# 2nd tv Diplexer problem



## ltbong (Apr 3, 2007)

Hello,

I recently connected a OTA antenna in the attic and used a diplexer to connect the OTA and my 2nd TV output. I also installed a diplexer behind the vip622. 

My problem is that now my 2nd tv gets a snowy picture. I've double checked the diplexer connections several times and I believe I have it connected correctly. I did not have this problem prior to installing the ota antenna.

Any ideas or suggestions guys?

Thanks!


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## n0qcu (Mar 23, 2002)

You can't use a diplexor to to combine OTA and your TV2 output.
You need to use splitters.


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## BNUMM (Dec 24, 2006)

n0qcu said:


> You can't use a diplexor to to combine OTA and your TV2 output.
> You need to use splitters.


Actually you are supposed to use something called the Super Home Node.


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## SuperDNSTech (Jul 10, 2007)

You have to use a splitter. 

From the vhf/uhf port on your diplexer(not the one behind the reciever)
run a line to the IN port of your splitter. Then from one OUT plug in the antenna and from the OUT other plug in to your tv. Put your tv back on whatever the modulated channel is most likely 60(air). You should be getting sat signal, then switch to your OTA channels and they should be coming in as well. If your modulated channel is one the is being used by OTA you will need to just change what channel you sat is modulated to.


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## tollhaus (Jul 15, 2007)

I have a similar question. I would like to add an OTA in the attic and use it for HD locals on TV1 and locals on two other TVs in the house (TV2 and a 3rd with no current service at all). 
I don't know much about diplexers/splitters, but I currently count 3 diplexers installed in my house: the 1st in from the Dish out to VIP622 and TV2, the 2nd and 3rd right behind the VIP622 taking one RG6 line into two COAX Sat-in connections and the TV2 out coax. Does that make sense? 
I'd love some plain english advice on what I need (as far as splitter/diplexer) and where in the lines they should be. 
All the cable in the house run into an OnQ box, which is where the 1st diplexer is and I can get RG6 up to the attic easily from this spot. So I think the connections will be pretty simple if I know what I need to do.
Can the OTA be powered/amplified? The user manual for the VIP622 says no, but I wonder if that's true. 
Thanks!


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## ssmith10pn (Jul 6, 2005)

You would be better off diplexing on the sat feed and leave the TV2 feed alone if that's possible.


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## tollhaus (Jul 15, 2007)

Ok, so I add a diplexer to the coax coming directly from the satellite?
There are three connections on the diplexer. Is this how I should connect it? 
"SAT": (connect direct to dish), "ANT": (connect direct to OTA), and "IN/OUT:" which I'm guessing goes to the "SAT" input of the existing diplexer. Does that sound right? 
Thanks


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## BNUMM (Dec 24, 2006)

tollhaus said:


> I have a similar question. I would like to add an OTA in the attic and use it for HD locals on TV1 and locals on two other TVs in the house (TV2 and a 3rd with no current service at all).
> I don't know much about diplexers/splitters, but I currently count 3 diplexers installed in my house: the 1st in from the Dish out to VIP622 and TV2, the 2nd and 3rd right behind the VIP622 taking one RG6 line into two COAX Sat-in connections and the TV2 out coax. Does that make sense?
> I'd love some plain english advice on what I need (as far as splitter/diplexer) and where in the lines they should be.
> All the cable in the house run into an OnQ box, which is where the 1st diplexer is and I can get RG6 up to the attic easily from this spot. So I think the connections will be pretty simple if I know what I need to do.
> ...


You do not have three diplexers. You have two diplexers and one separator. The one that is connected to the Sat. in connections is a separator. The OTA can be amplified unless you are close to the towers.  If the signal is too strong it can cause problems. Tv1 will be the most difficult and you may want to find someone who knows what they are doing to help. You may have to change the output for tuner 2 so that it is at least 2 channels from the nearest OTA channel.


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## jsk (Dec 27, 2006)

Theoretically, if you use a splitter, it would probably work, but you could be broadcasting your TV2 signal via your antenna. You might want to try it and see if this happens and let us know. I would assume that the signal will wouldn't go very far unless you have a powerful amplifier.


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## ssmith10pn (Jul 6, 2005)

http://www.satelliteinstaller.com/satellite_diplexers.htm

http://www.futurehomesystems.com/v501pop1.html


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## ssmith10pn (Jul 6, 2005)

This diagram is pretty good.


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## tollhaus (Jul 15, 2007)

BNUMM said:


> You do not have three diplexers. You have two diplexers and one separator. The one that is connected to the Sat. in connections is a separator. The OTA can be amplified unless you are close to the towers. If the signal is too strong it can cause problems. Tv1 will be the most difficult and you may want to find someone who knows what they are doing to help. You may have to change the output for tuner 2 so that it is at least 2 channels from the nearest OTA channel.


I concur that I have 2 diplexers and a separator.

As far as the amplified antenna will anything be damaged if I'm too close to the tower or is it just going to cause signal problems/static/etc. I'm ok with hooking things up and they don't work so I redo it. I am not ok with frying tv equipment and buying new stuff.


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## gilunionhall (May 8, 2006)

i have used the same wiring diagram that ssmith10pn had in a previous reply.

in fact the dish installer did it as part of our install to get to a part of the house that was only wired with 1 rg6 coax run.

gil


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## CABill (Mar 20, 2005)

The concern about sending the RF output to the antenna is that you would be broadcasting your 622 (w/o a license for the channel). You shouldn't be doing it, but might make it from the house to a shed/barn - where you don't have neighbors to bother.

Not important, but you really do have three diplexers. A separate IS a diplexer - it just happens that the two frequencies the separator diplexes are to split the 950-1450MHz and 1650-2150MHz which is different from what commonly used DBS diplexers do - separate < 950 MHz from > 950 MHz. Calling it a diplexer is quite correct from a technical standpoint, but a source of confusion with the "normal" use of diplexer here. Non-DBS use includes many other frequency range combine & split.


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## tollhaus (Jul 15, 2007)

CABill said:


> Not important, but you really do have three diplexers. A separate IS a diplexer - it just happens that the two frequencies the separator diplexes are to split the 950-1450MHz and 1650-2150MHz which is different from what commonly used DBS diplexers do - separate < 950 MHz from > 950 MHz. Calling it a diplexer is quite correct from a technical standpoint, but a source of confusion with the "normal" use of diplexer here. Non-DBS use includes many other frequency range combine & split.


Thanks for the tip. I had never even heard of a diplexer before Wednesday, so I'm learning fast.


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## tollhaus (Jul 15, 2007)

CABill said:


> The concern about sending the RF output to the antenna is that you would be broadcasting your 622 (w/o a license for the channel). You shouldn't be doing it, but might make it from the house to a shed/barn - where you don't have neighbors to bother.


So if I have neighbors close by should I worry about this? I know just about everyone in the neighborhood is using D* and has a second dish to pick up locals, I think. Would I be bothering anyone?


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## tollhaus (Jul 15, 2007)

I understand the diagrams except there aren't connections for TV2 (or 3, 4, etc..). 
How does this crude drawing look as far as adding the TV2 connection? The red arrows are pieces I'm adding, and the thick green lines are RG6 coax that is in my walls already (for my own notes more than anything). I added the "extra Sat in" and "out to TV2" connections on the DSS Rec., but it is supposed to be all one box.

Also, I was rereading the posts at the very beginning of this thread and I'm confused about the use of the splitter vs. the diplexer to get to TV2 feed. I would like to be able to watch locals live on TV2 and I understand that the 622 will not put them out through the TV2 feed as part of the EPG. Should the diplexer with the output to TV2 be a splitter instead?

Thanks for all the help!


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## BNUMM (Dec 24, 2006)

tollhaus said:


> I concur that I have 2 diplexers and a separator.
> 
> As far as the amplified antenna will anything be damaged if I'm too close to the tower or is it just going to cause signal problems/static/etc. I'm ok with hooking things up and they don't work so I redo it. I am not ok with frying tv equipment and buying new stuff.


It will overdrive the signal which will cause the tuner to lose the signal.


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## tollhaus (Jul 15, 2007)

Does the gain adjustment on the amplified antenna have anything to do with that? With the gain turned up only about 50%, the digital signal strengths for the channels that I want are all around 70-80 according to the 622.


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## tollhaus (Jul 15, 2007)

Oh yeah... when I make the various short connections, which ones MUST be with RG6 instead of R59? I have a ton of R59 jumpers around but I'd have to make the RG6 jumpers.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

tollhaus said:


> Should the diplexer with the output to TV2 be a splitter instead?


There should be a splitter on the ANT out of the top diplexer that goes from there to the ViP622 ANT in and the ViP622 home distribution out.

You use splitters to join (or split) OTA with OTA and diplexers to join (or separate) OTA and SAT.

After the top diplexer, there is no more OTA signal left to split out with the bottom diplexer.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

tollhaus said:


> Oh yeah... when I make the various short connections, which ones MUST be with RG6 instead of R59?


Don't waste your time (nor signal) with RG59. If you have some shorties, they can be used ONLY on the OTA frequencies, but know that the signal will be somewhat diminished (especially if you use high UHF frequencies). If you're sending the signal out in multiple directions, you don't want to waste it on cable loss.

Any included RG59 cables were intended to be used only to connect to a TV tuner (and most have a label saying exactly that). In the industry, this is known as "last mile".


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## tollhaus (Jul 15, 2007)

I know that I keep replying to myself, but I did some more research and came up with some more info, I think. 

This diagram should allow my OTA to go to my Vip6222 and TV2 and 3, I believe. It should also allow either TV2 or TV3 to work as TV2, right? 

Thanks for all your help! 
>>> I removed the image and posted a new diagram below which follows Harsh's comments.<<


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## tollhaus (Jul 15, 2007)

harsh said:


> There should be a splitter on the ANT out of the top diplexer that goes from there to the ViP622 ANT in and the ViP622 home distribution out.


Ok... how about this:


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## isuzudave (Sep 29, 2006)

I am no expert, but I think you need to get rid of the second from the top diplexer in your diagram. I think with that diplexer wired like that it would block you OTA to the receiver. If you get rid of it I think you would back feed your TV2 output up your OTA cable all the way to the top splitter and your home dist. center. You might end up broadcasting your TV2 from your antenna though.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Yes, he's doing it again with the two diplexers; I warned about this in post #21. They must be used only in combine-separate pairs. The second diplexer is going to stop one or the other signal from getting through.

There needs to be another splitter opposite the LNB; one leg coming in from the antenna splitter and the other leg going out to the distribution system "combiner". I'm pretty sure this is going to require an OTA amplifier with four splitters involved.

This is probably asking too much of diplexers to be going all different directions. Technically, it might work, but there is going to be some serious signal degradation and it will be next to impossible to troubleshoot.


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## red hazard (Apr 11, 2004)

tollhaus said:


> Ok... how about this:
> 
> (see previous image thread)
> ASSUMPTIONS:
> ...


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## tollhaus (Jul 15, 2007)

Hmmm... ok, I barely understood that. 

The "Home Dist. Center" is simply an 8 way splitter. In the utility room of my house all the coax in the house (RG6) runs into an OnQ box and I can easily make connections here. 

I have tried to run an additional RG6 cable and it wasn't worth the effort in the wall where it would have to go. The ant. I'm using is a simple indoor amplified antenna. I wanted to just run the RG6 from that (upstairs) to the box in the utility room and make all the connections there (the splitters and extra diplexers that I'm trying to use). I think from re-reading Harsh's post and I think I can finally wrap my brain around this. 

Basically my HD locals aren't available through Dish in my area, so I bought the ant. Since I already spent money on the ant. I figured I'd save $5/month and cancel the locals from Dish. Since I was cancelling the locals from dish, I figured I'd try to get locals to TV2 so that we can watch the locals in there while the VIP622 is in Dual mode. 

Would dropping one of the diplexers off the top of the diagram and simply connecting the "TV2 out" feed and the Antennae to a splitter. (I'll post a new diagram in case I'm not being clear.) 

Ignore the HDC, just think of it as TV2 (since I only have one other TV in the house and I am ok with them mirroring each other, just think of them as one entity). 

Thanks for all the help, guys... sorry I'm a bit slow.


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## tollhaus (Jul 15, 2007)

How about this one?

I'm going to try it tomorrow or Tuesday and I'll let you know. (The only delay is making a few RG6 short cables.)


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## isuzudave (Sep 29, 2006)

I think that should work.


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## red hazard (Apr 11, 2004)

That may work. My only concerns are the approx 13 dB (~95%) loss between the OTA antenna and the V/UHF TV input into the 622 and the loss in the 8-way splitter to TV2/3 (unless its amplified). Post your results please. R U receiving from the Austin or Waco DMAs?

BTW I plan on retiring in your area in about a year.


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## tollhaus (Jul 15, 2007)

I'm getting my stations from Waco, mostly. I'll definitely post if it works (or not).

Thanks for all the help.

Are splitters really directional? And by that I mean, can I have the Antenna connected to one of the extra "OUT" spots on the 8 way splitter? If the antenna and the two TVs were connected to three "outs" and the "TV2 OUT" from the VIP622 was in the IN then all the signals should get distributed, I'd think. It it worked, it'd cut out one more splitter to preserve some signal strength.


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## tollhaus (Jul 15, 2007)

I just hooked it up as drawn in my last post (#32). Currently I have nothing hooked to the "in" of the 6 way splitter (not 8 way as I thought). I have 4 cables hooked to the "outs" -- Antenna, TV2, TV3 and RG6 to the diplexer which then goes to the VIP622 location. 

The good news is that My locals pass through to the VIP622 on the one RG6 cable that's in the walls. That gives me the HD Locals on TV1. 
More good news... the locals also get to the other TV just like good ole fashion off air channels.

The bad news, though, is that the TV2 signal is degraded and almost unusable. It could be because there is an off-air channel nearby (62 I think... and the TV2 output is coming in on 60). 

I've played with a few combinations of what comes "in" to the 6 way splitter and which go out. Any suggestions? 

How would I just use the OTA for the HD Locals (going to VIP622 input) but still get the signal from tuner #2 out to my 2nd TV? (Basically I'd give up on getting my weak antenna all over the house, but I still want to use the 2nd tuner over the RG6 to TV2 in the bedroom. 

Thanks again.


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## tollhaus (Jul 15, 2007)

I switched the modulated channel and we're in business. 

With the diagram in post #32, I'm getting the locals throughout the house (VIP622, TV2 in the bedroom and the TV3 upstairs) and the TV2 output to both TV2 and TV3. In the diagram, the "Home Dist Ctr" represents a 6-way splitter with the "IN" port connected to the "VHF/UHF" of the diplexer that is closes to the Sat Dish outside. Three "OUT" ports are occupied by the Antenna and RG6 x 2 to two other rooms in the house (TV2 and TV3). 

The only weird thing seems to be that the local ABC (channel 25 has dropped out completely). It had about 70 on the signal strength before (when I had a cable running through my living room directly to the Ant In port on the VIP622). Even on the TVs getting ABC-25 over the air there is just a blank screen… not static like all the other channels without service. 

Thanks for the help!


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## ssmith10pn (Jul 6, 2005)

You need a line amp for the OTA between the antenna and the first splitter.

Probably 25 DB


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