# Smart Search Complaint Thread



## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

So, once again, Smart Search is broken (if your box is connected to the internet, the Smart Search will only go up to 4/18 -- disconnect the box and it instantly goes to 4/23 as its supposed to) -- obviously because as we all know, when you are connected to the internet, it pulls guide data from the net and does searches in the cloud.

* Tech CSR has no clue the box pulls guide data from the net
* Tech CSR has no clue the guide is supposed to go out 2 weeks
* Tech CSR has no clue that a new version of software was pushed out on Wed. 0x97f. Claims the last version was pushed out in November.
* Tech CSR has no clue that the guide & Smart Search are supposed to be in sync

Sorry, not to be rude, but if you are working in tech support, you should know all this.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

SledgeHammer said:


> * Tech CSR has no clue the box pulls guide data from the net
> * Tech CSR has no clue the guide is supposed to go out 2 weeks
> * Tech CSR has no clue that a new version of software was pushed out on Wed. 0x97f. Claims the last version was pushed out in November.
> * Tech CSR has no clue that the guide & Smart Search are supposed to be in sync


Why are you so surprised? This is not something new...

Lack of knowledge on the CSR part has always been the weakest link of DIRECTV®


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

peds48 said:


> Why are you so surprised? This is not something new...
> 
> Lack of knowledge on the CSR part has always been the weakest link of DIRECTV®


I maybe wouldn't expect a level 1 tech support person to know that a connected box does searches in the cloud (although they should) or that HD is MPEG4, but I sure as hell expect a level 1 tech support to know what version of software is on the box.

I was brief in my OP, but I literally spent 4.5 minutes of my 46 minute call trying to convince her that I did in fact have 0x97f on my box. She asked me to confirm and "spell it" a total of 7 times. In fact, this was funny... she wanted me to reboot my box because she was so convinced that 0x97f does not exist, that she thought my box was corrupted and that just the version number was messed up even though everything else was accurate.

There was also another enlightening moment where I had to explain to her that I can switch between networked and not networked "so fast" by just unplugging / plugging in the network cable. She wasn't aware that was even possible. WOW.

This is like taking your Ferrari into the shop and the mechanic lifting your hood and asking you where your engine is.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Id have had to ask for a new tech. I get some things they have a hard time with but not that. You are right software versions should be listed. You should have sent her here!


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Why would you spend 3/4 of an hour telling the CSR how much you know? 
Why spend any time on a subject that is likely to right itself?


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

Laxguy said:


> Why would you spend 3/4 of an hour telling the CSR how much you know?
> Why spend any time on a subject that is likely to right itself?


Because a) I heavily use that feature and it was broken  b) most people don't, so it doesn't right itself .


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

I wonder if there are alternatives to this that'd work for the type of searching you might do? I tend to use the Guide, I guess 90% of the time, and Smart Search only a few times a week. Perhaps others have ideas.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

SledgeHammer said:


> This is like taking your Ferrari into the shop and the mechanic lifting your hood and asking you where your engine is.


No, the mechanic would be me, the CSR would be the front desk clerk at the dealership.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

CSR's are a luck of the draw. Some are savvy, some aren't. The first minute of conversation will clue you if they are knowledgeable. If they're not you're wasting your time continuing with them. Better to terminate the call and try again later.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

MysteryMan said:


> CSR's are a luck of the draw. Some are savvy, some aren't.


That's what the scripted system is supposed to avoid. CSRs aren't supposed to have to know anything outside of navigating the support system.

I think the problem more likely lies with the people who provide the scripts and the training to use them. Opening new or different support centers or demanding a higher level of front-line CSR can't fix this.


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

Laxguy said:


> I wonder if there are alternatives to this that'd work for the type of searching you might do? I tend to use the Guide, I guess 90% of the time, and Smart Search only a few times a week. Perhaps others have ideas.


Programs show up in the guide just fine 

I'm not doing any complicated search. Just "Pawn Stars".

If your box has internet access it returns 32 episodes or there abouts. If you pull the internet cable and do a brand new smart search for "Pawn Stars" then it IMMEDIATELY pulls about 100. Plug the internet back in and reconnect and it IMMEDIATELY goes back down to 32. You can toggle back and forth between the two all day long.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

I remember you always bringing this up. You refuse to use Record Series for some odd reason right?


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

harsh said:


> That's what the scripted system is supposed to avoid. CSRs aren't supposed to have to know anything outside of navigating the support system.
> 
> I think the problem more likely lies with the people who provide the scripts and the training to use them. Opening new or different support centers or demanding a higher level of front-line CSR can't fix this.


That might be the case with your service provider (DISH). As a DIRECTV customer I have on several occasions had the pleasure of getting a CSR that was as savvy as those of us here on DBSTalk.


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

EXACTLY. Ok, 95% of problems CAN be solved by script. So 95% of your tech support people should be script monkeys. That's why most companies have Level 2 tech support with smarter people. DirecTV pretty much has script monkeys who can only read scripts and engineers that you can never talk to. They need a 2nd level in the middle. Pay the level 1 guys their $5/hr or whatever and then have the $20/hr level 2 guys that know the system.


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

sigma1914 said:


> I remember you always bringing this up. You refuse to use Record Series for some odd reason right?


I don't "always" bring this up. I bring it up when it breaks every 3 or 4 months.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

So you would rather waste time talking about it with a CSR and periodically bring it up here, rather than solve the issue with a workaround?


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

sigma1914 said:


> So you would rather waste time talking about it with a CSR and periodically bring it up here, rather than solve the issue with a workaround?


What work-around do you suggest?

As I explained to you last time, there are some shows where I don't care to watch every episode. I like to pick and choose. So I do the "other showings" thing.

Yes, I can set a Season Pass to record thousands of episodes and then try to dig through to find ones that I want and spend an hour deleting all the ones I don't. Or I can just do it the "right way". I'm referring to old shows, not just new run eps. Season Pass would work fine for New Run Eps I guess.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

MysteryMan said:


> As a DIRECTV customer I have on several occasions had the pleasure of getting a CSR that was as savvy as those of us here on DBSTalk.


Unfortunately the thread starter did not have that experience ... and he is not the only one to notice.


peds48 said:


> Why are you so surprised? This is not something new...
> 
> Lack of knowledge on the CSR part has always been the weakest link of DIRECTV®


If something "simple" like a reboot does not fix the problem (first step with any problem - reboot the machine) then it is probably not a problem a tech who answers the phone can fix.

Connectivity is demonstrated because some results are provided. The next step would be to see if other subscribers are having the problem ... which means logging the problem and waiting for someone else to call in and complain - hoping that someone else notices, complains and the logged problems get connected so the next level can see that there is a problem beyond the one subscriber.

My guess for the guide problem would be a problem on the server ... perhaps all the data did not load there. But getting the message to a tech who could see what was on the server is not likely to happen on the phone at any company the size of DirecTV. Too many people calling in who could fix their problems with a reboot or have a problem with their installation, Not so many people calling in about problems at the mothership.

A "next level" where someone actually has a receiver that they can test with would be nice ... but I doubt that would be immediate and the tester would get enough "it works for me" tests that it probably would not be worth doing the tests unless there were a lot of similar complaints.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

SledgeHammer said:


> What work-around do you suggest?
> 
> As I explained to you last time, there are some shows where I don't care to watch every episode. I like to pick and choose. So I do the "other showings" thing.
> 
> Yes, I can set a Season Pass to record thousands of episodes and then try to dig through to find ones that I want and spend an hour deleting all the ones I don't. Or I can just do it the "right way". I'm referring to old shows, not just new run eps. Season Pass would work fine for New Run Eps I guess.


I guess you'll have to do it everyday then.
or
Buy whichever episodes and/or seasons you want here..... http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004U3K9OA?ref_=atv_dp_season_select_s1


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

LOL... so th



James Long said:


> Unfortunately the thread starter did not have that experience ... and he is not the only one to notice.
> 
> If something "simple" like a reboot does not fix the problem (first step with any problem - reboot the machine) then it is probably not a problem a tech who answers the phone can fix.
> 
> ...


Exactly. There is no way to reach anybody who knows how to go Off Script.

DirecTV called me back and says they can't repro it. So I start rehashing everything I told the person yesterday and re-prove to the supervisor that it works exact how its being described to her. She even has flush & reboot the box and I again prove to her that the smart search does internet searches and doesn't use the local guide data. So she's like "How do you know all this and I don't? I've been working here 10 yrs!". So I tell her its all on DbsTalk LOL .


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

sigma1914 said:


> I guess you'll have to do it everyday then.
> or
> Buy whichever episodes and/or seasons you want here..... http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004U3K9OA?ref_=atv_dp_season_select_s1


So, instead of the service and the box that I am paying a lot of money for every month actually working correctly, your suggestion is to ignore that its not working correctly, keep paying for that service and now subscribe to another service to compensate?? Umm... good one... :righton:

And what do you suggest I do after Saturday?


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

I'm currently hooked to the internet with 52 airings out until April 24.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

So ... how did you get it fixed the last time? Wait a few days and it "magically" started working?


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

SledgeHammer said:


> So, instead of the service and the box that I am paying a lot of money for every month actually working correctly, your suggestion is to ignore that its not working correctly, keep paying for that service and now subscribe to another service to compensate?? Umm... good one... :righton:
> 
> And what do you suggest I do after Saturday?


I gave you options, you just didn't like them.

Another option - keep it off the internet.


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

sigma1914 said:


> I'm currently hooked to the internet with 52 airings out until April 24.


What model do you have? I have an HR24.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

SledgeHammer said:


> What model do you have? I have an HR24.


Used a HR44 & HR24.


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

James Long said:


> So ... how did you get it fixed the last time? Wait a few days and it "magically" started working?


No. DirecTV kept saying they couldn't reproduce it and they wanted to send a tech out. I instead asked to be sent over to case management. Case management was able to reproduce the issue on the floor.


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

sigma1914 said:


> Used a HR44 & HR24.


On your HR24 that is internet connected, you do a smart search for Pawn Stars and it gives you eps out to 4/24? Are you wired or wireless or deca or cck?

By the way, its quite odd that you only get 52 eps. When I do a disconnected search, I get ~100.

Are you filtering out SD eps?


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

[Quote and OT discussion removed by moderator]

Sigma, I'm going to start calling you Kevin . Kevin is my co-worker. I was troubleshooting a customer reported issue where they were doing a database search by last name, but only using the first letter (i.e. S should return Smith, Sampson, etc.) and it was timing out. Kevin is our database "expert". He asked me why I was doing something so dumb like searching by 1 character. I told him, I wasn't. The customer was. He said "tell the customer that's dumb". I said "No thanks, I'd rather keep my job -- besides its in the requirements". He said "I don't care where it is, its stupid and a f**king dumb requirement". So I just referred the customer to Kevin's boss and Kevin quickly decided it wasn't so dumb after all .


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

It's just HD.

Yes 52 out until 4/24...I scrolled down to check. My 44 is wired, giving the net to all units.

I've seen the issue you speak of, so I fully believe you.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

SledgeHammer said:


> So, once again, Smart Search is broken (if your box is connected to the internet, the Smart Search will only go up to 4/18 -- disconnect the box and it instantly goes to 4/23 as its supposed to) -- obviously because as we all know, when you are connected to the internet, it pulls guide data from the net and does searches in the cloud.
> 
> * Tech CSR has no clue the box pulls guide data from the net
> * Tech CSR has no clue the guide is supposed to go out 2 weeks
> ...


What tech support? D*'s laughable tech support? :rolling:

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

sigma1914 said:


> I remember you always bringing this up. You refuse to use Record Series for some odd reason right?


Yup, we've been thru this before, with the same _Pawn Stars_ search.

Rich


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

Rich said:


> Yup, we've been thru this before, with the same _Pawn Stars_ search.
> 
> Rich


LOL... yup. I just use Pawn Stars as my go to example because:

1) it has a ton of episodes every single day -- this eliminates having to convince DirecTV that there just aren't any airings past 4/18 
2) you only have to type 2 or 3 characters before it comes to the top of the smart search list

So, yeah, I could give them "The Six Million Dollar Man" to make them type a bunch of characters and have to convince them that it airs on Wednesday (I think) and so there should be two days of eps, not 1.

I could use The Big Bang Theory or Two and a half Men too I guess... just Pawn Stars is easy to type as mentioned in #2. I'm not trying to make DirecTVs life difficult, I just want the problem resolved.

And as Rich is fully aware from another thread, DirecTV *DID* recently resolve another one of my long term complaints . They finally came out with the Preferred Xtra package to replace my grandfathered Total Choice Plus minus a bunch of sports channels (ONLY) and that nasty RSN fee .

So aside from the Smart Search being broken, I have no other active complaints at this time ... aside from maybe wanting them to release the Genie 4K and some 4K content .


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Rich can hardly remember what he had for dinner last night. :rolling:

Rich


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

James Long said:


> So ... how did you get it fixed the last time? Wait a few days and it "magically" started working?





SledgeHammer said:


> No. DirecTV kept saying they couldn't reproduce it and they wanted to send a tech out. I instead asked to be sent over to case management. Case management was able to reproduce the issue on the floor.


So since the last time, Case Management was able to reproduce the problem, but it wasn't fixed? You said this happens every 3-4 months. So that infers that it works for a time and then doesn't. After Case Management reproduced it, what happened to fix the problem?


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## studechip (Apr 16, 2012)

harsh said:


> That's what the scripted system is supposed to avoid. CSRs aren't supposed to have to know anything outside of navigating the support system.
> 
> I think the problem more likely lies with the people who provide the scripts and the training to use them. Opening new or different support centers or demanding a higher level of front-line CSR can't fix this.


He wasn't talking about regular CSRs. He said he was talking to a level 1 tech CSR.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

studechip said:


> He wasn't talking about regular CSRs. He said he was talking to a level 1 tech CSR.


In all fairness, no matter how skilled the CSRs claim to be, I have yet to find one that really knows more than their script and this includes ISS....


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

trh said:


> So since the last time, Case Management was able to reproduce the problem, but it wasn't fixed? You said this happens every 3-4 months. So that infers that it works for a time and then doesn't. After Case Management reproduced it, what happened to fix the problem?


Case Management was able to reproduce the problem on the floor and I guess personally showed it to engineering who then fixed the problem. It was fixed on DirecTVs end. I've never had a truck roll, tech, box replacement, etc. I've been with DirecTV since 2002 and this only started happening in the last year or so.

Since the search happens in the cloud, the software engineer in me says its something like a hard to track down slow memory leak, drive fills ups, some other "hiccup" and instead of fixing the hiccup, they just clear everything out and reset and not fix the root problem. That's what we do at my company . We have really crappy DBAs that don't know how to troubleshoot anything "off script", so when a hiccup occurs, we just clear & reset.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

SledgeHammer said:


> Since the search happens in the cloud, the software engineer in me says its something like a hard to track down slow memory leak, drive fills ups, some other "hiccup" and instead of fixing the hiccup, they just clear everything out and reset and not fix the root problem. That's what we do at my company . We have really crappy DBAs that don't know how to troubleshoot anything "off script", so when a hiccup occurs, we just clear & reset.


So this is an acceptable solution for the industry, or so it seems. So DIRECTV® did the right thing here....moving on... :rotfl:


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

studechip said:


> He wasn't talking about regular CSRs. He said he was talking to a level 1 tech CSR.


Still 100x better then the AT&T CSR I had to report my land line is down to last week. Oh man. She didn't know *ANYTHING*.

When's the guy coming out?
6PM
The automated system said 8AM to 6PM
No, 6PM sir (he came out at 8 AM), by the way, would you like to drop DirecTV and switch to AT&T Uverse?

How much is this going to cost?
$145
But your automated system said its free
Oh, I meant $55, by the way, would you like to drop DirecTV and switch to AT&T Uverse?
But your automated system said its free
Let me check
(3 min hold)
Yeah, turns out its free, by the way, would you like to drop DirecTV and switch to AT&T Uverse?

LOL.. pretty much every sentence out of her mouth was either completely wrong information or trying to get me to switch to UVerse. I didn't have the heart to tell her that AT&T is trying to buy DirecTV .

And on top of that, he first question on the call was if I am ok with being up sold on services to which I specifically said "NO". I even reminded her of that twice and she kept ignoring my wishes to not be upsold.


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## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

MysteryMan said:


> CSR's are a luck of the draw. Some are savvy, some aren't. The first minute of conversation will clue you if they are knowledgeable. If they're not you're wasting your time continuing with them. Better to terminate the call and try again later.


Agree completely. I called with a question about the music channels a few years ago. The CSR had no idea about these audio only channels. After about one minute I said Thank You, hung up, and called again. Second CSR answered my questions.

I have long since switched to FiOS TV. Not happy about the upcoming change to Frontier as provider in California next year, but I've had almost four years good service with Verizon so far.


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

peds48 said:


> So this is an acceptable solution for the industry, or so it seems. So DIRECTV® did the right thing here....moving on... :rotfl:


Yes, it is. Can somebody please let the "sweep it under the rug guy" know it's time to sweep it under the rug again?


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

billsharpe said:


> Agree completely. I called with a question about the music channels a few years ago. The CSR had no idea about these audio only channels. After about one minute I said Thank You, hung up, and called again. Second CSR answered my questions.
> 
> I have long since switched to FiOS TV. Not happy about the upcoming change to Frontier as provider in California next year, but I've had almost four years good service with Verizon so far.


Yup. Try calling in with an issue about your AM21 . You won't even be able to find anybody who knows what it is.


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## Aridon (Mar 13, 2007)

I wouldn't say worse ever but D* and most large companies certainly do have some useless tech support.


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## studechip (Apr 16, 2012)

peds48 said:


> In all fairness, no matter how skilled the CSRs claim to be, I have yet to find one that really knows more than their script and this includes ISS....


I've only gone above the baseline CSR twice. Both times the guy was reasonably knowledgeable. He actually knew what he was talking about, not just spouting lines from a script.


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## makaiguy (Sep 24, 2007)

Think this is bad, try tech support at most ISPs...


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## HaterSlayer (Mar 24, 2010)

As a tech support CSR it's kinda messed up that so many people are generalizing us. Of course some are better than others, but that goes with any position. What may hurt the general experience with people on this forum is I doubt y'all call for simple stuff. Most calls daily are 775, 771, 721s and remote control issues. A mediocre CSR can get you through those calls all day. If you call in about an issue with something 95% of customers don't know about and 98% don't use then unless they find a script fast or have experience with it then you're probably gonna be in store for a long call.

Its impossible to train someone to handle every single thing that can go wrong with Directv service and fix it off the top of their heads. There are literally hundreds of scripts and that's just the tech support end. That isn't including billing and programming stuff as well. Before I took the job I thought I'd be telling people to reset receivers all day. It's way more than that.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

I understand that this is a complex system and don't expect every person I talk to at DIRECTV to know all the answers off the top of their head. 

But if I ask multiple CSRs the same question, I do expect the same answer (assuming I explained the situation clearly enough). And If they cant find the answer, i expect them to tell me that and not make up an answer just to get me off the phone.


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

HaterSlayer said:


> As a tech support CSR it's kinda messed up that so many people are generalizing us. Of course some are better than others, but that goes with any position. What may hurt the general experience with people on this forum is I doubt y'all call for simple stuff. Most calls daily are 775, 771, 721s and remote control issues. A mediocre CSR can get you through those calls all day. If you call in about an issue with something 95% of customers don't know about and 98% don't use then unless they find a script fast or have experience with it then you're probably gonna be in store for a long call.
> 
> Its impossible to train someone to handle every single thing that can go wrong with Directv service and fix it off the top of their heads. There are literally hundreds of scripts and that's just the tech support end. That isn't including billing and programming stuff as well. Before I took the job I thought I'd be telling people to reset receivers all day. It's way more than that.


I agree that you can't know everything. As I suggested earlier, have the majority of the tech support people be the script guys who can only handle remote control issues and then have a second line of defense with some better trained people. If you call Microsoft with a .NET programming question, you know how big and complex .NET is? Certainly a million times more complex (at least) then DirecTV. Once you get to the right group, the people are very knowledgeable. Yeah, they get paid a lot more I'm certain, but DirecTV should have some higher paid, better trained people for non standard issues. They don't. One person is just worse then the next. I've spoken to 4 people so far (2 CSRs and 2 sups) and I haven't even convinced any of them that 0x97f is real, much less that my actual issue is real.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

HaterSlayer said:


> As a tech support CSR it's kinda messed up that so many people are generalizing us. Of course some are better than others, but that goes with any position. What may hurt the general experience with people on this forum is I doubt y'all call for simple stuff. Most calls daily are 775, 771, 721s and remote control issues. A mediocre CSR can get you through those calls all day. If you call in about an issue with something 95% of customers don't know about and 98% don't use then unless they find a script fast or have experience with it then you're probably gonna be in store for a long call.
> 
> Its impossible to train someone to handle every single thing that can go wrong with Directv service and fix it off the top of their heads. There are literally hundreds of scripts and that's just the tech support end. That isn't including billing and programming stuff as well. Before I took the job I thought I'd be telling people to reset receivers all day. It's way more than that.


I hate the way some people tar everyone with the same brush. Thanks for your post. I was going to mention that most of the questions coming from members here would tend to be the more complex ones, and from people who are, in the main, more knowledgeable than non-members.

On the other hand, some of us pride ourselves in not calling for tech matters; we can find the information ourselves here and on the 'Net. Saves me time and DIRECTV® time and money.

I am guessing you are a few levels above the script readers!


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

I completely agree. I also don't blame the csrs for not knowing the latest firmware, I blame the head people in engineering that don't seem to push out this info to csrs fast enough in the first place.


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

Laxguy said:


> I hate the way some people tar everyone with the same brush. Thanks for your post. I was going to mention that most of the questions coming from members here would tend to be the more complex ones, and from people who are, in the main, more knowledgeable than non-members.
> 
> On the other hand, some of us pride ourselves in not calling for tech matters; we can find the information ourselves here and on the 'Net. Saves me time and DIRECTV® time and money.
> 
> I am guessing you are a few levels above the script readers!


Yup. I'm not saying my issue is not "complex". I'm more annoyed that there isn't really a way to get this resolved. I shouldn't need to spend 3 days on the phone. There should be someone who believes version 0x97f exists. There should be someone who understands smart searches happen in the cloud. If we can't get past those 3 basic things, this will never get resolved because the rug sweeper guy will never be told to sweep again. And seeing as I have to report this every 3 or 4 months, the rug sweeper guy should be told to get a better broom .


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

WOW!!!

I just called back for day #3. Starting to actually get pissed now LOL.

They wanted to send out a tech (and have me pay for it). They also offered me the protection plan (and have me pay for it).

Thier 3rd suggestion was that I contact Cox because it must be an ISP issue. OMG.

Just gave up and asked to transfer to Case Mgmt.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

I have a feeling part of the problem is that I believe the info comes from different servers in different parts of the country. So it may work one place and be bad another. 

I would be interested in knowing how they keep up with and check all the info all the time on these servers.

The truly important thing is that the receivers do record based on what is in the guide data locally I believe, and not being pulled from the Internet, so if you have series recordings set they won't get missed because of this.

Personally I'd write to the office of the president in very large detail of the issue and what all you know about it and what all you have a been through and then ask they really look internally, you just want it fixed... (Email address is in the link in my signature)

I take it you do this searching for multiple shows? How often do your do it? Once a day? Once a week? I'd still think just setting a series record and limiting it at say 5 would be easier than doing searches all the time, because then you are only going to have five to go through. And I am also assuming you look at your playlist once a day.... I can't see how that would be any slower than searching for all these shows all the time. In fact I'd expect it to be faster overall.

Or just get a raid 16tb drive and let it record everything. :lol:


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Crikey, mate!

You don't _*need*_ to do anything. There are other ways to set up recordings.

I would not write the President on this. Waste of your time and his staff's.

I would set up a record all, limit 10. Then when you find a show you've seen, delete it and watch the next. Repeat. Eventually, the manager will stop recording shows it's recently downloaded, and you'll get through them all in due course. With less hassle, even if it were working to your satisfaction.


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

inkahauts said:


> I have a feeling part of the problem is that I believe the info comes from different servers in different parts of the country. So it may work one place and be bad another.
> 
> I would be interested in knowing how they keep up with and check all the info all the time on these servers.
> 
> ...


So I got transfered to case mgmt . The phone rep I spoke to basically told me the same stuff that the normal tech guys do. Except he confirmed 0x97f is real . Although he pointed out it hasn't rolled out nationally yet. Just pacific and mountain. I don't think its related to that at all since its happened on a bunch of other versions too. I kind of persisted in the conversation and he went to ask an engineer he has on site and the engineer confirmed that when you are connected, it does the ENTIRE search on the cloud (to get VOD), so its an entirely different search path.

Now we are getting somewhere! 

The engineer also confirmed that Pawn Stars returns ~100 eps offline, but they were still trying to reproduce the online part and they didn't want to keep me on the line.

So I'm happy that someone who understands that its a different search path is looking into it now.

It happens on every show whether its 1 ep 2 weeks out or 1000 eps. Cloud search just goes up to 4/18.

I probably use Smart Search once or twice a week for 5 minutes at a time. I've got my system down pretty tight LOL, so I can set up all my recording in ~ 5 minutes. Letting it record everything and then deleting what I don't watch would take a lot longer and be more work as the drive would fill up fast.

Also, I haven't pointed this out yet, but one other reason I like to do this is, say in January I'm scrolling through the ep list and see Ep 2.34 and I'm not feeling watching that re-run today, so I move on... a few months later, I stumble across it again and at that time I'll feel like watching it or remember a few funny scenes that I FF too.

I never watch re-runs of Pawn Stars and I rarely watch re-runs of TBBT, but I might occasionally stumble across an ep of Good Times or That 70s Show or Boy Meets World that I haven't seen in a long time and record it.

For stuff I watch regularly, I just use the Other Showing feature and it even filters out by channel. Other stuff, I'll have in my recent searches folder, so thats pretty quick too.


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

Laxguy said:


> Crikey, mate!
> 
> You don't _*need*_ to do anything. There are other ways to set up recordings.
> 
> ...


Meh... I'd just block the DVR from the internet before I did that.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Laxguy said:


> Crikey, mate!
> 
> You don't _*need*_ to do anything. There are other ways to set up recordings.
> 
> ...


I disagree. I think the staff needs to know about this for several reasons. One is that the tech troubleshooter aren't being given the latest info in a timely matter and that's important no matter who calls in and what issue they are having.

It's especially important they know when new software is rolling out so they can find any major issues before it goes wide if it's a software issue.

The other is, this is an issue no matter how you slice it. It needs to be addressed. If they want to go cloud computing for searches and such Im fine with that, but they need to be at least as good as local, and how do you know that this one thing isn't also causing other issues, including speed issues possible, amount other things? They need to know, and someone who knows about all this, not a tech that isn't even being properly kept up to date.

I'd never do what he's doing, I would refer a way that I think is less work overall, but it affects any search it's an issue forms as well. And you. So I am glad he is finding it and harping on it at DIRECTV. And I think it's time he moved it up the food chain since it does seem to come and go.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Sledge, do you set any series to record on their own using first run? Or do you literally search for everything you watch and do each episode indivually?


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

inkahauts said:


> Sledge, do you set any series to record on their own using first run? Or do you literally search for everything you watch and do each episode indivually?


I did try it a long time ago and had it missing episodes all the time, so I created my manual process . Maybe they fixed it since then. I wonder if a Season Pass would work now??? Hmm... my guide is getting populated properly, so I guess it depends if the Season Pass records through the cloud or not. I don't mean they record on the cloud or download the ep from the cloud, I mean, I would expect Season Pass to go through the same search path that cloud search does. Otherwise, how would it know to pick up VOD eps? And for folks with Genies, that would probably be yet a entirely different 3rd search path -- it wouldn't make sense for every client to download from the internet. It would make more sense for the server to pull from the internet and the clients to pull from the server over DECA or what not. Not really sure how those scenarios play out.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

inkahauts said:


> I completely agree. I also don't blame the csrs for not knowing the latest firmware, I blame the head people in engineering that don't seem to push out this info to csrs fast enough in the first place.


100% agree.


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

I also agree with Sledge and Inky: if the service is inconsistent you can ignore it or bring it to their attention, and although bringing it to their attention cost him a lot of time and even the scorn of some members here who would have ignored it, I'm glad he reported it. Chances are this will eventually lead to better service for all of us, even those who would have turned a blind eye, and we can thank Sledge for that.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

SledgeHammer said:


> I did try it a long time ago and had it missing episodes all the time, so I created my manual process . Maybe they fixed it since then. I wonder if a Season Pass would work now??? Hmm... my guide is getting populated properly, so I guess it depends if the Season Pass records through the cloud or not. I don't mean they record on the cloud or download the ep from the cloud, I mean, I would expect Season Pass to go through the same search path that cloud search does. Otherwise, how would it know to pick up VOD eps? And for folks with Genies, that would probably be yet a entirely different 3rd search path -- it wouldn't make sense for every client to download from the internet. It would make more sense for the server to pull from the internet and the clients to pull from the server over DECA or what not. Not really sure how those scenarios play out.


You had it just missing episodes? Never had that issue myself. I suggest giving it another shot and don't mess with the to do list of any of the shows you set. Let it work its magic.

As far as I can ever tell...

They use the actual data on it to chose to record. And they do check at the last minute to make sure of any guide updates. Which is why you don't want to mess with it in the to do list.

As for Video On Demand it doesn't record Video On Demand via a season pass so not sure what you meant by that. Now if it's a genie it will play a Video On Demand episode of its needed to fill in a gap when using the play next feature.

And clients pull all data from the genie, so if it's a smart search then the genie performs the search via the Internet with its interface simply showing on the client TV. Or no internet if it's not Internet connected. The genies don't do anything.


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

inkahauts said:


> As for Video On Demand it doesn't record Video On Demand via a season pass so not sure what you meant by that. Now if it's a genie it will play a Video On Demand episode of its needed to fill in a gap when using the play next feature.


Oh, I don't use VOD, so I assumed a season pass can pick up VOD episodes too.

Yeah, I've seen various weird things:

1) program disappears from the TODO list (even though its still in the guide)
2) program disappears from the Now Playing List (I saw this once, and I think I was able to play it from the History)
3) 8:00 -> 8:01 and 8:01 to 8:30 type recordings
4) records wrong show


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

Drew2k said:


> I also agree with Sledge and Inky: if the service is inconsistent you can ignore it or bring it to their attention, and although bringing it to their attention cost him a lot of time and even the scorn of some members here who would have ignored it, I'm glad he reported it. Chances are this will eventually lead to better service for all of us, even those who would have turned a blind eye, and we can thank Sledge for that.


Yeah, if nobody reports it, how are they going to fix it? People tend to report high visibility features or features they heavily use. Most software companies don't have redonkulous amounts of QA, so the lesser used functionality gets broken a lot. I'm surprised DirecTV doesn't have redonkulous amounts of QA since they've got 20 million subs, thats a lot of end users. Personally, if it was me, I'd have tons of in house testing and regression testing before I pushed out software to 20 million users. But when you push out updates this often, you can't... I dunno about you guys, but I'd rather have say, quarterly updates that are rock solid vs. bi/tri-weekly updates that also introduce a ton of bugs.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

SledgeHammer said:


> I dunno about you guys, but I'd rather have say, quarterly updates that are rock solid vs. bi/tri-weekly updates that also introduce a ton of bugs.


The problem with that is if you release one bad update, you have to rush and fix that update. That rushed update will in turn have some bugs that needs to be rush to fix and goes on and on....


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## prushing (Feb 14, 2007)

Sledge, sounds like you need to get a really big external drive and setup series links and tell it to record everything. Then once it records the episode, it won't record it again. So you can then delete episodes you have already watched or remember.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

prushing said:


> Sledge, sounds like you need to get a really big external drive and setup series links and tell it to record everything. Then once it records the episode, it won't record it again. So you can then delete episodes you have already watched or remember.


He can do that in tranches, with his existing equipment, but he rejected that idea out of hand.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

SledgeHammer said:


> Oh, I don't use VOD, so I assumed a season pass can pick up VOD episodes too.
> 
> Yeah, I've seen various weird things:
> 
> ...


Yeah, I am sure they could set it up to do that, but they shouldn't, as vod is technically on a different channel. Auto starting it for play next on genies is more than enough IMHO. I think part of it is that they shouldn't be eating up peoples data for the month with a series recording.

I always say they need to get rid of the to do list because people look at it and worry to much and then try to correct what they think is wrong with it and then it really gets messed up....  Guide data changes and they don't chose what to record based on only what you see, there's additional info that is in the database that you never see that helps it chose what to record. Add that to ever changing guide data....

That second one was a bug and didn't have anything to do with it being in the series manager or just a manually set recording. I never experienced it myself....

The third one is most likely a guide data update issue, that's flat out caused by stupid networks trying to swindle an extra minute of higher ad dollars to ad buyers. Many networks change their airings at the last second, and that was the unit catching it as it was being changed... It wasn't on a hr21 was it? Those dang things are so slow.... And that can happen on a single record or a series record. I haven't seen it in a while, i think the networks have been making those changes farther in advance, and not doing them last minute for a while now, which helps a lot.

I have never had that issue that you listed for number 4. That's a new one on me.... Unless guide data was just wrong.

The only issues for me with using series managers are actually any shows that air immediately after a live sports event, like cbs shows on Sunday night during football season. Games run late, things change, and they cant get guide data out fast enough. And that is easy to fix, just add time to those paticular shows that are always on after those types of shows.

Another thing to watch for is programs that air international first, and wont record as first run here because of it. That's guide data never showing it airing as first run in the USA and Directv cant fix it.

I will say there are two weird things I see once or twice a year... a channel like SyFy will not flag a shows first airing as hd, and only the second airing, so the dvr will record the second airing, since its listed as HD and therefor has priority. Also it will record what may appear as the same episode twice, but if you look closely, they edited them differently because one has a lower rating than the other for language, etc... But there are no missed recordings for either of these situations, and one extra or duplicate recording to be on the safe side is not really an issue to me, based on knowing what its happening.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

I can"t wait to hear if you hear back again and what they tell you.


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

inkahauts said:


> I can"t wait to hear if you hear back again and what they tell you.


All the CM guy told me was that he talked to an on-site engineer who confirmed that connected / non-connected search goes through an entirely different search path which we already knew on dbstalk . He said the engineer also confirmed that off-line he got ~ 100 eps of Pawn Stars out to the 24th and that they were trying to get it "online". Maybe I misunderstood, but he made it sound like they don't have real physical DVRs, that they just have "VMware images" (emulators).


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

SledgeHammer said:


> All the CM guy told me was that he talked to an on-site engineer who confirmed that connected / non-connected search goes through an entirely different search path which we already knew on dbstalk . He said the engineer also confirmed that off-line he got ~ 100 eps of Pawn Stars out to the 24th and that they were trying to get it "online". Maybe I misunderstood, but he made it sound like they don't have real physical DVRs, that they just have "VMware images" (emulators).


If their developers are based outside the US, they wouldn't have the ability to run actual Directv receivers since the satellites don't point there.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Laxguy said:


> I hate the way some people tar everyone with the same brush. Thanks for your post. I was going to mention that most of the questions coming from members here would tend to be the more complex ones, and from people who are, in the main, more knowledgeable than non-members.
> 
> _*On the other hand, some of us pride ourselves in not calling for tech matters;*_ we can find the information ourselves here and on the 'Net. Saves me time and DIRECTV® time and money.
> 
> I am guessing you are a few levels above the script readers!


I'd still like to be able to make a call and get a quick, true answer. But, I gave up on that idea a long time ago. Not only with D*, but just about anybody these days. I'm beginning to think Netflix has the right idea, no technical support at all, just like most companies, but they admit it immediately.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

SledgeHammer said:


> WOW!!!
> 
> I just called back for day #3. Starting to actually get pissed now LOL.
> 
> ...


I gotta hand it to you. Your persistence is commendable.

Rich


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

Rich said:


> I gotta hand it to you. Your persistence is commendable.
> 
> Rich


Well, it worked. The issue has been resolved. As of last night, cloud search was only going out to 4/18. This morning, it goes out to 4/24 - 4/25. Hopefully this wasn't just a rug sweep . Besides, that 3rd call was @ work .


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

SledgeHammer said:


> Well, it worked. The issue has been resolved. As of last night, cloud search was only going out to 4/18. This morning, it goes out to 4/24 - 4/25. Hopefully this wasn't just a rug sweep . Besides, that 3rd call was @ work .


Keep that case managers name. If it happens again, I'd call and speak to him only. Enough times of it happening again they might move it up in the priority list if it happens often enough.

Of course I'm hoping they just flat out fixed it..


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

slice1900 said:


> If their developers are based outside the US, they wouldn't have the ability to run actual Directv receivers since the satellites don't point there.


Pretty sure all the people that deal with this are in house and U.S. Based. Not sure about NDS but since they are all about access cards and not the guide and software....


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## Kaiser Bob (Aug 17, 2012)

peds48 said:


> In all fairness, no matter how skilled the CSRs claim to be, I have yet to find one that really knows more than their script and this includes ISS....


There are no scripts for ISS.


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## jle1639 (Apr 15, 2013)

I HAVE NO PROBLEMS WITH THE CSR. SOME PEOPLES CAN 'T BE PLEASE.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Kaiser Bob said:


> There are no scripts for ISS.


So I guess their training is lacking then....

Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk


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## Kaiser Bob (Aug 17, 2012)

peds48 said:


> So I guess their training is lacking then....
> 
> Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk


Not trying to derail this thread but that's a broad brush you paint the department with...


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

jle1639 said:


> I HAVE NO PROBLEMS WITH THE CSR. SOME PEOPLES CAN 'T BE PLEASE.


It all depends on what the issue is. If it's what the vast majority of their calls are, it really isn't an issue. If it's something more, that can't be solved here, that's where you can run into trouble.

I once had a Dell laptop that I was able to get Gold tech support on. Cost $100 or so, but the times I did call in was well worth it. Went straight to an actual tech in Tennessee or Texas that was at least A+ certified.

I'd pay for going straight to a level two rep.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

dpeters11 said:


> I'd pay for going straight to a level two rep.


why would we have to pay for support? Don't we pay enough money already for their services?

Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

peds48 said:


> why would we have to pay for support? Don't we pay enough money already for their services?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk


If I got a tech that didn't have a script or tree they had to follow and having to say "yes, it's turned on" etc, then yes I'd actually pay for a higher level of support. Or being able to just send a CCK instead of having to wait for yet another installer to come and say they can't do it. I don't really call in, but the few times I have have been frustrating. Probably the last time I called in was when the rep said there was no guarantee I'd get a Genie to replace my bad one, and I had to go through a lot to get them to replace it when it was overheating.

Or include it as a perk of the Protection Plan. It used to be that it seemed like you got a better level of csr with it, don't think it's true now.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

peds48 said:


> why would we have to pay for support? Don't we pay enough money already for their services?


If I didn't do my own installs I would pay a local reseller who I know and trust instead of calling the national toll free and hoping for the best. I also pay more for 90% lean beef than I do 80% lean ... sometimes it is worth it to pay for a better result.


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## 242424 (Mar 22, 2012)




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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

James Long said:


> If I didn't do my own installs I would pay a local reseller who I know and trust instead of calling the national toll free and hoping for the best. I also pay more for 90% lean beef than I do 80% lean ... sometimes it is worth it to pay for a better result.


Perhaps what you are looking for isn't covered under the "basic professional installation". If what you are looking for is to have cables fished and TVs mounted you indeed need to pay for that, not because because the tech is lazy or what not, but because it just isn't covered under the service requested. For the majority of subs, the basic install covers everything that needs to get done.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

peds48 said:


> ... not because because the tech is lazy or what not ...


Not an accusation that I made ... please dial back the sensitivity knob.

There is nothing wrong with paying more for a service because you know you will get better service. I agree that one should not need to pay extra for a basic install completed within the provider's acceptable standards. But that is not the level of service I am looking for.

The specific local installer I have in mind is someone I would have called if I had a problem with a CSR. "I am having problems with the system you installed. I know it isn't a problem you caused, but can you help me get this solved?" Not legally his responsibility, but he is a man who stands behind what he sells.

And that is not a bad thing.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

James Long said:


> Not an accusation that I made ... please dial back the sensitivity knob.


No accusations were taken personally or otherwise.... Sensitivity level has always been set to 1.. :rotfl:

It appears that you and I are on the same page. I also agree that if you want a service that goes above and beyond of what is provided at the basic level from the service provider there should be a fee. IOW, if you want "front of the line" (no hold times) treatment and perhaps special accommodations (same day appointments), etc. What I don't agree is paying a fee so we can get that basic service that is included as part of the service, IOW, if you have an issue with the service being provided, that a reasonably attempt is made to try to rectify it in a timely and reasonably manner.

***Disclaimer***
When "service" is mentioned, is does not necessarily means DIRECTV® but any relationship between you and someone you do business with.


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

peds48 said:


> if you have an issue with the service being provided, that a reasonably attempt is made to try to rectify it in a timely and reasonably manner.


Yeah, so when it takes 5 phone calls to reach somebody who understands the system just because they tested it based on your report, that's pretty bad. CM was actually ready to give up LOL, but I was persistent and thats when he reached out to the engineer. The fact that one CSR even tried to charge me $55 for a service call (or upsell me to the useless PP) was absurd and insulting. I remember when I took the free equipment upgrade to upgrade my HR20 -> HR24, I said, well, hey, since you say they are 100% equivalent (they aren't), can you help me out with the AM21? Took me 3 or 4 people before I reached one who even knew what an AM21 was. Then another 2 or 3 people, includng a supervisor, couldn't even get the system to allow them to order me an AM21 at any price. That's bad.


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## sangs (Apr 2, 2008)

James Long said:


> If I didn't do my own installs I would pay a local reseller who I know and trust instead of calling the national toll free and hoping for the best. I also pay more for 90% lean beef than I do 80% lean ... sometimes it is worth it to pay for a better result.


Sure, if you like tasteless beef it's worth it. I'm an 80 percenter myself.


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

sangs said:


> Sure, if you like tasteless beef it's worth it. I'm an 80 percenter myself.


I get the 96/4's from Trader Joes. Tastes just fine to me and keeps my artery signal strength high . But it is like $1.20 a patty. There's a reason why McDonalds can sell you a full burger for $1. There's actually very little real beef there.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Kaiser Bob said:


> Not trying to derail this thread but that's a broad brush you paint the department with...


No it's not. The CSRs, just like the CSRs you get from any service these days, are terrible. How's that for a "broad brush"?

Rich


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Add a tablespoon of cinnamon to something you eat each day (for breakfast, probably) Even though I eat a pretty decent diet and workout regularly, I'd always had "borderline" cholesterol. The doctor said it wasn't something I needed to worry about since the number was so high mainly because my good cholesterol was extremely high, but I also had borderline high triglyceride.

I heard about cinnamon and since I like it anyway I added that to a bowl of oatmeal I typically have for breakfast. When I went for my regular checkup six months later my TC dropped by 30% and my Tg by almost 70%. My doctor wanted to know what I was doing differently, and I told him and he said he's aware of some research looking into that. I'm sure the companies that sell the expensive statins won't be happy if this is proven out by the studies and people can buy $5 worth of cinnamon every few months


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## Kaiser Bob (Aug 17, 2012)

Rich said:


> No it's not. The CSRs, just like the CSRs you get from any service these days, are terrible. How's that for a "broad brush"?
> 
> Rich


I was referring to ISS specifically. As for CS, that's a common sentiment and I've had my own negative experiences with DTV CS and several other companies, its a first world problem we all share.

Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Kaiser Bob said:


> Not trying to derail this thread but that's a broad brush you paint the department with...


When every single experience with such department is poor, I don't have a wide enough brush to paint them with....


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

slice1900 said:


> Add a tablespoon of cinnamon to something you eat each day


Would that help before calling a CSR and hoping for a acceptable resolution?


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

peds48 said:


> When every single experience with such department is poor, I don't have a wide enough brush to paint them with....


Well, it works the other way too IMO. Sometimes you just need something simple and the person goes overboard to the point of being annoying.

I had the original "faulty" dish mount that wasn't able to support the big dish. So every couple of years it would get out of alignment. So the tech could have just re-aimed the dish and left, but instead he decided to change the mount. Ok, great. Now I'll never have to call them back. I appreciated it so far. Then he decided that he needed to re-run all my RG6 cables. New multi-switch as well. Started to get annoyed at this point because a 30 min service call was no 4 hours. He also decided that he didn't like me multiplexing in an OTA signal on one of the lines (which requires moving one of the b-bands up to the attic), so he couldn't just disconnect my OTA antenna by unscrewing the cable, no, he had to cut it.

So at the end, yeah, I had a solid dish mount / bird sanctuary now (the new under-eave mount is great for bird nests!), I also have to go out and buy a coax crimper and coax connectors to reconnect my OTA, he also confiscated my multiplexer and diplexer. So I had to replace those too. And I had to repaint a few walls.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

SledgeHammer said:


> Well, it works the other way too IMO. Sometimes you just need something simple and the person goes overboard to the point of being annoying.
> 
> I had the original "faulty" dish mount that wasn't able to support the big dish. So every couple of years it would get out of alignment. So the tech could have just re-aimed the dish and left, but instead he decided to change the mount. Ok, great. Now I'll never have to call them back. I appreciated it so far. Then he decided that he needed to re-run all my RG6 cables. New multi-switch as well. Started to get annoyed at this point because a 30 min service call was no 4 hours. He also decided that he didn't like me multiplexing in an OTA signal on one of the lines (which requires moving one of the b-bands up to the attic), so he couldn't just disconnect my OTA antenna by unscrewing the cable, no, he had to cut it.
> 
> So at the end, yeah, I had a solid dish mount / bird sanctuary now (the new under-eave mount is great for bird nests!), I also have to go out and buy a coax crimper and coax connectors to reconnect my OTA, he also confiscated my multiplexer and diplexer. So I had to replace those too. And I had to repaint a few walls.


Diplexing is not DIRECTV® approved, so while I would have not cut the OTA cable, I would def remove the diplexer and "confiscated" (thrown away) it in an effort to prevent future use and of course inform you on such "violation". This is what happens when you use non approved materials.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

peds48 said:


> Diplexing is not DIRECTV® approved, so while I would have not cut the OTA cable, I would def remove the diplexer and "confiscated" (thrown away) it in an effort to prevent future use and of course inform you on such "violation". This is what happens when you use non approved materials.


I'd be REALLY pissed if an installer stole something I owned just because he's unhappy I'm doing something that's not "Directv approved". I'd rather you say "I refuse to work on your system because you've obviously modified it yourself" than not only removing something I had obviously deliberately set up but going so far as to steal my property! If you're going to do that, why not just yank out the antenna and toss it down on the ground while you're at it?

Your supervisor, his supervisor and the 'Office of the President' would hear about it if someone tried to pull something like that with me.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Anyone who would disconnect a diplexier (or anything of that nature) from a customers system and take it with them or throw it away should flat out be fired. It's no different than taking money form the guys wallet while he isn't looking. It's pure theft and destruction of property. disconnecting it and handing it to him and saying, this isn't approved and I can't leave it in place because its policy and could be causing your issue is totally understandable. Taking it with him? Not in any scenario is that acceptable.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

slice1900 said:


> I'd be REALLY pissed if an installer stole something I owned just because he's unhappy I'm doing something that's not "Directv approved". I'd rather you say "I refuse to work on your system because you've obviously modified it yourself" than not only removing something I had obviously deliberately set up but going so far as to steal my property! If you're going to do that, why not just yank out the antenna and toss it down on the ground while you're at it?
> 
> Your supervisor, his supervisor and the 'Office of the President' would hear about it if someone tried to pull something like that with me.


Relax..... turn your sensitivity level down a bit.... This is/was hypothetical.....

If you were on the field you would be more understandable


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

peds48 said:


> Diplexing is not DIRECTV® approved, so while I would have not cut the OTA cable, I would def remove the diplexer and "confiscated" (thrown away) it in an effort to prevent future use and of course inform you on such "violation". This is what happens when you use non approved materials.


If you were a mechanic and I brought my car into your shop, but it had a straight pipe exhaust, would you disconnect it and throw it away because its not "DOT approved"? Sorry, but this idiot installer stole from me and damaged my property by *cutting* the cable. If I was doing something on a system that was physically connected like a cable system, that's a different story...


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

inkahauts said:


> Anyone who would disconnect a diplexier (or anything of that nature) from a customers system and take it with them or throw it away should flat out be fired. It's no different than taking money form the guys wallet while he isn't looking. It's pure theft and destruction of property. disconnecting it and handing it to him and saying, this isn't approved and I can't leave it in place because its policy and could be causing your issue is totally understandable. Taking it with him? Not in any scenario is that acceptable.


I was more pissed that he cut the freakin' cable. You're OK with wasting 4hrs rewiring my house for no reason, but you can't take 10 seconds to UNSCREW the cable? I probably spent $60 - $80 (crimper is expensive, coax connectors, RG6 stripper, new multiplexor / diplexor) repairing his mess.

Besides, if you can't find anybody at DirecTV that knows what an AM21 is, or if you have to spend 3 hours on the phone and talk to 7 people to try to convince them their system is down, I imagine, you'd have a much harder time finding anybody who actually knows what a multiplexor or OTA is, much less care that an installer stole / damaged one.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

SledgeHammer said:


> If you were a mechanic and I brought my car into your shop, but it had a straight pipe exhaust, would you disconnect it and throw it away because its not "DOT approved"? Sorry, but this idiot installer stole from me and damaged my property by *cutting* the cable. If I was doing something on a system that was physically connected like a cable system, that's a different story...


is the mechanic liable or is the manufacturer (and its direct employees) of the car for not following code?

Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

SledgeHammer said:


> I was more pissed that he cut the freakin' cable. You're OK with wasting 4hrs rewiring my house for no reason, but you can't take 10 seconds to UNSCREW the cable? I probably spent $60 - $80 (crimper is expensive, coax connectors, RG6 stripper, new multiplexor / diplexor) repairing his mess.
> 
> Besides, if you can't find anybody at DirecTV that knows what an AM21 is, or if you have to spend 3 hours on the phone and talk to 7 people to try to convince them their system is down, I imagine, you'd have a much harder time finding anybody who actually knows what a multiplexor or OTA is, much less care that an installer stole / damaged one.


you should of call Directv and explain the situation. They would of send another tech out to fix the damage.

Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

peds48 said:


> is the mechanic liable or is the manufacturer (and its direct employees) of the car for not following code?


Is the DirecTV tech liable for anything by letting me multiplex? As others have stated, it would have been one thing to just disconnect the "illegal" bits. Another thing to cut / take. Since this was a dish re-aim that turned into a mount swap, he shouldn't have even been in my house to begin with. This is one of the reasons myself (and many others on this forum) hate truck rolls.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

peds48 said:


> When every single experience with such department is poor, I don't have a wide enough brush to paint them with....


I have consistently bad experiences with installers, but that doesn't mean good ones aren't out there. Though they probably don't work for Multiband, at least in this area.


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## Bill Broderick (Aug 25, 2006)

inkahauts said:


> Taking it with him? Not in any scenario is that acceptable.


I have to agree. Disconnecting unapproved equipment and giving it to the homeowner is understandable. However, destruction of the coax to which the unapproved equipment was connected and disposal/removal of the unapproved equipment and only be described as vandalism & theft.


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

dpeters11 said:


> I have consistently bad experiences with installers, but that doesn't mean good ones aren't out there. Though they probably don't work for Multiband, at least in this area.


LOL, I do have one other story... when I first got my dish installed (its on a two story roof) back in the day with indy installers, the guy didn't have a two story ladder (???), so he ended up duct taping two ladders together... yeah, DUCT TAPING... in hind site, I probably shouldn't have let him do that... nowadays, the guys won't even climb up to my dish without putting the ladder in the neighbors yard and going over the fence because they say my side "yard" is too narrow and the angle is too steep.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

slice1900 said:


> Add a tablespoon of cinnamon to something you eat each day (for breakfast, probably) Even though I eat a pretty decent diet and workout regularly, I'd always had "borderline" cholesterol. The doctor said it wasn't something I needed to worry about since the number was so high mainly because my good cholesterol was extremely high, but I also had borderline high triglyceride.
> 
> I heard about cinnamon and since I like it anyway I added that to a bowl of oatmeal I typically have for breakfast. When I went for my regular checkup six months later my TC dropped by 30% and my Tg by almost 70%. My doctor wanted to know what I was doing differently, and I told him and he said he's aware of some research looking into that. I'm sure the companies that sell the expensive statins won't be happy if this is proven out by the studies and people can buy $5 worth of cinnamon every few months


Interesting, but to whom did you address this to?

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

inkahauts said:


> Anyone who would disconnect a diplexier (or anything of that nature) from a customers system and take it with them or throw it away should flat out be fired. It's no different than taking money form the guys wallet while he isn't looking. It's pure theft and destruction of property. disconnecting it and handing it to him and saying, this isn't approved and I can't leave it in place because its policy and could be causing your issue is totally understandable. Taking it with him? Not in any scenario is that acceptable.


I can't wait to read the next post.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

SledgeHammer said:


> I was more pissed that he cut the freakin' cable. You're OK with wasting 4hrs rewiring my house for no reason, but you can't take 10 seconds to UNSCREW the cable? I probably spent $60 - $80 (crimper is expensive, coax connectors, RG6 stripper, new multiplexor / diplexor) repairing his mess.
> 
> Besides, if you can't find anybody at DirecTV that knows what an AM21 is, or if you have to spend 3 hours on the phone and talk to 7 people to try to convince them their system is down, I imagine, you'd have a much harder time finding anybody who actually knows what a multiplexor or OTA is, much less care that an installer stole / damaged one.


I should take pictures of the expressions on installers' faces (and their supervisors') when they see my system. I follow them around very carefully when they're in the house. Something everyone should do when contractors are in the house.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

dpeters11 said:


> I have consistently bad experiences with installers, but that doesn't mean good ones aren't out there. Though they probably don't work for Multiband, at least in this area.


I have no problems with Multi-Band, but I know the supervisor that sends the installers out and he warns them to just do what I want and not to question me, or so it seems. Pretty big churn rate in installers here and I really don't feel like explaining what I've done to each installer that comes out. I like truck rolls, BTW.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

SledgeHammer said:


> LOL, I do have one other story... when I first got my dish installed (its on a two story roof) back in the day with indy installers, the guy didn't have a two story ladder (???), so he ended up duct taping two ladders together... yeah, DUCT TAPING... in hind site, I probably shouldn't have let him do that... nowadays, the guys won't even climb up to my dish without putting the ladder in the neighbors yard and going over the fence because they say my side "yard" is too narrow and the angle is too steep.


They're probably right, the ladder rules do include extension or straight ladders and the distance from the structure at the base of the ladder. And, yeah, you really shouldn't have let him tape the ladders together. I'm glad those independent guys are gone. The first dish I got, the guy had his kid with him and was about to let his kid climb up on the roof. That's just wrong. He was kinda upset about that, but I know better than to let someone else's kid up on my roof.

Rich


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Rich said:


> I have no problems with Multi-Band, but I know the supervisor that sends the installers out and he warns them to just do what I want and not to question me, or so it seems. Pretty big churn rate in installers here and I really don't feel like explaining what I've done to each installer that comes out. I like truck rolls, BTW.
> 
> Rich


If the multiband guys here would just follow my instructions on how to set things up, it would be a much better experience for everyone. I will say, if my HR34 went out, I'd probably go for a truck roll just to have a better chance at a 44, and they should at least know how to do that, if they won't just let me take over the install.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

SledgeHammer said:


> I was more pissed that he cut the freakin' cable. You're OK with wasting 4hrs rewiring my house for no reason, but you can't take 10 seconds to UNSCREW the cable? I probably spent $60 - $80 (crimper is expensive, coax connectors, RG6 stripper, new multiplexor / diplexor) repairing his mess.
> 
> Besides, if you can't find anybody at DirecTV that knows what an AM21 is, or if you have to spend 3 hours on the phone and talk to 7 people to try to convince them their system is down, I imagine, you'd have a much harder time finding anybody who actually knows what a multiplexor or OTA is, much less care that an installer stole / damaged one.


AM21s are created for a specific scenario in DIRECTV. That scenario is almost completely gone at this point so having people know about them is going to be a one off. If you have local channels in your market then it wouldn't even be a discussion with them as the only way you can get one is online, or a dealer, so the agent wouldn't pull up any information to tell you.

One thing people always seem to forget is that this is a place for enthusiasts. I can guarantee you that the people on here who really want to know this will know more than the majority of employees you will ever speak with.


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

Shades228 said:


> AM21s are created for a specific scenario in DIRECTV. That scenario is almost completely gone at this point so having people know about them is going to be a one off. If you have local channels in your market then it wouldn't even be a discussion with them as the only way you can get one is online, or a dealer, so the agent wouldn't pull up any information to tell you.
> 
> One thing people always seem to forget is that this is a place for enthusiasts. I can guarantee you that the people on here who really want to know this will know more than the majority of employees you will ever speak with.


OTA is gone? I probably get about 20 to 30 sub channels. Most of them are useless, but I use 2 for This Old House and Ask This Old House and 5.1 has a ton of classic shows like Good Times, Knight Rider, Diff'rent Strokes, CHiPs... even Small Wonder LOL.


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

Rich said:


> They're probably right, the ladder rules do include extension or straight ladders and the distance from the structure at the base of the ladder. And, yeah, you really shouldn't have let him tape the ladders together. I'm glad those independent guys are gone. The first dish I got, the guy had his kid with him and was about to let his kid climb up on the roof. That's just wrong. He was kinda upset about that, but I know better than to let someone else's kid up on my roof.
> 
> Rich


I don't want the guy to fall off, obviously... but the "by the book guys" are just as bad. They are still indy guys, just have a DirecTV magnet on thier trucks.

I would have loved to see the face on tech when I asked him to debug the software on the box .


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

Shades228 said:


> AM21s are created for a specific scenario in DIRECTV. That scenario is almost completely gone at this point so having people know about them is going to be a one off. If you have local channels in your market then it wouldn't even be a discussion with them as the only way you can get one is online, or a dealer, so the agent wouldn't pull up any information to tell you.


The AM21 is still listed on DIRECTV's equipment page under accessories. Why shouldn't the CSR's know all about this piece of equipment?


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

SledgeHammer said:


> Is the DirecTV tech liable for anything by letting me multiplex?


absolutely!

Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Shades228 said:


> AM21s are created for a specific scenario in DIRECTV. That scenario is almost completely gone at this point so having people know about them is going to be a one off. If you have local channels in your market then it wouldn't even be a discussion with them as the only way you can get one is online, or a dealer, so the agent wouldn't pull up any information to tell you.


Directv delivers hardly any subchannels, but the number of those are increasing constantly in most markets. In the Cubs/White Sox blackout areas, subchannels just became a lot more important to their fans because all the games that used to be on WGN America are now carried OTA - in many areas on subchannels not main channels so OTA is the only choice as you won't get those games even with MLBEI.

Maybe CSRs don't need to know about AM21 off the top of their head since it is a niche product, but if a customer mentions they have an AM21 CSRs should have a way to quickly search for that term, learn what it is, and if necessary transfer the customer to someone who can help them. The same should be true if the customer has a grandfathered channel package, a niche international package, etc.


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

slice1900 said:


> Directv delivers hardly any subchannels, but the number of those are increasing constantly in most markets. In the Cubs/White Sox blackout areas, subchannels just became a lot more important to their fans because all the games that used to be on WGN America are now carried OTA - in many areas on subchannels not main channels so OTA is the only choice as you won't get those games even with MLBEI.
> 
> Maybe CSRs don't need to know about AM21 off the top of their head since it is a niche product, but if a customer mentions they have an AM21 CSRs should have a way to quickly search for that term, learn what it is, and if necessary transfer the customer to someone who can help them. The same should be true if the customer has a grandfathered channel package, a niche international package, etc.


Well, I just went from a well known grandfathered package (Total Choice+) to a barely known current, undocumented package (Preferred Xtra).

Also, try asking technical questions about 4K. 3 or 4 months ago, I called in asking if there was a way to get the RVU fee waived since I just have one TV and the guy didn't know about any of that stuff... the RVU requirement, 4K, etc.

If you aren't calling in for a remote control programming issue, pretty much, good luck ...


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

SledgeHammer said:


> OTA is gone? I probably get about 20 to 30 sub channels. Most of them are useless, but I use 2 for This Old House and Ask This Old House and 5.1 has a ton of classic shows like Good Times, Knight Rider, Diff'rent Strokes, CHiPs... even Small Wonder LOL.


I never said OTA is gone I said the AM21 was created for a specific scenario and that scenario is almost gone. The AM21 is for customer's who live in DMA's that DIRECTV does not carry local stations. It was not created to get every OTA channel that there is in a DMA for every customer.



trh said:


> The AM21 is still listed on DIRECTV's equipment page under accessories. Why shouldn't the CSR's know all about this piece of equipment?


It is only available for you to view on the webpage. They cannot be ordered in markets with local stations over the phone. If the agent knows enough they could find the information on this but ultimately it would refer them to an order which you wouldn't qualify for. This is by design not by ignorance. What you're wanting is DIRECTV to support and have information on AM21's for all customer's and DIRECTV clearly doesn't want to. Ultimately there's no reason for agents to know about all of this equipment. They're job is to find out options and place the order for it. Placing an order however does not mean creating an itemized list for every component and ensuring compatibility. Almost all of that is done systemically and any changes needed in the field are done by technicians.

I consider a bad csr when they have a bad attitude or when they give me wrong information and refuse to check into it if I ask them to.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

dpeters11 said:


> If the multiband guys here would just follow my instructions on how to set things up, it would be a much better experience for everyone. I will say, if my HR34 went out, I'd probably go for a truck roll just to have a better chance at a 44, and they should at least know how to do that, if they won't just let me take over the install.


The supervisor for our local contractor has seen my system, so when he sends someone out they know it's not gonna be a normal call. One look at the first SWM16 and I get told that it's wired wrong and can't possibly work. Then they see the next SWM16 that is downstream from an amplifier I installed and they really get confused. What confuses them even more is when they ask me how I knew how to do this. Always give them the same answer: I know a guy who knows more about D* than you, your supervisors or I know and I follow plans very carefully. I've never taken credit for doing anything but follow the plans that were sent to me.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Shades228 said:


> AM21s are created for a specific scenario in DIRECTV. That scenario is almost completely gone at this point so having people know about them is going to be a one off. If you have local channels in your market then it wouldn't even be a discussion with them as the only way you can get one is online, or a dealer, so the agent wouldn't pull up any information to tell you.
> 
> One thing people always seem to forget is that this is a place for enthusiasts. _*I can guarantee you that the people on here who really want to know this will know more than the majority of employees you will ever speak with.*_


Truth. Well said.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

SledgeHammer said:


> I don't want the guy to fall off, obviously... but the "by the book guys" are just as bad. They are still indy guys, just have a DirecTV magnet on thier trucks.
> 
> I would have loved to see the face on tech when I asked him to debug the software on the box .


Those guys that go by the book brings up a lot of things. If they're just nitpicky I can understand that. It's usually done by someone who isn't yet comfortable in the job and just relies on what he's been told. They get virtually no training when they start. If they're adhering to a set of rules that are set in stone, such as the ladder thing you brought up, they're protecting themselves from injury, protecting their company from liability, in other words, doing the correct thing.

I had a CSR send a guy to the house with a "sound card" when I first got D*. I had a unit that wouldn't put out sound of any kind. When the guy got there, I asked him if had a sound card with him and he started laughing. Said he wouldn't know what to do with one if he actually had one. He gave me a replacement that worked properly.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

trh said:


> The AM21 is still listed on DIRECTV's equipment page under accessories. Why shouldn't the CSR's know all about this piece of equipment?


Me: I'm having problems with a 20-700.

CSR: What's a 20-700?

Actual conversation I had with a PP CSR. That was when I gave up on calling and asking for the PP CSRs.

Rich


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

Rich said:


> Me: I'm having problems with a 20-700.
> 
> CSR: What's a 20-700?
> 
> ...


Tbh, I wouldn't expect a CSR to know what a "20-700" is. I'd expect them to know what an "HR20" is. I wouldn't expect anybody you could talk to on the phone to know that there are different HR20s. These are folks, after all, who are told HR20 = HR24. I'd say the fact the HR20 has built in OTA and the HR24 doesn't kills that argument before it even starts. Never mind the CPU, size, etc. DirecTV employees are told apples and oranges are the same thing, I think.

To my original issue, I wouldn't expect a front line CSR to know searches happen in the cloud, but I would expect them to know searches should work 2 weeks out.

I'd also kind of expect them to try to use a LITTLE common sense to tell the difference between hardware & software issues. Even to just assume.

Everything would be fixed with a level 2 support for the non scripted issues.

For all I know, DirecTVs strategy could be:

* 25% of calls are remote control programming questions
* 50% of calls can be fixed by rebooting the box
* 10% of calls can be fixed by a factory reset
* 10% of calls need a new box or service call
* 5% of calls have advanced / complex problems that they aren't really going to worry about and if they lose a customer over it, oh well...

Or something along those lines . So if that's the thought process, I guess that explains why they don't have level 2.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

SledgeHammer said:


> Tbh, I wouldn't expect a CSR to know what a "20-700" is. I'd expect them to know what an "HR20" is. I wouldn't expect anybody you could talk to on the phone to know that there are different HR20s. These are folks, after all, who are told HR20 = HR24. I'd say the fact the HR20 has built in OTA and the HR24 doesn't kills that argument before it even starts. Never mind the CPU, size, etc. DirecTV employees are told apples and oranges are the same thing, I think.


Let me make this clear: I have no idea how many 20-700s I've had, but I don't know anyone else who's had as many since late 2006. I've always used that term when calling for a replacement and never had one CSR who didn't know what a 20-700 was until that call I referenced in my previous post. You might not expect a CSR to know what a 20-700 is, but I certainly do. This happened after they (D*) dumbed down the PP CSRs by siphoning off all the good ones for the CMG.

Rich


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

I wouldn't be surprised if the newest csrs don't run into HR20-700 hardly ever anymore. They are pretty old and at this point are likely either running forever or have been replaced. But they sure aren't sending them out anymore. 

Granted I can only imagine if someone called in about a hr10-250.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

Rich said:


> Let me make this clear: I have no idea how many 20-700s I've had, but I don't know anyone else who's had as many since late 2006. I've always used that term when calling for a replacement and never had one CSR who didn't know what a 20-700 was until that call I referenced in my previous post. You might not expect a CSR to know what a 20-700 is, but I certainly do. This happened after they (D*) dumbed down the PP CSRs by siphoning off all the good ones for the CMG.
> 
> Rich


It's more of an agent who didn't know to just agree with what you said and then look into the options at hand.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Rich said:


> You might not expect a CSR to know what a 20-700 is, but I certainly do.


To even a "knowledgeable" CSR, omitting the HR element of the model designation is kinda mean-spirited.

As a matter of interest, I did a Google search on H20-700 and all but one reference was actually to the HR20-700 where the poster botched the model designation.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Right, there was the famous (infamous) H20-600 and the -100 but no 700.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Shades228 said:


> It's more of an agent who didn't know to just agree with what you said and then look into the options at hand.


She was totally clueless. And the sad thing is, she wasn't the worst CSR I ever talked to, but that's another story for another time.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

dpeters11 said:


> Right, there was the famous (infamous) H20-600 and the -100 but no 700.


Thanx, that was beginning to frustrate me. Surprised _*Harsh *_didn't know that. As much time as he spends here he should have known. As should any decent CSR.

Rich


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Rich said:


> Thanx, that was beginning to frustrate me. Surprised _*Harsh *_didn't know that. As much time as he spends here he should have known. As should any decent CSR.
> 
> Rich


The sad thing is we probably have some better resources to look up things than they do. If I need to remind myself of a variant, I just go to the Firmware monitor on RedH.


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

dpeters11 said:


> The sad thing is we probably have some better resources to look up things than they do. If I need to remind myself of a variant, I just go to the Firmware monitor on RedH.


I wouldn't say that. They get real release notes for the different software versions. At least the CM guy I talked to did. We don't get that. Everytime I see release notes on here its pretty much "random improvements under the covers" . Occasionally they list more info. But the CM guy rattled off about 10 - 20 changes from the info he had for 97f.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

SledgeHammer said:


> I wouldn't say that. They get real release notes for the different software versions. At least the CM guy I talked to did. We don't get that. Everytime I see release notes on here its pretty much "random improvements under the covers" . Occasionally they list more info. But the CM guy rattled off about 10 - 20 changes from the info he had for 97f.


You'd think Directv would be more forthcoming, at least for announcing changes in non-public firmware, so those testing it know what to look for (i.e. "we changed something to do with HDMI audio" so people can make sure it works properly so they don't release a broken version)


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

slice1900 said:


> You'd think Directv would be more forthcoming, at least for announcing changes in non-public firmware, so those testing it know what to look for (i.e. "we changed something to do with HDMI audio" so people can make sure it works properly so they don't release a broken version)


That's exactly why we DO get broken releases in CE and public releases .


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

slice1900 said:


> You'd think Directv would be more forthcoming, at least for announcing changes in non-public firmware, so those testing it know what to look for (i.e. "we changed something to do with HDMI audio" so people can make sure it works properly so they don't release a broken version)


Tell someone you changed something and you get false results because they want to see a change. Make changes and have people report things that aren't working properly is a better indicator.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Shades228 said:


> Tell someone you changed something and you get false results because they want to see a change. Make changes and have people report things that aren't working properly is a better indicator.


Now that's a cogent thought. Never had concluded that, but it seems unassailable now that I have read it.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Laxguy said:


> Now that's a cogent thought. Never had concluded that, but it seems unassailable now that I have read it.


Maybe I could agree with that if the "customer candidate" releases spilled the guts on all the stuff that had changed, so if people said "hey this latest release broke X you said you changed" they can ignore it knowing that was changed 6 test versions ago.

I can see the argument that giving full details leads to false reports, but what Directv is doing now sure as hell isn't working for delivering solid releases.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

SledgeHammer said:


> That's exactly why we DO get broken releases in CE and public releases .


That's a topic for a different sub-forum.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Rich said:


> Surprised _*Harsh *_didn't know that.


I was trying to point out the value of using the full model designation. I chose a poor example.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Shades228 said:


> Tell someone you changed something and you get false results because they want to see a change. Make changes and have people report things that aren't working properly is a better indicator.


For changes to things the testers or public do not know is broken that is a good idea.

For things that are known to be broken and believed to be fixed it would be nice to see a listing. Although a listing is an admission that those things were not working before the update - and programmers may not want to admit the firmware had problems.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

SledgeHammer said:


> I wouldn't say that. They get real release notes for the different software versions. At least the CM guy I talked to did. We don't get that. Everytime I see release notes on here its pretty much "random improvements under the covers" . Occasionally they list more info. But the CM guy rattled off about 10 - 20 changes from the info he had for 97f.


From what I've experienced over the years, finding a CSR who can actually help you is a rarity. They don't get paid much, they don't get proper training, they have little, if any, oversight. And the supervisors of these people aren't much better. When you're comparing a Case Management agent to the CSRs you get if you make the mistake of calling D* without a plan is like comparing a fifth grader to a high school senior.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

harsh said:


> I was trying to point out the value of using the full model designation. I chose a poor example.


Thanx.

Rich


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## bjdotson (Feb 20, 2007)

Had a friend with DirecTV and her remote wasn't working properly. She showed me when I visited her house. It was terrible. Push a button and channel might or might not change, sometimes would take several pushes of a button before anything happened, extremely slow response when it did work. She had contacted CSRs several times and they sent out a new remote 3 times in an attempt to fix it, to no avail.

I fixed it in five minutes by taking a piece of scotch tape, coloring it with a black sharpie, and covering the little window that receives the remote signals. She was impressed with me and furious with DirecTV.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

What remote, what receiver? I presume you switched it to RF?


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

bjdotson said:


> Had a friend with DirecTV and her remote wasn't working properly. She showed me when I visited her house. It was terrible. Push a button and channel might or might not change, sometimes would take several pushes of a button before anything happened, extremely slow response when it did work. She had contacted CSRs several times and they sent out a new remote 3 times in an attempt to fix it, to no avail.
> 
> I fixed it in five minutes by taking a piece of scotch tape, coloring it with a black sharpie, and covering the little window that receives the remote signals. She was impressed with me and furious with DirecTV.


As Laxguy asked, what model remote and what model receiver? Did you perform a System Test? Did you reset the receiver? Was the remote in IR mode? If so did you check for signal interference?...... Better to identify cause than place blame.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

MysteryMan said:


> As Laxguy asked, what model remote and what model receiver? Did you perform a System Test? Did you reset the receiver? Was the remote in IR mode? If so did you check for signal interference?...... Better to identify cause than place blame.


Yeah, I don't understand that either.

Rich


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## bjdotson (Feb 20, 2007)

Don't remember specific model numbers but sure is was one of the HR2x (maybe an HR23) 

I knew what to try because I ran across the problem and solution on these forums (think it was a jimmy57 or something like that) This solution has been posted several times.

Apparently, to much interference from the tv can confuse the receiver. Tape helps because It is only letting directed signals through. I tried it and it worked

I considered changing to rf mode but decided against it for various reasons.

Anyway point was that these forums are a great resource


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

bjdotson said:


> I fixed it in five minutes by taking a piece of scotch tape, coloring it with a black sharpie, and covering the little window that receives the remote signals. She was impressed with me and furious with DirecTV.


Ya, you are right. This is actually a very common fix for remote issues on IR when there is a lot of IR interference.


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

peds48 said:


> Ya, you are right. This is actually a very common fix for remote issues on IR when there is a lot of IR interference.


Perhaps, but if I called up tech support and they told me to put scotch tape over the IR window, I would um...... heck, I dunno what I would do at such an unprofessional suggestion lol...


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Can someone please explain the physics of this trick? Is it simply reducing the reception of IR signals so that the remote gets through, but not weaker signals from other sources?


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

I would have tried RF myself. Unless she uses a universal remote but doesn't sound like it here.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Laxguy said:


> Can someone please explain the physics of this trick? Is it simply reducing the reception of IR signals so that the remote gets through, but not weaker signals from other sources?


Yes, that's exactly why it works. The remote is a much more powerful IR transmitter than other sources in your home (other than the sun, if the sun shines directly on the IR eye through a window that isn't low-e, good luck getting a remote to work)


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

Laxguy said:


> Can someone please explain the physics of this trick? Is it simply reducing the reception of IR signals so that the remote gets through, but not weaker signals from other sources?


The sensor heats up when it has a signal and cools off when it does not. This heating and cooling is what causes it to work.
When you have a flood of IR signals that are unwanted from many sources like the backlight of your TV screen, those curly que fluorescent light bulbs, etc. the sensor stays hot and does not get a chance to cool down so it can work. 
Putting the tape over it stops a tiny bit of the unwanted signals. To further help it you can use a charpie or marks a lot and color it black / dark blue and that will help it some more. All of my receivers have that on them.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Thanks, Jimmie. I use RF for the most part, and when in IR, haven't had the issue.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

SledgeHammer said:


> Perhaps, but if I called up tech support and they told me to put scotch tape over the IR window, I would um...... heck, I dunno what I would do at such an unprofessional suggestion lol...


And this is the exact same reason why you would probably never hear this coming form DIRECTV® support


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## bjdotson (Feb 20, 2007)

Didn't go to RF because it was not my receiver and not my house. The lady that lived there (a friend of my wife) isn't tech savvy at all. I made the remote easer to use and anybody can color a tape. 

I then spent the next 4 hours getting rid of malware, adware, and tons of application on her computer that she never uses but installed anyway.

Well, she had a nice visit with my wife


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

All the more reason to go RF to me. Harder to have issues with that. :lol:

I'll bet you are cleaning her computer again in six months too! :lol:


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

inkahauts said:


> All the more reason to go RF to me. Harder to have issues with that. :lol:
> 
> I'll bet you are cleaning her computer again in six months too! :lol:


Agree


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

jimmie57 said:


> The sensor heats up when it has a signal and cools off when it does not.


This is an incorrect characterization of how IR sensors work. They work by detecting IR band light and turning into a voltage very much like a solar cell given broad-spectrum light. The cell is made from pyroelectric materials that generate electrical energy (as opposed to heat energy) when exposed to IR light.

A system based on heating and cooling of the sensor (presumably resistance-based) would likely flummoxed by changes in ambient temperature and would be fairly slow to register changes.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

harsh said:


> This is an incorrect characterization of how IR sensors work. They work by detecting IR band light and turning into a voltage very much like a solar cell given broad-spectrum light. The cell is made from pyroelectric materials that generate electrical energy (as opposed to heat energy) when exposed to IR light.
> 
> A system based on heating and cooling of the sensor (presumably resistance-based) would likely flummoxed by changes in ambient temperature and would be fairly slow to register changes.


I will argue with you only a little bit since I am not an electrical person.
I read basically what I posted in a place on the web that explained how the IR sensor works. They could be wrong and that would make me wrong.

What does "pyro" stand for ? Isn't it heat ?


----------



## HaterSlayer (Mar 24, 2010)

peds48 said:


> And this is the exact same reason why you would probably never hear this coming form DIRECTV® support


Yep, I suggest that and 95% are gonna want a new receiver


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

jimmie57 said:


> I will argue with you only a little bit since I am not an electrical person.
> I read basically what I posted in a place on the web that explained how the IR sensor works. They could be wrong and that would make me wrong.
> 
> What does "pyro" stand for ? Isn't it heat ?


He was mostly right, but they don't use the pyroelectric effect they use the photoelectric effect (basically a photodiode) The only IR receivers that use pyroelectric effect are passive sensors used for things like motion detectors that turn on the light in your driveway.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

slice1900 said:


> He was mostly right, but they don't use the pyroelectric effect they use the photoelectric effect (basically a photodiode) The only IR receivers that use pyroelectric effect are passive sensors used for things like motion detectors that turn on the light in your driveway.


The one thing I do know for sure it the tape with the magic marker on it works.
I started this back when people were saying to put Blue Painters Tape over it. I did not have any so I went online to see how much it was. It was about $6 for a small roll of it. So , I thought of taping it over and then colored it dark. If it did not work it could be easily removed.
It worked. I did it to all 3 of my receivers and they have been flawless ever since.
I could not try the RF mode back then because none of my 3 remotes were RF.


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

Internet Smart Search is broken AGAIN.

You know... an internet connected HR24 doesn't return all the episodes, but pull the network cable and it works. Looks like it's only going up to 5/12 - 5/13. For example, The Big Bang Theory is in the guide for 5/14, but Smart Search won't pick it up if the box is connected to the internet.

Congratulations HR24, you're kicked off the internet cuz your makers are too incompetent to keep you working correctly. Not going to spend another 5 days on the phone trying to convince DirecTV this is broken again. I'll let you stay on my LAN (for now), but no internet access for you!

F- DirecTV (EDIT: F- as in the grade LOL, not the curse -- although, they deserve that too). Very poor.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

Now that you've had your rant have you tried trouble shooting the issue and identify the cause (Reset Receiver, Run a System Test, Perform a BIST Test) or are you satisfied with assigning blame?


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

MysteryMan said:


> Now that you've had your rant have you tried trouble shooting the issue and identify the cause (Reset Receiver, Run a System Test, Perform a BIST Test) or are you satisfied with assigning blame?


Did you even read my post? Or do you automatically assume every angry customer is an incompetent moron?

I've tried running a system test.
I've tried rebooting.
I've tried double rebooting.
I've tried CLEARMYBOX.
I've tried factory reset.
I've tried calling tech support.
I've tried calling case management.

What other suggestions do you have? You do know this is a well known issue, right? .


----------



## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

MysteryMan said:


> Now that you've had your rant have you tried trouble shooting the issue and identify the cause (Reset Receiver, Run a System Test, Perform a BIST Test) or are you satisfied with assigning blame?


Don't bother... he's done it all and started multiple topics about it.


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

sigma1914 said:


> Don't bother... he's done it all and started multiple topics about it.


Yeah, I get it dude.. you think Smart Search is stupid :sure: .


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Honestly I have to agree with him. You shouldn't get better results disconnected from the Internet. If anything, the better results should come from the Internet.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

SledgeHammer said:


> Did you even read my post? Or do you automatically assume every angry customer is an incompetent moron?
> 
> I've tried running a system test.
> I've tried rebooting.
> ...


Yes, I read your post. You had a hissy fit, assigned blame, graded DIRECTV, but did not state in "this thread" you tried what you posted in your second post.


sigma1914 said:


> Don't bother... he's done it all and started multiple topics about it.


You're right!


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

I don't disagree with him, but there's nothing anyone here can do and he hates calling (I don't blame him).


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

sigma1914 said:


> I don't disagree with him, but there's nothing anyone here can do and he hates calling (I don't blame him).


I don't hate calling. As you are familiar with my threads, I spent 3 days on the phone a few weeks ago, the last time this was broken and spoke with at least a half dozen people. You just can't reach anybody who knows anything.


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

MysteryMan said:


> Yes, I read your post. You had a hissy fit, assigned blame, graded DIRECTV, but did not state in "this thread" you tried what you posted in your second post.
> You're right!


But you automatically assumed I ran straight to the internet and had my hissy fit.

Who do you want me to blame? I *DID* clearly state in "this thread" that it works correctly if you disconnect from the internet and that its broken many times before. You just chose to ignore that part and focus on the hissy fit .


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

SledgeHammer said:


> But you automatically assumed I ran straight to the internet and had my hissy fit.
> 
> Who do you want me to blame? I *DID* clearly state in "this thread" that it works correctly if you disconnect from the internet and that its broken many times before. You just chose to ignore that part and focus on the hissy fit .


I have a HR44-200 and a HR24-500. Not experiencing your issue with either receiver. That's why I suggested trouble shooting. Reread your post. It's long on ranting, blaming, and grading DIRECTV but short on trouble shooting. Given that what else is there for the reader to focus on? :sure:


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

MysteryMan said:


> I have a HR44-200 and a HR24-500. Not experiencing your issue with either receiver. That's why I suggested trouble shooting. Reread your post. It's long on ranting, blaming, and grading DIRECTV but short on trouble shooting. Given that what else is there for the reader to focus on? :sure:


Your HR24 is connected to the internet? Directly to the router? And you aren't blocking any port or IP for it? Dash shows internet connected? If you do a smart search for The Big Bang Theory, do you get a CBS episode on the 14th? If you do a Pawn Stars search, do you get episodes on the 14th?

Weird that when I kick it off the internet that it magically works, huh? .

Did you know internet connected search is COMPLETELY different then non internet connected search?


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## dennisj00 (Sep 27, 2007)

SledgeHammer said:


> Your HR24 is connected to the internet? Directly to the router? And you aren't blocking any port or IP for it? Dash shows internet connected? If you do a smart search for The Big Bang Theory, do you get a CBS episode on the 14th? If you do a Pawn Stars search, do you get episodes on the 14th?
> 
> Weird that when I kick it off the internet that it magically works, huh? .
> 
> Did you know internet connected search is COMPLETELY different then non internet connected search?


I get both programs on the 14th. . . perhaps something is wrong with your Lan / Wan connection?


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

dennisj00 said:


> I get both programs on the 14th. . . perhaps something is wrong with your Lan / Wan connection?


Yep, I get both as well on my HR24 and HR44


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

Well, the only explanation I have then is that your boxes are hitting different servers then mine . Took some pics of mine. How do you explain this?


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Why are you concerned with a program out over ten days that's a re-run anyway?

[FWIW, it -the BBT show highlighted- is greyed out- "not authorized to receive"]


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

Laxguy said:


> Why are you concerned with a program out over ten days that's a re-run anyway?
> 
> [FWIW, it -the BBT show highlighted- is greyed out- "not authorized to receive"]


Where do you see it grayed out? Looks white to me. Why wouldn't I be authorized to record CBS? Not that you should care what I want to record LOL, but this isn't specific to TBBT, it happens on EVERY show.

Also, as I have mentioned countless times, when I disconnect from the internet, everything works just fine and the program shows up just fine in search.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

SledgeHammer said:


> Where do you see it grayed out? Looks white to me. Why wouldn't I be authorized to record CBS? Not that you should care what I want to record LOL, but this isn't specific to TBBT, it happens on EVERY show.


That was on my setup. I see I didn't make that apparent; My bad for trying to research something and report my results.

No, I don't give a hoot what you want to record, but why would you go on and on over a show that's out ten days, and one you'd have caught already if you were that keen on the series in the first place?


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Sledge, I forget what part of the country are you in? I think that can affect this issue as well. 

If you still have the exact contact info from who you last talked to that knew what was going on, Id contact them only and mention it is happening again. Im sure they would like to know... Maybe theyd even give you an email address for you to let them know whenever you see this issue pop up....


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

Laxguy said:


> That was on my setup. I see I didn't make that apparent; My bad for trying to research something and report my results.
> 
> No, I don't give a hoot what you want to record, but why would you go on and on over a show that's out ten days, and one you'd have caught already if you were that keen on the series in the first place?


Where did you say that you tested it on your system? All I see is a rude response telling me that I shouldn't be able to record anything :sure: .


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

inkahauts said:


> Sledge, I forget what part of the country are you in? I think that can affect this issue as well.
> 
> If you still have the exact contact info from who you last talked to that knew what was going on, Id contact them only and mention it is happening again. Im sure they would like to know... Maybe theyd even give you an email address for you to let them know whenever you see this issue pop up....


California.

I probably still have the guys name at work, but I took your advice from the last time instead and just emailed the folks in your link .

Don't really think anything'll come of it as it hasn't before.

That's why I just kicked the box off the internet.

Doesn't the Genie require an internet connection to work? Not sure how that's going to work once the "DVR that shall not be spoken about" is released .


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Genies can work with or without Internet.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

SledgeHammer said:


> Where did you say that you tested it on your system? All I see is a rude response telling me that I shouldn't be able to record anything :sure: .


No, I asked: 


> ....why would you go on and on over a show that's out ten days, and one you'd have caught already if you were that keen on the series in the first place?


Can you not answer that directly? If you can't it would seem that you're only trying to find fault.


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

Laxguy said:


> No, I asked:
> 
> Can you not answer that directly? If you can't it would seem that you're only trying to find fault.


This seems to be veering away from the issue at hand. Sledge stated in his first post that revived the topic that TBBT was an example, so I took it as a clear demonstration of how search is broken again for him, not that he cares about that particular episode.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

SledgeHammer said:


> I don't hate calling. As you are familiar with my threads, I spent 3 days on the phone a few weeks ago, the last time this was broken and spoke with at least a half dozen people. _*You just can't reach anybody who knows anything.*_


True that.

Rich


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

SledgeHammer said:


> Well, the only explanation I have then is that your boxes are hitting different servers then mine . Took some pics of mine. How do you explain this?


Are you wanting every episode for TBBT on every channel or what?

If I remember correctly, don't you setup recordings every week and refuse to use series links?


----------



## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

Laxguy said:


> No, I asked:
> 
> Can you not answer that directly? If you can't it would seem that you're only trying to find fault.


I already answered you directly. Just like your original response, you chose to ignore it. So I'll respond again much more clearly:

1) The DVR is supposed to work 14 days out, not 2 or 3 or 9 or 10.
2) I've also told you countless times this happens on EVERY show.
2) What business is it of yours what I want to record??? Outrageous attitude :sure: . The DVR is supposed to record. Can I use it for what its intended if you don't mind?

I'll tell you what, bring your car into my shop becaue a few of your cylinders are misfiring. I'll just ask you why you need all 6 cylinders working? What are you a street racer? Do you want to end up wrapped around a tree like Paul Walker? Come on! 4 cylinders is good enough to take your kids to soccer practice and buy groceries.

Or maybe I'm a Private Investigator and somebody will come into my agency because they suspect thier spouse is cheating and I'll just say Well, is she still sleeping with you a few times a week? Why do you care if she sleeps somewhere else too? A few times a week should be good enough.

Sheesh :sure: .


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

sigma1914 said:


> Are you wanting every episode for TBBT on every channel or what?
> 
> If I remember correctly, don't you setup recordings every week and refuse to use series links?


No, I want episodes that are in the guide to show up in smart search. That's kind of the point of searching.... to be able to find stuff. If I can't find stuff easily, I might as well re-up my subscription to TV guide.

And series links don't work either LOL...


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Series links never failed me, and I have a bunch.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Mr. Hammer:

I have no problem with anyone recording, watching and/or saving anything whatsoever.

What I have a problem with is using examples that border on cherry picking, especially as no consideration is given to errors in the guide data, which usually get straightened out in time for proper recording. 

Also, this is a very low level problem, as there are several ways around it. It seems you have chosen to make it a cause celebre and it's gotten tiresome.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

SledgeHammer said:


> Well, the only explanation I have then is that your boxes are hitting different servers then mine . Took some pics of mine. How do you explain this?


I have a thought:
I just looked at my guide for the 14th and that program is on channel 11 for me. It shows it first aired 2=26=2015.
Is it possible that the Online Guide is only showing First Runs ?
Does the online settings have anything different than the satellite search that you can set ?

Edit / Add:
I just looked at the 3 in the online search that you show in your pictures and only one of them is new. The other 2 are older.


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

TBBT on the 14th is a re-run, but the Pawn Star eps that day are new. They show up in the guide, but CONNECTED Smart Search doesn't see them. I don't have any filters turned on. I think its just the DirecTV cloud search server that my DVR is hitting is messed up and its impossible to reach anybody to fix it. I guess there really isn't any feature I'm missing out on by kicking the box off the internet. Especially with YouTube going away. Not that the implementation was very good.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

I tried the BBT search on my connected Genie and saw the same result as Sledgehammer. I'll see about checking something else, like the Pawn Stars example.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Jimmie...

I've seen this issue myself as well. (Not this week haven't checked yet. Maybe later today if I have time)


For some reason the servers don't return full data (which just so happens to be showing up as not showing programs out as far as it should, rather than simply missing random shows all over)

However when Internet is disconnected it searches its own internal database and finds everything it should. 

First run or repeats has nothing to do with it It's always presented itself as simply an issue with how far out it goes. 

It doesn't affect series links. 

Sledge is 100% right about bring up this issue as a problem. It is and its big IMHO. And I for one am glad he points it out so often...

On another note.... Sledge... I get your reasoning on some of the shows but please set a series link for BBT for first runs only and see how it works. I just never have issues at all with these things. Ever. Things like shows that don't have good guide data I get that issue. Also wanting to sift thru (although I'd do it opposite and delete after its recorded but either way makes the same amount of sense to me on that) shows you want some repeats but not all. 

But for first run series that are on channels that are giving out good guide data that you just want first run... Please give it another shot. There's zero reason for it to not work right ever. In fact from a Techincal standpoint you are more likely to have issues recording shows (as in they may not get recorded) the way you set them rather than using series links for your new main stream shows like BBT.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

dpeters11 said:


> I tried the BBT search on my connected Genie and saw the same result as Sledgehammer. I'll see about checking something else, like the Pawn Stars example.


What area of the country are you in?


----------



## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

inkahauts said:


> Jimmie...
> 
> I've seen this issue myself as well. (Not this week haven't checked yet. Maybe later today if I have time)
> 
> ...


My receiver is not connected to the net.

I do have an Ipad and the DTV app.
I just did a search on it and it worked just fine. It went all the way to the 15th. It also allows you to sort by On Demand and On TV.

Touch one of the episodes and a window pops up for you to record it if you want to.
I have tried the app for setting a recording in the past and that works as it should.

Something else I noticed is that it lists the Season and Episode numbers of each show / episode.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

I do not believe that the iPad app uses the same database as the boxes when they do smart searches. They might but I'd imagine they are separate. 

And one reason I've been asking where people are located is that I believe they have different servers for different areas as well. This helps a lot of things especially speed.


----------



## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

inkahauts said:


> I do not believe that the iPad app uses the same database as the boxes when they do smart searches. They might but I'd imagine they are separate.
> 
> And one reason I've been asking where people are located is that I believe they have different servers for different areas as well. This helps a lot of things especially speed.


I would think they are the same. It makes no sense to maintain several data bases for the same thing.
All that would / should be different is how it puts it on the screen because you are using a pad instead of a pc.


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

Well, DPeters is in Cincinnati which is no where near California. Obviously they have a bunch of servers. One server isn't going to handle 100M+ boxes. Obviously they aren't all hitting the server at the same time, but still... as a comparison, at my job, we have a service that gets @ peak 1000 req / min and we have 8 servers and still get lots of timeouts. 

The engineer in me would suspect that the app & boxes hit different services as they have different functionality and different tolerances.


----------



## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

SledgeHammer said:


> Well, DPeters is in Cincinnati which is no where near California. Obviously they have a bunch of servers. One server isn't going to handle 100M+ boxes. Obviously they aren't all hitting the server at the same time, but still... as a comparison, at my job, we have a service that gets @ peak 1000 req / min and we have 8 servers and still get lots of timeouts.
> 
> The engineer in me would suspect that the app & boxes hit different services as they have different functionality and different tolerances.


Have you tried the App on a pad of some brand ? I never had until yesterday. I will use it from now on when I want to search for a program.

I hear you about the different servers but that still should be just one data base to maintain. It does not make sense to maintain several data bases. Every time there is a program change you would have to update several instead of the one.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

sigma1914 said:


> Series links never failed me, and I have a bunch.


I've never counted my SLs, but each of my HRs is pretty close to the 50 mark. That would give me...around a thousand SLs if I did the math in my head correctly. And, as you said, no problems with any of them. Hmm, that was interesting.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Laxguy said:


> Mr. Hammer:
> 
> I have no problem with anyone recording, watching and/or saving anything whatsoever.
> 
> ...


Kinda interesting watching the two of you argue, tho. :rolling:

Rich


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

I think you may be in the minority on that one!  I'll jump in only if there's something new; otherwise I am done.


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

inkahauts said:


> Sledge is 100% right about bring up this issue as a problem. It is and its big IMHO. And I for one am glad he points it out so often...


Agreed. DIRECTV wants its customers to have the best experience, but when a customer finds different results based on how they search (internet connected or not, web site or app or receiver) that's less than the best experience, and problems won't get fixed if they're not reported.


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## dennisj00 (Sep 27, 2007)

One gotcha I've noticed on scheduling Series Links on the iPad app . . . it will include older reruns on other channels. The standard smart search on a box doesn't do that. (and generally I don't want the older programs.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

dennisj00 said:


> One gotcha I've noticed on scheduling Series Links on the iPad app . . . it will include older reruns on other channels. The standard smart search on a box doesn't do that. (and generally I don't want the older programs.


There are settings to change what the app is set for. So you should be able to make it first run only on that channel. Did they change that recently?


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

Drew2k said:


> Agreed. DIRECTV wants its customers to have the best experience, but when a customer finds different results based on how they search (internet connected or not, web site or app or receiver) that's less than the best experience, and problems won't get fixed if they're not reported.


I never complained about having to report the issue. I'm a software guy myself, so I know you can accidently break stuff. What annoys me is that there is no way to report this issue. You can only talk to CSRs who don't know anything and don't really understand the issue, so they first try to talk you into a truck roll. After you convince them, they'll escalate to engineering, but they'll generally leave out a ton of info, so the engineer will just throw his hands up in dispair and close the bug as not reproducible. I've gotten bug reports like "user can not order report". What user? What report? What browser? What this? What that? All that is important in fixing the bug.

There's no way to talk to anybody with any technical knowledge
There's no way to get a call back from engineering
There's no way to even so much as send them screenshots

Allowing people to send in screenshots would probably reduce the "can't repro" by like 90% because you'll know what the person is talking about.


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## dennisj00 (Sep 27, 2007)

inkahauts said:


> There are settings to change what the app is set for. So you should be able to make it first run only on that channel. Did they change that recently?


I don't find any default recording settings in the app related to SLs . . . and I was surprised that it started changing the item in the guide to record (if you pick a first run) to a completely different channel / episode (usually re-re-run) when you change from episode to SL in the recording box.

I think it's a recent bug that has crept in and I reported it in one of the ipad threads.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

jimmie57 said:


> My receiver is not connected to the net.
> 
> I do have an Ipad and the DTV app.
> I just did a search on it and it worked just fine. It went all the way to the 15th. It also allows you to sort by On Demand and On TV.
> ...


That does not do you any good if the listing is not on the receiver, it will fail the request.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Sorry about being real late to this thread;

Somebody quickly bring me up to date;

Have two HR24s here, -100 and -500 varieties, both internet connected.

Latest hit on TBBT is 5/17 at 4:30 PM (PST) on TBSHD (ch. 247)

And for Pawn Stars latest hit is also this same date and time on the HISTHD (ch. 269).

Is this normal, or are my HR24s experiencing the shortened Smart Search results problem as well?


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

HoTat2 said:


> Sorry about being real late to this thread;
> 
> Somebody quickly bring me up to date;
> 
> ...


Check here:

http://www.dbstalk.com/topic/217268-smart-search-complaint-thread/page-8#entry3358083

I posted some screen shots. 5/17 is correct for today though. I don't really feel like putting my box back on the internet for testing, but its possible they fixed it "again".

If you check those screen shots, you'll see TBBT set to record on 5/14 CBS @ 8PM via the guide. Clearly in the guide and clearly set to record. The 2nd screenshot is the result from the smart search. More specifically, "other showings". It's not showing those 2 eps from the screenshot. It only went up to 5/7 which is OK since the "other showings" will filter on the channel (which I actually like, but others have complained about). When I say its OK, I mean, it shouldn't show me any eps on 5/8, etc. because those aren't on CBS, but it SHOULD show me the 2 from 5/14 because those are.


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

Just for the sake of argument I went and tested it... they "fixed it" again it seems.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

SledgeHammer said:


> Just for the sake of argument I went and tested it... they "fixed it" again it seems.


Given the fact that it's intermittent I'm guessing that it's either a time issue or it's a data load issue. This is just going to be an automated process to keep everything updated.It could be that incomplete information is not provided in the search so it won't show up until the data is complete. It could be an error with the script but given that it always seems to correct itself within about the same time frame each time it's clear that the "fix" is automated as well.


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

Shades228 said:


> Given the fact that it's intermittent I'm guessing that it's either a time issue or it's a data load issue. This is just going to be an automated process to keep everything updated.It could be that incomplete information is not provided in the search so it won't show up until the data is complete. It could be an error with the script but given that it always seems to correct itself within about the same time frame each time it's clear that the "fix" is automated as well.


It does not always correct itself in the same time frame. In this particular case, there was around 6 days left before it was "fixed". The last time, it went down to about 3 days left.

When I talked to the CM guy last time, he mentioned that his engineer friend was watching this thread, so its possible he alerted the "sweep it under the rug" guy to do that again. But its obvious it wasn't fixed.

LOL... time for a fun experiment. Next time this breaks (and I'm sure it will -- and I'm sure it will again soon), I'm keeping it to myself just to see what happens when it runs out of days and the cloud search server runs out of data.


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## Christopher Gould (Jan 14, 2007)

I don't know if this is the same issue but I have items in my to do list that I can find if I search the same program. I'd also like them to fix the s# e# thing. Some shows have it and some dont.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Christopher Gould said:


> I don't know if this is the same issue but I have items in my to do list that I can find if I search the same program. I'd also like them to fix the s# e# thing. Some shows have it and some dont.


That you can or can't find.?

And the lack of season info is that for different episodes for the same series or different series. Not all series will have that info. That's up to the series and the channel that airs it.


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## Christopher Gould (Jan 14, 2007)

Can't find. Example if I search unsealed alien files it goes to the 18th only but if I look at my to do list it has some set to record on the 23th 24th etc.


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## Christopher Gould (Jan 14, 2007)

And on the s# e# is occurring on the same series and it's hit and miss. One episode has it the next doesn't


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## Christopher Gould (Jan 14, 2007)

Guide data and search data way off. Hangar 1 the ufo files shows a marathon starting 6am Sunday thru Monday 2:05am and not one of those is in the guide.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Christopher Gould said:


> Guide data and search data way off. Hangar 1 the ufo files shows a marathon starting 6am Sunday thru Monday 2:05am and not one of those is in the guide.


They are not showing in the guide or the search?


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## Christopher Gould (Jan 14, 2007)

They where in the s each for other shows but not in the guide. I noticed because I had to old episodes set to record they disappeared I looked in other showings they where there and then looked in guide they weren't there. Went back to other showings tried to click on them to record wouldn't let me.


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## Christopher Gould (Jan 14, 2007)

Other showings seach and guide.


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## Christopher Gould (Jan 14, 2007)

So no one has a clue as to why the guide shows one thing and the search data shows another


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

My guess is the channel has changed what it's going to show and ther for the guide data. Smart search uses the Internet guide so that is probably updated immediately and shows what is going to be on those days... However the DVRs don't get constant updates the same way. I think they get initial info that is several days out, then it also gets the latest updates that are for sometime in the next three hours up to and including any changes for the time it is... That middle ground time frames may not have a push of new guide data till its ,inch closer to airing.

That's my guess anyway.


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## woj027 (Sep 3, 2007)

i'm having trouble finding on demand shows when I use smart search. When I do a search it only gives me results for up coming episodes (sorted by season) I like the old way it would show results. This has happened for several searches. I know there are on demand shows because I go to the on demand channel and wade through the shows to find what I want. any idea why on demand is not showing up in smart search?

i'm not trying to set up a series record, I'm just trying to find a show to watch (kids shows for my son specifically)


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

You need to select the show from the list in the smart search results. Then it will drill down to that actual show and the channels it's on including on demand.


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## woj027 (Sep 3, 2007)

That's what I think I'm trying to do. I'm at work now, but when i do a smart search it doesn't bring up any show that are on Demand. I drill down and only find shows that will be on at some future date/time.

when i go to the on demand channels, I find shows that would meet my smart search criteria.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Are you connected to the Internet?


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## woj027 (Sep 3, 2007)

the DVR? yes, because I watch those on demand shows I find.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

you might try doing a keyword search for CLEARMYBOX. This will reboot the box but also clear oput all guide data and such and reload everything, so do it when you are going to bed, it takes a day or so to fully repopulate. But could be you are missing stuff.


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## jeret (Apr 22, 2007)

Still confused on how smart search is supposed to work

Example -- I go to smart search and type in Michael J Fox. After it searches, it comes up with some episodes of Boston Legal in which Fox may or may not be on. I know there are other movies that are on (Back To The Future, Teen Wolf) and so on that Fox is in. If I can find and episode of Boston Legal which Fox appears in by going to cast and crew and click on his name, then all the other shows and movies show up. Why don't all the shows and movies come up with the first search of Fox. If no Boston Legal shows comes up, the search shows "there are no matching programs at this time", when there are actually programs on that Fox is in for the next two weeks. Is there a setting somewhere I can set that will show all programs when I do a search on a person? I have the internet connected to the DVR and have reset the DVR on occasion to get ScoreGuide to work. There was a time when a seach would bring up everything -- wasn't there?


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