# Is there a way to determine if you have a bad LNB?



## pocolocobob (Dec 30, 2011)

I've read through threads that were a few years old, just wondered if there's any new way to determine what could be wrong. My dish has been up for a few years now, and the wiring is older than the current dish/lnb as it was there from the old round dish. Last guy went up there fell off the roof but wasn't injured thank god... won't go back he said its too steep. So I have to address this myself or use a local guy willing to check everything out.

Symptoms: Three HD receivers in the house, all are individually cabled from the slim dish which has the 5LNB thing with three white capped showing. Most times the picture is fabulous. But even on a clear day... I sometimes get intense pixillation and stuttering then searching for signal. Forget it when it rains or even gets cloudy and damp. Leads me to believe that maybe moisture is in LNB or cables? Do I need new end connectors or totally new cables? Can B-Band converters do this?

I need to get this resolved before Winter as I think it'll be semi-useless. My dish is located in the only clear spot on the house with trees behind the house reaching up to 75'. In the Northeast in Western Mass, so which satellites do I need the strongest signals in?

I have another complete new slim dish still in the box that I can swap the LNB with. I was wondering whether I have any alternative that could allow me to use a multiswitch? One line runs to 2nd floor bedroom right from dish/LNB. three lines run down to basement/foundation where they feed a 1st floor receiver and a basement receiver. All three are DVR units 1 HR20, 1 HR24, & 1 HR23.

Thx


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

The first step would be to read all of the satellite signals when you are not having a problem and post them so we can evaluate them.
Sounds like your dish could just need realigning.

Question: are these " _Al__l three are DVR units 1 HR20, 1 HR24, & 1 HR23. _" hooked up to the current dish with one cable each ?


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## NR4P (Jan 16, 2007)

Go to menu/sat settings and go to the following Sats and give us readings

99c
101
103ca
103cb
119 (if present)

I suspect its dish alignment time but your readings will tell us.


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## ZandarKoad (Oct 25, 2009)

There are three methods to test whether an LNB is bad. Measure the following:

Background Noise Floor
Voltage / Current Draw
LO Drift (aka frequency derivation)

None of these can be tested accurately without removing the LNB and isolating it from other possible sources of interference (bad cabling). Also, it's easiest to test these three things with an adequate satellite meter.

I also suspect it's an aiming issue rather than an LNB issue.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I would also do a system test... Press and hold INFO on the white remote to get there.


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## pocolocobob (Dec 30, 2011)

OK... I did a signal strength check per your instructions, here's the results:

99˚(c) Transponder 14 Peak Strength 51%
99˚(s) Transponder 20 Peak Strength 76%
101˚ Transponder 18 Peak Strength 95%
110˚ Transponder 12 Peak Strength 80%
119˚ Not Available
103˚(s) Transponder 17 Peak Strength 76%
103˚(ca) Transponder 9 Peak Strength 50%
103˚(ch) Transponder 13 Peak Strength 54%

Just to be sure, I'm guessing that once I've located the "best" strength for individual satellites and transponders, simply scrolling down to "DONE" saves all those settings? And of course, this was on the HR20, so I should go and check the other two setups as well? I apologize but I'm a 70 year old senior and I probably know just enough to get me in trouble LOL.

Ran the diagnostic test and it said that the dish may need alignment, asked if trees with leaves are blocking anything, etc. and there was a code #43-76-192. We have no landline phones so none are connected to a phone.


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## evan_s (Mar 4, 2008)

Yeah, that looks like an alignment problem. 99c 103ca and 103cb are all your national HD channels and they are all way too low. You want those to be in the 80's or 90's on a clear day not 50's. With them in the 50's you'll loose signal with even minor rain like you are describing. I assume you probably don't want to do the alignment yourself so I'd recommend calling up DTV and getting them to send someone out.

BTW, you are not setting or saving those. It's a real time reading of how good the signal is on that particular sat and transponder. It just cycles through them because it can only check one at a time.


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## NR4P (Jan 16, 2007)

yes call Directv and get a tech out there to get those signals back to 80's and 90's


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## pocolocobob (Dec 30, 2011)

Got a call in to the local authorized guy, have to see when he can get out here. Thinking about topping some of my trees, but I don't know when the tree guy will come. So you guys think the LNB is fine its just the alignment needs to be tweaked? No moisture in the LNB or cable ends?


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

Could just be the trees. From where I am in the country the 99 and 103 sats are about 4 degrees lower in the sky than the 101 and would be the first to get interference from tree leaves.


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## evan_s (Mar 4, 2008)

Alignment is the first issue. The signal levels are pretty typical for that.

the 99s/103s are higher because they are spot beams aimed at specific area's and are stronger. 101 is higher because it is also a stronger signal and less sensitive to alignment issues. Realignment should fix those issues.

119 might be a tree issue tho. You should have signal there and no signal there can cause guide data problems which can lead to frequent reboots of your receivers. This can be avoided by switching to a sl3 that only uses 99/101/103 but that would require a new LNB. 119 does happen to be the lowest on the horizon for someone out on the east coast so can be the most troublesome when you have line of sight issues.

www.dishpointer.com can help give you an idea of where you might have tree problems.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

while it looks more like an alignment issue, without seeing the entire signal strength numbers is very hard to predict what it really is. the transponder that you choose (18) for the 101 is a spotbeam transponder, so it is useless to use to determine your signal.


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## pocolocobob (Dec 30, 2011)

evan_s said:


> Alignment is the first issue. The signal levels are pretty typical for that.
> 
> the 99s/103s are higher because they are spot beams aimed at specific area's and are stronger. 101 is higher because it is also a stronger signal and less sensitive to alignment issues. Realignment should fix those issues.
> 
> 119 might be a tree issue tho. You should have signal there and no signal there can cause guide data problems which can lead to frequent reboots of your receivers. This can be avoided by switching to a sl3 that only uses 99/101/103 but that would require a new LNB. 119 does happen to be the lowest on the horizon for someone out on the east coast so can be the most troublesome when you have line of sight issues.


Actually you may have hit the nail on the head. A few times a day the screen goes blank with a FTV screensaver and the show instantaneously resumes by pushing the orange Select button. I'll have to find out what a SL3 is. I should note that I'm not interested in Spanish or local channels. I have Comcast cable because of the internet and have the bundle (phone, Internet, basic cable) and I get a bunch of local/regional channels via cable. My main concern is getting HD via DTV, and getting _ALL_ the channels.



> www.dishpointer.com can help give you an idea of where you might have tree problems.


I'm going to try one or two of those iPhone apps and see what the tree situation is, but does one have to be sitting on the roof where the dish is to do this properly? Or can I just kind of line myself up with the East side of the house where the dish is mounted and sort of point in the same direction? I have also seen/heard of some people using two (2) dishes which I assume means they are optimizing something?

Incidentally... as noted earlier, I have four (4) wires running from the current setup and because of that I can't have all the DVRs working. I guess I could run a 2nd line to the 2nd floor bedroom DVR, and could I run a single line down to some kind of splitter/multiswitch so the two "ground level" dvrs could get two (2) feeds each? Is that possible?

Thanks for all the help BTW. Still haven't heard back from the local dish contractor, but I don't expect anything on a weekend.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

pocolocobob said:


> Actually you may have hit the nail on the head. A few times a day the screen goes blank with a FTV screensaver and the show instantaneously resumes by pushing the orange Select button.
> 
> I'll have to find out what a SL3 is.
> *SL3 is short for Slimline 3 dish and LNB.*
> ...


Hope this helps.


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## pocolocobob (Dec 30, 2011)

So what makes the SL3 better than the SL5 if they both chase the same basic satellites? I'm gathering that the only thing I should be concerned about is reception on 99c, 103ca, and 103cb to ensure good HD reception. Are the dishes the same or different, I assume the LNB is the one with three devices and no extra width in the bracket.

*Keep in mind I have a HR20, HR23, and a HR24 to deal with as "tuners".*

OK... you're saying I need to put 110v outlet on my roof to power the SWM version? Or I have to run a powered cable up to the roof? Seems to be a LOT simpler to have the SWM or whatever Multiswitch in my basement where the lower level wires come into the house and power it there. Forgive me for being such a dummy, but in laymans terms, whats the difference between a Multiswitch and a SWM?


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

SWM LNB's use a power inserter in the coax where the coax enters the house, or where the receiver is, not on the roof.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

pocolocobob said:


> So what makes the SL3 better than the SL5 if they both chase the same basic satellites? I'm gathering that the only thing I should be concerned about is reception on 99c, 103ca, and 103cb to ensure good HD reception.
> 
> Are the dishes the same or different, I assume the LNB is the one with three devices and no extra width in the bracket.
> *This is deceiving to look at. The SL5 has 3 white plastic housings and the SL3 has just one.*
> ...


I can't explain the actual difference between the SWM LNB and the Multi switch.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

pocolocobob said:


> So what makes the SL3 better than the SL5 if they both chase the same basic satellites?


They don't "chase the same satellites". The SL3 can view 99, 101 and 103. The SL5 sees those three PLUS the 110 and 119.


pocolocobob said:


> I'm gathering that the only thing I should be concerned about is reception on 99c, 103ca, and 103cb to ensure good HD reception. Are the dishes the same or different, I assume the LNB is the one with three devices and no extra width in the bracket.


HD is on 99 and 103. Virtually all SD is on 101. 119 has some SD locals and some foreign language.



pocolocobob said:


> OK... you're saying I need to put 110v outlet on my roof to power the SWM version? Or I have to run a powered cable up to the roof? Seems to be a LOT simpler to have the SWM or whatever Multiswitch in my basement where the lower level wires come into the house and power it there. Forgive me for being such a dummy, but in laymans terms, whats the difference between a Multiswitch and a SWM?


The SWM LNB is powered through the coax that comes down from it. The power inserter is placed indoors, typically by one of the TV locations served.

As to multiswitches, the actual answer is rather complex. The LNB assemblies (both conventional and SWM) have built in multiswitches. There are also external multiswitches available (the WB68 for non-SWM systems, the SWM8 or SWM16 for SWM systems). The WB68 is non-powered. Both the SWM8 and 16 are powered.

The dish/multiswitch FAQ has more explanation on all of this: http://hr20.dbstalk.com/docs/Dish,%2...able FAQ.pdf


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## evan_s (Mar 4, 2008)

pocolocobob said:


> So what makes the SL3 better than the SL5 if they both chase the same basic satellites? I'm gathering that the only thing I should be concerned about is reception on 99c, 103ca, and 103cb to ensure good HD reception. Are the dishes the same or different, I assume the LNB is the one with three devices and no extra width in the bracket.


The dishes are the same so you can swap a SL3 in place of a SL5 with out changing anything else. Both types come in SWiM and non-SWiM. Your current system is the legacy Non-SWiM system. The reason it is better for you is that when you are getting an hd channel from 103ca or cb the receiver needs to get the guide data from 119. If you aren't getting anything on 119 then it has no guide data when on one of those channels and eventually reboots because of it. Since you have signal on 101 and 110 you should have signal on 119. It's possible that it is an alignment issue or a bad lnb but given your location it is most likely blocked by trees. A guide data issue should result in a complete reboot which actually takes a couple minutes usually. It may be happening with out you noticing when you aren't using the box.

Just for reference a SL5 (this one happens to be swim hence only one output)

http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.as...In-Multiswitch-(SL5SWM)&c=DIRECTV Dishes&sku=

A SL3 (also swim)
http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.as...itch-(SL3SWM)&c=DIRECTV Dishes&sku=8546300073

The non-swim sl3 is
http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.as...aKu-Slim-Line-LNB-(SL3)&c=DIRECTV Dishes&sku=


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## pocolocobob (Dec 30, 2011)

Being a novice to all this, I have to ask what are the benefits to ME by swapping out a 5 LNB SL5 setup to a 3 LNB SL3 setup? Just curious... does the SL5 _not_ get the same satellites as the SL3? Does the SL3 get satellites that the SL5 doesn't? Or are you suggesting that only if the LNB is shot? If I'm getting non-HD signals perfectly 24/7 (I am) but I want HD wherever its available (like ESPN, YES, MSNBC, CNN, HBO, SHO, etc.) do I need to receive 119 or not? One posts suggests I need it for the guide and thats why it reverts to a screen saver every once in a while... so if I don't have 119 as a selection, it will get guide information elsewhere? Sorry I'm just trying to figure this out.


I'm guessing that my mix of HD DVR tuners (HR20, HR23, & HR24) precludes me from using a single cable setup, but I can probably figure out some way to get six (6) active lines out of the basic four that leave the roof... right?


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

pocolocobob said:


> Being a novice to all this, I have to ask what are the benefits to ME by swapping out a 5 LNB SL5 setup to a 3 LNB SL3 setup? Just curious... does the SL5 _not_ get the same satellites as the SL3? Does the SL3 get satellites that the SL5 doesn't? Or are you suggesting that only if the LNB is shot? If I'm getting non-HD signals perfectly 24/7 (I am) but I want HD wherever its available (like ESPN, YES, MSNBC, CNN, HBO, SHO, etc.) do I need to receive 119 or not? One posts suggests I need it for the guide and thats why it reverts to a screen saver every once in a while... so if I don't have 119 as a selection, it will get guide information elsewhere? Sorry I'm just trying to figure this out.
> 
> I'm guessing that my mix of HD DVR tuners (HR20, HR23, & HR24) precludes me from using a single cable setup, but I can probably figure out some way to get six (6) active lines out of the basic four that leave the roof... right?


If you do not need the Slimline 5 there is no reason to have to get signals from them and possibly cause a problem.

Copied and pasted from an earlier post.
Incidentally... as noted earlier, I have four (4) wires running from the current setup and because of that I can't have all the DVRs working. I guess I could run a 2nd line to the 2nd floor bedroom DVR, and could I run a single line down to some kind of splitter/multiswitch so the two "ground level" dvrs could get two (2) feeds each? Is that possible?

*If you change to SL3 and also get the SWM version it will control 8 tuners ( dvrs have 2 each ) with only one wire to each of them.* *If you change to this it will also require a 21 volt Power Inserter.*

Your mix of receiver model numbers is not a problem.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

pocolocobob said:


> I'm guessing that my mix of HD DVR tuners (HR20, HR23, & HR24) precludes me from using a single cable setup, but I can probably figure out some way to get six (6) active lines out of the basic four that leave the roof... right?


The only way to turn the 4 lines coming from the dish into 6 lines to feed 3 DVRs is to use a WB68 multiswitch. You run all 4 lines from the dish to the inputs of the WB68, then you run two lines to each DVR from the outputs of the WB68.

If you replace the LNB assembly in your dish to an SWM type LNB (either 3 or 5 LNB), you will have one coax from the dish which can then be split and run to the various DVRs. In this case you only need one coax to each DVR to feed both tuners.


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## pocolocobob (Dec 30, 2011)

OK... I think you guys are saying that for my needs, I can get by with a SL3 replacement (or stick with what I have) but the SL3 is sufficient. And if I want to really "upgrade" or simplify things... I can get the SL3-SWM version which provides a single 75 OHm OUT connector that can be split to service up to eight (8) DVR feeds. 

So if I go that route with a SL3-SWM, can the cable be split say 6' from the base of the dish inside my attic with a 1-IN/3-OUT splitter? That would provide two (2) lines for our bedroom DVR, and allow the third line to travel down 30' outside the house and then back inside to the basement where I'd connect it to a 1-IN/4-OUT+PWR-IN splitter? 

If that works so far, then I simply connect two lines to each DVR, or is it better to run one (1) line to each and use a 1/2 Splitter and two short cables behind each of the two DVRs? That would require more splitters and you tell me if multiple splitters, one in the attic, one power feed splitter inside the basement, and one behind each of the three DVRs is OK as far as signal strength? That's five (5) splitters on the one line. I would put the first splitter in the attic to keep it out of the weather, plus I can crawl to it but I don't have ladders to get me to the outside peak of the roof.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

What you really need to do is to call DirecTV. Tell them you have 3 HD DVRs and a poorly aligned dish. Get them to schedule a service call. It will cost you $49 if you do not have the protection plan and it is free if you pay for the protection plan.
They will supply the labor and any parts that is needed to get your system in first class condition. The $49 pays for it all.


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## evan_s (Mar 4, 2008)

For a SWiM install you only need a single cable for both tuners in the DVR to work so it's much simpler than either way you described it.

You'd use a two way splitter in the attic and it would still need to be power passing. The power passing leg would need to be routed to the basement with another 2 way splitter and then the power passing port on that would need to go to where ever the Power inserter is with one DVR behind the PI. The other port in the basement and in the attic would go to their respective receivers.


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## pocolocobob (Dec 30, 2011)

evan_s said:


> For a SWiM install you only need a single cable for both tuners in the DVR to work so it's much simpler than either way you described it.
> 
> You'd use a two way splitter in the attic and it would still need to be power passing. The power passing leg would need to be routed to the basement with another 2 way splitter and then the power passing port on that would need to go to where ever the Power inserter is with one DVR behind the PI. The other port in the basement and in the attic would go to their respective receivers.


That sounds like a possible approach. Need to get the SL3 SWM, Power Supply, and a power splitter and work from there. Saw a package deal on eBay for a brand-new setup:

DirecTV SWM SL3S 3 LNB Kit 21v Power Supply, 4-Way Splitter for $59

I don't have the plan mainly because the last time a DTV guy came he slid off my roof , and then told me the trees had grown too tall since I had the original old round dish in the '90's. So I got a local authorized private guy to put up the SL5 and aim it. The trees keep growing and I can't move my house LOL, but I emailed him the signal stuff posted above and he texted me back saying he's going to try alignment, plus maybe use a tripod to elevate and stiffen the mount. He does a lot of commercial stuff, and is all over the region doing that. Private homes are maybe 20% of his business I think he said... so I just have to wait until he gives me a date & time now. But he's definitely coming in October.

*UPDATE: My Dish guy called me last night and he has all the SWM stuff I need in his truck, so its just a few days until we can coordinate our schedules and hopefully my problems get solved and all my DVRs work.*


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## pocolocobob (Dec 30, 2011)

Update: My local DTV Contractor came out yesterday and wound up replacing the SlimLine dish, the LNB arm, swapped in a new SL3 SWM LNB, new power supply, powered splitter, re-aimed my dish with his meter and then tweaked it with my help on phone while he was on roof. He also added a bi-pod to stiffen up the mount and said the bigger dishes should all have that. I now have signal strength of 85-100 on all three satellites, no pixillation, guide is correct, all three DVRs on a single cable. Signal strength is probably an average of over 90 as most are 92-96, a few 100's , a few 89's, a couple of 85's. Apparently the trees are blocking 119 as he first tried to fine tune old setup, but we decided that since the dish LNB arm was damaged by the tree that brushed it last Fall, we swapped out everything but the roof bracket, the main tube and the micrometer adjustment gimbal.

Woo-Hoo am I happy!

Edit: One of my existing wires snaked thru my crawl space in the attic had the lower signals. My guy said that the signal was OK... but I might want to replace that cable. He didn't have time and would rather not work in an unfinished crawl space with no floor just joists. Are there "good, better, best" quality cables? Shold I order pre-finished cables from Monoprice or Tartan and if so... just plain RG6 cables?


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

Excellent.
Thanks for the update.


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## funnyfarm299 (Mar 3, 2012)

"pocolocobob" said:


> Update: My local DTV Contractor came out yesterday and wound up replacing the SlimLine dish, the LNB arm, swapped in a new SL3 SWM LNB, new power supply, powered splitter, re-aimed my dish with his meter and then tweaked it with my help on phone while he was on roof. He also added a bi-pod to stiffen up the mount and said the bigger dishes should all have that. I now have signal strength of 85-100 on all three satellites, no pixillation, guide is correct, all three DVRs on a single cable. Signal strength is probably an average of over 90 as most are 92-96, a few 100's , a few 89's, a couple of 85's. Apparently the trees are blocking 119 as he first tried to fine tune old setup, but we decided that since the dish LNB arm was damaged by the tree that brushed it last Fall, we swapped out everything but the roof bracket, the main tube and the micrometer adjustment gimbal.
> 
> Woo-Hoo am I happy!
> 
> Edit: One of my existing wires snaked thru my crawl space in the attic had the lower signals. My guy said that the signal was OK... but I might want to replace that cable. He didn't have time and would rather not work in an unfinished crawl space with no floor just joists. Are there "good, better, best" quality cables? Shold I order pre-finished cables from Monoprice or Tartan and if so... just plain RG6 cables?


If you want to do a new cable, I would use bulk cable, because premade cables will never be the right length. As long as you use quad shield cable, you should be good.


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## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

funnyfarm299 said:


> If you want to do a new cable, I would use bulk cable, because premade cables will never be the right length. As long as you use quad shield cable, you should be good.


You don't need quad shield cable....


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## funnyfarm299 (Mar 3, 2012)

"texasbrit" said:


> You don't need quad shield cable....


He obviously wants to improve his system beyond what is necessary, because when the tech left the system was working fine.


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## pocolocobob (Dec 30, 2011)

Blue Jean Cables has Belden 1505A... don't know if that is quad-shield or what. They say its best for runs under 25 feet. They like Belden 1694A for longer runs. Do you think "bulk" cable is better or worse than either of these, and can I buy bulk locally like at Home Depot or Radio Shack that is of equal quality?

That HR23 upstairs was only showing 80-86 max but downstairs its 85-100 on both, mostly 90's & 100's. Thats why he said the cable upstairs might be questionable but serviceable.


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