# 622 installation and OTA



## kutchins (Mar 20, 2004)

I decided to take the plunge and ordered a 622 to replace my 921 and a 508. Dish scrambled the install orders so badly that the tech needed to change many items on the work order, but did so in good humor. 

The process, took six hours in the hot S. Texas sun, and when he left at 3pm, he said he still had three other installs to do. It was a very difficult process, but he was able to solve most issues, but one remains.

With the 921, OTA signal strength with my amplified rooftop antenna was exceptional. The problem is with the 622, the same feed looses nearly 1/2 of its power cutting out many of the digital locals I had before. The same shared feed continues to work well on another set.

Has anybody seen this before and/or are there any suggestions? I hate to give up what I had before just to use the "improved" receiver.

Thanks,

Mike


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

First off the 622 OTA scale is different than the 921. 622 is 0-100 and the 921 is 0-125. 

Second. I would check the connections on the 622 OTA. If you can take the box that works and plug it into the same location as the 622 you are having issues with that will also help narrow down the issue. 

That would be a good starting point. Also if you can take the other cable feeding the other TV out of the picture that would help in minimizing your configuration to see if you are still seeing the issue.


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## kutchins (Mar 20, 2004)

Ron Barry said:


> First off the 622 OTA scale is different than the 921. 622 is 0-100 and the 921 is 0-125.
> 
> Second. I would check the connections on the 622 OTA. If you can take the box that works and plug it into the same location as the 622 you are having issues with that will also help narrow down the issue.
> 
> That would be a good starting point. Also if you can take the other cable feeding the other TV out of the picture that would help in minimizing your configuration to see if you are still seeing the issue.


I took the cable connected to TV2 and ran its signal to the 622 with the same result. I guess it would be a good thing to connect the extention cable from where it goes into the 622 and run it to TV 2 to try and further isolate the problem.

Thanks for your suggestion. I'll also try to phone tech support and see if they have any ideas.

Mike


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## redbird (May 9, 2005)

It's easy to overload receivers with an amplifier. I would try to unplug the preamp's power supply, see if that's better, if not then bypass it and try again.


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

Another problem might be that the 921 would power the pre-amp on the antenna and the 622 does not, so if you do not have a power injector your pre-amp is not working at all.


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## LtMunst (Aug 24, 2005)

Jim5506 said:


> Another problem might be that the 921 would power the pre-amp on the antenna and the 622 does not, so if you do not have a power injector your pre-amp is not working at all.


Good point! The 921 and early 942s did output some voltage on the OTA feed.


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## deffers (Jan 11, 2006)

I am also having this problem, but with only 3 of the PBS channels. The station is LPB 27 but they broadcast their High Def Feed on 25-1,25-3 and 25-5. The 622 scans them in as 27-1,27-3 and 27-5. My signal strength is less the half. All other channels are very good signal strength.

Dish tech support told me it was a tuner problem.


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## sandrattt (Mar 23, 2005)

kutchins said:


> With the 921, OTA signal strength with my amplified rooftop antenna was exceptional. The problem is with the 622, the same feed looses nearly 1/2 of its power cutting out many of the digital locals I had before. The same shared feed continues to work well on another set.
> 
> Mike


-------------------
Based on my experience, I think the 622 has a better OTA tuner than the 921. I have a CM4228 antenna on the roof with a preamp and had some of my locals were hit and miss with the 921. I never have any trouble receiving these stations with the 622, although the signal strength indicates a lower value.


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## kutchins (Mar 20, 2004)

deffers said:


> I am also having this problem, but with only 3 of the PBS channels. The station is LPB 27 but they broadcast their High Def Feed on 25-1,25-3 and 25-5. The 622 scans them in as 27-1,27-3 and 27-5. My signal strength is less the half. All other channels are very good signal strength.
> 
> Dish tech support told me it was a tuner problem.


I wonder if there's a fix for the tuner problem but I appreciate your comment. Your experience with the PBS Channels is exactly what I'm seeing. The PBS Channels don't register over 35, but the other OTA stations give excellent signal.

I phoned them yesterday about that and another issue and after 90 minutes off and on hold, Dish said that someone would call today. We'll see. Since the installer took so long to finish, he wasn't able to remove the two Dishs he replaced with a new 1000. He told me to phone Dish to arrange their removal. Another hassle with the CSR. Not a huge deal, but they seem to go out of their way to aggravate long-time customers.

Mike


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## kutchins (Mar 20, 2004)

Thanks to all who offered ideas on this issue. I'd like to share other information I found out.

It appears the 622 is working as it should. I phoned the PBS folks here yesterday and they suggested that since their digital signal is the only one here which is VHF rather than UHF, it's more than possible that the 622's circuitry doesn't play well with it. It's far more than I easily understand, but he was very informative.

That added to the fact that theirs is a lower power signal than the other digital stations in San Antonio leads me to the conclusion that, at least for the present time, I'll not be able to get the local PBS signals through the 622. 

Apparently the 921 didn't have that problem, since I got all 4 of their signals with it, but the 622 has so many other good features, I'll just have to keep looking for other solutions.

DBSTalk.Com is a valuable resource.

Mike


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

Mike- Chris Blount here, owner of the forum is in San Antone too. Verify with him. But I believe your station is indeed VHF and as such is licensed for lower power since VHF doesn't require the power as UHF for the same coverage. But more importantly, VHF requires a different antenna design for good reception. Unfortunately it is a larger design physically than the UHF antennas. This is just the nature of the beast. We have the same problem here in Jacksonville too with VHF stations vs, the UHF channels. People who have tried to use the small bowtie and table top antennas modern day rabbit ears, for Jacksonville stations continue to have problems. Others like me who went the proper antenna, an LP yagi 10 ft. off the roof top in free air never have a problem with the same channels including the UHF channels. Right antenna for the signals you expect to see. 

I also have a 921 and I will confirm with you that the 921's Off air tuner is very good. In comparison with other tuners here it gave me the best reliability compared with the HDTIVO, the VOOM, the old 6000 etc. BUT, my new 622 is equally as good, IMO. So, I can't say that the 622's tuner is less than the 921. I'd have to say it is equal.

Talk to Chris in your town and examine your antenna for off air. Maybe that alone is not up to par where it should be, especially for VHF channels. Things to look for are Use of UHF small antenna design, Splitters distributing signals all over the house. Unterminated distribution legs of cable feeds that act as shunts at certain VHF frequencies ( this is a little known issue that very few people recognize with VHF frequencies these days) Old connections corroded and poor contacts. Amplifier with bad power or one that has been hit with static discharge and damaged. All this stuff can lead to signal problems, some at one frequency and not others. 

Also, be careful about comparing the signal meters in the 921 with those in the 622. This was mentioned above. The 921 uses a scale of 0-125 while the 622 is 0-100. In my case the weakest station shows 122 on the 921 while it is 96 on the 622. Without splitting hairs, I'd say the two were equal.


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## ChuckA (Feb 7, 2006)

Mike;

Just before getting my 622 I wanted to try out HD. I have an HD tuner in my TV so I got an inside set top type antenna (never had a roof antenna on the house). I was really pleased I could get so many digital channels with it but I found I could not get our local ABC channels. Researching it, I found that was the only VHF digital station in our area. All the others were UHF. After getting the 622 and having the same experience with that channel, I put a large Rat Shack UHF/VHF antenna in the attic. Problem solved. The VHF channel comes in perfect now. I never expected I would have that problem because I am only 3 miles from the transmission towers in our area. So, VHF is certainly more difficult to pull in than UHF.


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## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

ChuckA said:


> Mike;
> 
> Just before getting my 622 I wanted to try out HD. I have an HD tuner in my TV so I got an inside set top type antenna (never had a roof antenna on the house). I was really pleased I could get so many digital channels with it but I found I could not get our local ABC channels. Researching it, I found that was the only VHF digital station in our area. All the others were UHF. After getting the 622 and having the same experience with that channel, I put a large Rat Shack UHF/VHF antenna in the attic. Problem solved. The VHF channel comes in perfect now. I never expected I would have that problem because I am only 3 miles from the transmission towers in our area. So, VHF is certainly more difficult to pull in than UHF.


Equivalent signal power and VHF is much easier to pull in then UHF. But the FCC allows more power on UHF to make up for this.


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## kutchins (Mar 20, 2004)

Again, thanks to all for the valuable input and suggestions. As an update, I've followed many of the ideas presented here and even have received a follow up phone call from the original installer who said he'd come by and try a few tweaks.

My OTA antenna is amplified and is on a mast on the roof. As mentioned before, it did well with the 921. I do have another HD-ready set, which when connected to the in-house distribution system fed by the OTA antenna, performs very well.

My guess is that the comination of factors including the lower power, VHF transmission of the 4 PBS stations is a fact of life, at least for now. All things considered, since I get the main Public Station off the Satellite, and since the 622 has features which I'm just now getting to, there's not much else to do under the current conditions.

As said before, this group has an enormous wealth of experience and information.

Mike


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## deffers (Jan 11, 2006)

Mike,

Please give us an update if you get this issue resolved. I am in the same boat as you with my PBS stations. They work great on the hd tv tuner but not through the 622's tuner. I really do not think it is power related because I have run new cable, installed a pre-amp, and also tried a much larger antenna all with no change. Must have something to do with the tuner.

I agree with you that the 622 has many other features that I really enjoy.

Good luck.


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## kutchins (Mar 20, 2004)

deffers said:


> Mike,
> 
> Please give us an update if you get this issue resolved. I am in the same boat as you with my PBS stations. They work great on the hd tv tuner but not through the 622's tuner. I really do not think it is power related because I have run new cable, installed a pre-amp, and also tried a much larger antenna all with no change. Must have something to do with the tuner.
> 
> ...


The issue has resolved and I thought I share the information. Last night, just for grins, I tried to get the local PBS stations (9-1 through 9-4) which had previously only registered a signal strength of about 35%. Imagine my surprise when they locked in at 95%!!

I phoned the station today and found that they'd tweaked the transmitter to improve the signal. Since I'm not too technically oriented, I wrote down what the guy said. He said the improvement was due to their "...resetting the exciter in the transmitter which also reset the equalizer.." This apparently had an exponential impact on my reception.

Mike


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## motrac (Jan 5, 2003)

kutchins said:


> resetting the exciter in the transmitter which also reset the equalizer.."
> Mike


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## foghorn2 (Jun 18, 2006)

motrac said:


> ????????????????????


They also added a 8mm plenum above the 2.5 diameter riser right below the di-litium chambers and that helped too.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

kutchins said:


> "...resetting the exciter in the transmitter which also reset the equalizer.."


Perfectly understandable. 

Transmitters are basically big amplifiers. They take a small input signal and turn it into a higher powered signal. The exciter is the device that takes the program material and creates an initial (relatively) low powered signal to be fed into that amplifier. Before the exciter the signal could go on any channel or even another medium than broadcast. The exciter is the box that actually modulates the signals.

So think of it as a big RF modulator. More complicated than that $20-$30 RF modulator that you can pick up at the store to create a channel 3 or 4 (and more powerful).

The engineer rebooted the equipment. Sometimes a power cycle is the easy fix.


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