# Looking for advice on how to distribute OTA signal from Antenna



## Slump Buster (Oct 10, 2006)

I recently purchased a leaf antenna and hooked it up to my dtv receiver via an am21. No problems at all, everything went well. The leaf sits behind my tv and pulls in channels as far as 40 miles away.

I am now looking to do two things. 

a - Create a personal pvr by using a product such as HD HOme run as well as other Kodi software. I don't need any help setting up the software.

b - Purchase a new antenna (probably the Leaf Sky) to pull in stations that are 60 miles away. 

The desination for the new antenna would probably be the attic over my garage. I can sneak power up through the ceiling above the garage door opener. There is a cable jack on the other side of the attic wall. The house is roughly 20 years old and the cable is original to the house so I would think it isn't RG6. I am thinking that i could do a lot of things:

1) Put the HD Homerun appliance near the antenna and run the signal to my network through the cable via a MOCA converter. I've read that these converters can get up to 200 meg speed, which is plenty for this application. 

2) Try to broadcast the OTA back through the cable in the wall. Once again, the cable probably isn't great. The distance would probably be 60 - 70 feet. This would give me a lot of flexability as I could catch the OTA downstream and split it as needed (dtv receiver, HD Home run, etc). The down side is that I don't know the quality of the cable in the wall. 

3) Something else?

Any thoughts/comments are welcomed. Thanks!


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## RBA (Apr 14, 2013)

First you need to identify what the coaxial cable is. Solid copper RG59 and OTA signals can be quite good.
Second post your TV Fool results so we can guess what your signals might be.
Third decide how many times you are planning to split the signals.
You might also reconsider the Leaf antenna systems.


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## Slump Buster (Oct 10, 2006)

Thanks so much for your response. Your last entry about the antenna was actually extremely helpful. I had put a Clearstream 4 on the roof a few years ago but never had much luck with it. I always suspected that one of the wires in the house might have an issue. Sure enough, I tested the signal at the entry point into the house and I had channels. I live in the Buffalo area and the majority of my stations are 30-40 miles to the south. I am getting almost all of the channels with a 60+ signal rating with the exception of wkbw (7).

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d8e03b30015fc2e

I am also getting some Toronto stations 40+ miles to the north. My antenna was never fine-tuned so I suspect if I play with it a bit I should be able to get more. The antenna is on the roof about 20' in the air. There is probably 100' of cable between the entry into the house and the dish. The cable is not labeled so I don't know what kind it is. The area is pretty flat and the leafs have fallen off of the trees.

Any recommendations as to what my next steps should be? A friend of mine has the same antenna and swears by his pre-amp.


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## Slump Buster (Oct 10, 2006)

One more update on this. I tried this test again with a better cable and a different tv in the house (the previous test used a short cable run through the wall to a tv upstairs). The results were definitely better. I now get a decent signal on all channels and I got a few more Canadian stations. This tv doesn't offer a number but the signal bar did show at at least 50% on the channel that I had a problem with in my previous post (wkbw 7). However, I still have minor dropouts every 10 seconds on this stations even though other HD channels that show a lesser quality have no dropouts at all.


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## RBA (Apr 14, 2013)

TV fool shows you as LOS out to 50 miles and that 50 mile is a low power station. Don't try for stations beyond LOS you go to 2 edge which will cost more to receive than it is worth. As I said before RG59 can perform as good as RG6 on OTA channels. Satellite uses higher frequency and carries DC voltage which may not agree with RG59. 

You don't list what model of Mohu Leaf you have but I believe your antenna is designed for UHF reception channel 7 is VHF a lower frequency that requires longer antenna elements for maximum reception.
A 2 way splitter only delivers 1/2 the signal to each leg of the splitter, a 4 way delivers 1/4th the signal so you need to maximize reception at the antenna if you are going to distribute to multiple tuners.


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## Slump Buster (Oct 10, 2006)

Thank you very much again. Sorry, I should have clearly stated that I dropped the Leaf (40 mile model) once I found that the Clearstream was operational. FWIW I was able to get channel 7 with no issues on the leaf. It comes in so-so on the Clearstream - I get a little distortion every 10 seconds or so. Would a pre-amp help with this? From what i've read they seem to work best when you have a decent signal. 

I believe all of the stations I am really hoping to get are under 45 miles. There are secondary stations past Toronto that I am fine not getting. I am currently getting channel 5 from Toronto and if memory servers that is 45 miles away (I am surprised they don't have it in their database as it is a major station). Several channels broadcast from the same tower so I suspect with a little tuning and/or boosting I'll get what I want.


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## RBA (Apr 14, 2013)

Your Clear Stream 4 is also a UHF antenna You are lucky to be picking up VHF CH7 it is strong enough that the UHF elements are capturing signal for the TV to process.
If you want the Canadian channels try turning you antenna 180 degrees and get them from the front and try receiving your local channels from the back side of the antenna.

If you want to try a good antenna try a Winegard HD-1080 on EBAY starting at $39.08 with free shipping or a Channel Master CM2016 starting at $44.99 with Free Shipping. These old Brands that have stayed around for 50 years by making good products and they tend to under estimate reception ranges to give customers what they expect.


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## Slump Buster (Oct 10, 2006)

Do you think I'd be better off trying a pre-amp first? My fear is that if I bought something like the Channel Master I'd have the same issue with Ch. 7 in that it is UHF and 33.5 miles away. The specs say that this is rates to 35 miles.


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## RBA (Apr 14, 2013)

Slump Buster said:


> Do you think I'd be better off trying a pre-amp first? My fear is that if I bought something like the Channel Master I'd have the same issue with Ch. 7 in that it is UHF and 33.5 miles away. The specs say that this is rates to 35 miles.


Are you familiar with the computer term GIGO Garbage in Garbage Out. If the TV antenna doesn't capture enough signal an amplifier can only amplify the GARBAGE going into the amp. Channel 7 is VHF not UHF and as I posted both Winegard and Channel Master under rate their performance. I have both antennas at 63 miles from Dallas with good results. Now the broadcast strength of my Dallas stations and the flatness of the land may not be the same as yours but I know what I can get.


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## Slump Buster (Oct 10, 2006)

RBA said:


> Are you familiar with the computer term GIGO Garbage in Garbage Out. If the TV antenna doesn't capture enough signal an amplifier can only amplify the GARBAGE going into the amp. Channel 7 is VHF not UHF and as I posted both Winegard and Channel Master under rate their performance. I have both antennas at 63 miles from Dallas with good results. Now the broadcast strength of my Dallas stations and the flatness of the land may not be the same as yours but I know what I can get.


That all makes complete sense. I don't know that GIGO really applies here as I believe that I am just short of being able to do what I wanted to do. I did end up buying a medium-gain amp and that worked wonders. I am now able to pull in 50 total channels (some more than 50 miles away) when I point it to the north (and none of the northern stations have any kind of tearing). Picture looks great and signals are good. However, I stil have the problem where channel 7 tears just enough to not be useable. So, maybe in the end you are right in that a slightly-to-moderately better antenna would get me over the hump.


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## Slump Buster (Oct 10, 2006)

Any thoughts on this channelmaster antenna? It is bi-direction and I would think that it would let me point both north and south to get the channels that I am looking for.

http://www.channelmaster.com/CM_4228HD_p/cm-4228hd.htm


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## RBA (Apr 14, 2013)

> Any thoughts on this channelmaster antenna? It is bi-direction and I would think that it would let me point both north and south to get the channels that I am looking for.
> 
> http://www.channelmaster.com/CM_4228HD_p/cm-4228hd.htm


Your still looking at UHF antennas expecting them to do the job of receiving channel 7. It is not bidirectional it is designed to receive signals from the front strongly and will have side and back lobes that will receive some signals. What you need to be concerned with is front to back ratio, the larger the antenna element array becomes the better the front to back ratio becomes(less signal from the back). Those horizontal wires behind the "X" elements are reflectors one of their purposes is to reduce signal from behind.


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## Slump Buster (Oct 10, 2006)

Thanks again, that is great information. So is there any antenna that will do what I am looking to do? I looked at the two that you recommended earlier and based on they don't appear to fit the bill either (unless I am missing something).


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## RBA (Apr 14, 2013)

> Thanks again, that is great information. So is there any antenna that will do what I am looking to do? I looked at the two that you recommended earlier and based on they don't appear to fit the bill either (unless I am missing something).


Your missing the fact both are designed to receive UHF & VHF signals. I like the Winegard 1080 best I have 2 of those setup. The reflectors on the 1080 can be left folded to slightly increase the signal from the back. Another nice thing is the price is relatively low, and it is small.


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## Slump Buster (Oct 10, 2006)

My concern wasn't about the signal type, it was about the distance. They rate at 40 miles and I am trying to go as far as 55 in one direction and 43 in the other direction. I would hate to buy this and then fall just short in both directions.


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## RBA (Apr 14, 2013)

Slump Buster said:


> My concern wasn't about the signal type, it was about the distance. They rate at 40 miles and I am trying to go as far as 55 in one direction and 43 in the other direction. I would hate to buy this and then fall just short in both directions.


Read post #9
It is quite evident you don't care what signals the antenna is designed for and you still complain about your channel 7 reception.


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## Slump Buster (Oct 10, 2006)

RBA said:


> Read post #9
> It is quite evident you don't care what signals the antenna is designed for and you still complain about your channel 7 reception.


I understand what you are saying. I am trying to tie this up into a neat package. I am guessing that you are pointing towards Dallas when you pull in the stations 63 miles away. Do you think that if I purchased one of the antennas I would have a shot at getting VHF channel 7 to the south if I am pointing towards the north? Obviously you can't know the obstacles. I am just looking for your best guess. If I am still not quite understanding you I apologize in advance. I really have been doing a ton of reading on this and I think at times I have confused a few of the concepts. I am a technical guy by nature but I haven't forayed much into this world before last week.


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## SeaBeagle (May 7, 2006)

I doubt that. I purchased an aerial that is supposed to get channels from 150 miles away. Does not happen. The catch is the aerial has to be like 200 feet off the ground.


Sent from my iPad 4 128GB using DBSTalk mobile application.


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## RBA (Apr 14, 2013)

Slump Buster said:


> I understand what you are saying. I am trying to tie this up into a neat package. I am guessing that you are pointing towards Dallas when you pull in the stations 63 miles away. Do you think that if I purchased one of the antennas I would have a shot at getting VHF channel 7 to the south if I am pointing towards the north? Obviously you can't know the obstacles. I am just looking for your best guess. If I am still not quite understanding you I apologize in advance. I really have been doing a ton of reading on this and I think at times I have confused a few of the concepts. I am a technical guy by nature but I haven't forayed much into this world before last week.


I receive the Dallas market from the front but I also receive the Sherman/Ada,OK. DMA from the back side. Channel 10 (broadcast channel 26) is about 40 miles away. In my market it works I can't do any more than make an educated guess about your market. With TV antennas there is no exact science there is only trial and error.
I should add Sherman/Ada DMA only has 2 channels 10 & 12 each has 3 subcarriers so it carries the major networks.


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

The reason for RG-6 being recommended over RG-59 is signal loss over distance.

For a 100ft cable with signal on channel 7, RG-59 has an estimated signal loss of about 7.3dB whereas RG-6 is about 2.8dB - RG-59 passes less than 1/2 of the signal that RG-6 will on channel 7 @ 100'.

It only gets worse at higher frequencies, Channel 14 (the bottom of the UHF spectrum) RG-6 has an estimated attenuation of 4.3dB and RG-59 has an attenuation of 11.2dB a difference of 6.9 dB.

Remember that these are logarithmic numbers so a difference of 3 is about 1/2 the signal and 6.9 is less than 1/4 the signal passed.

On Chanel 49, RG-6 attenuation is about 5.6 and RG-59 is about 16.9 a difference of 11.3 - almost a 16 times more loss in the RG-59 than the RG-6 so it does matter.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Jim5506 said:


> On Chanel 49, RG-6 attenuation is about 5.6 and RG-59 is about 16.9 a difference of 11.3 - almost a 16 times more loss in the RG-59 than the RG-6 so it does matter.


while I agree that RG6 is always preferred over RG59, these systems are built with some loss in mind. As long as the loss is within the "head room" it should not make any difference.

Sent from my iPad Pro using Tapatalk


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