# Satellite HD and Large UHD TV’s ... do you do it?



## bmcleod (May 13, 2006)

I'm posting this question in the general area because even though I currently have Dish, I'd like to get input from both Dish and DirectTV camps.

I recently have had the opportunity to watch some Dish HD channels, NBC via the local affiliate KCRA, USA, TNT, FX, HGTV, on a Sony 85x900F UHD TV (85") fed by a Hopper 3 or Joey 4K. The Sony is an LED with local dimming and supposed to have one of the best upscaling engines available using the X1 Extreme processor. I find the picture far inferior to my 9 year old Mitsubishi WD-73738, a 73" HD rear projection model that's always looked very good with any kind of 1080 source. I'd say the Sony's upscaled picture is bad enough that I'd not want to watch it very long. I have a very large room and sit about 12-13' away from the screen, and even though 73" is large, I'd like something larger, and there are now UHD's like the Sony available.

*So, who's using a large UHD TV with their Dish or DTV HD programming, and how do you like it? *I know size is relative and dependent on distance, so if you feel your screen is large please chime in. *What provider are you using? What UHD TV?* Is the TV doing the upscaling or something external (like your receiver)? *Most of all are are you happy with the picture?*

I'm trying to understand if I'm fighting a losing battle with upscaled HD, or maybe DirectTV would do a better job, or the Sony's just not as good as it's cracked up to be? (or it needs some tweaking). I'd appreciate any and all input from those who actually watch satellite HD on a 4K TV (like many I have no option for cable). Thanks for your thoughts and opinions. -Bruce


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

Was the Sony XBR-85X900F calibrated?


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

bmcleod said:


> I'm posting this question in the general area because even though I currently have Dish, I'd like to get input from both Dish and DirectTV camps.
> 
> I recently have had the opportunity to watch some Dish HD channels, NBC via the local affiliate KCRA, USA, TNT, FX, HGTV, on a Sony 85x900F UHD TV (85") fed by a Hopper 3 or Joey 4K. The Sony is an LED with local dimming and supposed to have one of the best upscaling engines available using the X1 Extreme processor. I find the picture far inferior to my 9 year old Mitsubishi WD-73738, a 73" HD rear projection model that's always looked very good with any kind of 1080 source. I'd say the Sony's upscaled picture is bad enough that I'd not want to watch it very long. I have a very large room and sit about 12-13' away from the screen, and even though 73" is large, I'd like something larger, and there are now UHD's like the Sony available.
> 
> ...


If you get a chance again to watch the Sony, try going to You Tube and watch some 4k videos and some HD videos and see how that looks to you.


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

jimmie57 said:


> If you get a chance again to watch the Sony, try going to You Tube and watch some 4k videos and some HD videos and see how that looks to you.


He said he's in an area without a cable option, so chances are if he has a broadband option, it's probably DSL speeds that are too slow for 4K streaming via YouTube, so the dynamic bitrate will kick in and dip the video to SD quality, while satellite broadband's "unlimited" options force streaming content to be SD quality.

For places like this, it's either 4K Bluray, or the UHD content on Dish or DirecTV if you want to see true UHD content.

Dish and DirecTV both have UHD content on demand that's delivered via satellite pushes, so you won't tie up your internet connection. However if you're in one of the areas where even DSL isn't an option, that might not be avalable since it needs an internet connection to "phone home" the orders.

Dish has a part time UHD channel used for events like the Olympics and World Cup and special programming like BBC's Blue Planet and Planet Earth.

DirecTV has 3 UHD channels, 104 DTV4K carries various entertainment and documentary programming, 105 CINE4K is used for PPV Movies and the occasional live event if channel 106 is in use for something else, and 106 LIVE4K is used for live events like sports and UFC PPVs. The 4K content is in Select and higher, but for live events you need to subscribe to a package that contains the channel providing the coverage. (i.e. Entertainment for FS1 and NBCSN games, Choice for MLB Network games, Xtra for NHL Network and NBA TV games, etc)


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

Kyl - if you have something that can simulate POTS (using a modem) - they can phone home just fine. No broadband required.


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

scooper said:


> Kyl - if you have something that can simulate POTS (using a modem) - they can phone home just fine. No broadband required.


The HR54 and HS17 doesn't have a phone connection, the only way they can "phone home" is via an internet connection. Which would be a problem if you're in an area where broadband isn't available at all.

The HR44 has a phone line, but outside of existing customers where your 4K content is limited to VOD, they do not provide it for new 4K installations.


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## bmcleod (May 13, 2006)

So I tried to be clear, but I may have been too wordy. I'm interested in how satellite HD looks to those with large UHD TV's. I do have 4K Blu-ray, but most of my daily watching is with Dish, local/national network news, prime time networks, 'cable channels' etc. I'm not trying to judge UHD content because I can't get much of it on Dish, and I currently can't stream it. My rural wireless ISP currently delivers 6 Mbps, but says 'maybe this year' to faster speeds.

_How do your UHD TVs look when you're watching Dish or DirectTV native HD programs? Do you like it?_


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

bmcleod said:


> My rural wireless ISP currently delivers 6 Mbps, but says 'maybe this year' to faster speeds.


Yep, one of my friends in California near Madera has a similar thing. It's decent for general use, but once someone in the house tries to use Netflix, someone gets home and every app on their phone starts syncing with the cloud at the same time, or Windows 10 decides it's time to download a multi-gig update, it's impossible to talk to him on Skype/Discord and he pings out of any online game.

6 Mbps will get Netflix in "Super HD", if no one else is using the internet at the same time, but it's way too slow for 4K.



bmcleod said:


> How do your UHD TVs look when you're watching Dish or DirectTV native HD programs? Do you like it?


It really varies based on how good your TV or AV receiver is at upscaling content, the size of the TV, and the original quality of the channel you're watching. Like if you have a 50 inch screen you might not notice as much of a difference compared to what you would see with a 75+ inch screen. 1080i channels will probably upscale better than 720p channels, and DirecTV's 1080i channels might appear better if Dish is still doing 1440x1080i on their 1080i channels.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

Oh - so you're talking about DirectTV receivers that they don't have modem ports any more. Well, Dish receivers still have modem ports so you can see Caller ID on POTS lines - or in my case - over an ATA for a VoIP service.

For your Direct TV receivers - sounds like you would need a dialup connection to the Internet that can be "shared". Haven't tried this with Win10, but it worked fine with Win98, Win NT, Win 2000, Win XP, Vista, And I'm pretty sure it can be made to work over Win7-Win10 as well. Then there are ways to use Linux computers as the Internet dialup gateway.

There are satellite Internet providers, (we all know the disadvantages of that), or you could use your cell service (using your phone as a hot spot).


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

While this doesn't apply to the OP's case since he has a wireless ISP that should be good enough. Doing that with dial up would do more harm than good, especially with Genies.

The callback isn't in realtime, and if you don't have an always on internet connection, the VOD selections don't populate, so you would need it running 24/7. Plus the Genie might break the connection when it attempts to automatically download VOD content for series that are set to all channels and a new episode premieres on VOD before the linear airing and skip recording the actual linear airing because it thinks it already got the episode via an in progress VOD download that will take at least an entire day on dialup. There's also a bunch of internet powered interactive features like enhanced Score Guide, ESPN Video, Smart Search, and interactive channels that automatically attempt to preload content in the background as soon as you turn to the channel.

Also, since this is far from an officially supported solution, the initial activation would indicate that there is no internet connection, so the ability to purchase content would be disabled. You would have to set it up after the fact, and then call a CSR to get them to authorize the Genie for PPV/VOD purchases.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

bmcleod said:


> _How do your UHD TVs look when you're watching Dish or DirectTV native HD programs? Do you like it?_


To answer your question I'm a 23 year DIRECTV customer. My 4K setup is a HR54-200 connected to a C61K-700 connected to a Sony STR-ZA5000ES AVR connected to a Sony XBR-55X900C 4K Ultra HDTV. The TV has been professionally calibrated and does the upscaling. Picture quality with DIRECTV is excellent. Depending on the source material being broadcast some SD can be near DVD quality. Again, depending on the source material being broadcast HD can be near Blu-ray quality. And 4K broadcasting is noticeably better than HD broadcasts.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

MysteryMan said:


> Was the Sony XBR-85X900F calibrated?


For what the Sony's cost you'd think they wouldn't need to be calibrated. My Samsungs have all worked well out of the box.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

bmcleod said:


> So I tried to be clear, but I may have been too wordy. I'm interested in how satellite HD looks to those with large UHD TV's. I do have 4K Blu-ray, but most of my daily watching is with Dish, local/national network news, prime time networks, 'cable channels' etc. I'm not trying to judge UHD content because I can't get much of it on Dish, and I currently can't stream it. My rural wireless ISP currently delivers 6 Mbps, but says 'maybe this year' to faster speeds.
> 
> _How do your UHD TVs look when you're watching Dish or DirectTV native HD programs? Do you like it?_


Largest set I have is a 65 inch Samsung JS8500. I just watch sports on D* and I am pleased with the upscaling on ball games. I realize a 4K feed would be a lot better than what D* presently puts out for sports (sports I'm interested in, soccer and golf don't interest me at all) but I have to say the PQ is quite acceptable.

I tried a 65" Sony 850 (don't remember if it was a "C" or a "D") before I bought the Samsung set (first 4K set) and was very disappointed. I've had a lot of Sony's and was never disappointed until the 850. That wretched thing cost almost as much as the JS8500 and the Samsung put out a gorgeous picture right off the bat. It still runs well without any changes in the menu as far as PQ goes.

I gotta admit, I'm still kinda stunned by the Sony 850. The thing was awful.

Did you even try a Samsung? Those QLEDs...are great, I think. Don't own one but if I have an excuse that will be the next set.

Rich


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

A modest sized UHD TV, 43" Sammy bought a year and a half ago. Picture: excellent UHD and HD. When my large plasma dies, I will replace it with a 60-65" or so OLED in all likelihood.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

Rich said:


> For what the Sony's cost you'd think they wouldn't need to be calibrated. My Samsungs have all worked well out of the box.
> 
> Rich


TV's need to be calibrated because they are factory set to look good in brightly lit showrooms. My Sony XBR-55X900C didn't look bad out of the box either but there was a very noticeable improvement after the tech calibrated it.


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## glrush (Jun 29, 2002)

I have 3 LG OLED TV's (a 2018 77". and 2017 65" and 55"). The upscaling on DirecTV can look anywhere from amazing to meh (SD on the LG TV's aren't that great, IMO but native HD content usually looks great). 

As far as getting a TV calibrated, I have found that while getting your set professionally calibrated can help you wring every bit of performance out of your set, I can get pretty close by just looking for reviews on your model or on other sites and see where people who have had them calibrated set them. Make sure you write your settings sown before you start so you can get back to a safe spot just in case. 

Again, I have DirecTV not Dish but would imagine there would not be too much difference, if any, on the way your set handles upscaling.


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## AZ. (Mar 27, 2011)

I have Direct TV on a older Sony 4k 75" TV......It looks great, even when its upscaling.....I just invited a beautiful woman over the other morning to watch the soccer game......She was very impressed how nice it looked.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Laxguy said:


> A modest sized UHD TV, 43" Sammy bought a year and a half ago. Picture: excellent UHD and HD. When my large plasma dies, I will replace it with a 60-65" or so OLED in all likelihood.


I had a bad experience with an LG a couple years ago. Not sure if the OLEDs have the same problem, but I don't want to buy one and find out it does.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

glrush said:


> I have 3 LG OLED TV's (a 2018 77". and 2017 65" and 55"). The upscaling on DirecTV can look anywhere from amazing to meh (SD on the LG TV's aren't that great, IMO but native HD content usually looks great).
> 
> As far as getting a TV calibrated, I have found that while getting your set professionally calibrated can help you wring every bit of performance out of your set, I can get pretty close by just looking for reviews on your model or on other sites and see where people who have had them calibrated set them. Make sure you write your settings sown before you start so you can get back to a safe spot just in case.
> 
> Again, I have DirecTV not Dish but would imagine there would not be too much difference, if any, on the way your set handles upscaling.


Perhaps you can answer a question I have about the LGs. Does "red" look a bit off, kinda more "scarlet" than "red"? I liked the LG set I bought in 2015 but the way it rendered red bothered me.

Rich


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

With the priced being charged for higher end TVs I don't understand why they don't factory calibrate them. Apple is able to factory calibrate the display of every one of the roughly quarter billion iPhones, iPads, iMacs, etc. they sell every year, there's no reason TV OEMs can't do it.


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## glrush (Jun 29, 2002)

Rich said:


> Perhaps you can answer a question I have about the LGs. Does "red" look a bit off, kinda more "scarlet" than "red"? I liked the LG set I bought in 2015 but the way it rendered red bothered me.
> 
> Rich


I've not seen that on my screens. I am not a big fan of the LG LCD displays; I have a 2009 1080p Sammy 53" that I use in a bedroom that still looks great and if I was gonna get a LCD, I'd go with a Sammy. The new Q9 is pricey, but it is a fabulous display.


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## bmcleod (May 13, 2006)

Thanks for all the reports, it sounds like generally most satellite HD upscales pretty well to UHD. I can more fairly evaluate the Sony now. When I first unpacked it, the Credenza I'm building was occupied by my aging 73" Mits, so I sat the Sony on the floor in the middle of the room. When I turned it on I was looking at a very large display (16% bigger than the already big Mits), sitting nearly 50% closer than its intended location, it was a very analytical viewing. Then we moved it into the guest room while I finished working on the cabinet, I only turned it on once and again was just a few feet away. Without a realistic evaluation I began to worry.

Though the Credenza isn't completed, I've loaded the gear up for a test run and now everything is sitting in its final location. Dish HD now looks very good, a network show on the DVR looked excellent, the good and the bad are that variations in source quality are much more apparent. With the Mits there was only a slight (but noticeable) improvement watching local channels OTA-I have a good antenna and a straight shot at the transmitters-now OTA is clearly superior, so much so I had to configure ARC right away.

I finally caught Dish channel 540 broadcasting UHD ... yes World Cup, it's certainly the best quality picture I've seen on Dish, wish it was on the air more often. I've also watched an HD Blu-ray (Planet Earth) which look better than ever, and my first UHD disks looked the best I've ever seen-years 1 & 2 of Harry Potter-and the new speaker locations made the DTS 7.1 soundtrack as good as it gets!

Executive summary ... the Sony's amazing! ... crisis averted.



MysteryMan said:


> To answer your question I'm a 23 year DIRECTV customer. My 4K setup is a HR54-200 connected to a C61K-700 connected to a Sony STR-ZA5000ES AVR connected to a Sony XBR-55X900C 4K Ultra HDTV. The TV has been professionally calibrated and does the upscaling. Picture quality with DIRECTV is excellent. Depending on the source material being broadcast some SD can be near DVD quality. Again, depending on the source material being broadcast HD can be near Blu-ray quality. And 4K broadcasting is noticeably better than HD broadcasts.


I have a feeling DirectTV has an edge in picture quality, though I've been with Dish about 15 years, and have been very happy with their equipment, maybe it's time to check out the other guys. How regularly is UHD material available? I know there are 3 channels, but are they on all the time?

I have yet to have a set professionally calibrated, though I've put effort into getting it right with DVE and the like, I'm following the 900F thread on AVS now. However I'm a believer that you will get the best possible pic with a pro, like any trade they know the details and how to get the best out of your set.



Rich said:


> Largest set I have is a 65 inch Samsung JS8500. I just watch sports on D* and I am pleased with the upscaling on ball games. I realize a 4K feed would be a lot better than what D* presently puts out for sports (sports I'm interested in, soccer and golf don't interest me at all) but I have to say the PQ is quite acceptable.
> 
> I tried a 65" Sony 850 (don't remember if it was a "C" or a "D") before I bought the Samsung set (first 4K set) and was very disappointed. I've had a lot of Sony's and was never disappointed until the 850. That wretched thing cost almost as much as the JS8500 and the Samsung put out a gorgeous picture right off the bat. It still runs well without any changes in the menu as far as PQ goes.
> 
> ...


Samsung was 2nd on my list, the 82" Q6F I think? Looked really good (and less expensive), but the local dimming, X1 Extreme, and sheer size of the Sony won me over. It was great to have so many choices over 80" this year, 5 or 6 I think.



glrush said:


> I have 3 LG OLED TV's (a 2018 77". and 2017 65" and 55"). The upscaling on DirecTV can look anywhere from amazing to meh (SD on the LG TV's aren't that great, IMO but native HD content usually looks great).
> 
> As far as getting a TV calibrated, I have found that while getting your set professionally calibrated can help you wring every bit of performance out of your set, I can get pretty close by just looking for reviews on your model or on other sites and see where people who have had them calibrated set them. Make sure you write your settings sown before you start so you can get back to a safe spot just in case.
> 
> Again, I have DirecTV not Dish but would imagine there would not be too much difference, if any, on the way your set handles upscaling.


Wow! That 77" LG OLED's a beaut! My room can be fairly bright during the day (though we have a blackout screen outside that lowers over the windows). I think most OLEDs would be too reflective and not quite bright enough for me, yours was the only one big enough for my room, size and lower cost won out too.

I'm going to give some tweaking a try (with knowledge and settings from the AVS thread), but DV & HDR makes their own settings on the fly, so really more of a starting point.

Thanks for everyone's input ... I'll be checking out DTV too.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

bmcleod said:


> I have a feeling DirectTV has an edge in picture quality, though I've been with Dish about 15 years, and have been very happy with their equipment, maybe it's time to check out the other guys. How regularly is UHD material available? I know there are 3 channels, but are they on all the time?
> 
> I have yet to have a set professionally calibrated, though I've put effort into getting it right with DVE and the like, I'm following the 900F thread on AVS now. However I'm a believer that you will get the best possible pic with a pro, like any trade they know the details and how to get the best out of your set.


Channel 104 DTV4K is basically 24/7. It broadcasts human interest material. There are occasional brief pauses between broadcasts. Channel 105 Cine4K is basically 24/7. It broadcasts 4K PPV Movies. There are occasional brief pauses between broadcasts. Channel 106 Live4K is basically part time. It broadcasts live events. While I believe in the saying "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder." it amazes me how people spend the amount of money on their HDTVs and don't bring out their full potential by having them calibrated. Having your set calibrated by a pro is your best option but I realize not everyone can afford to do so. That said, I recommend using a calibration disc. There are several to choose from. For the novice I recommend using the "Monster HDTV Calibration Wizard". It focuses on the basics (True Black, True White, Color, Sharpness, ect.). For the more advanced user I recommend using "Spears & Munsil HD Benchmark 2nd Edition". It's the next best thing to having your TV professionally calibrated.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

MysteryMan said:


> TV's need to be calibrated because they are factory set to look good in brightly lit showrooms. My Sony XBR-55X900C didn't look bad out of the box either but there was a very noticeable improvement after the tech calibrated it.


The Sony 850 I bought cost almost 2 grand. For that price I'd think the set would have been damn near perfect out of the box. The Samsung JS8500 was and still has had no changes to the Picture settings. All of our Samsungs have been used as they came out of the box, all four of the 4K sets. The cost of having a set calibrated on top of the cost of these sets is too much for me...it's not the money, it's the principal. If a guy can come out and using a meter calibrate a set why can't the makers have those same settings on the new in the box sets? Samsung certainly seems to be able to do that. All the Sonys I've had have been used as they came out of the box, then I get the 850 and it's...awful. When I returned it to Best Buy the manager told me they (Sonys) all have to be calibrated. Not sure he knew what he was talking about or if he was being apologetic. I know all the Samsung sets are shipped in a mode where they can be used in a showroom under different conditions than we'd see at home, I get that. But Samsungs come with a "showroom" or "home" option (not sure of the exact wording) and there is a vast difference. Set one to "home" and you're good to go.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

glrush said:


> I've not seen that on my screens. I am not a big fan of the LG LCD displays; I have a 2009 1080p Sammy 53" that I use in a bedroom that still looks great and if I was gonna get a LCD, I'd go with a Sammy. The new Q9 is pricey, but it is a fabulous display.


It was a 4K LG, just not an OLED. Nice, stable picture. Saw no juddering. Saw no real "red" either. Aren't all these sets LCDs? I've only seen the QLEDs in showrooms but they do look great. A QLED would be my next set were one to fail.

Rich


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Laxguy said:


> A modest sized UHD TV, 43" Sammy bought a year and a half ago. Picture: excellent UHD and HD. When my large plasma dies, I will replace it with a 60-65" or so OLED in all likelihood.


I mis-typed. It is a QLED I am likely to buy when the plasma dies. I've no interest in the LG line for some unknown reason.


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

Rich said:


> *The Sony 850 I bought cost almost 2 grand. For that price I'd think the set would have been damn near perfect out of the box.* The Samsung JS8500 was and still has had no changes to the Picture settings. All of our Samsungs have been used as they came out of the box, all four of the 4K sets. The cost of having a set calibrated on top of the cost of these sets is too much for me...it's not the money, it's the principal. *If a guy can come out and using a meter calibrate a set why can't the makers have those same settings on the new in the box sets? * Samsung certainly seems to be able to do that. All the Sonys I've had have been used as they came out of the box, then I get the 850 and it's...awful. When I returned it to Best Buy the manager told me they (Sonys) all have to be calibrated. Not sure he knew what he was talking about or if he was being apologetic. *I know all the Samsung sets are shipped in a mode where they can be used in a showroom under different conditions than we'd see at home, I get that.* But Samsungs come with a "showroom" or "home" option (not sure of the exact wording) and there is a vast difference. Set one to "home" and you're good to go.
> 
> Rich


I agree, for the amount of money we spend on these TVs they should come calibrated from the factory. They should send a special model for the show rooms, all other ones should come calibrated in the box. Imagine if you bought a car and had to have it tuned up before you could get the full use out of it?


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## bmcleod (May 13, 2006)

MysteryMan said:


> Channel 104 DTV4K is basically 24/7. It broadcasts human interest material. There are occasional brief pauses between broadcasts. Channel 105 Cine4K is basically 24/7. It broadcasts 4K PPV Movies. There are occasional brief pauses between broadcasts. Channel 106 Live4K is basically part time. It broadcasts live events. While I believe in the saying "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder." it amazes me how people spend the amount of money on their HDTVs and don't bring out their full potential by having them calibrated. Having your set calibrated by a pro is your best option but I realize not everyone can afford to do so. That said, I recommend using a calibration disc. There are several to choose from. For the novice I recommend using the "Monster HDTV Calibration Wizard". It focuses on the basics (True Black, True White, Color, Sharpness, ect.). For the more advanced user I recommend using "Spears & Munsil HD Benchmark 2nd Edition". It's the next best thing to having your TV professionally calibrated.


Thanks for the recap on the DTV UHD channels, that will help keep my expectations in line. The next time I go to Costco and they try to sell me Direct I might let them (usually I won't play their 'what's your cable bill now' game).

The DVE I referred to above is a calibration disk "Digital Video Essentials" by Joe Kane, I've used it successfully in the past, and will probably start with it. I've heard good things about the Spears & Munsil, haven't heard about the Monster, Disney WoW gets good marks too, but kinda pricey. Several have posted their settings in the 900F at AVS, I may try some of those too.



Rich said:


> The Sony 850 I bought cost almost 2 grand. For that price I'd think the set would have been damn near perfect out of the box. The Samsung JS8500 was and still has had no changes to the Picture settings. All of our Samsungs have been used as they came out of the box, all four of the 4K sets. The cost of having a set calibrated on top of the cost of these sets is too much for me...it's not the money, it's the principal.
> ...


So I might agree with you that one shouldn't have to get their TV calibrated to get a good picture, and I think that most of the sets today-when the proper setting is chosen-look pretty good out of the box (your 850 experience not withstanding).

Should the manufactures calibrate for a pitch black room? Isn't that the ideal situation? Do they expect you'll have a bias light and bump for that? Maybe they assume you'll watch mostly during the day? My point being that everyone's situation is different, and any manufactures setting will be a compromise for someone.

That doesn't even take preference into account, with my Mits I dialed it in pretty well in a custom mode for watching movies. I thought it looked pretty good and had decent blacks, contrast, and colors ... my wife however liked it brighter. Fortunately she could choose another picture mode, and I could go back to my custom settings. My point here is that if the manufacture chose the perfect compromise above, it wouldn't be perfect for everyone. Samsung makes a good set, but no ones perfect.

So to get the 'best' picture, in your home, your lighting-seating-viewing conditions, I believe that will take some calibration. I might be satisfied with settings I can find in a forum, or what I can obtain with a calibration disk, but @MysteryMan is more particular and wants his setup to look as good as it possibly can ... call in the pro. Nothing wrong with any choice, they're our TV's to enjoy how we see fit.



Laxguy said:


> I mis-typed. It is a QLED I am likely to buy when the plasma dies. I've no interest in the LG line for some unknown reason.


I think Samsung would be happy for you to be confusing QLED with OLED. When you're ready to buy I'd consider all the sets that meet your needs and budget, a lot of good choices out there.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

OLED is far superior to QLED, which is basically marketing bull**** for a typical LCD TV with LED backlight. It uses some quantum dots to increase the color range slightly, but it still suffers from all the same problems that all LCD based TVs do, the lack of proper blacks. Unless you always watch in a fairly bright room, an OLED will look so much better than any LCD/LED TV possibly could you'll be kicking yourself for paying OLED prices for a crappy QLED.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

TheRatPatrol said:


> I agree, for the amount of money we spend on these TVs they should come calibrated from the factory.


That would be futile. Every home has a different viewing environment. That viewing environment dictates the calibrating process. There's no one size fits all when it comes to calibrating a TV.


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

MysteryMan said:


> That would be futile. Every home has a different viewing environment. That viewing environment dictates the calibrating process. There's no one size fits all when it comes to calibrating a TV.


I see your points, I didn't think about all the different viewing scenarios. Thanks


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Laxguy said:


> I mis-typed. It is a QLED I am likely to buy when the plasma dies. I've no interest in the LG line for some unknown reason.


The plasma will outlast you and the picture will degrade so slowly you won't notice it. I just got rid of 9 plasmas, still have one 42" 1080p plasma. That's the only plasma that still has a decent picture.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

TheRatPatrol said:


> I agree, for the amount of money we spend on these TVs they should come calibrated from the factory. They should send a special model for the show rooms, all other ones should come calibrated in the box. *Imagine if you bought a car and had to have it tuned up before you could get the full use out of it?*


Yup, my feelings exactly.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

bmcleod said:


> Thanks for the recap on the DTV UHD channels, that will help keep my expectations in line. The next time I go to Costco and they try to sell me Direct I might let them (usually I won't play their 'what's your cable bill now' game).
> 
> The DVE I referred to above is a calibration disk "Digital Video Essentials" by Joe Kane, I've used it successfully in the past, and will probably start with it. I've heard good things about the Spears & Munsil, haven't heard about the Monster, Disney WoW gets good marks too, but kinda pricey. Several have posted their settings in the 900F at AVS, I may try some of those too.
> 
> ...


I have no idea what parameters Samsung uses, all I know is I have several new 4K sets and none of them has a picture that needs calibration...I think (and isn't what we each think the most important thing? This is all subjective after all is said and done.). What kills me about calibrations is at the end you usually hear something like, "It will take you a few weeks to get used to the PQ". In a few weeks you can get used to anything.

I have not seen either a QLED or an OLED in a home, only in stores. I have seen them next to each other in stores and didn't see much difference. I just looked at prices for both and the top tier QLEDs appear to cost nearly as much as the OLEDs. If there is a difference I don't expect to see a major difference, certainly not the difference between HD and SD.

I do maintain a personal budget, I'm not gonna go much over 2 grand for any TV set.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

slice1900 said:


> OLED is far superior to QLED, which is basically marketing bull**** for a typical LCD TV with LED backlight. It uses some quantum dots to increase the color range slightly, but it still suffers from all the same problems that all LCD based TVs do, the lack of proper blacks. Unless you always watch in a fairly bright room, an OLED will look so much better than any LCD/LED TV possibly could you'll be kicking yourself for paying OLED prices for a crappy QLED.


How much different is an OLED than a QLED really as far as PQ goes? I've seen them side by side and don't see much difference. BTW, I have not kicked myself because I bought all the "crappy" Samsung 4K sets. I do regret buying all the plasmas.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

TheRatPatrol said:


> I see your points, I didn't think about all the different viewing scenarios. Thanks


We have four 4K sets in very different settings and I don't see a need for calibration in any of them.

Rich


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

TheRatPatrol said:


> I agree, for the amount of money we spend on these TVs they should come calibrated from the factory.


Perhaps "sold installed and calibrated in the home" would be the answer?



TheRatPatrol said:


> Imagine if you bought a car and had to have it tuned up before you could get the full use out of it?


Basically that is what the dealer is doing with "dealer prep". They do more than roll it off the transporter and hand you the keys.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

James Long said:


> Perhaps "sold installed and calibrated in the home" would be the answer?
> 
> Basically that is what the dealer is doing with "dealer prep". They do more than roll it off the transporter and hand you the keys.


True. I bought a 77 Olds 98 with everything once. I was in a real hurry to get down the road on vacation. I told them I would come back and let them go over it when my trip was over. I got about 15 miles and turned around. One window would not roll down, one door would only open from the outside, black smoke was coming from the tail pipe and it ran something awful and it pulled real hard to the right.
When I took it back the service manager, a lady, wrote down all of what I told her it needed. She said it would be ready in 4 hours. Well, I certainly did not believe that. 4 hours later I went back and it was all done. Motor ran good with no smoke windows and doors all operated correctly and no longer pulled to the right. I then went on a trip and put 2,700 miles on it in the next 2 weeks.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

James Long said:


> Perhaps "sold installed and calibrated in the home" would be the answer?


I believe Best Buy offers that.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

MysteryMan said:


> That would be futile. Every home has a different viewing environment. That viewing environment dictates the calibrating process. There's no one size fits all when it comes to calibrating a TV.


They can certainly be calibrated to have accurate colors, a wide contrast ratio and a neutral gamma for standard viewing conditions. If you want to locate your TV where its exposed to direct sunlight or in a completely dark home theater room then you may need to tweak some things, but what you'd need to tweak would be a tiny subset of all the settings. There's only one correct setting for accurate colors, you don't need to fiddle with that regardless of where it is viewed (though some people do prefer oversaturated colors but they wouldn't be getting that if they signed up for professional calibration anyway so they're not the target market)


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

slice1900 said:


> They can certainly be calibrated to have accurate colors, a wide contrast ratio and a neutral gamma for standard viewing conditions. If you want to locate your TV where its exposed to direct sunlight or in a completely dark home theater room then you may need to tweak some things, but what you'd need to tweak would be a tiny subset of all the settings. There's only one correct setting for accurate colors, you don't need to fiddle with that regardless of where it is viewed (though some people do prefer oversaturated colors but they wouldn't be getting that if they signed up for professional calibration anyway so they're not the target market)


It's obvious you're not a fan of TV calibration and that's OK, "One man's candy can be another man's poison". When it comes to audio/video I only purchase and use high end equipment and expect top performance. To achieve that calibration us needed. There's a huge difference between tweaking a TV out of the box yourself, using a calibration disc and having your TV professionally calibrated. Much of what a calibration tech does cannot be done with the naked eye (a couple of examples are maximize Dynamic Range without destroying picture information and ensure the use of proper bit mapping). There are many other things a calibration tech does that cannot be performed by tweaking a TV out of the box or using a calibration disc which is why the process takes a couple of hours. I have been having my TV's professionally calibrated for many years and I can assure you there is a very noticeable difference in picture quality after a set is professionally calibrated. Whenever people visit our home for the first time the most repeated statement we hear is "Wow, I wish our TV looked as great as yours".


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

MysteryMan said:


> It's obvious you're not a fan of TV calibration and that's OK, "One man's candy can be another man's poison". When it comes to audio/video I only purchase and use high end equipment and expect top performance. To achieve that calibration us needed. There's a huge difference between tweaking a TV out of the box yourself, using a calibration disc and having your TV professionally calibrated. Much of what a calibration tech does cannot be done with the naked eye (a couple of examples are maximize Dynamic Range without destroying picture information and ensure the use of proper bit mapping). There are many other things a calibration tech does that cannot be performed by tweaking a TV out of the box or using a calibration disc which is why the process takes a couple of hours. I have been having my TV's professionally calibrated for many years and I can assure you there is a very noticeable difference in picture quality after a set is professionally calibrated. Whenever people visit our home for the first time the most repeated statement we hear is "Wow, I wish our TV looked as great as yours".


At the very cheapest and relatively easy to do is the calibration disc. I bought the Spears & Munsil second edition from Amazon or Ebay for about $30.
Think of this, how many times do you look at something and it appears too light or too dark or not quite sharp and maybe too sharp ? This can be caused by the camera and whatever they did to the signal after the camera. Now think of when you adjust something that is fixed like lines. If you have too much contrast the lines get fat and fuzzy or if you have too little the lines get fat and fuzzy.
Adjusted correctly and the lines are skinny and sharp.
I used the disc for the Contrast, Sharpness, Color Intensity / Saturation and Tint. There were several more things I knew nothing about so I did not even try those.
As you stated , everyone that sees my TV says, man that really has a good picture and what they are looking at is a 720p or 1080i upscaled by the TV to the 4k it is capable of.
I have 3 TVs in this house and my second son has a 60" Samsung 4k TV. Using it on all 4 TVs and the cost per TV is under $10 each.

I am too much of a tightwad to pay for a professional calibration for a TV that cost less than $1,000.
If I was buying an 82" TV OLED, etc. I would seriously consider having it calibrated.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

jimmie57 said:


> everyone that sees my TV says, man that really has a good picture and what they are looking at is a 720p or 1080i upscaled by the TV to the 4k it is capable of.


I have received similar comments long before the introduction of 4K HDTV and HDTV because my sets were professionally calibrated. Look at it this way. Tweaking a TV out of the box will get you GOOD results. Using a calibration disc to it's "fullest" potential will get you BETTER results. Having your TV professionally calibrated will get you the BEST results. As bmcleod stated, "...they're our TV's to enjoy how we see fit".


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## bmcleod (May 13, 2006)

TheRatPatrol said:


> ... Imagine if you bought a car and had to have it tuned up before you could get the full use out of it?





Rich said:


> Yup, my feelings exactly.
> Rich


If you want to use the car analogy there are those who after buying a car take it to a shop and have dual exhaust, or special air intakes installed, different tires and wheels, whatever. It's not about getting 'full use', it's about getting 'full enjoyment', and each of us has a different appreciation of what that is. I wouldn't consider having my car modified, I'm happy the way it comes from the manufacturer/dealer, but I'm not a 'car guy' so I don't take issue with those who enjoy having their car tricked out.

I spend winters in Park City and ski over 100 days a year, I buy new skis and boots pretty regularly (and have several pairs of each). I'd never use them 'out of the box', I have my bindings mounted and adjusted by a professional, and I have the edges sharpened and tuned. Some do those things themselves, maybe they're cheap, maybe they can't afford it, maybe they just like doing it. I also would never use boots out of the box, I have custom insoles installed that are fit to my foot, some have their boots canted or adjusted for pronation (I'm lucky there and don't need it). Some buy boots on the Internet, put them on and ski ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'm sure there are lots of examples of how each of us enjoy things to a different degree and how we might take it further than the next guy or gal. How we chose to calibrate our TV (or not at all) just isn't a big deal, this is a hobby we enjoy in different ways ... I'm much more an audiophile ... wanna talk about speaker cable? :dizzy::laughing:


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

bmcleod said:


> If you want to use the car analogy there are those who after buying a car take it to a shop and have dual exhaust, or special air intakes installed, different tires and wheels, whatever. It's not about getting 'full use', it's about getting 'full enjoyment', and each of us has a different appreciation of what that is. I wouldn't consider having my car modified, I'm happy the way it comes from the manufacturer/dealer, but I'm not a 'car guy' so I don't take issue with those who enjoy having their car tricked out.
> 
> I spend winters in Park City and ski over 100 days a year, I buy new skis and boots pretty regularly (and have several pairs of each). I'd never use them 'out of the box', I have my bindings mounted and adjusted by a professional, and I have the edges sharpened and tuned. Some do those things themselves, maybe they're cheap, maybe they can't afford it, maybe they just like doing it. I also would never use boots out of the box, I have custom insoles installed that are fit to my foot, some have their boots canted or adjusted for pronation (I'm lucky there and don't need it). Some buy boots on the Internet, put them on and ski ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
> 
> I'm sure there are lots of examples of how each of us enjoy things to a different degree and how we might take it further than the next guy or gal. How we chose to calibrate our TV (or not at all) just isn't a big deal, this is a hobby we enjoy in different ways ... I'm much more an audiophile ... wanna talk about speaker cable? :dizzy::laughing:


Take a look at the ratings of the Sony vs the Samsung and the number of ratings for each of the brands.
Yes, I have a Samsung.
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/promo/tv-deals?qp=tvscreensizerange_facet=TV Screen Size~75" or More


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

jimmie57 said:


> Take a look at the ratings of the Sony vs the Samsung and the number of ratings for each of the brands.
> Yes, I have a Samsung.
> https://www.bestbuy.com/site/promo/tv-deals?qp=tvscreensizerange_facet=TV Screen Size~75" or More


Yup, we have four of them and couldn't be more pleased with them. Soon as the prices get down to where they meet my top price I'm gonna get a QLED. I've done my homework, I know what Samsung makes. I even know what I dislike about the Samsungs and am willing to share that with anyone interested. I don't buy something and think it must be the best just because I bought it. I learned from the mistakes I made. I'm perfectly willing to share those mistakes...altho I think I've said enough about them.

Gotta say, I was cursing the One Connect Box thing the other day. I do like the concept but I'd like it a whole lot better if Samsung had put another set of HDMI ports on the back of the sets just in case that one point of failure happened. Be nice to have an alternate route. Cost more, I get that. I just don't like the one point of failure thing.

Rich


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

MysteryMan said:


> It's obvious you're not a fan of TV calibration and that's OK, "One man's candy can be another man's poison".


It sounds like you are claiming that factory calibration would be pointless, which is ridiculous. Not everyone will pay hundreds of dollars to have someone come to their house and calibrate their TV, you can get almost as good of results in typical situations having a TV factory calibrated.

Or do you think Apple is wasting their money factory calibrating every device they ship, and should instead support people having a professional calibrate their iPhone? I'm not sure in what way that could possibly produce a better result, perhaps you can enlighten me.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

bmcleod said:


> If you want to use the car analogy there are those who after buying a car take it to a shop and have dual exhaust, or special air intakes installed, different tires and wheels, whatever. It's not about getting 'full use', it's about getting 'full enjoyment', and each of us has a different appreciation of what that is. I wouldn't consider having my car modified, I'm happy the way it comes from the manufacturer/dealer, but I'm not a 'car guy' so I don't take issue with those who enjoy having their car tricked out.
> 
> I spend winters in Park City and ski over 100 days a year, I buy new skis and boots pretty regularly (and have several pairs of each). I'd never use them 'out of the box', I have my bindings mounted and adjusted by a professional, and I have the edges sharpened and tuned. Some do those things themselves, maybe they're cheap, maybe they can't afford it, maybe they just like doing it. I also would never use boots out of the box, I have custom insoles installed that are fit to my foot, some have their boots canted or adjusted for pronation (I'm lucky there and don't need it). Some buy boots on the Internet, put them on and ski ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
> 
> I'm sure there are lots of examples of how each of us enjoy things to a different degree and how we might take it further than the next guy or gal. How we chose to calibrate our TV (or not at all) just isn't a big deal, this is a hobby we enjoy in different ways ... I'm much more an audiophile ... *wanna talk about speaker cable?* :dizzy::laughing:


Sure, I prefer Monster wire. I know, Monster. Nobody likes the pricing but I do like the wire they sell. Not an audiophile, like good sound and I have bought a couple rolls of Monster wire, I like the flexibility of the wires, makes for neater easier installs. Didn't like the price...

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

slice1900 said:


> It sounds like you are claiming that factory calibration would be pointless, which is ridiculous. Not everyone will pay hundreds of dollars to have someone come to their house and calibrate their TV, you can get almost as good of results in typical situations having a TV factory calibrated.
> 
> Or do you think Apple is wasting their money factory calibrating every device they ship, and should instead support people having a professional calibrate their iPhone? I'm not sure in what way that could possibly produce a better result, perhaps you can enlighten me.


He didn't say it was pointless. He'd never say that. This whole argument is subjective, if someone feels calibration is necessary and can afford a first class calibration I can understand it. (But what do the folks that can just barely afford a new set do with a set that really needs calibration?) Doesn't mean I agree, buying an expensive set and having to shell out a quarter of its price for calibration bothers me. Just me, just my opinion. What would truly bother me is paying somebody ~ $500 and hearing, "You'll get used to the picture eventually." Or words to that effect. Every calibration disc I have purchased has had a similar disclaimer in the user manual.

Rich


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## bmcleod (May 13, 2006)

jimmie57 said:


> Take a look at the ratings of the Sony vs the Samsung and the number of ratings for each of the brands.
> Yes, I have a Samsung.
> https://www.bestbuy.com/site/promo/tv-deals?qp=tvscreensizerange_facet=TV Screen Size~75" or More


Interesting mine doesn't come up in this search, I think it's because they're so popular Bestbuy can't get enough of them.



Rich said:


> ...
> Gotta say, I was cursing the One Connect Box thing the other day. I do like the concept but I'd like it a whole lot better if Samsung had put another set of HDMI ports on the back of the sets just in case that one point of failure happened. Be nice to have an alternate route. Cost more, I get that. I just don't like the one point of failure thing.
> Rich


I wasn't keen on that box either, I'd end up with a bunch of extra cable behind my gear, and even with having the big box and cable, I still had to run Ethernet; if you're going to do it then get everything. Hadn't considered failure points. In my case too I have HDMI & OTA cables running one way, and network and power going the other, I'm happy running them down the cable management in the legs.

I did like that the larger QLED's (at least the 82 I was interested in) had multiple mounting points for the legs, narrow and wide, I need wide.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

My point is more that factory calibration would not be that expensive, and would satisfy the needs of 99.99% of set purchasers. The 0.01% who want to pay hundreds of dollars to go the extra mile would be free to do so, but everyone else would get TVs that are a lot better than today.

It wouldn't make sense in the cut throat lower end market where price is everything, but telling people who paid $2000 for a 65" TV that they need to spend another few hundred to make it look like it should have out of the box is just ... sad.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

slice1900 said:


> It sounds like you are claiming that factory calibration would be pointless, which is ridiculous. Not everyone will pay hundreds of dollars to have someone come to their house and calibrate their TV, you can get almost as good of results in typical situations having a TV factory calibrated.
> 
> Or do you think Apple is wasting their money factory calibrating every device they ship, and should instead support people having a professional calibrate their iPhone? I'm not sure in what way that could possibly produce a better result, perhaps you can enlighten me.


One more time. As I stated earlier factory calibrating would be futile because every house has a different viewing environment. The viewing environment dictates the calibrating process. There's no one size fits all when it comes to calibrating a TV. If there were, the ISF (Imaging Science Foundation) certified techs would be out of business. Have you ever seen a TV before and after it was professionally calibrated? I doubt it. I assure you there is a dramatic improvement in picture quality. You are correct in stating not everyone will pay hundreds of dollars to have their TV's calibrated but serious Home Theater enthusiast will. And comparing Apple products and iPhones that can be used in multiple viewing environments with TVs that are in a stationary viewing environment is what's ridiculous.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Color accuracy doesn't depend on the viewing environment, it is an absolute. The things that will change based on viewing environment are stuff like contrast ratio, brightness, gamma, etc. Factory calibration could insure accurate colors and set the rest for a typical viewing environment. That would be a huge improvement over a completely uncalibrated set, but still leave room for improvement for ISF techs at a specific viewing location.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

slice1900 said:


> Color accuracy doesn't depend on the viewing environment, it is an absolute.


If that were true why do some manufacturers and models provide better color accuracy than others?


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## bmcleod (May 13, 2006)

There was a TV ‘shootout’ a couple days ago in the UK (so could include some models not available in the US). It was Hosted by Vincent Teoh, a well known TV reviewer and Professional calibrator, but actually judged by the public (though a picture of the audience looked like a bunch of TV geeks). Anyway here were the results.

Best overall TV: Panasonic FZ802 OLED
Best HDR TV: LG C8 OLED
Best gaming TV: Samsung Q9FN QLED
Best living room TV: Sony AF8 OLED
Best home theater TV: Panasonic FZ802 OLEDk

I’m seeing a pattern :sunglasses:


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

bmcleod said:


> There was a TV 'shootout' a couple days ago in the UK (so could include some models not available in the US). It was Hosted by Vincent Teoh, a well known TV reviewer and Professional calibrator, but actually judged by the public (though a picture of the audience looked like a bunch of TV geeks). Anyway here were the results.
> 
> Best overall TV: Panasonic FZ802 OLED
> Best HDR TV: LG C8 OLED
> ...


Are they still selling Panasonic in the US ? I did not see any at the Best Buy site ?


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## bmcleod (May 13, 2006)

jimmie57 said:


> Are they still selling Panasonic in the US ? I did not see any at the Best Buy site ?


Looks like that's a no ...

What Happened to Panasonic TVs?


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

MysteryMan said:


> If that were true why do some manufacturers and models provide better color accuracy than others?


Some TVs models are better made than others. A rifle with a poorly made barrel will never be as accurate as one with a good barrel, no matter how much you try to tweak the sight for accuracy.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

bmcleod said:


> Interesting mine doesn't come up in this search, I think it's because they're so popular Bestbuy can't get enough of them.
> 
> I wasn't keen on that box either, I'd end up with a bunch of extra cable behind my gear, and even with having the big box and cable, I still had to run Ethernet; if you're going to do it then get everything. Hadn't considered failure points. In my case too I have HDMI & OTA cables running one way, and network and power going the other, I'm happy running them down the cable management in the legs.
> 
> I did like that the larger QLED's (at least the 82 I was interested in) had multiple mounting points for the legs, narrow and wide, I need wide.


The newest 4K Samsung sets all seem to come with at least two mounting points for legs and can also take a pedestal. Nice to have choices. My oldest set, the JS8500 has no options just the pedestal.

The One Connect Box does make for neater cabling and I'd think it would be great for a wall hanging TV set. The one point of failure thing is very troubling. I've looked at the newest Samsungs and the 4K sets don't seem to have the OCBs (only the 8 Series and 9 Series have had them), I think I did see them mentioned on the QLED offerings. Not sure which Series.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

slice1900 said:


> My point is more that factory calibration would not be that expensive, and would satisfy the needs of 99.99% of set purchasers. The 0.01% who want to pay hundreds of dollars to go the extra mile would be free to do so, but everyone else would get TVs that are a lot better than today.
> 
> It wouldn't make sense in the cut throat lower end market where price is everything, *but telling people who paid $2000 for a 65" TV that they need to spend another few hundred to make it look like it should have out of the box is just ... sad.*


That's a short synopsis of what I went thru with the Sony 850. Yeah, it was a 65" set and it did cost almost $2,000. Sad thing is, I didn't expect this from a Sony TV set. I can see why they need calibration.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

jimmie57 said:


> Are they still selling Panasonic in the US ? I did not see any at the Best Buy site ?


This from Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-98...pID=51o5lPg6C0L&preST=_SX300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch

Only "new" set I could find. And only $18,000!!!

Rich


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## bmcleod (May 13, 2006)

MysteryMan said:


> I have received similar comments long before the introduction of 4K HDTV and HDTV because my sets were professionally calibrated. Look at it this way. Tweaking a TV out of the box will get you GOOD results. Using a calibration disc to it's "fullest" potential will get you BETTER results. Having your TV professionally calibrated will get you the BEST results. As bmcleod stated, "...they're our TV's to enjoy how we see fit".


I don't expect this will settle the 'calibrate' or 'no calibrate' debate, nor what set is best 'out of the box' or period, but a new review of my 900F came out today and when I read the part below it reminded me of this discussion. With what Andrew says below, I see some room on both sides of the discussion. He found colors spot on out of the box, but he also found improvements by calibrating further, it seems as a professional calibrator and reviewer he adjusts every set after an initial watch, but before critical viewing.

... "Out of the box, the Sony ships with its Standard picture profile engaged, which you're not going to want to utilize. I switched to Sony's Custom profile and measured its out-of-the-box performance using my C6 light meter and CalMAN software. Straight away, the Custom profile has some of the most accurate colors I've ever measured out of the box. In truth, they were bang on, and all under the acceptable margin of error (Delta E) calibrators strive for. The greyscale. on the other hand. wasn't as shipshape, with a decidedly blue bias throughout. Thankfully, and with very little effort, the greyscale was able to be brought into near perfect alignment, making the X900F, like its OLED brethren, one of the more accurate displays I've had the pleasure of calibrating."

Here's the full review:
Sony X900F Ultra HD LED Smart TV Reviewed


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

I wonder how good the smartphone apps for calibration are compared to the equipment he's using? Anyone ever seen a comparison done?


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