# DirecTV GUI Menu Layout Design



## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

The DirecTV GUI Menu layout is not consisted on all screens.

The GUI left column, at least, should be the same width on all screens. The column width should be the PIG width that's above the left column on ALL screens.

With this done, the right column can be expanded upwards on many of the screens.

Or they can do the reverse. Reduce the size of the PIG to the left column narrowest width. The result to the right column is the same. It is allowed to expand upward.

With PIG controls gone, it is nothing but a small screen taking up space. Its size no longer matters.


----------



## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

I don't think they would waste any time with what you are suggesting considering mike white said they are working on a new html gui.


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

But he didn't say that anything would come of it, the only quote I saw was that they showed it to him and that they would consider it "if it made any sense".


----------



## Aridon (Mar 13, 2007)

There is a good bit of wasted space in the gui. Hopefully if they release a new one they will tighten things up some and expand the info shown. TiVo has a decent guide info wise as a good example.


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

inkahauts said:


> I don't think they would waste any time with what you are suggesting considering mike white said they are working on a new html gui.


It is never too early (or too late) to worry about screen composition as the tools used shouldn't be the determining factor in how the screens are layed out.


----------



## ep1974 (May 22, 2010)

inkahauts said:


> I don't think they would waste any time with what you are suggesting considering mike white said they are working on a new html gui.


An update to the guide would be welcome. When did he say a new guide would be available?


----------



## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

If Directv would copy Tivo's "live guide" option, they'd really have something. The standard "grid" guide they and pretty much every cable company uses really sucks. Once you start using the live guide layout you'll never want to go back to the old grid guide and it will piss you off every time you are forced to use some inferior STB that doesn't have it.

Grid guide like everyone else's:









Live guide:


----------



## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

yep, it's pretty/modern, and productive.


----------



## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

slice1900 said:


> If Directv would copy Tivo's "live guide" option, they'd really have something. The standard "grid" guide they and pretty much every cable company uses really sucks. Once you start using the live guide layout you'll never want to go back to the old grid guide and it will piss you off every time you are forced to use some inferior STB that doesn't have it.
> 
> Grid guide like everyone else's:
> 
> ...


Wrong. I can't stand the live guide as the main solution. It's fine sometimes, and directv does have a version of it... Hit info on the channel name..

But the grid guide is much better overall for seeing what's on at a glance in the evening and what's set to be recorded across multiple channels. You can't do that with their live guide.

Personally I think pressing the guide button should rotate you through single line guide, grid guide, and a live guide like TiVo. Then everyone would get all options with one button. Easy as can be. And let us set the default that pops up first just as they do now in the settings for the first press of the guide button.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Aridon (Mar 13, 2007)

I love the new show tag for first run episodes in the guide and recorded show list on the TiVo. Same with the extra time slots and the sharpness of the whole thing. Direct tv guide looks low res.

Don't get me wrong direct tv has some awesome features over the TiVo but it would be nice if or guide was better.


----------



## ejbvt (Aug 14, 2011)

Add channel logos to that guide and I would pay a fee for it. It's glorious!


----------



## sangs (Apr 2, 2008)

inkahauts said:


> Wrong. I can't stand the live guide as the main solution. It's fine sometimes, and directv does have a version of it... Hit info on the channel name..
> 
> But the grid guide is much better overall for seeing what's on at a glance in the evening and what's set to be recorded across multiple channels. You can't do that with their live guide.
> 
> ...


100 times ditto. When I had Tivo I was so grateful there was another option besides that dreadful Live Guide.


----------



## ep1974 (May 22, 2010)

ejbvt said:


> Add channel logos to that guide and I would pay a fee for it. It's glorious!


Agree, would like to see channel logos next to the channel #. There's certainley room on the left part of the guide......Is the guide update just a rumor or is there something concrete??


----------



## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

I like the Live option, but I will agree with inkahauts and sangs I'd rather the standard grid guide.


----------



## I WANT MORE (Oct 3, 2006)

Grid Guide for me. Thank you. :blackeye:


----------



## Aridon (Mar 13, 2007)

You aren't forced to use either guide. They both have their uses. Options are nice.


----------



## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

Agreed. Options are nice.


----------



## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

Options

I once suggested that they do preset options for things like color and font sizes, etc. but were told DirecTV boxes are not capable of any options. Options require memory and that is what DirecTV boxes seriously lack.

So we can have the GUI in any color as long as it is blue.


----------



## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

Drucifer said:


> Options
> 
> I once suggested that they do preset options for things like color and font sizes, etc. but were told DirecTV boxes are not capable of any options. Options require memory and that is what DirecTV boxes seriously lack.
> 
> So we can have the GUI in any color as long as it is blue.


LOL, yes before directv starts messing around with guides changes, maybe they should wait until the one they have stops freezing up on a weekly basis.

I'll check back in 3 years.


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

inkahauts said:


> Personally I think pressing the guide button should rotate you through single line guide, grid guide, and a live guide like TiVo. Then everyone would get all options with one button. Easy as can be. And let us set the default that pops up first just as they do now in the settings for the first press of the guide button.


Simple to be sure, but certainly not desirable if you favor the fourth option and have to repeatedly press the guide key to get there. Imagine the frustration of a user who has a box (but not necessarily all of their boxes) that isn't responding to key-presses consistently.

Remembering how to get places based on a variable current state is very difficult to communicate. Not as bad as having to remember what colored buttons do in a particular context, but difficult nonetheless.

Of course the issue isn't the TiVo grid but making significant improvements to the DIRECTV GUI and I think everyone can agree that there's a lot of room for that -- if only just making the grid cover more hours and maybe more channels. We use the examples to show that it can be done, not necessarily how it should be done.


----------



## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

harsh said:


> Simple to be sure, but certainly not desirable if you favor the fourth option and have to repeatedly press the guide key to get there. Imagine the frustration of a user who has a box (but not necessarily all of their boxes) that isn't responding to key-presses consistently.
> 
> Remembering how to get places based on a variable current state is very difficult to communicate. Not as bad as having to remember what colored buttons do in a particular context, but difficult nonetheless.
> 
> Of course the issue isn't the TiVo grid but making significant improvements to the DIRECTV GUI and I think everyone can agree that there's a lot of room for that -- if only just making the grid cover more hours and maybe more channels. We use the examples to show that it can be done, not necessarily how it should be done.


maybe you missed the part where I said you should be able to set the default first up.


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

inkahauts said:


> maybe you missed the part where I said you should be able to set the default first up.


Even otherwise harmonious couples don't agree on which metaphor is best and more importantly, who's owns the privilege of the default.


----------



## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

harsh said:


> Even otherwise harmonious couples don't agree on which metaphor is best and more importantly, who's owns the privilege of the default.


There are many things that "harmonious couples" don't agree on, but yet, they live happily&#8230;.


----------



## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

harsh said:


> Even otherwise harmonious couples don't agree on which metaphor is best and more importantly, who's owns the privilege of the default.


And that matters who and why? It's got to be one way or the other you aren't going to have two different buttons to push to get to different guides other than the one line guide.


----------



## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

I'd like to see a 2 or 3 row mini guide (blue / enter button). 

The TiVo grid looks great with the extended number of channels vs time, but the big font looks a little cluttered.


----------



## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

harsh said:


> Even otherwise harmonious couples don't agree on which metaphor is best and more importantly, who's owns the privilege of the default.


Yeah, not sure what that has to do with his proposal for a single setting that controls the initial display of the guide, after which the user can then press GUIDE repeatedly to toggle the guide style while the guide is active. That was perfectly clear to me from the onset.

By the way, you know DIRECTV already allows customers to set the default action for the GUIDE button to display either a grid guide or a guide category menu? So the framework for inkahauts' suggestion is already in place and all that needs to be built is an alternate guide display style and toggle actions. Couples are somehow living with the heavy weight of their guide choice right now and I'm sure they will survive another choice as a default.


----------



## compnurd (Apr 23, 2007)

I loved tivos grid guide. Could not stand the live guide. My only complaint about TiVo was the lack of integrated playlist. Otherwise loved the premiere/roamio software 


Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk


----------



## ep1974 (May 22, 2010)

Sixto said:


> yep, it's pretty/modern, and productive.


Any idea as to when we can expect to see a guide update and what kind of updates can we expect??


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

There has been mention of a new UI, but no one knows if/when that will happen, at least anyone that can admit to the knowledge online.


----------



## Delroy E Walleye (Jun 9, 2012)

I continue to wish (hopelessly) that they'd bring back the mini-menus. I never got used to the cumbersome drop-down BS forced upon us even well before the HD UI was fully implemented. I almost quit back then, but alas there was (and still _is_) no better overall HD experience available, yet.

When the UI finally went HD, there _was_ a noticeable improvement in the HD picture, as well, and I gladly accepted the loss of graphics on the SD outputs (with its workarounds, of course).

When I finally made a recent purchase of a 60" plasma panel I was absolutely stunned at the amount of detail not only in the picture, but the graphics (movie and show posters) as well. This on still older HR2x DVRs.

Anyway, no complaint on appearance, here. Only the cumbersome re-design of the interface back then.


----------



## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Delroy E Walleye said:


> I continue to wish (hopelessly) that they'd bring back the mini-menus. I never got used to the cumbersome drop-down BS forced upon us even well before the HD UI was fully implemented. I almost quit back then, but alas there was (and still _is_) no better overall HD experience available, yet.
> 
> When the UI finally went HD, there _was_ a noticeable improvement in the HD picture, as well, and I gladly accepted the loss of graphics on the SD outputs (with its workarounds, of course).
> 
> ...


What mini menus are you referring to?


----------



## acostapimps (Nov 6, 2011)

I would like to see channel logos in the Guide as well because it would be easier to find channels that way
instead of HIST or DISC or AHCH, I know what those channels are but not everybody else in the house.

I get asked all the time from kids What channel is Disney Channel on? Since all you see is DISeHD on Guide
Poster shows are nice though.


----------



## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

inkahauts said:


> What mini menus are you referring to?


My guess is the context-sensitive menus that popped out of the bottom left of the screen, back in the original GUI. Hit MENU and you'd get a different menu based on where you started...


----------



## ep1974 (May 22, 2010)

acostapimps said:


> I would like to see channel logos in the Guide as well because it would be easier to find channels that way
> instead of HIST or DISC or AHCH, I know what those channels are but not everybody else in the house.
> 
> I get asked all the time from kids What channel is Disney Channel on? Since all you see is DISeHD on Guide
> Poster shows are nice though.


Totally agree. IMO, I believe it looks better and makes it easier for all to identify a certain channel. Maybe one day.


----------



## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

The logos are on the smartphone/tablet apps and website, so maybe someday. iPhone 5 is 640x1136 and they fit so surely they should fit on 1920x1080.


----------



## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Logos with channel call signs like we have now would probably be way to much and make everything to busy. I'm much more concerned with more hours and more lines in the guide myself.


----------



## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

acostapimps said:


> I would like to see channel logos in the Guide as well because it would be easier to find channels that way
> instead of HIST or DISC or AHCH, I know what those channels are but not everybody else in the house.


I dont watch shows because of where they air. When looking for something to record, I peruse the guide and what ever "looks" interesting, gets the recorded, regardless of channel


----------



## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

I see peds point. Then how about a remote with a key and mic to incorporate voice search? An RC73 (or something like that). I think voice search is great, but it's a pain to have to unlock the smart phone, find the app, launch it, wait for it to load... Wait... And wait.... And wait... And then find the voice search option then wait and then finally use it.

Having it on the remote and using the RF send the voice signature to the HR44 and out the Internet, now that would be convenient vs navigating a guide.

It's a pain to search in smart search or YouTube or type out an artist in Pandora. On any text field it would be nice to hold down a key and speak into the remote and have the system do voice to text. I use this all the time on my phone for texting.


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

inkahauts said:


> Logos with channel call signs like we have now would probably be way to much and make everything to busy.


What you're talking about has already been done on other platforms and it isn't any messier than the current ad/logo situation.


----------



## Delroy E Walleye (Jun 9, 2012)

inkahauts said:


> What mini menus are you referring to?


IIRC (It's been a while, but I think up until recently the SD Dvrs were still using the old interface - it used to appear in the customer info channel loop) "Menu" would bring up the "main" popup, while the long-missed yellow button would bring up a different popup. Imagine, for example, only two or three button pushes for caption or subtitle access (as opposed to the seven or eight button pushes, now). Also there was instant access to bookmarks with timestamps and ability to remove them or jump to instantly, not having to slog through all the tick marks, instant access to caller ID info, with the last few calls right in the menu.

About the only thing the dropdown banner design might've gotten right was relatively easy favorites access with add/remove function. Otherwise, IMO, a klutzy interface by comparison.


----------



## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

The live guide is HORRIBLE. Who would only want to see 30 min of the guide at a time? That's a HUGE step back. If they want to clean up the guide, the only improvement that is needed to get rid of the ads. I mean, jesus, this isn't the internet, I'm actually PAYING for this service. To show me ads is absurd. While we're on the topic of huge steps back, another improvement would be bringing back PIG controls.


----------



## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

ep1974 said:


> Any idea as to when we can expect to see a guide update and what kind of updates can we expect??


DirecTV has said that they are working on a HTML 5 based UI, but there are no details about design or delivery date. I wouldn't hold my breath.

BTW, regardless of which guide (Grid or Live) you choose on TiVo, they are FAST!! The TiVo *Mini *runs circles around the HR44 in terms of speed.

The Live Guide has always been the sort of thing you either hate or love. It is very handy for selecting programs to record where you know the channel but not the broadcast time, and when there are program marathons on a channel.


----------



## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

I think the HTML5 guide was an experiment just to see if it could be done. Of course it can be done, the receiver is basically a little linux computer. Thing is how do they present it in HTML5? Is it streamed over your broadband connection? Are all the HTML assets stored locally? How much memory does that take up? If a lot, is it limited to DVR's only (because they have hard drives)?

I'm not so sure I would expect to see a radical GUI overhaul so soon. I mean iGuide on Cable still looks the same since 2001. Maybe there will be little gradual evolution here and there, but I would def. not expect an overhaul. The GUI looks professional and is visually appealing, its just a few improvements could be made. Every time there's a complete overhaul means a complete retooling of support channels, manuals, help, online guides, CSR and front line training, etc... This is why Cable has virtually remained the same for the last 10+ years. How many years has the light blue and white guide been in effect prior to the dark blue and black guide that predates it? Heck the light blue and white guide is still in use on SD boxes with no intention to at least alter the color scheme to somewhat match the HD-GUI, understanding that it won't be in HD.


----------



## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

A HTML UI would be deployed with the HTML resources stored locally and an embedded browser used to render it (probably Opera, since they are doing a bunch of TV specific things). The main advantage of HTML5 is that lots of apps are being written using it, so those would port to the UI pretty easily.

Check out: http://www.operasoftware.com/products/tv-store

Whether or not DirecTV has any interest in this in another question. Tivo already supports the Opera TV store and HTML5 add-in apps.


----------



## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

Diana C said:


> A HTML UI would be deployed with the HTML resources stored locally and an embedded browser used to render it (probably Opera, since they are doing a bunch of TV specific things). The main advantage of HTML5 is that lots of apps are being written using it, so those would port to the UI pretty easily.
> 
> Check out: http://www.operasoftware.com/products/tv-store
> 
> *Whether or not DirecTV has any interest in this in another question*. Tivo alreandy supports the Opera TV store and HTML5 add-in apps.


Well, losing customers, which happen recently to DirecTV, will often trigger quick eye catching gadgetry additions.


----------



## loveshockey (Feb 25, 2008)

Wouldn't it be great if AT&T owned Directv used TiVo in next generation DVRs?


Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk


----------



## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

Yeah I think the only advantage you would get is easier customization. In HTML5 DirecTV can made modifications to the look and feel one time and deploy it across an assortment of set tops. Plus they could very easily mimic the experience online, tablet and smartphone apps.

It would have been nice if the Tivo Roamio was ported to Genie Hardware, so for an extra fee to Tivo, people familiar with that platform had the option. It's similar, one less tuner than the "T6" as they call the Cable MSO version. C51/41's could be turned into Tivo Mini's maybe.


----------



## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

There are actually 6 tuners in a Genie...one is just dedicated to guide data (TiVo uses the Internet instead). The DirecTV minis are just RVU clients, so if a TiVo based Genie had the RVU server code, the Cx1 clients would just render whatever they were sent.


----------



## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

loveshockey said:


> Wouldn't it be great if AT&T owned Directv used TiVo in next generation DVRs?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk


Not for all of us. I don't like the Tivo interface.


----------



## fleckrj (Sep 4, 2009)

Drucifer said:


> Well, losing customers, which happen recently to DirecTV, will often trigger quick eye catching gadgetry additions.


Are people actually leaving DirecTV over the appearance of the guide? I picked DirecTV because of the channels they carry - not how the guide looks.

I do not want the clutter of logos in the guide. I do not like the live guide. More time, fewer adds, and less wasted space would be nice, but I do not need pictures in the guide, and I care about what is coming on later in all channels, not just the channel I have highlighted.


----------



## mkdtv21 (May 27, 2007)

The thing I don't like about logos in the guide or even in channel banners is if a channel changes their logo which happens often you have to wait for a software update for the logos to be updated. So most of the time there are a lot of outdated logos in the guide which probably wouldn't bother most people but bothers me. If a new guide came out with logos in it I would hope there would be a way to update them on the fly without a software update.


----------



## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

mkdtv21 said:


> The thing I don't like about logos in the guide or even in channel banners is if a channel changes their logo which happens often you have to wait for a software update for the logos to be updated. So most of the time there are a lot of outdated logos in the guide which probably wouldn't bother most people but bothers me. If a new guide came out with logos in it I would hope there would be a way to update them on the fly without a software update.


They are already updated with a supplimental download, no update required. The problem is DirecTV has to rely on the channel provider to provide them with the new logos and such. I'm also pretty sure they don't do a supplimental download for just 1 logo change.


----------



## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

That's where an HTML guide would be beneficial. If your internet connected it could easily check many times a day for image changes to be downloaded to local cache. If your not internet connected well then your reliant on waiting for that data to cycle in a data stream carousel. 

The TiVo idea would just be an option to win over TiVo fanatics. Some of them would rather you pry their tivo's out of their cold dead hands than switch to DirecTV. Of course it's an option that I'm not sure I would even take or not. If it could be downloaded to an existing installed genie, preserving recordings, I would try it. If I didn't like it I would remove it and hopefully the genie software would just be pushed back down to the HR44.

I like the look of the DirecTV guide. It's surely at least a decade more advanced than cable (except for Xfinity X1). 

Better advantage of a 16:9 display so you could view a longer time duration would be welcome. Or an option to do not only 1, but 2 or 3 channels in the mini guide. Sometimes I don't want the whole screen filled with the guide while something's on, but I want to browse. One line at a time in the mini guide is a pain.


----------



## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

UI is just one component, a good component, but just one piece of the pie. There's much to any evaluation: UI look & feel and performance, tuner buffering & selection, multiple high-end DVR support, >1TB options, infrastructure, series limits, recycle bin, CIG customization, shortcuts for playlist navigation, season/episode info, client performance, MRV by DVR, mobile Apps for individual DVR management, keyboard remote option, 3rd party access (Netflix/Hulu/Amazon/Vudu), offline backups, DVR copy/transfer ... many factors to consider.


----------



## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

Diana C said:


> A HTML UI would be deployed with the HTML resources stored locally and an embedded browser used to render it (probably Opera, since they are doing a bunch of TV specific things). The main advantage of HTML5 is that lots of apps are being written using it, so those would port to the UI pretty easily.
> 
> Check out: http://www.operasoftware.com/products/tv-store
> 
> Whether or not DirecTV has any interest in this in another question. Tivo already supports the Opera TV store and HTML5 add-in apps.


I'd be surprised if they could pull off a *FAST* HTML 5 UI. We all surf the internet at home and work and have access to various speeds of connections as well as various speeds of computers. I've *NEVER* seen a web page load and render fast enough to be used on a CE device. Not even close. Obviously that's over the internet and this would be local, so that would be a difference, but if you have a reasonable connection, downloading the HTML to your machine not where the bottleneck is.

If you do a File | Save as and save a web page on your local hard drive and then open that copy, you'll see its not exactly instant. Still could take 1/2 a sec or so to load everything up, parse it and finalize the layout, etc.

Having your layout jump around due to partial layouts that IE, et all use wouldn't be acceptable on a CE device I don't think.


----------



## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

cypherx said:


> That's where an HTML guide would be beneficial. If your internet connected it could easily check many times a day for image changes to be downloaded to local cache. If your not internet connected well then your reliant on waiting for that data to cycle in a data stream carousel.


This is already done with the current guide. If you have an internet connection, it pulls the guide data over the internet.

There was a HUGE bug a few months back where DirecTVs guide servers were all messed up and as a result, the guide was messed up and tons of programs were missing and you would only get like 20 eps if I recall correctly. The only way to fix the bug at the time was to disconnect from the internet and pull the good data from the sat.

And you know what? It was a HUGE pain to get DirecTV to fix it. It took a LONG time for DirecTV to even admit that it was an issue. I myself personally called many, many times to get them to fix it. It was escalated to level 2 and then to engineering and engineering denied it was doing it even though there were people on the forums say they saw the issue too.

Finally, I reached some department, I forget what department it was, but its the one where you need a pass code to call the number and you're supposed to have a case agent that is supposed to be your personal champion in getting the issue resolved. Finally, THEY were able to repro and reported it to engineering and it still took like 2 or 3 weeks after that to get it fixed.

I say the less DirecTV touches, the better. They have a history of breaking stuff and removing features people like.


----------



## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

SledgeHammer said:


> I'd be surprised if they could pull off a *FAST* HTML 5 UI...


You have a point...although TiVo supports OperaTV and through that HTML5 apps, when they recently decided to eliminate Flash from the UI they rewrote in Haxe, not HTML5. (Haxe, BTW, is very fast...the rewrite has sped up the older Premiere UI quite a bit).


----------



## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

Yeah when Facebook's iPhone app was purely HTML5 based, it was horribly slow and a real chore to use. The app received many 1 - 2 star reviews and the majority of comments were how slow it was. They eventually compiled an IOS specific "app" and those complaints vanished, thus improving the App Store rating.

HTML5 is useful for write once, deploy many, as Facebook wanted to do changes on the fly that applied to all devices without publishing new apps to the respective app stores. However nothing beats a natively compiled assembly version of code built specifically for the processor at task.

I hear HAXE is really good and shows a lot of promise. It provides a major speed up as well as the ability to port the application to various processors easily. Perhaps DirecTV and others may want to consider the platform.


----------



## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

SledgeHammer said:


> This is already done with the current guide. If you have an internet connection, it pulls the guide data over the internet.


Is this just for DVRs, or do receivers do this as well? Why would they do this, when they're already getting the guide via satellite...doesn't make sense.


----------



## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

fleckrj said:


> Are people actually leaving DirecTV over *the appearance of the guide*? I picked DirecTV because of the channels they carry - not how the guide looks.
> 
> I do not want the clutter of logos in the guide. I do not like the live guide. More time, fewer adds, and less wasted space would be nice, but I do not need pictures in the guide, and I care about what is coming on later in all channels, not just the channel I have highlighted.


Probably not elusively. But add in the other Guide faults -- slow as molasses. It is a contributing factor.


----------



## Aridon (Mar 13, 2007)

Cache. They can get HTML5 guide to work just fine without querying the net for every remote click.


----------



## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

Aridon said:


> Cache. They can get HTML5 guide to work just fine without querying the net for every remote click.


No one is even suggesting that the code would be loaded from the network each time. We are talking about simply the speed of rendering a page loaded from local storage. With sufficiently fast CPU and GPU it shouldn't be a problem but DVRs don't have very beefy processors compared to the average PC or Mac.


----------



## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

When the receivers migrate from the old / slow legacy MIPS processor based architectures to modern day ARM based processor architectures, then maybe we can see more advanced GUI presentation and features. Broadcoms HEVC compatible SoC's are ARM based and published benchmarks currently blow away all prior MIPS based designs. This is just a reference chip right now but I believe the manufacturers have access to this silicon and are working out their designs for next generation set tops.

I still think HAXE should be heavily considered over HTML5 considering the current successful track record with it. It can only evolve from there. HTML5 has a place and I think its more for tablets and computers at this point, unless processing can begin to match what is seen in the desktop.

Not to say the current UI is not advanced. Again its at LEAST a decade more advanced than iGuide, and SARA and maybe 3 years ahead of Passport Echo. It just lacks a personality. There's no life or animation to it. Things just appear and disappear (hard cuts can sometimes be difficult to follow). No contextual aware / context sensitive graphic animations or any of that modern day fit and finish polishing you see on current PC's and mobile apps. It could use a little sprucing up with some personality and graphical flow to it. See >> http://alistapart.com/article/ui-animation-and-ux-a-not-so-secret-friendship


----------



## patmurphey (Dec 21, 2006)

A quality GUI is already out there. Just go look at a Hopper/Joey system.


----------



## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

patmurphey said:


> A quality GUI is already out there. Just go look at a Hopper/Joey system.


got any links? The video I just watched from 10/31/14 looks pretty simplistic and not that good looking to me, but it was only the guide, really.


----------



## 242424 (Mar 22, 2012)

People must spend more time watching the guide than I do, I wouldn't care if it was in black and white.


----------



## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

Don't forget... DirecTV took out the OTA tuner starting with the HR21. They did this for no other reason then for cost per unit. It costs WAY more to build an AM21 (and make it integrate with the DVR) then to just stick the OTA tuner in the DVR itself. They also get a nice chunk of change out of AM21 sales as there are many people out there who will just pay the $50 to $100 without question. They certainly aren't going to beef up the hardware JUST to switch to HTML5 for no real reason.


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

SledgeHammer said:


> Don't forget... DirecTV took out the OTA tuner starting with the HR21. They did this for no other reason then for cost per unit. It costs WAY more to build an AM21 (and make it integrate with the DVR) then to just stick the OTA tuner in the DVR itself. They also get a nice chunk of change out of AM21 sales as there are many people out there who will just pay the $50 to $100 without question. They certainly aren't going to beef up the hardware JUST to switch to HTML5 for no real reason.


Personally, I think it was cheaper to put them in a separate box than to pay the royalties on every receiver out there that a minority of users would use.


----------



## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

dpeters11 said:


> Personally, I think it was cheaper to put them in a separate box than to pay the royalties on every receiver out there that a minority of users would use.


Yes, I have heard a pretty wide range of figures for ATSC/8VSB licenses. A minimum of $5 per receiver, possibly several times that at least back when they made this decision. More and more of those patents are expiring so it should be dropping, but even if licensing was $0 the additional hardware in the receivers will never be free.


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Though, it would be nice to have an HR44 sized AM21.


----------



## wilbur_the_goose (Aug 16, 2006)

The D* HD GUI is a LOT better than what we had in the old days!


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

RunnerFL said:


> The problem is DirecTV has to rely on the channel provider to provide them with the new logos and such.


I'm pretty sure this is not the case. I'm guessing the provider would give approval (if it isn't written into -- or demanded by -- the contract) as soon as it was asked for.


> I'm also pretty sure they don't do a supplimental download for just 1 logo change.


I'm betting this is the only reason the logos don't get updated. The guide parameters have to be updated ASAP via some mechanism but the rest isn't as imperative.


----------



## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

harsh said:


> I'm pretty sure this is not the case.


I'm pretty sure you're wrong... We've been told in the past that logos come from the channels.


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

wilbur_the_goose said:


> The D* HD GUI is a LOT better than what we had in the old days!


Nonetheless, the one element of the GUI that garnered the most complaints and could most improve the day-to-day experience, the grid guide, has remained substantially unimproved (perhaps degraded if you believe the logo/ad haters).


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

RunnerFL said:


> We've been told in the past that logos come from the channels.


We've been told a lot of things and many have come from within to explain the inexplicable.

How would the programmers deliver the logos into the guide?


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

harsh said:


> Nonetheless, *the one element of the GUI that garnered the most complaints *and could most improve the day-to-day experience, the grid guide, has remained substantially unimproved (perhaps degraded if you believe the logo/ad haters).


That's fascinating information coming from a Dish subscriber.

Please share the infinite wisdom of facts/statistics supporting that claim - we can hardly contain ourselves in anticipation.


----------



## patmurphey (Dec 21, 2006)

harsh said:


> Nonetheless, the one element of the GUI that garnered the most complaints and could most improve the day-to-day experience, the grid guide, has remained substantially unimproved (perhaps degraded if you believe the logo/ad haters).





hdtvfan0001 said:


> That's fascinating information coming from a Dish subscriber.
> 
> Please share the infinite wisdom of facts/statistics supporting that claim - we can hardly contain ourselves in anticipation.


The guide is fine - 3 hours by 7 rows with channel logos, with a live window and information on selected show above, and "no ads" can be selected. You can page ahead 3 hours or 24 hours at a time. The DVR (recordings) menu has thumbnails instead of a list (that has garnered some online complaining), but if you group recordings by name and select a thumbnail a list is presented. Doubters about the interface should go visit someone with a Hopper and see how modern and easy to use that it is with any of its menus.


----------



## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

harsh said:


> We've been told a lot of things and many have come from within to explain the inexplicable.
> 
> How would the programmers deliver the logos into the guide?


We? You're a DirecTV subscriber now?

How? Uhhhhh, by programming that feature in... Duh...


----------



## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

The one thing that is a fixed size on the GUI is the screen size of the PIG. The layout of the rest of the GUI should be base on the placement of the small live screen.

Which is not done on the Guide, the PlayList, ToDo List, Series Manager, Quene, History, Purchases. etc.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

patmurphey said:


> Doubters about the interface should go visit someone with a Hopper and see how modern and easy to use that it is with any of its menus.


Been there, done that. The Dish UI is also so dumbed down that it looks like it could have been written by the Sesame Street people. That said...there are also some nice design features.

But in reality, a UI's acceptance comes down to personal preferences and usability....and on that front...the original statement about the DirecTV UI "garnering the most complaints" is based on FUD, not facts. There are no supporting statistics or facts...its just hooey being promoted by a Dish subscriber in a DirecTV topic thread.


----------



## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Drucifer said:


> The one thing that is a fixed size on the GUI is the screen size of the PIG. The layout of the rest of the GUI should be base on the placement of the small live screen.
> 
> Which is not done on the Guide, the PlayList, ToDo List, Series Manager, Quene, History, Purchases. etc.


What are you trying to say? The PIG is a consistent size and location for all of the above.


----------



## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

tonyd79 said:


> What are you trying to say? The PIG is a consistent size and location for all of the above.


I'm saying they're wasting space because they did not take in consideration the size of the only fixed item on those screens. Only the Menu screen was redesign to fit the current PIG. All the sub-menu screens weren't.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Drucifer said:


> I'm saying they're wasting space because they did not take in consideration the size of the only fixed item on those screens. Only the Menu screen was redesign to fit the current PIG. All the sub-menu screens weren't.


Could be...but for the 99.8% of the time one doesn't spend in the menus...wondering how big a deal that really is...


----------



## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

I don't understand what your trying to say Drew. The PIG is consistent. It's always the same size, always in the same spot, is it not? I think consistency goes a long way. You don't want to make it like Windows 8 now where it has an identity crisis and one minute it functions like a tablet, the next it functions like a pc?

Now if the current picture shrank down into that upper corner to morph into the PIG like the old SD boxes did, that would be a cool transition effect. I like the UI, I just think it could use some polishing so getting from point A to point B wasn't so jarring and disconnected.


----------



## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

cypherx said:


> I don't understand what your trying to say Drew. The PIG is consistent. It's always the same size, always in the same spot, is it not? I think consistency goes a long way. You don't want to make it like Windows 8 now where it has an identity crisis and one minute it functions like a tablet, the next it functions like a pc?
> 
> Now if the current picture shrank down into that upper corner to morph into the PIG like the old SD boxes did, that would be a cool transition effect. I like the UI, I just think it could use some polishing so getting from point A to point B wasn't so jarring and disconnected.


Transition effects are a waste of resources. The changes aren't jarring as they are.


----------



## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

tonyd79 said:


> Transition effects are a waste of resources. The changes aren't jarring as they are.


I have to disagree here. Especially on an HR34 or earlier when you push a button and your not sure if the receiver accepted the command, so you press it again but then bam! It not only accepts the original command with much delay, it then stacks your second press on top. If you saw a visual indication on screen when the button was pressed, say the screen flying into the PIG while in the background the CPU is loading the next screen, you'd have the feedback you need.

UI animation enhances the experience. From the original iPhone to current, or androids, or heck turning on full window dragging in Windows 95/98 (instead of just the outline), it's an important conveyance from point A to B. I invite any neigh sayer to re-read the article I posted earlier in this thread: http://alistapart.com/article/ui-animation-and-ux-a-not-so-secret-friendship

It's not a waste of resources. This is not 1993, it's almost 2015 and computing power has evolved beyond what any of our expectations may have been. I may be typing this on an iPhone 6 plus, but even on a 3GS there are animations and the board is only a few square inches and runs on a tiny battery. You could fit maybe 30 of these boards in the same space as an HR.


----------



## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

cypherx said:


> I have to disagree here. Especially on an HR34 or earlier when you push a button and your not sure if the receiver accepted the command, so you press it again but then bam! It not only accepts the original command with much delay, it then stacks your second press on top. If you saw a visual indication on screen when the button was pressed, say the screen flying into the PIG while in the background the CPU is loading the next screen, you'd have the feedback you need.
> 
> UI animation enhances the experience. From the original iPhone to current, or androids, or heck turning on full window dragging in Windows 95/98 (instead of just the outline), it's an important conveyance from point A to B. I invite any neigh sayer to re-read the article I posted earlier in this thread: http://alistapart.com/article/ui-animation-and-ux-a-not-so-secret-friendship
> 
> It's not a waste of resources. This is not 1993, it's almost 2015 and computing power has evolved beyond what any of our expectations may have been. I may be typing this on an iPhone 6 plus, but even on a 3GS there are animations and the board is only a few square inches and runs on a tiny battery. You could fit maybe 30 of these boards in the same space as an HR.


While I understand what you are going for with having a transition to show you have pressed a button I think you are missing the fact that the transition would start after the same delay that you have now and wouldn't help solve the "issue" you are suggesting it would solve. In fact it might make it worse because it will consume more resources and slow It down even more.

Resources should go to having the ability to set more than 50/100 series for recording etc. Not transition effects.


----------



## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

The problem with that idea is that despite its size, the 3gs has quite a bit more computing and graphics power than any Directv receiver, even ones that came after it like the HR44.

Rather than add transition effects that will slow down actually responding to commands, they'd be better off fixing the poor coding that is making it take longer to respond to user input.

There's no reason when I hit a single number key on the remote it should sometimes take 2-3 seconds to display a single number on the GUI. How are transition effects going to help when a remote control input that results in nothing more than showing that number is so delayed? You're dreaming if you think they can make cool transition effects occur more quickly than responding to a number key input sometimes does. Unless a transition effect occurs _instantly_, it is worse than having no feedback at all!


----------



## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

There was a nice transition effect on SD boxes, which quite frankly I would imagine have even LESS computational power than a regular HD box. Granted this is the light blue and white guide, but still even when the HD / HD-DVR's were on the light blue and white guide this is one thing they omitted.

I think when we get into native 4K and they are required to switch to more powerful and efficient ARM based processing rather than old MIPS designs, we are going to see one hell of an improvement.

Comcast's X1 platform has all the iPhone / iPad / Android like smooth graphic animations but I believe that is an Intel CE4100 based processor. That is atom based and has a built in SGX535 graphics processor with 3D shader architecture with blending and scaling. 

ink,

I see what your saying... I guess I am giving these receivers more credit than they deserve. I was hoping the fact they could multi-task, as in one thread is handling the "getting there" transition, while another thread is chugging through a big database of program guide listings.


----------



## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Those old boxes did practically nothing compared to what the boxes do today. But again, why waste resources on flashy graphics that do nothin for no one when they can be used to make the boxes more useable. Fades and swipes and growing boxes are a complete waste of time in box resources and programmer time. They add nothing to the use of the box.


----------



## Scott Kocourek (Jun 13, 2009)

I personally can't stand animations on my receivers and I turn them off any chance I can get. I would rather something be faster than have an animation that would take up memory or processing power/speed.


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Been there, done that. The Dish UI is also so dumbed down that it looks like it could have been written by the Sesame Street people. That said...there are also some nice design features.
> 
> But in reality, a UI's acceptance comes down to personal preferences and usability....and on that front...the original statement about the DirecTV UI "garnering the most complaints" is based on FUD, not facts. There are no supporting statistics or facts...its just hooey being promoted by a Dish subscriber in a DirecTV topic thread.


Oddly enough, A Dish DVR was the only one that confused me so much I couldn't do much with it. Never had trouble with the basics on any other system.


----------



## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

cypherx said:


> I think when we get into native 4K and they are required to switch to more powerful and efficient ARM based processing rather than old MIPS designs, we are going to see one hell of an improvement.


There's nothing inherent in MIPS or ARM that makes one faster than the other. There's simply been a lot more investment in ARM lately, since it happened to be the preferred platform for modern smartphones. There is a larger range of ARM cores available today with a much wider performance spectrum, a lot more tools and libraries, better compilers, and so forth. It makes sense for set tops to piggyback on that investment.

Don't expect switching to ARM cores in future set tops to give you too dramatic of an improvement, because cost is still the primary factor. They aren't going to spend anything like the $25-$35 a modern smartphone SoC costs, so they'll be delivering performance several years behind in capability (think iPhone 4S / Galaxy S2 level, judging from the specs I've seen)

Think about the responsiveness of the GUI in the Macs in the early/mid 90s. Even though there weren't any sort of fancy effects, so long as there wasn't an external delay imposed by the hard drive or lack of RAM, if you performed an action the response was instantaneous, even though they had a fraction of the computing and graphics power of even the early HRs. The limiting factor for Directv's GUI performance is software. Giving bad programmers more performance often results in less attention paid to code quality so the additional performance ends up wasted.


----------



## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Could be...but for the 99.8% of the time one doesn't spend in the menus...wondering how big a deal that really is...


You don't have to be always on something to complain about an item short comings. Six Stations by a hour and a half coverage is ridiculous small for a HD 40" screen.


----------



## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Scott Kocourek said:


> I personally can't stand animations on my receivers and I turn them off any chance I can get. I would rather something be faster than have an animation that would take up memory or processing power/speed.


I'm the same way. That's the main reason I find the TiVo UI childish.


----------



## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Drucifer said:


> You don't have to be always on something to complain about an item short comings. Six Stations by a hour and a half coverage is ridiculous small for a HD 40" screen.


Not everyone has a 40" TV, some have smaller ones and some have bigger. You'd be distorting their view to make yours look better.


----------



## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

RunnerFL said:


> I'm the same way. That's the main reason I find the TiVo UI childish.


I may have commented the same previously, but the Roamio UI has been A+, coupled with the mobile App which has been slick, and the Slider Pro keyboard remote. Fairly instantaneous response and love the new 3 column Playlist with views for TV Series, Movies, Devices, and other views. Man, changed my mind 100%.


----------



## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

RunnerFL said:


> Not everyone has a 40" TV, some have smaller ones and some have bigger. You'd be distorting their view to make yours look better.


A correctly design software GUI would take inconsideration the size of the screen with an install setting asking for screen size. And not do the one-size fits all approach when screens now range from the tiny tablet 7 inches to the monster 100+ inches.


----------



## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

No reason to ask for display size, EDID provides that information - that's how Windows for instance knows the size of monitor you have.


----------



## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

Sixto said:


> I may have commented the same previously, but the Roamio UI has been A+, coupled with the mobile App which has been slick, and the Slider Pro keyboard remote. Fairly instantaneous response and love the new 3 column Playlist with views for TV Series, Movies, Devices, and other views. Man, changed my mind 100%.


I read a lot of good reviews on the Roamio and their owners always rave about it. It's too bad the DirecTV & TiVo partnership did not churn out a DirecTV compatible Roamio. Instead they turned out an ancient thing with limited appeal which in my opinion was on purpose as to not cannibalize genie and genie go sales.

Now an RC71 remote where it opened up like a clamshell containing a QWERTY keyboard and a small mic and voice command push to talk button would really make searching or typing in text boxes convenient! I gave up waiting for YouTube HD and DIAL support so I got a Chromecast for that. Use iPhone voice to text to search YouTube and click the cast button and Chromecast's HDMI-CEC control switches inputs for me. When done I just power cycle the HR44 and HDMI-CEC switches inputs back for me.


----------



## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

Ok found a real world working voice remote. It's the XR11 from Comcast. It uses Zigbee to the set top and wifi for the voice. The set top programs the remote to your wifi. I know DirecTV already has this in their app but that put it right in the remote would engage more users and it would be faster to launch. It could be an upsell option, which for any of us here with DirecTV stock could appreciate anything that could contribute to higher ARPU. They just have to invest a little bit in the front end to the already existing voice search platform.

Demo here:


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

RunnerFL said:


> How? Uhhhhh, by programming that feature in... Duh...


I was speaking of programmers in reference to those that provide the program content, not the software people. You said that the logos come from the providers and I wonder how they manage to transmit them so that they show up in the guide.

I don't think they have such control and any stale logos are DIRECTV's sole responsibility.


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Please share the infinite wisdom of facts/statistics supporting that claim - we can hardly contain ourselves in anticipation.


http://www.dbstalk.com/topic/191066-if-you-could-change-one-thing-on-the-new-hdui/?hl=guide


----------



## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

harsh said:


> http://www.dbstalk.com/topic/191066-if-you-could-change-one-thing-on-the-new-hdui/?hl=guide


Won't be long now but we're approaching the 3 year anniversary of when that thread was started. I guess the lesson learned is.... Don't hold your breath!


----------



## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

harsh said:


> I was speaking of programmers in reference to those that provide the program content, not the software people. You said that the logos come from the providers and I wonder how they manage to transmit them so that they show up in the guide.
> 
> I don't think they have such control and any stale logos are DIRECTV's sole responsibility.


You seriously don't know how files are transmitted??? Turn off your computer and throw it away. Transmitting files is one of the most basic things you can do and you can do it numerous ways. Email, file repo, scp, rsync, ftp, etc...


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

patmurphey said:


> The guide is fine - 3 hours by 7 rows with channel logos, with a live window and information on selected show above, and "no ads" can be selected. You can page ahead 3 hours or 24 hours at a time. The DVR (recordings) menu has thumbnails instead of a list (that has garnered some online complaining), but if you group recordings by name and select a thumbnail a list is presented. Doubters about the interface should go visit someone with a Hopper and see how modern and easy to use that it is with any of its menus.


How different is the Hopper UI from their other HD DVRs? I'm at the brother in laws house, and they have dish. I cannot see how anyone would prefer that particular ui. He went into his play list, the actual list was relegated to a window in the bottom left corner, 6 lines. I didn't poke around menus but there was no obvious graphical indication of any settings to edit the guide. And my brother in law claims that you can't watch something currently being recorded, that he's tried it and got an error. That last one it is very possible he's just an idiot, I haven't tried it myself. And why do you need three options to come up when the power save limit is hit, when No and Cancel do the same thing?

The whole ui reminds me of an Amiga. Like I said, I hope the Hopper UI is very different (like H20 to current HR20 UI at a minimum), or else based on this, I would never switch.


----------



## mrknowitall526 (Nov 19, 2014)

I personally would like improvements in getting to the To Do List / Series Manager screens. I still to this day, after using Directv for 2 years, fumble around different menus to try to find those screens. On my old Scientific Atlantic Explorer 8300 HDC from my cable company, which ran Passport Echo, the Series Manager was just another tab on the Playlist screen, which made it really easy to see what was set. Also, the To Do List had its own tab as well. Really easy to see what was going to be recording tonight, etc.


----------



## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

dpeters11 said:


> How different is the Hopper UI from their other HD DVRs? I'm at the brother in laws house, and they have dish. I cannot see how anyone would prefer that particular ui. He went into his play list, the actual list was relegated to a window in the bottom left corner, 6 lines. I didn't poke around menus but there was no obvious graphical indication of any settings to edit the guide. And my brother in law claims that you can't watch something currently being recorded, that he's tried it and got an error. That last one it is very possible he's just an idiot, I haven't tried it myself. And why do you need three options to come up when the power save limit is hit, when No and Cancel do the same thing?
> 
> The whole ui reminds me of an Amiga. Like I said, I hope the Hopper UI is very different (like H20 to current HR20 UI at a minimum), or else based on this, I would never switch.


The guide is 7 lines and 3 hours wide.
The playlist of recorded shows is all icons. However if you have selected 'folders by name' then if there are multiple showings of a particular show, you get a list of the episodes, 9 per page.

To edit the guide you press the Guide button twice and it has a drop down menu, it is list of the guides available and one selection to edit the lists of the 4 lists you can edit. there are 3 lists that are not editable.

The first time I changed from D* and the HR24 to a Hopper, it took a little bit to get the 'feel' of the UI. Once you've fiddled with it a bit and get used to it, it is hands down the best one out there imo.

Sounds like your bil just hasn't fiddled much yet.


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

I just checked, they have a 722k.


----------



## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

dpeters11 said:


> I just checked, they have a 722k.


That explains it. The Hopper/Joey UI is totally different.


----------



## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

lparsons21 said:


> The playlist of recorded shows is all icons.


Ick. I hate icons over lists. Hate them. I hate where directv uses them. They hide information for a stupid graphic.


----------



## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

tonyd79 said:


> Ick. I hate icons over lists. Hate them. I hate where directv uses them. They hide information for a stupid graphic.


For the most part, the Hopper's use of icons is just fine though there are places where I think a list might be more appropriate.

If you select the icon for a recorded show, the upper part of the screen shows a portion of the info about the show, and if the icon is representing a list of episodes, it shows a portion of the info about the latest recording.

Direct provides much more show info, like cast and info about them, that Dish doesn't though.


----------



## patmurphey (Dec 21, 2006)

tonyd79 said:


> Ick. I hate icons over lists. Hate them. I hate where directv uses them. They hide information for a stupid graphic.


Have you looked at a smart phone lately? The Hopper use of icons doesn't interfere with available information at all, and there are lists where appropriate.


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

tonyd79 said:


> Ick. I hate icons over lists. Hate them. I hate where directv uses them. They hide information for a stupid graphic.


In the Hopper's case, it is more of a foldering system for each show. You click on the icon and it gives you a text list of episode numbers, title and a bar (with the percentage in numerals) showing how much of it someone has watched.

It isn't conducive to someone who wants to watch TV in chronological order of broadcast but who does that?


----------



## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

lparsons21 said:


> For the most part, the Hopper's use of icons is just fine though there are places where I think a list might be more appropriate.
> If you select the icon for a recorded show, the upper part of the screen shows a portion of the info about the show, and if the icon is representing a list of episodes, it shows a portion of the info about the latest recording.
> Direct provides much more show info, like cast and info about them, that Dish doesn't though.


Do you see the whole show name without selecting it?


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

tonyd79 said:


> Do you see the whole show name without selecting it?


Don't they say that a picture is worth a thousand words?

The name of the series appears out to about 20 characters under the icon. The episode name shows about the first 25 characters in the episode list when you click on the icon.


----------



## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

harsh said:


> It isn't conducive to someone who wants to watch TV in chronological order of broadcast but who does that?


Well..... In many respect everyone. Aren't the folders listing shows by when they where recorded which would be in order for any new show? That is how DIRECTV does all the shows inside of folders. Not by name or revers date order.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

inkahauts said:


> Well..... In many respect everyone. Aren't the folders listing shows by when they where recorded which would be in order for any new show? That is how DIRECTV does all the shows inside of folders. Not by name or revers date order.


Sort order is a choice. On the episode screen one can choose DVR Date (most recent at the top), A-Z (alphabetical) or Episode # (most recent that the bottom). The different sort orders come in handy for shows that are rerun and recorded out of order - or if one knows the episode name they are looking for in a long list. The tiles can be sorted ... and the folders can be set to "by Title", "by Genre", "My Folders" or "No Folders". (I normally leave mine set on "by Title" and "DVR Date".)


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

inkahauts said:


> Well..... In many respect everyone. Aren't the folders listing shows by when they where recorded which would be in order for any new show? That is how DIRECTV does all the shows inside of folders. Not by name or revers date order.


The old days didn't have folders. All content was mashed together by some overall collation sequence -- usually FIFO without regard to the content itself.


----------



## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

Instructional videos are no longer airing on channel 1 or 201. Maybe this leads them up for more customization in the future as they will have to reshoot all the videos so often.


----------



## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Pretty sure that those to things are completely unrelated as those videos are now on demand.


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Channel 1 was being discontinued, becoming infomercial channel.


----------



## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

Ha! Infomercial channel! Go figure. Not like the bandwidth could be better utilized.


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

cypherx said:


> Instructional videos are no longer airing on channel 1 or 201. Maybe this leads them up for more customization in the future as they will have to reshoot all the videos so often.


Given the pace at which true (and documented) innovation has happened -- and the fact that one printed manual covers everything from the HR20 to the HR44 -- suggests that they're not that concerned about updating learning materials.


----------



## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Maybe you should also read the manual that is built into the receivers? Oh wait you can't..... And because of how they have designed the DVRs they don't need more than one manual. Heck even cars use one manual for all the different versions and options that may be available for one line of vehicles. Your assumption is short of logic.


----------



## wilbur_the_goose (Aug 16, 2006)

Verizon FiOS just updated the GUI on their boxes. Looks really nice - black is the new background color.


----------



## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

The fios gui looks better than the previous one but it is still too noisy and I hate the middle highlight of the selected program. The button pushes are better but still not intuitive and it asks too many questions for routine actions. More usable in the latest version but still not good enough. Even trying to figure out when a show starts can be difficult.


----------



## wilbur_the_goose (Aug 16, 2006)

tonyd79 - you're right. Looks nice, but the usability isn't nearly as good as D*'s.


----------



## sangs (Apr 2, 2008)

wilbur_the_goose said:


> tonyd79 - you're right. Looks nice, but the usability isn't nearly as good as D*'s.


I'll respectfully disagree. I have them both and for my purposes, the new FiOS IMG 1.9.7 includes more functionality than DirecTV's - especially when you have multiple DVRs in your setup. The ability to set up a recording - including season passes - on any DVR from any DVR or STB is priceless. And not just when there is a conflict either. (I too don't like the middle highlight of the selected program though.) There are a lot of other improvements under the hood and in the settings as well. A nice step forward. Too bad it is not available on the FiOS Quantum systems yet. (Rumored to be coming in late January.)


----------



## ep1974 (May 22, 2010)

wilbur_the_goose said:


> Verizon FiOS just updated the GUI on their boxes. Looks really nice - black is the new background color.


I like the look. Wish Directv would add the channel logos like this guide. IMO, I don't think it looks to cluttered.


----------



## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

“cluttered” is an understatement


----------



## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

That is super cluttered. I wouldn't put up with that. I also don't like the "flat" look everyone is going with now.


----------



## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

I also hate the flat look that started with Windows 8. That big red bar at the top is obnoxiously bright and bold too. That will burn in or cause image retention for sure. I liked their old look better.


----------



## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

ep1974 said:


> I like the look. Wish Directv would add the channel logos like this guide. IMO, I don't think it looks to cluttered.


I dislike the look. Cluttered as well as garish.


----------



## Aridon (Mar 13, 2007)

Looks fine to me except the info bar in the middle


----------



## mrknowitall526 (Nov 19, 2014)

cypherx said:


> I also hate the flat look that started with Windows 8. That big red bar at the top is obnoxiously bright and bold too. That will burn in or cause image retention for sure. I liked their old look better.


I hate the flat look for everything!! Computers are getting more powerful and we are dumbing them down!

Verizon likes to splatter everything with their red as much as possible. Check out the firmware page on any Actiontec DSL router.


----------



## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

I'm. It a fan of colors on the lines of guide depending on what's on like sports one color movie another etc. That is big clutter to me and takes away from the concept of highlighting something. 

I can't stand the middle selected Program thing. 

And logos may look ok to some
But I'd prefer a selection to turn that on or off (or maybe either number and name Or logo and number but not logo name and number) or not have it at all. DIRECTV has the logos but only for the channel is highlighted and up in the info banner. That's plenty for me. I'd rather have more hours than logos and name and number. 

Aesthetics are important to a point but functionality is far more Important to me.


----------



## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

The logos may not look as cluttered if they were all normalized. What I mean by that is that they were all sized to fit the same pixel width and height. Plus they were just in gray-scale - no colors, and possibly semi-transparent or light enough to not take too much eyes off the highlighted program title. The center focused thing Verizon (and Passport Echo) does is annoying, I agree. Not as jarring as moxi though (what my local cable co offers for their 6 tuner DVR).


----------



## sangs (Apr 2, 2008)

cypherx said:


> I also hate the flat look that started with Windows 8. That big red bar at the top is obnoxiously bright and bold too. That will burn in or cause image retention for sure. I liked their old look better.


Burn in? Who has their guide open long enough to ever cause burn in?


----------



## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

sangs said:


> Burn in? Who has their guide open long enough to ever cause burn in?


LOL


----------



## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

sangs said:


> Burn in? Who has their guide open long enough to ever cause burn in?


A bright red bar like that will cause image retention in seconds on my plasma. I see shadowing of the info bar text after it times out on Sonic Tap. There are times when my Wife opens the guide and then gets caught up doing something else. I remember when we had Comcast the red tv guide logo would have image persistence. Glad there are no garish red tv guide logo's on DirecTV.


----------



## sangs (Apr 2, 2008)

cypherx said:


> A bright red bar like that will cause image retention in seconds on my plasma. I see shadowing of the info bar text after it times out on Sonic Tap. There are times when my Wife opens the guide and then gets caught up doing something else. I remember when we had Comcast the red tv guide logo would have image persistence. Glad there are no garish red tv guide logo's on DirecTV.


Seconds? I've had that guide open for more than seconds on several Panny plasmas in our house and not an iota of burn-in has happened.


----------



## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

sangs said:


> Seconds? I've had that guide open for more than seconds on several Panny plasmas in our house and not an iota of burn-in has happened.


Maybe he means image retention? 
I've seen lots of that from Plasmas which is why I Had a Panny for only 2 short weeks.
That scared me enough to look to lcds.


----------



## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Permanent image retention hasn't been an issue on plasmas for over a decade. If you do leave it up on the same channel a lot of the time (like ESPN with its ticker) it is simple to correct by displaying alternating patterns of full screen colors at full brightness for a couple hours, it is never permanent.

The level of image retention I've seen on my plasmas is the same I see on LCD monitors from the menu bar on the bottom. Same thing fixes it on those.


----------



## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

slice1900 said:


> Permanent image retention hasn't been an issue on plasmas for over a decade. If you do leave it up on the same channel a lot of the time (like ESPN with its ticker) it is simple to correct by displaying alternating patterns of full screen colors at full brightness for a couple hours, it is never permanent.
> 
> The level of image retention I've seen on my plasmas is the same I see on LCD monitors from the menu bar on the bottom. Same thing fixes it on those.


I had a Panny plasma in 2011. And image retention is still present. 
I've never seen any image retention on any LCD I've ever owned , Ever!
Burn in is Permanent, Image retention is not. 
People confuse the 2 all the time..


----------



## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

Yes I mean image retention. Its just annoying. Never had anything permanent, but I can still see the text especially after the info bar times out on Sonic Tap. You can see the direct TV logo and even make out the text of the channel names / etc where the Info bar used to appear. Likely because its bright white text. I could only imagine a bright red bar. In fact the TV Guide logo on Comcast was bright red, and yes you could make it out after exiting the Comcast i-Guide menu if the next screen was dark enough. It goes away yes.

My iPad 2 has the same issue. I guess some people call it IR or Image Retention and some people call it Image Persistence. My TV is a 2007 era Samsung Plasma. Great black levels on the thing and good pictures though. You normally do not notice IR unless your looking for it on a dark screen. I have had the pixel orbiter turned on that shifts the image by 4 pixels every few minutes or so, but that doesn't really mitigate the issue. The DirecTV's darker user interface is really nice as it does not exacerbate the problem. The previous white and light blue interface was worse. Also when viewing the guide in a dark room its great not to be blinded by a mostly white and light blue screen like a few years ago. That could really light up a bedroom. I love the dark look and the contrasting text. Its easy on the eyes and modern. I'm glad DirecTV doesn't go Windows 8 / IOS 7/8 / Xbox / Xfinity X1 on us and flatten the thing. I'm only interested in improving whats already established. Perhaps an extra hour in the guide and another channel or two in the mini guide. Some Pizzazz would be nice too (like quick fades in and out of menus). But that's just me.


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

damondlt said:


> Maybe he means image retention?
> I've seen lots of that from Plasmas which is why I Had a Panny for only 2 short weeks.
> That scared me enough to look to lcds.


A few years ago, I got distracted getting things ready, and I had the PS3 screen in the background for the entire super bowl, on my LCD.


----------



## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

dpeters11 said:


> A few years ago, I got distracted getting things ready, and I had the PS3 screen in the background for the entire super bowl, on my LCD.


Like I said I've never seen any fixed image on any LCD I've owned.
But that so called temporary image retention I noticed the first time when I could see the entire DVD menu in the background.
While they do go away, just to open up another fixed image in the background. 
Yeah just not for me.


----------

