# 2013-14 Season Broadcast Ratings - Fall



## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Last night the 2013 fall broadcast network premiers began for ABC and Fox. Here is the overnight ratings results:

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Last year against NBC's "The Voice" which had already premiered but was the only non-repeat regular programming, "Bones" pulled a 2.3/6 demo, 7.82 total and "The Mob Doctor" 1.5/4 - 5.09. This year "Bones" pulled about the same but "Sleepy Hollow" begins with double the ratings. Whether this means anything is unclear since next week NBC will premier "The Voice" and CBS will premier its comedy lineup.

And, of course, Fox will soon begin its "Where's Waldo" cycle of preempting its regular programming for sports and after the preemption period intends to kill "Bones" by having it on the schedule on Fridays beginning November 8.

"Dancing with the Stars" two hour rating was 3.2/9 - 16.19 compared to last year's premier at 2.7 / 7 - 14.58. But last year when "DWTS" premiered "The Voice" was in its third week on NBC and the CBS lineup premiered the same night as "DWTS".

The total number of viewers is surprising given the number of reruns of regularly scheduled shows and other shows.


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## yosoyellobo (Nov 1, 2006)

I have Hostage and The Blacklist set to record the opening plot next week.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

yosoyellobo said:


> I have Hostage and The Blacklist set to record the opening plot next week.


The 10 pm ratings chase should be interesting. Last spring, the new episode average ratings looked like this








"Castle" seemed to be the beneficiary of a solid but weakening lead-in from "DWTS". "Revolution" had "The Voice" as a lead-in. Whether "Hawaii Five-0" declined on its own merits last year or was the victim of the lead-in competition is unknown.

This year NBC's "The Blacklist" will benefit from "The Voice" but much like "Revolution" it is a gamble on a relatively unknown writer and, other than James Spader, a gamble on a relatively unknown cast. Whether it can grab and hold an audience is a question in my mind.

"Hostages" is the product of Jerry Bruckheimer's company and has Emmy, Golden Globe, and other award winning stars. But that and a dollar will buy you a cup of coffee. CBS has stuck by it's comedy lead-in approach but with a couple of newbies. Unfortunately, those comedies don't do so well buried in the midst of "The Voice" and "DWTS."


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## Church AV Guy (Jul 9, 2007)

phrelin! It's good to see these posts back. Thanks a lot, in advance. I have always enjoyed them.

A rerun of Castle did better than I would have expected, though it was last season's finale. Also, Sleepy Hollow did very good. The "village" had a sign with the population listed as 144,000. Biblically, that's a very significant number. I wonder if there will be many Easter Eggs in the show, like Lost?


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Church AV Guy said:


> phrelin! It's good to see these posts back. Thanks a lot, in advance. I have always enjoyed them.
> 
> A rerun of Castle did better than I would have expected, though it was last season's finale. Also, Sleepy Hollow did very good. The "village" had a sign with the population listed as 144,000. Biblically, that's a very significant number. I wonder if there will be many Easter Eggs in the show, like Lost?


Happy to be doing these even as broadcast viewers become less and less important to advertisers due to streaming. I have a feeling you're going to be right about the Easter Eggs in "Sleepy Hollow." The thing about 144,000 is that it's not only biblically significant, it's also a significant number for the Mayan Calendar, though I would guess the Mayans aren't watching much Fox TV.

Here's Tuesday:

​Last year, "New Girl" premiered slightly lower but it was a week later, they did two episodes and had other new season competition. On that same night a year ago, "Mindy Project" premiered at 2.4/6 - 4.73, so this year's premier ratings do not bode well for the show. "Dads" and "Brooklyn 99" premiered better than "Ben and Kate" and much better than the "Raising Hope" 2012 season premier (on October 2) which pulled 1.7/5 - 3.89. I have no idea what any of this means since "NCIS" was still a rerun and NBC's "America's Got Talent" in the 9-11 pm slot was headed towards tonight's season finale. And, of course, as I noted yesterday Fox does like to play "Where's Waldo" with their schedule.


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## tsmacro (Apr 28, 2005)

Hmmmm......looks like NBC's Million Second Quiz isn't exactly burning up the ratings either. Of course it took me a second to figure out where it even was since it's not even listed. Awful lot of hoopla for something that doesn't seem to be doing much, oh well being a game show even if it's relatively expensive game show, they'll probably still come out ahead as those are usually less expensive to produce than scripted television anyway. I will say this I've watched it since the second night and I can understand why the ratings aren't great, it took me something like two nights to really figure out the format and how it all worked, it was definitely a little confusing. There's been some good competition though and that's kept me watching.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

I know this week's ratings are going to be a little odd, but the focus is to be on the 2013 Fall shows. It's just easier for me not to list all the Summer show finales. I don't do anything with the Summer broadcast ratings as they're in heavy competition with cable channel Summer lineups.

Anyway, here's Wednesday:

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Last year "Survivor" premiered with 3.1/10 - 11.22 compared to this year's 2.6/8 - 9.52. It might look worrisome for CBS, but last year "The X Factor" pulled 3.5/10 - 9.38 compare to this year's 2.2/7 - 6.56. I guess it should be comforting to CBS that they didn't take as hard a hit as Fox. But the fact that total broadcast TV viewership is down 17% and demo viewership is down 26% from year-to-year probably isn't all that comforting.

That brings up the overall strategy issue. It appears that CBS has kept it "eye" (pun intended) on the 50+ crowd. That seems like a smart move since CBS is in the broadcast network business. Fox still focuses on the demo and as last night's numbers show, they're a fickle bunch who are moving away from watching traditional TV. As each year goes by a new bunch of new-media-oriented 18-year-olds come in while 49-year-olds age out. It is only going to get worse for Fox as a broadcast network.

The thing is that CBS has two long-running reality shows - "Survivor" and "Amazing Race" - which seem to hold a core audience. In the case of "Survivor" its average ratings last Spring against "American Idol" was 2.5/8 - 9.45. Those folks came back for the premier.

The long-term issue for advertisers is going to be "what is the comparative dollar-for-dollar value of streaming/on-demand ads?" The long-term issue for CBS is if and when the Netflix economic model will become a better option. When your corporation is basically Showtime and CBS, the latter with a sports component, you have to start wondering about the value of the broadcast network affiliate model. Fortunately, CBS won't have to confront that immediately because they have found a way to "monetize" 50+ folks. And they have started meaningful streaming tests as we see in stories like CBS Sports will stream Alabama vs. Aggies on its website, mobile apps:


> When Alabama takes on Texas A&M in college football this afternoon, CBS will have more to offer than just a dedicated "Johnny Cam" following the Heisman winner all day (no, it will not be giving away autographed memorabilia). CBS plans to stream every SEC "Game of the Week" (most are TBD right now, check the schedule after the break) it broadcasts, and this one is up first. That means fans can watch on CBSSports.com or via its https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/cbs-sports/id307184892 (update: Android too). As an added bonus for fans, just like its Super Bowl live stream and in the NFL's Game Rewind service, there's an All-22 "eye in the sky" angle available as an alternative to the broadcast feed. Shot from a high view over the 50 yard line to show ever player on the field, it lets fans who dig the Xs and Os watch the way coaches do when they break down game film. Internet viewers will have the alternate camera angle plus live stats, Twitter integration, polls and on-demand video clips.


CBS is the corporation to monitor if you want to see what will become the logical way for a corporation heavily invested in broadcast TV to deal with the changing media environment.

In the meantime, I'll report the ratings.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

There were no Fall season premiers Thursday but here are the ratings:

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The only matter of note here is that "The X-Factor" last year pulled 3.4/11 - 9.85 compared to this year's 1.9/6 - 6.07 which is consistent with the Wednesday ratings drop for the show. I'm not quite sure what Fox will do with this show since they won't move it to Friday like everything else that doesn't get ratings. But IMHO they would be much, much better off to move "Bones" to 8 pm Thursday right now and move "The X-Factor" weekly part 2 to Friday.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Here's Friday where many shows go to die:

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The only premiers were on ABC. What we see is that "The Neighbors" fell from its season finale last March 1.5/5 - 5.51 and from "Malibu Country" series finale last March 1.4/5 - 7.00. But "Last Man Standing" also fell from its March finale 1.6/6 - 7.85 and "Shark Tank" fell from its last season May finale of 1.9/7 - 6.57. It wasn't a particularly auspicious premier Friday for ABC.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Last night's ratings we're worthless for determining the future of any show and instead are primarily for bragging rights (and revenue) as NBC won the demo with the NFL game and CBS won the 50+ crowd (and total viewers) with the Emmy Awards:

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That CBS is relying on us 50+ folks to maintain its lead has been established. Last night ABC and Fox received the "participant" ribbon. There will be some adjustments because of all the time variations, but it isn't all that important unless you are Barney Stinson/Doogie Howser aka Neil Patrick Harris who may turn out to be the new great host of award shows.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Here's Monday at almost-full competition (The CW premiers are set for October 7):

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*NBC*. The big grins are in the executive suites at NBC this morning. The Peacock's tail is on full display as "The Voice" dominates the 8-10 pm race and led the way into "The Blacklist" premier grabbing 48% of demo viewers and 36% of 50+ viewers giving it 39.9% of total viewers. I haven't seen any of the 10 pm shows yet, but if the 50+ like "The Blacklist" that's gravy for NBC.

*ABC* won the 50+ viewers which apparently the network doesn't find satisfying if this year's one-episode-per-week scheduling of "DWTS" means anything.

*Fox* should be happy with "Sleepy Hollow" as it was #2 in the demo and beat CBS in total viewers in the 9 pm hour.

*CBS* suits should be in a panic. "Hostages" is already in the "move it to Friday or Sunday" class. There is no "Hawaii Five-0" is long-in-the-tooth excuse which was used last year. The comedies did about as well as I expected. The newbee "Mom" is well done, but is in the wrong time slot.

*The CW* shows which premier in two weeks will have no chance against the other network Monday lineups, even worse than usual. That's unfortunate for CBS which owns 50%.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Here we go, Tuesday at almost-full competition (The CW premiers are set for October 8):

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*CBS*. Tuesday has been the Eye Network's night. And in terms of total viewers, last night was no exception in every hour. However, a bit of brow-furrowing is going on in the executive suite this morning. It's not that CBS has an immediate problem. It's just that in terms of the year 2020 the future is obvious.

Two years ago "NCIS" pulled 4.2/12 - 19.5. Last year it was 4.1/12 - 20.16. Neither was against "The Voice" blind auditions. This year's 3.4/10 -19.47 demonstrates that those in the 18-49 demo who will watch "NCIS" live+same day are not committed to a show. My guess is that many in the demo age group who normally watch "NCIS" instead watched "The Voice" and recorded "NCIS" for later or will stream it. It isn't like the advertised story line for the season opener wouldn't be a grabber for loyal "NCIS" fans. It's just that it works to watch it on your smart phone on the lunch hour today.

"NCIS: LA" two years ago pulled 3.6/9 - 16.69 and one year ago 3.4/9 - 16.72 compared to this year's 3.0/8 - 16.17.

Shifted by CBS from Thursday at 9 pm, "Person of Interest" pulled a 2.3/4 - 12.29. Two years ago "Unforgettable" pulled 2.9/8 - 13.98 and a year ago "Vegas" pulled 2.5/7 - 14.70 in this time slot. Two years ago "Person of Interest" premiered on Thursday at 9 pm with a 3.1/8 -13.22 and a year ago it pulled 2.9/8 -14.27.

*NBC*. The NBC executive suite is full of grinning suits. Their lineup handily won the demo races, 8-to-10 pm and 8-to-11 pm. As we all know, two years ago the Peacock Network was a solid #4. And last spring, "Chicago Fire" was barely hanging on to #2 on Wednesday at 10 pm.

*Fox*. Seeing an opening for a solid #4 position on Tuesday, the suits at Fox jumped in with both feet. They now hold the lead for this season's "we're-out-of-touch-with-the-viewers" award.

*ABC*. The suits at the Alphabet Network need to worry. "Lucky 7" is DOA. While the "Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D." premier did well in the demo providing a lead-in to the comedy shows at 9 pm., those comedy shows will have to appeal to viewers on their own to maintain decent ratings by mid-season.

*The CW* shows will premier in two weeks.

It's interesting to note that a premier week Tuesday finds 18 million viewers who weren't there for the broadcast networks last week.


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## Supramom2000 (Jun 21, 2007)

I had no desire to even add Lucky 7 to a one-night recording. Nothing about it appealed to me in any way. For all I know, it could have been a gripping show, but the advertising that was done, and the concept as I saw it, left me uncaring.


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## renbutler (Oct 17, 2008)

The ads for both of those ABC comedies looked horrible. I can't believe one of them pulled a 3+.



phrelin said:


> *ABC*. The suits at the Alphabet Network need to worry. "Lucky 7" is DOA. While the "Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D." premier did well in the demo providing a lead-in to the comedy shows at 9 pm., those comedy shows will have to appeal to viewers on their own to maintain decent ratings by mid-season.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

renbutler said:


> The ads for both of those ABC comedies looked horrible. I can't believe one of them pulled a 3+.


Much to my surprise, both my wife and I liked "Trophy Wife." On the other hand, we're not so sure about "The Goldbergs" which seems like a SNL parody of "The Wonder Years."

Here's Wednesday:

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*ABC* won the demo based solely on the "Modern Family" one-hour premier. But there was no network winner last night. Compared to this year's 4.1/11 - 11.45, two years ago a one hour "Modern Family" premier pulled 6.0/15 - 14.29 and last year's half hour pulled 5.5/15 - 14.21. And "The Middle" saw declines. "Nashville" came in #3 in the 10 pm slot.

*CBS* retained bragging rights to the total viewer scores because of the strength of its programming with the 50+ crowd.

*NBC*. The Comcast suits, after a strong Monday and Tuesday, must be questioning their scheduling decision for Wednesdays. Last year "Revolution" premiered in its 10 pm Monday time slot with a 4.1/11 - 11.65. Of course, NBC premiered their stuff a week ahead of the other nets, so the show premiered against no competition. But it was strong in the demo last spring. I don't get the 8 pm Wednesday time slot for this show. But the two hour "L&O:SVU" did well, looking really good in the 10 pm hour. I'm not sure that will be any indication of how well the "Ironside" remake will do.

*Fox*. "The X-Factor" won the demo in the 8 pm slot but with numbers that led it to the #3 position at 9 pm. The problem for Fox is going to be the gradual disappearance of the demo from traditional TV. At the point they may have to appeal to the 50+ viewers but they will have to replace everyone in the executive suite. Or maybe Fox got it right by taking the lead on the huge hike in retransmission fees thereby taxing the 50+ crowd to support their programming aimed at the younger crowd still stuck watching live TV. But those aren't members of the younger crowd with a lot of disposable income.

*The CW* shows will premier in two weeks.


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## tsmacro (Apr 28, 2005)

phrelin said:


> *NBC*. The Comcast suits, after a strong Monday and Tuesday, must be questioning their scheduling decision for Wednesdays. Last year "Revolution" premiered in its 10 pm Monday time slot with a 4.1/11 - 11.65. Of course, NBC premiered their stuff a week ahead of the other nets, so the show premiered against no competition. But it was strong in the demo last spring. I don't get the 8 pm Wednesday time slot for this show.


Yeah I seem to remember that Revolution was pretty competitive in it's Monday 10 pm timeslot last year. Looks like the night and time change didn't do that show any favors.


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## yosoyellobo (Nov 1, 2006)

Supramom2000 said:


> I had no desire to even add Lucky 7 to a one-night recording. Nothing about it appealed to me in any way. For all I know, it could have been a gripping show, but the advertising that was done, and the concept as I saw it, left me uncaring.


When I found out I was not one of the seven I lost interest.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Here's Thursday:

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*CBS* won every half hour in total viewers and won the demo from 8:00 to 9:30. At 9:30 about 10% of the demo viewers found something else to do other than watch broadcast network TV. Two years ago CBS premiered "Big Bang Theory" with two episodes. Compared to this year's hour average of 5.6/17 - 18.90, two years ago for the whole hour the show scored 4.9/15 - 14.26. Looking at the 8:00 slot, this year's score was 5.3/18 - 18.30, last year was 4.8/15 - 15.31, and two years ago 4.8/15 - 14.06. "The Crazy Ones" scored a win for CBS against "Grey's Anatomy".

*ABC*. The "Grey's Anatomy" premier gave ABC the 10 pm win and bragging rights to #2 despite the rerun at 8 pm.

*Fox*. In the 8 pm hour "The X-Factor" was #2 in the demo and the 50+ crowd with its 4.8/15 - 14.06 which compared favorably to last year's 3.2/10 - 9.19 and 3.9/11 - 11.43 two years ago. On the other hand, "Glee" with 2.0/5 - 5.17 is down from its early premier last year's 3.3/9 - 8.09.

*NBC*. On what used to be - a long, long time ago - "Must See TV" night, NBC's shows gave the network a solid last place (ignoring The CW).

*The CW* will offer premiers next week.

It's worth noting that 13+ million more viewers watched last night compared to last week including 5+ million demo viewers.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

phrelin said:


> Much to my surprise, both my wife and I liked "Trophy Wife." On the other hand, we're not so sure about "The Goldbergs" which seems like a SNL parody of "The Wonder Years."
> 
> Here's Wednesday:
> 
> ...


Trophy wife seems to be the funniest new show I have so far.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Here's Friday:

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*CBS* won the Friday night contest, for what it's worth. They won the 50+ category in all six half hours and the demo in the 10 pm hour and tied in the 8:30 half hour. Compared to this year's 1.7/6 - 11.39, last year "Blue Bloods" premiered with 1.5/5 - 11.11 and two years ago 2.0/6 - 11.85. It's tough to compare the "Hawaii Five-0" premier ratings of 1.5/5 - 9.38 in this time slot, but it certainly did better than the "Made In Jersey" premier last year which pulled only 1.1/4 - 7.74. Two years ago "CSI: NY" scored 1.8/6 - 10.67 which means "Hawaii Five-0" is not only pulling 20% fewer demo viewers, it is down 50+ viewers by 11%.

*ABC*'s comedies and "20/20" fell from last week's premiers. However, "Shark Tank" was up slightly. This gave them the #2 position with "Shark Tank" winning the demo in the 9 pm hour.

*NBC* was #3 in the 8-11 race but did beat...

*...Fox* in the 50+ crowd in the 8-10 race.

*The CW*. I'm not sure this matters, but in the 8 pm slot a year ago "America's Next Top Model" scored 0.5/2 - 0.92 compared to this year's 0.4/1 - 0.99 in the 9 pm slot.

It's import to note that between 8-10 there were 12± million fewer viewers than Thursday which pretty much tells us how devalued Friday is.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Sunday is always difficult because of the variables NFL games throughout time zones which affect CBS, Fox and NBC. So I have to wait for the Sunday ratings final results which usually aren't available until Tuesday morning. Here's how I interpret the numbers for this past premier Sunday:

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*NBC* controls Sunday night with NFL football. The results do vary from year-to-year depending on which teams are playing .This year the Patriots/Falcons game scored 7.6/20 - 20.49. Least year's Eagle/Giants game pulled 9.0/23 - 22.76. Two years ago the Steelers/Colts pulled 8.3/21 - 20.36.

*CBS* came in a distant #2 in total viewers in every half hour. With that said, over three years CBS has seen a drop in total viewers in every hour. Last year "60 Minutes" scored 1.7/5 - 11.52, "Amazing Race" 2.5/6 - 9.40, "Good Wife" 1.8/4 - 9.93, "Mentalist" 2.1/5 - 11.06. Two years ago "60 Minutes" scored 2.3/6 - 12.270, "Amazing Race" 3.0/7 - 10.18, "Good Wife" 2.2/5 - 10.66, "CSI: Miami" 2.3/6 - 9.89.

*Fox* came in a distant #2 in the 18-49 demo in the 7-10 race seeing a drop in their animated lineup. Ignoring football, last year "Simpsons" scored 3.8/10 - 8.08, "Bob's Burgers" 2.6/6 - 5.46, "Family Guy" 3.3/8 - 6.55, "American Dad" 2.5/6 - 6.55. Two years ago "Simpsons" scored 3.9/10 - 8.08, "Cleveland Show" 3.1/7 - 6.13, "Family Guy" 4.1/9-7.69, "American Dad" 3.0/7 - 5.83.

*ABC*. The Disney suits have every reason to be worried. Their "Sunday at the Soaps" night can't seem to catch a win to brag about. And last year "OUAT" scored 3.9/10 - 11.36 which means this year's 2.6/7 - 8.52 is a 34% drop in the demo. "Revenge" last year scored 3.2/8 - 9.74 which means a 28% drop in the demo. "Betrayal" is DOA. "666 Park Avenue" last year scored 2.1/5 -6.90. In that 10 pm slot two years ago "Pan Am" scored 3.1/8 - 11.06.

Again, I have to emphasize how difficult it is to derive any opinions about the Sunday night ratings. Next week, the NBC football game is scheduled to run on the East Coast 8:20 - 11:30 and on the West Coast 5:20 to 8:30. What that means is the 9:00 to 11:00 shows have very different ratings on the West Coast than on the East Coast. And it does matter which teams are playing as the ratings very each week from DMA to DMA depending on whether DMA's home team is televised.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Here's Monday with the addition of new episode averages to date:

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*NBC* continues to control Monday night though even "The Voice" ratings reflected the drop in viewers overall from last week. Nonetheless the Peacock Network gained in its percentage share of total viewers for the night.

*ABC* continues as #2 in total viewers.

*Fox* continues as #2 in the demo from 8-10 pm with "Bones" actually seeing a gain in the demo over last week even though the other nets saw a drop during the 8 pm hour.

*CBS* week-to-week in the 8-10 contest saw a 20% drop in its demo rating and a 17% drop in its 50+ rating. "Hostages" had a DOA rating last week (at least in terms of most shows on CBS historically) saw a significant drop in its ratings. Whether this show, which supposedly is a 15 episode mini-series, will be moved to Saturday to be burned off is the question. CEO Les Moonves must be pacing the floor in the CBS executive suite as he has to know that other than scheduling a bunch of really cheap shows on Monday, there is no simple way to gain in the 8-10 race. Remember that in 2010 CBS ratings were:

How I Met Your Mother: 3.6/10 - 8.73
Accidentally on Purpose: 3.1/8 - 8.07
Two and a Half Men: 4.7/11 - 13.64
The Big Bang Theory: 5.1/12 - 13.02
CSI: Miami: 4.1/11 - 13.46

*The CW* will premier its season next week.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Here's Tuesday:

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*CBS* won the bragging rights to #1 in total viewers in every half hour. The question is do 4.4 million (63%) more 50+ viewers offset NBC's 1.1 million (32%) more demo viewers in economic terms? In other words does 4.4 million equal or exceed 1.1 million in economic value in the advertising world?

*NBC* was the demo winner for the night. Next week NBC will premier in the 8 pm slot the new season of "The Biggest Loser" reducing the second night of "The Voice" to one hour. It's likely the Peacock will lose a feather or two in that hour.

*However*, "Chicago Fire" has been "discovered" or "rediscovered" by demo and 50+ viewers. The show is currently delivering series record ratings, beat results for its second episode of last season by 87% in 18-49 rating (2.8 vs. 1.5 on Wednesday, Oct. 17, 2012) and by 54% in total viewers (9.00 million vs. 5.85 million). The 2.8 rating is NBC's top 18-49 result in this time period with in-season regular programming since May 24, 2011 ("The Voice"). Along with "The Blacklist" on Monday night, this indicates NBC has successfully recovered from what appeared to be a fatal downslide by providing both shows with a solid lead-in, "The Voice." It is clear the lead-in only gives a show a chance as it doesn't guarantee the show can retain the viewers - think "Smash". It looks good for NBC, but we'll see how it goes over time.

*ABC*. The second episode of "Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D." lost 33% in the demo and 27% in the 50+ crowd from its premier last week losing a total of 3.5 million viewers. Since the 8 pm time slot total viewers was down 4.33 million viewers, it means most of that "SHIELD" loss were viewers who left the couch to do something else. Whether they'll keep leaving is the big question in the ABC executive offices as last night's ratings were still pretty good albeit below "NCIS". The problem for ABC is that loss-of-viewers trend continued through the 9 pm comedy hour. And the body of "Lucky 7" which was DOA last week is starting to smell. The network needs to move it to the morgue.

*Fox*'s comedy lineup averaged 8% of total viewers and the only show that had a chance, "New Girl", scored the demo-oriented network high for the night with an unacceptable 1.9/5.

*The CW* will premier its season next week.


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## renbutler (Oct 17, 2008)

phrelin said:


> *Fox*'s comedy lineup averaged 8% of total viewers and the only show that had a chance, "New Girl", scored the demo-oriented network high for the night with an unacceptable 1.9/5.


Unfortunately, she's all by herself in that dreadful lineup. I think the show will survive for two reasons: a fourth season is required for syndication, and I'm sure that FOX understands the dreck surrounding the show is dragging it down.


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## renbutler (Oct 17, 2008)

Also, New Girl scored a 1.9 once last year, and it's really not far off the consistent 2.0-2.2 for each of the last six episodes last year.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

renbutler said:


> Unfortunately, she's all by herself in that dreadful lineup. I think the show will survive for two reasons: a fourth season is required for syndication, and I'm sure that FOX understands the dreck surrounding the show is dragging it down.





renbutler said:


> Also, New Girl scored a 1.9 once last year, and it's really not far off the consistent 2.0-2.2 for each of the last six episodes last year.


I agree that the show is being killed by scheduling. The problem is where to put it. Truthfully, It seems like it and a decent comedy could successfully garner Fox some ratings on Friday if they'd quit thinking of Friday as a place to put dying shows.Or in November they could try "Almost Human" at 8 pm Tuesday to give "New Girl" a lead-in and leave "Bones" on Monday rather move to Friday.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Here's Wednesday:

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*CBS* won every half hour in total viewers which means they've got the 50+ crowd. They also won the demo in 8-9pm half hours and the 10-11 pm half hours.

*ABC*, as usual, with "Modern Family" won the 9-9:30 half hour in the demo but saw a drop in 50+ viewers from last week's premier which dropped it to #2 in total viewers. Last year we had the Presidential Debates on the comparable night, but two years ago the show pulled 5.6/14 - 13.24. The premier of "Super Fun Night" benefited from the "Modern Family" lead-in. But based on previous years, it will have to earn its keep on its own after the premier. The rest of the ABC lineup saw ratings drops from last week indicating the shows are not live+same day viewer magnets.

*Fox*'s "X-Factor" two years ago pulled 4.3/11 - 12.29 compared to this year's 2.4/7 - 7.76, but last night the show held a solid #3 in the demo and 50+ groups.

*NBC*. The lineup of "Revolution", "L&O: SVU" and the premier of "IronsIde" kept the Peacock well above The CW's reruns for the night. That's pathetic, of course. But "Revolution" was sagging last May even on Mondays with "The Voice" lead-in as it pulled 1.9/5 - 6.48 the week before its finale against no regular season show on the other networks. The venerable "L&O: SVU" continues to be an "adequate placeholder."

Which brings the discussion to the premier of "Ironside". Despite some advertising push and Blair Underwood, plus the possible appeal to old folks who remember the original, NBC failed to attract a strong audience for the show. It did pull more 50+ viewers in the 10:00 pm half hour than "SVU" had in the 9:30 pm half hour. But by 10:30 pm it lost almost 1 million 50+ viewers who probably wanted to see the ghost of Raymond Burr.

*The CW* will premier its season next week.


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## renbutler (Oct 17, 2008)

Too bad about Revolution, because it's become a more complex and challenging show so far in the second season. I thought I might be alone in thinking this, but I've also seen reviews that indicate I'm not.

I can't believe it's on at 8:00 with all of its graphic violence.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

renbutler said:


> Too bad about Revolution, because it's become a more complex and challenging show so far in the second season. I thought I might be alone in thinking this, but I've also seen reviews that indicate I'm not.
> 
> I can't believe it's on at 8:00 with all of its graphic violence.


I agree with both your points. The second season has become more complex and placing it at 8 pm is a mistake. Perhaps they'll move it to 10 pm to replace "Ironside" as it might grow an audience there.

Here's Thursday:

​​






*CBS* won the night overall but in the demo only because of "Big Bang Theory" and the premier of "The Millers" both of which won its half hour in the demo and 50+ crowd. "The Crazy Ones" and "Two and a Half Men" won the 50+ crowd but came in #2 in the demo and "Elementary" was #2 in the both age groups.

*ABC*'s "Grey's Anatomy" and "Scandal" won the demo in their hours but will not premier its 8 pm entry until next week.

*Fox* had a solid #2 in the 8 pm hour with "The X Factor" but it appears "Glee" has a problem.

*NBC* tied The CW in the demo in the 8 pm hour. In terms of reputation, Thursday night's comedy ratings are worse than NBC ratings from three years ago and it's hard to imagine they'll see a ratings rise this year. "Parenthood" is performing better than "The Apprentice" did three years ago.

*The CW*. "The Vampire Diaries" last year premiered at 1.6/5 - 3.48 compared to this year's 1.2/4 - 2.55. The show's 2012-13 season finale scored 1.0/3 - 2.20 against the season finale of "American Idol" as well as the season finale of "Big Bang Theory", both of which score well with the demo. It's not unusual for the show to get a 30%+ jump when the live+7 ratings are in and the network's 16-29 female target demo do stream shows. But the network decided to premier "The Originals" instead of at Tuesday 8 pm next week. That decision may not have helped the show.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

The ratings shakeout has started. While "The Blacklist" received a full season order from NBC, "Lucky 7" got the ax from ABC.

Here's Friday:

​​






*CBS* won every half hour in the 50+ crowd giving it bragging rights to total viewers. "Undercover Boss" won the 8:30 half hour in the demo, otherwise the Eye's shows were #2. Last year "Blue Bloods" pulled 1.2/4 - 9.59 in its second week so this year's 1.4/5 - 11.09 represents growth.

*ABC* won the demo in every half hour but at 8:30 when "The Neighbors" dropped to #3. Unfortunately, what I think is a very clever comedy likely is in its last season and will be limited to 10-13 episodes.

*NBC* will air its fall lineup October 25.

*Fox*'s "Junior Masterchef" ran #3 in a three-way new episode contest with ABC and CBS.

*The CW*'s current plan is to start the season of "The Carrie Diaries" on October 25.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Here's Sunday, for what it's worth:

​​






There's not a lot one can say about this past Monday as NBC won with NFL football and CBS has it's ratings fouled up with a NFL football overrun in the Eastern time zone. As noted last week these are final ratings indicating shows in the regularly scheduled time slots even though in parts of the country the CBS shows ran quite late.

Here's Monday:

​​






Overall in three weeks there has been a general slide in demo viewership (-10% at 8-10 pm and -15% 8-11 pm).

*CBS*. The downward demo trend impact has most affected CBS and least affected NBC. The 50+ viewership has been reasonably stable which, given each network's normal appeal, should have benefited CBS. But the CBS Monday lineup fails to appeal to the 50+ viewers, leaving it in last place among the older folks (ignoring The CW) and last in the demo except for "HIMYM" at 8 pm which ran #2. The question for CBS suits is does this Monday problem represent a problem in programming that could extend into other nights in the next few years? It must be noted that "2 Broke Girls" ran #4 in the demo during the 9 pm half hour with its 2.2/6 - 7.18, compared to last year's 3.7/9 - 10.12 and two years ago 4.4/11 - 11.37. That's a 50% drop in the demo and a 25% drop in the 50+ crowd. Of course, sitcoms can be easily replaced, but It will be interesting to see what they do with "Hostages" in the short term.

*NBC*. The Sunday-Monday wins for the Peacock really don't mean as much for the future as they might like. They can't schedule NFL games every night and they know from experience that reality competition show big winners like "The Voice" tend to be the result of an accidental combination of ideas and personalities that appeal. Nonetheless, the situation has permitted "The Blacklist" to hold a large audience. Truthfully, being among the older audience I don't understand why "Castle" is still ahead of "The Blacklist" in the 50+.

*ABC* continues to do well with the 50+ viewers on Monday night. That gives them bragging rights as #2 in total viewers for the night for whatever that's worth.

*Fox*. "Bones" did tie for #2 in the demo in the 8:30 half hour which may be all Fox can hope for during the 8 pm hour. "Sleepy Hollow" was also #2 in the demo.

*The CW* premiered new seasons of "Hart of Dixie" and "Beauty & the Beast". Both shows premiered with higher ratings than "90210" and "Gossip Girl" did last year, but were down from their premiers on other nights last year. I would guess they lose a lot of their target 16-25 female demo audience to "The Voice" but one has to assume there's going to continue to be a loss of live audience to on-demand streaming which the network encourages. They also sell music and trinkets on their web site, so their goals are different from others.

Finally, we should be aware of the fact that Univision consistently scores well enough to be the #5 broadcast network and in the 18-34 demo they are frequently #3 or #4 in the 18-49 demo when their viewers are factored into the totals. We'll see more about this in the future.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Here's Tuesday:

​​






Ratings are about money. Each viewer is worth advertising money. Over the past three weeks the number of viewers on Tuesday night has declined. Those watching the five networks between 8-10 pm declined 11%, 15% in the demo, 10% in the 50+ crowd. Those watching the three networks between 8-11 pm declined 26%, 31% in the demo, 23% in the 50+ crowd. There are a lot of ways to view the numbers, but the decline from premier night is meaningful.

There is another way to view the numbers, however. In 1960 the highest rated show "Gunsmoke" pulled an average 17.6 million viewers while "NCIS" last night garnered 17.9 million viewers. Yes, "Gunsmoke" viewership represented 37% of TV households while "NCIS" viewership represents less than half the number of TV households today. Sometimes, one has to wonder if in relative value one 1960 viewer was worth more to advertisers than one 2013 viewer.

Anyway...

*CBS* is the network that in recent years has been the most effective at getting and keeping viewers in a consistent manner. Tuesday night in particular has been the Eye network's to lose. Here's how CBS Tuesday ratings have looked in comparable weeks over the past three years:







*"Person of Interest" ran on Thursday at 9 pm in prior years but in​2012 the Vice-Presidential Debate preempted the normal schedule.​
The fact is that "NCIS" has lost significant numbers of 18-49 demo viewers, ostensibly to "The Voice", but probably to a change in how the demo interacts with entertainment options. It will be interesting to see what happens when NBC airs its regularly scheduled 8 pm show "The Biggest Loser" next week. But it's worth noting that they have plans to move "The Voice" second night to the 8 pm slot in the Winter schedule.

"Person of Interest" which last May was pulling numbers like 2.4/7 - 12.76 on Thursday at 9 pm was moved to 10 pm Tuesday with the full knowledge that the move in time slot on weeknights from 9 pm to 10 pm guarantees a loss in the younger 18-34 viewers. What CBS may not have anticipated is that "The Voice" was going to carry the 18-49 demo viewers into "Chicago Fire" which is an appealing show to the demo. Primary "Chicago Fire" cast members include Jesse Spencer, 34, Taylor Kinney, 32, Monica Raymund, 27, Lauren German, 35. and Charlie Barnett, 24.

"Person of Interest" offers cast members Michael Emerson, 59, Kevin Chapman, 51, Jim Caviezel, 45, and Taraji P. Henson, 43. Yes, they've added Sarah Shahi, 33, as a regular. But that's not going to hold the demo as 49-year-olds age out and 17-year-olds age in.

It is a complex issue as it does appear that in live+same day viewers the 50+ group watch different TV than the 18-34 group, and the latter are watching far less live TV than in the past. What moves CBS makes will be interesting.

*NBC* clearly won the night among the demo viewers. However, they are only getting 60% of the 50+ viewers that CBS gets. How that affects revenue is not clear to me.

*ABC* is a solid #3 and the rerun of "Scandal" outperformed last week's "Lucky 7" which was canceled, a financially winning move.

*Fox*, in terms of its prized 18-49 demo, appears to have a lock on #4 except at 9:30 where The CW's "Supernatural" pulled a threatening 1.2/3 compared to "The Mindy' Project" 1.4/4.

*The CW* premiered "Supernatural" to solid ratings, the highest since 2010.


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## Church AV Guy (Jul 9, 2007)

I read that We are Men has been cancelled.

http://insidetv.ew.com/2013/10/09/we-are-men-canceled/

The second show to die early. I have herd rumors that Hostages and Revenge won't be too far behind.


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## Church AV Guy (Jul 9, 2007)

I read that We are Men has been cancelled.

http://insidetv.ew.com/2013/10/09/we-are-men-canceled/

The second show to die early. I have herd rumors that Hostages and Revenge won't be too far behind.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Church AV Guy said:


> I read that We are Men has been cancelled.
> 
> http://insidetv.ew.com/2013/10/09/we-are-men-canceled/
> 
> The second show to die early. I have herd rumors that Hostages and Revenge won't be too far behind.


Yep. CBS is bringing "Mike & Molly" back in November while shuffling "2 Broke Girls" to 8:30 next Monday. I don't think that's going to help them much, but who knows? They don't have any momentum to replace "Hostages" and if they move something like "The Mentalist" there it will simply kill that show IMHO.

Here's Wednesday:

​​






*CBS* won every half hour in the demo and total viewers except at 9:00 pm when ABC's "Modern Family" won the demo.

*ABC*. As was the case for Monday and Tuesday, there continues to be a dropoff in total demo viewers. Unfortunate for ABC, that drop has been reflected in its ratings. The names of the shows "Back in the Game" and "Super Fun Night" apparently do not reflect what the viewers think.

*Fox* has problems with "X-Factor".

*NBC*. Apparently "Revolution" has found it's viewers and they do exceed The CW's "Arrow." "L&O:SVU" probably achieved the same goal last night. "Ironside" will have to be canceled.

*The CW*. "Arrow" premiered at the same level as last season's finale which meant it didn't give a solid lead-in to "The Tomorrow People." Whether these shows will do well in the twitterverse giving decent streaming numbers will remain to be seen, but not by us here.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Here's Thursday:

​​






*CBS* actually has bragging rights for the night because of the "Big Bang Theory" ratings even though the Eye only won the demo in the 8:00 and 8:30 half hours. They clearly have a lock on the 50+ viewers.

*Fox* claimed #2 in the demo 8-10 pm race with "X-Factor" and with "Gee" edging out "Grey's Anatomy".

*ABC* created "Once Upon a Time in Wonderland" in its effort to find something for the Thursday 8 pm slot that might attract viewers. It was only having the good fortune that NBC wants to set records as the worst network ever that they came in #3 at 8 pm. "Grey's Anatomy" came in #2 in the demo and "Scandal" #1.

*NBC*. This headline summed up the night for NBC: NBC Ties All-Time Thursday Low, Finishes Seventh In Primetime Last Night as the Peacock worked for retrans fees last night. The article notes: "NBC finished as No. 7(!) in primetime last night behind CBS, the NFL Network, ABC, Fox, Univision and TBS." If it hadn't been for "Parenthood" they might as well have run an old Bob Hope movie. And they are killing "Parenthood" in that Thursday time slot. But hey, "Parenthood" which is a pretty great drama has had at least two series finale shows, or was it three? I wonder if they would consider moving Leno.... :sure:

*The CW* is The CW, what else can I say?


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## renbutler (Oct 17, 2008)

phrelin said:


> *NBC*. This headline summed up the night for NBC: NBC Ties All-Time Thursday Low, Finishes Seventh In Primetime Last Night as the Peacock worked for retrans fees last night. The article notes: "NBC finished as No. 7(!) in primetime last night behind CBS, the NFL Network, ABC, Fox, Univision and TBS." If it hadn't been for "Parenthood" they might as well have run an old Bob Hope movie. And they are killing "Parenthood" in that Thursday time slot. But hey, "Parenthood" which is a pretty great drama has had at least two series finale shows, or was it three? I wonder if they would consider moving Leno.... :sure:


Even as a fan of Parenthood, I'd say that the move to Thursday is only part of the problem. I really think the show jumped the shark last year. I know my wife and I aren't nearly as enthusiastic about it as we used to be. Perhaps we're not the only ones.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Here's Friday:

​​






*CBS* last night won ratings bragging rights for whatever that's worth. They again had the 50+ crowd in every half hour. They also won the demo in the 8:30, 10:00, and 10:30 half hours.

*Fox*'s "Junior Masterchef" won the demo in the 8:00 half hour.

*ABC*'s "Shark Tank" won the demo in the 9:00 and 9:30 half hours.

*NBC* was supposed to start its regular Friday schedule on October 25. However, I wonder if they want to use "Grimm" and "Dracula" elsewhere in their schedule, like maybe Thursday?

*The CW* aired content last night. :sure:


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

renbutler said:


> Even as a fan of Parenthood, I'd say that the move to Thursday is only part of the problem. I really think the show jumped the shark last year. I know my wife and I aren't nearly as enthusiastic about it as we used to be. Perhaps we're not the only ones.


"Parenthood" last winter on Tuesday night was getting ratings like 1.8/5 - 4.87 which weren't super when CBS and ABC were offering weak shows ("Vegas" and "Private Practice"). "Parenthood" was, however, getting a big boost in the demo from live+7 DVR use.

But yes, the show has struggled a bit to rebuild its story arcs each season after they essentially ended the prior season with a perfect series finale. By the end of last seasons we were satisfied with the stories. This season we're struggling quit a bit with one of the story lines. But it's tough to find a better ensemble cast on TV today IMHO.


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## Church AV Guy (Jul 9, 2007)

> *NBC*. This headline summed up the night for NBC: NBC Ties All-Time Thursday Low, Finishes Seventh In Primetime Last Night as the Peacock worked for retrans fees last night. The article notes: "NBC finished as No. 7(!) in primetime last night behind CBS, the NFL Network, ABC, Fox, Univision and TBS." If it hadn't been for "Parenthood" they might as well have run an old Bob Hope movie. And they are killing "Parenthood" in that Thursday time slot. But hey, "Parenthood" which is a pretty great drama has had at least two series finale shows, or was it three? I wonder if they would consider moving Leno.... :sure:


If it weren't for The Voice and football, NBC would have nothing at all to speak of. There must be a lot of hand wringing going on in the boardroom over there. These two products are doing very well, but they aren't the whole schedule by a long ways. At the end of the football season, they will be really hurting. I see many dominos falling in their schedule.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Just to satisfy my curiosity, I'm keeping a table showing average ratings by network for new episodes of shows for Monday-Thursday. Those are the nights that the network suits attempt to place continuing series programs that they expect to make their network competitive. Beyond that, strategies differ. Obviously NBC skews Sunday with NFL football. CBS tries to maintain its competitive edge on Friday while it's a graveyard for Fox shows. And sometime in my lifetime Saturday disappeared off the calendar in the broadcast TV world.

The table below is based on ratings through the past week, which is to say they include premiers and a varying number of episodes of shows. If you need to see a large spreadsheet version, just click on the table:

​
It is no surprise that overall CBS has a substantial lead in the 50+ age group. What is surprising is that they have a slight overall lead in the demo. Keep in mind that these numbers involve new episodes of the regularly scheduled programs.


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## renbutler (Oct 17, 2008)

Church AV Guy said:


> If it weren't for The Voice and football, NBC would have nothing at all to speak of. There must be a lot of hand wringing going on in the boardroom over there. These two products are doing very well, but they aren't the whole schedule by a long ways. At the end of the football season, they will be really hurting. I see many dominos falling in their schedule.


Grimm is still chugging along quite nicely, and The Blacklist appears to be a legitimate hit.

Hey, that's more than in recent years. I guess that could be considered progress.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Church AV Guy said:


> If it weren't for The Voice and football, NBC would have nothing at all to speak of. There must be a lot of hand wringing going on in the boardroom over there. These two products are doing very well, but they aren't the whole schedule by a long ways. At the end of the football season, they will be really hurting. I see many dominos falling in their schedule.


"The Voice" functions well for NBC. It's lead-in has given "The Blacklist" a chance to gain an audience on Monday and "Chicago Fire" to build beyond its loyal but small audience on Tuesday. They both are successful this season. The problem with NFL football is that it makes money for NBCU and NBC affiliates and makes NBC Sports look really good, but it does nothing for the folks that have to program a regular schedule except to have to introduce a regular Sunday lineup in the Winter after the other nets have established. On the other hand, last year they squandered the Monday time slot on "Smash" which would have been a great Winter Sunday show. Another piece of advice I'd give them is to not advertise in the most expensive magazines read only by the suits in fashion and media who the suits at 30 Rock party with. They are still squandering advertising money on magazines like Vanity Fair for "The Blacklist." A better choice would be "Guns & Ammo."

Here's Sunday which is worth nothing except to see what baseball playoffs do to NFL Sunday:

​​​The easiest way to look at Sunday is to note that at 9 pm 6 million more folks than normal were watching baseball on Fox. ABC and CBS saw a drop while NBC's NFL game did better than previous weeks. I'm not sure what any of that means other than folks like baseball and some NFL teams have more fans than others.

Here's Monday:

​​






*NBC* won every half hour in the demo and bragging rights to every half hour total viewers.

*ABC* won every half hour in the 50+ crowd.

*Fox* did ok in the 9 pm hour.

*CBS* restructured its comedy lineup giving a boost to "2 Broke Girls" by moving it to 8:30 While the rerun of "The Big Bang Theory" at 9 pm did slightly better than last week's "2 Broke Girls" it didn't help "MOM" much. "Hostages" has its audience at the traditional NBC level which has to be giving CEO Les Moonves heartburn.

*The CW* also aired some new episodes of "Hart of Dixie" and "Beauty & the Beast" last night. What can I say....


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## Supramom2000 (Jun 21, 2007)

I liked Beauty and the Beast last year. This year, not so much. We'll see. But I like a lot of the light CW fluff. Fun, romantic and non thought provoking.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Supramom2000 said:


> I liked Beauty and the Beast last year. This year, not so much. We'll see. But I like a lot of the light CW fluff. Fun, romantic and non thought provoking.


We find we need some of that fluff, particularly because in the past few years a lot of drama programming has gotten darker and darker.

Here's Tuesday:

​​






*CBS*. Tuesday nights were the Eye Network's to lose. They still easily control bragging rights to total viewers in every half hour because they have a substantial lead in the 50+ crowd. "NCIS" won the demo in both its half hours while "Person of Interest" tied for #1 in the demo in the 10:30 half hour. "NCIS: LA" was #2 against "The Voice" one hour show.

*NBC*'s "The Biggest Loser" got its lowest ratings for a premier night. "The Voice" did well giving "Chicago Fire" a demo win in the 10 pm half hour but some of the fickle 18-49 crowd apparently went to bed by 10:30.

*ABC*. "Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D." seems to be bleeding viewers. The 9 pm comedies are not keepers. And, of course, they have already moved a rerun to 10 pm.

*Fox*'s comedy lineup is not doing well.

*The CW* also aired some new episodes of "The Originals" and "Supernatural." On the same week a year ago "Supernatural" was on Wednesday and scored 1.0/3 - 2.19 compared to this year's higher 1.1/3 - 2.31 which I guess is a win for The CW. :sure:


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Here's Wednesday:

​​






I've included last week in the charts for comparison to see the impact of Fox having baseball playoffs and ABC running the animated "Toy Story of Terror" at 8 pm.

*Fox*. Last week "X-Factor" gave Fox the #3 position. This week "X-Factor" fans in my DMA tuned into garbage - the game was over, there was no "X-Factor". So reading between the lines my guess is that they checked out the competition on ABC and CBS and maybe some will like what the saw. Fox suits will be blaming "X-Factor" for losing viewers. Actually, greed on the part of Fox suits blinds them to the damage created by playing _Where's Waldo_ with their scheduling. People who view "live" expect dependability. It isn't like running the baseball playoffs gets great ratings justifying preempting the normal schedule.

*CBS *won the night even though the only half hour their shows were #1 in the demo was 9:30. In the 50+ crowd they weren't #1 at 8 pm half hour and 9 pm half hour.

*ABC* got a ratings boost for the night running the animated special "Toy Story of Terror". However, other than gaining some bragging rights what can be seen is that there were just more live viewers than normal at 8 pm, viewers that won't be back next week. It most certainly did not result in more viewers for "Back in the Game" at 8:30 and it might have lost regular viewers for "The Middle."

*NBC* did better than The CW with expensive programming. :nono2:

*The CW*. Oddly enough "Arrow" drew more viewers this week than the season premier did last week. I don't know whether it was just a minor blip in the stats or the result of ABC and Fox playing _Where's Waldo_ with the schedule, but "Arrow" gained about 200,000 more demo viewers. That did not carry over to "The Tomorrow People" which scored the same as last week in the demo.


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## renbutler (Oct 17, 2008)

phrelin said:


> *Fox*. Last week "X-Factor" gave Fox the #3 position. This week "X-Factor" fans in my DMA tuned into garbage - the game was over, there was no "X-Factor". So reading between the lines my guess is that they checked out the competition on ABC and CBS and maybe some will like what the saw. Fox suits will be blaming "X-Factor" for losing viewers. Actually, greed on the part of Fox suits blinds them to the damage created by playing _Where's Waldo_ with their scheduling. People who view "live" expect dependability. It isn't like running the baseball playoffs gets great ratings justifying preempting the normal schedule.


Get used to it. FOX just extended its baseball contract through 2021.

http://static.foxsports.com/content/fscom/binary/2012/10/02/FOX_MLB_Agreement1349194799783.pdf

I'm still not sure what you want them to do. They have 52 weeks to fill, and they can't necessarily show new scripted and reality programs every single week. Live sports is better than reruns.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

I wouldn't be surprised if we see the playoffs other than the World Series on FOX sports 1 soon.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

renbutler said:


> Get used to it. FOX just extended its baseball contract through 2021.
> 
> http://static.foxsports.com/content/fscom/binary/2012/10/02/FOX_MLB_Agreement1349194799783.pdf
> 
> I'm still not sure what you want them to do. They have 52 weeks to fill, and they can't necessarily show new scripted and reality programs every single week. Live sports is better than reruns.


Yes and no. If you're making all your programming decisions for your network based on live+same_day 18-49 demo ratings, you are putting you're programming production companies at the mercy of people who plop down on the proverbial couch on Wednesday, switch on the TV to watch a program they expect to watch _*now*_ not Saturday on their DVR. When the show is not there, they will either take a look at something else and maybe decide they like it instead of the unreliably scheduled program they had been watching or quit plopping down on the couch on Wednesday. Now that's ok if Fox suits will not cancel the unreliably scheduled expensive show that generally gets a 0.4/1.0 - 2.89. But look around these threads and see how many of us are decades-long into despair over what we call great programming on Fox that they played _Where's Waldo_ with then seemed astonished that the live+same_day 18-49 demo ratings collapsed.

Regarding reruns, look at CBS show summer reruns and syndicated cable channel ratings. Here's my prejudice showing, but I think that a significant number of live+same_day 18-49 demo viewers appear to be technologically challenged couch potatoes. I think that a significant number of Fox's great scifi show 18-49 demo viewers use DVR's and on-demand mobile technology. When

your actual viewers don't match the viewers you count to decide what shows to renew AND
you do everything you can with your programs to discourage the viewers you count THEN
you are among the worst media executives.
I don't care if they run sports 24/7. But advertisers have surely figured out by now that the only advance commitment one should make to any Fox show is for things like baseball playoffs. And for programming production companies here's a warning: Fox will play _Where's Waldo_ with your show discouraging the only viewers Fox is willing to count. Fox might give you an extra season on Friday as a consolation prize. Take a hard look at cable channels including FX owned by the same company.



inkahauts said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if we see the playoffs other than the World Series on FOX sports 1 soon.


From a financial standpoint that makes sense. TBS makes it work.

West Coast baseball fans knew that last night there was a playoff game on Fox beginning at 3:30 pm but the couch potatoes I'm talking about who were intending to watch "Glee" were confronted with syndicated reruns or local programing. "Glee" will not be there again next week because of Game 2 of the World Series. My guess is I will never post again what I posted Thursday last week:



> *Fox* claimed #2 in the demo 8-10 pm race with "X-Factor" and with "Gee" edging out "Grey's Anatomy".


West Coast baseball fans know that tonight there will be a playoff game on TBS at 5:30 pm - they don't mind having to look around. And there will be no discouraged Fox-viewing couch potatoes.

Yes, Fox will make money not because of the playoffs but because of the World Series. Sometimes the World Series makes a lot of money, sometimes not so much. But the playoffs are what a store would call a "loss leader." The difference is the store doesn't empty its shelves of all other products customers expect to buy when they drive into the parking lot.


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## renbutler (Oct 17, 2008)

phrelin said:


> Yes and no. If you're making all your programming decisions for your network based on live+same_day 18-49 demo ratings, you are putting you're programming production companies at the mercy of people who plop down on the proverbial couch on Wednesday, switch on the TV to watch a program they expect to watch _*now*_ not Saturday on their DVR. When the show is not there, they will either take a look at something else and maybe decide they like it instead of the unreliably scheduled program they had been watching or quit plopping down on the couch on Wednesday. Now that's ok if Fox suits will not cancel the unreliably scheduled expensive show that generally gets a 0.4/1.0 - 2.89. But look around these threads and see how many of us are decades-long into despair over what we call great programming on Fox that they played _Where's Waldo_ with then seemed astonished that the live+same_day 18-49 demo ratings collapsed.


But it's only a few days in October!

I really doubt that people are unable to find the shows they want to watch, when they want to watch them. Nobody expects the same show to be in the same time slot (first run or repeats) 52 weeks a year.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

renbutler said:


> But it's only a few days in October!
> 
> I really doubt that people are unable to find the shows they want to watch, when they want to watch them. Nobody expects the same show to be in the same time slot (first run or repeats) 52 weeks a year.


You are far more optimistic than I am about the attention span of the those who are still viewing live.

Here's Thursday's final ratings with baseball timezone issues adjusted:

​​






*CBS* continues to win in the 50+ viewer segment and "Big Bang Theory" still gives them bragging rights to the demo for the night.

*Fox* actually won the bragging rights to #2 for the night.

*ABC* has given Fox those bragging rights because "Once Upon a Time in Wonderland" left the Disney fairy tale folks behind The CW at 8 pm in the demo.

*NBC* yesterday canceled "Welcome to the Family" which left them also behind The CW in the demo and the 50+ crowd in the 8:30 half hour.

*The CW*'s "Vampire Diaries" came in #3 in the demo last night! That didn't help "Reign."

Here's Friday:

​​






*CBS* won the night by virtue of its 50+ viewership. But it only won the demo in the first two half hours.

*ABC*'s "Shark Tank" won the demo in its hour.

*NBC*'s "Dateline" won the demo in its hour.

*Fox* "Junior Masterchef" ran #2 in the demo in the 8:30 half hour.

*The CW* ran some shows. :sure:


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

renbutler said:


> But it's only a few days in October!
> 
> I really doubt that people are unable to find the shows they want to watch, when they want to watch them. Nobody expects the same show to be in the same time slot (first run or repeats) 52 weeks a year.


*au contraire, *
I have DVRs......... 6 tuners in the House and I still prefer consistent scheduling. Some shows are set to record New Only, others are on the bubble and I decide to record and watch them on a week to week basis.

FWIW I find myself just as likely to watch Ghost Mine and Haven ahead of many other shows. I watched the Closer and now its sequel and Psych when they are on. The Networks are slowly loosing me as a viewer. That is Due to So called reality Shows and other tripe. I still watch their scripted shows.

TBoneit


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

au contraire, 
I have DVRs......... 6 tuners in the House and I still prefer consistent scheduling. Some shows are set to record New Only, others are on the bubble and I decide to record and watch them on a week to week basis.

FWIW I find myself just as likely to watch Ghost Mine and Haven ahead of many other shows. I watched the Closer and now its sequel and Psych when they are on. The Networks are slowly loosing me as a viewer. That is Due to So called reality Shows and other tripe. I still watch their scripted shows.

TBoneit


I don't get it, if you record all your shows and have six tuners why would you ever need to have the show on at the same time? Set all channel CBS and NBC on one DVR, all FOX and ABC on another, all The CW on the third and spread the cable shows (by channels) out amoung them all evenly and your all set. No need to every worry about conflicts and always know easily where to set any recordings for any one given channel.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Here are the Sunday final ratings:

​​






There really isn't much I can say about these. NBC's Sunday night NFL game overwhelms the rating system. CBS shows, particularly "The Mentalist" took a hit because in the Eastern time zone there was a football overrun on CBS resulting in a delayed start time for the schedule. And for whatever reason, ABC thinks nighttime soaps are the best they can do against the others.

Here's Monday:

​​






*NBC*. Monday is the one night the programming folks at NBC can claim as a true winner.

*CBS*. Monday is the one night the programming folks at CBS have had to struggle. I "adjusting" the comedy schedule they managed to take #2 in the demo in the first four half hours. Now they have to find a show for 10 pm that can compete.

*ABC*'s "Dancing with the Stars" has been a traditional winner in the 50+ crowd and was so last night. It appears to have given "Castle" that win also.

*Fox* for whatever reason ran a rerun of "Sleepy Hollow" but they still beat The CW for whatever that is worth.

*The CW* Monday night shows are up against stiff competition for their target demo. "The Voice" is very competitive in that age group and there one of the stars on "DWTS" is from ABC Family's "Pretty Little Liars" which appeals to the same demo. Nonetheless, it is worth noting that both "Hart of Dixie" and "Beauty and the Beast" were up from last week.


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

inkahauts said:


> I don't get it, if you record all your shows and have six tuners why would you ever need to have the show on at the same time? Set all channel CBS and NBC on one DVR, all FOX and ABC on another, all The CW on the third and spread the cable shows (by channels) out among them all evenly and your all set. No need to every worry about conflicts and always know easily where to set any recordings for any one given channel.


I just prefer to have as much as possible on the DVR hooked up to the Largest HDTV, SD shows are for watching on the Sony SDTV, That DVR also feeds a 27" HDTV via a 30 foot HDMI cable. I Leave the Third DVR for my Brother to use on the 32" HDTV.

Despite having search and such I prefer in many cases to schedule probably 50% +/- of my watching on one time timers. Having a consistent time and day helps with that.

Sometimes I look at a show that I recorded with one time timers and set a New shows only, Other times such as with Sleepy Hollow I stop recording it.

It is a preference thing, what can I say.

TBoneit


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Here's Tuesday:

​​






*CBS*. Again, coming into this 2013 Fall Season, Tuesday was the Eye Network's to lose. As usual, CBS won the 50+ in every half hour but came in #2 in the 18-49 demo in the 9:00 and 9:30 half hours.

*NBC* has done well with "The Voice" which as a lead-in has given "Chicago Fire" a boost. But unless the final ratings change something, "Chicago Fire" came in #2 in the demo for the first time since the season started.

*ABC*. "Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D." has been bleeding viewers every week since the premier. Last night's demo was 57% of the premier's ratings and 62% of the 50+ premier ratings. In contrast "NCIS" on CBS was at 88% of it's season opener demo and 97% of the 50+ crowd rating. ABC's 9:00 hour comedy lineup has dismal ratings. And, of course, they already canceled their 10 pm show.

*Fox*. The average ratings for the Fox comedy lineup last night was 1.5/4 - 3.50. I'm not sure you can make money on four sitcoms with that average, but who knows? Perhaps if they start selling music and T-shirts they can make these pay.

*The CW*. By the apparent standards of The CW, "The Originals" and "Supernatural" are doing ok. And, you can buy T-shirts...








...and other items here. :sure:​


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Here's Wednesday, a milestone night with the 100th episode of "The Middle" and the 300th episode of "CSI":

​​






*Fox* had game 1 of this year's World Series which distorts the ratings. On the West Coast it began at 4:30 pm and had virtually no impact on prime time. This means that we could watch the game live and then watch our favorite prime time TV shows live, unless our favorite Wednesday prime time TV was "X-Factor." However, East Coast live viewers did not have that option.

*ABC*'s "Modern Family" generally gives the Disney-owned network a demo win in the 8-10pm contest on Wednesday evening but last night's ratings distortion seems to have slipped them behind CBS as well as behind the World Series on Fox.

*CBS*. Against the World Series the Eye Network's lineup retained its viewers.

*NBC* continues to see a dismal Wednesday offering up the last episode of "Ironside" at 10 pm.

*The CW* shows might have been affected by the World Series or not. :sure:


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Here's Thursday:

​​






*Fox* had the World Series which as noted yesterday distorts these ratings.

*CBS* continues to appear to be winning the demo, but actually it's because "Big Bang Theory" does so well that it ran #1 in its half hour last night despite the World Series.

*ABC* ran #2 in the four half hours beginning at 9 pm.

*NBC* Thursday shows don't do very well particularly since they ran a rerun of "The Voice."

*The CW* also ran some shows and offers music and trinkets such as mouse pads here:


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Here's Friday:

​​






*NBC* premiered its regular Fall Season Friday lineup last night which gave them pretty good ratings ... for a Friday. "Grimm" came in #2 in the demo behind "Shark Tank" but "Dracula" was #1 in the demo. On the equivalent week last year a non-premier of "Grimm" scored a 1.9/6 - 6.00 compared to this year's 1.8/6 - 6.13, so it appears NBC's continued support of this show seems justified.

*CBS* won the age 50+ crowd in all six half hours as usual and "Blue Bloods" actually landed 50+ viewers that had been going to NBC's two hour "Datelines" in previous weeks which raises some questions about the long-term efficacy of "Dracula" as demo viewers aren't a very reliable Friday audience.

*ABC*'s lineup which included reruns of its 8 pm comedy lineup came in #3 but "Shark Tank" did win the demo at 9 pm and was #2 among the 50+ viewers.

*Fox*'s "Junior Masterchef" tied for #1 in the demo in the 8 pm half hour but was #2 in the 8:30 half hour. They reran two episodes of "The Simpsons" in the 9 pm hour just because.

*The CW* premiered "The Carrie Diaries" to low ratings and the "iHeartRadio: Katy Perry" special at 9 pm did very poorly.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Here's Sunday for what it's worth:

​






I'm not sure one can draw any conclusions from these ratings except NFL Football and the World Series draw a large audience. Even CBS had a NFL football overrun in parts of the country. But the ratings above pretend that the NBC NFL and the Fox World Series games ran in prime time and the CBS lineup ran as scheduled across the country. In fact, here on the West Coast many who watched one of the games not in prime time watched ABC and CBS shows as scheduled in prime time.

Here's Monday:

​​






*Fox* had a World Series game last night which meant that on the West Coast you could watch the game and then watch some regularly scheduled prime time TV while on the East Coast if you watched the game you did so in prime time. This, of course, should skew the ratings. But I've included last week in the averages and surprisingly it had little impact on regularly scheduled shows.

*NBC *continues to dominate Monday nights in the demo beating the World Series on Fox except at 10 pm.

*ABC* continues to dominate Monday nights in the 50+ group beating the World Series on Fox except at 10 pm.

*CBS* is going to have to rethink Monday.

*The CW* offers shows and sells stuff.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Running a bit behind but that's another story for another thread. Here's Tuesday:

​​







*Fox*. What's interesting about Tuesday is Fox's use of "The X Factor" to replace two hours of sitcoms. It's interesting because basically it did nearly as poorly as the four sitcoms have this fall.

*ABC *decided to offer a rerun of "Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D." thus combining it with the rest of their offering to allow them to beat The CW lineup, barely.

*CBS*. It was Tuesday and as usual the Eye Network walked away with the 50+ crowd and bragging rights to total viewers.

*NBC* extended "The Voice" to give it a solid demo win from 9 to 11 pm.

*The CW* hopefully sold some music and trinkets from the airing of their Tuesday lineup.

Here's Wednesday with the last 2013 World Series game:

​​






*Fox* did well with last night's game, but as usual it wasn't shown in prime time on the West Coast so it simply skews the ratings.

*CBS*. Ignoring the game's ratings, CBS won the night.

*ABC* ran behind CBS.

*NBC* reran a two hour "L&O: SVU" from 9 to 11 pm, which along with "Revolution" in the first hour allowed them to handily beat The CW lineup.

*The CW* shows did not do so well last night.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Here's Thursday:

​​






*CBS*. The suits at the Eye Network must have a soft spot in their hearts for Charlie Brown as they let ABC"s "It's the Great Pumpkin, Charlie Brown" go up against a rerun of "The Big Bang Theory." That rerun choice had a significant impact on the demo ratings of "The Millers" and "The Crazy Ones." They also ran another rerun of "TBBT" at 9:30 instead of "Two and a Half Men" and it pulled lower demo ratings. "Elementary" still runs behind ABC's "Scandal" in the demo. In terms of the 50+ crowd, CBS continues its domination.

*ABC* as noted above had a good night in the demo last night.

*The CW* tied Fox in the demo last night in three of four half hours.That doesn't mean that "The Vampire Diaries" or "Reign" did particularly well as....

*Fox*, having to figure out something to schedule in case the World Series didn't run to seven games, ran a clips show of "The X-Factor" and a rerun of "Glee". Four weeks ago when they last ran a regular schedule, Fox ran #2 in the demo in the 8-10 race. It will be interesting to see if they can regain that position next week when CBS and ABC run their regular lineup and NBC runs "The Voice" live eliminations at 8 pm.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Here's Friday:

​​






*CBS* continues to dominate the 50+ crowd of live+same day viewers winning all six half hours.

*ABC* won the 18-49 demo race scoring #1 in 5 of the 6 half hours. "The Neighbors" is in trouble.

*NBC* didn't read the memo from their sister cable channel Syfy - SciFriday didn't work after we entered the 21st Century. Nonetheless, "Grimm" is doing ok ranking #2 in the demo during its half hours.

*Fox*. Next week is the end of this Friday lineup.

*The CW*. Oh well, you can buy the following songs from this weeks "Carrie Diaries" at the show's website:

*Song Title* - *Album* - *Artist*
Suddenly Last Summer - Essential Collection - The Motels
Cities in Dust - Tinderbox - Siouxsie and the Banshees
Missing You - No Brakes - John Waite
What is Love - Human's Lib - Howard Jones
Cruel Summer - Rhino Hi-Five: Bananarama - Bananarama
Never Surrender - Corey Hart: The Singles - Corey Hart
Heaven - So Far So Good - Bryan Adams


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

It is starting, "it" being the _de facto_ trivialization of broadcast TV ratings. According to the folks over at_ Deadline Hollywood_:



> Broadcast network Premiere Week numbers for 30-day multi-platform playback on DVR, VOD, online, etc. are out, confirming that overnight Nielsen ratings are now very preliminary reads and the broadcast networks got off to a much better start this season than originally reported. CBS weighed in this morning, reporting that the overall audience for the premiere episode of new Monday drama Hostages - initially reported at a disappointing 7.41 million viewers, based on Nielsen fast nationals issued the next morning - now stands 15.54 million strong. That's a jump of 110% with the 30-day multi-platform playback factored in. Similarly, the opening audience for Chuck Lorre's new CBS comedy Mom jumped 72%, from 7.99 million viewers, to 13.77 million. And the crowd for the opening night of David E. Kelley's new Robin Williams comedy The Crazy Ones now stands at nearly 24 million viewers, after growing 52% over the 30 days.
> 
> Fox, which launched new series before Premiere Week, had already reported 30-day multi-platform total audiences for the majority of its premieres delivered lifts of 80% to 108% versus the series' same-day deliveries. Fox's premiere of Sleepy Hollow on September 16 soared 108% to 26.4 million viewers across Live, DVR, VOD and streaming on Hulu.com and Fox.com. Brooklyn Nine-Nine climbed 97% to 14.6 million viewers across platforms. Returning New Girl and The Mindy Project snagged lifts of 80%. Fox also noted a 76% increase in viewing of its in-season shows on Hulu than at same point last season (34.3 mil views vs. 19.5 mil).
> 
> ....You've probably seen the news reports about the jump in time-delayed viewing this season, as late-adopters (older viewers) are joining the trend - older viewers being a key component of CBS' "We are broadcasters" message. "This season we already are seeing a substantially greater use of time-shifting by viewers to expand their viewing horizons, leading to larger overall audiences for the most popular programs, including both the established hits and the hot newcomers," CBS Chief Research Officer David Poltrack said in this morning's news.


In other words, even CBS acknowledges that the value of TV shows they broadcast through local broadcast affiliates cannot continue to be determined by the viewing habits of the relatively small number of "Live+Same Day" viewers. The times they are a changing.


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## Supramom2000 (Jun 21, 2007)

But the problem remains that advertising dollars are needed to even continue airing the programs. If they adopt the 30 day viewing model, then obviously they realize that people are recording their TV and watching later. That means NO ONE is watching commercials!!

How do they reconcile that?


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Scary as it is many people still watch the commercials even if they DVR something. 

And 30 days isn't a problem for a lot if advertisers. That's only an issue if it's truly time sensitive, like a sale of some sort. Not a car branding commercial.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

I'm finding that I often just let the show run these days and either catch up on Internet happenings during commercials or go with the standard bio break. Granted it's not all the time, but a much bigger chunk of time than I used to. Doesn't mean I'm paying direct attention to the commercials, but subliminally, it's there.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

I record a lot and still see commercials for a couple reasons ... 1 being what Doug mentioned. The other isn't really normal: When watching TV in bed, I can't control anything (disability), so someone will start playback for me.


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## seern (Jan 13, 2007)

I primarily record the shows to skip the commercials and will sometimes wait weeks before I watch the shows. I currently have Elementary and Person of Interest both on the DVR and have not watched a single episode yet. With them I will spend an entire evening watching 4 or 5 episodes back to back. It is this kind of viewing habit that renders the ratings not as relevant as they once were.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Supramom2000 said:


> But the problem remains that advertising dollars are needed to even continue airing the programs. If they adopt the 30 day viewing model, then obviously they realize that people are recording their TV and watching later. That means NO ONE is watching commercials!!
> 
> How do they reconcile that?


The key is in the language "numbers for 30-day multi-platform playback on DVR, VOD, online, etc."

It is true that DVR playback means commercial skipping, but as others have commented not everyone skips every commercial. In fact, in our household we tend to stop to watch certain types of commercials if we catch a glimpse - mostly animals (yeah, were among those people who particularly like to watch anthropomorphic animals).

But the numbers of viewers of VOD and online content are multiplying. What I've learned with online viewing is that I can't avoid ads. CBS hasn't been as free to give away online viewing as the original participants in HULU.

I can't really prove it, but it seems CBS CEO Les Moonves has been studying how to effectively monetize content instead of worrying about looking like a cool, tech savvy old guy. He is clearly irked by Charlie Ergen and Dish's Hopper with auto ad skip. I assume he's noticing that Showtime Anytime (CBS owns Showtime) allows subscribers flexible access. But what does one do in the Broadcast TV environment? That's a tough one. As time goes by broadcast affiliates are becoming an economic liability. Most viewers get their signal the late-20th Century way, via cable or satellite. The national networks might as well be cable channels.

It will be interesting to see how it all falls out.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

As noted in the thread The Mentalist shows rerun, NFL football screws up the schedule. Therefore it screws up the Nielsen Broadcast TV ratings system on Sunday. That's why I have been waiting in this thread to post Sunday until I have the final corrected ratings for Sundays which aren't available until Tuesday.

Also, in years past I have started a new thread for the Nielsen "sweeps" period because we ratings watchers continued to pretend that the sweeps period mattered. In fact, the Nielsen designated sweeps period doesn't matter any more. Weak new shows aren't even given the exposure of sweeps before being canceled. In the first weeks of the Fall schedule particularly, but also the Winter schedule, shows are regularly preempted for sports overuns and awards shows. Reality shows, particularly reality competition shows, get extra runs during the week preempting weaker shows.

So I'm not going to start a new thread for Fall Sweeps which started last Thursday. Instead, I'm trying to keep running averages in millions of viewers (total, 18-49 demo viewers, age 50+ viewers) for the entire Fall Season.

_*Today I'm offering the following Fall 2013 pre-sweeps total "live+same day" viewer information...*_







​_*...to compare with the live ratings in 1960-61...*_​​






I do not assign a ranking number to "NBC Sunday Night Football" as it is not network controlled content. Short of the network people keeping their cameras on the sky at all times, people will watch NFL football because the NFL content is popular. However, it is worth noting that even "NBC Sunday Night Football" cannot get 2/3rds of the 9.78% share of the American population that watched "Gunsmoke" in 1960-61. And only 11 of the 2013 Fall shows got the raw number viewership of show #30 in 1960-61.

Of the top 35 shows this fall so far (ignoring "NBC Sunday Night Football"), 16 are on CBS compared to 17 in 1960-61, 9 are on ABC compared to 8 in 1960-61, 7 are on NBC (separately counting the two scheduled nights of "The Voice") compared to 5 in 1960-61, and 4 are on Fox (separately counting the two scheduled nights of "X-Factor" and Fox didn't exist in 1960-61). On CBS "NCIS" averaged 18.8 million viewers this fall compared to "Gunsmoke" with 17.6 million in 1960-61. On ABC "Dancing with the Stars" averaged 13.6 million viewers this fall compared to "The Real McCoys" with 13.1 million in 1960-61. On NBC "The Voice - Monday" averaged 12.5 million viewers this fall compared to "Wagon Train" with 16.1 million in 1960-61.

A couple of obvious facts. These numbers represent people viewing the shows in the evening they are aired. There was no "30-day multi-platform playback on DVR, VOD, online, etc." to talk about. Approximate 10% of the households watched "Gunsmoke" in 1960-61. Today, only a bit more half that share of households may watch a really popular show live on the night it airs. But "NCIS" likely matches that when considering "30-day multi-platform playback on DVR, VOD, online, etc."

And still shows get canceled these days before the "30-day multi-platform playback on DVR, VOD, online, etc." information is available. That's because those who control advertising are Americans. and we Americans have a very short attention span these days. After all, a company's value is determined not by what they are doing to prepare for next year, but what they earned yesterday. As others have noted "M*A*S*H" was ranked #47 in its first season and by today's standards would have been dropped at episode 3. And yet it's February 28, 1983, finale, "Goodbye, Farewell and Amen", becoming the most watched television episode in U.S. television history at the time, with a record-breaking 125 million viewers. I wonder how many 21st Century canceled shows could have become among "America's most beloved TV shows" if they had been given two full seasons to develop?

And that's the way it is....


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Running a little behind here. Here's Sunday:

​​






Not much to say here since CBS had a football overrun that shifted their entire schedule in the East but in the West we watched "The Good Wife" and the rest all at the scheduled time.

Here's Monday:

​​






We're pretty much back to normal Monday's now that "Mike & Molly" have returned on CBS. Not much to say.

Here's Tuesday:

​​






Again, not too much to comment on. NBC has preempted "Chicago Fire" at 10 pm with a second hour of "The Voice" two weeks in a row. I realize "The Voice" does better in the ratings than "Chicago Fire" but it was winning the demo in that time slot. I hope in their greed they haven't lost demo viewers to other activities as I like that show and they have exactly one other winning scripted show in their entire lineup.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Here's Wednesday:

​​






*ABC* won the night with "The CMA Awards."

*CBS* came in #2, down 4.6% in the demo and 4.7% in the 50+ crowd over October 9 which was the last Wednesday without a baseball playoff, World Series game, or "The CMA Awards." Actually, that is pretty remarkable.

*Fox*. I'm sure feeling financially flush after the baseball playoff-World Series, the suits at Fox may have discovered they flushed "The X-Factor" audience. Last night's 1.5/4 - 4.51 has to be compared to the October 9th 2.2/6 - 7.14. That's a 32% drop in the demo and a 37% drop in total viewers. Basically, the show went from comfortable to "consider-for-cancellation" ratings. I'd hate to be the guy responsible for regular programming at Fox. The only comment you could make is "You can't play _Where's Waldo_ with the schedule and expect to do much better than The CW."

*NBC* programmers (excluding NBC Sports and NBC News) this Fall have two shows with good ratings - "The Voice" and "The Blacklist." Since neither appears on Wednesday's schedule, one can only say they are doing better than The CW.

*The CW*. There isn't much one can say about the ratings of shows on The CW. If you're into posters of "ripped" guys which I assume the target audience of the female 18- to 34-year-old demographic, you should see The CW Releases Posters of the Men of 'Arrow' Sans Shirts :sure: You also might find this from an _LA Times_ article last March interesting:



> Is the audience for the CW, a network known for shows about teenage vampires and trendy high school students, getting a little long in the tooth?
> 
> This season, the median age of its audience is nearly 42.
> 
> That looks like trouble. The female-friendly, 7-year-old network targets the 18- to 34-year-old demographic. But CW's executives aren't running away from middle age. They are trying to attract a more diverse audience.


I don't know whether they're getting a more diverse audience this year, but they still aren't getting a competitive live+same day viewing audience. It's worth noting that "Beauty And The Beast" got a 100% gain in their 18-49 0.3 rating last week. "Hart Of Dixie" got a 75% gain (from 0.4 to 0.7), "Vampire Diaries" got a 62% gain (from 1.3 to 2.1) and "Originals" got a 55% gain (from 1.1 to 1.7). My guess is they made similar or larger gains from streaming.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Here's Thursday:

​​






*CBS*, the reliable and steady broadcast network, continues to control the live+same day age 50+ viewers. Last night they offered up "The Big Bang Theory" with Bob Newhart (age 84) as the guest star and "Two and a Half Men" with Lynda Carter (age 62) as the guest star.

*Fox*, being the opportunistic and unreliable _Where's Waldo_ broadcast network, tied The CW in the 8 pm hour. To put it in perspective "The X-Factor" garnered a 2.0/6 - 6.49 on October 10 and last night, after the Fox Sports baseball earnings were counted by the financial analysts at News Corp, the show's rating was 1.2/4 - 3.64. At its October 10 outing "Glee" scored 2.9/8 - 7.39 while last night it pulled 1.5/4 - 4.00. I will continue to say it, you can't do what Fox is doing and sell a reliable audience to advertisers. Sure you can have an occasional special and maybe even the World Series. But you can't keep live+same day demo viewers interest in a show and preempt that show several weeks in a row. That is why News Corp became the advocate for the broadcast network plan to tax every viewer a lot of money in retrans fees. They don't have to worry about being opportunistic and unreliable.

*ABC* was the demo winner in the 9 and 10 pm hours.

*NBC* suits seems to be over-using "The Voice" to grab ratings instead of dealing with their schedule. They need to dump their Thursday comedy lineup by January when the Winter 2014 Season starts up.

*The CW*'s "Vampire Diaries" did well last night and you can buy the Vampire Diaries 2014 Calendar here. :righton:


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## yosoyellobo (Nov 1, 2006)

Lynda Carter still looks good and Newhart funny as ever.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Here's Friday:

​​






*CBS* continues to get the older crowd and won the younger crowd in the 8 pm hour and the 10:30 pm half hour.

*ABC* won the 18-49 demo from 9 to 10:30.

*NBC*. "Grimm" and "Dracula" continue to prove NBCU sister cable channel Syfy right - there's nobody home to watch science fiction and fantasy on a Friday night. So much for scifriday

*Fox* intends to bury "Bones" and "Raising Hope" on Fridays beginning next week. Or maybe there's a bunch of folks age 18-49 just itching to have something to watch on Friday from 8-10 pm instead of doing their holiday shopping. :sure:

*The CW* continues to air shows.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Here is Sunday's ratings:

​​






*NBC*, well not really NBC but rather the NFL, continues to win Fall Sunday nights. NBC does make a profit on it, but I would guess a relatively small profit compared to what goes to the NFL. Of course, it is more than NBC will make on programming after the end of the NFL season.

*CBS* had another NFL game overrun in the East/Central time zones - 46 minutes - which pushed "The Mentalist" essentially after 11 pm. Effectively they've damaged "The Mentalist" when they put it on Sunday last year. Two years ago on a Thursday night it pulled 2.5/7 - 12.09 compared to this year's 1.3/4 - 7.74. Bill Gorman's renew/cancel index had this headline CBS: 'The Mentalist' Is Likely To Be Canceled and given this season's emphasis on the primary story arc I think producers are fearful. Ordinarily I'd say probable syndication revenues would mean another season, but no CBS division is among the production companies.

*ABC*. "Betrayal" was DOA. Things are not looking good for "Revenge." Since "Once Upon A Time" is a Disney characters promo, it probably will get a renewal if it doesn't drop further by May.

*Fox* animated shows get a trophy for participating.

Here's Monday:

​​






*NBC* continues it's demo domination of Mondays with "The Voice" as the foundation and "The Blacklist" still holding a sizable chunk of the lead-in.

*ABC* continues to win among the 50+ crowd in all six half hours.

*CBS* propped up its comedy relay team and has recovered a bit but....

*Fox* continues to challenge CBS, particularly with "Sleepy Hollow." Next week they'll be moving "Almost Human" into the 8 pm slot, but wanted, in typical Fox fashion, to assure the show will start in a hole by running the pilot on Sunday against the Kansas City Chiefs at Denver Broncos. Since the Fox suits dithered about scheduling the show's premier we know their collective wisdom guarantees it will struggle to gain its footings. Of course they are putting "Bones" in the hospice (meaning Friday).

*The CW*'s "Hart of Dixie" continues to have strong music sales because of the great music on the show. Here's last night's lineup and soon you will be able to buy them through the show's website. Live+same day ratings? Oh well....


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Here's Tuesday:

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*CBS*, as usual on Tuesdays, won all six half hours in Total Viewers mostly from the 50+ crowd as it won the demo only in the 8:00 and 8:30 half hours.

*NBC* won the demo from 9-11, with the return of "Chicago Fire" doing well.

*ABC* should have had another drama to put in the 10 pm slot. At 8 pm "Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D." continues to drop in the ratings. And the two comedies in the 9 pm hour are not scoring in what would traditionally be considered the renewal range despite the fact that ABC has ordered full seasons of both.

*Fox*'s Tuesday comedy line also did not score in what would traditionally be considered the renewal range even though "Brooklyn 99" has been picked up for a full season and has been given the coveted post-Super Bowl slot.

*The CW* shows did well for being The CW shows.

The sitcom situation is a puzzle. Over on CBS last Thursday "The Big Bang Theory" scored 4.8/15 -16.59 followed by "The Millers" with 2.7/8 - 10.68, "The Crazy Ones" with 2.1/6- 8.07 and "Two and a Half Men" with 2.0/5 - 8.14. CBS is on edge over the Monday lineup of "How I Met Your Mother" with 3.1/9 - 8.08, "2 Broke Girls" with 2.7/7 -8.2, "Mike and Molly" with 2.2/6 - 8.56, and MOM with 1.9/5 - 6.93, Last night's highest rated comedy was "New Girl" with 1.7/5 - 3.33. Is there a different standard for Fox and ABC?


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

TomCat said:


> C'mon, Phre; you"re the heart and soul of this forum.


I appreciate the sentiment as I do enjoy posting in these TV Show Talk threads. On the other hand, this particular thread reflects the fact that I'm old as broadcast TV live+same day viewers disappear to later DVR viewing, cable channels, streaming, and other interests.

Unfortunately other demands have diverted me from this thread for almost a week. So here it goes.

Here's Wednesday:

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Not much of note. CBS and ABC continue to compete for the demo while CBS continues to be the favorite of the 50+ crowd.

Here's Thursday:

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CBS won the 50+ viewers in all six half hours, while ABC won the demo in the four half hours beginning at 9 pm. But the big news for this Thursday is that #2 in the demo during the first half hour and overall for the hour was The CW's "Vampire Diaries."

Here's Friday:

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*Fox *began its new Friday/Monday season on this Friday by moving "Bones" to Fridays. On the previous Monday the show pulled 2.0/6 - 7.36 while on Friday it scored 1.2/4 - 5.18 leaving behind 2.18 million "Bones" viewers that Fox apparently thinks it can do without. It's important to remember that they gave away 0.9 million "Bones" demo viewers and 1.3 million "Bones"50+ viewers when we talk about Monday. And this episode of "Bones" pulled fewer demo viewers than "Junior Masterchef" did in the same slot this fall.

They then brought us on Friday the season premier of "Raising Hope", down in the demo nearly 60 percent from last year's premiere and down about 40 percent from last year's finale. In the process of replacing the week rerun of "Sleepy Hollow" which represented no additional production costs, "Raising Hope" in this slot represents a huge financial loss. But hey, it's only Rupert Murdoch's money.

Here's Sunday:

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NFL Sunday. Not only did NBC do well, but Fox used a scheduled high ratings NFL game to introduce "Almost Human." The problem for Fox was that there was a significant drop in all age groups for "Almost Human" between the 8:00 pm half hour and the 8:30 half hour which didn't bode well for Monday's 8 pm time slot - where "Bones" used to be.

Now about Monday:

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*NBC* controls the demo on Monday with "The Voice" which will be there through December 16.

*ABC* controls the 50+ crowd on Monday with "Dancing with the Stars" which will end its season next week.

*CBS* reorganized its 8-10 comedy lineup to hang onto an overall #3 position, eeking out a #1 in the demo in the 8:00 and 8:30 half hours.

*Fox*'s new "Almost Human" pulled 0.3 million more demo viewers and 0.9 million fewer 50+ viewers than"Bones" garnered last Monday giving the network a net viewer loss of 0.6 million. Nice move guys. "Almost Human" was created by Joel Wyman, an executive producer on "Fringe" the final season of which Fox burned out on Friday to incredibly low ratings. I'll give them credit because I'm a scifi fan, they do keep trying scifi in prime time I guess looking for that new "X-Files." :nono2:

*The CW* Monday shows sold some more music, t-shirts and mugs. :sure:


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## Church AV Guy (Jul 9, 2007)

> I appreciate the sentiment as I do enjoy posting in these TV Show Talk threads. On the other hand, this particular thread reflects the fact that I'm old as broadcast TV live+same day viewers disappear to later DVR viewing, cable channels, streaming, and other interests.
> 
> Unfortunately other demands have diverted me from this thread for almost a week. So here it goes.


But I'm sure many here were missing the analysis. I have been wondering what was happening. Glad to see you back. I am eagerly awaiting the 11-19 ratings, to see if the ratings for SHIELD will level off, or continue its downward slide. If there was any show I expected to be the unmistakable breakout hit of the year, it would have been SHIELD. I have been very surprised by the ratings decline.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Church AV Guy said:


> But I'm sure many here were missing the analysis. I have been wondering what was happening. Glad to see you back. I am eagerly awaiting the 11-19 ratings, to see if the ratings for SHIELD will level off, or continue its downward slide. If there was any show I expected to be the unmistakable breakout hit of the year, it would have been SHIELD. I have been very surprised by the ratings decline.


Ok, here's Tuesday 11-19 and "Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D." is up from last week:

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*CBS*. Last night the producers of "NCIS" introduced us to the proposed replacement for Ziva - a female tech nerd with combat skills - as McGee gets older and less nerdy. Interesting. Anyway, the Eye network won all six half hours among the 50+ crowd but was #1 among the demo only in the first two half hours of the night.

*NBC*'s "The Voice" won the 9:00 hour among the 18-49 demo crowd. However, much to my surprise the "Chicago Fire" followers seem to have have been distracted by the squirrel over on ABC pushing the show under the magic 2.0 share in the demo for the first time this season.

*ABC* won the demo in the 10 pm hour with the "David Blaine: Real or Magic" special. What's really curious about this is that while "S.H.I.E.L.D." came up a bit from last week, "The Goldbergs" were down slightly in the demo. Most of the "Blaine" audience at 9:30 came from Fox who watched "New Girl" and instead of leaving switched channels, plus an increase in demo viewers who apparently came back from whatever to watch "Blaine."

*Fox *clearly has a problem with Tuesday's (among other days) as they can't get a demo share of 2.0 for any show. Of course, Fox was the home of the retrans fee tax on us viewers, so I guess it doesn't matter how much their viewership drops anymore since we still pay them the same even if they never offer anything worth watching.

*The CW* series of "The iHeartradio Release Album Party" specials have proven to be a ratings duds even for The CW and this one didn't help "Supernatural" in the second hour.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Here's Wednesday:

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*CBS* won the 50+ crowd in all six half hours and the demo in all but the 9 pm half hour.

*ABC *ran #2 in the 50+ crowd except during the 9:30 half hour (they've already decided to burn out the remaining order of "Super Fun Night"). They also ran #2 in the demo in all half hours except 8:30 when "Back in the Game" dipped behind "X-Factor" and at 9:00 with "Modern Family" ran #1.

*Fox*'s "X-Factor" should have an "X" in the cancel box.

*NBC*, for whatever reason, moved "Revolution" to 8 pm Wednesday so they could be sure to beat The CW. "L&O:SVU" also continues to beat The CW and runs ahead of Fox's "The X-Factor" in the 50+ crowd.

*The CW*. You can order here a nice "Arrow" phone case :sure: :


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Here's Thursday:

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*The CW*. "The Vampire Diaries" ran #3 in the demo. When a The CW show runs that well, it's news.

*CBS*. As CBS and the other nets look at the ratings for this Thursday, it has to be disturbing that from a historical viewpoint "The Big Bang Theory" is the only show that got _good_ ratings. CBS might even consider them great ratings. But no other show on any network got up to a 3.0 share in the demo which, again from a historical viewpoint, might be considered at the bottom of the tolerably decent ratings. Anyway, CBS did win the 50+ viewers in all half hours.

*ABC* needs to dump "Once Upon a Time in Wonderland" but what is this - the 4th show in that time slot they've had that couldn't find enough audience? As a comparison, the week before Thanksgiving "Last Resort" scored a whopping 1.3/4 - 5.82 compared to this year's "Once Upon A Time in Wonderland" 0.9/3 - 3.53. The year before "Charlie's Angels" last showing before Thanksgiving (two weeks before) scored 1.1/3 - 5.13. In 2010 they had pulled "My Generation" after October 1. The rest of their lineup is doing fine at #1 in the demo.

*Fox*. "X-Factor" ran #2 in its hour and "Glee" ran #3.

*NBC*'s comedy lineup lost the 8-10 pm demo rating contest, placing #5. And despite the fact it had no lead-in of any kind, "Parenthood" at 10 pm was the Peacock's highest rated show of the night by 20%+ even though it was #3. Too bad it didn't have a primetime "Leno" as a lead-in.... :nono2:

And here's Friday:

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The only thing worth noting is that The CW premiered a final season of "Nikita" to lower ratings than "America's Next Top Model" was able to garner. Oh well....


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## Supramom2000 (Jun 21, 2007)

I like Nikita. And I think it got delayed and had 0 hype. If it wasn't already on my Series Links, I would not have known it was coming.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Supramom2000 said:


> I like Nikita. And I think it got delayed and had 0 hype. If it wasn't already on my Series Links, I would not have known it was coming.


Apparently Warner Brothers Television, 50% owner of The CW and a production company for "Nikita", insisted it be given a final season over the objections of many suits at The CW. So there it is on Friday at 9 pm if you can find it. Those over at WB are probably thinking syndication and overseas revenue.

For what it's worth, here's Sunday:

​​






Between football on NBC and the American Music Awards on ABC, there isn't a lot of meaningful data to extract about the shows the depend on ratings for their future other than "The Mentalist" scored its highest ratings of the season.

Here's Monday:

​​






*CBS*. This is one of those cases where I wonder what impact local preemption of a show has on ratings. I don't know what happened elsewhere but in the Bay Area the local CBS station carried a 49ers game that essentially preempted the 8 pm lineup. What makes me wonder about the effect is that "HIMYM" had its lowest ratings in weeks, while "Mike and Molly" and "Mom" go their highest ratings. I have no way of knowing, so it's idle speculation.

*Fox*. "Almost Human" dropped 18% in the demo from last week, when it was already way down in the 50+ crowd from "Bones." Last night's 1.9/5 demo rating would clearly be a cancellation number except Fox hasn't anything good to fill with. I'm sure Fox can preempt it with something for a few weeks in order to guarantee a further loss in scripted programming for the year. It was a good move to put "Bones" on Friday as it was probably making some money and "Almost Human" at Monday at 8 pm.was a perfect choice for losing money in that time slot. Just to make things interesting, in late January Fox will be placing a remake of an Australian attorney show after "Idol" on Thursday. Even if it's good, on Thursday at 9 pm. it likely will be lost to live viewers.

Otherwise, ABC won the 50+ viewers and NBC the demo viewers as usual on Monday. And The CW probably sold some music through "Hart of Dixie."


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

You do Have to Wonder about Fox. Are the Throwing darts at a board or using a Ouija board to decide where to put programming.

As Always, Thank You for the time and effort You put into these reports.
TBoneit


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