# Disappointed in DISH HD Picture Quality on 4K TV



## TheVillagesGuy

The faces of people are way too smooth.....like they have no detail at all. Is this normal with DISH? Would DirecTV be better quality?


----------



## lparsons21

Dish's picture is sharp and crisp on my Sharp 70" 4K.


----------



## jimmie57

TheVillagesGuy said:


> The faces of people are way too smooth.....like they have no detail at all. Is this normal with DISH? Would DirecTV be better quality?


It is possible that you need to do a lot of experimenting on all the different settings available to adjust your TV to what you like. My settings are quite different than the 46" LCD that it replaced.


----------



## TheVillagesGuy

jimmie57 said:


> It is possible that you need to do a lot of experimenting on all the different settings available to adjust your TV to what you like. My settings are quite different than the 46" LCD that it replaced.


Already did that and it is on three different TV's. I am more picky than most with things like this. Some people think it looks great and I think it looks off.


----------



## lparsons21

You've solved your own problem. Because you are very picky about these things and DirecTV seems to fit the bill for you better, then get Direct and forget about Dish. Problem solved!!


----------



## jimmie57

TheVillagesGuy said:


> Already did that and it is on three different TV's. I am more picky than most with things like this. Some people think it looks great and I think it looks off.


Try increasing the "Sharpness" of the picture. My old LCD was set to 15 and the new 4k is set to 45.


----------



## inkahauts

What tv? Turn off all the smooth motion junk. 

And how do blu rays look to you?


----------



## P Smith

TheVillagesGuy said:


> The faces of people are way too smooth.....like they have no detail at all. Is this normal with DISH? Would DirecTV be better quality?


just switch to 4k source and enjoy PQ
DTV or streaming will be good for that


----------



## mrinker

I agree Dish quality is less. I was with D for 12 years and in Feb switched to Dish. Lot more blur of faces especially if they are farther in the background. I've tried numerous settings and while it has been somewhat improved I am still considering paying my ETF and using Dtv again. The smallest mosquito noise etc that my eyes picks up is enough to ruin my personal viewing pleasure when watching via Dish. I visit family a week ago in Nebraska where they have Cox Cable and even their cable was clearer than Dish. I love Dish equipment Hopper 3 which makes it hard to leave but for me PQ is priority.


----------



## unr1

Yea, when I switched from fios to dish I noticed a significant decrease in picture quality.


----------



## n3vino

I'm on Direct TV and I'm thinking of switching to dish to get the new customer discounts. But I hesitate to do so because Dish is HD Lite, lower quality HD than Direct TV. At least that's what everyone says. Dish is 1440 x 1080I where Direct is 1960 x 1080I. My TV and my AVR upscale to 1080P. When I upscale with AVR, my TV already gets an upscaled picture. I might go with Spectrum cable because they do not have a contract, although they do have a set up fee. But $100.00 for TV, 100 bps internet, and phone which I won't use, is quite tempting. Right now I pay $158.00, taxes included for the lowest plan on D* and 18 bps on Uverse internet. I'm going to check out streaming tv for quality.

I don't know what Spectrums HD resolution is. I know they are low quality HD, even if they say crisp HD in their commercials, I wonder if I could upscale Dish or Spectrum to a higher HD using my AVR. My aVR has upscaling capabilities. Any Ideas anyone?


----------



## MysteryMan

n3vino said:


> I'm on Direct TV and I'm thinking of switching to dish to get the new customer discounts. But I hesitate to do so because Dish is HD Lite, lower quality HD than Direct TV. At least that's what everyone says. Dish is 1440 x 1080I where Direct is 1960 x 1080I. My TV and my AVR upscale to 1080P. When I upscale with AVR, my TV already gets an upscaled picture. I might go with Spectrum cable because they do not have a contract, although they do have a set up fee. But $100.00 for TV, 100 bps internet, and phone which I won't use, is quite tempting. Right now I pay $158.00, taxes included for the lowest plan on D* and 18 bps on Uverse internet. I'm going to check out streaming tv for quality.
> 
> I don't know what Spectrums HD resolution is. I know they are low quality HD, even if they say crisp HD in their commercials, I wonder if I could upscale Dish or Spectrum to a higher HD using my AVR. My aVR has upscaling capabilities. Any Ideas anyone?


Ever hear of the "garbage in garbage out" rule? If the content or signal is low quality upscaling would be like putting a silk hat on a pig. I get my internet through Spectrum and seen their HD display in their office where I pay my bill. It's not as good as DIRECTV's.


----------



## James Long

n3vino said:


> At least that's what everyone says.


If you read it on the Internet it must be true.

The resolutions are from a few years ago ... I have not seen any recent results to prove that DISH still uses that level of down-res on their 1080i feeds (the 720p feeds were full frame at the time). DIRECTV also used less than full frame for 1080i for a while while waiting for new satellites. One could say DIRECTV invented HD Lite.

Every signal received via satellite is compressed in some way. Based on the bandwidth allocated per channel, DIRECTV is compressed less but even they are at the mercy of their sources. "Everything in HD" has led to providers choosing their own compression to get the signal from their systems to cable and satellite carriers.


----------



## peds48

n3vino said:


> My TV and my AVR upscale to 1080P. When I upscale with AVR, my TV already gets an upscaled picture.
> 
> I wonder if I could upscale Dish or Spectrum to a higher HD using my AVR. My aVR has upscaling capabilities. Any Ideas anyone?


All pictures displaying on your TV must match your TVs native resolution. Whether the upscaling is done by your STB, AVR, or TV that is for you to choose.

One thing is for sure, the less the signal gets manipulated before it gets to your TV the better the picture is.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## inkahauts

James Long said:


> If you read it on the Internet it must be true.
> 
> The resolutions are from a few years ago ... I have not seen any recent results to prove that DISH still uses that level of down-res on their 1080i feeds (the 720p feeds were full frame at the time). DIRECTV also used less than full frame for 1080i for a while while waiting for new satellites. One could say DIRECTV invented HD Lite.
> 
> Every signal received via satellite is compressed in some way. Based on the bandwidth allocated per channel, DIRECTV is compressed less but even they are at the mercy of their sources. "Everything in HD" has led to providers choosing their own compression to get the signal from their systems to cable and satellite carriers.


Directv did that before there was hardly any hd in the first place. Heck, half the stations only a few hours of programming a week. going back to the dawn of hd to compare what there is today is a bit misdirective. Dish has always done it. Directv hasn't since d10 went live.. kind of different....


----------



## inkahauts

peds48 said:


> All pictures displaying on your TV must match your TVs native resolution. Whether the upscaling is done by your STB, AVR, or TV that is for you to choose.
> 
> One thing is for sure, the less the signal gets manipulated before it gets to your TV the better the picture is.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Not true at all, sometimes outboard scalers are much better than anything a tv has. just depends on what you use. with that said, directv receivers scale very well.


----------



## peds48

inkahauts said:


> Not true at all, sometimes outboard scalers are much better than anything a tv has. just depends on what you use. with that said, directv receivers scale very well.


Excuse me? What is not true?

I said the less the signal gets manipulated the better. The is no number there. If you believe a picture can be manipulated 20 times and still be the same as when it started then your are awfully wrong.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## n3vino

inkahauts said:


> Not true at all, sometimes outboard scalers are much better than anything a tv has. just depends on what you use. with that said, directv receivers scale very well.


 I believe that to be true. D* sends a 1080I and my set is a 1080P so I believes it upscales to 1080P 60. When I use my AVR, the AVR upscales to 1080P 60. I don't know if the TV does anything else with that. My Blue ray player sends 1080P 24 and goes through my aVR without upscaling. My blue ray player also upscales regular DVD's to near HD quality and 24 frames, and my AVR passes it through without upscaling. When I display info the tv always shows 1920 x 1080p. I wonder if dish would be upscaled from 1440 x 1080I to 1920 x 1080p with either the AVR or if the TV would do it and if it would actually make a difference. I know upscaling is done to the horizontal lines but I don't know if the vertical lines are upscaled.


----------



## James Long

n3vino said:


> I wonder if dish would be upscaled from 1440 x 1080I to 1920 x 1080p with either the AVR or if the TV would do it and if it would actually make a difference. I know upscaling is done to the horizontal lines but I don't know if the vertical lines are upscaled.


DISH receiver outputs are 1920x1080i or 1920x1080p (specific VOD content) or 1280x720p for HD output. The decompression/rescaling from whatever is transmitted via satellite is done by the DISH receiver (including outputting 720p channels as 1080i and 1080i channels as 720p - following the one output format chosen by the customer).

What happens after that output is up to the AVR/TV.


----------



## P Smith

n3vino said:


> I believe that to be true. D* sends a 1080I and my set is a 1080P so I believes it upscales to 1080P 60.


it's not upscaling, it's just DE-INTERLACING


----------



## camo

Do we actually know what resolution Dish or Directv HD are broadcasting at? How about anyone on this forum with software/equipment to test raw signal input or is it so bad it must be kept a secret or just impossible to measure? 
I'm not interested in what the receiver sends out because after rescaling to 1080i you still have pixel loss and the softness many see. Its like putting lipstick on a pig. I know whats been posted on WiKi but that's old information.


----------



## P Smith

nothing new here, last pulls of MPEG-2/4 info (not yet for UHD) was from transferred files from DVR's HDD to Mobile Go (?)
(posted here, I have no link, sorry)

actually turn Native ON and do obtain the relevant data by your TV diag


----------



## camo

I don't think Dish allows you to tune native on. Directv does have that option though.


----------



## P Smith

what is making me mad, is both companies keep the info secure and avoid expose it publicaly  forcing us using hacker's methods
while in World any DVB-S/S2 receiver show all relevant info for any channel include encrypted if you have subbed card


----------



## James Long

camo said:


> I don't think Dish allows you to tune native on. Directv does have that option though.


Correct ... no "native mode" for DISH receivers. And it should be noted that even DIRECTV receivers do not pass through the exact satellite signal. That would require the AVR/TV to do satellite decompression.


----------



## P Smith

OK, let me explain the term "Native on" for all of you: that's mean "pass TS or video/audio PES to target like TV of other processors". E.g. what the STB get from satellite, do transfer it to TV without own processing of essential packets/TS.


----------



## James Long

P Smith said:


> OK, let me explain the term "Native on" for all of you: that's mean "pass TS or video/audio PES to target like TV of other processors". E.g. what the STB get from satellite, do transfer it to TV without own processing of essential packets/TS.


Are you expecting that ANY satellite receiver would actually do that? Or is DIRECTV's "native" mode simply scaling the output to the closest standard HD that matches the satellite transmission of that channel (720p via satellite is output as 720p, 1080i via satellite is output as 1080i).


----------



## P Smith

not "scaling" but adhere
in case of RVU client, just pass satellite PES to TV


----------



## n3vino

James Long said:


> Are you expecting that ANY satellite receiver would actually do that? Or is DIRECTV's "native" mode simply scaling the output to the closest standard HD that matches the satellite transmission of that channel (720p via satellite is output as 720p, 1080i via satellite is output as 1080i).


My TV info shows what type of signal it is receiving. If I set D* box to send 720p and 1080i, the info button on my tv's remote control will show which signal the tv is receiving. But since I only have the 1080I checked, it shows all signals from all station come in at 1080/60I. If I run it through my aVR which is set to pass 1080P, it will show 1080/60p. If I set avr to send 24 frames, it will show tv receiving 1080/24p. Signals from D* looks great on my 1080P TV.

My Blue ray passes through AVR what blue ray is set to. Blue ray is set to pass BD and DVD's at 1080p/24. That's what my TV shows it's receiving.


----------



## n3vino

James Long said:


> DISH receiver outputs are 1920x1080i or 1920x1080p (specific VOD content) or 1280x720p for HD output. The decompression/rescaling from whatever is transmitted via satellite is done by the DISH receiver (including outputting 720p channels as 1080i and 1080i channels as 720p - following the one output format chosen by the customer).
> 
> What happens after that output is up to the AVR/TV.


It's been argued that D* passes 1920x1080I and that Dish passes 1440x1080I, which is called HD lite. I haven't seen anything on 720P. But 720P is not an issue with me because I set my box to only transmit 1080I. And that's what my tv shows it's receiving from all channels. So the 1440x1080I HD lite is what's keeping me from moving to dish. I don't want to be dissatisfied with Dish and be stuck in a two year contract.


----------



## camo

All TV's show what the signal is rescaled too, but this doesn't answer what the raw signal being sent is before image gets rescaled by receiver, TV, or video processor to 1080, 720 etc. Example with FireTv I can look at the actual signal being sent before the TV. Its UHD,1080,720 even less 520 all depending on source.


----------



## James Long

n3vino said:


> It's been argued that D* passes 1920x1080I and that Dish passes 1440x1080I, which is called HD lite.


The historical claim was not what was passed by the box but the resolution sent via satellite. The box output was and is 1920x1080i.

At some point in the chain channels are converted from the format used via satellite to a signal the TV can easily display. That conversion is done at the receiver or client.

It is nice that some services reveal their aspect ratios and data rates on screen in their clients. It is more critical for debugging a streaming service (where the feed could vary customer to customer) than a satellite service (where only one or two feeds are available, SD and HD).


----------



## inazsully

Bottom line is in the eye of the beholder. We had the Hopper since day one until about 6 months ago when we switched to "D". Sitting 18 feet from a Sony 75X850C my wife and I immediately noticed a PQ improvement with "D". Even after 6 months we will both sometimes mention the PQ difference.


----------



## n3vino

inazsully said:


> Bottom line is in the eye of the beholder. We had the Hopper since day one until about 6 months ago when we switched to "D". Sitting 18 feet from a Sony 75X850C my wife and I immediately noticed a PQ improvement with "D". Even after 6 months we will both sometimes mention the PQ difference.


This is what a lot of people who have had dish, uverse, or cable, have said. Direct tV has a much better PQ. I think D* has a very good PQ. Whether it's the satellite or the receiver providing the resolution is of no consequence. The issue for me is the PQ that is being sent to my TV from the provider.

I use my smart tv to view Netflix. Sometimes you can see in the stats, via the info key on my remote control, how it goes in steps from a poor resolution to 1080. Whether it's my internet, my tv, or Netflix doing it, I don't know. The Pq from Netflix when it settles, in my opinion, is excellent. Amazon prime, on the other hand, does not offer as much HD as Netflix. They provide a lot of SD 4x3 material. I don't watch SD. I'm curretnly testing HULU free for 30 days, and they also have a very good PQ. I have to see how good their content is.


----------



## tcatdbs

I just upgraded from original Hopper to Hopper 3. PQ looks great on either for HD, but SD looks much worse to me on h3. Good thing I don't watch much on SD!

 6P - AquariOS


----------



## P Smith

time to immerse into UHD and forget the SD


----------



## tcatdbs

Really just TVland and Pop. Doesn't take too long to watch all hdr content!

 6P - AquariOS


----------



## camo

I had both and matching side by side 4K Sony TV's. At times with different channels like Smithsonian on Directv, it was ultra sharp almost 4K looking but on Dish it was just so so.

Now HBO I found both very close even after freezing channels to look for subtle differences it was close. I really have my doubts longer distances say 15' anyone can actually pick out PQ difference. Inside of 8' absolutely you can but much further out it would be real tough. Where I saw the biggest difference was on football broadcast but when you have different network sources its not the greatest comparison.


----------



## tivofan2018

MysteryMan said:


> Ever hear of the "garbage in garbage out" rule? If the content or signal is low quality upscaling would be like putting a silk hat on a pig. I get my internet through Spectrum and seen their HD display in their office where I pay my bill. It's not as good as DIRECTV's.


spectrums HD stuff isn't even true HD. there DVR service sucks no whole home and i got a dual tuner unity no 21 first century equipment. i have a 4k tv and 1080I looks god awful on it. i have a low signal it's in the 60's not good my phone would drop out cable modem would reboot lots of pixelation and macro blocks during sports and fast action scenes DVR would loose my scheduled recordings. i got out before the promo was over. had a fight with a rep about a cable card she said i could not have one because i was not a granfarthered in TWC customer. i filed an fcc complaint and that woke em up


----------



## tivofan2018

n3vino said:


> I'm on Direct TV and I'm thinking of switching to dish to get the new customer discounts. But I hesitate to do so because Dish is HD Lite, lower quality HD than Direct TV. At least that's what everyone says. Dish is 1440 x 1080I where Direct is 1960 x 1080I. My TV and my AVR upscale to 1080P. When I upscale with AVR, my TV already gets an upscaled picture. I might go with Spectrum cable because they do not have a contract, although they do have a set up fee. But $100.00 for TV, 100 bps internet, and phone which I won't use, is quite tempting. Right now I pay $158.00, taxes included for the lowest plan on D* and 18 bps on Uverse internet. I'm going to check out streaming tv for quality.
> 
> I don't know what Spectrums HD resolution is. I know they are low quality HD, even if they say crisp HD in their commercials, I wonder if I could upscale Dish or Spectrum to a higher HD using my AVR. My aVR has upscaling capabilities. Any Ideas anyone?


now that i think about it i would run like hell from spectrum i would run like my hair was on fire!!!


----------



## dtv757

I cant speak for E*/Dish...
but I will say Cable co's are absolute TRASH

I compared D* and Cox cable on the same tv and NBA was unwatchable via cox's new Contour 2 box testing on both 1080i and 1080p settings. Cable was microblock city for the fast motion of NBA.

D* won hands down vs cable .

I have also see Optimum TV (prior to Altice1 box) and that was hot garbage as well

also comcast is compression all channels to 720p so they are garbage as well.
Comcast downgrading all 1080i HD channels to 720p - Xfinity Help and Support Forums - 2806786

IMO your best bet is SAT , TELCO or OTT


----------



## tivofan2018

dtv757 said:


> I cant speak for E*/Dish...
> but I will say Cable co's are absolute TRASH
> 
> I compared D* and Cox cable on the same tv and NBA was unwatchable via cox's new Contour 2 box testing on both 1080i and 1080p settings. Cable was microblock city for the fast motion of NBA.
> 
> D* won hands down vs cable .
> 
> I have also see Optimum TV (prior to Altice1 box) and that was hot garbage as well
> 
> also comcast is compression all channels to 720p so they are garbage as well.
> Comcast downgrading all 1080i HD channels to 720p - Xfinity Help and Support Forums - 2806786
> 
> IMO your best bet is SAT , TELCO or OTT


you should try spectrum only a dual tuner DVR. and they compress the **** out of there picture to the point where it breaks up and pixelizes macro blocks


----------



## dtv757

tivofan2018 said:


> you should try spectrum only a dual tuner DVR. and they compress the **** out of there picture to the point where it breaks up and pixelizes macro blocks


yea all cable co's are trash. as i wrote above SAT , TELCO or OTT


----------



## tivofan2018

dtv757 said:


> yea all cable co's are trash. as i wrote above SAT , TELCO or OTT


everything about spectrum is stoneage


----------



## Jillxz

This title said Dissapointed in Dish HD quality , but all youI saw was about Spectrum Cable quality. Didn’t see any thing about Dish HD quality


----------



## reubenray

It was looking real good at maybe switching to Dish from Directv, but the PQ issue is a big concern to me. I have a 75" 4K Sony TV.


----------



## dtv757

If your looking for 4k , based on your other post, D* has more live sports in 4k 

Sent from my mobile device using Tapatalk


----------



## lparsons21

reubenray said:


> It was looking real good at maybe switching to Dish from Directv, but the PQ issue is a big concern to me. I have a 75" 4K Sony TV.


I've got a 75" Sony 900E and the picture on dish with a Hopper 3 was excellent

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## JeffBartlett

TheVillagesGuy said:


> The faces of people are way too smooth.....like they have no detail at all. Is this normal with DISH? Would DirecTV be better quality?


We just switched from DirecTV (got tired of them raising my prices every two years) and man, for my eyes, very easy to tell that HD quality of Dish's picture is NOT good. Never had a problem with DirecTV's HD quality...it was stellar. We are pretty bummed because heard about all the technology advantages Dish has and at the end of the day, to found out that the one thing you actually have TV for.....to watch it......is a very NOT HD picture. I'm told that Dish broadcasts a 1080 x 1440 signal where DirecTV is 1080 x 1080. Many people on here say they can't tell a difference and that seems reasonable to me....people are very different, no one is the same. For this human, I can clearly tell that Dish's HD signal is inferior to DirecTV....hands down.


----------



## James Long

Strange experience. Both DirecTV and DISH raise their prices every year. DISH allows customers to make a two year commitment without a 2nd year price increase, but DISH's discounts are lower.


----------



## auburn2

The difference in picture quality is not due to the resolution, it is due to the amount video compression, the video compression algorithm used and how dynamic the content is. Saying one is 1920x1080 and the other is 1440x1080 is not the right way to look at. The frame rate and the number of pixels changing each frame are important too. As others have noted, the bandwidth when it is delivered to Dish matters too.

Does anyone remember VOOM? Back when Dish first bought VOOM their HD picture was fantastic, better than it is today on most channels even though it was "only" 1080i, and that was using only MPEG2 which is not as efficient as MPEG4. The difference was there were only a few channels so there was more bandwidth devoted to each.


----------



## krel

i have to say that DTV'S HD is amazing it's almost as good as there 4K. i have 2 sony 85 inch XBR-85Z9G sets. and the HD is just amazing on them. and there 4K is mind blowing. personally i would not use dish. there's to many issues with the hopper 3 with things like timer issues OTA issues with the guide and recordings ect ect. dish will still charge a small fee for a service call if you have the protection plan DTV don't..


----------



## krel

my sets are 8K. so when i watch 4K UHD the sets upconvert them as close to 8K it can get. and that's amazing!!! on my sets the DTV HD looks as good as the 4K i can barley tell the difference


----------



## krel

would't the dish top 250 come out to be the same as the DTV ultimate package after it was all said and done???


----------

