# Google's invasion of privacy problem



## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

In the Silicon Beat tech blog of the Silicon Valley Mercury News comes this story about Google's latest patent *Google wants to know where you have coffee, dinner and tequila shots* which adds details to this summary:



> Now, according to a patent Google received Tuesday for "systems and methods for generating a user location history," the company isn't satisfied with knowing your location by its GPS or map coordinates. Google wants to know when you're at home, when you're at which coffee shop, where you're eating dinner, and to which bar you go to drink with friends.


Now I may be paranoid, but....

At the very time Google wants you to consider their new Pixel smart phone as the phone you keep with you 24/7, they explain in their patent:



> Here's an example of what the patent envisions: "According to the user's location history, on Sept. 18, 2013 the user was at the user's home at about 9:30 AM; spent about 20 minutes in the Mission District area; was at the user's workplace from about 10:30 AM to 8:30 PM; spent about 1 hour in the Visticon Valley area; was at The Whiskey Club bar from about 10:45 PM to 11:15 PM; was at Coffee Shop from about 11:30 PM to 11:45 PM; and then returned home at midnight."
> 
> How, then, would Google figure out which places you visited? By combing through all the other personal data it can collect on you, from emails you've sent and received, to photographs you've taken, to receipts from mobile-payment purchases you've made, to your requests for directions, to the content of your social media posts and, of course, to your search history, according to the patent document.


If you're a bit paranoid like me, when you read the last two paragraphs in the article your mind will


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

The old saw, _"Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get me"_, fits me to a "T".

I don't drink very much any more, almost none at all, but I buy and keep booze (beer, wine & my old
pals Jack, Jim and Johnny) on hand for my alcoholic friends. Not wanting my bank, Google, God or
the Government to think I'm an brain-addled booze hound, I've recently started paying cash for my
alcohol purchases rather than using my debit card.

It's not that I'm paranoid, but, well, ya know how it is... :grin:


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

Science Fiction (AKA Predictive History) coming into play. This was all predicted in George Orwell's "1984".


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## yosoyellobo (Nov 1, 2006)

MysteryMan said:


> Science Fiction (AKA Predictive History) coming into play. This was all predicted in George Orwell's "1984".


Phillip K Dick turn into a art form. I wonder what Kafka would have thought about it.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

MysteryMan said:


> Science Fiction (AKA Predictive History) coming into play. This was all predicted in George Orwell's "1984".


Sort of. The "1984" prediction was of government surveillance and control of the public through surveillance. Google is not the government and they are not seeking authoritarian control over the world.

We volunteer for private surveillance every day through the places we visit and the products we use.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Now now people. Google just wants to give us all alibis in case we are ever questioned for breaking the law. That's all...


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

inkahauts said:


> Now now people. Google just wants to give us all alibis in case we are ever questioned for breaking the law. That's all...


I am waiting for the hacks. The story has probably been used on CSI: Cyber or another technology fiction show. Frame a person for murder and make them appear guilty through modifying their device tracking. And if they suspect too much hack their Google Maps to make them drive somewhere where they will be killed.

We know everything about you ... but if you know too much about us you are going down.


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## yosoyellobo (Nov 1, 2006)

James Long said:


> I am waiting for the hacks. The story has probably been used on CSI: Cyber or another technology fiction show. Frame a person for murder and make them appear guilty through modifying their device tracking. And if they suspect too much hack their Google Maps to make them drive somewhere where they will be killed.We know everything about you ... but if you know too much about us you are going down.


There are over three hundred million people in the United States. I am pretty sure that google has something better to do than to frame me unless they have nothing better to do.


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## Dude111 (Aug 6, 2010)

They dont know anything about me and wont If I can help it!


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

Dude111 said:


> They dont know anything about me and wont If I can help it!


They know the Dude abides...


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## dennisj00 (Sep 27, 2007)

They know a lot more than you think they do.

I just recently got a car loan from an online credit union and to sign the documents I had to answer 20 questions to confirm my identity.

The questions included addresses that I or my spouse lived at 20+ years ago, car loans from 1990s, models of those cars, and companies that I had done business with. Many things that I could not remember.

In talking with their customer service to get the documents resent, she explained that the questions were created from my data that was public record. Things I couldn't even remember!


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## yosoyellobo (Nov 1, 2006)

Yet you still have to prove that you are human.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

I did the "20 questions" thing when doing e-signatures for a mortgage earlier this year. Several rounds of preliminary documents and I still had to go in and sign and initial a thick document at the office.

Fortunately it was multiple guess ... but it was a test of my memory.


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## Wilf (Oct 15, 2008)

If you use a grocery store loyalty card, the store knows a lot about you - approximate income, if you have pets, kids, if you throw lavish parties, if you suffer from constipation - you get the idea.


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

Wilf said:


> If you use a grocery store loyalty card, the store knows a lot about you - approximate income, if you have pets, kids, if you throw lavish parties, if you suffer from constipation - you get the idea.


Not necessarily, if you do like me and sign up with a fake name, address and phone number.
Every time I shop, my supermarket chain's computer thinks it is _William W. Williams_, living
at a non-existent address with a phony phone #. I still get the discounts, just not the mailers.

Don't give out your _actual_ personal info unless you absolutely have to and you've absolutely
no other choice. As for credit and loans, go to your bank or credit union and apply in person.
Limit the number of times your personal info floats across the interwebs - you never know
who (or what) is watching. Restrict who gets access to your personal data like you lock your
doors - you _do_ lock your doors, don't you?


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

We have no doors that are not all glass or do not contain large glass panes. Locking the door is a delusion in our house and many, many others. But we do try to keep out those under the age of five.

Which is pretty much like trying to keep personal information safe when you're active on the internet. I pretty sure those under the age of five can't hack their way into my personal information ... pretty sure, but not positive.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Nick said:


> Not necessarily, if you do like me and sign up with a fake name, address and phone number.
> Every time I shop, my supermarket chain's computer thinks it is _William W. Williams_, living
> at a non-existent address with a phony phone #. I still get the discounts, just not the mailers.
> 
> ...


Door locks keep out people who love on simple opportunity. They don't keep out people who target...

Applying online at home or inside the bank really just isn't any different anymore. There's no advantage unless you are on an unsecured wireless network at your home. You are kind of dreaming if you think it's any different anymore.

I love the fake name. I use a slightly fake birthday for most things as well. Anything not finically anyway. I do enjoy my free popcorn at the movies on my birthday

I will use my name sometimes but I don't use the full legal name I actually sign stuff with. Just depends on what it's for.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

I lock the doors for insurance purposes ... if I claim I can tell the insurance company that the door was locked. I do not expect the locked door would be much of a deterrent to anyone serious - but it changes the crime to breaking and entering instead of something less.

(My former boss had his car stolen a few years ago ... the keys were left in it, so the crime was less than grand theft auto.)

The visible security cameras outside are probably a better deterrent.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

A security company sign is all it takes, even if you don't have their services. If that does not stop someone from going in, nothing will.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

I use a layered security system. Domestic geese to alert everyone someone or something is on our property. A 146 pound dog to alert the intruder he knows you're there. ADT to alert the authorities. Colt, Smith & Wesson, ect. to entertain the intruder while waiting for the authorities to arrive.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

OK, so I'm looking at smartphone options out there for eventually replacing my phone. Google's new Pixel phone is one of those. I'm reading a review on ZDNet when I was startled by this:



> You can activate Google Assistant at any time by saying "OK Google," or by long-pressing the home button. Voice commands are recognized almost instantly, even from across the room, which is something I continually struggle with when using Siri.
> 
> My "Aha!" moment with Google Assistant came during a text conversation with someone who was on vacation. As she recapped her day, she told me of a hike she and her husband took to Hanging Lake in Glenwood Springs, CO., and suggested I look it up.
> 
> ...


Oh wow, really cool ...







... or not.

What I understand from this is that inside the Pixel smartphone - using an AI system - Google can accurately monitor the content of your texts, both received and sent!

Now the reviewer is no tech neophyte - for over five years his writing has appeared not only on ZDnet, but CNET, WIRED, Fortune.com and others. Yet nothing about this bothers him. So I have to wonder if it is just me.

Do people really want a phone with AI that reads their text message exchanges??? Does it listen to you phone conversations so that if you say to the friend you're talking with you need directions to the location your friend is at, a map will just pop up??? It isn't like these nifty software developments aren't hackable. Don't we need a national international conversation about this before it's implemented???

I never worried all that much about the government gathering data. But I do have grave concerns about private companies gathering more data than the NSA could ever dream of gathering. I guess I'm just too old to accept the idea that if I carry my smartphone into the bathroom, because of the amount of time and noises I make the phone will start streaming video ads from Ex-Lax....


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

There seems two ways to accomplish this, Apple decided to do this without the data leaving your phone, but there are limitations with this set up, Google has decided to let their servers to the heavy lifting, this way more can be done at the cost of less privacy. I would prefer the Apple way, but if worse come to worse, Google's way does not bothers me. I have nothing to hide. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

peds48 said:


> There seems two ways to accomplish this, Apple decided to do this without the data leaving your phone, but there are limitations with this set up, Google has decided to let their servers to the heavy lifting, this way more can be done at the cost of less privacy. I would prefer the Apple way, but if worse come to worse, Google's way does not bothers me.* I have nothing to hide*.


Neither do I but I don't want anyone spying on me in my home, especially
in the bathroom and bedroom. Famous last words of the 'I have nothing
to hide' crowd' as they're dragged off without due process to one of those
secret government detention centers will be _"...but I had nothing to hide."_

Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get me. :alterhase


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

"I don't have anything hide" seems like the answer, but it isn't.

In theory I don't have to allow the nice folks at these private companies access to my data. But that doesn't seem to work too well if you want to use the internet. Now I don't care if they send me ads, but as I said if I carry my smartphone into the bathroom, because of the amount of time and noises I make the phone will start streaming video ads from Ex-Lax, I'm going to start feeling like my life has been invaded.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

phrelin said:


> "I don't have anything hide" seems like the answer, but it isn't.
> 
> In theory I don't have to allow the nice folks at these private companies access to my data. But that doesn't seem to work too well if you want to use the internet. Now I don't care if they send me ads, but as I said if I carry my smartphone into the bathroom, because of the amount of time and noises I make the phone will start streaming video ads from Ex-Lax, I'm going to start feeling like my life has been invaded.


then you have some options. one, don't use their product and second if you do, don't take it to the bathroom.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

peds48 said:


> then you have some options. one, don't use their product and second if you do, don't take it to the bathroom.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes, but given what we're being told about the use of IoT devices in the recent internet attack, it looks like I'm going to have to reject a lot of new products/devices/appliances in the near future.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

phrelin said:


> Yes, but given what we're being told about the use of IoT devices in the recent internet attack, it looks like I'm going to have to reject a lot of new products/devices/appliances in the near future.


 you can get the products/devices just don't connect them to the interwebs.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

What would be the point of buying an IoT device if it was not connected?

It narrows the choice to "don't use their product" ... with the hope that there are non-IOT products available that can fill the void. For example, when all TV manufacturers decide to make "smart" TVs where does one find a dumb TV that isn't IoT? When all automakers decide to make "smart" cars it will be harder to buy a dumb car. The IOT is invading a lot of "things".


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

James Long said:


> What would be the point of buying an IoT device if it was not connected?


well, assuming that we were in a time where everything was smart, you can still get away old school. For example, if you buy a Nest to DON'T need to connect it to the net, you will loose some features, but you can still program it by hand. You can buy an Smart TV, but you don't need to connect it to the net. You get the point.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dennisj00 (Sep 27, 2007)

From reports of last weeks attack, most of the devices were directly connected to the internet instead of behind a router / firewall.


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