# Man! Am I ticked! Can't watch 1080p via HDMI connction due to "content protection"?!?



## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

WTF is going on here? I record _Iron Man 2_ on one of the PPV 1080p channels, and for the first time *ever*, I get this BIG blue message nag:



> Your TV does not support this program's content protection. Replacing the TV's HDMI cable with component cables will allow you to view the program.


Huh? Are they frickin' serious?!? I've got a top-of-the-line HDTV. I've got 3 HD DVRs connected to this TV via an Onkyo A/V receiver. From the Onkyo to my TV goes a single HDMI cable.

And DirecTV is telling me this (when I called technical support):



> *I'm sorry, sir, but this is a new content restriction. In order to watch this and similar 1080p movies, you will have to change your cables to component cables. *


This is absolutely unacceptable! I connect via HDMI simply *because *it transmits 1080p, and now I'm being told to go to cables that cannot support 1080p? Then why the hell do they *have *1080p movies when this asinine content restriction precludes the ability to use the equipment necessary to see 1080p?

What the heck is going on here?


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

I think you might find plugging the HDTV directly into the DVR will allow you to view it. I do not believe A/V receivers will pass blocked HDCP all the time. Might be wrong, but it would be easy to test.


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

That's unacceptable. Behind my TV and other items it's like a Space Shuttle control panel with all those wires and cables. I'm not going to rewire an entire system, give up the best quality, just to watch a stupid 1080p PPV movie. For one thing it would take me forever to do this.

Moreover, I didn't have this issue the last time I watched a 1080p PPV movie, or the countless times before that.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Davenlr said:


> I think you might find plugging the HDTV directly into the DVR will allow you to view it. I do not believe A/V receivers will pass blocked HDCP all the time. Might be wrong, but it would be easy to test.


It depends on the receiver. At first, my HR24-100 didn't pass it through my Yamaha...software fixed it.


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

Which software? Note: This happened on my HR20-700.

I haven't tried it on my HR22-100.


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## Alebob911 (Mar 22, 2007)

Strange! You would think it would say that opposite. Use HDMI vs Comp. I have an HR22-100 to Onkyo to Samsung Plasma. HR is on current CE.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Lord Vader said:


> Which software? Note: This happened on my HR20-700.
> 
> I haven't tried it on my HR22-100.


HR24s...sorry.


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

Well, I've got the same problem on my HR22-100s.

I'm not going to even bother with my HR24s, because those are in a different room, and MRV is so bad with all its buffering and pixelization that watching it that way won't work.


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## Igor (Jan 3, 2005)

I suggest posting the AV system model and the model of the television. This could help to get better information from other that might have similar configuration.


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## Alebob911 (Mar 22, 2007)

Boy you've got some bad luck! :lol: MRV has been pretty OK for me. (not doubting you)


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

Vitor said:


> I suggest posting the AV system model and the model of the television. This could help to get better information from other that might have similar configuration.


Onkyo 875 A/V.

HDTV is a Sammy 67" one. Now I have to double-check the actual model #. Time to get the reading glasses!


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Lord Vader said:


> Well, I've got the same problem on my HR22-100s.
> 
> I'm not going to even bother with my HR24s, because those are in a different room, and MRV is so bad with all its buffering and pixelization that watching it that way won't work.


I guess you don't have DECA?


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## Alebob911 (Mar 22, 2007)

No DECA here and no problems.


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

No DECA here, and even with Internet speeds of 25 down and 6 up, I get lots of freezing among rooms. Now, among receivers in the _*same *_ room, well, that's fine.

FWIW, the problems recently started; but that's a different issue. I'm concerned about this content protection thing.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Lord Vader said:


> No DECA here, and even with Internet speeds of 25 down and 6 up, I get lots of freezing among rooms. Now, among receivers in the _*same *_ room, well, that's fine.
> 
> FWIW, the problems recently started.


Internet provider speeds have no affect...it's your router, wiring, etc.


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

MRV stability is more related to the quality of the ethernet cables and brand/speed of switch/router...unless you are talking about watching VOD in real time. You should, at minimum, if not using DECA, have all the Directv boxes hardwired to a 10base100 switch. A gigabit switch would be the best choice, as it would, hopefully, pass your gigabit connected network traffic faster, leaving more time available for your 100 video stuff.


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## Alebob911 (Mar 22, 2007)

Agreed. I have all my HR's connected to a NETGEAR gigabit switch and it seems to work well. As well I use a NETGEAR router.


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

sigma1914 said:


> Internet provider speeds have no affect...it's your router, wiring, etc.


Yeah, I know, but having a high-quality router like I do (upgraded from an older wireless g one) should preclude these problems.


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

Davenlr said:


> A gigabit switch would be the best choice, as it would, hopefully, pass your gigabit connected network traffic faster, leaving more time available for your 100 video stuff.


I'm using just such a switch.

Now, :backtotop

WTF is this @#$% content protection/HDMI/component/1080p crap?!?


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

I suspect your Onkyo software is not passing the HDCP requests/reply from the monitor correctly. If you cannot try it directly to the TV, then search for anyone having the same problems with your model A/V receiver. Perhaps the have an upgrade.

http://www.avforums.com/forums/onkyo-products/889270-onkyo-875-owners-thread-part-2-a.html

Has lots of HDCP issues in it doing a quick search...


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

No one else appears to be having this problem, and my Onkyo should not be doing this, especially because it has not done this before. Ever. Not even last weekend.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Lord Vader said:


> give up the best quality


You won't be giving up any quality if you run HDMI to the display and optical to the receiver.


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

Yes I will, because all the optical inputs/outputs are being used by other devices, which means I won't be able to go that route if I wanted to; and no, there aren't enough digital coax slots available either (that would be poorer quality anyway). 

Again, why is this suddenly happening? It's totally unacceptable.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

I know this doesn't solve your issue, but all 3 of your DVR's are connected to the receiver via HDMI and you're still using all 3 optical inputs and all 3 coax inputs? You have 9+ items connected to this receiver?


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Lord Vader said:


> Again, why is this suddenly happening? It's totally unacceptable.


If you are unwilling to try running an HDMI cable directly from your HR to your TV to help troubleshoot the issue there isn't much more we can do to help you.

You have to rule that out as the problem first.


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

spartanstew said:


> I know this doesn't solve your issue, but all 3 of your DVR's are connected to the receiver via HDMI and you're still using all 3 optical inputs and all 3 coax inputs? You have 9+ items connected to this receiver?


Just about. 



RunnerFL said:


> If you are unwilling to try running an HDMI cable directly from your HR to your TV to help troubleshoot the issue there isn't much more we can do to help you.
> 
> You have to rule that out as the problem first.


Ruled out. I was gone for a bit while I almost electrocuted myself trying to do this. I get the same problem.


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## skyboysea (Nov 1, 2002)

I got the same error trying to watch the first few minutes of "Robin Hood." Playing some other title worked fine. 

The HR20-700 is connected directly to the tv via HDMI.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Lord Vader said:


> ...
> Again, why is this suddenly happening? It's totally unacceptable.


Why? Because the studios are pushing newer and stronger requirements for copy protection down to everyone.

For instance many new BDs can't play on older players simply because the encryption has changed and the manufacturers have abandoned them. Sucks!

As for this particular case, I don't know if DIRECTV or _Iron Man 2_ has a new copy protection scheme this week, or the latest HR2x software has a hdcp problem, or the Samsung can't play correctly with any new stuff. Generally speaking, the more information you can post here, the better chance DIRECTV will have at tracking down the problem and possibly fixing any of their problems or working around a TV's problems...

And you might find there is a software upgrade available for your TV.

Good luck,
Tom


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

But it sure seems that DirecTV has the content protecting reason all backwards, because almost everything is usually prohibited from operating at 1080p if they are using component cables. Blu-ray and even upconverting SD players are only allowed to send 1080i through component, and if you want 1080p it must be through a HDMI cable. It is not in any way a limitation of component cables, it is a HDCP rule.


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## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

Lord Vader said:


> But it sure seems that DirecTV has the content protecting reason all backwards, because almost everything is usually prohibited from operating at 1080p if they are using component cables. Blu-ray and even upconverting SD players are only allowed to send 1080i through component, and if you want 1080p it must be through a HDMI cable. It is not in any way a limitation of component cables, it is a HDCP rule.


Maybe the DirecTV statement isn't very clear. When you go to component connections, you are NOT getting 1080p you are getting 1080i. There is of course no HDCP over component. Not that you will see any difference in the picture quality between the 1080p/24 and the 1080i signals.


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## sdirv (Dec 14, 2008)

sigma1914 said:


> It depends on the receiver. At first, my HR24-100 didn't pass it through my Yamaha...software fixed it.


I've had the problem a couple times when I forgot to switch my system back to "watch tv" mode. Had it setup so the programming was routed to the TV from the DVR to my AV receiver to my DVD Recorder via s-video....at which point the DVD recorder upconverts to 1080p over HDMI the the TV and BINGO......error message.

Found that I was getting a good signal over the s-video so I could record the programming to DVD OK, just couldn't watch it at the same time. Switching my stuff back to "watch tv" mode fixed it......programming was once again going from DVD to (Sony) AV Receiver to the TV......all over HDMI without issue.


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## RBTO (Apr 11, 2009)

This might be an obvious option that you've already tried, but it worked when I had an HDMI handshake problem out of the blue - try rebooting your receiver.


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

That didn't work. I did yell and scream at it, though.

I re-recorded the movie last night. I'll try to watch it later tonight and see if the same problem recurs.


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## shawnsheridan (Oct 10, 2010)

My money is on Iron Man 2. On 9/30/10 DVDFab updated "DVD Copy" & "DVD Ripper" adding "support for a new copy protection as found on "Iron Man 2" (US)."

I can't post any URL's; however you can verify it on their website 

"www.dvdfab.com/dvd_fab_new.htm"

I think the new copy protection is causing the problem, which is why it has worked in the past.


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

Interesting.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Try the first 5 minutes of any other 1080p PPV movie to test, also.


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## shawnsheridan (Oct 10, 2010)

I don't know alot about how HDCP over HDMI works; however, maybe DTV and or Onkyo will release firmware upgardes to allow full 1080p with this new copy protection.

As for Optical Outputs, and more specifically TV Optical Outputs:



> You won't be giving up any quality if you run HDMI to the display and optical to the receiver.


While Digital Audio Connections (Coax Digital Audio and Optical Toslink Digital Audio support multiple, discrete, surround sound channels (5.1), most newer TV's begining with 2008 models will pass the full Dolby Digital signal out the Optical Output ONLY for Coax input signals; HDMI input signals instead are down converted from Dolby Digital to 2.1 Channel Stereo audio (PCM).

Read more here if you want:

"http://ars.samsung.com/customer/usa/jsp/faqs/faqs_view_us.jsp?SITE_ID=1&PG_ID=0&AT_ID=22061&PROD_SUB_ID=0&PROD_ID=41"


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

shawnsheridan said:


> ...
> 
> As for Optical Outputs, and more specifically TV Optical Outputs:
> 
> ...


Who would go hook up TV audio out to a stereo? Out from the Directv box to receiver is smarter.


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## shawnsheridan (Oct 10, 2010)

It was a suggestion made by spartanstew on page 1 which I quoted above:



> You won't be giving up any quality if you run HDMI to the display and optical to the receiver.


I am just pointing out that it is likely untrue, and you will probably give up DD to end up with PCM.


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## shawnsheridan (Oct 10, 2010)

Ok. I am an idiot. I just figured out how to properly quote it with a link:



spartanstew said:


> You won't be giving up any quality if you run HDMI to the display and optical to the receiver.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

shawnsheridan said:


> It was a suggestion made by spartanstew on page 1 which I quoted above:
> 
> I am just pointing out that it is likely untrue, and you will probably give up DD to end up with PCM.


You won't lose anything if hooked up the way I suggested.


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## shawnsheridan (Oct 10, 2010)

I'm agreeing with you. Straight into the Receiver via HDMI is the way to go, which is how he is currently hooked up.


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## sdirv (Dec 14, 2008)

shawnsheridan said:


> My money is on Iron Man 2. On 9/30/10 DVDFab updated "DVD Copy" & "DVD Ripper" adding "support for a new copy protection as found on "Iron Man 2" (US)."
> 
> I can't post any URL's; however you can verify it on their website
> 
> ...


Must be why I was so happy to see several retailers selling Ironman 2 on Blueray in release week for about $17...just finished watching it with my grandson......


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

I may get it anyway. If I like a movie enough, I often buy it on BD.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

shawnsheridan said:


> It was a suggestion made by spartanstew on page 1 which I quoted above:


I never made any such suggestion.



shawnsheridan said:


> I am just pointing out that it is likely untrue, and you will probably give up DD to end up with PCM.


HDMI to the display and optical to the receiver gives up nothing.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

sdirv said:


> Must be why I was so happy to see several retailers selling Ironman 2 on Blueray in release week for about $17...just finished watching it with my grandson......


Just finished watching it with the wife. Loved it.


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## shawnsheridan (Oct 10, 2010)

spartanstew said:


> I never made any such suggestion.


Maybe I misunderstood this:



spartanstew said:


> You won't be giving up any quality if you run HDMI to the display and optical to the receiver.


But it seems you were telling him to bypass his AV Recevier and run the DTV Receiver straight to his TV, and the TV Optical Output into the AV Receiver:

If that is the case, then I respectfully disagree with doing so and your subsequent contention:



spartanstew said:


> HDMI to the display and optical to the receiver gives up nothing.


Most TV Optical Outputs will downconvert 5.1 DD to 2.1 PCM with an HDMI Input signal.

If you meant somethine else though, sorry, my mistake.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

shawnsheridan said:


> Maybe I misunderstood this:


Yes, you did.


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## shawnsheridan (Oct 10, 2010)

spartanstew said:


> Yes, you did.


Ok then. Well, sans any clarification of what you actualy did mean, thanks for confirming my misread just the same, so others will also know that what you wrote isn't what it seems. And again, my apologies.


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

I thing he meant from the DVR, run HDMI to the display and optical to the AVR. Not run HDMI to the display and optical from the display to the AVR.


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## shawnsheridan (Oct 10, 2010)

Thanks Dave. I considered that as one option of what he meant, but it is unclear one way or the other, so I posted about the TV Optical Output being downconverted in case anyone reading the thread took it to mean the TV Optical Out. Not a big deal. The more information that is put out here, the better it is for everyone.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

shawnsheridan said:


> I considered that as one option of what he meant, but it is unclear one way or the other,


I can assure you, it was clear to everyone else.


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## Yoda-DBSguy (Nov 4, 2006)

Try sometyhing just for kicks.... Unplug the hdmi cable from the back of your receiver and do a red button reset. Let it boot up (giving it about 10 mins just to play it safe; rehook the hdmi cable and retry playing the ppv in question. I have done this on a couple of customers 1080p sets and then it played just fine. Somehow the hdmi was locked up but only for 1080p content until I did the above.....


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## shawnsheridan (Oct 10, 2010)

spartanstew said:


> I can assure you, it was clear to everyone else.


Everyone else? Really? Well, thanks for that assurance. I guess I am the only one in the world who lacks the ability to derive specifics from your statements where none exists.


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

shawnsheridan said:


> Everyone else? Really? Well, thanks for that assurance. I guess I am the only one in the world who lacks the ability to derive specifics from your statements where none exists.


When one finds oneself in a hole, the best strategy is to stop digging.


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## shawnsheridan (Oct 10, 2010)

hasan said:


> When one finds oneself in a hole, the best strategy is to stop digging.


I couldn't agree more.


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## joed32 (Jul 27, 2006)

Davenlr said:


> I thing he meant from the DVR, run HDMI to the display and optical to the AVR. Not run HDMI to the display and optical from the display to the AVR.


Exactly. Running optical from the STB to the AV receiver gives you the same audio quality from the AVR as HDMI would. It also allows you to watch something on the TV without turning on your Surround Sound system.


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

FYI...

I have received more than one call from DirecTV regarding this issue, the last a lengthy voice mail (I was out when he called) from a gentleman in the engineering dept. He personally apologized for what he described as "absolutely wrong information regarding having to go to component cables." He also commented, "Whoever told you that has no clue as to how copy protection and HDCP works."

He said he's going to follow up and will call back. Hopefully I will be here to take his call.

BTW, I did re-record the movie in question but have not yet had the time to watch it. When I do, I'll let everyone in this thread know what happened. I'm wondering if because I since downloaded the latest CE, maybe this issue won't recur.

More later...


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## SFNSXguy (Apr 17, 2006)

I had a Sony projector do this. After years of working fine, one day it just stopped passing HDCP signals -- something failed on its mother board i guess. No more viewing HDCP content through HDMI.

I eventually bought a new projector -- same connections, same cables -- now good to go.


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

Lord Vader said:


> FYI...
> 
> I have received more than one call from DirecTV regarding this issue, the last a lengthy voice mail (I was out when he called) from a gentleman in the engineering dept. He personally apologized for what he described as "absolutely wrong information regarding having to go to component cables." He also commented, "Whoever told you that has no clue as to how copy protection and HDCP works."
> 
> ...


Question... Do you by chance have both the HDMI and component cables hooked up to the DVR?

- Merg


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## redfiver (Nov 18, 2006)

Lord Vader said:


> I've got 3 HD DVRs connected to this TV via an Onkyo A/V receiver. From the Onkyo to my TV goes a single HDMI cable.


My Onkyo does the same thing. When I first hooked it up, it did great. Everything went into the Onkyo then one HDMI out to the TV. Then, after a while, everything started getting hinky. SOmetimes, the onkyo wouldn't even do a proper HDMI handshake, so I'd get no picture and no sound. It got worse and worse until I decided to send all of my HDMI cables directly to the TV, and then provide digital audio directly from each box to the Onkyo and re-set up everything. Now, everything works great. The Onkyos seem to develop a problem with HDCP and HDMI handshaking. Once I eliminated that part of the set up, i'm back to having great picture and great sound.

Try what others have said and move the HDMI directly to the TV and send digital audio only to the Onkyo.

As for the more complex switching between devices, I was already using a Harmony and it was easy to reprogram it to understand the new inputs.


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

The Merg said:


> Question... Do you by chance have both the HDMI and component cables hooked up to the DVR?
> 
> - Merg


No


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

Lord Vader said:


> No


Hmmm... I believe there is an issue that if you have HDMI and component cables hooked up from the DVR to TV's, it would not let you watch 1080p material until the component cables were disconnected. Not sure if the issue persists if you also had s-video or composite cables connected.

- Merg


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

Lord Vader said:


> He personally apologized for what he described as "absolutely wrong information regarding having to go to component cables." He also commented, "Whoever told you that has no clue as to how copy protection and HDCP works."


But isn't that the on screen message you got? So D* doesn't know what they are doing?


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

It would seem so, wouldn't it?


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

May be silly but you keep saying you are recording it. I guess you mean from one of the PPV channels. It is currently downloaded o my dvr and available from the guide between 124 and 125. If it's there try that one. It is 1080p.


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

I have it both ways, actually.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Did you ever try my suggestion below? It'll determine if it's just Iron Man 2 or not.



sigma1914 said:


> Try the first 5 minutes of any other 1080p PPV movie to test, also.


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

Can't remember if I did that or not. I'll give that a shot just to see.


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