# **UPDATED RUMOR** Dish HDNet Launch Date



## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

Getting programming information out of Dish Network lately is like pulling teeth.

But I have received something a little while ago which is UNCONFIRMED so I will mark it as a rumor.

The Start Date for HDNet & HDNet Movies will be on August 15th, from the info I got the HDNets will be on the 110 satellite (again unconfirmed) they will be in free preview mode until September 1st when Dish Network launches its New "Americas Top HD Package"

I am told the America's Top HD Package will have one channel that will be a MAJOR SURPRISE. (I have NO IDEA what that channel is)

If anyone knows anything more please contact me.

Again this is unconfirmed and should only be considered a rumor.

Please if you post this info anywhere else, please include the words that this is an unconfirmed rumor and that you read this at DBSTalk.COM.


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## dmodemd (Jul 5, 2002)

I really think they are going to include InHD since they seem to have a good working relationship with them. Didnt someone say they are also based near them in Colorado?

I would bet they would carry them at launch like Discovery HD.

http://www.inhd.com/


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## Martyva (Apr 23, 2002)

Maybe Bravo--launch 7-31-03?


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## JMikeF (May 2, 2003)

I'm hoping that if the TOP HD package is released in September, that it will not initially need the superdish, but can use existing space and equip.

We need to bombard the upcoming Tech Talk to get more info on this. Make Dish realize that we will vote with our feet (our Dish?) if they don't keep their promise of being the HD leader.


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## Allen Noland (Apr 23, 2002)

Does anyone know if there are still 4 open transponders on 110? If so, could we have 12 channels on ATHD until the super dish stuff is figured out?


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## Eyedox (Nov 25, 2002)

The surprise could be ESPN-HD too ... or maybe the surprise is that they are kidding about HD on DISH this year.


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## Martyva (Apr 23, 2002)

or 24 hr channel of Charlie and Jim at a desk :grin:


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## John Corn (Mar 21, 2002)

Sweet....Let's hope your rumor is true!!.

Wait....I need a 921 or 811 too.


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

Martyva said:


> or 24 hr channel of Charlie and Jim at a desk :grin:


as long as it in HD, lol, maybe some would not even mind


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## Cyclone (Jul 1, 2002)

Major Surprise.

Either 

F/X-HD
or
Comcast Sports Net - HD

Seriously, its likely just a Starz-HD channel that everyone already knows about, but they think its surprising.


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

Bravo HD+ launches July 31.


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## motjes2 (May 9, 2002)

This is great news! but it is dissappointing that it's going to take E* until sept 1st to catch up to D*. Why does E* had to wait so long to get an HD package together if the speculation is that E* already has the bandwith where D* has little problem in putting together an HD package?

The only reason I had stuck with E* is because of the investment I have already made (two 6000 receivers, one 721 and two 301's). The 6000 receivers I purchased in anticipation of having ESPN-HD for the baseball season (since I really don't care about NFL games). Why does E* have to play second in line and make every subscriber play second as well? I will wait until sept but if sept comes and there is no HD package and there is no 921 either, then I will swallow the investment I made so far. Sell it and change to D*. It seems like D* is committed to please their customers and the only thing you need to do is ask... Just an opinion. :computer:


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## Guest (Jul 10, 2003)

motjes2 said:


> This is great news! but it is dissappointing that it's going to take E* until sept 1st to catch up to D*. Why does E* had to wait so long to get an HD package together if the speculation is that E* already has the bandwith where D* has little problem in putting together an HD package?:


Two to three months is not bad in the scheme of things, I would rather all of this happen in the summer than during the fall TV season, I dont watch much TV this time of year anyway and have not seen anything of interest on ESPN HD yet.

Hope this rumor is correct(fingers crossed on this one).
Stefan


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## Guest (Jul 10, 2003)

Scott Greczkowski said:


> Getting programming information out of Dish Network lately is like pulling teeth.
> 
> But I have received something a little while ago which is UNCONFIRMED so I will mark it as a rumor.
> 
> ...


 hope this is better than your WINK tv rumour


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

Maybe the channel will be a porno channel, lol. I did read some comment about that somewhere I thought.

This sounds like wonderful news if this is true. It will make getting an HDTV more worthwhile.


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## Guest (Jul 10, 2003)

better yet a hdtv shopping channel


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## tahoerob (Mar 22, 2003)

Jacob S said:


> Maybe the channel will be a porno channel, lol. I did read some comment about that somewhere I thought.
> 
> This sounds like wonderful news if this is true. It will make getting an HDTV more worthwhile.


I am sure Playboy HD would be a top seller!!!!!!!!!!!


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## franzius (May 1, 2003)

If E* is going to offer free preview stating 8/15, why can't they start on 8/1? Is it because they cant relate to their customer's needs and desire or, is it because they have to deal with some unexpected technical issues, Charlie's boast of 50+ HD channels capacity notwithstanding ?

Franzius


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## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

joe said:


> hope this is better than your WINK tv rumour


Well Joe (Juan?) Dish has been using Wink Technology for awhile now, although not in the good way that DirecTV is. Instead Dish Network is using the Wink Technology to make commercials interactive.

See this thread for for details.
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=16311

That is one that thing that was not a rumor and is true.


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

hehe - Porn HD - lol - imagine all those colors and picture quality


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

Extreme Closeups With Porn Hd!!!!


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## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

Keep it clean kids remember were a family board :lol:

A lot of folks have been emailing me and PMing me asking that the "Major Surprise Channel" is.

Honestly I DO NOT KNOW. I am anxious to find out just like you. 

Looking at the Lineup for the Tech Chat I think its safe to say it will be a good chat for HDTV fans.


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## csschrot (May 2, 2003)

It will be good for HD fans if they have some honest news. I would like some firm dates on programming and at least the 811. I would like a date on the 921 (which I will be buying sometime) but I understand if they just give a Thanksgiving time frame. I will still wait for the 921 but I do have quite a few customers that would like the 811 and not the 921. The 6000 is out of date for software and these people would like the 811.

Shawn


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## rudolpht (Nov 6, 2002)

Starz-HD would be GREAT


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## wileadams (Dec 6, 2002)

I think that the MAJOR surprise channel will be from USA Networks. DISH used to have on the 61.5 satellite USA and SciFi in testing in 8PSK format... Maybe we will see something in this light... Afterall, didn't DISH have an agreement with USA Networks for new programming?


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## invaliduser88 (Apr 23, 2002)

joe said:


> better yet a hdtv shopping channel


:flaiming: Die die die die die!


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## Mike123abc (Jul 19, 2002)

I would be very pleased if they carried a bunch of the most popular channels in enhanced definition if they are not in HDTV. Later when the HDTV feed comes out they could upgrade.


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## Zach2 (May 18, 2003)

I sure hope they do add this HD package by Sept 1st, I've been hoping for August 1st. 
They better have these HD channels on 148 as well or I might just give up on dish. Satellite 110 is only viewable in Alaska if you have a 6' dish which costs about $1200 installed.

I bet they add ESPN HD for football season.....any chance ABC HD could be the "suprise?"


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## oblio98 (Sep 17, 2002)

Great. Any Dish HD news is better than nothing. They really need to get going with this stuff. Friends are asking me what service to get if they get an HD set, and I can't recommend one right now.


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## kstevens (Mar 26, 2003)

We now live in a society where people want their cake and eat it too. Not everything fits under the fast food mentality, some things are still worth waiting for, especially if they are to be done right.


Ken


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

Scott, I sent in my list of items for the Tech Chat and one thing they responded with was:

*HDNet and HDNet Movies will be available to customers using DISH Network's new SuperDish, unveiled at DISH Network's annual Team Summit satellite TV retailer conference*.

Unless 110 is temporary sounds like your source was wrong or the CSR's are incorrect in their response.


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## Martyva (Apr 23, 2002)

Except, unfailingly, the last part never comes about. :smoking:


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

> If E* is going to offer free preview stating 8/15, why can't they start on 8/1?


Because people would complain that it wasn't available July 31, which would lead to complaints that it wasn't available July 30, etc., etc.


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## pjboud (Feb 14, 2003)

The major surprise will be the addition of one of the network national feeds in HD. Hopefully ABC, so MNF is available to me. I base this on pure speculation and my desire to see MNF in HD.


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## Mike123abc (Jul 19, 2002)

RAD said:


> Scott, I sent in my list of items for the Tech Chat and one thing they responded with was:
> 
> *HDNet and HDNet Movies will be available to customers using DISH Network's new SuperDish, unveiled at DISH Network's annual Team Summit satellite TV retailer conference*.
> 
> Unless 110 is temporary sounds like your source was wrong or the CSR's are incorrect in their response.


They could be putting things on 110 for now and moving to 105 later. This would require SuperDish to get all the channels. 105 still seems iffy at the moment when AMC-2 gets over there they are going to have 60watts/channel... They will be lucky to get 1 HDTV channel per transponder to avoid rain fade.


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## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

The superdish will be slow to roll out, thus I believe HDNet at 110 may be a temporary thing. (I am surprised they did not throw them on 61.5 but when I thought about it I figured it must be because 148 would have no room for the 2 HD channels)


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

motjes2 said:


> This is great news! but it is dissappointing that it's going to take E* until sept 1st to catch up to D*. Why does E* had to wait so long to get an HD package together if the speculation is that E* already has the bandwith where D* has little problem in putting together an HD package?...:computer:


 Remember the fable about the race between "The Tortoise and the Hare"? As a Dish sub, I can accept (tolerate) a late start for E*'s HD rollout --IF-- in the end, they pass the Hare and win the HD race.


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

Nick - hehe - that is exactly how i was looking at this matter 

I think there is even a Russian proverb on this..something like: "The slower you go, the further you'll be"


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

I personally do not think they will put HDTV on 110 but that free spaces is going to be used for locals. The reason being is that Charlie said that they did not see putting any unless they put one or two there in the future, not a bunch of them, another reason is that they need the space for locals and that will bring in a lot more revenue than putting up the HDTV temporarily at 110. Another reason is that they will make some customers mad if they see that they were able to get it on 110 then all of a sudden the service that they had requires a dish upgrade when it did not require it before. This would tick off subscribers that had ordered the HDTV channels or setup for around $1,500 that they announced and some may not be able to get the signal in at 105/121 or would not want the bigger dish. It would be kind of misleading in a way and the customer should be forewarned that an upgrade would be needed in the future if they planned for the channels to be at 110 temporarily.


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

Darkman said:


> Nick - hehe - that is exactly how i was looking at this matter
> 
> I think there is even a Russian proverb on this..something like: "The slower you go, the further you'll be"


Darkman, I have held a similar philosophy throughout my adult life... "The slower you go, the happier _she'll_ be!" :evilgrin:


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## rowdymon (Oct 17, 2002)

Will this superdish work with my 6000?

H


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## wmayo (Dec 1, 2002)

Ok, first of all. Would love another main network, but it would seem a steep hill for Dish to get such a concession from ABC, especially after Albritton ABC stations are still very heated about Dish. I'm in a dead zone (far away AND between mountains) and STILL the local ABC (yeah, an Albritton) refuses ANY waivers.

Secondly,
Originally Posted by RAD:
...Scott, I sent in my list of items for the Tech Chat and one thing they responded with was:

HDNet and HDNet Movies will be available to customers using DISH Network's new SuperDish, unveiled at DISH Network's annual Team Summit satellite TV retailer conference....

If they light up the birds with new HD and at the same time say, "Oh, you'll all have to get this next big dish upgrade, etc." to get ANYTHING else (esp. ESPN-HD) there will be cry in the land they won't believe. And I don't think they're ramped up enough to suddenly give every HD customer a new HD dish (free or otherwise).

That blunder aside, I still think the tortoise is going to win.


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## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

> If they light up the birds with new HD and at the same time say, "Oh, you'll all have to get this next big dish upgrade, etc." to get ANYTHING else (esp. ESPN-HD) there will be cry in the land they won't believe. And I don't think they're ramped up enough to suddenly give every HD customer a new HD dish (free or otherwise).


Yup your correct about that, if you will recall the promots from the enhanced adapter said that the module was all you would need to receive all future HD programming on Dish Network.


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## lapplegate (Jan 17, 2003)

Personally, I don't think the big surprise would be Starz HD or other networks in HD.
I would like to see both, but, one would require waivers and both an upcost. Starz would most likely be as HBO with a subsciption to Starz.
I do not think it would be a wise move to announce a new channel that would be outside the possible HD package. It would be a disaster to announce the great new HD package, BUT, the surprise will be an additional cost to that. 

Larry


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## rowdymon (Oct 17, 2002)

Anyone? Will this superdish work with the 6000?


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## Martyva (Apr 23, 2002)

i don't think so, but i think they're offering an upgrade.... something about your firstborn and your right arm. heck of a deal


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## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

rowdymon said:


> Anyone? Will this superdish work with the 6000?


Tune in to the Tech Chat on Monday and you will get your answer. 

Channel 101 Live at 9pm.


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## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

Nick said:


> Darkman, I have held a similar philosophy throughout my adult life... "The slower you go, the happier _she'll_ be!" :evilgrin:


 !rolling


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## rowdymon (Oct 17, 2002)

Scott Greczkowski said:


> Tune in to the Tech Chat on Monday and you will get your answer.
> 
> Channel 101 Live at 9pm.


Well, then I hope they give all of us 6000 owners free 811's because I'm happy with my 6000 right now and don't feel like spending more $$ to upgrade.


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## HTguy (May 7, 2002)

rowdymon said:


> Anyone? Will this superdish work with the 6000?


Sure, the 6000 will work with the Superdish. It will need a software download to work with the DP+44 switch (if required) but it will not need a legacy adaptor.


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## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

Just got an update which I am inclined to believe but still consider this a RUMOR.

On the tech chat there will be NO launch or new channel announcements, instead the HDnet Launch Date will be announced on the Aug 11th Charlie Chat (then the free preview will start 4 days later on the 15th.)

This does make sense to me. But again I consider this a rumor.


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## Guest (Jul 11, 2003)

yes, it takes them 2 years to complete a 921 and they will announce and begin delivering new HD content in 4 days.


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## Guest (Jul 12, 2003)

I remember we were all happy. Dish Network was going to launch more channels in May. Announcements were going to be made. Nothing happend except of promises to start more channels in the summer. Now it is September? Why do we take those romours even serious. And in addition, why do we take E* serious. They nevere made their deadlines and all communication is a cloud. Can we just start our own satellite HD provider? At least, we would have all channels available and using full bandwith (Just joking)


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

If the channels were delayed just like the 921 was then you would not have much to hope for would you? And you still do not know how much more of a delay to expect on the 921.


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## bills976 (Jun 30, 2002)

Scott Greczkowski said:


> On the tech chat there will be NO launch or new channel announcements, instead the HDnet Launch Date will be announced on the Aug 11th Charlie Chat (then the free preview will start 4 days later on the 15th.)
> 
> This does make sense to me. But again I consider this a rumor.


Maybe it's just me, but this makes absoultely NO business sense at all to me. If what Scott says is true, and I tend to believe him, they've reached an agreement with HDNet. Why not announce this as soon as possible? Why not give as much time as possible to sign up potential subs to the HD pack? This just boggles my mind because I think it's utterly idiotic to leave just four days from an official announcement to launch of a new channel. Schwimmer must be in charge of this because I really don't think Charlie is this bad a businessman. This is just so stupid.

This is less of an issue, but why are they putting Charlie in charge of this announcement? The tech guys know HD. They know what they're talking about. Ergen knows nothing technical, not to mention anything about HD. I'm tempted to run over to my local rat shack to see this chat because it'll be a joke. Mark and Dave would do a much better job with this........


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## Mike123abc (Jul 19, 2002)

They probably want to form a package to charge for HDTV and want to put more than HDNET/Movies, DHDT and ESPN-HD in it. They probably want to launch with 6-8 channels for the $10 or so that that package will end up costing to make it more of a value. InHD, BravoHD, etc are all launching about the time the package should be arriving. They would probably love to get 10 channel for $10, but that probably will not happen for a while since there are not enough channels in HDTV to broadcast.


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## bills976 (Jun 30, 2002)

Mike123abc said:


> They probably want to form a package to charge for HDTV and want to put more than HDNET/Movies, DHDT and ESPN-HD in it. They probably want to launch with 6-8 channels for the $10 or so that that package will end up costing to make it more of a value. InHD, BravoHD, etc are all launching about the time the package should be arriving. They would probably love to get 10 channel for $10, but that probably will not happen for a while since there are not enough channels in HDTV to broadcast.


Mike - You're probably right, though I disagree with this approach. Right now Directv is outshining Dish on the HD front. They've got to do something to demonstrate they're backing HD. Why not throw those who've been subbing to DiscoveryHD a bone by giving them HDNet? Talk about loyal... if you're still subbing to DiscoveryHD with all the repeats, you deserve something at this point. Package them together for now, and then announce ESPNHD, etc. and raise the price. The sooner you announce something, the more interest you're going to get. Again, maybe I'm in left field here, but that's what I'd do.


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## jeffwtux (Apr 27, 2002)

joe said:


> better yet a hdtv shopping channel


Even better, Lifetime HD :lol: :lol:


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## kstevens (Mar 26, 2003)

bills976 said:


> Mike - You're probably right, though I disagree with this approach. Right now Directv is outshining Dish on the HD front. They've got to do something to demonstrate they're backing HD. Why not throw those who've been subbing to DiscoveryHD a bone by giving them HDNet? Talk about loyal... if you're still subbing to DiscoveryHD with all the repeats, you deserve something at this point. Package them together for now, and then announce ESPNHD, etc. and raise the price. The sooner you announce something, the more interest you're going to get. Again, maybe I'm in left field here, but that's what I'd do.


Give me a break! They in no way outshines E*. they have a couple extra channels right now in place on a mediocre deliviery system. If that outshines E* then why don't you just jump ship now and save us the rants...

Ken


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## wmayo (Dec 1, 2002)

Well at least I don't consider it a rant. I agree with the point made on "business sense", signing up subs, etc.

It would seem they have GOT to make some announcement. The vacuum out here is taking everyone's breath away.

Well, no, I guess they don't. They could go on and ignore the elephant in the room, being mute about it or deferring like before, and ride very close to pushing some customers away. Not ... because of the timing of launch (if it does happen to be Aug 15/Sept. 1), but because of how they've handled this all (including the 921).

Actually, if they are still finalizing a channel or two, then they should say, "IT'S COMING" - we'll be announcing an HD package in the August CChat ... and youre GONNA LOVE IT!!" (even if they are not EXACTLY sure of the channel count, but there'll be a package). The PR would be profound. This wouldn't be as neccesary if DirectTV hadn't gone to the forefront (a weak one, admittedly).

Finally, it would seem obvious that the retailer chat IS the place to make this kind of announcement. Why withhold this from dealers only to give Joe sixpack the scoop (many who would not care)?


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## Mike123abc (Jul 19, 2002)

Perhaps they do not want to give any information to DirecTV. Although it seems unlikely they could really hide from DirecTV, they could be secretly negotiating for channels that have not been announced yet. Long time ago there was talk of Dish not only carrying HDTV but a bunch of channels in enhanced definition (Real broadcast quality, not the overcompressed softened picture on normal channels).

If they really planning on launching 4 days after the Charlie Chat announcement they may be trying to time it so that DirecTV would not have a chance of getting agreements, uplinks or satellite capacity.

People would flip for a package that included the announce HDTV -- DHDT, ESPN-HD, HDnet/movies, InHD, BravoHD, etc -- PLUS a bunch of channels in Enhanced definition. They could carry 5-8 of these channels per transponders in 5.1DD (8PSK on 110 could have 6+mbit/sec per channel with 8/transponder). 10 or 15 channels could easily be done in enhanced resolution and later converted to HD when they provide the channel in HD. I am not saying that anything like this will happen, but it is just speculation.

I know it is just idle speculation. But, right now Aug 15 start date is not because of AMC-2 moving to 105 and starting transmission. Right now I do not see how they could possibly do it since it is about a month away and AMC-2 has not even started to move to 105. One would think moving would take a couple weeks, then you have to do all the uplinking and testing. They will have to go with 110 if they are starting on 8/15. Now they can say 110 is temporary and you better have superdish in quick because we will be moving them to 105 ASAP (maybe 9/15 when the "free trial" is over?).


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## Guest (Jul 12, 2003)

I disagree with your thoughts that they are trying to hide strategy from D* or I guess I disagree with the thought they could be using that strategy.

D* has put together a package of new HD channels that would be purchased immediately by 99% of all HD subscribers on E* if it was available at the same price from readings on this site and others. If E* just put that out there and then added HD channels onto it when they could with no price increase everyone here would be extremely happy.

I've had an HD television set now for a year and have been waiting to see E*'s strategy and rollout of HDTV. I believe their direction is the best one in regards to PQ and compression. I haven't purchased a 6000 because the HD content now available on E* is not worthy of that purchase becuase I'd heard so much about the 921 and 811. But, now we're talking about a rollout of HD content that I would go ahead and purchase a 6000,(hello there E*, $$$ in your pocket that I'm waiting to spend), even though I know it is an obsolete unit. But, they aren't giving me any time to purchase and set it up so that I can enjoy the new content, while upgrading my current programming selection(hello E*, more $$$ in your pocket sooner)

All I'm saying on the strategy part is that they've already let D* steal the thunder of being the first DBS provider to splash with a new HD package including ESPNHD. I would assume that if they had all the contracts in place they could announce it sooner, and don't we all believe that all it takes is an announcement and not actual delivery that makes a big boom in this marketplace? How big was the announcement of D* and their package?


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## JMikeF (May 2, 2003)

I'd agree that E* _appears_ to have a better delivery system. Just check out the many threads of unhappy D* HD folks with sync/breakup artifacts on SHO, D-HD, etc.

But, if I'm gonna have to shell out major coin to take advantage of an HD upgrade (SuperDish) when I was lead to believe that the 6000 HD module would guarantee future HD delivery - heck why would I ever trust anything Dish says in the future??? As an early adopter, I'm willing to pay a tad more to be the first on the block - but I'm smelling "class action lawsuit" here . . .


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## wmayo (Dec 1, 2002)

If .... " People would flip for a package that included the announce HDTV -- DHDT, ESPN-HD, HDnet/movies, InHD, BravoHD, etc -- PLUS a bunch of channels in Enhanced definition."
... then Dish would be nuts to miss their "window" of a chance of a big grab at Dtv subs. So, it would be to their advantage to announce as soon as possible, and not play a last minute surprise game.

" They will have to go with 110 if they are starting on 8/15." ... You are so right. Further, I would say if they're even thinking Sept, or Oct. they couldn't have the 205 slot moved, tested, verified, and ready by then.

Well, the speculation is interesting (and fun for some), but we have the next piece shortly with the Chat Monday.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

In a way I think its stupid for them to put it on 110 unless they tell the customers that it is temporary because if they dont, it will make them very mad and I would expect a free upgrade to the SuperDish. Maybe this is what they plan on doing, just selling this one channel for the price of the package and later on if you want the other channels you have to get the SuperDish to get the rest of the channels in the package, just as you do with having to get a dish500 to get the 110 channels on top150 packages.


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## Mike123abc (Jul 19, 2002)

One can understand why Dish is not in any hurry to do HDTV... They know at this time they have a huge lead on DirecTV when it comes to HDTV carrying capacity. They know D-7s is still on the ground and will not go up any time soon. They know people are unhappy when DirecTV tries to cram 2 HDTV channels on one transponder using QPSK. They also know that even when D-7s gets up into orbit, Echostar will still have a lot more capacity (of course all that capacity does not do them any good if there are no more HDTV channels to carry).

They essentially are not in a hurry. They know they can take their time and wait a couple months, the customers cannot/will not jump ship (either have to wait for the initial commitment or already have too much invested in equipment to jump for a short term advantage).

I think their main worry now is that they do not want to put HDTV on 110 permanently. I still am not convinced that AMC-2 will have the power to work well without rain fade on a small dish like superdish (60 watts/transponder, vs 110 watts on 61.5 and AMC-15 the replacement for AMC-2 going up next year). The worry is as Jacob mentioned above, they do not want to pay to have everyone get upgraded to superdish because they move stuff from 110 to 105.

There is also the Philly market problem. Right now Philadelphia has to point to 4 satellites (129 for locals, 119, 110, 61.5) and that appears to be the limit for the 6000. If they want to put HDTV on 105 they are going to have to come up with another solution for Philadelphia.

Lots of questions waiting to be answered, but as pointed out above they are really not under too much time pressure.


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## bills976 (Jun 30, 2002)

Mike123abc said:


> There is also the Philly market problem. Right now Philadelphia has to point to 4 satellites (129 for locals, 119, 110, 61.5) and that appears to be the limit for the 6000. If they want to put HDTV on 105 they are going to have to come up with another solution for Philadelphia.


I totally forgot about this. What they _should_ do is put the Philly locals on 110 and then leave HD for 105. What they'll probably do is put Philly on 105, upgrade those who point at 129 with a SuperDish, and try to use that to coax them into HD. Either way, I think the days are numbered for the Philly locals at 129 unless either Dish can upgrade the 6000's software, or they want to play games with the FCC again.



Mike123abc said:


> Lots of questions waiting to be answered, but as pointed out above they are really not under too much time pressure.


I guess we'll have to agree to disagree here. Right now Dish has cable and Directv to compete with in terms of HD, and to be able to advertise an HD package IMO is a major thing to have at your disposal. Cable still doesn't have HD here, so Directv is the only competetor. And unless you're devoted to CBSHD, Directv has the better HD package. I think it's imperative for them to at least be able to advertise HDNet as soon as possible to remain competetive in the HD market.


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## bluuz (Jul 3, 2003)

Hope it's true and I hope Dish initially makes the channels available on 65.1 or 110. Comcast is launching HD in my area next month as well, and I have been seriously considering switching. If this is going to happen, a defininitive announcement very soon would be nice.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

Dish may be able to use that oval dish they are using at 129 to repoint to 105, 110, 119 slots if they move the Philly locals to 110 or 105. They may have to do an upgrade to the lnbf and repoint but they would not have the cost of having to install a whole new dish and possibly lnbf's nor the dish.


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## MikeJ (May 1, 2003)

Comcast in Denver will be adding HDTV by September. This is in Echostar's backyard. So DISH better get moving on adding more HDTV.


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## Jeff_R (Jun 11, 2002)

bluuz said:


> Hope it's true and I hope Dish initially makes the channels available on 61.5 or 110. Comcast is launching HD in my area next month as well, and I have been seriously considering switching. If this is going to happen, a defininitive announcement very soon would be nice.


Don't hold your breath for anything substantial from Comcast. For three months now, all they have had available in my area is ABC, NBC, HBO, and Sho. It would appear that most of us will be getting InHD at launch, but no word from Comcast. They appear to have a strategy they are working, to the detriment of their viewers.

I will be completely dropping Comcast in another month or so. I'm glad I've kept my Dish 6000 and the HD programming sub going!

Jeff


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## Chris Freeland (Mar 24, 2002)

Comcast here in Chattanooga does not even offer HD yet and I do not know when they will. We can get 3 or 4 digital channels ota here but if I am not mistaken they are operating in LP mode at this time. For all practical purposes the only way to get HDTV here for most of us here in the Chattanooga markert of any kind is through E* or D*.


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## jerryez (Nov 15, 2002)

My Discovery HD subscripton expires on July 17th. I am not renewing it at $85.88 per year or $8. per month. If they included it in a package of 6 channels for $10.95, I would subscribe. I only subscribed to Disc HD to get the module and so far the module is worthless.


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## bluuz (Jul 3, 2003)

Jeff_R said:


> Don't hold your breath for anything substantial from Comcast. For three months now, all they have had available in my area is ABC, NBC, HBO, and Sho.


Yep, that's exactly what we're getting. No CBS. But I watch mostly HBO-HD and SHO-HD on Dish anyway, and have a hard time receiving ABC, NBC and CBS OTA. If Comcast was going to include my CBS affiliate I'd sign up as soon as the package goes live, and if they add ESPN-HD or some other decent channel like HD-NET, I'm there.

I'll probably give at least until Dish 'till Chistmas to add something. But I'm not paying too much attention to any Dish announcements or PR. I'll believe there is more HD on Dish when I can actually tune in the channels.


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## Jeff_R (Jun 11, 2002)

bluuz said:


> Yep, that's exactly what we're getting. No CBS. But I watch mostly HBO-HD and SHO-HD on Dish anyway, and have a hard time receiving ABC, NBC and CBS OTA. If Comcast was going to include my CBS affiliate I'd sign up as soon as the package goes live, and if they add ESPN-HD or some other decent channel like HD-NET, I'm there.
> 
> I'll probably give at least until Dish 'till Chistmas to add something. But I'm not paying too much attention to any Dish announcements or PR. I'll believe there is more HD on Dish when I can actually tune in the channels.


Unless ESPN gives Comcast the HD feed at no cost, it's not very likely that Comcast will add it.

From what I can see, Comcast is going to try to split the market. They won't pay for any HD channels, but they will be attempting to build a package with unique content. For example, Comcast Sportsnet in Philly and DC, and InHD which they are supervising the launch of. According to several internet forums, Bravo HD isn't going to cost additional, so they might include that, as well. As long as HDNet and Disney want money to carry their products, don't look for it on Comcast.


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## Guest (Jul 13, 2003)

Same old Charlie trick. If you can't offer a competitive product now, start a rumour that your future product will be better. You guys are being played.

Maybe when Charlie is done with the satellite business, he can be a politician.


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## kstevens (Mar 26, 2003)

jzoomer said:


> Same old Charlie trick. If you can't offer a competitive product now, start a rumour that your future product will be better. You guys are being played.
> 
> Maybe when Charlie is done with the satellite business, he can be a politician.


yeah, he sounds almost as slick as you....

Ken


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## Lee L (Aug 15, 2002)

Man, the dissapointments keep coming. Sure, many Dish customers know nothing about all the rumors we have heard but darn Charlie, throw us a bone here. We are the people that evangelize this stuff to our friends and co-workers, we are the ones they turn to with questions. Give us some info rather than stuff that never happens. At the very least, do what others suggested and tell us, "We have a package in the works and it will be announced on the next Charlie Chat Aug 11" Please do not say you are the HD leader or you plan to be the HD leader unless you are willing to back it up with announcements and real dates. Hardware is only half of the equation and worthless with no programming.


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## Guest (Jul 14, 2003)

kstevens said:


> yeah, he sounds almost as slick as you....
> 
> Ken


Oh no someone insulted Ken's beloved hero


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

tahoerob said:


> I am sure Playboy HD would be a top seller!!!!!!!!!!!


Actually, the ladies probably look better in Standard Def. HD would show every stretch mark, and every "imperfection" that good lighting and a slightly fuzzy lens gloss(ie) over.


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

Hey, if I were DirecTV I'd start an ad campaign ridiculing E*. Emphasize the no Baseball/NFL Football problem. Make fun of their lack of HD Receivers from the self professed "leader"of HD (since the 6000 is discontinued, I don't count it). Show how the "HD Leader" is falling behind.

Even make fun of their ad about the rolling HD truck tour they are using to showcase HDTV. Only TWO of the channels listed are in HDTV. All the rest are standard def channels....

http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/products/hdtv_truck/index.shtml

Since I'm an entrenched E* viewer I want these things to be fixed, and I'm hoping that the open ridicule might get them to change. Because the low budget America West-like approach they are using now is working as they continue to add more subscribers each quarter when compared to DirecTV, so his lack of direction isn't perceived as hurting them.


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

jzoomer said:


> Same old Charlie trick. If you can't offer a competitive product now, start a rumour that your future product will be better. You guys are being played.
> 
> Maybe when Charlie is done with the satellite business, he can be a politician.


Hey why not!

Rich and Powerfull 

If Jerry Springer wants to be one or thinking about it anyhow (forgot the whole story), Charlie surely can also...

Would not be the first or last time for unique character..
(Ronald Regan, etc...)


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## Bobby94928 (May 12, 2003)

BobMurdoch said:


> Hey, if I were DirecTV I'd start an ad campaign ridiculing E*. Emphasize the no Baseball/NFL Football problem. Make fun of their lack of HD Receivers from the self professed "leader"of HD (since the 6000 is discontinued, I don't count it). Show how the "HD Leader" is falling behind.
> 
> Even make fun of their ad about the rolling HD truck tour they are using to showcase HDTV. Only TWO of the channels listed are in HDTV. All the rest are standard def channels....
> 
> ...


Ever hear the old adage "good things come to those who wait?" I am positive that Charlie has an ace up his sleeve and if DirecTV were to go on a campaign like is listed here, who's face gets egged. It's too early to play that game. We'll know in a month and a half just where things are and E* will be the leader. Charlie is smart to not have a knee jerk reaction to D*'s HD package. Do it right the first time and you'll make a serious dent in the competition.


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## Curtis0620 (Apr 22, 2002)

Charlie do it right the first time?

That's too funny.


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## Tusk (Nov 14, 2002)

BobMurdoch said:


> Actually, the ladies probably look better in Standard Def. HD would show every stretch mark, and every "imperfection" that good lighting and a slightly fuzzy lens gloss(ie) over.


http://www.tvpredictions.com/playboyhdtv070803.html

Check out this information


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

> Hardware is only half of the equation and worthless with no programming.


Just as programming is worthless with no hardware. I see no new additions *until* the hardware is readily available to take advantage of the programming. Look for simultaneous announcements of the release of the 921 in volume and the addition of HD Programming.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

Do it right the first time? Too late when it comes to PVR's but I guess that depends on who you ask. Good that Dish offers free PVR first but bad on more hardware reliability issues.


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## Guest (Jul 14, 2003)

If in fact E* does have a major advantage over D* regarding space to add HD channels then why not let their HD subscribers know their upcoming strategy? If they are not under any time to market time constraints, then why wait until the last minute to make an announcement? If E* is waiting to announce to make sure D* can't beat them to market or match the HD they are providing in a short time frame then the time advantage that E* supposedly holds is incorrect assumption.

I also realize that the majority of people that would like to view HD are definitely interested in PQ. So, with E* holding that advantage w/o compression and the ability to add more HD channels than D* they could be the leader if they would allow themselves to be.

I'm not asking for trade secrets from E*, I'm talking about a gameplan involving HD technology with some dates attached. Without seeing a strategy and a definite plan of rollout it makes me feel that they don't know which way they are headed.


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

Playboy TV President Jim English says his company is not planning to launch a High-Definition channel anytime soon...some adult film stars _would not look very attractive_ :eek2: through the naked lens of HDTV...it delivers a picture so clear that many have compared it to looking through a window. "_A lot of the girls are not that pretty_...you can only do so much with hair and make-up...adult films are all about the close-up. With surgeries and implants, I don't know if (viewers would) want to see _everything_ in HDTV."
Surgeries?...implants? :barf:

Say it ain't so, Jim, :crying: say it ain't so! Can't you airbrush each frame of the video like you do those _purrfect_ pictures in Playboy :facelick: Magazine so us guys can hold on to our totally unrealistic fantasies? 
Can'tcha, huh! :icon_kiff
.
.


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## DarrellP (Apr 24, 2002)

See this thread concerning Playboy in HD.

Be sure to follow some of the links on this page. There is one link called The List and it takes you to a page of who looks better/worse in HD. There is a link specifically for Cameron Diaz on why she hates HD and if anyone saw her on Leno a couple of weeks ago, you will understand why she wore the dress that she did. She didn't want anyone looking too intently at her face.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

I would rather TEN or Extasy go up in HD than Playboy as they are better. I know this because of a few customers that had order those. I had to check to make sure they had the channels.


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

One thing though, my PVR must be malfunctioning again. On TEN the picture would inexplicably jump forward 30 seconds and miss the "happy ending".

:rotfl:


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## DarrellP (Apr 24, 2002)

Jacob S said:


> I would rather TEN or Extasy go up in HD than Playboy as they are better. I know this because of a few customers that had order those. I had to check to make sure they had the channels.


Good excuse, Jacob. :lol: Must be a tough job. :eek2:


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

hehe - and i had AVATAR with Faces ONLY.... of nice 2 girls and was "flamed" for it


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## bluuz (Jul 3, 2003)

There are currently so few subscribers to the Directv HD package that I doubt Dish is too concerned from a competitive standpoint. After all, they make their money mostly by supplying SD channels, and the bigger money is brought in by adding locals. The short-term profit is in adding locals, while profit from HD is still far in the future.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

I agree. This is why most of the attention is going to adding locals because this will bring more subs than any other channel additions at this time.


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## Guest (Jul 15, 2003)

Sorry I missed the tech chat. But I did read this entire thread including the summary at the beginning. So, what was the MAJOR SURPRISE that was announced? Am I missing something?


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## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

So far the major surprise was the price of the 811, which was $299.

As expected no programming information was announced on the Tech Chat, they are saving those things for the Charlie Chats.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

Scott Greczkowski said:


> So far the major surprise was the price of the 811, which was $299.
> 
> As expected no programming information was announced on the Tech Chat, they are saving those things for the Charlie Chats.


Scott, over in this thread http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=16789 there are a couple of folks saying that the 811 $299 price is wrong, that it's $499. I know I heard $299 and could sware I saw a graphic that said $299 but a few say $499. Can you please clearify or set these folks straight??? Thanks


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## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

It's $299.


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

Could be just D* cheerleaders fretting that they can't whine about E*'s expensive receivers anymore....


Just kidding! Put down the flamethrowers, please.


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## DarrellP (Apr 24, 2002)

The 811 looks like a great buy at $299. I really like the DVI output and the simultaneous HD/SD output.


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## Cyclone (Jul 1, 2002)

Well it stink that HDNet will have to wait until Super Dish. I was hoping that it would at least appear on 61.5 for a litttle while.


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## DarrellP (Apr 24, 2002)

Hey Scott, if HDNET is debuting on Aug 15th, how will they distribute it without Super Dish? Last night they said absolutely no HD on 110. Will it go to the side slots initially?


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## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

Beats me. 

Dont forget last time when Discovery HD was starting Charlie commented 3 days before its debut that they had no plans to add Discovery HD (And again 3 days later Discovery HD launched on Dish Network) 

Never say never!


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## nostar (Jun 22, 2003)

Cyclone said:


> Well it stink that HDNet will have to wait until Super Dish. I was hoping that it would at least appear on 61.5 for a litttle while.


How about taking down the Demo channel and put HDNet there. I don't see much point in demonstrating something you don't have.


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## Cyclone (Jul 1, 2002)

Heck, they can even stick it on the HDEvents channel while its not in use for NBA-TV also.


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## Claude Greiner (Apr 24, 2002)

First of all Dishnetwork will not launch any HDTV content at 110. Even if it was on a Temporary basis, they would basically be committing themselves to a FREE SuperDish upgrade to just about everyone who subscribed to that channel.

You really got to understand how customers think to see the reasoning behind it. You can tell a customer 100 times that HD net or whatever new HD programming they put at 110 is on a temporary basis and eventually they will need to buy a SuperDish. A customer will agree with it, but the second you remove the channel from their service, they are going to call in and (B I T C H) that they can't get the channel and don't see why they have to pay to upgrade to a SuperDish to get something they where able to get before. 

Im sure everyone on this board, would have no problem getting the channel now with the understanding that they have to upgrade later, but there are too many customers who will cause a stink over this when they have to pay for the upgrade. Its happened to to Dishnetwork too many times in the past, and these people have already ruined the possibility that we might see HD at 110 on a temporary basis in the future.

Second of all, Dishnetwork is not in competition with Directv or any other cable company for HDTV subscribers right now because its not costing them any customers. First of all a Majority of their HDTV customers, do not even know what other HDTV content is out there, or even have a Clue on what other HDTV content Directv has to offer. These customers are happy with what they got right now, and are totally un-aware of the crap that Echostar is giving us about getting new HDTV content. 

The only real customers causing a stink over this issue is several hundred members on 3-4 internet discussion boards. Big Deal! We all have several hundred dollers invested in Echostar equipment and more than likely either already have a Directv system which we use in addition to our Dishnetwork, or will not make the effort to switch providers for (2) more HDTV channels.

Heres whats going to happen.....

First of all Echostar is going to get a Satellite over to the 105 Degree Slot. If the satellite has a decent signal, they will start rolling out SuperDish and will at the same time Launch the new HDTV channels.

Second of all, there will be an upgrade program in place for existing customers to get a SuperDish with a low upfront cost as they have with other upgrades in the past.

Finally, Dish is in no rush to get things moving. Im almost ready to bet that we won't see anything till April 2004. Maybe October 2003 or Christmass if we are luckey.


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## Cyclone (Jul 1, 2002)

> The only real customers causing a stink over this issue is several hundred members on 3-4 internet discussion boards


There's a fourth? I've got dbstalk, dbsforum, & avsforum. What would be the fourth?


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## Claude Greiner (Apr 24, 2002)

Dishretailer.com


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## nostar (Jun 22, 2003)

Ok. I have some questions. How many HD customers does Dish Network have? We could be in the minority and are not really significant to overall Dish Network programing strategy. I don't know. Why are they coming out with these new products for HD, not to mention all of the products that they have already marketed. As far as Direct Tv and cable not being in competition with Dish. How does that work?

I was in favor of the merger. Dumb me!


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## Jeff_R (Jun 11, 2002)

nostar said:


> Ok. I have some questions. How many HD customers does Dish Network have? We could be in the minority and are not really significant to overall Dish Network programing strategy. I don't know. Why are they coming out with these new products for HD, not to mention all of the products that they have already marketed. As far as Direct Tv and cable not being in competition with Dish. How does that work?
> 
> I was in favor of the merger. Dumb me!


We HD viewers are currently a pretty small percentage of Dish customers. They are in the process of changing their HD strategy since the merger didn't happen. I understand that.

They are attempting to get their HD strategy completed and launched before adding too many more HD subs. That's why there are no new receivers, and no new channel offerings.

What is really annoying several of us is that we have subbed to dish for a long time, bought all of the hardware they tell us we have to buy, then get told there's just one more thing we have to get.

Will they miss us as we switch to their competitor? Sure. HD customers I'm sure are some of their best and highest paying customers. Will they make any effort to keep us? Probably not!


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

The minority here represents the customer base as a whole in a sense. Why do you think Dish comes here to read the information and takes our ideas and uses them?

Also I had said again and again that I doubted Dish putting HD at 110 even temporarily due to the fact that it would make customers mad that they had the channel then had to upgrade to a dish later and people will wonder why change it when its already at 110 and expect a free upgrade or a very good promotion. Why put the channels there in the first place if you dont have enough room for them there in the first place? Either you have enough room for them there or you dont. I know what some had meant by having a few HD channels there at 110 but Dish wants to give people a reason to get the SuperDish just like they did with the top 150 channels and locals.


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## Lee L (Aug 15, 2002)

Jacob S said:


> The minority here represents the customer base as a whole in a sense. Why do you think Dish comes here to read the information and takes our ideas and uses them?
> 
> Also I had said again and again that I doubted Dish putting HD at 110 even temporarily due to the fact that it would make customers mad that they had the channel then had to upgrade to a dish later and people will wonder why change it when its already at 110 and expect a free upgrade or a very good promotion.


But Dish has no problem telling us, buy the new 8VSB adapter to all new channels added to Dish Network in the future but then make us pay for another dish later on.


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

Claude Greiner said:


> Dishretailer.com


Regular people can't register there?

For Retailers only?


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## Cyclone (Jul 1, 2002)

Lee L said:


> But Dish has no problem telling us, buy the new 8VSB adapter to all new channels added to Dish Network in the future but then make us pay for another dish later on.


Well, you do need the 8PSK adapter to get SuperDish HD on your 6000.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

Does MPEG-4 or other more advanced receivers able to offer more compression to allow more HD channel or be able to be produced? If so then why do they not make a receiver with both MPEG-2 and the other type of encryption/technology in the same receiver for those that want HD channels?


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## HTguy (May 7, 2002)

Darkman said:


> Regular people can't register there?
> 
> For Retailers only?


Doesn't the name answer your 2nd question?

To answer the 1st question: Retailers are regular people. (At least most of us...I'm not sure about Claude.)


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## wstanko (Jun 17, 2002)

I know that few people at Dish care, but I cancelled my renew to HD Discovery today. The CSR knew the drill very well. She had it done quickly, and with no questions. Sure, I cut off my nose to spite my face, but I only paid for the year subscription in anticipation of needing the 8VSP for all the expansion. Some of you have pointed out that it is still necessary for my further future expansion, but that does not calm the sting.

As I read the AVS forum I roll my eyes in disguest. Already the D* people are tired of the shabby amount of ESPN HD and its quality. They should be in my family room!

Now they write that they have tired of HDNET and who watches it anyways! They should be in my family room!

The movies on HDNET are not good enough to justify the money. I quit that HD Package, it is a ripoff. They should be in my family room!

Sure, every dog has his day; but after football season is over, only the log rolling championship will be worth watching in my living room!

I'm going out to cut the grass.


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## DarrellP (Apr 24, 2002)

Regarding the new HD Package: Does anyone know if Dish will require sub to a base package like D* does? If they do, they can count me out if it's more than the Top 50. I pay too much for TV already and with all the HD I get for free, I don't need to pay for it.


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

HTguy said:


> Doesn't the name answer your 2nd question?
> 
> To answer the 1st question: Retailers are regular people. (At least most of us...I'm not sure about Claude.)


hehe - Cute :lol:

I guess "non-Retailers" would have been more appropriate word then :nono:


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

Cyclone said:


> There's a fourth? I've got dbstalk, dbsforum, & avsforum. What would be the fourth?


Relax, Cyclone. There are probably a couple dozen tech sites/forums out there with a solid HDTV contingent - some quite advanced.

Just do a google search on "hdtv" and take a look around. Also, check out some of the newsgroups.


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## Martyva (Apr 23, 2002)

Google--HDTV Lee Wood ezboard--He posts news daily a good guy offers easy access to daily HD news---used to frequent DVS Forums a lot


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## Cyclone (Jul 1, 2002)

Yeah, I have the Lee Wood site bookmarked and visit it almost daily.


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

Cyclone said:


> Yeah, I have the Lee Wood site bookmarked and visit it almost daily.


Link, please.


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## Bobby94928 (May 12, 2003)

Nick said:


> Link, please.


http://pub1.ezboard.com/fdigitaltelevisionhdtvforumhdtvdigitaltelevisionnewsforum

For whatever reason, the link is leaving a space between the "e" and the "w" in newsforum. You will have to remove that space.


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

Close enough. You got me in the neighborhood and I could smell the dust cooking on the HD circuit boards.

Try this: link

http://pub1.ezboard.com/bdigitaltelevisionhdtvforum


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## Danny R (Jul 5, 2002)

What are the odds that this new package will be included in the "Everything Pack?" Perhaps a new name for that service is in order?


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## DarrellP (Apr 24, 2002)

Lee Wood is the station engineer for our local CBS: KOIN. He is a great guy and really answers our concerns quickly. He is really dedicated to HD.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

I doubt that HD channels will be included in AEP for a while until HD goes more mainstream then perhaps in the future it may. Until then perhaps there will be an AEP plus/AEP HD package.


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

> _What are the odds that this new package will be included in the "Everything Pack?"_


I checked with my bookie. He said Vegas is laying odds at a gazillion to one.

Any HD programming offered as a package will be ala carte. Otherwise, whatever package it is added to (AEP) would go up significantly in price. Trust me, just a small percentage of Dish subs will opt for HD on sat in the first four or five years after it is announced, _whenever_ it is announced. Until entry costs come down substantially, HD will remain a niche market for years to come.


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## Martyva (Apr 23, 2002)

HD equipment is less expensive than analog was 5 years ago and in some cases 3 years ago. While available programming needs to increase, high equipment price in illusional.


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

Sorry, but one man's _"illusional"_ is another man's reality. For me, upwards of $3,500 sans programming is definitely not an illusion. HDTV + warranty + taxes + 921 + superdish + labor + programming = my reality, an amount that, not being made of money, I may not be able to justify. After all, it's only tv.

Woody Allen's famous quote on the cost of sex... _"I've had sex for money, and I've had sex for free. Sex for money is cheaper."_

To very loosely paraphrase the woodman... _I've watched TV for free, and I've watched TV for money, and watching TV for free is cheaper!_ 
.
.


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## William Millar (Jul 14, 2002)

This information appears on Lee Woods site. It says that Dish network will carry HDNET auto racing in August.

http://broadcastengineering.com/ar/broadcasting_largest_hd_auto/index.htm

Bill


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

HDTV: A complex and fairly expensive venture, whereby man attempts to duplicate, through technology, the view he could enjoy by simply looking out his window.


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## Martyva (Apr 23, 2002)

But if you're looking out your window, what do you do with the beer and potato chips?


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## Guest (Jul 19, 2003)

Martyva said:


> But if you're looking out your window, what do you do with the beer and potato chips?


Uh, drink the brews and munch the chips?

"Beer ain't just for football anymore!"


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## AllieVi (Apr 10, 2002)

Nick said:


> ...Trust me, just a small percentage of Dish subs will opt for HD on sat in the first four or five years after it is announced, _whenever_ it is announced. Until entry costs come down substantially, HD will remain a niche market for years to come.


I agree. The BIG BUCKS the satellite companies will have to spend up front to deliver HD must be recouped in some way. The result will either be losses in their annual reports or higher (MUCH higher?) costs to the relatively few people who subscribe.


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## Guest (Jul 19, 2003)

AllieVi said:


> I agree. The BIG BUCKS the satellite companies will have to spend up front to deliver HD must be recouped in some way. The result will either be losses in their annual reports or higher (MUCH higher?) costs to the relatively few people who subscribe.


Take this opportunity to educate me (perhaps others) why HD is costing the DBS companies BIG BUCKS.

Programming producers are experiencing increased production cost for HD. They are delivering this to the DBS companies.

DBS companies have to (enter here the reason for big bucks) transmit the HD signal over existing satellites.

We HD consumers have to BUY equipment to receive, decode and display HD.

Now, granted they are launching new satellites, but that is the cost of staying in a competitive business. Bandwidth demand will always be increasing. Their increased cost is not a result of choosing to deliver HD, it's a result of needing to stay at the front of a competitive market place. They are just using HD as the scapegoat for keeping up.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

Yea know, I'm getting a bit tired of how so and so has to spend big bucks, with little immediate payback, in order to do DTV/HDTV. If this same attitude was prevelant back in the early 50's we'd still be waiting for regular over the air television to be implemented. Why spend all the $'s building a studio/transmitter/antenna when only a few people have a TV set to watch the signal. 

Face it, the networks/stations/DBS companies need to face up the fact that they need to spend the $'s now, with no immediate payback, to position themselves for when joe six pack starts getting into the DTV/HDTV market. They've been making a ton of money off of us for decades, it's time to cut the profits for a few years in order to make this transistion happen. If E* and D* didn't start spending the $'s now they could watch their market share shrink since cable TV providers are upgrading their physical plant now in order to provide HDTV programming. I know when Comcast finishes upgrading my system if they have a better package of HDTV programming available I'd have to give dumping E* a very hard look since their current HD lineup isn't cutting it vs. what's available via other providers. So if Charlie wants to keep me as a >$110/month customer he better give me a free SuperDish upgrade and get the programming that they keep saying that they provide out there ASAP. Comcast just finished pulling fiber in my neighborhood and Charlie's running out of time.


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## AllieVi (Apr 10, 2002)

gpflepsen said:


> Take this opportunity to educate me (perhaps others) why HD is costing the DBS companies BIG BUCKS.
> 
> Programming producers are experiencing increased production cost for HD. They are delivering this to the DBS companies.
> 
> ...


You asked about the bucks... Let me hypothesize a little.

We're told that it costs something in the neighborhood of $250-300 million to procure and launch a satellite. Additional uplink capabilities would also be required and probably more people, too. Let's say the total cost of one satellite worth of additional HD channels is on the order of $500 million when all the costs are totaled. Using that number, if one million DISH customers subscribe to HD, the "share" of the cost for each would be $500. If Charlie could net $10/month per HD subscriber through fees, the investment would be recovered in about 4 years.

I have no idea how many DISH customers subscribe to HD, but I doubt it's anything like a million. If it's 100,000 instead, the cost of the additional channels per HD subscriber would be $5,000 and the fees would have to be a bit higher. Whatever the number actually is, DISH will have to recoup the cost from someone.

If DISH doesn't have money in the bank to pay for the launch/upgrade directly, it would also have to collect enough in fees to pay the interest on any borrowed funds. Operation and maintenance costs would have to be covered, as would any subsidization of the cost of purchasing receivers and dishes. They may even want you to *BUY* the needed dishes... :eek2:

This example discusses the implications of adding just HD channels, not other "keeping up with the Joneses" costs.

No doubt Charlie hopes to increase the HD subscribership by offering more channels, but the price he has to charge may be higher than anyone suspects.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

I SERIOUSLY doubt that it would cost that much. If it did then they would NOT be doing HD for a while because it would not make business sense to them. It probably costs them just a fraction of that amount but still yet cost them enough to where it is still a pretty darn good investment in each customer.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

> the view he could enjoy by simply looking out his window


Yea, but on television I don't have to wash my windows.


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

...but you do have to clean all those tiny little gecko footprints off your screen. :lol:


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## AndyMon (Jun 12, 2003)

AllieVi said:


> You asked about the bucks... Let me hypothesize a little.
> 
> .......................................................... Whatever the number actually is, DISH will have to recoup the cost from someone.
> 
> ...


Actually, if they wish to remain competitive in the market place, they have little choice. There is a real battle brewing out there between sat and cable operators for a finite number of subs. Perception is quite important. The number of folks buying digital 16x9 tvs will be growing exponentially in the not so distant future and DISH needs to be positioned to take advantage of the growing demand. We early adopters will suffer as the field gets positioned but we will also be the early beneficiaries as the growing pains will not be without some benefits. 
So, while we will suffer and pay some, we will also benefit some but DISH will have to ante up in any event. I'm not so egotistical to believe they're doing it just for me <G>, nor am I planning on footing the bulk of the bill for their investment in their future.


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## Guest (Jul 21, 2003)

AndyMon said:


> ... footing the bulk of the bill for their investment in their future.


This is my exact *****in' point.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

> but you do have to clean all those tiny little gecko footprints off your screen.


I keep telling him to wipe his feet when he gets out of his pool, but he never listens. :lol:


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## nostar (Jun 22, 2003)

AndyMon said:


> Actually, if they wish to remain competitive in the market place, they have little choice. There is a real battle brewing out there between sat and cable operators for a finite number of subs. Perception is quite important. The number of folks buying digital 16x9 tvs will be growing exponentially in the not so distant future and DISH needs to be positioned to take advantage of the growing demand. We early adopters will suffer as the field gets positioned but we will also be the early beneficiaries as the growing pains will not be without some benefits.
> So, while we will suffer and pay some, we will also benefit some but DISH will have to ante up in any event. I'm not so egotistical to believe they're doing it just for me <G>, nor am I planning on footing the bulk of the bill for their investment in their future.


This is all so true, except for the suffering and the paying. I have already suffered and payed. I refuse to spend another dime until the HD programing and the equipment to receiver it is in place and if something else comes along in the interim, fine.

This company(Dish Network) is jerking us around because we are enthusiasts. They will have to eventually switch to HD, not to please us but to be competitive in the future.

I have one HD channel (HBO) and it's great, but I spent over a $1000.00 to get it.

I can't get CBS and I don't want Pay Per View, as it is overpriced. Discovery is redundant and overpriced. Showtime looks like it's mostly up converted scuff. Sometimes I watch the Demo channel! They took the info channel. I used to watch it a lot.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

I am going to wait until HD matures before putting any money into it because it will improve, prices will go down, and there will be more common standards without having to upgrade so often.


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## dmodemd (Jul 5, 2002)

Too bad for you...

I was thinking the same way but then bit the bullet and got the TV and Dish 6000. Its been over a year, my TV is still on the market and about $200-300 less than what I paid for it. The Dish 6000 is still the ONLY HD receiver now available on Dish. I paid for Discovery HD but got the adapter for free. So by going last year instead of now it cost me about $300-400 extra but I got a years worth of Discovery with everything else. That comes to about $30 a month. Its been worth it to me no doubt. I may be a little lucky cuz I get the following HD capable channels:

2 CBS, 2 ABC, 2 NBC, 1 FOX, 2 PBS, 1 WB, HBO HD, SHO HD, DiscHD

It's been fun!


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

There are no HD local channels here and even if there were I may not be able to pick up the signal anyways even if it was at full power due to hills, mountains, and trees.


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## AllieVi (Apr 10, 2002)

fv3 said:


> Fortunately, Dish does not have to procure the satellite, because SES Americom already has it in orbit. So all Dish has to do is lease the transponders they want/need.


The fact that DISH doesn't have to launch a new satellite certainly means that it can initiate service sooner. But if space is leased from another company, I would expect the owner of that satellite to charge leasing fees that cover their actual cost and also earn money in the process (in proportion to the relative capacity leased, of course). If DISH could somehow lease an entire satellite's capability, the cost should be at least as high as launching one.


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## Marcus S (Apr 23, 2002)

I like C-band, I have every HD channel known to man and god while E* scrambles for sky wars & crazy 3/4 dish solutions. I wonder to believe that *D actually has the end card, they own Primestar's old sats and PamSat both capable of Ku band. Drop one into an existing satslot, and wallah another 100 SDTV channels / 20 HD's.


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## Mike123abc (Jul 19, 2002)

AllieVi said:


> The fact that DISH doesn't have to launch a new satellite certainly means that it can initiate service sooner. But if space is leased from another company, I would expect the owner of that satellite to charge leasing fees that cover their actual cost and also earn money in the process (in proportion to the relative capacity leased, of course). If DISH could somehow lease an entire satellite's capability, the cost should be at least as high as launching one.


Actually there is a glut of KU-FSS out there and Dish probably picked up the extra capacity on the cheap. Plus they are just using KU-FSS and these slots also have C and KA bands on them, so probably only part of the satellite cost.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

Its nice not having to move a big dish around having a multi-satellite solution, and having to wait for it to get from one location to another to watch a channel, and to have multiple receivers on one dish. That is a good advantage along with the pvr receivers and movability of the receivers and dishes for travel. The receivers are also cheaper. The good thing about C-Band/BUD is that the programming is cheaper, more availability, and FTA. Good for hobbiests as well.


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