# What I'm Finding Out About Myself From Streaming-Only...



## B. Shoe (Apr 3, 2008)

So I've been in a streaming-only setup since early September 2019. I've been toying around with the following services since I fully dove into the world of streaming:

*YouTube TV* (Local news and live sports. Most of my other viewing on this platform revolves around event-based programs like Oscars, special events, etc.)
*HBO NOW* (Have always enjoyed HBO original programming. I don't, however, find myself watching movies as often through this platform as I did when I was subscribed via satellite.)
*Disney+* (My daughter loves it and it's in heavy rotation.)
*ESPN+ *(Multi-view mode is great on big game nights, and the network of available game content and some added features appeals to me.)
*Apple TV+* (I subscribed to this upon launch, but I just haven't found myself diving into this platform. I think I might like some of these programs, but time hasn't been on my side to watch. And researching upcoming programs, there's nothing there that really wants me holding onto this month-to-month.)
*Netflix* (I've held onto this for my daughter. But with some of the removal/redistribution of programs to other platforms, I'm not sure there's a lot to keep me hanging around.)
*Hulu* (I activated this as part of the Disney bundle. I'm not sure if there's a ton that intrigues me. But it's essentially free content, so I don't have any need to remove it.)

So what am I figuring out? Sort of what I anticipated from the start; I simply don't access as much of this content as I thought I might. Especially not in a time in my life where my daughter is keeping me busy with activities outside of the home most evenings. My total monthly bill is $95, which is still considerably less than what I was paying for my satellite provider and something I can afford. But I'm at a point where I believe I can feel confident dropping Netflix, and most likely Apple TV+. Why spend the dollars that I could allocate to something else?

As always, the best part of streaming is that each viewing experience is different. What services are you looking at going "Why am I giving money to this each month?"


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## Holydoc (Feb 18, 2008)

Shoe,
I stream a bit different than you. Once I no longer need a service, I drop it. Seems to me, that you are a bit more loyal than I am.

For instance, HBO. I subscribed to binge "Game of Thrones" and then dropped it. I will subscribe again for "Westworld" with every intentions of cancelling it after I watch it.

One of the things I try to do is to try to budget where I can. Granted I do not like commercials so I am always paying extra for that feature. The exception here is CBS. The CBS website allows me to go to it and stream all their current season shows for free. You can even fast forward through the commercials. So the question for me is "Why pay for CBS All Access?" The only reason I would pay would be to binge watch a Star Trek season.

Netflix is another service that I use to Binge. When a new season of a show comes on, for instance Stranger Things, I wait until the season ends, and then subscribe. I binge the season and then cancel once my month is over. During that time, I can catch up on any movies that I currently wish to see with the mind set that I am cancelling at the end of the month.

The one I am having problems cancelling is Philo. My wife loves the Hallmark movies and Philo seems to be the best way to get those. The problem is that there are SO MANY Hallmark Christmas movies that I end up keeping Philo streaming. So I have to pay the $19.99/month.

My typical streaming bill is ~ $40/month. Currently that includes Hulu w/no adds, Disney+, ESPN+, and Philo. My bill will soar to ~$70/month once football season starts again.

I think the wonderful thing about streaming is that YOU dictate your bill. YOU decide on what programs to subscribe to. Unlike cable or satellite tv, YOU are in complete control of the channels you want and how big a bill you are willing to pay.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Holydoc said:


> Shoe,
> I stream a bit different than you. Once I no longer need a service, I drop it. Seems to me, that you are a bit more loyal than I am.
> 
> For instance, HBO. I subscribed to binge "Game of Thrones" and then dropped it. I will subscribe again for "Westworld" with every intentions of cancelling it after I watch it.
> ...


Hallmark is always in the mix, can't get away from it. We stream kinda like you. Everybody is gonna do it the way they want to. For instance, I have no use for a cable replacement service.

Rich


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## kevinwmsn (Aug 19, 2006)

If Hallmark channels could get in YoutubeTV, then it would check a lot of boxes for wife acceptance factor.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Rich said:


> Hallmark is always in the mix, can't get away from it. We stream kinda like you. Everybody is gonna do it the way they want to. For instance, I have no use for a cable replacement service.
> 
> Rich


I had decided on YTTV because for all its warts, it works OK and had all the channels I want in one place. But it is $15/more than a different solution of mixed apps would be. Because it had all my locals, and a few channels of minor interest that my alternate solution I decided the $15 wasn't so bad. But when I got the email about cancelling the RSNs it made me rethink. Always dangerous!

So it is Sling Blue to cover my 9 must have cable channels for the few shows on them I actually like and can't reasonably get otherwise.

Plus, Hulu basic no ads to cover NBC, Fox & ABC, and a few others with next day coverage. And CBS All Access no ads. I would keep those regardless of any other choices. And I use Apple's TV app to somewhat manage it. Not quite as handy as YTTV but what the heck, it isn't like I don't have time to waste flipping around.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

kevinwmsn said:


> If Hallmark channels could get in YoutubeTV, then it would check a lot of boxes for wife acceptance factor.


I can't believe how popular that channel is. My wife is always on it. All I see is terrible acting, producing, directing and casting.

Rich


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

B. Shoe said:


> *ESPN+ *(Multi-view mode is great on big game nights)


I wish ALL streaming apps could do this.


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## mjwagner (Oct 8, 2005)

TheRatPatrol said:


> I wish ALL streaming apps could do this.


Agreed. That is the one thing I really missed when I transitioned from PSVue to YTTV.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

As I've noted in other threads, I try to schedule viewing in a traditional weekly fashion. Based on the past few years at an ongoing cost of $80 a month typically per week I average:

8 shows from CBS All Access ($9.99, no ads)

9 shows from Hulu ($11.99, no ads)

4 shows from Netflix ($12.99, no ads)

4 shows from HBO ($14.99, no ads)

3 shows from Amazon Prime ($0.00, no ads)

1 show from Acorn TV ($5.00, no ads)

2 shows from Philo ($20.00, ad skip)

1 show from PBS ($5.00 donation, ad at beginning of show)
There is considerable variation in the number of weekly shows from each streamer depending upon the time of year (seasons). Depending upon what's on, I add, then drop:

Showtime ($5.00, no ads)

Britbox ($6.99, no ads)
The fact is that $80.00 a month is the cheapest my monthly TV cost has been in decades.

Once ViacomCBS gets its no-ads act together it is possible I'll drop Philo. I have no idea what impact Peacock will have. The pluses, Disney and Apple, haven't attracted my interest.


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## wmb (Dec 18, 2008)

phrelin said:


> The fact is that $80.00 a month is the cheapest my monthly TV cost has been in decades.


I had DirecTV for that a little over 2 years ago, then $75 in bill credits expired and the bill doubled.

Since then, I did [email protected] month DirecTV Now subscriptions for $45/month that got me an Apple TV each. Eventually that price climbed to almost $80 per month.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## garn9173 (Apr 4, 2005)

All I pay for is YTTV and have basic Hulu free through Sprint but that's out of sight out of mind for me. Having multiple streaming services IMO defeats the purpose of cord cutting. Philo has definitely carved out a niche for those who don't care for sports and need the Hallmark channels which I have no interest in the Hallmark channels.


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## crkeehn (Apr 23, 2002)

Rich said:


> I can't believe how popular that channel is. My wife is always on it. All I see is terrible acting, producing, directing and casting.
> 
> Rich


Yeah, ain't it great?


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

Netflix is the last streaming service I would drop. I am heavily invested in at least six series that they show. It's hard to find a better value for the $$. The one secret I found to Netflix that might make it more enjoyable for new people is to go through the shows you know and love and click on them and then scroll down and give them a Thumbs Up vote. They will not show up in your list of shows that are in your Queue if you do it right.

After searching for about 20-30 shows and rating them my recommended show list changed and a lot more of the shows I actually liked showed up.


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## LTYRS (Sep 23, 2019)

Rich said:


> I can't believe how popular that channel is. My wife is always on it. All I see is terrible acting, producing, directing and casting.
> 
> Rich


Agree with you, horrible productions and acting......but my wife loves it


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## wmb (Dec 18, 2008)

garn9173 said:


> All I pay for is YTTV and have basic Hulu free through Sprint but that's out of sight out of mind for me.


Free HD Netflix from T-Mobile here. That's one aspect of streaming that seems ignored. It seems cell providers like bundling a streaming service with their service.

Oh, T-Mobile is also giving away MLB At Bat (or whatever the out-of-market package is called) to subscribers again this year.

So, aside from YTTV, I pay for the Disney+ bundle. This is an upgrade from just ESPN+ bought to watch MLS. We've been streaming Clone Wars and Rebels on Disney+.

I can't believe how lucky I got that my wife would rather watch Clone Wars, MLS, or Steven Universe than anything on Hallmark.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

crkeehn said:


> Yeah, ain't it great?


Different strokes, what can we do?

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

dreadlk said:


> Netflix is the last streaming service I would drop. I am heavily invested in at least six series that they show. It's hard to find a better value for the $$. The one secret I found to Netflix that might make it more enjoyable for new people is to go through the shows you know and love and click on them and then scroll down and give them a Thumbs Up vote. They will not show up in your list of shows that are in your Queue if you do it right.
> 
> After searching for about 20-30 shows and rating them my recommended show list changed and a lot more of the shows I actually liked showed up.


Yeah, I agree. Be nice if all the apps were forced to emulate NF, but that won't happen. One thing they could do with the NF interface is make deleting shows from My List easier. I keep trying to remember to try this on one of my computers. Let me do it right now...nope, same thing happens, scroll thru My List and pick a series to delete and as soon as I delete it My List goes back to the beginning. This should be fixed.

But, we complain about little things with NF and you go on other apps and they're so bad you can't wait to get back on NF.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

LTYRS said:


> Agree with you, horrible productions and acting......but my wife loves it


Gender gap. No sense in trying to understand it.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

wmb said:


> I can't believe how lucky I got that my wife would rather watch Clone Wars, MLS, or Steven Universe than anything on Hallmark.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


When the time comes for US to sit down and watch TV we usually have what I would call "quality shows" on the TV. She has no problem with that, never asks me if I want to watch the Hallmark shows. What I don't get is how anyone can go from a series like _Outlander _(series we are watching at this time) to the ***** on Hallmark and actually enjoy it. Kinda like having a bottle of Bass Ale and then having a bottle of Bud Lite. That would make no sense to me either. (I have been having beer urges lately.)

Rich


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## wmb (Dec 18, 2008)

Rich said:


> Kinda like having a bottle of Bass Ale and then having a bottle of Bud Lite. That would make no sense to me either. (I have been having beer urges lately.)


Nice Bordeaux followed by Yellowtail moscato. (I've been drinking more wine.. beer is too filling)

I'd also point out John 2:6-10.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

Rich said:


> Yeah, I agree. Be nice if all the apps were forced to emulate NF, but that won't happen. One thing they could do with the NF interface is make deleting shows from My List easier. I keep trying to remember to try this on one of my computers. Let me do it right now...nope, same thing happens, scroll thru My List and pick a series to delete and as soon as I delete it My List goes back to the beginning. This should be fixed.
> 
> *But, we complain about little things with NF and you go on other apps and they're so bad you can't wait to get back on NF.*
> 
> Rich


Yes I agree, many of the interfaces are terrible. In particular I find Amazons transport buttons to be so bad that I am scared to touch them. One moment the show moves by a few seconds at a time in FF or RW and the next moment it jumps by 5 minutes.


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## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

Rich said:


> I can't believe how popular that channel is. My wife is always on it. All I see is terrible acting, producing, directing and casting.


Your wife... my mother. I swear, they have a random script generator AI installed to generate the plot and some of the dialogue.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

AI infers intelligence. Just saying.

I won't say more because I'll hear comments about watching cars drive in a circle for four hours. Or people crashing in to each other on a football field. Or low scoring soccer and hockey games. Or issues with the drama and comedy shows that I like to watch.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

dreadlk said:


> Yes I agree, many of the interfaces are terrible. In particular I find Amazons transport buttons to be so bad that I am scared to touch them. One moment the show moves by a few seconds at a time in FF or RW and the next moment it jumps by 5 minutes.


Amazon disappoints me. I think they do everything well and then they screw this up. I don't go there very much, just a month or two a year. Looks good, kinda NF-like, when you open it up. But there are lots of things to complain about with that app.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Mark Holtz said:


> Your wife... my mother. I swear, they have a random script generator AI installed to generate the plot and some of the dialogue.


Yes, the "sameness" is disturbing. And when you see an actor you recognize and enjoy you get to see what poor directing and producing can do to a good actor.

Rich


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## LTYRS (Sep 23, 2019)

James Long said:


> AI infers intelligence. Just saying.
> 
> I won't say more because I'll hear comments about watching cars drive in a circle for four hours. Or people crashing in to each other on a football field. Or low scoring soccer and hockey games. Or issues with the drama and comedy shows that I like to watch.


I like all the shows you described because they are real life events and not scripted, I like soccer also its not a game of only scoring, the goal is special because its so hard to do, takes skill and a lot of strategy. 
I watch some of the romantic shows with my wife also, happy wife happy ...well you know


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## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

I don't watch golf (too boring), car races (too noisy), or soccer (too low-scoring). I seldom watch baseball (too drawn-out) but enjoy college football and basketball.


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## B. Shoe (Apr 3, 2008)

As we're a couple of weeks into a "new normal" during the COVID-19 crisis, I thought I'd chime back in on this thread with some additional thoughts.

Earlier in this thread, I said I viewed YTTV as essentially a $50 sports subscription package, as it allows me access to ESPN, FS1, NBC Sports, etc. Since we are in a time without live sports, I find myself only watching local channels on YTTV, and that's mainly during local news broadcasts. I've tried to branch out on some programs I've been "wanting to watch" on Apple TV+, Netflix, etc. But I honestly find myself just playing some music and winding down without my television on each night. 

Anyone else experiencing any major shifts in which services you're accessing the most?


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

B. Shoe said:


> As we're a couple of weeks into a "new normal" during the COVID-19 crisis, I thought I'd chime back in on this thread with some additional thoughts.
> 
> Earlier in this thread, I said I viewed YTTV as essentially a $50 sports subscription package, as it allows me access to ESPN, FS1, NBC Sports, etc. Since we are in a time without live sports, I find myself only watching local channels on YTTV, and that's mainly during local news broadcasts. I've tried to branch out on some programs I've been "wanting to watch" on Apple TV+, Netflix, etc. But I honestly find myself just playing some music and winding down without my television on each night.
> 
> Anyone else experiencing any major shifts in which services you're accessing the most?


Nope, still have no interest in linear TV. Still merrily streaming.

Rich


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## wmb (Dec 18, 2008)

B. Shoe said:


> Anyone else experiencing any major shifts in which services you're accessing the most?


Not a shift so much as opportunism. Free CBS All Access for a month plus another for the ENJOY code means Star Trek Picard and Discovery, and maybe Twilight Zone.

Network show seasons end soon, so that will mean more streaming as well. A couple of shows to catch up on.

So, different approaches, but not so much due to recent circumstances. More like continuing a long term trend.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## B. Shoe (Apr 3, 2008)

wmb said:


> Not a shift so much as opportunism. Free CBS All Access for a month plus another for the ENJOY code means Star Trek Picard and Discovery, and maybe Twilight Zone.


I like that word; *opportunism*. I'm diving into some shows that I likely never would purposely cut out a basketball game or something similar to watch. (Ex: I finally gave "See" on Apple TV+ a try.) Then again, I'm also trying to limit the amount of time I'm spending in front of the television in the evening, also. So it's all pretty strategic.

Good thoughts, wmb.


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## espaeth (Oct 14, 2003)

B. Shoe said:


> Anyone else experiencing any major shifts in which services you're accessing the most?


I ended up cancelling YoutubeTV. I have good OTA coverage here, an antenna in my garage, and I picked up a HD Homerun months ago with the anticipation of using the Channels DVR. I scrapped that plan when YTTV allowed recording locals in addition to all the games I was watching through the service.

My biggest surprise: I never use the local channel library on YTTV.

It's just a better experience to watch shows through Hulu (ABC,NBC,FOX) or CBS AA because I don't have to worry about skipping commercials at all, since I sub to the commercial free versions of both services. For live viewing, I still have the Channels app on the ATV (and iPad/iPhone) that interfaces with the HD Homerun to offer both a guide and uses the filesystem of the ATV to provide a playback buffer for trickplay functions (pause, rewind, etc) without the need for any Internet service or separate DVR.

My ATT wireless service includes WatchTV (35+ channels, no DVR, single stream) and HBO (soon to be HBO Max). This is just enough to watch LivePD, or provide background HGTV, History, Discovery, or Food network programming.

Adding on to that: Netflix, Disney+ (3 year D23 deal), Amazon Prime Video, and Apple TV+ (free year with Apple purchase).

Without much going on for live sports, I elected to add $50/mo to my food shelf donation instead of spending it on YTTV.


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

I'm using Amazon Prime Trial + Cinemax Trial to finish watching Strike Back as that's the cheapest option. AP is a paid service and Cinemax is supposed to be a premium service on top of that. My typical non streaming data usage is 2-3 GB on weekends. I watched 4 1/2 episodes of Strike Back yesterday, again, on a double premium service and my data usage was @ 10 GB. So a double premium service is compressing HD down to 1 - 1.5 GB / hr. Unacceptable. I definitely wouldn't keep Cinemax based on what I've seen on Strike Back PQ. I'll admit I never had any intention to, I just want to finish up this show, but in the dark scenes, you can't even make ANYTHING out. Not sure if thats AP or Cinemax compressing it that hard.


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

espaeth said:


> My biggest surprise: I never use the local channel library on YTTV.


I still don't get why YTTV makes you record every episode of a show. That's a non starter for me aside from the missing channels. Looks like I'm going to be cancelling DTV since they aren't reupping my promo and there isn't a path forward to 4K, but I'll be going TVision.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

SledgeHammer said:


> I'm using Amazon Prime Trial + Cinemax Trial to finish watching Strike Back as that's the cheapest option. AP is a paid service and Cinemax is supposed to be a premium service on top of that. My typical non streaming data usage is 2-3 GB on weekends. I watched 4 1/2 episodes of Strike Back yesterday, again, on a double premium service and my data usage was @ 10 GB. So a double premium service is compressing HD down to 1 - 1.5 GB / hr. Unacceptable. I definitely wouldn't keep Cinemax based on what I've seen on Strike Back PQ. I'll admit I never had any intention to, I just want to finish up this show, but in the dark scenes, you can't even make ANYTHING out. Not sure if thats AP or Cinemax compressing it that hard.


What are you using for the streaming? I've watched Strike Back using the AppleTV and it isn't all that dark. I noticed on my FireTV that all video is a bit darker than on the AppleTV.


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## espaeth (Oct 14, 2003)

SledgeHammer said:


> So a double premium service is compressing HD down to 1 - 1.5 GB / hr. Unacceptable.


Amazon has made a few adjustments to their streaming platform over the last couple years. They've gone more heavily into H.265 encodes to lower bandwidth to drive the same quality. It appears they have also been keeping H.264 encodes available for players that don't support H.265, but they're encoding them at lower bitrates so the end result ends up being about the same size as the H.265 stream. Depending on what device you're using to watch, that can dramatically impact picture quality.



SledgeHammer said:


> I still don't get why YTTV makes you record every episode of a show.


It makes consuming via YTTV or Hulu (or CBS AA) work out about the same. With Hulu you go into the catalog, select the show you want to watch, and typically work your way through the episodes by season. Shows don't get deleted, they just get marked as watched. Eventually on Hulu certain season rights expire and they drop out of the catalog.

Same deal for YTTV, shows are categorized by season, get marked as watched so you know where you are in watch progress, and after 9 months without a re-broadcast shows age out of your catalog.

The biggest advantage of Hulu / CBS AA: No need to worry about forwarding through commercials, because there are no commercials.


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

lparsons21 said:


> What are you using for the streaming? I've watched Strike Back using the AppleTV and it isn't all that dark. I noticed on my FireTV that all video is a bit darker than on the AppleTV.


I'm using Amazon Prime + Cinemax add-on through my LG OLED Amazon Prime app. Yeah, Strike Back doesn't have too many dark scenes, but I was watching a season 4 episode where they rescue the little girl and in one scene Scott was in a dark room talking to her and his face was COMPLETELY black crushed. If I was watching it umm... nefariously lol... that'd be a different complaint, but for a paid+paid setup, that's disappointing.


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

espaeth said:


> Amazon has made a few adjustments to their streaming platform over the last couple years. They've gone more heavily into H.265 encodes to lower bandwidth to drive the same quality. It appears they have also been keeping H.264 encodes available for players that don't support H.265, but they're encoding them at lower bitrates so the end result ends up being about the same size as the H.265 stream. Depending on what device you're using to watch, that can dramatically impact picture quality.


Interesting note on AP. I have a 2016 LG OLED and watching through that.



espaeth said:


> It makes consuming via YTTV or Hulu (or CBS AA) work out about the same. With Hulu you go into the catalog, select the show you want to watch, and typically work your way through the episodes by season. Shows don't get deleted, they just get marked as watched. Eventually on Hulu certain season rights expire and they drop out of the catalog.
> 
> Same deal for YTTV, shows are categorized by season, get marked as watched so you know where you are in watch progress, and after 9 months without a re-broadcast shows age out of your catalog.
> 
> The biggest advantage of Hulu / CBS AA: No need to worry about forwarding through commercials, because there are no commercials.


I think we had this conversation before lol... my MO is I'll watch a show when its airing, so I only care about new episodes and depending on the show, if I'm bored, I'll look through the guide and there might be an episode or two that's re-watch worthy, or I'll remember it had a funny scene. In that case I'm looking through 10 episodes if I want to watch one of them. That's doable. Looking through 200+ episodes is not. Example: If I'm bored, I might look at what eps of King Of Queens are airing today. That's a quick check. I'm not going to scour the 200+ episode list looking for one to watch. That'll take forever.

The way YTTV's DVR is, its more conducive to somebody wanting to watch every episode in order of a show they've never seen before.

In the case of Strike Back, that's what I'm doing now. In the case of King Of Queens, I most definitely don't want to watch every episode, just if the description tickles my fancy and if there's nothing better to watch.


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