# Using ViP612 with King-Dome in RV



## ShapeShifter (Apr 21, 2008)

I have a new installation, which includes a ViP612 receiver installed in a motorhome, and connected to a King-Dome Track-King 9762-LP satellite dome. This dome can see all of the satellites I need for my programming package (61.5, 110, 119) but it can only see one satellite at a time. It's easy enough to push a couple buttons on the dome control panel and switch satellites, my issue is how to best set up the ViP612 receiver to be able to cope with this.

What I do now is decide which satellite I need based on the channel I want to watch, I move the dome to that satellite, and then I do a check switch on the receiver. The receiver performs the test, decides that it can see that satellite and only that satellite, and downloads a program guide that includes only the channels from that satellite. I can then tune in the station, and watch to my heart's content. I can also immediately switch to any other station on that satellite. So far, so good.

But if I want to watch a channel on a different satellite, it won't let me even try to tune it in until I move the dome, repeat the check switch, and download a new program guide. That can take several minutes, which is a very long time when all you want to do is change channels. It gets particularly frustrating when all you want to do is check the guide to see what's on those other channels.

Is there some way to streamline this operation?

I'm thinking that the ideal situation is to somehow convince the receiver that it can see all three satellites, even if two are missing at the time. Then I would hope that I could see the full program guide, and tune any station in my programming package. If the station is on the current satellite, all would be well. But if the station is on a different satellite I would see a "lost signal" screen, which would clear up as soon as I move the dome to another channel. If I could get it to work something like this, I would be happy. I realize that I would still have limitations on scheduling recordings if they are not on the current satellite, and I would never be able to record two shows simultaneously if they are on different satellites. I understand that limitation, and I can live with it. (It is, after all, for use while "roughing it" on the road! We can't expect to have all the comforts of home!  )

Can it operate in this mode? Or something close to it? Is there any way I can get it to work where I don't have to do a check switch each time I move the dome?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!


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## ChuckA (Feb 7, 2006)

I setup a dish outside when parked and it can see all. Obviously that does not work when you are on the move.


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## Jason Nipp (Jun 10, 2004)

Best way around having to do a check switch every time you move is to use 3 king domes even if it is on another rig to train the matrix and make it think it has 3 live feeds. You will need an SW64 switch to do this.

The only dish receiver than can interface with the ECM module is the DP311. Previous Charlie Chats revealed that they are working on the ViP211 for full control of the ECM.

The real way around this is to have 3 In-Motion units on your rig through an SW64, but yes I understand that is a very costly proposition. 

Jason


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## Jnel (Jan 17, 2006)

Couldn't you hook this receiver to your home dish once to see all birds, download guide etc., then put it in RV?
Of course this would only be good for trips under 9 days.


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## rustamust (Feb 22, 2006)

Same thing as above post only later. 
I do my check switch at home while hooked to my 2 dish system (500=110/119,500=129) and then never do check switch again as it would loose all 3 sats and only find the one you are pointed at. I move my auto seek dish back and forth from sat to sat and never loose any sats. The guide will run out after a few days and give you the option to download or not. I have been doing this for years in my motor-home. 
My dish is a auto seek Winegard system.


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## Jason Nipp (Jun 10, 2004)

Jnel said:


> Couldn't you hook this receiver to your home dish once to see all birds, download guide etc., then put it in RV?
> Of course this would only be good for trips under 9 days.


Sometimes no....Most in-motion systems output a LEGACY signal, if your home dish is DISH PRO or DISH PRO Plus it may not work properly. When you do a check switch it identifies what LNBF type and switch type your using, so cheating the system like this may not work the same way across the board on all system types.

This is why I said cheat by hooking into 3 King domes because you can predict the outcome with certainty. But you could also try teaching the matrix with a fixed dish from home provided the in-motion array is a similar output type. YMMV


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## rustamust (Feb 22, 2006)

All of my LNBs are the same dishpro, a single on motor-home and duals feeding a DP 34 on home. I am using a VIP 211 in motor-home and in basement during off season. A 510 in office and a 622 in LR with 55 mits HD. The motor-home has a 20" pan. SD but I like the pic quality with HD feed and the added selection from the 129


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## ShapeShifter (Apr 21, 2008)

Thank you all for your replies, that was fast! :righton:



ChuckA said:


> I setup a dish outside when parked and it can see all. Obviously that does not work when you are on the move.


I don't really care about in-motion. It's just my wife and I, and we never watch while on the road. Using an external dish is an option, as there is an external dish input already wired up that I could use. But I think I'm too far East to get 129, which means I use 61.5 instead. I don't think there is a single dish solution to getting 110/119/61.5, and having to set up two dishes (like I have at home) all of the time sounds like a real pain.

I'd sure like to make the dome usable, although I might consider a dish on a tripod if it turns out the dome is often shaded by trees.



Jason Nipp said:


> The real way around this is to have 3 In-Motion units on your rig through an SW64, but yes I understand that is a very costly proposition.


Costly? Ummm.... YOU GOT THAT RIGHT! :eek2:

Before I go that far, I would rip the existing dome off of the roof and put up one of the new MotoSat units. True, it's not in-motion, but I don't care about that.

When I bought the rig last year, it had the dome installed from the factory. When I made the offer on the rig off of the lot, I said I wasn't interested in the dome or the outside entertainment center, and I didn't want to pay for them. They agreed to subtract the full option cost of the outside screen and DVD player. They said they would also subtract the full option cost of the dome, but they would have to take the dome off of the rig. I declined that because I didn't want to have to worry about leaks from the resulting holes in the roof, and because I figured I might change my mind later and want it. Now that MotoSat came out with their full featured, multi-satellite, real dish automated mounts, I wish I did let them take off the dome. The amount they would've credited me would've more than paid for the better dish mount. Oh well, 20/20 hind site. 

So I'm certainly not going to put up two more of those domes! But it is an interesting proposition if money were no object, and in-motion was important. 



Jnel said:


> Couldn't you hook this receiver to your home dish once to see all birds, download guide etc., then put it in RV?
> Of course this would only be good for trips under 9 days.


Good idea! I just tried that, and while there were still a couple delays in locking onto a satellite when I switched birds, it seems to be working. I'll have to keep playing with it to see if there are any hidden issues.

The one issue I had was one of the times when I switched to a channel on a different bird, I got the lost signal alert, as expected. After I moved the dome, and it locked onto the bird, the receiver still showed that it was trying to acquire the signal. I switched to a different channel on the same bird, and the picture came in immediately. I switched back to the first channel, and it came in immediately. All the other times it worked, I wonder why it didn't auto-acquire this one time?



rustamust said:


> The guide will run out after a few days and give you the option to download or not. I have been doing this for years in my motor-home.


When it offers to download the guide, does it still cover all of the channels? Or only the channels on the current satellite? Does it have to be on any particular satellite to load the full program guide? Can you give any more details?


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## rustamust (Feb 22, 2006)

I think all guide data comes from one sat. the 110 if I remember correctly and if not some one will correct me. My Winegard system is a auto find after I select the sat number like 110 and to change to 119 all I do is select and hit seek. Its a 1998 setup. Also I carry a tripod with a 500 and hook it up to the external sat in.


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## ChuckA (Feb 7, 2006)

I believe all sats carry the Guide data for all the other sats. The switch matrix "remembers" which sats can be seen and the Guide for all of them is downloaded. When you run a check switch test, it will remember only the sats you can see at that time. That's why you need to do a switch test only when you can see all the sats.


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## Jason Nipp (Jun 10, 2004)

ShapeShifter said:


> Costly? Ummm.... YOU GOT THAT RIGHT! :eek2:


Sorry, my dry sarcasm somewhat not understandable except for the people who know me well. I threw that out knowing it was not an option.

I used a Raysat with an 811, I had the matrix pre-taught, and had to select orbits manually via the ECM.

To make your life easier you should create a favorites list of channels on each of the 3 orbits. You can find channel breakdown per orbit on the EKB link at the top of the screen.


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## ShapeShifter (Apr 21, 2008)

Jason Nipp said:


> Sorry, my dry sarcasm somewhat not understandable except for the people who know me well. I threw that out knowing it was not an option.


The sarcasm was not lost on me. Still, the shock of the thought caught me by surprise. But if money were no object, it is an interesting solution. You were definitely thinking "outside the box!"



> To make your life easier you should create a favorites list of channels on each of the 3 orbits. You can find channel breakdown per orbit on the EKB link at the top of the screen.


That's a very good idea! I was going to print out a channel list with the different sats identified on it, but the favorites list also has appeal.


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## CABill (Mar 20, 2005)

The Guide data for a DVR (EEPG) used to be on 110 but was moved to 119 some time ago. That is the ONLY source for the 9 day guide.

http://ekb.dbstalk.com/119list.htm
44 Hour Electronic Program Guide EPG 36861 19 119° E*7
9 Day Electronic Program Guide EEPG 36862 18 119° E*7

http://ekb.dbstalk.com/110list.htm
44 Hour Electronic Program Guide EPG 36861 21 110° E*8

All sats have Current & Next show on all transponders.

What you get with a single sat available varies with what receiver you use. A DVR will try to download the 9 day from 119 and fail if you don't "see" 119 at the time.


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## ShapeShifter (Apr 21, 2008)

CABill said:


> What you get with a single sat available varies with what receiver you use. A DVR will try to download the 9 day from 119 and fail if you don't "see" 119 at the time.


When does it download the 9 day guide? At the 3:00 am update?

If so, it sounds like the moral of the story is to leave the dome at 119 when going to bed.


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## CABill (Mar 20, 2005)

3AM update would be one time when it might try. Every time you push and hold the Power button, it does try to validate the switch matrix. If 119 is available, I *think* it checks the modification date on the EEPG and downloads if needed (every 4 hours when I last checked).

I have no experience with your receiver, much less with 119 not available, but I would think you could keep your 9 day w/o issue so that it was only good for 8, 7, ... days if you didn't make 119 available. Once it decides to download it, my experience has been that whatever you HAD is gone until it can complete it.

Leaving it set for 119 at night might be the best, but I don't THINK you'd lose what you have if it is set to 110. Pretty easy to simulate to find out though - Power reset now, and again in 4 hours, to see if it starts to download with it stuck on 110 instead of 119.


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## Jason Nipp (Jun 10, 2004)

If the receiver can't DL the guide update, AFAIK the worst that will happen is the op will get a message stating "the guide is out of date, do you wish to update it now, this could take up to 5 minutes".... In this case he can manually select orbit and manually refresh the guide. But IIRC the primary "Present and Follow" guide should still be intact as long as the receiver sees any of the E* birds.


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## ShapeShifter (Apr 21, 2008)

Well, I had left the dome on 119, and just went out to check the guide, and it appears to be up to date. At least it extends out to Saturday the 17th. I have now switched it over to 61.5 and I'll leave it there overnight and see what happens.

But I have other news. I checked on an RV forum, where there are apparently a lot of people there who have experience with the domes, although they don't have much experience with the Dish receivers. Based on a suggestion there, I have contacted the King-Dome people.

As it stands, my dome has a couple modes where it can automatically switch between pairs of birds when connected to a D* receiver. As it turns out, there is an upgrade available that lets it emulate a Dish1000 and automatically switch between 110/119/129 when connected to an E* receiver. But the better news is that it also has a special Dish1000A mode they created to auto switch beteeen 110/119/61.5. Perfect!

The upgrade involves updating the sofware in the dome, and replacing the tuner (the controller box between the dome and the receiver, into which plugs the keypad/display.) To upgrade the dome software, they are sending out a special box that plugs into the existing tuner, and uploads the software. Then I need to swap out the tuner box, and I should be all set.

There is an up-front cost of $800: a $500 deposit for the software updater box, and $300 for the new tuner. But when the upgrade is done, I will return the updater box and get the $500 back, and I will also return the old tuner for a $100 refund (kind of like a core charge.) So the end result will be a net $200 to upgrade the dome and make it fully automatic: when all is said and done, the tech assured me that all I will have to do is switch channels on the receiver, and the dome will automatically switch to the correct satellite, as needed.

So, while the upgrade is pricey at $200, it will be nice to have it be fully automatic, and not have to teach my wife how to manually switch things back and forth. Besides, $200 is a heck of a lot cheaper than installing two more domes!   

The upgrade should arrive early next week. Hopefully by this time next week I will be up and running in full automatic mode.: :righton:


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## dbconsultant (Sep 13, 2005)

ShapeShifter said:


> So the end result will be a net $200 to upgrade the dome and make it fully automatic: when all is said and done, the tech assured me that all I will have to do is switch channels on the receiver, and the dome will automatically switch to the correct satellite, as needed.


Wow! Sweet! When we both retire and can travel more, we'll probably end up doing this - nice to know somebody came up with something that will work for all 3 sats!

Thanks for the info!


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## Jason Nipp (Jun 10, 2004)

ShapeShifter said:


> So, while the upgrade is pricey at $200, it will be nice to have it be fully automatic, and not have to teach my wife how to manually switch things back and forth. Besides, $200 is a heck of a lot cheaper than installing two more domes!


Do they realize you have a dual tuner receiver? Exactly how does a single King Dome tune to the correct Sat orbit automatically if your 612 is recording an event on tuner two that is on a different orbit than what your watching on tuner 1? :scratch:

I think they may not understand what receiver your using.


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## ShapeShifter (Apr 21, 2008)

Jason Nipp said:


> Do they realize you have a dual tuner receiver? Exactly how does a single King Dome tune to the correct Sat orbit automatically if your 612 is recording an event on tuner two that is on a different orbit than what your watching on tuner 1? :scratch:
> 
> I think they may not understand what receiver your using.


No, they (and I) understand. Yes, there are still limitations. The dome will automatically switch satellites, but only to the satellite needed for tuner 1. If tuner 2 needs the same satellite, it will work, but if it needs a different satellite it will get nothing.

It's a trade-off. The other option is to spend $2,295 (plus tax and installation) on another dome so that the second tuner can do its own thing indendent of the first. I'm not willing to spend that much. I was hesitant enough to spend the $200 on the upgrade. The main reason I have the DVR in there is to be able to use an external hard drive to move shows from the home systems to watch on the road. I don't plan on doing a lot of recording on the road.

What I really want is a single tuner HD DVR, but they don't have such a beast. Actually, an ideal solution would be a single tuner ViP211 with the external HD upgrade to make it a mini-DVR, but that's not available yet (even though they've been talking about it for a couple years now.)


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## ShapeShifter (Apr 21, 2008)

_Update:_ The upgrade arrived today. The tech on the phone last week said I should apply the software update first, then switch out the tuner box. Applying the software update involves plugging a serial cable from the tuner to the special upgrade device, and the upgrade is applied in about 7 minutes.

I did what was instructed, the dome display panel showed "loading, please wait" as expected, and then changed to "ant comm error." Uh-oh. I gave it more than 10 minutes, just in case it was actually loading, and finally gave up.

I then tried swapping out the old tuner box and putting in the new one. Then I tried the upgrade again. This time it went smoothly, with no issues. Cool.

Scrolling through the set satellite list, there are a bunch of new entries, including Dish 110/119, Dish 1000 (110/119/129) and Dish 1000a (110/119/129.) I selected Dish 1000a, and tried a check dish, as instructed.

It automatically switched quite quickly between 110 and 119, but could not lock onto 61.5. It's raining right now, and I have been having problems locking on 61.5 when raining, so that is nothing new. So while I'm not home free, it looks like I'm on the right track, and the upgrade is working.

I will wait until it stops raining, clean the dome (I know it's rather dirty, which is probably not helping) and then try again. I'm close, I can feel it...


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## kbuente (Mar 25, 2007)

Since you are on the road and rarely connected to a phone line do they still make you pay the monthly $5 surcharge for not being on a phone line.

You'd think they'd understand an RV is seldom connected to a phone line and would/could waive for them if you provided proof of the RV ownership.


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## ShapeShifter (Apr 21, 2008)

kbuente said:


> Since you are on the road and rarely connected to a phone line do they still make you pay the monthly $5 surcharge for not being on a phone line.
> 
> You'd think they'd understand an RV is seldom connected to a phone line and would/could waive for them if you provided proof of the RV ownership.


Time will tell, I've only had the service for a couple weeks. But I will be watching the bills, and see what happens...


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## ShapeShifter (Apr 21, 2008)

ShapeShifter said:


> I will wait until it stops raining, clean the dome (I know it's rather dirty, which is probably not helping) and then try again. I'm close, I can feel it...


Another update: Well, it had finally stopped raining, but I had too much other work to do to be able to get back to it right away. Then we went on a trip, and the site had a wonderful clear view of the entire sky, except to the South: there was a solid line of tall trees that completely blocked all satellites except one ExpressVu bird that does me no good. The day after getting back from that trip, the rig went in for service.

I finally got the rig home today, and had a chance to play with the dome again. I plugged in the sat receiver, turned on the TV, and it just plain worked. Every time I changed to a channel on a different bird, the dome switched to the correct satellite, and the picture came in. I could easily access all three required satellites.

It works great, I'm now open for business!


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## DoctorJ (May 13, 2006)

I believe I have the same King-Dome. Since it is a single LNB, it was a royal pain to switch satellites. This required multiple reboots of the dome and and receiver. By polishing the dome (Camping World sells special wipes for that), reception in light rain would be improved. But I was unable to lock onto a signal in certain geographic locations (like outside of Big Bend NP, which is just across from Mexico) although DISH said they have subscribers living there. Suspecting this to be a signal strength issue due to the smaller reflector in the dome, I decided the logical thing was to get a good tripod ($80), a DISH 1000.2 antenna ($125), a Birdog satellite finder ($400) and just run the cable from the antenna to the 211 receiver to get all 3 satellites. The problem with that was security and weather (it required a partially open window plus the leaving the antenna on the ground). The last time, I put the tripod on the rubber roof, wrapped the RG6 cable around the dome and ran the cable through a slightly open window with one of those white ribbon window connectors. All was fine until a wind storm (60 MPH winds) blue the antenna off the roof, twisting and denting it when it hit the ground. So much for that idea! Since staying connected to the news is important to me, when I travel I need a more reliable solution, so next week, I will have Camping World remove the dome and in its place install a Winegard DISH 1000.2 automatic system (about $1700). It won't have the in-motion features of the King-Dome but it is a full sized 1000.2 antenna with automatic aiming and should work better in fringe areas. Camping World said that they could not guarantee they could install it without seeing the vehicle first and with their facility being over 300 miles from here, I hope the trip will not be in vain! I will let you know how things work out. (Disclaimer: I have no financial interest in Camping World.)


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## ShapeShifter (Apr 21, 2008)

DoctorJ said:


> I have a King-Dome, too, same problems, different solution


Talk about reviving an old thread!

I might as well post an update... after the initial success in my last post, things went steadily downhill. It was giving me more and more trouble and would have difficulty locking ont satellites. The tech support at King-Controls was wonderful to work with, and they sent me parts to basically replace everything in the RF path from the LNB to the RF box that it uses to identify satellites. The replaced parts improved the situation, but did not completely eliminate it.

Then, it just decided it wouldn't automatically switch satellites. I got more good help from King-Controls, until they realized I was using a dual tuner receiver. At that point they pretty much said that they don't support dual tuner receivers, and that they can just stop working at times.

I struggled some more with various receivers and options, and have finally unplugged the dome, and I'm using a Dish 500 on a portable ground mount. A Dish 1000 is not an option for me because I'm too far East and can't reliably see 129. So, for now, its either carry a second dish for 61.5, or go without HD: so I get no HD now on the road -- not that big of a loss because after all I am camping and rouging it!

Maybe soon I will be able to get one of the Eastern Arc 1000.4 dishes and I will finally have full functionality.


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## DoctorJ (May 13, 2006)

The folks at Camping World did a beautiful job. We decided to leave the Dome on the roof because it was too close to a roof air condition unit to use its space and removing it might cause more problems than just leaving it. They mounted the new antenna dish in the center of the roof and used the same wiring from the dome. The controller to the antennas rotors they put in a compartment on the passenger side under the front cap and they had to run one cable through the cap into that compartment. The appearance is very professional. Using it is almost idiot proof. You just hold the power button down for 2-3 seconds and it automatically raises and positions itself, setting the azimuth, elevation and skew without my having to do anything else. The whole process takes about 3 minutes. The picture was perfect and I didn't even have to run "check switch." The display on the control shows that you've locked onto all 3 satellites: 110, 119 and 127. Briefly hit the power button again and it starts the stowing procedure, which also takes about 3 minutes. The antenna is the full Dish 1000.2. When I bought the motorhome, the Dish 1000 antennas and MPEG4 receivers were not out. If you are considering satellite TV on your RV, I would avoid the domes and go for real antennas. The signal is stronger and switching satellites is much, much easier. The domes are not cheaper. So-called "in motion" satellites cannot reliably lock onto a satellite since trees, buildings and other terrain will block the signal. You're not supposed to watch TV while you're driving, anyway...


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