# Apartment Complex blocking DISH network



## tallbubba (Apr 10, 2014)

I live in an overpriced apartment complex in Denver and we have a community Directv dish. I want to get a DISH network dish installed on my patio (tripod, wire through window, no drilling) and the office is saying that we can't do that becuase of a contract they have with Directv.

Reading the FCC website regarding this is confusing...

*Q: If my association, building management, landlord, or property owner provides a central antenna, may I install an individual antenna? *

*A: *Generally, the availability of a central antenna may allow the association, landlord, property owner, or other management entity to restrict the installation by individuals of antennas otherwise protected by the rule. Restrictions based on the availability of a central antenna will generally be permissible provided that: (*1) the person receives the particular video programming or fixed wireless service that the person desires and could receive with an individual antenna covered under the rule (e.g., the person would be entitled to receive service from a specific provider, not simply a provider selected by the association); *(2) the signal quality of transmission to and from the person's home using the central antenna is as good as, or better than, the quality the person could receive or transmit with an individual antenna covered by the rule; (3) the costs associated with the use of the central antenna are not greater than the costs of installation, maintenance and use of an individual antenna covered under the rule; and (4) the requirement to use the central antenna instead of an individual antenna does not unreasonably delay the viewer's ability to receive video programming or fixed wireless services.

We want DISH network, not Directv, so my understanding according to the FCC website, we can install a seperate antenna to get DISH.

Am i reading this right?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Is your patio an exclusive use area and can the dish and tripod fit entirely within that exclusive use area? That would be the first step (having a "protected" place you can put the dish).


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## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

1. Is the area you want to put the Dish exclusive to your use and it would not overhang outside that use?

2. Is there something you can show DISH has that you want that the Direct TV service being offered does not? What you highlighted might not be what you think. Those are what would allow the complex to deny you. You would have to show there is specific programming not being provided via the central service.


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## tallbubba (Apr 10, 2014)

the balcony is for my exclusive use.

there isn't something specific, but DISH network has SEC network, and while i have no intrests in sports I can use that to my favor.


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## tallbubba (Apr 10, 2014)

Also, we have to have a seperate contract with Directv to use the Directv service. It is not included as a part of our rent.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

DISH doesn't have SEC yet ... but it doesn't matter. You should have a choice of service even if you were choosing one with less channels and a higher price. It is your choice. (The specific programming that a DirecTV antenna connection cannot provide is a DISH Network subscription. It would be like the complex pointing a common antenna at a particular Wireless ISP tower and telling you you cannot have an antenna pointed at a different Wireless ISP.)

Are there any other DISH dishes at the complex? How high up have you gone through the management of the property? Do you have the refusal to allow a DISH installation in writing where you could show it to the FCC?


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## tallbubba (Apr 10, 2014)

I have an email...

During the build of that side of the community, we signed a contract with Direct TV as an MDU Account, therefor by signing this contract with Direct TV, we are not able to allow any other satellites on that side of the community through any other provider.

Again, I am sorry for the inconvenience.

Thank you,

Melissa
Senior Leasing Consultant
The Savoy at Dayton Station


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

What happens next depends on how hard you want to fight. If you have exclusive use area, line of sight and patience to file complaints with higher management and the government good luck in your battle.


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## Gloria_Chavez (Aug 11, 2008)

tallbubba said:


> I have an email...
> 
> During the build of that side of the community, we signed a contract with Direct TV as an MDU Account, therefor by signing this contract with Direct TV, we are not able to allow any other satellites on that side of the community through any other provider.
> 
> ...


I would contact the General Counsel at Dish to see if he/she'd be willing to help.


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## Phil T (Mar 25, 2002)

This apartment building stuff in Denver is getting out of control. My daughter just moved into a newer complex. I was paying for her internet and called to have her Centruylink service moved. Centurylink told me their notes showed the complex has a exclusive agreement with Comcast. I asked how this could be, that I thought it was illegal. They said it was on a national level, but on a state level it is not and no one will enforce it. Their notes flagged the complex "do not install". I called Comcast thinking we would get a better deal since it was exclusive. Heck no, $70.00 a month for 20mb service.


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

tallbubba said:


> I have an email...
> 
> During the build of that side of the community, we signed a contract with Direct TV as an MDU Account, therefor by signing this contract with Direct TV, we are not able to allow any other satellites on that side of the community through any other provider.
> 
> ...


Have you reviewed my thread on a very similar topic? Check it out. Maybe it will help you. It's located here:

http://www.dbstalk.com/topic/182595-the-battle-is-on-my-landlord-now-demands-i-remove-my-dish/


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

Gloria_Chavez said:


> I would contact the General Counsel at Dish to see if he/she'd be willing to help.


I also got contacted by a person in the SBCA (Satellite Broadcasting & Communications Association), who was instrumental in providing me with legal ammunition. Long story made short--you DO have the right to install DISH, despite the exclusivity contract between your complex and DirecTV.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

Give your landlord a copy of OTARD and if they don't budge, contact the FCC. The FCC would be more than happy to explain it to the. And if that fails, file a petition with the FCC.


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## tallbubba (Apr 10, 2014)

My email to my landlord...

Melissa,

I did my research and found that since you do not offer DISH network as a choice for the central antenna that we CAN install a separate dish on our patio as long as it does not protrude over the railing of our patio. I also found that your contract with Directv only prevents you from having an account with DISH.

The rules and laws regarding over the air reception can be found here, 
http://www.fcc.gov/guides/over-air-reception-devices-rule

We have every right to install a DISH on our patio as long as we comply with federal law and the complexes rules as outlined in our lease and resident handbook.

If we are not allowed to install the dish, or asked to remove our dish, we will be forced to file a complaint with the Satellite Broadcasters & Communication Association who will in turn file a complaint with the FCC for your refusal to comply with federal law.

If you have any further questions please do not hesitate to contact me.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

@tallbubba,
you really must read Dart Vader's thread to be informed of all details and options of your battle.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

If Directv's lack of SEC Network is your only concern, I wouldn't worry about it unless August arrives and they still don't have it.

Dish did their negotiation with Disney before Directv, that's why they were able to announce it before Directv does. When they renew their contract with Disney, it is almost a certainty SEC Network will be included - it is likely Disney is tying that to renewals with all providers.


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## tallbubba (Apr 10, 2014)

@psmith. It's a lengthy post, working on it in chunks. 

@slice1900 my roommate works for dish. I'm just a little more aggressive then him.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

In guessing that means a huge price difference. Awesome for you. But honestly your reason why you want dish over Directv is irrelevant IMHO.exclusive agreements that force anyone to one prouder when others are able To be used is stupid and should be ended immediately instead Of making people Do the leg work.


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## tallbubba (Apr 10, 2014)

The real reason we are going with DISH is becuase my Husband works for DISH and we get it free.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Like I said, I don't think that should matter one bit. You should be able to get it in your particular situation, as you have space on your balcony. Please let us know how they reply to your email, I'm very curios.


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## Joe Tylman (Dec 13, 2012)

Have your husband apply at DIRECTV. 

In all seriousness here's basically a small checklist to go down.


Can you get LOS from your exclusive use area
Can you install and secure everything without modifying anything in the unit in any way
Can you run wires without using the existing wiring and have it be how you want it to be

If you can answer all 3 of those with a yes then you can move forward. The biggest issue is generally the lack of ability to do an install without making any modifications to the unit to accommodate for wiring, The complex has the right to deny you any modifications made to protect their property value. There also are some clauses in the agreements about exterior aesthetics, which cannot include a dish that meets OTARD standards, but can cause issues if you wanted to install a panel or something in a sliding glass door to allow cables to go through.

You have the right to choice, but they also have the right to protect their property. I would also suggest not using threats but asking about the policies that they have in place. For example what modifications are you allowed to make as a renter to your unit. Do they have any rules about outside appearance requirements for your balcony.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

we are going same circles what already been done many times - see DV's thread


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## jsk (Dec 27, 2006)

You should have Dish install 2 dishes, add some FTA dishes and a big OTA antenna


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

jsk said:


> You should have Dish install 2 dishes, add some FTA dishes and a big OTA antenna


Yeah, I would (actually did all of that plus DTV AU-9  ) - OTARD is covering me, hehehe !

Missed 3m/10' C-Band dish though


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## tallbubba (Apr 10, 2014)

Well this was all a moot point. Were my appartment is, we have no line of sight. We'd have to attach it to our patio railing and that is forboden.

It this is all so ****ing stupid...


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

you are missed good points from DV thread ... using clamps on your railing is permissible !


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

> You should have Dish install 2 dishes, add some FTA dishes and a big OTA antenna


Sure ... if you can fit all of it within the exclusive use area. OTARD offers zero protection outside of the exclusive use area.



> you are missed good points from DV thread ... using clamps on your railing is permissible !


The dish MUST be inside the exclusive use area to be protected by OTARD. If the dish has to extend outside of the exclusive use area to get line of sight it would not be protected by OTARD.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

if you cannot made a mount of the dish inside of a perimeter of your exclusive area using clamps on railing ... well, ask someone who is capable


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## tallbubba (Apr 10, 2014)

Major issue is, the dish would have to basically be installed completely outside of the exclusive area to get a line of sight. Going to install Directv. Comcast has pissed me off to no end.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

> if you cannot made a mount of the dish inside of a perimeter of your exclusive area using clamps on railing ... well, ask someone who is capable


Inside the railing there are other options to appease the local authorities (landlord in this case). Saying that the antenna "must" be clamped to the railing is a strong hint of what has now been confirmed - the antenna would be outside of the exclusive use area of the balcony. (With enough welding and creativity a mount could be created that would not interfere with the raiing. But keeping within the exclusive use area is more difficult.)


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

I have a few ideas and could make it works, but this time it's endup without LOS, so the point we could abandon now and give it rest for future request.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Well at least you had two choices still.


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

tallbubba said:


> we have no line of sight.


I would have checked that first before taking any other steps.

Now you're on your landlord's 'list'.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

tallbubba said:


> Well this was all a moot point. Were my appartment is, *we have no line of sight*. We'd have to attach it to our patio railing and that is forboden.
> 
> It this is all so ******* stupid...


you should use www.dishpointer.com to check LOS


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## satcrazy (Mar 16, 2011)

what is OTARD?


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

satcrazy said:


> what is OTARD?


Google ?
type OTARD, press Enter, read first URL http://www.fcc.gov/guides/over-air-reception-devices-rule
isn't that easy !


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

or... http://lmgtfy.com/?q=OTARD


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

trh said:


> or... http://lmgtfy.com/?q=OTARD


I love these

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

P Smith said:


> you are missed good points from DV thread ... using clamps on your railing is permissible !


Too bad he can't install a non-pen roof mount. I did and it worked perfectly.


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## tigerarmy247 (Sep 15, 2014)

My advice would be to consult your lease and see if you agreed to only accept Direct TV service. If it's not in your lease they would have a tough time enforcing that rule against you. However if you signed in your lease to only get Direct the answer is different.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

tigerarmy247 said:


> My advice would be to consult your lease and see if you agreed to only accept Direct TV service. If it's not in your lease they would have a tough time enforcing that rule against you. However if you signed in your lease to only get Direct the answer is different.


I could be wrong but I don't think such things are legal.

I believe they could make you pay for DirecTV service as part of your lease IF it was disclosed up front... making that part of the cost of the lease like other included services... but they could not make you subscribe only to DirecTV. So you might sign a contract that requires you to pay for their "included" DirecTV service but if you can put a Dish in a non-common-use area and not illegally mount it to property you don't own, then I see no legal way for them to prevent you from also having Dish service if you want.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Just read Lord Vader thread, you'll be armed for the battle.


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

Indeed.


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