# Grey's Anatomy Stopped Recording???



## tknopf (Sep 12, 2004)

I was recording Grey's Anatomy in HD OTA and it stopped recording on BOTH of my HR20-100 receivers...almost in the same spot. It just stopped at 30 minutes and there was a message that said, "Do you wish to delete?" or "No, cancel". HMMMMM!!!!


----------



## krock918316 (Mar 5, 2007)

We were watching it live, and didn't get a message. I just looked at the timer bar, and it is orange up to the 30 min mark, and green after.

It only recorded 30 minutes. Also OTA. Any one else have this problem?


----------



## ptimmerm (Jan 8, 2007)

Exact same problem here. Also stopped recording around the 45 minute mark.



krock918316 said:


> We were watching it live, and didn't get a message. I just looked at the timer bar, and it is orange up to the 30 min mark, and green after.
> 
> It only recorded 30 minutes. Also OTA. Any one else have this problem?


----------



## vertigo235 (Mar 18, 2007)

I had same problem, I thought I did it because I was playing arround in the list. Also check yours because Big Shots wasn't going to record anymore either.

This is my first season with an HR20, and I'm starting to see why people were complaining about this issue before.


----------



## flowbe209 (Aug 25, 2007)

Stopped on my HR20 after 31 minutes. My wife is not happy. What is the point of having a dvr if you have to watch the show when it is broadcast just to make sure the dvr works correctly.


----------



## rjknyy (Nov 18, 2005)

Yep, just looked. Stopped at 29 minutes, the wife is ticked.


----------



## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Same here, 30 minutes. Don't worry everyone, you can watch it on abc.com


----------



## scottrleo1 (Jul 13, 2006)

My wife is going to be pissed!


----------



## kenva (Dec 29, 2006)

I just checked and my recording using the HD local channel from the sat also quit at 30 minutes. D* must be sending or doing something with all the HR20 receivers. Just too much of a coincidence.


----------



## AtlHDTV (Nov 12, 2006)

Here in Atlanta too. Stopped at 29 minutes.


----------



## vollmey (Mar 23, 2007)

rjknyy said:


> Yep, just looked. Stopped at 29 minutes, the wife is ticked.


Same here, I just got a butt chewing.


----------



## NCMAT (Feb 13, 2007)

Strange thing is that in my playlist I have 2 copies of tonight's show. One is 1hr 2min (I padded it) and the other shows 29min both from the same channel.


----------



## jeffpickl (Sep 24, 2007)

I still have the HR10 receiver. Recorded 1:01. Must be specific to the HR20. Good thing I am keeping my HR10 after the HR20 comes.


----------



## Auraxr (May 26, 2007)

vollmey said:


> Same here, I just got a butt chewing.


Same here, but I accused the wife of messing it up


----------



## krock918316 (Mar 5, 2007)

I checked the history, and it says "The recording became unavailable (13)"


----------



## robdec (Jul 13, 2007)

Mine stopped at 28 min. Hr20, Atlanta, Sat channel not OTA


----------



## luckydob (Oct 2, 2006)

hey...at least you got 30 mins. The stupid HR20 didn't even start recording here. It is listed as priority #1 on the DVR and there was no other program scheduled to record except for ER, but this thing is supposed to have 2 tuners...right?!?!


----------



## joejhawk (Oct 3, 2006)

Recording stopped at 31 minutes, I noticed it at 9:47 and started it recording again hoping it would pick up the missed part of the show. However with the lack of DLB I was unable to do this. With DLB I would have been able to rewind the live buffer and record it.

Count me as another with a pissed off wife.


----------



## jimmyt (Mar 9, 2005)

same here... ota - stopped at 29 minutes.. in the history it said "partial" and this recording was stopped because it became unavailable.


----------



## sonofjay (Aug 30, 2006)

Yup, stopped recording here at 30 minutes in.


----------



## flowbe209 (Aug 25, 2007)

sigma1914 said:


> Same here, 30 minutes. Don't worry everyone, you can watch it on abc.com


Yep, that's why we all pay for DirecTv. So we can watch shows online for free. I know you are just trying to help, but someone needs to let us know the cause.


----------



## BamaPT (Jan 24, 2007)

Same problem here. 33 minutes in. And now for the first time since I got the thing in January, I'm having problems all the way around. Can't add the series (or anything for that matter)back into the To Do list after accidentally deleting. Also, when I tried to click the record button twice to a program I did have there (used to do this to record series) it now deletes the program.


----------



## flowbe209 (Aug 25, 2007)

joejhawk said:


> Recording stopped at 31 minutes, I noticed it at 9:47 and started it recording again hoping it would pick up the missed part of the show. However with the lack of DLB I was unable to do this. With DLB I would have been able to rewind the live buffer and record it.
> 
> Count me as another with a pissed off wife.


Same here. My wife called me into the room at 8:50. Pressed record from the guide hoping it would pick up from 8:31 to 8:50 and finish out the show but no luck.


----------



## FriscoJohnny (May 7, 2007)

Well, same here in Dallas. HR20-700 on 0x19E. Stopped recording at 30 minutes. "The recording became unavailable (13)"

Looking at my history, I have several programs that did not record or partially recorded with the following errors: 

Dan Rather Reports - Today - 5PM CDT - "The program is no longer available (13)"
Arrested Development - Today - 11:30AM CDT - "The program is no longer available (13)"
Dan Rather Reports - Today - 8AM CDT - "The program is no longer available (13)"

What's going on?


----------



## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

31 minutes here.. at least I noticed it, caught the last 10 minutes


----------



## renen (Jul 16, 2007)

The HR20-100, until it stop recording 31 minutes into the show, the audio and video were out of sync, after it was fine, but we were watching live.

My HR10-250 OTA could not play back the beginning, it would just lock up!

Rene


----------



## mika911 (May 2, 2006)

This was happening to me all week with Dancing with the Stars on 87 ABC. 

Something is up with these ABC primetime shows and the HR20. On monday, the dancing wasn't going to record, on tuesday it went ok, and then last night it stopped 23 minutes in.

I don't know about Grey's yet cause it doesn't air until 9pm pacific.


----------



## jdscrilla (Dec 29, 2006)

We got 28 minutes here on a HR20-700


----------



## priusguy (Dec 16, 2006)

Same here - stopped after 31 minutes. Clearly a systemic problem.


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

kenva said:


> I just checked and my recording using the HD local channel from the sat also quit at 30 minutes. D* must be sending or doing something with all the HR20 receivers. Just too much of a coincidence.


I was recording CSI at the same time (I didn't record Grey's)... and it recorded the entire event.

So I don't think DirecTV was "doing" anything with the HR20's at that time.

For all of these systems to have pretty much the EXACT same thing happen...
I would lean towards something in the guide data.

But it now after the event, so it is hard to see what was EXACTLY there at the time.


----------



## pete9976 (Nov 25, 2005)

Had the same thing here.


----------



## kramerboy (Mar 10, 2006)

OH BOY... My wife is really pissed! The season premier no less!

32 minutes in and the "recording became unavailable".... WAY TO GO Directv!!!

Please... before any apologist comes and says its the "data provider's" fault.. That is a lame excuse. The data might come form TMS but Directv should ultimately be responsible for the data it send down to its customers.


----------



## renen (Jul 16, 2007)

The problem appears to have been the ABC network, since I also had problems with the tivo HR10-250 recording the show OTA.


----------



## redram38 (Dec 7, 2005)

renen said:


> The problem appears to have been the ABC network, since I also had problems with the tivo HR10-250 recording the show OTA.


Not so sure about that. It recorded on my wifes R15-500. Could have been an issue with the HD feed I guess. But my HR20-100 stopped after 35 minutes but the R15 recorded it all.

I sure hope these issues get fixed soon. Lots of scheduled recordings cancel for no reason, Chuck and House, and now this.


----------



## MrLatte (Aug 19, 2007)

Same here - only recorded 30 minutes on my HR20-700. Good thing I still have my 7-year-old DSR6000 Series 1 TiVo connected! It appears to have the complete show recorded.

BTW, I was recording the SD channel on the HR20 - still only recorded half the show.


----------



## luckydob (Oct 2, 2006)

I pay D* for the service. I hold D* feet to the fire for these things...FWIW it recorded fine for my neighbor who has Comcast. Guess it wasn't ABC's fault.


----------



## richa65 (Dec 4, 2006)

Same here. HR20-100. Atlanta. Recording HD off the satellite not OTA. Got 29 minutes. Wife is not happy. And when the wife's not happy, no one is happy.

I had the same exact problem 2 days ago with Reaper. I also looked at my record history and have about 5 other instances of "Partial".


----------



## luckydob (Oct 2, 2006)

It's not D*'s fault...I mean it obviously is ABC or TMS's fault.

sorry...this was sarcasm.


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

luckydob said:


> I pay D* for the service. I hold D* feet to the fire for these things...FWIW it recorded fine for my neighbor who has Comcast. Guess it wasn't ABC's fault.





luckydob said:


> It's not D*'s fault...I mean it obviously is ABC or TMS's fault.


So which is it?

DirecTV's or ABC/TMS ?


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

kramerboy said:


> Please... before any apologist comes and says its the "data provider's" fault.. That is a lame excuse. The data might come form TMS but Directv should ultimately be responsible for the data it send down to its customers.


You are correct... they have a responsibility to their customer.

But how do you check for 1,000s channels worth of 24/7; 14 days worth of guide data.

Yes 1,000s+ channels if you include all the guide data (that is in the stream), for each and every local channel (both HD/SD)

So ultimately, in this scenerio... you have to count on the "provider" of the data, which would be TMS... and TMS has to count on who gives it to them.

DVRs will always have one cominality: GIGO. Garbage In - Garbage Out


----------



## MrLatte (Aug 19, 2007)

This may be a dumb question but where is the history of recordings on these HR20s?

Edit: Nevermind, I found the History entry in the menu. Darn non-TiVo menus...


----------



## flowbe209 (Aug 25, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> You are correct... they have a responsibility to their customer.
> 
> But how do you check for 1,000s channels worth of 24/7; 14 days worth of guide data.
> 
> ...


I'm new to DirecTv and I appreciate the info this site provides. What in the guide data would stop a program from recording right in the middle of it? I understand how it could happen if an hour long show was split into 2 30 minute shows in the guide, but this was listed as a single 1 hour (and 1 minute) show


----------



## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

NCMAT said:


> Strange thing is that in my playlist I have 2 copies of tonight's show. One is 1hr 2min (I padded it) and the other shows 29min both from the same channel.


So why do I have _TWO_ entries for it in my playlist? (1 "partial" and 1 "recorded") I have 3 separate 9 pm recordings, including CSI....


----------



## Sirshagg (Dec 30, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> You are correct... they have a responsibility to their customer.
> 
> But how do you check for 1,000s channels worth of 24/7; 14 days worth of guide data.
> 
> ...


It's always noce and easy to blame the guide data, and rightfully so sometimes, but if the Tivo's are not having the same issue then D* needs to get their rear in gear and get this fixed bad guide data or not as it can obviously be corrected (by Tivo). *Above all else a DVR should reliably record the shows you tell it to.*


----------



## sonofjay (Aug 30, 2006)

You know to the customer, it really doesn't matter who's "at fault". This "guide problem" happens enough and the HR20 is mature enough that DirecTV should be designing solutions to handle guide problems like this. Tolerance for out of spec data is and error handlers, or whatever is needed to make the DVR function as expected to the user, need to be made a priority and moved into place.

Hopefully, enough D* engineers, employees and execs were using the HR20 and were burned like we all were. Feeling our pain maybe they will work to find a solution to this because without it this is going to be a reocurring event and does nothing to further DirecTV's customer experience.


----------



## kramerboy (Mar 10, 2006)

K4SMX said:


> So why do I have _TWO_ entries for it in my playlist? (1 "partial" and 1 "recorded") I have 3 separate 9 pm recordings, including CSI....


Well, this is curious..... I also show the CSI 'partial' recording in my history with the comment "This showing is over." Never seen that message before.

The Office recorded just fine. Grey's Anatomy had the partial recording. I knew that CSI would not be recording since The Office and Grey's have the higher priority.

Why would CSI show up as a 'partial' when it wasn't set to record in the first place?????


----------



## kramerboy (Mar 10, 2006)

sonofjay said:


> You know to the customer, it really doesn't matter who's "at fault". This "guide problem" happens enough and the HR20 is mature enough that DirecTV should be designing solutions to handle guide problems like this. Tolerance for out of spec data is and error handlers, or whatever is needed to make the DVR function as expected to the user, need to be made a priority and moved into place.
> 
> Hopefully, enough D* engineers, employees and execs were using the HR20 and were burned like we all were. Feeling our pain maybe they will work to find a solution to this because without it this is going to be a reocurring event and does nothing to further DirecTV's customer experience.


+1


----------



## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

I'm thinking it was something in the original stream.. I had it and was recording off of OTA..

Also as far as the D* fault: I had black recordings of news and tonight show yesterday too, of course my local station blew up their encoders but it still has to be D* fault :lol:


----------



## jrlaw10 (Feb 3, 2007)

Two versions for me as well.

One 31 minutes, the other the full 1 hour and 2 minutes.

Weird. Haven't had a recording issue in a long time.


----------



## Keith Huntington (Sep 22, 2006)

Ditto. Both my HR20-100 (recording the HD channel) and my HR20-700 (recording the SD channel) stopped recording at exactly 32 minutes. It's fortunate that we had our ancient old DTivo recording, or my wife would be *really* ticked.

Obviously this problem can NOT be blamed on the "guide data" if the DTivo can handle it. (With software that it 2+ years old, at that.)


----------



## MrLatte (Aug 19, 2007)

I noticed My Name Is Earl only recorded 37 minutes in HD on my HR20-700 but it recorded the full hour on my TiVo (SD channel of course).


----------



## mike_augie (Oct 10, 2006)

Same here....28 min...shut off and with me being a medic ...I thought that I was going to have to call myself a ambulance .... lol ...... wife was not happy at all......


----------



## fredandbetty (Jan 28, 2007)

and yep 31 mins was all she wrote!! OMG!! my wife is COMPLETELY beside herself she thought she did something because she was going back and forth between Grey's and CSI and saw no problem since she was switching between the two fine and then she went to watch the entire show at 10:00p.m. and she was very mad!!!

i got home at 11 and she asked if they reshow any of the shows and i said i guess we have to watch it online but you better believe i'm gonna fire off an email to abc!!


----------



## nosok12 (Sep 21, 2007)

My stopped at 31 mins as well. They sometimes run espisodes again on Saturday nights but they have football going now. You can also check out the ABC website and watch episodes online.


----------



## smptc73 (Jul 11, 2007)

Count me in as a member of the HR20 screwed up the Grey's Anatomy recording tonight. 31 minutes.

We'll see if the HR10-250 had any issues in a minute or two.

Having just received this unit this week, I have to say that I am NOT impressed.


----------



## Joelh1 (Nov 17, 2006)

My wife is pissed. Thank goodness I have it recorded on the D*Tivo in the bedroom. 

She has lost all faith in our 1 year old HR-20 and wants to switch to FIOS. She gets mad at me for defending DTV.

Hurry D*, fix this thing and you will save thousands of marriages across the county.


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

flowbe209 said:


> I'm new to DirecTv and I appreciate the info this site provides. What in the guide data would stop a program from recording right in the middle of it? I understand how it could happen if an hour long show was split into 2 30 minute shows in the guide, but this was listed as a single 1 hour (and 1 minute) show


The way the guide data is structured....
It only has a START TIME, and a duration.

If the duration was only set to 30 minutes... that would cause it to stop recording, at the 30 minute mark.


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

At the moment I'm watching Grey's on the slingbox to see if it makes it to 35 minutes. FWIW My name is Earl (no relation to Mr. Bonovich) seems to have recorded the whole hour.


----------



## MrLatte (Aug 19, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> The way the guide data is structured....
> It only has a START TIME, and a duration.
> 
> If the duration was only set to 30 minutes... that would cause it to stop recording, at the 30 minute mark.


If that's the case why does it say "partial recording" in the history with the following note:

"This episode was partially recorded because it became unavailable. (13)"


----------



## smptc73 (Jul 11, 2007)

Tough to get that to wash though given the guide clearly showed it was a 1 hr. show.


----------



## HiDefGator (Nov 20, 2005)

I convinced my wife that it broke because she was watching it only a few minutes delayed and it happened when she caught up with live. I guess she won't buy that tomorrow when she notices that it only recorded 30 minutes on the other HR20 too.


----------



## chargedup (Nov 8, 2006)

count me as one of the two recording folks. One of 32 min and one of 1:02 min on the same HR20.


----------



## ProfJason (Dec 16, 2006)

Another one with problems with Grey's Anatomy tonight. It stopped recording here at the 32 minute mark. The other strange thing was that it recorded the SD version of GA, and not the HD version and I'm 99% sure that my SL for it was for the HD version. Later when watching Survivor and CSI, they were both having lots of pixelization problems, although the weather has been less than great here in Baltimore tonight. I haven't checked out my other HR20 to see what it did with Survivor and the NBC programs. However, they all looked like they recorded for the right time. Very strange behavior.


----------



## SAC-CA-HT (Jun 28, 2007)

Well...Greys Anatomy finished recording here on our HR20 on the West coast. Just wish it would've done the same with CSI which was fubared!

My shows 0 for 1
Her shows 1 for 2 (with ER still to go)


----------



## caimakale (Oct 31, 2006)

No problems here to report, my shows tonight recorded just fine.

_My Name is Earl_ recorded fine.
_Grey's Anatomy_ recorded fine.
_The Office_ recorded fine.

We watched CSI on our OTA antenna hooked directly to the TV so the HR20 could do it's job recording two shows at once.


----------



## shenefie (Dec 15, 2006)

is this the networks ploy to stop 'tivo-ing' of their shows so you either have to buy them or watch them severly degraded online???? i smell conspiracy.....yeah, i got a butt chewin from my lovely wife also over this....


----------



## vikingguy (Aug 1, 2005)

Got the whole thing on my hr10-250 OTA I did set it up on the hr20-100 yet. I am glad I kept the tivo for now.


----------



## keith_benedict (Jan 12, 2007)

Thank goodness, mine recorded the entire show. It's a good thing too. KOVR 13 out of Sacramento had major problems during CSI. The broadcast wasn't working and we just had black screen and awful noise for a good portion of the show. The last thing I want to do is have a problem with Grey's. As it was, the season finale last year recorded bad. The audio was 2 seconds behind the video and the show was unwatchable.


----------



## jrmichael (Dec 14, 2006)

Ok, Here's a strange DLB scenario for you.....

I got the same partial recording for Grey's that has been reported; however,
I happened to notice that the record light was not on at about 8:50 cst. Turned on the TV and the HR20 was tuned to a different channel, Disney I think. I checked the list and noticed that Grey's was a partial recording and thought I would try to at least catch the end as well so that I wouldn't be in trouble with the wife. I changed the current channel to ABC, there wasn't any buffer displayed. When I hit record, thinking that I would only get the last 10 minutes of the show and have two partial recordings, the unit instead recorded the entire show from the beginning. I ended up with two recordings, one full and one partial. The second tuner WAS buffered even though the HR20 didn't display as such when I changed the channel. The good news.... I wasn't in trouble when the wife got home!!!


----------



## Greg Alsobrook (Apr 2, 2007)

cut off here in memphis... the wife wasn't happy...


----------



## Dantanna (Apr 15, 2006)

I checked yesterday to make sure all our Thurs night programs were set up to record. Then I notice tonight after watching one of the earlier recorded programs that Greys Anatomy was bumped from ending at 10:01 to 10:02 which caused our ER recording to be cancelled since ER had their start time at 10:01.

Sadly, I'm more ticked off that the network tricked me & my directivo than I am at missing ER. I just checked the GA recording (SD through dtv locals seattle) and it is all there, all 1:02 min of it.

Sucks that the networks are trying stupid tactics like this in an attempt to keep you from flipping channels. I wonder which network will be the first to start their shows 23 minutes after the hour? I know...the one I won't watch. :lol:


----------



## FastEddie (Sep 18, 2006)

Mine showed 1hr 2 min recorded but when I tried to play it the HR20 locked up and I had to do a RBR.

I'm about ready to go back to the national release.

Rebooting now and I'll see if it plays.

After reboot Greys is now gone. History shows it recorded but not deleted. Just vanashed into thin air. Oh the wife is going to be pissed.

Big Shots did not recored either. And it was on ABC right after Greys. History shows it recorded at 10:01 and then canceled at 10:02

The wife is really going to kill me now.


----------



## FastEddie (Sep 18, 2006)

What to we have to do go back to the stone age and set the DVR to record a time slot like a VCR.


----------



## jerry3b (Jan 25, 2007)

OK this is a good example of why we need VOD. I have the HR20-100 so I cant check DOD but is Greys episode available for free to download?


----------



## dconfer (Nov 18, 2005)

Greys worked fine for me but I only got 31 minutes of big shots. Just stopped recording and say partial in the history. I tried to play it and it seems to work.


----------



## ticmxman (Aug 28, 2007)

29 miniutes of Grey's recorded on the HR20-700, 1 hour on my trusted TIVO R10...Boy am I still have the TIVO R10 running as a back up and probably will till it dies or this does not happen for a very long time.


----------



## Bofurley (Oct 11, 2006)

Same here in South East Kansas - stopped after 30 minutes!!


----------



## feets (Jan 27, 2007)

had 2 recordings of grey 's one stopped at 31 mins and the other recorded 1hr 2mins.........:hurah: big shots recorded ok........csi ok...... all from ota.......i think it was something on abc's end.........


----------



## Bofurley (Oct 11, 2006)

I caught the non completion of Grey's last night on my HR20, so I set it up to record the show on my west coast feed on the HR20. I just checked the recording and it is OK! I also checked my 10-250 which is recorded in HD from channel 86, east coast feed - It also was good. I also checked the recording on my office DSR708 in SD and it also was good!
Soooo with this information, it looks like it has something to do with the HD recording on the HR20 !!
Any ideas!!


----------



## MartyS (Dec 29, 2006)

Same here... only have 28 minutes, and since I was also recording CSI, the amber light was on so I didn't bother checking (not that I should need to check) as I thought everythign was working fine.


----------



## baritony (Aug 22, 2007)

I too had it stop at 31 minutes on my hr20-100 But on my hr20-700, it did what others had, recorded the first 30 minutes then went to a green status bar the last half.

Not cool!


----------



## muzzymate (Aug 20, 2007)

Same thing happened on ours. My HR20 also missed the premier of Private Practice due to an unknown system error (3). Grrrr!

Wife ain't too impressed with the HR20.


----------



## jsherm007 (Jun 23, 2006)

I was able to hit record at about 35 mintues in and it picked up the first 35 min and the rest... of course I did this after I noticed at 8:30 (CST) the orange light was off and I knew it should have been on due to Grey's recording. so I had one full recording and one partial on my play list.


----------



## wilmot3 (Jul 24, 2007)

did this only happen to ota locals ........recorded from the HD station out of ny (local hd hasn't been put up yet) got it all and it looks really good
HR20-700
x018a


----------



## dminches (Oct 1, 2006)

Didn't happen to me. Oops, I forgot to say that I recorded it on my HR10-250. Maybe I shouldn't retire that unit yet, assuming I want to see entire shows.


----------



## bobshults (Jun 16, 2006)

Mine stopped after 29 mins. Based on results here, problem seems to have been limited to HR20 OTA recordings of Gray's in the Eastern and Central time zones. Mountain and Pacific appear unaffected.


----------



## kjbnj (Apr 4, 2007)

Mine recorded 42 mins. I guess I will be watching some of the episode at ABC's website.


----------



## dkraft (Aug 31, 2007)

29 minutes for me. Local HD channel Naples Florida.


----------



## JB3 (Oct 2, 2006)

Had the same problem with Grey's on the HR-20. It was set to record off the MPEG4 NY Local WABC Channel 7. My HR 10-250 still running 3.1.5f got the whole thing 1:01 off the ABCE MPEG2 feed channel 86 with no problem.

Was this just a local channel issue? 

Did anyone have the issue with an HR-20 and channel 86?


----------



## rjknyy (Nov 18, 2005)

wilmot3 said:


> did this only happen to ota locals ........recorded from the HD station out of ny (local hd hasn't been put up yet) got it all and it looks really good
> HR20-700
> x018a


Mine only recorded 29 minutes and it was not HD or OTA


----------



## christo76 (Sep 12, 2006)

Earl, 
Is there a difference in the guide data Directv uses for the HR20 and HR10 DTivo?


----------



## Sintori (Sep 5, 2007)

It stopped at 30 min on my HR20-100, but recorded all the way through on R15. I still got my "Grey's" fix last night. If any of you missed it, you can watch it for free on ABC.com in a few days. I thought it was just me because I was hooking up a new DVD player and thought I had bumped the record button--I guess not.


----------



## Sintori (Sep 5, 2007)

Sintori said:


> It stopped at 30 min on my HR20-100, but recorded all the way through on R15. I still got my "Grey's" fix last night. If any of you missed it, you can watch it for free on ABC.com in a few days. I thought it was just me because I was hooking up a new DVD player and thought I had bumped the record button--I guess not.


Correction it's already up---

http://dynamic.abc.go.com/streaming/landing?lid=ABCCOMGlobalMenu&lpos=FEP

And you know it will be on a rerun eventually as well.


----------



## ckonon (Jan 14, 2007)

Happened here too. I have 2 HR20-700's and they both recored only 31 minutes of Grey's off D* HD local.


----------



## ajwillys (Jun 14, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> So ultimately, in this scenerio... you have to count on the "provider" of the data, which would be TMS... and TMS has to count on who gives it to them.
> 
> DVRs will always have one cominality: GIGO. Garbage In - Garbage Out


I disagree with this statement. It is Directv's responsibility to make sure my guide data gets to me correctly. The provider of my guide data is Directv. They may get it from TMS but I don't care about that, I don't pay TMS. In this case, I hold Directv responsible and it is Directv's responsibility to hold TMS responsible.

Mine stopped at 28 minutes also. I thought it was the wife messing around with the recording options but apparently not. I may call D* on this one.

Edit: In case anyone wants to debug, here's the info: HR20-700, ABC off satellite, 0x19A.


----------



## MikeR (Oct 6, 2006)

jrmichael said:


> Ok, Here's a strange DLB scenario for you.....
> I changed the current channel to ABC, there wasn't any buffer displayed. When I hit record, thinking that I would only get the last 10 minutes of the show and have two partial recordings, the unit instead recorded the entire show from the beginning. I ended up with two recordings, one full and one partial. The second tuner WAS buffered even though the HR20 didn't display as such when I changed the channel. The good news.... I wasn't in trouble when the wife got home!!!


I've actually had the R15 display DLB characteristics, and someone here has proven the HR20 is _capable_ of DLB (more than once).

on topic...glad my wife doesn't like Grey's!:grin:


----------



## AlexCF (Oct 14, 2006)

Happened to me too, while I was watching it. Got the "delete now?" dialog, said no, and went back to the local channel. Strange thing was the time bar showed a little bit of green that would have covered the small gap between the end of what I was watching on the recording and where it picked up when I switched to the right channel. I couldn't rewind back to the beginning of the green bar though. 

I've seen this before, it thinks it has more of the show recorded, but you can't actually rewind to get there.

This happens to me a lot with recordings on CourtTV (became unavailable). It's quite annoying. I doubt it's guide data, since the grid shows the show correctly the whole time and the info always shows the show's proper length.


----------



## bmar (Dec 15, 2006)

Same problem with Grey's. HR20-700, off of local HD OTA in Maryland. Recording stopped at 28 minutes in.

...and I'll be man enough to admit that not only was my wife pissed, I was pissed! I like that show. Good writing...


----------



## logdog (Jun 6, 2007)

I had the same problem, got 32 min then it stopped. In my case, I had a bunch of shows I was recording at the same time. I was recording Grey's on one tuner and Ace of Cakes on tuner 2 from 8:00 - 9:00. Then at 9:00 it was supposed to switch to ER on a different channel. 

What I found was that looking at the details of the guide, some of the shows start/end at funny times. For instance Ace went from 8:32 to 9:01 which created a conflict and because Ace was higher in my prioritizer list it stopped recording Grey's 32 min into the show so that it had a free tuner to record at 9:00.

So in my case I found that my HR20 was not alerting me when I had a conflict midway through a recording. When I looked back at the guide info for Grey's it appears to be correct, so I wonder if this is really a guide data problem or an issue with reporting conflicts in the scheduler. I'd be curious to know for some of the others who got partial recordings whether they also had multiple recordings happening around the same time.


----------



## bishoph (Sep 28, 2007)

same here...hr20, i live in atlanta, was recording off local ABC here

28 minutes and it stopped...error 13/program not available

it has to be a software thing right? for all of us to have had the same problem in different cities/recording off different abc affiliates


----------



## markman07 (Dec 22, 2005)

I don't watch this show so I can't verify it via my OTA feed on my hr10 or h20, but I do have my Directivo Series 2 setup with a WishList that captures all season premieres. This show was therefore recorded and I can verify that it did record the whole thing. FWIW


----------



## Peacegiver (Nov 20, 2006)

Same thing here in Detroit.


----------



## tydaking (Jan 10, 2007)

Same here, HR20 Westerville,Ohio 

recorded 31 mins, then stopped


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

It's got to be some digital anomaly that occurred halfway through the show that the HR20 couldn't elegantly cope with. A search for "anatomy" over at the TiVo forum shows no issues with last night's recording, so apparently the HR10 didn't have a problem with it.

If it was faulty GUIDE data, why would the HR20 report it as a "partial" recording? This message would seem to indicate the HR20 knows it didn't record the whole show, based on what it expected to get from the GUIDE info.

It would be very helpful to know what error "13" is, in plain english.

/steve


----------



## Tadrow (Jul 3, 2007)

I had the same issue on my HR-20. 32 minutes recorded. Except for some strange reason, when I tried to play it, the time bar showed I was at some time slightly over an hour, and no picture came up. I couldn't rewind or anything, and the "Start over" and "Resume" option both put me past what the end of the recording was supposed to be. So I didn't get to see any of it. My wife, as others have said, was not amused. I had a hard time convincing her that we should go with the HR20 instead of the HR10, and things like this sure don't help.


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

ajwillys said:


> I disagree with this statement. It is Directv's responsibility to make sure my guide data gets to me correctly. The provider of my guide data is Directv. They may get it from TMS but I don't care about that, I don't pay TMS. In this case, I hold Directv responsible and it is Directv's responsibility to hold TMS responsible.
> 
> Mine stopped at 28 minutes also. I thought it was the wife messing around with the recording options but apparently not. I may call D* on this one.
> 
> Edit: In case anyone wants to debug, here's the info: HR20-700, ABC off satellite, 0x19A.


You can hold DirecTV ultimately responsible... that is fine... call D* on it... I really don't care.

But if it is a guide data issue... that is the source of the problem...


----------



## bgmike (Sep 19, 2007)

Just a thought. I only got 30 mins. of Grey's as well. I was lucky enough to walk through the living room at 8:34 CST. I noticed the record light was not on and freaked out at the thought of my wife going ape pooh-pooh over losing this show. I immediately turned the tuner (from Smithsonian Channel) to ABC and hit the record button. The guide then informed me that I had a conflict of timing in my recordings. You see, Grey's went to 9:02 (ABC), I had ER (NBC) set to record and it started at 9:00 and I also had Without a Trace (CBS) which started at 9:01. It then asked me which one I wanted to cancel. HMMMMM, I said to myself. I just assumed that the box figured it out at 8:30 that there was going to be an issue at 9:00 to record 3 different channels and cut off Grey's. 

Was anyone else recording 2 other shows on 2 other channels that started at 9:00 CST? Like I said, just a thought on what might have caused this little glitch.


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Can anyone say they had this problem in Los Angeles? I just checked and the duration shows as 1 hr. 2 minutes.


----------



## jluzbet69 (May 27, 2007)

I was also cut @ 26 I got lucky cuz I saw the light turn off WTF and I was able to begin again... 

OTA..


----------



## RyanX (Aug 21, 2006)

I had the same problem but I was not recording anything after GA ended. I'm just glad I still have the old Tivo downstairs as a backup...


----------



## bradfjoh (Jul 18, 2007)

I'm in PHX and the entire thing recorded on both the HR20 and the Tivo 10-250.

Do people in different parts of the country get different guide data? I'd assume it's the same for all D* -- why would it not impact 'everyone' if it was guide data that is provided to all D* customers???


----------



## carybillsfan (Feb 1, 2007)

I had the same problem. My HR20-700 was recording both CSI and Grey's Anatomy, got the full hour of CSI, but only 28min of Grey's. Our old DTivo did record the entire Grey's anatomy...but my wife has been getting upset with the HR20-700 lately because it has screwed up her series pass of Passions several times since passions moved to 101.


----------



## Tadrow (Jul 3, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> But if it is a guide data issue... that is the source of the problem...


Well as far as customers are concerned, the source of the guide data IS Directv. And if the guide data was corrupt somehow, it sure seems like the HR10 is able to handle that a lot better than the HR20!


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Can anyone say they had this problem in Los Angeles? I just checked and the duration shows as 1 hr. 2 minutes.


A quick scan of the various posters locations would seem to indicate the glitch that caused the issue was in the East Coast feed, which I'm told is also the CST feed.

I'm wondering why the EDT HR10 users aren't also reporting the problem. I was recording OTA, btw.

/steve


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Tadrow said:


> Well as far as customers are concerned, the source of the guide data IS Directv. And if the guide data was corrupt somehow, it sure seems like the HR10 is able to handle that a lot better than the HR20!


Like I said in that same post you quoted....
If you want to hold DirecTV responsible for it... be my guest.

If you want to understand the possible root cause for the issue... have at it.

Do you blame your ISP, if a website is down? Your ISP is the one delivering you the data stream... Or do you look to see what the root cause for the issues is.

Even with all the problems the HR20 has had over the year, very few have been systematic accross all of them. This one appears to have hit everone in the ET and CT timezones pretty much the exact same way...

So instead of jumping down the throat of the HR20 and "Tivo is god" posts...
Why not take a step back and try to understand what the root cause could be, so it can be fixed... by who ever has to fix it... so it doesn't happen again. As are any of you going to get rid of your HR20 and go back to the HR10-250, or to a different carrier because of this?

Or am I mistaken that discussion on what could be the cause not allowed here any more? Gosh forbid, that you take a step back from the emotional aspect of the event... and try to possible understand what could have caused it.


----------



## richa65 (Dec 4, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> But if it is a guide data issue... that is the source of the problem...


You treat this like it's an engineering review meeting at DTV. Who can we point the finger at? And great, THEY need to have that meeting.

But, we are the end customers. TSM IS DTV to me. If DTV has a problem with the data from TSM, maybe they should take that up with TSM. Better yet, bulletproof your product. I'm tired of the excuses. This thing has been out for over a year now. It's not too much to expect it to record shows reliably.

And for the record, I would call DTV and "take this up with them", but I know what the geniuses would say. "You need to reformat your drive......" Not going there.


----------



## richa65 (Dec 4, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Do you blame your ISP, if a website is down? Your ISP is the one delivering you the data stream... Or do you look to see what the root cause for the issues is.


Horrible analogy. Try this. If my entire internet connection is down because my cable company's head end modem is down, do I blame my cable company or do I blame the manufacturer of the HEM? THE CABLE COMPANY. You made the decision to buy that one over others. Fix it quickly and let's move on.


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

I, for one, am bringing up the HR10 in an effort to be helpful. Whatever anomaly in the data stream caused the error on the HR20 was apparently handled by the HR10, so perhaps D* can compare "what's different" between their two DVRs and make the necessary changes. /steve


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

richa65 said:


> Horrible analogy. Try this. If my entire internet connection is down because my cable company's head end modem is down, do I blame my cable company or do I blame the manufacturer of the HEM? THE CABLE COMPANY. You made the decision to buy that one over others. Fix it quickly and let's move on.


Why is it a horrible analogy.

Was the entire DirecTV data stream down? No it was working..
And it ws working for other shows at the same time...

One show had an issue... not all of them...
So the stream worked, your connection to the stream worked, but something in the data failed...


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

richa65 said:


> You treat this like it's an engineering review meeting at DTV. Who can we point the finger at? And great, THEY need to have that meeting.
> 
> But, we are the end customers. TSM IS DTV to me. If DTV has a problem with the data from TSM, maybe they should take that up with TSM. Better yet, bulletproof your product. I'm tired of the excuses. This thing has been out for over a year now. It's not too much to expect it to record shows reliably.
> 
> And for the record, I would call DTV and "take this up with them", but I know what the geniuses would say. "You need to reformat your drive......" Not going there.


You're right... that is *EXACTLY* how I am treating it.. .because that is how I think... I am a software engineer... I want to figure WHY it happened... as you can't change the fact that it DID happen.

Guess what... TiVo has been out for 7+ years, and it is not perfect either...

You are right.. .it is not too much to expect for it to record it's shows... but honestly... If you are expecting perfection, you are in fact expecting too much... and that is my honest opinion.

I have never expected perfection out of any DVR... why... I am a realist, and understand that "stuff" happens... My TiVo's has failed recordings, my DVR+'s have had failed recordings... neither one has been perfect over it's life time.

-------
So yes... I look at it as an engineer...


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

If anyone is interested (and understands GEEK and XML)... .
http://tmsdatadirect.com/docs/tv/

You can see how the guide data is built and transmitted from TMS
(Well... at least one version of their offering)


----------



## fghocker (Nov 23, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Can anyone say they had this problem in Los Angeles? I just checked and the duration shows as 1 hr. 2 minutes.


Both of my HR20's recorded Grey's entirely (total time 1:02). I'm here in Los Angeles.


----------



## mtnagel (Sep 18, 2006)

Just got the call from the wife. Off to bittorrent I go


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

mtnagel said:


> Just got the call from the wife. Off to bittorrent I go


Why bittorrent... go get it off abc.com


----------



## DarkAudit (Sep 10, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Do you blame your ISP, if a website is down? Your ISP is the one delivering you the data stream... Or do you look to see what the root cause for the issues is.


If I had Comcast, I would. I can no longer trust them not to block data coming in.


----------



## dvisthe (May 27, 2007)

I have seen this problem before, recording OTA. I lost my OTA signal for approx 1 sec. HR20 stopped playing and never picked back up (asked me to delete). I think it is a software problem. The program was still 'recording'( red light was on). I was watching the show about twenty minutes behind, so I was aware the red light was on until the end of the show.


----------



## dminches (Oct 1, 2006)

So, Earl, the HR10 and HR20 receive the same guide data stream so the issue was software related and how the 2 units process the data?


----------



## ajwillys (Jun 14, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> You're right... that is *EXACTLY* how I am treating it.. .because that is how I think... I am a software engineer... I want to figure WHY it happened... as you can't change the fact that it DID happen.


I don't want to get in a pissing match on this but I think the fundamental difference in the arguments is that I am looking at this thread as a rant for a show that didn't record while you are looking at how to find and fix the root of the problem. Using your point of view, I agree, it is TMS's fault. Using mine, it's D*'s.

And I'm a firm believer that companies that choose to outsource a part of their product instead of doing it themselves should be held as responsible for the part they outsource....


----------



## Tadrow (Jul 3, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> So instead of jumping down the throat of the HR20 and "Tivo is god" posts...
> Why not take a step back and try to understand what the root cause could be, so it can be fixed... by who ever has to fix it... so it doesn't happen again. As are any of you going to get rid of your HR20 and go back to the HR10-250, or to a different carrier because of this?
> 
> Or am I mistaken that discussion on what could be the cause not allowed here any more? Gosh forbid, that you take a step back from the emotional aspect of the event... and try to possible understand what could have caused it.


I'm all about figuring out the root cause. I just took exception to your blaming the guide data as the problem. As an engineer who designs products that are used by non-technical end-users, I would never dream of blaming a problem with one of my products on some component of the system that they had no control over. If the system doesn't work, it's my fault.

I'll help your with your analogy. What happened is not akin to a website going down and blaming the ISP. However, if the ISP's DNS servers suddenly stopped resolving a certain website, I sure would contact the ISP. That's similar to what happened here. The website itself is just fine. My access to it is what's not working.

I'm not trying to go after you Earl. I know you do a lot for this community on a volunteer basis. I just think that if you were officially speaking for DirecTV, you'd be a lot more careful about saying that guide data problems are not DirecTV's issue. And I'm certainly no Tivo-lover, I don't even have one anymore. My comment about the HR10's working was to try to show it couldn't have been only a matter of guide data causing this problem.


----------



## Charlutz (Jul 30, 2007)

*The failure to record the last half hour of Grey's Anatomy was my fault. That's right. Me.*

At least that's what my wife said when she got home because I am in charge of all things tech and tv. She doesn't care that we get Smithsonian HD or that I get interactive features on the NFL game mix. She wants her shows recorded. I'm not going to tell her that the tivo would have recorded it ok, but that it would is disturbing to me. She's already complained about the AV sync issues enough that the HR20 is on her S___ list. Thankfully, we used to have OTA issues occasionally with the HR10 so I point out the HD local reception when she curses the HR20, but that crutch won't last much longer.

Fix your box, Directv!


----------



## bobshults (Jun 16, 2006)

Charlutz said:


> *The failure to record the last half hour of Grey's Anatomy was my fault. That's right. Me.*
> 
> At least that's what my wife said when she got home because I am in charge of all things tech and tv. She doesn't care that we get Smithsonian HD or that I get interactive features on the NFL game mix. She wants her shows recorded. I'm not going to tell her that the tivo would have recorded it ok, but that it would is disturbing to me. She's already complained about the AV sync issues enough that the HR20 is on her S___ list. Thankfully, we used to have OTA issues occasionally with the HR10 so I point out the HD local reception when she curses the HR20, but that crutch won't last much longer.
> 
> Fix your box, Directv!


AMEN!


----------



## ajwillys (Jun 14, 2006)

Charlutz said:


> *The failure to record the last half hour of Grey's Anatomy was my fault. That's right. Me.*


I can believe that, I'll tell my wife it was your fault


----------



## MrLatte (Aug 19, 2007)

Here's my take on what happened:

ABC or whomever sets the length of the shows changed the show from 61 minutes to 62 minutes DURING the east cost viewing which caused the HR20 to see changed guide data and think the show became unavailable.

Haven't there been reports that shows can stop recording in the middle if the guide data changes?

I was also recording the SAME channel at the same time on a TiVo but it recorded 61 minutes and cutoff the last minute because it must have locked in the original show data. I then went to the guide to record the end of the west coast feed and before my eyes I saw the time shift to end at 10:02pm instead of 10:01pm.


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

MrLatte said:


> Here's my take on what happened:
> 
> ABC or whomever sets the length of the shows changed the show from 61 minutes to 62 minutes DURING the east cost viewing which caused the HR20 to see changed guide data and think the show became unavailable.
> 
> ...


It's not likely that GUIDE data is monitored in real time during a recording. I don't believe any DVR is that sophisticated. Otherwise Sunday evening CBS and FOX show start times after football games run long could be adjusted in real time. Just my .02.

It would be helpful to find out exactly what error code "13" signifies. /steve


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

ajwillys said:


> I don't want to get in a pissing match on this but I think the fundamental difference in the arguments is that I am looking at this thread as a rant for a show that didn't record while you are looking at how to find and fix the root of the problem. Using your point of view, I agree, it is TMS's fault. Using mine, it's D*'s.
> 
> And I'm a firm believer that companies that choose to outsource a part of their product instead of doing it themselves should be held as responsible for the part they outsource....


Fair enough... that is were we do different... point of view to the issue.

I think going forward, I will adjust the titles of the threads to add the word RANT to them... and then we can have a second thread, for those that want an answer to "why" it possibly happened.

And you are right... any company that outsources anything, is responsible for the product with their name on it...


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Tadrow said:


> I'm not trying to go after you Earl. I know you do a lot for this community on a volunteer basis. I just think that if you were officially speaking for DirecTV, you'd be a lot more careful about saying that guide data problems are not DirecTV's issue. And I'm certainly no Tivo-lover, I don't even have one anymore. My comment about the HR10's working was to try to show it couldn't have been only a matter of guide data causing this problem.


I know that (that you are not going after me).

I just have a very different point of view for a lot of these things... and when I point out that other angle to the "issue", a lot of people take it like I am defending DirecTV blindly....

And you are right... I am not an employee of DirecTV, and you are exactly right... if there was an official statement on the issue, it would be a lot more "carefully" stated.


----------



## Tadrow (Jul 3, 2007)

MrLatte said:


> ABC or whomever sets the length of the shows changed the show from 61 minutes to 62 minutes DURING the east cost viewing which caused the HR20 to see changed guide data and think the show became unavailable.


That sounds pretty likely. If DTV is going to send new guide data for a show WHILE that show is on, they better make sure their boxes can handle it without just giving up on the recording.


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

MrLatte said:


> Here's my take on what happened:
> 
> ABC or whomever sets the length of the shows changed the show from 61 minutes to 62 minutes DURING the east cost viewing which caused the HR20 to see changed guide data and think the show became unavailable.
> 
> ...


It's not likely that the GUIDE data for a show in progress is monitored in real time during a recording. I don't believe the units are that sophisticated, otherwise Sunday evening CBS and FOX show start times after football games run long could be adjusted in real time. Just my .02.

It would be helpful to find out exactly what error code "13" signifies. /steve


----------



## jrmichael (Dec 14, 2006)

bobshults said:


> Mine stopped after 29 mins. Based on results here, problem seems to have been limited to HR20 OTA recordings of Gray's in the Eastern and Central time zones. Mountain and Pacific appear unaffected.


No, not unique to OTA, I had the same issue and was recording off of D* HD Locals in CST.


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

MrLatte said:


> Here's my take on what happened:
> 
> ABC or whomever sets the length of the shows changed the show from 61 minutes to 62 minutes DURING the east cost viewing which caused the HR20 to see changed guide data and think the show became unavailable.
> 
> ...


IMHO... that is a very good theory on what could have happened...
And then does point at both pieces being and issue, and would explain why it worked in the MT and PT timezones, didn't in the CT and ET.... and why the TiVo doesn't seem to have been affectd, other then being short the last minute of the recording (yes there are threads on that over at TCF).

As TiVo does most of their GUIDE data changes in bulk, at different points of the day.. (Re the messages we used to get, that TiVo would possible not recognize the change in guide data quick enough and that we would have to manually adjust for some issues). We have seen the HR20 update data in the guide, relatively quickly in the pass... so yes... I do think they process guide data updates/changes very differently.

And it then does point at the HR20 software not gracefully handling an inline guide data change, during the recording... which yes... would need to be fixed..

And it would also explain the 29/30/31/32 minute differences in people's reports... the delay in the HR20 receiving that change, for their specific local, then processing the change...


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Tadrow said:


> That sounds pretty likely. If DTV is going to send new guide data for a show WHILE that show is on, they better make sure their boxes can handle it without just giving up on the recording.


FYI: The HR20 is receiving and processing guide data 24/7
So yes... something would need to be done to gracefully handle a case where the guide data is changed, to a show that is IN PROGRESS already..

Which honestly... doesn't happen very often... Off the top of my head, I can't recall another case of it.


----------



## keith_benedict (Jan 12, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> You can hold DirecTV ultimately responsible... that is fine... call D* on it... I really don't care.
> 
> But if it is a guide data issue... that is the source of the problem...


Again...if it's a guide data issue, why did some HR20's record it and some didn't. Mine recorded it just fine (thank goodness). I suppose it's possible that the guide data in certain areas could be messed up. It would be interesting to see if 2 people in the same area had different results (one with a full recording, one without).


----------



## HDTV1080p (Feb 15, 2007)

Just got off the phone with D* and after talking to a protection plan specialist about another problem, I brought up this issue with Greys Anatomy. After explaining the problem and message in the history she put me on hold for a while and said that she didn't know the cause but one way I could "assure this wouldn't happen again" was to reset defaults. 

Has anyone tried this? What is lost and what remains?


----------



## richa65 (Dec 4, 2006)

Very good points from MrLatte and Earl. Sounds like something that should be pretty easy to reproduce quickly in the lab. Hopefully we'll be getting a patch soon and then there will be no more need to point fingers.


----------



## Tadrow (Jul 3, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> FYI: The HR20 is receiving and processing guide data 24/7
> So yes... something would need to be done to gracefully handle a case where the guide data is changed, to a show that is IN PROGRESS already..
> 
> Which honestly... doesn't happen very often... Off the top of my head, I can't recall another case of it.


I actually did software development for cable set top boxes a few years ago, and I did DVR work. Depending on how the HR20's software is currently architected, those engineers could have a bit of a headache ahead of them. Fortunately, I'm not doing DVR/STB stuff anymore :lol:


----------



## Tadrow (Jul 3, 2007)

keith_benedict said:


> Again...if it's a guide data issue, why did some HR20's record it and some didn't. Mine recorded it just fine (thank goodness). I suppose it's possible that the guide data in certain areas could be messed up. It would be interesting to see if 2 people in the same area had different results (one with a full recording, one without).


Well, how did I know you were on the west coast before I saw the Northern California in your sig? (If you read back in the thread, the later west coast showing didn't have the problem.)


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

If this is the case, and the HR20 is supposed to adjust recording time based on real time GUIDE data changes, think of the havoc networks could create on our ToDo lists by extending their recordings a minute or two more at the last minute, and bumping recordings scheduled for the next hour!

ABC is already guilty of this with their 10:01 stop times, but at least we have advance notice to deal with this. /steve


----------



## oldguy1 (Aug 22, 2006)

keith_benedict said:


> Again...if it's a guide data issue, why did some HR20's record it and some didn't. Mine recorded it just fine (thank goodness). I suppose it's possible that the guide data in certain areas could be messed up. It would be interesting to see if 2 people in the same area had different results (one with a full recording, one without).


Mine failed to record ful program. I was recording OTA. Perhaps DTV locals went OK?


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

oldguy1 said:


> Mine failed to record ful program. I was recording OTA. Perhaps DTV locals went OK?


It effected both OTA, and the SAT Based... in the ET and CT so far


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Tadrow said:


> I actually did software development for cable set top boxes a few years ago, and I did DVR work. Depending on how the HR20's software is currently architected, those engineers could have a bit of a headache ahead of them. Fortunately, I'm not doing DVR/STB stuff anymore :lol:


There are a couple of ways....

You could filter the guide data before it is sent to the box, and nix anything that is a change for in progress programming, or something set to say start in the next 15-30 minutes.... at least a temporary fix (avoid the problem methodology).

Then work on updating the handling of in-progress guide data changes...

Obiviously something happened... in a defined pattern (because of the amount and consitancy in the result of the event). So it is something software/data based... not hardware (local or head end)...

So what that means... it most likely can be fixed, and avoided for future events.


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I don't know if this will help but I just checked with a friend who works at an ABC affiliate. He says most affiliates websites (usually the call letters + .com, e.g. WABC.com) have links to watch ABC programs in HD on your computer. 

He did not, and could not say, when the run time of Grey's changed.


----------



## Lee L (Aug 15, 2002)

Earl Bonovich said:


> You're right... that is *EXACTLY* how I am treating it.. .because that is how I think... I am a software engineer... I want to figure WHY it happened... as you can't change the fact that it DID happen.
> 
> Guess what... TiVo has been out for 7+ years, and it is not perfect either...
> 
> ...


Earl, I have to disagree with you on this one.

Lets say, as an engineer, you have a large project going but you are the one responsible. Lets say that this project has visibility to the customers of your company or to the CEO even. You have 5 people woring on helping you and a couple of vendors. The vendor gives you faulty ewuipment or data, causing your project to go south right as you are making hte presentation to the CEO. Who does the CEO and or your customers blame? At the very least, everyone will expect an explanation and a plan on how to avoid it.

Knowing that you are the one that catches the blame, do you not make darn sure that week after week all the people that report to you or the vendors are on track?


----------



## thegamer36 (Dec 15, 2006)

Same thing happened to me on the east coast, 29 minutes in, stopped recording. Wow the wife is not happy.


----------



## HDTV1080p (Feb 15, 2007)

Interestingly enough I also had Big Shots set to record after Greys Anatomy. It was cancelled at 10:01 EST because of the same (13) message in history, but then at 10:02 it recorded the remaining 58 minutes???


----------



## bishoph (Sep 28, 2007)

if this is true about real time guide data change, one way to avoid this in the future is to set a manual recording on thursdays from like 9p ET until 1015p ET

it takes away the beauty of the "series link" but at least you'd guarantee you wouldn't get bumped

I wonder if D* is experimenting with this b/c I know probably the #1 complaint DVR consumers have re: sports is that when games go into OT or extra innings, the Tivo or DVR can't know it...a real-time guide data update would fix that, but the software on the other end has to be smart enough to deal with it on the fly


----------



## Sirshagg (Dec 30, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> So instead of jumping down the throat of the HR20 and "Tivo is god" posts...
> Why not take a step back and try to understand what the root cause could be, so it can be fixed... by who ever has to fix it... so it doesn't happen again. As are any of you going to get rid of your HR20 and go back to the HR10-250, or to a different carrier because of this?
> 
> Or am I mistaken that discussion on what could be the cause not allowed here any more? Gosh forbid, that you take a step back from the emotional aspect of the event... and try to possible understand what could have caused it.


To be perfectly honest I don't care what caused it and I doubt many people do. All I really care about is that it gets fixed *FAST*


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Lee L said:


> Earl, I have to disagree with you on this one.
> 
> Lets say, as an engineer, you have a large project going but you are the one responsible. Lets say that this project has visibility to the customers of your company or to the CEO even. You have 5 people woring on helping you and a couple of vendors. The vendor gives you faulty ewuipment or data, causing your project to go south right as you are making hte presentation to the CEO. Who does the CEO and or your customers blame? At the very least, everyone will expect an explanation and a plan on how to avoid it.
> 
> Knowing that you are the one that catches the blame, do you not make darn sure that week after week all the people that report to you or the vendors are on track?


I not sure why you disagree with the statement you quoted...

But as I stated before, yes... DirecTV does have a responsibility to their customers...and the customer have the right to complain to the one they pay the service for.

But I know around here... at my job... we are having a major network issue with connectivity to our stores.... Our CEO is not blaiming us here in IT... as we know the issue with with our carrier, not something we have control over. Our CEO is making "us" responsibile for getting it fixed, but the blame is not on "us".

And you are right.. .our "customers" just blame "IT"... as honestly... they don't understand the structure... so yes, we have to expect the blame from them... but those that want to understand the root cause, and want it to be fixed and avoided... that is where my comments are directed.


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

HDTV1080p said:


> Interestingly enough I also had Big Shots set to record after Greys Anatomy. It was cancelled at 10:01 EST because of the same (13) message in history, but then at 10:02 it recorded the remaining 58 minutes???


Hmm... this continues to add to the theory that the guide data was changed... during the broadcast.


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

bishoph said:


> if this is true about real time guide data change, one way to avoid this in the future is to set a manual recording on thursdays from like 9p ET until 1015p ET
> 
> it takes away the beauty of the "series link" but at least you'd guarantee you wouldn't get bumped
> 
> I wonder if D* is experimenting with this b/c I know probably the #1 complaint DVR consumers have re: sports is that when games go into OT or extra innings, the Tivo or DVR can't know it...a real-time guide data update would fix that, but the software on the other end has to be smart enough to deal with it on the fly


They would not be "experimenting" during prime-time, let alone on the customer boxes during prime-time.


----------



## MattWarner (Feb 11, 2007)

Steve said:


> If this is the case, and the HR20 is supposed to adjust recording time based on real time GUIDE data changes, think of the havoc networks could create on our ToDo lists by extending their recordings a minute or two more at the last minute, and bumping recordings scheduled for the next hour!


Very good point. Since the network is sending the changes to TMS, what is to stop them from extending shows one minute or two at the last minute to 'favor' their own network? I'd hope there is something in the TMS terms of service that would prevent them from doing that.

-Matt


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Sirshagg said:


> To be perfectly honest I don't care what caused it and I doubt many people do. All I really care about is that it gets fixed *FAST*


So like I said...

Next time, I will append to the end of the title: RANT... for those that don't want to know the reason, just want to vent about it not working

Then a 2nd thread, for those that are intrested on the possible reasons on WHY it happened.

My fault for blending the two... and assuming that some people would have been intrested in the "WHY"


----------



## HDTV1080p (Feb 15, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Hmm... this continues to add to the theory that the guide data was changed... during the broadcast.


Earl,

Any thoughts on D*'s Suggestion to reset defaults to fix the problem and assure it doesn't happen again?


----------



## Sirshagg (Dec 30, 2006)

Well, I don't think this affected me as I'm in Arizona and my HR20 appears to have recorded the whole thing (have not tried watching it yet). I can agree that glitches like this are to be expected occasionally, but I would expect that they track down whatever caused the issue this time and fix it immediately so that we don't have the same issue (for the same reason) happen again.

The same goes for Chuck on Monday, but that's a separate thread.

I posted this in another thread but I'll repeat it here. 
It seems that a big part of the issue is that when the HR20 was originally released it was (lets say) really "buggy". Now that it's greatly improved, yet still far from perfect, everyone tends to flashback 12 months any time there is a problem. Simply put this unit was released too early and has a bad rep that it will probably never get away from no matter how good it eventually becomes.​


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

HDTV1080p said:


> Earl,
> 
> Any thoughts on D*'s Suggestion to reset defaults to fix the problem and assure it doesn't happen again?


You mean the CSR suggestion...

I wouldn't do it, as it isn't going to fix anything.


----------



## ctwilliams (Aug 25, 2006)

AirRocker said:


> cut off here in memphis... the wife wasn't happy...


Same for me. I know I can watch it on abc.com, but that is not now that I bought/leased this HR20 for.


----------



## LAM (Feb 6, 2003)

Grey's Anatomy never dropped out on my Dishnetwork 622 receiver. So this was not a ABC problem.


----------



## Sirshagg (Dec 30, 2006)

Earl, 

It might be more accurate to describe this as a problem with the way the HR20 handles irregular or problematic guide data instead of just saying it's guide data.


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

LAM said:


> Grey's Anatomy never dropped out on my Dishnetwork 622 receiver. So this was not a ABC problem.


And where are you located....
And did you get ALL of the recording, without padding (including the last minute).

We have come to the conclusion that it wasn't a broadcast issue (as the H20 people are not reporting any issues)... but, possible an guide data change... which ABC does control the source of....


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Sirshagg said:


> Earl,
> 
> It might be more accurate to describe this as a problem with the way the HR20 handles irregular or problematic guide data instead of just saying it's guide data.


Or as an issue with the guide data changing mid-stream, and that not being handled properly.

It is very possible that everything was set okay at 8:00pm (CT) when the show was set to record... but at the 8:30pm ish mark, a guide data change was processed... and that wasn't process "properly"...

So it might not even be, irregular or problematic guide data.... but something unexpected, as I can't recall another case where guide data changed... in line... but I am unaware of any process that would prevent it from happening.


----------



## Road Rage (Nov 3, 2006)

rjknyy said:


> Yep, just looked. Stopped at 29 minutes, the wife is ticked.


Same here.


----------



## atdauph (Apr 19, 2007)

My HR20-100 recorded the whole thing, as far as I know. My wife would have definitely let me know if there was a problem. 

I did pad it by 2 minutes because I know sometimes these shows run over.

Recorded on MPEG4 local, not OTA. Central Time Zone


----------



## Sirshagg (Dec 30, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Or as an issue with the guide data changing mid-stream, and that not being handled properly.
> 
> It is very possible that everything was set okay at 8:00pm (CT) when the show was set to record... but at the 8:30pm ish mark, a guide data change was processed... and that wasn't process "properly"...
> 
> So it might not even be, irregular or problematic guide data.... but something unexpected, as I can't recall another case where guide data changed... in line... but I am unaware of any process that would prevent it from happening.


Right. My point is that while the guide data might ultimately be the source of the problem laying the blame entirely there when the HR20 could, and should, compensate for some guide data issues (especially when other brands of DVR's do) is what really gets people fired up.


----------



## Radio Enginerd (Oct 5, 2006)

fghocker said:


> Both of my HR20's recorded Grey's entirely (total time 1:02). I'm here in Los Angeles.


+1 in the Sacramento, CA DMA

Running 19d


----------



## mtnagel (Sep 18, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Why bittorrent... go get it off abc.com


So my wife and I can watch it on my tv and not on a tiny laptop monitor. Unless they allow me to download it and burn to a DVD.


----------



## SFNSXguy (Apr 17, 2006)

I haven't read ALL the posts, but it appears to be a geographical (time zone) issue.

My HR20-100 recorded all (1:01) of the show.

And as to Earl's "don't expect perfection" posts -- for over $100/mo I expect the device to do what it is supposed to do - PERIOD.

But what are we to expect from a company that leaves its software debugging to a group of users on the internet? DirecTV executives should be ashamed.


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Ya, what Earl and other's are theorizing now makes more sense to me, and seems to be the only explanation that fits the facts.

I say this because if it was a glitch in the master broadcast data stream, everyone's recording would have stopped at exactly the same point in the show, but folks are reporting 3-4 minute discrepancies. And the fact that the west coast wasn't affected indicated that those HR20's had more time to process the GUIDE data change that ABC apparently sent down.

The quick fix would be for D* to simply ignore GUIDE data changes for recordings in progress, or imminent recordings, but that's easy for me to say.  

/steve


----------



## lragusa (Mar 17, 2007)

Steve said:


> Ya, what Earl and other's are theorizing now makes more sense to me, and seems to be the only explanation that fits the facts.
> 
> I say this because if it was a glitch in the master broadcast data stream, everyone's recording would have stopped at exactly the same point in the show, but folks are reporting 3-4 minute discrepancies. And the fact that the west coast wasn't affected indicated that those HR20's had more time to process the GUIDE data change that ABC apparently sent down.
> 
> ...


But why should extending the broadcast by a minute have caused the program to stop recording? Certainly not everyone had two other programs set to tape at 10 PM.

Larry


----------



## Sirshagg (Dec 30, 2006)

lragusa said:


> But why should extending the broadcast by a minute have caused the program to stop recording? Certainly not everyone had two other programs set to tape at 10 PM.
> 
> Larry


The theory seems to be that ANY change to the guide data while the program is currently being recorded "confused" the HR20.


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

lragusa said:


> But why should extending the broadcast by a minute have caused the program to stop recording? Certainly not everyone had two other programs set to tape at 10 PM.
> 
> Larry


Sounds like the theory is that it was simply the act of processing a guide data change at around 9:30PM EDT for this show that caused a system "hiccup" that in turn caused the recording to stop.

My guess is it had little to do with whether or not there were recordings scheduled in the next hour, but I could be wrong. /steve


----------



## darekd (Oct 11, 2006)

SFNSXguy said:


> And as to Earl's "don't expect perfection" posts -- for over $100/mo I expect the device to do what it is supposed to do - PERIOD.


Cars cost thousands of dollars and they brake constantly. TVs cost houndrads/thousands of dollars and they also brake all the time and you expect 100% reliability for mere 100 bucks. Wow.



SFNSXguy said:


> But what are we to expect from a company that leaves its software debugging to a group of users on the internet? DirecTV executives should be ashamed.


No, we are volunteers that love to do it so you can have 100% reliable box. I thank Directv that they listen to us and put more and more requested features.


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

MrLatte said:


> If that's the case why does it say "partial recording" in the history with the following note:
> 
> "This episode was partially recorded because it became unavailable. (13)"


The theory we are building, through the discussion in this thread.
Is that the Guide data was updated, while the show airing...

And the HR20 saw the original guide data drop out: Hence the "unavailable"
and then get replaced by the updated data... but the recording had already stopped.

Aka... something that HR20 has to be updated to handle more gracefully (guide changes for shows that are actively recording)


----------



## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Hmm... this continues to add to the theory that the guide data was changed... during the broadcast.


I honestly haven't read much of this thread but I thought I'd post this.

Over on the Tivo forum there was a post a couple days ago by Tivo Jerry that indicated that Grey's was going to run over an extra minute. http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=367662

For him to post that means they didn't think a guide data update would get in the stream in time.

I'd guess that a guide data update did happen but it was *during* the Grey's broadcast and the HR20 choked on it. I honestly think this same behavior is the lead cause of many of the "this broadcast has become unavailable" errors and the error 13 thing (see Ken S's Blues Clues thread).

For some reason the HR20 isn't handling guide data updates on the fly, it sees the change and thinks what's it's recording no longer should be and stops. It just need to keep on recording what it was asked.

My theory.

Hopefully DirecTV can get on this in this CE cycle yet. It has been around for a while and kinda suprising it hasn't been stamped out yet.


----------



## econman (Sep 25, 2007)

Thanks for this post everyone.

Grey's cut off at 31 or 32 min for us (D* local HD feed). At first I thought my HR20 was having problems (I've had it for about 2 weeks). In that sense, I'm glad to see it was most likely a guide issue rather than my specific HR20 having problems.

However, my wife was not happy last night at 10:30 when our recording shut off (she tuned it on after CSI). 

Hopefully this issue will be prevented in the future.


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> The theory we are building, through the discussion in this thread.
> Is that the Guide data was updated, while the show airing...
> 
> And the HR20 saw the original guide data drop out: Hence the "unavailable"
> ...


I'm seeking confirmation from a knowledgeable source right now and hopefully we can confirm that, at least, run time for Grey's was changed during the later part of the day.


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

econman said:


> Thanks for this post everyone.
> 
> Grey's cut off at 31 or 32 min for us (D* local HD feed). At first I thought my HR20 was having problems (I've had it for about 2 weeks). In that sense, I'm glad to see it was most likely a guide issue rather than my specific HR20 having problems.
> 
> ...


And that is why we post what we post... and discuss the way we do.

To hopefully find the reason, or least discuss what we are seeing so DirecTV has some datapoints to help them narrow down the reasons.

So it get's fixed for "next time"... as we can't change what has already occured.


----------



## mbuser (Jul 6, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> IMHO... that is a very good theory on what could have happened...
> And then does point at both pieces being and issue, and would explain why it worked in the MT and PT timezones, didn't in the CT and ET.... and why the TiVo doesn't seem to have been affectd, other then being short the last minute of the recording (yes there are threads on that over at TCF).
> 
> As TiVo does most of their GUIDE data changes in bulk, at different points of the day.. (Re the messages we used to get, that TiVo would possible not recognize the change in guide data quick enough and that we would have to manually adjust for some issues). We have seen the HR20 update data in the guide, relatively quickly in the pass... so yes... I do think they process guide data updates/changes very differently.
> ...


Might want to start a survey to verify that all who had this problem had previously scheduled two programs to record during the next hour. I'd put my money on that being the case.

Here's a little more info also that might help. I manually scheduled two programs for NEXT Thursday during the 9:00 Central hour, which the HR20 allowed me to do. When I determined that Grey's had misrecorded, I looked at Episodes to see if there would be a repeat, and noted that the Grey's for next week had changed to Will Not Record because of a conflict. Apparently when guide data changes, the program that changed is the one that gets canceled, which I consider to be a software bug. IMO, any program schedule via a season pass should take priority over any program scheduled manually.

This also irritates me no end at the people at ABC, who were the ones who decided to add one or two more commercials and extend their stop time.


----------



## Lee L (Aug 15, 2002)

First off, I can't beleive that The HR20 or any DVR would not handle guide chages gracefully. Secondly, I can;t beleive DirecTV allows guide data changes while shows are on anyway, especially if they do not know they have programmed in a some graceful way to handle the change. 

I waited and waited to get the HR20 because of stuff like this and now I am worried again if it is no longer sufficient to monitor the To Do list (which we always did on the TiVo too because I know stuff can change and these systems are not perfect.) to ensure your stuff will be recorded.


----------



## lisakson (Sep 1, 2007)

Yep.. I had the same thing happen with Greys. Recorded 30min and stopped. CSI was recording on the other tuner.
I'm like everyone else....My wife was NOT happy....)-:


----------



## NR4P (Jan 16, 2007)

To add a different result, mine stopped after 43 minutes. Was recording HD OTA, not satellite.


----------



## compac (Oct 6, 2006)

Sorry Earl but ... we had it set to record also on D* R10 tivo unit as a back-up That one recorded it all

HR20 stopped at 28 min mark and started a few intro clips late... HR20 seems tobe the common factor... :flaiming:

Both recording one show at the time local feed, was watching a sd pev recorded movie TBS at the time Grey Att was tobe recorded...

Is it worth while to let D* know? :beatdeadhorse:



Earl Bonovich said:


> I was recording CSI at the same time (I didn't record Grey's)... and it recorded the entire event.
> 
> So I don't think DirecTV was "doing" anything with the HR20's at that time.
> 
> ...


----------



## Hilbe (Oct 10, 2005)

Any chance we can get DTV to rebroadcast Grey's at some early hour on some test / temp channel? My local stations do it all the time when there are weather coverage for tornados, storms, etc that interrupt a show.


----------



## mp7501 (Sep 5, 2007)

I had the same problem was recording it and it stopped recording after 30 minutes and came up with a message do I want to keep or delete this program.


----------



## Blaaamo (Nov 14, 2006)

I have a strange variation of this problem to report. Just skimmed the thread and didn't notice anyone else with the same situation.

I was taping Grey's and The Office at the same time. Started watching The Office between 9:35 and 9:40. When I pressed list, I noticed that Grey's Anatomy was no longer recording. I pressed Guide, saw that Grey's was still on and pressed the Record button to tape the rest.

This morning I looked and saw that I had a group of 2 Grey's Anatomy on the list. Fine, no problem. But, when I looked at each individually it said that one was 20 some minutes long and the other was 1 hour and 2 minutes. I verified that the 1:02 recording had a beginning, middle and an end, then deleted the partial recording.

Initially, until I saw this thread, I though I had seen a bug with my playlist not showing a show recording, that actually was. But now I'm just confused. Did 3 shows actually record at the same time (2 being the same)? Did the two recordings merge, yet, not delete the partial? Seems strange to me.


----------



## Sirshagg (Dec 30, 2006)

Blaaamo said:


> I have a strange variation of this problem to report. Just skimmed the thread and didn't notice anyone else with the same situation.
> 
> I was taping Grey's and The Office at the same time. Started watching The Office between 9:35 and 9:40. When I pressed list, I noticed that Grey's Anatomy was no longer recording. I pressed Guide, saw that Grey's was still on and pressed the Record button to tape the rest.
> 
> ...


Sounds like Grey's was buffered when you pressed record (and the new guide data was there) so it grabbed the whole thing.


----------



## ToddD (Jun 14, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> I'm seeking confirmation from a knowledgeable source right now and hopefully we can confirm that, at least, run time for Grey's was changed during the later part of the day.


Stuart: As it seemed that you might have a contact at ABC or an Affiliate, let me add one more thought to the discussion that I'd be grateful if you'd pass on to any ABC related contact that you might have. We have all been placing blame today first on DirecTv, then on TMS. One party that has not taken their share of the blame is ABC.....This would have not happened if they had not decided to do that disruptive going over the hour thing.

There is really no other reason for this when you think about it, but trying to make you miss the first few seconds of your next show or to cause your DVR to have a conflict and not record your next show. This one was extra bad because it was not 1 minute as they normally do but 2....this seemed to even confuse their own scheduling staff, hence the update to data during the show.

We do need to help DTV to understand what happened here so that they can fix this.....I hope they understand how serious this is....this is the kind of thing that can cause customers to leave! But ABC has their own share of blame here....I'd be happy if you can use any contacts you might have to relay that message.

TIA


----------



## wilmot3 (Jul 24, 2007)

Ok I am totally confused now ........Ifthe guide data was updated during the show then why was mine not affected.....I got the whole thing no problem

HR20-700
0x18a


----------



## elove (Aug 17, 2007)

I had the same thing happen, my HR-20 only recorded 30 minutes of Grey's. At first, I thought it was weather related because we had a rain storm on Thursday night. However, that was not the case because I have been using the HR10-250 (HD TIVO) as a backup and it recorded the whole thing.

Puzzling to say the least.


----------



## ToddD (Jun 14, 2006)

wilmot3 said:


> Ok I am totally confused now ........Ifthe guide data was updated during the show then why was mine not affected.....I got the whole thing no problem
> 
> HR20-700
> 0x18a


Do you pad?


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

wilmot3 said:


> Ok I am totally confused now ........Ifthe guide data was updated during the show then why was mine not affected.....I got the whole thing no problem
> 
> HR20-700
> 0x18a


I'm curious, did you have anything scheduled to record in the next hour? You're on the east coast, so you should have been affected like the rest of us. I'm on 0x19d, but I assume other affected EDT/CDT users were on 0x18a like you. /steve


----------



## John Buckingham (Sep 15, 2006)

AtlHDTV said:


> Here in Atlanta too. Stopped at 29 minutes.


Same here in Alpharetta


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

NR4P said:


> To add a different result, mine stopped after 43 minutes. Was recording HD OTA, not satellite.


More evidence that it was some kind of GUIDE data update processing SNAFU, because if it was an actual glitch in the program that triggered it, we all should have stopped recording around the same time. /steve


----------



## RamaX (Nov 24, 2006)

Hilbe said:


> Any chance we can get DTV to rebroadcast Grey's at some early hour on some test / temp channel? My local stations do it all the time when there are weather coverage for tornados, storms, etc that interrupt a show.


I wouldnt hold my breath on that one. Your local station is still an ABC affiliate, so they have certain rights and access to that show that DirecTV does not. Even if they wanted to do this, i would think it would take a pretty huge effort on their part to get permission from ABC and womever else, and by the time all the lawyers got done working that out, we could have seen this in reruns 3 times hehe.


----------



## wilmot3 (Jul 24, 2007)

ToddD said:


> Do you pad?


yes


----------



## Tinymon (Sep 21, 2007)

AtlHDTV said:


> Here in Atlanta too. Stopped at 29 minutes.


And here in Sandy Springs too. My butt just lost about a pound of flesh due to the SigO's wrath. It's the only show she watches.


----------



## wilmot3 (Jul 24, 2007)

Steve said:


> I'm curious, did you have anything scheduled to record in the next hour? You're on the east coast, so you should have been affected like the rest of us. I'm on 0x19d, but I assume other affected EDT/CDT users were on 0x18a like you. /steve


after thinking about this ......We watched Grey's cause i was also recording a show on fox at the same time ...could that have something to do with it......to answer your question no nothing after it


----------



## Sirshagg (Dec 30, 2006)

wilmot3 said:


> Ok I am totally confused now ........Ifthe guide data was updated during the show then why was mine not affected.....I got the whole thing no problem
> 
> HR20-700
> 0x18a


did it record 1:01 or 1:02?


----------



## rmartinj (Jan 29, 2007)

uh oh


----------



## wilmot3 (Jul 24, 2007)

Sirshagg said:


> did it record 1:01 or 1:02?


I padded it 3min so I actually got the beging of the next show


----------



## rmartinj (Jan 29, 2007)

wife will be very upset


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

wilmot3 said:


> after thinking about this ......We watched Grey's cause i was also recording a show on fox at the same time ...could that have something to do with it......to answer your question no nothing after it


So you watched it live, padded the recording and had nothing scheduled in the next hour. I could be wrong, but your use of the HR20 last night was probably atypical of most of the rest of us, which could explain why you got the whole thing. /steve


----------



## yyzdrm (Sep 21, 2007)

I have a HR21-100 and I was watching Chuck from the other night, and recording Grey's and CSI. I didn't notice any problems, at 10:15 or so when we went to watch Grey's there were 2 recordings, 31 min and 1hr 2min. I had one show scheduled to record at 10:00, which had no problems. It looks like I just got lucky.


----------



## joejhawk (Oct 3, 2006)

D* is smart enough to know that they shouldn't be messing with the guide when it is prime time, premiere week aren't they? Whatever it was, it looks like it was a major screw up on their part.


----------



## WERA689 (Oct 15, 2006)

I had Gray's quit on both HR20's, a 100 and a 700.
This discussion got me thinking, and I realized that I had the same problem the night before, during "Private Practice", the spinoff of Gray's. When I brought up the list, PP was there twice, one showing 25 or 30 minutes, the other for the full 1hr 2mins. I paid it no attention at the time, having been able to watch the show live, and simply deleted the short recording.
Obviously, I think this is indicative of the same problem, that perhaps was not as widely noticed as the Gray's problem. Like most here, Gray's did not "record twice", as PP had.
I also wonder if this could be somehow related to the "spontaneous reboot" reported by me and many others early Thursday morning? The concensus for that event was that the guide data had suffered an error, which caused the HR's to restart. Any connection here?


----------



## luckydob (Oct 2, 2006)

darekd said:


> Cars cost thousands of dollars and they brake constantly. TVs cost houndrads/thousands of dollars and they also brake all the time and you expect 100% reliability for mere 100 bucks. Wow.
> 
> No, we are volunteers that love to do it so you can have 100% reliable box. I thank Directv that they listen to us and put more and more requested features.


100 bucks a month over 10 years is THOUSANDS...which means you spend just as much as you do or more than the TV's we all have that DO NOT BREAK ALL THE TIME. Most TV's are solid and last 5-9 years.


----------



## ticmxman (Aug 28, 2007)

joejhawk said:


> D* is smart enough to know that they shouldn't be messing with the guide when it is prime time, premiere week aren't they? Whatever it was, it looks like it was a major screw up on their part.


Yea this is not good, but as was discussed earlier to day by Earl and others no one likes this but the question is what caused it and how can it be prevented from reoccuring. Some want to rant and I don't blame them. But if the info supplied from this thread helps supply data to D* to understand what went wrong then we are getting somewhere. While I am new to this site it is my style to troubleshoot problems to prevent there reoccurance...my field is not software, I'll leave that to others from what I understand in the year or so the HR20 has been out there have been numerous software upgrades that have improved the unit and a some of the information from this site has been very helpfull so here's my data:

Location: GA
HR20-700
Recorded:
9 pm
Tuner 1: Grey's... 29 min+-
Tuner 2 : CSI all
10 pm
Tuner 1: ER


----------



## John in Georgia (Sep 24, 2006)

Only got the first 29 minutes of "Grey's Anatomy" on our HR20-700 here in Atlanta. "The Office" recording was cancelled for some reason.


----------



## jagrim (Aug 26, 2006)

Only got the first 30 minutes. Looks like I'll have to watch it on ABC.com


----------



## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Hilbe said:


> Any chance we can get DTV to rebroadcast Grey's at some early hour on some test / temp channel? My local stations do it all the time when there are weather coverage for tornados, storms, etc that interrupt a show.


Just FYI that like most of the networks you can watch it online for free at ABC.com. At least you'll get to watch it.


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

This whole Gray's thing made me realize that I have mixed feelings about real-time adjustments once the ToDo list is set. If the HR20 constantly adjusted "on the fly", there's nothing to stop an unscrupulous network (notice I didn't name "ABC" ) from adding a minute or two, at the last minute, and upsetting planned recordings on two other channels in the next hour.

At least I know on Sunday nights I have to pad Shark by an hour in order not to miss it (or Cold Case before it) because a football game may run overtime. I can deal with that, because I expect it to happen. What I can't deal with is unknown GUIDE stop-time changes at the last minute.

*IMHO, GUIDE start/stop time data needs to be 'frozen' at some reasonable point in time*... at minimum 24 hours in advance, preferably further out than that, since I don't want to have to check the TODO list daily to make sure what I expect to happen is in fact what will happen. Just my .02.

/steve


----------



## NorfolkBruh (Jun 9, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Like I said in that same post you quoted....
> If you want to hold DirecTV responsible for it... be my guest...
> ...Or am I mistaken that discussion on what could be the cause not allowed here any more? Gosh forbid, that you take a step back from the emotional aspect of the event... and try to possible understand what could have caused it.


Earl, you already KNOW the respect that folks on here have for you but you MUST be intentionally misunderstanding this. There have been LOTS of issues with HR20-700 from release date to today. Many of us understand the incredible asset you have been and glory in the opportunity to participate in the beta process (CE).

BUT from the beginning and beyond the little goodies this has provided us (knowledge of the process if nothing else) a DVR is supposed to record. IF there is a problem with this function are you trying to imply D* is NOT supposed to let us know? This is not a common sense approach because corporations understand the avg consumer does not use common sense.

I EXPECT my DVR to record what I tell it to record in the way it was designed to record. This EST/CST issue that appears to have affected only the HR20 is something D* should have responded to almost immediately but as of today there is still nothing on their website about it.

I pay THEM to ensure my product works as advertised (even though it has NOT done so from the very beginning). I don't want to get into a pi***ng contest over the access D* has given it's customers but if they didn't foresee this at least they should have acknowledged this as a problem and do SOMETHING and no... I do NOT have a recommendation of what they can/should do but dang it... I want my DVR to digitally record my video which is why I pay an extra fee.


----------



## NorfolkBruh (Jun 9, 2007)

bonscott87 said:


> Just FYI that like most of the networks you can watch it online for free at ABC.com. At least you'll get to watch it.


Bonscott87 I appreciate you and the others who make this recommendation but I don't have my computer to watch shows online for free. I have my DVR so I can watch my shows they way they are advertised to be available WHEN I want to watch them.


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> Just FYI that like most of the networks you can watch it online for free at ABC.com. At least you'll get to watch it.


Ya. I'm lucky enough to own 3 plasmas, one 50" connected to an awesome surround sound system, and two 42" Panny's, and the wife and I had to watch this week's Gray's on a 14" laptop screen during dinner. It was slightly better than: "How was _your_ day, dear?" :lol: /steve


----------



## NorfolkBruh (Jun 9, 2007)

By the way the only thing I had set to record on the HR20-700 during that time frame was Grey's Anatomy. We were upstairs in the bedroom watching other shows on the HR10. Fortunately we also recorded Grey's on the OTHER HR10 so we are able to watch it tonight but as I typed in my previous post: I PREFERRED it to be recorded on the HR20 and only used the HR10 because I forgot it was on the season pass.

Again, the ONLY show set to record last night on the HR20 was Grey's Anatomy (except Jeopardy at 7:30p-8p).


----------



## AlexCF (Oct 14, 2006)

If we're right about the cause of the error, it makes you wonder if they ever tested the unit to see what would happen when a guide listing is modified while the program is being recorded. That sounds like a test case you'd expect them perform.

All I'd like is some acknowledgment from DirecTV that they're not going to ignore the problem. Super crop has been around from day one, that doesn't give me a lot of faith that they're keen on fixing things like this.


----------



## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

NorfolkBruh said:


> Bonscott87 I appreciate you and the others who make this recommendation but I don't have my computer to watch shows online for free. I have my DVR so I can watch my shows they way they are advertised to be available WHEN I want to watch them.


Uhhhh, nobody argues that. It is only a suggestion to help you and others with the current situation. It's not an alternative on a week in week out basis but if you have to watch this episode then it's better then nothing, correct? That's all the suggestion is for since many people don't realize that you can get these shows for free on the network web site or from Itunes.

About 3 years ago I had my main DirecTivo take a crap and I missed every show from Friday night. So I had to Bittorrent Stargate, Atlantis and BSG. Did I want to watch these shows on my computer? No. But this was better then nothing and I didn't miss them.


----------



## richa65 (Dec 4, 2006)

AlexCF said:


> If we're right about the cause of the error, it makes you wonder if they ever tested the unit to see what would happen when a guide listing is modified while the program is being recorded. That sounds like a test case you'd expect them perform.


If the test case is as simple as what is being discussed here and it wasn't in their regression suite from about day 1, then they need to seriously consider bringing in some help.


----------



## MrLatte (Aug 19, 2007)

richa65 said:


> If the test case is as simple as what is being discussed here and it wasn't in their regression suite from about day 1, then they need to seriously consider bringing in some help.


Bringing in some help...like TiVo??


----------



## Satchaser (Sep 23, 2006)

I set the Hr20-700 to record Grey's Anatomy and an additional program at the same time with no padding on either. Went to an H20-600 and watched a third program as only two tuners in the Hr20.

When the wife tried to view Grey's Anatomy tonight (Friday 9/28) she couldn't get more than 3 minutes of the show. The timeline showed 29 minutes but only about 2-3 minutes recorded. None of the trick play keys worked on the partial recording.

My theory is that Grey's Anatomy was recording on Tuner 2 with no buffer and the other program was recording on Tuner 1 with the buffer. When the programing change (1:01 to 1:02) came down while the show was recording the tuner interpreted it as the end of the show and since it wasn't buffered it only recorded the intro. I didn't get 28,29,30 or 31 minutes even though it showed a 30 minute time line for the program.

Seems that the HR20 needs to have a different marker than the clock to indicate the start and stop of a program.


----------



## jspencer (Sep 23, 2007)

I got only 32 mins of this also. WTF. I just got the HR-20 this week and I am not very popular around the house.


----------



## jtrout4801 (Aug 23, 2007)

I Had the same darn problem - - my wife just about flipped a biscuit on that - -

glad they have the online episodes!!!


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

To recap, there was some sort of problem with the guide data stream. It's hard to say exactly what happened but it was a bad deal. Not 10% HR20's fault though.


----------



## Starchild (Sep 4, 2007)

I am glad that all of you had this same problem. My wife was not happy with me when our DVR stopped at the 30 minute mark. We did not watch the show until Friday night, but I remembered seeing this thread during the day, although I didn't read it. Thank you for not letting me think I was the one who did something wrong.


----------



## NorfolkBruh (Jun 9, 2007)

Stuart Sweet said:


> To recap, there was some sort of problem with the guide data stream. It's hard to say exactly what happened but it was a bad deal. Not 10% HR20's fault though.


Really Stuart? If not the the HR20s fault then how come NO OTHER UNIT is reporting the same problem? Waiting to "hear" about H20, H21, R15, HR10, Sat-60, etc. that had the exact same problem at exactly the same time as this 10 pages (so far) thread.

Seems to me that IF the problem was from the guide data stream *only*, ALL DVR's using this data stream would have been affected.

To recap the recap: There was some sort of problem with the guide data stream. It's hard to say exactly what happened but it WAS a bad deal. In all likelihood something in the HR20 (700 & 100) dropped the parts of the show (didn't record it all).


----------



## radamo (Nov 13, 2003)

Ok, great... so we all got half a show for Grey's premier... I have been using a Tivo or DVR for about 3 years now and have never had this problem... Keep telling me how great this HR20 is... 

We are all long term beta testers!!!! And we pay for the privilege...

Is the show being made available as VOD or do I have to watch it on my PC for Free?


----------



## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

NorfolkBruh said:


> Really Stuart? *If not the the HR20s fault then how come NO OTHER UNIT is reporting the same problem?* Waiting to "hear" about H20, H21, R15, HR10, Sat-60, etc. that had the exact same problem at exactly the same time as this 10 pages (so far) thread.


None of which record Mpeg4 HD Locals.


----------



## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

I find it hilarious that so many people are so mad over a missed recording of a TV show. If your wife is mad, I'm sure she can get over it...If she's going to leave you over a failed recording of a TV show, then your marriage wasn't solid anyway. The real kicker is it brings back out all those TIVO huggers. Funny, it was NEVER Tivo's fault when shows had guide data wrong and 'Keep or Delete' popped up before a show would end. Let's quit TIVO hugging and help D* tech and programmers try & isolate & fix the issue.


----------



## mtnagel (Sep 18, 2006)

sigma1914 said:


> I find it hilarious that so many people are so mad over a missed recording of a TV show. If your wife is mad, I'm sure she can get over it...If she's going to leave you over a failed recording of a TV show, then your marriage wasn't solid anyway. The real kicker is it brings back out all those TIVO huggers. Funny, it was NEVER Tivo's fault when shows had guide data wrong and 'Keep or Delete' popped up before a show would end. Let's quit TIVO hugging and help D* tech and programmers try & isolate & fix the issue.


I'm definitely not a "Tivo Hugger," but that honestly never happened with my SD Directivos. I can honestly say that it never missed a recording or stopped recording in the middle.


----------



## Tugboat (Jul 11, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> You are correct... they have a responsibility to their customer.
> 
> But how do you check for 1,000s channels worth of 24/7; 14 days worth of guide data.
> 
> ...


Wny do you feel compelled to always, always defend Directv? This was an egregious example of screwing up. Ultimately, Directv is responsible. Yet, you always bend over backwards to blame anyone but them when something goes wrong. Just more of the same.

It recorded fine on our R10s, like it always has.


----------



## saryon (Aug 12, 2007)

Upon further investigation, I seem to have a wierder situation.

I had 2 Grey's entries in my list page (HR20-700 ver 19d). One was 30min, one was 1hr 2min. We watched the 1hr 2min entry and it was complete, including ending credits and next-week preview. The 30min entry obviously was only 30min long. I then deleved the 1hr 2min version, and both remained in my playlist. Then I deleted the 30min version and both came out of my playlist.

I was doing a one-time selected recording, not manual by time or as spart of a series link.


----------



## kramerboy (Mar 10, 2006)

sigma1914 said:


> I find it hilarious that so many people are so mad over a missed recording of a TV show. If your wife is mad, I'm sure she can get over it...If she's going to leave you over a failed recording of a TV show, then your marriage wasn't solid anyway. The real kicker is it brings back out all those TIVO huggers. Funny, it was NEVER Tivo's fault when shows had guide data wrong and 'Keep or Delete' popped up before a show would end. Let's quit TIVO hugging and help D* tech and programmers try & isolate & fix the issue.


This post adds ZERO value to the entire discussion.

Seriously?


----------



## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

Tugboat said:


> Wny do you feel compelled to always, always defend Directv? This was an egregious example of screwing up. Ultimately, Directv is responsible. Yet, you always bend over backwards to blame anyone but them when something goes wrong. Just more of the same.
> 
> It recorded fine on our R10s, like it always has.


Earl has a point. It would be almost impossible, and definitly impractical, to go through all the guide data every week. I certaintly don't want to pay any extra to have a new departement at D* to correct everyone elses errors.

And you know that cost would be passed on to us. 

IMHO, it's up to the content provider to ensure their data is correct.

Mike


----------



## barryb (Aug 27, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> And where are you located....
> And did you get ALL of the recording, without padding (including the last minute).
> 
> We have come to the conclusion that it wasn't a broadcast issue (as the H20 people are not reporting any issues)... but, possible an guide data change... which ABC does control the source of....


I walked in last night to see my lovely wife watching the end credits, so our HR-20 700 recorded the entire program.


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

sigma1914 said:


> I find it hilarious that so many people are so mad over a missed recording of a TV show. If your wife is mad, I'm sure she can get over it...If she's going to leave you over a failed recording of a TV show, then your marriage wasn't solid anyway. The real kicker is it brings back out all those TIVO huggers. Funny, it was NEVER Tivo's fault when shows had guide data wrong and 'Keep or Delete' popped up before a show would end. Let's quit TIVO hugging and help D* tech and programmers try & isolate & fix the issue.


Ignoring the irrelevant, unhelpful and uncalled for observations in this post, this whole Gray's Anatomy SNAFU is evidence that D* still has a bit to learn from TiVo regarding GUIDE data update management.

TiVo apparently "freezes" GUIDE data changes after a certain point in time, "locking-in" the ToDo list. This is most likely why, when a network decides at the last minute to let a show run a minute longer, many TiVo users complain the last minute of a show is cut off. I, for one, would prefer that behavior than running the risk that scheduled shows on different channels in the next hour might be bumped by a last minute network maneuver.

*I don't know if it can be done, but the ideal solution might be that when the HR20 is offered a GUIDE "stop time" update for a recording in progress or an already scheduled recording, it should only be applied when it won't create a new recording conflict. *

/steve

*EDIT: I actually came up with some other options in this thread.*


----------



## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> And where are you located....
> And did you get ALL of the recording, without padding (including the last minute).
> 
> We have come to the conclusion that it wasn't a broadcast issue (as the H20 people are not reporting any issues)... but, possible an guide data change... which ABC does control the source of....


In my situation it simply stopped recording.

The buffer was intact(all green on the progress bar) from the time it stopped.

This was approximately 20min after it stopped recording.

It was still buffering as it should have been.

Mike


----------



## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

My opinion and post gets slammed, but redundant posts of unhappy wives is ok? My post was relevant...it pointed out a Tivo fault (God forbid) & also tries to help people realize it's not healthy to be angry/upset over an unrecorded tv show. Be happy!


----------



## kbuente (Mar 25, 2007)

Interesting here...my recording of it with my DVR from E* worked just fine :grin:


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

sigma1914 said:


> My opinion and post gets slammed, but redundant posts of unhappy wives is ok? My post was relevant...it pointed out a Tivo fault (God forbid) & also tries to help people realize it's not healthy to be angry/upset over an unrecorded tv show. Be happy!


Ya. I, for one, may have overreacted. Got to bed real late last night, and I'm grouchy when I first wake up in the morning. /s


----------



## Starchild (Sep 4, 2007)

sigma1914 said:


> My opinion and post gets slammed, but redundant posts of unhappy wives is ok? My post was relevant...it pointed out a Tivo fault (God forbid) & also tries to help people realize it's not healthy to be angry/upset over an unrecorded tv show. Be happy!


Get over it.


----------



## radamo (Nov 13, 2003)

mtnagel said:


> I'm definitely not a "Tivo Hugger," but that honestly never happened with my SD Directivos. I can honestly say that it never missed a recording or stopped recording in the middle.


Never happened to me either... But I am a Tivo hugger... Nice to have hardware that works...

I don't like paying to be a beta tester...


----------



## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Starchild said:


> Get over it.


Get over what?



radamo said:


> Never happened to me either... But I am a Tivo hugger... Nice to have hardware that works...
> 
> I don't like paying to be a beta tester...


You aren't being forced "to be a beta tester."


----------



## NorfolkBruh (Jun 9, 2007)

sigma1914 said:


> None of which record Mpeg4 HD Locals.


Not sure of the relevance of that since I am in a DMA that does not have MPEG 4 locals... OTA SD and HD only.


----------



## NorfolkBruh (Jun 9, 2007)

sigma1914 said:


> I find it hilarious that so many people are so mad over a missed recording of a TV show. If your wife is mad, I'm sure she can get over it...If she's going to leave you over a failed recording of a TV show, then your marriage wasn't solid anyway. The real kicker is it brings back out all those TIVO huggers. Funny, it was NEVER Tivo's fault when shows had guide data wrong and 'Keep or Delete' popped up before a show would end. Let's quit TIVO hugging and help D* tech and programmers try & isolate & fix the issue.


Sigma... it's not so much "mad" as disappointed. For many of us, for what ever personal reason, we ENJOY tv and we enjoy the shows we watch. When we cannot watch them we record them so when we are NOT doing the OTHER important things in our lives, we can watch the recorded shows. The key point here is RECORDED shows.

These things (DVRs) are not the end all/be all of our lives but some of the readers here have spent THOUSAND$ to enjoy this particular fruit of man's technological genius. The money we invested and our inability to totally enjoy that investment is why there are so many posts about ANY failure of our units (probably the LOWEST cost when you include the HD TV's, Amps, receivers, cabling, projectors, etc.). WE do NOT expect you to understand but we expect to not be minimized when we use this forum Chris Blount created to express our joy when it works and anguish when it fails. In THIS instance, the unit failed and that failure was not due to a single users' actions. That failure was due, in part apparently, to the way the HR20 processes guide data.


----------



## PTopo (Jan 12, 2007)

I recorded it manually because the 1 minute overlap conflicted with two other shows to record. Got the entire 60 minutes.


----------



## qubit (Mar 17, 2006)

Our's stopped at 30 minutes too. No conflicts and has to be D*'s problem not the stations as HDVR2 recored exact same stuff just fine. Every time I think about getting rid of the HDVR2 for the HR20 I'm presented with a reason to not do that yet. Reliability of recordings should be their top priority with this box first and foremost.


----------



## Castlebill (Jul 25, 2006)

Recorded it with no problem.


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

For those interested in expressing their views on how D* should handle last minute GUIDE changes in the future, I've started a POLL here. /steve


----------



## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

NorfolkBruh said:


> Sigma... it's not so much "mad" as disappointed. For many of us, for what ever personal reason, we ENJOY tv and we enjoy the shows we watch. When we cannot watch them we record them so when we are NOT doing the OTHER important things in our lives, we can watch the recorded shows. The key point here is RECORDED shows.
> 
> These things (DVRs) are not the end all/be all of our lives but some of the readers here have spent THOUSAND$ to enjoy this particular fruit of man's technological genius. The money we invested and our inability to totally enjoy that investment is why there are so many posts about ANY failure of our units (probably the LOWEST cost when you include the HD TV's, Amps, receivers, cabling, projectors, etc.). WE do NOT expect you to understand but we expect to not be minimized when we use this forum Chris Blount created to express our joy when it works and anguish when it fails. In THIS instance, the unit failed and that failure was not due to a single users' actions. That failure was due, in part apparently, to the way the HR20 processes guide data.


Excellent explanation. It's hard to tell peoples emotions in posts, and many seemed mad/angry. I like your word, disappointed, better. I was disappointed when I saw my recording messed up.

My apologies to those I may have 'minimized.' I just try defending the HR20 more because I like the unit and have accepted the fact Tivo is almost obsolete for the future of D*.


----------



## richa65 (Dec 4, 2006)

sigma1914 said:


> You aren't being forced "to be a beta tester."


Well, I'm not a lawyer, but according to the 2 year contract that I "agreed to" in order to "lease" this "piece of advanced consumer hardware", I actually am kind of being forced. Because the fact that I had this same error twice in the same week - that's very much Beta behavior.

There are a lot of complex things going on this box, but to be fair, Tivo has had the art of actually recording shows as scheduled mastered for about a decade now. Do I expect to see a few dropouts from the HD? Yeah, sure, I can live with that (though they are pushing my limits). BUT JUST RECORD MY SHOWS FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!

It's not about whining over missing a single show. It's about dealing with this thing not doing anything right for 2 months last fall - having it work acceptably for 6 months, and now going back a year. I've had enough. I pay $70 per month in order to watch about 6 hours of TV a week. When I plop my weary ass down in my comfortable chair - I just want to watch. I don't want to go off on this site to figure out WTF is wrong with my equipment. If you don't understand where I'm coming from, that's fine. But finding it "hilarious" that other people just want to be a user of this equipment is extremely juvenile.


----------



## cdc101 (Jan 9, 2007)

atdauph said:


> My HR20-100 recorded the whole thing, as far as I know. My wife would have definitely let me know if there was a problem.
> 
> I did pad it by 2 minutes because I know sometimes these shows run over.
> 
> Recorded on MPEG4 local, not OTA. Central Time Zone


That's weird if it actually _did _record the whole thing. I'm also in the Houston area and mine only recorded the first 30 minutes. I did NOT pad any though.

Could it be a HR20-700 only issue?


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

cdc101 said:


> That's weird if it actually _did _record the whole thing. I'm also in the Houston area and mine only recorded the first 30 minutes. I did NOT pad any though.
> 
> Could it be a HR20-700 only issue?


No, I think the padding made a difference based on similar posts by other's who padded and got the whole thing. Also, those watching it live at the same time sometimes got the whole recording as well. /steve


----------



## WERA689 (Oct 15, 2006)

cdc101 said:


> That's weird if it actually _did _record the whole thing. I'm also in the Houston area and mine only recorded the first 30 minutes. I did NOT pad any though.
> 
> Could it be a HR20-700 only issue?


No, because it happened on both my -700 and my -100. Also, I was watching live on the -100 and simply didn't notice that the recording had stopped. I know that the 700 was tuned to OTA, but I'm not sure if the 100 was tuned to OTA or D* MPEG4 local feed. Oh, and I almost never pad my recordings; only football games, and I'll add 30 mins to an hour to them, not 1 or 2 minutes.

I still haven't heard anyone tie this event to the guide-data-error-reboot that occurred within 12 hours of this problem....


----------



## cbaker (Dec 20, 2006)

Tried to watch Grey's Anatomy today (Sat) (recorded on Thur) to find out only 29 minutes recorded. The history showed "partial" and then on the details on that message, at the bottom it said "This episode was partially recorded because the program became unavailable. (13)".

It recorded on ABC - Chicago (Ch 7) HD off Satellite, not OTA.


----------



## NickD (Apr 5, 2007)

My wife just got home from work and confirmed that ours recorded only 30 minutes as well, but both of our Directv tivos recorded the full episode. She was so pissed that she almost came upstairs to wake me up and find out why it didn't record, then she figured screw it and went to the basement to watch it:lol:


----------



## cbaker (Dec 20, 2006)

NorfolkBruh said:


> Sigma... it's not so much "mad" as disappointed. For many of us, ..... [snip]


Totally Agree. Nicely stated!

I would just like to add that the entire east coast could lose their recording of some show in a hurricane due to rain fade. To me the issue isn't the one lost show. To me it is a more systemic:

1) After a year of messed up recordings, audio issues, pixelization, etc, etc, etc I think many of us are having flashbacks and concerns these issues are rearing their heads again (not really fixed). If this happened out of the blue for the first time, I don't think people would be so heated. But the fact is this product has been TRYING AT BEST for most of us.

2) But even now, a year later, there are so many core issues that just don't work right (missed recordings, CID, SL limit, CIR, etc) as they should or were announced. Recording failures are really basic as NorfolkBruh points out and really at the core.

I will be the first to say that the HR20 is awesome when compared to where it was a year ago. Kudos D*. But again they did not finish addressing core issue and are getting away from addressing these pesky issues prior to adding new features. Get a rock solid core DVR before adding new "sexy" features (like DoD, eSATA, MS, etc).

3) There are different levels of "who is responsible and in turn what is acceptable". Depending on the size of the business (size of revenue and customer base), there are different levels of acceptable functionality. For example, the local gas station is having a bad day if their visa processing machine stops working. They are loosing money, but they can deal with it. It might take them severals days to get things fixed, but will cope and everyone is understanding.

But if a multi-billion dollar company (say Citibank) looses it's ability to process those credit cards, they could be loosing millions a minute, let alone the customer statisfaction. They deal in a realm of 99.999% reliability (total outages of seconds per year).

I design and implement IT infrastructure for these types of tolerances and the reliability of the system as a whole is considered "mission critical." D* as a multi-million (billion?) dollar company with hundreds of thousands customers appears to make the broadcast capabilities of their business "mission critical." My issue is that I don't see that same comitment on the DVR hardware side of their business.

If a satellite failed and a 100 stations drop off tomorrow, does D* have a plan? My guess is they do. If the guide data from TMZ fails tomorrow, does D* have a plan? Not sure they do. If the guide data is working but just plain messed up on a bunch of shows, do they have a plan? What if the HR20 starts messing up shows for their DVR customers (regardless of why), what is acceptable?

[IMHO - For a company like D*, I don't find it acceptable.]

For companies like Citibank, Google, Yahoo, Amazon, ... every scenerio is consider and a plan developed.

4) I love this site and truely appreciate how D* uses the info in this forum to produce a better product, faster. But there is a serious problem with this process as it currently exists. It is one-way. We take time to give our issues/experiences and can submit theories about what is happening. But we never get any feedback. We will never know what happened. Heck, we will never know if it even gets fixed unless it never happens again. At least some basic acknowledgements from D* would go a long way to enhancing this process. Thanks D*, I do appreciate it. But it could be a whole lot better!


----------



## cruise350 (Dec 25, 2006)

Both of my 700s stapped at 29 minutes, both recording the mpeg4 locals.


----------



## Starchild (Sep 4, 2007)

Although our recording stopped unexpectedly after 30 minutes, this is the first known happening of this kind in the year that I have owned my HR-20. I think in the light of all the complaints I have heard about this model in the last year, I am quite happy with my HR-20.


----------



## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

sigma1914 said:


> I find it hilarious that so many people are so mad over a missed recording of a TV show. If your wife is mad, I'm sure she can get over it...If she's going to leave you over a failed recording of a TV show, then your marriage wasn't solid anyway. The real kicker is it brings back out all those TIVO huggers. Funny, it was NEVER Tivo's fault when shows had guide data wrong and 'Keep or Delete' popped up before a show would end. Let's quit TIVO hugging and help D* tech and programmers try & isolate & fix the issue.


I'm glad you find it funny but if you expected to see the Season Premier of course you're probably mad.

It's not the end of the world...nobodys leaving anybody...people are just disappointed and venting.

I'm not sure that there's anything the D* tech/programmers can to about it though. They can't control the data given them.

IMHO it's impractical to expect D* will review and correct someone elses errors.

Mike


----------



## luckydob (Oct 2, 2006)

MicroBeta said:


> I'm glad you find it funny but if you expected to see the Season Premier of course you're probably mad.
> 
> It's not the end of the world...nobodys leaving anybody...people are just disappointed and venting.
> 
> ...


Based on your opinion, D* tech/programmers can do 1 of 2 things. Give up as you suggest and just go back to Tivo software; or they can figure out how to get the problem solved. Data or not...WHY DOES EVERY OTHER UNIT WORK WITH THAT SAME DATA?!?! C'mon Mike...wake up and smell something for cripes sake.

IMHO if the data is that bad...use another provider. I pay D* for a service and they need to control their business and the products that are tied to it. If you buy a car do you blame the manufacturer of the handles if they break on the car? NO, you go back to GM, Toyota or whoever you get the cars from. WAKE UP.


----------



## vidiot (Apr 22, 2003)

Maybe slightly off topic, but if you missed any of Grey's Anatomy (or any ABC show for that matter) you can always view it online at abc.com.


----------



## Runch Machine (Nov 20, 2005)

Mine stopped recording at 29 minutes also, OTA as well. Fortunatly I also have a Tivo Series 3 which works reliabley, so I switched over to that. I'm glad I'm not the only one who had the problem. I'd also appreciate an explination. I've only had the H20 for about a week, having just switched from an HR10-250 TIvo based Directv receiver.


----------



## gulfwarvet (Mar 7, 2007)

didn't have a issue, recorded 1:01 minutes. (Sat HD)


----------



## funhouse69 (Mar 26, 2007)

This is somewhat ironic, I have the same Season Pass as the over 250 posters here has set up for Grey's and I just happened to see this Thread while sitting here at work. I logged in to my HR20 and checked and sure enough I am one of the unlucky ones that had the show stop at 30 minutes as well. 

While I didn't go through and read all of the posts I did see some mention of bad guide data. Ok sure it happens but where did this bad data come from? I have heard that TiVO was so great / accurate when it came to times and the proper flagging of episodes (First Run / Repeat) because they would massage their data. 

Whatever the case is there are over 10 pages of very, very unhappy people here and I know for one my g/f friend is going to be very, very unhappy when she finds out that her "Show" didn't get recorded properly. Do you have any clue how hard it was to sell her on the HR20? Yeah now she loves that her shows are in HD but I will get endless crap for this and tell me that a great picture isn't worth anything if it didn't record. 

The bottom line here is that a DVR is expected to work and do what it is supposed to do and record things properly. While a lot of us here understands that any computer or in this case DVR needs accurate guide data for that to happen the average person only knows that their show didn't record properly and doesn't give a crap as to the reason why. 

This better be a wake up call that D* needs to get a better data stream for our DVR's to work off of or D* is going to find themselves with a whole lot fewer customers because their significant others killed them or at the very least thew their DVR out the window :eek2:

To even think that someone may say or suggest that if a show is that important I should have monitored it, had a TiVO as a backup is insane!!!


----------



## mtnagel (Sep 18, 2006)

funhouse69 said:


> I logged in to my HR20...


What does that mean?


----------



## funhouse69 (Mar 26, 2007)

mtnagel said:


> What does that mean?


Sorry no secret decoder ring or any special feature, what I meant was that I logged in to my Slingbox Pro and accessed my HR20 remotely. Didn't mean to cause any confusion


----------



## mtnagel (Sep 18, 2006)

funhouse69 said:


> Sorry no secret decoder ring or any special feature, what I meant was that I logged in to my Slingbox Pro and accessed my HR20 remotely. Didn't mean to cause any confusion


Doh! I guess I need more coffee this morning. I should have realized that.


----------



## Sciron (Oct 1, 2007)

I opened a case with D about this issue and this was their response!!!!

*'I have researched the issue and it does not look like we are having any problems with the HR20 not recording or partially recording. We will continue to monitor this, but this should not happen again. If you continue to have problems, please call us at 800-531-5000 for technical support.'*

Judging by this thread there is obviously a problem!!!


----------



## jcormack (Jan 19, 2007)

You can add my name to the list....only 30 minutes recorded...error 13. I had ER set to record after Grey's, Smallville before .......both of them recorded properly.


----------



## markman07 (Dec 22, 2005)

Research = Asked cubicle buddy.


----------



## compac (Oct 6, 2006)

Has anyone called this in to D*???

Just called to retention said they NEVER heard of this problem...must just be a problem w/ MY hr20 

Glad they cleared this up...:lol:


----------



## Sciron (Oct 1, 2007)

compac said:


> Has anyone called this in to D*???
> 
> Just called to retention said they NEVER heard of this problem...must just be a problem w/ MY hr20
> 
> Glad they cleared this up...:lol:





Sciron said:


> I opened a case with D about this issue and this was their response!!!!
> 
> *'I have researched the issue and it does not look like we are having any problems with the HR20 not recording or partially recording. We will continue to monitor this, but this should not happen again. If you continue to have problems, please call us at 800-531-5000 for technical support.'*
> 
> Judging by this thread there is obviously a problem!!!


Posted above...


----------



## MrLatte (Aug 19, 2007)

Once again I'll have to offer my take on this:

I recorded the east coast feed of Grey's at 6pm and I had nothing set to record at 7pm. I don't believe this had anything to do with conflicts at the next hour.

I also don't think the guide data was bad. What I do think happened is the guide data CHANGED as the show went from 61 minutes to 62 minutes. This change seemed to happen during the east coast broadcast and since the HR20 is processing guide data 24/7, it removed the old show (61 minutes) and replaced it with the new show data (62 minutes).

When the old show data (61 minutes) was removed the HR20 stopped recording - this matches up with the message in the History area stating that the show became unavailable. When the new show appeared (62 minutes), for some reason, the HR20 didn't pick it up and record. Perhaps because it thought it already recorded that episode?

I think it all comes down to how DirecTV is going to handle late show changes in its software. This is a completely different problem then which show gets priority at the next hour.

Interestingly enough, I see that next week The Office goes from 9-10:01pm and Grey's goes from 9-10:02pm. So having Grey's go long actually gives The Office room to record (if you were recording Big Shots which starts at 10:02 after Grey's).


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

MrLatte said:


> I think it all comes down to how DirecTV is going to handle late show changes in its software. This is a completely different problem then which show gets priority at the next hour.


I think the problems are related. If there is an available tuner in the next hour, I'm pretty sure we would all agree that the currently recording show's stop time could be extended.

But it's often the case that shows on different channels _are _scheduled to record in the next hour. What if the HR20 wants to extend "Grey's" in that case? Which shows should get priority? That question is under discussion here. /steve


----------



## radamo (Nov 13, 2003)

I called D* about this also and was told they had not even heard there was an issue. I was just hoping to hear that they found what caused the issue and fixed it...


----------



## forecheck (Jun 13, 2002)

Mine recorded Grey's without a problem, but the Office played for about a second then put up the "Do you want to Delete" message. Luckily, the HR10 is still hooked up as a backup so it got the Office.


----------



## NorfolkBruh (Jun 9, 2007)

I'm at a total loss as too why so many people here think it's a guide problem and that it even matters that it WAS a guide problem! *Look... THIS unit... the HR20 screwed up.* Not the H20... not the R15... not the HR10... the "flagship" of the HD fleet within the DirecTV family.

So it was one show (this time) but this is still a common complaint for the HR20. A DVR should RECORD and it should record the way it was supposed to (or at least advertised to) record.

A "guide problem" indeed. Who cares at the consumer level when we saw our OTHER units (which use the EXACT SAME guide data) record the show flawlessly!


----------



## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

luckydob said:


> Based on your opinion, D* tech/programmers can do 1 of 2 things. Give up as you suggest and just go back to Tivo software; or they can figure out how to get the problem solved. Data or not...WHY DOES EVERY OTHER UNIT WORK WITH THAT SAME DATA?!?! C'mon Mike...wake up and smell something for cripes sake.
> 
> IMHO if the data is that bad...use another provider. I pay D* for a service and they need to control their business and the products that are tied to it. If you buy a car do you blame the manufacturer of the handles if they break on the car? NO, you go back to GM, Toyota or whoever you get the cars from. WAKE UP.


First of all I'm wide awake and if you could see my nose you'd know I don't have any problems with my sense of smell. 

Second, when did I ever say D* tech/programmers should _"Give up...and just go back to Tivo software"_? Where did that come from. I've never said nor implied it. I have no idea how you made that leap.

My comments were only to _Grey's_ and no other issues. Further, I was replying to sigma1914's post trying to make the point that people have every right to be mad and vent for missing a season premier. I never said anything about placing blame for the HR20's software/guide/recording issues anywhere at all. Yet you seem to be implying that I'm saying it's not D*'s software problem.

The HR20 has problems that seem to be related to the guide(e.g. canceling a recording). I haven't had any myself but it's a problem with many others. IMHO this is most definitely a software problem. Weather it's software by its self or as it relates to system setup it's still D* software problem.

In the end I was just defending those who were mad about missing a season premier.

The question, only as it relates to what happened to _Grey's_, is should D* be checking every piece of guide data for thousands of shows every week. What sort of resources are needed to do that? It wouldn't be three guys in a cubicle.

I'm sorry but I put the blame for _Grey's_ squarely in ABC's lap.

Don't take any of this to mean anything other then what I actually said. 

Mike


----------



## elove (Aug 17, 2007)

Well it happened to me. The HR20-100 only recorded the first 30 minutes and stopped. Luckily, I still have the HR10-250 HD Tivo as a backup. The HD Tivo recorded the whole show.


----------



## AFH (Nov 4, 2002)

I didn't know this thread was here but it happened to me as well. Now I check my shows in the list to make sure that every bit of it was recorded. Directv should not be happy with screwups like this. It's most definitely their equipment that was the cause of the problem.


----------



## Eich (Jan 9, 2007)

elove said:


> Well it happened to me. The HR20-100 only recorded the first 30 minutes and stopped. Luckily, I still have the HR10-250 HD Tivo as a backup. The HD Tivo recorded the whole show.


I wish I still had my old reliable (From a recording standpoint) HR10. Now, if I want somethign to record reliably, my backup is a first generation Sony SAT60 Standard Def receiver. My HR20's are hit or miss with lovely "Partial" or "Unexpected Error" in the history.


----------



## luckydob (Oct 2, 2006)

MicroBeta said:


> I'm sorry but I put the blame for _Grey's_ squarely in ABC's lap.
> 
> Don't take any of this to mean anything other then what I actually said.
> 
> Mike


Why would it then work with all the other DVR's in existence, but not the HR20?

D*'s problem and he HR20 failed. NOT ABC issue...it's a D* issue with handling guide data.


----------



## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

luckydob said:


> Why would it then work with all the other DVR's in existence, but not the HR20?
> 
> D*'s problem and he HR20 failed. NOT ABC issue...it's a D* issue with handling guide data.


I did say the in the same post....

*The HR20 has problems that seem to be related to the guide(e.g. canceling a recording). I haven't had any myself but it's a problem with many others. IMHO this is most definitely a software problem. Weather it's software by its self or as it relates to system setup it's still D* software problem.*

I assume that if nearly every HR20 dropped the last half _Grey's_ that there is some unique problem with the supplied guide data. Otherwise it would be a more wide spread problem(incomplete recording vs missed recordings).

There is no doubt that the HR20 software needs work. However if a network is going to do last min. changes it has to be done correctly.

The good news could be that a single unique glitch in the guide data like this could provide a key to the overall HR20 guide issues.

The point I was trying to make was that the HR20 has guide issues and when ABC supplied bad data it screwed up the recording. That was the fault of the HR20. However it wouldn't have happened if ABC hadn't made last minute changes with faulty data.

Mike


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

MicroBeta said:


> The point I was trying to make was that the HR20 has guide issues and when ABC supplied bad data it screwed up the recording. That was the fault of the HR20. However it wouldn't have happened if ABC hadn't made last minute changes with faulty data.


Who said the ABC data was faulty? Our guess is that ABC sent a last minute extension to the STOP time. From their perspective, it was probably exactly what they wanted to send. /steve


----------



## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

Steve said:


> Who said the ABC data was faulty? Our guess is that ABC sent a last minute extension to the STOP time. From their perspective, it was probably exactly what they wanted to send. /steve


You're right. I don't know that it was faulty. Maybe not the best choice of words.

A last minute change to the stop shouldn't have caused the HR20 gag.

The following is assumption/opinion and not based in knowledge of the HR20's hardware and software.

Either...
1. The HR20 can't handle last minute changes to the guide.
2. The HR20 couldn't interprete the data supplied.
3. Incorrect format/info in the last minute change.

So....
1. It is possible that the HR20 receives the new guide data and doesn't know what to do. It might not have a provision for changed data for a show in progress. It didn't know what to do so it gagged.
2. It is possible that this is true. Also, it seems to imply that the HR20 would handle data guide differently depending on when it receives it. I would assume that it calls same routine to read in the data no matter when the data is received. This would imply that incomming data was wrong or corrupted in transmission.
3. Implies bad data.

After a little thought analysis, I have no idea who I think goofed up. All three of these could be the problem. However, only the last one is NOT the fault of the HR20. The probabilities might suggest that it IS the HR20's fault.

Now I even more confused....:guck:

OK, I have no reasons to blame anyone. I'm wrong...again...just ask my wife... 
Mike


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

MicroBeta said:


> You're right. I don't know that it was faulty. Maybe not the best choice of words.
> 
> A last minute change to the stop shouldn't have caused the HR20 gag.
> 
> ...


You're not necessarily wrong. You're just working in a knowledge vacuum, like the rest of us! Who knows what's really going on? :lol: /steve


----------



## georgecostanza (Jan 11, 2005)

Happened to me too, stopped at 30 minutes in. I've had 2 HR20's for about 2 weeks now, and am ready to toss them in the lake. I've had more problems in 2 weeks than I did with my HR10 in 2 years.

DirecTV, please, please go back to Tivo!!!!!


----------

