# VOD comparison Cable versus DirecTV.



## jtn (Oct 18, 2007)

Is there a difference in quality programming available? Whether from DirecTV or Cable TV? I have to say Cable TV is far more reliable. Due to better planning and launching of the service.


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Reliable?
In what way?

At at one point of reference... Cable-Co's VOD offereing during thier first month of operation with VOD... or after several years of them modifying and improving the service?

------------

And why is this in the Cutting Edge forum? 
Or are you specifically intrested in the DoD performance in the latest version of the software?
(If not... I'll move it to the general DoD discussion forum)


----------



## jtn (Oct 18, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Reliable?
> In what way?
> 
> At at one point of reference... Cable-Co's VOD offereing during thier first month of operation with VOD... or after several years of them modifying and improving the service?
> ...


Planning is the key to success and Cable has done a better job, I respect your loyalty to DirecTV Earl, but take it easy. Many customers of this forum are having unreasonable problems, and it should have been planned better. When I had Comcast, it mirrored my subscription, and I could stream programming without the networking/Internet problems reported on this site.


----------



## MikeR (Oct 6, 2006)

http://southflorida.bizjournals.com/southflorida/stories/2007/10/08/daily51.html


----------



## jtn (Oct 18, 2007)

MikeR said:


> http://southflorida.bizjournals.com/southflorida/stories/2007/10/08/daily51.html


People can sue anybody for anything, just because it makes the newspaper (which is political) doesn't mean it's a valid story.

Comcast VOD works and has from the beginning.


----------



## chrpai (Oct 27, 2007)

I've only used Time Warner's VOD. 

DirecTV GUI is far better looking. Although it could be a little better with anti-aliasing fonts.

Time Warners GUI was easier to use. If felt better organized. For example when I select a category I could then select a Show and drill down another level to see all of the episodes for that show. DirecTV just lists them all in a row which leads to very cluttered screens. I get fustrated and I've yet to page down to the end of a list.

Time Warner hosts the content locally so you are more apt to be able to watch right away. However I've on occassion had a fail to start up a show due to node congestion. DirecTV in theory should make you wait and buffer awhile yet I've been able to start watching right away everytime so far.

From a content perspective, I've never even heard of a lot of the stuff on D* DoD. Unless the menus are very, very well organized, it might make sense to only put the best of the best in DoD rather then a dumping ground of everything not fit to broadcast during the channels regular schedule.

So what's my over all impression? I really, really like the direction I see D* DoD going. Improve some of the usability, finish the spit and polish on the UI and add a bunch of premium content and it'll rock. I'm happy it's here.


----------



## jtn (Oct 18, 2007)

chrpai said:


> I've only used Time Warner's VOD.
> 
> DirecTV GUI is far better looking. Although it could be a little better with anti-aliasing fonts.
> 
> ...


Thank you for being honest.


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

jtn said:


> Planning is the key to success and Cable has done a better job, I respect your loyalty to DirecTV Earl, but take it easy. Many customers of this forum are having unreasonable problems, and it should have been planned better. When I had Comcast, it mirrored my subscription, and I could stream programming without the networking/Internet problems reported on this site.


Well last time I checked... COMCAST didn't use the Internet or Networking..
So that is a major difference in the distribution of the two models...

So again... I ask... Cable did it 100% correct in their initial offerings?... was all their planning perfect? Or did they adjust and improve the service over time, based on reaction in the market and when it "spread it wings" over a larger installation base.

And it has nothing to do with loyalty... just a bit of common sense and expectations of services when they are first rolled out / launched.

When was the last time a Cable-Co launched anything to their entire consumer/market base at once time? Reason why you might not see any of their initial "growing pains", is that they keep them issolated to some markets..... and in some cases.. some features never leave those markets.


----------



## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

I'm not going to jump into this fray because I don't have anything to compare (never saw DOD). Just curious - how many titles does DOD currently offer? Is there a decent amount of free stuff? Do they include feeds for channels not on offered on their live feeds? I'm just really curious how DirecTV decided to tackle this.


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

I am moving this thread to the general DoD discussion forum.


----------



## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

I had a functioning network before DOD. Amazingly, I have had no issues whatsoever with DOD. Every download has worked. I have used this a good deal for pulling down shows that my kids would enjoy.

I do have suggestions but they are polish, not functionality:

Channel down on the main page should not change channels, especially when the channel is XL Virus
I would like for the display of the lists to be a bit faster. I am assuming this is a general guide issue.
I would like to see more letterbox content in general. I understand HD download times may be prohibitive for many. Letterbox shows might ease the pain of that.


----------



## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

jpl said:


> I'm not going to jump into this fray because I don't have anything to compare (never saw DOD). Just curious - how many titles does DOD currently offer? Is there a decent amount of free stuff? Do they include feeds for channels not on offered on their live feeds? I'm just really curious how DirecTV decided to tackle this.


Most of the content is free if you subscribe to the corresponding channels. The number of programs, I would guess to be over 2000 (I am sure someone has a specific number out there).

There is content that is not tied to an existing broadcast channel. Some of the kids/concert content I know is separate from regular channel offerings.


----------



## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

I was disappointed that the poll was specific to Comcast. There are great portions of the country that do not have Comcast as a provider...


----------



## F1 Fan (Aug 28, 2007)

I have used a friends cable vod once before. It was ok. The download started quickly. He also had no networking problems because it is cable and everything comes down the cable.

However because I get D* over the sat and vod over the internet each of my HR20/21s has now 3 tuners. I can record 3 shows at one time and watch a 4th. Bring on remote booking and I can do this on my phone! 

You cannot compare the two services yet though because (as Earl says though not directly) D*'s VOD is in BETA. That means it is clunky, rough round the edges, will no doubt fail at some point and has a horrible UI and Navigation that can be imporved, whereas cable have already done this. The keyword is BETA. I know some will argue that it is National on the 700 so how can it be a beta but Microsoft and others do it - it is called RTM but is still not the finished product. Unlike Microsoft though D* doenst put up a screen when you first install or everytime you use it to let you know it is still beta. Maybe you want that annoyance just to remind you?

D* was stuck between a rock and a hard place. So many CE'ers were doing the beta and liking it but some didnt have it and whined constantly that D* decided to release it to a larger non CE audience as a BETA. Only to have others whine that they have it.

Whining doenst help anyone. Constructive feedback goes a long way. 

But dont compare the two until at least 12 months down the line for D*.


----------



## jtn (Oct 18, 2007)

F1 Fan said:


> I have used a friends cable vod once before. It was ok. The download started quickly. He also had no networking problems because it is cable and everything comes down the cable.
> 
> However because I get D* over the sat and vod over the internet each of my HR20/21s has now 3 tuners. I can record 3 shows at one time and watch a 4th. Bring on remote booking and I can do this on my phone!
> 
> ...


Is this really a deal to make people buy networking/ Internet equipment, which so far is not working for many as reported on this site? It is a ploy to make people run out and buy networking stuff they don't need. Maybe? Who knows? Comcast made sure they didn't burden the public or customers with BETA that is failing so badly. Loyal DirecTV customers are fudging the polls to make it appear all is well when it is not. So buyer beware.


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

F1 Fan said:


> D* was stuck between a rock and a hard place. So many CE'ers were doing the beta and liking it but some didnt have it and whined constantly that D* decided to release it to a larger non CE audience as a BETA. Only to have others whine that they have it.


Actually in fairness... that particular rock and hard place, didn't come into play.

Based on the feedback from the CE people, they felt that at least in it's current form... it was viable enough to get out there to a much larger population and start to get more feedback about the intial offering/features/ect...

Then keeping it issolated to a few thousands users.


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

jtn said:


> Is this really a deal to make people buy networking/ Internet equipment, which so far is not working for many as reported on this site? It is a ploy to make people run out and buy networking stuff they don't need. Maybe? Who knows? Comcast made sure they didn't burden the public or customers with BETA that is failing so badly. Loyal DirecTV customers are fudging the polls to make it appear all is well when it is not. So buyer beware.


Really... Failing badly?

So you have seen the actuall directv internal numbers on it? Or just basing in the posts here in the forum.

And this has absolutely nothing to do about people buying networking/internet equipment... as if it was... you could bet that DirecTV would have a contract in place with Cisco/Linksys or DLink to have branded equipment out there ready to go.

COMCAST burdens people in so many other ways... like saying they have an HD channel... but only in 1 or 2 markets... but never telling all the other markets when they are going to get it.

OR maybe stringing people along for almost 3 years for the ComcastTiVo and now only having it in 1 market (and that is still debatable), with zero to no information on when others are going to get access to it.

Loyal DirecTV users are fudging the numbers.... and Loyal DirecTV haters are not putting up false "warnings" are other topics of discussions....
What other conspiracies do you have in there....


----------



## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

I give DirecTV kudos for at least wading into these waters. VOD is a very nice feature that, once you get used to, is hard to give up. I fully expect that their service will start small (200 titles - thanks, greg for that info), and will be somewhat rough. It takes time to scale up a system like this to accomodate thousands of titles, and have it work flawlessly. As for Comcast getting it right all the time, I don't know about that. I've heard some very nice things about their VOD offerings (they probably have the largest library out there), but whether it works all the time or not really depends on where you live. I've read many postings from former Comcast customers who just got fed up with their VOD conking out all the time (half of their feeds wouldn't work, e.g.).

Like I said, though, I give DirecTV credit for getting into this game, and, frankly, for turning it around so quickly. I really expected this to be like the rollout of Gamelounge, where it took a year for it to get activated on some systems. Instead, the turnaround on DOD has been impressively quick. The only thing that stinks is that you need to have a broadband connection to be able to use DOD, but I don't see how else they get around that particular requirement.


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Umm... 200 titles?

Just a quick look at DoD remote booking (which I have access to..)
There are 2184 titles available.


I am not sure where the 200 comes from.


----------



## MikeR (Oct 6, 2006)

I'm hoping that this turns into a thread that will bring the best cable implementation ideas.....

This service has worked perfectly for me, if anything...I get more frustrated with my cable co for not providing the quality service they are advertising.

http://www.tvpredictions.com/cvideo101707.htm


----------



## jtn (Oct 18, 2007)

MikeR said:


> I'm hoping that this turns into a thread that will bring the best cable implementation ideas.....
> 
> This service has worked perfectly for me, if anything...I get more frustrated with my cable co for not providing the quality service they are advertising.
> 
> http://www.tvpredictions.com/cvideo101707.htm


So far the majority of DirecTV CE users cannot get the VOD to work. So I disagree. :nono2:


----------



## jtn (Oct 18, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Umm... 200 titles?
> 
> Just a quick look at DoD remote booking (which I have access to..)
> There are 2184 titles available.
> ...


Have you tested to see if they work? I doubt it.


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

jtn said:


> Have you tested to see if they work? I doubt it.


All 2180? No...

Has anyone downloaded all of them?
Is anyone ever going to download all of them?

Have you traveled to all parts of the COMCAST network (since it is regional based), and tested all the VOD downloads?


----------



## jtn (Oct 18, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Really... Failing badly?
> 
> So you have seen the actuall directv internal numbers on it? Or just basing in the posts here in the forum.
> 
> ...


DirecTV has made many false promises and lies as we should say. Making many of it's customers buy equipment that absolutely doesn't help. But costs needless money, we all are not born with a silver spoon in our mouths.


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

jtn said:


> So far the majority of DirecTV CE users cannot get the VOD to work. So I disagree. :nono2:


Really? Based on what numbers...

Given there are over 1,000 active CE participants... and there were several hundred more the weeks folloing DoD (and caught the second opportunity)..

There were over 500 distinct CE users that posted they had problems with DoD?

So please... what reference point are you using that the majority of DirecTV CE users cannot get DoD to work?


----------



## jtn (Oct 18, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> All 2180? No...
> 
> Has anyone downloaded all of them?
> Is anyone ever going to download all of them?
> ...


So you admit then neither are honorable? :nono2:


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

jtn said:


> DirecTV has made many false promises and lies as we should say. Making many of it's customers buy equipment that absolutely doesn't help. But costs needless money, we all are not born with a silver spoon in our mouths.


Again... what the heck are you talking about ?

You mean you want Networking access... without networking equipment?

Honestly... if you can afford Broadband access, and HR20, and HDTV... then yes... I would think it is a fair estimate that you could afford the marginal cost of wire, maybe a router, and wireless options (if that is the path you need to go).... to get your HR20 connected.

This isn't "silver spoon" dollars we are talking here... you can find NAT routers for like $25 at times.


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

jtn said:


> So you admit then neither are honorable? :nono2:


In what context?

I didn't say that I downloaded that 2180 titles...

Just that the system lists 2180 titles available for download.

I am not going to audit every option...

NetFlix states they have over 80,000 titles available... shoudl I start to go through and rent everyone to make sure that is true to?


----------



## jtn (Oct 18, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> In what context?
> 
> I didn't say that I downloaded that 2180 titles...
> 
> ...


So you will say DirecTV is honest without auditing? So why should anyone trust what you say? You just assume everything DirecTV says is true? Hmmmm, not.


----------



## F1 Fan (Aug 28, 2007)

jtn said:


> So far the majority of DirecTV CE users cannot get the VOD to work. So I disagree. :nono2:


I disagree with that statement.

I say the majority of them can get VOD.

I downloaded the CE for the HR20-100 for the first time last weekend. I did nothing else to it. After the reboot I had the On Demand menu but nothing else (as expected). In the morning all VOD content was there as I expected - it takes time to download.

No reboots, no pulling wires, hair or toy throwing. Just patience for a few hours.

I think the majority of problems people are having are to do with networking. That is not an area I would think D* would like to go into with support as there are so many variables.

VOD has to come over the internet - it would be next to impossible to do it any other way. For a satellite provider to offer VOD is a brave step in itself. To have to contend with the networking side of things is not going to be easy for them

But again you cannot compare up and running select market vod, with national beta few weeks old VOD.


----------



## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Umm... 200 titles?
> 
> Just a quick look at DoD remote booking (which I have access to..)
> There are 2184 titles available.
> ...


I just got it from someone else's posting. I asked some questions about DOD, and someone responded that there were some 200 titles on DOD.


----------



## jtn (Oct 18, 2007)

F1 Fan said:


> I disagree with that statement.
> 
> I say the majority of them can get VOD.
> 
> ...


DirecTV should have waited so you would not be inconvenienced or disappointed. So far based on what you say it has not worked as it should compared to cable tv.


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

jtn said:


> So you will say DirecTV is honest without auditing? So why should anyone trust what you say? You just assume everything DirecTV says is true? Hmmmm, not.


Your kidding right?

I shouldn't believe that if they list 2180 shows in the VOD library, available for me to schedule and download... that they don't actually have those 2180 shows on the server to downlod?

Have you audited everything that COMCAST has put up there...
Or should we just believe everything they say, because they said it?


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

jtn said:


> DirecTV should have waited so you would not be inconvenienced or disappointed. So far based on what you say it has not worked as it should compared to cable tv.


So in your wisdom... what should they have changed?

Waited until all their customer base installed home networks... and let them sit around dormant for months and months and months..?


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

jpl said:


> I just got it from someone else's posting. I asked some questions about DOD, and someone responded that there were some 200 titles on DOD.


Gotcha...

Maybe 200 on one single DoD "channel"... but there are a lot more out there...


----------



## jtn (Oct 18, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> So in your wisdom... what should they have changed?
> 
> Waited until all their customer base installed home networks... and let them sit around dormant for months and months and months..?


Not at all they should wait until the DirecTV is capable of offering reliable service, and should have tested it like the cable companies did. That's all. DirecTV is not ready. I can see you are in a mode to defend them at all costs. That's your choice. I agree to disagree. Not all agree with you, but when others point out your mistakes Earl you admit it, but not with me or certain members. Fine don't.


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

jtn said:


> Not at all they should wait until the DirecTV is capable of offering reliable service, and should have tested it like the cable companies did. That's all. DirecTV is not ready. I can see you are in a mode to defend them at all costs. That's your choice. I agree to disagree. Not all agree with you, but when others point out your mistakes Earl you admit it, but not with me or certain members. Fine don't.


Please... I have asked you a few times now...

Point me to the basis of your argument that the service is THAT bad....

I will be more then glad to admit that I am wrong, when you can point me to a source of information that discredits what I am saying.

But yet you continue to attack me... but not the points I am making...
I am saying nothing about you as a person... just the points that you are making, and asking you to validate them with information.


----------



## F1 Fan (Aug 28, 2007)

jtn said:


> DirecTV should have waited so you would not be inconvenienced or disappointed. So far based on what you say it has not worked as it should compared to cable tv.


I wasnt inconvenienced. it was midnight and i went to bed - i tend to do that daily.

I am not disappointed in the beta either. My only minor "disappointment" is no real HD content yet. But I am used to betas and limited content.

I was away when the remote booking list went up and i have since put my card # in but not activated. So I dont have access to Earls 2800 title count. On the other hand I have no reason to doubt him at all. And probably for the same reason he has no reason to doubt the title count the computer is giving him. Ok there maybe the odd duplicate in there maybe it is only 2500 or even 2000 but that is still enough to keep most beta testers happy for now.

So far from being disappointed I am pleased Directv didnt make me wait.

Cable TV didnt work for me from day 1. I couldnt wait to switch and I did at the first opportunity I had.

As for buying extra costly networking hardware you mentioned - I am not sure anyone did and those that did probably didnt get a demanding letter from D* making them buy it. Most people have a home pc and some sort of broadband connection. So from there it is very simple to connect the HR20 to get VOD. Personally I went to the time and expense (30 minutes + $15) to run cat 5 cable from my main network room through the attic and dropped it down the run with my coax to the HR20. Wired, fast, hidden away and no wireless drop outs and little expense.

I could have bought a wireless ethernet adapter but chose to go wired. I even took advantage of it and moved some more networking components into the room but that was my choice. But honestly most people can network their HR20 for a lot less than $50 (one off fee) - which considering the content you will get (plus media sharing - which I use almost as much as VOD) is worth it.


----------



## jtn (Oct 18, 2007)

F1 Fan said:


> I wasnt inconvenienced. it was midnight and i went to bed - i tend to do that daily.
> 
> I am not disappointed in the beta either. My only minor "disappointment" is no real HD content yet. But I am used to betas and limited content.
> 
> ...


I have never had an issue with Comcast VOD/InDemand service it always started instantly, no need to wait hours to download. I see on the DirecTV guide that there are many supposedly available, but if you can't download them, how helpful is that? I'm not lying about the many complaints other members in this forum are reporting. So you don't have to like me or agree but I don't agree with you.


----------



## F1 Fan (Aug 28, 2007)

jtn; said:


> Not at all they should wait until the DirecTV is capable of offering reliable service, and should have tested it like the cable companies did. That's all. DirecTV is not ready.


Now I am lost with your argument.

D* hasnt officially released it. You say they should wait until they are capable of offering a reliable service and should have tested it. Isnt that what a beta is? When my company writes software it goes firstly into alpha testing. Then beta testing to a very small few (The CE'ers here) then to a larger base of testers and then finally to the public.

This is what D* are doing. They have gone to a larger test base, but still testers. It is plain everywhere you see VOD you will see the word BETA.

How can they test if you wont let us test it?


----------



## jtn (Oct 18, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Please... I have asked you a few times now...
> 
> Point me to the basis of your argument that the service is THAT bad....
> 
> ...


Earl as quick as you are to respond to me, many, many members of this forum have reported issues, haven't seen you helping them. Why not get off my back and try helping the members of this forum get those so called 2000+ downloads from VOD.


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

jtn said:


> I have never had an issue with Comcast VOD/InDemand service it always started instantly, no need to wait hours to download. I see on the DirecTV guide that there are many supposedly available, but if you can't download them, how helpful is that? I'm not lying about the many complaints other members in this forum are reporting. So you don't have to like me or agree but I don't agree with you.


So the "complaints" constitue... MAJORITY of users? As that is what you stated just a few posts back.

I am not saying the system is perfect, and that people have not had issues with it...

Just like you can't say COMCAST has been perfect for everyone of their customers.

I don't expect DoD to ever been 100% perfect for 100% of the user base... just isn't practical given all the factors involved in it.


----------



## jtn (Oct 18, 2007)

F1 Fan said:


> Now I am lost with your argument.
> 
> D* hasnt officially released it. You say they should wait until they are capable of offering a reliable service and should have tested it. Isnt that what a beta is? When my company writes software it goes firstly into alpha testing. Then beta testing to a very small few (The CE'ers here) then to a larger base of testers and then finally to the public.
> 
> ...


It has gone national once 0x1B4 went national. It still is in BETA phase, but that is the latest national download which everyone will get automatically.


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

jtn said:


> Earl as quick as you are to respond to me, many, many members of this forum have reported issues, haven't seen you helping them. Why not get off my back and try helping the members of this forum get those so called 2000+ downloads from VOD.


So... you want me to leave you alone, so you can continue posting... without someone challenging you on your position?

If so... open your open forum board.


----------



## jtn (Oct 18, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> So the "complaints" constitue... MAJORITY of users? As that is what you stated just a few posts back.
> 
> I am not saying the system is perfect, and that people have not had issues with it...
> 
> ...


I am basing it on what I read on this URL DBStalk. As I know you are aware of Earl.


----------



## jtn (Oct 18, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> So... you want me to leave you alone, so you can continue posting... without someone challenging you on your position?
> 
> If so... open your open forum board.


No treat me the same as the rest, no better or worse. Prove yourself instead of saying standard members are not.

Unless it complements DirecTV then we get an ear full.

Do you own DBStalk? I thought you said you don't get paid for this site?


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

jtn said:


> I am basing it on what I read on this URL DBStalk. As I know you are aware of Earl.


What URL.... because obviously... I am not aware of it.

Can you point me to the URL here at DBSTalk, that took a survey of all the users... and consitutes that basis of your argument that the majority of CE users have had issues with DoD...

That's it.... that is all I am asking... 
Point me to the exact thread that you are using as the basis of the argument... and I will leave you alone to post what ever you want about DoD and comparing it to comcast in this particular thread.


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

jtn said:


> No treat me the same as the rest, no better or worse. Prove yourself instead of saying standard members are not.
> 
> Unless it complements DirecTV then we get an ear full.


I treat you just like any other user that comes up here... and posts similar topics and assumptions as you have today.

I have treated you no different then anyone else.


----------



## jtn (Oct 18, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> What URL.... because obviously... I am not aware of it.
> 
> Can you point me to the URL here at DBSTalk, that took a survey of all the users... and consitutes that basis of your argument that the majority of CE users have had issues with DoD...
> 
> ...


Oh common Earl just read the many posts on this site, very funny. :lol:


----------



## jtn (Oct 18, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I treat you just like any other user that comes up here... and posts similar topics and assumptions as you have today.
> 
> I have treated you no different then anyone else.


I base knowledge on what members are posting including you. That is what this site is for isn't it?


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

jtn said:


> Oh common Earl just read the many posts on this site, very funny. :lol:





jtn said:


> I base knowledge on what members are posting including you. That is what this site is for isn't it?


So wait...

You are making the assumption, that just because some users have had issues with it.... that ALL the users are having issues? or even that the MAJORITY of the users are having issues?


----------



## jtn (Oct 18, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> So wait...
> 
> You are making the assumption, that just because some users have had issues with it.... that ALL the users are having issues? or even that the MAJORITY of the users are having issues?


The bulk of the users are complaining Earl, not reporting they are happy with the performance of VOD/DOD, many are reporting issues.

Isn't that why DBStalk exists to help people solve issues, and answer questions?


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

jtn said:


> The bulk of the users are complaining Earl, not reporting they are happy with the performance of VOD/DOD, many are reporting issues.


Really?

The bulk of the over 1,000 CE downloaders that enabled VOD in the first past... They are all reporting issues?


----------



## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

Not voting on this one. IMHO, not fare to compare something that's just making it out to the public and is clearly labeled a BETA against a feature that's been out for a couple of years at least. Come back and ask again once D* says this is the finished product then I'll vote.


----------



## jtn (Oct 18, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Really?
> 
> The bulk of the over 1,500 CE downloaders that enabled VOD in the first past... They are all reporting issues?


It may be on the guide (nice eye candy) but doesn't mean they are getting to download it successfully. Many are complaining about this.



Earl Bonovich said:


> So wait...
> 
> You are making the assumption, that just because some users have had issues with it.... that ALL the users are having issues? or even that the MAJORITY of the users are having issues?


If I take your advice, why should I trust what the so called 1500 say, if you are right?


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

jtn said:


> It may be on the guide (nice eye candy) but doesn't mean they are getting to download it successfully. Many are complaining about this.
> 
> If I take your advice, why should I trust what the so called 1500 say, if you are right?


Well... it is obvious you are not going to trust what anyone says... and only trust what you can touch and see with your own eyes.

So why trust anyone here, or anywhere then?

And with that.... bye bye... you can have your thread back to your self, and go after what ever you are trying to get at.... 
Because more and more... you have a point you are trying to get too... regardless of the facts that point in the other direction..


----------



## jtn (Oct 18, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Well... it is obvious you are not going to trust what anyone says... and only trust what you can touch and see with your own eyes.
> 
> So why trust anyone here, or anywhere then?


No I find many posts helpful, and I find some things are up to muster. The same as you. If you find something you don't agree with you say so Earl, and I do too.


----------



## SDizzle (Jan 1, 2007)

I have DOD on all 3 of my HR20-700s that I pulled via CE, and have never had 1 problem with downloads or anything.


----------



## SDizzle (Jan 1, 2007)

I have to admit, this is the first time that I have seen Earl go back and forth with someone! He normally is bouncing around in all the threads long enough to answer a question or two, then he is gone......kinda like Superman.:lol:


----------



## Ryanm86 (Oct 18, 2006)

Its unfair to have a vote this early in the game.


----------



## Ryanm86 (Oct 18, 2006)

I am amazed to see that this thread isn't closed yet. Its pretty ridiculous to start a topic such as this.


----------



## chrpai (Oct 27, 2007)

SDizzle said:


> I have to admit, this is the first time that I have seen Earl go back and forth with someone! He normally is bouncing around in all the threads long enough to answer a question or two, then he is gone......kinda like Superman.:lol:


I don't know.... I'm new around here, but personally I don't like it when the owner is that involved in every thread. I remember Earl back in the Tivo forums and I love what he's done with the CE/Beta stuff.... but I get a little weary when the facilitator is so strongly opinionated and involved in every single thread.

I was on another board for a few years and one day I PM'd a moderator asking why something really innocent was deleted. Never recieved a reply except `banned`. Ohwell, I guess that's the way of boards these days...


----------



## vollmey (Mar 23, 2007)

I'll put my vote in, I have never had a problem with VOD/DOD. My HR20-700 is on a wireless connection, give it a minute or so an I can watch a movie or show with out catching up with the dowload.

Works great.


----------



## Ryanm86 (Oct 18, 2006)

chrpai said:


> I don't know.... I'm new around here, but personally I don't like it when the owner is that involved in every thread. I remember Earl back in the Tivo forums and I love what he's done with the CE/Beta stuff.... but I get a little weary when the facilitator is so strongly opinionated and involved in every single thread.
> 
> I was on another board for a few years and one day I PM'd a moderator asking why something really innocent was deleted. Never recieved a reply except `banned`. Ohwell, I guess that's the way of boards these days...


Shhh "Those We Don't Speak Of"


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

chrpai said:


> I don't know.... I'm new around here, but personally I don't like it when the owner is that involved in every thread. I remember Earl back in the Tivo forums and I love what he's done with the CE/Beta stuff.... but I get a little weary when the facilitator is so strongly opinionated and involved in every single thread.
> 
> I was on another board for a few years and one day I PM'd a moderator asking why something really innocent was deleted. Never recieved a reply except `banned`. Ohwell, I guess that's the way of boards these days...


FYI.. I am not the owner...

Umm... I haven't banned or deleted anything...
Can't I be a passionate hobbiest... and also be a moderator ?

Or does becoming a moderator mean I can no longer have an opinion on something?


----------



## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

> Or does becoming a moderator mean I can no longer have an opinion on something?


Pretty much.  When I was an Administrator here, I wasn't nearly as vocal or opinionated about anything as I am now. Not that I didn't go off every now and then, but lot of people expect admins and mods not to have opinions and I played into that.


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Okay...

If you have an issue with the way I comport myself, or think I have violated a rule of the site... report the post... or PM my forum boss... Chris Blount


:backtotop


----------



## chrpai (Oct 27, 2007)

Sorry for bringing it up....


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

chrpai said:


> Sorry for bringing it up....


No big deal... it isn't the first time... isn't going to be the last...
If you are thining it... I am sure someone else is as well.


----------



## Sharkie_Fan (Sep 26, 2006)

jtn said:


> Not at all they should wait until the DirecTV is capable of offering reliable service, and should have tested it like the cable companies did. That's all. DirecTV is not ready. I can see you are in a mode to defend them at all costs. That's your choice. I agree to disagree. Not all agree with you, but when others point out your mistakes Earl you admit it, but not with me or certain members. Fine don't.


Why should they have tested it any further? It's a BETA. They're allowing any Larry, Moe, or Curly to test it for them.

Are there bound to be problems... absolutely, that's sort of the nature of a BETA test.... and kind of the point - to try and weed out the problems.

And, besides... without having followed the DOD threads REAL close, the threads I've read, the "I have's" far outweigh the "Have Nots".... Not that there aren't those (yourself included, it would seem) who are having problems, but it would seem that the majority is working.


----------



## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Gotcha...
> 
> Maybe 200 on one single DoD "channel"... but there are a lot more out there...


Cool - thanks, Earl. Call me a geek, but I just find this stuff interesting. I like understanding how these various providers architect their systems, especially a tough nut like 'how does a dbs company provide an on-demand service.' Like I said, I think this is a hard one for a dbs company to offer, and I give them credit for putting it together.


----------



## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

I have no experience with DirecTVs Video On Demand or Comcasts Video On Demand, but I will share some opinions on what I have experienced with Time Warner over the past year and a half.

VOD is something I never understood the hype of until I went back to cable, to me a DVR was always good enough. But after using it, Video On Demand really compliments DVR service very nicely. 

Structure:

I feel Time Warner organizes the content very nicely, for example we have a channel called 'Kids On Demand' which features content from Nick, Noggin, PBS Kids and BBC Kids and 'Lifestyles On Demand' which features content from HGTV, DIY and Food Network. Some channels are not combined like CNN, Court TV and the premiums, altogether I believe it's about 30 individual channels of On Demand with content from probably about 50 different channels. 

Content:

Content is pretty good for the most part. Some of it doesn't get updated very often, but some of it is always changing. The premiums are probably the most dynamic. Due to the amount of shows I record on Monday nights, when the fall season started, I removed Californication from my Scheduled Recordings and just watched it on Showtime On Demand. New episodes were added the following day. I also watched the entire season of Dexter on Sho on Demand. The movie selections are also pretty good. I used to watch South Park on Comedy Central on Demand and Crank Yankers and The Man Show on G4 On Demand, the same episode would stay in the library for weeks on end. 

It is disappointing that there is no regular HD On Demand programming, all HD On Demand is current movies at $3.95. The equivalent to HD PPV on satellite.

Quality/Reliability:

Out of the probably 100+ times I’ve used the On Demand functionality, getting content was always quick, usually takes about 15 seconds to start. Only three times did I get an error, once was due to a VOD server crash, the other two I have no idea. Picture quality is on par with the rest of my cable line up. The premium channels are at a higher resolution. Watching something HBO On Demand it looks like your watching in on HBO. G4 is at a lower rez and compressed more, and G4 On Demand content is the same way.

Gripes:

Slow fast forward, no time progress bar and if it’s paused to long it takes you back to the main VOD library. You can pick up at the point it was paused at, but it can be annoying at times.


----------



## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

Steve Mehs said:


> I have no experience with DirecTVs Video On Demand or Comcasts Video On Demand, but I will share some opinions on what I have experienced with Time Warner over the past year and a half...


Steve, your experience lines up very nicely with mine. When I was with directv, and comcast launched VOD, my first thought was 'they can keep it... my dvr works just fine!' Then I left directv, and went to fios, and I have to say, I wouldn't give it up willingly. It's the reason I won't get a tivo - I don't want to give up VOD.

I agree with much of what you wrote. I think Verizon does a pretty good job with organizing their VOD, for the most part. I love the fact that they have lots of kids shows on there, but it would be nice if they had more episodes of some of those shows, and if they updated them more often.

I have yet to get HD VOD at all - Verizon is adding it, in limited capacity, this year. VA already has it, and I can't wait until we get it. My gripes are the same as your's too - that you can't ffwd beyond the first speed is a big nit in my opinion, and navigating is painful (I'm looking forward to Verizon's new IMG guide s/w which lets you search on VOD titles, as well as 'bookmark' the ones you want to watch). One other nit - I really wish Verizon would learn to take credit for stuff they've done. They add stuff to VOD all the time, but you would never know about it. And Verizon's architecture is very different than everyone else's with regard to VOD. They run VOD via their IP feed - it goes through my router, even though it's fed in real time. As a result, I've had some very minor issues only once or twice (pause too long, e.g, and you lose the connection - hit play again, and the connection - which only takes about 3 - 4 seconds - has to get reestablished -- there was one time where it wouldn't reconnect... and I had to get out, and resume play -- they put any recent viewings on a recently viewed list, and you can resume where you left off just like with a recording).

Even with all of its limitations, I really love that VOD service - in particular:

- I love the fact that episodes of shows are on VOD. I found out that I can get rid of my series for shows like Monk and Psyche... and I've caught every episode of Bionic Woman through the NBC VOD offerings.

- I have their movie pack, and I've found that I watch more movies on Starz VOD than I do via a live feed, or even recorded on my DVR.

- I particularly love the fact that it gives a provider more options. We keep getting feeds for channels that fios doesn't currently carry, e.g. Those in VA now get History HD feeds, and we now have feeds for channels like Illusion, Lime (whatever the heck THAT is), and FEARnet (I wish I would have known about that one on Halloween night when my wife and I were in the mood for a good horror movie).

- I also really like the fact that it gives you the ability to watch stuff without the need for a DVR. Get a standard STB, and you can watch stuff on demand too - including having the ability to pause, rwd, and ffwd.


----------



## Sharkie_Fan (Sep 26, 2006)

Steve Mehs said:


> I have no experience with DirecTVs Video On Demand or Comcasts Video On Demand, but I will share some opinions on what I have experienced with Time Warner over the past year and a half.
> 
> VOD is something I never understood the hype of until I went back to cable, to me a DVR was always good enough. But after using it, Video On Demand really compliments DVR service very nicely.


I've never had cable VOD from any provider, but I agree with you that the VOD concept is a nice compliment to my regular programming.

I've had a few weekends where we didn't have anythign recorded from the week and so I downloaded a couple of episodes of Biography, or a few cartoons from 'Adult Swim' on the Cartoon network.

A couple of times I started the download and walked away, but a few times I had company over and they said "You've got to check out this show", and we looked it up and happened to find an episode on VOD and started the DL, and within 30 seconds or so, we could start the show playing, and the DL stayed ahead of the playing...

I do think that the interface is a little "clunky" yet... it just doesn't feel smooth, and I'm not sure I can put my finger on EXACTLY what I don't like about it, but the concept is pretty cool, and so far, the implementation, for me, anyway, has worked pretty well.


----------



## dervari (Dec 1, 2005)

AT THIS POINT IN THE GAME I can't believe anyone is voting for D*. I love it as much as everyone else, but when it comes to quality of programming Comcast blows D* out of the water. Miss CSI and need to catch up? Got D*? Sorry.

The download time is also a factor. It took me over an hour to download a 24 minute Family Guy episode. I hate to think of how long a 40 minute HD series episode is going to take. And no, it's not my network. I routinely get 6-8mb/s downloading from Usenet.


----------



## vollmey (Mar 23, 2007)

dervari said:


> The download time is also a factor. It took me over an hour to download a 24 minute Family Guy episode. I hate to think of how long a 40 minute HD series episode is going to take. And no, it's not my network. I routinely get 6-8mb/s downloading from Usenet.


It's got to be your ISP or your network. I run my HR20 via a Buffalo wireless adapter and I have never once caught up with the download if I give it a minute to start. What's G wireless 3Mbps max???

I have used both Cox's VOD and D*'s now. Besides HD content which I am sure will happen and no HBO yet, there is not much difference.

Edit: If Comcast has Primetime networks like CBS for CSI, etc... That would be something that D* really needs to get on board with, that would be nice.


----------



## DrEricCarlson (Mar 6, 2007)

jtn said:


> The bulk of the users are complaining Earl, not reporting they are happy with the performance of VOD/DOD, many are reporting issues.


Since you believe the majority of users are having problems I want to be one to report that I have no problems with DOD and I haven't since day one. I have downloaded many programs (not all 2180) but not one has failed or had any problems. I think people post more often when they have problems then when things work well for them.

I voted for DOD over comcast as the one time I saw someone try to use comcast VOD it had some connection problems (failed twice during playback). Therefore by your logic the majority of comcast users must have problems based on my sample size. But really you want to compare a Beta product to one that has been out in the market for a while? You don't like DirecTV's implementation and think they should have waited until it got better? here's a solution, don't use it until it no loner a Beta then you can compare and complain to your hearts content. Until then this comparison makes no sense. just my 2cents

-DrEric


----------



## chrpai (Oct 27, 2007)

I think part of the disconnect in user experience here is the fact that DirecTV is relying on public and private networks to deliver content. Depending on the quality of these components there is going to be a whole lot of YMMV. Cable companies are also using networks to deliver VOD but the difference is they control the video streaming, the node, the bandwidth and there is no consumer private network to deal with since they are talking IP straight to the cable box.

Does everyone have major problems? No. Does everyone have perfect success? No.

That said, I've got 6MB FTTP ( wish it was more... damn AT&T ) and a brand new house with structured wiring including drops to my XBox 360, HR20-100 and A2. I find that my DirecTV VOD works awesome and that my XBox 360 Live Video Market Place works pretty good. Watching shows off netflix online works pretty good also.

I could imagine other people with perhaps slower or less reliable internet connections, wifi bridges over 802.11b and other people having different, less positive experiences though.


----------



## miksmi21 (Jan 19, 2007)

Just got into Dod as of Friday because i'm a 100 Nation member and missed the first run to get a CE that had it available. I've had D* for over a year now, but before this, I had Charter Cable. What a horrible service that Charter is. Lack of channels, overpaying for standard package channels....Geesh...but anyways...to my thoughts....and sorry if someone commented on comparing Charter VOD with D* Dod.

Charter was relatively quick to stream/download it's VoD, however, didn't have a lot of content. Which sorta holds true with their service in general. They have a bunch of channels that are missing, or were stripped (NFL Network), etc. Meanwhile, don't get me started on their internet service which I still sadly have and still has the slowest speeds on the planet short of dial up....but anyways.

In my short time having DoD, I notice the speed of initial kickoff of the video is a bit slower....enough for me to freak...no...but I think this also has to do with my shotty network speeds coming from Charter. I would love to get Fios in here...but not available in my area. Sadly Charter cable is my only choice where I live. 3MB service for $40 a month...what a sin.

But anyways. So far so good with DoD. Just keep em coming. I'd love to see a bit mor channels go active with DoD content....probably by the time it goes Live to the country perhaps.


----------



## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

dervari said:


> The download time is also a factor. It took me over an hour to download a 24 minute Family Guy episode. I hate to think of how long a 40 minute HD series episode is going to take. And no, it's not my network. I routinely get 6-8mb/s downloading from Usenet.


There's something wrong with your connection.

2 weeks ago I downloaded one of the HD programs available. I don't know exactly how long it took, but I started watching it about 10 minutes into the download and watched the whole thing all the way through.

For what it's worth, I've had no problems with the DOD service.

Also, what's with the poll options? They're the exact same:

1. Comcast is equal to D*
2. D* is equal to Comcast.

I'll also ask the same question I've asked before: What's your agenda jtn??? You join the forum and in one month spend every waking moment here (to the tune of 40 posts per day), either criticising Earl or D* or the equipment. What's your problem?


----------



## rdiedrich (Sep 11, 2007)

Don't get me wrong but isn't this still a test of DOD? It was a limited beta (only CE'ers) now it is open to the public (If they own a -700 and know about it to begin with) So I think this is hardly mainstream release at this point.

I have friends with Comcast On Demand and they say it is not all that great but do use it. I generally feel the same at this point but am giving D* an edge in the poll as I see this really taking off fast and have already seen improvements in all of the postings here.

Randy


----------



## dervari (Dec 1, 2005)

vollmey said:


> It's got to be your ISP or your network. I run my HR20 via a Buffalo wireless adapter and I have never once caught up with the download if I give it a minute to start. What's G wireless 3Mbps max???
> 
> Edit: If Comcast has Primetime networks like CBS for CSI, etc... That would be something that D* really needs to get on board with, that would be nice.


I've been in networking since the ARCNet days when I was in Jr High and am currently a Sr Network Engineer, so I do know a thing or two about networking. Everything is hardwired and a laptop plugged into the switch behind my AV cabinet gets 7-8mb/s download speed. I can watch my Slingbox which is connected to the same switch as the HR20 and I get 3+mb/s on any computer on the LAN. Firewall is a commercial grade Netscreen 5GT with a 75mb/s throughput. So I'm fairly certain that it's not MY network. While it could be my ISP, others are having the same issue.


----------



## dervari (Dec 1, 2005)

spartanstew said:


> There's something wrong with your connection.


There is absolutely nothing wrong with my connection. I get full bandwidth from other sites.


----------



## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

dervari said:


> I've been in networking since the ARCNet days when I was in Jr High and am currently a Sr Network Engineer, so I do know a thing or two about networking. Everything is hardwired and a laptop plugged into the switch behind my AV cabinet gets 7-8mb/s download speed. I can watch my Slingbox which is connected to the same switch as the HR20 and I get 3+mb/s on any computer on the LAN. Firewall is a commercial grade Netscreen 5GT with a 75mb/s throughput. So I'm fairly certain that it's not MY network. While it could be my ISP, others are having the same issue.


Since the public internet is involved everyones milage will vary. With your knowledge and tools you should be able to see the destination address that your HR20 is establishing a session with. With that start using a traceroute to that address and see if there is a point in the path where the response time starts to go in the dumpster. Maybe it's something in your ISP's path, a peering point congestion or anything else in the path, at least it would be a place to start to see where there might be a problem. However if it's outsite your ISP's network you'd probably won't have much luck getting it resolved.


----------



## cb7214 (Jan 25, 2007)

jtn said:


> It may be on the guide (nice eye candy) but doesn't mean they are getting to download it successfully. Many are complaining about this.
> 
> If I take your advice, why should I trust what the so called 1500 say, if you are right?


Here is my question for you

Should everyone be required to submit their CE or DOD experience that way you can get an accurate count on the "good" and the "bad" for both??

I have been downloading CE's for almost a year and have had the DOD almost since day one. Have I had any issues with DOD? No

I usually don't post unless i have a issue with something whether it would be a CE or DOD. Why because there really isn't any point to it. Can you imagine the 10,000's of additional posts you would have to sift through if every Tom Dick and Harry, posted mines working mines working etc??

In a forum that is out there to provide information and to help others with issues and problems the majority of posts you are going to see are "problems" not "it works"

:soapbox: :rant:


----------



## dervari (Dec 1, 2005)

RAD said:


> Since the public internet is involved everyones milage will vary. With your knowledge and tools you should be able to see the destination address that your HR20 is establishing a session with. With that start using a traceroute to that address and see if there is a point in the path where the response time starts to go in the dumpster. Maybe it's something in your ISP's path, a peering point congestion or anything else in the path, at least it would be a place to start to see where there might be a problem. However if it's outsite your ISP's network you'd probably won't have much luck getting it resolved.


Been there, done that in another thread. 

It seems that LimeLight networks is hosting D* VOD. A traceroute to their server in Washington, DC (I'm assuming since it has IAD in the host name) shows no latency or bad hops in between. It looks like Limelight may have a private frame relay network (FR in some of the host names) with a handoff in Atlanta to Global Exchange. It hops three times in GX's network before it hits Comcasts' edge router.

Strangeness...I hope Sandvine isn't playing a part in the slowdown. I may have to put a sniffer on to see if I'm getting bogus RST packets.


----------



## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

dervari said:


> Been there, done that in another thread.
> 
> It seems that LimeLight networks is hosting D* VOD. A traceroute to their server in Washington, DC (I'm assuming since it has IAD in the host name) shows no latency or bad hops in between. It looks like Limelight may have a private frame relay network (FR in some of the host names) with a handoff in Atlanta to Global Exchange. It hops three times in GX's network before it hits Comcasts' edge router.
> 
> Strangeness...I hope Sandvine isn't playing a part in the slowdown. I may have to put a sniffer on to see if I'm getting bogus RST packets.


Looks like great minds think alike

When I traced it that's also where I ended up with nothing out of the ordinary in the trace but not seeing anything like you are, a 2 hour program downloads in about 1:45 on 6Mbps TWC connection. Hope that your ISP isn't playing the packet shaping/traffic management tricks that Comcast says they aren't doing.


----------



## codewiz (May 23, 2007)

Never had one issue with VOD. Sorry I didn't come here and post my EASY success with it. That is obviously what jtn is looking for. I hate to break it to you buddy but most of the time people have no problems don't report that. Otherwise this forum would have been overun with success stories......

I love DoD


----------



## jtn (Oct 18, 2007)

codewiz said:


> Never had one issue with VOD. Sorry I didn't come here and post my EASY success with it. That is obviously what jtn is looking for. I hate to break it to you buddy but most of the time people have no problems don't report that. Otherwise this forum would have been overun with success stories......
> 
> I love DoD


What about HD content? Does DirecTV have that? I don't think so, not yet anyway.


----------



## F1 Fan (Aug 28, 2007)

jtn said:


> What about HD content? Does DirecTV have that? I don't think so, not yet anyway.


which part of BETA = testing do you not understand??

You go on and on about D* should test before they roll it out - yet it is in testing and you are complaining that it isnt fully functional and have full content.

Every topic I have seen you start on this forum is bashing D* in one form or another or trying to incite something.

I have yet to see one coherent factual based argument from you.

I will leave you to your internet fighting that you seem to enjoy. It is a pity because most people on here give good points of view with sound reasoning, whether they agree or disagree with someone.


----------



## jtn (Oct 18, 2007)

F1 Fan said:


> which part of BETA = testing do you not understand??
> 
> You go on and on about D* should test before they roll it out - yet it is in testing and you are complaining that it isnt fully functional and have full content.
> 
> ...


Planning the for development and introduction is not a criticism, your interpretation of my motives is not accurate. If I owned a major carrier, I would make sure it was ready for prime time. Sorry to hear your so uptight. That isn't my intention.


----------



## Sharkie_Fan (Sep 26, 2006)

jtn said:


> Planning the for development and introduction is not a criticism, your interpretation of my motives is not accurate. If I owned a major carrier, I would make sure it was ready for prime time. Sorry to hear your so uptight. That isn't my intention.


And you'd be left with no customers because they'd move on elsewhere while you were getting everythign "ready for prime time".

Think the HR20 was released early because D* just didn't give a damn? I don't. The natives were restless, and D* was forced to get it done and delivered in a hurry so customers didn't start leaving like rats from a sinking ship.

Every decision D* has to make is a balance between how 'ready" things are and how "insistent" the customers are, and all of that in relation to what the competition has.

You seem to have the idea that everything should happen "just so"... but it doesn't. Welcome to what we call "the real world".


----------



## jtn (Oct 18, 2007)

Sharkie_Fan said:


> And you'd be left with no customers because they'd move on elsewhere while you were getting everythign "ready for prime time".
> 
> Think the HR20 was released early because D* just didn't give a damn? I don't. The natives were restless, and D* was forced to get it done and delivered in a hurry so customers didn't start leaving like rats from a sinking ship.
> 
> ...


That's your opinion, but I disagree, I dropped DirecTV for nearly a year to wait until they were ready for HD they promised. So that's your view, but not everyones.


----------



## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

JTN, noticed this in your sig, *"I can record 1 OTA and 2 Satellite programs at same time."*. Can you plese fill us in on how you do this on a HR20?


----------



## Sharkie_Fan (Sep 26, 2006)

jtn said:


> That's your opinion, but I disagree, I dropped DirecTV for nearly a year to wait until they were ready for HD they promised. So that's your view, but not everyones.


I don't think I'm going out on a huge limb in saying that it's also the view that DirecTV takes... and most manufacturers take...

If you think that D* is taking abuse now, for the "state of the union", you should have been here 12 months ago when the HR20 was first released. They were bombarded from every corner with complaints about their product and their service.

I don't think for one second that D* subjected themselves to that kind of abuse and PR hit simply on a whim. They knew that if they waited much longer to release the HR20 the market was going to pass them by.

The same is true of different "features" they release, such as VOD. They can hold off so long "polishing" things and getting them "ready for primetime". But they have to take into account the return on their investment. At some point, you reach the point of diminishing returns and you simply have to put out the product and fix it as you go. If not, the market will pass you by and you will not survive.

No one is disagreeing with you that "in a perfect world" they'd release a product that's ready for primetime and has no problems and everybody is happy. Things just don't go down that way, and no matter how adamantly you hold to your opinion that they should go down that way... it just doesn't work like that.


----------



## jtn (Oct 18, 2007)

Sharkie_Fan said:


> I don't think I'm going out on a huge limb in saying that it's also the view that DirecTV takes... and most manufacturers take...
> 
> If you think that D* is taking abuse now, for the "state of the union", you should have been here 12 months ago when the HR20 was first released. They were bombarded from every corner with complaints about their product and their service.
> 
> ...


Sharkie I was with DirecTV a year ago, and after getting my services, buying my HR20's, I left after I realized they were not ready for primetime with services especially those which I value that being HD.

Now I am back, and they are blowing it again with this CE On Demand. Which all customers with an HR20/21 have access to know, so it really is not limited to a select few at all with 0x1B4 being introduced nationally right? NO it is not. We can argue all day. Other competitors planned better before introducing VOD.


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

jtn said:


> Which all customers with an HR20/21 have access to know, so it really is it still limited to a select few.


Actually... No person with an HR21 has access to DoD (not even the CE people)

And no one with an HR20-100 outside the CE process has access either.


----------



## jtn (Oct 18, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Actually... No person with an HR21 has access to DoD (not even the CE people)
> 
> And no one with an HR20-100 outside the CE process has access either.


Well alright but those with HR20-700 with 0x1B4 can get the BETA, cant they? Yes they can. So it is available to many, many people automatically by national release, without any effort on the customer. Point being that many are having difficulties with it. Hopefully they can find help here instead of tag teaming me.


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

jtn said:


> Well alright but those with HR20-700 with 0x1B4 can get the BETA, cant they? Yes they can. So it is available to many, many people. Point being that many are having difficulties with it. Hopefully they can find help here instead of tag teaming me.


Yes, anyone with 0x1b4 can get access to DoD... And yes, that is a very large population....

Are people having issue with it... yes...
But yet you continue to state MANY are having difficulty with it... but what is your basis point to compare the number of posts about it, to those not having issues (and thus not posting about it).

And if you haven't been paying attention... those people are getting help, by many of the users here on the forum and other resources....


----------



## jtn (Oct 18, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Yes, anyone with 0x1b4 can get access to DoD... And yes, that is a very large population....
> 
> Are people having issue with it... yes...
> But yet you continue to state MANY are having difficulty with it... but what is your basis point to compare the number of posts about it, to those not having issues (and thus not posting about it).
> ...


Earl I'm only saying that the bulk of people on this forum are having difficulty, that's all, please don't take it personally, I love DBStalk. I'm only reading posts, I don't have time to point to every issue.


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

jtn said:


> Earl I'm only saying that the bulk of people on this forum are having difficulty, that's all, please don't take it personally, I love DBStalk. I'm only reading posts, I don't have time to point to every issue.


Again..

The "bulk".... were?

The "bulk" of the posts... sure... as that is expected... as not many people are going to post they are not having issues..

But we have an average of 1,500 people on the system at any given time.
We have over 1,000 participating in the CE downloads.

But I don't see the "bulk" which I would put in the 750 user range (of the 1,000 CE people)... posting that they are having issues.

Then you move into the casual user, not the CEs... and we have even more users.... and even then the "bulk" you are referring to isn't there.

It isn't personal... but you are making some very broad statements with no data points to back it up...


----------



## Sharkie_Fan (Sep 26, 2006)

jtn said:


> Earl I'm only saying that the bulk of people on this forum are having difficulty, that's all, please don't take it personally, I love DBStalk. I'm only reading posts, I don't have time to point to every issue.


And the question on everyone's mind is where do you get the idea that the "BULK" of people on this forum are having difficulty?

The "bulk" of people who are experiencing NO problems AREN'T POSTING.... That's the nature of a forum like this.... So, the bulk of people POSTING may be having difficulties, but that's a far, far cry from the bulk of people in general experiencing difficulties.


----------



## vollmey (Mar 23, 2007)

jtn said:


> Earl I'm only saying that the bulk of people on this forum are having difficulty, that's all, please don't take it personally, I love DBStalk. I'm only reading posts, I don't have time to point to every issue.


JTN,

There is a question to a few threads up. You have in your sig that you can record 1 OTA and two Sat channels at the same time. How are you doing that if may ask?? I'm just curious.


----------



## Sharkie_Fan (Sep 26, 2006)

vollmey said:


> JTN,
> 
> There is a question to a few threads up. You have in your sig that you can record 1 OTA and two Sat channels at the same time. How are you doing that if may ask?? I'm just curious.


It's discussed at lentgh in this thread:
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=106383

Bottom line, the HR20 can't record 3 programs at once.

He has 3 programs scheduled at one time, and one of the three repeats 3 hours later, which has led us to the conclusion that the repeat show is being recorded and when the to do list is looked at the next day is has the appearance of having recorded 3 shows at one time.


----------



## jtn (Oct 18, 2007)

Sharkie_Fan said:


> It's discussed at lentgh in this thread:
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=106383
> 
> Bottom line, the HR20 can't record 3 programs at once.
> ...


If the HR20 can do this automatically, then I was wrong and unaware of this. I trusted what the manual said, and when I programmed the remote for three shows at one time it didn't error out, but if it can see ahead and record later than I made an error. I didn't think the HR20 could do that.


----------



## Sharkie_Fan (Sep 26, 2006)

jtn said:


> If the HR20 can do this automatically, then I was wrong and unaware of this. I trusted what the manual said, and when I programmed the remote for three shows at one time it didn't error out, but if it can see ahead and record later than I made an error. I didn't think the HR20 could do that.


No worries. That's not the only thing wrong in the manual. 

We only know it doesn't work from experience.... We all hoped that the manual was correct when it said we could record more than 2 at a time, but unfortunately, we all found out the hard way that it wasn't the case...


----------



## jtn (Oct 18, 2007)

Sharkie_Fan said:


> No worries. That's not the only thing wrong in the manual.
> 
> We only know it doesn't work from experience.... We all hoped that the manual was correct when it said we could record more than 2 at a time, but unfortunately, we all found out the hard way that it wasn't the case...


Sorry for the mistake I am wrong. I apologize.


----------



## jtn (Oct 18, 2007)

Bought a new router today, and after a branch fell on the cable tv line, Comcast came out to fix it, since my Internet was on and off. Now it seems On Demand with DirecTV is fine, and the only thing it stopped is on one download on three, during a commercial, so I don't mind, since I got the program, without the commercial at the end. I am not confident Comcast is conspiring to sabotage what I download whether it be from DirecTV or whoever.


----------



## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

So, by "Many members are having problems", you meant "you"?


----------



## vollmey (Mar 23, 2007)

Sharkie_Fan said:


> It's discussed at lentgh in this thread:
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=106383
> 
> Bottom line, the HR20 can't record 3 programs at once.
> ...


Thought maybe I was missing something, thanks guys!! Your thread JTN, back on VOD/DOD.


----------



## rdiedrich (Sep 11, 2007)

jtn said:


> What about HD content? Does DirecTV have that? I don't think so, not yet anyway.


I downloaded a copy of Flip This House that looked like HD to me it was just not labeled as such.

Randy


----------



## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Umm... 200 titles?
> 
> Just a quick look at DoD remote booking (which I have access to..)
> There are 2184 titles available.
> ...


200 was completely my fault. I dropped a 0 (meant to type 2000).


----------



## jtn (Oct 18, 2007)

Now that I have it working, I love it! Very impressed with DirecTV over Comcast.


----------



## dbooth (Nov 6, 2007)

jtn said:


> Now that I have it working, I love it! Very impressed with DirecTV over Comcast.


:scratch: :scratch: :nono2:


----------



## jtn (Oct 18, 2007)

dbooth said:


> :scratch: :scratch: :nono2:


We all make errors and I have had both Comcast & DirecTV for comparison. Now learning that despite DirecTV errors they still download after investing in new equipment (router as suggested by DBStalk) should demonstrate my desire to be honest. So I am sorry if I confused members. It's about learning curve, and testing right?

At this time the only advantage I see with Comcast is HD on premium channels and non-premium that they offer HD content on.


----------



## mhayes70 (Mar 21, 2006)

That's good to hear jtn. I am glad it is working good for you now. I hope you enjoy it as much as I do.


----------



## jtn (Oct 18, 2007)

mhayes70 said:


> That's good to hear jtn. I am glad it is working good for you now. I hope you enjoy it as much as I do.


I love it, and I'm sure HD is coming very soon. Thanks.


----------



## sunking (Feb 17, 2004)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Really... Failing badly?
> 
> So you have seen the actuall directv internal numbers on it? Or just basing in the posts here in the forum.
> 
> And this has absolutely nothing to do about people buying networking/internet equipment... as if it was... you could bet that DirecTV would have a contract in place with Cisco/Linksys or DLink to have branded equipment out there ready to go.


Honestly, for me it is failing badly. The reality is that because they are relying on a 3rd party service to deliver their content people are paying the same amount of money yet receive in some cases an inferior service. The extreme case is someone who doesn't even have internet access (like my mother). These people are paying the same amount of money to D*, yet now don't get 100% of the service offered. For no fault of there own other than they simply don't have a 3rd party internet service.

Now move to my case, I have a crappy 1.5M DSL connection, tried the service and quite frankly for me it is if not unusable, certainly unsatisfactory at taking 4+ hours to download a movie. Yet other people who pay the exact same each month to D* but happen to have a faster connection are receiving a better service from D*.

This is really the issue at hand for me. I know D* is trying, and kudos for that. I just think the reliance on a different service altogether is a big hole in their strategy.


----------



## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

sunking said:


> Honestly, for me it is failing badly. The reality is that because they are relying on a 3rd party service to deliver their content people are paying the same amount of money yet receive in some cases an inferior service. The extreme case is someone who doesn't even have internet access (like my mother). These people are paying the same amount of money to D*, yet now don't get 100% of the service offered. For no fault of there own other than they simply don't have a 3rd party internet service.
> 
> Now move to my case, I have a crappy 1.5M DSL connection, tried the service and quite frankly for me it is if not unusable, certainly unsatisfactory at taking 4+ hours to download a movie. Yet other people who pay the exact same each month to D* but happen to have a faster connection are receiving a better service from D*.
> 
> This is really the issue at hand for me. I know D* is trying, and kudos for that. I just think the reliance on a different service altogether is a big hole in their strategy.


To be honest you could use the same argument about inferior TVs. If you want to get the full worth of the product, buy a better TV (or Internet service, or a Dolby Digital receiver).


----------



## mhayes70 (Mar 21, 2006)

sunking said:


> Honestly, for me it is failing badly. The reality is that because they are relying on a 3rd party service to deliver their content people are paying the same amount of money yet receive in some cases an inferior service. The extreme case is someone who doesn't even have internet access (like my mother). These people are paying the same amount of money to D*, yet now don't get 100% of the service offered. For no fault of there own other than they simply don't have a 3rd party internet service.
> 
> Now move to my case, I have a crappy 1.5M DSL connection, tried the service and quite frankly for me it is if not unusable, certainly unsatisfactory at taking 4+ hours to download a movie. Yet other people who pay the exact same each month to D* but happen to have a faster connection are receiving a better service from D*.
> 
> This is really the issue at hand for me. I know D* is trying, and kudos for that. I just think the reliance on a different service altogether is a big hole in their strategy.


You have a point. But, it is a free service. No one is paying extra to get it.

As for how long it takes to download a movie. It takes a while for mine also. I just find a movie or show that I would like to watch and let it download and watch it later. This DOD is not PPV where you can watch it instantly. The only thing I don't like about it so far is the experation dates.


----------



## afulkerson (Jan 14, 2007)

I can't vote in the poll because I have been on sat ever since 1995. So I have never had VOD from a cable company.

In the case of DirecTv and DoD I have tested it with my HR20 and have had NO PROBLEMS with it at all. I am sure that some of the people that say they have problems are those that see a title in the guide and they are unable to download it because they don't subscribe to that service. It has been pointed out that all titles are there not just the ones that you have acdess to.

I have not posted about problems because I have not had any at all....


----------



## F1 Fan (Aug 28, 2007)

sunking said:


> Honestly, for me it is failing badly. The reality is that because they are relying on a 3rd party service to deliver their content people are paying the same amount of money yet receive in some cases an inferior service. The extreme case is someone who doesn't even have internet access (like my mother). These people are paying the same amount of money to D*, yet now don't get 100% of the service offered. For no fault of there own other than they simply don't have a 3rd party internet service.
> 
> Now move to my case, I have a crappy 1.5M DSL connection, tried the service and quite frankly for me it is if not unusable, certainly unsatisfactory at taking 4+ hours to download a movie. Yet other people who pay the exact same each month to D* but happen to have a faster connection are receiving a better service from D*.
> 
> This is really the issue at hand for me. I know D* is trying, and kudos for that. I just think the reliance on a different service altogether is a big hole in their strategy.


But you are comparing the wrong things.

D* provides a free service where you can download movies over the internet to your box. End of story on D*'s part.

You choose to pay $30 (or whatever it is) for a low speed DSL. Someone else chooses to pay $100 for higher speeds. They get a better service.

It is like me saying Vongo is charging me $9.99 but it is so slow but my neighbor has 8m speed and he is getting it "instantly". Not Vongos fault (btw i dont have Vongo).

D* has provided everyone with the same level of service from their end within their control. I am sorry but it has to come over the internet, especially if you want it free. Could you imagine how many birds it would take to be able to handle 16m users requesting different titles at the same time all over the country? You have seen what happens to half the channels when ST comes on, we wouldnt have any normal channels if they were to do VOD over satellite.

I am also on a 1.5M line (though mine is T1 not DSL). I have no problem with the download speed. My idea of VOD isnt instant. The whole point of VOD to me is to not have to wait for a show to come on or to get a show I missed. It works with DVRs so I plan and record. I will be honest and say I have never tried to queue a VOD and then watch it when it starts to download.

I tend to look at VOD titles in the times when I am not really watching TV but am flicking through things to watch later. So I schedule them then. As soon as I can get remote booking I will be doing even more. So speed isnt too much for me.

You could pay the same as others and get the faster download speed. You choose not to. Dont complain about it - it was your choice.


----------



## dervari (Dec 1, 2005)

I have an 8mb line and get 800k download speeds from DoD. DOn't feel bad.


----------



## MikeR (Oct 6, 2006)

I get 200-1000kbps between 5pm and midnight on weekdays. Before or after that I get near or at advertised speed. Frustrating, as it is not an "overload" situation according to the local Comcast office...but it certainly acts that way. I still believe the local office will get it fixed...and then I can test the Comcast caps!


----------



## jtn (Oct 18, 2007)

dervari said:


> I have an 8mb line and get 800k download speeds from DoD. DOn't feel bad.


How can you tell what speed your getting on an IRD/STB or HR20 for On Demand?


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

jtn said:


> How can you tell what speed your getting on an IRD/STB or HR20 for On Demand?


Unless you have a piece of hardware that allows you to see the speed over that port... there is no way to tell.

(Aka the HR20 STB doesn't have a page to let you know)


----------



## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

jtn said:


> We all make errors and I have had both Comcast & DirecTV for comparison. Now learning that despite DirecTV errors they still download after investing in new equipment (router as suggested by DBStalk) should demonstrate my desire to be honest. So I am sorry if I confused members. It's about learning curve, and testing right?
> 
> At this time the only advantage I see with Comcast is HD on premium channels and non-premium that they offer HD content on.


Perhaps in the future you won't make outrageous claims about the experiences of other members just because you're having an issue.

Perhaps you'll also research your claims and provide links when asked for them.

Perhaps you'll also refrain from being argumentative with the mods and other members of this site who clearly have more knowledge.

Perhaps.


----------



## venisenvy (Nov 1, 2007)

I downloaded the CE for the 100 the last time it was offer, around Nov.2nd. I must say that I am very please, I took the jump to D* after years of charter and while everything on D* was better than on Charter(except for no CWHD) I was really missing On Demand. I never realized how much I liked it until I no longer had it. What I do not like about D* is that you must have a DVR. Only one box in my house is an HR20-100 and the rest are just your regular D* SD box. None of the other boxes will be able to enjoy them. I guess in the future i will get DVR's but I just wished there was a better way to get the content to us. Other than that I really love how On demand is shaping up, in its Beta stages it's already looking better than Charter on Demand. I think it is better organized than charter, and a little easier to navigate. The only area in regards to content that charter was better with was more movie channels, HBO, TMC, and one that was called i think Flix which was a free movie channel. WWE on Demand was also pretty nice. Once the content is up to par with what i was used to before I will not even have a second thought about something i miss on cable.


----------



## jtn (Oct 18, 2007)

spartanstew said:


> Perhaps in the future you won't make outrageous claims about the experiences of other members just because you're having an issue.
> 
> Perhaps you'll also research your claims and provide links when asked for them.
> 
> ...


Perhaps you realize that mods and members are equally incorrect, but not deliberately so, and readers you must trust to make up their own minds. I respect your opinion. It appears I have angered you, sorry.


----------

