# Real answers about NBA blackouts?



## Mr.72 (Feb 2, 2007)

I know this is probably not dish specific but who knows. 

Last year Dish passed the buck when I inquired about why games were blacked out inexplicably.

Does anyone know of any way to get to the bottom of this? There is no NBA team in my city, and I cannot receive any local broadcast of NBA games. So there should be no reason for a blackout, right? 

Any insight is appreciated.

Go Spurs!


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## Charles Oliva (Apr 22, 2002)

Austin is barely inside the Spurs 75 mile designated home territory.
Spurs broadcast on FSN Southwest should be available in Austin, but it must be the Spurs "home broadcasters", games on FSN Southwest that are Mavericks or Rockets "home" broadcast don't count.
Local broadcast on KENS and KMYS in San Antonio will trigger a blackout for other RSN's that are airing the game in Austin.


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## Mr.72 (Feb 2, 2007)

How is it that Austin is inside this home territory?

Not only that but I actually live in Cedar Park, which is north of Austin.

it's over 90 miles to SA. There is no line of sight. You'd have to be within 30-40 miles to pick up a SA broadcast OTA.

This is ludicrous! Who do I complain to? I guess really what the NBA and the Spurs want is for Austinites to NOT see the games and become fans?


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## alebowgm (Jun 12, 2004)

Every league has blackout rules in place, all of which seem stupid to the average fan who want's the ability to just see the games they choose to. It isn't hard to find numerous threads all over the internet about what is and isn't a teams local area.

Anyways, blackout rules have NOTHING to do with Dish, except that they have to enforce the rules and everything to do with the sports team/the league/the network. Once in awhile, Dish will get Blackouts wrong, I think this was seen last year with MLB Baseball on ESPN, but for the most part, you are best off talking to your local sports team to get started.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackout_(broadcasting)#United_States


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

I'm also in Austin and have D*. Last year there was a Spurs game on NBA-TV, it was blacked out on D*. Nobody at D* could tell me why except parriot back all the blackout rules, none of which I could match to our area. I checked with channel 54 since they sometimes carry the Spurs, but not this game, to see if for some reason they requested it, they didn't. I checked with the one station in San Antonio that did carry the game OTA asking if they requested Austin to be blacked out, they said no and he was also nice enough to ask the Spurs if they did, they didn't. I e-mailed and wrote to NBA TV outlining the prooblem and asking if they asked for the blackout or could find out why, figuring that since it was their TV network that was blacked out they might want to find out why, never did get a response. Hopefully you'll have better luck trying to find out.


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## Mr.72 (Feb 2, 2007)

well they always talk about how small of a TV market San Antonio has but this is pretty much like cutting off what could be a big portion of their market. Austin has no NBA team so SA is as close as it gets to a local NBA team. Would be nice if we could watch the games! Nice, I mean, for the NBA, in terms of ad revenue and licensing of content.


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## Mr.72 (Feb 2, 2007)

alebowgm said:


> Every league has blackout rules in place, all of which seem stupid to the average fan who want's the ability to just see the games they choose to. It isn't hard to find numerous threads all over the internet about what is and isn't a teams local area.


really? I can't find any info about that for San Antonio's "local area" except a bunch of Austin people complaining about somehow being blacked out without any discernible pattern.



> Anyways, blackout rules have NOTHING to do with Dish, except that they have to enforce the rules and everything to do with the sports team/the league/the network. Once in awhile, Dish will get Blackouts wrong, I think this was seen last year with MLB Baseball on ESPN, but for the most part, you are best off talking to your local sports team to get started.


so you're saying, "don't ask on this forum"... right?



> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackout_(broadcasting)#United_States


According to that article, there is no reason for San Antonio games to *ever* be blacked out in Austin since there is no part of Austin that is less than 35 miles from San Antonio.

So unless they define Austin or some suburb of Austin to be San Antonio's "local area" then there is no reason for any blackouts.

Of course that wikipedia article also says that for the NBA, these blackouts only apply to NBATV games ... but of course I am seeing blackouts on FSNSW.


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## Zero327 (Oct 10, 2006)

How about because they want diehard fans to fill the seats instead of sitting on the couch where they make pennies on the dollar instead of fistfulls of cash? What, you thought DISH were the only ones out to make money?


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## Mr.72 (Feb 2, 2007)

well, you know, it's a 2 hr. drive, game lasts 2.5 hours, then 2 hrs home. you'd think "something is better than nothing". but I guess we really don't have any answers about blackouts.


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## alebowgm (Jun 12, 2004)

Mr. 72 - I will use an NFL example for the NBA, which may expalin your situation, maybe not. In the NFL, it is a 75mile rule, so if another DMA lies within 75miles, then they are under blackout rules as well. So in Buffalo for example, the 75 mile radius includes Rochester NY. Rochester is a 2 hour or so drive as well from Buffalo, just like Austin, and in fact, the Rochester DMA only has a half-mile of the DMA that falls within the 75miles, but because offically a part of the Rochester DMA lies within the 75mile radius, Rochester is subject to such blackouts.

Not sure if this helps or not with your situation. If anyone wants more info on the NFL Blackout, may be worth looking at http://the506.com/nflmaps/index.html and the forms on that site which have more information.


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## colavsfaninnwia (Jan 25, 2006)

NFL is a different animal when it comes to blackouts than the other big sports. In the NFL, there is a market blackout when the stadium does NOT sell out. In the other sports, blackouts are not based on sell outs. If that were the case, than there would be a whole lot more blacked out NBA, MLB, and NHL games. Its not really fair to compare NBA to NFL.


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## alebowgm (Jun 12, 2004)

colavsfaninnwia - I wasnt using it to compare NFLs stadium blackouts vs. the other systems. Moreso, it was in the case of showing how even though it may appear that one is not within the radius, since a little edge of the DMA is, as in the case of Rochester, the blackout affects that TV station.


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## Mr.72 (Feb 2, 2007)

well according to Wikipedia, it's 35 miles for NBA.

but there is nothing that clearly identifies what exactly is the home area. 35 miles from _what_?

In the case of San Antonio, does that mean it is blacked out for me if my address is 35 miles from the San Antonio city limit? Or 35 miles from the city limit of the closest city that is considered a part of the home area (like, say, San Marcos)? Or is it, the city limit of my city is 35 miles from the closest city limit of a city in the home area? Or, is it by TV market? Like, if any part of the broadcast area of the local TV station in Austin is within 35 miles of whatever is the home area of San Antonio?

See this is what I mean. 35 miles is meaningless unless we know what exactly they are talking about, exactly what constitutes the "home area", etc.

I mean, the city of Austin is 35 miles from one limit to the other in some direction!

The reality is that I can't pick up San Antonio local TV stations, so when they black out a game due to a local TV station in SA having broadcast rights, it means in Austin we can't watch it, unless you live way in the very far southwest suburbs of Austin and have a big antenna on a tall pole.

I guess this is what I meant by "real answers". Seems the NBA etc. are intentionally vague, so that we can't really have any legitimate complaint. The rules are "it's blacked out sometimes, because of some kind of broadcast rights, and it depends, so if it's blacked out, then tough luck". It's a standard run around. I call Dish, they say "we don't have any control over blackouts". the NBA does not answer email inquiries about it. The teams do not publish any contact info. It's a complete dead end if you want answers from the NBA or individual teams. I even asked one of the commentators (friend of mine) who was working for FSN and had worked for the Spurs for over a decade before going to FSN and even he didn't understand the blackout rules.


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

I wonder if the game is available in NBALP? I know it's an expensive solution, however that could be the driving force behind the blackout to your address. 

Can the games be seen in a local bar? If so than I'm willing to bet the NBA wants you to get NBALP.

Question: Do you actually see the game in your EPG but blacked out, or are you seeing alternative FSN programming at the time of the game? If you are seeing alternative FSN programming there may be a different FSN carrying the game. Perhaps a subscription to the Multisport Pack will unlock the game (if the Spurs claim your zip code as being in their territory). Here in Ohio there are 3 different feeds of FSN Ohio. Thanks to the Columbus Blue Jackets some Cleveland Cavaliers games get lost on the central Ohio residents.


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## alebowgm (Jun 12, 2004)

Mr.72 said:


> Or 35 miles from the city limit of the closest city that is considered a part of the home area (like, say, San Marcos)? Or is it, the city limit of my city is 35 miles from the closest city limit of a city in the home area? Or, is it by TV market? Like, if any part of the broadcast area of the local TV station in Austin is within 35 miles of whatever is the home area of San Antonio?


Mr.72- My understanding would be that it would probably be the case of San Marcos AND the TV makret. I quickly pulled up Microsoft Streets and Maps and drew a line from San Antonio to San Marcos and it is about 35miles. I am assuming San Marcos is part of the Austin DMA though, so they get your locals. Becuase of that, the entire Austin DMA gets blacked out of the game, because a part of the Austin DMA is within the 35mile radius. This is what I tried to explain in the Buffalo/Rocehster example, the Rochester TV DMA lies half a mile within the radius, but because of that, the entire Rochester DMA loses the games when they are blacked out, so I am assuming the same is happening here.

However, just to add to all of this, I found this over at the DirecTV website trying to explain how blackouts work for the NBA.



> The Lakers are playing the Rockets and both teams are broadcasting the game locally - KCAL-9 in the Los Angeles area and FSN SOUTHWEST in the Houston area. NBA LEAGUE PASS subscribers living in the Los Angeles area will be blacked out within the Lakers' over-the-air territory. To see the game, they must be able to receive KCAL. Subscribers living outside of the KCAL coverage area will receive the game via NBA LEAGUE PASS unless they live in the Houston area. Subscribers in the Houston area will be blacked out of the game in NBA LEAGUE PASS, but subscribers can view the game on their over-the-air television station or their local regional sports network (RSN) - included with CHOICE programming and Local Channels.





Mr.72 said:


> The reality is that I can't pick up San Antonio local TV stations, so when they black out a game due to a local TV station in SA having broadcast rights, it means in Austin we can't watch it, unless you live way in the very far southwest suburbs of Austin and have a big antenna on a tall pole.


I agree that sucks, but you are dealing with a buerocracy here, I dont see anyone getting to the bottom of it to be honest. Dish gets a list of what ZIP codes to blackout games for, and they just input it, and for whatever reasons, Austin is on that list for Spurs games.


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## Mr.72 (Feb 2, 2007)

bummer it is.

FWIW I see the games in the EPG. Then when I try to switch to that channel or schedule a timer to record it, it gives an error message that "this program is not available in your area" or something like that.

I would think San Marcos is in both Austin and San Antonio DMA.

I wouldn't mind if I could figure out some way to "move" to SA and get the locals via Dish. This would solve the problem for me absolutely, not to mention the fact that Dish does not offer Austin locals in HD but they do in SA.


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

> I would think San Marcos is in both Austin and San Antonio DMA.


Nope. Every address is in just one DMA. It's usually based on county, however at least one county (in New York State) is split down the middle. They use Zip codes to determine where you are.


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## epokopac (Aug 8, 2007)

While this info was obtained from the D* web site, it's probably accurate as well for an E* account:

The 78630 ZIP Code is in the home team territory for the following pro teams. With HD Access select channels and teams available in HD are noted below:

With any DIRECTV base package:

FSN Southwest (Ch. 643) - HD Available

Dallas Stars (HD Available)

FC Dallas

Houston Astros (HD Available)

San Antonio Spurs (HD Available)

Texas Rangers (HD Available)

Teams and ZIP Codes are subject to change. Blackout restrictions apply to regional sports networks. To view games of other pro teams (out-of-market) requires the purchase of professional sports packages sold separately.


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## jmrodjr (Dec 18, 2007)

Found a link that answers many questions on NBA League Pass Black Out Rules


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## jmrodjr (Dec 18, 2007)

Defines what is a over the air market (OTA) and Regional Sports Network (RSN) blackout


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## jmrodjr (Dec 18, 2007)

This info states that Austin falls under Spurs RSN blackout Area


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## jmrodjr (Dec 18, 2007)

Therefore spurs games broadcast on over the air stations in San Antonio should not be blacked out in the Austin area on NBA League Pass


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## jmrodjr (Dec 18, 2007)

Hopefully this info helps


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## jmrodjr (Dec 18, 2007)

Here is the link

http://www.tsq.com/alerts/NBA League Pass blackouts 2007 2008.pdf


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## jmrodjr (Dec 18, 2007)

check out this link

http://www.tsq.com/alerts/NBA League Pass blackouts 2007 2008.pdf


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## Greg Bimson (May 5, 2003)

I think the problem here is that the reasoning is a bit backwards...

The NBA has assigned the Austin market to the San Antonio Spurs. Unlike the ABC/ESPN deal, where the channels have a national rights deal that supplants the local rights, the deal with NBA TV does not.

So, if the Washington Wizards were on NBA TV, I would not be able to get the game, as I am in the Washington Wizards market. I would need to check a local station or the local RSN, Comcast Sportsnet Mid-Atlantic.

In the case of the OP, he wrote:


> Does anyone know of any way to get to the bottom of this? There is no NBA team in my city, and I cannot receive any local broadcast of NBA games. So there should be no reason for a blackout, right?


The Spurs have a contract with Fox Sports Southwest and a local channel in San Antonio. However, a station in Austin could have picked up the Spurs' OTA network and broadcast a game that night. And specifically, that is why you were blacked out, even though you had no true access.


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