# Why You Should Wait for the HR20



## cjr (Jul 13, 2006)

I've had the HR20 for over 2 weeks now and I have one word for those anxiously awaiting its arrival, WAIT.

Right now there is really no reason owners of the HR10 should upgrade. Yes, the HR20 is faster, it has some nice interactive capabilities, and you can get locals in MPEG4 but that is about it. With the HR10 you can get locals via OTA or in MPEG2 and you can get your RSNs in HD (I watched the Utah/UCLA game Saturday on FSN Prime HD with no problem).

What it doesn’t have makes it a downgrade to the HR10 as it currently stands:
1.	Stability – It has several bugs that make it sometime freezes during playback. It did this the first week and it continues to do this after Oxbe release. This will eventually be fixed but everyone has got to understand that this box is still clearly under development.
2.	Skip to Tick – Really doesn’t work despite what some have said.
3.	OTA – Yes, 1 or maybe 2 tuners are coming sometime in the future, but right now there are 0.
4.	Dual Buffers – A box killer, especially during football season, here for those who want to watch multiple sporting events at the same time (i.e. college football and the Ticket). You can try and watch 2 games at once on the HR20 by recording both games and jumping back and forth and rewinding but looking in on a third/fourth/etc. game is basically impossible. Tried watching the ND/GTech, USC/Ark, and the UCLA/Utah games at the same time. Impossible with the HR20. I gave up after about 10 minutes and went back to the HR10 where I could swap tuners, rewind and FF to catch up, and every once in awhile (usually during commercials) change channels and look in on the other games without really missing anything on the two games I was really interested in. Dual buffers allow this, a single buffer doesn’t. And this was only the first Saturday of college games when there were a limited number of games on.

That being said, the HR20 looks like a nice box with plenty of potential, just not a must have right now. I’m going to patiently wait for the upgrades/fixes to HR20 and not ***** about it since the box was effectively free. Then I'm going out to see if I can pick up a couple more HR10s for less than $100. That HR10 doesn’t look that bad anymore even without 6.3. Until there is significantly more programming in MPEG4 there is no reason to get the HR20. So WAIT.


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## stim (Nov 16, 2005)

I agree. I am going to be waiting until they work out some of the reported bugs before I dump the HR10. I can live with some minor problems, but I've seen some reports of losing recordings! That is just unacceptable IMO!!!


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## ratchytron2k (Aug 3, 2006)

cjr said:


> With the HR10 you can get locals via OTA or in MPEG2 and you can get your RSNs in HD (I watched the Utah/UCLA game Saturday on FSN Prime HD with no problem).


I also live in Los Angeles, but I do NOT get my RSN's in HD (Fox Sports West and Fox Sports Prime) or at least I can't find them. They are supposed to be on ch's. 96 & 97, however on my HR10 ch. 96 not there at all and ch. 97 says TBA all the time - also I was told all RSN's are in MPEG4 which the HR10-250 can not decode - I would love to know how or where you get them on yor HR10?

Thanks,
T


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## directvfreak (Feb 1, 2006)

cjr said:


> 3.	OTA - Yes, 1 or maybe 2 tuners are coming sometime in the future, but right now there are 0.


The tuners aren't comming in the future, they are already in there! They are just not active and I know they will become active.


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## sealslayer (Aug 29, 2006)

For some of us, the only way to receive HD stations is via satelite. OTA is basically impossible in my current location. My only purpose in getting the HR20 is to get the HD locals from directv. I'm planning on keeping my HR10 and use the HR20 for HD locals. If I trusted the box more, I would probably replace my HR 10 with the HR 20.


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## laxcoach (Dec 7, 2005)

HR10's OTA tuner is absolute junk. I live less than 5 miles from all of my towers and I can't pick up a reliable signal. My new TVs can pickup half of them without a freaking antenna!


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## thebarge (Aug 28, 2006)

cjr said:


> 1.	Stability - It has several bugs that make it sometime freezes during playback. It did this the first week and it continues to do this after Oxbe release. This will eventually be fixed but everyone has got to understand that this box is still clearly under development.


That's definitely a killer. I'm sure they'll get things worked out over time.


cjr said:


> 2.	Skip to Tick - Really doesn't work despite what some have said.


I use this feature all the time, but could live without it temporarily.


cjr said:


> 3.	OTA - Yes, 1 or maybe 2 tuners are coming sometime in the future, but right now there are 0.


I spent the weekend installing a Channel Master 4228 in my attic to get locals OTA. I'm sure they'll be enabling the OTA tuners in the next month or so though.


cjr said:


> 4.	Dual Buffers - A box killer, especially during football season, here for those who want to watch multiple sporting events at the same time (i.e. college football and the Ticket).


Definitely a killer. This is a feature I use all the time that I can't live without.

This is another problem I have with the HR20:

5. Showed my wife screenshots of the HR20 interface and her response was "Ugh. I hate it."

I actually would like to upgrade to the HR20, but these reasons just kill it for me. If they manage to fix reasons #1-4, I may could get past reason #5.


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## bpratt (Nov 24, 2005)

laxcoach said:


> HR10's OTA tuner is absolute junk. I live less than 5 miles from all of my towers and I can't pick up a reliable signal. My new TVs can pickup half of them without a freaking antenna!


I would have to disagree with that statement. I live over 20 miles from the digital towers and pick up all OTA HD channels with a signal strength of 92-95. I have seen several threads that reference problems with the cables inside the HR10-250 running to the OTA tuners from the internal splitter not being seated properly. Have you removed the top on your HR10-250 and re-seated the OTA cables?


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## finaldiet (Jun 13, 2006)

laxcoach said:


> HR10's OTA tuner is absolute junk. I live less than 5 miles from all of my towers and I can't pick up a reliable signal. My new TVs can pickup half of them without a freaking antenna!


Did you go into your system menu and turn it on for both sat./ota? Also, maybe your too close to towers and signal too strong. I live 30 mi. SW of Chi-town and I get signal strenght ofd 90-95 on an old antenna I found laying on a box in my attic. Its still laying on the box, afraid to move it!


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

ratchytron2k said:


> I also live in Los Angeles, but I do NOT get my RSN's in HD (Fox Sports West and Fox Sports Prime) or at least I can't find them. They are supposed to be on ch's. 96 & 97, however on my HR10 ch. 96 not there at all and ch. 97 says TBA all the time - also I was told all RSN's are in MPEG4 which the HR10-250 can not decode - I would love to know how or where you get them on yor HR10?
> 
> Thanks,
> T


You don't. As you were told, the RSN's in HD are in MPEG4. Your HR10 cannot decode them. The only way to get them are to upgrade to the H20 (non DVR) or the HR20.


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## Car1181 (Mar 30, 2006)

cjr said:


> 4.	Dual Buffers - A box killer, especially during football season, here for those who want to watch multiple sporting events at the same time (i.e. college football and the Ticket). You can try and watch 2 games at once on the HR20 by recording both games and jumping back and forth and rewinding but looking in on a third/fourth/etc. game is basically impossible. Tried watching the ND/GTech, USC/Ark, and the UCLA/Utah games at the same time. Impossible with the HR20. I gave up after about 10 minutes and went back to the HR10 where I could swap tuners, rewind and FF to catch up, and every once in awhile (usually during commercials) change channels and look in on the other games without really missing anything on the two games I was really interested in. Dual buffers allow this, a single buffer doesn't. And this was only the first Saturday of college games when there were a limited number of games on.


Any word if there will be an upgrade in the future on this? For me, dual buffers are a must for ballgames.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

bpratt said:


> I would have to disagree with that statement. I live over 20 miles from the digital towers and pick up all OTA HD channels with a signal strength of 92-95. I have seen several threads that reference problems with the cables inside the HR10-250 running to the OTA tuners from the internal splitter not being seated properly. Have you removed the top on your HR10-250 and re-seated the OTA cables?


I can get a station 73 miles away from me with the HR10 with a signal of 80-97.

Two stations 7-8 miles away from me running at low power... 60-70 signal with dropouts (especially at night) during the Summer, and one with a signal of 70-90 with occasional dropouts during the Summer.

~Alan


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## greywolf (Jul 13, 2005)

The HR10 can get overpowered from being too close. Many have had success with a Radio Shack inline variable attenuator. It can be set to where the signal comes in at a usable level.


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## Slyster (May 17, 2005)

DUAL BUFFERS (edit: sorry.. not tuners):

I don't get the big deal... Can't people just record one show (or game) and watch the other live? Then watch the other when it's done? Or just record both?


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## greywolf (Jul 13, 2005)

You cannot record one show and watch another live or record two shows at the same time without dual tuners.


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## ktabel01 (Aug 19, 2006)

dual buffers is different from dual tuners, correct?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

ktabel01 said:


> dual buffers is different from dual tuners, correct?


Yes.

Dual Buffers refers to the ability to have TWO continues buffering streams that you can access on both Tuners

Dual Tuners is basically the unit is capable of accessing TWO different source channels at the same time.


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## cjr (Jul 13, 2006)

ratchytron2k said:


> I also live in Los Angeles, but I do NOT get my RSN's in HD (Fox Sports West and Fox Sports Prime) or at least I can't find them. They are supposed to be on ch's. 96 & 97, however on my HR10 ch. 96 not there at all and ch. 97 says TBA all the time - also I was told all RSN's are in MPEG4 which the HR10-250 can not decode - I would love to know how or where you get them on yor HR10?
> 
> Thanks,
> T


I believe the UCLA/Utah game was on 97 on FSN Prime in HD. Like many out there, I thought that FSN West and FSN Prime were only MPEG4 unitl Saturday. I never looked for them until trying to do a multiple game watch on the HR20 when I gave up went back to the old HR10 and there it was.

Just because guide shows TBA now doesn't mean something won't be there a few hours from now. Going to try and watch the Dodger and Angel games later tonight. They don't show up on the HR20 or the HR10 right now but who knows. A potential MPEG4 conspiracy brewing.

The mystery of D*...


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## DCSholtis (Aug 7, 2002)

cjr said:


> I believe the UCLA/Utah game was on 97 on FSN Prime in HD. Like many out there, I thought that FSN West and FSN Prime were only MPEG4 unitl Saturday. I never looked for them until trying to do a multiple game watch on the HR20 when I gave up went back to the old HR10 and there it was.
> 
> Just because guide shows TBA now doesn't mean something won't be there a few hours from now. Going to try and watch the Dodger and Angel games later tonight. They don't show up on the HR20 or the HR10 right now but who knows. A potential MPEG4 conspiracy brewing.
> 
> The mystery of D*...


The UCLA/Utah game was on Channel 95 in good ole MPEG-2 btw. Conspiracy blown.


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## Slyster (May 17, 2005)

SORRY! I absolutley know what dual tuners are.. I meant dual buffers. (up a few posts when I asked about the big deal)


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## ouijal (Aug 22, 2006)

cjr said:


> I've had the HR20 for over 2 weeks now and I have one word for those anxiously awaiting its arrival, WAIT.
> 
> Right now there is really no reason owners of the HR10 should upgrade. Yes, the HR20 is faster, it has some nice interactive capabilities, and you can get locals in MPEG4 but that is about it. With the HR10 you can get locals via OTA or in MPEG2 and you can get your RSNs in HD (I watched the Utah/UCLA game Saturday on FSN Prime HD with no problem).
> 
> ...


100% agreed. Until these issues are addressed no way am I switching. Even though my new 46" LCD 1080p HDTV is languishing without it. ;/ Oh well, xbox 360 and OTA will fill the void somewhat until DirecTV get it in gear.


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## thebarge (Aug 28, 2006)

ouijal said:


> 100% agreed. Until these issues are addressed no way am I switching. Even though my new 46" LCD 1080p HDTV is languishing without it. ;/ Oh well, xbox 360 and OTA will fill the void somewhat until DirecTV get it in gear.


You could always just get the HR10-250 now, and upgrade (for free) to the HR20 later down the road if they work out the bugs.


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## dbconsultant (Sep 13, 2005)

greywolf said:


> You cannot record one show and watch another live or record two shows at the same time without dual tuners.


The HR20 doesn't have dual tuners?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

It does have Dual Tuners.
It doesn't have Dual Buffers


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## dbconsultant (Sep 13, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> It does have Dual Tuners.
> It doesn't have Dual Buffers


Thanks, Earl!


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

thebarge said:


> 5. Showed my wife screenshots of the HR20 interface and her response was "Ugh. I hate it."
> 
> I actually would like to upgrade to the HR20, but these reasons just kill it for me. If they manage to fix reasons #1-4, I may could get past reason #5.


Showing her a screenshot and having her actually use it are 2 different things. I have no doubt she will love the fact that she'll still be watching TV while going thru menus. This is one thing I hated about TiVo. With the TiVo if you happened to think of something you wanted to record while watching another recording and, like me, you were guaranteed to forget it later you'd have to stop watching your recording to setup the new recording. With the HR20 you don't have to do this because what you are watching will be in the upper right hand corner of the screen while you are in any menu [Except the "Active" stuff].


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## thebarge (Aug 28, 2006)

RunnerFL said:


> Showing her a screenshot and having her actually use it are 2 different things.


That's what I'm hoping for. Well, assuming they add dual buffers. If they don't add that, the UI doesn't matter, she'll hate it with no buffers. She could most likely get over the look of the UI.



RunnerFL said:


> I have no doubt she will love the fact that she'll still be watching TV while going thru menus. This is one thing I hated about TiVo. With the TiVo if you happened to think of something you wanted to record while watching another recording and, like me, you were guaranteed to forget it later you'd have to stop watching your recording to setup the new recording. With the HR20 you don't have to do this because what you are watching will be in the upper right hand corner of the screen while you are in any menu [Except the "Active" stuff].


Well, the Tivo menu is somewhat transparent so I can still see through it. I usually just pause if I need to hit the guide to record something though.


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## munangst (Sep 1, 2006)

thebarge said:


> You could always just get the HR10-250 now, and upgrade (for free) to the HR20 later down the road if they work out the bugs.


That is not really true (for new customers & new HD upgrades). When I called D* to order an HD upgrade I was eventually told that my local installer has already allocated their entire stock of HR10s, and can't do any more HD-DVR installations until they get their shipment of HR20s (at which point, all HD-DVR installs will use the HR20, obviously). It's looking like the only way to guarantee you'll get an HR10 is to buy one from a retail store (Best Buy, etc.).


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## thebarge (Aug 28, 2006)

munangst said:


> That is not really true (for new customers & new HD upgrades). When I called D* to order an HD upgrade I was eventually told that my local installer has already allocated their entire stock of HR10s, and can't do any more HD-DVR installations until they get their shipment of HR20s (at which point, all HD-DVR installs will use the HR20, obviously). It's looking like the only way to guarantee you'll get an HR10 is to buy one from a retail store (Best Buy, etc.).


They installed my HR10-250 last week with no problems. But maybe that's just my area, or something has changed in the last week.


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## munangst (Sep 1, 2006)

thebarge said:


> They installed my HR10-250 last week with no problems. But maybe that's just my area, or something has changed in the last week.


I think it varies based on your area. This is what I was told late last week (Fri 9/1) for an install in the Pittsburgh, PA area. However, several D* CSRs I've talked to have said that it's their intent to have the HR20 rolled out nationally by the end of Sept. Local install subcontractors will probably continue to install HR10s until they run through their inventory. The CSR I talked to said that the local installer had already *allocated* their remaining HR10s, not *installed* them...so I assume that installs over the next couple of weeks (which were probably scheduled a few weeks ago) will still use HR10s. It's just if you are ordering a new install/upgrade today, there are no more HR10s in this area unless you buy one through the retail channel.


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## ShiningBengal (Jan 24, 2003)

laxcoach said:


> HR10's OTA tuner is absolute junk. I live less than 5 miles from all of my towers and I can't pick up a reliable signal. My new TVs can pickup half of them without a freaking antenna!


I have 2 HR-10's, live 10 miles from the antenna farm where all the towers are located, and use a Winegard SS2000 mounted on my balcony rail and aimed straight at a 1000 foot wide 10 story high grain elevator less than a block away which one would assume would entirely block my signal.

I get all of my HD locals with this setup--perfectly.

My brother lives 40 miles south of me, 50 miles from the same antenna farm. He uses a $25.00 Radio Shack Yagi antenna. Every one of the same towers maxes his signal in the 90-95 range on the OTA setup meters on his HR10-250, with no amplifier of any kind.

He gets all of his HD "locals" with this setup--perfectly.

Just because you get HD reception with your internal TV tuner doesn't prove anything, pro or con about either tuner. Perhaps your TV tuner has an amplifier, whereas the HR10 has none. The HR10 splits its signal, internally, since it has 2 tuners. You therefore need twice the signal input as you would with your single tuner TV set.

There are better tuners out there--_now_. The HR10 has been out for 2 years now, and tuners have improved in that interval. But to categorize them as "junk" is not borne out by the facts.

With the proper antenna selection, and where appropriate, amplification the HR10 tuners work just fine.


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## ratchytron2k (Aug 3, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> You don't. As you were told, the RSN's in HD are in MPEG4. Your HR10 cannot decode them. The only way to get them are to upgrade to the H20 (non DVR) or the HR20.


Thanks for the reply - that's what I thought, just curious why CJR says he is able to get them with his HR10-250...


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## ratchytron2k (Aug 3, 2006)

cjr said:


> I believe the UCLA/Utah game was on 97 on FSN Prime in HD. Like many out there, I thought that FSN West and FSN Prime were only MPEG4 unitl Saturday. I never looked for them until trying to do a multiple game watch on the HR20 when I gave up went back to the old HR10 and there it was.
> 
> Just because guide shows TBA now doesn't mean something won't be there a few hours from now. Going to try and watch the Dodger and Angel games later tonight. They don't show up on the HR20 or the HR10 right now but who knows. A potential MPEG4 conspiracy brewing.
> 
> The mystery of D*...


Please write back and let me know if you get them with your HR10 - that woudl be AWESOME if I could get my HD RSN's.


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## jeffster (Nov 3, 2005)

Slyster said:


> I don't get the big deal... Can't people just record one show (or game) and watch the other live? Then watch the other when it's done? Or just record both?


I agree. Although I have dual buffers on the H10-250, I just don't get the big deal. I never use the second buffer. I do record shows and watch the thing that was on the other tuner on delay later.

Also, on the tivo, you can start watching a recorded show before it finishes, so you can switch out , go to live TV, then jump back into a recorded show (though I very seldom do this).

Wouldn't that work for the HR20? I seem to recall reading that it now remembers your place in recorded shows.

The only question would be whether it allows you to start watching a show from the beginning while it is currently being recorded.


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## carlsbad_bolt_fan (May 18, 2004)

I have an HR10 and can't get anything OTA. I live down in a canyon and have an airport about 1-2 miles away, so the HR20 is my only option to get all my locals in HD.

I also subscribe to NFL ST, SuperFan and ESPN Gameplan. I really don't use the dual buffers all that often so not having them doesn't bother me.


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## Vinny (Sep 2, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> It does have Dual Tuners.
> It doesn't have Dual Buffers



So, can you watch one game, pause, switch tuners and watch the second. Then pause and go back to the first. I really hope you can, I use that function on the HR10 all the time.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Vinny said:


> So, can you watch one game, pause, switch tuners and watch the second. Then pause and go back to the first. I really hope you can, I use that function on the HR10 all the time.


No, that is dual BUFFER usage.


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## ChromaTick (Sep 2, 2006)

sealslayer said:


> For some of us, the only way to receive HD stations is via satelite. OTA is basically impossible in my current location. My only purpose in getting the HR20 is to get the HD locals from directv. I'm planning on keeping my HR10 and use the HR20 for HD locals. If I trusted the box more, I would probably replace my HR 10 with the HR 20.


I'm dying to get the HR20 because I can't get locals OTA either. I'm in Marysville. I'm just bummed that currently there are only two channels. NBC and CBS.

And Comcast just keeps tempting me....


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## jeffster (Nov 3, 2005)

Vinny said:


> So, can you watch one game, pause, switch tuners and watch the second. Then pause and go back to the first. I really hope you can, I use that function on the HR10 all the time.


But can you start recording Game 1, start watching Game 2 on the other tuner, pause Game 2, go to MyVOD and start watching Game 1 from the start, exit out to live TV after 15 minutes, and pick up where you paused on Game 2?


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## thebarge (Aug 28, 2006)

jeffster said:


> But can you start recording Game 1, start watching Game 2 on the other tuner, pause Game 2, go to MyVOD and start watching Game 1 from the start, exit out to live TV after 15 minutes, and pick up where you paused on Game 2?


I think there is currently a bug where it won't save your pause point on Game 2, so when you go back to Game 2 it's live.


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## yensid (Aug 12, 2006)

I think the reason everyone should wait for the HR20 is that it is not ready for prime time. No matter what all the experts say, audio drop outs on MPEG4 channels, deleting or corrupted recordings on MPEG 4 channels, major resets....

The reason everyone wanted the HR20 is to record HD in MPEG 4 format. If my show recordings were corrupted or deleted, do you know how ticked my wife and I would be? I guess a solution is to still have your old TIVO unit connected and recording the shows the HR20 does. Seems like a very ancient way on doing things.

I know they will fix most but not all of the problems over time. I just think for a project that has serious financial and strategic implications for the company they would have got these serious bugs worked out already. 

It is almost like hey I got it for $20 shipping is a you get what you pay for scenario. I truly hope this unit gets updated and fixed because I too would love to take advantage of it. I just can't afford gambling on recordings.....


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## mluntz (Jul 13, 2006)

laxcoach said:


> HR10's OTA tuner is absolute junk. I live less than 5 miles from all of my towers and I can't pick up a reliable signal. My new TVs can pickup half of them without a freaking antenna!


I'm 20 miles from the towers, have my antenna mounted to my deck railing, and I recieve all my locals beautiful!


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## BillyT2002 (Oct 19, 2002)

yensid said:


> I know they will fix most but not all of the problems over time. I just think for a project that has serious financial and strategic implications for the company they would have got these serious bugs worked out already.
> 
> It is almost like hey I got it for $20 shipping is a you get what you pay for scenario. I truly hope this unit gets updated and fixed because I too would love to take advantage of it. I just can't afford gambling on recordings.....


I am confident that DirecTV will iron out the bugs on this receiver over time They have impressed me with the latest software releases I've been seeing them release lately (and I'm usually rather skeptical and hard to impress... at this point I'm convinced they are working hard, just not so convinced they are working smart...).

This is why, I'm getting my HR20 now, but when the installer leaves I will ensure that I have six active tuners and in the process will be reactivating an HDVR2 I have lying around. So, in my houselhold, I'll have an HDVR2 for the wifes television shows, an HR10-250 for my television shows and an HR20 for any high-definition television show. Anything I instruct the HR20 to record, I'll also duplicate in high-definition when I can on the HR10-250 or in standard-definition when high-definition is not possible on one of the DirecTIVO DVRs. I will do this until I can completely trust the HR20 to record all of my programming.


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## Howie (Aug 16, 2006)

BillyT2002 said:


> I am confident that DirecTV will iron out the bugs on this receiver over time They have impressed me with the latest software releases I've been seeing them release lately (and I'm usually rather skeptical and hard to impress... at this point I'm convinced they are working hard, just not so convinced they are working smart...).
> 
> This is why, I'm getting my HR20 now, but when the installer leaves I will ensure that I have six active tuners and in the process will be reactivating an HDVR2 I have lying around. So, in my houselhold, I'll have an HDVR2 for the wifes television shows, an HR10-250 for my television shows and an HR20 for any high-definition television show. Anything I instruct the HR20 to record, I'll also duplicate in high-definition when I can on the HR10-250 or in standard-definition when high-definition is not possible on one of the DirecTIVO DVRs. I will do this until I can completely trust the HR20 to record all of my programming.


You, sir, are a belt and suspenders man.


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## wilbur_the_goose (Aug 16, 2006)

Howie - honestly, wouldn't cable TV be less expensive for you? All those mirroring fees!


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## dvrblogger (Jan 11, 2005)

cjr said:


> Skip to Tick - Really doesn't work despite what some have said.
> Skip to tick works fine just hold down FF or REW button.


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## BillyT2002 (Oct 19, 2002)

That's funny. Call it coincidence, but at work today I am wearing a leather belt and my red Microsoft C++ 6.0 suspenders.


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## ouijal (Aug 22, 2006)

thebarge said:


> You could always just get the HR10-250 now, and upgrade (for free) to the HR20 later down the road if they work out the bugs.


Does the hr10 use the same dish and cables runs from the dish as the hr20? I wouldnt want to replace the dish/wiring when I have to change from the 10 to the 20 in the somewhat near future.


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## thebarge (Aug 28, 2006)

ouijal said:


> Does the hr10 use the same dish and cables runs from the dish as the hr20? I wouldnt want to replace the dish/wiring when I have to change from the 10 to the 20 in the somewhat near future.


It uses a different 5LNB dish that's a bit larger and heavier. I'm not sure if it uses the same cabling, but I think so? You could always have them install the new dish when they install your HR10-250 (it will work with the new dish).


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## bboucher790 (Sep 6, 2006)

I for one am excited about the HR-20. I don't use Dual Buffers all that much, but I have a feeling if it's fixable by software update, the HR-20 will be capable of dual buffers in the future. I can live. The interface of the R15 (the HR20's fraternal twin), is VERY good. It may not have the cool Tivo sounds or the cool look of Tivo, but it's MUCH more functional and it blazes. I hear people bad mouth the R15 all the time and praise the HR-10. Personally, I don't get it. The R15's DVR functions work very well. Is it perfect? No. But, shows are organized in folders and it has a very professional look to it. There are a good amount of recording options as well. I personally don't understand why everyone is against the D** R15 interface.

The main reason, however, why I am excited about the HR-20 is its speed. I have suffered for WAY too long on my HDTV with sluggish scrolling. The R15 blazes and I hear the HR-20 does as well. IMO, you can have the best interface / record options in the world...but if you can't scroll through your channels fast....the box should be deemed unusable. Which brings me to my HR-10 rant....I have suffered for months and I need to vent .


I have to say, I find anyone who enjoys the HR10 at ALL, to be a baboon from the planet Yahtzee. It is the most SLUGGISH POS hardware I have ever used. I feel like I am browsing through a slow cell phone to watch T.V.. I don't care how many buffers it has, if I cannot browse through my menu quickly and efficiently, what's the freakin point? Not to mention, it's as slow as a turd trying to record / stop record. Takes at least 10-15 seconds to get the stupid timer to go away so I can continue with what I was doing. I have used other boxes and the HR10 is by far the worst DVR box I have ever used. Tivo is "cool" looking and attractive, but they don't even have folders to sort your shows! Don't bring up 6.3 in defense...please....that's just laughable. All you TIVO lovers should go get a room together. It's NOT that good. Comcast's HD DVR has a better interface than TIVO....COMCAST! I will agree, Tivo has purty colors and some decent recording options...it rewinds / ff well. Other than that? It's a pile. There was my rant. If you disagree...oh well. Go back to eating your lollies in Tivoland.


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## tomr (Aug 22, 2006)

I will wait. I already have 2 HR10-250's, one with a defective HDMI port. I am also scared the OTA tuners may never be activated. With DirecTV you never really know. THe speed of the HR10 really blows, but I do not want to trade one problem for another.

I'm not happy with DirecTV but cable here doesn't even offer HD much less a DVR. So, I'm stuck. 

I'm sure I will convert One of my HR10's to an HR20 at some point but I get all my locals via OTA. If 6.3 ever came out I probably wouldn't convert at all until forced or more HD channels came on-line. Dual buffers are nice but not a deal breaker for me.

Additional HD channels will be the "killer app" for me. Until then ...?


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

tomr said:


> I'm not happy with DirecTV but cable here doesn't even offer HD much less a DVR. So, I'm stuck.


Consider Dish Network. It will either make you appreciate what you have more or you'll find a way out of your hole.


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## celticpride (Sep 6, 2006)

even though i could probably get one now i'm holding off for now. does anyone know if they'll eventually let you get 3 hr20's for free or very low price? I have 3 hd -tivos and i don't think my wife will be happy if we have to spend more money on hd dvr's. if she gets mad i guess i can switch to verizon fios, only problem is she doesn't like their boxes. nor do i think she'll like the hr 20. she just loves tivo.


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## espo72 (Jul 28, 2006)

Does anyone know if the non-dual buffering is a temporary thing? I cant believe they would put dual tuners, but not dual buffers. It's a must when watching two sporting events at the same time.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

espo72 said:


> Does anyone know if the non-dual buffering is a temporary thing? I cant believe they would put dual tuners, but not dual buffers. It's a must when watching two sporting events at the same time.


Temporary thing? It's not even a sure thing yet.


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## jeffster (Nov 3, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> Temporary thing? It's not even a sure thing yet.


Wolf,

What do you mean by that? It seems pretty sure that there are no dual buffers on the HR20 as of now.


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## jeffster (Nov 3, 2005)

thebarge said:


> I think there is currently a bug where it won't save your pause point on Game 2, so when you go back to Game 2 it's live.


Can anyone confirm that? I saw some note in the latest release about remembering your spot when you return, but maybe that was just for returning to recorded shows.

(I'll have mine on friday so I can start to experiment...)


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

jeffster said:


> Wolf,
> 
> What do you mean by that? It seems pretty sure that there are no dual buffers on the HR20 as of now.


There are no dual live buffers on the R15 or HR20. My comment was in regards to the comment about this lack of dual buffers being temporary. Up until a couple of weeks ago DTVs stance was there never would be dual buffers. Due to some discussions here they realize more than a few folks use this feature on the Tivo units and need this on any future DVR they may migrate to.

Per some of Earl's posts I believe the current position is that DTV is reconsidering dual buffers. But nothing has been promised or even hinted to at this time.

So, at this point, no dual buffers is a permanent thing....that has the possibility of maybe changing down the road. Probably a while down the road.

Earl, please correct me here I'm on wrong on my understanding of this issue.


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## cjr (Jul 13, 2006)

From D*...

Thanks for asking about FSN West/Prime in HD. I have great news - we recently expanded our HD coverage to include Baseball games broadcast in HD by FSN West/Prime on channel 96 or 97. For details, check your on screen program guide or tune to that channel.

If you have HD equipment and an RSN is included in your programming package you should be able to see games in HD. If you are not getting your RSN's games in HD, you may need to upgrade your equipment in order to see them, please call us at (800) 531-5000 and select the option for technical assistance. A representative will be happy to help you get the equipment you need.

Thanks again for writing and stay tuned to directv.com/hd for the latest news about HD programming on DIRECTV.

Sincerely,

DIRECTV Customer Service

---------------------------------------------------------
I still don't see what the big deal is with RSNs in HD, supposedly in MPEG4, if they only broadcast a handful of games every few weeks. This week there were no Dodger or Angel games on. Looks like there is one game on Saturday [email protected] and I'm pretty sure you can get that on the HR10. Next week Fox HD schedule says one thing but none of the games show up in the guide on 96 or 97, so who knows...

http://msn.foxsports.com/name/HD#FSPrime

FSN West
Monday, Sep. 11, 2006
6:30 PM	Angels Live
7:00 PM	Chicago White Sox at L.A. Angels of Anaheim
10:00 PM	Angels Live
10:30 PM	Best Damn Sports Show Period
Tuesday, Sep. 12, 2006
6:30 PM	Angels Live
7:00 PM	Chicago White Sox at L.A. Angels of Anaheim
10:00 PM	Angels Live
10:30 PM	Best Damn Sports Show Period
Wednesday, Sep. 13, 2006
12:30 PM	Chicago White Sox at L.A. Angels of Anaheim
FSN Prime Ticket
No programming scheduled


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

cjr said:


> I still don't see what the big deal is with RSNs in HD, supposedly in MPEG4, if they only broadcast a handful of games every few weeks.


Any game in HD that I didn't get before is awesome. If I can get even half of the Red Wings home games in HD this year I'll be more then satisfied seeing as I've had at most 3-4 games in HD in the past. That's worth every dime to me and my wife who keeps bugging me about when we'll get more hockey in HD. Gotta love a woman who loves sports.


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## Twosted (Sep 18, 2006)

Ever since the last software update I have had ZERO issues. Don't wait, go get one now. It is a great box.


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## cawgijoe (Dec 22, 2005)

I don't agree with this thread at all.

From my perspective....I've never owned a DVR.....this is my first one and it has been very stable in the couple of months I've owned it. It's done everything I've asked it to do. I'm really enjoying it.

I did not pay a cent for it.....just another two year committment, which is fine with me because I actually like Directv. 

My only real complaint now is that I want my OTA!!!


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## Bay CIty (Dec 4, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> Any game in HD that I didn't get before is awesome. If I can get even half of the Red Wings home games in HD this year I'll be more then satisfied seeing as I've had at most 3-4 games in HD in the past. That's worth every dime to me and my wife who keeps bugging me about when we'll get more hockey in HD. Gotta love a woman who loves sports.


Even thou the Red Wings failed to pull that game off last night, It sure looked good in HD. Sure is hard to watch a hockey game in standard definition after seen one in HD.
And wasn`t that great Ken Daniels calling the game from between the benches?
More HD please


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## BJM (Dec 9, 2006)

Had I read this board before I got the HR20, I probably wouldn't have.

I was concerned because within the first 24-48* there were quite a few bugs (unwatchable, Series Link). Since I did a simple reset (the first level, not the red button), I've had no issues other than what I consider minor ones (closed caption). 'Course, I've only had the box for 6 days, so it's early yet...

Deleting shows from the playlist shows interesting behavior - if you're deleting the show currently showing in the little window, the list cursor moves to the top of the list (after changing the resolution of the TV)


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