# Save me a call to DTV -- do they still want HR20s back?



## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

I received my return box for DTV equipment. The return label mentions HR21-100 and R16-300.

I also have a HR20-100. Does DTV no longer want these old units returned?

Has anyone else had experience with this?


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

According to Wahooq, who works for them, they are no longer recovered.


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## jdspencer (Nov 8, 2003)

They wanted my HR20-100, but that was like a year and a half ago.

I suggest that you either call or send an email.


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

ATARI said:


> I received my return box for DTV equipment. The return label mentions HR21-100 and R16-300.
> 
> I also have a HR20-100. Does DTV no longer want these old units returned?
> 
> Has anyone else had experience with this?


You're asking for some very bad advice, no matter who gives it (on this forum).

There are many, many stories of people who were told one thing (even by CSRs) and then hit with a charge for non-returned equipment.

Forget what anyone says here (on this matter). Call D*, get the name and employee number of the person that tells you what to do, write down the date and time of the conversation, then follow up accordingly.

The fact that one person was told by one other person that a box may not need to be returned is nothing more than an accident waiting to happen (when it comes to DirecTV)

It is abundantly clear to anyone who follows these forums that all too often the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing at DirecTV. Adding in the hearsay advice of an internet forum on a matter that could cost you hundreds of dollars is ...well....


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## scott0702 (Nov 25, 2006)

ATARI said:


> I received my return box for DTV equipment. The return label mentions HR21-100 and R16-300.
> 
> I also have a HR20-100. Does DTV no longer want these old units returned?
> 
> Has anyone else had experience with this?


I just had an HDDVR upgrade to replace a HR20. They sent me a recovery kit and this was in the last 3 weeks.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

I suggest you call and CYA (Cover your ...).


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

dpeters11 said:


> According to Wahooq, who works for them, they are no longer recovered.


I called ACT the other day about a concern I had and remembered to ask them if the 20s were recoverable. Their answer was "no".

If they are not recoverable, does this mean I can put big HDDs in them with violating the TOS? Do we now own them?

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

hasan said:


> You're asking for some very bad advice, no matter who gives it (on this forum).
> 
> There are many, many stories of people who were told one thing (even by CSRs) and then hit with a charge for non-returned equipment.
> 
> ...


I kinda think the folks at ACT know what they're talking about, but you're right, I'd have to find out more before I start fiddling around with my leased 20-700s.

Rich


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Rich said:


> I called ACT the other day about a concern I had and remembered to ask them if the 20s were recoverable. Their answer was "no".
> 
> If they are not recoverable, does this mean I can put big HDDs in them with violating the TOS? Do we now own them?
> 
> Rich


I believe non recoverable boxes are still leased, so opening them is a violation of the TOS, and you can't sell them or have them activated on a different account.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Just called ACT and the CSR I talked to wasn't sure, so she put me on hold and checked. According to her the 20s are NOT recoverable, cannot be sold as "owned" or in any other way since they cannot be activated on any other account.

They will still be treated as an "owned" receiver if you have one and will be replaceable as "owned" if you have the PP. 

Take that for what it's worth. Be interesting to see how this plays out.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

dpeters11 said:


> I believe non recoverable boxes are still leased, so opening them is a violation of the TOS, and you can't sell them or have them activated on a different account.


That's what the ACT CSR just told me. She did kinda agree that opening them up would be kinda hard to prove, since they're not taking them back.

Rich


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## dettxw (Nov 21, 2007)

I deactivated an HR22-100, an H21-200, and an HR20-700. 
FWIW they only sent recovery boxes for the HR22-100 & H21-200. 
It's been long enough that if there was a problem they would have messed with me by now. But next time I need to call gotta remember to ask about it just in case.


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

So, I called twice (first time got cut off as CSR was 'checking into it').

I confirmed with the second CSR that they are no longer taking back the HR20-100s.

And I do have the name and number of the CSR to CMA.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

Rich said:


> I called ACT the other day about a concern I had and remembered to ask them if the 20s were recoverable. Their answer was "no".
> 
> If they are not recoverable, does this mean I can put big HDDs in them with violating the TOS? Do we now own them?
> 
> Rich


Technically you violate the lease agreement with that receiver. However since we no longer want them back it won't matter as the worst case scenario is you would have been chaarged for any modifications/damage that had to be reversed.



ATARI said:


> So, I called twice (first time got cut off as CSR was 'checking into it').
> 
> I confirmed with the second CSR that they are no longer taking back the HR20-100s.
> 
> And I do have the name and number of the CSR to CMA.


They're not recoverable and it's all H20 and HR20 models not just the -100.

They cannot be sold/transfered as they will stay leased. Use them until they die basically and after that recycle them.


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

Shades228 said:


> Technically you violate the lease agreement with that receiver. However since we no longer want them back it won't matter as the worst case scenario is you would have been chaarged for any modifications/damage that had to be reversed.
> 
> They're not recoverable and it's all H20 and HR20 models not just the -100.
> 
> They cannot be sold/transfered as they will stay leased. Use them until they die basically and after that recycle them.


I believe Best Buy has a FREE recycling program.


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## mdavej (Jan 31, 2007)

ATARI said:


> So, I called twice (first time got cut off as CSR was 'checking into it').
> 
> I confirmed with the second CSR that they are no longer taking back the HR20-100s.
> 
> And I do have the name and number of the CSR to CMA.


Exact same experience here. Actually I called several CSR's and they told me they no longer took them back, even got an email from support stating the same thing. A month later I get a bill for several hundred dollars in non-return fees. So don't believe a word you hear from a CSR. Hang on to that HR20 until you get your final bill.


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## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

DirecTV wanted my HR20 back last October.

1-800-DIRECTV is a free call. I would call and get the answer and ask for documentation.


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

mdavej said:


> Exact same experience here. Actually I called several CSR's and they told me they no longer took them back, even got an email from support stating the same thing. A month later I get a bill for several hundred dollars in non-return fees. So don't believe a word you hear from a CSR. Hang on to that HR20 until you get your final bill.


That's my plan -- keep it until the end of August, and if they haven't charged me by then, to Best Buy it goes.


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## kfcrosby (Dec 17, 2006)

Who knows. I recently deactivated my HR-20 2 months ago and they field scrapped it. Did my dad's last week, and they want his back. Same vintage HR-20, both out of contract.

Go figure


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## davring (Jan 13, 2007)

Wonder if anyone is collecting HR20's for parts for some die hards, like me, who prefers to keep them running. I use OTA on both of mine and in one location it would not be possible to add an AM21, due to space limitations.


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## fingerstyle (Jan 23, 2008)

I guess I'm a wee bit late to the party on this one.....I have an HR-20 that's about 6 years old. It's slowing down a bit but it still runs. Over the last few months I've received several emails from DTV telling me I am entitled to a free upgrade. If I go online they want to send me an HR-24. Are they doing this out of the goodness of their heart or trying to get rid of the old boxes.........or????

Any reasons why I should or should not do this?


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## peano (Feb 1, 2004)

You will likely not get an HR24. Maybe an HR21 or HR22 (both are garbage, crap, junk).


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

fingerstyle said:


> I guess I'm a wee bit late to the party on this one.....I have an HR-20 that's about 6 years old. It's slowing down a bit but it still runs. Over the last few months I've received several emails from DTV telling me I am entitled to a free upgrade. If I go online they want to send me an HR-24. Are they doing this out of the goodness of their heart or trying to get rid of the old boxes.........or????
> 
> Any reasons why I should or should not do this?


Well, one would be you may not get an HR24! They don't promise one, you get what they bring which could be an HR21 series, just as well.

BE CAREFUL. More than one person here got the impression they were going to get an HR24 and got HR21s. If your sole reason for making the change is to get an HR24, then don't do it. The only way you can be sure to get an HR24 is to buy one (it will still be leased) from Solidsignal.com, or some such. You might get D* to give you credits for your cost.

You can, however get an HMC or HR34, because it is unique. It has 5 tuners and retails for $399. You might check and see if in your "upgrade" they will specify the HR34 and find out what they want. Depending on your status with them, you could get it for anything from free up to $199.

Don't believe any CSR (or anyone else for that matter) who guarantees you an HR24. They can't and they will ...shall we say...."make mistakes" or "miscommunicate", leaving you to spend hours on the phone trying to clear up the mess that follows.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

fingerstyle said:


> I guess I'm a wee bit late to the party on this one.....I have an HR-20 that's about 6 years old. It's slowing down a bit but it still runs. Over the last few months I've received several emails from DTV telling me I am entitled to a free upgrade. If I go online they want to send me an HR-24. Are they doing this out of the goodness of their heart or trying to get rid of the old boxes.........or????
> 
> Any reasons why I should or should not do this?


An upgrade is getting a different type of receiver. Ordering a HD DVR to replace an HD DVR can result you in the same box and a new agreement.


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## fingerstyle (Jan 23, 2008)

They call it an upgrade and just to see......I went through the prompts on the website and there was an HR24 in my "cart". Cancelled out of it because I wanted to check here first so let me rephrase the question..

If DTV is really offering a fee upgrade to an HR 24, and it seems they are, is that something worth doing? I don't use the OTA enough to make a difference.


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

fingerstyle said:


> They call it an upgrade and just to see......I went through the prompts on the website and there was an HR24 in my "cart". Cancelled out of it because I wanted to check here first so let me rephrase the question..
> 
> If DTV is really offering a fee upgrade to an HR 24, and it seems they are, is that something worth doing? I don't use the OTA enough to make a difference.


You can use OTA with it just fine by adding an AM21 tuner to the HR24. It is about $50.00 bucks, and they work very well. I have two of them (on HR21 and H21 units)

So, if a new Hr24 is worth a 2 year contract, go for it. Keep all your records carefully, in case what shows up is an Hr21 or Hr22.


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## fingerstyle (Jan 23, 2008)

So the reason behind this is that my contract expired some time ago and they want to be sure I don't leave?

New 2 year deal isn't a problem ,I don't have many options.

Is the HR24 that much better?


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

fingerstyle said:


> Is the HR24 that much better?


Yes. :up:


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

fingerstyle said:


> So the reason behind this is that my contract expired some time ago and they want to be sure I don't leave?
> 
> New 2 year deal isn't a problem ,I don't have many options.
> 
> Is the HR24 that much better?


Yes, it is much faster, and yes, they want you to lock in, so they are offering an incentive.

I've been with them since '94 or '95 and have an HR20-700 that is getting really old, but still works (sluggishly at times, quite snappy at others). Some time soon, I expect to "upgrade" to an HR34, if they make the deal sweet enough. Then I'll be in for another 2 year contract.

The HR34 has 5 tuners instead of the 2 that the HR24 has, and it has a 1 TB drive instead of what I think the 24 has (500 gig).


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## JACKIEGAGA (Dec 11, 2006)

Im still waiting for my kit for a HR20-700 from Feb 16. My HR20-700 is sitting on a shelf in my basement. I haven't been charged for it. So I guess Wahooq is right


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

JACKIEGAGA said:


> Im still waiting for my kit for a HR20-700 from Feb 16. My HR20-700 is sitting on a shelf in my basement. I haven't been charged for it. So I guess Wahooq is right


D* has been so inconsistent with both its behavior as well as its communications that I wouldn't get rid of that HR20-700 any time soon.

I'm sorry to say so, but I no longer trust anything D* says. They have a good service and a nice developmental history for their boxes, but they are among the absolute worst communicators I have ever dealt with.


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## JACKIEGAGA (Dec 11, 2006)

hasan said:


> D* has been so inconsistent with both its behavior as well as its communications that I wouldn't get rid of that HR20-700 any time soon.
> 
> I'm sorry to say so, but I no longer trust anything D* says. They have a good service and a nice developmental history for their boxes, but they are among the absolute worst communicators I have ever dealt with.


Agreed thats why I have it on a shelf in my basement


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

But then how long do you keep them? Get rid of them with the tax records for the year you disconnected? A year?


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## JACKIEGAGA (Dec 11, 2006)

dpeters11 said:


> But then how long do you keep them? Get rid of them with the tax records for the year you disconnected? A year?


Until I get tired of looking at it :lol:


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

JACKIEGAGA said:


> Until I get tired of looking at it :lol:


+1


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

until I have chance to blast shotgun at it like the 2 H21's last year.


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## JACKIEGAGA (Dec 11, 2006)

David MacLeod said:


> until I have chance to blast shotgun at it like the 2 H21's last year.


!rolling


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

A fee would only be applied if the receiver was deactivated before the official date it went on the non return list. In that case they would just cancel it and all would be normal in about 5 minutes.


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## unixguru (Jul 9, 2007)

Shades228 said:


> They're not recoverable and it's all H20 and HR20 models not just the -100.
> 
> They cannot be sold/transfered as they will stay leased. Use them until they die basically and after that recycle them.


So let's see if I understand D* position on this (I understand you don't speak for D*):


D* doesn't want H[R]20 back
D* still considers them leased and therefore D* property
Which effectively means customers have to hang on to them for eternity. They can't be recycled as that would imply that the customer owns them.

Does anyone in D* management have a single brain cell?

D* should either send a recovery kit or send a letter terminating the lease on the specific model/serial number.

BUT, if they sent the letter then guess who is stuck paying the electronic recycling fee? I realize that there are some places that will recycle for free (BestBuy mentioned earlier in this thread) but many people don't live within a reasonable distance. At a minimum there is the cost of gas and wear to deliver the device for recycling.

So in my mind if D* isn't going to recover the device for free then they, along with letter, need to credit the customers account for disposal costs (maybe $20?). After all, why is D* not recovering them? To save themselves these costs!

Management should finish planning for the entire lifecycle of their lease program. Which should have been done from the beginning.

FYI I have an H20 and an HR20 that were terminated a few weeks ago.


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## wahooq (Oct 19, 2011)

unixguru said:


> So let's see if I understand D* position on this (I understand you don't speak for D*):
> 
> 
> D* doesn't want H[R]20 back
> ...


People can dispose of them as they wish or keep them if they are still working. Best Buy does free electronics recycling as do a lot of mom and pop computer stores. One couldnt sell them as they are remaining leased in order to get out of circulation. There are many ways to dispose of electronics with little or no hassle


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

"wahooq" said:


> People can dispose of them as they wish or keep them if they are still working. Best Buy does free electronics recycling as do a lot of mom and pop computer stores. One couldnt sell them as they are remaining leased in order to get out of circulation. There are many ways to dispose of electronics with little or no hassle


That is pretty fast and loose with any definition of a lease. Is there a new lease agreement to supersede the old one saying I can now throw it out, but cannot sell it?


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

raott said:


> That is pretty fast and loose with any definition of a lease. Is there a new lease agreement to supersede the old one saying I can now throw it out, but cannot sell it?


The lease agreement doesn't state you can't throw it out. It states that if you don't return it when requested you will be charged a fee. Since these receivers won't ever be requested to be returned, now, there won't be a fee.


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## Michael H.. (May 31, 2007)

jdspencer said:


> They wanted my HR20-100, but that was like a year and a half ago.
> 
> I suggest that you either call or send an email.


"We've Arranged for the Convenient & Easy Return of Your DirecTV *Access Card*"
"Please return your DirecTV *Access Card* with these simple steps:"
"1. Take the Access Card out of the recently replaced receiver."
"2. Put the Access Card only in this pre-paid USPS mailer."
"3. Mail back to DirecTV. Please return this within 7 days of the receiver replacement."

As with the "Receiver Recovery Kit", the pre-paid Fedex box, DirecTV is alternately providing a pre-paid 5" x 7" greeting card size envelope to return *Just the Access Card* for HR20's and other receivers that they no longer require to be returned.
The "quoted" text above is printed on the envelope flap. The envelopes were enclosed in the replacement receiver boxes, and the wording seems to indicate that the envelopes are for "replaced" receivers, but the CSR told me that if I did not order a replacement, but simply deactivated the HR20's, they would still require return of the *Access Cards* only. I also asked if I gave away an HR20, could someone else activate it, and was told that they could not. The CSR seemed to be well versed in new DirecTV policy, and I believe this information accurately reflects current policy... however we know that doesn't mean that deviations won't occur, and I plan to be interred with the receivers so that if DirecTV later demands their return, all that is required is a simple exhumation.


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## gphvid (Jun 19, 2007)

peano said:


> You will likely not get an HR24. Maybe an HR21 or HR22 (both are garbage, crap, junk).


Actually, the HR21 I got for a replacement of a HR20-100 was not crap. The box works great with no troubles, unlike the HR 20...


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## unixguru (Jul 9, 2007)

Shades228 said:


> The lease agreement doesn't state you can't throw it out. It states that if you don't return it when requested you will be charged a fee. Since these receivers won't ever be requested to be returned, now, there won't be a fee.


You're still not getting the problem here.

There is no *legally* stated expiration of the period when "return it when requested" could happen.

You say that they won't ever be requested. May even be official internal policy. That's worth nothing legally. As is a CSR stating it on the phone. What matters is what's in writing - official paper/PDF/email in possession of the customer.

Let's say I believe that D* is a benevolent business (with large companies an oxymoron if there ever was one) and I dispose of my H20 & HR20. There is *legally* nothing that stops D* from changing it's mind and charging me. I have no *legal* grounds to refuse paying such a charge.

I'm not a lawyer but this is just plain common sense.


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## unixguru (Jul 9, 2007)

Michael Hilley said:


> "We've Arranged for the Convenient & Easy Return of Your DirecTV *Access Card*"
> "Please return your DirecTV *Access Card* with these simple steps:"
> "1. Take the Access Card out of the recently replaced receiver."
> "2. Put the Access Card only in this pre-paid USPS mailer."
> ...


Doesn't help.

Returning an Access Card doesn't *by itself* permanently disable a receiver. Or terminate the lease on the box it was married to.

Both the card and receiver have a unique code. Those codes may be permanently terminated but it means nothing regarding the disposition of hardware, dead or not, that is covered by the lease agreement.

This is not rocket science. If their systems can send out a recovery kit it can sure has hell send out a lease termination letter for the hardware.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Rich said:


> If they are not recoverable, does this mean I can put big HDDs in them with violating the TOS? Do we now own them?


I would wonder if they would activate a receiver that has been written off.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

harsh said:


> I would wonder if they would activate a receiver that has been written off.


I asked that question and got a qualified "yes". I think you'd have to return the original access card when deactivating and when reactivating the 20, buy a new one for $20.

This is just gonna turn into a nightmare. I think *Michael Hilley* and *unixguru *are correct about everything they posted. This is another case of poor planning on D*'s part. If D* just had someone who could think of worst case scenarios and plan for them before doing something major, this could all be avoided.

Rich


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

unixguru said:


> Doesn't help.
> 
> Returning an Access Card doesn't *by itself* permanently disable a receiver. Or terminate the lease on the box it was married to.
> 
> ...


By terminating the lease they would be transfering rights to the customer. This means the receiver could be sold and put back into circulation. They don't want these in circulation anymore therefor they will not terminate the lease agreement. They will just tell you that they do not want the receiver returned. This is public knowledge available to all employees not some hidden list. So if you don't want to trust them that's on you.

You started a whole other thread on this with the same issue. You don't feel it's right for people to get discounts and you want everyone to be equial and don't want to trust them. These are your issues not DIRECTV's. Obviouslly the majority agree that it's fine due to their continued growth and success each year.

If you're that hung up on it send an email and ask if you have to return the receiver. When you get an email back stating you don't then print that and put a copy in your safety deposit box, one in your vault, one to your lawyer, and then archive the email online on at least 3 cloud based storage systems.



harsh said:


> I would wonder if they would activate a receiver that has been written off.


On the same account: Yes 
On a different account: No this is why they stay leased in the system so they're not transfered.


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## Michael H.. (May 31, 2007)

Earlier on in my career, those of us registered on recipient lists for specifications and standards, received those in hard copies, and received the periodic updates in hard copies as well, containing just the revised pages, which we manually replaced in the binders we kept. The number of specs I was required to maintain, necessitated nearly an hour/week just for the task of replacing pages. Obviously a huge logistical nightmare and a PIA, for the responsible government agency and for the users... but the best system available at the time.

Fast forward to the present... all of this is done electronically. No more binders... no more paper. If I need the latest spec, I logon and review it online.

DirecTV does not have to mail out 20M new contracts/revisions for any/every policy change to their customers. All they have to do is setup a dedicated site that BOTH their CSR's as well as customers have access to, and are told is the single/official authority for ALL policies, superceding previous policies. The CSR is referring to the same source that the customer is. The only reason to contact a CSR would be for processes that require a CSR, not to engage policy info roulette. 

Regarding receiver recovery, DirecTV can list each model and the specific method of deactivation/return required, even with a button to initiate the applicable recovery kit to be sent to the customer.

I've suggested this (general to policy) to DirecTV in the past... however unless Mike White was answering the phone, never to anyone who could do anything about it... or even knew who to pass the suggestion along to. Occurs to me that some of the mods/subs might be on a first name basis with someone at DirecTV that could?


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

Michael Hilley said:


> Earlier on in my career, those of us registered on recipient lists for specifications and standards, received those in hard copies, and received the periodic updates in hard copies as well, containing just the revised pages, which we manually replaced in the binders we kept. The number of specs I was required to maintain, necessitated nearly an hour/week just for the task of replacing pages. Obviously a huge logistical nightmare and a PIA, for the responsible government agency and for the users... but the best system available at the time.
> 
> Fast forward to the present... all of this is done electronically. No more binders... no more paper. If I need the latest spec, I logon and review it online.
> 
> ...


The only companies I know that have a system like this are companies that charge for support, Apple, Microsoft, Cisco just to name a couple. With those products you pay for support which helps maintain this.

The nature of changes that happen in a day would make this a logisitical nightmare besides the fact that it's completely un necessary. Shipping costs money and allowing people to just request something would end up being a huge overhead increase because people change their minds all the time. Some people get upset that it takes a week to get a recovery kit shipped but how many times have people changed their mind and called in a week to get that receiver reactivated. However once the lables are paid for that's a cost.

What you suggest is just a huge cost increase with very little benefit. How many people would look I bet less than 10000 people would really care and I'm betting out of those 10000 people most would just be looking at it because they want to justify why they think they're getting screwed.

Look at the discussion over something as simple as "do not return" is. This isn't rocket science you just don't trust the company. If you don't then don't do business with them. I've canceled accounts and gone to places because I didn't trust the company anymore.

Bottom line it's not worth it for the little impact it would have and individual consumer's as a majority refuse to pay additional for customer support.


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## Michael H.. (May 31, 2007)

Shades228 said:


> The only companies I know that have a system like this are companies that charge for support, Apple, Microsoft, Cisco just to name a couple. With those products you pay for support which helps maintain this.
> 
> The nature of changes that happen in a day would make this a logisitical nightmare besides the fact that it's completely un necessary. Shipping costs money and allowing people to just request something would end up being a huge overhead increase because people change their minds all the time. Some people get upset that it takes a week to get a recovery kit shipped but how many times have people changed their mind and called in a week to get that receiver reactivated. However once the lables are paid for that's a cost.
> 
> ...


We'll have to agree to disagree.

What I suggest is not added effort on the part of DirecTV.
Changes to policy are going to be internally documented in some form regardless... I'm recommending that they do it just once, and make it available for everyone, so that their CSR's as well as the customers are *literally* are on the same page.

As for customers changing their minds, this is independent of ordering a return kit.
DirecTV is already sending these out, and people are changing their minds... I assume that DirecTV accounts for the $6 monthly additional receiver fee put back on compensates the cost of shipping materials... if not, DirecTV could spell out in the "online policy" that a recovery kit is sent out for each receiver once at no cost to the customer, meaning they hold onto it until they do return the receiver or pay to send out an additional kit if one is requested at that later date... I don't believe DirecTV would.

I don't know about the "nature of changes that happen in a day", but this is an argument for adopting a better system, not maintaining the present one... if they're as extensive as you suggest, I'm not surprised that the CSR's cannot locate and provide consistent information.

I don't know how many people would look at the site, and what would individually motivate each of them. I would like to think that they would search the site to get answers, much as they do with DBSTalk, but would be assured that it was the definitive source regarding DirecTV policy, because DirecTV would say that it was.

As for whether "I just don't trust the company"... if you mean that I am not certain that the information I receive from a phone CSR is 100% reliable and accurate, then you are correct. I do not believe that the wrong information is the result of willful deceit, rather I believe that it is confusion over policy changes and where to get the latest information. This is my impression of not only DirecTV, but virtually every company I deal/dealt with... just an aspect of doing business and never a source of consternation because I have planned risks/contingencies so I've never experienced any major (or minor) consequences. If you meant something else, you're not qualified to make any conclusions regarding me.

There is no additional cost for customer support, beyond what DirecTV already supports, and the system improvement may lessen/reduce policy related call support. I believe that a system change would help, not burden DirecTV, as well as its customers.


----------



## wahooq (Oct 19, 2011)

Rich said:


> I asked that question and got a qualified "yes". I think you'd have to return the original access card when deactivating and when reactivating the 20, buy a new one for $20.
> 
> This is just gonna turn into a nightmare. I think *Michael Hilley* and *unixguru *are correct about everything they posted. This is another case of poor planning on D*'s part. If D* just had someone who could think of worst case scenarios and plan for them before doing something major, this could all be avoided.
> 
> Rich


Jesus people its no different than anything thats ever been done before ....just including a different model


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

wahooq said:


> Jesus people its no different than anything thats ever been done before ....just including a different model


"No different than anything that's ever been done before". Yup, that's why I wrote that. Just about every time D* makes a major change it causes a "nightmare" for customers and CSRs. DLBs, the HD UI and on and on. Better management and better training would not let this happen time after time.

Rich


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## unixguru (Jul 9, 2007)

Shades228 said:


> By terminating the lease they would be transfering rights to the customer. This means the receiver could be sold and put back into circulation. They don't want these in circulation anymore therefor they will not terminate the lease agreement. They will just tell you that they do not want the receiver returned. This is public knowledge available to all employees not some hidden list. So if you don't want to trust them that's on you.


Ahhh... So the lease isn't terminated - ever. DTV won't transfer rights to something they consider worthless and won't take back. But customer is suppose to dispose of it. Sigh.

Why in the world is this "put back into circulation" an issue for DTV??? The damn box has it's own unique code and just like the access card it should be marked as permanently unusable in DTV's systems. So how the heck is anyone going to put it back into circulation?????

This just continues to highlight how totally clueless DTV management is. I guess they regularly lease a car for 15 years and then at the end of that time the leasing company still owns it but, , customer should dispose of it.



Shades228 said:


> You started a whole other thread on this with the same issue. You don't feel it's right for people to get discounts and you want everyone to be equial and don't want to trust them. These are your issues not DIRECTV's. Obviouslly the majority agree that it's fine due to their continued growth and success each year.


Please stop the jedi-mind-trick management deflection crap. Discounts are a problem independent of anything else (just ask the many customers who don't get them). Leases and disconnects are a separate and much bigger problem. Since you have a hangup with the smaller part of my other thread - just ignore 5% of the content rather than use it to deflect from everything else.


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## unixguru (Jul 9, 2007)

wahooq said:


> Jesus people its no different than anything thats ever been done before ....just including a different model


Are you serious????!!!

This is the first time *leased* hardware is no longer being recovered.

I've been with D* since 1995 and I'm pretty certain I'm not wrong about that.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

"unixguru" said:


> Are you serious????!!!
> 
> This is the first time leased hardware is no longer being recovered.
> 
> I've been with D* since 1995 and I'm pretty certain I'm not wrong about that.


I'd think the H20, at least the -600 wold have been in this state, maybe the R22. But there are a lot more HR20s.


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## wahooq (Oct 19, 2011)

unixguru said:


> Are you serious????!!!
> 
> This is the first time *leased* hardware is no longer being recovered.
> 
> I've been with D* since 1995 and I'm pretty certain I'm not wrong about that.


Poppycock!!! Seriously I can name probably a dozen models that are DNR and could still be out there as leased. One has nothing to do with the other.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

wahooq said:


> Poppycock!!! Seriously I can name probably a dozen models that are DNR and could still be out there as leased. One has nothing to do with the other.


Gotta agree with you there. I recently dug out an old TiVo and an R10 SD DVR and found out that, altho they replaced owned TiVos, they were listed as leased. Called retention and found out that "someone made a mistake" back in 2006 and relisted the DVRs as leased. Got an email stating that they were owned and not recoverable. Threw them out. So, yeah, there are leased DNRs out there, but how many are truly leased or were listed as leased on a whim?

D* doesn't have software that tracks their inventory, I guess, or this wouldn't have happened.

Rich


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## wahooq (Oct 19, 2011)

I was just excited to be able to use the word "Poppycock"..hahahaha


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## wilbur_the_goose (Aug 16, 2006)

So what's the answer - do they want HR20's back?


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## wahooq (Oct 19, 2011)

No sir


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## skinnyJM (Nov 19, 2005)

wahooq said:


> Poppycock!!! Seriously I can name probably a dozen models that are DNR and could still be out there as leased. One has nothing to do with the other.


Got a kick out of seeing "Poppycock!" also.

Are you allowed to list the DNR models here? Just curious as to which ones they are.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

The problem is that there are times when a model would be wanted and when it wouldn't depending on the scenario so posting a list could potentially add more confusion. So it's easier to just get the information at the time of disconnecting the receiver.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

"Shades228" said:


> The problem is that there are times when a model would be wanted and when it wouldn't depending on the scenario so posting a list could potentially add more confusion. So it's easier to just get the information at the time of disconnecting the receiver.


So one can go on the last if DirecTV has a bunch in stock, then go off the list when they need more?


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## wahooq (Oct 19, 2011)

No, what Shades is saying is that some receivers would be recoverable say if being upgraded, but not if being replaced for tech issues.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

"wahooq" said:


> No, what Shades is saying is that some receivers would be recoverable say if being upgraded, but not if being replaced for tech issues.


Got it. Thanks for clarifying.


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## augisdad (Sep 29, 2011)

So, does that mean we can open them up? Mine has been making a screeching sound occasionally.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

augisdad said:


> So, does that mean we can open them up? Mine has been making a screeching sound occasionally.


Yup. Screeching sound? Bad HDD? Bad fan? Not many moving parts inside. All D* wants from the 20s is the access cards. They'll never know what you do when you open one up.

Rich


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## augisdad (Sep 29, 2011)

Yeah, those were the only 2 things I could come up with. I'm figuring it's the fan or I'd be having issues playing/recording (and none so far). And if it is the fan, it could be replaced. Still have stuff on there I haven't watched! (plus its a good backup in case something flaky happens on the HR34).


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

augisdad said:


> So, does that mean we can open them up? Mine has been making a screeching sound occasionally.


Until you (personally) get official (we're not talking about some front-line CSR here) notification to the contrary, nothing has changed.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Shades228 said:


> So it's easier to just get the information at the time of disconnecting the receiver.


It is probably best, but the track record for CSRs getting this right has not been particular stellar; especially where a substantial (and often out-of-the-blue) non-return fee is involved.


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

Ordered a replacement for my HR20-700 last night. CSR told me a recovery box was coming. We'll see if it really does.

I'll make a second call as a CYA if the recovery box doesn't show.


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## wahooq (Oct 19, 2011)

raott said:


> Ordered a replacement for my HR20-700 last night. CSR told me a recovery box was coming. We'll see if it really does.
> 
> I'll make a second call as a CYA if the recovery box doesn't show.


It wont but CYa definately


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

raott said:


> Ordered a replacement for my HR20-700 last night. CSR told me a recovery box was coming. We'll see if it really does.
> 
> I'll make a second call as a CYA if the recovery box doesn't show.





wahooq said:


> It wont but CYa definately


To clarify replacement receivers, placed as an ERP, would have a return label inside as well as instructions to return the box. You will not have that in there.

If it was done as an upgrade, which it shouldn't have, but then it wouldn't have a label in there as onec you deactivate the receiver they would check to see if it needed to be returned.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Shades228 said:


> To clarify replacement receivers, placed as an ERP, would have a return label inside as well as instructions to return the box. You will not have that in there.
> 
> If it was done as an upgrade, which it shouldn't have, but then it wouldn't have a label in there as onec you deactivate the receiver they would check to see if it needed to be returned.


I deactivated two 20-700s Monday and the CSR at ACT did get it right. They're sending me return envelopes for the two access cards and I will keep the 20-700s...forever? Just to CMY. I also deactivated a 21-200 and they got that one right, too. Waiting for a recovery box for that one.

As much as I appreciate the help you've given me (I'll always be grateful for the tip on DNS you gave me, I've already told several people I know about that and their problems have been solved too), I have one problem with your posts...the acronyms. I have no idea what "ERP" means for example. Some of us are not particularly technologically up to speed in this field and acronyms that folks use normally, go right over our heads. A brief explanation of what an acronym means would be most helpful. You usually have to only explain it once and it will filter into the forum population.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

wahooq said:


> It wont but CYa definately


I don't think the info has trickled down to everyone at D* yet.

Rich


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## Beerstalker (Feb 9, 2009)

Rich said:


> I have no idea what "ERP" means for example.


Pretty sure it means Equipment Replacement Program, or something similar. It's the program that replaces receivers with equivalent receivers if one breaks down for just the cost of shipping. It's the free equivalent of the $6/month Protection Plan (PP) where you don't have to pay for shipping and they will fix anything in your DirecTV system.


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## wahooq (Oct 19, 2011)

Beerstalker said:


> Pretty sure it means Equipment Replacement Program, or something similar. It's the program that replaces receivers with equivalent receivers if one breaks down for just the cost of shipping. It's the free equivalent of the $6/month Protection Plan (PP) where you don't have to pay for shipping and they will fix anything in your DirecTV system.


True dat...


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

Rich said:


> I deactivated two 20-700s Monday and the CSR at ACT did get it right. They're sending me return envelopes for the two access cards and I will keep the 20-700s...forever? Just to CMY. I also deactivated a 21-200 and they got that one right, too. Waiting for a recovery box for that one.
> 
> As much as I appreciate the help you've given me (I'll always be grateful for the tip on DNS you gave me, I've already told several people I know about that and their problems have been solved too), I have one problem with your posts...the acronyms. I have no idea what "ERP" means for example. Some of us are not particularly technologically up to speed in this field and acronyms that folks use normally, go right over our heads. A brief explanation of what an acronym means would be most helpful. You usually have to only explain it once and it will filter into the forum population.
> 
> Rich


Sorry as stated ERP does stand for Equipment Replacement Program. These are acronyms that are not company specific so I forget that some people won't know them. Such as UPC (universal product code), SKU (stock keeping unit), RMA (return merchandise authorization), and so forth.


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## ChE74 (May 1, 2009)

Anyone,

How long does it take to receive the recovery material whatever it is?

After 17 years with DTV I cancelled my sub. and now have 2 HR20s to return. The CSR I spoke with when cancelling said I should receive the recovery matrial in 5 to 7 days. That was 3 weeks ago. Haven't heard a thing since then. I checked on line to be sure they closed my account which they had. Also the CSR told me they do not want the slim line dish antenna back, is that true?

Thanks for any input


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## Beerstalker (Feb 9, 2009)

DirecTV never wants the dish back. As far as your two HR20s, it is likely you don't need to return them either. I would call DirecTV again and tell them you never got the recovery kits. Most likely they will tell you that you don't need them because they don't want HR20s back and you are free to dispose of them however you want.


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## fluffybear (Jun 19, 2004)

hasan said:


> You're asking for some very bad advice, no matter who gives it (on this forum).
> 
> There are many, many stories of people who were told one thing (even by CSRs) and then hit with a charge for non-returned equipment.
> 
> ...


No kidding! recently. DirecTV hit me with a non-return fee for an H25 and when I called, the CSR admitted someone had forgot to send out the return kit (It was entered in one system but not another). Received the kit this morning. 
Short story, never assume nothing! pick up the phone, call, and protect yourself..


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Beerstalker said:


> DirecTV never wants the dish back. As far as your two HR20s, it is likely you don't need to return them either. I would call DirecTV again and tell them you never got the recovery kits. Most likely they will tell you that you don't need them because they don't want HR20s back and you are free to dispose of them however you want.


I would keep the HR20s in the attic just in case down the road they tried to bill you for them.

I still have 2 HR10-250s that they did not want back but they are in my attic just in case I need them.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Rich said:


> I called ACT the other day about a concern I had and remembered to ask them if the 20s were recoverable. Their answer was "no".
> 
> If they are not recoverable, does this mean I can put big HDDs in them with violating the TOS? Do we now own them?
> 
> Rich


I would open up that Puppy in a Heartbeat and Replace the Hard Drive with a 2 TB Drive if I wanted to keep it in service.

Personally I got rid of my HR20s and Replaced them with HR24-500s because they are Faster.


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## armophob (Nov 13, 2006)

I appreciate the OP bringing this up.
I have a POS HR20-700 that I want to trash, but I would like another unit in it's place. But the leasing thing has me perplexed. 
From what I have read, if I call, I can get an exchange for a newer model?


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

armophob said:


> I appreciate the OP bringing this up.
> I have a POS HR20-700 that I want to trash, but I would like another unit in it's place. But the leasing thing has me perplexed.
> From what I have read, if I call, I can get an exchange for a newer model?


Assuming your HR20 is leased:

If it is broken and you have the protection plan, it will get replaced with no cost and no commitment.

If it is broken and you do NOT have the protection plan, it will get replaced for a $20 shipping fee and no commitment (you may have success getting the $20 shipping waived).

If you have recently purchased a 3D TV, they will likely replace it for free, no shipping and no commitment because the HR20 is not 3D capable.


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## armophob (Nov 13, 2006)

raott said:


> Assuming your HR20 is leased:
> 
> If it is broken and you have the protection plan, it will get replaced with no cost and no commitment.
> 
> ...


ok, I will use the 3D thing

Thanks


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

raott said:


> Ordered a replacement for my HR20-700 last night. CSR told me a recovery box was coming. We'll see if it really does.
> 
> I'll make a second call as a CYA if the recovery box doesn't show.





wahooq said:


> It wont but CYa definately


HR22 showed up at my door a few minutes ago with instructions to return the HR20 in the same box the HR22 came in, along with a shipping label.


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## wahooq (Oct 19, 2011)

SMH....logistics sucks!


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Beerstalker said:


> Pretty sure it means Equipment Replacement Program, or something similar. It's the program that replaces receivers with equivalent receivers if one breaks down for just the cost of shipping. It's the free equivalent of the $6/month Protection Plan (PP) where you don't have to pay for shipping and they will fix anything in your DirecTV system.


Yup. Now I remember. Never been without the PP, so I don't pay much attention to anything else. Thanx.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Shades228 said:


> Sorry as stated ERP does stand for Equipment Replacement Program. These are acronyms that are not company specific so I forget that some people won't know them. Such as UPC (universal product code), SKU (stock keeping unit), RMA (return merchandise authorization), and so forth.


I know what most of them are, just forgot that one. Had to learn a lot of them when I joined the forum.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Richierich said:


> I would open up that Puppy in a Heartbeat and Replace the Hard Drive with a 2 TB Drive if I wanted to keep it in service.
> 
> Personally I got rid of my HR20s and Replaced them with HR24-500s because they are Faster.


Just replaced two 20-700s for a 24-500 and a 24-100. Slowly, I'll swap them all out for 24s. I just hope the 24s last as long as the 20-700s. Got six 20-700s and six 24s now.

The 20-700s I have are starting to show their age. Little things like many random reboots, noise, etc.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

raott said:


> HR22 showed up at my door a few minutes ago with instructions to return the HR20 in the same box the HR22 came in, along with a shipping label.


I'd send that 22 right back. I would, I would, I would. No more 21 series HRs in my home.

Rich


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## loudo (Mar 24, 2005)

Going to hang onto my two HR20-700s as long as I can. Love the OTA tuner, to get all of the locals DirecTV doesn't offer.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

loudo said:


> Going to hang onto my two HR20-700s as long as I can. Love the OTA tuner, to get all of the locals DirecTV doesn't offer.


Live near Mt. Katahdin?

You get the Canadian stations on OTA?

Rich


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## loudo (Mar 24, 2005)

Rich said:


> Live near Mt. Katahdin?
> 
> You get the Canadian stations on OTA?
> 
> Rich


No I am southwest of Mt. Katahdin. To far way to get any Canadian stations. We do have some additional OTA stations and sub channels that DirecTV doesn't offer.


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

loudo said:


> Going to hang onto my two HR20-700s as long as I can. Love the OTA tuner, to get all of the locals DirecTV doesn't offer.


I would have love to have hung onto the HR20 but the Tuner has likely been not right for a very long time and was getting worse.

HR22 is doing fine so far.

Also, interestingly enough, I have the option to either take the old HR20 to the post office or to FED EX. I knew there was some type of hybrid shipping solution with Fed Ex and the Post Office (which I had zero faith in based on some of what I've read here), but seems like I can take it directly to Fed Ex, which I'm much more comfortable with.


----------



## KarenRichmond (Aug 3, 2012)

hasan said:


> Yes, it is much faster, and yes, they want you to lock in, so they are offering an incentive.
> 
> I've been with them since '94 or '95 and have an HR20-700 that is getting really old, but still works (sluggishly at times, quite snappy at others). Some time soon, I expect to "upgrade" to an HR34, if they make the deal sweet enough. Then I'll be in for another 2 year contract.
> 
> The HR34 has 5 tuners instead of the 2 that the HR24 has, and it has a 1 TB drive instead of what I think the 24 has (500 gig).


Question on the H34....I am assuming most will want to replace 2 DVRs for it, but my concerns would be that if something happened to it being the only DVR in the house I would lose all my recordings and what about the the watching remotely limitations of whole home? Can more than 2 rooms be remotely watching a recording?


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

"raott" said:


> Also, interestingly enough, I have the option to either take the old HR20 to the post office or to FED EX. I knew there was some type of hybrid shipping solution with Fed Ex and the Post Office (which I had zero faith in based on some of what I've read here), but seems like I can take it directly to Fed Ex, which I'm much more comfortable with.


That's what I did, just took it to FedEx Kinkos. Seems to get to DirecTV faster and I had FedEx tracking from the beginning. I returned two DVRs that way with no issue.


----------



## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

KarenRichmond said:


> Question on the H34....I am assuming most will want to replace 2 DVRs for it, but my concerns would be that if something happened to it being the only DVR in the house I would lose all my recordings and what about the the watching remotely limitations of whole home? Can more than 2 rooms be remotely watching a recording?


Yes you would lose your recordings.

HMC (HR34) can stream up to 3 different streams at a time. Meaning that you could not watch the same show in 2 rooms, without doing crazy things just for the same of proving this statement wrong, but you could watch 2 different shows in 2 rooms.


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

"KarenRichmond" said:


> Question on the H34....I am assuming most will want to replace 2 DVRs for it, but my concerns would be that if something happened to it being the only DVR in the house I would lose all my recordings and what about the the watching remotely limitations of whole home? Can more than 2 rooms be remotely watching a recording?


This is true, everything on one drive, that can't be moved to a new DVR. But I like having only one to do list to manage.

3 rooms can remotely watch a recording.


----------



## armophob (Nov 13, 2006)

armophob said:


> ok, I will use the 3D thing
> 
> Thanks


And so I did,
They are sending me 2 replacement dvrs for my Hr20-700's

Thank you thread

now I have to watch 1000 hours of programming in a week

But they do not want these back. They said the HR20-700 are junk and they want no part of their disposal


----------



## KarenRichmond (Aug 3, 2012)

Shades228 said:


> Yes you would lose your recordings.
> 
> HMC (HR34) can stream up to 3 different streams at a time. Meaning that you could not watch the same show in 2 rooms, without doing crazy things just for the same of proving this statement wrong, but you could watch 2 different shows in 2 rooms.


So it is a step above what you can do now remotely so that is a positive thing.

But seriously they need to do something to copy over your recordings or something. Doesn't anyone coming up with these things realize that a bigger hard drive means more stored recordings?? Hence more you do not want to lose?


----------



## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

KarenRichmond said:


> So it is a step above what you can do now remotely so that is a positive thing.
> 
> But seriously they need to do something to copy over your recordings or something. Doesn't anyone coming up with these things realize that a bigger hard drive means more stored recordings?? Hence more you do not want to lose?


DVR's were made for time shifting not for archiving.


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

"KarenRichmond" said:


> So it is a step above what you can do now remotely so that is a positive thing.
> 
> But seriously they need to do something to copy over your recordings or something. Doesn't anyone coming up with these things realize that a bigger hard drive means more stored recordings?? Hence more you do not want to lose?


There's always hope for the future. Nomad may have just been the beginning.


----------



## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

Well, it's been a month now, and I got my refund check in the mail from DirecTV yesterday. My account has been closed. So I will be taking the HR20-100 to Best Buy tomorrow.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

KarenRichmond said:


> So it is a step above what you can do now remotely so that is a positive thing.
> 
> *But seriously they need to do something to copy over your recordings or something. Doesn't anyone coming up with these things realize that a bigger hard drive means more stored recordings?? Hence more you do not want to lose?*


We've been fighting this battle for years. The "marriage" between HRs and their HDDs should be broken. What we need is a polygamous "marriage" between ANY HR on an account and ANY HDD recorded on an HR within that account. Then, and only then, (he wrote, with tongue in cheek) will I get an HR 34.

Using logic won't get you anywhere. Most of us will agree that D* doesn't care, no matter how logical an argument is.

Rich


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

Shades228 said:


> DVR's were made for time shifting not for archiving.


The only difference between "time shifting" and archiving is the absolute value of the time shift, so in essence there is no difference between them, especially in the context the poster put it....larger disk, more recordings, longer time required to get to them. It's still a time shift, just longer than "next week".

It's a distinction without a difference, in this specific case.

It's not that others haven't asked for archiving, they have. This case, however is a lot closer to time shifting than archiving.

There is no good "copyright" reason to not marry the recordings to the account, which would avoid most of the whole problem. This, of course, has been beaten to death, and is unlikely to happen, although there has never been an explanation from D* as to why they don't tie recordings to accounts instead of DVRs.


----------



## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

hasan said:


> The only difference between "time shifting" and archiving is the absolute value of the time shift, so in essence there is no difference between them, especially in the context the poster put it....larger disk, more recordings, longer time required to get to them. It's still a time shift, just longer than "next week".
> 
> It's a distinction without a difference, in this specific case.
> 
> ...


I understand your point but the distinction would be once the target audience has watched it it goes from time shift to archive.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Shades228 said:


> I understand your point but the distinction would be once the target audience has watched it it goes from time shift to archive.


I don't try to archive anything. Simply because I don't trust the HRs. I wouldn't have twelve active HRs if we could use HDDs on any HR within an account. I've solved the problem with the HRs by using all my HRs to back up each other, but I'd only need 8 HRs if HDDs could be read by other HRs within an account. Archiving has nothing at all to do with my solution. I've got NetFlix if I want to see an older show.

Rich


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## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

armophob said:


> now I have to watch 1000 hours of programming in a week


Since there are only 168 hours in a week you'll have to do a lot of fast-forwarding.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

"Rich" said:


> I don't try to archive anything. Simply because I don't trust the HRs. I wouldn't have twelve active HRs if we could use HDDs on any HR within an account. I've solved the problem with the HRs by using all my HRs to back up each other, but I'd only need 8 HRs if HDDs could be read by other HRs within an account. Archiving has nothing at all to do with my solution. I've got NetFlix if I want to see an older show.
> 
> Rich


Funny.. The only thing I have ever had die on any hr is the hard drive... Something that moving hard drives from one unit to another would not help.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

inkahauts said:


> Funny.. The only thing I have ever had die on any hr is the hard drive... Something that moving hard drives from one unit to another would not help.


Your experiences with D* have been nothing like mine.

In my case, eleven of my twelve active HRs have 2TB drives in them or on them depending on whether they are leased or owned, so moving HDDs from one unit to another would work.

I've written enough times about my setup and my reasoning behind it that I find it "funny" to have to do it again.

Rich


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

"Rich" said:


> Your experiences with D* have been nothing like mine.
> 
> In my case, eleven of my twelve active HRs have 2TB drives in them or on them depending on whether they are leased or owned, so moving HDDs from one unit to another would work.
> 
> ...


Iknow our experiences have been different. That was the point, and i have a feeling that my experience is more the majority, with hard drives being the thing that dies usually, hence moving hard drives alone is not the final answer for most people IMHO. Simply moving hard drives would not have saved me ever from a hr dying, of which I have only had one actually die over the course of having 10 units since they came out. My folks have had one die as well, and they have had a total of six now. Also a hard drive failure.

I have never had any problem other than an hard drive die, so the only thing that would save someone from that is either a raid system for an esata, or doing what you do with 12 hrs, or my preferred solution, create a system where the hrs can simply backup their recordings to an additional USB connected hard drive that isn't running all the time. I'd actually like it set up so it only backs up things that over a week old too. If they did that in conjunction with allowing hard drives to move to any DVR, as long as they are on the same account, then I think you would have a real solution that would work for any situation of a failure of a hr.


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## ChE74 (May 1, 2009)

Canceled DTV some weeks ago. I was told they would send recovery kits to return the 2-leased hr20s. Never heard from them or received anything. Called DTV today and they told me they don't want anything back and I should dispose of them as I saw fit.
2-Hr20s w/cards and dish antenna. I asked about the cards and the CSR said they may want those back, but since it's been so long and I have received an envelope probably don't want those either. 
Asked for and received the CSRs name and emp. # and noted date and time. Now what do I do with what amounts to useless eqp.?
I don't think the HDs are worth saving. One HR is original to me but is 5 yrs. old. The other one is a refurb. also mfgd. ~5 yrs ago. It was on life support for the last few months having to be rebooted 1 or 2 times a month.
Since they don't take up space, I will keep the cards for quite a while until I'm sure that I'm not asked to return them.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

inkahauts said:


> Iknow our experiences have been different. That was the point, and i have a feeling that my experience is more the majority, with hard drives being the thing that dies usually, hence moving hard drives alone is not the final answer for most people IMHO. Simply moving hard drives would not have saved me ever from a hr dying, of which I have only had one actually die over the course of having 10 units since they came out. My folks have had one die as well, and they have had a total of six now. Also a hard drive failure.


I've had two HDD failures and I'm not sure one of them was bad. That's out of over 60 HRs that D* has on my account. That doesn't count all the HRs that I wasn't able to activate or activated and deactivated the same day.

But, to put it frankly, my luck sucks. So, yeah, your experiences have been better than mine. Only once have I gotten the blue screen that says your HDD is shot (a 14 or 75 code, don't remember). I put a large external on that one and it's still running.



> I have never had any problem other than an hard drive die, so the only thing that would save someone from that is either a raid system for an esata, or doing what you do with 12 hrs, or my preferred solution, create a system where the hrs can simply backup their recordings to an additional USB connected hard drive that isn't running all the time. I'd actually like it set up so it only backs up things that over a week old too. If they did that in conjunction with allowing hard drives to move to any DVR, as long as they are on the same account, then I think you would have a real solution that would work for any situation of a failure of a hr.


I suppose I could list most of the problems I've had with all my HRs, but HDDs have not been the primary reason for them going bad.

Rich


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## Racer88 (Sep 13, 2006)

Dumbfounded why the aren't recovering HR20's any more(probably their 2nd best model now) but are still recovering the total POS 21's and the 20's other succesors....


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

"Racer88" said:


> Dumbfounded why the aren't recovering HR20's any more(probably their 2nd best model now) but are still recovering the total POS 21's and the 20's other succesors....


I'd guess age. I am sure they are amortizing these things and have a budget and expected life of how long they will support them, and I'd bet they have reach the end of 
Life for these. I'd guess that the other models will follow in a year or two when they start being as old as the HR20 is now.


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

Exactly, it's an accounting thing (not a performance thing).

After five years the value of the asset is zero, so it is not worth the expense to have it shipped back.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Racer88 said:


> Dumbfounded why the aren't recovering HR20's any more(probably their 2nd best model now) but are still recovering the total POS 21's and the 20's other succesors....


They are getting old, the 20-700s I have left are used only as servers and they're really good at that. Yeah, they were the best HR until the 24s, but age catches up to everything. I started the year off with eight 20-700s, now I'm down to six. Slowly, they fail... :nono2:

Rich


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## Beerstalker (Feb 9, 2009)

Racer88 said:


> Dumbfounded why the aren't recovering HR20's any more(probably their 2nd best model now) but are still recovering the total POS 21's and the 20's other succesors....


They don't support 3D, which DirecTV is trying to help establish. They are old and may start having more issues other than hard drives. The one model takes a special setup for Whole Home DVR that a lot of techs seem not to be able to get to work right, etc. Hardware depreciation tax wise like someone else said.

There are quite a few reasons why they are being EOL'd.


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## tkrandall (Oct 3, 2003)

The thing I dont understand about DirecTV's' stance with returning _their_ equipment that _we lease_ is their refusal to release the customer, in writing, of the need to return equipment (access cards, older model recievers like the HR-20) DirecTV has privately decided, but not publically announced, they no longer want to recover. Not sending a recovery kit and/or verbal assurances do not constitute a legal release. It's just not good business to leave people in limbo like this.


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## CliffV (Jan 24, 2006)

Rich said:


> They are getting old, the 20-700s I have left are used only as servers and they're really good at that. Yeah, they were the best HR until the 24s, but age catches up to everything. I started the year off with eight 20-700s, now I'm down to six. *Slowly, they fail... *:nono2:
> 
> Rich


I just deactivated my last HR20. It was installed 5 years ago. Certainly the hard drive has reached end of life. DirecTv can't want to send that HR20 back out to the field to someone else just to have it fail in a year. That would be very expensive.

BTW. The CSR told me to discard my HR20. I'm waiting for my envelope to return the acccess card arrives.


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## loudo (Mar 24, 2005)

My two HR20-700s are still ticking and not missing a beat. I have had them since late 2006.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

CliffV said:


> I just deactivated my last HR20. It was installed 5 years ago. Certainly the hard drive has reached end of life. DirecTv can't want to send that HR20 back out to the field to someone else just to have it fail in a year. That would be very expensive.
> 
> BTW. The CSR told me to discard my HR20. I'm waiting for my envelope to return the acccess card arrives.


The HDD isn't really a problem, just put an external device and HDD on it.

Rich


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## bwaldron (Oct 24, 2005)

loudo said:


> My two HR20-700s are still ticking and not missing a beat. I have had them since late 2006.


Same here!


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## tkrandall (Oct 3, 2003)

"CliffV" said:


> BTW. The CSR told me to discard my HR20. I'm waiting for my envelope to return the acccess card arrives.


I have 3 vintage 2003 boxes (1 receiver and 2 directivos). that have been off line for 2-5 years when I upgraded to hd dvrs. Directv has never asked for the access cards. Nor released me in writing of them either.


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## CliffV (Jan 24, 2006)

Rich said:


> The HDD isn't really a problem, just put an external device and HDD on it.
> 
> Rich


Actually I was talking about the statistical Annualized Failure Rate (AFR) of the drive in the machine. Once you hit 5 years, you're statistically pushing your luck that a drive will fail. For instance, in google's disk drive study, they found that in the third year 6.8% of all hard drives failed.

In my particular case, the hard drive that shipped with my HR20 is still new. I had replaced that drive with a 750GB internal model the day I got the HR20.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

CliffV said:


> Actually I was talking about the statistical Annualized Failure Rate (AFR) of the drive in the machine. Once you hit 5 years, you're statistically pushing your luck that a drive will fail. For instance, in google's disk drive study, they found that in the third year 6.8% of all hard drives failed.
> 
> In my particular case, the hard drive that shipped with my HR20 is still new. I had replaced that drive with a 750GB internal model the day I got the HR20.


I'm just using my 20-700s as servers now. They seem to be happier... :lol:

Rich


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

"tkrandall" said:


> I have 3 vintage 2003 boxes (1 receiver and 2 directivos). that have been off line for 2-5 years when I upgraded to hd dvrs. Directv has never asked for the access cards. Nor released me in writing of them either.


I believe Those are before the time of leased equipment. A I recall leased equipment started in 2004 or 2005.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

inkahauts said:


> I believe Those are before the time of leased equipment. A I recall leased equipment started in 2004 or 2005.


Regardless of whether the boxes themselves are owned, the cards are property of DIRECTV.


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## Dave in Atlanta (Jan 10, 2007)

I've had a similar experience to several of you; when I upgraded (and moved) I was told my semi-faithful HR20-700 would be recovered using a box they promised to send.

6 weeks later, after a 90 minute phone call to Billing to straighten out the absolute mess DTV had made of my billing, I asked the CSR when I'd get the box. Now she says it is non-recoverable, and that's why they never sent a box.

After asking and checking multiple times, she told me they didn't want it, and she was notating my account. She may have actually done so...

So, I see that HR20s are selling on Ebay for $90 - 150. But they are all labelled as "owned". Mine was leased and is now an orphan. Do I have the right to sell it, and can another DTV subscriber actually use it?


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## loudo (Mar 24, 2005)

Dave in Atlanta said:


> I've had a similar experience to several of you; when I upgraded (and moved) I was told my semi-faithful HR20-700 would be recovered using a box they promised to send.
> 
> 6 weeks later, after a 90 minute phone call to Billing to straighten out the absolute mess DTV had made of my billing, I asked the CSR when I'd get the box. Now she says it is non-recoverable, and that's why they never sent a box.
> 
> ...


There could be a question of DirecTV not selling the new owner of the HR20 a new card for use in the older HR20 units. I think I saw where they will not activating any of them anymore.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

A leased unrecoverable box is still a lease and cannot be sold. The ones on eBay could actually be owned. It all comes down to what the access card department says when given the RID. As for not activating them anymore, I don't think that's necessarily the case. I know you can't buy a really old box that doesn't have an RID and have it added to your account, but that does not include the HR20.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

dpeters11 said:


> A leased unrecoverable box is still a lease and cannot be sold. The ones on eBay could actually be owned. It all comes down to what the access card department says when given the RID. As for not activating them anymore, I don't think that's necessarily the case. I know you can't buy a really old box that doesn't have an RID and have it added to your account, but that does not include the HR20.


The owned 20-700s can still be sold and activated. No leased 20-700s will be activated unless it has never been activated. I called and asked. Kinda hard to find a 20-700 that has never been activated.

Rich


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