# Sunday Ticket rip-off - what to do?



## cdharris (Jan 21, 2004)

I have been a DirecTV and Sunday Ticket subscriber for 6 years. I got ST so I could watch the Cowboys because we do not have a local Fox station. The nearest Fox station is 110 miles away and they have only a very weak UHF translator in this area. Even on local cable (which I cannot get) Fox comes in very poorly, with ghosts and bad color. I know D* advertises ST as being for "out of market" games, but when I first got D* and ST, I was assured that I would be able to receive the Cowboy games, and I always have until now. Last year, I bought a HD TV and receiver so I could watch the games in HD, even though there is no HD OTA at all in our area. Now, as ST is blacking out the games being broadcast on the Fox translator station and the local CBS station, I assume I will not be able to receive any of the Cowboy games this year on ST, much less in HD. 

My sister lives in Dallas. How hard would it be to tell D* that I am moving and just use her address for my service? Would they insist that I connect by telephone? All the local stations in her area are O & O and I should be able to get the HD networks (as they become available) even if I can't get Cowboy games on ST. Thanks.


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## NNDman (Aug 15, 2004)

I too am angry about the blackouts the Sunday Ticket is now imposing. I've been a Sunday Ticket subscriber since it started and never had games that my local stations were broadcasting blacked out until today. What annoys me is that all the Sunday Ticket games are in the 700s. Now if I want to switch I have to punch in the local channel number. Maybe this is being petty but I'd much rather cruise through the 700s wtih the up-down buttond instead of having to punch in the numbers for my locals!


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## esteg (Aug 27, 2003)

Tried to wach Lions?Bears got (not avilable) no local station had any football , my TWO locals ABC ,car racing,& NBC,Golf, DTV said i had a local showing the game (i didn't) i pressed the issue ,she replied its the NFL that determines the blackout areas.
i had no local station carrying the game ,I live 400 miles plus north of Chicago i should be out of local market area and i am even farther from Detroit. Where does one go for answers? should i try DTV or the NFL ,maybe try for my money back


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## Guest (Sep 12, 2004)

Make a favorites list for easier navigation.

NFL and Networks decide whats blacked out, not DTV, direct your anger toward them. If neither of your locals were broadcasting the game, you should be asking them why. I assume its done by the nielson stuff, and if thats changed to now cover you thats why the games that are theoretically on locals are now blacked out.


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## esteg (Aug 27, 2003)

What is a good phone #,email address for the NFL? They don't list email address on line.
any help is always appericated


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## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

A little bit of searching pulled us some mailing addresses which I placed into this [thread=32702]sticky thread[/thread]. Snail mail is often the best. I'm not sure if writing the individual teams will help.

Of course, if I wanted to be a real pain, I would send the mail with a return receipt requested. It costs more, but then you want to make the point that you aren't getting the value out the $219 you spent for the package.


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## starrsrg (May 20, 2004)

Well today has revealed just how little Directv cares about our business. After being happy subscribers for over 3 years, we come to realize that our Sunday ticket subscription isn't worth a hill of beans. Our local channels are not yet provided by Directv and we will need to add a separate dish to receive them when they are available. Our local fox affiliate is so behind the times that they aren't broadcasting a HD feed. I was really looking forward to the 100 games in HD but now I think it will be more like 25. It is completely rediculous to see NFL games blacked out in Boise Idaho. I have always known the networks to be greedy and prohibit satellite customers from receiving their money's worth. However, the fact that Directv never mentioned the new blackout rules makes it even worse. Directv is also a greedy company, and I will no longer recommend them to anybody.


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## Guest (Sep 12, 2004)

"NFL SUNDAY TICKET™ consists of regular season Sunday games broadcast at 1 pm and 4 pm EST. However, due to league and network requirements, games broadcast by your local FOX or CBS station will not be available on NFL SUNDAY TICKET™. If your game is not available in the 700-719 channel range, simply switch over to your local FOX or CBS station."

I don't see anything new there. Like I said, you should be complaining to your affiliates, not DTV. If you dont have a local affiliate, but one close enough or in your neilsen area thingamabob that you just dont have access to, well thats just a crappy situation and I'm sorry to hear about it. Stuff like that sucks, but like I said, its not DirecTV's fault.


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## starrsrg (May 20, 2004)

Stevo said:


> "NFL SUNDAY TICKET™ consists of regular season Sunday games broadcast at 1 pm and 4 pm EST. However, due to league and network requirements, games broadcast by your local FOX or CBS station will not be available on NFL SUNDAY TICKET™. If your game is not available in the 700-719 channel range, simply switch over to your local FOX or CBS station."
> 
> I don't see anything new there. Like I said, you should be complaining to your affiliates, not DTV. If you dont have a local affiliate, but one close enough or in your neilsen area thingamabob that you just dont have access to, well thats just a crappy situation and I'm sorry to hear about it. Stuff like that sucks, but like I said, its not DirecTV's fault.


The blackout policy never applied to Boise before. The Directv rep I spoke with this afternoon told me they got the memo of the new blackout policy last week. I just feel like Directv didn't do a good job communicating the new blackout rules before the season began. Now we are stuck with a subscription that won't come close to paying for itself. Half the games of the team we watch will be on our local CBS station. However, most of the time the CBS station shows a crummy upconverted HD feed with lots of dropouts (not a very good signal). I guess now we will need to shell out another $3 a month to actually get all the Sunday games we paid for originally. And that assumes Directv will even bother to provide locals before the end of the year.


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## Msguy (May 23, 2003)

I have never had a Sunday Ticket Blackout untill today. My Local CBS Station Showed Raiders at the Steelers. I was blacked out on Sunday ticket and I am also being Blacked out of the Dallas-Minnesota game but i can get this game on Local Fox. Atleast i can see the game on Local.


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## tknopf (Sep 12, 2004)

I live in Wisconsin and this too, is this FIRST TIME games on our local CBS and FOX affiliate have been blocked out in my area on Sunday Ticket. I had access to ALL GAMES last year on Sunday Ticket despite what other posts are saying about years past. This includes games broadcast in HD!! This means that any Packer games broadcast in HD will NOT be available because all of the Packer games will be on my local FOX or CBS affiliate. Why weren't we made aware of this? Why would our local affiliates deny us the chance to watch the games in HD if they don't broadcast in HD? Who do we complain to so our voices are heard. This is a HUGE deal.
TMAN


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## Guest (Sep 12, 2004)

Ok something did change. If your local affiliate is going to show the game, you have to watch it there, it wont also be on Sunday Ticket. *This change is true even if DTV doesn't offer locals in that market*. Like I said, this isn't DTV's doing, talk to your affiliates, complain to them and the NFL. Nothing will happen, but its much more productive than bothering a CSR and probably their supervisor who have nothing to do with it.

It creates some crappy situations, but not everything is going to be all peachy when you have a sports blackout involved somewhere. Someone's gonna lose, and the NFL and the Networks are trying to make sure it isnt local TV stations. Sorry.


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## tknopf (Sep 12, 2004)

If this change is NEW, why then did we not see a reduction in cost for the Sunday Ticket if the number of games we have access to is greatly reduced? Seems logical to me. DTV may not be able to do anything about the availability of games, but they could've reduced the price a bit. TMAN



Stevo said:


> Ok something did change. If your local affiliate is going to show the game, you have to watch it there, it wont also be on Sunday Ticket. *This change is true even if DTV doesn't offer locals in that market*. Like I said, this isn't DTV's doing, talk to your affiliates, complain to them and the NFL. Nothing will happen, but its much more productive than bothering a CSR and probably their supervisor who have nothing to do with it.
> 
> It creates some crappy situations, but not everything is going to be all peachy when you have a sports blackout involved somewhere. Someone's gonna lose, and the NFL and the Networks are trying to make sure it isnt local TV stations. Sorry.


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## Msguy (May 23, 2003)

Sports Blackouts are getting too ridiculous. Why Why Why if we are paying for the service do they black us out. Even if the game is available in our local TV market. We ARE PAYING $$ to see it. They have GOT to do away with sports Blackouts.


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## Fredfa (Mar 27, 2003)

Perhaps it is because the networks are paying lots more than we are, and in recent years they have been forcing the local affiliates to ante up some of the costs for the $17.6 Billion dollar NFL TV contracts.
Obviously,those affiliates are now getting upset that NFL ST has 1.6 million subs, and many of them have not been watching the local stations.
Just because no one bothered to enforce the blackout rules in the past is no reason to be upset they are NOW enforcing them -- as they clearly state those rules on the NFL ST description on the DirecTV website.


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## SnowFade (Jul 5, 2004)

While this may seem minor compared to the people with the HD complaints, the fact that DirecTV didn't make known that the blackout disclaimer (which I believe has been there forever) was going to be enforced caused me to TiVo the wrong station and get 3 hours of "This program not available in your area." I understand it's the league/network/affiliate/whoever's right to black these games out, but I expect better from DirecTV than to not advertise the "new" restrictions.


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## Smthkd (Sep 1, 2004)

SnowFade said:


> While this may seem minor compared to the people with the HD complaints, the fact that DirecTV didn't make known that the blackout disclaimer (which I believe has been there forever) was going to be enforced caused me to TiVo the wrong station and get 3 hours of "This program not available in your area." I understand it's the league/network/affiliate/whoever's right to black these games out, but I expect better from DirecTV than to not advertise the "new" restrictions.


 I AGREE 100%, I mean the only reason most of us got the NFLST anyway is for the HD feeds of our own LOCAL Team! Honostly people, what sense does it make for you to pay $200 + dollars to see a game on a BASIC channel!  . For ALL of you who seem to think this is okay, I wonder if your getting PUNK'D for your money daily, If so GIVE ME a little, because I work TOO HARD to let DAVE F#@K Me Like a [email protected]%H. Im Definately going to pursue this! 200 BUCKS for nothing, thats stealing!!  OKAY EVERYBODY its time to send out some certified letters of complaints. One of our members provided these addresses:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=32702


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## DCSholtis (Aug 7, 2002)

Fredfa said:


> Perhaps it is because the networks are paying lots more than we are, and in recent years they have been forcing the local affiliates to ante up some of the costs for the $17.6 Billion dollar NFL TV contracts.
> Obviously,those affiliates are now getting upset that NFL ST has 1.6 million subs, and many of them have not been watching the local stations.
> Just because no one bothered to enforce the blackout rules in the past is no reason to be upset they are NOW enforcing them -- as they clearly state those rules on the NFL ST description on the DirecTV website.


BINGO!!! We have a winner. This change was done in order to protect the locals and their advertising dollars. It's been in effect since last season by the way. It started in 2002 in 2 test markets (Pittsburgh and Seattle) and spread nationwide last season. As been said before blame your greedy locals and the NFL not Directv its not their fault at all.


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## tknopf (Sep 12, 2004)

The blackouts of games on local CBS and FOX stations WAS NOT implemented last year with SUNDAY TICKET. There was no word from DIRECTV about this change. Most of us found out today!
TMAN

in


DCSholtis said:


> BINGO!!! We have a winner. This change was done in order to protect the locals and their advertising dollars. It's been in effect since last season by the way. It started in 2002 in 2 test markets (Pittsburgh and Seattle) and spread nationwide last season. As been said before blame your greedy locals and the NFL not Directv its not their fault at all.


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## juan ellitinez (Jan 31, 2003)

You could always subscribe to sirius!! They have NO blackouts and carry both home and away feeds


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## 330cic (Jun 29, 2004)

juan ellitinez said:


> You could always subscribe to sirius!! They have NO blackouts and carry both home and away feeds


I have Sirius but am having a tough time getting a picture on my car radio


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## cdharris (Jan 21, 2004)

DCSholtis said:


> As been said before blame your greedy locals and the NFL not Directv its not their fault at all.


How about this. All of us should contact our "local" Fox and CBS stations and let them know that as long as they prohibit us from receiving the HD feed on DirecTV while not providing HD themselves, we are going to boycott their advertisers. To make it even more effective, call, write or email the advertisers and let them know you are not going to buy anything from them as long as they are advertising on those local channels. I assure you they will take any hint of a boycott serious. We just need to get a lot of people to write and call.


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## esteg (Aug 27, 2003)

I bought ST to watch NFL football its the only way i can . you get me local stations carrying NFL football YOU can have the money!!!


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## scott2020 (Sep 13, 2004)

Same here... First time I have heard about blackouts on ST. Funny thing is, I was watching the Dallas game until halftime, then all of a sudden it cut out on Ch. 716. I called DTV and they said it was being shown on my local FOX station. I asked them what FOX station? I don't have local service, hence the need for ST. They said sorry, nothing we can do! Give me my locals and I won't complain. I just want to watch the game! When I lived in Chicago and HAD Chicago locals, NEVER was a game blacked out. Oh well. Money grubbing local affiliates. Screw us as long as the advertisers are happy. I am going to write to my local affiliate and make sure they know I could give a DAMN about their local advertisers, since I have not been able to see a local broadcast in 2 1/2 years!


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

tknopf said:


> The blackouts of games on local CBS and FOX stations WAS NOT implemented last year with SUNDAY TICKET. There was no word from DIRECTV about this change. Most of us found out today!
> TMAN
> 
> in


Oh good lord. How many boards must I see all this same crying? THE POLICY IS NOT NEW. It's been in place for 3 years now. 2 years ago only enforced in Seattle and Pittsburgh. Last year it went national but wasn't enforced in many smaller markets. It could have been, but wasn't. This year they have the technology in place to be able (for the first time) actually follow the policy for everyone tha the NFL imposes on DirecTV.

And puhhhhlease. You can't tell me this is the first you have heard of it. The blackout policy is ALL OVER anything and everything about Sunday Ticket from the D* web site to mailings to the channels that sell Sunday Ticket. If you didn't read it then it's your fault, plain and simple.


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## scott2020 (Sep 13, 2004)

NFL Blackouts USED to go something like this:
If you are within 90 miles of the home team stadium and the game is not sold out, the game will not be broadcast on your local affiliate, BLACKOUT. This is to drive people into the stadium so the team and stadium wasn't losing money. It had little to do with out of market people watching, and most non sold out games were indeed broadcast on out of market stations (duh!) Now the money game is different, that's all it is. What about the people who bought ST for the HD? They are screwed in most cases, but will they get a refund? Doubt it. What about people like me, who can't see their local affiliate even with an antenna on the outside with an amplifier and such? Do I get a refund for the games I can't see? Unlikely. Does DTV carry my locals? NO. The game that is broadcast to me on my local affiliate won't be on ST, and therefore I can't watch it. However anyone tries to justify it, it comes down to the hard working guy paying $200 a year for a service getting the shaft by DTV, who won't stand up to the local affiliates or NAB to the benefit of their customers. Shafted by the locals, shafted by the NFL, whatever, it's still a shafting! DTV does in fact have some leverage to make changes with NFL rules, if that is what they are blaming it on, since they pay the hefty price to carry all of the games. OH well, I guess this little guy will take his vaseline and watch what I can...


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## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

> it comes down to the hard working guy paying $200 a year for a service getting the shaft by DTV, who won't stand up to the local affiliates or NAB to the benefit of their customers.


*EVERYONE* who had the NFL Sunday Ticket package last season received a letter explaining the blackout restriction changes. As a D* CSR, most people I have talked to admit to getting the letter but threw it away thinking it was an ad.

If you didn't have the package last year, the blackout restrictions were explained to you at the time of the order. The blackout information is also available on their website, and is linked from the NFL's Sunday Ticket page.

The HD feeds follow the same blackout restrictions as the standard definition channels.
Does it make sense that just because someone spent an ungodly amount on a TV that they should get the games that someone else can't because they don't have HD? *NO!*

If you didn't pay attention to the blackout restrictions , it is your own fault. You were warned at least once, and had access to the blackout restrictions on the website before the season started.

Anyway, there are up to 14 games played each Sunday, and your local CBS and FOX networks carry at most 4 of them. This still leaves you with around 10 games a week for the 17 week season. Just try getting 170 NFL games for "$200 a year" anywhere else!


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## Fredfa (Mar 27, 2003)

This is what the DirecTV website says (and has for quite a while - back to at least last year as I recall):

*WHERE TO FIND YOUR GAMES*
*NFL SUNDAY TICKET™* consists of regular season Sunday games broadcast at 1 pm and 4 pm EST. However, due to league and network requirements, games broadcast by your local FOX or CBS station will not be available on *NFL SUNDAY TICKET™*. If your game is not available in the 700-719 channel range, simply switch over to your local FOX or CBS station.

*Blackout Guidelines*
A regular-season, Sunday afternoon home team game will be blacked out in a home team's territory if the game fails to sell out at least 72 hours before the game. Click here to to find out if your ZIP Code is inside the local broadcast area for any NFL team.


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## esteg (Aug 27, 2003)

SO, no locals ,no over the air, equals - no game


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## scott2020 (Sep 13, 2004)

People are paying for a service. People who choose to spend $$$ on HD and expect to get HD games on ST (one of their bigger selling points this year) won't get the service they paid for. For whatever reason, the customer is getting the short end of the stick because no one looks out for us. A bunch of high paid lawyers and such decide who can see what and where the money goes, in the end sticking it to us.

This issue isn't even really about BLACKOUTS. This issue deals with NFL and network requirements... word it how you will, but it still stinks. Those of us who don't get locals can't watch, and that isn't right. But hey, who cares about a few hicks that live out in the sticks, right?


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## Veander (Aug 15, 2004)

Kheldar said:


> The HD feeds follow the same blackout restrictions as the standard definition channels.
> Does it make sense that just because someone spent an ungodly amount on a TV that they should get the games that someone else can't because they don't have HD? *NO!*
> 
> If you didn't pay attention to the blackout restrictions , it is your own fault. You were warned at least once, and had access to the blackout restrictions on the website before the season started.


I didn't know it had changed from "selling out" to "if it's on your locals, you are blacked out" and the CSR never mentioned a thing on the phone when I ordered the packacke. Honestly though I am only trying to watch the Browns and Redskins while living up here in Minnesota, so I doubt I will have to deal with this much (until one of them plays up here on rare occasions).

Anyway, what is considered an ungodly amount of money to spend on a TV? People who spend this money on this technology are driving the market and should certainly be catered to more than someone who is not. If I spend more money on anything I want more out of it. So the NFL and DirecTV are telling us folks who spend lots on our home theaters that we aren't getting anything extra? Who cares what is though? Quite honestly if this is how the NFL wants to be about this arrangement, then I fear for them when the ST is no longer just DirecTVs to sell. If and when that happens you will quickly see this blackout rule go very far away. $219 a year is a lot of money especially since there are so many subscribers.

On the other hand, I was able to catch all the games yesterday even though 2 or 3 were on locals. With the fact that I had to change from the 90s to the 700s already, I could have cared less about going to the locals, but I DO understand it's rediculous. $219 is a lot of money... Period. Any business which can successfully pick up that kind of money from as many as the NFL does (and this doesn't include what other money we NFL ST subs pay for their other products) should be willing to ignore local advertising dollars for the sake of maintaining the quality of a product that costs as much as it does. MOST people don't spend anything on the NFL every year. WE spent AT LEAST $219. The blackout rules just don't make sense to me. Even though it doesn't bother me personally, I AM going to join the writing drive and see if we can force a "review" of the call here. Heh

Just some thoughts and ramblings.


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## jabroni (Apr 6, 2003)

This is the only thing I don't like about Sunday Ticket. I also like to watch the Cowboys, but yesterday, the local FOX station in my area aired the Vikes-Cowboys game and it was blacked out. I really wanted to watch it in HD but no, I couldn't. I also root for the Cleveland Browns, but once again, they were on my local CBS affiliate and subsequently blacked out on ST.

I wonder if I dropped my locals if I would still have these games blacked out? I can't receive any channels OTA where I live.


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## nomad816 (Jun 22, 2004)

The networks do this to protect the advertising of their local affiliates. As a policy, it stinks but that have done a good job this year of getting the word out. D* is not to blame, CBS and FOX are the culprits.

I did watch the Dallas-Minnesota game in HD on the local Fox channel. It was the best looking HD progran I have ever watched. It was a better picture than the HD that was coming across D* for the other ST games.


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## TonyM (Aug 14, 2003)

jabroni said:


> I wonder if I dropped my locals if I would still have these games blacked out? I can't receive any channels OTA where I live.


No
If the local CBS or FOX is showing the game, EVEN IF LOCALS ARENT AVAILABLE IN YOUR AREA or you don't subscribe to them, it will be blacked out


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## nomad816 (Jun 22, 2004)

jabroni said:


> I wonder if I dropped my locals if I would still have these games blacked out?


They would still be blacked out. This issue has nothing to do with receiving your locals from D*.


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## Veander (Aug 15, 2004)

jabroni said:


> This is the only thing I don't like about Sunday Ticket. I also like to watch the Cowboys, but yesterday, the local FOX station in my area aired the Vikes-Cowboys game and it was blacked out. I really wanted to watch it in HD but no, I couldn't. I also root for the Cleveland Browns, but once again, they were on my local CBS affiliate and subsequently blacked out on ST.
> 
> I wonder if I dropped my locals if I would still have these games blacked out? I can't receive any channels OTA where I live.


In my opinion you are a customer that is seriously being thwarted by the situation. You bought a SEASON TICKET! How many eyes do you have? Two right (ok if I am wrong I apologize but you get my point)? Well even with TWO eyes you can't see more than ONE game at a time. So effectively you bought ONE Season Ticket to a team. You could argue it's two season tickets since one can watch one team at 12pm and the other at 3:15 but these days most games are on at 12pm (1pmEST). You could go to the Brown's stadium on season ticket prices of $300 if you look for the deals, so why TV season tickets are getting the shaft is beyond me.

Hmm, I seem to be more upset about this the more I try to reason what the affiliates (umm, I even live in a O&O area for CBS), the NFL and or DirecTV are doing here.


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## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

> Quite honestly if this is how the NFL wants to be about this arrangement, then I fear for them when the ST is no longer just DirecTVs to sell. If and when that happens you will quickly see this blackout rule go very far away. $219 a year is a lot of money especially since there are so many subscribers.


If you pay attention to any of the other sports packages, you know this is not true. Wake up and smell the blackouts, dude!


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## jabroni (Apr 6, 2003)

Fortunately, I have a HD Tivo and can record 4 NFL ST games per week. It is just a bummer that I am forced to watch the SD local presentation of my beloved Browns.

Here is another twist: I have waivers from all four major nets and get the east and west coast feeds. Lets say that Cleveland is playing Oakland at 4 pm and KCBS (LA) carries this game AS WELL AS my local affiliate. Will Direct black out my feed of KCBS AND the NFL ST feed?


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## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

> Here is another twist: I have waivers from all four major nets and get the east and west coast feeds. Lets say that Cleveland is playing Oakland at 4 pm and KCBS (LA) carries this game AS WELL AS my local affiliate. Will Direct black out my feed of KCBS AND the NFL ST feed?


You would get blacked out of the NFL ST feed, but not KCBS.


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## jabroni (Apr 6, 2003)

Kheldar said:


> You would get blacked out of the NFL ST feed, but not KCBS.


Boy, I hope this is the case as I am sure to have a lotta games blacked out on ST this year. It is especially bad when CBS has the doubleheader, because in my area, the local affiliate always shows the Browns.....

Man am I glad I have them waivers and distant nets. Now all I need is for Direct to turn on the east and west coast digital FOX feeds...


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## cdharris (Jan 21, 2004)

Kheldar said:


> *EVERYONE* who had the NFL Sunday Ticket package last season received a letter explaining the blackout restriction changes.


I didn't get a letter or any other warning that ST would be any different this year than last year. The fact is that I don't have a real Fox local affiliate so I wouldn't have worried about it anyway. If DircecTV had warned me, before they started automatically billing me for the renewal, that they were not going to let me have any games, either in SD or HD, being shown on the Fox station 110 miles away, regardless of whether or not I can receive it, I most certainly would not have subscribed. I have absolutely no use for ST if I can't get the few games I care about and am going to demand a refund.


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## Guest (Sep 13, 2004)

The only time I've ever had a blackout has been when the Bengals have not sold out. Yesterday, I had the [email protected], [email protected] and [email protected] all blacked out. What's worse is that my local CBS (WKYT - Lexington, KY) did not even show the [email protected] on their digital channel 27.1. They showed the [email protected] on the analog broadcast and the HD broadcast of the [email protected] on 27.1. So I had no digital broadcast of one game ([email protected]) and 2 HD broadcast of the [email protected] both on 27.1 and DTV, forcing me to watch the [email protected] on blurry analog. I thought local stations could not multicast NFL games like that.

Also the Lexington FOX station broadcast at very low power with their signal pointing away from the city and I get 0 signal strength from them. Therefore, I will be blacked out and shorted at least one/two FOX HD broadcast on ST each week. 

What a bunch of bull.


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## longshot (Jul 16, 2003)

hmmm so let me get this straight i live in Toledo, OH which is in Blackout range for the Detroit Lions, and I am a Washington Redskins fan and Washington is playing @ Philly and my local affiliate shows the game. It would be blacked out on NFLST?

Is that correct logic?


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## Fredfa (Mar 27, 2003)

Yes it is, longshot. Whatever is on your local Fox or CBS station will be blacked out on NFL ST.


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## Guest (Sep 13, 2004)

> ...the customer is getting the short end of the stick because no one looks out for us.


 No, its cause the customer wont listen to reason, and set false expectations.



> Quite honestly if this is how the NFL wants to be about this arrangement, then I fear for them when the ST is no longer just DirecTVs to sell.


 Everyone will still have blackouts.



> I wonder if I dropped my locals if I would still have these games blacked out?


 If you're in a neilsen market that is showing locals, it will be blocked out on whatever service you get your NFL games through.



> I can't receive any channels OTA where I live.


Bummer.



> What a bunch of bull.


Ya, all that sucks, but has nothing to do with DTV.



> hmmm so let me get this straight i live in Toledo, OH which is in Blackout range for the Detroit Lions, and I am a Washington Redskins fan and Washington is playing @ Philly and my local affiliate shows the game. It would be blacked out on NFLST?
> 
> Is that correct logic?


 2 Possible blackouts here. If the Lions do not sell out within x time of the start of the game, it will be blacked out if you're truely in 'their market' (dont remember if it will be blocked for an out of market ST sub). This is in addition to any ST blackouts due to local affiliates showing a game. If you have a problem with that, refer to the stick thread with the NFL and Affiliate addresses, because its not DTV's fault.


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## Guest (Sep 13, 2004)

> If you're in a neilsen market that is showing locals, it will be blocked out on whatever service you get your NFL games through.


Guess I should register so i can edit stuff like this, but i meant that if your neilsen-determined market is playing a NFL game, that will be blacked out, not 'if you have locals' it will be blacked out.


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## longshot (Jul 16, 2003)

Stevo said:


> 2 Possible blackouts here. If the Lions do not sell out within x time of the start of the game, it will be blacked out if you're truely in 'their market' (dont remember if it will be blocked for an out of market ST sub). This is in addition to any ST blackouts due to local affiliates showing a game. If you have a problem with that, refer to the stick thread with the NFL and Affiliate addresses, because its not DTV's fault.


I could care less if they blackout Lions games, and yes i am truly in the Lions market as im only 55 miles from Ford Field and Directv's website states i am in the market as well.


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## Marvin (Sep 14, 2003)

I dont have ST, but I have a question. There isn't a Fox affiliate in my DMA, but comcast does carry Fox5 Out of Washington DC, so would that prevent me from being able to watch the Redskins games since they always carry the Redskins games?


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## Bogey62 (Dec 1, 2002)

Did anyone else watch the Vikings/Cowboys (SD) game and notice that the audio feed for the crowd/stadium announcer overpowered the TV announcers? 

I flipped around to other games and did not notice any problem with the audio on those games, only on the Vikings/Cowboys.

I called to ***** about it, but all the lady on the other end could offer was tech support and the possibility of getting a new receiver!


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## TonyM (Aug 14, 2003)

Bogey62 said:


> Did anyone else watch the Vikings/Cowboys (SD) game and notice that the audio feed for the crowd/stadium announcer overpowered the TV announcers?
> 
> I flipped around to other games and did not notice any problem with the audio on those games, only on the Vikings/Cowboys.
> 
> I called to ***** about it, but all the lady on the other end could offer was tech support and the possibility of getting a new receiver!


Bogey
I saw the OTA feed in Mpls (KMSP) and it was like that too


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

cdharris said:


> I didn't get a letter or any other warning that ST would be any different this year than last year. The fact is that I don't have a real Fox local affiliate so I wouldn't have worried about it anyway. If DircecTV had warned me, before they started automatically billing me for the renewal, that they were not going to let me have any games, either in SD or HD, being shown on the Fox station 110 miles away, regardless of whether or not I can receive it, I most certainly would not have subscribed. I have absolutely no use for ST if I can't get the few games I care about and am going to demand a refund.


I have received *at least* 3 brochure's in the mail about Sunday Ticket this year, being that I subbed last year. Each one of them mentioned the blackouts.

Second, nothing with the local blackouts is any different then it was last year. Exact same policy existed last year, they just didn't enforce it in smaller markets. This year they do.

Not to get on you personally, I just don't get why peope don't do their research before paying big money for something. I've had the ticket for 4 years but each year I do my research, at least on the DirecTV web site and read any literature I get from DirecTV about it to make sure I'm still getting what I want. Only make sense...


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## starrsrg (May 20, 2004)

Scott, you are right. I wish I had read the fine print. However I never imagined that a sports blackout would apply to me since I always thought of them in the traditional sense where the local team wants you to come see the game. Living in Boise where we obviously have no NFL team, I just assumed that a blackout would not apply to me.

The thing that really irritates me now is that I can't find a schedule for my local fox affiliate to know what games they plan on televising. It is also very frustrating because I have no idea if a game that I'm trying to watch/record on tivo will suddently get blacked out because my local station has switched to it after some other game ended. I can just see it now. i've tivod a game my local station didn't play. The game goes into overtime and it gets really exciting. However, I can't watch the last 5 minutes because my local station has just switched to it and my tivod recording gets 5 minutes of "This show not available in your area."

GIVE ME A BREAK. That is just rediculous

It already happened yesterday that a game got blacked out at halftime. Why? I have no clue. But we watched the first half in glorious HD and then had to switch to the lame local fox SD broadcast. This basically makes tape delaying games impossible, because you never know when your recording is going to cut out on you.


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## Veander (Aug 15, 2004)

Kheldar said:


> If you pay attention to any of the other sports packages, you know this is not true. Wake up and smell the blackouts, dude!


But the ST blackouts operate on a different system than the other packages... dude...


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## Veander (Aug 15, 2004)

I dunno. This really erks me. Whoever is responsible, the reality is that it's D*'s product and they need to deal with it. Or at least tell us what to do to go to bat on this. I wouldn't have any problem with this if blackouts had started out this way and if ST was originally like this. I have had the package a couple times over the past 5 or 6 years. 

Why people are backing D* on this is beyond me. My local CBS has audio problems (no clue why I have a 100% signal) so this may only effect me there. If I don't see each and every Cleveland Browns/Redskins game this year though I will never spend this amount of money again. I enjoy football but $200 (and more in years to come) a year is a bit much already for me.


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## spanishannouncetable (Apr 23, 2002)

starrsrg said:


> ...The thing that really irritates me now is that I can't find a schedule for my local fox affiliate to know what games they plan on televising...


This thread at DBSForums has some really cool maps showing what was going to be broadcast and where for this past weekend -

http://www.dbsforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38269&perpage=15&pagenumber=3

I also found the website for your Boise Fox station, but the guide data there is waaaaaay out-of-date. Maybe you could write to them and ask them nicely to update their own freakin' guide data ?  -

http://www.ktrv.com/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=27


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## spanishannouncetable (Apr 23, 2002)

Veander said:


> I dunno. This really erks me. Whoever is responsible, the reality is that it's D*'s product and they need to deal with it. Or at least tell us what to do to go to bat on this. I wouldn't have any problem with this if blackouts had started out this way and if ST was originally like this. I have had the package a couple times over the past 5 or 6 years.


It's NOT Directv's product, it's the NFL's. THEY make the rules that Directv has to abide by. The NFL's rules are created by CBS and Fox, who are trying to protect the advertising revenue of their affiliates. Your local CBS and Fox channels don't want you watching the game on the Sunday Ticket channel from another market, they want to force you to watch THEIR OTA or satellite-delivered broadcast of your chosen game so you can see the commercials THEY sold to local advertisers.

When NFLST started, the rules were different (read "better"). Local advertising was less of an issue. Over the years Fox and CBS have had to shell out more and more $$$ to keep the NFL happy and now the local affiliates want every eyeball in their market counted. We all agree THIS SITUATION SUCKS but this is the way it is and will be from now on. Enjoy your memories from the good old days 



Veander said:


> Why people are backing D* on this is beyond me. My local CBS has audio problems (no clue why I have a 100% signal) so this may only effect me there. If I don't see each and every Cleveland Browns/Redskins game this year though I will never spend this amount of money again. I enjoy football but $200 (and more in years to come) a year is a bit much already for me.


Again, Directv has no say-so in the matter. I'm sure Directv would LOVE to advertise "get every game every week with no blackouts anywhere for any reason", but the reality of the sports TV marketplace has crept in a little more every year. The price of the Ticket stays more-or-less where it is but fewer games are available to subscribers now than 2 or 3 years ago.

I have a suggestion for those who need some help with Ticket issues - try "moving" to a nearby market that DOES carry a full slate of Fox and CBS games, most of which you'll want to watch. Maybe you'll see you can live without the Ticket and save some bucks, or you'll see the value of the Ticket for all the other OOM games which will still be available.

Just a thought...


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## Guest (Sep 14, 2004)

cdharris said:


> How about this. All of us should contact our "local" Fox and CBS stations and let them know that as long as they prohibit us from receiving the HD feed on DirecTV while not providing HD themselves, we are going to boycott their advertisers. To make it even more effective, call, write or email the advertisers and let them know you are not going to buy anything from them as long as they are advertising on those local channels. I assure you they will take any hint of a boycott serious. We just need to get a lot of people to write and call.


You hit the nail right on the head!! The only thing the "powers that be" understand is what hits them in the pocket. When the advertisers start getting the boycott messages (in numbers) then they will listen; otherwise, they couldn't care less. I'm watching the advertisers next week and then calling to tell them that not only I, but my family and friends as well, will refuse to purchase their merchandise until the blackout pol.icy is lifted. Let the whining begin!!! We need numbers to do this, not just the normal moaning without action


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## Veander (Aug 15, 2004)

It's definitely considered a DirecTV product. I can sell Pepsi and while it's still Pepsi's product it would also be a product I sold. If someone had a problem with the product maybe the best answer wouldn't be contacting me, but as a good seller I would probably make every attempt at making the product better. How? I don't know as my comparison is getting away from me. Hehe. Add into that hypothetical that I am the ONLy seller of Pepsis and you begin to see my responsibility to the consumer of this one product that only I can sell.

Anyway, I fully understand the details of this and who's blame it lays on and why it's being done. But that isn't the point. It wasn't done this way in the past and THAT is the key. It's a change while the price of the "distribution" company (D*) hasn't changed at all. So apparently they don't do anything with the price either. Well, then they should stop selling it. They don't buy some of these HD channels because they can't come to agreements with the parent companies. 

I simply can't understand some of you folks supporting bad business. I have 3-4 games a week being blacked out. Granted I can get them on OTA, but I am paying out the butt for a product that's 3-4 games less a week than it was previously. The logic is simple here. Customers pay more for product when the quality of the product definitely diminishes. That's the way I see it. I don't care who is at fault. I'll point my HDTV-, ST-, home theater-buying finger at anyone in this equation. I spent the money and here I discover that the small print changed from what's it's been. Point the finger at the consumer enough and the consumer stops buying. I guarantee you if people have 4 games a week blacked out the buying of this package will have to decrease.


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## Greg Bimson (May 5, 2003)

> Anyway, I fully understand the details of this and who's blame it lays on and why it's being done. But that isn't the point. It wasn't done this way in the past and THAT is the key. It's a change while the price of the "distribution" company (D*) hasn't changed at all. So apparently they don't do anything with the price either.


How do we not know that DirecTV wasn't affected by this? After all, this is the third year in a row where DirecTV has expanded the blackout restrictions of Sunday Ticket on orders from the NFL. Do you honestly believe DirecTV got some kind of rebate? I don't.

The NFL is one of the best capitalist organizations in the world. They know how to make money. And they know how to restrict the delivery of their product to keep themselves the most popular sport in the United States.


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## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

> nothing with the local blackouts is any different then it was last year. Exact same policy existed last year, they just didn't enforce it in smaller markets. This year they do.


The blackout policy _last year_ only involved *markets where D* carried the local channels*.
The blackout policy _this year_ involves *every local channel market regardless of whether or not D* carries them.*

So, yes, the blackouts are different this year than they were last year.


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## Veander (Aug 15, 2004)

Greg Bimson said:


> The NFL is one of the best capitalist organizations in the world. They know how to make money. And they know how to restrict the delivery of their product to keep themselves the most popular sport in the United States.


They can keep it up, too because here's my answer. I just cancelled and didn't spend a dime. I got one week free I guess, but I was on the phone with their one department complaining to not pay anything. Also I called my brother-in-law who had a similar problem watching his favorite teams in Cleveland Sunday. He just cancelled too.

Hate to miss my games, but this is just silly imo. Normal blackout rules are fine with me, but this is just not for me anymore. Heck with OTA I will still get plenty of HD games anyway.

V


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

Everyone has there own local issues. So do I. I do understand the desire for Blackout rules in the case of a no sell out game and a local airing of that game on local broadcast station. Now for my complaint. I intended to watch a non-local FOX game that was not aired on local FOX station. Yet, I was blacked out on that one game too. As far as I can tell there is no blackout stated rule that says No Titans games may be aired in Jacksonville FL. So why did the NFL list the Titans game to be blacked out here? Not even D* knows the answer. It just was.

I empathize with all those who are forced to receive a game on local broadcast with a substandard signals. That is not my problem. Fortunately, I live close enough to receive locals by OTA and have no issue watching a game on local channel. They even feed the HDTV is available. 

Here's my suggestion-
NFL ST should be exempt from all blackout rules. We pay an exorbitant price to D* / NFL for the few games we watch. Last year I prorated my NFLST cost to $40 per game! I'm not your 15 TV set running simultaneously NFL fan but I like a few games and like a few players and love to watch them perform. Unfortunately, the times I get to watch the games they are in are either targeted blackouts or on local TV. So why do I pay the NFLST cost when the NFL is ripping me off with the blackouts? 
The answer is complicated but let's just say I have a special account and must have NFLST to get the rates I pay for the other services. It was part of the deal I negotiated with D*. Blackouts for no reason was not part of the deal. And just because I must sub to NFLST does not give them the ethical right to black out games that do not fit the rules they, themselves, conjured up. Again, NFLST holders should not be subject to any blackout rules because we pay! If you watch "FREE" TV you get blacked out but when you pay to watch those games you should never get blacked out. 

There is only one way this will ever happen. That would be if all of a sudden everyone in a grass roots movement would boycott NFLST. Cancel their account immediately and state the reason was the blackout rule. D* would suffer the immediate loss but they would be forced to negotiate with the NFL on it. At first NFL would play hardball but but eventually the NFL would cave on it. Pay some of the moneys to local stations based on NFLST and keep the channels open that do not have any stated rules or to those who have LIL and pay. The sellout rule may be the only remaining legitimate BO. 

But, ref the sellout rule. Since Last season Jacksonville was victimized by this and needed to do something. The owner realized his stadium was too big for the community support so they covered over many of the seats that are in place for bigger games than NFL. Now we have a lower seat capacity and this is supposed to prevent no-sellout blackout. I just wanted you all to know there are many loopholes in these blackout rules so. The only rule they know is that we are small but unorganized and they are big and centralized and in control. They also are at out merciful $. So let's boycott NFLST if we are really unhappy with the service. ITs the only game we can play.


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## Guest (Sep 14, 2004)

I can see that I'm not the only unhappy person here when it comes to NFL Sunday Ticket. I find it amazing that people outside our local market can view "our" favorite teams in HD, but we're stuck watching in SD on our local channels. What a crock of bull!

I even complained to Directv that I have waivers to view distant networks, but that still didn't matter. I requested to speak to a supervisor and got my money back.

Now I'm calling my local cable company to provide me with "local" hd channels which costs less than the Sunday ticket, at least for the football season.


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## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

Let me be up front with this: I am not a fan of professional sports, although I do support the Sacramento Kings. The teams to watch in this area are the niners and the raiders. The rest of the time, it's like they spin a wheel for the second game to broadcast, and it could be a snorer.

If I were a niners fan or part of the raider nation, then NFL Sunday Ticket isn't for me. Those are provided by my local affiliates. But, if I were a transplanted cheese head, then yeah, I would want to subscribe to Sunday Ticket.

To the folks who were able to cancel NFL Sunday Ticket, GOOD! Now, write those letters expressing your concern. NFL Sunday Ticket is one of those prime packages that I would subscribe to. Both CBS and FOX paid a lot of money for the rights, and even have the affiliates pay for the privledge of broadcasting those games. What puzzles me is the blackout rule, and how a local station can change in the middle of a game. Maybe it's the blowout rule... I don't know. But, some of you may watch one game and TiVo another. What the NFL should say is that at the same time it is determined if the game is sold out or not, the station should also select the games to broadcast and whether or not they will switch coverage.

Also, some of you got the NFL Sunday Ticket because of the games in HD and your station's inability to broadcast in HD. This, too, needs to be addressed.

What DirecTV needs to do is modify the local address qualifier and say that, according to your ZIP code, you qualify for the locals _AND_ you are in the home area for the following sports teams.

It's also too bad that NFL Sunday Ticket doesn't allow the rebroadcast of one or two "game of the weeks" where you get a second chance to watch the previous Sunday's exciting games along with network and sponsor promos. No, wait, that would interfere with the Network evening schedules.

I'll see about getting the team addresses.


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## sikma (Dec 11, 2003)

I suspect this is the start of many disturbing trends....I would guess that the NHL, NBA and MLB Tickets will be the next ones that 'they' screw with. Better get an awfully tall OTA antenna.


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## Bogey62 (Dec 1, 2002)

I remember the good old days when all I had to do was flip around a few C-band transponders and locate the feed for the game(s) I wanted to watch -- absolutely 100% free!

Then the Sunday Tciket came out on C-band back in '95 (I think) and cost a paltry $90 -- I think at its high point on C-band it cost $109. Ever since DirecTV bought it the price has skyrocketed. I wish they would offer a "team pass" for those of us who couldn't care less about all those games and only want to watch our team play -- but then greed is the name of the game so why not lock the suckers into all games?


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## Veander (Aug 15, 2004)

Mark Holtz said:


> Both CBS and FOX paid a lot of money for the rights, and even have the affiliates pay for the privledge of broadcasting those games.


Interestingly I am in an O&O market for CBS here, not an affiliate, and I still had my CBS games blacked out.

My wife is more upset about me cancelling NFL ST than I thought she would be. hehe. I have a friend who is going to record the Brown's games and send them to me on DVD no less. So I simply have to avoid watching the sports channels until I get the game in the mail from him. As far as Redskins well... oh well. There has to be some sacrifice to let DirecTV know this customer is NOT happy. To me the principle alone is enough as I wasn't having some of these issues where I didn't get to see any games. In fact, I am seriously considering leaving D* now since the Sunday Ticket was one of the only reasons I was with them.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Kheldar said:


> The blackout policy _last year_ only involved *markets where D* carried the local channels*.
> The blackout policy _this year_ involves *every local channel market regardless of whether or not D* carries them.*
> 
> So, yes, the blackouts are different this year than they were last year.


Incorrect. The blackouts last year were only in the biggest markets and NFL cities. I've had my locals on D* for years and we were not blacked out last year but are this year.

The blackouts have nothing to do with whether you get your locals from DirecTv or not or if they are even available on DirecTV. Never have been.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Veander said:


> I simply can't understand some of you folks supporting bad business. I have 3-4 games a week being blacked out. Granted I can get them on OTA, but I am paying out the butt for a product that's 3-4 games less a week than it was previously. The logic is simple here. Customers pay more for product when the quality of the product definitely diminishes. That's the way I see it. I don't care who is at fault. I'll point my HDTV-, ST-, home theater-buying finger at anyone in this equation. I spent the money and here I discover that the small print changed from what's it's been. Point the finger at the consumer enough and the consumer stops buying. I guarantee you if people have 4 games a week blacked out the buying of this package will have to decrease.


Nobody likes the blackouts. But you should always evaluate cost vs. what you get. Like it has been said, if all the games you'd ever want to watch are available to you via your local stations, then why in the world would you ever waste $179 on Sunday Ticket?

For me it's still worth every dime. Why? Because I live in a market that is not *my* teams market. With just local stations I might get to see my team twice, maybe three times a year. With Sunday Ticket I get to see them every week. That alone is worth every dime. Secondly, being a fantasy football nut, I can watch all of my players on all the other games as I flip around. Again, no way I can do that with locals only. So for me the cost of ST is worth it.

But if you are a die hard Vikings fan and you get the Vikings game on your local station every week and that's all you care about, then ST has never been any value to you and is a waste of money. I'd drop it too.


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## SouthernSky (Jul 15, 2003)

Kheldar said:


> *EVERYONE* who had the NFL Sunday Ticket package last season received a letter explaining the blackout restriction changes. As a D* CSR, most people I have talked to admit to getting the letter but threw it away thinking it was an ad. The HD feeds follow the same blackout restrictions as the standard definition channels.


Hmmm...as a D* CSR, my guess is you received thousands of calls like your co-workers did over this fiasco.

Previous non-enforcement has resulted in major complaints this year. We received over 90 calls Sunday and Monday from our customers who subscibe to the Sunday Ticket who have been able to view the Saints games for the last thirty games. Our local zip codes are "out of home team market" according to the DirecTV website's Blackout Areas zip code checker.

So now, Fox via off-air antenna, an unclear picture at best, is their only choice? And why did the Dallas game go off at half-time? And why were local HD users able to see the Saints game in HD on channel 92 but not the standard definition on 706?

Fox has no HD towers in central Louisiana. The nearest HD tower is in Natchez, Mississippi.

So, does DirecTV bear any responsibility since Fox can give this out-of-market game to local cable subscribers but not to satellite customers in non-cable areas (and non-LIL) in the same zip code?

Surely, this has been all been known to Rupert for quite awhile due to the Fox/DirecTV relationship.


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## rrbhokies (May 10, 2004)

bonscott87 said:


> Like it has been said, if all the games you'd ever want to watch are available to you via your local stations, then why in the world would you ever waste $179 on Sunday Ticket?


Who got Sunday Ticket for $179? I thought the cheapest was $199 for the early bird special?


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## cdharris (Jan 21, 2004)

I have called D* at least 10 times since Sunday afternoon to cancel my ST and have never been able to talk to a person. When I finally get through all the voice mail options and am waiting to talk to a CSR, it goes to a busy signal. I have sent 2 emails telliing them I want to cancel and why, but have not received a reply.

I bought ST this year (and last) strictly for the HD games. Since the Cowboys and Texans will be on locals which are supposedly in my area, even though I can't get them, I will never get to see the games I want in HD. Therefore, ST is worthless to me and I am going to cancel if I can ever get through.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

rrbhokies said:


> Who got Sunday Ticket for $179? I thought the cheapest was $199 for the early bird special?


$179 has been the renewal price for 2 years.


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## jabroni (Apr 6, 2003)

As soon as the Direct call center is operational again, I am cancelling the ST package. Very disappointing.


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## Veander (Aug 15, 2004)

bonscott87 said:


> Nobody likes the blackouts. But you should always evaluate cost vs. what you get. Like it has been said, if all the games you'd ever want to watch are available to you via your local stations, then why in the world would you ever waste $179 on Sunday Ticket?
> 
> For me it's still worth every dime. Why? Because I live in a market that is not *my* teams market. With just local stations I might get to see my team twice, maybe three times a year. With Sunday Ticket I get to see them every week. That alone is worth every dime. Secondly, being a fantasy football nut, I can watch all of my players on all the other games as I flip around. Again, no way I can do that with locals only. So for me the cost of ST is worth it.
> 
> But if you are a die hard Vikings fan and you get the Vikings game on your local station every week and that's all you care about, then ST has never been any value to you and is a waste of money. I'd drop it too.


You don't see the bigger picture of what's happening as bad though?

For me it's more about making a statement than anything else. Writing letters will happen but I doubt it will have ANY effect. Me dropping the package and not giving them a dime will have more of an effect than my one letter. So despite the wife trying to convince me to get it and be damned with my principles, I am going to do without it until this new blackout system goes away. If it never goes away, then it looks like I will never have it.

If you keep making excuses why that amount of money is ok to spend because it doesn't technically effect why you bought it, then they will never change.


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## Guest (Sep 14, 2004)

Kheldar said:


> *EVERYONE* Does it make sense that just because someone spent an ungodly amount on a TV that they should get the games that someone else can't because they don't have HD? *NO!*
> 
> If you didn't pay attention to the blackout restrictions , it is your own fault. You were warned at least once, and had access to the blackout restrictions on the website before the season started.
> 
> Anyway, there are up to 14 games played each Sunday, and your local CBS and FOX networks carry at most 4 of them. This still leaves you with around 10 games a week for the 17 week season. Just try getting 170 NFL games for "$200 a year" anywhere else!


Now how can you put the people down that pays for you to have a job by saying that they spent an ungodly amount on a TV? VERY WRONG! As far as you saying that these people were warned, I bet they were warned like D* gave so many people notice that their local channels were moving satellites in the middle of the Olympics! NOT!!! My father-in-law had to wait 5 days before having his equipment updated for this and so many other people were left out in the cold by D* during this time!!

Just try getting 170 NFL games for $200/year anywhere else??? Puhhhhleease!! How can we when D* spends multi-million dollars to keep others out! Trust me, if we could get ST from another source a lot of us would!!! D* is just using another form of extortion again!!!!!!!


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## DCSholtis (Aug 7, 2002)

NFLplaya said:


> Now how can you put the people down that pays for you to have a job by saying that they spent an ungodly amount on a TV? VERY WRONG! As far as you saying that these people were warned, I bet they were warned like D* gave so many people notice that their local channels were moving satellites in the middle of the Olympics! NOT!!! My father-in-law had to wait 5 days before having his equipment updated for this and so many other people were left out in the cold by D* during this time!!
> 
> Just try getting 170 NFL games for $200/year anywhere else??? Puhhhhleease!! How can we when D* spends multi-million dollars to keep others out! Trust me, if we could get ST from another source a lot of us would!!! D* is just using another form of extortion again!!!!!!!


Smells like an E* Troll.......


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## Veander (Aug 15, 2004)

DCSholtis said:


> Smells like an E* Troll.......


Sounds like the truth is all. We all know that if you want Ticket you go to DirecTV. Otherwise most folks shop around for the best prices. Thing is DirecTV has the best prices mostly.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Veander said:


> You don't see the bigger picture of what's happening as bad though?
> 
> For me it's more about making a statement than anything else. Writing letters will happen but I doubt it will have ANY effect. Me dropping the package and not giving them a dime will have more of an effect than my one letter. So despite the wife trying to convince me to get it and be damned with my principles, I am going to do without it until this new blackout system goes away. If it never goes away, then it looks like I will never have it.
> 
> If you keep making excuses why that amount of money is ok to spend because it doesn't technically effect why you bought it, then they will never change.


I don't care for the blackouts either. I think it's stupid and personally I think the 4 networks are 20 years past their usefullness and should just give it up.

But ST is the *only* way to see my team and my fantasy players. Until that changes I'll be paying. Period. It's much cheaper then going to the bar every Sunday.

If I didn't buy things because "of the principle of the thing" I'd probably never buy anything and would be a hermit. Someone gives me what I want at a price I'm willing to pay, I'll pay it. Life is too short. Enjoy it.


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## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

> As far as you saying that these people were warned, I bet they were warned like D* gave so many people notice that their local channels were moving satellites in the middle of the Olympics!


Granted they were not told exactly when the local channels were moving, but everyone whose locals moved recieved at least 3 colorful postcard offering a free upgrade to the triplesat dish for those local channels, and were given over 6 months to get the upgrades. Again, this is a case of people not paying attention, and blaming the company for problems they brought upon themselves by not heeding the multiple postcard notices they received.

Don't blame the company because you didn't read the _multiple_ warnings you were given about this change!


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## Veander (Aug 15, 2004)

bonscott87 said:


> I don't care for the blackouts either. I think it's stupid and personally I think the 4 networks are 20 years past their usefullness and should just give it up.
> 
> But ST is the *only* way to see my team and my fantasy players. Until that changes I'll be paying. Period. It's much cheaper then going to the bar every Sunday.
> 
> If I didn't buy things because "of the principle of the thing" I'd probably never buy anything and would be a hermit. Someone gives me what I want at a price I'm willing to pay, I'll pay it. Life is too short. Enjoy it.


I don't know exactly how to compare ST to other products I might buy, but there is no way I would buy products of quality if they weren't quality, or didn't remain in a quality condition. If I buy a few Sony HT recievers and the last couple start to flake out, you can bet your life I won't buy another. Let's say they even have a feature (like for a while they were the only one in the lower price-range doing the 6.1 "virtual" thing), I still wouldn't buy. You have to stand for something or you'll fall for anything.

That said... my wife is pretty upset I dropped that football package. Oh well, I am certainly thinking about calling DirecTV and telling them the whole situation and my feelings about what should be done. Since they can't do anything I want something for free or a price reduced for me. If I can get it for me, maybe I can get it for others (via reading about it).


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## Veander (Aug 15, 2004)

Kheldar said:


> Granted they were not told exactly when the local channels were moving, but everyone whose locals moved recieved at least 3 colorful postcard offering a free upgrade to the triplesat dish for those local channels, and were given over 6 months to get the upgrades. Again, this is a case of people not paying attention, and blaming the company for problems they brought upon themselves by not heeding the multiple postcard notices they received.
> 
> Don't blame the company because you didn't read the _multiple_ warnings you were given about this change!


You keep telling us about these warnings but I recieved none. I ordered the package online, so my only choice would have been to read the fine print which wasn't actually part of my ordering process. It was back on the ST main page, but that's a moot point. You can't tell me you read the fine print on something that you have read about before. Even courts have ruled against "the fine print" when the business isn't very open about what is involved.


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## Art7220 (Feb 4, 2004)

"If we could get ST from another source, a lot of us would."

Well, good thing I'm here then. Check this out.

www.starchoice.com/english/whatsontv/nfl_sunday_ticket.asp

Along with Expressvu and Direc, this is the third ST source. I'm switching from BEV to SC. Not sure if you need the oval dish for ST though.

The best way to vent your frustration with NFL blackouts, as this package has fewer of them.

-A-


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2004)

Art7220 said:


> Not sure if you need the oval dish for ST though.


ST is on Anik F1 this year, so oval dish only required for HD feeds. Next year, all feeds will probably be on F2, so elliptical or dual dishes will be required.


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## jabroni (Apr 6, 2003)

I just tried to cancel ST and was told that if I did, I would not get a refund!

All I could do was tell them not to auto-renew next year. Let the buyer beware, I guess.


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## TANK (Feb 16, 2003)

Kheldar said:


> Granted they were not told exactly when the local channels were moving, but everyone whose locals moved recieved at least 3 colorful postcard offering a free upgrade to the triplesat dish for those local channels, and were given over 6 months to get the upgrades. Again, this is a case of people not paying attention, and blaming the company for problems they brought upon themselves by not heeding the multiple postcard notices they received.
> 
> Don't blame the company because you didn't read the _multiple_ warnings you were given about this change!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you know how full my mailbox is from those colorful postcards,letters from anybody and everybody.
Why not use the mail box on the receiver to direct certain customers to channel 996 for a detailed message.
Directv has NFLST and cable has local HD channels,when customers decide that NFLST isn't worth the cost due to blackouts that will send people over to cable.

Cable will have NFLST next year and local games on Hd.
I would think Directv would be all over the NFL about this problem of black outs just to keep customers happy.

Just saying SORRY you didn't read the small print is poor customer service.

I'am a 8 year Directv customer and not real happy.


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## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

TANK said:


> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Do you know how full my mailbox is from those colorful postcards,letters from anybody and everybody.
> Why not use the mail box on the receiver to direct certain customers to channel 996 for a detailed message.
> Directv has NFLST and cable has local HD channels,when customers decide that NFLST isn't worth the cost due to blackouts that will send people over to cable.
> ...


You raise a good point about using the mailbox feature of the recievers. We haven't used that feature nearly enough. In fact, many of us forget that all of our recievers have that capability. I will forward that suggestion on to management for future seasons and other sports blackout situations.

And about cable and HD Locals, have you read this press release: http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/aboutus/headline.dsp?id=09_08_2004A
D* will be carrying HD Locals in many markets toward the middle of next year, and will have the capacity to carry most locals in HD in 2007.
Isn't competition grand?


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## Veander (Aug 15, 2004)

jabroni said:


> I just tried to cancel ST and was told that if I did, I would not get a refund!
> 
> All I could do was tell them not to auto-renew next year. Let the buyer beware, I guess.


I called the retention department, but even then I had to get upset with them when the CSR seemed oblivious to what I was saying.


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## Veander (Aug 15, 2004)

Art7220 said:


> "If we could get ST from another source, a lot of us would."
> 
> Well, good thing I'm here then. Check this out.
> 
> ...


Wow, I didn't know there was another choice. I thought this was still DirecTVs by way of contract?


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## scott2020 (Sep 13, 2004)

Veander said:


> Wow, I didn't know there was another choice. I thought this was still DirecTVs by way of contract?


Is that service only available in Canada?


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## Veander (Aug 15, 2004)

scott2020 said:


> Is that service only available in Canada?


Looks like it. I am now wondering what $179 is in US currency. Hmm, just checked and it converts to about $135 US. So if either of those numbers is correct it certainly shows that DirecTV isn't the great provider on the side of the customer while the evil NFL charges and blackouts as it chooses. :lol:


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## TonyM (Aug 14, 2003)

Veander said:


> Looks like it. I am now wondering what $179 is in US currency. Hmm, just checked and it converts to about $135 US. So if either of those numbers is correct it certainly shows that DirecTV isn't the great provider on the side of the customer while the evil NFL charges and blackouts as it chooses. :lol:


NFL ST in the US is a DirectTv exclusive

Rogers & Shaw (the 2 big cable players in Canada) had NFLST last year

ExpressVu & Star Choice have it this year..the one thing to remember with the pricing is Canada adds 15% in taxes.

The only problem right now is ExpressVu (I think) is putting NFLST on their satellite that doesnt reach parts of the US (we're OK here in MN) and you need a new smart card.

StarChoice has no smart card, but their basic package monthly is higher.


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## TonyM (Aug 14, 2003)

Veander said:


> Interestingly I am in an O&O market for CBS here, not an affiliate, and I still had my CBS games blacked out.


It doesnt matter if your CBS is O&O (as WCCO is) or an affiliate (as KEYC in Mankto is)

If its on your local CBS, its blacked out on NFLST..


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Veander said:


> I don't know exactly how to compare ST to other products I might buy, but there is no way I would buy products of quality if they weren't quality, or didn't remain in a quality condition. If I buy a few Sony HT recievers and the last couple start to flake out, you can bet your life I won't buy another. Let's say they even have a feature (like for a while they were the only one in the lower price-range doing the 6.1 "virtual" thing), I still wouldn't buy. You have to stand for something or you'll fall for anything.


Well your analogy doesn't make much sense because obviously I wouldn't buy something that broke all the time. I did this very thing with hard drives. For years I only bought Western Digital. After 2 died on me within a year I now buy Maxtor.

I used to only buy Voodoo video cards. Then they stopped providing what I wanted so then I went Nvidia forever. Then they stopped providing me what I want and now I buy Matrox. Who knows, 2 years from now I might be buying something else again if Matrox doesn't keep up.

So in this case Sunday Ticket still provides *me* what I want at a price I'm willing to pay. If in the future that is no longer the case then I won't pay for it. For *you*, obivously, they no longer provide you what you want at a price you are willing to pay, nothing wrong with that.


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2004)

Kheldar said:


> Granted they were not told exactly when the local channels were moving, but everyone whose locals moved recieved at least 3 colorful postcard offering a free upgrade to the triplesat dish for those local channels, and were given over 6 months to get the upgrades. Again, this is a case of people not paying attention, and blaming the company for problems they brought upon themselves by not heeding the multiple postcard notices they received.
> 
> Don't blame the company because you didn't read the _multiple_ warnings you were given about this change!


OH NO!!! You are wrong! We live in the NRTC area and our local provider was holding out! Don't balme us for the incompetence D* showed in their local providers in the NRTC areas!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Fredfa (Mar 27, 2003)

Re TANK:


TANK said:


> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Do you know how full my mailbox is from those colorful postcards,letters from anybody and everybody.
> Why not use the mail box on the receiver to direct certain customers to channel 996 for a detailed message.....
> Directv has NFLST and cable has local HD channels,when customers decide that NFLST isn't worth the cost due to blackouts that will send people over to cable.
> ...


Let's see:
Cable will *NOT* have NFL ST next season. The DirecTV contract calls for exclusivity through the 2005 season. And based on last week's announcement, it will offer HD LIL to more than half the country (perhaps a *LOT MORE)* by the time the 2005 NFL season begins.
The blackout rules have not changed a bit. But before this year's HD additions by Fox and CBS, the NFL looked the other way while DirecTV allowed everyone to see games.
I am sorry your mail box is so full and you don't take them time or effort to discern what is important and what isn't. But you can't (logically) blame DirecTV because of your laziness or inattention.
No matter how much you whine, it just isn't DirecTV's fault -- it sent you at least *THREE* separate notices. I agree that perhaps an on screen message would also have been nice. But it is not like D* was trying to hide information from you (and as has been noted before, it clearly states the blackout policy on its website.
If you customarily spend $250 a shot and didn't bother to "read the small print" as you put it, I would doubt this is the first unpleasant surprise you have ever encountered.


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## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

NFLPlaya said:


> OH NO!!! You are wrong! We live in the NRTC area and our local provider was holding out! Don't balme us for the incompetence D* showed in their local providers in the NRTC areas!!!!!!!!!!!


I was referring to people who were served directly by D*. I was not referring to the NRTC (or former NRTC) areas. It was your NRTC provider's responsibility to give you that information. You can't blame D*. It was partially because of this kind of incompetence from the NRTC providers that D* ended their contracts.


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## Stevo (Sep 13, 2004)

Fredfa said:


> Cable will *NOT* have NFL ST next season.


Even if it or any other American service did, it would have the exact same games blacked out as D* every week.


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## TANK (Feb 16, 2003)

But you can't (logically) blame DirecTV because of your laziness or inattention.
No matter how much you whine, it just isn't DirecTV's fault -- it sent you at least *THREE* separate notices. I agree that perhaps an on screen message would also have been nice. But it is not like D* was trying to hide information from you (and as has been noted before, it clearly states the blackout policy on its website.
If you customarily spend $250 a shot and didn't bother to "read the small print" as you put it, I would doubt this is the first unpleasant surprise you have ever encountered.[/QUOTE]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not whining.

The problem is Wilson WV 26707 is a white area with no locals.Networks are NY/LA.
But the Steelers are blacked out.Pittsburgh is about 200 miles away on the otherside of the mountains.

According to the small print only the games on NY/LA will be blacked out.
Why would I think Pittsburgh games would be blacked out when DC/Balt is closer to me than Pittsburgh?

A csr told since I had no locals,than no games would be blacked out.

If a csr can't type in your zipcode and give you the right info,don't blame customers for complaining.


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## Stevo (Sep 13, 2004)

TANK said:


> I am not whining.
> 
> The problem is ..... (whining here)
> 
> ...


Ok, and how many times have you been corrected in this thread, or at least read clarifying information in this thread? Here, ill make it big and bold and easy for everyone:

*If your Designated Market Area as determined by Nielsen Media Research is showing a game on CBS and/or FOX then that game will be blacked out on NFL ST even if D* does not provide locals to your area. This is IN ADDITION to the more traditional blackout in which you live in the vicinity of a team and they do not sell out 72 hours before kickoff.*

The CSR didn't read something properly, or you only heard what you wanted to. Argue it all you want, but the bold is true.


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## Guest (Sep 16, 2004)

Kheldar said:


> I was referring to people who were served directly by D*. I was not referring to the NRTC (or former NRTC) areas. It was your NRTC provider's responsibility to give you that information. You can't blame D*. It was partially because of this kind of incompetence from the NRTC providers that D* ended their contracts.


However, D* was ultimately responsible for them! They were providing D* services and if you hired someone to perform services under your name you would be the TOP of the ladder and would be responsible for your employees or outlets!!!! Ultimately, D* IS responsible and showed poor execution in alerting their memebers in NRTC areas. The NRTC is still around and not former as they will be a provider for WildBlue broadband service bundled with D*.


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## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

TANK said:


> I am not whining.
> 
> The problem is Wilson WV 26707 is a white area with no locals.Networks are NY/LA.
> But the Steelers are blacked out.Pittsburgh is about 200 miles away on the otherside of the mountains.
> ...


*Wilson WV 26707* is able to get the *Washington DC - Hagerstown MD* locals thru D*. I don't know who told you that you were in a _white area_, but this is not true. Verify it at: http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/LocalChannelsAction.do
Because you are in the Washington DC - Hagerstown MD DMA, you will get blacked out of all games broadcast on the Washington DC - Hagerstown MD local channels. 
*Call D* and add your local channels!*


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## larrystotler (Jun 6, 2004)

No. The blackout rules are only supposed to apply IF the game is not sold out. The redskins are always sold out, so their games should never be blacked out on locals stations, only on the sunday ticket part, if that applies. As for Wilson, WV having a zip of 26707, I worked for FedEx for 5 years, and I never heard of that township/zipcode. Is it new? Augusta is 26704 and Romney is 26756.

Are you an original P* conversion? If so, that may have something to do with it since you were probably given the choice of the DC locals or keeping the distants.


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## TonyM (Aug 14, 2003)

When I pulled 26707 on Yahoo it says "bayard, WV"..wilson is just down the road but must use the same zip


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## larrystotler (Jun 6, 2004)

Boy, is he way the heck out there. He's almost 150 miles from DC if not further. I also did P* conversions as far wast as mt storm in 2000. Thankfully I didn't have to go that far. Our office was out of Winchester, VA.


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## Guest (Sep 16, 2004)

Veander said:


> Me dropping the package and not giving them a dime will have more of an effect than my one letter. ...I am going to do without it until this new blackout system goes away. If it never goes away, then it looks like I will never have it.


I doubt if you dropping the package will have any affect at all, except for the "cutting off your nose to spite your face" impact. Relatively few people will drop ST because of this problem, and that will not hurt the NFL itself. They already got their money from DirecTV. When the current contract exipires, the NFL can make more money by offering ST to more satellite and cable carriers without making any changes to the blackout rules. The blackout rules are unlikely to change, so you better resign yourself to that.


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## Veander (Aug 15, 2004)

Visitor said:


> I doubt if you dropping the package will have any affect at all, except for the "cutting off your nose to spite your face" impact. Relatively few people will drop ST because of this problem, and that will not hurt the NFL itself. They already got their money from DirecTV. When the current contract exipires, the NFL can make more money by offering ST to more satellite and cable carriers without making any changes to the blackout rules. The blackout rules are unlikely to change, so you better resign yourself to that.


Why don't you sign in to the site before you start talking about who's cutting off whose nose to spite their face...


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## Veander (Aug 15, 2004)

Whether me dropping the package or not has an effect isn't a bother to me. Already after telling people that I did drop my package there are two on this board who said they were dropping theirs. I think jabroni couldn't, but I know he could if he called the retention department. I am goign to call today to get it back though. (yeah, yeah hypocrit, but the wife is giving me no end of grief seriously) I am going to call the retention department and make them understand me.


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## Veander (Aug 15, 2004)

Ok, since I am going into more depth on this topic then needed already I would like to ask a question. 

If I drop locals from my package will I be subject to the blackouts?


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## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

> If I drop locals from my package will I be subject to the blackouts?


*YES*. The blackouts apply to any games played on your locals _regardless of whether or not you subscribe to them_, and _even if D* doesn't carry your local networks_.

Since you can get all of those games on your locals anyway, what is the point?


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## Veander (Aug 15, 2004)

Kheldar said:


> *YES*. The blackouts apply to any games played on your locals _regardless of whether or not you subscribe to them_, and _even if D* doesn't carry your local networks_.
> 
> Since you can get all of those games on your locals anyway, what is the point?


I have to keep thr locals for the other reciever anyway.

One of the problems is I have audio dropouts on one (sometimes others) channel. Pixelation on them all. I am on the phone right now waiting to talk with a CSR about this.

I just have a problem paying the NFL and these affiliates $200 when it's clear that money doesn't off-set the advertising dollar anymore. It should.


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## jabroni (Apr 6, 2003)

Yeah, it doesn't matter if you get the locals or not, what matters is the "game map of affiliate broadcasts", which I found here:

http://www.dbsforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=316161#post316161

If your county or area is in the Cleveland Browns zone, then you lose, as an example.

I thought about calling retention and being an ass (which I am most adept at) but decided to honor their stipulations and keep the package. HOWEVER, I told them no more and to take me off the auto renewal for next year. Never again will I pay for this.


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## torre64 (May 31, 2003)

How do waivers for distant nets apply here? For example I guess because I have a Fox waiver it wasn't blacked out or was I just lucky? I do NOT have a CBS waiver and it was blacked out for their game and I do not have a local team either.


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## onegojoe (Jul 8, 2004)

I have always thought that unless an NFL games are sold out 24 hours before game time the blackout applies.


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## esteg (Aug 27, 2003)

i will not renew ST again,will not pay for games i can't get, that are of interest to me.
also leaves me without favorite teams as i can't get them OTA @ no cable.


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## TANK (Feb 16, 2003)

Steveo

If you want to attack me personaly,then do it like a man.

You have the town and state I live in,set a time and we can talk face to face.

We will see you whines.


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## TonyM (Aug 14, 2003)

onegojoe said:


> I have always thought that unless an NFL games are sold out 24 hours before game time the blackout applies.


Its 72 hours and its only in the home market


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## Veander (Aug 15, 2004)

Alright I have ST back. I know, what a hypocrit, but as I explained my wife was pretty upset with the decision being made without her. I told her I would get it back if DirecTV gave me something in return for this new blackout thing (new to me as I haven't had the ST since two seasons ago). So I have HBO for $2 a month and $20 off my bill for a couple months as a credit. CSR felt bad about it and said there was nothing they could do to change rules made by the NFL and the networks. They did, however, say they hoped it wouldn't always be that way which was pretty interestign to hear a CSR say.

Will I get it in the future? ONly if I am somehow given something to balance what, imo, is a complete dislodge of what this package once was. If not, then I won't get it, but my word is mud at this point.


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## TonyM (Aug 14, 2003)

torre64 said:


> How do waivers for distant nets apply here? For example I guess because I have a Fox waiver it wasn't blacked out or was I just lucky? I do NOT have a CBS waiver and it was blacked out for their game and I do not have a local team either.


Distants do not qualify

Its the CBS & FOX in your designated market area (as definined by Neilsen companies)


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## Veander (Aug 15, 2004)

Oddly I notice that my Cleveland game is on a local here Sunday. My CBS local which, in HD, has audio problems. I am TRYING to get someone to fix the problem but I keep getting disconnecting from the level 2 Tech Support today.


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## Msguy (May 23, 2003)

if there is a law to be made to screw people out of seeing a game it seems like the satellite company finds a way to put it into effect. I am seriously thinking about next year not subscribing to NFL Sunday Ticket if I can't see all the games on the Sunday ticket package. I've been a subscriber to Sunday Ticket every year i've had Direc TV (Since 1997) without any Blackout problems then all of a sudden this season i get blacked out of games. Send Direc Tv a message that they would receive loud and clear. Just don't subscribe to Sunday ticket anymore. We pay them for the service we should receive 100% of that service. i don't care if games are on in my local TV market or not. It's just pure ridiculous and i think ALL Sports Blackouts should be done away with.


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## spanishannouncetable (Apr 23, 2002)

Msguy said:


> if there is a law to be made to screw people out of seeing a game it seems like the satellite company finds a way to put it into effect. I am seriously thinking about next year not subscribing to NFL Sunday Ticket if I can't see all the games on the Sunday ticket package. I've been a subscriber to Sunday Ticket every year i've had Direc TV (Since 1997) without any Blackout problems then all of a sudden this season i get blacked out of games.


It is not DirecTV's fault.
*It is NOT Directv's fault.*
IT IS NOT DIRECTV'S FAULT !

Blame your greedy local CBS and Fox affiliates, or the CBS and Fox network douchebags, or the NFL itself. Directv is just a program delivery service, not the content creator. They only enforce the rules as handed down by the NFL. Back in 97, the rules were *DIFFERENT*. Over the years the rules have become more and more restrictive and Directv has been given 2 choices - drop NFLST completely or pay more for it and enforce more blackout provisions. So now you have some games blacked out. Life's tough, wear a helmet.



Msguy said:


> Send Direc Tv a message that they would receive loud and clear. Just don't subscribe to Sunday ticket anymore. We pay them for the service we should receive 100% of that service. i don't care if games are on in my local TV market or not. It's just pure ridiculous and i think ALL Sports Blackouts should be done away with.


Didn't you read any posts in this thread ? We all agree that the blackouts SUUUUUUUUCKKKK. I'm sure Directv would love to sell NFLST for $99 without any blackouts at all, *but it ain't gonna happen*. If the games on your locals are really all you want to see anyway, drop the Ticket - you don't need it. If you need to "move" to get the locals that carry the team you want to see, do that and drop the Ticket. If you want have every other game available on Sunday afternoons and the price of the Ticket is within your reach, then get it and enjoy the football.

The good old days are long gone. It's time to let them go 

FWIW, I've had Directv since '96 and have never had NFLST. I *DO* understand how it works though. I just hate to see Directv knocked around for no good reason.

PS - My locals and distant nets give me 7 games to choose from this Sunday afternoon without a NFLST subscription. I call it "the poor man's Sunday Ticket"


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## Veander (Aug 15, 2004)

This is the consumer-driven industry bud, get used to people blaming content providers. Bottom line is that Canada's one satellite company offers it for about $135 (converted to US). SO this isn't the poor little wittle satellite company that's just doing it's bestest to provide for the loving customers... People get off this "it's not DirecTV's fault" soap box. No one truly cares who's fault it is. We want it fixed and what better place to start that the next in command. Ever hear of a chain of command?!

I AM complaining about the whole mess. In smaller caps I might add. In principle this is just stupid. My $220 should pay for the lost advertising dollar to these silly affiliates. 

Thing is I am one of those who has least to compain about since I get the HD OTA anyway. The principle alone, however, is far worth fighting for in my view.


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## spanishannouncetable (Apr 23, 2002)

Veander said:


> This is the consumer-driven industry bud, get used to people blaming content providers. Bottom line is that Canada's one satellite company offers it for about $135 (converted to US). SO this isn't the poor little wittle satellite company that's just doing it's bestest to provide for the loving customers... People get off this "it's not DirecTV's fault" soap box. No one truly cares who's fault it is. We want it fixed and what better place to start that the next in command. Ever hear of a chain of command?!


I think you care whose fault it is, or you wouldn't be posting in this thread 

Ever hear of Rupert Murdoch ? The man who runs both the Fox Network AND Directv ? Is that high enough on the chain of command for you to complain to ?

HE certainly could have given Directv a pass on the blackouts, except that he has to answer to - you guessed it - the Fox affiliate station owners, who pouted about their viewers enjoying NFLST a little too much and not watching their commercials. Rupert's choice was simple enough -

- help NFLST subs by lifting blackouts and lose many millions of $$$ pissing off the local station owners
OR
- upset a relative handful of $200 a year NFLST subs by blacking out a couple of games a week.

Murdoch isn't a billionaire because he's stupid.

And why bother converting Canadian NFLST rates ? It's now against the law for American viewers to have Canadian satellite subscriptions, isn't it ? I keed, I keed 



Veander said:


> I AM complaining about the whole mess. In smaller caps I might add. In principle this is just stupid. My $220 should pay for the lost advertising dollar to these silly affiliates.


The affiliates don't receive and don't want any money from NFLST. The want their advertising market protected. No matter how much money was offered, local broadcasters only want to preserve their antiquated business model. Charging high ad rates without having to qualify whether commercials work any more is all your local TV station owners understand and they will fight to the death to protect themselves.



Veander said:


> Thing is I am one of those who has least to compain about since I get the HD OTA anyway. The principle alone, however, is far worth fighting for in my view.


Then fight the RIGHT enemy. Call and write the GM's of your local Fox and CBS affiliates, ***** at Rupert Murdoch and Les Moonves, contact Paul Tagliabue and all the NFL owners and tell them what you think of their blackout policies. They won't care, but it might make you feel better about it :sure:


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## Veander (Aug 15, 2004)

spanishannouncetable said:


> I think you care whose fault it is, or you wouldn't be posting in this thread
> 
> ...
> 
> Then fight the RIGHT enemy. Call and write the GM's of your local Fox and CBS affiliates, ***** at Rupert Murdoch and Les Moonves, contact Paul Tagliabue and all the NFL owners and tell them what you think of their blackout policies. They won't care, but it might make you feel better about it :sure:


I actually don't care whose fault it is. I wasn't trying to find the highest in command. I was trying to say one should complain to all levels, but the point is to complain. If there is a problem with a product, someone better fix it. Seems enough people in here are upset about it. Spending our time on the who is rediculous. Write letters and call everyone involved. These blackouts are simply rediculous.

The bottom line is how many folks this is hurting and what kind of effect it has a year from now (or more). You can say these people won't care but you are not in possession of what it takes to change things. It works when everyone who cares doesn't have a "give up cuz it won't matter" mentality.

At this rate it's clear Sunday Ticket will not live up to their advertising of "100+ HD games". Granted the asterick afer that advertising says the amount varies, but in my opinion this is a blatant problem.

If I buy something from a store around here and it doesn't work like I wanted something gets done. Maybe I have to go to the main company and not the company from which it was purchased, but something gets done.

Oh and by my comment regarding the price of Canadian ST offerings, I was trying to get across the idea that it's CHEAPER there. How can one get Canadian service if you aren't in Canada? I haven't the slightest clue why you didn't understand what I meant. It's CHEAPER there. Same servic but cheaper. Cheaper. By almost $100. That's shows that DirecTV isn't some blameless company. They are raising the price on a product when the vaule of it is decreasing.


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## jabroni (Apr 6, 2003)

Personally, I complain on a daily basis. To virtually every service provider that I contact, my boss, my boss'es boss, my wife, my state senator and rep, my national reps and sens, etc., etc. While this gives me a measure of personal satisfaction, it RARELY (if ever) changes anything.

What I have found is the ONLY way to make a difference in our mixed up world is to hit people in the pocketbook. For example, I was dissillusioned with the legacy phone companies service and pricing, so I turned them off completely and went with Vonage. I will never go back and the telco's will not get any more of my money.

My State reps and sens have screwed up royally over the past two years and they will lose votes in my house this year.

If Direct can't change the blackout rules next year, they won't see my 200 bucks....I think you can see my reasoning. Sales figures, unfortunately, are the holy grail in these United States.


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## bjlc (Aug 20, 2004)

let me say that on other boards, other D* sunday ticket subscribers have been able to cancel and one says that he is getting the TICKET FOR FREE THIS YEAR. One other says that he canceled and got 3 months of showtime for free. Do not take No you cannot cancel for a final word. This doesn't fly. Plus Profootball talk .com is talking about a major general law suit. Where as we all could be partners in the lawsuit against D* and the NFL Ticket. Do not take no for an answer. This is the only way D* is going to give you your moneies worth. If you paid up to $220 for the Ticket you should get all $220 worth of football and not some runaround. And no, its NOT IN BOLD THAT THE RULES WERE CHANGED THIS YEAR.


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## cboyd (Sep 16, 2004)

This is a class action lawyer's dream. I for one am signing up as a plaintiff.


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## DCSholtis (Aug 7, 2002)

What a waste of court time.......


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## cboyd (Sep 16, 2004)

Easy to say that if you do not live in an area where you cannot pick up local stations to see your team. One thing's for sure D* will not receive my 4th payment on the automatic billing plan. Nor will they receive any further basic payments after this month. I just found out I can get local stations on the Dish Network. So long D* and I hope CS is somewhat better with the Dish. Any thing would be an improvement.


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## Veander (Aug 15, 2004)

bjlc said:


> let me say that on other boards, other D* sunday ticket subscribers have been able to cancel and one says that he is getting the TICKET FOR FREE THIS YEAR. One other says that he canceled and got 3 months of showtime for free. Do not take No you cannot cancel for a final word. This doesn't fly. Plus Profootball talk .com is talking about a major general law suit. Where as we all could be partners in the lawsuit against D* and the NFL Ticket. Do not take no for an answer. This is the only way D* is going to give you your moneies worth. If you paid up to $220 for the Ticket you should get all $220 worth of football and not some runaround. And no, its NOT IN BOLD THAT THE RULES WERE CHANGED THIS YEAR.


This doesn't surprise me! I have told all of my friends (who aren't into HD or NFL ST) and they can't believe they are blacking out games this way.

I am going to call back and get more free. Dernit...

What's funny to me is this is about advertising. I wish there was a way to make certain local folks could get in their advertising when I watch games from out of town. Like if I watch a Brown's game on ST I would get local MInnesota commercials. I wouldn't mind in the slightest and would actually appreciate the work being put in to give me commercials of local interest. This is the kind of compromise they have to come up with.


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## Veander (Aug 15, 2004)

jabroni said:


> Personally, I complain on a daily basis. To virtually every service provider that I contact, my boss, my boss'es boss, my wife, my state senator and rep, my national reps and sens, etc., etc. While this gives me a measure of personal satisfaction, it RARELY (if ever) changes anything.
> 
> What I have found is the ONLY way to make a difference in our mixed up world is to hit people in the pocketbook. For example, I was dissillusioned with the legacy phone companies service and pricing, so I turned them off completely and went with Vonage. I will never go back and the telco's will not get any more of my money.
> 
> ...


So if you buy a piece of electronics from Best BUy and it doesn't give you what you thought it did, you just sit there without that feature? Or do you take it back? I don't know of a good comparison to prove that this ST situation is wrong. Maybe the fact that every non-involved person I have told (granted I told it in a biased way) seems to think I am getting screwed.


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## bjlc (Aug 20, 2004)

let us know what happens when you call back..


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## esteg (Aug 27, 2003)

I emailed GB Packers about being Blacked Out on ST . Got a call back from Packers today saying that they do not set policy ,they contacted the NFL and were told the NFL and DTV are in talks about the black out issue. Keep the pressure on!!!


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Veander said:


> Oh and by my comment regarding the price of Canadian ST offerings, I was trying to get across the idea that it's CHEAPER there. How can one get Canadian service if you aren't in Canada? I haven't the slightest clue why you didn't understand what I meant. It's CHEAPER there. Same servic but cheaper. Cheaper. By almost $100. That's shows that DirecTV isn't some blameless company. They are raising the price on a product when the vaule of it is decreasing.


FYI that the price in Canada is cheaper because it's not exclusive most likely. Pretty much every cable system up there has had ST for years and the sat companies are now getting it too.

And it's quite easy to get Canadian Satellite in the U.S. Called BEV. Many HD fanatics get it because you can get all the networks in HD and many more that aren't carried by any but Voom. Plus hockey night in Canada in HD ain't bad either (if they play hockey again that is, eh?)


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## thumper (Sep 19, 2004)

Can someone please explain to me where I can find the details of how the NFL & the networks determine local station markets for a particular team?

I'm in Orlando and according to the DirecTV web site, I'm in the local market for both Tampa and Jacksonville. The Tampa one seems sort of reasonable (~75 miles) but suggesting we're in the Jacksonville market is completely ridiculous. It's over 150 miles away?


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## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

> Can someone please explain to me where I can find the details of how the NFL & the networks determine local station markets for a particular team?
> 
> I'm in Orlando and according to the DirecTV web site, I'm in the local market for both Tampa and Jacksonville. The Tampa one seems sort of reasonable (~75 miles) but suggesting we're in the Jacksonville market is completely ridiculous. It's over 150 miles away?


You can only be "in the market" for one city's local channels. If you are referring to the website that tells you which markets you get "Grade A" or "Grade B" signals from, that information doesn't apply.

Which city's local channels do you get from DirecTV? Only that city causes blackouts from carrying games on the local CBS and FOX networks.

If you don't get locals currently from DirecTV, check your local channel market here: http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/LocalChannelsAction.do
This page will tell you which ONE market you are eligible for, and this is the only market that causes NFL ST blackouts (except for, of course, the 72-hour rule).


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## thumper (Sep 19, 2004)

Kheldar said:


> You can only be "in the market" for one city's local channels. If you are referring to the website that tells you which markets you get "Grade A" or "Grade B" signals from, that information doesn't apply.
> 
> Which city's local channels do you get from DirecTV? Only that city causes blackouts from carrying games on the local CBS and FOX networks.
> 
> ...


This is exactly the part that doesn't make any sense to me.

If I go to the segment of the DirecTV site that shows which local market channels are available to me, it shows that I'm eligible for (and I receive) the Orlando local channels. I have an OTA antenna and becuase of distance cannot receive OTA from any other market.

However when I go to look at the blackout Info page at D* (32835)

http://www.directvsports.com/asp/active/Blackout_Info.asp

I'm told that I'm in the local market for Tampa and Jacksonville. This doesn't make any sense to me at all. While the Tampa thing is a little fuzzy I can live with the old NFL ruling of the 100 mile DMA ring around the city as the draw area for that market. But the stuff from Jacksonville just doesn't make any sense to me.

Ridiculously, if I moved 3 miles east into the next zip code I'd be eligible for Tampa but still blacked out of Jacksonville. I can't seem to find any rhyme or reason to this. This, despite the fact that I can still only receive broadcast channels from Orlando no matter what technique I use.


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## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

thumper,
That doesn't mean that the Jacksonville local channels have anything to do with your blackouts on the NFL ST. That only means that, since the Jaguars are technically a "home team" also, that they would follow the same 72-hour blackout rule for everyone on your area:


> A regular-season, Sunday afternoon home team game will be blacked out in a home team's territory if the game fails to sell out at least 72 hours before the game. If it is blacked out on your local broadcast station, it will also be blacked out in your area on NFL SUNDAY TICKET™. Each stadium's local blackout area is defined by the broadcast signal of the local affiliate carrying the game, not by the mileage surrounding the stadium.


So if a Jaguars game sells out and that games isn't played on the Orlando-Daytona local channels, you will get the game. If it doesn't sell out, you won't get it, even on the Orlando-Daytona locals. If it does sell out and Orlando-Daytona local channels aren't carrying it, look for it in the NFL ST channel range.

Good luck!


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## thumper (Sep 19, 2004)

Kheldar said:


> thumper,
> That doesn't mean that the Jacksonville local channels have anything to do with your blackouts on the NFL ST. That only means that, since the Jaguars are technically a "home team" also, that they would follow the same 72-hour blackout rule for everyone on your area:
> 
> So if a Jaguars game sells out and that games isn't played on the Orlando-Daytona local channels, you will get the game. If it doesn't sell out, you won't get it, even on the Orlando-Daytona locals. If it does sell out and Orlando-Daytona local channels aren't carrying it, look for it in the NFL ST channel range.
> ...


Let me clarify the question. I understand how the NFL market blackout rules, especially the 72 hour rule work. They haven't change much for quite some time.

The question is how does the NFL choose what the local market area for a particular team is? How can one location, 75 miles away from one team, and 150 miles from the other be considered to be in the local market for both teams? Again, this is more an NFL rules question vs. a D* question.


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## jabroni (Apr 6, 2003)

Veander said:


> So if you buy a piece of electronics from Best BUy and it doesn't give you what you thought it did, you just sit there without that feature? Or do you take it back? I don't know of a good comparison to prove that this ST situation is wrong. Maybe the fact that every non-involved person I have told (granted I told it in a biased way) seems to think I am getting screwed.


That is not the best analogy to use as I usually completely and thoroughly research the items I get a BB!

However, BB will refund my money even if I didn't use it.

I can't get a refund from Direct even though I have tried repeatedly. I got to watch the Brown in HD for a littel while yesterday as the blackout was not enforced until one of the early games ended....sigh.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

thumper said:


> Let me clarify the question. I understand how the NFL market blackout rules, especially the 72 hour rule work. They haven't change much for quite some time.
> 
> The question is how does the NFL choose what the local market area for a particular team is? How can one location, 75 miles away from one team, and 150 miles from the other be considered to be in the local market for both teams? Again, this is more an NFL rules question vs. a D* question.


The non-sellout rule for blackouts is based on your DMA. Any DMA that happens to be within 75 miles of the stadium qualifies as "home market". So if you are in the DMA next to Jacksonville and if even part of one county in your DMA falls within that 75 miles (even if you personally live 200 miles away) then your entire DMA is considered home market for that team and subject to non-sellout blackouts.

A good example is in Michigan. The Lions are obviously in the Detroit DMA. But Lansing, Saginaw and Toledo DMA's are all within 75 miles of the stadium and subject to non-sellout blackouts as well. My DMA is Grand Rapids and no part of it is within 75 miles so we are never subject to blackout for the Lions in event of a non-sellout. Like I would want to watch the Lions anyway. 

Note that these non-sellout rules have been around since the 70's.


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## thumper (Sep 19, 2004)

bonscott87 said:


> The non-sellout rule for blackouts is based on your DMA. Any DMA that happens to be within 75 miles of the stadium qualifies as "home market". So if you are in the DMA next to Jacksonville and if even part of one county in your DMA falls within that 75 miles (even if you personally live 200 miles away) then your entire DMA is considered home market for that team and subject to non-sellout blackouts.
> 
> A good example is in Michigan. The Lions are obviously in the Detroit DMA. But Lansing, Saginaw and Toledo DMA's are all within 75 miles of the stadium and subject to non-sellout blackouts as well. My DMA is Grand Rapids and no part of it is within 75 miles so we are never subject to blackout for the Lions in event of a non-sellout. Like I would want to watch the Lions anyway.
> 
> Note that these non-sellout rules have been around since the 70's.


Scott, I fully understand all of that and have been familiar with the 72-hour blacout rule for many-many years. But the description of DMA's, counties, and blackouts isn't matching up with what DirecTV reports and implements.

I live in Orange County in a zip code that; according to D* is in the home market area for both Tampa (75 miles) and Jacksonville (150+miles). If I enter the zip code of a friend who lives about 5 miles east of me in the same city and county, that location is not in the local market area for Tampa but is still in the local market area for Jacksonville.

I can't figure out how this can possible make any sense unless the DMA's that the NFL uses are manipulated and stretched until they hit the desired population number for a market.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

I can't say, but the NFL will do just about anything. What I would suggest is that you contact the Jaguars organization and find out the reasoning. DirecTV will just tell you what they have been. By getting the Jaguars involved they can be your advocates. It's either a database issue at DirecTV that could be wrong or you are truly in the Jaguars home market for whatever messed up reason they have. Good luck.


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## jazmann (Mar 21, 2004)

O.K. heres what I got from LISA at Directv. Sorry and thank you for supporting Directv! What the [email protected]#&!?!? BUT, the previous DTV rep in the same e-mail quoted: 

"Every Sunday, we offer four of the most exciting games on enhanced viewing channels (channels 702-705)"

Well they did not NOT live up to this on sunday. They only offered me THREE enhanced games. Is this viable ammunition? He did'nt say "UP TO three games" or "Exluding local games". So what do all of you all think? Any lawyers out there?


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Please.....


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## DCSholtis (Aug 7, 2002)

jazmann said:


> O.K. heres what I got from LISA at Directv. Sorry and thank you for supporting Directv! What the [email protected]#&!?!? BUT, the previous DTV rep in the same e-mail quoted:
> 
> "Every Sunday, we offer four of the most exciting games on enhanced viewing channels (channels 702-705)"
> 
> Well they did not NOT live up to this on sunday. They only offered me THREE enhanced games. Is this viable ammunition? He did'nt say "UP TO three games" or "Exluding local games". So what do all of you all think? Any lawyers out there?


 :lol: :rolling: Yeah riiiiiiiiiiiiight......


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## DizzyDean (Sep 23, 2004)

It seems to me that if one was going to spend $200.00 on something that they would do some homework on it and not assume it was going to be the same as last year. I know that I work hard for my money and spending 2 bills on something is not a light decision (I have to convince the wife before it even crosses my mind) :lol: I think a lesson is to be learned here for some. Research first, don't cry. Not cry now and look for a way out of your laziness and stupidity. Just a thought.


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## Veander (Aug 15, 2004)

DizzyDean said:


> It seems to me that if one was going to spend $200.00 on something that they would do some homework on it and not assume it was going to be the same as last year. I know that I work hard for my money and spending 2 bills on something is not a light decision (I have to convince the wife before it even crosses my mind) :lol: I think a lesson is to be learned here for some. Research first, don't cry. Not cry now and look for a way out of your laziness and stupidity. Just a thought.


Like you read the new rules. And if you did it was probably initiated by a message sent to you. One no new customer would have recieved. In your wonderful world everyone gets walked over by any company or person and keeps shut because they read advertising not license agreements.

I have spoken with several CSRs and they ALL agreed that it's their biggest call right now and they ALL agreed it sucks (I said it sucks and they said, "yes, I agree.") Maybe in the future if there are any changes, these whiners will be the reason and not people like you who apparently do anything about any situation.

Aside from all that, you are certainly just trolling here and I am the response to it. Figures I'd bite.  :lol:

Ok, I just discovered you ARE a DirecTV employee, or so you claim. So here I have a company I am paying money to per month with an employee harassing me on the internet. Maybe not personally, but indirectly I was called lazy and stupid. Wow, let me find your name and talk with the company about this how about it? 
V


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

With all this bull**** surrounding the ST, it's no wonder why people hacked DirecTV. Note: I do not do that; I do not advocate that. I'm just saying that these asinine blackout rules were perhaps the single, largest reason why people hacked DirecTV's access cards.


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## Veander (Aug 15, 2004)

Past tense thankfully. If you don't think that people stealing the signal causes bandwidth issues, then... well, i don't knwo if it did, but anyway, I am glad folks can't do it anymore.


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## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

> With all this bull**** surrounding the ST, it's no wonder why people hacked DirecTV. Note: I do not do that; I do not advocate that. I'm just saying that these asinine blackout rules were perhaps the single, largest reason why people hacked DirecTV's access cards.


*Yet another loudmouth unencumbered by the facts.*
People were hacking DirecTV _long_ before the new blackout rules.
And the new P4 cards haven't been hacked on a wide scale yet.


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## Jaded13 (Sep 6, 2004)

Lord Vader said:


> With all this bull**** surrounding the ST, it's no wonder why people hacked DirecTV. Note: I do not do that; I do not advocate that. I'm just saying that these asinine blackout rules were perhaps the single, largest reason why people hacked DirecTV's access cards.


Lets get something straight right now b-4 you slam D for the blackout rules...D does NOT set those rules they just follow the guidelines mandated by the NFL franchise and the local (CBS/FOX) affiliates . Period Why would any company make a decision to limit what is available thought a package they sell ?


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## Veander (Aug 15, 2004)

Jaded13 said:


> Lets get something straight right now b-4 you slam D for the blackout rules...D does NOT set those rules they just follow the guidelines mandated by the NFL franchise and the local (CBS/FOX) affiliates . Period Why would any company make a decision to limit what is available thought a package they sell ?


We've had that straight for a while. Read the thread why don't you. Obviously it isn't D* making the rules. However, they are the ones distributing it and unless I see this new rule change in big bold print somewhere, they are responsible for misleading their customers. You can cry all you like about D* being innocent, but with the volume of calls D* is getting from this, I would say it's just not so. They certainly aren't doing this to hurt themselves, but they kept it on the down-low, that's for sure. I am not goign to keep repeating myself in here, anyway. This topic is dead and with the advent of D* CSRs joining this forum and openly putting folks down, I am through with the discussion (I have already called everyone and complained).


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## cboyd (Sep 16, 2004)

It's really amazing that when I called to cancel my entire DirecTV account that I was offered a refund of half the cost of ST to stay with DirecTV. What's more amazing is that when I refused that offer, I was offered ST for free this year. I had already made up my mind to switch to Dish so that I could get local programming to watch my local team so I cancelled anyway. I live in a rural area where unless you install a tower antenna you will not receive a clear picture for local stations and DirecTV chose not to offer local programming so I had no choice if I wanted to watch the local team. ST was great until the new blackout rules. DirecTV is losing customers over this debacle.


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## alebowgm (Jun 12, 2004)

Ok, I havent read the entire thread, it is rather large so this may have been put out there already.

Why doesnt DTV just go and impose the local affiliates feed on top of the 700 feed. What I mean by this is if you want to watch (for example) Miami vs. New York and it is on channel 708 and your local CBS Affiliate is channel 4, then the feed for Channel 4 (or whatever the 800 or 900 station is on old 3rd gen and lower recievers) gets put ontop of the 708 feed, so the local affiliate can have its advertising played on the station? 

I think this would make everyone happy...


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## Veander (Aug 15, 2004)

alebowgm said:


> Ok, I havent read the entire thread, it is rather large so this may have been put out there already.
> 
> Why doesnt DTV just go and impose the local affiliates feed on top of the 700 feed. What I mean by this is if you want to watch (for example) Miami vs. New York and it is on channel 708 and your local CBS Affiliate is channel 4, then the feed for Channel 4 (or whatever the 800 or 900 station is on old 3rd gen and lower recievers) gets put ontop of the 708 feed, so the local affiliate can have its advertising played on the station?
> 
> I think this would make everyone happy...


You're far too intelligent apparently. Heheh It's a wonderful idea, but obviously it would take to much programming or something. It woudl make everyone shut up about this, especially me.


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

Kheldar said:


> *Yet another loudmouth unencumbered by the facts.*


Put a sock in it, young one. I've been around the block longer than you can possibly imagine and am far from unaware of the facts, blackout rules and otherwise.


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## Veander (Aug 15, 2004)

Lord Vader said:


> Put a sock in it, young one. I've been around the block longer than you can possibly imagine and am far from unaware of the facts, blackout rules and otherwise.


I can imagine a very old person, so I don't knwo about that, but I do wonder about your original comment. I wouldn't doubt it was the original blackouts that may have pushed some into thinking about it or doing it. However, truly going over the edge and breaking the law can't just be initiated by a blackout rule that effects very few folks. Only folks that would be effected are those cities that don't support a sports team - thus a team not selling out regularly. This was the case with Penguins hockey the one year I tried it (about 5-6 years ago). I was living in Cleveland, which for some reason, was considered a local under the Center Ice rules. Anyway, I did get to see a fair amount of the games, but that's about the only scenario I can imagine where the original/normal blackout rules would apply to your comment. I am completely speculating or thinking out loud.

I didn't think the newer DirecTV systems were hackable, but if they are I would certainly ask that people never go for that deal. All it does is make everyone suffer down the road, what with bandwidth and such.


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## alebowgm (Jun 12, 2004)

Or why can't they just setup a way to have the local station that is airing the program on a 700 station like 720, blackout the game that is on in the lower 700's if it needs to be that way. You can't honestly tell me that DTV can't come up with a way for its system to automatically output the CBS or FOX affiliate on a secondary station. 

I just think it is the logical answer. This would work especially well for those who dont have their locals offered yet by DTV yet DTV has an uplink from them...


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## Veander (Aug 15, 2004)

I completely agree. I am sure there is some technological roadblock, though if not, then I don't know what's stopping them.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Uhhh, not sure what you guys are really trying to say here. If DirecTV carries your locals then the game (while blacked out on ST) *is* available on your local channel number. You don't gain anything by them trying to map the channel over the top of the "70X" channel. If you guys are simply saying you don't like to have to tune out of the 700's then simply setup a favorites list to have both your locals and the 700's. Problem solved.

If DirecTV doesn't carry your locals then there is no way to get the game with DirecTV no matter what.


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## Veander (Aug 15, 2004)

Shuffling channels is surely a pain, though it really isn't the crux of the argument I suppose.


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## leonardo10 (Sep 26, 2004)

I didn't have time to look through all the posts on this but regarding blackouts, some of you had said they don't understand why they are being blacked out if they pay the extra money. Blackout rules vary for each sport but for this topic, the NFL blackout rule is in effect for all broadcasts which are owned by the NFL.

A game must be sold out 72 hours before kick off for local teams if you are a within that market using DirecTV or Regular TV. If the game is not sold out and your market is within a 75 mile radius of the stadium, your game will be blacked out. Case in point...The Chargers in San Diego do not sell out Qualcomm Stadium 72 hours before kick off so the game is blacked out on CBS and DirecTV in San Diego and Los Angeles. Why LA too? Because the LA TV market falls within a 75 mile radius of the stadium. The rule is in place to protect that NFL team so that they could sell more tickets. And yes, its an NFL rule.

The FCC version of the blackout rule applies more to MLB, NBA and NHL to prevent an out of market station to broadcast the same game as a local station is broadcasting to prevent duplication. So if the Lakers are on KCAL or FSN West and TNT has it as their national game, TNT is obligated to show a different game in the LA market or to be blacked out while the game is in progress.

I'm sure someone already posted this but I thought, what the heck


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## Veander (Aug 15, 2004)

The way it works for Sunday Ticket NOW is that if a game is on your local broadcast (regardless of whether they are local teams being played) it's going to be blacked out on your Sunday Ticket channels. If you get the local channels, then you simply must turn to those channels to see those games. For those who are close to their network towers, like me, this isn't really a situation where you really don't get to see football games. The problem is mostly folks who have situations where they dont' get those locals (for whatever reason). They are still blacked out thus nothing. You are describing the old blackout rules, unless I didn't follow you.

Sincerely,

V


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

With the price people pay for the ST, DirecTV should be given a little leeway by the NFL, maybe even a small exemption. What really is asinine is that if your local team is carried on the HD NFL channels, it's also supposedly blacked out, forcing you to watch that game on your local OTA channel, which is very likely not an HD one. With DirecTV pushing their HD channels so much, why make it impossible to watch your own team's game on HD?


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## Stevo (Sep 13, 2004)

> With the price people pay for the ST, DirecTV should be given a little leeway by the NFL


Its the local affiliates that are exercising their rights to do the blackouts. If you have extraordinary circumstances(cant get ota locals or poor low power locals or something) contact your local affiliate and its possible they will contact DTV and allow games to be shown. Its the affiliates exercising their rights to enforce these blackouts - they're the ones you can ultimately pin this on.


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

starrsrg said:


> Well today has revealed just how little Directv cares about our business. After being happy subscribers for over 3 years, we come to realize that our Sunday ticket subscription isn't worth a hill of beans. Our local channels are not yet provided by Directv and we will need to add a separate dish to receive them when they are available. Our local fox affiliate is so behind the times that they aren't broadcasting a HD feed. I was really looking forward to the 100 games in HD but now I think it will be more like 25. It is completely rediculous to see NFL games blacked out in Boise Idaho. I have always known the networks to be greedy and prohibit satellite customers from receiving their money's worth. However, the fact that Directv never mentioned the new blackout rules makes it even worse. Directv is also a greedy company, and I will no longer recommend them to anybody.


Cancel DTV!


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

cdharris said:


> I didn't get a letter or any other warning that ST would be any different this year than last year. The fact is that I don't have a real Fox local affiliate so I wouldn't have worried about it anyway. If DircecTV had warned me, before they started automatically billing me for the renewal, that they were not going to let me have any games, either in SD or HD, being shown on the Fox station 110 miles away, regardless of whether or not I can receive it, I most certainly would not have subscribed. I have absolutely no use for ST if I can't get the few games I care about and am going to demand a refund.


Sell your dumb HDTV. You desrve this because HDTV won't mainstream for 10 years. This is funny!


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## alebowgm (Jun 12, 2004)

Well the 70x overmap would work for those whom already have their locals, I figured it was mostly an alternative for those who dont have their locals upbeamed at this time...


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## leonardo10 (Sep 26, 2004)

I see what some of you are saying. Is the real problem that DTv is not carrying your locals in your area or is it you arent paying extra for the locals? If you pay the extra couple bucks to get your locals, does it matter if you watch it on the NFL package or your local CBS or Fox station? Some of you have said the signal is bad when you have to watch it locally which leads me to believe you are not paying the extra money for locals and are still using an antenna. In any case, you have to remember, there is an NFL blackout rule and an FCC blackout rule. If DTV is blacking out the game and its not because of your local team, its the FCC rule in effect to block duplication of shows on different channels as the FCC feels the local affiliate should be given the airtime/commercial time for the broadcast.

As far as HDTV, CBS claims to be broadcasting the game in HDTV. Does it not work when using Dtv on the local CBS channel? Does it only work with the NFL in HD? Just curious.


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## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

> As far as HDTV, CBS claims to be broadcasting the game in HDTV. Does it not work when using Dtv on the local CBS channel? Does it only work with the NFL in HD? Just curious.


Unless you are in LA or New York markets, or get those channels with waivers, the rest of the locals are not broadcast in HD (although that will come to several markets in mid-2005).


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## cboyd (Sep 16, 2004)

leonardo10 said:


> I see what some of you are saying. Is the real problem that DTv is not carrying your locals in your area or is it you arent paying extra for the locals? If you pay the extra couple bucks to get your locals, does it matter if you watch it on the NFL package or your local CBS or Fox station? Some of you have said the signal is bad when you have to watch it locally which leads me to believe you are not paying the extra money for locals and are still using an antenna. In any case, you have to remember, there is an NFL blackout rule and an FCC blackout rule. If DTV is blacking out the game and its not because of your local team, its the FCC rule in effect to block duplication of shows on different channels as the FCC feels the local affiliate should be given the airtime/commercial time for the broadcast.
> 
> As far as HDTV, CBS claims to be broadcasting the game in HDTV. Does it not work when using Dtv on the local CBS channel? Does it only work with the NFL in HD? Just curious.


That's fine if you can get the locals on Dtv in your area. Dtv does not offer locals in my area and I cannot get reception OTA.


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## Stevo (Sep 13, 2004)

cboyd said:


> That's fine if you can get the locals on Dtv in your area. Dtv does not offer locals in my area and I cannot get reception OTA.


Then contact your local affiliate, and ask them to talk to DTV about removing the blackout.


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## TwinsFan (Sep 30, 2004)

I am one of the people affected by the Sunday Ticket blackouts because I live about 100 miles from my "local" affilliates, which are not carried by DirecTV. The nearest CBS station can be received with a very good antenna and/or signal booster, but the picture is snowy and unreliable. The nearest Fox station is low-power and cannot be received at all over the air. People here either have cable tv for the locals or they are sat subscribers and get the networks from NYC and/or LA from DirecTV. Even though we cannot get the local CBS and Fox affiliates, the games carried by those stations are blacked out over Sunday Ticket this season.

Contrary to what some posters have said, those of us here who have had ST for several seasons were NOT notified in any manner that blackouts would be enforced this year. There were no such blackouts here in past seasons.

In any case, I and several others have contacted DirecTV customer service numerous times to explain the situation. The CS reps have generally been sympathetic and understand the problem, but have said there is nothing they can do. I have asked for contact info for people who can resolve the problem and have been told D* does not have those numbers. I did contact the affiliates, only to be told that the problem lies with the NFL and/or D*. There is a lot of finger-pointing and buck-passing going around.

While looking for information on Google yesterday, I stumbled on a news release issued by a US Congressman's office in Michigan. Several constituents in the upper peninsula of that state had blackout situations similar to mine and others here. The Congressman (Rep. Bart Stupak) worked with the affiliates there, D* and the NFL and worked out an agreement that lifted the blackouts in several Michigan cities. This took only a few days and the blackouts were lifted in time for Week 2 of the season. I spoke with a Stupak staffer yesterday and asked who I should call for a similar arrangement. She suggested I contact my own Congressman. I called his area office and was directed to send a letter, which I did. I am awaiting a reply or action, but both the Stupak staffer and the staffer in my Congressman's office seemed optimistic that a deal can be reached. The Stupak staffer said she would be willing to fill my Congressman's office in on details of the issue and to help in any way she can.

So that is what I would recommend to others in a similar situation--i.e. contact your own Congressman. The news release about the Michigan deal is on Stupak's website, which can be found via Google. I included a copy with my letter to my Congressman. 

In the meantime, a few of us have received one or more $25 bill credits from DirecTV. D* seems to realize that these circumstances are not quite kosher and that it bears some responsibility for the inconvenience. I just want to see the football games I paid for. If D* wants to lift the blackouts, super. If they want to drag their feet and pay me $25 a week while I wait, I can live with radio broadcasts, too.


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## thumper (Sep 19, 2004)

leonardo10 said:


> I didn't have time to look through all the posts on this but regarding blackouts, some of you had said they don't understand why they are being blacked out if they pay the extra money. Blackout rules vary for each sport but for this topic, the NFL blackout rule is in effect for all broadcasts which are owned by the NFL.
> 
> A game must be sold out 72 hours before kick off for local teams if you are a within that market using DirecTV or Regular TV. If the game is not sold out and your market is within a 75 mile radius of the stadium, your game will be blacked out. Case in point...The Chargers in San Diego do not sell out Qualcomm Stadium 72 hours before kick off so the game is blacked out on CBS and DirecTV in San Diego and Los Angeles. Why LA too? Because the LA TV market falls within a 75 mile radius of the stadium. The rule is in place to protect that NFL team so that they could sell more tickets. And yes, its an NFL rule.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately this not completely true. As I've noted here before I'm 75 miles from Tampa and 150 miles from Jacksonville and according the eligibility site on D*, I am subject to the blackout from both teams. If I move 5 miles to the east so I'm 80 miles from Tampa and 145 miles from Jacksonville, I am no longer subject to blackout from Tampa but still subject to it from Jacksonville. This simply does not make any sense.


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## lowjeep (Jul 23, 2004)

plz see my post Here I sure hope it helps clear up some of the issues. I apologize if any of this has been said before.


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## Skyboss (Jan 22, 2004)

_The blackouts of games on local CBS and FOX stations WAS NOT implemented last year with SUNDAY TICKET._

Bull****. Yes, they were. The difference this year is that CBS and FOX can buy exclusive rights to a game and black it out in any market of their choosing.


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## cdharris (Jan 21, 2004)

Skyboss said:


> _The blackouts of games on local CBS and FOX stations WAS NOT implemented last year with SUNDAY TICKET._
> 
> Bull****. Yes, they were. The difference this year is that CBS and FOX can buy exclusive rights to a game and black it out in any market of their choosing.


The blackout WAS NOT implemented last year. I had never had any game blacked out in 5 years with ST until this year. Now all games that are on the Fox and CBS stations which have me in their DMA are blacked out every week, regardless of my waivers or eligibility for DNS. That may have been the rule before, but it was not implemented until this year. At least not in my area.


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## stevesmall (Jul 28, 2004)

The blackout rule has been in the contract since inception of sunday ticket. it was never enforced by the teams and or stations in each individual market. The stations are under fire from the cable companies because of their inability to offer Sunday ticket that they are complaining about stations they carry being blacked out.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

cdharris said:


> The blackout WAS NOT implemented last year. I had never had any game blacked out in 5 years with ST until this year. Now all games that are on the Fox and CBS stations which have me in their DMA are blacked out every week, regardless of my waivers or eligibility for DNS. That may have been the rule before, but it was not implemented until this year. At least not in my area.


Sighhhh, yes it *WAS* implemented last year. In fact it was in place 2 years ago.

Once again, the history....

2002 - New contract signed which included the local blackout because of cry baby local affiliates.
2002 - Seattle and Pittsburgh markets only blacked out as "test" markets
2003 - Nationwide but only enforced mainly in the bigger markets and NFL cities
2004 - Nationwide and enforced pretty much everywhere in all 210 markets.

While it may be true that in your particular market there were no blackouts last year (my market also was not blacked out last year), the fact remains that the blackout rules from the local affiliates where in place last year and were advertised and well known for this year well before the season started.

But then this has been rehashed so many times in this thread and others on other forums I'm not even sure why it's being brought up again. Facts are facts. Deal with 'em.


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