# R15 vs R10 (Which should I take)



## ccarmichael (Jun 3, 2003)

In a previous discussion, I told about how my 35-hour Philips DirecTV TiVO died. Today, DirecTV called and said that they do not have any R10s for shipping and am offering an R15 instead. 

I can opt to wait for the R10; but it could be a week. Any suggestions out there in DBSTalk land?

Thank you for reading and replying


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## Crystal Pepsi Ball (Jun 29, 2004)

I have an R15 and a R10. There are advanges and disadvanges with each. The R10 has TiVo and you have the ability to upgrade the hard drive if you want to. The R15 has caller ID, the USBs would be activated in a future upgrade for the new Direct2Go feature, you can delete multiple recordings at a time, and it has the interactive features, with more coming later this year. I like both, but have to give the edge to the R10 for stability issues. If you want a receiver that is going to be the standard in the future, go with the R15.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

The user interface (menu structure, etc.) is significantly different on the R15 than on the R10. Because you are used to Tivo, you will be much more comfortable using an R10 - the R15 will definately take you some getting used to.

However, I have 2 R15's and 1 R10, and I very much like the R15. Or, maybe I should say I will very much like the R15 when they iron out another bug or two, which hopefully will be soon. They have done a pretty decent job of sending out software upgrades for the R15, and we are all hoping to see another fairly soon.

You probably won't go too wrong with either choice.

Carl


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

I'd go R10. I have an R15 I'm playing with in my office, but IMO that unit is still not ready for prime time. Lots of new features already and promised, but basic DVR functions are still lacking.

Currently the R15:

Records repeat shows regardless of how you set the SL/SP;
Keep at Most/Keep Until logic doesn't work, or isn't defined if you look to keep x many episodes of a show and want either the newest or the oldest;
Has a non-existent history to see why something didn't record;
Records fine one day and then misses shows the next, no pattern;
At times records only portions of a show, could be the start, could be the end;
If you have many Season Passes/Series Links (> 20) the stability of the R15 is bad. Freezes up and requires a reset or unplugging;
Has a limit of 50 SPs/SLs, 50 history items and 100 Todo Items, The R10 doesn't have limits;
Over time the resets and unplugging seem to cause even more problems with the R15, cause unknown;
Every time the unit is reset/power cycled the guide is lost, takes about 24 hours for the guide to be reloaded so you will have limited searching/guide capabilities until that 24 hour period is complete;
Find features have problems, some work, some don't;
No wishlists;
No suggestions like the R10 (some like this, some don't)
_*No dual live buffers and the one live buffer is lost when watching a recorded show; - [EDIT]*_
No 28 day rule so that when shows play the same episode multiple times a week/day (like Rescue Me) the R15 records every one (unless you don't delete the show after you watch it);
When the R15 needs to change the channel, you get a message 5 minutes before it needs to change and unlike the R10, you either change the channel then (missing the last five minutes of your show) or you watch the rest of you show with this message taking up the lower right corner of the screen.
That's a start from my point why I still don't think this is an acceptable DVR and I would choose an R10.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> No dual tuners;


Not quite correct. No dual live buffers. The R15 does have dual tuners, but it only buffers one tuner, and loses that buffer when you do anything else (change channels, go into standby, use Active, etc.).

Carl


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

carl6 said:


> Not quite correct. No dual live buffers. The R15 does have dual tuners, but it only buffers one tuner, and loses that buffer when you do anything else (change channels, go into standby, use Active, etc.).
> 
> Carl


As yes, thanks.


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## SamRoza (Jun 1, 2006)

I'd say take the R10. The R15 is a dog. Between the lack of responsiveness to remote commands and the poor menu structure, poor FF and RW, and the SeriesLink issues, I'd say take the R10. 

I'm replacing my R15 with a Hughes DVR40 I got on eBay.

Sam


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

Go for the R-15. Its the future of DirecTV and supposedly all new receivers will look and operate the same so you might as well get used to it.

You WILL have some problems with the R-15, it WILL record dupes, it WILL lockup now and then but some of the features it offers that Tivos dont have are nice (conflict management, interactive features/channels, CID, longer buffer with auto save, record XM channels, ability to use the menus/guide while watching a recording, etc....).


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Bobman said:


> Go for the R-15. Its the future of DirecTV and supposedly all new receivers will look and operate the same so you might as well get used to it.
> 
> You WILL have some problems with the R-15, it WILL record dupes, it WILL lockup now and then but some of the features it offers that Tivos dont have are nice (conflict management, interactive features/channels, CID, longer buffer with auto save, record XM channels, ability to use the menus/guide while watching a recording, etc....).


Bobman,

DTivos also provide conflict management, plus they record what their told to record.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

I think the Conflict management he is referring to is the dialog box that lets you choose which of the conflicting recordings to cancel.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I think the Conflict management he is referring to is the dialog box that lets you choose which of the conflicting recordings to cancel.


Don't you get the same type of message and selections when you setup a conflicting Season Pass on a DTivo?


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## SamRoza (Jun 1, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> Don't you get the same type of message and selections when you setup a conflicting Season Pass on a DTivo?


As far as I recall, yes.

The R15 and its ilk may be the wave of the future. If so, however, the future is a LONG way off. So I'll take my TiVo box for the next 3 years. I'll use it until I can no longer use it. THen I'll grudgingly move over to whatever D* is touting as the wave of the future.

Although-once bitten, twice shy-perhaps I should get once version back of the "wave of the future" then. Sort of like waiting until 2003 to upgrade to Windows 2000...

Sam


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

SamRoza said:


> As far as I recall, yes.


The R-15 allows you to choose from ALL scheduled recordings that conflict PLUS allows you to choose to record the next scheduled showing if there is one. DirecTivos only shows you "1" choice with no ability to record the next showing. BIG difference if you ask me not being able to choose what to record or not.


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I think the Conflict management he is referring to is the dialog box that lets you choose which of the conflicting recordings to cancel.


Yes, the one with more choices than DirecTiVos have and the one that lets you choose to record the next showing if available.


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## mikewolf13 (Jan 31, 2006)

ccarmichael said:


> In a previous discussion, I told about how my 35-hour Philips DirecTV TiVO died. Today, DirecTV called and said that they do not have any R10s for shipping and am offering an R15 instead.
> 
> I can opt to wait for the R10; but it could be a week. Any suggestions out there in DBSTalk land?
> 
> Thank you for reading and replying


Yes the R15 is the style of the future wave of D* receivers,

Who cares.

Buy a Tivo, because it works. it's a minimal investment and you can replace it with the 2nd generation D* Plus DVR, if/when it ever works.

6 months ago people were advised (accurately) that Tivos are not gonna get upgrades and R15 was the wave of the future..well 6-7 months of that future is here and R15 still doesn't work and the Tivo i bought to replace my R15 does. Without upgrades/hacks or precious software upgrades.

I do not suspect that $ is a driving force for most of the people asking this question, functionality/features are. Buy the product that works, when a better product is sold and you want to upgrade, then buy it.

But, I could not advise anyone in good concience to buy a broken machine because it _may _someday work better, but likely by the time that day comes, it's replacement will be close to being released.

Wait for the R10. a week is small price to pay for a DVR that works...askany one who missed Lost or 24 or other shows what that week between episdoes was like.


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## mikewolf13 (Jan 31, 2006)

Bobman said:


> Yes, the one with more choices than DirecTiVos have and the one that lets you choose to record the next showing if available.


I beleive the TIvo does this automatically.

If i have 3 Season passes

Let's say, 24, Lost and SG-1 prioritized in that order (i know not on at same time, but easy to type)

all 3 are on at 8pm but Sg-1 repeats at 11pm

24 and Lost record at 8 as they are top2 priorites, at 11 because that ep of sg-1 was not recorded at 8, it records it at 11.

I don't have to "manage" anything. the machine does it.


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## ad301 (Mar 30, 2004)

It is nice to have an additional choice when trying to schedule conflicting single recordings. However, unless they've changed it since November, I stick to my opinion that the conflict resolution on the r15 is far _inferior_ to tivo units, due to the fact that you cannot enter a series link in a timeslot which already has two series links, unless you delete one of the prior series links first. We had a discussion of that issue starting here: http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=479324&postcount=21


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## mikewolf13 (Jan 31, 2006)

Bobman said:


> Go for the R-15. Its the future of DirecTV and supposedly all new receivers will look and operate the same so you might as well get used to it.
> 
> You WILL have some problems with the R-15, it WILL record dupes, it WILL lockup now and then but some of the features it offers that Tivos dont have are nice (conflict management, interactive features/channels, CID, longer buffer with auto save, record XM channels, ability to use the menus/guide while watching a recording, etc....).


How about a list of what the R10 does that the R15 doesn't..

imagine the R15 had been out for years and the R10 was just released, with dual buffers, improved wishlists, FF/RW functions that compensate for reaction time, suggestions, one-button switch between tuners, Save to VCR function, useful History, No SL or TODO limits...

sounds like an upgrade to me.

And I didn't even mention any of the bugs the r15 had, for this purpose i assumed it works as advertised.....without promised future functions...after all the R10 also has USB, capability for MRV and networking...as far as they go in these areas they are *currently *equal....(except you can hack a tivo and actually have those functions...but that's another forum)

My understanding from your posts is that you stopped using your R15 because of it's issues...why would you advise someone else to make the same mistake?


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

mikewolf13 said:


> How about a list of what the R10 does that the R15 doesn't.


Not to mention the fact that on the R10 you can setup multiple SPs for the same show on different channels. The R15 you can pick a show on one channel and that's it.


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## profbobo (Jan 22, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> Not to mention the fact that on the R10 you can setup multiple SPs for the same show on different channels. The R15 you can pick a show on one channel and that's it.


Yeah. That does not get mentioned enough. More people need to know about this. I really consider that a HUGE problem with the R15.

Do you like a show that airs on two different channels?

Family Guy on TOON
Family Guy on FOX

Well with the R15, pick one. You can't SL both of them.

Oh, and I don't know if it's been fixed yet. I gave up on my R15 in April.

But if you like Auto Recorded Wishlists or subscribe to a sports package. Forget the R15. It really screws this up. I had to check my To Do list every day and manually record NHL games.

Example: Red Wings/Hockey set to Auto Record. It was a crap shoot with the R15. Didn't matter if it had the game in the To Do list. The To Do list was more of a guideline for the R15.

The R15 is like a bad house guest. You go to work and leave a To Do list knowing when you get home the easy chores might be done. But the smart money is that the R15 drank all your beer, ate the To Do list, and pooped in your shoes.



<DirecTV Jingle>Somebody up there hates you... The R15.</DirecTV Jingle>


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## jonaswan2 (Oct 29, 2005)

profbobo said:


> Yeah. That does not get mentioned enough. More people need to know about this. I really consider that a HUGE problem with the R15.
> 
> Do you like a show that airs on two different channels?
> 
> ...


Not there slogan anymore. It's now "Good TV. Better TV. DirecTV."


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

jonaswan2 said:


> Not there slogan anymore. It's now "Good TV. Better TV. DirecTV."


So what your saying is that we are going to see a lot of posting "Good TV. Bad TV. DirecTV" on this board instead of someone up there hates you :lol:


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## ccarmichael (Jun 3, 2003)

Thanks to all. The R15 showed up and is installed. I don't like it; however it is mostly the learning curve. TiVO rocked, easier to use. The DirecTV multi-purpose remote is a dog. Some of the interface the R15 is clugging .... 

I have to stick with it; however my son has the R10 ... and he laughs at my wife and I.

I do like the caller ID feature, the 90-minute buffer and the guide is faster. So, I'll report back in a couple of weeks.

Thanks to all


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## profbobo (Jan 22, 2006)

ccarmichael said:


> ...I have to stick with it; however my son has the R10 ... and he laughs at my wife and I...


I lasted 2 months before I went back to DirecTV receivers with TiVo.

Anyone else out there replace their TiVo with a R15 and then switch back?

What's the shortest and longest R15 trial period out there?


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

profbobo said:


> I lasted 2 months before I went back to DirecTV receivers with TiVo.
> 
> Anyone else out there replace their TiVo with a R15 and then switch back?
> 
> What's the shortest and longest R15 trial period out there?


When we first switched from cable to DTV and got the R15, we intended to cancel our SA Tivo service.
The Tivo rep gave us two months free service to keep it and compare them (I guess he hadn't heard from Bobman that's it WRONG to compare them...lucky me :nono: ).
When we saw the R15's problems, and since we're were saving enough over cable to make up the price difference, we decided to keep both. Now we set the the Tivo to record anything we really don't want to miss, and when the R15 is behaving badly, we just watch stuff on the Tivo instead. We'll stick it out for another update or two and see if the R15 lives up to it's potential.

ApK


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## ad301 (Mar 30, 2004)

profbobo said:


> What's the shortest and longest R15 trial period out there?


I lasted just about a week. I wasn't replacing anything with the r15, I just wanted to test it with an eye towards the future HD version. If you're interested, I summarized my experience here:
http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=476200&postcount=1

I still hang out here because if the developers truly are tuning in to these conversations, then I want to try to keep the issues in the Find function from being forgotten.


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## vwprostock (Jun 10, 2006)

Well...I am a much more basic user than most on here and I only lasted a week with my new R-15. I was naive and when the hard drive on my R-10 apparantly died, I headed to Best Buy, grabbed a DVR Plus (R-15) and headed home. 

Generally happy upon install until I tried to thumbs up or thumbs down a program to begin the "learning" of my new Tivo so it could start snagging programs for me while I am gone. I travel four nights a week. 

No thumbs up/down, no auto record. Today I headed to Best Buy thinking I was just a dumba** and grabbed the wrong box. Only then did I find out TIvo and DirectTV have split up and the R-15 is the DirectTV answer to Tivo...and FAR from it in my opinion.

I then called DirectTV and they said they would send me a new reciever, but could not promise a R-10. I took the gamble and we shall see what comes to the door. If it is a R-15, I will send it back and hit e-bay!

Thats my opinion...

Greg


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## SamRoza (Jun 1, 2006)

I lasted about 2 weeks. One week of experimenting(by 'experimenting' I mean trying to make the darned thing work), and one week while waiting for my TiVo from eBay to arrive. I've probably watched about 2 or 3 hours of TV this week.

Thankfully it's the off-season or I'd seriously be pissed.

My new Hughes TiVo is installed and I'm pleased as hell.

Sam


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## ccarmichael (Jun 3, 2003)

It's too confusing; spoiled by TiVO. I called DirecTV and asked if they could take it back. Only if there is something wrong with it. :hurah: 

there will "be".


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## jonaswan2 (Oct 29, 2005)

ccarmichael said:


> It's too confusing; spoiled by TiVO. I called DirecTV and asked if they could take it back. Only if there is something wrong with it. :hurah:
> 
> there will "be".


I think you should order a new standard reciever first. They are all pretty much identical. The D11 will give you some much needed practice without being as overwhelming (I hope).


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## ccarmichael (Jun 3, 2003)

jonaswan2 said:


> I think you should order a new standard reciever first. They are all pretty much identical. The D11 will give you some much needed practice without being as overwhelming (I hope).


TiVO made an interface so good ever thing else pales, in my humble opinion.

I have messed/played/toyed with the unit today and it is easier ... stay tuned.


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

I know I have been very pro R-15 but over the last months I have been switching back and forth every 4-6 weeks between the R-10 and R-15 due to all the problems I had with the R-15 and they both have their advantages and disadvantages really.

For the R-10, there is no question its reliability and stabilty is vastly superior to the R-15. I dont think anyone can question this. I have not had a single lockup. I had forgot how handly it really is but the Wishlist feature of the DirecTivos can also be a very helpful and powerful search tool. I am not a live TV watching person but being able to press a button and switch between both tuners to see whats recording or on live if your watching live TV is also helpful. I know you can do something similiar with the R-15 (looking in VOD, just record both shows, etc...) but this is much easier. Even though most probably never use it and there is not a lot of reason to, the history is much more complete. I was wondering what happned to a show I wanted to see and found someone here deleted it when all the R-15 would tell me is "cancelled" for "everything"

The things I think could be improved with the R-10 are, you cant record XM channels but the R-15 can. I forgot about this and went to record a show and could not, arranging the SPM has to be done all at once which can sometimes take many many minutes depending upon how many SP's you have where the R-15 does them one at a time. The guide needs to be tweaked as watching it draw line by line, at times, is frustrating. Sure most use the other guide but if you want to see whats on right now, the slow clunky guide is easier.

The R-15, I would say has more bells and whistles, frills and features (like I posted a few posts back, you can look above) but this may also be whats contributing to all its problems. The PIP in all the screens and menus is handy and something many basic receivers already offer. So if you look back at my other post you can see all the R-15 benefits.

The downside of the R-15 is its recording reliability, much much better than when released but its still way behind the DirecTivos. Stability issues and lockups are repeatable for many I can make the R-15 lockup doing a few different things anytime I want and its repeatable time after time. Limits on SL's and TDL. Sure many will never even come close to hitting the 50 SL and 100 TDL limits but for some of us, they were evident and hampering us from the very beginning. It would not have been as bad, in my opinion, if DirecTV mentioned the limits in their marketing but they didnt and still dont. The DirecTiVos are no speed demon either but the R-15 in some ways is even slower with long pauses many places. This causes problems as you sometimes press the button again as your not sure its working. People have accidently deleted shows this way.

If you get the R-15 and only create 10-15 SL's and never fool with anything but the VOD list and guide, it will probably be a stable reliable unit for you. If you plan to use it like a DirecTiVo and do anything you want, go into any screen and fool with it, your in for problems with the R15.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

Bobman said:


> The downside of the R-15 is its recording reliability, much much better than when released but its still way behind the DirecTivos. Stability issues and lockups are repeatable for many I can make the R-15 lockup doing a few different things anytime I want and its repeatable time after time.


While I am sure the methods have been mentioned before, would you please share the specific processes or operations that you have found that will always (or usually) cause your R15 to lock up?

Also, when you say lockup, do you mean "it stays that way forever no matter how long I wait", or do you mean "After 30 seconds to a minute it is still locked up so I reset it"?

I'm not trying to justify or excuse poor performance, just trying to clarify the specifics of the problems you experience that are consistently repeatable.

Thanks,

Carl


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## stuart628 (Jul 8, 2004)

Well I have had the R15 since friday up and running, and my one has missed a recording, and locked up twice, I followed everyones advice, but I need a dvr that does what it is suppose to as my wife works very hard every day and wants to watch a show or two she missed when she comes home, and if it isnt on there she gets frustrated....so Dvr first, bells and whistle second, I will be trying to get a R10 off of directv for my "broken" R15, and will also get a new card for my old R10!


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## SamRoza (Jun 1, 2006)

A new R10(not from D*, because they most likely won't guarantee you one), or a replacement unit from eBay is what I'd suggest. I know I've said this like 400 times, but the cost was $80 after shipping and didn't require me to argue with D*, dicker with customer retention, or go electronics store to electronics store trying to find a DTiVo.

Sam


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## untouchable (Jun 24, 2006)

ApK said:


> When we saw the R15's problems, and since we're were saving enough over cable to make up the price difference, we decided to keep both. ApK


That's the best idea I've heard in a while...I have an R15 and 4 Tivo units, the R15 is setting next to my HD DVR so I can have both there...it works out really good for me to have it that way since I never watch live tv except the news.


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

EDITED NOTE: I just checked the R-15 forum and it looks like a new version is rolling out so much of this might be moot but I will try the below things with the new update when I get it.



carl6 said:


> will always (or usually) cause your R15 to lock up?


100% lockup and 100% of the time and "if" it doesnt lockup up directly its starts acting strange, the screens get garbled or go black with small PIP in the corner, then eventually it locksup. This is also with 45-50 SL's.

When I delete any SL. It either happens instantly or within a few minutes the box starts acting strange then locks up. Repeatable time after time.

Viewing an empty SL with no shows listed. Selecting the only option to leave the screen and not delete the SL. You can sometimes use the exit or back button to get out but if you use the choices that are there, it always lockups. Repeatable time after time.

Looking in the history and trying to scroll down to the end results in a lockup. I have never been able to get to the end of my history. Repeatable time after time. This also happens in the TDL but not as often.

Using the Find feature more than a few times at the same sitting usually results in a lockup with the black screen and viewable PIP in the upper corner. Not 100% repeatable but 75-80% of the time.

Just about everytime I fool with the Prioritzer for more than the simpliest change it cause some kind of problem or lockup. Repeatable about 90% of the time.

I see others here having these same problems and some even going to the point of reseetting their box ever day/few days just to avoid them.


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## ccarmichael (Jun 3, 2003)

The 'new' R15 last a couple weeks and then started to lock up. I called DTV and they are (hopefully) sending an R10 out ..


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

You will like the R-10 but its a lot different than the R-15 if you have never used one. I am still using my R-10 instead of the R-15 as I am waiting to hear about what the update does and if it fixes any of the issues I have had. The R-15's limits and stability are the biggest issues I have with it.


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## stuart628 (Jul 8, 2004)

I have to say this, My wife and I loved the R15 (when it wasnt locked up) I think Directv is def. going in the right direction, but until then I will use my rock solid R10, again DVR first, Bells and whistle second...If I cant Dvr a show with a Dvr or it forgets, what good is it?


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

stuart628 said:


> again DVR first, Bells and whistle second...If I cant Dvr a show with a Dvr or it forgets, what good is it?


I totally agree.  I too like the R-15 features, GUI, etc... (almost everything) much more than the DirecTiVos but after 5-6 or so months of using it (forgot when I bought it) I get so frustrated  that I just about gave up. You shouldnt have to make a routine to get a DVR to work or make sure its working correctly, it should be set it and forget it like the R-10.

With the R-15, twice a day I had to check the TDL to see what the heck it was doing and add shows it missed and/or delete duplicate shows. My R-10, with almost triple the number of SL/SP's, works like you expect except with bad guide data for channels like MTV,COM,E, and a few others.

Because it usually lockups or acts strange after you rearrange or delete a couple SL's, once a week usually near the beginning so it could rebuild the guide data by the weekend, I would do all my housecleaning. With the R-10 you can do these things anytime you want with no fear of lockups.

With the R-15 I had to keep a pad and pen, no joke, on the coffee table to keep track to shows I wanted to watch that could not be added to the R-15 as its 50 SL limitations and lack of decent find/search feature and then do what I mention next.

Friday night or Sat morning, being the R-15 only has 50 SL's and I have 100++ on my R-10, I have to spend approx. 60 minutes doing multiple find/searches and manually adding shows to record. The R-10 didnt need this done as there is no SP limit plus it has the wishlist search.

Sure some of these things might not be noticed by the casual user and some have a few problems, some many and some almost none but after 7 months of updates, its still limited and not even close to the R-10 reliability and stability. I have had more lockups since using the R-15 a couple months than multiple years of using SD DirectTivos where I have never had a single lockup that I can recall.

I was doing all the above for a couple months and then one day it hit me, what the heck am I doing ? Technology is supposed to make things simplier and more convient and here I am with pad and pen, scared to do certain things as it might lockup, etc... Not anymore. I cant wait for the day I can use the R-15 again as I really DO like its features but its not going back as the unit I use most until the limits are removed and stability improved.


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## rtstephn (Feb 11, 2006)

My wire really loves the R15. We replaced the R10 back in February with a free R15 from DTV. She always hated the incredibly slow menus and slow scheduling return of the R10. But she really likes all the interactivity of the R15. It hasn't really missed a show for her, either (at least she hasn't complained). She especially thinks it's cool to see what other DTV subs have been watching. 

We haven't had all the problems that others are reporting, thankfully.  

She would not go back to the R10.


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## ccarmichael (Jun 3, 2003)

I am on my fourth R15 in the past month. I give up .... does not record local shows and then locks up during USA's The 4400. I called DirecTV and they are sending a box out to take the boat anchor back. I found a TiVO on eBay and should have that early next week. For our house: the R15 to early to market. Long live the TiVO.


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

rtstephn said:


> She always hated the incredibly slow menus and slow scheduling return of the R10.


But she loves the speed of the R-15 ?  The R-15 is so sluggish and hesitates so much after pressing a button that many press buttons again and some have deleted multiple shows instead of one with "--" as they pressed it again as the R-15 looks like its not doing anything.


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

Really. I keep on hearing people talk about DTivo slowness. Is the DTivo really so much slower than an SA Tivo? 'Cuz every day-to-day operation on my SA Tivo is faster than my R15, EXCEPT stuff like sorting priorities and other list management ops. But currently, the R15 FREEZES after 2 or 3 of those ops, so until that's fixed, the Tivo wins there, too on average.


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## SamRoza (Jun 1, 2006)

My DVR40 is extremely fast, I don't think there is anything to this complaint. My R15 was so slow! It was slower than my old Samsung DTiVo(it was a Series 1 I think). 

I'm thrilled with the quickness of the 6.2 software on my DVR40.

Sam


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

I think some keep comparing the Tivo guide speed under 3.x software and the time it takes to re-prioritize SPs. Other than that the guide speed between Tivo running 6.1/6.2 and R15 is about the same, searches seem faster on my Tivos than the R15 and paging through search results is extremely faster on a Tivo.


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## rtstephn (Feb 11, 2006)

Bobman said:


> But she loves the speed of the R-15 ?  The R-15 is so sluggish and hesitates so much after pressing a button that many press buttons again and some have deleted multiple shows instead of one with "--" as they pressed it again as the R-15 looks like its not doing anything.


She seems to think the R15 is faster. We really haven't seen the sluggishness yet. When I asked her about it, with the R10, if she was watching live TV, and wanted to see the Now Playing list, it would take a while to populate that list. With the R15, it is significantly faster to go from live TV to the recorded shows. She doesn't do alot of stuff with deleting SLs and the like, so it may be slower there. She is a very basic DVR user. She records a show, then watches the show. Like I said, pretty basic! :grin:


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## sarge83 (Jul 27, 2006)

Take the R10. We have a Hughes in our bedroom with an upgraded harddrive and love it so we figured we would add one to our office tv and called Direct and they of course sent an R15 which we knew nothing about. 

I called Direct to complain after 2 days. The Direct tech I spoke with about the R15 went on about many little things extra the R15 had that the Tivo machines do not and I said you know thats all fine, but the R15 doesn't do the BASIC things such as record on time, have an easy method for searching for programs and as for the remote, were the designers on an LSD trip? All she could say was she was sorry... They would not send me an R10 unit to replace the R15. All they would do is take the Tivo $5.99 charge off for 6 months.

We had the R15 for all of 7 days before I bought a refurb. Hughes off Ebay for $50.

The wife fooled with the R15 for two hours and proclaimed it a pile of junk and wouldn't even watch tv in the room where it was located.


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## lydia (Aug 2, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> I'd go R10. I have an R15 I'm playing with in my office, but IMO that unit is still not ready for prime time. Lots of new features already and promised, but basic DVR functions are still lacking.
> 
> Currently the R15:
> 
> ...


I'd sell a kidney to get an R10. I was on the phone for 2 hours w/directv last night
& 2 hours the week before last. My problems with the R15 are NOT getting fixed with any software updates or anything else for that matter. Stick with Tivo!


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## SamRoza (Jun 1, 2006)

Lydia, do what others have suggested and buy one on eBay. I so desperately wanted a TiVo again that I bought a refurb'd DVR40 for $50 and sent my R15 back.

Sam


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

I know I flip flop from the R-15 to the DirecTiVos every other month :sure: but the R-15 can work well, except recording dupes, as long as you don't max out the SL's, don't sit there and do search after search after search and you turn it off (very important) when your not using it.

If all someone needs is a couple handfuls of SL/SP's and can remember to turn it off whenever not using it, the R-15 would be fine for them and they would probably not encounter a lot of issues others are having. My R-15 when I moved it into a bedroom as a casual use DVR, worked well with little problem except recording dupes.

If someone is a hardcore TV watcher and needs SL/SP's for everything, wants major search ability, wants to constantly tweak and change settings and priorities and wants to leave it on all the time like the DirecTiVo's, then the R-15 could be a problem for them.


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## cybok0 (Jan 5, 2006)

Bobman said:


> I know I flip flop from the R-15 to the DirecTiVos every other month :sure: but the R-15 can work well, except recording dupes, as long as you don't max out the SL's, don't sit there and do search after search after search and you turn it off (very important) when your not using it.
> 
> If all someone needs is a couple handfuls of SL/SP's and can remember to turn it off whenever not using it, the R-15 would be fine for them and they would probably not encounter a lot of issues others are having. My R-15 when I moved it into a bedroom as a casual use DVR, worked well with little problem except recording dupes.
> 
> If someone is a hardcore TV watcher and needs SL/SP's for everything, wants major search ability, wants to constantly tweak and change settings and priorities and wants to leave it on all the time like the DirecTiVo's, then the R-15 could be a problem for them.


I agree, my DTIVO is my main dvr in the livingroom my R15 is in my bedroom and my second R15(free one thanks to your thread)is going into my daughters room.

I like the R15 alot but still dont trust it enough to take over my DTIVO space in priority dvrs.

I never and i mean never had a problem with my R15 but im still not ready or trust it enough.


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## sluggo0018 (Aug 21, 2006)

Newbie here. Sorry in advance for any stupid questions.

So, my old Hughes D*TIVO died last night. Called D* technical assistance and was given two options, R-10 or R-15. After reading this thread, I decided that R-10 was a better choice for me. Then the Tier 2 CSR looked at my past call in log and told me that if I cannot initially call into TIVO at setup, the unit won't work as a DVR. This is a problem because we recently switched from standard phone service to Earthlink VOIP through Comcast Cable internet. Ever since the switch, the old unit was not able to make it's daily call. Apparently, this was not a problem since the unit was initially able to make a call with the standard phone service before we switched.

I would still prefer the R10, but don't want to order it and then find out it might not work. THe CSR indicated that I *may* be able to work with Earthlink to make the phone service compatible with the R-10. This might slow down my internet connection speed, kind of defeating the whole purpose of upgrading from dial up to cable. Haven't yet checked with Earthlink to see if this is possible. It seems as though the phone problems would be a non-issue with the R-15, but I'm not sure if I want to put up all with the R-15 problems listed in this thread. They say R-15 doesn't need to call in for initial setup. They also indicated that R-15 does work with VOIP. The caller ID function should also work.

Has anyone dealt with any of these issues? Any advice?

Thanks.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Welcome!!!!

Could you run next door to a neighbor's house or some family member's house to perform the initial call? Many folks have done that as that first call is all that's needed.

Also, some have gotten the DTivo units to work with VoIP, TivoCommunity may be the best place to check on that. But I wouldn't worry about your bandwidth. The calls don't last that long nor transfer that much info.


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

sluggo0018 said:


> Has anyone dealt with any of these issues? Any advice?


Go with the R-15. Chances are by the time yours get installed it will have the latest software update going around now which fixes a lot of current issues. Every month that goes by it gets better and more reliable. I am hopeing by the time football season ends, ie.. another update or two, I can retire my R-10 and go only with R-15's from then on.


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## Rick J (Aug 18, 2006)

SamRoza said:


> Lydia, do what others have suggested and buy one on eBay. I so desperately wanted a TiVo again that I bought a refurb'd DVR40 for $50 and sent my R15 back.
> 
> Sam


I'm new to the DVR world but I know I have a R15 purchased from DTV in Mar 06. If I was to purchase a Tivo unit from EBAY what additional costs are associated to get the DirecTV programming working on the purchased Tivo unit?

TIA

Rick.


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

Rick J said:


> what additional costs are associated to get the DirecTV programming working on the purchased Tivo unit?


It would be $5 a month for the extra receiver and $20 for a new access card from DirecTV if you need one.


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## Rick J (Aug 18, 2006)

Bobman said:


> It would be $5 a month for the extra receiver and $20 for a new access card from DirecTV if you need one.


If I put a Hughes DVR into service and took the R15 out of service would the access card in my R15 work in the aftermarket DVR or does each manufacturer DVR require a unique DirecTV access card?

TIA

Rick.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

The $20 for an access card issue is at best fuzzy. I've purchased two DTivos off eBay and in each instance when I called to activate I did not have any problem. DTV never made me purchase an additional card.

In your case, using your own access card from a different unit "shouldn't" be a problem. All the CSR needs to do is "marry" the access card to the receiver.


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## bnm81002 (Oct 2, 2004)

Wolffpack said:


> The $20 for an access card issue is at best fuzzy. I've purchased two DTivos off eBay and in each instance when I called to activate I did not have any problem. DTV never made me purchase an additional card.
> 
> In your case, using your own access card from a different unit "shouldn't" be a problem. All the CSR needs to do is "marry" the access card to the receiver.


is it possible to use the access card from a standard receiver(D10) in a DTivo DVR which is not a R10 or R15? thanks


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## sluggo0018 (Aug 21, 2006)

So I posted a day or two ago trying to decide of I should replace my dead D*Tivo unit with an R-10 or R-15. I finally decided that since I no longer have a land based phone line, the R-15 would be a better choice since it does not need an initial phone call to get started. I also got them to include the 6 months free Showtime. I ordered it yesterday and the FedEx man arrived today. The funny thing is that they sent an R-15 as ordered. Additionally, they sent an R-10. Both appear to be brand new, no refurb stickers. 

Guess I'll try the R-15 first, see how I like it. Would it be possible to get D* to allow me to activate the R-10 in addition to the R-15 to replace one of my old standard D* receivers? I can probably make the initial call at a neighbors house. This is probably a stupid question, but does the R-10 need to be connected to a D* satellite signal when the call is made?

Any help would be appreciated.

Oh yeah, both units came with access cards.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

bnm81002 said:


> is it possible to use the access card from a standard receiver(D10) in a DTivo DVR which is not a R10 or R15? thanks


I don't see why that wouldn't work. I believe the R15s need the newer card but any older receiver should be able to use any still valid DTV card.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

sluggo0018 said:


> So I posted a day or two ago trying to decide of I should replace my dead D*Tivo unit with an R-10 or R-15. I finally decided that since I no longer have a land based phone line, the R-15 would be a better choice since it does not need an initial phone call to get started. I also got them to include the 6 months free Showtime. I ordered it yesterday and the FedEx man arrived today. The funny thing is that they sent an R-15 as ordered. Additionally, they sent an R-10. Both appear to be brand new, no refurb stickers.


Wow, interesting.



sluggo0018 said:


> Guess I'll try the R-15 first, see how I like it. Would it be possible to get D* to allow me to activate the R-10 in addition to the R-15 to replace one of my old standard D* receivers? I can probably make the initial call at a neighbors house. This is probably a stupid question, but does the R-10 need to be connected to a D* satellite signal when the call is made?


They sent you both, they sure should be willing to activate both. When you do the call it doesn't need to be connected to a SAT. When it starts trying to gather the SAT data press the DirecTV button and go into Setup and make your call. You should be all set after that.


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## bnm81002 (Oct 2, 2004)

Wolffpack said:


> I don't see why that wouldn't work. I believe the R15s need the newer card but any older receiver should be able to use any still valid DTV card.


so let's see for example I decide to take the free R15 DVR promotion and deactivate my standard receiver(D10) since the R15 must use it's own access card as you have said, I can still use the access card from the D10 to be used in an older earlier DTivo DVR in the future if I decide to get one(ebay, friend, etc.) no matter how long the D10 has been deactivated? thanks


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

bnm81002 said:


> so let's see for example I decide to take the free R15 DVR promotion and deactivate my standard receiver(D10) since the R15 must use it's own access card as you have said, I can still use the access card from the D10 to be used in an older earlier DTivo DVR in the future if I decide to get one(ebay, friend, etc.) no matter how long the D10 has been deactivated? thanks


That should work. If you run into a DTV CSR that gives you grief, hang up and call back...get the next CSR in the queue. But the card from your old D10 should work in any new/old DTivo bought off eBay. In fact, if the DTivo comes with a card that may work. But since you have your own, use that to avoid any problems with the past owner charging up $500 of PPVs.

Oh, just another FYI, when you call to activate any unit you may get off eBay, don't say you got this off eBay, just say your brother-in-law gave it to you.


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## bnm81002 (Oct 2, 2004)

Wolffpack said:


> That should work. If you run into a DTV CSR that gives you grief, hang up and call back...get the next CSR in the queue. But the card from your old D10 should work in any new/old DTivo bought off eBay. In fact, if the DTivo comes with a card that may work. But since you have your own, use that to avoid any problems with the past owner charging up $500 of PPVs.
> 
> Oh, just another FYI, when you call to activate any unit you may get off eBay, don't say you got this off eBay, just say your brother-in-law gave it to you.


hey a big thanks for all of your help, now I be getting that free R15 DVR from the promotion that Directv is running and I'll store my D10 till I need the access card in the future


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## scubaduba (Sep 14, 2006)

Is there an extra fee to pay Tivo if you have the R10? I have the R15 right now and am payming a $5.99 DVR fee to DirecTV. If I switched to an R10 would I still pay the $5.99 DVR charge plus a Tivo charge?


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

No. Same charge.


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## scubaduba (Sep 14, 2006)

What is the $5.99 charge for anyway? If I purchased an R10 from Compusa what does the $5.99 fee go for?


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

DVR service fee from DTV. It's what they charge you use a DVR on their service.
Similar to the monthly fee you'd pay Tivo or Replay or Comcast. But lower, in most cases.
While of course I'd rather that they offered it at no extra charge, I do like that the $5.99 is good for as many DVRs as you care to have on your system.


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## scubaduba (Sep 14, 2006)

Ok. Makes sense.

I'm really torn witih what to do here. I like the fact that I got my R15 for free. I also see that it is likely that the R15 will continue getting updates to become a much better machine. But it is so frustrating to use with the current bugs. I switched to DTV from dishnetwork and was using one of their older PVR's which I found very intuitive. Using the R15 is much more complex and requires more menus and button pressing.

I can purchase an R10 new from Compusa for $60. Not a big price to pay but the R15 was free. Plus, no new updates for the R10. And since I am leasing the R15 I would imagine free upgrades (or at least lower cost upgrades) to new hardware should DTV decide to discontinue the R15. I can see having to pay a hefty price to upgrade from the R10 to some other newer device in the future.

Thoughts???? Which way to go? I wish I could try both side by side. Is there anyway that I could test side by side?


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## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

If you can test them side by side in the store, otherwise you can't test it at home without ativating it.

Also, if you purchase the R10 for $60 at CompUSA, that box will be leased, just so you're aware of that. You would need to return the R10 if you ever cancel service.


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## scubaduba (Sep 14, 2006)

Actually, I don't think so. I purchased one tonight no strings attached. They sold it to me like any other product. No contracts to sign or leasing of any kind. I even asked if I was going to be required to sign anything and they looked at me like I was crazy.


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## scubaduba (Sep 14, 2006)

Ok. I have my new R10 from Compusa hooked up and everything is great! I've only been using it for a couple hours now but I can say I think I like almost everything about the R10 better than the R15. The last draw for me tonight with my R15 is when my wife and I sat down to watch Justice that we thought we had recorded but the R15 chose not to apparently. It showed it as a recorded item in MyVOD but instead the actual recording was just the DirecTV help channel (201 I think). What a joke. That was it... I hooked up the new R10

I've never had a Tivo device before this one. Before DirecTv I had Dish Network and was using a PVR 501 from Dish. I was concered about the R10 needing to dial in using a phone line since I use Vonage. But no problems at all. Everything worked through Vonage.

The menus on the R10 are much more intuitive (at least to me). I like the Tivo sounds as you move amongst the menus. It really helps affirm that you've done something and the device is responding to the remote. Maybe it will be annoying in the future... but then I can just turn the sounds off. For now, its helpful.

I love being able to switch between the two tuners and pause both of them. The R15 absolutely needs this feature. Maybe sometime in the future huh....

The case on the R15 does look better in my opinion with the cool blue lights etc. But that is totally secondary to good funtionality.

I think I will miss the small box in the top right corner on the R15 that shows when you are in menus. That was nice. I might miss the caller ID feature too... but that's not really a big deal. The active mix menu on the R15 is cool... but you can still get to that on the R10 by just going to channels 102, 104 etc.

Purchasing my own R10 also got me out of my 24 month contract with DirecTV that you have to have when you get one of their R15s. Now I have no contract and have the flexibility of being able to cancel my subscription with DirecTV with no penalty should I need to.

All in all, I'm a happy camper so far.


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## scubaduba (Sep 14, 2006)

I'll also add that the sound quality on the R10 seems better than the R15. This is no scientific study but it seems that surround sound in particular is better.


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## mrb (Sep 14, 2006)

scubaduba said:


> I'll also add that the sound quality on the R10 seems better than the R15. This is no scientific study but it seems that surround sound in particular is better.


I've had the R15 for six months now...I've had three actually. It appears from reading through here that I can get an R10 either from D* or buy one for about $60 new somewhere, return the R15 and pay the same fee to D* of $5.99 a month.
Is this true?
Does D* still support the R10 software/hardware?
If so, it's TiVo, dual tuners, etc...please tell me I'm right on this!!!
Thanks, great forum.

--mrb


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

Your right and they will still work fine. I doubt there will ever be any updates for the DirecTiVos though.


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## petefromtracy-NY Giants (Sep 25, 2006)

to SDVR40 in less than 2 hours


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Bobman said:


> Your right and they will still work fine. I doubt there will ever be any updates for the DirecTiVos though.


What updates would one need? DTivos record what they're told to record, when they're to record it. They run for months even years without needing to be reset. They have a nice 30 second skip. They have a reliable 7 second jump back. They have dual tuners. They don't loose recordings on their own. They don't reboot on their own (other than with hardware problems). They don't go to a black screen with no control. They have Wishlists.

So what if DTivos will not receive any further software updates? They don't need them. They work as one expects them to work.


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> What updates would one need?


How about it fix the folders to know when its empty so you dont have to manually close it ?

How about adding the ability to directly record the Xm channels ?

How about adding interactive ability so you can use the full features of the NFLST ?

How about error 32 which is a database error and happened to me when I moved my R-10 ?

How about : http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4407480#post4407480

How about: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=313471

And dont forget this: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=317006

And this: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=282582

And this: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=316258

And so so so many many more.  Wow, starts to sound more like the R-15 when your not wearing blinders.


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

As I posted in the R15 forum just now, I called retention and asked if I could get a r10 to replace my r15.
The lady said ''yes." On pressing, she said "well, maybe."
So we'll see what shows up at my door in a few days.
I didn't think to ask, but assuming I DO get an R10, I HOPE they'd only replace a 100hr dvr with the 80hr dtivo, not the 40hrs....right?


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## petefromtracy-NY Giants (Sep 25, 2006)

buy a larger drive and put it in yourself


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

No joy. My replacement receiver showed up and it's just another R15.

I guess I'll slink back over to the R15 forum and complain untill the next update...

I must say, I wish all CSRs were like DTV's retention people.

The woman I spoke to today was very nice and sympathetic, went off to see if there was anyway she could get me an R10, refunded the shipping charge to my account and gave me a service credit to make up for the continuing trouble.

As I say, it'd be better if there were no problems, but if there are, all I can ask is that they make a good effort to make it right. I mean compared to Comcast's retention efforts, geesh... Comcast might well call it the "we're-not-interested-in-retention group."


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