# HR24-500 issues, replaced with a -100 and a -200



## mikelbeck (Oct 5, 2010)

I had a pair of HR24-500s installed a week or two ago, along with a few other receivers. Both of the HR24s were having problems - they would lock up, the screen would freeze and then a few seconds later they would reboot themselves. A tech came out today to replace them, he said that there was a "bad batch" from HR24-500s, he had replaced 3 others earlier today. Has anybody heard of anything like this?

He replaced one with an HR24-100 and the other with a -200. As far as I can tell there's no difference between them and the -500, I've read that the only difference is the manufacturer. Is that correct?


----------



## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

I have four HR24-500's, the last one was installed only a few weeks ago and none are having issues with rebooting. They have issues with 3D and MediaShare but not with rebooting.

The HR24-500 does use a different chipset then the HR24-100/-200's, so there are some differences with the software but operational/user interface wise they're all supposed to look/run the same.


----------



## mikelbeck (Oct 5, 2010)

I'm on hold waiting to talk to somebody at DirecTV again, one of the new boxes just did the same thing that the old box did... My wife is watching a show that she recorded, she paused it to take care of something and when she came back she wasn't able to re-start it. After hitting the "play" button a couple of times on the remote the unit rebooted itself. :-(


----------



## armchair (Jul 27, 2009)

mikelbeck said:


> I'm on hold waiting to talk to somebody at DirecTV again, one of the new boxes just did the same thing that the old box did... My wife is watching a show that she recorded, she paused it to take care of something and when she came back she wasn't able to re-start it. After hitting the "play" button a couple of times on the remote the unit rebooted itself. :-(


The f/w may be a bit buggy, still. I've noticed the play button rarely works to un-stick frozen video for me but usually the replay or 30skip works w/o any repetition. Maybe repeatedly pressing play button causes the frequent reboots others complain of?

I've seen a lot more video freezes than DVR lockups and reboots. Try using the replay or 30slip or skip and see if the reboots are more likely to be avoided.

IDK if this applies to your setup but you might also try component video cables as opposed to HDMI if the reboots are still persistent. Hopefully all work-arounds and suggestions will quickly become a fading memory.


----------



## mikelbeck (Oct 5, 2010)

armchair said:


> IDK if this applies to your setup but you might also try component video cables as opposed to HDMI if the reboots are still persistent. Hopefully all work-arounds and suggestions will quickly become a fading memory.


I'm willing to use component cables instead of HDMI but am not sure what I would need. I believe that in addition to the component cables for video I would need one for audio as well, is that correct?

A local store has a load of different cables available, with prices ranging from $15 to $100. Is there any difference between "enhanced", "professional" and "ultra" cables? Will the audio & video be comparable to what I'm currently getting with HDMI?

FWIW, I tried a different HDMI cable this morning to see if it was an issue with the cable and had the same lockup/reboot problem.


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

You do Not need to buy the most Expensive Component Cable such as Monster as it is a Ripoff and many will attest to this fact. I use a regular Best Buy Component Cable under their own brand name and it works great.

You will probably need a Digital Audio Cable for your Audio Transmission and again Best Buy has these.

Here is a Link to Bestbuy.com for the Rocketfish Component Cable.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Rocketf...p?id=1218177169189&skuId=9807246&st=Component Cables&contract_desc=null

Monoprice.com has the best deal if you can wait a week for shipping or however long it takes. Most people who are in the know about great deals on cables buy from Monoprice because they are cheaper and they work. There is alot of Snake Oil in the Cabling Business so Be Aware and don't waste your money on Hype.


----------



## mikelbeck (Oct 5, 2010)

richierich said:


> You will probably need a Digital Audio Cable for your Audio Transmission and again Best Buy has these.


By "digital audio cable" do you mean a Toslink cable? I'm connecting the HR24 directly to my TV, which I don't think supports DD or anything like that. Would I really need that type of cable for that?


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

You don't need Toslink if your TV doesn't support it. Just use RCA Analog Cables or whatever your TV requires.


----------



## mikelbeck (Oct 5, 2010)

Ok, good.

Thanks very much for the information.


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

But I would definitely look at Monoprice.com and you'll be amazed at their prices and their cables work great.


----------



## mikelbeck (Oct 5, 2010)

richierich said:


> But I would definitely look at Monoprice.com and you'll be amazed at their prices and their cables work great.


The HDMI cables that I have now I picked up from Monoprice. I'm going to pick up some component video cables today locally and see if that fixes the problem, if it does I'll order some more from Monoprice for my other HD boxes.


----------



## jdspencer (Nov 8, 2003)

I wonder if the latest update 0416 will help.
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=185888
No release notes yet.


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Hope everything works out okay for you!!!

Keep us informed.


----------



## mikelbeck (Oct 5, 2010)

jdspencer said:


> I wonder if the latest update 0416 will help.
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=185888
> No release notes yet.


Nope, I just checked the one receiver that locked up twice this morning, it updated to 416 at 3 AM and the lockups happened after 7 AM.


----------



## mikelbeck (Oct 5, 2010)

richierich said:


> Hope everything works out okay for you!!!
> 
> Keep us informed.


Will do, thanks for the help.


----------



## GBFAN (Nov 13, 2006)

Possible power or grounding issues?


----------



## jdspencer (Nov 8, 2003)

mikelbeck said:


> Nope, I just checked the one receiver that locked up twice this morning, it updated to 416 at 3 AM and the lockups happened after 7 AM.


Sorry to hear that. I guess I'll have to make sure I get the -200 or -100 when the HR20-100 finally quits (which is in the near future).


----------



## mikelbeck (Oct 5, 2010)

GBFAN said:


> Possible power or grounding issues?


The tech who was here yesterday suggested that as well. I tested the outlets that the receivers are plugged into and both check out fine. Note that there is one downstairs in my den and the other is up in the master bedroom. They are on different circuits altogether.


----------



## GBFAN (Nov 13, 2006)

How is the Dish grounded?


----------



## mikelbeck (Oct 5, 2010)

GBFAN said:


> How is the Dish grounded?


There's two pictures attached. One shows the bottom of the dish, the ground line is connected to the green screen.

The other picture shows the bottom, the ground line from the bottom of the dish is the black wire on top of the block (labeled "block"), and from there the green line goes to a spike that goes into the ground (labeled "ground").


----------



## mikelbeck (Oct 5, 2010)

Ok. On the TV in my den (the one we use the most) I've removed the HDMI cable and now have component cables. It hasn't locked up yet, but we'll be beating on it for the next day or so to see if it does. If there's no issues I guess I'll switch the other TVs to component cables as well. 

It's a shame that the HDMI cable solution doesn't work as expected, it's much easier to connect one than connect 5 cables. ;-)


----------



## Manctech (Jul 5, 2010)

don't know if it is the problem but unless that "ground rod" is bonded to the utility ground it isn't a valid grounding source.

Only a ground rod installed by a certified electrician bonded back to the house ground with a number 8 gauge ground wire is suitable. (Size may be incorrect)

edit: Similar reports

http://forums.directv.com/pe/action/forums/displaypost?postID=10772731

http://forums.directv.com/pe/action/forums/displaypost?postID=10740159

Second link points to having Dolby Digital 5.1 turned on.


----------



## west99999 (May 12, 2007)

yeah that doesnt look like the "proper grounding rod" you should have that grounded to the ground rod coming off the power because that looks like one of the 4 ft grounds that someone just pushed in you should have that grounded properly


----------



## mikelbeck (Oct 5, 2010)

west99999 said:


> yeah that doesnt look like the "proper grounding rod" you should have that grounded to the ground rod coming off the power because that looks like one of the 4 ft grounds that someone just pushed in you should have that grounded properly


Do you mean coming off the main house power? That's all the way on the other side of the house, should the installer have run a line over there?

The rod that's used now has been there for years, I think it was put in when I had Dish Network... and that was like 10 years ago.

I've got a tech coming out here Sunday to have a look at this problem, I'll ask him about the grounding issue then.


----------



## larryah (Jul 29, 2010)

I have had two HR24-500s for about three months, and have never had a reboot....not even a forced one. Had some slight audio dropouts at fist, but the update seemed to stop most of that. Also I use HDMI to the TV and optical to the receiver in the living room and HDMI only in bedroom. (no receiver...just TV sound) Both ger a lot of use.

And I dont buy the fancy cables either....paid $9 each fro mine on Amazon and they work great.


----------



## mikelbeck (Oct 5, 2010)

Ok, the problem isn't with the cables... I was sitting here watching the news. The video froze but the audio continued for about 30 seconds. Then without me doing anything at all (not touching the remote or the box) it rebooted.


----------



## Ancient1 (Feb 13, 2010)

Makes no sense to me that if the receiver is equipped with an HDMI outlet, you can't use an HDMI cable to connect to your system. Why does everyone think it is okay to go back to component cables? From the posts I have seen on various threads on this forum, it isn't a cable problem, anyway - the HR24 series appears to be very buggy, and D* doesn't seem to be doing very much to resolve the problems. The -500 model seems to be the worst, yet that is all that is available from any of the outside suppliers. I am in the market for a new receiver, but at this point, I am very reluctant to order a -500. Not really sure what to do. The HR23-700 I got through Amazon last year works fine (although admittedly pretty slow), but they aren't available any more. Guess I have to call D* and take my chances.


----------



## mikelbeck (Oct 5, 2010)

I had a tech out here today, I told him what was going on and he basically shrugged his shoulders and said he didn't know what could be wrong. I showed him the grounding on the dish and he said that should be ok. He spoke with his supervisor who suggested replacing the power injector since the HD DVR's "draw more power" than the other boxes. He told me that there's a guy at his place who "basically invented DirecTV" and would be in the office tomorrow so he was going to speak to him and would call me back tomorrow afternoon. 

On the plus side, I haven't had any of my HD24's freeze or reboot today. So maybe it was the injector...

Oh, BTW I switched back to HDMI on the box where I went to component cables.


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

mikelbeck said:


> He told me that there's a guy at his place who "basically invented DirecTV" and would be in the office tomorrow so he was going to speak to him and would call me back tomorrow afternoon.


Oh and I Believe that statement. Good Luck on that deal and let us know what the Name of this Guy Who Basically Invented Directv!!!

Now I have had alot of Smoke Blow Up My YouKnowWhat but this is RICH!!! :lol:


----------



## mikelbeck (Oct 5, 2010)

richierich said:


> Oh and I Believe that statement. Good Luck on that deal and let us know what the Name of this Guy Who Basically Invented Directv!!!
> 
> Now I have had alot of Smoke Blow Up My YouKnowWhat but this is RICH!!! :lol:


What, you don't believe that the guy who "basically invented DirecTV" would be working at a local DirecTV subcontractor? :lol:

The tech left me his cell phone number, if I don't hear back from him I'll call him and find out what his guru had to say.


----------



## mikelbeck (Oct 5, 2010)

mikelbeck said:


> On the plus side, I haven't had any of my HD24's freeze or reboot today. So maybe it was the injector...


Well, so much for that. It just locked up again.


----------



## alexginga (Dec 25, 2003)

Any updates?

I got HR24-500 installed 2 weeks ago myself as part of the DTV Connected Home upgrade. It gives me trouble - it freezes up every day at least once. I also have a H24-100 - it has worked without a single issue for the last 2 weeks..

I want to swap it for a HR24-100 or HR24-200 if this thing continues. Any more updates?


----------



## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

I have four HR24-500's and they don't lock up. I know that doesn't really help you just my experience so maybe it's something in your environment that's causing it?


----------



## mikelbeck (Oct 5, 2010)

No update yet... The tech who was at my house on Sunday called me a few times yesterday to set up another appointment but we played phone tag most of the day. I'm going to call him again this morning and will have something set up for today or tomorrow.


----------



## mikelbeck (Oct 5, 2010)

My wife just called and said that another tech is at the house. He's testing the lines that feed each of the DVRs that are having problems and he's told her that they're supposed to be receiving 6 "channels" but only appear to be receiving 4. Does this make sense? And if so what does it mean? 

FYI, one other thing that may be helpful to this situation... the power injector that was replaced on Sunday is in the master bedroom. The coax that goes to that TV was never replaced, it's the original from when the house was built 13 years ago, so it's probably RG59. All of the other TVs are using RG6 and have been replaced recently - either when DirecTV was installed or right before. Could this have anything to do with this problem?


----------



## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

mikelbeck said:


> My wife just called and said that another tech is at the house. He's testing the lines that feed each of the DVRs that are having problems and he's told her that they're supposed to be receiving 6 "channels" but only appear to be receiving 4. Does this make sense? And if so what does it mean?
> 
> FYI, one other thing that may be helpful to this situation... the power injector that was replaced on Sunday is in the master bedroom. The coax that goes to that TV was never replaced, it's the original from when the house was built 13 years ago, so it's probably RG59. All of the other TVs are using RG6 and have been replaced recently - either when DirecTV was installed or right before. Could this have anything to do with this problem?


IIRC, in a SWiM environment you might be able to get away with RG59 from the Power Inserter to the receivers but you needed the solid copper code RG6 from the PI to the SWiMLNB due to the power draw.


----------



## mikelbeck (Oct 5, 2010)

RAD said:


> IIRC, in a SWiM environment you might be able to get away with RG59 from the Power Inserted to the receivers but you needed the solid copper code RG6 from the PI to the SWiMLNB due to the power draw.


I'm really not sure what you've said there... can you dumb it down for me a little bit? I'm a technical guy but a newbie when it comes to all of the parts involved with this service.


----------



## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

You need to have cable with a solid copper core from the SWiM PI to the SWiM-LNB on the dish. RG6 should have a solid copper core, while RG59 does not. If you can, try to put the PI in a location where there is RG6 from the PI back to the dish.

- Merg


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

mikelbeck said:


> I'm really not sure what you've said there... can you dumb it down for me a little bit? I'm a technical guy but a newbie when it comes to all of the parts involved with this service.


The coaxial cable(s) connecting the SWM device to it's power supply (wherever it is located in your set-up) should be RG6.

EDIT: Like *Merg *said.  ^^^^^


----------



## mikelbeck (Oct 5, 2010)

Ah, ok. I get it now, thanks.

From the dish to the splitter in the basement is new RG6. 

From the splitter in the basement:
1. RG6 to the HR24 in the den (1st floor)
2. RG59 to the D12 in the dining room (1st floor)
3. RG59 to the D12 in the guest room (2nd floor)
4. RG6 to the H24 in my son's bedroom (2nd floor, new cable)
5. RG59 to the PI and then to the HR24 in the master bedroom (2nd floor)
6. RG6 to the DECA in my office, connected to my router (basement, new cable)

The unused ports on the splitter are terminated. 

If they don't replace the RG59 in connection #5 you're saying I should move the PI to either connection #1 or #4?


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

mikelbeck said:


> If they don't replace the RG59 in connection #5 you're saying I should move the PI to either connection #1 or #4?


:up:

Or maybe better still, to an unused port on your basement splitter. It will remove one splitter from you set-up, always a good thing.


----------



## mikelbeck (Oct 5, 2010)

Steve said:


> :up:
> 
> Or maybe better still, to an unused port on your basement splitter. It will remove one splitter from you set-up, always a good thing.


Cool, got it.

Just got an update from the wife, she said the tech tested some voltages and was only seeing 17-18 volts from the PI, he said it should be 20-21. So he's moving the PI down to the basement and will be connecting it directly to the splitter.

The one day this week I had some face-to-face meetings had to be in the office they show up at the house... any other day I'd be working from home and could be there with them. It's killing me that I can't see what they're doing and am getting this info relayed by my (non-technical) wife.


----------



## mikelbeck (Oct 5, 2010)

No issues last night, hopefully that's a good sign. I did notice that both HR24's seemed to have updated to newer firmware, though. I didn't note the version, I'll check it again tonight.


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Yes 0X418 went out last night at 3:26 A.M. on my 3 HR24-500s. 

I hope they fixed the Digital Audio Problem.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

richierich said:


> Yes 0X218 went out last night at 3:26 A.M. on my 3 HR24-500s.
> 
> I hope they fixed the Digital Audio Problem.


You mean you haven't tested it yet?


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> You mean you haven't tested it yet?


I mispelled 0X418. I am testing it right now and I haven't had an Audio Dropout yet but I need more time to test.

Can't believe that they finally fixed it so I will withold my thoughts and proclamations until I test this Puppy some more.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

richierich said:


> I mispelled 0X418. I am testing it right now and I haven't had an Audio Dropout yet but I need more time to test.
> 
> Can't believe that they finally fixed it so I will withold my thoughts and proclamations until I test this Puppy some more.


So where are the test results? *(Slacker)*


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> So where are the test results? *(Slacker)*


*Slacker* is Still Testing It because it doesn't Happen All Of The Time!!!

Patience Jackazz Patience!!!

Rome wasn't built in a day or two.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

richierich said:


> *Slacker* is Still Testing It because it doesn't Happen All Of The Time!!!


Likely only under the influence... :lol:

Say hello to your invisible friend for us... !rolling


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Likely only under the influence... :lol:


I Resemble That Remark as my Wife is Usually the One that *****es because of the Audio Switching as the Volume Increases Dramatically.

I swear I think it is Fixed because I have left it on and I am not hearing that difference in Volume.

Wouldn't that be Amazing?


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

richierich said:


> I Resemble That Remark as my Wife is Usually the One that *****es because of the Audio Switching as the Volume Increases Dramatically.
> 
> I swear I think it is Fixed because I have left it on and I am not hearing that difference in Volume.
> 
> Wouldn't that be *Amazing*?


Amazing no...sobering....??? Maybe.... :lol:


----------



## TBlazer07 (Feb 5, 2009)

west99999 said:


> yeah that doesnt look like the "proper grounding rod" you should have that grounded to the ground rod coming off the power because that looks like one of the 4 ft grounds that someone just pushed in you should have that grounded properly


While I have never ever had an receiver issues I have the same problem wrt grounding. I'm using a 5' copper ground rod. My dish/cable is on the complete opposite side of the house from the power entry. How do you deal with grounding under those conditions? There is a copper pipe from the the cold water supply nearby. Is that good enough? My home is over 60 yrs old so a lot of the wiring is still only 2 wire except what was added after 220 service was added after we moved in about 40 yrs ago.


----------



## mikelbeck (Oct 5, 2010)

mikelbeck said:


> No issues last night, hopefully that's a good sign. I did notice that both HR24's seemed to have updated to newer firmware, though. I didn't note the version, I'll check it again tonight.


So much for the problem being fixed, it happened again!

It's the same as it was before... the video will freeze, the audio will continue for 30 seconds or so and then stop. At that point hitting anything on the remote does nothing, the only option is to reset the receiver.


----------



## mikelbeck (Oct 5, 2010)

Ok, so the tech who was here the other day wasn't able to make it back here today. Over the phone he asked me to check to see if there was any voltage at the ground line (from the block out by the dish). I saw about 1-1/2 volts there, he said that should be 0 and "could" cause the receivers to lock up. So he asked me to disconnect the ground line from the block to the rod altogether and see if the problem goes away.

Comments?


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

mikelbeck said:


> Ok, so the tech who was here the other day wasn't able to make it back here today. Over the phone he asked me to check to see if there was any voltage at the ground line (from the block out by the dish). I saw about 1-1/2 volts there, he said that should be 0 and "could" cause the receivers to lock up. So he asked me to disconnect the ground line from the block to the rod altogether and see if the problem goes away.
> 
> Comments?


I've been a DirecTV customer for 8-9 years, and I've never had a grounded dish. After reading some comments on this site last year on why dish grounding was important, it scared the heck out of me, and I called DirecTV to complain, since they installed all my dishes.

When I didn't get what I thought was a satisfactory answer, my call was escalated and I was eventually put in contact with an installation "specialist" who explained to me why my Dish did NOT have to be grounded. Unfortunately, I no longer remember the technical reasons I was given, but I do remember being satisfied with his explanation.


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Well, Steve, I bet you will get alot of Installers chiming in on this Post to give us their views on the situation.


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

richierich said:


> Well, Steve, I bet you will get alot of Installers chiming in on this Post to give us their views on the situation.


I was surprised as anyone, after reading a few posts on the topic here, but it came from someone top tier at DirecTV, not a CSR reading from a script. Like I said, even though I can't recall the explanation, it made sense to me at the time. He explained it in laymen's terms, when I told him I was far from an EE.

Subsequent to that call, I had issues with 103 losing odd transponders and had two service visits related to that. Second time they sent a "specialist" out who isolated the problem to a bad LNB. Before that, I brought up dish grounding as a possible cause. He checked my set-up and said the system was fine from a grounding standpoint and also said there was no need to ground my dish.

My dish is on the peak of my roof, BTW, tucked right behind the chimney. Probably 30'-40' above ground.


----------



## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

Steve said:


> When I didn't get what I thought was a satisfactory answer, my call was escalated and I was eventually put in contact with an installation "specialist" who explained to me why my Dish did NOT have to be grounded. Unfortunately, I no longer remember the technical reasons I was given, but I do remember being satisfied with his explanation.


The "general" answer I've heard from several on this board, and now a couple of people at D* is "the dish doesn't need grounding because the receivers will complete the task." In some cases this is true (when a receiver has a 3 prong grounded plug), but most receivers do not have such a plug. I've also received the explanation that the coax shielding will ground through the receiver's neutral prong, but this is also incorrect (and would not be a valid grounding method.)

I'm not sure if either explanation was provided in your case, but I'd recommend grounding the dish going forward.


----------



## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

Steve said:


> I was surprised as anyone, after reading a few posts on the topic here, but it came from someone top tier at DirecTV, not a CSR reading from a script. Like I said, even though I can't recall the explanation, it made sense to me at the time. He explained it in laymen's terms, when I told him I was far from an EE.
> 
> Subsequent to that call, I had issues with 103 losing odd transponders and had two service visits related to that. Second time they sent a "specialist" out who isolated the problem to a bad LNB. Before that, I brought up dish grounding as a possible cause. He checked my set-up and said the system was fine from a grounding standpoint and also said there was no need to ground my dish.
> 
> My dish is on the peak of my roof, BTW, tucked right behind the chimney. Probably 30'-40' above ground.


Grounding is primarily a personal safety issue, and should have no effect whatsoever on the performance of the sat box (dish grounding, that is). What most people call "grounding" is so far from anything but a safety ground, that it isn't even funny. Safety grounds are for protection against electrocution from electrical problems....they do little or nothing for protection from lightning induced issues.

Safety grounds should be used, just not relied on for lightning mitigation.


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Well, a very knowledgeable person told me that if your system is not Properly Grounded then you could develop "Static Electricity Buildup" particularly during cold and windy conditions which can cause alot of unpredictable problems with electronic equipment.

I then remembered when my phones wouldn't work so I called Bellsouth on my cell phone and she said to Unplug all of my phone lines for at least 30 minutes. I was Very Skeptical but did it just so I could say I told you that wouldn't work but it did and then I found out about how "Static Electricity Buildup" can Disable or Cause Funky thing to happen with Electronics so I also installed APC Battery Backup/Automatic Voltage Regulation/Line Conditioning/Surge Protection UPS Systems on all of my Home Entertainment Systems.

I have had ZERO problems since related to electricity or voltage issues.


----------



## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

hasan said:


> Grounding is primarily a personal safety issue, and should have no effect whatsoever on the performance of the sat box (dish grounding, that is). What most people call "grounding" is so far from anything but a safety ground, that it isn't even funny. Safety grounds are for protection against electrocution from electrical problems....they do little or nothing for protection from lightning induced issues.
> 
> Safety grounds should be used, just not relied on for lightning mitigation.


I've seen some of your posts regarding grounding and agree that the concept of a "safety ground" is a poorly understood concept by most. In this context grounding the dish would be for static discharge, which alone can make a difference in regards to electrical equipment. There's also the rational that a coaxial cable is constructed to shunt interference to ground (through the exterier shielding.) If you've ever "played" with RF via coax, you'll "see" that a ground can be an extremely important aspect. I've got some first-hand experience with this (hint, look at my avatar )


----------



## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

richierich said:


> Well, a very knowledgeable person told me that if your system is not Properly Grounded then you could develop "Static Electricity Buildup" particularly during cold and windy conditions which can cause alot of unpredictable problems with electronic equipment.
> 
> I then remembered when my phones wouldn't work so I called Bellsouth on my cell phone and she said to Unplug all of my phone lines for at least 30 minutes. I was Very Skeptical but did it just so I could say I told you that wouldn't work but it did and then I found out about how "Static Electricity Buildup" can Disable or Cause Funky thing to happen with Electronics so I also installed APC Battery Backup/Automatic Voltage Regulation/Line Conditioning/Surge Protection UPS Systems on all of my Home Entertainment Systems.
> 
> I have had ZERO problems since related to electricity or voltage issues.


Precip or partical static bulld up does happen. It can be discharged through the ground provided by the shield of the coax, if the build up is not too great and the coax run is short and properly terminated at the far end.

A safety ground (which is far better/safer than relying on the coax braid/foil) will do a much better job of reducing static discharge.

An example of a safety ground for a dish is a short thick wire from the dish directly to a ground rod beneath the dish. One could also run a safety ground from the dish on a roof to the ground, as long as it needs to be. It would serve as a safety ground, but not much of a ground in terms of lightning mitigation, and the longer the wire, the poorer job of static discharge it will do.

UPSs are a very, very good idea! (I have six of them on my home theater setup alone).

All that said, I have never observed any sat box based static discharge issues in 15 years, and none of my dishes (two) are grounded. They are very low and protected from the elements. On the other hand, I can readily observe the bulid-up of precip static on my high frequency radio antennas, as well as on one high VHF/UHF antenna. The problem has a very, very clear signature:

Noise slowly builds up to a very high level, increasing from near nothing to many dB higher (like 100 dB) and then POP, drops to zero and begins rebuilding. This happens with a VERY thoroughly grounded system...it is not reduced by the grounding system one bit.

In summary: Safety grounds are a very good idea. They may help with minor static build-up issues. They do little for large ones, and are virtually useless for lightning induced problems.

A very important caveat: "Properly Grounded" is a big, expensive job, not to be taken lightly or casually. A simple wire from dish to ground is not even remotely a "proper ground". It is a safety ground that may or may not ameliorate static build-up. It is still very important to have one, in terms of not getting electrocuted.


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Excellent Post Hasan!!! Thanks!!!


----------



## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

hasan said:


> Precip or partical static bulld up does happen. It can be discharged through the ground provided by the shield of the coax, if the build up is not too great and the coax run is short and properly terminated at the far end.


A good post, but just to point out something about the above. Static dishcharge will occur in the above scenario "if" your coax is grounded. It is only grounded if a receiver, dish, or coax itself is grounded. Coax is not a ground in and of itself... So by default, if your receiver or coax is grounded, then your dish will also be grounded. Not anything remotely close to a safety ground of course, but grounded in the basic sense of being attached to an electrical ground...


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

dsw2112 said:


> It is only grounded if a receiver, dish, or coax itself is grounded. Coax is not a ground in and of itself... And if your receiver or coax is grounded, then your dish will also be grounded. Not anything remotely close to a safety ground of course.


That is what I have read in another post awhile back but as I am not privy to these things I find it interesting to read posts from those of you who are knowledgeable in this area of expertise.


----------



## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

dsw2112 said:


> A good post, but just to point out something about the above. Static dishcharge will occur in the above scenario "if" your coax is grounded. It is only grounded if a receiver, dish, or coax itself is grounded. Coax is not a ground in and of itself... So by default, if your receiver or coax is grounded, then your dish will also be grounded. Not anything remotely close to a safety ground of course, but grounded in the basic sense of being attached to an electrical ground...


That is correct. The braid/shield is a "ground" (of sorts, lots of caveats), if (as I said) it is terminated properly at the far end. That means it is connected to the sat connector, (and by virtue of same), it is connected to the chassis ground of the sat box. From there on, it is a function of a properly wired and functioning electrical outlet as you noted. Coax in and of itself, should *never* be considered a proper safety ground (because when you disconnect the coax....oooops!). While it is connected, it may provide some reduction in precip static build-up.

All of this precip/dust/partical (static build up) stuff can be very daunting. Size, shape, length and surface area of conductors all influence the potential for static build up. Reducing or eliminating its effects can be fairly easy (as with our low mounted dishes), or a real bear (my long HF antennas and high pointy VHF/UHF antennas).

I'll give you a graphic example. When I was 16 years old, working with my first HF wire antenna (33' on each side, fed in the middle with coax). We started getting a very heavy wet snow. I kept hearing a snapping sound coming from my antenna tuner box. I disconnected the coax from the tuner, and held it about 1.5 inches from my ground rod. Every thirty-five seconds a beautiful blue-white arc would snap from the center conductor of the coax connector to the ground rod. Very impressive to a young mind!

The snapping I was hearing before I disconnected was from the tuning capacitors (parallel plates) in the box arcing across the gap between the parallel plates (one of which was grounded). The capacitors were rated at 1500 volts...and they were arcing easily. It is no wonder, when I could make the static build up jump an inch and one-half gap, holding the coax in my hand.

I was able to track the intensity of the snow fall by graphing the time it took to build up to a discharge. As the snow rate decreased it took longer and longer for the build-up to get to the point where it would jump the gap.

Nothing like a spark show to pique one's interest in science.


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

And How Ignorant Are We As Far As Knowing And Understanding How These Things Can Affect Our Electronic Devices? 

I would say most don't have a Clue!!!


----------



## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

richierich said:


> And How Ignorant Are We As Far As Knowing And Understanding How These Things Can Affect Our Electronic Devices?
> 
> I would say most don't have a Clue!!!


You have taken the most effective two steps:

1. Safety Ground

2. UPS

You can't do much better than this without a large investment in labor and cash, and an adequate knowledge base on DC and RF grounding. DC grounding is fairly straightforward, RF grounding is much, much more demanding, and lightning induced damage has a large RF component.

N.B. If you have a piece of electronic equipment that you care about, put it on a UPS. It covers a myriad of other minor sins.


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

I have spent over $2,000 on all of my UPS Devices and alot of people would think I am crazy but I don't seem to have the Problems that others Experience because they are not Environmental Protected and Secure!!!


----------



## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

hasan said:


> The snapping I was hearing before I disconnected was from the tuning capacitors (parallel plates) in the box arcing across the gap between the parallel plates (one of which was grounded). The capacitors were rated at 1500 volts...and they were arcing easily. It is no wonder, when I could make the static build up jump an inch and one-half gap, holding the coax in my hand.


I must say that's very impressive!


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

dsw2112 said:


> I must say that's very impressive!


Very Impressive!!!


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

richierich said:


> I have spent over $2,000 on all of my UPS Devices and *alot of people would think I am crazy *but I don't seem to have the Problems that others Experience because they are not Environmental Protected and Secure!!!


Then again...we could start a poll. 

In the mean time...I thought we were talking about the HR24-500 and its brethern... :eek2:


----------



## mikelbeck (Oct 5, 2010)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Then again...we could start a poll.
> 
> In the mean time...I thought we were talking about the HR24-500 and its brethern... :eek2:


Right, back to the topic at hand...

So should I be worried about the dish not being connected to the ground bar?


----------



## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

mikelbeck said:


> Right, back to the topic at hand...
> 
> So should I be worried about the dish not being connected to the ground bar?


For electrical safety it should. As far as performance goes, not so much.


----------



## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

mikelbeck said:


> Right, back to the topic at hand...
> 
> So should I be worried about the dish not being connected to the ground bar?


Regardless of what side of the fence you're on (in regards to the grounding issue) it won't hurt, and I would definitely recommend it.


----------



## mikelbeck (Oct 5, 2010)

hasan said:


> For electrical safety it should. As far as performance goes, not so much.


Ok, good.

As for the tech saying that voltage on the ground line would cause my receivers to lock up - is there anything to that? It a little over 1 volt.


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Then again...we could start a poll.
> 
> In the mean time...I thought we were talking about the HR24-500 and its brethern... :eek2:


The thread starter's issue became a grounding question at post #54.


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

mikelbeck said:


> As for the tech saying that voltage on the ground line would cause my receivers to lock up - is there anything to that? It a little over 1 volt.


I'm now remembering that the "specialist" at DirecTV who told me my dish did NOT need to be grounded also told me that grounding it unnecessarily could actually cause a problem. Whether or not it's the problem you're seeing, I have no idea.

I remember this because I did ask him "why not ground it anyway, to err on the side of caution?"


----------



## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

mikelbeck said:


> Ok, good.
> 
> As for the tech saying that voltage on the ground line would cause my receivers to lock up - is there anything to that? It a little over 1 volt.


I missed that earlier, what'd you use as the reference point to check the ground?


----------



## mikelbeck (Oct 5, 2010)

dsw2112 said:


> I missed that earlier, what'd you use as the reference point to check the ground?


I tried a bunch of different things - the ground rod, the frame of the A/C compressor (sits on a patch of concrete), the metal conduit that the A/C wiring runs through... I got the same reading using all of them. When the green ground wire was connected from the grounding block to the ground rod there was a little over 1 volt on the green wire and the ground block. When I disconnected the green wire from the block there was about 12 volts on the grounding block.


----------



## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

mikelbeck said:


> I tried a bunch of different things - the ground rod, the frame of the A/C compressor (sits on a patch of concrete), the metal conduit that the A/C wiring runs through... I got the same reading using all of them. When the green ground wire was connected from the grounding block to the ground rod there was a little over 1 volt on the green wire and the ground block. *When I disconnected the green wire from the block there was about 12 volts on the grounding block*.


:scratchin

Something isn't right here... Without a ground wire attached to your coax ground block, and with one multimeter lead attached to the ground block and the other on a household ground, you read 12 volts?


----------



## mikelbeck (Oct 5, 2010)

dsw2112 said:


> :scratchin
> 
> Something isn't right here... Without a ground wire attached to your coax ground block, and with one multimeter lead attached to the ground block and the other on a household ground, you read 12 volts?


Yes.


----------



## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

Then there's likely voltage on a coax shield that shouldn't be there (there's a few other possibilities, but I'd start there.) I'd remove a coax line one at a time from the block and see if the problem disappears for starters. Check for a center conducter shorted to shielding, corrosion, etc...


----------



## mikelbeck (Oct 5, 2010)

dsw2112 said:


> Then there's likely voltage on a coax shield that shouldn't be there (there's a few other possibilities, but I'd start there.) I'd remove a coax line one at a time from the block and see if the problem disappears for starters. Check for a center conducter shorted to shielding, corrosion, etc...


There should be some voltage at the block from the power injector connected to the switch, no? What should it be?


----------



## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

mikelbeck said:


> There should be some voltage at the block from the power injector connected to the switch, no? What should it be?


Remember this is the ground side of things -- stray voltage can be ok; 12 volts not ok. The PI places voltage on the center conducter, not on the coax shielding (which is the same point electrically as the ground point of a ground block.) This would be a good point to ask where exactly are you placing the multimeter probe on the ground block?


----------



## mikelbeck (Oct 5, 2010)

dsw2112 said:


> Remember this is the ground side of things -- stray voltage can be ok; 12 volts not ok. The PI places voltage on the center conducter, not on the coax shielding (which is the same point electrically as the ground point of a ground block.)


Ah, ok. After work tomorrow I'll start disconnecting stuff and see when/if the voltage goes away.


----------



## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

mikelbeck said:


> Ah, ok. After work tomorrow I'll start disconnecting stuff and see when/if the voltage goes away.


It's likely to be the coax that goes into the home, but try both (unplug the PI power cord BEFORE disconnecting a coax on the ground block, then plug PI back in to take your measurement; unplug PI again before re-connecting coax.) You're likely to cause an arc between the center conducter and ground if you leave the PI plugged in during the process (that would be bad...)

Where is your PI in the scheme of things? It sounds like it was re-located to the basement, is it between the splitter and ground block or before the splitter? I'd look to the PI first; try unplugging and see if the voltage dissapates.

The problem could be introduced from many directions, so you might need to unplug a coax one at a time from your SWM splitter. Once you start to eliminate things you'll get a better idea of what's happening...


----------



## mikelbeck (Oct 5, 2010)

dsw2112 said:


> Where is your PI in the scheme of things? It sounds like it was re-located to the basement, is it between the splitter and ground block or before the splitter?


It's plugged directly into the splitter now.


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Well, my Audio Switching Problem was not fixed by the NR so I played around with it and finally switched out my Coaxial Digital Audio Cable for a Toslink Cable and now it is working Perfectly for 24 hours.

I will continue to Monitor it to see if it indeed Reverts back to Switching from Digital to Analog and then back to Digital and then back to Analog but if it doesn't my Conclusion is that all this time it was caused by a Bad Coaxial Digital Audio Cable!!! :hurah:


----------



## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

mikelbeck said:


> It's plugged directly into the splitter now.


On the power passing port right? Anything "upstream" of the PI (Receiver, DECA, etc?)


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

richierich said:


> Well, my Audio Switching Problem was not fixed by the NR so I played around with it and finally switched out my Coaxial Digital Audio Cable for a Toslink Cable and *now it is working Perfectly for 24 hours.*
> 
> I will continue to Monitor it to see if it indeed Reverts back to Switching from Digital to Analog and then back to Digital and then back to Analog but if it doesn't my Conclusion is that all this time it was caused by a Bad Coaxial Digital Audio Cable!!! :hurah:


Good to know and good to hear.


----------



## mikelbeck (Oct 5, 2010)

dsw2112 said:


> On the power passing port right? Anything "upstream" of the PI (Receiver, DECA, etc?)


I don't know, I didn't look at the splitter after the tech moved the PI down to the basement. I'll check it out tonight.

I *THINK* I have this switch (but am not positive):










I assume the line from the dish would go to the "IN" port. Where should the PI be connected? The red "OUT" port?

There is nothing upstream from the PI, only 1 port is connected and that's to the cable that goes to the splitter.


----------



## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

mikelbeck said:


> ...I assume the line from the dish would go to the "IN" port. Where should the PI be connected? The red "OUT" port?


That's correct


----------



## mikelbeck (Oct 5, 2010)

Ok, the splitter I have is the "SPLIT8MRV":










It looks like it has 3 "power pass" ports - the "in" and two of the "out" ports. The main line from the dish was plugged into "in", the line from the PI was plugged into one of the "out" ports that's marked power pass, and the line from the master bedroom was plugged into the other power pass port.

I checked the voltage at one of the ground terminals on the ground block, either the one from the dish or the one that would go to the ground rod and there was no difference in voltages.

The voltage at the ground block before doing anything was 14.6V. This was with the green ground line disconnected.

I disconnected the power from the PI and it was 13.1V at the ground block.
I disconnected the master bedroom line and it dropped to 0.11V.
I reconnected the master bedroom line and it went back to 13.2V.
I moved the master bedroom line to one of the unused ports (had a terminator on it), and the voltage dropped back to 0.11V.
I plugged the PI back in and it went back up to 14.8V.
I re-connected the green ground line to the ground block and the voltage dropped a little to 14.4V.

Then my helper had to leave so I can't do any more tonight. Tomorrow I'm going to disconnect everything from the splitter and then add them back one at a time and check the voltage to see if I can narrow down where it's coming from.


----------



## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

mikelbeck said:


> Ok, the splitter I have is the "SPLIT8MRV":
> 
> It looks like it has 3 "power pass" ports - the "in" and two of the "out" ports. The main line from the dish was plugged into "in", the line from the PI was plugged into one of the "out" ports that's marked power pass, and the line from the master bedroom was plugged into the other power pass port.
> 
> ...


That splitter has one power pass port (the top left "red" one); that port will feed DC to the "IN" port. Did you see corrosion on any cables, or shielding touching a center conducter?

Based on your info I'd take a close look at the master bedroom cable (staples through the cable, connector "issues", etc) but you're on the right tracking by disconnecting everything and adding them back one at a time. You might also try connecting the master bed coax feed to the sat feed directly (bypassing both the PI and splitter) to see if you can eliminate all else. You may even find that the master bed receiver is the problem. Too many variables right now, but you're getting closer.


----------



## mikelbeck (Oct 5, 2010)

dsw2112 said:


> That splitter has one power pass port (the top left); that port will feed DC to the "IN" port.


Oh, ok. I read the labeling wrong. However now I've got the PI connected to the 2nd port, not the power pass port. Guess I'll go fix that.



> Did you see corrosion on any cables, or shielding touching a center conducter?


None whatsoever. Most of the cables have relatively new connectors on them and they're all in good shape.



> Based on your info I'd take a close look at the master bedroom cable (staples through the cable, connector "issues", etc) but you're on the right tracking by disconnecting everything and adding them back one at a time. You may even find that the master bed receiver is the problem. Too many variables right ow, but you're getting closer.


Of course that's the only one that goes through the middle of the house, up to the attic and down through the wall. All of the others are either on the 1st floor or run along the outside of the house...


----------



## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

I did some editing while you posted, you might try this as well:



> You might also try connecting the master bed coax feed to the sat feed directly (bypassing both the PI and splitter) to see if you can eliminate all else.


You can also insert and remove the PI in the above configuration to further isolate... If it looks to be an issue with the master bed coax; unplug coax on both ends and check the resistance between the shielding and center conducter; you should read infinity.


----------



## mikelbeck (Oct 5, 2010)

dsw2112 said:


> I did some editing while you posted, you might try this as well:
> 
> You can also insert and remove the PI in the above configuration to further isolate... If it looks to be an issue with the master bed coax; unplug coax on both ends and check the resistance between the shielding and center conducter; you should read infinity.


Ok, didn't see that update until just now.

However, I was downstairs disconnecting everything and checking voltages at the switch. They were all over the place, with cables connected and disconnected. Then I re-connected everything, put it back in the ceiling and checked it once more and found that it was about 0.1V. I realized the corner of the switch - where the green ground screw is - was laying on the metal rails for the drop ceiling.... grounding itself, I guess.

Does the switch need to be grounded? Because it's not... just pushed up on top of one of the ceiling tiles.


----------



## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

mikelbeck said:


> Ok, didn't see that update until just now.
> 
> However, I was downstairs disconnecting everything and checking voltages at the switch. They were all over the place, with cables connected and disconnected. Then I re-connected everything, put it back in the ceiling and checked it once more and found that it was about 0.1V. I realized the corner of the switch - where the green ground screw is - was laying on the metal rails for the drop ceiling.... grounding itself, I guess.
> 
> Does the switch need to be grounded? Because it's not... just pushed up on top of one of the ceiling tiles.


.1V is good  Is that with the ground wire disconnected from the block?

The switch (really a splitter) doesn't need to be grounded, because the ground block is. As a result of the ground block, anything connected to the coax will be electrically grounded (not a safety ground though.) It may have been a connection issue and re-seating everything fixed it -- hopefully! It may also mean that you moved a defective cable in a way to temporarily mitigate the problem; in this case you'll likely see it again... Also, if the ground block is connected to ground you might just be "shunting" the voltage to ground. I'd double check this (with the ground cable disconnected) if you haven't already. Did you happen to check the resistance values on any cables?

In any case you've discovered why grounding is a good thing; it sends voltage (that inadvertently ended up in the wrong place) to ground where it can't harm your equipment or people


----------



## mikelbeck (Oct 5, 2010)

dsw2112 said:


> .1V is good  Is that with the ground wire disconnected from the block?


Yes, the ground wire was disconnected.

But it's only showing 0.1V when the switch/splitter is laying on the metal rail for the drop ceiling. Once I move it then it goes back to showing ~14V.

Let me go back and re-connect the ground wire to the block and see if there's any difference.

And no, I didn't check the resistance on any of the cables yet.

*UPDATE*: I re-connected the ground wire to the ground block and it's still showing ~14V at the block.


----------



## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

mikelbeck said:


> Yes, the ground wire was disconnected.
> 
> But it's only showing 0.1V when the switch/splitter is laying on the metal rail for the drop ceiling. Once I move it then it goes back to showing ~14V.
> 
> ...


Then you still have an issue, the only reason you're seeing .1V is because the splitter is "sending" that voltage elsewhere )via your drop ceiling... I'd recommend going with a simple setup; master bed line --> PI --> dish and see where that gets you. If there's voltage at the block then we can narrow it down in that connection.

Try the above with each room's coax (substitute master bed, for spare bed, etc.) and note the voltage change. This will help determine whether it's a particular coax, the PI, splitter, etc...


----------



## mikelbeck (Oct 5, 2010)

dsw2112 said:


> Then you still have an issue, the only reason you're seeing .1V is because the splitter is "sending" that voltage elsewhere )via your drop ceiling... I'd recommend going with a simple setup; master bed line --> PI --> dish and see where that gets you. If there's voltage at the block then we can narrow it down to something there.
> 
> Try the above with each room's coax (substitute master bed, for spare bed, etc.) and note the voltage change. This will help determine whether it's a particular coax, the PI, splitter, etc...


Ok, tomorrow. ;-)

If the dish, the PI and any of the coax are connected to the splitter, should there be ANY voltage at the splitter or the ground block?


----------



## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

mikelbeck said:


> Ok, tomorrow. ;-)
> 
> If the dish, the PI and any of the coax are connected to the splitter, should there be ANY voltage at the splitter or the ground block?


You should not see voltage on the chassis of the splitter or ground block. .1V is pretty much ideal, but that can vary slightly. What you've been seeing (12+V) indicates bad news :nono:

You are measuring DC right?


----------



## mikelbeck (Oct 5, 2010)

dsw2112 said:


> You are measuring DC right?





















I can't believe how stupid I've been... I've been measuring AC this whole time!

On the plus side, measuring DC at the ground block shows 50mV with the ground line connected.


----------



## mikelbeck (Oct 5, 2010)

Just for the record, I'm feeling extremely stupid right now.


----------



## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

mikelbeck said:


> Just for the record, I'm feeling extremely stupid right now.


:feelbette

It happens... This might be the point where you grab a cold alcoholic beverage :lol:


----------



## mikelbeck (Oct 5, 2010)

dsw2112 said:


> :feelbette
> 
> It happens... This might be the point where you grab a cold alcoholic beverage :lol:


I'm way ahead of you... LOL

After finding the voltage was correct I re-connected the ground wire to the grounding block. Within an hour one of the HR24's locked up again. I disconnected the ground again, and within 10 minutes the same receiver locked up once more.


----------



## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

mikelbeck said:


> I'm way ahead of you... LOL
> 
> After finding the voltage was correct I re-connected the ground wire to the grounding block. Within an hour one of the HR24's locked up again. I disconnected the ground again, and within 10 minutes the same receiver locked up once more.


Yep, not a ground issue... I'd get the D* tech back out -- the receivers have been swapped and so has the PI, it's time to ask "what else?"


----------



## mikelbeck (Oct 5, 2010)

dsw2112 said:


> Yep, not a ground issue... I'd get the D* tech back out -- the receivers have been swapped and so has the PI, it's time to ask "what else?"


Yep, I'll be calling him tomorrow morning.

The only piece that hasn't been replaced yet is the splitter. Except for the dish itself, of course.


----------



## mikelbeck (Oct 5, 2010)

I haven't had a chance to call the tech back, I asked my wife to call this afternoon. In the meantime I got on Twitter and wrote:

"@DirecTV! I've got two HR24s locking up. Tech support can't help, techs come and can't fix it. Firmware? Any idea when this will be fixed?"

Within an hour my home phone was ringing with DirecTV wanting to know who was tweeting about them... my wife had no idea what they were talking about so they had to explain it. 

The end result is they're going to assign a "case manager" to this issue and hopefully get it all worked out.


----------



## mikelbeck (Oct 5, 2010)

So... the DirecTV case manager said that they were going to send a tech who knew DirecTV inside and out, and had "many years of experience". Friday afternoon, the same 20-something year old tech who was here the week earlier showed up. As soon as he walked in the door he said he remembered this job and had no idea what the problem could be.

He poked around a bit, checked to make sure everything was connected properly and then told me he was out of ideas. He got on the phone with somebody and relayed the problem... and bunch of "unh-huh's" later he declared that the 8-port splitter that I have is no good. He said that "they are all bad" so he replaced it with 2 - 4 port splitters. He also re-checked all of the cables in the basement, then came up and had a look at the receiver in my den. He saw that it was plugged into a surge suppressor and told me that they go bad after about a year and would have to be replaced, so until I replaced it I should plug the receiver directly into the wall. I told him that I work in IT and use surge suppressors all the time and have never heard that they go bad after a year, he said that the "HR24s are more sensitive than any other electronic equipment out there" and plugged it into the wall. Once he left I plugged it back into the surge suppressor. 

On the up side, I haven't had any of the receivers lock up since he left, so maybe there was a problem with the splitter. On the down side, he's a pompous doofus and if they have to send somebody out here again I'm going to ask that they don't send him.


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

He is crazy about Surge Protectors as I have Battery Backup Units on all of my DVRs. Two have APC Battery Backup, Surge Protection, Automatic Voltage Regulation and Line Conditioning and I hardly ever have Reboots or Hiccups or Pixellation.

Alot of people experience momentarty outages where their DVR Reboots which is not a "Graceful Shutdown and Reboot' and that is Bad for Hard Drives. I avoid all of that nonsense and I protect my electronic equipment the best way I can.


----------



## mikelbeck (Oct 5, 2010)

I'm probably going to jinx myself, but I'm going to say that I haven't had any problems since the tech was here on Friday and replaced the 8 port splitter with 2 x 4 port splitters. 

I got a call from the DirecTV "case manager" yesterday. She said that the tech had canceled my service call for last Friday because of "safety issues". I'm not sure what that's about, and she wasn't able to provide any more information. I told her that the tech was there and what he had done, she said she was going to keep the case open until next week and I should call immediately if I have any more problems.


----------



## Sea bass (Jun 10, 2005)

richierich said:


> He is crazy about Surge Protectors as I have Battery Backup Units on all of my DVRs. Two have APC Battery Backup, Surge Protection, Automatic Voltage Regulation and Line Conditioning and I hardly ever have Reboots or Hiccups or Pixellation.
> 
> Alot of people experience momentarty outages where their DVR Reboots which is not a "Graceful Shutdown and Reboot' and that is Bad for Hard Drives. I avoid all of that nonsense and I protect my electronic equipment the best way I can.


Amen! I have my trusty APC protecting all my electronics. I am shocked (pun intended) with how many people don't use a UPS and figure they are protected with a power bar.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Sea bass said:


> Amen! I have my trusty APC protecting all my electronics. I am shocked (pun intended) with how many people don't use a UPS and figure they are protected with a power bar.


Agreed.

Investing all those many hundreds or many thousands of $$$ on equipment, only to put a $9 walmart surge protector as the only safety measure seems like a foolish move. You can now get decent UPS power protection on sale for under $40 in many places.


----------



## mikelbeck (Oct 5, 2010)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Agreed.
> 
> Investing all those many hundreds or many thousands of $$$ on equipment, only to put a $9 walmart surge protector as the only safety measure seems like a foolish move. You can now get decent UPS power protection on sale for under $40 in many places.


Can the receiver communicate with the UPS? I can see how it would be good to have one for momentary outages or short-term but what happens if there's a longer power outage and the UPS battery runs out? It's just going to kill the power to the receiver anyway...


----------



## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

mikelbeck said:


> Can the receiver communicate with the UPS? I can see how it would be good to have one for momentary outages or short-term but what happens if there's a longer power outage and the UPS battery runs out? It's just going to kill the power to the receiver anyway...


I haven't seen a STB<->UPS interface available yet.

I have UPS's on all my video/audio and computer hardware and yes if it's an extended outage you'll still lose power. But it sure helps when you have those quick (like under 1 second) power hit, everything just keeps running.


----------



## mikelbeck (Oct 5, 2010)

RAD said:


> I haven't seen a STB<->UPS interface available yet.
> 
> I have UPS's on all my video/audio and computer hardware and yes if it's an extended outage you'll still lose power. But it sure helps when you have those quick (like under 1 second) power hit, everything just keeps running.


Right, that makes sense. I thought you guys were all saying to use the UPS for all outages, not just short-term.

I have APC surge suppressors now, I'm looking into getting a couple of small UPSs.


----------



## mws192 (Jun 17, 2010)

I ordered a HR24-500 (as so it says on my receipt) from Hi-Def Lifestyle through Amazon and I got an HR24-200. Any cause for concern before I activate it?

I can't seem to find anything comparing the two other than one small post on the first page of this thread.


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

You're better off with the HR24-200 as it doesn't have some of the Problems that the older HR24-500 has.


----------



## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

mws192 said:


> I ordered a HR24-500 (as so it says on my receipt) from Hi-Def Lifestyle through Amazon and I got an HR24-200. Any cause for concern before I activate it?
> 
> I can't seem to find anything comparing the two other than one small post on the first page of this thread.


Go with the HR24-200. Functionally they're the same as the HR24-500's but doesn't have some of the software issues that the current national release software hasn't corrected yet.


----------

