# Pioneer VSX-1120-K looks great spec wise but what 2 other speakers do I need for 7.1?



## oldschoolecw

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/P...Receivers/PioneerReceivers/ci.VSX-1120-K.Kuro

7.1-Channel 3-D Ready A/V Receiver Featuring Works with iPhone® Certification with Dedicated iPhone Control Button, Bluetooth® Capability and Marvell® Video Processing, 6 HDMI 1.4

I am planning on purchasing this unit in about 3 months time but have a few questions from you geniuses in the A/V Receiver setup.

Here is what I have purchased so far for my future Pioneer VSX-1120-K unit

Energy Take Classic 5 Speaker System
Polk Audio PSW10 Black 10-inch Powered Subwoofer

I want to utilize the 7.1 on this receiver above. What 2 speakers should I go with?

Book shelf or Floor Speakers? and use the 5 Energy Take Classic speakers for the Center channel and rear channels?

Could you please point me in the right direction for the other 2 speakers I will need for 7.1 surround sound?

Thanks
Rich


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## Cholly

Frankly, I think that the Pioneer you're looking at is kind of overkill for the Take Classics. The 920 or 1020 would handle your needs very nicely for a few hudnred dollars less. Since you have a decent sub, I'd consider a pair of Klipsch bookshelf speakers for the fronts. Use two of the Energys for the rears as you suggest. Energy speakers are made by Klipsch, so they should match nicely. At some time you might want to upgrade the center channel. The reason for this is the fact that the center channel is the dominant channel for most program material.
I have the Take 5 classics for my master bedroom. I'm using two of the regular speakers for rears, the center channel speaker for its intended use and a 50 year old pair of AR-3's for my front speakers, all in a 5.0 configuration, not needing a sub because the AR's have excellent bass characteristics. The other two Energy speakers are being put to use as stereo speakers in our living room.


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## spartanstew

Cholly said:


> Frankly, I think that the Pioneer you're looking at is kind of overkill for the Take Classics.


Agreed.

Cut your receiver budget and increase your speaker budget. Good speakers can last a lifetime. With technological changes, receivers can be swapped out every few years.


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## oldschoolecw

Cholly said:


> Frankly, I think that the Pioneer you're looking at is kind of overkill for the Take Classics. The 920 or 1020 would handle your needs very nicely for a few hudnred dollars less. Since you have a decent sub, I'd consider a pair of Klipsch bookshelf speakers for the fronts. Use two of the Energys for the rears as you suggest. Energy speakers are made by Klipsch, so they should match nicely. At some time you might want to upgrade the center channel. The reason for this is the fact that the center channel is the dominant channel for most program material.
> I have the Take 5 classics for my master bedroom. I'm using two of the regular speakers for rears, the center channel speaker for its intended use and a 50 year old pair of AR-3's for my front speakers, all in a 5.0 configuration, not needing a sub because the AR's have excellent bass characteristics. The other two Energy speakers are being put to use as stereo speakers in our living room.


Thanks for the great info, the only reason I'm looking at the Pioneer VSX-1120-K is because of the 6 HDMI 1.4 hookups which is future proofing for me. Being physically disabled and having to find someone to hook this stuff up for me, only makes me want to future proof my setup so I don't have to hire someone out any time soon after this install. My planning is this have the installer hook in all HDMI cords even if their not in use at this time so it would be easy for a neighbor to just plug the HDMI cord into new electronics unit and then into power outlet.

If you could lead me in the right direction on a receiver that has at least 5 HDMI 1.4 and a very good 1080P up conversion please do so.

Thanks again for your time
Rich


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## lugnutathome

Although I wholeheartedly agree with the better speakers concept, I like your choice of receiver as it has the THX Select2 soundfields. I'm not now nor have I ever been a proponent of Pioneer (Yamaha bigot) so I do not know if that's available in a lower pricepoint unit.

The THX sound fields have a feature they call ASA (adaptive speaker array) that creates a natural sounding 7.1 sound scape off of 5.1 (or less) input material. I've 2 receivers with this (one being the Select2 Ultra for large areas) and one without. Using the straight DD-EX "enhancement" to the rears is OK most of the time but does have some weird effects at times. The DTS-ES matrix is similar. THX has no such oddness.

I'm certain many others may have other feelings. It's a personal preference of mine YMMV.

As to speakers can you obtain 2 additional of whatever your package uses for rear speakers separately? It is usually possible and having the speakers sonically matched is really helpful.

One poster noted Klipsch and Energy are the same parent company and that they should sound the same... To my ears this is not true at least between the reference series speakers and the Energy units I auditioned (the Synergy series speakers may sound more similar). The Klipsch horns image the high frequencies transparently without a sweet spot whereas the Energy speakers had a focused area where those frequencies were best.

Also to my ear the Energy speakers had great efficiency but had a bit of a "poppy" sound to them when compared to equivalently tiered Klipsch speakers. (again this is a personal preference thing and not me preaching some gospel) YMMV.

These are different product lines using different technologies to achieve similar goals. (selling $peaker$:grin

Don "sad when Yamaha pulled the THX out of all but the Z11" Bolton



oldschoolecw said:


> Thanks for the great info, the only reason I'm looking at the Pioneer VSX-1120-K is because of the 6 HDMI 1.4 hookups which is future proofing for me. Being physically disabled and having to find someone to hook this stuff up for me, only makes me want to future proof my setup so I don't have to hire someone out any time soon after this install. My planning is this have the installer hook in all HDMI cords even if their not in use at this time so it would be easy for a neighbor to just plug the HDMI cord into new electronics unit and then into power outlet.
> 
> If you could lead me in the right direction on a receiver that has at least 5 HDMI 1.4 and a very good 1080P up conversion please do so.
> 
> Thanks again for your time
> Rich


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## oldschoolecw

lugnutathome said:


> Although I wholeheartedly agree with the better speakers concept, I like your choice of receiver as it has the THX Select2 soundfields. I'm not now nor have I ever been a proponent of Pioneer (Yamaha bigot) so I do not know if that's available in a lower pricepoint unit.
> 
> The THX sound fields have a feature they call ASA (adaptive speaker array) that creates a natural sounding 7.1 sound scape off of 5.1 (or less) input material. I've 2 receivers with this (one being the Select2 Ultra for large areas) and one without. Using the straight DD-EX "enhancement" to the rears is OK most of the time but does have some weird effects at times. The DTS-ES matrix is similar. THX has no such oddness.
> 
> I'm certain many others may have other feelings. It's a personal preference of mine YMMV.
> 
> As to speakers can you obtain 2 additional of whatever your package uses for rear speakers separately? It is usually possible and having the speakers sonically matched is really helpful.
> 
> One poster noted Klipsch and Energy are the same parent company and that they should sound the same... To my ears this is not true at least between the reference series speakers and the Energy units I auditioned (the Synergy series speakers may sound more similar). The Klipsch horns image the high frequencies transparently without a sweet spot whereas the Energy speakers had a focused area where those frequencies were best.
> 
> Also to my ear the Energy speakers had great efficiency but had a bit of a "poppy" sound to them when compared to equivalently tiered Klipsch speakers. (again this is a personal preference thing and not me preaching some gospel) YMMV.
> 
> These are different product lines using different technologies to achieve similar goals. (selling $peaker$:grin
> 
> Don "sad when Yamaha pulled the THX out of all but the Z11" Bolton


Thanks, if I went with the setup you're talking about, the THX could make a 5.1 sound like a 7.1? Very cool if I read that right and it would save on having to buy 2 more speakers


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## lugnutathome

No you would still need the extra 2 speakers. Just that unless you use DTS-ES matrix or DD-EX extension on your 5.1 source material you would have 2 "dormant" speakers in the rear of the room. (in a 7.1 configuration).

Engaging the THX soundfields enables the ASA I referred to and all speakers get sound signals from 5.1 source materials. It also adds some minor environmental shaping. The Cinema mode adds some acoustical coloration and rear wave reverberation that resembles a real theater (though not a strong enough effect to sound strange). It's Music mode really perks up live concert DVD recordings too. They give a very "live" feel to the soundstage without it sounding "manufactured".

I use the latter heavily in my workout room on my older Yamaha receiver which had been in my great room until I dropped the Z11. Needed the Z11's THX Ultra as the room size was such that using basic Select2 the coloration and delay timing waves negated the sound from the rears to where I could only hear channel specific sounds from the back 4 speakers and not the normal ambient effects resident in most 5.1/7.1 material.

Putting that room to Ultra made the ambient effects come alive. That room is 25ft wide and 43 ft deep. A normal residential family or living room will be perfectly suited for Select2.

You really need to consider if you want 5.1 or 7.1 in the long run. If 5.1 is sufficient and for MOST source material it really is. In which case if you just choose 5.1 you can go with your chosen speakers as is, find a 5.1 amp with the requisite inputs and save some coin for down the road when more features exist and prices have lowered.

In small environments the extra 2 channels are almost overkill but it is really cool when you have a true 7.1 source.

Speakers really are your best point to improve a system's sound and with today's rampant technology evolutions spending less on the receiver now so you can replace it in 4 years when they've added 3DHD audio (requires glasses for your ears:grin you can just pop out the receiver you have and swap in a new.

A whole lot of the AV receivers on the market now have at least 4 HDMI inputs and since your Satellite providers best audio is merely DD5.1 (and most TV's accept that audio format via HDMI) you can connect the sat HDMI out direct to the TV and then use optical or coax to the receiver for sound. Then you can reassign the extra HDMI port to your new Cusinart 4D memory stick 1,000 title movie archive when it becomes available:sure:

Lots of folks like the Onkyo line, inexpensive, lots of features, good sizzle and boom, very attractively priced. If you are an audio snob for music though, I'd look for Yamaha or the Pioneer line as some of the Onkyo's specs lead me to believe they may not control the speaker as precisely for more demanding material like music.

But end of the day it's really what you like, how it looks, how it sounds, how you feel about it. Enjoy the search hear how everybody loves their brand "X" because "blah" and then buy what pleases you since you are the one that has to live with it.

Don "that's what I do every 2 or so years:hurah:" Bolton



oldschoolecw said:


> Thanks, if I went with the setup you're talking about, the THX could make a 5.1 sound like a 7.1? Very cool if I read that right and it would save on having to buy 2 more speakers


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## oldschoolecw

lugnutathome said:


> No you would still need the extra 2 speakers. Just that unless you use DTS-ES matrix or DD-EX extension on your 5.1 source material you would have 2 "dormant" speakers in the rear of the room. (in a 7.1 configuration).
> 
> Engaging the THX soundfields enables the ASA I referred to and all speakers get sound signals from 5.1 source materials. It also adds some minor environmental shaping. The Cinema mode adds some acoustical coloration and rear wave reverberation that resembles a real theater (though not a strong enough effect to sound strange). It's Music mode really perks up live concert DVD recordings too. They give a very "live" feel to the soundstage without it sounding "manufactured".
> 
> I use the latter heavily in my workout room on my older Yamaha receiver which had been in my great room until I dropped the Z11. Needed the Z11's THX Ultra as the room size was such that using basic Select2 the coloration and delay timing waves negated the sound from the rears to where I could only hear channel specific sounds from the back 4 speakers and not the normal ambient effects resident in most 5.1/7.1 material.
> 
> Putting that room to Ultra made the ambient effects come alive. That room is 25ft wide and 43 ft deep. A normal residential family or living room will be perfectly suited for Select2.
> 
> You really need to consider if you want 5.1 or 7.1 in the long run. If 5.1 is sufficient and for MOST source material it really is. In which case if you just choose 5.1 you can go with your chosen speakers as is, find a 5.1 amp with the requisite inputs and save some coin for down the road when more features exist and prices have lowered.
> 
> In small environments the extra 2 channels are almost overkill but it is really cool when you have a true 7.1 source.
> 
> Speakers really are your best point to improve a system's sound and with today's rampant technology evolutions spending less on the receiver now so you can replace it in 4 years when they've added 3DHD audio (requires glasses for your ears:grin you can just pop out the receiver you have and swap in a new.
> 
> A whole lot of the AV receivers on the market now have at least 4 HDMI inputs and since your Satellite providers best audio is merely DD5.1 (and most TV's accept that audio format via HDMI) you can connect the sat HDMI out direct to the TV and then use optical or coax to the receiver for sound. Then you can reassign the extra HDMI port to your new Cusinart 4D memory stick 1,000 title movie archive when it becomes available:sure:
> 
> Lots of folks like the Onkyo line, inexpensive, lots of features, good sizzle and boom, very attractively priced. If you are an audio snob for music though, I'd look for Yamaha or the Pioneer line as some of the Onkyo's specs lead me to believe they may not control the speaker as precisely for more demanding material like music.
> 
> But end of the day it's really what you like, how it looks, how it sounds, how you feel about it. Enjoy the search hear how everybody loves their brand "X" because "blah" and then buy what pleases you since you are the one that has to live with it.
> 
> Don "that's what I do every 2 or so years:hurah:" Bolton


Thanks for the great read and help on this
Rich


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## spartanstew

lugnutathome said:


> The THX sound fields have a feature they call ASA (adaptive speaker array) that creates a natural sounding 7.1 sound scape off of 5.1 (or less) input material.


DDPLIIx has been doing this for many years and works just as well. Just about any receiver sold today has PLIIx.


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## lugnutathome

spartanstew said:


> DDPLIIx has been doing this for many years and works just as well. Just about any receiver sold today has PLIIx.


He's is correct.

PLIIX is extended "Pro Logic" (what the old VCRs used updated with full range rear channel frequency response) It is a great natural sounding extension for cinematic 2 channel source materials. On older receivers you could apply an extended surround to the extra 2 rears by engaging PLIIX, newer equipment moved to EX/EX for that extended surround.

At least Yamaha did this between 2005 and 2008. My old RX-V2500 had THX Select (not 2, no ASA in this version) and its extended surround (when selected) was to apply a PLIIX codec to the surrounds to get a "7.1" soundfield.

My current RX-V3800 has no THX and it's extended surround is either DD-EX (which is always a matrix decoding EX flag or not) or DTS-ES matrix which annoyingly has to be switched OFF when true DTS-ES source material is played or the matrix form is used.

I've never considered the extended surround on my RX-V2600 or RX-Z11 since the THX Select2/Select2 Ultra handles this for me.

The THX Select2 soundfields apply atop any decoder sources. And a great way to have the extra 2 speakers engaged full time since most DVDs are produced in the 5.1 output formats. The indicator reads SELECT2 when processing 5.1 material and just SELECT when processing 7.1 material.

PL takes the equal outputs from Left and right front and diverts it to the center while muting those same sounds at the L&R speakers along with passing unique directional sounds L & R properly. It takes an out of phase audio track and plays it back on the rears. Single channel. Rear channel frequency response is almost 1/2 of the spectrum.

PLII adds full frequency response to the rears and (I think) adds separate R & L channels rear.

PLIIX "extends" the rear channel output from 2 speakers out to 4

THX and PL are two completely different beasts and most don't think the extra costs for THX are warranted. I prefer it's sound coloration to straight DD/DTS/or PLII{x}. And as I've stated YMMV its really a matter pf personal preference.

Don "so many toys" Bolton


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## oldschoolecw

I ordered it, the Pioneer VSX-1120-K from Amazon at a great price of $475.23


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## spartanstew

oldschoolecw said:


> I ordered it, the Pioneer VSX-1120-K from Amazon at a great price of $475.23


Pretty good. It was $425 at Amazon up until about a week ago (they had a $50 instant rebate coupon). I was able to snag my VSX-1020 from Amazon for $330 about 1 month ago and am really enjoying it. The 1120 didn't seem worth the extra $100 at the time.


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## oldschoolecw

spartanstew said:


> Pretty good. It was $425 at Amazon up until about a week ago (they had a $50 instant rebate coupon). I was able to snag my VSX-1020 from Amazon for $330 about 1 month ago and am really enjoying it. The 1120 didn't seem worth the extra $100 at the time.


The reason I got the Pioneer VSX-1120-K instead of the Pioneer VSX-1020-K was reading about how the Marvell 1080p Video Upscaling is the best in the business and that sold me on this unit.


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## spartanstew

Yep, it's got a better processor, but since the 1019 had the same processor as the 1020 and continued to get Best In Class Reviews by most major publications last year (and passed all tests), I don't think any differences will be visible on much more than test patterns (if that). On real world video, the differences in processing shouldn't be apparent between those two, especially on a small display, and since this receiver was just for the living room and a 65" display, I didn't feel the need.

If I would have needed something for the theater, I might have considered it, but I've already got a good receiver in there.


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## oldschoolecw

spartanstew said:


> Yep, it's got a better processor, but since the 1019 had the same processor as the 1020 and continued to get Best In Class Reviews by most major publications last year (and passed all tests), I don't think any differences will be visible on much more than test patterns (if that). On real world video, the differences in processing shouldn't be apparent between those two, especially on a small display, and since this receiver was just for the living room and a 65" display, I didn't feel the need.
> 
> If I would have needed something for the theater, I might have considered it, but I've already got a good receiver in there.


Yeah this will be my number 1 receiver, so I splurged


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