# Does Going to HD mean weaker signal?



## bearsloft (Jan 7, 2009)

Okay, I just recently upgraded to HD. I got a VIP 722 after 3 years with my older dual tuner DVR (don't recall the model). And now I'm experiencing much greater loss of signal than before.

Just in the last hour my wife couldn't watch Food Network as the signal kept dropping. It's dark as I right this, and there has been a light snow today (but not now). Prior to this upgrade, I only lost signal with really heavy rains.

So when this happened I went in to check switch. All green, signal verified. I got into some other menu stated I had lost signal on turner one 44 times during the afternoon and 52 times on tuner 2 during the same time. Scrolling down I found numerous other lost signals, but usually only 2 or 3 times in the given time period. 

Does anyone have any advice for this noob??

And no there are no trees blocking my view. There is the possibility of ice on the dish. Yesterday we had a small ice storm, but it quickly turned to rain, and rained all day until early this morning when it turned to a light snow.

Thanks,

Bear


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## redsalmon (Oct 16, 2006)

I'd check all the connections that I could find, especially on the tuner. Was your antenna replaced at the same time?


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## kucharsk (Sep 20, 2006)

If you have the DISH 1000.2 dish (the single dish with three LNBs) it *will* result in lower signal levels on 110 and 119 than you get with a Dish 500 antenna, and thus more rain fade and easier loss of signal than you're used to.


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## bearsloft (Jan 7, 2009)

redsalmon said:


> I'd check all the connections that I could find, especially on the tuner. Was your antenna replaced at the same time?


The connections that I can check (on the back of my receiver) are tight. I'm not sure what you mean by antenna. I suppose you mean an antenna for receiving local channels. If so, well that is a whole other story. As I was have always gotten my locals from Dish, I was quite surprised to find that after the upgrade, I did NOT received my locals in HD.

But then that is not a new topic around here. So I have put a cheap antenna on the set to try and get local HD. But that doesn't have anything to do with why HBO and Food network are dropping out on me.

Now if you mean the dish on my roof . . . yes they replaced that with something new.

Bear


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## HobbyTalk (Jul 14, 2007)

If you signal is dropping now (no rain in your area) I would suspect the new Dish antenna was not aimed properly by the installer.


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## bearsloft (Jan 7, 2009)

kucharsk said:


> If you have the DISH 1000.2 dish (the single dish with three LNBs) it *will* result in lower signal levels on 110 and 119 than you get with a Dish 500 antenna, and thus more rain fade and easier loss of signal than you're used to.


I don't know which dish I have. All I know is that they did replace my old dish with something new.

I checked my signal strengths though. 110 is in the high 60's. 119 is in the mid 70's. 129 is in the low 30's. But all say green.

Bear


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## ImBack234 (Aug 26, 2008)

bearsloft said:


> I don't know which dish I have. All I know is that they did replace my old dish with something new.
> 
> I checked my signal strengths though. 110 is in the high 60's. 119 is in the mid 70's. 129 is in the low 30's. But all say green.
> 
> Bear


I would say your 129 is the problem. Infact food is on 129. I would have the 129 replace with a wing dish for 61.5.

You can take a look at *the channels list*, 61.5 and 129 are the same. Just that 61.5 has so much more signal.


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## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

ImBack234 said:


> I would say your 129 is the problem. Infact food is on 129. I would have the 129 replace with a wing dish for 61.5.
> 
> You can take a look at *the channels list*, 61.5 and 129 are the same. Just that 61.5 has so much more signal.


In fact I would guess that Ohio is going to be on the eastern arc. So definitely 61.5. Perhaps a 1000.4.


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## bearsloft (Jan 7, 2009)

tnsprin said:


> In fact I would guess that Ohio is going to be on the eastern arc. So definitely 61.5. Perhaps a 1000.4.


Drat, the dreaded Eastern Arc!

So just as the installer was about to walk out the door, I said "Now lets see what my local channels look like in HD . . . " Thats when the installer explained to me that I didn't have any local channels in HD.

We discussed the 1000.4 dish, and that he didn't have any in stock. And that they are only for new customers if he did have any in stock. And that yes it would be possible to put up a wing dish, but that I ought to just wait till February when it's open up to all customers.

I called Customer service that night, but after 40 minutes on hold I hung up. And began experimenting with an old antenna. I'm not completely satisfied with my antenna experiments, I'm going to have to put something in the attic (or roof of course) to be able to reliably pull in all of my locals.

But I am still quite unhappy that I don't get the channels that I'm paying for from Dish. Whether thats local HD or the other channels on 129 that I seem to be having trouble with.

So with my low signal strength on the 129, will that and my complaining, get some action from Dish? I didn't have a problem getting 129 prior to upgrading to HD.

Thanks,

Bear


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## jkane (Oct 12, 2007)

129 is in the process of being replaced. The first replacement satellite didn't make it all the way to orbit last year. They have a new one that went up last month. I don't know it's true status. The theory is that pretty soon they will have a reliable satellite in that slot again.

The current 129 is wobbling or something like that and it comes and goes in about 20 minute cycles depending on how well your dish is aligned. Complain if you have cut outs. Dish should concede something to you for loss of signal despite their promise for fixing it "some day"!


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

The satellite that failed to achieve proper orbit was not for 129.


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## ImBack234 (Aug 26, 2008)

bearsloft said:


> But I am still quite unhappy that I don't get the channels that I'm paying for from Dish. Whether thats local HD or the other channels on 129 that I seem to be having trouble with.
> 
> So with my low signal strength on the 129, will that and my complaining, get some action from Dish? I didn't have a problem getting 129 prior to upgrading to HD.
> 
> ...


What did you watch on 129 before the upgrade?


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## bearsloft (Jan 7, 2009)

ImBack234 said:


> What did you watch on 129 before the upgrade?


What I watch hasn't changed. The wife watches Food Network and we both watch HBO. Of course there are others, but both of those channels we have had problems with since the upgrade and we did not have problems with them prior to the upgrade.

And a little update. I had been in email contact with tech support. They sent me a form letter questionnaire giving me steps to try (switch test and system reboot) and questions to report back various values found in the system set up. I just received a reply stating that they want to send a tech out. I now need to call and set up a time.

I think I should first discuss with a customer service rep about why I do not have my locals in HD, and we needs to be done to fix that (as well as my poor signal strength with 129). When I called to upgrade previously the customer service rep told me that getting local HD was "NO PROBLEM". I had been threatening to leave for Direct TV. Well they gave me a few concessions to keep me. But they did not write up a work order for a 1000.4 dish or a wing dish so that I could get the Eastern Arc (I didn't know I would need such).

Am I correct in thinking that the only problem with getting a wing dish is the aesthetics of having 2 dishes on my roof??

Thanks,

Bear


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## HobbyTalk (Jul 14, 2007)

If you get a wing dish for 61.5 you don't even need 129 since the proramming is mirrored.


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## ImBack234 (Aug 26, 2008)

bearsloft said:


> What I watch hasn't changed. The wife watches Food Network and we both watch HBO. Of course there are others, but both of those channels we have had problems with since the upgrade and we did not have problems with them prior to the upgrade.
> 
> Am I correct in thinking that the only problem with getting a wing dish is the aesthetics of having 2 dishes on my roof??
> 
> ...


I'm thinking you didn't watch anything on 129 before you HD upgrade. *Food and HBO SD are on 119.* If you hit the info key twice it will tell you which satellite your on. You should hold out for the 1000.4 dish.


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## HobbyTalk (Jul 14, 2007)

Also remember that you can't use a 1000.4 dish unless you have the new blue card for your reciever(s) and all of your receivers are HD capable.


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## bearsloft (Jan 7, 2009)

ImBack234 said:


> I'm thinking you didn't watch anything on 129 before you HD upgrade. *Food and HBO SD are on 119.* If you hit the info key twice it will tell you which satellite your on. You should hold out for the 1000.4 dish.


I'm sure your correct. I probably didn't have 129 at all prior to the upgrade. So like I said above, Dish agrees that I warrant a visit from a tech. My current signal strength being in the low 30's, if they can improve upon this, will my problems go away? Or will this failing satellite at 129 prove to be the real culprit?

And as far as holding out for the 1000.4 dish, are those getting any easier to get yet? Are they starting to let existing customers get them? My upgrade install was Dec 10 and at that time my installer didn't even have any in stock. And said he couldn't give them to existing customers if he did.

And I do want to especially thank everyone for chiming in with their thoughts on my post. Its clearly a sign of a healthy forum. To have so much input, in such a short time, and for someone new to this forum.

Thanks,

Bear


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## HobbyTalk (Jul 14, 2007)

If you can get them to put up a wing dish for 61.5 then you won't have to worry about a 129 and you'd be all set for anything that would be added in the future. I believe that 1000.4 dishes are still only available for new customers until Feb. 1 but maybe with your problems you can get one?


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

Eastern Arc is currently only for new customers. You'd have to buy your own EA dish if you wanted to go that way. Eastern Arc requires you have all ViP-series receivers and purple access cards. And you probably still wouldn't be getting any HD locals.


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## bearsloft (Jan 7, 2009)

An update: I called Dish tech support concerning my weak signal, per my email correspondence with their tech support. The phone tech had me go through the same procedure before acknowledging that my the email tech had approved a service call under my 90 warranty period.

So then I brought up my second problem, not recieving local HD channels. The CSA declared that the two problems were one in the same. And that when the service guy comes out, he'll fix my weak signal and give me my local HD channels.

I explained that my installer told me that I could not get local HD, that he had not been approved to install the dish I would need. She repeated that when I get my service call next Friday, I'll get my local HD channels. I implored her to put this in writing, to write a work order. She simply stated that she had made all necessary notes and that I would soon have local HD.

So does anyone want to place any bets??

Am I overly pessimistic that this CSA knew what she was talking about?? 


Thanks,

Bear


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## bearsloft (Jan 7, 2009)

Another update:

This evening I sat down to watch a little HBO . . . wrong! Error 002 (lost signal). The program I had been taping had holes in it, and I couldn't watch anything on 129. I starting getting mad, that I had to wait till Friday to MAYBE get this fixed, yet I'm paying for it now. So I called.

I explained to the India CSA that I had not received Local HD channels since I upgraded a month ago, and that I was continuously having trouble watching anything from satellite 129. She readily offered to credit my account for the whole month of lost local HD ($5) but was very very reluctant to give me any more of a credit for my problems with 129. She kept asking me "are you experiencing a problem RIGHT now?". I replied that right now my signal is back, but when I called it was gone. This went round and round for several minutes until she agreed to give me $4.90.

Then just before we said our good byes, error 002 came up again. She decided to transfer me to tech support. I told the guy right from the start that a service call was scheduled for Friday and I doubted there was anything he could do. We chatted some, turns out he is in Columbus OH about 2 hours north of me. Anyway he agreed that a service call was needed because 129's signal strength was in the low 30's. He said that 40 is the minimum threshold and they perfer to see in much higher. Although with my setup 80 is the highest possible signal strength that I could get.

Then I asked him about my local HD. He confirmed what I and those of you on the forum knew, that I need another dish to get those channels. He scheduled another appointment with an installer to give me a wing dish. He said he could not get me a 1000.4 dish. And he credited my account with a month of free HBO and Stars and a 2 week credit towards my service (for my current lost signal problems) as well as the cost of the install for the wing dish. 

The only think left to complain about is that on 3 of my local channels are avialable in HD via Dish (and no PBS). But that is another well trodden topic I think. And at least he was up front about it, so I won't be surprised when the installer leaves and I mutter "I wonder what channel 12 looks like in HD . . . . WTF!!"

If you got a problem, you've got to get past the India call dept as fast as possible. That's what I've learned.

Bear


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## MrDogDad (Nov 20, 2006)

When you get your wing dish installed, you're going to want to disable the feed horn for 129 on your existing dish by covering it with aluminum foil. Otherwise the receiver will try to get the signal from that bird first and you'll still have dropouts. Of course once the new satellite is in position and running, probably within a month or so, it shouldn't matter.


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## jpeckinp (Nov 6, 2006)

Where is Blue Ash, Oh is my question? If you're in an area that Dish doesn't have HD locals then no you won't get them.

You say Columbus is 2 hours north of you so are you more toward Cincy/Dayton or are you SE of Columbus? I don't know of any HD locals that dish has in that area. The closest would probably be the Columbus or possible Charleston, WV if you are SE. If you're Cincy area then you should have HD locals.


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## bearsloft (Jan 7, 2009)

jpeckinp said:


> Where is Blue Ash, Oh is my question? If you're in an area that Dish doesn't have HD locals then no you won't get them.
> 
> You say Columbus is 2 hours north of you so are you more toward Cincy/Dayton or are you SE of Columbus? I don't know of any HD locals that dish has in that area. The closest would probably be the Columbus or possible Charleston, WV if you are SE. If you're Cincy area then you should have HD locals.


Blue Ash is a suburb of Cincinnati. I am part of the Cincinnati market. And I was told that there are 3 local HD channels available.

Bear


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

I believe Cincinatti HD locals are on 61.5.


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## bearsloft (Jan 7, 2009)

Jim5506 said:


> I believe Cincinatti HD locals are on 61.5.


Interesting, because I really thought that the Columbus tech said 77. But I could be wrong. Shoot, I don't even know if 77 is an actual satellite or not 

It just slays me the mass confusion over this.

1)The original upgrade Customer Service telling me "local HD was no problem". 
2)My installer telling me that I didn't have local HD, and that he couldn't give it to me. This after he was already done with my install.
3)The follow up call from customer service the day of my install utterly clueless as to why my installer would leave NOT giving me local HD or whey he would tell me that I couldn't get it. 
4)Then India Customer Service telling me that my weak signal for satellite 129 is the SAME reason I don't have local HD. Don't worry when they come to realign my dish, my local HD will magically appear.

I mean I'm upgrading to HD, I've been paying for local's wouldn't you think I would want my locals in HD. Why does everyone at Dish think I won't notice or care?

Bear


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## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

bearsloft said:


> Interesting, because I really thought that the Columbus tech said 77. But I could be wrong. Shoot, I don't even know if 77 is an actual satellite or not
> 
> It just slays me the mass confusion over this.
> 
> ...


Echostar Knowledge Base http://www.echostaruser.com/hdlocal.php agrees that the Cincinnati is on 77. Which means an eastern ARC 1000.4 is needed not a realign of a 1000.2. The sd locals are on 77 for eastern arc, and 110 for older installs.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

The alternative is to add a 77 dish to a 1000.2 setup. One MUST have either 129 or 61.5 to get all the HD channels ... and 77 to get that market's locals. If there are non-ViP receivers on the account the 1000.2 plus 77 dish would be the better way.


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## bearsloft (Jan 7, 2009)

James Long said:


> The alternative is to add a 77 dish to a 1000.2 setup. One MUST have either 129 or 61.5 to get all the HD channels ... and 77 to get that market's locals. If there are non-ViP receivers on the account the 1000.2 plus 77 dish would be the better way.


I believe that this is the plan. As I currently have a dish that gets 110, 119, and 129. So I believe that they want to add a dish that gives me 77. I asked about getting a 1000.4 dish to get 61.5 but my helpful Columbus CSA said that he could NOT do that.

I'd rather have only one dish. And I'd rather not be on the failing 129 (even if it should be only for a few weeks more). But I hope they are able to realign my dish to give me a stronger signal for 129 and then with the addition of 77 I believe I won't have anything valid to complain about any longer. :lol:

Oh, and I actually only have one receiver, a vip-722 working 2 TV's. My fine new 46" Panny Plasma and my old style 32" JVC CRT down in the basement playroom. I have no plans to upgrade the older TV. It's about 7 years old now and since it's use is somewhat limited. I hope to get many more years out of it. Perhaps someday I'll be so burdened with excess cash that I'll turn that room into a home theater. But seeing as I'm not so burdened, it will have to do.

Bear


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## bearsloft (Jan 7, 2009)

Another update. The Dish service guy just left. When he arrived I had a signal strength under 30 for 129. After he realigned my dish the signal strength rose to the high 50's. He said that the previous installer set my dish only for 110 and 119. And that is why I had a week signal with 129.

Next stop Sunday when I get a new dish to pick up 77 and my local HD channels.

Bear


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## bearsloft (Jan 7, 2009)

Final update:

This morning was the time that I was to get my second dish (for 77) to get my locals in HD. The installer showed and and asked "So why am I here, whats up?" To which I reply I don't have any locals in HD. He says "Of course not, you don't have the right dish for that." I said that's why your here and he says that his work order is a service call and that it says that I already have those channels but their not working.

AAARRGGGGGGGGGGG! What F__ing idiots! No I'm not blaming the installer, but 3 different tech support people were involved in this loop to write this order. I explained to each of them about not having the right dish. 

Okay, whining is past. 

Fortunately the installer had the dish in his truck. He spent a 1/2 an hour on the phone with Dish. Dish closed out the old work order and opened a new one (that was scheduled for Feb 6) and then he snatched that work order from the Q to do it today.

All seems to be well, except that I couldn't help but notice 129 signal strength was in the low 40's again. Hopefully that replacement for 129 will correct that. Anyway, I now have 3 of my locals in HD. One of those not in HD is our local ABC affiliate. Rumor is their holding out till after the Superbowl in hopes that Dish will pay more in time to get the Superbowl in HD.

I for the life of me can't understand why PBS is not available though. Of course I don't have the slightest clue how these negotiations work. But it just seems like it would be free to include PBS. 

Oh, and I had to sign another 2 year agreement to get this dish. But that doesn't really matter, as I signed one 7 weeks ago. 

Bear


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## ImBack234 (Aug 26, 2008)

bearsloft said:


> One of those not in HD is our local ABC affiliate. Rumor is their holding out till after the Superbowl in hopes that Dish will pay more in time to get the Superbowl in HD.


But wait isn't the Superbowl going to be on NBC?

"*Super Bowl XLIII will be the 43rd annual edition of the Super Bowl in American football.
The game will be televised live in the United States on NBC, the network's first Super Bowl broadcast since Super Bowl XXXII at the end of the 1997 season, and will be available in 1080i high definition.*"


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## bearsloft (Jan 7, 2009)

ImBack234 said:


> But wait isn't the Superbowl going to on on NBC?


:lol: What do I know, thats just what the installer told me and it seemed to make sense at the time :lol:

Bear


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## Rduce (May 16, 2008)

I had a similar incident last summer, I upgraded to HD and they sent out and installed a 1000.2 dish, however 129’s signal hovered around the 20 and often below. E* sent out a tech that installed a wing 500 dish pointed at 61.5 so I could get my locals and those channels that I was not getting on 129. At the same time he replaced the 1000.2 dish with another 500 pointed at 110 & 119. All my problems were solved after that. 

Didn’t have to pay a thing or extend my contract either. I always go through the online chat site, saves time and those folks seem to understand English better…


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