# HR20-100 Hard Drive Failing?



## Throckmorton (Dec 7, 2007)

I'm pretty sure my hard drive is failing. When I play back a recorded show I get frequent pauses with pizelation and audio drop-outs making the show unwatchable. And this happens on everything.

Watching live TV is fine until I pause or rewind and try to resume.

Are there any _non destructive_ disk tests I can do to confirm this?

Or any other thoughts?


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

If you hit Select in the startup process it will take you to a utilities menu. There are non-destructive hard drive tests you can run there.

Mike


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Throckmorton said:


> I'm pretty sure my hard drive is failing. When I play back a recorded show I get frequent pauses with pizelation and audio drop-outs making the show unwatchable. And this happens on everything.
> 
> Watching live TV is fine until I pause or rewind and try to resume.
> 
> ...


Easy solution is to purchase an eSATA and put that on your HR. If you still have the same problems, you've got more than an HDD problem.

Rich


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## Throckmorton (Dec 7, 2007)

Mike Bertelson said:


> If you hit Select in the startup process it will take you to a utilities menu. There are non-destructive hard drive tests you can run there.
> 
> Mike


Okay, thanks. And I would do this on the first Welcome screen? Or would I press-and-hold while it's rebooting?



rich584 said:


> Easy solution is to purchase an eSATA and put that on your HR. If you still have the same problems, you've got more than an HDD problem.
> 
> Rich


Yeah, I'll probably give that a shot this weekend when I have some time. I have an external eSata dock I can toss a 250GB drive in just to test it out. Thanks.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Could also be a Failing or Marginal Power Supply as they tend to only last about 4 to 5 years and then start putting out less Amperage then they should and the Hard Drive lacks sufficient power to Optimally Spin Up!!!


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

Throckmorton said:


> Okay, thanks. And I would do this on the first Welcome screen? Or would I press-and-hold while it's rebooting?
> 
> Yeah, I'll probably give that a shot this weekend when I have some time. I have an external eSata dock I can toss a 250GB drive in just to test it out. Thanks.


IIRC, a 250GB drive may not work as the replacement drive needs to be at least as large as the drive it replaces...so 300GB is the smallest if that rule still applies.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

If 160 GB working (somehow) in HR20, then 250 GB should be OK.


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## Throckmorton (Dec 7, 2007)

Mike Bertelson said:


> If you hit Select in the startup process it will take you to a utilities menu. There are non-destructive hard drive tests you can run there.
> 
> Mike


When, exactly? And can it be on the remote or does it have to be on the DVR itself?


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

Throckmorton said:


> When, exactly? And can it be on the remote or does it have to be on the DVR itself?


When the "DirecTV Reciever Diagnostic Tool" displays you hit Select on the remote. That will bring up the BIST diagnostics.

Mike


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

rich584 said:


> Easy solution is to purchase an eSATA and put that on your HR. If you still have the same problems, you've got more than an HDD problem.
> 
> Rich


I think that is good advice, because while likely a HDD problem, it could be a number of other things. Going eSATA will at least either rule that out or prove it.


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## Throckmorton (Dec 7, 2007)

So I ran all the BIST HD tests and they passed. That surprised me.

I've also noticed that the dropouts, while very frequent, are not in exactly the same places if you replay the same recording multiple times. And shows that were recorded long before these symptoms began play back badly now too. So it's play back that is effected and not recording.

I'll try the eSata test later this morning and post the results.

Thanks everyone, for you suggestions and help.


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## tpayne105 (Aug 29, 2006)

I also have an HR20-100 and am having exactly the same issues. I even had Directv send me a "new" receiver..and I am having the exact same issues. They want me to have a tech out to check the cables, etc...so I am going to do that since it is free (protection plan). I am not having any issues with my other two receivers in the house...

I think it is odd..

Ideas?

Thanks


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

TomCat said:


> I think that is good advice, because while likely a HDD problem, it could be a number of other things. Going eSATA will at least either rule that out or prove it.


But isn't that an expensive way to go just to prove that you may or may not have a Bad Internal Hard Drive?


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## Throckmorton (Dec 7, 2007)

It wouldn't recognize my eSata dock so I wasn't able to isolate the problem like I had hoped.



richierich said:


> But isn't that an expensive way to go just to prove that you may or may not have a Bad Internal Hard Drive?


And I agree that it's not worth buying an external drive I don't otherwise need just to troubleshoot this further.

New HR on the way...

Fingers crossed.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Throckmorton said:


> It wouldn't recognize my eSata dock so I wasn't able to isolate the problem like I had hoped.
> 
> And I agree that it's not worth buying an external drive I don't otherwise need just to troubleshoot this further.
> 
> ...


Sounded like that might be the only solution. Let us know how it turns out.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

tpayne105 said:


> I also have an HR20-100 and am having exactly the same issues. I even had Directv send me a "new" receiver..and I am having the exact same issues. They want me to have a tech out to check the cables, etc...so I am going to do that since it is free (protection plan). I am not having any issues with my other two receivers in the house...
> 
> I think it is odd..
> 
> ...


If the problem follows the HR when you switch them with each other, the problem is with the HR. If the problem occurs with each HR that you hook up to the same set of cables, you've got something else very wrong. If you're having a truck sent out, you might have your problem fixed and come away with a couple 24s to replace the 20-100s. And you'll see a big difference in performance if that happens. Good luck, and be sure to complain about the 20-100s to the Tech.

Rich


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## retired flyer (Nov 12, 2007)

Throckmorton said:


> I'm pretty sure my hard drive is failing. When I play back a recorded show I get frequent pauses with pizelation and audio drop-outs making the show unwatchable. And this happens on everything.
> 
> Watching live TV is fine until I pause or rewind and try to resume.
> 
> ...


I have the HR 20-700 and have had the same problems. I've had to reset the box every day or 2 for the last 2-3 weeks. Only on weekdays as they are doing sat. and transponder moving. When I reset , I do 2 resets in the space of 30 min. and it fixes the problems. They should be finished screwing around with the sats soon and these problems will disappear hopefully.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

I'm starting to see more posts these days with HR20 units failing or having significant issues.

The HR20 series was introduced the summer of 2006, so they're 4 1/2 years or so in the field. 

Perhaps we're starting to see signs of the aging of that series. I had two HR20-700's that were both replaced with newer units over the past year - they were workhorses when I had them.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

That's sad and annoying facts, if a lifetime of such device built by selected HW components for less then 5 years; the DVR's features and functioning are adequate to current signals and programming now and for a few year forward.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

P Smith said:


> That's sad and annoying facts, if a lifetime of such device built by selected HW components for less then 5 years; the DVR's features and functioning are adequate to current signals and programming now and for a few year forward.


Those were the very first HD DVR units....operating 24X7.

Failure in 5 years is not either surprising or unique among electrical components. That's not to say its the norm, but its not all that shocking either.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

I'm shocked actually - my TV tubes, VCR and DVD continue works , some for more then 15 years.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

P Smith said:


> I'm shocked actually - my TV tubes, VCR and DVD continue works , some for more then 15 years.


Then I guess you haven't followed the thousands of cases of power supply failures, hard disk failures, and other components not lasting 5 years in numerous hardware devices, inlcuding both PCs and DVRs.

Do a google on DVR failure, and watch the million plus posts on that topic come up. No shock.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

So, you want to indulge bad decisions of designers and manufacturers or component's manufacturers like those who made millions of bad electrolytic capacitors or Li-Ion batteries? WHY CUSTOMERS SHOULD PAY FOR THE ERRORS ?


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

P Smith said:


> So, you want to indulge bad decisions of designers and manufacturers or component's manufacturers like those who made millions of bad electrolytic capacitors or Li-Ion batteries? WHY CUSTOMERS SHOULD PAY FOR THE ERRORS ?


No one is justifying anything... component costs are minimized to offer competitive prices...unless folks want to pay $3000 for an HD DVR.

The average washing machine lasts 5 years today...

http://www.blurtit.com/q772816.html

The average desktop PC - 2 1/2 to 5 years.

http://compreviews.about.com/od/general/a/UpgradeReplace.htm

Being shocked about an electronic device with a hard drive in it lasting 5 years on average that runs constantly 24 X 7 seems naive.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

I've been server admin and run those drives ( many of them) 24/7 during 7+ years and replace them not by issues but by request to increase space. I know the prices and you're totally off base when makeup 10x price for DVR with better components.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

P Smith said:


> I've been server admin and run those drives ( many of them) 24/7 during 7+ years and replace them not by issues but by request to increase space. I know the prices and you're totally off base when makeup 10x price for DVR with better components.


I'll have to introduce you to our network services guys...they see laptops, cell phones, and other electrical components from brand name vendors croak all the time - and not cheap equipment either.

10X might be a stretch, but 6X to 8X would not. I'm amazed what high end components can cost, having built a number of PCs, and HD DVRs are not all that different inside.

If you know the prices....you'd know that high end power supplies, for example, can cost 3-4X what is commonly used in mass-produced equipment. Likewise, tuners, drives, and other components fall into the same category. Now add markup, advertising, distribution, shipping, taxes, and other things most folks don't see buried in pricing...and you get up to 6-7X real easily in a retail device.

The reason HD DVRs cost what they do for we consumers is that they are both mass produced and subsidized by the service provider. We know, for example, that if you violate the warranty and have to return a unit, its already gonna cost you double (the actual cost of manufacture with current parts inside) what most folks pay for the right out of the gate - and that's not even starting to address any component improvements.

So going full circle now to the OP....

All it takes is one of those components, a drive, a power supply, a network adapter, a CPU, or other element going haywire, the the HD DVR has problems preforming as designed. IF the HDD passes, then obviously something else is amuck.


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## mbrown520 (Jun 19, 2007)

Count me in the group that this has started happening too as well. About a week ago it started out that the channels were wrong..206 was MSG network etc, so I reset..that fixed the channel issue but now I ahve the very same hard drive problems as described by others...is it possible that its a software error..I find it hard to believe that we are having the issues at the same time and its not somehow linked to the software.


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

P Smith said:


> I've been server admin and run those drives ( many of them) 24/7 during 7+ years and replace them not by issues but by request to increase space. I know the prices and you're totally off base when makeup 10x price for DVR with better components.


I dont know where you get your "magic" drives from, but we rarely have system drives in servers that last 7+ years....we replace drives out of RAID arrays on a nearly weekly basis...


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Then I guess you haven't followed the thousands of cases of power supply failures, hard disk failures, and other components not lasting 5 years in numerous hardware devices, inlcuding both PCs and DVRs.
> 
> Do a google on DVR failure, and watch the million plus posts on that topic come up. No shock.


Yes, the Average Life of a Power Sypply Unit is 5 years and I have one going out on a Slingbox and it is only 2 years old and there are lots and lots of posts about these cheap dying power supply units and the same is true with DVRs.

They try to build them with a Low Price Point and one of the thing that suffers is the amount of money spent on the Power Supply Unit.


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## tpayne105 (Aug 29, 2006)

I am having a truck sent out Wed afternoon. I am hoping for a new receiver...although I do like the HR20-100 since it has the built in TV-Tuner. My older HDTV does not have that but I will live....


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

tpayne105 said:


> I am having a truck sent out Wed afternoon. I am hoping for a new receiver...although I do like the HR20-100 since it has the built in TV-Tuner. My older HDTV does not have that but I will live....


I didn't have a truck roll, but my HR21-200 was replaced with an HR21-100. (I already had an AM21 for OTA with the prior receiver). You might even get a choice, and if you end up with a non-OTA receiver, call D* and have them send you an AM21, which, if you whine enough, should be free.


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

richierich said:


> But isn't that an expensive way to go just to prove that you may or may not have a Bad Internal Hard Drive?


It would indeed be an expensive way "just to prove" something, I agree. But it seems as if this was a choice already made regardless of it also being a convenient way to do that; so in that case, it makes perfect sense.


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

richierich said:


> Could also be a Failing or Marginal Power Supply as they tend to only last about 4 to 5 years and then start putting out less Amperage then they should and the Hard Drive lacks sufficient power to Optimally Spin Up!!!


Again, that would be an unusual failure scenario. A power supply either fails catastrophically (not a gradual event), or the filter caps dry out and AC ripple gets into the DC power, which is never good when microprocessors are involved.

Unless the voltage regulator fails (and that can also be pretty dramatic), the voltages stay (and since the load stays the same, also the current stays) pretty much the same.

IOW, it would be very rare for a PS to fail in a manner that would not allow the HDD to spin up "Optimally". If a PS fails, there are probably bigger problems to worry about.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

TomCat said:


> Again, that would be an unusual failure scenario. A power supply either fails catastrophically (not a gradual event), or the filter caps dry out and AC ripple gets into the DC power, which is never good when microprocessors are involved.
> 
> Unless the voltage regulator fails (and that can also be pretty dramatic), the voltages stay (and since the load stays the same, also the current stays) pretty much the same.
> 
> IOW, it would be very rare for a PS to fail in a manner that would not allow the HDD to spin up "Optimally". If a PS fails, there are probably bigger problems to worry about.


Yes sir, I would agree with that.

In the two cases where I've seen power supplies actually "go"....you can also smell them die, if you know what I mean.

Also in both cases, there was about 2 minutes of strange electronic equipment behavior, and then *pow* - no power at all.


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

CCarncross said:


> I dont know where you get your "magic" drives from, but we rarely have system drives in servers that last 7+ years....we replace drives out of RAID arrays on a nearly weekly basis...


That seems about on par to me. I manage a set of media servers that have RAID storage. Since 2003 I have had to replace those 80 drives on an average of one about every three weeks. And that doesn't include a wholesale replacement of all 80 due to a recall in 2005.

Come to think of it, I think its always the same drive that fails.....hmmmm

(just kidding).

Actually, In think Google or WD or Seagate or someone did a study, and if you discount infant mortality (if the drive survives the first 3 months or so) the chance of a drive failing is 8% a year, compounded, meaning that a 4-year old drive has a 40% chance of failing in the fifth year, a 48% chance in the sixth, and so on. 7 years is like 100 in dog years for a HDD.


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## tpayne105 (Aug 29, 2006)

hasan said:


> I didn't have a truck roll, but my HR21-200 was replaced with an HR21-100. (I already had an AM21 for OTA with the prior receiver). You might even get a choice, and if you end up with a non-OTA receiver, call D* and have them send you an AM21, which, if you whine enough, should be free.


Actually this is the 2nd HR20-100....a replacement for my original receiver....same issue....I told them it isn't necessary to have a tuner, although it would be nice.


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## tpayne105 (Aug 29, 2006)

tech came out today and simply replaced the HR20-100 with the HR24-500...so far so good....i know I cant get OTA but oh well...life will go on if this continues to work well...

will update later


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

tpayne105 said:


> tech came out today and simply replaced the HR20-100 with the HR24-500...so far so good....i know I cant get OTA but oh well...life will go on if this continues to work well...
> 
> will update later


Be glad you got a truck to roll. You've just exchanged one of the worst HRs for a good one. No need for anyone to post about how much they love their 20-100s, I'm not gonna change my mind. :lol:

Rich


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

tpayne105 said:


> tech came out today and simply replaced the HR20-100 with the HR24-500...so far so good....i know I cant get OTA but oh well...life will go on if this continues to work well...
> 
> will update later


IF you still want OTA just order an AM-21, they actually work pretty well and give you the same functionality you had in your HR-20


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

tpayne105 said:


> tech came out today and simply replaced the HR20-100 with the HR24-500...so far so good....i know I cant get OTA but oh well...life will go on if this continues to work well...
> 
> will update later


You could always buy an AM21 OTA tuner to hook up to your HR24-500.


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## Throckmorton (Dec 7, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Sounded like that might be the only solution. Let us know how it turns out.


Wow, they over-night them now. An HR20-*700* was sitting outside Tuesday evening. Finally hooked it up and activated it Thursday. Everything worked great and this box is _fast_ compared to the HR20-100 it replaced and the two HR21s I have in the front room. Nice.

But the drive is noisy. Sometimes it sounds like it's perking coffee. Is this a problem with the drive itself or intrinsic to the HR20-100s? It's on firmware x40c I believe. I tried to force a dl but it just reloaded x40c.

Thanks and Merry Christmas to all.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Merry Christmas and Glad you got it so Fast!!!


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

Throckmorton said:


> ...But the drive is noisy. Sometimes it sounds like it's perking coffee. Is this a problem with the drive itself or intrinsic to the HR20-100s?...


Intrinsic to...the HDD, not necessarily the DVR model. I have yet to have a DVR with a noisy HDD (including my '-100), but you are certainly not the first to experience this


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

TomCat said:


> Intrinsic to...the HDD, not necessarily the DVR model. I have yet to have a DVR with a noisy HDD (including my '-100), but you are certainly not the first to experience this


That is why I Own my HR2X DVRs and then I Replace the Internal Drive with a 2 TB Western Digital WD20EADS and it is Quiet and I have plenty of hard drive capacity for recording.


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## Throckmorton (Dec 7, 2007)

Oops, I misspoke. It's the new HR20-700 with the noisy hard drive, not the HR20-100 I returned.

But it's good to hear it's most likely the drive itself. NewEgg, here I come.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Throckmorton said:


> Oops, I misspoke. It's the new HR20-700 with the noisy hard drive, not the HR20-100 I returned.
> 
> But it's good to hear it's most likely the drive itself. NewEgg, here I come.


Inside that 700 is a Seagate drive. They became noisy just after the DLB NR. If you're gonna get a new HDD, get a WD EADS or EVDS. They are much quieter. Not all Seagate drives were affected in that way by that NR, I have some that are still quiet.

Rich


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Throckmorton said:


> Oops, I misspoke. It's the new HR20-700 with the noisy hard drive, not the HR20-100 I returned.
> 
> But it's good to hear it's most likely the drive itself. NewEgg, here I come.


Get a WD20EADS and Be Done With It!!!


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

richierich said:


> Get a WD20EADS and Be Done With It!!!


My EVDS HDDs have calmed down and aren't rumbling anymore. Still, I think I prefer the EADS drives too.

Rich


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## Throckmorton (Dec 7, 2007)

Do they make them <1TB?

I'm hoping to go with ~640GB and all I can find is AARS, AALS and AAKS drives on NewEgg.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Throckmorton said:


> Do they make them <1TB?
> 
> I'm hoping to go with ~640GB and all I can find is AARS, AALS and AAKS drives on NewEgg.


Check www.wd.com


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Throckmorton said:


> Do they make them <1TB?
> 
> I'm hoping to go with ~640GB and all I can find is AARS, AALS and AAKS drives on NewEgg.


Why would you want to go with anything less than a 1 TB Drive? You can always use the Extra Recording Capacity unless you just don't record much.


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## Ramalama (May 2, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I'm starting to see more posts these days with HR20 units failing or having significant issues.
> 
> The HR20 series was introduced the summer of 2006, so they're 4 1/2 years or so in the field.
> 
> Perhaps we're starting to see signs of the aging of that series. I had two HR20-700's that were both replaced with newer units over the past year - they were workhorses when I had them.


I have an HR20-700 with the same problem as the OP. Not only that, I cannot stream a HD on demand movie even with a 16 Mbps download speed without getting a buffer error. I have no clue how these drives are constructed but don't all HDDs have a cache or read ahead buffer? Mine seems to be unable to write out blocks and read them back at the same time. Maybe a HDD replacement would be the solution.

But if anyone wants to speculate, why would a bad drive cause a tuner to drop out? I get a tuner drop out at least once a week and that results in a lot of black recordings. I have gotten to the point that if I really want to record something and will not be home, I will actually tune to the channel first, then set up the recording and shut down the receiver and tv. I used to miss a LOT of NASCAR relying on those damn tuners to actually tune.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Ramalama said:


> But if anyone wants to speculate, why would a bad drive cause a tuner to drop out? I get a tuner drop out at least once a week and that results in a lot of black recordings. I have gotten to the point that if I really want to record something and will not be home, I will actually tune to the channel first, then set up the recording and shut down the receiver and tv. I used to miss a LOT of NASCAR relying on those damn tuners to actually tune.


Older DVRs such as the HR20 Series have problems associated with Aging such as Hard Drive Problems, Marginal or Failing Power Supply units with aging Capacitors, Failing or Marginal Tuners which result in a Black or Blank Recording because it Failed to Tune Correctly to a Series Link Request for a Channel that it needs to Record, etc.

Alot of these Problems I believe are the Cause of a Failing or Marginal Power Supply unit which can mimic hard drive problems, can cause CPU Problems and Tuner Problems.

Just My Opinion and they can be replaced relatively cheaply and alot cheaper than replacing the hard drive and you still may experience the same problems.


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

Throckmorton said:


> Do they make them <1TB?
> 
> I'm hoping to go with ~640GB and all I can find is AARS, AALS and AAKS drives on NewEgg.


With the difference in cost, why wouldn't you just bump up to the 1TB?

- Merg


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

The Merg said:


> With the difference in cost, why wouldn't you just bump up to the 1TB?
> 
> - Merg


Yes, you can get it for around $68. And the WD10EADS is a Proven Drive in a Directv DVR as I have Owned several of them.

http://www.serversupply.com/products/part_search/pid_lookup.asp?pid=116928


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## Throckmorton (Dec 7, 2007)

Yeah, okay. The 1TB is probably the way to go.

The HR20 is my third of three DVRs and is only a backup of the other two for when recording 4 things at once is simply not enough. I just don't really need the space so I figured I'd save a few bux and go with 500GB-640GB.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Ramalama said:


> I have an HR20-700 with the same problem as the OP. Not only that, I cannot stream a HD on demand movie even with a 16 Mbps download speed without getting a buffer error. I have no clue how these drives are constructed but don't all HDDs have a cache or read ahead buffer? Mine seems to be unable to write out blocks and read them back at the same time. Maybe a HDD replacement would be the solution.


After reading the rest of your post, I'd agree.



> But if anyone wants to speculate, why would a bad drive cause a tuner to drop out? I get a tuner drop out at least once a week and that results in a lot of black recordings.


It became "fashionable" to blame the hard drives a while ago. I don't see what an HDD could possibly have to do with tuner dropouts. If you get lockups (where you have to pull the plug to reboot) or a constantly freezing picture, those are symptomatic of a failing (rapidly) HDD or external device. I don't usually lose HDDs and I've got a lot of HRs.

I've had a couple of HRs that always had 771s on one tuner (before SWM) and I was using external HDDs on them and they did the same thing when I took the externals off and used the internal drive.



> I have gotten to the point that if I really want to record something and will not be home, I will actually tune to the channel first, then set up the recording and shut down the receiver and tv. I used to miss a LOT of NASCAR relying on those damn tuners to actually tune.


I'm gonna send you a PM.

Rich


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## Ramalama (May 2, 2007)

just to update the thread - I spent the afternoon running the system diagnostics on the drive. It has not yet finished the fourth test, but it is nearly at 80% without an error. I am assuming this is the equivalent of chkdsk in Windows=speak. I think my first move will be to get a SWM and dump the BBCs. We will see what that can do. Thanks for the PM Rich, will follow up on that end also. 

I wish I know more about what the test tests for LOL.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Ramalama said:


> just to update the thread - I spent the afternoon running the system diagnostics on the drive. It has not yet finished the fourth test, but it is nearly at 80% without an error. I am assuming this is the equivalent of chkdsk in Windows=speak. I think my first move will be to get a SWM and dump the BBCs. We will see what that can do. Thanks for the PM Rich, will follow up on that end also.
> 
> *I wish I know more about what the test tests for* LOL.


That's why I'm pushing and pushing you guys with such requests to run Victoria or MHDD on it: to obtain meaningful info. Sad, not everyone has the ability to open a cover to connect two cable to internal HDD for that tests. Externals [eSATA] drives are easy...


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

Ramalama said:


> I have an HR20-700 with the same problem as the OP. Not only that, I cannot stream a HD on demand movie even with a 16 Mbps download speed without getting a buffer error. I have no clue how these drives are constructed but don't all HDDs have a cache or read ahead buffer? Mine seems to be unable to write out blocks and read them back at the same time. Maybe a HDD replacement would be the solution.


This is very likely a different issue than a HDD problem. HDDs can typically handle the throughput of 12 simultaneous compressed HD streams, and a DVR uses no more than 4. I would suspect a LAN issue or ISP issue. Run speedtest as a start. Or, it could be a different DVR issue as well.


> ....But if anyone wants to speculate, why would a bad drive cause a tuner to drop out?...


Sound reasoning; it won't.

In my experience, black recordings are an issue with the switch in the LNB not switching properly, which can be a bad switch, cables too long, increased loop resistance due to shield integrity issues (or connectors) on the cables, or a STB issue.

Also, I have found that sometimes the HD DVR+ will manifest as a black recording, yet attempting to wind through or restart the black recording eventually results in perfect playback, which points to a lack of robustness in the database (it loses track of the recorded audio stream, the video stream, or other related streams). So for that reason I would try to play back black recordings a number of times and in different ways (you have nothing to lose and everything to gain).

So bottom line, a HDD replacement may fix neither issue.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

TomCat said:


> This is very likely a different issue than a HDD problem. HDDs can typically handle the throughput of 12 simultaneous compressed HD streams, and a DVR uses no more than 4. I would suspect a LAN issue or ISP issue. Run speedtest as a start. Or, it could be a different DVR issue as well.
> Sound reasoning; it won't.
> 
> In my experience, black recordings are an issue with the switch in the LNB not switching properly, which can be a bad switch, cables too long, increased loop resistance due to shield integrity issues (or connectors) on the cables, or a STB issue.
> ...


You're right, it's got nothing to do with the much maligned HDD. It's either the HR or something in his system. At least in my experience.

Rich


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## esayre (Aug 26, 2006)

I am having the exact same problem as the OP. I called in two days ago and after "troubleshooting" the problem with the CSR (changing Native Resolution setting and menu scrolling (?)) She determined that if the problem returned that I would either have to pay for a service call or sign up for the protection program. 

Obviously, I don't want to pay them for the honor of replacing the DVR they own. 

What should be my next step?


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

esayre said:


> I am having the exact same problem as the OP. I called in two days ago and after "troubleshooting" the problem with the CSR (changing Native Resolution setting and menu scrolling (?)) She determined that if the problem returned that I would either have to pay for a service call or sign up for the protection program.
> 
> Obviously, I don't want to pay them for the honor of replacing the DVR they own.
> 
> What should be my next step?


You should be able to have one FedEx'ed to you. Try another CSR. And consider joining the PP. Then you'd get the truck to roll without cost and probably get a 24 in exchange for your defective HR.

What you'll end up with, probably, if you get one sent to you is an older model that probably will not work correctly.

Or you could bite the bullet, pay for the truck roll and you'll probably end up with a 24.

Rich


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

esayre said:


> I am having the exact same problem as the OP. I called in two days ago and after "troubleshooting" the problem with the CSR (changing Native Resolution setting and menu scrolling (?)) She determined that if the problem returned that I would either have to pay for a service call or sign up for the protection program.
> 
> Obviously, I don't want to pay them for the honor of replacing the DVR they own.
> 
> What should be my next step?


First of all, a rhetorical question: How on God's green earth can a video stuttering issue be due to a menu setting? Why would DTV engineers give customers the handle to screw up the DVR? That one is not rhetorical, and the obvious answer is that they would never do this. If you can adjust it, it will not break the DVR, period. No product designer worth their salt puts a self-destruct button where the user has access to it, so changing NR and scrolling is a complete misdirect, and a lame one at that.

This is smoking-gun evidence that this so-called CSR has no technical ability whatsoever yet has the gall to masquerade as such. It would not be that surprising if they asked you to click your heels together 3 times. You were dealing with an idiot. My advice? Don't do that. If you are holding 5 cards of different suits and denominations, _then draw 4_. Use a different CSR, for one thing.

But that underlines a problem, which is that few are equipped to help you in the way you need. That means that it helps for you to do as much of the grunt work here as you can. Determine if it is a reception issue first, by posting your numbers here (be thorough, all numbers for all sats is helpful). And while you are in the process, whip out that fancy iPhone and take a snapshot of each page, and do it again if you do a realignment. That way you have a borderline reference to refer to for future problems.

Does it happen just on HD channels? Just on OTA channels? Just on recordings? Just live? (after you change channels and before hitting pause or rewind). Just on one sat? One polarity? Have you done a visual inspection of what you can access? Tightened connectors (not a likely fix, however).

You can also replace the HDD or add an eSATA drive, which other than the obvious benefit of giving you 4 times the storage, can either pinpoint or eliminate the problem if it is the HDD. You can even do this on a temp basis with any old (but modern) working HDD lying around just to test the theory.

While you have the hood up, look for capacitors that are leaking, bulging, or bowed on the top (especially in the power supply).

IOW, gather as much info narrowing down the problem as you can, yourself. And we will gladly help you with that as much as we can.


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## esayre (Aug 26, 2006)

TomCat said:


> First of all, a rhetorical question: How on God's green earth can a video stuttering issue be due to a menu setting? Why would DTV engineers give customers the handle to screw up the DVR? That one is not rhetorical, and the obvious answer is that they would never do this. If you can adjust it, it will not break the DVR, period. No product designer worth their salt puts a self-destruct button where the user has access to it, so changing NR and scrolling is a complete misdirect, and a lame one at that.
> 
> This is smoking-gun evidence that this so-called CSR has no technical ability whatsoever yet has the gall to masquerade as such. It would not be that surprising if they asked you to click your heels together 3 times. You were dealing with an idiot. My advice? Don't do that. If you are holding 5 cards of different suits and denominations, _then draw 4_. Use a different CSR, for one thing.
> 
> ...


Seems to happen on playback - I don't watch a lot of live TV on this receiver.

Don't think it's a reception or HDD issue as I can clear it up with a restart and then replay the same program and have no stuttering.

It happens with recordings that are both OTA and Sat HD.

EDIT: Called again and this CSR wanted me to do a full reset. I decided I didn't want to do that as again I don't think it's a bad drive. I have also run the HDD tests from the Diagnostic Menu and they passed.


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

Actually, a reset is a good call, and always a good first step.

Which brings up another question: Does this problem develop and then is ameliorated, at least for a few days, by a reset? Only to return again?

FWIW, I had that issue, and when I went to replace the HDD I noticed that the filter caps in the PS were bowed, meaning dirty DC power meaning an unhappy microprocessor meaning that was probably why video was stuttering. And the DVR manifested the same problems with a different HDD, so I had them do a swap, and the supposed "bad" HDD is working perfectly still today on that newer DVR.


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## esayre (Aug 26, 2006)

TomCat said:


> Actually, a reset is a good call, and always a good first step.
> 
> Which brings up another question: Does this problem develop and then is ameliorated, at least for a few days, by a reset? Only to return again?
> 
> FWIW, I had that issue, and when I went to replace the HDD I noticed that the filter caps in the PS were bowed, meaning dirty DC power meaning an unhappy microprocessor meaning that was probably why video was stuttering. And the DVR manifested the same problems with a different HDD, so I had them do a swap, and the supposed "bad" HDD is working perfectly still today on that newer DVR.


It's ok after a reset for about 15 minutes and then returns again. I would prefer not to lose season passes and recording. But if that's the best option I will do it.


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