# Prime Suspect chopped



## russ9

http://insidetv.ew.com/2011/11/15/prime-suspect-to-wrap-for-good-after-13-episodes/

So long, Maria Bello: You were good while you lasted. Production on NBC's Prime Suspect will shut down after the 13th episode, which is currently filming in New York. The network just announced its new midseason lineup and the cop drama is not on it.

Another remake, The Firm, will bow in its place.

The series, while appreciated by critics, was not embraced by viewers: The remake only averaged a 1.7 rating in adults 18-49 and 6.1 million viewers. Since NBC already canceled Playboy and Free Agents, NBC clearly wanted to keep its options open on Prime Suspect before deciding to yank another low-rated new show off its schedule. It tried running repeats of the show on other nights, but Bello and her cohorts just couldn't scare up more viewers.

For now, NBC is not saying Prime Suspect is canceled, though cast members were reportedly told the show is history.


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## MysteryMan

NBC: No Broadcast Content


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## mreposter

NBC is in a difficult position, it just seems like no matter what they put on the air, no one is interested.


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## trh

NBC Changes Line Up thread


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## Drucifer

mreposter said:


> NBC is in a difficult position, it just seems like no matter what they put on the air, no one is interested.


I keep seeing a bunch of monkeys pushing keys when I think of how decisions are made at NBC.


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## Lord Vader

MysteryMan said:


> NBC: No Broadcast Content


And I thought its new meaning was *N*othing *B*ut *C*rap


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## Holydoc

Thanks for the heads-up. Deleted from the DVR.


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## makaiguy

Holydoc said:


> Thanks for the heads-up. Deleted from the DVR.


If you like the show, why not at least continue to watch the remaining episodes? I know I will continue to enjoy them while they last.


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## Holydoc

makaiguy said:


> If you like the show, why not at least continue to watch the remaining episodes? I know I will continue to enjoy them while they last.


I hate watching a show that has no ending. It is like reading a book with the last chapter torn out.

Luckily, I had not watched any of the episodes and just had them on the DVR ready for me to watch. This is how we normally handle new shows. 
1) Set up series pass
2) watch a couple of the shows
3) if we don't like the show, we delete all taped and series pass
4) If we like the show, we continue to watch and leave series pass permanent

In the case where shows get cancelled before we have had a chance to watch a couple of them, we feel that if they were bad enough to get cancelled, then there is no reason to waste our time watching them. We have plenty of other shows waiting on us.


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## lparsons21

This is one of those cop shows that doesn't need an 'ending' to be good. Each episode stands on its own pretty well. So I will keep it in my timers until it is gone.

I'm sorry to see this one go, it was developing nicely imo.


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## spaul

I agree that this show is still worth viewing while it lasts ,it is a shame this is 1 of 3 shows on NBC worth watching.I guess nothing has changed since Comcast took over just cosmetic changes same as their cable business .


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## hilmar2k

It's a pretty decent show, in my opinion. Had it landed on another network it probably would have done quite well. Too bad....


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## trh

So those that aren't watching it because the network canceled it are basically letting the networks decide what is worthy and what isn't. I've seen to many great shows get canceled; no way am I letting the networks decide.


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## Holydoc

trh said:


> So those that aren't watching it because the network canceled it are basically letting the networks decide what is worthy and what isn't. I've seen to many great shows get canceled; no way am I letting the networks decide.


Trh,

I guess I do not understand what you are trying to say. If the network cancels a show, aren't they the one deciding whether you watch it or not? I mean once the network DECIDES to cancel it, the show stops. There are no more new shows. Just because I think a thursday night show is wonderful does not mean I get a choice to watch it every thursday night if the Network DECIDES to cancel it.

I am sorry. I guess I am just confused.


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## Doug Brott

NBC should consider bringing in a whole new "ER" crew and pick up where they left off with that show. If they're doing remakes anyway, why not remake something that helped them out for so many years.


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## SayWhat?

Holydoc said:


> If the network cancels a show, aren't they the one deciding whether you watch it or not? I mean once the network DECIDES to cancel it, the show stops. There are no more new shows.


Umm, No?

Why else would there be such a large market for TV shows on DVD?

And recorders in their various forms?

And the whole revival of classic TV shows on so many networks?

Why would one refuse to watch earlier episode of a series just because there are no new ones?


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## Rich

I really liked this show. I'm surprised its ratings were so low. The official announcement of its cancellation has come out. Shame, intelligent, well written, well cast, what more could you ask for in a show?

Rich


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## Nick

Holydoc said:


> I hate watching a show that has no ending. It is like reading a book with the last chapter torn out...In the case where shows get cancelled before we have had a chance to watch a couple of them, we feel that if they were bad enough to get cancelled, then there is no reason to waste our time watching them. We have plenty of other shows waiting on us.


Your logic astounds me, but to each, his or her own as the case may be. If you choose to let others make your viewing decisions for you, so be it, but as stated previously, each epi of _Prime Suspect_ stands alone and Maria Bello is certainly worth _my_ time.

Sorry to see it go.


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## SayWhat?

> Shame, intelligent, well written, well cast, what more could you ask for in a show?


Snooky?

Kardashians?


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## spartanstew

Hadn't watched any of them yet and too many other shows on the DVR. No need to invest my time in this one now. Delete.


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## Ira Lacher

rich584 said:


> I really liked this show. I'm surprised its ratings were so low. The official announcement of its cancellation has come out. Shame, intelligent, well written, well cast, what more could you ask for in a show?
> 
> Rich


Maybe because it had no pervasive story arc? _Prime Suspect_ is more like the old pre-_Dallas_ soap-opera shows that had each episode stand on its own and instead concentrated on telling a crisp story and developing the characters from week to week. Now, it seems, dramas have to be serials to keep viewers coming back--a gimmick that frequently disguises inferior writing, IMHO.


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## Rich

Ira Lacher said:


> Maybe because it had no pervasive story arc? _Prime Suspect_ is more like the old pre-_Dallas_ soap-opera shows that had each episode stand on its own and instead concentrated on telling a crisp story and developing the characters from week to week. Now, it seems, dramas have to be serials to keep viewers coming back--a gimmick that frequently disguises inferior writing, IMHO.


Law&Order had no pervasive story arc and it stayed around for quite a while. Never ceases to amaze me how shows that I enjoy get cancelled.

Rich


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## trh

Holydoc said:


> Trh,
> 
> I guess I do not understand what you are trying to say. If the network cancels a show, aren't they the one deciding whether you watch it or not? I mean once the network DECIDES to cancel it, the show stops. There are no more new shows. Just because I think a thursday night show is wonderful does not mean I get a choice to watch it every thursday night if the Network DECIDES to cancel it.
> 
> I am sorry. I guess I am just confused.


Certainly, once a network cancels a show, you can't watch it any future shows. But there will be at least 13 episodes of this show (NBC officially has said the show isn't canceled -- they are "weighing their options" what to do with the show).

M*A*S*H was almost canceled after their first season. then they got slotted behind "All in the Family" during their second season; the rest is history.

Chicago Code and Detroit 187 are two shows from last season that I really enjoyed -- even after I heard they were being canceled. Whether Prime Suspect gets picked up for future shows on NBC or another network doesn't matter to me. I'm enjoying the shows now.

EDIT: Bottom line: The networks have proven time and time again, that they don't always make the right decisions.


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## makaiguy

trh said:


> Chicago Code and Detroit 187 are two shows from last season that I really enjoyed -- even after I heard they were being canceled.


BINGO!


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## Holydoc

Nick said:


> Your logic astounds me, but to each, his or her own as the case may be. If you choose to let others make your viewing decisions for you, so be it, but as stated previously, each epi of _Prime Suspect_ stands alone and Maria Bello is certainly worth _my_ time.
> 
> Sorry to see it go.


Well I hope my only "claim to fame" is not just being able to astound Nick. 



trh said:


> Certainly, once a network cancels a show, you can't watch it any future shows. But there will be at least 13 episodes of this show (NBC officially has said the show isn't canceled -- they are "weighing their options" what to do with the show).
> 
> M*A*S*H was almost canceled after their first season. then they got slotted behind "All in the Family" during their second season; the rest is history.
> 
> Chicago Code and Detroit 187 are two shows from last season that I really enjoyed -- even after I heard they were being canceled. Whether Prime Suspect gets picked up for future shows on NBC or another network doesn't matter to me. I'm enjoying the shows now.
> 
> EDIT: Bottom line: The networks have proven time and time again, that they don't always make the right decisions.


Thanks for the clarification Trh. I completely agree that networks have proven many times that they do not always make the right decisions. I guess with the exception of comedies, my family is more into serialized dramas. We enjoy an over-arching storyline and love to watch the characters change and develop because of it. I guess that is why we love shows like Justified, Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones, Walking Dead, etc. We enjoy following from a beginning to an end. Makes me miss Lost, 24, Battlestar Galactica, etc.

Again thanks for being patient, and I understand what you are saying now. For those that like a story tied up within an hour, Prime Suspect had an entertaining (though short) run.

For us serialized types (how did Nick say it?) with "astounding logic", it probably was not the type of story for us.


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## yosoyellobo

We could hope it be pick up by TNT like Southland.


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## trh

Holydoc said:


> For us serialized types (how did Nick say it?) with "astounding logic", it probably was not the type of story for us.


Just tell me that as a "serialized type", you're not anxiously awaiting "Dallas" next summer.


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## Lord Vader

I am!!!


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## gilviv

yosoyellobo said:


> We could hope it be pick up by TNT like Southland.


It sucks that it is cancelled on NBC.:nono2: It would probably do better at TNT, I think?


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## Holydoc

trh said:


> Just tell me that as a "serialized type", you're not anxiously awaiting "Dallas" next summer.


Ouch! No, I think we will skip that one. LOL


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## TANK

The episodes were getting better. 

Too bad for Kenny Johnson he got blown up in SOA ( he was also blown up in the Shield ) and now his new show is cancelled.


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## Drucifer

trh said:


> Certainly, once a network cancels a show, you can't watch it any future shows. But there will be at least 13 episodes of this show (NBC officially has said the show isn't canceled -- they are "weighing their options" what to do with the show).
> 
> M*A*S*H was almost canceled after their first season. then they got slotted behind "All in the Family" during their second season; the rest is history.
> 
> *Chicago Code* and *Detroit 187* are two shows from last season that I really enjoyed -- even after I heard they were being canceled. Whether Prime Suspect gets picked up for future shows on NBC or another network doesn't matter to me. I'm enjoying the shows now.
> 
> EDIT: Bottom line: The networks have proven time and time again, that they don't always make the right decisions.


I liked those two too. Also _The Cape_.


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## cj9788

TANK said:


> The episodes were getting better.
> 
> Too bad for Kenny Johnson he got blown up in SOA ( he was also blown up in the Shield ) and now his new show is canceled.


I hope no one who reads this thread has not seen the recent episode of SOA cause that is quite the spoiler..

Prime Suspect is a great show sorry to see it go. Most shows that tell a different story each week usually have a season finale that ends with a to be continued, I hope that is not the case with Prime Suspect.


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## lwilli201

spartanstew said:


> Hadn't watched any of them yet and too many other shows on the DVR. No need to invest my time in this one now. Delete.


To bad you are going to delete without watching. It is a good show and each episode is pretty much stand alone so nothing is lost by watching this show even if cut short by NBC. It is almost like not watching a movie because it will not have a hundred sequels.


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## TBoneit

makaiguy said:


> If you like the show, why not at least continue to watch the remaining episodes? I know I will continue to enjoy them while they last.





lparsons21 said:


> This is one of those cop shows that doesn't need an 'ending' to be good. Each episode stands on its own pretty well. So I will keep it in my timers until it is gone.
> 
> I'm sorry to see this one go, it was developing nicely imo.





trh said:


> So those that aren't watching it because the network canceled it are basically letting the networks decide what is worthy and what isn't. I've seen to many great shows get canceled; no way am I letting the networks decide.





Nick said:


> Your logic astounds me, but to each, his or her own as the case may be. If you choose to let others make your viewing decisions for you, so be it, but as stated previously, each epi of _Prime Suspect_ stands alone and Maria Bello is certainly worth _my_ time.
> 
> Sorry to see it go.





Ira Lacher said:


> Maybe because it had no pervasive story arc? _Prime Suspect_ is more like the old pre-_Dallas_ soap-opera shows that had each episode stand on its own and instead concentrated on telling a crisp story and developing the characters from week to week. Now, it seems, dramas have to be serials to keep viewers coming back--a gimmick that frequently disguises inferior writing, IMHO.





lwilli201 said:


> To bad you are going to delete without watching. It is a good show and each episode is pretty much stand alone so nothing is lost by watching this show even if cut short by NBC. It is almost like not watching a movie because it will not have a hundred sequels.


I intend to keep watching this show too and I agree with the quotes above. I much prefer shows where each episode stands on its own.



Holydoc said:


> Thanks for the heads-up. Deleted from the DVR.


You just missed some good hour long stand on their own shows.


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## spartanstew

lwilli201 said:


> To bad you are going to delete without watching. It is a good show and each episode is pretty much stand alone so nothing is lost by watching this show even if cut short by NBC. It is almost like not watching a movie because it will not have a hundred sequels.


As I said, too many other shows. I rarely start watching new shows until I know they've been picked up, then I watch them over the summer. I'm sure every show that gets cancelled is liked by someone and it's not about story arcs, it's about investing in the characters.

But, even fewer shows now. I told my wife to go ahead and delete all of the shows, because it was cancelled and she deleted the season of Unforgettable instead.


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## Castlebill

It's a good show - she's great.


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## 50+

Really liked the show sorry to here about the cancellation.
Bellow is great, hope she gets another show.


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## TBoneit

spartanstew said:


> As I said, too many other shows. I rarely start watching new shows until I know they've been picked up, then I watch them over the summer. I'm sure every show that gets cancelled is liked by someone and it's not about story arcs, it's about investing in the characters.
> 
> But, even fewer shows now. I told my wife to go ahead and delete all of the shows, because it was cancelled and she deleted the season of Unforgettable instead.


Another good show.....

I don't get the investing in the characters thing. I watch for the plot, not the characters. A Lot of the shows I watch and like I could not tell you who stars in them since I don't care I care about the story for that episode.

They do have to fit the Story line of course if Big Bang Theory's girl across the hall had been played by Big Bertha I most likely would not be watching it. 
Unplug Kaley Cuoco and plug in some other good looking woman and it is still good.


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## spartanstew

And I don't watch shows for the attractiveness of the cast.


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## Rich

Just watched the latest episode. Best one so far. Damn shame to see this show cancelled. I usually record series in their entirety and watch them all at once, but we got caught up in this excellent show and never thought it would be cancelled.

Rich


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## makaiguy

spartanstew said:


> And I don't watch shows for the attractiveness of the cast.


Don't let that hold you back. Maria Bellow, although in my opinion a very nicely attractive woman when she wants to be, is definitely toned down in this program to look more like a working cop.


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## bobukcat

Add me to the list of people disappointed to hear it's being cancelled. My wife and I really enjoy this show and I have to think it would be doing well if on any other network. It's exactly the same kind of scripted cop-drama that draws huge numbers on CBS (but better executed than CSI IMHO) but for some reason can't find a larger audience on NBC.


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## Ira Lacher

CBS seems to have always portrayed itself as the more conservative (read: old-time TV, not political) network, so except for a small number of reality shows, it continues to rely on scripted shows. And its audience knows this is the network to go to for those traditionally well-written, well-acted scripted shows. For that reasons, its demographics tend to skew older. (Although with today's economy, 55 and up is rapidly becoming the demographic with the most disposable income.)

NBC, on the other hand, is just the opposite, pushing for what they consider the hipper, younger demographic that hasn't grown up watching scripted dramas. So when its audience sees such a show on the NBC schedule, they say "Whazzat?" and ignore it. I agree -- _Prime Suspect_ would be a natural for CBS.


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## Rich

bobukcat said:


> Add me to the list of people disappointed to hear it's being cancelled. My wife and I really enjoy this show and I have to think it would be doing well if on any other network. It's exactly the same kind of scripted cop-drama that draws huge numbers on CBS (but better executed than CSI IMHO) but for some reason can't find a larger audience on NBC.


Puzzling, isn't it? Couldn't ask for a better cast, better writing and yet they're gonna flush it. But NBC is not the only channel that makes these mistakes. In it's first year, _The Good Wife_ almost got canceled. These shows that are "critically acclaimed", yet lack high audience numbers are the shows the nets should hold onto and give them a chance to build an audience.

Rich


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## Steve

Anyone who watched last week's episode (Underwater) is probably wondering why there's no audience for this show. It was excellent, IMHO.


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## TBoneit

I liked that episode too. I liked the road trip.

Oh well, I'll enjoy while I can. That might even be the only NBC show I'm watching.


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## lwilli201

This show just gets better and better. When I though it could not get better, there was last nights "Gone to Pieces". The interaction between the characters is getting better every week. Some of the squad room banter was hilarious.


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## dpeters11

That's the problem, shows don't get enough time to get into the groove. Thinking back to the late 80s, Star Trek Next Gen wasn't all that great for two seasons, then really started getting good in the third and lasted 7. Now shows don't get a chance to sometimes get through half a season.


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## Rich

dpeters11 said:


> That's the problem, shows don't get enough time to get into the groove. Thinking back to the late 80s, Star Trek Next Gen wasn't all that great for two seasons, then really started getting good in the third and lasted 7. Now shows don't get a chance to sometimes get through half a season.


Really disturbing to see _Unforgettable _"on the bubble" while _Prime Suspect_, with a far superior cast and better story lines has been cancelled. Without Poppy, I would find _Unforgettable_ very forgettable.

Rich


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## TBoneit

I have to agree, the last show was good. 

Darned shame about the cancel, however Life will go on.


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## phrelin

TBoneit said:


> I have to agree, the last show was good.
> 
> Darned shame about the cancel, however Life will go on.


Actually, NBC cancelled "Life" in 2009 at the end of Season 2 as a casualty of both the writers' strike and being on NBC, a show with a great cast that was well-written which my wife and I really liked:








The stars were Damian Lewis (currently starring in "Homeland" on Showtime), Sarah Shahi (currently starring in "Fairly Legal" on USA returning this Summer), and Adam Arkin (probably best remembered as Dr. Aaron Shutt in "Chicago Hope"), along with Melissa Sagemiller (currently the ADA in "L&O: SVU" and Robin Weigert (probably best remembered as Calamity Jane in "Deadwood").


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## mreposter

Damian Lewis was also in the funny hit man / romantic comedy Assassin in Love - aka The Baker a couple years back. It's fairly funny and a good couples movie, if you and your significant other are looking for something to watch together.

Nikolaj Coster-Waldau (from the under appreciated New Amsterdam) is also in the movie.


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## Supramom2000

Rich said:


> Really disturbing to see _Unforgettable _"on the bubble" while _Prime Suspect_, with a far superior cast and better story lines has been cancelled. Without Poppy, I would find _Unforgettable_ very forgettable.
> 
> Rich


Actually, she's the reason I am not fond of the show. I find her character annoying, arrogant, condescending and far too full of herself. And I intensely dislike her fake red hair.

I like the rest of the team a great deal. And the story lines are okay.

For some reason, I don't mind that same sort of "*****iness" in Dana Delaney's character over on Body of Proof.


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## Steve

phrelin said:


> Actually, NBC cancelled "Life" in 2009 at the end of Season 2 as a casualty of both the writers' strike and being on NBC, a show with a great cast that was well-written which my wife and I really liked [...]


We really liked _Life _as well, along with _Studio 60_, which got canceled a year earlier, IIRC. We'll mourn _Prime Suspect_ as well.


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## Rich

Supramom2000 said:


> Actually, she's the reason I am not fond of the show. I find her character annoying, arrogant, condescending and far too full of herself. And I intensely dislike her fake red hair.


Yup, I do too, but she is physically attractive and I've got a feeling that her character is the result of poor writing.



> I like the rest of the team a great deal. And the story lines are okay.


Compared to _Prime Suspects_ cast? I keep waiting for Christian Troy to show up...:lol:



> For some reason, I don't mind that same sort of "*****iness" in Dana Delaney's character over on Body of Proof.


We gave up on that show. Just didn't seem like it was gonna make it.

Rich


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## bobukcat

phrelin said:


> Adam Arkin (probably best remembered as Dr. Aaron Shutt in "Chicago Hope")


My favorite role of his will always be as Adam - the extremely volatile recluse / master chef / know-it-all / compulsive liar on "Northern Exposure"! :hurah:


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## TBoneit

I still a darned shame, I just watched this weeks episode. One of the few things I've watched recently where I didn't skip past slow parts.


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## armophob

I am a little surprised about Prime Suspect getting cancelled. It did not seem that high over America's heads. Kind of like a Burn Notice for network tv. I guess that does not fair well for Human Target either.


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## Rich

TBoneit said:


> I still a darned shame, I just watched this weeks episode. One of the few things I've watched recently where I didn't skip past slow parts.


Harder and harder to understand, isn't it?

Rich


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## Rich

armophob said:


> I am a little surprised about Prime Suspect getting cancelled. It did not seem that high over America's heads. Kind of like a Burn Notice for network tv. I guess that does not fair well for Human Target either.


Stupidest cancellation of the year. We ought to give awards to the people responsible for cancelling shows like _Prime Suspect_, unpleasant awards.

Rich


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## n3ntj

"Rich" said:


> Stupidest cancellation of the year. We ought to give awards to the people responsible for cancelling shows like Prime Suspect, unpleasant awards.
> 
> Rich


Agreed. Prime Suspect is a hell of a lot better than the crap that the networks leave on and keep renewing.


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## Rich

n3ntj said:


> Agreed. Prime Suspect is a hell of a lot better than the crap that the networks leave on and keep renewing.


I considered making a list of worse shows, but I'd get flamed.

It just kills me that _Unforgettable _got renewed or will be renewed and _Prime Suspect goes_ down forever. I figured I'd pick out a show to criticize that I can at least watch. Poppy being Poppy..... :lol:

Rich


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## mreposter

n3ntj said:


> Agreed. Prime Suspect is a hell of a lot better than the crap that the networks leave on and keep renewing.


Unfortunately, the viewing public voted with their clickers and Prime Suspect lost. If more people had watched, it would have been renewed.

I'm a bit surprised, I thought NBC's new programming team would have given a few of this season's shows some extra time to see if they could build an audience, but they've most of the new fall lineup. They've also been signing deals left and right for new shows, so they seem anxious to bring in their own new series.

Phrelin is pretty down on NBC right now and I tend to agree with him. THere's a big chunk of the viewing public that have just about written off the network in prime time and don't even both to look at what might be on NBC. It's going to be really difficult for them to rebuild the network if they just keep launching and canceling shows so quickly.


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## Rich

mreposter said:


> Unfortunately, the viewing public voted with their clickers and Prime Suspect lost. If more people had watched, it would have been renewed.
> 
> I'm a bit surprised, I thought NBC's new programming team would have given a few of this season's shows some extra time to see if they could build an audience, but they've most of the new fall lineup. They've also been signing deals left and right for new shows, so they seem anxious to bring in their own new series.
> 
> Phrelin is pretty down on NBC right now and I tend to agree with him. THere's a big chunk of the viewing public that have just about written off the network in prime time and don't even both to look at what might be on NBC. It's going to be really difficult for them to rebuild the network if they just keep launching and canceling shows so quickly.


I don't have any idea how to implement this, but I think DVR usage should be factored in for longer periods of time. I record many series and don't watch them until they run the Season Finale. I'm sure many other DVR users do the same thing. If I recall correctly, *Phrelin *said a few months ago that DVR usage was only counted for a week or so. I don't think that's long enough. We just happened upon Prime Suspect by chance, normally with a cancellation such as this we would have wiped out the Series Link and never had seen the show.

Somehow, the long term DVR recordings should be factored in.

Rich


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## makaiguy

Rich said:


> Somehow, the long term DVR recordings should be factored in.


The advertisers are the ones that care about ratings, and I don't think the advertisers give a crap about some viewing that may occur in the undefined future. They want eyeballs on their ads soon enough for their ads to have an effect. December "Toyotathon" or Best Buy "Black Friday" ads don't have much meaning in June...


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## Rich

makaiguy said:


> The advertisers are the ones that care about ratings, and I don't think the advertisers give a crap about some viewing that may occur in the undefined future. They want eyeballs on their ads soon enough for their ads to have an effect. December "Toyotathon" or Best Buy "Black Friday" ads don't have much meaning in June...


Yup, that's why I said I didn't have any idea how to implement counting DVR usage. Maybe it's just not possible using your scenario.

Rich


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## mreposter

Don't quote me on this, but I believe DVR/On-Demand viewers are measured two ways, "Live+2", or within 48 hours of original broadcast and "Live+7", with the Live+2 number being the most commonly used measure in the industry.


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## Supramom2000

I agree that it is better than Unforgettable, but after just watching the original Prime Suspect on PBS all summer, fall and ongoing now, this show is nothing like Helen Mirren's version. Even though the original is almost 20 years old, it is still way better than this version. I noticed that we all liked the episode with all the shooting action, but some of the others have been pretty boring in my opinion.


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## Rich

Supramom2000 said:


> I agree that it is better than Unforgettable, but after just watching the original Prime Suspect on PBS all summer, fall and ongoing now, this show is nothing like Helen Mirren's version. Even though the original is almost 20 years old, it is still way better than this version.  I noticed that we all liked the episode with all the shooting action, but some of the others have been pretty boring in my opinion.


Thanx, *Mom*. I'll put the PBS version on my queue in NetFlix, had no idea there was an older version.

Rich


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## Rich

mreposter said:


> Don't quote me on this, but I believe DVR/On-Demand viewers are measured two ways, "Live+2", or within 48 hours of original broadcast and "Live+7", with the Live+2 number being the most commonly used measure in the industry.


And I'd guess you're referring to the Nielson way of rating shows. Even if they had a way of saying so many people recorded this show tonight, would that even show up in the ratings? I would imagine they ask the people that are connected to Nielson's ratings software what their viewing habits are. Would they even care about those of us who watch shows much later than seven days?

*Makaiguy *makes a good point in his post.

Are those of us who don't watch a series until it's done for the year actually detrimental to a show's ratings?

Rich


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## Supramom2000

Rich said:


> Thanx, *Mom*. I'll put the PBS version on my queue in NetFlix, had no idea there was an older version.
> 
> Rich


The BBC version with Helen Mirren is gritty, dark and moving. I loved it! I originally caught it back around 1997 on Encore's Mystery Channel. I had never heard of it, so I managed to record every one I could find. Then I even purchased one set on DVD. Over the past 5 or 10 years, I catch PBS replaying it, so I always record them again.

It's amazing how you forget about the lack of cell phones and other high tech stuff when the stories and plots and characters are so gripping.


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## Rich

Supramom2000 said:


> The BBC version with Helen Mirren is gritty, dark and moving. I loved it! I originally caught it back around 1997 on Encore's Mystery Channel. I had never heard of it, so I managed to record every one I could find. Then I even purchased one set on DVD. Over the past 5 or 10 years, I catch PBS replaying it, so I always record them again.
> 
> It's amazing how you forget about the lack of cell phones and other high tech stuff when the stories and plots and characters are so gripping.


I just added all six seasons to my NF queue.

Most of our present Hi-Tech stuff wasn't generally in use in the early '90s and it is interesting to see how folks coped without it. Seems strange to see a desk without a computer on it.

Rich


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## phrelin

It's funny. American remakes of Brit shows usually are flops for me. The Helen Mirren version of this show, as I remember it, didn't feel much like this remake - nothing like the "Life on Mars" fiasco.

I really do like Maria Bello's character and the other regular characters portrayed by seasoned actors. The writing has allowed for character development within the routine of a police procedural. I really wish CBS had picked this show instead of "Unforgettable" which to me is just ok.

Regarding the earlier discussion here about ratings, ad agencies and their customers the advertisers, have problems converting data other than live viewers into hypothetical value. Many accept Live+Same Day numbers now. But the industry is still dominated by the mid-20th Century ad agency patterns portrayed in "Mad Men."

TVbytheNumbers offer this explanation regarding Nielsen ratings which in part explains:


> *Time Shifted Viewing* - Program ratings for national sources are produced in three streams of data - Live, Live + Same Day (Live+SD) and Live + 7 Day (Live+7). Time shifted figures account for incremental viewing that takes place with DVRs which are currently in approximately 24.4% of all U.S. TV households. Live + Same Day include viewing during the same broadcast day as the original telecast, with a cut-off of 3:00AM local time when meters transmit daily viewing to Nielsen for processing. Live+ 7 Day ratings include incremental viewing that takes place during the 7 days following a telecast.


Network execs try to sell Live+7 Day and some ad agencies do look at the various data on "eyes on ads" from signal provider metering which generates ad skipping data.

Also the business is coping with data from "online" viewing which tends to get scrambled into the web ad viewing data generally rather than TV ad viewing.

It's pretty clear, for instance, that because of its core audience The CW is selling "Live+7 day" and web site viewing. Advertisers marketing to a female 12-29 audience or some subset thereof are forced to be more aware of changing viewing habits. Regardless of any marketing effort by CBS, advertisers know females 12-2 is not an audience that's going to watch "NCIS" live. Fortunately for CBS, it is a 50% owner of The CW giving it access to the shifting habits and interests of young people.

CBS is the only major media company heavily dependent upon broadcast TV. NBCU, Disney/ABC, and News Corp's Fox, along with Time Warner (CBS's partner in The CW and not affiliated with the cable company) all have a significant presence in the cable channel business and on the web.

Since before The Great Recession and the Comcast majority share purchase from GE, NBCU's TV profit growth has come from its cable channels. GE's annual report bragged about the success of the cable channels, while downplaying the failures of NBC. And it's interest in HULU was an investment in the future that might return a profit, someday.

It's unfortunate that "Prime Suspect" and some other quality shows have died on NBC mostly because it can't deliver a prime time 3-hour live audience. Simply if a network can't deliver a habituated audience at 9 pm, it won't have one at 10 pm. Plus it's easiest if it has an 8 pm audience to build on. And by "habituated" I mean take a look at the network's schedules for the next two weeks and see which ones a buying habitual watching for the rest of the season (hint: CBS).


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## TBoneit

phrelin said:


> It's funny. American remakes of Brit shows usually are flops for me. The Helen Mirren version of this show, as I remember it, didn't feel much like this remake - nothing like the "Life on Mars" fiasco.


I wonder what would happen if they redid Steptoe & son here again without Red Foxx.
I didn't really care for Steptoe but did watch Sanford and son.

Man About the House in the UK = Threes' Company here. 
Sequel
George and Mildred in the UK = The Roper's here.
Sequel
Robin's Nest in the UK = Three's a crowd here.

When you watch Man About the House's first episodes you have basically watched three's company's first episodes.

The American remakes are funny but having seen both I preferred the "Man About the House" episodes as being funnier.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_About_the_House


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## TBoneit

Rich said:


> Thanx, *Mom*. I'll put the PBS version on my queue in NetFlix, had no idea there was an older version.
> 
> Rich


I used to watch it back in the day. & I enjoyed it then. I haven't watched the UK version recently to see how well it held up.



Rich said:


> I just added all six seasons to my NF queue.
> 
> Most of our present Hi-Tech stuff wasn't generally in use in the early '90s and it is interesting to see how folks coped without it. Seems strange to see a desk without a computer on it.
> 
> Rich


They had computers, They just called them different names like IBM Selectric and Smith Corona


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## TBoneit

Rich said:


> Stupidest cancellation of the year. We ought to give awards to the people responsible for cancelling shows like _Prime Suspect_, unpleasant awards.
> 
> Rich


What prime time show hasn't NBC cancelled quickly?

OTOH I didn't' care for the start of Grimm, It was a slow evening so I watched one the other night and it was much improved. Too little, to late?


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## n3ntj

The Prime Suspect finales last night were very good.. too bad some idiot at NBC decided to cancel this show and instead they put more reality TV and other crap on.


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## phrelin

If CBS had purchased this show instead of "Unforgettable" we'd all be watching, or at least recording, "Prime Suspect" on Tuesday at 10:00 for several years to come. But that's the way it is....


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## tampa8

phrelin said:


> If CBS had purchased this show instead of "Unforgettable" we'd all be watching, or at least recording, "Prime Suspect" on Tuesday at 10:00 for several years to come. But that's the way it is....


Agreed. CBS, are you listening.


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## Steve

We loved the last two episodes as well. Excellent writing, and the characters really developed over the course of the too short season. Terrific casting, IMHO.


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## armophob

This show has USAnetwork written all over it. Hopefully they will pick it up where it leaves off.


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## spaul

If not USA at least TNT or even FX ,this show was very watchable and good cast.


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## Rich

TBoneit said:


> What prime time show hasn't NBC cancelled quickly?
> 
> OTOH I didn't' care for the start of Grimm, It was a slow evening so I watched one the other night and it was much improved. Too little, to late?


We've been pretty much ignoring Grimm. Not deliberately, but no one has said, "Let's watch Grimm."

Rich


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## pfp

I watched the first two episodes of Prime Suspect and liked it. I was stockpiling episodes to view later when my DVR died. I'm so happy DirecTV has no way to transfer saved content to the replacement DVR.


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## Rich

pfp said:


> I watched the first two episodes of Prime Suspect and liked it. I was stockpiling episodes to view later when my DVR died. I'm so happy DirecTV has no way to transfer saved content to the replacement DVR.


Don't feel like you're alone. We've been asking to have all HRs read all HDDs within an account for years. Apparently D* feels that not enough people care about this and have done nothing about it.

Rich


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## armophob

Are we killing these shows with our dvr's?
It seems like this sites population is generally disappointed with most of the cancellations. Is it possible that the dvr using public is having an adverse affect on the ratings of these shows?


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## Rich

armophob said:


> Are we killing these shows with our dvr's?
> It seems like this sites population is generally disappointed with most of the cancellations. Is it possible that the dvr using public is having an adverse affect on the ratings of these shows?


Most definitely. You'd think Neilson or whoever they get the ratings from would include "What did you record". Right now, they only track recordings for a week. At least that's what I've gleaned from many posts about this.

Rich


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## phrelin

armophob said:


> Are we killing these shows with our dvr's?
> It seems like this sites population is generally disappointed with most of the cancellations. Is it possible that the dvr using public is having an adverse affect on the ratings of these shows?


Forgive me for this long response, but it is a matter that I feel strongly about.

The reality is "Prime Suspect" wasn't being watched live by many in the 18-34 male demo.

As of 2012, advertisers love shows that draw age 18-34 males watching live commercials. Apparently they are now the hardest to find watching broadcast TV in prime time. And they are deemed more easily influenced by advertising. If you watch the syfy/fantasy genre shows now on such as "Once Upon a Time" and "Alcatraz" you may have noted that ads from the gaming universe are appearing more and more frequently.

Look at the cast in "Prime Suspect" and try to figure out which member was hired to appeal to age 18-34 males. (Yes it matters what the cast looks like and if you don't care you aren't among the group that will determine whether a show will survive - get over it even though I haven't.) Look at the recurring story lines and try to figure out how it will appeal to the average age 18-34 male. (Yes, complex scripts with emotion-filled relationships are death to a show on broadcast TV - get over it even though I haven't.)

The fact that a Nielsen household DVR's a show is in the data available to those that pay for data - namely the channels. But they tell Nielsen what reports they will pay for and right now only live viewing, live+same day, and live+7 days are of any interest. That's because they use this info to peddle their advertising time to advertisers.

If you occasionally watch PBS you'll note that some advertising is appearing. These advertisers are unusual in that the company's executives want to be associated with production value quality.

Most other advertisers have different goals that are simple - they want to know (a) if you watch their ads and (b) if you do you might be influenced by the ads. And because of the latter issue, it makes the choices disturbing IMHO. If you have reached the age of 50 they don't give a crap about whether you watch the show, the ads, or the sunset out the window (which means my wife and I wouldn't be considered worth anything by most high-paying prime time advertisers).

The channel folks try to use live+7 days data to help sell to advertisers. Advertisers are telling them that data isn't worth much because all the evidence indicates DVR viewing means skipped advertising.

So here in our home we are old and watch everything via DVR and mostly at least a day or two after it was recorded. We are in a demo that if we didn't exist it would not matter for broadcast TV. But....

We pay for higher tier cable packages and premium channel packages to get decent programming. That money flow a few years ago caught the attention of News Corp (Fox), Disney (ABC), NBCU (NBC) and CBS (which is also half owner of The CW). Hence all the retransmission fee negotiations and Fox basically eliminating all affliliates where the owner would agree to pay them $1 a month per cable/satellite subscriber.

That's the way the TV biz is in 2012.

TVbytheNumbers has a very good and a somewhat entertaining analysis of all this at Numbers 102 and they have retained the dry explanation Numbers 101.


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## pfp

armophob said:


> Are we killing these shows with our dvr's?
> It seems like this sites population is generally disappointed with most of the cancellations. Is it possible that the dvr using public is having an adverse affect on the ratings of these shows?


I can't see how unless you are one of the few Nielsen homes


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