# UHD (4K)



## georgewells

Anything I should know as to how my new 4K UHD will perform on my dish account ?? -- I assume everything will works as it does now with my present TV

Thanks -- George


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## harsh

No different from any other modern TV.

DISH doesn't currently offer UHD content.


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## BillJ

I believe I read that Dish has plans for UHD in the next year or two but no details. Probably will begin with on-demand movies. Comcast and others are talking about rolling out UHD so Dish will have to do it to stay competitive. I bought a UHD TV earlier this year and it works fine with Dish or any other program source.


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## James Long

DISH's plan is to release a 4K Joey to work with the Hopper system. If all goes well they will at least have a path to get 4K to a TV. If DISH follows what they have done for 1080p and 3D, they will start with VOD and see how the market moves. Currently DISH offers 1080p and 3D through VOD (predownloaded via satellite or requested via the Internet).


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## georgewells

Thanks for all the replies and info -- George


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## harsh

BillJ said:


> I believe I read that Dish has plans for UHD in the next year or two but no details.


While they haven't spoken to the content issue, they've been more forthcoming with the hardware:

http://www.dish.com/technology/4k-joey/


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## Wilf

I suspect that Dish and others will wait until the new UHD standards are in place. Scott Wilkinson of AVS forums has high praise for the high dynamic range and improved color gamut that the standards will bring - more so than the increased number of pixels.


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## georgewells

Harsh - I read your reply about the 4K Joey - Are they doing anything about the Hopper/Sling since that is what my 4K TV will use not the Joey ?
Thanks


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## harsh

georgewells said:


> Harsh - I read your reply about the 4K Joey - Are they doing anything about the Hopper/Sling since that is what my 4K TV will use not the Joey ?


There doesn't seem to be any indication at this time. The heads up usually comes in the form of a new FCC device ID.


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## Jhon69

The new 4K UHDTV's also upconverts all signals to 4K.


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## harsh

Jhon69 said:


> The new 4K UHDTV's also upconverts all signals to 4K.


That's not really a fair assessment. They UHD TVs render the incoming image to a 4K display but they certainly don't make it look like a UHD source.


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## patmurphey

harsh said:


> That's not really a fair assessment. They UHD TVs render the incoming image to a 4K display but they certainly don't make it look like a UHD source.


Not the same as native 4k, but the picture is upconverted with smoothing and interpolation algorithms creating a better viewing experience with Dish's 1080i output.


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## P Smith

patmurphey said:


> Not the same as native 4k, but the picture is upconverted with smoothing and interpolation algorithms creating a better viewing experience with Dish's 1080i output.


do you believe in AI of the "smoothing and interpolation" in TV's FW? Or stay on realistic opininion - the robot cannot make better every very different kind of pictures, talking heads perhaps... imagine a picture of tropical forest with many tiny items, panning and a lot of flying colorful birds, at ground level - a cople dosen chimpanzee jumping on braches...or a blast of high rise in a thriller with thousands pieces crossing sky... you should know variety of pictures... it's impossible create SW algos to process HD to 4k as you wish.


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## inkahauts

harsh said:


> That's not really a fair assessment. They UHD TVs render the incoming image to a 4K display but they certainly don't make it look like a UHD source.


Did you forget what up converting means?


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## Stewart Vernon

Up-converting might be fancily-named and have a lot of coding behind it... but at the end of the day, it's a computer attempting to "guess" based on an algorithm what pixels might be there IF that was the native resolution. Up-converting can't find info that isn't there.

Up-converting really exists to be something a tad smarter than just using pixel-doubling to fill the higher-resolution screen and in lieu of displaying native resolution and using half the screen... which would be the other alternatives.

I am actually with P Smith on this one. Up-converting is a necessary "evil" of sorts so that lower resolutions can be viewed on a higher-resolution screen but it doesn't add any meaningful resolution, because it can't.


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## harsh

inkahauts said:


> Did you forget what up converting means?


Not at all, but I would argue that upconverting is only part of what happens.

We know what simple upconverting looks like with low resolution SD converted to HD and how its quality can vary widely from one model TV (or STB) to the next. Some TVs do little more than pixel doubling while others put a great deal of effort into full-on image processing with motion compensation and edge detection. Unfortunately that assumes that the TV is doing all of the conversion. If an STB is involved, a good portion of the cues used may be destroyed before the TV gets to employ them.


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## Jhon69

Jhon69 said:


> The new 4K UHDTV's also upconverts all signals to 4K.


Let me correct my statement.I recommend checking the Best Buy website concerning 4K UHDTVs,they have stated they will only sell 4K UHDTVs that have an upconverting ability that they require/approve otherwise Best Buy will not sell them.


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## inkahauts

That's hilarious. And total bs if that's what they say. Do you have a link? The reality is all these displays are fixed pixel displays anymore. Which means all signals have to be converted and scaled to 4k on a 4k TV. It's not something they can just not do.


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## BillJ

When I was researching my 4K purchase in December I asked several manufacturers about upconverting. All stated that they do not necessarily upconvert to 4K but do improve picture quality as much as possible. IOW, you might go from 480p or 720p to 1080p quality but don't expect 4K quality. Also, some only upconverted from the HDMI inputs.


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## Jhon69

inkahauts said:


> That's hilarious. And total bs if that's what they say. Do you have a link? The reality is all these displays are fixed pixel displays anymore. Which means all signals have to be converted and scaled to 4k on a 4k TV. It's not something they can just not do.


Sure:http://www.bestbuy.com/site/home-solutions/4k-tv-resource-page/pcmcat300700050011.c?id=pcmcat300700050011


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## inkahauts

Pure bs. Sure not all are created equal but all scale. They physically have to or a source or 1080 would only cover half the screen. 

Advanced scaling where it guesses better colors and such many don't but just scaling to fit the screen they all do. It's not an option. 

That's as false an advertising as I have EVER seen!


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## inkahauts

BillJ said:


> When I was researching my 4K purchase in December I asked several manufacturers about upconverting. All stated that they do not necessarily upconvert to 4K but do improve picture quality as much as possible. IOW, you might go from 480p or 720p to 1080p quality but don't expect 4K quality. Also, some only upconverted from the HDMI inputs.


You can't make a 1080 signal a 4k signal picture quality.


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## Jhon69

inkahauts said:


> Pure bs. Sure not all are created equal but all scale. They physically have to or a source or 1080 would only cover half the screen.
> 
> Advanced scaling where it guesses better colors and such many don't but just scaling to fit the screen they all do. It's not an option.
> 
> That's as false an advertising as I have EVER seen!


Here's another link to the 4K UHDTV I bought from Best Buy,this link is from the manufacturer: http://www.vizio.com/tvs/mseries/m55c2.html


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## Stewart Vernon

As already said... pure marketing spin and borderline lies... you can't create resolution from nothing. Some upscaling is better than others... but it's all "guesswork" by the computer really. You can't take 1080p and make a 2160p resolution picture that has the same level of detail as a native 2160p picture would have. You just can't.

The simplest form of upscaling, as noted, is simply doubling the pixels to fill the larger screen. At a minimum ALL 4K/UHD TVs would have to do this because if not, they would be displaying 1080p images in only a quarter of the screen! So some chipsets have some "smarter" than just doubling the pixels to attempt to guess... and the upscaling might look better to some than the same 1080p source on an HDTV... but bottom line, it's nowhere close to 4K/UHD after the upscaling.

We went through all this with Blu-ray players that upscaled DVD content... or HD receivers that upscale SD channels... there is no magic way to make more detail where there is none.


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## Jhon69

Stewart Vernon said:


> As already said... pure marketing spin and borderline lies... you can't create resolution from nothing. Some upscaling is better than others... but it's all "guesswork" by the computer really. You can't take 1080p and make a 2160p resolution picture that has the same level of detail as a native 2160p picture would have. You just can't.
> 
> The simplest form of upscaling, as noted, is simply doubling the pixels to fill the larger screen. At a minimum ALL 4K/UHD TVs would have to do this because if not, they would be displaying 1080p images in only a quarter of the screen! So some chipsets have some "smarter" than just doubling the pixels to attempt to guess... and the upscaling might look better to some than the same 1080p source on an HDTV... but bottom line, it's nowhere close to 4K/UHD after the upscaling.
> 
> We went through all this with Blu-ray players that upscaled DVD content... or HD receivers that upscale SD channels... there is no magic way to make more detail where there is none.


I believe that all of you are correct that what I see is not True 4K UHD,but on the other side I know that where I live I will never have enough internet speed to stream 4K UHD anyways,I also know that Dish will probably never have their regular channels in 1080p simply because of bandwith restrictions not to mention what the cost would be for Dish to try and bring down True 4K UHD from their satellites since that would be(I'm guessing here) twice the bandwith of a 1080p signal.
So for me it's fake 4K UHD?I can live with that setup mainly because I have all my signals OTA&Satellite coming in my Dish receiver and being fake upconverted to 1080i,then running them through HDMI to my HDMI input into my fake 4K Vizio M55-C2 UHDTV upconversion.
In all honesty what ever they did to make this fake 4K UHD upconversion,it actually is an awesome picture to watch and after watching 1080i and 1080p for 4 years,this is a better picture even if it's a fake 4K UHD.


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## harsh

BillJ said:


> Also, some only upconverted from the HDMI inputs.


There are things that you just can't ask of people who are selling something because they're not going to give you the whole story. They are always going to pick their own lowest bar and tell you that there are products from other vendors that don't reach that bar.

With many televisions, unless you set the TV for computer mode, they employ underscan and that requires thoughtful scaling at any resolution. Even if you have a 1080p panel, you're only seeing around 90% of the image so pixel doubling is not enough. I found this out the hard way recently when someone at work decided it would be okay to plug the computer into a port other than the one marked "PC" and I couldn't see the edges of the desktop. Fortunately, the TV had a mode that turned off underscan on the other ports and I was able to set it for 1:1.

Purists may go on and on about the glories of 1:1 and OAR, but many TVs aren't set up for it.


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## P Smith

usually overscan mode is responsible for cut these dots (it's a time counter/date) in first few lines of TV picture


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## harsh

P Smith said:


> usually overscan mode is responsible for cut these dots (it's a time counter/date) in first few lines of TV picture


Nonetheless, it requires zooming in a little bit and that scaling moves you away from a pixel-for-pixel match-up. For example maybe your 1920x1080 pixel matrix is displaying a 1900x1068.75 center cut of the image.


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## P Smith

Or just masking first five lines...


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## Jhon69

So in this discussion of True 4K or Fake 4K,True 1080 or not,what is your professional opinion concerning the ability of the 4K Joey? True 4K or Fake 4K?.


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## James Long

Jhon69 said:


> So in this discussion of True 4K or Fake 4K,True 1080 or not,what is your professional opinion concerning the ability of the 4K Joey? True 4K or Fake 4K?.


Quod erat demonstrandum ... and probably a lot of opinion on what "true 4K" is. You are asking for an evaluation on a product that has not been released.

I have no doubt that the output of the 4K Joey will meet the 4K specs ... just like the output of current receivers meet the HD specs. But it will be a matter of opinion and argument whether the content has lost it's "4K-ness" in transmission. Regardless of the receiver or transmission system used.


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## harsh

James Long said:


> Quod erat demonstrandum ... and probably a lot of opinion on what "true 4K" is.


Perhaps most important to understand is that what UHD is isn't fully agreed upon by those who set the standards. We know what the Blu-ray format is capable of and what a few display devices can do in terms of gamut of but beyond that, some aspects of what UHD will be are still up in the air.

Combine that with the understanding that nobody outside of those who have signed a non-disclosure agreement has access to the specifications or has used the device in question and it would be very dangerous to develop, much less share, a "professional" opinion.


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## Rogernet

New Question for the UHD Dish Network experts July 5, 2015:

I am planning to buy the next 4K gen Sony Bravia XBR-55X900C when it ships out to
all retailers and Amazon on July 10th. It does support HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2 and passive
3D. I currently have an ancient Dish Vip612 receiver which has supported my Sony Bravia 1080p KDL52W41
well for the past 7 years. It still works well today for my single HDMI 1080 HDTV and another 40" Bravia via RGB
component cable.

1. Will the Vip612 support my new 4K Sony Bravia at least temporarily until I upgrade? What, if any limitations
will I have with this old receiver?

2. What is the recommended Dish Upgrade receiver for single room 4K UHDs? What about the new 4K Joey?
The Hopper is overkill and too expensive for my needs, but I do want a good receiver for my new UHD.

Thanks for any recommendations......


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## P Smith

It could support,but everything in hand,umm,FW codes..if your new TV set will respond with compatible to 1080i EDID to the 612,then you'll use it as 1080 TV (with its internal upscaling algos).
New Joey is not here yet to answer you.


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## Grandude

2. What is the recommended Dish Upgrade receiver for single room 4K UHDs? What about the new 4K Joey?
The Hopper is overkill and too expensive for my needs, but I do want a good receiver for my new UHD.

*You do know that any Joey will not work without a Hopper!*


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## harsh

Let us be clear. There is currently no UHD solution available and the specifications are largely unknown other than it will almost surely require some manner of client-server (Hopper/Genie/X1) system.

We won't know until late this year (at the earliest) what the UHD hardware possibilities are and which TVs will fully support them.

DISH has not announced plans on UHD content offerings.

For now, those with UHD TVs must stream or download their UHD content and there is precious little available.

I think it is likely that it will stay that way for at least 18 months.

One can reason that the hardware challenge is done (and they would be wrong) or that the providers will have to make something happen but the fact remains that UHD content is a pretty big unknown.

Since the current crop of UHD TVs will probably slog through their life showing mostly HD content, upscaling and image enhancement will continue to be the things to look for.


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## Rogernet

P Smith said:


> It could support,but everything in hand,umm,FW codes..if your new TV set will respond with compatible to 1080i EDID to the 612,then you'll use it as 1080 TV (with its internal upscaling algos).
> New Joey is not here yet to answer you.


Thanks for your comments....understand them except for the reference to FW codes. Currently have res 1080i and 1080p @ 120 mhertz on my 2008 HDTV. I can use the upscaling now.... and wait for my 2015-6 UHD features. Probably will never get the Hopper/Joey...but we'll see.


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## Rogernet

Grandude said:


> 2. What is the recommended Dish Upgrade receiver for single room 4K UHDs? What about the new 4K Joey?
> The Hopper is overkill and too expensive for my needs, but I do want a good receiver for my new UHD.
> 
> *You do know that any Joey will not work without a Hopper!*


Yep....Not currently interested in the Hopper or dependent Joey in pouch or out. Still haven't seen
any DISH recommendation for UHD receivers....so assume all current receivers will support UHD in upscale
mode.


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## James Long

The current DISH receivers (VIP or Hopper/Joey) will output standard HDTV. 720p or 1080i with 1080p PPV available. It is up to your TV to display that picture in as many pixels as the TV has available.


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## harsh

Rogernet said:


> Still haven't seen any DISH recommendation for UHD receivers....so assume all current receivers will support UHD in upscale
> mode.


DISH hasn't confirmed that they have any intention of offering a standalone UHD receiver so there isn't one to be recommended, much less preferred.

As far as I know, no carrier has announced a standalone UHD receiver for live UHD programming. TiVo was bragging a UHD Roamio up last summer but has been eerily silent about it since. Comcast has been going on about their Xi4 and Xi5 but both appear to be UHD streamers.


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## Jhon69

Rogernet said:


> New Question for the UHD Dish Network experts July 5, 2015:
> 
> I am planning to buy the next 4K gen Sony Bravia XBR-55X900C when it ships out to
> all retailers and Amazon on July 10th. It does support HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2 and passive
> 3D. I currently have an ancient Dish Vip612 receiver which has supported my Sony Bravia 1080p KDL52W41
> well for the past 7 years. It still works well today for my single HDMI 1080 HDTV and another 40" Bravia via RGB
> component cable.
> 
> 1. Will the Vip612 support my new 4K Sony Bravia at least temporarily until I upgrade? What, if any limitations
> will I have with this old receiver?
> 
> 2. What is the recommended Dish Upgrade receiver for single room 4K UHDs? What about the new 4K Joey?
> The Hopper is overkill and too expensive for my needs, but I do want a good receiver for my new UHD.
> 
> Thanks for any recommendations......


That was a concern to me also,everything will work OK,depending on what you will use your 4K UHDTV for most, you may want to checkout the 4K UHDTV reviews at www.rtings.com 
The new 4K UHDTVs are a new technology that should surprise and astound you with the upconverted picture you will see,I know it did me as my Vizio 4K UHDTV upconverts everything.
Good Luck!


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## BillJ

Dish service tech told me last week the Hopper will support 4K assuming the cabling is adequate. Since my Hopper and cable were installed in February I shouldn't have a problem. It's only the Joeys that currently won't handle 4K.


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## harsh

BillJ said:


> Dish service tech told me last week the Hopper will support 4K assuming the cabling is adequate.


Service techs aren't typically a reliable resource for engineering information.

Neither Hopper is capable of UHD as both employ a BCM742x series SoC that does NOT include UHD in its feature set.


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## DBordello

Any word on the 4k Joey? Plenty of us have internet connections that could handle 4k.


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## P Smith

The word is SOON!


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## harsh

DBordello said:


> Any word on the 4k Joey? Plenty of us have internet connections that could handle 4k.


No recent word. If there were news of importance, you'd surely see it on the front page of DBSTalk.

Capable hardware doesn't necessarily bring compelling content as 3D (and more recently UHD) has taught us.


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## jbach

Jhon69 said:


> I believe that all of you are correct that what I see is not True 4K UHD,but on the other side I know that where I live I will never have enough internet speed to stream 4K UHD anyways,I also know that Dish will probably never have their regular channels in 1080p simply because of bandwith restrictions not to mention what the cost would be for Dish to try and bring down True 4K UHD from their satellites since that would be(I'm guessing here) twice the bandwith of a 1080p signal.
> So for me it's fake 4K UHD?I can live with that setup mainly because I have all my signals OTA&Satellite coming in my Dish receiver and being fake upconverted to 1080i,then running them through HDMI to my HDMI input into my fake 4K Vizio M55-C2 UHDTV upconversion.
> In all honesty what ever they did to make this fake 4K UHD upconversion,it actually is an awesome picture to watch and after watching 1080i and 1080p for 4 years,this is a better picture even if it's a fake 4K UHD.


This is the most important piece of info in this thread to me. I don't care how or why upconverting cannot make 4K resolution - we all know that. I only want to know whether the picture from Dish on a 2015 UHD is as good or better than it was on an HD set. As we know from some SD channels, it might have smeared things and made it worse.... But perception (as in seeing it) is everything here. It looks like Jhon69 finds that it is better, at least with the Vizio unit he has. And thanks for that insight.

I'd be interested in other Dish users experience with UHD TVs.


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## P Smith

I wouldn't make full stop at dish sources and would make broad look - DTV already transmitting UHD PPV movie, soon to be UHD demo channel, then perhaps major sport producers will start streaming in UHD some events ... take a look on other side, don't miss your good opportunity to get real UHD content today to soak in your personal perception with your new UHD TV set


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## Jhon69

jbach said:


> This is the most important piece of info in this thread to me. I don't care how or why upconverting cannot make 4K resolution - we all know that. I only want to know whether the picture from Dish on a 2015 UHD is as good or better than it was on an HD set. As we know from some SD channels, it might have smeared things and made it worse.... But perception (as in seeing it) is everything here. It looks like Jhon69 finds that it is better, at least with the Vizio unit he has. And thanks for that insight.
> 
> I'd be interested in other Dish users experience with UHD TVs.


I thought I would add to my comment about 4K UHDTVs.If you have the budget and want the best it would be the LG 4K OLED UHDTV.The better 4K UHDTVs(and more expensive) support 3D,HDR and WCG on their 4K UHDTVs,my budget Vizio 4K UHDTV does not,but Vizio is coming out with an "R" series which will support all those features in the future and may also be coming out with a revised "P" series 4K UHDTV.
The best picture I have seen on my 4K UHDTV is with my Bluray player with a Bluray DVD,I never thought the picture could be even clearer,but it is when it's coming from a 1080p Bluray DVD that is upconverted to 4K UHD,that I believe is a true 4K picture.
I cannot comment on what a regular digital picture looks like through my 4K UHDTV because I do not have it connected with coax in the back where you would normally connect an antenna connection,my OTA runs through my Dish receiver.


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## P Smith

> that is upconverted to 4K UHD,that I beleve is a true 4K picture


yeah, we should belive in it first


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## Jhon69

P Smith said:


> yeah, we should belive in it first


Thank You for bringing my errors to my attention, I need to double check it more often.


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## P Smith

Jhon69 said:


> Thank You for bringing my errors to my attention, I need to double check it more often.


Nay, the grammar is not the point (as I'm doimg more mistakes in it) - the meaning of the word, mind settling, etc - that's the key


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## Jhon69

jbach said:


> This is the most important piece of info in this thread to me. I don't care how or why upconverting cannot make 4K resolution - we all know that. I only want to know whether the picture from Dish on a 2015 UHD is as good or better than it was on an HD set. As we know from some SD channels, it might have smeared things and made it worse.... But perception (as in seeing it) is everything here. It looks like Jhon69 finds that it is better, at least with the Vizio unit he has. And thanks for that insight.
> 
> I'd be interested in other Dish users experience with UHD TVs.
> 
> This is an excellent post and hopefully other 4K UHDTV owners will post their experience with their new 4K UHDTVs.


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## Jhon69

Had a unexpected surprise the other night,I changed my resolution on my Dish receiver from 1080i to 720p and it seemed to me that the colors on my 4K UHDTV picture came alive.

Dish receiver's do not have a native pass through which I like.I would guess maybe because I went to a progressive resolution picture that it might have been easier to upconvert the picture.

Anyways thought I would report this interesting result from just a change in picture resolution.


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## Jhon69

Jhon69 said:


> Had a unexpected surprise the other night,I changed my resolution on my Dish receiver from 1080i to 720p and it seemed to me that the colors on my 4K UHDTV picture came alive.
> 
> Dish receiver's do not have a native pass through which I like.I would guess maybe because I went to a progressive resolution picture that it might have been easier to upconvert the picture.
> 
> Anyways thought I would report this interesting result from just a change in picture resolution.
> 
> Another observation I need to report,when I had a 1080p HDTV and changed my resolution setting from 1080i to 720p on my Dish receiver,the colors would improve,but the picture would lose some clarity.
> 
> With a 4K UHDTV and I change my resolution setting on my Dish receiver from 1080i to 720p the colors are deeper and the clarity it still good thanks to the 4K spatial scaling engine built into the 4K UHDTV that upconverts the picture.


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## Jhon69

Because I can only get AT&T Elite DSL which is 6Mbps down,the only way that I can see 4K on my Vizio 4K UHDTV is to use a 4K Demo program on a USB thumb drive that my son(who is more knowledgeable on computers than I am) set up for me that is plugged into one of my USB inputs for Media on my TV.

Best Buy has a Sony 4K upconverting Blu ray player on sale for $99. so I bought one and I must say that it is indeed impressive,now I am able to watch my 1080p Bluray movies in 2160p.

When I press the TV remote's info button it confirms that the picture is being displayed is 2160p,so for those who cannot stream programs in 4K this option so far is working very good for me.


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## Wilf

Jhon69 said:


> When I press the TV remote's info button it confirms that the picture is being displayed is 2160p,so for those who cannot stream programs in 4K this option so far is working very good for me.


How much difference can there be between 2 and 4 K if you have to push a button to confirm which you are watching? :rotfl:


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## Jhon69

Wilf said:


> How much difference can there be between 2 and 4 K if you have to push a button to confirm which you are watching? :rotfl:


I like to verify my screen resolution,how do you verify your screen resolution on your 4K UHDTV?


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## Wilf

Jhon69 said:


> I like to verify my screen resolution,how do you verify your screen resolution on your 4K UHDTV?


Wife and I watch streaming video on his and her's iPads. For us, content is king - no interest in a UHDTV - plus wife would not allow a TV big enough for 4K to make a difference.


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## mikeyinokc

Wilf said:


> Wife and I watch streaming video on his and her's iPads. For us, content is king - no interest in a UHDTV - plus wife would not allow a TV big enough for 4K to make a difference.


Maybe it's time for a new wife then....


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## WestDC

So, Should that happen He would lose his ipad as well as a 50% of every thing else


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## jclangston

I know Directv is going to broadcast The Masters in 4K. Has there been any talk of any Dish 4K channels? I have had Direct for several year but I like the idea of the Hopper 3 and dish equipment.


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## P Smith

nope
soon to be
soon to be​


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## tcatdbs

Jhon69 said:


> That was a concern to me also,everything will work OK,depending on what you will use your 4K UHDTV for most, you may want to checkout the 4K UHDTV reviews at www.rtings.com
> The new 4K UHDTVs are a new technology that should surprise and astound you with the upconverted picture you will see,I know it did me as my Vizio 4K UHDTV upconverts everything.
> Good Luck!


You say "upconverts everything" how do Dish primetime shows look? Thinking of getting the Vizio p65. Will need to upgrade my old Hopper too (or will I if the TV upconverts everything?) Curious what 1080 Dish primetime looks like on a 4k set.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## Jhon69

tcatdbs said:


> You say "upconverts everything" how do Dish primetime shows look? Thinking of getting the Vizio p65. Will need to upgrade my old Hopper too (or will I if the TV upconverts everything?) Curious what 1080 Dish primetime looks like on a 4k set.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


I have the 2015 M55-C2 Vizio 4K UHDTV and it upconverts very good the 1080i from my Dish receiver.

The best upconversion is when my TV upconverts a 1080p Bluray movie and now my setup is even better because I purchased a Sony 4K upconverting Bluray player.

The new Hopper 3 would give you 4K streaming capability plus a few more tuners to use.

If/When Dish adds any 4K channels you would be ready with the Hopper 3.


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## bmcleod

I realize this thread has been around for a while, but one thing that hasn't really been mentioned is that one of the reasons UHD TVs look so good with HD content, is because the base technologies of the display are in most cases drastically better than the sets they are replacing. Local dimming, more zones, higher contrast, higher refresh rates, better blacks, and all the other manufacturer specific blah, blah, blah that really does make for a better picture regardless of the resolution. Sure the upscaling on some is better than others (like all the other technology), but I'd bet these other qualities have at least as much to do with the better looking picture than the higher resolution and upscaling does. 

I had planned to buy a UHD by now, but my 73" DLP is still looking pretty good, and I want to rebuild my entertainment center so I'll probably wait another year and see what the next CES brings to market. Maybe by then there will be more content, more HDR compliance, more OLED, bigger screens, and more of the blah, blah, blah at lower prices. Buy it if you need it, but I'm happy to wait a while longer. Hopefully Dish will have some solid UHD offerings, and Oppo's 4K model will be out by then as well.


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## DanoP

bmcleod said:


> I realize this thread has been around for a while, but one thing that hasn't really been mentioned is that one of the reasons UHD TVs look so good with HD content, is because the base technologies of the display are in most cases drastically better than the sets they are replacing. Local dimming, more zones, higher contrast, higher refresh rates, better blacks, and all the other manufacturer specific blah, blah, blah that really does make for a better picture regardless of the resolution. Sure the upscaling on some is better than others (like all the other technology), but I'd bet these other qualities have at least as much to do with the better looking picture than the higher resolution and upscaling does.
> 
> I had planned to buy a UHD by now, but my 73" DLP is still looking pretty good, and I want to rebuild my entertainment center so I'll probably wait another year and see what the next CES brings to market. Maybe by then there will be more content, more HDR compliance, more OLED, bigger screens, and more of the blah, blah, blah at lower prices. Buy it if you need it, but I'm happy to wait a while longer. Hopefully Dish will have some solid UHD offerings, and Oppo's 4K model will be out by then as well.


The only reason I'm considering a 4k now is because I have a 10 year old 50" panny plasma that tops out at 1080i which means that my xbox connects at 720p. I kind of would like a larger (65") TV. However, 4k content is still very sparse and I find it difficult to believe that there will be much content in the near future considering the bandwidth required to transmit 4k images. And unless you get OLED you're going to struggle with good blacks and in the case of edge lit displays (like the Sony 930Ds) splotchy clouding/uneven lighting. And still, OLEDs aren't great with motion which doesn't seem acceptable given the price. So, we have a still emerging, flawed technology (much more flawed than our old, defunct plasmas) with little content. Not a pretty picture at the moment.


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## chriscpmtmp

I jumped in 2 months ago. There is way more 4k content than during the rollout of HD. The Olympics 4k channel is the best I've seen. The NFL is always the ultimate for me. Hopefully that will be ready for the next SB.


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## bmcleod

So I see I last commented here two years ago, and still I have no UHD TV ... but I have one on order which should arrive in the next couple weeks. I think for now 4K Blu-ray will be my only source, my Internet speed is just enough to stream HD and nothing faster is available.

Are there any UHD offerings on Dish or DirectTV, that don’t depend on your Internet, that is they come all or mostly from Satellite? I’ve had Dish a long time but don’t mind changing.

Edit: Is there a better thread for UHD discussion on either service?


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## P Smith

dish have one ch 540, DTV use three ch 104/105/106 - it's your choice


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## bmcleod

P Smith said:


> dish have one ch 540, DTV use three ch 104/105/106 - it's your choice


Thanks for the info! I even called Dish a month or so ago and asked about UHD, they said there wasn't anything. I'll give 540 a look when the set arrives.


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## bmcleod

Ok, follow up question...does watching Netflix via Dish use your Internet connection, is there a way not to?


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## Jim5506

bmcleod said:


> Ok, follow up question...does watching Netflix via Dish use your Internet connection, is there a way not to?


Yes, it does.

Not unless you can get your neighbor to let you use his.


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## bmcleod

Jim5506 said:


> Yes, it does.
> 
> Not unless you can get your neighbor to let you use his.


Since I'm his tech support that is a possibility, but his connection is slower than mine so that wouldn't help.

The gist of my questions is that in my part of rural America we can barely stream HD, and no chance of UHD. No cable either, hence Dish. I'm looking for any way I can use my Dish pipe for more (and better) content. Since Dish has the bandwidth for HD, it would be nice if they'd allow Netflix to use that pipe, but maybe that would require a change to the Netflix App architecture. Thanks for the info.


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## James Long

Satellite is good for broadcast ... one to many simultaneously. Separate streams for each subscriber eats bandwidth. Separate streams can work on a satellite internet provider that uses spot beams so they are not wasting national satellite bandwidth serving just one customer. The DBS platform works best when they are sending the same signals to 13+ million subscribers ... not unique signals to each subscriber.


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## P Smith

dish should rent SW-1/SW-2 for sat two-way Internet connections


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## bmcleod

James Long said:


> Satellite is good for broadcast ... one to many simultaneously. Separate streams for each subscriber eats bandwidth. Separate streams can work on a satellite internet provider that uses spot beams so they are not wasting national satellite bandwidth serving just one customer. The DBS platform works best when they are sending the same signals to 13+ million subscribers ... not unique signals to each subscriber.


That makes total sense, I hadn't thought it through.



P Smith said:


> dish should rent SW-1/SW-2 for sat two-way Internet connections


When I first moved here about 15 years ago I used Starband for Internet access (work payed for it). It was a whopping 1Mbps download which was decent at the time (T1's we're still considered fast), but the high latency and about 100Kbps upload was hard to work with (still, better than dial-up). I know the satellite services like Hughes are faster now, but I don't think they get much better than the 6 to 10 Mbps (2-3 up) I get from a rural wireless ISP.

What kind of speed could dish deliver?


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## jimmie57

bmcleod said:


> That makes total sense, I hadn't thought it through.
> 
> When I first moved here about 15 years ago I used Starband for Internet access (work payed for it). It was a whopping 1Mbps download which was decent at the time (T1's we're still considered fast), but the high latency and about 100Kbps upload was hard to work with (still, better than dial-up). I know the satellite services like Hughes are faster now, but I don't think they get much better than the 6 to 10 Mbps (2-3 up) I get from a rural wireless ISP.
> 
> What kind of speed could dish deliver?


TOP 3 DISH Internet Plans - Bundle with Dish TV | DishPromotions.com


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## bmcleod

jimmie57 said:


> TOP 3 DISH Internet Plans - Bundle with Dish TV | DishPromotions.com


Interesting, they say "plans up to 25 Mbps", then elsewhere "Browse the web at speeds as fast as 500Mbps", I didn't know they could do 25. HughesNet's best plan gives 25 Mbps up to 50 GB for $99 (before they throttle) - using 7GB/Hour for UHD, you could stream about 7 hours or 420 minutes of UHD per month - so maybe four average movies, or three sci-fi/adventure types that tend to run longer. Add the cost of the movie and you're looking at $30-$40 per shot (if all my numbers are right ... and I just woke up). Pricey, but I asked.

So, has anyone streamed a UHD movie via satellite?


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## mfmathis

I went to the link mentioned above and it states that Dishnet Internet Service is no longer available. 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## jimmie57

mfmathis said:


> I went to the link mentioned above and it states that Dishnet Internet Service is no longer available.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


From the link:
Not any longer but we can pair your DISH TV with many different DSL, cable, fiber internet options *or satellite internet through HughesNET*, DISH's sister company.


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