# RE: Superstations



## levibluewa (Aug 13, 2005)

Just noticed that if you live in Canada and have Bell you can get WPIX, WSBK, and KTLA in HD. Hummmmm!!!!


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## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

Yes, what is the hmmmm? First, different rules in Canada, you can't compare what Bell does to what US providers can do. Second, Dish has little spectrum/transponder space to deal with, thus the lack of some sporting events in HD.


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## levibluewa (Aug 13, 2005)

Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmm!


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## runner861 (Mar 20, 2010)

I've wondered for a long time why the superstation pack isn't offered in hd. There's been a lot of speculation on the board as to why, but no real solid reason. If I'm not mistaken, WWOR is offered in hd in the superstation pack, but only to those who are within the NY spotbeam. I'm not aware of any legal barrier to offering the superstation pack in hd.


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## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

There are rules that govern HD that did not govern SD. As an example, you can't give the West Coast any distant channels from the East Coast in HD, but you can in SD. 

WWOR in the superstation pack is ONLY available in HD on the East Coast, and then only if you are withing the spotbeam coverage as you mention. Very likely that is keeping within the rules.
And as I posted, even if they can, would Dish use the space for those to be in HD when they don't have much room to deal with?


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## renegade (Jul 28, 2011)

tampa8 said:


> Dish has little spectrum/transponder space to deal with, thus the lack of some sporting events in HD.


... They could have all the transponder space they need if they'd eliminate some of the more useless channels that are out there ...

Barbie Channel? Seriously?

--

Get the hell off my lawn!


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## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

Not how it works at all. That is a paying channel, that in effect helps keep our bill less than it otherwise would be. Take all those away and your bill most definately goes up. Even at that, again, I am not so sure Dish can give everyone the HD version, their use may be predicated on SD.


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## levibluewa (Aug 13, 2005)

I've never read that DISH canNOT provide the HD version as superstations. 5 channels that are spotbeamed in HD. If they were all mpeg4 HD conus vs. the 5 spotbeams how much more tp space would be taken up.


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## runner861 (Mar 20, 2010)

levibluewa said:


> I've never read that DISH canNOT provide the HD version as superstations. 5 channels that are spotbeamed in HD. If they were all mpeg4 HD conus vs. the 5 spotbeams how much more tp space would be taken up.


I am also unaware of any law that prevents Dish from providing the superstations in HD. And if they were placed on conus, the spotbeams in those markets would be freed up for other stations.


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

renegade said:


> ... They could have all the transponder space they need if they'd eliminate some of the more useless channels that are out there ...
> 
> Barbie Channel? Seriously?
> 
> ...


What's on Barbie channel anyway?


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## FTA Michael (Jul 21, 2002)

Here's my reasoned guess:

1) I deduce that Dish can't really promote the superstations. 
- Superstations must be profitable to Dish, or it wouldn't offer them.
- Superstations represent a rare, sustainable advantage over DirecTV's lineup.
- Yet you never hear advertising about them.
- The only reason Dish wouldn't promote a profitable product is that it can't. QED.
(Why? I assume that superstations are self-limiting; if they ever became really popular, local stations would syndex them away. At their current penetration %, they're below most locals' radar. Or there may be another reason, but it's an observed fact that Dish does not, and therefore cannot, promote the superstations.)

2) Five CONUS HD slots would take up a lot of room. Dish would rather use CONUS HD slots for channels it can promote.

3) Dish figures it wouldn't bring in enough subscriber fees from HD superstations to justify the room. OR Dish worries that HD superstations would make them attractive enough for the locals to notice them and syndex away both the SD and HD versions.

Although I use the Never word sparingly (see: MLB Network), given that Dish hasn't offered HD superstations by now, it's not wise to expect Dish to add them in the future. Too bad.


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## nmetro (Jul 11, 2006)

FYI. KWGN is offered in the Denver spotbeam in HD; it is still classified as a Superstation. It may be also available in Colorado Springs and in Cheyenne on their spotbeams as well.

By the way, why do I get the Superstations? Beacuse I like watching news from New York once in a while. Programming wise, KWGN, WPIX and KTLA offer the same programming (beyond the CW) like movies and syndicated shows. Though, WPIX offers specials which are New York specific. WSBK, now an independent does offer a reasonable choice of movies.

As for why not in HD, the previous post provides the logical reason. Personally, I am surprised that DISH still offers them, especially after the digital conversion. So, having them in SD is better than not having them at all. I wish, though, that they showed the channels in letterbox, instead of "center cut".


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## runner861 (Mar 20, 2010)

FTA Michael said:


> Here's my reasoned guess:
> 
> 1) I deduce that Dish can't really promote the superstations.
> - Superstations must be profitable to Dish, or it wouldn't offer them.
> ...


I generally agree with what you say. However, I will note that some superstations are already blocked in some markets. I have not researched why the stations are blocked, but it may be syndicated exclusivity.

Second, I have not researched whether grandfathered status applies to subscribers of superstations.


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## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

levibluewa said:


> I've never read that DISH canNOT provide the HD version as superstations.


I can only get WWOR as a superstation in HD and I am in the spotbeam.



nmetro said:


> FYI. KWGN is offered in the Denver spotbeam in HD; it is still classified as a Superstation.


That is an indication that there is some restriction. Two of us get a Superstation in HD only because we are in the spotbeam. It is very possible it has to do with not providing HD channels from the East to the West even though they are not technically distants. Or, the Superstation agreement does not cover HD, only SD which as has been demonstrated various times is not the same thing. (See Disney, See distants)


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## runner861 (Mar 20, 2010)

So is KWGN available in HD to anyone within the Denver spotbeam who has the superstation pack, even those who are outside of the Denver market? If so, then that is the same situation as with WWOR. I am also wondering if KTLA is available in HD to those with the superstation pack and outside the Los Angeles market.


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## kucharsk (Sep 20, 2006)

I have the superstation package and live in the Denver Metro area but do *not* receive KWGN in HD; to receive KWGN in HD I'd need to subscribe to the locals package which I don't.

I'm grateful for the SD superstations but would really, *really* like to receive KTLA in HD.

As far as I know the superstation package gets you only the SD channels, no matter _where_ you're located.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

kucharsk said:


> I have the superstation package and live in the Denver Metro area but do *not* receive KWGN in HD; to receive KWGN in HD I'd need to subscribe to the locals package which I don't.


I'm surprised that you get it in SD without subscribing to your market's locals. Within their own local market, KWGN is not a superstation and DISH should not be delivering it to you without delivering the rest of your market's locals.


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## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

kucharsk said:


> As far as I know the superstation package gets you only the SD channels, no matter _where_ you're located.


You are incorrect, as I stated. I do not get NY locals, not in that DMA, I DO get WWOR in HD as part of the superstations. This has been well discussed at the other site. (Maybe here too not sure)


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## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

Being Grandfathered explains having the package without locals. It is something to think about, that they can give him a local channel and not the others. Satellite providers must provide all the locals (that meet the requirements) if they offer one. This sort of circumvents that. Dish does provide them, just not to kucharsk... lol


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

runner861 said:


> I generally agree with what you say. However, I will note that some superstations are already blocked in some markets. I have not researched why the stations are blocked, but it may be syndicated exclusivity.
> 
> Second, I have not researched whether grandfathered status applies to subscribers of superstations.


Back in 1999 I had all of the Superstations. One day in 2007 ii received a letter from Dish saying KBCW ordered to remove KTLA. A few months later the rest were gone. Something about syntax.


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## Pete K. (Apr 23, 2002)

Syndex: syndication exclusivity. Syntax is the is the study of the principles and rules for constructing phrases and sentences in natural languages.


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## kucharsk (Sep 20, 2006)

Just to clarify:

I've subscribed to the Superstation package since the first day I got DISH (it was, in fact, the reason I *chose* DISH) and have always received KWGN in with the others.

I have never subscribed to locals and so have never received KWGN or any of the other superstations in HD.

Since I get KWGN just fine OTA, I wouldn't care if it disappeared on DISH, but I suspect Tribune allows the SD feed as part of their superstation agreement.


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

kucharsk said:


> Just to clarify:
> 
> I've subscribed to the Superstation package since the first day I got DISH (it was, in fact, the reason I *chose* DISH) and have always received KWGN in with the others.
> 
> ...


There is no "superrstation agreement' no agreement is necessary to carrya superstation.


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## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

There is an agreement needed with the local, though not that I am aware of the Superstation. Before Dish can offer it the local must allow it, and they do not always do so.


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

Kucharsk's post referenced an agreement with Tribune presumably as the superstation. I simply pointed out that ni such agreeement exists.


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## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

Geronimo said:


> Kucharsk's post referenced an agreement with Tribune presumably as the superstation. I simply pointed out that ni such agreeement exists.


And I agreed with that in my post, and clarified where there is an agreement.


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

tampa8 said:


> And I agreed with that in my post, and clarified where there is an agreement.


I must have misunderstood. My apologies.


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## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

Geronimo said:


> I must have misunderstood. My apologies.


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