# DirecTV Lost 11 Year Customer



## fosterfamily (Mar 21, 2011)

Long time lurker but first post. This has been a very helpful forum in the past.

This is simply a post indicating my disappointment in DirecTV to resolve a very simple customer expectation. In the end, it cost them two accounts.

DirecTV just lost my account after 11+ years of service. Reason:

After encouraging my parents to move to DirecTV, the installer - a "Tier 1" installer dispatched by DirecTV installed HR21 and H21 equipment to their home last week. Since then, DirecTV was unable to replace these boxes with H24 units.

Notes:

1. In my new location, I have had HR24 and H24 boxes since September along with other neighbors. Thus we know that they are available.
2. The HR21 unit installed was immediately and horribly noisy. This was replaced a day or two later with an HR24. Thus we know the installer has the new equipment.
3. My parents, nearly 80, have all HD TVs in their home but were otherwise assuming that they were getting the advertised equipment which is the same equipment that they have used at my home since September 2010.
4. My parents have 5 units in their home. 1 HR24, 4 H21s. Thus, they should be considered a GREAT new customer from an billing perspective!

Customer service was unable to resolve for the same reasons stated elsewhere in this forum:

1. "Cannot guarantee equipment models" = false advertising
2. "Equipment is at the discretion of the installer" = age discrimination 
3. "You can spend $100 to get new hardware" = wait, we should spend $400 MORE money to get the install done correctly that the installer COULD have done originally

At this point, both my contract and my parents contracts will incur penalties which I will try to dispute for at least the newly installed (< 1 week) service.

Perhaps this is too principled for some, but I refuse to simple accept DirecTV's position and inability to resolve a simple problem with a simple solution.

Very disappointed and now shopping my Plan B.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

fosterfamily said:


> 1. "Cannot guarantee equipment models" = false advertising
> 2. "Equipment is at the discretion of the installer" = age discrimination
> 3. "You can spend $100 to get new hardware" = wait, we should spend $400 MORE money to get the install done correctly that the installer COULD have done originally


Just a point of clarification .. I don't believe that DIRECTV advertises anywhere that you will receive an HR24 and/or an H24 as part of your install. They only advertise an HD DVR and/or an HD receiver. The advertising really isn't false in any way .. BUT .. it doesn't mean you have to like the policy. I'm just saying that it's not false advertising.

Age discrimination? :scratchin
I don't think so .. probably has more to do with what was on the truck that day than who it was being installed for.

And as for "getting it done correctly" .. If you want to guarantee the latest receiver (HR24, H24, etc.) then you have to do what has been suggested on DBSTalk many many times .. You have to buy it from a retailer. So for 4, yes, it would be $400 but you would have gotten what you wanted. Besides, that $400 (even if you did it today, BTW) is probably less than the early termination fee that you are going to pay.


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## fosterfamily (Mar 21, 2011)

Doug Brott said:


> Just a point of clarification .. I don't believe that DIRECTV advertises anywhere that you will receive an HR24 and/or an H24 as part of your install. They only advertise an HD DVR and/or an HD receiver. The advertising really isn't false in any way .. BUT .. it doesn't mean you have to like the policy. I'm just saying that it's not false advertising.
> 
> Age discrimination? :scratchin
> I don't think so .. probably has more to do with what was on the truck that day than who it was being installed for.
> ...


thanks for your comments.

1. Advertising. I also see the fine print about "models may vary" (see it now) in the advertising. However, you must admit that everything in print and online leads you to believe that you will be receiving H24 boxes. In fact, online it lists H24 by name and only refers to "All other models" on the spec page. Coupled with my parents reference installs: mine and neighbors of many months ago, would assume that they would get latest equipment. False advertising or misleading - FINE line. Bad, bad on DirecTVs part.

2. Age. I don't buy "on the truck". The same installer came back the next day to replace the faulty HR21 with an HR24. More likely trying to pawn off old equipment on unsuspecting old people.

3. My install was done without buying equipment separately. 6 months ago. Using the equivalent process, they would expect the same result.

Yep, paying cancellation fee. Already submitted claim to BBB, state Attorney General, Credit Card, and then looking at further options. It will end up costing both my time and DirecTV's time to resolve this.

Simply disappointed.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

I'm sorry, but "principled"?

They had a noisy HR21 and it was replaced immediately, right?

So what, they got H21's and not H24's. Big deal.

If they (and you and everyone you know) is willing to bail and eat ETF's, because you'd rather have H24's instead of H21's, then it's probably a good thing. I sense it will just be more future grief for D* to retain you.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Right. On the screen where I can buy a DVR, it shows an HR24, but right under that it says that while an HR24 is pictured, actual model may vary.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

fosterfamily said:


> All fair points:
> 
> 1. Advertising. I also see the fine print about "models may vary" (see it now) in the advertising. However, you must admit that everything in print and online leads you to believe that you will be receiving H24 boxes. In fact, online it lists H24 by name and only refers to "All other models" on the spec page. Coupled with my parents reference installs: mine and neighbors of many months ago, would assume that they would get latest equipment. False advertising or misleading - FINE line. Bad, bad on DirecTVs part.
> 
> ...


1. They're all DVR's with very similar capabilities. Some have a bit larger HD and some are a bit faster, but they accomplish the same task.
2. Old, young, doesn't matter. They get what's available.
3. Instead of feeling that your folks got taken (which they didn't), perhaps you should just feel fortunate. Maybe you should have had the same result they did, but you lucked out (IYO).

IMO, you're making a lot out of nothing. You didn't even state what the problem was with the H21's. Was there a problem?


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## ndole (Aug 26, 2009)

Everyone thinks they're special 

Other than a little bit of speed difference and disk space, there's virtually no difference in the end user experience between IRD's of the same type.

This is the way it is for EVERYONE.

..Wait.. Nevermind. You're right, they're just out to get _you_.


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## boba (May 23, 2003)

I feel so sorry you are just learning to read, hope you enjoy the ETF!!!!!!!!


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

spartanstew said:


> 1. They're all DVR's with very similar capabilities. Some have a bit larger HD and some are a bit faster, but they accomplish the same task.


There is a bigger difference with 20s, both in what it can do that the others can't (without an AM21), and vice versa. But that's the main thing, to DirecTV they all are equivalent.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

fosterfamily said:


> thanks for your comments.
> 
> 1. Advertising. I also see the fine print about "models may vary" (see it now) in the advertising. However, you must admit that everything in print and online leads you to believe that you will be receiving H24 boxes. In fact, online it lists H24 by name and only refers to "All other models" on the spec page. Coupled with my parents reference installs: mine and neighbors of many months ago, would assume that they would get latest equipment. False advertising or misleading - FINE line. Bad, bad on DirecTVs part.
> 
> ...


:wave: I'm sure you'll be missed.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

fosterfamily said:


> Long time lurker but first post. This has been a very helpful forum in the past.
> 
> This is simply a post indicating my disappointment in DirecTV to resolve a very simple customer expectation. In the end, it cost them two accounts.
> 
> ...


There was false advertising. There was no age discrimination. They did nothing wrong. A sense of entitlement gone wild.


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## erosroadie (Jan 9, 2007)

spartanstew said:


> 1. They're all DVR's with very similar capabilities. Some have a bit larger HD and some are a bit faster, but they accomplish the same task.
> 2. Old, young, doesn't matter. They get what's available.
> 3. Instead of feeling that your folks got taken (which they didn't), perhaps you should just feel fortunate. Maybe you should have had the same result they did, but you lucked out (IYO).
> 
> IMO, you're making a lot out of nothing. You didn't even state what the problem was with the H21's. Was there a problem?


+1.

I added a room to my D* account three weeks ago and received an HR22. Not as sexy and (reportedly) not as fast as the HR24, but the hard drive is HUGE compared to my HR20 and HR21.

Works great for me. YMMV...


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## fosterfamily (Mar 21, 2011)

Calm down fanboys. I was simply trying to extend the DirecTV family and DirecTV was unable to deliver on the right equipment. It would have been a very simple fix for them to make and ended up costing them 2 customers.

Reasons for wanting the H24 v. H21 = size, menu performance, DECA boxes. A couple of these are for countertop TVs and the slimmer package and lack of DECA box makes for a better footprint. I may be discriminating but there is a difference as you are all aware.

ETF. Right, it might be a business model to collect these fees for dissatisfied customers but in 11 years, I've never complained thus I am very low maintenance and would be considered a "keeper" in any other business.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

fosterfamily said:


> Yep, paying cancellation fee. Already submitted claim to BBB, state Attorney General, Credit Card, and then looking at further options. It will end up costing both my time and DirecTV's time to resolve this.


Haha :lol: Good luck with that.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

fosterfamily said:


> Calm down fanboys. I was simply trying to extend the DirecTV family and DirecTV was unable to deliver on the right equipment. It would have been a very simple fix for them to make and ended up costing them 2 customers.
> 
> Reasons for wanting the H24 v. H21 = size, menu performance, DECA boxes. A couple of these are for countertop TVs and the slimmer package and lack of DECA box makes for a better footprint. I may be discriminating but there is a difference as you are all aware.
> 
> ETF. Right, it might be a business model to collect these fees for dissatisfied customers but in 11 years, I've never complained thus I am very low maintenance and would be considered a "keeper" in any other business.


...then get your own H24's.  You can acquire them for yourself, if you wish to do so. Blaiming DirecTV for a mistake you made is not going to get you anywhere. DirecTV did deliver the correct equipment. You decided to be incredibly difficult and have now inconvenienced your elderly parents. Mission accomplished?


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## rrdirectsr (Jan 30, 2011)

I'm a D** employee and the tech that set mine up showed up with 2 HR20s and an H20. Luckily for me I had something that caused the install to be delayed and when they came back out 2 weeks later we had HR24s and a H24. The only thing that matters is what the tech has on his truck.


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

Bottom line is D* does not guarantee 24 series models, if you are willing to leave over that, then they might not be willing to keep you as a customer. There is a fine line between what you should get and someone's sense of entitlement....there is a way to get 24's, but you have to provide the extra effort to get them, as in acquiring them elsewhere like many have done to their satisfaction.


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## fosterfamily (Mar 21, 2011)

"Entitlement" has been used a couple of times. This would imply that it is a privileged to get the equipment that is being advertised and is installed next door.

In no way do I feel entitled to be special. Only to get what is presented as latest, in-print, and as otherwise advertised.

My father is a small business owner that is in disbelief of the tactics used by DirecTV to advertise one way and then deliver another. The attitude that he would pay another $400 to get what would otherwise be "luck of the draw" is simply inexcusable.


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## fosterfamily (Mar 21, 2011)

Hoosier205 said:


> You decided to be incredibly difficult and have now inconvenienced your elderly parents. Mission accomplished?


I took on the mission to resolve (yet failed) in an attempt to: a) avoid my dad throwing the equipment out the front door and b) retain DirecTV as his service - as I believed that they would resolve this for knowing-customers.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

They did absolutely nothing dishonest. You received the correct equipment. Your disappointment came about due to your own misconceptions. There is absolutely no reason for them to replace those H21's.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

fosterfamily said:


> It would have been a very simple fix for them to make


That's your opinion. Since they're all the same in D*'s eyes, it's not a simple fix.



fosterfamily said:


> "Entitlement" has been used a couple of times. This would imply that it is a privileged to get the equipment that is being advertised and is installed next door.


Maybe you're not reading (kinda like the advertising you didn't read) anything, but they're not advertising anything. Of course, they'll use the best picture. Guess what, my Whopper never looks like the ones in the ad either. Is that false advertising? And it doesn't matter what was installed next door, or two blocks over or across the country. They install what they have. If you want something specific, there's other ways to get it.



fosterfamily said:


> In no way do I feel entitled to be special. Only to get what is presented as latest, in-print, and as otherwise advertised.


But you do feel entitled and special. You don't want to receive whatever they have, like the millions of other customers. You want special treatment.



fosterfamily said:


> My father is a small business owner that is in disbelief of the tactics used by DirecTV to advertise one way and then deliver another. The attitude that he would pay another $400 to get what would otherwise be "luck of the draw" is simply inexcusable.


No offense, but I'm pretty sure D* is a bit more successful in their business endeavor than your Dad. You'd think as a business owner, he'd be able to read and advertisement.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

fosterfamily said:


> I took on the mission to resolve (yet failed) in an attempt to: a) *avoid my dad throwing the equipment out the front door *and b) retain DirecTV as his service - as I believed that they would resolve this for knowing-customers.


You still haven't stated what was wrong with the H21. Why would he want to throw it out the window (other than anger issues that may run in the family)? What advertised function did it not carry out?


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## ndole (Aug 26, 2009)

fosterfamily said:


> I took on the mission to resolve (yet failed) in an attempt to: a) *avoid my dad throwing the equipment out the front door* and b) retain DirecTV as his service - as I believed that they would resolve this for knowing-customers.


Ah, now it comes out. You got your father all worked up :hurah:


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## DogLover (Mar 19, 2007)

fosterfamily said:


> "Entitlement" has been used a couple of times. This would imply that it is a privileged to get the equipment that is being advertised and is installed next door.
> 
> In no way do I feel entitled to be special. Only to get what is presented as latest, in-print, and as otherwise advertised.
> 
> My father is a small business owner that is in disbelief of the tactics used by DirecTV to advertise one way and then deliver another. The attitude that he would pay another $400 to get what would otherwise be "luck of the draw" is simply inexcusable.


But, you have already admitted that you now see the information that they don't guarantee the model that you get. Therefore, your claim of not getting "the equipment that is being advertised" has already been proven false by your own words.

You didn't get what you expected, and are disappointed. That is understandable. You recommeded something to your parents, based on your own experience and assumpitons, and you are now embarassed. That is understandable. You don't like DirecTV's business model, which is again understandable.

Emotions aside, your parents did get free equipment, and they did get what was advertised. For the vast majority of customers, what they have will work exactly the same as an H24. If they have a specific need, they will need to decide whether that need is worth spending the money to meet that need. (Same as every other business transaction they have participated in.)


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

spartanstew said:


> No offense, but I'm pretty sure D* is a bit more successful in their business endeavor than your Dad. You'd think as a business owner, he'd be able to read and advertisement.


He also might have laughed when the BBB was mentioned. :lol:


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## Wally20 (Jul 30, 2007)

I signed up 3 weeks ago for a HD DVR and HD box and got an HR24 and H25 (EXTREMELY LUCKY). I actually needed two additional boxes but chose to order those from a 3rd party because I knew I wasn't guaranteed any sort of equipment and I only got the first two boxes for free. If you knew you were going to want so many boxes why not just order them from somewhere else since the cost wouldn't be any different and you would guarantee yourself the equipment you want?

Anyone who has ever ventured into these forums knows that you get the equipment that is on the truck that day. No one is out to screw you. It's simply luck of the draw. Sorry your crappy attitude has brought on so much pain for you.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Wally20 said:


> Anyone who has ever ventured into these forums knows that you get the equipment that is on the truck that day. No one is out to screw you. It's simply luck of the draw. Sorry your crappy attitude has brought on so much pain for you.


Exactly.



fosterfamily said:


> Long time lurker but first post.


What type of lurking were you doing exactly that you didn't know this?


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

spartanstew said:


> What type of lurking were you doing exactly that you didn't know this?


:lol: Now that's funny...


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

fosterfamily said:


> My father is a small business owner that is in disbelief of the tactics used by DirecTV to advertise one way and then deliver another. The attitude that he would pay another $400 to get what would otherwise be "luck of the draw" is simply inexcusable.


You don't have to like the policy .. In fact, I'm not sure anyone likes the policy, but it is what it is. This is leased equipment (not owned) and DIRECTV chooses to make use of all HD DVRs (HR20 - 24) and HD Receivers (H21 - H25). They only guarantee to provide you service. They don't guarantee to provide you a particular model. Folks have been saying that here @ DBSTalk for years.

What you get is totally up to what is on the truck when it rolls up to your house. It has nothing to do with anything else.


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## MartyS (Dec 29, 2006)

fosterfamily said:


> Calm down fanboys. I was simply trying to extend the DirecTV family and DirecTV was unable to deliver on the right equipment. It would have been a very simple fix for them to make and ended up costing them 2 customers.
> 
> Reasons for wanting the H24 v. H21 = size, menu performance, DECA boxes. A couple of these are for countertop TVs and the slimmer package and lack of DECA box makes for a better footprint. I may be discriminating but there is a difference as you are all aware.
> 
> ETF. Right, it might be a business model to collect these fees for dissatisfied customers but in 11 years, I've never complained thus I am very low maintenance and would be considered a "keeper" in any other business.


A true lurker to these forums would have know that there is no guarantee when it comes to the equipment that one gets. but... it's interesting that you call yourself a long time lurker but...
fosterfamily
New Member
Join Date: Mar 21, 2011
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 5
User# 97135 ​Your Join Date is, uh, let's see, *today*. All your posts are from, uh, let's see, *today*.

So, looks like we have to take everything you're saying with a grain of salt.


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## ndole (Aug 26, 2009)

Doug Brott said:


> You don't have to like the policy .. In fact, *I'm not sure anyone likes the policy*, but it is what it is. This is leased equipment (not owned) and DIRECTV chooses to make use of all HD DVRs (HR20 - 24) and HD Receivers (H21 - H25). They only guarantee to provide you service. They don't guarantee to provide you a particular model. Folks have been saying that here @ DBSTalk for years.
> 
> What you get is totally up to what is on the truck when it rolls up to your house. It has nothing to do with anything else.


That's very true. I'm sure everyone here would love to always have new IRDs. But, by what factor does the refurbishment/recycling program affect the average sub's monthly bill? If we just threw away every IRD when someone was finished using it and only installed new boxes (Trust me, I'd love that), how much more would that cost per subscriber? Probably more than anyone would be willing to pay.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Guys .. Please, let's give fosterfamily the benefit of the doubt here. He's just passing on his experience and there's nothing wrong with that.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

fosterfamily said:


> Calm down fanboys. I was simply trying to extend the DirecTV family and DirecTV was unable to deliver on the right equipment.


 The "right" equipment is what they advertised to you. That's what you got. I'm not seeing a problem unless you're illiterate, in which case you shouldn't be entering into contracts.

Calm down with the "fanboy" talk before you start getting called an entitlement troll.


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## Go Beavs (Nov 18, 2008)

MartyS said:


> A true lurker to these forums would have know that there is no guarantee when it comes to the equipment that one gets. but... it's interesting that you call yourself a long time lurker but...
> fosterfamily
> New Member
> Join Date: Mar 21, 2011
> ...


In his defense with regard to lurking, you can read lots of good information on this site without being a registered user. I read the forums for a few months before signing up.

But anyway, DIRECTV leases you a HDDVR. They all have the same feature set regardless of the model. The picture and sound from all of them is the same. That is why they don't guarantee a model. In their eyes, they are all same.


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## Hutchinshouse (Sep 28, 2006)

Go Beavs said:


> In his defense with regard to lurking, you can read lots of good information on this site without being a registered user. I read the forums for a few months before signing up.
> 
> But anyway, DIRECTV leases you a HDDVR. *They all have the same feature set regardless of the model.* The picture and sound from all of them is the same. That is why they don't guarantee a model. In their eyes, they are all same.


Wrong, the HR20 cannot do 3D. 
Not all can do OTA 
Some can hold more recordings than others.
Some are faster than others.

They're far from identical.


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## john18 (Nov 21, 2006)

Since you stated you were a long time lurker I am wondering why you didn't buy your HR24 and then apply to D* for a credit up to the paid amount of the HR24?


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Hutchinshouse said:


> Wrong, the HR20 cannot do 3D.
> Not all can do OTA
> Some can hold more recordings than others.
> Some are faster than others.
> ...


Actually,

The problem wasn't about a DVR (it was about an H21 vs H24) anyway, so the 3D portion is irrelevant, the OTA portion is irrelevant, and the size of the HD is irrelevant.


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## ShapeGSX (Sep 17, 2006)

Hutchinshouse said:


> Some can hold more recordings than others.


My HR24 (that I bought through an online retailer but still think that DirecTV's policies are ridiculous) seems downright cavernous compared to my HR20. I still haven't filled the thing up in the month and a half that I have owned it. With my HR20, I would often lose recordings in a few days if I didn't stay on top of keeping them.


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## Hutchinshouse (Sep 28, 2006)

spartanstew said:


> Actually,
> 
> The problem wasn't about a DVR (it was about an H21 vs H24) anyway, so the 3D portion is irrelevant, the OTA portion is irrelevant, and the size of the HD is irrelevant.


Actually,

My comments had nothing to do with the OP.

Reread go beavs post.


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## bcrab (Mar 7, 2007)

New customers should get NEW equipment not refurbished units(junk), a.k.a. other peoples headaches. 
Just my 2 cents.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

bcrab said:


> New customers should get NEW equipment not refurbished units(junk), a.k.a. other peoples headaches.
> Just my 2 cents.


A refurb does not mean that the box had problems. There are thousands upon thousands of boxes that go through the refurb process as a result of churn and people upgrading. SD to HD to HD-DVR.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

"bcrab" said:


> New customers should get NEW equipment not refurbished units(junk), a.k.a. other peoples headaches.
> Just my 2 cents.


If the customer receives equipment that is in perfect working order...its age doesn't matter.


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## ShapeGSX (Sep 17, 2006)

RobertE said:


> A refurb does not mean that the box had problems. There are thousands upon thousands of boxes that go through the refurb process as a result of churn and people upgrading. SD to HD to HD-DVR.


Electronics will fail at some point. When you get a refurbished unit, some of that life is used up. It is particularly bad with a DVR because it has moving parts and is something that you rely on to work reliably for years. And it is a real pain when they fail and you lose your recorded programming. Yeah, they are just shows, but that's all we are paying DTV big bucks for.

I know it is "just a lease," but to use a car analogy, I wouldn't want to lease a used car and pay the same price as a guy leasing a brand new one. I don't think it is unreasonable to be miffed about getting a refurb just because it was at the top of the pile when everyone pays the same amount.


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## rkr0923 (Sep 14, 2006)

Good for you fosterfamily....like it when people standup for what they believe in. Not saying you or D* were right or wrong, just do what you feel is right for you.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

If you want new equipment, get it yourself. If your refurb fails, they will replace it. You lost your recordings when it failed? Oh well, you never owned or even leased that content anyway. The HR's haven't even been around that long. The degree to which a refurb is more likely to fail or fail sooner than a new unit is minuscule.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

"ShapeGSX" said:


> Electronics will fail at some point. When you get a refurbished unit, some of that life is used up. It is particularly bad with a DVR because it has moving parts and is something that you rely on to work reliably for years. And it is a real pain when they fail and you lose your recorded programming. Yeah, they are just shows, but that's all we are paying DTV big bucks for.
> 
> I know it is "just a lease," but to use a car analogy, I wouldn't want to lease a used car and pay the same price as a guy leasing a brand new one. I don't think it is unreasonable to be miffed about getting a refurb just because it was at the top of the pile when everyone pays the same amount.


Car analogy. Not sure any lease claims a car is new. And shorter term rentals (hertz, Avis) charge the same for all ages of cars.

Price means nothing. All are equal in terms of randomness of getting whatever equipment making price irrelevant. In fact, new customers who get the majority of equipment pay *less* than existing customers.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

"rkr0923" said:


> Good for you fosterfamily....like it when people standup for what they believe in. Not saying you or D* were right or wrong, just do what you feel is right for you.


So stand up for what you believe in even when it is entirely false and your mistake has impacted multiple people? Sure...


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

"rkr0923" said:


> Good for you fosterfamily....like it when people standup for what they believe in. Not saying you or D* were right or wrong, just do what you feel is right for you.


Even when they are foolish?


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## TBlazer07 (Feb 5, 2009)

Hoosier205 said:


> If the customer receives equipment that is in perfect working order...its age doesn't matter.


 Age does matter with respect to a box with 1,2 or 3+ years use on it will more than likely die before a new unused one which which would cause a customer the inconvenience of losing all their recorded programming. That is the ONLY gripe I have with used, er, reconditioned (aka plugged in and it boots so it's OK to send to someone else) equipment. You can be sure they don't "recondition" anything. They MAY put in another working used, er, reconditioned hard-drive for one that is bad but that's as far as their "reconditioning" goes.

They are more likely "refurbishing" what they send out and are not "reconditioning."

http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/reconditioning.html

The fact you '"don't own" the programming is a really lousy example for it being OK if you lose it. You have a DVR to record and store, when you lose it it is quite annoying.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

TBlazer07 said:


> Age does matter with respect to a box with 1,2 or 3+ years use on it will more than likely die before a new unused one which which would cause a customer the inconvenience of losing all their recorded programming. That is the ONLY gripe I have with used, er, reconditioned (aka plugged in and it boots so it's OK to send to someone else) equipment. You can be sure they don't "recondition" anything. They MAY put in another working used, er, reconditioned hard-drive for one that is bad but that's as far as their "reconditioning" goes.
> 
> They are more likely "refurbishing" what they send out and are not "reconditioning."
> 
> ...


You have no idea what you are talking about in terms of DirecTvs refurbishing/reconditioning process. None what-so-ever.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

fosterfamily said:


> I was simply trying to extend the DirecTV family and DirecTV was unable to deliver *what I wanted*.


Fixed that for you...


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

fosterfamily said:


> In no way do I feel entitled to be special.


Then why throw a temper tantrum when you don't get what you want?


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

TBlazer07 said:


> Age does matter with respect to a box with 1,2 or 3+ years use on it will more than likely die before a new unused one which which would cause a customer the inconvenience of losing all their recorded programming.


So, if they get a brand new box, they'll never lose their recordings? In the grand scheme of things, why does it really matter if they lose their recordings 3 years from now or 2.5 years from now (hypothetically, of course)?


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

TBlazer07 said:


> You can be sure they don't "recondition" anything. They MAY put in another working used, er, reconditioned hard-drive for one that is bad but that's as far as their "reconditioning" goes.
> 
> They are more likely "refurbishing" what they send out and are not "reconditioning."


Absolutely false.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

bcrab said:


> New customers should get NEW equipment not refurbished units(junk), a.k.a. other peoples headaches.
> Just my 2 cents.


You're right, they should. Unfortunately that's not the way it works and DirecTV's website let's you know that up front.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

I will freely admit that I don't understand how the loss of recordings could be a big deal. I can't think of anything I might want to keep on my DVR long-term. If it is something that important to me, I will seek out my own personal copy of it. That's just me though.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

"RunnerFL" said:


> You're right, they should. Unfortunately that's not the way it works and DirecTV's website let's you know that up front.


I see no reason why they should.


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## TBlazer07 (Feb 5, 2009)

spartanstew said:


> So, if they get a brand new box, they'll never lose their recordings? In the grand scheme of things, why does it really matter if they lose their recordings 3 years from now or 2.5 years from now (hypothetically, of course)?


 Geez .. whatever.  I should have known better.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Hoosier205 said:


> I see no reason why they should.


Good customer relations. I'm not saying they are bad for not doing it but it would be nicer if they did.


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## TBlazer07 (Feb 5, 2009)

spartanstew said:


> Absolutely false.


 Any you've seen them at work? :lol: They fully test all the electronics, and run diags on the hard drives of all the equipment they send out? They attach each one to a dish to make sure both tuners are functioning? Yea, uhhuh. They plug 'em in, if they run they ship. Maybe they wipe the melted cheese off the covers. I'll go along with that.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

TBlazer07 said:


> Age does matter with respect to a box with 1,2 or 3+ years use on it will more than likely die before a new unused one which which would cause a customer the inconvenience of losing all their recorded programming. That is the ONLY gripe I have with used, er, reconditioned (aka plugged in and it boots so it's OK to send to someone else) equipment. You can be sure they don't "recondition" anything. They MAY put in another working used, er, reconditioned hard-drive for one that is bad but that's as far as their "reconditioning" goes.
> 
> They are more likely "refurbishing" what they send out and are not "reconditioning."
> 
> ...


Whoa. A quote from some arcane business page is THE authoritative source of what constitutes the difference, if any between the two words? 
What they say:
_"Servicing, readjusting, and recalibrating equipment or instruments to bring them to near-new or original operational level. Reconditioned goods are of later model and usually in better condition than refurbished (see refurbishing) goods. See also rebuilding and remanufacturing._"

Maybe this resides in some UTC page or other, but for most, the two are in-distinguishable.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

TBlazer07 said:


> Any you've seen them at work? :lol: They fully test all the electronics, and run diags on the hard drives of all the equipment they send out? They attach each one to a dish to make sure both tuners are functioning?


Yes, to all of the above. Try not to speak from a position of ignorance. If you don't know something, just say you don't know.


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## TBlazer07 (Feb 5, 2009)

spartanstew said:


> Yes, to all of the above. Try not to speak from a position of ignorance. If you don't know something, just say you don't know.


 Class act. You have no idea of what I have seen or know despite what you assume. Kindly keep your name calling in the schoolyard.

Edit: And I can assure you with 100% certainty they DO NOT do what you say.


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## netraa (Mar 28, 2007)

TBlazer07 said:


> Any you've seen them at work? :lol: They fully test all the electronics, and run diags on the hard drives of all the equipment they send out? They attach each one to a dish to make sure both tuners are functioning? Yea, uhhuh. They plug 'em in, if they run they ship. Maybe they wipe the melted cheese off the covers. I'll go along with that.


Actually...

They just ran a very lengthy segment about who, where, what, and how they recondition all the boxes that come in from the field in this months training video for all technicians....

So, actually....

We do.


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## RACJ2 (Aug 2, 2008)

bcrab said:


> New customers should get NEW equipment not refurbished units(junk), a.k.a. other peoples headaches.
> Just my 2 cents.


I do know the rules and understand why they recycle the old leased units. Although I do agree that they should supply new equipment to new customers. And save the old models for replacements of 
like failed units.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

bcrab said:


> New customers should get NEW equipment not refurbished units(junk), a.k.a. other peoples headaches.
> Just my 2 cents.


Should they be reserved for people who've been customers for a long time? Refurbished units are not necessarily junk though. If a unit had a bad hard drive, and it was replaced with a new one by DirecTV, what is wrong with that unit? It's refurb at that point.


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## TBlazer07 (Feb 5, 2009)

netraa said:


> Actually...
> 
> They just ran a very lengthy segment about who, where, what, and how they recondition all the boxes that come in from the field in this months training video for all technicians....
> 
> ...


 Propaganda. If they did so to all incoming boxes there wouldn't be enough to ship out. Just like the videos that show the nicely dressed techs in their clean and ironed shirts walking into customers homes with big friendly smiles on their faces.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

TBlazer07 said:


> Propaganda. If they did so to all incoming boxes there wouldn't be enough to ship out. Just like the videos that show the nicely dressed techs in their clean and ironed shirts walking into customers homes.


I'll say it again. You've got no idea what you are talking about concerning the reconditioning process of receivers.

Your just arguing for the sake of arguing.


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## TBlazer07 (Feb 5, 2009)

RobertE said:


> I'll say it again. You've got no idea what you are talking about concerning the reconditioning process of receivers.
> 
> Your just arguing for the sake of arguing.


 Well then, you're absolutely right. I concede.


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## ShapeGSX (Sep 17, 2006)

RACJ2 said:


> I do know the rules and understand why they recycle the old leased units. Although I do agree that they should supply new equipment to new customers. And save the old models for replacements of
> like failed units.


Or they should give you incentives to take used equipment instead of new. They give out the incentives anyway, DTV might as well get something more out of it, and it would at least feel like a more honest policy. Make the refurbs cheaper than the new ones. Hell, they've already gotten the lease fee out of the refurb at least once before.

They should be honest and up front about whether you will be getting a refurb or a new unit. This stuff pops up all the time on these forums. Their customers obviously care. Those that don't, such as some of the people posting in this thread, could pay less for the refurbished stuff since it doesn't matter to them if they get old, slower, less capable equipment with smaller hard drives.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

TBlazer07 said:


> Class act. You have no idea of what I have seen or know despite what you assume. Kindly keep your name calling in the schoolyard.
> 
> Edit: And I can assure you with 100% certainty they DO NOT do what you say.


There's no name calling there. You don't know what you're talking about and are taking guesses as to what happens. That's ignorance. And to compound it, you're arguing with people that do know.


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## kcaudiofx (Dec 27, 2009)

I know its already been said but ill feel better saying it myself too, its been said many many many times on here.. Should of ordered from a "Retailer" quit giving D* the business, give your local guy the business...


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## SPACEMAKER (Dec 11, 2007)

I haven't read a beatdown like this here in a while.

But a "long time lurker" knew what he was getting into when he posted this thread.


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## YtseJammer1977 (Oct 29, 2010)

ShapeGSX said:


> Or they should give you incentives to take used equipment instead of new. They give out the incentives anyway, DTV might as well get something more out of it, and it would at least feel like a more honest policy. Make the refurbs cheaper than the new ones. Hell, they've already gotten the lease fee out of the refurb at least once before.


You mean like free equipment and installation on sign up?


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## ShapeGSX (Sep 17, 2006)

YtseJammer1977 said:


> You mean like free equipment and installation on sign up?


I know you are trying to make a point, but you missed mine. I don't really care. They should just be honest about the state of the equipment you are going to get. Being completely honest about this stuff would lead to fewer complaints and more satisfied customers. I don't think the web page where you can sign up for DTV even says that the equipment you might get is refurbished. I looked, even in the fine print. Didn't see it.

Awesome user name, by the way. :icon_bb:


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

ShapeGSX said:


> I know you are trying to make a point, but you missed mine. I don't really care. They should just be honest about the state of the equipment you are going to get. Being completely honest about this stuff would lead to fewer complaints and more satisfied customers. I don't think the web page where you can sign up for DTV even says that the equipment you might get is refurbished. I looked, even in the fine print. Didn't see it.
> 
> Awesome user name, by the way. :icon_bb:


They are being honest about it. They never promised brand new equipment. I am not aware of a single television service provider in the entire world which offers entirely new equipment to each and every customer. You don't own the equipment. You're leasing the equipment for temporary usage. It makes no difference how old it is, so long as it is in working order.


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## Ed Campbell (Feb 17, 2006)

"Just a point of clarification .. I don't believe that DIRECTV advertises anywhere that you will receive an HR24 and/or an H24 as part of your install. They only advertise an HD DVR and/or an HD receiver. The advertising really isn't false in any way .. BUT .. it doesn't mean you have to like the policy. I'm just saying that it's not false advertising."

I'm a 17-year customer and everything posted here as an answer to the OP's misperception - is exactly what I've learned here and through personal experience over those years.

There isn't any false advertising going on. Excepting the years rural customers like me were stuck into Pegasus and not receiving service directly from D* - service has been at or above what I know the region I live in is capable of. I've managed and sold for technical businesses in the construction trades and know what's available. D* has always proved as good or better than any of the competition.

"Age discrimination?"

Not quite as old as your parents. I'm 73 on the outside. Though my geek brain thinks I'm still 26. I've been through age discrimination in employment and know exactly what it feels and looks like. Something I've never experienced with DirecTV.


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## ShapeGSX (Sep 17, 2006)

Hoosier205 said:


> They are being honest about it. They never promised brand new equipment. I am not aware of a single television service provider in the entire world which offers entirely new equipment to each and every customer. You don't own the equipment. You're leasing the equipment for temporary usage. It makes no difference how old it is, so long as it is in working order.


The difference is that most other TV service providers also don't charge up front for leased receivers. It is all about expectations. When you lay down the same cash up front, and not an insignificant amount, you expect the same hardware.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

ShapeGSX said:


> The difference is that most other TV service providers also don't charge up front for leased receivers. It is all about expectations. When you lay down the same cash up front, and not an insignificant amount, you expect the same hardware.


Most new customers don't pay for equipment either.


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## rkr0923 (Sep 14, 2006)

Man, I can't believe you people. The man didn't get what he expected for his Dad and you people have the audacity to call him a fool and say D* will be better off without him as a customer. Some of you have let D* go to head. Did he overreact, possible, but he has that right. If he wasn't happy he wasn't happy. Sure doesn't mean you have to talk to him like that.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Nobody said he didn't have the right to leave, but as a current customer and a LONGTIME LURKER, he should have been fully aware of what equipment might come. He should also have been aware of the fact that they won't just swap out an H21 for an H24 when there's nothing wrong with it.

He should have known what to expect (to use your word).


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

rkr0923 said:


> Man, I can't believe you people. The man didn't get what he expected for his Dad and you people have the audacity to call him a fool and say D* will be better off without him as a customer. Some of you have let D* go to head. Did he overreact, possible, but he has that right. If he wasn't happy he wasn't happy. Sure doesn't mean you have to talk to him like that.


...he didn't get what he expected because what he expected was never even suggested as a possible outcome. He was expecting something which was not suggested as being part of the offer. He threw out all the accusations and then turned out to be completely wrong. Age discrimination? Really? Good lord.  What were folks in this thread supposed to do? Hold his hand, sing a happy little song, and pretend that he wasn't wrong? He was unhappy because he based his expectation on assumptions and then believed that was somehow the fault of someone else. I feel bad for his elderly parents. It sounds like they were relying on him to set this up and he ended up dropping the ball.


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## mambipambi (Mar 22, 2011)

So 1) I am not a long time lurker 2) I have only been to this site a couple of times (I came across it looking for details on the DirecTV Sat-Go) 3) I am a business owner 4) The OP of this thread needs a reality check.

Lets see here. First of all... DirecTV installs a Receiver, HD Receiver, HD-DVR, whatever it is that meets the needs of your TV and desired level of service. Last time I heard when you sign up for cable tv or internet they don't give you new equipment. They give you what they have available. It all does more or less the same thing.

This age discrimination thing, wow man.. Seriously, that is really a pathetic argument.

Try living in another country where you have to pay extra just to get the doctor to see you. You have no clue.

So... If you really wanted the box you wanted. You should of called the local professional installers not DirecTV / Costco / Whatever. The company that installs the systems in the sports bars, etc. They can offer you the same free install, free equipment that DirecTV offers you. Difference is their installer has been doing it for longer than you've been a customer, has better testing equipment, more experience, etc. Also, they don't install AS MANY systems AS POSSIBLE in a day so they don't keep a warehouse full of the 21 box. They pick up what they need as they need it from distribution. This means, you can ask them to get a 24. Not only do you get what you want, but usually it comes to them new.

Also you could call their Executive offices and I know FOR A FACT that they will swap out an old box for a new model (even a new unit / not refurb). This is FIRST HAND!.

So, my son. Suggestion to you. Next time instead of closing two accounts, threatening to call the BBB, blah blah blah is what that means anyway. Seriously who calls the BBB to check up and make sure DirecTV is a reputable company? DirecTV doesn't care about losing a customer like you that will rant about pointless things to begin with. What you should of done is got on here and said hey. This is what happened, does anyone know how I can get the latest greatest boxes that I want? Does anyone know how to help me address this issue? I would of even given you the phone number to the exact person that I know for a FACT would of replaced the boxes for you, just to keep you happy because you were a customer for so long. But, instead.. You can do whatever it is you want. It's too bad there had to be four pages of trash added to the internet with all the *****ing about this.


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## Hutchinshouse (Sep 28, 2006)

So, did the OP perhaps go about this the wrong way? Sure. However, the OP didn't kick anyone's dog. The OP didn't talk trash about anyone's family. For the life of me I cannot understand why anyone would get defensive and defend DIRECTV as if it was their child.

That is so sad. :lol:


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

Calling the BBB is more ridiculous than calling the mob. The BBB is only good if you want to PAY them for a good rating and a sticker for your window.


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## dinotheo (Sep 22, 2006)

OK, my 2 cents here......most responses really went overboard with attacking the OP. His post was over the top, sure. But IMO the responses were disproportionate. I know that I may get similar sorts of attacks just by responding, but sometimes it gets absurd in here. 
As a long time lurker the OP should have known that any attack on DTV is usually met with defiance and often ridicule and personal attacks. 

Seriously folks, were some of these attacks really necessary? Again, the OP went overboard (though I agree that new installs should get new equipment) What it does is deter people with legitimate issues from trying to get help. Sometimes we will see a nice goodbye post from someone who is leaving DTV because of issues. Often we will see responses where people will say something to the effect of "You should have posted your problems here....we could have probably helped". When we see these mob type attacks (where everyone tries to one-up the previous responders derogatory comments) why would anyone want to put up with this mess?


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Why should they get new equipment for free when we have to pay for equipment and half the time its also previously used? Free should definitely be used...


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

"dinotheo" said:


> OK, my 2 cents here......most responses really went overboard with attacking the OP. His post was over the top, sure. But IMO the responses were disproportionate. I know that I may get similar sorts of attacks just by responding, but sometimes it gets absurd in here.
> As a long time lurker the OP should have known that any attack on DTV is usually met with defiance and often ridicule and personal attacks.
> 
> Seriously folks, were some of these attacks really necessary? Again, the OP went overboard (though I agree that new installs should get new equipment) What it does is deter people with legitimate issues from trying to get help. Sometimes we will see a nice goodbye post from someone who is leaving DTV because of issues. Often we will see responses where people will say something to the effect of "You should have posted your problems here....we could have probably helped". When we see these mob type attacks (where everyone tries to one-up the previous responders derogatory comments) why would anyone want to put up with this mess?


The OP didn't come here asking for help. He came here to blame others for his mistakes and make wild accusations. We people come here for help, they receive top notch help.


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## dinotheo (Sep 22, 2006)

Hoosier205 said:


> The OP didn't come here asking for help. He came here to blame others for his mistakes and make wild accusations. We people come here for help, they receive top notch help.


I surely didn't take it as the OP blaming others for his mistakes and making wild accusations. I thought that it was someone that was venting. Sure it may be a tad over the top, but I've seen much worse. The interpretation of the OP's intent is completely subjective.

For the sake of argument lets say that we all agree that the OP came here to blame others for his mistakes and make wild accusations...is that reason enough for the 4 pages of attacks? What is the baseline for being attacked and flamed? Are partially wild accusations enough? I just don't understand how some people react so negatively. The poster wasn't attacking anyone on here, why the need to attack him/her?


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## vbedford (Jul 25, 2008)

Hey Foster,

What are you going to get instead of D*?


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

spartanstew said:


> Actually,
> 
> The problem wasn't about a DVR (it was about an H21 vs H24) anyway, so the 3D portion is irrelevant, the OTA portion is irrelevant, and the size of the HD is irrelevant.


I believe the form factor of the HR24 was desired since it is smaller.


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## Satelliteracer (Dec 6, 2006)

rrdirectsr said:


> I'm a D** employee and the tech that set mine up showed up with 2 HR20s and an H20. Luckily for me I had something that caused the install to be delayed and when they came back out 2 weeks later we had HR24s and a H24. The only thing that matters is what the tech has on his truck.


Yup. I've been employed more than a decade and was a subscriber years prior to that. I have zero HR24's or H24's at my house. In fact, 21 series is the "latest" model I have. What's on the truck is what is available.


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## djzack67 (Sep 18, 2007)

"Doug Brott" said:


> Guys .. Please, let's give fosterfamily the benefit of the doubt here. He's just passing on his experience and there's nothing wrong with that.


Thanks Doug. I don't totally agree with the foster family, but the harsh replies from long time fellow posters is making me nervous. Let's all treat each other with respect.


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## djzack67 (Sep 18, 2007)

"Go Beavs" said:


> In his defense with regard to lurking, you can read lots of good information on this site without being a registered user. I read the forums for a few months before signing up.
> 
> Agree


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## djzack67 (Sep 18, 2007)

"rkr0923" said:


> Man, I can't believe you people. The man didn't get what he expected for his Dad and you people have the audacity to call him a fool and say D* will be better off without him as a customer. Some of you have let D* go to head. Did he overreact, possible, but he has that right. If he wasn't happy he wasn't happy. Sure doesn't mean you have to talk to him like that.


Agree


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## djzack67 (Sep 18, 2007)

"Hoosier205" said:


> The OP didn't come here asking for help. He came here to blame others for his mistakes and make wild accusations. We people come here for help, they receive top notch help.


He came to explain what happened to him.


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## djzack67 (Sep 18, 2007)

"Doug Brott" said:


> I believe the form factor of the HR24 was desired since it is smaller.


You hit the nail on the head. End of story. Can we now go back to complaining about more HD and forget about a OP's vent.


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## Joe C (Mar 3, 2005)

djzack67 said:


> "Go Beavs" said:
> 
> 
> > In his defense with regard to lurking, you can read lots of good information on this site without being a registered user. I read the forums for a few months before signing up.
> ...


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## bear263 (Dec 25, 2007)

Here's my take on this:

If you watch the D* commercials, they do state, up to date equipment or latest technology. I don't remember exactly. If you don't receive a 3D (example of latest technology) capable receiver, then it's not up to date or latest technology now is it?

It's a fine line if it's false or not.

I do think the OP went overboard on this matter though.


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## usnret (Jan 16, 2009)

Me thinks that foster has another reason for bailing.....


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

rkr0923 said:


> Man, I can't believe you people. The man didn't get what he expected for his Dad and you people have the audacity to call him a fool and say D* will be better off without him as a customer. Some of you have let D* go to head. Did he overreact, possible, but he has that right. If he wasn't happy he wasn't happy. Sure doesn't mean you have to talk to him like that.


He has a right to spread lies? False accusations of lying and age discrimination?

You have a very distorted view of rights.

Guess he can yell FIRE in a crowded theater, too, if he feels that is right for him.


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## Islandguy43 (Oct 2, 2007)

If he had gone with a local retailer he could have insisted on certain dvrs as part of the install.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

djzack67 said:


> He came to explain what happened to him.


No, he came to tell us that DirecTV used false advertising and age discrimination. That is libel.


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## sunking (Feb 17, 2004)

So a new customer is wrong for assuming that the setup he will get will have the same capability to watch that stupid battling robot from one tv to another by default? It's up to him to educate himself on their system rather than Directv educate them? In my mind that scores about a 2 in the customer service rating.

I'm still waiting for my little giraffe to show up.

And I'm also willing to buy that there is a chance that certain installers may try to pawn off the older equipment first to those who may not know any better, such as the elderly. Is this a policy? No, but there are jerks all over and to be honest it's probably a gamble that works out more often than not.


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## Go Beavs (Nov 18, 2008)

Hutchinshouse said:


> Wrong, the HR20 cannot do 3D.
> Not all can do OTA
> Some can hold more recordings than others.
> Some are faster than others.
> ...


*Hutch*, I agree they aren't identical but my point was they are similar enough that, right or wrong, DIRECTV doesn't think the differences matter. I really think they could do things better in that regard, but that is how it is and I was attempting to provide my interpretation of the reason for it.

They do seem to have procedures in place if you need 3D or OTA. You can call and get a Hx21 and above if you need 3D and AM21 modules have been sent out for free (on occasion) to customers that need an OTA solution.


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## rynorama (Feb 12, 2010)

A long time lurker would have know all this before hand.
Done


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

sunking said:


> So a new customer is wrong for assuming that the setup he will get will have the same capability to watch that stupid battling robot from one tv to another by default?


The receivers he mentioned are perfectly capable of MRV.


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## Hutchinshouse (Sep 28, 2006)

Go Beavs said:


> *Hutch*, I agree they aren't identical but my point was they are similar enough that, right or wrong, DIRECTV doesn't think the differences matter. I really think they could do things better in that regard, but that is how it is and I was attempting to provide my interpretation of the reason for it.
> 
> They do seem to have procedures in place if you need 3D or OTA. You can call and get a Hx21 and above if you need 3D and AM21 modules have been sent out for free (on occasion) to customers that need an OTA solution.


Yeah, I know what you're saying.

However, if two customers pay the very same price.

One customer gets the HR20-700.

The other gets the HR24-500 (with a faster processor, larger hard drive, 3D support and a fancy touch panel).

To me that is not fair.

I don't blame some customers for being upset. They go to the DIRECTV website and see the HR24 series pictured everywhere. They then signup for DIRECTV and receive a scratched HR20. I fully understand their displeasure.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

If they need 3D capability, they will receive a compatible receiver. If they need OTA, they will receive the necessary equipment. Unless they frequent a forum like this one, they aren't even going to know which receiver they are looking at. There is absolutely no reason why a customer should pay a different amount depending on which HR model they receive.


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## HDTVsportsfan (Nov 29, 2005)

Doug Brott said:


> I believe the form factor of the HR24 was desired since it is smaller.


I think he mentioned the desire for DECA (as a furture upgrade desire???) as well a few pages back.


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## ProgPic (Sep 13, 2009)

Hoosier205 said:


> It makes no difference how old it is, so long as it is in working order.


Now everything makes sense in my world. For years I've thought it was crazy for electronics dealers to sell used or refurbed equipment for a discount when 'It makes no difference how old it is, so long as it is in working order'. How foolish!! And I should have thought to trade in my wife when she turned forty for 2 twenties because she was still in 'working order'.

It's one thing to beef up HD channel counts for argument's sake or to wildly claim better picture quality over a competitor, but I find it hard to believe that any reasonable person could claim that older, used equipment is just as good as brand new equipment because it is still in 'working order'.

Come on, dude....lighten up a bit and actually read some of the things you post.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Hutchinshouse said:


> Yeah, I know what you're saying.
> 
> However, if two customers pay the very same price.
> 
> ...


As it is completely random on what they get, yes, it is fair.

Just as any other drawing, random contest or lottery is fair.

If you want to be assured of the latest, you can get it...at a premium. Sounds fair to me.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

This is an ongoing thing. You just have to remember, to 99.9% of the customers, it's just a cable box. They don't care so long as it works.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

ProgPic said:


> Now everything makes sense in my world. For years I've thought it was crazy for electronics dealers to sell used or refurbed equipment for a discount when 'It makes no difference how old it is, so long as it is in working order'. How foolish!! And I should have thought to trade in my wife when she turned forty for 2 twenties because she was still in 'working order'.
> 
> It's one thing to beef up HD channel counts for argument's sake or to wildly claim better picture quality over a competitor, but I find it hard to believe that any reasonable person could claim that older, used equipment is just as good as brand new equipment because it is still in 'working order'.
> 
> Come on, dude....lighten up a bit and actually read some of the things you post.


...perhaps you should read what you write. You are talking about buying merchandise. We are discussing something far different. Temporarily leasing an item which will be replaced *if* it fails, is far different than owning new or used equipment.  Name a single provider that leases used receivers at a different rate than new receivers. You aren't buying them, you're paying to use them.

If you have both a new receiver and a used receiver...and both are working perfectly...it makes no difference which receiver you use. A new HR23 isn't going to work better than a used HR23 simply due to its age. The capabilities of an HR unit are not diminished because it has been used. If the internal components are sound, it will perform just as well as a new HR unit of the same series. If a component fails, it will be replaced. The first HR's only became available a little over four years ago. Do you actually believe that first run HR20's are being handed out still? Even used HR's likely have a rather recent build date.

Channel counts are either right or they are wrong. When you count everything, they are obviously right. DirecTV has the technical ability, and apparently the preference, to offer better HD picture quality than Dish Network. There are no wild claims. Fios offers the best HD PQ because their distribution method and compression schemes allows them to. DirecTV offers better HD PQ than Dish Network because their treatment of resolution and bitrates allows them to. Dish Network offers inferior HD PQ because they have chosen to. Their customers pay for inferior HD PQ because they have chosen to.

You suggested that you trade your wife in due to her age.  Actually read some of the things that you post.


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## raoul5788 (May 14, 2006)

Hoosier205 said:


> Bla bla bla


Does Directv *EVER* do anything wrong in your mind?


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## rkr0923 (Sep 14, 2006)

raoul5788 said:


> Does Directv *EVER* do anything wrong in your mind?


Never Ever....Eveyone and Everything has died and they are GOD!
And he is Next in Line


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

raoul5788 said:


> Does Directv *EVER* do anything wrong in your mind?


Yes. Did they in this case? Obviously not.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

OK, OK, cut it out please. Let's keep to the topic, and keep away from attacking each other.


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## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

tonyd79 said:


> Car analogy. Not sure any lease claims a car is new. And shorter term rentals (hertz, Avis) charge the same for all ages of cars.


Well, Rent-a-Wreck sure costs less than Hertz. And if you're about to lease a car you can look at the odometer before you drive away to see how "new" it is.

I know what DirecTV's policy is on leasing DVR's. I don't like it, but I don't see it changing.


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## lflorack (Dec 16, 2006)

djzack67 said:


> He came to explain what happened to him.


Explain? what he really did was:

Spread misinfomtaion (at the very least)
Make false acusations (age discrimination -- gimme a break!)
Try to make DirecTv look bad -- again for something that's at least within his power to avoid
Try to gain sympathy for HIS own mistake
Ignore all of the evidence that he should have gathered during his lurking

If I did even one of those things, I'd expect to be called on it too.


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## susanandmark (Feb 15, 2007)

Wow, even with ignore turned on for the most ardent of DirecTV's fanboys, I still find this thread pretty appalling in its vitriol against the original poster. Sure, it's a bit of a stretch to say receiving old equipment is "age discrimination," but other than that the original post, as I read it, was fair, balanced and calm. You don't have to agree with his assessment, but claiming it is "libel" or any of the other outrageous barbs lobbed here, is just ridiculous. (And, by the way, as someone trained in this, a customer obliquely mentioning the term "age discrimination" or suggesting "false advertising" on an online message board is about ten million miles away from a legal definition of the term libel. Just as DirecTV's arguably fudged HD channel count or advertisements claiming superior picture, et al, vs Dish is also extremely unlikely to approach even the broadest standard of legally actionable.) 

As other (cooler heads) have (fairly) pointed out DirecTV pictures all new receivers--and touts their benefits--in its ads and marketing materials and, while I don't deny there is certainly fine print that relives them of the responsibility of actually providing that equipment to new installs, it doesn't make customers who enter into a deal expecting one thing and getting another feel any better about it. And, by the way, I highly DOUBT that anyone, even a new install, with five HD DVRs, as the OP says his parents were, got them "for free" as responders criticize ... As if that's even the point. But, yeah, I agree that when shelling out significant up front bucks, even if you got one or two free, I'd expect new equipment too. But that's me.

For new, old and otherwise installs that don't care, no harm no foul. For those that do, it seems pretty easy (and cost effective measure for DirecTV), to trade receivers out and keep those new, high dollar (meaning highly profitable) customers, and their referrer (in this case son) happy. I, personally, don't think that was an unreasonable request, especially when the original equipment had immediate issues, as the original poster explained.

Of course, I also think that if DirecTV decided, for whatever reason, that they didn't want these particular customers, or these particular customers decided they didn't want DirecTV, that's OK too. The original poster thinks he was wronged and posted about it here. You may disagree. You each are entitled to your opinions and neither position rises to the level of illegality or, I'd argue, the occasion for the kind hyperbolic responses and over-the-top accusations that followed.

This forum can be very helpful and knowledgeable, but it definitely lacks perspective. DirecTV is just a company, not a religion. One poster thinking he received poor customer service, whether you agree that is the case or not, and choosing to take his entertainment dollars elsewhere, is NOT an indictment of YOUR lifestyle. If you feel his complaint has no value to your decision making process, ignore it.

Even for the Internet this one seems beyond silly.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

An 11 year customer and long time lurker wasn't aware of basic information and apparently did nothing to seek out that information. Instead, the OP blamed everyone but himself and inconvenienced his elderly parents in the process. 

...but that's DirecTV's fault or the fault of people who have posted in this thread. That is what some would like us to believe.


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

spartanstew said:


> 1. They're all DVR's with very similar capabilities. Some have a bit larger HD and some are a bit faster, but they accomplish the same task.
> 2. Old, young, doesn't matter. They get what's available.
> 3. Instead of feeling that your folks got taken (which they didn't), perhaps you should just feel fortunate. Maybe you should have had the same result they did, but you lucked out (IYO).
> 
> IMO, you're making a lot out of nothing. You didn't even state what the problem was with the H21's. Was there a problem?


If I were leasing people laptops And I show the latest with a notation like D* has with their HD boxes. Then when you lease from me I deliver a 4 year old laptop that is much slower, has less memory, smaller Hard drive, and so on.

Would anybody defend me with phrases like I see for D* defenders that they all do the same function. So What's the complaint?

Instead I go out of my way to make people happy.
Two examples. 
a. I recently had a laptop with a 1.6Ghz processor that died during the repair process, A known weakness of that model BTW. I gave her a Laptop that had maybe 100 hours of use, 3Gb and Windows 7. Happy customer

b. I replaced a bad hard drive in a Win7 laptop that was off of warranty. It was all done and the motherboard died. I bought it off of her and made her happy.

That same week I pulled several laptops totally apart and replaced the DC in jack receptacle and did a warranty motherboard in another one. Just the luck of the draw. Two in the last year, none the year before.

Bottom line Make the customer happy. Our only advertising is word of mouth referrals. I've been here since the mid 90s.

I've had one used computer I sold in the last year come back out of all of them. I took it back reduced the price on another one, made the customer happy.

How many potential customers will this one unhappy person cost D*? I'm guessing at least a few. Happy doesn't spread the word like unhappy does.


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## Sim-X (Sep 24, 2009)

Bottom line DTV's policy makes a lot of people very upset. The best option would have been to refuse the boxes. Once you sign off your SOL. 

I love the people here who say DTV doesn't guarantee a certain model, you can't ask for this, you can't do that, bla bla. 

Well you know it's a stupid policy that DTV has. If someone requests a certain model they should give it to you, especially if your a new customer. You signing up for a 2 year bit, you should be able to pick out what you want. You ARE paying for the hardware so it should be your choice to pick out what you want. Even on a free dvr your still locking yourself up to 2 years. 

It's such a dumb policy and makes so many people upset. My advice to new customers if the installer doesn't bring what you want tell him to leave. Sucks for the installer but if everyone did this maybe DTV would shape up.

When I had comcast and wanted the new moto DCX line, I brought my old box in and walked out with a new DCX no ?'s asked. What do they care, they will just get to install my old box somewhere else to someone who could care less what model they have. It's a very small amount of people who actually care about what model they get, so if someone asks give it to them.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

TBoneit said:


> If I were leasing people laptops And I show the latest with a notation like D* has with their HD boxes. Then when you lease from me I deliver a 4 year old laptop that is much slower, has less memory, smaller Hard drive, and so on.
> 
> Would anybody defend me with phrases like I see for D* defenders that they all do the same function. So What's the complaint?
> 
> ...


It would be nice to offer every new customer a new box. But the scale and churn rate of DIRECTV precludes that from ever happening. You're a small business and can eat that cost in exchange for local goodwill. However, as was mentioned earlier in the thread, most customers don't know the difference between an HR21 and a VIP922. They're just not tech savvy and don't need to be. They want to turn on their TV, record a program and be done with it. Any HR2x does that job.

If DIRECTV just threw away receivers instead of refurbishing them a few things would happen. First, your rates would go up astronomically. Second, they'd have the EPA pounding on their door asking whey they're not reusing perfectly functional equipment. Third, DIRECTV would likely be out of business in short order.


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## ShapeGSX (Sep 17, 2006)

tcusta00 said:


> It would be nice to offer every new customer a new box. But the scale and churn rate of DIRECTV precludes that from ever happening. You're a small business and can eat that cost in exchange for local goodwill. However, as was mentioned earlier in the thread, most customers don't know the difference between an HR21 and a VIP922. They're just not tech savvy and don't need to be. They want to turn on their TV, record a program and be done with it. Any HR2x does that job.


If most people don't care what model they get, then surely they could allow those few people who do care to choose exactly what they want.


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## e4123 (Jan 31, 2011)

I can't wait until the H25 gets into the market and the complaints begin about H25's since D* says "An H25 is to be installed on NEW installations only." and "The Rule is swap an H25 ( “Like for Like” ) with an H25 receiver only" complaints start


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

ShapeGSX said:


> If most people don't care what model they get, then surely they could allow those few people who do care to choose exactly what they want.


I'm sure if they could logistically allow it, they would. But you're talking about a billion dollar corporation with multiple CSR locations and 20 million customers operating in an industry that has a churn rate that would make your head spin. And we sit over here wanting them to implement a system that would allow 2% of the customer base to request preferential treatment that totally goes "off script" and requires different supply chain procedures.

In a perfect world this would be great. But I don't think you guys that are thinking it's as easy as snapping your fingers have thought of this from the side of DIRECTV.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

ShapeGSX said:


> If most people don't care what model they get, then surely they could allow those few people who do care to choose exactly what they want.


They offer that via Solid Signal, online vendors and private installers.

IMO, they should allow 2 simple choices.
1. If you get *any *discount on the receiver, then you get whatever model you get.
2. If you're paying the $199 for the HR or $99 for the H, then you can pick.​


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

ShapeGSX said:


> If most people don't care what model they get, then surely they could allow those few people who do care to choose exactly what they want.


Not if there isn't any reason to.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

Sim-X said:


> My advice to new customers if the installer doesn't bring what you want tell him to leave. Sucks for the installer but if everyone did this maybe DTV would shape up.


Horrible advice. A great way to screw the installer and fellow customers.


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## ShapeGSX (Sep 17, 2006)

Hoosier205 said:


> Not if there isn't any reason to.


There is plenty of reason to want an HR24 over the older models. My HR24 runs circles around my HR20. It has tons more recording space built right in. It is smaller, much quieter, and runs cooler, too.

I'm somewhat regretting moving my HR20 to my bedroom because the damn hard drive is so damn loud. It's even louder than my old Tivo Series 2.

If there really weren't any differences, they wouldn't be continually designing new DVRs to replace the old models.

And there are plenty of reasons to try keep all of your customers happy. Maybe keeping customers happy would reduce some of the horrible churn that has been mentioned over and over again.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

ShapeGSX said:


> Maybe keeping customers happy would reduce some of the horrible churn that has been mentioned over and over again.


Customer service is huge, sure, but the scale of a company that has 20 million customers again precludes them from giving personal, one-on-one service that you've come to expect from your local bank. Oh wait... even they've cut out customer service in exchange for higher margins.

I'm not saying it's right.

If you're one of the 2% that absolutely must have an HR24, why not just go through SolidSignal or another retailer? If you're one of that 2% then surely you can figure out the workarounds to getting the technology you want. And DIRECTV will be happy to credit you the amount you paid if you would have been eligible for a discount through them.


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## rkr0923 (Sep 14, 2006)

All the "New" stuff is saved for people like Charlie Sheen and all the other people who don't even pay for service but are Catered to.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

susanandmark said:


> You don't have to agree with his assessment, but claiming it is "libel" or any of the other outrageous barbs lobbed here, is just ridiculous. (And, by the way, as someone trained in this, a customer obliquely mentioning the term "age discrimination" or suggesting "false advertising" on an online message board is about ten million miles away from a legal definition of the term libel.)


Really? So spreading false accusations in written form is not libel? That is exactly what it is. It may not stand up in court for damages, but accusing someone (not suggesting, but accusing them) of breaking the law is libel. Plain and simple.

This is exactly how the internet wildly allows for damage of reputation. Someone who is looking at DirecTV would search with google and find someone claiming age discrimination and false advertising. So, we should let that go unchallenged?

You may think the post is trivial but smaller posts have caused people to make decisions that the OP.

Now, if the OP had backed off....


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

TBoneit said:


> If I were leasing people laptops And I show the latest with a notation like D* has with their HD boxes. Then when you lease from me I deliver a 4 year old laptop that is much slower, has less memory, smaller Hard drive, and so on.


Actually, that is EXACTLY how we handle our PCs where I work. Unless you need the memory or speed for large computation, you get what you get. You may not get a new PC at all even though the latest is used as a benchmark in our on line request pages, etc.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

sigma1914 said:


> IMO, they should allow 2 simple choices.
> 1. If you get *any *discount on the receiver, then you get whatever model you get.
> 2. If you're paying the $199 for the HR or $99 for the H, then you can pick.​


I'd be ok with that.


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## susanandmark (Feb 15, 2007)

tonyd79 said:


> Really? So spreading false accusations in written form is not libel? That is exactly what it is. It may not stand up in court for damages, but accusing someone (not suggesting, but accusing them) of breaking the law is libel. Plain and simple.
> 
> This is exactly how the internet wildly allows for damage of reputation. Someone who is looking at DirecTV would search with google and find someone claiming age discrimination and false advertising. So, we should let that go unchallenged?
> 
> ...


Correct, "spreading false accusations in written form is not libel." To be "libel," information must be shown to be not only untrue, but detrimental, defamatory AND published with an INTENT to cause damage. A single web, message board complaint about a company, even one with far more outrageous claims than this one, doesn't even begin to meet that standard.

And what "false accusations" are you referring to? It is your (or other posters) contention that what the original poster claimed is not what happened (i.e. that his parents got old equipment because they were elderly). The original poster thinks (or thought) otherwise. Both perspectives are simply allegations. There is nothing proven to be false, or even disclaimed, by DirecTV, the only party who would have a vested interest in making a claim of libel since the installer and/or their company is not mentioned by name. Without claim or claimant and proof of both malicious intent, personal harm (tangible loss of income or decline in reputation) AND falsehood there is NO "libel." Period. End of story.

And, while the original poster would have a tough time bringing a legal suit against DirecTV regarding "false advertising," DirecTV, which DOES picture the latest receivers on its website and in current ad materials AND boasts of their speed and superiority over cable boxes, would have an equally difficult time proving such a claim is defamatory.

Using scary legal-sounding words is simply a wild over reaction to the original poster's perspective and, while offering no opinion on the validity of any of his claims, I find it offensive (and non-helpful), not to mention flat out inaccurate.

Again, suggesting his parents got inferior service, and/or equipment, pressed on them by an installer due to their age is his perspective, not libel. And, even if that idea were proven 100 percent incorrect in a court, it would STILL be a long way from "libel" via the legal definition.

What we have here is differing points of views, no need to make it any more dramatic than that.

By the way, if I were not a DirecTV customer reading this thread and considering subscription, I wouldn't take from it that DirecTV was an ageist organization. Instead, I'd think they were disorganized, with poor installers and hit or miss, at best, customer service, not to mention multiple customer unfriendly policies. ("Huh, I pay $199 or $99 for equipment, plus a monthly rental fee, and they can give me five-year-old stuff on its last legs? That stinks.") And the apologists just confirm those ideas for me, not contest them.

Instead of focusing on one guy and his parents, perhaps you should save some of your outrage for DirecTV's corporate practices.

Look, most consumers rate wireless carriers dead last when it comes to clarity of contracts and customer friendly policies, yet not even cell phone companies play this kind of bait and switch with their equipment, which is even more cost subsidized by service costs than DirecTV's. I walk in to buy an iPhone, for the same $199 an HD DVR goes for I might add, and I get a brand new iPhone. I pay for service fees, but there are no additional equipment monthly fees, and if I get a refurbished unit or an older model, it's at a lesser cost. And cell phones necessitate the same ongoing software updates and development costs of DVRs (a frequent reason given here that DirecTV "needs" to charge so much up front for their equipment). I also get to keep that iPhone, even after my contract expires. And, heck, with an iPhone, it's even automatically useful (iPhones without cell service are just iPod touches), or can even be resold on a secondary market. I paid for it, it's mine. (And, to digress, but I remember when DirecTV first started the lease program and requiring equipment returns it was laid out in this very forum that it was not to reuse old equipment--that was swatted down as a false fear--but to prevent legal resale of the equipment and curb piracy.)

DirecTV not only "won't guarantee" which model your receive with their "lease," but you do pay large, up front fees (argue all you want but parts breakdowns show these units are VERY lightly "subsidized" if at all, at least in terms of build costs, by DirecTV), PLUS additional monthly lease costs (both up front and lease fees are the same for any model), AND you sign a two-year service contract (just like cell phones), but with DirecTV you gotta give that equipment back to them so they can sell it for another $199 to another customer. Great deal for DirecTV. For the consumers? Not so much.


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

tonyd79 said:


> Actually, that is EXACTLY how we handle our PCs where I work. Unless you need the memory or speed for large computation, you get what you get. You may not get a new PC at all even though the latest is used as a benchmark in our on line request pages, etc.


Yup, if they are going to employees then that would be fine. Given how inexpensive laptops are these days it seems they could almost use new for employees.

I see many computers here the the persons company gave out free for them to use. I've heard of other companies that will only destroy them. I've seen nice at one time Thinkpad laptops that were stomped on as part of their disposal, that's after the drives were pulled BTW. It seems a waste to me.

I use a cheap laptop for financial only usage and have a nice desktop for everything else.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

"susanandmark" said:


> Correct, "spreading false accusations in written form is not libel." To be "libel," information must be shown to be not only untrue, but detrimental, defamatory AND published with an INTENT to cause damage. A single web, message board complaint about a company, even one with far more outrageous claims than this one, doesn't even begin to meet that standard.
> 
> And what "false accusations" are you referring to? It is your (or other posters) contention that what the original poster claimed is not what happened (i.e. that his parents got old equipment because they were elderly). The original poster thinks (or thought) otherwise. Both perspectives are simply allegations. There is nothing proven to be false, or even disclaimed, by DirecTV, the only party who would have a vested interest in making a claim of libel since the installer and/or their company is not mentioned by name. Without claim or claimant and proof of both malicious intent, personal harm (tangible loss of income or decline in reputation) AND falsehood there is NO "libel." Period. End of story.
> 
> ...


Bait and switch? Dear lord. You criticize others for being overly dramatic and then post...that? He suggested that DirecTV did multiple things wrong, when in fact it was he who was wrong. It is as simple as that.


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## Soulweeper (Jan 10, 2005)

fosterfamily said:


> 2. Age. I don't buy "on the truck". The same installer came back the next day to replace the faulty HR21 with an HR24. More likely trying to pawn off old equipment on unsuspecting old people.


I guess the installer that came to my in laws house a few months ago was simply much more kind hearted than the installer your dad got. They are in their 80's and 90's respectively, and they got an H24.

And, it is whatever is on the truck. I happen to be partial to the HR24 myself, and that's why I now own two of them. Have some patience, keep a diligent eye on Ebay, and you can get a good deal. I have, twice.


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## susanandmark (Feb 15, 2007)

Showing a picture of one unit with a price next to it (HR24 for $199) and then delivering a beat-up refurbished unit of a totally different model for that same price (HR20, for e.g.), which has demonstrably different functional features than touted in ads (smaller hard drive, slower interface, no 3D, etc.), may not be prosecutable as bait and switch (thanks to small "actual model may vary" print under the picture), but it's a LOT closer to that than the claims of "libel" being made against the original poster. Especially when you factor in the suggestions being made here that if you want the HR24 you saw pictured in the ad that made you sign up, you need to buy it from a retailer for an additional $199 out of pocket. (The definition of bait and switch is advertising one item and then delivering another, traditionally at a higher price point.)

And, by the way, I still think it's almost laughable (if it weren't also sad) that the most cogent argument being made here is that the original poster, a customer of 11 years who says he reads these forums, should have known that DirecTV would try to pawn off out-of-date equipment and just ponied up the money up front if he wanted to get what was pictured. That, in not doing so and trusting DirecTV to install a current model product and make a new (and existing) customer happy, he was being "foolish."


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## rkr0923 (Sep 14, 2006)

This one time I order a steak, it wasn't what I expected it to be, I sent it back. They brought me a another one, wasn't a problem to satisfy the customer. No it wasn't free, I still paid the bill just business 101, the customer is always right.


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## Xsabresx (Oct 8, 2007)

rkr0923 said:


> the customer is always right.


I cannot stress enough how much I hate that phrase.

In your example you asked for something specific and nowhere in the restaurant's policy did it say that you were not allowed to do that. Directv makes no bones about the fact that you get what is on the truck. If that doesnt work for you, there are ways to get what you want yourself. Disagreeing with their stated policy doesnt suddenly make the customer right.

IMO if there is one lesson to be learned from this thread it is that in 2011 there should never be a time where someone is uninformed/uneducated/under educated. Sometimes, however you do actually have to do some homework. The internet can give you just about anything you want.

I hope the OP finds some middle ground somewhere because it would suck that their lesson has to come with the price tag of an ETF.


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## Soulweeper (Jan 10, 2005)

ShapeGSX said:


> If most people don't care what model they get, then surely they could allow those few people who do care to choose exactly what they want.


I have felt the same way before, but odds are that will never become policy. I realize that is easier said than done, as someone said. Like I said in my previous post, I bought two owned HR24's, and I got the protection plan, so they will be replaced as owned, should they fail. Even if they don't replace them with a 24, I can sell whatever they give me, and buy a 24.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

"susanandmark" said:


> Showing a picture of one unit with a price next to it (HR24 for $199) and then delivering a beat-up refurbished unit of a totally different model for that same price (HR20, for e.g.), which has demonstrably different functional features than touted in ads (smaller hard drive, slower interface, no 3D, etc.), may not be prosecutable as bait and switch (thanks to small "actual model may vary" print under the picture), but it's a LOT closer to that than the claims of "libel" being made against the original poster. Especially when you factor in the suggestions being made here that if you want the HR24 you saw pictured in the ad that made you sign up, you need to buy it from a retailer for an additional $199 out of pocket. (The definition of bait and switch is advertising one item and then delivering another, traditionally at a higher price point.)
> 
> And, by the way, I still think it's almost laughable (if it weren't also sad) that the most cogent argument being made here is that the original poster, a customer of 11 years who says he reads these forums, should have known that DirecTV would try to pawn off out-of-date equipment and just ponied up the money up front if he wanted to get what was pictured. That, in not doing so and trusting DirecTV to install a current model product and make a new (and existing) customer happy, he was being "foolish."


A receiver is pictured. A specific receiver is neither suggested nor promised. The OP formed his own misguided conclusions and then blamed the other party when he and his parents were inconvenienced by his actions. You can push claims of "bait and switch" all you wish, but that is absolutely ridiculous. Your understanding of the bait and switch concept appears to be flawed.


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## Garry (Jul 4, 2006)

rkr0923 said:


> This one time I order a steak, it wasn't what I expected it to be, I sent it back. They brought me a another one, wasn't a problem to satisfy the customer. No it wasn't free, I still paid the bill just business 101, the customer is always right.


Not a good analogy. I don't think you are leasing that steak, at least I hope not!:eek2:


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## raoul5788 (May 14, 2006)

Hoosier205 said:


> A receiver is pictured. A specific receiver is neither suggested nor promised. The OP formed his own misguided conclusions and then blamed the other party when he and his parents were inconvenienced by his actions. You can push claims of "bait and switch" all you wish, but that is absolutely ridiculous. Your understanding of the bait and switch concept appears to be flawed.


In fact, by picturing a specific receiver, a potential customer could logically conclude that they would be getting that equipment. Why wouldn't they think so, because you say so?


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Doug Brott said:


> I believe the form factor of the HR24 was desired since it is smaller.


H24.

He has an HR24.


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## DogLover (Mar 19, 2007)

raoul5788 said:


> In fact, by picturing a specific receiver, a potential customer could logically conclude that they would be getting that equipment. Why wouldn't they think so, because you say so?


Because the text says so?


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

TBoneit said:


> If I were leasing people laptops And I show the latest with a notation like D* has with their HD boxes. Then when you lease from me I deliver a 4 year old laptop that is much slower, has less memory, smaller Hard drive, and so on.


You're missing the point.

First, the OP was talking about a receiver, not a DVR (he stated that he received the latest DVR), so less memory, smaller hard drive, etc. doesn't matter.

Is it slower? I guess. I don't know, because I don't have any H24's or HR24's. HR21's are good enough for me and I don't find them slow.

Here's the point:

*If he didn't frequent this forum, he wouldn't even have known the difference between an H21 and an H24. Since he did frequent this forum, he should have known what to expect. *

Cancelling service (on multiple accounts) because he couldn't trade in perfectly good H21's for H24's is beyond ridiculous.

I'm not saying D*'s policy of "all DVR's and receivers are equal" is the best way to handle things, but his stance and reaction was absurd.


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## rkr0923 (Sep 14, 2006)

Well I guess you can say it's like the Chevrolet Camaro Commercials you see. Their showing you the SS model with all the bells and whistles and mention the "base" price of 23,000 but what you are seeing is the 38,000 car. Fine print is up for like a nanosecond.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

raoul5788 said:


> In fact, by picturing a specific receiver, a potential customer could logically conclude that they would be getting that equipment. Why wouldn't they think so, because you say so?



A potential customer, unless they frequent a forum such as this one, is highly unlikely to know that there are different models or what they are called. You could tell them it was a TiVo and they would just nod their head in agreement. You know who cares which model they get? Only a portion of the less than 0.5% of DirecTV customers who are members of forums like this one. The rest of them just want a receiver that provides them with access to the service they are subscribed to. 
I would hope they would read the text instead of just looking at the pretty picture. Of course, at times expecting consumers to take on any responsibility for their own decisions is a bit much to ask. I am surprised by how many people purchase things like a home or a car and don't bother to actually read what they are signing. Of course when something surprises those folks...it's never their fault. (just a general statement and not directed at anyone here)


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

spartanstew said:


> H24.
> 
> He has an HR24.


typo .. read it 3 times before now and still thought I said it the right way .. :grin:


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Here is what I want to know from the OP.. If he didn't tell him anything but call and get directv, would his father have cared one iota?


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

spartanstew said:


> Cancelling service (on multiple accounts) because he couldn't trade in perfectly good H21's for H24's is beyond ridiculous.


I agree with this simply because the "fix" is very costly .. much more than simply remaining status quo and more than an alternate "fix" of just buying the receiver right now @ cost and then returning the 4 H21s.

Sure, it's great to say you stuck it to DIRECTV, but it sure seems like a lot of sticking it to yourself as well and (to me) that is very counter productive.


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## raoul5788 (May 14, 2006)

DogLover said:


> Because the text says so?


Can you post a link to an ad that shows an HR24 and says that you will get and HR24?


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

raoul5788 said:


> Can you post a link to an ad that shows an HR24 and says that you will get and HR24?


I think you ment to say "that you will not get an HR24" Either way, it's right out in the open for everyone to read.

http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/content/equipment/hd_dvr_receiver


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## raoul5788 (May 14, 2006)

RobertE said:


> I think you ment to say "that you will not get an HR24" Either way, it's right out in the open for everyone to read.
> 
> http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/content/equipment/hd_dvr_receiver


Actually I was playing a little devil's advocate with Hoosier205, but I appreciate the copy of the ad.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

"raoul5788" said:


> Actually I was playing a little devil's advocate with Hoosier205, but I appreciate the copy of the ad.


Sorry, didn't realize your post was intended for me.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

RobertE said:


> I think you ment to say "that you will not get an HR24" Either way, it's right out in the open for everyone to read.


Please don't insert irrefutable and direct information that's germane to the discussion.....


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## docderwood (Oct 27, 2006)

Still my biggest beef with DTV, and I will bail on them after 10 years if I ever get a better alternative:

Why do they make it so !#!ing inconvenient to get your preferred equipment from them?

'Nuff said



Doug Brott said:


> Just a point of clarification .. I don't believe that DIRECTV advertises anywhere that you will receive an HR24 and/or an H24 as part of your install. They only advertise an HD DVR and/or an HD receiver. The advertising really isn't false in any way .. BUT .. it doesn't mean you have to like the policy. I'm just saying that it's not false advertising.
> 
> Age discrimination? :scratchin
> I don't think so .. probably has more to do with what was on the truck that day than who it was being installed for.
> ...


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## RACJ2 (Aug 2, 2008)

docderwood said:


> Still my biggest beef with DTV, and I will bail on them after 10 years if I ever get a better alternative:
> 
> Why do they make it so !#!ing inconvenient to get your preferred equipment from them?
> 
> 'Nuff said


I think they might do it for ease of inventory control and supply and demand concerns. If they were to track the DVR by model number, they could have 100 HR21's in stock and no HR23's. If a customer has an HR23 and requests an exact replacement, they would have to wait until an HR23 is reconditioned to replace it. With no inventory control by model #, in the same situation, they have 100 DVR's available to ship for replacement. And if everyone wants the newest model, the HR21's could sit there indefinitely.


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## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

RobertE said:


> I think you ment to say "that you will not get an HR24" Either way, it's right out in the open for everyone to read.


That disclaimer may be out in the open but it's almost impossible to read on my computer monitor -- would be better in the same font and color as the text at the top of the picture. I can see where it may be easily missed.


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## raoul5788 (May 14, 2006)

Hoosier205 said:


> Sorry, didn't realize your post was intended for me.


Your grasp of the obvious does seem a bit tenuous at times!


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

spartanstew said:


> You're missing the point.
> 
> First, the OP was talking about a receiver, not a DVR (he stated that he received the latest DVR), so less memory, smaller hard drive, etc. doesn't matter.
> 
> ...


Maybe I misunderstood his post? I though he had the equipment he wanted and he was complaining about what was delivered to his relatives and that it was they who wanted (needed) small?


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

Hoosier205 said:


> A potential customer, unless they frequent a forum such as this one, is highly unlikely to know that there are different models or what they are called. You could tell them it was a TiVo and they would just nod their head in agreement. You know who cares which model they get? Only a portion of the less than 0.5% of DirecTV customers who are members of forums like this one. The rest of them just want a receiver that provides them with access to the service they are subscribed to.
> I would hope they would read the text instead of just looking at the pretty picture. Of course, at times expecting consumers to take on any responsibility for their own decisions is a bit much to ask. I am surprised by how many people purchase things like a home or a car and don't bother to actually read what they are signing. Of course when something surprises those folks...it's never their fault. (just a general statement and not directed at anyone here)


At the same time although I do look for and read the fine print, I do get tired of having to spend the extra time and tend to pass bye anything that has gotchas in fine print.

It would be nice if that print underneath were larger, matching the print size used elsewhere on the page.



inkahauts said:


> Here is what I want to know from the OP.. If he didn't tell him anything but call and get directv, would his father have cared one iota?


At the same I can not fault someone for wanting the newest/best for his parents.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

raoul5788 said:


> Your grasp of the obvious does seem a bit tenuous at times!


Nice


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## DishTSR3Mentor (Nov 3, 2006)

fosterfamily said:


> My father is a small business owner that is in disbelief of the tactics used by DirecTV to advertise one way and then deliver another. The attitude that he would pay another $400 to get what would otherwise be "luck of the draw" is simply inexcusable.


Small business owners always use this excuse. I realize that when you have sub200 clients that it becomes crucial that you pamper, babysit, and constantly appease your customer base. However, once your customer base becomes larger, as any organizational leader overseeing more than 500 people could tell you, it is virtually impossible to 100% satisfy each and every client. DirecTV has over 18 Million people to please. They have to adopt principles and policies that make this as simplistic, economical, and efficient as possible.

Your metaphor is practically as broken as your ability to fully comprehend written English. I hate to sound rude, but even if I went with the cavalier excuse that "no one reads the fine print" there's nothing in bold print that ever said you'd have an 24 Series receiver delivered to your home.

You're comparing apples to oranges... Tiny, insignificant oranges that actually think the BBB is ever a factor in someone's decision to do business on this scale... Hasta La Bye-Bye.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

DishTSR3Mentor said:


> You're comparing apples to oranges... Tiny, insignificant oranges that actually think the BBB is ever a factor in someone's decision to do business on this scale... Hasta La Bye-Bye.


The BBB already gives DIRECTV an 'F' .. we've had many discussions on this very topic. Complaining to the BBB will neither hurt nor help the situation.


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## bjlc (Aug 20, 2004)

ah.. the ultimate DEFENDERS of the rhelm.. The, DIRECTV, is NEVER WRONG guys...

well for one.. the guy should run to the District Attorney.. Deceiving the elderly.. is a great start.. 

Oh..and it will stick like SUPER GLUE.. 

two.. Directv lies.. out and out lies.. and you guys know this .. 
while their product is superior to what ever else is second.. 

their advertizing is as dishonest as the day is long.. and we have all seen it over the past 8 years.. 


I am still , to this day, waiting to get the Twins on my tv.. and even though the Twins come to LaCrosse and say, its part of our territory.. Directv, sees it different.. however other homes, 100 yards away, get both the twins and Brewers.. so do Charter customers.. or people from counties above and below all sides of me.. 

listen buddy.. this guy took advantage of your parents age.. figuring that "they won't know the difference.."

its called deceiving the elderly.. and its like any guy doing Home repairs or anything else..

call the D.A. if Directv doesn't want to make it right.. guess what.. in seconds, they ARE GOING TO MAKE it right by you.. or their man will be going to the local crow bar hotel.. or paying a very nice fine.. OR BOTH.. 

and don't listen to the defenders of Directv here.. its almost all they post about.. You say that Directv is wrong and they come out of the woodwork to defend them.. 

and as for false advertizing.. gosh.. every year, Directv out and out lies.. 

its the symbol of the company.. We make statements that we can't back or aren't true AT THIS TIME.. 

STick to your guns buddy.. this time you are right and after 11 years of service you deserve much better ..


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

Yesterday was unofficial Talk Like Williams Shatner Day. You missed it by one day.

[YOUTUBEHD]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9IdUMwWhao&hd=1[/YOUTUBEHD]

Care to back up any of your accusations?


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## bjlc (Aug 20, 2004)

My mom found some guy in the paper to do "home repair".. he took advantage of her and her age, to buy inferior product and totally mislead her..

very similar to this.. she called the Milwaukee DA.. trust me , within an hour , this guy was on the phone making restitution to her...

and she still had to give a statement to the DA..

the people are elderly.. oh.. and as for "elderly" this happened to my ma 25 years ago.. when SHE WAS MY AGE NOW.. 53.. that's elderly in the "Law's eyes"... 

so bud.. make a call or two.. 

btw.. why do you think that Directv has such a bad reputation with the BBB? 
because they have totally false adveritizing.. 

and trust me over the past 8 years here.. EVERY ONE HAS SEEN AND AKNOWLEDGED IT..


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

"bjlc" said:


> call the D.A. if Directv doesn't want to make it right.. guess what.. in seconds, they ARE GOING TO MAKE it right by you.. or their man will be going to the local crow bar hotel.. or paying a very nice fine.. OR BOTH.


They're going to imprison a DIRECTV employee for giving him an hr21 instead of an hr24. That's plausible.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

bjlc said:


> My mom found some guy in the paper to do "home repair".. he took advantage of her and her age, to buy inferior product and totally mislead her..
> 
> very similar to this.. she called the Milwaukee DA.. trust me , within an hour , this guy was on the phone making restitution to her...
> 
> ...


DirecTV hasn't paid the BBB their ransom. That's how the BBB works. Provide some proof of DirecTV lying. No, the DA would have no interest. Apparently you have no idea what function the DA serves.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

bjlc said:


> their advertizing is as dishonest as the day is long.. and we have all seen it over the past 8 years..


While you may not like DIRECTV's ads and feel that they are misleading, I think your comment here goes exactly to the legal standing of their advertizing.

If DIRECTV's advertising were illegal (legally dishonest), then why has it been allowed to continue for 8 years. Occam's razor tells us .. It's not illegal. Beyond that, feel free to make your own judgement.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

bjlc said:


> btw.. why do you think that Directv has such a bad reputation with the BBB?
> because they have totally false adveritizing..


If you took the time to review what even the BBB says about DIRECTV (other than 'F') then you'd realize that they have responded to every single complaint with the exception of one (according to the BBB). For this one failure (which give no reason, BTW) DIRECTV gets an 'F' .. There are numerous "finds" for the customer and "finds" against the customer, but the situation has been resolved between DIRECTV and the customer nonetheless. Having a good (or bad) reputation with the BBB sure isn't what it used to be.



> and trust me over the past 8 years here.. EVERY ONE HAS SEEN AND AKNOWLEDGED IT..


Not everyone .. At worst it's "marketing talk" where only the positive points are discussed. Is that misleading? perhaps, dishonest, no. So don't include me in your "acknowledgement."


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

bjlc said:


> well for one.. the guy should run to the District Attorney.. Deceiving the elderly.. is a great start..


Nice try, but it's been a well known fact for years now that you get what is on the truck. Old, young, red, blue .. it doesn't matter who you are .. Get it directly from DIRECTV and you get the luck of the draw. You don't have to like the policy, but understand the policy. There is no "deceiving the elderly" going on here.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

bjlc said:


> ah.. the ultimate DEFENDERS of the rhelm.. The, DIRECTV, is NEVER WRONG guys...
> 
> well for one.. the guy should run to the District Attorney.. Deceiving the elderly.. is a great start..
> 
> ...


Man, I wish this were TIC but then I remembered something about Christmas music....


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## pistolpete52 (Sep 3, 2010)

spartanstew said:


> That's your opinion. Since they're all the same in D*'s eyes, it's not a simple fix.
> 
> Maybe you're not reading (kinda like the advertising you didn't read) anything, but they're not advertising anything. Of course, they'll use the best picture. Guess what, my Whopper never looks like the ones in the ad either. Is that false advertising? And it doesn't matter what was installed next door, or two blocks over or across the country. They install what they have. If you want something specific, there's other ways to get it.
> 
> ...


And it's wiseass answers like yours that make people lurk instead of post. Grow up...this isn't middle school. I dumped Directv last week after 9 years because I got tired of their paltry offering of HD channels. The "Leader in HD Channels"...hah!! Yeah, if you want to subscribe to all of the premium movie channels, ST, NBA LP, PPV...other than that, they have squat.

Everyone has their reasons for leaving *D*. You don't have to jump all over a guy when he does. Having thousands of posts doesn't make you the end all and be all of Directv. Actually, it kind of looks like you don't have anything else to do except insult and demean others.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

"pistolpete52" said:


> And it's wiseass answers like yours that make people lurk instead of post. Grow up...this isn't middle school. I dumped Directv last week after 9 years because I got tired of their paltry offering of HD channels. The "Leader in HD Channels"...hah!! Yeah, if you want to subscribe to all of the premium movie channels, ST, NBA LP, PPV...other than that, they have squat.
> 
> Everyone has their reasons for leaving *D*. You don't have to jump all over a guy when he does. Having thousands of posts doesn't make you the end all and be all of Directv. Actually, it kind of looks like you don't have anything else to do except insult and demean others.


No one jumped on him for leaving. They jumped on him for being unreasonable and accusing directv of illegalities that aren't there. Oh. And for stupidity. LOL.


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## SPACEMAKER (Dec 11, 2007)

tonyd79 said:


> Man, I wish this were TIC but then I remembered something about Christmas music....


DirecTV hates families!:lol::lol::lol:


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## ndole (Aug 26, 2009)

SPACEMAKER said:


> DirecTV hates families!:lol::lol::lol:


They want children to starve and the elderly to be stuck eating dog food too.. :hurah:


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

TBoneit said:


> Maybe I misunderstood his post? I though he had the equipment he wanted and he was complaining about what was delivered to his relatives and that it was they who wanted (needed) small?


No, you're correct, but the process was driven by him and he had all the information to give his relatives.



bjlc said:


> ah.. the ultimate DEFENDERS of the rhelm.. The, DIRECTV, is NEVER WRONG guys...


This has nothing to do with D* being wrong or defending them. It's about someone who knew (or should have known) the process and then complaining and acting irrationally when what might happen, did.



pistolpete52 said:


> And it's wiseass answers like yours that make people lurk instead of post. Grow up...this isn't middle school. I dumped Directv last week after 9 years because I got tired of their paltry offering of HD channels. The "Leader in HD Channels"...hah!! Yeah, if you want to subscribe to all of the premium movie channels, ST, NBA LP, PPV...other than that, they have squat.
> 
> Everyone has their reasons for leaving *D*. You don't have to jump all over a guy when he does. Having thousands of posts doesn't make you the end all and be all of Directv. Actually, it kind of looks like you don't have anything else to do except insult and demean others.


Yep, everyone has their reasons for leaving D* and there's nothing wrong with that. If another provider has the HD that you need and you drop D* to go with them, that's perfectly reasonable and it's what I would encourage anyone to do. That's not what happened here. The OP knew D*'s policy on this, but then was surprised when it occurred and claimed all sorts of absurd things (age discrimination, etc.). That's why he was jumped on. And I do have lots of other things to do besides insult and demean others, it just so happens that the lack of common sense and reasoning among many members of this site, make insulting and demeaning very easy.


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## raoul5788 (May 14, 2006)

pistolpete52 said:


> And it's wiseass answers like yours that make people lurk instead of post. Grow up...this isn't middle school. I dumped Directv last week after 9 years because I got tired of their paltry offering of HD channels. The "Leader in HD Channels"...hah!! Yeah, if you want to subscribe to all of the premium movie channels, ST, NBA LP, PPV...other than that, they have squat.
> 
> Everyone has their reasons for leaving *D*. You don't have to jump all over a guy when he does. Having thousands of posts doesn't make you the end all and be all of Directv. Actually, it kind of looks like you don't have anything else to do except insult and demean others.


160 or so hd channels is paltry? You live in a world no one that I know does.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

raoul5788 said:


> 160 or so hd channels is paltry? You live in a world no one that I know does.


It's not how many you have. It's the one you don't.


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## vbedford (Jul 25, 2008)

And Foster is MIA.

He posted and disappeared


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## Scott Kocourek (Jun 13, 2009)

Let's try and be civil.

Insulting other members and namecalling will not be tolerated.

Get back to topic.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

TBoneit said:


> At the same time although I do look for and read the fine print, I do get tired of having to spend the extra time and tend to pass bye anything that has gotchas in fine print.
> 
> It would be nice if that print underneath were larger, matching the print size used elsewhere on the page.


Well, that's why it's called "the fine print".... It's the 'gotchas' that their lawyers-or management- tell them they have to, or ought to disclose.

Yes, why it might be nice, virtually no ad I've seen puts their "fine print" in anything but..... fine print. At least now with HD and DVRs, we can read such on any TV ad.


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## NUTZ (Mar 23, 2011)

Is this forum always like this?


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Yes, a lot of whining goes on.


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## slt101 (Jun 18, 2010)

When I had my installation done last year the installer said he didn't have any H24 receivers on his truck. I told him if he couldn't give me the H24 receivers that he could cancel the job order. He got on the phone to his office and with in 30 minutes he had the H24 receivers to install.


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## NUTZ (Mar 23, 2011)

And people that stick up for Directv no matter what? I'm almost afraid to complain.


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## Hutchinshouse (Sep 28, 2006)

NUTZ said:


> And people that stick up for Directv no matter what? I'm almost afraid to complain.


Let it fly. BFD what others think.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

NUTZ said:


> And people that stick up for Directv no matter what? I'm almost afraid to complain.


This isn't as bad as usenet, but, yes, there are folks who'll always bash, and those who'll always bash back on almost any side of almost any issue.

You can read a few dozen threads to see how the greens roll, type of grass, and how it's bent.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

"slt101" said:


> When I had my installation done last year the installer said he didn't have any H24 receivers on his truck. I told him if he couldn't give me the H24 receivers that he could cancel the job order. He got on the phone to his office and with in 30 minutes he had the H24 receivers to install.


I'm glad he was able to meet your demands and not end up getting screwed by your cancelation or delaying another customer's installation. Next time, if you want a specific receiver, just get one yourself.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

NUTZ said:


> And people that stick up for Directv no matter what? I'm almost afraid to complain.


I'm getting a bit tired of repeating this, but either nobody is actually reading the thread or comprehension abilities are getting worse.

Who stuck up for D*?

They have a policy.

Right or wrong, that's the policy.

The OP knew (or should have known) what the policy was, but chose to complain and act irrationally anyways.

It's not about D*'s policy, it's about the OP and his decision making ability.

If you want to start a thread about this particular policy and why it is what it is, go ahead. I'm sure there'll be a lot of logical thought put into it.

I'll repeat: I don't particularly like the policy from a customer perspective, but I also understand it from a business perspective and there's a lot of reasons why it makes sense. The OP's behavior, however, makes no sense.


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## raoul5788 (May 14, 2006)

Shades228 said:


> It's not how many you have. It's the one you don't.


Actually, it's the ones you do have. Directv has YES, they have me.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

spartanstew said:


> I'm getting a bit tired of repeating this, but either nobody is actually reading the thread or comprehension abilities are getting worse.
> 
> Who stuck up for D*?
> 
> ...


I actually forgot what the OP's issue was. Oh yea, didn't read the fine print in the ad. Fine print in ads has been around for close to 50 years, but YMMV [and didn't that come from fine print?] :lol:


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

spartanstew said:


> I'm getting a bit tired of repeating this, but either nobody is actually reading the thread or comprehension abilities are getting worse.
> 
> Who stuck up for D*?
> 
> ...


fanboy


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

lol, thief.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

NUTZ said:


> And people that stick up for Directv no matter what? I'm almost afraid to complain.


Go ahead and complain...and discuss. I do. 

Mike


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Mike Bertelson said:


> Go ahead and complain...and discuss. I do.
> 
> Mike


Yeah, but you've only got 10k in posts here, so..... :lol:


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

Laxguy said:


> This isn't as bad as usenet, but, yes, there are folks who'll always bash, and those who'll always bash back on almost any side of almost any issue.
> 
> You can read a few dozen threads to see how the greens roll, type of grass, and how it's bent.


I think a dozen is pushing it. Reading one or two will suffice. It's always the same handful on both sides.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

raott said:


> I think a dozen is pushing it. Reading one or two will suffice. It's always the same handful on both sides.


Haters gonna hate.


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

RobertE said:


> Haters gonna hate.


Was "haters" directed at me or Laxguy who I was simply agreeing with or both?


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

raott said:


> Was "haters" directed at me or Laxguy who I was simply agreeing with or both?


Just in general terms.


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## RACJ2 (Aug 2, 2008)

slt101 said:


> When I had my installation done last year the installer said he didn't have any H24 receivers on his truck. I told him if he couldn't give me the H24 receivers that he could cancel the job order. He got on the phone to his office and with in 30 minutes he had the H24 receivers to install.


I don't blame you for holding out until you got what you wanted. When the installer called to confirm my appointment, I asked what equipment he had. When he didn't have a SWiM LNB to install (back when that wasn't the norm), I rescheduled. I asked for the model of DVR's I wanted and a SWiM LNB and they agreed to it, rescheduled and installed what I wanted. I'm out of my commitment now and remain a happy loyal customer, because I've been taken care of.


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## rkr0923 (Sep 14, 2006)

pistolpete52....I love you lol


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## NUTZ (Mar 23, 2011)

NUTZ said:


> And people that stick up for Directv no matter what? I'm almost afraid to complain.





spartanstew said:


> I'm getting a bit tired of repeating this, but either nobody is actually reading the thread or comprehension abilities are getting worse.


If you are tired of repeating it then stop, it's a pretty simple task.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

OK guys .. I think we've had enough of the back and forth in this thread .. I'm going to close this one down. If anyone feels it should stay open, please send me a PM.

Thanks.


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