# 4 or More Hoppers on a Single Account?



## Zulu (May 11, 2012)

Interested in how they were networked together.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I don't think they are.

With a supported Dish configuration, 2 Hoppers would be networked together, and the other 2 would be networked together and no connection between them. There might possibly be some unsupported configurations that might technically work, but if you had a problem with them I wouldn't expect Dish to help you sort things out. I have read about some people who have more than 2 Hoppers configured so they can see each other... but I've yet to see Dish officially support such a configuration.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

If I recall correctly, in the initial "three hopper" setup the additional hopper was on a separate account. Four hoppers would be like wiring two separate two hopper systems and letting them talk to each other. Not "impossible" ... but not the intended design.


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## Zulu (May 11, 2012)

Stewart Vernon said:


> I don't think they are.
> 
> With a supported Dish configuration, 2 Hoppers would be networked together, and the other 2 would be networked together and no connection between them. There might possibly be some unsupported configurations that might technically work, but if you had a problem with them I wouldn't expect Dish to help you sort things out. I have read about some people who have more than 2 Hoppers configured so they can see each other... but I've yet to see Dish officially support such a configuration.


I typically never go to DISH to "sort things out". I try to get the answers ahead of time before I ever call DISH. This is from years of experience with an RV account and finding DISH hopelessly uninformed on things RV.

Here's a diagram for 4-Hopper single network that a Satelliteguys member has actually set up. _Note: he leased 2 Hoppers from DISH and had to purchase the other 2 Hoppers. Plus, he used a DISH 1000+_: 4 Hoppers - Single Network

Here's my best guess at the "ultimate" Hopper single network using a single dish: 8 Hoppers - Single Network.

Lest you think that I plan on installing 8 Hoppers in an RV (or a house for that matter), not so. I was looking for what was _technically_ possible.

DISH "official support"?

Reminds me of the 1st Hopper network diagrams that included info on how to connect a VIP receiver to a Hopper network. Oops!

More on point . . . according to a DISH rep I talked with, she said DISH would allow you to have *7 Hoppers* (2 leased + 5 purchased). She said that right after she told me that DISH typically has a "16 receiver" limit per account. That said, I'm thinking it wouldn't take much to talk them into that 8th Hopper.

Anyway, I'm looking for actual multi-Hopper installs.

My blog: DISH TV for RVs.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I get what you're saying... in terms of support... I too try and fix things myself OR seek help here from people who know and play with their setups on a regular basis.

That said... Before the Wireless Joey, lots of folk discovered they could run a regular Joey via Wifi if they used on of those Wifi USB dongles on their Joey OR could use Ethernet as well... and it mostly worked... but sometimes it didn't... and eventually they would call Dish and be mad Dish wouldn't fix their problem in an unsupported configuration.

I just like to head off expectations in these scenarios. I gathered some of the 3+ Hopper configurations were technically possible, but what happens if you start having connection issues? Maybe your video starts to break up across the MoCA network? You do all the troubleshooting you can, then call Dish because you think you need your receiver replaced but then find Dish doesn't support your configuration and are hesitant to replace your receiver unless you disconnect everything and connect in a supported manner?

That's all I'm saying... it's like running an alternative fuel in your car, it might work... but if you have problems, the manufacturer might wash their hands of you when you call them.


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## Zulu (May 11, 2012)

Stewart Vernon said:


> II gathered some of the 3+ Hopper configurations were technically possible, but what happens if you start having connection issues?


Well, since DISH would have known what I was doing *and* would be charging me for those 3+ Hoppers, _I'd expect them to fix it._

BTW, I have 2 Hoppers, and each time one was installed, a DISH tech came out and checked my wiring and commissioned the Hopper. I figure they'd do the same if I added another 6 Hoppers. To me, that's DISH's stamp of approval -- and promise of future support.

Regardless, I think you're confusing "supported configuration" with "typical configuration".

3+ Hoppers sure ain't typical, but that doesn't mean it's not (or shouldn't be) supported.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Zulu said:


> Interested in how they were networked together.


I don't think anyone has that many Hoppers. The maximum I've seen is three.

MoCA provides for up to 16 devices so device count shouldn't be a problem. MoCA bandwidth is another issue entirely.

I suspect it would be much easier to set it up than it would be to come up with a plausible justification for doing it.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Zulu said:


> Well, since DISH would have known what I was doing *and* would be charging me for those 3+ Hoppers, _I'd expect them to fix it._
> 
> BTW, I have 2 Hoppers, and each time one was installed, a DISH tech came out and checked my wiring and commissioned the Hopper. I figure they'd do the same if I added another 6 Hoppers. To me, that's DISH's stamp of approval -- and promise of future support.
> 
> ...


Nope... Dish will let you have more than 2 Hoppers on your account if you purchase them... but they do not support all of those Hoppers being interconnected on a shared MoCA network.

Dish would support each set of 2 Hoppers connected to a dual node where each pair of Hoppers is isolated from the other. IF you use another wiring setup to interconnect more than 2 Hoppers, you can bet that Dish will not support that configuration and problems that might arise from it. There are reasons why Dish is not setting this scenario up themselves, largely because they don't want to support it.

Summary... you can have more than 2 Hoppers, and if you connect them in a supported manner then Dish will help you if you have problems... but if you choose to install/use them in a non-supported configuration, don't expect Dish to fix any problems that might arise from that non-supported configuration.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Multiple hoppers would require multiple nodes and enough DPP feeds from switches to feed them all. Watching content from one hopper on another hopper would take up MoCA or network bandwidth ... but having all eight hopper users watching content from another hopper at the same time would be as unlikely as having eight hoppers in the first place, in my opinion.

Where people are more likely to run out of resources is with multiple Joeys and not enough Hopper tuners to serve them all.

i am certainly a proponent of a two hopper setup ... a Super Joey would be a good option if one was unsure if they really needed a second Hopper because it adds capacity to the system. In my opinion multiple Joeys is a bigger problem than multiple Hoppers. The fix for needing more Hoppers is building a network of switches to feed multiple nodes. The fix for needing more capacity to serve Joeys is to add more Hoppers - which when one passes two Hoppers or a Hopper and a Super Joey gets back to cascading switches.

It would be interesting to see a verifiable report of a multiple system ... a screen shot showing the multiple devices on one system. Especially if there were seven or eight devices claimed.


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## Zulu (May 11, 2012)

James Long said:


> It would be interesting to see a verifiable report of a multiple system ... a screen shot showing the multiple devices on one system. Especially if there were seven or eight devices claimed.


Here's an equipment photo & network diagram of a Satelliteguys user's *4 Hopper* (sorry, not 8) system:


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Looks good ... the "by the book" limit for DPP44 switches would be three (without getting in to professional MDU installations with amplifiers). Which would be a physical limit of six Hoppers.

By screen shot I was referring to the Hopper display ... the place in "My Recordings" where one can select the "source of recordings" (how many Hoppers can show in that list?) or the Settings - Network - Whole Home display showing linked and unlinked devices.

Getting multiple Hoppers to "play nice" is more than getting the signals to the Hoppers.


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## Zulu (May 11, 2012)

James Long said:


> Looks good ... the "by the book" limit for DPP44 switches would be three (without getting in to professional MDU installations with amplifiers). Which would be a physical limit of six Hoppers.


Remember that the 3 DPP44 Power Inserters can be used to feed another Duo Node -- so that's 8 Hoppers.



James Long said:


> By screen shot I was referring to the Hopper display ... the place in "My Recordings" where one can select the "source of recordings" (how many Hoppers can show in that list?) or the Settings - Network - Whole Home display showing linked and unlinked devices.
> 
> Getting multiple Hoppers to "play nice" is more than getting the signals to the Hoppers.


The guy who made this 4 Hopper setup is Charles Shell. He may be a member here, but he's on Satelliteguys forum as user *charlesrshell*. You're free to ask him, but he's been talking about his system for at least a year, so I think it works fine and is configured as a Single Network.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

I am not the one making the claim of seven or eight Hoppers ...

I agree with your statement in an earlier post: "I'm looking for actual multi-Hopper installs."


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

And it's important to stress here... I'm not saying what will or will not technically work, but what Dish will support. Dish, as far as I've heard, will not set up a configuration like the one in your photos here that interconnect the two dual nodes.

Dish, for instance, does not support users having any other receiver type on the account with Hoppers except in some cases a 211 will be allowed. Technically, however, you can run other Dish receivers off those DPP44 switches and they would work fine... but Dish will not activate them so it's a moot point whether or not it technically works.

In the case of a 3 or 4 Hopper (or more) system... Dish will make you buy the other 2 Hoppers and nodes and switches and stuff, but they will activate them. They will even install them, if you pay for the work, but they would not interconnect those dual nodes for you. Now, you could do it yourself after they leave... and it might work fine and you never have a problem. If I wanted that many Hoppers, I'd probably give that configuration a whirl myself! So I'm not knocking it... it's just worth keeping the mental note that IF you ever have a signal problem, Dish is likely going to blame it on the non-supported interconnect and that will stonewall your getting some problems fixed unless you deconstruct that before you call Dish and put it back to a supported config before asking Dish for help.

Think overclocking processors on computers... the CPUs were made generally to tolerate higher than supported speeds... but the failure rate was higher than they wanted to support... so many people (myself included) would overclock our CPUs to boost performance on our PCs... but IF we burnt up a chip doing so, we were on our own and would be replacing the CPU (and sometimes motherboard) out of our own dimes!

Now... the Hopper stuff isn't, as far as I've heard, likely to cause hardware damage... but you can bet Dish would was their hands, and rightfully so, of anything that came from a non-supported config.


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## n0qcu (Mar 23, 2002)

James Long said:


> By screen shot I was referring to the Hopper display ... the place in "My Recordings" where one can select the "source of recordings" (how many Hoppers can show in that list?) or the Settings - Network - Whole Home display showing linked and unlinked devices.


here's the screen shot you requested for four hoppers.


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## Zulu (May 11, 2012)

Stewart Vernon said:


> In the case of a 3 or 4 Hopper (or more) system... Dish will make you buy the other 2 Hoppers and nodes and switches and stuff, but they will activate them. They will even install them, if you pay for the work, but they would not interconnect those dual nodes for you. Now, you could do it yourself after they leave... and it might work fine and you never have a problem. If I wanted that many Hoppers, I'd probably give that configuration a whirl myself! So I'm not knocking it... it's just worth keeping the mental note that IF you ever have a signal problem, Dish is likely going to blame it on the non-supported interconnect and that will stonewall your getting some problems fixed unless you deconstruct that before you call Dish and put it back to a supported config before asking Dish for help.


I don't think it's as clear cut with DISH in terms of support.

For example, on SOF (Some Other Forum), a person with a 3 Hopper and a 4 Hopper setup were having problems with remote control "lag" -- periodically, their remotes wouldn't respond for a time (5 - 15 seconds). I know that the 4 Hopper setup was configured as a _single network_ (connected Duo Nodes). Don't know about the 3 Hopper network.

Anyway, the 1st person noticed this lag when PTAT was on, the 4-Hopper person noticed the lag right after a software update.

So what caused it? PTAT activity? Software? MoCA overload? From what I've read about MoCA -- it's a very robust protocol. But who knows.

However, it's noteworthy that a DIRT member offered to help -- so I don't think DISH would necessarily turn its back on "unsupported" configs.

BTW, here's a screen shot from the 4 Hopper system:


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## Zulu (May 11, 2012)

n0qcu said:


> here's the screen shot you requested for four hoppers.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have some questions for you . . .

What model Hopper(s) are you using? Originals? Hoppers with Sling?
Are 2 of your Hoppers leased & the other 2 purchased?
Who wired your system?
Are they connected like what's shown in this diagram: 4 Hoppers - Single Network?
Any issues? Remote Control lag? Pixelation? Other?
Tx!


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Zulu said:


> However, it's noteworthy that a DIRT member offered to help -- so I don't think DISH would necessarily turn its back on "unsupported" configs.


I do not believe that Stewart was suggesting that DISH would drop all support for a multiple Hopper system. Only that any problems that were related to having more than the usual number of Hoppers would not be addressed. The concept of "if it works, it works" without spending a lot of time developing ways of connecting more than a "normal" number of Hoppers.

When there is a feature in the receiver software there is usually a reason for it. The initial release did not have the ability for one Hopper to see another Hopper's programs. Selling two Hopper systems gave DISH a reason to allow Hoppers and Joeys to easily select content on either Hopper (in a two Hopper system). And it works on more than two Hoppers.

With any undocumented feature "it works" does not mean it will keep working. Unless there is a reason for DISH to keep the feature.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I gather from reading the forums that remote lag is a known issue, especially with the original Hopper... the newer Hopper w/Sling has a faster processor and I don't know if it still has the remote lag problems. Any number of things can cause remote lag, including of course a bad remote or low batteries... but I gather there have been remote issues that sometimes a reboot fixes.

And James is correct, I'm not saying Dish will wash their hands of you entirely... I'm just saying any problem that reveals the unsupported interconnect will likely be one they start washing their hands of fixing.

Remote problems? They'll help with that... but if you're having issues viewing content from one Hopper to another... that's the kind of thing that's going to expose that you've somehow got an unsupported configuration that has 4 Hoppers seeing each other at the same time... at which point I expect Dish Support to say "That's not supported, no wonder you have problems." And then their suggested fix will be for you to disconnect that interconnect and have each pair of Hoppers (node) isolated from the other.

There is any number of reasons why Dish has decided not to support these configurations even if they appear to technically work. It's like I said about using original Joeys over Wifi or Ethernet... That works too, but Dish isn't going to help you make it work and if you have problems, Dish isn't going to help you fix those unless you connect those Joeys via the supported method. Same thing for the 3+ Hoppers. Dish doesn't support or intend for more than 2 Hoppers (or 1 Hopper + 1 Super Joey) to be able to see each other over MoCA... so you aren't going to get them to help you troubleshoot any problems that stem from that.


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## Zulu (May 11, 2012)

Stewart Vernon said:


> Dish doesn't support or intend for more than 2 Hoppers (or 1 Hopper + 1 Super Joey) to be able to see each other over MoCA...


How do you know this?


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Because Dish has said it. All the documentation that Dish provides does not show how to connect these other configurations. Anyone you talk to at Dish will tell you that it is not supported if you happen to figure out how to do it yourself.

Like I said, you can certainly do it if you want... others have been doing it... but you need to keep in mind going into it that Dish isn't going to support any problems that arise from an unsupported configuration. I'm not making it up. Call Dish, escalate up to their highest support and see. There are surely reasons why it is not supported. We don't know what they have tested internally, what problems they might have found and decided it wasn't worth the headache of supporting for customer configurations.

It isn't the first or last limit on supported configurations of Dish equipment, or any company with any equipment for that matter.

Bottom line... Dish will activate the 8 receivers you are talking about... and Dish will even install them, in a non-interconnected supported way... and you can go behind them and re-connect to let everything see everything else apparently... but if you do have any problems that arise from that configuration, Dish is going to tell you "that's not supported" and you're on your own to figure out what's wrong OR you'll have to reconfigure to a supported installation to see if the problem persists yourself.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

One caveat: If one is dealing with a local installer who sells DISH but is not a contractor sent by DISH one might be able to get a "non-standard" installation that is supported by that local installer (not DISH corporate). If you had any problems that could be blamed on "more than two Hoppers" one would need to seek local support. Local support would not help if one hit a software limit on the number of Hoppers that would play nice together.

As far as the argument that "DISH activated it, DISH should support it" the easy answer for DISH would be to apologize for activating the additional receivers and deactivate down to the supported level.


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## Zulu (May 11, 2012)

Stewart Vernon said:


> All the documentation that Dish provides does not show how to connect these other configurations.


Sounds like you're quoting the IT mantra: _That which is not expressly permitted is forbidden._


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Zulu said:


> Sounds like you're quoting the IT mantra: _That which is not expressly permitted is forbidden._


Which is better than the NASCAR mantra: "That which is not expressly forbidden is permitted."

The reality of what Stewart and I are saying is: "That which is not expressly permitted is not supported."


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## Zulu (May 11, 2012)

I'm with NASCAR, but . . .

Would this be a supported configuration? 8 Hoppers - 4 Networks


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## n0qcu (Mar 23, 2002)

NO, you cannot hook up the node to the power inserter.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

n0qcu said:


> NO, you cannot hook up the node to the power inserter.


tell us how exactly it will not work? PI doesn't affect DiSEqC and rated up to 3 GHz!


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## n0qcu (Mar 23, 2002)

It probably would work fine but dish policy doesn't allow it.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

While this seems very neatly organized.
It's seems like a big mess expensive, and no way would I ever want to begin to troubleshoot it.

There has to be a better way to hook up 3 or 4 hoppers. Your talking 9 or 12 tuners. 
I've seen 28 tuner directv with half the equipment pictured on this 4 hopper system.

So why is all of this needed?
Why isn't there a System like Directv swm16?


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

Zulu said:


> Here's an equipment photo & network diagram of a Satelliteguys user's *4 Hopper* (sorry, not 8) system:


This is crazy.
I would imagine this is not often practiced!
And no Dish Tech is ever going to do this, certainly not for free.

I will admit the picture is well organized, but with that mess you would have no choice but to be that organized. 
Way too many points of failure, way to many.
I see over 75 possible points of potential failure from connections to switches, cables , multi switches,splitters, Power Inserters
Image seeing this on the side of your house.


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## Zulu (May 11, 2012)

n0qcu said:


> It probably would work fine but dish policy doesn't allow it.


What DISH policy?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

damondlt said:


> So why is all of this needed?
> Why isn't there a System like Directv swm16?


DISH does not have SWiM. Each receiver with a satellite tuner needs a direct feed from a switch or node (depending on the type of receiver). Nodes need two or three direct feeds from a switch (usually a switch built in to the LNB). Only Joeys (not Super Joeys) can use a split feed - although a Joey and a Hopper/Hopper w/Sling/Super Joey can share the same feed from the node.

It is the curse of the home run cable ... fortunately for people with normal installs it doesn't get as complicated as shown.



damondlt said:


> Image seeing this on the side of your house.


It isn't on the side of the house ... it is in a basement or utility room. The switches and nodes could be placed outside but the power inserters need to be indoors. For a large installation, an indoor wiring panel is a good idea.

Hopefully you have noticed that half of that board has nothing to do with the satellite signal distribution (see attached for a trimmed version of the picture showing just the satellite switches).


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

Hey have at it.
It's excessive to say the least.
There has to be a better way then all that.
And I know the picture is in a basement. 
But most installers are not faced with properly place sheats of plywood in a nice dry basement.
And you still need some type of networking, which you left out of your 2nd edited picture.
And what about the Joeys?


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

Guess I'm used to this,


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Zulu said:


> What DISH policy?


It's hard to tell if you are just arguing for arguing sake or if you really don't understand what we have been talking about.

There are lots of things that technically might work BUT are unsupported by Dish. This is true of lots of products made by lots of companies.

You have essentially two questions, both of which have been answered:

1. Does this interconnect work, technically? Yes, it does, apparently as some have tried it out.
2. Will Dish support it? No, Dish will not support it.

So, you can do these things... but you can't expect Dish to support problems that might arise from doing so. It's really that simple. We don't know exactly why Dish does not support these configurations... maybe it's about money, or maybe they encountered problems in testing that were only mitigated by limiting the interconnects... who knows? But Dish will not support these configurations whether they seem to work or not and no matter what diagram you find that says "it can be done."


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## Zulu (May 11, 2012)

Stewart Vernon said:


> It's hard to tell if you are just arguing for arguing sake or if you really don't understand what we have been talking about.
> 
> There are lots of things that technically might work BUT are unsupported by Dish.


The drawing I linked to in post #25 was not the same as my previous one (8 Hoppers with _interlinked_ Duo Nodes).

The post #25 drawing shows 8 Hoppers connected in 4 _different_ networks, not one big one. The Duo Nodes are _not_ linked together.

The post #25 drawing seems to be supported by DISH in these references:

DISH Installation Reference Handbook - Section 1 - DPP44 switch (page 1-11) which describes a limit of 3 trunked DPP44 switches. It's also interesting that the example on page 1-11 shows 4 receivers (for a total of 6 tuners) attached to a single DPP44.

DISH Whole Home Installation Configurations - Duo Node (page 2) which says it can be used with a DPP switch.
So I think there's enough DISH documentation to support an 8-Hopper network.

The other issue is if DISH _allow_ anyone to have 8 Hoppers? They told me I could have _at least_ 7.

So what don't I understand?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

damondlt said:


> But most installers are not faced with properly place sheats of plywood in a nice dry basement.


Most installers will not touch a system with more than two Hoppers ... this thread is about special installations.



damondlt said:


> And you still need some type of networking, which you left out of your 2nd edited picture.
> And what about the Joeys?


Minimum networking is connecting a single Ethernet cable to the back of any Hopper. The system uses MoCA to talk between the Hoppers and Joeys ... over the cabling shown. From the node one cable is run to each Hopper. Each Duo node can support two Hoppers.

Joeys (if present) can be split off of the feed to a Hopper (one joey per Hopper feed, per the standard), or connected to a client port on the Node (up to two Joeys per client port, per the standard). The photograph shows a cable connecting two client ports on different nodes, which is one way of bridging MoCA between two nodes (and creating a larger system).

Joeys can also be connected directly to Ethernet without any coax connection. One can also buy wireless Joeys or (unsupported) connect regular Joeys wirelesely.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Zulu said:


> So I think there's enough DISH documentation to support an 8-Hopper network.


Optimistically it could work ... but you are taking supported installations, adding something else and still calling them supported. You might as well be connecting an OTA antenna to the node or a DirecTV receiver. Once you leave the supported documentation you are on your own.



Zulu said:


> The other issue is if DISH _allow_ anyone to have 8 Hoppers? They told me I could have _at least_ 7.
> 
> So what don't I understand?


Did you start this thread just for the sake of argument or are you planning an eight Hopper system? If you just want to argue the thread is pointless ... if you really want an eight Hopper system build it and then post proof that it worked. But do not be surprised if there is some limitation people have not discovered in their "home brew" testing and do not be surprised if DISH refuses to make it work.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

I would bet it's just to argue, because I would never see anything practical about 4 hopper system let alone an 8 hopper system.

I always liked a fairly large system , but I learned fast all that extra receiver fees, and addtional troubleshooting is not worth the ability to record that much content. 
I'm not sure how anyone can find time to record that much stuff let alone watch it there is only 24 hours in a day.
I know I'm gone 11-14 hours a day ,so between household chores and sleep, Maybe I get an hour or 2 tops. 
6 tuners in our family of 4 works just fine.
We could even manage 5 if we had too.

After all its just tv!


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## Zulu (May 11, 2012)

James Long said:


> Did you start this thread just for the sake of argument or are you planning an eight Hopper system? If you just want to argue the thread is pointless ... if you really want an eight Hopper system build it and then post proof that it worked. But do not be surprised if there is some limitation people have not discovered in their "home brew" testing and do not be surprised if DISH refuses to make it work.


Nope. I was (and still am) looking for examples of multi-Hopper installs.

I kept pressing to see _where you got your information _on supported Hopper systems.

At the end of the day, it sounds like you're saying if it isn't explicitly in Dish's Install Manual, then it wouldn't be supported. For example, since only 2-Hopper systems are shown, that's the max DISH will support, right?


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## n0qcu (Mar 23, 2002)

Zulu said:


> What DISH policy?


the one in this pdf.

View attachment hopper install rules.pdf


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

damondlt said:


> I always liked a fairly large system , but I learned fast all that extra receiver fees, and addtional troubleshooting is not worth the ability to record that much content.


One Hopper per person sounds good. That is the only drawback I see to the system is the limited number of tuners. But I came from a cable home where everyone could watch a different channel with no tuner issues. When one limits the number of tuners one limits the number of options. People watching the same thing? That is so 1980s ...

The good news is that a DVR allows one to watch recordings if a live tuner is not available. And the Hopper uses one tuner for all four major networks at any time one of the networks is in use ... so if one watches/records the big four the other two tuners remain free.

But I can see where one Hopper per person would be helpful. Not cheap, but if one is willing to pay why not? It is only money.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Zulu said:


> At the end of the day, it sounds like you're saying if it isn't explicitly in Dish's Install Manual, then it wouldn't be supported. For example, since only 2-Hopper systems are shown, that's the max DISH will support, right?


I believe we have different definitions of supported ... yours seems to be "but will it work"? Mine is "but will DISH make it work"?

Will it work? Maybe. Will DISH make it work? Probably not. An independent installer or customer doing their own wiring? Possible. DISH corporate installers and support? Good luck with that (see PDF posted by n0qcu).

You might as well be asking about a tree mounted DISH.


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## Zulu (May 11, 2012)

n0qcu said:


> the one in this pdf.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You highlighted this Hopper install rule:

_*When using a power inserter, it must be installed before the Node*_

_Connect ports 2-4 on the switch to the Node and port 1 to the power inserter_

If you look at both my multi-Hopper diagrams, that's exactly how it's shown -- the power inserter is between the Node and the DPP44 switch (but it's before the Node). DISH does not want you running the power inserter _through a Node_ before it goes to the switch.

But kudos for at least checking DISH Hopper documentation.


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## Zulu (May 11, 2012)

James Long said:


> You might as well be asking about a tree mounted DISH.


How about a beach-mounted dish? The signal strength would get a little dicey in waves.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

That's nice lol.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Here is the complete installation document for a Hopper system.

The use of a DPP44 switch and a power inserter is intended for one of two specific type of systems:
1) A two hopper system with a ViP receiver (allowed for people with tailgater receivers)
The ViP receiver requires a input ... when all three outputs on an LNB are in use there is no place to connect the ViP receiver. Thus the requirement to use a DPP44 to create a fourth output is needed.

2) A system that uses a 1000+ dish as an input (adding the 118 satellite)
The LNBs on the 1000+ are separate ... they must be run through a DPP44 to create the DPP inputs required by a Hopper system.

If you download the 4.31 MB document and look through all of the installation diagrams you will see the various supported installations. You will not find a four hopper system. You will not find multiple node systems. You will find installations that are supported by DISH.


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## Zulu (May 11, 2012)

James Long said:


> If you download the 4.31 MB document and look through all of the installation diagrams you will see the various supported installations. You will not find a four hopper system. You will not find multiple node systems. *You will find installations that are supported by DISH.*


Page 9, too? :sure:


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Zulu said:


> Page 9, too? :sure:


Yes. Page 9. As outline in the post where I included the document, DISH allows one ViP receiver on Hopper accounts.

Allowing a Hopper on ViP accounts does NOT imply support for more than one node nor more than two Hoppers. Show me the DISH created diagram where they show two Duo nodes or more than two Hoppers.


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## Zulu (May 11, 2012)

James Long said:


> Yes. Page 9. As outline in the post where I included the document, DISH allows one ViP receiver on Hopper accounts.
> 
> Allowing a Hopper on ViP accounts does NOT imply support for more than one node nor more than two Hoppers. Show me the DISH created diagram where they show two Duo nodes or more than two Hoppers.


Ok, let's agree to disagree on this.

I think you believe that an explicit drawing is necessary for every (most?) Hopper configurations. I don't.

Now, back to my original query . . . n0qcu, how about telling us about your 4 Hopper system?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Zulu said:


> I think you believe that an explicit drawing is necessary for every (most?) Hopper configurations. I don't.


It is not your place to tell people what I believe. They can read my posts for themselves.
Call DISH ... ask them to install four Hoppers. See how the install turns out.

Now ... lets see an example of someone who has done more than four.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Dish supports single and dual node installations for one Hopper (single node) or 2 Hopper (dual node) configurations.

Dish will only lease you 2 Hopper receivers.

You can, however, purchase additional Hopper receivers and if you buy the additional necessary equipment (specifically dual nodes and dpp44 switches) then you can hook those up OR probably pay a Dish installer to do it for you... BUT if you pay a Dish tech to do the work, what you'll get are two isolated dual nodes for a 4-Hopper installation.

So... Does Dish support 4-Hopper installations? Sure, as far as I can tell nothing says Dish would not support a 4-Hopper installation.

What Dish would not support, however, is interconnecting those dual nodes. You will not find a Dish employee who will say they support that configuration... You would have to do that bit yourself, and Dish would not help you with any problems that arise from it.

Anywhere you find anyone who has set these interconnected setups and posted their diagrams, you can bet these guys did it themselves AND are supporting it themselves if they have problems. They do it because that's what a lot of us do... we push the technology to see what we can make it do that isn't advertised... but we don't call up Dish and expect them to support our findings.

We're not really discussing rocket science here. There's some stuff that works beyond what Dish has decided to support... and it's cool, as long as you make those configurations with the understanding that you're on your own if you run into any problems. There are no "Dish police" who will come and tear out the cabling if you connect one of these non-supported setups... but they aren't going to help you out either.

We could have this discussion on any number of things at any number of companies... there's almost always some way people figure out how to use a thing in their home for a different purpose than the manufacturer intends... and that's all cool. Nothing at all wrong with it! But the companies don't support every possible thing we consumers might try.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

I have a few questions about a setup.
Can you lease , 2 hoppers, a super Joey, a regular Joey,and a 211k ?

Is it possible to have this setup?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

damondlt said:


> I have a few questions about a setup.
> Can you lease , 2 hoppers, a super Joey, a regular Joey,and a 211k ?
> 
> Is it possible to have this setup?


No.

Super Joeys can only be added to a single Hopper system. Two Hoppers and a Super Joey is a non-starter.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

Okay scratch that, a regular Joey would be fine.
2 hoppers 2 joeys and maybe one or 2 211ks.

We just sold our vacation house in Up state NY and bought one in Virginia , which we are going to live there every weekend starting next month.
It's only around 4-5 hours from my current home in Pa.

I was going to just bring my Directv stuff, but I think we want to give the hoppers a try.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Two Hoppers. two Joeys is a routine install. You would be able to purchase one 211k and add it to the account, but not two (the intent is to allow for tailgating on the 211k).


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

James Long said:


> Two Hoppers. two Joeys is a routine install. You would be able to purchase one 211k and add it to the account, but not two (the intent is to allow for tailgating on the 211k).


Okay we could make one 211k work, But 2 hoppers and 2 joeys is considered a standard install?

I have no choice but satellite where the house is. 
No Roamios, but OTA is also an option.


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## Zulu (May 11, 2012)

damondlt said:


> Guess I'm used to this,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


In this DirecTV network, how many of the receivers can access programming from the others? (I'm assuming they're all DVRs).


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Zulu said:


> In this DirecTV network, how many of the receivers can access programming from the others? (I'm assuming they're all DVRs).


They all can.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

All except for the ones on the Legacy ports, which are just old Standard Legacy boxes.
But yes anything on the Swm side can all be shared.
They have a mix in that picture, But you can have 8 HR24S if you want.

And the PI doesn't have to go directly to the swm16 , you can use the power pass on the SWM splitter that is on the SWM number 1 leg.


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## DBordello (Dec 16, 2006)

With this much traffic MoCA seems foolish. However, perhaps it is more capable than I give it credit for.

I would move all inter-receiver traffic to an ethernet network. Put the Hoppers and Joeys on a nice gigabitswitch. I have been running my SuperJoey over ethernet for about 16 months, without a single issue. To do so, I disconnected the MoCA feed from the Coax, so it is just receiving the feed from the Sat.


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## DBordello (Dec 16, 2006)

One additional question on multi hopper setups. Does it operate like a single cohesive unit? Aka, just set up things to record, and it will use the proper tuner and storage device? Much like how a Super Joey is integral with the Hopper? Or does it behave like individual Hoppers, and you can just stream from each?


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## david_jr (Dec 10, 2006)

When you have more than one hopper, you can still only record from the hopper you are currently controlling. If you set up a timer on the hopper and it causes a conflict on that hopper, the hopper will ask you if you want the event to record on Hopper 2. Not sure how this works on systems with more than 2 hoppers as I only have 2. But the feature does work well. You can view the recording and watch from any hopper or joey on the system.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Dish officially supports the 2-Hopper setup and what david_jr mentions about the timer setup when conflicts happen... but I don't know what happens for people who have 3-4 Hoppers cross-connected in non-supported ways. I would suspect you get some hit or miss scenarios with the timers and conflicts because I doubt Dish has code setup to roll those timers across more than the supported 2-Hopper configuration.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

James Long said:


> You would be able to purchase one 211k and add it to the account, but not two (the intent is to allow for tailgating on the 211k).


My dealer tells me that you can use up to two owned ViP211 receivers on a Hopper account.

I don't imagine it is reasonable to assume that those who tailgate would not want access to more than one channel at a time.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

harsh said:


> My dealer tells me that you can use up to two owned ViP211 receivers on a Hopper account.
> 
> I don't imagine it is reasonable to assume that those who tailgate would not want access to more than one channel at a time.


What is reasonable and what is DISH policy do not always overlap. Perhaps DISH relaxed the rules.


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## Zulu (May 11, 2012)

david_jr said:


> When you have more than one hopper, you can still only record from the hopper you are currently controlling. If you set up a timer on the hopper and it causes a conflict on that hopper, the hopper will ask you if you want the event to record on Hopper 2. *Not sure how this works on systems with more than 2 hoppers as I only have 2*. But the feature does work well. You can view the recording and watch from any hopper or joey on the system.


You're prompted to record on the 3rd Hopper.


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## Zulu (May 11, 2012)

DBordello said:


> One additional question on multi hopper setups. Does it operate like a single cohesive unit?


If you make MoCA connections between each node (Duo or Solo), then the recordings on all the Hoppers are available. However, you can only see the external drive programs for the Hopper you're currently using.

All connected Hoppers show up in the DVR menu:


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## enrique soto (Oct 12, 2017)

Zulu said:


> I typically never go to DISH to "sort things out". I try to get the answers ahead of time before I ever call DISH. This is from years of experience with an RV account and finding DISH hopelessly uninformed on things RV.
> 
> Here's a diagram for 4-Hopper single network that a Satelliteguys member has actually set up. _Note: he leased 2 Hoppers from DISH and had to purchase the other 2 Hoppers. Plus, he used a DISH 1000+_: 4 Hoppers - Single Network
> 
> ...


Hi i need your help , i need to conecte 5 hoppers 2 , in a mini mdu with 3 antenas . 119 129 and 77 satelites can you help with a diagram ? can i use amplifiers line ,


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## RBA (Apr 14, 2013)

enrique soto said:


> Hi i need your help , i need to conecte 5 hoppers 2 , in a mini mdu with 3 antenas . 119 129 and 77 satelites can you help with a diagram ? can i use amplifiers line ,


Try contacting DISH, they used to have a commercial dept that helped with this type of install.. I don't know if it still exists but it sounds like you may be their territory.


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

Look at the 8 Hopper configuration in post 4 of this thread. From there you can drop Hoppers, nodes, etc. out of the 8 Hopper setup down to whatever your need might be.

Would a dual Hopper3 system work better for you?


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## 529rvlife (Jan 29, 2018)

you can only have 1 hopper 3 per any account. Owned or leased, doesnt matter. However you can have mult Hopper 2's on one account , 5 if they are leased and more if you own them. or a commercial account might work.


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## gpauljr (Jul 11, 2007)

Not so, I have two authorized Hopper 3's on my account, one leased and one owned.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

gpauljr said:


> Not so, I have two authorized Hopper 3's on my account, one leased and one owned.


is it residential or business account ?


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## patmurphey (Dec 21, 2006)

P Smith, a limited number of 2 Hopper3 accounts have been authorized by appeals to the President's office for residential customers. The second must be owned. In addition, early on in the introduction, a few were able to finagle 2 Hopper3s.


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## 529rvlife (Jan 29, 2018)

OK well, I thought for a minute they might have lifted that god aweful restriction. I was hopeful at least. Anyway, I got back on chat just now and the answer was the same. only 1 hopper 3 per account. Here is the transcript.

Me(21:16:03 GMT) : how many hopper 3s can be on one account?
Me(21:16:15 GMT) : i was told before the limit is 1
Me(21:16:20 GMT) : is that still current?
Dish Rep (21:17:54 GMT) : And I will be more than willing to check that for you.
Dish Rep (21:19:58 GMT) : As per checking, we only allow one Hopper 3 for the account.
Me (21:20:41 GMT) : ok thats all i need to know. thank you .
Dish Rep (21:20:57 GMT) : It is because Hopper 3 got 16 tuners already.
Dish Rep (21:21:10 GMT) : That is why one Hopper 3 is already enough.
Me (21:21:02 GMT) : Visitor has requested for email transcript

Chat Start Time Jan 31, 2018 21:15:44 GMT
Chat End Time Jan 31, 2018 21:21:49 GMT

Ok, well I would LOVE to know how one gets two Hopper 3's activated on one account. I own all of my equipment down to the RG6, so not even owning could get me a approved second Hopper 3. I have gone rounds with dish reps on chat and on the phone, front office back office all of it trying to get two hopper 3's. Eventually I just removed my hopper 3 and activated 3 Hopper 2's and may do a 4th later I dont know, but would just really love to have two hopper 3's. That would be ideal. 

love to hear how this was approved.


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## patmurphey (Dec 21, 2006)

There are several threads on how 2 Hopper3s were acquired over on satelliteguys.us.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

dragging to other site, instead of give direct answer here ...tsk,tsk,tsk


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## 529rvlife (Jan 29, 2018)

I just looked over 12 pages over there on hopper 3's and came across nothing on it. I have scoured that site long ago trying to figure it out. I did however come across people who have activated their hopper 3 and had all other recievers on their account forceablly removed leaving them without use of their equipment.

Even so, I am waiting to hear from the guy above how he, personally, activated two hopper 3's on the same residential account. Because I know he didnt buy himself two hopper 3s call up dish customer service and activate them both.

Did he get them during their initial beta phase back in Jan 2016? Was there something special he said when he called dish to activate two Hopper 3's? A Code word? Was there a Back door phone number? Was he selected to try out two of them on his account before they were even released to beta phase 2015? Is he even on a residential account? I am looking for a specific reason he was granted two hopper 3 activations on the same account.

As it sits right now, Dish managment will not approve it. I could go out and buy two more hopper 3's and call them up and they will not activate more than 1 on my account. They wont allow it on a Hybrid account either, and a hybrid account has a reflector entirely to itself, which throws the "16 tuners use the entire reflector so you cant have another one" out the window.

If you pay attention to the language used in the chat support window I had, she is making a point to make sure she makes clear that there is no reason I SHOULD WANT more than one. As if asking for two hopper 3's to be activated is some sort of suspicious activity. When I speak with customer service, any time I have asked to activate two hopper 3's, they are always VERY INTERESTED in WHY I would ever want two hopper 3's. Which is odd in my book. why does it matter. I want two hopper 3's. They provide serivice only, its not really their buisness. I dont work for them. They work for me.

Over and over "only one hopper 3 and nothing else" is the answer. I spent over 3 hours on the phone trying to get this to happen just last Saturday.

So, I want to hear the path the above poster took to get two Hopper 3's activated (not the same as aquired-you can aquire as many hopper 3's as you like, but activating them for use on the account together is something else entirely) on a Residential account or Residential Hybrid Account. I am not on a contract, I own all my own gear, so that is not a factor in their refusal to activate two hopper 3's. So, again, love to hear how he accomplished this. So that I might too follow his steps.

I just chatted again. And they gave me the same answer. No.

Update:
I just found one post , posted few days ago. she says dish approved two hopper 3's because she has 8 TV's. I do believe this would be a commercial account. Here is the link. The type of account she has is not posted, nor the process by which she accomplished this, with a follow up poster saying when dish makes it easy to get a second hopper 3 she will get one, which suggessts she too has tried and failed to accomplish this very same thing.

Multiple Hopper 3's?

Still, its not really a path forward that I can see. We run 5 Tv's, which is 2/3 of what she runs, and they did not have sympathy for us for this aspect of our setup. So I If I had 3 more Tv's would that entitle me to a second Hopper 3? I will wait to see what the above poster has to say.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

well, at least you have something to make it happen - get a dozen of TV from all your relatives and friends, set them in each room include bathroom  and call dish CSR


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## 529rvlife (Jan 29, 2018)

LOL!!!


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## patmurphey (Dec 21, 2006)

P Smith said:


> dragging to other site, instead of give direct answer here ...tsk,tsk,tsk


It's complicated and there have been several different ways it was accomplished. Pardon me for not writing a book!


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## 529rvlife (Jan 29, 2018)

The specifics to accomplishing the said task is all that is sought here. A path forward for those who would like to pursue this, based on the experience of those who have already accomplished this task. However, the very fact that you list it as complicated is a indication that the ability to accomplish this is not available to just anyone. 

Thank you though. Hopefully the previous poster will respond.


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## patmurphey (Dec 21, 2006)

If you read the forum/threads that I posted about, you will find that the solution was persistence in several different avenues to find someone in the President's office who could authorize it - nothing special about the customer.


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## 529rvlife (Jan 29, 2018)

I did find the girl who got two hopper 3's Here. I am persistant thats why i know it cant be done on a single account.

They required two seperate residential accounts and two seperate dishes.
These people dont have two on one account, they have two seperate accounts, one to accomodate each hopper 3. The managment has to authorize it but thats what needs to happen in order to accomplish two hopper 3's at one location.

This is what dish offered me when i called to have a second hopper 3 activated. They said I would need to establish and maintain a new residential account, pay for programming all over again as well as my dvr fees, my protection plan, my add ons, ect, I would be paying essentially 198$ mo X 2, just to have a second hopper 3.

So since people said they got two hopper 3s on one account I began to try to find out how.

The deal with two Hopper 3's.

the answer is, no, you cant have two hopper 3's on one account.


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## patmurphey (Dec 21, 2006)

Not true. There are customers with 2 Hopper3s on one account. Read the threads I referred to earlier. If you go through CSRs or DIRT, you can't do it.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

It has been done (past) and it cannot be done (now/future) are different statements. When was the last time someone was able to get it done?


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## 529rvlife (Jan 29, 2018)

you gave no links. no specifics. no phone numbers. no names. I called several numbers listed for Dish Executive Office this morning, There is no Presidents Office listing for Dish that i could find, also Dish Internet Response Team WOULD OBVIOUSLY not be able to activate a hopper. for the day to day person there is no obvious option to get two hopper 3's on one account.

Personally, ALL times I have ever called beginning May 2017 to just last weekend to try and negotiate a second Hopper 3 I have been refused. Using all means by which to communicate. The only option they offered me from the BACK OFFICE, whatever that is, was to establish a second account. that was the only option given. 

Again, if someone could provide personal knowledge of specifics for a path forward for those interested in this setup, that would be great.


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## gpauljr (Jul 11, 2007)

I recently had two Hopper 3's installed on one account and one dish. In fact when I set up the account DISH recommended I have two. I had to purchase one (found much cheaper over the internet than from DISH). Have 5 Joey 3's and one 4K Joey.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

gpauljr said:


> I recently had two Hopper 3's installed on one account and one dish. In fact when I set up the account DISH recommended I have two. I had to purchase one (found much cheaper over the internet than from DISH). Have 5 Joey 3's and one 4K Joey.


and how many UHD and HD TVs in your household ?


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## gpauljr (Jul 11, 2007)

7 HD and one UHD


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