# Advisory to Do-It-Yourself Dish Re-aligners



## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

*Jan 2010 Edit: See post #44 for a comprehensive, up-to-date post on re-alignment.*

Since this was written, the satellite nomenclature has changed. The national (CONUS) satellite transponders are now suffixed "(c)", and the spot beam satellite transponders are suffixed "(s)". The "(s)" signal strength menu pages combine info from both Spaceway and DirecTV satellites in their respective orbital positions.

103(a) = 103(s)
103(b) = 103(c)
99(a) = 99(c)
99(b) = 99(s)
_____________________________________________________________

We have a lot of new folks reading all the scattered threads regarding dish re-alignment who may be considering this for their own installation. They should know that at 9/23 we continue to notice variations in transponder strengths on the D10 (103(b)) satellite. For example, this AM I actually saw an 81 on one tp, which is 7 points below the lowest I have seen. These levels are still being adjusted. Therefore, you should not consider these to be indicative of a problem with your dish alignment or LNB. If you use the receiver signal meters for re-alignment, you should keep a log of _all_ your 103(b) tp ss's for a few days prior to re-alignment and pick a tp to use which has remained relatively steady, as most have, understanding that it, too, could be adjusted at any moment. The adjustments required are usually _very_ minor, assuming your dish was properly installed.

In addition, you should be on the look out for unusual discrepancies between the odd and even 103(b) tp's. This is an issue which apparently has more than one cause, and may or may not be sufficiently corrected by re-alignment. Reporting your own individual experience with _this_ issue and the specifics of your dish type and LNB manufacturer would be appreciated by others who are observing the same issue.

If you decide to adjust your own dish, please make sure that you thoroughly understand the mechanical construction of the AZ/EL fine adjustment screw mechanisms, because these can be damaged if you don't loosen the fine adjustment lock down bolts on most mount types.

If you have all tp's > 60-65, there is nothing at all the matter with waiting until things settle down to re-align your dish or have someone else do it, because you _will_ get a perfect picture if you can also now receive Ch. 498. Ch. 498 failure is a separate issue for you covered by other threads. Also, re-aligning your own dish is not worth falling off your roof or ladder, no matter _what_ your tp numbers are!

*EDIT: Also see Page 2, Posts #34 and #44 for Further Info (10/17)*


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Very well said!

And I continue to highly recommend you follow the procedures outlined in the installation videos: http://www.solidsignal.com/satellite/at9_install_videos.asp

This is the best way to get a strong signal across the whole constellation of satellites.

Cheers,
Tom


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## John in Georgia (Sep 24, 2006)

You're really seeing the "Big Picture"! Thanks for thinking of this--I'm sure it will help many.


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

As a further note, reports from the other night's Ch. 9300/9301 test broadcasts of Discovery HD and National Geographic HD indicate that people were able to receive these two channels from D10 with even lower 103(b) tp strengths than mentioned above. Therefore, there is probably less immediate cause for concern, if you have low tp #'s.

Another thing to keep in mind is that, because of the nature of Ka signals at this higher Ka frequency, even if you have 90+ tp readings, your signal strengths are going to go straight to zero anyhow in the event of obscuration of the signal path by dense rain clouds with the two types of dishes we have available to most of us at this time.

As time goes by, we'll see how local weather effects our reception of signals from D10 - [(Edit: This info incorrect) compared to 103(a) and 99(b) (Spaceway 1 and 2), the existing lower frequency Ka satellites, which we already know are more susceptible to service interruption than the 101/110/119 Ku's.] It's probably going to be an issue for people in some parts of the US.


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## f300v10 (Feb 11, 2005)

I have one of the first AT9 dishes, installed in Oct. 2005. I had a 10 to 15 point difference between odd and even TPs on 103b. Odds were in the mid 80s, evens in the low 70s. After adjusting the dish I now get near equal strength between odd and even, with the odds still slightly better. Most odds are between 90 to 92 while most evens are between 88 and 90. One odd and one even are at 95.

The adjustments needed were very slight. 1 1/2 turns on the horizontal, and 1/2 on the vertical.


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## Smuuth (Oct 4, 2005)

Very good points! 
I am one who believes my signal strengths on 103(b) (mid-70s - high 80s) can be improved but I have no intention of doing anything until after the channels go live.


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

K4SMX said:


> As time goes by, we'll see how local weather effects our reception of signals from D10 compared to 103(a) and 99(b) (Spaceway 1 and 2), the existing lower frequency Ka satellites, which we already know are more susceptible to service interruption than the 101/110/119 Ku's. It's probably going to be an issue for people in some parts of the US.


I understood D10 and D11 to be Ka-Low band (B Band), while the Spaceways are using Ka-High band (A Band). Is that not correct?


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

f300v10 said:


> I have one of the first AT9 dishes, installed in Oct. 2005. I had a 10 to 15 point difference between odd and even TPs on 103b. Odds were in the mid 80s, evens in the low 70s. After adjusting the dish I now get near equal strength between odd and even, with the odds still slightly better. Most odds are between 90 to 92 while most evens are between 88 and 90. One odd and one even are at 95.
> 
> The adjustments needed were very slight. 1 1/2 turns on the horizontal, and 1/2 on the vertical.


My dish was realigned after getting my multiswitch replaced in July - my 103(b) signals last night were ranging between a single low of 90 and two at 96, with most at 94 - 95 - I'm not gonna change a thing.


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## techrep (Sep 15, 2007)

LameLefty said:


> My dish was realigned after getting my multiswitch replaced in July - my 103(b) signals last night were ranging between a single low of 90 and two at 96, with most at 94 - 95 - I'm not gonna change a thing.


If you did it your self, you know, Farragut (just west of Knoxville near the 40/75 split) isn't that far away.


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

techrep said:


> If you did it your self, you know, Farragut (just west of Knoxville near the 40/75 split) isn't that far away.


Nope, sorry. It was a guy with a good meter who really knew what he was doing and was a perfectionist. My 100 signals went from low-mid 90's to mid/upper 90's (with 10 tps usually showing 100 in clear weather). My 99s went up from upper 80's to upper 90's, my 110 and 119 are both in the upper 90's/100's now. 

He decided to realign my dish when he replaced the switch, even though it wasn't on the work order, because he knew my locals were on 99 and didn't think the signals were good enough. If I remembered the guy's name I'd ask for him personally next time.


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## upgrade-itis (Aug 16, 2006)

Smuuth said:


> Very good points!
> I am one who believes my signal strengths on 103(b) (mid-70s - high 80s) can be improved but I have no intention of doing anything until after the channels go live.


+1, I do not see the point as well.


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## bobnielsen (Jun 29, 2006)

Most of the transponders here are mid-80s to upper-90s, but transponder 13 has been consistently lower (currently 59 on one tuner, 62 on the other). Numbers posted by others show this one being in the same range as the rest. Is anyone else in the far northwest seeing this?


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

As the sat is in it's final position realigning now would not be a bad idea... Yes they are playing with the power levels, this will affect your "best" readings but if you adjust for the best you can get it will be right later.. just don't worry that the best you can get right now is down a little..


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Didya hear the one about the self-made man? They say he should have consulted a professional. 

Just saying, sometimes the people who do this for a living actually know what they're doing.


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## Jon D (Oct 12, 2006)

LameLefty said:


> I understood D10 and D11 to be Ka-Low band (B Band), while the Spaceways are using Ka-High band (A Band). Is that not correct?


I thought it was the opposite of that and the B-Band converters brought the freq down to the low band and blocked the existing low band signal for that channel. Sombody educate me.


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## Smuuth (Oct 4, 2005)

LameLefty said:


> I understood D10 and D11 to be Ka-Low band (B Band), while the Spaceways are using Ka-High band (A Band). Is that not correct?


AFAIK, you are correct.


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

Smuuth said:


> AFAIK, you are correct.


Thank you - I thought I learned that along the way (probably from Tom's excellent summary stickied in this very sub-forum  ).

AHA! I'm NOT losing my mind (yet). From this thread:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=82295

Tom sez (and I'm sure he is correct), that the Spaceways operate in Ka-High band (A Band) 19.7-20.2GHz, while D10/11/12 will be in the Ka-Low (B Band) at 18.3-18.8GHz.


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## Jon D (Oct 12, 2006)

LameLefty said:


> Thank you - I thought I learned that along the way (probably from Tom's excellent summary stickied in this very sub-forum  ).
> 
> AHA! I'm NOT losing my mind (yet). From this thread:
> 
> ...


Glad you put that link back up. I'm back on the bus now. Looks like my dislexia is now for cured. :lol:


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

LameLefty said:


> I understood D10 and D11 to be Ka-Low band (B Band), while the Spaceways are using Ka-High band (A Band). Is that not correct?


[(Edit: This info incorrect)"Ka-low" is DirecTV terminology, which refers to the _output_ frequency of the LNB, for which we need our lovely BBC's to convert the signal back up to a frequency that can be used by the D* boxes without the requirement for additional receiver tuners/antenna cables. It is unrelated to the actual D10 satellite signals, which are 50% higher in frequency than the Spaceway Ka satellites, thus giving rise to the concerns expressed above.]


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

LameLefty said:


> Thank you - I thought I learned that along the way (probably from Tom's excellent summary stickied in this very sub-forum  ).
> 
> AHA! I'm NOT losing my mind (yet). From this thread:
> 
> ...


Aww, shucks... Thanks for the compliments.

Cheers,
Tom


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

K4SMX said:


> "Ka-low" is DirecTV terminology, which refers to the _output_ frequency of the LNB, for which we need our lovely BBC's to convert the signal back up to a frequency that can be used by the D* boxes without the requirement for additional receiver tuners/antenna cables. It is unrelated to the actual D10 satellite signals, which are 50% higher in frequency than the Spaceway Ka satellites, thus giving rise to the concerns expressed above.


Yes (somewhat) and no (somewhat). The Ka band to the home is broken up to two frequency ranges as LameLefty points out. So I thought I've seen references to the Ka-low and Ka-high in non-DIRECTV discussions to refer to the two sub-bands.

And it's all good. 

Cheers,
Tom


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

K4SMX said:


> "Ka-low" is DirecTV terminology, which refers to the _output_ frequency of the LNB,


I don't believe that is correct. The actual satellite frequencies for B Band (where D10 is broadcasting) ARE lower than for A Band, where the Spaceways are broadcasting; see above. Actually, Directv doesn't even use "Low" or "High" they use "A Band" and "B Band."



> It is unrelated to the actual D10 satellite signal, *which is 50% higher in frequency than the Spaceway Ka satellites, *thus giving rise to the concerns expressed above.


I'm not following what you mean here. D10 signals are actually lower in frequency (but not 50% lower) than those of the Spaceways.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

LameLefty said:


> I don't believe that is correct. The actual satellite frequencies for B Band (where D10 is broadcasting) ARE lower than for A Band, where the Spaceways are broadcasting; see above. Actually, Directv doesn't even use "Low" or "High" they use "A Band" and "B Band."
> 
> I'm not following what you mean here. D10 signals are actually lower in frequency (but not 50% lower) than those of the Spaceways.


Oops, I saw the jab and completely missed the upper cut. 

LameLefty, you are correct with the frequency ranges you posted and your analysis here.

Cheers,
Tom


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

It wouldn't be the first time I was mis-informed. For some reason I thought Spaceway 1 & 2 were at 12ghz. _Whatever_ the Ka frequencies of D10 are, there's going to be an issue with weather.


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

K4SMX said:


> It wouldn't be the first time I was mis-informed. _Whatever_ the Ka frequencies of D10 are, there's going to be an issue with weather.


On THAT we have no disagreement. 

My MPEG4 locals come in on 99. Until my recent realignment signals on the pertinent transponder were around 88 - 90. I would do pretty well except in heavy rain conditions. Since the realignment I'm at 92 - 96. I survived several very heavy rain events with no loss of signal and only minor to moderate macroblocking for a few moments here or there. Prior to the realignment I would lose signal for minutes at a stretch in such circumstances. The true test will be the fall rainy season (assuming we ever have fall - it was 96 again yesterday. Ugh.)


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

K4SMX said:


> It wouldn't be the first time I was mis-informed. For some reason I thought Spaceway 1 & 2 were at 12ghz. _Whatever_ the Ka frequencies of D10 are, there's going to be an issue with weather.


Very true. 

Another good point brought to me by Radioenginerd is that all too often it seems the elevation lockdown bolts were not tightened. And gravity will pull the dish lower from sagging wood, shifting soon after installation, etc. Elevation is the most likely area to start on realignments.

Cheers,
Tom


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

LameLefty said:


> On THAT we have no disagreement. ...


I have spent most of my life in the HF world. SHF causes me to have brain palpitations....


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

K4SMX said:


> SHF causes me to have brain palpitations....


Step away from the transmitter and find a Faraday cage . . . your symptoms should subside momentarily.


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

Tom Robertson said:


> Very true.
> 
> Another good point brought to me by Radioenginerd is that all too often it seems the elevation lockdown bolts were not tightened. And gravity will pull the dish lower from sagging wood, shifting soon after installation, etc. Elevation is the most likely area to start on realignments.
> 
> ...


Yes, good point! I've noticed a lot of reports of that very thing. "I only raised my elevation by about....and now I've got 90+", etc.


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

LameLefty said:


> Step away from the transmitter and find a Faraday cage . . . your symptoms should subside momentarily.


"Tin foil hats" have more than one use....


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## MiltonThales (Aug 22, 2007)

My signal levels on 103b range from 20 to 33, with most in the 20s. Several HD channels show random pixelation -- in horiz. bands often -- with frequent sound drop outs. A D* tech is scheduled for Sunday AM, 9/30. Even so, I still get 480, 481 and 498, and 9300/9301. Digital encoding pays off.


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## DonCorleone (Jan 29, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> And I continue to highly recommend you follow the procedures outlined in the installation videos: http://www.solidsignal.com/satellite/at9_install_videos.asp


This only shows alignment for the AT-9...anything for the AU-9?


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## techrep (Sep 15, 2007)

DonCorleone said:


> This only shows alignment for the AT-9...anything for the AU-9?


It's the same. The base mount (AZ/EL TYPE1 or AZ/EL TYPE2) determines the method of azimuth alignment. TYPE1 dithers either side of peak on 101, for fine tuning, while TYPE2 azimuth fine tuning is performed in the same manner as elevation.


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

There continue to be sporadic reports of people finding that their TILT adjustment was way out of spec for their location when they initially examined their existing alignment. This should be corrected prior to any AZ/EL adjustments and can be re-visited as a final check.

There have been a fair number of reports of people finding that their mounts had become loose and therefore their dish elevation had dropped slightly. Any amount of this can drastically effect your alignment for Ka. Make sure all your mount bolts are secure. In any event, the most commonly reported dish aiming errors found by people re-aligning their own dishes are errors in EL, so that would be a good place to begin. Do not, however, adjust your EL based solely on a minor difference between the EL reading on your dish and that indicated by the receiver's Setup procedure. Minor differences are to be expected, and you should not expect that your signal will improve by simply adjusting your dish to exactly match the number indicated for your location.

There have also been reports of defective or poorly performing 103(c) LNB's on _both_ types of dishes, the AT9 and the AU9-S, such that tp signal strength readings in the 85-99 range on 103(c) on all 16 tp's are simply unattainable. Those type numbers normally _are_ attainable on _both_ types of dishes. Please be aware that at this time D* CSR's are telling customers that their installation is considered "normal," if they are receiving solid reception from D10 on all the channels they are supposed to receive and they have all signals in the 60's or higher.

A completely plumb mast is extremely important for 5 satellite alignment. If you are unable to correctly align your dish for good signals on one or more satellites with transponders you are supposed to be able to receive, you may find it necessary to mark your current AZ alignment on your mast, remove and set aside your dish temporarily, and check the plumb in all vertical planes with a level.

If you are supposed to be able to receive HD locals in your DMA, the satellite which carries them, either the 99(s) or the 103(s), may be found here, right column. Signal strengths all over the lot are to be expected on these two satellites. You should have one or more tp's in the 90's on whichever satellite carries them.

If you receive signals on 99(s) and they go _down_ after peaking 103(s), you may have an out-of-plumb mast. Do not be concerned about your mast plumb if the drop is only minor, however. Just find the optimum overall alignment for the Ka satellites. This will also ensure that you are optimally ready for D11 (99(c)).
. 
You can read the installation manual for the AU9-S (Slimline) here. The adjustment instructions are on Page 9. You can watch the installation video of the adjustment of the AT9 here. The adjustment video is Segment 03. If you inadvertently mess up your alignment such that you have lost the 101 or otherwise want to start from scratch, these are very useful. You should review one or the other in any case to understand completely the mechanical construction of your dish mount before proceeding, so as not to damage it by failure to loosen the fine adjustment lock down bolts, as applicable to your mount. Do not loosen any bolts which are not 1/2" bolts. Do not loosen _all_ the bolts on the EL adjustment simultaneously, or the dish will drop unexpectedly.

Finally, before you spend a lot of your valuable time working on your dish, you should first spend a _little_ bit of your valuable time reviewing Troubleshooting Tips for 103(b) to make sure that you have eliminated all possible equipment issues first. And when using the receiver's signal meters, allow time for your adjustments to register on your receiver.

*Remember, your personal safety is paramount. This is only TV. You will not receive a very good 16:9 HD picture from your hospital bed. It will instead be a dim, out-of-convergence picture on an old 19" CRT, and you'll get to use a remote with dead batteries.* Read this story!: Be Careful on Ladders

*Also see post #44, below*


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## byron (Nov 15, 2004)

i have to say.. i was skeptical about my ability to allign the new dishes. after redoing my allignment i think these are easier. reason being, you can loosen up the adjustment bolts and the fine tune screws, get a good signal across all the birds, then lock down the fine tuning bolt and use the fine tuning adjustment to lock in optimal signals. this makes it much easier to optimize your elevation and azimuth.


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## ansek (Sep 29, 2007)

Is it possible to setup an AT-9S dish using the receiver as a signal strength meter? I ordered one from solid signal and it was backorderd. I have all my stuff might one HR20 receiver and the signal Airtrac-22 meter.


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

ansek said:


> Is it possible to setup an AT-9S dish using the receiver as a signal strength meter? I ordered one from solid signal and it was backorderd. I have all my stuff might one HR20 receiver and the signal Airtrac-22 meter.


_Many_ people use the signal strength meters. Be sure you give the receiver time to respond to any adjustment you make.


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## code4code5 (Aug 29, 2006)

I actually used an composite output from my H20-100, through a VCR to use as a RF converter, then ran RG6 out my bedroom window and to a little 13" TV I put on the porch right next to the dish. Easiest alignment I've ever done and my wife didn't have to scream numbers from the living room.


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

Having your wife/gf relay s. s. #'s to you is not conducive to near or even intermediate-term harmony, in my experience. Children are better; they'll watch _anything_ on TV, usually. "Friends" are a maybe. Yours is a much better solution! In fact, I take a small TV, an H20, and an RF modulator right to the dish, if at all possible. The slickest thing is to use a Slingbox and a wireless laptop. Careful not to let the laptop slide off the roof...


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

K4SMX said:


> _Many_ people use the signal strength meters. Be sure you give the receiver time to respond to any adjustment you make.


You just nailed the reason why using the signal meter on the receiver is not recommended. Many, many people are far to impatiant to take the time and do small adjustments to let the meter stabilize.


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

RobertE said:


> You just nailed the reason why using the signal meter on the receiver is not recommended. Many, many people are far to impatiant to take the time and do small adjustments to let the meter stabilize.


Would you mind listing the specific receivers, if you know, Robert? I've never noticed this on the non-activated H20-600 I use, but I know it's an issue.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

K4SMX said:


> Would you mind listing the specific receivers, if you know, Robert? I've never noticed this on the non-activated H20-600 I use, but I know it's an issue.


Pretty much all of them.

It takes most receivers a second or two to give you a good reading. If your spinning those fine tuning dials like a mad man, one will never hit it dead on. Probably get really close, but not perfect. Then if you add in a repeater, ie, wife, s.o., kid, etc, just adds to the delay.

Think of it this way. Using a true signal meter is like listing to a game live on the radio. Where using the receivers meter will be like watching it "live" on your dvr. You just end up with a bit of lag from real time.

It can be done for sure. Done it myself. Just takes more patience.


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

Yes, well, _no one_ should be spinning those fine adjustment screws like a madman!:nono2:


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

(Edited 27JUL08 for the addition of DirecTV11)

There are two predominant types of dishes currently in use: the AT-9 ("sidecar") and the AU9-S (Slimline). There is also the new Slimline3, which does not receive the 110 and 119 satellites, so the dish is aligned with reference only to the 99/101/103 satellites, as further outlined below.

These are the written instructions for the AU9-S.

This is DirecTV's 2006 video for fine tuning adjustments of the back assemblies of both of the main types of dishes currently in use. You'll have no trouble identifying which type you have and how adjustments are made from this comprehensive video.

The above references are designed only for finding the simultaneous broad peaks of the 101 and 119 satellites, targeting the 99 and 103 satellites only inferentially. A lot installers don't yet have Ku/Ka satellite meters and, in any event, may not have had access to an actual Ka signal at the time these instructions were issued. Adjustment by this method alone does not in practice always produce maximum Ka signal strengths which are available at your dish, because these two dishes exhibit _very_ sharp alignment characteristics for the Ka satellites. Experienced installers are very adept at using this "dither" method on the 101 satellite, and, when carefully practiced, will get you very close, assuming a plumb mast.

Following are additional observations on Ka re-alignment procedures, some of which were touched on in earlier posts in this thread:

Before doing anything else, you should seriously *consider examining the plumb* on your dish support mast with a good level in two opposing vertical planes, since many people have found their mast's mounting plate screws had worked loose from the building structure (or their masts were otherwise not plumb). Tighten those as necessary. To check your plumb with a level, you will have to temporarily remove and set aside your dish, after carefully marking the AZ where the mast meets the dish mount. At a minimum, use the plastic bubble shipped in the top of your dish mast if it's still there, with the understanding that it's not as good as a level on the length of your mast. It's better to use one of those 9" "torpedo" levels, which is pretty much the length of the vertical part of the mast. Most of them have a groove on one side which aligns them perfectly with the mast.

Carefully check the plumb of the mast in the parallel plane to the side of your house or roof line. There's usually some wiggle room in the screw holes where the mounting plate is mounted to the house. So if it's just slightly out of plumb in that plane, you can move the mounting plate around in the screw holes to correct that, after you loosen the screws slightly. You may even notice a slight change sometimes when you tighten the screws back down. Similarly, plumb in the other plane is adjusted with the two bolts which secure the mast arm to the mounting plate. If you check the plumb in that direction, you can correct any out of plumb condition by slight adjustment, after loosening those two bolts. It would be better not to bend anything into plumb, if possible. And again, sometimes re-tightening them moves the plumb slightly.

If you start with a perfectly plumb mast, you're guaranteed to get good alignment results across all the satellites, as long as the LNB/dish is good. Aligning a dish on an out-of-plumb mast, while certainly possible, is more difficult and time-consuming, although in some mounting locations is unavoidable.

Next, make sure you understand how *the fine tuning mechanisms* are constructed, so you don't damage them. Reviewing the DirecTV video (above) is especially helpful in this respect. Because the EL is the most likely to be out of alignment, you might begin there. Note that you do NOT loosen the nut behind the EL or the AZ fine adjustment knobs unless you run out of travel on the screw, just the other two nuts on the EL and AZ fine adjustment mechanisms, as applicable to your mount. (Some mounts have only one EL lockdown bolt.) Make sure the nut behind the EL adjustment knob is tight before you loosen the other nut(s). Do not otherwise loosen all the EL nuts simultaneously, or the whole dish will drop unexpectedly. Do NOT loosen anything on the fine tuning mechanisms that's not a 1/2" nut.

You might also consider, if safe and practical, *moving a receiver*, an RF modulator (if necessary) and a small TV to near the dish location for ease of adjustment and/or when working by yourself. Otherwise, you'll need a helper to relay signal readings to you by phone. A Slingbox and a laptop are the ultimate setup, if you have them already. Temporarily remove the LNB from its support arm, and remount the LNB for adjustment, using a short, known-good cable. If you are lucky, there will be an in-line pigtail of RG6 on one of your dish lines which you can use instead. When you remove the LNB, be careful not to lose the hardware, but if you do, these are 8x32x1-1/4 inch bolts with "Whiz nuts."

*If you have NO 103(c)/99(c) signals*, you should first thoroughly review Troubleshooting Tips for 103(c), as applicable, and consider whether you might have an equipment problem before proceeding. If you think you might have one or more bad BBC's and are in doubt, you can always adjust your dish on one of the 103(s) or 99(s) local spot beam transponders signals, if they are at all present at your location. If you have no 103 or 99 signals, you will need to find the broad 101 & 119 peaks, as covered in the video or the installation instructions or using the receiver's Signal Meters, just as if you were starting from scratch. You are unlikely to even find the 103's or 99's otherwise. You can then do a little further tweaking on a 103 or 99 satellite.

*If your 103(c)/99(c) signals are now present, but low*, and you are using a receiver and not a Ku/Ka signal meter for tracking your adjustment, just go directly to an individual 103(c) or 99(c) transponder on the Signal Meter(s). You will find that the weaker tp's are more sensitive to re-alignment adjustments because of the software algorithm used, which is actually measuring signal strength by inversely displaying the bit error rate (BER).

Remember to allow time for the Signal Meter to respond to your adjustments. Write down your existing 103 and 99 readings. Be aware that whenever you are viewing the signal strength grid for a particular satellite as opposed to a specific transponder with the Signal Meters, it is normal to see tp signal strengths "blinking zeros" occasionally. This is just a software issue, which can be confirmed by viewing the actual transponder with the Signal Meters. Make sure your tilt is set to the proper amount for your location. (Go to dishpointer.com and enter your exact location, then select the DirecTV 5 LNB dish in the drop-down menu.)

The individual transponder Signal Meter selection is found in the on-screen menu, so select one to begin:

Parental, Fav's & Setup > System Setup > Satellite (& Ant) > View Signal Strength > Signal Meters

Carefully fine tune first the EL and then the AZ by means of the fine adjustment bolts, the ones with the index number skirts. Don't forget to loosen those lock down bolts! (if you have an AT9, your mount's AZ may be different.) If you're using a 103(c) tp, then have a look at your 99(c)'s which you previously recorded. As a final step, you can adjust your tilt _slightly_ in each direction by loosening the three nuts on the back of the tilt ring, checking back and forth between a 99(c) and a 103(c) tp. Optimize between the 99(c) and the 103(c). If the 99's went down instead of up when compared to any original numbers you wrote down, you have some minor geometry problem: out of plumb mast, dish imperfections, etc. If there's an appreciable difference, review your plumb, etc. Dishes can also have been warped in shipping. When you're finished, *re-tighten all lock down bolts*.

Don't worry about the 119 Ku's; they're just "along for the ride," and are much less precise in alignment requirement. In a perfect world, with a perfectly plumb mount and perfect dish construction, the arc formed by your dish alignment should line up exactly with the arc of the satellites in the sky.

*Remember, your personal safety is paramount. This is only TV. You will not receive a very good 16:9 HD picture from your hospital bed. It will instead be a dim, out-of-convergence picture on an old 19" CRT, and you'll get to use a remote with "iffy" batteries.* Read this story!: Be Careful on Ladders


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## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

This is great advice from K4SMX. Having re-aligned three dishes in the last two weeks (two AT-9 and one slimline) to improve the 103(b) signals, I can tell you he has emphasized the most important issues. 
You may be seeing what look like good signals on 101/110/119 but poor signals on 103(b). Remember that when you had your dish installed there were probably no 103(b) signals to check. And the installation instructions for the slimline don't even mention 103(b) at the moment, although I hope DirecTV will change this. 
If your dish is not plumb you will never get great signals across the board. The complex geometry of the dish is such that an out-of plumb mount makes it impossible to get very high signals from all the satellites simultanously. I was lucky - my AT-9 dish was one of the first installed, and the installer did pretty well on getting it aligned for 101 etc, but the most important thing was it was very well plumbed. When I came to adjust my own dish to get better 103(b), only minor adjustments in both azimuth and elevation moved my 103(b) signals from the 70s/80s to the mid to high 90s, and all my other signals improved also. The second dish I adjusted, a slimline, was more difficult. My initial adjustments improved 103(b) from the 60s to the 80s, but I could not improve any further without running into problems with 99 and 119. So I re-plumbed the dish mount, and then managed to get results similar to my own. The third dish I re-plumbed before I started, and after that it only took me about 10 minutes to get 103(b) signals in the 90s, with excellent signals on all the other satellites. 
I don't move a receiver to the dish, just a TV on the end of a very long coax driven by a modulator connected to the HD receiver.


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## johnnytex (Jul 20, 2007)

texasbrit said:


> This is great advice from K4SMX. Having re-aligned three dishes in the last two weeks (two AT-9 and one slimline) to improve the 103(b) signals, I can tell you he has emphasized the most important issues.
> You may be seeing what look like good signals on 101/110/119 but poor signals on 103(b). Remember that when you had your dish installed there were probably no 103(b) signals to check. And the installation instructions for the slimline don't even mention 103(b) at the moment, although I hope DirecTV will change this.
> If your dish is not plumb you will never get great signals across the board. The complex geometry of the dish is such that an out-of plumb mount makes it impossible to get very high signals from all the satellites simultanously. I was lucky - my AT-9 dish was one of the first installed, and the installer did pretty well on getting it aligned for 101 etc, but the most important thing was it was very well plumbed. When I came to adjust my own dish to get better 103(b), only minor adjustments in both azimuth and elevation moved my 103(b) signals from the 70s/80s to the mid to high 90s, and all my other signals improved also. The second dish I adjusted, a slimline, was more difficult. My initial adjustments improved 103(b) from the 60s to the 80s, but I could not improve any further without running into problems with 99 and 119. So I re-plumbed the dish mount, and then managed to get results similar to my own. The third dish I re-plumbed before I started, and after that it only took me about 10 minutes to get 103(b) signals in the 90s, with excellent signals on all the other satellites.
> I don't move a receiver to the dish, just a TV on the end of a very long coax driven by a modulator connected to the HD receiver.


Hey texbrit
I think you are in the DFW area. Could you post your signal strengths on all tps?
I can't figure out which ones are spots.
Thanks


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## techrep (Sep 15, 2007)

Posters with alignment questions/issues will greatly benefit from being pointed to this thread and post #44.


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## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

johnnytex said:


> Hey texbrit
> I think you are in the DFW area. Could you post your signal strengths on all tps?
> I can't figure out which ones are spots.
> Thanks


johnnytex - here goes:
101
1-8 100 82 96 0 96 96 96 98
9-16 98 87 98 100 98 100 96 100
17-24 98 0 98 100 100 98 98 98
25-32 98 0 98 0 98 100 98 100

110
tp 8 92, tp 10 90, tp 12 90

119
tp 22 100, tp 23 98, tp 24 98
25-32 96 100 100 98 98 100 98 100

99(b) (all are spotbeams for other cities)
1-6 0 0 0 94 0 94

103(a)
1-6 98 0 96 0 96 0

103(b)
1-8 94 96 94 94 89 96 89 94
9-16 94 96 94 94 96 94 na na
tp17 96


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## leesweet (Jul 15, 2003)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Didya hear the one about the self-made man? They say he should have consulted a professional.
> 
> Just saying, sometimes the people who do this for a living actually know what they're doing.


 I have to add, sometimes it *is* true. After previous experiences with Mastec, I was a bit shocked. I had DirecTV/Mastec come to realign my 103b's (in the 50s, with 101 at 90-92). After discussing the usual issues with the technician, who freely admitted they had no way to peak 103/99, he said: I'm going to peak 101 carefully, check 119, and then we'll see what 103b looks like.

A half hour later, 101 has nine 100s, in general is up 7-8 points everywhere, 119 about the same change, and 103b is all 95s. I freely apologized and called him an artist with a tuning meter. I suppose because it *is* possible using the Ku's, they aren't supplying an easy direct method to tune the thin Ka signals.


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## gb33 (Sep 8, 2006)

K4SMX said:


> Yes, well, _no one_ should be spinning those fine adjustment screws like a madman!:nono2:


Unfortunately I have and that is probably why I am in the pickle I am in. K4SMX if you recall me a couple months back. The fine tuning screw was the only thing I found to bring my MP4 channels back in. But now I only get a good signal on every other transponder and my HD channels are unwatchable to to constant break up every 20-30secs. So tomorrow is finally supposed warm and I don't have alot going on. So wish me luck. I will get a brace across my gable peak (to form a triangle) so I can finally get the bottom half of the mounting plate secured to something. That thing is just one big kite up there and I don't know how it has lasted so long with just the top 2 bolts mouted. I will report back with hopefully good results. Although I do use the repeater system with wife+radios. But also the added interference of a 4 month old and 2yr old. So it is certainly a treat.


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

gb33 said:


> .....So wish me luck.....with wife+radios..... But also the added interference of a 4 month old and 2yr old. So it is certainly a treat.


Your _real_ treats and here's wishing you luck! (And you know to make sure your mast is dead level when you've finished the "improvements.")

I'll have to say a wireless laptop and a DirecTV receiver-connected Slingbox through a wireless router is the greatest single improvement I've found to the dish alignment conundrum for those considering a Ka signal meter for just their personal use. Wouldn't want to drop the laptop off that roof gable, however.....


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