers have Told Customers, It should more like, Ridiculous Things a want to be installer Have Told Customers. you can call installer to a guy with 3 days training. all good installers look for better jobs because sub companies don't pay good money.sub companies don't care if they leave because they hire a new 3 days training guys. D* will have less problems controlling how much sub companies pay their employees instead in demanding phone lines connectivity. RobertE blaming D* for frebees and less money, guess what the company you work for is getting good money for a service call, so don't blame D* for getting $15.


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## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

At the risk of being laughed at, why is Monster cable bad?


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## mx6bfast (Nov 8, 2006)

Upstream said:


> At the risk of being laughed at, why is Monster cable bad?


It's not that they are bad, it's just that they are sooooo overpriced when you can get the same quality of cable for so much cheaper from other websites.

For example an 8 foot HDMI cable.
$150 from Best Buy, http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage...CategoryId=pcmcat69400050020&id=1109938023935
$25 from Blue Jeans Cable, http://bluejeanscable.com/store/dvi/index.htm
10 ft from Monoprice $21.60, http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...cs_id=1024002&p_id=2281&seq=1&format=2&style=

Moral of the story, don't buy cables from BB or CC.


----------



## HarleyD (Aug 31, 2006)

Teronzhul said:


> Definitely in Florida too. Of course my part of Florida might as well be annexed by Alabama.
> 
> A few minutes ago I was precalling customers for tomorrow. One asked what was involved with the installation. "Wait... you're putting up a dish? I thought my tv was going to come in through the phone line..."
> 
> ...


What part of Florida are you in.

It sounds an awful lot like Polk County, where I live.

The rule of thumb is that if you have all your teeth, you moved here from somewhere else.

People don't realize that when you get 30 or 40 miles inland, away from the beaches and tourists, that Florida turns into a scene from Deliverance very quickly.


----------



## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

RobertE said:


> So by your reasoning then, it should be 100% a-ok for me and other installers to come on here and post thread after thread about stupid customers and the things they have done? It is a two way street after all.
> 
> Bottom line is, threads like these server absoultley no purpose other than flame bait. Some have claimed it was in "humor". Humor is not funny when it is taken at a groups expense. What if we were to replace "installer" with (pick any ethnic or racial group)? Would that still be ok?
> 
> ...


Robert,
Happens all the time. Get over it. I'm sure you've never made or enjoyed a lawyer joke. Ignore the thread if you don't like it. Post stupid customer stories if you like...they might be funny too.
As long as they're not malicious...we need to learn to laugh a bit more.


----------



## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

HarleyD said:


> What part of Florida are you in.
> 
> It sounds an awful lot like Polk County, where I live.
> 
> ...


Harley,
AT&T advertises delivering TV...it would be hard for some to think it came from the phone line. I got an advertisement from them about their "triple play" yesterday...and nowhere did it say satellite on it.


----------



## aim2pls (Jun 18, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> Robert, I do really understand your point of view, but the idea of D* giving out "freebies" as the cause of installers not being paid a good wage & trained adequately, seems misguided. The responsibility for this falls squarely on the shoulders of D* management. If they were to stop every "freebie" right now, the only thing that would happen is the management would get bigger bonuses for showing a better "bottom-line".
> It's the sad state of corporate management today that "the worker" is not part of "the team". The "worker bees" have become just another replaceable commodity, to be "gotten for" at the lowest price available. There was a time that management knew the value of a good worker, but this has been replaced with "golden parachutes" for the executives that may or may not be an asset to the company.
> 
> The customer isn't much more that an idiot with a wallet.
> ...


$70 for a thirty minute service call being a good wage .... well ....IF that was all there was too it ..... you are disregarding minor things like getting to and from the service call (add an hour or two for that) .... cost of fuel (even at 10 mpg and 10 miles each way .. thats $6.00) .... and don't forget the $8.00 for workmen's comp .... $3.00 for liability insurance ... $ 6.00 for truck insurance .... $3.00 truck maintenance / repair .... $3.00 truck depreciation ..... 11.00 FICA ..... so that works out to 10.00 per hour net ..... and then there are other expenses


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

aim2pls said:


> $70 for a thirty minute service call being a good wage .... well ....IF that was all there was too it ..... you are disregarding minor things like getting to and from the service call (add an hour or two for that) .... cost of fuel (even at 10 mpg and 10 miles each way .. thats $6.00) .... and don't forget the $8.00 for workmen's comp .... $3.00 for liability insurance ... $ 6.00 for truck insurance .... $3.00 truck maintenance / repair .... $3.00 truck depreciation ..... 11.00 FICA ..... so that works out to 10.00 per hour net ..... and then there are other expenses


This was my post #30, & read my post #36.
You're not saying anything I don't know., but hey if you can't make a living charging $70 for 30 min, you should ask yourself "what's wrong with this picture?"


----------



## bohica89 (Jun 26, 2007)

You are actually better off with refurbished equipment because it's had all the bugs worked out of it...


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

bohica89 said:


> You are actually better off with refurbished equipment because it's had all the bugs worked out of it...


The bugs are in software, which is the same on every unit.


----------



## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

RobertE said:


> Have to talk to the customer to "find out" what is going on. The other 27.5 minutes was moving all the customers junk that was stacked on and around the box and outlet. Guess I'm a moving guy as well.


And there was no overheating issue? I would think that stacking on and around the box would be a very bad thing. Sort of like putting a computer in a closed cabinet and wondering why it keeps shutting off.

I hate it when we get computers in for repair that are alive. Roaches.

My one brother and my father both had stories where they went to do plumbing work and left because of large rats and/or roaches.

How can people live like that?


----------



## mx6bfast (Nov 8, 2006)

TBoneit said:


> My one brother and my father both had stories where they went to do plumbing work and left because of large rats and/or roaches.
> 
> How can people live like that?


When my wife was doing clinic when she was in nursing school a few years ago she would go to different areas in Memphis and would see roaches all over peoples houses. She was taking some lady's blood pressure and a roach crawled right over the lady's arm.

Spend a few bucks, get some roach spray. At least keep in near you.


----------



## Teronzhul (Sep 21, 2006)

Yep, I did one install where the customer was walking around his house squashing roaches with his bare hands. Creepy.


----------



## aim2pls (Jun 18, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> This was my post #30, & read my post #36.
> You're not saying anything I don't know., but hey if you can't make a living charging $70 for 30 min, you should ask yourself "what's wrong with this picture?"


sorry missed those ....... and your right ... about "whats wrong with ...." ..... why i don't work consumer jobs


----------



## Teronzhul (Sep 21, 2006)

HarleyD said:


> What part of Florida are you in.
> 
> It sounds an awful lot like Polk County, where I live.
> 
> ...


I'm in Santa Rosa County, just east of Pensacola on the Panhandle. There is a huge disparity in income and uh, other faculties between the south side of the county (waterfront) and the middle and north end of the county. I live smack dab in the middle, and listen to donkeys bay every morning.

15 miles south of me is major tourist country and multimillion dollar high rise condos.


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Teronzhul said:


> I live smack dab in the middle, and listen to donkeys bay every morning.


Are those your customers? :lol:


----------



## Skip Towne (Dec 20, 2003)

I don't know how many times I've heard "Please excuse the mess, we're getting ready for a garage sale". Or "we are still moving in". Yeah, OK, lady but how does that explain the cockroaches and all the rusted junk in the yard? Then I have to move junk to set up my ladder.


----------



## ldmth44 (Dec 15, 2006)

RobertE said:


> Yes, some of the things installers say and/or do are in fact ridiculous. That is a symptom of poor training do to D* & the HSPs not wanting to pay a decent wage for installers.


If I wanted to have an installer give me a load of crap because he or she DID NOT know what to do, I probably would have tried a self-install or maybe go to a different provider. Granted, I am a heating and air conditioning service tech and I am supposed to act with the best interest of the company I work for. Since I agreed to get paid the wage I am making, that does not give me the right to bull**** the customer. It is easier to ASK another tech if I am stuck on an issue rather than put my foot in my mouth and potentially damage the company's reputation. But, in this day and age, people (even techs) want it for free or do not want to take the time to do it right since they have to get to the next job quickly.


----------



## ldmth44 (Dec 15, 2006)

RobertE said:


> Of that $70, want to take a guess at how much I see? $15. Doesn't matter if I'm there 5 minutes or 5 hours.


Look for another job!!


----------



## Ext 721 (Feb 26, 2007)

Upstream said:


> At the risk of being laughed at, why is Monster cable bad?


as an installer, I had about 10 people hold one up with great pride, and said "here, use this one"

I had to send 6 of those people back to the store for a refund when their $50-$150 "monster" cables failed to get a picture on the screen, and the free ones I provided worked flawlessly


----------



## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

A "Monster" ate their wallets....


----------



## aim2pls (Jun 18, 2007)

ldmth44 said:


> Look for another job!!


if every under paid D* installer looks for another job ....... who would the consumer get to do the "free" install

I know my UPS driver isn't installing anymore


----------



## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> The bugs are in software, which is the same on every unit.


I don't know. From the discussion on roaches, it sounds like sometimes the bugs are in the hardware, and sometimes they scamper across the floor.


----------



## Teronzhul (Sep 21, 2006)

Ok, the last job of the day yesterday was particularly frustrating. It was a ka/ku dish upgrade for a customer who already had an HR20-100. 

He was particularly concerned about his signal strengths so I showed him the meters after setup, the lowest of which was 97 on 110. 101 and 119 were both 99-100. His next question, "so is that good?"

It isn't like it mattered, however, as he had the HR20 hooked up to a Sony XBR 4:3 CRT and was using it in 480p crop mode because that was the only way it would display full screen without letterbox/pillar bars. 

He also told me his 3lnb wouldn't fit in his trash can. I saw his trash can, and he could have fit 3 3lnb dishes in it. I don't think I'm going to take anyone's old dishes down any more.


----------



## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

aim2pls said:


> if every under paid D* installer looks for another job ....... who would the consumer get to do the "free" install
> 
> I know my UPS driver isn't installing anymore


I'm sure they'll find people willing, and maybe happy, to do the jobs. Doesn't look like D is suffering too much profit-wise.


----------



## Dr_J (Apr 15, 2007)

Teronzhul said:


> He was particularly concerned about his signal strengths so I showed him the meters after setup, the lowest of which was 97 on 110. 101 and 119 were both 99-100. His next question, "so is that good?"


Can you come up and align mine? 

In eight years of having D*, I've never had numbers so good that the lowest was 97 on all sats.


----------



## Ext 721 (Feb 26, 2007)

Teronzhul said:


> Ok, the last job of the day yesterday was particularly frustrating. It was a ka/ku dish upgrade for a customer who already had an HR20-100.
> 
> He was particularly concerned about his signal strengths so I showed him the meters after setup, the lowest of which was 97 on 110. 101 and 119 were both 99-100. His next question, "so is that good?"
> 
> ...


uh. Ebay the LNB, and see if there's a scrap dealer who buys scrap iron in quantities of less than half a ton.

When I was switching singles for triples, I could trust to make $7 each on LNBs that otherwise would have ended their lives in the company dumpster.


----------



## Ext 721 (Feb 26, 2007)

aim2pls said:


> $70 for a thirty minute service call being a good wage .... well ....IF that was all there was too it ..... you are disregarding minor things like getting to and from the service call (add an hour or two for that) .... cost of fuel (even at 10 mpg and 10 miles each way .. thats $6.00) .... and don't forget the $8.00 for workmen's comp .... $3.00 for liability insurance ... $ 6.00 for truck insurance .... $3.00 truck maintenance / repair .... $3.00 truck depreciation ..... 11.00 FICA ..... so that works out to 10.00 per hour net ..... and then there are other expenses


yep-per. service calls pay squat, but TIVO upgrades really blew goats.

BTW, you forgot the 5 minutes of paperwork on the service call.

Geez, $70 for a half hour indeed.

An equally misinformed restaurant goer might look at their $10 McDonald's bill, look at the two minutes it took to get to them, and calculate that a McDonald's employee makes $120/hour.


----------



## Ext 721 (Feb 26, 2007)

Ken S said:


> I'm sure they'll find people willing, and maybe happy, to do the jobs. Doesn't look like D is suffering too much profit-wise.


they are finding willing, happy people.

Pero es una problema....no les hablan ingles.:lol:


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Ext 721 said:


> they are finding willing, happy people.
> 
> Pero es una problema....no les hablan ingles.:lol:


They don't limit them selves to just "the southern side". Several installers that have come out for a service call have come from across the Pacific & eastern Europe [but not that day].


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> They don't limit them selves to just "the southern side". Several installers that have come out for a service call have come from across the Pacific & eastern Europe [but not that day].


I find myself amazed at some of the wages the installers said they were getting. I would think that the NYC Metro installers would be the highest paid and I know they only make $12.50 an hour. Naive, I am, I guess.

Read that rant one of the installers went into about the drug smells in the house. I wouldn't be surprised to find a bunch of installers sitting in a bar, drinking merrily, talking about the druggies and not seeing the hypocrisy in the bottom of their glasses.

Having done a lot of electrical work in people's houses, I would much rather deal with a druggie than a drunk.

Rather deal with a male customer than a female customer. But then I must admit I am rather chauvinistic.

By the way, in one of your posts on this thread you sounded a bit xenophobic. Getting tired of American companies outsourcing their tech centers to other countries? I am. Just activated Onstar on my new Caddie (you will recall my wife totalled my other Caddie earlier this month) and had a terrible time understanding the CSR. Never expected that. Then I activated the XM radio and went thru the same thing.

Fred says "HI".


----------



## Skip Towne (Dec 20, 2003)

Ext 721 said:


> as an installer, I had about 10 people hold one up with great pride, and said "here, use this one"
> 
> I had to send 6 of those people back to the store for a refund when their $50-$150 "monster" cables failed to get a picture on the screen, and the free ones I provided worked flawlessly


Some people just have too much money.


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## daddywags (Jun 27, 2007)

hr 10 250 vsvip622


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## aim2pls (Jun 18, 2007)

rich584 said:


> I find myself amazed at some of the wages the installers said they were getting. I would think that the NYC Metro installers would be the highest paid and I know they only make $12.50 an hour. Naive, I am, I guess.
> 
> Read that rant one of the installers went into about the drug smells in the house. I wouldn't be surprised to find a bunch of installers sitting in a bar, drinking merrily, talking about the druggies and not seeing the hypocrisy in the bottom of their glasses.
> 
> ...


damn picky these days (lol) expecting a CSR to speak "the good english":lol: :hurah:


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

rich584 said:


> Fred says "HI".


How is he getting along with Gennie?


----------



## Newshawk (Sep 3, 2004)

daddywags said:


> hr 10 250 vsvip622


What?

Besides, you're trying to compare a first generation MPEG 2 only HD DVR to a (?) generation (it's hard to tell with an E* DVR IMHO). MPEG 4 HD DVR...


----------



## sack9 (Mar 13, 2007)

RobertE said:


> Do we really want to go down this road? Again?
> 
> Or maybe the installers that visit this board should start a thread "Ridiculous Things Customers Have Done & Asked"
> 
> No good can come of this thread.


I second That..


----------



## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

Newshawk said:


> What?
> 
> Besides, you're trying to compare a first generation MPEG 2 only HD DVR to a (?) generation (it's hard to tell with an E* DVR IMHO). MPEG 4 HD DVR...


I think the Vip622 would be third generation? 
921, 942, 622? At least that is what I see in the dishnetwork section when I looked just now.

So the HR-20 would be third gen too? and both the 622 and hr-20 are the first gen of mpeg4?


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## wase4711 (Jun 21, 2007)

I have empathy for all service employees, who are always under paid and over worked..Obviously the companies that employ them are loaded with highly paid executives, but the big bucks never trickle down to the folks that actually do the work..from the clerical people to the installers...
Just another thing about corporate American that is causing so many people to be angry and depressed.
I always try and help an installer, offer them food and drink, and if I have any trinkets that I can give them, INCLUDING a tip for a job well done, I always go that route. Hoepfully, makes them happy for a bit, and the next person they go do an install at gets a happy camper, insted of an angry one.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> How is he getting along with Gennie?


Gestation period, Gennie should pop up soon. Fred waits with panting muffler.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

wase4711 said:


> I have empathy for all service employees, who are always under paid and over worked..Obviously the companies that employ them are loaded with highly paid executives, but the big bucks never trickle down to the folks that actually do the work..from the clerical people to the installers...
> Just another thing about corporate American that is causing so many people to be angry and depressed.
> I always try and help an installer, offer them food and drink, and if I have any trinkets that I can give them, INCLUDING a tip for a job well done, I always go that route. Hoepfully, makes them happy for a bit, and the next person they go do an install at gets a happy camper, insted of an angry one.


Tried all that, didn't help. Don't see how they are overworked. Easy job compared to other jobs in that pay range. At least they aren't on an assembly line or doing anything more dangerous than climbing a ladder or spraying insecticides, etc.


----------



## aim2pls (Jun 18, 2007)

rich584 said:


> Tried all that, didn't help. Don't see how they are overworked. Easy job compared to other jobs in that pay range. At least they aren't on an assembly line or doing anything more dangerous than climbing a ladder or spraying insecticides, etc.


interesting comment about pay range ... how much do you think an installer really makes doing an installation and how much time do you think is really involved.

climbing a ladder can be hazardous to your health btw.

MY UPS driver use to be a D* installer till he found a better job.


----------



## d max82 (May 23, 2007)

About two and a half years ago on inital install:

Me: You can just mount the dish there next to the Dish network dish.

Installer: It's against the FCC to have more than two satellites on a house, you can go to jail.

Me: I'll take my chances

Installer Why do you want both anyways?

Me: because I want Sunday ticket and I'm keeping dish network because they have more HD channels.

Installer: Nope Directv does

Me: So how many do they have then?

Installer: Like 30 or so..........




It was also great when I finally did upgrade to D* HD. Took they guy 6 hours to install the dish, & couldn't speak a word of english.


----------



## TigersFanJJ (Feb 17, 2006)

rich584 said:


> Tried all that, didn't help. Don't see how they are overworked. Easy job compared to other jobs in that pay range. At least they aren't on an assembly line or doing anything more dangerous than climbing a ladder or spraying insecticides, etc.


Funniest post in this thread. The funniest part is that some people actually think that way (or are allowed to think at all). :bonk1:


----------



## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

Fall off of a ladder, carry Roach eggs home and infest your own home? Not hazardous?

Getting a job with health benefits where you stay at ground level is better. I used to drive for a living. Now I work inside insulated from the weather and heat or cold and I'm not out the on the roads wondering what jackass stunt the next car will pull. Ever notice the jacknifed tractor trailers on rainy/snowy days in the traffic reports? They got cut off. 

:beatdeadhorse: Know how to speed up a slow car? Try and pass it. Give up and they slow down again. 

Every exit you have to watch out for the bleeps that cross 2 or three lanes and pass in front of you braking hard for their exit. :rant: 

Why do you think so many installers these have English as a second language instead of it being their native tongue?


----------



## uscboy (Sep 5, 2006)

Jeez people, let it go... this was a funny thread until the installers *cough*Robert*cough* 
came in and ruined it.

Less drama girls, more funny stories... thanks.

If you don't like the fact that there are a lot of idiot installers out there (and there 
are...) then just.... wait for it.... DON'T CLICK ON THE THREAD. duh.

And by all means, start a 'Stupid customers' thread... sounds funny too. Just stop 
wasting post after post here in this thread, it sucks wading through it to find the 
otherwise hilarious installer stories... some of these are classic!

By the way, I'm in IT also and feel free to start an "IT idiots" thread also... I've 
worked with a few of them myself... promise I won't get upset and cry about the 
thread too.


----------



## msmith198025 (Jun 28, 2007)

uscboy said:


> Jeez people, let it go... this was a funny thread until the installers *cough*Robert*cough*
> came in and ruined it.
> 
> Less drama girls, more funny stories... thanks.
> ...


Haha i agree, its all in fun people! and yes start the idiot customer thread! I bet it would be filled with funny stuff!


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

aim2pls said:


> interesting comment about pay range ... how much do you think an installer really makes doing an installation and how much time do you think is really involved.
> 
> climbing a ladder can be hazardous to your health btw.
> 
> MY UPS driver use to be a D* installer till he found a better job.


I have asked several installers how much their hourly rate was. $12.50.

The way the installers use their ladders is against the Occupational Safety and Health Act which mandates that a ladder shall be tied off on the top or footed on the bottom. This makes placing a ladder in position and climbing it a two man job. OSHA also mandates that anyone working within 4 (I think that is the figure) feet of the edge of a roof be securely tied off and wearing a safety harness. So, yes, climbing a ladder can be hazardous the employee and disastrous to his employer should OSHA be notified of this infraction or if the employee falls off the ladder or roof and is injured.

How much time should it take? Depends on the installer and how much wiring is involved. No more than two hours for the average installation, I would think. They have a digital meter that allows them to align the sat dish properly, so that part is pretty quick. 4 screws for the mounting plate. And the wiring. Simple.

"Professional Installation" indeed.

All they are doing is screwing in a plate for the satellite dish and running wire. Think that's hard work? I don't. They get virtually no training. How hard could it be?


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

TigersFanJJ said:


> Funniest post in this thread. The funniest part is that some people actually think that way (or are allowed to think at all). :bonk1:


Should I be offended? Or were you agreeing with me? Hard to tell.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Drew2k said:


> I'm in perfect agreement with you on this.
> 
> But I have no clue how customers asking for freebies impacts the pay or longevity for installers. In fact, customers asking for and getting freebies just means there's more of a need for installers, so ... aren't those customers keeping the installers in business?


Now that is logical! And it is Man-Logic!


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

rich584 said:


> Now that is logical! And it is Man-Logic!


So Fred agrees and Gennie is just sitting there with one of "those looks"? :lol:


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> Which is why, with my knowledge & experience, I'm not an installer.
> Workers can't stay in a job without a "fair wage".
> My local TV repairman charges $75 & the last time spent an hour or more.
> Sears charges $105 for a service call [and it's a hour drive to my place].
> ...


My consulting hourly rate would really shock you. I keep raising it so people will leave me alone, but...

Remember, the Sears repairman gets less than $20.00 an hour and that is a whole lot more dangerous than an installer's job.

I think, and in some cases I know, that people who work for low wages do so for the benefits. Health insurance costs about $900 a month for those with a job without benefits. For instance the contractor who just worked in my flooded family room replacing Sheetrock. I would imagine that varies by state.

Oh, I forgot the humor: Fred wants to be an installer!


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

shadyridr said:


> The installer who came to install my 5LNB dish said he has no clue why they make them install the 5LNB dishes because the satellites arent up yet. Also told me they cant remove 3LNB dish because HR10-250 wouldnt work on the new dish. This was in Feb. He then set up my HR20 with the 3LNB setup because the other LNBs wont get a signal anyway. After he left I tried using the 5LNB setup and got no signal on the 2 new sats. Got another installer to come out 3 weeks later and he was there 2 hours before he finally climbed on the roof to see why they didnt work. The previous installer just put the 5LNB dish up on the roof and didnt connect any of the lines in to it. He connected everything to the 3LNB. If I saw this guy again Id probably punch him in the face for lying to me, being lazy, wasting my time, and basically treating me like dirt.


You get the same installers we do in Jersey. All ours come from Staten Island.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

aim2pls said:


> damn picky these days (lol) expecting a CSR to speak "the good english":lol: :hurah:


I expected American English from OnStar and got a call center in the Phillipines and expected American English from XM Radio and got Pakistan English (or was it the other way around?).


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> So Fred agrees and Gennie is just sitting there with one of "those looks"? :lol:


Yeah.


----------



## aim2pls (Jun 18, 2007)

rich584 said:


> I have asked several installers how much their hourly rate was. $12.50.
> 
> The way the installers use their ladders is against the Occupational Safety and Health Act which mandates that a ladder shall be tied off on the top or footed on the bottom. This makes placing a ladder in position and climbing it a two man job. OSHA also mandates that anyone working within 4 (I think that is the figure) feet of the edge of a roof be securely tied off and wearing a safety harness. So, yes, climbing a ladder can be hazardous the employee and disastrous to his employer should OSHA be notified of this infraction or if the employee falls off the ladder or roof and is injured.
> 
> ...


so easy ... ANY consumer "should" be able to do it


----------



## aim2pls (Jun 18, 2007)

rich584 said:


> You get the same installers we do in Jersey. All ours come from Staten Island.


now THAT is funny


----------



## AlbertZeroK (Jan 28, 2006)

rich584 said:


> I expected American English from OnStar and got a call center in the Phillipines and expected American English from XM Radio and got Pakistan English (or was it the other way around?).


Onstar is not US Based? So much for it's usability...


----------



## TigersFanJJ (Feb 17, 2006)

rich584 said:


> Should I be offended? Or were you agreeing with me? Hard to tell.


I didn't really expect you to understand the post.

BTW, it would be really nice if all there was to this job was screwing four screws into a plate, and running wire. Too bad there is a lot more to it than that.


----------



## donshan (Jun 18, 2007)

After doing a good job replacing my HR10-250 with a new 5 LNB dish and HR20-700 and activating DirectTV with HD package and local SD channels the installer states. 

DirecTV installer:

"There, you are set up for DirecTV HD and the HD local channels will be activated this September" 

Me:

"I was receiving our CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX, and PBS local HD broadcast channels on the antenna input on the HR10-250 you just replaced" Please set up the antenna input on the HR-20 for our HD locals channels, and I don't think our market is scheduled for DirecTV HD locals until the DirecTV 11 satellite launches and it is on hold. 

DirecTV installer:

"Do we have local HD digital broadcast stations ? I didn't know that. How does that work?"

After me showing him the antenna input on the HR-20 and doing the OTA setup to pick our local market and set up the local channels for him, I was receiving all five HD channels he then states:
'
DirecTV Installer:

"I sure am glad I had the chance to talk to you" I didn't know you could get HD broadcasts on the antenna input"


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## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

donshan said:


> DirecTV Installer:
> 
> "I sure am glad I had the chance to talk to you" I didn't know you could get HD broadcasts on the antenna input"


And on future installs in places where they don't yet have HD locals on the sat, he'll probably be connecting sat lines from the dish to the OTA inputs so they can get locals! :hurah:


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## AnonomissX (Jun 29, 2006)

Oh yeah: 

When the installers would come on the line, to activate a reciever, or get some input (not everything can be done w/out a call to the 800 # all the time) I would tell them:

"They pay me to talk to them, they pay you to climb on the roof!" :lol: :lol:


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

TigersFanJJ said:


> I didn't really expect you to understand the post.
> 
> BTW, it would be really nice if all there was to this job was screwing four screws into a plate, and running wire. Too bad there is a lot more to it than that.


Did you not expect me to understand the post because of it's ambiguity? Or do you think I'm stupid? I was an Industrial Electrician and supervised Electricians for years. I have followed the installers every step of the way and the job as I see it (and I am also a trained job estimator) is about what you state above. You might have to hook up a multiswitch or use splitters (whoops, sorry about that, my installers have no idea what splitters are used for) but that shouldn't take more than a couple minutes to figure out. What else is there?

Try to write something comprehensible the next time.


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## Teronzhul (Sep 21, 2006)

So not exactly fitting for this thread but humorous nonetheless. 

I was working today on a new high def install, and was outside for quite some time dealing with a pole mount + about 70 feet of trenching. The customer's daughter, who was probably about 4 or 5 years old, came outside and watched me for a bit. 

Eventually she asked, "are you fixing our tv?"

"Why yes I am"

She then looked at me like I must be the biggest moron on the planet and said, "Well.... our tv is INSIDE."


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Teronzhul said:


> So not exactly fitting for this thread but humorous nonetheless.
> 
> I was working today on a new high def install, and was outside for quite some time dealing with a pole mount + about 70 feet of trenching. The customer's daughter, who was probably about 4 or 5 years old, came outside and watched me for a bit.
> 
> ...


I see she was smarter than the "average" customer. :lol:


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

Teronzhul said:


> So not exactly fitting for this thread but humorous nonetheless.
> 
> I was working today on a new high def install, and was outside for quite some time dealing with a pole mount + about 70 feet of trenching. The customer's daughter, who was probably about 4 or 5 years old, came outside and watched me for a bit.
> 
> ...


Sounds like shes supervisor material.


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## Carl Newman (Mar 31, 2007)

I called D* on the 26th to have them re-locate my antenna, due to loss of LOS between two trees (wet leaves block a sat signal REAL well!). Had already mounted & cabled a new AT9 on the side of our deck, but was thinking it should be on a post.

The installer showed up on the 28th, looked at the mount and pronounced it good - no need to move. Told him all I had done was a rough azimuth/elevation alignment, so he offered to "dither" the dish. Guess he wanted to do something.

As he was "dithering" the dish, he mentioned that the 119 was not getting a good signal. Eventually he pointed at a scrub branch from a maple (with maybe 10 leaves on it) and said "Trim that branch & you'll be good to go!"

However, my azimuth to the 101 is 211, and to 119 is 230. The maple is at a 180 azimuth! And his "dithering" dropped my readings 8 - 10 units on both the 101 & 110. 

Turns out the 119 is behind my neighbors 40-50' locus tree! Glad I'm not concerned about Mpeg-2 HD.

He did give me another brace - so the service call was not a complete waste.

Carl


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## HDTVsportsfan (Nov 29, 2005)

Teronzhul said:


> ......Eventually she asked, "are you fixing our tv?"
> 
> "Why yes I am"
> 
> She then looked at me like I must be the biggest moron on the planet and said, "Well.... our tv is INSIDE."


Now that is funny.


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## TigersFanJJ (Feb 17, 2006)

rich584 said:


> Did you not expect me to understand the post because of it's ambiguity? Or do you think I'm stupid? I was an Industrial Electrician and supervised Electricians for years. I have followed the installers every step of the way and the job as I see it (and I am also a trained job estimator) is about what you state above. You might have to hook up a multiswitch or use splitters (whoops, sorry about that, my installers have no idea what splitters are used for) but that shouldn't take more than a couple minutes to figure out. What else is there?
> 
> Try to write something comprehensible the next time.


Now I know why thats all you think it is to it. You used to be an electrician.

Any installer can tell you that going behind an electrician on an install is a huge pain in the butt. In fact, that is the main thing I had in my mind when I said there was a lot more to it than than the dish and pulling cable. I can pretty much expect to be at a house troubleshooting for an extra 1-3 hours any time I have to go behind an electrician. Never have I seen so many RG59 twist-on connectors (on RG6 cable), cables where only the center conductor was stripped and just pushed into the back of the wall plate (without a connector), cable drops that end just laying under the insulation in the attic instead of with the other cables, only one or two cables going to outside instead of four, cables going to the exterior nowhere near a ground source, etc., etc., etc. I'm not saying electricians are morons (I'll save that for electrical assistance forums), but I wouldn't let one touch the cabling or home theater wiring in my home. (a funny note: the electrician that wired my home goes by the name of Dummy)

BTW, being an industrial electrician and watching an installer hardly makes you an expert. By your reasoning, I could say that being a professional car mechanic is an easy job. All they do is change out parts on a car. After all, I used to be an aircraft mechanic (and supervisor) and I've watched a mechanic work on my vehicles, so that makes me qualified to make that statement. :nono2:

I hope that helps you understand a little better. If not, I don't know how to spell it out any easier.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

I shouldn't "step in this" but: having worked on aircraft, race cars, and just a few other things, there are "installers" and "technicians". One can change a part or install it & the other knows the systems to the level that the can determine defects in it and where to correct it. "Supervisors" are for another thread/forum.
BTW: I don't want an "R&R" man working on anything of mine.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

TigersFanJJ said:


> Now I know why thats all you think it is to it. You used to be an electrician.
> 
> Any installer can tell you that going behind an electrician on an install is a huge pain in the butt. In fact, that is the main thing I had in my mind when I said there was a lot more to it than than the dish and pulling cable. I can pretty much expect to be at a house troubleshooting for an extra 1-3 hours any time I have to go behind an electrician. Never have I seen so many RG59 twist-on connectors (on RG6 cable), cables where only the center conductor was stripped and just pushed into the back of the wall plate (without a connector), cable drops that end just laying under the insulation in the attic instead of with the other cables, only one or two cables going to outside instead of four, cables going to the exterior nowhere near a ground source, etc., etc., etc. I'm not saying electricians are morons (I'll save that for electrical assistance forums), but I wouldn't let one touch the cabling or home theater wiring in my home. (a funny note: the electrician that wired my home goes by the name of Dummy)
> 
> ...


The really sad part about your post is that you don't know the difference between an Industrial Electrician and an electrician who only knows how to wire houses. There is a vast difference. But why bother to explain.

By the way, your last sentence makes no sense, what you probably meant to say was "better" rather than "easier". If you are going to argue, either learn better grammar or read a dictionary. Read this sentence: Now I know why thats all you think it is to it. You wrote that. "Thats" should be "that's" and the rest is just so poorly written, it's pitiful.

I used to run the garage facility for the company I worked for and would have hired an airplane mechanic as an auto mechanic in a heartbeat.

All that said, if you let your fingers do the walking thru the Yellow Pages under Electricians, the chances of getting a good one are pretty slim. I would not think of letting another electrician do any wiring in my house. Who better to judge an electrician than another electrician?


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

RobertE said:


> Sounds like shes supervisor material.


Been reading your posts and I am curious. Why don't you start your own business? Sounds like you know what you are doing, why work for someone? We have a company called Satellite Pros here in Jersey, and I had the owner wire my house to accomadate all the TiVos I used to have. His hourly rate 5 years ago was $125. Ended up paying him $650 for the total job and by the time he was done I had pretty much everything figured out. He explained what he was doing every step of the way and I gave him a $100 tip for putting up with me looking over his shoulder and peppering him with questions. His competence was apparent. And his overhead is low. Small house converted into a shop and reception area, a receptionist/clerk and a couple vans.

Doesn't take much start up money and you can pretty well run the business out of a truck in the beginning. And there is a market for installers who really know how to do the job. I live in an area where million dollar homes are common and the people who live in them don't want D* installers to do anything but the most basic job.

Just a thought. Some of your posts impressed me. And your frustration is obvious.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> I shouldn't "step in this" but: having worked on aircraft, race cars, and just a few other things, there are "installers" and "technicians". One can change a part or install it & the other knows the systems to the level that the can determine defects in it and where to correct it. "Supervisors" are for another thread/forum.
> BTW: I don't want an "R&R" man working on anything of mine.


Pains me to admit it, but I have no idea what an "R&R" man is. The rest I agree with wholeheartedly. I "supervised" multi-craft work groups and for the most part had very little idea what they were doing and I didn't have to know and I really didn't want to learn other crafts. Really felt stupid the first time a Process Safety Mech came in my office and asked me to look at a safety valve and give him a coherent answer to his question. Thought of myself and the rest of the "Supervisors" as "Stupidvisors" from that point on.

You really have to know your limitations and accept them.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

aim2pls said:


> so easy ... ANY consumer "should" be able to do it


A neighbor of mine installed his own dish and ran his wires so they were out of sight and found the work so easy he became a cable installer and is a bit higher up in the company now.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

rich584 said:


> Been reading your posts and I am curious. Why don't you start your own business? Sounds like you know what you are doing, why work for someone? We have a company called Satellite Pros here in Jersey, and I had the owner wire my house to accomadate all the TiVos I used to have.
> Just a thought. Some of your posts impressed me. And your frustration is obvious.


Lack of financial backing & time are my major roadblocks right now. I would really, really like to go independent.

One thing that I would do, and wish D* and/or E* would do is go to a two day install process. Day one, someone comes out and goes over everything with you. Dish location, where the lines are going to go, custom charges, the works. Day two would be the actual install.

The benefit I see of doing a two day install would be, the customer will know ahead of time what exactly is going to happen, no surprise charges, no no line of sight issues. If you can manage the customers expectations, your so far ahead of the game for customer satisfaction. Downside for the customer is of course, someone will need to be there on two days. From the installers standpoint, he will already know that the install can go in, no BS no line of sight issues, no surprises on addition equipment or weird mounting requirements, doesn't have to explain custom charges, etc.

Thanks for the support, I try and do my best for the customer. Some days are more trying than others, and seeing endless threads like these day after day gets real old.


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## willis3 (Feb 2, 2007)

I was told by my installer ( 2 years ago) that I would have SD Locals within 6 months... I doubt we ever will..DMA 173!


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

rich584 said:


> Pains me to admit it, but I have no idea what an "R&R" man is.
> You really have to know your limitations and accept them.


"Remove and replace" [most times done while either thinking about your weekend past or up coming, or done while not thinking of anything at all].
A good supervisor, need not know how to do a job, but knows how to "read their workers" and sense things going well or needing some help.


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## TigersFanJJ (Feb 17, 2006)

rich584 said:


> The really sad part about your post is that you don't know the difference between an Industrial Electrician and an electrician who only knows how to wire houses. There is a vast difference. But why bother to explain.
> 
> By the way, your last sentence makes no sense, what you probably meant to say was "better" rather than "easier". If you are going to argue, either learn better grammar or read a dictionary. Read this sentence: Now I know why thats all you think it is to it. You wrote that. "Thats" should be "that's" and the rest is just so poorly written, it's pitiful.


A couple of things before I go.

1. Maybe you shouldn't assume you know everything about everyone. I grew up in a family full of industrial electricians. My grandfather (retired now), father, uncle, and three brothers are all industrial electricians. I spent 5 years as one myself, so I know the difference.

2. It gets on the nerves of almost everyone when the spelling/punctuation/grammer police show up on a message board. At the very least, check over your own posts before calling out others.

I've got more important things to worry about. My guess is, so do you. May you have a blessed evening. :goodjob:


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## bto4wd (Apr 17, 2007)

TigersFanJJ said:


> 2. It gets on the nerves of almost everyone when the spelling/punctuation/grammer police show up on a message board. At the very least, check over your own posts before calling out others.


If the police are being picky, yes I agree. Also, grammer is grammar and all you have to work with is what you were learned in school. But as far as spelling goes.....download the current version of Firefox. It comes with a speel checker. 

The only reason for bad spelling is laziness.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

bto4wd said:


> If the police are being picky, yes I agree. Also, grammer is grammar and all you have to work with is what you were learned in school. But as far as spelling goes.....download the current version of Firefox. It comes with a speel checker.
> 
> The only reason for bad spelling is laziness.


There is a free app plug-in for IE also. I found it by clicking on the "abc check" above the icons to the right.
For someone with my "skills" [or lack] it makes my postings understandable after "proofing" what I type.
Being "old school", I was taught to do this as a sign of respect to who I wanted communicate to. If someone can't "take the time", why would someone else want to answer?


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## TigersFanJJ (Feb 17, 2006)

bto4wd said:


> If the police are being picky, yes I agree. Also, grammer is grammar and all you have to work with is what you were learned in school. But as far as spelling goes.....download the current version of Firefox. It comes with a speel checker.
> 
> The only reason for bad spelling is laziness.


I overlooked one and got pulled over. My bad.


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## bto4wd (Apr 17, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> ...it makes my postings understandable...


Hey, there's only so much a plugin can help with......:lol:

Sorry, couldn't leave that one alone.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

bto4wd said:


> Hey, there's only so much a plugin can help with......:lol:
> 
> Sorry, couldn't leave that one alone.


I see you've read some of my postings...:lol:


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## shadyridr (Jan 25, 2007)

rich584 said:


> You get the same installers we do in Jersey. All ours come from Staten Island.


The "idiot" that installed my 5 LNB dish was from Staten Island. My original installer and the guy who fixed the "idiots" install were from NJ.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

RobertE said:


> Lack of financial backing & time are my major roadblocks right now. I would really, really like to go independent.
> 
> One thing that I would do, and wish D* and/or E* would do is go to a two day install process. Day one, someone comes out and goes over everything with you. Dish location, where the lines are going to go, custom charges, the works. Day two would be the actual install.
> 
> ...


Develop a coherent business plan based on your knowledge of what's missing. Don't think like an installer, think like you are going to make the installation better than the installer did. Nobody is going to pay you a lot of money to do an install when they can get it for free. But setting up a "home theater" type room is where the real money is. And the money is really good. I have had people beg me to set up a TiVo system like mine in their homes, but I would rather watch TV and hit baseballs than do a laborious job like that. Believe me, the money is there. Of course you have to learn more than just the satellite technology. For instance, sound systems, projectors and screens, etc.

As for the time, you have the time. I don't know how old you are, but if you are below 40, you have the time. You would have to become fanatical about it, but you can find the time. And if you have to work 8 hours a day installing for a D* subcontractor, you can always find time at night when people are at home. I worked "doubles" for years. If you are married make sure your wife can work and don't let her keep the books.

The money? That's the easy part. Just get your business plan together and have it professionally printed. Go to a bank and be prepared to go thru the best BS session of your life. Be prepared to answer all the important questions such as: Do you have a lawyer and an accountant? Most important thing about starting a new business is have a financial plan and for that you need an accountant. Don't try to save money and do the accounting yourself, that's a sure path to failure. You will suffer for a while, but in the end that suffering will pay off. Dress well and use "Sir" liberally. Half the battle is getting the guy to like you.

Also, don't be afraid to base your pay scale on what you think you and your ability are worth. It certainly is more than $15 an hour + bennies. I was happy to pay Satellite Pros' tech (pretty sure he is the owner or partner too) $125 an hour. And that was in 2002.

All I see is opportunities in this phase (the after install upgrades) of the Satellite/Cable business.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> "Remove and replace" [most times done while either thinking about your weekend past or up coming, or done while not thinking of anything at all].
> A good supervisor, need not know how to do a job, but knows how to "read their workers" and sense things going well or needing some help.


Oddly, "remove and replace" was what we were taught in the Navy. If our fire control radar went down and we had an idea which component drawer (the radar system had a lot of drawers, and they were about as large as a TiVo and fit into slots in the framework of the system). Anyhow, at Battle Stations, you just ripped out the suspected drawer, threw a new one in and if that didn't work, just continued "ripping and heaving". When you're at Battle Stations you have no time to trouble shoot. Pretty expensive to do in civilian life, but critical when fighting your ship. Makes me wonder how many Navy trained mechanics retain that philosophy in civilian life.

You're right on the button about supervisors. Also true of managers.

Hard to supervise a multi-craft union crew in an industrial environment. So easy to bull**** me, and the other supervisors. Lot of responsibility, fair wage, lots of stress. Used to dread full Moons. Happy day in my life when I moved up. Better day when I quit working all those years (13) ago. Don't miss it a bit.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> There is a free app plug-in for IE also. I found it by clicking on the "abc check" above the icons to the right.
> For someone with my "skills" [or lack] it makes my postings understandable after "proofing" what I type.
> Being "old school", I was taught to do this as a sign of respect to who I wanted communicate to. If someone can't "take the time", why would someone else want to answer?


If you download the Google Toolbar you will get a spell checker that works with every (so far) application I use including this one. And you get a link to UTube which is a hoot.

I did try not to be picky with TigerFan, but I could not understand what he was trying to say. And yet his last post was very well written. Curious.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

shadyridr said:


> The "idiot" that installed my 5 LNB dish was from Staten Island. My original installer and the guy who fixed the "idiots" install were from NJ.


Where in NJ? Why would I keep getting Staten Island installers? I would not expect NJ installers to be any better than their SI brethren.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

*rich584*

Your battle stations, were my combat support, The aircraft was designed with LRUs [line replaceable units]. While I didn't break in down to the tube/transistor/relay, that was bad, like you, had moments [min] to get it back on line and launched. The fallout from "my fun" could keep the shops busy for weeks. The upside was the aircraft with a bad engine, was my spare parts locker on the flight line next to me.

I think you're going down the road of "old war stories" that has no end.

I agree that RobertE should look into setting up himself in business.

OK: :backtotop

I welcome any and all PMs.


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## aim2pls (Jun 18, 2007)

rich584 said:


> Where in NJ? Why would I keep getting Staten Island installers? I would not expect NJ installers to be any better than their SI brethren.


is anything better in NJ (just kidding) ....


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## Michael H.. (May 31, 2007)

Jeremy W said:


> Not really ridiculous, but a DirecTV installer once told me that I should get a job as an installer, because I know more than most of the people he works with!


Subject: DTV dish do-it-yourself installation

Cost: <$100 materials

Labor: Set aside one weekend for the first installation

Specifics: Old 3LNB installation, but applicable to 5LNB AU9SDTV dish mounted in a very high wind region​3LNB hi-gain oversized dish, about 15% more surface area than AU9S, 2" diameter mast, same as AU9S, quad coax LNB no internal multiswitched outputs, same number as AU9S, AU9S with internal multiswitched outputs.​Dish located for unobstructed LOS, positioned at the roof apex, both for its structural stiffness characteristics, and to mitigate signal reflection/interference, won't reflect off of Basalt/Fe terrain, other structures or the roof itself​
Structure: dish support base bracket affixed to roof with7.5" length grade 8 hex bolts​dbl oversized washers​sandwiched about:​
1) base bracket​2) secondary .125" steel reinforcement plate to limit local bracket bolt head​deformation​3) exterior 2" x 8" pressure treated wood​4) hi-duro gaskets layered to conform to concrete tile interface​(uniform pressure distribution/tile protection/environmental seal)​silicone sealant in and around bolt holes​5) roof concrete tile​6) roof 5/8" plywood​assembly centered on​7) attic interior lateral 2" x 6" support adjacent/load pathed to roof truss​8) interior 2" x 8" pressure treated wood​9) interior .125" steel reinforcement plate​
dbl oversized washers​dbl redundant torqued/loc-tited hex nuts.​
Electrical:Grounding, quad RG6 coax weatherproof connectors, drip loops, protective flexhosing, tie-wraps 12" increments, strain-relief, quad coax into pvc conduit weather sealed service entrance cap, through pvc conduit vertically aligned "above roof aesthetic" and bracketed to interior attic roof truss, pvc pipe roof penetration through silicone boot/galvanized plate weather seal pipe penetration flashing, attic pvc conduit vented, bracketed 48" increments terminating at attic mounted 6 x 8 powered multiswitch, coax output homerun to single coax jacks feeding H10/67"DLP1080P/7.1THX and H20/52"LCD1080P/5.1 sets (when I add HR20(s), I'm going to really need FTM/SWM)​I used the two .125" reinforcement plates as templates in a clamped temporary drill fixture, to ensure that the four bolts would pass through the >6" roof mount assembly stack without diverging, so that the plate would fit over the bolts on the threaded end (had to open up the holes on the interior 2" x 8" by 1/8" to align slight skew)

I certainly did not run computational wind engineering cwe cfd analysis... (background in aerospace structures/mechanisms, environments/launch/ascent/on-orbit acoustic/vibration/loads analysis)
but I did a first order, ultra conservative ∞-Σ preliminary analysis, to be confident that wind and CTE deflection/distortion based signal losses, and "dish blowing off the roof" type scenarios were nixed
Though it doesn't take a rocket scientist (I are one) to figure out that this dish isn't going anywhere...

The competency of DTV installers is what it is, and it isn't going to change... unless it gets worse
Customers are not going to spend more on the installation than the equipment itself
What the DTV installer is hopefully qualified to provide is the "free" installation, though in many instances, evidently that is not the case.
And the more "elaborate" the installation, the less qualified the DTV installer is able to provide it, regardless of how much dinero you're willing to throw their way.
Few customers would require the level of installation above, I happen to be one of them.
Since I won't pay someone else to do it, and find it hard to envision that a DTV installer could provide it even if I were willing, I'm left with "if you want it done right..."

Even if I had scheduled the basic minimum installation, I would stand present during every minute of it, whether I am offending anyone or not, before I'd chance letting anyone f' up my house.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

All I can say is... :eek2:


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> *rich584*
> 
> Your battle stations, were my combat support, The aircraft was designed with LRUs [line replaceable units]. While I didn't break in down to the tube/transistor/relay, that was bad, like you, had moments [min] to get it back on line and launched. The fallout from "my fun" could keep the shops busy for weeks. The upside was the aircraft with a bad engine, was my spare parts locker on the flight line next to me.
> 
> ...


You know, we threw most of the drawers overboard. Had no place to keep them and could not have them flying around in bad weather. Your tax dollars at work, blub, blub, blub.


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## mx6bfast (Nov 8, 2006)

I got a gem of a tech this weekend.

A little backstory, when I upgraded my boxes I had ordered a 6x16 multiswitch. Each time somehow, somewhere the order always got changed to a 6x8 for my 9 runs. On the 5th visit a 6x16 was finally installed to replace my non-powered 6x8. I told the guy I had 9 cable runs and when he came back down he said he found 2 other ones. Confused I said ok. So I go up there and he removed the lines going into the Terk 5x8 (I purchased) and put those in the new multiswitch. Even worse he used the power connection from the Terk and didn't leave the power cable for the new Wineguard. I called him and left a few messages no response. And those things aren't easy to find.

So this weekend for the 6th visit I'm trying to get this resolved. Luckily he has a 25 volt power cable, which all I need is a 21 but it's working on the Terk, not the Wineguard. He then tells me that D* just launched 4 new birds in the past 2 months and new HD programming should be turned on in the middle of November. I just nod and act surprised. 

Then he asks about my antenna. I told him that I've been using OTA for over 4 years and I did have problems at first but got that fixed. He then tells me that I can do an OTA upgrade with him where they will install and tweak it so I can get all the local channels. I was just about to kick him in the nuts for being so stupid. To get rid of him I lied and said we do all of our local viewing from D*.


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## or270 (Feb 12, 2006)

Just spent over 2 hours on the phone with DirecTv, 2 calls and 4 different CSR's later got a Hr10-250 bought from eBay activated and listed as a owned received.

1st CSR
Activated with the old card from the person I bought it from, tried for a half-hour to get locals and and the box still thought it was in Florida.

Why we were wanting he said that there was a Meeting about the new Video on demand and should have it by the end of the year for the HR20-700 and said over 
700 movies a month for free.

Escalated to 2nd tier-
She was able to get it going, thanked her and ended the call.

Checked with Directv.com,HR10-250 was listed as leased, so another call-

Called and said at the voice prompt "access card department" waited 15 minutes on hold.

CSR- told her I wanted to change a leased receiver to owned, Placed on hold for 5 minutes she came back and said a supervisor would have to change it and I needed to Fax in a copy of the auction and .., I said that should not be necessary and I asked if this was the access card department she said no. I then asked to be switched to the access card department she said they will tell me the same thing.

Next CSR- I access if this was the access card department he said yes, told him what I needed to do, he said no problem will take a couple of minutes, Then he asked about the access card being the previous customer I said yes, He said he could change it to owned but if there was ever and audit(Like if the billed wasn't paid) on the previous user account that it might come up as a problem later, I said that I have a spare card from a old Tivo that I sold he said we could use that and it would not be any problem later, Real nice guy. So finally got everything done that I wanted.


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## clearchoice (Jul 26, 2007)

can't sleep so i've been reading this forum. after slogging through 8 pages of this thread all i can do is shake my head. a lot of speculation, very little knowledge.

as it would take me 6 hours to cut and paste responses to everything ridiculous i'll just add this little tidbit. probably 4 years ago now, i was still working for DNSC at the time, i went to a customer's house for a service call. he said he had bought this new entertainment center, put the components in the new spots, hooked everything up and it worked for a bit then quit. hadn't worked since.

ok no problem. wires in right holes? yep. i check signal strength at the dish, that's fine. connections, no corrosion. at this point i'm pretty puzzled. i check the wires themselves ... nope, squirrels haven't been chewing. no staples in line. finally i'm back inside. what's the problem? when the customer was screwing the wire back on to the box he bent over the copper conductor. 

had the box "worked for a bit then went out"? no, of course not. it had never worked, it had never had the slightest whisper of connectivity. customer lied to my face from the first 2 minutes i was in his house. moral to the story, never trust anything a customer says. he just wanted to avoid a charge for the service call. i think always wanting freebies was mentioned was it not?

one great way to get your service call closed as customer caused to ensure you're paying is to do something dumb then lie about it. we're not sympathetic.

and since i'm still not tired how about one real boner move on my part. back when i was brand new. i'm in the upstairs corner bedroom. i tell the customer they can have it in the left corner of the room, or in the center, or in the right corner. in the left corner they says! ok so i grab my drill, make a hole, go outside .... hmm, where the hell is the hole? oh i know! i drilled directly into the center of the chimeny stack. one of the square wood ones about 3 feet thick with 2 metal tubes inside. ok no problem ... tell the customer what happened, fake wall plate ... in the right corner they says! ok no problem, drill the hole, go outside ..... oh oh. where is the hole? oh i know! it's in the void in the front porch above the front door, only lucky me that area is closed off by the boards making up the ceiling above the front porch! second hole completely inaccessible! whooooo! add fake wall plate #2, drill hole in center (customer's 3rd choice of location of the 3) & finally make a hole that is accessible.

i still find it somewhat remarkable the patience of that customer, i thought that would surely be my last day on the job haha.

the long and the short of it is that this is a massively complicated job, despite what our electrician friend thinks about it. there are a vast number of things to know to get the job done in a timely fashion and to pay attention to if you want to make sure not to savage your customer's house. i can now do the job faster, with better quality, AND with better customer service, than 95% of the installation crew nation wide. i am that damn good. but even so i had a few complete moron episodes in the beginning. you cannot be taught to do this job, beyond largely irrelevant basics. new installers learn by doing. they learn by doing on *your house*. so be nice to them. if you're not, you're likely to get cancelled. they have a stressful life, they dont need to be yelled at by you also. and if you get the bright idea to yell at someone like me? haha, bad choice. if i decide the mailbox across the street isn't blocking your line of sight you're likely to get the dish above your front door and your new wires run through 1 inch holes. :lol:


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## Skooz (Jul 20, 2007)

My installer just didn't want to be at work that day. He kept finding reasons why he couldn't do the job and kept asking:

"Do you want to reschedule?"
"Do you want to reschedule?"
"Do you want to reschedule?"
"Do you want to reschedule?"
"Do you want to reschedule?"
"Do you want to reschedule?"

My answer was "no" every time.


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## patfan64 (Aug 25, 2004)

RobertE said:


> I know I'm taking it too personally here, but when someone takes shots at my current profession, how can I not take it personally and be offended?
> 
> What if the shoe was on the other foot?


You should try teaching. I hear more comments from friends and family members about how we are overpaid and how we don't teach the kids anything.

I'm right there with ya, Robert. I have NEVER had a bad experience with D* or any of their installers.

Keep up the good work!!!


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## DawgLink (Nov 5, 2006)

installer while he is looking at my tv - you want directv service, right?


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## Guesst925XTU (Jan 29, 2004)

During my HD upgrade, as I was getting my 5LNB, H20 and HR20 installed.

Oh those little boxes (BBCs) are just if you want international programming.

He then proceeded to throw all 3 them in the trash.


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## fluffybear (Jun 19, 2004)

There is no need to tweak the KA Band, that just comes in automatically!


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

fluffybear said:


> There is no need to tweak the KA Band, that just comes in automatically!


That's partially true. You peak 101 and 119, and everything else just falls into place.


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## aim2pls (Jun 18, 2007)

Jeremy W said:


> That's partially true. You peak 101 and 119, and everything else just falls into place.


M A Y B E


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## mx6bfast (Nov 8, 2006)

DawgLink said:


> installer while he is looking at my tv - you want directv service, right?


Here's your sign


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## bcrab (Mar 7, 2007)

You need TWO dish's one for D* and one pointing that way for locals.:nono:


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

bcrab said:


> You need TWO dish's one for D* and one pointing that way for locals.:nono:


In some markets that statement is 100% true.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

DawgLink said:


> installer while he is looking at my tv - you want directv service, right?


Common question.

I have a van with the big D* log on the side. 
I wear a shirt/jacket with a D* logo on the chest.
I also wear a hat with the D* logo on it.

People STILL ask when they come to the door "what do you want?"

Duh, I'm here to repo your stove. What do you think I'm here for?


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## AlbertZeroK (Jan 28, 2006)

bcrab said:


> You need TWO dish's one for D* and one pointing that way for locals.:nono:


This is actually true in some locations.


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## TigersFanJJ (Feb 17, 2006)

DawgLink said:


> installer while he is looking at my tv - you want directv service, right?


That's funny, but I can somewhat understand it.

I have lost count the times I have performed an install where the programming wasn't added to the account by the phone company that the customer ordered from.

I ask the customer, "What package did you order when you talked to the phone company?"

"I ordered this one right here," the customer says holding up a *DISH NETWORK* flyer that they got in the mail the day before. :nono2:


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Now that's... :lol: :lol:


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## ssddff (Jul 16, 2007)

My D* HD installer actually told me that HDMI cables don't transmit audio, just video like component and s-video. It is shocking that I know more than these installers and I am far from an expert.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> Now that's... :lol: :lol:


I can't believe this thread is still running.


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

From CSR: Yes it will be able to dial on your pulse dial line...


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

houskamp said:


> From CSR: Yes it will be able to dial on your pulse dial line...


Is there still a "pulse" only dial line anywhere?
While you may not have a touchtone phone [I use both BTW], aren't all of the phone systems now tone switching?


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## fluffybear (Jun 19, 2004)

Here is one I heard yesterday afternoon when the installer called to reschedule today's appointment for Tuesday!

"The FedEx truck broke down and they were not able to deliver my shipment of HD DVR's today"

5 minutes later, FedEx is at my door with other packages. BTW, There is only 1 FedEx driver for this entire town.


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## chris0 (Jun 25, 2007)

He could've been referring to the Big Rig truck that brings everything to your local FedEx center.


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> Is there still a "pulse" only dial line anywhere?
> While you may not have a touchtone phone [I use both BTW], aren't all of the phone systems now tone switching?


nope.. It's pulse dial only.. send touchtones and it will ignore you


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

houskamp said:


> nope.. It's pulse dial only.. send touchtones and it will ignore you


Then "nope" is really "yepper", and I thought I was out in the sticks...:lol:


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## cnmsales (Jan 9, 2007)

Back when I got my equipment installed what 4 mos ago the installer swore D* didnt have any new sats going up and the new HD would be delivered via what was already up there.


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## fluffybear (Jun 19, 2004)

chris0 said:


> He could've been referring to the Big Rig truck that brings everything to your local FedEx center.


:lol: FedEx doesn't have big rigs up this way. Big rigs in this area tend to have tree's laying on their backs.

Air packages destined for this area go to Grand Forks, ND than are put on Cessna 208A Caravan I (see photo) who hits a half dozen or so smaller areas like this. Plane arrives about 10:15 and the driver loads everything right in to the van (small one at that) and heads out from there.


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## aim2pls (Jun 18, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> Is there still a "pulse" only dial line anywhere?
> While you may not have a touchtone phone [I use both BTW], aren't all of the phone systems now tone switching?


consider this .... 1999( approx) .. massachusetts became the FIRST all dial state my town has been a 7 digit town (now 10) was 4 ... for about 6 years i think


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> Then "nope" is really "yepper", and I thought I was out in the sticks...:lol:


I'm right in town (500k in metro area) but my line is grandfathered in.. If I change it I can't get it back...


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## chris0 (Jun 25, 2007)

fluffybear said:


> :lol: FedEx doesn't have big rigs up this way. Big rigs in this area tend to have tree's laying on their backs.
> 
> Air packages destined for this area go to Grand Forks, ND than are put on Cessna 208A Caravan I (see photo) who hits a half dozen or so smaller areas like this. Plane arrives about 10:15 and the driver loads everything right in to the van (small one at that) and heads out from there.


well then,I guess he's a big fat liar! I live in an urban environment and sometimes forget that the way it is here isn't the way it is everywhere.:grin:


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## Ext 721 (Feb 26, 2007)

houskamp said:


> From CSR: Yes it will be able to dial on your pulse dial line...


That is correct.

It is able.

Why is that ridiculous?

What receiver do you HAVE?

Maybe the DSL is causing the problem...the D* receiver should make two attempts to dial...one in tone, and another in pulse.


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## Ext 721 (Feb 26, 2007)

clearchoice said:


> can't sleep so i've been reading this forum. after slogging through 8 pages of this thread all i can do is shake my head. a lot of speculation, very little knowledge.
> 
> as it would take me 6 hours to cut and paste responses to everything ridiculous i'll just add this little tidbit. probably 4 years ago now, i was still working for DNSC at the time, i went to a customer's house for a service call. he said he had bought this new entertainment center, put the components in the new spots, hooked everything up and it worked for a bit then quit. hadn't worked since.
> 
> ...


Reminds me of one job I was on. Lady insisted I put the cable in "where the other one is", I look...there's a gas line going in there. I tell her this, and she says so? that's where we want it" I tell her that it might cause an explosion, that I won't drill within 6 inches of an invisible rubber gas line. she says "I could get someone else to do it" and I said "lady, anyone retarded enough to drill a hole next to a gas line is someone you do NOT want working on your house."


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## Ext 721 (Feb 26, 2007)

rich584 said:


> I
> How much time should it take? Depends on the installer and how much wiring is involved. No more than two hours for the average installation, I would think. They have a digital meter that allows them to align the sat dish properly, so that part is pretty quick. 4 screws for the mounting plate. And the wiring. Simple.
> 
> "Professional Installation" indeed.
> ...


Try it. Drilling 4 holes in 4 walls, placing a screw anchor in vinyl siding every 5 feet, and having to do so at a second story level, programming 4 remotes to 4 tv's, locating the only spot on the damned property that can get signal, making 12 cables with 24 ends jsut the right length,running 3 phone lines because the other 3 rooms don't have one, running 2 ground wires, assembling a dish, and making it all look good, then spending 20 minutes on the phone, activating it all...explaining to soemone who doesn't know about it exactly what you're going to do, cutting open 4 boxes, carrying them in. Running through a 10 minute guided setup on each

no. shouldn't take any time at all. ha.

Maybe in your house, which you are intimately familiar with, you can do it that quick with one box.

The appropriate time is one box an hour. Hell, the telco expects the phone line guys to spend a half hour JUST on a single telephone wire.

And some telcos charge about $100 for that.


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## DishCSR (Jan 14, 2004)

RobertE said:


> Couple of other ones:
> 
> Q: Where does the tape go? A: There is no tape.
> 
> ...


roflmao


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## pierce3381 (Jun 26, 2007)

all these things listed above is why I choose to work for my current employer rather than be an installer. I'd much rather answer tech. questions and play with new toys than crawl in a nasty crawl space with dead animals and attics with roaches (this was one of my last installer experiances) Now I only install in my dish yard for testing or for company VP's I don't want to wear 2 tool belts. 1 for connectors, wrenches etc.. and one for bug sprays and mousetraps


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## hombresoto (Sep 10, 2006)

RobertE said:


> Of that $70, want to take a guess at how much I see? $15. Doesn't matter if I'm there 5 minutes or 5 hours.


Wow, $15? I thought my $30 was bad and completely not worth it, hence I only do HSP subbing on the 2 busiest days a week, 3 standard installs (no ka/ku's, they are not worth it given the time they take), 1 upgrade, and 1 service call.

I have no idea how you guys can make it.

MB 
MBAVCS, LLC


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## hombresoto (Sep 10, 2006)

rich584 said:


> $12.50 an hour. For "Professional" installation.


Even at an average of $30/hr for HSP work, I refuse to do ka/ku installs, but the cost of living is high in new england. I average $80/hr when I do my own sales/installs and every job is done PERFECT, or not at all. You get what you pay for. No custom work is free, I expect to get paid well for my knowledge and expertise.
MB 
MBAVCS, LLC


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## hombresoto (Sep 10, 2006)

rich584 said:


> Tried all that, didn't help. Don't see how they are overworked. Easy job compared to other jobs in that pay range. At least they aren't on an assembly line or doing anything more dangerous than climbing a ladder or spraying insecticides, etc.


Right. It's easy and safe climbing on steep roofs with snow and ice on them in the winter. Right. 12-14 hrs/day all summer and fall doesn't classify overworked, while family life suffers.
I would LOVE to know what you do. So?

MB 
MBAVCS, LLC


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

hombresoto said:


> Right. It's easy and safe climbing on steep roofs with snow and ice on them in the winter. Right. 12-14 hrs/day all summer and fall doesn't classify overworked, while family life suffers.
> I would LOVE to know what you do. So?
> 
> MB
> MBAVCS, LLC


A. If you are on a steep roof and working for someone who employs at least 7 people you are required by Federal Regulations, listed in the Federal Registry, to wear a safety belt attached to a secure point such as a chimney if you are to come within 4 feet of the edge of the roof.

B. If you are using a ladder, and the above criteria applies, you are required by those same regulations to secure the ladder at the top or have the ladder "footed" by another employee. I have never seen a situation where you can secure a ladder with one person, so it must be a two man job in the beginning at least.

C. If you are a private contractor working as a D* sub or a sub for a D* sub, I believe the responsibility is on D* or the sub to make you aware of Ladder and High Work Safety and the appropriate regulations. In any event, l believe the end responsibility lies with D*.

D. I spent 30 years working for a large chemical company and spent many of those years making sure our employees worked safely according to OSHA's regulations. Ladder Safety and High Work Safety are of great concern to OSHA. When I retired, I was responsible for the safety and health of over 100 workers daily.

E. At least you get to work outside. Try working in a chemical factory sometime. Filthy, dangerous, and I spent a lot of hours (12 to 16 per shift, time and a half over 8 hours) every week in that environment. When I was an electrician, I was deeply concerned about my safety (you only get electrocuted once) every day I went to work.

F. As to what I do now, I try to hit between 200 and 500 baseballs a day, weather permitting, watch a lot of TV and read a lot of books.

I know factory work is not for everybody, but to have a secure job and great benefits, you can't beat corporate life if you don't have a degree. Lots of stress the higher you go up the corporate ladder, but if you do your job well you get to retire at an early age (52 for me), meet women with degrees who make a lot of money and perhaps marry one. Our family income is over $200,000 a year and aside from teaching at a college, I have not worked since 1994.

I hope this answers your questions. Work safely and be well.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Ext 721 said:


> Reminds me of one job I was on. Lady insisted I put the cable in "where the other one is", I look...there's a gas line going in there. I tell her this, and she says so? that's where we want it" I tell her that it might cause an explosion, that I won't drill within 6 inches of an invisible rubber gas line. she says "I could get someone else to do it" and I said "lady, anyone retarded enough to drill a hole next to a gas line is someone you do NOT want working on your house."


A "massively complicated job"? :lol:


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## aim2pls (Jun 18, 2007)

hombresoto said:


> Even at an average of $30/hr for HSP work, I refuse to do ka/ku installs, but the cost of living is high in new england. I average $80/hr when I do my own sales/installs and every job is done PERFECT, or not at all. You get what you pay for. No custom work is free, I expect to get paid well for my knowledge and expertise.
> MB
> MBAVCS, LLC


80 per hour is the right / competitive rate for short jobs (same over here in north central mass)


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## hombresoto (Sep 10, 2006)

aim2pls said:


> 80 per hour is the right / competitive rate for short jobs (same over here in north central mass)


That is what I came to. Obviously jobs which stretch over several days will be less per hour. As i'm sure you know, there are significant expenses which drag that number down to an acceptable $60/hr, acceptable for me at least.

The funny thing is, lower middle class, blue collar customers in my experience appreciate the VALUE of a quality job done right, and the hard work it takes, more than the executive living in the million dollar home who expects everything done for free, and then acts like he/she is doing YOU a favor by giving you the business. This of course is not universal but applicable to 90% of these customers in my experience.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

hombresoto said:


> The funny thing is, lower middle class, blue collar customers in my experience appreciate the VALUE of a quality job done right, and the hard work it takes, more than the executive living in the million dollar home who expects everything done for free, and then acts like he/she is doing YOU a favor by giving you the business. This of course is not universal but applicable to 90% of these customers in my experience.


I think this is easily explained with "some know what working for a living is and others don't".


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## hombresoto (Sep 10, 2006)

rich584 said:


> A. If you are on a steep roof and working for someone who employs at least 7 people you are required by Federal Regulations, listed in the Federal Registry, to wear a safety belt attached to a secure point such as a chimney if you are to come within 4 feet of the edge of the roof.
> 
> B. If you are using a ladder, and the above criteria applies, you are required by those same regulations to secure the ladder at the top or have the ladder "footed" by another employee. I have never seen a situation where you can secure a ladder with one person, so it must be a two man job in the beginning at least.
> 
> ...


I sounds as if you have worked hard to achieve your current lifestyle. I respect that, as it seems to be the exception rather than the norm these days. As to working in a chemical factory, I worked in the bowels of nuclear submarines for 5 years and have experience with filthy, nasty work environments. I do my best to be safe on ladders, however it is cost prohibitive most of the year to hire a helper to stabilize a ladder for me, and difficult to find an individual who has the motivation to do anything more without constant complaints. I take these risks daily, but as I have grown older I tend to weight risk vs. reward on an increasingly regular basis. I do not carry my 40' ladder anymore, it's not safe with one person. Recently becoming a father also has something to do with this. I am willing to pass on a job where there is a high probability of injury.

Hit a couple balls for me.

Take Care
MS Bastianelli
MBAVCS, LLC


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## dmurphy (Sep 28, 2006)

When I moved into my current house, I had DirecTV's Mover Connection setup a new dish. Had the scheduled appointment with a triple-LNB dish and all that. My wife was here at the house, and I was out at Home Depot (where else does a new homeowner go?)... Keep in mind, at the time I had 4 TiVo's.

Anywho, the installer shows up and starts giving my wife some story about how the installation only covers a single line from the dish to one room, and the extra 3 rooms, plus the extra line in the first room, and the multiswitches, etc. were all extra money. He told her it was going to be about $500 (cash, of course) to complete the installation.

She called me on my cell, and on the drive home, I called DirecTV and explained the situation. When I got to the house, I jumped out of the car, handed the installer my phone and said "Someone wants to talk to you."

I don't know what the nice woman said from DirecTV, but I know she was hot under the collar. He went from "Well, they want all this extra stuff..." to "uh huh, yes, I see, uh huh, okay, sorry, well, I, um, okay, absolutely, sure."

He hung up, looked at me and said, "I don't know who you are, but they just told me to do whatever it is you want ... can you show me which rooms?"

Freakin' guy ... he saw a woman home alone and tried to scam her! It's just like the sharks at Jiffy Lube....


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## hombresoto (Sep 10, 2006)

dmurphy said:


> When I moved into my current house, I had DirecTV's Mover Connection setup a new dish. Had the scheduled appointment with a triple-LNB dish and all that. My wife was here at the house, and I was out at Home Depot (where else does a new homeowner go?)... Keep in mind, at the time I had 4 TiVo's.
> 
> Anywho, the installer shows up and starts giving my wife some story about how the installation only covers a single line from the dish to one room, and the extra 3 rooms, plus the extra line in the first room, and the multiswitches, etc. were all extra money. He told her it was going to be about $500 (cash, of course) to complete the installation.
> 
> ...


That's pretty bad, and a situation where the tech unsuccessfully (thank god) attempted to take your wife for a ride. I am willing to complete work I am contracted for, and included in the standard install, which is clearly defined. Granted I wouldn't be thrilled about running 4 extra lines for the 4 Tivos :lol: , but I would do it because I agreed to when I signed my contract. Some jobs are easy, some are not, some require custom work, some don't.

It's too bad there are so many bad apples giving us all a bad name.


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## DawgLink (Nov 5, 2006)

dmurphy said:


> When I moved into my current house, I had DirecTV's Mover Connection setup a new dish. Had the scheduled appointment with a triple-LNB dish and all that. My wife was here at the house, and I was out at Home Depot (where else does a new homeowner go?)... Keep in mind, at the time I had 4 TiVo's.
> 
> Anywho, the installer shows up and starts giving my wife some story about how the installation only covers a single line from the dish to one room, and the extra 3 rooms, plus the extra line in the first room, and the multiswitches, etc. were all extra money. He told her it was going to be about $500 (cash, of course) to complete the installation.
> 
> ...


My Ex-Girlfriend used to tell me all the time that she would get screwed in times like this (such as car problems, ext...) and I would call her crazy.

But, after being with her during several problems, I think she is actually correct. A lot of businesses will try anything for an extra buck and an innocent women by herself is a perfect time to try it out.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

hombresoto said:


> I sounds as if you have worked hard to achieve your current lifestyle. I respect that, as it seems to be the exception rather than the norm these days. As to working in a chemical factory, I worked in the bowels of nuclear submarines for 5 years and have experience with filthy, nasty work environments. I do my best to be safe on ladders, however it is cost prohibitive most of the year to hire a helper to stabilize a ladder for me, and difficult to find an individual who has the motivation to do anything more without constant complaints. I take these risks daily, but as I have grown older I tend to weight risk vs. reward on an increasingly regular basis. I do not carry my 40' ladder anymore, it's not safe with one person. Recently becoming a father also has something to do with this. I am willing to pass on a job where there is a high probability of injury.
> 
> Hit a couple balls for me.
> 
> ...


Glad you took my comments in the vein that I wrote them. Congrats on the baby.

Ladders are one of the most dangerous and least understood pieces of equipment a mechanic can use. I agree with your assessment of the possibility of getting a good helper. Whoever wrote "Good help is hard to get." was understating the difficulty of finding good reliable helpers. They are out there tho and can literally be a life saver.

I had a "Professional Satellite Installer" wire my house in 2002. Charged me $125 for the first hour and a little less for the rest of the time he spent with me. Total came to $650 and was well worth the money. I watched him and asked him questions about the equipment and the technology and can now wire a house for SD equipment. Looks pretty easy for the HD stuff too. My point is: that was 5 years ago. God knows what he is charging an hour now. You are probably not charging enough. From what I have heard about Mass, it is even more expensive to live there than NJ. Therefore, I would charge more.

By the way, people who live in those "million dollar" houses are usually up to their necks in debt. Them I would definitely charge more. What's a little more debt? If you think you're worth $80 an hour, you are undoubtedly not charging enough.

I recently took bids on a new roof for my house. Ranged from $4600 to $12,000. I asked the guy who bid the most how business was and he said he couldn't keep up with the jobs. I believe him. Probably works out to $10,000 profit on a house like mine.

Rich


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## aim2pls (Jun 18, 2007)

hombresoto said:


> That is what I came to. Obviously jobs which stretch over several days will be less per hour. As i'm sure you know, there are significant expenses which drag that number down to an acceptable $60/hr, acceptable for me at least.
> 
> The funny thing is, lower middle class, blue collar customers in my experience appreciate the VALUE of a quality job done right, and the hard work it takes, more than the executive living in the million dollar home who expects everything done for free, and then acts like he/she is doing YOU a favor by giving you the business. This of course is not universal but applicable to 90% of these customers in my experience.


you've had then stop payment on your check too huh <lol> or refused to pay when your done .... with the PERFECT install completed


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## aim2pls (Jun 18, 2007)

rich584 said:


> Glad you took my comments in the vein that I wrote them. Congrats on the baby.
> 
> Ladders are one of the most dangerous and least understood pieces of equipment a mechanic can use. I agree with your assessment of the possibility of getting a good helper. Whoever wrote "Good help is hard to get." was understating the difficulty of finding good reliable helpers. They are out there tho and can literally be a life saver.
> 
> ...


Have to agree with you on mass being more expensive than NJ .. unfortunately there are a lot of "cheap" installers .. besides D* and E* factory branches ... when I do residential systems (very few btw) it's more a referral (aka favor)

"god I love commercial work" !!!!!!


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## rirwin1983 (Dec 11, 2005)

Jeremy W said:


> Not really ridiculous, but a DirecTV installer once told me that I should get a job as an installer, because I know more than most of the people he works with!


i 2nd that, i get told that everytime i "have" to have them come out as they woulnt just ship what i need.


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## dmurphy (Sep 28, 2006)

DawgLink said:


> My Ex-Girlfriend used to tell me all the time that she would get screwed in times like this (such as car problems, ext...) and I would call her crazy.
> 
> But, after being with her during several problems, I think she is actually correct. A lot of businesses will try anything for an extra buck and an innocent women by herself is a perfect time to try it out.


I always thought it wasn't true too -- but it really, truly is. I've seen it all over the place -- even when it comes to buying appliances!

It's really crazy - it's a shame there are so many dishonest people around ....


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## dmurphy (Sep 28, 2006)

hombresoto said:


> That's pretty bad, and a situation where the tech unsuccessfully (thank god) attempted to take your wife for a ride. I am willing to complete work I am contracted for, and included in the standard install, which is clearly defined. Granted I wouldn't be thrilled about running 4 extra lines for the 4 Tivos :lol: , but I would do it because I agreed to when I signed my contract. Some jobs are easy, some are not, some require custom work, some don't.
> 
> It's too bad there are so many bad apples giving us all a bad name.


I understand that it's a lot of work -- I really do. But DirecTV told me it would all be covered... from my point of view, that's an issue between the installer and DirecTV -- not me.

The point of the Movers' program is to keep a DirecTV customer from churning to cable/FiOS/Dish/what-have-you. And the way I see it - if they want my business, they can install it for me. As is said to the CSR's so many times ... "Cablevision would do it for me."


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## igator99 (Jul 28, 2006)

hombresoto said:


> That is what I came to. Obviously jobs which stretch over several days will be less per hour. As i'm sure you know, there are significant expenses which drag that number down to an acceptable $60/hr, acceptable for me at least.
> 
> The funny thing is, lower middle class, blue collar customers in my experience appreciate the VALUE of a quality job done right, and the hard work it takes, more than the executive living in the million dollar home who expects everything done for free, and then acts like he/she is doing YOU a favor by giving you the business. This of course is not universal but applicable to 90% of these customers in my experience.


First let me say that you guys are not paid enough for these jobs. The sat and cable companies are to blame for this. D* promises you the moon and stars for free and the average person doesn't know about complications like trees etc... They figure you are to lazy to do the job and then if you explain that this is a custom job and you need to be paid more money they think you are trying to rip you off.

Now in my area the majority are rude, lazy and downright scary. You get what you pay for. I love the dude that told me the screws for the LNB arm are not necessary. I politely told him to put them back in.

You are right in that usually the rich (The ones born into money) are the worst. We use to have this huge charter boat that carried 30 people for a 16 hour fishing trip for $50.00 a head. The ones that could barley afford the fee or the middle class were over joyed at catching enough red snapper to fill their ice chests. A couple of rich snob groups wanted personal deckhands to bait their hooks and run back and forth to bring them a beer and that was all for $50.00! Looking back we were a great bargain. Those folks usually returned home with about 100 lbs of red snapper. Well worth the 50.00 fee. The rich ones wanted a few Marlins also to put on the wall. :lol:


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## HDTVFanAtic (Jul 23, 2005)

I'll be there today.


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