# Pioneer VSX-1019AH-K vs Onkyo HT-S7200



## Mark Walters

I have a 17x20 room with a 58'' plasma along with a Directv HR23 box on a stand. I am looking for a htib or something reasonably priced. The Pioneer VSX-1019AH-K is the highest rated mid-level receiver says CNET. It doesn't have bad reviews for upconverting analog. All of the Onkyo htib's have horrible ratings for upconverting. I'm not sure if that's important or not. I'm connecting everything via HDMI -- perhaps a VCR. I plan on adding a PS3 slim for the blu ray on top of this purchase and then I'm done.

I'm wondering if it's fine to match the Pioneer receiver along with the speaker system of the Onkyo HT-S7200 which is the (HTS-7100). Or do you think it would be better to just purchase the Onkyo HT-S7200 and not mix and match.

It would cost me an extra $100 to go with the pioneer av receiver and the HTS-7100 7 speaker set. That doesn't bother me, but I guess I'm wondering if it will sound better and show a better picture with the pioneer rather than the Onkyo receiver.

Any help would be appreciated.

M


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## CCarncross

If you've heard the Onkyo speakers and are happy with their sound quality, go for it. As long as the receiver has the features you want, and the remote doesnt make you gag, thats what a receiver does. The really important part is the sound of the speakers...


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## Mark Walters

Not sure how they sound... I'll look around or wait to see some reviews of the Onkyo speakers. Thanks


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## spartanstew

What's your total budget?


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## Mark Walters

The Pioneer VSX-1019AH-k is $500 right now...probably because of demand.

The Onkyo HT-7200 full system is $783 and just the 7 speakers without the receiver is $388.

So that's about $900.

I see the Onkyo HT-S9100THX 7.1 is $900 as well, but I believe the receiver gets bad ratings as well on upconversion. But to answer your question -- not more than $900 for everything.


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## spartanstew

The problem with that scenario is that you're spending too much on your receiver and not enough on your speakers. A good set of speakers can last you a lifetime, but many people change receivers every few years.

That being said, if I were in your situation and wanted that receiver, I'd go with THIS SPEAKER SET ($250) to go with the Pioneer receiver. That'll put you at about $750.

There's many sub options for $150 that will serve the purpose for now. In time, you could always upgrade the sub if you want. HERE'S ONE, for example that should serve you well.

For $900, it'd be much better than the HTIB speakers.


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## spartanstew

Also, if you don't need the extra HDMI and the 1080p upscaling, you can get the Pioneer 919 for less than$350 shipped HERE. Will is an authorized Pioneer dealer and many people at avs use him for purchases (I bought my Pio 03 from him about 9 months ago). That'll allow you to either save $150 or have $300 to spend on a sub.

edit: Will probably has the 1019 as well, but you'd need to call him.


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## CCarncross

Never buy speakers b4 hearing them....thats a crime against audio humanity...


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## Mark Walters

Thanks a lot for the information!


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## Mark Walters

Spartan,

Would you go with the Klipsch Quintet III or the Klipsch Quintet SL? The SL is more expensive but I don't get a clear sense of which one is better over the other and if it is noticeable. Perhaps I'll just complete the set with the Klipsch sub 10 for $300 since the reviews are flawless. 

Speakers either $250 quintet III or $400 quintet sl
Sub 10 $300
Leaves between $200 and $350 for receiver. = 900 budget

If you have a recommendation on buying the quintet III or Sl, please let me know. Thanks

M


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## CCarncross

You really need to go out and listen to them for yourself...I think that was one of the points several of us have tried to stress as important.


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## spartanstew

I do recommend auditioning speakers first, if you can. It's not always possible, but when it is, you should. Best Buy carries the Klipsch, so you should head there and check it out. I'm a big fan of Klipsch and have had the original quintets in my living room for almost 10 years (with Klipsch sub). 

I went with Axiom's for my theater and since their mail order only, I took a leap of faith after reading as many reviews as I could. If they would have been available to listen to locally, I certainly would have.

Now, to your question. If you'll use these for 80% or more TV/movies, I'd get the III's. If you will be using them for music more than 20% of the time, I'd probably get the Sl's.

Either way, I'd also get the 12" sub for $50 more in a room that size. It'll make a noticeable difference. 

Sub - $350
Quints - $250

Leaves you $300 for a receiver. 

What's the rest of your equipment?


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## CSD

I was debating between the Onkyo tx-sr607tx and VSX-1019AH, until this past weekend when I listed to/purchased the Onkyo HT-S7200 at HHGregg in Columbus, OH. I never expected to purchase from a brick&mortar, but they were able to sell it for $639 + tax (their list price minus 20%). Better than any deal I've found online. I've had it for two days now and am very pleased with the sound and ease of setup.


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## Shades228

I was deciding between those 2 receivers and I chose the Onkyo. I don't miind the upscaling because I don't connect anything other than HDMI. The remote does leave a lot to be desired with the Onkyo however the setup and 6 HDMI ports are very nice. I know some people liked the Pioneer because it posts more watts/channel but that changes with your speaker setup as well.


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## logandraven

While I am not the audiophile that some others are, I do try to be a bit discerning about the systems I purchase. My last two receives were mid-range Yamaha systems, both of which were very good. After doing a fair amount of research I went ahead and purchased the Pioneer VSX-1019, and have been very pleased with it. In my opinion one would be very hard pressed to find a better receiver or match the 1019 in quality and capabilities at the $500 price point. I did look at systems that were 50% higher in price and they didn't match up well at all.

I do have to agree with earlier points about choosing a decent pair of speakers... then again, as we all know, that is a relative term in these discussions. Me? I am running ten year old Eosone satellite speakers and they sound outstanding. Rather than upgrade my speakers I chose instead to go ahead and get the Oppo BD-83... and I have to say it was worth every doggone penny : )


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## spartanstew

logandraven said:


> Rather than upgrade my speakers I chose instead to go ahead and get the Oppo BD-83... and I have to say it was worth every doggone penny : )


The Oppo is only worth the money if you use it to play a lot of non-blu ray discs (DVD-A, SACD, etc.). For strictly Blu Ray and DVD playback, there's options for less than half the price of the Oppo that will perform just as well.


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## logandraven

spartanstew said:


> The Oppo is only worth the money if you use it to play a lot of non-blu ray discs (DVD-A, SACD, etc.). For strictly Blu Ray and DVD playback, there's options for less than half the price of the Oppo that will perform just as well.


Hi Spartan. Having read a few of the threads I am well aware of your opinion of the Oppo, and while I certainly respect your right to an opinion, it is nonetheless wrong.

For starters you really need to stop telling people that there are "options for less than half the price...that will perform just as well." You can call a Yugo a Ferrari but it doesn't make it true. You can call Obama a fiscal conservative but that doesn't make it true either. In fact, you can spend your next 5,700 posts telling people that there are options for less than half the price that perform just as well, and 5,700 posts from now it still won't be true.

-EVERY- review of the Oppo has stated that it is the best blu ray player on the market. In each of those reviews the review made clear that it is the best in blu ray playback, in standard DVD upscaling, and in audio playback. In fact, virtually all have put it forth as the new benchmark in blu ray players.

Even in those instances where another player may load well, or another upscale well, and yet another handle difficult video rendering well, there are NONE that match up equal to or better than the Oppo. Not on blu ray playback, not in DVD upscaling, and not in audio. Not on any one of those categories let alone all in their totality.

One can also not overemphasize just how good the Oppo is at audio. As many reviewers and owners can attest, it is better than most stand-alone systems costing thousands.

No one, least of all me, is saying that the PS3, Panasonic BD60, Samsung's P4600, or that the LG 390 are bad units. For those that don't want to spend $500 or don't have it to spend, then by all means get another system... just know that they are lesser systems.

Also, it is important to point out that some of the better players in question are -still- in the $300 to $399 range. Paying an extra hundred bucks for the best system on the market, with some of the best customer service I've ever encountered, is well worth the money whether you use it for audio or not.

But hey I'm not telling anyone to just take my word for it. I encourage everyone to read the numerous reviews that are available for the system and make an educated and informed decision. But lets not call a Yugo a Ferrari and put it forth as truth. Take care. J


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## spartanstew

logandraven said:


> Hi Spartan. Having read a few of the threads I am well aware of your opinion of the Oppo, and while I certainly respect your right to an opinion, it is nonetheless wrong.
> 
> For starters you really need to stop telling people that there are "options for less than half the price...that will perform just as well." You can call a Yugo a Ferrari but it doesn't make it true. You can call Obama a fiscal conservative but that doesn't make it true either. In fact, you can spend your next 5,700 posts telling people that there are options for less than half the price that perform just as well, and 5,700 posts from now it still won't be true.
> 
> -EVERY- review of the Oppo has stated that it is the best blu ray player on the market. In each of those reviews the review made clear that it is the best in blu ray playback, in standard DVD upscaling, and in audio playback. In fact, virtually all have put it forth as the new benchmark in blu ray players.
> 
> Even in those instances where another player may load well, or another upscale well, and yet another handle difficult video rendering well, there are NONE that match up equal to or better than the Oppo. Not on blu ray playback, not in DVD upscaling, and not in audio. Not on any one of those categories let alone all in their totality.
> 
> One can also not overemphasize just how good the Oppo is at audio. As many reviewers and owners can attest, it is better than most stand-alone systems costing thousands.
> 
> No one, least of all me, is saying that the PS3, Panasonic BD60, Samsung's P4600, or that the LG 390 are bad units. For those that don't want to spend $500 or don't have it to spend, then by all means get another system... just know that they are lesser systems.
> 
> Also, it is important to point out that some of the better players in question are -still- in the $300 to $399 range. Paying an extra hundred bucks for the best system on the market, with some of the best customer service I've ever encountered, is well worth the money whether you use it for audio or not.
> 
> But hey I'm not telling anyone to just take my word for it. I encourage everyone to read the numerous reviews that are available for the system and make an educated and informed decision. But lets not call a Yugo a Ferrari and put it forth as truth. Take care. J


Trust me, I've read all the reviews. The partial reviews and the impartial. Yep, the Oppo is one fine player. That's why it was Home Theater Magazine's product of the year. However, it wins those awards and gets the praises, mostly for ALL it can do. No other player in its price class does everything it can do.

Now, as to your claims. It is not the best in Blu Ray playback. It is equal in Blu Ray playback to almost every other player.

Yes, the Oppo is currently the best at upscaling standard DVD's, but IMO, the extra $200 - $300 is not worth it for that purpose. If you play a lot of DVD's (as compared to Blu Ray), then maybe it's worth it. If you have a quality display and another quality Blu Ray player, you'd be hard pressed to notice the difference unless you were doing a side by side comparison.

Here's a comparison thread over at avs for your reading pleasure. It is an unbiased, synthetic and real world comparison of many players. You'll notice that the Oppo is indeed the best. You should also notice, however, that the Pio 51FD is the second best and cost LESS THAN HALF THE OPPO. It's also better than the Oppo in terms of audio.

If you look at the synthetic test results, you'll notice that the JVC is the only player (including the Oppo) to past every deinterlacing test. The JVC can be had for $150 (and it's just as fast or faster than the Oppo. The only possible negative is audio, but if you mainly use it for Blu Ray, I doubt you'd even notice).

Here's the table for your reference:



Player	Price	Speed	Build Quality	DVD	Audio	Feature	Style	Value	Overall
Oppo BDP83	$500 10	9	10	9	7	8	10	9
Pioneer BDP-51FD	$200 5	10	9	10	5	9	10	8.29
Denon DBP2010CI	$500 7	8	9.5	10	7	9	7.5	8.29
Marantz BD7004	$600 7	8	9.5	10	7	9.5	7	8.28
PS3 Slim	$300 8	8	7	5.5	10	9	10	8.21
Pioneer BDP-320	$300 7	8	9	9	7	8	9	8.14
LG BD390	$300 10	7	7	7.5	10	7	8	8.07
Samsung BDP 3600	$300 10	6	7	7.5	10	7	8	7.93
Samsung BD P2550	NA	7	6	9	7.5	9	6	9	7.64
JVC XV-BP1	$200 10	6	8	6	7	6	9	7.43
Marantz 5004	$500 7	8	7	7	7	9.5	6	7.36
Denon DVD 2500BTC	$300 6	10	7	5	5	9	9	7.29
Denon BDP1610	$400 7	8	7	7	7	9	6	7.29
LG BD370	$200 10	5	6	6	9	6	7	7
LG BH200	NA	6	7	9	5	5	7	9	6.86
Panasonic DMP BD55K	NA	6	6	7	7.5	7	6	8	6.79
Harman Kardon BDP-1	$400 6	7	7	6	7	9	5	6.71
Onkyo DV BD507	$400 7	6	7	6	7	8	5	6.57
Onkyo DV BD606	$300 6	7	7	5	5	8	5	6.14
Denon DVD-1800BD	$300 6	7	7	5	5	8	5	6.14
Pioneer BDP-120	$200 7	5	5	6	7	7	5	6
Sherwood BDP 5003	$125 6	5	5	5	5	7	5	5.43


And here's the synthetic test results:



Test	Pio 320	Oppo	Panny 55	Pio 120	JVC	LG 390	onkyo	lg bh200	denon 1800	LG 370	denon 2500	HK BDP1	Sherwood 5003	sammy 3600	denon 2010	denon 1610	Onkyo 507	PS3 Slim	Marantz5004	Marantz 7004
2:02	pass	pass*	pass	pass	pass	fail	fail	pass*	fail	fail	fail	fail	fail	fail	pass	pass	pass	fail	pass	pass
2:2:2:4	fail	pass	fail	fail	pass	pass	fail	pass*	fail	pass	fail	pass	pass*	fail	fail	fail	fail	pass*	fail	fail
2:3:2:3 (PF-T)	pass	marginal	pass	pass	pass	pass*	pass	pass	pass*	pass	pass	pass	pass	pass	pass*	pass*	Pass	pass*	pass*	pass*
2:3:2:3	pass*	pass	marginal	fail	pass	pass*	pass	pass	pass	pass	pass*	pass*	pass*	pass	pass	pass	pass	pass*	pass*	pass
2:3:3:2	marg	pass	fail	fail	pass	fail	fail	pass*	fail	pass*	fail	pass*	pass*	fail	fail	fail	fail	pass	fail	fail
3:2:3:2:2	fail	pass	fail	fail	pass	fail	fail	pass*	fail	fail	fail	fail	fail	fail	fail	fail	fail	fail	fail	fail
5:05	marginal	pass	fail	fail	pass	fail	fail	pass	marginal	fail	marginal	fail	fail	fail	marginal	marginal	marginal	fail	marginal	marginal
6:04	fail	pass	fail	fail	pass	fail	fail	pass*	fail	fail	fail	fail	fail	marginal	marginal	fail	fail	fail	marginal	marginal
8:7:8:7	marginal	pass	fail	fail	pass	fail	marginal	pass*	maginal	fail	marginal	fail	fail	marginal	marginal	marginal	fail	fail	marginal	marginal
24p - pass	pass	pass	pass	pass	pass	pass	pass	pass	pass	pass	pass	pass	pass	pass	pass	pass	pass	pass	pass	pass
Time-adjusted	fail	pass	fail	pass	fail	fail	marginal	marginal	marginal	fail	fail	fail	marginal	fail	fail	fail	Fail	fail	fail	fail

So, yes, for starters everyone should do their homework and not just read some of the glossy reviews that focus on the player as a whole. They should look at what their needs are and find the appropriate player. You'll find that very few people need all that the Oppo offers and whatever their particular needs are, there's usually a better and cheaper alternative.

And thank you for respecting my opinion (which is correct). I spend a lot of time studying this type of information to provide people with unbiased information. I'm not just an a/v fanboy (other than D*).


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## logandraven

Hi Spartan. Let me dive right in. 

First, I’ve been perusing AVS for more than a decade so am well acquainted with the wealth of information provide there. While I am certainly appreciative of the time and effort you went to in posting that information, it is but ONE source and needs to be considered amongst other equal, if not better sources of information. 

Second, you are wrong to suggest that the Oppo “wins those awards and gets the praises, mostly for ALL it can do.” No, it gets all those awards and praises because of a combination of solid customer service, the rich feature set of the unit, and the fact that it does EVERYTHING extremely well. 

Third, your post did nothing but essentially substantiate what I said in my last post… that while one player can get one aspect right, and yet another player can get a different aspect right, that NONE provide the across the board quality and numbers that the Oppo does. 

Fourth, comparing reviews of blu ray players that are separated by more than a year borders upon negligent. Honestly man that’s just silly. Plus, after more than 18 months on the market the Pioneer system is STILL $280. 

Fifth, you are having to concede points here. Initially you stated that the Oppo was only worth it if you play non-blu ray discs, i.e. use it for audio purposes. But you also initially stated that for blu ray and standard DVD play that it wasn’t worth it. Now in your most recent post you had to concede that it’s worth the price if you play lots of standard DVDs. Why? Because the Oppo does it better than anyone else.

And seriously who doesn’t play a lot of standard DVDs!? Most people in these type of forums have entire libraries of DVDs! So not only is it the best player for audio purposes, but it’s also the best for upscaling standard DVDs. That makes the price worth it. It also affords people the opportunity to rid themselves of inferior equipment cluttering the home theater by allowing them to use one machine that does everything well. 

Lastly, unless you’re a professional then you’re a fanboy like everyone else. There’s no shame in that. Also, I’m pretty sure there’s a lot of folks, this one included, that does their research too. In the spirit of providing the reader with all the information they need I’ve taken the liberty to cite about half of the Oppo reviews available on such key issues as loading, video rendering, upscaling, and audio quality. Aside from that I guess we’ll have to respectfully have to agree to disagree. Take care. J


Sorry the forum won’t allow me to post urls so the site name only will be posted. 

hometheatermag
I put the Oppo through our full complement of HD and SD video tests, and the player passed with flying colors. Its SD de-interlacing and scaling was as good as anything I’ve seen, and its HD video processing is nearly without equal.

The BDP-83 turns on immediately, and its tray response is excellent. Load times are on par with the PlayStation 3, which has been the speed king from the beginning. This is the level of performance we should see from players across the board. 

The BDP-83’s everyday use is without a doubt the most refreshing experience I’ve had with a standalone Blu-ray player. I’ve been quite impressed by specific areas from a wide range of manufacturers, but up until now, no one has made a one-stop shop for great performance across the board. The BDP-83 is just that. 

The BDP-83’s upconversion is second to none. While the overall quality of DVD is still a distant second to Blu-ray, I was surprised by how good this player made DVDs look. 

Its video performance with Blu-ray and DVD playback is as good as anything I’ve used, and nothing beats its source-direct HD performance. When you couple this level of performance with its general operation, you have a machine that stands out among its peers. In fact, aside from the obvious investments in build quality, many enthusiasts will be hard-pressed to find any real performance benefit in typical home theater applications from the current crop of price-no-object players on the market.

The BDP-83 is a reference video and audio transport regardless of the format you throw at it. But it’s also the most user-friendly standalone player I’ve had the pleasure of using. While some players provide outstanding performance in certain areas, the Oppo never hiccupped in any department. It’s truly the most complete package of a Blu-ray player I’ve yet reviewed. It’s now my standing reference as a source component and one that should be on your short list, regardless of your budget.


homemediamagazine
Home Theater Forum gave the player its highest recommendation, CNET called its image quality “outstanding,” and Ultimate AV Mag named it the “ultimate Blu-ray player.” Kevin Collins, director of Microsoft Corp.’s custom installation channel, and former Microsoft evangelist for HD DVD, said the BDP-83 is the best Blu-ray player he’s ever used. Bill Hunt, editor of TheDigitalBits.com, was even more enthusiastic with his praise, saying, “It’s the aficionados’ top player. I love the Oppo.”




videofilmtechnology.suite101
What comes to mind in using the BDP-83 is how effortless it is to use. It’s also very quick.
The BDP-83 is commendable in making DVDs look good, even if they’re not of the best quality. DVD isn’t high definition, but the BDP-83 squeezes every last digital ounce out of them. Older DVD titles with previous generation transfers will look okay, but new DVDs will look very good on the Oppo.

The Oppo BDP-83 is simply a joy to use. It’s as speedy as the Playstation 3, packs incredible picture quality, sounds like a high end audio player, and looks great. For just a little cash, the Oppo offers a lot of flexibility for the money.


reviews.cnet
Calling the BDP-83 a Blu-ray player would be missing the point. Yes, it handles Blu-ray movies, but it's also essentially a universal disc player that is able to play back CD, DVD-Audio, SACD, and DVD discs. (Sorry HD DVD fans.) While DVD-Audio and SACD are niche formats that are nearly dead, many audiophiles still have sizable collections that they enjoy. And if you have some PAL-encoded DVDs lying around, the BDP-83 can play them back adeptly. It's nice having a single player that can handle pretty much every disc in your collection.
We began by testing the BDP-83 on a variety of test discs, and first up was Silicon Optix's HQV test suite on Blu-ray. The Oppo didn't have trouble with anything we threw at it. 
The bottom line is that the BDP-83 has the best Blu-ray image quality out of any player we've tested, handling even uncommon program material with plenty of finesse. 
Aside from video quality, we also tested the BDP-83's operational and disc-loading speed. The BDP-83 was a standout performer in this regard, besting nearly all other players in loading Java-heavy…
We put it through the standard HQV test disc on DVD and the Oppo started off acing the initial resolution pattern with no image stability on the screen…The detail test with marble steps looked especially sharp and when we flipped between the PS3 Slim and the Oppo BDP-83 we could clearly see more detail with the Oppo.
While we're somewhat tentative on raving about the BDP-83's Blu-ray image quality, our observations about its DVD image quality come with no such reservations; it's significantly better than the DVD processing in competing standalone Blu-rays players, although only videophiles will notice the difference. If you still plan on playing plenty of standard DVDs and take image quality seriously, the BDP-83 is the player for you. 

Hometheaterreview
Performance-wise, I have no criticisms of the Oppo BDP-83, which is an amazing statement, considering the player's low price and ambitious list of performance features. Yes, the audiophile in me would have liked to see the inclusion of better analog audio circuits, but I realize that this player was not designed to be a cost-no-object, reference-grade audio source. While preparing this article, I did see that there are options for those seeking such an audiophile player. Companies like Modwright are now offering upgrades, which might be interesting to explore. I have to keep reminding myself that the player is $499 when comparing it to players more than 10 times its retail price tag.
The Oppo BDP-83's VRS video processing may make me change my habits. Even the best video processors are not going to make standard definition the equal of well-transferred high definition, but the BDP-83 sure can narrow the chasm between the two. The audio through the HDMI output was solid and as well-defined as on any other DVD player I have auditioned in recent memory. The video was even better. I normally prefer the Gennum VXP video processor in my projector to those in the source components that come through my system, but the Oppo's VRS held its own. The Oppo did a great job with the difficult-to-render shadow details…
I could discern a small difference in video quality between the BDP-83 and the Sony Playstation 3 I had been using as my Blu-ray player and liked the BDP-83's image better. Both players did a good job with video detail, but I found the colors to be more natural with the Oppo. The Oppo is also the first Blu-ray player I have had in my system that had a loading speed comparable to the PS3. Finally, the Oppo's control and connectivity options were much better than those of the PS3. 

The BDP-83's analog audio outputs are extremely good, pushing the border of reference grade at an entry-level price. Its multi-channel digital audio outputs are just as good as those of any other player or transport I have had in my system. As for video, the Oppo's performance is phenomenal. Other, more expensive players have equaled the Oppo's video performance in my system, but none have surpassed it.

audaud
The most astounding improvement was one I’ve seen and heard many users complaining about in regard to their earlier Blu-ray players: The discs loaded completely in under 30 seconds!

The same image when paused as a still on the BDP-83 had improved resolution thruout the entire image. Rooftop signs where the letters were a big fuzzy on the Pioneer became much clearer on the BDP-83. (Note the reviewer was testing the BDP-83 against a variety of other quality players, and was not making generalized comparisons to lower or equally priced systems).

I think Oppo has a serious winner here, at the right price too. It’s something like the days of the universal record changers which handled 78s, 45s, 33 1/3s and 16 r.p.m. discs. But there don’t seem to be corners cut with any of the formats. There’s nothing else quite like the BDP-83 right now, and it’s good that the minority users (compared to Blu-ray) of both SACD and DVD-Audio formats have not been ignored in the process. Whether or not the idea of audio-only Blu-rays ever gets off the ground, we’ll have proper playback of our collection of hi-res SACDs and DVD-As.

Finally let me plug the wonderful and helpful customer service Oppo provides. Whatever your question or problem they will quickly respond and assist you, totally unlike most manufacturers.




enjoythemusic
On the video side, to get the less important features for audiophiles out of the way, the unit uses the Video Reference System by Anchor Bay, one of the two best out there for artifact-free video. It will do up to 1080P output at 50 or 60 FPS. and will also output 24 FPS film standard pictures, and even supports 36 bit Deep Color, which is still not available on Blu-ray discs. It is also one of the few units that totally supports the BD-Live, Profile 2.0 standard with its built-in 1 GB memory. It also has the ability to play back both NTSC and PAL discs on either type of television for those of us who get PAL type concert discs from Europe and Japan. I know of no other unit at close to its price range that will do all of this for Blu-ray.

Video quality is excellent with superb color. One can even correct all video parameters through a setting screen, except for Gamma. 1080P 24FPS movies, especially those from Blu-ray discs from IMEX films give the best video reproduction I've seen in my system compared to my four other high definition sources. Standard DVD decoding and upsampling is at least on a par with the best Blu-ray units I've seen. 

The 7.1 analog outputs on my still not completely broken in unit is excellent, matching the sound I've been getting from my $6000 list Esoteric DV-60 DVD/SACD player. Although I could not do instant evaluation of both, having only one multi-channel input on my pre-pro, the OPPO and Esoteric units were so close as to be indistinguishable to me. Interestingly, stereo CDs played through the 2.0 analog outputs allowed more ambiance information to come through than the 7.1 outputs. It turns out that the unit has separate DACs for the 2.0 and multi-channel analog outputs. Who says that all DACs sound alike?

Now for the most unbelievable part! The probable list price is going to be below $500, 9 times less than the only other Universal player coming out in the near future, the Denon A1-UDCI. I hope to get one in for evaluation to see if the major price difference brings any value compared the OPPO. "Such A Steal" for those of us with an HDMI 1.3a pre-pro. 


stereophile
OPPO’s all-singing, all-dancing universal Blu-ray player is not only more capable than other models, it works better and sounds better, too. 

The stereo and multichannel analog outputs have been upgraded from earlier Oppo models, and sound it. The analog output of the DV-980H was usable, but not in the class of the comparably featured Pioneer DV-58. The BDP-83 is in that class. Compared to the DV-980, the BDP-83 didn't sound thin but widely balanced, with excellent clarity in the high frequencies. 

As a Blu-ray player, the BDP-83 was a delight.2 Setup was a breeze, disc-load times are greatly improved, and the new remote makes navigating the menus almost not a chore.

That I can comfortably alternate this new player with dedicated players costing three to seven times as much makes the Oppo BDP-83 almost self-recommending.



laaudiofile
The 1080p picture produced by the BDP-83 was reference quality with smooth gradations and excellent resolution. Colors were rich and skin tones took on a natural appearance.

However, DVD scaled nicely on this player and produced an impressive picture.

Sonically, this player produced excellent audio quality whether we used Denon's DSD decoder or the player's built-in decoder with the PCM conversion. It was refreshing to have this single player support so many different formats and it greatly simplified our set up.

Video performance was excellent with a wide range of test material and real-world content.
Multi-channel audio sounded fantastic on this player and allowed us to take full advantage of the decoding in our Denon AVR-5308CI receiver.
We have now officially made the OPPO BDP-83 our reference Blu-ray player and the choice was not difficult.



Avguide
Consider this Blu-ray player if: you want an exceptionally versatile and affordable player that taps the full video and audio capabilities of the Blu-ray format, that provides a strong onboard video processor for playing (and upscaling) DVDs, and that beautifully handles CD, HDCD, SACD, and DVD-Audio discs, consistently delivering a rich, smooth, natural sound.
Look Further if: you were hoping for a low-cost player that could magically trump the sound quality of great audio players in the $2k-4k range; Oppo’s BDP-83 is plenty good, but not that good. But consider this: the BDP-83’s video performance is essentially faultless, while its sound quality surpasses (by a wide margin) anything else I’ve heard at or near its price.


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## spartanstew

logandraven said:


> Second, you are wrong to suggest that the Oppo "wins those awards and gets the praises, mostly for ALL it can do." No, it gets all those awards and praises because of a combination of solid customer service, the rich feature set of the unit, and the fact that it does EVERYTHING extremely well.


Yes, customer service is great - I don't care about that. Yes, it has a rich feature set - Many don't care about that. Yes, it does everything well - that was my original point. Most people don't need all those bells and whistles and the ability to play mutliple formats. I'm glad we agree here.



logandraven said:


> Third, your post did nothing but essentially substantiate what I said in my last post&#8230; that while one player can get one aspect right, and yet another player can get a different aspect right, that NONE provide the across the board quality and numbers that the Oppo does.


Good, we agree again. Not many people need all those things so it doesn't mater if the Oppo does them all well. As I said, determine what you need out of a player and find one that does it well.



logandraven said:


> Fourth, comparing reviews of blu ray players that are separated by more than a year borders upon negligent. Honestly man that's just silly. Plus, after more than 18 months on the market the Pioneer system is STILL $280.


What? You yourself compared it to the PS3 in some respects in the other thread. How long has the PS3 been out? When a player was made has nothing to do with it. Are you saying that players coming out now are better than the Oppo that came out nearly a year ago? At what point in time will the Oppo cease to be good in your opinion? 9 months? 12 months? 18 months?



logandraven said:


> Fifth, you are having to concede points here. Initially you stated that the Oppo was only worth it if you play non-blu ray discs, i.e. use it for audio purposes. But you also initially stated that for blu ray and standard DVD play that it wasn't worth it. Now in your most recent post you had to concede that it's worth the price if you play lots of standard DVDs. Why? Because the Oppo does it better than anyone else.
> 
> And seriously who doesn't play a lot of standard DVDs!? Most people in these type of forums have entire libraries of DVDs! So not only is it the best player for audio purposes, but it's also the best for upscaling standard DVDs. That makes the price worth it. It also affords people the opportunity to rid themselves of inferior equipment cluttering the home theater by allowing them to use one machine that does everything well.


In real world situations with real world movie watching taking place in over 90% of living rooms across the country, the difference in upscaling of the Oppo will not matter. On certain tests and in certain conditions there's a difference. I've seen the difference first hand. But that difference is rarely noticeable in anything but side by side comparisons. If you came over to my house and watched a SD DVD in my theater and you didn't know which BD player I was using, you would not be able to tell. Period. That's the bottom line. you make it sound like the difference is night and day. it's not. And to get that minute difference in upscaling is not worth the extra $300+ that the Oppo will set people back. Their money is much better spent elsewhere. That's the point. For the vast majority (yes, vast) of users, the Oppo is way more than they need and a waste of money. Going back to your car analogy, it's no different than someone buying that Ferari to drive to work and back every day in rush hour. Is the Ferari great? You bet. Does it win awards? You bet. But it's not needed for the average commuter.


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## logandraven

spartanstew said:


> In real world situations with real world movie watching taking place in over 90% of living rooms across the country, the difference in upscaling of the Oppo will not matter. On certain tests and in certain conditions there's a difference. I've seen the difference first hand. But that difference is rarely noticeable in anything but side by side comparisons. If you came over to my house and watched a SD DVD in my theater and you didn't know which BD player I was using, you would not be able to tell. Period. That's the bottom line. you make it sound like the difference is night and day. it's not. And to get that minute difference in upscaling is not worth the extra $300+ that the Oppo will set people back. Their money is much better spent elsewhere. That's the point. For the vast majority (yes, vast) of users, the Oppo is way more than they need and a waste of money. Going back to your car analogy, it's no different than someone buying that Ferari to drive to work and back every day in rush hour. Is the Ferari great? You bet. Does it win awards? You bet. But it's not needed for the average commuter.


Feature sets, performance, ease of use, and customer service matter to most people when it comes to CE products. A combination of those four factors are what determine the success or failure of any given product, and are the difference in customer satisfaction and customer dissatisfaction.

People want more capabilities not less. I don't care if we're talking about cell phones, PCs, or a microwave, people want the Swiss army knife version of whatever product they are purchasing, and they want it at a good price. The same is true for most people as it applies to blu ray players, and that is demonstrated by the significant increase in feature sets and capabilities over the past two years.

But what has become the ridiculous aspect of this discussion (on both boards I might add), is your attempt to arbitrarily (and wrongly) minimize what features are important to most consumers, and your total disregard for what is clearly being put forth as important to the reviewers themselves.

In reading the reviews of any blu ray player, the Oppo included, there are seven core aspects that every reviewer focuses upon. Load times, Blu Ray video quality, ease of use and set-up, standard DVD upscaling, audio quality, and hardware and software feature sets. The conflict here comes in your posts. The reviewers, and indeed the buying public, find those seven things to be important. By contrast you have essentially said that most people don't need or won't notice any difference in six of the seven core aspects. That is pure nonsense.

There *are* discernible differences in each of those 7 core aspects that reviewers key upon, and that is what separates the good, from the very good, from the best. That's why most of the reviewers put the Oppo forth as a superb value, and as giving the most bang for the buck. Interesting how the professionals all agree on this point and you do not.

What becomes tiresome is the tit for tat. I bring up load times, and you put forth that other players are as fast. That's fine, except for the fact that multiple reviewers put it forth as the fastest of any player that they've tested, and even outperforming what was widely considered to be the fastest previously. But what gets lost in that tit for tat is that the players that you put forth as faster or as fast as the Oppo (which is dishonest in and of itself) is that they also aren't as good as the Oppo in the other 6 categories that matter. The same holds true for your hair splitting on the other 6 categories as well. There are individual systems that may do one or two things well, but none match the Oppo across all 7 critera.

As I've said now numerous times, if people don't want to spend $500, or don't have $500 to spend, then by all means pick up a cheaper system that gives them most of what they want and need. All I have said is that they need to understand that what they are buying are lesser systems. And despite the fact that you might disagree on that point, all of the reviews would say otherwise. At the same time if one wanted NetFlix, Pandora, YouTube etc etc I would suggest they go with another system, even if that system won't be as good with regard to most of the other areas deemed as important by most reviewers.

Lastly, your comment that most people won't notice a discernible difference with regard to standard DVD upscaling is just flat erroneous. I happened to have a JVC system that -was- considered one of the better upscaling players, and the difference between it and the Oppo was very evident. Night and day? No, but clearly evident - absolutely. This is also another area in which the vast majority of reviewers would disagree with you.

To use another analogy - There is a reason why the iPod is widely considered the best. It has a robust feature set, is easy to use, is made well, tends to render audio and video well etc. It wins awards because of that robust feature set, and because it actually performs well. Do people need it to listen to music? No, and someone like you would say that the average consumer doesn't need it to listen to music. They could of course go to Big Lots and buy whatever is on sale and listen to their MP3s. But if people want the best across the board, and want what caters to both their wants and needs, then they'll get the iPod. The same is true for the Oppo. Take care. J


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## spartanstew

This will be my last post on the subject. As I've already said, the Oppo is the best Blu Ray player on the market for many reasons. However, most people (yes, most people) either don't need all of it's features OR the difference in those features is not clearly evident among some contenders. 
Unless someone needs to play the other formats that the Oppo can handle (DVD-A, for example), there's no need to spend $500 on it. You can get a number of other players that play BD's equally as well and are very close in regards to DVD for much, much cheaper (under $200). That's the bottom line. If you think the Oppo is worth it, great. It's just not worth it for most (yes, most).



logandraven said:


> To use another analogy - There is a reason why the iPod is widely considered the best. It has a robust feature set, is easy to use, is made well, tends to render audio and video well etc. It wins awards because of that robust feature set, and because it actually performs well. Do people need it to listen to music? No, and someone like you would say that the average consumer doesn't need it to listen to music.


 I thought the ipod was for listening to music? If people don't need it to listen to music, what do they need it for? Your logic is baffling.


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## Cholly

Not to stir the pot, but the new issue of Consumer Reports arrived today. In it, they rated Blu-ray players. Both the Oppo and Panasonic DMP-BD80 received scores of 93 out of a possible 100 (Excellent). The report rightly indicated that the Oppo can play SACD's and natively handles BD-Live, while the Panasonic requires an SD card to support BD-Live. 

For what it's worth: as you can see by my signature, I have a Panasonic DMP-BD605 player, (a DMP-BD60 with included HDMI cable, which is the little brother to the DMP-BD80). It feeds my 55 inch Sony RPTV by way of my Yamaha RX-V663 receiver. My speakers are all Paradigms. My DMP-BD605 cost me $229. The difference in cost between it and the Oppo would be well spent in upgrading speakers. 
It's all well and good to cite many reviewers regarding the Oppo, but in home use for all but the most technically advanced and financially well off user, the Panasonic DMP-BD80 (or 60), the LG BD390 or the Samsung BD-P4600 are all excellent choices in the $250-$350 price range.


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## logandraven

spartanstew said:


> That's the bottom line. If you think the Oppo is worth it, great. It's just not worth it for most (yes, most).
> 
> I thought the ipod was for listening to music? If people don't need it to listen to music, what do they need it for? Your logic is baffling.


It is worth it for most. It's not worth it for a few who actually delude themselves into thinking that there are not noticeable differences between players in such areas as blu ray playback, standard DVD upscaling, and audio. Oh btw none of our conversations have even touched upon the connectivity of the Oppo which tends also tends to be top notch.

The iPod analogy was valid. While you admit that the Oppo is the best player out there you minimize or disregard its robust feature set and performance due to your myopic viewpoint that the average user doesn't need those features, and will use their blu ray player to play only blu ray movies.

Much like the Oppo it provides a great feature set. It has an excellent display, plays music extremely well, plays videos, and even has a web browser. And it's not just that it provides a better feature set than the competition, just like the Oppo it outperforms it's competition almost across the board (although the people at Zune might dispute that lol). Also, much like the Oppo which costs about 20% more than most of its closest competition, the iPod ranges from 66% more expensive than more basic models, to about 10-15% higher than its closest competition.

Given your "reasoning" in earlier posts you would say that "most people" don't need all that the iPod offers to listen to MP3s, that the iPod is not a value,and that they should buy a cheaper unit to listen to one's music. My point is that you'd be dead wrong by any comparison. "Most people" want robust feature sets and want the best. Most people care about performance across the board, and aren't overly interested in products that only get some of the basics right. And in the end the people themselves demonstrate that by how they spend their money...which is exactly why the iPod is so incredibly popular.

The real bottom line - you get what you pay for. Nice chatting with you. J


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## logandraven

Cholly said:


> Not to stir the pot, but the new issue of Consumer Reports arrived today. In it, they rated Blu-ray players. Both the Oppo and Panasonic DMP-BD80 received scores of 93 out of a possible 100 (Excellent). The report rightly indicated that the Oppo can play SACD's and natively handles BD-Live, while the Panasonic requires an SD card to support BD-Live.
> 
> It's all well and good to cite many reviewers regarding the Oppo, but in home use for all but the most technically advanced and financially well off user, the Panasonic DMP-BD80 (or 60), the LG BD390 or the Samsung BD-P4600 are all excellent choices in the $250-$350 price range.


Hi Charlie. Believe it or not I do like Consumer Reports as a good source for reviews, though generally speaking I don't use them for electronics, but more for appliances. Even so, I have seen several reviews for the DMP-BD80, and it has scored pretty well though the reviews have been varied quite a bit and are not as consistent as the Oppo.

I'm pretty sure that a lot of people are unaware that the Oppo also comes with a HDMI cable, and two different discs to set up both audio and video, and on-board memory. Those are very nice additions, that should factor into these discussions on price, but typically don't. It's also important to note that between those discs, and a very user friendly manual (which as a Yamaha owner you know how complicated they can be lol), that people can accomplish what some would consider more technically proficient tasks more easily than they could imagine. BTW I did at both the LG and the Samsung in my research. I would still recommend them for people wanting some of the streaming options out there.

I do want to add that I'm not one of those "financially well off" people. LOL I'm a single dad who works full time and am attending school full time while finishing up my first Masters. Time and money tend to be two things that I am in short supply of : )

One last thing - I happen to agree that one could use the money saved by going with a cheaper, less capable system, to upgrade other aspects of their home theater setup. But one could also look at their purchase of the Oppo as upgrading as well. For example I no longer use my old cd player because the Oppo is simply that good at playing audio discs. Similarly, because it has on board decoding one can also rid themselves of other dated components. In the end a lot depends upon what it is one wants to upgrade. Take care. J


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