# HDCP Copyright Protection



## coconut13 (Apr 14, 2013)

I received software update 0x0A05 on my HR44 500 early this morning. I have an HR24 200 and the HR44 500 both hooked up to 5 different rooms by splitting the HD signal and using the component hookup on each DVR. As of this morning after the update on the HR44. ALL D* channels are blocked for HDCP reasons. Even the channels on my HR24, and the last update on the HR24 was 6/17. By using a powered HDMI splitter, my setup bypasses this. But for anyone wanting to use component cables, you will now receive the HDCP message on all D* channels. In my setup with the HD splitters I have, I can also use the component hookup, as the splitter makes it compliant and the component hookup works.


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## Delroy E Walleye (Jun 9, 2012)

Yup, this seems to be something new. And not just HR44. 

HR20/700 and H25/500 with HDMI connected to a powered-down TV or another TV using another HDMI input seems to have this issue. I'll have to do some swapping of HDMI to see if this issue also affects HR21. So far it doesn't seem to, but that cable is connected to a TV whose HDMI 1 in (an LG) seems to pass HDCP whether the TV is on or off, or tuned to another input.


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## ejbvt (Aug 14, 2011)

It is not new - it's been this way for several years. You're lucky to have had it this long. I have had Directv for several years and I have never been able to use the component and HDMI together - On my old HR24 and HR34 or current HR44.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

ejbvt said:


> It is not new - it's been this way for several years. You're lucky to have had it this long. I have had Directv for several years and I have never been able to use the component and HDMI together - On my old HR24 and HR34 or current HR44.


Unless I'm misunderstanding what I've read, this was only a problem on flagged content before. It sounds like it has gone across the board again as has occasionally been the case since the early days.

There are two options for dealing with flagged content and DIRECTV chose the analog blackout/silence option.

Using splitters shouldn't help if it is truly an HDCP issue as they only help non-compliant HDMI gear pass. The only way analog outputs on the DIRECTV receivers should work is if you sever the HDMI connections altogether.


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## ejbvt (Aug 14, 2011)

harsh said:


> Unless I'm misunderstanding what I've read, this was only a problem on flagged content before. It sounds like it has gone across the board again as has occasionally been the case since the early days.
> 
> There are two options for dealing with flagged content and DIRECTV chose the analog blackout/silence option.
> 
> Using splitters shouldn't help if it is truly an HDCP issue as they only help non-compliant HDMI gear pass. The only way analog outputs on the DIRECTV receivers should work is if you sever the HDMI connections altogether.





harsh said:


> Unless I'm misunderstanding what I've read, this was only a problem on flagged content before. It sounds like it has gone across the board again as has occasionally been the case since the early days.
> 
> There are two options for dealing with flagged content and DIRECTV chose the analog blackout/silence option.
> 
> Using splitters shouldn't help if it is truly an HDCP issue as they only help non-compliant HDMI gear pass. The only way analog outputs on the DIRECTV receivers should work is if you sever the HDMI connections altogether.


I have always had Showtime in my time with Directv - perhaps that is why I have always seen it. I don't use analog outputs with a HD receiver, because it's 2015.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

harsh said:


> Unless I'm misunderstanding what I've read, this was only a problem on flagged content before. It sounds like it has gone across the board again as has occasionally been the case since the early days.
> 
> There are two options for dealing with flagged content and DIRECTV chose the analog blackout/silence option.
> 
> Using splitters shouldn't help if it is truly an HDCP issue as they only help non-compliant HDMI gear pass. The only way analog outputs on the DIRECTV receivers should work is if you sever the HDMI connections altogether.


I have ran my Samsung with my HR24 with component cables for video and an optical cable for the audio to my Yamaha and it works flawless.
The only thing it will not do is the 1080p and higher content programming. If you do not do PPV movies you don't get 1080p programming.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

jimmie57 said:


> I have ran my Samsung with my HR24 with component cables for video and an optical cable for the audio to my Yamaha and it works flawless.
> The only thing it will not do is the 1080p and higher content programming. If you do not do PPV movies you don't get 1080p programming.


With no HDMI you don't have HDCP so there are no HDCP issues.


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## gdn (Aug 5, 2007)

Issue here today as well - Genie receiver connected to a Monoprice HDMI 1080P 1 in and 4 out splitter. The splitter is then connected to two TV's with HDMI. As of today I also get the copyright protection. I plug the Genie directly into the main TV and all plays just fine. Go back to the splitter and nothing plays.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

slice1900 said:


> With no HDMI you don't have HDCP so there are no HDCP issues.


Absolutely Correct. That was the point.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

gdn said:


> Issue here today as well - Genie receiver connected to a Monoprice HDMI 1080P 1 in and 4 out splitter. The splitter is then connected to two TV's with HDMI. As of today I also get the copyright protection. I plug the Genie directly into the main TV and all plays just fine. Go back to the splitter and nothing plays.


Cheap splitters you buy off Monoprice or eBay generally do not have valid HDCP keys, so they may work at first but after a while have issues on protected video because the forged key has been revoked (I assume your 1->4 splitter is powered, if it is unpowered then it can't work with protected video)


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## Delroy E Walleye (Jun 9, 2012)

Well, the issue now is that all content seems to be HDCP, *including* locals and all cable channels. Issue may have been since the last update (roughly three weeks ago on my H25) and only coincidentally noticed today, or it just kicked in now.

Interestingly enough, streaming recordings to the H25 from the HR21 doesn't HDCP on regular cable channels, so far. But anything live tuner is HDCPd. Weird. Why now, all of a sudden...?

[EDIT] Confirmed that recordings made on Wednesday (regular cable channels) are *not* HDCP, but ones made Thursday (7/9) are indeed all HDCP.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

This might be a mistake on Directv's part, or perhaps a test to see how many people call in with issues. They've had to enable it previously for HBO (maybe other premiums?) and the Disney/ABC/ESPN family, but those are the only ones I'm aware of.

Maybe they've been notified that some other major groups of channels will be requiring it in the near future, and they figure instead of dribbling it out it is easier to just do it for everything now instead of waiting for the fall when new shows start, football, World Series, etc.

Once you reach a critical mass of channels that require it, it is probably easier to manage to just turn it on for everything.


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## ejbvt (Aug 14, 2011)

gdn said:


> Issue here today as well - Genie receiver connected to a Monoprice HDMI 1080P 1 in and 4 out splitter. The splitter is then connected to two TV's with HDMI. As of today I also get the copyright protection. I plug the Genie directly into the main TV and all plays just fine. Go back to the splitter and nothing plays.


Is it POWERED? If not... that's your issue. The cheap ones won't trick the system.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

slice1900 said:


> With no HDMI you don't have HDCP so there are no HDCP issues.


Could you explain this? I just don't get it.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

slice1900 said:


> Cheap splitters you buy off Monoprice or eBay generally do not have valid HDCP keys, so they may work at first but after a while have issues on protected video because the forged key has been revoked (I assume your 1->4 splitter is powered, if it is unpowered then it can't work with protected video)


We've been telling folks to use only powered splitters/switches for years. That I get, mainly because I bought unpowered HDMI switches at first and they never worked correctly. I still have some of them.

Rich
'


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

Rich said:


> Could you explain this? I just don't get it.
> 
> Rich


The HDMI systems talks to the machines that are connected on each end and decide whether they are compatible with each other and if they are HDCP compliant and what to do about it.
Component cables just send a signal, no discussions by the machines, therefore no HDCP.
One day, those people that started this mess will eventually stop the programming from being transmitted via Component.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

jimmie57 said:


> One day, those people that started this mess will eventually stop the programming from being transmitted via Component.


it has already started, blue ray players are limited to 480 on its component output, some don't even come with them any longer.

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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

ejbvt said:


> Is it POWERED? If not... that's your issue. The cheap ones won't trick the system.


It isn't "tricking" the system, it is working as designed. If you have a powered splitter or extender that has a legally licensed HDCP key of its own (or for a cheap powered one, a forged key until it is revoked) it forms part of the HDCP "tree". The standard supports up to seven levels deep and 127 devices, though common consumer equipment like Directv receivers can't support nearly so many.

http://www.digital-cp.com/files/documents/04a897fd-fef1-0eee-cdbb649127f79525/hdcp_deciphered_070808.pdf


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## ejbvt (Aug 14, 2011)

slice1900 said:


> It isn't "tricking" the system, it is working as designed. If you have a powered splitter or extender that has a legally licensed HDCP key of its own (or for a cheap powered one, a forged key until it is revoked) it forms part of the HDCP "tree". The standard supports up to seven levels deep and 127 devices, though common consumer equipment like Directv receivers can't support nearly so many.
> 
> http://www.digital-cp.com/files/documents/04a897fd-fef1-0eee-cdbb649127f79525/hdcp_deciphered_070808.pdf


Let's not get picky. It "tricks" it by doing what you said. If it wasn't a "trick" of sorts, it would work without a powered splitter.


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## 1948GG (Aug 4, 2007)

This problem, of even folks NOT using any HDMI connection on their HD-DVR's (for a variety of reasons, the biggest is that DirecTV doesn't make or provide non-HD DVR's at all any more, any many folks don't have HDTV's. and a number of them like myself use a HD-DVR to feed PIP systems on their HD sets which are SD-ONLY).

This has been coming and going (look at some of my previous posts) for the last 2-3 weeks, but yesterday it started hammering ALL channels (started out only on the MLB-ExInn 3 weeks ago, then 2 weeks ago only the the HD Extra channels like HDNet). 

Again, folks who are left with only being able to buy/rent HD-DVR's but have only SD TV sets (and like tuning into the HD channels for better quality) are stuck. I have had in the past neighbors with DirecTV but on SDTV's that had component inputs (in fact, I had such a set, a Panasonic, up until 2010 or so) that are now forced to tune only the SD channels - which sounds like 'no big deal', but remember, folks here and elsewhere have been beating the drum, and indeed DirecTV, to discontinuing SD channels left and right; a good example is the 'mix' channels for MLB ExInn which is now 'locked out' due to this over hammering of the HDCP system. 

Don't tell me or anyone else that they can get around this by simply buying an HD set (with HDMI inputs). A LOT of folks are on fixed income, moved to DirecTV from their cable competitors for one good reason or another, and until such sets get to the sub $100 level, it's not a good choice. Then at the other end are the various folks which posted in this thread with fairly large and complex systems that this move is causing grief. In my case, the 'grief' is simply that it means my Samsung HDTV plasma set, and it's wacky PIP system (no HDMI input, only RF NTSC/ATSC) requires that I take the SD output of a reciever/DVR and modulate it to 'channel 3/4' like the old VCR's. So now I have to watch and choose only the SD channel off the guide list unless I want to get the wacky 'message'.

Really not acceptable performance. If I was one of those folks with a SDTV and HD-DVR, I'd just about come unglued and start seriously thinking about moving back to cable.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

ejbvt said:


> Let's not get picky. It "tricks" it by doing what you said. If it wasn't a "trick" of sorts, it would work without a powered splitter.


Read the link. It is not a trick in any way, it is working exactly as designed. It is no more a trick than using a green label splitter to connect two receivers is tricking a SWM LNB. Unpowered HDMI splitters have never been supported with HDCP, they only worked before because HDCP wasn't enabled.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

1948GG said:


> Again, folks who are left with only being able to buy/rent HD-DVR's but have only SD TV sets (and like tuning into the HD channels for better quality) are stuck. I have had in the past neighbors with DirecTV but on SDTV's that had component inputs (in fact, I had such a set, a Panasonic, up until 2010 or so) that are now forced to tune only the SD channels - which sounds like 'no big deal', but remember, folks here and elsewhere have been beating the drum, and indeed DirecTV, to discontinuing SD channels left and right; a good example is the 'mix' channels for MLB ExInn which is now 'locked out' due to this over hammering of the HDCP system.


How are they stuck? If there is nothing connected to the HDMI output of the receiver, the composite and component outputs work just fine. It is only if you try to connect HDMI and composite or component at the SAME time that you run into problems.


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## inf0z (Oct 16, 2011)

1948GG said:


> This problem, of even folks NOT using any HDMI connection on their HD-DVR's (for a variety of reasons, the biggest is that DirecTV doesn't make or provide non-HD DVR's at all any more, any many folks don't have HDTV's. and a number of them like myself use a HD-DVR to feed PIP systems on their HD sets which are SD-ONLY).
> 
> This has been coming and going (look at some of my previous posts) for the last 2-3 weeks, but yesterday it started hammering ALL channels (started out only on the MLB-ExInn 3 weeks ago, then 2 weeks ago only the the HD Extra channels like HDNet).
> 
> ...


Why would you use HDMI on an SD TV? If you don't use HDMI cables this is a non-issue. Maybe I read this wrong but I'm not getting what your point is.


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## gdn (Aug 5, 2007)

ejbvt said:


> Is it POWERED? If not... that's your issue. The cheap ones won't trick the system.


This one is powered - it must be about the key it has on it. I'll have to research this switch more.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

slice1900 said:


> It isn't "tricking" the system, it is working as designed. If you have a powered splitter or extender that has a legally licensed HDCP key of its own (or for a cheap powered one, a forged key until it is revoked) it forms part of the HDCP "tree". The standard supports up to seven levels deep and 127 devices, though common consumer equipment like Directv receivers can't support nearly so many.


The point that people seem to be missing is the "forged key". If the cheaper device had a licensed HDCP key of its own it would not be an issue. But if the company making the cheap devices is not paying for the key eventually their customers will lose use of the device.

(It is similar to the way some people sold "lifetime" satellite service using cloned or otherwise illegitimate satellite receivers. The service worked fine for a while but eventually the illegal access gets caught and the service stops. Then the "lifetime" customer has to figure out another way (preferably legitimate) to view the programming.)

Summary: Don't buy equipment with a forged key.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

James Long said:


> Summary: Don't buy equipment with a forged key.


Good advice, but unfortunately it is impossible to tell as pretty much every one sold on eBay or private label brands like Monoprice use forged keys.The only way to be sure is to buy a quality brand name like Gefen, but they charge you for that assurance.


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## Delroy E Walleye (Jun 9, 2012)

So far as I can tell, the only SD channels to use HDCP are the Encore channels. But it doesn't take too much messing around to realize that the "channel surfers" (and others that are already having HDCP issues - especially those with custom setups) aren't going to be too happy with this most recent situation. It's slowing things down even more.

Fortunately for me, I don't do a lot of surfing anymore. But if I did, I'd probably use a "jimmy57-recommended" setup - component and separate audio, with only one or two resolutions checked, and *no* HDMI anywhere. (At least until the component output in HD is shut down and/or downrezzed completely, and I'm pretty sure that day is coming...)


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## 1948GG (Aug 4, 2007)

Wrong-no hdmi and still blocked, only svhs output in use on a hr22-100 and I get the hdcp message. Unacceptable.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

1948GG said:


> Wrong-no hdmi and still blocked, only svhs output in use on a hr22-100 and I get the hdcp message. Unacceptable.


This is what I'm trying to get clarity on and what coconut13 seemed to originally post about at the start of this thread.

Is DIRECTV turning off all analog ports, component, s-video, and composite, on it's HD receivers unless an HDCP compliant active device is connected to the HDMI port?

My brother has a second TV that stopped working by HDMI connection due to HDCP some time ago and has been hooked to an old HR22 via component cables only in his man-cave-bedroom hasn't reported any problem yet.

Should I tell him to get ready to swap out that TV?

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## jcwest (May 3, 2006)

Here's my setup.

HR21-200 in Master bedroom connected to the bedroom tv via component cables. Bathroom tv just through the back wall is connected via HDMI cable. Been using this setup since 2007 with no issues until this week.
Occasionally had this problem in the past trying to watch an HBO recording in the bedroom from the Genie box, but now it is ALL HD channels including OTA.

1. With both TV's on there is no problem, both will tune to any channel HD or SD.

2. Power down the HDMI unit (only on HD channels, SD work in any combination) and the component tv displays the "can not work" notice. Power up the HDMI unit and the component unit lights up like normal.

3. Unplug HDMI cable from the DVR and the component tv works perfectly. 

Can anyone recommend a powered splitter that will work with this setup?

Thanks
J C


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

1948GG said:


> Wrong-no hdmi and still blocked, only svhs output in use on a hr22-100 and I get the hdcp message. Unacceptable.


I am not awake or just don't remember seeing this ( svhs ). What does that stand for ?
Thanks


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

jimmie57 said:


> I am not awake or just don't remember seeing this ( svhs ). What does that stand for ?
> Thanks


sounds like S-video

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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

peds48 said:


> sounds like S-video
> 
> Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk


Yes, I'm sure that's what is meant.

"svhs" was the old abbreviation for the "Super VHS" videotape format.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

HoTat2 said:


> Is DIRECTV turning off all analog ports, component, s-video, and composite, on it's HD receivers unless an HDCP compliant active device is connected to the HDMI port?


It is the opposite. If you have an HDMI connection, the receiver will shut off the analog connections when flagged content is played.

If you don't have an HDMI connection, the content will play.

I don't think that HDMI certification provides for this but that's what seems to be going on.

The cause for alarm is that DIRECTV occasionally flags everything.


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## 1948GG (Aug 4, 2007)

harsh said:


> The cause for alarm is that DIRECTV occasionally flags everything.


Precisely what is going on now (or I should say what was going on yesterday, I'd have to go through major hoops to check what's going on today as I changed things around in order to get it to work).

I used the 'SVHS' designation as that's what DirecTV labled the port on the DVR; the more 'accurate' term is 'Y/C' or chroma-luma. There was no difference using that as opposed to the composite port ('composite' is the actual term for a signal where the chrominance and luminence are 'combined' into one multiplexed signal).

Be that as it may, DirecTV is causing a goodly percentage of their customer base grief. Enough already.


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## alnielsen (Dec 31, 2006)

jimmie57 said:


> Can you try this system and change to the composite connection ( red, white and yellow cables ) to see if it goes away ?
> Are you hooked up to an SD TV ?


Composite connection would be a one connector video cable and only displays 480. You are talking about a 3 connector RGB cable and that will display up to 1080i. As these signals are analog, the quality of the cable will affect the quality of the display. The cable that came with the reciever is of poor quality.


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## tadtv (May 12, 2009)

Called DirecTV today again about this HDCP issue and got the worst response from some bad attitude guy in technical support. Said they were not going to do anything about it and not to escalate the calls. His useless suggestions were to unplug HDMI cable and only use component. Won't work in my setup. Said I should be paying for Genie or mirroring fees. I told him I designed my "whole house" system before Genie and their whole house existed. In my setup, I'm feeding a main home theatre TV that's recessed into the wall, an HDMI cable. The component output of my HR22 is going to my tech room some 80 feet away to a component DA that then sends it out to nine more TVs. He said to get a receiver for each TV instead. When I said I have a monitor mounted in the wall of our powder room for guests and I joked "Am I supposed to put this new receiver on top of the toilet? And the idiot said "If thats what it takes". Great solution DirecTV to a 13 year subscriber. Has anyone had luck with the powered HDMI splitters solving the problem? If so which one. Hate to plug in another device into the wall to drain power but at least it's better than subscribing 5 or 6 new receivers.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

tadtv said:


> Called DirecTV today again about this HDCP issue and got the worst response from some bad attitude guy in technical support. Said they were not going to do anything about it and not to escalate the calls. His useless suggestions were to unplug HDMI cable and only use component. Won't work in my setup. Said I should be paying for Genie or mirroring fees. I told him I designed my "whole house" system before Genie and their whole house existed. In my setup, I'm feeding a main home theatre TV that's recessed into the wall, an HDMI cable. The component output of my HR22 is going to my tech room some 80 feet away to a component DA that then sends it out to nine more TVs. He said to get a receiver for each TV instead. When I said I have a monitor mounted in the wall of our powder room for guests and I joked "Am I supposed to put this new receiver on top of the toilet? And the idiot said "If thats what it takes". Great solution DirecTV to a 13 year subscriber. Has anyone had luck with the powered HDMI splitters solving the problem? If so which one. Hate to plug in another device into the wall to drain power but at least it's better than subscribing 5 or 6 new receivers.


Not sure why you are mad about. This was eventually going to happen, being with the current HD and def with 4K.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

tadtv said:


> Called DirecTV today again about this HDCP issue and got the worst response from some bad attitude guy in technical support. Said they were not going to do anything about it and not to escalate the calls. His useless suggestions were to unplug HDMI cable and only use component. Won't work in my setup. Said I should be paying for Genie or mirroring fees. I told him I designed my "whole house" system before Genie and their whole house existed. In my setup, I'm feeding a main home theatre TV that's recessed into the wall, an HDMI cable. The component output of my HR22 is going to my tech room some 80 feet away to a component DA that then sends it out to nine more TVs. He said to get a receiver for each TV instead. When I said I have a monitor mounted in the wall of our powder room for guests and I joked "Am I supposed to put this new receiver on top of the toilet? And the idiot said "If thats what it takes". Great solution DirecTV to a 13 year subscriber. Has anyone had luck with the powered HDMI splitters solving the problem? If so which one. Hate to plug in another device into the wall to drain power but at least it's better than subscribing 5 or 6 new receivers.


From what I understand, unfortunately the only sure way of getting around this HDCP issue is to run the HDMI output of the DIRECTV receiver though a HQ HDMI powered splitter like a Gefen.
http://www.gefen.com/kvm/dproductlisting.jsp?listingCategory=Splitters&productType=hdmi

But get your wallet ready if you do ...

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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

tadtv said:


> I told him I designed my "whole house" system before Genie and their whole house existed.


Don't blame the CSR because you didn't see (or chose to ignore) the writing on the wall. HDCP has been around almost as long as HDMI and DIRECTV put flagging off as long as anyone.

If SDI handled HDCP, you might have repurposed your coax runs but it doesn't. Converters or encoders won't pass HDCP. Backing up and doing HDMI over CAT6 STP with a HDMI matrix switch may be the best way out of this going forward.

Again, as peds48 notes, this is not a DIRECTV thing. This is a DMCA thing requiring that a complete chain of protection from duplication be maintained.

Note that this also extends to Slingboxen as the HDMI connected models won't stream (or pass through while streaming) flagged content.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

tadtv said:


> Called DirecTV today again about this HDCP issue and _*got the worst response from some bad attitude guy in technical support.*_ Said they were not going to do anything about it and not to escalate the calls. His useless suggestions were to unplug HDMI cable and only use component. Won't work in my setup. Said I should be paying for Genie or mirroring fees. I told him I designed my "whole house" system before Genie and their whole house existed. In my setup, I'm feeding a main home theatre TV that's recessed into the wall, an HDMI cable. The component output of my HR22 is going to my tech room some 80 feet away to a component DA that then sends it out to nine more TVs. He said to get a receiver for each TV instead. When I said I have a monitor mounted in the wall of our powder room for guests and I joked "Am I supposed to put this new receiver on top of the toilet? And the idiot said "If thats what it takes". Great solution DirecTV to a 13 year subscriber. Has anyone had luck with the powered HDMI splitters solving the problem? If so which one. Hate to plug in another device into the wall to drain power but at least it's better than subscribing 5 or 6 new receivers.


There really is no tech support available when you call. Better to ask your questions here, you're more likely to solve your problem.

Rich


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## GAM (Jun 3, 2007)

This device let me use my Slingbox with component cables while the TV is connected via HDMI. It removed the HDCP warning so I could use the Slingbox while the TV is off.

http://www.amazon.com/ViewHD-Powered-Splitter-1080P-VHD-1X2MN3D/dp/B004F9LVXC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1436807099&sr=8-1&keywords=ViewHD+2+Port+1x2+Powered+HDMI+Mini+Splitter+for+1080P+%26+3D+%7C+VHD-1X2MN3D


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## AngryManMLS (Jan 30, 2014)

I wonder how well something like that will work with a following setup:

HR25 Box
HDMI output is to Denon receiver then to Samsung HDTV
Component output is to Slingbox

In theory even with that box it should fake the DirecTV box into thinking it's outputting video to the HDMI as well so in theory that should work so I can use my Slingbox in peace.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

AngryManMLS said:


> In theory even with that box it should fake the DirecTV box into thinking it's outputting video to the HDMI as well so in theory that should work so I can use my Slingbox in peace.


I think you have it backwards. It is the presence of an HDMI connection that causes the component ports to shut down, not the absence. You have presence now with your TV so adding more HDMI devices isn't likely to change the situation.

Sling recommends that you connect your DIRECTV box via component to the Slingbox and use the passthrough to send component on to the TV.


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## AngryManMLS (Jan 30, 2014)

harsh said:


> I think you have it backwards. It is the presence of an HDMI connection that causes the component ports to shut down, not the absence. You have presence now with your TV so adding more HDMI devices isn't likely to change the situation.
> 
> Sling recommends that you connect your DIRECTV box via component to the Slingbox and use the passthrough to send component on to the TV.


You know I forgot I have a component pass through on my Slingbox until now so I'll use that. Since the TV in use is 720p anyways it's not like as if I'm worried about 1080p content.  Thanks for the advice much appreciated.

And you are right I did get that 100% backwards. Happens to the best of us.


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## pogo (Oct 31, 2007)

peds48 said:


> Not sure why you are mad about. This was eventually going to happen, being with the current HD and def with 4K.


What _I'm_ irritated (mad is too strong a word) about is:
This flagging is being done by D* not the copyright owner. I, like others built my distribution system long before there was
Genie or any of that stuff. Isn't it surprising that the one box that will still allow me to distribtue video throughout the house is the HR-34? -- if that didn't work it would kind of defeat the purpose of Genie, huh.. With respect to paying mirroring fees -- I do. I have three boxes all collocated in one room. I also pay for whole home service though I never wanted it. If this were really about protecting the content author's copyright, I'd understand. But it's not. IMHO it's about Directv enforcing their view of the correct way to do whole house video distribution. There's no occasionally about it. Everything is flagged on my HR-20 and HR-22. Lastly, I just spent an entire day a few weeks ago organizing the cable mess behind the medai center. Now I've got to rip it all out to use Component to the main TV so I can use composite output. That issue is unique to my setup, but it's still an irritation.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

pogo said:


> What _I'm_ irritated (mad is too strong a word) about is:
> This flagging is being done by D* not the copyright owner.


Right, at the request of the copyright owners. The belief that DIRECTV® is out to get you because you are feeding more than one TV off a STB is unfounded


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

It is not just Directv doing this. I've heard Cox has been flagging HDCP on every channel for a while now, at least in many of their markets. There are probably others. I'm sure Directv has been getting calls about this, and it costs them money to deal with, and there will be some people who will be unhappy no matter who is ultimately to blame who will switch to Dish or cable over it. Whatever they make from the small number of people who are sharing TVs off one receiver is outweighed by that, so it isn't going to make any money for them.

I think they just decided that rather than dealing with another group of people each time they have to add protection for more channels, they just did it for all of them to get it all over with. I read in a Tivo forum that some cable system (can't remember which, maybe FIOS) started flagging all the Fox network stuff (FS1, FX, FNC etc.) Maybe Directv got the request from them and just said "enough, let's do them all rather having to manage which channels are protected and which aren't"


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

pogo said:


> What _I'm_ irritated (mad is too strong a word) about is:
> This flagging is being done by D* not the copyright owner. I, like others built my distribution system long before there was
> Genie or any of that stuff. Isn't it surprising that the one box that will still allow me to distribtue video throughout the house is the HR-34? -- if that didn't work it would kind of defeat the purpose of Genie, huh.. With respect to paying mirroring fees -- I do. I have three boxes all collocated in one room. I also pay for whole home service though I never wanted it. If this were really about protecting the content author's copyright, I'd understand. But it's not. IMHO it's about Directv enforcing their view of the correct way to do whole house video distribution. There's no occasionally about it. Everything is flagged on my HR-20 and HR-22. Lastly, I just spent an entire day a few weeks ago organizing the cable mess behind the medai center. Now I've got to rip it all out to use Component to the main TV so I can use composite output. That issue is unique to my setup, but it's still an irritation.


Consider this. I bet less than 100,000 distribute tv around their house the way you do. This has nothing to do with that. It has to do with the 20 million customers and companies wanting their stuff protected. Just look at what they forced blue ray players to do!

I would not be surprised if part of the timing on this is due to DIRECTV getting every station available for in home streaming, and working towards getting them all out of home streaming too. Could easily have been a part of the negotiations for those rights.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Here is what is odd. I use composite video to feed PIP on my TV. The composite gets shut off UNLESS the HDMI is active, making the idea of PIP useless. The logic for this escapes me. Composite is a crappy 480i signal and yet they shut it down unless I am using an HD output at the same time. I am not trying to use component for the PIP source. Just crappy composite.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

tonyd79 said:


> Here is what is odd. I use composite video to feed PIP on my TV. The composite gets shut off UNLESS the HDMI is active, making the idea of PIP useless. The logic for this escapes me. Composite is a crappy 480i signal and yet they shut it down unless I am using an HD output at the same time. I am not trying to use component for the PIP source. Just crappy composite.


Digital vs Analogue quality does not factor into it.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

tonyd79 said:


> Here is what is odd. I use composite video to feed PIP on my TV. The composite gets shut off UNLESS the HDMI is active, making the idea of PIP useless. The logic for this escapes me. Composite is a crappy 480i signal and yet they shut it down unless I am using an HD output at the same time. I am not trying to use component for the PIP source. Just crappy composite.


It's because your HDMI is plugged in, and it knows it's plugged in, but can't tell what it's plugged in to. If it can't tell, it shuts it all down. Nothing to do with the composite at all. Unplug the HDMI from the receiver and it'll work just fine on composite out. It's all just ridiculous.


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## pogo (Oct 31, 2007)

inkahauts said:


> It has to do with the 20 million customers and companies wanting their stuff protected. Just look at what they forced blue ray players to do!


20 million customers wanted this? I understand - Content authors don't want anyone producing portable HD copies -- the obvious solution to that problem is to shut down the output which can't produce an HD copy.


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## pogo (Oct 31, 2007)

inkahauts said:


> It's all just ridiculous.


Amen to that.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

I expect that the SD version is tied to the component version and since they have chosen (or are forced) to shut down component rather than downscaling it, SD follows with it.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

inkahauts said:


> It's because your HDMI is plugged in, and it knows it's plugged in, but can't tell what it's plugged in to. If it can't tell, it shuts it all down. Nothing to do with the composite at all. Unplug the HDMI from the receiver and it'll work just fine on composite out. _*It's all just ridiculous.*_


Is it still really that much of an issue? Seems like with all the content out there that is easily accessed, they'd stop worrying about it. I can understand movie piracy, but D* content?

Rich


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Rich said:


> . I can understand movie piracy, but D* content?
> 
> Rich


There is an increasing demand for all types of shows right now, the fact that some are cutting the cord does not mean content is not being watched. With the ever increasing of software editing suits, editing sitcoms has become a reality for the regular Joe


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

They are probably trying to get people used to dealing with the hassle on HD so they won't squawk too much over the hassle on 4K. Since the HDCP 1.x master key was cracked, the MPAA knows the protection for HD content is not worth much, plus there is component out, etc.

They want to make sure 4K is protected from day one. It uses a different system (which they switched to after the first couple iterations were cracked, that's why 4K uses HDCP 2.2 and not 2.0 or 2.1) that should be much more resilient, and there are no other ways around it like component. If 4K is a hassle and HD isn't, it may hurt the adoption of 4K. So the answer in the MPAA's mind was to make HD as much of a hassle as possible before people start using HDMI on 4K hardware


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## kkl (Feb 11, 2007)

Would this problem be resolved by using an HDMI to Component Converter attached to an HDMI splitter?

DVR HDMI Out
↓
HDMI Splitter → HDMI to Component Converter → Component Device (e.g. Slingbox)
↓
Device HDMI Input (e.g. TV)

Converter Examples:
http://www.slingbox.com/HDMIConverter
http://www.amazon.com/Portta-PETHRV-Component-YPbPr-Converter/dp/B00J22LGYG?


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

kkl said:


> Would this problem be resolved by using an HDMI to Component Converter attached to an HDMI splitter?
> 
> DVR HDMI Out  → Component Device (e.g. Slingbox)
> ↓
> ...


There, fixed!


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

slice1900 said:


> and there are no other ways around it like component. I


Good observation, which then leads to the question if any 4K STB is going to carry component video.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

peds48 said:


> There, fixed!


But what's the need now for the HDMI to component converter in your "fixed" configuration?

As an option to hookup more devices via component connection?

Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

peds48 said:


> Good observation, which then leads to the question if any 4K STB is going to carry component video.


Component doesn't support 4K output and never will. Seems kind of pointless to offer a component out on a 4K STB, and if they did it would only work when viewing HD content. The licensing for HDCP 2.2 has heavy restrictions on analog output of downscaled 4K, which restrict it to a very low resolution comparable to composite output.


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## kkl (Feb 11, 2007)

peds48 said:


> There, fixed!


That didn't "fix" anything. My question still stands.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

kkl said:


> Would this problem be resolved by using an HDMI to Component Converter attached to an HDMI splitter?
> 
> DVR HDMI Out
> ↓
> ...


You need to have an HDMI Powered Splitter that is HDCP compatible. It will send the compatible signal back to the DTV receiver. From there on you should be able to use the items you referenced.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

HoTat2 said:


> But what's the need now for the HDMI to component converter in your "fixed" configuration?
> 
> As an option to hookup more devices via component connection?
> 
> Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


The HDMI to component converter was REMOVED from the operation, look again. The only thing needed is an HDMI splitter to keep HDMI alive.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

kkl said:


> That didn't "fix" anything. My question still stands.


Look again, carefully! The answer is there.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

slice1900 said:


> *Component doesn't support 4K output and never will.* Seems kind of pointless to offer a component out on a 4K STB, and if they did it would only work when viewing HD content. The licensing for HDCP 2.2 has heavy restrictions on analog output of downscaled 4K, which restrict it to a very low resolution comparable to composite output.


Well that is a given and known, my question was if a 4K STB are going the blue ray route, where either component is omitted or just relegated to 480i.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

peds48 said:


> Look again, carefully! The answer is there.


Are you suggesting that the "DVR Component Output" be connected to the "Component Device (e.g. Slingbox)"?
If so, having an arrow from an HDMI output to a component input does not express what you want to say.
If not there needs to be a better explanation of what you are suggesting.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

James Long said:


> Are you suggesting that the "DVR Component Output" be connected to the "Component Device (e.g. Slingbox)"?
> If so, having an arrow from an HDMI output to a component input does not express what you want to say.
> If not there needs to be a better explanation of what you are suggesting.


+1

Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

James Long said:


> Are you suggesting that the "DVR Component Output" be connected to the "Component Device (e.g. Slingbox)"?


right on. I did not make the sketch. I just made the right ( rough) corrections onto the existing one.

Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk


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## jkbs4208 (Oct 23, 2004)

I had this problem with my hr20-700 but not with my hr34. Both were connected by Hdmi for local tv and also component for distribution. Disconnecting Hdmi from the hr20 solved that problem but was not required for the hr34. Does this make sense? Will it eventually happen to thehr34 also?


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