# DirecTV doesn't want old equipment?



## Temoryian (Dec 7, 2011)

Hi folks,

I switched DirecTV back into my name at our house and DirecTV came and installed all new gear for us. The old roomy who moved out requested boxes to return his old equipment and only received 1 box. When he called to ask for more boxes they told him only to return the HR34. He had 3 other H24's or H25's (I think they were 24's) and a wireless bridge. Is this correct?

Thanks!!


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

Generally DirecTV wants equipment back. However, there are exceptions, some models are designated as non-returnable. Don't toss the old gear for a month or two, they could end up billing a non-return fee, and being able to return them at that time will get that dropped.


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## Temoryian (Dec 7, 2011)

I went and looked and the receivers are H21-200's. He just let them sit in my garage. So yeah if anyone is looking for an H21 or a wireless bridge I guess I have one for you


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Parts only on the H21. Those are non recoverable but can't be activated on another account. And there aren't that many parts that can be used, since there isn't a hard drive to go bad.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Temoryian said:


> I went and looked and the receivers are H21-200's.


Can't stress enough the importance of offering accurate details.


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## SteveHas (Feb 7, 2007)

When they upgraded my Genie from an HR34 (?) to an HR44, they never asked for the HR34 back, nor charged me and that was at least 6 months ago now.


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## iceturkee (Apr 1, 2007)

SteveHas said:


> When they upgraded my Genie from an HR34 (?) to an HR44, they never asked for the HR34 back, nor charged me and that was at least 6 months ago now.


how did you maanage to upgrade the 34 to a 44?


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

I suspect his "HR34" was really an HR21 or something like that.

Were you able to record five programs at once your old "Genie"?


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## rvernier (Sep 27, 2009)

When I upgraded to my Genie HR44 in May they had me keep the HR24 and HR23. Only had to return the access cards.


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## canesice (Jul 11, 2009)

only cards sent back for me also. Had two circa 2009 DVRS.. They didnt even want my HR24 which was only 2 years old. Kept it for future potential use.
They also didnt want the 2 DECAs converters.


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## longrider (Apr 21, 2007)

I am surprised at the reports of DirecTV not wanting HR24s back. I can definitely see them obsoleting everything prior to the HR24 but not the 24 unless the plan is to offer nothing but the Genie even to one TV/DVR households


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Or maybe this has to do with the "Lego" plan where they will start offering the ability to turn receivers into DVRs via an external hard drive. If they do that, the whole HR2x line may become obsolete. Though you'd think they'd have that plan in action before they'd start considering HR24s non recoverable.

Given how many cases have been reported where Directv says they don't want something back and then the customer gets billed for not returning it, it could be a mistake. Anyone who is told not to return a HR24 better hold onto it for 3-4 months and make sure they aren't getting charged for it!

canesice: Can you look on your HR24 at the manufacturing date and let us know what it is? Just because it is two years old to you doesn't mean it wasn't refurbished when you got it and may be several years older. I wonder if maybe they're retiring receivers after they're five years old, and the oldest HR24s would be at or near five years old.


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## canesice (Jul 11, 2009)

slice1900 said:


> canesice: Can you look on your HR24 at the manufacturing date and let us know what it is? Just because it is two years old to you doesn't mean it wasn't refurbished when you got it and may be several years older. I wonder if maybe they're retiring receivers after they're five years old, and the oldest HR24s would be at or near five years old.


It is an HR24-100 with March, 2012 manufacture date. I talked to two different operators, and both said they just wanted the cards..


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

canesice said:


> It is an HR24-100 with March, 2012 manufacture date. I talked to two different operators, and both said they just wanted the cards..


Strange. I'd definitely hold onto it for 3-4 months, and watch your bill in case there is a big charge for not returning the receiver. If that happens, just call them and tell them you were told they didn't want it back, and that if they do they need to send you a return kit. Others seem to have had issues with Directv telling people they didn't want something back and then changing their mind later!


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## west99999 (May 12, 2007)

HR24-100 are no longer recovered unless a tech is out he/she should take all IRD's regardless of age.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

longrider said:


> I am surprised at the reports of DirecTV not wanting HR24s back. I can definitely see them obsoleting everything prior to the HR24 but not the 24 unless the plan is to offer nothing but the Genie even to one TV/DVR households


The fact that they're charging new customers $199 for an HR2x and giving away a Genie pretty well answers that question.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

west99999 said:


> HR24-100 are no longer recovered unless a tech is out he/she should take all IRD's regardless of age.


Interesting. I wonder if that line just had some inherent issue bad enough or cost so much to fix that it defeated the accounting savings by refurbishing them.


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## acostapimps (Nov 6, 2011)

I did send a H24 back 3 months ago with access card, and a HR24 back from a replacement for another HR24 5 months ago.
Not sure if defective receivers have to be returned, and unactive receivers unreturnable for some models.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

inkahauts said:


> Interesting. I wonder if that line just had some inherent issue bad enough or cost so much to fix that it defeated the accounting savings by refurbishing them.


Maybe so, but one guy had a working HR24 barely two years old they didn't want back. I could see not wanting to fix them, but they'd have to have an awfully high failure rate for Directv to not even want them back to give to another customer after dusting them off and reformatting the hard drive.

Maybe the HR24-100 is the return of the H20-600


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## NurseDiesel (Dec 15, 2011)

Be careful on this. I just upgraded from HR24 to HR44. I told them I'd do the upgrade myself and they just sent me the new HR44 but it didn't come with a return kit. I called DirecTV on 3 different occasions and was told by all 3 reps that they didn't need my HR24 back and just return the access card in the envelope included with my HR44, which I did.

I was all ready to recycle the HR24 via their website, and after entering all the numbers, it came up with a message saying it had to be returned. I called again and requested a supervisor who told me that was the case, and they'd send me out a return kit. 

Bear in mind the 21 day clock was ticking to return it without a $135 fee. It took nearly a week to get the return kit (which is just an empty box). I followed up a few days after taking it to the post office to make sure they got it as my confidence in their operations was diminishing. They said they got it, but now I'm watching my bill carefully. The whole process seemed cumbersome.


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## BoilerUp (Jul 29, 2014)

I called to get a replacement for an HR24 yesterday because the hard drive failed. They told me that when I activated the replacement, that I would only need to return the card from the failed unit and I could dispose of the unit itself. I asked the question twice. We'll see what actually happens when the replacement shows up and I'll keep it for a few months just to be sure. 

Is it possible that I could just replace the hard drive or add an external and then be able to get a new card for the unit as owned at some point? Also, are the cards specific to a unit in their system or is it possible to use a card from another unit (I have a couple H25's) and put it in the DVR and use that in one of the H25's place? I'm not looking to rip off D*, but I believe there wouldn't be any change in my bill if I were using the same number of boxes anyway, since I already pay the DVR charge, etc. I'm more than willing to do the right thing, just want to know what options are available and I wouldn't do any of them until I was pretty sure they didn't want the box back down the road.


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## FloorHead (May 22, 2007)

BoilerUp said:


> Also, are the cards specific to a unit in their system or is it possible to use a card from another unit (I have a couple H25's) and put it in the DVR and use that in one of the H25's place?


The cards are paired to the receivers and cannot be transferred between receivers.


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## BoilerUp (Jul 29, 2014)

FloorHead said:


> The cards are paired to the receivers and cannot be transferred between receivers.


Thanks, that's what I thought, but wasn't sure.

So, if they truly don't want the receiver back and if I'm able to repair it with either a new internal drive or an external drive (may try that while waiting on replacement since I think I have an esata capable external drive laying around I'm not using), is there a process to get a card for it and activate it down the road and does it then become an owned receiver?


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

BoilerUp said:


> Thanks, that's what I thought, but wasn't sure.
> 
> So, if they truly don't want the receiver back and if I'm able to repair it with either a new internal drive or an external drive (may try that while waiting on replacement since I think I have an esata capable external drive laying around I'm not using), is there a process to get a card for it and activate it down the road and does it then become an owned receiver?


Nope, a non-recovered unit will always be a lease


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

FloorHead said:


> The cards are paired to the receivers and cannot be transferred between receivers.


This is just policy, there isn't any actual technical limitation would prevent if it Directv wished to allow it.


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

west99999 said:


> HR24-100 are no longer recovered unless a tech is out he/she should take all IRD's regardless of age.


Well, we just canceled DirecTV on July 9 and they sent recovery kits for our HR24-100, our HR34 and both our H25-500s. They only wanted the access cards from our HR21-100 and 700, and from our owned HR24-500.


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## west99999 (May 12, 2007)

Diana C said:


> Well, we just canceled DirecTV on July 9 and they sent recovery kits for our HR24-100, our HR34 and both our H25-500s. They only wanted the access cards from our HR21-100 and 700, and from our owned HR24-500.


Sorry to hear you leaving. HR24-100 went to non recover on 8-1.


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## Blackloz (Aug 23, 2011)

FloorHead said:


> The cards are paired to the receivers and cannot be transferred between receivers.


Since this is the case I wonder why they even want the card back?


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Blackloz said:


> Since this is the case I wonder why they even want the card back?


Well, those can be reused.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

peds48 said:


> Well, those can be reused.


Do they reuse returned cards? That type of smart card would cost well under a buck a piece in bulk, it hardly seems worth it.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

They don't reuse cards. It's all about people ordering PPV and disconnecting their receivers from letting directv know about it imho and they want to charge people for that, which they should.

It's easier to keep,cards tied permanently to one account only.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

inkahauts said:


> They don't reuse cards. It's all about people ordering PPV and disconnecting their receivers from letting directv know about it imho and they want to charge people for that, which they should.
> 
> It's easier to keep,cards tied permanently to one account only.


How much PPV can you charge on the card if you don't have internet or phone on the receiver? Is it more than what they charge you for not returning the card?


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

I've heard of hundreds. Which I thought was no possible but evidently it is. Now that was a while ago, don't know about now.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

inkahauts said:


> They don't reuse cards.


Yes, they do


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

slice1900 said:


> How much PPV can you charge on the card if you don't have internet or phone on the receiver? Is it more than what they charge you for not returning the card?


$10.00 before the card has to call in to "discharge"


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

inkahauts said:


> I've heard of hundreds.


No, that is not correct.


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## CraigerM (Apr 15, 2014)

Would they want SD equipment back?


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## 456521 (Jul 6, 2007)

I've harped on this same subject before, but if DirecTV makes us "pay" for a leased receiver then they are getting it back even if they don't want it. They are placing the cost of disposal on to the consumer for a receiver they don't even own. DirecTV's policy of not wanting the older receivers back is only to increase profits and nothing more.

I've got too much old electronics junk as is. I don't want more. :grin:


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

peds48 said:


> No, that is not correct.


It was possible to have happen.

I think what happened was if I remember right the person had it all connected properly for a long time. Then just before ending service they undid the phone connection and ordered an expensive fight and a couple movies in a day or two and then disconnected. This is back when receivers where owned. Because they then sold the reciever to someone and the new person activated it. At their next bill they had a couple hundred in charges on the bill from the previous persons charges.

I think this is part of the reason they always want access cards back.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

inkahauts said:


> It was possible to have happen.
> 
> I think what happened was if I remember right the person had it all connected properly for a long time. Then just before ending service they undid the phone connection and ordered an expensive fight and a couple movies in a day or two and then disconnected. This is back when receivers where owned. Because they then sold the reciever to someone and the new person activated it. At their next bill they had a couple hundred in charges on the bill from the previous persons charges.
> 
> I think this is part of the reason they always want access cards back.


There is a limit on how much you can order on PPV before you are required to pay and order more (even before you bill is due), and this limit (which I wont tell, so please don't ask) is NOT in the couple of hundreds of dollars. Now if you are referring perhaps 10 years ago, then that might be possible, but as of current, your theory is not possible.


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

They want access cards back because they are the security system. It wasn't that many years ago that DirecTV had a huge piracy problem. It took years to fight back the pirates with ECMs and card upgrades. Every card left out in the field is a potential weak spot in the defenses.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

peds48 said:


> There is a limit on how much you can order on PPV before you are required to pay and order more (even before you bill is due), and this limit (which I wont tell, so please don't ask) is NOT in the couple of hundreds of dollars. Now if you are referring perhaps 10 years ago, then that might be possible, but as of current, your theory is not possible.


Like i said, this is before the lease model, so sounds like things have changed.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Diana C said:


> They want access cards back because they are the security system. It wasn't that many years ago that DirecTV had a huge piracy problem. It took years to fight back the pirates with ECMs and card upgrades. Every card left out in the field is a potential weak spot in the defenses.


Oh yeah, that too.... :lol:


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

inkahauts said:


> Like i said, this is before the lease model, so sounds like things have changed.


8 years is a pong time. Things do change


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

CraigerM said:


> Would they want SD equipment back?


Very unlikely, since they are no longer installing SD equipment for new customers who signed up after 7/24, and will eventually phase out those receivers entirely in a few years.


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## CraigerM (Apr 15, 2014)

If an SD Receiver goes bad will they replace it with another one or an HD Receiver? Since they are phasing out the SD ones?


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

CraigerM said:


> If an SD Receiver goes bad will they replace it with another one or an HD Receiver?


Yes.

:hurah:

Good question, but it could vary by location a bit, and certainly it makes sense to put in HD ones for the transition.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

CraigerM said:


> If an SD Receiver goes bad will they replace it with another one or an HD Receiver? Since they are phasing out the SD ones?


It gets replaced with an SD receiver. SD equipment is not being phased out for currrent subscribers. Existing subs can still order SD equipment


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

CraigerM said:


> Since they are phasing out the SD ones?


In that an HD receiver can't replace an SD receiver in some situations (primarily in situations where the TV itself is SD), the upgrade process to HD would have to be more formal and may require upgrading more than just the receiver. If they send out an H25 to replace a D10, there will be considerable difficulty getting it to work.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

harsh said:


> In that an HD receiver can't replace an SD receiver in some situations (primarily in situations where the TV itself is SD), the upgrade process to HD would have to be more formal and may require upgrading more than just the receiver. If they send out an H25 to replace a D10, there will be considerable difficulty getting it to work.


Replacement of defective receivers are still apple for apples. Sd equipment is still here and available for existing subs


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

This might be relative to not taking back old receivers.

Back when I ran a machine shop one of my people sent a half inch electric drill to the local electric motor shop for repair and just told them to fix it.
They did and then sent us a bill. I was furious. It was $117 for the repair and it only had a bad switch. Most of the cost was for the labor.
A new drill exactly like it was $59.

These receivers might be like that. A big cost for labor to find out what is wrong with them , repair labor and parts and then to test them after repairing them, shipping charges, etc. etc. etc. Very probably costs them more than to just can it and buy another new one from the manufacturer.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

jimmie57 said:


> This might be relative to not taking back old receivers.
> 
> Back when I ran a machine shop one of my people sent a half inch electric drill to the local electric motor shop for repair and just told them to fix it.
> They did and then sent us a bill. I was furious. It was $117 for the repair and it only had a bad switch. Most of the cost was for the labor.
> ...


I know that this is the reality of things, but it irritates me a bit when things are cheaper to replace than to fix, at least for common reasons. Sometimes it seems like it's cheaper to get a new printer than to replace all the ink.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

dpeters11 said:


> I know that this is the reality of things, but it irritates me a bit when things are cheaper to replace than to fix, at least for common reasons. Sometimes it seems like it's cheaper to get a new printer than to replace all the ink.


I have done that more than once in the past several years. My last all in one wireless HP was on sale for $49.99 and the ink for the old printer I had was $56.
It is because all of these things are made in China and India, South Korea, etc. When they are repaired it is here.


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## t_h (Mar 7, 2008)

I just got a new HR-44 to replace an HR-24. When I did that the rep said to return the HR-24 in the box the 44 came in. When I called to activate the 44 and deactivate the 24, I mentioned the box was a little small and they said they'd send a recovery kit. When I didn't get that, I sent an email and was told they didn't want it back. So far nobody mentioned the access card. Be nice if they don't want it. I have another HR24 and could replace it with the spare if it went bad and I might want to add it back on as a 3rd receiver.

And yeah, they want the access cards back mostly for security reasons. I can still remember when the 'football' access cards sold for $300-400 on ebay.

I wasn't really that surprised that they didn't want the HR20 back when I deactivated it last year. But the 24 surprised me. I guess they're getting old. It was lightning fast when they first came out, but the software weighs on it now. I was very surprised at how much faster the HR44 was in remote and menu response.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

jimmie57 said:


> It is because all of these things are made in China and India, South Korea, etc. *When they are repaired it is here.*


Let's not go this route. It has nothing to where it is repaired.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

peds48 said:


> Let's not go this route. It has nothing to where it is repaired.


Don't you tell me what to write ! It absolutely has to do with where it is repaired !

It certainly has to do with the fact that the workers in the US probably make 10 times or more than the workers that built the original units and it makes the price of repairing these units high.

I have asked you more than once to refrain from replying / quoting my posts and I would appreciate it if you would remember that.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

harsh said:


> In that an HD receiver can't replace an SD receiver in some situations (primarily in situations where the TV itself is SD), the upgrade process to HD would have to be more formal and may require upgrading more than just the receiver. If they send out an H25 to replace a D10, there will be considerable difficulty getting it to work.


Name one case where an HD receiver can't replace an SD receiver. They can receive SD channels, output SD. I guess the few people with VERY old TVs that only have an antenna input and use the built-in modulator, but this is a very very tiny number. Even 25 year old TVs have RCA or S-video inputs.


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

slice1900 said:


> Name one case where an HD receiver can't replace an SD receiver. They can receive SD channels, output SD. I guess the few people with VERY old TVs that only have an antenna input and use the built-in modulator, but this is a very very tiny number. Even 25 year old TVs have RCA or S-video inputs.


That is true of larger TVs, but a lot of small sets (under 17") never had AV inputs. I would imagine that a lot of these small TVs are still in use in kitchens and exercise rooms. If a customer still has SD service only, the odds of him/her having one or more RF only TVs is probably pretty good.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

slice1900 said:


> Name one case where an HD receiver can't replace an SD receiver. They can receive SD channels, output SD. I guess the few people with VERY old TVs that only have an antenna input and use the built-in modulator, but this is a very very tiny number. Even 25 year old TVs have RCA or S-video inputs.


In addition to the case that you mentioned, there are more than a few distribution systems that depend on the RF modulator being in place.

There is also the issue of the H25 not having composite or component outputs for TVs that feature those options. Replacement isn't just a matter of being something you can eventually adapt with enough extra parts.

If the antenna and switchgear are old legacy or new legacy, an H25 won't work at all.

There are quite a few configurations that wouldn't work that may or may not be accurately documented in DIRECTV's database of who has what. You get a lot of that when you allow self-installing.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Diana C said:


> That is true of larger TVs, but a lot of small sets (under 17") never had AV inputs.


Some of the combo TVs, regardless of size, had no inputs other than an F connector for the tuner.


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## unixguru (Jul 9, 2007)

jimmie57 said:


> I have done that more than once in the past several years. My last all in one wireless HP was on sale for $49.99 and the ink for the old printer I had was $56.
> It is because all of these things are made in China and India, South Korea, etc. When they are repaired it is here.


Its more complicated.

The ink cartridge in a new printer has far less ink than a replacement cartridge. Its just a "starter" amount. Slightly better than not including a cartridge with a new printer. Ink is what is expensive - or should I say profitable.

I have noticed that replacement ink prices for a given model rise after a few years. They are encouraging consumers to phase-out older equipment.



jimmie57 said:


> It certainly has to do with the fact that the workers in the US probably make 10 times or more than the workers that built the original units and it makes the price of repairing these units high.


Also keep in mind that repairing things requires greater skill (diagnostic) and physically takes more time. For example, sometimes getting to a bad part requires disassembling the whole thing, replacing the part, and then reassembling.

Building new things on an assembly line is very different. Workers don't have a clue about how things work. They are paid to assemble the part using the procedure they were taught. Robots will take over those jobs well before they take over repairs.

Electronics are approaching disposable status. Cheaper to toss into a grinder and melt down for raw materials. New device will be better and stamped out by robots.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

unixguru said:


> Also keep in mind that repairing things requires greater skill (diagnostic) and physically takes more time. For example, sometimes getting to a bad part requires disassembling the whole thing, replacing the part, and then reassembling.
> 
> Building new things on an assembly line is very different. Workers don't have a clue about how things work. They are paid to assemble the part using the procedure they were taught. Robots will take over those jobs well before they take over repairs.
> 
> Electronics are approaching disposable status. Cheaper to toss into a grinder and melt down for raw materials. New device will be better and stamped out by robots.


exactly my point. It has nothing to do with wages. Also electronics are mass produced. Fixing thing is a one at a time process.


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## unixguru (Jul 9, 2007)

peds48 said:


> exactly my point. It has nothing to do with wages. Also electronics are mass produced. Fixing thing is a one at a time process.


I was only indicating that there are additional factors involved. Wages do account for part of it.


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## CraigerM (Apr 15, 2014)

So is DTV just going to eat the cost of their boxes? Or do they figure it evens out not refurbishing them? Could be the first step of DTV moving to apps and the cloud?


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

jimmie57 said:


> Don't you tell me what to write ! It absolutely has to do with where it is repaired !
> 
> It certainly has to do with the fact that the workers in the US probably make 10 times or more than the workers that built the original units and it makes the price of repairing these units high.
> 
> I have asked you more than once to refrain from replying / quoting my posts and I would appreciate it if you would remember that.


No need to get all worked up. This is a place to discuss various topics and I am just pointing out some information.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

unixguru said:


> I was only indicating that there are additional factors involved. Wages do account for part of it.


Lowering wages will have minimal impact on the outrageous prices we pay for repairs of electronic devices.


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## t_h (Mar 7, 2008)

CraigerM said:


> So is DTV just going to eat the cost of their boxes? Or do they figure it evens out not refurbishing them? Could be the first step of DTV moving to apps and the cloud?


Well when you look at it from a cost perspective, the hr's and genies have a manufacturing cost of around $150, perhaps $175 when some material costs are selling for a higher price like the disk drive 'shortage' we had a while back. They're getting lease, hd, dvr and whole home fees on a monthly basis. Those wipe out their cost for the hardware in about a year while they profit on the package fees. Since you're locked in for two years on new hardware (mostly) they're going to get their money back without needing the hardware back. Lots of people also pay $100-200+ up front for the receivers, then pay the fees, and if the box is still usable they even get it back. Nice triple dip.

I don't think labor costs are really the issue why they don't want them back, even if they're broken. They're not going through a complex troubleshooting process. Its either the motherboard, the power supply or the hard drive. For someone who has replaced those parts a bunch of times a refurbishing is not going to take long. Refurbishers and assemblers don't really get paid much more than $12-15/hour in the US. They can do 4-6 boxes easily in an hour, maybe 8 of them once they get really familiar with it. But you're going to want to do the PS and hard drive on anything 2-3+ years old, and a fan if it has one. $40-60 in parts and a few bucks in labor vs $150 for something with a larger drive, newer faster cpu, and a better customer experience. Its not a great idea to replace someone's dead 4 year old receiver with a refurb 2 year old one that doesn't do all the cool stuff they've been seeing on tv commercials for a year and a half.


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

The reason for the lease model in the first place is that it allows DirecTV to manage the hardware as a depreciable asset, which reduces their tax bill for the full depreciation period (as opposed to one time sale and use, which only generates an offset against income the first year). Therefore, receivers go to "non-recoverable" status once they have exhausted their depreciation schedule (most likely 5 years).


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

unixguru said:


> The ink cartridge in a new printer has far less ink than a replacement cartridge. Its just a "starter" amount. Slightly better than not including a cartridge with a new printer. Ink is what is expensive - or should I say profitable.


I think that depends on who the manufacturer is. Some brands include cartridges that have a full tank.

With others, ten full color pages may be all you get out of a cartridge. Printers claiming to be "photo printers" often fall into this category. It keeps some of the old camera shops and department stores busy with their converted film printers in many cases.


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