# Channel Numbering Annoyance



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Am I the only one annoyed by the "expandable" channels on Hopper/Joey? I mentioned my annoyance in my review of the Hopper/Joey but it does not seem to be a big issue on the forum.

With Hopper/Joey DISH introduced expandable channels. One can tune to channel 99 and see "SiriusXM Music, 73 channels" numbered 099-02 through 099-99 (matching, for the most part, the channels on a SiriusXM receiver). DISH also had the mono "Audio" and stereo "CD" music channels combined on channel 98 before "moving" them back to channels 923 to 981. Personally, I don't see where having a channel on "099-16" instead of "6016" helps ... and perhaps the move of the Audio and CD channels "back" to their former numbers demonstrates the value.

DISH has also created expandable channels for many international packages ... and being able to select channel 608 and see the eight french channels nicely grouped instead of spread out as they once were is good (although the renumbering to 9857-9864 puts them together there as well).

But, in my opinion, where the expandable channels truly fail is with sports. DISH has created expandable channel "412" and (the worst part) taken away the original channel numbers. CSN Chicago is channel 429 on a non-Hopper (and in DISH advertising) but there is no 429 to be found on my Hopper. It is channel 412-19.

The ease of selecting that RSN has been reduced. Where I once could press "429" on my remote to tune to CSNCH I now have to type "41219" ... or use the guide if I can't remember where they put the channel.

This was highlighted this weekend with the addition of PAC12 ... which is currently on channel 413 (no mapping to 412-xx yet) and the use of channels 445 and 446 (as promoted in the press release) for the alternate games. I have no 445 or 446 on my Hopper/Joey. Those channels show up as 412-33 and 412-34 on my Hopper/Joey - unpromoted by DISH.

Expandable channels can be used for good ... having a BTN channel at 438 with all the alts attached instead of looking for channels 5440-5447 is not a bad idea. BTN is promoted as channel 439 so there is some confusion there. But finding 438-01 from 439 is not hard.

Doing the same with PAC12 will not be easy ... the 412-xx range has no gaps for a new channel (the alts will need to be shifted) and all the channels 400-468 are in use ... so some channel shifting will be needed if a PAC12 "expandable" channel is created.

The creation of channel 412 expandable seems to cause more problems than it solves. Perhaps it will go away (or become the PAC12 expandable channel). In any case ... DISH has a mess on their hands.

Please excuse the ramble ... but really, what benefit is there in having RSNs not be on the published channels?


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

You know... I kind of made the same argument with the 922 when they made the skip fwd buttons work differently in the EPG from the other ViP receivers.

I argued that it would be confusing for customers to learn one thing for most ViP receivers, then something exactly opposite for the 922.

This seems like the same kind of thinking to me...

The bundling of channels can be cool... like the Big Ten + alternates, or I could say do the same with ESPN and its alternates... but lumping all the RSNs under an entirely different channel number seems at best confusing.

So I pretty much agree with your assessment.

I guess, though, if Dish is only going to install Hoppers if you get rid of all your other ViP equipment, their argument would probably be "you only have it one way on the Hoppers once you give your other receivers back"...


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Not for those who're using 211/211k with a tailgater.


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## garys (Nov 4, 2005)

I agree with you James, I found Pac 12 immediately on my 722 and I had to search for a bit to find it on the Hopper when I got to work.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

garys said:


> I agree with you James, I found Pac 12 immediately on my 722 and I had to search for a bit to find it on the Hopper when I got to work.


Is that mean you are that unique person who pass all the restrictions and got h2k with 722 ?!


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

P Smith said:


> Is that mean you are that unique person who pass all the restrictions and got h2k with 722 ?!


Read: Home account 722, work account H2K - and please, it is not the topic of the thread.

This thread is about the "expandable/collapsible" EPG channels and how it affects finding channels (especially as DISH advertises the channels only by the "real" channel numbers and not the xxx-xx numbers).

Telling people content is on channel 445 when there is no channel 445 on their receiver (it is channel 412-33). When a channel is advertised content should be on that channel.


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## BillJ (May 5, 2005)

I don't have a Hopper, but I can see this would be pretty confusing. I'm reasonable technically savvy. What about the person who isn't? What about the average homeowner switching to Dish from cable? Do they really want to confuse those new customers?

Thinking of a neighbor who bought the full HD package from our local cable company. His wife couldn't figure out how to work it with the new cable box and all. Within a month they downgraded to a less complicated package and have never gone back. Is that the customer behavior Dish wants to encourage?

If it ain't broken, don't fix it.


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## garys (Nov 4, 2005)

P Smith said:


> Is that mean you are that unique person who pass all the restrictions and got h2k with 722 ?!


No, at home I have 722 and a couple of 622's. Where I work has a Hopper/Joey setup for demo to potential customers.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

BillJ said:


> I don't have a Hopper, but I can see this would be pretty confusing. I'm reasonable technically savvy. What about the person who isn't? What about the average homeowner switching to Dish from cable? Do they really want to confuse those new customers?
> 
> Thinking of a neighbor who bought the full HD package from our local cable company. His wife couldn't figure out how to work it with the new cable box and all. Within a month they downgraded to a less complicated package and have never gone back. Is that the customer behavior Dish wants to encourage?
> 
> If it ain't broken, don't fix it.


We can't stop innovations - we must adapt to it, or that dinosaur's path is waiting for us.


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## 3HaloODST (Aug 9, 2010)

I don't see why they couldn't just keep the same channel numbers and just compress/expand them with the same channel numbers. Or at the very least make it to where when you type in the "old" number it goes to the right channel.

As for the skip fwd/back on the guide, not as big of a deal but it did take a little getting used to.


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## Joe Spears (Dec 24, 2010)

James Long said:


> But, in my opinion, where the expandable channels truly fail is with sports. DISH has created expandable channel "412" and (the worst part) taken away the original channel numbers. CSN Chicago is channel 429 on a non-Hopper (and in DISH advertising) but there is no 429 to be found on my Hopper. It is channel 412-19.
> 
> Please excuse the ramble ... but really, what benefit is there in having RSNs not be on the published channels?


I noticed that Dish now lists the collapsible channel numbers for the Hopper/Joey receivers on the Game Finder utility found here: http://www.mydish.com/gamefinder/


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

I like the collasable channel idea. They just need to clean things up somehow maybe have more of them like Espn alt and regional sports alt and maybe a fox sports group and nba mlb package groups.
Right idea but just needs tweaked somehow.


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## puckwithahalo (Sep 3, 2007)

I will say, most customers that I have talked to really liked it once they knew about it. Particularly the new ones as they were having to learn new channel numbers anyway.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

puckwithahalo said:


> I will say, most customers that I have talked to really liked it once they knew about it. Particularly the new ones as they were having to learn new channel numbers anyway.


They don't know what they are missing ... 

Now where did channel 429 go again? Oh, 41219. Perhaps the issue is that the channels affected are music channels (SiriusXM) and sports channels. Who buys DISH for sports? 
(Except PAC-12, which is on 413 with alts somewhere up high ... no mapping to a sub channel.)


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