# Purchased 622 & Phone Line Fun



## logray (Apr 8, 2005)

Bought me a 622. I LOVE it.

Am a little miffed about the phone line business. I've read you can call to remove the "you must have blah blah connected to phone line to avoid being ripped off" nag.

Also wondering if I even have to worry about that extra fee since I bought the 622 and it is the third receiver on my account. Other 211 and 311 are leased.

Anyways I got a little curious about how they know if it's connected to a phone line. Does it dial out periodically and what number is it dialing?...

So I hooked it up to a voip PBX at work from home for a week or so and noticed that the 622 is just checking for dial tone. *It hasn't dialed any actual phone number yet.* I'm going to leave it hooked up for a while to see if it dials any numbers (without telling it to via dish home/ppv/etc.)

I never use dish home to check bill or order PPV, so I am guessing I could just slap a dial tone generator on the line to remove the nag, and the extra fee - but the funny thing is if it isn't dialing any numbers then there is no way for dish to know if I have it connected to a phone line, so how would they know to charge me the $5 fee? Maybe it hasn't been long enough for it to "call the mothership yet". 

Perhaps the phone line fee is for leased 622 customers?


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## Rob Glasser (Feb 22, 2005)

The phone line fee applies to leased and owned customers. 

How it checks for connectivity, i.e. a dial home or just a dial tone I'm not sure. However, if you don't have it connected to a phone line don't be surprised if you see that fee show up on your account.


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## PeggyD (Apr 6, 2006)

My 622 & 721 actually dial out to Dish Audit in the middle of the night. I have a software program on my Mac that logs all incoming & outgoing calls (it has a USB adapter that plugs into the phone jack).


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## Miner (Oct 29, 2004)

It would have to dial out periodically to connect to the collective. If it only checked for a dial tone, how would that info get back to E* unless it does dial out monthly. It may also check for dial tone daily or weekly to prevent one from having the receiver at a remote location (or not connected) most of the time and connecting to the home phone once a month. This monitoring part is speculative on my part, though. It would be nice to plug the box into a spare (inactive) VoIP phone for a dial tone and call it good.
Back when I lived in SoCal, my condo friends would occasionally order a fight on PPV and as soon as I would order the fight, my box would warn me about connecting to a phone line (phone was in the kitchen). I would have to string the phone cord across the floor to the receiver so the box could upload the PPV charge.


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## JohnL (Apr 1, 2002)

logray said:


> Bought me a 622. I LOVE it.
> 
> Am a little miffed about the phone line business. I've read you can call to remove the "you must have blah blah connected to phone line to avoid being ripped off" nag.
> 
> ...


Logray,

If I were you I would NOT let the receiver call out on any phone line that is NOT listed as your Home Phone Number. If it does you will likely get a call from Dish's Audit department and you will have to explain how and why your receiver called in from a phone line that is associated with an address other than your service address.

If Dish's Audit department is not satisfied with your answer your service will be terminated.

Just for your information a tone generator will remove the nag, but NOT the fee. Any receiver that is required to have a phone line connection (According to Dish Network) that does NOT call in at least once per month then your account will be charged the Phone Line fee for each receiver that is required to have a Phone Line connection.

John


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## srrobinson2 (Sep 16, 2003)

I checked my AT&T Callvantage outgoing logs back to October 1 and did not see a call to Dish in the middle of the night, but I have seen them in the past...


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## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

srrobinson2 said:


> I checked my AT&T Callvantage outgoing logs back to October 1 and did not see a call to Dish in the middle of the night, but I have seen them in the past...


It normally calls about ONCE a month. PPV and other services will increase the number of calls. Accessing your account will for example make a call.


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## mdewitt (Sep 21, 2006)

If you go into the menu, then system setup, diagnostics, counters. One of the counters shows the last connect date. I'm pretty sure that is the last date it connected over the phone line. I did a dial out once and it had a call queued so it dialed out. The last connect date was updated after the call. It does seem to call once a month on its own and for PPV as tnsprin said.


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## gck105 (Sep 8, 2005)

Does anyone know if I manually have the reciever dial out once per month, it that will be enough to avoid the charge?


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## William (Oct 28, 2006)

gck105 said:


> Does anyone know if I manually have the reciever dial out once per month, it that will be enough to avoid the charge?


There is no way to force the receiver to dial out (other than checking account info) to the PPV/line check number.


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## Larry Caldwell (Apr 4, 2005)

William said:


> There is no way to force the receiver to dial out (other than checking account info) to the PPV/line check number.


Are you sure? Older receivers used to dial out after a power failure. I don't know if the 622 does that or not.


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## killzone (Dec 27, 2006)

William said:


> There is no way to force the receiver to dial out (other than checking account info) to the PPV/line check number.


If you go to system info / diagnostics you can select dial out. It won't dial out if it doesn't have any calls pending, but if you connect it once a month you are pretty much guaranteed to have a call pending.


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## genem (Dec 31, 2006)

Anyone use VOIP service as their phone line? I'm about to sign up for Sun Rocket in order to tone down my cell service costs but right now I have no land line and a VIP622 DVR.


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## Ken Green (Oct 6, 2005)

Since I've owned my first 622 (Feb '06), it has never, ever dialed out on its own. The only time it has, is by my initiation, for checking account, PPV, etc. Not nightly, weekly, monthly...not ever.

Our phone lines (4 landlines) are all managed via a PC run software. It logs ALL activity on all 4 lines. To the point, the software shows each time my 622's check for a phone line connection. Logged as: "Port X accessed Line Y....accessed dial tone Y....disconnected X." [X=622; Y=account listed phone number]

During certain operations, the software in the 622 will check for a phone line connection. Among others, accessing System Information, nightly updates/self-starts, restarts, etc.

If, during one of these checks, the software in the 622 does not access a live dial tone, the software then displays the "phone line connection" error message. (EM #006/018/078/079/080) Once this error is captured by the software, the 622 software adds additional instances it checks for a dial tone.

As example, once the registry entry is flagged to =false, each time the DVR is accessed, the error message pops up, but this is not part of routine phone connection checks. Each time it does not access a live dial tone, the error message is displayed again. This continues until the software accesses a live dial tone, which then changes the =false, to =true in the 622 registry phone connection string.

Dish has no means, currently deployed, of checking to confirm whether or not any 622 is connected to a phone line, other than annoying the user with the error message.

Quite simply, if Dish could check and confirm their receivers were connected to the account listed phone number, there would be no need for audits, with respect to dual-tuner "required" phone line connected receivers.


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## rec9140 (Dec 22, 2006)

kdg454 said:


> Quite simply, if Dish could check and confirm their receivers were connected to the account listed phone number, there would be no need for audits, with respect to dual-tuner "required" phone line connected receivers.


Your post was very interesting, but the last part.

The number dialed is an 800# so ANI plays into this.

ANI is NOT BLOCKABLE.

ANI CAN be ordered even on a regular 10 digita POTS line, before ICLID was available alot of pizza places had ANI to verify orders.

I don't have facts to confirm but Dish COULD and PROBABLY does match the ANI to the account info when any receiver calls.

Any ANI that doesn't match gets put into a log. This log is checked for say any PVR and any account with say >2 receivers. If you trigger this rule you get a call.

You may have caused the warning error trigger to go off with a dial tone generator, but if Dish has setup their software to run a report on what PVR's have not called home and don't have the requirement turned off by the fee then its going to show that box 12345AF4EF on account #8821 x123123 didn't phone home and may trigger a call from Dish.

If Dish wanted to they CAN and COULD tell where the box is from the ANI. Now if you find a VOIP carrier able to support the modem on the receivers then you could say get a virtual number from the provider and setup your account so that the ICLID presented to Dish is that virtual number. Could do this with a PRI ISDN or T1/T3 lines too, if you wanted to spend the $$$ month for the line. Thats how all those scum telemarketers setup the lines they call in with the wrong numbers or a head office number etc..


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## mraroid (Jun 11, 2006)

kdg454 said:


> Dish has no means, currently deployed, of checking to confirm whether or not any 622 is connected to a phone line, other than annoying the user with the error message.


Years ago I worked in the terminal end of 911 call centers. I have to agree with REC9140 point of view regarding ANI. It is based on solid data. Many companies now use ANI rather than caller-ID data packets. It is also much cheeper than it was in the past. I guess the next question is whether DN is using ANI to look at the incoming calls to it's 800 number. We simply do not know the answer to this question.

But you make a good point. If you have hard data that says your 622 does not phone home unless you make it do so, than installing a dial tone generator will stop the nag, and maybe save someone with no land land $5.00 a month.

I don't propose anyone defrad DN. But I have lately wondered how households of the young, upwardly mobile, hip cell phone only folks are suppose to lease or buy a few DN receivers and not be looked on as crooks. What is up with this?

mraroid


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## Ken Green (Oct 6, 2005)

rc9140,mraroid--
I wholly concur with the ANI ability to capture the phone number being used whilst calling a Dish 800 number.

Bottom line is, my software would have logged any activity, and as of Feb '06, almost a year, my 622 has not attempted to "phone home."

IF Dish did have such a process in place, surely it would occur more often than annually.


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## logray (Apr 8, 2005)

Well I know the number that it dials.

And it doesn't matter even if you give it "dialtone" and not allow it to "phone home" you will still eventually get the nag and the charge on your bill. The generator only removes the nag for a little while.

I'm guessing for you to not get the nag or charge on your bill you have to allow it to call the TFN periodically.

I've read somewhere you can call them to have the nag disabled.

I haven't seen the nag in a long time though, so after so many times of not working the message might go away for a while.

So a dialtone generator is worthless except maybe for first time install req. to have dialtone (it doesn't dial the TFN until later on).


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## genem (Dec 31, 2006)

genem said:


> Anyone use VOIP service as their phone line? I'm about to sign up for Sun Rocket in order to tone down my cell service costs but right now I have no land line and a VIP622 DVR.


FYI: After a bit of research on Sun Rocket's site it appears that it should work with Sat receivers. Can't post a URL yet so here's the next best thing: sunrocket[dot]com[slash]support[slash]section[slash]sat


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## logray (Apr 8, 2005)

I've used cisco SIP voip which is basically the same as all the other voip providers out there... it works fine.


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## dean P (Aug 20, 2006)

Do you get a dial tone with VoiP? I ask because I was looking at skype to connect to my 622 but I was told that it doesn't supply a dial tone. Without a dial tone I am assuming that the modem in the 622 will not dial out? Is anyone using skype?


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## TheTony (Jan 6, 2006)

genem said:


> FYI: After a bit of research on Sun Rocket's site it appears that it should work with Sat receivers. Can't post a URL yet so here's the next best thing: sunrocket[dot]com[slash]support[slash]section[slash]sat


I can confirm that a 622 does work with SunRocket service. No special steps - just plug and go, in my experience.


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## TXCraig (Jan 7, 2007)

I think I can add somthing to this. I have had Vonage in the past and have not had any problem with dial out. The number my reciver dials is (800) 267-9084.

I don't buy PPV stuff but the reciever tires to call home once a month so I don't get the fee. I just changed from Vonage to a company called VoicePulse and now my reciver does not connect at all. So I think it depends on the VOIP company as to if it will work.

What bothers me is this reciever is a state of the art system and does not have ethernet and/or wireless (802.11) options like the newer TIVO boxes do. I think it would be safe to assume that most hoseholds that have Hi Def TV sets and VIP players would also have broadband connections to the internet... most anyway.

I don't think Dish should charge the disconneted fee unless they provide their customers with a broadband solution as phone modems are a dead and just about gone technology.

Just my 2 cents...


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## MN Wild Fan (Dec 3, 2006)

I agree. I guess we are one of those "upwardly mobile cell phone only households." Dish needs to get with the times. I live in a rural area and cell phones just make economical sense, until Dish decided to add their fee. Too many fees.


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## mraroid (Jun 11, 2006)

I have read something about this, but I don't know if it is true or not:

Lets say you have two receivers (or DVRs) and you connect only one to dial tone. The second receiver/DVR has no dial tone on it. But the DVR with the dial tone, can look out over the electrical house wire, and see the other receiver. 

This is suppose to stop folks from leaving one receiver at home, and then tossing the second one in the RV when the owners go to Phoenix for the winter.

Any truth to this?

mraroid


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

mraroid said:


> I have read something about this, but I don't know if it is true or not:
> 
> Lets say you have two receivers (or DVRs) and you connect only one to dial tone. The second receiver/DVR has no dial tone on it. But the DVR with the dial tone, can look out over the electrical house wire, and see the other receiver.
> 
> ...


This feature has been posited but not implemented by Dish.


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## Rob Glasser (Feb 22, 2005)

This is something that is said to be coming, how or when, who knows. My understanding is that this feature it there to help you in the event you have multiple receivers at home and only one is near a phone line. This way you can have them all dialing out and not have to pay a phone line fee or deal with buying a wireless phone jack.


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## gareth (Feb 3, 2007)

TXCraig said:


> What bothers me is this reciever is a state of the art system and does not have ethernet and/or wireless (802.11) options like the newer TIVO boxes do. I think it would be safe to assume that most hoseholds that have Hi Def TV sets and VIP players would also have broadband connections to the internet... most anyway.


I'm just reading up on the VIP622 receiver before I jump ship from Comcast. I CANNOT believe I have to plug this box into a landline  Is this 1990 again?!

That's a real pain - I do have a landline socket in the room where the VIP622 will go but I really don't want to run a phone cable around the room. Do they always call an 800 number? I have no long distance on the landline.

My TiVo is ancient and that uses my wireless LAN!


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## JohnL (Apr 1, 2002)

gareth said:


> I'm just reading up on the VIP622 receiver before I jump ship from Comcast. I CANNOT believe I have to plug this box into a landline  Is this 1990 again?!
> 
> That's a real pain - I do have a landline socket in the room where the VIP622 will go but I really don't want to run a phone cable around the room. Do they always call an 800 number? I have no long distance on the landline.
> 
> My TiVo is ancient and that uses my wireless LAN!


Gareth,

Yes, they always call a Toll Free number. If you have a problem running a line then get a wireless Jack.

John


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## Red Dwarf (Aug 25, 2002)

genem said:


> Anyone use VOIP service as their phone line? I'm about to sign up for Sun Rocket in order to tone down my cell service costs but right now I have no land line and a VIP622 DVR.


Sunrocket is great but I'm having trouble connecting with Dish. Maybe my 622 has a bad modem.


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## JohnL (Apr 1, 2002)

Red Dwarf said:


> Sunrocket is great but I'm having trouble connecting with Dish. Maybe my 622 has a bad modem.


Red Dwarf,

Some VOIP services simulate POTS (Plain old Telephone Service) better than others. I have heard of some problems with lesser known VOIP services like Sunrocket. You could try to use a prefix code of *99 before you dial the number.

I have Vonage, and by most accounts does simulate POTS better than most VOIP services, and yes it works just fine with my Dish Receivers.

John


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## patmurphey (Dec 21, 2006)

This is nonsense! If you have 2 receivers, Dish charges an additional receiver fee of $5. If you get one of their dual tuner receivers instead, they will waive that fee if you are kind enough to connect it to a phone line. What in the world is the big deal? It only calls an 800 number - I sense an incredible amount of paranoia here. BTW, I do sympathize with the poor soul that has cell service only and can't take advantage of this "discount".

Pat


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## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

patmurphey said:


> This is nonsense! If you have 2 receivers, Dish charges an additional receiver fee of $5. If you get one of their dual tuner receivers instead, they will waive that fee if you are kind enough to connect it to a phone line. What in the world is the big deal? It only calls an 800 number - I sense an incredible amount of paranoia here. BTW, I do sympathize with the poor soul that has cell service only and can't take advantage of this "discount".
> 
> Pat


Totally different fee. So far only with the newer receivers, but from the wording of their agreements, any receiver can be charged the $5 fee if you don't have the phone line connected.

You are charged $5 for a second owned SD receiver or $6 of a owned HD receiver on your account. If not owned but leased your are charged similar fees, but no additional receiver access fee.

Then there is the DVR fee that is waved with AEP (and previously Platinum) for all the more DVR's since the 510.


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## must_golf_more (Feb 5, 2007)

patmurphey said:


> This is nonsense! If you have 2 receivers, Dish charges an additional receiver fee of $5. If you get one of their dual tuner receivers instead, they will waive that fee if you are kind enough to connect it to a phone line. What in the world is the big deal? It only calls an 800 number - I sense an incredible amount of paranoia here. BTW, I do sympathize with the poor soul that has cell service only and can't take advantage of this "discount".
> 
> Pat


I'm currently deciding whether or not to join Dish Network (b/c apparently Comcast thinks I'm filthy stinkin rich).

Anyway, a few hours prior to reading this thread, I had a related conversation with Dish Network's sales department as I discussed my needs: 
-I have 2 TVs, one is an HDTV, and the other is an SDTV.
-I want to use the VIP622 with my HDTV
-I want to continue using my ReplayTV with my SDTV

I could have everything wrong, but I thought I'd share my findings in case it might help other people out.

Here's my understanding of how customers with 2 TVs can be serviced:

If you want to view content on two TVs, you can do this one of 2 ways:
1) get one receiver for each TV (ie, 2 receivers)
2) get one "dual-tuner" receiver (eg, VIP622)

If you've chosen "method #2", but you want to control your SDTV via a second (non-DVR) receiver, then you only have to pay an extra $5 as long as you hook up that non-DVR receiver to a phone line. If you can't hook it up to a phone line, then they'll also slap you with another $5/mo fee. (My ReplayTV cannot change the channels on the remote VIP622, so I have to get a second receiver for the SDTV.)

Sorry, it's late in the day, so this might essentially be the same thing tnsprin said. (I don't know anything about the agreements for "owned" vs "leased" receivers.)

*UPDATE: Ok, I think my posting may have only added more confusion instead of clarification. If anyone wants me to delete this posting, just reply with a note or PM me, and I'll remove it.*


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## ronimous (Jan 31, 2007)

I can also confirm that the 622 plays nicely with Vonage. Caller ID works and everything.


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## brad880 (Feb 1, 2007)

No phone line is necessary with 622. Just ask the customer service rep you speak with when signing up to speak with their manager. If you are persistant, they will not charge you for not hooking up a phone line.


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## ChuckA (Feb 7, 2006)

How long have you had the 622 installed with no phone line? And how many bills have you received without the $5 no-phone charge?


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## brad880 (Feb 1, 2007)

Just one billing cycle so far. But, they assured me I would never see the charge on my bill. I imagine I will have to call them to remind them of that a few times. In fact, the CSR told me only the corporate office could take off the fee and only for a month or two at a time. Funny how that changed after he talked with his manager. But it proves the phone line fee is bogus.


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## Chap (Feb 5, 2007)

When I asked about requiring a phone line they said it wasn't required but without it I wouldn't have all the features that I would get if I had it plugged in.


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## Rob Glasser (Feb 22, 2005)

Chap said:


> When I asked about requiring a phone line they said it wasn't required but without it I wouldn't have all the features that I would get if I had it plugged in.


Really it only affects your ability to order PPVs via the remote. There may be something else but I can't think of what it might be.


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## ChuckA (Feb 7, 2006)

Without it you can't check your bill through the receiver. Wow, can you live without that? Anyway, good luck to brad880 with not being charged $5 per month.


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