# Where does one cash in his or her coupons?



## samhevener (Feb 23, 2006)

I clicked on the FCC website to find retailers in my area that sell the converter boxes, not one retailer is listed. I've never seen one for sale at my local Walmart. Are any converter boxes out there that I can get without driving 20 miles? The FCC site lists the coupons as expiring in 90 days after issued. Is this going to be the same game as the government played with the 9-11 passport deadline. One delay after another because the passports couldn't be issued by the first and second deadline. If the public is lucky the deadline will be pushed well into 2012 or later.


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## samhevener (Feb 23, 2006)

SDTV with 3 minutes of commericals very 10 minutes will always be better than HDTV with 4 minutes of commericals every 5 minutes.


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## Cholly (Mar 22, 2004)

You are about six months premature in your search. For the most part, the converter boxes haven't hit the market.
Regarding the converter boxes: are you aware that they are for over the air reception only? In other words, they are intended for folks who receive TV via antenna, as opposed to cable or satellite. In other words, local channels only.

As to the deadline for the digital transition -- the date is firm. No more delays. The FCC chairman reaffirmed this last week.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Walmart will have models for sale as will practically everyone at some point.

The first announced converter that is coupon eligible is the Echostar TR-40 also branded by SlingMedia. After coupon, it will be free.

RCA has also announced a unit, the DTA-800? that I haven't seen pricing on yet.

And I don't know when either will hit stores. Just soon.

cheers,
Tom


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I was very very impressed with the TR-40 I saw at CES. I'm recommending this product to everyone I know for two reasons, it's pretty much free and it seems very solid. 

I saw several other converters from Chinese OEMs looking for someone to sell them here. That tells me you'll see them in Wal-Marts and Rite Aids soon enough.


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## jkane (Oct 12, 2007)

Watch Ron White's show. He explains coupon use better than anyone else I've heard.


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## chrpai (Oct 27, 2007)

I'm curious if this will drive down the price of HD ATSC receivers. The ones the coupons are valid for can only support down converting to SDTV. I have three HDTV's and only 1 of them supports ATSC. It would be nice to get OTA on the other two without DirecTV's help ( HR20 and H20 ) but I can't see spending $150 each to do it.


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## Cholly (Mar 22, 2004)

chrpai said:


> I'm curious if this will drive down the price of HD ATSC receivers. The ones the coupons are valid for can only support down converting to SDTV. I have three HDTV's and only 1 of them supports ATSC. It would be nice to get OTA on the other two without DirecTV's help ( HR20 and H20 ) but I can't see spending $150 each to do it.


The FCC's intent was to provide a means of obtaining an OTA analog signal for old analog TV's where people couldn't receive satellite or cable -- not to provide an HD digital signal.


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## samhevener (Feb 23, 2006)

I have two TVs connected to dish but one TV with rabbit ears. I want the coupon for the rabbit ear TV as like a lot of people, I don't have all my TVs connected to the dish. The FCC chairman doesn't run the show, Congress does. I still say there will be a several year delay on the SDTV shutdown. As soon as the public starts having problems with the changeover, Congress will get an earful and will save millions of Americans with a delay. Let the multi-billion dollar TV broadcasters continue to operate two transmitters.


Cholly said:


> You are about six months premature in your search. For the most part, the converter boxes haven't hit the market.
> Regarding the converter boxes: are you aware that they are for over the air reception only? In other words, they are intended for folks who receive TV via antenna, as opposed to cable or satellite. In other words, local channels only.
> 
> As to the deadline for the digital transition -- the date is firm. No more delays. The FCC chairman reaffirmed this last week.


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## Cholly (Mar 22, 2004)

samhevener said:


> I have two TVs connected to dish but one TV with rabbit ears. I want the coupon for the rabbit ear TV as like a lot of people, I don't have all my TVs connected to the dish. The FCC chairman doesn't run the show, Congress does. I still say there will be a several year delay on the SDTV shutdown. As soon as the public starts having problems with the changeover, Congress will get an earful and will save millions of Americans with a delay. Let the multi-billion dollar TV broadcasters continue to operate two transmitters.


You don't seem to understand. Congress mandated the changeover date. As of Feb. 18, 2009, *alll full power analog TV stations are required by law to go dark.* The digital transition was originally scheduled for 2006, and Congress changed the date because broadcasters needed more time to install digital transmitters. Congress is on record that no additional delay will be forthcoming.

See the following info on the Digital Television Transition and Public Safety Act for more information:
http://www.dtv.gov/DTVAct.pdf

As to the multi-billion dollar TV broadcasters -- that may refer to the networks, but individual stations are not in the billion dollar category, and many of them have strained their resources in order to be in compliance.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

Samhevener - you've been told more than once (including by me) that any further delay is not going to happen. The analog turn off date for full power stations is in stone. I dare say you'll be one of the fools on Feb 19, 2009 saying "I didn't think they would actually do it - now I can't get any OTA television". And I'm going to have a good laugh at your expense about it.

I did manage to convince another person that DTV was really coming, and that the picture experiance was clearly worth it. He took me up on that challenge, and now he is enjoying HDTV.

BTW - that gentlemen has MS and is confined to a wheelchair, and is living on government disability. He managed to find the money for his HDTV .


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Bookmark this post and see if I'm right:

Hear me now and believe me later— February 19, 2009 there will be no analog television broadcasting in the United States. The Shadow Knows.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

I wouldn't go THAT far Stuart - you still have the low power stations and translators to deal with also, and some of the full power stations may have some technical problems initially, but it won't be very long after that date.


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## mengel (Oct 27, 2007)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Bookmark this post and see if I'm right:
> 
> Hear me now and believe me later- February 19, 2009 there will be no analog television broadcasting in the United States. The Shadow Knows.


Didn't the Shadow die in 1985?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_B._Gibson

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shadow

Great stories! I'm still reading through my entire collection, this time starting with the very first one.


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## Dave (Jan 29, 2003)

Actually alot of people have already ordered the coupons from the Government. They start shipping them out to the public in February 2008. So this means the boxes are already sitting in the big box store warehouses waiting on delivery to the piblic. Look for the BB, CC, Walmart, Kmart, etc. etc. ads to start being aired the first to middle part of Feb. Remember they do have a 90 day period to be cashed in or used.


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## peter atchley (Apr 1, 2006)

According to www.dtv2009.gov, the coupons will not be mailed out until late February or early March, since the converters are not expected to be available until then. You can apply for the coupons now, however.


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## samhevener (Feb 23, 2006)

We will all see what happens.


scooper said:


> Samhevener - you've been told more than once (including by me) that any further delay is not going to happen. The analog turn off date for full power stations is in stone. I dare say you'll be one of the fools on Feb 19, 2009 saying "I didn't think they would actually do it - now I can't get any OTA television". And I'm going to have a good laugh at your expense about it.
> 
> I did manage to convince another person that DTV was really coming, and that the picture experiance was clearly worth it. He took me up on that challenge, and now he is enjoying HDTV.
> 
> BTW - that gentlemen has MS and is confined to a wheelchair, and is living on government disability. He managed to find the money for his HDTV .


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

As a matter of fact it has been escalated at the behest of the TV stations. 

They now have permission to go dark on analog BEFORE the February 2009 mandatory shut off date.


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## samhevener (Feb 23, 2006)

It ain't over till it's over. Let one of those stations go dark early and the local Congressman's phones would be ringing off the hook.


Jim5506 said:


> As a matter of fact it has been escalated at the behest of the TV stations.
> 
> They now have permission to go dark on analog BEFORE the February 2009 mandatory shut off date.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

I don't expect most of them to start going dark until Jan2009, but the vast majority of full power analog stations WILL go dark by D-Day.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

The ones most likely to go dark early, AFAIK, are those that will be flash cutting from NTSC to ATSC because they couldn't get a frequency assignment for testing or digital. They are in a world of hurt and will have lots of small nitely cutovers to test things in time.

Cheers,
Tom


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## samhevener (Feb 23, 2006)

You are all under estimating the power of the American people. I have learned that Americans resist major change with a vengence. Most Americans don't know about the changeover yet. When they do, the Congressman's phones are going to be ringing off the hooks. There are all types of other problems that can happen. Adapter boxes backordered or not in your local stores by switchovertime. Adapter boxes with design problems that not working properly. Adaper boxes that are overpriced (You can now buy a labor intensive electro-mechanical DVD with a remote for $19.00 to $29.00 including all the cables required. Why should a lower labor cost all electronic box cost more? Adapter boxes that don't supply all the cables required for operation (an extra cost item). Poorer reception with the box than before. A serious recession with very high employment just about switchover time. Many Americans will be looking for jobs not adapter boxes. Four years ago the head of Homeland Security and Congress set a firm date of Jan 1, 2008 that all Americans and Canadians crossing our northern and western (with Alaska) borders will be required to have a passport. This was a top priority to stop terrorists from entering the country. Well so much for firm dates. Americans started calling their Congressmen about problems getting passports, etc, etc. Quesswhat? Starting Jan 31, all you need is a drivers license and birth certificate, just about the same items as were needed (if asked) before 9-11. All kinks of things can happen between now and Feb 19, 2008, don't be too quick to say it is a sure thing. QUOTE=scooper;1399742]I don't expect most of them to start going dark until Jan2009, but the vast majority of full power analog stations WILL go dark by D-Day.[/QUOTE]


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

The only people around here who aren't aware of the change are those who don't watch our locals - Now as to how many of them understand that they will need converter boxes or new TVs with the digital tuner - I can't answer that one. Possibly the connection won't be made until the stations go dark and someone has to explain it to them. But the PSAs I've seen locally are making the point.


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## samhevener (Feb 23, 2006)

I'm retired and walk several miles at the local mall in the mornings with the mall walking group. Most are retired and don't have cable or satellite. When I mention about the changeover not one person knows what I am talking about. That includes a retired engineer from TV3 in Cleveland, who retired 15 years ago. I see nothing but problems ahead. Things I have mentioned before plus other problems. How about the idea of giving coupons only to those who don't have cable or satellite and the limited number of coupons. Just because you have the cable/satellite today it doesn't mean you will have it on Feb 19, 2009. We all know a very severe recession is coming. Many who have cable/satellite now will cancel when they lose their jobs or have their pay cutback. Maybe it will be too late for them to get coupons the way the plan is now set up. I can see the headlines in the newspapers. "Unemployed forced to pay for adapters while megabillion dollar broadcasters shut down transmitters!" Viewers who can no longer can afford cable/satellite forced to pay for adapters in order to use something that they have had for years. The changeover was a dumb plan from the beginning. Adapter coupons should be sent to everyone in the country. The shudown date should be AFTER 85% of Americans have OPERATING adapters installed and working. Instead the date was set before (I think) there were any operating adapters on the market. I don't think any normal viewer has yet installed an operating adapter. Bad plan all the way around. The emergency responders and cell phone companies can wait a little longer.


scooper said:


> The only people around here who aren't aware of the change are those who don't watch our locals - Now as to how many of them understand that they will need converter boxes or new TVs with the digital tuner - I can't answer that one. Possibly the connection won't be made until the stations go dark and someone has to explain it to them. But the PSAs I've seen locally are making the point.


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## Cholly (Mar 22, 2004)

Sam -- you have pushed the panic button way too early. As of today, there are almost 13 months before the changeover occurs. Yes, there is a huge part of the population who aren't aware of the loss of over the air analog TV next year. However, prepare yourself for a media blitz in advance of the changeover, both over the air and in the newspaper. You and your mall walking friends will be well informed. (Congratulations on your walking, by the way. It's great for your health. I'm unable to walk that much due to a shattered ankle).

The examples you've cited are based on "fear, uncertainty and doubt". You hav no idea of the potential cost of converter boxes and the $40 coupons are bound to offset most, if not all, of the cost. As to connecting cables possibly not being included -- you can go to Wal-Mart, K Mart, Target or the dollar store and get the necessary cables for well under ten dollars. As to coupone: two per household are to be distributed. More than half will be available to anyone. Some will be held back and distributed to people in areas that don't have cable or satellite access.
For people who are in cable areas and are on limited income, basic cable is available at less than ten dollars a month. Finally: your comment about "megabillion dollar broadcasters" is ill informed at best. Yes, the networks and some multi-station owners are billion dollar plus enterprises, but individually owned local TV stations are not. The networks themselves are limited as to the number of stations they can own and operate. 

Believe me -- the transition will take place next February despite the complaints of folks who don't have newer TV's capable of receiving digital channels.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

Sam - as cholly said - prepare for a media blitz addressing that "lack of knowledge", as you put it.

Starting Feb 18, EVERY broadcaster will be required to air 2 PSA (Public Service Announcements) daily, one during prime time, clear until analog is shut off. That is, if they aren't already doing them (several larger markets already are, such as Raleigh-Durham NC and Kansas City that I know of - it would not surprise me if there are others as well).

And yes - I share cholly's view that you are going on FUD - the best way to counter FUD is to let the people know. You are in a position to educate your fellow walkers - get to it, man ! It sounds like they need it. Maybe make up a t-shirt that says "Ask me about the DTV transition" and wear it while you're walking.


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## RabbitEar (Jan 20, 2008)

You know this discussion is about the same as "those folks" who still pay rent to the phone company for their old telephones. Hard to beleive in this day and age that everyone doesn't know that you can buy a landline phone cheaper than to rent it....and those who have rented all these years have paid a hefty price.


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## MyDogHasFleas (Jan 4, 2007)

RabbitEar said:


> You know this discussion is about the same as "those folks" who still pay rent to the phone company for their old telephones. Hard to beleive in this day and age that everyone doesn't know that you can buy a landline phone cheaper than to rent it....and those who have rented all these years have paid a hefty price.


I handled this for my 90-year-old mother-in-law. She got a letter from AT&T last year (or maybe the year before, or maybe it was Verizon) telling her she could return her phones at any store, and that she was owed several hundred dollars for being overcharged all those years. This was in Upstate New York. Makes me wonder if someone filed or threatened a class action lawsuit.


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

Since OTA only TV watchers are in the minority I don't expect a huge outcry that will mean more to congress than the cash influx from auctioning off the airwaves.


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

OTA viewers won't complain until it's gone.

It will be too late because the equipment will be already being dismantled, disconnected and destroyed.


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## samhevener (Feb 23, 2006)

I agree that there will be a media blitz, 100% filtered and biased "pro shutdown" on TV, the anti-shutdown comments will come printed the print media. I still say many of the "problems" I wrote about the past several days will happen, not all but some. Don't get me wrong, there will be a shutdown but it won't be 100% on Feb 19,2009. A more fair way to shutdown SD would be to shutdown completely when 85% of the population has the adapters installed and operating. ON Feb 19, 2009, if 85% don't have operating adapters, shut down SD ONLY from say 12mid to 5AM. Three months later if the 85% isn't reached, shutdown SD from 11PM to 8AM. Three months later, shutdown from 11Pm to Noon, etc, etc. Once a date is reached two or so years later the shutdown would go 100% no matter what the number of adapters operating. This "Phased" shutdown would be more fair to the public. All I say is just wait and see what happens.


Cholly said:


> Sam -- you have pushed the panic button way too early. As of today, there are almost 13 months before the changeover occurs. Yes, there is a huge part of the population who aren't aware of the loss of over the air analog TV next year. However, prepare yourself for a media blitz in advance of the changeover, both over the air and in the newspaper. You and your mall walking friends will be well informed. (Congratulations on your walking, by the way. It's great for your health. I'm unable to walk that much due to a shattered ankle).
> 
> The examples you've cited are based on "fear, uncertainty and doubt". You hav no idea of the potential cost of converter boxes and the $40 coupons are bound to offset most, if not all, of the cost. As to connecting cables possibly not being included -- you can go to Wal-Mart, K Mart, Target or the dollar store and get the necessary cables for well under ten dollars. As to coupone: two per household are to be distributed. More than half will be available to anyone. Some will be held back and distributed to people in areas that don't have cable or satellite access.
> For people who are in cable areas and are on limited income, basic cable is available at less than ten dollars a month. Finally: your comment about "megabillion dollar broadcasters" is ill informed at best. Yes, the networks and some multi-station owners are billion dollar plus enterprises, but individually owned local TV stations are not. The networks themselves are limited as to the number of stations they can own and operate.
> ...


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

Sam - if we waited until 85% of the population could get the digital TV signals and use that as our criterea - the shutdown would never happen. 

IMO - it needs to be a clean cut with a firm deadline or it won't happen. Besides - there are FCC regulations that prevent this sort of phased shutdown. If we were going to do your suggestion - Right now is when they should be doing the midnight-5AM .


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## samhevener (Feb 23, 2006)

It will work with the phased type shutdown as I mentioned. You didn't read my entire message or I didn't make it clear. With the phased shutdown, within one or two years after 2-19-09 all SD stations would be completely off the air no matter if 85% of the population had the operational adapters or not. As I said, just continue to shut down the stations another 4 hours a day every 3 months if 85% don't have the adapters . Once the stations are shut down 24 hours a day ( which would be a year and a half to 2 years), all SD stations would be off the air no matter if 85% had adapters or not. This phased shutdown would force those who want to continue watching TV to get adapters and allow time for any problems instead of a complete 100% shutdown on 2-19-09. Everything can be changed, our elected Congress make the laws in this country, and can always override appointed government employees (FCC chairman). I would say the phased shutdown should start now IF the coupon and adapter program was started on Jan 1 2007 and had had a year head start. QUOTE=scooper;1404634]Sam - if we waited until 85% of the population could get the digital TV signals and use that as our criterea - the shutdown would never happen.

IMO - it needs to be a clean cut with a firm deadline or it won't happen. Besides - there are FCC regulations that prevent this sort of phased shutdown. If we were going to do your suggestion - Right now is when they should be doing the midnight-5AM .[/QUOTE]


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

Sam - post from an engineer at a TV station here in NC - It's very telling on how likely the transition is to go ... and how serious the FCC is on making it happen.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12904004#post12904004


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Some thoughts:
1) Converters will be available for under $40. Echostar has already announced a model that will be $39.99. Others will follow.
2) there will be up to 22 million coupons issued on the "honor" system. It is expected that most people who really need them will be able to get them.
3) if not, another 14 million will be available to people who truly qualify--tho it is not clear how people might need to qualify.
4) This transition will happen before February 18, 2009. If stations choose a phased approach, they are permitted, so long as they do not interfere with other channels. 
5) All recent FCC actions have only been to move up dates, not back. It is going to happen unless Congress gets a lot of phone calls very soon. (And then the people with $$ will start calling Congress, so it will still happen.) 

Cheers,
Tom


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## samhevener (Feb 23, 2006)

These things WILL happen if everything goes 100% according to plan. If not, things will change. I say things won't go according to plan.


Tom Robertson said:


> Some thoughts:
> 1) Converters will be available for under $40. Echostar has already announced a model that will be $39.99. Others will follow.
> 2) there will be up to 22 million coupons issued on the "honor" system. It is expected that most people who really need them will be able to get them.
> 3) if not, another 14 million will be available to people who truly qualify--tho it is not clear how people might need to qualify.
> ...


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Actually, there is quite a bit of flexibility in the steps I've just listed to meet the transition date. 
Echostar _has_ announced their unit.
The FCC _has_ started to take requests for coupons.
The FCC _has_ plans for the up to 36 million coupons
and the FCC _has_ moved up a key date.

The only reason the FCC would change the date is if Congress tells them to. The date can not be changed by the FCC at this point. And too many dollars are at stake for Congress to be swayed easily.

Many local stations have been planning their advertising campaigns for more than a year, some have been advertising for some time, getting people to see the "New yada in HD!" 

Cheers,
Tom


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

samhevener said:


> These things WILL happen if everything goes 100% according to plan. If not, things will change. I say things won't go according to plan.


I don't think it even needs to be 100% to work. Once the people start seeing the PSA's they'll know what's going on and start getting their converter boxes / new DTVs. And that's for the OTA only crowd (a decided minority these days).

I DO expect sites like this and www.avsforum.com to get lots of "one-time viewers" asking about this - maybe the site admins may want to put up a link about the DTV transition that says "CLICK HERE" if your question is about the Digital TV transition . THis link should goto a plain, easy to understand FAQ page, and then links to forums that have "experts" that can answer questions / provide guidance on reception problems.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

There is something you can do in the meantime: tell five people. Tell your next door neighbor. Tell the person at the cash register. A lot of people don't know about the thing, and pass along two messages:

(1) If you have cable or satellite, you're ok.
(2) You should assume this is happening, so if you need a coupon, get one now.


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## samhevener (Feb 23, 2006)

Just because you have the cable/satellite now doesn't mean you will have it a year from now. Many things can happen. Get your coupons even if you do. If you still have it later just give your adapters to someone else.


Stuart Sweet said:


> There is something you can do in the meantime: tell five people. Tell your next door neighbor. Tell the person at the cash register. A lot of people don't know about the thing, and pass along two messages:
> 
> (1) If you have cable or satellite, you're ok.
> (2) You should assume this is happening, so if you need a coupon, get one now.


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