# eSATA - DIRECTV recommended list



## Doug Brott

*Can I increase the recording capacity of my DVR? *

For folks that are adding HDD capacity to their receiverss, DIRECTV has added the following FAQ to their web page:

DIRECTV.com


> Yes, you can increase the recording capacity of your DVR or HD DVR simply by connecting an external hard drive with greater storage than the receiver's internal hard drive.
> 
> First, make sure you have a compatible receiver. Check the model number inside the small door located on bottom right corner of the front of the receiver. The model number should read either R22 (DIRECTV Plus® DVR) or HR20 or above (DIRECTV Plus® HD DVR).
> 
> You'll need an external hard drive that uses an eSATA connection. The following hard drive models are recommended:
> 
> 
> Western Digital 500GB (model WDG1S5000)
> Seagate 500GB (model ST30500SCA109-RK)
> Western Digital 1TB (model WDG1S10000)
> [STRIKE]Seagate 1TB (model ST31000SCA109-RK)[/STRIKE]
> 
> Follow these steps to connect the external hard drive:
> 
> 
> Turn off your receiver by unplugging the power cord. (Do not rely on the power button.)
> Look for the port on the back of your receiver labeled SATA.
> Connect the eSATA hard drive with an eSATA cable. Make sure the cable is firmly connected on both ends.
> Turn on the eSATA hard drive and give it several seconds to spin up to speed.
> Plug in the power chord of your receiver.
> 
> When your receiver reboots, it will automatically see the newly-connected hard drive. The hard drive inside your receiver will be disabled.
> 
> You now have expanded recording capacity. With a 1TB hard drive, you can record up to 200 hours of HD programming.
> 
> _Please note: We offer this tip because we want to help you get the most out of your DIRECTV experience. It is recommended for advanced users who are comfortable working with electronic hardware. This modification of your DIRECTV system is not officially supported by DIRECTV._


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## Mike Bertelson

Doug Brott said:


> *Can I increase the recording capacity of my DVR? *
> 
> For folks that are adding HDD capacity to their receiverss, DIRECTV has added the following FAQ to their web page:
> 
> link





> This modification of your DIRECTV system is not officially supported by DIRECTV.


DirecTV considers this a modification of our system? Interesting.

Official guidance. This is a good thing and step in right direction. 

Mike


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## Drew2k

Hey! That looks familiar! 

I just posted it 5 minutes ago in the Working eSATA thread, but Doug beat me by a few minutes...

DIRECTV actually has a full-page discussion on drive expansion at the link below:

*Increase Recording Capacity on Your DVR or HD DVR*


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## Kansas Zephyr

This should probably be a sticky thread.


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## Doug Brott

Kansas Zephyr said:


> This should probably be a sticky thread.


Yup .. I'll keep it stuck for a while.


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## dave29

That's interesting that they even put a 500gb model on there considering that the latest DVR's have a 500gb drive. Although, it would basically double an HR20-21's capacity.


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## mabellboi

It says the standard HD becomes "disable"... safe to assume it won't access anything that is already stored on there? Does it turn off the internal hard drive entirely so it's not spinning? Does it copy the content over to the new one? 

If I unplug the larger one, and reboot, does that standard one in the dvr become "enabled" again?


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## davring

mabellboi said:


> It says the standard HD becomes "disable"... safe to assume it won't access anything that is already stored on there? Does it copy the content over to the new one?
> 
> If I unplug the larger one, and reboot, does that standard one in the dvr become "enabled" again?


It will not copy any content from the internal drive and yes, if you disconnect the external drive it will revert back to using the internal. Also, whan adding an E-sata drive you will need to rebuild your series links and I believe your favorite lists as well as that info is stored on the HDD.


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## CopyCat

This also keeps the receiver from being replaced when the hard drive wears out. The CSR will ask if there is a eSATA drive attached and if so, turn off power to the receiver and unplug the eSATA. Now turn the receiver back on.

"Oh it works, you need to get a new external drive, until then you can use your internal drive."


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## Drew2k

CopyCat said:


> This also keeps the receiver from being replaced when the hard drive wears out. The CSR will ask if there is a eSATA drive attached and if so, turn off power to the receiver and unplug the eSATA. Now turn the receiver back on.
> 
> "Oh it works, you need to get a new external drive, until then you can use your internal drive."


From the grin with your post, I suspect you are jesting, right? 

It's unsupported right now, so I wonder if while troubleshooting a CSR would ask if an eSATA drive is installed. Has anyone experienced this yet?

From other posts here at DBSTalk, it appears that the same error code is given whether the internal or external drive fails, so I would think it's in DIRECTV's best interest to have a different error code for external drive failures simply so that troubleshooting calls *would* be simplified.


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## Rich

Drew2k said:


> From the grin with your post, I suspect you are jesting, right?
> 
> It's unsupported right now, so I wonder if while troubleshooting a CSR would ask if an eSATA drive is installed. Has anyone experienced this yet?


I haven't talked to any CSRs that knew what an eSATA is. I always ask the CSRs (I only deal with PP CSRs as a rule) if they have an HR. I've only talked to one or two CSRs that did have an HR. Now, they open the door to questions about eSATAs that they will not be able to answer.



> From other posts here at DBSTalk, it appears that the same error code is given whether the internal or external drive fails, so I would think it's in DIRECTV's best interest to have a different error code for external drive failures simply so that troubleshooting calls *would* be simplified.


The only error message I've ever seen was just after an NR and the HR said that the storage device was, and this is a paraphrase, corrupted. That was about an eSATA. I've never seen an error message concerning an internal drive. I've had quite a few replacements that I couldn't activate and they gave no error messages.

I did make the mistake of hooking up an eSATA to a 21-100 before activating it. Still don't know why I did that, it was a perfectly good FAP and the 100 just destroyed it during the boot up process. That's something they should have been included in the message. Something like "Do not attempt to activate an HR with an eSATA hooked up to it."

By the way, I count sixteen acronyms in my part of this post. "...Kettle...Black?" :lol:

Rich


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## armophob

I see editing is alive and well at Directv's web site. :lol:

# 5. Plug in the power _chord _of your receiver.


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## Rich

armophob said:


> I see editing is alive and well at Directv's web site. :lol:
> 
> # 5. Plug in the power _chord _of your receiver.


At least they got the sequence right. Glad to see some of them are reading the forum.

I gotta say this: Kinda strikes a chord when you see something like a misspelled word in a document, doesn't it? :lol:

Rich


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## oldbamaguy

I wonder why they didn't mention the Western Digital 2TB WD20EADS??
When I asked DBSTALK what to get, the WD20EADS in an Antec MX-1 enclosure was the eSATA combination most recommended by a wide margin.
Best To ALL!!
oldbamaguy


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## Drew2k

oldbamaguy said:


> I wonder why they didn't mention the Western Digital 2TB WD20EADS??
> When I asked DBSTALK what to get, the WD20EADS in an Antec MX-1 enclosure was the eSATA combination most recommended by a wide margin.
> Best To ALL!!
> oldbamaguy


The DIRECTV recommendations are all for pre-assembled off-the-shelf eSATA drives, that is, they are drives within enclosures so they just have to be unboxed and then are plug-and-play and would work best for the novice user. DBSTalk has some more advanced users, so there have been recommendations here for parts to-be-assembled as well as off-the-shelf eSATA drives. The whole thing is even though it's still not officially supported, DIRECTV still wants it to be as easy as possible for the users...


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## Doug Brott

I think there may be some sort of special processing with the recommended drives, although I don't know specifically what that means.


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## hdtvfan0001

oldbamaguy said:


> I wonder why they didn't mention the Western Digital 2TB WD20EADS??
> When I asked DBSTALK what to get, the WD20EADS in an Antec MX-1 enclosure was the eSATA combination most recommended by a wide margin.





Doug Brott said:


> I think there may be some sort of special processing with the recommended drives, although I don't know specifically what that means.


As oldalabamaguy mentioned...a number of folks have successfully used the WD20EAD.

But if it's not on "the list"...using an alternative drive is done at your own risk. You may have *no* problems whatsoever, but just be aware alternatives have not been "certified" by DirecTV as acceptable.


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## Drew2k

hdtvfan0001 said:


> As oldalabamaguy mentioned...a number of folks have successfully used the WD20EAD.
> 
> But if it's not on "the list"...using an alternative drive is done at your own risk. You may have *no* problems whatsoever, but just be aware alternatives have not been "certified" by DirecTV as acceptable.


I think it's more fair to say that use of ANY eSATa drive is at the user's own risk, as DIRECTV makes it clear that use of external drives is not officially supported. Also the site only recommends some specific eSATA drives, but it does not say they are certified. To do so would elevate those drives to "officially supported" status.


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## harsh

armophob said:


> # 5. Plug in the power _chord _of your receiver.


You didn't recognize this as being a message from Earl?


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## armophob

harsh said:


> You didn't recognize this as being a message from Earl?


Ahhh, a secret _chode_ from Earl


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## bearklaws

Does anyone know the format of the recomended drives? fat 32 or ntsf ?


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## CCarncross

bearklaws said:


> Does anyone know the format of the recomended drives? fat 32 or ntsf ?


Drives don't typically come pre-formatted, your OS needs to handle that. When you connect it to the DVR and turn it back on, the DVR takes care of all the hard drive prep for you.


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## dave29

bearklaws said:


> Does anyone know the format of the recomended drives? fat 32 or ntsf ?


Like mentioned, the DVR will format the drive for you automatically. Just plug it in and the receiver does the rest.


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## bearklaws

I did a little reading and seen mixed reviews with the FAP 1TB... I did try it with the HR-22 100 and it went strait through a boot up with out seeing the new drive at all. so i tried it again and it would get stuck and need to reboot 3 times, so it is a no go... The hard drive i had from before and it was formated to fat 32, so i quick format to ntsf.

Thanks


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## Rich

bearklaws said:


> I did a little reading and seen mixed reviews with the FAP 1TB... I did try it with the HR-22 100 and it went strait through a boot up with out seeing the new drive at all. so i tried it again and it would get stuck and need to reboot 3 times, so it is a no go... The hard drive i had from before and it was formated to fat 32, so i quick format to ntsf.
> 
> Thanks


The FAPs do not work with the 21s, that includes the 22s and 23s. They do work very well with the 20-700s.

Rich


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## bearklaws

rich584 said:


> The FAPs do not work with the 21s, that includes the 22s and 23s. They do work very well with the 20-700s.
> 
> Rich


I am one of those people that need to try for them self...I was not let down when it did not work,Thanks to all the info in here... and this is a good place for info...Every time i have had a problem for the last couple of years, I have came here....

Thanks


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## CCarncross

For the record the the HR's use the xfs file system. Your issue is FAP's do not work with that model as rich84 said. I highly recommend returning that piece of ^%(* and getting an MX-1 and a WD Green model. These seem to work no matter which HR2x you have.


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## bearklaws

CCarncross said:


> For the record the the HR's use the xfs file system. Your issue is FAP's do not work with that model as rich84 said. I highly recommend returning that piece of ^%(* and getting an MX-1 and a WD Green model. These seem to work no matter which HR2x you have.


As I said before, I did some reading, knew about the problems...
I did not make myself clear...That was a hard drive i had for about 6 months... Why not try to see if it would work...

Thank's for letting me know the file system....


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## Rich

bearklaws said:


> I am one of those people that need to try for them self...I was not let down when it did not work,Thanks to all the info in here... and this is a good place for info...Every time i have had a problem for the last couple of years, I have came here....
> 
> Thanks


Yeah, I did the same thing. I was positive I could get an FAP to work with a 21 and it did at first. I actually got it to record one program, but I went to the guide and pushed the record button on something and it did record it, but that was it. Nothing else would record.

Rich


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## bearklaws

Just wanted to add. Tried all formats to try to get it to recognize the hard drive with no luck... Never hurts to try...

Thank you for all the help


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## Villager

I reported in another thread-- not sure which one-- that I have a Seagate Baracuda 1.5 TB mounted in the Antec MX-1 which does record when connected to the HR21/100 BUT on almost every reboot the external drive (the eSATA drive) is reformatted on the bootup which renders it useless. Just to doublecheck on this, I reinstalled it last night and it recorded the programming that I wanted, and tonight I watched the programming. All was well until I forced a reboot on the system and the eSATA drive was once again reformatted erasing all the settings and programming. 

There are many reports that FAP's will not work with the HR21/100. What will work?


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## Doug Brott

Villager said:


> There are many reports that FAP's will not work with the HR21/100. What will work?


The first post points to the ones that DIRECTV recommends.


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## Rich

Villager said:


> I reported in another thread-- not sure which one-- that I have a Seagate Baracuda 1.5 TB mounted in the Antec MX-1 which does record when connected to the HR21/100 BUT on almost every reboot the external drive (the eSATA drive) is reformatted on the bootup which renders it useless. Just to doublecheck on this, I reinstalled it last night and it recorded the programming that I wanted, and tonight I watched the programming. All was well until I forced a reboot on the system and the eSATA drive was once again reformatted erasing all the settings and programming.
> 
> There are many reports that FAP's will not work with the HR21/100. What will work?


Have another HR? If you do, try the Antec on that. If it works on one, it should work on the other. That leaves the 21-100 as the problem. I do know that the Antec MX-1 will work with 21-700s, I have two 21-700s with 1TB Seagate Cuda drives in the MX-1 enclosures and they work perfectly. Seems as if the 100 series of HRs has this problem, especially the 22s.

Not many people report problems with the Antec enclosure. I would suspect the 21-100.

The FAPs definitely do not work with the 21s. The Seagate Xtreme is kinda iffy on the 21s. Both work very well on the 20-700s. I have never tried a My Book eSATA on a 21, but I do know that they do not work on the 20-700s. I have seen posts that stated that the poster had My Books working on 21s. A Cavalry eSATA will also work on the 21s, I've had one on a 21-700 for well over a year without any problems.

The few 100s that I've gotten as replacements and been able to activate would not work with any eSATAs, not even the Cavs.

Rich


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## Villager

I have an HR-20/700 at another location and I plan to recheck the Seagate 1.5TB/MX-1 combo on that unit sometime next week. I expect it to work just fine. I also have a WD 500GB in a non-descript enclosure (actually an Eagle, if I remember correctly) which has not worked on the HR21-100 but does work on the HR20-700. Summarizing, I have 3 eSATA drives (a 500, a 750 FAP and a 1.5) and two enclosures. It seems that no matter how I mix/match, all work with the HR20-700 and none correctly work on the HR21-100. So, I come to the conclusion that there is an issue with the HR21-100. Unfortunately, I do not have either of the two specific units that DirecTV reports to be compatible with this particular DVR unit.


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## Rich

Villager said:


> I have an HR-20/700 at another location and I plan to recheck the Seagate 1.5TB/MX-1 combo on that unit sometime next week. I expect it to work just fine. I also have a WD 500GB in a non-descript enclosure (actually an Eagle, if I remember correctly) which has not worked on the HR21-100 but does work on the HR20-700. Summarizing, I have 3 eSATA drives (a 500, a 750 FAP and a 1.5) and two enclosures. It seems that no matter how I mix/match, all work with the HR20-700 and none correctly work on the HR21-100. So, I come to the conclusion that there is an issue with the HR21-100. Unfortunately, I do not have either of the two specific units that DirecTV reports to be compatible with this particular DVR unit.


The units that D* recommends have only 1TB recording capacity. Seagate has started selling it's 2TB drive, I saw a 2TB Xtreme in BB's flyer today for $269. Haven't seen the bare drive for sale yet. I'd look for the Seagate Showcase series to get larger quickly. Unfortunately they are quite expensive compared to a bare drive and an Antec MX-1 enclosure.

Doesn't surprise me that the 21-100 doesn't work with any of your eSATAs. I won't go any further, ever body knows what I think of the 100 series of HRs. Also doesn't surprise me that the best of the HRs, the 20-700, does work with each of your eSATA setups.

Rich


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## Jaytee946

I see the Seagate 1TB (model ST31000SCA109-RK) is on Sale on Seagate's website for $164.99, I haven't seen it cheaper anywhere else?


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## Doug Brott

rich584 said:


> The units that D* recommends have only 1TB recording capacity. Seagate has started selling it's 2TB drive, I saw a 2TB Xtreme in BB's flyer today for $269. Haven't seen the bare drive for sale yet. I'd look for the Seagate Showcase series to get larger quickly. Unfortunately they are quite expensive compared to a bare drive and an Antec MX-1 enclosure.


Not every HDD works the same .. If you'd check the specs on the ones above, you'd find that they are tuned for better performance with DVRs. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that DIRECTV makes use of features specific to those models.


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## DRod

Drew2k said:


> The DIRECTV recommendations are all for pre-assembled off-the-shelf eSATA drives, that is, they are drives within enclosures so they just have to be unboxed and then are plug-and-play and would work best for the novice user. DBSTalk has some more advanced users, so there have been recommendations here for parts to-be-assembled as well as off-the-shelf eSATA drives. The whole thing is even though it's still not officially supported, DIRECTV still wants it to be as easy as possible for the users...


Sorry to be so newb...can I assume that eSATA is the underlying characteristic for external hard drive choices? CostCo has a WD MyBook 1TB drive for $129.99.

Funny thing is if you go to Amazon, the WD drive recommended by D* says "My DVR Expander" (link)...unsure if there's anyting special about that.


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## Doug Brott

DRod said:


> Funny thing is if you go to Amazon, the WD drive recommended by D* says "My DVR Expander" (link)...unsure if there's anyting special about that.


Yes, there is something special about that .. the "DVR" part of the name is important. Yes, other drives will work, but it is my understanding that for reliability it should be one of the models listed above.


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## DRod

Makes sense. Thanks for the prompt reply.

One other scenario...let's say I record some movies onto my external drive. Could I bring that with me on a trip and watch those movies on my laptop?


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## CCarncross

DRod said:


> Makes sense. Thanks for the prompt reply.
> 
> One other scenario...let's say I record some movies onto my external drive. Could I bring that with me on a trip and watch those movies on my laptop?


No, whats on that external drive is only viewable while connected to the DVR it was recorded on, you can't even attach it to another HD DVR. The recordings are married to the dvr they were recorded on.


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## Rich

Jaytee946 said:


> I see the Seagate 1TB (model ST31000SCA109-RK) is on Sale on Seagate's website for $164.99, I haven't seen it cheaper anywhere else?


If that's a Showcase model that's a good price. Just a bit more than you'd pay for an Antec enclosure and a bare drive. But only a 1TB? They will get larger soon.

Rich


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## Doug Brott

rich584 said:


> If that's a Showcase model that's a good price. Just a bit more than you'd pay for an Antec enclosure and a bare drive. But only a 1TB? They will get larger soon.
> 
> Rich


DIRECTV doesn't currently recommend drives over 1TB ..


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## wafi

rich584 said:


> Doesn't surprise me that the 21-100 doesn't work with any of your eSATAs. I won't go any further, ever body knows what I think of the 100 series of HRs. Also doesn't surprise me that the best of the HRs, the 20-700, does work with each of your eSATA setups.
> 
> Rich


Crap so the one HD-DVR that I have turns out to be the worst of all the DirecTV HD-DVRs that came out huh! Just great!


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## mep916

I've a HR21-700. Yesterday, I successfully paired it with a Seagate 1.5TB drive, enclosed in an Antec MX-1. The drive seemed to format and startup correctly, however, there is a bit of an issue when viewing recorded content.

Every few minutes, the video freezes for a brief moment, about a second or two. It'll run fine, then do it again. It's a constant pattern and I've noticed this with every recorded show. The drive is new as well as the enclosure, and I don't suspect any problems with the drive, although I suppose it's possible.

Does anyone have any ideas? Thanks!

EDIT: I prolly should've put this in the issues thread. Sorry about that.


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## Rich

mep916 said:


> I've a HR21-700. Yesterday, I successfully paired it with a Seagate 1.5TB drive, enclosed in an Antec MX-1. The drive seemed to format and startup correctly, however, there is a bit of an issue when viewing recorded content.
> 
> Every few minutes, the video freezes for a brief moment, about a second or two. It'll run fine, then do it again. It's a constant pattern and I've noticed this with every recorded show. The drive is new as well as the enclosure, and I don't suspect any problems with the drive, although I suppose it's possible.
> 
> Does anyone have any ideas? Thanks!
> 
> EDIT: I prolly should've put this in the issues thread. Sorry about that.


Nah, you're in the right thread. You might have one of the hard drives that Seagate was having a problem with a few months ago. I'd suggest writing down the model number of the drive and calling Seagate tech service. Here's Seagate's number, 1-800-732-4283, it's one of the automated phones, just press the number for tech service. They might be able to fix it over the phone with a software download. Or, they will send you a replacement drive. If you bought it from someplace local, take it back and get another one.

Rich


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## mep916

rich584 said:


> Nah, you're in the right thread. You might have one of the hard drives that Seagate was having a problem with a few months ago. I'd suggest writing down the model number of the drive and calling Seagate tech service. Here's Seagate's number, 1-800-732-4283, it's one of the automated phones, just press the number for tech service. They might be able to fix it over the phone with a software download. Or, they will send you a replacement drive. If you bought it from someplace local, take it back and get another one.
> 
> Rich


So, I'm assuming this freezing issue is usually related to a faulty hard drive. Perhaps a firmware issue? Thanks for the number. I'll give them a call. I've another 1.5TB drive I'll try out tonight. Same model.


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## Rich

mep916 said:


> So, I'm assuming this freezing issue is usually related to a faulty hard drive. Perhaps a firmware issue? Thanks for the number. I'll give them a call. I've another 1.5TB drive I'll try out tonight. Same model.


I really doubt it is the MX-1 causing the problem. Never seen a post reporting that. I put a Seagate 1.5 in my "owned" 20-700 and it did freeze up a few times, but the problem seemed to heal itself. Doesn't do it anymore. I have five Seagate drives that are on the "problem" list and yet I have had no problems with them, except for the brief problem with freeze ups on the internal drive, so it is not every drive on that list.

I'd still give Seagate a call and see if they can download a fix for you.

To get back to your original question, many things cause freeze ups. I think of freeze ups as something that can be fixed with a click of the remote and lock ups as something that can only be fixed by a reboot. And I never use the red button to reboot. Never.

Anyhow, the freeze ups can be caused by software, bad HDDs, HDMI switches, etc. No way to really answer your question. Same thing with lock ups. The lock ups are a lot more serious. They can be caused by all kinds of things.

I do think your problem is the HDD, but if you still have problems with the other 1.5, it might (probably) be the MX-1.

Rich


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## Doug Brott

mep916 said:


> I've a HR21-700. Yesterday, I successfully paired it with a Seagate 1.5TB drive, enclosed in an Antec MX-1. The drive seemed to format and startup correctly, however, there is a bit of an issue when viewing recorded content.


If the HDD is not specifically for DVRs, then it simply may not work the way you expect. All drives are not created equal. Also, since it's 1.5TB, it's definitely not on the list of drives that are recommended by DIRECTV.


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## Just Ask

Seems like the HR-21-100 is a problem child with these external drives and that is the one I have in our main viewing area. Given that, that would be the one I would want to improve the capacity on. 

So, just to be sure.....The Seagate St31000sca109-rk 1tb unit listed in post # 1 should work with the HR21-100, right? Has anyone actually installed the 1 TB unit with the HR21-100?

Thanks in advance!


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## MIMOTech

You should also note in your sticky that this new external drive replaces the internal one and is the only drive (intrnal and external do not add up for expaned capacity) the DVR will use. Also that the data on the internal drive is not lost and can be played if the external drive eSATA plug is pulled and the DVR rebooted.


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## Drew2k

MIMOTech said:


> You should also note in your sticky that this new external drive replaces the internal one and is the only drive (intrnal and external do not add up for expaned capacity) the DVR will use. Also that the data on the internal drive is not lost and can be played if the external drive eSATA plug is pulled and the DVR rebooted.


By that token, it should also be noted that when installing an eSATA drive for the first time, Series Links need to be recreated. Users should therefore document their series links stored on the internal drive before adding the eSATA drive that first time.


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## Jaytee946

I installed the Seagate 1TB drive, and the first thing I noticed was the increase of speed of my DVR (21-700). It had been slow changing channels, showing the guide, etc. since the 0x312 upgrade and when using the keypad the numbers would be so slow inputting to the DVR it would cause the wrong channel to appear, but that all disappeared after the external drive install.
Any thoughts on why?


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## Doug Brott

MIMOTech said:


> You should also note in your sticky that this new external drive replaces the internal one and is the only drive (intrnal and external do not add up for expaned capacity) the DVR will use. Also that the data on the internal drive is not lost and can be played if the external drive eSATA plug is pulled and the DVR rebooted.





Drew2k said:


> By that token, it should also be noted that when installing an eSATA drive for the first time, Series Links need to be recreated. Users should therefore document their series links stored on the internal drive before adding the eSATA drive that first time.


You guys are doing a good job of noting that .. I was simply pointing out that DIRECTV now has a list of Drives that can be used.


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## Just Ask

Doug Brott said:


> You guys are doing a good job of noting that .. I was simply pointing out that DIRECTV now has a list of Drives that can be used.


So noted :lol:


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## Rich

Just Ask said:


> Seems like the HR-21-100 is a problem child with these external drives and that is the one I have in our main viewing area. Given that, that would be the one I would want to improve the capacity on.
> 
> So, just to be sure.....The Seagate St31000sca109-rk 1tb unit listed in post # 1 should work with the HR21-100, right? Has anyone actually installed the 1 TB unit with the HR21-100?
> 
> Thanks in advance!


You'll notice that Seagate only recommends the Showcase models for HRs built by Pace. Your's isn't. Only those HRs that end in 700 are built by Pace. I spent quite a while talking to folks at Seagate this week and you'd be amazed at what they don't know about D* HRs.

Another thing to consider is that eSATAs bog down an HR when they get to about the 30% level. Buying a larger eSATA allows you to bypass that for a longer period. The Showcases will come out with larger HDDs in them. Then we'll be told that D* recommends those larger HDDs.

Nobody I talked to at Seagate knew anything about partnering with D* to make the Showcase series.

Rich


----------



## bhanks

Well I drove 65 miles one way yesterday to get me one of them
eSATA xternal hard drives. I couldn't find any of the recommended
model numbers. I ended up buying a Western Digital "My Book Home
Edition" eSATA model-number WD10000H1CS, which the Best Buy clerk assured me 
the numbers I was looking for were old stuff and this latest unit should work.
I have spent most of the day trying to get it work and my HR20-700 will not recognize it. 

Anyone know if this should work and I am doing something wrong?
Would appreciate any advise....I sure hate to drive 120 miles to
return this unit.

thanks,

Bill H


----------



## CCarncross

My Books are not supported...the WD solution is called the my dvr extender. its so much less hassle to order a bare bones WD 1-2TB green drive, and put it in an ANTEC MX-1. this combo works with all current HR2x models....


----------



## bhanks

CCarncross said:


> My Books are not supported...the WD solution is called the my dvr extender. its so much less hassle to order a bare bones WD 1-2TB green drive, and put it in an ANTEC MX-1. this combo works with all current HR2x models....


thanks,CC. sounds like another wasted trip for me


----------



## bhanks

bhanks said:


> thanks,CC. sounds like another wasted trip for me


Correction! I may keep it, it worked on my HR22-100 on the first try.
Only problem, its in the wrong location....decisions, decisions....


----------



## TigerDriver

I just received a new HR2x. I've ordered an 1TB eSATA drive (Seagate ST31000333AS SY), and am curious about the sequence of installing the new drive in the new receiver.

(1) Should I setup the new HR2x using the internal drive, then install the eSata? 

or

(2) Plug in the eSata before plugging in the HR2x for the first time. (That is, does the HR2x the code in ROM to format the eSATA, and a loader to fetch the current firmware.)

Thanks,

Joe


----------



## harsh

I'd suggest that you try the DVR as-is to make sure that what they sent you works. When you've verified that that works and you have the latest software, then you can add another level of complication.


----------



## houskamp

TigerDriver said:


> I just received a new HR2x. I've ordered an 1TB eSATA drive (Seagate ST31000333AS SY), and am curious about the sequence of installing the new drive in the new receiver.
> 
> (1) Should I setup the new HR2x using the internal drive, then install the eSata?
> 
> or
> 
> (2) Plug in the eSata before plugging in the HR2x for the first time. (That is, does the HR2x the code in ROM to format the eSATA, and a loader to fetch the current firmware.)
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Joe


 either way.. it will automaticaly format and prep the disk..


----------



## dbronstein

harsh said:


> I'd suggest that you try the DVR as-is to make sure that what they sent you works. When you've verified that that works and you have the latest software, then you can add another level of complication.


I agree with this. Don't set up your SLs or anything on the internal drive, just make sure the unit works. Then connect the external drive and set everything up on there.


----------



## TigerDriver

dbronstein said:


> I agree with this. Don't set up your SLs or anything on the internal drive, just make sure the unit works. Then connect the external drive and set everything up on there.


This was my instinct, too.


----------



## CCarncross

I would add that make sure the unit works as is, start a recording for a few minutes so the internal drive is not blank, then hook up the external, that way when the dvr is rebooted to switch to the external, you'll know if it recognized the external correctly. If your partial recording is there after hooking up the eSATA, then it didnt switch to the external drive.


----------



## easttexasaggie04

Hey guys I'm new to this message board, but have problems with an external hard drive on my DVR. I'd like your thoughts on my setup.

I have a DirecTV HR20-100S hooked up to an WD "DVR Expander" 1TB via eSATA. It works great...EXCEPT twice a day it freezes and reboots. Not sure why. I've tried to reset by receiver, but it still happens. Alot of my recordings will be "partial" because it froze during recording. The receiver never froze at all before hooking up the new HD.

Would it do any good to get a newer receiver? Or is it an issue with the HD? Not sure what to do.

Thanks in advance for the help!!


----------



## CCarncross

Disconnect the drive and go back to the internal to see if you get the same rebooting situation. If you do, you know its the DVR, if you don't you know its the external drive...new or not, hard drives do go bad, it could be something just that simple.


----------



## easttexasaggie04

Well now I've gone from bad to worse in this situation. I went ahead and exchanged the "My DVR Expander" for a WD My Book 1TB eSATA, thinking the first was built more for a Tivo unit instead of a standard DVR. Now my receiver won't recogonize it at all. I've tried rebooting it probably 8 times now, it ignores the external drive and only reads the internal.

I'm pretty frustrated now...any hints on making it work? I guess I might just give up and use the small memory in the internal hard drive..as much as i hate to. dang


----------



## CCarncross

My Books are NOT compatible with any of the HD DVR's last I heard....why didnt you just exchange the unit you had for the same thing? I think your other one was just bad.


----------



## easttexasaggie04

Well Best Buy was out of the DVR Expanders so I thought I would try a different route, bad idea. The MyBook was never recognized, even after 10 attempts and trying every trick I know.

Which HD have people had the best luck with using the H20-100S receiver? I'm afraid if I get another DVR Expander that it will just freeze and reboot again every day. Keep in mind, I'm a novice at all this stuff.

Thanks for the help.


----------



## harsh

easttexasaggie04 said:


> Which HD have people had the best luck with using the H20-100S receiver?


Did you mean HR20-100S?


----------



## Doug Brott

rich584 said:


> You'll notice that Seagate only recommends the Showcase models for HRs built by Pace. Your's isn't. Only those HRs that end in 700 are built by Pace. I spent quite a while talking to folks at Seagate this week and you'd be amazed at what they don't know about D* HRs.


You'd be amazed at what DIRECTV does know about Seagate HDDs, though 

As for the note about Pace .. it's more about not updating the data sheet than anything else. Audiovox & Samsung models should work fine as well.


----------



## Doug Brott

easttexasaggie04 said:


> Well now I've gone from bad to worse in this situation. I went ahead and exchanged the "My DVR Expander" for a WD My Book 1TB eSATA, thinking the first was built more for a Tivo unit instead of a standard DVR. Now my receiver won't recogonize it at all. I've tried rebooting it probably 8 times now, it ignores the external drive and only reads the internal.





CCarncross said:


> My Books are NOT compatible with any of the HD DVR's last I heard....why didnt you just exchange the unit you had for the same thing? I think your other one was just bad.


Also, the My DVR Expander is created specifically for DVRs .. There are reasons why it is recommended.


----------



## hasan

rich584 said:


> The FAPs do not work with the 21s, that includes the 22s and 23s. They do work very well with the 20-700s.
> 
> Rich


Yep, I've been using a FAP 750 for over a year with my HR20-700 and it works perfectly. As noted, this same drive would not work with my HR21-200.


----------



## volkl

Have not seen Lacie mentioned much, but I got a D2 Quadra 1 TB and it works fine with an HR20-100. If my memory is correct, I think many hd's work with the HR20's.

It is a bit more expensive because of the firewire capability, but it did come with an esata cable that did not need trimming, it is fanless and thus quiet due to its aluminum enclosure.

An inquiry of Lacie as to who they use for their disk supplier for the D2 was answered with either Seagate or Hitatchi, but they could not tell which one without opening it and voiding its 3 year warranty.


----------



## TJStaar

I have the Western Digital 2TB drive in an Antec MX-1 on a HR20-100, and it has been flawless. I've had it running a couple of weeks so far.


----------



## easttexasaggie04

Will the Seagate FreeAgent Xtreme 1TB External w/ eSATA work with a HR20-100S DVR? I'm going to take the MyBook back to Best Buy today and want to pick something up in its place. 

Let me know your thoughts..thanks!


----------



## CCarncross

easttexasaggie04 said:


> Will the Seagate FreeAgent Xtreme 1TB External w/ eSATA work with a HR20-100S DVR? I'm going to take the MyBook back to Best Buy today and want to pick something up in its place.
> 
> Let me know your thoughts..thanks!


I wouldnt give two shakes to anything other than one of the specifically recommended by D* ones, or a good SATA drive in an ANTEC MX-1. I've read about way too many failures with the FAP's and IMO, the jury is still out on the Extremes due to lack of empirical data. Since you already bought it, I would just wait for a replacement My DVR Expander from Best Buy....


----------



## Rich

easttexasaggie04 said:


> Will the Seagate FreeAgent Xtreme 1TB External w/ eSATA work with a HR20-100S DVR? I'm going to take the MyBook back to Best Buy today and want to pick something up in its place.
> 
> Let me know your thoughts..thanks!


I've never gotten an eSATA to work on a 100. But, I do have two 1.5 Xtremes working on two 20-700s. Been working perfectly for about a year. Using logic, usually an act of futility on the HRs, the Xtremes should work on a 20-100. Never got one to work on a 21. The My Book will definitely not work on a 20. Might work on a 21. Mixed reviews.

Get the larger HDD Xtreme, you'll be happier with it.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Doug Brott said:


> You'd be amazed at what DIRECTV does know about Seagate HDDs, though


For the better part of three years, I've been amazed at what D* doesn't know about their own HRs. What they didn't know about the TiVos and Ultimate TV DVRs I thought was forgivable, but not to train anyone on the HRs is a poor way to run a business and treat customers.

But, you're right, I'd be amazed if D* does know enough about Seagate drives to recommend the proper drives for the HRs. I have five Seagate drives, external and internal and all work perfectly and have no adverse affect on the HRs' performance. The internal is in a 20-700 that I "own".


----------



## Rich

CCarncross said:


> My Books are NOT compatible with any of the HD DVR's last I heard....why didnt you just exchange the unit you had for the same thing? I think your other one was just bad.


Some folks have them running on 21s. At least they posted that they do. I do know that they will not work on 20s. WD told me about a year ago that the My Book series would not work with any DVR of any make or model. Then I started seeing posts about them working on 21s. Never tried one. Not big enough. The Antec is just so much easier and more dependable.

Rich


----------



## Rich

easttexasaggie04 said:


> Hey guys I'm new to this message board, but have problems with an external hard drive on my DVR. I'd like your thoughts on my setup.
> 
> I have a DirecTV HR20-100S hooked up to an WD "DVR Expander" 1TB via eSATA. It works great...EXCEPT twice a day it freezes and reboots. Not sure why. I've tried to reset by receiver, but it still happens. Alot of my recordings will be "partial" because it froze during recording. The receiver never froze at all before hooking up the new HD.
> 
> Would it do any good to get a newer receiver? Or is it an issue with the HD? Not sure what to do.
> 
> Thanks in advance for the help!!


I've read so many bad reviews about the WD Expanders that I don't find this surprising. I'd be more inclined to buy the Showcase.

Rich


----------



## Rich

dbronstein said:


> I agree with this. Don't set up your SLs or anything on the internal drive, just make sure the unit works. Then connect the external drive and set everything up on there.


Just make sure you record something on the internal drive so that you can immediately tell if the HR recognizes the eSATA.

Rich


----------



## waxings

I am extremely confused. I have a HR23 that I am getting this high pitched ringing from. It has been replaced 2 times with the same result. I am thinking that it is the drive that is making the noise. I want to get an external drive but I am confused on what one will work. Can anyone help me with all this information?

The ringing is driving me MAD!:hair:

Thanks!


----------



## bhanks

CCarncross said:


> My Books are NOT compatible with any of the HD DVR's last I heard....why didnt you just exchange the unit you had for the same thing? I think your other one was just bad.


My HR22-100 works fine with the 1TB My Book Home Edition eSATA model-number 10000H1CS.

Only problem is I got it for my HR20-700 which will not recognize it and
I really don't need it on the HR22-100


----------



## Rich

waxings said:


> I am extremely confused. I have a HR23 that I am getting this high pitched ringing from. It has been replaced 2 times with the same result. I am thinking that it is the drive that is making the noise. I want to get an external drive but I am confused on what one will work. Can anyone help me with all this information?
> 
> The ringing is driving me MAD!:hair:
> 
> Thanks!


You've had three 23s and they all have a ringing noise? Is that correct? Need more info. If this isn't a joke, and I trust no one would be that cruel, that's really interesting. What could possibly cause a ringing noise in any HR? If you have had the same issue with three HRs, it's probably not the fault of the 23s. There's nothing in the HRs that would do that. A buzz, a seeking noise from the drive, a transformer going south, stuff like that, but a ringing noise?

Need more info.

Rich


----------



## Rich

bhanks said:


> My HR22-100 works fine with the 1TB My Book Home Edition eSATA model-number 10000H1CS.
> 
> Only problem is I got it for my HR20-700 which will not recognize it and
> I really don't need it on the HR22-100


When we were working on the eSATA FAQs thread neither *Russdog* or I had anything but 20s and the My Books would not work on them. I called WD and asked them why, and they told me that the My Books were made in such a manner that they would not work with ANY DVRs. We took them at their word and included that in the thread. Now we know that they do work with the 21s, but nobody will edit that thread, which is loaded with info that is not up to date.

Taught me one lesson. Don't trust WD tech help.

Rich


----------



## Wyoming1

First time posting, so hope that I am in the right area for this question. If not I please direct to correct thread.

I have had a Free Agent XTreme attached to my hr20-100 since 5/18 and it has worked fine until the last couple of days. It has now started to freeze for a few seconds and then continue, or the sound disappears for a few seconds followed by a short freeze. It almost always starts going again, but have had a couple of times where it has froze up to the point where I have had to re-boot the receiver. 

My attempts to remedy have been to unplug both receiver and e-sata, fm power, restart e-sata and then receiver. This has not helped the situation. Any help anyone could give me would be greatly appreciated. A call to Seagate and they will not even talk to me without paying since I am beyond the 30 day period.


----------



## Rich

Wyoming1 said:


> First time posting, so hope that I am in the right area for this question. If not I please direct to correct thread.
> 
> I have had a Free Agent XTreme attached to my hr20-100 since 5/18 and it has worked fine until the last couple of days. It has now started to freeze for a few seconds and then continue, or the sound disappears for a few seconds followed by a short freeze. It almost always starts going again, but have had a couple of times where it has froze up to the point where I have had to re-boot the receiver.
> 
> My attempts to remedy have been to unplug both receiver and e-sata, fm power, restart e-sata and then receiver. This has not helped the situation. Any help anyone could give me would be greatly appreciated. A call to Seagate and they will not even talk to me without paying since I am beyond the 30 day period.


I've never been able to get an eSATA to work with a 100. Try a 20-700, I have two Xtremes on two of them and they both work perfectly. You can buy a 20-700 on eBay.

Rich


----------



## TigerDriver

Here's a link  to another esata drive/enclosure to add to the compatibilty list.

The bundle is a 1TB eSATA Seagate 7200.11 HDD and an Ultra eSTAT/USB enclosure. I paid $137, including shipping.

I had the HDD into the case, buttoned up, and ready to go in about 10 minutes minutes (five of which were hacking my way through the cryptonite plastic packing the drive). Then I:


Unplugged off my HR20-700
Plugged in the Seagate via the eSATA cable provided with the enclosure
Plugged in the power brick to the enclosure and hit the ON switch
Waited a few seconds for the drive to come up to speed
Plugged in my HR20
Got the message from HR20 that it was formatting drive.
After formatting, the HR20 proceeded as with a normal reset.
I recorded the final 15 minutes of a random show; it showed up in the List.
I again power-cycled the HR20.
The reset was uneventful and unremarkable, and the show recorded in step 8 was still in the list.
 I'm now waiting for the Guide to populate so I can setup some auto-records.

The enclosure comes with everything you could possible want: both and eSTATA and a USB cable, a PC slot cover plate with an outward-facing eSATA jack an an inward-facing pigtail connector to run to your PC's on-board eSATA plug.

P.S.
TigerDirect is my new favorite computer store.

P.P.S.
*Followups:*

*Fan/HDD noise:*

_I keep my electronics in my garage, against a wall shared with my entertainment system. So I don't hear it at all. After I assembled the drive/case on my workbench, I briefly plugged it to make certain that both the fan and HDD were working. Not surprisingly, the fan noise masked the HDD noise--small fans must run faster than large ones for the same amount of cooling, so you'll have a noise problem with any of the fan-cooled externals.

So, if your equipment is external or enclosed, the noise should be negligible. If your equipment is in the same room with your TV and is not enclosed in a cabinet, then I'll guess that the noise would be excessive unless you leave the top off the enclosure *and *unplug the fan.

_


----------



## Rich

TigerDriver said:


> Here's a link  to another esata drive/enclosure to add to the compatibilty list.
> 
> The bundle is a 1TB eSATA Seagate 7200.11 HDD and an Ultra eSTAT/USB enclosure. I paid $137, including shipping.
> 
> I had the HDD into the case, buttoned up, and ready to go in about 10 minutes minutes (five of which were hacking my way through the cryptonite plastic packing the drive). Then I:
> 
> 
> Unplugged off my HR20-700
> Plugged in the Seagate via the eSATA cable provided with the enclosure
> Plugged in the power brick to the enclosure and hit the ON switch
> Waited a few seconds for the drive to come up to speed
> Plugged in my HR20
> Got the message from HR20 that it was formatting drive.
> After formatting, the HR20 proceeded as with a normal reset.
> I recorded the final 15 minutes of a random show; it showed up in the List.
> I again power-cycled the HR20.
> The reset was uneventful and unremarkable, and the show recorded in step 8 was still in the list.
> I'm now waiting for the Guide to populate so I can setup some auto-records.
> 
> The enclosure comes with everything you could possible want: both and eSTATA and a USB cable, a PC slot cover plate with an outward-facing eSATA jack an an inward-facing pigtail connector to run to your PC's on-board eSATA plug.
> 
> P.S.
> TigerDirect is my new favorite computer store.


Tiger used to put out a great catalog too.

Since you're the first member I've seen with one of these, would you let us know how it works from time to time. Loud fan, rattlesnake drives, freezeups and lockups, that sort of thing that you're probably not gonna see until you get some recordings on it.

Now I gotta go look at the Tiger sight. Thanx.

Rich


----------



## TigerDriver

rich584 said:


> Tiger used to put out a great catalog too.
> 
> Since you're the first member I've seen with one of these, would you let us know how it works from time to time. Loud fan, rattlesnake drives, freezeups and lockups, that sort of thing that you're probably not gonna see until you get some recordings on it.
> 
> Now I gotta go look at the Tiger sight. Thanx.
> 
> Rich


Instead of putting follow-ups in new posts, I've added a follow-up section to my original post, thereby keeping all the info in one place.

There's already one question about noise.


----------



## Doug Brott

TigerDriver said:


> Here's a link  to another esata drive/enclosure to add to the compatibilty list.


A 'TigerDriver' recommended HDD is not the same thing as a 'DIRECTV' recommended HDD. All drives are not created equal and there are very specific reasons why DIRECTV recommends the ones they do. They are not randomly chosen HDDs. Anything else .. regardless of success rate .. does not fall into the same category.


----------



## Rich

TigerDriver said:


> *Fan/HDD noise:*
> 
> _I keep my electronics in my garage, against a wall shared with my entertainment system. So I don't hear it at all. After I assembled the drive/case on my workbench, I briefly plugged it to make certain that both the fan and HDD were working. Not surprisingly, the fan noise masked the HDD noise--small fans must run faster than large ones for the same amount of cooling, so you'll have a noise problem with any of the fan-cooled externals.
> 
> So, if your equipment is external or enclosed, the noise should be negligible. If your equipment is in the same room with your TV and is not enclosed in a cabinet, then I'll guess that the noise would be excessive unless you leave the top off the enclosure *and *unplug the fan.
> 
> _


Agreed. I've got my eSATAs in a big room, what would be a living room and a dining room, with a 12 foot ceiling and just have the jumper cable wires going thru the wall. That whooshing sound gets swallowed up by that big room, thankfully, and in the adjoining room, the eSATAs can't be heard at all. None of my eSATAs make any hard drive noises, but I've got them all cushioned with rubber insulation cut to fit the bottoms. I did try two of them in the same room as the TV and HRs, but it was too noisy.

Rich


----------



## TigerDriver

Doug Brott said:


> A 'TigerDriver' recommended HDD is not the same thing as a 'DIRECTV' recommended HDD. All drives are not created equal and there are very specific reasons why DIRECTV recommends the ones they do. They are not randomly chosen HDDs. Anything else .. regardless of success rate .. does not fall into the same category.


Doug,

Sorry, I accidentally posted this in the wrong thread. I've posted it in the Working eSATA Setups thread. So, feel free to delete this post.


----------



## newsposter

I read a 1 yr old post where people were saying if you disconnect the external and then later connect it, it wipes the external clean? So is this still the case today? Because while i am tempted to buy one now, realistically it would take me weeks to empty off the internal drive and id have to be rebooting a lot to switch back and forth.


----------



## CCarncross

newsposter said:


> I read a 1 yr old post where people were saying if you disconnect the external and then later connect it, it wipes the external clean? So is this still the case today? Because while i am tempted to buy one now, realistically it would take me weeks to empty off the internal drive and id have to be rebooting a lot to switch back and forth.


TO the best of my knowledge this has never been the normal way it worked. I've been running eSATA on my HR20 for over 2 years and if I restart the receiver and disconnect the eSATA drive it boots up and gives me all my recordings on the internal drive, if I restart again and reconnect the eSATA it gives me all the recordings on the external drive. In my case it has never reformatted the external during this process. I wouldn't put much faith in a 1 year old post either.


----------



## newsposter

ok glad to know it was an aberration. So what is the real life # of mpeg4 HD hours on a 1tb? The OP says up to 200 and one site I checked out advertises their 1tb upgrade as 145 hours.


----------



## Doug Brott

newsposter said:


> ok glad to know it was an aberration. So what is the real life # of mpeg4 HD hours on a 1tb? The OP says up to 200 and one site I checked out advertises their 1tb upgrade as 145 hours.


The rule of thumb has been

300GB == ~50 hrs
500GB == ~100 hrs

(~100GB are reserved for use by DIRECTV)

So 50 hrs/200GB .. Add another 500GB .. It's probably ~225 hrs, but since round numbers tend to make more sense, think of it as:

1TB == ~200 hrs of MPEG4 HD.

MPEG2 HD (mostly OTA) and MPEG2 SD will affect the hours of storage time of course as the compression schemes are different.


----------



## newsposter

thx for the info, makes more sense now.

If anyone is interested, newegg has 10 bucks maximum off drives this weekend code HDDSALE15

I'm still on the fence but it's a bit of incentive nonetheless  If i do it i'm definitely using the 'official' drives and not taking any chances thought. But they are $$$.

I do record a few shows mpeg2 SD. I always assumed that used the least amt of space...true? On my hdtivo i knew it was about 8 SD hours to 1 HD hour


----------



## Movieman

I just purchased a new Toshiba laptop and as I was setting it up I noticed on the side that it had this eSata connection. I have the HR23-700. Someone else posted on this thread but I didnt see a direct answer. My toshiba has 250HDD. My question is if I connect my laptop through this eSata connection can i (1) play back this content from my laptop when im not connected to the STB (2) this laptop came with DVDRW, can I backup on to disk the content that I record. Only for backup purposes. 

Sorry if this was answered but I read each post and didnt really see it. Thanks again.


----------



## Drew2k

Movieman said:


> I just purchased a new Toshiba laptop and as I was setting it up I noticed on the side that it had this eSata connection. I have the HR23-700. Someone else posted on this thread but I didnt see a direct answer. My toshiba has 250HDD. My question is if I connect my laptop through this eSata connection can i (1) play back this content from my laptop when im not connected to the STB (2) this laptop came with DVDRW, can I backup on to disk the content that I record. Only for backup purposes.
> 
> Sorry if this was answered but I read each post and didnt really see it. Thanks again.


The eSATA port on your laptop is only there to let you add an eSATA drive to the laptop, it won't let you use the hard drive in the laptop as a recording device for the DVR. You can connect an eSATA drive directly to the DVR and then try plugging that same eSATA drive into the laptop eSATA port, but you will not be able to play content from the drive.

If you do want to watch your recordings on your laptop, though, you should check out DIRECTV2PC - it's software that lets you watch content from your networked DVR. There's a thread on this in the DIRECTV Extras forum, I believe...

EDIT: Here it is: DIRECTV2PC v5514 - Issues & Discussion


----------



## Movieman

Thanks Drew. Tried that Directv2PC route already and wont work until support for Windows 7 and dual monitors start. Thanks for your post though. Save me a lot of trouble.


----------



## Knyall

I just purchased a Seagate WS 110 1TB external drive. I've been trying for the past serveral days to attach it to my Direct TV HD DVR, with no luck. When I go to menu, my play list it still shows 64% available space which is what showed prior to connecting the drive. I followed you instructions. Do I need to format this drive before connecting.


----------



## Blurayfan

Knyall said:


> I just purchased a Seagate WS 110 1TB external drive. I've been trying for the past serveral days to attach it to my Direct TV HD DVR, with no luck. When I go to menu, my play list it still shows 64% available space which is what showed prior to connecting the drive. I followed you instructions. Do I need to format this drive before connecting.


The DVR formats the drive the first time it was booted with the new drive installed. It seems your DVR is not detecting the eSATA drive.


----------



## Knyall

in my efforts to get the device working I also attached it to my laptop via a usb cable. At which point it booted up just fine. I can see the hard drive and it show 980+ MB. What format does the DVR recognize. FAT32 or NFS? I'm trying to determine if this external drive will work or do I need to take it back before my 14 return policy runs out.
Getting desparate :-(


----------



## Knyall

Doug,

Check out my message on page five and let me know if you have any suggestions. I'm a first time user of this site so, I'm not sure how questions are posted.


----------



## harsh

I'd say you're not connecting the drive correctly. Whether the cable is bad (all too common), the computer interface is bad or you bought a USB drive, there would seem to be something wrong with what you've done. Then again, it is possible that the eSATA port on the receiver is bad.

What is the step-by-step procedure you're using to enable the drive (starting with pulling the power plugs on _everything_).


----------



## IndioinHD

So if the external drive only works with the original HR what if the dvr dies? Any way to extract shows or view using another source?


----------



## harsh

IndioinHD said:


> Any way to extract shows or view using another source?


No.


----------



## Doug Brott

Movieman said:


> Thanks Drew. Tried that Directv2PC route already and wont work until support for Windows 7 and dual monitors start. Thanks for your post though. Save me a lot of trouble.


Perhaps you missed the notes from July 28 .. Those features are already there.


----------



## Doug Brott

Knyall said:


> I just purchased a Seagate WS 110 1TB external drive. I've been trying for the past serveral days to attach it to my Direct TV HD DVR, with no luck. When I go to menu, my play list it still shows 64% available space which is what showed prior to connecting the drive. I followed you instructions. Do I need to format this drive before connecting.


I don't believe this is one of the drives that DIRECTV recommends. Any other selection will simply fall into the category of hit or miss. The drives on the recommended list are there for a reason and are not randomly chosen devices.


----------



## Doug Brott

harsh said:


> I'd say you're not connecting the drive correctly. Whether the cable is bad (all too common), the computer interface is bad or you bought a USB drive, there would seem to be something wrong with what you've done. Then again, it is possible that the eSATA port on the receiver is bad.
> 
> What is the step-by-step procedure you're using to enable the drive (starting with pulling the power plugs on _everything_).


It's entirely possible that everything is being connected correctly and the drive functions the way it is supposed to .. AND .. that it still fails to work properly with the HR2x platform.


----------



## Doug Brott

IndioinHD said:


> So if the external drive only works with the original HR what if the dvr dies? Any way to extract shows or view using another source?


Nope .. This is just the way it is, and why you should never consider your HR2x as a permanent storage solution. There is always the possibility of catastrophic failure, and the more hours of programming you keep, the more you may lose. Fortunately, this failure rate is low, but it does happen.


----------



## IndioinHD

Doug Brott said:


> Nope .. This is just the way it is, and why you should never consider your HR2x as a permanent storage solution. There is always the possibility of catastrophic failure, and the more hours of programming you keep, the more you may lose. Fortunately, this failure rate is low, but it does happen.


Just to be clear I'm talking about the external drive being reused if the dvr it's married to dies, do you lose both? Sorry for the confusion.


----------



## Doug Brott

IndioinHD said:


> Just to be clear I'm talking about the external drive being reused if the dvr it's married to dies, do you lose both? Sorry for the confusion.


The external drive can be reused, of course, but the programming will be lost, yes.


----------



## IndioinHD

Doug Brott said:


> The external drive can be reused, of course, but the programming will be lost, yes.


What do you use as a permanent storage solution, if there is one.


----------



## Movieman

Doug Brott said:


> Perhaps you missed the notes from July 28 .. Those features are already there.


Thanks for pointing that out. I sent off for the key. Thanks for the help.


----------



## Bambler

I just wanted to add my comments concerning their recommended list:

I have the HR22-100 and I initially tried the recommended 1 TB Seagate drive. It worked for about a week, then started stuttering or visually glitching (hard to describe). Reboots, utility checks (all of which checked out fine) didn't fix the problem as it would start to stutter again after a few days.

It could have simply been a bad drive (or worse, the HR22-100 just doesn't work very well with the Seagate), either way I decided to try a different one.

Next up, the recommended 1 TB Western Digital. So far, so good. Everything is working fine.

You can see my experiences in the Stuttering Playback thread here, lots of helpful people there.


----------



## harsh

IndioinHD said:


> What do you use as a permanent storage solution, if there is one.


There is no archiving solution that involves DIRECTV DVRs.


----------



## Rich

IndioinHD said:


> What do you use as a permanent storage solution, if there is one.


I go to Amazon and buy a box set of DVDs for season series. Better PQ, better sound. With a good BD player a standard DVD is upscaled to 1080/60p and is noticeably better than 1080i. Be foolish to trust an HR to last long enough to archive programming, altho, my HRs and eSATAs are so trouble free that I'm beginning to wonder about the whole archiving thing. Perhaps in a couple years...

Rich


----------



## Doug Brott

Bambler said:


> I just wanted to add my comments concerning their recommended list:
> 
> I have the HR22-100 and I initially tried the recommended 1 TB Seagate drive. It worked for about a week, then started stuttering or visually glitching (hard to describe). Reboots, utility checks (all of which checked out fine) didn't fix the problem as it would start to stutter again after a few days.
> 
> It could have simply been a bad drive (or worse, the HR22-100 just doesn't work very well with the Seagate), either way I decided to try a different one.
> 
> Next up, the recommended 1 TB Western Digital. So far, so good. Everything is working fine.
> 
> You can see my experiences in the Stuttering Playback thread here, lots of helpful people there.


It was likely a bad HDD .. Being that these devices are mechanical, it happens unfortunately.


----------



## IndioinHD

My Seagate eSATA 1TB external came today but D* shipped the dvr without b band converters, hopefully I can find some laying around here...............


----------



## susanandmark

Anyone tried the Seagate Showcase drive (http://www.seagate.com/www/en-us/products/home_entertainment/showcase)? Any benefit to getting it, since it's about $80 more than a comparable brand X eSATA 1TB drive?

I ask because it looks like my current external eSATA drive is dying (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=163832).


----------



## Doug Brott

susanandmark said:


> Anyone tried the Seagate Showcase drive (http://www.seagate.com/www/en-us/products/home_entertainment/showcase)? Any benefit to getting it, since it's about $80 more than a comparable brand X eSATA 1TB drive?
> 
> I ask because it looks like my current external eSATA drive is dying (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=163832).


All I can tell you is that the drives recommended by DIRECTV were not randomly chosen. If you look at the specs you'll notice both the Seagate and WD recommendations mention DVRs .. that's gotta mean something. Brand X is probably geared for computer use rather than DVR use.


----------



## CCarncross

susanandmark said:


> Anyone tried the Seagate Showcase drive (http://www.seagate.com/www/en-us/products/home_entertainment/showcase)? Any benefit to getting it, since it's about $80 more than a comparable brand X eSATA 1TB drive?
> 
> I ask because it looks like my current external eSATA drive is dying (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=163832).


Best bet is to either stick with one of the specifically recommended recommended models at the beginning of this thread, or go the ANTEC MX-1 route with a suitable WD or Seagate drive installed in it.


----------



## nuspieds

CCarncross said:


> My Books are not supported...the WD solution is called the my dvr extender. its so much less hassle to order a bare bones WD 1-2TB green drive, and put it in an ANTEC MX-1. this combo works with all current HR2x models....


I purchased a 2TB My Book and was getting ready to install it the following day. Thankfully, I kept on reading the messages in this thread and stumbled upon yours! 

I never even opened up the box, so I promptly returned it the next day in exchange for the Antec MX-1 and the 2TB WD Caviar Green.

I am now a very happy camper with 2TBs of storage for my HR20-700!! :joy:

Thanks for not only pointing me in the right direction, but also for helping me avoid some misery (had I tried the My Book)!


----------



## Rich

nuspieds said:


> I purchased a 2TB My Book and was getting ready to install it the following day. Thankfully, I kept on reading the messages in this thread and stumbled upon yours!
> 
> I never even opened up the box, so I promptly returned it the next day in exchange for the Antec MX-1 and the 2TB WD Caviar Green.
> 
> I am now a very happy camper with 2TBs of storage for my HR20-700!! :joy:
> 
> Thanks for not only pointing me in the right direction, but also for helping me avoid some misery (had I tried the My Book)!


Yup. Would have never worked on the 20-700. That includes the whole My Book series.

Rich


----------



## IndioinHD

Finally got my Seagate 1TB up and running along side the HR20-700, so far so good.


----------



## ke5ckp

I have a hr21-700 and I would like to add a 1tb hd to the unit I bought a wd mybook model wd1000his-00. This is a eSATA unit. I unpluged the dtv and turned on the hd and let get up to speed. then turned the dtv on. It saw the hard drive but would not load. Is there any thing that I can do???


----------



## Rich

ke5ckp said:


> I have a hr21-700 and I would like to add a 1tb hd to the unit I bought a wd mybook model wd1000his-00. This is a eSATA unit. I unpluged the dtv and turned on the hd and let get up to speed. then turned the dtv on. It saw the hard drive but would not load. Is there any thing that I can do???


You did have the eSATA to eSATA jumper cable connected before you powered up the eSATA, right?

The 21-700s are kind of finicky about eSATAs. Some members have reported that the My Book works with their 21-700s.

If all you care about is a 1TB eSATA, I'd suggest the recommended WD eSATA. There's a couple eSATA threads running. The other one has information about other eSATAs that work.

Rich


----------



## ke5ckp

Yes I have a eSATA cable connected to he DTV and WD


----------



## ke5ckp

Is there anything special you have to do the the Mybook to make them work??
Rick


----------



## harsh

ke5ckp said:


> Is there anything special you have to do the the Mybook to make them work??


In most cases the solution is to replace it with a known compatible model.

From Western Digital, the recommended model is the My DVR Expander.


----------



## Doug Brott

ke5ckp said:


> Is there anything special you have to do the the Mybook to make them work??
> Rick


The MyBook is not one of the drives that works. You need to replace it with something else, preferably one of the ones that is on DIRECTV's recommended list.


----------



## harsh

I could have sworn I said that.


----------



## Steveknj

OK, I bought a Phantom 1TB drive and it seems to work fine with my HR21-100. But i have a question. I am not sure if this is related to using the external drive or if this is related to the new update, but I have horrible lag time. I push remote buttons and nothing happens, it takes a moment to go from screen to screen. Trick play seems to work ok when I push those buttons.


----------



## tcusta00

harsh said:


> I could have sworn I said that.


Call me crazy (and why you don't understand this by now I'll never know) but I think it means more coming from a DirecTV Forums Moderator than a Dish subscriber. :shrug:


----------



## smiddy

tcusta00 said:


> Call me crazy (and why you don't understand this by now I'll never know) but I think it means more coming from a DirecTV Forums Moderator than a Dish subscriber. :shrug:


harsh is a DiSH spy, didn't you know that? :lol:


----------



## Rich

ke5ckp said:


> Is there anything special you have to do the the Mybook to make them work??
> Rick


No, if it was gonna work, it would have according to what you have posted. All eSATAs use the same short procedure for activation. Unplug both the eSATA and the HR, plug in the jumper cable to both, then plug in the eSATA and then plug in the HR. Simple. If you followed that procedure and the My Book doesn't work, return it.

Rich


----------



## ljg1118

I have an HR20-100 is there a place in the menu that shows details of the additional hard drive space when a working E-Sara drive is connected?


----------



## Drew2k

ljg1118 said:


> I have an HR20-100 is there a place in the menu that shows details of the additional hard drive space when a working E-Sara drive is connected?


No. The Playlist shows the free space as a a percentage of the user's recording area on the drive, but the only way you could compare is to do it "before and after". For example, start with an empty playlist and record 5 hours from channel 202 on the internal drive. Look at the free space. Let's say it's 90%. Then plug in a new larger eSATA drive and look at your playlist. It's empty, so record 5 hours on channel 202 and look at the free space now. Let's say it's 95%. That's about all you'll be able to see in terms of capacity ...


----------



## harsh

ljg1118 said:


> I have an HR20-100 is there a place in the menu that shows details of the additional hard drive space when a working E-Sara drive is connected?


Note that an external drive doesn't add "additional hard drive space" -- it completely replaces the internal storage.


----------



## ljg1118

Hi, yes I am aware the e-sata replaces the internal drive.

This is my problem I have had the Seagate Freeagent Pro installed for over a year and all of a sudden my HR20-100 will not recognize it, the Seagate spins, lights up but the hr20-100 is seeing the internal drive only. I have unplugged the HR20, unplugged the free agent, plugged the free agent sata connection, powered up the free agent and then powered up the HR20, and nothing...

Any way to easily test the Freeagent?


----------



## Doug Brott

ljg1118 said:


> Hi, yes I am aware the e-sata replaces the internal drive.
> 
> This is my problem I have had the Seagate Freeagent Pro installed for over a year and all of a sudden my HR20-100 will not recognize it, the Seagate spins, lights up but the hr20-100 is seeing the internal drive only. I have unplugged the HR20, unplugged the free agent, plugged the free agent sata connection, powered up the free agent and then powered up the HR20, and nothing...
> 
> Any way to easily test the Freeagent?


The best you can do is try it out on a PC to see if it can even be recognized. However, I'm guessing things will likely turn out in the negative on this one.


----------



## ljg1118

Meaning the Freeagent HD is the culprit?


----------



## Doug Brott

ljg1118 said:


> Meaning the Freeagent HD is the culprit?


That would be my guess based on the limited information that I have, yes.


----------



## Rich

ljg1118 said:


> Hi, yes I am aware the e-sata replaces the internal drive.
> 
> This is my problem I have had the Seagate Freeagent Pro installed for over a year and all of a sudden my HR20-100 will not recognize it, the Seagate spins, lights up but the hr20-100 is seeing the internal drive only. I have unplugged the HR20, unplugged the free agent, plugged the free agent sata connection, powered up the free agent and then powered up the HR20, and nothing...
> 
> Any way to easily test the Freeagent?


Put it on a 20-700.

Rich


----------



## ljg1118

Rich:

Will the drive show up anywhere in the menu of a 20-700?


----------



## Rich

ljg1118 said:


> Rich:
> 
> Will the drive show up anywhere in the menu of a 20-700?


Assuming you mean the HDD model number, no. There is no means of viewing the capacity of the HDD in use by the HR except for the "Available" meter at the bottom of the Playlist. At least that I know of.

Rich


----------



## ljg1118

No actually I was reffering to the HD capacity showing up in the menu...


----------



## Rich

ljg1118 said:


> No actually I was reffering to the HD capacity showing up in the menu...


No.

Rich


----------



## CCarncross

ljg1118 said:


> No actually I was reffering to the HD capacity showing up in the menu...


none of the current receivers show how large the HD is, they only show aprox free space available for recordings...I don't even remember if the Tivo's showed that info if they were running the stock software...


----------



## Rich

CCarncross said:


> none of the current receivers show how large the HD is, they only show aprox free space available for recordings...I don't even remember if the Tivo's showed that info if they were running the stock software...


TiVos showed the total capacity of the HDD, but I don't remember anything like the meter that the HRs have. Personally, I'd rather have the meter.

Rich


----------



## nuspieds

rich584 said:


> Personally, I'd rather have the meter.Rich


Me, too! What I really like is that it includes the utilization for recordings marked as "Keep Until I Delete." Definitely very informative.

Like what was suggested, I did the same thing when I hooked up my WD 2TB drive: After several recordings, especially HD, I definitely saw the difference in the meter.


----------



## jchester

Hey all, long time lurker, first time poster....

I found a lot of useful info about esata external drive upgrades on this site, thanks. Thought I'd share my experience, I have an HR-21/200 and I bought a 2TB Seagate ST320005N4A1AS-RK and put it in an Antec MX-1 enclosure. The first time booting it wasn't recognized but the second time it worked. It's been a week, no problems at all. 

I picked up the drive at Fry's on sale for $179 and the Antec box for $49.


----------



## susanandmark

nuspieds said:


> I promptly returned it the next day in exchange for the Antec MX-1 and the 2TB WD Caviar Green.
> 
> I am now a very happy camper with 2TBs of storage for my HR20-700!! :joy!


Is this still working for you? I have the same set-up the only difference is that my 2 TB WD Caviar is the "black" version, which I thought was supposed to be better for video.

It worked OK for about a week but now I'm having audio dropouts (like really bad, unwatchable stuttering just in the soundtrack) and picture freezes/jumps.

I love the idea of having this much storage but does this set-up actually work with the HR20-700?


----------



## nuspieds

susanandmark said:


> Is this still working for you?...I love the idea of having this much storage but does this set-up actually work with the HR20-700?


Yes it is...I have had absolutely ZERO issues.

Perhaps there is something wrong with that drive. Is it possible for you to take it back and exchange it (for another black)?


----------



## susanandmark

nuspieds said:


> Is it possible for you to take it back and exchange it (for another black)?


Yes, I just wanted to double check it wasn't because I was using the "black" versus the "green" version before I did that. I had the green in my hand, but the black said better for video and was only $25 more so I went with it. Maybe a bad idea?


----------



## susanandmark

rich584 said:


> There's a problem with the Black Caviars for some reason. Not the first post that I've read about this and I've read a few reviews that reported the same problems. Take it back and get the Green Caviar with "eads" in the model number.
> 
> That HDD should give you no problems.
> 
> Rich


Thanks I was afraid of that! That's what I get for "upgrading" and not listening to exact expert advice in the first place, eh? I think I might be stuck with the black too since it's open and I think they will only do even exchange. (I'll try though.)


----------



## Doug Brott

susanandmark said:


> Thanks I was afraid of that! That's what I get for "upgrading" and not listening to exact expert advice in the first place, eh? I think I might be stuck with the black too since it's open and I think they will only do even exchange. (I'll try though.)


I know folks don't want to hear this, but the ones that DIRECTV recommend are really the right eSATAs. Anything else is simply hit or miss. The recommendations were selected for a reason and that should not be overlooked.


----------



## susanandmark

Doug Brott said:


> I know folks don't want to hear this, but the ones that DIRECTV recommend are really the right eSATAs. Anything else is simply hit or miss. The recommendations were selected for a reason and that should not be overlooked.


So you think the green model won't work right either?


----------



## nuspieds

susanandmark said:


> So you think the green model won't work right either?


I have a green and it _does_ work.

My configuration was based on the following member's specific experiences:



CCarncross said:


> My Books are not supported...the WD solution is called the my dvr extender. its so much less hassle to order a bare bones WD 1-2TB green drive, and put it in an ANTEC MX-1. this combo works with all current HR2x models....


I already had good experiences with WD green drives, so that wasn't an issue. But when I got to Fry's, I saw all sorts of other enclosures. However, I was not in the mood for trial-and-error (even though I figured that the enclosure shouldn't matter), so I stuck with the exact recommendations and got the MX-1.

The end result was a quick and first-time successful installation.


----------



## imfletcher

Villager said:


> I reported in another thread-- not sure which one-- that I have a Seagate Baracuda 1.5 TB mounted in the Antec MX-1 which does record when connected to the HR21/100 BUT on almost every reboot the external drive (the eSATA drive) is reformatted on the bootup which renders it useless. Just to doublecheck on this, I reinstalled it last night and it recorded the programming that I wanted, and tonight I watched the programming. All was well until I forced a reboot on the system and the eSATA drive was once again reformatted erasing all the settings and programming.
> ?


I have a WD MyBook TiVo Expander edition that i used with my TiVoHD for at least a year with no issues. I swapped out its WD Green 500gb drive for the same Seagate Baracuda 1.5TB drive, and hooked it up to my new HR22-100. I am also seeing the erasing issue. crazy annoying, it took forever to get all my season passes in and now its all gone. appears it will always be wiped. yay


----------



## Rich

imfletcher said:


> I have a WD MyBook TiVo Expander edition that i used with my TiVoHD for at least a year with no issues. I swapped out its WD Green 500gb drive for the same Seagate Baracuda 1.5TB drive, and hooked it up to my new HR22-100. I am also seeing the erasing issue. crazy annoying, it took forever to get all my season passes in and now its all gone. appears it will always be wiped. yay


Seagate and 21s don't get along well. The 21s include the 22s, and 23s.

Rich


----------



## imfletcher

Hmph.. i got through a few restarts without erasing it. still, hard to trust it. i think i'll go sans external rather than gather a bunch of stuff only to randomly lose it


----------



## Rich

imfletcher said:


> Hmph.. i got through a few restarts without erasing it. still, hard to trust it. i think i'll go sans external rather than gather a bunch of stuff only to randomly lose it


Or you could try a WD HDD. They work with the 22s.

Rich


----------



## Doug Brott

Folks .. I'd like to remind everyone that this thread is started to point out the 4 different eSATAs that DIRECTV recommends which are:


Western Digital 500GB (model WDG1S5000)
Seagate 500GB (model ST30500SCA109-RK)
Western Digital 1TB (model WDG1S10000)
Seagate 1TB (model ST31000SCA109-RK)
Anything other than those 4 models are not only untested, they are don't include the "special sauce" that helps keep the drive more reliable. If you choose to go with a different model, _caveat emptor_. The four drives on this list were not randomly selected. They are recommended for a reason.


----------



## imfletcher

Doug Brott said:


> Anything other than those 4 models are not only untested, they are don't include the "special sauce" that helps keep the drive more reliable. If you choose to go with a different model, _caveat emptor_. The four drives on this list were not randomly selected. They are recommended for a reason.


fair enough, can't argue with that  how often do you suppose new drives will be added to the safe list (i.e. 1.5 and 2TB drives)?


----------



## harsh

imfletcher said:


> fair enough, can't argue with that  how often do you suppose new drives will be added to the safe list (i.e. 1.5 and 2TB drives)?


The eSATA feature has been enabled for just under three years and the first "official" list came out about two and a half months ago.

Please understand that eSATA remains a "not officially supported by DIRECTV" feature.


----------



## susanandmark

nuspieds said:


> I have a green and it _does_ work.
> 
> My configuration was based on the following member's specific experiences:
> 
> I already had good experiences with WD green drives, so that wasn't an issue. But when I got to Fry's, I saw all sorts of other enclosures. However, I was not in the mood for trial-and-error (even though I figured that the enclosure shouldn't matter), so I stuck with the exact recommendations and got the MX-1.
> 
> The end result was a quick and first-time successful installation.


I traded the 2TB WD black for 2TB WD green and, so far, it's working for me. Fingers crossed that it stays that way. I previously used a 750 GB Seagate Freeagent Pro (not on the list) for a bit more than two years before it failed on this HR20-700. I'm using a 1TB version on another HR20-700 with no issues and, finally, an Accomdata (sp?) 1 TB eSATA external on another. Both have been in use for about a year at this point; again with no problems. It seems pretty hit or miss. (For instance, I started with the same brand/model of 750GB drives on all three and I replaced one, three different times in the first year or so, while the other two, on different units, lasted and lasted with zero problems.)

With this replacement, I've replaced all my external hard drives (three units have them) at least once now, at one point or another, which is a PITA, but better than the old TiVo way of taking the unit apart to replace the internal drive (which had to be specifically formatted) or, in some cases, the entire unit. Yikes!

I LOVE the 2TB of storage. I've downloaded 2 full seasons worth of Dexter and a full season of Weeds IN HD, plus some other HD recordings, and it's only taking up 2 percent of my hard drive. As someone notorious for leaving things on the DVR for a year before I get around to watching it, with things often just going away before I get to them, all that storage is nice.

Now, if only we could get rid of that pesky 50-season-pass limit ...

My son is growing up in a world where he has no idea what channel, or when, anything is on. What he wants to watch is just always available, any time. This is a problem when we're in, say, a hotel. I dare you to try and explain the DVR concept to a 2-1/2 year old who just wants to watch his daily dose of Curious George the instant he wakes up, like he does every other morning.


----------



## Rich

harsh said:


> The eSATA feature has been enabled for just under three years and the first "official" list came out about two and a half months ago.
> 
> Please understand that eSATA remains a "not officially supported by DIRECTV" feature.


That's "official" according to D*, not Seagate. They don't recommend any hard drives or enclosures for DVRs. I've talked to them several times and they're always interested in the DVR market, but they still refuse to recommend any HDDs or eSATAs for DVRs. Is it really possible that D* knows more about HDDs than Seagate?

Rich


----------



## Doug Brott

rich584 said:


> That's "official" according to D*, not Seagate. They don't recommend any hard drives or enclosures for DVRs. I've talked to them several times and they're always interested in the DVR market, but they still refuse to recommend any HDDs or eSATAs for DVRs. Is it really possible that D* knows more about HDDs than Seagate?
> 
> Rich


The list is a recommendation for a feature that is technically unsupported .. "official" in any capacity can be debated, but care is taken to make it so the supported drives are on the "safe list" (that's a good name, imfletcher)


----------



## Doug Brott

imfletcher said:


> fair enough, can't argue with that  how often do you suppose new drives will be added to the safe list (i.e. 1.5 and 2TB drives)?


I do not know the answer to this question.


----------



## nuspieds

susanandmark said:


> I traded the 2TB WD black for 2TB WD green and, so far, it's working for me...I LOVE the 2TB of storage. I've downloaded 2 full seasons worth of Dexter and a full season of Weeds IN HD, plus some other HD recordings, and it's only taking up 2 percent of my hard drive. As someone notorious for leaving things on the DVR for a year before I get around to watching it, with things often just going away before I get to them, all that storage is nice.


Congrats! :hurah:

For me, 1TB was only an option if 2TB wouldn't work. Right from the start I knew I needed 2TB.

In my case, I am sometimes away from home for about a month. Before I got the 2TB, when I would return home for the weekend, the internal hard drive would be somewhere around 97% full! I would then have to scramble to review the recorded shows and do a delete to clean up.

But now that I have the 2TB, I think the most I've seen used so far is 5%--and, as you stated, with lots of HD content!! No more mad rushes to do a clean up. Totally sweet!


----------



## Rich

imfletcher said:


> fair enough, can't argue with that  how often do you suppose new drives will be added to the safe list (i.e. 1.5 and 2TB drives)?


As soon as Seagate and WD decide to put them in the Showcase enclosures. Probably not selling enough of them now for them to believe that sticking a larger HDD in the enclosure will generate more sales. The HRs, especially the 20-700s, work quite well with 1.5 and 2TB HDDs.

Rich


----------



## gusmahler

susanandmark said:


> My son is growing up in a world where he has no idea what channel, or when, anything is on. What he wants to watch is just always available, any time. This is a problem when we're in, say, a hotel. I dare you to try and explain the DVR concept to a 2-1/2 year old who just wants to watch his daily dose of Curious George the instant he wakes up, like he does every other morning.


I know exactly what you're talking about. The first time we were watching TV without a DVR, my daughter asked me to fast forward it when we got to a commercial. She's gotten used to the past 6 months without a DVR, but we'll have a DVR up and running (with a 1 TB drive!) later this week.


----------



## jct9841

Hello all,

Just discovered this thread and am anxious to add a drive for more recording room and to silence the noisy internal drive.

Read this on Amazon: (anyone experience this?)

By R. Southern "R Southern" (Louisiana) - See all my reviews
I purchased the Seagate Showcase DVR Storage Expander model ST31000SCA109-RK as advertised on the Directv website. I hooked it up as per installation instructions to my Directv DVR Model HR22-100 and it disabled the internal hard drive so that all of the previous recordings on the internal hard drive were not accessible. Then I began to put new recordings from that point on the new seagate 1TB eSATA hard drive. Then every time Directv does a software update all of the recordings on the seagate harddrive are deleted. I contacted directv and they are absolutely no help at all in the matter of external hard drives. The personnel at directv would only state that they Do Not Support The CONNECTION OF AN EXTERNAL HARD DRIVE even though they advertize it on their website. Do not even waste your time contacting Directv. I tried to resolve the problem with Seagate and they stated that it is not a problem with the hard drive it is a problem with Directv.
I am completly disappointed in Directv as I have been a Directv customer since it started and now have a $200 hard drive that is useless. Do yourself a favor DO NOT HOOK UP AN EXTERNAL HARD DRIVE TO DIRECTV RECEIVERS!!!!!!!


----------



## CCarncross

Sorry to hear about your loss, I've been running an eSATA setup almost since day 1 of having my HR20(3 years next month), started with a 500GB WD in an Antec MX-1. moved to a 1TB about a year ago, and a 1.5 TB about 6 months ago, never have lost recordings due to the reboot when new software goes out. Personally I think you have a problematic Seagate drive because that shouldnt happen...But I refuse to use Seagate products exactly because of these types of posts, the FAP's, the Calvary's, the Extremes, no thanks, I'll stick with the WD and the Antec...


----------



## Rich

Here's a *link* that to a post that just popped up on the _Working eSATA Setups_ thread. Post #1039.

Rich


----------



## HGS

I bought the Western Digital My DVR from Amazon for $129 with free shipping. It uses the model WDG1S10000 1TB drive. I also bought a SIIG esata cable after reading of a few problems with the cable included with the drive. 

Installation on my HR20-700 was simple and the unit is totally silent (no fan) and unobtrusive.


----------



## jct9841

Went for the Seagate Showcase 500G (on sale at Seagate for $89 with shipping included). Installed with no problems. Very quiet compared to the HR20-700 and more recording room than I'll ever need.

JT


----------



## jct9841

Showcase 500G just too loud for bedroom (fan noise). I'm returning and going to try the WD.

Oh Well...


----------



## Bambler

I had major problems with the recommended Seagate drive and ended up buying the recommended WD drive and it has worked flawlessly and is roughly 50% full now.

My friend, who has the same DVR as myself (HR22) went out and purchased the same recommended Seagate drive against my recommendations (because he couldn't find the WD at a local store) and now he, too, is having problems.

I thought my problem was just a bad drive (unlucky), but after seeing him experience the exact same thing as me (works fine at first, then starts to stutter, freeze and losing all recordings after a few days), I'm pretty convinced that the recommended Seagate just doesn't work well with the HR22 (as others have mentioned), but the WD works fine.


----------



## Doug Brott

Bambler said:


> I had major problems with the recommended Seagate drive and ended up buying the recommended WD drive and it has worked flawlessly and is roughly 50% full now.
> 
> My friend, who has the same DVR as myself (HR22) went out and purchased the same recommended Seagate drive against my recommendations (because he couldn't find the WD at a local store) and now he, too, is having problems.
> 
> I thought my problem was just a bad drive (unlucky), but after seeing him experience the exact same thing as me (works fine at first, then starts to stutter, freeze and losing all recordings after a few days), I'm pretty convinced that the recommended Seagate just doesn't work well with the HR22 (as others have mentioned), but the WD works fine.


Thanks for the note .. I'll pass this information on to DIRECTV.


----------



## tc3400

Trying to get this external WD drive to work with my HR100-700. Plug and unplug power to the receiver multiple times and it will not sync up. Has anyone got this to work, its a 1 tb unit.


----------



## CCarncross

tc3400 said:


> Trying to get this external WD drive to work with my HR100-700. Plug and unplug power to the receiver multiple times and it will not sync up. Has anyone got this to work, its a 1 tb unit.


My Books do not work with the HR line of receivers. You have to buy the My DVR Expander version...

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=609

This has been pretty well documented here on this site, so I'm surprised you didnt run across it b4 buying that particular model.


----------



## dlambermont

I've been using a FAP 750GB drive with my HR20-700 pretty much since the day the functionality became available (almost 3 years). It has worked great, but I am now getting periodic audio dropouts, picture stuttering, artifacts... I'm guessing I'm at the end of the FAP's useful life.

I know there is no way to copy recordings to be viewed on a different D* box, but can I use some kind of disk copy utility to copy them to a drive to be viewed on the SAME box? Read through this entire thread, didn't see whether anyone had ever tried it.


----------



## Doug Brott

dlambermont said:


> I've been using a FAP 750GB drive with my HR20-700 pretty much since the day the functionality became available (almost 3 years). It has worked great, but I am now getting periodic audio dropouts, picture stuttering, artifacts... I'm guessing I'm at the end of the FAP's useful life.
> 
> I know there is no way to copy recordings to be viewed on a different D* box, but can I use some kind of disk copy utility to copy them to a drive to be viewed on the SAME box? Read through this entire thread, didn't see whether anyone had ever tried it.


There is a method to copy the programming somewhere .. I haven't tried it nor do I know off hand where the thread is located.

However, you may want to run the Built in Self-test (BIST) to try and repair your hard drive. To run the hard drive checks, please follow these steps:


reboot STB via Menu -> Parental, Fav's & Setup -> System Setup -> Reset -> Restart Receiver
when they see "Running receiver self-check" press select
You will see "Entering Diagnostics Mode..."
select Advanced Tests Menu -> Hard Drive utilities -> Surface Test
*Warning*: This process could take several hours to complete. You may want to run it overnight.

The good news is that every attempt is made to save programming. This is less destructive than a reformat all and could provide you with a more stable system if you are having problems that appear to be related to the hard drive.


----------



## CCarncross

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=148760

There is a thread devoted to just copying the contents form one drive to another, it doesnt matter whether it was the internal drive or an external drive, the method is the same, except for having to get the drive out of your DVR if its the internal drive.


----------



## dlambermont

Thanks! I'll give that a try, nothing to lose. In the meantime, if anyone can point me to the instructions for copying programming to a new drive, that would be great.


----------



## dlambermont

Ah - thanks! Pulled the trigger too soon on the last response...


----------



## tlopes

dlambermont said:


> I've been using a FAP 750GB drive with my HR20-700 pretty much since the day the functionality became available (almost 3 years). It has worked great, but I am now getting periodic audio dropouts, picture stuttering, artifacts... I'm guessing I'm at the end of the FAP's useful life.
> 
> I know there is no way to copy recordings to be viewed on a different D* box, but can I use some kind of disk copy utility to copy them to a drive to be viewed on the SAME box? Read through this entire thread, didn't see whether anyone had ever tried it.


I've also had an HR20-700 with Seagate FA Pro 750GB for years and it has worked reasonably well with occasional audio problems. About 4 months ago, I replaced it with an Antec MX-1 and Seagate 1.5TB internal. It also had occasional hiccups in the audio and video stutter, but it only happened once an hour or so and was similar to the FAP 750 in performance. Now with the more recent CE's I've tried, the audio/video stutter is almost unbearable. I ran the DTV diagnostics to scan the external disk and it PASSED. I then switched to the internal drive and everything is perfect, so my issue is isolated to the eSata path (interface, cable, enclosure, drive).

I'm thinking it's possible that DTV has pushed the limits of the box with software releases so much that it has a hard time working correctly from an external drive. It got especially bad after this latest national release 0x368. It now stutters the audio every few seconds to once a minute or so and it's unbearable to watch. When I replay the bad areas, half of the time it replays correctly and the other times it repeats the stutter. This indicates to me that the stutter happens when reading or writing to the disk. As expected, It never stutters when watching live TV.

I'm still testing to see if I should replace the Seagate 1.5, the eSata cable, the Antec enclosure, or realize that the newer software just doesn't work well via an eSata connected drive.

Any advice on this? Many thanks.


----------



## Rich

tlopes said:


> I've also had an HR20-700 with Seagate FA Pro 750GB for years and it has worked reasonably well with occasional audio problems. About 4 months ago, I replaced it with an Antec MX-1 and Seagate 1.5TB internal. It also had occasional hiccups in the audio and video stutter, but it only happened once an hour or so and was similar to the FAP 750 in performance. Now with the more recent CE's I've tried, the audio/video stutter is almost unbearable. I ran the DTV diagnostics to scan the external disk and it PASSED. I then switched to the internal drive and everything is perfect, so my issue is isolated to the eSata path (interface, cable, enclosure, drive).
> 
> I'm thinking it's possible that DTV has pushed the limits of the box with software releases so much that it has a hard time working correctly from an external drive. It got especially bad after this latest national release 0x368. It now stutters the audio every few seconds to once a minute or so and it's unbearable to watch. When I replay the bad areas, half of the time it replays correctly and the other times it repeats the stutter. This indicates to me that the stutter happens when reading or writing to the disk. As expected, It never stutters when watching live TV.
> 
> I'm still testing to see if I should replace the Seagate 1.5, the eSata cable, the Antec enclosure, or realize that the newer software just doesn't work well via an eSata connected drive.
> 
> Any advice on this? Many thanks.


All six of my 20-700s are running with Seagate 1.5 drives, three external, three internal (I own those three), I have two Xtremes and one Antec MX-1 for the externals. I had those issues you speak of after the DLB NR, but they cleared up and hopefully, the NR that downloaded last night will put an end to them completely.

Rich


----------



## tlopes

tlopes said:


> I'm still testing to see if I should replace the Seagate 1.5, the eSata cable, the Antec enclosure, or realize that the newer software just doesn't work well via an eSata connected drive.
> 
> Any advice on this? Many thanks.


After more testing, I am very confused about this audio dropout issue. I switched to the internal drive and thought the problem had cleared up, but last night again I had audio dropouts and video pixelation both on recording and playback. Not quite as bad as what I had seen on the external Seagate 1.5, but bad enough to be a problem.

I suppose I'll have a look at the CE tonight and see if there are any notes about fixing this issue. Looks like I have to take this to a different forum as it's not just the external disk.


----------



## Rich

tlopes said:


> After more testing, I am very confused about this audio dropout issue. I switched to the internal drive and thought the problem had cleared up, but last night again I had audio dropouts and video pixelation both on recording and playback. Not quite as bad as what I had seen on the external Seagate 1.5, but bad enough to be a problem.
> 
> I suppose I'll have a look at the CE tonight and see if there are any notes about fixing this issue. Looks like I have to take this to a different forum as it's not just the external disk.


If you're running the DLB NR, that's the problem. Haven't seen those issues since the new NR downloaded, but all I've done is watch parts of last night's ball game on two HRs. No problems on the games.

Rich


----------



## tlopes

rich584 said:


> If you're running the DLB NR, that's the problem. Haven't seen those issues since the new NR downloaded, but all I've done is watch parts of last night's ball game on two HRs. No problems on the games.
> 
> Rich


Rich, I have tried DLB, but that was a couple weeks ago and I haven't activated it since. Can that cause recurring problems even though it's not regularly used?

Reading in the DirecTV tech support forums, there is a thread called Noisy HD.
http://forums.directv.com/pe/action/forums/displaythread?rootPostID=10601135

This thread and others imply that the problem is typically only affecting HR20-700 models. I wouldn't mind swapping and getting a newer model, but I hate to lose all my recordings and start from scratch. Also, I don't want to lose my OTA tuners in the 20-700. But on the other hand, this audio issue is bugging me as well.


----------



## Doug Brott

tlopes said:


> Rich, I have tried DLB, but that was a couple weeks ago and I haven't activated it since. Can that cause recurring problems even though it's not regularly used?
> 
> Reading in the DirecTV tech support forums, there is a thread called Noisy HD.
> http://forums.directv.com/pe/action/forums/displaythread?rootPostID=10601135
> 
> This thread and others imply that the problem is typically only affecting HR20-700 models. I wouldn't mind swapping and getting a newer model, but I hate to lose all my recordings and start from scratch. Also, I don't want to lose my OTA tuners in the 20-700. But on the other hand, this audio issue is bugging me as well.


If you look here, there is a Loud Hard Drive? thread as well. This "noise" has nothing to do with any audio dropouts.


----------



## Rich

tlopes said:


> Rich, I have tried DLB, but that was a couple weeks ago and I haven't activated it since. Can that cause recurring problems even though it's not regularly used?


Don't know.



> This thread and others imply that the problem is typically only affecting HR20-700 models. I wouldn't mind swapping and getting a newer model, but I hate to lose all my recordings and start from scratch. Also, I don't want to lose my OTA tuners in the 20-700. But on the other hand, this audio issue is bugging me as well.


You're not going to get a better DVR than your 20-700. I'll send you a PM with a work around.

Rich


----------



## usualsuspect

Hi all:

I have been running my HR 21-700 for about 2 years with antec enclosure and WD 500 HD with no issues... until today! I received the 0x368 update on 10/29 and decided to do a reboot today like I do after every other software update that comes through.

However, this time I lost all my recordings and series links!!  After the update and before the reboot (5days) everything worked fine. Has anyone heard of this happening?? My first instinct is to think it was the update and subsequent reboot that caused this which NEVER happened before, not even the loss of series links..

Any help or guidance would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks


----------



## LameLefty

usualsuspect said:


> Hi all:
> 
> I have been running my HR 21-700 for about 2 years with antec enclosure and WD 500 HD with no issues... until today! I received the 0x368 update on 10/29 and decided to do a reboot today like I do after every other software update that comes through.
> 
> However, this time I lost all my recordings and series links!!  After the update and before the reboot (5days) everything worked fine. Has anyone heard of this happening?? My first instinct is to think it was the update and subsequent reboot that caused this which NEVER happened before, not even the loss of series links..
> 
> Any help or guidance would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks


Are you absolutely sure you're still running on the ESATA and not the internal drive? That has never happened to me, ever, in over 3 years with the HR2x line. Losing all your recordings AND your series links makes me think your unit believes, for whatever reason, that your external drive is not connected.


----------



## usualsuspect

LameLefty said:


> Are you absolutely sure you're still running on the ESATA and not the internal drive? That has never happened to me, ever, in over 3 years with the HR2x line. Losing all your recordings AND your series links makes me think your unit believes, for whatever reason, that your external drive is not connected.


I am pretty sure I am but if you wouldn't mind giving me the instructions to make sure I am on the external I would appreciate it..

BTW - I simply re-booted with the red button like I have on many occasions.. It almost seems like the external re-formatted when I did the re-boot.


----------



## Doug Brott

usualsuspect said:


> I am pretty sure I am but if you wouldn't mind giving me the instructions to make sure I am on the external I would appreciate it..
> 
> BTW - I simply re-booted with the red button like I have on many occasions.. It almost seems like the external re-formatted when I did the re-boot.


I'd suggest unplugging both eSATA & STB, verify eSATA connectors are snug, power on eSATA and wait 10-20 seconds, then plug in STB.


----------



## usualsuspect

Doug Brott said:


> I'd suggest unplugging both eSATA & STB, verify eSATA connectors are snug, power on eSATA and wait 10-20 seconds, then plug in STB.


I did that and everything is still gone. I know I am on the external drive because I saved an old recording on the internal so I can tell the difference if needed..

I just set-up 2 season passes and recorded 2 things to try and recreate the problem and when I did a "red button reboot" everything got wiped again and I got the same message from earlier. "Welcome to tvmail etc...."

As if I rebooted after the software upgrade. Do you have any suggestions? I am reluctant to set-up everything again and run the risk of losing programming.


----------



## Rich

usualsuspect said:


> I did that and everything is still gone. I know I am on the external drive because I saved an old recording on the internal so I can tell the difference if needed..
> 
> I just set-up 2 season passes and recorded 2 things to try and recreate the problem and when I did a "red button reboot" everything got wiped again and I got the same message from earlier. "Welcome to tvmail etc...."
> 
> As if I rebooted after the software upgrade. Do you have any suggestions? I am reluctant to set-up everything again and run the risk of losing programming.


Stop using the red button and pull the power cords on both the eSATA and the HR. Then plug in the power cord of the eSATA and then plug in the HR. If you don't have your recordings back, they're probably gone.

If that doesn't work, buy another eSATA or HDD for the Antec at a place with a liberal return policy and see if that helps. I lost two eSATAs in the NR prior to the last one and had to listen to all this nonsense about the eSATAs being at fault and the NR couldn't have possibly had an adverse effect on the eSATAs and so forth.

Right. Both eSATAs worked perfectly the day before the "DLB NR" downloaded and immediately had problems. One had been running for 14 months or so without a problem (an expensive 2TB) and the other was in an Antec enclosure and was two months old. Never a problem until that terrible NR downloaded. And someone told me that my HDDs were ALL marginal because of the audio dropouts and video pixellations. Still got them on all ten of my HRs. Ten HRs, most with relatively new HDDs and my HDDs are all marginal. Watched the football game last night and had several pixellations on an HR with a brand new HDD. Marginal. My foot.

Got my statement in the mail and paid it electronically yesterday and there's nothing marginal about my money. That seems to work for D* pretty well. It amazes me how well the accounting department for D* works. Never a problem with my bill or the money I send them.

Oh well, enough of that rant. That NR might have wrecked your WD HDD. Don't know how long the warranty is for WD drives, but you might want to look into that. If you have to buy a new one, you might consider the Seagate Barracuda. They work well with the 21-700s.

Rich


----------



## Mike Bertelson

usualsuspect said:


> I did that and everything is still gone. I know I am on the external drive because I saved an old recording on the internal so I can tell the difference if needed..
> 
> I just set-up 2 season passes and recorded 2 things to try and recreate the problem and when I did a "red button reboot" everything got wiped again and I got the same message from earlier. "Welcome to tvmail etc...."
> 
> As if I rebooted after the software upgrade. Do you have any suggestions? I am reluctant to set-up everything again and run the risk of losing programming.


It does sound like you have lost everything on the external disk. These receivers can be a bit touchy about what kind of drive and/or external enclosure they connect to. If Doug's suggestion doesn't work then it's unlikely you'll see those recordings back. Sorry.

If you're worried about using eSATA, let me say I've had one on my HR21-100 for a year and a half without a single issue. I wouldn't hesitate to install or recommend one for any HR2x. I know that's little consolation for your situation but keep in mind that it does work well in most systems. In my case I have a 750GB drive I took out of a Seagate FAP enclosure and installed it into an Antec MX-1. That drive didn't work in Seagate's enclosure but has been working for ≈18 months in the MX-1...odd but when you find something that works then run with it. 

BTW, a red button reboot (RBR) should not be the first method of restarting your receiver. You should always do a menu restart if possible. Doing an RBR is like hitting the reset button on your computer. It will cycle the system regardless of what it's trying to do at that moment. Try not to do an RBR unless you can't get access to the menu from the remote and the front panel.

Mike


----------



## usualsuspect

rich584 said:


> Stop using the red button and pull the power cords on both the eSATA and the HR. Then plug in the power cord of the eSATA and then plug in the HR. If you don't have your recordings back, they're probably gone.
> 
> If that doesn't work, buy another eSATA or HDD for the Antec at a place with a liberal return policy and see if that helps. I lost two eSATAs in the NR prior to the last one and had to listen to all this nonsense about the eSATAs being at fault and the NR couldn't have possibly had an adverse effect on the eSATAs and so forth.
> 
> Right. Both eSATAs worked perfectly the day before the "DLB NR" downloaded and immediately had problems. One had been running for 14 months or so without a problem (an expensive 2TB) and the other was in an Antec enclosure and was two months old. Never a problem until that terrible NR downloaded. And someone told me that my HDDs were ALL marginal because of the audio dropouts and video pixellations. Still got them on all ten of my HRs. Ten HRs, most with relatively new HDDs and my HDDs are all marginal. Watched the football game last night and had several pixellations on an HR with a brand new HDD. Marginal. My foot.
> 
> Got my statement in the mail and paid it electronically yesterday and there's nothing marginal about my money. That seems to work for D* pretty well. It amazes me how well the accounting department for D* works. Never a problem with my bill or the money I send them.
> 
> Oh well, enough of that rant. That NR might have wrecked your WD HDD. Don't know how long the warranty is for WD drives, but you might want to look into that. If you have to buy a new one, you might consider the Seagate Barracuda. They work well with the 21-700s.
> 
> Rich


Thanks Rich, I did the cord pull etc and it looks like everything is lost...

I too agree and think it has to do with the NR as well... I spoke with D-TV engineers twice last night and told them that I been running my set-up for over two years (or close to it) without a hiccup until this NR.. I also told them I don't want to hear its the external because I re-created the problem each time I did a re-boot because both my recordings and series links etc were gone each time...

I reluctantly started adding back series links and started recording again. I am also reluctant on purchasing a new HD until I hear back from D-TV within 48 hours (from what they told me). Not sure what they will say but will see and I will report back.


----------



## usualsuspect

MicroBeta said:


> It does sound like you have lost everything on the external disk. These receivers can be a bit touchy about what kind of drive and/or external enclosure they connect to. If Doug's suggestion doesn't work then it's unlikely you'll see those recordings back. Sorry.
> 
> If you're worried about using eSATA, let me say I've had one on my HR21-100 for a year and a half without a single issue. I wouldn't hesitate to install or recommend one for any HR2x. I know that's little consolation for your situation but keep in mind that it does work well in most systems. In my case I have a 750GB drive I took out of a Seagate FAP enclosure and installed it into an Antec MX-1. That drive didn't work in Seagate's enclosure but has been working for ≈18 months in the MX-1...odd but when you find something that works then run with it.
> 
> BTW, a red button reboot (RBR) should not be the first method of restarting your receiver. You should always do a menu restart if possible. Doing an RBR is like hitting the reset button on your computer. It will cycle the system regardless of what it's trying to do at that moment. Try not to do an RBR unless you can't get access to the menu from the remote and the front panel.
> 
> Mike


Thanks Mike.. The recordings are lost for sure.. I have been running my external for over 18 months with no issues and will continue to have one. I need and love the space... Hopefully this will not happen again (who knows).

Insofar as the red button, I have always used it after a NR with no issues until yesterday. I will make sure I no longer re-boot that way being that this happened as a result..


----------



## Doug Brott

usualsuspect said:


> Insofar as the red button, I have always used it after a NR with no issues until yesterday. I will make sure I no longer re-boot that way being that this happened as a result..


As an unrelated side note .. There is no reason to reset you receiver after a national release. DIRECTV downloads the new firmware, let's it boot up completely and then forces a restart once everything is done. So basically, the reset that you are doing has already been done for you automatically. There is no need to do it again.


----------



## usualsuspect

Doug Brott said:


> As an unrelated side note .. There is no reason to reset you receiver after a national release. DIRECTV downloads the new firmware, let's it boot up completely and then forces a restart once everything is done. So basically, the reset that you are doing has already been done for you automatically. There is no need to do it again.


Thanks Doug..


----------



## texasmoose

Between the link below & WD My DVR expander which would be the better choice.

http://www.apricorn.com/product_detail.php?type=family&id=60

Never heard of this company before. I would love to hear some 'takes' on this drive.

WD site doesn't specify what RPMs their drive spins at. Is it 5400 or 7200?


----------



## GregLee

tlopes said:


> I've also had an HR20-700 with Seagate FA Pro 750GB for years and it has worked reasonably well with occasional audio problems. ...
> I'm thinking it's possible that DTV has pushed the limits of the box with software releases so much that it has a hard time working correctly from an external drive.


I've used a Seagate FAP 750GB with my HR20-700 since December 2007, and I always have the latest CE version. I've noticed no audio dropout problems.


----------



## FredZ

I had a 1TB Apricorn DVR expander on my HR21-700 for a year and a half with no problems. Then this past summer it died and I had to replace it.



texasmoose said:


> Between the link below & WD My DVR expander which would be the better choice.
> 
> http://www.apricorn.com/product_detail.php?type=family&id=60
> 
> Never heard of this company before. I would love to hear some 'takes' on this drive.
> 
> WD site doesn't specify what RPMs their drive spins at. Is it 5400 or 7200?


----------



## lee78221

Apricorn Launches DVR Expander 2TB for DIRECTV® Customers:



> With Twice the Capacity of Other DVR Expansion Systems, Apricorn`s DVR Expander
> Makes More Space for HDTV
> POWAY, Calif.--(Business Wire)--
> Apricorn, (www.apricorn.com/directv) the leader in personal storage, today
> announced a 2TB* DVR Expander design for DIRECTV DVRs, the largest capacity DVR
> external hard drive on the market. Apricorn`s DVR Expander can add up to 1124
> hours of standard programming or 250 hours of high definition programming to
> DIRECTV DVRs.
> 
> "DIRECTV provides the largest number of high definition programs in the
> industry," said Mike McCandless, Apricorn`s VP of Sales and Marketing. "With
> high definition content, recording space is at a premium and can quickly consume
> the internal storage capacity of the DVR. The launch of Apricorn`s 2TB DVR
> Expander now gives our customers enough space to record hundreds of hours of
> their favorite HD programs."
> 
> Available in 1TB, 1.5TB and 2TB capacities, the DVR Expander gives customers
> plenty of room to record the over 130 HD channels that DIRECTV currently
> provides.


http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS132244+04-Nov-2009+BW20091104


----------



## CCarncross

texasmoose said:


> Between the link below & WD My DVR expander which would be the better choice.
> 
> http://www.apricorn.com/product_detail.php?type=family&id=60
> 
> Never heard of this company before. I would love to hear some 'takes' on this drive.
> 
> WD site doesn't specify what RPMs their drive spins at. Is it 5400 or 7200?


The WD My DVR Expander is on the recommended list, unless that list was recently updated, the Apricorn is not, so thats up to you. Personally I use what alot of us here seem to use: ANTEC MX-1 with a WD Green drive installed.


----------



## texasmoose

CCarncross said:


> The WD My DVR Expander is on the recommended list, unless that list was recently updated, the Apricorn is not, so thats up to you. Personally I use what alot of us here seem to use: ANTEC MX-1 with a WD Green drive installed.


Has anyone tried the Thermaltake N0012USU enclosure?


----------



## Rich

texasmoose said:


> Between the link below & WD My DVR expander which would be the better choice.
> 
> http://www.apricorn.com/product_detail.php?type=family&id=60
> 
> Never heard of this company before. I would love to hear some 'takes' on this drive.


I've heard of it, don't remember any positive posts about them. That 2TB Apricorn still only comes with a one year warranty. As does the Seagate Showcase.

Considering that the Seagate Barracudas come with a five year warranty and add the price of an Antec MX-1 and I don't see any reason to buy the Apricorn.

Rich


----------



## Doug Brott

lee78221 said:



> Apricorn Launches DVR Expander 2TB for DIRECTV® Customers:


Sounds intriguing. I'm actually checking to see if this 2TB gets a thumbs up from DIRECTV or not.


----------



## mikelobitz

Is there a list of "unofficially" approved hard drives. There are so many drives, not sure which ones to try. I can easily put together the enclosure and drive.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

mikelobitz said:


> Is there a list of "unofficially" approved hard drives. There are so many drives, not sure which ones to try. I can easily put together the enclosure and drive.


I think post #1 has what you're looking for. 

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2145832#post2145832

Mike


----------



## mikelobitz

MicroBeta said:


> I think post #1 has what you're looking for.
> 
> Mike


O.K....seriously guys..."unofficial" meaning not the web page directly off of DTV website. That would be the "official" web page with FOUR hard drives on it. I can't even find those exact drives online anyway. They probably have some slightly different model number at this point.

Original question posted again...

Is there an "UNOFFICIAL" list of hard drives that work as DVR expanders. Not to belittle the previous post, but seriously you guys...


----------



## Mike Bertelson

mikelobitz said:


> O.K....seriously guys..."unofficial" meaning not the web page directly off of DTV website. That would be the "official" web page with FOUR hard drives on it. I can't even find those exact drives online anyway. They probably have some slightly different model number at this point.
> 
> Original question posted again...
> 
> Is there an "UNOFFICIAL" list of hard drives that work as DVR expanders. Not to belittle the previous post, but seriously you guys...


I don't know of any info anywhere other then what you've already read.

Maybe someone else has some info. I have a Seagate 750GB in an Antec MX-1 enclosure. I would be willing to bet that a WD or Seagate put into an MX-1 would get you what you want.

Mike


----------



## texasmoose

when i hook up my WD Green 1.5 TB to my HR20, will i still be able to view archived shows off the internal HD or no?


----------



## Doug Brott

texasmoose said:


> when i hook up my WD Green 1.5 TB to my HR20, will i still be able to view archived shows off the internal HD or no?


Only if you power down the receiver, disconnect the eSATA and then restart the receiver.


----------



## xandor

Quick question -- I have to replace my HR20-700 and just got the replacement today -- I know that I'm going to lose the recordings on my external drive, but I don't remember seeing (or my search-fu skills are lacking).

Do I need to format my hard drive from my computer before connecting it to the new DVR in order to use it?


----------



## CCarncross

Nope, like you saw all the recordings will be toast. but your SL's will still be intact. No need to format...


----------



## Rich

mikelobitz said:


> O.K....seriously guys..."unofficial" meaning not the web page directly off of DTV website. That would be the "official" web page with FOUR hard drives on it. I can't even find those exact drives online anyway. They probably have some slightly different model number at this point.
> 
> Original question posted again...
> 
> Is there an "UNOFFICIAL" list of hard drives that work as DVR expanders. Not to belittle the previous post, but seriously you guys...


I use Seagate Barracuda drives in three Antecs and as internal drives in the three 20-700s that I own. All are 1.5TB HDDs. All work perfectly and come with five year replacement warranties.

Rich


----------



## herbmm

mikelobitz said:


> Is there a list of "unofficially" approved hard drives. There are so many drives, not sure which ones to try. I can easily put together the enclosure and drive.


Just go with this: ANTEC MX-1 with a WD Green drive installed.

I tried various other off the shelf options with no luck because I did not want to have to put something together. Finally, after reading every post in this thread, I did what the majority of people were saying. It took 10 minutes. I put in in over a month ago, and it worked perfectly the first time.

I put in a 1.5 TB drive. I have 60 HD movies recorded and and various other shows, and still have 62% free.

I do not know any reason to try anything else.


----------



## Rich

herbmm said:


> Just go with this: ANTEC MX-1 with a WD Green drive installed.
> 
> I tried various other off the shelf options with no luck because I did not want to have to put something together. Finally, after reading every post in this thread, I did what the majority of people were saying. It took 10 minutes. I put in in over a month ago, and it worked perfectly the first time.
> 
> I put in a 1.5 TB drive. I have 60 HD movies recorded and and various other shows, and still have 62% free.
> 
> I do not know any reason to try anything else.


Agreed, either the Seagate Barracudas or the WD Green Caviars seem to work well with any HR when placed in an Antec MX-1 enclosure. With just one HR or a couple HRs, I'd suggest the 2TB WD drive, with many HRs I'd go with the 1.5TBs. I have seen the 2TB WDs for $179 recently.

Rich


----------



## jwp767

Rich-

I have been reading all the posts and want to upgrade my HR20-700 to 1.5TB. I think my HR20-700 came from DirecTV as part of a free promotion when I changed out my old round non HD dish to the new HD dish. I have since added a $169 Costco DirecTV HD receiver which I believe is an HR22 series....black case vs. older silver case on the HR20-700.....I use it in a cabin in the mountains running off my same subscription from home where the HR20-700 operates and needs more recording space.

What I'm unclear about is whether I* have* to or *should* use the external MX-1 or whether I can simply change out the hard drive in the HR20-700 with the WD Green 1.5 or the Seagate Barracuda 1.5? Does the HR20-700 have a fan for cooling or is this the reason to go external with the MX-1 and its own fan?

The WD 1.5 is only $110 shipped from Amazon or $119 for the Barracuda. Adding the MX-1 from Amazon is another $51.

There is a seller on eBay selling the 1.5TB Barracuda "ready to go" for $197. Tried to post the link but it won't let me do that until I have posted 5 times to this site.......?
Is there anything he's doing to the drive that I can't do myself? It appears from this seller that you don't need the additional cooling from the external MX-1 enclosure??

Thanks-Wes


----------



## Doug Brott

jwp767 said:


> What I'm unclear about is whether I* have* to or *should* use the external MX-1 or whether I can simply change out the hard drive in the HR20-700 with the WD Green 1.5 or the Seagate Barracuda 1.5?


Changing out the internal HDD on your receiver is at your own peril and should only be done if you own your receiver (not a lease) .. other than that, you are on your own with your decision.


----------



## jwp767

Doug-

As I understand it....you never really own your receiver. When I bought the $169 HR22 at Costco the terms for registering it still said that it was a lease from DirecTV....so is there really any difference or importance about where the receiver came from? If it failed and DirecTV wanted it back....I would exchange out the 1.5 hard disk back to their 300Gb original one.

My concern is whether the 1.5TB puts out more heat then the HR22-700 can handle and if that's the reason to go with an MX-1 enclosure and external operation? 

I've changed out hard drives in computers before and they were simply a matter of unscrewing retaining enclosures and then unplugging/replugging in the new one.

Is there more to the story than this?

Wes


----------



## LameLefty

jwp767 said:


> Doug-
> 
> As I understand it....you never really own your receiver. When I bought the $169 HR22 at Costco the terms for registering it still said that it was a lease from DirecTV....so is there really any difference or importance about where the receiver came from? If it failed and DirecTV wanted it back....I would exchange out the 1.5 hard disk back to their 300Gb original one.
> 
> My concern is whether the 1.5TB puts out more heat then the HR22-700 can handle and if that's the reason to go with an MX-1 enclosure and external operation?
> 
> I've changed out hard drives in computers before and they were simply a matter of unscrewing retaining enclosures and then unplugging/replugging in the new one.
> 
> Is there more to the story than this?
> 
> Wes


The cases of the HR2x require a Torx security bit to open, for one thing, and they are not as easy to work on internally as a computer (smaller space, less accessible, shorter cables, etc.) .

That said, though I do own an HR21 whose drive died on me last month, I decided not to bother opening up the case. I didn't use an MX1 enclosure either though. I got a Thermaltake drive dock instead: you literally plug the drive in vertically like an oversized cartridge of an old game console. Works like a charm, and if (when!) the new drive fails in a few years, I can easily just plug in a new one without any fuss.


----------



## mobandit

jwp767 said:


> Doug-
> 
> As I understand it....you never really own your receiver. When I bought the $169 HR22 at Costco the terms for registering it still said that it was a lease from DirecTV....so is there really any difference or importance about where the receiver came from? If it failed and DirecTV wanted it back....I would exchange out the 1.5 hard disk back to their 300Gb original one.
> 
> My concern is whether the 1.5TB puts out more heat then the HR22-700 can handle and if that's the reason to go with an MX-1 enclosure and external operation?
> 
> I've changed out hard drives in computers before and they were simply a matter of unscrewing retaining enclosures and then unplugging/replugging in the new one.
> 
> Is there more to the story than this?
> 
> Wes


You didn't "buy" your receiver from Costco...you paid a lease fee. You can truly own a receiver...but not by paying $169 from Costco.


----------



## CCarncross

jwp767 said:


> Doug-
> 
> Is there more to the story than this?
> 
> Wes


Yes, its against the TOS to open a box you don't own, so if you are leasing them its much safer to add the eSATA solution by using an MX-1 setup....personally I think they run much cooler in the MX-1 than they do internally, so the drive could last much longer as well...


----------



## Bruce M.

Does this mean that the service weaknees offers for "shipping us your HD DVR and we'll install a larger internal drive for you" (unless it is meant only for true owners of their DVRs--about which weaknees says nothing) is also problematic?


----------



## CCarncross

Bruce M. said:


> Does this mean that the service weaknees offers for "shipping us your HD DVR and we'll install a larger internal drive for you" (unless it is meant only for true owners of their DVRs--about which weaknees says nothing) is also problematic?


Its possible, the people at weeknees would be much better equipped to handle that type of question.


----------



## Bruce M.

So, I just installed a Seagate 1.5 TB external drive, and wanted to check in to make sure the signs are good that it "took". Receiver is plugged back in, I'm getting all channels, etc. Button response seems a little slower, but that could be just my imagination, or normal variance. I'm apparently spoiled, since this is my first foray into DirecTV receivers, and I got the 0368 NR from the beginning, and button response seemed certainly acceptable, if not lightning fast, before hooking up the external drive. 

Anyway, I no longer have anything in my playlist, or any series in my series manager. So...do I just start rebuilding my series, and see whether the thing records when it is supposed to?


----------



## LameLefty

Bruce M. said:


> So, I just installed a Seagate 1.5 TB external drive, and wanted to check in to make sure the signs are good that it "took". Receiver is plugged back in, I'm getting all channels, etc. Button response seems a little slower, but that could be just my imagination, or normal variance. I'm apparently spoiled, since this is my first foray into DirecTV receivers, and I got the 0368 NR from the beginning, and button response seemed certainly acceptable, if not lightning fast, before hooking up the external drive.
> 
> Anyway, I no longer have anything in my playlist, or any series in my series manager. So...do I just start rebuilding my series, and see whether the thing records when it is supposed to?


It "took." The fact that your series links are gone and old recordings are not accessible is the sign. Just setup your series links again and use the box as normal.


----------



## Bruce M.

Great. Thanks. Will let guide rebuild and give it a whack later.


----------



## cptpez

I reccomend using the antec mx-1 with the WD gree 2 TB. 

as for opening the receiver to replace the internal drive and the issues with the TOS, one thing to consider is how old the receiver is. I have owned boxes adn I have leased them. I have replaced at least one leased box and when I asked directv how to ship it back they told me to just keep it due to its age. 

Has anyone actually had to return a "leased" box. If so, how old was it.


----------



## ColdShot

So I have been to hell and back with adding external HDD's for my HR21's. I bought a Seagate Showcase 1TB unit many months back for my HR21 upstairs. Hooked up the Showcase and it has worked flawlessly since day 1.

So I went ahead a few weeks ago and got another one for the downstairs HR21. Setup went fine and I expected a similiar experience as upstairs. Nope. The unit has not gone more than 4 days without a auto-reboot and total wipe, stuttering live/recorded TV and non-responsive remote issues.

I upgraded the eSATA cable, did manual resets and reboots, ran diags...no joy.

Reading here I noticed a lot of angst towards the HR21-100 units, so I checked both of my rigs to see what I had. Sure enough, good unit is a -700, bad is a -100.

Upset about the trouble I always have to go through with these boxes, I called retention to see if I could get a replacement unit, but specify that it be a -700 or an HR22 or HR23 under my protection plan. Again, no joy. They stated they cannot specify a unit to the people who box and ship them.

They did offer me another option, which I took. Go get a new HR23 on my own for about $200, and they will credit me the $200 on my bill. Done. Ordered a unit from Weaknees that will arrive tomorrow.

The Seagate Showcase is a nice, quiet unit in an attractive package with HR2X matching blue LED lights. The internal 1GB drive is on DTV's recommended list and the whole deal is not that bad at $199 direct from Seagate. It comes with a long eSATA cable as well. Just don't try to mate it up with one of those craptastic HR21-100 units.


----------



## LameLefty

cptpez said:


> Has anyone actually had to return a "leased" box. If so, how old was it.


Yes, an R15 that I'd had for over two years, and that was a refurb when I got it. The return box arrived about two weeks after the box I replaced it with was activated.


----------



## jwp767

Rich-

Got your PM but need 5 posts in order to reply......!!

On the Seagate Barracuda model....I found 2 on Amazon that are both $119 shipped/no tax and look like the same drive....?

ST31500341AS

ST31500541AS

Thanks-Wes


----------



## jwp767

cptpez said:


> I reccomend using the antec mx-1 with the WD gree 2 TB.
> 
> as for opening the receiver to replace the internal drive and the issues with the TOS, one thing to consider is how old the receiver is. I have owned boxes adn I have leased them. I have replaced at least one leased box and when I asked directv how to ship it back they told me to just keep it due to its age.
> 
> Has anyone actually had to return a "leased" box. If so, how old was it.


That has been my experience too since my first DirecTV box in 1994. In subsequent years and upgrade boxes....they always let me keep the old box and never wanted it back.....


----------



## jwp767

Bruce M. said:


> So, I just installed a Seagate 1.5 TB external drive, and wanted to check in to make sure the signs are good that it "took". Receiver is plugged back in, I'm getting all channels, etc. Button response seems a little slower, but that could be just my imagination, or normal variance. I'm apparently spoiled, since this is my first foray into DirecTV receivers, and I got the 0368 NR from the beginning, and button response seemed certainly acceptable, if not lightning fast, before hooking up the external drive.
> 
> Anyway, I no longer have anything in my playlist, or any series in my series manager. So...do I just start rebuilding my series, and see whether the thing records when it is supposed to?


Bruce-

Did you use the Antec MX-1 box for the Seagate drive? Which Barracuda 1.5TB model # Seagate did you use?

Wes


----------



## Bruce M.

Well, I'm embarrassed to say I just bought one of these, and the blurb did not disclose the model number of the Seagate 1.5 TB drive, nor did it name the "external case".

But it seems to be working flawlessly now. On a HR 21-100, no less.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160321247391&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT


----------



## Rich

Bruce M. said:


> Well, I'm embarrassed to say I just bought one of these, and the blurb did not disclose the model number of the Seagate 1.5 TB drive, nor did it name the "external case".
> 
> But it seems to be working flawlessly now. On a HR 21-100, no less.
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160321247391&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT


Well, you could have save about $90 by doing it yourself. To all you guys who are considering buying those eSATAs on eBay, they are way overpriced. But if you're not handy and want it right away...

Rich


----------



## Bruce M.

Add "lazy" and you've got me pegged


----------



## Rich

Bruce M. said:


> Add "lazy" and you've got me pegged


A condition I suffer from too, or I'd be building them and selling them on eBay. Too much like work. :lol:

Rich


----------



## bustert

OK Ive been following along and am looking to go the do it yourself route. But just to verify that I'm not missing anything, please let me know if I have.

Get the Antec MX 1 for around $50 which reads that it comes with its own power supply and esata cable. Get the WD Green Caviar 1.5 TB for around $110 and I'm goopd to go??? 

Is there only one choice for each of these I've described? I mean not some details in the description that would make a two different products for Green Caviar 1.5 TB for example?

Thanks


----------



## Rich

bustert said:


> OK Ive been following along and am looking to go the do it yourself route. But just to verify that I'm not missing anything, please let me know if I have.
> 
> Get the Antec MX 1 for around $50 which reads that it comes with its own power supply and esata cable. Get the WD Green Caviar 1.5 TB for around $110 and I'm goopd to go???


That's all you need. Get those and your _goopd_ to go. :lol:

Rich


----------



## CCarncross

I'm sure it doesnt need to be said, but I will anyway...... :lol:

make sure you order a SATA drive....its the only type of drive that will go in an ANTEC MX-1


----------



## bustert

I goopd all over on me.

Thanks for the confibations though.


----------



## bustert

Sorry to be a bother BUT - when I go to Amazon and search "western digital caviar green 1.5tb" they show three different units at very different prices. Each is SATA also. Could you advise me on this selection?

Thanks


----------



## CCarncross

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136351


----------



## bustert

many thanks.


----------



## Rich

bustert said:


> I goopd all over on me.
> 
> Thanks for the confibations though.


Hey, you made me laugh. For that I thank you. In fact, I laughed so hard I almost goopd in my pants. :lol:

You do realize you'll never live this one down?

Rich


----------



## bustert

Who's gonna know besides you and me?


----------



## Rich

bustert said:


> Who's gonna know besides you and me?


Just several hundred people who read this thread religiously. 

Rich


----------



## GregLee

bustert said:


> Sorry to be a bother BUT - when I go to Amazon and search "western digital caviar green 1.5tb" they show three different units at very different prices.


It's this one (currently $110). I see another Amazon entry for the very same model at a higher price, but evidently that's some sort of mistake. (It probably doesn't matter to you, but Newegg does not have free shipping to Hawaii, while Amazon does.)


----------



## Rich

GregLee said:


> It's this one (currently $110). I see another Amazon entry for the very same model at a higher price, but evidently that's some sort of mistake. (It probably doesn't matter to you, but Newegg does not have free shipping to Hawaii, while Amazon does.)


Yup, that's the goopd one. :lol:

Rich


----------



## susanandmark

susanandmark said:


> I traded the 2TB WD black for 2TB WD green and, so far, it's working for me. Fingers crossed that it stays that way.


Just wanted to update and say my set-up--2 TB Western Digital Green in Antec case--as guided by other members via this thread (thanks again!), is still working very well on my HR20 since my September install.

Still loving the 2 TB of storage. We've got many (most?) shows from the start of the season that we haven't been able to watch and it's still only at about 25% of capacity.

The next time one of my other external drives die, I'd definitely go with this set-up again.


----------



## Rich

susanandmark said:


> Just wanted to update and say my set-up--2 TB Western Digital Green in Antec case--as guided by other members via this thread (thanks again!), is still working very well on my HR20 since my September install.
> 
> Still loving the 2 TB of storage. We've got many (most?) shows from the start of the season that we haven't been able to watch and it's still only at about 25% of capacity.
> 
> The next time one of my other external drives die, I'd definitely go with this set-up again.


Ah, another satisfied Antec customer. Wonder if they realize why they are selling so many MX-1s? Anyhow, goopd for you. (I've added "goopd" to my dictionary.)

Rich


----------



## GregLee

rich584 said:


> Ah, another satisfied Antec customer. Wonder if they realize why they are selling so many MX-1s?


Me, too. My Antec MX-1 and WD15EADS 1.5Tb drive arrived this morning from Amazon (both for $161, free shipping). It took 10-15 minutes to put them together, I hooked up to my HR20-700, recorded and played back a couple of things, and it seems to be working fine.

I understand there is still some issue about a possible slow down when these large drives come to have < 50% room left, so I'll keep an eye on that.

In this thread we are supposed to be commenting on the D* recommended but unsupported 3 external drives. I did consider those, but they are just not price competitive, and the hints about some special juice in the D* operating system that might work only for the recommended drives seemed too vague, to me.


----------



## Rich

GregLee said:


> Me, too. My Antec MX-1 and WD15EADS 1.5Tb drive arrived this morning from Amazon (both for $161, free shipping). It took 10-15 minutes to put them together, I hooked up to my HR20-700, recorded and played back a couple of things, and it seems to be working fine.
> 
> I understand there is still some issue about a possible slow down when these large drives come to have < 50% room left, so I'll keep an eye on that.


With any eSATA, you'll probably see a bogging down of the HR at about 30% available. Just do a menu restart and that will refresh the HR and the speed will come back. I've had a 2TB that was full and dropping off programs to make room for more recordings and all I needed to do was refresh the HR by the menu restart once in a while. When it slows down, you'll see it right away. The larger the hard drive, the less you have to worry about the bogging down effect. Takes a long time to fill up the 1.5s and 2TBs.



> In this thread we are supposed to be commenting on the D* recommended but unsupported 3 external drives. I did consider those, but they are just not price competitive, and the hints about some special juice in the D* operating system that might work only for the recommended drives seemed too vague, to me.


I know that with the Seagate Showcase you only get a one year warranty. And you're limited by size and they are more expensive than the Antec route. Since Seagate usually has at least a 3 year warranty, it makes me wonder about the Showcases. Members have reported problems with the Showcase on HRs other than 700s. I've talked to the folks at Seagate quite a bit and they don't seem very interested in the Showcases.

Rich


----------



## jwp767

Rich-

I have an HR20-700 that I am trying to get a Seagate 1.5TB 341AS deal on. I've seen some go for less than $100 on eBay vs. $114.95 shipped on Amazon....so far I haven't been able to snag one yet on eBay at the cheap price and may give up and get the Amazon.com drive.

But in the meantime, what do you mean in the above post by "menu restart" to help slowing down symptoms from a HD that is getting full?

How do you do a menu restart without restarting the whole system?

Thanks-Wes


----------



## Rich

jwp767 said:


> Rich-
> 
> I have an HR20-700 that I am trying to get a Seagate 1.5TB 341AS deal on. I've seen some go for less than $100 on eBay vs. $114.95 shipped on Amazon....so far I haven't been able to snag one yet on eBay at the cheap price and may give up and get the Amazon.com drive.
> 
> But in the meantime, what do you mean in the above post by "menu restart" to help slowing down symptoms from a HD that is getting full?
> 
> How do you do a menu restart without restarting the whole system?
> 
> Thanks-Wes


Hold down the "Info" button for several seconds and you will be taken to the "System Info and Test" page. Go to your left and you will see the "Reset" option. Hilight that option and press "Select" and you will see three options. The top option, "Restart Receiver" will be hilighted, press the "Select" button and the HR will restart. That's the simplest way to get both eSATA and HR to restart in the proper sequence. You could also unplug the eSATA and the HR and then plug in the eSATA and then the HR. Result will be the same.

Here's a _link_ to the Seagate 1.5 that I would use.

Rich


----------



## jwp767

Good tip on the Amazon....it had already come down from $119 to $114 a week or so ago.....but it must have just gotten reduced again to the $99 price. I'm ready to buy it now and skip eBay.

On the restart question though.....it appears that procedure is a reset of the whole dvr and not just the menu itself right?

Wes


----------



## cuzzoni

Has anybody tried the Iomega DVR expander 1tb model with their HR20-700?

Also when I connect the external drive, will the internal drive completely stop working, as in physically stop spinning? I realize that only the external drive will be in use by the DVR. I'm hoping that hooking up an external drive will give me two benefits, more storage space, and quieter operation as my DVR is pretty annoying with the constant hard drive and fan noises.

Thanks,
CB


----------



## GregLee

cuzzoni said:


> Also when I connect the external drive, will the internal drive completely stop working, as in physically stop spinning?


I think it continues to spin. I've heard that, and I just put my finger on my HR20, which uses an external eSATA -- I feel vibration. I recall suggestions for opening the box and disconnecting power to keep the internal drive from spinning, but I don't know whether anyone has actually done that. (I don't think the HR20-700 has an internal fan.)


----------



## bustert

I goopd my drive into the MX 1 no problem, but a question or two. I have not hooked it up to the HR yet as I would like some clarification or please point me to where the info is already written. 

First, the MX (or HDD?) makes a faint buzz type sound as thought the fan is rubbing as it turns. Do you tighten the HD mount screws till they stop, or leave them loose enough for the rubber mounts to have some effect? I was wondering if tightening them all the way might cause fan interference. Or is it just the noise it makes? 

Does the HD spool up in this state or only when it is connected to something with a cable? 

Somewhere I read that once this is connected the internal HD is not accessable unless you disconnect the external HD. To access the internal again you need to do a menu restart? 

I understand that you cannot watch what is recorded on the external drive on anything but the receiver it was recorded with. OK. What happens if you do transfer this to another unit. It just records over what the first unit did? Or is that space not available to do anything with? 

Is there a field guide for this kind of info you can direct me to?

As was just asked, it would be nice to know if you can deactivate the internal drive to cut the noise and heat.

Thanks to you all.


----------



## Rich

jwp767 said:


> Good tip on the Amazon....it had already come down from $119 to $114 a week or so ago.....but it must have just gotten reduced again to the $99 price. I'm ready to buy it now and skip eBay.
> 
> On the restart question though.....it appears that procedure is a reset of the whole dvr and not just the menu itself right?
> 
> Wes


Doesn't really "reset" the HR, just restarts it.

Rich


----------



## Rich

cuzzoni said:


> Has anybody tried the Iomega DVR expander 1tb model with their HR20-700?
> 
> Also when I connect the external drive, will the internal drive completely stop working, as in physically stop spinning? I realize that only the external drive will be in use by the DVR. I'm hoping that hooking up an external drive will give me two benefits, more storage space, and quieter operation as my DVR is pretty annoying with the constant hard drive and fan noises.
> 
> Thanks,
> CB


Seems like it should stop spinning, doesn't it? They do run well without an internal drive, so you would think that there would be a switch or an option to shut the internal off when an eSATA is added, but logic rarely prevails with the programmers. To answer your question, yes it just keeps spinning away. At least on the 20-700s, the fan keeps running, but put an eSATA on a 21 and the fan stops and you get a constant temp of 77 degrees. Even tho the internal drive keeps running. So you end up shooting juice to two HDDs even tho only one is needed. Brilliant.

Rich


----------



## Rich

bustert said:


> I goopd my drive into the MX 1 no problem, but a question or two. I have not hooked it up to the HR yet as I would like some clarification or please point me to where the info is already written.
> 
> First, the MX (or HDD?) makes a faint buzz type sound as thought the fan is rubbing as it turns. Do you tighten the HD mount screws till they stop, or leave them loose enough for the rubber mounts to have some effect? I was wondering if tightening them all the way might cause fan interference. Or is it just the noise it makes?


There were some issues with the fans on the MX-1 a while back. Lots of people say that they are silent. I haven't found that to be true and don't recommend them for quiet bedrooms. I have mine resting on foam pads. If the fan annoys you, contact Antec, they seem to be pretty good about replacing the enclosures if there is a problem. I do tighten the mounting screws so that they are nice and snug.



> Does the HD spool up in this state or only when it is connected to something with a cable?


They all spool up right away when the power cord is plugged in. Some eSATAs don't light up until they are recognized by the HRs. I've got tape over the blue lights on the Antecs, so I never really noticed. You alway want to have the jumper cable plugged in before plugging in the power cord. Don't want to be jiggling the HDD when it is spinning. Lost a couple eSATAs like that.



> Somewhere I read that once this is connected the internal HD is not accessable unless you disconnect the external HD. To access the internal again you need to do a menu restart?


You can do it that way. I wouldn't. I'd pull the power cord on the HR and then pull the power cord on the eSATA. Then reboot the HR and leave the eSATA unplugged. That will give you access to the internal drive.



> I understand that you cannot watch what is recorded on the external drive on anything but the receiver it was recorded with. OK. What happens if you do transfer this to another unit. It just records over what the first unit did? Or is that space not available to do anything with?


I've done this a couple times and the easiest way to get rid of the programming is to go to "Playlist", press the "yellow" button and when the small menu pops up go to "Mark Programs to Delete" and then go to "Mark All" and go to "Continue" and then delete all the marked programs.



> Is there a field guide for this kind of info you can direct me to?


It's easier to just ask the question rather than rooting thru pages of info.



> As was just asked, it would be nice to know if you can deactivate the internal drive to cut the noise and heat.


You "can" open the top panel and disconnect the power to the internal drive, bear in mind if you don't "own" the HR, you "may" not do that.

Rich


----------



## GregLee

bustert said:


> First, the MX (or HDD?) makes a faint buzz type sound as thought the fan is rubbing as it turns. Do you tighten the HD mount screws till they stop, or leave them loose enough for the rubber mounts to have some effect? I was wondering if tightening them all the way might cause fan interference. Or is it just the noise it makes?


I tightened the screws down firmly, but they could have been tightened further. I just walked over and put my ear down to my MX-1 -- I couldn't hear anything. I assume the fan is running. (But the laptop fan I put on top of my HR-20 a year ago is getting pretty noisy -- is there some sort of maintenance I should be doing on it?)


----------



## Rich

GregLee said:


> I tightened the screws down firmly, but they could have been tightened further. I just walked over and put my ear down to my MX-1 -- I couldn't hear anything. I assume the fan is running. (But the laptop fan I put on top of my HR-20 a year ago is getting pretty noisy -- is there some sort of maintenance I should be doing on it?)


Why did you put a laptop fan on the HR20? They run up to about 130 degrees without problems and are well ventilated. I've never had a heat problem with a 20-700.

Screws are meant to be "snugged" up so that they will not back off. If they do back off, you're gonna have problems. Gently snug up the screw so that it reaches the point where you'd have to apply a lot of pressure (torque) to turn it more and stop.

Rich


----------



## GregLee

rich584 said:


> Why did you put a laptop fan on the HR20? They run up to about 130 degrees without problems and are well ventilated. I've never had a heat problem with a 20-700.


I read over one or two threads of discussion about that, where opinion was divided. Mostly those in favor of fans just used the very general argument that most any electronic equipment will likely run better and longer if it's a little cooler. I thought there was enough reason there to make a fan a good investment. My HR20 has not been problem-free, but whether its problem (loss of signal on one tuner) was heat-related, or whether it would have developed other problems without the fan, I have no idea.


----------



## Rich

GregLee said:


> I read over one or two threads of discussion about that, where opinion was divided. Mostly those in favor of fans just used the very general argument that most any electronic equipment will likely run better and longer if it's a little cooler. I thought there was enough reason there to make a fan a good investment. My HR20 has not been problem-free, but whether its problem (loss of signal on one tuner) was heat-related, or whether it would have developed other problems without the fan, I have no idea.


Which model of HR20-xxx is it?

Rich


----------



## CCarncross

Since the MX-1 has vibration dampers on the screw mounts I snug them up but don't over tighten them, as they absorb vibration and noise better that way. Although not at all loud the only noise I hear from any of my MX-1's is the fan, I never hear the drives, even if they are thrashing due to excessive drive activity.


----------



## bustert

> I've done this a couple times and the easiest way to get rid of the programming is to go to "Playlist", press the "yellow" button and when the small menu pops up go to "Mark Programs to Delete" and then go to "Mark All" and go to "Continue" and then delete all the marked programs


.

Does this mean that if you don't delete the material from DVR A before placing the external HDD on DVR B, DVR B can't use that space on the HDD? It can't write over it?


----------



## GregLee

rich584 said:


> Which model of HR20-xxx is it?
> 
> Rich


HR20-700. When I can remember to reset it twice a week, I don't lose the tuner signal.


----------



## Rich

GregLee said:


> HR20-700. When I can remember to reset it twice a week, I don't lose the tuner signal.


So what do you see when you "lose the tuner"? If you're getting a 771 "searching for signal" error message, you probably just need a dish alignment. I trust you've done the obvious things?

Rich


----------



## GregLee

rich584 said:


> So what do you see when you "lose the tuner"? If you're getting a 771 "searching for signal" error message, you probably just need a dish alignment. I trust you've done the obvious things?
> 
> Rich


Yes, error 771 on just one tuner, and always the same one (but I forget right now which one --- tuner 2, I think). There was a long thread 3-5 months ago here with reports from a bunch of people with HR20-700s who seemed to have exactly my problem: it's always the same tuner that loses signal, it only happens every few days, except when there's a problem signal levels are normal and comparable for the two tuners, it doesn't affect other boxes on the same antenna (my H21 is not affected), it's always temporarily fixed by a reset, and according to several reports it's completely fixed by replacing the HR20 with a different model. I don't think your diagnosis of a poorly aligned antenna is especially plausible, but it's possible. (I have an SWM5 switch and just one antenna lead into the HR20-700, no BBCs.)

I like my HR20-700, and I don't want to replace it. So, since I know how to work around this little problem, I've stopped worrying about it.


----------



## Rich

GregLee said:


> Yes, error 771 on just one tuner, and always the same one (but I forget right now which one --- tuner 2, I think). There was a long thread 3-5 months ago here with reports from a bunch of people with HR20-700s who seemed to have exactly my problem: it's always the same tuner that loses signal, it only happens every few days, except when there's a problem signal levels are normal and comparable for the two tuners, it doesn't affect other boxes on the same antenna (my H21 is not affected), it's always temporarily fixed by a reset, and according to several reports it's completely fixed by replacing the HR20 with a different model. I don't think your diagnosis of a poorly aligned antenna is especially plausible, but it's possible. (I have an SWM5 switch and just one antenna lead into the HR20-700, no BBCs.)
> 
> I like my HR20-700, and I don't want to replace it. So, since I know how to work around this little problem, I've stopped worrying about it.


Your 21 not having the same problem would tell me from my experiences that your dish is probably aligned correctly. The 20-700 will work well with less of a sig than the 21s. In other words, you have to be picky about what you feed the 21s, but the 20-700s will run on less.

I'd still have the dish aligned. Hey, you never know. To lose the 20-700 would be a shame, they are the best of the HRs. I trust you've switched it to the same feed as the 21? If you do that and don't get the 771s, that will tell you that you have another problem. In that case you could expect to get the 771s on the 21.

I have had a few 20-700s with bad tuners, but not for a couple years. I did have a 21-700 that got caught in a loop and couldn't find any signals at all.

I've been hesitant to switch to a SWM for just this sort of thing. I opted for two Slimline dishes and multi-switches. I know how to troubleshoot this type of "system" and I didn't feel like learning a new "system".

Rich


----------



## drpjr

Rich, About two months ago I had to replace one of my trusty HR20-100s with a dead #2 tuner. They realigned the dish replaced all connectors and still no #2. It might be that the -700 is not the problem but the 20 series is. I wonder if some tuner 2 components are to close to that 130degree heat source? IIRC didn't the HR10s have a tuner issue with the internal OTA coax jumpers? Bad fittings or something like that. Too bad more people don't own their boxes and could take a peak inside before replacement. Just a thought.


----------



## TomCat

rich584 said:


> Why did you put a laptop fan on the HR20?...


It's not uncommon. The lower the ambient heat is to the HDD and MB/PS the longer they will last, so moving more air is helpful, and cheap insurance. I got some 4" standalone fans for $5 from Walmart pointed at the back of all of my DVRs and AVR. It certainly can't hurt.


----------



## Rich

drpjr said:


> Rich, About two months ago I had to replace one of my trusty HR20-100s with a dead #2 tuner. They realigned the dish replaced all connectors and still no #2. It might be that the -700 is not the problem but the 20 series is. I wonder if some tuner 2 components are to close to that 130degree heat source? IIRC didn't the HR10s have a tuner issue with the internal OTA coax jumpers? Bad fittings or something like that. Too bad more people don't own their boxes and could take a peak inside before replacement. Just a thought.


With these things it could be anything. I've had a lot of bad 20-700s. Thing is that I have two dishes and ten HRs and can troubleshoot easily. If I was having a problem with a tuner, I would put it on my other dish and if I still got it, I would replace the HR.

When you say the "20 series", I have to shudder. To compare a 20-700 to a 20-100 is blasphemy to me. Just an opinion, I know other people have functioning 100s, I've never had one that worked and I never will. I remember when the 20-100 came out and Earl posted the pictures of the interior. My first comment was, "It looks like a TiVo". Cheap, compared to the 20-700.

Rich


----------



## Rich

TomCat said:


> It's not uncommon. The lower the ambient heat is to the HDD and MB/PS the longer they will last, so moving more air is helpful, and cheap insurance. I got some 4" standalone fans for $5 from Walmart pointed at the back of all of my DVRs and AVR. It certainly can't hurt.


I know it can't hurt. I ventilate all my cabinets with a 3" hole saw and try to keep all my equipment out of cabinets. Most of my electronics are open on all sides. It just bothers me that people have to buy extra equipment to simply run devices. The devices should be built with the idea in mind that people are gonna put them in enclosed cabinets.

Look at electrical motors. They are built to run at temperatures well above ambient temperature and that info is listed on the nameplates. We used to cook food on some motors. And that temp was well within operating parameters.

Rich


----------



## NiteOwl

Looks like my 2+ yr old FAP 750 has given up the ghost. We had a power outage and I can't get it to come back up through resetting and unplugging. Its now making a slight ticking sound and occasionally beeps. Am I correct to assume it is no more than a door stop?

Any better luck with the stability/long-term performance of the newer solutions? What is currently the least likely to fail? I would rather have less storage and a more robust drive than lose everything again.

Thanks in advance...


----------



## CCarncross

A power outage can take out any eSATA solution. Many here really like the MX-1 and a WD Green drive, but many also use a UPS so that if there is a power outage the unit is protected.


----------



## GregLee

NiteOwl said:


> Looks like my 2+ yr old FAP 750 has given up the ghost.


My 2- year old FAP 750 just failed --- that's why I'm hanging around here. I have high hopes that the popular combo we've just been talking about will be more durable. The FAP 750 had no fan and ran hot. Yes, I know it was designed to run that way, but that doesn't mean the heat didn't shorten its life. But the Antec MX-1 case has a fan, and the Western Digital Green drives are designed to run at lower power and cooler than others. Cool, man, cool. (I have my eSATA on a UPS, and my FAP didn't fail because of a power surge, I don't think.)


----------



## NiteOwl

I have a pretty fancy Monster Power Center hooked up to all my systems, but its not UPS, which I guess is the next step I need to take. 

What is everyone buying for UPS these days? Looks like I will be spending a few bucks on my AV equipment this holiday weekend...


----------



## GregLee

NiteOwl said:


> What is everyone buying for UPS these days?


I bought this Cyberpower UPS for $39, free shipping, in July. I chose it because it was cheap. I have my HR20, eSATA, and AVR hooked up to it, but not my TV.


----------



## jwp767

Hey Rich-

I ordered the Amazon Seagate for $99.99 the other day but today they dropped the price again to $97.99...!!

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00066IJPQ/ref=oss_T15_product

Since mine hasn't shipped yet I emailed them and asked for the credit.

I also saw that the WD 1.5TB green was lowered to $109.99.

Wes


----------



## Rich

jwp767 said:


> Hey Rich-
> 
> I ordered the Amazon Seagate for $99.99 the other day but today they dropped the price again to $97.99...!!
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00066IJPQ/ref=oss_T15_product
> 
> Since mine hasn't shipped yet I emailed them and asked for the credit.
> 
> I also saw that the WD 1.5TB green was lowered to $109.99.
> 
> Wes


Just a personal preference, but I prefer the Seagate Barracudas. You've made the right choice.

Rich


----------



## flattire

got a seagate baracuda 1.5t and did not use the mx1 enclosure because i had not read the thread concerning external hdds until i could not get it to work. i used a PPA international enclosure from microcenter and tried to hook it up to the esata port per the dtv instructions. tried for hours and many hard power pull reboots of the hr and never got it to see the external drive. this morning i pulled the external drive and did a hard power reboot of the hr and to my surprise, code 14-866...... internal hdd dead. THAT SUCKS !!!!!!!!!!
glad i had another hr in the bedroom that i could move to the living room today to have tv. cant imagine why the attempted hook up of an external hdd would have caused an issue with the internal:eek2:......
but it did... its a dead duck. they are sending me a new one but now im afraid to try the ext hdd again.oh well, i guess they can just keep sending me new ones. better get a MX1 enclosure before i try it again. anyone else ever hear of this happening ?


----------



## Rich

flattire said:


> got a seagate baracuda 1.5t and did not use the mx1 enclosure because i had not read the thread concerning external hdds until i could not get it to work. i used a PPA international enclosure from microcenter and tried to hook it up to the esata port per the dtv instructions. tried for hours and many hard power pull reboots of the hr and never got it to see the external drive. this morning i pulled the external drive and did a hard power reboot of the hr and to my surprise, code 14-866...... internal hdd dead. THAT SUCKS !!!!!!!!!!
> glad i had another hr in the bedroom that i could move to the living room today to have tv. cant imagine why the attempted hook up of an external hdd would have caused an issue with the internal:eek2:......
> but it did... its a dead duck. they are sending me a new one but now im afraid to try the ext hdd again.oh well, i guess they can just keep sending me new ones. better get a MX1 enclosure before i try it again. anyone else ever hear of this happening ?


No, but most of us went with the MX-1s a long time ago. No reason to think putting an odd enclosure wouldn't screw up an HR. Best to stick with what we know works.

Rich


----------



## jwp767

Amazon dropped the price of the Seagate 1.5 again....now down to $89.99 free shipping.
As long as they haven't shipped to you, they will keep reducing the price. My original order wasn't due to ship until 11/30, so they will keep giving me a credit if the price continues to drop.....

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00066IJPQ/ref=oss_T15_product


----------



## Rich

jwp767 said:


> Amazon dropped the price of the Seagate 1.5 again....now down to $89.99 free shipping.
> As long as they haven't shipped to you, they will keep reducing the price. My original order wasn't due to ship until 11/30, so they will keep giving me a credit if the price continues to drop.....
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00066IJPQ/ref=oss_T15_product


Wonder how much more the price will drop? Now if they only made a 2TB Barracuda with a 7200 RPM spindle speed. The 2TB that they have for sale now is known for making a lot of noise and has a speed of 5900 RPMs. Makes a squealing noise. Same thing with all the Seagate 5900 RPM models. I've read that in reviews of those HDDs.

Rich


----------



## captainjrl

Newegg has the WD 2 TB green drive on sale for $140 until 8pm pst tonight


----------



## flattire

picked up an mx1 from microcenter for $63. pricey, but if it works, its worth it. still gonna try and hook up the ppa enclosure with the new dvr when it gets here. wanna see if i get the same results. that way i will know if it works - dont work - or kills the internal drive. cant learn anything unless i test.


----------



## tazman01

Wow - read through this thread a few weeks ago. Ordered a WD Caviar Green 2TB and an MX-1 from Newegg. Caught up on most of my shows taped (still have some on the internal still but I can watch those when I get a chance). 

Edit - HR22/100 unit, software 0x368

Hooked up external as instructions at the start of the thread, dvr recognized, formatted, set up - good to go without a hitch.

Just gotta say you guys have done a great job. Now I don't have to flirt with < 20% remaining on the internal and keep on the wife and kids to watch their shows.

One question / concern - I probably have 10 hours of shows to watch on the internal - if I remember correctly and please correct me if I'm wrong. I disconnect the dvr to turn if off, turn off the external and diconnect the external power cord. Plug the dvr back in and I can watch the internal hd shows. Then once done to go back, power down the dvr, connect the power cord on the external, turn it on, plug the dvr back in. Is this correct? Any concern for damage to the external lose shows - the dvr will not re-format it will it? Any concern if I have to do this a few times?

Thanks again. keep up the good work - it is greatly appreciated.


----------



## shumiron

I am curious about the process of switching back to the internal drive too. I saw a comment on one of the posts that said you just need to turn off the external drive to go back to the internal drive. I assume that the DTV receiver needs to be turned off first. Does the DTV receiver need to be unplugged or just turned off? When going back to the external drive will all the recorded programs and fav's be retained or will the drive be reformatted? I did see an old post that said when the system was restarted the External drive was reformatted - that would be a bummer - like if power goes out or some kicks the plug out of the wall. 

Does anyone know anything about restarting and effect on external drive?


----------



## Alebob911

Hopes this helps you both,

To go back to the internal HDD, unplug the receiver first, then power off the external HDD, remove the eSATA cable from the DVR then power up the receiver. If you decide to go back to the external HDD that drive will show your recordings made prior to it being disconnected. No format is done to the drive if the receiver sees that it already has been connected to the receiver. Automatic formatting only happens to drives that do not have the correct system format for the DVR.


tazman01 said:


> Wow - read through this thread a few weeks ago. Ordered a WD Caviar Green 2TB and an MX-1 from Newegg. Caught up on most of my shows taped (still have some on the internal still but I can watch those when I get a chance).
> 
> Edit - HR22/100 unit, software 0x368
> 
> Hooked up external as instructions at the start of the thread, dvr recognized, formatted, set up - good to go without a hitch.
> 
> Just gotta say you guys have done a great job. Now I don't have to flirt with < 20% remaining on the internal and keep on the wife and kids to watch their shows.
> 
> One question / concern - I probably have 10 hours of shows to watch on the internal - if I remember correctly and please correct me if I'm wrong. I disconnect the dvr to turn if off, turn off the external and diconnect the external power cord. Plug the dvr back in and I can watch the internal hd shows. Then once done to go back, power down the dvr, connect the power cord on the external, turn it on, plug the dvr back in. Is this correct? Any concern for damage to the external lose shows - the dvr will not re-format it will it? Any concern if I have to do this a few times?
> 
> Thanks again. keep up the good work - it is greatly appreciated.





shumiron said:


> I am curious about the process of switching back to the internal drive too. I saw a comment on one of the posts that said you just need to turn off the external drive to go back to the internal drive. I assume that the DTV receiver needs to be turned off first. Does the DTV receiver need to be unplugged or just turned off? When going back to the external drive will all the recorded programs and fav's be retained or will the drive be reformatted? I did see an old post that said when the system was restarted the External drive was reformatted - that would be a bummer - like if power goes out or some kicks the plug out of the wall.
> 
> Does anyone know anything about restarting and effect on external drive?


----------



## Rich

tazman01 said:


> Wow - read through this thread a few weeks ago. Ordered a WD Caviar Green 2TB and an MX-1 from Newegg. Caught up on most of my shows taped (still have some on the internal still but I can watch those when I get a chance).
> 
> Edit - HR22/100 unit, software 0x368
> 
> Hooked up external as instructions at the start of the thread, dvr recognized, formatted, set up - good to go without a hitch.
> 
> Just gotta say you guys have done a great job. Now I don't have to flirt with < 20% remaining on the internal and keep on the wife and kids to watch their shows.
> 
> One question / concern - I probably have 10 hours of shows to watch on the internal - if I remember correctly and please correct me if I'm wrong. I disconnect the dvr to turn if off, turn off the external and diconnect the external power cord. Plug the dvr back in and I can watch the internal hd shows. Then once done to go back, power down the dvr, connect the power cord on the external, turn it on, plug the dvr back in. Is this correct? Any concern for damage to the external lose shows - the dvr will not re-format it will it? Any concern if I have to do this a few times?
> 
> Thanks again. keep up the good work - it is greatly appreciated.


You're correct and you shouldn't lose any programming on the eSATA. I've been doing that for years and never had a problem.

Rich


----------



## Rich

shumiron said:


> I am curious about the process of switching back to the internal drive too. I saw a comment on one of the posts that said you just need to turn off the external drive to go back to the internal drive.


Don't do that. You'll screw something up even tho it might work at first. Follow the protocols.



> I assume that the DTV receiver needs to be turned off first. Does the DTV receiver need to be unplugged or just turned off?


Unplug the HR.



> When going back to the external drive will all the recorded programs and fav's be retained or will the drive be reformatted? I did see an old post that said when the system was restarted the External drive was reformatted - that would be a bummer - like if power goes out or some kicks the plug out of the wall.


That has happened to some people. But it's rare and I have to wonder if the proper protocols were followed. Very few posters ever admit to making a mistake, but I'm sure that they do. And I'd be surprised if some of those reports about the HDD being reformatted weren't a result of not following the proper protocols.



> Does anyone know anything about restarting and effect on external drive?


If you follow the protocols listed so many times in these threads there should be no problem and no effect on the external drive.

It's quite simple: When adding an eSATA, unplug the HR put the eSATA to eSATA jumper cable in place (you should never have to touch it again) then plug in the eSATA and then plug in the HR.

To access the internal drive: Unplug the HR, unplug the eSATA, plug in the HR and let it boot up and you're on the internal drive.

One word of caution, if the eSATA is running don't touch it, don't remove the jumper cable. If you have to move it, unplug it.

Rich


----------



## shumiron

Thanks, Alebob911. I did set up an eSATA drive, recorded a movie, unplugged the DVR, plugged it back in; and the receiver restarted, hooked back up to satellite and everything was OK. I am using a Hitachi 7200 RPM - 1 TB drive ($60 at Fry's) and a Filemate USB/eSATA enclosure ($30 at Fry's). The external drive system seems to be working perfectly - no skips or pixellating. I will test going back to internal drive later today. 

By the way has anyone tried using a small laptop cooler unit under the receiver for keeping it cool? My receiver still seems to be running quite warm with the external drive hooked up and I have the receiver in a closed space in the equipment cabinet. Also, if I tried using the laptop cooler can I plug it into one of the USB ports on back of receiver to get power; in other words are the USB ports functional?


----------



## GregLee

shumiron said:


> By the way has anyone tried using a small laptop cooler unit under the receiver for keeping it cool? ... Also, if I tried using the laptop cooler can I plug it into one of the USB ports on back of receiver to get power; in other words are the USB ports functional?


Yes, I've had a laptop fan plugged into the USB port on my HR20-700 for a while. I have it on top with the two fans blowing down. (I'm not saying a fan is needed or that it should be on top, though --- it's just what I've done.)

The HR-20 seems always to recognize the eSATA drive without any special attention to plugging the drive cable or power after resets or power outages. After first connecting it and getting it formatted, you can just forget about it.


----------



## flattire

does anyone have a seagate 1.5t and an MX-1 dunning on a HR22-100 ?
got my replacement ird today and i cant get the thing to see the external drive. one thing i noticed is in this thread, people are saying to let the drive spin up before plugging the power cord into the hr. my drive wont spin up by itself unless i pull the esata cord from the back of the mx1 and the drive spins up and then i plug the esata cord back into the back of the mx1 and then power up the hr. any ideas ? not once have i seen anything on the screen about formatting of the drive so i assume that the hr is not seeing it. also when should you see the format ? after the complete reboot and sat info sownload or prior to the complete boot and seeing it download sat info ?

UPDATE: it is working.. i recorded 7 mins of a program when it first booted up and now that i have the external unpluged and booted to the internal drive
it says 100% free and that 7 min prog is not there. NEVER seen anything about a format of the drive.. wonder why. maybe new firmware update
of ird masks the operation. oh well, if it aint broke, dont fix it..this is an MX1 with seagate 1.5t 7200 rpm drive. 
thanks


----------



## cuzzoni

Just to chime in about the laptop cooler. It helps a lot, my temperature dropped a bunch and my HR20 stopped with all its bizarre behavior.
I used to reboot my DVR every few days as it would freeze up and forget to record anything.

I got an Antec one when Circuit City went out of business for $10.
You actually can't hear the fan, as its quieter than the HR20 itself.

cb


----------



## gully_foyle

rich584 said:


> Here's a _link_ to the Seagate 1.5 that I would use.


There are lots of people who feel the 7200.11 line from Seagate should be avoided. Earlier firmware versions have had sudden failure problems. New firmware supposedly fixes this but I personally have had 3 out of 3 ST31500341AS 1.5TB drives fail -- purchased in retail boxes from Fry's in October 2009. Since this was before I knew about the firmware issue, I'd have to assume that either the fix doesn't work, or there is a lot of old stock still being sold.

I also had an MX-1 with a 1TB Seagate working in an HR21 until just last week, when it kept rebooting to the internal drive. And yes, it too was the 7200.11 series.

Right now I'm sticking with WD. YMMV.


----------



## GregLee

gully_foyle said:


> There are lots of people who feel the 7200.11 line from Seagate should be avoided.


Whew! Poor Seagate. Most of these problem reports, though, come from early 2009 or before --- maybe the current generation of drives is better. Anyhow, thanks for the references.


----------



## gully_foyle

GregLee said:


> Whew! Poor Seagate. Most of these problem reports, though, come from early 2009 or before --- maybe the current generation of drives is better. Anyhow, thanks for the references.


Perhaps. But the 3 drives I got last month have all failed. Click-click-clickety-click-urk. Played hell with my Win7 installation.

Then again, Fry's sometimes sells closeout stock, so maybe it was old drives. Note that this is ONLY the 7200.11 line. Apparently there is no problem with other models.


----------



## CJTE

gully_foyle said:


> Perhaps. But the 3 drives I got last month have all failed. Click-click-clickety-click-urk. Played hell with my Win7 installation.
> 
> Then again, Fry's sometimes sells closeout stock, so maybe it was old drives. Note that this is ONLY the 7200.11 line. Apparently there is no problem with other models.


After 2 years Seagate finally officially recognized that the Barracuda 7200.11's had a firmware issue.
You can send the drive in to have it repaired (they have 5 year warranty's on them), but its your dime to ship them in.

Every Seagate/Maxtor drive ive used has not lasted me nearly as long as any other drive I've used. I happen to prefer Western Digital personally.
I am also somewhat biased because the first drive that ever failed on me was a Maxtor. So was the 2nd.

Oh, and up until the switchover to intel, Apple was using primarily Maxtor HDDs.
Atleast 5 in 30 machines died ever year due to bad HDD.
The first ones died about 2 years out of the box, then it was ever year after that I could count on finding about 5 dead machines to every 30-45. I ran 3 labs of 160 Macs total.

It sucked.


----------



## Rich

GregLee said:


> Whew! Poor Seagate. Most of these problem reports, though, come from early 2009 or before --- maybe the current generation of drives is better. Anyhow, thanks for the references.


I've got a bunch of them both in MX-1s and internals in HRs that I own and have never had a problem with any of them. And, yes, some of them were on the list last year when the problems occurred, but they've worked fine for me.

What I would avoid is the Seagate Barracudas that have a spindle speed of 5900RPMs. The reviews I've read about them state that the make a loud high pitched noise.

Rich


----------



## styrum

Western Digital claims:
"Power-conserving WD AV-GP SATA hard drives take advantage of WD GreenPower Technology to meet the extreme requirements of demanding audio and video environments. With power reduction of up to 40%, they deliver cool and quiet operation and reliability perfect for audio video applications such as PVRs, DVRs, set-top boxes (STBs) as well as surveillance video recording."

The particular models of interest would be WD10EVDS, WD15EVDS, WD20EVDS.


Anybody has experience with these yet?


----------



## GregLee

styrum said:


> Anybody has experience with these yet?


Yes, if you glance through the Recommended Drives and Working eSATA Setups threads, you'll see frequent mention of the Green drives, especially in Antec MX-1 enclosures. I have a WD15EVDS. Also, Steve found a smaller size Green drive supplied in an HR22-100, which I thought was encouraging. (However, they are not on the D* list of recommended drives.)


----------



## Rich

styrum said:


> Western Digital claims:
> "Power-conserving WD AV-GP SATA hard drives take advantage of WD GreenPower Technology to meet the extreme requirements of demanding audio and video environments. With power reduction of up to 40%, they deliver cool and quiet operation and reliability perfect for audio video applications such as PVRs, DVRs, set-top boxes (STBs) as well as surveillance video recording."
> 
> The particular models of interest would be WD10EVDS, WD15EVDS, WD20EVDS.
> 
> Anybody has experience with these yet?


We've documented many positive results with the WD "EADs" HDDs. Don't think I've seen anything about "EVDs". Something new, perhaps?

Seagate also claims to have power reduction of 43% on their Barracudas.

Rich


----------



## CCarncross

rich584 said:


> We've documented many positive results with the WD "EADs" HDDs. Don't think I've seen anything about "EVDs". Something new, perhaps?
> 
> Seagate also claims to have power reduction of 43% on their Barracudas.
> 
> Rich


The EVD's are the ones made specifically for AV applications...not widely available possibly until recently. These should potentially be even better suited for use with your DVR.


----------



## LameLefty

CCarncross said:


> The EVD's are the ones made specifically for AV applications...not widely available possibly until recently. These should potentially be even better suited for use with your DVR.


I've had one for almost two months, mounted in an eSATA dock working great with my HR21-700.


----------



## Rich

CCarncross said:


> The EVD's are the ones made specifically for AV applications...not widely available possibly until recently. These should potentially be even better suited for use with your DVR.


Huh. First I've heard of them. Have to look at them. Thanx.

Rich


----------



## CCarncross

Well, comparing prices, which drive do you think people are going to buy?

WD15EADS around $90
WD15EVDS around $150

Based on the number of posts around here with people buying the cheapest add-on drives they can get their hands then coming back and complaining about compatibility with this unit or that unit, I can easily see most buying the EADS model since its been working fine for most of us....


----------



## Rich

CCarncross said:


> Well, comparing prices, which drive do you think people are going to buy?
> 
> WD15EADS around $90
> WD15EVDS around $150
> 
> Based on the number of posts around here with people buying the cheapest add-on drives they can get their hands then coming back and complaining about compatibility with this unit or that unit, I can easily see most buying the EADS model since its been working fine for most of us....


Point taken. I'm not a big fan of WD. Had a lot of problems with them and the TiVos, along with Sammy HDDs and a couple other obscure brands. And the one WE15EADS that I bought didn't survive the DLB NR, for whatever reason. I've had no problems with the Seagates and their tech support is much better than WD's.

So, how much does the 2TB version cost? I know the EADS have come down and the cheapest I have seen is $179, but that didn't last long and they're back up to $199.

Rich


----------



## styrum

Just ran froogle. Shipped to Seattle:

WD10EVDS $104.81 (MacMall)
WD15EVDS $127.64 (Colamco)
WD20EDS $211.99 (Buy.com)


----------



## styrum

Did anybody try it with HR2x?


----------



## CCarncross

styrum said:


> Did anybody try it with HR2x?


IS there a specific reason for choosing something other than what literally hundreds of others have proven to work flawlessly? (Antec MX-1) Is the $10-$15 more for the MX-1 when its on sale going to kill anyone?


----------



## styrum

Some users reported a noisy and problematic fan for MX-1.


----------



## CCarncross

styrum said:


> Some users reported a noisy and problematic fan for MX-1.


You are correct, but that was awhile ago and Varis was excellent about replacing those uints, they have a 1 year warranty IIRC. But the important part here is *they have a fan*. Many of the other enclosures do not, sure they run silent but most of the ones reported here actually run pretty hot and eat drives for breakfast when used for 24/7 operation...


----------



## captainjrl

rich584 said:


> So, how much does the 2TB version cost? I know the EADS have come down and the cheapest I have seen is $179, but that didn't last long and they're back up to $199.
> 
> Rich


Just picked up a 2TB EADS from Newegg for $139.


----------



## styrum

Just like the user BOOYA who left a comment on this fixture at NEWEGG on 9/16, I hope that the WD15EVDS that "uses 40% less power" will not get too hot in it even without a fan. And he specifically mentioned that he used it with DTV H-DVR.


----------



## Rich

styrum said:


> Just ran froogle. Shipped to Seattle:
> 
> WD10EVDS $104.81 (MacMall)
> WD15EVDS $127.64 (Colamco)
> WD20EDS $211.99 (Buy.com)


WD20EDS or WD20EVDS? I know CC has the WD20EADS for $199.

Rich


----------



## Rich

captainjrl said:


> Just picked up a 2TB EADS from Newegg for $139.


Oh. I gotta check that out. I have an "owned" 20-700 arriving today and I might drop that in. That's a great price. Thanx.

Rich


----------



## Rich

CCarncross said:


> IS there a specific reason for choosing something other than what literally hundreds of others have proven to work flawlessly? (Antec MX-1) Is the $10-$15 more for the MX-1 when its on sale going to kill anyone?


Like talking to a wall, isn't it?

Rich


----------



## Rich

styrum said:


> Just like the user BOOYA who left a comment on this fixture at NEWEGG on 9/16, I hope that the WD15EVDS that "uses 40% less power" will not get too hot in it even without a fan. And he specifically mentioned that he used it with DTV H-DVR.


Used it how? Could you clarify that?

Rich


----------



## styrum

Here exactly what he said:

Pros: It a nicing Looking case, the sata & power connector Sildes into the HD and no cables inside Beside the power cable to turn on the VANTEC CASE, Not sure if this is good or bad( If you Drop it ). Easy to put together.

Cons: Dont like the Blue Light, And No Fan to cool the HD but i bought the new WD1.5TB HD that Uses 40%Less Power Didnt Get That hot... After 8hrs use on My DTV H-DVR... So No complaints really

Other Thoughts: Not Free, What Is?


----------



## styrum

rich584 said:


> WD20EDS or WD20EVDS? I know CC has the WD20EADS for $199.
> 
> Rich


Sorry, WD20EVDS, of course. Here it is at buy.com:

http://www.buy.com/prod/western-dig...ve-2-tb-3-5-internal/q/loc/101/211995469.html


----------



## lwilli201

Just got a WD Caviar Green 1TB 32MB/SATA WD10EADS DH for $69.99 plus $7 shipping from Tigerdirect. I installed it in a NexStar3 enclosure that I had and it does work. We will see how it holds up.


----------



## kylegreen1435

just got the dvr expander did everything i had to now do i have to re program my dvr to record the shows again and if so do i have to do this every time i unplug the hdd from the dvr when i want to watch a show on the enturnal hard drive? thanks in advance kyle


----------



## Rich

styrum said:


> Sorry, WD20EVDS, of course. Here it is at buy.com:
> 
> http://www.buy.com/prod/western-dig...ve-2-tb-3-5-internal/q/loc/101/211995469.html


Kills me to see the difference in price between the 1.5s and the 2TBs. I think the HDD companies are just "milking" us. That's not a bad price compared to the WD20EADS which is still going for $199 all over the Net. Someone said NewEgg had them for $139, but I looked yesterday and they are right back up to $199.

Rich


----------



## Rich

kylegreen1435 said:


> just got the dvr expander did everything i had to now do i have to re program my dvr to record the shows again and if so do i have to do this every time i unplug the hdd from the dvr when i want to watch a show on the enturnal hard drive? thanks in advance kyle


You've got to reprogram your SLs once. After that, the eSATA will retain them. Small price to pay for the extra capacity.

Rich


----------



## turfster

I have been running a 500gb WD hard drive with a Kingwin enclosure for two years now with great results. The WD hard drive is a WD10EACS (Caviar) and the Kingwin is a JT-35EU-BK enclosure. It has run flawlessly since installation and love it. And if I do recall was fairly reasonable cost too.

My question: I would like to increase my drive capacity to 2tb. How can I add a 1.5tb (or 2tb) drive to my existing setup? Obviously I am in to it for a new enclosure to fit two drives inside. But need to know what WD hard drive to buy that will be compatible with my existing drive and what enclosure is able to handle this type of setup? How to piggyback two drives, etc.?

Or maybe someone can tell me how I can purchase a 2tb HD and swap the data onto the new drive? I have far too much important data to simply junk the drive and start form scratch.

Can someone give me some guidance? It would be greatly appreciate and look forward to any help you can give me.

Many thanks.........


----------



## bobneedshelp

I think the hard drive on my current device is having issues. I didn't buy the protection package. What is the lowest cost way that works to add an external drive? Is the Antec MX-1 with a 1TB drive equivalent to what the device comes with? I have an HR20.


----------



## gully_foyle

bobneedshelp said:


> I think the hard drive on my current device is having issues. I didn't buy the protection package. What is the lowest cost way that works to add an external drive? Is the Antec MX-1 with a 1TB drive equivalent to what the device comes with? I have an HR20.


The HR20 comes with something like a 250GB drive. An MX-1 with an appropriate 1TB drive would give much more room. I'd recommend any of the 1TB Western Digitals (had a bad experience with Seagate recently). Being a little more adventurous, I updated my internal HR20 drive a year or so ago to a WD 5900 RPM green 1TB drive -- IMHO a 7200 RPM drive isn't necessary. It holds several hundred hours of HD.


----------



## LameLefty

gully_foyle said:


> The HR20 comes with something like a 250GB drive.


Most have 300GB drives. Some later production models have 320GB drives, as do all HR21 models. HR22 and 23 models have 500GB drives.


----------



## gully_foyle

LameLefty said:


> Most have 300GB drives. Some later production models have 320GB drives, as do all HR21 models. HR22 and 23 models have 500GB drives.


Thanks, couldn't remember the exact number. My point was that a 1TB drive is a big upgrade, rather than "equivalent".


----------



## LameLefty

gully_foyle said:


> Thanks, couldn't remember the exact number. My point was that a 1TB drive is a big upgrade, rather than "equivalent".


Oh definitely! I have an HR21 whose internal drive died a couple months ago. I hooked up a 1TB drive and the increase in usable recording space from ~50 hours of HD to ~200 hours of HD was fantastic.


----------



## bobneedshelp

So what is the most cost effective way to test this out? A new DVR is $199. If I spend $200 on an external drive (with case), I'm not sure this will solve my issue. I don't need more than 1 TB of space.


----------



## GregLee

bobneedshelp said:


> So what is the most cost effective way to test this out? A new DVR is $199. If I spend $200 on an external drive (with case), I'm not sure this will solve my issue. I don't need more than 1 TB of space.


If you can use the 1 Tb of space but the external drive doesn't fix your problem, you can still use the drive with a replacement DVR. You can find a 1 Tb external drive for less than $200. (If your DVR is broken, I don't understand why you'd have to pay $199 for a new one. Can't you get D* to replace yours?)


----------



## turfster

turfster said:


> I have been running a 500gb WD hard drive with a Kingwin enclosure for two years now with great results. The WD hard drive is a WD10EACS (Caviar) and the Kingwin is a JT-35EU-BK enclosure. It has run flawlessly since installation and love it. And if I do recall was fairly reasonable cost too.
> 
> My question: I would like to increase my drive capacity to 2tb. How can I add a 1.5tb (or 2tb) drive to my existing setup? Obviously I am in to it for a new enclosure to fit two drives inside. But need to know what WD hard drive to buy that will be compatible with my existing drive and what enclosure is able to handle this type of setup? How to piggyback two drives, etc.?
> 
> Or maybe someone can tell me how I can purchase a 2tb HD and swap the data onto the new drive? I have far too much important data to simply junk the drive and start form scratch.
> 
> Can someone give me some guidance? It would be greatly appreciate and look forward to any help you can give me.
> 
> Many thanks.........


Nobody's out there that can help me with my question????????


----------



## GregLee

turfster said:


> Nobody's out there that can help me with my question????????


In the General > Information subforum here, there is a tutorial on how to transfer recordings onto a new drive.


----------



## bobneedshelp

I didn't purchase the repair payment package so they won't replace it. If I send it back broken, they want me to pay for it as well. I don't really understand this since it is a lease. I've had it for a few years and it still mostly works. I guess if I put the extra drive on, the worst case is that I can use this for a future DVR if it doesn't resolve the issue. It seems like a lot of extra money for me to purchase a new device, then add an AM21 to get OTA signals and then also have a new extra disk drive. I now have a $450 new DVR in effect by adding the extra equipment.

Has anyone else gotten D* to take back a DVR and replace it without paying monthly insurance?

I read there is a new HR24 coming out soon. Anyone know about the latest on this?


----------



## turfster

GregLee said:


> In the General > Information subforum here, there is a tutorial on how to transfer recordings onto a new drive.


Thank you Greg for your response. Is there a place where you can direct me on how to stack hard drives? I remember when I did this two years ago there were people having two drives in an enclosure, etc. I would want to go that direction if possible rather than a new drive and transferring data.

Thanks


----------



## LameLefty

bobneedshelp said:


> I didn't purchase the repair payment package so they won't replace it. If I send it back broken, they want me to pay for it as well.


That's not true. It's a leased unit; it should be replaced for $29 shipping & handling.


----------



## gamaron

Doug Brott said:


> * Western Digital 500GB (model WDG1S5000)
> * Seagate 500GB (model ST30500SCA109-RK)
> * Western Digital 1TB (model WDG1S10000)
> * [strike]Seagate 1TB (model ST31000SCA109-RK)[/strike]


Why is the Seagate 1TB crossed off in Doug's current list (in the first post in this thread)?

Also: there seems to be at present no supplier carrying either of the 1TB drives (according to google.com/products supplier lists). What's up with that? Any suggestions on where to find stock?


----------



## bobneedshelp

DirecTV is sending me a replacement DVR for the cost of shipping $21. Guess I finally spoke to the right person.

Since I have to redo lists, etc. with the new device, now would be a good time to expand my storage with an Antec MX-1 and drive. The question is, how loud is it? I hate adding ambient noise into the room.


----------



## Rich

gamaron said:


> Why is the Seagate 1TB crossed off in Doug's current list (in the first post in this thread)?
> 
> Also: there seems to be at present no supplier carrying either of the 1TB drives (according to google.com/products supplier lists). What's up with that? Any suggestions on where to find stock?


Originally, D* just copied Seagate's Showcase page which listed recommended DVRs as Dish and Pace and put it on their site. Pace is the manufacturer of the 700 series and I believe there have been problems with the Showcase and the 21 series. I've seen at least one post from a member that couldn't get them/it to work properly. Seagate pulled the page from their website after a call to them about the other makers of D* HRs. D* pulled that page soon after.

Rich


----------



## rsblaski

bobneedshelp said:


> DirecTV is sending me a replacement DVR for the cost of shipping $21. Guess I finally spoke to the right person.
> 
> Since I have to redo lists, etc. with the new device, now would be a good time to expand my storage with an Antec MX-1 and drive. The question is, how loud is it? I hate adding ambient noise into the room.


I'm quite hard of hearing, but given that, I can hear my PS3 when standing by my a/v cabinet. I cannot hear my Antec MX-1 even when I put my ear to it.


----------



## bustert

I am on my second Antec. I sent the first back for a noise issue, a faint kind of buzz from the fan. The second is the same. If it were sitting on my desk it would be annoying but in a cabinet most likely not an issue. Sitting on a counter though, I can hear it 15 feet away. 

I may just do an internal drive swap as per above. And thanks to all those who provided that information.


----------



## lwilli201

I have a WD10EADS, Western Digital Caviar Green Hard Drive in a NexStar3 enclosure. This enclosure does not have a fan so it is very quiet. It is barley warm to the touch. This green hard drive must run cooler than older ones. The HR21-700 located and formatted this drive without any problem. I was prepared for a long formatting process but it took less than a minute to format, or it was already properly formatted.


----------



## bustert

Wonder if I couldn't just unplug the fan in the Antec? Any opinions? Mine is a WD green drive 1.5TB


----------



## CCarncross

Remember that the Antec case is designed as an actively cooled case, especially since its made out of plastic it will not transfer heat away from the drive very well if the fan is disconnected. Many of the fanless cases(passively cooled) are made of some kind of metal which can transfer heat away much better.


----------



## Alan Gordon

Earlier this year, when I decided to buy an external eSATA drive for my HR23-700, I purchased a DirecTV-recommended Seagate ST31000SCA109-RK.

For months, it worked great, but recently I've been having issues. It started off as having issues with the Space Remaining bar, then started having issues with pixelation... particularly on OTA programming. Then came the resets... and finally it wouldn't start up with the external connected.

When this first happened, I let it sit idle for a few days, and hooked it back, and it worked fine... for a day, and I've not been able to repeat this again. 

It does not appear to be an issue with my eSATA cable (that came with the Seagate) as it worked fine for me for months, but rather with the hard drive itself. It's my understanding that the above hard drives have a year's warranty... in which case, I can contact Seagate about a replacement. However, I want to make sure that I'm not missing something that will allow me access to some of the recordings on the drive.

~Alan


----------



## Rich

Alan Gordon said:


> Earlier this year, when I decided to buy an external eSATA drive for my HR23-700, I purchased a DirecTV-recommended Seagate ST31000SCA109-RK.
> 
> For months, it worked great, but recently I've been having issues. It started off as having issues with the Space Remaining bar, then started having issues with pixelation... particularly on OTA programming. Then came the resets... and finally it wouldn't start up with the external connected.
> 
> When this first happened, I let it sit idle for a few days, and hooked it back, and it worked fine... for a day, and I've not been able to repeat this again.
> 
> It does not appear to be an issue with my eSATA cable (that came with the Seagate) as it worked fine for me for months, but rather with the hard drive itself. It's my understanding that the above hard drives have a year's warranty... in which case, I can contact Seagate about a replacement. However, I want to make sure that I'm not missing something that will allow me access to some of the recordings on the drive.
> 
> ~Alan


The best way to troubleshoot is to stick a replacement component in place of what your gut tells you is bad. If that doesn't solve the problem, you've got an issue with the HR itself. Can only be so many things.

Doesn't it seem strange to you that Seagate has at least a three year warranty on all their HDDs? And usually a five year warranty. And yet, the Showcases are only warrantied for a year.

Seagate doesn't seem to have a lot of interest in them. I've spoken to them several times and they just don't seem to care about them. But when I told them I had two Seagate 1.5TB Xtremes working perfectly on my 20-700s, they really perked up.

Problem with the Xtremes is that I don't how they work with a 23-700. And they make a loud whooshing sound that I thought was a fan, but they don't have fans. I did try one on a 21-700 and had problems with it. Put it on a 20-700 (both models made by Pace as is the 23) and it's worked ever since. I did have to get a longer jumper cord and put it thru a wall and I keep the two Xtremes in a large room with a really high ceiling and I don't notice the whooshing sound. If you can do that, I'd recommend an Xtreme. BB sells them and I think they are cheaper than the Showcase for the 1TB model.

But you'll really have to swap the Showcase out for a new one to make sure your problem isn't the 23.

Rich


----------



## Alan Gordon

rich584 said:


> The best way to troubleshoot is to stick a replacement component in place of what your gut tells you is bad. If that doesn't solve the problem, you've got an issue with the HR itself. Can only be so many things.


The HR23-700 is working fine with the internal drive, so unless it's the cable (which I doubt since it's worked fine for months), or the eSATA connection on the HR23-700, I'm going to assume that the HR23 is fine.



rich584 said:


> Doesn't it seem strange to you that Seagate has at least a three year warranty on all their HDDs? And usually a five year warranty. And yet, the Showcases are only warrantied for a year.


Interesting point!



rich584 said:


> I'd recommend an Xtreme. BB sells them and I think they are cheaper than the Showcase for the 1TB model.
> 
> But you'll really have to swap the Showcase out for a new one to make sure your problem isn't the 23.


I don't see an Xtreme listed anywhere on BestBuy, TigerDirect, Newegg, and found some third-party sellers on Amazon and Buy.com (Buy.com were reconditioned drives). I may buy another external soon... perhaps a WD or Iomega's DVR expander.

*EDIT:* Office Depot sells them, but I still may go with one of the above.

I'm still within my year, so I'll contact Seagate this weekend about what to do next... I was just hoping there was some way I might be able to save the programs on it since I'm not completely sure what's wrong with the drive.

~Alan


----------



## Rich

Alan Gordon said:


> The HR23-700 is working fine with the internal drive, so unless it's the cable (which I doubt since it's worked fine for months), or the eSATA connection on the HR23-700, I'm going to assume that the HR23 is fine.


Sounds like the HDD in the eSATA.



> Interesting point!


It is, isn't it? I was very surprised to see the one year warranty. I checked and all my Seagates have five year warranties and Seagate gives you no problems about honoring those warranties. And Seagate tech is located in this country, so you can understand them.



> I don't see an Xtreme listed anywhere on BestBuy, TigerDirect, Newegg, and found some third-party sellers on Amazon and Buy.com (Buy.com were reconditioned drives). I may buy another external soon... perhaps a WD or Iomega's DVR expander.
> 
> *EDIT:* Office Depot sells them, but I still may go with one of the above.
> 
> I'm still within my year, so I'll contact Seagate this weekend about what to do next... I was just hoping there was some way I might be able to save the programs on it since I'm not completely sure what's wrong with the drive.
> 
> ~Alan


There is. *CCarncross* has links on many of his posts that direct you to that info. Just PM him and he'll set you on course for that.

You also might want to consider a larger HDD. I use the 1.5TBs, but if I only had one or two HRs, I'd go with the WD EADS 2TB HDD and an Antec MX-1 enclosure. Don't even consider the 2TB Seagate Barracuda, that's one of the 5900RPM HDDs and you won't be happy with it.

Rich


----------



## ntrance

rich584 said:


> Don't even consider the 2TB Seagate Barracuda, that's one of the 5900RPM HDDs and you won't be happy with it.


I am using the Seagate Barracuda LP ST32000542AS 2 TB 5900 RPM and it works just fine. Where have you seen problems reported for this drive?

Update 2010-01-20
The drive started the click-of-death after a few weeks. Recordings would stutter while the drive was clicking and were hardly watchable. I copied the failing Seagate to a Hitachi Deskstar HD32000 2TB 7200RPM drive and have not yet had any problems with that one.


----------



## Rich

ntrance said:


> I am using the Seagate Barracuda LP ST32000542AS 2 TB 5900 RPM and it works just fine. Where have you seen problems reported for this drive?


On several websites. The reviews reported a "loud squealing sound" or words to that effect. Could have been Newegg, or CC or Amazon or...

Glad to see your's works well. Just checked the prices on them and the WD 2TBs and they are still at $199. Perhaps I shall try one of the Seagates. Got a 20-700 that I have to get a new access card for and I think I'll get the Seagate and give it a try. Thanx for the info. With my luck it won't work right, but I'll give it a try.

Rich


----------



## Alan Gordon

rich584 said:


> I'd go with the WD EADS 2TB HDD and an Antec MX-1 enclosure.


I thought the Antec MX-1 enclosure only supported up to 750gb?

~Alan


----------



## Rich

Alan Gordon said:


> I thought the Antec MX-1 enclosure only supported up to 750gb?
> 
> ~Alan


Good for up to 2TB. Many folks have that setup. Antec just hasn't changed the wording on the website. I run 1.5s without a problem.

Rich


----------



## JohnTSmith

I am using a Thermaltake N0012USU Max 4 enclosure with a WD20EADS 2Terrabyte drive and it is (so far, only installed yesterday) working perfectly


----------



## Rich

JohnTSmith said:


> I am using a Thermaltake N0012USU Max 4 enclosure with a WD20EADS 2Terrabyte drive and it is (so far, only installed yesterday) working perfectly


We all should give the model number of the HRs we are putting these "new to us" enclosures on. Like this: "HR2?-???". That way we'll have some idea which HRs work with what. We've had a lot of incompatibility problems along the way. T'would also be nice to know if the enclosures come with the eSATA to eSATA jumper cable. The prices would help too. And the ease or difficulty of installation.

Rich


----------



## JohnTSmith

HR23-700 installed yesterday afternoon, external drive link http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digit...?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1260725445&sr=1-17

The Thermaltake enclosure came with both eSTATA and USB connectors, I'm using eSATA http://www.amazon.com/Thermaltake-N...3?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1260725545&sr=1-3

External drive install was as easy as following the instructions at DTV... one of their FAQs, I don't have a link, but the question that led to the FAQ was "something like" How do I expand capacity

Unplug DVR
Connect eSATA to back of DVR
Power ON to external drive so it gets ready
Plug in DVR

I did not see ANY messages, but have determined by testing that the external drive is being used


----------



## Rich

JohnTSmith said:


> HR23-700 installed yesterday afternoon, external drive link http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digit...?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1260725445&sr=1-17
> 
> The Thermaltake enclosure came with both eSTATA and USB connectors, I'm using eSATA http://www.amazon.com/Thermaltake-N...3?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1260725545&sr=1-3
> 
> External drive install was as easy as following the instructions at DTV... one of their FAQs, I don't have a link, but the question that led to the FAQ was "something like" How do I expand capacity
> 
> Unplug DVR
> Connect eSATA to back of DVR
> Power ON to external drive so it gets ready
> Plug in DVR
> 
> I did not see ANY messages, but have determined by testing that the external drive is being used


Huh. Every time I put a new HDD on an HR, I get a message that says "formatting storage device" (words to that effect). It is up only briefly, you might have missed it.

Let us know in a few days how you like it.

Rich


----------



## Rich

JohnTSmith said:


> HR23-700 installed yesterday afternoon, external drive link http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digit...?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1260725445&sr=1-17
> 
> The Thermaltake enclosure came with both eSTATA and USB connectors, I'm using eSATA http://www.amazon.com/Thermaltake-N...3?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1260725545&sr=1-3
> 
> External drive install was as easy as following the instructions at DTV... one of their FAQs, I don't have a link, but the question that led to the FAQ was "something like" How do I expand capacity
> 
> Unplug DVR
> Connect eSATA to back of DVR
> Power ON to external drive so it gets ready
> Plug in DVR
> 
> I did not see ANY messages, but have determined by testing that the external drive is being used


I just read the reviews from your link on the enclosure. I've never had any luck with upright HDD mounts. I never have problems with enclosures that lay flat on the floor. It kinda looks like you could lay yours flat on a rug or shelf. The diagram doesn't show any air flow from the one side that I presume is the bottom when laying flat.

That looks like a nice enclosure. Good luck. Let us know how you like it.

Rich


----------



## captainjrl

Alan Gordon said:


> I thought the Antec MX-1 enclosure only supported up to 750gb?
> 
> ~Alan


Running a 2TB WD green drive now for some time with no issues (knock on wood)


----------



## Rich

captainjrl said:


> Running a 2TB WD green drive now for some time with no issues (knock on wood)


Kinda makes you wonder if Antec realizes how goopd (sic) a product they have, doesn't it?

Rich


----------



## Johnny Canal

Installed a 1tb WD10EADS in a Antec MX-1 yesterday on my HR20-700

seems to work great

thanks for all the good information on what to get


----------



## Rich

JohnTSmith said:


> HR23-700 installed yesterday afternoon, external drive link http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digit...?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1260725445&sr=1-17
> 
> The Thermaltake enclosure came with both eSTATA and USB connectors, I'm using eSATA http://www.amazon.com/Thermaltake-N...3?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1260725545&sr=1-3
> 
> External drive install was as easy as following the instructions at DTV... one of their FAQs, I don't have a link, but the question that led to the FAQ was "something like" How do I expand capacity
> 
> Unplug DVR
> Connect eSATA to back of DVR
> Power ON to external drive so it gets ready
> Plug in DVR
> 
> I did not see ANY messages, but have determined by testing that the external drive is being used


Here's the _*link*_ to some of the reviews I read. From the same site you bought it from.

I've read similar reviews from other sites.

Rich


----------



## markb

My wife bought me a WD 1.5tb My Book for X-mas. I have a HR20-100...I haven't hooked it up yet. Would I be wasting my time? I read in some earlier threads that it's incompatible. Have there been any updates that fix the problem?


----------



## Rich

markb said:


> My wife bought me a WD 1.5tb My Book for X-mas. I have a HR20-100...I haven't hooked it up yet. Would I be wasting my time? I read in some earlier threads that it's incompatible. Have there been any updates that fix the problem?


As far as I know, nobody has ever been able to get the My Book eSATAs to work with the 20s. I tried with a 20-700 when they first came out and it wouldn't work. Called WD and was told that the My Book series would not work with any DVR. Don't know how true that is, since I've read several posts about people getting them to work with the 21s. Not much follow up on those posts tho. So, yeah, I think you'd be wasting your time. Better to buy a bare SATA 1.5TB HDD and stick it into an Antec MX-1 enclosure. That should work. Probably cheaper too. Easy to install the HDD in the enclosure.

Rich


----------



## Flybyair

markb said:


> My wife bought me a WD 1.5tb My Book for X-mas. I have a HR20-100...I haven't hooked it up yet. Would I be wasting my time? I read in some earlier threads that it's incompatible. Have there been any updates that fix the problem?


I have a WD 1.5tb My Book and it works fine on my HR22 100
Had to conect to a computer and remove the partitons that were on it from the factory then hook it to my HR22 and it reformated and works great.


----------



## markb

Flybyair said:


> I have a WD 1.5tb My Book and it works fine on my HR22 100
> Had to conect to a computer and remove the partitons that were on it from the factory then hook it to my HR22 and it reformated and works great.


Well you have an HR22, not the HR20, but it's worth a shot I guess. How do you remove the partitions in the MyBook??


----------



## Rich

markb said:


> Well you have an HR22, not the HR20, but it's worth a shot I guess. How do you remove the partitions in the MyBook??


Like I said earlier, some folks seem to have gotten the My Books to work with 21s and a 22 or 23 is a modified 21. I'd be really interested if you can get that to work on the 20-100. Please tell us how you made out. As far as I know, nobody's ever been able to get one to work on a 20-700 or a 20-100.

Rich


----------



## Flybyair

markb said:


> Well you have an HR22, not the HR20, but it's worth a shot I guess. How do you remove the partitions in the MyBook??


I just plugged in the USB from the drive and right clicked the drive in My Computer and went to format, I saw it had 3 partitions and told it to remove them. I did not reformat just let the HR22 do it.
XP op system


----------



## Rich

Flybyair said:


> I just plugged in the USB from the drive and right clicked the drive in My Computer and went to format, I saw it had 3 partitions and told it to remove them. I did not reformat just let the HR22 do it.
> XP op system


Did you try the My Book eSATA on the 22-100 before doing that? From what you're saying, it might have worked without you doing anything.

Rich


----------



## jschuman

Quick question:
Are these 2 the same drives?
http://www.amazon.com/WD-Caviar-Green-Hard-Drive/dp/B0013FVZWI/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

and

http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digit...1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1264175211&sr=1-1

Any reason NOT to get the retail version?


----------



## GrantHaab

Hmmmm. I tried connecting a WD Caviar Green 2TB inside an Antec MX-1 using ESATA. The first time, it formatted fine and started working. Several times the picture just froze up, then continued about 20 seconds later when watching (and recording) live TV. The last time, my HR20-700 Receiver rebooted and went to the internal drive. The next time I got it to reboot using the external drive, it gave me the bad storage device error and rebooted instead to the internal. Any idea what I should try next? I see that others seem to have gotten this combination to work, but so far, I've had no luck. Note that I didn't partition or format the drive at all, just installed in the MX-1 and plugged it in according to directions posted on this thread from DirecTV. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks.


----------



## GrantHaab

GrantHaab said:


> Hmmmm. I tried connecting a WD Caviar Green 2TB inside an Antec MX-1 using ESATA. The first time, it formatted fine and started working. Several times the picture just froze up, then continued about 20 seconds later when watching (and recording) live TV. The last time, my HR20-700 Receiver rebooted and went to the internal drive. The next time I got it to reboot using the external drive, it gave me the bad storage device error and rebooted instead to the internal. Any idea what I should try next? I see that others seem to have gotten this combination to work, but so far, I've had no luck. Note that I didn't partition or format the drive at all, just installed in the MX-1 and plugged it in according to directions posted on this thread from DirecTV. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Many thanks.


BTW, I've done this with 3 other drives and 3 HR 20s. The other drives were 1 or 1.5 TB Caviar Greens. Perhaps I got a bad drive? Is there any way I can tell for sure before exchanging it? Thanks again!


----------



## Rich

GrantHaab said:


> BTW, I've done this with 3 other drives and 3 HR 20s. The other drives were 1 or 1.5 TB Caviar Greens. Perhaps I got a bad drive? Is there any way I can tell for sure before exchanging it? Thanks again!


Easier to exchange it. I've had problems with the WD drives on 20-700s. Gave up and switched to Seagates.

Rich


----------



## GregLee

jschuman said:


> Quick question:
> Are these 2 the same drives?
> http://www.amazon.com/WD-Caviar-Green-Hard-Drive/dp/B0013FVZWI/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
> 
> and
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digit...1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1264175211&sr=1-1
> 
> Any reason NOT to get the retail version?


The first, WD5000CSRTL, has a 16MB cache, while the second, WD5000AADS, has a 32MB cache.


----------



## GrantHaab

rich584 said:


> Easier to exchange it. I've had problems with the WD drives on 20-700s. Gave up and switched to Seagates.
> 
> Rich


Maybe. I bought it from BB and they only had one 100 miles away in stock, so I had to order it. My current plan is to swap enclosures with another drive and see if the drive or the enclosure is at fault. If it is the drive, I'll exchange it, but I just would like some confirmation that 2TB drives actually work with the HR20-700s. Does anyone have a 2TB drive they got working with an HR20-700? If so, I'd like to find out what the model name is.

Rich,

What other problems have you had with WD? I noticed you said something in an earlier post about vertical HDD enclosures causing problems. Any others? My other three WD/HR20 combos have been working flawlessly for 6 months - 2 years now.


----------



## jschuman

GregLee said:


> The first, WD5000CSRTL, has a 16MB cache, while the second, WD5000AADS, has a 32MB cache.


Thank you. So if my intention is to stick one of these in the Antec MX-1 enclosure for use with my HR20, the bare drive (WD5000AADS) is the way to go?


----------



## CCarncross

jschuman said:


> Thank you. So if my intention is to stick one of these in the Antec MX-1 enclosure for use with my HR20, the bare drive (WD5000AADS) is the way to go?


If it helps any, at least for a data point, the only drives I have ever used and swear by in these units are the EADS models.....like here:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...50014 50001306 103530090&name=Western Digital

One poster here has tried an EARS model and is not having good luck with it.


----------



## Rich

GrantHaab said:


> Maybe. I bought it from BB and they only had one 100 miles away in stock, so I had to order it. My current plan is to swap enclosures with another drive and see if the drive or the enclosure is at fault. If it is the drive, I'll exchange it, but I just would like some confirmation that 2TB drives actually work with the HR20-700s. Does anyone have a 2TB drive they got working with an HR20-700? If so, I'd like to find out what the model name is.


I had a Cavalry RAID box set to give me the full 2TBs of capacity running for over a year on one of my 20-700s so I know that they will work with them. The problem seems to be compatibility. That Cavalry was one of two I purchased, both set for full 2TB capacity. One went south in a couple months and the other one lasted well over a year until the DLB NR wrecked it. I don't recommend Cavalrys and wouldn't buy another one. I was amazed at how well the one worked and I filled it up several times with no problems.

The only drives I've had no problems using on the 20-700s are Seagates and they only make a 2TB Barracuda with a spindle speed of 5900RPM. That HDD gets terrible reviews. I've had Seagates in MX-1s for quite a while and had no problems with them. I use the Barracuda 7200RPM 1.5TB HDDs.

I own five 20-700s and all have those 1.5s in them and run quite well as internal drives. The two Antecs I have those same Seagates in are trouble free too.

I've been tempted to try the 2TB WD EADS in one of the 20-700s as an internal drive, but I'm a little leery of WDs and the 20-700s. I did have one 1.5TB WD EADS working in an Antec for less than a month and that was wrecked by the DLB NR too. Exchanged it for a Seagate and it has been working perfectly since.



> What other problems have you had with WD? I noticed you said something in an earlier post about vertical HDD enclosures causing problems. Any others? My other three WD/HR20 combos have been working flawlessly for 6 months - 2 years now.


I had a lot of problems with them on SD TiVos. So you have to factor that bias into how I feel about WD drives. I've only tried the one on the 20-700s and while all my Seagates made it thru the DLB NR, that one WD didn't. I wasn't surprised that the Cavalry failed, but I didn't expect the WD to fail. Haven't tried one since.

As to the vertical enclosures, I bought eight 750G Cavalry eSATAs over a time period of a couple months back in early 2007 and all failed but one. They came with stands so I mounted them on the stands. I finally called Cavalry up when they got new models in the stores and asked them how they should be mounted. Flat on the floor or shelf was the reply. I was told that to mount them vertically would cause problems. I just got rid of a 750 Cav that ran very well for over a year. I had to put rubber pads under it to stop the vibration noises, but with them, it was quiet and dependable and would work with any model of HR.

But, Cavalry was bought out by another company and seems to have disappeared. Can't get phone support for them anymore, have to do it by email.

In short, all my Seagate HDDs work, internally or externally on all my 20-700s and 21-700s, very well and I see no reason to try another brand, just as I see no reason to try another enclosure other than the Antec MX-1.

With a 20-700, if I wanted a 2TB setup, I think I'd try a RAID enclosure with two 1TB HDDs in it and the enclosure set to give you the full 2TBs of capacity.

Hope this helps,

Rich


----------



## GregLee

jschuman said:


> Thank you. So if my intention is to stick one of these in the Antec MX-1 enclosure for use with my HR20, the bare drive (WD5000AADS) is the way to go?


I guess so. I don't recall seeing any comments about how these 500GB drives work with HR2x boxes. The WD5000AADS drive appears to be in the same model line that I and others have had success with for larger capacity drives.


----------



## GrantHaab

rich584 said:


> ... That Cavalry was one of two I purchased, both set for full 2TB capacity. One went south in a couple months and the other one lasted well over a year until the DLB NR wrecked it.
> Rich


At the risk of sounding like a newbie, what is DLB NR? Dolby Noise Reduction? If you know what that means, then you're getting old too.



rich584 said:


> I own five 20-700s and all have those 1.5s in them and run quite well as internal drives. The two Antecs I have those same Seagates in are trouble free too.
> 
> I've been tempted to try the 2TB WD EADS in one of the 20-700s as an internal drive, but I'm a little leery of WDs and the 20-700s. I did have one 1.5TB WD EADS working in an Antec for less than a month and that was wrecked by the DLB NR too. Exchanged it for a Seagate and it has been working perfectly since.


I've had no problems yet with my 3 WD EADS/HR-20 systems, but I still may down the road. I will probably find out during the 2010 Olympics if it is going to fail due to factory defects since I should be filling it up by then.

As for the current problem, it appears to be the eSATA interface in the Antec MX-1 that is at fault. I swapped MX-1's and the 2 TB WD EADS seems to work great now. Even though these are dual-speed drives (5400/7200 rpm), I don't seem to have problems with them even when recording two HD programs and watching a third from the drive. This is my third MX-1 with problems however. One had a fan that died within 6 months; another was just DOA (would not power on); and of course the last problem I mention just above.



rich584 said:


> As to the vertical enclosures, I bought eight 750G Cavalry eSATAs over a time period of a couple months back in early 2007 and all failed but one. They came with stands so I mounted them on the stands. I finally called Cavalry up when they got new models in the stores and asked them how they should be mounted. Flat on the floor or shelf was the reply. I was told that to mount them vertically would cause problems. I just got rid of a 750 Cav that ran very well for over a year. I had to put rubber pads under it to stop the vibration noises, but with them, it was quiet and dependable and would work with any model of HR.
> Rich


I found a similar warning about not "standing the drive on edge" in the WD instructions. But I wasn't sure if they meant after it was mounted or before so it wouldn't tip over and cause damage if it fell over. Now it seems clear it is probably a bad idea to mount them veritically.



rich584 said:


> In short, all my Seagate HDDs work, internally or externally on all my 20-700s and 21-700s, very well and I see no reason to try another brand, just as I see no reason to try another enclosure other than the Antec MX-1.
> ...
> Hope this helps,
> Rich


Yes, your response helped me very much. Although I'm sort of ambivalent about the MX-1 failure rate I've experienced, I don't see a better alternative. Same goes for the 2TB WD EADS drive, which I got for $180 at BB on-line. It's hard to beat 2TB of HD DVR storage for $230 plus 10 minutes of labor with a screw driver. (Unless it doesn't work, of course.)

Thanks for all the great info! I'll keep you posted on the situation with the 2TB WD EADS


----------



## Rich

GrantHaab said:


> At the risk of sounding like a newbie, what is DLB NR? Dolby Noise Reduction? If you know what that means, then you're getting old too.


That was the NR before 368, which we have now. That's when I began having problems with all my HRs. If I watch a movie that was recorded before the DLB NR I get no A/V dropouts at all. I do know what DNR is. We had that on our ship when I was in the Navy. I used to work with Sonarmen a lot and stood many Sonar watches. The audio system was incredible and it was all based on DNR. You could actually "watch" whales come and go thru the earphones. Don't know whether I said that right, but I could always tell which way they were going just by listening.



> I've had no problems yet with my 3 WD EADS/HR-20 systems, but I still may down the road. I will probably find out during the 2010 Olympics if it is going to fail due to factory defects since I should be filling it up by then.


You probably won't have any problems with them if they are working well now.



> As for the current problem, it appears to be the eSATA interface in the Antec MX-1 that is at fault. I swapped MX-1's and the 2 TB WD EADS seems to work great now. Even though these are dual-speed drives (5400/7200 rpm), I don't seem to have problems with them even when recording two HD programs and watching a third from the drive. This is my third MX-1 with problems however. One had a fan that died within 6 months; another was just DOA (would not power on); and of course the last problem I mention just above.


Huh. Even with my terrible luck, I've never had a problem with an Antec.



> I found a similar warning about not "standing the drive on edge" in the WD instructions. But I wasn't sure if they meant after it was mounted or before so it wouldn't tip over and cause damage if it fell over. Now it seems clear it is probably a bad idea to mount them veritically.


That's one of those things that I don't understand. Why do they send you mounts to put the HDDs vertical if it's not good for them? My two Seagate 1.5TB Xtremes came with those stands too and when I called Seagate and talked to a tech, he told me to lay them flat too. They've both been running for quite a while without any problems. I did have to put rubber cushions under them, tho.

I did forget to mention one 1.5TB EADS that I bought, installed in one of my owned 20-700s and it made so much noise I quickly returned it to Amazon and got a Seagate Barracuda. I do admit to having terrible luck. 



> Yes, your response helped me very much. Although I'm sort of ambivalent about the MX-1 failure rate I've experienced, I don't see a better alternative. Same goes for the 2TB WD EADS drive, which I got for $180 at BB on-line. It's hard to beat 2TB of HD DVR storage for $230 plus 10 minutes of labor with a screw driver. (Unless it doesn't work, of course.)
> 
> Thanks for all the great info! I'll keep you posted on the situation with the 2TB WD EADS


Great. I'd be interested to see how you make out. Before next season I intend to drop a 2TB EADS in one of my 20-700s and just give it a try. I know they work very well in 23-700s, but I don't recall anyone using one as an internal in a 20-700.

Rich


----------



## GrantHaab

rich584 said:


> That was the NR before 368, which we have now. That's when I began having problems with all my HRs. If I watch a movie that was recorded before the DLB NR I get no A/V dropouts at all.


Ahhh. I experienced exactly the same thing from my three HR20-700s and one HR21. I thought my multiswitch was giving out or something, but a bad software update makes a lot more sense. Thanks for explaining.



rich584 said:


> Great. I'd be interested to see how you make out. Before next season I intend to drop a 2TB EADS in one of my 20-700s and just give it a try. I know they work very well in 23-700s, but I don't recall anyone using one as an internal in a 20-700.


Sounds interesting! I haven't tried swapping the internal drive in the HR20's yet, but I assume it isn't difficult. I spent 9.5 years of college/graduate school in electrical/computer engineering, so I think I can handle it. Let me know how it goes!

As for bad luck: I just exchanged my Moto Droid since it went into an infinite reboot cycle 31 days after I bought it. Now I have to configure it all over again and redownload all the free Apps. Sigh...


----------



## Rich

GrantHaab said:


> Ahhh. I experienced exactly the same thing from my three HR20-700s and one HR21. I thought my multiswitch was giving out or something, but a bad software update makes a lot more sense. Thanks for explaining.


All that stuff happened to me right after that NR, so I had a pretty good idea what the cause was. 12 HDDs don't suddenly go bad or become "marginal" at the same time.



> Sounds interesting! I haven't tried swapping the internal drive in the HR20's yet, but I assume it isn't difficult. I spent 9.5 years of college/graduate school in electrical/computer engineering, so I think I can handle it. Let me know how it goes!


Friend of mine has the 2TB WD working in his owned 23, so I know they will work on that model. Don't know what to expect with a 20-700. Not as easy as you might think to change internals. Takes about an hour the first time. PM me with questions if you ever decide to do it.



> As for bad luck: I just exchanged my Moto Droid since it went into an infinite reboot cycle 31 days after I bought it. Now I have to configure it all over again and redownload all the free Apps. Sigh...


I just bought an OOMA to replace my landline telephone service and that's got a nasty learning curve. Got to the point a couple times where I was gonna give up, but finally got it working. Saves us about $800 to $900 a year.

Rich


----------



## GrantHaab

rich584 said:


> All that stuff happened to me right after that NR, so I had a pretty good idea what the cause was. 12 HDDs don't suddenly go bad or become "marginal" at the same time.


Any problem with NR 0x395 that happened early this morning w.r.t. your systems? I'm playing with the multi-room beta now that came with the that update, but apparently I need a wired network connection to get it to work acceptably. Dual-band 802.11n doesn't seem to work for me for high-def programs. There just isn't enough throughput to keep the stream from pausing every couple of seconds.


----------



## harsh

GrantHaab said:


> I'm playing with the multi-room beta now that came with the that update, but apparently I need a wired network connection to get it to work acceptably. Dual-band 802.11n doesn't seem to work for me for high-def programs.


You should test a wired network first. There may be something non-network related preventing satisfactory HD performance.


----------



## CCarncross

GrantHaab said:


> Any problem with NR 0x395 that happened early this morning w.r.t. your systems? I'm playing with the multi-room beta now that came with the that update, but apparently I need a wired network connection to get it to work acceptably. Dual-band 802.11n doesn't seem to work for me for high-def programs. There just isn't enough throughput to keep the stream from pausing every couple of seconds.


I'm getting near flawless performance over g watching HD so there has got to be something wrong at your place.


----------



## Rich

GrantHaab said:


> Any problem with NR 0x395 that happened early this morning w.r.t. your systems? I'm playing with the multi-room beta now that came with the that update, but apparently I need a wired network connection to get it to work acceptably. Dual-band 802.11n doesn't seem to work for me for high-def programs. There just isn't enough throughput to keep the stream from pausing every couple of seconds.


Don't see any differences yet. I only watch recorded shows and I did record a movie yesterday to see if it still had the A/V dropouts in it, but haven't had a chance to watch it yet.

Haven't tried the MRV and probably won't. I don't see the need for it. I have a couple rooms wired so that I can use HRs that are not in those rooms with the remotes in RF.

Rich


----------



## f91

Our HR22-100 wouldn't reboot. Error code 14-375. We have a 1 TB "my DVR Extender" that has worked flawlessly. D* syas that's a fatal error. We get the new-refurbished HR22-100 and I expect the external HD to be wiped clean by the new formatting, but the old recordings seem to still be there.Names and HD space usage intact. The problem is, these recordings were associated with a now-deactivated card and when I try to access them, I get an error code stating that the recordings won't play because they are associated with a deactivated card.

2 Questions:
Is it worth a try to attempt to reactivate the old card and see if the old stuff will still work(making the wife VERY happy) or do I delete the existing stuff because it will never work?
Lastly, any info on the cause of the error code would be great, seems like it happened with the new software rollout. I've cracked the case on my older receivers and there isn't a part in there that I couldn't change out.
Thanks in advance. I've been a lurker for a long time. This is the place to get answers.


----------



## CCarncross

f91 said:


> Our HR22-100 wouldn't reboot. Error code 14-375. We have a 1 TB "my DVR Extender" that has worked flawlessly. D* syas that's a fatal error. We get the new-refurbished HR22-100 and I expect the external HD to be wiped clean by the new formatting, but the old recordings seem to still be there.Names and HD space usage intact. The problem is, these recordings were associated with a now-deactivated card and when I try to access them, I get an error code stating that the recordings won't play because they are associated with a deactivated card.
> 
> 2 Questions:
> Is it worth a try to attempt to reactivate the old card and see if the old stuff will still work(making the wife VERY happy) or do I delete the existing stuff because it will never work?
> Lastly, any info on the cause of the error code would be great, seems like it happened with the new software rollout. I've cracked the case on my older receivers and there isn't a part in there that I couldn't change out.
> Thanks in advance. I've been a lurker for a long time. This is the place to get answers.


Shows can only be watched on the DVR they were recorded on, sorry. Most likely your drive didnt survive the reboot of the device. 99 times out of 100 its not the new software rollout that screws up the drive, its a power outage or reboot of the dvr that has to occur after the new firmware hits the receiver. People tend to blame it on the new software, but that is rarely the case, no matter how many people want to claim that it is. Do you have your external drive on a UPS? That way the drive technically never loses power.

Here is the other thing. People seem to add "has worked flawlessly in the past", well, guess what, thats how electronics work, they work flawlessly then they fail....


----------



## f91

I should have stated: My DVR extender still works absolutely fine. Recorded new stuff and watched. No issues. The fatal error comes from the DTV hardware. I tried a reboot without the external HD connected and still nothing. If the error code 14-375 means bad DTV hard drive, that's an easy fix. I just need to know...


----------



## pmisra08

First post on the board. Thanks for all the help all of you have provided on a number of topics.

Well, I finally took the plunge and ordered the WD 2TB Green Caviar (WD20EADS) with the Antec MX-1 case. I have a couple of questions.

Do I need to purchase any cables other than a eSATA cable to connect the device to my DVR? from what I understand it comes with all of the internal cable hookups.

Is there a link for step-by-step installation instructions for the drive and case?

Are there any known issues with the HR-21/200? I have not seen this DVR mentioned too often. 

Thanks for the help.


----------



## CCarncross

pmisra08 said:


> First post on the board. Thanks for all the help all of you have provided on a number of topics.
> 
> Well, I finally took the plunge and ordered the WD 2TB Green Caviar (WD20EADS) with the Antec MX-1 case. I have a couple of questions.
> 
> Do I need to purchase any cables other than a eSATA cable to connect the device to my DVR? from what I understand it comes with all of the internal cable hookups.
> 
> Is there a link for step-by-step installation instructions for the drive and case?
> 
> Are there any known issues with the HR-21/200? I have not seen this DVR mentioned too often.
> 
> Thanks for the help.


Install drive in case, do a restart receiver, when it goes dark, pull the power plug on your HR. Attach the new external drive via the eSATA cable , connect the MX-1 power, power the drive up, wait about 30 secs, plug the HR back in. Thats all there is to it. If you are unsure how to install the drive in the MX-1, or connect it to your DVR, call a friend that is good with computers.


----------



## Rich

pmisra08 said:


> First post on the board. Thanks for all the help all of you have provided on a number of topics.
> 
> Well, I finally took the plunge and ordered the WD 2TB Green Caviar (WD20EADS) with the Antec MX-1 case. I have a couple of questions.
> 
> Do I need to purchase any cables other than a eSATA cable to connect the device to my DVR? from what I understand it comes with all of the internal cable hookups.
> 
> Is there a link for step-by-step installation instructions for the drive and case?
> 
> Are there any known issues with the HR-21/200? I have not seen this DVR mentioned too often.
> 
> Thanks for the help.


My son has had a 21-200 in his room for quite a while. This is the second one he's had. The first one started smoking and we got it replaced by the Case Management Group and the replacement (which was new, never activated) has been running faultlessly. The 21-200 is made by Samsung and is more expensive to build and you don't see too many of them. From the few comments I've seen about them, they are a very good HR. From our experience, discounting the one that started smoking (things happen), it is a solid HR.

You will find that the instructions for the Antec MX-1 are in "pictographic" form. I had to study the instructions for a little while until they made sense to me. Once I understood what went where, it was a breeze and is now a fifteen minute job.

Rich


----------



## pmisra08

CCarncross, thanks for the step-by-step run through.

rich584, That is a relief regarding the DVR. I am glad to hear it is a steady unit. Thanks for the info.

From what you both said the only other item I would need to purchase is an eSATA cable. I belive neither the WD drive or the Antec case is hipped with one, correct?

Thanks again


----------



## CCarncross

Sorry, the eSATA cable comes with the MX-1...it actually comes with USB and eSATA cables, of course you can only use the eSATA connection if you want to hook it to your DVR...


----------



## Rich

pmisra08 said:


> CCarncross, thanks for the step-by-step run through.
> 
> rich584, That is a relief regarding the DVR. I am glad to hear it is a steady unit. Thanks for the info.
> 
> From what you both said the only other item I would need to purchase is an eSATA cable. I belive neither the WD drive or the Antec case is hipped with one, correct?
> 
> Thanks again


The only eSATAs or enclosures I've bought that don't have the eSATA jumper cable are the Seagates. For anybody interested, the SIIG jumper cables seem to work with all of them.

Rich


----------



## f91

Don't want to be a pest, but if ANYONE knows what causes a 14-375 error code on the HR22-100, Please let me know.


----------



## ansdofuno

Some people have claimed that after upgrading their hard drive they got a noticeable speedup (faster menu display, guide navigation, etc.) What kind of hard drive did you use?

I just upgraded my HR20-700 to use a WD20EADS but it doesn't seem much faster at all. I'm wondering whether I should switch to a 7200 rpm hard drive. I know they're louder, but that's not an issue for me.

Thanks!


----------



## Rich

f91 said:


> Don't want to be a pest, but if ANYONE knows what causes a 14-375 error code on the HR22-100, Please let me know.


Have patience.


----------



## f91

Rich- Will do.
BTW- With the 1TB DVR Extender, we noticed a marked improvement in our guide response time. 
I also second that the MX-1 comes with a sata cable.
I can also confirm that previous recordings, while still on the hard drive, cannot be accessed by a different receiver (yet!).


----------



## Rich

f91 said:


> Rich- Will do.
> BTW- With the 1TB DVR Extender, we noticed a marked improvement in our guide response time.
> I also second that the MX-1 comes with a sata cable.





> I can also confirm that previous recordings, while still on the hard drive, cannot be accessed by a different receiver (yet!).


That's normal, the eSATAs recordings are "married" to the HR that they were recorded on. Don't know whether MRV will cure that or not.

Rich


----------



## Rich

f91 said:


> Rich- Will do.
> BTW- With the 1TB DVR Extender, we noticed a marked improvement in our guide response time.
> I also second that the MX-1 comes with a sata cable.
> I can also confirm that previous recordings, while still on the hard drive, cannot be accessed by a different receiver (yet!).


There's a member that says he can tell you what all the error messages mean. You might want to PM him. Try "RobertE". That's his user name.

Rich


----------



## f91

PM sent


----------



## lgb0250

Just installed a Fantom 2TB external drive on my HR23 a couple of days ago and it seems to work perfectly (almost). I had it located in the entertainment cabinet with my audio receiver and the HR23. Problem is that it kept making noise while doing its thing. Not an appreciable amount of noise, just enough to be slightly annoying. Took it out of the cabinet and no appreciable difference.

My question is has anyone come up with any unique way to quiet or buffer these things? Thanks.


----------



## Rich

lgb0250 said:


> Just installed a Fantom 2TB external drive on my HR23 a couple of days ago and it seems to work perfectly (almost). I had it located in the entertainment cabinet with my audio receiver and the HR23. Problem is that it kept making noise while doing its thing. Not an appreciable amount of noise, just enough to be slightly annoying. Took it out of the cabinet and no appreciable difference.
> 
> My question is has anyone come up with any unique way to quiet or buffer these things? Thanks.


Such a simple question. And no real answer. 

Rich


----------



## CCarncross

lgb0250 said:


> My question is has anyone come up with any unique way to quiet or buffer these things? Thanks.


Maybe the Fantoms are just noisy, typically the MX-1 and WD drive combos are virtually silent, I'm running 3 of them and you have to put your ear to them to hear the drives or the fans.

Anyone that has been using one for a year or more, you do need to shut it down and clean it every once in awhile, just like your PC the does get some dust built up in it unless you live in a clean room environment. I have a pretty old house so I have to dust it about every 6 months, just like my PCs.


----------



## Rich

f91 said:


> PM sent


Don't forget to let us know what it means! 

Rich


----------



## AntonyB

This thread is enormous and spans a considerable period of time, so I'm looking for the latest thoughts on the "best" solution for an eSATA drive.

The D* website on this subject now only recommends the two WD MyDVRs, but the 1TB is essentially unavailable at this time. So I am thinking of rolling my own, with an enclosure + drive. It seems that the MX-1 is still the preferred enclosure. What about the preferred 1 or 1.5 TB drive today? Are the Western Digital Green drives rated highly? Don't these spin down after some period of inactivity and does that present any problems? 

Is the Western Digital 1.5 TB Caviar Green SATA Intellipower 32 MB WD15EADS favored? Are the WD Caviar Black any better for this application?

How about the Western Digital 1.5 TB Caviar Green SATA Intellipower 64 MB WD15EARS ? Bigger cache, but I have read some things about the EARS models that make me question their compatibility.

My priorities are quiet operation (both low rotational/fan noise and also low head activity noise since I expect the hard drive "indexing"/thrashing to persist), and reliability. I have an HR20-700.

Thanks for your input.


----------



## f91

Still no answer, just conjecture at this point. Bet your arse, when I find out, I'll let everyone know!!



rich584 said:


> Don't forget to let us know what it means!
> 
> Rich


----------



## Rich

AntonyB said:


> This thread is enormous and spans a considerable period of time, so I'm looking for the latest thoughts on the "best" solution for an eSATA drive.
> 
> The D* website on this subject now only recommends the two WD MyDVRs, but the 1TB is essentially unavailable at this time. So I am thinking of rolling my own, with an enclosure + drive. It seems that the MX-1 is still the preferred enclosure. What about the preferred 1 or 1.5 TB drive today? Are the Western Digital Green drives rated highly? Don't these spin down after some period of inactivity and does that present any problems?
> 
> Is the Western Digital 1.5 TB Caviar Green SATA Intellipower 32 MB WD15EADS favored? Are the WD Caviar Black any better for this application?
> 
> How about the Western Digital 1.5 TB Caviar Green SATA Intellipower 64 MB WD15EARS ? Bigger cache, but I have read some things about the EARS models that make me question their compatibility.
> 
> My priorities are quiet operation (both low rotational/fan noise and also low head activity noise since I expect the hard drive "indexing"/thrashing to persist), and reliability. I have an HR20-700.
> 
> Thanks for your input.


I've not had any luck with the WD EADS using my 20-700s. One got whacked by an NR, another was noisy and I had another one that I returned, but I can't remember why at the moment. All 1.5s in Antec cases or internally on sets that I own.

I've read some bad reviews on the EARS models of WD HDDs too. Enough to keep me from buying one.

I can tell you this, the 20-700s work well with Seagate Barracudas. I've got 1.5TB Xtreme eSATAs, Seagates in MX-1 enclosures and five internally on my owned 20-700s. All work flawlessly. Just make sure that the Cuda has a spindle speed of 7200RPMs rather than the 5900RPM models. The 5900s get terrible reviews.

Rich


----------



## AntonyB

rich584 said:


> I've not had any luck with the WD EADS using my 20-700s. One got whacked by an NR, another was noisy and I had another one that I returned, but I can't remember why at the moment. All 1.5s in Antec cases or internally on sets that I own.
> 
> I've read some bad reviews on the EARS models of WD HDDs too. Enough to keep me from buying one.
> 
> I can tell you this, the 20-700s work well with Seagate Barracudas. I've got 1.5TB Xtreme eSATAs, Seagates in MX-1 enclosures and five internally on my owned 20-700s. All work flawlessly. Just make sure that the Cuda has a spindle speed of 7200RPMs rather than the 5900RPM models. The 5900s get terrible reviews.
> 
> Rich


Thanks very much Rich for the input on this, just what I was looking for.

Other opinions are welcomed....


----------



## lgb0250

What a day.

I had read all the post about how the Fantom external HD's were not rated very well. Naturally it was after I had already purchased a 2TB one for my new D* setup.

Stupid thing was really noisy, both inside the entertainment center and even more so when I moved it outside the center. Thought about just going back to the internal one that came with my HR23-700. Then I thought about everything I had already recorded and I started researching more post on this site and came up with two threads. One about how to replace the drive of an external HD and one about replacing the HD on the HR23.

Made my day. The whole process took about an hour and that included the time to unhook the HR23 and get it out of the entertainment cabinet. Didn't worry about breaking any seals since the warranty is only good for 90 days anyway. HR23 came apart very easy and really a simple straight forward transfer of the 2TB to inside the HR23. Kept all my recordings and timers with no problem.

The most hilarious thing struck me when I took the Fantom apart. Inside the enclosure the 2TB HD is a Hitachi!!! So although the Fantom gets bad reviews the Hitachi gets good ones! So I guess I now have a drive that gets good recommendations as long as I leave it in the HR23. If I put it back in the Fantom enclosure it will become a dud I guess. LOL.

Point of interest. The Fantom enclosure had the HD secured with 4 screws with no insulation. I think this was the major cause of all the noise. The HR23-700 has four screws also. Two on the side and two on the top. The neat thing is that the two on the top have double rubber washers which is why it's so much quieter. Now that it is up and operating I can barely hear it even when it is indexing (a major noise maker in the Fantom case).

Thanks to all the posters that have posted the "how to" documents.


----------



## Rich

lgb0250 said:


> What a day.
> 
> I had read all the post about how the Fantom external HD's were not rated very well. Naturally it was after I had already purchased a 2TB one for my new D* setup.
> 
> Stupid thing was really noisy, both inside the entertainment center and even more so when I moved it outside the center. Thought about just going back to the internal one that came with my HR23-700. Then I thought about everything I had already recorded and I started researching more post on this site and came up with two threads. One about how to replace the drive of an external HD and one about replacing the HD on the HR23.
> 
> Made my day. The whole process took about an hour and that included the time to unhook the HR23 and get it out of the entertainment cabinet. Didn't worry about breaking any seals since the warranty is only good for 90 days anyway. HR23 came apart very easy and really a simple straight forward transfer of the 2TB to inside the HR23. Kept all my recordings and timers with no problem.
> 
> The most hilarious thing struck me when I took the Fantom apart. Inside the enclosure the 2TB HD is a Hitachi!!! So although the Fantom gets bad reviews the Hitachi gets good ones! So I guess I now have a drive that gets good recommendations as long as I leave it in the HR23. If I put it back in the Fantom enclosure it will become a dud I guess. LOL.
> 
> Point of interest. The Fantom enclosure had the HD secured with 4 screws with no insulation. I think this was the major cause of all the noise. The HR23-700 has four screws also. Two on the side and two on the top. The neat thing is that the two on the top have double rubber washers which is why it's so much quieter. Now that it is up and operating I can barely hear it even when it is indexing (a major noise maker in the Fantom case).
> 
> Thanks to all the posters that have posted the "how to" documents.


So now you know what a lot of us know: Many HDD enclosures are crap. And large HDDs work very well as internal drives. Can't help but wonder how that Hitachi would sound in an MX-1. Just out of curiosity, how much did the Fantom eSATA cost?

Rich


----------



## lgb0250

Pd $159.99 off of Buy.com Rich

My wife and I sat here last night and were just amazed how quiet it is internally versus what it sounded like in the Fantom enclosure.


----------



## Rich

lgb0250 said:


> Pd $159.99 off of Buy.com Rich
> 
> My wife and I sat here last night and were just amazed how quiet it is internally versus what it sounded like in the Fantom enclosure.


That's a great price. Bare 2TB SATA drives by WD cost $179 last time I looked. I wonder how that Hitachi would work in a 20-700? Anybody out there try it yet?

I don't like returning things to Buy.com and I've been disappointed by them a couple times. They did take back a WD 1.5TB HDD that I bought that was noisy as hell, but first warned me that the drive would be thoroughly tested and if found to be acceptable would be returned to me. They kinda made it sound as if I bought it to return it. I'd much rather deal with Amazon. They never question returns and, believe me, I've never bought an HDD with the idea that it was gonna be bad.

Rich


----------



## lgb0250

I like Amazon or Newegg better than Buy.com also but this was just too good a deal to pass up. Forgot to mention the $159.99 was before a $20 MIR. I sent that off right away and almost forgot about it. Don't know if you subscribe to slickdeals.net but I've picked up some great deals off of them and techbargains.com

I see slickdeals has a Hitachi 2TB internal avail today for the same price and same rebate.


----------



## Skypalace

(Posted an earlier version of this Q in a different thread, but this seems to be the primary drive thread).

The Amazon reviews of the EARS drives (the 1.5TB WD15EARS in particular which is $120, so better price/perf if you don't need full 2TB) mention that they are 4kb vs 512b sector drives, which causes some issues with Windows in certain cases because of underlying assumptions in parts of the storage stack on 512 byte sectors.

A workaround using jumpers etc. on the drive is mentioned.

Has anyone had direct experience that these EARS drives work fine on the D* boxes (for me it would be an HR20-) with no workarounds etc. required?


----------



## Rich

lgb0250 said:


> I like Amazon or Newegg better than Buy.com also but this was just too good a deal to pass up. Forgot to mention the $159.99 was before a $20 MIR. I sent that off right away and almost forgot about it.


Huh. Just gets better, doesn't it? I gotta look at the Hitachi drives. Don't remember ever having one.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Skypalace said:


> (Posted an earlier version of this Q in a different thread, but this seems to be the primary drive thread).
> 
> The Amazon reviews of the EARS drives (the 1.5TB WD15EARS in particular which is $120, so better price/perf if you don't need full 2TB) mention that they are 4kb vs 512b sector drives, which causes some issues with Windows in certain cases because of underlying assumptions in parts of the storage stack on 512 byte sectors.
> 
> A workaround using jumpers etc. on the drive is mentioned.
> 
> Has anyone had direct experience that these EARS drives work fine on the D* boxes (for me it would be an HR20-) with no workarounds etc. required?


I've seen some posts that were very negative. And I've read some reviews that weren't so good. I'd stick with the EADS drives, but I've had no luck with them in my 20-700s.

Rich


----------



## sparky69

I can't say thanks enough for all the time put into these threads by many posters.

I've finally narrowed it down to three choices of drives. Enclosure is the MX-1 hands down, so I've seen.


Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST31500341AS 1.5TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive $109.99

Western Digital AV-GP WD15EVDS 1.5TB 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive $119.99

Western Digital Caviar Green WD20EADS 2TB 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive $149.99

Seems like it's almost 50/50 on the SeaGate Cuda vs. WD EADS. if so, I'd prefer the additional space of the 2TB WD.

Anyone tried the EVDS, supposedly designed for Video use ???

This will be connected eSATA up to a HR20-700 externally.


----------



## Rich

sparky69 said:


> I can't say thanks enough for all the time put into these threads by many posters.
> 
> I've finally narrowed it down to three choices of drives. Enclosure is the MX-1 hands down, so I've seen.
> 
> 
> Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST31500341AS 1.5TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive $109.99
> 
> Western Digital AV-GP WD15EVDS 1.5TB 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive $119.99
> 
> Western Digital Caviar Green WD20EADS 2TB 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive $149.99
> 
> Seems like it's almost 50/50 on the SeaGate Cuda vs. WD EADS. if so, I'd prefer the additional space of the 2TB WD.
> 
> Anyone tried the EVDS, supposedly designed for Video use ???
> 
> This will be connected eSATA up to a HR20-700 externally.


I'm still not sure about the compatibility of the EADS WD HDDs with the 20-700s. Make sure you buy it from someone that you can easily return it to. Such as Amazon. And let us know how it works, please.

Haven't seen any posts on the EVDS or read any reviews on it.

Rich


----------



## dherndon

I have a HR20-100S DVR and want more storage. I see the DTV site recommends a 1 TB WD drive, but this drive is hard to find or very expensive. Like 269 bucks in one place.

I think my DVR has a 200gig HD? How could I get the entire DVR replaced/upgraded by DTV with a bigger drive? What do the DVR's today have in them? Seems last time I upgraded from the Tivo DVR to the HD stuff they did it for 99$ a receiver......a few years ago.

Dave.


----------



## Rich

dherndon said:


> I have a HR20-100S DVR and want more storage. I see the DTV site recommends a 1 TB WD drive, but this drive is hard to find or very expensive. Like 269 bucks in one place.
> 
> I think my DVR has a 200gig HD? How could I get the entire DVR replaced/upgraded by DTV with a bigger drive? What do the DVR's today have in them? Seems last time I upgraded from the Tivo DVR to the HD stuff they did it for 99$ a receiver......a few years ago.
> 
> Dave.


You can get a 23-700 with a 500G drive in it. And join the ranks of folks complaining about it. Or you can get a 22-100 with a 500G drive in it and join the ranks of folks complaining about it.

Or you can buy an owned 20-700 on eBay or Craigslist and stick a 1.5TB Seagate drive in it in place of the pitifully small internal drive and join the ranks of folks with a good, solid HR. If you decide to do that, PM me and I'll tell you how to get a real owned one. Don't believe the sellers when they say that the HR they are selling is owned. They're rare and if you buy a leased HR, you're gonna play hell getting it activated.

Rich


----------



## AntonyB

sparky69 said:


> I can't say thanks enough for all the time put into these threads by many posters.
> 
> I've finally narrowed it down to three choices of drives. Enclosure is the MX-1 hands down, so I've seen.
> 
> 
> Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST31500341AS 1.5TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive $109.99
> 
> Western Digital AV-GP WD15EVDS 1.5TB 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive $119.99
> 
> Western Digital Caviar Green WD20EADS 2TB 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive $149.99
> 
> Seems like it's almost 50/50 on the SeaGate Cuda vs. WD EADS. if so, I'd prefer the additional space of the 2TB WD.
> 
> Anyone tried the EVDS, supposedly designed for Video use ???
> 
> This will be connected eSATA up to a HR20-700 externally.


There is a recent positive review of the EVDS (at least the 1TB one) on the DirecTV forum and also on NewEgg's site, posted by the same person. He is using it with an HR20-700. He went with a Rosewill enclosure. I was thinking of trying this drive as well. I expect you've read what WD has to say about the drive here: 
http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=617
"unsurpassed reliability for PVR/DVR, IPTV boxes and media server manufacturers"


----------



## brodyman

I have an HR21-700. Been using a Cavalry 1Tb for over two years. In the last few months it's starting making really annoying sounds more and more frequently. It's making sounds like when a smoke detector's batteries are low (which drives my dog crazy). I'm guessing it's time to replace the drive. I'm looking at an Antec MX1 but am so confused over what drive to get. 

Amazon has: 
Western Digital 1 TB Caviar Green SATA Intellipower 64 MB Cache Bulk/OEM Desktop Hard Drive WD10EARS for $87

Western Digital 1 TB Caviar Green SATA Intellipower 32 MB Cache Bulk/OEM Desktop Hard Drive WD10EADS for $89.

Do i need to stay with 32mb cache?

Also wondering if the enclosure is the problem on my Calvary or the drive. Maybe I can take the drive out of the Calvary and put it into the Antec enclosure? Or is there a way I can copy the data from my old drive to a new drive and not lose all of the programs.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks,
B


----------



## Rich

brodyman said:


> I have an HR21-700. Been using a Cavalry 1Tb for over two years. In the last few months it's starting making really annoying sounds more and more frequently. It's making sounds like when a smoke detector's batteries are low (which drives my dog crazy). I'm guessing it's time to replace the drive. I'm looking at an Antec MX1 but am so confused over what drive to get.


First, you've gotta realize that the Cavalrys are not the best eSATAs out there. I've had about fifteen (I'm guessing here, might be more, might be less) and I have none left. To add to the problems with the Cavs, they got bought out by some obscure (to me anyhow) company and only do tech support by email. Can't even begin to imagine how that works.



> Amazon has:
> Western Digital 1 TB Caviar Green SATA Intellipower 64 MB Cache Bulk/OEM Desktop Hard Drive WD10EARS for $87
> 
> Western Digital 1 TB Caviar Green SATA Intellipower 32 MB Cache Bulk/OEM Desktop Hard Drive WD10EADS for $89.
> 
> Do i need to stay with 32mb cache?


Been reading some posts that say that the posters have problems with the EARS HDDs. We know the EADS HDDs will work on the 21s. I'd stick with that. I've also read some bad reviews about the EARS. WD seems to make a lot of claims that are not quite right.



> Also wondering if the enclosure is the problem on my Calvary or the drive. Maybe I can take the drive out of the Calvary and put it into the Antec enclosure? Or is there a way I can copy the data from my old drive to a new drive and not lose all of the programs.


Can't hurt to take the drive out of the Cav and put it into an MX-1, that's worked for a lot of people.

Rich


----------



## dherndon

rich584 said:


> You can get a 23-700 with a 500G drive in it. And join the ranks of folks complaining about it. Or you can get a 22-100 with a 500G drive in it and join the ranks of folks complaining about it.
> 
> Or you can buy an owned 20-700 on eBay or Craigslist and stick a 1.5TB Seagate drive in it in place of the pitifully small internal drive and join the ranks of folks with a good, solid HR. If you decide to do that, PM me and I'll tell you how to get a real owned one. Don't believe the sellers when they say that the HR they are selling is owned. They're rare and if you buy a leased HR, you're gonna play hell getting it activated.
> 
> Rich


Or I can switch to Dish....how big are their HD's? ;-)

So I remember years ago with the Tivo devices, you had to do all kinds of tricks to get the internal HD replaced...or pay someone.....because the linux image and all. Are there easier ways to upgrade the HD inside my HR20-100s? Does it boot out of ROM or something and you can just swap the drive out?

Dave.


----------



## Rich

dherndon said:


> Or I can switch to Dish....how big are their HD's? ;-)
> 
> So I remember years ago with the Tivo devices, you had to do all kinds of tricks to get the internal HD replaced...or pay someone.....because the linux image and all. Are there easier ways to upgrade the HD inside my HR20-100s? Does it boot out of ROM or something and you can just swap the drive out?
> 
> Dave.


Basically, you just swap the drive out and the HR takes care of the rest. Simple compared to the TiVos. Don't even like to think about how many HDDs I went thru in my TiVos. Cost me a small fortune.

Rich


----------



## CCarncross

dherndon said:


> Or I can switch to Dish....how big are their HD's? ;-)
> 
> So I remember years ago with the Tivo devices, you had to do all kinds of tricks to get the internal HD replaced...or pay someone.....because the linux image and all. Are there easier ways to upgrade the HD inside my HR20-100s? Does it boot out of ROM or something and you can just swap the drive out?
> 
> Dave.


If they are owned its a simple swap out, if they are leased its recommended to go the eSATA route.


----------



## sparky69

Thanks Rich for all the posts. 

I went with the proven route with the HR20-700 and installed the Seagate Barrracuda 1.5T 7200.11 ST31500341AS drive in an MX-1 box.

Couldn't have been any simpler to upgrade!

It took more time for the HR to reboot than to get the eSATA box put together.

Ended up buying off the shelf from Best Buy for the MX-1 and CompUSA for the drive, as they were the same pricing and walking back parts is always easier if they don't work.

Wasn't willing to pay an additional $50 for the 2TB WD EADS over the counter and with your experiences ...........................


Thanks again!


----------



## Rich

sparky69 said:


> Thanks Rich for all the posts.
> 
> I went with the proven route with the HR20-700 and installed the Seagate Barrracuda 1.5T 7200.11 ST31500341AS drive in an MX-1 box.
> 
> Couldn't have been any simpler to upgrade!
> 
> It took more time for the HR to reboot than to get the eSATA box put together.
> 
> Ended up buying off the shelf from Best Buy for the MX-1 and CompUSA for the drive, as they were the same pricing and walking back parts is always easier if they don't work.
> 
> Wasn't willing to pay an additional $50 for the 2TB WD EADS over the counter and with your experiences ...........................
> 
> Thanks again!


You're very welcome. Good luck! I'm still lusting after that 2TB WD HDD. But I just can't pull the trigger having three EADS HDDs fail or make noise. Wish I knew if it was just my bad luck or an incompatibility with the 20-700s.

Rich


----------



## CCarncross

rich584 said:


> You're very welcome. Good luck! I'm still lusting after that 2TB WD HDD. But I just can't pull the trigger having three EADS HDDs fail or make noise. Wish I knew if it was just my bad luck or and incompatibility with the 20-700s.
> 
> Rich


Many of us have used nothing but EADS's in 20-700's, I've never had an issue in over 3 years...


----------



## Rich

CCarncross said:


> Many of us have used nothing but EADS's in 20-700's, I've never had an issue in over 3 years...


I know. But I've had none work correctly. The only difference I see is that you're using them externally and I'm using mine internally, except for the one that the DLB NR took out, that was in an MX-1. I guess I'll buy one on Amazon and see how it works in my latest 20-700. Don't have anything else to do with it, it's activated and sitting on a shelf. I keep forgetting to deactivate it. Be nice to have another 2TB HDD again. Sure wish someone else would try one in a 20-700, I really don't like to take them apart.

Rich


----------



## AntonyB

What is the recommended orientation for the MX-1 enclosure: horizontal, vertical , or makes no difference? (It comes with a stand for vertical orientation and that would suit my installation better than sitting it flat). Or, does the answer depend on the brand of hard drive (do some prefer to spin horizontally versus vertically?).

Obviously I'm interested in longevity.....any opinions? 
Any opinions backed up by HDD manufacturers' advice?

Thanks.


----------



## CCarncross

rich584 said:


> I know. But I've had none work correctly. The only difference I see is that you're using them externally and I'm using mine internally, except for the one that the DLB NR took out, that was in an MX-1. I guess I'll buy one on Amazon and see how it works in my latest 20-700. Don't have anything else to do with it, it's activated and sitting on a shelf. I keep forgetting to deactivate it. Be nice to have another 2TB HDD again. Sure wish someone els would try one in a 20-700, I really don't like to take them apart.
> 
> Rich


Mine are all mounted externally because I don't own any of them, so I respect the companies wishes and dont open whats not mine. BTW, this isnt aimed at you, I know you own all yours....This is aimed at the other 999,999,999 who think that if its in their house they can do what they want with it.


----------



## sparky69

So I'm getting a lot of pixelated recordings now. No sound and most of the time barely even watchable video only. Almost seems hit and miss. I'm thinking it is happening when a show is watched live and the second one is being recorded at this time.

Specific instance is recording the Olympics Off-Air ch 5-1 while watching other channels late last night. 

Can't think of what is causing this, something with the Seagate ???

NEVER happened with the factory internal drive.


----------



## Rich

AntonyB said:


> What is the recommended orientation for the MX-1 enclosure: horizontal, vertical , or makes no difference? (It comes with a stand for vertical orientation and that would suit my installation better than sitting it flat). Or, does the answer depend on the brand of hard drive (do some prefer to spin horizontally versus vertically?).
> 
> Obviously I'm interested in longevity.....any opinions?
> Any opinions backed up by HDD manufacturers' advice?
> 
> Thanks.


All mine sit flat on shelves or rugs. Had problems with Cavalry eSATAs and one of the questions I was asked by their tech support was, "is it vertical or horizontal?" They then went on to advise me to always mount their's horizontally or parallel to a shelf or floor. Haven't used a vertically mounted eSATA since except for the Seagate Free Agent Pros which only allowed for vertical mounting. I'd advise you to follow their advice.

Rich


----------



## Rich

CCarncross said:


> Mine are all mounted externally because I don't own any of them, so I respect the companies wishes and dont open whats not mine. BTW, this isnt aimed at you, I know you own all yours....This is aimed at the other 999,999,999 who think that if its in their house they can do what they want with it.


But why don't the damn things work in my 20-700s as internal drives? Three out of three failures should be enough to stop anyone from trying again, but that WD EADS is the only 2TB drive that interests me. Guess I'll buy one from Amazon and try it. Nothing to lose. If that fails or is overly noisy, I'm gonna give up completely on the EADS drives and the 20-700s and just write it off to an incompatibility.

Rich


----------



## CCarncross

rich584 said:


> But why don't the damn things work in my 20-700s as internal drives? Three out of three failures should be enough to stop anyone from trying again, but that WD EADS is the only 2TB drive that interests me. Guess I'll buy one from Amazon and try it. Nothing to lose. If that fails or is overly noisy, I'm gonna give up completely on the EADS drives and the 20-700s and just write it off to an incompatibility.
> 
> Rich


Make sure you set the jumper to 1.5GB mode, I *think* its jumper 5/6, but don't quote me....


----------



## Rich

CCarncross said:


> Make sure you set the jumper to 1.5GB mode, I *think* its jumper 5/6, but don't quote me....


Huh. Never even seen a jumper that came with an HDD or an enclosure. Do they come with the EADS bare SATA HDDs? Don't use jumpers on the Seagates and they all work fine at 3GB. Guess I'm missing something, again.

Rich


----------



## sparky69

Back in business. not sure why the Off-Air was going bad, but all recordings looking great from the past few days using DTV local channel settings.

Very nice being able to record all Olympic programming, with room to spare, and watch/scan at leisure without worries of running out of space.


----------



## jgonz69

FD G-Force Hard Drive - GF1000EU 
Fantom 1TB G-Force Hard Drive - Dual Interface (eSATA & USB 2.0) - External Hard Drive

at buy.com

will this work?


----------



## CCarncross

jgonz69 said:


> FD G-Force Hard Drive - GF1000EU
> Fantom 1TB G-Force Hard Drive - Dual Interface (eSATA & USB 2.0) - External Hard Drive
> 
> at buy.com
> 
> will this work?


Yes, but its not a very well recommended model...Fantoms are not known for quality workmanship...I highly recommend spending a little extra on an Antec MX-1 and a WD Green drive


----------



## Rich

jgonz69 said:


> FD G-Force Hard Drive - GF1000EU
> Fantom 1TB G-Force Hard Drive - Dual Interface (eSATA & USB 2.0) - External Hard Drive
> 
> at buy.com
> 
> will this work?


One member took the HDD out of his Fantom and replaced the internal drive in his HR with the Hitachi that came in the Fantom and it is working properly. Those things are cheap for a reason. I had the same problem with Cavalry eSATAs. Take *CCarncross's advice* and go with the MX-1. We know they work.

Rich


----------



## jgonz69

CCarncross said:


> Yes, but its not a very well recommended model...Fantoms are not known for quality workmanship...I highly recommend spending a little extra on an Antec MX-1 and a WD Green drive


thanks


----------



## jgonz69

rich584 said:


> One member took the HDD out of his Fantom and replaced the internal drive in his HR with the Hitachi that came in the Fantom and it is working properly. Those things are cheap for a reason. I had the same problem with Cavalry eSATAs. Take *CCarncross's advice* and go with the MX-1. We know they work.
> 
> Rich


Thanks.


----------



## Rich

jgonz69 said:


> Thanks.


You're welcome and let me share with you my findings on the Net about the Hitachi HDDs. Bad reviews abound. I really don't think people pay enough attention to reviews when purchasing electronics. CC used to have a great review section on it's website before they went out of business. Posted plenty of negative reviews in spite of selling the items reviewed, as does Amazon. You're always gonna see some bad reviews, but if you see a preponderance of good reviews, you're usually pretty safe.

Rich


----------



## GregLee

AntonyB said:


> There is a recent positive review of the EVDS (at least the 1TB one) ...


In another thread here, Stuart Sweet recommended the 2TB EVDS as a replacement drive (for an HR20-700).


----------



## sparky69

Would using a eSATA connection have any relation to the On-Demand feature? 

Since upgrading to the external drive, I cannot use this function.


----------



## GregLee

sparky69 said:


> Would using a eSATA connection have any relation to the On-Demand feature?


I don't think so.


----------



## Rich

sparky69 said:


> Would using a eSATA connection have any relation to the On-Demand feature?
> 
> Since upgrading to the external drive, I cannot use this function.


Shouldn't make any difference. I've used it many times with HRs that have eSATAs on them. But that was when it first became functional and things might have changed since then, but I can't imagine why an eSATA would matter.

Rich


----------



## Rich

GregLee said:


> In another thread here, Stuart Sweet recommended the 2TB EVDS as a replacement drive (for an HR20-700).


I just bought the 2TB EADS. Not enough info on the Net to make me want to try an EVDS. I do like to read reviews before I buy and I can't find many and none that relate to DVRs.

Rich


----------



## Steveknj

I saw at BJs a Toshiba external esata drive for $99. Anyone have any luck with those? I have a fantom and have all kinds of troubles with it reformatting after reboot, so I'm looking for an altrernative, but have limited funds.


----------



## finaldiet

I have a seagate 750 and it has run for about a year and a half with no problems. Was thinking of getting a 1 TB but this one is working great.


----------



## spunkyvision

What are the problems with the EARS drives?
The problem I have is it freezes constantly. Push a button 30 seconds passes before anything happens. I put the old 1tb back in and it's fine no issues (seagate not sure the model)
I just installed a new 2TB wd20ears and it is really slow to respond. It is an MX-1 case. 
It said it was for DVRs (amazon) if it is a no go can I return it as defective?
I have tried it on a HR20-700

what about HR21-700s any better or worse luck for drives?
Tks


----------



## GregLee

spunkyvision said:


> What are the problems with the EARS drives?


Look above at #444 in this thread.


----------



## CCarncross

spunkyvision said:


> What are the problems with the EARS drives?
> The problem I have is it freezes constantly. Push a button 30 seconds passes before anything happens. I put the old 1tb back in and it's fine no issues (seagate not sure the model)
> I just installed a new 2TB wd20ears and it is really slow to respond. It is an MX-1 case.
> It said it was for DVRs (amazon) if it is a no go can I return it as defective?
> I have tried it on a HR20-700
> 
> what about HR21-700s any better or worse luck for drives?
> Tks


There are some posts about it above, but long story short, the default sector(or block, cant remember) size on that new drive causes issues with the OS properly writing to it. The OS expects 512k and it uses 4k or some such number.


----------



## Rich

CCarncross said:


> There are some posts about it above, but long story short, the default sector(or block, cant remember) size on that new drive causes issues with the OS properly writing to it. The OS expects 512k and it uses 4k or some such number.


I just put a 2TB in one of my owned 20-700s with the jumper you recommended in place to slow it down to 1.5Gbs. Seems to be working perfectly so far. Only installed it a couple days ago, so not enough time to be positive about it, but it seems OK. Thanks for the info.

Oddly, I couldn't get it to work in an old Antec MX-1 even with the jumper in place. Froze up immediately. I didn't really feel like taking another 20-700 apart, but I did and so far, so good. Only took twenty minutes or so to get it into the 20-700, I think I've got the front panel problem solved. Took the Antec out to the driveway and pummeled it with a sledgehammer. Frustrated, I was. Gave me a measure of satisfaction. 

Again, my thanks for the sage advice and I urge all you guys who are trying to install HDDs in 20-700s or put HDDs in enclosures for 20-700s to check with us (preferably *CCarncross*, he obviously understands this better than I do) before you buy the HDDs or try to install them.

Do take this bit of advice: All Amazon seems to be shipping is "bare SATA drives" and I do mean bare. All you get is the HDD itself. No jumpers. Nothing but the HDD. I was fortunate to have the appropriate jumpers laying around, but most folks are gonna have to go to a computer store to get them. Lots of luck with that, and make sure you bring the HDD with you.

Rich


----------



## CCarncross

Most of the drives are OEM drives that people buy today, because they are cheaper than the retail drives, dont come with screws, jumpers, etc....if you buy a retail model, it comes with mounting screws and jumpers.


----------



## GregLee

finaldiet said:


> I have a seagate 750 and it has run for about a year and a half with no problems. Was thinking of getting a 1 TB but this one is working great.


I bought a Seagate 750G FAP in 12/07 and ran it 24/7 until last October, when its power adapter failed. So you might get a lot of service yet from your Seagate.


----------



## hehateme

Hi:

I have a HR20 which was running out of disk space.
I place an order for Iomega DVR Expander 1 TB drive.
I read the reviews on Amazon and there were several customers who had hooked this drive up with a HR 20. I was wondering if you have any experience with this drive.

If for some reason It does not work will with the DVR I can use it with my windows home server.


Thanks


----------



## Rich

CCarncross said:


> Most of the drives are OEM drives that people buy today, because they are cheaper than the retail drives, dont come with screws, jumpers, etc....if you buy a retail model, it comes with mounting screws and jumpers.


Yeah, I know, but Amazon used to ship the whole package just like retail stores do and now they are touting their ease of opening packaging. And nothing comes with the drive at all. Would have been nice it they had announced that they were going to start doing that.

I just watched _Jurassic Park_ on the 20-700 with the WD EADS drive in it and it played perfectly.

When I booted it up the first time after installing the drive, I couldn't believe how fast it booted up. Must have been the HDD, is it possible for an HDD to have that much effect on the booting up process? I never saw an 20-700 boot up that fast. Or any other model.

Rich


----------



## Rich

hehateme said:


> Hi:
> 
> I have a HR20 which was running out of disk space.
> I place an order for Iomega DVR Expander 1 TB drive.
> I read the reviews on Amazon and there were several customers who had hooked this drive up with a HR 20. I was wondering if you have any experience with this drive.
> 
> If for some reason It does not work will with the DVR I can use it with my windows home server.
> 
> Thanks


Never tried an Iomega enclosure. We usually recommend the Antec MX-1. They seem to work well with all models of HRs.

Rich


----------



## Rich

GregLee said:


> I bought a Seagate 750G FAP in 12/07 and ran it 24/7 until last October, when its power adapter failed. So you might get a lot of service yet from your Seagate.


Did you get it replaced? Five year replacement warranty.

Rich


----------



## Rich

CCarncross said:


> Most of the drives are OEM drives that people buy today, because they are cheaper than the retail drives, dont come with screws, jumpers, etc....if you buy a retail model, it comes with mounting screws and jumpers.


I just searched a few sites for those jumpers and came up with this _link_, which is for a kit that contains 20 jumpers and a lot of other goodies.

Only costs about $15 for the whole kit. Well worth the price if you're gonna stick an HDD in a 20-700 or in an Antec MX-1 enclosure.

If you scroll down the page you will see drawings of each item and the quantities of those items. There are three jumpers listed with different dimensions. Looks like the smallest of the three jumpers in the kit is the one needed for the WD drives. Not sure tho. One of them will work.

Rich


----------



## Jammasterd

I plan on using this drive:
http://www.wdc.com/en/products/Products.asp?DriveID=615

with the MX-1.
What jumper setting would I use? 
I have a noisy HD-DVR - HR21-700.


----------



## Rich

Jammasterd said:


> I plan on using this drive:
> http://www.wdc.com/en/products/Products.asp?DriveID=615
> 
> with the MX-1.
> What jumper setting would I use?
> I have a noisy HD-DVR - HR21-700.


Don't need a jumper with a 21-700 as far as I know.

Rich


----------



## Sparky Scott

I wonder when and how much they will do something?


----------



## Rich

rich584 said:


> Don't need a jumper with a 21-700 as far as I know.
> 
> Rich


Let me make this clearer and less confusing. As far as I know the only HR that needs to run at 1.5Gbs is the 20-700.

Therefore, the only HR that needs the jumper that I have been referring to is the 20-700. I know that the 23-700 will run the WD EADS 2TB at 3Gbs so no jumper is needed for that. And since the 23-700 is a 21-700 at heart, I think all the 21s and that includes the 22s will run the WD EADS 2TB HDD at 3Gbs, negating the need for a jumper.

I have purchased the kit that contains the jumpers from the site that I supplied the link to on an earlier post. When I get it, I will post which of the three different sized jumpers supplied is the one needed for the WD HDDs.

I have been specific about the WD EADS HDDs because I know that the 20-700s will run the Seagate Barracudas which are configured at 3Gbs. What I don't get is what the difference in the two manufacturer's drives are and I don't think it matters. Four of my owned 20-700s are running well with internal Seagate Barracudas set at 3Gbs.

But, when I get the kit, I plan to put the jumpers on the Seagates as well. Just to be sure I get them to perform as well as they can.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Jammasterd said:


> I plan on using this drive:
> http://www.wdc.com/en/products/Products.asp?DriveID=615
> 
> with the MX-1.
> What jumper setting would I use?
> I have a noisy HD-DVR - HR21-700.


I just checked further and that drive is an EVDS drive. I think there have been some negative posts about that drive when used in an HR. You might want to do a search for those posts using the search function before purchasing it. The EADS is about $30 cheaper and it works well.

Rich


----------



## PHL

LameLefty said:


> The cases of the HR2x require a Torx security bit to open, for one thing, and they are not as easy to work on internally as a computer (smaller space, less accessible, shorter cables, etc.) .
> 
> That said, though I do own an HR21 whose drive died on me last month, I decided not to bother opening up the case. * I didn't use an MX1 enclosure either though. I got a Thermaltake drive dock instead*: you literally plug the drive in vertically like an oversized cartridge of an old game console. Works like a charm, and if (when!) the new drive fails in a few years, I can easily just plug in a new one without any fuss.


I've been searching through this thread, but wasn't able to find anything. Anyone else have any experience using a Thermaltake drive dock (or similar) instead of an enclosure. I'm reading that the MX-1 enclosures have potential fan issues, and this would be a concern with ANY fan-cooled enclosure. Using a dock with result in purely passive convection cooling which would not be prone to failure.


----------



## Rich

PHL said:


> I've been searching through this thread, but wasn't able to find anything. Anyone else have any experience using a Thermaltake drive dock (or similar) instead of an enclosure. I'm reading that the MX-1 enclosures have potential fan issues, and this would be a concern with ANY fan-cooled enclosure. Using a dock with result in purely passive convection cooling which would not be prone to failure.


I just Googled the dock and it looks like it is a SATA to USB device. You need SATA to SATA for it to work in an HR. Or am I reading it wrong? Does look interesting.

Rich


----------



## Rich

rich584 said:


> I just Googled the dock and it looks like it is a SATA to USB device. You need SATA to SATA for it to work in an HR. Or am I reading it wrong? Does look interesting.
> 
> Rich


Just checked it again and I see how it works. It does have an eSATA port in the back. Would be interesting to try one.

Rich


----------



## ejjames

I searched, but came up empty. I was wondering if something like this monoprice docking station might work with a Samsung Ecogreen drive attached?

I use one on my main pc and just ordered a 1.5TB drive as a backup, but thought I might try it on my HR20-700 first. Has anyone tried one of these docking stations?

1.5TB sounds pretty nice compared to 320GB. Just thought I'd ask.

thanks!

http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10315&cs_id=1031502&p_id=5330&seq=1&format=2


----------



## oldschoolecw

Will this setup work on my HR20-700?
Thermaltake BlacX N0028USU External Hard Drive SATA Enclosure Docking Station 2.5" & 3.5" USB 2.0
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153066

This HD gets AWESOME reviews
SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3EG HD203WI 2TB 5400 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152202


----------



## 2dogz

oldschoolecw said:


> Will this setup work on my HR20-700?
> Thermaltake BlacX N0028USU External Hard Drive SATA Enclosure Docking Station 2.5" & 3.5" USB 2.0
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153066
> 
> This HD gets AWESOME reviews
> SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3EG HD203WI 2TB 5400 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152202


Your enclosure seems to be USB interface only. This won't work on DVR. You need one with an ESATA interface to connect to DVR.


----------



## oldschoolecw

2dogz said:


> Your enclosure seems to be USB interface only. This won't work on DVR. You need one with an ESATA interface to connect to DVR.


Thanks, that's why I asked


----------



## Steveknj

Steveknj said:


> I saw at BJs a Toshiba external esata drive for $99. Anyone have any luck with those? I have a fantom and have all kinds of troubles with it reformatting after reboot, so I'm looking for an altrernative, but have limited funds.


Sorry for the bump, but my fantom esata drive reformatted on me again after a reboot, so I'm getting frustrated. Anyone have any luck with this Toshiba?


----------



## CCarncross

Stick with the known good recommendations. Dont go venturing out for the Deal of the day if you want any kind of reliability and long term use.


----------



## Steveknj

CCarncross said:


> Stick with the known good recommendations. Dont go venturing out for the Deal of the day if you want any kind of reliability and long term use.


So rather than sifting through 20 pages of messages, what is the recommened drive du jour?


----------



## armophob

Against all the good advice here in this thread, I have been sucked in by price on a 2T Cavalry at Buy.com. They are running a $25 rebate, knocking the price down to $144,

I have been using a Cavalry 1T for years now sitting vertical with good success, knock on formica.

It is crazy to risk future recordings this way, but the price is too enticing.


----------



## armophob

Steveknj said:


> So rather than sifting through 20 pages of messages, what is the recommened drive du jour?


Doug keeps post #1 in this thread updated.


----------



## CCarncross

armophob said:


> Against all the good advice here in this thread, I have been sucked in by price on a 2T Cavalry at Buy.com. They are running a $25 rebate, knocking the price down to $144,
> 
> I have been using a Cavalry 1T for years now sitting vertical with good success, knock on formica.
> 
> It is crazy to risk future recordings this way, but the price is too enticing.


*cough*cheapskate*cough*

:lol:


----------



## Rich

oldschoolecw said:


> Will this setup work on my HR20-700?
> Thermaltake BlacX N0028USU External Hard Drive SATA Enclosure Docking Station 2.5" & 3.5" USB 2.0
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153066
> 
> This HD gets AWESOME reviews
> SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3EG HD203WI 2TB 5400 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152202


Can't find that drive on Amazon. That alone should tell you something. NewEgg's reviews tend to be a bit "rosy". I trust Amazon's reviews and Circuit City's reviews more than them. CC seems to print any reviews it gets, good or bad. The 5400 spindle speed would worry me a bit. I had very bad experiences with Sammy HDDs in many TiVos.

But, if you get it and it doesn't work, you can always send it back and get something that we know works in the 20-700s. The WD EADS 2TB is a good choice.

Rich


----------



## Rich

oldschoolecw said:


> Thanks, that's why I asked


There's a couple links on this thread for docking stations that do have SATA ports. Make sure you look at all the pictures.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Steveknj said:


> So rather than sifting through 20 pages of messages, what is the recommened drive du jour?


Depends on the HR. You should post that info when asking such a question. Use HR2x-xxx and we'll be able to answer you. Not all eSATAs work with all HRs.

Rich


----------



## Dunc

So, I bought a Seagate Barracuda, 7200.11, 1.5 Gig and put in a Antec box.
All went well, it quickly formatted and I had a ton of recording space. I used the Antec ESATA cable, found that was too noisy and installed a new one. (Which caused a re-formatting of the drive and lost Olympics programs :-( )
Now my issues are that it will for no good reason, just re-format the new drive, and of course we lose whatever we had recorded.

My question is: Is this an issue with my HR21-100? or the Seagate drive?


----------



## Rich

armophob said:


> Against all the good advice here in this thread, I have been sucked in by price on a 2T Cavalry at Buy.com. They are running a $25 rebate, knocking the price down to $144,
> 
> I have been using a Cavalry 1T for years now sitting vertical with good success, knock on formica.
> 
> It is crazy to risk future recordings this way, but the price is too enticing.


I don't know how many Cavs I've had. Quite a few and none left. They were bought out by another company and the last time I looked, they only had tech support by email. Another thing is that buy.com is not the easiest site to return an HDD to.

I also wonder about that picture in that link. Before they got bought out, I had a long conversation with one of the techs and he firmly recommended putting them in the horizontal position.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Dunc said:


> So, I bought a Seagate Barracuda, 7200.11, 1.5 Gig and put in a Antec box.
> All went well, it quickly formatted and I had a ton of recording space. I used the Antec ESATA cable, found that was too noisy and installed a new one. (Which caused a re-formatting of the drive and lost Olympics programs :-( )
> Now my issues are that it will for no good reason, just re-format the new drive, and of course we lose whatever we had recorded.
> 
> My question is: Is this an issue with my HR21-100? or the Seagate drive?


Probably the HR. All my Antecs work really well on my 21-700s. Might be a bad enclosure, I just had one and took a hammer to it. Put the HDD inside one of my owned 20-700s and it is working fine. I've never had a disk reformat without me telling it to. Really doubt it is the HDD.

Rich


----------



## Steveknj

rich584 said:


> Depends on the HR. You should post that info when asking such a question. Use HR2x-xxx and we'll be able to answer you. Not all eSATAs work with all HRs.
> 
> Rich


Hey thanks.

It's an HR21 (not sure of the -xxx, I always forget). I currently have the Fantom green drive 1TB, and the thing reformats about 50% of the time now after reboot of the unit. So I'm totally frustrated as I had a ton of stuff to catch up on that I saved during the Olympics (luckily my other HR21 without the external has those shows too). So, I'm looking for alternatives.

What about Internals and an external case / dock? What's suggested there?


----------



## oldschoolecw

rich584 said:


> Can't find that drive on Amazon. That alone should tell you something. NewEgg's reviews tend to be a bit "rosy". I trust Amazon's reviews and Circuit City's reviews more than them. CC seems to print any reviews it gets, good or bad. The 5400 spindle speed would worry me a bit. I had very bad experiences with Sammy HDDs in many TiVos.
> 
> But, if you get it and it doesn't work, you can always send it back and get something that we know works in the 20-700s. The WD EADS 2TB is a good choice.
> 
> Rich


Thanks, how about this setup for my HR20-700?
Thermaltake N0012USU Max 4 Active Cooling 3.5-Inch USB 2.0 eSATA Hard Drive Enclosure
http://www.amazon.com/Thermaltake-N...TF8&coliid=I1WRQT8T8FVBQ1&colid=2V47QXU4J2AA1
Western Digital 2 TB Caviar Green SATA Intellipower 32 MB Cache Bulk/OEM Desktop Hard Drive WD20EADS
http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digit...TF8&coliid=I2VTUKHUC49XUB&colid=2V47QXU4J2AA1


----------



## armophob

CCarncross said:


> *cough*cheapskate*cough*
> 
> :lol:





rich584 said:


> I don't know how many Cavs I've had. Quite a few and none left.


I know, I know. It will take a huge failure here to wake me up I guess.

Directv is really missing the ball IMO here. If they said I could have 3 more dvr's tomorrow for nothing more than the $5 each a month, I would do it instead.


----------



## Rich

oldschoolecw said:


> Thanks, how about this setup for my HR20-700?
> Thermaltake N0012USU Max 4 Active Cooling 3.5-Inch USB 2.0 eSATA Hard Drive Enclosure
> http://www.amazon.com/Thermaltake-N...TF8&coliid=I1WRQT8T8FVBQ1&colid=2V47QXU4J2AA1
> Western Digital 2 TB Caviar Green SATA Intellipower 32 MB Cache Bulk/OEM Desktop Hard Drive WD20EADS
> http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digit...TF8&coliid=I2VTUKHUC49XUB&colid=2V47QXU4J2AA1


The link to the WD HDD is correct. Don't know about the enclosure.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Steveknj said:


> Hey thanks.
> 
> It's an HR21 (not sure of the -xxx, I always forget). I currently have the Fantom green drive 1TB, and the thing reformats about 50% of the time now after reboot of the unit. So I'm totally frustrated as I had a ton of stuff to catch up on that I saved during the Olympics (luckily my other HR21 without the external has those shows too). So, I'm looking for alternatives.
> 
> What about Internals and an external case / dock? What's suggested there?


We usually recommend the Antec MX-1 enclosure. And either the Seagate Barracudas with a spindle speed of 7200RPM or a WD EADS HDD. Make sure you buy both from some site such as Amazon where you can easily return defective or incompatible stuff. For a 21, the WD EADS might be your best bet, altho I have never had a problem with a Seagate on my 21-700s.

The docks? Don't know about them, but they sure look interesting.

Rich


----------



## oldschoolecw

rich584 said:


> The link to the WD HDD is correct. Don't know about the enclosure.
> 
> Rich


OK, then could you or someone pick me out an enclosure that would work with this above Hard drive and my HR20-700

Thanks
Rich


----------



## CCarncross

rich584 said:


> *We usually recommend the Antec MX-1 enclosure.*
> Rich


Rich just did....


----------



## oldschoolecw

CCarncross said:


> Rich just did....


D'oh!, I see that :lol:


----------



## armophob

Cavalry 2t arrived today.
Ok, refresh my memory, I have #2 hooked up to Cav 1T and #1 still running internal. If I wanted to swap the 1t to #1 and hook up the 2t to #2, will a different dvr reformat the 1t and dump its memory? Or because they are both HR20-700's will it recognize it?


----------



## Rich

armophob said:


> Cavalry 2t arrived today.
> Ok, refresh my memory, I have #2 hooked up to Cav 1T and #1 still running internal. If I wanted to swap the 1t to #1 and hook up the 2t to #2, will a different dvr reformat the 1t and dump its memory? Or because they are both HR20-700's will it recognize it?


You shouldn't lose any programs or SLs. The SLs will still work, but you won't be able to use the programming even tho it will still show up on your playlist. You can only play recordings on the HR that recorded them.

Rich


----------



## armophob

rich584 said:


> You shouldn't lose any programs or SLs. The SLs will still work, but you won't be able to use the programming even tho it will still show up on your playlist. You can only play recordings on the HR that recorded them.
> 
> Rich


thanks


----------



## AntonyB

CCarncross, last October you said: 


CCarncross said:


> I've been running an eSATA setup almost since day 1 of having my HR20(3 years next month), started with a 500GB WD in an Antec MX-1. moved to a 1TB about a year ago, and a 1.5 TB about 6 months ago ...


I'm wondering if you needed to jumper those WD's to run at 1.5Gb/s as mentioned recently by Rich584? Or did they run fine as an eSATA with no jumper (i.e. at 3Gb/s)? Do you have the HR20-700?

Thanks.


----------



## CCarncross

AntonyB said:


> CCarncross, last October you said:
> 
> I'm wondering if you needed to jumper those WD's to run at 1.5Gb/s as mentioned recently by Rich584? Or did they run fine as an eSATA with no jumper (i.e. at 3Gb/s)? Do you have the HR20-700?
> 
> Thanks.


I have an HR20-700, and I did jumper them all....

Guys this is real simple: Install it and run it, if you have a 20-700, and you get a little stuttering occasionally, throw a jumper on it and see if it goes away. There is absolutely no advantage to running the drive in 3GB mode, the Antec is only 1.5 capable, and the chipset in the 20-700 is only 1.5 capable. All the streams that an HR can handle at one time cannot max out 1.5GB/s transfer rate.


----------



## THEPOGCBR900RR

rich584 said:


> I just bought the 2TB EADS. Not enough info on the Net to make me want to try an EVDS. I do like to read reviews before I buy and I can't find many and none that relate to DVRs.
> 
> Rich


 WD20EADS right?

Hello Rich, im new to the forum.

I have been looking over all the forums and info and have to say, you really know your stuff... 

Well from all my searching, i have got that the antec MX-1 is the best enclosure.... The pic below
kinda will show all the other newbs why. Looks to be the best one that keeps the drive the coolest. Also has a great transfer rate....
Question: Is the MX-1 every loud?

Anyhow, how did the 2TB work? Im still kind iffy on what will be the best 2tb Hdrive brand and style to use...

What 2tb hardrive do you think the antec MX-1 would be good for my dvr? WD?

Whats about a 
1) My Book Home Edition 2 TB External hard drive: 3Gbps(eSATA) 
2) My Book Studio Edition 2 TB External hard drive: 3Gbps(eSATA)

Thanks for your time, and input.
Bill

I have a DIRECTV Plus® HD DVR or HR21-100... I think


----------



## Rich

THEPOGCBR900RR said:


> WD20EADS right?


Yes.



> Hello Rich, im new to the forum.
> 
> I have been looking over all the forums and info and have to say, you really know your stuff...


Huh. Thanx, still learning, tho.



> Well from all my searching, i have got that the antec MX-1 is the best enclosure.... The pic below
> kinda will show all the other newbs why. Looks to be the best one that keeps the drive the coolest. Also has a great transfer rate....
> Question: Is the MX-1 every loud?


Some folks have silent ones. I've never had one that was very loud. Wouldn't put one in a quiet bedroom, tho.



> Anyhow, how did the 2TB work? Im still kind iffy on what will be the best 2tb Hdrive brand and style to use...
> 
> What 2tb hardrive do you think the antec MX-1 would be good for my dvr? WD?


I'd go with the 2TB WD EADS. I think the 2TB WD EARS is a 2TB EADS with a 64MB cache as opposed to the EADS 32MB cache. Should work just as well as the EADS. But I'm not really sure and if I were you, I'd go with the 2TB EADS.

I tried three EADS HDDs in Antec MX-1 enclosures and had no luck using them with my 20-700s. Finally found out why and put one on a 20-700 and it froze right up. Took it out of the MX-1, decided it was the MX-1 that was the problem and took a sledge hammer to it. Then I put the 2TB in an owned 20-700 in place of the original HDD and it's been working perfectly. Wish I had kept the Antec instead of beating it to death, but I was frustrated and got a great deal of satisfaction destroying it. Well worth the $50 it cost.



> Whats about a
> 1) My Book Home Edition 2 TB External hard drive: 3Gbps(eSATA)
> 2) My Book Studio Edition 2 TB External hard drive: 3Gbps(eSATA)


Not a good choice, go with the Antec. Some folks have gotten the My Book series eSATAs to work with 21s, but they are rare and they just seem to post once and you never hear from them again. The My Book series of eSATAs was not meant for DVRs. Got that info straight from a WD tech.



> I have a DIRECTV Plus® HD DVR or HR21-100... I think


The MX-1 should work well with that HR.








[/QUOTE]

Here's a good *link* to read and then watch the video. This should help you with the installation. Takes me about five minutes to put an HDD in an MX-1, but the first time is a learning process and takes a bit longer.

Rich


----------



## THEPOGCBR900RR

rich584 said:


> I'd go with the 2TB WD EADS. I think the 2TB WD EARS is a 2TB EADS with a 64MB cache as opposed to the EADS 32MB cache. Should work just as well as the EADS. But I'm not really sure and if I were you, I'd go with the 2TB EADS.
> 
> Rich


Question:
Shouldn't a 64mb cashe be better than a 32mb?
How come EARS dont work well?

I will stick with the mx-1.
Great installation link!

Ditched the idea of the mybook. 
(I Have also read bad stories)

Thanks for your input Rich!


----------



## Rich

THEPOGCBR900RR said:


> Question:
> Shouldn't a 64mb cashe be better than a 32mb?
> How come EARS dont work well?


You'd think so, but what works and what doesn't on the HRs is a little strange. Without a spec sheet for the HRs, I think we're all kinda groping in the dark for answers.



> I will stick with the mx-1.


Wise choice.



> Great installation link!


We have *Volman* to thank for that. He really does research on the Net well.



> Ditched the idea of the mybook.
> (I Have also read bad stories)


I think I was one of the first to buy one on the forum. Tried it on a 20-700, my weapon of choice, and it wouldn't work. Called WD tech support and was told that the My Books would not work on any DVR. This was before I got a 21-700 and had forgotten about them and never tried one on a 21-700. Then we started getting sporadic reports from members who said that they had them working on various 21s. But, then we never heard back from them. So I/we kinda gave up on them completely.



> Thanks for your input Rich!


You're very welcome.

Rich


----------



## Volman

[



rich584 said:


> I tried three EADS HDDs in Antec MX-1 enclosures and had no luck using them with my 20-700s. Finally found out why and put one on a 20-700 and it froze right up. Took it out of the MX-1, decided it was the MX-1 that was the problem and took a sledge hammer to it. Then I put the 2TB in an owned 20-700 in place of the original HDD and it's been working perfectly. Wish I had kept the Antec instead of beating it to death, but I was frustrated and got a great deal of satisfaction destroying it. Well worth the $50 it cost.
> 
> Here's a good *link* to read and then watch the video. This should help you with the installation. Takes me about five minutes to put an HDD in an MX-1, but the first time is a learning process and takes a bit longer.
> 
> Rich


.

Rich,
Just thought of something.What brand of HDDs are we seeing from the factory with HR20-700s?If there are any WDs,are they jumpered(or in some way running at 1.5gbs?).Or are they all Seagates?

Could explain a few things.....or not!

.


----------



## knoxbh

I have a real problem. Have 2 HD DVRs in living room, both with external hard drives (located on open shelves). Recently started having trouble with the bottom HD DRV which will operate properly for maybe an hour or so and then totally freeze up, picture & sound, and nothing can be done with the remote. Also have a HD DVR in the kitchen. Now, have swapped out the kitchen HD DVR with the one in the living room and the same thing happens, except when the HD DVR is placed in the kitchen with the external hard drive, they work o.k.Have done total swaps with the kitchen & living room HD DVRs and hard drives (as you would when rotating tires - criss-crossed) and same results. Also bought new esata cables with same results also. NOW, if you remove either of the external hard drives from either of the HD DVRs while in the living room location, the HD DVR works great. What in the devil is wrong? My wife thinks it might be the incoming cables from the antenna but I don't see how that would have any effect on what we are experiencing now. Can anyone help, please?


----------



## Rich

Volman said:


> [
> 
> .
> 
> Rich,
> Just thought of something.What brand of HDDs are we seeing from the factory with HR20-700s?If there are any WDs,are they jumpered(or in some way running at 1.5gbs?).Or are they all Seagates?
> 
> Could explain a few things.....or not!
> 
> .


All the 20-700s that I've had apart have had the original 300G Seagate drives running at 3Gbs. No jumpers and that's the only way that you can change the transfer speed as far as I know. The original 20-700s from Mexico and the newer ones from China used the same internal drive.

Rich


----------



## Rich

knoxbh said:


> I have a real problem. Have 2 HD DVRs in living room, both with external hard drives (located on open shelves). Recently started having trouble with the bottom HD DRV which will operate properly for maybe an hour or so and then totally freeze up, picture & sound, and nothing can be done with the remote. Also have a HD DVR in the kitchen. Now, have swapped out the kitchen HD DVR with the one in the living room and the same thing happens, except when the HD DVR is placed in the kitchen with the external hard drive, they work o.k.Have done total swaps with the kitchen & living room HD DVRs and hard drives (as you would when rotating tires - criss-crossed) and same results. Also bought new esata cables with same results also. NOW, if you remove either of the external hard drives from either of the HD DVRs while in the living room location, the HD DVR works great. What in the devil is wrong? My wife thinks it might be the incoming cables from the antenna but I don't see how that would have any effect on what we are experiencing now. Can anyone help, please?


Wow! That's confusing. But, I was having those same kind of problems from the time I got my first HR in Nov. of '06 until April of '08 when D* finally finished a four month long redo of my whole system. Wasn't the HRs or my eSATAs that were at fault, but it was a really crappy initial installation and several really poor attempts to fix the initial installation.

Finally, the Case Management Group stepped in and had the whole system, from the dish to the HRs rebuilt, recabled and then had several dish realignments and had an additional dish installed and all has been well since.

Don't know if this helps, but it worked for me.

Rich


----------



## Volman

Rich,

That would make me think that the Antec MX-1,which supposedly uses a 1.5Gbs chipset,is the determinant in using a jumper.If you add together your success with Seagates at 3.0Gbs and CCarncross's use of jumpered EADs,it leads me toward that conclusion.

Until we get concrete info on whether the HR20-700,in fact,runs at 1.5Gbs instead of 3.0Gbs........I can see no other conclusion.

Here is a blurb from the chip-maker "The Sunplus SPIF215A is a single-chip solution for USB to Serial-ATA(SATA) host bridge. It has a USB high-speed device port and a SATA 1.5G host port"







.


----------



## harsh

knoxbh said:


> I have a real problem.


Sounds like the problem may be temperature related. My next guess would be wimpy line power.


----------



## knoxbh

I wish it were temperature but it is on an open shelf and nothing but air around it. Now how do I correct the problem if it is "wimpy power" supply? We did have it plugged into a UPS but had already thought it could be that and unplugged it from the UPS and into a new power strip. Still the same problem.

With 4 other HD DVRs and 3 HD receivers working fine in various rooms, really don't think we need a complete system check up at this point. All HD and SD PQ if excellent and all signal strengths are in the 90s and all transponders. Maybe my wife is right - we might try swapping around cables on that particular HD DVR and see what happens.

Anybody else got any ideas? Thanks to do those who have replied. I appreciate your help.


----------



## CT_Wiebe

I haven't read this entire thread, but I had been using both 1.0TB and 1.5TB WDxxEADS drives in Antec MX-1 enclosures for several years (HR20-700) -- only one at a time.

After the previous FW update (2 issues ago) my ESATA drives stopped working. I was worried that I had a HR20 ESATA connector failure (the internal drive continues to work fine). At that time I noticed this thread (the original post #1) and had purchased a ST31000SCA109-RK drive. I finally got around to hooking it up tonight, and it works like a charm.

After coming back here (after a long hiatus) I now noticed that the Seagate drive is no longer on the recommended list. I hope it will continue to work.

It's interesting to note that some of you are continuing to have good luck with the EADS drives. I really like them, and the MX-1 enclosures are really nice too (they run both cool and quiet). I wonder if there is something in the MX-1 interface that my HR20, with the latest FW updates, has become non-compatible.


----------



## harsh

knoxbh said:


> Now how do I correct the problem if it is "wimpy power" supply?


Run a beefy extension cord to another outlet (preferably on a different circuit).

Note that you can't depend on reason to eliminate a possibility. Some things simply have to be tested.


----------



## Volman

CT_Wiebe said:


> I haven't read this entire thread, but I had been using both 1.0TB and 1.5TB WDxxEADS drives in Antec MX-1 enclosures for several years (HR20-700) -- only one at a time.
> 
> After the previous FW update (2 issues ago) my ESATA drives stopped working. I was worried that I had a HR20 ESATA connector failure (the internal drive continues to work fine). At that time I noticed this thread (the original post #1) and had purchased a ST31000SCA109-RK drive. I finally got around to hooking it up tonight, and it works like a charm.
> 
> After coming back here (after a long hiatus) I now noticed that the Seagate drive is no longer on the recommended list. I hope it will continue to work.
> 
> It's interesting to note that some of you are continuing to have good luck with the EADS drives. I really like them, and the MX-1 enclosures are really nice too (they run both cool and quiet). I wonder if there is something in the MX-1 interface that my HR20, with the latest FW updates, has become non-compatible.


This just gets more confusing:

1-There are positive reports on HR-700s + Antec MX-1
2-Reports that this combination fails to work.
3-Reports that the EADS drives work when installed inside the receiver
4-Reports that the EADS needs to be jumpered to 1.5 Gbs

I anyone using the WDxxEADS in an external enclosure other than the MX-1 with good results?

Fred


----------



## Podkayne

I have a pair of the WD10eads drives in a Vantec MX enclosure set to JBOD for a 2TB array hooked up to an HR20-100. There have been no issues, other than that I probably put too much storage on this thing...I never get lower than 65% free on the esata array! 1 TB would have been sufficient.


----------



## Rich

knoxbh said:


> I have a real problem. Have 2 HD DVRs in living room, both with external hard drives (located on open shelves). Recently started having trouble with the bottom HD DRV which will operate properly for maybe an hour or so and then totally freeze up, picture & sound, and nothing can be done with the remote. Also have a HD DVR in the kitchen. Now, have swapped out the kitchen HD DVR with the one in the living room and the same thing happens, except when the HD DVR is placed in the kitchen with the external hard drive, they work o.k.Have done total swaps with the kitchen & living room HD DVRs and hard drives (as you would when rotating tires - criss-crossed) and same results. Also bought new esata cables with same results also. NOW, if you remove either of the external hard drives from either of the HD DVRs while in the living room location, the HD DVR works great. What in the devil is wrong? My wife thinks it might be the incoming cables from the antenna but I don't see how that would have any effect on what we are experiencing now. Can anyone help, please?


Which HRs are they? HR2x-xxx? And which eSATAs?

Need more info, just read your last post and you're right about the "system", I think. You might just have a bad HR or eSATA.

Rich


----------



## Volman

Podkayne said:


> I have a pair of the WD10eads drives in a Vantec MX enclosure set to JBOD for a 2TB array hooked up to an HR20-100. There have been no issues, other than that I probably put too much storage on this thing...I never get lower than 65% free on the esata array! 1 TB would have been sufficient.


That's good to know.I have a Vantec NexStar hard drive dock that I'll try if the "Antec MX-1" is a problem.................the "Antec/Vantec" thing is confusing!

Thanks,Fred


----------



## Rich

Volman said:


> That's good to know.I have a Vantec NexStar hard drive dock that I'll try if the "Antec MX-1" is a problem.................the "Antec/Vantec" thing is confusing!
> Thanks,Fred


I've been tempted to try one of those docks. If you try it, let me know how it works. Noise abatement would seem to be a problem just looking at them.

Rich


----------



## Volman

rich584 said:


> I've been tempted to try one of those docks. If you try it, let me know how it works. Noise abatement would seem to be a problem just looking at them.
> 
> Rich


Hey,Rich 
I have been using one as a backup HDD for my PC with a 500GB WD HDD for a good while.The HD is partly exposed,of course.Though that doesn't matter to me,it could be a problem for touching by small children.It is passively cooled,but 2/3 of the HD is fully exposed.One could blow a little air across it with a case fan if they think that's a concern.

Otherwise,it works well.I have not repeatedly inserted/removed HDDs as I'm sure is done by some users.It has a push-button that pops the drive right out.

It may well work with a DTV as an eSata enclosure.There is also a Thermaltake branded version.If the Antec MX-1 fails to work,I'll sure give this a try and will post the results.

Fred

.


----------



## ejjames

I recently ordered the MX-1 to go along with my new Samsung Eco-Green 1.5TB drive. Any bets on whether or not this combo will work with my 20-700?


----------



## Volman

ejjames said:


> I recently ordered the MX-1 to go along with my new Samsung Eco-Green 1.5TB drive. Any bets on whether or not this combo will work with my 20-700?


No clue!But,good luck......and please post your results!

My WD10EADS and MX-1 are due here any day.I'll post,too.

Fred

.


----------



## CCarncross

ejjames said:


> I recently ordered the MX-1 to go along with my new Samsung Eco-Green 1.5TB drive. Any bets on whether or not this combo will work with my 20-700?


We know the MX-1 will work, as long as the drive is straight SATA drive without any of the funky newer tech in it, it should work fine....


----------



## Rich

Volman said:


> Hey,Rich
> I have been using one as a backup HDD for my PC with a 500GB WD HDD for a good while.The HD is partly exposed,of course.Though that doesn't matter to me,it could be a problem for touching by small children.It is passively cooled,but 2/3 of the HD is fully exposed.One could blow a little air across it with a case fan if they think that's a concern.


I wondered about kids, or me, accidentally touching the exposed portion. What about noise?



> Otherwise,it works well.I have not repeatedly inserted/removed HDDs as I'm sure is done by some users.It has a push-button that pops the drive right out.


I don't think that feature would work with an HR. I've read about them, but haven't tried one.



> It may well work with a DTV as an eSata enclosure.There is also a Thermaltake branded version.If the Antec MX-1 fails to work,I'll sure give this a try and will post the results.


The Thermaltake was the first one I read about. Seemed strange, being exposed like that.

Rich


----------



## Rich

CCarncross said:


> We know the MX-1 will work, as long as the drive is straight SATA drive without any of the funky newer tech in it, it should work fine....


Awww. What "funky new tech"?

Rich


----------



## Volman

rich584 said:


> I wondered about kids, or me, accidentally touching the exposed portion. What about noise?
> 
> .
> 
> I don't think that feature would work with an HR. I've read about them, but haven't tried one.
> 
> The Thermaltake was the first one I read about. Seemed strange, being exposed like that.
> 
> Rich


Actually noise seems to be about the same as those in an enclosure.But I may have a quiet HDD.I've only had this one HDD in it,so nothing to compare to.I'd guess about like a FAP or Xtreme.

I wouldn't use that feature for a DVR(popup).

The Thermaltake may be a little more solid than the Vantec.....and a little more of the HDD is exposed.I have no idea which would be better in a DVR,or if they will even work.As an eSata for a PC,it's great.

Fred

.


----------



## Rich

Volman said:


> Actually noise seems to be about the same as those in an enclosure.But I may have a quiet HDD.I've only had this one HDD in it,so nothing to compare to.I'd guess about like a FAP or Xtreme.
> 
> I wouldn't use that feature for a DVR(popup).
> 
> The Thermaltake may be a little more solid than the Vantec.....and a little more of the HDD is exposed.I have no idea which would be better in a DVR,or if they will even work.As an eSata for a PC,it's great.
> 
> Fred


OK, now I'm off to argue about audio on another thread. I'm going nuts. 

Rich


----------



## CCarncross

rich584 said:


> Awww. What "funky new tech"?
> 
> Rich


Like that goofy stuff that makes the new EARS drives not work....


----------



## knoxbh

Rich 584:
We have (in the problem configuration) the following:

HR22-100
HR20-700
MX-1 w/WD15EADS 1.5TB
Cavalry CAXM37750 750GB

No matter which swapping we do with the above combination of HDDVRs and hard drives, the same results occur. In the living room, the HDDVRs work fine without the external hard drives (either one) - when you connect the external hard drive(s), after an certain amount of time (no specific set time), the HDDVR freezes and nothing will start it up until the external hard drive is disconnected. When placed in the kitchen in ANY combination of the above, everything works perfectly. So from that, we assume the both the HDDVRs and both the external hard drives work o.k. Admittedly, I am 85 yrs old and maybe not as swift as I should be, but have had electronic equipment for many, many years but this really has me confused. I am also having the acknowledged audio dropouts lately but think that started with a NR last year and hope Directv figures it out - certainly not enough to bother us that much.

Anyway, the above is my configuration. Your mention (or was it Harsh) of the possibility of a power line problem could have something to do with it since the kitchen is on a different line. However, that wouldn't seem the problem since the other HR20-700 and external hard drive in the same room (on another open shelf above the problem one) works perfectly, along with all the other audio/video equipment in the same area.

Hope the above info might enable you or someone else solve our problem. We do have a lot of "stuff" that we record and watch at a later date. 

Again, thanks to all for your help.


----------



## Rich

knoxbh said:


> Rich 584:
> We have (in the problem configuration) the following:
> 
> HR22-100
> HR20-700
> MX-1 w/WD15EADS 1.5TB
> Cavalry CAXM37750 750GB
> 
> No matter which swapping we do with the above combination of HDDVRs and hard drives, the same results occur. In the living room, the HDDVRs work fine without the external hard drives (either one) - when you connect the external hard drive(s), after an certain amount of time (no specific set time), the HDDVR freezes and nothing will start it up until the external hard drive is disconnected. When placed in the kitchen in ANY combination of the above, everything works perfectly. So from that, we assume the both the HDDVRs and both the external hard drives work o.k. Admittedly, I am 85 yrs old and maybe not as swift as I should be, but have had electronic equipment for many, many years but this really has me confused. I am also having the acknowledged audio dropouts lately but think that started with a NR last year and hope Directv figures it out - certainly not enough to bother us that much.
> 
> Anyway, the above is my configuration. Your mention (or was it Harsh) of the possibility of a power line problem could have something to do with it since the kitchen is on a different line. However, that wouldn't seem the problem since the other HR20-700 and external hard drive in the same room (on another open shelf above the problem one) works perfectly, along with all the other audio/video equipment in the same area.
> 
> Hope the above info might enable you or someone else solve our problem. We do have a lot of "stuff" that we record and watch at a later date.
> 
> Again, thanks to all for your help.


Puzzling, it is. I trust you have the Cavalry on the 20-700? And the WD on the 22-100?

Freezing up is usually a symptom of a bad HDD. Not always, but most of the time.

Rich


----------



## AntonyB

knoxbh said:


> Rich 584:
> We have (in the problem configuration) the following:
> 
> HR22-100
> HR20-700
> MX-1 w/WD15EADS 1.5TB
> Cavalry CAXM37750 750GB
> 
> No matter which swapping we do with the above combination of HDDVRs and hard drives, the same results occur. In the living room, the HDDVRs work fine without the external hard drives (either one) - when you connect the external hard drive(s), after an certain amount of time (no specific set time), the HDDVR freezes and nothing will start it up until the external hard drive is disconnected. When placed in the kitchen in ANY combination of the above, everything works perfectly. So from that, we assume the both the HDDVRs and both the external hard drives work o.k. Admittedly, I am 85 yrs old and maybe not as swift as I should be, but have had electronic equipment for many, many years but this really has me confused. I am also having the acknowledged audio dropouts lately but think that started with a NR last year and hope Directv figures it out - certainly not enough to bother us that much.
> 
> Anyway, the above is my configuration. Your mention (or was it Harsh) of the possibility of a power line problem could have something to do with it since the kitchen is on a different line. However, that wouldn't seem the problem since the other HR20-700 and external hard drive in the same room (on another open shelf above the problem one) works perfectly, along with all the other audio/video equipment in the same area.
> 
> Hope the above info might enable you or someone else solve our problem. We do have a lot of "stuff" that we record and watch at a later date.
> 
> Again, thanks to all for your help.


Has the problematic living room configuration always given you the problem from the get-go? Or were your living room units working fine for a long time until just recently? If the latter, consider what may have changed in their vicinity.

Also consider how things are different between your kitchen and the problematic living room configs. The parameters that seem to be different between the living room problematic config and the OK kitchen config include:
- Physical environments are different (which might mean temperature or localized electrical interference are possible culprits in living room)
- 110V Electrical supplies are different, as mentioned by others.
- External connections to the DVRs are different (TV, A/V receiver, network, incoming satellite coax, etc)

You could by trial and error try to eliminate the differences where possible to hopefully narrow down what is the culprit. For example, locate the DVR and its external drive at the problematic living room location, but power both from the kitchen via extension cord. Or connect the living room DVR to the satellite cables used normally in the kitchen via extension coax cables. Etc etc. A lot of work but you might get lucky.

My guess would be that something is causing the hard drive to partially spin down momentarily such as a brief power glitch that occurs on the electrical supply in the living room.

Good luck!


----------



## knoxbh

Rich:

Yes, your statement was correct. Your configuration is exactly as we have it. Both hard drives work perfectly in the kitchen with either of the HD DVRs - no problems at all. And both HD DVRs work perfectly in the living room but not when mated with either external hard drive.

AnthonyB:

Thanks for your input and suggestions. Will give them a try and hope for the best. It appears that all of the equipment is o.k. - except the two external hard drives do not seem to want to work in the living room - they appear to like the kitchen!

Thanks to all for your help & suggestions. If anyone can come with anything else that has not been suggested, please let me know.


----------



## Rich

knoxbh said:


> Rich:
> 
> Yes, your statement was correct. Your configuration is exactly as we have it. Both hard drives work perfectly in the kitchen with either of the HD DVRs - no problems at all. And both HD DVRs work perfectly in the living room but not when mated with either external hard drive.


I wish I could come up with a suggestion. I will say this: Nothing any HR ending in 100 does would surprise me. Why don't you concentrate on the 20-700 and see if you can get that to work? In both rooms. If it only works in the kitchen, then you'll have to find out what the difference is between the kitchen and the living room.

I really doubt if it is a power problem, but an extension cord from the living room to the kitchen is the easiest way to test that. A bad cable or two in the living room might be the answer. Do you ever get the "searching for sats" message in the living room? But that wouldn't cause the eSATA to freeze up.

That Cavalry is only going to last so long, they are the worst eSATAs I've had that worked. If you get more than a year or so out of one, you've done well.

You stated that you have another 20-700 in the living room with an eSATA that works correctly, is that correct? You could try putting the 20-700 you're having problems with on the same cables as the one that's working correctly. If that works correctly, you've probably got a bad cable or two.

Without laying hands and eyes on your units it's really difficult to figure out what's going on, but I'd concentrate on getting one working properly then work with the other one. If you put the MX-1 on the 20-700 and it freezes, that's something I would expect. Don't do that. You've got two 20-700s, concentrate on them.

Rich


----------



## ejjames

ejjames said:


> I recently ordered the MX-1 to go along with my new Samsung Eco-Green 1.5TB drive. Any bets on whether or not this combo will work with my 20-700?


Put these 2 together in my 20-700, and it's working like a champ! Volman, I know you were interested. I may have missed it, how did your rig work?


----------



## Volman

ejjames said:


> Put these 2 together in my 20-700, and it's working like a champ! Volman, I know you were interested. I may have missed it, how did your rig work?


I ordered a WD10EADS off Ebay and they sent an "EARS".....so I'm still waiting.I may try a Rosewill RX 358 like Weaknees uses.

Here's a link to part of a thread about the Rosewill and more: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=92029&page=48

Fred


----------



## Spoffo

I just had a disastrous experience trying to use a Western Digital Caviar Green 1TB drive in an Antec MX-1 with one of my HR20-700s. This was very surprising since I have other WD drive models in the same Antec enclosure working just fine with my other HR20s. 

This time the drive seemed to format and boot up fine, but any operation involving disk access, even just calling up the guide or an info panel slowed to an absolute crawl. Seriously, over 1 minute to execute a simple channel up or to click down more than 1 line in the guide or even just execute a Pause. Also, video playback from the disk was full of breakups and freezes. Completely unwatchable.

This must be an oddball incompatibility between this specific drive and the HR20, since lots of people here report success with the 2TB Green and the Antec enclosure. Also, when I swapped it for the WD Caviar BLack 1TB I was using as the Time Machine drive in my Mac, everything worked fine on both sides. The Black played nicely with the HR20 and the Caviar Green worked fine in the Mac, including HD video playback.

That's why technology is so much fun.

PS: AFTER I wasted the whole afternoon, I discovered a review at NewEgg that reported the exact same problem with this drive and the HR20.:icon_dumm


----------



## Rich

Spoffo said:


> I just had a disastrous experience trying to use a Western Digital Caviar Green 1TB drive in an Antec MX-1 with one of my HR20-700s. This was very surprising since I have other WD drive models in the same Antec enclosure working just fine with my other HR20s.
> 
> This time the drive seemed to format and boot up fine, but any operation involving disk access, even just calling up the guide or an info panel slowed to an absolute crawl. Seriously, over 1 minute to execute a simple channel up or to click down more than 1 line in the guide or even just execute a Pause. Also, video playback from the disk was full of breakups and freezes. Completely unwatchable.
> 
> This must be an oddball incompatibility between this specific drive and the HR20, since lots of people here report success with the 2TB Green and the Antec enclosure. Also, when I swapped it for the WD Caviar BLack 1TB I was using as the Time Machine drive in my Mac, everything worked fine on both sides. The Black played nicely with the HR20 and the Caviar Green worked fine in the Mac, including HD video playback.
> 
> That's why technology is so much fun.
> 
> PS: AFTER I wasted the whole afternoon, I discovered a review at NewEgg that reported the exact same problem with this drive and the HR20.:icon_dumm


Was that an EARS HDD?

Rich


----------



## Rich

Volman said:


> I ordered a WD10EADS off Ebay and they sent an "EARS".....so I'm still waiting.I may try a Rosewill RX 358 like Weaknees uses.
> 
> Here's a link to part of a thread about the Rosewill and more: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=92029&page=48
> 
> Fred


Still haven't got the exchange?

Rich


----------



## Volman

rich584 said:


> Still haven't got the exchange?
> 
> Rich


No.....The company may have gone out of business after 33,000 Ebay transactions!Just my luck....So I'm now dealing with Ebay Resolution Center(arrrrrgggggg!).I'm probably out the $$.Lesson learned!No more Ebay.

But I ordered a WD10EVDS from Amazon........I think they are MUCH safer to deal with than Ebay.They had no "EADS" left,but the "EVDS" seems to be doing well.Already received the Rosewill RX 358,so I'll post my results in a few days.


----------



## Rich

Volman said:


> No.....The company may have gone out of business after 33,000 Ebay transactions!Just my luck....So I'm now dealing with Ebay Resolution Center(arrrrrgggggg!).I'm probably out the $$.Lesson learned!No more Ebay.
> 
> But I ordered a WD10EVDS from Amazon........I think they are MUCH safer to deal with than Ebay.They had no "EADS" left,but the "EVDS" seems to be doing well.Already received the Rosewill RX 358,so I'll post my results in a few days.


Did you buy that EARS with PayPal? They're pretty good at getting your money back if you get screwed.

On the other hand, I agree with you about Amazon. No hassle shopping. No hassle returning anything. And if you pay the $79 a year fee for Prime shipping, you more than make up for the $79 in shipping costs. I even buy groceries on Amazon.

Rich


----------



## CCarncross

Spoffo, we need to know the exact model of teh WD Green drive you were using. A known good EADS, or EVDS line drive will work fine, but EARS drives are not found to work right. There are many different WD Green drive series.


----------



## Volman

rich584
Ebay and paypal are the same company.They are getting hard to deal with.Amazon may be a littlle more $$,but is safe.

CCarncross

I'll wager that Spoffo got an EARS.....there are good reviews for EADS and bad reviews for EARS on the Newegg site.I have an EVDS on the way to put in my Rosewill RX-358 and will post the results soon.

Fred


----------



## Rich

Volman said:


> rich584
> Ebay and paypal are the same company.They are getting hard to deal with.Amazon may be a littlle more $$,but is safe.


I know that they are the same company, but unless you pay with PayPal, you'll play hell getting your money back.



> CCarncross
> 
> I'll wager that Spoffo got an EARS.....there are good reviews for EADS and bad reviews for EARS on the Newegg site.I have an EVDS on the way to put in my Rosewill RX-358 and will post the results soon.
> 
> Fred


Hope that works for you. And we really should warn people about eBay sellers. I trust the auctions, but not the eBay stores.

Rich


----------



## Volman

rich584 said:


> I know that they are the same company, but unless you pay with PayPal, you'll play hell getting your money back.
> 
> Hope that works for you. And we really should warn people about eBay sellers. I trust the auctions, but not the eBay stores.
> 
> Rich


This seller had 33,000 sales and pretty good feedback...........until I decided to bite!!!Paypal actually now handles all Ebay refunds from what I can tell.Ebay is basically forcing you to use Paypal for all purchases(At least I know of no other way to pay any longer).They make it sound like they will protect a buyer with their protection plan.Seems they are not protecting me from a shady seller.I have 500 transactions (with 100% positive) with Ebay,but they are not willing to refund me $85.My opinion,that's because this seller is huge and I'm not.They blame it on a tracking # that the SELLER must supply and won't.

If you have not used a credit card(I did) through Paypal you are probably screwed.They can apparently deny payment even if they know the seller is a crook.I just got nailed with this.I'm done with Ebay and will warn others as often as possible not to use them,or risk losing money.

.


----------



## Rich

Volman said:


> This seller had 33,000 sales and good feedback...........Until I decided to bite!!!Paypal actually now handles all Ebay refunds.Ebay is basically forcing you to use Paypal for all purchases.They make it sound like they will protect a buyer.They are not protecting me from a shady seller.I have 500 transactions (with 100% positive) with Ebay,but they are not willing to refund me $85.That's because this seller is huge and I'm not.
> 
> If you have not used a credit card(I did) through Paypal you are probably screwed.They can and will deny payment even if they know the seller is a crook.I just got nailed with this.I'm done with Ebay and will warn others as often as possible not to use them.
> 
> .


I'm really surprised. I know that they will help you on auctions, never occurred to me that the eBay stores would be different. As I said, I've never used eBay as I use Amazon. Money really doesn't matter, it's the principle that matters. Now that I've seen what you're going thru, I'll stay well away from the eBay stores. They always seemed a bit shady to me anyway.

I guess I've been lucky with my auctions. Never really got screwed buying or selling on either eBay or Craigslist. What I like about Craigslist is that I can go look at the offerings and even use them a bit to see if they work. I've even bought a couple 20-700s from out of state folks. One guy was in Montana and was suspicious when I asked him for the RID number. Had to do a lot of explaining to him about D* and how it worked with owned HRs. He was finally satisfied and I got a really nice 20-700 from him and have stayed in touch with him.

I think your experience with this seller should be written in detail and your opinions should be taken into consideration by folks who are tempted to buy from the eBay stores. I'd even name the seller. If he did it to you, you can bet he did it to others. You've got the audience, I'd use it.

Rich


----------



## Volman

Was not actually an "Ebay Store" just a huge seller.I'm not sure of the difference.This is my 1st bad deal on Ebay after over 500 good ones.But one is enough to make me very leery in the future.There is really no need to give the seller's name as they might change it and go right on selling(they are accumulating neg. feedback,so the word is out!).

Craigslist is my favorite and Amazon will replace Ebay for anything expensive.My advice is to know that you can get screwed and weigh that against lower prices.Deal with folks that have 100% positive feedback only.It may be that Ebay goes out of their way to protect "power sellers",so be careful with those if there are any red flags.

My real problem with Ebay is that they just don't always help,even when it's blatantly obvious who is at fault.I paid for this HDD,got the wrong one,returned it to the seller who totally refuses to communicate...... and Ebay won't refund.


----------



## AJ500

I connected a new Western Digital WD20EADS 2TB drive in a BlacX ST005U docking station to a HR20-100. I don't know if it was necessary, but I partitioned it and NTFS quickformatted it on a PC first. The receiver formatted it the way it wanted it upon booting. So far, no problems.


----------



## Spoffo

CCarncross said:


> Spoffo, we need to know the exact model of teh WD Green drive you were using. A known good EADS, or EVDS line drive will work fine, but EARS drives are not found to work right. There are many different WD Green drive series.


It was indeed EARS, specifically

HD 1T|WD WD10EARS 64M 5K % - OEM

As I said it's working fine in my Mac, including HD video playback, but in the HR20 everything was unbelievably slow, like trying to navigate today's internet on a dial-up modem connection circa 1985.


----------



## CCarncross

Spoffo said:


> It was indeed EARS, specifically
> 
> HD 1T|WD WD10EARS 64M 5K % - OEM
> 
> As I said it's working fine in my Mac, including HD video playback, but in the HR20 everything was unbelievably slow, like trying to navigate today's internet on a dial-up modem connection circa 1985.


No mystery now, since here we already knew due to geometry changes that the EARS drives do not work correctly in the HR dvr's....


----------



## Rich

Volman said:


> Was not actually an "Ebay Store" just a huge seller.I'm not sure of the difference.This is my 1st bad deal on Ebay after over 500 good ones.But one is enough to make me very leery in the future.There is really no need to give the seller's name as they might change it and go right on selling(they are accumulating neg. feedback,so the word is out!).
> 
> Craigslist is my favorite and Amazon will replace Ebay for anything expensive.My advice is to know that you can get screwed and weigh that against lower prices.Deal with folks that have 100% positive feedback only.It may be that Ebay goes out of their way to protect "power sellers",so be careful with those if there are any red flags.
> 
> My real problem with Ebay is that they just don't always help,even when it's blatantly obvious who is at fault.I paid for this HDD,got the wrong one,returned it to the seller who totally refuses to communicate...... and Ebay won't refund.


So, was this done thru an auction or did you just buy it from the "power seller"?

Rich


----------



## Rich

Spoffo said:


> It was indeed EARS, specifically
> 
> HD 1T|WD WD10EARS 64M 5K % - OEM
> 
> As I said it's working fine in my Mac, including HD video playback, but in the HR20 everything was unbelievably slow, like trying to navigate today's internet on a dial-up modem connection circa 1985.


Yup, that figures. I bought one just to see if I could get it to work. And had the same problems you did.

One more time:

*The WD EARS HDDs do NOT work in the HRs!!!*

Rich


----------



## Volman

rich584 said:


> So, was this done thru an auction or did you just buy it from the "power seller"?
> 
> Rich


Auction and he is a "Power Seller".I think that just means he sells a lot(so Ebay likes him) and is supposed to maintain some standards for feedback,etc.


----------



## Rich

Volman said:


> Auction and he is a "Power Seller".I think that just means he sells a lot(so Ebay likes him) and is supposed to maintain some standards for feedback,etc.


Huh. I just checked my feedback and I've got a 100% rating. That's not true. I got some stuff that wasn't what I ordered or wasn't what the offering stated some time ago and posted negative feedback. Naturally, I got negative feedback right back. Last time I checked, which was quite a while ago, I had something like 98.3% positive feedback. I wonder how that happened. How do you go from 98% to 100%? That's not even mathematically possible, I think.

Seems like eBay is playing fast and loose. Didn't used to be like that. So you won an auction and payed by PayPal and you're still getting hosed? Have I got that right? Hope other folks on the forum are paying attention to this.

Rich


----------



## Volman

rich584 said:


> Huh. I just checked my feedback and I've got a 100% rating. That's not true. I got some stuff that wasn't what I ordered or wasn't what the offering stated some time ago and posted negative feedback. Naturally, I got negative feedback right back. Last time I checked, which was quite a while ago, I had something like 98.3% positive feedback. I wonder how that happened. How do you go from 98% to 100%? That's not even mathematically possible, I think.
> 
> Seems like eBay is playing fast and loose. Didn't used to be like that. So you won an auction and payed by PayPal and you're still getting hosed? Have I got that right? Hope other folks on the forum are paying attention to this.
> 
> Rich


You got it!Ebay says they will pay me if I can get a tracking # from the deadbeat dealer......who won't respond to them nor to me.Fedex won't supply the # either.Personally,I think Ebay could easily get the call tag #......Buyer beware is all that I can say.It's Amazon for me on anything over a few bucks!


----------



## hfdpro

Picked up a 1TB eSATA Toshiba external HD from best buy tonight. Installed and formatted fine on my hr20 700.

Cost was $99 plus an eSATA cable.
Model: PH3100U-1EXB


----------



## spunkyvision

Is Amazon (not 3rd party) no longer selling the EADS Drives? I had to get 20EADS from NewEgg today (have to pay tax at newegg, but not at amazon)


----------



## CCarncross

The EADS drives are on their way out, they are being replaced with the EVDS series...


----------



## Rich

spunkyvision said:


> Is Amazon (not 3rd party) no longer selling the EADS Drives? I had to get 20EADS from NewEgg today (have to pay tax at newegg, but not at amazon)


Just checked the Amazon site and they still have the 20EADS for sale. Here's the *link*.

Rich


----------



## Rich

spunkyvision said:


> Is Amazon (not 3rd party) no longer selling the EADS Drives? I had to get 20EADS from NewEgg today (have to pay tax at newegg, but not at amazon)


I see what you mean. Amazon is listing them, but only by other sellers. Since I use Prime Shipping, that would deter me.

Rich


----------



## Volman

Don't buy one off Ebay!You might get the shaft like I just did.Ebay's customer service is horrible.....no totally useless!


----------



## Rich

rich584 said:


> Just checked the Amazon site and they still have the 20EADS for sale. Here's the *link*.
> 
> Rich


I found this *link*. Looks like the EADS is still available for Prime Shipping, just hidden behind a different name. Read the reviews and you'll see what I mean.

Rich


----------



## spunkyvision

Ahh they are sneaky  
Thanks Rich.

So the EVDS works as well as the EADS? I am looking at getting an HR23.
Already use multiple EADS in HR20s and 1 HR21


----------



## Rich

spunkyvision said:


> Ahh they are sneaky
> Thanks Rich.
> 
> So the EVDS works as well as the EADS? I am looking at getting an HR23.
> Already use multiple EADS in HR20s and 1 HR21


From all we've read, the EVDS will work and is specifically for DVRs. I know someone who has a 23 that he owns with a 2TB EADS inside it and he hasn't complained about it at all. The EVDS should work as well with a 23. But that's applying logic and that doesn't always work with these things. I do know that the WD EARS will NOT work with the HRs. Doesn't matter why, just take my word for it, I tried. 

Rich


----------



## spunkyvision

> I do know that the WD EARS will NOT work with the HRs. Doesn't matter why, just take my word for it, I tried.


I also tried and failed 

My HR21 is MUCH faster with the WD20EADS than the stock drive.
Should I wait for an HR24? or get the HR23? I am in no real hurry.


----------



## ejjames

I have a ? about my new 1.5TBdrive. I haven't loaded it with much content yet, and am running about 90% free. Does the dvr tend to use the same sectors , or is it fairly random as to what segments data is written?

thanks,
ej


----------



## Rich

spunkyvision said:


> I also tried and failed
> 
> My HR21 is MUCH faster with the WD20EADS than the stock drive.
> Should I wait for an HR24? or get the HR23? I am in no real hurry.


I think you'll be much happier with the 24, hopefully it's not over-hyped as the 23 was. Lots of folks are complaining about the slowness of the 23s. Altho the only person I know who has a 24 with a 2TB internal (*Richierich*) has not complained about the speed of his 23.

Rich


----------



## Sim-X

Just wanted to report I installed my 2TB WD20EVDS drive over the weekend. So far it works awesome. The copy process went very smooth, took MUCH less time than the EARS drive I had. As rich says, EARS drives DO NOT work well. Although it did copy fine, and the picture did come up, playback was very choppy at times and could hardly even buffer live tv with skipping. Even if for some reason you got it working, save yourself the time and frustration and skip the EARS.

Only reason I got the EARS was I got it for $85 1.5TB. Ended up returning it and going with the best drive I could. The EVDS is manufactured with the intent of being used in a device such as a dvr which is exactly why I went with it. So far so good on my HR22. I am planning on getting an HR24 and using the same drive in that box, hopefully it works fine, I don't see why it wouldn't.

By the way, buy had the best price from reputable dealers. $158, I got mine off eBay rather than the site (same price) so I got bing cash back and eBay bucks.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=400094739549

If anyone is interested.


----------



## BuffaloDenny

Are there any recommended external EVDS solutions out there? I'm just looking at connecting an eSata cable to an external drive, not installing an internal in my leased receiver. My Seagate has failed me twice now.


----------



## Rich

BuffaloDenny said:


> Are there any recommended external EVDS solutions out there? I'm just looking at connecting an eSata cable to an external drive, not installing an internal in my leased receiver. My Seagate has failed me twice now.


Weaknees is using a Roswell (I think that's how it's spelled) for 20-700s. Don't know what model HR you have, but if I was gonna try another enclosure, I'd go with one of those. Try to do a search on the forum for Roswell and see if that works, if not try spelling it differently or look deeper into this thread. I know it's a long thread, but you should find it in the last few pages.

I'd just take it for granted that Weaknees has done their homework and found the best enclosure to use. The EVDS should work with every HR. Whether the enclosure will work with every HR is another story.

I just searched and it's a Roswell RX-358 enclosure.

Rich


----------



## Volman

Close,Rich:It's a "Rosewill RX-358" available at Newegg in black/silver.I'm waiting on my WD10EVDS to arrive on Thursday to put into this enclosure for my HR20-700.I'll post the results later this week.

My week just went crazy yesterday.There was a shooting at the hospital where I do some volunteer work in the Critical Care Unit.Apparently a nut-case thought a doctor had implanted a tracking device in him during an appendectomy ten years ago.So he showed up at the hospital and shot 3 employees(randomly) then killed himself.One employee died.I knew one employee.Just an awful event and totally innocent people.
Fred


----------



## Rich

Volman said:


> Close,Rich:It's a "Rosewill RX-358" available at Newegg in black/silver.I'm waiting on my WD10EVDS to arrive on Thursday to put into this enclosure for my HR20-700.I'll post the results later this week.


Are you going to put the jumper on the HDD? Wonder if Weaknees does that? I did see the two different spellings when I searched, and just grabbed one. Hardly shocking, with my luck, that I grabbed the wrong one. 



> My week just went crazy yesterday.There was a shooting at the hospital where I do some volunteer work in the Critical Care Unit.Apparently a nut-case thought a doctor had implanted a tracking device in him during an appendectomy ten years ago.So he showed up at the hospital and shot 3 employees(randomly) then killed himself.One employee died.I knew one employee.Just an awful event and totally innocent people.
> Fred


That is scary. Lots of nuts walking the streets. At least it wasn't you.

Rich


----------



## Volman

rich584 said:


> Are you going to put the jumper on the HDD? Wonder if Weaknees does that? I did see the two different spellings when I searched, and just grabbed one. Hardly shocking, with my luck, that I grabbed the wrong one.
> 
> That is scary. Lots of nuts walking the streets. At least it wasn't you.
> 
> Rich


I think I'll try without the jumper.It's definitely confusing.Some say the controller will kick the rate to 1.5Mb/s while others say to jumper it.I doubt if many early adopters even knew to use the jumper!


----------



## BuffaloDenny

Thanks for the advice on Rosewill. For those that want basically a plug 'n play solution, is there anything out there that comes with a good drive already in a good enclosure and all you have to do is connect the power and eSata cable?


----------



## Rich

Volman said:


> I think I'll try without the jumper.It's definitely confusing.Some say the controller will kick the rate to 1.5Mb/s while others say to jumper it.I doubt if many early adopters even knew to use the jumper!


Yeah, I know. I just put another Seagate 'Cuda in a 20-700 and it works without the jumper. But the WDs are a different story, I think they need the jumper. Never got a WD to work without the jumpers, but I've got two 2TBs running really well with the jumpers. I do think that the enclosures do, somehow, know to change the transfer rate to fit the HR, but I can't imagine how and I'm not sure I could even understand it if someone explained it to me. Sometimes I feel like this is all too much to deal with, feel like my head's gonna explode. 

Rich


----------



## Rich

BuffaloDenny said:


> Thanks for the advice on Rosewill. For those that want basically a plug 'n play solution, is there anything out there that comes with a good drive already in a good enclosure and all you have to do is connect the power and eSata cable?


Well, I've still got a Seagate Extreme running on one of my 20-700s. Might work on your 20-100. Here's a *link* to Seagate's store. You'll find a couple Xtremes there. I had some trouble with the Xtremes causing a hum in two of my 20-700s and dumped one, the other seems to have stopped causing the 20-700 to hum. Don't have any idea why, but it's trucking right along.

Rich


----------



## THEPOGCBR900RR

rich584 said:


> I just bought the 2TB EADS. Not enough info on the Net to make me want to try an EVDS. I do like to read reviews before I buy and I can't find many and none that relate to DVRs.
> 
> Rich


Got my 2tb Eads, and my mx-1.

Do we have to have any jumpers set on the drive?
Thanks


----------



## houskamp

THEPOGCBR900RR said:


> Got my 2tb Eads, and my mx-1.
> 
> Do we have to have any jumpers set on the drive?
> Thanks


 normaly no..


----------



## THEPOGCBR900RR

rich584 said:


> Yeah, I know. I just put another Seagate 'Cuda in a 20-700 and it works without the jumper. But the WDs are a different story, I think they need the jumper. Never got a WD to work without the jumpers, but I've got two 2TBs running really well with the jumpers. I do think that the enclosures do, somehow, know to change the transfer rate to fit the HR, but I can't imagine how and I'm not sure I could even understand it if someone explained it to me. Sometimes I feel like this is all too much to deal with, feel like my head's gonna explode.
> 
> Rich


Do you have to have any jumpers with the WD 2tb Eads, and the mx-1.
I am about to put all mine todether, and just want to make sure.

Thanks


----------



## Rich

THEPOGCBR900RR said:


> Got my 2tb Eads, and my mx-1.
> 
> Do we have to have any jumpers set on the drive?
> Thanks


Depending on which HR model you have...aw, I don't know. I just don't know. I do know that *CCarncross* has three 20-700s that have the jumper on and they all work. I haven't been able to get a WD drive to work on my 20-700s without the jumper. But the Seagates work without the jumper and I gotta admit I'm confused.

Rich


----------



## THEPOGCBR900RR

rich584 said:


> Depending on which HR model you have...aw, I don't know. I just don't know. I do know that *CCarncross* has three 20-700s that have the jumper on and they all work. I haven't been able to get a WD drive to work on my 20-700s without the jumper. But the Seagates work without the jumper and I gotta admit I'm confused.
> 
> Rich


I have a HR21-100


----------



## Volman

Installed a WD10EVDS in the Rosewill RX-358 enclosure and all went very well.The HR20-700 immediately "saw" the new eSata drive and formatted it.

The Rosewill RX-358 seems to me to be a little noisy.If the fan is turned off (it has a separate fan switch),it is virtually noiseless.I'm using it in a room with high ambient noise,so I really don't care.It does seem to be running VERY cool.I did not jumper the WD10EVDS and it seems fine.I used the eSata cable that came with the Rosewill.


----------



## skibum

OK, so this may be a stupid question, but I just got an new HR 22, hooked up a 2 tb eads with mx-1 (i got it from amazon using the link above, thanks). First I turned on the drive, then I turned on the receiver, and then I had it activated.

My question is, how do I know that the DVR is using the external drive? I didn't see any message saying anything about formatting the drive when I started up the receiver. Should I have seen something like that? 

Is there some way to confirm that the DVR is using my external drive and not the internal one?

Thanks


----------



## Davenlr

If the external has a drive access light, you should see it flickering like crazy. If not, just turn it off next time you reboot, and if all your programs disappear, you know it was working.


----------



## Volman

The amount of available recording space will tell you!A big(2TB) HDD will fill up VERY slowly.Do a search and find out the space on each drive(the OEM vs 2TB).


----------



## Rich

THEPOGCBR900RR said:


> I have a HR21-100


You won't need a jumper.

Rich


----------



## Rich

skibum said:


> OK, so this may be a stupid question, but I just got an new HR 22, hooked up a 2 tb eads with mx-1 (i got it from amazon using the link above, thanks). First I turned on the drive, then I turned on the receiver, and then I had it activated.
> 
> My question is, how do I know that the DVR is using the external drive? I didn't see any message saying anything about formatting the drive when I started up the receiver. Should I have seen something like that?
> 
> Is there some way to confirm that the DVR is using my external drive and not the internal one?
> 
> Thanks


All you have to do is record one program on your internal drive and reboot both the HR and the MX-1. If you don't see the program on your Playlist, you're on the eSATA.

Rich


----------



## camo

BuffaloDenny said:


> Thanks for the advice on Rosewill. For those that want basically a plug 'n play solution, is there anything out there that comes with a good drive already in a good enclosure and all you have to do is connect the power and eSata cable?


Another nice plug and play unit is the Western Digital 1TB (model WDG1S10000). Think I paid 119 shipped from Amazon.


----------



## skibum

Volman said:


> The amount of available recording space will tell you!A big(2TB) HDD will fill up VERY slowly.Do a search and find out the space on each drive(the OEM vs 2TB).





Davenlr said:


> If the external has a drive access light, you should see it flickering like crazy. If not, just turn it off next time you reboot, and if all your programs disappear, you know it was working.





rich584 said:


> All you have to do is record one program on your internal drive and reboot both the HR and the MX-1. If you don't see the program on your Playlist, you're on the eSATA.
> 
> Rich


Thanks for all of your help

I'm pleased to report that I rebooted the HR without the external, and all of my shows vanished, and now they are back, so it must be using the external drive. Now I have to figure out how the hell to fill up 2 TB worth of space. Does anyone know how many hours of HD and/or SD programming my external should be able to hold?

thanks


----------



## Davenlr

On my 1TB, its ABOUT 1% per hour, so double that, and maybe you will get about 1/2% per hour. 200 HRS sound about right?


----------



## Rich

Davenlr said:


> On my 1TB, its ABOUT 1% per hour, so double that, and maybe you will get about 1/2% per hour. 200 HRS sound about right?


No. I don't think there's actually a true set number of hours you get. Seems to depend on the content. I have gotten as many as 40+ hours of MPEG2 on the 300G HDDs that originally came with the HRs. I think it is over or around 500 hours of programming in MPEG4 that you can put on a 2TB HDD. Weaknees lists the 2TB at about 480 hours.

Rich


----------



## Rich

skibum said:


> Thanks for all of your help
> 
> I'm pleased to report that I rebooted the HR without the external, and all of my shows vanished, and now they are back, so it must be using the external drive. Now I have to figure out how the hell to fill up 2 TB worth of space. Does anyone know how many hours of HD and/or SD programming my external should be able to hold?
> 
> thanks


Couple points: You'll get about 500 hours of HD MPEG4 programming, depending on the content, on a 2TB HDD or about 2000 hours of SD programming. That's a whole lot of shows. I had an older 2TB eSATA that I filled up just to see what would happen and it worked as it should. The unsaved shows dropped off to make room for the new shows and an occasional reboot when the HR got sluggish (fill the HDD up and the HRs do tend to "bog down") kept the eSATA running smoothly.

The other point is that the HDDs tend to "bog down" at about 20-30% Available. As I said, a simple menu restart will usually solve this problem. But, the nice thing about large HDDs is that you won't be prone to fill them up and they don't usually get close to the 20-30% Available point. I've got several 1.5TBs, which is really as large as most folks need, that are usually about 50% full. They run really well. When you go down to 1TB, you'll find yourself filling them up and then rebooting a lot to keep them running briskly.

In other words, the larger the HDD, the less problems you'll have unless you fill them up completely, and that's a lot of programming, especially with a 2TB HDD.

Rich


----------



## THEPOGCBR900RR

rich584 said:


> Depending on which HR model you have...aw, I don't know. I just don't know. I do know that *CCarncross* has three 20-700s that have the jumper on and they all work. I haven't been able to get a WD drive to work on my 20-700s without the jumper. But the Seagates work without the jumper and I gotta admit I'm confused.
> 
> Rich


Ok, I can tell that the drive was seen and that the drive on my unit was running. I can tell that it was formatted, and somewhat see that its working from the drive.....BUT

Where do i go to locate the increase in hours seen? All i see in the list in the percent. I would like to see the hours available.

THanks.


----------



## Volman

You cannot see the hours.Just the percent is shown.


----------



## THEPOGCBR900RR

Volman said:


> You cannot see the hours.Just the percent is shown.


Then how can you confirm its going off the drive, and not the one in the unit?


----------



## DogLover

THEPOGCBR900RR said:


> Then how can you confirm its going off the drive, and not the one in the unit?


If you want to confirm:

Record a show.
Do a menu reset. When all the lights go out, pull the power plug. 
Detach the external drive. (Power it down first if it has a way to do this.)
Plug the DVR back in with the external drive detached. You now know you are on the internal drive.
If the recorded show is there, you were always on the internal drive.

You may wish to record a show on the internal drive. That way, you will know if you see that show, you are on the internal.


----------



## shendley

I've had a Seagate Free Agent Pro (750gb) running with my HR20-700 for about 2-3 years now and I think it's on its last legs (lots of pixellation, audio drops that don't appear to be the same others are seeing). I've been reading this thread to get my options and now I'm going back and forth between the Western Digital My DVR Expander 1 TB eSATA Desktop External Hard Drive WDG1S10000VN for $119 and an Antec MX1 enclosure for $49 with a Western Digital 1 TB AV-GP SATA OEM AV Hard Drive WD10EVDS for $89 (all prices are from Amazon). 

Anyway, is there any advantage to the one or the other? I've never used an enclosure before, but it seems pretty straightforward to put a drive in. The MX1 enclosure plus hard drive is $20 more than the WD DVR expander. Any recommendations?


----------



## Rich

shendley said:


> I've had a Seagate Free Agent Pro (750gb) running with my HR20-700 for about 2-3 years now and I think it's on its last legs (lots of pixellation, audio drops that don't appear to be the same others are seeing). I've been reading this thread to get my options and now I'm going back and forth between the Western Digital My DVR Expander 1 TB eSATA Desktop External Hard Drive WDG1S10000VN for $119 and an Antec MX1 enclosure for $49 with a Western Digital 1 TB AV-GP SATA OEM AV Hard Drive WD10EVDS for $89 (all prices are from Amazon).
> 
> Anyway, is there any advantage to the one or the other? I've never used an enclosure before, but it seems pretty straightforward to put a drive in. The MX1 enclosure plus hard drive is $20 more than the WD DVR expander. Any recommendations?


Yes, get a WD EAVS HDD and put that in an MX-1. The EAVS is the only HDD that WD makes that they recommend for DVR use. I do know that the WD EADS also works well with the 20-700s. Both the EAVS and the EADS work with the jumper placed across the 5 and 6 pins on the HDDs. That lowers the transfer rate to 1.5Mbs from 3Mbs. This setup is recognized as the best enclosure + HDD that you can use on a 20-700 by a lot of the members.

I don't know what HDD the Expander uses, but I doubt that it is either an EADS or an EAVS. The EAVS costs a little more than the EADS, but is probably worth the extra cost.

Rich


----------



## shendley

So you'd recommend the EAVS over the EADS? It's six bucks more, so that's no big deal. But I've never worked with an enclosure before and so don't really know what you mean by a "jumper." Are you saying I would need to do something more than the standard installation described in the video here: http://pcwizkidstechtalk.com/index.php/antec-mx1-review.html?

And, by the way, thank for your help with this. One of the main reasons I was thinking of going with the WD plug and play unit (the Expander) is that it's, well, plug and play. But I've installed a new internal hard drive in my old Tivo before (from Weaknees) and can't imagine installing a hard drive in an enclosure could be more difficult than that (and that wasn't that difficult at all!).



rich584 said:


> Yes, get a WD EAVS HDD and put that in an MX-1. The EAVS is the only HDD that WD makes that they recommend for DVR use. I do know that the WD EADS also works well with the 20-700s. Both the EAVS and the EADS work with the jumper placed across the 5 and 6 pins on the HDDs. That lowers the transfer rate to 1.5Mbs from 3Mbs. This setup is recognized as the best enclosure + HDD that you can use on a 20-700 by a lot of the members.
> 
> I don't know what HDD the Expander uses, but I doubt that it is either an EADS or an EAVS. The EAVS costs a little more than the EADS, but is probably worth the extra cost.
> 
> Rich


----------



## Herdfan

shendley said:


> And, by the way, thank for your help with this. One of the main reasons I was thinking of going with the WD plug and play unit (the Expander) is that it's, well, plug and play.


But if you want to copy your recordings off the old FAP, its much easier to do with a separate drive.


----------



## Volman

In my mind,the main 2 reasons for an enclosure are(1)access to the HDD is easy if needed (2)Fan cooling of the HDD.

I think Rich just invented a new "combo model" of WD HDD......the EAVS.The older EADS and newer EVDS all in one.He suffers from "too-may-HR20-700-itis" 

The jumpers may or may not be needed.I just put an WD10EVDS into a Rosewill RX-358 with no jumper and it's doing great.But Rich had to jumper a 2TB WD drive installed as an internal.


----------



## shendley

Although I hadn't seen the EAVS mentioned until Rich's post, I did find it here: http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digit...TF8&coliid=I37WPB6KEK8REM&colid=2FV95I0BYUPHA.

I'm still puzzled by this jumper thing? What is it? Where does it go? How expensive is it? How do you know if you need one?



Volman said:


> In my mind,the main 2 reasons for an enclosure are(1)access to the HDD is easy if needed (2)Fan cooling of the HDD.
> 
> I think Rich just invented a new "combo model" of WD HDD......the EAVS.The older EADS and newer EVDS all in one.He suffers from "too-may-HR20-700-itis"
> 
> The jumpers may or may not be needed.I just put an WD10EVDS into a Rosewill RX-358 with no jumper and it's doing great.But Rich had to jumper a 2TB WD drive installed as an internal.


----------



## reber1b

shendley said:


> I've had a Seagate Free Agent Pro (750gb) running with my HR20-700 for about 2-3 years now and I think it's on its last legs (lots of pixellation, audio drops that don't appear to be the same others are seeing). I've been reading this thread to get my options and now I'm going back and forth between the Western Digital My DVR Expander 1 TB eSATA Desktop External Hard Drive WDG1S10000VN for $119 and an Antec MX1 enclosure for $49 with a Western Digital 1 TB AV-GP SATA OEM AV Hard Drive WD10EVDS for $89 (all prices are from Amazon).
> 
> Anyway, is there any advantage to the one or the other? I've never used an enclosure before, but it seems pretty straightforward to put a drive in. The MX1 enclosure plus hard drive is $20 more than the WD DVR expander. Any recommendations?


I had two FAP's which failed at about two years due to the interface. I removed the drives from each FAP and put them in MX-1 enclosures where they work just fine. Each FAP was hot to the touch whereas the same drives in the MX-1's are so cool to the touch that, if it wasn't for the blue light and the availability of my recordings, I would think they were not running.


----------



## Davenlr

shendley said:


> I'm still puzzled by this jumper thing? What is it? Where does it go? How expensive is it? How do you know if you need one?


Jumper is a little metal shorting bar that slides over two pins on the hard drive control header to connect two pins together. It costs about 5 cents. You need one if you are trying to use a fast drive on a slow controller, and the drives auto detect circuitry fails to recognize this and tries to run the drive 2X faster than the controller can handle it. The jumper slows the drive transfer rate down to match the slower controller.

There is also another jumper that can be used to disable/enable the green features I believe.


----------



## shendley

Okay, that helps a bit. Not sure what the control header is, though. Is that the bit that connects the drive to the enclosure? Also, how often is this jumper needed? Is this the sort of thing where you should just try the hard drive plus enclosure without the jumper first and see if it works?



Davenlr said:


> Jumper is a little metal shorting bar that slides over two pins on the hard drive control header to connect two pins together. It costs about 5 cents. You need one if you are trying to use a fast drive on a slow controller, and the drives auto detect circuitry fails to recognize this and tries to run the drive 2X faster than the controller can handle it. The jumper slows the drive transfer rate down to match the slower controller.
> 
> There is also another jumper that can be used to disable/enable the green features I believe.


----------



## shendley

I remember reading about this, I think, a bit farther back in the thread. Isn't there a video somewhere which instructs you as to how to get the hard drive out of the FAP enclosure, as I remember that it's not easy to do. If I could get it out, though, it would certainly be worth a try. If the hard drive is fine, I'm okay with the storage. I've never filled up 750 gbs.



reber1b said:


> I had two FAP's which failed at about two years due to the interface. I removed the drives from each FAP and put them in MX-1 enclosures where they work just fine. Each FAP was hot to the touch whereas the same drives in the MX-1's are so cool to the touch that, if it wasn't for the blue light and the availability of my recordings, I would think they were not running.


----------



## Davenlr

Well, if you know the transfer speed of the enclosure, and it doesnt match the drive, you can use the jumper to prevent any issues down the road. 

The header on the drive is a small indentation with 6 or 8 pins, which accept jumpers. On older drives there was one for Master, one for Slave, and one for cable select. Each manufacturer is different. Usually its next to the power plug, and has male pins which accept the jumpers.


----------



## shendley

The Antec MX-1 is listed as 3gbps for esata. I don't know what the transfer rate is on the WDEAVS10 or the WDEADS. Anyone know?

One more thing I was just thinking about: is this sort of combination of enclosure and hard drive compatible with other HRs? The reason I ask is that my 20-700 is no spring chicken. It's a first generation HR. Who knows how much longer it'll hang in there.



Davenlr said:


> Well, if you know the transfer speed of the enclosure, and it doesnt match the drive, you can use the jumper to prevent any issues down the road.
> 
> The header on the drive is a small indentation with 6 or 8 pins, which accept jumpers. On older drives there was one for Master, one for Slave, and one for cable select. Each manufacturer is different. Usually its next to the power plug, and has male pins which accept the jumpers.


----------



## Volman

shendley said:


> The Antec MX-1 is listed as 3gbps for esata. I don't know what the transfer rate is on the WDEAVS10 or the WDEADS. Anyone know?
> 
> One more thing I was just thinking about: is this sort of combination of enclosure and hard drive compatible with other HRs? The reason I ask is that my 20-700 is no spring chicken. It's a first generation HR. Who knows how much longer it'll hang in there.


Here's the problem:the chip in the Antec is spec'd at 1.5 GB/s.Some say use a jumper,some say it's not needed.I tried the Rosewill RX-358 with NO jumper and it's fine.The Antec has been used both with/without a jumper by many users with good success.The topic of using a jumper is relatively new to these forums from what I can find.

Here is the info http://www.wdc.com/en/library/eide/2579-001037.pdf

Seriously... regarding the Western Digital HDD nomenclature....the WD10EVDS is the one supposedly spec'd for DVR use.The WD10EADS is discontinued....not sure about the WD10EAVS.Note:these are 3 different drives,so pay close attention to the "EADS" "EVDS" "EAVS" "EACS" "EARS",etc. as there are many versions with similar names.


----------



## Rich

Volman said:


> In my mind,the main 2 reasons for an enclosure are(1)access to the HDD is easy if needed (2)Fan cooling of the HDD.
> 
> I think Rich just invented a new "combo model" of WD HDD......the EAVS.The older EADS and newer EVDS all in one.He suffers from "too-may-HR20-700-itis"
> 
> The jumpers may or may not be needed.I just put an WD10EVDS into a Rosewill RX-358 with no jumper and it's doing great.But Rich had to jumper a 2TB WD drive installed as an internal.


Did I spell *that* wrong too? Mind must be slipping. :lol:

Keep correcting me, I hate to make mistakes like that.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Volman said:


> In my mind,the main 2 reasons for an enclosure are(1)access to the HDD is easy if needed (2)Fan cooling of the HDD.
> 
> I think Rich just invented a new "combo model" of WD HDD......the EAVS.The older EADS and newer EVDS all in one.He suffers from "too-may-HR20-700-itis"
> 
> The jumpers may or may not be needed.I just put an WD10EVDS into a Rosewill RX-358 with no jumper and it's doing great.But Rich had to jumper a 2TB WD drive installed as an internal.


Had to go to Amazon and check and you're right. Disclaimer time:

_The EAVS drives I have been referring to are actually EVDS drives. Sorry for the confusion._

Rich


----------



## Rich

Volman said:


> In my mind,the main 2 reasons for an enclosure are(1)access to the HDD is easy if needed (2)Fan cooling of the HDD.
> 
> I think Rich just invented a new "combo model" of WD HDD......the EAVS.The older EADS and newer EVDS all in one.He suffers from "too-may-HR20-700-itis"
> 
> The jumpers may or may not be needed.I just put an WD10EVDS into a Rosewill RX-358 with no jumper and it's doing great.But Rich had to jumper a 2TB WD drive installed as an internal.


So the Rosewill does change the transfer speed. Huh. I wonder if it does it better than an MX-1. Must.

Rich


----------



## Volman

rich584 said:


> So the Rosewill does change the transfer speed. Huh. I wonder if it does it better than an MX-1. Must.
> 
> Rich


Just wanted to "hassle" you a bit about the confusing names

I put the WD10EVDS into the Rosewill ,plugged it up to the HR20-700,rebooted and off she went.It's been running fine.Makes you wonder why/when a jumper is needed.I know for a fact that some of the controller chips cope with the 3GB/s drives perfectly well with no jumper.I had one ready to go but just didn't need to use it.On the Antec,I don't know with it + the "EVDS".

Fred


----------



## Rich

rich584 said:


> Had to go to Amazon and check and you're right. Disclaimer time:
> 
> _The EAVS drives I have been referring to are actually EVDS drives. Sorry for the confusion._
> 
> Rich


Wait a minute. I just saw *shendley's* post with a link to an EAVS HDD. I think I was referring to the proper HDD? Or was I? Now I'm really confused. Which one has WD recommended for DVR use? The EAVS or the EVDS? Someone help me, my head's gonna explode!

Rich


----------



## Rich

Davenlr said:


> Well, if you know the transfer speed of the enclosure, and it doesnt match the drive, you can use the jumper to prevent any issues down the road.
> 
> The header on the drive is a small indentation with 6 or 8 pins, which accept jumpers. On older drives there was one for Master, one for Slave, and one for cable select. Each manufacturer is different. Usually its next to the power plug, and has male pins which accept the jumpers.


The WDs have eight pins and the Seagates have four pins. Both are adjacent to the power plug which is adjacent to the data plug. The jumpers needed in both cases are the 2mm jumpers.

Rich


----------



## Rich

shendley said:


> The Antec MX-1 is listed as 3gbps for esata. I don't know what the transfer rate is on the WDEAVS10 or the WDEADS. Anyone know?
> 
> One more thing I was just thinking about: is this sort of combination of enclosure and hard drive compatible with other HRs? The reason I ask is that my 20-700 is no spring chicken. It's a first generation HR. Who knows how much longer it'll hang in there.


Here's what *CCarncross* has working on three 20-700s: EADS in MX-1s with the jumpers across the 5 and 6 pins on the HDD. He has stated many times that his setups work perfectly. I've had problems with the MX-1s on 20-700s, but I never used the jumper method.

I'm trying to phase out eSATAs as much as possible and I've put four Seagate Barracudas in four 20-700s and they all work well (each is a 1.5TB HDD, do NOT try the Seagate 2TBs) without a jumper. I had to use the jumpers on the two 2TB WD EADS that I put in my two other owned 20-700s.

*Volman * is using a Rosewill enclosure that must change the transfer speed to match the HR's transfer speed because he doesn't need the jumper.

To add to the confusion is WD's method of naming it's many HDDs. We know the EARS HDDs will not work in the HRs. We know the EADS and EDVS will work in or externally on the 20-700s.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Volman said:


> Just wanted to "hassle" you a bit about the confusing names
> 
> I put the WD10EVDS into the Rosewill ,plugged it up to the HR20-700,rebooted and off she went.It's been running fine.Makes you wonder why/when a jumper is needed.I know for a fact that some of the controller chips cope with the 3GB/s drives perfectly well with no jumper.I had one ready to go but just didn't need to use it.On the Antec,I don't know with it + the "EVDS".


So what about the EAVS? Let's not give up on that. :lol:

Rich


----------



## Rich

rich584 said:


> So what about the EAVS? Let's not give up on that. :lol:
> 
> Rich


Just checked the WD site and they *do* list the EVDS as DVR recommended. My bad.

Rich


----------



## shendley

Okay, I think I've got just about all the info I need now. First of all, I want the WD EVDS rather than the WD EAVS, right? I found this one on Amazon for $89: http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digit...TF8&coliid=I23R5BWZRSNE0Z&colid=2FV95I0BYUPHA. If it doesn't work in the Antec, I can then try the 2mm jumper over the 5 and 6 pins, as shown in the pdf posted by Volman (by the way, thanks for posting that. It helped a lot to be able to see what everyone is talking about). Although I may order the enclosure first and see if I can get the hard drive out of my FAP and see if it could work in the Antec. Of course, all of this assumes that the problems I've been seeing are with the FAP. But it looks like that's the case. I switched back to my internal hard drive day before yesterday and I haven't seen any of the pixellation and stuttering I had been seeing. Probably give it a few more days, though, just to make sure.


----------



## Volman

FAPs have a 5 year warranty.They sent me a new 1 TB Extreme for my dead FAP.




Fred


----------



## Rich

shendley said:


> Okay, I think I've got just about all the info I need now. First of all, I want the WD EVDS rather than the WD EAVS, right? I found this one on Amazon for $89: http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digit...TF8&coliid=I23R5BWZRSNE0Z&colid=2FV95I0BYUPHA. If it doesn't work in the Antec, I can then try the 2mm jumper over the 5 and 6 pins, as shown in the pdf posted by Volman (by the way, thanks for posting that. It helped a lot to be able to see what everyone is talking about). Although I may order the enclosure first and see if I can get the hard drive out of my FAP and see if it could work in the Antec. Of course, all of this assumes that the problems I've been seeing are with the FAP. But it looks like that's the case. I switched back to my internal hard drive day before yesterday and I haven't seen any of the pixellation and stuttering I had been seeing. Probably give it a few more days, though, just to make sure.


Were I you, I'd put that jumper on first. Remember *Volman* uses a completely different enclosure than the MX-1 and we know that you need the jumper if you're gonna use the EADS with the MX-1.

Would be good to know if the jumper is necessary, tho. I don't think you can hurt the HR if you don't use the jumper. First sign of a lockup or any freezing, I'd get that jumper on. It's a 2mm jumper, by the way, and you'll see instructions on the label of the HDD. At least the EADS had the instructions on the label. Fred? Know if the instructions are on the label? They weren't on the EARS that I tried.

On the subject of the FAP, I'd bet that the HDD is still good and I'd definitely try it in an enclosure if you want to see the contents.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Volman said:


> FAPs have a 5 year warranty.They sent me a new 1 TB Extreme for my dead FAP.


What did you have to go thru to get that exchanged? Reason I ask is that I think my last 1.5TB Xtreme is going south. I just put the HR and that Xtreme in a different location and it seems like it's working now, but I would like to exchange it if it's not too much of a hassle, should it go completely.

I'd rather take it apart and see what's inside that Xtreme. But if I can get a new one...

Rich


----------



## Volman

Rich,
No instructions on the label.

If I remember correctly,it was really painless.Go to the Seagate website and it walks you through the return.I sent the 750GB FAP and they returned a 1TB Extreme in a few days.


----------



## shendley

I guess I'll see if I can remove the hard drive from the FAP without damaging the unit. I understand that's the really tricky part. If I can and it doesn't work, then I'll try to return it. But if I wind up breaking the enclosure of the FAP, that's a risk I'm willing to take.



Volman said:


> Rich,
> No instructions on the label.
> 
> If I remember correctly,it was really painless.Go to the Seagate website and it walks you through the return.I sent the 750GB FAP and they returned a 1TB Extreme in a few days.


----------



## Rich

shendley said:


> I guess I'll see if I can remove the hard drive from the FAP without damaging the unit. I understand that's the really tricky part. If I can and it doesn't work, then I'll try to return it. But if I wind up breaking the enclosure of the FAP, that's a risk I'm willing to take.


Others have done it, just take your time. And make sure you have the proper tools.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Volman said:


> Rich,
> No instructions on the label.
> 
> If I remember correctly,it was really painless.Go to the Seagate website and it walks you through the return.I sent the 750GB FAP and they returned a 1TB Extreme in a few days.


Thanx, if that Xtreme locks up one more time, I'll send it back. I would love to take one of those things apart sometime, tho. One of those random reboots caused the problems to start. That's just another of the weaknesses of using an eSATA. You can put them one a UPS, but there's no way to guarantee that the HR and the eSATA will start in the proper sequence after a random reboot. I do have some recordings on that Xtreme that are only on that HDD. Don't know how I managed to do that, but I did.

Rich


----------



## jurples

BuffaloDenny said:


> For those that want basically a plug 'n play solution, is there anything out there that comes with a good drive already in a good enclosure and all you have to do is connect the power and eSata cable?


hi everyone,
been reading the thread for a few pages and it's quickly become evident to me that i'm totally out of my depth. looking to get a suggestion somewhat along these lines:

i have a directv hr20-700
i'd like to get eSATA 1.5 TB external hard drive (the wife's got alligator eyes when it comes to taping and a parakeet appetite when it comes to watching). gotta be something that won't have any issues as far as making noise or staying cool.
looking for something as idiot-proof as possible, preferably just plug 'n' play

i noticed that the tenbox site now has 1.5 TB drives for $450. while, sure, i'd prefer to pay less (who wouldn't?), i'd be willing to pay a premium for something well-made, reliable, and that wouldn't require any sort of formatting, installing, etc. i honestly wouldn't have the first clue about what to do. should i just bite the bullet and pay the premium, or are there other products out there that match the ease, quality, and reliability without high price tag?

thanks!


----------



## CCarncross

Save yourself some money and buy a MX-1 and a large WD EVDS drive...it takes literally 10 minutes or less to put the drive in the enclosure, and then it IS plug and play, no formatting or anything...


----------



## Rich

jurples said:


> hi everyone,
> been reading the thread for a few pages and it's quickly become evident to me that i'm totally out of my depth. looking to get a suggestion somewhat along these lines:
> 
> i have a directv hr20-700
> i'd like to get eSATA 1.5 TB external hard drive (the wife's got alligator eyes when it comes to taping and a parakeet appetite when it comes to watching). gotta be something that won't have any issues as far as making noise or staying cool.
> looking for something as idiot-proof as possible, preferably just plug 'n' play
> 
> i noticed that the tenbox site now has 1.5 TB drives for $450. while, sure, i'd prefer to pay less (who wouldn't?), i'd be willing to pay a premium for something well-made, reliable, and that wouldn't require any sort of formatting, installing, etc. i honestly wouldn't have the first clue about what to do. should i just bite the bullet and pay the premium, or are there other products out there that match the ease, quality, and reliability without high price tag?
> 
> thanks!


I wouldn't spend that much for a TenBox eSATA. That's like buying Monster Cables. Way overpriced. Follow *CCarncross's* suggestion. The MX-1 is so easy to install an HDD in. And the HDD he's suggesting costs about $120. Add about $40 for the MX-1 and that's a big saving. And it will be "plug and play".

Rich


----------



## jurples

thanks for the suggestions, y'all.

i picked up an mx-1 at fry's today and ordered a wd20evds from amazon a few minutes ago. if all goes according to plan i'll be able to get everything set up this weekend. here's hoping i don't ass things up too badly. :grin:


----------



## Rich

jurples said:


> thanks for the suggestions, y'all.
> 
> i picked up an mx-1 at fry's today and ordered a wd20evds from amazon a few minutes ago. if all goes according to plan i'll be able to get everything set up this weekend. here's hoping i don't ass things up too badly. :grin:


You do realize that the possibility of needing a jumper to slow down the transfer speed might be necessary? If the setup freezes or locks up, shut it down and get a 2mm jumper and place it across the 5 and 6 pins on the HDD. They are located next to the power supply port on the HDD itself. If you can't get a 2mm jumper, PM me and I'll send you a link.

Rich


----------



## shendley

I'm expecting my Antec and WD10EVDS from Amazon today. If I need them, can I get the 2mm jumpers at a radio shack or is this a harder item to find than that?



rich584 said:


> You do realize that the possibility of needing a jumper to slow down the transfer speed might be necessary? If the setup freezes or locks up, shut it down and get a 2mm jumper and place it across the 5 and 6 pins on the HDD. They are located next to the power supply port on the HDD itself. If you can't get a 2mm jumper, PM me and I'll send you a link.
> 
> Rich


----------



## Volman

Ebay or if you have any old HDDs around,check to see if one is present on it.


----------



## Rich

shendley said:


> I'm expecting my Antec and WD10EVDS from Amazon today. If I need them, can I get the 2mm jumpers at a radio shack or is this a harder item to find than that?


I've got a couple links around somewhere. Let me look.

Rich


----------



## Rich

rich584 said:


> I've got a couple links around somewhere. Let me look.
> 
> Rich


OK, found one. This one has three different sized jumpers and you get twenty jumpers of each size. Here's the *link*.

The jumper you need will be the smallest of the three.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Volman said:


> Ebay or if you have any old HDDs around,check to see if one is present on it.


Could you post that eBay link, Fred? I know how you feel about eBay, but in this case the link might be of help. I do recommend the kit in the link I sent him. Lots of handy stuff.

Rich


----------



## Volman

rich584 said:


> Could you post that eBay link, Fred? I know how you feel about eBay, but in this case the link might be of help. I do recommend the kit in the link I sent him. Lots of handy stuff.
> 
> Rich


Rich,Best way is to do a search on Ebay for "jumper sata".If I list a link it will be dead soon.I think they run $3-4 shipped and include different sizes.Just make sure some 2mm are included.


----------



## shendley

Thanks for the suggestions, guys. It looks like Rich's link is to an item "currently unavailable," though. Got lots of hits on ebay with "jumper sata" for very low prices. Though I'm sceptical about ebay as well, with something like this, I suspect, it would be hard to go too wrong.


----------



## JeffinSD

I have a Seagate 750GB FAP that I've had for a couple of years and has worked great. About a month ago, it crashed and I lost all of my recordings (it was down to less than 10% free space). After it crashed I rebooted and began using it again. Now when it gets to around 86% free space, recordings start getting dropped and the live tv buffer skips. I assume that it is corrupted or has a bad sector that is impacting its performance. I was wondering if I disconnect it and run a scan disk or defrag on my PC will I be able to plug it back into my D* DVR like it just came out of the box, or should I just assume it's a lost cause and break down and buy a new eSATA drive? I realize, I will lose whatever recordings I currently have and I can live with that being as I already lost hours of HD material during the previous crash.


----------



## Rich

shendley said:


> Thanks for the suggestions, guys. It looks like Rich's link is to an item "currently unavailable," though. Got lots of hits on ebay with "jumper sata" for very low prices. Though I'm sceptical about ebay as well, with something like this, I suspect, it would be hard to go too wrong.


Cheaper on eBay too. Shame that kit is unavailable.

Rich


----------



## Rich

JeffinSD said:


> I have a Seagate 750GB FAP that I've had for a couple of years and has worked great. About a month ago, it crashed and I lost all of my recordings (it was down to less than 10% free space). After it crashed I rebooted and began using it again. Now when it gets to around 86% free space, recordings start getting dropped and the live tv buffer skips. I assume that it is corrupted or has a bad sector that is impacting its performance. I was wondering if I disconnect it and run a scan disk or defrag on my PC will I be able to plug it back into my D* DVR like it just came out of the box, or should I just assume it's a lost cause and break down and buy a new eSATA drive? I realize, I will lose whatever recordings I currently have and I can live with that being as I already lost hours of HD material during the previous crash.


They do come with a five year replacement guarantee. They've been swapping them for bigger Xtremes, from what I've read. Just go to Seagate's site and you'll see the guarantee info.

Rich


----------



## shendley

Just got my Antex MX-1 and WD10EVDS tonight. Installing the hard drive into the enclosure was very easy. My HR 20-700 recognized it right away and it appears to be working well so far (though I've only watched a few minutes of recordings so far). 

Thanks to everybody who replied to my many requests for information. Couldn't have done it without your help!


----------



## jurples

shendley said:


> Just got my Antex MX-1 and WD10EVDS tonight. Installing the hard drive into the enclosure was very easy. My HR 20-700 recognized it right away and it appears to be working well so far (though I've only watched a few minutes of recordings so far).
> 
> Thanks to everybody who replied to my many requests for information. Couldn't have done it without your help!


so, you didn't even need the jumpers? that's encouraging.


----------



## shendley

That's right. No lock ups and such during the setup. Unless there are other problems which might appear later without the jumpers, it appears they were unnecessary in my case.



jurples said:


> so, you didn't even need the jumpers? that's encouraging.


----------



## Rich

shendley said:


> That's right. No lock ups and such during the setup. Unless there are other problems which might appear later without the jumpers, it appears they were unnecessary in my case.


You'll have to look at some recorded programming. That's where the freezeups and lockups occur. At the first sign of either, stop the HDD and get the jumper. Maybe the EVDS has something built into it as the Seagates do that fits the HDD to the DVR's transfer speed, altho I don't recall ever getting a Seagate to work with an MX-1 on a 20-700, they do work internally without the jumper to slow the transfer speed down to 1.5Mbs.

I'd say if you can get thru an hour or two of recorded programming without an issue, you're good to go. The times that I tried, the freezeups were almost immediate, but ONLY on recorded content. I wish you luck.

Rich


----------



## shendley

We've watched a few hours now and no freezeups or lockups yet (assuming you mean here where a recording completely stops for a while and cannot be advanced - more than just pixelation, for instance). So I think we're good without the jumpers.



rich584 said:


> You'll have to look at some recorded programming. That's where the freezeups and lockups occur. At the first sign of either, stop the HDD and get the jumper. Maybe the EVDS has something built into it as the Seagates do that fits the HDD to the DVR's transfer speed, altho I don't recall ever getting a Seagate to work with an MX-1 on a 20-700, they do work internally without the jumper to slow the transfer speed down to 1.5Mbs.
> 
> I'd say if you can get thru an hour or two of recorded programming without an issue, you're good to go. The times that I tried, the freezeups were almost immediate, but ONLY on recorded content. I wish you luck.
> 
> Rich


----------



## Rich

shendley said:


> We've watched a few hours now and no freezeups or lockups yet (assuming you mean here where a recording completely stops for a while and cannot be advanced - more than just pixelation, for instance). So I think we're good without the jumpers.


That's great to know. Finding those jumpers about drove me nuts.

I define "freezeup" as the picture freezing and can be cured by hitting the FF button or the reverse button or the skip or slip buttons.

I define "lockup" as the whole HR locking up and requiring a "hard restart", or pulling the plug, for a minute or so.

Neither of these do the HDDs any good. The lockups are far more serious.

I could never get the MX-1s to work with the EADS HDDs. Never tried the jumper method as *CCarncross* recommends. By that time I was buying HRs on eBay and Craigslist and dropping the HDDs in place of the internals they come with. But I couldn't get the EADS to work without the jumpers even tho the Seagates worked without them. Very confusing.

I wish you the best of luck with your EVDS setup and hope you'll get back to us if you ever experience problems.

Rich


----------



## camo

Just letting everyone know I've been using one of the recommended drives from Directtv, the 1terabyte WDG1S10000. I have 2 of they and if one gets full I'll just plug the other in. They run 119 each shipped on Amazon and do come with the eSata plug contrary to some of the Amazon reviews. 
I like the idea of the 1 terabyte drives versus something bigger. If I have a drive failure I don't loose everything.


----------



## finaldiet

Sorry folks, but I'm late on the jumper thing. I did catch something about the seagate and freezing and pixelation problems. My 750 has been doing both recently. I get this on recordings but not on the channels. I believe what your saying is the 750 itself is causing this. Do I need to change hard-drive? if so, what is the best solution? I guess there is no way to save recordings if I change, buy thats ok. Any help appreciated.


----------



## jurples

just checking in to report my results.

i set up the mx-1 and the wd20evds last night. while it didn't full on lock up or freeze, i did experience audio drops, stuttering, and pixelization on channels with denser feeds like espn during sportscenter (with the headline scroll down the left side and ticker across the bottom); standard def programming showed no effects, and less-dense channels seemed almost uneffected. 

one thing i noticed: as time wore on and more of the schedule guide was downloaded, the glitches seemed to be fewer and less severe (plus the menu / guide got progressively quicker at responding to remote control commands). i just figured that it was like how your internet browser slows down whenever you're using lots of bandwidth for downloads at the same time.

by early this afternoon, with the guide's schedule presumably all but finished, there were still a few minor issues (for example, watching cnn live was fine, but once i got a few minutes behind the glitching kicked in). luckily, i found an old hard drive i had sitting around that had a 2mm jumper pin in it, so i shut down everything and installed the pin a couple of hours ago (the images in that pdf volman posted were a big help!). since then, everything's been perfect.

thanks again to everyone for all the helpful info.


----------



## SWORDFISH

finaldiet said:


> Sorry folks, but I'm late on the jumper thing. I did catch something about the seagate and freezing and pixelation problems. My 750 has been doing both recently. I get this on recordings but not on the channels. I believe what your saying is the 750 itself is causing this. Do I need to change hard-drive? if so, what is the best solution? I guess there is no way to save recordings if I change, buy thats ok. Any help appreciated.


If you are referring to an external Seagate FAP 750, then take a look at this thread: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=175500.

If this is the cause of your problems (likely) and you choose to change enclosures, you will not lose your recordings.

SF


----------



## Rich

finaldiet said:


> Sorry folks, but I'm late on the jumper thing. I did catch something about the seagate and freezing and pixelation problems. My 750 has been doing both recently. I get this on recordings but not on the channels. I believe what your saying is the 750 itself is causing this. Do I need to change hard-drive? if so, what is the best solution? I guess there is no way to save recordings if I change, buy thats ok. Any help appreciated.


Two choices. Buy an enclosure and dig the HDD out of the FAP and install it into the enclosure. You won't lose any recordings.

Or, go to Seagate's website and return it and get a replacement. You might get a larger Xtreme. The FAPs come with a five year replacement warranty.

Rich


----------



## Rich

jurples said:


> just checking in to report my results.
> 
> i set up the mx-1 and the wd20evds last night. while it didn't full on lock up or freeze, i did experience audio drops, stuttering, and pixelization on channels with denser feeds like espn during sportscenter (with the headline scroll down the left side and ticker across the bottom); standard def programming showed no effects, and less-dense channels seemed almost uneffected.
> 
> one thing i noticed: as time wore on and more of the schedule guide was downloaded, the glitches seemed to be fewer and less severe (plus the menu / guide got progressively quicker at responding to remote control commands). i just figured that it was like how your internet browser slows down whenever you're using lots of bandwidth for downloads at the same time.
> 
> by early this afternoon, with the guide's schedule presumably all but finished, there were still a few minor issues (for example, watching cnn live was fine, but once i got a few minutes behind the glitching kicked in). luckily, i found an old hard drive i had sitting around that had a 2mm jumper pin in it, so i shut down everything and installed the pin a couple of hours ago (the images in that pdf volman posted were a big help!). since then, everything's been perfect.
> 
> thanks again to everyone for all the helpful info.


Good move, the problem would have just gotten worse. I'd recommend putting the jumper on first after reading your post. Even tho *Shendley* didn't need the jumper, that's probably not going to work for everybody. The next thing you would have experienced would probably have been freezeups and lockups, which are not good for HDDs.

Rich


----------



## Rich

camo said:


> Just letting everyone know I've been using one of the recommended drives from Directtv, the 1terabyte WDG1S10000. I have 2 of they and if one gets full I'll just plug the other in. They run 119 each shipped on Amazon and do come with the eSata plug contrary to some of the Amazon reviews.
> I like the idea of the 1 terabyte drives versus something bigger. If I have a drive failure I don't loose everything.


Keep this in mind: The bigger the HDD, the less problems you will have. eSATAs run better when over (or should I say under?) 30% Available and the larger HDDs are hard to fill to that point. After you reach that 30% mark, you will see the HR bogging down. When that happens, a simple menu Restart will usually speed the HR up. But you have to keep doing that periodically. Even then, you're putting a load on the HR and that can't be good for the HR.

Rich


----------



## Rich

SWORDFISH said:


> If you are referring to an external Seagate FAP 750, then take a look at this thread: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=175500.
> 
> If this is the cause of your problems (likely) and you choose to change enclosures, you will not lose your recordings.
> 
> SF


How hard was it to dig that HDD out of the FAP?

Rich


----------



## SWORDFISH

rich584 said:


> How hard was it to dig that HDD out of the FAP?
> 
> Rich


A copy of the relevant part of my post in the other thread:



> Removing the FAP drive was easier than I thought it would be. I removed all of the screws on the bottom, then stuck a long screwdriver through one of the bottom vent holes and pried the logo side of the case up. Two of the clips released and I was able to pull the cover with my hands until the other two came off. I then removed the drive and installed it in the MX-1. I powered up the drive, then the HR20. The drive was recognized immediately, my recordings and series links were all intact. Total time from start to finish was 45 minutes.


SF


----------



## Rich

SWORDFISH said:


> A copy of the relevant part of my post in the other thread:SF


Could you have watched your programming and put the FAP back together and returned it for a replacement? I see nothing wrong with doing this, before anyone jumps in with a "how could you do that?". Not the owner of the FAP's fault that the enclosure failed.

Rich


----------



## SWORDFISH

rich584 said:


> Could you have watched your programming and put the FAP back together and returned it for a replacement? .........
> Rich


I'm not sure if I would have been able to reattach the clips properly, but I was careful not to break the case. If my programs didn't play in the MX-1, I was planning on putting the drive back in the FAP enclosure and returning it. Since the drive worked without a problem, I never tried.

SF


----------



## ironduke2010

so, has anyone tried one of the "samsung story station plus" external SATA hard drives? the HX-DE015EB is a 1.5tb unit priced at about $120. thoughts?


----------



## Rich

ironduke2010 said:


> so, has anyone tried one of the "samsung story station plus" external SATA hard drives? the HX-DE015EB is a 1.5tb unit priced at about $120. thoughts?


I've never been a Sammy fan. I do have an HR21-200, which is made by Sammy and it is never a problem, but that is the only Samsung product I've never had a problem with. But that's just me. And with my luck, who knows?

Have you read about the latest Samsung boondoggle? They were putting capacitors in their TVs that were too small and have to be replaced. Lotsa unhappy Sammy TV owners out there.

Rich


----------



## ironduke2010

rich584 said:


> I've never been a Sammy fan. I do have an HR21-200, which is made by Sammy and it is never a problem, but that is the only Samsung product I've never had a problem with. But that's just me. And with my luck, who knows?
> 
> ...


i dunno. the thing gets reasonably good reviews, and i like the fanless aspect, but i don't know if i feel like going with an unknown. the mx-1 / evds combo is the proven solution i guess. and the wd dvr expander is the low cost, low work, proven solution. if only they had that in 1.5tb.....


----------



## Rich

ironduke2010 said:


> i dunno. the thing gets reasonably good reviews, and i like the fanless aspect, but i don't know if i feel like going with an unknown. the mx-1 / evds combo is the proven solution i guess. and the wd dvr expander is the low cost, low work, proven solution. if only they had that in 1.5tb.....


I wouldn't trust the fan-less enclosures. I have had and do have fan-less eSATAs, but I've never tried a fan-less enclosure. I've had a couple of bad MX-1s, so I'm not sure about them either. We've seen several reports about the fans not working in the MX-1s and the two that I had a problem with had other problems. I'm also not sure about the EVDS, never tried one. I do trust the EADS, I have two of them working as internal drives in two of my owned 20-700s and they work really well.

So to sum up, you're thinking of a Sammy enclosure, which I would have doubts about. It's fan-less and that would make me hesitate, and you want to put an EVDS in the enclosure or in an MX-1. I'd have to try an EVDS before I'd recommend one and I'm a little leery about the MX-1s. You might want to consider a Rosewill enclosure.

What model HR are you planning to put the eSATA on? That's important, because the 20-700s need a jumper to slow the transfer rate to 1.5Mbs.

Rich


----------



## Volman

My WD10EVDS is working great on my HR20-700 with the Rosewill RX-358(no jumper).It has a fan,albeit a little noisy.


----------



## Rich

Volman said:


> My WD10EVDS is working great on my HR20-700 with the Rosewill RX-358(no jumper).It has a fan,albeit a little noisy.


I was hoping you'd jump in and tell *Ironduke2010* what your setup was. How noisy is that Rosewill? Can you hear it when you're watching a program? I had an MX-1 that I had to put in another room and run the eSATA jumper cable thru a wall because it was so noisy.

Still haven't seen a post about using the EVDS as an internal.

Rich


----------



## Volman

rich584 said:


> I was hoping you'd jump in and tell *Ironduke2010* what your setup was. How noisy is that Rosewill? Can you hear it when you're watching a program? I had an MX-1 that I had to put in another room and run the eSATA jumper cable thru a wall because it was so noisy.
> 
> Still haven't seen a post about using the EVDS as an internal.
> 
> Rich


It's fairly noisy,but is sitting out in the open.Other owners say it's quiet.It's all fan noise that I'm hearing(you can switch off the fan).It seems to run very cool,so a cabinet to deaden noise would be a big help.

Not seen anything about internal "EVDS" yet either.


----------



## shendley

Almost three weeks ago I switched from a FAP that appeared to be failing to an Antec MX1 enclosure with a WD10EVDS. Life has been sweet since then. I still get the very brief audio drops others report but the mild to very distracting and recurrent pixellation is gone. But today, I experienced something odd. I backtracked on the buffer to watch NFL Live and got very severe audio loses - not just brief half second to one second drops, but audio being lost for several seconds, popping back in for a brief moment, and then being lost again. It was different from the standard audio drops in another way as well. When I get the very brief audio drop, the surround sound image of five speakers goes off with it on my receiver. But that didn't happen here. In fact, I saw the circle of lights on my HR 20 700 go dim except for the one on the top and spin momentarily. 

But here's the weird part: I recorded NFL Live so I played it off the recording and the audio was fine. Since I was still tuned to ESPNHD on the buffer, I backtracked again to see if the audio was still missing when playing off the buffer and it was.

Anyone have any thoughts about this? I'm wondering if I might need to install the jumpers. But what would account for the audio loses being present when playing the program off the buffer as opposed to the recording?


----------



## hdtvluvr

Ok, I have an HP laptop so I purchased a 2-port eSata PCMCIA card, 2 Rosewill RX-358 (black) enclosures and 2 WD20EVDS drives. 

I copied the internal drive on 1 DVR and thought about leaving the new drive in the Rosewill enclosure but in order to copy the other DVR HD, I would have to either purchase a 3rd enclosure or put the new drive in the one that had my copied drive in. I didn't have time to do both that day so I installed the WD20EVDS internally. It was kinda like why not at that point. Besides, one of the enclosures was noisy. Of course that was the one that I had completely put together with the new drive. I just connected the old DVR drive to the other and didn't put all of the covers on. I'm not sure if the other would have been just as loud if it had been completely put together or not.

I liked the Rosewill's better than the Antec because the Rosewill's draw air into the top and exhaust it out the front. The Antec's appear to draw in from and exhaust to the rear of the enclosure. This would put the heat into the back of my cabinet. The Rosewill would exhaust it out the front.

The drive was copied last weekend. The only issue I've had so far was a recording of V asks whether I want to delete or not about 10 minutes into the show. The info says 58 minutes recorded. This may be a software issue.

BTW, I added the jumper. I didn't know if it was needed but I wanted to get the DVR back up and figured it wouldn't hurt to limit it to 1.5 Gbs. 1.5 should be a lot faster than ever needed for the DVR I would think.

This was on an HR20-700. I hope to do my other HR20-700 this weekend.


----------



## poppo

rich584 said:


> I've had a couple of bad MX-1s, so I'm not sure about them either. We've seen several reports about the fans not working in the MX-1s .....


I've probably got 6 MX-1 enclosures and the fan is the weak point. Since it's so quiet to begin with, the fan can fail (and does) and you would not even know it. They are great enclosures but I wish replacement fans were readily available.


----------



## ironduke2010

rich584 said:


> I wouldn't trust the fan-less enclosures. I have had and do have fan-less eSATAs, but I've never tried a fan-less enclosure. I've had a couple of bad MX-1s, so I'm not sure about them either. We've seen several reports about the fans not working in the MX-1s and the two that I had a problem with had other problems. I'm also not sure about the EVDS, never tried one. I do trust the EADS, I have two of them working as internal drives in two of my owned 20-700s and they work really well.
> 
> So to sum up, you're thinking of a Sammy enclosure, which I would have doubts about. It's fan-less and that would make me hesitate, and you want to put an EVDS in the enclosure or in an MX-1. I'd have to try an EVDS before I'd recommend one and I'm a little leery about the MX-1s. You might want to consider a Rosewill enclosure.
> 
> What model HR are you planning to put the eSATA on? That's important, because the 20-700s need a jumper to slow the transfer rate to 1.5Mbs.
> 
> Rich


that fanless samsung is a fanless esata, not an enclosure. the box is aluminum, presumably to help dissipate heat. it gets generally good reviews, but no reviewer has used it on a dvr as far as i can tell.

i'm not too worried about the heat. the cabinet it'll sit in will have a fan blowing into it, and i can probably put it near the fan. i'm more worried about how it performs as the dvr drive. $120 for a 1.5tb esata drive isn't bad, unless it doesn't work...


----------



## Griff

OK, I can vouch for WD EARS drives not working. Installed two 2tb drives (external) along with my two new HR24s and the result was barely watchable live and unwatchable recordings. Thanks to this forum I found that this is a known issue, and I had not done my homework.

I removed the esata drives and the 24s worked perfectly using the internal drives. Amazon is replacing both EARS drives with EVDS drives, should be delivered today.

Gene


----------



## Rich

shendley said:


> Almost three weeks ago I switched from a FAP that appeared to be failing to an Antec MX1 enclosure with a WD10EVDS. Life has been sweet since then. I still get the very brief audio drops others report but the mild to very distracting and recurrent pixellation is gone. But today, I experienced something odd. I backtracked on the buffer to watch NFL Live and got very severe audio loses - not just brief half second to one second drops, but audio being lost for several seconds, popping back in for a brief moment, and then being lost again. It was different from the standard audio drops in another way as well. When I get the very brief audio drop, the surround sound image of five speakers goes off with it on my receiver. But that didn't happen here. In fact, I saw the circle of lights on my HR 20 700 go dim except for the one on the top and spin momentarily.
> 
> But here's the weird part: I recorded NFL Live so I played it off the recording and the audio was fine. Since I was still tuned to ESPNHD on the buffer, I backtracked again to see if the audio was still missing when playing off the buffer and it was.
> 
> Anyone have any thoughts about this? I'm wondering if I might need to install the jumpers. But what would account for the audio loses being present when playing the program off the buffer as opposed to the recording?


I'd put the jumper on the HDD. You get all sorts of strange stuff happening if you have a setup that calls out for the jumper and the MX-1s seem to need the jumper with WD HDDs. I've got my two EADSs jumpered and I never see any problems, but they are internals.

Rich


----------



## Rich

ironduke2010 said:


> that fanless samsung is a fanless esata, not an enclosure. the box is aluminum, presumably to help dissipate heat. it gets generally good reviews, but no reviewer has used it on a dvr as far as i can tell.


I thought it was an enclosure, sorry. I do put a lot of faith in the reviews of HDDs and I always look for a review that talks about what happens when the HDD is used on or in a D* HR.



> i'm not too worried about the heat. the cabinet it'll sit in will have a fan blowing into it, and i can probably put it near the fan. i'm more worried about how it performs as the dvr drive. $120 for a 1.5tb esata drive isn't bad, unless it doesn't work...


I'd stick with what we know works. If I was gonna add an eSATA, whether it was an eSATA out of the box or one I put together, it would have a WD EADS or EVDS in it.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Griff said:


> OK, I can vouch for WD EARS drives not working. Installed two 2tb drives (external) along with my two new HR24s and the result was barely watchable live and unwatchable recordings. Thanks to this forum I found that this is a known issue, and I had not done my homework.
> 
> I removed the esata drives and the 24s worked perfectly using the internal drives. Amazon is replacing both EARS drives with EVDS drives, should be delivered today.
> 
> Gene


I guess we have to do this from time to time:

*The WD EARS HDDs do not work in the HRs.*

Rich


----------



## shendley

Thanks, Rich. I figured that would be the way to go. Hope it helps!



rich584 said:


> I'd put the jumper on the HDD. You get all sorts of strange stuff happening if you have a setup that calls out for the jumper and the MX-1s seem to need the jumper with WD HDDs. I've got my two EADSs jumpered and I never see any problems, but they are internals.
> 
> Rich


----------



## Rich

shendley said:


> Thanks, Rich. I figured that would be the way to go. Hope it helps!


You're welcome. Better to be safe and not screw up the HDD. Remember, we do know that the Rosewill enclosure does not require the jumper and seems to be a good alternative to the MX-1 when using a 20-700. Please let us know if that jumper stops your problems.

Rich


----------



## Volman

rich584 said:


> You're welcome. Better to be safe and not screw up the HDD. Remember, we do know that the Rosewill enclosure does not require the jumper and seems to be a good alternative to the MX-1 when using a 20-700. Please let us know if that jumper stops your problems.
> 
> Rich


Rich,
It would still be great to get someone who's using the Weaknees eSata(Rosewill RX-358 enclosure) to look inside for a jumper.I'll bet there is NOT one present.

Do you know where the use of a jumper on these Sata's originated on these forums?Who came up with the idea?

Fred


----------



## Rich

Volman said:


> Rich,
> It would still be great to get someone who's using the Weaknees eSata(Rosewill RX-358 enclosure) to look inside for a jumper.I'll bet there is NOT one present.
> 
> Do you know where the use of a jumper on these Sata's originated on these forums?Who came up with the idea?
> 
> Fred


*CCarncross* was the first member I paid attention to. He used them with WD HDDs in three MX-1s and they all work well.

I agree with you about Weaknees not using the jumper. Maybe that Rosewill is just better than the MX-1s.

Rich


----------



## Volman

Could be better than the MX-1......or just synergistic with the HR20-700.I thought CCarncross was 1st with the jumper,and that is a recent development.

Fred


----------



## Rich

Volman said:



> Could be better than the MX-1......or just synergistic with the HR20-700.I thought CCarncross was 1st with the jumper,and that is a recent development.
> 
> Fred


I think I read some posts about those jumpers before I finally gave up and listened to *CCarncross*, but I don't remember. I do give credit to *CCarncross* for being the most persuasive. At the time, I was more interested in Seagates and had had no luck with WDs. Now, I wouldn't even consider a Seagate.

I truly think that if the MX-1 was better than the Rosewill, Weaknees would be using the MX-1. That's really not much to base an opinion on, but I do have a measure of faith in the good folks at Weaknees. The capper would be if someone would put a Seagate in a Rosewill and it worked with a 20-700. I don't recall ever being able to do that with an MX-1.

Did you ever take an MX-1 apart after using it for a few months? I don't recall ever seeing that much dust in any components. Maybe that's good, I dunno.

Rich


----------



## Volman

In any event,early adopters of the MX-1 seemed to have good success with the Antec MX-1 and NO jumpers.More recently it has been a mixed bag.
What we know:
1-It's a known fact that at least 2 different chips have been used in MX-1s.Both are spec's at 1.5GBs by the chip-maker(but Antec states on the MX-1 box that it is good to 3 GBS).
2-Newer hard drives have had mixed success as both esata and internal sata on HR20-700
3-Weaknees seems to like the Rosewill RX-358.
4-Success has been had with HDDs from several manufacturers.
5-We don't know if there are differences in HR20-700s.
I don't see a consensus as to jumper useage.


----------



## Rich

Volman said:


> In any event,early adopters of the MX-1 seemed to have good success with the Antec MX-1 and NO jumpers.More recently it has been a mixed bag.
> What we know:
> 1-It's a known fact that at least 2 different chips have been used in MX-1s.Both are spec's at 1.5GBs by the chip-maker(but Antec states on the MX-1 box that it is good to 3 GBS).
> 2-Newer hard drives have had mixed success as both esata and internal sata on HR20-700
> 3-Weaknees seems to like the Rosewill RX-358.
> 4-Success has been had with HDDs from several manufacturers.
> 5-We don't know if there are differences in HR20-700s.
> I don't see a consensus as to jumper useage.


I did try the jumper on a Seagate used as an internal in a 20-700. The 20-700 only has four pins and the jumper seemed to make no difference. I think I'll try one again and see exactly what happens and get back to everyone.

The one thing I've never understood is why the WDs run so well with the jumper and so poorly without it and the Seagates run in the 20-700 without the jumper.

Rich


----------



## shendley

Got the jumper on the hard drive and it's been performing well so far, though there was one odd thing. About thirty minutes after restarting the HR20 with the newly jumpered hard drive, the HR20 went back to the internal hard drive. I checked the connections and they seemed tight. When I restarted it, it recognized the external hard drive again and things have been good since. But I'm keeping an eye on it as I've never seen it spontaneously default back to the internal hard drive after having recognized the external. Hopefully, it's just a one time fluke.



rich584 said:


> You're welcome. Better to be safe and not screw up the HDD. Remember, we do know that the Rosewill enclosure does not require the jumper and seems to be a good alternative to the MX-1 when using a 20-700. Please let us know if that jumper stops your problems.
> 
> Rich


----------



## elixir26

I had my HR24 upgrade today but could not lay my hands on a WD20EADS for the eSATA enclosure. I generally don't toss money at Best Buys, but they had a WD20000CSRTL in stock for a Newegg type price, so I took the plunge. It booted right up in the AZiO ENC311SU31 enclosure. (My enclosure of choice) And is running cool and quietly. Time will tell how it holds up but it does work.


----------



## Rich

shendley said:


> Got the jumper on the hard drive and it's been performing well so far, though there was one odd thing. About thirty minutes after restarting the HR20 with the newly jumpered hard drive, the HR20 went back to the internal hard drive. I checked the connections and they seemed tight. When I restarted it, it recognized the external hard drive again and things have been good since. But I'm keeping an eye on it as I've never seen it spontaneously default back to the internal hard drive after having recognized the external. Hopefully, it's just a one time fluke.


That usually happens if the eSATA jumper cable is not seated securely in the ports. Putting the jumper cables in the opposite way usually clears that up. Don't understand why, but it's happened to me a couple times and reversing the jumper cable always cleared it up.

Rich


----------



## Rich

elixir26 said:


> I had my HR24 upgrade today but could not lay my hands on a WD20EADS for the eSATA enclosure. I generally don't toss money at Best Buys, but they had a WD20000CSRTL in stock for a Newegg type price, so I took the plunge. It booted right up in the AZiO ENC311SU31 enclosure. (My enclosure of choice) And is running cool and quietly. Time will tell how it holds up but it does work.


That is an EADS HDD. It's just the packaging that's different. I think that's the only EADS you can still get on Amazon.com and they've managed to hide it pretty well. I found it by reading the reviews.

Rich


----------



## shendley

Thanks. That's good to know. So far the issue hasn't occurred again, but if it does, I'll do that.



rich584 said:


> That usually happens if the eSATA jumper cable is not seated securely in the ports. Putting the jumper cables in the opposite way usually clears that up. Don't understand why, but it's happened to me a couple times and reversing the jumper cable always cleared it up.
> 
> Rich


----------



## cbabec

Does anyone know how to reformat a WD Dvr expander esata external drive. Directv had to replace my box and I can't get it to reformat


----------



## Davenlr

Plug it into a computer and remove all the partitions, then plug it back into the DVR.


----------



## Sam-SS

I have two DirecTV HR24 DVRs, each equipped with a Thermaltake external eSATA enclosure. One unit has a
WD15EADS 1.5tb drive and the other a WD20EADS 2tb drive. The first one has been working fine for quite a long time whereas the second one has had problems right from the git-go. Oh, they both run quite cool in their enclosures.

What it does is to have skips or blips in both the audio and video but not necessarily at the same time. It does it when viewing TV as well as when recording or playing back recorded stuff. Also, it is subject to having the remote freeze when using it to peruse the channel list or the recorded list, this usually starts again after a minute or two but sometimes not at all (requiring a reboot).

I switched back to the internal drive and all of the problems ceased. Then I reinstalled a Hitachi
Deskstar 1tb drive that I had used for a year or so and found that it also works fine.

I have read something about installing a jumper on the 
WD20EADS but did not find where it said which jumper. Is this worth a try or should I conclude that the WD drive is bad and try and return it? Oh, the WD 1.5tb drive does not have a jumper and has always worked just fine.

Any help or insight to this would be greatly appreciated.

...>>Sam


----------



## Volman

Absolutely try a jumper first.Have you switched your 2 Thermaltake enclosures to see if one of those is the problem?

link to WD jumpers: http://www.wdc.com/en/library/eide/2579-001037.pdf


----------



## THEPOGCBR900RR

Volman said:


> Absolutely try a jumper first.Have you switched your 2 Thermaltake enclosures to see if one of those is the problem?
> 
> link to WD jumpers: http://www.wdc.com/en/library/eide/2579-001037.pdf





Volman said:


> Absolutely try a jumper first.Have you switched your 2 Thermaltake enclosures to see if one of those is the problem?
> 
> link to WD jumpers: http://www.wdc.com/en/library/eide/2579-001037.pdf


Where can you put a jumper? I ran a WD20eads for 5 months with out any problems, but now im getting the problems SAM is having.

Thanks


----------



## Davenlr

Option 1: Jumper across pins 5 and 6 (counting from the power connector to the left). Switches from 300 to 150mb/s


----------



## THEPOGCBR900RR

THEPOGCBR900RR said:


> Where can you put a jumper? I ran a WD20eads for 5 months with out any problems, but now im getting the problems SAM is having.
> 
> Thanks


Daa, i feel dumb. I knew where the jumpers on a HD were. I just didnt think the WD20EADS had slots. Never paid attention to them, just put them in the enclosure. Guess ill have to check that out. To bad they dont come with them, ill have to go and get some jumpers from radio shack.


----------



## Rich

THEPOGCBR900RR said:


> Daa, i feel dumb. I knew where the jumpers on a HD were. I just didnt think the WD20EADS had slots. Never paid attention to them, just put them in the enclosure. Guess ill have to check that out. To bad they dont come with them, ill have to go and get some jumpers from radio shack.


I kinda doubt that the jumpers are gonna help. Can't hurt to try them, but I really doubt that is the problem. Sounds like the HDD might be bad. If you can still return it, that's probably the best solution. The EADS HDDs have a picture of the jumper pins on the label, by the way. The 24s should be running at a transfer speed of 3Mbs and the jumper is just gonna knock it down to 1.5Mbs and that's not gonna work. I think. The only HRs that need the jumper are the 20-700s. I think.

Rich


----------



## Sam-SS

Well, I installed the OPT1 jumper on my WD20EADS drive and so far it appears that all of my problems are gone. So far, no blips or skips in the audio/video and no more lockups in the remote. I will know for sure after a few days of operation. I will post any change.

I was concerned that the reduction in transfer speed would show up in lagging operation of the remote when scrolling down lists but this is not occurring. So, my preliminary take on this is that the HR24 does not need and can not use the 3mbps speed. Further, with the WD Caviar HD20EADS Green drive, running at full speed can cause some problems. However, as I mentioned before, I am running a HD15EADS on a different HR24 without jumper and this one is working fine and has for many months.

On another subject, I have read some concern about running fanless external cases such as my Thermaltake. I just checked the case outside temperature and it measures 94 degrees. Also,
with this drive, it is totally silent and can not be heard at all over the TV audio. All I can say is that "it works for me".

Thanks much for the input. It has been a real help.

I will be posting a separate thread about some RF remote problems that have recently developed.

...>>Sam


----------



## Rich

Sam-SS said:


> Well, I installed the OPT1 jumper on my WD20EADS drive and so far it appears that all of my problems are gone. So far, no blips or skips in the audio/video and no more lockups in the remote. I will know for sure after a few days of operation. I will post any change.
> 
> I was concerned that the reduction in transfer speed would show up in lagging operation of the remote when scrolling down lists but this is not occurring. So, my preliminary take on this is that the HR24 does not need and can not use the 3mbps speed. Further, with the WD Caviar HD20EADS Green drive, running at full speed can cause some problems. However, as I mentioned before, I am running a HD15EADS on a different HR24 without jumper and this one is working fine and has for many months.
> 
> On another subject, I have read some concern about running fanless external cases such as my Thermaltake. I just checked the case outside temperature and it measures 94 degrees. Also,
> with this drive, it is totally silent and can not be heard at all over the TV audio. All I can say is that "it works for me".
> 
> Thanks much for the input. It has been a real help.
> 
> I will be posting a separate thread about some RF remote problems that have recently developed.
> 
> ...>>Sam


Aw, this is just what I didn't want to hear. Not that I wanted you to fail or have more problems, but I am of the opinion that the 21s, 22s, 23 and 24s all worked with 3Mbs HDDs and the jumpers were not needed. I do have two WD 2TB EADS working as internal drives in 20-700s and both are jumpered.

Your findings confuse me, but I'm glad you got it working. Unfortunately, for me, confusion is a big part of my life. 

On the topic of fan-less enclosures, I have Seagate Xtremes that are fan-less and work well and I had a Cavalry eSATA that was fan-less and it ran well for over a year. It was only a 750G eSATA and I dumped it and replaced it with a larger HDD. The Seagate Free Agent Pro eSATAs were fan-less and ran really hot. I never had one fail due to heat, but others have and I believe that they are the only fan-less eSATAs or enclosures that have had heat related problems. At 94 degrees, I wouldn't worry about yours.

Rich


----------



## Sam-SS

> 21s, 22s, 23 and 24s all worked with 3Mbs HDDs and the jumpers were not needed


Well, it may be that these model DVRs will work with a 3Mbps drive. However, I am not sure if there is any detectable performance difference. The problem may be
the WD20 Green drive. I know it has some features to 
supposedly save energy and it could be that is what was
causing my problems. As I understand it, installing the
OPT1 jumper turns that stuff off.

Oh, on the Thermaltake case, after several more hours
the temperature is now up to 97 degrees and holding 
steady. As for Seagate drives, every one that I ever
had ran hot. Hitachi Desksatars have always run cool 
for me.

...>>Sam


----------



## guigonca

anyone knows if this one work with an hr23-700 receiver?


Western Digital My Book AV DVR Expander 1 TB USB 2.0/eSATA Desktop External Hard Drive WDBABT0010HBK-NESN


----------



## Sam-SS

guigonca said:


> anyone knows if this one work with an hr23-700 receiver?
> Western Digital My Book AV DVR Expander 1 TB USB 2.0/eSATA Desktop External Hard Drive WDBABT0010HBK-NESN


It should, I see no reason why not.

...>>Sam


----------



## Bob_M

Yes it should work. I bought one a week ago and I'm using it on my HR21 receiver with no problems at all.


----------



## joshjr

Can someone recommend a external HDD at least 1tb or 1.5 TB in size that works with a HR20-700?


----------



## Ed-Williams

joshjr said:


> Can someone recommend a external HDD at least 1tb or 1.5 TB in size that works with a HR20-700?


----------------

Get aTenbox.

Regards,
Ed

------------------------------------------------------------------


----------



## CCarncross

joshjr said:


> Can someone recommend a external HDD at least 1tb or 1.5 TB in size that works with a HR20-700?


The recommendations havent changed....An MX-1 enclosure and a WD EVDS model drive....here are links to both products at Newegg.com

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371008&Tpk=mx-1

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007603 50001306 600003269&IsNodeId=1

any of the models that end in EVDS


----------



## 1jmiii

I added a Fantom G-Force GF2000EU 2TB hard drive to my HR20-100 receiver about a month ago. So far it has worked flawlessly and the capacity is wonderful. I might have caused myself some problems on initial startup by not waiting long enough before thinking things were not working and restarting the drive and receiver but it did not take too many false starts before things were obviously in-progress and a little patience was rewarded with a fierce blue (blinking) LED, blank Favorites list, recorded programs, recording Series Manager, Active Weather cities list, and QuickTune memories. Out-of-town recording of 50 hours of Tour de France in HD and 60 or so more hours of mixed programs left the drive about 75% available. This enclosure does not have a fan and definately needs a lot of free air available. It also needs a piece of tape over the LED! Picked it up cheap from one of the many large internet retailers who send me lots of special deal offers. In the future I will open the receiver and see if I can unplug the internal HD and avoid repeating the loss of a HR20-700 due to drive failure. Anybody else try this?


----------



## Rich

1jmiii said:


> I added a Fantom G-Force GF2000EU 2TB hard drive to my HR20-100 receiver about a month ago. So far it has worked flawlessly and the capacity is wonderful. I might have caused myself some problems on initial startup by not waiting long enough before thinking things were not working and restarting the drive and receiver but it did not take too many false starts before things were obviously in-progress and a little patience was rewarded with a fierce blue (blinking) LED, blank Favorites list, recorded programs, recording Series Manager, Active Weather cities list, and QuickTune memories. Out-of-town recording of 50 hours of Tour de France in HD and 60 or so more hours of mixed programs left the drive about 75% available. This enclosure does not have a fan and definately needs a lot of free air available. It also needs a piece of tape over the LED! Picked it up cheap from one of the many large internet retailers who send me lots of special deal offers. In the future I will open the receiver and see if I can unplug the internal HD and avoid repeating the loss of a HR20-700 due to drive failure. Anybody else try this?


Yup, I tried disconnecting the internal drive on one of my owned 20-700s and it doesn't work anymore. There was a time when you could disconnect the internal and it would run off the eSATA. No more, apparently. You have to have the internal drive hooked up. Same goes for the 20-100.

Rich


----------



## Rich

I just put a Thermaltake docking station with a 2TB WD EVDS HDD on my 24-500, and it seems to be damn near perfect. The EVDS and the docking station make no noise at all. In a very quiet room, all I can hear is the slight noise of the 24's fan running. The HDD is just warm to the touch.

Rich


----------



## dstager

Has anyone tried connecting an external and letting it format and operate, then physically swapping the external drive with the internal drive. Will the unit then just use the larger drive the same as if it was running via the external sata port? I think this would work without the need for external hardware to increase capacity.


----------



## Rich

dstager said:


> Has anyone tried connecting an external and letting it format and operate, then physically swapping the external drive with the internal drive. Will the unit then just use the larger drive the same as if it was running via the external sata port? I think this would work without the need for external hardware to increase capacity.


I have six owned 20-700s. Four have 1.5TB HDDs and two have 2TB HDDs all internals. All you have to do with an owned HR is swap HDDs internally. The HR will format the HDD. I that what you meant?

Rich


----------



## hasan

dstager said:


> Has anyone tried connecting an external and letting it format and operate, then physically swapping the external drive with the internal drive. Will the unit then just use the larger drive the same as if it was running via the external sata port? I think this would work without the need for external hardware to increase capacity.


Keep in mind, if you don't own (as opposed to lease) the unit, doing what you are asking about violates your agreement with D*, and may make you liable to pay full price to D* when they get it back. Very, very few units are owned any longer. If you got a new one, there is a 99% chance you are leasing it, no matter whom you bought it from.


----------



## THEPOGCBR900RR

rich584 said:


> I kinda doubt that the jumpers are gonna help. Can't hurt to try them, but I really doubt that is the problem. Sounds like the HDD might be bad. If you can still return it, that's probably the best solution. The EADS HDDs have a picture of the jumper pins on the label, by the way. The 24s should be running at a transfer speed of 3Mbs and the jumper is just gonna knock it down to 1.5Mbs and that's not gonna work. I think. The only HRs that need the jumper are the 20-700s. I think.
> 
> Rich


Finally got around to putting the jumper on 5&6, and it still freezes when i try to play anything. It still records. some shows play.

Any ideas rich? I got that new enclosure also you recommended.


----------



## Rich

THEPOGCBR900RR said:
 

> Finally got around to putting the jumper on 5&6, and it still freezes when i try to play anything. It still records. some shows play.
> 
> Any ideas rich? I got that new enclosure also you recommended.


Could you refresh my memory? What HR2x-xxx? And what HDD?

Rich


----------



## THEPOGCBR900RR

rich584 said:


> could you refresh my memory? What hr2x-xxx? And what hdd?
> 
> Rich


hr21-100
wd20eads


----------



## Rich

THEPOGCBR900RR said:


> hr21-100
> wd20eads


Huh. Should work. I gather you have no other HR to test the external on?

What kind of enclosure was it? An Antec MX-1 will work with the 21 series HRs. I did have a problem like yours with one of the Antecs that I had.

That's a great HDD, but sometimes you get a bad one. Out of three EADS I have purchased one was so noisy I had to return it.

Tell me the enclosure name and whether you have another HR.

Rich


----------



## feeth

I have an acomdata 750gb that has worked without issue for 2 years on a HR21-700. The 21 was replaced with a 24 when the 21 had issues with MVR.

I have reformatted this drive 4x on my PC via usb cable and I still can't get it to work with the 24.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2540249#post2540249

Any other suggestions? If not I'll sell the 750gb and get something with a 2tb.


----------



## Rich

feeth said:


> I have an acomdata 750gb that has worked without issue for 2 years on a HR21-700. The 21 was replaced with a 24 when the 21 had issues with MVR.
> 
> I have reformatted this drive 4x on my PC via usb cable and I still can't get it to work with the 24.
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2540249#post2540249
> 
> Any other suggestions? If not I'll sell the 750gb and get something with a 2tb.


Sounds like it's just not compatible with the 24. Shouldn't have to hook it up to a computer, the 24 would format it. Unfortunately, we've seen many eSATAs that have had compatibility problems with the various HRs.

Rich


----------



## feeth

rich584 said:


> Sounds like it's just not compatible with the 24. Shouldn't have to hook it up to a computer, the 24 would format it. Unfortunately, we've seen many eSATAs that have had compatibility problems with the various HRs.
> 
> Rich


Thanks Rich! I think you are correct. Needed an excuse to upgrade to a 1.5 to 2gb anyway.


----------



## Rich

feeth said:


> Thanks Rich! I think you are correct. Needed an excuse to upgrade to a 1.5 to 2gb anyway.


I just put a Thermaltake docking station and a 2TB WD EVDS HDD on my 24-500. Silent and just warm to the touch. Whole setup cost about $180. You can reduce that cost by purchasing a 1.5TB WD EVDS HDD. That would cost around $120.

Rich


----------



## feeth

rich584 said:


> I just put a Thermaltake docking station and a 2TB WD EVDS HDD on my 24-500. Silent and just warm to the touch. Whole setup cost about $180. You can reduce that cost by purchasing a 1.5TB WD EVDS HDD. That would cost around $120.
> 
> Rich


Thanks again Rich!

Does newegg have the best prices on that setup?

Thermaltake BlacX ST0005U?


----------



## Rich

feeth said:


> Thanks again Rich!
> 
> Does newegg have the best prices on that setup?
> 
> Thermaltake BlacX ST0005U?


They do and they also offer a Rosewill docking station that looks like it is identical to the Thermaltake at a much cheaper price. I always buy from Amazon, I pay the yearly charge of $79 for Prime Shipping and I get my items for no shipping charges and in two days. The other thing to remember about Amazon is that they have no restocking fees and if you read NewEgg's return policy...well, it's like reading a book and they charge restocking fees for just about everything. Much easier and cheaper to return non-working or incompatible items to Amazon. Might be a few bucks more initially, but those restocking fees add up quickly.

Rich


----------



## feeth

rich584 said:


> They do and they also offer a Rosewill docking station that looks like it is identical to the Thermaltake at a much cheaper price. I always buy from Amazon, I pay the yearly charge of $79 for Prime Shipping and I get my items for no shipping charges and in two days. The other thing to remember about Amazon is that they have no restocking fees and if you read NewEgg's return policy...well, it's like reading a book and they charge restocking fees for just about everything. Much easier and cheaper to return non-working or incompatible items to Amazon. Might be a few bucks more initially, but those restocking fees add up quickly.
> 
> Rich


Thanks again Rich!

I got the Rosewill RX-DUS100 from Newegg as amazon does not carry it. It was $29.99 w free 3 day shipping. Got the WD15EVDS from amazon for $109.99 and free 3-5 day shipping.

Wife will be happy when they are installed.


----------



## Rich

feeth said:


> Thanks again Rich!
> 
> I got the Rosewill RX-DUS100 from Newegg as amazon does not carry it. It was $29.99 w free 3 day shipping. Got the WD15EVDS from amazon for $109.99 and free 3-5 day shipping.
> 
> Wife will be happy when they are installed.


Always good to keep the boss happy. 

Rich


----------



## feeth

rich584 said:


> Always good to keep the boss happy.
> 
> Rich


Very true!

Got the WD15EVDS and Rosewill RX-DUS100 yesterday. Hook them up to the 24 and all is well. I can highly recommend this setup, very quite.

Thanks again!


----------



## rob_gendeau

Will a Rosewill RX-358 enclosure holding a WD 1.5TB EVDS work with both a HR20-100 and a HR24? I want to expand one of my HR20s, but it's probably dying and would want to move the external over to a new HR24 should I get one.


----------



## Rich

rob_gendeau said:


> Will a Rosewill RX-358 enclosure holding a WD 1.5TB EVDS work with both a HR20-100 and a HR24? I want to expand one of my HR20s, but it's probably dying and would want to move the external over to a new HR24 should I get one.


Good question. Not every enclosure works with every HR. Don't recall seeing anyone posting about the RX-358 and the 24s. Someone must have tried it. Anyone?

I do know that the Thermaltake docking station and the Rosewill docking station (they seem to be identical items, just different logos and different prices) do work on the 24-500. Perhaps buying the Thermaltake on Amazon (they don't sell the cheaper Rosewill) and trying it on the 20 would be the best course to take. If it works on the 20, you're good and if it doesn't, you can return it to Amazon and truthfully tell them it is "incompatible" with your equipment.

Rich


----------



## kingram52

Anyone try the Samsung Eco Green Drives? There is a F3 1.5 tb on www.dealnews.com
for $66 -look under editors choice section.


----------



## Rich

kingram52 said:


> Anyone try the Samsung Eco Green Drives? There is a F3 1.5 tb on www.dealnews.com
> for $66 -look under editors choice section.


Never had a lot of luck with Sammy HDDs, but that was a long time ago and perhaps they're better now. Nice price, if it works.

Rich


----------



## drogot

Hate to muddy the esata waters but I mistakenly ordered a WD20EARS 2TB 64MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb and a Rosewill RX-358 enclosure. I installed them on an HR20-700 and they are working flawlessly (24hrs 8 recordings so far.)


----------



## Rich

drogot said:


> Hate to muddy the esata waters but I mistakenly ordered a WD20EARS 2TB 64MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb and a Rosewill RX-358 enclosure. I installed them on an HR20-700 and they are working flawlessly (24hrs 8 recordings so far.)


Give it a few days. Then again, you might have gotten lucky and got the rare one that works properly.

Rich


----------



## drogot

Rather be lucky than good, 40hrs still going strong.


----------



## Rich

drogot said:


> Rather be lucky than good, 40hrs still going strong.


This is the first EARS that I've seen that works in an HR. What did you do differently? That's the first EARS that I've read about that was installed in a Rosewill 358. Perhaps that's the answer? I know the one I had wouldn't work in an Antec or internally. It did boot up and record, but the freezeups were immediate and constant.

Rich


----------



## drogot

I didn't do anything differently. I have 3 other hr20s with esata setups. Two with thermalakes, one with Calvary. The fan on the Calvery is acting up and the box runs hot. The thermalakes are great. The Calvery is 1.5tb, all the others are 2tb. The Rosewill looks very much like the thermalakes, but it does have minor differences.


----------



## Swampdawg78

First post so bear with me, thanks.

Have read through a number of pages on this, but haven't crossed my issue....yet.

I am trying to use a MX-1 with a WD15EADS, 1.5 TB green drive.

1) When first installed on my HR23-700 it worked for awhile then just stopped.

2) Receiver will no longer reboot with the external drive.

3) Checked drive & installed jumper across pins 5 & 6 as some have suggested; receiver still will not boot with external HD.

4) Tried on my HR20-700 this morning & receiver will not boot with the external drive attached.

5) Is there a way to see if the drive is OK?

6) MX-1 case seems OK as the light comes on & you can hear the drive spin up, but no boot.

Please suggest possible solutions, if any.

Thanks in Advance!


----------



## Rich

Swampdawg78 said:


> First post so bear with me, thanks.
> 
> Have read through a number of pages on this, but haven't crossed my issue....yet.
> 
> I am trying to use a MX-1 with a WD15EADS, 1.5 TB green drive.
> 
> 1) When first installed on my HR23-700 it worked for awhile then just stopped.
> 
> 2) Receiver will no longer reboot with the external drive.
> 
> 3) Checked drive & installed jumper across pins 5 & 6 as some have suggested; receiver still will not boot with external HD.
> 
> 4) Tried on my HR20-700 this morning & receiver will not boot with the external drive attached.
> 
> 5) Is there a way to see if the drive is OK?
> 
> 6) MX-1 case seems OK as the light comes on & you can hear the drive spin up, but no boot.
> 
> Please suggest possible solutions, if any.
> 
> Thanks in Advance!


I've had one MX-1 that did almost what you describe. The only exception was that it never worked. It sounded like it was working and the light came on, but there was something wrong with it. Sounds like you might have gotten one of the bad ones.

I've purchased three WD EADS and one of them was so noisy that I immediately sent it back. Make of that what you will. Makes me think that WD's QC might have a problem. I've also purchased two WD EVDS HDDs and they both work. Four out of five work very well. Still makes me wonder, tho.

I've had one 23-700. Lasted three weeks. Wouldn't have another one.

The 20-700s should work and work well with the MX-1 and the WD HDD. You did the right thing by putting the jumper on before you tried the 20-700.

So, what to do? Simplest thing to do first is replace the MX-1. If you have to have an MX-1 and you can still return yours, do it. The likelihood of getting two bad MX-1s is very small.

If you can't return it, you might try a different external device. I've got a Thermaltake docking station that works very well with a 2TB WD EVDS on it. My other three WDs are internals in three 20-700s. Here's a *link* to a Thermaltake. All you have to do is slide the HDD into the docking station.

Since you've tried the setup on two different HRs, it has to be either the enclosure or the HDD. You might also try returning the HDD if you still can. I'd try a new enclosure first.

Rich


----------



## Volman

My Vantec Nexstar dock just died.I ordered another RX-358 which is working well(have 2 now-one on an HR20-700 and the other is an external Sata drive for storage).The last one I got has a much quieter fan.

Hopefully,the Thermaltake dock is better.


----------



## Rich

Volman said:


> My Vantec Nexstar dock just died.I ordered another RX-358 which is working well(have 2 now-one on an HR20-700 and the other is an external Sata drive for storage).The last one I got has a much quieter fan.
> 
> Hopefully,the Thermaltake dock is better.


Damn, that's just what I didn't want to hear. My Thermaltake is working so well and I do hope it lasts a long time. What went wrong, Fred?

Rich


----------



## Volman

The drive wouldn't spin up and I thought it was dead.So,I ordered another Rosewill RX-358 and an EVDS 1TB to replace the drive and enclosure both.Put the old HDD intoi the new Rosewill and it's fine.So I tested the voltages on the Vantec dock and they were +12V DC and +8V DC(should be +12V and +5V).

The Thermaltake dock doubtlessly uses a different chipset and gets great reviews......I wouldn't worry.I don't think it's "docks in general" that are a problem.I think the Vantec just went bad(unlucky?).


----------



## Rich

Volman said:


> The drive wouldn't spin up and I thought it was dead.So,I ordered another Rosewill RX-358 and an EVDS 1TB to replace the drive and enclosure both.Put the old HDD intoi the new Rosewill and it's fine.So I tested the voltages on the Vantec dock and they were +12V DC and +8V DC(should be +12V and +5V).
> 
> The Thermaltake dock doubtlessly uses a different chipset and gets great reviews......I wouldn't worry.I don't think it's "docks in general" that are a problem.I think the Vantec just went bad(unlucky?).


Well, that makes me feel better (a little better). Thanx Fred.

Rich


----------



## Wilhite

My config - HR20-700, 2TB EVDS drive and Antec enclosure.

I've read through the thread and can't find anything definitive as to whether the jumper is needed so I'm pretty much ready to just put it on and be done with it.

Is there any downside to having the jumper on in my configuration? 

Am I losing any performance by having it?

If I don't put the jumper on, record items and then discover that I need it, will the recorded items have issues that adding the jumper won't solve?


----------



## Rich

Wilhite said:


> My config - HR20-700, 2TB EVDS drive and Antec enclosure.
> 
> I've read through the thread and can't find anything definitive as to whether the jumper is needed so I'm pretty much ready to just put it on and be done with it.
> 
> Is there any downside to having the jumper on in my configuration?
> 
> Am I losing any performance by having it?
> 
> If I don't put the jumper on, record items and then discover that I need it, will the recorded items have issues that adding the jumper won't solve?


With the EVDS it shouldn't matter. I have an internal EVDS in a 20-700 and it has the jumper on it and works as it should. I didn't feel like finding out that it needed the jumper and just put it on. I think you don't really need it, tho. Doesn't seem to hurt if you do use it.

Rich


----------



## DenaliMike

I have poured through all of the relevant forums/posts and have a question. It looked most people were recommending the MX-1 for a long time but more recently there has been a bunch of talk about other docks/enclosures. What are Rich and others recommend currently? 
- MX-1?
- Thermaltake BlacX eSATA USB Docking Station? (I have some little kids and am leery of a plug-in docking station where they could just eject the drive) [ I know, just keep them away from it  ]
- Thermaltake N0012USU Max 4 Active Cooling 3.5-Inch USB 2.0 eSATA Hard Drive Enclosure
- Or a different one&#8230;.

I plan on starting by adding a WD20EVDS to a HR24-100.

Thanks.


----------



## theph0xx

What 2TB external is recommended for an HR-21/700? Preferably a prebuilt solution, but if absolutely necessary I'll get a case and drive separately.


----------



## Rich

DenaliMike said:


> I have poured through all of the relevant forums/posts and have a question. It looked most people were recommending the MX-1 for a long time but more recently there has been a bunch of talk about other docks/enclosures. What are Rich and others recommend currently?
> - MX-1?
> - Thermaltake BlacX eSATA USB Docking Station? (I have some little kids and am leery of a plug-in docking station where they could just eject the drive) [ I know, just keep them away from it  ]
> - Thermaltake N0012USU Max 4 Active Cooling 3.5-Inch USB 2.0 eSATA Hard Drive Enclosure
> - Or a different one&#8230;.
> 
> I plan on starting by adding a WD20EVDS to a HR24-100.
> 
> Thanks.


I've got a Thermaltake docking station on my 24-500 and it's running quiet and cool. So simple to hook up. Here's a *link*. I just purchased another one ten minutes ago to put on a 20-700.

I've only had the docking station for a couple months, if that long, and it has worked flawlessly. I've got a 2 year old running around the house and she can't even see the docking station. Positioned correctly, it's hardly noticeable. I realize that I haven't really had the docking station long enough to be positive about it, but I've had problems with MX-1s and while the fan is very efficient, it's like a vacuum cleaner. After a few months the accumulation of dust in the enclosure is much more than I expected. And they aren't quiet, at least I've never had one I didn't have to a pad under. Put one on a wood or glass shelf and you can certainly hear it.

Rich


----------



## Rich

theph0xx said:


> What 2TB external is recommended for an HR-21/700? Preferably a prebuilt solution, but if absolutely necessary I'll get a case and drive separately.


See post #760. All you have to do is stick the HDD into the docking station and you're set. It comes with the eSATA to eSATA cable too. I wouldn't recommend any pre-built eSATA. Had enough of them. Failure after failure. The two that D* recommends, or suggests, are only 1TB and cost about the same as the docking station plus the WD EVDS 2TB HDD, which is the only HDD that I'll recommend.

Rich


----------



## DenaliMike

Thanks Rich Re: post #760. Thermaltake BlacX eSATA USB Docking Station it is. FYI: Amazon price is currently $36.14, free shipping, PLUS they started a $10 mail in rebate on Aug 17th going through the 30th for another $10 off. Therefore down to ~$26. I may have to get another for one of my other units at that price.

Speaking of which --- They recently switched out my two HR20-100s with HR23-700s. I was hoping for HR24s of course. (My whole system is therefore two HR24's and two HR23's.) I connected one of my older FAP 750GB drives to the HR23 that had been on the 20. I can get it to acknowledge the external drive and even record a sample program, but after less than a day it seems to be reverting to the internal drive. I don't know if that is after a non-user initiated reboot or just dropping off. Either way, the FAP is powered and connected the whole time but it keeps reverting somehow to the internal drive. Any ideas? Thanks.


----------



## german72

rich584 said:


> I've had one MX-1 that did almost what you describe. The only exception was that it never worked. It sounded like it was working and the light came on, but there was something wrong with it. Sounds like you might have gotten one of the bad ones.
> 
> I've purchased three WD EADS and one of them was so noisy that I immediately sent it back. Make of that what you will. Makes me think that WD's QC might have a problem. I've also purchased two WD EVDS HDDs and they both work. Four out of five work very well. Still makes me wonder, tho.
> 
> I've had one 23-700. Lasted three weeks. Wouldn't have another one.
> 
> The 20-700s should work and work well with the MX-1 and the WD HDD. You did the right thing by putting the jumper on before you tried the 20-700.
> 
> So, what to do? Simplest thing to do first is replace the MX-1. If you have to have an MX-1 and you can still return yours, do it. The likelihood of getting two bad MX-1s is very small.
> 
> If you can't return it, you might try a different external device. I've got a Thermaltake docking station that works very well with a 2TB WD EVDS on it. My other three WDs are internals in three 20-700s. Here's a *link* to a Thermaltake. All you have to do is slide the HDD into the docking station.
> 
> Since you've tried the setup on two different HRs, it has to be either the enclosure or the HDD. You might also try returning the HDD if you still can. I'd try a new enclosure first.
> 
> Rich


Hi Rich, I just installed the same unit in my 23-700 and all is well.
I guess that at times there are just bad ones out there.
Luck to you.

Tom


----------



## Rich

DenaliMike said:


> Thanks Rich Re: post #760. Thermaltake BlacX eSATA USB Docking Station it is. FYI: Amazon price is currently $36.14, free shipping, PLUS they started a $10 mail in rebate on Aug 17th going through the 30th for another $10 off. Therefore down to ~$26. I may have to get another for one of my other units at that price.
> 
> Speaking of which --- They recently switched out my two HR20-100s with HR23-700s. I was hoping for HR24s of course. (My whole system is therefore two HR24's and two HR23's.) I connected one of my older FAP 750GB drives to the HR23 that had been on the 20. I can get it to acknowledge the external drive and even record a sample program, but after less than a day it seems to be reverting to the internal drive. I don't know if that is after a non-user initiated reboot or just dropping off. Either way, the FAP is powered and connected the whole time but it keeps reverting somehow to the internal drive. Any ideas? Thanks.


The FAPs were Seagate's first attempt at a "passive" (no fan) cooling eSATA. They generated a lot of heat and a lot of people have had failures. But the other thing is that they may not be compatible with the 23s. Happens. I have no other ideas as to why that is happening to yours, but I think the FAP's time has come and gone. They've been around for a while, about three years, went out of production when Seagate switched to the Xtremes, which are also passively cooled, but run much cooler than the FAPs. I wouldn't buy another Seagate Xtreme either. In fact, I wouldn't buy another Seagate HDD at this time. I'll stick with the WD EVDS series for the foreseeable future. And the Thermaltake docking station.

Rich


----------



## Wilhite

Wilhite said:


> My config - HR20-700, 2TB EVDS drive and Antec enclosure.
> 
> I've read through the thread and can't find anything definitive as to whether the jumper is needed so I'm pretty much ready to just put it on and be done with it.
> 
> Is there any downside to having the jumper on in my configuration?
> 
> Am I losing any performance by having it?
> 
> If I don't put the jumper on, record items and then discover that I need it, will the recorded items have issues that adding the jumper won't solve?


Just a followup...

I was too lazy to take the enclosure apart and put on the jumper, so I'm trying without it. So far, no issues. The only thing that I've had to do is cover the bright blue light on the Antec enclosure with some electrical tape.

For anyone thinking about doing this, I encourage you to do so. For less than $200, I now have more recording space than I think I will ever use. I retired an old HR10-250 that we were using to record things in SD and have moved everything over to the HR20 (where everything records in HD). I've lost two tuners and I'm limited to 50 Series Links, but some planning can take care of that. All in all (knock on wood), I'm happy.


----------



## DenaliMike

rich584 said:


> The FAPs were Seagate's first attempt at a "passive" (no fan) cooling eSATA. They generated a lot of heat and a lot of people have had failures. But the other thing is that they may not be compatible with the 23s. Happens. I have no other ideas as to why that is happening to yours, but I think the FAP's time has come and gone. They've been around for a while, about three years, went out of production when Seagate switched to the Xtremes, which are also passively cooled, but run much cooler than the FAPs. I wouldn't buy another Seagate Xtreme either. In fact, I wouldn't buy another Seagate HDD at this time. I'll stick with the WD EVDS series for the foreseeable future. And the Thermaltake docking station.
> 
> Rich


Thanks again Rich. Yes, I would not buy another FAP, but figured why not use it since it was in house. It definitely runs very hot. Maybe I'll try it on the 24 or, more likely, it is just time for retirement before failure.


----------



## Rich

DenaliMike said:


> Thanks again Rich. Yes, I would not buy another FAP, but figured why not use it since it was in house. It definitely runs very hot. Maybe I'll try it on the 24 or, more likely, it is just time for retirement before failure.


That FAP has a five year replacement warranty. I know some folks that have sent them back and received Xtremes in return. You might try that. Just Google "Seagate"and you'll be taken to the site. Then go to returns. Worth a try.

Rich


----------



## drogot

Hey rich584 etal. Two weeks and the "ears" 2tb in the rosewill still going strong. Looks like a winner.


----------



## JACKIEGAGA

I would just open it and put it in a MX-1 I just did this today. My FAP died I put it in a MX-1 and everything came back


----------



## Rich

drogot said:


> Hey rich584 etal. Two weeks and the "ears" 2tb in the rosewill still going strong. Looks like a winner.


Amazing. Just amazing. Some folks got all the luck. It really shouldn't work. Or is the Rosewill doing something we don't understand? Very interesting. Keep us updated from time to time.

Rich


----------



## drogot

Go figure! I'll post if there is a change.


----------



## Rich

drogot said:


> Go figure! I'll post if there is a change.


Be nice to see someone else (or you) put an EARS in a Rosewill enclosure.

Rich


----------



## Twister18

Guys I am sorry to ask a stupid question but my calvary HD is making clicking sounds and I think that it is going out. What 2 TB External do you recommend? and do you need the usb docking system as well? I am using a HR21-200.


----------



## Davenlr

eSATA only. WD20EVDS or WD20EADS. NOT WD20EARS.
I am using a Rosewill enclosure. Others have had success with other brands.
EVDS is a video certified drive, EADS is cheaper, and works ok as well. I have one of each, and can tell no difference.


----------



## Rich

Twister18 said:


> Guys I am sorry to ask a stupid question but my calvary HD is making clicking sounds and I think that it is going out. What 2 TB External do you recommend? and do you need the usb docking system as well? I am using a HR21-200.


Those "clicking" noises don't go away, unfortunately, in my experience. I've got several Seagate HDDs that were very quiet up to a couple NRs ago and haven't stopped clicking yet. For "silent running" the EADS or the EVDS (made specifically with DVRs in mind) are very quiet. I'd recommend either and I'd buy only the EVDS. Just bought another one yesterday. Both are made by Western Digital.

You can buy an Antec MX-1 enclosure, a Rosewill enclosure or a docking station. I've got one WD EVDS 2TB HDD in a Thermaltake docking station that is running silently and cool on a 24-500.

I've also got a Thermaltake docking station that I'm playing with at the moment. Tried a Seagate 1.5TB in it yesterday and it kept rebooting my 20-700.

Kinda thought the HDD was bad and I put an old WD stock drive in the docking station and it worked fine. I just put an old stock (a drive taken from an HR that was the internal, only about 300GB) Seagate in the Thermaltake and it is clicking quite a bit. Might be just acquiring Guide data or some such thing. Might stop clicking after it's done with it's "seeking", or not.

So, I know the Thermaltakes work with the 24-500s and the 20-700s. Can't make any recommendations for the other HRs, but I'm pretty sure the Thermaltake docking station will work with them all. But you must get the SATA version. Here's a *link* to them on amazon.com.

Remember, the WD EVDS is made specifically for DVRs and is very quiet. You can find cheaper HDDs if you search for them and most of them will work, but no other HDD that I know of is made with DVRs in mind. That alone should be worth the extra money.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Davenlr said:


> eSATA only. WD20EVDS or WD20EADS. NOT WD20EARS.
> I am using a Rosewill enclosure. Others have had success with other brands.
> EVDS is a video certified drive, EADS is cheaper, and works ok as well. I have one of each, and can tell no difference.


I haven't seen any difference in the two drives either. But I haven't had them long enough to really have any idea how long one or the other will last. With that in mind, I'd recommend the EVDS. Not that much more expensive and made to run 24/7.

The enclosures are another story. I put that bad HDD that I mentioned in my last post in an MX-1 and it was a real PITA compared to the docking station. No screws, a really short setup time, you just plug the HDD into a docking station and no fan noise. No vibration either. I'm just getting into the docking stations and, so far, I really like mine. The MX-1s have been around for a long time and work well. The Rosewills are the enclosure of choice for weaknees.com and I think that weaknees does it's homework. If they are using the Rosewill, it's probably one of the best enclosures. I've never tried one, but others have posted that they aren't silent. That's subjective, of course.

Rich


----------



## Twister18

Thank you Rich and Dave!


----------



## Rich

Twister18 said:


> Thank you Rich and Dave!


You're welcome!

Rich


----------



## sanvara

I hooked up a WD EADS drive to an HR24. It worked great for about 3 days and now when I try to play a show that is recorded is plays a few seconds and freezes. Rebooted and same thing happens. Disconnected the drive and the HR24 works fine with the internal hard drive.


----------



## Davenlr

sanvara said:


> I hooked up a WD EADS drive to an HR24. It worked great for about 3 days and now when I try to play a show that is recorded is plays a few seconds and freezes. Rebooted and same thing happens. Disconnected the drive and the HR24 works fine with the internal hard drive.


Its usually not the drive (with the exception of the EARS drives) that cause problems, but the external eSATA enclosure and its electronics, or the cable.

What enclosure are you using, and when you hit SELECT during the "Power on Self Test" and run the short smart test, does it report any errors on your eSATA?


----------



## Rich

sanvara said:


> I hooked up a WD EADS drive to an HR24. It worked great for about 3 days and now when I try to play a show that is recorded is plays a few seconds and freezes. Rebooted and same thing happens. Disconnected the drive and the HR24 works fine with the internal hard drive.


If you're using an enclosure, you might need a jumper on the HDD. Out of the three EADS HDDs that I've bought, I had to send one back. Too noisy. WD is far from perfect. Best we've got tho.

Rich


----------



## sanvara

Davenlr said:


> Its usually not the drive (with the exception of the EARS drives) that cause problems, but the external eSATA enclosure and its electronics, or the cable.
> 
> What enclosure are you using, and when you hit SELECT during the "Power on Self Test" and run the short smart test, does it report any errors on your eSATA?


Thanks for that info. I was using a startech esata/usb dock. Not sure why it worked great for a few days and now I have issues. I just now swapped it for a mascool dock to see how that works. I prefer a dock if possible. Is there one that is known to work well?


----------



## Davenlr

I use Rosewill, but mine is an enclosure.


----------



## Rich

sanvara said:


> Thanks for that info. I was using a startech esata/usb dock. Not sure why it worked great for a few days and now I have issues. I just now swapped it for a mascool dock to see how that works. I prefer a dock if possible. Is there one that is known to work well?


I've got two Thermaltake docking stations, one on a 24-500 and one on a 20-700. Both work well. Here's a *link*.

I've had the one on the 24-700 for a month or so and just got the other one last week. So far I have nothing bad to say about the docking stations. The reviews of the Thermaltakes on amazon.com are good. Mine are quiet, just warm to the touch and so easy to install. No tools. What a great idea!

Rich


----------



## Volman

Rich is using a Thermaltake dock.


----------



## TheRatPatrol

Volman said:


> Rich is using a Thermaltake dock.


Rich should be getting endorsements from the company.


----------



## Chuck W

Has anyone tried the Thermaltake *DUAL* drive docking station, model ST0014U with their?

Seeing as they are on sale at Best Buy this week for the same price as the single version, I figured I'd go with the dual version. But I am wondering if it being dual will cause problems with my HR20(very soon to be HR24). I currently have a 2tb drive in an Antec MX-1 that is about 3 yrs old. The fan is starting to make some noticeable noise. So rather than fiddle with it(I tried to lube the fan but saw no place to do so), I decided to try one of the docking stations, taking a fan out of the equation.

I dunno if it being a dual drive dock, if that will cause issues.

Thanx

**EDIT**
To be clear, I intend on only installing 1 drive, I just wanna know if having the 2 ports would cause confusion on the HR20.


----------



## Rich

Chuck W said:


> Has anyone tried the Thermaltake *DUAL* drive docking station, model ST0014U with their?
> 
> Seeing as they are on sale at Best Buy this week for the same price as the single version, I figured I'd go with the dual version. But I am wondering if it being dual will cause problems with my HR20(very soon to be HR24). I currently have a 2tb drive in an Antec MX-1 that is about 3 yrs old. The fan is starting to make some noticeable noise. So rather than fiddle with it(I tried to lube the fan but saw no place to do so), I decided to try one of the docking stations, taking a fan out of the equation.
> 
> I dunno if it being a dual drive dock, if that will cause issues.
> 
> Thanx
> 
> **EDIT**
> To be clear, I intend on only installing 1 drive, I just wanna know if having the 2 ports would cause confusion on the HR20.


I dunno, I've only tried the singe drive docks. I don't see what advantage the dual docks have. Unless you could record two HRs on the double dock. Would that be an advantage? Hmmm.

Rich


----------



## Chuck W

rich584 said:


> I dunno, I've only tried the singe drive docks. I don't see what advantage the dual docks have. Unless you could record two HRs on the double dock. Would that be an advantage? Hmmm.
> 
> Rich


I doubt there is any advantage, but I just figured since it is on sale for the same price as the single, why not get the dual. I may have other uses for it later(computer related).


----------



## Rich

Chuck W said:


> I doubt there is any advantage, but I just figured since it is on sale for the same price as the single, why not get the dual. I may have other uses for it later(computer related).


I figured that the dual dock was a computer peripheral. I have tried to wrap my mind around how they work. Could you hook up two HRs to the two individual drives? That would save you money if you have a couple of HRs stacked. I gotta take a look...Where did you see the dual dock? I just looked on amazon.com and all I see is a dual USB dock.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Chuck W said:


> I doubt there is any advantage, but I just figured since it is on sale for the same price as the single, why not get the dual. I may have other uses for it later(computer related).


Found it *here*.

It only has one eSATA port. Don't see how you could use it on an HR. It says in Specifications that you can: Read & Write 2 Hard Drives simultaneously.

Could that mean a duplication of data on each of the two HDDs? Works like a RAID box?

Rich


----------



## TheRatPatrol

rich584 said:


> Found it *here*.
> 
> It only has one eSATA port. Don't see how you could use it on an HR. It says in Specifications that you can: Read & Write 2 Hard Drives simultaneously.
> 
> Could that mean a duplication of data on each of the two HDDs? Works like a RAID box?
> 
> Rich


Could it be used for backing up things to 2 drives at the same time, so if one fails, you have a back up? Or could you get 4TB of HDD space?


----------



## Chuck W

rich584 said:


> Found it *here*.
> 
> It only has one eSATA port. Don't see how you could use it on an HR. It says in Specifications that you can: Read & Write 2 Hard Drives simultaneously.
> 
> Could that mean a duplication of data on each of the two HDDs? Works like a RAID box?
> 
> Rich


I ran it last night and it works fine with one drive installed and that is all I expected and wanted. I didn't try 2 drives because I know it won't work.

It will only support 2 drives if you eSATA port supports a multiplier as that is how it handles 2 drives. There's not a lot of support for the eSATA multiplier yet.

The only reason I bought the 2 port version is because it was on sale, downto the same price as the single port version. So I figured why not.


----------



## Rich

TheRatPatrol said:


> Could it be used for backing up things to 2 drives at the same time, so if one fails, you have a back up? Or could you get 4TB of HDD space?


I was thinking that since it only has one eSATA input, it might copy the same data to both HDDs as a RAID box would do at a considerably cheaper price. Still don't know. I don't think you'd get 4TB of space, but without one to play with...

Rich


----------



## Rich

Chuck W said:


> I ran it last night and it works fine with one drive installed and that is all I expected and wanted. I didn't try 2 drives because I know it won't work.
> 
> It will only support 2 drives if you eSATA port supports a multiplier as that is how it handles 2 drives. There's not a lot of support for the eSATA multiplier yet.
> 
> The only reason I bought the 2 port version is because it was on sale, downto the same price as the single port version. So I figured why not.


That answers my questions. Now tell me what an "eSATA multiplier" is. First time I've heard of them/it.

Rich


----------



## CCarncross

TheRatPatrol said:


> Could it be used for backing up things to 2 drives at the same time, so if one fails, you have a back up? Or could you get 4TB of HDD space?


The DVR will only recognize up to 2TB currently, so anything over 2TB is ignored.


----------



## Bitgod

So problems with dust if using one of those thermaltake docks? That would be my only concern. Will the MX-1 handle a 2TB drive? It thought when I got mine 2 years ago it had a 1TB limit.


----------



## Rich

Bitgod said:


> So problems with dust if using one of those thermaltake docks? That would be my only concern. Will the MX-1 handle a 2TB drive? It thought when I got mine 2 years ago it had a 1TB limit.


No problems with dust so far. The MX-1s will handle 2TBs. The TTDS is a much simpler solution tho.

Rich


----------



## Bitgod

Guess I'll go for the 2TB EVDS in the TTDS. I have a TTDS already that I use with my PC, I have drive sitting in it that I use for backups once in a while. I guess the dust issue never bothered me with it, though it's not on 24/7/365 either and I know the place my MX-1 is sitting is a dusty place. Maybe I'll put on a faux covering just to try to cut down on dust getting on it, but not trying to keep it totally covered. I'm just concerned mainly for that circuit board on the bottom of the drive.

On the plus side, I've always hated that power connector on the MX-1, it wiggles too easy, so if I hit the power cord, sometimes it wiggles enough to kill the power, won't have to worry about that on the TTDS.


----------



## Rich

Bitgod said:


> Guess I'll go for the 2TB EVDS in the TTDS. I have a TTDS already that I use with my PC, I have drive sitting in it that I use for backups once in a while. I guess the dust issue never bothered me with it, though it's not on 24/7/365 either and I know the place my MX-1 is sitting is a dusty place. Maybe I'll put on a faux covering just to try to cut down on dust getting on it, but not trying to keep it totally covered. I'm just concerned mainly for that circuit board on the bottom of the drive.


Ever open up that MX-1? That very efficient fan is like a vacuum cleaner. I've never seen so much dust in any DVR or any electronic equipment. And we don't have a dusty house, or so our housekeepers tell us.



> On the plus side, I've always hated that power connector on the MX-1, it wiggles too easy, so if I hit the power cord, sometimes it wiggles enough to kill the power, won't have to worry about that on the TTDS.


That power connector is really something, isn't it? I've often wondered why it is so complex for just a power cord. Never had one fail tho.

Rich


----------



## finaldiet

My HR20 went bad couple of days ago and they replaced it with an HR24-500. I want to add a 20EVDS to it but not sure what all I need. Looks like I need an enclosure and wonder how easy is it to set up. Any suggestions? I had a seagate 750 esata on mine that has been working for 2-3 years. Thanks for any help.


----------



## dminches

The combination of the EVDS and an Antec MX-1 seems to work for most, if not all.


----------



## Rich

finaldiet said:


> My HR20 went bad couple of days ago and they replaced it with an HR24-500. I want to add a 20EVDS to it but not sure what all I need. Looks like I need an enclosure and wonder how easy is it to set up. Any suggestions? I had a seagate 750 esata on mine that has been working for 2-3 years. Thanks for any help.


I'm using a Thermaltake docking station on my 24-500 with a 2TB EVDS on it. No noise from the docking station and no vibration. So far, I couldn't be happier. Here's a *link*. Easy to install, in fact, the easiest external device I've ever installed. No tools required and the docking station comes with the eSATA jumper. And it's relatively cheap. You can get them cheaper than the link that I supplied if you're comfortable dealing with other websites. I prefer Amazon.

Rich


----------



## finaldiet

Rich584
It says on website USB. Is that the jumper. I'm not familiar with that. My 750 was hooked up by esata cable. Does that hard-drive fit into enclosure easily? How much will a 2TB run about? Thanks for any help.


----------



## Rich

finaldiet said:


> Rich584
> It says on website USB. Is that the jumper. I'm not familiar with that. My 750 was hooked up by esata cable. Does that hard-drive fit into enclosure easily? How much will a 2TB run about? Thanks for any help.


You'll note that the heading for the docking station is: Thermaltake BlacX eSATA USB Docking Station

All the "USB" means is that you can use it for eSATA or USB. You'll get an eSATA to eSATA jumper and a USB cable. No worries, it's an eSATA device.

The HDD fits into the dock quite easily, but you have to look inside to see which way to insert the HDD. Quite easy.

Here's a *link* to the HDD that I recommend and buy. It's made specifically with DVRs in mind. You can get them slightly cheaper on other websites, but I prefer Amazon. If something is wrong with either the docking station or the HDD you can easily return it with no hassles. And no restocking fees.

Rich


----------



## CT_Wiebe

finaldiet said:


> Rich584
> It says on website USB. Is that the jumper. I'm not familiar with that. My 750 was hooked up by esata cable. Does that hard-drive fit into enclosure easily? How much will a 2TB run about? Thanks for any help.


The Thermaltake docking station has both an external USB port and an external SATA (e-SATA) port. The internal connection is SATA (for a SATA Drive, only).

You are right in questioning it. Some "USB" enclosures, labeled USB, only have an external USB connection. However, if you look at the pictures (on the Amazon page that rich584 linked to), you will see that the rear panel has an On/Off button, a Power Input connector, a USB connector, and a e-SATA connector.

USB ports are the common serial connector, these days, used on laptops, netbooks, and also on desktop computers.

The WD20EVDS costs about $0.072/MB, smaller drives are around $0.08 to $0.09 per MB). They can be cheaper from other sources, but Amazon has free shipping, which can cover most, if not all, of the cost difference.

rich584 -- You responded, before I finished typing my explanation. However, I thought I would post my "tome", too. I just ordered both from them, thanks to you.


----------



## Rich

CT_Wiebe said:


> The Thermaltake docking station has both an external USB port and an external SATA (e-SATA) port. The internal connection is SATA (for a SATA Drive, only).
> 
> You are right in questioning it. Some "USB" enclosures, labeled USB, only have an external USB connection. However, if you look at the pictures (on the Amazon page that rich584 linked to), you will see that the rear panel has an On/Off button, a Power Input connector, a USB connector, and a e-SATA connector.


Agreed. Any enclosure or docking station should be looked at carefully. Amazon usually shows the connection ports.



> The WD20EVDS costs about $0.072/MB, smaller drives are around $0.08 to $0.09 per MB). They can be cheaper from other sources, but Amazon has free shipping, which can cover most, if not all, of the cost difference.


That price varies a few dollars each day or so on Amazon. I think I saw the 2TB EVDS for less than $135 the other day. Of course it's never low on the days I buy one. :lol:



> rich584 -- You responded, before I finished typing my explanation.


Don't you hate it when that happens?



> However, I thought I would post my "tome", too. I just ordered both from them, thanks to you.


Hope everything works. Wait till you see how simple it is to hookup.

Rich


----------



## Bitgod

The 20EVDS + TTDS combo is working well for me, less noisy than my 1TB EARS + MX-1 enclosure.


----------



## Rich

Bitgod said:


> The 20EVDS + TTDS combo is working well for me, less noisy than my 1TB EARS + MX-1 enclosure.


You got an EARS to work?

Rich


----------



## top_speed

HI all,

Hopefully you can enlighten me here...

I have a HR21 and installed a new WD 20000CSRTL Green drive from Amazon (136.00 shipped) and I own my HR21 so I want internal. I have the lid off and the unit runs very cool.

It froze every 10 secs until I installed a jumper (5&6) as found in these forums (thanks!) which throttles down to 150mb/sec. --NOW-- The remote works great (before it was very non responsive) the screens are quick to refresh and I get just an occasional blip (maybe every 45-60 secs).

The drive formatted automatically when installed but that was without the 5/6 jumper which i did after ..do I need to re-format somehow with the jumper? --or-- Is there another adjustment or jumper needed?

Thanks for your time, KJ


----------



## Rich

top_speed said:


> HI all,
> 
> Hopefully you can enlighten me here...
> 
> I have a HR21 and installed a new WD 20000CSRTL Green drive from Amazon (136.00 shipped) and I own my HR21 so I want internal. I have the lid off and the unit runs very cool.
> 
> It froze every 10 secs until I installed a jumper (5&6) as found in these forums (thanks!) which throttles down to 150mb/sec. --NOW-- The remote works great (before it was very non responsive) the screens are quick to refresh and I get just an occasional blip (maybe every 45-60 secs).
> 
> The drive formatted automatically when installed but that was without the 5/6 jumper which i did after ..do I need to re-format somehow with the jumper? --or-- Is there another adjustment or jumper needed?


HR21what? To help you we need to know the whole model. HR21-xxx. Makes a difference. They are not all the same.

If I remember correctly, that HDD you bought is actually an EADS HDD, which is a very good drive. You shouldn't have problems with it, especially with the jumper on to slow down the transfer.

I didn't think the 21 series (including the 22s and the 23) needed the jumper, but I put them on automatically and I know that they don't hurt.

Rich


----------



## top_speed

Thanks Rich

I'll check on it when I get home on the version of the HR21

The drive just states WD Caviar Green WD20000CSRTL (on the box) 240hrs of HD / 500,000 MP3


----------



## SomeRandomIdiot

I put a new larger INTERNAL Hard Drive in my HR-21. I expected it to format by itself, which it did not. Came up with error message as Hard Drive Failure. What am I missing here?


----------



## Davenlr

Check your drives jumper settings, and sata cable


----------



## Rich

SomeRandomIdiot said:


> I put a new larger INTERNAL Hard Drive in my HR-21. I expected it to format by itself, which it did not. Came up with error message as Hard Drive Failure. What am I missing here?


What drive did you put in?

Rich


----------



## SomeRandomIdiot

Well, it was the sata connection internally, so I know the connector was working as the old drive continues to work.

I believe it was a WD 1TB Cavair Black which are their better drives.

Drive worked fine on a PC after the fact.

Also, is there a recent list of external eSATA RAID 5 units that WORK with the HR2x? After losing my last Seagate 1.5TB after less than 1 year (and all the programming on them), not interested in doing that again.


----------



## Rich

SomeRandomIdiot said:


> Well, it was the sata connection internally, so I know the connector was working as the old drive continues to work.
> 
> I believe it was a WD 1TB Cavair Black which are their better drives.
> 
> Drive worked fine on a PC after the fact.
> 
> Also, is there a recent list of external eSATA RAID 5 units that WORK with the HR2x? After losing my last Seagate 1.5TB after less than 1 year (and all the programming on them), not interested in doing that again.


We don't have a particular RAID box that we recommend. I would think just about any would be worth taking a shot at. I don't recall ever having read a post about any RAID box not working.

Kinda hard to tell from your first sentence if you just forgot to attach the SATA connection after installing the HDD. Is that what happened?

Rich


----------



## SomeRandomIdiot

Well, every search i have found with raid and esata that shows something that did work for someone does not work for anyone else - but they threads are from 2006-2008. Thus, looking for something with Raid that WILL work in 2010 with everything.

As for the other part of question, of course I did NOT forget to connect the SATA after installing the HDD. Everything WAS connected and instead of formattiing the HR21 indicated a Hard Drive Failure and would not boot.


----------



## comp4pod

Rich, do you know if your DVR reboots, it boots to the Thermaltake? I have used FAP's and an antec mx-1. A reboot always goes to the internal drive with the FAPs, but will reboot back to the mx-1.


----------



## Rich

comp4pod said:


> Rich, do you know if your DVR reboots, it boots to the Thermaltake? I have used FAP's and an antec mx-1. A reboot always goes to the internal drive with the FAPs, but will reboot back to the mx-1.


Yup, the docking stations take a reboot with no problem so far. My 24-500 has been randomly rebooting at night (figure that one out, I can't) and it always goes to the Thermaltake. Same thing with the TT I have on a 20-700, altho that one doesn't reboot randomly. The FAPs usually had to be restarted along with the HR after an NR. Never had that problem with an MX-1. Don't have it with my Seagate Xtremes either.

Rich


----------



## Rich

SomeRandomIdiot said:


> Well, every search i have found with raid and esata that shows something that did work for someone does not work for anyone else - but they threads are from 2006-2008. Thus, looking for something with Raid that WILL work in 2010 with everything.


I can't answer your question. I had two RAID 2TB enclosures set to "full" so that I could get the full 2TBs of capacity. One worked for four months and the other lasted a year. Both Cavalrys, both failed as I expected. Cavs aren't the best HDD boxes. If I wanted a RAID box, I'd buy one on amazon.com and see if it worked. If it didn't, I'd return it under their return policy as "incompatible with my equipment".



> As for the other part of question, of course I did NOT forget to connect the SATA after installing the HDD. Everything WAS connected and instead of formattiing the HR21 indicated a Hard Drive Failure and would not boot.


Might be that Black Caviar. I know that WD rates them as their best for large computer setups, but I don't see many posts on the forum about them. I would have gone with the WD EVDS HDD that is specifically made for DVRs.

And I have, "of course" screwed up a couple of HDD installations when putting internals in my HRs. Got distracted once and forgot to hook up the power cable to the HDD. Happens. 

Rich


----------



## top_speed

_Just thought I would update (in case somebody else has the same prob)_

OK, it's strange but the WD 2TB Green Drive works quite nicely "now"...
Day 1: (no 5/6 jumper) lockups w/ remote and screen, lag was a kind word for it.
Day 2: (I write in here after putting on the 5/6 jumper) much better but still had skips/blips
Day 3: Noticed all my new stuff (1080i &p) recorded stuff wasn't skipping, just the Day 1 & 2 content
Day 4: Erased prior content. Recorded "Hard Knocks" on HBO, perrrfect!
Day 5: Now have 3 HBO HD movies recorded, 1 pre-season FBall game and on replay only noticed 1 quick blip (may even have been in the original transmission).

So strange as it is, it got better with time. Maybe it kept formatting itself? Defragged? (I did hear the HD working even when the receiver was off) so whatever it did it made itself better w/ time (like fine wine!)

*-Happy now  *and w/ the 3 HD movies, 1hr HD "Hard Knocks" show & 1 complete HD Football game my drive still says 97% free!! (was 98% until the FB game of 3hrs was added)


----------



## Pluvious

rich584 said:


> I'm using a Thermaltake docking station on my 24-500 with a 2TB EVDS on it. No noise from the docking station and no vibration. So far, I couldn't be happier. Here's a *link*. Easy to install, in fact, the easiest external device I've ever installed. No tools required and the docking station comes with the eSATA jumper. And it's relatively cheap. You can get them cheaper than the link that I supplied if you're comfortable dealing with other websites. I prefer Amazon.
> 
> Rich


My FreeAgent 750GB drive 'seemed' to be failing (3-4 years for 24/7) So I took your advice and ordered exactly what you posted. $180 seemed like a good price for 2TB!
I'm about to install it for the first time, and was wondering what the deal is with the jumper talk? I was planing to just plug in the drive as it came (stock) into the base and power up the base. (unplug my HR20-100S, power base, wait, plug in HR20 again)

Should I mess with the stock jumper setup at all? I missed the discussion about the reasoning behind it and whether it's 5/6 or some other combination. Do you suppose you can get me up to speed on what I should do? I would very much appreciate it.

Thanks!


----------



## hasan

Pluvious said:


> My FreeAgent 750GB drive 'seemed' to be failing (3-4 years for 24/7) So I took your advice and ordered exactly what you posted. $180 seemed like a good price for 2TB!
> I'm about to install it for the first time, and was wondering what the deal is with the jumper talk? I was planing to just plug in the drive as it came (stock) into the base and power up the base. (unplug my HR20-100S, power base, wait, plug in HR20 again)
> 
> Should I mess with the stock jumper setup at all? I missed the discussion about the reasoning behind it and whether it's 5/6 or some other combination. Do you suppose you can get me up to speed on what I should do? I would very much appreciate it.
> 
> Thanks!


That's two of us. (I ordered the setup he recommended today for my HR20-700). After reading all the associated posts, especially the most recent ones, it appears that the jumper does not need to be set. I guess the both of us will soon find out. My stuff is supposed to arrive around the 15th of September. BTW, I also had been using a FAP 750...nice coincidence...it's beginning to sound like Groundhog Day.


----------



## Kansas Zephyr

hasan said:


> That's two of us. (I ordered the setup he recommended today for my HR20-700). After reading all the associated posts, especially the most recent ones, it appears that the jumper does not need to be set. I guess the both of us will soon find out. My stuff is supposed to arrive around the 15th of September. BTW, I also had been using a FAP 750...nice coincidence...it's beginning to sound like Groundhog Day.


I've been WD20EVDS "jumper free" without a single hiccup.

...and I too, replaced a FAP 750.

I have another one still in service...but it's getting herky-jerky.


----------



## hasan

Kansas Zephyr said:


> I've been WD20EVDS "jumper free" without a single hiccup.
> 
> ...and I too, replaced a FAP 750.
> 
> I have another one still in service...but it's getting herky-jerky.


Thanks for the great info...small world, indeed. There must have been a bunch of us who grabbed the FAP 750's when we found out they worked for the HR20-700. Of course, what we found out soon after is that they didn't work at all for the HR21 series.

Now at least we have an inexpensive (for the 2 TB size) drive we can use to replace the 'ol 750's.

It's also nice to know I don't have to have a jumper. If this works out well on the 20-700, I may order a 2nd setup for the newly acquired HR21-100, and have 4 TB to work with. That's a lot of football games, series recordings and movies!


----------



## Pluvious

I'm hoping all the drop outs and video glitches are due to bad sectors or something. It seems to only happen on my recorded shows and not live TV. (although I don't watch much live TV due to the commercials, so I can't be certain) Replacing the old FAP should be a good move either way I think. 
Besides.. the new shows are staring next week and I figure it's a great time to start with a fresh drive. 

Good to know I don't need the jumpers.. since mine didn't come with any.


----------



## hasan

Pluvious said:


> I'm hoping all the drop outs and video glitches are due to bad sectors or something. It seems to only happen on my recorded shows and not live TV. (although I don't watch much live TV due to the commercials, so I can't be certain) Replacing the old FAP should be a good move either way I think.
> Besides.. the news shows are staring next week and I figure it's a great time to start with a fresh drive.
> 
> Good to know I don't need the jumpers.. since mine didn't come with any.


That's exactly the failure mode my FAP 750 showed. My HR21-200, on the other hand went hreky jerky on me every 12 hours when it failed. They sent me an HR21-100 replacement and no more herky jerky.

So, I've witnessed two failure modes:

1. Bad breakup/glitching/pixellation

2. Herky Jerky video

at no time, did I ever get a drive error from the sat box operating system, but they were obviously failing.


----------



## Kansas Zephyr

hasan said:


> at no time, did I ever get a drive error from the sat box operating system, but they were obviously failing.


FWIW...the now herky-jerky FAP 750...when I pulled it and ran every conceivable HDD test, over a full week...it passed. So, it's back in service.

I hope it fails soon, it's still under warranty.


----------



## Rich

Pluvious said:


> My FreeAgent 750GB drive 'seemed' to be failing (3-4 years for 24/7) So I took your advice and ordered exactly what you posted. $180 seemed like a good price for 2TB!
> I'm about to install it for the first time, and was wondering what the deal is with the jumper talk? I was planing to just plug in the drive as it came (stock) into the base and power up the base. (unplug my HR20-100S, power base, wait, plug in HR20 again)
> 
> Should I mess with the stock jumper setup at all? I missed the discussion about the reasoning behind it and whether it's 5/6 or some other combination. Do you suppose you can get me up to speed on what I should do? I would very much appreciate it.
> 
> Thanks!


As far as I know, you don't need the jumper between pins 5 & 6 to slow down the transfer speed. But that's only with the EVDS drives. I've never tried one on a 20-100. Shouldn't need the jumper, tho.

Rich


----------



## Rich

hasan said:


> Thanks for the great info...small world, indeed. There must have been a bunch of us who grabbed the FAP 750's when we found out they worked for the HR20-700. Of course, what we found out soon after is that they didn't work at all for the HR21 series.
> 
> Now at least we have an inexpensive (for the 2 TB size) drive we can use to replace the 'ol 750's.
> 
> It's also nice to know I don't have to have a jumper. If this works out well on the 20-700, I may order a 2nd setup for the newly acquired HR21-100, and have 4 TB to work with. That's a lot of football games, series recordings and movies!


Those FAPs just got so hot. It's a wonder they lasted so long for you guys.

Rich


----------



## top_speed

I still get a jerk every so often ("sometimes but not all the times" maybe once in an hour long HD show... but never so far in a SD show). I'm living with it


----------



## Pluvious

Thanks Rich for confirming no need for the jumpers. Yeah, those FAP's did run really hot. 

I take it there is no possible way to transfer the old stuff onto the new drive?


----------



## Volman

Hey,Rich

I don't get all the posts about the jumper.Do you?It's not rocket science.You put a jumper in place on 5-6 (takes 5 seconds).If it works....great!.If it doesn't work you take it out.

These enclosures are simple enough.The docks are TOO easy.What's the fuss?

Fred


----------



## Kansas Zephyr

Volman said:


> Hey,Rich
> 
> I don't get all the posts about the jumper.Do you?It's not rocket science.You put a jumper in place on 5-6 (takes 5 seconds).If it works....great!.If it doesn't work you take it out.
> 
> These enclosures are simple enough.The docks are TOO easy.What's the fuss?
> 
> Fred


Or...it's easier not installing the jumper. If it doesn't work, then use one.

No fuss. Just, why use it, if it isn't necessary?


----------



## Volman

Kansas Zephyr said:


> Or...it's easier not installing the jumper. If it doesn't work, then use one.
> 
> No fuss. Just, why use it, if it isn't necessary?


Well,I thought folks were smart enough to figure that out on their own( vice versa).......but you never know.


----------



## dminches

I just hooked up a WD 2 TB EVDS in a Thermaltake docking station (BlacX eSATA) to my new HR24-500 and it is working very nicely.


----------



## Pluvious

Volman said:


> Well,I thought folks were smart enough to figure that out on their own( vice versa).......but you never know.


Excuse me for wanting some information/clarifaction, I thought this was the point of the thread. :nono2:


----------



## Volman

I take it you didn't read the thread.It's been discussed ad finitum.My point is simple.It's not hard to get "information/clarification" ....if..... you take time to read a few posts.That's why it's a THREAD with lots of information throughout.But some are too lazy to read it  There is also the information in this thread about "transferring old stuff to a new drive").

Also,if you read the thread,you would see that Rich and I have a running joke going on about jumpers,etc.

Fred


----------



## Rich

Pluvious said:


> Thanks Rich for confirming no need for the jumpers. Yeah, those FAP's did run really hot.
> 
> I take it there is no possible way to transfer the old stuff onto the new drive?


There is, but you have to use a computer. I've never done it because I have so many HRs that everything is backed up in triplicate. I haven't lost a show in years due to an HR or a HDD failing.

Perhaps someone will read this and point you to a thread that shows you how to transfer your programs.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Volman said:


> Hey,Rich
> 
> I don't get all the posts about the jumper.Do you?It's not rocket science.You put a jumper in place on 5-6 (takes 5 seconds).If it works....great!.If it doesn't work you take it out.
> 
> These enclosures are simple enough.The docks are TOO easy.What's the fuss?
> 
> Fred


If it's something that folks have never done it's usually confusing at first. I was hesitant to put the jumpers on at first too. The thing about the docks is that they are so quiet, I think. Mine make no noise at all. And if someone's adding an external for the first time, you can't beat the docks for ease of installation.

Rich


----------



## hasan

Volman said:


> Well,I thought folks were smart enough to figure that out on their own( vice versa).......but you never know.


These forums are about helping people, implying those with questions that are beneath you are somehow "not smart enough" is not only not helpful, it contradicts the purpose of the forums.

If you don't like a question, because you think someone "ought to know better", or is "lazy", then just don't reply, instead of trumpeting one's immense knowledge.

This thread, among others has gone back and forth on the definitive need (or lack thereof) of jumpers with the drive Rich specified and various enclosures and docks. It's not beyond reason that the question was asked, and will be asked again.

Do the noobies a favor. If they ask, either answer it politely, or move on and let someone willing to take the time, answer the question with some civility.


----------



## Rich

Kansas Zephyr said:


> Or...it's easier not installing the jumper. If it doesn't work, then use one.
> 
> No fuss. Just, why use it, if it isn't necessary?


Well, for one thing, if you put an HDD internally and find out you need a jumper it's a PITA to take the HR apart again to add the jumper. My one 20-700 with an EVDS internally has a jumper on it. Nobody had posted, that I saw, that you didn't need a jumper with an EVDS and it was easier to put one on than to take the thing apart again. Apparently they work just as well with the jumper as they do without the jumper.

Rich


----------



## hasan

rich584 said:


> Well, for one thing, if you put an HDD internally and find out you need a jumper it's a PITA to take the HR apart again to add the jumper. My one 20-700 with an EVDS internally has a jumper on it. Nobody had posted, that I saw, that you didn't need a jumper with an EVDS and it was easier to put one on than to take the thing apart again. Apparently they work just as well with the jumper as they do without the jumper.
> 
> Rich


...and for me, as well as a few others, that was very important information. As you noted, comments had been made in this thread and others that the jumper was needed, then it was posted, maybe not. Then a few said it worked without the jumper (in various configurations), then it finally came out that *definitively* the setup you recommended would work without the jumper. (and if a jumper were needed, was it supplied with the drive?...not everyone has jumpers laying around)

There was certainly room for confusion, and nothing at all wrong with asking for a *definitive* answer, which you ultimately gave, and we thank you for it! We are going to get more questions of this type with different configurations. Not everyone will pick up on a given answer, the first time. If this makes them "not smart enough" or "lazy", in some posters' eyes, then more's the pity. (I'm not saying your posts have been like this, quite the contrary, you have been perfectly helpful across the board)


----------



## Volman

hasan said:


> These forums are about helping people, implying those with questions that are beneath you are somehow "not smart enough" is not only not helpful, it contradicts the purpose of the forums.
> Nonsense.You are being argumentative.
> 
> If you don't like a question, because you think someone "ought to know better", or is "lazy", then just don't reply, instead of trumpeting one's immense knowledge.
> 
> I have never trumpeted my "immense knowledge".
> 
> This thread, among others has gone back and forth on the definitive need (or lack thereof) of jumpers with the drive Rich specified and various enclosures and docks. It's not beyond reason that the question was asked, and will be asked again.
> 
> That WAS my point,but you didn't catch the sarcasm.
> 
> Do the noobies a favor. If they ask, either answer it politely, or move on and let someone willing to take the time, answer the question with some civility.


Yes sir.Be glad to.However,there is the question of forum etiquette that has long been that one tries to find the answer before cluttering the thread with redundant questions.

Have a great day.
Fred


----------



## hasan

Volman said:


> Yes sir.Be glad to.However,there is the question of forum etiquette that has long been that one tries to find the answer before cluttering the thread with redundant questions.
> 
> Have a great day.
> Fred


Helping someone in need is of far more consequence than the inconvenience of a minimally cluttered thread, especially when there was legitimate confusion, caused by this and other threads. I'm just asking for people to be patient with those who need help instead of jumping on them or characterizing them as "not smart enough" or "lazy". I don't think that's asking too much, but hey, that's just me.


----------



## Volman

hasan said:


> ...and for me, as well as a few others, that was very important information. As you noted, comments had been made in this thread and others that the jumper was needed, then it was posted, maybe not. Then a few said it worked without the jumper (in various configurations), then it finally came out that *definitively* the setup you recommended would work without the jumper. (and if a jumper were needed, was it supplied with the drive?...not everyone has jumpers laying around)
> 
> There was certainly room for confusion, and nothing at all wrong with asking for a *definitive* answer, which you ultimately gave, and we thank you for it! We are going to get more questions of this type with different configurations. Not everyone will pick up on a given answer, the first time. If this makes them "not smart enough" or "lazy", in some posters' eyes, then more's the pity. (I'm not saying your posts have been like this, quite the contrary, you have been perfectly helpful across the board)


One thing I have learned about esata drives on Directv DVRs.There is nothing definitive as far as combinations of hdds/enclosures/jumpers,etc.The Antec MX-1 was THE recommended choice for a long time.Not so much now.Ask Rich about his experience.There are far too many variables.Directv seems to throw ius a change-up at times that makes DEFINITIVE no longer definitive.

Look into esata HDDs being killed by NRs.


----------



## hasan

Volman said:


> One thing I have learned about esata drives on Directv DVRs.There is nothing definitive as far as combinations of hdds/enclosures/jumpers,etc.The Antec MX-1 was THE recommended choice for a long time.Not so much now.Ask Rich about his experience.There are far too many variables.Directv seems to throw ius a change-up at times that makes DEFINITIVE no longer definitive.
> 
> Look into esata HDDs being killed by NRs.


Excellent point! That's why we need to be here to help.


----------



## Volman

hasan said:


> Helping someone in need is of far more consequence than the inconvenience of a minimally cluttered thread, especially when there was legitimate confusion, caused by this and other threads. I'm just asking for people to be patient with those who need help instead of jumping on them or characterizing them as "not smart enough" or "lazy". I don't think that's asking too much, but hey, that's just me.


Good grief.Enough already,Mr.thread monitor.Let's get on to something constructive!

BTW,I try to help noobies as often as I can.If you read this thread that will be clear.

regards,Fred


----------



## Rich

hasan said:


> ...and for me, as well as a few others, that was very important information. As you noted, comments had been made in this thread and others that the jumper was needed, then it was posted, maybe not. Then a few said it worked without the jumper (in various configurations), then it finally came out that *definitively* the setup you recommended would work without the jumper. (and if a jumper were needed, was it supplied with the drive?...not everyone has jumpers laying around)
> 
> There was certainly room for confusion, and nothing at all wrong with asking for a *definitive* answer, which you ultimately gave, and we thank you for it! We are going to get more questions of this type with different configurations. Not everyone will pick up on a given answer, the first time. If this makes them "not smart enough" or "lazy", in some posters' eyes, then more's the pity. (I'm not saying your posts have been like this, quite the contrary, you have been perfectly helpful across the board)


Thanx. I just checked a Seagate HDD box that I got quite a while ago and it did have a jumper in it. But I got that before Amazon started sending the HDDs out in their own boxes, which only contain the HDD and the packing balloons. If you look in a Seagate or a WD box, you might find a jumper.

I've never had to use a jumper on a Seagate HDD. Don't know why, but the Seagates seem to automatically switch to the transfer speed the device requires (is that possible? Must be.) The Seagates only have four pins.

Rich


----------



## hasan

rich584 said:


> Thanx. I just checked a Seagate HDD box that I got quite a while ago and it did have a jumper in it. But I got that before Amazon started sending the HDDs out in their own boxes, which only contain the HDD and the packing balloons. If you look in a Seagate or a WD box, you might find a jumper.
> 
> I've never had to use a jumper on a Seagate HDD. Don't know why, but the Seagates seem to automatically switch to the transfer speed the device requires (is that possible? Must be.) The Seagates only have four pins.
> 
> Rich


I guess we'll know for sure in about 10 days or so, as at least 3 people took your recommendation (link). Somewhere around here I have a bunch of jumpers that should work (not that I'll need them for this particular order), but I'd hate to have to look for them after my wife's week long project of "we've got to completely redo the basement". Now things are nice and neat, but I can't find a thing.


----------



## Rich

hasan said:


> I guess we'll know for sure in about 10 days or so, as at least 3 people took your recommendation (link). Somewhere around here I have a bunch of jumpers that should work (not that I'll need them for this particular order), but I'd hate to have to look for them after my wife's week long project of "we've got to completely redo the basement". Now things are nice and neat, but I can't find a thing.


Why would you let your wife do that? My wife is always itching to get into my "hidey-hole" and straighten things up and I've been fortunate enough to catch her each time she tries. I'd end up buying all sorts of new stuff to replace what she'd throw out or misplace. 

Rich


----------



## hasan

rich584 said:


> Why would you let your wife do that? My wife is always itching to get into my "hidey-hole" and straighten things up and I've been fortunate enough to catch her each time she tries. I'd end up buying all sorts of new stuff to replace what she'd throw out or misplace.
> 
> Rich


....oh, it's much worse than that. I had to spend all five days of my vacation from 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. hip deep in the project. I suppose it's all really my fault, because five years ago I bought nice shelving to open up the basement (I had been using 8' long tables for all my stuff).

For some strange reason, she thought it was time to "do the basement", so I boxed myself in a corner and had to do it. 35 years of marriage and one would think I would have been more clever....but....no joy on that one.


----------



## Pluvious

I wanted to thank everyone for their help with my question. I apologize for not reading the whole thread before hand. I thought it would be a simple throw away answer. Sometimes the answer is batted around a few posts before it becomes 'fact' and I was hoping to bypass the confusion and just get the answer. Lazy I suppose, again sorry. 

I was a bit taken back by V, for insinuating that I was stupid. I had assumed this community was a bit more sophisticated.


----------



## Volman

Pluvious said:


> I wanted to thank everyone for their help with my question. I apologize for not reading the whole thread before hand. I thought it would be a simple throw away answer. Sometimes the answer is batted around a few posts before it becomes 'fact' and I was hoping to bypass the confusion and just get the answer. Lazy I suppose, again sorry.
> 
> I was a bit taken back by V, for insinuating that I was stupid. I had assumed this community was a bit more sophisticated.


I was in NO WAY implying that you,nor anyone else,is stupid!!!!It was simply sarcasm.I guess that doesn't play well on here.I meant that if you tried a jumper and it did not work,it would be simple enough to try it without a jumper.....Is that not just simple common sense?(therefore, the vice versa remark).If you noticed,Kansas Zephyr jumped right in with the same answer,but the opposite take(start out installing a jumper vs not installing a jumper).My post was directed to him in regards to whether to USE a jumper first.....or NOT use a jumper first.Period.That's all!

If I stepped on anyones' toes,I apologize.


----------



## Pluvious

It's all good dude..


----------



## Volman

Ok,dude.


----------



## Chuck W

rich584 said:


> Those FAPs just got so hot. It's a wonder they lasted so long for you guys.
> 
> Rich


Yea, mine got real hot and actually DID fail about a month ago after 3 yrs. HOWEVER, after ripping the drive out of the enclosure(and I do mean ripping cause it was a PITA getting it out), I was happy to find out it was the enclosure's electronics that failed and not the drive. I dropped the drive into a docking station and it was fine.

After 3+ years tho, I didn't want to press my luck since it had developed audio drops and stutter whenever I tried to rewind a live HD channel I was watching(recordings were fine). So, I ordered a 1TB EVDS and copied the FAP to the 1TB drive and am running that on my HR20-100(I have a 2TB EVDS on my new HR24-500).

BTW, no jumper on either of my EVDS drives and they work great.


----------



## Volman

My FAP died after 3 years and Seagate sent a new Extreme 1TB to replace it.Many FAPs are still in warranty!


----------



## Chuck W

Volman said:


> My FAP died after 3 years and Seagate sent a new Extreme 1TB to replace it.Many FAPs are still in warranty!


I'n my case the drive was fine. I would have loved to get a free drive, but to be honest I'm happier I was able to save the recordings I had on there. I have them burned to regular DVD, but being able to recover the HD versions of the NY Giants 2007-2008 Super Bowl run was worth it.


----------



## Volman

Three,problems as you probably already know:
1-The FAP is a bear to take apart.
2-If you can successfully take it apart,you could lose any warranty(though Seagate MAY replace the bare drive-not sure).
3-If you don't take it apart,you lose the recordings when you return it for a warranty replacement.

Many of these die from HDD failure and others from power supply issues,controllers,etc.The only way to find out which is to disassemble the FAP.So it boils down to (a) I want a new drive or (b)I want my recordings enough to risk losing the warranty if the HDD is dead.It's a 5 year replacement warranty.


----------



## Rich

hasan said:


> ....oh, it's much worse than that. I had to spend all five days of my vacation from 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. hip deep in the project. I suppose it's all really my fault, because five years ago I bought nice shelving to open up the basement (I had been using 8' long tables for all my stuff).
> 
> For some strange reason, she thought it was time to "do the basement", so I boxed myself in a corner and had to do it. 35 years of marriage and one would think I would have been more clever....but....no joy on that one.


I bought one of those shelving units. Before I knew what was happening, I had ten. Now they're migrating to the garage. My wife apparently never throws anything away.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Volman said:


> Three,problems as you probably already know:
> 1-The FAP is a bear to take apart.
> 2-If you can successfully take it apart,you could lose any warranty(though Seagate MAY replace the bare drive-not sure).
> 3-If you don't take it apart,you lose the recordings when you return it for a warranty replacement.
> 
> Many of these die from HDD failure and others from power supply issues,controllers,etc.The only way to find out which is to disassemble the FAP.So it boils down to (a) I want a new drive or (b)I want my recordings enough to risk losing the warranty if the HDD is dead.It's a 5 year replacement warranty.


And with the EVDS drives working so well on the HRs and the price being reasonable, do you really want Seagate's chattering drives?

Rich


----------



## Davenlr

I wouldnt recommend trying to use a EARS drive for a DVR. 99% wont work.


----------



## Pluvious

Oops.. didn't know there was a EVDS vs. EARS spec. My bad. Should I just delete my post so as not to confuse thread readers? 

Answer : YEP


----------



## hasan

Pluvious said:


> Oops.. didn't know there was a EVDS vs. EARS spec. My bad. Should I just delete my post so as not to confuse thread readers?
> 
> Answer : YEP


 Way too funny!


----------



## Rich

hasan said:


> Way too funny!


Glad I got a chance to read that. 

Rich


----------



## jimpaschal

BTW... not sure if anyone in this thread has pointed this out, but Radio Shack has jumpers that can be used to configure hard drives - pack of ten for $.99. RS calls them shunts... I bought a couple of packs and used them on a few WD20EARS drives.

Radio Shack part number and description is... 
DIP Programming Shunts Model: 276-1512 | Catalog #: 276-1512


----------



## CCarncross

jimpaschal said:


> BTW... not sure if anyone in this thread has pointed this out, but Radio Shack has jumpers that can be used to configure hard drives - pack of ten for $.99. RS calls them shunts... I bought a couple of packs and used them on a few *WD20EARS* drives.
> 
> Radio Shack part number and description is...
> DIP Programming Shunts Model: 276-1512 | Catalog #: 276-1512


Just want to point out that the EARS drives are not really considered compatible to be used in HR DVR's due to the sector and/or block size is not compatible with the OS used on these devices. There was a user or 2 that have reported success, but there are many more that said no go.


----------



## Rich

jimpaschal said:


> BTW... not sure if anyone in this thread has pointed this out, but Radio Shack has jumpers that can be used to configure hard drives - pack of ten for $.99. RS calls them shunts... I bought a couple of packs and used them on a few WD20EARS drives.
> 
> Radio Shack part number and description is...
> DIP Programming Shunts Model: 276-1512 | Catalog #: 276-1512


Do you have the EARS working on an HR. If so, which model?

Rich


----------



## Rich

ajc68 said:


> Purchased a new _WD My Book AV DVR Expander 1TB_ (listed as DirecTV compatible) and followed the hookup instructions at the top of this thread. I get the blue screen of death with an error code every time I've tried the sequence over the past few days. The message says there's a problem with the hard drive that may be an initialization error or fatal. Please try rebooting. I get this code every time right after the self-test sequence of the boot.


Can you still return it? You might try a WD EVDS HDD in either an MX-1 enclosure or a docking station. If you only want 1TB of capacity, it might be a better deal and we know that those two combos work well with any HR.

Rich


----------



## Pluvious

Well that's not good. The new drive and enclosure I got only lasted a few months. I am currently watching the progress bar of the scan disk to 'fix' my hard drive errors. 

It's been 13 hours and I'm at 24% complete. 

Errors found: 6341
Errors corrected: 51,546 and counting each second

I think I'm going to be pissed in a few days when it's done and I find my drive has been wiped clean. S>I>G>H>


Day two:
Now I'm at 61% complete and the errors found show 19,805 and errors corrected show 10,059. I guess it rolled over from 99999999 or something.. very weird. One more day and I'll know if the drive is even going to work... didn't even last 2 months!! Grrrrr.


----------



## phassst

Apricorn makes a 7200rpm 2TB [email protected] each with free shipping!
I have four of these units attached to my four HR21-100's...they work flawlessly. Fantastic construction and all the necessary components are included. Check it!


----------



## feeth

I have 2 ROSEWILL|RX-DUS100 w a WD 2 TB EVDS in each. I noticed that each of the lists looked different. Sure enough both rosewill's failed. We have had a few storms in the past week, but nothing else in the house was effected. I have a RMA via newegg for both. 

BTW both newegg and amazon both have the Thermaltake blacX for $23.99 after a $10 mail in rebate.


----------



## Rich

phassst said:


> Apricorn makes a 7200rpm 2TB [email protected] each with free shipping!
> I have four of these units attached to my four HR21-100's...they work flawlessly. Fantastic construction and all the necessary components are included. Check it!


You might want to do a search on the Apricorns. Don't remember many positive posts about them.

Rich


----------



## Pluvious

Anyone go through the whole process of the disc scan and error correction? 

I ask, because now I'm stuck on a 'done' screen for hours. It says 100% complete but at the same time.. it says scanning disk. The final total:

Errors found 35,350 
Fixed 17,955

It's just sitting on this screen now.. for hours.. I'm afraid to power it off at this point in case it starts up all over again.

edit.. nope the errors and corrections are still moving.... nevermind.


----------



## Jason Whiddon

Did a search for the Apricorn, but nothin, so here goes:

Ive always had good luck with WD My DVR Expanders, but I kinda like the design of the Apricorn II for Directv (1 TB). It is about the same price as the new WD My Book AV, so just looking for input.

Gonna pull the trigger on Amazon in the net day or so, so I can put it into service during the dead time in December.


----------



## Jason Whiddon

rich584 said:


> You might want to do a search on the Apricorns. Don't remember many positive posts about them.
> 
> Rich


Is that the newer Expander II, or home built enclosures?

There are the two Im looking at:

*WD AV*

*Apricorn*


----------



## Rich

elwaylite said:


> Is that the newer Expander II, or home built enclosures?
> 
> There are the two Im looking at:
> 
> *WD AV*
> 
> *Apricorn*


I just did a search for Apricorn and it turned up 63 hits. I did it by post rather than thread.

I haven't paid too much attention to these "DVR expanders" because of their 1TB limitation on capacity, but we know the WD works and don't know that much about the Apricorn. Wouldn't it make more sense to stick with the WDs?

Rich


----------



## suckerswalk

I've got an HR21-100 (guess they aren't liked by some after reading this thread) that I want to add a external hard drive to. I've read about 25 pages of this thread so I hope I have a good handle on this and I do realize that internal drive won't work will the external is plugged in. 

I'm looking for 2TB and see that DTV doesn't "recommend" anything over 1TB so far. Since I'm don't want to spend the coin on a 1TB recommended by DTV to only want more in the future, I'm going right after 2TB. 

I assume the WD20EVDS is what I want from Amazon. For the case, I believe the most recommended is the Antec MX-1 so guess I'll be going with that also. Size and noise matters so let me know if there is something else I should spend my money on insted. Is there anything else I need to make this setup plug right into my HR21-100? Cables or ? Assume this stuff is just a "slip into the case, plug, and go" type setup. Is it?

Thanks in advance. 

Peace,
JC :flag:


----------



## hasan

suckerswalk said:


> I've got an HR21-100 (guess they aren't liked by some after reading this thread) that I want to add a external hard drive to. I've read about 25 pages of this thread so I hope I have a good handle on this and I do realize that internal drive won't work will the external is plugged in.
> 
> I'm looking for 2TB and see that DTV doesn't "recommend" anything over 1TB so far. Since I'm don't want to spend the coin on a 1TB recommended by DTV to only want more in the future, I'm going right after 2TB.
> 
> I assume the WD20EVDS is what I want from Amazon. For the case, I believe the most recommended is the Antec MX-1 so guess I'll be going with that also. Size and noise matters so let me know if there is something else I should spend my money on insted. Is there anything else I need to make this setup plug right into my HR21-100? Cables or ? Assume this stuff is just a "slip into the case, plug, and go" type setup. Is it?
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Peace,
> JC :flag:


I prefer the Thermaltake Dock instead of the MX-1 enclosure. I have the drive you mention in the Dock and it was plug and play, and has worked very well for a lot of people. Search while on Amazon for the Thermaltake Dock and you can see what the cost is...around $30 some dollars.


----------



## Rich

suckerswalk said:


> I've got an HR21-100 (guess they aren't liked by some after reading this thread) that I want to add a external hard drive to. I've read about 25 pages of this thread so I hope I have a good handle on this and I do realize that internal drive won't work will the external is plugged in.
> 
> I'm looking for 2TB and see that DTV doesn't "recommend" anything over 1TB so far. Since I'm don't want to spend the coin on a 1TB recommended by DTV to only want more in the future, I'm going right after 2TB.
> 
> I assume the WD20EVDS is what I want from Amazon. For the case, I believe the most recommended is the Antec MX-1 so guess I'll be going with that also. Size and noise matters so let me know if there is something else I should spend my money on insted. Is there anything else I need to make this setup plug right into my HR21-100? Cables or ? Assume this stuff is just a "slip into the case, plug, and go" type setup. Is it?
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Peace,
> JC :flag:


If you're worried about noise, the Thermaltake docking station is much quieter than the MX-1, altho you might get a quiet MX-1, I've never had one. And the docking station is so easy to install, no tools needed. You might take a look at circuitcity.com for the HDD. They were selling WD EADS 2TB HDDs the other day for $109. Personally, I'd rather deal with Amazon.

Right now, I gotta admit I'm kinda confused as to which HDD is better, the EADS or the EVDS. The EADS I've got make my 20-700s run cooler and they make little noise. I was getting a rumbling sound from my EVDS HDDs, but that seems to have stopped or quieted down for some reason. We do know the EADS are very reliable. They've been available longer than the EVDS drives and I see no reason not to use them.

Rich


----------



## Jason Whiddon

I just went back and read about 3 months, looks like these two are what I need to get?:

*Western Digital 2 TB AV-GP SATA Intellipower 32 MB Cache Bulk/OEM AV Hard Drive WD20EVDS*

*Thermaltake BlacX eSATA USB Docking Station*


----------



## Rich

elwaylite said:


> I just went back and read about 3 months, looks like these two are what I need to get?:
> 
> *Western Digital 2 TB AV-GP SATA Intellipower 32 MB Cache Bulk/OEM AV Hard Drive WD20EVDS*
> 
> *Thermaltake BlacX eSATA USB Docking Station*


Either the EVDS model or the EADS model will serve you well. And the docking station seems to be a good choice, I have three and have had no problems with them. I have had a minor problem with the EVDS HDDs, a rumbling noise that has subsided and one out of the three EADS HDDs that I bought was so noisy that I returned it immediately, but the EADS have been around for a while and are good, reliable HDDs, perhaps better than the EVDS line which is relatively new.

Rich


----------



## Jason Whiddon

OK. 

I'm gonna give the EVDS a shot, since it's supposed to be designed for this APP.


----------



## Rich

elwaylite said:


> OK.
> 
> I'm gonna give the EVDS a shot, since it's supposed to be designed for this APP.


Good choice.

Rich


----------



## Jason Whiddon

Pulled the trigger on both a little bit ago.


----------



## dwebber

OK I'm not up to searching 36 pages for an answer.So if this has already been addressed give me a link ad I'll go there  
OK If I use 1 e sata and fill it up can I disconnect It and connect another one(yes I know you can)but can I hook it bak up and watch the contents?In other words can 2 drives be switched bak an forth with out losing content
thanks for all replies DRW


----------



## Rich

dwebber said:


> OK I'm not up to searching 36 pages for an answer.So if this has already been addressed give me a link ad I'll go there
> OK If I use 1 e sata and fill it up can I disconnect It and connect another one(yes I know you can)but can I hook it bak up and watch the contents?In other words can 2 drives be switched bak an forth with out losing content
> thanks for all replies DRW


Don't blame you for not wanting to read thru the whole thread, I'd do the same thing. The quick answer is yes, every eSATA that has recordings from one HR can be used with that HR and the contents can be played, but only with the HR that recorded them. You can fill up twenty or more eSATAs from one HR and play them all back on that HR. If you try it with another HR, you will be able to see the recordings in the Playlist, but won't be able to view them. In other words HRs can be polygamous. :lol:

Rich


----------



## Jason Whiddon

Only real issue with swapping is loss of series links, right?


----------



## dwebber

thanks for the very fast reply I though so but just confirming . don't have anything but standard DTV yet but It's in the mail thanks again


----------



## retrodog

I ordered a DVD Expander 1 TB drive from B&H today. It was $89. Sounded like a good deal, as shipping was apparently free. 

I'd post the link but I'm still a newbie here so there ya go. 

Looks like this will triple my capacity.


----------



## Rich

elwaylite said:


> Only real issue with swapping is loss of series links, right?


Don't really remember for sure, but I think the SLs stay with the HR rather than the HDD. Can someone confirm this?

Rich


----------



## hasan

rich584 said:


> Don't really remember for sure, but I think the SLs stay with the HR rather than the HDD. Can someone confirm this?
> 
> Rich


No, they don't, at least they didn't on either of my two externals.


----------



## Jason Whiddon

IIRC, in the past when I added a EHD, I had to reenter. Im pretty sure, because when Ive unplugged them before, I was amused at SL's for shows that weren't even on.


----------



## Rich

retrodog said:


> I ordered a DVD Expander 1 TB drive from B&H today. It was $89. Sounded like a good deal, as shipping was apparently free.
> 
> I'd post the link but I'm still a newbie here so there ya go.
> 
> Looks like this will triple my capacity.


If it's a Western Digital DVD Expander, it's a good deal.

Rich


----------



## Rich

hasan said:


> No, they don't, at least they didn't on either of my two externals.


I'm really drawing a blank on this and I should know for sure. I could swear that they were stored on the flash drive, but I'm probably wrong.

Rich


----------



## Rich

elwaylite said:


> IIRC, in the past when I added a EHD, I had to reenter. Im pretty sure, because when Ive unplugged them before, I was amused at SL's for shows that weren't even on.


You're probably right, I just can't remember. Totally blank on this and I should know, I've added so many externals. Where's *The Merg* when you need him? He's always right (well, nobody's *always* right, but he's as close as I've seen). :lol:

Rich


----------



## CCarncross

The SL's are stored on the hard drive, so if you swap it out, you have to re-enter them all. The only time this isnt an issue is when you are copying the old drive to your new drive, then all the SL's are there, as well as all the programming...


----------



## retrodog

rich584 said:


> If it's a Western Digital DVD Expander, it's a good deal.
> 
> Rich


Yes, it is...
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/con...2&AID=10654978&PID=227502&is=REG&A=details&Q=


----------



## Rich

retrodog said:


> Yes, it is...
> http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/con...2&AID=10654978&PID=227502&is=REG&A=details&Q=


Says the device is discontinued, not being made anymore. Still a good price.

Rich


----------



## Rich

CCarncross said:


> The SL's are stored on the hard drive, so if you swap it out, you have to re-enter them all. The only time this isnt an issue is when you are copying the old drive to your new drive, then all the SL's are there, as well as all the programming...


That's something I've never done. Only had two HDDs fail that I'm aware of. I know what I was thinking about. If you take an HDD out of an external and put it on/in another HR, the SLs stay and only the recordings are unusable.

Rich


----------



## NVGuy38

What about the WD20EARS on the Thermaltake dock? Would that be a good combo or should I stick with the AV rated WD20EURS/EVDS? The EARS is $89 right now @ Newegg but the EURS and EVDS are $40 more w/o free shipping. 

Best to go with the AV rated HDD's?


----------



## Rich

NVGuy38 said:


> What about the WD20EARS on the Thermaltake dock? Would that be a good combo or should I stick with the AV rated WD20EURS/EVDS? The EARS is $89 right now @ Newegg but the EURS and EVDS are $40 more w/o free shipping.
> 
> Best to go with the AV rated HDD's?


*NO!!! Don't buy an EARS HDD*. Buy either an EADS or an EVDS WD HDD. The EARS HDDs don't work with the HRs. Best to go with an HDD we know will work. They might cost a bit more, but you can be assured that you will be satisfied with the EADS or EVDS series in a Thermaltake docking station. Personally, I'd go with the EADS. Circuitcity.com usually has the 2TB EADS for about $110. I prefer to buy HDDs from amazon.com. Less hassle if you have to return it.

Rich


----------



## TigerDriver

For about 18 months I've been running a Seagate 1TB Serial ATA HD 7200/32MB/SATA-3G on my HR20-700. The enclosure was an Ultra ULT33053 Stackable...the two were offered as a bundle at TigerDirect. It worked fine from day one.

Recently, I started to notice the HR's picture skipping and tearing. The enclosure's fan had become quite loud, so I decided that I'd replace the entire enclosure with a Vantec NextStar CX enclosure, which has a metal chassis that acts as a heat sink, obviating a fan.

I powered down the HR, reconnected the SATA cable to the new enclosure, powered up the enclosure, then powered up the HR. The activity light on the enclosure works, and I can hear the HDD seeking. However, when the HR's power-up sequence reaches the "Looking for Satellite" stage, it hangs forever. When I power up with the SATA cable disconnected, everything proceeds normally: I can see and play the contents of the HR's internal HDD and all the HR's setup configuration is intact.

My first instinct was that my fiddling with the HDD had pushed the HDD over the edge. Without other tools at my disposal, I plugged the HDD into the ESATA jack on my Vista box. I then ran Vista's disk management tool. It sees the HDD as three _unformatted_ "healthy Primary Partitions" of 518MB, 15.01GB, and 916GB.

So, the enclosure's ESATA interface is apparently working correctly, and the HDD's physical partitioning is roughly what I'd expect an HR to produce--yet it doesn't work.

I can't retro-test, alas, because the old enclosure was such a plastic POS that I pretty much trashed it while removing the HDD. So, I just tossed it in the garbage.

Any comment? Advice? Admonitions?

..
Joe

P.S. Ignore the software versions in my stale forum signature; I'm currently running the national release on all three HR's.


----------



## Jason Whiddon

Got the 2TB AV-GP WD drive in, just waiting on the dock and to clear up my DVR's on the internal. Hopefully have it up and running in 1-2 weeks.


----------



## Rich

TigerDriver said:


> For about 18 months I've been running a Seagate 1TB Serial ATA HD 7200/32MB/SATA-3G on my HR20-700. The enclosure was an Ultra ULT33053 Stackable...the two were offered as a bundle at TigerDirect. It worked fine from day one.
> 
> Recently, I started to notice the HR's picture skipping and tearing. The enclosure's fan had become quite loud, so I decided that I'd replace the entire enclosure with a Vantec NextStar CX enclosure, which has a metal chassis that acts as a heat sink, obviating a fan.
> 
> I powered down the HR, reconnected the SATA cable to the new enclosure, powered up the encosure, then powered up the HR. When the power-up sequence reaches the "Looking for Satellite" stage, it hangs forever. When the SATA cable is disconnected, power-up proceeds normally, and I see the contents of the HR's internal HDD.
> 
> My first instinct was that my fiddling with the HDD had pushed the HDD over the edge. Without other tools at my disposal, I plugged the HDD into the ESATA jack on my Vista box. I then ran Vista's disk management tool. It sees the HDD as three _unformatted_ "healthy Primary Partitions" of 518MB, 15.01GB, and 916GB.
> 
> So, the enclosure's ESATA interface is apparently working correctly, and the physical partitioning is roughly what I'd expect an HR to produce--yet it doesn't work.
> 
> I can't retro-test, alas, because the old enclosure was such a plastic POS that I pretty much trashed it while removing the HDD. So, I just tossed in the garbage.
> 
> Any comment? Advice? Admonitions?
> 
> ..
> Joe


Well, if I had to guess, I'd say the problem is the new enclosure. We usually only recommend the Antec MX-1 and the Thermaltake docking station. Mainly because we know they work with every HR. The simplest thing to do is get one of those enclosures and see if it works. The symptoms your first enclosure showed would indicate something wrong with the enclosure. I've had that happen and there was nothing wrong with the HDDs.

I'm not a big proponent of failed HDDs. I've had a lot of HRs and can only recall two HDD failures and both were in external enclosures. Don't give up on the HDD, get one of the two enclosures above. Your startup sequence was correct, that's not the problem.

If I were to choose between the two, I would pick the docking station because it is very easy to install, no tools needed. Don't be put off by the sight of the HDD sticking out of the docking station. Nothing to worry about there. Heat is also not a problem with them. The MX-1s I've had were a bit noisy, but they are also very reliable.

Rich


----------



## TigerDriver

Rich,

There seem to be several Thermaltake docking stations. Will THIS one do?

..
joe


----------



## Jason Whiddon

Thats does not look like the right model number.

You want P/N: ST0005U 

Your model is the esata only. Reason Id recommend against the single option, is you may change providers, or whatever, and need the USB version. From my experience, get one that does BOTH.


----------



## cr8f

I installed a 1.5 Tb WD drive Amazon was selling for $60 internally in a HR20-100 this morning that works. 

Installing it in a HR20-100 was easy

Western Digital 1.5 TB Caviar Green SATA Intellipower 64 MB Cache Bulk/OEM Desktop Hard Drive WD15EARS

The docking station (Kingwin ezdock) VIA esata cable didn't work so I did it internally.


----------



## Rich

TigerDriver said:


> Rich,
> 
> There seem to be several Thermaltake docking stations. Will THIS one do?joe


*This* is the one I use. Don't know about the one you linked to, but it looks like it will work. I'd still get the one I linked to.

Rich


----------



## Rich

elwaylite said:


> Thats does not look like the right model number.
> 
> You want P/N: ST0005U
> 
> Your model is the esata only. Reason Id recommend against the single option, is you may change providers, or whatever, and need the USB version. From my experience, get one that does BOTH.


Yup, that's my opinion too. So simple to hook up to a computer using the USB function, and only a buck or so more.

Rich


----------



## Rich

cr8f said:


> I installed a 1.5 Tb WD drive Amazon was selling for $60 internally in a HR20-100 this morning that works.
> 
> Installing it in a HR20-100 was easy
> 
> Western Digital 1.5 TB Caviar Green SATA Intellipower 64 MB Cache Bulk/OEM Desktop Hard Drive WD15EARS
> 
> The docking station (Kingwin ezdock) VIA esata cable didn't work so I did it internally.


Be interesting to see how long that EARS works correctly. Don't remember seeing anyone else use one internally, but I'm not surprised that it didn't work with the external device. I've given up on that model of HDD. Hope yours works, keep us updated, please. First sign of freezups or lockups or anything out of the ordinary, get that EARS out of your HR.

Rich


----------



## CCarncross

Rich, since they are in the process or already have added support for "advanced format drives" The EARS models may become viable. Now having said that, when the consensus recommendation here is to use "Drive X in enclosure Y", why do so many venture out on their own, buy the cheapest POS model they can find, and then come here looking for answers when it doesnt perform correctly?


----------



## Rich

CCarncross said:


> Rich, since they are in the process or already have added support for "advanced format drives" The EARS models may become viable.


That's interesting. I've seen the 2TB EARS for $69 on some sites. I'd still have to see somebody I trust implicitly do it externally and internally before I'd get another one. Even then...



> Now having said that, when the consensus recommendation here is to use "Drive X in enclosure Y", why do so many venture out on their own, buy the cheapest POS model they can find, and then come here looking for answers when it doesnt perform correctly?


I think it's just the nature of the beast. We've just got to try new things. Think outside the box. Or they don't trust us implicitly! :lol:

We'll probably be still asking that question a few years from now. Personally, I'd rather put my trust in someone that's gone down a path and succeeded rather than just jumping on the cheaper devices.

Rich


----------



## cartrivision

NVGuy38 said:


> What about the WD20EARS on the Thermaltake dock? Would that be a good combo or should I stick with the AV rated WD20EURS/EVDS? The EARS is $89 right now @ Newegg but the EURS and EVDS are $40 more w/o free shipping.
> 
> Best to go with the AV rated HDD's?
> 
> 
> rich584 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *NO!!! Don't buy an EARS HDD*. Buy either an EADS or an EVDS WD HDD. The EARS HDDs don't work with the HRs. Best to go with an HDD we know will work. They might cost a bit more, but you can be assured that you will be satisfied with the EADS or EVDS series in a Thermaltake docking station. Personally, I'd go with the EADS. Circuitcity.com usually has the 2TB EADS for about $110. I prefer to buy HDDs from amazon.com. Less hassle if you have to return it.
> 
> Rich
Click to expand...

The new DVR software release which is being rolled out nationally now (release notes) is said to have added support for the so called advanced format (4k sector) drives, so theoretically the WDxxEARS drives should now work, but I haven't seen any confirmation of that yet.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

cartrivision said:


> The new DVR software release which is being rolled out nationally now (release notes) is said to have added support for the so called advanced format (4k sector) drives, so theoretically the WDxxEARS drives should now work, but I haven't seen any confirmation of that yet.


That's pretty interesting too. I wonder if we'll be able to use the full potential drive size (16TB?) for 4k sectors or if the size will be limited by the firmware.

Either way it could really expand our current size limitations. 

Mike


----------



## CCarncross

Mike Bertelson said:


> That's pretty interesting too. I wonder if we'll be able to use the full potential drive size (16TB?) for 4k sectors or if the size will be limited by the firmware.
> 
> Either way it could really expand our current size limitations.
> 
> Mike


I'm pretty confident that the 2TB OS limit due to the 32-bit kernel is still in place, but I'm sure someone will try it out.


----------



## Rich

cartrivision said:


> The new DVR software release which is being rolled out nationally now (release notes) is said to have added support for the so called advanced format (4k sector) drives, so theoretically the WDxxEARS drives should now work, but I haven't seen any confirmation of that yet.


You're not gonna find confirmation of that from me. I'm not sticking another one of those on one of my HRs. Did it once just to make sure everyone was correct about the problems with them, never again.

Rich


----------



## rick52768

A little off subject, but the esata hookup is more robust than I ever though. I accidentally unhooked the power supply from my external drive to the point that it stopped spinning. Plugged it back in with no problems other than the loss of video/audio from dirty jobs and some other program that was being recorded during the two times it was unplugged.


----------



## Rich

rick52768 said:


> A little off subject, but the esata hookup is more robust than I ever though. I accidentally unhooked the power supply from my external drive to the point that it stopped spinning. Plugged it back in with no problems other than the loss of video/audio from dirty jobs and some other program that was being recorded during the two times it was unplugged.


You really should do a full reboot of both the HR and the external device when something like that happens. I would.

Rich


----------



## Chuck W

I should post in this thread for people thinking of doing the Thermaltake docksing station. I would recommend NOT using the DUAL bay docking station that Thermaltake offers, on the single bay. 

I had picked up a dual bay version a ways back, since at the time, it was on sale for the same price as the single bay version. My thought was that down the road, I could use this with my PC if needed, so that's why I went dual. 

I know the HR2x will not support dual drives, so I used ONE drive in it(WD EVDS 2tb drive) and had it hooked to my HR24-500. It worked great up till a few weeks ago. The firmware that I downloaded 2 weeks before Thanksgiving make it so my HR24-500 was UNBOOTABLE with the external drive attached. I tried many things, even waiting for the next week's firmware, but they both had the same issue. No matter what I did, the box would not boot with the drive attached(BSOD type screen on bootup).

So on a whim, I swapped the Thermaltake dual bay dock with a single bay Thermaltake dock I had on another HR box and the HR24-500 with the wd EVDS 2tb drive/single bay dock booted just fine. 

Now, the kicker is that I took the dual bay dock and used it on my HR20-100, with the same version # of the firmware and it works perfectly.

I have no idea why the dual bay dock works on the HR20-100 but not on the HR24-500 but it doesn't So keep that in mind if you are going the docking station route.


----------



## cr8f

Thanks Rich

I tried 2 seagate drives earlier that also weren't recognized. I didn't see this thread right away.

They were Baracuda 7200.11's. I think I'll find a supported drive to replace if this one does fail.


----------



## Rich

cr8f said:


> Thanks Rich
> 
> I tried 2 seagate drives earlier that also weren't recognized. I didn't see this thread right away.
> 
> They were Baracuda 7200.11's. I think I'll find a supported drive to replace if this one does fail.


There are no "supported drives", only the two "recommended" eSATAs that D* has or had on it's website. Of those two, the WD seems to work with all the HRs, while the Seagate Showcase doesn't. Seagate itself only recommended the Showcase for Pace and Dish DVRs. The 700 series of HRs are made by Pace.

Seagate has a 1TB Pipeline that it recommends for DVRs now. My HR24-200 has a 500GB Pipeline in it. Don't know if all the HRs have Pipelines in them. The 200 is the only HR that I own.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Chuck W said:


> I should post in this thread for people thinking of doing the Thermaltake docksing station. I would recommend NOT using the DUAL bay docking station that Thermaltake offers, on the single bay.
> 
> I had picked up a dual bay version a ways back, since at the time, it was on sale for the same price as the single bay version. My thought was that down the road, I could use this with my PC if needed, so that's why I went dual.
> 
> I know the HR2x will not support dual drives, so I used ONE drive in it(WD EVDS 2tb drive) and had it hooked to my HR24-500. It worked great up till a few weeks ago. The cutting edge firmware that I downloaded 2 weeks before Thanksgiving make it so my HR24-500 was UNBOOTABLE with the external drive attached. I tried many things, even waiting for the next week's firmware, but they both had the same issue. No matter what I did, the box would not boot with the drive attached(BSOD type screen on bootup).
> 
> So on a whim, I swapped the Thermaltake dual bay dock with a single bay Thermaltake dock I had on another HR box and the HR24-500 with the wd EVDS 2tb drive/single bay dock booted just fine.
> 
> Now, the kicker is that I took the dual bay dock and used it on my HR20-100, with the same version # of the Cutting Edge firmware and it works perfectly.
> 
> I have no idea why the dual bay dock works on the HR20-100 but not on the HR24-500 but it doesn't So keep that in mind if you are going the docking station route.


I remember reading a post about those double docking stations a bit ago and the recommendation was not to use them. Don't remember why, but I guess you've found the answer. My 3 single HDD Thermaltakes seem to be operating well.

Rich


----------



## cartrivision

rich584 said:


> You're not gonna find confirmation of that from me. I'm not sticking another one of those on one of my HRs. Did it once just to make sure everyone was correct about the problems with them, never again.
> 
> Rich


Prior problems with the WDxxEARS disks are likely irrelevant at this point since DIRECTV saying that they have added support for those types of drives tells us that they knew that they didn't work properly with the prior DVR firmware releases.

Every one of my DVRs is already maxed out with a 2TB disk, otherwise I might be tempted to try out an upgrade with one of the EARS disks, but I'm sure that it won't be long before someone else tries one.


----------



## hasan

Just a quick note. I rebooted my HR20-700 for the first time in over a month. When it came back up, it had not recognized the EVDS 2 TB/Thermaltake Dock. I rebooted again, same result. I then powered down the 20-700 and dock. Left the 20-700 off, and repowered the dock (leaving the eSATA drive cable connected. Powered up the 20-700 after turning the drive/dock on and giving it about 45 seconds to spin up. Result: no eSATA detected.

Powered the 20-700 down (again), with a menu reset as in the first two tries, then pulled the power plug. Removed power on the eSATA, and disconnected the eSATA cable at the dock. Waited 30 sec, powered up the dock/drive after plugging the eSATA cable back into the dock. Then waited 45 sec for the drive to spin up, then powered up the 20-700 again. 

eSATA is back to working.

In the past, I've never had to do anything special whatsoever when rebooting the HR20-700 with eSATA connected. It looks like those days are over until D* does some more work on the eSATA side (which I'm not holding my breath for).

I had expected a simple reset of the HR20-700 would not cause the eSATA to be unrecognized. This has never been the case before. (with the FAP750). I then thought simply powering down the sat box and the eSATA box without removing cables should work. It didn't.

So either it took 3 reboots for things to work, or I really did have to unplug the eSATA cable from the powered down dock and do the normal start all over again stuff.

I'm a bit mystified, but nothing is lost. It's just now I'm not sure to what lengths I'll have to go to get the eSATA to be recognized the next time I have to reboot the HR20-700. 

This is not a complaint or comment on the drive and dock, it is merely noting some of the weirdness that can accompany restarting any of these boxes nowadays if an eSATA is connected.


----------



## Jason Whiddon

That crazy, something to keep an eye on. I run my HR22, the PI, and AM21 off an Back-Ups 750 to keep the power flicker reboots from happening. EHD will be plugged in their, and the 750 allows for a LONG runtime if the power goes out and stays out.


----------



## feeth

hasan said:


> Just a quick note. I rebooted my HR20-700 for the first time in over a month. When it came back up, it had not recognized the EVDS 2 TB/Thermaltake Dock. I rebooted again, same result. I then powered down the 20-700 and dock. Left the 20-700 off, and repowered the dock (leaving the eSATA drive cable connected. Powered up the 20-700 after turning the drive/dock on and giving it about 45 seconds to spin up. Result: no eSATA detected.
> 
> Powered the 20-700 down (again), with a menu reset as in the first two tries, then pulled the power plug. Removed power on the eSATA, and disconnected the eSATA cable at the dock. Waited 30 sec, powered up the dock/drive after plugging the eSATA cable back into the dock. Then waited 45 sec for the drive to spin up, then powered up the 20-700 again.
> 
> eSATA is back to working.
> 
> In the past, I've never had to do anything special whatsoever when rebooting the HR20-700 with eSATA connected. It looks like those days are over until D* does some more work on the eSATA side (which I'm not holding my breath for).
> 
> I had expected a simple reset of the HR20-700 would not cause the eSATA to be unrecognized. This has never been the case before. (with the FAP750). I then thought simply powering down the sat box and the eSATA box without removing cables should work. It didn't.
> 
> So either it took 3 reboots for things to work, or I really did have to unplug the eSATA cable from the powered down dock and do the normal start all over again stuff.
> 
> I'm a bit mystified, but nothing is lost. It's just now I'm not sure to what lengths I'll have to go to get the eSATA to be recognized the next time I have to reboot the HR20-700.
> 
> This is not a complaint or comment on the drive and dock, it is merely noting some of the weirdness that can accompany restarting any of these boxes nowadays if an eSATA is connected.


I just received 2 Thermaltake Docks back from Newegg after both failed 3 weeks ago. I also have 2 of the EVDS 2 TB HDs.

So on my HR24-500, I did the reboot process 2x to get the external going again. No eSATA detected.

I came here and tried your process 3x and it still will not detect the eSATA. I am using the exact same 2tb HD that I had hooked up prior to the docks failing.

I have not tried the other HD DVR yet, will do so in the am.


----------



## Rich

cartrivision said:


> Prior problems with the WDxxEARS disks are likely irrelevant at this point since DIRECTV saying that they have added support for those types of drives tells us that they knew that they didn't work properly with the prior DVR firmware releases.
> 
> Every one of my DVRs is already maxed out with a 2TB disk, otherwise I might be tempted to try out an upgrade with one of the EARS disks, but I'm sure that it won't be long before someone else tries one.


Well, they're really cheap now. I've seen them for $69 dollars on either CC or Tiger. Had you tried one when I did, I'm sure you'd be a tad leery of them too. I don't think I had the one I tried in or on (don't remember) one of my 20-700s for no more than 15 minutes before I said OOPS and sent that bad boy back to Amazon.

Rich


----------



## Rich

hasan said:


> Just a quick note. I rebooted my HR20-700 for the first time in over a month. When it came back up, it had not recognized the EVDS 2 TB/Thermaltake Dock. I rebooted again, same result. I then powered down the 20-700 and dock. Left the 20-700 off, and repowered the dock (leaving the eSATA drive cable connected. Powered up the 20-700 after turning the drive/dock on and giving it about 45 seconds to spin up. Result: no eSATA detected.
> 
> Powered the 20-700 down (again), with a menu reset as in the first two tries, then pulled the power plug. Removed power on the eSATA, and disconnected the eSATA cable at the dock. Waited 30 sec, powered up the dock/drive after plugging the eSATA cable back into the dock. Then waited 45 sec for the drive to spin up, then powered up the 20-700 again.
> 
> eSATA is back to working.
> 
> In the past, I've never had to do anything special whatsoever when rebooting the HR20-700 with eSATA connected. It looks like those days are over until D* does some more work on the eSATA side (which I'm not holding my breath for).
> 
> I had expected a simple reset of the HR20-700 would not cause the eSATA to be unrecognized. This has never been the case before. (with the FAP750). I then thought simply powering down the sat box and the eSATA box without removing cables should work. It didn't.
> 
> So either it took 3 reboots for things to work, or I really did have to unplug the eSATA cable from the powered down dock and do the normal start all over again stuff.
> 
> I'm a bit mystified, but nothing is lost. It's just now I'm not sure to what lengths I'll have to go to get the eSATA to be recognized the next time I have to reboot the HR20-700.
> 
> This is not a complaint or comment on the drive and dock, it is merely noting some of the weirdness that can accompany restarting any of these boxes nowadays if an eSATA is connected.


I've never had an EVDS in an external on a 20-700, but you'll recall I did have that problem with the TT and EVDS on my ruined 24-500. I still think I wrecked that by using the Menu Restart command so many times while playing with MRV.

You might have a failing TT. Be the first one to have that happen that I've seen.

I do have a Seagate Cuda in one of my TTs. The HDD was so noisy I had to take it out of a 20-700 and try it in the TT. It's quite quiet now, but I still reboot the old way, just in case. Don't want to wreck a good working 20-700 even if it a leased HR.

Be interesting to see how yours plays out.

Rich


----------



## Rich

feeth said:


> I just received 2 Thermaltake Docks back from Newegg after both failed 3 weeks ago. I also have 2 of the EVDS 2 TB HDs.
> 
> So on my HR24-500, I did the reboot process 2x to get the external going again. No eSATA detected.
> 
> I came here and tried your process 3x and it still will not detect the eSATA. I am using the exact same 2tb HD that I had hooked up prior to the docks failing.
> 
> I have not tried the other HD DVR yet, will do so in the am.


Oh, this doesn't sound good at all. I've never had a TT/HR setup fail to recognize the external. They aren't the dual docks are they? I've seen some complaints about them. But never the single docks.

Rich


----------



## Rich

hasan said:


> Just a quick note.


Oh, this is wonderful. Two identical issues in two days concerning TTs. Just what I don't need. You did read *feeth's* post, right?

Rich


----------



## feeth

rich584 said:


> Oh, this doesn't sound good at all. I've never had a TT/HR setup fail to recognize the external. They aren't the dual docks are they? I've seen some complaints about them. But never the single docks.
> 
> Rich


Rich, These are single docks. Two are the Rosewill RX-DUS100s, I also picked up a Thermaltake black x for use on my iMac w/ another EVDS.

I must be the schleprock of the docks, the TT was DOA out of the box from Amazon when I hooked it up to the iMac. Just to free up some space on my iMac's HD I am using one of the rosewill's and its fine. Amazon is sending another, they are paying shipping for me to send the old one back.

I will give one of the Rosewills another try on the HR24-500, then on my other HD DVR after that.


----------



## Rich

feeth said:


> Rich, These are single docks. Two are the Rosewill RX-DUS100s, I also picked up a Thermaltake black x for use on my iMac w/ another EVDS.
> 
> I must be the schleprock of the docks, the TT was DOA out of the box from Amazon when I hooked it up to the iMac. Just to free up some space on my iMac's HD I am using one of the rosewill's and its fine. Amazon is sending another, they are paying shipping for me to send the old one back.
> 
> I will give one of the Rosewills another try on the HR24-500, then on my other HD DVR after that.


Aw, that makes me feel so much better. I thought you had all TTs. DOA I can understand. I've never had a problem getting any of the external HDDs recognized by the HRs using the TTs.

If you think about it, would you try to listen for a "rumbling" noise when using the EVDS drives on your HR with either the TTs or Rosewills and let us know? Both my 24-500 and 24-200 started making the same rumbling noise after one of the recent spates of firmware downloads. Prior to that, they were very quiet. I don't think it's got anything to do with the TTs, but who knows?

Thanx again,

Rich


----------



## feeth

rich584 said:


> Aw, that makes me feel so much better. I thought you had all TTs. DOA I can understand. I've never had a problem getting any of the external HDDs recognized by the HRs using the TTs.
> 
> If you think about it, would you try to listen for a "rumbling" noise when using the EVDS drives on your HR with either the TTs or Rosewills and let us know? Both my 24-500 and 24-200 started making the same rumbling noise after one of the recent spates of firmware downloads. Prior to that, they were very quiet. I don't think it's got anything to do with the TTs, but who knows?
> 
> Thanx again,
> 
> Rich


Rich, The only odd noise I hear is during boot up. You may be filmier with that noise as well.

I just tried the same dock and HD on the 24-500 and it still does not see the HD. Will try my other setup on my H21-100 in a few.


----------



## Jason Whiddon

I hope to have my Thermaltake Blac X in by this weekend, and Ill report back about the 2TB AV-GP drive.


----------



## feeth

No luck with the H21-100 either. 

I made sure to keep the EVDS drives in the correct room. 

Would I need to reformat them prior to using them again? I would think if they are staying with the same DVR, they should be ok just to plug and play with a new dock.


----------



## feeth

elwaylite said:


> I hope to have my Thermaltake Blac X in by this weekend, and Ill report back about the 2TB AV-GP drive.


I hope yours works fine and my issues are some sort of user error. :sure:


----------



## Rich

feeth said:


> No luck with the H21-100 either.
> 
> I made sure to keep the EVDS drives in the correct room.
> 
> Would I need to reformat them prior to using them again? I would think if they are staying with the same DVR, they should be ok just to plug and play with a new dock.


Yup, as long as they are on the same HR that you used to record the programs on you should be able to just plug the HDD into the dock and it will play your programs.

Let's take a quick look at what you are doing. First which docking station are you using? The only docking stations that I've ever used are the TTs and, as far as I know, they work on all the HRs.

The proper sequence of booting up is: Make sure both the HR and the dock power cords are unplugged. Plug the eSATA to eSATA cable into the HR and the dock. Now plug the power cord of the dock in and wait a minute or so for the HDD to spin up. Then plug in the power cord of the HR. After the HR boots up you should be good to go. Make sure the power light of the docking station is on after you plug in it's power cord. There is an on/off switch in back of each TT. That power light should initially be blue. After the HR boots up you should see a pink light in one corner of the blue power light and it should be flickering. That's telling you that the HR has recognized the external HDD.

Make sure you insert the HDDs in properly. The other day I took a Seagate out of one docking station for some reason and when I put it back in, I put it in the wrong way. The Seagate labels will be upside down facing you and the WDs labels will be right side up facing you. I put the Seagate in as I would have with a WD and spent quite a bit of time rebooting and rebooting until I noticed what I had done wrong. Stupid mistake, but we all make them from time to time. 

Rich


----------



## Rich

elwaylite said:


> I hope to have my Thermaltake Blac X in by this weekend, and Ill report back about the 2TB AV-GP drive.


Waiting with great anticipation! :lol:

Rich


----------



## Jason Whiddon

It arrived today, so as soon as I can clean the internal up...


----------



## Rich

elwaylite said:


> It arrived today, so as soon as I can clean the internal up...


This is like waiting for the ketchup to come out. :lol:

Rich


----------



## Jason Whiddon

Luckily, the season has slowed, and it should only take us a few days to catch up.


----------



## hasan

elwaylite said:


> That crazy, something to keep an eye on. I run my HR22, the PI, and AM21 off an Back-Ups 750 to keep the power flicker reboots from happening. EHD will be plugged in their, and the 750 allows for a LONG runtime if the power goes out and stays out.


I don't think the problem I experienced with my setup has anything to do with the EVDS drive or Thermaltake Dock. I think it is with how the 20-700 recognizes (or not) external drives. I had an initial problem or two with my FAP 750 when I first go it, then it was fine for over a year.

I don't think the drive or dock are failing in any way. I think they are just fine. It's all a "startup recognition problem" with the HR20-700 in my opinion. This, of course, could extend to other sat boxes as well.

Since I got the drive back up as noted in my prior post, it has worked perfectly. All the prior recordings are intact, and play properly. All new recordings have recorded properly. Simply put, nothing is wrong at all.

The problem clearly points to the sat box not reliably recognizing the eSATA after/during a reboot. At this point I see no evidence whatsoever that the problem is related to the drive or the dock. Keep in mind, eSTATA is *not* supported by D*. As such, many oddities may surface from time to time.

Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water here, guys!

I"m betting the software for recognizing the eSATA drive is buggy. It would not surprise me to see timing issues and all sorts of other stuff. eSATA is unsupported, so we have to play at our own risk. We know the EVDS drives and the dock have worked well in the past (for months or many months). For me to have out of the blue, all of a sudden reboot issues, and taking into consideration what rich584 has experienced, points directly at the the recognition/startup code for eSATA in our boxes,

Yes, there are drives that don't work and never have. We have identified some of them in the various eSATA threads. However, when a drive/enclosure/doc has a track record of working and then we see strange startup after reboot issues, we need to point the finger in the most likely direction and not jump to conclusions about the drives/docks/enclosures.

...and btw, my entire system is on UPSs (5 of them), so power interruptions are not possible (or at least very unlikely).


----------



## Jason Whiddon

I wish Directv would go the Dish method, charge a one time fee, and fully support it. I actually liked Dish's archiving features.


----------



## feeth

rich584 said:


> Yup, as long as they are on the same HR that you used to record the programs on you should be able to just plug the HDD into the dock and it will play your programs.
> 
> Let's take a quick look at what you are doing. First which docking station are you using? The only docking stations that I've ever used are the TTs and, as far as I know, they work on all the HRs.
> 
> The proper sequence of booting up is: Make sure both the HR and the dock power cords are unplugged. Plug the eSATA to eSATA cable into the HR and the dock. Now plug the power cord of the dock in and wait a minute or so for the HDD to spin up. Then plug in the power cord of the HR. After the HR boots up you should be good to go. Make sure the power light of the docking station is on after you plug in it's power cord. There is an on/off switch in back of each TT. That power light should initially be blue. After the HR boots up you should see a pink light in one corner of the blue power light and it should be flickering. That's telling you that the HR has recognized the external HDD.
> 
> Make sure you insert the HDDs in properly. The other day I took a Seagate out of one docking station for some reason and when I put it back in, I put it in the wrong way. The Seagate labels will be upside down facing you and the WDs labels will be right side up facing you. I put the Seagate in as I would have with a WD and spent quite a bit of time rebooting and rebooting until I noticed what I had done wrong. Stupid mistake, but we all make them from time to time.
> 
> Rich


Rich, The Rosewill dock looks exactly the same as the TT. I think my replacement TT will be here from Amazon tomorrow, so I will try that too.

I had been using the Rosewills on both DVRs for a while, untill they both failed at the same time. :sure: I used one of the replacement Rosewills on my imac without issue.

I will double check everything you mentioned.

Thanks for all the tips.


----------



## hasan

rich584 said:


> I've never had an EVDS in an external on a 20-700, but you'll recall I did have that problem with the TT and EVDS on my ruined 24-500. I still think I wrecked that by using the Menu Restart command so many times while playing with MRV.
> 
> You might have a failing TT. Be the first one to have that happen that I've seen.
> 
> I do have a Seagate Cuda in one of my TTs. The HDD was so noisy I had to take it out of a 20-700 and try it in the TT. It's quite quiet now, but I still reboot the old way, just in case. Don't want to wreck a good working 20-700 even if it a leased HR.
> 
> Be interesting to see how yours plays out.
> 
> Rich


As in my most recent post, rich, I don't think there is anything wrong with either the drive or the dock. Not to worry.


----------



## hasan

rich584 said:


> Oh, this is wonderful. Two identical issues in two days concerning TTs. Just what I don't need. You did read *feeth's* post, right?
> 
> Rich


The issues may have nothing to do with the drives/docks. At least in my case, I'm confident that the problem is with poor software handling in the HR20-700 firmware that sooner or later may be corrected. In the mean time, reboots are going to be "tedious". I can live with it. (until they get it fixed).


----------



## feeth

rich584 said:


> Yup, as long as they are on the same HR that you used to record the programs on you should be able to just plug the HDD into the dock and it will play your programs.
> 
> Let's take a quick look at what you are doing. First which docking station are you using? The only docking stations that I've ever used are the TTs and, as far as I know, they work on all the HRs.
> 
> The proper sequence of booting up is: Make sure both the HR and the dock power cords are unplugged. Plug the eSATA to eSATA cable into the HR and the dock. Now plug the power cord of the dock in and wait a minute or so for the HDD to spin up. Then plug in the power cord of the HR. After the HR boots up you should be good to go. Make sure the power light of the docking station is on after you plug in it's power cord. There is an on/off switch in back of each TT. That power light should initially be blue. After the HR boots up you should see a pink light in one corner of the blue power light and it should be flickering. That's telling you that the HR has recognized the external HDD.
> 
> Make sure you insert the HDDs in properly. The other day I took a Seagate out of one docking station for some reason and when I put it back in, I put it in the wrong way. The Seagate labels will be upside down facing you and the WDs labels will be right side up facing you. I put the Seagate in as I would have with a WD and spent quite a bit of time rebooting and rebooting until I noticed what I had done wrong. Stupid mistake, but we all make them from time to time.
> 
> Rich


Rich, I double checked everything. Both HD are installed correctly. Did the proper unplug/plug sequence and got the blue light, but no pink of course.

Hopefully it will work sooner then later or else I will have mega storage space for the rest of the home network. :nono:


----------



## CCarncross

Maybe I've been fortunate, but I've had my HR20-700 since Sept. 2006, and had an external drive on it since early 2007, except for the drive being wiped out once when testing, early in 2007, my externals have never failed to boot or be recognized during reboots, so I find it hard to believe there could be a software glitch. It would be much more likely to be a hardware glitch. Software glitches we would all see them at one time or another, hardware glitches make much more sense logically. Claiming the latest software destroyed my drive doesnt fly due to the low numbers of people reporting drive failures after each new NR, its much more logical to think that some piece of hardware in the chain flaked say during the reboot process, etc...


----------



## Rich

elwaylite said:


> Luckily, the season has slowed, and it should only take us a few days to catch up.


A few drops of ketchup drip out. :lol:

Rich


----------



## Rich

hasan said:


> I don't think the problem I experienced with my setup has anything to do with the EVDS drive or Thermaltake Dock. I think it is with how the 20-700 recognizes (or not) external drives. I had an initial problem or two with my FAP 750 when I first go it, then it was fine for over a year.
> 
> I don't think the drive or dock are failing in any way. I think they are just fine. It's all a "startup recognition problem" with the HR20-700 in my opinion. This, of course, could extend to other sat boxes as well.
> 
> Since I got the drive back up as noted in my prior post, it has worked perfectly. All the prior recordings are intact, and play properly. All new recordings have recorded properly. Simply put, nothing is wrong at all.
> 
> The problem clearly points to the sat box not reliably recognizing the eSATA after/during a reboot. At this point I see no evidence whatsoever that the problem is related to the drive or the dock. Keep in mind, eSTATA is *not* supported by D*. As such, many oddities may surface from time to time.
> 
> Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water here, guys!
> 
> I"m betting the software for recognizing the eSATA drive is buggy. It would not surprise me to see timing issues and all sorts of other stuff. eSATA is unsupported, so we have to play at our own risk. We know the EVDS drives and the dock have worked well in the past (for months or many months). For me to have out of the blue, all of a sudden reboot issues, and taking into consideration what rich584 has experienced, points directly at the the recognition/startup code for eSATA in our boxes,
> 
> Yes, there are drives that don't work and never have. We have identified some of them in the various eSATA threads. However, when a drive/enclosure/doc has a track record of working and then we see strange startup after reboot issues, we need to point the finger in the most likely direction and not jump to conclusions about the drives/docks/enclosures.
> 
> ...and btw, my entire system is on UPSs (5 of them), so power interruptions are not possible (or at least very unlikely).


I agree, I just got worried seeing what I thought were two posts on top of each other that might have pointed to a problem of sorts with the TTs. I don't want to see something I've raved about crash and burn.

I'll just keep on rebooting the way I always have and still won't use the Menu Restart command to do it when an external HDD device is involved. Even tho I know that the MX-1s usually come up before the HR can, I'll keep on using the old method. These things are just too delicate not to treat them correctly the few times a month or even months that a reboot is needed. Since I've never had a problem with the internal drives, it must be a slight conflict or something of that nature between the two SATA controllers. I think *P Smith's* idea about bypassing the SATA controller on the external devices has merit. How to do it is another thing.

It's definitely a problem with the HR not having time to recognize the external when these things occur. I've kept my hands on both the MX-1s and TTs when rebooting and have always thought that the TTs took a bit longer for the HDD to spin up, for whatever reason.

Rich


----------



## Rich

elwaylite said:


> I wish Directv would go the Dish method, charge a one time fee, and fully support it. I actually liked Dish's archiving features.


But, does Dish allow you to use any setup you want? If they do, how do they support all the external devices? D*'s CSRs (and, sadly, I have to include most of the PP CSRs in this comment) can't even correctly "support" the equipment that is "supported" now.

Rich


----------



## Rich

feeth said:


> Rich, The Rosewill dock looks exactly the same as the TT. I think my replacement TT will be here from Amazon tomorrow, so I will try that too.
> 
> I had been using the Rosewills on both DVRs for a while, untill they both failed at the same time. :sure: I used one of the replacement Rosewills on my imac without issue.
> 
> I will double check everything you mentioned.
> 
> Thanks for all the tips.


You're welcome. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the docks are made by one manufacturer and just labeled differently. I don't even remember why I latched on to the TTs as I did.

I used to be a supervisor in a glass factory that made beer bottles. Terrible pay, long hours and a simple fall could result in catastrophic injuries if the housekeeping wasn't kept up properly. I used to do a lot of customer service work in addition to being a supervisor. That meant I'd travel to a brewery where we had bottles breaking for no visible reason that the folks at the brewery could discern.

I used to go to one brewery in PA that put the same beer in the bottles and labeled them for various beer distributors. Every bottle of beer that you found in a liquor store or a bar that said, "Brewed with pure artesian well water" was made by that brewery. I don't remember how many different labels went on the bottles, but there an awful lot of different labels. Same beer. And, naturally, each label had it's supporters even tho they were drinking the same beer. :lol:

Rich


----------



## Rich

hasan said:


> As in my most recent post, rich, I don't think there is anything wrong with either the drive or the dock. Not to worry.


Aw, it's just my nature to think I'm wrong all the time. You'll get used to it. 

Rich


----------



## Rich

feeth said:


> Rich, I double checked everything. Both HD are installed correctly. Did the proper unplug/plug sequence and got the blue light, but no pink of course.
> 
> Hopefully it will work sooner then later or else I will have mega storage space for the rest of the home network. :nono:


Let's hope that replacement works.

Rich


----------



## Rich

CCarncross said:


> Maybe I've been fortunate, but I've had my HR20-700 since Sept. 2006, and had an external drive on it since early 2007, except for the drive being wiped out once when testing, early in 2007, my externals have never failed to boot or be recognized during reboots, so I find it hard to believe there could be a software glitch. It would be much more likely to be a hardware glitch. Software glitches we would all see them at one time or another, hardware glitches make much more sense logically. Claiming the latest software destroyed my drive doesnt fly due to the low numbers of people reporting drive failures after each new NR, its much more logical to think that some piece of hardware in the chain flaked say during the reboot process, etc...


Yes, but you use the MX-1s exclusively, right? We're still kinda testing the docking stations. I have had failures after NRs, but I think the external devices failed in those instances. Something certainly happened. Never had an MX-1 fail after an NR. Have had FAPs fail and had a RAID box fail. And, I think I remember an Xtreme failing after an NR. Not sure about that. I do remember taking one Xtreme apart and I'm still using the HDD that was in it, so it was definitely the enclosure that was the problem there.

Rich


----------



## hasan

CCarncross said:


> Maybe I've been fortunate, but I've had my HR20-700 since Sept. 2006, and had an external drive on it since early 2007, except for the drive being wiped out once when testing, early in 2007, my externals have never failed to boot or be recognized during reboots, so I find it hard to believe there could be a software glitch. It would be much more likely to be a hardware glitch. Software glitches we would all see them at one time or another, hardware glitches make much more sense logically. Claiming the latest software destroyed my drive doesnt fly due to the low numbers of people reporting drive failures after each new NR, its much more logical to think that some piece of hardware in the chain flaked say during the reboot process, etc...


I'm not talking about destroyed drives, I'm referring to boot up problems. One of the common misperceptions about bugs is that they are always consistent, when in fact, there are a myriad of conditions (including loosely defined timing sequences) that cause bugs to surface or not at a particular time.

One particularly telling study was published in Scientific American over 20 years ago that addressed this issue specifically: why do some people with the same software and the same hardware vary in their experience with a particular bug? The study showed the the conditions necessary to produce a bug in a complex system (computer) are so ridden with hidden variables that they had to classify bugs into a series of categories:

1. immediately reproducible
2. 24 hours to surface
3. weeks to surface
4. months to surface
5. a year to surface
6. 5 years
7. 10 years
8. *20 years!*

Yes, there were bugs that took 20 years to surface because the conditions to produce them (being *highly, very highly variable*, would not line up (based on probability theory, once the bug was identified and isolated) for 20 years.

Now, back to what we are seeing:

I think it is overly simplistic to say "oh, we don't all see this bug frequently nor is it easily reproduced, so it must be a hardware problem". It isn't that simple, and never has been. We simply cannot set the conditions reliably among our units because of use patterns and timing resolution issues.

What I am observing here, shows all the characteristics of a software gllitch, rather than a hardware problem. There are chaotic elements in the startup sequence. Some are timing, some are hardware tolerance/performance based, and there could be other causes. Due to the complexity of what is going on when a system is rebooted and the external hardware must be recognized, it is more likely (in my circumstance: new drive, perfect performance, boot problem, resolve problem, resume perfect performance with no skipping or loss of data), that there is a coding problem than a real hardware failure. Either is still possible, but one is more likely than the other....in my opinion (and that is all it is)

Without a lot of very sophisticated analysis, we will never know. A simple replacement of the drive and having the problem go away, may be a good indicator of a hardware problem, but not until the original drive is put back in and failure is confirmed. Similarly, restarting the boot sequence and succeeding on a specific drive does not, in and of itself prove that it is a software failure either.

Probability is a nasty science when one does not have control of the variables, ....all of them, not just a couple. The operations and interactions are far too complex for a simple swap or restart to confirm the issues. Certain causes are more likely than others in the most obvious cases, however in the case I laid out from my own experience, there is absolutely no way to infer a hardware problem as a higher likelihood than a software glitch.

"Software glitches we would all see them at one time or another, hardware glitches make much more sense logically."

In my case, I completely disagree with this conclusion, for the reasons outlined in the earlier part of my post. Logic only works if you have control of all the relevant variables, which we clearly do not. Similarly, test/retest isn't a simple matter either, as there are probabilities associated with this approach as well...it is called test/retest reliability, which is a science unto itself.

The point of my post isn't to say that hardware failures don't cause some of our problems. Rather, I am trying (some what laboriously) to inject some caution into overly simplistic analyses of very complex systems.


----------



## Rich

hasan said:


> I'm not talking about destroyed drives, I'm referring to boot up problems. One of the common misperceptions about bugs is that they are always consistent, when in fact, there are a myriad of conditions (including loosely defined timing sequences) that cause bugs to surface or not at a particular time.
> 
> One particularly telling study was published in Scientific American over 20 years ago that addressed this issue specifically: why do some people with the same software and the same hardware vary in their experience with a particular bug? The study showed the the conditions necessary to produce a bug in a complex system (computer) are so ridden with hidden variables that they had to classify bugs into a series of categories:
> 
> 1. immediately reproducible
> 2. 24 hours to surface
> 3. weeks to surface
> 4. months to surface
> 5. a year to surface
> 6. 5 years
> 7. 10 years
> 8. *20 years!*
> 
> Yes, there were bugs that took 20 years to surface because the conditions to produce them (being *highly, very highly variable*, would not line up (based on probability theory, once the bug was identified and isolated) for 20 years.
> 
> Now, back to what we are seeing:
> 
> I think it is overly simplistic to say "oh, we don't all see this bug frequently nor is it easily reproduced, so it must be a hardware problem". It isn't that simple, and never has been. We simply cannot set the conditions reliably among our units because of use patterns and timing resolution issues.
> 
> What I am observing here, shows all the characteristics of a software gllitch, rather than a hardware problem. There are chaotic elements in the startup sequence. Some are timing, some are hardware tolerance/performance based, and there could be other causes. Due to the complexity of what is going on when a system is rebooted and the external hardware must be recognized, it is more likely (in my circumstance: new drive, perfect performance, boot problem, resolve problem, resume perfect performance with no skipping or loss of data), that there is a coding problem than a real hardware failure. Either is still possible, but one is more likely than the other....in my opinion (and that is all it is)
> 
> Without a lot of very sophisticated analysis, we will never know. A simple replacement of the drive and having the problem go away, may be a good indicator of a hardware problem, but not until the original drive is put back in and failure is confirmed. Similarly, restarting the boot sequence and succeeding on a specific drive does not, in and of itself prove that it is a software failure either.
> 
> Probability is a nasty science when one does not have control of the variables, ....all of them, not just a couple. The operations and interactions are far too complex for a simple swap or restart to confirm the issues. Certain causes are more likely than others in the most obvious cases, however in the case I laid out from my own experience, there is absolutely no way to infer a hardware problem as a higher likelihood than a software glitch.
> 
> "Software glitches we would all see them at one time or another, hardware glitches make much more sense logically."
> 
> In my case, I completely disagree with this conclusion, for the reasons outlined in the earlier part of my post. Logic only works if you have control of all the relevant variables, which we clearly do not. Similarly, test/retest isn't a simple matter either, as there are probabilities associated with this approach as well...it is called test/retest reliability, which is a science unto itself.
> 
> The point of my post isn't to say that hardware failures don't cause some of our problems. Rather, I am trying (some what laboriously) to inject some caution into overly simplistic analyses of very complex systems.


That was an impressive argument! Well said.

Rich


----------



## CCarncross

rich584 said:


> Yes, but you use the MX-1s exclusively, right? We're still kinda testing the docking stations.
> Rich


I broke down and bought one of the thermaltake blackX docks, rebooted a bunch of times already, and not one glitch. My unit gets rebooted literally every week....if I ever do get the current NR software, its just another reboot.


----------



## feeth

rich584 said:


> Let's hope that replacement works.
> 
> Rich


Installed the new TT on the 24-500, did 3x reboot and still wont see the eSATA.

Where is the process to let the DVR reformat the external HD? I might as well try that next on one of them.  Will that work being the DVR is not seeing the external HD?


----------



## feeth

I have a Fantom Drives GF1000EU 1TB HD that served me well on the H21-100 in the past. I've been using it to store movies on via USB to my iMac. I moved all its content to another external HD and did a reformat.

I hooked it up to the H21-100 after a reboot of the DVR and guess what? It works fine with the H21-100. 

I guess I'm going to have to reformat both of the EVDS's prior to using them again. I'll try one first prior to reformatting both of them.

Any other thoughts before I do?


----------



## Rich

CCarncross said:


> I broke down and bought one of the thermaltake blackX docks, rebooted a bunch of times already, and not one glitch. My unit gets rebooted literally every week....if I ever do get the current NR software, its just another reboot.


Huh. Surprised, I am. 

Rich


----------



## Rich

feeth said:


> Installed the new TT on the 24-500, did 3x reboot and still wont see the eSATA.
> 
> Where is the process to let the DVR reformat the external HD? I might as well try that next on one of them.  Will that work being the DVR is not seeing the external HD?


The HR formats the new HDD automatically, yours should be doing that. Could you tell us exactly what steps you take when hooking up the 24-500 to the TT dock? Something is not right.

Rich


----------



## Rich

feeth said:


> I have a Fantom Drives GF1000EU 1TB HD that served me well on the H21-100 in the past. I've been using it to store movies on via USB to my iMac. I moved all its content to another external HD and did a reformat.
> 
> I hooked it up to the H21-100 after a reboot of the DVR and guess what? It works fine with the H21-100.
> 
> I guess I'm going to have to reformat both of the EVDS's prior to using them again. I'll try one first prior to reformatting both of them.
> 
> Any other thoughts before I do?


Yes, don't do too many things at once. Let's work on the new TT and the 24-500. That should work. Something is just not right. We have to determine what's wrong. It's beginning to sound like the problem might be in the 500 itself. Can you hook up the Fantom drive to the 500? If that works on the 21-100, there's no reason why it shouldn't work on the 500. Can you then hook up the TT with one of your EVDS drives to the 21-100 and see if that works correctly?

Rich


----------



## CCarncross

rich584 said:


> Huh. Surprised, I am.
> 
> Rich


Works great, although it does run warmer than the actively cooled MX-1's...passive cooling technology at this level, can never keep something as cool as active cooling....in this case I think its well within acceptable temp. levels for those that insist on a silent enclosure solution.


----------



## Rich

CCarncross said:


> Works great, although it does run warmer than the actively cooled MX-1's...passive cooling technology at this level, can never keep something as cool as active cooling....in this case I think its well within acceptable temp. levels for those that insist on a silent enclosure solution.


I wish I could say that the two I have on my 24s are silent. Those last NRs started both rumbling intermittently. They weren't doing it this morning. I know it's not the TTs causing that noise.

Rich


----------



## feeth

rich584 said:


> Yes, don't do too many things at once. Let's work on the new TT and the 24-500. That should work. Something is just not right. We have to determine what's wrong. It's beginning to sound like the problem might be in the 500 itself. Can you hook up the Fantom drive to the 500? If that works on the 21-100, there's no reason why it shouldn't work on the 500. Can you then hook up the TT with one of your EVDS drives to the 21-100 and see if that works correctly?
> 
> Rich


Rich,

Have already tried one of the rosewill's with the EVDS. I'm pretty sure the rosewill and the TT are one in the same.

I'll give the Fantom drive a try on the 500 and the TT a try with the 100 this evening.

Thanks!


----------



## feeth

rich584 said:


> The HR formats the new HDD automatically, yours should be doing that. Could you tell us exactly what steps you take when hooking up the 24-500 to the TT dock? Something is not right.
> 
> Rich


I've tried it a few different ways more then a few times. 

1. Unplug both the DVR and dock power.
2. Unplug eSATA cable from DVR and dock.
3. I have tried different wait times from 1 min to 10 mins.
4. Plug in eSATA to dock and DVR.
5. Powered up dock/EVDS and have waited from 1 to 10 mins.
6. Power up DVR and wait for it to boot up.

I have also tried a menu basic reset and unplug the DVR when the lights go out on the front of the DVR. Then I followed the rest of the steps above.


----------



## Rich

feeth said:


> I've tried it a few different ways more then a few times.
> 
> 1. Unplug both the DVR and dock power.


That's correct.



> 2. Unplug eSATA cable from DVR and dock.


Shouldn't have to do that unless you're changing an HR or an external. Once that eSATA to eSATA cable is in place don't touch it unless you have to.



> 3. I have tried different wait times from 1 min to 10 mins.


A minute is more than long enough for the external drive to spin up.


> 4. Plug in eSATA to dock and DVR.


See step 2.



> 5. Powered up dock/EVDS and have waited from 1 to 10 mins.


See step 3.



> 6. Power up DVR and wait for it to boot up.


That should work.



> I have also tried a menu basic reset and unplug the DVR when the lights go out on the front of the DVR. Then I followed the rest of the steps above.


That can't hurt, but it's not necessary.

Rich


----------



## feeth

rich584 said:


> Yes, don't do too many things at once. Let's work on the new TT and the 24-500. That should work. Something is just not right. We have to determine what's wrong. It's beginning to sound like the problem might be in the 500 itself. Can you hook up the Fantom drive to the 500? If that works on the 21-100, there's no reason why it shouldn't work on the 500. Can you then hook up the TT with one of your EVDS drives to the 21-100 and see if that works correctly?
> 
> Rich


Tried the 1tb pantom on the 24-500 and it worked fine on the first try.

Used the TT dock w EVDS on the 100 and no luck.

Update: I tried to reformat one of the EVDS's on my iMac. No luck as the iMac wont even see the drive. So unfortunately I could have 1 or 2 dead EVDS's. 

I have a third EVDS that works without issue on the iMac.

So I guess that whatever (power surge) killed both old docks, took out both hard drives as well.


----------



## Rich

feeth said:


> Tried the 1tb pantom on the 24-500 and it worked fine on the first try.
> 
> Used the TT dock w EVDS on the 100 and no luck.
> 
> Update: I tried to reformat one of the EVDS's on my iMac. No luck as the iMac wont even see the drive. So unfortunately I could have 1 or 2 dead EVDS's.
> 
> I have a third EVDS that works without issue on the iMac.
> 
> Here is the noise that the EVDS is making. Both of them have been doing this all along:
> 
> So I guess that whatever (power surge) killed both old docks, took out both hard drives as well.


OOO! Never heard an HDD make sounds like that before. I think your diagnosis is correct. If you have power fluctuations that are bad enough to damage your equipment that badly, you might want to invest in a couple UPS systems.

Looks like your best bet is to return the EVDS HDDs and the docks if you can and start over. Your troubleshooting has been done well and you've proven what your immediate problem is. Now you can experience the joy of dealing with WD and returning those HDDs. I'd be very interested in hearing about those experiences.

Rich


----------



## feeth

rich584 said:


> OOO! Never heard an HDD make sounds like that before. I think your diagnosis is correct. If you have power fluctuations that are bad enough to damage your equipment that badly, you might want to invest in a couple UPS systems.
> 
> Looks like your best bet is to return the EVDS HDDs and the docks if you can and start over. Your troubleshooting has been done well and you've proven what your immediate problem is. Now you can experience the joy of dealing with WD and returning those HDDs. I'd be very interested in hearing about those experiences.
> 
> Rich


Thanks for all your help Rich!


----------



## Rich

feeth said:


> Thanks for all your help Rich!


You're welcome, but you did it all! 

Rich


----------



## feeth

I did an online RMA thru WD on the EVDS's. All you do is enter your serial #/s. Then you have 2 choices. Either express? where they send you out a new HD and put a hold on your CC. You then have 30 days to return the defective HD. The other choice is to ship your defective hard drive back and they send you another. 

I took the first choice. Will let you know how it all works out.


----------



## henryld

I have a very lightly used Seagate FAP model # ST307504FPA1E2-RK sitting in a closet. Would it be worth a try to get this unit working with a HR21-100?


----------



## Rich

feeth said:


> I did an online RMA thru WD on the EVDS's. All you do is enter your serial #/s. Then you have 2 choices. Either express? where they send you out a new HD and put a hold on your CC. You then have 30 days to return the defective HD. The other choice is to ship your defective hard drive back and they send you another.
> 
> I took the first choice. Will let you know how it all works out.


I've been wondering how well WD handled returns. Good to see it was easy for you. Some HDD companies can be real *****s about returns.

Rich


----------



## Rich

henryld said:


> I have a very lightly used Seagate FAP model # ST307504FPA1E2-RK sitting in a closet. Would it be worth a try to get this unit working with a HR21-100?


Sure, as long as it's an eSATA model. Some aren't and won't work with any HR.

Rich


----------



## TigerDriver

rich584 said:


> Well, if I had to guess, I'd say the problem is the new enclosure. We usually only recommend the Antec MX-1 and the Thermaltake docking station. Mainly because we know they work with every HR. The simplest thing to do is get one of those enclosures and see if it works. The symptoms your first enclosure showed would indicate something wrong with the enclosure. I've had that happen and there was nothing wrong with the HDDs.
> 
> I'm not a big proponent of failed HDDs. I've had a lot of HRs and can only recall two HDD failures and both were in external enclosures. Don't give up on the HDD, get one of the two enclosures above. Your startup sequence was correct, that's not the problem.
> 
> If I were to choose between the two, I would pick the docking station because it is very easy to install, no tools needed. Don't be put off by the sight of the HDD sticking out of the docking station. Nothing to worry about there. Heat is also not a problem with them. The MX-1s I've had were a bit noisy, but they are also very reliable.
> 
> Rich


Just to close the loop on this:

I bought a thermaltake docking station and a Seagate 1.5TB drive (click here for details).

Before even opening the docking station, I slammed the drive into my Antec case, connected it to my HR, and voila, everything worked perfectly. So the problem was a defective HDD.

I'll think of a good use for the docking station. Seems like a good tool to have.

I read somewhere on the forum that auto-records survived switching to an external drive. In my case, all auto-records were lost.

..
Joe


----------



## Rich

TigerDriver said:


> Just to close the loop on this:
> 
> I bought a thermaltake docking station and a Seagate 1.5TB drive (click here for details).
> 
> Before even opening the docking station, I slammed the drive into my Antec case, connected it to my HR, and voila, everything worked perfectly. So the problem was a defective HDD.
> 
> I'll think of a good use for the docking station. Seems like a good tool to have.
> 
> I read somewhere on the forum that auto-records survived switching to an external drive. In my case, all auto-records were lost.


Joe, if by "auto-records" you mean Series Links, they stay with the original HDD, and if you're talking about programming that you set up yourself to record without using SLs, I'm pretty sure they stay with the original HDD too.

Rich


----------



## CCarncross

TigerDriver said:


> I read somewhere on the forum that auto-records survived switching to an external drive. In my case, all auto-records were lost.
> 
> ..
> Joe


When you replace a hard drive without copying the old one over to it, nothing carries over....all that info is stored on the hard drive, Series links, custom settings, recording defaults IIRC, pretty much everything except the actual firmware that boots the device is on the hard drive.


----------



## hasan

As a follow up to my prior report that when I rebooted my 2TB EVDS eSATA with Thermaltake Dock, the reboot didn't recognize the external drive. I then had to (after powering down the HR20-700), power off the dock/drive *and* disconnect the eSATA cable from the dock, and restart the system per the usual method:

With the HR20-700 powered down:

1. Reconnect the eSATA cable at the dock
2. Power up the drive, let it settle for 45 seconds or so
3. Power up the HR20-700

...and all was well.

This time, trying to get rid of an errant item in my ToDo LIst (there is an item in it set to record a week ago, and canceling it from the ToDo List doesn't get rid of it), I went back to the "normal" restart of the system, as I have been doing with eSATA drives for a couple of years:

Simply restart an operational DVR from the Menu, and all was well. It worked perfectly this time. So either last time was an unexpected glitch, or I am going to experience random startup recognition issues with the eSATA drive. I'll find out more tonight or tomorrow when I do the CE.

One point of note:

When I restarted the system, there was no activity showing on the eSATA drive (dock, actually), *until* the screen showed, "Running Receiver Self Test", at which point the dock/drive activity light became very busy. A normal startup followed, and all is well.

....and....*the errant ToDo List entry is now gone!*

All in all, a very successful, if not very informative exercise.


----------



## neuronbob

I have a "noob" question.

I am interested in (finally) connecting an eSATA drive to my HR20-700.

DirecTV's site indicates that if I do this, the HR will ignore the internal drive. The pertinent quote is:



> When your receiver reboots, it will automatically see the newly-connected hard drive. The hard drive inside your receiver will be disabled.


I have a lot of stuff on the internal hard drive that I'd want to bring to the external drive if that's the case. Does that happen automatically with setup of the external drive, is there a way to do that once the external is attached, or is the internal data "lost"? I know from postings on this site that this can be done manually, but my time is (honestly) very limited. If that's the only way to do it, I'll do it, but if there's an easier way....

I've searched several times and the information is not easily found, so please don't flame me for the noob post...and thanks for any info!


----------



## Rich

neuronbob said:


> I have a "noob" question.
> 
> I am interested in (finally) connecting an eSATA drive to my HR20-700.
> 
> DirecTV's site indicates that if I do this, the HR will ignore the internal drive. The pertinent quote is:
> I have a lot of stuff on the internal hard drive that I'd want to bring to the external drive if that's the case. Does that happen automatically with setup of the external drive, is there a way to do that once the external is attached, or is the internal data "lost"? I know from postings on this site that this can be done manually, but my time is (honestly) very limited. If that's the only way to do it, I'll do it, but if there's an easier way....


You won't have to lose the recordings on the internal drive. Just disconnect the external drive and reboot the HR and you'll be on the internal drive and have access to all your programs. Just stop recording on the internal drive until you have watched all the programming on it and then you can use the external drive exclusively.



> I've searched several times and the information is not easily found, so please don't flame me for the noob post...and thanks for any info!


It's much easier just to ask the question rather then reading thru pages of posts. You did exactly what I'd do.

Rich


----------



## rsblaski

rich584 said:


> You won't have to lose the recordings on the internal drive. Just disconnect the external drive and reboot the HR and you'll be on the internal drive and have access to all your programs. Just stop recording on the internal drive until you have watched all the programming on it and then you can use the external drive exclusively.Rich


This is the way I did it. The only difficulty is that while watching the programs on the internal drive, you have to make sure that there aren't any shows scheduled to record while doing so. If a recording does start, it will just be another show you will have to watch on the internal drive.
It has long been on the "wish list" that D* would allow an external drive to supplement an internal. I believe that Dish has that capability.


----------



## Rich

rsblaski said:


> This is the way I did it. The only difficulty is that while watching the programs on the internal drive, you have to make sure that there aren't any shows scheduled to record while doing so. If a recording does start, it will just be another show you will have to watch on the internal drive.
> It has long been on the "wish list" that D* would allow an external drive to supplement an internal. I believe that Dish has that capability.


Yeah, Dish does have something like that, but that has it's limits too, if I've read the posts correctly.

Rich


----------



## neuronbob

Thanks for the info. FTL that DirecTV doesn't have the capability to use both internal and external drives. Hopefully that will happen at some point in the future.


----------



## Rich

neuronbob said:


> Thanks for the info. FTL that DirecTV doesn't have the capability to use both internal and external drives. Hopefully that will happen at some point in the future.


We would be better off being able to use any HR with any HDD within an account first, I think. The pitifully small HDDs that are stock can easily be replaced with a 2TB HDD that will more than satisfy your capacity needs. And the 2TB HDDs are just getting cheaper and cheaper. Stick them in an external device and you're good to go.

Rich


----------



## harsh

neuronbob said:


> FTL that DirecTV doesn't have the capability to use both internal and external drives. Hopefully that will happen at some point in the future.


DO NOT hold your breath on that one. The idea has been around since someone first noticed the eSATA port on the back of the HR20.


----------



## neuronbob

^^^^^
Is there a technical reason why this hasn't happened? Are the DTV HR devices simply unable to handle this? I've had my HR20-700 for over three years, which is supremely old in "computer years".

I just bought the 1 TB Western Digital drive that DirecTV "recommends". Wife likes the idea that she'll be able to record more of her chick stuff (ugh).


----------



## marspolarlander

Have an HR21-200, using WD15EADS in an Antec MX-1 - looks like the 1.5 is starting to go and there are ads out for a WD20EARS with a rebate today that I am considering as a replacement. 
Question to those much more knowledgeable about this than I am, and who helped me with my original choices (thanks) -- will the WD20EARS work? I don't know the difference between the EADS and the EARS but before I clicked 'purchase' I wanted to check with you guys.
Thanks and Happy New Year!


----------



## Rich

neuronbob said:


> ^^^^^
> Is there a technical reason why this hasn't happened? Are the DTV HR devices simply unable to handle this? I've had my HR20-700 for over three years, which is supremely old in "computer years".


The consensus opinion is that D* could do it if the demand for it was there. You have to remember, we don't have the numbers to really influence them. And from what more knowledgeable members have told me the great majority of HR users are using stock HRs. I know that sounds hard to believe, but there it is. We are anomalies.



> I just bought the 1 TB Western Digital drive that DirecTV "recommends". Wife likes the idea that she'll be able to record more of her chick stuff (ugh).


That's the better one of the two choices. That should work with every HR. Still a lot of money for only 1TB, you could have built a 2TB external for about the same price or a little less and gotten a longer warranty on the HDD.

Rich


----------



## Rich

marspolarlander said:


> Have an HR21-200, using WD15EADS in an Antec MX-1 - looks like the 1.5 is starting to go and there are ads out for a WD20EARS with a rebate today that I am considering as a replacement.
> Question to those much more knowledgeable about this than I am, and who helped me with my original choices (thanks) -- will the WD20EARS work? I don't know the difference between the EADS and the EARS but before I clicked 'purchase' I wanted to check with you guys.
> Thanks and Happy New Year!


A bunch of us tried the EARS and they didn't work. I'd go with an EADS or an EVDS, even tho I have read posts that stated that the problem with the EARS has been solved. There's gotta be a reason why the EARS are so much cheaper.

What makes you think the 1.5TB HDD you're using is going bad? The MX-1 might be the culprit and you can get a new MX-1 or a Thermaltake docking station for a lot less than a new HDD. I'd try that first. If you still have the same problems, I'd try the external on another HR. If you still have the problem, then I'd get the HDD.

Rich


----------



## neuronbob

rich584 said:


> That's the better one of the two choices. That should work with every HR. Still a lot of money for only 1TB, you could have built a 2TB external for about the same price or a little less and gotten a longer warranty on the HDD.


True, and I did look at that. I work 12-14 hours a day and wanted reasonable reliability instead of phone calls from the wife about why her show isn't recording. 



> The consensus opinion is that D* could do it if the demand for it was there. You have to remember, we don't have the numbers to really influence them. And from what more knowledgeable members have told me the great majority of HR users are using stock HRs. I know that sounds hard to believe, but there it is. We are anomalies.


Actually, it's hard to believe it took me over three years to even decide to add more capacity. What finally did it for me is that the wife finally figured out how to record her programs.......and she filled up our internal drive over the last six months. So NOW I become an anomaly.  Still, it's too bad DTV doesn't wish us to have this capability.


----------



## Rich

neuronbob said:


> True, and I did look at that. I work 12-14 hours a day and wanted reasonable reliability instead of phone calls from the wife about why her show isn't recording.
> 
> Actually, it's hard to believe it took me over three years to even decide to add more capacity. What finally did it for me is that the wife finally figured out how to record her programs.......and she filled up our internal drive over the last six months. So NOW I become an anomaly.  Still, it's too bad DTV doesn't wish us to have this capability.


OK, that makes everything clearer.  Your wife is gonna fill that 1TB HDD up pretty quickly too. The easiest thing to do is cancel your order for the WD 1TB eSATA and buy a Thermaltake docking station and a 2TB WD EADS or EVDS.

The docking station is as easy to hook up as the WD 1TB eSATA. No tools, just plug the HDD in the docking station and connect the eSATA to eSATA cable to the HR and the docking station.

Make sure you have the power cords for both the docking station and the HR unplugged. Then, with the HDD in the docking station, plug in the docking station's power cord and give it a bit of time to spin up, a minute is plenty of time. Then plug in the power cord of the HR and let it boot up and you'll be good to go. Your wife will have a hard time filling up a 2TB drive, believe me.

The thing to remember is that any HDD in an external device will begin to bog down the HR at about 30% Available capacity. Then, you'll have to keep rebooting the HR and the external device to get your normal speed back. It's much harder to get a 2TB drive filled to that 30% Available mark than it is to reach that point with a 1TB drive, so you'll have less headaches with it.

Rich


----------



## IjustWannaPlay

Just wanted to pass along that I just hooked up a Thermaltake docking station with the lasted Samsung Spinpoint F4 2TB 5400 RPM drive to an HR24. So far everything seems to be working fine.

Note that the Samsung F4 is the new "advanced format" drive with 4k sectors that was not supported until the latest DTV 0x0452 release.


----------



## ntrance

I also posted success with the Samsung F4:
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2644615#post2644615
I'm interested in knowing how you would compare the sound level of the Samsung to the stock drive.


----------



## Paul G

Is there any consensus whether the WD EADS or EVDS is the better choice with a HR20-700? 

I have a few HR20-700’s and have found out the hard way that the EARS do not work reliably. I've installed the “magic jumpers” to slow down the transfer speed and it did NOT fix the problem. 

The problem by the way is that for fast action (like a football game), the screen goes into a digital version of “fuzzy” for a second or two. And it does this as often as once every minute or so, or as seldom as every 30 minutes or so. Just depends on the particular bit stream making up the image for that show. Not a total failure, but annoying enough to definitely NOT use the EARS version of the drives. Movies and other type shows also exhibit the problem, but not nearly as often. 

Since I plan on replacing all my EARS drives, I would rather go with whichever (EADS or EVDS) is the absolute best choice.

Any suggestions?


----------



## Sixto

"Paul G" said:


> Is there any consensus whether the WD EADS or EVDS is the better choice with a HR20-700?
> 
> I have a few HR20-700's and have found out the hard way that the EARS do not work reliably. I've installed the "magic jumpers" to slow down the transfer speed and it did NOT fix the problem.
> 
> The problem by the way is that for fast action (like a football game), the screen goes into a digital version of "fuzzy" for a second or two. And it does this as often as once every minute or so, or as seldom as every 30 minutes or so. Just depends on the particular bit stream making up the image for that show. Not a total failure, but annoying enough to definitely NOT use the EARS version of the drives. Movies and other type shows also exhibit the problem, but not nearly as often.
> 
> Since I plan on replacing all my EARS drives, I would rather go with whichever (EADS or EVDS) is the absolute best choice.
> 
> Any suggestions?


You want the AV-GP models. They were EVDS, now EURS.

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/catalog/


----------



## Rich

Paul G said:


> Is there any consensus whether the WD EADS or EVDS is the better choice with a HR20-700?
> 
> I have a few HR20-700's and have found out the hard way that the EARS do not work reliably. I've installed the "magic jumpers" to slow down the transfer speed and it did NOT fix the problem.
> 
> The problem by the way is that for fast action (like a football game), the screen goes into a digital version of "fuzzy" for a second or two. And it does this as often as once every minute or so, or as seldom as every 30 minutes or so. Just depends on the particular bit stream making up the image for that show. Not a total failure, but annoying enough to definitely NOT use the EARS version of the drives. Movies and other type shows also exhibit the problem, but not nearly as often.
> 
> Since I plan on replacing all my EARS drives, I would rather go with whichever (EADS or EVDS) is the absolute best choice.
> 
> Any suggestions?


We really haven't been using either model long enough to give you a definite answer. The EADS is not made specifically for DVRs and the EVDS is. I've been using the EADS longer than the EVDS and really see no difference in performance except operating temps. The EADS used internally drops my operating temps to about 118 degrees. 123-126 degrees is normal and the EVDS keeps the 20-700s at about that range.

We've seen reports of failures in both models. If I was gonna buy one today, I'd probably go with the EADS. I like that lowered temperature. Another member recently posted about the EURS WD drives. They are made for DVRs too. I haven't tried one, but he liked his. Don't know how much they cost.

Hope this helps, either way you go you will be happy with the performance of the EADS or EVDS. Stay away from the Seagates. The _FAN_ uses Hitachi drives and likes them, but I don't know what model he uses.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Sixto said:


> You want the AV-GP models. They were EVDS, now EURS.
> 
> http://www.wdc.com/en/products/catalog/


That's where it gets confusing, they still list the EVDS.

Rich


----------



## Paul G

rich584 said:


> We really haven't been using either model long enough to give you a definite answer. The EADS is not made specifically for DVRs and the EVDS is. I've been using the EADS longer than the EVDS and really see no difference in performance except operating temps. The EADS used internally drops my operating temps to about 118 degrees. 123-126 degrees is normal and the EVDS keeps the 20-700s at about that range.
> 
> We've seen reports of failures in both models. If I was gonna buy one today, I'd probably go with the EADS. I like that lowered temperature. Another member recently posted about the EURS WD drives. They are made for DVRs too. I haven't tried one, but he liked his. Don't know how much they cost.
> 
> Hope this helps, either way you go you will be happy with the performance of the EADS or EVDS. Stay away from the Seagates. The _FAN_ uses Hitachi drives and likes them, but I don't know what model he uses.
> 
> Rich


Thank you so much for your quick response. Information very much appreciated and understood and except for one detail.

Are you saying that the internal temperature of your D* box is influenced by your choice of which version of drive (EADS or EVDS) that you connect externally? If so, I'm at a loss to understand how that's possible. You have any idea?


----------



## Rich

Paul G said:


> Thank you so much for your quick response. Information very much appreciated and understood and except for one detail.
> 
> Are you saying that the internal temperature of your D* box is influenced by your choice of which version of drive (EADS or EVDS) that you connect externally? If so, I'm at a loss to understand how that's possible. You have any idea?


I thought you were putting the drive/s in in place of your present internal drives. Sorry.

In an external device, if I remember correctly, you have to use the jumper on the HDD when using an EADS externally with a 20-700, internally too, I think. Doesn't hurt to put them on. You don't need the jumpers on the EVDS.

And yes, I think I do remember the temp dropping when I used an EADS externally on one of my leased 20-700s. Not sure, was a while ago.

But again, you'll be pleased with either the EADS or the EVDS. What kind of external device do you use?

Rich


----------



## Paul G

rich584 said:


> I thought you were putting the drive/s in in place of your present internal drives. Sorry.
> 
> In an external device, if I remember correctly, you have to use the jumper on the HDD when using an EADS externally with a 20-700, internally too, I think. Doesn't hurt to put them on. You don't need the jumpers on the EVDS.
> 
> And yes, I think I do remember the temp dropping when I used an EADS externally on one of my leased 20-700s. Not sure, was a while ago.
> 
> But again, you'll be pleased with either the EADS or the EVDS. What kind of external device do you use?
> 
> Rich


Interesting. How difficult is it to change out the internal drive in a HR20-700? Somehow I got the impression that it was difficult (meaning special parts or tools). I think it was from reading on the Weakness site. If it's not that difficult that might be the way to go.

Presently I use the Antec MX-1 external boxes, but the cabling and a good location for the extra box is always an issue. It's just messy and less reliable. Internal sounds very interesting.

Is there any link for information for directions, or is it just obvious when I open the box? By the way, I'm familiar with this type of thing&#8230; "not my first rodeo". So I'm not concerned it the procedure is reasonable.

Thanks again for the advice and help.


----------



## Paul G

Paul G said:


> Interesting. How difficult is it to change out the internal drive in a HR20-700? Somehow I got the impression that it was difficult (meaning special parts or tools). I think it was from reading on the Weakness site. If it's not that difficult that might be the way to go.
> 
> Presently I use the Antec MX-1 external boxes, but the cabling and a good location for the extra box is always an issue. It's just messy and less reliable. Internal sounds very interesting.
> 
> Is there any link for information for directions, or is it just obvious when I open the box? By the way, I'm familiar with this type of thing&#8230; "not my first rodeo". So I'm not concerned it the procedure is reasonable.
> 
> Thanks again for the advice and help.


Update... I was going to order one each of the EADS and EVDS drives and run my own tests. I checked out prices and it looks like Amazon has the best prices that I could find. Looking over the user Amazon feedback for each, it looks like a lot of people have had reliability issues with the EADS drives and much better luck with the EVDS drives. Since the EVDS is designed for video streaming anyway, I decided to purchase one of these to start and do my own tests. I may try it externally first and internally second. I'll be looking at usage and compatibility along with internal temperature of the D* box for each case. If I learn anything new, I'll definitely post it here.

Again, if you have any hints to offer for directions for the internal drive installation, that would be much appreciated.

Thanks again for the help.


----------



## Rich

Paul G said:


> Interesting. How difficult is it to change out the internal drive in a HR20-700? Somehow I got the impression that it was difficult (meaning special parts or tools). I think it was from reading on the Weakness site. If it's not that difficult that might be the way to go.
> 
> Presently I use the Antec MX-1 external boxes, but the cabling and a good location for the extra box is always an issue. It's just messy and less reliable. Internal sounds very interesting.
> 
> Is there any link for information for directions, or is it just obvious when I open the box? By the way, I'm familiar with this type of thing&#8230; "not my first rodeo". So I'm not concerned it the procedure is reasonable.
> 
> Thanks again for the advice and help.


There is a thread about it. Don't remember it's name. You might do a search for it. It's not hard to do.

Rich


----------



## CCarncross

EADS is an older model, I thought that WD was phasing them out, but it appears they are still available. When the EVDS drives came out, stating specifically meant for DVR/PVR use, many of us started buying them. They both work well, and I have not found any temp differences in my own experiences. I have an 2TB EVDS in an MX-1 hooked to my HR20, and a 1.5TB EADS in a TT enclosure hooked to an HR22, both work flawlessly.

Hopefully that helps you make a decision...Bottom line, it probably doesnt matter. They both have proven very reliable by many many people that frequent these forums.


----------



## Rich

CCarncross said:


> EADS is an older model, I thought that WD was phasing them out, but it appears they are still available. When the EVDS drives came out, stating specifically meant for DVR/PVR use, many of us started buying them. They both work well, and I have not found any temp differences in my own experiences. I have an 2TB EVDS in an MX-1 hooked to my HR20, and a 1.5TB EADS in a TT enclosure hooked to an HR22, both work flawlessly.
> 
> Hopefully that helps you make a decision...Bottom line, it probably doesnt matter. They both have proven very reliable by many many people that frequent these forums.


We really have to remember to mention that the EADS HDDs need jumpers on the HDDs and the EVDS (and I would think the new EURS) don't need them. Aside from that, there doesn't seem to be much difference in performance. The temp drop that I've seen when using the EADS internally is something that you might not see using external devices. Don't really remember. I do know the temp drop is definitely there when using them internally.

Rich


----------



## droopdog7

Noe that my kids have gotten old and wise enough to start recording their cartoons on the main DVR, I see that our HD space is woefully inadequate. I am not sure of the model we have but it is either the first or second generation HD DVR from Directv. As they don't publish HD space I am not sure what it is but I believe it is in the neighborhood of 350 GB? 

Anyway, I have been think of connecting an external HD up to 2TB. I know the basics. An external HD replaces the internal HD as long as it is connected. The external will not work once unplugged on any other device. I also believe that if you unplug the external HD and revert to the internal drive, you can recapture the recordings on the internal HD?

Is there anything else I should know about connecting an external HD? Do external HD's come with a fan? Should I worry about an external HD overheating if I put it inside a cabinet? Can I place the external HD on top of the DVR itself since it is no longer using the internal HD? 

Should I expect any external HD to be as reliable as the internal HD? Or do I need to be really picky?

Thanks.


----------



## hasan

droopdog7 said:


> Anyway, I have been think of connecting an external HD up to 2TB. I know the basics. An external HD replaces the internal HD as long as it is connected. The external will not work once unplugged on any other device. I also believe that if you unplug the external HD and revert to the internal drive, you can recapture the recordings on the internal HD?
> 
> Is there anything else I should know about connecting an external HD? Do external HD's come with a fan? Should I worry about an external HD overheating if I put it inside a cabinet? Can I place the external HD on top of the DVR itself since it is no longer using the internal HD?
> 
> Should I expect any external HD to be as reliable as the internal HD? Or do I need to be really picky?
> 
> Thanks.


Get the EVDS drives, as they are designed for DVR use. I use the 2 TB model, which was recommended to me by Rich584, with a Thermaltake dock. I love the drive and dock. Got them from Amazon.

Some drives don't work, so you need to buy one that is known to work, and preferably one that the group here has experience with and recommends. That is why I bought the combo I now have.

I like the evds drive and Thermaltake Dock for several reasons:

0. It is quiet ...no chattering, buzzing or chirping here.
1. Plug and play, there is no simpler installation.
2. Plays cool, without a fan, as the drive is exposed to the open air.
3. Seems to work perfectly for all HR models.

...and most importantly, there are quite a few (probably at least 10) of us that are using this combination successfully on a variety of HR boxes, and are very, very pleased with this setup.

The 2 TB model was around $130, and the dock was $37 or so. Worth every penny. (I'm using it on an HR20-700 and getting well over 500 hours of mpeg-4 HD recording with it. (by calculation). I have yet to get it more than 18% full...it has a LOT of space). I'm sure prices are lower by now, depending on where you buy.

If you have more specific questions about using the EVDS with an enclosure without a dock, then hopefully rich584 will chime in.


----------



## Rich

hasan said:


> Get the EVDS drives, as they are designed for DVR use. I use the 2 TB model, which was recommended to me by Rich584, with a Thermaltake dock. I love the drive and dock. Got them from Amazon.
> 
> Some drives don't work, so you need to buy one that is known to work, and preferably one that the group here has experience with and recommends. That is why I bought the combo I now have.
> 
> I like the evds drive and Thermaltake Dock for several reasons:
> 
> 0. It is quiet ...no chattering, buzzing or chirping here.
> 1. Plug and play, there is no simpler installation.
> 2. Plays cool, without a fan, as the drive is exposed to the open air.
> 3. Seems to work perfectly for all HR models.
> 
> ...and most importantly, there are quite a few (probably at least 10) of us that are using this combination successfully on a variety of HR boxes, and are very, very pleased with this setup.
> 
> The 2 TB model was around $130, and the dock was $37 or so. Worth every penny. (I'm using it on an HR20-700 and getting well over 500 hours of mpeg-4 HD recording with it. (by calculation). I have yet to get it more than 18% full...it has a LOT of space). I'm sure prices are lower by now, depending on where you buy.
> 
> If you have more specific questions about using the EVDS with an enclosure without a dock, then hopefully rich584 will chime in.


You pretty much covered his questions. One thing we should mention is that I don't consider any external device to be as reliable as an HDD installed as an internal drive. Using a large HDD as an internal is so much easier for the HRs to cope with, I think.

For some reason, my TT and the 24-500 it is on disconnected from each other this morning. Wasn't because of a reboot, I keep the front panel dimmed and when I noticed that the pink LED wasn't flashing on the TT, I turned the 500 on and the front panel wasn't lit up, so I know there was not a reboot. Don't have any idea what caused it, but I'm sure happy that TT thought to put that little pink LED in it's docking stations. I own the 500 and I was getting ready to put the 2TB inside the box, but now I'll have to wait and see if it happens again. Just can't figure out what happened. Both the TT and the HR are on UPS. Puzzling.

Rich


----------



## droopdog7

hasan said:


> Get the EVDS drives, as they are designed for DVR use. I use the 2 TB model, which was recommended to me by Rich584, with a Thermaltake dock. I love the drive and dock. Got them from Amazon.
> 
> Some drives don't work, so you need to buy one that is known to work, and preferably one that the group here has experience with and recommends. That is why I bought the combo I now have.
> 
> I like the evds drive and Thermaltake Dock for several reasons:
> 
> 0. It is quiet ...no chattering, buzzing or chirping here.
> 1. Plug and play, there is no simpler installation.
> 2. Plays cool, without a fan, as the drive is exposed to the open air.
> 3. Seems to work perfectly for all HR models.
> 
> ...and most importantly, there are quite a few (probably at least 10) of us that are using this combination successfully on a variety of HR boxes, and are very, very pleased with this setup.
> 
> The 2 TB model was around $130, and the dock was $37 or so. Worth every penny. (I'm using it on an HR20-700 and getting well over 500 hours of mpeg-4 HD recording with it. (by calculation). I have yet to get it more than 18% full...it has a LOT of space). I'm sure prices are lower by now, depending on where you buy.
> 
> If you have more specific questions about using the EVDS with an enclosure without a dock, then hopefully rich584 will chime in.


Thanks Hasan (and Rich). A quick search revealed to me that evds is part of the model name on some Western Digital hard drives. Is this what I am looking for and are we talking strictly Western Digital hard drives? Second, you mentioned a docking station. What exactly is that used for and can HD and docking station be bought together. Finally, you mention that you don't worry about overheating because your HD is in the open. I would prefer to tuck mine away in a cabinet so I am wondering if that could be an issue.

And another finally. I notice many of the pictures show the HD on its side. Would there be a problem if I layed it down flat?

Thanks again.


----------



## Starrbuck

I just wanted to say I got the 2TB EVDS and Thermaltake docking station combo from amazon.com last week for my HR24-500 and I *love* it. Inexpensive, fast, quiet, cool, and tons of space.

Hard drive:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002G1YPPW

Docking station:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001A4HAFS


----------



## Rich

droopdog7 said:



> Thanks Hasan (and Rich). A quick search revealed to me that evds is part of the model name on some Western Digital hard drives. Is this what I am looking for and are we talking strictly Western Digital hard drives? Second, you mentioned a docking station. What exactly is that used for and can HD and docking station be bought together. Finally, you mention that you don't worry about overheating because your HD is in the open. I would prefer to tuck mine away in a cabinet so I am wondering if that could be an issue.


You're probably better off with what we know will work. Right now, I know the EADS and EVDS from WD will work with any HR. The WD EURS has just come out and it is also designed for DVRs. I haven't tried one yet, but I will this summer and also intend to give the Hitachi a shot.



> And another finally. I notice many of the pictures show the HD on its side. Would there be a problem if I layed it down flat?


You can't lay a docking station flat. You can lay an Antec MX-1 flat and we know that they are reliable enclosures and will work with every HR. Don't worry about the heat with either external device, unless you put it in a cabinet without any ventilation. Nobody does that, I hope.

Rich


----------



## Polecat

I just put 2 of these; ST3500320SV-R -- Seagate SV35.3 500GB SATA/300 f/DVR's  $34.99 each (refurbished)
into one of these; NH-251 3.5" USB 2.0/eSATA External Dual SATA RAID HDD Enclosure $37.99 
and hooked it up to an HR 20-100 and it seems to all be working so far. 
The enclosure will do 1.5TB total, so a pair of 750's would be a nice fit.


----------



## captainjrl

Has anybody tried one of these drives yet?

Link


----------



## CCarncross

captainjrl said:


> Has anybody tried one of these drives yet?
> 
> Link


Most of us here are pretty confident that 3TB drives are not usable due to OS kernel limitations....there is a recent thread somewhere about someone not getting a 3TB to work.

A gentle reminder, if you're filling 2TB drives up to the point you need larger drives, when are you ever going to get around to watching that 400-500 hours of programming? It is a live drive, it will eventually fail, it is not designed as a permanent archive solution...when you get to the point of a few hundred hours of programming, you have to consider when do you replace the drive, obviously you need to do it b4 catastrophic failure.

I came to this realization a few months ago and started looking at some of the programming I had saved up, 2 seasons of Medium, the entire final season of 24, etc....and I said to myself, "Self, when am I going to watch all this." I replied "probably never, if I really want to see it I'll get it on Netflix"


----------



## Richierich

CCarncross, I agree with you to some extent but I have & DVRs with 13,000 Gigabytes of Storage and 3 DVRs back up the other 4 DVRs as a kind of Archival System or Back Up System.

So when one of my hard drive fail I can find that show or recording on another.

However, I wish I could just back them up on USB External Drives so when they fail I could replace the drive and then download them back to the new drive.

Maybe someday we will be able to do that but that is the way a few of us accomplish the Back Up Plan.

I agree with you that we record too much stuff that we think we will want to watch later and never do because we are constantly recording new stuff or it's embedded in pages and pages of the Playlist but if I need to I can find stuff recorded long ago that maybe once a year I will go back and watch. 

However, you just don't have time and when I don't after a while I perform maintenance procedures and delete those recordings.

Just a thought.


----------



## Rich

CCarncross said:


> Most of us here are pretty confident that 3TB drives are not usable due to OS kernel limitations....there is a recent thread somewhere about someone not getting a 3TB to work.
> 
> A gentle reminder, if you're filling 2TB drives up to the point you need larger drives, when are you ever going to get around to watching that 400-500 hours of programming? It is a live drive, it will eventually fail, it is not designed as a permanent archive solution...when you get to the point of a few hundred hours of programming, you have to consider when do you replace the drive, obviously you need to do it b4 catastrophic failure.
> 
> I came to this realization a few months ago and started looking at some of the programming I had saved up, 2 seasons of Medium, the entire final season of 24, etc....and I said to myself, "Self, when am I going to watch all this." I replied "probably never, if I really want to see it I'll get it on Netflix"


Before you guys drive yourselves batty trying to use 3TB HDDs, you might take a good look at *CCarncross's* and *Richierich's* posts on this thread. They've both been at this for some time.

The only reason I use 2TB HDDs is because I think that the HDDs _*won't*_ get filled up. The HRs just seem to run better with a partly filled HDD either in it or, more importantly, used as an external. The load you put on any HR with *any size* HDD that is full is very apparent when you reach over 70% full. Not as apparent on the internal HDDs, but very apparent on the externals.

Recording content is not just about the capacity of your HDDs, it's actually easier to maintain and keep a great deal of content if you have numerous tuners, which means you need more than one HR. Having only one HR and a huge HDD (and believe me, 2TBs of content is huge) that is full is a recipe for disaster if the HR fails or the HDD fails (admittedly that is rare).

Rich


----------



## Richierich

rich584 said:


> Recording content is not just about the capacity of your HDDs, it's actually easier to maintain and keep a great deal of content if you have numerous tuners, which means you need more than one HR. Having only one HR and a huge HDD (and believe me, 2TBs of content is huge) that is full is a recipe for disaster if the HR fails or the HDD fails (admittedly that is rare).
> 
> Rich


EXACTLY!!!

Rather than have One DVR with a 3 TB drive in it (assuming that it was possible to actually use it which I don't believe it is) is not as good as having Two DVRs each with a 1.5 or 2 TB drive in them and having each record the same shows if you want back up capability.

If the 3 TB drive fails you are totally screwed as you have no back up process. Again 3 of my DVRs back up my other 4 DVRs, however not every recording is backed up or duplicated on another DVR. Only those that I deem necessary or important enough to have backed up or duplicated.


----------



## top_speed

top_speed said:


> _Just thought I would update (in case somebody else has the same prob)_
> 
> OK, it's strange but the WD 2TB Green Drive works quite nicely "now"...
> Day 1: (no 5/6 jumper) lockups w/ remote and screen, lag was a kind word for it.
> Day 2: (I write in here after putting on the 5/6 jumper) much better but still had skips/blips
> Day 3: Noticed all my new stuff (1080i &p) recorded stuff wasn't skipping, just the Day 1 & 2 content
> Day 4: Erased prior content. Recorded "Hard Knocks" on HBO, perrrfect!
> Day 5: Now have 3 HBO HD movies recorded, 1 pre-season FBall game and on replay only noticed 1 quick blip (may even have been in the original transmission).
> 
> So strange as it is, it got better with time. Maybe it kept formatting itself? Defragged? (I did hear the HD working even when the receiver was off) so whatever it did it made itself better w/ time (like fine wine!)
> 
> *-Happy now  *and w/ the 3 HD movies, 1hr HD "Hard Knocks" show & 1 complete HD Football game my drive still says 97% free!! (was 98% until the FB game of 3hrs was added)


**UPDATE* (upgrade*
I purchased a new HR24-200 Sammy b/c I was sold on the youtube videos on the menu speed etc.
So.. I also decided to get a drive that was built for this A/V stuff and 24/7 usage and went with the 2TB WD WD20EVDS ...credit to all the reading I have done here in this Forum... Thanks guys!

Today I start the install and opening up of newly purchased HR24 (ouch!) to install the EVDS drive internally. I DO NOT want to go external (and power an internal drive) that will do absolutely nothing and also have a MX-1 case that is a dust sucker. I want streamline and efficiency and don't mind killing the HR24 warranty.

On the leasing crap: DTV scares me about as much as a jaywalking ticket. I've been a customer & DTV installer/dealer since 1994. I have installed more than 5000 C-Band (4ghz) systems before Thompson even knew what the 12.2 market was about. I have read tons of posts of "you can't do that b/c your leased" haa bullcrapola. I purchased my receiver persoanlly, I will do with it as I please period. If it weren't for Sunday Tix I would be on DN in a heartbeat. I have personally sat and had dinner with Mr Charlie Ergan (and his wife Candy) and he is a SUPER great guy! _+ He knows that paying for HD (extra $10/mo) is BS! _OK... I vented, now I got to get to work and install my EVDS drive and test out my new toy 

Cheers all, love this place!


----------



## Rich

top_speed said:


> **UPDATE* (upgrade*
> I purchased a new HR24-200 Sammy b/c I was sold on the youtube videos on the menu speed etc.
> So.. I also decided to get a drive that was built for this A/V stuff and 24/7 usage and went with the 2TB WD WD20EVDS ...credit to all the reading I have done here in this Forum... Thanks guys!
> 
> Today I start the install and opening up of newly purchased HR24 (ouch!) to install the EVDS drive internally. I DO NOT want to go external (and power an internal drive) that will do absolutely nothing and also have a MX-1 case that is a dust sucker. I want streamline and efficiency and don't mind killing the HR24 warranty.
> 
> On the leasing crap: DTV scares me about as much as a jaywalking ticket. I've been a customer & DTV installer/dealer since 1994. I have installed more than 5000 C-Band (4ghz) systems before Thompson even knew what the 12.2 market was about. I have read tons of posts of "you can't do that b/c your leased" haa bullcrapola. I purchased my receiver persoanlly, I will do with it as I please period. If it weren't for Sunday Tix I would be on DN in a heartbeat. I have personally sat and had dinner with Mr Charlie Ergan (and his wife Candy) and he is a SUPER great guy! _+ He knows that paying for HD (extra $10/mo) is BS! _OK... I vented, now I got to get to work and install my EVDS drive and test out my new toy
> 
> Cheers all, love this place!


Well, that cracked me up! Next time, don't hold anything back!.....:lol:

Thanx for the chuckle,

Rich


----------



## Richierich

top_speed, why don't you tell us how you really feel!!! :lol:


----------



## styrum

rich584 said:


> The WD EURS has just come out and it is also designed for DVRs. I haven't tried one yet, but I will this summer and also intend to give the Hitachi a shot.
> 
> Rich


I have just tried WD15EURS with HR24/500 (firmware 0x452 circa 12/15/10). It works despite it is an "advanced format" drive. So, 0x452 must have added the neccesary support for them.


----------



## namklak

Right now, from D*, the HR24-200 comes with a ST3500312CS. Anecdotal evidence of 1, my first one died (the hard drive) in 3 weeks. D* replaced unit n/c. Seagate claims this drive can handle up to 75 degrees C. My HR24 hard drive is reporting 113 degrees F right now. If I go external, I should be able to cut at least 15 degrees F off, eh? That can't hurt...
Note both Seagate and WD claim 10 simul HD streams - Seagate has a 8MB buffer, WD has a 32MB buffer. I care more about reliability - I don't necessarily need more capacity, but if I go ext, I'll go at least 1TB. More if the CFO allows...
Hmmm...


----------



## Rich

styrum said:


> I have just tried WD15EURS with HR24/500 (firmware 0x452 circa 12/15/10). It works despite it is an "advanced format" drive. So, 0x452 must have added the neccesary support for them.


I do want to try the EURS drives. I think they must be the next step up from the EVDS drives. I'm pretty sure they worked before the 452 NR. Don't know which NR provided the update that allowed for the more advanced HDDs to work.

Rich


----------



## Rich

namklak said:


> Right now, from D*, the HR24-200 comes with a ST3500312CS.


That's the 500GB version of the Pipeline series of HDDs from Seagate.



> Seagate claims this drive can handle up to 75 degrees C. My HR24 hard drive is reporting 113 degrees F right now. If I go external, I should be able to cut at least 15 degrees F off, eh?


I kinda doubt you'll see that much difference in temps.



> I care more about reliability - I don't necessarily need more capacity, but if I go ext, I'll go at least 1TB. More if the CFO allows...
> Hmmm...


Go for the 2TB EVDS or EURS drives, you'll just be kicking yourself if you don't. 1TB is kinda small.

Rich


----------



## top_speed

richierich said:


> top_speed, why don't you tell us how you really feel!!! :lol:


I know really... I get wound up w/ DTV round table discusion, maybe decaf is in store!

So I got the HR24 installed with my EVDS and so far good but I have no milage on it to speak of so we'll see over time.

[on to chore II- *disc cloning*]
I have 50% programming on my "6 mo. old" 2TB Green drive that I'm going to copy over to the EVDS. I purchased a SATA-to-SATA (sector & data) copier box to do the chore. If anybody's interested in "easy" SATA cloning: http://www.usbgear.com/SS-126ASD.html
I will let ya know how the "easy" part goes


----------



## Rich

top_speed said:


> I know really... I get wound up w/ DTV round table discusion, maybe decaf is in store!
> 
> So I got the HR24 installed with my EVDS and so far good but I have no milage on it to speak of so we'll see over time.
> 
> [on to chore II- *disc cloning*]
> I have 50% programming on my "6 mo. old" 2TB Green drive that I'm going to copy over to the EVDS. I purchased a SATA-to-SATA (sector & data) copier box to do the chore. If anybody's interested in "easy" SATA cloning: http://www.usbgear.com/SS-126ASD.html
> I will let ya know how the "easy" part goes


Really gotta wonder if that will allow the newly cloned drive to work in the original HR. Or if it might work in another HR. Thanx for the link. Looks too easy to be true, but I do hope it works for you. Would be a great thing to be able to do. If it will allow the content to be viewed by an HR that did not make the recordings. The HRs usually fail before the HDDs do, at least in my experience. Then you're stuck, as it stands now.

Rich


----------



## top_speed

Yes Rich wondering myself (and fingers are crossed!). Not sure what formatting is used by DTV for this, I'm thinking it's a Linux kernel and file system. If that's true the sectors and data cloning should be no problem as this box advertises.



Just wondering if my HR24 should run without the cover on?

It's in a black case/rack w tinted front glass, plenty of fresh air (8-10" above w/ open back and doesn't seem hardly warm at all with case lid but *if the EVDS drive stays cooler* w/out the cover on it? ...got me thinking; _To lid, or not to lid._


----------



## Mike Bertelson

top_speed said:


> Yes Rich wondering myself (and fingers are crossed!). Not sure what formatting is used by DTV for this, I'm thinking it's a Linux kernel and file system. If that's true the sectors and data cloning should be no problem as this box advertises.
> 
> 
> 
> Just wondering if my HR24 should run without the cover on?
> 
> It's in a black case/rack w tinted front glass, plenty of fresh air (8-10" above w/ open back and doesn't seem hardly warm at all with case lid but *if the EVDS drive stays cooler* w/out the cover on it? ...got me thinking; _To lid, or not to lid._


Wouldn't the lid be integral to keeping stray RF in the box? I know when my PC is open and running I get interference on the cordless phone when I'm in the same room.

Mike


----------



## top_speed

Maybe but not sure on any levels that are harmful? Anybody using an HR24 (or HR*) lidless and still has hair and is fertile?


----------



## Richierich

top_speed said:


> Yes Rich wondering myself (and fingers are crossed!). Not sure what formatting is used by DTV for this, I'm thinking it's a Linux kernel and file system. If that's true the sectors and data cloning should be no problem as this box advertises.
> [/I]


Yes, it is a Linux Kernel and File System.

I have used it without the lid and I am still alive.


----------



## ntrance

top_speed said:


> I purchased a SATA-to-SATA (sector & data) copier box to do the chore. If anybody's interested in "easy" SATA cloning: http://www.usbgear.com/SS-126ASD.html
> I will let ya know how the "easy" part goes


It is doubtful that copier will work for this purpose especially since they make no mention of XFS support. All previous software based bit for bit cloning techniques have failed.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

top_speed said:


> Maybe but not sure on any levels that are harmful? Anybody using an HR24 (or HR*) lidless and still has hair and is fertile?


I don't think it's harmful but, as I pointed out in my previous post, it interfers with cordless phones and also wireless networks. :grin:

Mike


----------



## Rich

top_speed said:


> Yes Rich wondering myself (and fingers are crossed!). Not sure what formatting is used by DTV for this, I'm thinking it's a Linux kernel and file system. If that's true the sectors and data cloning should be no problem as this box advertises.
> 
> 
> 
> Just wondering if my HR24 should run without the cover on?
> 
> It's in a black case/rack w tinted front glass, plenty of fresh air (8-10" above w/ open back and doesn't seem hardly warm at all with case lid but *if the EVDS drive stays cooler* w/out the cover on it? ...got me thinking; _To lid, or not to lid._


I gather you're talking about the experiment and what it will do to the temp. If you've got doubts, leave it off. Normally, a 24 will run within it's temp parameters, but it's always good to check.

Rich


----------



## top_speed

Since the new EVDS drive is _very quiet_ I may leave the lid off. I can always use electro canned air from time to time to blow out any dust it may collect. My main concern is to keep the two units up and dependable for a very long time, running cool temps can only help.


----------



## Rich

top_speed said:


> Since the new EVDS drive is _very quiet_ I may leave the lid off. I can always use electro canned air from time to time to blow out any dust it may collect. My main concern is to keep the two units up and dependable for a very long time, running cool temps can only help.


I really wouldn't worry about the HDD as much as the HR itself. No matter what you read on the forum, I really doubt that the HDDs are as problematic as the posts suggest. Out of all the HRs I've had since late '06 (over 50), I can only point to two HDDs that I knew for sure were bad.

Rich


----------



## CCarncross

Leaving the lid off a device with a fan inside may actually cause it to run warmer. PC type device with fans inside them, are actually meant to be sealed up so the airflow can do its thing....


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> I have used it without the lid and I am still alive.





CCarncross said:


> *Leaving the lid off a device with a fan inside may actually cause it to run warmer*. PC type device with fans inside them, are actually meant to be sealed up so the airflow can do its thing....


A good point...the airflow is much stronger with the lid in place.


----------



## top_speed

So far the fan has never come on with the lid off (only been 24hrs) but never seen/heard the fan and I've been monitoring.


----------



## top_speed

BTW- What a difference the HR24 is over my old HR21-700. It's like going from the (kiddie) saucer ride to the biggest/fastest roller coaster in the park. 

Adrenaline junkies like me? acquire an HR24 today and breathe!

The EVDS drive is still in extended test mode, we'll see if it stays in my theme park


----------



## lenbo

Anyone know where a tutorial with pic's of a hard drive swap of the HR24 might be ? Thanks


----------



## Richierich

lenbo said:


> Anyone know where a tutorial with pic's of a hard drive swap of the HR24 might be ? Thanks


No, but it Ain't Rocket Science but only recommended if you Own Your Own DVR!!!


----------



## ersmith

I've found a great way to keep all of my hotter running components nice and cool. Pick up some flat laptop cooling bases and place them upside down over the top vents on your components. You do need a nearby device or two to have a USB port to power these things. No problem using a USB hub or even a USB charger.

Eric


----------



## JoeGie

pretty sure my unit was updated this morning to enable youtube videos, noticed that my recorded programs didnt show up. running 2tb external hd, rebooted the unit shows showed back up but the TV wasn't getting satellite signal. rebooted the unit again shows work again but it is not recognizing the external HD now. Rebooted numerous times with the same outcome. Last resort will be to hook it up to my other DVR to see if the unit works and maybe buy a new HD or external dock. Anyone else having this problem?

Using Thermaltake BlacX Dock and WD WD20EVDS.


----------



## hasan

JoeGie said:


> pretty sure my unit was updated this morning to enable youtube videos, noticed that my recorded programs didnt show up. running 2tb external hd, rebooted the unit shows showed back up but the TV wasn't getting satellite signal. rebooted the unit again shows work again but it is not recognizing the external HD now. Rebooted numerous times with the same outcome. Last resort will be to hook it up to my other DVR to see if the unit works and maybe buy a new HD or external dock. Anyone else having this problem?
> 
> Using Thermaltake BlacX Dock and WD WD20EVDS.


Shut down the sat box, then pull its plug. Power down the dock. Pull the eSATA plug from the back of the sat box. Wait a few seconds. (15). Plug the eSATA cable back in. Turn on the power to the eSATA drive. Wait about 30 to 45 seconds for the eSATA drive to spin up and settle. Power up the sat box and wait.

I've had to do this a few times to get the eSATA drive to be recognized. I'm using the same dock and drive on an HR20-700.

I went through this process twice in a row, but did not disconnect the eSATA cable from the back of the powered down sat box, and it did not work. I had to disconnect the eSATA cable from the sat box (as above) to get it to work.

Now..it is possible that it just took 3 tries to get things to work and pulling the eSATA cable from the powered down sat box had nothing to do with it, but I can't prove it, so I stick with what worked when I'm faced with the problem. I've had several reboots since then, and the eSATA has always been recognized without having to go through the above procedure.

Hope this helps ya.


----------



## TomCat

Since the software up rev (specifically the note about "4K sectors") does this mean that the WD EARS drives will now work?


----------



## JoeGie

hasan said:


> Shut down the sat box, then pull its plug. Power down the dock. Pull the eSATA plug from the back of the sat box. Wait a few seconds. (15). Plug the eSATA cable back in. Turn on the power to the eSATA drive. Wait about 30 to 45 seconds for the eSATA drive to spin up and settle. Power up the sat box and wait.
> 
> I've had to do this a few times to get the eSATA drive to be recognized. I'm using the same dock and drive on an HR20-700.
> 
> I went through this process twice in a row, but did not disconnect the eSATA cable from the back of the powered down sat box, and it did not work. I had to disconnect the eSATA cable from the sat box (as above) to get it to work.
> 
> Now..it is possible that it just took 3 tries to get things to work and pulling the eSATA cable from the powered down sat box had nothing to do with it, but I can't prove it, so I stick with what worked when I'm faced with the problem. I've had several reboots since then, and the eSATA has always been recognized without having to go through the above procedure.
> 
> Hope this helps ya.


thank you, i will try to run thru this a few more times before i plug it into another dvr to test it. not sure if this makes a difference but i just pulled the plug from the back, but I will try to power down the box then run thru your steps and report back. hopefully it's not a dead drive or dock, only been using is since october.


----------



## Rich

TomCat said:


> Since the software up rev (specifically the note about "4K sectors") does this mean that the WD EARS drives will now work?


From the posts I've read, yes, the EARS will now work.

Rich


----------



## Rich

hasan said:


> Shut down the sat box, then pull its plug. Power down the dock. Pull the eSATA plug from the back of the sat box. Wait a few seconds. (15). Plug the eSATA cable back in. Turn on the power to the eSATA drive. Wait about 30 to 45 seconds for the eSATA drive to spin up and settle. Power up the sat box and wait.
> 
> I've had to do this a few times to get the eSATA drive to be recognized. I'm using the same dock and drive on an HR20-700.
> 
> I went through this process twice in a row, but did not disconnect the eSATA cable from the back of the powered down sat box, and it did not work. I had to disconnect the eSATA cable from the sat box (as above) to get it to work.
> 
> Now..it is possible that it just took 3 tries to get things to work and pulling the eSATA cable from the powered down sat box had nothing to do with it, but I can't prove it, so I stick with what worked when I'm faced with the problem. I've had several reboots since then, and the eSATA has always been recognized without having to go through the above procedure.
> 
> Hope this helps ya.


I've noticed that the Thermaltakes take a bit longer to spin up than the MX-1s do. If you hold your fingers on the HDD when you reboot the TT, you'll see what I mean. I think that this difference, coupled with the speed of the 24s, causes the HR and the TT to not sync up properly. You can actually "feel" when the TT has spun up and is ready to be connected to the HR. I think this also happens to TTs and the 20-700s, just not as often.

Rich


----------



## rsblaski

Not sure if I'm just lucky, but with both my MX-1 and TT Blacx, I was able to connect in a very lazy way: I turned on the external drive, connected it to the dvr (while it was still using the internal HD), did a menu reset, and when the dvr restarted, it recognized and formatted the external drive. I did it this way on both an HR20 and HR21.


----------



## Rich

rsblaski said:


> Not sure if I'm just lucky, but with both my MX-1 and TT Blacx, I was able to connect in a very lazy way: I turned on the external drive, connected it to the dvr (while it was still using the internal HD), did a menu reset, and when the dvr restarted, it recognized and formatted the external drive. I did it this way on both an HR20 and HR21.


You got lucky. If you keep doing that, sooner or later you'll run into problems.

Rich


----------



## JoeGie

rich584 said:


> I've noticed that the Thermaltakes take a bit longer to spin up than the MX-1s do. If you hold your fingers on the HDD when you reboot the TT, you'll see what I mean. I think that this difference, coupled with the speed of the 24s, causes the HR and the TT to not sync up properly. You can actually "feel" when the TT has spun up and is ready to be connected to the HR. I think this also happens to TTs and the 20-700s, just not as often.
> 
> Rich


hmmmm i just tried a menu reset right now.

So here's the story, did what Hasan suggested, did not work. Plugged it into the DVR I had upstairs and all the shows showed up, weird considering i've read that once you plug it into another DVR it would reformat the drive. Plugged it back in downstairs and voila all shows showed up again! Turn on TV this AM, find a show recording I know that I have already. Not recognizing external HD again. Pretty stumped, should I maybe try a new HD or a new enclosure? Only been using it since October.

*EDIT*: Come to the conclusion that the e-sata port is bad in the back, other DVR unit reads the external drive with no problems. Waiting for DirecTV to call me back to schedule a tech to come out hopefully to swap the unit. Will probably mess with the unit again tonight.


----------



## pdvigil

Has anyone attempted to open the HR24 case and see if there is a jumper setting to set the drives? Similar to how you set PC drives to Master/Slave/Auto? Seems like a waste to replace a 500GB drive with a 1TB eSATA drive, as you are purchasing 1TB of storage but are only increasing your storage by 500GB?


----------



## Rich

pdvigil said:


> Has anyone attempted to open the HR24 case and see if there is a jumper setting to set the drives? Similar to how you set PC drives to Master/Slave/Auto? Seems like a waste to replace a 500GB drive with a 1TB eSATA drive, as you are purchasing 1TB of storage but are only increasing your storage by 500GB?


I've had my owned 24-200 open and my owned 24-500 opened and the jumper settings on the HDDs depends on which HDD you get, not the HR. The WD EVDS and, I would think, the WD EURS (perhaps someone can verify this) don't need jumpers. The WD EADS HDDs do need the jumpers. Easier to buy the EVDS.

I agree with you about the size of the HDDs. I would recommend putting at least a 1.5TB HDD in if you're going to go thru the trouble of replacing the internal drive. If you're gonna add a 1.5, you might as well spend a few more bucks and put in a 2TB drive.

For an external drive, the larger the HDD, the less problems you'll have when/if the HDD reaches about 70% full.

Rich


----------



## rsblaski

rich584 said:


> You got lucky. If you keep doing that, sooner or later you'll run into problems.
> 
> Rich


Just curious, what problems?
BTW, if you download new firmware, how would you handle that?


----------



## CCarncross

pdvigil said:


> Has anyone attempted to open the HR24 case and see if there is a jumper setting to set the drives? Similar to how you set PC drives to Master/Slave/Auto? Seems like a waste to replace a 500GB drive with a 1TB eSATA drive, as you are purchasing 1TB of storage but are only increasing your storage by 500GB?


SATA doesnt work like that...Master/slave/auto is only for IDE. There is no master/slave in the SATA world.


----------



## Rich

rsblaski said:


> Just curious, what problems?


Freeze-ups, lockups, stuttering, all the things associated with a bad HDD, but probably more the fault of the eSATA controller of your external device. They seem to be the first things to go. When these symptoms appear, the blame is usually put on the HDD, but if you take the HDD out of the external device and put it in a new one, it usually works.

I know you can do what you posted about and sometimes it works, but I wouldn't do that. I just wouldn't take the chance.



> BTW, if you download new firmware, how would you handle that?


If I was a member of the CE forces, I would download a version after taking my external device off line and just download to the internal HDD, then hook up the external device and do a proper reboot of both the external device and the HR.

For a normal NR, I always reboot both my 24-500 and it's attendant docking station as soon as I see that I've received the NR. Very few NRs don't cause some problems with the HRs and their externals. We see posts about them, but, they are kinda rare. They do occur tho. The MX-1s seem to handle NRs really well, but the docking stations seem have problems with them. Again, it's rare.

Rich


----------



## pdvigil

Thanks. the 70% thing is good to know. I have a standalone Panasonic DVD recorder connected to my system. So I plan to transfer to DVD anything worth keeping & shoot for 50% max on my HR24. It's analog, w/o digital audio, etc, but it'll work. I initially registered w/ DBStalk to see about transferring content directly from the DVR in digital form to my HTPC, but seems like that is a no go due to content on HD being married to DVR and encrypted.


----------



## Rich

pdvigil said:


> Thanks. the 70% thing is good to know. I have a standalone Panasonic DVD recorder connected to my system. So I plan to transfer to DVD anything worth keeping & shoot for 50% max on my HR24. It's analog, w/o digital audio, etc, but it'll work. I initially registered w/ DBStalk to see about transferring content directly from the DVR in digital form to my HTPC, but seems like that is a no go due to content on HD being married to DVR and encrypted.


Yeah, we've been complaining about the "marriage" thing for years and gotten nowhere. The only time people care is when their HR goes belly up and you're stuck with an eSATA with a lot of recordings that you can see listed but can't play.

Rich


----------



## Richierich

rich584 said:


> Yeah, we've been complaining about the "marriage" thing for years and gotten nowhere. The only time people care is when their HR goes belly up and you're stuck with an eSATA with a lot of recordings that you can see listed but can't play.
> Rich


This may change in the Future with the hints we have received about Nomad so maybe there is hope this will change.


----------



## Rich

richierich said:


> This may change in the Future with the hints we have received about Nomad so maybe there is hope this will change.


One can only hope.

Rich


----------



## pdvigil

Theoretically, you can do this now. If you have your DVR networked, downloading DirecTV contact, etc. you can use DirecTV2PC to access your DVR content to other computers on your network. Then if want to get fancy, you can use a program like LogMeIn to access your PC from another device anywhere remotely......Should I have not posted that?!


----------



## Rich

pdvigil said:


> Theoretically, you can do this now. If you have your DVR networked, downloading DirecTV contact, etc. you can use DirecTV2PC to access your DVR content to other computers on your network. Then if want to get fancy, you can use a program like LogMeIn to access your PC from another device anywhere remotely......Should I have not posted that?!


We are talking about using any HR within an account to access any content from any HDD within an account. I realize we can do that now with MRV, but we'd like to be able to do it if an HR fails with a large internal or large external HDD. We'd like to be able to physically swap HDDs within an account to any other HRs within that account. The way it is now, if an HR fails, all content on it's attendant HDD is lost forever.

Rich


----------



## pdvigil

Agreed. I think that having content on an external HDD encrypted to a specific HR is a little severe. They should loosen that up so that if an HR fails, the external HDD can be transferred to another DIRECTV unit. Not to mention allow the internal and external HDD both to work, even if one is a primary and one is a back up.


----------



## Rich

pdvigil said:


> Agreed. I think that having content on an external HDD encrypted to a specific HR is a little severe. They should loosen that up so that if an HR fails, the external HDD can be transferred to another DIRECTV unit. Not to mention allow the internal and external HDD both to work, even if one is a primary and one is a back up.


I don't think it's even worth bothering with the internal drives once you add a 1.5 or 2TB external. Both are more than enough storage for most folks. I was gonna upgrade my 1.5s to 2TBs this summer after I cleared them, but I've changed my mind. None of my 1.5s are over 50% full.

I guess if you've only got one HR, it would be nice to incorporate the internal drive into the external and add both together, but who has only one HR?

Rich


----------



## pdvigil

Regarding: "...using any HR within an account to access any content from any HDD within an account..."

Doesn't the DirecTV Whole-home DVR service do this? 

I think we are on two tracks here. My objective is to be able to separate content from the DVR hard drive in digital form to be archived more permanently either in unencrypted format on a computer or to DVD. Currently content on your DVR or external HDD is only as permanent as long as you stay with that particular DVR. Thanks.


----------



## Rich

pdvigil said:


> Regarding: "...using any HR within an account to access any content from any HDD within an account..."
> 
> Doesn't the DirecTV Whole-home DVR service do this?


Yes, but not in the way we want it to. What we've been trying to get D* to do for years is to allow any HR to play content from any HDD in an account. MRV does that, but it doesn't take into consideration what happens to content if an HR fails. When an HR fails, you lose all that content. MRV does nothing to help if that happens.



> I think we are on two tracks here. My objective is to be able to separate content from the DVR hard drive in digital form to be archived more permanently either in unencrypted format on a computer or to DVD. Currently content on your DVR or external HDD is only as permanent as long as you stay with that particular DVR. Thanks.


I think we're looking for the same thing. You could easily archive content if you could read any HDD from any HR within an account. The HDDs are far less prone to failure than the HRs and merely duplicating recordings on two HDDs would probably be what you're looking for. If you could access that content on any HR within your account.

Rich


----------



## harsh

rich584 said:


> I don't think it's even worth bothering with the internal drives once you add a 1.5 or 2TB external. Both are more than enough storage for most folks.


If you're a hard-core archiver, it would be a delight not to have to re-program/update your recording preferences each time you added/swapped a drive.


----------



## Richierich

harsh said:


> If you're a hard-core archiver, it would be a delight not to have to re-program/update your recording preferences each time you added/swapped a drive.


We've also asked that Profile Settings be included in the Archival Process if Directv ever decides to go in that direction.


----------



## harsh

pdvigil said:


> My objective is to be able to separate content from the DVR hard drive in digital form to be archived more permanently either in unencrypted format on a computer or to DVD.


There's only one way to do it with any semblance of quality and going forward, it is likely that the "analog hole" will ultimately be closed. We know from history of the HR2x series that DIRECTV has the ability to temporarily disable analog outputs as needed.

My take is that programmatic transfers will likely be compromised (downresed, surround removed) to satisfy the requirements of the content providers. The HDMI specification speaks to what could be considered an acceptable level in discussing the failure to negotiate HDCP.

I think there's too much at stake for DIRECTV to try to pick and choose (TiVo does, but they're not beholden to the providers) what content can be transferred intact, what must be compromised and what cannot be transferred at all.


----------



## pdvigil

Same reason they killed the D* HDPC-20


----------



## harsh

pdvigil said:


> Same reason they killed the D* HDPC-20


And probably DIRECTV2Go as well.


----------



## yoccm1

I'm having issue installing the G Force 2TB drive on my Direct TV HR24-200 box. I' getting a 75-367 error code. What did you do differently to get it to work? I plugged in HD and waited about 30 seconds and then turned on the power to the HR24. 

Thanks, Jason


----------



## Rich

yoccm1 said:


> I'm having issue installing the G Force 2TB drive on my Direct TV HR24-200 box. I' getting a 75-367 error code. What did you do differently to get it to work? I plugged in HD and waited about 30 seconds and then turned on the power to the HR24.
> 
> Thanks, Jason


Did you put the eSATA to eSATA cable between the 200 and the eSATA first? If you did, all you should have to do is power up the eSATA and then boot up the HR. Why did you buy that eSATA? Not sure if I've ever seen a post about them...I just looked at them on NewEgg and they might not be compatible with the 200s. Didn't realize that they were Fantoms. I seem to remember posts about problems with them and some of the HRs. You might have an incompatibility problem. We usually recommend the WD EVDS drives and either an Antec MX-1 or a Thermaltake docking station. They work well on every HR.

Rich


----------



## CCarncross

yoccm1 said:


> I'm having issue installing the G Force 2TB drive on my Direct TV HR24-200 box. I' getting a 75-367 error code. What did you do differently to get it to work? I plugged in HD and waited about 30 seconds and *then turned on the power to the HR24. *
> 
> Thanks, Jason


Did you actually do a shutdown of your HR-24 and pull the plug when all the lights went out? Then attach the external drive, power up the external drive, wait a minute or 2, then plug the HR24 back in. YOu can't just turn off the dvr then plug in the external, because its not really off. Just verifying that you actually started with an HR24 that was unplugged, not just turned off.


----------



## Candyt

I have an HR 22-100 and would like to put a 2tb drive external on it. I have read a lot of this thread and know most of the issues, but did not find the recomended setup for this. Can someone point me in the right direction? I did this a long time ago on my older dvr and the info in this thread was perfect, just can't find this one.


----------



## Rich

Candyt said:


> I have an HR 22-100 and would like to put a 2tb drive external on it. I have read a lot of this thread and know most of the issues, but did not find the recomended setup for this. Can someone point me in the right direction? I did this a long time ago on my older dvr and the info in this thread was perfect, just can't find this one.


We recommend the WD EVDS or the EURS 2TB HDDs and either the Antec MX-1 enclosure or the Thermaltake docking stations for all the HRs. You can find them on amazon.com. The docking station is the one I prefer.

Both come with the eSATA to eSATA jumper and both will work well.

Rich


----------



## Candyt

Is this the right drive? WD AV-GP WD20EURS - Hard drive - 2 TB - internal - 3.5" - SATA-300 - buffer: 64 MB 

and is this the right docking station: WD AV-GP WD20EURS - Hard drive - 2 TB - internal - 3.5" - SATA-300 - buffer: 64 MB


----------



## Candyt

Oops! docking station: Thermaltake BlacX eSATA USB Docking Station

http://www.amazon.com/Thermaltake-B...HAFS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1297864071&sr=8-1


----------



## Rich

Candyt said:


> Oops! docking station: Thermaltake BlacX eSATA USB Docking Station
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Thermaltake-B...HAFS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1297864071&sr=8-1


That's it. No tools needed for installation.

Rich


----------



## Candyt

Is the drive in the message above it the correct one?


----------



## Rich

Candyt said:


> Is this the right drive? WD AV-GP WD20EURS - Hard drive - 2 TB - internal - 3.5" - SATA-300 - buffer: 64 MB
> 
> and is this the right docking station: WD AV-GP WD20EURS - Hard drive - 2 TB - internal - 3.5" - SATA-300 - buffer: 64 MB


That's the correct HDD. Just a quick disclaimer: Not many of us have tried the EURS. The folks that have, have reported that they work well. I do know from my own experience that the EVDS HDDs do work with every HR.

Rich


----------



## Candyt

Thanks so much for your help. I ordered the EVDS because it is on amazon prime and the other is from a different company. I am a prime member so I get 2 day free shipping. Do I need a cable or does it come with the dock?


----------



## Rich

Candyt said:


> Thanks so much for your help. I ordered the EVDS because it is on amazon prime and the other is from a different company. I am a prime member so I get 2 day free shipping. Do I need a cable or does it come with the dock?


You're welcome. The eSATA to eSATA cable does come with the dock. When you put the EVDS HDD in the dock the label should be readable. With a Seagate in the dock the label is upside down.

I have the Prime shipping membership too. What a great deal for just a few bucks a year! I do most of my shopping for electronics on Amazon and Prime is a real money saver. You won't be disappointed with your choices. But let us know how you make out, please.

Rich


----------



## Candyt

Thanks for your help. I live in a small town and do most of my buying from amazon. Prime is great and their customer service is unmatched anywhere. It is actually easier to return something to amazon than to wal-mart


----------



## Rich

Candyt said:


> Thanks for your help. I live in a small town and do most of my buying from amazon. Prime is great and their customer service is unmatched anywhere. It is actually easier to return something to amazon than to wal-mart


Yup, I've found that to be true. I do go to brick and mortar stores to actually lay my hands on what I want to buy and make sure it's what I want and then go home and order it. I want a larger electric grill than the one we have and I think one of the George Foreman grills will fit the bill, but I have to go and see them before I order one. Too many variable options on Amazon to get a really clear picture.

Rich


----------



## Bazza

rich584 said:


> From the posts I've read, yes, the EARS will now work.


LONG time lurker here (many years!).

I can verify that this works great. I have had the 2TB WD20EARS in a Thermaltake dock running for over week now with no issues in my HR21-700 (0x457). Quite the bargain. Got the pair for $113 from Newegg. No tax & free shipping!

I did have a minor issue initially. It took several re-boots before it finally recognized and formatted the drive. I was about to give up, when on reboot #6 it suddenly worked.


----------



## Rich

Candyt said:


> Thanks for your help. I live in a small town and do most of my buying from amazon. Prime is great and their customer service is unmatched anywhere. It is actually easier to return something to amazon than to wal-mart


So, after posting that I agreed with you about how much easier it is to return something to Amazon as opposed to Wal-Mart, the other day I found a 144 square inch George Foreman in our local Wal-Mart at the same price as listed on Amazon. And I bought it at Wal-Mart. Couldn't conceive of a reason for returning it to Amazon. Felt like a hypocrite. Boy, is that a nice grill! Thinking about never buying another gas barbecue grill, never liked them.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Bazza said:


> LONG time lurker here (many years!).
> 
> I can verify that this works great. I have had the 2TB WD20EARS in a Thermaltake dock running for over week now with no issues in my HR21-700 (0x457). Quite the bargain. Got the pair for $113 from Newegg. No tax & free shipping!
> 
> I did have a minor issue initially. It took several re-boots before it finally recognized and formatted the drive. I was about to give up, when on reboot #6 it suddenly worked.


Taking that long for it to boot up would have scared me. I would have returned it. I know they are cheap, but if you had a problem like that...

What procedure did you use to start the HR and external device originally? Please go into complete detail. Thanx.

Rich


----------



## Bazza

rich584 said:


> Taking that long for it to boot up would have scared me. I would have returned it. I know they are cheap, but if you had a problem like that...
> 
> What procedure did you use to start the HR and external device originally? Please go into complete detail. Thanx.
> 
> Rich


Yeah, I'm not sure if it was me or not. I powered up the drive in the dock, waited for the activity to stop, then powered up the receiver. It would just boot normally to the internal drive. I went into the diags a couple times and it would just say "no drive" on the external. Perhaps I wasn't giving it enough time or was somehow canceling the detection process with my impatient clicking.

On the last re-boot try I just powered up the receiver and was distracted by my son, when my wife yelled from the other room "It says formatting!" so it could have been I was doing it wrong all along.

Still working fine and I have rebooted since just to make sure.


----------



## Rich

Bazza said:


> Yeah, I'm not sure if it was me or not. I powered up the drive in the dock, waited for the activity to stop, then powered up the receiver.


That's the correct way to do it. I usually hold a finger on my HDDs in my docking stations and can feel when it has spun up. Then I plug in the HR. If you did that, it should have worked.



> It would just boot normally to the internal drive. I went into the diags a couple times and it would just say "no drive" on the external. Perhaps I wasn't giving it enough time or was somehow canceling the detection process with my impatient clicking.
> 
> On the last re-boot try I just powered up the receiver and was distracted by my son, when my wife yelled from the other room "It says formatting!" so it could have been I was doing it wrong all along.


I had things like that happen when I started using externals too. Usually caused my lack of patience.



> Still working fine and I have rebooted since just to make sure.


If it takes the next NR without a problem, I'd trust it. Still wouldn't buy one tho.......:lol:

Rich


----------



## Bazza

rich584 said:


> That's the correct way to do it. I usually hold a finger on my HDDs in my docking stations and can feel when it has spun up. Then I plug in the HR. If you did that, it should have worked.
> 
> I had things like that happen when I started using externals too. Usually caused my lack of patience.
> 
> If it takes the next NR without a problem, I'd trust it. Still wouldn't buy one tho.......:lol:
> 
> Rich


I hear ya. I have always been a bleeding edge kind of guy. Sometimes you get burned! We will see. If it stops working in the future, I will turn it into a back up for my business and grab the EADS.

I am on the new software BTW.


----------



## Rich

Bazza said:


> I hear ya. I have always been a bleeding edge kind of guy. Sometimes you get burned! We will see. If it stops working in the future, I will turn it into a back up for my business and grab the EADS.
> 
> I am on the new software BTW.


Get the EVDS, it's easier to install.

Rich


----------



## rsblaski

Bazza said:


> If it stops working in the future, I will turn it into a back up for my business and grab the EADS.
> 
> I am on the new software BTW.


But with that "plan", you will lose anything recorded on that hard drive. And being 2T in size, that could be quite a lot of programming.
If you have any doubt of the drive's longevity, you might be better off going with the EVDS drive now.


----------



## Bazza

rsblaski said:


> But with that "plan", you will lose anything recorded on that hard drive. And being 2T in size, that could be quite a lot of programming.
> If you have any doubt of the drive's longevity, you might be better off going with the EVDS drive now.


I believe it will be just fine now that they support enhanced drives with the new software. Consider me the guinea pig. Hey somebody has to volunteer.


----------



## Rich

Bazza said:


> I believe it will be just fine now that they support enhanced drives with the new software. Consider me the guinea pig. Hey somebody has to volunteer.


Just glad it's not me...

Rich


----------



## edpowers

I have a 1.5 TB drive in an Antex MX-1 external enclosure hooked up to a HR20-700. Whenever I had less than 30% free, I'd experience significant sluggishness in all operations. Obviously this is a well know issue. I've been slacking on deleting shows lately, and just noticed that I'm all the way down to 23% free with no slow downs at all. I have not reset this box in at least a month. Did something change in the software to better handle high capacity external drives?


----------



## Rich

edpowers said:


> I have a 1.5 TB drive in an Antex MX-1 external enclosure hooked up to a HR20-700. Whenever I had less than 30% free, I'd experience significant sluggishness in all operations. Obviously this is a well know issue. I've been slacking on deleting shows lately, and just noticed that I'm all the way down to 23% free with no slow downs at all. I have not reset this box in at least a month. Did something change in the software to better handle high capacity external drives?


Since D* doesn't support the eSATA function, I kinda doubt that. Several posters have said that they don't experience that slowdown on the MX-1s. I don't think I've ever had that problem with an MX-1 either, but every other external device has slowed down my HRs when reaching about 70% full. Don't know about the docking stations, never filled an HDD in one of them to that extent.

Rich


----------



## edpowers

rich584 said:


> Since D* doesn't support the eSATA function, I kinda doubt that. Several posters have said that they don't experience that slowdown on the MX-1s. I don't think I've ever had that problem with an MX-1 either, but every other external device has slowed down my HRs when reaching about 70% full. Don't know about the docking stations, never filled an HDD in one of them to that extent.
> 
> Rich


Interesting, I have always had significant slow down issues with my MX-1 when I pass 70% until now. I guess I'll just thank my lucky stars and hope it stays this way.


----------



## Rich

edpowers said:


> Interesting, I have always had significant slow down issues with my MX-1 when I pass 70% until now. I guess I'll just thank my lucky stars and hope it stays this way.


It is normal (if anything about this stuff is "normal") for the slowdown. I just don't remember any MX-1s doing that. All the other external devices I have had have done that. Not counting the TT docking stations. Since I've been using them, I haven't filled up an HDD enough to see if that happens.

Rich


----------



## shendley

I was just fortunate enough to get a good deal on an HR 24 from Directv. They gave me a $100 credit toward purchasing one myself for $199. But I'm currently using an external hard drive on a very old HR 20. I've got a Western Digital 1 TB AV-GP SATA OEM AV Hard Drive WD10EVDS in an Antec MX-1 USB/e-SATA 3.5-Inch Hard Drive Enclosure. Will this external hard drive combination work with my new HR 24?


----------



## Rich

shendley said:


> I was just fortunate enough to get a good deal on an HR 24 from Directv. They gave me a $100 credit toward purchasing one myself for $199. But I'm currently using an external hard drive on a very old HR 20. I've got a Western Digital 1 TB AV-GP SATA OEM AV Hard Drive WD10EVDS in an Antec MX-1 USB/e-SATA 3.5-Inch Hard Drive Enclosure. Will this external hard drive combination work with my new HR 24?


Yup. It should work just fine.

Rich


----------



## shendley

Thanks, Rich! Looking forward to putting this 24 through its paces!


----------



## Rich

shendley said:


> Thanks, Rich! Looking forward to putting this 24 through its paces!


You're welcome. I've been using my two 24-500s to access MRV in my viewing rooms and the only thing is see on the negative side is their inability to deal promptly with my monstrous UPL. But all my HRs have the same problem. I'm sure when MRV was being designed and tested nobody considered that anyone would be wacky enough to stick twelve HRs on the MRV, so I can only blame myself for my issues with the UPL.

I did have an odd noise problem for a few months, but that's gone now and they both run silently. Still have no idea what caused the problem, but they each made the same noises whether I used an internal HDD or an external HDD. Odd, clunking noise, nothing like the seeking noise I'm still getting from a couple of my leased 20-700s. Naturally, I think I was the only one to report that clunking noise.....:nono2:

Rich


----------



## IjustWannaPlay

IjustWannaPlay said:


> Just wanted to pass along that I just hooked up a Thermaltake docking station with the lasted Samsung Spinpoint F4 2TB 5400 RPM drive to an HR24. So far everything seems to be working fine.
> 
> Note that the Samsung F4 is the new "advanced format" drive with 4k sectors that was not supported until the latest DTV 0x0452 release.


Well, the Samsung F4 "worked", but I got tired of the hard drive clicking noise. I just installed an EVDS and it will be interesting the hear the difference.


----------



## Rich

IjustWannaPlay said:


> Well, the Samsung F4 "worked", but I got tired of the hard drive clicking noise. I just installed an EVDS and it will be interesting the hear the difference.


You _should_ see a marked difference.

Rich


----------



## usnret

I understand the sequence of starting up an external drive/DVR, but what is the sequence of stopping the external and reverting to the internal HD. Am asking because I would like to install and external on my 24-500 but also want to watch what is recorded on the internal HD, whilst recording new programs on the external (wife has been in Australia for the past month and have about 30 recorded programs to watch). It's going to be a catch-up old programs will recording new ones type of deal. Tks


----------



## Rich

usnret said:


> I understand the sequence of starting up an external drive/DVR, but what is the sequence of stopping the external and reverting to the internal HD. Am asking because I would like to install and external on my 24-500 but also want to watch what is recorded on the internal HD, whilst recording new programs on the external (wife has been in Australia for the past month and have about 30 recorded programs to watch). It's going to be a catch-up old programs will recording new ones type of deal. Tks


Just unplug the external device and unplug the HR and reboot the HR without the external device plugged in. You can leave the eSATA to eSATA jumper cable in place.

Rich


----------



## rsblaski

usnret said:


> but also want to watch what is recorded on the internal HD, whilst recording new programs on the external Tks


Just to clarify. If you actually meant you want to watch on the internal AND record on the external at the same time, that is impossible. 
You will have to juggle your watching and recording sessions so they will not overlap. If you are watching old material on the internal and a recording starts, it will add to the material on the internal.
I recently went through a similar situation when I added an external drive to one of my dvrs. Fortunately, I have three dvrs in the house, so i temporarily switched the scheduled recordings on that dvr to the other two dvrs while I watched the recordings on the internal drive.


----------



## Rich

rsblaski said:


> Just to clarify. If you actually meant you want to watch on the internal AND record on the external at the same time, that is impossible.
> You will have to juggle your watching and recording sessions so they will not overlap. If you are watching old material on the internal and a recording starts, it will add to the material on the internal.
> I recently went through a similar situation when I added an external drive to one of my dvrs. Fortunately, I have three dvrs in the house, so i temporarily switched the scheduled recordings on that dvr to the other two dvrs while I watched the recordings on the internal drive.


It is a PITA to do what he's proposing, but, with patience, I guess it can be done. I've never had to do it, I never use the internals unless I put a big one in one of my owned HRs.

Rich


----------



## usnret

I understand that I won't be able to watch an internally recorded program while the external is hooked up. Was planning on watching the recorded (internal) programs during the day then hooking up the external for evening recording. Might just do what rsblaski did and hook the external up to my 22-200 till I get the 24 cleaned out. My main worry was how to unhook the external and not screwing things up by doing it wrong. Tks


----------



## Rich

usnret said:


> I understand that I won't be able to watch an internally recorded program while the external is hooked up. Was planning on watching the recorded (internal) programs during the day then hooking up the external for evening recording. Might just do what rsblaski did and hook the external up to my 22-200 till I get the 24 cleaned out. My main worry was how to unhook the external and not screwing things up by doing it wrong. Tks


I wouldn't hook the external up to another HR while you're waiting to clean out the internal. You're just gonna get yourself into a loop of cleaning out content. Just do as you originally planned and you'll be fine.

Rich


----------



## rsblaski

rich584 said:


> I wouldn't hook the external up to another HR while you're waiting to clean out the internal. You're just gonna get yourself into a loop of cleaning out content. Just do as you originally planned and you'll be fine.
> 
> Rich


Exactly. If you connect the external to your HR22, those recordings will only be available on that dvr.
If you have enough space on your HR22, just use its internal drive for recording while you clean out the internal drive on your HR24. I was lucky in that I have two other dvrs that I shifted recordings to while I cleaned out the internal on my third one, so I didn't run into any three program conflicts.


----------



## Rich

rsblaski said:


> Exactly. If you connect the external to your HR22, those recordings will only be available on that dvr.
> If you have enough space on your HR22, just use its internal drive for recording while you clean out the internal drive on your HR24. I was lucky in that I have two other dvrs that I shifted recordings to while I cleaned out the internal on my third one, so I didn't run into any three program conflicts.


There should be a thread for prospective subscribers or new subs that explains the many options and reasons for owning multiple HRs. This thread is a perfect example. If you are a first time sub, you'll end up using more than one HR and the advantages of having three or more are...well, too many for me to list.

Having multiple (at least three) HRs with large HDDs immediately installed either internally or externally would have solved the TS's problem. In fact there would be no need for this thread. A large HDD is a great advantage. Might as well do it right off the bat. Multiple HRs make troubleshooting much easier. Multiple HRs give you multiple tuners which makes recording content much easier. I could go on and on, but simply put, stick a large HDD on your new HR quickly, get more than one HR right off the bat and you'll begin to appreciate what I'm talking about.

Rich


----------



## rsblaski

rich584 said:


> [snip] If you are a first time sub, you'll end up using more than one HR and the advantages of having three or more are...well, too many for me to list.
> 
> I could go on and on, but simply put, stick a large HDD on your new HR quickly, get more than one HR right off the bat and you'll begin to appreciate what I'm talking about.
> 
> Rich


Hence my signature...


----------



## Rich

rsblaski said:


> Hence my signature...


Got that.

Rich


----------



## oldbamaguy

Rich,
I have experienced the "terrible grumpling" of an external drive on my HR22-100 with an MX1 and a WD20EVDS. It seems to go on for a week or more. I have considered replacing it, but every time I am about to replace it, the sound goes away. Haven't heard it for a month or more now. Strange to report that I had previously replaced the MX-1/WD20EADS on the SAME Machine for the same reason. I have a "bank" of four sitting side by side. No problems or sounds with the other three machines. The problem is with the third time related purchase.
The sound was as if it was "formatting" though no recordings were lost.
Just thought I would mention it.
Best Wishes Always!!
ed


----------



## Rich

oldbamaguy said:


> Rich,
> I have experienced the "terrible grumpling" of an external drive on my HR22-100 with an MX1 and a WD20EVDS. It seems to go on for a week or more. I have considered replacing it, but every time I am about to replace it, the sound goes away. Haven't heard it for a month or more now. Strange to report that I had previously replaced the MX-1/WD20EADS on the SAME Machine for the same reason. I have a "bank" of four sitting side by side. No problems or sounds with the other three machines. The problem is with the third time related purchase.
> The sound was as if it was "formatting" though no recordings were lost.
> Just thought I would mention it.
> Best Wishes Always!!
> ed


In my case, the only time I've ever heard that sound is on a 24 with an EVDS HDD. Heard it on two 24-500s and a 24-200. I've never heard that particular sound on any of my other HRs with EVDS HDDs. The sound has been gone for a while and I still have absolutely no idea what caused it, but I'm sure the EVDS drives were not at fault. Something in an NR must have caused the 24s to start grumbling. It's not that terrible "seeking" sound, it's more substantial than that. I could actually see the Thermaltake docking station moving slightly with each grumble. Switched TTs and the same thing happened. Wasn't the docking station. Had one EVDS in a 24-500 and it grumbled the same way. But it's stopped and all is well.

Rich


----------



## powpowmeow

Hi guys, great threead. I just got the hr24 a month ago and already need to expand my storage. After realizing the "recommended" esata drives were out of production, i called directv and got nowhere. Then I found this thread...


Im comibing a WD WD20EURS 2tb with the antec mx-1. it was only a 14-15 dollar price difference where i bought the items, im familiar with the antec brand, and it looks like a slightly nicer enclosure and slightly quieter as well. i am pretty well versed in pc hardware installation etc so im not worried about that.

i do have a couple somewhat more general questions, but hard drive related.


1. i am under the impression that once i put the new hd and the antec enclosure together, i amnot supposed to plug it into a computer under any circumstances, is that correct? the first use of the hard drive has to be plugged into the hr24, is that right?

2. after i have used my new esata drive with the hr24, i cannot plug it inot a computer, (at least not without losing all my saved shows/videos) is that right?


normally when i get a new drive i run some diagnostics tests, make sure the drive is stable, stuff like that. of course this would require me to plug it into my pc.

i believe i had another question but i cant think of it now. maybe later i will.

thanks a lot !


----------



## harsh

You can connect and check it. Just don't partition or format it.

The chances that diagnostic software is going to identify or fix problems with a new drive is vanishingly small.


----------



## Rich

powpowmeow said:


> Hi guys, great threead. I just got the hr24 a month ago and already need to expand my storage. After realizing the "recommended" esata drives were out of production, i called directv and got nowhere. Then I found this thread...
> 
> Im comibing a WD WD20EURS 2tb with the antec mx-1. it was only a 14-15 dollar price difference where i bought the items, im familiar with the antec brand, and it looks like a slightly nicer enclosure and slightly quieter as well. i am pretty well versed in pc hardware installation etc so im not worried about that.
> 
> i do have a couple somewhat more general questions, but hard drive related.
> 
> 1. i am under the impression that once i put the new hd and the antec enclosure together, i amnot supposed to plug it into a computer under any circumstances, is that correct? the first use of the hard drive has to be plugged into the hr24, is that right?
> 
> 2. after i have used my new esata drive with the hr24, i cannot plug it inot a computer, (at least not without losing all my saved shows/videos) is that right?
> 
> normally when i get a new drive i run some diagnostics tests, make sure the drive is stable, stuff like that. of course this would require me to plug it into my pc.
> 
> i believe i had another question but i cant think of it now. maybe later i will.
> 
> thanks a lot !


I've been putting external drives on my HRs for quite a while and have never seen the need to hook one up to a computer. The HR will format the EURS drive and you'll be good to go. In case you're not familiar with the initial setup, just unplug the HR, plug in the eSATA to eSATA jumper to the HR and the MX-1 and then plug in the MX-1. Give it time to spin up (about 30 seconds to a minute) and then plug in the HR and the HR will do all the work and you should be good to go. Glad to see you had the good sense to get the 2TB drive.

Rich


----------



## powpowmeow

Thanks Rich! You da man


----------



## powpowmeow

So it sounds like it's ok to plug the external drive into another machine, like a pc, AFTER the hr24 has formatted the drive and saved shows to it etc
Is that right?

I read a couple posts in this thread that made it sound like the drives slow down performance wise once they start getting full. This true?

If so, seems like plugging the drive into a pc and using a defrag app like perfectdisk 10 could greatly improve the drive performance. This app is a hard disk defrag utility. It has multiple types of defrag, but t does a defrag where it puts all the data sectors on one part of the disc, and all the empty space is consolidated. that seems like it would be the best option for a dvr hard drive.


----------



## Rich

powpowmeow said:


> So it sounds like it's ok to plug the external drive into another machine, like a pc, AFTER the hr24 has formatted the drive and saved shows to it etc
> Is that right?
> 
> I read a couple posts in this thread that made it sound like the drives slow down performance wise once they start getting full. This true?
> 
> If so, seems like plugging the drive into a pc and using a defrag app like perfectdisk 10 could greatly improve the drive performance. This app is a hard disk defrag utility. It has multiple types of defrag, but t does a defrag where it puts all the data sectors on one part of the disc, and all the empty space is consolidated. that seems like it would be the best option for a dvr hard drive.


I dunno. I haven't had an HDD problem in a long time. For quite a while HDDs were rarely mentioned on the forum as a problem. All of a sudden it became fashionable to blame them for any issues. They don't seem to need any help, at least in my case, they just keep running and running like that little bunny.

Rich


----------



## powpowmeow

rich584 said:


> I dunno. I haven't had an HDD problem in a long time. For quite a while HDDs were rarely mentioned on the forum as a problem. All of a sudden it became fashionable to blame them for any issues. They don't seem to need any help, at least in my case, they just keep running and running like that little bunny.
> 
> Rich


Cool. I was thinking a way to test out if a pc can defrag an external used by the hr series:

-plug in the esata to the hr right out of the box
-let it format or do it's thing, whatever it does
-test record a show
- shut down the hr, plug the esata into the pc, run perfectdisk
-plug it back into the hr

now if the drive has been changed somehow by the pc, in terms of file system/compatibility with the HR, will the HR just automatically reformat the hard drive to make it compatible? or is their the potential i have made my new external drive permanently incompatible with the HR?

thanks!


----------



## Rich

powpowmeow said:


> Cool. I was thinking a way to test out if a pc can defrag an external used by the hr series:
> 
> -plug in the esata to the hr right out of the box
> -let it format or do it's thing, whatever it does
> -test record a show
> - shut down the hr, plug the esata into the pc, run perfectdisk
> -plug it back into the hr
> 
> now if the drive has been changed somehow by the pc, in terms of file system/compatibility with the HR, will the HR just automatically reformat the hard drive to make it compatible? or is their the potential i have made my new external drive permanently incompatible with the HR?
> 
> thanks!


What did Grandma say when she shooed everyone out of the kitchen? Too many...

Leave it alone, you'll be fine.

Rich


----------



## srfrdan

i agree. let it fly on its own. i plugged in my 1.5tb esata into my hr20-700 10/6/09 and have not had one problem. except for power failures and new programming its not rebooted once. it holds 200+ hd shows i counted so that takes up to 20 secs to find a show sometimes but usually only secs.


----------



## harsh

powpowmeow said:


> - shut down the hr, plug the esata into the pc, run perfectdisk


Understand that PerfectDisk (and most other Windows-based software) will ignore a *nix formatted drive such as the eSATA from an HR2x. There are dedicated programs to access files, but I don't think there's anything that works below the directory and file level.


----------



## heartspeace

When using an external drive on HR22 (perhaps applicable to other models - but I'm interested in HR22 (because its my model  ).

1) Does the RPM of the drive make a different - even a little? (I really don't care about the green part of it - I want the best performance I can get).

2) With that being said, regardless of RPM: is 2TB drive acceptable? 3TB drive? (or are they too large for the HR22 DVR)?

I am concerned with lowering heat in the room (too much electronic heat already - in winter I keep the window open in 32 degree weather and its warm-to coolish depending on the wind) - but I'm not concerned enough to choose a lower RPM if 7200RPM has better performance.

Yet I would like to spin down the drive when not in use (reduce noise, increase lifespan, reduce heat). Green drives never truly seem to spin down - but spin slower (from my understanding):

3) So is there an enclosure that is available at a decent cost at Newegg/Amazon or some other trusted e-retailer that will spin down the drive after no activity - or will the HR-22 do this for me considering its replacing the internal drive and its on e-sata?

Depending on the answers to the questions above, I will need to make good choice on hard drive/enclosure. I am hoping that perhaps there is an enclosure that will spin down the drive or that the HR-22 will do that for me via e-sata - then I can forget about the debate of RPM and just go w/ a viable drive like Hitachi (hasnt failed me yet) at 2TB 7200RPM. I am willing to go to a less expensive combination of an entire external unit that already has enclosure/harddrive with 2+TB and 7200RPM if its compatible w/ e-sata and the HR-22. I know that WD mybook and Seagate FreeAgent both have spin down built into their units (or at least some have)... but need to be 100% sure before I buy such a unit.

I have in hand a 7200 RPM drive with an enclosure which is e-sata compatible (Hitachi Deskstar 2TB 7200 64MB cache and a Rosewell external case). If the HR-22 supports spindown via any e-sata drive connected to it - Im set and I dont have to spend any more money. If it doesn't spin down then I would:


rather get a case that does and use it if its not that much more expensive.
Buy an external unit with HD and spindown (if hr-22 doesnt support it and no external case available that supports it)
Live with the heat/noise/lower lifespan/etc of a drive running constantly for my DVR along with the one that is running already in the DRV (I heard it doesn't spin down in one place - but I dont think thats true).

I know this is a wall of text - but I couldn't find answers anywhere else (I spent about an hour looking) - so if you guys and gals can help out - I would greatly appreciate it. If someone answers part of it and you can answer the other parts - that works too. I really do need your help here in answering these questions and not just being pointed to a piece of hardware without knowing the answers to them.


----------



## heartspeace

rich584 said:


> What did Grandma say when she shooed everyone out of the kitchen? Too many...
> 
> Leave it alone, you'll be fine.
> 
> Rich


I have heard the hr-22 defragging the internal unit - wouldn't it also defrag the external unit?

If not - can't the internal unit just be replaced (I know you void the warranty) w/ a larger unit (what is the max size?) I suspect strongly it can easily be done as there are services doing it for up to 2TB drives... but for money that seems too high to pay for something you should be easily able to do yourself - yet I have searched a lot and perhaps I'm just missing it but I have not see a 'guide' on how to replace the drive you have inside the unit. What is a little crazy - is that those services also say they can preserve your movies... so they must have special equipment?


----------



## CCarncross

Drive will never spin down in a DVR....the best recommendation is buy a WD 2TB model in the EADS, EVDS, or EURS lines, and either use the Antec MX-1 enclosure or the Thermaltake BlacX that if you read more of this thread will be highly recommended solutions. Drives larger than 2TB are not useable, the OS on the device will only recognize up to 2TB drives currently.

And the thread you are looking for about drive replacement is here:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=167440


----------



## rsblaski

CCarncross said:


> Drive will never spin down in a DVR....the best recommendation is buy a WD 2TB model in the EADS, EVDS, or EURS lines, and either use the Antec MX-1 enclosure or the Thermaltake BlackX that if you read more of this thread will be highly recommended solutions. Drives larger than 2TB are not useable, the OS on the device will only recognize up to 2TB drives currently.
> 
> And the thread you are looking for about drive replacement is here:
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=167440


Just a minor nit for search purposes: the Thermaltake model is "BlacX" (no "k").


----------



## powpowmeow

had the external for about 24 hrs now - all systems go
it seemed like it took FIVE MINUTES for the entire setup process once i plugged the hr24 back in and powered it up. which was very pleasantly surprising

no issue with recording multiple shows at once, nor issues with playback, or menus, or anything else

I bought the antec mx-1 for the enclosure because i am familiar with their products and they excel in the area of quiet cooling
The hard drive I went with is the WD20EURS because it has a 64 mb cache and it is 2 tbs

all together i paid about $160 shipped from a big name online retailer and had both items on the 3rd business day

Im curious what a 2 tb drive breaks down to in terms of hi def video storage? how many hours?

thanks everyone for the help; wish i would have found this forum sooner.


----------



## hasan

powpowmeow said:


> Im curious what a 2 tb drive breaks down to in terms of hi def video storage? how many hours?
> 
> thanks everyone for the help; wish i would have found this forum sooner.


Between 400 and 500 hours, depending on the source material's compressibility. I've consistently measured 430-450, and have gotten 470 on one occasion.


----------



## heartspeace

CCarncross said:


> Drive will never spin down in a DVR....the best recommendation is buy a WD 2TB model in the EADS, EVDS, or EURS lines, and either use the Antec MX-1 enclosure or the Thermaltake BlackX that if you read more of this thread will be highly recommended solutions. Drives larger than 2TB are not useable, the OS on the device will only recognize up to 2TB drives currently.
> 
> And the thread you are looking for about drive replacement is here:
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=167440


Thank you. Per your direction/help I ordered and am now using successfully a 
Western Digital 2 TB AV-GP SATA Intellipower 32 MB Cache Bulk/OEM AV Hard Drive WD20EVDS 
w/ my existing Rosewill RX-358-S BLK (Black) 3.5" SATA to USB & eSATA Ext. Enclosure w/Int.80mm fan (on sale now (03-11-11 to 03-13-11 ends at 12am PST 03-14-11) at newegg (in silver) for $28... using coupon:

Rosewill RX-358-S SLV (Silver) 3.5" SATA to USB & eSATA External Enclosure
$49.99
Your Price: $27.99
With Promo Code
EMCKGJJ32

(They (newegg) are having a 72 hour sale)

Turned off system, installed HD into enclosure, plugged it into system sata port, plugged it into enclosure sata port, plugged in enclosure, turned on enclosure and turned on system. When through all of its getting programming etc. and now I have 2TB to work with.

TY


----------



## jayman9207

If you lose a receiver can you plug your external drive into the new replacement receiver and you don't lose any of your shows?

Reason I ask is because I just lost my HR24-100 in my living room last night and lost a ton of shows along with it.  The HD died after only 7+ months and now I am worried about losing shows again.


----------



## Rich

jayman9207 said:


> If you lose a receiver can you plug your external drive into the new replacement receiver and you don't lose any of your shows?
> 
> Reason I ask is because I just lost my HR24-100 in my living room last night and lost a ton of shows along with it.  The HD died after only 7+ months and now I am worried about losing shows again.


No, you lose the "marriage" of the HR and the external HDD and all shows are unwatchable.

Rich


----------



## jayman9207

Thanks. That sucks!  So the only way to really not have this happen again is to double up on HD DVR's then and record everything on two seperate DVR's?


----------



## Rich

jayman9207 said:


> Thanks. That sucks!  So the only way to really not have this happen again is to double up on HD DVR's then and record everything on two seperate DVR's?


That's why I have twelve HRs.

Rich


----------



## harsh

jayman9207 said:


> Thanks. That sucks!  So the only way to really not have this happen again is to double up on HD DVR's then and record everything on two seperate DVR's?


Long term, even that approach isn't going to end well as nothing lasts forever.

The hope is that some day, the programming will be tied, not to the receiver, but to the account. In that way, only those involved in nasty breakups or with insurmountable credit problems will suffer.

DISH Network implemented such a scheme some time ago so it isn't unprecedented.


----------



## CCarncross

jayman9207 said:


> If you lose a receiver can you plug your external drive into the new replacement receiver and you don't lose any of your shows?
> 
> Reason I ask is because I just lost my HR24-100 in my living room last night and lost a ton of shows along with it.  The HD died after only 7+ months and now I am worried about losing shows again.


The thing about this is 9 times out of 10, what fails is the HDD. I want to be able to move my content to replacement dvrs as well, but I havent lost a dvr yet, just HDD's.


----------



## CT_Wiebe

I had my first external HDD failure. Most of my (used & full) drives are the WD-10EACS drives. However, my last purchase was for 3 WD-20EVDS drives. The first one was just fine (until it got filled up). I replaced that with the second one (connected to my old HR20-700).

That one was working fine until a couple of days ago (around 5% to 10% free space). Then we started getting program lock-ups (with no response from the remote). I tried various options, including several, power-off, reboots. The only thing that worked was to remove the external HDD. Now it's working just fine off the internal HDD (HR20-700).

Conclusion = HDD access issue. I will be replacing the eSATA drive with one of my unused WD-10EACS drives, as a temporary measure (my 3rd WD-20EVDS drive is in use with our new HR23 in the bedroom). I will try to do some drive trouble-shooting (with my Linux OS PC), when I get the time.


----------



## CCarncross

IF you are using an external drive, and it starts getting flaky, all you have to do is use the gparted method and you can copy the failing drive to a spanking new model and all your recordings remain intact as long as the old drive is still readable.


----------



## GregLee

CCarncross said:


> I want to be able to move my content to replacement dvrs as well, but I havent lost a dvr yet, just HDD's.


I just lost my HR20-700 that I got in October of 2007 when I first subscribed to DirecTV. It was using a Antec MX-1 with WD15EADS. Fortunately, the failure was only in contacting the satellite, so there was plenty of chance to watch previously recorded programs, before I changed out the HR20-700 for an HR24-500. The new HR24-500 seems to be working fine with the MX-1/WD15EADS, though of course I had to delete the left-over programs recorded with the old HR20-700.


----------



## CCarncross

Just for a reference point, OTA recordings are NOT married to the DVR they were recorded on. If you take a drive from a failing box and put it on a new one, the OTA recordings will playback fine. The sat recordings will all be there, but not playable.


----------



## powpowmeow

powpowmeow said:


> had the external for about 24 hrs now - all systems go
> it seemed like it took FIVE MINUTES for the entire setup process once i plugged the hr24 back in and powered it up. which was very pleasantly surprising
> 
> *no issue with recording multiple shows at once, nor issues with playback, or menus, or anything else*
> 
> I bought the antec mx-1 for the enclosure because i am familiar with their products and they excel in the area of quiet cooling
> The hard drive I went with is the WD20EURS because it has a 64 mb cache and it is 2 tbs
> 
> all together i paid about $160 shipped from a big name online retailer and had both items on the 3rd business day
> 
> Im curious what a 2 tb drive breaks down to in terms of hi def video storage? how many hours?
> 
> thanks everyone for the help; wish i would have found this forum sooner.


now that the hard drive is about half full, i have noticed pretty significant slowdowns in menu browsing, etc
nothing debilitating, but definitely annoying

just FYI


----------



## powpowmeow

Update: Around 30% space left free, started to notice freeze ups during playback of recorded programs.


----------



## Rich

powpowmeow said:


> Update: Around 30% space left free, started to notice freeze ups during playback of recorded programs.


That's to be expected. You should be rebooting when you see that. The main reason I have so many 2TB drives on so many HRs is that they never get to the 50% mark. So, I never see the issues you're dealing with.

I just read the post where you said that you were seeing slowdowns in menu browsing and things like that, with 50% full. I don't like that. My EVDS 2TBs don't do that, but, as I said, none of them are at 50% full. In the past, I have deliberately loaded a couple of them well past 50% just to see what happened and I didn't notice any slowdowns in the Guide, Playlist, Menus, etc., until I reached the 30% to 20% mark.

It will be interesting to see if other EURS owners experience the same issues.

Rich


----------



## TomCat

hasan said:


> Between 400 and 500 hours, depending on the source material's compressibility. I've consistently measured 430-450, and have gotten 470 on one occasion.


If all of the content is MPEG4 (and it will be if it is HD and recorded from the DTV sats) and none of the recordings are OTA direct (which would be MPEG2) you can probably get 475 hours on a 2 TB. This has seemed to work out pretty closely in my real-world experiences with these HDDs. Of course I have only run them full a couple of times, but the reserve capacity percentages seem to be accurate to that standard as well, within about 1%.


----------



## powpowmeow

rich584 said:


> That's to be expected. You should be rebooting when you see that. The main reason I have so many 2TB drives on so many HRs is that they never get to the 50% mark. So, I never see the issues you're dealing with.
> 
> I just read the post where you said that you were seeing slowdowns in menu browsing and things like that, with 50% full. I don't like that. My EVDS 2TBs don't do that, but, as I said, none of them are at 50% full. In the past, I have deliberately loaded a couple of them well past 50% just to see what happened and I didn't notice any slowdowns in the Guide, Playlist, Menus, etc., until I reached the 30% to 20% mark.
> 
> It will be interesting to see if other EURS owners experience the same issues.
> 
> Rich


so the reboot is just -

power down receiver while not recording of course
unplug receiver
power down drive
wait... how long? im guessing a couple minutes or so
power up drive
plug receiver in

missed the part about rebooting; i hadnt tried that yet.


----------



## CCarncross

When you are trying to reboot the dvr to do drive swaps/copies, you actually need to go into the setup menu and do a _restart receiver_*(For clarification this is not a reset all, or a reset defaults)*. When all the lights go out on the dvr, pull the plug...that is the only way to get a clean drive and eliminate the superblock error...


----------



## Rich

powpowmeow said:


> so the reboot is just -
> 
> power down receiver while not recording of course
> unplug receiver
> power down drive
> wait... how long? im guessing a couple minutes or so
> power up drive
> plug receiver in
> 
> missed the part about rebooting; i hadnt tried that yet.


You should be able to restart it from the System page. That's usually sufficient for that issue.

Rich


----------



## Rich

CCarncross said:


> When you are trying to reboot the dvr to do drive swaps/copies, you actually need to go into the setup menu and do a _restart receiver_*(For clarification this is not a reset all, or a reset defaults)*. When all the lights go out on the dvr, pull the plug...that is the only way to get a clean drive and eliminate the superblock error...


What's a "superblock" error? I've been pulling the plugs on my HRs for years and never seen that. I feel left out.....:lol:

Rich


----------



## CCarncross

rich584 said:


> What's a "superblock" error? I've been pulling the plugs on my HRs for years and never seen that. I feel left out.....:lol:
> 
> Rich


When you go to copy a drive, as laid out in the copy and replace drive threads....if you dont have a clean shutdown of the drive, it gives a superblock error of some sort....this is specifically related to wanting to replace your dvrs drive and retain all the settings and shows on it...e.g. for replacing a drive on a dvr that may have a failing drive...you can move your shows from one drive to the next as long as you dont change the dvr.


----------



## powpowmeow

rich584 said:


> You should be able to restart it from the System page. That's usually sufficient for that issue.
> 
> Rich


got it, thanks - is there a recommended time in terms of how often i should do this?

thanks!


----------



## Rich

CCarncross said:


> When you go to copy a drive, as laid out in the copy and replace drive threads....if you dont have a clean shutdown of the drive, it gives a superblock error of some sort....this is specifically related to wanting to replace your dvrs drive and retain all the settings and shows on it...e.g. for replacing a drive on a dvr that may have a failing drive...you can move your shows from one drive to the next as long as you dont change the dvr.


Gotcha. I have never needed to copy an HDD because of my setup, so I've never had to deal with that. So complicated, this stuff.

Rich


----------



## Rich

powpowmeow said:


> got it, thanks - is there a recommended time in terms of how often i should do this?
> 
> thanks!


Just do it whenever the HR starts to bog down. If that doesn't work, go thru the original rebooting process. I tested a lot of HDDs and a lot of out of the box eSATAs and each one did the same thing, no matter the size of the HDDs.

I'm more concerned about your problems showing up at 50% capacity. I've never seen that before. I can't help but wonder about the EURS and it's compatibility with our HRs. We need more data to determine if there is a problem.

Rich


----------



## CCarncross

powpowmeow said:


> got it, thanks - is there a recommended time in terms of how often i should do this?
> 
> thanks!


I pretty much reboot all my dvrs on Friday or Saturday night every week....as long as it will not interrupt a recording. My HR20 runs very well, and I have had it in service since Oct. 06....some of the other guys may reboot under similar conditions.


----------



## rsblaski

CCarncross said:


> I pretty much reboot all my dvrs on Friday or Saturday night every week....QUOTE]
> 
> Nudge nudge, wink wink, say no more....


----------



## Volman

CCarncross said:


> I pretty much reboot all my dvrs on Friday or Saturday night every week....as long as it will not interrupt a recording. My HR20 runs very well, and I have had it in service since Oct. 06....some of the other guys may reboot under similar conditions.


To clarify: For "maintenance" as you do weekly,which reboot procedure is best?

Also, is there a post anywhere that talks about the various reboot methods(i.e. red-button reset/unplug/reboot from DVR menu,etc,) and when to use one vs another? I'm unsure of which method to use.

Thanks!! Fred


----------



## Rich

Volman said:


> To clarify: For "maintenance" as you do weekly,which reboot procedure is best?
> 
> Also, is there a post anywhere that talks about the various reboot methods(i.e. red-button reset/unplug/reboot from DVR menu,etc,) and when to use one vs another? I'm unsure of which method to use.
> 
> Thanks!! Fred


I'd do the same thing *CCarncross* does, but with twelve HRs and MRV I'd have to reboot them one by one or the MRV gets screwed up. If you read his post about "superblock" in this thread you'll see how he does it. Since I don't care about copying HDDs to save content, I just pull the power plugs on the HR and the external device, if it has one, and then reboot the external and then reboot the HR. But, again, I have to do that one by one and it takes a lot of time.

I reboot them all when I start to see problems with my MRV.

Rich


----------



## CCarncross

Volman said:


> To clarify: For "maintenance" as you do weekly,which reboot procedure is best?
> 
> Also, is there a post anywhere that talks about the various reboot methods(i.e. red-button reset/unplug/reboot from DVR menu,etc,) and when to use one vs another? I'm unsure of which method to use.
> 
> Thanks!! Fred


Always use the menu restart method. *UNLESS:* Device is locked up, or not responding to remote commands. Next least intrusive is a red button reset..

If you are needing to take the unit apart or move it etc...do a menu restart if you can, and pull the power cord when all the lights go out.

If the device is responding there is *never* any good reason to just pull the plug.


----------



## Volman

CCarncross said:


> Always use the menu restart method. *UNLESS:* Device is locked up, or not responding to remote commands. Next least intrusive is a red button reset..
> 
> If you are needing to take the unit apart or move it etc...do a menu restart if you can, and pull the power cord when all the lights go out.
> 
> If the device is responding there is *never* any good reason to just pull the plug.


Excellent summary! Just one question: My HR20-100 has an external SATA and recently became "less" responsive to remote control commands, and started to get slowly worse. But it still functioned normally 75% of the time.

For a situation like this,which method? I guess I am uncertain about the distinction between completely unresponsive, sometimes unresponsive, and just slowing down a bit as when the HDD is getting too full. Do I go through them from least intrusive, one at a time, until the issue is cleared up? (I ended up pulling the plug a few days ago- and it took doing it twice- but it seems OK now).

Thanks again,Fred


----------



## CCarncross

Slow or not, your device is still responding, never just pull the plug....try the nvram flush as well....slow because its getting full is really not curable, clear up some space. But restarting, and clearing nvram are two items I regularly perform. Truthfully, if I think its still too sluggish, I don't keep rebooting....I look for other reasons, like a HDD that may be having issues, or a problem with an external enclosure, etc....if restarting doesnt speed it up, restarting using a different method has never magically fixed anything in my experience, and I've had HR's since Oct. 06.


----------



## millercentral

Question: What is the point of a 2TB drive if you can't let it get past 50% full without service degradation? Do the faster HR24s also suffer with large drives as they get full?


----------



## CCarncross

millercentral said:


> Question: What is the point of a 2TB drive if you can't let it get past 50% full without service degradation? Do the faster HR24s also suffer with large drives as they get full?


I dont have that issue, though there are many who claim they do....Do I think an HR with an empty drive is faster than one with a full drive, yes...think of the amount of indexing it has to keep track of if you have ~450 hours of HD recordings on the thing.....truthfully I'm not sure they were ever designed for that...If you think about the original 300G drive, even full it only held about 50 hours, much smaller database and indexing to deal with....I'm not sure they considered that we would be cramming 2TB drives in these things...


----------



## Rich

CCarncross said:


> I dont have that issue, though there are many who claim they do....Do I think an HR with an empty drive is faster than one with a full drive, yes...think of the amount of indexing it has to keep track of if you have ~450 hours of HD recordings on the thing.....truthfully I'm not sure they were ever designed for that...If you think about the original 300G drive, even full it only held about 50 hours, much smaller database and indexing to deal with....I'm not sure they considered that we would be cramming 2TB drives in these things...


We'll be posting like this forever. 

Every external device that I have tried from 750s to 2TBs has done the same thing. Caused the HR to "bog" down. Doesn't seem to matter what the size of the external HDD is, they bog down between 20% and 30% Available or about three quarters full. _I think this is common to all external HDDs in external devices._ I would go to court to defend that statement (not with you, of course). Problem is, I'm using data from a year to three years ago. I haven't gotten any of my large drives much past 50% this season so I haven't seen the problem manifest itself. It might be fixed for all I know.

I do think the WD EVDS series was actually made with DVRs specifically in mind, no matter which size you buy. So I see nothing wrong with using them.

Peace,

Rich


----------



## TomCat

millercentral said:


> Question: What is the point of a 2TB drive if you can't let it get past 50% full without service degradation?...


I think the point might be to have more space.

Since I have run HR2x drives full a couple or more times, I can provide you with empirical evidence that a full drive does not slow down a HR2x, not noticeably even a little bit (that is, assuming you are willing to take my word for it--kinda rare on this forum). The ONLY disadvantage of running a drive full is that your DVR is then no longer a recorder, it is merely a player (of what is recorded). That is, until you delete something, of course, then its a recorder once again.

It seems what drives folks to want bigger drives is typically not that the DVR is getting slower, but that the DVR is quickly becoming a player, rather than a recorder. A bigger drive only solves that last problem, because a full drive is the only problem that creates.

Those who have reported that the DVR slowed down when the drive was full may indeed be telling the truth: the DVR just might have slowed down, coincidentally and for a completely different reason, when the drive was, coincidentally, full or near full. But unless you are prone to wildly jumping to unfounded conclusions that does not mean there is any correlation between the two other than both things happened around the same time, and as I have proved numerous times, there isn't a correlation, or my DVRs would have slowed down as well, which they did not.

There is also an urban legend that full drives are slower, and it actually has some basis in fact, in that drives on Windows or Mac with normal PC-type formatting such as NTFS, FAT, or HFS+, suffer from file fragmentation which increases exponentially as the drive gets closer to full. It is not uncommon for a *single file* to have 3000 fragments or more once a drive gets over 90% full. And it is likely not so much the drive format system as much as it is how the OS is designed to use the drives in this common user scenario.

The sluggishness comes from the logistical task of the actuator having to make the trip to all of those different physical locations on the drive in order, and the danger is losing data in the extents tree catalog that keeps track of all of these fragments: your chances of losing track of the catalog B-tree pointers to a contiguous file are very small, but for a file of 3000 fragments, that chance is multiplied by 3000.

But all of that is for file storage on conventional PCs, where files can be any size, and fragmentation is a fact of life. Servers that are designed for streaming media do not fragment hardly at all, certainly not enough to cause noticeable slowdowns, so they do not have this problem. And what minimal fragmentation there is does not grow over time as it does on a PC or Mac. So not only is there empirical evidence, _there is an explanation as to why_ full drives do not slow down DVR performance. For those still interested, here it is:

Copy or create a file on a PC and it looks at the file, gauges its size, and allocates a proper amount of existing free space to place it in, whether fragments will be needed or not. Files are of any size, which makes the potential for fragmentation even worse. Over time, more and more smaller free-space fragments are created due to this, and new files are fragmented even more to use this space.

DVRs use a much different system that does not have these types of problems. When a streaming file is recorded by a media server (including a consumer DVR), there is no way for the system to allocate the space ahead of time, because there is no way to know how large the file is until the recording is over. So instead, a technique known as "chunking" is used, which pre-allocates identical-sized chunks of memory (typically 128 to 512 MB) on the fly as needed. The file is written to the drive in these bite-sized chunks, which are all of the same size. And whenever possible, they are written contiguously.

Since the chunks are all of the same size, once erased the system is not left with odd-sized chunks of memory that new files can't fit into, and so there is orders of magnitude less fragmentation, and it does not really grow the way that it can on a PC drive. This means that a file may not be completely contiguous, but the number of fragments will be very low, and the free space will not be very fragmented either, because as soon as you erase a file that space is prime real estate for new chunks which fit these spaces perfectly.

Those are the sort of odd and otherwise unusable facts one stumbles on in a career that concentrates for decades on wrangling broadcast media servers for a living. Useful for those who do, but probably only a point of interest for those that don't. But then it still explains why a full drive will not slow down a DVR.

But even if you can't accept that this is anything other than a fantasy I might have dreamed up (and honestly, I'm really not that creative), and assuming the premise that only half the drive is useable (which is pretty ridiculous on its face, IMHO), a 2TB drive will still give you 4 times as much usable space as a stock 500, so the reason "because it has more space" still holds.


----------



## TomCat

CCarncross said:


> I dont have that issue, though there are many who claim they do....Do I think an HR with an empty drive is faster than one with a full drive, yes...think of the amount of indexing it has to keep track of if you have ~450 hours of HD recordings on the thing.....truthfully I'm not sure they were ever designed for that...If you think about the original 300G drive, even full it only held about 50 hours, much smaller database and indexing to deal with....I'm not sure they considered that we would be cramming 2TB drives in these things...


A DVR with an empty drive is also a DVR that likely has few if any SLs or WLs (or thumbs info if a Tivo). A DVR with 400 hours of recordings is also likely to be one with lots of SLs and WLs on it. That DVR will be slower to a small degree, but not so much because the drive is full, but primarily because there is a lot of programming that invokes longer routines depending on how many SLs and WLs there are. Blow out all of your SLs and WLs (and thumbs) and the DVR gets instantly peppier. Blow out all the recordings, and it really doesn't. At least that has been my experience on multiple occasions over the last 13 years of owning (OK, and leasing) 17 different DVRs from countless manufacturers.

File idexing only has to happen once. The extent of "keeping track" of those recordings is one-time cataloging and indexing, and once that is done its over. IOW, stuff on the drive does not really impact CPU time once its on the drive and indexed (other than #1 and #2 below, which are minimal).

If you record 4 hours on an empty drive on Tuesday it takes a finite amount of time to index that in the background. If you record another 4 hours on another Tuesday 8 months later (after the wife records 450 hours of _Jersey Shore_ marathon eps in the intervening time) it takes the same amount of finite time to index that in the background. What is on the drive is old news; its already cataloged, already indexed, and there is no regular background mainenance needed.

If you assume that a new, barely programmed DVR typically has little on the HDD and one that has a large number of SLs or WLs is also usually the case for a DVR that might have a lot on the HDD, it is easy to assume that the HDD is the reason when it really is not.

Some things about having lots of recordings will make certain tasks slower, but only minimally slower, and only for the rare time that task is invoked. Having lots of SLs and WLs can seriously slow down a DVR, much more than having lots of recordings will:

1) When the 28-day rule is invoked, the DVR must compare each pending recording to every recording on the DVR in serial fashion to see if there is a match. If you have 3 hours recorded it takes less time to do that than if you have 470 hours recorded. You will only notice this when setting a recording or SL.

2) On reboot, the database is audited, meaning every file it finds on the drive is reconciled with a DB entry, and those files that don't match a DB entry are expunged. So it takes a little longer to reboot a DVR with 470 hours of recordings, and even longer if those are all half-hour shows as opposed to 3-hour baseball games. Obviously, once rebooted, this is no longer a factor.

3) When you set a recording it must compare that time slot to every possible recording that it has set already and every possible WL recording, again in serial fashion, to see if there is a conflict.

4) For a CPU to prioritize a list, it becomes exponentially harder as the list gets longer. If you have 50 SLs, it has to compare each to each other in serial order, which is 50 x 50 tasks. If you have 3, it is 3 x 3 tasks. Reorder your SPs, and this has to happen all over again, and again takes exponentially longer the longer the list is. Maybe there is a method to the madness of a 50 SL limit after all.

5) A WL has to comb every new guide entry for every program on every possible channel that is offered by DTV and compare it to the WL parameters. Now that is a lot of indexing compared to indexing what is already on the drive, and that has to happen every night as new programming info comes in. That is where most of the background indexing occurs. If you have a lot of WLs, it can slow things down exactly for that reason, backing up other tasks.

But none of these things have anything (other than the 28-day rule and reboots) to do with what is on the drive. Once recorded and indexed, "mission accomplished" as George Bush infamously phrases it.


----------



## CCarncross

Yeah, and what he said above.....bottom line to all this discussion....a weekly reboot of your dvrs sometime on the weekend, say before you go to bed friday or saturday night, can go a long way into possibly improving the performance of them....I believe E* receivers reboot nightly, and I'll bet part of the reason is to help improve performance.


----------



## Rich

CCarncross said:


> Yeah, and what he said above.....bottom line to all this discussion....a weekly reboot of your dvrs sometime on the weekend, say before you go to bed friday or saturday night, can go a long way into possibly improving the performance of them....I believe E* receivers reboot nightly, and I'll bet part of the reason is to help improve performance.


Glad we're back to brevity again, I almost fell asleep trying to read those overly long posts.

Rich


----------



## millercentral

I think it is a really interesting discussion. 

I really want more space, but I don't want to think about managing my DVR shows. Today our family doesn't ever bother manually deleting shows from the playlist -- the HR2x (like the Tivo before it) automatically drops the oldest items when room is need to record something new. Really the only interaction we have with it is setting things to record and picking things to watch.

If I were to connect a large ESATA device, I worry that any time there is a studder or an audio glitch or a UI pause (all of which of course we occasionally see today with stock drives), I -- or more importantly my wife -- will immediately place full blame on that external drive.

And maybe thats just the state of this solution today... and while I love to tinker, the HDDVR is perhaps too core a device in our household to mess with in that way.


----------



## CCarncross

The beauty of the external drive is if it starts to go bad, you just slap a replacement on it. Much easier to do than having to replace a leased DVR because the internal failed...even better is that if it hasnt completely failed yet, you can copy the old drive onto the new drive and keep all the shows you havent watched yet, and all your SL's, and all your settings etc...oh, and its always bigger than the stock internals...


----------



## powpowmeow

millercentral said:


> Question: What is the point of a 2TB drive if you can't let it get past 50% full without service degradation? Do the faster HR24s also suffer with large drives as they get full?


i started doing the restart when i noticed menus loading slowly, etc, and my drive is pretty much maxed out now. but since doing the restarts it seems to be performing fine! only done it twice, maybe thrice


----------



## Rich

powpowmeow said:


> i started doing the restart when i noticed menus loading slowly, etc, and my drive is pretty much maxed out now. but since doing the restarts it seems to be performing fine! only done it twice, maybe *thrice*


Aha! An anachronism!....:lol:

Glad it's working out for you. Keep on letting us know how you're making out with that EURS. Please.

Rich


----------



## mmash

I've been using the following two together for 1 week now and I've only used 6% of the drive and I've recorded a ton - it's been rock solid so far. Just FYI for someone looking for a solid setup using an HR24.

Western Digital 2 TB AV-GP SATA Intellipower 32 MB Cache Bulk/OEM AV Hard Drive WD20EVDS -amazon (paid $114)

Thermaltake BlacX eSATA USB Docking Station - amazon (paid $36)

Very worthwhile upgrade for the HR24 - just wish I had more than a 50 maximum on the season pass records though, that's the only reason I miss my HR10-250.


----------



## CCarncross

mmash said:


> I've been using the following two together for 1 week now and I've only used 6% of the drive and I've recorded a ton - it's been rock solid so far. Just FYI for someone looking for a solid setup using an HR24.
> 
> Western Digital 2 TB AV-GP SATA Intellipower 32 MB Cache Bulk/OEM AV Hard Drive WD20EVDS -amazon (paid $114)
> 
> Thermaltake BlacX eSATA USB Docking Station - amazon (paid $36)
> 
> Very worthwhile upgrade for the HR24 - just wish I had more than a 50 maximum on the season pass records though, that's the only reason I miss my HR10-250.


That drive and either the enclosure you chose or the Antec MX-1 are the 2 most highly recommended setups so no news there...

Might I suggest combining some of your SL's to be able to record way more than 50 shows...I'll give you an example that should be easy enough to follow:

I record many shows on FX, like Archer, The League, Rescue Me, Lights Out.....

In 1 SL I can record 3 or 4 like this...

AANY ARCHER LEAGUE RESCUE LIGHTS TTITLE CCHAN248

After you get your search results, I choose all, then autorecord, and pick new, and your episode retention options..

That boolean search will search show titles on FX only for the keywords I used...

Never seems to miss for me...

My entire Series Manager is literally full of those..2, 3, or sometimes 4 shows per SL...for convenience I group all my shows on a specific channel into 1 SL...

Works for OTA locals, etc...never seems to fail.


----------



## mmash

Wow - thanks...I think I got it now if I can just get the searches down.


----------



## CCarncross

mmash said:


> Wow - thanks...I think I got it now if I can just get the searches down.


Check out this post for some more tips:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=1042604#post1042604


----------



## heartspeace

CCarncross said:


> Drive will never spin down in a DVR....the best recommendation is buy a WD 2TB model in the EADS, EVDS, or EURS lines, and either use the Antec MX-1 enclosure or the Thermaltake BlacX that if you read more of this thread will be highly recommended solutions. Drives larger than 2TB are not useable, the OS on the device will only recognize up to 2TB drives currently.
> 
> And the thread you are looking for about drive replacement is here:
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=167440


After about 40 movies and a bunch of shows (25% used) - the hard drive I used w/ the case is stuttering - inconsistently... e.g. it will play a part and freeze sometimes - and then you can go back and it will play through it fine. Othertimes - no matter what you do its screwed for that short segment (about 10 seconds or so).

Do you think this is because of the Rosewell enclosure - or more likely to do with the WD20EVDS possibly being bad. The Rosewell unit seems like a great unit - has a fan - has always worked on everything - but perhaps just not on DirecTv...

Any thoughts?


----------



## heartspeace

CCarncross said:


> That drive and either the enclosure you chose or the Antec MX-1 are the 2 most highly recommended setups so no news there...
> 
> Might I suggest combining some of your SL's to be able to record way more than 50 shows...I'll give you an example that should be easy enough to follow:
> 
> I record many shows on FX, like Archer, The League, Rescue Me, Lights Out.....
> 
> In 1 SL I can record 3 or 4 like this...
> 
> AANY ARCHER LEAGUE RESCUE LIGHTS TTITLE CCHAN248
> 
> After you get your search results, I choose all, then autorecord, and pick new, and your episode retention options..
> 
> That boolean search will search show titles on FX only for the keywords I used...
> 
> Never seems to miss for me...
> 
> My entire Series Manager is literally full of those..2, 3, or sometimes 4 shows per SL...for convenience I group all my shows on a specific channel into 1 SL...
> 
> Works for OTA locals, etc...never seems to fail.


BTW the Antex MX-1 is on clearance over at Staples for $49.99 in case no one has mentioned it yet - and only a handful left at Amazon.


----------



## heartspeace

rich584 said:


> That's to be expected. You should be rebooting when you see that. The main reason I have so many 2TB drives on so many HRs is that they never get to the 50% mark. So, I never see the issues you're dealing with.
> 
> I just read the post where you said that you were seeing slowdowns in menu browsing and things like that, with 50% full. I don't like that. My EVDS 2TBs don't do that, but, as I said, none of them are at 50% full. In the past, I have deliberately loaded a couple of them well past 50% just to see what happened and I didn't notice any slowdowns in the Guide, Playlist, Menus, etc., until I reached the 30% to 20% mark.
> 
> It will be interesting to see if other EURS owners experience the same issues.
> 
> Rich


I am sure people have asked this before but I cant find an answer in this thread yet. Can you copy one drive to another (clone it sector by sector) and put it back on the HR -xx (23 in my case) and have it work just like the old hard drive did?


----------



## heartspeace

powpowmeow said:


> Cool. I was thinking a way to test out if a pc can defrag an external used by the hr series:
> 
> -plug in the esata to the hr right out of the box
> -let it format or do it's thing, whatever it does
> -test record a show
> - shut down the hr, plug the esata into the pc, run perfectdisk
> -plug it back into the hr
> 
> now if the drive has been changed somehow by the pc, in terms of file system/compatibility with the HR, will the HR just automatically reformat the hard drive to make it compatible? or is their the potential i have made my new external drive permanently incompatible with the HR?
> 
> thanks!


Did you get a chance to try this (defragging - and also checking the disk for errors? Please report back if you can with your results. I truly suspect that defragging could help (I am pretty sure it does it for the internal drives - but not external). It is sad that is a limitation of using externals. I also suspect that bad sectors and such are taken care of using the internal smart system on the hard drives - but it will still develop some errors that are not caught and need to be checked. Question of how to do this Im sure someone here has done and tried... but can't find the thread/message - anyone care to enlighten?


----------



## heartspeace

top_speed said:


> I purchased a SATA-to-SATA (sector & data) copier box to do the chore. If anybody's interested in "easy" SATA cloning: http://www.usbgear.com/SS-126ASD.html
> I will let ya know how the "easy" part goes


Did sector by sector copying and putting on same dvr as original drive work?


----------



## heartspeace

rich584 said:


> That's why I have twelve HRs.
> 
> Rich


12? Ok - are you

1) REALLY into TV shows
2) Love to play with this technology
3) Have money to burn
4) Do this as a living or are connected with it so that its just part of who you are
5) All the above
6) Something totally else...


----------



## heartspeace

powpowmeow said:


> Update: Around 30% space left free, started to notice freeze ups during playback of recorded programs.


Anyone else at less than 30% on 2TB and not getting freeze ups?


----------



## heartspeace

rsblaski said:


> CCarncross said:
> 
> 
> 
> I pretty much reboot all my dvrs on Friday or Saturday night every week....QUOTE]
> 
> Nudge nudge, wink wink, say no more....
> 
> 
> 
> This really then boils down to limitations in the firmware and the hardware bandwidth/CPU power...
Click to expand...


----------



## Volman

heartspeace said:


> Do you think this is because of the Rosewell enclosure - or more likely to do with the WD20EVDS possibly being bad. The Rosewell unit seems like a great unit - has a fan - has always worked on everything - but perhaps just not on DirecTv...
> 
> Any thoughts?


I've been using a Rosewill RX-358 (like Weaknees used) for a couple of years with a WD10EVDS and no problems at all. But generally external enclosures seem to go bad more than HDDs.I keep a spare eSata enclosure around to have a backup enclosure..........and for testing in a situation like you have.


----------



## Rich

heartspeace said:


> 12? Ok - are you
> 
> 1) REALLY into TV shows
> 2) Love to play with this technology
> 3) Have money to burn
> 4) Do this as a living or are connected with it so that its just part of who you are
> 5) All the above
> 6) Something totally else...


I don't trust the HRs or the HDDs or the external devices. So, I back up every program I want to watch several times. That's the main reason I have so many HRs. Oddly, I watch more NetFlix content than D* content most days. I don't do anything for a living. Don't have to. Don't like to play with technology, would rather things just worked as they should, but I've had so many problems that having twelve HRs that actually work correctly gives me freedom from the replacement program.

Do I have money to burn? Does anyone? :lol:

Rich


----------



## heartspeace

*Skip this if you don't enjoy some pondering and self thought about the systems and their past/current capabilities and areas of likely failure resulting in freezing/slowness in today's current firmware/OS.* No flames about wall of texts - please. 

One might be surprised how easy it is to take care of these lists within the DVR. Really that is not the issue - e.g. if you have a program set to be recorded - and it has the channel number as part of the data - all it has to do is to search 50 channels for that show to record ( one scheduled recording for each set of programs recorded on that channel number).

After that is done it has to compare it to previous recordings - again this isn't a comparison to every recording you have - recordings are indexed (probably in multiple ways w/ hash tables), so that a comparison of a new recording will be only compared to the recordings of that channel or perhaps a smaller subset using additional indexing (for example).

Does searching for ALL shows with a certain name to be recorded really take that long to search for, so that every instance of it can be recorded when the program guide is downloaded and recordings are inserted into the task list? (of course multiplied by 50 at most for the number of programs - worst case)

_You can do this yourself ( test one search with a slower method than automatic ) while watching a program and recording two others... To do this search on the name of a program and then click on it and see all the channels its playing on. _

The DVRs dont exactly have a FAST processors - so it takes a few seconds - but nothing seriously long. Consider that the programming guide is downloaded typically during the restart of the DVR - or at the specified download times when the DVR is running for days/weeks and it wont take that long for searching the channels for the new recordings. Even then its quicker to compare it to the recordings that are most likely indexed in a way that only a small subset of the recordings have to be compared. Very easy to do. 

Many programmers that have to search large subsets of data for specific strings or combination of data through various databases have done this, or on a much larger scale. OLD knowledge. Personally, I too have done similar things on **much** larger databases (e.g. fingerprint recognition databases / facial recognition etc - biometrics) at the largest scale. Now THAT is computationally intensive - but when done with the right hardware/RAM/algorithms - not really hard - just tedious and lots of requirements to do things intelligently. The real challenge is handling the processing of thousands of requests / 10 of thousands / etc per second against that entire database in very short time for a complete transaction as its extremely time critical etc. It goes much deeper - but can't go deep into it here.

*What we are talking here with a few hundred shows and 50 new shows at different time slots with a new schedule coming in periodically - and marrying this to a database over a sata bus is not... as long as you have a mildly decent processor, enough RAM, and good bandwidth between the hard drive via the bus to the rest of the system.*

I strongly suspect (I would have to look at the internals of the DVR and its chips.. which probably has already been done by someone here or other places) that the CPU is subpar along with the amount of RAM and its probably using at most an sata II bus - probably sata I in a lot of models (most?).

Regardless if you are using the right CPU - have enough RAM etc - it can do this easily, playback a program and record two others. Keep in mind a blackberry can search all of the data within it, with much larger record sets and multiple search terms and come back with a result in a split second... The problem shouldn't be a slowdown due to any number of recordings or the scheduling or the schedule guide. This is a minor task for any CPU this day if programmed correctly with the data set here.

As such if there really are problems with slowness - there is either a hardware flaw/inadequacy or firmware/algorithm problems - as this is not a complex problem in the least - not exponential if programed even halfway correctly.

However, digging deeper I suspect that their chips just were not set up to handle the size of the hard drives and the firmware doesn't have the proper algorithms. I remember when adding large hard drives to PC's required a special bios or it flatly either didn't work or was slow as hell - because the designers never took into account those size hard drives (which are puny today). As it seems several of these use Linux kernels - I suspect they were specifically modified for *their* foreseeable uses of these DVRs - and perhaps they under estimated a bit what would be needed in both hardware and software design (most likely) - or they could just have put in really crappy algorithms to handle these tasks (not unimaginable). Again the indexing tasks / record set handling tasks at hand are not hard to do and can be done on most smartphones in a a heartbeat or two with the right algorithms and enough RAM, a halfway decent CPU, even smartphones as of 5 years ago.

As some of these systems are seeing freezing at 50% etc / or slowing down in the menus - it seems that the real culprit might be just not being able to handle the large hard drives with appropriate algorithms.  I suspect that the hard drives are the cause of eating up too much RAM in their design and perhaps not being able to handle the throughput that is needed w/ the various compression level they are using esp with some of the CPUs combined with the video processors on the broadcom chips (although the HR24 seems to be different).

*It boils down to something is just designed to be using too much resources. It's not the scheduling function or the indexing of the recordings. It simply doesn't make sense that such a simple problem with this limited data set would have any problems unless some other functions were stealing valuable resources - such as RAM or the CPU cycles. *

I feel simply the use of the larger hard drive is requiring more RAM and CPU cycles to handle the large number of sectors in use / seeming lack of defragmenting from what I can see for external drives, combined with disk errors that may more readily be handled on internal drives by their firmware than on external drives. 

If you do some research you can see multiple examples of different people adding larger hard drives to their linux system(s) and seeing a slow down in their overall system. Most likely the same problems facing many of these individuals are before the programmers that create the firmware/software for these DVRs. At times I have seen speed ups - but I really don't feel they were/are ready for 2TB and 3TB or higher drives from simply having (or allocating) the resources to dedicate to these size drives and still have the system run smoothly.

*With creativity I believe they can fix the issues with external drives, defragmenting them - checking for errors, and even the speed - IF they got the right hardware to use and there are not bugs in their chip sets - I suspect they will also have to adjust/change some of their algorithms and perhaps change the way they reserve space (if they do) for certain data sets on parts of the disk. AND if they have been assigned the task rather than working with other companies such as TIVO for the next breakthrough designed to bring back millions of customers. Most likely a small team still is expensed on the budget sheet to make significant improvements to the guts of the system.*

Will they and send us new updates? Only time will tell. Until then - with larger drives - I think we can expect to have to deal with slowness at times - freezing - and perhaps (if possible) offline maintenance and rebooting periodically just to keep the systems going. Rather unacceptable - but I suspect this is why they dont officially support any 2TB or larger drive setups at this time. Will the new Thompson Tivo DVR push all the rest of this out the window and still allow for external drives? TBD.

*I know much of this is conjecture of their internals *- but the basis for it is fairly sound as these are common problems faced by companies when adding more storage for databases/data sets/etc and needing more RAM/CPU cycles and a larger data bus to handle it. The older systems probably will be impacted the most and the later systems - the least - if they added more ram/better cpu/ and used sata ii in later systems rather than sticking with one set of hardware.

Of course there is the issues of backwards compatibility also - and as such limitations on what can be done for new systems because you can only keep so many versions of an OS around that needs to be tested/quality controlled etc. by many people.

*It gets expensive to maintain many sets of hardware with more than one version of an OS. * It's a balance of pushing for new boundaries of what the software/hardware can do - and having to push millions of older customers into new equipment. Someone has to eat that cost. So many times its just cheaper to stick within the common subset and as a result - there really isnt much of an improvement on new systems except the CPU, system bus, and data bus. If they use the same RAM size and table sets without it being dynamic - then there will be no increase in speed or robustness. *If they programmed it with forethought years of ago of what is to come today (without rewriting the foundation) then they should be able to adapt and give us huge improvements in the OS and the handling of larger databases of movies/tv shows on these larger hard drives.*

HP

PS Now I am curious - I will see to see if I can find a breakdown of the chips used in the various systems. With that in mind, they are probably using low end ARM CPUs- but there are much more powerful CPUs for a few dollars more. I suspect most DirecTv users would pay $25 more for a zippy machine that responds instantly - perhaps even $50. It depends on what else it can do - act as a media device for all your pictures, and as a gateway to other services?

*They are one of the prime companies in a unique position to do this - as most of us spend more time at the tv box with the exception of the Internet than any other device with the exception on the smartphones. But they control the TV for now. I don't want to watch TV via my PS3. I rather view Netflix via DirecTv (although that will never happen). Yet the tv setup box is where every company wants to be - and the companies that have it are blowing their chance to grab larger chunks of the media market.*

4/7/2011

Found this so far:



> The HR20 is a bit faster [than all but the HR24], due to having 2 separate Broadcom processors - a CPU and a video processor.
> 
> The HR21-23 all have a single-chip Broadcom solution, which costs less and uses less power, but runs a little slower.


 http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=172395

So part of theory is confirmed - they are not using faster processors in each model w/ exception of a mild increase in the HR24. Thus they are stuck with trying to add more features - and handle more resources (larger hard drive) with same CPU capabilities from 5 years ago - seems to be in effort to save cost. *Perhaps there using slow CPUs and system parts will end if there is a TIVO based DVR (via Thompson) released this year with TIVO demanding certain performance requirements to protect their name (regardless of company worth), but if it still allows external hard drive for recording since it (with the risk of going out on a very thin limb) will an end to the HR series. If it allows it to be pushed to the cloud (or even the home cloud) and stored on PC's authorized to play the media... goldmine.
*

As for the HR24 - it seems to be faster CPU and more RAM (can find all the receivers specifics... yet.. Can anyone tell me how much RAM each system has - that would help a lot. but for the CPU of the latest HR24 seems to be a bit faster - probably would allow less stuttering with programs along with the increased RAM - IF its put to use. I suspect the Thompson Tivo Edition (if it ever comes out) will have much more serious hardware than the HR24 (but I have been know to eat my walls of text before..) *I found the following fascinating and SAD for DirecTv:*



> Processor, IPS, IPS/Hz, Year
> *HR23 has BCM7401 (450 DMIPS)2005* [HP Edit: 450 DMIPS... WTF]
> *HR24 730+ Mips 2010* [HP Edit: 730 MIPS... WTF]
> Intel Pentium Pro 541 MIPS at 200 MHz 02705 2.705 1996
> Intel Pentium III 1,354 MIPS at 500 MHz 02708 2.708 1999
> ARM Cortex A8 2,000 MIPS at 1.0 GHz 02000 2.0 2005
> Pentium 4 Extreme Edition 9,726 MIPS at 3.2 GHz 03039 3.039 2003
> Xbox360 IBM "Xenon" Triple Core 19,200 MIPS at 3.2 GHz 02001 6.0 2005
> PS3 Cell BE (PPE only) 10,240 MIPS at 3.2 GHz 021800 3.2 2006
> Intel Core 2 Extreme X6800 27,079 MIPS at 2.93 GHz 09242 9.242 2006
> Intel Core 2 Extreme QX6700 49,161 MIPS at 2.66 GHz 18481 18.481 2006
> Intel Core 2 Extreme QX9770 59,455 MIPS at 3.2 GHz 18580 18.580 2008
> Intel Core i7 Extreme 965EE 76,383 MIPS at 3.2 GHz 23860 23.860 2008
> 
> An uneducated view, just looking at the cpu, the new HR24 cpu is slower than an ipod touch (gen 3). Ipod cpu is 2.75x faster than HR24. A PS3 cpu is 14x faster and an xbox cpu is 26x faster.


 http://www.dbstalk.com/archive/index.php/t-174117.html

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instructions_per_second for full picture of many processors.

(e.g. latest - and way out of a set top box reach and need... Intel Core i7 Extreme Edition 990x 159,000 MIPS at 3.46 GHz 46.0 2011but it goes to show you they are not putting much into this unit and selling it for $200, well leasing it.)

More accurately - look at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_architecture

While this is not truly (not close) an accurate picture as when engineering you have to look at the whole system and marriage of parts (you can't compared one CPU to any other as one is better for a specific task thank others). Yet you can't abandon more power and say sorry - let me take the same powered CPU for less money - it shows NO foresight.

One doesn't have to be a rocket scientist to see DirecTv has made little to no progress on improving the power/significant capabilities of its units- but probably has narrowly looked rather at saving cost - thus buying just enough power to do what they envision - but leaving the unsupported external drives at these large sizes without the resources (most likely CPU and RAM) to handle them properly without degrading other parts of the system (e.g. stuttering video - slow programming guides). 

*It is sad really, such a lack of foresight where rather than adding features and capabilities to capture more millions of users - they decided to cut costs on the manufacturing of the very devices that could give them the control that Sony, Microsoft, and many others have spent billions to achieve. Idiotic really. The CTO should be fired and CEO considered by the board to see if that position really has the vision to bring DirecTv forward.*

With all that being said... I wonder if the HR24's have enough RAM and enough CPU power unused by other functions already installed within it, to make a difference with external drives, say when a 3TB drive or even 2TB drive gets to 20% room left. *Any HR24 owners out there care to comment?*


----------



## heartspeace

Volman said:


> I've been using a Rosewill RX-358 (like Weaknees used) for a couple of years with a WD10EVDS and no problems at all. But generally external enclosures seem to go bad more than HDDs.I keep a spare eSata enclosure around to have a backup enclosure..........and for testing in a situation like you have.


If you would send me a message in a month or so or whenever your dvr is about 60-75% full and tell me if you experience freezing while playing back programs / and if some recordings dont have all the frames. 

HP


----------



## heartspeace

rich584 said:


> I don't trust the HRs or the HDDs or the external devices. So, I back up every program I want to watch several times. That's the main reason I have so many HRs. Oddly, I watch more NetFlix content than D* content most days. I don't do anything for a living. Don't have to. Don't like to play with technology, would rather things just worked as they should, but I've had so many problems that having twelve HRs that actually work correctly gives me freedom from the replacement program.
> 
> Do I have money to burn? Does anyone? :lol:
> 
> Rich


It is a real shame their (DirecTv) technology has not been able to earn your trust so that you feel a need to maintain 12 DVRs with multiple external drives etc. I can see your point. Thinking of the cost though, 200x12 for the dvrs + drive (approx $3600 new) - plus I have no idea how many dishes you have or just using a series of more than average $ splitters - wiring etc. It really screams for a system you can trust to DirecTv and perhaps a wholehouse one at that. I imagine you have UPS's for each system/drive (which speaks to another flaw w/ directv - graceful shutdown with ups cable to powerdown system and drive - so as not to corrupt external drive - that doesn't seemingly have error correction on it.

On top of the recordings, DirecTv VoD, you have Netflix- so its not like you are needing copies of any of those that you can stream, or that you have on dvd/bluray - or that you have other recorded media on other systems. So much is available right at hand these days.

Reminds me of a collector of sorts - like audio songs. I can't get enough of them although I have so many dvd's ripped that I could never listen to that amount of music in my lifetime when combined with my Rhapsody subscription.

It is a crime AT&T/Verizon are charging per byte now for any data streamed to phones. I am sure if Sprint gets enough customers to come back to them, they will also go that route yet that is basically want me all seem to want - access to anything - when we want it - wherever we want it - and on whatever device we want it on - in spite of never ever accessing most any of it.

HP


----------



## Rich

heartspeace said:


> It is a real shame their (DirecTv) technology has not been able to earn your trust so that you feel a need to maintain 12 DVRs with multiple external drives etc. I can see your point. Thinking of the cost though, 200x12 for the dvrs + drive (approx $3600 new) - plus I have no idea how many dishes you have or just using a series of more than average $ splitters - wiring etc. It really screams for a system you can trust to DirecTv and perhaps a wholehouse one at that. I imagine you have UPS's for each system/drive (which speaks to another flaw w/ directv - graceful shutdown with ups cable to powerdown system and drive - so as not to corrupt external drive - that doesn't seemingly have error correction on it.


I own six HRs that I bought on eBay and Craigslist because I don't trust the replacements that D* sends out. So far, I've had only one problem with one that I bought and it was replaced with a 24. That was a bit of expense considering that I bought 1.5TB or 2TB HDDs for each one. But I did that rather than suffer thru D*s purported "refurbishing" program.

The other six I have were given to me by D* at little or no cost. I gotta admit that D* has treated me pretty well and I rarely pay for any installations (my MRV was without cost and they threw in a leased 24 at no cost). Most of the HRs are on UPS devices. That gets expensive too. I only use one dish but I have two SWM16s. All provided by D* without cost.



> On top of the recordings, DirecTv VoD, you have Netflix- so its not like you are needing copies of any of those that you can stream, or that you have on dvd/bluray - or that you have other recorded media on other systems. So much is available right at hand these days.


I don't use NetFlix as you might think. I like older series and watch them in their entirety. That's just a personal preference and has nothing to do with D*. Believe me, I don't lose programming because of HRs failing (something that is rare these days) or HDDs failing (again, rare) or external devices failing (not as rare).



> Reminds me of a collector of sorts - like audio songs. I can't get enough of them although I have so many dvd's ripped that I could never listen to that amount of music in my lifetime when combined with my Rhapsody subscription.


I don't collect anything. When we watch D* content, we delete it immediately.



> It is a crime AT&T/Verizon are charging per byte now for any data streamed to phones. I am sure if Sprint gets enough customers to come back to them, they will also go that route yet that is basically want me all seem to want - access to anything - when we want it - wherever we want it - and on whatever device we want it on - in spite of never ever accessing most any of it.


I want nothing to do with Verizon.

Rich


----------



## Volman

heartspeace said:


> If you would send me a message in a month or so or whenever your dvr is about 60-75% full and tell me if you experience freezing while playing back programs / and if some recordings dont have all the frames.
> 
> HP


It has been 70% full with no "noticeable" slowdown that I can tell.The same was true for a now dead FAP 750GB and an in-use Seagate Extreme 1TB.

Fred


----------



## CCarncross

Come to think of it, I never noticed slowdowns on the 1TB drives. It didnt seem to be an issue until I hit the 1.5TB and 2TB drive sizes.


----------



## Volman

CCarncross said:


> Come to think of it, I never noticed slowdowns on the 1TB drives. It didnt seem to be an issue until I hit the 1.5TB and 2TB drive sizes.


The 750GB FAP, and then 1TB drives are all that I have ever used. I've had slowdowns, but always was able to get the drives back to normal with reboots,etc.

So I have no point of reference to drives larger than 1TB.

Fred


----------



## Rich

CCarncross said:


> Come to think of it, I never noticed slowdowns on the 1TB drives. It didnt seem to be an issue until I hit the 1.5TB and 2TB drive sizes.


I deliberately filled Seagate 1TBs in MX-1s and a 750 Cavalry and a 750 FAP. They all slowed down the HRs at about the same percentage of capacity. Just as the 1.5TBs and 2TBs did that I filled up deliberately.

I haven't filled up an HDD in a long time. Mine are all 1.5s and 2TBs and they are nowhere near 70% of capacity.

The thing about the bogging down of the HRs because of the loaded external HDDs is that it kind of creeps up on you and you don't realize it right away.

Rich


----------



## Volman

rich584 said:


> I deliberately filled Seagate 1TBs in MX-1s and a 750 Cavalry and a 750 FAP. They all slowed down the HRs at about the same percentage of capacity. Just as the 1.5TBs and 2TBs did that I filled up deliberately.
> 
> I haven't filled up an HDD in a long time. Mine are all 1.5s and 2TBs and they are nowhere near 70% of capacity.
> 
> The thing about the bogging down of the HRs because of the loaded external HDDs is that it kind of creeps up on you and you don't realize it right away.
> 
> Rich


Could be that it crept up on me and I never noticed!

There may be some validity to the assumption above, that the number of different recordings (ex:not on season passes) ......or something like that......is a contributing factor.

Or could be just Directv voodoo........NRs and so forth.

Fred


----------



## Rich

Volman said:


> Could be that it crept up on me and I never noticed!
> 
> There may be some validity to the assumption above, that the number of different recordings (ex:not on season passes) ......or something like that......is a contributing factor.
> 
> Or could be just Directv voodoo........NRs and so forth.
> 
> Fred


I think it's just a capacity thing that I witnessed. But that was a couple years ago, maybe three years. I have no idea what would happen today, but I kinda doubt that it's been fixed. I was really surprised when the 750s did it. I didn't expect that.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Volman said:


> Could be that it crept up on me and I never noticed!
> 
> There may be some validity to the assumption above, that the number of different recordings (ex:not on season passes) ......or something like that......is a contributing factor.
> 
> Or could be just Directv voodoo........NRs and so forth.
> 
> Fred


Another thing to consider is that I get a pretty steady stream of PMs asking me what to do about HRs that are slowing down and it's usually because of the amount of programming on the external HDDs.

Rich


----------



## Volman

rich584 said:


> Another thing to consider is that I get a pretty steady stream of PMs asking me what to do about HRs that are slowing down and it's usually because of the amount of programming on the external HDDs.
> 
> Rich


In any event, we are speculating as to what causes slow downs. I think we agree that large HDDs are currently the best answer along with reboots as needed or even on a regular schedule.

Fred


----------



## Rich

Volman said:


> In any event, we are speculating as to what causes slow downs. I think we agree that large HDDs are currently the best answer along with reboots as needed or even on a regular schedule.
> 
> Fred


Fred, did you ever get that eBay thing straightened out?

Rich


----------



## harsh

Volman said:


> In any event, we are speculating as to what causes slow downs. I think we agree that large HDDs are currently the best answer along with reboots as needed or even on a regular schedule.


The question is whether or not you benefit from going beyond 1GB of capacity. If you have to short stroke the 2GB drives to get similar performance, you might as well stick with the 1GB drives.


----------



## Volman

rich584 said:


> Fred, did you ever get that eBay thing straightened out?
> 
> Rich


No, Rich.The company (a big, "Top-Rated-Seller") went out of business and Ebay wouldn't do a thing! Their protection plan was garbage. I don't trust Ebay at all after their decision on this.

I just use Amazon for anything but small $$ items. Thanks for asking!

Fred


----------



## Volman

harsh said:


> The question is whether or not you benefit from going beyond 1GB of capacity. If you have to short stroke the 2GB drives to get similar performance, you might as well stick with the 1GB drives.


That would be true only if the 1TB drives don't suffer the "70% full slow-down" and larger drives DO slow at 70+%. Is there any real proof of this? Even though I have had good luck with 1TB drives, I'm unsure.

Fred


----------



## Rich

Volman said:


> That would be true only if the 1TB drives don't suffer the "70% full slow-down" and larger drives DO slow at 70+%. Is there any real proof of this? Even though I have had good luck with 1TB drives, I'm unsure.
> 
> Fred


Had you been with me a couple years ago when *RussDog* started the "eSATA FAQ" thread and had seen what I saw, you would be a believer. I don't know if what I saw would be the same today, but I have to doubt that D* changed much in a feature that they don't support.

Do the 24s have this problem? I have no idea. But, I would swear in court that what I reported at the time was true.

Rich


----------



## Rich

harsh said:


> The question is whether or not you benefit from going beyond 1GB of capacity. If you have to short stroke the 2GB drives to get similar performance, you might as well stick with the 1GB drives.


You are missing the point of having larger HDDs.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Volman said:


> No, Rich.The company (a big, "Top-Rated-Seller") went out of business and Ebay wouldn't do a thing! Their protection plan was garbage. I don't trust Ebay at all after their decision on this.
> 
> I just use Amazon for anything but small $$ items. Thanks for asking!
> 
> Fred


That's a shame.

Rich


----------



## Volman

rich584 said:


> Had you been with me a couple years ago when *RussDog* started the "eSATA FAQ" thread and had seen what I saw, you would be a believer. I don't know if what I saw would be the same today, but I have to doubt that D* changed much in a feature that they don't support.
> 
> Do the 24s have this problem? I have no idea. But, I would swear in court that what I reported at the time was true.
> 
> Rich


I'd say you are right. It's logical that an almost full HDD would be slower. I'm not at the 70% mark very often, so I any have not noticed any slowness......or may have seen it as typical intermittent slowness that I HAVE noticed at times. You've had more experience with different drives, especially 2TB, so I'll defer to you on this.

Fred


----------



## Rich

Volman said:


> I'd say you are right. It's logical that an almost full HDD would be slower. I'm not at the 70% mark very often, so I any have not noticed any slowness......or may have seen it as typical intermittent slowness that I HAVE noticed at times. You've had more experience with different drives, especially 2TB, so I'll defer to you on this.
> 
> Fred


When we were using Macs back in the middle '80s to the early '90s, we were told by the guy in charge of the beta testing that we were doing in conjunction with the Mac fiber optic network that we were using, that the Macs would use the empty portions of the HDDs as a "virtual RAM" resource.

Later, when I was teaching PC classes one of the college's workbooks said that the less you had on the HDD, the better whatever version of Windows the book addressed would work with a relatively empty HDD for the same reason. I have nothing else to back that up with, but I've found it to be true most of the time. I gotta admit I never filled a Mac or PC HDD up, but my wife did and she had all kinds of problems with the Macs.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Volman said:


> I'd say you are right. It's logical that an almost full HDD would be slower. I'm not at the 70% mark very often, so I any have not noticed any slowness......or may have seen it as typical intermittent slowness that I HAVE noticed at times. You've had more experience with different drives, especially 2TB, so I'll defer to you on this.
> 
> Fred


Just happened to remember that I did fill up a Cavalry 2TB RAID eSATA and it slowed down and had to be rebooted every few days. Had a hard time filling that thing up. Seemed like it took forever.

Rich


----------



## qwerty

rich584 said:


> Yup, I tried disconnecting the internal drive on one of my owned 20-700s and it doesn't work anymore. There was a time when you could disconnect the internal and it would run off the eSATA. No more, apparently. You have to have the internal drive hooked up. Same goes for the 20-100.
> 
> Rich


Is this still the case? Can anyone confirm? I'd like to pull the internal for reuse with my PC if I can. I'm running an R22, by the way. Thanks.


----------



## edpowers

qwerty said:


> Is this still the case? Can anyone confirm? I'd like to pull the internal for reuse with my PC if I can. I'm running an R22, by the way. Thanks.


I am running an HR20-700 on eSATA with the internal drive disconnected. It works for me.


----------



## Rich

edpowers said:


> I am running an HR20-700 on eSATA with the internal drive disconnected. It works for me.


Can you boot up without the internal drive, only using the external device? Maybe D* changed some things. Been a long time since I tried it and failed.

Rich


----------



## edpowers

rich584 said:


> Can you boot up without the internal drive, only using the external device? Maybe D* changed some things. Been a long time since I tried it and failed.
> 
> Rich


Yes, I've been using this setup for around a year now. The internal drive is completely disconnected and it boots up with my external.


----------



## Rich

edpowers said:


> Yes, I've been using this setup for around a year now. The internal drive is completely disconnected and it boots up with my external.


Huh. I'm surprised. They took away the ability to do that a couple years ago and, I guess, they've reinstated it. Good to know. Thanx.

Rich


----------



## Haviland

As a two week new first time user of a DVR, a HR24/200, I am in the collection mode. By collection I mean recording. Already I have filled 70% of my HD space. I figure when my Freebie HBO & Showtime end I'll have time to watch what I've collected.

From what I've learned here in the couple hours of reading I've done I've decided to order a WD20EARS 2TB and a Thermaltake BlacX eSATA USB Docking Station. As I understand it once I connect the outboard HD the internal will cease to function. Questions are, "Will what I have already saved on it be lost? Can I un-plug the outboard and go back to view what's now recorded on it? Or should I plan to watch and "empty" the internal before adding the external?" Any help or tips on managing my new visual resource would certainly be appreciated. So far I'm LOVIN' the DVR, but realize I've got a lot to learn to get the most out of it.


----------



## Volman

It will not be lost. Basically, any recording made on a HDD (internal or external) is "married" to that particular DVR. You must go through a reboot/ connect or disconnect of the eSata as you said.

Fred


----------



## Rich

Haviland said:


> As a two week new first time user of a DVR, a HR24/200, I am in the collection mode. By collection I mean recording. Already I have filled 70% of my HD space. I figure when my Freebie HBO & Showtime end I'll have time to watch what I've collected.
> 
> From what I've learned here in the couple hours of reading I've done I've decided to order a WD20EARS 2TB and a Thermaltake BlacX eSATA USB Docking Station. As I understand it once I connect the outboard HD the internal will cease to function. Questions are, "Will what I have already saved on it be lost? Can I un-plug the outboard and go back to view what's now recorded on it? Or should I plan to watch and "empty" the internal before adding the external?" Any help or tips on managing my new visual resource would certainly be appreciated. So far I'm LOVIN' the DVR, but realize I've got a lot to learn to get the most out of it.


If I were you, I'd reconsider that EARS HDD and get a WD EVDS 2TB. The EARS didn't work at all at first, then an NR changed that and some folks report success in using them, but still have difficulties with them. The EVDS might be a bit more expensive, but it is made specifically for DVRs and it's the only HDD that I'd recommend at this time. The Thermaltake docking station is a good choice. Spend the extra few bucks for the EVDS and you'll have a trouble free experience. I've got...I don't know how many I've got, but I've never had a problem with an EVDS.

Rich


----------



## cwpomeroy

I've had a WD 1TB drive in it for around 3 years, the power cycled in the house today (storms) and the drive won't spin up (technically it makes a grinding noise - but it never works with the DirecTv box).

Is the MX-1 still a good enclosure to use? What's the best drive to pair with it nowadays? I've read thru the forums and it seems like a mixed bag going to the 2TB. 

Thanks!

(ps. i checked these threads but the first post hasn't been edited in years. Any chance we could post a sticky with the latest recommendations? I apoligize in advance if that exists and I just didn't find it.)


----------



## CCarncross

WD EVDS models
WD EADS models
WD EARS models

all appear to work very well in an MX-1 or the Thermaltake BlacX, which are probably 2 of the most popular enclosures


----------



## Rich

cwpomeroy said:


> I've had a WD 1TB drive in it for around 3 years, the power cycled in the house today (storms) and the drive won't spin up (technically it makes a grinding noise - but it never works with the DirecTv box).


That "grinding noise" is an indication of a shot HDD. Dump it.



> Is the MX-1 still a good enclosure to use? What's the best drive to pair with it nowadays? I've read thru the forums and it seems like a mixed bag going to the 2TB.


I prefer the Thermaltake docking stations, but the MX-1s work well too. And I only recommend the EVDS line of WD HDDs. They just work well and are less of a hassle.



> (ps. i checked these threads but the first post hasn't been edited in years. Any chance we could post a sticky with the latest recommendations? I apoligize in advance if that exists and I just didn't find it.)


There are so many posts in the eSATA threads that I don't know how anyone could make a good decision. Better to post in one of those threads and ask your questions. We all get notifications as soon as the post goes on the forum and someone will help you quickly.

Rich


----------



## rsblaski

Having looked at the recommended drives at the beginning of this thread, I can't seem to find the WDG1S5000 in stock anywhere. It must be a very popular item.


Attn newbies: the above is just to demonstrate the progress made since external hard drives were enabled two years ago.


----------



## Rich

rsblaski said:


> Having looked at the recommended drives at the beginning of this thread, I can't seem to find the WDG1S5000 in stock anywhere. It must be a very popular item.
> 
> Attn newbies: the above is just to demonstrate the progress made since external hard drives were enabled two years ago.


Yeah, I wouldn't recommend going back too far on those threads.

Rich


----------



## heartspeace

Turns out after putting the identical hard drive into the Antec MX-1 everything works beautifully. Rosewell is a NO GO for me.

HP



heartspeace said:


> After about 40 movies and a bunch of shows (25% used) - the hard drive I used w/ the case is stuttering - inconsistently... e.g. it will play a part and freeze sometimes - and then you can go back and it will play through it fine. Othertimes - no matter what you do its screwed for that short segment (about 10 seconds or so).
> 
> Do you think this is because of the Rosewell enclosure - or more likely to do with the WD20EVDS possibly being bad. The Rosewell unit seems like a great unit - has a fan - has always worked on everything - but perhaps just not on DirecTv...
> 
> Any thoughts?


----------



## Volman

heartspeace said:


> Turns out after putting the identical hard drive into the Antec MX-1 everything works beautifully. Rosewell is a NO GO for me.
> 
> HP


Just shows the variability in dealing with eSata on Directv DVRs. It could be the Rosewill (mine is working perfectly on an HR20-700 for 1 1/2 years).......could be the Rosewill + the specific model of DVR. Possibly could be related to the size of the HDD. Sometimes the cable is at fault.

Some reports of problems with an Antec MX-1 exist. As far as I know, the Thermaltake BlackX dock has been the most reliable.

I do agree with Rich...the weak link is the external enclosure.

Fred


----------



## eoverholt

I have a Direct TV HR21 HD DVR and want to transfer saved shows to an ESATA. It appears that once a ESATA drive is hooked up it disables the internal hard drive of the HR21, making it counter productive in being able to do the transfer. 

Does anyone know of a better way that I can take saved programs and transfer them to an ESATA? Ultimately I would like to be able to burn the saved programs on to a DVD.

Thanks in advance for your help.


----------



## Rich

Volman said:


> Just shows the variability in dealing with eSata on Directv DVRs. It could be the Rosewill (mine is working perfectly on an HR20-700 for 1 1/2 years).......could be the Rosewill + the specific model of DVR. Possibly could be related to the size of the HDD. Sometimes the cable is at fault.
> 
> Some reports of problems with an Antec MX-1 exist. As far as I know, the Thermaltake BlackX dock has been the most reliable.
> 
> I do agree with Rich...the weak link is the external enclosure.
> 
> Fred


I might be encountering my first real problem with a TT. I just got a new 24-500 and it did the same thing as the previous one did. I thought at first it might be the UPS, but it wasn't. This morning I put a different TT on the new HR with the same HDD. Hope that's all it is.

Rich


----------



## CCarncross

eoverholt said:


> I have a Direct TV HR21 HD DVR and want to transfer saved shows to an ESATA. It appears that once a ESATA drive is hooked up it disables the internal hard drive of the HR21, making it counter productive in being able to do the transfer.
> 
> Does anyone know of a better way that I can take saved programs and transfer them to an ESATA? Ultimately I would like to be able to burn the saved programs on to a DVD.
> 
> Thanks in advance for your help.


To save them to DVD, you have to play them back on the dvr they were recorded on. I would would burn them to dvd now, then add your external drive to your dvr...then it doesnt matter what is on the internal drive.


----------



## harsh

eoverholt said:


> I have a Direct TV HR21 HD DVR and want to transfer saved shows to an ESATA.


Copying or moving files is not supported.


> Ultimately I would like to be able to burn the saved programs on to a DVD.


There are many threads that speak to how to do this but know that it takes advantage of an analog connection to a DVD recorder (or a computer emulating a DVD recorder) to digitize the content as it is played back in real time directly from the drive that it was originally recorded on.

The below thread is four years old, but it sums up the process pretty well:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=91438&highlight=dvd+esata

Subsequent to that thread, there have been a couple of "affordable" (under $200) component video capture cards released that will allow you to capture a higher quality picture on a computer that is connected with five RCA cables (or component cables and TOSLINK on the new Hauppauge).

Look into the HD capture devices from Hauppauge (HD PVR) and Avermedia.


----------



## ntrance

eoverholt said:


> Does anyone know of a better way that I can take saved programs and transfer them to an ESATA?


Here is one of the threads that describes how to migrate your recordings from the internal drive to an eSATA drive:
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=167440


----------



## MRM

Interesting the internal hard drive is disabled when connecting an external drive.


----------



## Rich

MRM said:


> Interesting the internal hard drive is disabled when connecting an external drive.


I prefer to think of it as "dormant", it's doing nothing but spinning.

Rich


----------



## oenophile

I bought my original eSata setup a long time ago and am getting frustrated with the noise the drives are putting out. I have a fanless enclosure, so the drives themselves are the issue. I suspect there are newer quieter ways to go. I have two HR-20's and am wondering, is there a preferred setup that:

1) Is quiet (most important)
2) Is simple to setup (slightly prefer a package enclosure/drive but I'm pretty neutral on this, I can easily work the two-piece enclosure + buy a separate drive thing)
3) Is reliable, well constructed (not "cheap")
4) Is either 1TB or 1.5TB or 2TB (I don't care which)
5) Works with HR20

The price isn't relevant, within reason. I'd rather have a quiet reliable setup than a cheap one. (Emphasis on the quiet.)

(P.S. I know there are some recommended drives in this thread - but really looking for the quietest most reliable setup, regardless of price.)

I have read through the thread but was looking for consensus and having a hard time finding it. Thanks so much for your time and assistance.


----------



## Rich

oenophile said:


> I bought my original eSata setup a long time ago and am getting frustrated with the noise the drives are putting out. I have a fanless enclosure, so the drives themselves are the issue. I suspect there are newer quieter ways to go. I have two HR-20's and am wondering, is there a preferred setup that:
> 
> 1) Is quiet (most important)
> 2) Is simple to setup (slightly prefer a package enclosure/drive but I'm pretty neutral on this, I can easily work the two-piece enclosure + buy a separate drive thing)
> 3) Is reliable, well constructed (not "cheap")
> 4) Is either 1TB or 1.5TB or 2TB (I don't care which)
> 5) Works with HR20
> 
> The price isn't relevant, within reason. I'd rather have a quiet reliable setup than a cheap one. (Emphasis on the quiet.)
> 
> (P.S. I know there are some recommended drives in this thread - but really looking for the quietest most reliable setup, regardless of price.)
> 
> I have read through the thread but was looking for consensus and having a hard time finding it. Thanks so much for your time and assistance.


My EVDS drives in my Thermaltake docking stations are quiet. At this moment, I wouldn't buy another external device or a different HDD. And the TT is relatively inexpensive. And very easy to install. Last time I looked, Amazon was selling the 2TB EVDS for $109 and the TT for about $35. No tools needed for installation. They will work with your 20-700s. I have them on my 20-700s that are leased.

Rich


----------



## Direct-Albert

>1) Is quiet (most important)
>2) Is simple to setup (slightly prefer a package enclosure/drive but I'm pretty >neutral on this, I can easily work the two-piece enclosure + buy a separate >drive >thing)
>3) Is reliable, well constructed (not "cheap")
>4) Is either 1TB or 1.5TB or 2TB (I don't care which)
>5) Works with HR20

>The price isn't relevant, within reason. I'd rather have a quiet reliable setup >than a cheap one. (Emphasis on the quiet.)

>(P.S. I know there are some recommended drives in this thread - but really >looking for the quietest most reliable setup, regardless of price.)

_
IF still available, the TenBox meets all of your requirements
www.tenbox.net

Al._


----------



## P Smith

Direct-Albert said:


> >1) Is quiet (most important)
> >2) Is simple to setup (slightly prefer a package enclosure/drive but I'm pretty >neutral on this, I can easily work the two-piece enclosure + buy a separate >drive >thing)
> >3) Is reliable, well constructed (not "cheap")
> >4) Is either 1TB or 1.5TB or 2TB (I don't care which)
> >5) Works with HR20
> 
> >The price isn't relevant, *within reason*. I'd rather have a quiet reliable setup >than a cheap one. (Emphasis on the quiet.)
> 
> >(P.S. I know there are some recommended drives in this thread - but really >looking for the quietest most reliable setup, regardless of price.)
> 
> _
> IF still available, the TenBox meets all of your requirements
> www.tenbox.net
> 
> Al._


Perhaps you miss the phrase:
The price isn't relevant, *within reason*.

So, the box is out of choices.


----------



## Direct-Albert

>


P Smith said:


> Perhaps you miss the phrase:
> >The price isn't relevant, *within reason*.
> 
> >So, the box is out of choices.


*$129 for a TenBox too much to pay?*


----------



## P Smith

Well, you can get 2TB box for $89 from Fry's (keep eyes on their ads).


----------



## CCarncross

oenophile said:


> I bought my original eSata setup a long time ago and am getting frustrated with the noise the drives are putting out. I have a fanless enclosure, so the drives themselves are the issue. I suspect there are newer quieter ways to go. I have two HR-20's and am wondering, is there a preferred setup that:
> 
> 1) Is quiet (most important)
> 2) Is simple to setup (slightly prefer a package enclosure/drive but I'm pretty neutral on this, I can easily work the two-piece enclosure + buy a separate drive thing)
> 3) Is reliable, well constructed (not "cheap")
> 4) Is either 1TB or 1.5TB or 2TB (I don't care which)
> 5) Works with HR20
> 
> The price isn't relevant, within reason. I'd rather have a quiet reliable setup than a cheap one. (Emphasis on the quiet.)
> 
> (P.S. I know there are some recommended drives in this thread - but really looking for the quietest most reliable setup, regardless of price.)
> 
> I have read through the thread but was looking for consensus and having a hard time finding it. Thanks so much for your time and assistance.


You didnt actually mention what eSATA solution you are using now, but among other things, you could just have a drive beginning to fail if you put it in "a long time ago"

The current WD EVDS drives are very quiet, and if you go with a passively cooled enclosure, like the Thermaltake BlacX, they are pretty silent. Obviously an actively cooled enclosure, which may help to prolong the life of the drive due to cooler operating temps, will have some fan noise.


----------



## oenophile

Thanks for the tips, everyone. For those of you wondering what I currently I have I have a plain wrap "green" drive all-in-one solution. They've been loud since day one but I haven't had the money or patience to re-do them.

I have two HR20's, so I've decided to buy one Thermaltake BlacX and one 2TB WD EVDS. I'll install that on my lesser-used HR20 and let it run for a month to see how that goes. I'll report back how much quieter or louder, etc., it is than my existing solution.

Now, about that old thread explaining how to copy a drive....hmmmm....need to find that.



rich584 said:


> My EVDS drives in my Thermaltake docking stations are quiet. At this moment, I wouldn't buy another external device or a different HDD. And the TT is relatively inexpensive. And very easy to install. Last time I looked, Amazon was selling the 2TB EVDS for $109 and the TT for about $35. No tools needed for installation. They will work with your 20-700s. I have them on my 20-700s that are leased.
> 
> Rich





Direct-Albert said:


> _
> IF still available, the TenBox meets all of your requirements
> www.tenbox.net
> 
> Al._





P Smith said:


> Perhaps you miss the phrase:
> The price isn't relevant, *within reason*.
> 
> So, the box is out of choices.





Direct-Albert said:


> >
> 
> *$129 for a TenBox too much to pay?*





P Smith said:


> Well, you can get 2TB box for $89 from Fry's (keep eyes on their ads).





CCarncross said:


> You didnt actually mention what eSATA solution you are using now, but among other things, you could just have a drive beginning to fail if you put it in "a long time ago"
> 
> The current WD EVDS drives are very quiet, and if you go with a passively cooled enclosure, like the Thermaltake BlacX, they are pretty silent. Obviously an actively cooled enclosure, which may help to prolong the life of the drive due to cooler operating temps, will have some fan noise.


----------



## BarkingGhost

This thread is way too long (and old) to digest all the posts in order to find recommended solutions for either an external hard drive solution (drive+enclosure), enclosure alone (have compatible enclosure, but died after 3 years), or a HDD docking station (e.g. Kingwin Ez-Dock, etc.). Can someone recommend something that is compatible, price conscious, etc.?

I'm thinking of re-using the Western Digital Black (WD1001FALS) drive, or buy new. This will be for an HR21-200.


----------



## Rich

BarkingGhost said:


> This thread is way too long (and old) to digest all the posts in order to find recommended solutions for either an external hard drive solution (drive+enclosure), enclosure alone (have compatible enclosure, but died after 3 years), or a HDD docking station (e.g. Kingwin Ez-Dock, etc.). Can someone recommend something that is compatible, price conscious, etc.?
> 
> I'm thinking of re-using the Western Digital Black (WD1001FALS) drive, or buy new. This will be for an HR21-200.


You're right about the thread's length, but that's not gonna change. It's much easier to post your questions on it and one of us will help you. We all get notifications when new posts are entered.

At the moment, we recommend the WD EVDS line of HDDs. They are made specifically for DVRs and work with every HR model. We also recommend the Antec MX-1 enclosure and the Thermaltake docking stations for the HDDs. I prefer the Thermaltake docking stations, but the MX-1 is also a good choice.

Rich


----------



## BarkingGhost

rich584 said:


> You're right about the thread's length, but that's not gonna change. It's much easier to post your questions on it and one of us will help you. We all get notifications when new posts are entered.
> 
> At the moment, we recommend the WD EVDS line of HDDs. They are made specifically for DVRs and work with every HR model. We also recommend the Antec MX-1 enclosure and the Thermaltake docking stations for the HDDs. I prefer the Thermaltake docking stations, but the MX-1 is also a good choice.
> 
> Rich


Ok, I can get another MX-1, but before I do, can you help with a little more specific model Thermaltake docking station (have a link)? 

BTW, much appreciated on the immediate replay.


----------



## rsblaski

BarkingGhost said:


> Ok, I can get another MX-1, but before I do, can you help with a little more specific model Thermaltake docking station (have a link)?
> 
> BTW, much appreciated on the immediate replay.


Try this:

http://www.amazon.com/Thermaltake-B...HAFS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1305394616&sr=8-1

If you can put bread in a toaster, you can put a hard drive in this.


----------



## BarkingGhost

Ok, I picked up that docking station at MC today for $29.99 (and it has a $10 MIR, too). BTW, I have a couple of the Kingwin dociking station, but they are low-duty, USB2 only.

The EVDS I am working on. MC did not have this drive series, but I think Fry's Electronics does. Are the EARS drives not suitable for this application? Not concerned with noise.


----------



## P Smith

BarkingGhost said:


> Ok, I picked up that docking station at MC today for $29.99 (and it has a $10 MIR, too). BTW, I have a couple of the Kingwin dociking station, but they are low-duty, USB2 only.
> 
> The EVDS I am working on. MC did not have this drive series, but I think Fry's Electronics does. *Are the EARS drives not suitable for this application?* Not concerned with noise.


Check it here.


----------



## Rich

BarkingGhost said:


> Ok, I can get another MX-1, but before I do, can you help with a little more specific model Thermaltake docking station (have a link)?
> 
> BTW, much appreciated on the immediate replay.


See what I mean? We don't expect folks to read the whole thread, as you said it's too old and far too long. Just ask and you will receive an answer. Here's a *link* to the WD EVDS that I use.

2TBs is a lot of capacity. You can get smaller EVDS drives. But for the price, you can't beat that 2TB drive. As for the EARS drives, I've read good reports and bad reports about them. I know they are a bit cheaper, but I really urge you to get the EVDS. Simply put, I think the EVDS drives are the best you can do right now. I don't recall ever reading a negative post about them. I did have a problem with one on a 24, but I put it on a 20-700 and it's working fine.

Rich


----------



## rsblaski

BarkingGhost said:


> Ok, I picked up that docking station at MC today for $29.99 (and it has a $10 MIR, too). BTW, I have a couple of the Kingwin dociking station, but they are low-duty, USB2 only.
> 
> The EVDS I am working on. MC did not have this drive series, but I think Fry's Electronics does. Are the EARS drives not suitable for this application? Not concerned with noise.


What/who is MC?
And did you get the Thermaltake for 29.99? And with a 10 rebate? If so, that is a great deal.


----------



## P Smith

MicroCenter


----------



## BobGeeX

I have several of these in my config and need to replace one. Fry's and BB no longer carry this drive and they are saying that the "My Book AV" should be used in place of this - WDBABT0010HBK-NESN. Is this going to work on my HR20-700? Thanks, Bob


----------



## rsblaski

BobGeeX said:


> I have several of these in my config and need to replace one. Fry's and BB no longer carry this drive and they are saying that the "My Book AV" should be used in place of this - WDBABT0010HBK-NESN. Is this going to work on my HR20-700? Thanks, Bob


Bob,
I don't know if that would work (probably would), but I don't know why you wouldn't consider the combinations recommended here for a 2T solution for not much more money and get twice the storage capacity.
I have two Thermaltake BlacX docks, and if you can put bread in a toaster, you can put hard drives in these.
If you get the hard drive and dock separately, if one part goes bad, you only have to replace that. With a MyBook, if one part goes bad, you have to replace both of them.*

*If the enclosure goes bad, you could, of course, drop the hard drive into a new dock.


----------



## BarkingGhost

rsblaski said:


> What/who is MC?
> And did you get the Thermaltake for 29.99? And with a 10 rebate? If so, that is a great deal.


MC = MicroCenter.

I got the WD20EVDS drive to use with the Thermaltake docking station and it is working fine on the DVR.

Also, I picked up one of the Kingwin EZ-DOCK (Model EZD-2535) for $18.99 and it is identical to the Thermaltake unit. Yes, $18.99!

While I have not tested the Kingwin on a DVR, I have tested it on a PC with a WD20EARS drive and it works just fine (and fast).


----------



## Rich

BarkingGhost said:


> MC = MicroCenter.
> 
> I got the WD20EVDS drive to use with the Thermaltake docking station and it is working fine on the DVR.
> 
> Also, I picked up one of the Kingwin EZ-DOCK (Model EZD-2535) for $18.99 and it is identical to the Thermaltake unit. Yes, $18.99!
> 
> While I have not tested the Kingwin on a DVR, I have tested it on a PC with a WD20EARS drive and it works just fine (and fast).


Glad you got it working. You'll be happy with the EVDS. The EARS would have been a crapshoot and you don't want that with a DVR.

Can you see any discernible differences in the TT and the cheaper dock? We've always wondered if they were all made by the same folks and just labeled differently.

Rich


----------



## kilobravo

I'm hoping someone can lend a hand with my current DTV frustration. I have multiple HD receivers and have used external drives with HR20's before but recently, I upped the ante and went with Whole Home. That caused the install of an HR24-100 so I decided to give it some extra drive real estate and picked up the recommended Antex MX1 and a WD20EVDS drive.

No matter what I tried, the receiver simply would not recognize its presence so I sent the MX1 back and picked up a Thermaltake Black Widow, again, based on recommendations I read here. Hooked it up as prescribed and again, the HR24 simply does not see it. So, I'm ready to return the second drive enclosure, keep the drive for other purposes, and simply accept the limited storage on the HR24 unless someone here can help out. TIA


----------



## SWORDFISH

rich584 said:


> ....... Simply put, I think the EVDS drives are the best you can do right now. I don't recall ever reading a negative post about them...........
> Rich


Rich -

I did have one of these go bad (WD10EVDS) after it was in an MX-1 for about 3 months. I disconnected it sent it to WD and used the HR24-500's stock internal drive which went bad within 2 days. Directv replaced the HR24-500 with an HR24-200. Western Digital confirmed the WD10EVDS was fried and replaced it under warranty. I'm not sure what happened, but it seemed to me that the HR24-500 caused the problem, sinced it killed both the external and internal drives within days. It has been 4 months and I have had no problems with the new HR24 or the EVDS.

SF


----------



## BarkingGhost

rich584 said:


> Glad you got it working. You'll be happy with the EVDS. The EARS would have been a crapshoot and you don't want that with a DVR.
> 
> Can you see any discernible differences in the TT and the cheaper dock? We've always wondered if they were all made by the same folks and just labeled differently.
> 
> Rich


Ok, identical may have been a bad word to use. I do notice that aside from the silk screen the power and activity/data LED's are arranged differently, but other than that they are pretty damn identical.

I would not be surprised at all if they have the same OEM supplier.


----------



## Rich

BarkingGhost said:


> Ok, identical may have been a bad word to use. I do notice that aside from the silk screen the power and activity/data LED's are arranged differently, but other than that they are pretty damn identical.
> 
> I would not be surprised at all if they have the same OEM supplier.


Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised either. Must be simple to make. They do work well, tho. The only problem I've had is with the on/off button on one. Fortunately it failed in the "on" position.

Rich


----------



## Rich

SWORDFISH said:


> Rich -
> 
> I did have one of these go bad (WD10EVDS) after it was in an MX-1 for about 3 months. I disconnected it sent it to WD and used the HR24-500's stock internal drive which went bad within 2 days. Directv replaced the HR24-500 with an HR24-200. Western Digital confirmed the WD10EVDS was fried and replaced it under warranty. I'm not sure what happened, but it seemed to me that the HR24-500 caused the problem, sinced it killed both the external and internal drives within days. It has been 4 months and I have had no problems with the new HR24 or the EVDS.


Oh yeah, if you lost two HDDs on the same 24-500, I'd be pretty sure it was the 500 that caused the problem. They come with Seagate Pipeline 500GB drives in them. Hard to believe that two HDDs would fail in/on the same HR without it being the HR's fault.

The 24-200 might very well be the best of the 24s. They're made by Samsung and the one I had worked very well. But it had a loose barrel for the coax connector on the back and I didn't realize it until it was too late. Turn one of those barrels and it breaks the small metal link that's inside the box. Now I check each barrel before I put the coax on the HRs. Hard way to learn.

Rich


----------



## Rich

kilobravo said:


> I'm hoping someone can lend a hand with my current DTV frustration. I have multiple HD receivers and have used external drives with HR20's before but recently, I upped the ante and went with Whole Home. That caused the install of an HR24-100 so I decided to give it some extra drive real estate and picked up the recommended Antex MX1 and a WD20EVDS drive.
> 
> No matter what I tried, the receiver simply would not recognize its presence so I sent the MX1 back and picked up a Thermaltake Black Widow, again, based on recommendations I read here. Hooked it up as prescribed and again, the HR24 simply does not see it. So, I'm ready to return the second drive enclosure, keep the drive for other purposes, and simply accept the limited storage on the HR24 unless someone here can help out. TIA


Is *this* the Thermaltake docking station you used?

That should have worked if that's the one you used. Some of the docking stations are only USB. You need the SATA docking station.

If that is the one you used, tell me exactly what steps you used to hook the docking station to the HR.

Rich


----------



## kilobravo

Yes, Rich, that's the docking station that I bought and yes, I'm using eSata vice USB. As for hooking it up, I tried a couple different ideas the first was the connection and power up order in the docs for the enclosure:

Power down HR24, connect all cables, power up docking station, power up HR24. Tried a couple resets/restarts at the receiver, too. Nada.

Also tried powering up the HR24 before powering up the docking station, same result.

So, if there's a magic order for connection/power up, I'm all ears and thanks. And BTW, I never got the LED on the docking station to come on although I know the receptacle I put the transformer brick in is hot. However, I did not check to see if there was voltage on the output side of the brick. Had planned to try the rig on my computer just to see if it works as advertised there but today was mowing day and after four hours in the hot sun, my incentive level to unhook the rig and bring it into the office is low. <grin>

Thanks


----------



## kilobravo

I figured out the problem and as usual, it was operator error. When I went to hook up the TT enclosure to my PC this morning, I took a closer look at what I THOUGHT was a rubber connector plug on the back and yep, as embarrassing as it is to admit, having my cheaters on for the first time during this drill, that's when I saw the international symbol for power and realized it was an Oh En Oh Eff Eff switch. (laughing)

Hooked it back to the HR24, powered everything up and after the receiver self test I saw, "Formatting Storage Device" so HOPEFULLY that's the end of the problem.


----------



## CCarncross

kilobravo said:


> So, if there's a magic order for connection/power up, I'm all ears and thanks. *And BTW, I never got the LED on the docking station to come on* although I know the receptacle I put the transformer brick in is hot.
> 
> Thanks


I guess this should have tipped us all off that you didnt have the power turned on....sorry...:lol:


----------



## Rich

CCarncross said:


> I guess this should have tipped us all off that you didnt have the power turned on....sorry...:lol:


They could have made that switch more like the MX-1's power switch. I think they went the cheap route with what they used. I've read a lot of posts about that power switch failing. Strange that it fails in the on position.

Rich


----------



## Rich

kilobravo said:


> I figured out the problem and as usual, it was operator error. When I went to hook up the TT enclosure to my PC this morning, I took a closer look at what I THOUGHT was a rubber connector plug on the back and yep, as embarrassing as it is to admit, having my cheaters on for the first time during this drill, that's when I saw the international symbol for power and realized it was an Oh En Oh Eff Eff switch. (laughing)
> 
> Hooked it back to the HR24, powered everything up and after the receiver self test I saw, "Formatting Storage Device" so HOPEFULLY that's the end of the problem.


Glad you got it up and running. Most of the external devices do have a power switch on them, some obvious like the MX-1, some not so obvious. I think the FAP even had a power switch on it, way back when.

Rich


----------



## powpowmeow

rich584 said:


> Aha! An anachronism!....:lol:
> 
> Glad it's working out for you. Keep on letting us know how you're making out with that EURS. Please.
> 
> Rich


update:

all in all im pretty happy with the setup to this point, especially for the money invested
most of the slowdown occurs when i am deleting a show that is currently recording 
other than that, menus load about as fast as normal, and keep in mind i have maxed this drive out for a while, usually leaving about 1-2% free

i did have a one time incident where the receiver stopped responding to the remote altogether for no discernible reason - unplugged hr24, plug back in, good to go again afterwards


----------



## raott

Can anyone recommend a drive plus enclosure solution (ie I can go to bestbuy or walmart to get it) that will work, other than what are recommended on the D* website.

My HR20 is rebooting constantly, it is likely my esata drive (going to test it without), as both are several years old.

Looking for something about 1TB.

Thanks


----------



## Rich

powpowmeow said:


> update:
> 
> all in all im pretty happy with the setup to this point, especially for the money invested
> most of the slowdown occurs when i am deleting a show that is currently recording
> other than that, menus load about as fast as normal, and keep in mind i have maxed this drive out for a while, usually leaving about 1-2% free
> 
> i did have a one time incident where the receiver stopped responding to the remote altogether for no discernible reason - unplugged hr24, plug back in, good to go again afterwards


Didn't you have a problem getting the EURS to be recognized by the HR? Or was that someone else. Sounds as if its working OK now.

Rich


----------



## Rich

raott said:


> Can anyone recommend a drive plus enclosure solution (ie I can go to bestbuy or walmart to get it) that will work, other than what are recommended on the D* website.
> 
> My HR20 is rebooting constantly, it is likely my esata drive (going to test it without), as both are several years old.
> 
> Looking for something about 1TB.
> 
> Thanks


I don't recall seeing any enclosures at BB or WalMart, but I haven't been looking for them either. Easier and cheaper to get them on Amazon. I've got a 20-700 with a WD EADS inside it and it keeps rebooting. Not constantly, just occasionally. When that fails, I'm gonna stick an EURS in it.

If going to your internal drive stops the rebooting it's probably the enclosure. I'd buy a new enclosure before purchasing a new HDD.

Rich


----------



## powpowmeow

rich584 said:


> Didn't you have a problem getting the EURS to be recognized by the HR? Or was that someone else. Sounds as if its working OK now.
> 
> Rich


Nope, not at all. Entire set up process took about 5-10 minutes and I had no issues.

I did have some menu slowdown around 40% full though, thats probably what you remeber. Guessing it is because of the size of the drive.

I went with the EURS because it has a larger memory cache.


----------



## JasonTX

While there are still third party sellers that have the 20EVDS at Amazon, Amazon themselves no longer show up as a retailer for them. Not sure if they are just temporarily out of stock or they aren't going to sell them anymore. Another online retailer I checked said they were discontinued on the 19th. I wonder if they really are going away. 

I bought a MX-1 from Amazon but still haven't decided EVDS or EURS.


----------



## Rich

powpowmeow said:


> Nope, not at all. Entire set up process took about 5-10 minutes and I had no issues.
> 
> I did have some menu slowdown around 40% full though, thats probably what you remeber. Guessing it is because of the size of the drive.
> 
> I went with the EURS because it has a larger memory cache.


Must have been someone else. Glad yours is working correctly.

Rich


----------



## P Smith

powpowmeow said:


> Nope, not at all. Entire set up process took about 5-10 minutes and I had no issues.
> 
> I did have some menu slowdown around 40% full though, thats probably what you remeber. Guessing it is because of the size of the drive.
> 
> I went with the EURS because it has a larger memory cache.


For future reference, could you post your DVR model and SW version on it ?


----------



## powpowmeow

P Smith said:


> For future reference, could you post your DVR model and SW version on it ?


Sure-

HR24-100
0X4A7 (updated 12 minutes ago)


----------



## SWORDFISH

raott said:


> Can anyone recommend a drive plus enclosure solution (ie I can go to bestbuy or walmart to get it) that will work, other than what are recommended on the D* website.
> 
> My HR20 is rebooting constantly, it is likely my esata drive (going to test it without), as both are several years old.
> 
> Looking for something about 1TB.
> 
> Thanks





> Originally Posted by *rich584 *
> I don't recall seeing any enclosures at BB or WalMart, but I haven't been looking for them either. Easier and cheaper to get them on Amazon.


Best Buy does carry the MX-1 and some drives, but as Rich said, it is cheaper to go through Amazon.

SF


----------



## rsblaski

SWORDFISH said:


> Best Buy does carry the MX-1 and some drives, but as Rich said, it is cheaper to go through Amazon.
> 
> SF


Best Buy does have the MX-1, as well as the Thermaltake at _some_ stores. I needed a TT in a hurry and found that only a few of the stores in my area had them in stock. If you need one in a hurry, you can check store availability at their web site.
If speed is not an issue, Amazon, and at times, Buy.com have better prices with no sales tax.


----------



## JasonTX

I tried my new MX-1 with WD20EURS on my HR24-500 last night and it took it a couple tries to get it to format fully without getting a "there is a problem with your storage device" error. After reversing the cable it did format, but it just seems to crawl thru the rest of the boot before the screen goes black on the waiting for satellite info screen.

Anyone think the WD20EVDS would make a difference? My local fry's has some in stock apparently.

I do have another HR24-500, maybe I should try it there as a test.

Jason


----------



## P Smith

> Anyone think the WD20EVDS would make a difference? My local fry's has some in stock apparently.


Anyone think it is.


----------



## JasonTX

P Smith said:


> Anyone think it is.


I realize the WD20EVDS is preferred, if for other no reason than people have more experience with it. There don't seem to be bad stories about WD20EURS, just fewer of them.

I have read a lot of the info on the site, but there is a lot more I haven't read. I have seen X worked or Y didn't but not a lot about these drives had this behavior or my my HR24 did this with anything I tried, so I was just curious if the "seems to kinda work but so slow it isn't functional" is indicative of non preferred hard drives, HR24s when they won't work with an external drive, or what.


----------



## JasonTX

P Smith said:


> Anyone think it is.


You were right.

I went to Fry's and bought a WD20EVDS and everything works fine now.

So while we have seen some success stories with the WD20EURS it isn't a sure thing. For future searchers, I have two HR24-500s that are pretty early ones (about a year old). I am using an Antec MX-1 for the drive. Using the EURS it would work, but crazy slow. Seemed like 20-30 minutes to get it to boot and get to Acquiring Satellite Data and then it would hang. Tested on both of my receivers with same results -- EVDS boots just as fast as it did before.

One other note as the EVDS drives are getting hard to find. Most Fry's in my area (Dallas) have them according to online availability, but when I got to the store I saw they are using the same SKU for the EVDS and EURS. So you won't know which one you are getting unless you ask to see it (they are stored behind counter). All 4 at my store were EVDS. But online would seemingly be a crap shoot.

Hope my information helps someone and I appreciate all the contributions by everyone else.

-Jason


----------



## Rich

JasonTX said:


> You were right.
> 
> I went to Fry's and bought a WD20EVDS and everything works fine now.
> 
> So while we have seen some success stories with the WD20EURS it isn't a sure thing. For future searchers, I have two HR24-500s that are pretty early ones (about a year old). I am using an Antec MX-1 for the drive. Using the EURS it would work, but crazy slow. Seemed like 20-30 minutes to get it to boot and get to Acquiring Satellite Data and then it would hang. Tested on both of my receivers with same results -- EVDS boots just as fast as it did before.
> 
> One other note as the EVDS drives are getting hard to find. Most Fry's in my area (Dallas) have them according to online availability, but when I got to the store I saw they are using the same SKU for the EVDS and EURS. So you won't know which one you are getting unless you ask to see it (they are stored behind counter). All 4 at my store were EVDS. But online would seemingly be a crap shoot.
> 
> Hope my information helps someone and I appreciate all the contributions by everyone else.
> 
> -Jason


It might be the 24-500 rather than the EURS that is causing the problems. The 500s seem a bit cranky about external devices and what you put into them. I went thru two 500s with an EVDS hooked up externally. Both 500s had the same issues with the EVDS. But when I put a new EVDS in place of my original internal drive, it solved the problem. I do own the 500.

What was strange about it was that the same issues popped up with each 500 I used the external drive with. I saw no problems with the HDD itself, not any that would make me think the HDD was bad, but the 500s kept crashing. I haven't had a problem with it since, after putting the HDD in a TT docking station on a 20-700. So, I still don't have a clue as to what the problem was. Why the original EVDS is still working perfectly with the 20-700 really confuses me.

Rich


----------



## P Smith

Can't negotiate for 3 Gbps between DVR and that SATA chip inside of the enclosure ?


----------



## mike5335

Not being one to read the forum before buying, I ordered a WD20EARS and a Vantec NexStar CX NST-300 SU external eSATA case from Amazon yesterday. Total was $105.
The DVR is an HR24-200.

The drive and the case arrived today. By then I had read some of the cautions about both the drive (and its "special" 4K format) and about getting the right case. However, there seemed to be little to lose by installing them. And following the directions here about the connect and power up sequence. I did no jumpering of the drive or special format...I never attached it to my PC.

The process went off without a hitch. The time for the receiver to format the drive was, maybe, a couple minutes. Obviously, I lost my settings and old recordings--all of 2 days worth since the new satellite setup was installed 2 days ago. 

So far, and this is very limited experience, everything works as designed. The Vantec box is fanless (I have it mounted vertically) and is slightly warm to the touch. Very low disk noise.

Of course, it may all collapse in a heap, as I record the Monaco Grand Prix, Indianapolis 500 and the Coca Coca 600 tomorrow. But I plan to report that here and take my licking for not reading thoroughly before I leaped. 

Cheers.


----------



## Rich

mike5335 said:


> Not being one to read the forum before buying, I ordered a WD20EARS and a Vantec NexStar CX NST-300 SU external eSATA case from Amazon yesterday. Total was $105.
> The DVR is an HR24-200.
> 
> The drive and the case arrived today. By then I had read some of the cautions about both the drive (and its "special" 4K format) and about getting the right case. However, there seemed to be little to lose by installing them. And following the directions here about the connect and power up sequence. I did no jumpering of the drive or special format...I never attached it to my PC.
> 
> The process went off without a hitch. The time for the receiver to format the drive was, maybe, a couple minutes. Obviously, I lost my settings and old recordings--all of 2 days worth since the new satellite setup was installed 2 days ago.
> 
> So far, and this is very limited experience, everything works as designed. The Vantec box is fanless (I have it mounted vertically) and is slightly warm to the touch. Very low disk noise.
> 
> Of course, it may all collapse in a heap, as I record the Monaco Grand Prix, Indianapolis 500 and the Coca Coca 600 tomorrow. But I plan to report that here and take my licking for not reading thoroughly before I leaped.
> 
> Cheers.


Good info. Thanx. That problem with the 4K thing was supposedly fixed an NR or two ago. Surprised you didn't have to put a jumper on it. That's good to know too. I just ordered an EARS and I'll try it without the jumper too.

Please let us know how you make out with it after using it for a while.

Rich


----------



## IjustWannaPlay

mike5335 said:


> Not being one to read the forum before buying, I ordered a WD20EARS and a Vantec NexStar CX NST-300 SU external eSATA case from Amazon yesterday. Total was $105.
> The DVR is an HR24-200.
> 
> The drive and the case arrived today. By then I had read some of the cautions about both the drive (and its "special" 4K format) and about getting the right case. However, there seemed to be little to lose by installing them. And following the directions here about the connect and power up sequence. I did no jumpering of the drive or special format...I never attached it to my PC.
> 
> The process went off without a hitch. The time for the receiver to format the drive was, maybe, a couple minutes. Obviously, I lost my settings and old recordings--all of 2 days worth since the new satellite setup was installed 2 days ago.
> 
> So far, and this is very limited experience, everything works as designed. The Vantec box is fanless (I have it mounted vertically) and is slightly warm to the touch. Very low disk noise.
> 
> Of course, it may all collapse in a heap, as I record the Monaco Grand Prix, Indianapolis 500 and the Coca Coca 600 tomorrow. But I plan to report that here and take my licking for not reading thoroughly before I leaped.
> 
> Cheers.


I had tried one of the 2TB Samsung 4k drives and it seemed to work just fine. However if became very "clicky" after recordings filled 10-20% of the drive. I did not like the noise and replaced it with an EVDS that is relatively quiet. I would be interested in your feedback if noise becomes a problem with the EARS.


----------



## Rich

IjustWannaPlay said:


> I had tried one of the 2TB Samsung 4k drives and it seemed to work just fine. However if became very "clicky" after recordings filled 10-20% of the drive. I did not like the noise and replaced it with an EVDS that is relatively quiet. I would be interested in your feedback if noise becomes a problem with the EARS.


Beginning with the TiVos, I've had nothing but problems with the Sammy HDDs. I gave up on them a long time ago. You'll find that the EVDS is a very quiet HDD. Not "relatively" quiet, just plain quiet. Never have tried an EARS, but *CCarncross* just bought one and I look forward to what he says about it.

Rich


----------



## CCarncross

Rich, I ordered the EURS drive, the true replacement for the AV-GP line that previously was the EVDS. The EARS is not the current AV-GP drive from WD.


----------



## Rich

CCarncross said:


> Rich, I ordered the EURS drive, the true replacement for the AV-GP line that previously was the EVDS. The EARS is not the current AV-GP drive from WD.


I know. I just want to see if the EARS runs this time. The last one I bought lasted about five minutes.

Rich


----------



## IjustWannaPlay

rich584 said:


> Beginning with the TiVos, I've had nothing but problems with the Sammy HDDs. I gave up on them a long time ago. You'll find that the EVDS is a very quiet HDD. Not "relatively" quiet, just plain quiet. Never have tried an EARS, but *CCarncross* just bought one and I look forward to what he says about it.
> 
> Rich


Amazon has a few 1.5TB EVDS drives available. I am debating getting one of these since the 2TB drives are history.


----------



## Rich

IjustWannaPlay said:


> Amazon has a few 1.5TB EVDS drives available. I am debating getting one of these since the 2TB drives are history.


Yup, I saw that, considered buying a couple, but I really prefer the 2TB models. There are other sites that still have the 2TB EVDS. Gotta pay for shipping, and if something goes wrong, you might have problems returning them. I have Amazon Prime and don't pay for shipping and they never hassle me if I have to return something because it doesn't work correctly.

The bigger the drive you have, the less problems you'll have.

Rich


----------



## mike5335

IjustWannaPlay said:


> I had tried one of the 2TB Samsung 4k drives and it seemed to work just fine. However if became very "clicky" after recordings filled 10-20% of the drive. I did not like the noise and replaced it with an EVDS that is relatively quiet. I would be interested in your feedback if noise becomes a problem with the EARS.


I still only have a week's worth of recordings on the EARS setup. 97% available. So it will be a while before I get to 10-20% filled. So far, so good. Drive is quiet (inaudible from more than a foot away), the case is barely warm to the touch, and menus are quick. I'll try recording more "junk" and get you a report later. I don't like "clicky" either.


----------



## Larus

I am one of the people who has been waiting for years for the promised new HD DirecTV TiVo DVR. I have decided I've waited long enough to upgrade from my DirecTiVos to high definition and have ordered the whole home version of DirecTV's in-house DVRs with three DVRs and since I ordered the whole home version assume I will get HR-24s. I want to order the largest external drives possible for the units to be here ready to install when the system is installed on 6/18/11.

Can anyone tell me what drive and drive enclosures I should order and the best souce to order them from?


----------



## Rich

Larus said:


> I am one of the people who has been waiting for years for the promised new HD DirecTV TiVo DVR. I have decided I've waited long enough to upgrade from my DirecTiVos to high definition and have ordered the whole home version of DirecTV's in-house DVRs with three DVRs and since I ordered the whole home version assume I will get HR-24s. I want to order the largest external drives possible for the units to be here ready to install when the system is installed on 6/18/11.
> 
> Can anyone tell me what drive and drive enclosures I should order and the best souce to order them from?


Not many recommended choices anymore. All the HRs will support a 2TB HDD, internally or externally. For external enclosures we suggest you use an Antec MX-1 enclosure. It will work on all the HRs and is easy to install. The other option is a Thermaltake docking station, which I prefer. No tools needed. Both come with the eSATA to eSATA jumper cable.

For HDDs, the WD EVDS, EADS, EURS, EARS drives seem to working well on most of the HRs. I have had problems with the EVDS installed externally on the 24-500s. The EVDS drives work perfectly installed internally on the 24-500s. I have no idea what the problem is, but it's there. All the above mentioned drives come with 2TB versions. The larger the drive, the better the HR seems to function.

You can buy the WD drives and both the MX-1 and TT docking stations on amazon.com or many other sites that sell drives and enclosures. The "buy of the week" seems to be the $79 EARS 2TB drive on amazon.com.

I think you made a wise choice by not waiting for the TiVo to come out.

Rich


----------



## Laxguy

Larus said:


> I am one of the people who has been waiting for years for the promised new HD DirecTV TiVo DVR. I have decided I've waited long enough to upgrade from my DirecTiVos to high definition and have ordered the whole home version of DirecTV's in-house DVRs with three DVRs and since I ordered the whole home version assume I will get HR-24s. I want to order the largest external drives possible for the units to be here ready to install when the system is installed on 6/18/11.
> 
> Can anyone tell me what drive and drive enclosures I should order and the best souce to order them from?


Welcome!

I think you'll like the DVRs a lot after an initial 'get used to' the interface. I am in awe of your proposed storage system. 6 additional Terrabytes on top of 3x HR 24s! I have an HR20, which I delete from daily to keep it under 50% full, and one HR24 which is very slowly accumulating films I know I will want to see again someday.... still 75% left on it after six months.


----------



## Rich

Laxguy said:


> Welcome!
> 
> I think you'll like the DVRs a lot after an initial 'get used to' the interface. I am in awe of your proposed storage system. 6 additional Terrabytes on top of 3x HR 24s! I have an HR20, which I delete from daily to keep it under 50% full, and one HR24 which is very slowly accumulating films I know I will want to see again someday.... still 75% left on it after six months.


All these HD movie channels I get and I'm lucky if I can find two or three a week that I want to watch. I gotta do something about that.

Does sound like he's gonna hit the ground running, doesn't it? Good for him. Won't have to go thru the growing pains that the TiVo will undoubtedly have when it's finally introduced. I can't imagine the TiVo being anything that will blow the HRs away.

Rich


----------



## aprilia1k

I'm a newcomer to D* and my first non-Tivo/cable dvr is an HR24-200 (new, with new D* acct). I can't comment on HD Tivo (coming from Tivo IIs, single-tuner, cable), but while I thought I'd never be happy with a non-Tivo i/f, I have to say I am blown away. Perhaps there's a slight edge for series subscribe functionality, but the D* HR24 just rocks it in every other way. I'm having to do too much list maintenance to keep from losing certain titles, etc.. and _have_ to install an ext HD. I had upgraded my Tivo's to huge HDs internally, but seems like the easiest thing here is just throw on an ext. disk to "replace" the internal. 

I've read so much here on the various WD disks (seems that WD is preferred almost exclusively), with EVDS, EURS, EARS and EADS being talked about. I see where EVDS is tried and true but disappearing fast, and that some have had issues with it and the 24s. I see a EURS as a true "A/V" disk, hoping this really means it's engineered for the 24/7 long uptime DVR app. I see many folks getting the EARS recently (currently a few $ less than EURS where I've looked). I'm leaning toward the EURS and the Antec, just curious if there's any advice before I commit. I'm a s/w dev and have had PC labs at home for years, and I personally have had bad luck with W/D failures, but the review stats seem to put me in a minority in that regard (talking about W/D in general - many Caviars, etc.. but moved to Seagate 4+ years ago. I know, there are statistically a lot of bad experiences out there with Seagate; I just happened to have the same stories with W/D). In this case, I have to go with W/D, since I can't recall reading about any success with Seagate and these apparently finicky HR* dvrs. Seems that nearly all HR24 + ext. HD users out there are using W/D. So, I cautiously lean toward spending a few more $ on the EURS as the A/V-inclined drive to use in this case. Thanks for all the great info and cheers,

Stephen


----------



## Rich

aprilia1k said:


> I'm a newcomer to D* and my first non-Tivo/cable dvr is an HR24-200 (new, with new D* acct). I can't comment on HD Tivo (coming from Tivo IIs, single-tuner, cable), but while I thought I'd never be happy with a non-Tivo i/f, I have to say I am blown away. Perhaps there's a slight edge for series subscribe functionality, but the D* HR24 just rocks it in every other way. I'm having to do too much list maintenance to keep from losing certain titles, etc.. and _have_ to install an ext HD. I had upgraded my Tivo's to huge HDs internally, but seems like the easiest thing here is just throw on an ext. disk to "replace" the internal.
> 
> I've read so much here on the various WD disks (seems that WD is preferred almost exclusively), with EVDS, EURS, EARS and EADS being talked about. I see where EVDS is tried and true but disappearing fast, and that some have had issues with it and the 24s. I see a EURS as a true "A/V" disk, hoping this really means it's engineered for the 24/7 long uptime DVR app. I see many folks getting the EARS recently (currently a few $ less than EURS where I've looked). I'm leaning toward the EURS and the Antec, just curious if there's any advice before I commit. I'm a s/w dev and have had PC labs at home for years, and I personally have had bad luck with W/D failures, but the review stats seem to put me in a minority in that regard (talking about W/D in general - many Caviars, etc.. but moved to Seagate 4+ years ago. I know, there are statistically a lot of bad experiences out there with Seagate; I just happened to have the same stories with W/D). In this case, I have to go with W/D, since I can't recall reading about any success with Seagate and these apparently finicky HR* dvrs. Seems that nearly all HR24 + ext. HD users out there are using W/D. So, I cautiously lean toward spending a few more $ on the EURS as the A/V-inclined drive to use in this case. Thanks for all the great info and cheers,
> 
> Stephen


I had numerous problems with WD drives on my TiVos and was reluctant to try them on the HRs, but they are the best choices out there now. The only thing negative I've heard about the EURS is that several members have had issues with getting them recognized by the HRs when used externally. I'm waiting for *CCarncross* to post about his experiences getting his new EURS to work.

Rich


----------



## subeluvr

Is there an in the box, off the shelf solution for an eSATA external drive for HR24s that has proven to work well, be reliable, and is reasonably priced?


----------



## Rich

subeluvr said:


> Is there an in the box, off the shelf solution for an eSATA external drive for HR24s that has proven to work well, be reliable, and is reasonably priced?


Crap shoot finding one. The simplest setup is the Thermaltake docking station, there are no tools required, all you have to do is insert an HDD into the docking station and hook up the eSATA to eSATA jumper cable from your HR to the docking station (which you would have to do with an in-the-box eSATA, also) and you're good to go.

We can recommend several HDDs for the docking station, the WD EVDS, EADS, EARS and EURS. The docking station and HDDs can be purchased at amazon.com and many other sites.

This is a much more reliable setup than an in-the-box eSATA.

Rich


----------



## subeluvr

rich584 said:


> Crap shoot finding one. The simplest setup is the Thermaltake docking station, there are no tools required, all you have to do is insert an HDD into the docking station and hook up the eSATA to eSATA jumper cable from your HR to the docking station (which you would have to do with an in-the-box eSATA, also) and you're good to go.
> 
> We can recommend several HDDs for the docking station, the WD EVDS, EADS, EARS and EURS. The docking station and HDDs can be purchased at amazon.com and many other sites.
> 
> This is a much more reliable setup than an in-the-box eSATA.
> 
> Rich


Thanks Rich...

Can you point me to the Thermaltake docking station and the 1TB drives you like at Amazon?


----------



## P Smith

If you will post your full name, address, credit card info we will be glad to put an order of proper HDD and TT dock for you at Amazon.


----------



## Rich

subeluvr said:


> Thanks Rich...
> 
> Can you point me to the Thermaltake docking station and the 1TB drives you like at Amazon?


Here's a *link* to a TT. And here's a *link* to an EARS HDD.

Rich


----------



## CCarncross

"subeluvr" said:


> Thanks Rich...
> 
> Can you point me to the Thermaltake docking station and the 1TB drives you like at Amazon?


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136496

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153071

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371008


----------



## rsblaski

subeluvr said:


> Thanks Rich...
> 
> Can you point me to the Thermaltake docking station and the 1TB drives you like at Amazon?


For a small increase in price, go with a 2T drive for the obvious increase in capacity.
I just got back from a two week trip and my drives still have over 80% available storage.


----------



## mnassour

rsblaski said:


> For a small increase in price, go with a 2T drive for the obvious increase in capacity.
> I just got back from a two week trip and my drives still have over 80% available storage.


That's a great idea, but if you have an elderly, slow HR20-700 like both of mine, won't those receivers clog up completely once those drives get half to 3/4 full? At one time I had two TTs, each with a one gig in it attached to each of my HR20s. As they filled up Whole Home DVR became more and more erratic.


----------



## subeluvr

Neighbor has a WD My Book AV DVR Expander and he lent it to me. Plug and play... so far so good.

I prefer the dock and a la carte drive solution you are recommending.

Thanks to all for the links.


----------



## geaux tigers

rich584 said:


> Here's a *link* to a TT. And here's a *link* to an EARS HDD.
> 
> Rich


Do the EARS work twith the HR24-500? I was thinking of pairing a 2 TB drive with an Antec MX-1. I currently have a Seagate Showcase 1 TB hooked up to one of my HR25-500s but would lik to expand things even further as the 1 TB does fill up fast and I have all of my DVRs conected through my home network.


----------



## rsblaski

mnassour said:


> That's a great idea, but if you have an elderly, slow HR20-700 like both of mine, won't those receivers clog up completely once those drives get half to 3/4 full? At one time I had two TTs, each with a one gig in it attached to each of my HR20s. As they filled up Whole Home DVR became more and more erratic.


I have an HR20, 21, and 22. Although I don't have a whole lot (in terms of %) on any of them, the first two have a TT+2T drives, and I can't complain about the speed of any of them.
If filling a hard drive does cause a slowdown, you will reach that point a lot quicker with a 1T drive.


----------



## Rich

mnassour said:


> That's a great idea, but if you have an elderly, slow HR20-700 like both of mine, won't those receivers clog up completely once those drives get half to 3/4 full? At one time I had two TTs, each with a one gig in it attached to each of my HR20s. As they filled up Whole Home DVR became more and more erratic.


I've got eight 20-700s and none of them are "elderly" or "slow". All the HRs will slow down or get "bogged" down by external HDDs that are nearly full. The size of the HDD doesn't matter, I've tested all sizes from 750GB to 2TB HDDs and they all react the same when nearly full. What you have in the 20-700 is a DVR that is almost as fast and responsive as the 24s. The trick is to get 2TB drives on them and keep them half to three quarters full. When they start to bog down it's time to delete some content. The HRs were never meant to archive shows.

Rich


----------



## Rich

geaux tigers said:


> Do the EARS work twith the HR24-500? I was thinking of pairing a 2 TB drive with an Antec MX-1. I currently have a Seagate Showcase 1 TB hooked up to one of my HR25-500s but would lik to expand things even further as the 1 TB does fill up fast and I have all of my DVRs conected through my home network.


Haven't tried an EARS with a 500 yet, but I have had problems with the 500s and external drives. If you own them, my advice is to install the HDDs internally. No problems when you do that.

Rich


----------



## geaux tigers

rich584 said:


> Haven't tried an EARS with a 500 yet, but I have had problems with the 500s and external drives. If you own them, my advice is to install the HDDs internally. No problems when you do that.
> 
> Rich


My HR24-500s are leased and that would be my concern.


----------



## Rich

geaux tigers said:


> My HR24-500s are leased and that would be my concern.


Well, you could try it. Nothing to lose. But I had three 500s that did the same thing. Turned in two of them and gave up on the external drive and installed a new EVDS internally. I do own that 500. Might have been an incompatibility with the Thermaltake docking station altho I did try two of them and both times the same things happened. Could have been the EVDS drives, but I tried two of them too.

Try an EARS with an Antec MX-1 enclosure, that might work.

Rich


----------



## am3211

rich584 said:


> Well, you could try it. Nothing to lose. But I had three 500s that did the same thing. Turned in two of them and gave up on the external drive and installed a new EVDS internally. I do own that 500. Might have been an incompatibility with the Thermaltake docking station altho I did try two of them and both times the same things happened. Could have been the EVDS drives, but I tried two of them too.
> 
> Try an EARS with an Antec MX-1 enclosure, that might work.
> 
> Rich


I installed the EARS 2TB with a ThermalTake on one of my HR24's and so far (just a week) no problems.


----------



## geaux tigers

am3211 said:


> I installed the EARS 2TB with a ThermalTake on one of my HR24's and so far (just a week) no problems.


Which model of HR24 do you have? Thanks


----------



## inkahauts

Been running a wd20eurs for over a week now on a hr20-700, and I have had zero issues.


----------



## Rich

am3211 said:


> I installed the EARS 2TB with a ThermalTake on one of my HR24's and so far (just a week) no problems.


Which HR?

Rich


----------



## am3211

rich584 said:


> Which HR?
> 
> Rich


Sorry, my bad, I thought I had included that. It is an HR24-500.


----------



## subeluvr

Neighbor lent me his WD My Book AV DVR Expander 1TB (WDBABT0010HBK-NESN). Worked great on my HR24-100 before it died.

Reformatted the WD on my iMac (FAT32 "ms-dos") and just hooked it up to my new HR24-500 (replacement for my dead HR24-100)

Seems to work except the HR seems to be super sensitive to remote button pushes. As carefully as I push any remote button the HR thinks it was pushed multiple times.

Changed remote to IR and then it worked OK. Changed the remote back to RF and it is working OK.

Other than that the HR24-500 and WD seem to work so far. I'll keep playing with it.


----------



## aprilia1k

I have read that the HR24 (all HR dvrs?) formats to Linux "extended filesystem" (either ext3fs or maybe the newer ext4fs) if the drive's not already that format. I've read elsewhere that it uses FAT32. Did your HR clearly _just work_ with FAT32, or might it have done it's own formatting? I know that many perceived FAT32 shortcomings are really limitations in Microsloth tools, and not problems with the actual filesystem - but fragmentation (I think of recording 2 shows simultaneously as a potential issue) and single-file size limits (4gb iirc?) seem like they could be a problem with FAT32. I'm not an expert in windows filesystems, just wondering what the HRs are doing 

Does anyone know for sure?

It seems clear that it does not do a "low-level" format (detecting & marking bad sectors during format, etc..), as that would require hours and hours at least, and from what I hear most people say it takes "a few minutes" to format a new 1 or 2TB drive (on their HR24s anyway).


----------



## subeluvr

aprilia1k said:


> I have read that the HR24 (all HR dvrs?) formats to Linux "extended filesystem" (either ext3fs or maybe the newer ext4fs) if the drive's not already that format. I've read elsewhere that it uses FAT32. Did your HR clearly _just work_ with FAT32, or might it have done it's own formatting? I know that many perceived FAT32 shortcomings are really limitations in Microsloth tools, and not problems with the actual filesystem - but fragmentation (I think of recording 2 shows simultaneously as a potential issue) and single-file size limits (4gb iirc?) seem like they could be a problem with FAT32. I'm not an expert in windows filesystems, just wondering what the HRs are doing
> 
> Does anyone know for sure?
> 
> It seems clear that it does not do a "low-level" format (detecting & marking bad sectors during format, etc..), as that would require hours and hours at least, and from what I hear most people say it takes "a few minutes" to format a new 1 or 2TB drive (on their HR24s anyway).


Here's what I know...

This WD external came out of the box with one large FAT32 partition.

After being hooked up to a powered down HR and the HR being plugged in the HR formatted(?) the drive and it worked.

After disconnecting the drive and looking at it on my iMac there were three Linux partitions of one sort or another and one size or another (not conversant in Linux).

So, it seems when an HR formats(?) a drive it really repartitions and changes the type of partition... sort of like FDISK for Linux.

I can use my iMac disk utility to erase all the Linux partitions and return the drive to one big FAT32 partition like it was out of the box.

You're right about Windoze... my XP machine didn't want to deal with a 1 TB partition while my iMac didn't care in the least so it is not a FAT32 problem. Besides, it's just easier to use the iMac for this kind of stuff.


----------



## Rich

am3211 said:


> Sorry, my bad, I thought I had included that. It is an HR24-500.


Huh. Maybe it was the EVDS. I'm confused, the EVDS is made for DVRs and the EARS isn't. I dunno what to think.....:nono2:

Rich


----------



## GregLee

rich584 said:


> Enough to drive you crazy, isn't it?


Not really. I was already crazy.


----------



## P Smith

aprilia1k said:


> I have read that the HR24 (all HR dvrs?) formats to Linux "extended filesystem" (either ext3fs or maybe the newer ext4fs) if the drive's not already that format. I've read elsewhere that it uses FAT32. Did your HR clearly _just work_ with FAT32, or might it have done it's own formatting? I know that many perceived FAT32 shortcomings are really limitations in Microsloth tools, and not problems with the actual filesystem - but fragmentation (I think of recording 2 shows simultaneously as a potential issue) and single-file size limits (4gb iirc?) seem like they could be a problem with FAT32. I'm not an expert in windows filesystems, just wondering what the HRs are doing
> *
> Does anyone know for sure*?
> 
> It seems clear that it does not do a "low-level" format (detecting & marking bad sectors during format, etc..), as that would require hours and hours at least, and from what I hear most people say it takes "a few minutes" to format a new 1 or 2TB drive (on their HR24s anyway).


Yes, that well known fact what mentioned many times here.

[Usually newcomers don't bother to read forums, just posting own minds...]


----------



## subeluvr

P Smith said:


> [Usually newcomers don't bother to read forums, just posting own minds...]


Sometimes it's just plain painful to wade through 50 pages looking for what you need and those 50 pages are just what the SEARCH found for you.

Concise and up to date stickies really help those who are new to the game or the forum and patience with those who need a little help or guidance isn't really that time consuming... after all, we were all newbies once.


----------



## am3211

rich584 said:


> Huh. Maybe it was the EVDS. I'm confused, the EVDS is made for DVRs and the EARS isn't. I dunno what to think.....:nono2:
> 
> Rich


I am not sure what to think either. I bought the EARS because I needed a 2TB drive for my PC Backups and it was cheap($79.99 and free shipping from Newegg). I decide to try it on the HR24-500 after reading the discussions here about the EVDS,the EURS and the EARS knowing that if it didn't work I could use it on the PC for a backup drive.

I am not doing much recording on that particularly DVR since it is primarily for Network shows and there are not a ton of them right now. We'll see what happens down the road, if it's going to fail I need it to do so before the new fall season.


----------



## Rich

am3211 said:


> I am not sure what to think either. I bought the EARS because I needed a 2TB drive for my PC Backups and it was cheap($79.99 and free shipping from Newegg). I decide to try it on the HR24-500 after reading the discussions here about the EVDS,the EURS and the EARS knowing that if it didn't work I could use it on the PC for a backup drive.
> 
> I am not doing much recording on that particularly DVR since it is primarily for Network shows and there are not a ton of them right now. We'll see what happens down the road, if it's going to fail I need it to do so before the new fall season.


After buying an EARS when they first came out and having it fail to work immediately, I just purchased the latest one to make sure that the changes D* made in their firmware would allow them to work now. Seems to be working fine. We should get at least three years out of them. I hope.

Rich


----------



## SpeedracerII

Long time lurker, I finally got rid of our old SD DirecTiVo, getting way too sick of the delays and dumbed down HD DirecTiVo so I upgraded to 2 HR 24's and one H24. So glad I did, should have done it sooner, but that is another thread.

I knew I wanted more recording space so I had already planned to go with an external HDD. I admit I didn't read all 50+ pages of this 2 year old thread. Most people on here are either going with the Antec MX-1 or the ThermalTake slot loaded. I got all set to order the Antec MX-1 (I've built PCs with Antec cases and liked them) but as I was looking through the reviews it seems some had problems with the power supply connector being loose and fan failures. This older unit also does not support USB 3 so if I ever wanted to use this on my PC I'd have to settle for USB 2.

Just then this new Rosewill enclosure came up for sale. It looked nice, had USB 3, and a fan. The fan is an 80mm fan with a speed adjustable dial on the back. I ordered two. I also got two of the WD10EVDS 1TB drives. While this enclosure supports up to 3TB drives I decided to go with the tried and true HD and two 1TB drives between two HR24's should be enough for us.

I can't post a link since I don't have 5 posts, but you can easily find it on Newegg.

The enclosure looks nice. (I hope the pictures loaded). It has a silver Aluminum body which serves as a heat sink. Hard to say how well the HDD heat is conducted to the body. The top has a black perforated lid that is on a hinge and opens easily. The fan is right there on top and looks very easy to replace if needed. The power supply is a standard 12v dc connector that is compatable with any of the aftermarket power supplies. The power cord is a decent length. It comes with a eSATA and USB 3 cable, 3 screws (one extra), and the vertical stand. It does not have any feet if you want to install it horizontal. The disk installs in a plastic tray with two of the supplies screws. While it is plastic it feels sturdy. The tray slides in and clicks into place. It makes the power and SATA (it support SATA I and II) connections as it slides in. Take maybe 5 minutes. Once powered the disk spins up, a blue LED lights, and the fan starts. The fan can be adjusted by the dial in the back. At high the fan is moving a lot of air. It is fairly quiet. On one of the two I bought the filter on the inside of the case was rubbing against the fan blades. I just ripped it out. Not sure it is really needed but I didn't want the friction or noise it created. 

I power down the HR24, mated the eSATA cable, powered up the Rosewill, then the HR24 and it booted and formatted the drive with no problems. Didn't take long at all. The receiver downloaded the newest software and then I was back to watching DirecTv.

I installed the first on my HR24-100. The second will go on an HR24-200 but I'm not going to install that until I get my season passes moved over and watch the shows recorded.

I think the Rosewill looks like a nice enclosure. It is now $60 on Newegg ($5 less than what I paid just a week ago). I was hoping that using en external HDD it would make the receiver more reliable. I'm not sure that will be the case since the interla HDD does not seem to power down. I was also hoping that if I ever needed a receiver swap out I could still have all my old recordings on the external HDD. Sadly that does not seem to be the case. Oh well, I'll have to settle for 2TB of HD storage.

Edit: I installed the 2nd unit on my HR24-200 and it also worked without a hitch. The blue LED is amazingly bright in a bedroom. Inside the lid is a plastic prisim that takes the LED and projects it out the front. A piece of black electrical tape on this prisim practically eliminates the LED light but you can open the lid if you need to check on it. Still a good enclosure.


----------



## Rich

SpeedracerII said:


> Long time lurker, I finally got rid of our old SD DirecTiVo, getting way too sick of the delays and dumbed down HD DirecTiVo so I upgraded to 2 HR 24's and one H24. So glad I did, should have done it sooner, but that is another thread.
> 
> I knew I wanted more recording space so I had already planned to go with an external HDD. I admit I didn't read all 50+ pages of this 2 year old thread. Most people on here are either going with the Antec MX-1 or the ThermalTake slot loaded. I got all set to order the Antec MX-1 (I've built PCs with Antec cases and liked them) but as I was looking through the reviews it seems some had problems with the power supply connector being loose and fan failures. This older unit also does not support USB 3 so if I ever wanted to use this on my PC I'd have to settle for USB 2.
> 
> Just then this new Rosewill enclosure came up for sale. It looked nice, had USB 3, and a fan. The fan is an 80mm fan with a speed adjustable dial on the back. I ordered two. I also got two of the WD10EVDS 1TB drives. While this enclosure supports up to 3TB drives I decided to go with the tried and true HD and two 1TB drives between two HR24's should be enough for us.
> 
> I can't post a link since I don't have 5 posts, but you can easily find it on Newegg.
> 
> The enclosure looks nice. (I hope the pictures loaded). It has a silver Aluminum body which serves as a heat sink. Hard to say how well the HDD heat is conducted to the body. The top has a black perforated lid that is on a hinge and opens easily. The fan is right there on top and looks very easy to replace if needed. The power supply is a standard 12v dc connector that is compatable with any of the aftermarket power supplies. The power cord is a decent length. It comes with a eSATA and USB 3 cable, 3 screws (one extra), and the vertical stand. It does not have any feet if you want to install it horizontal. The disk installs in a plastic tray with two of the supplies screws. While it is plastic it feels sturdy. The tray slides in and clicks into place. It makes the power and SATA (it support SATA I and II) connections as it slides in. Take maybe 5 minutes. Once powered the disk spins up, a blue LED lights, and the fan starts. The fan can be adjusted by the dial in the back. At high the fan is moving a lot of air. It is fairly quiet. On one of the two I bought the filter on the inside of the case was rubbing against the fan blades. I just ripped it out. Not sure it is really needed but I didn't want the friction or noise it created.
> 
> I power down the HR24, mated the eSATA cable, powered up the Rosewill, then the HR24 and it booted and formatted the drive with no problems. Didn't take long at all. The receiver downloaded the newest software and then I was back to watching DirecTv.
> 
> I installed the first on my HR24-100. The second will go on an HR24-200 but I'm not going to install that until I get my season passes moved over and watch the shows recorded.
> 
> I think the Rosewill looks like a nice enclosure. It is now $60 on Newegg ($5 less than what I paid just a week ago). I was hoping that using en external HDD it would make the receiver more reliable. I'm not sure that will be the case since the interla HDD does not seem to power down. I was also hoping that if I ever needed a receiver swap out I could still have all my old recordings on the external HDD. Sadly that does not seem to be the case. Oh well, I'll have to settle for 2TB of HD storage.


Some of the members do use the Rosewill enclosures and I don't remember any negative posts about them. Seems like a good alternative to the MX-1 and TT docking stations. Weaknees used to sell them with HDDs in them, don't know if they still do.

Rich


----------



## Tubaman-Z

All,

A couple of years ago when I got my HR20-100 I soon after purchased a Seagate FAP 750 GB. It worked well for about 2 years, died, and was replaced under warranty. The replacement worked for about 18 months and then died. With much frustration I started poking around on this thread to find the current best advised combination of case and drive. One of the suggestions that intrigued me (sorry - contributor was not noted by me) was to use the Antex MX-1 with the FAP drive and see if that worked. So a quick trip to Amazon, a couple of days shipping wait, 20 minutes of deconstruct and reconstruct and yes, my 750 drive is happily spinning again. Worst case was it was really dead and I would have to buy a new (larger) drive. Best case was realized.

Net: My thanks to those who have positively contributed to this lengthy discussion over the years. You've provided a valuable resource. If/when this drive dies I'll already have the case I need.

P.S. This process also encouraged some....optimizing of my series passes. Better usage of the various keywords (TTITLE, AALL, AANY, CCHAN) got me well within the 50 limit.


----------



## CCarncross

Now that you have it working again, I highly recommend on replacing it with a shiny new drive soon, dont forget its several years old and you'll want to replace it before it fails if you dont want to lose your shows.


----------



## P Smith

That's what is invented - S.M.A.R.T., check the table on regular basis and you'll know what current status of your drive(s). And should you worried or not ...


----------



## cigar95

P Smith said:


> That's what is invented - S.M.A.R.T., check the table on regular basis and you'll know what current status of your drive(s). And should you worried or not ...


What's the best way to check SMART status without removing the HDD from the enclosure? (Windows/Mac/Unix, take your pick, eSATA or USB interface, also take your pick)

Thanks.


----------



## P Smith

Connect it to PC by USB or eSATA cable and run any program what you like (my choice is Victoria).


----------



## sticketfan

how come i unplugged my wd 1tb external hard drive the my dvr model from my hr20-100(getting rid of the 100) and when i plug it into another receiver it seems like it fries it and i cant get the new receiver to turn on! dont get it


----------



## P Smith

Connect to PC and clean/format it; or much better - run Victoria (Windows) or MHDD (self bootable CD) test and cleaning. You 'll know status of the drive - it could have problem(s).


----------



## sticketfan

may be a dumb question but how do i hook the external hard drive to my computer the hard drive only has a sata cable connection? thanks for the quick input


----------



## sticketfan

found my own answer my wife just found a sata port on her laptop so i just plug it in there


----------



## P Smith

If your PC doesn't have eSATA connector - a) you could buy PCI/PCIe/Expressport one, b) desktop: open a cover, use I-L (eSATA-SATA) cable, connect to any free SATA connector on MB.
If you have eSATA port on the PC - just use your existing cable.


----------



## phil.

i have a seagate free agent 750gb external drive i've been using with my hr22 for a few years. recently got an additional hr24, but can't seem to get the hr24 to see the external drive. i tried the drive back on the hr22 and it works fine so i'm assuming there's nothing wrong with the drive, cables, etc. when connecting to the hr24, i'm expecting to see the drive reformatted, right? i'm not expecting to see the existing recordings on there. i recorded a single show on the hr24 internal drive and despite numerous attempts, i keep seeing the same single recording so i'm on the presumption that the external drive isn't seen by the hr24. last thing i tried last night was connecting to my imac and using disk utility to erase the drive in hopes the hr24 would try to reformat the drive again, but same thing. any ideas?


----------



## P Smith

Same idea - eliminate 'middle man' ie SATA chip inside of your enclosure; try to connect the drive directly to eSATA port of HR24.


----------



## Alan Gordon

I have Antec MX-1 enclosure. It has been unhooked from my HD-DVR for a month or so now. Today I was planning on hooking it back up, but the power cord (the part that plugs into the wall, not the part that hooks into the back of the enclosure) came unattached from the rest of the power adapter, and fell in with some other power cords. I don't want to plug the wrong one in, so can someone with an MX-1 enclosure read the writing on the plug for me?!

Thanks!
~Alan


----------



## rsblaski

Alan Gordon said:


> I have Antec MX-1 enclosure. It has been unhooked from my HD-DVR for a month or so now. Today I was planning on hooking it back up, but the power cord (the part that plugs into the wall, not the part that hooks into the back of the enclosure) came unattached from the rest of the power adapter, and fell in with some other power cords. I don't want to plug the wrong one in, so can someone with an MX-1 enclosure read the writing on the plug for me?!
> 
> Thanks!
> ~Alan


The block reads: 
OPTI
switching adapter
Model: PA-225

and then some other stuff.

Is this enough for what you need?
If not, I can add more info.
Rick


----------



## P Smith

Add info about voltage and current values, what size/type of low voltage connector.


----------



## aprilia1k

Quote:
Originally Posted by aprilia1k View Post
I have read that the HR24 (all HR dvrs?) formats to Linux "extended filesystem" (either ext3fs or maybe the newer ext4fs) if the drive's not already that format. I've read elsewhere that it uses FAT32. Did your HR clearly just work with FAT32, or might it have done it's own formatting? I know that many perceived FAT32 shortcomings are really limitations in Microsloth tools, and not problems with the actual filesystem - but fragmentation (I think of recording 2 shows simultaneously as a potential issue) and single-file size limits (4gb iirc?) seem like they could be a problem with FAT32. I'm not an expert in windows filesystems, just wondering what the HRs are doing

Does anyone know for sure?

It seems clear that it does not do a "low-level" format (detecting & marking bad sectors during format, etc..), as that would require hours and hours at least, and from what I hear most people say it takes "a few minutes" to format a new 1 or 2TB drive (on their HR24s anyway).

P Smith:
"Yes, that well known fact what mentioned many times here."

[Usually newcomers don't bother to read forums, just posting own minds...]

P Smith, it is clear that english is not your first language, and that you are somewhat hostile. You replied without really understanding my post at all. I _have_ read the forums ALOT, and have found contradictory information on which FS is used by the HRs. Why not just let it go, rather than scolding people on a whim? Apologies if I was "just posting own mind...". I know it's audacious of anyone else to have a thought in their head, besides yourself eh? Smile, I jest. ;-)
Still, I hope this isn't your only source of validation man, though that'd explain the pontification and puffery.

i read this entire thread and several others. I am asking a question. It is precisely that I have read, in these forums, different and contradictory information about the format. Does anyone know which filesystem is used in the HRs? Is it a linux extXfs filesystem, or is it for certain FAT? P Smith, please don't switch on the flamethrower - there are plenty of folks who are friendly and just like to share - I don't need another scolding reply in criticism. If no one does know for certain, that's ok. I am not using an external yet. When I get to it, I guess I will find out for myself.

Thanks friends. Sorry for the sparks, I've just read so many posts by ... and have seen a real pattern, and guess I'm empathizing with many others at this point. Ciao.

Oh - Rick, I thought that "model PA-225" was quite adequate. 
Alan - this should be a link to a picture of the plug on the PA-225: http://azsurplus.com/images/OPTI_PA-225_4.jpg

It is a switching supply, 5VDC and 12VDC 4 pin. Found one for sale.
Seems that "Antec" and "Vantec" may have some affiliation, as the similar names might imply, heh.

Manufacturer: OPTI / Vantecusa
Model Number: PA-225 , PA225

Input Voltage: 100-240VAC ~ 0.8A 50/60Hz, 50-80VA 
Output: Dual Voltage
+5V == 2A
+12 == 2A 
Connector: 4 Pin 9mm mini Din (SVideo Type)

Pin 1: 5v DC
Pin 2: 12v DC
Pin 3: Ground
Pin 4: Ground

This is the same power adapter, for sale from some surplus site:

http://azsurplus.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_6&products_id=4558


----------



## P Smith

It is XFS file system with real-time extension.


----------



## subeluvr

As P. Smith posted... _It is EXT3+XFS file system with real-time extension_

The HR24 will prepare an unformatted and unpartitioned drive or it will repartition a FAT32 drive.

I know for a fact and have seen with my own eyes a WD AVR Extender eSATA 1TB drive that comes out of the box partitioned and formatted FAT32 repartitioned by an HR24-500 to EXT3+XFS file system.

I know for a fact and have seen with my own eyes an unpartitioned and unformatted WD10EURS drive in a TT dock partitioned by an HR24-500 to EXT3+XFS file system.


----------



## P Smith

We knew that for last couple years and the fact posted many times ...


----------



## subeluvr

P Smith said:


> We knew that for last couple years and the fact posted many times ...


The WE apparently didn't include Aprilia1k... he/she asked and I replied.


----------



## Alan Gordon

rsblaski said:


> The block reads:
> OPTI
> switching adapter
> Model: PA-225
> 
> and then some other stuff.
> 
> Is this enough for what you need?
> If not, I can add more info.


Yeah, I know which one's the block. I need to know what writing the power cord has (in other words, what does the writing on the plug say?).

~Alan


----------



## rsblaski

Alan Gordon said:


> Yeah, I know which one's the block. I need to know what writing the power cord has (in other words, what does the writing on the plug say?).
> 
> ~Alan


Between the prongs, it has 
KENIC
ker-01
E155178

Hope this helps.
Rick


----------



## Alan Gordon

"rsblaski" said:


> Between the prongs, it has
> KENIC
> ker-01
> E155178
> 
> Hope this helps.
> Rick


Yep... sorta.... LOL!!!

Mine has KENIC
KE-01
E155176

Must be an older model.

~Alan


----------



## wijamie

I just ordered a WD 2TB EARS with an MX-1 for my HR 20-100. Just a couple questions for clarification...

From everything I've read, the newest DirecTV firmware would make this drive fully compatible?

Do I need to put a jumper on this drive?

Thanks in advance for your help...


----------



## Rich

wijamie said:


> I just ordered a WD 2TB EARS with an MX-1 for my HR 20-100. Just a couple questions for clarification...
> 
> From everything I've read, the newest DirecTV firmware would make this drive fully compatible?
> 
> Do I need to put a jumper on this drive?
> 
> Thanks in advance for your help...


Should work without jumpers. Does work without jumpers on my 20-700s, but I don't know a thing about the 20-100s.

All you can do is try. If it doesn't work put a jumper between the 5&6 pins on the HDD.

If that doesn't work, return the HDD and get another model.

Rich


----------



## kymikes

wijamie said:


> I just ordered a WD 2TB EARS with an MX-1 for my HR 20-100. Just a couple questions for clarification...
> 
> From everything I've read, the newest DirecTV firmware would make this drive fully compatible?
> 
> Do I need to put a jumper on this drive?
> 
> Thanks in advance for your help...


That is what I have on an HR21-700. Works great w/o jumpers and is totally quiet. Have fun.


----------



## Rich

kymikes said:


> That is what I have on an HR21-700. Works great w/o jumpers and is totally quiet. Have fun.


I wish more people would take advantage of the eSATA function. It does improve the viewing experience and allows for backups without clogging the smaller stock drives. Pretty cheap now. Yet another advantage.

Rich


----------



## wijamie

Thanks everyone,

I did have an ESata 1 TB Cavalry external attached to it for about 2 and 1/2 years with no problems, but it just died.

Pretty great situation replacing it, though. I had a 3-year SquareTrade warranty (about $15 at the time) and they sent me an Amazon gift card code for a replacement within a week of filing the claim. I was able to get the new WD/MX-1 combo for virtually nothing as a replacement. It's my first experience with SquareTrade, but after this I'd highly recommend it.


----------



## HDJulie

wijamie said:


> I just ordered a WD 2TB EARS with an MX-1 for my HR 20-100. Just a couple questions for clarification...
> 
> From everything I've read, the newest DirecTV firmware would make this drive fully compatible?
> 
> Do I need to put a jumper on this drive?
> 
> Thanks in advance for your help...


I'm thinking about putting the same thing in my HR20-700. This should not be a problem, right?


----------



## Rich

HDJulie said:


> I'm thinking about putting the same thing in my HR20-700. This should not be a problem, right?


Yup, it will work well with the 20-700. My personal preference for an external device is the Thermaltake docking station, it's easier to install (no tools needed) and is very quiet. Here's a *link*.

The docking station is perfect for a bedroom. And it's cheaper than an MX-1. The MX-1 is a good choice too.

Rich


----------



## HDJulie

rich584 said:


> Yup, it will work well with the 20-700. My personal preference for an external device is the Thermaltake docking station, it's easier to install (no tools needed) and is very quiet. Here's a *link*.
> 
> The docking station is perfect for a bedroom. And it's cheaper than an MX-1. The MX-1 is a good choice too.
> 
> Rich


I saw the Newegg link for the Thermaltake but had seen so many posts about teh MX-1 that I was going to go with it. I might change to the Thermaltake since it would save $15.


----------



## Rich

HDJulie said:


> I saw the Newegg link for the Thermaltake but had seen so many posts about teh MX-1 that I was going to go with it. I might change to the Thermaltake since it would save $15.


The MX-1 was the weapon of choice for a long time. Then we tried the TT docking stations and some of us have been using them with good results. I have no complaints about the TTs. I have some problems with the MX-1s, they tend to be a bit noisy and have a huge fan inside them that turns the thing into a small vacuum cleaner. Aside from those rather minor complaints (the same things can be said of the Rosewill enclosures too, I think), the MX-1 is a good, solid enclosure and should work for years.

Rich


----------



## rsblaski

HDJulie said:


> I saw the Newegg link for the Thermaltake but had seen so many posts about teh MX-1 that I was going to go with it. I might change to the Thermaltake since it would save $15.


My first external drive was in an MX-1 which at the time was the most poplular and recommended enclosure. After I decided to add another external, the TT was being mentioned more and more on this forum so I decided to go with that. I was so happy with the TT because of ease of installation that when the disk in the MX-1 went bad, I decided to go with another TT. I keep the MX-1 on a shelf just in case I need a back up if one of the TTs goes bad. (Or if I ever need more storage on my computer.)


----------



## subeluvr

If anyone has problems with a TT dock try a different eSATA cable.

Monoprice has a better quality and not SO rigid eSATA cable for only $2.84

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10226&cs_id=1022603&p_id=5570&seq=1&format=2


----------



## Rich

subeluvr said:


> If anyone has problems with a TT dock try a different eSATA cable.
> 
> Monoprice has a better quality and not SO rigid eSATA cable for only $2.84
> 
> http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10226&cs_id=1022603&p_id=5570&seq=1&format=2


With all the external devices I've had over the years, I've never had a bad eSATA to eSATA cable, but that one looks like a winner should you get one.

Rich


----------



## ticmxman

wijamie said:


> I just ordered a WD 2TB EARS with an MX-1 for my HR 20-100. Just a couple questions for clarification...
> 
> From everything I've read, the newest DirecTV firmware would make this drive fully compatible?
> 
> Do I need to put a jumper on this drive?
> 
> Thanks in advance for your help...


I picked up a 1TB WD EARS at Fry's today for $65 will it work in my MX-1 and my new HR24-100?


----------



## subeluvr

rich584 said:


> With all the external devices I've had over the years, I've never had a bad eSATA to eSATA cable, but that one looks like a winner should you get one.
> 
> Rich


With all the external devices I've had over the years and ALL the external devices I've sold and installed and repaired and replaced, I've learned that the el cheapo really rigid cables make life on the device connectors really difficult and can make for intermittent connections.

If your eSATA cable is rigid enough to pick up your external device and suspend it in mid air look at the cable from Monoprice and curiously the one that comes with the the WD AVR Expanders (and WD has _some_  experience with external devices) are flexible and $2.84 is cheap insurance 

And while we're discussing cables the latest rev 24AWG CL2 High Speed HDMI Cables can loosen a TV or DVR HDMI connector pretty quick.










... and so there are now _port savers_ to protect HDMI connectors in devices which seems kinda dumb... get a high quality hi-speed HDMI cable and them connect it through a 6" lower quality cable?










http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10419&cs_id=1041913&p_id=8062&seq=1&format=2


----------



## inkahauts

rich584 said:


> With all the external devices I've had over the years, I've never had a bad eSATA to eSATA cable, but that one looks like a winner should you get one.
> 
> Rich


Funny, I have had two bad esata cables in the last 2 years.. Go figure...

Generally, I don't have issues with cables though. I think it was a random fluke, but it can happen...


----------



## Rich

ticmxman said:


> I picked up a 1TB WD EARS at Fry's today for $65 will it work in my MX-1 and my new HR24-100?


Good question. I've got a 100, but I haven't put an external on it. The wife's using it and if she doesn't complain about the lack of capacity I'm not gonna take a chance on trying. First 100 HR that I've ever had work this long and I'm just gonna leave it alone as long as I can.

Do let us know how you make out with it. I've had no problems with externals and the one 24-200 that I had, but I've had plenty of problems with my 24-500s. I had to put the large HDD internally, wouldn't work with an external device. I do own it. Works perfectly with the 2TB internally.

For about $15 more, you could have gotten a 2TB EARS on Amazon.

Rich


----------



## Rich

subeluvr said:


> With all the external devices I've had over the years and ALL the external devices I've sold and installed and repaired and replaced, I've learned that the el cheapo really rigid cables make life on the device connectors really difficult and can make for intermittent connections.


I've just used the cables that came with the external devices. Never had a problem.



> If your eSATA cable is rigid enough to pick up your external device and suspend it in mid air look at the cable from Monoprice and curiously the one that comes with the the WD AVR Expanders (and WD has _some_  experience with external devices) are flexible and $2.84 is cheap insurance


I've never seen a jumper cable that inflexible.



> And while we're discussing cables the latest rev 24AWG CL2 High Speed HDMI Cables can loosen a TV or DVR HDMI connector pretty quick.


I bought a bunch of "F" couplers that relieve stress very well.



> ... and so there are now _port savers_ to protect HDMI connectors in devices which seems kinda dumb... get a high quality hi-speed HDMI cable and them connect it through a 6" lower quality cable?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10419&cs_id=1041913&p_id=8062&seq=1&format=2


What would you screw that into? I don't remember ever seeing a way to do that.

Rich


----------



## Rich

inkahauts said:


> Funny, I have had two bad esata cables in the last 2 years.. Go figure...


Huh. I've still got the cables from those crappy Cavalry eSATAs and the cables still work well. Where'd you get the bad ones?



> Generally, I don't have issues with cables though. I think it was a random fluke, but it can happen...


Yup, I wasn't implying anything, just commenting on the fact that I've never had a bad one. And with my luck...

Rich


----------



## ticmxman

ticmxman said:


> I picked up a 1TB WD EARS at Fry's today for $65 will it work in my MX-1 and my new HR24-100?





rich584 said:


> Good question. I've got a 100, but I haven't put an external on it. The wife's using it and if she doesn't complain about the lack of capacity I'm not gonna take a chance on trying. First 100 HR that I've ever had work this long and I'm just gonna leave it alone as long as I can.
> 
> Do let us know how you make out with it. I've had no problems with externals and the one 24-200 that I had, but I've had plenty of problems with my 24-500s. I had to put the large HDD internally, wouldn't work with an external device. I do own it. Works perfectly with the 2TB internally.
> 
> For about $15 more, you could have gotten a 2TB EARS on Amazon.
> 
> Rich


It was a bit of a impulse purchase and after doing more research I'm not sure the EARS long term reliability in a DVR is something I want to risk. I may return it. Any recomendations? I still working my way thru this thread, lots of good information.


----------



## Rich

ticmxman said:


> It was a bit of a impulse purchase and after doing more research I'm not sure the EARS long term reliability in a DVR is something I want to risk. I may return it. Any recomendations? I still working my way thru this thread, lots of good information.


Lots of out of date info too. If you want an HDD that's made specifically for DVRs, the EURS WD HDD is the latest one. Some folks have had problems getting the HRs to recognize them, tho. I have a couple of WD EADS HDDs in my owned 20-700s and they've been very reliable. They aren't built with DVRs in mind, just as the EARS aren't. For the price, you can't beat the EARS.

How reliable will they be in the long run? Only way to know that is to wait a couple years and see if they are still working properly. I know I have one EARS used externally and I might have one internally in one of my other owned 20-700s. Kinda lost track of what's in what. Should have marked them all.

Another really good HDD is the WD EVDS line. They are made for DVRs and really work quite well, but they have stopped production of them and the EURS has taken it's place. If you can find an EVDS at a decent price somewhere, you might consider buying it.

I'd recommend going for the larger 2TB HDDs, they don't cost a lot more than the 1TBs and will serve you better. Any HDD that passes 20-30% available capacity is probably gonna bog down your HR to some extent. The closer you get to full, the worse it gets. A Menu Restart will usually get the HR running quicker again, but you'll find yourself restarting it more frequently. I keep my 2TBs at 50-60% full and have no bogging down of my HRs. This week I'll get another 2TB EARS to replace a really noisy Seagate 1.5TB in an external device. That will give me 20TBs of capacity. I wouldn't recommend anything but a WD HDD at this time.

Rich


----------



## ticmxman

rich584 said:


> Lots of out of date info too. If you want an HDD that's made specifically for DVRs, the EURS WD HDD is the latest one. Some folks have had problems getting the HRs to recognize them, tho. I have a couple of WD EADS HDDs in my owned 20-700s and they've been very reliable. They aren't built with DVRs in mind, just as the EARS aren't. For the price, you can't beat the EARS.
> 
> How reliable will they be in the long run? Only way to know that is to wait a couple years and see if they are still working properly. I know I have one EARS used externally and I might have one internally in one of my other owned 20-700s. Kinda lost track of what's in what. Should have marked them all.
> 
> Another really good HDD is the WD EVDS line. They are made for DVRs and really work quite well, but they have stopped production of them and the EURS has taken it's place. If you can find an EVDS at a decent price somewhere, you might consider buying it.
> 
> I'd recommend going for the larger 2TB HDDs, they don't cost a lot more than the 1TBs and will serve you better. Any HDD that passes 20-30% available capacity is probably gonna bog down your HR to some extent. The closer you get to full, the worse it gets. A Menu Restart will usually get the HR running quicker again, but you'll find yourself restarting it more frequently. I keep my 2TBs at 50-60% full and have no bogging down of my HRs. This week I'll get another 2TB EARS to replace a really noisy Seagate 1.5TB in an external device. That will give me 20TBs of capacity. I wouldn't recommend anything but a WD HDD at this time.
> 
> Rich


Rich, Thanks for the for the information just what I was looking for.
T


----------



## rsblaski

subeluvr said:


> If anyone has problems with a TT dock try a different eSATA cable.
> 
> Monoprice has a better quality and not SO rigid eSATA cable for only $2.84
> 
> http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10226&cs_id=1022603&p_id=5570&seq=1&format=2


Another nice thing about the Monoprice cables is that they come in different colors. Makes tracing them a little easier if you only have minimal space behind your a/v cabinet.


----------



## CCarncross

ticmxman said:


> It was a bit of a impulse purchase and after doing more research I'm not sure the EARS long term reliability in a DVR is something I want to risk. I may return it. Any recomendations? I still working my way thru this thread, lots of good information.


The EURS is meant for 24/7 av use, like a dvr....you may want to return your EARS and get the EURS...I recently bought one and its working flawlessly.


----------



## subeluvr

CCarncross said:


> The EURS is meant for 24/7 av use, like a dvr....you may want to return your EARS and get the EURS...I recently bought one and its working flawlessly.


Agree with CCarncross...

I've got a WD10EURS in a TT dock that works flawlessly with an HR24-500 and also tested OK on an HR24-100 once I swapped the TT eSATA cable for a different one.

The WD10EURS is quiet.


----------



## Rich

ticmxman said:


> Rich, Thanks for the for the information just what I was looking for.
> T


You're welcome. Feel free to PM me with any questions.

Rich


----------



## Rich

subeluvr said:


> Agree with CCarncross...
> 
> I've got a WD10EURS in a TT dock that works flawlessly with an HR24-500 and also tested OK on an HR24-100 once I swapped the TT eSATA cable for a different one.
> 
> The WD10EURS is quiet.


Didn't you have a problem with a previous EURS?

Rich


----------



## subeluvr

rich584 said:


> Didn't you have a problem with a previous EURS?
> 
> Rich


Intermittent recognition of the external device by my HR24-500... it turned out to be the TT cable.


----------



## Laxguy

subeluvr said:


> Agree with CCarncross...
> 
> I've got a WD10EURS in a TT dock that works flawlessly with an HR24-500 and also tested OK on an HR24-100 once I swapped the TT eSATA cable for a different one.
> 
> The WD10EURS is quiet.


OK, you *made* me order one. B+H had the best price due to free shipping, today at least! 
Thanks.


----------



## subeluvr

Laxguy said:


> OK, you *made* me order one. B+H had the best price due to free shipping, today at least!
> Thanks.


Got mine @ Newegg... $64.99 with free shipping that only took two days and a liberal return policy.

Newegg also has a deal on the TT dock... $33.97 plus $10 rebate and FREE shipping.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153071


----------



## ticmxman

rich584 said:


> Lots of out of date info too. If you want an HDD that's made specifically for DVRs, the EURS WD HDD is the latest one. Some folks have had problems getting the HRs to recognize them, tho. I have a couple of WD EADS HDDs in my owned 20-700s and they've been very reliable. They aren't built with DVRs in mind, just as the EARS aren't. For the price, you can't beat the EARS.
> 
> How reliable will they be in the long run? Only way to know that is to wait a couple years and see if they are still working properly. I know I have one EARS used externally and I might have one internally in one of my other owned 20-700s. Kinda lost track of what's in what. Should have marked them all.
> 
> Another really good HDD is the WD EVDS line. They are made for DVRs and really work quite well, but they have stopped production of them and the EURS has taken it's place. If you can find an EVDS at a decent price somewhere, you might consider buying it.
> 
> I'd recommend going for the larger 2TB HDDs, they don't cost a lot more than the 1TBs and will serve you better. Any HDD that passes 20-30% available capacity is probably gonna bog down your HR to some extent. The closer you get to full, the worse it gets. A Menu Restart will usually get the HR running quicker again, but you'll find yourself restarting it more frequently. I keep my 2TBs at 50-60% full and have no bogging down of my HRs. This week I'll get another 2TB EARS to replace a really noisy Seagate 1.5TB in an external device. That will give me 20TBs of capacity. I wouldn't recommend anything but a WD HDD at this time.
> 
> Rich


I carried the WD EARS back and got a WD 1.5TB EVDS. I'll let you know how it does when I have a chance to put it in my MX-1.


----------



## HDJulie

ticmxman said:


> I carried the WD EARS back and got a WD 1.5TB EVDS. I'll let you know how it does when I have a chance to put it in my MX-1.


Well, shoot, now I'm all nervous about the EARS I have coming this week. Fortunately, it's for an experiment with my HR20-700 which records the lowest priority of our shows.


----------



## Rich

ticmxman said:


> I carried the WD EARS back and got a WD 1.5TB EVDS. I'll let you know how it does when I have a chance to put it in my MX-1.


That's just a good HDD. It should work perfectly. Good choice. Did they have the 2TB version in stock? If so, how much?

Rich


----------



## ticmxman

rich584 said:


> That's just a good HDD. It should work perfectly. Good choice. Did they have the 2TB version in stock? If so, how much?
> 
> Rich


The 2TB was $109. (1.5TB=$89, 1TB= $65)I was tempted but trying to mind the budget so I took the middle ground. The 1.5TB on my HR24-100 and the 500mb on my HR22 should be enough. We had been getting by with 1.25 TB total storage for years and now we have 2TB total. But I'll keep your advice in mind about not retaining programs to the extent they bog the HRs down, that is good advice.

I got the EVDS up and running last night no problems so far. I'm researching a network problem I have been having since the storm that took out my HR20-700. I've narrowed it down to "IP address conflict with another system on network". I note that the HR22 has a static notation by the IP should it have a static address? Wrong thread for this I guess but any tips?


----------



## mocarob

I have an HR20 and was looking at the Fantom 2tb drives that are available.
There were a few negative reviews on them awhile back but do we have any recent feedback of how they hold up?

I've searched the threads and though some of you have advised against them ~ I've only seen a couple people report failures.
I've had a 1tb Cavalry work great for me the past 2-3yrs.
Thanks.


----------



## P Smith

If your store have grace period for return it - try and tell us how it working with latest version of FW


----------



## Rich

ticmxman said:


> The 2TB was $109. (1.5TB=$89, 1TB= $65)I was tempted but trying to mind the budget so I took the middle ground. The 1.5TB on my HR24-100 and the 500mb on my HR22 should be enough. We had been getting by with 1.25 TB total storage for years and now we have 2TB total. But I'll keep your advice in mind about not retaining programs to the extent they bog the HRs down, that is good advice.


Wow, that's a great price for the 2TB. But I understand and a 1.5 is still a pretty good sized HDD. Wonder how much shipping is from them? I'll have to check that out.



> I got the EVDS up and running last night no problems so far. I'm researching a network problem I have been having since the storm that took out my HR20-700. I've narrowed it down to "IP address conflict with another system on network". I note that the HR22 has a static notation by the IP should it have a static address? Wrong thread for this I guess but any tips?


I had a lot of problems with IP address conflicts until *VOS* told me how to put a static IP address on each one of my Net devices. Now, every device that connects to my router has a static IP address and I have no problems at all, in that regard. Almost bought a new computer because of the conflicts.

I can't say enough about all the help that *VOS* has given me over the years and I've tried to pass that knowledge down to others whenever I can. Believe me, I don't have the knowledge or background to just pull these answers out of a hat.

If you don't know how to set up a static IP address, PM me and I'll explain how to do it. I'll send that same info to anyone who asks me for it.

Rich


----------



## Rich

mocarob said:


> I have an HR20 and was looking at the Fantom 2tb drives that are available.
> There were a few negative reviews on them awhile back but do we have any recent feedback of how they hold up?
> 
> I've searched the threads and though some of you have advised against them ~ I've only seen a couple people report failures.
> I've had a 1tb Cavalry work great for me the past 2-3yrs.
> Thanks.


The Fantoms do seem a bit iffy, but it might be as you say. Just a few people with problems and you do tend to notice the problems. I'd still go with what we recognize as the "standard" for external devices. The EURS WD HDD and either an Antec MX-1 enclosure (or a Rosewill enclosure) or the Thermaltake docking station.

I don't like out of the box eSATAs. We know the EURS or EVDS is made specifically with DVRs in mind and, aside from the 24-500s, these will work with any of the HRs. I've mentioned my problems with the 500s and external drives before. My personal choice is the Thermaltake docking station for an external device. No tools needed. About as close to "Plug and Play" as you're gonna get right now.

Rich


----------



## Rich

P Smith said:


> If your store have grace period for return it - try and tell us how it working with latest version of FW


Dropped your package in the mail today. Should have it in a week.

Rich


----------



## P Smith

OK. Will test them all ..


----------



## Rich

P Smith said:


> OK. Will test them all ..


Enjoy yourself, I was just gonna throw them out.

Rich


----------



## P Smith

That's my nature (as EE worked for Sustain Group) - test, test, test ...  And find root cause, make it works again and prevent the issue in a future.


----------



## ticmxman

rich584 said:


> Wow, that's a great price for the 2TB. But I understand and a 1.5 is still a pretty good sized HDD. Wonder how much shipping is from them? I'll have to check that out.
> 
> I had a lot of problems with IP address conflicts until *VOS* told me how to put a static IP address on each one of my Net devices. Now, every device that connects to my router has a static IP address and I have no problems at all, in that regard. Almost bought a new computer because of the conflicts.
> 
> I can't say enough about all the help that *VOS* has given me over the years and I've tried to pass that knowledge down to others whenever I can. Believe me, I don't have the knowledge or background to just pull these answers out of a hat.
> 
> If you don't know how to set up a static IP address, PM me and I'll explain how to do it. I'll send that same info to anyone who asks me for it.
> 
> Rich


I should note these were what they called OEM drives, new but not in a box, just a sealed package.
They have a 15 day return policy.

I managed to resolve my network issue. I on the HR22 I redid the network set up and all is well. At least for now. But I will PM you to get the details on setting up the static IP address in case the issue returns. I've done some research on Network issues but have more to learn.


----------



## Laxguy

rich584 said:


> I had a lot of problems with IP address conflicts until *VOS* told me how to put a static IP address on each one of my Net devices. Now, every device that connects to my router has a static IP address and I have no problems at all, in that regard. Almost bought a new computer because of the conflicts.


+1

All I did was set each one via the remote on each of three receivers. I used the model number, eg, .20, .24 and .25 so I could readily tell them apart as I looked at Netgear's router info page. Obviously won't work if one has several of the same model....

No more glitches as machines no longer fight over an IP lease.


----------



## jimbodunky

Hi Folks,

I've seen a ton of support in this thread for the Thermaltake BlacX N0028USU eSATA dock. 

I found another TT enclosure that looks tons cooler and has twin fans to cool a WD20EURS.

The Thermaltake ST0021U Max 5 twin fan eSATA enclosure has a much newer manufacture date (2010) compared to the BlacX (2005). 

I'm having trouble understanding why the twin fan enclosure hasn't been brought up previously in this thread. It has an active cooling system vs. a passive one and even though the dock allows for easy HDD swaps, the Directv HD DVR would never allow for swapping HDDs back and forth. If you shelved a full HDD and swapped in a new one, if you went back to swap in the shelved one, it'd just reformat the drive as a new one. I'm saying this rhetorically because I'm sure everyone in here already knows that.

What I have right now is an old WD 1.5 TB My Book Home Edition that has an eSATA port on the back. Never unboxed it until 3 weeks ago when I got the HR24 installed. I'd gotten it a couple of years ago at a Best Buy Black Friday event for a future DVR that I haven't gotten until now.

The only thing that stopped me from plugging it in was the lack of an eSATA cable. Now that my DVR is about 50% full, I want to try what I have before dropping coin on the TT enclosure. I know I won't have access to the internal HDD once I plug in the MBHE, but if anyone knows for sure that the MBHE is inviting nothing but migraines I won't even bother trying it out. I have other WD externals in the house and the things tend to go to sleep on their own when not being utilized.

Reading up on the HDD spin technology in the EURS has made me a believer already.

So to nutshell it: Do I bother even trying the MBHE and why is the passively cooled, lame looking docking station so much more popular than the actively cooled, newer HDD enclosure?

Thanks for your time!


----------



## P Smith

jimbodunky said:


> ... the Directv HD DVR would never allow for swapping HDDs back and forth. If you shelved a full HDD and swapped in a new one, if you went back to swap in the shelved one, *it'd just reformat the drive as a new one*. I'm saying this *rhetorically* because I'm sure everyone in here already knows that...


Really ? Where is you get such wrong understanding of DVR support of eSATA drives ?

BTW, what you mean by "MBHE" ?

[vent on]
What is pissing me off, after such posts with nonsense and throwing out everything what credible members here been tested and posted, the posts will get (and got actually) references from other newbies - "I'm reading controversial information on the site, can't get reliable data to make my decision, would you ..." and ask same question again and again. And our members politely & correctly answering same question again and again ! We getting multiple threads about same aspect with redundant info ... And here is come a loop again ...
[vent off]


----------



## subeluvr

P Smith said:


> BTW, what you mean by "MBHE" ?


*M*y *B*ook *H*ome *E*dition... seems obvious


----------



## subeluvr

jimbodunky said:


> I found another TT enclosure that looks tons cooler and has twin fans to cool a WD20EURS.
> 
> The Thermaltake ST0021U Max 5 twin fan eSATA enclosure has a much newer manufacture date (2010) compared to the BlacX (2005).
> 
> I'm having trouble understanding why the twin fan enclosure hasn't been brought up previously in this thread. It has an active cooling system vs. a passive one and even though the dock allows for easy HDD swaps


I prefer the TT dock because it is NOT an enclosure. Quick and easy to swap drives and less complicated in build and circuitry than an enclosure.

JMO



jimbodunky said:


> ... the Directv HD DVR would never allow for swapping HDDs back and forth. If you shelved a full HDD and swapped in a new one, if you went back to swap in the shelved one, it'd just reformat the drive as a new one. I'm saying this rhetorically because I'm sure everyone in here already knows that.


You have already been deservedly chastised by P. Smith for the gross inaccuracy of that statement so no need to pile on.


----------



## jimbodunky

I researched how the HR24 handles external drives. From my understanding, if you plug one in then power on the DVR, the HR24 marries itself to the external drive with an encryption key. Let's say that drive gets full and I want to get a second one.

If I were to then unplug that first external and plug in a new second drive, the HR24 would do the same thing; marry itself to that drive with a unique encryption key.

If I wanted to go back and watch what was on the first full external, I would NOT be able to do so because of the encryption key.

That's MY understanding

If I'm wrong, you don't have to be some elitist *oh here comes another noob* ****** and launch into a rant. I hope you're the exception and not the rule.

Can anyone help answer my question or constructively correct me instead of doucheranting a noob? Thanks!


----------



## P Smith

subeluvr said:


> *M*y *B*ook *H*ome *E*dition... seems obvious


Unfortunately not for me ...


----------



## P Smith

jimbodunky said:


> I researched how the HR24 handles external drives. From my understanding, if you plug one in then power on the DVR, the HR24 marries itself to the external drive with an encryption key. Let's say that drive gets full and I want to get a second one.
> 
> If I were to then unplug that first external and plug in a new second drive, the HR24 would do the same thing; marry itself to that drive with a unique encryption key.
> 
> If I wanted to go back and watch what was on the first full external, I would NOT be able to do so because of the encryption key.
> 
> That's MY understanding
> 
> If I'm wrong, you don't have to be some elitist *oh here comes another noob* ****** and launch into a rant. I hope you're the exception and not the rule.
> 
> Can anyone help answer my question or constructively correct me instead of doucheranting a noob? Thanks!


Calm down.

You got wrong understanding, perhaps little reading here would clear the matter for you ?
And short advise for you - search and read first, then think - if your not sure after that - ASK.



Spoiler



RECORDINGS encrypted by DVR unique key, so anytime same DVR will play them. No format will be done after connecting previously used eSATA drive to ANY DVR.


----------



## subeluvr

P Smith said:


> Unfortunately not for me ...


You have to think like a newbie not an engineer


----------



## P Smith

subeluvr said:


> You have to think like a newbie not an engineer


Duh ! :eek2:


----------



## subeluvr

P Smith said:


> Duh ! :eek2:


Now you got it


----------



## P Smith

Credits goes to you, sir !


----------



## Rich

P Smith said:


> That's my nature (as EE worked for Sustain Group) - test, test, test ...  And find root cause, make it works again and prevent the issue in a future.


I know. Enjoy yourself. My nature is to replace rather than fix....:lol:

Rich


----------



## Rich

Laxguy said:


> +1
> 
> All I did was set each one via the remote on each of three receivers. I used the model number, eg, .20, .24 and .25 so I could readily tell them apart as I looked at Netgear's router info page. Obviously won't work if one has several of the same model....
> 
> No more glitches as machines no longer fight over an IP lease.


If you mean the same model of HR, it makes no difference, you can still put a static IP on every one of them. I've got my five BD players, twelve HRs, a Roku (I think I remember doing that one), my OOMA and five computers all with static IP addresses. I probably am forgetting some. But it sure cleared up all my problems and my main computer went back to being fast again. Damn near junked it and would have had the same problems with a new one, I would think. Oh yeah, an X-Box and a PS3 and I'm still forgetting some. :lol:

Rich


----------



## Rich

subeluvr said:


> *M*y *B*ook *H*ome *E*dition... seems obvious


I didn't have a clue either.

Rich


----------



## Rich

jimbodunky said:


> I researched how the HR24 handles external drives. From my understanding, if you plug one in then power on the DVR, the HR24 marries itself to the external drive with an encryption key. Let's say that drive gets full and I want to get a second one.
> 
> If I were to then unplug that first external and plug in a new second drive, the HR24 would do the same thing; marry itself to that drive with a unique encryption key.
> 
> If I wanted to go back and watch what was on the first full external, I would NOT be able to do so because of the encryption key.
> 
> That's MY understanding
> 
> If I'm wrong, you don't have to be some elitist *oh here comes another noob* ****** and launch into a rant. I hope you're the exception and not the rule.
> 
> Can anyone help answer my question or constructively correct me instead of doucheranting a noob? Thanks!


Yup, as long as you put an HDD that was "married" to an HR back on that HR, no matter how many other HDDs you've had on that HR, the HR will still play the content. And every other HDD that you recorded content with that HR will play that content on that HR. How's that for polite and succinct?

Rich


----------



## Rich

jimbodunky said:


> Hi Folks,
> 
> I've seen a ton of support in this thread for the Thermaltake BlacX N0028USU eSATA dock.
> 
> I found another TT enclosure that looks tons cooler and has twin fans to cool a WD20EURS.
> 
> The Thermaltake ST0021U Max 5 twin fan eSATA enclosure has a much newer manufacture date (2010) compared to the BlacX (2005).
> 
> I'm having trouble understanding why the twin fan enclosure hasn't been brought up previously in this thread. It has an active cooling system vs. a passive one and even though the dock allows for easy HDD swaps, the Directv HD DVR would never allow for swapping HDDs back and forth. If you shelved a full HDD and swapped in a new one, if you went back to swap in the shelved one, it'd just reformat the drive as a new one. I'm saying this rhetorically because I'm sure everyone in here already knows that.


I've looked at that enclosure and using a docking station is much easier. My HDDs don't run hot in the docking stations. Here's a *link* to that enclosure, showing us a picture really doesn't do much good, links are much better.

To be honest, I've been trying to get away from enclosures. I just opened up an MX-1 last night and the whole interior was dusty. Just the nature of the beast. We've been recommending the MX-1 for a long time, but I prefer the docking stations. The docking stations are silent, the enclosures usually aren't. But by all means, try one and let us know how it works and if it's truly silent. And doesn't gather dust like a mini-vacuum cleaner.

Rich


----------



## jimbodunky

That answers everything. 

Now I see the allure of the docking station. 

Should I give the MBHE a shot or just go with a EURS+dock?


----------



## subeluvr

jimbodunky said:


> That answers everything.
> 
> Now I see the allure of the docking station.
> 
> Should I give the MBHE a shot or just go with a EURS+dock?


A WD AVR Expander (WDBABT0010HBK-NESN) works fine on both my HR24-100 and HR24-500 and it has an AV drive inside.

Don't know about the MBHE drive specs but I prefer the AV design parameters of the WD10EURS drive.


----------



## Laxguy

rich584 said:


> If you mean the same model of HR, it makes no difference, you can still put a static IP on every one of them. << Snipped bits out >>
> But it sure cleared up all my problems and my main computer went back to being fast again. << Snipped bits out >>. :lol:
> 
> Rich


I meant only that the ID portion within the IP number assigned to different boxes [last two digits, as in .24 for the HR24] wouldn't be doable if they were of the same model- at least under my setup on a Netgear.


----------



## Scott Kocourek

Let's try and stay on topic, if there are anymore questions or comments regarding IP addresses please start a new thread.


----------



## Rich

Laxguy said:


> I meant only that the ID portion within the IP number assigned to different boxes [last two digits, as in .24 for the HR24] wouldn't be doable if they were of the same model- at least under my setup on a Netgear.


I've got a Linksys Cisco router and I have no problem with any of the models. Each one has it's own IP address. I hope I'm reading your posts correctly. If not, please explain.

Rich


----------



## Rich

jimbodunky said:


> That answers everything.
> 
> Now I see the allure of the docking station.
> 
> Should I give the MBHE a shot or just go with a EURS+dock?


When the My Book series first came out, I bought one immediately and it didn't work. I reported this by post immediately. Even called WD and was told by a tech that the My Book series wasn't meant for DVRs and would not work with them. Then something changed and they did begin to work with the HRs.

I dunno the answer to your question. If it were my choice, I would go with the EURS and the TT docking station, I've already voted with my money on enclosures vs docking stations. I've only got one enclosure left and I doubt if I'll ever buy another one. Looks like the MBHE might be a tad cheaper, but it's still an enclosure.

One thing to keep in mind, if you buy a 2TB EURS and a TT docking station, and keep the 2TB HDD about a bit over half full, you won't have the "bogging down" problem all the HRs have with full or near full HDDs. With a 1TB HDD, you're gonna see that "bogging down" effect a lot quicker.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Scott Kocourek said:


> Let's try and stay on topic, if there are anymore questions or comments regarding IP addresses please start a new thread.


That was why I offered to answer questions by PM, Scott. If any more pop up on this thread, I will answer them by PM.

Rich


----------



## msm96wolf

Best Buy has Model: Barracuda 2TB Mo ST320005N4A for $89

I am looking at buying a docking station and adding to my HR 21 or HR 24. If this is not a good Internal HD, any recommnedations?


----------



## subeluvr

msm96wolf said:


> Best Buy has Model: Barracuda 2TB Mo ST320005N4A for $89
> 
> I am looking at buying a docking station and adding to my HR 21 or HR 24. If this is not a good Internal HD, any recommnedations?


Smaller cache than WD20EURS http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136783 and not an AV drive... you get what you pay for.

Googling the Seagate model # returned this... http://forums.seagate.com/t5/Barracuda-XT-Barracuda-Barracuda/Problems-with-Barracuda-2TB-ST320005N4A/td-p/35473


----------



## msm96wolf

Thanks, I thought it would not work but wanted to verify. Need to go the newegg route


----------



## Rich

msm96wolf said:


> Best Buy has Model: Barracuda 2TB Mo ST320005N4A for $89
> 
> I am looking at buying a docking station and adding to my HR 21 or HR 24. If this is not a good Internal HD, any recommnedations?


I just gave away five Barracuda drives, they all worked, but made so much noise I couldn't put up with them. The only drive for DVRs that Seagate makes is the Pipeline series and I wouldn't trust them. Better to stick with the WDs.

Rich


----------



## HDJulie

I've got the WD 2TB EARS drive in the Thermtake docking station connected to my HR20-700. It's been there for a few days & the DVR seems really slow now. I've recorded only a couple of shows, nothing of importance, so am wondering if I should go ahead & get an EURS drive since I can use the EARS for something else. Are the DVR's usually slower when on external drives?


----------



## mocarob

I'm not trying to negate any of your WD drive reviews but I'v had terrible luck with them. Maybe it was just a cheap model but I've had 2 break down in my PC just as the warranty ran out. (within weeks) They have replaced it twice so that was good.. But I've vowed never to buy one again. I've lost alot of data on that last failure.. (naive enuff not to have backup) 
The ones you guys have must be rock solid. Have any of them failed?


----------



## mocarob

Is this the one you recommend?
Western Digital AV-GP WD20EURS 2tb
it's only $99 at newegg right now. free shipping.
a few of the reviews werent favorable. but thats to expected right? a few lemons..

I'm sorry if these issues have been addressed before but most people like me only come here when they have a problem or looking for advice to upgrade. We dont have the experience with this stuff..

Tech forums like these are a great service to consumers.
\thanks.


----------



## crowdx42

Has anyone being using the Western Digital Green Power drives? I believe they are 5400rpm, wondering what is the life expectancy difference between these and the special DVR drives designed to run 24/7
Thanks for the advice
Patrick


----------



## CCarncross

The EADS, EVDS, and EURS drives are all part of the green drive series....


----------



## Rich

HDJulie said:


> I've got the WD 2TB EARS drive in the Thermtake docking station connected to my HR20-700. It's been there for a few days & the DVR seems really slow now. I've recorded only a couple of shows, nothing of importance, so am wondering if I should go ahead & get an EURS drive since I can use the EARS for something else. Are the DVR's usually slower when on external drives?


I've two EARS externally on two 20-700s and they seem to be working fine. I think I've got one internally on one of my owned 20-700s. If I do, it's working as well as the rest of them. I see no problems with slowness at all on any of my HRs.

While I've never seen an external drive affect the performance of an HR, I've always thought that they are a burden on the HRs.

Rich


----------



## Rich

mocarob said:


> I'm not trying to negate any of your WD drive reviews but I'v had terrible luck with them. Maybe it was just a cheap model but I've had 2 break down in my PC just as the warranty ran out. (within weeks) They have replaced it twice so that was good.. But I've vowed never to buy one again. I've lost alot of data on that last failure.. (naive enuff not to have backup)
> The ones you guys have must be rock solid. Have any of them failed?


I had plenty of WD drives fail on my TiVos, but none at all on my HRs. All I've purchased in years have been WD drives. Silent and reliable. The Seagates I find to be reliable, but terribly noisy.

Rich


----------



## HDJulie

I was nervous about the EARS so I decided to use it as extra storage for the pc's & have ordered an EURS.


----------



## Rich

HDJulie said:


> I was nervous about the EARS so I decided to use it as extra storage for the pc's & have ordered an EURS.


Not a bad decision.

Rich


----------



## P Smith

rich584 said:


> I just gave away five Barracuda drives, they all worked, but made so much noise I couldn't put up with them. The only drive for DVRs that Seagate makes is the Pipeline series and I wouldn't trust them. Better to stick with the WDs.
> 
> Rich


Rich, if you don't mind I could post what I'm getting from health of those five (got them today: 1x1TB and 4x1.5TB).
First observation - all of them belong to well known 7200.11 series, good is they are has decent FW and don't stop working totally. 
A couple drives has maxed out Remap area ie the counter reach 4095 value.
Running Victoria on two of them now: Scan with Remap ...


----------



## Rich

P Smith said:


> Rich, if you don't mind I could post what I'm getting from health of those five (got them today: 1x1TB and 4x1.5TB).
> First observation - all of them belong to well known 7200.11 series, good is they are has decent FW and don't stop working totally.
> A couple drives has maxed out Remap area ie the counter reach 4095 value.
> Running Victoria on two of them now: Scan with Remap ...


Nope, I don't mind at all. Post away. All those HDDs I sent you were working, just very noisy. When I get around to it, I'm gonna dig out a 1.5 Seagate that I know is shot from one of my owned 20-700s and send it to you. I'm using a TT docking station with a 2TB EVDS on it now to bypass the 1.5 internal drive. Just got to get around to it. Maybe this week. I'd be interested to learn what you find with that one. All it did before I put the external on was constantly reboot the HR. And I got "14" error messages about the HDD before I put the external drive on it. That will be my last Seagate, I think.

For those of you that aren't familiar with the Seagate drives, they are all Seagate Barracudas. I wouldn't think of recommending them, they're just too noisy and they get louder over time.

Rich


----------



## P Smith

rich584 said:


> Nope, I don't mind at all. Post away. All those HDDs I sent you were working, just very noisy. When I get around to it, I'm gonna dig out a 1.5 Seagate that I know is shot from one of my owned 20-700s and send it to you. I'm using a TT docking station with a 2TB EVDS on it now to bypass the 1.5 internal drive. Just got to get around to it. Maybe this week. I'd be interested to learn what you find with that one. All it did before I put the external on was constantly reboot the HR. And I got "14" error messages about the HDD before I put the external drive on it. That will be my last Seagate, I think.
> 
> *For those of you that aren't familiar with the Seagate drives, they are all Seagate Barracudas. I wouldn't think of recommending them, they're just too noisy and they get louder over time.*
> 
> Rich


Those are not just louder, but plain bad [perhaps 7200.11 family ?] - if a counter shows 4095 bad sectors, that means - a lot of them discovered and it will develop more (no way for good drive to have 4000+ bad sectors in 2 years !), so the drive must be RMAed.


----------



## P Smith

OK. I'll try to collect all data in one table.



#|DVR|Model|DateCode|POT h/d/y|Bad Sectors|UNC err|HighFly err|SMART|Short DST|Long DST|Note
1|HR20-700|ST91000333AS|09103|22294/929/2.5|670|5840|1784|Pass|Pass|FAIL|no use
2|HR20-700|ST91500343AS|09117|19917/830/2.3|4095 (max out)|216|2161|FAIL|-|-|dead
3|HR20-700|ST91500341AS|09395|11157/465/1.3|4095 (max out)|137|451|FAIL|Pass|-|dead
4|HR20-700|ST91500343AS|10042|15289/647/1.8|4095 (max out)|682|634|FAIL|Pass|-|dead
5|HR20-700|ST91500343AS|10052|13424/559/1.5|30|0|266|Pass|Pass|Pass|stable, but heads in question
| other batch
1|HR20-100|ST91000340AS|08301|25575/1065/2.9|534|320|0|Pass|FAIL|-|increasing #bad sectors after each scan

Notes:
- Bad sectors #: if 30 health is eq 100%, 483 - 89%, 670 - 84%, 4095 - 1%
- UNC err # - health is 100% if no errors and 1% - if errors
- HighFly err # - same as above
- POT - Power-On Time.
- #3 and #5 from same DVR.
- according SMART's POT's health declining, the drives designed to work 10 years.


----------



## CCarncross

So it looks like in all cases the drives are bad...


----------



## Sam_I_Am

CCarncross said:


> So it looks like in all cases the drives are bad...


No, number 5 passed all the tests, the rest are trashed.


----------



## P Smith

I would say same - #5 is still OK, I will try to play with AAM, see if that complain about excessive noise could be defeated.

Drives #2,3,4 fallen miserably - could be magnetic layer totally defective on some spots; I saw how slow/bad sectors appeared on screen - it wasn't bad head(s).

If someone interesting, I could add more columns, like #spin-up retries,start-stop count, high fly writes, UNC errors, etc


----------



## mocarob

What did you use to test them?


----------



## P Smith

Victoria for Win, MHDD (CD or USB), Seagate Tools for Win and DOS (CD).


----------



## Rich

P Smith said:


> I would say same - #5 is still OK, I will try to play with AAM, see if that complain about excessive noise could be defeated.
> 
> Drives #2,3,4 fallen miserably - could be magnetic layer totally defective on some spots; I saw how slow/bad sectors appeared on screen - it wasn't bad head(s).
> 
> If someone interesting, I could add more columns, like #spin-up retries,start-stop count, high fly writes, UNC errors, etc


Now that I think about it, one of the five was shot. Don't remember what it did or didn't do, but I think I put a question mark on the label of one of them I thought was shot. The rest did work correctly in or on the 20-700s, just made far too much noise.

Rich


----------



## Rich

CCarncross said:


> So it looks like in all cases the drives are bad...


What a waste of money. They were all quite expensive when I bought them....:nono2:

Rich


----------



## bond111

Ok, question for those who know. I just recently purchased a WD My Book Essential 2tb external hard drive WDBACW0020HBK, and am trying to connect it to my HD DVR model HR20. I cannot seem to find the correct cable that runs on the backside of that hard drive(it's a SS cable, but it's real skinny and has a little notch in the middle) to a esata connector that fits on the back of my box. Anyone help me out please?


----------



## Rich

bond111 said:


> Ok, question for those who know. I just recently purchased a WD My Book Essential 2tb external hard drive WDBACW0020HBK, and am trying to connect it to my HD DVR model HR20. I cannot seem to find the correct cable that runs on the backside of that hard drive(it's a SS cable, but it's real skinny and has a little notch in the middle) to a esata connector that fits on the back of my box. Anyone help me out please?


I don't know what an SS cable is, but what you're looking for is an eSATA to eSATA jumper cable that goes between the My Book (not the greatest choice of an external setup) and the HR. Should have the same connector on each end of the cable. You should see an "eSATA" port on the back of the My Book that looks just like the "eSATA" port on the back of the HR.

Is *this* the My Book you bought? If it is, you've bought a USB My Book and you need a SATA My Book.

If I'm correct, you might want to purchase one of the external setups we recommend.

Rich


----------



## K4LK

rich584 said:


> If I'm correct, you might want to purchase one of the external setups we recommend.
> 
> Rich


Rich, what is the recommended setup? I have an HR24-500. Thanks!


----------



## subeluvr

bond111 said:


> Ok, question for those who know. I just recently purchased a WD My Book Essential 2tb external hard drive WDBACW0020HBK, and am trying to connect it to my HD DVR model HR20. I cannot seem to find the correct cable that runs on the backside of that hard drive(it's a SS cable, but it's real skinny and has a little notch in the middle) to a esata connector that fits on the back of my box. Anyone help me out please?


Rich is right on the problem... you bought a My Book which is USB and not the My Book AVR Expander eSATA/USB that you need.

Here's what you need if you want an in the box product... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136602

Or a TT dock with WD EURS if you want a la carte...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153071

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136783


----------



## K4LK

subeluvr said:


> Rich is right on the problem... you bought a My Book which is USB and not the My Book AVR Expander eSATA/USB that you need.
> 
> Here's what you need if you want an in the box product... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136602
> 
> Or a TT dock with WD EURS if you want a la carte...
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153071
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136783


I tried the WD DVR Expander on an HR24-500 and saw some weird behavior. On restart it, the DVR found it and formatted but kept forgetting that it was attached. I returned it.


----------



## subeluvr

K4LK said:


> I tried the WD DVR Expander on an HR24-500 and saw some weird behavior. On restart it, the DVR found it and formatted but kept forgetting that it was attached. I returned it.


There seems to be some chatter about defective cables on the WD DVR Expanders.

I have an HR24-500 and an HR24-100. I borrowed a recent production WD DVR expander from a neighbor and it worked flawlessly on both of my HRs.

I then ordered a TT dock and a WD10EURS. Wouldn't work on either HR so I returned it. Reordered the exact pair from another vendor and experienced the same disappointment until I replaced the eSATA cable that came with the TT dock.

See page #55 in this thread post #1365

*A valuable tip from Rich584 for those trying external drives...
*
_1. unplug the HR and the external device

2. plug in the eSATA to eSATA jumper cord between the HR and external device with both power cords unplugged

3. plug in the external device and see the power light come on

4. wait a minute or so and then plug in the HR24-500

5. if there is an on/off switch on the external device

6. when you plug in the external device, you should then turn the switch on and you should see the power light come on. Then you wait a bit and plug in the HR24-500.
_


----------



## Rich

K4LK said:


> Rich, what is the recommended setup? I have an HR24-500. Thanks!


After having the problems I've had with several 500s and external devices, I can tell you what I used. And couldn't get to work. The drive: WD EVDS 2TB using the Antec MX-1 enclosure or the Thermaltake docking station. The same thing happened on four or five 500s. Can't remember exactly. The same drives and enclosure/docking stations are working correctly right now on 20-700s. Nothing wrong with them. It appears to be a problem with the 500s and externals. I've put one of the 2TB EVDS drives in the latest 500 in place of the internal drive and it's working perfectly. I do own the 500.

So, I don't know quite what to suggest. With all the other HRs, the EVDS and both external devices mentioned above work well, even on the 24-200 (had one) and 24-100 (read positive posts). I've asked for anyone with an external device working on a 500 to post about his/her external setup, but I've read nothing.

I would assume that all the other "normal" WD drives that we recommend and that work on all the other HRs would have the same compatibility with the 500s. Those drives are the WD EARS, EADS and EURS. The EVDS and EURS are made with DVR use in mind.

Try something, there's plenty of choices on the Web. Newegg, Amazon and sites like that have many out-of-the Box eSATAs such as the My Book unit. I've read good reports about the Fantom eSATAs recently. Maybe a SATA My Book would work. Maybe you can get one of the normally recommended HDDs and external devices to work.

I'd really appreciate feedback on how you make out.

Just make sure any external device you buy has SATA in the write up or on the box.

Rich


----------



## subeluvr

rich584 said:


> I've asked for anyone with an external device working on a 500 to post about his/her external setup, but I've read nothing.


Rich, I know you've read _something_... because I have posted in multiple threads (previous page in this thread last post on the page) on this forum and in *PMs to you* that...

I have had a WD DVR Expander 1tb that worked perfectly on both my HR24-100 and my *HR24-500*

Second TT dock and WD10EURS combo works perfectly on both my HR24-100 and my *HR24-500* *once I replaced the TT eSATA cable*.


----------



## mocarob

I already have an esata to sata cable and a power adapter from a usb drive adapter. Can i use this to connect a drive to the hr20?
or does a docking station have some sort of controller for the drive built in?

I dont want to spend $50 for a dock if i dont have to.
I can test it tomorrow night but thought somebody could fill me in before then. thanks


----------



## Rich

subeluvr said:


> Rich, I know you've read _something_... because I have posted in multiple threads (previous page in this thread last post on the page) on this forum and in *PMs to you* that...
> 
> I have had a WD DVR Expander 1tb that worked perfectly on both my HR24-100 and my *HR24-500*
> 
> Second TT dock and WD10EURS combo works perfectly on both my HR24-100 and my *HR24-500* *once I replaced the TT eSATA cable*.


OK, now I do remember. But I was using different eSATA cables and the same thing happened. Next time I get a 500, I'll try the eSATA cable you sent me the link for. Thought that was an HDMI cable, my bad.

I read so many posts about external devices I can't keep them straight in my mind. Anyone else out there that I've missed?

Rich


----------



## Rich

mocarob said:


> I already have an esata to sata cable and a power adapter from a usb drive adapter. Can i use this to connect a drive to the hr20?
> or does a docking station have some sort of controller for the drive built in?
> 
> I dont want to spend $50 for a dock if i dont have to.
> I can test it tomorrow night but thought somebody could fill me in before then. thanks


I don't quite understand your post, but I don't think you can do what you want to do. I'm pretty sure USB and SATA can't be used with each other even tho you have an adapter. The docking stations do have what you need built into them. The TT docking stations do have controllers in them that allow them to be used by the HRs to expand your capacity.

Rich


----------



## subeluvr

rich584 said:


> I wouldn't read thru the massive threads in search of an answer when the question is more easily answered by simply asking the question.


I agree, but it's not too much to expect anyone looking for help to read back at least the last two or three pages in a long thread to see what the current info is because in many cases the answer to their question is in those last pages.

Let's not forget that these are _*self-help forums*_ and not _*do it for me forums*_...


----------



## subeluvr

mocarob said:


> I already have an esata to sata cable and a power adapter from a usb drive adapter. Can i use this to connect a drive to the hr20?
> or does a docking station have some sort of controller for the drive built in?
> 
> I dont want to spend $50 for a dock if i dont have to.
> I can test it tomorrow night but thought somebody could fill me in before then. thanks


Actually the TT dock is $33.99 with free shipping... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153071 and Best Buy stocks them if you are near one and want to try it out.

But, yes any power supply that will power a naked drive will do and a SATA to eSATA cable might work... and it might not. Best to try your specific hardware with your specific HR because the BEST info so far is that some drives work with some docks and some enclosures on some HR series and some don't.


----------



## rb5505

subeluvr said:


> Actually the TT dock is $33.99 with free shipping... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153071


$23.99 after $10 rebate through 8/31/11.


----------



## subeluvr

rb5505 said:


> $23.99 after $10 rebate through 8/31/11.


Oops, forgot the rebate.

My rebate card arrived 6 days after they received my documents... can't ask more than that.


----------



## mocarob

subeluvr said:


> Actually the TT dock is $33.99 with free shipping... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153071 and Best Buy stocks them if you are near one and want to try it out.
> 
> But, yes any power supply that will power a naked drive will do and a SATA to eSATA cable might work... and it might not. Best to try your specific hardware with your specific HR because the BEST info so far is that some drives work with some docks and some enclosures on some HR series and some don't.


Rich, I'm not trying to use any type of usb adapter. So lets skip that part.
I have a power block I can connect to a sata HDD.

What I really need to know is if I can connect a bare drive to the HR20 with just an esata to sata cable. Or am I lacking a drive controller thats built in to the docking station... Looks like you answered that. and thanks sub for helping too.
I wanted to get advice from you guys with more experience before I tried it.
I dont want to cause damage to the dvr or drive.. I think I'll try it later today..

My dvr rebooted itself twice in the last 12hrs and reverted back to the internal drive... Looks like my cavalry 1tb might have finally bit the dust.. (had it 2-3yrs)
I want to keep the cost down on all luxury items like this.. out of work right now.

I was also wondering if the 2 drive docks work too. I have a couple of older sata drives (750's) that I could combine for 1.5tb..


----------



## P Smith

mocarob said:


> Rich, I'm not trying to use any type of usb adapter. So lets skip that part.
> I have a power block I can connect to a sata HDD.
> 
> What I really need to know is if I can connect a bare drive to the HR20 with just an esata to sata cable. Or am I lacking a drive controller thats built in to the docking station... Looks like you answered that. and thanks sub for helping too.
> I wanted to get advice from you guys with more experience before I tried it.
> I dont want to cause damage to the dvr or drive.. I think I'll try it later today..
> 
> My dvr rebooted itself twice in the last 12hrs and reverted back to the internal drive... Looks like my cavalry 1tb might have finally bit the dust.. (had it 2-3yrs)
> I want to keep the cost down on all luxury items like this.. out of work right now.
> 
> I was also wondering if the 2 drive docks work too. I have a couple of older sata drives (750's) that I could combine for 1.5tb..


Last: only if your dock is smart enough to make RAID-0 or one similar spanning.
First: yes, you could use eSATA to SATA cable and connect your powered SATA drive to DVR (I'm proponent of such controller-less configuration for many years here, it will eliminate 'middleman' and reduce compatibility problems and increase reliability of external storage).


----------



## Rich

subeluvr said:


> I agree, but it's not too much to expect anyone looking for help to read back at least the last two or three pages in a long thread to see what the current info is because in many cases the answer to their question is in those last pages.


I agree, a new member can probably find quick answers to many questions in the last few pages or do a search. But I wouldn't want to wade thru the whole huge thread...again.

Rich


----------



## Rich

P Smith said:


> Last: only if your dock is smart enough to make RAID-0 or one similar spanning.
> First: yes, you could use eSATA to SATA cable and connect your powered SATA drive to DVR (I'm proponent of such controller-less configuration for many years here, it will eliminate 'middleman' and reduce compatibility problems and increase reliability of external storage).


Easiest way to do what he wants to do is buy the TT docking station at Newegg. Pretty cheap with the rebate. Amazon usually has them for around $33-$34.

I don't think that the dual TT docking stations can act as a RAID box does. Can't see the back of those double TTs on Amazon, but I think you get two eSATA inputs, one for each HDD. So you could hook up two HRs to one, but you couldn't get it to add the capacities. Or to pass anything between the two of them.

Rich


----------



## subeluvr

P Smith said:


> I'm proponent of such controller-less configuration for many years here, it will eliminate 'middleman' and reduce compatibility problems and increase reliability of external storage.


IIRC SATA is a decedent of ATA and that infers that the controller is ON the HD. SATA doesn't require an intelligent bus controller in a slot like SCSI does (although there are built-in SCSI control chips on some MBs). SATA, like ATA, is managed by a chip on the MB.

Yes - No?

There is obviously an interface controller(?) in the TT dock to convert SATA to USB but using the eSATA cable that is out of the loop.


----------



## subeluvr

rich584 said:


> Easiest way to do what he wants to do is buy the TT docking station at Newegg. Pretty cheap with the rebate. Amazon usually has them for around $33-$34.
> 
> I don't think that the dual TT docking stations can act as a RAID box does. Can't see the back of those double TTs on Amazon, but I think you get two eSATA inputs, one for each HDD. So you could hook up two HRs to one, but you couldn't get it to add the capacities. Or to pass anything between the two of them.
> 
> Rich


TT Dual dock is not Raid... just one eSATA connector...

http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/Product.aspx?C=1346&ID=1895#Tab2










You select which drive is connected by this switch on the top of the dock...


----------



## mocarob

Hopefuly within the hour I will be testing the 'bare drive with just a cable' connection to the DVR. I'll let you know if anything goes kaboom.

Then, seeing if my cavalry is actually toast. It's still powered up, no idea why it's not successfully interfacing. Could be the eclosure has some issue. We'll see.


----------



## James Long

Based on a few recent posts (now omitted) a reminder is needed:

Please keep the discussion in this thread focused on using eSATA drives. Discussing people in the thread and the purpose of the forum is not appropriate. If you have problems with a particular post, use the







report post function. If you have questions please PM any moderator.

Thanks!

James Long









:backtotop


----------



## aprilia1k

subeluvr said:


> TT Dual dock is not Raid... just one eSATA connector...
> .... (omitted) ...
> 
> You select which drive is connected by this switch on the top of the dock...


(Heavy fireproof suit mode, umbrella and dry-chem extinguisher ready) ;-)
As always, apologies in advance - but, I _think_ this might not be correct.

Actually, I own this one, and unless it's been updated/improved since I bought it last year - this switch is a binary on/off switch. The two lights are merely "HD Access" lights, flickering when one or the other is accessed. The function of whether the eSATA connection can accomodate access to both drives is dependent upon the computer's eSATA contoller - whether it has a mux'ing controller that will "multiplex" access to more than one eSATA drive connected, or not. My eSATA on 3 different laptops does NOT allow this, and thus when using eSATA, I can only ever see the drive in the first (hdd1) slot. USB allows for unique access to both drives (whether RAID or individual disks), but for the eSATA, it depends on the computer's eSATA controller. So - summarizing, for most eSATA ports on laptops, etc.. you will only have access to the first drive when using that interface. Using the slower USB, you'll get both drives, no problems. If I'm wrong about the eSATA, then the product has changed significantly.

I LOVE this particular docking station. For laptop or desktop, it allows for way fast swapping of drives. For above stated reasons, I only use the USB interface. I was thinking of using this for hooking up to my HR24, but decided to go with the MX-1 after finding it for $38 recently.


----------



## subeluvr

aprilia1k said:


> (Heavy fireproof suit mode, umbrella and dry-chem extinguisher ready) ;-)
> As always, apologies in advance - but, I _think_ this might not be correct.
> 
> Actually, I own this one, and unless it's been updated/improved since I bought it last year - this switch is a binary on/off switch. The two lights are merely "HD Access" lights, flickering when one or the other is accessed. The function of whether the eSATA connection can accomodate access to both drives is dependent upon the computer's eSATA contoller - whether it has a mux'ing controller that will "multiplex" access to more than one eSATA drive connected, or not. My eSATA on 3 different laptops does NOT allow this, and thus when using eSATA, I can only ever see the drive in the first (hdd1) slot. USB allows for unique access to both drives (whether RAID or individual disks), but for the eSATA, it depends on the computer's eSATA controller. So - summarizing, for most eSATA ports on laptops, etc.. you will only have access to the first drive when using that interface. Using the slower USB, you'll get both drives, no problems. If I'm wrong about the eSATA, then the product has changed significantly.
> 
> I LOVE this particular docking station. For laptop or desktop, it allows for way fast swapping of drives. For above stated reasons, I only use the USB interface. I was thinking of using this for hooking up to my HR24, but decided to go with the MX-1 after finding it for $38 recently.


I stand corrected... I have the TT mono-dock and was (incorrectly) surmising from the info on the TT site.

As you have pointed out the duo-dock is a master-slave type arrangement but still not Raid which was part of my original reply.


----------



## mocarob

subeluvr said:


> I stand corrected... I have the TT mono-dock and was (incorrectly) surmising from the info on the TT site.
> 
> As you have pointed out the duo-dock is a master-slave type arrangement but still not Raid which was part of my original reply.


So you guys are saying that you cant use it via esata as a jbod kind of storage? The dvr wont see both drives as combined storage for a larger capacity?


----------



## aprilia1k

I'll defer to subeluvr, but I'm thinking "definitely not" useful for JBOD or any sort of multiple physical drives arrangement with your HR. Only one disk, afaik.

Edited: The typical eSATA port is just that, a single port for one SATA device. The connection of multiple SATA devices would require port-multiplier functionality that precedes the port/connector on the DVR or laptop, etc.. (i.e., it's one device per SATA port). It's not like USB at all, in regard to the "multiplexing" or multiple device abilities logic. It's also way more sophisticated, and way faster of course. Apologies for any common knowledge offered though. There are external SATA Port Multipliers available I believe, but they wouldn't guarantee that the computer or DVR would be able to make use of more than one device anyway. I'm not sure if anyone has experimented with port multipliers, but I'd be surprised if the DVR's eSATA port was capable of accessing multiple drives, whether "just a bunch of disks" or individually. Waiting for someone who's seen it done to jump in, but I'm doubting it.


----------



## P Smith

mocarob said:


> Hopefuly within the hour I will be testing the 'bare drive with just a cable' connection to the DVR. I'll let you know if anything goes kaboom.
> 
> Then, seeing if my cavalry is actually toast. It's still powered up, no idea why it's not successfully interfacing. Could be the eclosure has some issue. We'll see.


So, how is the tests goes ? There is now to toast it using direct cable.


----------



## mocarob

P Smith said:


> So, how is the tests goes ? There is now to toast it using direct cable.


Well I took one of the older 750gb drives that I mentioned earlier and connected it via direct cable and re-booted.

Worked! I now see all of the old programs I had on the dvr/drive 2yrs ago..
(it had previously been connected before the enclosure failed)

I'll run it a few hrs, see if theyre are any issues.
Then test the Cavalry 1TB..

For anybody documenting this it's a HR20/100. Connected via direct cable.


----------



## P Smith

You are the one who're finally took my advice literally and made affirmative action.


----------



## mocarob

P Smith said:


> You are the one who're finally took my advice literally and made affirmative action.


Yep, Thanks for the help.
With lack of resources/start plugging things in..


----------



## P Smith

aprilia1k said:


> I'll defer to subeluvr, but I'm thinking "definitely not" useful for JBOD or any sort of multiple physical drives arrangement with your HR. Only one disk, afaik.
> 
> Edited: The typical eSATA port is just that, a single port for one SATA device. The connection of multiple SATA devices would require port-multiplier functionality that precedes the port/connector on the DVR or laptop, etc.. (i.e., it's one device per SATA port). It's not like USB at all, in regard to the "multiplexing" or multiple device abilities logic. It's also way more sophisticated, and way faster of course. Apologies for any common knowledge offered though. There are external *SATA Port Multipliers* available I believe, but they wouldn't guarantee that the computer or DVR would be able to make use of more than one device anyway. I'm not sure if anyone has experimented with port multipliers, but I'd be surprised if the DVR's eSATA port was capable of accessing multiple drives, whether "just a bunch of disks" or individually. Waiting for someone who's seen it done to jump in, but I'm doubting it.


[You can get on me now again, but] I did Search and found in 1 minute information about the kind: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=92029&highlight=multiplier&page=12
http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1331792&postcount=241


----------



## P Smith

mocarob said:


> Yep, Thanks for the help.
> With lack of resources/start plugging things in..


You could find many of my posts where I was against enclosures with internal controller ... One time I did try to describe how to bypass it inside of such enclosures ...


----------



## aprilia1k

subeluvr said:


> ...
> As you have pointed out the duo-dock is a master-slave type arrangement but still not Raid which was part of my original reply.


Actually - this has nothing to do with Master-Slave (slave-master). With a multiplier/multiplexing eSATA host, you see an independent drive for each port; without, as in this case with the TT and typical ports, you see just the first drive. Neither slave or master it be. Slave-Master harkens to older Parallel ATA technology, and doesn't apply with Serial ATA at all.


----------



## aprilia1k

P Smith said:


> [You can get on me now again, but] I did Search and found in 1 minute information about the kind: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=92029&highlight=multiplier&page=12
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1331792&postcount=241


As I said "Apologies for any common knowledge here", but.. not sure if I mis-posted or should have searched through years of content in which I didn't participate (little easier to search your own posts I imagine). So.. uh. Sorry?

In responding to another person, and pertaining to a particular enclosure, and the lack of port-multiplier ability on most individual ports (DVR or PC..) I guess I'm not sure of your purpose. Is it "See, it's right there.. my own posts and questions from four years ago"? Was the TT dual in existence back then? Didn't see it mentioned. Perhaps the older DVRs worked with gaggles of eSATA drives back then, doing mux'ing of the single port? Didn't see that either. Ummm... Was I wrong about the TT and it's lack of mux capability, or was I redundant, because a totally different enclosure/controller was mentioned in a 72 page, nearly 1800 post thread from 2007?

Not sure if the point is that he (the OP) should have gone and found this on his own (perhaps easier for one of the original participants of the thread, i.e. yourself, than for someone new to the forum) or not. Anyway- thank you for these links. Perhaps someone should archive some of the more outdated and less relevant content, so's not to confuse new users.


----------



## P Smith

OK, lets go into root.

You can use big 'combo' drive if your enclosure has the SATA port multiplier, in general.
That old post was about the root - what chip is inside, Without the knowledge and following test no one will tell you if particular DVR will works with an enclosure what has such chip. TT or other name is not the case, perhaps precise name of the model with known chip would be helpful for future requests.

[I did the search and advise you use it - it's simple and not that painful, don't be afraid to use it ! ]


----------



## aprilia1k

P Smith said:


> OK, lets go into root.
> 
> You can use big 'combo' drive if your enclosure has the SATA port multiplier, in general.
> That old post was about the root - what chip is inside, Without the knowledge and following test no one will tell you if particular DVR will works with an enclosure what has such chip. TT or other name is not the case, perhaps precise name of the model with known chip would be helpful for future requests.
> 
> [I did the search and advise you use it - it's simple and not that painful, don't be afraid to use it ! ]


Now - that is useful. The first sentence, fantastic. Especially, as you say, the old post was about "the root", chip, and etc.. not very newcomer friendly and debatable as far as accessibility. Especially in light of, as you say, "mileage may vary" from enclosure to enclosure. I think it's great to provide the info up front, as you've done here. As far as "TT", well - in that post, or sub-thread, to which you replied, the TT was in pictures, and refers to the "Thermaltake Black-X" Duet. It was right there in the post my reply was quoting, and "TT" had been adopted by another as a nice, short handle for that device. Yes - backatchya - a little reading _is_ good to do, especially on the same page. 

I think that the very old threads with many obsolete and discontinued products are quite painful to read through, though it's a subjective measure, and just my opinion. Still, thank you for this. As you sort-of say, from some perusal of old threads, for any new users reading _this, current thread_ is: Someone had some level of success with an older (now), (relatively expensive) enclosure that had it's own eSATA Port Multiplier capability within. One person used it for at least two 750gb hard drives to make a single 1.5tb "logical" partition for a previous DVR. There were others who experienced little or no success with multi-disk setups. 
It bears repeating now, IMHO, four years later. Especially if there is, as I have consistently read, a 2TB limit for the current DVRs.

Subjective opinion: With 2TB drives that are temperature, power-consumption and noise efficient for under $100, it's debatable whether it is worth trying to get a controller-endowed enclosure with multiple drives to work, given the expense of a mux'ing (port-multiplier equipped) multiple disk enclosure, plus disks, etc.. Of course, for fun and edutainment? Have at it. Just an opinion.


----------



## P Smith

The 2TB limit still a limit ... but it still require a proof with each new version FW.


----------



## Rich

subeluvr said:


> TT Dual dock is not Raid... just one eSATA connector...
> 
> http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/Product.aspx?C=1346&ID=1895#Tab2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You select which drive is connected by this switch on the top of the dock...


Knew there was some way to do that. Couldn't find pictures on Amazon. In any event you can't use it as a RAID box.

Rich


----------



## Rich

aprilia1k said:


> (Heavy fireproof suit mode, umbrella and dry-chem extinguisher ready) ;-)
> As always, apologies in advance - but, I _think_ this might not be correct.
> 
> Actually, I own this one, and unless it's been updated/improved since I bought it last year - this switch is a binary on/off switch. The two lights are merely "HD Access" lights, flickering when one or the other is accessed. The function of whether the eSATA connection can accomodate access to both drives is dependent upon the computer's eSATA contoller - whether it has a mux'ing controller that will "multiplex" access to more than one eSATA drive connected, or not. My eSATA on 3 different laptops does NOT allow this, and thus when using eSATA, I can only ever see the drive in the first (hdd1) slot. USB allows for unique access to both drives (whether RAID or individual disks), but for the eSATA, it depends on the computer's eSATA controller. So - summarizing, for most eSATA ports on laptops, etc.. you will only have access to the first drive when using that interface. Using the slower USB, you'll get both drives, no problems. If I'm wrong about the eSATA, then the product has changed significantly.
> 
> I LOVE this particular docking station. For laptop or desktop, it allows for way fast swapping of drives. For above stated reasons, I only use the USB interface. I was thinking of using this for hooking up to my HR24, but decided to go with the MX-1 after finding it for $38 recently.


Yup, that's about how I understood it too. The only question that was asked was whether it would function as a RAID box for SATA HDDs and I knew it wouldn't. Thanx.

Rich


----------



## Rich

mocarob said:


> So you guys are saying that you cant use it via esata as a jbod kind of storage? The dvr wont see both drives as combined storage for a larger capacity?


Yup.

Rich


----------



## Rich

mocarob said:


> Hopefuly within the hour I will be testing the 'bare drive with just a cable' connection to the DVR. I'll let you know if anything goes kaboom.
> 
> Then, seeing if my cavalry is actually toast. It's still powered up, no idea why it's not successfully interfacing. Could be the eclosure has some issue. We'll see.


Yup, the enclosure is probably the problem. We've found that enclosures are usually the weakest link in the chain when using out-of-the box eSATAs. Dig that HDD out and you'll probably find a perfectly good HDD.

Rich


----------



## mocarob

rich584 said:


> Yup, the enclosure is probably the problem. We've found that enclosures are usually the weakest link in the chain when using out-of-the box eSATAs. Dig that HDD out and you'll probably find a perfectly good HDD.
> Rich


I'll keep that in mind moving forward.
However, The Cavalry re-booted fine this morning.
Not sure what it's issue was..


----------



## edpowers

In regards to the TT Dual dock, I also own one and it works really well with a Windows 7 machine. I was never able to get it to work reliably with any other devices including the HRs. I briefly had it connected to my Netgear Router "ReadyNAS" via USB and it would occasionally show both drives. After a few hours, the 2nd drive would disappear and I'd have to reboot to bring it back. 

Now that I have a Synology NAS, the TT dual dock is collecting dust in some unknown corner of my basement. But as aprilia1k mentioned, it works great on laptops/desktops.


----------



## Rich

edpowers said:


> In regards to the TT Dual dock, I also own one and it works really well with a Windows 7 machine. I was never able to get it to work reliably with any other devices including the HRs. I briefly had it connected to my Netgear Router "ReadyNAS" via USB and it would occasionally show both drives. After a few hours, the 2nd drive would disappear and I'd have to reboot to bring it back.
> 
> Now that I have a Synology NAS, the TT dual dock is collecting dust in some unknown corner of my basement. But as aprilia1k mentioned, it works great on laptops/desktops.


Never saw the point of using the dual docks on the HRs. Believe me, the single docks work very well.

Rich


----------



## rb5505

question about the Thermaltake ST0005U dock. if you have 2 ext drives that you swap in this dock, does the dvr go through the same process like it does with separate externals (unplug dvr, swap drive, plug in dvr etc.)? since i'm guessing it does, does it retain the prior series settings etc or do you have to re-do them with each swap?


----------



## mocarob

mocarob said:


> I'll keep that in mind moving forward.
> However, The Cavalry re-booted fine this morning.
> Not sure what it's issue was..


The cavalry 1TB bit the dust. It stopped working again so I removed it from the External case & it still wont boot direct attached. Guess what, It's a WD10EACS. A serial # search on WD's website tells me that it's still under warranty but not sure how that works since it was a cavalry drive.. I bought it 8/28/08. It's the 3rd WD drive to fail within 2weeks of the warranty running out. (the other 2 were PC drives)

Come to think of it tho, If they burn out within the warranty each time I can get a new drive every 3yrs.. Just need to have the data backed up somewhere.. I will be moving to the 'copy & replace' thread now to study up on how to copy to a new drive.. (prob wont work but i'll still try) it's been 3yrs since I did it last.. Sure would like to keep the shows saved and season passes..


----------



## Rich

rb5505 said:


> question about the Thermaltake ST0005U dock. if you have 2 ext drives that you swap in this dock, does the dvr go through the same process like it does with separate externals (unplug dvr, swap drive, plug in dvr etc.)? since i'm guessing it does, does it retain the prior series settings etc or do you have to re-do them with each swap?


I wouldn't use that dock. The single drive TT seems to be a better choice.

Rich


----------



## Rich

mocarob said:


> The cavalry 1TB bit the dust. It stopped working again so I removed it from the External case & it still wont boot direct attached. Guess what, It's a WD10EACS. A serial # search on WD's website tells me that it's still under warranty but not sure how that works since it was a cavalry drive.. I bought it 8/28/08. It's the 3rd WD drive to fail within 2weeks of the warranty running out. (the other 2 were PC drives)
> 
> Come to think of it tho, If they burn out within the warranty each time I can get a new drive every 3yrs.. Just need to have the data backed up somewhere.. I will be moving to the 'copy & replace' thread now to study up on how to copy to a new drive.. (prob wont work but i'll still try) it's been 3yrs since I did it last.. Sure would like to keep the shows saved and season passes..


I'd give up on the Cavalrys, they are the worst eSATAs I've ever had. About the HDDs, you will get good service from WD EVDS, EURS, EADS and EARS drives. Just stick them in TT docks and you're good to go.

Rich


----------



## subeluvr

rich584 said:


> I wouldn't use that dock. The single drive TT seems to be a better choice.
> 
> Rich


Rich,

The _Thermaltake ST0005U_ is the *single drive* dock.

*rb5505* said "_question about the Thermaltake ST0005U dock. if you have 2 ext drives *that you swap in this dock*_" not two drives in this dock.


----------



## rb5505

subeluvr said:


> Rich,
> 
> The _Thermaltake ST0005U_ is the *single drive* dock.
> 
> *rb5505* said "_question about the Thermaltake ST0005U dock. if you have 2 ext drives *that you swap in this dock*_" not two drives in this dock.


thanks subeluvr, you are correct. i was just wondering if a drive after being removed and put back in again, has to reload all info like it did when you first put it in the dock. i got the dock and drive yesterday and so far, so good. it couldn't have been easier to get it going.


----------



## subeluvr

rb5505 said:


> thanks subeluvr, you are correct. i was just wondering if a drive after being removed and put back in again, has to reload all info like it did when you first put it in the dock. i got the dock and drive yesterday and so far, so good. it couldn't have been easier to get it going.


You can't hot swap a HD in the dock connected to a DVR. The DVR has to POST and boot with the hard drive it's going to use.


----------



## Rich

subeluvr said:


> Rich,
> 
> The _Thermaltake ST0005U_ is the *single drive* dock.
> 
> *rb5505* said "_question about the Thermaltake ST0005U dock. if you have 2 ext drives *that you swap in this dock*_" not two drives in this dock.


I can't remember model numbers that long...can't remember what I had for breakfast most of the time...:lol:

I thought he was talking about the double dock.

Rich


----------



## rb5505

subeluvr said:


> You can't hot swap a HD in the dock connected to a DVR. The DVR has to POST and boot with the hard drive it's going to use.


thanks. but, does it retain the season passes and favorite channels when you swap a drive that's been set up prior?


----------



## CCarncross

rb5505 said:


> thanks. but, does it retain the season passes and favorite channels when you swap a drive that's been set up prior?


Whatever is on the drive before you swap it out, is there when you swap it back...Each new drive would need to have all the SL's setup on them, because that info is stored on the drive...


----------



## GregLee

In March, I bought a Thermaltake BlacX Docking Station and a WD20EVDS drive for my HR24-500. Problem: About 1 time in 2, my HR20-500 would not recognize the esata drive after a boot and would come using its internal drive. I bought an ANTEC MX-1 to replace the BlacX, and now the esata drive has been recognized every time, so far. I guess the BlacX Docking Station was defective (I tried replacing its esata connecting cable, but that didn't help).


----------



## P Smith

GregLee said:


> In March, I bought a Thermaltake BlacX Docking Station and a WD20EVDS drive for my HR24-500. Problem: About 1 time in 2, my HR20-500 would not recognize the esata drive after a boot and would come using its internal drive. I bought an ANTEC MX-1 to replace the BlacX, and now the esata drive has been recognized every time, so far. I guess the BlacX Docking Station was defective (I tried replacing its esata connecting cable, but that didn't help).


If you can bypass internal SATA/USB/eSATA chip in it and make direct connection between the drive and DVR you'll not experience such problem with TT BlacX dock.


----------



## Rich

GregLee said:


> In March, I bought a Thermaltake BlacX Docking Station and a WD20EVDS drive for my HR24-500. Problem: About 1 time in 2, my HR20-500 would not recognize the esata drive after a boot and would come using its internal drive. I bought an ANTEC MX-1 to replace the BlacX, and now the esata drive has been recognized every time, so far. I guess the BlacX Docking Station was defective (I tried replacing its esata connecting cable, but that didn't help).


I've had problems with the 500s using the EVDS drives externally. Tried the TTs and the MX-1 and had the same problems. Put an EVDS into the 500 (I own it) and it's been working perfectly. Put the EVDS + TT on a leased 20-700 and it works perfectly. The 500s are a bit flaky, but I like them. Just takes a bit of trying this and that to get them running correctly.

Rich


----------



## BUDMAN1964

I have problem and need help. I purchased a Western Digital AV-GP WD20EURS 2TB Hard Drive and an Antec MX-1 External enclosure from NewEgg to expand the storage on my Directv HR21-700. After installing the drive into the enclosure, I unplugged my HR21 and MX-1,connected the eSATA cable to the MX-1 and the HR21, I plugged in and turned on the MX-1 and let it spin up to speed for well over 30 seconds then plugged my HR21 back in. The HR21 recognized the hard drive and installed the software. Within a few minutes everything appeared to be good. I even recorded a movie later that evening to make sure everything worked and it did so I thought everything was good to go..How much easier can it get right?

Unfortunately, when I got home from work the next day, I turned on my TV and HR21 and the satellite feed was very jerky and pausing very bad. THinking maybe I was getting bad reception, I delt with it for awhile until I turned on my TV in the bedroom and everything was fine in there. I went back to the DVR, turned everything off, and went through the set up steps over again and everything came back fine and worked like it was supposed to. The next day when I came home from work, same problem....I turn on TV and HR21 and the picture is jerky and pausing again. I have since gone though this same process several times. I have also went through the setup menu and did the receiver reset and it works ok but takes a very long time but it only corrects the problem temporarily. As long as I don't power off the HR21, everything is fine. I left the MX-1 running around the clock after I set it up, but surely I don't have to leave the HR21 powered on 24-7 ?? Does anyone have an idea what is going on. I don't know if I have a bad hard drive, bad MX-1, cable or a compatibility issue. I know Newegg has a good returns policy, but I don't know if I need to return anything or not and I am running out of time. I have unhooked the MX-1 from my HR21 now and am running back on the internal hard drive and everything is working fine. Thanks for any help in advance..


----------



## Rich

BUDMAN1964 said:


> I have problem and need help. I purchased a Western Digital AV-GP WD20EURS 2TB Hard Drive and an Antec MX-1 External enclosure from NewEgg to expand the storage on my Directv HR21-700. After installing the drive into the enclosure, I unplugged my HR21 and MX-1,connected the eSATA cable to the MX-1 and the HR21, I plugged in and turned on the MX-1 and let it spin up to speed for well over 30 seconds then plugged my HR21 back in. The HR21 recognized the hard drive and installed the software. Within a few minutes everything appeared to be good. I even recorded a movie later that evening to make sure everything worked and it did so I thought everything was good to go..How much easier can it get right?
> 
> Unfortunately, when I got home from work the next day, I turned on my TV and HR21 and the satellite feed was very jerky and pausing very bad. THinking maybe I was getting bad reception, I delt with it for awhile until I turned on my TV in the bedroom and everything was fine in there. I went back to the DVR, turned everything off, and went through the set up steps over again and everything came back fine and worked like it was supposed to. The next day when I came home from work, same problem....I turn on TV and HR21 and the picture is jerky and pausing again. I have since gone though this same process several times. I have also went through the setup menu and did the receiver reset and it works ok but takes a very long time but it only corrects the problem temporarily. As long as I don't power off the HR21, everything is fine. I left the MX-1 running around the clock after I set it up, but surely I don't have to leave the HR21 powered on 24-7 ?? Does anyone have an idea what is going on. I don't know if I have a bad hard drive, bad MX-1, cable or a compatibility issue. I know Newegg has a good returns policy, but I don't know if I need to return anything or not and I am running out of time. I have unhooked the MX-1 from my HR21 now and am running back on the internal hard drive and everything is working fine. Thanks for any help in advance..


You hooked it up correctly and I have that same setup on one 20-700. It might be the 21-700 or the MX-1 or the HDD. The weakest link in these setups is usually the enclosure or docking station. You said you have another HR? Try hooking the whole external setup to that and see what happens. The 21-700s were usually very reliable, slow but reliable. Try it on the other HR and let us know what happens.

Rich


----------



## BUDMAN1964

rich584 said:


> You hooked it up correctly and I have that same setup on one 20-700. It might be the 21-700 or the MX-1 or the HDD. The weakest link in these setups is usually the enclosure or docking station. You said you have another HR? Try hooking the whole external setup to that and see what happens. The 21-700s were usually very reliable, slow but reliable. Try it on the other HR and let us know what happens.
> 
> Rich


thanks Rich, but no I don't have another HR..sorry if I implied that. I only have a HD receiver in the bedroom...no DVR. You can see my problem in that I don't know which one is bad and I don't want to return something to Newegg just to return something. I tried an experiment last night when I went to bed and left the HR21 and MX-1 both powered on. I didn't turn on the TV this morning but when I got home from work this afternoon, I turned it on and it is more jerky now than it has ever been, so so much for the idea that as long as it was turned on everything was ok. I definately have something wrong....outside of returning both for an exchange, I don't know what else to try.


----------



## P Smith

Guys, please switch the track to other thread - we can't duplicate posts in both. http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=92029

Adding to that, the thread is dedicated to 'recommended' drives.

IMHO, BUDMAN1964, your HDD's issue would be better handled in own separate thread (you can ask Mods via PM to do that).


----------



## Rich

P Smith said:


> Guys, please switch the track to other thread - we can't duplicate posts in both. http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=92029
> 
> Adding to that, the thread is dedicated to 'recommended' drives.
> 
> IMHO, BUDMAN1964, your HDD's issue would be better handled in own separate thread (you can ask Mods via PM to do that).


Why don't we just try to help him? If the Mods think moving our posts are necessary, they'll do it.

Rich


----------



## Rich

BUDMAN1964 said:


> thanks Rich, but no I don't have another HR..sorry if I implied that. I only have a HD receiver in the bedroom...no DVR. You can see my problem in that I don't know which one is bad and I don't want to return something to Newegg just to return something. I tried an experiment last night when I went to bed and left the HR21 and MX-1 both powered on. I didn't turn on the TV this morning but when I got home from work this afternoon, I turned it on and it is more jerky now than it has ever been, so so much for the idea that as long as it was turned on everything was ok. I definately have something wrong....outside of returning both for an exchange, I don't know what else to try.


I wouldn't be hesitant to return both. I would get a Thermaltake docking station instead of the MX-1. If the same issues then are present, you've got a problem with the 21-700.

Rich


----------



## SomeRandomIdiot

With the upcoming Fall Season about to start, does anyone know if the HR20/HR21 et al will work with the 3TB Drives?

There were a few posts 9 months ago SPECULATING that a 3TB unit would not work but I cannot find a post where someone has actually tried it since then and has a definitive answer.

Thanks in Advance.


----------



## Rich

SomeRandomIdiot said:


> With the upcoming Fall Season about to start, does anyone know if the HR20/HR21 et al will work with the 3TB Drives?
> 
> There were a few posts 9 months ago SPECULATING that a 3TB unit would not work but I cannot find a post where someone has actually tried it since then and has a definitive answer.
> 
> Thanks in Advance.


Somebody did try one and it didn't work, 2TBs is the limit.

Rich


----------



## P Smith

More searching would help to fine a _definitive answer_.


----------



## SomeRandomIdiot

P Smith said:


> More searching would help to fine a _definitive answer_.


I can find plenty of results from the search feature that show congecture and opinions - cannot find any referenced with an _actual 3TB trial_. Considering there have been 3-4 NR since a single 3TB drive has been available and the question first asked (not to mention countless NR of firmware since the question was asked years ago on a Raid Unit), one has to believe its a legit question.

Often time, things people do not think will work.....do work (as you have found out with a H20 unit). And then again, as many found out yesterday, NFL to go did NOT work regardless of what the experts said.


----------



## P Smith

That's not a question for me - sure, any question what ppl asking is legit, regardless anything.

Just, by my recollection, it was posted - definitive answer: no, that capacity (if not whole drive) is not taken by existing DVR's FW.


----------



## SomeRandomIdiot

thank you for the information!


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## Lord Vader

It's been so many years since I bought my Hitachi Death Star 1TB drive (plus Antec enclosure) for one of my HR20-700s (and knock on wood, it's still humming along!), that when I came in here to see which 1.5TB or 2TB drive would be good to get now, I got a headache with all this info here.

So, can someone give a strong recommendation for what they think is the most reliable 1.5TB and 2TB drive? Let's go with internal because I've got another Antec enclosure still in its box unused and would use that in this configuration.


----------



## P Smith

Go with WD drives. If you didn't get it after reading the thread.


----------



## Lord Vader

WDs, huh? I dunno. I've heard some complaints about those. I was looking at some good Hitachi ones on Amazon. They had some of the Hitachi Death Star (sic) 2TB ones for $80 to $90 or so.


----------



## P Smith

Good luck with Hitachi, who knows ? The Force could help you with the DeathStar drives. 

I would get Samsung, WDC (Fujitsu was my choice, but there are gone ).


----------



## Lord Vader

Well, admittedly, my current Hitachi 1TB has been humming along for something like 6 or 7 years, so I'm prone to continuing with Hitachi.


----------



## dpeters11

Stock up now before WD finalizes purchasing Hitachi's drive division.


----------



## Lord Vader

BTW, considering that some here have had some eSata cables that were finicky, is there a specific type that people here found to be reliable? I don't remember which one I'm currently using.


----------



## SomeRandomIdiot

Having purchased around 900 Hard Drives over the past 6-7 years, I have seen EVERY brand have their turkeys. One model can be great with literally no failures (such as the WD Black 1TB SATA with 32MB Cache of which I have about 60) and then they change a minor feature (up it to 64MB Cache with only a minor change in the model number - probably nothing but the electronics board) and virtually every single one turns out to be fail after 100 or so hours.

The 750MB SATA Seagates were wonderful. The very next Quarter when they came out with the larger 1TB/1.5TB/2.0TB Drives, the failure rate was incredible - with SMART warnings going off almost right out of the box, before absolute failure shortly thereafter.

I can tell you of many models with great success - followed by the next models of complete disaster bearing the same brand. 

I can tell you of certain brands mentioned as favorites above that will not work as Boot Devices with Certain Computers - and other brands of higher capacity work with no issue.

I also had great luck with the Hitachi 250MB PATA drives years ago, but as I have tried to get across, it really depends on the specific model drive - and most people do not go through enough of them to guage the real reliability rate.

As the 3.5" WD-AV 2TB mentioned above have proven realiable (although I recently had a 2.5" WD-AV 320GB OEM die with virtually no usage in a SC 630 DVR), you should really be looking in that direction, as PSmith indicated.

And BTW, Hitachi, NOR ANY BRAND has had a 1TB drive that could be humming along for 6-7 years. Try cutting your estimate in half.


----------



## Stuart Sweet

I've performed some serious cleanup on this thread. I'd appreciate if this thread got back to the business of supporting those with eSATA, rather than sniping with each other. If there's no need for peer-to-peer support on this topic, I will close this thread.


----------



## Lord Vader

There was a good post that Stuart deleted, and this post referenced the WD drives with an Antec enclosure, which is what I've been using with internal drives on my setups. Seagates I've used as external drives to a PC, but if a WD used in an Antec has been running flawlessly as briefly alluded to here, I may opt for that. We'll see if it can match one of my long-running Hitachis.


----------



## GhostHeel

I've been running a WD WD20EADS in my HR22 for well over a year. It's been flawless and nearly impossible to fill up.


----------



## sporthorse

OK, so I tried to do my homework and saw what 2Tb WD drives were recommended and the docking station... But I'm looking at the photo of the bare unprotected drive in the docking station and thinking of all the dust we have (out in the country) - looks like a recipe for problems... So I looked at the recommended MX-1 enclosure, but then the price jumps from $88 total for the dock and the drive to $70 for the drive and $95 for the enclosure, ouch! Or I could settle for the Wd 1TB My Dvr Expander for a total of $96. It would still be twice what's in the DVR. So my question is, with the bare drive and the docking station, how do you protect it from excessive dust?

BTW, I see recommendations for both the WD20EURS and the WD20EARS, looks like about $30 difference in price. Pros and cons for these two drives?

TIA


----------



## harsh

Dust is typically more trouble with an enclosure than it is with open-air drives. An enclosure houses the drive and a power supply and as such, it must have a fan to dissipate heat. Fans often don't last very long in dusty environments without filters that reduce their effectiveness.

Hard drives are very close to hermetically sealed so dust settling on them won't impact their performance. Docks typically employ a wall wart so the heat is spread out and no fan is required. The disadvantage to a dock is that it provides very little acoustic dampening.


----------



## Rich

sporthorse said:


> OK, so I tried to do my homework and saw what 2Tb WD drives were recommended and the docking station... But I'm looking at the photo of the bare unprotected drive in the docking station and thinking of all the dust we have (out in the country) - looks like a recipe for problems... So I looked at the recommended MX-1 enclosure, but then the price jumps from $88 total for the dock and the drive to $70 for the drive and $95 for the enclosure, ouch! Or I could settle for the Wd 1TB My Dvr Expander for a total of $96. It would still be twice what's in the DVR. So my question is, with the bare drive and the docking station, how do you protect it from excessive dust?


You won't have a problem with dust and the docking stations. The MX-1 has a huge fan in it and is like a mini-vacuum cleaner. I just had one open a couple months ago and the amount of dust in it was very noticeable. Doesn't appear to have any negative effects on the HDDs tho. I have several docking stations and I see no dust accumulations on them at all. And they are just warm to the touch.



> BTW, I see recommendations for both the WD20EURS and the WD20EARS, looks like about $30 difference in price. Pros and cons for these two drives?


I have three EARS on and in three 20-700s and they work well. They even drop the temps on the 20-700s to 118 degrees from 123-126 degrees. I also have a couple EADS that are also not specially designed for DVR use and they both drop the temps to 118 degrees. The EVDS drives that I have internally and externally on the rest of my HRs don't lower the temps even tho they are made for DVRs, as is the EURS. The only question in my mind and the minds of others on the forum is "which will last longer?" Too soon to answer that question.

Rich


----------



## HDinVT

a few weeks ago my MX-1 started getting really noisy. It sounded like someone was revving the engine. Figured it was on its way out so I retired in favor of the Thermaltake ST0021U Max 5. Got it at nu egg dot com.

This enclosure is unbelievably quiet, I had to put my hand next to the fans to make sure it was working. It has only been operational for 18 hours or so, but I recommend it so far. :joy:


----------



## Rich

HDinVT said:


> a few weeks ago my MX-1 started getting really noisy. It sounded like someone was revving the engine. Figured it was on its way out so I retired in favor of the Thermaltake ST0021U Max 5. Got it at nu egg dot com.
> 
> This enclosure is unbelievably quiet, I had to put my hand next to the fans to make sure it was working. It has only been operational for 18 hours or so, but I recommend it so far. :joy:


Quite a few member have tried that enclosure and like it. If I needed another external device I'd probably buy one just to try it. Good luck!

Rich


----------



## kikkenit2

HDinVT said:


> a few weeks ago my MX-1 started getting really noisy. It sounded like someone was revving the engine. Figured it was on its way out so I retired in favor of the Thermaltake ST0021U Max 5. Got it at nu egg dot com.
> 
> This enclosure is unbelievably quiet, I had to put my hand next to the fans to make sure it was working. It has only been operational for 18 hours or so, but I recommend it so far. :joy:


The thing with all these large fan enclosures is they get full of dust eventually. Hence extra weight and friction on the fan blades and bearings. Then they get noisy and wear out fast when dirty. They all need to be cleaned with compressed air periodically. Even the exposed dock can appreciate a quick squirt once in a while. I mostly use the cheap rosewill with single 3" fan. That dual fan thermaltake puts mine to shame, but overkill for me.


----------



## Rich

kikkenit2 said:


> The thing with all these large fan enclosures is they get full of dust eventually. Hence extra weight and friction on the fan blades and bearings. Then they get noisy and wear out fast when dirty. They all need to be cleaned with compressed air periodically.


I agree with that. Dust and motor bearings don't get along. I always cleaned my MX-1s with compressed air occasionally. But the MX-1s I bought were usually noisy right out of the box. Putting them on foam pads helps quite a bit.



> Even the exposed dock can appreciate a quick squirt once in a while.


Certainly can't hurt, but I've examined mine several times using a flashlight and a magnifying glass and I've seen no accumulation of dust at all. At first, I was concerned about the exposed section of the HDD, but I've been assured that it's not a problem in any way.



> I mostly use the cheap rosewill with single 3" fan.


Weaknees used them for a while, don't know what they're using now.



> That dual fan thermaltake puts mine to shame, but overkill for me.


I've only seen pictures of it and read what other folks have said about it, but it sure looks neat.

Rich


----------



## Lord Vader

Speaking of compressed gas, imagine my surprise when a few months ago, I went to purchase a can and was asked for my ID! I got carded to buy compressed air, but I never get carded for alcohol. Go figure!


----------



## HDinVT

I did clean it, but after it started to get noisier than "normal". I've had it for a while. I suspect you are right, if I'd done a little pm I'd have gotten more years out of it.



 rich584 said:


> I agree with that. Dust and motor bearings don't get along. I always cleaned my MX-1s with compressed air occasionally. But the MX-1s I bought were usually noisy right out of the box. Putting them on foam pads helps quite a bit.
> 
> Certainly can't hurt, but I've examined mine several times using a flashlight and a magnifying glass and I've seen no accumulation of dust at all. At first, I was concerned about the exposed section of the HDD, but I've been assured that it's not a problem in any way.
> 
> Weaknees used them for a while, don't know what they're using now.
> 
> I've only seen pictures of it and read what other folks have said about it, but it sure looks neat.
> 
> Rich


----------



## Rich

HDinVT said:


> I did clean it, but after it started to get noisier than "normal". I've had it for a while. I suspect you are right, if I'd done a little pm I'd have gotten more years out of it.


That "normal" noise is annoying enough. Did you try a foam pad? The easiest thing to do is buy a TT docking station. As long as the HDD is quiet, the TT is silent. Put a Seagate in a TT and you'll almost always hear that terrible chattering sound. Don't get any noise from my WD drives.

Rich


----------



## FHSPSU67

Thanks to this thread I've ordered this $103.98 shipped combo from NewEgg. Amazing price for 2TB HR25-500

1 x ($33.99) EXT ENC TT|ST0005U R $33.99
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1 x ($69.99) HD 2T|WD WD20EARS 64M % - OEM $69.99


----------



## David Ortiz

FHSPSU67 said:


> Thanks to this thread I've ordered this $103.98 shipped combo from NewEgg. Amazing price for 2TB HR25-500
> 
> 1 x ($33.99) EXT ENC TT|ST0005U R $33.99
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 1 x ($69.99) HD 2T|WD WD20EARS 64M % - OEM $69.99


Newegg has a $15 rebate for the ST0005U as well.


----------



## FHSPSU67

Yep, I saw that. Thanks anyway for the reminder for those interested besides me


----------



## HDinVT

rich584 said:


> That "normal" noise is annoying enough. Did you try a foam pad? The easiest thing to do is buy a TT docking station. As long as the HDD is quiet, the TT is silent. Put a Seagate in a TT and you'll almost always hear that terrible chattering sound. Don't get any noise from my WD drives.
> 
> Rich


Never tried that. It was in the enterainment center in the living room, so it did not bother us much. I just looked it up, I got it at the yellow tag store 8/18/2008. So its a little over 3 years old, and like I said I could have maintained it better. I put it up in a closet, might come in handy someday.


----------



## Lord Vader

This is unbelievable! I've gone through *SIX *frickin' eSata cables trying to connect my WD and its enclosure to my HR24-500. The cables fit fine into the TT enclosure, but nothing I do lets me connect it to the HR24. I'm at wit's end. I can insert it about halfway, but that's all she wrote. It just *won't* go in any farther. All this trying caused that tiny metal clip-like thing to bend outward even more, further preventing the cable from going in.

Is there some kind of secret to getting an eSata cable connected to an HR24-500? I _*never *_had this problem on my HR20-700s. One cable, one immediate connection. With the HR24, no cable I've tried will fit snugly into the receiver. My fingers are even sore trying to twist and push and jiggle the thing in.


----------



## Lord Vader

rich584 said:


> Well, you could try it. Nothing to lose. But I had three 500s that did the same thing. Turned in two of them and gave up on the external drive and installed a new EVDS internally. I do own that 500. Might have been an incompatibility with the Thermaltake docking station altho I did try two of them and both times the same things happened. Could have been the EVDS drives, but I tried two of them too.
> 
> Try an EARS with an Antec MX-1 enclosure, that might work.
> 
> Rich


That didn't make a difference for me, unfortunately. First, the only way I could get an eSata cable to fit into my HR24-500 was to remove those two silver, metal "guards" (for lack of better terminology) on each side of the end's connector. After I did this, the cable fit into my HR24. However, I can't get it to recognize the WD EARS I have.


----------



## Rich

Lord Vader said:


> That didn't make a difference for me, unfortunately. First, the only way I could get an eSata cable to fit into my HR24-500 was to remove those two silver, metal "guards" (for lack of better terminology) on each side of the end's connector. After I did this, the cable fit into my HR24. However, I can't get it to recognize the WD EARS I have.


You might try a new 24. I've never had a problem with getting the external devices I have recognized by the 500s or any other HR. If you've gone thru six jumper cables I'd definitely be looking at the 500 rather than the cables. I don't remember ever having a problem with any eSATA to eSATA cable.

What external device/s are you using? I know the MX-1s and TTs will be recognized by the 500s. I've got three EARS 2TB HDDs and they all work well. Never tried them on the 500s, tho. I know the EVDS drives will be recognized by the 500s, I just couldn't keep them working on the 500s.

Rich


----------



## bsandy

I just installed an Iomega DVR Expander (1TB) on a HR20-100 last night.

Flawless installation.

. . . Bud


----------



## inkahauts

"Lord Vader" said:


> This is unbelievable! I've gone through SIX frickin' eSata cables trying to connect my WD and its enclosure to my HR24-500. The cables fit fine into the TT enclosure, but nothing I do lets me connect it to the HR24. I'm at wit's end. I can insert it about halfway, but that's all she wrote. It just won't go in any farther. All this trying caused that tiny metal clip-like thing to bend outward even more, further preventing the cable from going in.
> 
> Is there some kind of secret to getting an eSata cable connected to an HR24-500? I never had this problem on my HR20-700s. One cable, one immediate connection. With the HR24, no cable I've tried will fit snugly into the receiver. My fingers are even sore trying to twist and push and jiggle the thing in.


I haven't had this problem, so it's not a hr24 problem, it could be just a your unit problem with something defective with the connector...not sure.


----------



## Lord Vader

rich584 said:


> You might try a new 24.


That's not going to work. DirecTV is not going to send me a replacement HR24-500 for this 1-year-old unit just because an eSata cable won't fit.



> What external device/s are you using? I know the MX-1s and TTs will be recognized by the 500s. I've got three EARS 2TB HDDs and they all work well. Never tried them on the 500s, tho. I know the EVDS drives will be recognized by the 500s, I just couldn't keep them working on the 500s.
> 
> Rich


I'm using the TT enclosure. BTW, are its fans supposed to be spinning 24/7 or only when the unit gets warm? On this note, how can one tell if the drive is actually spinning? It's so quiet I was just wanting to make sure the drive is actually spinning. It _*sounded *_like it did when I turned it on, but now it's difficult to tell.



inkahauts said:


> I haven't had this problem, so it's not a hr24 problem, it could be just a your unit problem with something defective with the connector...not sure.


It's got to be that if all these cables have a tough time fitting into the HR24.


----------



## P Smith

Lord Vader said:


> I'm using the TT enclosure. BTW, are its fans supposed to be spinning 24/7 or only when the unit gets warm? On this note, *how can one tell if the drive is actually spinning*? It's so quiet I was just wanting to make sure the drive is actually spinning. It _*sounded *_like it did when I turned it on, but now it's difficult to tell.


Grab the enclosure, slow twist it in one direction , 40-90 degree - you will feel gyroscopic effect if the drive is rotating.


----------



## Lord Vader

It checks out OK. The fans are spinning as well. Now if I can just figure out why my HR24-500 won't recognize it.


----------



## Rich

Lord Vader said:


> That's not going to work. DirecTV is not going to send me a replacement HR24-500 for this 1-year-old unit just because an eSata cable won't fit.


They've always given me a 24 for a 24. I know I'm not alone.



> I'm using the TT enclosure. BTW, are its fans supposed to be spinning 24/7 or only when the unit gets warm? On this note, how can one tell if the drive is actually spinning? It's so quiet I was just wanting to make sure the drive is actually spinning. It _*sounded *_like it did when I turned it on, but now it's difficult to tell.


The drive should start spinning as soon as the unit is plugged in. You should be waiting about a minute for the drive to spin up before plugging the HR in. I've never had a TT enclosure. Have no idea how you tell if the drive is spinning. Using the TT docking stations you can tell by holding your hand on the drive itself and when the drive is recognized a pink light flashes next to the power light.



> It's got to be that if all these cables have a tough time fitting into the HR24.


That's what I'd think too. I've never had a problem putting a jumper cable in an HR. Might be a one of a kind defect.

Rich


----------



## Rich

P Smith said:


> Grab the enclosure, slow twist it in one direction , 40-90 degree - you will feel gyroscopic effect if the drive is rotating.


Good catch. Forgot about that. Never had an external device with such a problem.

Rich


----------



## Lord Vader

rich584 said:


> That's what I'd think too. I've never had a problem putting a jumper cable in an HR. Might be a one of a kind defect.
> 
> Rich


My only other attempt is to wait for some cables from Monoprice to come in. I used several different eSata ones I had here at home. Maybe one from Monoprice will work. I don't know.


----------



## Lord Vader

I think the problem has been resolved. I had an extra Antec MX-1 enclosure lying around new-in-box. I switched to that and my HR24-500 immediately recognized it. (I'll return the TT enclosure, which didn't work.) BTW, one question--the new HD GUI we've downloaded via CE. Is that kept on the hard drive? I declined for the box to download new software at the moment but will do so shortly. Right now, if it downloads the latest software, the national release, the HD GUI isn't in it, so it would revert to the old GUI, right?

Of course, I could just wait till this weekend's CE to update the GUI if need be.


----------



## inkahauts

Lord Vader said:


> It's got to be that if all these cables have a tough time fitting into the HR24.


I have used a cable that comes with an antec mx1 enclosure, and I have used a couple from monoprice. I wonder if your connector is just broke. I assume you are double checking and making sure your inserting it the right way, since it can only go in one way. I did that once and got real mad, then realized I was blindish..


----------



## P Smith

Lord Vader said:


> I think the problem has been resolved. I had an extra Antec MX-1 enclosure lying around new-in-box. I switched to that and my HR24-500 immediately recognized it. (I'll return the TT enclosure, which didn't work.) BTW, one question--the new HD GUI we've downloaded via CE. Is that kept on the hard drive? I declined for the box to download new software at the moment but will do so shortly. Right now, if it downloads the latest software, the national release, the HD GUI isn't in it, so it would revert to the old GUI, right?
> 
> Of course, I could just wait till this weekend's CE to update the GUI if need be.


It's FW, no big deal to lost HDD with icons, all those parts will be dl-ed later, but if you'll get NR, then kaput. Actually, I'm inclined to think all those CE 'heavy' parts stored inside NAND (internal non-volatile flash chip 8 Gb size).


----------



## Lord Vader

Huh???


----------



## Rich

Lord Vader said:


> Huh???


He thinks the GUI is stored on the flash chips. I think so too. You weren't by chance using eSATA to SATA cables were you?

Rich


----------



## CCarncross

shhh, 1st rule of fight club.....part of that conversation needs to be in another forum guys


----------



## Lord Vader

rich584 said:


> He thinks the GUI is stored on the flash chips. I think so too. You weren't by chance using eSATA to SATA cables were you?
> 
> Rich


No, I was using the correct cables.

Anyway, as I mentioned above, the problem has been resolved, thankfully.


----------



## Lord Vader

How does one get back the ability to use YouTube in the search engine? Obviously, when I added the external hard drive, many of my settings and information were lost, among them the ability to do a keyword YouTube search. I thought entering the old "UTUB30N" term would do the trick, but when I tried that, it just kept searching for that and wouldn't stop. I had to press the cancel option to get back to the menu or screen. As of now, I can't search on YouTube on my HR24-500.


----------



## CCarncross

Since you were doing maintenance on your device, it will take a little while for some of the features to come back, remember it has to repopulate all the guide data, etc...


----------



## P Smith

Or use good find of cigar95 - copy those system files/settings/etc from old drive (what is support those features) drive to new one without re-init; just do xfs_dump|xfs_restore and it will make combination of both, you'll preserve new recordings and will inherit old lists.


----------



## TigerGirlDsM

This thread seems to have gone off track. Every request for an updated list points to this thread, but there isn't a list posted in the last 10+ pages. I don't really need to know what worked in 2009 and I don't understand most of the specs/jargon in most of these posts. 

D* doesn't have anything over 1TB on their website. Are there any decent 2TB HDDs that will work with an HR24-100?

Thanks bunches!!


----------



## P Smith

Why not start reading backwards ? From last pages, while you'll not see your model and FW version (BTW, you didn't inform us about the IMPORTANT piece).

Then you will get latest working HDD models for latest FW versions.
Or reading is not your cup of tea ?


----------



## TigerGirlDsM

I said "posted in the last 10+ pages". 

And I don't understand your jargon. What is "FW"? "Enclosure"? Is that different than a hard drive? 

A lot of the posts in here say that an HDD that worked fine on an older model does not work on the newer HR24-X00, so if the model isn't listed with the setup, how do I know if it will work?

I have a WD2000H1Q-2000. It's plugged into the receiver with an "eSATA" cable. I unplugged the HR24-100, plugged in the hard drive power, plugged in the eSATA to the drive and the receiver, waited a few minutes, then plugged in the receiver.

The box either doesn't recognize the external drive at all, gives "Diagnostic Code: 75-878", or works for 15-20 minutes, then the picture freezes, the receiver won't take any inputs, but the sound continues. 

I really just want to know what "Plug and Play" HDDs will work with the HR24-100. It did download some new software today.

I really didn't think this would be this difficult... :hair:


----------



## Wmidwest

TigerGirlDsM said:


> This thread seems to have gone off track. Every request for an updated list points to this thread, but there isn't a list posted in the last 10+ pages. I don't really need to know what worked in 2009 and I don't understand most of the specs/jargon in most of these posts.
> 
> D* doesn't have anything over 1TB on their website. Are there any decent 2TB HDDs that will work with an HR24-100?
> 
> Thanks bunches!!


I agree this stuff is getting way too techy. (coming from a retired ET with 40 some odd years of electronics work). For optional esata drives try searching @ WD sites. I picked one I think called My Book AV DVR Expander. It came out in 2010. I think maybe both 1 & 2 TB. Mine's been working super for about a month. Whole home with 2 other DVRs. 50% free basement 60% free living room 70% free bedroom. All DVRs working super fast with 2 working with OTA & RF remotes. See my profile for equipment.


----------



## Rich

TigerGirlDsM said:


> This thread seems to have gone off track. Every request for an updated list points to this thread, but there isn't a list posted in the last 10+ pages. I don't really need to know what worked in 2009 and I don't understand most of the specs/jargon in most of these posts.
> 
> D* doesn't have anything over 1TB on their website. Are there any decent 2TB HDDs that will work with an HR24-100?
> 
> Thanks bunches!!


Yes, the WD 2TB EURS, EVDS, EADS, EARS and EARX will all work with the 24-100s.

Rich


----------



## Rich

TigerGirlDsM said:


> I said "posted in the last 10+ pages".
> 
> And I don't understand your jargon. What is "FW"? "Enclosure"? Is that different than a hard drive?


Firm Ware. It's what you receive when you get a National Release update. Enclosure is what you put an HDD in to use externally. We recommend the Antec MX-1 enclosure or the ThermalTake docking station.



> A lot of the posts in here say that an HDD that worked fine on an older model does not work on the newer HR24-X00, so if the model isn't listed with the setup, how do I know if it will work?


By doing exactly what you are doing. Just ask the question and one of us will happily answer.



> I have a WD2000H1Q-2000. It's plugged into the receiver with an "eSATA" cable. I unplugged the HR24-100, plugged in the hard drive power, plugged in the eSATA to the drive and the receiver, waited a few minutes, then plugged in the receiver.
> 
> The box either doesn't recognize the external drive at all, gives "Diagnostic Code: 75-878", or works for 15-20 minutes, then the picture freezes, the receiver won't take any inputs, but the sound continues.
> 
> I really just want to know what "Plug and Play" HDDs will work with the HR24-100. It did download some new software today.


On the label of the HDD there should be a model designation. EARS, EVDS, EURS, something like that. Let us know what the label says.



> I really didn't think this would be this difficult... :hair:


It rarely is.

Rich


----------



## Rich

P Smith said:


> Why not start reading backwards ? From last pages, while you'll not see your model and FW version (BTW, you didn't inform us about the IMPORTANT piece).
> 
> Then you will get latest working HDD models for latest FW versions.
> Or reading is not your cup of tea ?


Pete, you are turning into a curmudgeon....:lol:

And you're causing confusion. Who is gonna read these long threads when they should be able to just ask a simple question and have it politely answered?

Rich


----------



## P Smith

It's my dark side when I see such question like 'gimme, gimme .. because I've _read_ [nothing] or the thread is old or the thread is long or I don't want to read at all ' - perhaps I'm turning into Lord Vader's apprentice.  :goodandba:bang


----------



## Rich

P Smith said:


> It's my dark side when I see such question like 'gimme, gimme .. because I've _read_ [nothing] or the thread is old or the thread is long or I don't want to read at all ' - perhaps I'm turning into Lord Vader's apprentice.  :goodandba:bang


Well, at least I've never seen you call anybody "stupid".

Rich


----------



## Lord Vader

P Smith said:


> It's my dark side when I see such question like 'gimme, gimme .. because I've _read_ [nothing] or the thread is old or the thread is long or I don't want to read at all ' - perhaps I'm turning into Lord Vader's apprentice.  :goodandba:bang


EXCELLENT! :evilgrin:



Rich said:


> Well, at least I've never seen you call anybody "stupid".
> 
> Rich


Now that's an idiotic remark. :raspberry


----------



## TigerGirlDsM

Rich said:


> By doing exactly what you are doing. Just ask the question and one of us will happily answer.
> 
> On the label of the HDD there should be a model designation. EARS, EVDS, EURS, something like that. Let us know what the label says.
> 
> Rich


Thanks for the help!! 

I finally got the box off the HDD; it's an EADS. Here's a picture of it in case I'm reading it wrong.










Can I plug the drive into my computer to see if it's bad? I bought it off ebay, so it's entirely possible. I don't want my computer to format it to something my receiver can't use.

Thanks!


----------



## P Smith

Sure, you should start testing it first - download Victoria 4.46b and take SMART data first, post the picture here, then run Scan with Remap=on and after that get SMART again and pot it too.


----------



## Rich

TigerGirlDsM said:


> Thanks for the help!!
> 
> I finally got the box off the HDD; it's an EADS. Here's a picture of it in case I'm reading it wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can I plug the drive into my computer to see if it's bad? I bought it off ebay, so it's entirely possible. I don't want my computer to format it to something my receiver can't use.
> 
> Thanks!


I'd just put it on the HR and let it format. If there's something wrong with it, the HR will tell you. All the years I've been putting HDDs in DVRs and I've never hooked one up to a computer.

Rich


----------



## P Smith

Rich, you telling about new drives from factory, his is different and came from eBay, hence the test must be done. For his confidence and reliable work of the DVR.

[BTW, no need to re post the huge picture - it's cluttering the thread and unnecessary redundant]


----------



## Rich

P Smith said:


> Rich, you telling about new drives from factory, his is different and came from eBay, hence the test must be done. For his confidence and reliable work of the DVR.
> 
> [BTW, no need to re post the huge picture - it's cluttering the thread and unnecessary redundant]


I'd still just put it in the HR and see if it works.

Rich


----------



## P Smith

Rich said:


> I'd still just put it in the HR and see if it works.
> 
> Rich


Perhaps by trade and experience I came from other side: when you doing a job for someone else (well, it become a good habit for any job), or making an advise like here - in a forum, the approach is not what should be. Especially for a component with unknown status/history.


----------



## Volman

Rich said:


> I'd still just put it in the HR and see if it works.
> 
> Rich


I would,too!

Fred


----------



## Lord Vader

TigerGirlDsM said:


> This thread seems to have gone off track. Every request for an updated list points to this thread, but there isn't a list posted in the last 10+ pages. I don't really need to know what worked in 2009 and I don't understand most of the specs/jargon in most of these posts.
> 
> D* doesn't have anything over 1TB on their website. Are there any decent 2TB HDDs that will work with an HR24-100?
> 
> Thanks bunches!!


Perhaps we should talk about tail lights.


----------



## Rich

P Smith said:


> Perhaps by trade and experience I came from other side: when you doing a job for someone else (well, it become a good habit for any job), or making an advise like here - in a forum, the approach is not what should be. Especially for a component with unknown status/history.


That's your opinion and you're more than welcome to express it. You know I disagree and there's really little to be gained by arguing about it. There's simply no downside to just sticking the EADS on the HR and seeing if it works. Why complicate things? She was looking for a simple solution and I gave it to her.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Volman said:


> I would,too!
> 
> Fred


Always good to hear from you, Fred.

Rich


----------



## P Smith

I think because it's my professional experience prevailing against 1-2-3 approach ... and I'm really want to avoid hassles with unknown drive..


----------



## Volman

P Smith said:


> I think because it's my professional experience prevailing against 1-2-3 approach ... and I'm really want to avoid hassles with unknown drive..


To me, and I believe this is Rich's reasoning as well, there is so little to lose (risk) versus a lot to gain (reward), that putting the drive into an HR makes much more sense than your position.

Fred


----------



## Volman

Rich said:


> Always good to hear from you, Fred.
> 
> Rich


Same here, Rich. I've ben around, but Forums have been kinda slow!

Fred


----------



## Rich

Volman said:


> Same here, Rich. I've ben around, but Forums have been kinda slow!
> 
> Fred


They have been slow, I think that's a good thing. Reflects the stability of the HRs and the supporting systems.

Rich


----------



## TigerGirlDsM

Rich said:


> I'd just put it on the HR and let it format. If there's something wrong with it, the HR will tell you. All the years I've been putting HDDs in DVRs and I've never hooked one up to a computer.
> 
> Rich


This is the drive I've been trying, I just opened the case it came it. I'd really rather not open my HR-24 because it's leased, so I can't install the HDD directly. I'm guessing the 75-787 code I've been getting at boot from the HR means there's something wrong with the drive, but I don't know if it's compatibility or malfunction. Based on your experience, it's probably malfunction. That's what I get from shopping on ebay!

P Smith, I looked at the Victoria software. WAY to complicated for me!


----------



## Rich

TigerGirlDsM said:


> This is the drive I've been trying, I just opened the case it came it. I'd really rather not open my HR-24 because it's leased, so I can't install the HDD directly. I'm guessing the 75-787 code I've been getting at boot from the HR means there's something wrong with the drive, but I don't know if it's compatibility or malfunction. Based on your experience, it's probably malfunction. That's what I get from shopping on ebay!
> 
> P Smith, I looked at the Victoria software. WAY to complicated for me!


Have you got an enclosure such as an Antec MX-1 or a docking station that you can put the EADS in?

Here is a *link* to the MX-1 and a *link* to the Thermaltake docking station.

I prefer the docking station, I have several and have no problems with them. And they cost about half as much and are easily returnable if the EADS is truly shot (which I doubt).

Rich


----------



## Rich

TigerGirlDsM said:


> This is the drive I've been trying, I just opened the case it came it. I'd really rather not open my HR-24 because it's leased, so I can't install the HDD directly. I'm guessing the 75-787 code I've been getting at boot from the HR means there's something wrong with the drive, but I don't know if it's compatibility or malfunction. Based on your experience, it's probably malfunction. That's what I get from shopping on ebay!


So, that EADS came in an eSATA enclosure? Most of the time, it's the enclosure that's causing the problem. Give the docking station a try.

Rich


----------



## TigerGirlDsM

Thanks for the help, Rich! I'll look into the dock. 

This post should give me enough to reply to PMs!


----------



## Lsol

Will the Seagate ST1500DL003 work with a HR21-700?


----------



## Rich

Lsol said:


> Will the Seagate ST1500DL003 work with a HR21-700?


Pretty sure it will work, but you have to realize you'll get no benefit from the 6Gbs transfer rate. Still, a bit cheaper than a WD is now.

Rich


----------



## Lsol

Rich said:


> Pretty sure it will work, but you have to realize you'll get no benefit from the 6Gbs transfer rate. Still, a bit cheaper than a WD is now.
> 
> Rich


I was using the drive in an HR24,but it didn't work that well in it.


----------



## Rich

Lsol said:


> I was using the drive in an HR24,but it didn't work that well in it.


I've only used Seagates in 20-700s and they got so noisy I got rid of all of them. I tried a couple on 21s and they didn't work well either. I've learned to stay away from the Seagates, especially the Seagate Barracudas. I'm sure other people will now disagree with my experiences with the Seagates, but all I can base my opinion on is what I went thru with them. I stick to the WDs now, but with the flooding in Thailand, the WDs are priced rather high. Just a few months ago they were selling for ~ $70. Better to wait until things get straightened out and the prices get lower, if you care about money.

Three years ago, WD was selling its 2TBs for $300, so when you look at their prices today, they're really not that bad. If I needed one, I'd buy it.

Rich


----------



## Starrbuck

Rich said:


> With the flooding in Thailand, the WDs are priced rather high. Just a few months ago they were selling for ~ $70.


I do not think there is an HD company that did not have their facilities where the floods were, so all prices are generally up depending on current stock levels and demand.


----------



## P Smith

Starrbuck said:


> I do not think there is an *HD company* that did not have their facilities where the floods were, so all prices are generally up depending on current stock levels and demand.


means *HDD* manufacturing company


----------



## cigar95

TigerGirlDsM said:


> . . . . I unplugged the HR24-100, plugged in the hard drive power, plugged in the eSATA to the drive and the receiver, waited a few minutes, then plugged in the receiver. . . .


I know I'm a bit late to the discussion, but this sequence could be part of the problem.

If you connected or disconnected the eSATA cable while the drive was powered on, you may well have trashed files on the drive, in such a way that the behavior is unpredictable. The file directory may be corrupted, but partially intact. eSATA is not hot-swap friendly the way that USB is.

A possibility is to plug it in again, this time making the eSATA connection only when both DVR and HDD are powered off, then powering up and rebooting. Except this time, you would force the DVR to reformat the external drive and start with a fresh system. (I admit, I don't recall the key sequence for forcing a reformat, but the guys who regularly hang out on this thread certainly will.)

This would wipe out any recordings you had on there, but it doesn't sound like this drive has lasted long enough to actually make any recordings anyway. (If you had recordings you wanted to preserve, there *is* a way to do it, but trust me, you don't want to go there.)

If even a reformat (actually more like a reinitialize) fails, then P Smith's diagnostic suggestion makes sense if you still want to pursue using this drive. (I think I know what Rich's suggestion would be at that point!)


----------



## Rich

cigar95 said:


> I know I'm a bit late to the discussion, but this sequence could be part of the problem.
> 
> If you connected or disconnected the eSATA cable while the drive was powered on, you may well have trashed files on the drive, in such a way that the behavior is unpredictable. The file directory may be corrupted, but partially intact. eSATA is not hot-swap friendly the way that USB is.
> 
> A possibility is to plug it in again, this time making the eSATA connection only when both DVR and HDD are powered off, then powering up and rebooting. Except this time, you would force the DVR to reformat the external drive and start with a fresh system. (I admit, I don't recall the key sequence for forcing a reformat, but the guys who regularly hang out on this thread certainly will.)
> 
> This would wipe out any recordings you had on there, but it doesn't sound like this drive has lasted long enough to actually make any recordings anyway. (If you had recordings you wanted to preserve, there *is* a way to do it, but trust me, you don't want to go there.)


The eSATA to eSATA jumper cable should be installed with the power off on both the HR and the external device. Once in place, it should not be touched in any way, if possible. Then the external device containing the HDD should be plugged in and allowed to spin up. The last step should be to plug in the HR. And deviation could result in the HR not recognizing the external drive.



> If even a reformat (actually more like a reinitialize) fails, then P Smith's diagnostic suggestion makes sense if you still want to pursue using this drive. (*I think I know what Rich's suggestion would be at that point!*)


I'd send that sucker back to WD and get a replacement. The EADS are very reliable HDDs and I think if the EADS in question is put in a new external device it will work. If it still doesn't work, I'd either send it back or junk it and never buy an HDD or eSATA on eBay again. Some things I don't mind buying on eBay, but electronics, for the most part, are iffy items at best.

Rich


----------



## mocarob

"The eSATA to eSATA jumper cable should be installed with the power off on both the HR and the external device. Once in place, it should not be touched in any way, if possible. Then the external device containing the HDD should be plugged in and allowed to spin up. The last step should be to plug in the HR. And deviation could result in the HR not recognizing the external drive."

That may be the perfect way of doing it but just as an fyi, I plug in the esata cable to the dvr (already on), then power up the External drive, then reboot the dvr. it works for me.


----------



## rsblaski

mocarob said:


> snip <That may be the perfect way of doing it but just as an fyi, I plug in the esata cable to the dvr (already on), then power up the External drive, then reboot the dvr. it works for me.


I've done two the same way. Easy and quicker than reaching around to pull power cords out of the dvr.


----------



## Rich

mocarob said:


> "The eSATA to eSATA jumper cable should be installed with the power off on both the HR and the external device. Once in place, it should not be touched in any way, if possible. Then the external device containing the HDD should be plugged in and allowed to spin up. The last step should be to plug in the HR. And deviation could result in the HR not recognizing the external drive."
> 
> That may be the perfect way of doing it but just as an fyi, I plug in the esata cable to the dvr (already on), then power up the External drive, then reboot the dvr. it works for me.


I've done that just to see what would happen. Worked with some externals, didn't with others. I've also tried other ways of booting up with externals and screwed up some external devices. Never wrecked an HDD, but the external devices didn't hold up so well. My advice is founded on what I've experienced and it's the only way I do it now. I'm done with experimenting, I'm satisfied that my way will work...hmm, can't really say every time, but damn near every time. I have had some MX-1s that failed to recognize the HR using my method. Just happened today with my last MX-1. Just couldn't get the HR to recognize the HDD. Put my last Thermaltake docking station on the HR and it worked perfectly the first time.

I think I'm done with the MX-1s at this point. I've never had a TT docking station fail and I think this is the third MX-1 that has failed.

When I removed the HDD from the MX-1, the MX-1 was filled with dust. Don't know whether the dust had anything to do with the thing failing, but it certainly might have.

Rich


----------



## Lord Vader

I've *never *had a TT fail, because I've never been able to get them to work in the first place!


----------



## Rich

Lord Vader said:


> I've *never *had a TT fail, because I've never been able to get them to work in the first place!


They are so simple to setup. Can't imagine anyone having problems with them.

Rich


----------



## Lord Vader

I'm not just "anyone."


----------



## Rich

Lord Vader said:


> I'm not just "anyone."


No, you're a person who can't get the simplest external device I've ever used to work. The only person that I know of. I guess that makes you kind of special.

Rich


----------



## Lord Vader

The MX-1 is far simpler than the TT.


----------



## CCarncross

The only thing I don't like about the TT docks is the drives run much warmer in them than they do in the MX-1. I've disconnected MX-1's that have been running literally for months and the drives are cool to the touch, can't say the same for a drive in a TT dock. If past history is any indicator, a drive in a TT could fail sooner because of heat. Heat is one of the worst predators to a HDD. Truthfully I find both external setups easy to use, just less work to hook up the dock than installing a drive in the MX-1...with the TT you just attach it up and insert drive...very easy to use multiple externals with one dvr that way if you so choose.


----------



## Rich

CCarncross said:


> The only thing I don't like about the TT docks is the drives run much warmer in them than they do in the MX-1. I've disconnected MX-1's that have been running literally for months and the drives are cool to the touch, can't say the same for a drive in a TT dock. If past history is any indicator, a drive in a TT could fail sooner because of heat. Heat is one of the worst predators to a HDD. Truthfully I find both external setups easy to use, just less work to hook up the dock than installing a drive in the MX-1...with the TT you just attach it up and insert drive...very easy to use multiple externals with one dvr that way if you so choose.


Well, I agree with you about the heat, but only time will tell and we just haven't been using the TTs long enough to really know how long an HDD is gonna last. I've decided not to just throw that MX-1 away. I've gonna clean the board that the HDD plugs into and see if it will work.

I've never been a big believer in "carbon paths", as the old electricians used to call abnormal paths between energized components that actually caused the components to short out. I've only ever seen one incident that could truly be blamed on a "carbon path" and the path was actually carbon based. Would dust cause the problems I had yesterday with my last MX-1? I'll find out as soon as I clean it and test it.

Rich


----------



## weattv

Rich said:


> That "grinding noise" is an indication of a shot HDD. Dump it.
> 
> I prefer the Thermaltake docking stations, but the MX-1s work well too. And I only recommend the EVDS line of WD HDDs. They just work well and are less of a hassle.
> 
> There are so many posts in the eSATA threads that I don't know how anyone could make a good decision. Better to post in one of those threads and ask your questions. We all get notifications as soon as the post goes on the forum and someone will help you quickly.
> 
> Rich


Thank you, Rich! We've had good luck since Aug. 2008 with a Seagate FAP 1TB connected to an HR20-100. It used to run hot but that was fixed by putting a fan next to it, on advice we got here. But it suddenly started freezing up very badly in playback & in remote commands. (The DVR still works fine without the external.)

For a long time, you could feel the drive clunking in the enclosure. That got worse, as well as the number of times it took to start it up after a power failure.

I guess we can

(1) get an enclosure (but not the MX-1) in case the disk isn't too damaged, or

(2) get a new drive & try to transfer the data ourselves using the SATA port on the laptop, or have a store tech do it.

Can a computer know-nothing transfer the data without possibly erasing it all?

Which current drives do you recommended? Are all internal, requiring separate housing?

Thanks for any advice or links!


----------



## CCarncross

The whole process is outlined here:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=167440

If can follow the instructions to the "t" it works very well.


----------



## Rich

weattv said:


> Thank you, Rich! We've had good luck since Aug. 2008 with a Seagate FAP 1TB connected to an HR20-100. It used to run hot but that was fixed by putting a fan next to it, on advice we got here. But it suddenly started freezing up very badly in playback & in remote commands. (The DVR still works fine without the external.)
> 
> For a long time, you could feel the drive clunking in the enclosure. That got worse, as well as the number of times it took to start it up after a power failure.


From past experiences with the FAPs, if you got more than two years out of one, you've done well.



> I guess we can
> 
> (1) get an enclosure (but not the MX-1) in case the disk isn't too damaged


You can use *this* instead of an enclosure. Easy to install and silent.



> (2) get a new drive & try to transfer the data ourselves using the SATA port on the laptop, or have a store tech do it.
> 
> Can a computer know-nothing transfer the data without possibly erasing it all?


*CCarncross *has provided you with a link to do this. Just follow the instructions on that link.



> Which current drives do you recommended? Are all internal, requiring separate housing?


We recommend only internal drives and list several external devices to put them in to make your own eSATA. For HDDs, Western Digital is our choice. And most of the Green Caviar drives seem to work well externally with the HRs. Try to find an EADS, EARS, EARX, EVDS or EURS at a reasonable price. They'll all work with any HR. I think. I also think that when you dig the HDD out of the FAP, you'll find the HDD still is functional.

Rich


----------



## edpowers

Lord Vader said:


> The MX-1 is far simpler than the TT.


What can be simpler than a TT? You just shove the drive in like you'd shove a game cartridge into a Super Nintendo. My 3 year old could figure it out.


----------



## Rich

edpowers said:


> What can be simpler than a TT? You just shove the drive in like you'd shove a game cartridge into a Super Nintendo. My 3 year old could figure it out.


I'm at a loss for words.

Rich


----------



## Drew2k

Rich said:


> I'm at a loss for words.
> 
> Rich


Quick! Mark the date and time!!!!


----------



## Rich

Drew2k said:


> Quick! Mark the date and time!!!!


Well, what do you say to someone who thinks a TT is hard to hookup, without being nasty?.....:lol:

Rich


----------



## P Smith

Left only noted that fact - some ppl cannot control such simple thing as Nintendo cartridge.


----------



## Davenlr

P Smith said:


> Left only noted that fact - some ppl cannot control such simple thing as Nintendo cartridge.


I still try to plus in USB connectors upside down if that counts


----------



## Laxguy

Davenlr said:


> I still try to plus in USB connectors upside down if that counts


Solution: glue tiny LED to top of connector- ie, the right side up. Kinda annoying when the port is vertical though! :sure:


----------



## evan_s

I hate the standard usb port design as there is no easy or obvious up or down on it. The B port on the back of printers etc, the mini and even micro usb are fine as they are decently keyed and pretty easy to get right.


----------



## Laxguy

evan_s said:


> I hate the standard usb port design as there is no easy or obvious up or down on it. The B port on the back of printers etc, the mini and even micro usb are fine as they are decently keyed and pretty easy to get right.


Well, I am sure there are a number of exceptions, but in the several dozen items I have that have a USB port, the orientation is always the same: the white flange on the interior is on the top when the unit is in its normal position, so the plug just needs to be right side up.


----------



## P Smith

:backtotop
USB is not the topic of the thread. Please stop derailing it.
:backtotop


----------



## Laxguy

There are no firewire ports on DIRECTV® STBs.


----------



## Rich

Davenlr said:


> I still try to plus in USB connectors upside down if that counts


Me too. Would it be so hard to put "Top" on the damn things?

Rich


----------



## Rich

P Smith said:


> USB is not the topic of the thread. Please stop derailing it.


We have Moderators making big bucks to Moderate. We've gone off topic on this thread for years and it's usually interesting. I always wondered if anyone else had the same problems with the USB plugs.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Laxguy said:


> There are no firewire ports on DIRECTV® STBs.


I've never used firewire for anything. What's it good for? Just faster than USB and slower than SATA?

Rich


----------



## Drew2k

All of my USB cable plugs have the USB symbol on one side and the other is usually blank or has a code on it. For horizontal ports (that are installed correctly) plug it in with the USB symbol up... easy breezy!


----------



## Mike Bertelson

Let's get back to recommended drives. If you want to discuss ports start another thread.

:backtotop

Mike


----------



## Jason Whiddon

Signing back up, have an HR34 install on order.

Thermaltake is out because I already have a Duet with dual drives fro my Oppo 93, just no more room. I need something flat so i can hide it, and plug into my UPS.

I'm not real familiar with external enclosures, and WD does not make an esata drive at 2TB, soo, Im guessing MX-1 from reading here?

Any other enclosure's to look at? Will look at using a standard WD 2TB drive. I still may buy a BlacX single, dunno yet.


----------



## Rich

elwaylite said:


> Signing back up, have an HR34 install on order.
> 
> Thermaltake is out because I already have a Duet with dual drives fro my Oppo 93, just no more room. I need something flat so i can hide it, and plug into my UPS.
> 
> I'm not real familiar with external enclosures, and WD does not make an esata drive at 2TB, soo, Im guessing MX-1 from reading here?
> 
> Any other enclosure's to look at? Will look at using a standard WD 2TB drive. I still may buy a BlacX single, dunno yet.


My third MX-1 just crapped out on me the other day. I'm only using the TT BlacX models now. If you can fit one in your setup, that's what I'd buy. I just checked Amazon and I don't see any My Book 2TB eSATAs.

Rich


----------



## Jason Whiddon

Yeah, the only mybooks now are the AV, which Ive had great luck with, but they are limited at 1TB. I guess Ill just pickup a BlacX single and roll with the 2TB drive.


----------



## Jason Whiddon

Rich,

Amazon has the EARX and EARS for about the same, and of course the EARX http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digital-Caviar-Desktop-WD20EARX/dp/B004VFJ9MK/ref=dp_ob_title_ce is newer. Any one better than the other?


----------



## Rich

elwaylite said:


> Yeah, the only mybooks now are the AV, which Ive had great luck with, but they are limited at 1TB. I guess Ill just pickup a BlacX single and roll with the 2TB drive.


Easiest thing to do. We've seen problems with the Rosewill and Thermaltake enclosures, too. The TT enclosure looks really cool, but all it takes for me is a couple of posts about problems and, no matter how fancy it looks, I'm not gonna buy it. I've never had a problem with the TT docking stations.

Rich


----------



## Rich

elwaylite said:


> Rich,
> 
> Amazon has the EARX and EARS for about the same, and of course the EARX http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digital-Caviar-Desktop-WD20EARX/dp/B004VFJ9MK/ref=dp_ob_title_ce is newer. Any one better than the other?


You might try the EURS, it's made for DVRs. I've got three or four of the EARS and I've never had a problem with them. In fact, the only problem I've had with any WD HDD and a 24 was one overly noisy HDD, probably an EVDS, the other model made for DVRS. WD has stopped producing them, I think.

Rich


----------



## Rich

elwaylite said:


> Rich,
> 
> Amazon has the EARX and EARS for about the same, and of course the EARX http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digital-Caviar-Desktop-WD20EARX/dp/B004VFJ9MK/ref=dp_ob_title_ce is newer. Any one better than the other?


Wow! The price on the EARS and EARX really dropped! You might want to hold off for a couple weeks and see if they drop to the pre-flood prices. I paid about $70 each for my EARS before Thailand flooded.

Rich


----------



## Jason Whiddon

Rich said:


> You might try the EURS, it's made for DVRs. I've got three or four of the EARS and I've never had a problem with them. In fact, the only problem I've had with any WD HDD and a 24 was one overly noisy HDD, probably an EVDS, the other model made for DVRS. WD has stopped producing them, I think.
> 
> Rich


Looks like the DVR drive is now AV-GP.They are a good clip more for a 2TB. I think Ill just stick with the Green, thats what is in a mybook av AFAIK. Black is another option, and they are only $150 ish.


----------



## Jason Whiddon

Rich said:


> Wow! The price on the EARS and EARX really dropped! You might want to hold off for a couple weeks and see if they drop to the pre-flood prices. I paid about $70 each for my EARS before Thailand flooded.
> 
> Rich


Yeah, Ive noticed they are coming down. Im not gonna order until right before the install, so hopefully I can save a little. Im a prime member and can get it quickly.


----------



## Jason Whiddon

Actually, I have a new EARS 2TB drive that come out of a elements external I took apart 

Its plugged into my Duet and the Oppo, but not being used yet. I may just order the BlacX single, move that 2TB EARS to it for the HR34, and then take apart my Mybook AV, and used that 1TB drive along with the other 1TB drive to make 2TB for the Oppo.

Then again, I could not record OTA programming and save myself the hassle period . The one big plus to having an HR on an EHD, is if the EHD fails, you can go to the internal and not miss any recordings for the time being (assuming it still works) 

If you only use the internal, and it fails, well, you are waiting on a new box.


----------



## Rich

elwaylite said:


> Actually, I have a new EARS 2TB drive that come out of a elements external I took apart
> 
> Its plugged into my Duet and the Oppo, but not being used yet. I may just order the BlacX single, move that 2TB EARS to it for the HR34, and then take apart my Mybook AV, and used that 1TB drive along with the other 1TB drive to make 2TB for the Oppo.
> 
> Then again, I could not record OTA programming and save myself the hassle period . The one big plus to having an HR on an EHD, is if the EHD fails, you can go to the internal and not miss any recordings for the time being (assuming it still works)
> 
> If you only use the internal, and it fails, well, you are waiting on a new box.


The thing that really bothers me about the 34 is those five inputs and one HDD. As someone said, it's really not for "power users". I would fill that 2TB drive up pretty quickly and if the 34 failed, lose all that content. That problem could be solved by allowing any HR on an account to read and play the contents of any HDD on the same account. With the advent of the 34, that makes more sense than it ever did.

Rich


----------



## Jason Whiddon

I only record about 30 or so hours a week, and and at most we only get 3 weeks behind, maybe 4. So 2TB is plenty. Im only using 18% of my 1TB tivo OTA right now, and only 25% of my 1TB I have connected to my Dish DVR. I could probably eek by with a 1TB on the 34, but Id rather have 2TB.


----------



## Rich

elwaylite said:


> I only record about 30 or so hours a week, and and at most we only get 3 weeks behind, maybe 4. So 2TB is plenty. Im only using 18% of my 1TB tivo OTA right now, and only 25% of my 1TB I have connected to my Dish DVR. I could probably eek by with a 1TB on the 34, but Id rather have 2TB.


Different viewing habits. You're better off with the larger 2TB in any event. If the 34 is anything like the rest of the DVRs, you will see a slowing down of some functions like the Guide, Playlist, etc. when you reach about 30% Available on the meter.

With your viewing habits, a 2TB should be plenty. And you'll probably never come close to filling it up. Which is a good thing.

Rich


----------



## Jason Whiddon

"Rich" said:


> Different viewing habits. You're better off with the larger 2TB in any event. If the 34 is anything like the rest of the DVRs, you will see a slowing down of some functions like the Guide, Playlist, etc. when you reach about 30% Available on the meter.
> 
> With your viewing habits, a 2TB should be plenty. And you'll probably never come close to filling it up. Which is a good thing.
> 
> Rich


Agreed.


----------



## Jason Whiddon

Aight, got my install set for Fri AM, so I have the 2TB WD20EARX, TT BlacX dock, and an AM21N on the way.


----------



## inkahauts

Rich said:


> My third MX-1 just crapped out on me the other day. I'm only using the TT BlacX models now. If you can fit one in your setup, that's what I'd buy. I just checked Amazon and I don't see any My Book 2TB eSATAs.
> 
> Rich


I have 6 mx-1, and they are all working great and have been since day one, the first of which was about three years ago, I want to say.


----------



## P Smith

Big climatic difference.


----------



## mocarob

You guys are way too hi-tech.
I just connect a sata cable to the bare drive and enjoy..


----------



## Jason Whiddon

mocarob said:


> You guys are way too hi-tech.
> I just connect a sata cable to the bare drive and enjoy..


:lol:


----------



## bobsupra

I've been thru the posts and talked to Direct, but want to confirm with the real experts. I moved to Direct from Dish a few months ago. With Dish, I had an Ext Hard Drive that I could access without shutting down the internal HD. With Dish, I could move data from the internal to external HD. From what I can tell, with Direct, the internal HD is disabled (but spins) when the EHD is connected. If the EHD is connected and I want to see something on the Internal HD, I have to reach back, disconnect the EHD and reboot the DVR. Does that kind of sum it up?

Bob


----------



## inkahauts

"bobsupra" said:


> I've been thru the posts and talked to Direct, but want to confirm with the real experts. I moved to Direct from Dish a few months ago. With Dish, I had an Ext Hard Drive that I could access without shutting down the internal HD. With Dish, I could move data from the internal to external HD. From what I can tell, with Direct, the internal HD is disabled (but spins) when the EHD is connected. If the EHD is connected and I want to see something on the Internal HD, I have to reach back, disconnect the EHD and reboot the DVR. Does that kind of sum it up?
> 
> Bob


Yes.

From a technical standpoint, it's not even supported, but lots of people use it and it works very well as long as you are using compatible hard drives and enclosures.


----------



## Jason Whiddon

Yepp, even your series links are held on each drive


----------



## Rich

bobsupra said:


> I've been thru the posts and talked to Direct, but want to confirm with the real experts. I moved to Direct from Dish a few months ago. With Dish, I had an Ext Hard Drive that I could access without shutting down the internal HD. With Dish, I could move data from the internal to external HD. From what I can tell, with Direct, the internal HD is disabled (but spins) when the EHD is connected. If the EHD is connected and I want to see something on the Internal HD, I have to reach back, disconnect the EHD and reboot the DVR. Does that kind of sum it up?
> 
> Bob


Stick a 2TB drive externally on your HR and you'll soon forget about that pathetically small internal drive.

Rich


----------



## Jason Whiddon

Thats right.

Ive got my 2TB EARX now, and the TT BlacX arrives today. Just need the HR34 .

The TT Duet BlacX I use via USB with my Oppo is a great thing.


----------



## bobsupra

I hear you Rich and the others who chimed in...but here is the issue. Yea, the 500 megs HD in the DVR is very small, but there are recordings on there which have not been seen or need to be saved. The person who sits next to me on the coach is not going to be happy with me having to plug and unplug the EHD and reboot to watch something on the internal HD (we're about 50 shows behind). If I could move the data to the EHD, then we're golden. One of the few times I have found Dish to have a better product.


----------



## Jason Whiddon

I agree with that for sure. With Directv, you need to add it when you first get the darn DVR, or hurry and find a empty window, which is almost impossible for me.

That is why after the guy leaves Friday, ill set all this up before I set or record one thing.


----------



## Rich

elwaylite said:


> Thats right.
> 
> Ive got my 2TB EARX now, and the TT BlacX arrives today. Just need the HR34 .
> 
> *The TT Duet BlacX I use via USB with my Oppo is a great thing.*


Don't leave us hanging, tell us about it. I might break down and buy another OPPO (haven't had much luck with them in the past) if there's something it can do that my Sammy BD players can't. Please?

Rich


----------



## Rich

bobsupra said:


> I hear you Rich and the others who chimed in...but here is the issue. Yea, the 500 megs HD in the DVR is very small, but there are recordings on there which have not been seen or need to be saved. The person who sits next to me on the coach is not going to be happy with me having to plug and unplug the EHD and reboot to watch something on the internal HD (we're about 50 shows behind). If I could move the data to the EHD, then we're golden. One of the few times I have found Dish to have a better product.


You could just watch those shows and not record anything to the small internal. Then you'd end up with an empty internal and you'd probably be satisfied with the 2TB. I don't understand how Dish can let their subs do that and D* can't.

But. And this is a big But. I would like to see the eSATA function remain unsupported and if that condition is gonna be affected by allowing our HRs to do the same thing as Dish's DVRs do, then I'd be against it.

Rich


----------



## Jason Whiddon

Dual 1TB drives I had lying around. I turn my movies into ISO's and store them on the drives. The Oppo plays the movie off a HDD, and its no different that watching the actual blu-ray, very cool. 1TB can hold roughly 22 blu's, and the Oppo can recognize up to a 2TB drive. So, you could do two 2TB drives and have around 90 full quality blu's at all times. I love it, built like a tank, everything it does it does perfectly, reference PQ and what streaming it does have looks great. The Marvell chip does wonders and Netflix HD streaming looks awesome, as well as Vudu.


----------



## Rich

elwaylite said:


> I agree with that for sure. With Directv, you need to add it when you first get the darn DVR, or hurry and find a empty window, which is almost impossible for me.
> 
> That is why after the guy leaves Friday, ill set all this up before I set or record one thing.


Don't forget to record one program that you'd normally never watch on the 34's internal. That way, you'll be able to tell if the HR has recognized the external HDD.

But you're using a TT docking station, and that will tell you if the 34 has recognized the external HDD. The blue Power light will "sparkle pinkly" on one side as soon as the external is recognized. Another plus for the TT docking stations.

Another plus is: You don't have to worry about whether the HR has recognized the external after an NR. I've never had one fail to do that. None of the other external devices I've had did that as well as the TTs do.

Rich


----------



## Jason Whiddon

Rich said:


> Don't forget to record one program that you'd normally never watch on the 34's internal. That way, you'll be able to tell if the HR has recognized the external HDD.
> 
> But you're using a TT docking station, and that will tell you if the 34 has recognized the external HDD. The blue Power light will "sparkle pinkly" on one side as soon as the external is recognized. Another plus for the TT docking stations.
> 
> Another plus is: You don't have to worry about whether the HR has recognized the external after an NR. I've never had one fail to do that. None of the other external devices I've had did that as well as the TTs do.
> 
> Rich


Sounds great. I love the activity lights on the Duet when I transfer files or play them back. The My DVR Expander, and newer version the My Book AV have always worked flawlessly for me with Directv, I just dont get WD not having a 2TB version by now.


----------



## Rich

elwaylite said:


> Dual 1TB drives I had lying around. I turn my movies into ISO's and store them on the drives. The Oppo plays the movie off a HDD, and its no different that watching the actual blu-ray, very cool. 1TB can hold roughly 22 blu's, and the Oppo can recognize up to a 2TB drive. So, you could do two 2TB drives and have around 90 full quality blu's at all times. I love it, built like a tank, everything it does it does perfectly, reference PQ and what streaming it does have looks great. The Marvell chip does wonders and Netflix HD streaming looks awesome, as well as Vudu.


So you record the BDs from a computer? My Sammys have USB ports on them. Wonder if what you're doing is possible with the Sammys? Just curious, kinda doubt I'd ever do it. The upscaling on NetFlix streaming content looks the same on my Sammys as upscaling a standard DVD does, if not better. OPPO do as well?

Rich


----------



## Jason Whiddon

For the dual drives to work, you have to have USB connected to the Oppo. I have a second 16ft USB cable I connect in to it and run to my laptop. Throw a new blu into the drive, rip to iso directly on one of the two drives, the reconnect the Oppo, takes about 45 minutes. A few players can play ISO images, I know panny's can. Most blu's are 40-48 gigs.

The Oppo will use the marvell and output Nflix at 1080p, and it really does look good (I have a 6mbps DSL connection)


----------



## Rich

elwaylite said:


> Sounds great. I love the activity lights on the Duet when I transfer files or play them back. The My DVR Expander, and newer version the My Book AV have always worked flawlessly for me with Directv, I just dont get WD not having a 2TB version by now.


Give them a call and ask for Tech Support. That should give you some insight as to why they do some of the strange things they do.... :lol:

Rich


----------



## Jason Whiddon

No crap. I kinda wish Directv would have taken the TiVo route with external storage. Use both drives and combine the capacity.


----------



## Rich

elwaylite said:


> For the dual drives to work, you have to have USB connected to the Oppo. I have a second 16ft USB cable I connect in to it and run to my laptop. Throw a new blu into the drive, rip to iso directly on one of the two drives, the reconnect the Oppo, takes about 45 minutes. A few players can play ISO images, I know panny's can. Most blu's are 40-48 gigs.


Being almost terminally lazy, I can see that I'll never get around to doing that.... :lol:



> The Oppo will use the marvell and output Nflix at 1080p, and it really does look good (I have a 6mbps DSL connection)


I get 1080/60p on NetFlix streaming content on the Sammys, too. Really makes a difference when you compare the Sammys to other BD players in the same price range.

I have a 56Mbs Cablevision modem and when it works correctly, it streams very well. Never have rebuffering problems.

Rich


----------



## Rich

elwaylite said:


> No crap. I kinda wish Directv would have taken the TiVo route with external storage. Use both drives and combine the capacity.


I've never had a TiVo that had the eSATA function. Just SD TiVos that I used to put big HDDs in. You could add to the internal drive another internal drive using a special bracket. Then they fixed that and you could put much bigger HDDs in. I always have my programs backed up at least three times, so I never miss any programs. Would lose programming if the power went down during Prime Time, but that never seems to happen and I could keep a few of the HRs running on their UPS for a while.

Rich


----------



## Jason Whiddon

Yeah, its a little work, I just do it once a week for a few hours while we watch tv. Love browsing the drive via the Oppo looking at all those movies waiting on me to watch them


----------



## Jason Whiddon

Rich said:


> I've never had a TiVo that had the eSATA function. Just SD TiVos that I used to put big HDDs in. You could add to the internal drive another internal drive using a special bracket. Then they fixed that and you could put much bigger HDDs in. I always have my programs backed up at least three times, so I never miss any programs. Would lose programming if the power went down during Prime Time, but that never seems to happen and I could keep a few of the HRs running on their UPS for a while.
> 
> Rich


Internal drive has to be mty, but once installed the internal and external are combined as a total storage.


----------



## Rich

elwaylite said:


> Internal drive has to be mty, but once installed the internal and external are combined as a total storage.


Wonder how that would work with a 2TB drive externally and a 500GB internally? There is a 2TB limit on the externals.

Rich


----------



## Jason Whiddon

Rich said:


> Wonder how that would work with a 2TB drive externally and a 500GB internally? There is a 2TB limit on the externals.
> 
> Rich


Fine. You should have 2.5gb's of storage. Its weird though, it does not save the whole program on one or the other, it saves part of it internally, and part of it externally.


----------



## Rich

elwaylite said:


> Fine. You should have 2.5gb's of storage. Its weird though, it does not save the whole program on one or the other, it saves part of it internally, and part of it externally.


That is odd.

I was talking about the 2TB limit on the HRs.

Rich


----------



## Jason Whiddon

Rich said:


> That is odd.
> 
> I was talking about the 2TB limit on the HRs.
> 
> Rich


Ah, my mistake.

Ya know, Im wondering what the write limits are of a HDD. Look at the HR34. 5 streams total, and say you are recording 3 mpeg4 HD streams and 2 OTA HD streams. Seems like a lot of work for a HDD.


----------



## CCarncross

SATA transfer rate up to 1.2Gb/sec
SATA 2 is up to 2.4Gb/sec

OTA stream can be up to 19?Mb/sec, but probably much lower for most OTA stations

Even at 5x20Mb/sec, that is only 100Mb/sec...and SAT streams are much lower, so even with 5 streams going, SATA is way more than capable...unless I'm tired and my math is waaaaaay wrong tonight. :lol:


----------



## Jason Whiddon

Ah, cool. Makes sense.


----------



## P Smith

CCarncross said:


> *SATA transfer rate up to 1.2Gb/sec
> SATA 2 is up to 2.4Gb/sec*
> 
> OTA stream can be up to 19?Mb/sec, but probably much lower for most OTA stations
> 
> Even at 5x20Mb/sec, that is only 100Mb/sec...and SAT streams are much lower, so even with 5 streams going, SATA is way more than capable...unless I'm tired and my math is waaaaaay wrong tonight. :lol:


By spec SATA Rev1.0 - 1.5Gbps, SATA Rev2.0 - 3 Gbps, SATA Rev3.0 - 6Gbps. But it is not a speed of transferring data from a place like magnetic layer of HDD or cells in SSD.
Real speed is 1/10 of the SATA interface clock [crystal] speed. Still good enough for a few HD streams.
Some definitions from Wiki:


> Terminology
> 
> The name SATA II has become synonymous with the 3 Gbit/s standard. In order to provide the industry with consistent terminology, the SATA-IO has compiled a set of marketing guidelines for the third revision of the specification.
> 
> The SATA 6 Gbit/s specification should be called Serial ATA International Organization: Serial ATA Revision 3.0.
> The technology itself is to be referred to as SATA 6 Gb/s.
> A product using this standard should be called the SATA 6 Gb/s [product name].
> 
> Using the terms SATA III or SATA 3.0 to refer to a SATA 6 Gbit/s product is unclear and not preferred. SATA-IO has provided a guideline to foster consistent marketing terminology across the industry.[20]


----------



## Jason Whiddon

Thats what I was just reading. The drive I will be using is 64mb cache and 6gb/s, but that doesnt exactly carryover to what it can do real time. I guess at some point they will hit the limit of HDD's, but these 4 and 5 tuner DVR's are probably here to stay away, just like the 2 tuner ones of old. The Dish 722k has been around awhile, and it can do 2 sat and 2 OTA without issue.


----------



## harsh

bobsupra said:


> One of the few times I have found Dish to have a better product.


Hope that your DVR doesn't die and you find out one of the other reasons: programs are NOT transportable between DVRs in DIRECTVland. The DVR dies and all of its recordings become useless.


----------



## CCarncross

P Smith said:


> By spec SATA Rev1.0 - 1.5Gbps, SATA Rev2.0 - 3 Gbps, SATA Rev3.0 - 6Gbps. But it is not a speed of transferring data from a place like magnetic layer of HDD or cells in SSD.
> Real speed is 1/10 of the SATA interface clock [crystal] speed. Still good enough for a few HD streams.
> Some definitions from Wiki:


I used the usable transfer rate numbers for the numbers, not advertised "theroretical" numbers..Thats why I used 1.2, 2.4 speeds instead of advertised interface specs. Even if they only do 200Mb/sec, thats still 2x what 5 tuners can do was the whole point...


----------



## Jason Whiddon

I guess it's just still cool that it can write 5 hd video streams at once.


----------



## Rich

elwaylite said:


> I guess it's just still cool that it can write 5 hd video streams at once.


Still, an awful lot of eggs in one basket.

Rich


----------



## Drew2k

elwaylite said:


> I guess it's just still cool that it can write 5 hd video streams at once.


Six, technically, as you could also be downloading on-demand content. On top of that users could be playing back from multiple clients, so that's a lot of reading and writing going on at the same time!


----------



## P Smith

CCarncross said:


> I used the usable transfer rate numbers for the numbers, not advertised "theroretical" numbers..Thats why I used* 1.2, 2.4 speeds* instead of advertised interface specs. Even if they only do 200Mb/sec, thats still 2x what 5 tuners can do was the whole point...


Your numbers does not follow specs and have no real value; so, sorry - meaningless for publishing, perhaps just for personal use .
Also it's actual speed at real SATA interface edge. Anyone who did qualification test of new SATA device/controller and saw that 'eye' diagram on oscilloscope know it.


----------



## Jason Whiddon

Got my BlacX setup next to the Duet, just need an HR34 now LOL


----------



## CCarncross

So those docks are sitting right below the tv from the looks of the picture? If thats the case, don't the flashing lights distract you when watching tv? I would think the flashing red activity lights would be too distracting to be in the field of vision.


----------



## Jason Whiddon

They are on the corner of the stand below the tv screen. The lights really don't flash where I can see them, but I put the light out tinted pre cut stickers over them, so they are very dim now.


----------



## Rich

Drew2k said:


> Six, technically, as you could also be downloading on-demand content. On top of that users could be playing back from multiple clients, so that's a lot of reading and writing going on at the same time!


I was thinking of what would happen to all that content if either the HDD or the HR went bad.

Rich


----------



## Rich

CCarncross said:


> So those docks are sitting right below the tv from the looks of the picture? If thats the case, don't the flashing lights distract you when watching tv? * I would think the flashing red activity lights would be too distracting to be in the field of vision.*


I would too. Never had one near a TV, always in the back.

Rich


----------



## Jason Whiddon

The tv is wall mounted, they can't go behind. As stated, I have tinted stickers of different sizes, I uses them on electronic gear to dim them down. You can't see those dock lights unless you walk over and stare down at them.


----------



## bsnelson

OK, my last MX-1 has a noisy fan, and I'm contemplating its replacement. Looking over the posts since about #1500 or so, it seems like the two models currently in favor are:

Thermaltake ST0021U Max 5
Thermaltake ST0005U Docking station

I'm really not keen on that docking station, as it seems like it'd be noisy and I worry about mischievous feline activity in my home affecting it. The ST0021U looks good, except why does everything have to have blue LED light screaming out of every orifice?  Still, though, I'll take function over form, I can do something to minimize the light if needed. 

Are there any other current recommendations for enclosures? I'll be taking a working, currently in-use drive from the MX-1 (connected to a HR-22) and putting it in the new enclosure. Amazon currently has the ST0021U for $41 and a $20 MIR, bringing it to $21. 

Thanks for any and all advice,

Brad


----------



## inkahauts

Has anyone here found and been using a enclosure that supports raid mirroring? I am thinking that when I pick up a hr34 I will want a raid enclosure and throw two 2 tb drives in it running mirrored. Thoughts or suggestions?


----------



## Jason Whiddon

Western Digital used to have an awesome one, now the only thing they really sell as a RAID is a damn network drive, ethernet only.


----------



## inkahauts

"elwaylite" said:


> Western Digital used to have an awesome one, now the only thing they really sell as a RAID is a damn network drive, ethernet only.


Remember the model number? Maybe someone has some somewhere. 

I have a month or two to find one, so I figured I'd ask here before I went in search of one myself to see if anyone has actually used one on an hr.


----------



## Jason Whiddon

I think it was a my book raid.


----------



## P Smith

inkahauts said:


> Has anyone here found and been using a enclosure that supports raid mirroring? I am thinking that when I pick up a hr34 I will want a raid enclosure and throw two 2 tb drives in it running mirrored. Thoughts or suggestions?


RAID-1 is mirror, ie you will have same 2 TB limited usable space for the DVR.
RAID-0 or JBOD will not work for current Linux variant - DTV set own limit: 2TB.


----------



## hasan

I'm using the Thermaltake docking station with a 2 TB drive and there is virtually no noise whatsoever. We also have 3 cats, and with the drive/dock sitting behind the TV (on the same stand as the tv), the cats have shown absolutely no interest in it at all.



bsnelson said:


> OK, my last MX-1 has a noisy fan, and I'm contemplating its replacement. Looking over the posts since about #1500 or so, it seems like the two models currently in favor are:
> 
> Thermaltake ST0021U Max 5
> Thermaltake ST0005U Docking station
> 
> I'm really not keen on that docking station, as it seems like it'd be noisy and I worry about mischievous feline activity in my home affecting it. The ST0021U looks good, except why does everything have to have blue LED light screaming out of every orifice?  Still, though, I'll take function over form, I can do something to minimize the light if needed.
> 
> Are there any other current recommendations for enclosures? I'll be taking a working, currently in-use drive from the MX-1 (connected to a HR-22) and putting it in the new enclosure. Amazon currently has the ST0021U for $41 and a $20 MIR, bringing it to $21.
> 
> Thanks for any and all advice,
> 
> Brad


----------



## Jason Whiddon

Just an update, the blacx dock and green earx 2tb seem to be working ok after the hr34 install. I did have a point where I ran a system test and got an error about not being able to communicate with the ehd, but recording and all that still worked fine. A RBR fixed it and the next few tests passed everything except no phone line.


----------



## inkahauts

P Smith said:


> RAID-1 is mirror, ie you will have same 2 TB limited usable space for the DVR.
> RAID-0 or JBOD will not work for current Linux variant - DTV set own limit: 2TB.


Mirror is what I am after, to reduce the biggest point of failure issue on a hr34.


----------



## Drew2k

inkahauts said:


> Mirror is what I am after, to reduce the biggest point of failure issue on a hr34.


That's the way I would go too. The HR34 is essentially replacing 2.5 DVRs, so one external drive plus the "expense" of one additional external drive to mirror would provide some peace of mind should one of the externals fail. You wouldn't lose your series links and wouldn't lose your recordings...

Like inkahauts asked, if anyone knows of an inexpensive eSATA RAID-1 enclosure, please share!


----------



## Jason Whiddon

Well, that's the issue. Building a raid device for esata just isn't gonna be cheap. I know have three green drives, one for the 34 and two for my oppo. I purchased a hdd monitoring program, and will prob hook up to them often and at least try and find an issue before I run into it. 

If one goes, well it just goes.


----------



## inkahauts

As I recall, the ten box can work in raid mode, but I think it's limited to 1tb hard drive, so that won't fly. I might have to double check that though. And i think it was around 150, so that's a starting point in the search!


----------



## Rich

bsnelson said:


> OK, my last MX-1 has a noisy fan, and I'm contemplating its replacement. Looking over the posts since about #1500 or so, it seems like the two models currently in favor are:
> 
> Thermaltake ST0021U Max 5
> Thermaltake ST0005U Docking station
> 
> I'm really not keen on that docking station, as it seems like it'd be noisy and I worry about mischievous feline activity in my home affecting it. The ST0021U looks good, except why does everything have to have blue LED light screaming out of every orifice?  Still, though, I'll take function over form, I can do something to minimize the light if needed.
> 
> Are there any other current recommendations for enclosures? I'll be taking a working, currently in-use drive from the MX-1 (connected to a HR-22) and putting it in the new enclosure. Amazon currently has the ST0021U for $41 and a $20 MIR, bringing it to $21.
> 
> Thanks for any and all advice,
> 
> Brad


The TT docking stations are perfectly silent. Put a noisy HDD in one and you'll hear noise, naturally. There are no moving parts, no tools needed, they are truly "plug and play". No worries about dust accumulation. If the TT docking stations were selling for $100 and the enclosures (MX-1, Rosewill, TT ST0021U, etc.) were selling for $10, I'd still buy the docking station. I think they just work better. Here's a *link *to the one I use. I've got a bunch of them, no problems.

Rich


----------



## Rich

inkahauts said:


> Has anyone here found and been using a enclosure that supports raid mirroring? I am thinking that when I pick up a hr34 I will want a raid enclosure and throw two 2 tb drives in it running mirrored. Thoughts or suggestions?


That's one way to do it. Good idea. Even a 2TB HDD will get filled quickly with five inputs. I had two RAID boxes with two 1TB HDDs in each set to full so I could get the full 2TB capacity back when the 2TBs cost about $300. I used Cavalry RAID boxes, can't buy much crappier equipment than a Cavalry and they both worked. One lasted about four months and the other one a year. But they worked. And I'd think if the Cavs worked, just about any RAID box would work.

Your idea solves the problem of lost content if one of the HDDs fails, but the more likely failure will be the 34 itself. So far, I've not had a 2TB WD HDD fail. I considered the RAID solution concerning the 34s and I've decided there is no foolproof method of ensuring content won't be lost forever using them. I'm gonna stick with the HRs, I've haven't lost any content in years using them to back each other up.

Rich


----------



## HDJulie

I'm having a problem with the DVR that has an external drive & wondering if the issue might be with the DVR, the external drive, the eSata cable, or what. I have an HR20-700 with a WD10EURS drive in a Thermaltake open enclosure (the BlacX) connected using onme of the recommended eSata cables. We only sometimes watch recordings from this DVR & I noticed a couple of times that the recording would freeze & I'd have to fast-forward to make it start again. It did not do this on all recordings. Last night, though, we started watching a recording & every say 7 or 8 minutes, it would freeze & sometimes would start again, sometimes would say the DVR had been disconnected from the network but then would start again, & twice kicked me out of the recording. Once, the DVR was still connected & I did a Resume but it was not at the current spot - I had to fast forward about 20 minutes worth. The last time the DVR was not on the network so we blew off watching the end of the show & started something from another DVR. The DVR is connected to the network just fine this morning. We will probably try to finish watching the recording tonight but I'm curious if these symptoms point to anything in particular.


----------



## Jason Whiddon

So do I gather you are watching from another DVR over MRV?

That disconnection and freezing sounds like problems I had with MRV itself, in the early stages (beta). Are you watching with an improved MRV DECA install, or is it connected to the network another way?


----------



## HDJulie

It's the DECA method & the second show we watched was also from an MRV DVR. No other DVR has MRV issues. We've had supported MRV since it became available with all of these DVR's. And the IP addresses in the DVR's is hardcoded.


----------



## Jason Whiddon

It could be the drive then.

I have a pay program call HDD Sentinal, and I use to to periodically test drives, since I have 3 externals now. Pulling the SMART Data and doing a disc test may be something to look at first to see the health of the suspect drive.


----------



## Davenlr

If you are only having problems with shows being served from one specific DVR, I would suspect that server dvr is having issues with the hard drive, or the DECA (if external) box is overheating, or getting poor power from the server DVR. 

If the problem is with programs served from multiple DVR's, then you need to check the one you are watching on.

PM VeryOldSchool and he can tell you how you can pull up a menu to test the MRV between all your DirecTv boxes. It will print out a grid of numbers, and those will tell him if there are any issues with the MRV itself. Id tell you, but cannot remember what the numbers all mean.


----------



## HDJulie

It's just the one box. All 3 of the other DVR's work fine. It is an external DECA but the TV the box is connected to is almost never on so there is no heat from the TV & the DVR & DECA are on top of a bookcase & a little away from the wall so there should not be heat build up. I checked the DECA just now & it is barely warm. 

Another thing is we were watching a show from that DVR while a show was also being recorded to that DVR. I guess I'll have to disconnect the external drive & watch a few of the old shows on the internal drive & then hook up the external drive again & see if the glitches remain. Maybe it just needs to be rebooted.


----------



## Davenlr

If it is the hard drive, you should see the same glitches when watching live on that dvr, although maybe not for long timeout durations like using mrv, but glitches none the less.


----------



## HDJulie

Ok, will try that this afternoon then.


----------



## Jason Whiddon

Going back to HDD's handling 5 HD streams plus other loads, I have a technical observation that Im wondering wrong or right 

Im using a pc of software I bought to monitor the health of my drives. Just doing a surface test of my internal laptop drive, its performance is 70 "MB/s" with no load.

Just using Dish EHD numbers, since it shows file sizes, here would be 5 tuners/1 hour programs recording, roughly:

1 OTA - 6500MB file / 2MB/s
1 OTA - 6500MB file / 2MB/s
1 Sat - 3500MB File / 1MB/s
1 Sat - 3500MB File / 1MB/s
1 Sat - 3500MB File / 1MB/s

If Im looking at this right, the load is roughly less than 10MB/s, while the drive can do 70MB/s. Seems like it's pretty easy for a drive to do 5 HD streams, unless Im missing something.


----------



## Jason Whiddon

For good orders sake, here is the laptop drive Im currently testing

Western Digital Scorpio Blue WD1600BEVT 160GB 5400 RPM 8MB Cache 2.5" SATA 3.0Gb/s

Ive noticed, just watching the dock, the little orange activity light doesnt not blink a lot, even when recording 5 things. The only time Ive seen it blink fast, is when you are deleting a program.


----------



## inkahauts

"HDJulie" said:


> I'm having a problem with the DVR that has an external drive & wondering if the issue might be with the DVR, the external drive, the eSata cable, or what. I have an HR20-700 with a WD10EURS drive in a Thermaltake open enclosure (the BlacX) connected using onme of the recommended eSata cables. We only sometimes watch recordings from this DVR & I noticed a couple of times that the recording would freeze & I'd have to fast-forward to make it start again. It did not do this on all recordings. Last night, though, we started watching a recording & every say 7 or 8 minutes, it would freeze & sometimes would start again, sometimes would say the DVR had been disconnected from the network but then would start again, & twice kicked me out of the recording. Once, the DVR was still connected & I did a Resume but it was not at the current spot - I had to fast forward about 20 minutes worth. The last time the DVR was not on the network so we blew off watching the end of the show & started something from another DVR. The DVR is connected to the network just fine this morning. We will probably try to finish watching the recording tonight but I'm curious if these symptoms point to anything in particular.


The shows your having trouble with, they weren't recorded on an ota channel by chance where they? And do they play backfire from the originating dvr?


----------



## HDJulie

No, not recorded OTA. I'm about to mess with the TV & DVR now to see how it does.


----------



## HDJulie

Just a quick test & the recording had no problems playing from the recording DVR. I wonder if the DECA unit might be a problem. I'll swap it out with the one on the back of the HR22 & see what happens.


----------



## P Smith

elwaylite said:


> It could be the drive then.
> 
> I have a pay program call HDD Sentinal, and I use to to periodically test drives, since I have 3 externals now. Pulling the SMART Data and doing a disc test may be something to look at first to see the health of the suspect drive.


Is that program handle HDD's testing better the free MHDD and Victoria ?


----------



## Jason Whiddon

Dunno.


----------



## CCarncross

elwaylite said:


> For good orders sake, here is the laptop drive Im currently testing
> 
> Western Digital Scorpio Blue WD1600BEVT 160GB 5400 RPM 8MB Cache 2.5" SATA 3.0Gb/s
> 
> Ive noticed, just watching the dock, the little orange activity light doesnt not blink a lot, even when recording 5 things. The only time Ive seen it blink fast, is when you are deleting a program.


I didnt think you could use a drive smaller than 300GB with any of the dvrs. Maybe for most of us it just made no sense to be adding an external that was smaller than the smallest original drive ever available in one of the HR2x series dvrs.


----------



## Jason Whiddon

That drive is the one that is in my laptop, but I used it for the MB/s test data is what I meant. Seems like if that little drive has that throughput, one of these green drives should have enough juice for 5 hd streams.


----------



## Rich

CCarncross said:


> I didnt think you could use a drive smaller than 300GB with any of the dvrs. Maybe for most of us it just made no sense to be adding an external that was smaller than the smallest original drive ever available in one of the HR2x series dvrs.


I think I remember someone using a smaller HDD successfully, for what practical reason I can't imagine. Probably just to see if it would work.

Could have been *P Smith*.

Rich


----------



## Rich

HDJulie said:


> Just a quick test & the recording had no problems playing from the recording DVR. I wonder if the DECA unit might be a problem. I'll swap it out with the one on the back of the HR22 & see what happens.


Since the DECAs came out, I've only had a problem with one. That one caused jittering on the picture. Thought it was the HDD, but I put a different HDD in one of my docking stations and the same thing happened. Had a service call, the DECAs on that HR were both changed and no more jitters.

I will say that since I got the HD GUI, I have seen more freezups than I did before I downloaded it. Never mentioned it, figured they knew about it and would fix it. I define a freezeup as a frozen picture that can be fixed by using the remote. A lockup, I think of as having to reboot the HR.

Rich


----------



## Rich

HDJulie said:


> I'm having a problem with the DVR that has an external drive & wondering if the issue might be with the DVR, the external drive, the eSata cable, or what. I have an HR20-700 with a WD10EURS drive in a Thermaltake open enclosure (the BlacX) connected using onme of the recommended eSata cables. We only sometimes watch recordings from this DVR & I noticed a couple of times that the recording would freeze & I'd have to fast-forward to make it start again. It did not do this on all recordings. Last night, though, we started watching a recording & every say 7 or 8 minutes, it would freeze & sometimes would start again, sometimes would say the DVR had been disconnected from the network but then would start again, & twice kicked me out of the recording. Once, the DVR was still connected & I did a Resume but it was not at the current spot - I had to fast forward about 20 minutes worth. The last time the DVR was not on the network so we blew off watching the end of the show & started something from another DVR. The DVR is connected to the network just fine this morning. We will probably try to finish watching the recording tonight but I'm curious if these symptoms point to anything in particular.


Did you go back and see if the freezeup remained on the recording? That would mean that the DVR that recorded it recorded the freezeup. If it disappeared when you went back, I'd be looking at the HR or the HDD on that HR. Do you have another HDD you can temporarily put in the docking station, then watch a few shows on MRV and see if you still get the freezeups? That should give you an idea about the original HDD.

Have you tried watching shows using the internal drive?

Rich


----------



## greenwave

Hello forum friends. What started out as an effort at an informational scan of this thread has evolved into a 2.5 hour productivity time-suck that has spawned an irrational fear that my perfectly functioning external HDD is doomed to die any day now and a sudden urgency to spend hundreds of dollars I really don't have on a new HDD and a docking station to ensure TV-viewing security for the next generation in my household. (Oh yes, also a lingering paranoia that I will invite a blistering rebuke from P Smith for being lazy. Merry Xmas, P!) Sigh.

Anyway, my HR20-700 has been with me and functioning fine (if perpetually slow) for many years now, for as long as that device has been available. When D* activated eSata I added an "in the box" 1TB HDD, Calvalry I believe, and that has been cruising along at constant power now for about 3 years, maybe more. Only been turned off and/or rebooted maybe 5x in 3 years. We keep it at varying levels of content, but typically between 55-65% free. It has always made some noise, but lately it's been very noisy, and last week we had a brief stuttering playback problem (cured, at least for now it seems, by an overnight powering down). 

So after reading this thread I am thinking to have gotten 3+ years out of the Calvalry is not too bad, I really shouldn't expect much more, and I should probably start planning for the future. I have an HR23-700 that I have not expanded capacity on (yes I need to update my footer info), so I am thinking I will get a new HDD for the HR23 and start slowly shifting series links over to it as we wind down the Calvalry content. So with that background, my questions are: 

1. Should I be comfortable with/would you recommend my using a WD20EARS 2TB with the Thermaltake BlacX docking station for the HR23-700?

2. How much noise should I expect from this setup as opposed to an enclosed set up? Most seem to suggest the WD EARS will be quieter than the Calvalry I'm using now, but my present media cabinet is open air so there is no cabinet door/wall buffers between my equipment and my viewing area.

3. How "tall" will the docked HDD stand? I've seen the pictures some (i.e., Elwaylite) have posted, and the profile of the docked HDD doesn't look to be all that much higher than the Calvarly in its stand. My TV is wall mounted and I'd prefer to tuck that bad boy back behind my blu-ray player where it wouldn't be seen, but would like to know it will fit in the shelf space before I shell out the money for it.

4. Should I just wait for the HR34 to become available to the masses and, if so, what are the chances D* would credit a swap of my HR20 and HR23 against its $300 purchase price?

As always, thanks in advance. Although they don't know it, my family is much appreciative of all the help we've gotten through the years on this here outstanding forum. DB


----------



## Jason Whiddon

1) Id use the WD20EARX 2TB, what I have, because it is the newer version

2) Mines very quiet

3) Not sure inch wise, but not much taller than if you just stood the HDD on its end


----------



## HDJulie

Rich said:


> Did you go back and see if the freezeup remained on the recording? That would mean that the DVR that recorded it recorded the freezeup. If it disappeared when you went back, I'd be looking at the HR or the HDD on that HR. Do you have another HDD you can temporarily put in the docking station, then watch a few shows on MRV and see if you still get the freezeups? That should give you an idea about the original HDD.
> 
> Have you tried watching shows using the internal drive?
> 
> Rich


Yes, watched the recording on the originating DVR & the issues are in the recording. I also had problems watching live shows on that TV. I think it is a signal issue & asked some questions in another thread about it.


----------



## P Smith

HDJulie said:


> Yes, watched the recording on the originating DVR & the issues are in the recording. I also had problems watching live shows on that TV. I think it is a signal issue & asked some questions in another thread about it.


While waiting responses in other thread, run Victoria on your PC connecting to the EHD/drive; get SMART before - save it; run Scan with Remap=ON, save result; run SMART again and post all three reports here. We will review them ...


----------



## phoneman06

Do the Thermaltake or Antec enclosures power back on automatically after a power failure?


----------



## Lord Vader

I know my Antec ones do.


----------



## weattv

Our HR20-100 with a Seagate FAP 1T (almost 3 1/2 years old, but cooled with a fan) started freezing up badly recently. We got a Thermaltake BlacX docking station & finally got the FAP drive into it. It still freezes or stutters, though a little less than before.

After each boot-up -- and each time a new file is begun -- it plays live/buffer fine for a minute or so, and then begins audio or video stuttering. Same with recordings made shortly before it went bad this month. But with older recordings there's very little video stuttering -- mainly audio. It also gets worse the longer the file plays.

The drive has always been maxed out at 0% remaining with over 99% at Keep Until I Delete. I've taken it down to 5% remaining tonight. The new GUI update occurred while the disc was set aside, so it's also dealing with that, plus downloading 2 weeks of programming, etc. (And the e-SATA cable that came with the TT would not let any file play.)

The errors don't occur at the same spots in either live or recorded shows. Does this mean it's not the actual drive but maybe another part of the FAP parts that are bad?

File System Verification = Fail - 0x70
SMART Short Test = Fail - 0x77

The power light on the TT is flashing blue & red.

Not running longer tests now, because the live buffer is now perfect...

Don't some sort of "repair" the drive? SpeedFan? Spinrite? HDD Sentinel?

In another thread, someone said: "Reboot and hold down the front panel record and down arrow buttons [both] until you see the record light come on. This should bring up a disk scan that is more extensive than what you found in the diagnostic menu."

A user replied: "I reran diagnostics after using the Menu to reset. Both Guided Tests and the Advanced Diagnostics Hard Drive Utilties File System Verification tests now say passed [after failing on previous runs of same tests]. I know I didn't select to repair anything through my previous steps."

Safe to hold down those front panel buttons, or to use the menu's Reset, with an external drive?

Thanks for any suggestions.


----------



## CCarncross

phoneman06 said:


> Do the Thermaltake or Antec enclosures power back on automatically after a power failure?


Yes, they have mechanical power switches so if they were on when the power went out, they are on when the power is restored.


----------



## Rich

greenwave said:


> Hello forum friends. What started out as an effort at an informational scan of this thread has evolved into a 2.5 hour productivity time-suck that has spawned an irrational fear that my perfectly functioning external HDD is doomed to die any day now and a sudden urgency to spend hundreds of dollars I really don't have on a new HDD and a docking station to ensure TV-viewing security for the next generation in my household. (Oh yes, also a lingering paranoia that I will invite a blistering rebuke from P Smith for being lazy. Merry Xmas, P!) Sigh.


That's probably not "paranoia", more like "lust". Lust for a 2TB drive in a spiffy new TT docking station. Perfectly normal to feel that way and judging from the rest of your post you're about due for a new HDD.



> Anyway, my HR20-700 has been with me and functioning fine (if perpetually slow) for many years now, for as long as that device has been available.


This is something I don't/can't understand. I've never had a "slow" 20-700 unless I caused that slowness by filling up the HDD to over 70% of it's capacity. But in normal condition, whether the 2TB HDD is external or internal, the 700s are pretty close to the 24s as far as speed goes and with the new GUI, they've gotten even faster



> When D* activated eSata I added an "in the box" 1TB HDD, Calvalry I believe, and that has been cruising along at constant power now for about 3 years, maybe more. Only been turned off and/or rebooted maybe 5x in 3 years. We keep it at varying levels of content, but typically between 55-65% free. It has always made some noise, but lately it's been very noisy, and last week we had a brief stuttering playback problem (cured, at least for now it seems, by an overnight powering down).


You're lucky. The out-of-the box Cav eSATAs are the worst out-of-the box eSATAs I've ever had. I think I've had over ten of them. Kept buying them and bringing them right back because they were so noisy. Finally gave up and switched to the virtually silent FAPs. The Cavs always worked tho. Gotta give them credit for that.



> So after reading this thread I am thinking to have gotten 3+ years out of the Calvalry is not too bad, I really shouldn't expect much more, and I should probably start planning for the future. I have an HR23-700 that I have not expanded capacity on (yes I need to update my footer info), so I am thinking I will get a new HDD for the HR23 and start slowly shifting series links over to it as we wind down the Calvalry content. So with that background, my questions are:
> 
> 1. Should I be comfortable with/would you recommend my using a WD20EARS 2TB with the Thermaltake BlacX docking station for the HR23-700?


Absolutely. But I'd wait a bit until the prices for the 2TBs drops. They will drop, I hope. The last two or three HDDs I bought were the EARS 2TBs and I only paid ~$70 for each of them.



> 2. How much noise should I expect from this setup as opposed to an enclosed set up? Most seem to suggest the WD EARS will be quieter than the Calvalry I'm using now, but my present media cabinet is open air so there is no cabinet door/wall buffers between my equipment and my viewing area.


As long as you put a quiet HDD in the TT docking station, you will experience no noise. The TTs themselves are virtually silent.



> 3. How "tall" will the docked HDD stand? I've seen the pictures some (i.e., Elwaylite) have posted, and the profile of the docked HDD doesn't look to be all that much higher than the Calvarly in its stand. My TV is wall mounted and I'd prefer to tuck that bad boy back behind my blu-ray player where it wouldn't be seen, but would like to know it will fit in the shelf space before I shell out the money for it.


Just measured one. 7" from the bottom of the docking station to the top of the HDD.



> 4. Should I just wait for the HR34 to become available to the masses and, if so, what are the chances D* would credit a swap of my HR20 and HR23 against its $300 purchase price?


Dunno. I do think the 34 will work a lot better than the 23-700 (not D*'s finest DVR), might be worth waiting for it. I'd certainly wait until the price of the HDDs drops. D* might do a credit for you. Keep calling until you get a CSR who will do it.

Rich


----------



## Rich

phoneman06 said:


> Do the Thermaltake or Antec enclosures power back on automatically after a power failure?


The TTs do come back on correctly and are ready to use if you suffer a power outage or an NR.

All the MX-1s I've had came back correctly when they were new, but as they aged I had to manually reset the HR and the MX-1 so that the HR would recognize the MX-1. So far, the TTs have never failed to be recognized by their HR after an NR. I also reboot a lot using the Menu Restart method and I've had a lot of problems with the older MX-1s. Got to the point where I just rebooted them manually. The last one I had wouldn't be recognized by its HR no matter what I did. Might have been because of the amount of dust inside the MX-1, haven't tried cleaning it out yet.

Rich


----------



## Jason Whiddon

As another precaution i always keep my drives and dvrs on a ups. Current one will keep them all going about two hours.


----------



## P Smith

weattv said:


> Our HR20-100 with a Seagate FAP 1T (almost 3 1/2 years old, but cooled with a fan) started freezing up badly recently. We got a Thermaltake BlacX docking station & finally got the FAP drive into it. It still freezes or stutters, though a little less than before.
> 
> After each boot-up -- and each time a new file is begun -- it plays live/buffer fine for a minute or so, and then begins audio or video stuttering. Same with recordings made shortly before it went bad this month. But with older recordings there's very little video stuttering -- mainly audio. It also gets worse the longer the file plays.
> 
> The drive has always been maxed out at 0% remaining with over 99% at Keep Until I Delete. I've taken it down to 5% remaining tonight. The new GUI update occurred while the disc was set aside, so it's also dealing with that, plus downloading 2 weeks of programming, etc. (And the e-SATA cable that came with the TT would not let any file play.)
> 
> The errors don't occur at the same spots in either live or recorded shows. Does this mean it's not the actual drive but maybe another part of the FAP parts that are bad?
> 
> File System Verification = Fail - 0x70
> SMART Short Test = Fail - 0x77
> 
> The power light on the TT is flashing blue & red.
> 
> Not running longer tests now, because the live buffer is now perfect...
> 
> Don't some sort of "repair" the drive? *SpeedFan? Spinrite? HDD Sentinel?*
> 
> In another thread, someone said: "Reboot and hold down the front panel record and down arrow buttons [both] until you see the record light come on. This should bring up a disk scan that is more extensive than what you found in the diagnostic menu."
> 
> A user replied: "I reran diagnostics after using the Menu to reset. Both Guided Tests and the Advanced Diagnostics Hard Drive Utilties File System Verification tests now say passed [after failing on previous runs of same tests]. I know I didn't select to repair anything through my previous steps."
> 
> Safe to hold down those front panel buttons, or to use the menu's Reset, with an external drive?
> 
> Thanks for any suggestions.


I gave same recommendation many times here - use MHDD (boot from CD) or Victoria under Windows. Post three reports here after sequential use:
1) SMART data
2) Scan with Remap=ON
3) SMART again

Then we will have some facts do discuss ...


----------



## bpratt

Rich said:


> The TTs do come back on correctly and are ready to use if you suffer a power outage or an NR.
> 
> All the MX-1s I've had came back correctly when they were new, but as they aged I had to manually reset the HR and the MX-1 so that the HR would recognize the MX-1. So far, the TTs have never failed to be recognized by their HR after an NR. I also reboot a lot using the Menu Restart method and I've had a lot of problems with the older MX-1s. Got to the point where I just rebooted them manually. The last one I had wouldn't be recognized by its HR no matter what I did. Might have been because of the amount of dust inside the MX-1, haven't tried cleaning it out yet.
> 
> Rich


How old are your MX-1s? I have 2 that are 4 years old connected to 4 year old HR21-700s that have never had a problem after a power failure or forced firmware download.


----------



## Lord Vader

Ditto. One of my MX-1s is connected to an HR20-700 for over 4 years now.


----------



## Rich

bpratt said:


> How old are your MX-1s? I have 2 that are 4 years old connected to 4 year old HR21-700s that have never had a problem after a power failure or forced firmware download.


Dunno exactly how old they are or how many I've purchased. I do remember taking a sledge hammer to one after having so many problems with it a couple years ago. I've slowly replaced them with TT docking stations as soon as I had problems with them.

I think I started buying them after I gave up on the out-of-the-box eSATAs. Probably back in 2007 or early 2008.

We have gas forced air for heating and use the same duct-work for central A/C. And we do have the ducts cleaned every year.

Just out of curiosity, do you have hardwood floors or carpets?

Rich


----------



## Rich

Lord Vader said:


> Ditto. One of my MX-1s is connected to an HR20-700 for over 4 years now.


Hardwood floors or rugs? Must be a reason for this.

Rich


----------



## Lord Vader

Carpeting throughout.


----------



## bpratt

Rich said:


> Dunno exactly how old they are or how many I've purchased. I do remember taking a sledge hammer to one after having so many problems with it a couple years ago. I've slowly replaced them with TT docking stations as soon as I had problems with them.
> 
> I think I started buying them after I gave up on the out-of-the-box eSATAs. Probably back in 2007 or early 2008.
> 
> We have gas forced air for heating and use the same duct-work for central A/C. And we do have the ducts cleaned every year.
> 
> Just out of curiosity, do you have hardwood floors or carpets?
> 
> Rich


I also have gas forced air for heating and use the same duct-work for central A/C. I've lived in this house for 15 years and had the ducts cleaned once. I have mostly carpets, but the halls are hardwood.

I have also used the MX-1 and now use a TT docking station for backing up my PC. I noticed that the disk in the MX-1 enclosure runs a lot cooler than the disk in the TT docking station. Are you concerned with heat issues using a TT docking station on an HRx?


----------



## Rich

Lord Vader said:


> Carpeting throughout.


Well, so much for that thought. Do you clean out the MX-1s frequently? Once I install an external device, I don't move them, so getting banged around isn't the answer.

Rich


----------



## Lord Vader

Nope. Haven't touched mine since I moved upstairs in August, when everything was disconnected then reconnected.


----------



## Rich

bpratt said:


> I also have gas forced air for heating and use the same duct-work for central A/C. I've lived in this house for 15 years and had the ducts cleaned once. I have mostly carpets, but the halls are hardwood.


Reason I asked was I thought the carpets might be a bit dustier than hardwood floors. You ought to have those ducts cleaned. The air feels and tastes fresher and you'll save money on HVAC costs. First time we had it done I couldn't believe how much dust came out. Sears (which is odd, I don't usually patronize Sears) does a very good job on the ducts and is also very good at carpet cleaning.



> I have also used the MX-1 and now use a TT docking station for backing up my PC. I noticed that the disk in the MX-1 enclosure runs a lot cooler than the disk in the TT docking station. Are you concerned with heat issues using a TT docking station on an HRx?


No, I don't really see or expect any heat issues and haven't experienced any problems at all (except for the on/off switches breaking) with them. I put my hands on top of the HDDs in the TTs quite a bit and they are just warm to the touch.

The HDDs in the MX-1s run cooler for one reason. Ever see the size of the fan? Relative to the size of the enclosure, it's huge.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Lord Vader said:


> Nope. Haven't touched mine since I moved upstairs in August, when everything was disconnected then reconnected.


Huh.

Rich


----------



## bpratt

All of my DVRs are in a closet in lower level of my house. There are a couple of fans that circulate air in at the bottom of the closet out a vent at the top. I looked inside one of the MX-1s last summer to check for dust level, but there was very little inside, so I didn't look at the other one. The air that blows into the closet is from my office which is carpeted.


----------



## nuspieds

Lord Vader said:


> Ditto. One of my MX-1s is connected to an HR20-700 for over 4 years now.


Me, too.

In all the years that I've had the MX-1s, I've never had any problems with power failures or receiver restarts. The only issue I've ever had was the fan making a lot of noise all of a sudden, so I just ended up getting a new MX-1 to replace it. Other than that, no issues whatsoever.


----------



## Rich

nuspieds said:


> Me, too.
> 
> In all the years that I've had the MX-1s, I've never had any problems with power failures or receiver restarts. The only issue I've ever had was the fan making a lot of noise all of a sudden, so I just ended up getting a new MX-1 to replace it. Other than that, no issues whatsoever.


Never had one that was quiet. At least it seems that way. A lot of my blue lights went out, too. The latest (and last) one to go had a light that didn't work. Nice light, tho. Never annoying.

Rich


----------



## inkahauts

"Rich" said:


> Never had one that was quiet. At least it seems that way. A lot of my blue lights went out, too. The latest (and last) one to go had a light that didn't work. Nice light, tho. Never annoying.
> 
> Rich


Mine are all quite. Heck the hrs make more noise than they do. And I unplug my lights I don't need them on.


----------



## Jason Whiddon

Is there any need to do a long or quick format of a brand new drive before you hook it up to the directv DVR and it does it's thing?


----------



## hasan

elwaylite said:


> Is there any need to do a long or quick format of a brand new drive before you hook it up to the directv DVR and it does it's thing?


No...it will be prepared by the on-board O/S just fine.


----------



## Jason Whiddon

"hasan" said:


> No...it will be prepared by the on-board O/S just fine.


Cool, thanks.


----------



## primetime

Related to the previous two posts:

I just had whole home DVR installed and one of my old HR20's wouldn't work so the install tech gave me a new HR24 to replace it. I had a 1TB FAP hooked up to the HR20, I understand I lose the ability to access the recordings on the FAP with the new DVR but I would still like to hook it up and begin using it again. I can't seem to get the DVR to recognize it. I've never had a problem with any of the other DVR's in the house using the external drive but that has always been with new out of the box drives being paired to the DVR. 

Is there something different I have to do to get the external drive to "forget" the old DVR and pair with the new one?


----------



## Rich

primetime said:


> Related to the previous two posts:
> 
> I just had whole home DVR installed and one of my old HR20's wouldn't work so the install tech gave me a new HR24 to replace it. I had a 1TB FAP hooked up to the HR20, I understand I lose the ability to access the recordings on the FAP with the new DVR but I would still like to hook it up and begin using it again. I can't seem to get the DVR to recognize it. I've never had a problem with any of the other DVR's in the house using the external drive but that has always been with new out of the box drives being paired to the DVR.
> 
> Is there something different I have to do to get the external drive to "forget" the old DVR and pair with the new one?


When the FAPs came out, there were problems with them working with some HRs. Judging from your post you had a 20-100. The FAPs did work with the two HR20s. I had problems with Seagate's two out-of-the-box eSATAs, the FAP and the Xtreme, when using them with the 21 series of HRs. They might not work with 24s or some 24s. You can always dig out the HDD from inside the FAP (and I do mean dig) and put it in one of *these*. The docking stations work with every HR.

Rich


----------



## inkahauts

primetime said:


> Related to the previous two posts:
> 
> I just had whole home DVR installed and one of my old HR20's wouldn't work so the install tech gave me a new HR24 to replace it. I had a 1TB FAP hooked up to the HR20, I understand I lose the ability to access the recordings on the FAP with the new DVR but I would still like to hook it up and begin using it again. I can't seem to get the DVR to recognize it. I've never had a problem with any of the other DVR's in the house using the external drive but that has always been with new out of the box drives being paired to the DVR.
> 
> Is there something different I have to do to get the external drive to "forget" the old DVR and pair with the new one?


rip your drive out of that enclosure, and put it in a antec mx-1 or one of the tt docking stations everyone mentions, then it will probably work fine. I did that with mine ages ago, because those FAP enclosures where really poor, at least the ones I had years ago. I still have one of my 750gig drives working just fine in a antec enclosure. Its over 5 years old now.


----------



## primetime

I have a another FAP hooked to an HR20 in the basement that I ripped the drive out of after it kept locking up and used the antec mx-1 and it has been working fine for the last year or two since I did it. Rip out was the right term, that drive did not come out easy from FAP enclosure. 

I have yet another HR20 in the bedroom so maybe I'll try the FAP up there before ripping the drive out since it was working just fine with the old living room HR20. Nice thing about the whole home DVR, it doesn't really matter which receiver I hook that drive on.

The tech was amazed I still had 3 HR20's (2 100's and a 700) up and running. One of them was installed pretty much as soon as they came out and has never had an issue.


----------



## El Gabito

Anyone used one of these (or something similar)?

http://www.amazon.com/Cavalry-eSATA-External-Enclosure-EN-CADA2B-ZB01/dp/B004KKXLLG

edit:
or this? If reading correctly it can essentially do RAID 1...

http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/Product.aspx?C=1346&ID=1895

double edit:
Looks like I was misreading on the blacx - it won't simulate RAID 1.


----------



## P Smith

El Gabito said:


> ...
> Looks like I was misreading on the blacx - it won't *simulate* RAID 1.


Is it misplaced word or you disguised the method ?


----------



## Rich

El Gabito said:


> Anyone used one of these (or something similar)?
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Cavalry-eSATA-External-Enclosure-EN-CADA2B-ZB01/dp/B004KKXLLG


I tried two Cav RAID boxes a few years ago. One lasted a year and the other one lasted about four month.

At least this one is cheap, I think I paid well over $400 each for mine with two 1TB HDDs in them.

Personally, the only recommendation I'd give about any Cav product is, "Don't buy it."

Rich


----------



## El Gabito

P Smith said:


> Is it misplaced word or you disguised the method ?


Well I read "port replicator" as "port duplicator" i.e. it would duplicate the data on both drives. Clearly not the case.



Rich said:


> I tried two Cav RAID boxes a few years ago. One lasted a year and the other one lasted about four month.
> 
> At least this one is cheap, I think I paid well over $400 each for mine with two 1TB HDDs in them.
> 
> Personally, the only recommendation I'd give about any Cav product is, "Don't buy it."
> 
> Rich


Well that sucks.


----------



## El Gabito

elwaylite said:


> Western Digital used to have an awesome one, now the only thing they really sell as a RAID is a damn network drive, ethernet only.





inkahauts said:


> Remember the model number? Maybe someone has some somewhere.
> 
> I have a month or two to find one, so I figured I'd ask here before I went in search of one myself to see if anyone has actually used one on an hr.


This looks like something currently available. Anybody tried it?

http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digital-My-Book-Studio/dp/B002BH3ZCU/


----------



## P Smith

But the price ... You pay for 2 of 3 functions what will not need: USB and FireWire.


----------



## primetime

Rich said:


> When the FAPs came out, there were problems with them working with some HRs. Judging from your post you had a 20-100. The FAPs did work with the two HR20s. I had problems with Seagate's two out-of-the-box eSATAs, the FAP and the Xtreme, when using them with the 21 series of HRs. They might not work with 24s or some 24s. You can always dig out the HDD from inside the FAP (and I do mean dig) and put it in one of *these*. The docking stations work with every HR.
> 
> Rich


Thanks for the tip on the FAP not working well with the HR24. When I hooked it up to the other HR20 in the BR is spun right up just fine.


----------



## Rich

primetime said:


> Thanks for the tip on the FAP not working well with the HR24. When I hooked it up to the other HR20 in the BR is spun right up just fine.


Seagate drives (even tho the HRs come with them stock) have always been iffy with other models than the 20s. Out of the box eSATAs by Seagate, I mean.

Rich


----------



## Rich

El Gabito said:


> This looks like something currently available. Anybody tried it?
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digital-My-Book-Studio/dp/B002BH3ZCU/


Never tried one, but I'd trust a WD "anything" more than a Cav "anything". Don't see many posts saying, "mine's been working for years" or words to that effect after I bash Cavalry products. Most of the time, if I bash something I've had problems with, I get a lot of return posts defending the product bashed, but I don't see that with the Cavs.

Rich


----------



## Rich

P Smith said:


> But the price ... You pay for 2 of 3 functions what will not need: USB and FireWire.


Can you buy them without those options? Don't think many folks make just a SATA box.

Rich


----------



## P Smith

NOt sure, but some mfgs has these variants, at least USB only, USB+eSATA, and all three(four).


----------



## mocarob

Rich said:


> Never tried one, but I'd trust a WD "anything" more than a Cav "anything". Don't see many posts saying, "mine's been working for years" or words to that effect after I bash Cavalry products. Most of the time, if I bash something I've had problems with, I get a lot of return posts defending the product bashed, but I don't see that with the Cavs.
> Rich


I have once or twice but gave up. Nothings gonna change your mind.
My 1gb cavalry w/wd drive lasted 3 yrs.
All my WD drives last 3yrs then die..


----------



## Rich

mocarob said:


> I have once or twice but gave up. Nothings gonna change your mind.


I did try a lot of them and they all did work, but were so noisy that I had to take them back. When I did get relatively quiet units, they got noisier. But, to give them credit, they all did work.



> My 1gb cavalry w/wd drive lasted 3 yrs.
> All my WD drives last 3yrs then die..


Hmm. That's a cheery thought. I bought my WDs in clusters. Not a pleasant thing if the whole cluster fails about the same time.

The odd thing about the WDs is, I had the most trouble with WD and Sammy HDDs when I was using TiVos.

Rich


----------



## Jason Whiddon

If I power down the HR34, then connect the dock to my laptop to run some smart tests with an external program, would that effect my recordings in anyway?

I'd just like to power it all down and do some *non invasive* drive health tests monthly.


----------



## bpratt

mocarob said:


> I have once or twice but gave up. Nothings gonna change your mind.
> My 1gb cavalry w/wd drive lasted 3 yrs.
> All my WD drives last 3yrs then die..


My experience with WD drives has been very good. My two HR21-700s have 750G WD drives. Both are slightly over 4 years old and have never indicated any failure. The drives are mounted in an Antec MX1 enclosure which has a fan that keeps the drives cool. My years of experience in IT has shown me that disks last longer if kept cool.


----------



## P Smith

elwaylite said:


> If I power down the HR34, then connect the dock to my laptop to run some smart tests with an external program, would that effect my recordings in anyway?
> 
> I'd just like to power it all down and do some *non invasive* drive health tests monthly.


No worry, just don't use tests what erase sector's content; Scan with Remap=On is the best - add to that SMART info before and after it; keep SMART/Scan results in a historical file to forecast a health of the drive(s).
MHDD ( boot from CD) or Victoria under Windows are best freeware programs.


----------



## Jason Whiddon

Thats what I was thinking. I have a pay program that will give me health of drive, and I have it set to more strick network drive calculations, as well as a short test that checks the read/write heads, servo, electronics, internal memory, etc

I can also choose to do a sector read test, but it takes forever and Ill save that until I see health drop from 100%.


----------



## P Smith

Those program (I'm using these for professional purpose before for many years) need 1 hrs per TB, I used MHDD for 1.5 TB recovery of our members here - one run took 1h40min.

[I'm posses some knowledge about design of HDD and software for it's tune/control; would you tell me what SW and version you're using ? So far, only specialized HW/SW combo could do head/amplifiers/servo/etc tests - the set will cost you $1-3K for start, so only professionals have it.]


----------



## Jason Whiddon

Im using HD Sentinel software.


----------



## mocarob

P Smith said:


> Those program (I'm using these for professional purpose before for many years) need 1 hrs per TB, I used MHDD for 1.5 TB recovery of our members here - one run took 1h40min.
> 
> [I'm posses some knowledge about design of HDD and software for it's tune/control; would you tell me what SW and version you're using ? So far, only specialized HW/SW combo could do head/amplifiers/servo/etc tests - the set will cost you $1-3K for start, so only professionals have it.]


Do you get the same performance out of victoria? about 1tb per hour?
If so, my PC must be really slow.
Connected via internal sata controller it would take 3hrs on my PC.


----------



## P Smith

I prefer do that professionally - dedicated PC (not that modern, just old Pentuim Dual core 2.4 GHz, 2 GB ram, DVD/CD, USB and bunch of SATA ports - RAID card with 4 ports, etc) and run only one program under DOS(!) - no multitasking (!) - MHDD from USB stick or floppy or CDROM. Also I have a battery of small SATA HDDs (40-80 GB) with separate OSes - Windows-es, Linux-es for other tasks, processes like DTV drive copy, etc. I don't use main PCs for the stuff; more productive, clean, non-disturbing job is on separate PC ... especially if just one run (sometimes you need a few of them) taking hours like dying HDD with many bad blocks.

You didn't answer what pay SW you're using for test drives?


----------



## P Smith

mocarob said:


> Do you get the same performance out of victoria? about 1tb per hour?
> If so, my PC must be really slow.
> Connected via internal sata controller it would take 3hrs on my PC.


Check what effective speed of the SATA channel/drive after auto-negotiation ? Perhaps 1.5 Gbps, not 3 Gbps.


----------



## nsolot

External drive - WD AV or Black?

Greetings, it's been 1.5 years since I visited DBSTalk.

Currently I have HR22 with external 1.5 TB WD "Black" drive. Originally I tried a couple WD AV drives, but the unit suffered badly with stutter. The black drive worked much better for me, although the HR22 is still pokey slow with menu operations (and deleting a program takes 10-15 seconds)

For 2012, I decided to upgrade all 3 DVRs to HR24 (the other two are old DirecTivo SD).

I did scroll back a few pages in this thread. With 1,700 posts, I admit, I did not read them all...

From what I read, the MX1 enclosure is still the favorite. So what's the current best drive to put inside the MX1?


----------



## Jason Whiddon

Im using the 2TB WD Green EARX drive with a ThermalTake BlacX dock on the HR34, and its working well.


----------



## Rich

nsolot said:


> External drive - WD AV or Black?
> 
> Greetings, it's been 1.5 years since I visited DBSTalk.
> 
> Currently I have HR22 with external 1.5 TB WD "Black" drive. Originally I tried a couple WD AV drives, but the unit suffered badly with stutter. The black drive worked much better for me, although the HR22 is still pokey slow with menu operations (and deleting a program takes 10-15 seconds)
> 
> For 2012, I decided to upgrade all 3 DVRs to HR24 (the other two are old DirecTivo SD).
> 
> I did scroll back a few pages in this thread. With 1,700 posts, I admit, I did not read them all...
> 
> From what I read, the MX1 enclosure is still the favorite. So what's the current best drive to put inside the MX1?


WD EADS, EARS, EARX, EADS and the two drives that are made for DVRs, EVDS and EURS. The EURS is the newest DVR specific HDD. Good choices all if you can find them at a decent price.

I prefer the Thermaltake docking station over the MX-1, but you'll get good service from the MX-1. The TT dock is quieter, easier to install (no tools) and very dependable. And it's a lot cheaper.

Rich


----------



## CCarncross

For fanless, the Thermaltake BlacX are the current "du jour"
For actively cooled, the MX-1 is the one. But since they have a fan, they require period cleaning and eventually the fan will fail, especially if not kept clean. But the drives do run cooler in this enclosure, which means in theory, extended drive life. 

I have some of both. I currently prefer the EURS drives, the black caviars run warmer and are not really designed for 24/7 use. The AV-GP models run slightly cooler and it this application perform as well as other models. There is no need to be looking for faster and faster drives, faster spindle speeds etc., as it actually doesnt improve performance in the least for this type of use. They are just more expensive and generate more heat. I'm all for faster higher performance drives when necessary, gaming pc, servers, etc...this is not one of the scenarios.


----------



## Jason Whiddon

I agree, so far when recording 4 things in HD and playing 1 previously recorded, I have no issues with the EARX.


----------



## brpostma

I was thinking about adding a eSATA drive to me HR21 and started reading threads about it today. 

Looks like for an enclosure a Antec MX-1 will work but I am not clear what HD to buy? The ones listed on directtv.com appear to be older models that are not readily available. Is there a listing of drives known to work with the HR21?

Also given the cost of the drive and enclosure, would I be better off upgrading the HR21?

thanks
bpostma


----------



## Rich

brpostma said:


> I was thinking about adding a eSATA drive to me HR21 and started reading threads about it today.
> 
> Looks like for an enclosure a Antec MX-1 will work but I am not clear what HD to buy? The ones listed on directtv.com appear to be older models that are not readily available. Is there a listing of drives known to work with the HR21?


I listed them on post# 1776 of this thread. You might want to wait a while for the prices to drop.



> Also given the cost of the drive and enclosure, would I be better off upgrading the HR21?


All you'll get with a 24 is a 500GB HDD stock. Put an external 2TB HDD on that 24 and you're set.

Rich


----------



## brpostma

Thanks Rich!.

I should have mentioned that post as I did read it before I posted my reply. I really wanted to make sure those all work with the HR21 as the hr21 seems to be the most fickle of the hr series.

thanks
bp


----------



## Rich

brpostma said:


> Thanks Rich!.
> 
> I should have mentioned that post as I did read it before I posted my reply. I really wanted to make sure those all work with the HR21 as the hr21 seems to be the most fickle of the hr series.
> 
> thanks
> bp


They will all work on any HR, as far as I know.

I really don't like the whole 21 series, that includes the 22s and the 23. I have one 21-200 left and I have to say I'm deeply impressed with how it works with the new GUI. One problem the 21 series have always had is that they are slow. The new GUI really speeded up the way the 21-200 handles the Guide and Playlist and functions of that ilk.

Rich


----------



## brpostma

I based my skepticism of the HR21 based on this thread: (ugh i cant post the url) (the eSATA FAQ found in Tips and Resources) Looks like that information is no longer valid about the hr21 and the limited set of enclosures and drives that work with it?


----------



## Cliff3f

Hi, guys.

I just lost the hard drive in my HR22 and Directv is sending a replacement DVR and I'm thinking of installing an external drive for more capacity and no warranty voiding issues.

I notice that the WD EARS and the newer EARX transfer rates; 3 gbps and 6 gbps. Is the newer 6gbps technology backward compatable with the 3gbps?

Do you think there would be a real advantage of a DVR specific drive like the EURS over a generic EARX?

I just read somewhere that the WD Intellipark that comes on some of their drives may cause a problem in DVR use. Any thoughts?

Thanks for whatevery you have to offer.

Regards,

Cliff


----------



## P Smith

> I just read somewhere that the WD Intellipark that comes on some of their drives may cause a problem in DVR use. Any thoughts?


Any quote of relevant info or a link to it ?



> Do you think there would be a real advantage of a DVR specific drive like the EURS over a generic EARX?


Just a few posts back there was a couple posts related to differences ...


> Is the newer 6gbps technology backward compatable with the 3gbps?


It's the standard requirement.


----------



## CCarncross

Cliff3f said:


> Hi, guys.
> 
> I just lost the hard drive in my HR22 and Directv is sending a replacement DVR and I'm thinking of installing an external drive for more capacity and no warranty voiding issues.
> 
> I notice that the WD EARS and the newer EARX transfer rates; 3 gbps and 6 gbps. Is the newer 6gbps technology backward compatable with the 3gbps?
> 
> Do you think there would be a real advantage of a DVR specific drive like the EURS over a generic EARX?
> 
> I just read somewhere that the WD Intellipark that comes on some of their drives may cause a problem in DVR use. Any thoughts?
> 
> Thanks for whatevery you have to offer.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Cliff


I just posted info pertaining to the new faster drives just a few posts above yours....The entire HR2x series as far I know only operate at 1.5 Gb/s anyway..if you can still get the 3Gb/s models do so, you gain absolutely nothing from a drive capable of 6Gb/s transfer rates if what you are connecting it to is not capable of using the newer transfer rate...I believe every drive I currently have in use connected to an HD DVR have Intelliseek( I think thats what you really meant) technology on them, and have been using these drives or slightly earlier models since fall of 2006, never had an issue. Where did you read this, because in 5+ years experience I've had with adding drives to my DVR's, its never come up once.


----------



## Cliff3f

Thanks for the quick reply. As for the intellipark issue, I found it while doing a google search. It wasn't specific to use in DVR's but I was concerned anyway because when I searched specifically for 'intellipark' I got a lot of hits on problems. If you haven't had any problems in DVR use that is good enough for me.

I was interested in the info on transfer speed compatablility not for the sake of looking for a higher transfer speed drive but because it looks like new drives are coming mostly in the faster 6 gbps spec. I wanted to find out if I got a very current drive with the 6 gbps spec would work with the DVR.

Many thanks.

Cliff


----------



## P Smith

No one drive has a hardlock to 6 Gbps interface speed. By specs of SATA interface.

So, would you like give us here a brief description of the Intellipark issue ?


----------



## mocarob

P Smith said:


> Check what effective speed of the SATA channel/drive after auto-negotiation ? Perhaps 1.5 Gbps, not 3 Gbps.


If i knew how I would.


----------



## P Smith

Indirectly: by speed of files transfer ; really - by system logs.


----------



## RunnerFL

If you really want to protect your recordings I'd suggest the Sans Digital MobileSTOR MS2UTN+. I just recently picked one up and this puppy is awesome (not taking into consideration the first one I got was defective).

You can put 2 2TB drives in it and set it for RAID1, giving you 2TB of usable space (The DVRs limit), and if one drive fails you don't lose your recordings because they are on the second drive. I've messed with this a bit now and I've been able to shutdown my HR21, pull both drives out and put them each individually in a thermaltake doc and the HR21 will boot up using each one and all recordings are on both drives. I even took one drive out, removed all partitions and put it back in and it mirrored the first drive overnight. 

Now keep in mind if your DVR itself fails you still lose your recordings but with this setup if a drive fails you lose nothing.


----------



## CCarncross

Cliff3f said:


> Thanks for the quick reply. As for the intellipark issue, I found it while doing a google search. It wasn't specific to use in DVR's but I was concerned anyway because when I searched specifically for 'intellipark' I got a lot of hits on problems. If you haven't had any problems in DVR use that is good enough for me.
> 
> I was interested in the info on transfer speed compatablility not for the sake of looking for a higher transfer speed drive but because it looks like new drives are coming mostly in the faster 6 gbps spec. I wanted to find out if I got a very current drive with the 6 gbps spec would work with the DVR.
> 
> Many thanks.
> 
> Cliff


intellipark I don't believe comes into play unless the system tried to go to standby or hibernate. Since the current dvrs are always buffeing live video, even when off, my gut tells me the drives never go idle so they would never try to park.


----------



## Jason Whiddon

"CCarncross" said:


> intellipark I don't believe comes into play unless the system tried to go to standby or hibernate. Since the current dvrs are always buffeing live video, even when off, my gut tells me the drives never go idle so they would never try to park.


Yepp.


----------



## nsolot

Thanks for all the great replies to my Q. 

I have a follow up Q about the Thermaltake BlacX (which looks like a cinch to install the drive). Do you do anything to control/prevent dust from getting in the drive or the Thermaltake BlacX? Or just hit it with some compressed air every so often?


----------



## Rich

brpostma said:


> I based my skepticism of the HR21 based on this thread: (ugh i cant post the url) (the eSATA FAQ found in Tips and Resources) Looks like that information is no longer valid about the hr21 and the limited set of enclosures and drives that work with it?


All the long eSATA threads are full of info that's not valid anymore. I wouldn't go back more than four or five pages on them. What we found in that thread, if it's the one I think it is, is outdated. Almost 1,800 posts on this thread. The same with the other ones. That's an awful lot of info to wade thru, especially when you don't know what's still true and what isn't. And what's just opinions.

In that thread you refer to, the eSATA out of the box models aren't even produced anymore.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Cliff3f said:


> Thanks for the quick reply. As for the intellipark issue, I found it while doing a google search. It wasn't specific to use in DVR's but I was concerned anyway because when I searched specifically for 'intellipark' I got a lot of hits on problems. If you haven't had any problems in DVR use that is good enough for me.
> 
> I was interested in the info on transfer speed compatablility not for the sake of looking for a higher transfer speed drive but because it looks like new drives are coming mostly in the faster 6 gbps spec. *I wanted to find out if I got a very current drive with the 6 gbps spec would work with the DVR*.
> 
> Many thanks.
> 
> Cliff


So far, the WD models that have the 6Gbs transfer speed that have been tried work with the HRs. You're still only gonna get a 1.5Gbs transfer speed, tho.

Rich


----------



## Rich

RunnerFL said:


> If you really want to protect your recordings I'd suggest the Sans Digital MobileSTOR MS2UTN+. I just recently picked one up and this puppy is awesome (not taking into consideration the first one I got was defective).
> 
> You can put 2 2TB drives in it and set it for RAID1, giving you 2TB of usable space (The DVRs limit), and if one drive fails you don't lose your recordings because they are on the second drive. I've messed with this a bit now and I've been able to shutdown my HR21, pull both drives out and put them each individually in a thermaltake doc and the HR21 will boot up using each one and all recordings are on both drives. I even took one drive out, removed all partitions and put it back in and it mirrored the first drive overnight.
> 
> *Now keep in mind if your DVR itself fails you still lose your recordings* but with this setup if a drive fails you lose nothing.


And that's the biggest drawback about putting two very expensive HDDs in a RAID box. If the prices of the HDDs would come down to pre-flood prices, I could see using one. Even then, you can't get away from the marriage of HR and HDD to each other. Just checked the prices on Amazon and the WDs have come down a little bit.

Rich


----------



## Rich

nsolot said:


> Thanks for all the great replies to my Q.
> 
> I have a follow up Q about the Thermaltake BlacX (which looks like a cinch to install the drive). Do you do anything to control/prevent dust from getting in the drive or the Thermaltake BlacX? Or just hit it with some compressed air every so often?


I've got several of them and see no dust accumulation at all on any of them.

Rich


----------



## RunnerFL

Rich said:


> And that's the biggest drawback about putting two very expensive HDDs in a RAID box. If the prices of the HDDs would come down to pre-flood prices, I could see using one. Even then, you can't get away from the marriage of HR and HDD to each other. Just checked the prices on Amazon and the WDs have come down a little bit.
> 
> Rich


Yeah, definitely. I already had the 2TB drives or I would have waited for the prices to come down myself. Once/if they get back to where they were I may just do this on my than one DVR.


----------



## nsolot

Rich said:


> I've got several of them and see no dust accumulation at all on any of them.
> 
> Rich


I'm jealous. I just moved the AV stand and got back there with the Shop-Vac. Loads of dust bunnies, cobwebs, and years full of things that fell behind, including a $10 roll of quarters.

Now I have a load of red-white-yellow cables for sale on E-Bay :lol:


----------



## Jason Whiddon

Im loving the 2TB space. I have a ton of crap recorded now and it still says 96% free


----------



## Rich

elwaylite said:


> Im loving the 2TB space. I have a ton of crap recorded now and it still says 96% free


Keep an eye on the capacity meter and see if you can see any slowing down of the 34 when it starts getting really full. Usually happens when you hit around 30% Available and gets rapidly worse as you put more content on it. Can't help but wonder if that was fixed on the 34s.

Rich


----------



## Jason Whiddon

Is that still the case with the HDGui?


----------



## Rich

elwaylite said:


> Is that still the case with the HDGui?


Good point? Does one have that much to do with the other? I've got one 24-500 with a 2TB HDD on it that's getting close to the 30% mark and I'll be able to tell then whether it's the GUI or the 34, if the 34 doesn't bog down when you fill that drive up.

Sounds confusing.


----------



## nsolot

One more Q about using an external eSata drive. Will the units have to rebuild the 2 week program guide after I install new drive?

TIA


----------



## Jason Whiddon

Yes, series links and all are stored on the HDD. You will have to set them back up.


----------



## CCarncross

nsolot said:


> One more Q about using an external eSata drive. Will the units have to rebuild the 2 week program guide after I install new drive?
> 
> TIA


Yes, except for a few settings, it'll be like a brand new dvr. It seems to retain a few system settings, but you'll have to put all your series links back in as well..the guide data takes about a day or so to repopulate, its really pretty painless. The harder part is re-entering all the series links.


----------



## Lord Vader

CCarncross said:


> but you'll have to put all your series links back in as well.


I didn't.


----------



## Jason Whiddon

Lord Vader said:


> I didn't.


Ive always had to put them back in, and when unplugging the EHD and rebooting, old series links/recordings on the internal are still there.


----------



## Lord Vader

When I added a 2TB drive to my HR24 a few months ago, I just plugged it in and left everything else alone. My series links and settings remained unaltered.


----------



## Jason Whiddon

No to sound insulting, but are you sure the 2TB is actually working?

Ive just never seen that behavior that I can recall.


----------



## Lord Vader

Yup, because my capacity increased significantly.


----------



## Jason Whiddon

Lord Vader said:


> Yup, because my capacity increased significantly.


Weird. I coulda swore when I added an EHD last time I had to redo all my links. Maybe I am thinking about my favorites...

I just did some searching, and I was right

http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=2161814&postcount=52

Is this something they maybe updated to be different later?


----------



## David Ortiz

Lord Vader said:


> Yup, because my capacity increased significantly.


It sounds like you copied an existing drive with recordings and series links to a new 2TB drive.


----------



## Lord Vader

Nope. I simply connected my new drive.


----------



## Jason Whiddon

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2264449#post2264449

Something has either changed, or I dunno.


----------



## CCarncross

The SL's are on the drive, so if you change to an external drive and don't copy the old drive to the new drive, the SL's are not there. It has never worked any other way.


----------



## P Smith

It couldn't magic by Wizard of Oz or Dark Force trick ... So, I would mark it as BS for start.


----------



## Lord Vader

Mark it any way you want. All I know is that I never had to re-do any series links when I connected my external drive.


----------



## RunnerFL

Lord Vader said:


> All I know is that I never had to re-do any series links when I connected my external drive.


As someone who just put an external drive on a unit I can say without a doubt that is not possible. Same thing with the 2 other units I added an external to and the 2 that I added an internal to.

The Series Links are stored on the hard drive.


----------



## Davenlr

Unless the drive was already on another DVR, with the same series links. The SL will remain, but the shows wont play.


----------



## Lord Vader

Nope, it was a brand new drive straight out of its box.


----------



## Davenlr

Someone slid you a repackaged return then.


----------



## Lord Vader

You guys crack me up. That's ridiculous. I bought the thing brand new from Amazon.

Repackaged return! Puh-leeze! !rolling!rolling!rolling


----------



## Jason Whiddon

I just wonder if you aren't using the internal thinking you are using the external.


----------



## Lord Vader

No, because once I connected it, the capacity increase was dramatic and noticeable.


----------



## Jason Whiddon

Well, The obvious question to me would be where exactly does the hr store these series links other than the drive? It can't be on the internal drive because it is shut down when the external is installed. Flash memory?


----------



## Lord Vader

I don't know; nor am I saying my drive isn't anything special. All I'm saying is that as God is my witness, when I connected my external 2TB drive, I did not at all do anything to the series links I had. It was quite literally a plug and play scenario.


----------



## P Smith

You forgot to tell us what DVR model you used with the brand new drive. Perhaps FW version too.


----------



## Lord Vader

Western Digital Caviar Green 2 TB Desktop Hard Drive WD20EARS.


----------



## weattv

Rich said:


> From past experiences with the FAPs, if you got more than two years out of one, you've done well.
> 
> You can use *this* instead of an enclosure. Easy to install and silent.
> 
> *CCarncross *has provided you with a link to do this. Just follow the instructions on that link.
> 
> We recommend only internal drives and list several external devices to put them in to make your own eSATA. For HDDs, Western Digital is our choice. And most of the Green Caviar drives seem to work well externally with the HRs. Try to find an EADS, EARS, EARX, EVDS or EURS at a reasonable price. They'll all work with any HR. I think. I also think that when you dig the HDD out of the FAP, you'll find the HDD still is functional.
> 
> Rich


Strange results after putting FAP in TT docking station: On first connection, for a week, there was little improvement over the FAP housing. After a week using another FAP, the FAP-TT was reconnected -- and this time it's working fine. Details below ...

Our Seagate 1T FAP (with HR20-100) started freezing, dropping audio, & not responding to remote commands after 3 1/2 years. While waiting for a TT BlacX docking station, we used the internal drive with no problem. Then we switched to our older 750G FAP filled with programs from 4 years ago. The live buffer & most recordings played on the 750 with no problem -- but all recordings from just a certain period of time had moderate audio dropouts.

Switched back to the 1T FAP after putting it in the TT. Hardly any improvement. The most recent recordings would barely play without video freezing and constant audio dropouts. The problems were never in the same spots. Older recordings were a bit better. Live TV was fine at first, but it and recordings started freezing more, the longer after booting up.

We went back to the 750, and then back to the 1T last week. Since then the 1T's been perfect!

We'd like to be able to switch back to the 750 sometimes -- but is rebooting unlikely to get the same good results?

Rich has some posts suggesting software updates might mess up some drives. The 1T was disconnected -- with just the internal drive on -- when we got the GUI update Dec. 15. Maybe this is why only the recordings from certain time periods worked fine.

Any experience with this? Thanks for any ideas.

I didn't do the HD tests because we haven't wanted to disconnect it while it happens to be working.


----------



## RunnerFL

Lord Vader said:


> No, because once I connected it, the capacity increase was dramatic and noticeable.


How do you know there was a capacity increase? There's no capacity indicator in the software.


----------



## jwhitler

Rosewill RX-358 V2 BLK (Black) 3.5" SATA to USB & eSATA Ext. Enclosure w/Int.80mm fan

Newegg

Have been a fan of rosewill and like the idea of the ability to turn the fan off.
As well as the price, but?


----------



## nsolot

Anyone has positive or negative experience with WD20EVDS? (date of manufacture Oct 2009). Planning to use the Thermaltake BlacX. This drive only has 32 MB of cache vs 64 MB in the current series of WD AV drives.

I have one that has been laying around unopened. I had a WD15EVDS that went bad after about 6 months which I returned under warranty, however I had already replaced the drive with one I bought.

TIA


----------



## P Smith

nsolot said:


> Anyone has positive or negative experience with WD20EVDS? (date of manufacture Oct 2009). Planning to use the Thermaltake BlacX. This drive only has 32 MB of cache vs 64 MB in the current series of WD AV drives.
> 
> I have one that has been laying around unopened. I had a WD15EVDS that went bad after about 6 months which I returned under warranty, however I had already replaced the drive with one I bought.
> 
> TIA


Check the post (I found it using Seach, btw) http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2785150#post2785150
Whole thread is actually good for reading/searching ...


----------



## Lord Vader

RunnerFL said:


> How do you know there was a capacity increase? There's no capacity indicator in the software.


Uh, it's called after recording certain things, the space left on the drive is indicated in percentages.


----------



## Rich

jwhitler said:


> Rosewill RX-358 V2 BLK (Black) 3.5" SATA to USB & eSATA Ext. Enclosure w/Int.80mm fan
> 
> Newegg
> 
> Have been a fan of rosewill and like the idea of the ability to turn the fan off.
> As well as the price, but?


Noise is a factor with the Rosewills. I've never tried one, but from reading posts on the eSATA thread (I do read most of them) I get the impression that they suffer the same noise problems as the MX-1s do. But the Rosewills work.

Rich


----------



## Rich

nsolot said:


> Anyone has positive or negative experience with WD20EVDS? (date of manufacture Oct 2009). Planning to use the Thermaltake BlacX. This drive only has 32 MB of cache vs 64 MB in the current series of WD AV drives.
> 
> I have one that has been laying around unopened. I had a WD15EVDS that went bad after about 6 months which I returned under warranty, however I had already replaced the drive with one I bought.
> 
> TIA


Been running a couple EVDS 2TB drives for a couple years, no problems.

Rich


----------



## inkahauts

Anyone ever try a san disc enclosure? They seem to have a nice 2 drive raid box. And then I also see mono price now has one but not sure if its estate yet.


----------



## RunnerFL

inkahauts said:


> Anyone ever try a san disc enclosure? They seem to have a nice 2 drive raid box. And then I also see mono price now has one but not sure if its estate yet.


SansDigital?

I just posted about mine the other day:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=2941133&postcount=1791

Works great and very affordable. It's the drives that are expensive.


----------



## Rich

Lord Vader said:


> I don't know; nor am I saying my drive isn't anything special. All I'm saying is that as God is my witness, when I connected my external 2TB drive, I did not at all do anything to the series links I had. It was quite literally a plug and play scenario.


Well, I guess no one else has a spare HDD laying around to prove their point. I do and I just put it in a docking station and rebooted the HR that had a 2TB with about 20-30 SLs on it prior to putting the small HDD on it.

The small HDD had about five SLs on it. Still had those same SLs on it when it came up on the HR. To make this clear: It did not pick up one SL other than what it had on it. I took that HDD out and rebooted with the 2TB back in the external device. Then I took a blank HDD and put it in the docking station and rebooted. It came up with 0 on the ToDo list and 0 on the Series Manager list. To make this clear: It did not pick up one SL the 2TB had on it.

What more proof do you need, or do you think I just spent a half hour proving what I knew to be true for nothing?

I'm trying to be nice about this, but you are wrong.

Rich


----------



## P Smith

Rich said:


> ...
> What more proof do you need, or do you think *I just spent a half hour proving what I knew to be true for nothing*?
> 
> I'm trying to be nice about this, but you are wrong.
> 
> Rich


Exactly pre-described result ! 

You spent your time for nothing for sure. It was just memory blackout ... It's happening sometimes when you are not young anymore.


----------



## Lord Vader

Rich said:


> I'm trying to be nice about this, but you are wrong.
> 
> Rich


You're not being nice; you're being ridiculous. How can you tell me I'm wrong _when I know what happened with my setup_??? I was there. I should know.


----------



## RunnerFL

Lord Vader said:


> You're not being nice; you're being ridiculous. How can you tell me I'm wrong _when I know what happened with my setup_??? I was there. I should know.


He is being nice. What you are saying happened is not possible. He even took the time out of his day/evening to prove it.


----------



## P Smith

Brain fart.


----------



## Lord Vader

No, all he proved is that it _*didn't happen with his setup*_. He must prove that it didn't happen with mine. All I know is what happened when I attached my external drive.


----------



## RunnerFL

Lord Vader said:


> No, all he proved is that it _*didn't happen with his setup*_. He must prove that it didn't happen with mine. All I know is what happened when I attached my external drive.


Then you're a miracle worker. It's physically impossible for it to have happened because the Series Links are stored on the hard drive. If you replace the hard drive, where the Series Links are stored, they go away plain and simple.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2768270#post2768270

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2767049#post2767049

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2264744#post2264744

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2042931#post2042931

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=1920760#post1920760

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=1542480#post1542480

And there are a bunch more where that came from....


----------



## Jason Whiddon

World is flat... No its not... Yes it is... No its not...



Ive done 3, and Ive never seen that behavior once, so I just think it's not working as you think it is.


----------



## P Smith

*Is there anyone seen such "miracle" ?* 

Please raise your hand [post here] !
All other [normal ppl] please skip the call.


----------



## Lord Vader

I never said it was a miracle.


----------



## RunnerFL

Lord Vader said:


> I never said it was a miracle.


If it happened then it is...


----------



## weattv

Lord Vader said:


> You guys crack me up. That's ridiculous. I bought the thing brand new from Amazon.
> 
> Repackaged return! Puh-leeze! !rolling!rolling!rolling


Maybe someone's just having fun with us?

FWIW, the Series Manager and To Do List are always different on our two FAP's and our internal HR20-100 drive. We've had to partly rebuilt each when switching from one drive to another several times the past month.


----------



## dbuchthal

I'm planning to get an external drive for my DVR and I notice that the Antec MX-1 is no longer readily available, so I'm thinking about getting the TT BlacX that folks are recommending. The only eSATA BlacX available at Newegg these days is the Duet, which handles two hard drives. I would guess that if you plug in two drives, the HD DVR will just ignore one and use the other. Does the TT BlacX Duet work well or should I poke around for the non-Duet version?


----------



## Jason Whiddon

I don't think the duet would work. I bought my blacx at amazon.


----------



## nsolot

Jason Whiddon said:


> I don't think the duet would work. I bought my blacx at amazon.


+1

With Amazon Prime, mine arrived 1 biz day. ~ $38


----------



## Rich

Lord Vader said:


> You're not being nice; you're being ridiculous. How can you tell me I'm wrong _when I know what happened with my setup_??? I was there. I should know.


No, I was being nice. Trying to hold back from what I really want to say now, too. Can't. "Ridiculous"? After I took the time to make sure I was right about something I knew damn well I was right about in the first place? And you have the gall to call ME ridiculous?

You were there? You should know? You should know better than to post as you've been posting. When so many knowledgeable members tell you you're wrong, it's time to take a step back and rethink your stance on this subject.

Before a Mod steps in, I'll leave it at that.


----------



## Rich

weattv said:


> Maybe someone's just having fun with us?
> 
> FWIW, the Series Manager and To Do List are always different on our two FAP's and our internal HR20-100 drive. We've had to partly rebuilt each when switching from one drive to another several times the past month.


Oh, no. He's not having "fun" with us. He's dead serious. And dead wrong. And he won't admit it.

Rich


----------



## David Ortiz

Rich said:


> Oh, no. He's not having "fun" with us. He's dead serious. And dead wrong. And he won't admit it.
> 
> Rich


I believe he is mistaken, as what's described just isn't possible. I thought this post was interesting.


----------



## Jason Whiddon

David Ortiz said:


> I believe he is mistaken, as what's described just isn't possible. I thought this post was interesting.


:grin:


----------



## Rich

David Ortiz said:


> I believe he is mistaken, as what's described just isn't possible. I thought this post was interesting.


Rather hypocritical, no? But hardly surprising. What do you suppose the excuse will be when he opens that link?

Rich


----------



## Jason Whiddon

I think the internal drive is still active, just sayin...


----------



## Lord Vader

Rich said:


> No, I was being nice. Trying to hold back from what I really want to say now, too. Can't. "Ridiculous"? After I took the time to make sure I was right about something I knew damn well I was right about in the first place? And you have the gall to call ME ridiculous?
> 
> You were there? You should know? You should know better than to post as you've been posting. When so many knowledgeable members tell you you're wrong, it's time to take a step back and rethink your stance on this subject.
> 
> Before a Mod steps in, I'll leave it at that.


Why does a mod have to step in, to say that he was present when I hooked up my external drive?



Jason Whiddon said:


> I think the internal drive is still active, just sayin...


No, it's not. My 2TB external one is the one the receiver's using. I connected it, turned everything on, and walked away. Period. Of course, Rich was here to see everything, so he must know.


----------



## Lord Vader

Rich said:


> Oh, no. He's not having "fun" with us. He's dead serious. And dead wrong. And he won't admit it.
> 
> Rich


I cannot admit that which is not possible to admit. All I know is what I did, and that's the fact, Jack. :kisshead:


----------



## Jason Whiddon

Well, its a waste of my time because with all my experience its not true. A few days ago I powered everything off, and when I powered up, the HR34 got going before my EHD, so when it booted I had no recordings and no series links. 

Fact. You can claim whatever you want, but it just aint TRUE.


----------



## Lord Vader

It's true if it did happen, and it did. I connected it, turned everything on...voila!


----------



## Jason Whiddon

Lord Vader said:


> It's true if it did happen, and it did. I connected it, turned everything on...voila!


:zzz:


----------



## Lord Vader

It's about time you take a nap.


----------



## Jason Whiddon

That was for you, because you are obviously delirious.


----------



## Lord Vader

If you say so. *hugs*


----------



## RunnerFL

Lord Vader said:


> Why does a mod have to step in, to say that he was present when I hooked up my external drive?
> 
> No, it's not. My 2TB external one is the one the receiver's using. I connected it, turned everything on, and walked away. Period. Of course, Rich was here to see everything, so he must know.


No one needs to be there to see anything. It's NOT possible! I even provided you with numerous links to prove it's not.


----------



## Rich

Jason Whiddon said:


> I think the internal drive is still active, just sayin...


It spins, but what other purposes it serves are unknown. And it has it's own set of SLs.

Rich


----------



## RunnerFL

Lord Vader said:


> It's true if it did happen, and it did. I connected it, turned everything on...voila!


It's not physically possible, period!


----------



## RunnerFL

Rich said:


> It spins, but what other purposes it serves are unknown. And it has it's own set of SLs.
> 
> Rich


I think what he was saying is that Lord Vader's internal drive is still the one in use. It's the ONLY thing that would explain still having his SL's, if he actually does.


----------



## Rich

Lord Vader said:


> Why does a mod have to step in, to say that he was present when I hooked up my external drive?


Does everything have to be spelled out for you? What I wanted to say would be prohibited by the Mods.



> No, it's not. My 2TB external one is the one the receiver's using. I connected it, turned everything on, and walked away. Period. Of course, Rich was here to see everything, so he must know.


I saw what happened when I plugged in two different HDDs and got no transference of SLs. As I knew I would. And I did it using a Thermaltake docking station, the external device that is so simple a neophyte could hook it up but you can't.


----------



## Lord Vader

"RunnerFL" said:


> No one needs to be there to see anything. It's NOT possible! I even provided you with numerous links to prove it's not.


Illogical.

They cannot "prove" anything unless they were here to see what I did. Sorry, but that's a fact.


----------



## Rich

RunnerFL said:


> I think what he was saying is that Lord Vader's internal drive is still the one in use. It's the ONLY thing that would explain still having his SL's, if he actually does.


He might have put a previously used HDD in. That or he's on the internal. No other way to do it that I know of.

But he'll never admit he's wrong.

Rich


----------



## RunnerFL

Lord Vader said:


> Illogical.
> 
> They cannot "prove" anything unless they were here to see what I did. Sorry, but that's a fact.


No, it's not! There's SOLID proof all over this board that the SL's are stored on the hard drive and do NOT remain on the unit when the hard drive is changed. THAT is a fact.


----------



## Rich

Lord Vader said:


> Illogical.
> 
> They cannot "prove" anything unless they were here to see what I did. Sorry, but that's a fact.


What exactly did you do? Do you know?


----------



## Lord Vader

"Rich" said:


> He might have put a previously used HDD in. That or he's on the internal. No other way to do it that I know of.
> 
> But he'll never admit he's wrong.
> 
> Rich


I cannot admit that which is not true. I also cannot deny what happened--I connected the drive, turned it on, & walked away pleased.


----------



## Lord Vader

"RunnerFL" said:


> No, it's not! There's SOLID proof all over this board that the SL's are stored on the hard drive...


I have never said they weren't "stored on the hard drive."


----------



## RunnerFL

Lord Vader said:


> I cannot admit that which is not true. I also cannot deny what happened--I connected the drive, turned it on, & walked away [strike]pleased[/strike] thinking I was running on a new external drive when I wasn't.


Fixed it for you.


----------



## RunnerFL

Lord Vader said:


> I have never said they weren't "stored on the hard drive."


That is EXACTLY what you're saying, think about it...


----------



## Laxguy

Lord Vader said:


> I cannot admit that which is not true. I also cannot deny what happened--I connected the drive, turned it on, & walked away pleased.


If those are actually the only steps you took, you are still on the internal.


----------



## Lord Vader

"RunnerFL" said:


> That is EXACTLY what you're saying, think about it...


Do not infer that which I did not imply.


----------



## Lord Vader

"Laxguy" said:


> If those are actually the only steps you took, you are still on the internal.


Nope. I'm on the external all right. I switched between them last night for the heck of it & confirmed it.

(I also know how to connect & operate an external drive.)


----------



## RunnerFL

Lord Vader said:


> Do not infer that which I did not imply.


Dude, look I'll spell it out for you.

You claim that you put a brand new, unformatted, external drive on your unit and your SL's are still there.

You also claim you aren't saying the SL's are not stored on the drive.

Your 2 claims contradict each other!!!!


----------



## RunnerFL

Lord Vader said:


> Nope. I'm on the external all right. I switched between them last night for the heck of it & confirmed it.
> 
> (I also know how to connect & operate an external drive.)


Not unless you completely powered down your DVR you aren't. You claimed you plugged in the external drive, powered up the external drive and walked away. If that's the case, which you claim it is, you are NOT using the external drive.


----------



## Lord Vader

"RunnerFL" said:


> Dude, look I'll spell it out for you.
> 
> You claim that you put a brand new, unformatted, external drive on your unit and your SL's are still there.
> 
> You also claim you aren't saying the SL's are not stored on the drive.
> 
> Your 2 claims contradict each other!!!!


No, that's not what I claimed.


----------



## Lord Vader

"RunnerFL" said:


> Not unless you completely powered down your DVR you aren't. You claimed you plugged in the external drive, powered up the external drive and walked away. If that's the case, which you claim it is, you are NOT using the external drive.


No, that's not what I claimed. Stop putting words in my mouth. I was stating a summarized version of what I did. I've done the procedure on several receivers, each time successfully. Everything starts from an unplugged state.

I'm running off the external drive.


----------



## Rich

Lord Vader said:


> Nope. I'm on the external all right. I switched between them last night for the heck of it & confirmed it.
> 
> (I also know how to connect & operate an external drive.)


And yet you have difficulty with a TT docking station. The easiest external device to hook up.


----------



## Lord Vader

I didn't have difficulty with it; my eSata cable did. The Antec is far easier than the TT to connect. I'm not alone in this assessment.


----------



## rsblaski

Around and around and around.....
We'll just have to wait for his complaint that his "external" drive doesn't hold as much as others on this site are claiming.


----------



## Lord Vader

Oh, it does. It's loaded up with a lot of HD recordings and still shows 89% free. :joy::icon_da:


----------



## RunnerFL

Lord Vader said:


> No, that's not what I claimed.


Yes it is. You need to either remember what you post and keep your story straight or you need to re-read your posts so you can keep your story straight.


----------



## RunnerFL

Lord Vader said:


> I cannot admit that which is not true. I also cannot deny what happened--I connected the drive, turned it on, & walked away pleased.





Lord Vader said:


> No, that's not what I claimed. Stop putting words in my mouth. I was stating a summarized version of what I did. I've done the procedure on several receivers, each time successfully. Everything starts from an unplugged state.
> 
> I'm running off the external drive.


That's EXACTLY what you claimed. See above...


----------



## Jason Whiddon

rsblaski said:


> Around and around and around.....
> We'll just have to wait for his complaint that his "external" drive doesn't hold as much as others on this site are claiming.


:hurah:


----------



## RunnerFL

rsblaski said:


> We'll just have to wait for his complaint that his "external" drive doesn't hold as much as others on this site are claiming.


That won't happen, he'd have to admit he's wrong.


----------



## Lord Vader

"RunnerFL" said:


> Yes it is. You need to either remember what you post and keep your story straight or you need to re-read your posts so you can keep your story straight.


No, you need to stop misconstruing and assuming.


----------



## RunnerFL

Lord Vader said:


> No, you need to stop misconstruing and assuming.


Interesting that you chose to skip over the post where I pointed out where you said I connected the drive, turned it on, & walked away". That proves I'm not assuming or "misconstruing" anything. It's in black and white for the world, or at least members here, to see.

The point is what you claim couldn't have happened, it's IMPOSSIBLE. Now give up and move on.


----------



## Lord Vader

I also said it's plug-and-play, but that isn't to be taken literally because it was said to emphasize the ease of using these. I KNOW how to install and run these things. I've done more than one, each one successfully. I'm running the external drive. Period.

I can't help the fact that _you cannot accept what is irrefutably true,_ and cannot also understand everyday colloquialisms.

I'm happily running a 2TB hard drive with no issues.


----------



## P Smith

:backtotop

Good thread is thrashing... :down:


----------



## Lord Vader

"P Smith" said:


> :backtotop
> 
> Good thread is thrashing... :down:


I agree. Let's get back to the topic, which is drive recommendations.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

Get Back To The Topic. If you have something else to discuss take it to PM or start another thread.

:backtotop

Mike


----------



## weattv

Changing the topic ... Rich has said software downloads may cause performance problems that look like a bad drive. 

Any other experiences that might explain why our FAP still didn't play correctly the first time it was booted up with a Thermaltake BlacX -- but has played fine since the 2nd connection to the TT two weeks after the first boot up & disconnection? 

We're still not wanting to risk disconnecting the TT-FAP so we can use our other two drives -- unless it's common to have problems after just 1st-time boot-ups, when the drive missed a software downloads. Thanks. (Details in post 1831 above.)


----------



## P Smith

We should stay on topic - Recommended List.

Would you ,weattv, please open your own thread dedicated to the particular problem what is not matching the thread purpose ?


----------



## weattv

P Smith said:


> We should stay on topic - Recommended List.
> 
> Would you ,weattv, please open your own thread dedicated to the particular problem what is not matching the thread purpose ?


I have read this thread for years. I think this thread is the one with the most discussion on the use of the Thermaltake BlacX, Seagate FAP's, and DirecTV DVR's. My question concerns them. (TT docking stations are on this thread's recommended list, if not D*'s.)

My question tells and asks about a situation other readers may have experienced, or might soon. They can learn from or instruct on it. Is that not the purpose of the thread?

Otherwise, they or I might be like others who have thrown out perfectly good drives -- with years of programming -- that only needed a new enclosure or station. Or drives with a new station -- drives that still don't work, but are not defective in any way -- and get thrown out anyway.

My question is a basic one of all users of this thread:

Is the problem caused by:

1. The DVR,
2. The external drive or its cable,
3. The drive's housing,
4. The new enclosure or docking station,
5. Firmware downloads, or
6. Something else?

Posts 929-950 are among the many related ones. I still can't find Rich's posts (perhaps in another thread) where he says firmware downloads may cause these problems. Has this been confirmed???

I hope that's the cause, & that D* has fixed them. If not, who knows?


----------



## P Smith

Please, what kind of recommendation(s) you giving by the side discussion ? You are for the issue, not recommending something... Just pushing to look into your Particular issue. 
May be, when you'll find referencing thread, would continue there ? Then more ppl will be attracted to that right thread and will give you some ideas to fix it ?


----------



## weattv

This thread immediately & necessarily evolved from a list of recommendations to a discussion of the issues encountered while following those recommendations.

The facts I gave can lead to a discussion helpful to all readers, not just me. The 22 cited posts are just some in this thread that discuss what you call my "particular issue." 

I made a recommendation -- implied but clear: Thread readers should NOT needlessly return, discard, or lose their drive, their docking station, or their programming, even if the TT doesn't at first solve things. 

This is not my "particular" issue. Just because it's not your issue doesn't mean others won't benefit from learning more about it. Just because you don't have an answer doesn't mean others won't.

If you have an answer, you might want to give it here. Or -- being an expert on the forum -- you might want to say where this issue should be moved to (thereby splitting it into 2 threads).


----------



## CCarncross

weattv said:


> My question is a basic one of all users of this thread:
> 
> Is the problem caused by:
> 
> 1. The DVR,
> 2. The external drive or its cable,
> 3. The drive's housing,
> 4. The new enclosure or docking station,
> 5. Firmware downloads, or
> 6. Something else?
> 
> Posts 929-950 are among the many related ones. I still can't find Rich's posts (perhaps in another thread) where he says firmware downloads may cause these problems. Has this been confirmed???
> 
> I hope that's the cause, & that D* has fixed them. If not, who knows?


Here's what many don't seem to understand. Your dvr is basically a computer, so lets look at it that way and what causes a drive to fail in a PC.

first and foremost: Drives fail, get used to it, the drive in your dvr is writing 24/7....it is always writing...think of it as a constant file copy being done on your pc, you never shut it off, it never stops. Consequently, there is a shelf life to how long a drive will work..

2, 3, and 4 are all related to the same thing...the circuitry on the enclosure occasionally goes bad, again, its electronics...almost all electronics fail eventually. Cables rarely go bad...if you install a cable but are constantly connecting and disconnecting it, moving it around so that it might become disconnected, I guess you could suspect a bad cable. Personally, I've never had a eSATA cable go bad, but I also don't do any of the above with my external drives. I've been using eSATA with my HR's since 2006 now, in fact even though I've changed enclosures on my original HR20, its still using the exact same cable from 2006.

5. Firmware(software updates in this case) do not cause HDD's to fail...just like (insert you favorite OS here) updates do not cause HDD's to fail on your pc. Sometimes a bad update can make your OS unusable, but that isnt a HDD failure. Now if the updates require a reboot, sometimes HDD's that have been running a long time, don't survive a reboot, or they dont pass the boot-up routine's diagnostics...

People can swear up and down that a new firmware update ruined the HDD, they would be absolutely wrong. The DVR may not function correctly after the reboot, but its not because of the firmware, it is because one of the electronic components(hardware) inside it didnt survive the reboot.

Hope that answers your question.


----------



## brpostma

brpostma said:


> Thanks Rich!.
> 
> I should have mentioned that post as I did read it before I posted my reply. I really wanted to make sure those all work with the HR21 as the hr21 seems to be the most fickle of the hr series.
> 
> thanks
> bp


Thanks again it worked fine!! Only bummer is it looks like the unit reset 100% having to put in my favorites, recordings etc back in. That seems odd, but oh well

thanks again
bp


----------



## nsolot

Thought I'd share my recent experience (and get thread back on topic a little bit)

Yesterday, hooked up the "brand new" 2 year old WD 2TB EVDS with the BlacX docking station and it appears to be working just fine. I left 1 series program recording on the old drive to see if some magic had been added to the SW and it would be retained, and it did not. The series list on new drive was empty, as I expected. Before attaching it to the HR24, I attached the drive & BlacX to a PC with the USB cable and used WD utility to run a full surface scan which took ~ 15 hours.

Some of the recent posts jogged my memory to approx 1.5 years ago. I recall a number of reports of hard drives failing about the same time as new HR software was released. I also recall reports that new software had some kind of background disk check, or some routine which was putting additional work on hard drives and suspected of shortening usable life (remember this Rich?).

What is now coming back to me, and I distinctly recall, is that the drive in the MX-1 attached to my HR22 starting acting flakey, the HR22 diagnostics said the drive was just fine. I first attached it to PC using USB and that seemed OK using WD diagnostic, however when attached to a different PC using eSata cable, the PC complained at bootup that the SMART diagnostic had failed on the drive. That is when I returned the drive to WD for warranty replacement.

My conclusion at the time was the SMART implementation on the HR22 was not very robust since it didn't detect a drive in the process of failing.


----------



## Rich

weattv said:


> I have read this thread for years. I think this thread is the one with the most discussion on the use of the Thermaltake BlacX, Seagate FAP's, and DirecTV DVR's. My question concerns them. (TT docking stations are on this thread's recommended list, if not D*'s.)
> 
> My question tells and asks about a situation other readers may have experienced, or might soon. They can learn from or instruct on it. Is that not the purpose of the thread?
> 
> Otherwise, they or I might be like others who have thrown out perfectly good drives -- with years of programming -- that only needed a new enclosure or station. Or drives with a new station -- drives that still don't work, but are not defective in any way -- and get thrown out anyway.
> 
> My question is a basic one of all users of this thread:
> 
> Is the problem caused by:
> 
> 1. The DVR,
> 2. The external drive or its cable,
> 3. The drive's housing,
> 4. The new enclosure or docking station,
> 5. Firmware downloads, or
> 6. Something else?
> 
> Posts 929-950 are among the many related ones. I still can't find Rich's posts (perhaps in another thread) where he says firmware downloads may cause these problems. Has this been confirmed???
> 
> I hope that's the cause, & that D* has fixed them. If not, who knows?


Assuming we're speaking about what happens to various HRs after an NR to an external drive. If that's correct, it could be the HR or the HDD, but the weakest link in the chain when you're using an external HDD is the external device. They just fail for whatever reason, not just NRs. Anyone buying an external setup should be aware of this. If the external setup stops functioning, tear out the HDD and try it with another external device. I've always found that the HDD is still viable and the device itself has failed.

For the first couple years, the NRs would destroy an unusual number of HRs. Marginal, they were called. The NRs have been pretty gentle for quite a while.

Hope this answers your questions.

Rich


----------



## Rich

nsolot said:


> Thought I'd share my recent experience (and get thread back on topic a little bit)
> 
> Yesterday, hooked up the "brand new" 2 year old WD 2TB EVDS with the BlacX docking station and it appears to be working just fine. I left 1 series program recording on the old drive to see if some magic had been added to the SW and it would be retained, and it did not. The series list on new drive was empty, as I expected. Before attaching it to the HR24, I attached the drive & BlacX to a PC with the USB cable and used WD utility to run a full surface scan which took ~ 15 hours.
> 
> Some of the recent posts jogged my memory to approx 1.5 years ago. I recall a number of reports of hard drives failing about the same time as new HR software was released. *I also recall reports that new software had some kind of background disk check, or some routine which was putting additional work on hard drives and suspected of shortening usable life (remember this Rich?).
> *
> What is now coming back to me, and I distinctly recall, is that the drive in the MX-1 attached to my HR22 starting acting flakey, the HR22 diagnostics said the drive was just fine. I first attached it to PC using USB and that seemed OK using WD diagnostic, however when attached to a different PC using eSata cable, the PC complained at bootup that the SMART diagnostic had failed on the drive. That is when I returned the drive to WD for warranty replacement.
> 
> My conclusion at the time was the SMART implementation on the HR22 was not very robust since it didn't detect a drive in the process of failing.


I remember, but D* seems to have that fixed, at least in my case, and I haven't seen any posts about losing an HR to an NR in a long time. And, what we/I thought were failed HRs might have actually been just failed HDDs.

Rich


----------



## nsolot

Rich said:


> I remember, but D* seems to have that fixed, at least in my case, and I haven't seen any posts about losing an HR to an NR in a long time. And, what we/I thought were failed HRs might have actually been just failed HDDs.
> 
> Rich


I have to defer to your memory. Best I can recall... you, or someone else, reported 2 or 3 drives crashing within days after that software release. I just remember thinking that with all the other reports of crashing drives, it was way too many data points to be merely coincidental.


----------



## P Smith

It was first DVR's virus !


----------



## Rich

nsolot said:


> I have to defer to your memory. Best I can recall... you, or someone else, reported 2 or 3 drives crashing within days after that software release. *I just remember thinking that with all the other reports of crashing drives, it was way too many data points to be merely coincidental.*


That's what I thought at the time too. I did replace a couple HDDs in external drives and they worked, but I'm not positive that all the times we blamed the HDDs we were correct. Might have been the HRs themselves.

Rich


----------



## Jerry_K

Never had a hard drive fail installed internally in a DVR. All my previous experience with TiVo where the drive was always recording two tuners. Total on time for drives not failed, seven years. So I second Rich's suggestion that it may be other than the drive that is failing. I did have one failed drive in an external enclosure. I think the less than robust power supply destroyed the drive. And I did have three failures of enclosures, including two MXs. Drives were still OK in two but the third was destroyed. 

I really do not trust any of the external enclosures/power supplies. After having problems with them on Series 3 TiVo esata expansions, I took to drilling a small hole in the chassis of the TiVo and running out a power cable directly from the TiVo. Then the esata connection of the drive was really no different than any other sata drive connection in a computer. Never had a problem with that solution. 

Since the DTV HRs only replace the internal drive with the external drive and do not expand to use both, I use the replace the internal physically method.

That said, I can recommend the Seagate Barracuda Green 2T 5900 rpm drive as compatible with the HR34 and the HR24


----------



## nsolot

Rich said:


> That's what I thought at the time too. I did replace a couple HDDs in external drives and they worked, but I'm not positive that all the times we blamed the HDDs we were correct. Might have been the HRs themselves.
> 
> Rich


In my case, the drive didn't fail completely, but rather playback would pause for a long time (10-30 seconds) and then resume. I replaced with a WD Black, after I did a disk image copy to save recordings. Same HR22, but different drives in my setup. The new drive works fine last 18 months.


----------



## Dessinge

I just got my HR20-700's upgraded to HR24-200's and bought a couple of eSATA Rocstor Rocpro-850 1TB's to go with. Last night I noted some stuttering in the picture.

Any of you familar with these drives or what issues might be causing the stuttering? I will probably return them if it persists... its just noticable enough to be irritating...


----------



## Lord Vader

Picture stuttering can sometimes be caused by other things, including having one receiver connected via powerline ethernet. I used to have that but was experiencing too much jittering and other issues, so I went to direct connection via ethernet and my problem disappeared.


----------



## Dessinge

Just to clarify, I was getting the picture stuttering on the show I was watching the comedy central hd show on the receiver, not on the other receiver thru whole home network - and it seemed to stutter both when i was catching up to the recording (more pronounced) and watching live (less pronounced but evident) - ...



Lord Vader said:


> Picture stuttering can sometimes be caused by other things, including having one receiver connected via powerline ethernet. I used to have that but was experiencing too much jittering and other issues, so I went to direct connection via ethernet and my problem disappeared.


----------



## Lord Vader

OK. I mentioned the other possible causes only because others, including me, have experienced one or more of them.


----------



## P Smith

Dessinge said:


> Just to clarify, I was getting the picture stuttering on the show I was watching the comedy central hd show on the receiver, not on the other receiver thru whole home network - and it seemed to stutter both when i was catching up to the recording (more pronounced) and watching live (less pronounced but evident) - ...


That's nice to know your issue, but what it have to do with the topic ?

Do you recommend the drive ? Do you know what drive's model inside of your enclosure ?


----------



## Volman

I have used 2 of these by Rosewill with a 1 TB WDEVDS for a couple of years. The fan is a bit noisy, but not too bad. I removed one fan and simply placed a small computer fan on top of the opening (used a "wall wart" to power the fan-or you can get a usb powered fan). This is very quiet. It's an aluminum case (used by Weakness in some models). I suppose it could be used fanless,too.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817173043

Fred


----------



## Rich

Dessinge said:


> I just got my HR20-700's upgraded to HR24-200's and bought a couple of eSATA Rocstor Rocpro-850 1TB's to go with. Last night I noted some stuttering in the picture.
> 
> Any of you familar with these drives or what issues might be causing the stuttering? I will probably return them if it persists... its just noticable enough to be irritating...


Never heard of them. How much did they cost? I gather you're fairly certain the eSATA is the cause. You might want to try a Thermaltake docking station with a Green Caviar WD HDD in it. WD EADS, EARS, EARX, EURS, EVDS will all work well with the HRs. Here's a *link* to the docking station.

The above setup is quite reliable.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Dessinge said:


> I just got my HR20-700's upgraded to HR24-200's and bought a couple of eSATA Rocstor Rocpro-850 1TB's to go with. Last night I noted some stuttering in the picture.
> 
> Any of you familar with these drives or what issues might be causing the stuttering? I will probably return them if it persists... its just noticable enough to be irritating...


By the way, you'll be much happier if you get 2TB HDDs instead of the smaller 1TB.

Rich


----------



## jtilley

Hi...1st, will the eSATA work w/a Mac? 
2nd. How do we retrieve programs from the eSATA?

Thanks, Jack


----------



## RunnerFL

jtilley said:


> Hi...1st, will the eSATA work w/a Mac?
> 2nd. How do we retrieve programs from the eSATA?
> 
> Thanks, Jack


1. No
2. You can't

The recordings are encrypted on the drive, you can't get them off.


----------



## Laxguy

jtilley said:


> Hi...1st, will the eSATA work w/a Mac?
> 2nd. How do we retrieve programs from the eSATA?
> 
> Thanks, Jack


1. Of course; everything works with a Mac
2. But: You don't get to play the programs on *anything except the original DVR* it was attached to when the recording was made. 
3. See *"nomad"* if travelling with your programs is a priority.


----------



## P Smith

jtilley said:


> Hi...1st, will the eSATA work w/a Mac?
> 2nd. How do we retrieve programs from the eSATA?
> 
> Thanks, Jack


1st - eSATA is a standard for external connector/cables/signals/etc for SATA devices.

Perhaps you asking for SATA drive inside of an enclosure with eSATA port ?

Then:
1)Yes, it will (depend of what you mean), you can read log files, etc. You can reformat it for Mac. Perhaps that's it.
2) Yes you can retrieve. Exactly. As files. No more then that.


----------



## billd1954

Hi,

HR20-100 connected to Seagate 1TB free agent pro for about 4-5 yrs. HDD unit just died after most recent software upgrade (last night). Was going to replace with same HDD unit. Any recomendations? 

Thanks
Bill


----------



## Rich

billd1954 said:


> Hi,
> 
> HR20-100 connected to Seagate 1TB free agent pro for about 4-5 yrs. HDD unit just died after most recent software upgrade (last night). Was going to replace with same HDD unit. Any recomendations?
> 
> Thanks
> Bill


Yup, rip the HDD out of the enclosure (not easy, but doable) and put it in a Thermaltake docking station or an Antec MX-1 enclosure and I'll bet the HDD still works.

Rich


----------



## billd1954

Hi Rich,

The internal HDD does still work. It was my external drive that died. My thought was to replace with Thermotake E-sata docking station and WD 1TB caviar green drive. I'm pissed I lost all my saved sporting events Stanley Cup and Superbowl.

Thanks
Bill


----------



## Rich

billd1954 said:


> Hi Rich,
> 
> The internal HDD does still work. It was my external drive that died. My thought was to replace with Thermotake E-sata docking station and WD 1TB caviar green drive. I'm pissed I lost all my saved sporting events Stanley Cup and Superbowl.
> 
> Thanks
> Bill


Let me explain what I meant. Take the Free Agent Pro (FAP) apart and use its HDD in the TT docking station. It should still work. I did not mean to take out the internal drive. All the docking stations and enclosures seem to fail before their HDDs do, so you've probably got a good HDD inside the FAP.

Rich


----------



## David Ortiz

billd1954 said:


> Hi Rich,
> 
> The internal HDD does still work. It was my external drive that died. My thought was to replace with Thermotake E-sata docking station and WD 1TB caviar green drive. I'm pissed I lost all my saved sporting events Stanley Cup and Superbowl.
> 
> Thanks
> Bill


Rich is saying that the drive inside your external might be fine, and by extracting it from the enclosure it might still work.

I have an old Free Agent Pro external which I can only use with the USB port (I only use it with a PC, not a DIRECTV DVR.) The eSata port has failed. The contents on the drive were not affected.

Of course it may be that you know that your external drive has actually failed, i.e. it has noticible audible signs of failure.

Also, :welcome_s to DBSTalk!!


----------



## Volman

billd1954 said:


> Hi,
> 
> HR20-100 connected to Seagate 1TB free agent pro for about 4-5 yrs. HDD unit just died after most recent software upgrade (last night). Was going to replace with same HDD unit. Any recomendations?
> 
> Thanks
> Bill


You might want to see if the FAP is still under warranty. Many have been replaced by seagate.


----------



## Rich

Volman said:


> You might want to see if the FAP is still under warranty. Many have been replaced by seagate.


They do come with a five year replacement warranty. I'd rather take the old one apart and use the HDD in a different external device. No recordings lost.

Rich


----------



## P Smith

billd1954 said:


> Hi Rich,
> 
> The internal HDD does still work. It was my external drive that died. My thought was to replace with Thermotake E-sata docking station and WD 1TB caviar green drive. I'm pissed I lost all my saved sporting events Stanley Cup and Superbowl.
> 
> Thanks
> Bill


Before you do anything with the external drive (after removing from the FAP enclosure), use MHDD or Victoria (search here how to use) and get a status of your drive first, post SMART data here.


----------



## billd1954

I didn't know about the warrenty! Good Idea! I'll probably take it apart and see if I can use on another computer.

Good answer David Ortiz - but a yankee hat.:lol: Red Sox fan here!!!

Bill


----------



## P Smith

billd1954 said:


> I didn't know about the warrenty! Good Idea! I'll probably take it apart and see if I can use on another computer.
> ...
> Bill


Check it first ! It's second hand device and you'll better know what its health.


----------



## P Smith

Well, new bigge rdrive DeskStar came from Hitachi : 4TB. $280 at Fry's.

The question is when these developers would pick Linux kernel with supporting GUID partitioning scheme and rid of the 2 TB limit ?!


----------



## buist

I am replacing one of my HR20-700's with an HR34. I am contemplating moving the external eSata drive to the new HR34 (just to be cheap - it is 1.5GB). I know the recordings will be unavailable, but will the series links be preserved? Will I need to delete the old unavailable recordings to free up space (and are there any gotchas from doing this)?

Thanks,
Tim


----------



## Rich

P Smith said:


> Well, new bigge rdrive DeskStar came from Hitachi : 4TB. $280 at Fry's.
> 
> The question is when these developers would pick Linux kernel with supporting GUID partitioning scheme and rid of the 2 TB limit ?!


Bad enough to lose a 2TB drive. I shudder to think how I'd feel if a 4TB died on me.

Rich


----------



## harsh

Rich said:


> Bad enough to lose a 2TB drive. I shudder to think how I'd feel if a 4TB died on me.


And IIRC, you only fill yours part way.


----------



## Pluvious

Off topic but does Dish Network allow a external HD on their DVR units?


----------



## Bartman94

buist... you will have to redo your series links, favorite channel lists, QuickTune settings, app settings, etc after you install a new external hard drive. Your old settings will remain on the internal drive but you can only access one drive at a time.


----------



## Laxguy

Pluvious said:


> Off topic but does Dish Network allow a external HD on their DVR units?


Yes. The Dish stuff is over there------>

:lol:

Their external set up is nicely done.


----------



## Pluvious

Laxguy said:


> Yes. The Dish stuff is over there------>
> 
> :lol:
> 
> Their external set up is nicely done.


Thank you, I ask because that was one of the reasons I was sticking with DirectV all these years. This helps me consider switching due to the cost factor.


----------



## Rich

harsh said:


> And IIRC, you only fill yours part way.


Right. I'd probably be comfy filling a 4TB up to a bit over 3TBs.

Rich


----------



## buist

Bartman94 said:


> buist... you will have to redo your series links, favorite channel lists, QuickTune settings, app settings, etc after you install a new external hard drive. Your old settings will remain on the internal drive but you can only access one drive at a time.


To clarify, the drive is an external from the HR20 that is being replaced. I know the recordings will not be viewable, but will the series links remain?

Thanks,
Tim


----------



## P Smith

buist said:


> To clarify, the drive is an external from the HR20 that is being replaced. I know the recordings will not be viewable, but will the series links remain?
> 
> Thanks,
> Tim


Theoretically they should - it's just DB without scrambling. Try and tell us if I'm wrong.


----------



## CCarncross

buist said:


> I am replacing one of my HR20-700's with an HR34. I am contemplating moving the external eSata drive to the new HR34 (just to be cheap - it is 1.5GB). I know the recordings will be unavailable, but will the series links be preserved? Will I need to delete the old unavailable recordings to free up space (and are there any gotchas from doing this)?
> 
> Thanks,
> Tim


If you move the drive to your HR34, everything will be there....all but OTA recordings will be unplayable..SL's, etc...are all retained.


----------



## buist

CCarncross said:


> If you move the drive to your HR34, everything will be there....all but OTA recordings will be unplayable..SL's, etc...are all retained.


That is exactly what I needed.

Thanks!
Tim


----------



## billd1954

David Ortiz said:


> Rich is saying that the drive inside your external might be fine, and by extracting it from the enclosure it might still work.
> 
> I have an old Free Agent Pro external which I can only use with the USB port (I only use it with a PC, not a DIRECTV DVR.) The eSata port has failed. The contents on the drive were not affected.
> 
> Of course it may be that you know that your external drive has actually failed, i.e. it has noticible audible signs of failure.
> 
> Also, :welcome_s to DBSTalk!!





Rich said:


> Let me explain what I meant. Take the Free Agent Pro (FAP) apart and use its HDD in the TT docking station. It should still work. I did not mean to take out the internal drive. All the docking stations and enclosures seem to fail before their HDDs do, so you've probably got a good HDD inside the FAP.
> 
> Rich


Thanks guys for all your help. I ripped the old drive apart, purchased a TT dock and new 1.5 TB drive. Booted off the old drive and it worked. Now I have a backup with all my movies playable! Appreciate your help!

Bill


----------



## Rich

billd1954 said:


> Thanks guys for all your help. I ripped the old drive apart, purchased a TT dock and new 1.5 TB drive. Booted off the old drive and it worked. Now I have a backup with all my movies playable! Appreciate your help!
> 
> Bill


You're welcome. By the way, that sound David mentioned sounds like the HDD is grinding glass. When you hear that, it's definitely time for a new HDD.

Rich


----------



## billd1954

With the old drive in the docking station, I amazed how often it is accessed by the DVR. It's almost constant. Does anybody use multiple drives with the docking station (Ex - one drive for long term storage?)

Bill


----------



## CCarncross

billd1954 said:


> With the old drive in the docking station, I amazed how often it is accessed by the DVR. It's almost constant. Does anybody use multiple drives with the docking station (Ex - one drive for long term storage?)
> 
> Bill


It is constantly accessed by the drive...I'm sure some use multiple drives, but swapping between them requires a complete shutdown and reboot. You should never depend on your dvr drive for long term storage as there is no solid backup strategy that is effective.


----------



## harsh

CCarncross said:


> You should never depend on your dvr drive for long term storage as there is no solid backup strategy that is effective.


I should be pointed out that you can securely back up the data, just not the DVR that recorded it.


----------



## CCarncross

harsh said:


> I should be pointed out that you can securely back up the data, just not the DVR that recorded it.


What method do you propose for these backups?

Beyond running RAID, I can't think of a way to effectively have a reasonably up to date backup of the drive. You'd have to take the thing offline too long to do it rendering the DVR useless. Since most of us are recording something virtually every day, you can't really take it off-line for 7-8 hours each day to back it up.


----------



## P Smith

RAID-1 would be the answer...


----------



## dpeters11

You mean RAID 1, right?


----------



## P Smith

Oops, mistyped (I corrected that post).


----------



## dpeters11

I figured. RAID 0 is horrid for when you don't want to lose data


----------



## David Ortiz

The truth is that you can use the method for copying an internal drive to manually back up (copy) your recordings.

Depending on what you want to keep backed up, a weekly or monthly copy might be worth doing.


----------



## Rich

billd1954 said:


> With the old drive in the docking station, I amazed how often it is accessed by the DVR. It's almost constant. Does anybody use multiple drives with the docking station (Ex - one drive for long term storage?)
> 
> Bill


No, don't go there.

Rich


----------



## RunnerFL

P Smith said:


> RAID-1 would be the answer...


RAID 1 is the best possible method to protect yourself from a drive going bad, and I'm running a RAID 1 enclosure on one of my units, however that still doesn't help you if the DVR itself goes kaput.

This thread actually reminded me... I just ordered another RAID 1 enclosure for my new HR34.


----------



## inkahauts

"RunnerFL" said:


> RAID 1 is the best possible method to protect yourself from a drive going bad, and I'm running a RAID 1 enclosure on one of my units, however that still doesn't help you if the DVR itself goes kaput.
> 
> This thread actually reminded me... I just ordered another RAID 1 enclosure for my new HR34.


Which raid enclosure do you use?


----------



## RunnerFL

inkahauts said:


> Which raid enclosure do you use?


http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001LF40WM/ref=oh_o03_s00_i00_details


----------



## P Smith

Don't forget to read all one-star feedbacks: http://www.amazon.com/Sans-Digital-...?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=0&filterBy=addOneStar


----------



## RunnerFL

P Smith said:


> Don't forget to read all one-star feedbacks: http://www.amazon.com/Sans-Digital-...?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=0&filterBy=addOneStar


That feedback has NOTHING to do with this unit. It talks about the LCD readout and if you read about the product you'll see it has NO LCD readout.

Not to mention 1 star ratings on Amazon are normally put there by people who have no clue what they are doing.


----------



## P Smith

LCD ? You should read before disguise these reports:


> I purchased this unit to use as external storage for a DIRECTV DVR running Linux. Worked fine for about 14 months and* then quit working*.





> Tried two units, both had problems. Errors. Unacceptable for a RAID unit needed for reliablity.


----------



## RunnerFL

P Smith said:


> LCD ? You should read before disguise these reports:





> I purchased this unit to use as external storage for a DIRECTV DVR running Linux. Worked fine for about 14 months and then quit working.


Had you actually read the next sentence it says "The LCD displays I2C ERROR !!!!!". There is NO LCD display on this device. The feedback left does NOT apply.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

RunnerFL said:


> Had you actually read the next sentence it says "The LCD displays I2C ERROR !!!!!". There is NO LCD display on this device. The feedback left does NOT apply.


I suspect the reviewer meant to post his comment for the MS2UT+, which has an LCD display, but instead posted his review in the MS2UTN+ by accident. I agree it's unlikely that review applies to the MS2UTN+.

Either way, IMHO, four reviews isn't enough to give me a good picture of the reliability of the device.

Mike


----------



## RunnerFL

Mike Bertelson said:


> Either way, IMHO, four reviews isn't enough to give me a good picture of the reliability of the device.


I've had mine for several months now and not had any issues. The first one I received was bad but that's because it got messed up in shipping.

Also, Amazon isn't the only place to read reviews and find info on this device.


----------



## harsh

CCarncross said:


> What method do you propose for these backups?


I don't propose that you back up your everyday programming. If there is something you want to archive, I suggest you put it on a different drive and make a backup copy of that. There are several competent cloning programs and some of them do incremental backups.

For the few that have only one DVR, it would certainly be problematic but I'm guessing the percentage of those households is pretty small.


----------



## Rich

RunnerFL said:


> That feedback has NOTHING to do with this unit. It talks about the LCD readout and if you read about the product you'll see it has NO LCD readout.
> 
> *Not to mention 1 star ratings on Amazon are normally put there by people who have no clue what they are doing.*


Now, that is a MASSIVE understatement! I read the 1 Star reviews just for laughs.

Rich


----------



## MrFubar1961

Hi all...great thread, but it'd be tough to go through almost 2,000 posts. Looked at the first post, see that it hasn't been updated, went through the last four pages...

I have an HR21-700. I'd like to go and buy an eSata external drive, so I'm looking for a recommendation for both a drive, and a place to buy. I've been a DirecTV customer for 13 years, and finally am opting for external storage. Woo hoo. 

Thanks in advance for some assistance.


----------



## Drew2k

It probably would be a good idea to retire this thread (almost 3 years old!) and replace it with one for this decade! 

Just need someone to volunteer who has a good handle on the current recommended drives ...


----------



## P Smith

Too many combination of DVR models, HDD models and enclosures, adding to that - new HDD popping up and new enclosures too.

It is normal course to have long thread - each one should walk own mile or hire a consultant who will spend same amount of time for reading and research but for money.


----------



## MrFubar1961

P Smith said:


> each one should walk own mile or hire a consultant who will spend same amount of time for reading and research but for money.


Sorry, but, that's a lousy attitude. I'm happy that you've spent the last 10 years as a member of this forum and amassed 10,000+ posts. I too have forums where I've been a member for many, many years, but, instead of turning off new members like you have just done with me, I spend the extra few minutes using my knowledge and experience to help the person, and hopefully cultivate them into the flock. You obviously prefer not to do this. If you speak for others here, then I apologize for my newbie entrance to your clique, asking what I thought would be a simple question given the parameters of my post. I'll find my answers elsewhere. Adios.


----------



## P Smith

You got it wrong.

Only gathering knowledge by yourself will benefit you.

[And your attitude is not right for your intention.]


----------



## MrFubar1961

P Smith said:


> You got it wrong.
> 
> Only gathering knowledge by yourself will benefit you.
> 
> [And your attitude is not right for your intention.]


No, actually, I did not get it wrong. I asked a relatively simple question in a forum that has a very specific purpose.

When you go into an auto parts store and say that your windshield wipers are no longer working, and you have the make, model and year of the car available, the person behind the counter doesn't tell you to go take a look around the store, nor does he tell you to go home and do some research. He has the requisite knowledge to say "You need a new wiper motor" and he looks up the part number, gets it, and sells it to the guy.

There are obviously quite a lot of people looking to expand their recording capacity. There are X receivers capable of taking an external drive. A list of those receivers, and hard drives that users here have found compatible, would be a big help to visitor of this forum. That list is not readily available. That's why I looked at the beginning, to see if the list was updated. It isn't. I looked through 40+ posts for a recent post. There wasn't one. That's when I posted to ask my question.

If you are looking to supplement your income by providing consulting services, you should consider stating this in plain English. There's nothing too shameful about it considering these economic times.

I shouldn't need to spend hours and hours researching a $150 decision. A $15,000 decision? Sure. Maybe even a $1,500 decision. But a $150 decision should require a simple answer.

You keep the answer to yourself, buddy. It's fine...if it makes you feel superior and proud, you go right ahead and puff out your chest. I've already ordered a drive. :grin:


----------



## bpratt

MrFubar1961 said:


> Hi all...great thread, but it'd be tough to go through almost 2,000 posts. Looked at the first post, see that it hasn't been updated, went through the last four pages...
> 
> I have an HR21-700. I'd like to go and buy an eSata external drive, so I'm looking for a recommendation for both a drive, and a place to buy. I've been a DirecTV customer for 13 years, and finally am opting for external storage. Woo hoo.
> 
> Thanks in advance for some assistance.


I have two HR21-700s, both have an Antec MX-1 disk enclosure and a Western Digital Caviar Black 750 G disk. I installed the two HR21s over 4 years ago with the Antec enclosure and WD disk and neither of them has ever given me any problems. The Antec MX-1 has a very quiet internal fan that keeps the disk very cool.


----------



## P Smith

bpratt said:


> I have two HR21-700s, both have an Antec MX-1 disk enclosure and a Western Digital Caviar Black 750 G disk. I installed the two HR21s *over 4 years ago* with the Antec enclosure and WD disk and neither of them has ever given me any problems. The Antec MX-1 has a very quiet internal fan that keeps the disk very cool.


As you see, Mr. Fubar1961, nothing changed in last four years.
That means reading and accruing your knowledge from the thread/forum would benefit you and lower your attitude.

Oh, you came to *a library* not to auto-parts store. So behave yourself, please.


----------



## Rich

MrFubar1961 said:


> No, actually, I did not get it wrong. I asked a relatively simple question in a forum that has a very specific purpose.
> 
> When you go into an auto parts store and say that your windshield wipers are no longer working, and you have the make, model and year of the car available, the person behind the counter doesn't tell you to go take a look around the store, nor does he tell you to go home and do some research. He has the requisite knowledge to say "You need a new wiper motor" and he looks up the part number, gets it, and sells it to the guy.
> 
> There are obviously quite a lot of people looking to expand their recording capacity. There are X receivers capable of taking an external drive. A list of those receivers, and hard drives that users here have found compatible, would be a big help to visitor of this forum. That list is not readily available. That's why I looked at the beginning, to see if the list was updated. It isn't. I looked through 40+ posts for a recent post. There wasn't one. That's when I posted to ask my question.
> 
> If you are looking to supplement your income by providing consulting services, you should consider stating this in plain English. There's nothing too shameful about it considering these economic times.
> 
> I shouldn't need to spend hours and hours researching a $150 decision. A $15,000 decision? Sure. Maybe even a $1,500 decision. But a $150 decision should require a simple answer.
> 
> You keep the answer to yourself, buddy. It's fine...if it makes you feel superior and proud, you go right ahead and puff out your chest. I've already ordered a drive. :grin:


I'll happily answer your questions. I'd suggest a 2TB HDD made by Western Digital and I'd put it in a Thermaltake docking station. The prices are kinda high for HDDs right now, but you can get a 2TB WD EARX for $129 at amazon.com. Follow this *link*.

Here's a *link* to the easiest external device, the Thermaltake docking station.

Got any other questions, ask and we'll answer you. Feel free to PM me with any questions.

Rich


----------



## Rich

P Smith said:


> As you see, Mr. Fubar1961, nothing changed in last four years.
> That means reading and accruing your knowledge from the thread/forum would benefit you and lower your attitude.
> 
> Oh, you came to *a library* not to auto-parts store. So behave yourself, please.


Peter, Peter, Peter. Must you?

Rich


----------



## Pluvious

P Smith said:


> You got it wrong.
> 
> Only gathering knowledge by yourself will benefit you.
> 
> [And your attitude is not right for your intention.]


As a subscriber to this thread I was dismayed at your response to a simple question. But you even took it farther by continuing to make a new member unwelcome. You strike me as one of those people who will cut you off while driving and when I beep my horn, YOU get mad at me!  :nono2: The whole point of these threads is to help each other out and taking a whole 2 mins to type out the answer isn't all that hard. You'd rather spend 10 mins being a hard ass. 

Welcome to my block list, you'll be lonely in there since I've never had to use it.

MrFubar1961
Rich's post with the link's is highly recommend by me and I have had that exact setup for a few years now. You can't go wrong with Amazon. Go for it.


----------



## P Smith

Rich said:


> Peter, Peter, Peter. Must you?
> 
> Rich


OK, OK, OK ... I should ... Just can't sustain the pressure.


----------



## Rich

P Smith said:


> OK, OK, OK ... I should ... Just can't sustain the pressure.


It's never gonna stop. Who, in their right mind, would read these overly long threads? Chill out.

Rich


----------



## Volman

pSmith

Ya coulda answered his question faster than it took you to reply with your "read the whole thread" MO.


----------



## MrFubar1961

Rich said:


> Got any other questions, ask and we'll answer you. Feel free to PM me with any questions.
> 
> Rich


Hi Rich,

I can't PM...not enough posts yet. Couldn't even quote your post 'cause it had a URL in it. Heh. But I thank you very much for your advice. I had my order ready for something else, cancelled it, and ordered what you recommended. I have one of the Thermaltake thingies here in use for something else. I love it. So that was easy.

By the way...nice logo. I've been a Yankees fan for 40+ years...the days of Horace Clark and forward. Have had DirecTV for 13 years now so I can watch all those games and get the Yankee announcers. Nice to see another Yankee fan.

And thanks, all, for your kind words and support. Didn't mean to stir up a hornet's nest, just was looking for an answer, which I got. Mucho thanks.


----------



## Volman

Rich said:


> It's never gonna stop. Who, in their right mind, would read these overly long threads? Chill out.
> 
> Rich


Ditto!!!!!

How ya doing, Rich?

Sometimes it's OK to help a guy out. You've always been a big help to me and my issues......and to many others. MUCH appreciated!

PSmith, not so much

Fred


----------



## Chuck W

Rich said:


> I'll happily answer your questions. I'd suggest a 2TB HDD made by Western Digital and I'd put it in a Thermaltake docking station. The prices are kinda high for HDDs right now, but you can get a 2TB WD EARX for $129 at amazon.com. Follow this *link*.
> 
> Here's a *link* to the easiest external device, the Thermaltake docking station.
> 
> Got any other questions, ask and we'll answer you. Feel free to PM me with any questions.
> 
> Rich


Just a note on those docking stations. If you happen to get the dual bay version, only one bay will work(as expected). HOWEVER, for whatever reason, even with just the one drive in it, they do NOT seem to work with HR24's(at least not the -500 models I have). I have 2 HR24-500's and neither will boot with the dual dock attached(the single dock version works great). However they work fine(again with only one drive inserted) with the HR20's and the HR34. I have no idea why it won't boot on the HR24-500's.


----------



## hasan

MrFubar1961 said:


> Hi all...great thread, but it'd be tough to go through almost 2,000 posts. Looked at the first post, see that it hasn't been updated, went through the last four pages...
> 
> I have an HR21-700. I'd like to go and buy an eSata external drive, so I'm looking for a recommendation for both a drive, and a place to buy. I've been a DirecTV customer for 13 years, and finally am opting for external storage. Woo hoo.
> 
> Thanks in advance for some assistance.


Your request is perfectly reasonable, so don't let the thread police get you down. Rich will help you (lots of experience) and if you need another data point, I'll help. Rich pointed me in the right direction a couple years ago, and his advice was sound.


----------



## Rich

MrFubar1961 said:


> Hi Rich,
> 
> I can't PM...not enough posts yet. Couldn't even quote your post 'cause it had a URL in it. Heh. But I thank you very much for your advice. I had my order ready for something else, cancelled it, and ordered what you recommended. I have one of the Thermaltake thingies here in use for something else. I love it. So that was easy.


Make sure the Thermaltake thingee supports SATA drives.



> By the way...nice logo. I've been a Yankees fan for 40+ years...the days of Horace Clark and forward. Have had DirecTV for 13 years now so I can watch all those games and get the Yankee announcers. Nice to see another Yankee fan.


Been a lot longer for me. I actually saw DiMaggio and Rizzuto play. Saw Mickey and Willie in their rookie years too. But, I'll never forget good old Horace. As for Yankees fans on the forum, there are plenty of us.



> And thanks, all, for your kind words and support. Didn't mean to stir up a hornet's nest, just was looking for an answer, which I got. Mucho thanks.


You're welcome. You just caught our resident curmudgeon on one of his bad days. He's usually more supportive.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Volman said:


> Ditto!!!!!
> 
> How ya doing, Rich?
> 
> Sometimes it's OK to help a guy out. You've always been a big help to me and my issues......and to many others. MUCH appreciated!
> 
> PSmith, not so much
> 
> Fred


Doing good Fred. How you been?

Rich


----------



## Rich

Chuck W said:


> Just a note on those docking stations. If you happen to get the dual bay version, only one bay will work(as expected). HOWEVER, for whatever reason, even with just the one drive in it, they do NOT seem to work with HR24's(at least not the -500 models I have). I have 2 HR24-500's and neither will boot with the dual dock attached(the single dock version works great). However they work fine(again with only one drive inserted) with the HR20's and the HR34. I have no idea why it won't boot on the HR24-500's.


I've stayed away from the dual TTs. I just use the one bay model. I've had problems with my 24-500 and external devices. It's not the HDDs, it's not the TTs, they work fine with all my other HRs. I used them on 24-200s with no problems and I'm getting ready to put one on a 24-100 (I will post about that). I think it's just something with the 500s. I do like the 500s, tho.

Rich


----------



## eddiesudz

Has anyone tried this particular enclosure?

Macally G-S350SU

The price is right and looks pretty sharp!

Sorry for not having a clickable link. System wouldn't allow me to do it.

Thanks.


----------



## P Smith

eddiesudz said:


> Has anyone tried this particular enclosure?
> 
> Macally G-S350SU
> 
> The price is right and looks pretty sharp!
> 
> Sorry for not having a clickable link. System wouldn't allow me to do it.
> 
> Thanks.


You would be first one who will try. Don't forget to post your result here. Also add your DVR model.


----------



## eddiesudz

Will do! I'm ordering them up right now!


----------



## eddiesudz

Well..... I might be a bit hasty with ordering up this nice looking case. Upon reading the user reviews I read the following....

_Overall, I'm very impressed with the two enclosures I purchased for add-on storage drives for DVRs. Like some have already mentioned, the blue power LED is too bright, but not a big deal.

One design issue (not a flaw, but something others may find pertinent) is that the power buttons are electronic (momentary contact switches), so there's not an actual hardwired on/off switch. Rather, you push the power button, and the small circuit board decides whether the drive should be on or off. This is a very common switch in today's electronics, and usually no big deal. Anyway, in my application (DVR), I ran into a problem when there was a power outage. When power was restored, the Macally enclosure stayed powered off, so when the DVR rebooted and couldn't find the external drive, it reverted to using the internal drive. With my particular brand of DVR, it uses either the internal drive OR the external drive (not both simultaneously), so I lost a few days of recordings, since the current recording schedule was contained on the external drive. Even though I like this enclosure, I'll eventually be purchasing other ones with mechanical switches once I find one with the right price and design.

So, product-wise, great product. But be aware of your intended application. If the enclosure is not powered by a UPS, and needs to be running at all times, you may want to find an enclosure that has a mechanical power switch, or at least has some way to config to "return to last state upon loss of power"._​
I may want to go back to the Antec to be safe... Hate to have to worry about checking to see if the drive is powered up.....

Am I being too paranoid?


----------



## P Smith

I wouldn't hesitate open it and make my own modifications: first I would bypass internal controller totally (!); secondary - it will happen by first mod, the HDD will be power directly from PS (ie no control by 'removed' eg disabled controller board).


----------



## eddiesudz

Hmm... that's an interesting option. One that I might have a more electronically inclined friend to tackle for me. Do you think there's any advantage of installing a manual power switch to power the drive down or is it the same as unplugging the power supply?


----------



## P Smith

eddiesudz said:


> Hmm... that's an interesting option. One that I might have a more electronically inclined friend to tackle for me. Do you think there's any advantage of installing a manual power switch to power the drive down or is it the same as unplugging the power supply?


I would bypass it for such critical configuration (DTV DVR) - you always could disconnect the power jack on back of the enclosure or pull its plug (it it have external power brick).


----------



## eddiesudz

Ok..... I will order one up and have the switch bypassed and let's see how it performs!


----------



## kingram52

What do you think about the thermal take max 5 compared to the one you recommend:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004G8QETS/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER
Also is it ok to put 7200rpm drives in these or do they get to hot .


----------



## P Smith

kingram52 said:


> What do you think about the thermal take max 5 compared to the one you recommend:
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004G8QETS/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER
> Also is it ok to put 7200rpm drives in these or do they get to hot .


It's active cooling enclosure, so - no worry about 7200 RPM drives.

Since no one post a review of it for DVR companion, you'll be the first. Don't forget to tell us.


----------



## Rich

kingram52 said:


> What do you think about the thermal take max 5 compared to the one you recommend:
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004G8QETS/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER
> Also is it ok to put 7200rpm drives in these or do they get to hot .


Some folks bought them and had success with them. Haven't seen anything about them recently tho. Don't know what that means.

I'd still rather have the TT docking station, just an opinion.

Rich


----------



## kingram52

P Smith said:


> It's active cooling enclosure, so - no worry about 7200 RPM drives.
> 
> Since no one post a review of it for DVR companion, you'll be the first. Don't forget to tell us.


Thanks, that one you are using seems pretty handy with swapping drives in and out. Would be good for storing a movie collection.


----------



## P Smith

That's is convenience of the BlacX dock what been helpful for IT tasks before and for DTV and dish DVRs and modded receivers [411/211/211k] now.


----------



## bflora

Yesterday I was doing some cleaning and accidentally unplugged the esata cable from my hr20-700 going to a wd my dvr expander 1tb drive. I unplugged the hr20, reconnected the drive and restarted the hr20. It tried to format the external drive but failed after a while. I tried this twice with the same result. I then restarted the hr20 without the external drive and it reformatted the internal drive. Any suggestions on "fixing" the wd external drive. I see they cost a lot more now than when I bought it in 2009.


----------



## Rich

bflora said:


> Yesterday I was doing some cleaning and accidentally unplugged the esata cable from my hr20-700 going to a wd my dvr expander 1tb drive. I unplugged the hr20, reconnected the drive and restarted the hr20. It tried to format the external drive but failed after a while. I tried this twice with the same result. I then restarted the hr20 without the external drive and it reformatted the internal drive. Any suggestions on "fixing" the wd external drive. I see they cost a lot more now than when I bought it in 2009.


Try this: Unplug the power cords of the HR and the WD eSATA. Make sure your eSATA to eSATA jumper cable is securely placed in the ports of the HR and the eSATA. Now power up the WD eSATA box. Give it a chance to spin up and then plug in the HR. If that doesn't work, you might have blown the chips in the eSATA.

If nothing works, pull the HDD out of the WD box and buy an external device and put the HDD in that. I've had the same problems you have now several times. The problem was always the external device and not the HDD in the external device. I'd suggest this if it gets to the point where nothing else works. This is a *link* to the external device I use.

Rich


----------



## nsolot

bflora said:


> I then restarted the hr20 without the external drive and it reformatted the internal drive.


That part raises an eyebrow for me. Seems to me that something is funky with the box if it reformatted the internal drive. After formatting the internal drive, did the box work? If so, then a new external setup should work.

If the old external device has been in service 3-4 years, that may be all you can realistically expect from it. I was just going to start a new thread on that topic.


----------



## Rich

nsolot said:


> That part raises an eyebrow for me. Seems to me that something is funky with the box if it reformatted the internal drive. After formatting the internal drive, did the box work? If so, then a new external setup should work.
> 
> *If the old external device has been in service 3-4 years, that may be all you can realistically expect from it.* I was just going to start a new thread on that topic.


We've been telling folks that for some time now. The thing to tell folks is that, altho the external device might be shot, the HDD probably isn't. A new external device for the old HDD usually solves the problem. And you don't lose your programs.

Rich


----------



## BAHitman

Rich said:


> We've been telling folks that for some time now. The thing to tell folks is that, altho the external device might be shot, the HDD probably isn't. A new external device for the old HDD usually solves the problem. And you don't lose your programs.
> 
> Rich


Until you try a new enclosure, you will never know if the drive is dead or the enclosure. Alternatively, you can put the drive in a PC and use the manufacturers diagnostic tool (dlgdiag for WD drives) to test it before buying a new enclosure...


----------



## bflora

nsolot said:


> That part raises an eyebrow for me. Seems to me that something is funky with the box if it reformatted the internal drive. After formatting the internal drive, did the box work? If so, then a new external setup should work.
> 
> If the old external device has been in service 3-4 years, that may be all you can realistically expect from it. I was just going to start a new thread on that topic.


Yes the hr20-700 seems to be working ok now with the internal drive. My guess is since I accidentally unplugged the esata cable while the receiver was working, it screwed things up enough to require a reformatting.


----------



## Rich

BAHitman said:


> Until you try a new enclosure, you will never know if the drive is dead or the enclosure. Alternatively, you can put the drive in a PC and use the manufacturers diagnostic tool (dlgdiag for WD drives) to test it before buying a new enclosure...


Easier just to put a new external device on the setup and see if that works. It's usually worked for me. I keep an extra TT docking station just for that purpose. Takes a couple minutes to see if the external device is shot. I treat HDDs like car batteries, if they don't work correctly, I buy a new one immediately. Hasn't happened to me in years.

Rich


----------



## RonH

I already had the BlacX SATA holder that I use for my Computer so I decided to order the WD 2 TB HD from Amazon that was mentioned a few Post back. I got a couple of questions. After I have setup my DVR to run the External Drive when I want to go back to Internal Drive can I just Turn OFF the DVR,unplug the External Drive and then Turn DVR back ON or do I have to completely Power OFF the DVR and let it Reboot to get Internal Hard Access back? And Secondly,say I have recorded some Shows on the External Drive and I have went back to watch some show on my Internal Drive. When I plug the External Drive back in and Reboot will the DVR re format the External Drive and I will lose any shows I have recorded on the External?

Thanks


----------



## Rich

RonH said:


> I already had the BlacX SATA holder that I use for my Computer so I decided to order the WD 2 TB HD from Amazon that was mentioned a few Post back. I got a couple of questions. After I have setup my DVR to run the External Drive when I want to go back to Internal Drive can I just Turn OFF the DVR,unplug the External Drive and then Turn DVR back ON or do I have to completely Power OFF the DVR and let it Reboot to get Internal Hard Access back?


You have to reboot every time you switch drives.



> And Secondly,say I have recorded some Shows on the External Drive and I have went back to watch some show on my Internal Drive. When I plug the External Drive back in and Reboot will the DVR re format the External Drive and I will lose any shows I have recorded on the External?
> 
> Thanks


You shouldn't lose any content going back and forth on the drives. Note that word "shouldn't". I have read quite a few posts about HRs reformatting drives when they shouldn't. It does happen, never happened to me, but it's kinda hard to ignore all those posts that say the same thing about the poster having his HDD reformatted when booting up.

Rich


----------



## RonH

Rich said:


> You have to reboot every time you switch drives.
> 
> You shouldn't lose any content going back and forth on the drives. Note that word "shouldn't". I have read quite a few posts about HRs reformatting drives when they shouldn't. It does happen, never happened to me, but it's kinda hard to ignore all those posts that say the same thing about the poster having his HDD reformatted when booting up.
> 
> Rich


Thanks


----------



## Rich

RonH said:


> Thanks


You're welcome. 

Rich


----------



## CCarncross

Just to refresh for some of the newer guys:

If you want to use multiple drives or switch back and forth between internal and external to watch recordings. This process will give you the absolute best success rate for no issues.

1. Perform a menu restart. 
2. When the lights go out, pull the plug on dvr. 
3. Shut down external. 

If you are just wanting to switch over to the internal, plug the dvr back in.
There is no need to disconnect the cabling to the external as long as the external is powered down.
If you always perform a menu restart and pull the power cord when the all the dvr lights go out, its the closest to a clean write on the HDD you can get. This will minimize the chance of something triggering a format during the reboot due to a problem with the HDD you are switching to.


----------



## marshdom

I just got my HR34 installed yesterday. I'm thinking about buying the following items, based upon recommendations here. I think these items might be a bit different (retail models?) than what I've seen listed on Amazon and NewEgg (by others here). But do this combo seem like a reasonable way to go? (Would like to go to BestBuy to buy them today - so that I don't have to wait for shipping! and prices seem to be about the same.)

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Thermal...83869&skuId=8990443&st=Thermaltake&cp=1&lp=37

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Western...rive/9234465.p?id=1218064150518&skuId=9234465

Am I correct that this will approximately double my capacity on the HR34 (using a 2TB external drive instead of the built-in internal drive, which I think is 1TB)?

Should I consider going with the a 3TB drive? http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Western...lver/2927251.p?id=1218397401269&skuId=2927251

I'm assuming these Thermaltake Docks stay cool enough and just require some occasional dusting (blowing off of dust)?

Does it look like the dock comes with the eSata cable that I'll need?

Thanks in advance for any insights!


----------



## P Smith

No one recommended 3 TB drive.

Rest is in accordance the thread posts.


----------



## marshdom

P Smith said:


> No one recommended 3 TB drive.
> 
> Rest is in accordance the thread posts.


Thanks for your reply. I guess I should have asked "can the HR34 handle a 3TB drive (like this one)?" [I realize that the 3TB question has been asked in this thread in the past, but appears to not have been brought up recently. Given the software updates, just wondering if maybe someone here has more recently given it a try.]

And I assume from your reply that I should not be concerned that the enclosure and drive are different models (retail/store models for BestBuy?) than others have linked to at Amazon?

Thanks again.


----------



## RonH

I just got my 2TB WD Hard Drive and connected to my DVR via the BlacX Holder. Every thing went fine but I had to reset all my Favorite Channels and Re Do my Show Scheduler and I got a Software update on my 1st Boot up. I assume this is Normal but my Question is as I switch back and forth between the External HD and the Internal one I won't have to re do my stuff each time I switch will I?

Thanks


----------



## CCarncross

No, each HDD will retain all its own settings, your Series links and preferences are stored on the drive, so switching drives will give you a different set of Series Links and or preferences. And to a poster a few posts back, 2TB is still as large a drive as any of the HR models will use...its tied more to limitations in the OS not in the code running on top of the OS.


----------



## RonH

CCarncross said:


> No, each HDD will retain all its own settings, your Series links and preferences are stored on the drive, so switching drives will give you a different set of Series Links and or preferences. And to a poster a few posts back, 2TB is still as large a drive as any of the HR models will use...its tied more to limitations in the OS not in the code running on top of the OS.


Thanks


----------



## eric57

harsh said:


> I don't propose that you back up your everyday programming. If there is something you want to archive, I suggest you put it on a different drive and make a backup copy of that. There are several competent cloning programs and some of them do incremental backups.
> 
> For the few that have only one DVR, it would certainly be problematic but I'm guessing the percentage of those households is pretty small.


This post reminded me of something I'd like to do. As a geetar player, watching video of an artist playing is a great learning tool-and portability lets you take it to wherever band members happen to be. Not everything makes it to DVD for burning to a FAT32 flash drive. So, I'd really like to pull video from my DVR disk onto a flash drive.

My HR21-100 records MP4 using the Linux file system, correct? Note that we use a single external WD7502AAEX drive in a Thermaltake Max 5 enclosure.

Diskinternals and a couple of other vendors make an Windows-based installable file system reader which locates mounted Linux ext2 ext3 partitions and lets you copy Linux files to a Windows file system.

Have any of you folks used this or other Windows-based Linux IFS products to accomplish what I'd like to do? I want to avoid creating a separate Linux box or VM and transferring files with Samba, etc. Also, is there a sticky post which describes the DVR structures/file names to identify a desired MP4 file?

Sorry for the length, and thanks for any wisdom--I know I'm probably asking a lot. And I hadn't even thought about copyright issues


----------



## P Smith

Well ... you definitely need search more, read more ... we discussed a few times what was it when touch partial copy in dedicated thread about "Copy of DVR's drives". Look for XFS keyword there.


----------



## BAHitman

eric57 said:


> Diskinternals and a couple of other vendors make an Windows-based installable file system reader which locates mounted Linux ext2 ext3 partitions and lets you copy Linux files to a Windows file system.
> 
> Have any of you folks used this or other Windows-based Linux IFS products to accomplish what I'd like to do? I want to avoid creating a separate Linux box or VM and transferring files with Samba, etc. Also, is there a sticky post which describes the DVR structures/file names to identify a desired MP4 file?


Even if you are able to read the XFS filesystem in Windows, what you would get is encrypted and you would be unable to view any of the video streams stored on the HDD. no Linux box would help you either for the same reason... I don't know if anyone has worked on or been working on a decryption method, but I would doubt it very much... your best bet is to use some other method such as a video capture device... but then that's where you come into copyright issues...


----------



## eric57

BAHitman said:


> Even if you are able to read the XFS filesystem in Windows, what you would get is encrypted and you would be unable to view any of the video streams stored on the HDD. no Linux box would help you either for the same reason... I don't know if anyone has worked on or been working on a decryption method, but I would doubt it very much... your best bet is to use some other method such as a video capture device... but then that's where you come into copyright issues...


Oh duh, encryption. See what shoulder surgery and an inability to tolerate narcotics can do to your brain :eek2: So unless a certain fellow NCSU alum on this forum, who also happens to work for DTV, wants to provide me a special Wolfpack license--I'll just drop it 

Thanks folks.


----------



## BAHitman

eric57 said:


> Oh duh, encryption. See what shoulder surgery and an inability to tolerate narcotics can do to your brain :eek2:


had both lower wisdom teeth pulled Tuesday... aren't narcotics great...  what pain...


----------



## FranklinS

Rich said:


> I'll happily answer your questions. I'd suggest a 2TB HDD made by Western Digital and I'd put it in a Thermaltake docking station. The prices are kinda high for HDDs right now, but you can get a 2TB WD EARX for $129 at amazon.com.
> Couldn't post the url,s for this and the thermalake docking until 5 posts.
> 
> Rich


Thanks for the info! This drive is now 119.00. Just ordered the combo. I just got a HR 24/ 200. I guess the HR24/200 is 500 gigs, right?

You made it easy!!!!!

Just got the stuff suggested. No problems. Took two boots and bingo! Took 30 minutes. Thanks!!!


----------



## Rich

FranklinS said:


> Thanks for the info! This drive is now 119.00. Just ordered the combo. I just got a HR 24/ 200. I guess the HR24/200 is 500 gigs, right?
> 
> You made it easy!!!!!
> 
> Just got the stuff suggested. No problems. Took two boots and bingo! Took 30 minutes. Thanks!!!


You're welcome. By the way, don't consider putting that HDD inside that particular model, it's not impossible, but hardly worth the effort since the 24-200s run so well with an external setup such as you just installed.

Rich


----------



## turfster

Rich said:


> You're welcome. By the way, don't consider putting that HDD inside that particular model, it's not impossible, but hardly worth the effort since the 24-200s run so well with an external setup such as you just installed.
> Rich


Rich....or anybody that can assist.

I have been running a 1tb on my current receiver for about two years and everything has been great. However DirecTV is upgrading my receivers so I because I am upgrading my service to the Whole-House DVR.

My first question, will external HD work with Whole-House service? And if so, I would like to upgrade my primary receive to a 2tb HD and need some guidance on what Western Digital HD you recommend? I am assuming (I know...lol) that I can use my existing enclosure???

And lastly, if I can do all the above, can you point me to the thread that reviews copying the content from my existing HD? I did it successfully when I went from my old 500gb to my current 1tb, but I can not find the printout that I had and/or the CD that I created with the software.

MANY THANKS for any help everyone can provide and I really love this site for all my DirecTV needs. I only wish I was as technical as many of you so I could post more and help too, but I am a bit of a neophyte when it comes to DirecTV stuff.

Thanks again in advance........


----------



## CCarncross

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=167440

Has all the info you need about the copy, pick up a WD Green drive as the new drive. EVDS, EURS, EADS drives all work well. I think the newest drives are the EURX drives.


----------



## Rich

turfster said:


> Rich....or anybody that can assist.
> 
> I have been running a 1tb on my current receiver for about two years and everything has been great. However DirecTV is upgrading my receivers so I because I am upgrading my service to the Whole-House DVR.
> 
> My first question, will external HD work with Whole-House service?


Yes, I have several external 2TB drives on my MRV. (MRV=Multi-Room-Viewing, a name I wish they would have stuck with instead of changing it to Whole Home or whatever it is now).



> And if so, I would like to upgrade my primary receive to a 2tb HD and need some guidance on what Western Digital HD you recommend? I am assuming (I know...lol) that I can use my existing enclosure???


Yes, you should be able to use your existing enclosure. Here's a *link* to Amazon's cheapest (that I could find) 2TB HDD, the EURX. That should work with any HR.

Rich


----------



## turfster

CCarncross said:


> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=167440
> 
> Has all the info you need about the copy, pick up a WD Green drive as the new drive. EVDS, EURS, EADS drives all work well. I think the newest drives are the EURX drives.


Thank you for the prompt reply and that's exactly what I was looking for.

Can I use my same Antec enclosure that I'm using with my current 1tb drive or will I need a new one?

Also, I quick side question, while I am having D* upgrade my receivers, what is the latest and greatest receiver to ask for (ie.: H22, 24, 34, etc)???

Many thanks again for your help.............


----------



## nsolot

turfster said:


> Thank you for the prompt reply and that's exactly what I was looking for.
> 
> Can I use my same Antec enclosure that I'm using with my current 1tb drive or will I need a new one?
> 
> Also, I quick side question, while I am having D* upgrade my receivers, what is the latest and greatest receiver to ask for (ie.: H22, 24, 34, etc)???
> 
> Many thanks again for your help.............


I'm very pleased with 3 HR24s which were an upgrade from a very sluggish HR21 and two SD DVRs. I had to order the 24's via Amazon, as DTV was going to give me other units. IMO, well worth the $200 per unit.

It's my understanding that you cannot copy the old recordings to a new receiver.

I'm also pleased with the Thermaltake BlacX eSATA USB Docking Station as a solution for the external drive. You can probably swap new drives into the Antec units, but for the time it takes, I'd opt to spend the $32.50 on the BlacX. No screws to fool around with, just pop the drive into the unit and you're ready to connect to the HR.


----------



## turfster

nsolot said:


> I'm very pleased with 3 HR24s which were an upgrade from a very sluggish HR21 and two SD DVRs. I had to order the 24's via Amazon, as DTV was going to give me other units. IMO, well worth the $200 per unit.
> 
> It's my understanding that you cannot copy the old recordings to a new receiver.
> 
> I'm also pleased with the Thermaltake BlacX eSATA USB Docking Station as a solution for the external drive. You can probably swap new drives into the Antec units, but for the time it takes, I'd opt to spend the $32.50 on the BlacX. No screws to fool around with, just pop the drive into the unit and you're ready to connect to the HR.


I am waiting for D* to call me back early this week to see what receivers they send me. I am mostly concerned with picture quality, so I do not know how the receiver models differ from there???

I am mostly likely going to order a 2tg WD drive and try o mound into my existing external enclosure (Antec) and try to copy the old content from my existing 1tb drive to the new 2tb. I was successful two years ago when I copied from an old 500gb drive to the current 1tb, so I got my fingers crossed this time around.

I am really looking forward to seeing how the multi-room feature works throughout my house. That sound be pretty convenient to watch content from multiple receivers.

All great advice and I really appreciate everyone's help with my questions.


----------



## CCarncross

turfster....since you are having your dvr's replaced with new models, the recordings from the old dvr's will not be playable on the new dvr's. They can only be played on the dvr that recorded them, or mrv but the recordings have to be initiated from the dvr the originally recorded them. The copying is only good for replacing a drive that may be failing, or going to a larger drive size, but on the same dvr. It does not work for trying to move the recordings to another dvr.


----------



## nsolot

turfster said:


> I am waiting for D* to call me back early this week to see what receivers they send me. I am mostly concerned with picture quality, so I do not know how the receiver models differ from there???
> 
> I am mostly likely going to order a 2tg WD drive and try o mound into my existing external enclosure (Antec) and try to copy the old content from my existing 1tb drive to the new 2tb. I was successful two years ago when I copied from an old 500gb drive to the current 1tb, so I got my fingers crossed this time around.
> 
> I am really looking forward to seeing how the multi-room feature works throughout my house. That sound be pretty convenient to watch content from multiple receivers.
> 
> All great advice and I really appreciate everyone's help with my questions.


What they tell you on the phone and what receivers actually get put on a truck to you are often different. The 24's are faster than prior models. There are many other threads about this.

We really like the Whole Home feature, however there is a limitation in that a unit can only act as a "server" to one other unit at a time.


----------



## turfster

CCarncross said:


> turfster....since you are having your dvr's replaced with new models, the recordings from the old dvr's will not be playable on the new dvr's. They can only be played on the dvr that recorded them, or mrv but the recordings have to be initiated from the dvr the originally recorded them. The copying is only good for replacing a drive that may be failing, or going to a larger drive size, but on the same dvr. It does not work for trying to move the recordings to another dvr.


Thank you CCarncross.....that is exactly the info I was looking for and you saved me a lot of trouble in that I now do not have to buy and/or switch HD's. But it does stink that I lose all my programming that I build up of the years....oh well, time to re-load (lol).

Many thanks again..........


----------



## turfster

nsolot said:


> What they tell you on the phone and what receivers actually get put on a truck to you are often different. The 24's are faster than prior models. There are many other threads about this.
> 
> We really like the Whole Home feature, however there is a limitation in that a unit can only act as a "server" to one other unit at a time.


Yea....I know that is what stinks about D*. There is no telling what the truck will show up with....hopefully nice new upgraded receivers?

What exactly do you mean regarding only one will act as a server. If I have (4) receivers in the house only one will store content and the other three will be slaves????


----------



## nsolot

turfster said:


> Yea....I know that is what stinks about D*. There is no telling what the truck will show up with....hopefully nice new upgraded receivers?
> 
> What exactly do you mean regarding only one will act as a server. If I have (4) receivers in the house only one will store content and the other three will be slaves????


When I ordered, I requested HR24's but there were none available, and the installer was going to show up and install HR21's, which I refused.

I have three HR24's. one each in Master BR, Den & Family Room. If we are watching a show in the Family Room which was recorded in the Den, and someone in the Master BR also wants to watch a show that was recorded in the Den, they can't. Since the HR24 in the Den is acting as a "Server" to the HR in the Family room already, it cannot also be a "Server" to another HR. The shows recorded in the den will display on the playlist, but there is a red icon next to them which means they are currently unavailable.

Also we can watch shows in the Den which are recorded in the Den while the Den is acting as a Server to another HR.

I can record content on all three HR24s, and some people here recommend setting two units to record any programs that are "must see" to protect against a HDD failure.

Hope that make sense.


----------



## turfster

nsolot said:


> When I ordered, I requested HR24's but there were none available, and the installer was going to show up and install HR21's, which I refused.
> 
> I have three HR24's. one each in Master BR, Den & Family Room. If we are watching a show in the Family Room which was recorded in the Den, and someone in the Master BR also wants to watch a show that was recorded in the Den, they can't. Since the HR24 in the Den is acting as a "Server" to the HR in the Family room already, it cannot also be a "Server" to another HR. The shows recorded in the den will display on the playlist, but there is a red icon next to them which means they are currently unavailable.
> 
> Also we can watch shows in the Den which are recorded in the Den while the Den is acting as a Server to another HR.
> 
> I can record content on all three HR24s, and some people here recommend setting two units to record any programs that are "must see" to protect against a HDD failure.
> 
> Hope that make sense.


I think I got it now. Basically if one receiver is working as the "server" you can not watch the same content in two different rooms; which makes sense. It does not seem to be too big of a deal since our kids have their own TV and own room/receiver and basically would only be needing to share program material in the kitchen and/or bedroom at different times. Either way, I think the multi-room DVR features seems pretty handy.

Many thx again.......


----------



## skoolpsyk

Ok, I made the leap last week and got a 2TB WD Green Caviar Hard Drive and BlacX. No problems with the set up. 

Tonight while watching dvr'd Mad Men and the Killing, there were about a half dozen cases of brief studdering. 

Should I be worried? Is this more common with large size drives or an indication somethings not right?


----------



## Laxguy

FWIW, I saw the same on Mad Men, stock HR20-700. Haven't watched today's The Killing yet. So, no, no worries just yet!


----------



## Rich

skoolpsyk said:


> Ok, I made the leap last week and got a 2TB WD Green Caviar Hard Drive and BlacX. No problems with the set up.
> 
> Tonight while watching dvr'd Mad Men and the Killing, there were about a half dozen cases of brief studdering.
> 
> Should I be worried? Is this more common with large size drives or an indication somethings not right?


Sounds like *Laxguy* saw the same thing, so it's not the HDD.

You should see no difference between the stock HDD and the external HDD when it comes to playback.

Rich


----------



## Jason Whiddon

Ive been on a 2TB Green drive and BlacX since the HR34 was released, and I havent had any problems. Im currently using about 30% of my drive


----------



## skoolpsyk

I'm just wondering if this early studdering is a sign I got a lemon. I'm running a surface scan test right now, so far no errors on any of the tests....

Edit: 
Western Digital Caviar Green 2 TB Desktop Hard Drive WD20EARX 
Thermaltake BlacX eSATA USB Docking Station
HR20-100


----------



## Rich

Jason Whiddon said:


> Ive been on a 2TB Green drive and BlacX since the HR34 was released, and I havent had any problems. Im currently using about 30% of my drive


It would be helpful if anyone posting about HDDs would include the model designation. "2TB EADS, EARS, EARX, EVDS, etc." There have been problems in the past with some HDDs and a clearer understanding of which HDDs work with the various HR models would help a lot.

Rich


----------



## Jason Whiddon

"Im using the 2TB WD Green EARX drive with a ThermalTake BlacX dock on the HR34"

here is mine 

http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=2940833&postcount=1775


----------



## Rich

skoolpsyk said:


> I'm just wondering if this early studdering is a sign I got a lemon. I'm running a surface scan test right now, so far no errors on any of the tests....


Probably a waste of time since *Laxguy* saw the same studdering on the same show. That's a broadcast problem, not your new HDD or the docking station.

Rich


----------



## P Smith

skoolpsyk said:


> I'm just wondering if this early studdering is a sign I got a lemon. I'm running a surface scan test right now, so far no errors on any of the tests....


If you doing that inside of DVR, you'll got no useful info.

Connect it to PC , run Victoria , take SMART before and after Scan; it's GUI program you will see what spots (if any) get slow responses ...
Much better use it, otherwise you still do such tests 'blindly' .


----------



## Rich

Jason Whiddon said:


> "Im using the 2TB WD Green EARX drive with a ThermalTake BlacX dock on the HR34"
> 
> here is mine
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=2940833&postcount=1775


Thanx, be nice if we could get that data that easily from everyone. 

Appreciate the quick answer.

Rich


----------



## Jason Whiddon

LOL.

I know how nice it is to see "hey, that guy has the same setup as me and it works, thats what Im buying". Im going on 4 mo's at 30 hours a week recording, plenty of 5 tuner nights, and it works great.


----------



## skoolpsyk

Rich said:


> Probably a waste of time since *Laxguy* saw the same studdering on the same show. That's a broadcast problem, not your new HDD or the docking station.
> 
> Rich


lol, sorry I missed the posts on the previous page! (thanks Laxguy!)

I'll try some new recordings on different channels before I start to panic!


----------



## Rich

skoolpsyk said:


> lol, sorry I missed the posts on the previous page! (thanks Laxguy!)
> 
> I'll try some new recordings on different channels before I start to panic!


Have patience, you've got a good setup.

Rich


----------



## skoolpsyk

skoolpsyk said:


> I'm just wondering if this early studdering is a sign I got a lemon. I'm running a surface scan test right now, so far no errors on any of the tests....
> 
> Edit:
> Western Digital Caviar Green 2 TB Desktop Hard Drive WD20EARX
> Thermaltake BlacX eSATA USB Docking Station
> HR20-100


well, it's been a couple weeks and unfortunately it's getting worse. looks like I need to cut my loses and revert back to the internal drive...


----------



## Rich

skoolpsyk said:


> well, it's been a couple weeks and unfortunately it's getting worse. looks like I need to cut my loses and revert back to the internal drive...


Might be the docking station, the external devices are the weakest link in the chain. You could try the setup on another HR, see if the same thing occurs. The HR could be at fault too. Just doesn't sound like an HDD problem, but who knows?

Rich


----------



## nsolot

skoolpsyk said:


> well, it's been a couple weeks and unfortunately it's getting worse. looks like I need to cut my loses and revert back to the internal drive...


My suggestion is to pull the drive from the HR20 and plus it into a PC (preferably an eSata port) and run WD diagnostics via the PC. I had an HR21 and the disk diagnostics ran fine there, but attached to a PC errors were detected.


----------



## P Smith

Better to run MHDD from CD (make it bootable from ISO). 
Best diagnostics, best testing, clearly reading results, not that proprietary cryptic codes/messages from WDC or Seagate.


----------



## skoolpsyk

Thanks, I think I will try some of these other diagnostic programs. Heading out of town for a week; will give it a go when I get back. thanks again!


----------



## Laxguy

nsolot said:


> My suggestion is to pull the drive from the HR20 and plus it into a PC (preferably an eSata port) and run WD diagnostics via the PC. I had an HR21 and the disk diagnostics ran fine there, but attached to a PC errors were detected.


You are talking about testing the external, I hope. Pulling the drive out of the HR20 could be a mistake.....


----------



## dhammon2

I have been using this setup about 3 weeks with no problems. 
Western Digital Caviar Green 2 TB SATA II 32 MB with Thermaltake BlacX eSATA USB Docking Station.


----------



## Rich

dhammon2 said:


> I have been using this setup about 3 weeks with no problems.
> Western Digital Caviar Green 2 TB SATA II 32 MB with Thermaltake BlacX eSATA USB Docking Station.


Please tell us the model of the HDD.

Rich


----------



## P Smith

Rich said:


> Please tell us the model of the HDD.
> 
> Rich


EXACTLY the model ID.


----------



## Rich

P Smith said:


> EXACTLY the model ID.


Yeah, like EADS or EURS or EVDS, etc.

Rich


----------



## dhammon2

Rich said:


> Please tell us the model of the HDD.
> 
> Rich


Sorry,

Western Digital Caviar Green 2 TB SATA II 32 MB Cache Bulk/OEM Internal Desktop Hard Drive - WD20EADS


----------



## Rich

dhammon2 said:


> Sorry,
> 
> Western Digital Caviar Green 2 TB SATA II 32 MB Cache Bulk/OEM Internal Desktop Hard Drive - WD20EADS


Good drive. Thanx.

Rich


----------



## P Smith

dhammon2 said:


> Sorry,
> 
> Western Digital Caviar Green 2 TB SATA II 32 MB Cache Bulk/OEM Internal Desktop Hard Drive - WD20EADS


Right choice.


----------



## skoolpsyk

P Smith said:


> Better to run MHDD from CD (make it bootable from ISO).
> Best diagnostics, best testing, clearly reading results, not that proprietary cryptic codes/messages from WDC or Seagate.


that is quite a program, and free too!

much to my surprise and delight, I did not show a single error. so it appears that I did not get a lemon after all and the intermittent studdering is from something else (and I didn't notice any at all on the last few hours of programming I've watched).

thanks all for the support!


----------



## P Smith

I would check temperatures of the HDD and CPU inside of the box when a cover is closed and the DVR placed to last spot.


----------



## skoolpsyk

P Smith said:


> I would check temperatures of the HDD and CPU inside the box when a cove is closed and the DVR placed to last spot.


you know, I've been wondering about temperatures and if that could be a factor. I've heard the fan at times sound like it was working overtime. I don't have it in a cabinet, but I do live in the desert and it can get quite hot in the house and especially so when we're gone an the place is closed up.

I raised it and will keep an eye on the temps and maybe get some kind of fan rigged up for it...


----------



## Rich

skoolpsyk said:


> you know, I've been wondering about temperatures and if that could be a factor. I've heard the fan at times sound like it was working overtime. I don't have it in a cabinet, but I do live in the desert and it can get quite hot in the house and especially so when we're gone an the place is closed up.
> 
> I raised it and will keep an eye on the temps and maybe get some kind of fan rigged up for it...


I've been thinking about your problem and the only time I've ever seen stuttering (that's the correct word for your issue) is when a DECA module went bad on one of my 20-700s. Replaced the DECA module with a new one and the stuttering went away. Do you have MRV?

Rich


----------



## dhammon2

Rich said:


> Good drive. Thanx.
> 
> Rich


I saw several recommendations for this drive and docking station here. So far I am very happy with the choice. Thanks to everyone for the input. This forum has been a wonderful source of information over the years.

I had a WD My Book 1 TB eSATA Ext. HD", it was filling up so I followed the procedure on this forum to copy the contents to the new 2 TB setup and it worked flawlessly. I have 60 % available now.:stickman:


----------



## skoolpsyk

Rich said:


> I've been thinking about your problem and the only time I've ever seen stuttering (that's the correct word for your issue) is when a DECA module went bad on one of my 20-700s. Replaced the DECA module with a new one and the stuttering went away. Do you have MRV?
> 
> Rich


no, I don't have MRV. I've had the stuttering issue before on another 20-100 and it got progressively worse to the point of failure. I always assumed it was the drive--and that's why I thought it was the drive again when I started seeing it after I hooked up the external drive to this unit...

seemed to continue to work fine again last night, so I'm going to go ahead and keep using this set up


----------



## Rich

skoolpsyk said:


> no, I don't have MRV. I've had the stuttering issue before on another 20-100 and it got progressively worse to the point of failure. I always assumed it was the drive--and that's why I thought it was the drive again when I started seeing it after I hooked up the external drive to this unit...
> 
> seemed to continue to work fine again last night, so I'm going to go ahead and keep using this set up


Huh. Perhaps this issue is confined to the 20-100s? I've had plenty of them, but never had one that worked. Stuttering is something I've never considered an HDD problem.

I'd replace that 20-100. I gather you only have the 20-100?

Rich


----------



## skoolpsyk

I also have a 24-700, but moved it outside into the "playroom" and moved the 21-100 into the house, that's why I added the extra storage. 

the reason for this change was that I have the dvr in my den with a hdmi splitter that feeds the living room and the bedroom. I have two rf remotes to control it from each room. it's my cheap-a** solution to a whole home dvr or two separate boxes. it actually works really well, BUT only with the 21-100. why? because that rear mounted rf antenna works much much better than the internal ones...

yeah, I'm crazy I know it!


----------



## Rich

skoolpsyk said:


> I also have a 24-700, but moved it outside into the "playroom" and moved the 21-100 into the house, that's why I added the extra storage.
> 
> the reason for this change was that I have the dvr in my den with a hdmi splitter that feeds the living room and the bedroom. I have two rf remotes to control it from each room. it's my cheap-a** solution to a whole home dvr or two separate boxes. it actually works really well, BUT only with the 21-100. why? because that rear mounted rf antenna works much much better than the internal ones...
> 
> yeah, I'm crazy I know it!


Never seen any good things posted about HDMI switches. That might be the problem. Especially if that switch doesn't have a power cord on it.

Rich


----------



## skoolpsyk

It's a powered matrix switch and splitter that I got from monoprice. I really don't think it's the problem, since every other hdmi unit I've used with it has worked great including my 24-700, PS-3, and my PC. So let me be the first to post a good thing about an hdmi switch! I've been very happy with it!

http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10110&cs_id=1011002&p_id=5312&seq=1&format=2


----------



## rsblaski

Rich said:


> Never seen any good things posted about HDMI switches. That might be the problem. Especially if that switch doesn't have a power cord on it.
> 
> Rich


Here's a good thing.
I've been using a Monoprice 5:1 switch for years and have had nothing but good results with it. My AVR only has two HDMI inputs so this switch has been a real asset and has saved me from having to upgrade my receiver.


----------



## Rich

skoolpsyk said:


> It's a powered matrix switch and splitter that I got from monoprice. I really don't think it's the problem, since every other hdmi unit I've used with it has worked great including my 24-700, PS-3, and my PC. So let me be the first to post a good thing about an hdmi switch! I've been very happy with it!
> 
> http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10110&cs_id=1011002&p_id=5312&seq=1&format=2


The HDMI switches work well with most devices, but the HRs have problems with them. I'd try disconnecting it and see if the stuttering stops. Something must be causing it.

Rich


----------



## RunnerFL

Switches? Hmmm, I thought this thread was about eSATA devices compatible with the HR line of DVRs. I must have taken a wrong turn at Albuquerque, or the thread did.


----------



## Rich

rsblaski said:


> Here's a good thing.
> I've been using a Monoprice 5:1 switch for years and have had nothing but good results with it. My AVR only has two HDMI inputs so this switch has been a real asset and has saved me from having to upgrade my receiver.


I gave up on them and just bought new AVRs.

Rich


----------



## Rich

RunnerFL said:


> Switches? Hmmm, I thought this thread was about eSATA devices compatible with the HR line of DVRs. I must have taken a wrong turn at Albuquerque, or the thread did.


Read that title again. If we go by that title, we'd be discussing nothing but the WD eSATA. If we were really nitpicking, D* doesn't "recommend" any external devices, it only "suggests".

Rich


----------



## RunnerFL

Rich said:


> Read that title again. If we go by that title, we'd be discussing nothing but the WD eSATA. If we were really nitpicking, D* doesn't "recommend" any external devices, it only "suggests".
> 
> Rich


I'm not sure what title you're reading but nowhere does it mention WD drives. The title is "eSATA - DIRECTV recommended list". And it definitely doesn't say anything about HDMI switches.


----------



## Rich

RunnerFL said:


> I'm not sure what title you're reading but nowhere does it mention WD drives. The title is "eSATA - DIRECTV recommended list". And it definitely doesn't say anything about HDMI switches.


I really don't want to argue. Originally, the WD device and a Seagate device were suggested by D*, as I'm sure you remember. I called Seagate immediately upon reading that and I think the Seagates got pulled from the suggestion. Seagate told me that they never authorized it or had any HDDs that were made specifically for DVRs at that time.

Yes, I know as well as you do that this isn't a thread about HDMI switches, but does it really hurt to help someone who's having a problem and asks for help?

Rich


----------



## dhempy

Good Day Forum Users:

I haven't read _EVERYTHING_ but have read enough I think ... I just ordered a WD 2TB drive (WD20EARX) and opted to go with the Thermaltake Max 4 Active Cooling Enclosure for my theater. I needed an enclosure I could lay down in the rack system and I just didn't think that the BlacX would be the right choice. Plus extra cooling never hurts. I will post on my success or lack thereof once the hardware shows up.

DTV just replaced an older DVR that failed with an HR24-200. I am going to call them and attempt to upgrade everything else replacing an _OLD_ TIVO (non HD) with another HR24 AND then get the whole house DVR.

Do I understand correctly that all external HDs are accessible from any device for playback? So with 2 HR24s and a whole house DVR ... I could potentially have 6tb online at once? And if I get BlacX for my other enclusures, i COULD swap out drives as long as they are connected to the same device?

Did I see some discussion on backing these things up? What is the latest thinking on the subject?

Also, anyone using longer eSATA cables (6 feet or more)? Issues / comments?

Regards:

Dan


----------



## skoolpsyk

RunnerFL said:


> I'm not sure what title you're reading but nowhere does it mention WD drives. The title is "eSATA - DIRECTV recommended list". And it definitely doesn't say anything about HDMI switches.


I apologize. They were helping troubleshoot what I believed to be my eSATA drive in the eSATA thread.

Rich, I really appreciate (and I'm sure others here do too) all the time you've spent helping us.

Things seem to be working well now (knock on wood) so I'll bow out for now. I don't want to cause any more complaints. Thanks again.


----------



## Rich

dhempy said:


> Good Day Forum Users:
> 
> I haven't read _EVERYTHING_ but have read enough I think ... I just ordered a WD 2TB drive (WD20EARX) and opted to go with the Thermaltake Max 4 Active Cooling Enclosure for my theater. I needed an enclosure I could lay down in the rack system and I just didn't think that the BlacX would be the right choice. Plus extra cooling never hurts. I will post on my success or lack thereof once the hardware shows up.


Haven't heard much about the TT enclosure, please be sure to tell us how you like it.



> DTV just replaced an older DVR that failed with an HR24-200. I am going to call them and attempt to upgrade everything else replacing an _OLD_ TIVO (non HD) with another HR24 AND then get the whole house DVR.


Good choices.



> Do I understand correctly that all external HDs are accessible from any device for playback? So with 2 HR24s and a whole house DVR ... I could potentially have 6tb online at once?


Yup, you're right. I've got over 20TBs of storage capacity on my MRV and it runs very well.



> And if I get BlacX for my other enclusures, i COULD swap out drives as long as they are connected to the same device?


Yup, but don't try to "hot swap" them. Pull the plug on both the HR and the docking station and then go thru the proper procedure to boot up again.



> Did I see some discussion on backing these things up? What is the latest thinking on the subject?


That's why I've got all that capacity. Simply put, altho the HRs are much more reliable and stable than they've ever been, I still have a fear of one failing and the loss of its recordings. Something I'll probably never get over. I back up everything I record several times and haven't missed a program in a long time.



> Also, anyone using longer eSATA cables (6 feet or more)? Issues / comments?


We haven't seen many posts about that. You shouldn't need one longer than 6 feet.

Rich


----------



## Rich

skoolpsyk said:


> I apologize. They were helping troubleshoot what I believed to be my eSATA drive in the eSATA thread.
> 
> Rich, I really appreciate (and I'm sure others here do too) all the time you've spent helping us.
> 
> Things seem to be working well now (knock on wood) so I'll bow out for now. I don't want to cause any more complaints. Thanks again.


No need to apologize, you did nothing wrong. Wasn't your fault the way the thread evolved.

Rich


----------



## Zon2020

dhempy said:


> Good Day Forum Users:
> 
> I haven't read _EVERYTHING_ but have read enough I think ... I just ordered a WD 2TB drive (WD20EARX) and opted to go with the Thermaltake Max 4 Active Cooling Enclosure for my theater. I needed an enclosure I could lay down in the rack system and I just didn't think that the BlacX would be the right choice. Plus extra cooling never hurts. I will post on my success or lack thereof once the hardware shows up.





Rich said:


> Haven't heard much about the TT enclosure, please be sure to tell us how you like it.


I've been using that Thermaltake Max 4 Active Cooling Enclosure with a Samsung EcoGreen 1TB hard drive hooked to an HR21 for just over three years. It actually failed shortly after I got it; Thermaltake immediately replaced it without a problem, and it has worked perfectly ever since. No compatibility issues.

By the way, for even longer I used a Rosewill RX-358 enclosure with a WD Green 1TB drive on an HR20 until it was replaced with a new HR34 last week. That combo also worked flawlessly.

In both instances I was looking for an enclosure with a built in fan, and three years ago the choice was even more limited than it is today. There's probably nothing better you can do to prolong the life of these disks than to cool them.

As an aside, has anyone with that Rosewill enclosure replaced the fan, and if so, can you tell me what fan you used? The one drawback to the Rosewill is that it's a little bit noisy.


----------



## unixguru

Rich said:


> Stuttering is something I've never considered an HDD problem.


I sometimes see stuttering. I suspect it's caused by recoverable drive errors. When a drive gets an I/O error the I/O will be retried some number of times. Probably both in the drive firmware and in the O/S. (The drive should also be able to map out bad sectors and remap the I/O to reserved sectors.)

My CalDigit VR has a software setting for "Turbo" mode which they claim is for video editing, etc. I suspect this limits recovery attempts/time. Given that I'm in the summer programming lull I should take this opportunity to turn Turbo on...

BTW, this limiting of firmware recovery attempts/time is one, if the not the only, key differentiator between drives intended for DVRs and others.

Of course stuttering caused by this would all be mute if they put in more RAM for buffering...


----------



## P Smith

Then SMART table would register the remappings; it wouldn't left unnoticed there.

Seems to me it's different reason for the stuttering - perhaps interrupting CPU with other prioritive tasks for extended amount of time.


----------



## dhempy

Thanks for the replies Rich and Zon2020.

I am awaiting the arrival of the enclosure and HD ... will post up about my experience.

FYI, the reason I might need 6' cables has to do with the full Middle Atlantic rack and the lack of space in my cabinets ... there is room in the cabinet next door but I need a cable long enough to reach. The rack is pull out as well which adds to the need for length.

Rich: I'm confused though on how you have backups (and impressed that you have 20TB!). So do you record the same shows on multiple devices as backup or something else? Now that I think about it, it seems to me that backing up on different drives from the same DVR wouldn't help because once the DVR goes south, you lose everything ... so you'd have to backup across multiple devices. This was originally what I was thinking ... just backing up the drive itself (until I read your note, I hadn't considered losing a device ... something else to worry about!).

Dan

Dan


----------



## Rich

dhempy said:


> Thanks for the replies Rich and Zon2020.
> 
> I am awaiting the arrival of the enclosure and HD ... will post up about my experience.
> 
> FYI, the reason I might need 6' cables has to do with the full Middle Atlantic rack and the lack of space in my cabinets ... there is room in the cabinet next door but I need a cable long enough to reach. The rack is pull out as well which adds to the need for length.


You're welcome. I don't think we've ever had anyone use more than a six foot eSATA to eSATA jumper cable and even that's pretty rare. Try monoprice.com and see what they have. If they have longer cables or couplings for the jumper cables, buy one and try it, I'd be interested to know how it works. If I had to guess, I'd say a twelve foot jumper cable would work, but until someone actually tries one I can't say for sure.



> Rich: I'm confused though on how you have backups (and impressed that you have 20TB!).


There's a story behind the number of HRs needed to maintain that capacity that illustrates how luck and I get along....:lol:



> So do you record the same shows on multiple devices as backup or something else?


Actually, there's not enough content on D* that we are interested in to fully use each HR as a single platform. We back up each show we really want to see several times. I have over 100 episodes of *Person of Interest* on my MRV right now and I've never seen the show. Probably at least five copies of each episode. Takes the odds of missing a show because of failure of equipment down to about 0. Then, during baseball season, I record two showings of each Yankees game on an HR on different clouds. All six hour recordings.



> Now that I think about it, it seems to me that backing up on different drives from the same DVR wouldn't help because once the DVR goes south, you lose everything ... so you'd have to backup across multiple devices. This was originally what I was thinking ... just backing up the drive itself (until I read your note, I hadn't considered losing a device ... something else to worry about!).


Not really that much to worry about these days. It's been a long time since I had an HR or an HDD fail. But the 34 is another story. I will get one eventually, when I think most of the bugs are cleared up. You're right about the possibility of the 34 failing and losing all your recordings, I don't think I'd use the 34 any differently than I do my other 12 HRs, I do know I'd put a 2TB external on it immediately, 1TB is just too small and would be quickly filled up the way I use HRs.

Rich


----------



## Rich

unixguru said:


> I sometimes see stuttering. I suspect it's caused by recoverable drive errors. When a drive gets an I/O error the I/O will be retried some number of times. Probably both in the drive firmware and in the O/S. (The drive should also be able to map out bad sectors and remap the I/O to reserved sectors.)
> 
> My CalDigit VR has a software setting for "Turbo" mode which they claim is for video editing, etc. I suspect this limits recovery attempts/time. Given that I'm in the summer programming lull I should take this opportunity to turn Turbo on...
> 
> BTW, this limiting of firmware recovery attempts/time is one, if the not the only, key differentiator between drives intended for DVRs and others.
> 
> Of course stuttering caused by this would all be mute if they put in more RAM for buffering...


I don't think this is a common occurrence with the HRs and their HDDs. I've only seen it once and it was because of a bad DECA module, changed the module and I've never seen it again.

Rich


----------



## Zon2020

dhempy said:


> Also, anyone using longer eSATA cables (6 feet or more)? Issues / comments?





Rich said:


> I don't think we've ever had anyone use more than a six foot eSATA to eSATA jumper cable and even that's pretty rare. Try monoprice.com and see what they have. If they have longer cables or couplings for the jumper cables, buy one and try it, I'd be interested to know how it works. If I had to guess, I'd say a twelve foot jumper cable would work, but until someone actually tries one I can't say for sure.


I believe the maximum cable length in the eSATA specification is 2 meters (6.6 ft). You might find a longer cable somewhere, but whether it would work reliably is a different question.


----------



## Rich

Zon2020 said:


> I believe the maximum cable length in the eSATA specification is 2 meters (6.6 ft). You might find a longer cable somewhere, but whether it would work reliably is a different question.


Huh. Didn't know there was a limitation. Know now, thanx.

Rich


----------



## P Smith

It could be longer if cable's manufacturer will stay with signal's parameters by eSATA specs: voltage, noise, ripples, phase delay, etc.
The length is posed because of typical design. If someone will go with better solution, then there is no such limit.


----------



## Rich

P Smith said:


> It could be longer if cable's manufacturer will stay with signal's parameters by eSATA specs: voltage, noise, ripples, phase delay, etc.
> The length is posed because of typical design. If someone will go with better solution, then there is no such limit.


Gotcha. Thanx.

Rich


----------



## harsh

P Smith said:


> If someone will go with better solution, then there is no such limit.


Buffered cables and engineering theory don't much enter in as they have no place in the real world of the typical installation.

As always, it is practice that matters, not something buried in a textbook.


----------



## P Smith

Hope you know a difference between specs/textbook and verification/certification/sustaining manufacturing/etc. 

There is many ways to improve the SATA cable to reach farther points.


----------



## harsh

P Smith said:


> There is many ways to improve the SATA cable to reach farther points.


The neat part about your approach is that it doesn't take economics or practicality into consideration.


----------



## P Smith

harsh said:


> The neat part about your approach is that it doesn't take economics or practicality into consideration.


It will come with the cable - you shouldn't worry, it's a matter of finance dept the manufacturer.
I'm surprised of your unawareness of such things as cables. Take a look for Monster cables or other mfgs who claim pure copper wires, etc


----------



## harsh

P Smith said:


> It will come with the cable - you shouldn't worry, it's a matter of finance dept the manufacturer.


Manufacturers typically pass costs on assuming that they decide that it is worth the effort. As it is, a Google search for 12' eSATA cables gets no meaningful results.

Is it possible? Probably. Has anyone mass produced one? Probably not. Net contribution of your insight to someone seeking such a solution? Frustration.


----------



## P Smith

Frustration ? It should be addressed to pessimistic posts here. 
Search and you shall find ...


----------



## dhempy

Good day again gents:

My HD arrived today (the enclosure last week). I will probably get a chance tomorrow to attempt the install. IIRC, power up the drive first, then the HR ... watch for the notice that the drive is being initiated. 

Will use the supplied 3' cable. It looks like I can lay the enclosure down so I may not have to get a longer cable.

Has anyone tried doing a straight disk to disk byte for byte copy to see if that works as a disk backup?

Dan


----------



## harsh

P Smith said:


> Search and you shall find ...


I did search and did NOT find. I'm left with much doubt that such a thing exists (ignoring that it doesn't seem economically feasible).


----------



## harsh

dhempy said:


> Has anyone tried doing a straight disk to disk byte for byte copy to see if that works as a disk backup?


I'm pretty sure it has been done but in terms of a secure backup, it is only a secure as the certainty that something else about the DVR that recorded it doesn't fail.


----------



## CCarncross

dhempy said:


> Has anyone tried doing a straight disk to disk byte for byte copy to see if that works as a disk backup?
> 
> Dan


The Gparted method of disk copying is a bit for bit copy, works great if you want to try to use it for a backup method...There is a great step by step tutorial in the tips and resources forum.


----------



## dhempy

No joy on boot .. actually the HR went into some weird moving boxes / impossible to do anything mode ... and it wasn't setting the resolution correctly. I did a hard reset and got it back going but I'm not real happy at the moment. I run this through a Denon AVR3808CI and into a JVC DLA-RS2 projector. Anyway, maybe I missed it but I never saw the initialization message. Can someone enlighten me as to when it should appear?

From Memory here is what I did / saw

1) Unplugged the HR24 (removed power cord in back)
2) Connected the esata and powered up the drive
3) Turned on the Receiver and Projector, then the HR-24
4) "Almost There .. just a few more seconds:
5) "Just a Few More Seconds"
6) "Running Rx Self Check"
7) D* Logo .. Step 1 of 2. Check Satellite Settings, Few Minutes"
8) Then the resolution went wacky and the pictures is boxes jumping everywhere

The last time I rebooted, I could see a software download happening so I'm gonna try to let that complete. Is that the magic notice that something good is happening?

I need to call D* support and get this jumping boxes thing figured out!

Thanks.

Dan



dhempy said:


> Good day again gents:
> 
> My HD arrived today (the enclosure last week). I will probably get a chance tomorrow to attempt the install. IIRC, power up the drive first, then the HR ... watch for the notice that the drive is being initiated.
> 
> Will use the supplied 3' cable. It looks like I can lay the enclosure down so I may not have to get a longer cable.
> 
> Has anyone tried doing a straight disk to disk byte for byte copy to see if that works as a disk backup?
> 
> Dan


----------



## dhempy

Thanks CCarnCross .. will have a look for it.

Dan


----------



## dhempy

IT would appear that my unit has been hit with the firmware bug that has disrupted the HDMI handshake between AVRs and HR units. After a bit of research, I seem to have a workaround until it is fixed.

Meanwhile a couple of strange things have happened:
1) I am now "enabled" for sharing ... even though I do not have a whole house DVR nor have I called anyone. I was prompted to name my HR-24 and there was an indication that this was for sharing.
2) The device did download some new firmware.
3) The "disk activity" light on the enclosure has been very active. 
4) I did set up a recording (season pass). I assume if I disconnect the external drive, then I shouldn't be able to see it. If it is still there, that was sent to the internal drive.

I went through the settings menu but I didn't see anything that would tell me storage capacity or that an external drive was connected. Any guidance would be appreciated.

Thanks. Dan


----------



## detroit_fan

I have a few questions about these external drives that I was hoping you guys could help me with. 

I see that the original post is a few years old, are the Western Digital 500GB (model WDG1S5000), Seagate 500GB (model ST30500SCA109-RK), Western Digital 1TB (model WDG1S10000) still the current recommended models? If not, can you tell me what models are suggested now for my HR21-700.

Amazon has a Western Digital My Book AV DVR Expander 1 TB, is that just an external drive with a case? Are those any good or do you recommend something different? I would really like something reliable. 

Sorry if these are stupid questions, I have never used and external drive before and want to make sure I buy the correct one. Thanks


----------



## P Smith

> I see that the original post is a few years old


 That's correct because of nature of the matter.

But if you will start reading backwards you'll find recent models of drives what our members did try to use as external drive for many different models of DTV DVR.


----------



## Rich

detroit_Fan said:


> I have a few questions about these external drives that I was hoping you guys could help me with.
> 
> I see that the original post is a few years old, are the Western Digital 500GB (model WDG1S5000), Seagate 500GB (model ST30500SCA109-RK), Western Digital 1TB (model WDG1S10000) still the current recommended models? If not, can you tell me what models are suggested now for my HR21-700.
> 
> Amazon has a Western Digital My Book AV DVR Expander 1 TB, is that just an external drive with a case? Are those any good or do you recommend something different? I would really like something reliable.
> 
> Sorry if these are stupid questions, I have never used and external drive before and want to make sure I buy the correct one. Thanks


You'll be better off with a 2TB HDD for many reasons. We recommend the WD line of Green Caviar HDDs. So far, they all seem to work with every model of HR. I would also suggest putting the HDD in a Thermaltake docking station. Just go to Amazon and put in "Thermaltake docking station" in the search box and you'll see what I'm talking about. Can't send you a link, sorry. Costs $32 today and you don't need tools to install it. I have several and I've never had a problem with any of them except for the on/off switch. I know they look odd, but they really work well. Dust and heat are not to be worried about with these docking stations.

More questions? Feel free to ask.

Rich


----------



## Rich

dhempy said:


> IT would appear that my unit has been hit with the firmware bug that has disrupted the HDMI handshake between AVRs and HR units. After a bit of research, I seem to have a workaround until it is fixed.
> 
> Meanwhile a couple of strange things have happened:
> 1) I am now "enabled" for sharing ... even though I do not have a whole house DVR nor have I called anyone. I was prompted to name my HR-24 and there was an indication that this was for sharing.
> 2) The device did download some new firmware.
> 3) The "disk activity" light on the enclosure has been very active.
> 4) I did set up a recording (season pass). I assume if I disconnect the external drive, then I shouldn't be able to see it. If it is still there, that was sent to the internal drive.
> 
> I went through the settings menu but I didn't see anything that would tell me storage capacity or that an external drive was connected. Any guidance would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks. Dan


Here's the procedure I use to hook up an external HDD: Unplug the HR, don't plug in the external device. Put the eSATA to eSATA jumper cable into the ports in the HR and the eSATA device. Plug in the external device and let it spin up, takes a few seconds, and then plug in the HR. No need to turn off the projector or AV receiver, just leave them on so you can see what's happening.

That works every time for me. If you have to download software, just let the software download and follow any instructions you see on the screen.

More questions? Feel free to ask.

Rich


----------



## Rich

> I need to call D* support and get this jumping boxes thing figured out!


D* does NOT support the eSATA function. Calling them for help is futile. We'll be glad to help with eSATA questions.

Rich


----------



## detroit_fan

Rich said:


> You'll be better off with a 2TB HDD for many reasons. We recommend the WD line of Green Caviar HDDs. So far, they all seem to work with every model of HR. I would also suggest putting the HDD in a Thermaltake docking station. Just go to Amazon and put in "Thermaltake docking station" in the search box and you'll see what I'm talking about. Can't send you a link, sorry. Costs $32 today and you don't need tools to install it. I have several and I've never had a problem with any of them except for the on/off switch. I know they look odd, but they really work well. Dust and heat are not to be worried about with these docking stations.
> 
> More questions? Feel free to ask.
> 
> Rich


Thank you very much Rich! I have been trying to read as much as I can but I have two kids under 2 and as you can imagine that doesn't leave me too much free time.

So you would recommend the Thermaltake BlacX (ST0005U) over the Thermaltake Max 5 (ST0021U)?

And other than the enclosure all I need is a Western Digital Hard Drive? Looks like the WD20EURS is best for dvr's, correct?

In reading through some of this thread I have seen some mention of purchasing a better esata cable, any recommendation on which one?

Once again, thanks for the help, it's much appreciated.


----------



## caseyf5

detroit_Fan said:


> Thank you very much Rich! I have been trying to read as much as I can but I have two kids under 2 and as you can imagine that doesn't leave me too much free time.
> 
> So you would recommend the Thermaltake BlacX (ST0005U) over the Thermaltake Max 5 (ST0021U)?
> 
> And other than the enclosure all I need is a Western Digital Caviar Green 2 TB Desktop Hard Drive (WD20EARX)?
> 
> In reading through some of this thread I have seen some mention of purchasing a better esata cable, any recommendation on which one?
> 
> Once again, thanks for the help, it's much appreciated.


Hello detroit_Fan,

I have a 1 Thermaltake BlacX docking station an a pc case. An alternate suggestion. I have purchased multiple Antec MX-1 hard drive enclosures and other Antec products and have only good things to say about both companies products including the eSATA cables. I feel that you can not make a bad choice among these companies product lines.


----------



## detroit_fan

caseyf5 said:


> Hello detroit_Fan,
> 
> I have a 1 Thermaltake BlacX docking station an a pc case. An alternate suggestion. I have purchased multiple Antec MX-1 hard drive enclosures and other Antec products and have only good things to say about both companies products including the eSATA cables. I feel that you can not make a bad choice among these companies product lines.


Great, thanks for the advice


----------



## Rich

detroit_Fan said:


> Thank you very much Rich! I have been trying to read as much as I can but I have two kids under 2 and as you can imagine that doesn't leave me too much free time.
> 
> So you would recommend the Thermaltake BlacX (ST0005U) over the Thermaltake Max 5 (ST0021U)?


I'd recommend the BlackX docking station. The TT enclosures work too, as do the Antec MX-1s if you're not sure about the docking stations. Enclosures have benefits as do the docking stations, but enclosures tend to be noisy and the Antec MX-1s tend to be dust collectors. But they work. The docking stations are easier to install, no tools needed, and they're cheaper.



> And other than the enclosure all I need is a Western Digital Hard Drive? Looks like the WD20EURS is best for dvr's, correct?


I've got EADS, EAVS and EARS WD HDDs and they all work well. The EURS is made for DVRs but they all work well.



> In reading through some of this thread I have seen some mention of purchasing a better esata cable, any recommendation on which one?


The Thermaltake docking stations and enclosures come with their own eSATA to eSATA jumper cables and so do the Antecs. I've never had a problem with a jumper cable. I'd just use the cable that comes with the docking stations or enclosures.

Rich


----------



## detroit_fan

Rich said:


> I'd recommend the BlackX docking station. The TT enclosures work too, as do the Antec MX-1s if you're not sure about the docking stations. Enclosures have benefits as do the docking stations, but enclosures tend to be noisy and the Antec MX-1s tend to be dust collectors. But they work. The docking stations are easier to install, no tools needed, and they're cheaper.
> 
> I've got EADS, EAVS and EARS WD HDDs and they all work well. The EURS is made for DVRs but they all work well.
> 
> The Thermaltake docking stations and enclosures come with their own eSATA to eSATA jumper cables and so do the Antecs. I've never had a problem with a jumper cable. I'd just use the cable that comes with the docking stations or enclosures.
> 
> Rich


Once again, thank you very much!

One last question(probably a stupid one), if the docking station fails and i need to replace it, do my recordings on the HD still stay intact or do I lose those if I have to swap docking stations?


----------



## P Smith

detroit_Fan said:


> Once again, thank you very much!
> 
> One last question(probably a stupid one), if the docking station fails and i need to replace it, do my recordings on the HD still stay intact or do I lose those if I have to swap docking stations?


No worry, data is on the drive and the device has no influence to the data.


----------



## detroit_fan

P Smith said:


> No worry, data is on the drive and the device has no influence to the data.


great, thanks!


----------



## Rich

detroit_Fan said:


> Once again, thank you very much!
> 
> One last question(probably a stupid one), if the docking station fails and i need to replace it, do my recordings on the HD still stay intact or do I lose those if I have to swap docking stations?


When you put an external HDD on an HR, it becomes "married" to that HR, so if the docking station fails the HDD will still work on the HR that it's "married" to. I wouldn't worry too much about a docking station failing. The only problems I've ever had were with the on/off switch on the back of the dock. One failed in the "on" position and the other failed in the "off" position and was unusable. I took it apart and attempted to jump out the on/off switch with no success. Now, I never use the on/off switch, that seems to have stopped the problems.

Thermaltake is really good about exchanging bad devices.

Rich


----------



## detroit_fan

Rich said:


> When you put an external HDD on an HR, it becomes "married" to that HR, so if the docking station fails the HDD will still work on the HR that it's "married" to. I wouldn't worry too much about a docking station failing. The only problems I've ever had were with the on/off switch on the back of the dock. One failed in the "on" position and the other failed in the "off" position and was unusable. I took it apart and attempted to jump out the on/off switch with no success. Now, I never use the on/off switch, that seems to have stopped the problems.
> 
> Thermaltake is really good about exchanging bad devices.
> 
> Rich


Sounds good, I'll go with the BlackX and a WD green drive. You guys have been a great help, I really appreciate it!


----------



## Rich

detroit_fan said:


> Sounds good, I'll go with the BlackX and a WD green drive. You guys have been a great help, I really appreciate it!


If you have problems hooking up your new HDD and device, don't hesitate to ask for help. Someone's always around that will help you.

Rich


----------



## Jason Whiddon

Jason Whiddon said:


> Im using the 2TB WD Green EARX drive with a ThermalTake BlacX dock on the HR34, and its working well.


Mine is still alive and kicking from 1/14/12.


----------



## Jason Whiddon

Question.

Now that drive prices are down again and easily found, I was wondering if I took my current 2TB green drive, plugged it in a raid box with an mty drive, would it clone the Directv drive, and then I could reattach to the HR34, now running in a raid setup?

Or would I have to start from scratch with both drives?


----------



## P Smith

It should works that way.


----------



## Jason Whiddon

Ive been reading, and some the data on the drive would be lost and you have to back it up, then reload it once the two drives are mirrored. And I know nothing about what is right LOL.

It'll take me a LONG time, maybe never before I can clean my drive up to start two drives fresh in RAID LOL


----------



## P Smith

If have doubts (if it HW RAID then I wouldn't), make a backup to another 2 TB drive.


----------



## Jason Whiddon

So I could clone the existing 2TB, install two drives in a RAID 1 setup, then move the cloned data back to the RAID?


----------



## RunnerFL

Jason Whiddon said:


> Question.
> 
> Now that drive prices are down again and easily found, I was wondering if I took my current 2TB green drive, plugged it in a raid box with an mty drive, would it clone the Directv drive, and then I could reattach to the HR34, now running in a raid setup?
> 
> Or would I have to start from scratch with both drives?


It all depends on what RAID enclosure you get. Some may require you to establish the array with 2 blank drives first.


----------



## RunnerFL

Jason Whiddon said:


> So I could clone the existing 2TB, install two drives in a RAID 1 setup, then move the cloned data back to the RAID?


Yes, that's what I did on my HR34.


----------



## Jason Whiddon

RunnerFL said:


> Yes, that's what I did on my HR34.


I was looking at the cloning instructions in the long thread about changing a drive out for a bigger one, when you have content. My problem is I only have laptops at home, so no "esata" connections for the bare drives. Unless I could do it with a dock and USB.


----------



## RunnerFL

Jason Whiddon said:


> I was looking at the cloning instructions in the long thread about changing a drive out for a bigger one, when you have content. My problem is I only have laptops at home, so no "esata" connections for the bare drives. Unless I could do it with a dock and USB.


You can do it with a USB dock, it will just take longer.


----------



## Jason Whiddon

Ok, cool. What I was thinking is, get two 2TB AVGP drives and a RAID 1 enclosure setup. Shut down the HR34 on a Fri night (I dont record anything on Saturdays) so Id have almost 48 hours to do the whole thing. While its shut down, unhook my current dock and drive, hook up the RAID 1 and let it format, then shut everything back down. 

I then have the current dock and drive, as well as the RAID setup, and could begin the transfer process. Meanwhile, I could fire the 34 back up on the internal drive until Sun night. Hopefully I could get everything moved in that time frame.


----------



## RunnerFL

Jason Whiddon said:


> Ok, cool. What I was thinking is, get two 2TB AVGP drives and a RAID 1 enclosure setup. Shut down the HR34 on a Fri night (I dont record anything on Saturdays) so Id have almost 48 hours to do the whole thing. While its shut down, unhook my current dock and drive, hook up the RAID 1 and let it format, then shut everything back down.
> 
> I then have the current dock and drive, as well as the RAID setup, and could begin the transfer process. Meanwhile, I could fire the 34 back up on the internal drive until Sun night. Hopefully I could get everything moved in that time frame.


Sounds about right. When I did it with my HR34 it only took about 10 hours using a spare computer and SATA connections on the motherboard. Having 48 hours definitely gives you plenty of time, even if you have an issue and need to start over.


----------



## Jason Whiddon

Cool. Now I just need to find a good RAID enclosure


----------



## P Smith

I found using not that new PC (Pentium D 2.4 GHz) and Gparted, I can make a copy of whole 2 TB drive in 6 hrs if set in_buffer to 200 MB and out_buffer to 100 MB. Didn't find how to make the copy process asynchronous - that would speed up more ...


----------



## Jason Whiddon

Not bad. My laptop is new and beefy, but Ill be stuck with USB.


----------



## P Smith

Only SATA ! USB is not an option. Too slow! Get SATA PCMCIA card then.


----------



## RunnerFL

Jason Whiddon said:


> Cool. Now I just need to find a good RAID enclosure


This is the one I've got on my HR34 and an HR21.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001LF40WM/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00


----------



## Jason Whiddon

P Smith said:


> Only SATA ! USB is not an option. Too slow! Get SATA PCMCIA card then.


Just looked at my laptop, missed the fact I actually have ONE esata connection on it, but then two USB 2.0 connections.



RunnerFL said:


> This is the one I've got on my HR34 and an HR21.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001LF40WM/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00


Thanks.


----------



## P Smith

Jason Whiddon said:


> Just looked at my laptop, missed the fact I actually have ONE esata connection on it, but then two USB 2.0 connections.


The you are facing whole day waiting for one copy ...


----------



## Jason Whiddon

Like I said, I'll have almost 48 hours allotted to it, so its not a huge deal.

My drive must have roughly 400 mb's used right now on the drive, so thats what Id have to transfer.


----------



## P Smith

Waiting for your numbers ...


----------



## Jason Whiddon

I gotta decide if Im gonna try the swap, or just wait to I clean up next (usually end of summer), and then install raid. I may just wait.

In my looking, I found another cool thermaltake dock.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004G8QETS/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i01

[Large photo removed]


----------



## P Smith

Please reload the picture after resizing it to 50%. Or use URL to small size of it at Amazon...
Like this http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41tnD+b1R-L._SL500_AA300_.jpg


----------



## Jason Whiddon

The picture was linked from Amazon. Fits fine on my screen .


----------



## Rich

P Smith said:


> Please reload the picture after resizing it to 50%. Or use URL to small size of it at Amazon...
> Like this


An enclosure, not a dock.

Rich


----------



## P Smith

Jason Whiddon said:


> The picture was linked from Amazon. Fits fine on *my screen* .


I gave you right one - for all viewers.
Definitely not on notebook's screens ...


----------



## Rich

P Smith said:


> I gave you right one - for all viewers.
> Definitely not on notebook's screens ...


Huge on my screen too, Pete.

Rich


----------



## CCarncross

Jason Whiddon said:


> The picture was linked from Amazon. Fits fine on my screen .


It may fit on some people's screen, but posting images that large is frowned upon on most forums. It is a courtesy to others to make the images a more manageable size. Don't forget there are many that read forums on their smartphones, etc...


----------



## Jason Whiddon

Oh geez, Ill just delete the damned thing. As if there isnt more out there to whine about.

Oh, never mind, I just noticed the gestapo removed it...

Mod note: How about pming me next when you delete something of mine.


----------



## P Smith

Jason Whiddon said:


> Oh geez, Ill just delete the damned thing. As if there isnt more out there to whine about.
> 
> Oh, never mind, I just noticed the gestapo removed it...
> 
> Mod note: How about pming me next when you delete something of mine.


So much nerving in just three short phrases. Are you a blonde ?


----------



## Jason Whiddon

You dont even want me start in on you. You annoy just about everyone you come in contact with.

No biggie, I'll just curtail my posting here for awhile,.


----------



## UhClem

Zon2020 said:


> I believe the maximum cable length in the eSATA specification is 2 meters (6.6 ft). You might find a longer cable somewhere, but whether it would work reliably is a different question.


Your statement is correct, but can not be applied here.

This is the problem: just because your device has an eSATA *connector* it does not mean that it has a real _bona fide_ eSATA *port*. In fact, on consumer devices (including desktop motherboards and add-in cards) I doubt that any have a real eSATA port. (They are just SATA ports with an eSATA connector.)

While the command specs are the same for SATA & eSATA, the power and signaling spec for eSATA exceed (but are compatible with) that of SATA. The cable length spec for SATA is a maximum of 1 meter, and should not be treated lightly.


----------



## MarkEHansen

I have an HR23-700 with an external 1.5TB eSATA drive (eSATA and enclosure purchased as a unit from Weaknees). It seems the external drive is going out, so I decided to purchase a new set. Based on much research in this thread (some time ago) I decided on the Antec MX-1 and a WD20EARS drive.

However, I can't get the drive to be recognized by the HR23-700. It doesn't sound like the drive ever spins up (all I hear from the enclosure is the cooling fan).

I've tried rebooting the HR multiple times, but each time it comes up using the original internal drive.

I tried jumpering pins 5&6 on the external drive to force it to use the slower 1.5gb/s transfer rate, but that didn't help.

It it possible that this drive came pre-formatted, so the HR is ignoring it (and not formatting it itself)?

Is there some special thing I need to do to the drive before it can be used as an external eSATA by the HR?

Otherwise, if the EARS version of the drive just can't be used, do I need to go purchase a different drive? Which one?

Please help.


----------



## detroit_fan

Rich said:


> If you have problems hooking up your new HDD and device, don't hesitate to ask for help. Someone's always around that will help you.
> 
> Rich


Just finished hooking up the new HD and blackX, so far everything is working great. I paired it with a HR21-700. The only thing I didn't expect was that all my season passes were deleted. luckily i wrote them down just in case that happened.


----------



## texasmoose

It's been a while since I paired a eSATA drive to 1 of my DVRs. Do you still only see the external drive once it's connected? or can you view and play shows from the internal drive too? The latter is the case for my Fios 7232 hd dvr, which is a nice +. 

It seems to me I had hooked up one a few years ago with my HR20 & all I could see was the ext. drive.


----------



## RunnerFL

texasmoose said:


> It's been a while since I paired a eSATA drive to 1 of my DVRs. Do you still only see the external drive once it's connected? or can you view and play shows from the internal drive too? The latter is the case for my Fios 7232 hd dvr, which is a nice +.
> 
> It seems to me I had hooked up one a few years ago with my HR20 & all I could see was the ext. drive.


Still only one drive or the other.


----------



## MarkEHansen

With regard to my WE20EARS drive, I talked to Western Digital support, and they said it sounds like the drive is bad. It's making some non-normal sounds and then just powers down.

I'll see about getting a replacement.

Thanks,


----------



## Rich

MarkEHansen said:


> With regard to my WE20EARS drive, I talked to Western Digital support, and they said it sounds like the drive is bad. It's making some non-normal sounds and then just powers down.
> 
> I'll see about getting a replacement.
> 
> Thanks,


If you buy a lot of HDDs, you'll occasionally get one that's not gonna work correctly. I've only had to return one and that was because of noise, it worked, but was far too noisy. And that was an EVDS, made especially for DVRs, if I recall correctly.

Don't be afraid of the EARS HDDs, I have several and they run quite well.

Rich


----------



## Rich

detroit_fan said:


> Just finished hooking up the new HD and blackX, so far everything is working great. I paired it with a HR21-700. The only thing I didn't expect was that all my season passes were deleted. luckily i wrote them down just in case that happened.


Glad to see it worked for you.

Rich


----------



## Rich

texasmoose said:


> It's been a while since I paired a eSATA drive to 1 of my DVRs. Do you still only see the external drive once it's connected? or can you view and play shows from the internal drive too? The latter is the case for my Fios 7232 hd dvr, which is a nice +.
> 
> It seems to me I had hooked up one a few years ago with my HR20 & all I could see was the ext. drive.


To add to what *RunnerFL *said, I think we're better off with the external drives standing by themselves. Since D* doesn't "support" the eSATA function, they don't mess around with it much and that leaves us with the freedom to use any HDD we choose. That's a freedom I don't want to lose.

Rich


----------



## RunnerFL

Rich said:


> To add to what *RunnerFL *said, I think we're better off with the external drives standing by themselves. Since D* doesn't "support" the eSATA function, they don't mess around with it much and that leaves us with the freedom to use any HDD we choose. That's a freedom I don't want to lose.


Agreed

I'd hate for them to suddenly put out firmware that allows usage of both that would have to format my externals to allow this new "feature" to work.


----------



## Rich

RunnerFL said:


> Agreed
> 
> I'd hate for them to suddenly put out firmware that allows usage of both that would have to format my externals to allow this new "feature" to work.


Yup, we don't need that. Just the thought of it makes me shudder.

Rich


----------



## Volman

Zon2020 said:


> I've been using that Thermaltake Max 4 Active Cooling Enclosure with a Samsung EcoGreen 1TB hard drive hooked to an HR21 for just over three years. It actually failed shortly after I got it; Thermaltake immediately replaced it without a problem, and it has worked perfectly ever since. No compatibility issues.
> 
> By the way, for even longer I used a Rosewill RX-358 enclosure with a WD Green 1TB drive on an HR20 until it was replaced with a new HR34 last week. That combo also worked flawlessly.
> 
> In both instances I was looking for an enclosure with a built in fan, and three years ago the choice was even more limited than it is today. There's probably nothing better you can do to prolong the life of these disks than to cool them.
> 
> As an aside, has anyone with that Rosewill enclosure replaced the fan, and if so, can you tell me what fan you used? The one drawback to the Rosewill is that it's a little bit noisy.


Rosewill sent me a free replacement fan. However, I'm currently using a computer fan (120mm) that simply sits on top of the RX 358 and is powered by a wall wart AC converter. Pulls more air and is quieter than the OEM fan.

Fred


----------



## Drew2k

RunnerFL said:


> Agreed
> 
> I'd hate for them to suddenly put out firmware that allows usage of both that would have to format my externals to allow this new "feature" to work.


A lot of people would hate that, but isn't it just speculation that a new storage scheme would require reformatting the drives to allow both the internal and external to work in conjunction?

We don't know how they're going to do it, or when, but how great would it be if they put out firmware that allows usage of both drives that does not require a reformat of either drive? If you've been using an external drive, the worst that would happen is you'd see any programs recorded on the internal drive. That would be the best scenario...

I'm convinced that use of eSATA drives one day will become a supported feature, so I just hope DIRECTV doesn't go a proprietary route and require we buy a drive and enclosure from THEM.


----------



## RunnerFL

Drew2k said:


> A lot of people would hate that, but isn't it just speculation that a new storage scheme would require reformatting the drives to allow both the internal and external to work in conjunction?


A new "storage scheme" would require re-partitioning and re-partitioning requires formatting. Using 2 drives together to create one storage area would require either JBOD or RAID0. Both require an array and creating an array would require new partitions. Doing it any other way would be very unstable and most certainly unacceptable.

Using one as backup to another would be different and wouldn't be called a "storage scheme", it would be a backup scheme.


----------



## Drew2k

RunnerFL said:


> Doing it any other way would be very unstable and most certainly unacceptable.


Could it work where the drives are independent units and the DVR records to one drive until it doesn't have enough space, then switches to the other, but for display purposes it reads from both drives and combines free space to present a unified list? The DVR would keep track of the upcoming recordings and pick a drive as needed, in other words, but to the user it would seem as a "single" drive when viewing the playlist.

Just exploring options where the DVR would not have to partition each drive to build the array you mentioned...


----------



## texasmoose

Drew2k said:


> Could it work where the drives are independent units and the DVR records to one drive until it doesn't have enough space, then switches to the other, but for display purposes it reads from both drives and combines free space to present a unified list? The DVR would keep track of the upcoming recordings and pick a drive as needed, in other words, but to the user it would seem as a "single" drive when viewing the playlist.
> 
> Just exploring options where the DVR would not have to partition each drive to build the array you mentioned...


This is my understanding of how the Fios dvr does it. It's recording on my eSATA WD dvr expander, and once full, it'll start recording back to the internal drive.

With my QIP-7232 dvr I can view a show off of either drive, whereas before when I had my eSATA hooked up to my HR20 I couldn't view any shows off the internal drive until I disconnected the ext drive, which is a bit of a bummer.


----------



## RunnerFL

Drew2k said:


> Could it work where the drives are independent units and the DVR records to one drive until it doesn't have enough space, then switches to the other, but for display purposes it reads from both drives and combines free space to present a unified list? The DVR would keep track of the upcoming recordings and pick a drive as needed, in other words, but to the user it would seem as a "single" drive when viewing the playlist.
> 
> Just exploring options where the DVR would not have to partition each drive to build the array you mentioned...


In theory that could work but what's the point? Most of us who use external drives are using 2TB drives. I'd never be using the internal drive with that setup.


----------



## Drew2k

RunnerFL said:


> In theory that could work but what's the point? Most of us who use external drives are using 2TB drives. I'd never be using the internal drive with that setup.


Easy. It primarily helps those who have never added an external drive and who want to expand, as in this setup when that user plugged in a new external drive they would still have access to the recordings from the internal drive.

For those who already cleaned up their internal drives and have been using external drives, you'd just gain extra storage.

Makes it more user friendly for everyone.


----------



## RunnerFL

Drew2k said:


> Easy. It primarily helps those who have never added an external drive and who want to expand, as in this setup when that user plugged in a new external drive they would still have access to the recordings from the internal drive.
> 
> For those who already cleaned up their internal drives and have been using external drives, you'd just gain extra storage.
> 
> Makes it more user friendly for everyone.


I'd prefer a backup/transfer mechanism over more storage.


----------



## Drew2k

RunnerFL said:


> I'd prefer a backup/transfer mechanism over more storage.


I hear you. I'd be happy if DIRECTV allowed remote configuration backups (series links, etc.) to the cloud, but I can't see DIRECTV giving an option for backups except in one direction: the smaller factory-installed hard drive to a user-supplied external hard-drive of the same or larger capacity.

Transfers may be a more likely option, assuming users could select which DVR to transfer a recording to, as the user just needs to have free space somewhere.

I've been wanting to add capacity to my DVRs but have never been able to clean off completely any DVR the the point where I am OK ignoring the internal drive. Transferring to another DVR would be a big help, and being able to add an external drive without losing access to internal recordings would be icing on the cake for me.


----------



## Rich

Drew2k said:


> A lot of people would hate that, but isn't it just speculation that a new storage scheme would require reformatting the drives to allow both the internal and external to work in conjunction?
> 
> We don't know how they're going to do it, or when, but how great would it be if they put out firmware that allows usage of both drives that does not require a reformat of either drive? If you've been using an external drive, the worst that would happen is you'd see any programs recorded on the internal drive. That would be the best scenario...
> 
> I'm convinced that use of eSATA drives one day will become a supported feature, so I just hope DIRECTV doesn't go a proprietary route and require we buy a drive and enclosure from THEM.


Wonder how the CSRs would cope with that? Since we can use 2TB drives, the loss of the internal drives aren't much of a hit, unless we're talking about the 34s. All my external/internal (on my owned units) drives are 2TBs, and I didn't come closer than ~20% Available on any of them this year.

Rich


----------



## Rich

RunnerFL said:


> A new "storage scheme" would require re-partitioning and re-partitioning requires formatting. Using 2 drives together to create one storage area would require either JBOD or RAID0. Both require an array and creating an array would require new partitions. Doing it any other way would be very unstable and most certainly unacceptable.
> 
> Using one as backup to another would be different and wouldn't be called a "storage scheme", it would be a backup scheme.


How did the TiVos manage to add HDDs? I installed many dual HDDs in my TiVos. I do realize the OS was on one of the drives. Still, the dual HDD's capacity was added together. All I needed was a bracket and a jumper wire, if I remember correctly. Just curious.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Drew2k said:


> Easy. It primarily helps those who have never added an external drive and who want to expand, as in this setup when that user plugged in a new external drive they would still have access to the recordings from the internal drive.
> 
> For those who already cleaned up their internal drives and have been using external drives, you'd just gain extra storage.
> 
> Makes it more user friendly for everyone.


Drew, we really gotta be careful what we wish for. Every big change scares hell out of me.

Rich


----------



## RunnerFL

Rich said:


> How did the TiVos manage to add HDDs? I installed many dual HDDs in my TiVos. I do realize the OS was on one of the drives. Still, the dual HDD's capacity was added together. All I needed was a bracket and a jumper wire, if I remember correctly. Just curious.
> 
> Rich


From what I remember you would install the drives and then you would "bless" the drives which married them and created something along the lines of a JBOD array. You couldn't just add a drive and keep your existing content.


----------



## RunnerFL

Rich said:


> Drew, we really gotta be careful what we wish for. Every big change scares hell out of me.
> 
> Rich


Agreed. It may help those that don't already use an external drive but could also in turn, even if unintentionally, hurt those of us who do.


----------



## Drew2k

Just for comparison, Cablevision has a different scheme for external drives used with internal: When installed, the external drive is married to the DVR and recordings can be made on either the internal drive, the external drive or BOTH drives simultaneously. You never lose access to the internal recordings, but if you disconnect the external drive and a recording was fully or partially stored on the external drive, you'd see the title in the playlist but would not be able to play or delete it.


----------



## Drew2k

Rich said:


> Drew, we really gotta be careful what we wish for. Every big change scares hell out of me.
> 
> Rich





RunnerFL said:


> Agreed. It may help those that don't already use an external drive but could also in turn, even if unintentionally, hurt those of us who do.


Believe me ... I ain't got no pull, so if there are any plans for using internal and external drives simultaneously, my musings won't influence them one way or another.


----------



## RunnerFL

Drew2k said:


> Believe me ... I ain't got no pull, so if there are any plans for using internal and external drives simultaneously, my musings won't influence them one way or another.


It doesn't have to be simultaneous storage. Whenever they go mucking around with anything in regards to drive storage, internal or external, there's a risk of total format.

The more I think about it the more I say leave it as is.


----------



## nsolot

The concept of increasing storage by using multiple physical drive "devices" within one logical volume has been around for years. I recall doing it with Novell Netware in the mid 90's, however it was risky thing to do without mirroring devices for fault tolerance.

If I had a vote, I vote for breaking the 2 TB limit, as drive capacity is just going to keep getting larger.


----------



## Rich

RunnerFL said:


> From what I remember you would install the drives and then you would "bless" the drives which married them and created something along the lines of a JBOD array. You couldn't just add a drive and keep your existing content.


I did so many HDD changes on TiVos and I can't remember much except how to do it. I didn't take keeping your existing content into consideration.

Rich


----------



## Rich

RunnerFL said:


> Agreed. It may help those that don't already use an external drive but could also in turn, even if unintentionally, hurt those of us who do.


Be nice if we could get the word out that WE CAN HELP now and do it better than anyone else can.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Drew2k said:


> Believe me ... I ain't got no pull, so if there are any plans for using internal and external drives simultaneously, my musings won't influence them one way or another.


Many musings along this line might. Can't begin to imagine what would happen.

Rich


----------



## Rich

nsolot said:


> The concept of increasing storage by using multiple physical drive "devices" within one logical volume has been around for years. I recall doing it with Novell Netware in the mid 90's, however it was risky thing to do without mirroring devices for fault tolerance.
> 
> If I had a vote, I vote for breaking the 2 TB limit, as drive capacity is just going to keep getting larger.


I think most of us with multiple 2TB HDDs would be happy just to leave it the way it is, unless D* comes out with a totally new model that would support 3TB storage and that would, undoubtedly, lead to D* "supporting" the eSATA function. We can do that ourselves, we don't need to lose that freedom.

Rich


----------



## mrkwstrlnd

Our dvr is not sharing with the receiver we have upstairs. the Direct tech that paid us a visit said that we'd have to get a new dvr. We want to save the shows that we have recorded, mainly the wifes. Is there a way to do that and then transfer them back to the new dvr? Thanks.


----------



## inkahauts

"mrkwstrlnd" said:


> Our dvr is not sharing with the receiver we have upstairs. the Direct tech that paid us a visit said that we'd have to get a new dvr. We want to save the shows that we have recorded, mainly the wifes. Is there a way to do that and then transfer them back to the new dvr? Thanks.


Did you reboot the receiver and reset network defaults? Often that will fix the issue, it's likely software related and not hardware related.

There is no way to save your recordings or transfer them. I suggest watching them all before getting your unit swapped out.


----------



## CCarncross

mrkwstrlnd said:


> Our dvr is not sharing with the receiver we have upstairs. the Direct tech that paid us a visit said that we'd have to get a new dvr. We want to save the shows that we have recorded, mainly the wifes. Is there a way to do that and then transfer them back to the new dvr? Thanks.


Nope....the recordings are married to the dvr they were recorded on.


----------



## MarkEHansen

I'm trying to copy the contents of my old eSATA drive to a new, larger eSATA drive. I'm using the instructions found in this post:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=148760

Everything goes fine until I get to the point where I begin the xfsdump and xfsrestore commands. By the way, the gparted live terminal I get does not have root permissions, and so I need to "sudo su -" to become root before I do any of this. If anyone thinks that's a problem, perhaps we should look at that.

When I run the xfsdump pipe to xfsrestore, the kernel panics. It is complaining about xfsrestore, but I don't understand the problem (something about a null pointer).

When I reboot the machine and try it again, it fails because it says a restore was interrupted and I must provide either -R (to resume) or -Q (to force), so I add a -Q (to the xfsrestore) command. It again causes a kernel panic.

I downloaded the GParted Live CD, version 0.12.1-5 iso image and burned it to a cd, and am booting the machine with that.

Is there anything else I can do to get this copy to work? Do I need a different GParted Live version?

What about having to become root? The instructions definitely don't say anything about this, but without being root, I can't create the directories in /mnt, I can't mount the partitions, xfsrestore doesn't have permission to write into the new drive, etc.

Just for completeness, here is what I am doing:

The original drive is /dev/sdb
The new drive is /dev/sda

mkdir /mnt/new /mnt/orig
mount -t xfs -o rtdev=/dev/sda3 /dev/sda2 /mnt/new
mount -t xfs -o rtdev=/dev/sdb3 /dev/sdb2 /mnt/orig

xfsdump -J - /mnt/orig | xfsrestore -Q -J -p 600 - /mnt/new

This is where the kernel panics.

Please help.


----------



## P Smith

Mark, please continue in dedicated thread - you're drugging this one off-topic.
You will need to read that thread more closely - there you'll find what GParted version is working.


----------



## CCarncross

Use an older version of gparted....I still use .3.9-13...works 100% of the time..there are many newer version of gparted that do not work so I just continue to use a really old version.


----------



## detroit_fan

I'm 1 week in with my external WD 2TB and it's working great so far. The amount it holds is great, should have done this long ago.


----------



## Rich

detroit_fan said:


> I'm 1 week in with my external WD 2TB and it's working great so far. The amount it holds is great, should have done this long ago.


Happy you're happy.... :lol:

Rich


----------



## Bane

MarkEHansen said:


> I'm trying to copy the contents of my old eSATA drive to a new, larger eSATA drive. I'm using the instructions found in this post:
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=148760
> 
> Everything goes fine until I get to the point where I begin the xfsdump and xfsrestore commands. By the way, the gparted live terminal I get does not have root permissions, and so I need to "sudo su -" to become root before I do any of this. If anyone thinks that's a problem, perhaps we should look at that.
> 
> When I run the xfsdump pipe to xfsrestore, the kernel panics. It is complaining about xfsrestore, but I don't understand the problem (something about a null pointer).
> 
> When I reboot the machine and try it again, it fails because it says a restore was interrupted and I must provide either -R (to resume) or -Q (to force), so I add a -Q (to the xfsrestore) command. It again causes a kernel panic.
> 
> I downloaded the GParted Live CD, version 0.12.1-5 iso image and burned it to a cd, and am booting the machine with that.
> 
> Is there anything else I can do to get this copy to work? Do I need a different GParted Live version?
> 
> What about having to become root? The instructions definitely don't say anything about this, but without being root, I can't create the directories in /mnt, I can't mount the partitions, xfsrestore doesn't have permission to write into the new drive, etc.
> 
> Just for completeness, here is what I am doing:
> 
> The original drive is /dev/sdb
> The new drive is /dev/sda
> 
> mkdir /mnt/new /mnt/orig
> mount -t xfs -o rtdev=/dev/sda3 /dev/sda2 /mnt/new
> mount -t xfs -o rtdev=/dev/sdb3 /dev/sdb2 /mnt/orig
> 
> xfsdump -J - /mnt/orig | xfsrestore -Q -J -p 600 - /mnt/new
> 
> This is where the kernel panics.
> 
> Please help.


There is a much easier method.

1. Install your new drive into the eSATA.
2. Hook it up to your receiver
3. When it is finished with setup (you will kow when yo can watch live tv) go to the setup menu and restart.
4. When all lights are out on the receiver, unplug the receiver and eSATA power.
5. Hook both drives up to your computer (the original drive and the new one)
6. start up partition cloning software such as HDCLone, Easus Partition Copy, or any other tool capable of copying partitions.
7. Copy partition 2 and partition 3 on the original disk to partition 2 and partition 3 of the new one.
8. Take new larger drive and hook it up to your DVR, you will now have your recorded shows and all your schedules available.

This is much easier than than the gparted method and less prone to user error. This also allows you to use whatever OS and disk software you are comfortable with.

Jamy


----------



## inkahauts

"Bane" said:


> There is a much easier method.
> 
> 1. Install your new drive into the eSATA.
> 2. Hook it up to your receiver
> 3. When it is finished with setup (you will kow when yo can watch live tv) go to the setup menu and restart.
> 4. When all lights are out on the receiver, unplug the receiver and eSATA power.
> 5. Hook both drives up to your computer (the original drive and the new one)
> 6. start up partition cloning software such as HDCLone, Easus Partition Copy, or any other tool capable of copying partitions.
> 7. Copy partition 2 and partition 3 on the original disk to partition 2 and partition 3 of the new one.
> 8. Take new larger drive and hook it up to your DVR, you will now have your recorded shows and all your schedules available.
> 
> This is much easier than than the gparted method and less prone to user error. This also allows you to use whatever OS and disk software you are comfortable with.
> 
> Jamy


Have you actually done that? I hadn't seen that posted before, but I don't check the copying thread too often. That seems like a much easier way to do it.


----------



## P Smith

inkahauts said:


> Have you actually done that? I hadn't seen that posted before, but I don't check the copying thread too often. That seems like a much easier way to do it.


Are you sure will not be a COPY, we are doing EXPANDING by Linux XFS tool.

1. HDClone doesn't support XFS !
2. Easus Partition Copy doesn't support XFS !


----------



## Bane

inkahauts said:


> Have you actually done that? I hadn't seen that posted before, but I don't check the copying thread too often. That seems like a much easier way to do it.


I have done it three times and it worked perfectly. All three times I moved from a 500 GB to a 2TB drive. I ended up buying the $20 version of HDClone, before I found out there were free tools that would do the same thing.

I have had 0 issues with this process.

Jamy


----------



## Bane

P Smith said:


> Are you sure will not be a COPY, we are doing EXPANDING by Linux XFS tool.
> 
> 1. HDClone doesn't support XFS !
> 2. Easus Partition Copy doesn't support XFS !
> 
> I'm wondering if it verbal exercise of newbie ?


You are not expanding the partitions on the new drive with this process. The DVR is building the new partitions for you when you hook up the drive to begin with. After that, you are just copying the scheduler and stored show data to the correspondng partitions on the new disk. As stated above, I have already done this 3 times successfully. HDClone standard edition works perfectly, basic does not due to limitations on the free version. Specifically it won't let you copy just partition data, only the entire disk.

I would love to say that I discovered this, but I actually found it on the directv forum. http://forums.directv.com/pe/action/forums/displaypost?postID=10980588

The caveat here is that this only works if the new drive will be used on the same DVR.

Newbie insults not needed BTW...


----------



## P Smith

Bane said:


> You are not expanding the partitions on the new drive with this process. The DVR is building the new partitions for you when you hook up the drive to begin with. After that, you are just copying the scheduler and stored show data to the correspondng partitions on the new disk. As stated above, I have already done this 3 times successfully. HDClone standard edition works perfectly, basic does not due to limitations on the free version. Specifically it won't let you copy just partition data, only the entire disk.
> 
> I would love to say that I discovered this, but I actually found it on the directv forum. http://forums.directv.com/pe/action/forums/displaypost?postID=10980588
> 
> The caveat here is that this only works if the new drive will be used on the same DVR.
> 
> Newbie insults not needed BTW...


1st - I removed offending phrase.
2nd - so it's working ... mmmm...

I have fundamental question: how the HDCLONE copying XFS partitions ? Sector by sector blindly?

Perhaps you and other ppl are lucky - rtdev partition just a data chunks - no addresses ... Actually double lucky - as a location and a size of CRITICAL partition#2 [XFS] is fixed.

Personally, I don't like the method - it was pure luck for that guy who used it first. He just blindly did 'bet on zero' his $100 recordings and won this time. Dumb luck I would say.


----------



## mocarob

Bane said:


> I have done it three times and it worked perfectly. All three times I moved from a 500 GB to a 2TB drive. I ended up buying the $20 version of HDClone, before I found out there were free tools that would do the same thing.
> I have had 0 issues with this process.
> Jamy


What is the free tool that will do it this way?


----------



## P Smith

mocarob said:


> What is the free tool that will do it this way?


He wrote:


> HDClone standard edition works perfectly, basic does not due to limitations on the free version. Specifically it won't let you copy just partition data, only the entire disk.


So, no free lunch ...

I would recommend to stick with Gparted. It's free (not the first requirement !) and (what is VERY IMPOTRTANT !!!) correctly handle XFS file system ! That's important.
This time chasing dumb luck could be dangerous and using improper software wouldn't make the process better. I'm not telling about extra hours ...

*Actually we gone to far with off-topic.*


----------



## mocarob

P Smith said:


> 1st - I removed offending phrase.
> 2nd - so it's working ... mmmm...
> I have fundamental question: how the HDCLONE copying EXT3+XFS partitions ? Sector by sector blindly?
> Perhaps you and other ppl are lucky - rtdev partition just a data chunks - no addresses ... Actually double lucky - as a location and a size of CRITICAL partition#2 [EXT3+XFS] is fixed.
> Personally, I don't like the method - it was pure luck for that guy who used it first. He just blindly did 'bet on zero' his $100 recordings and won this time. Dumb luck I would say.


P. He said it has worked 3 times and others have used it.
If true, Thats more than dumb luck isn't it?
I will be copying a drive soon, I might try this.

Why do you say 'bet' on his recordings? There's no threat of losing recordings from the source drive is there?


----------



## Bane

mocarob said:


> What is the free tool that will do it this way?


Any good partition cloning tool that should work as they are copying bit for bit, not performing a file system copy the way a operating system does. However I found out about the free tools such as http://www.partition-tool.com/easeus-partition-manager/partition-copy.htm, after spending $20 on HDClone. I went searching for other methods after running into issues with gparted. I also didn't mind paying for $20 for HDClone, $20 is minimal for a solution that works.


----------



## Bane

mocarob said:


> P. He said it has worked 3 times and others have used it.
> If true, Thats more than dumb luck isn't it?
> I will be copying a drive soon, I might try this.
> 
> Why do you say 'bet' on his recordings? There's no threat of losing recordings from the source drive is there?


I have had 0, I repeat ZERO problems palying back shows that were copied or having my shedules work correctly. I had more problems finding eSATA enclosures that work with the DVR's than I have copying the data. Now if I could figure out a way to copy an internal drive ithout cracking the case I would be in heaven.


----------



## P Smith

mocarob said:


> P. He said it has worked 3 times and others have used it.
> If true, Thats more than dumb luck isn't it?
> I will be copying a drive soon, I might try this.
> 
> Why do you say 'bet' on his recordings? There's no threat of losing recordings from the source drive is there?


Really, *the thread not about COPYING*.

[I did answer your question in my last couple posts - it was just dumb luck with the 'tools'].


----------



## Bane

P Smith said:


> 1st - I removed offending phrase.
> 2nd - so it's working ... mmmm...
> 
> I have fundamental question: how the HDCLONE copying EXT3+XFS partitions ? Sector by sector blindly?
> 
> Perhaps you and other ppl are lucky - rtdev partition just a data chunks - no addresses ... Actually double lucky - as a location and a size of CRITICAL partition#2 [EXT3+XFS] is fixed.
> 
> Personally, I don't like the method - it was pure luck for that guy who used it first. He just blindly did 'bet on zero' his $100 recordings and won this time. Dumb luck I would say.[/QUO
> 
> All disk tools work the same at their core. They are copying 0's and 1's nothing more. At that level, the parituclar file system does not matter. Gparted is no differnt, it is just a more complex method than what I have described.


----------



## P Smith

*The thread is not about COPYING.*

[No, it is NOT just 0&1. That's why it is dumb luck you use the blind method. Then use DD cmd - it would be much easy and speedy if use it wisely].


----------



## Bane

P Smith said:


> *The thread is not about COPYING.*
> 
> [No, it is NOT just 0&1. That's why it is dumb luck you use the blind method. Then use DD cmd - it would be much easy and speedy if use it wisely].


Not dumb luck at all, if you have any knowledge of disk cloning/copying. We'll have to agree to dis-agree.

The difference is that te DVR has already made the file system and partitons for you, at that point you are using a disk tool to copy the data. With GParted, you are building the entire disk structure. The same process should work with Gparted too, I just haven't tested it.


----------



## grecorj

This seemed like a good deal for a 2TB WD EARS drive, $99, free shipping

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136891

I also used my free ShopRunner account for 2 day shipping.


----------



## P Smith

Bane said:


> Not dumb luck at all, *if you have any knowledge of disk cloning/copying*. We'll have to agree to dis-agree.
> 
> The difference is that te DVR has already made the file system and partitons for you, at that point you are using a disk tool to copy the data. *With GParted, you are building the entire disk structure*. The same process should work with Gparted too, I just haven't tested it.


You are wrong on both accounts. 
I have knowledge on file systems deep enough to write my own.
Our method (using Gparted or any appropriate Linux XFS tool) is based on using DVR's pre-build correct file system.

Can we switch to appropriate thread ?


----------



## grecorj

Dumb question...once I hook up an external drive to my HR24, can I unplug it and access the recordings on the internal drive? And then re-attach external and see those recordings?


----------



## mocarob

grecorj said:


> Dumb question...once I hook up an external drive to my HR24, can I unplug it and access the recordings on the internal drive? And then re-attach external and see those recordings?


yes


----------



## RunnerFL

grecorj said:


> Dumb question...once I hook up an external drive to my HR24, can I unplug it and access the recordings on the internal drive? And then re-attach external and see those recordings?


As long as you reboot after each connect/disconnect of the eSATA drive, yes.


----------



## ntrance

Bane said:


> There is a much easier method.
> 
> 1. Install your new drive into the eSATA.
> 2. Hook it up to your receiver
> 3. When it is finished with setup (you will kow when yo can watch live tv) go to the setup menu and restart.
> 4. When all lights are out on the receiver, unplug the receiver and eSATA power.
> 5. Hook both drives up to your computer (the original drive and the new one)
> 6. start up partition cloning software such as HDCLone, Easus Partition Copy, or any other tool capable of copying partitions.
> 7. Copy partition 2 and partition 3 on the original disk to partition 2 and partition 3 of the new one.
> 8. Take new larger drive and hook it up to your DVR, you will now have your recorded shows and all your schedules available.
> 
> This is much easier than than the gparted method and less prone to user error. This also allows you to use whatever OS and disk software you are comfortable with.
> 
> Jamy


Please verify that you can use more capacity on your new larger hard drive than on your original drive. I suspect that once you try store more recordings than your original drive held, you will start to experience lockups on the DVR. If HDClone is simply bit for bit copying as both you and I suspect, you almost will certainly experience the freezing. I tried a similar method without success before posting the xfsdump/xfsrestore method. If you find that the freezing does occur with the HDClone method, please edit your existing posts so as not to spread misinformation. If you confirm it does work, then I suppose that is good news for some. I will still prefer the free method.


----------



## Bane

ntrance said:


> Please verify that you can use more capacity on your new larger hard drive than on your original drive. I suspect that once you try store more recordings than your original drive held, you will start to experience lockups on the DVR. If HDClone is simply bit for bit copying as both you and I suspect, you almost will certainly experience the freezing. I tried a similar method without success before posting the xfsdump/xfsrestore method. If you find that the freezing does occur with the HDClone method, please edit your existing posts so as not to spread misinformation. If you confirm it does work, then I suppose that is good news for some. I will still prefer the free method.


I absolutely am using more space than I had before. I haven't deleted anything from my drives since the upgrades and have contined to record more shows, more than I would have had space for before. All of my units work flawlessly, I have had 0 lockups. I absolutely will post if I have issues, I have nothing to gain by keeping secrets or telling people about this success.


----------



## P Smith

ntrance, I think I get explained the point in my previous post.

dd would works here too because of that.


----------



## ntrance

Bane said:


> I absolutely am using more space than I had before. I haven't deleted anything from my drives since the upgrades and have contined to record more shows, more than I would have had space for before. All of my units work flawlessly, I have had 0 lockups. I absolutely will post if I have issues, I have nothing to gain by keeping secrets or telling people about this success.


Sorry, I don't think I explained myself clearly. I would expect that you could record more shows than were on your previous drive, but not past the max capacity of your previous drive. Let's say you were at 80% full on your previous drive, then I would expect that you could record that final 20% of your old capacity on the new drive without issue. However, if you try to go past 100% capacity of the old drive, then you will start having problems. Since you old drive was about 25% the capacity of your new drive, try filling your new drive until the dvr reports 70% or less free (a little extra just to be sure) by recoding a bunch of HD, then report back. I have no issue with new methods, but I am just skeptical this one works based on prior personal experience, and I have spent a lot of time investigating the process and software involved. If it does work, I would be quite surprised, as the web site for the software makes no mention of xfs or real-time subvolumes, which is why I assume the software is simply using sector by sector copying of the xfs data.


P Smith said:


> ntrance, I think I get explained the point in my previous post.
> 
> dd would works here too because of that.


Having the DVR create the partitions and then using dd to copy the data from each partition over individually over does not work. I tried this back in 2007 along with others, and we all had the problems I described above. That is what lead me to develop the xfsdump/xfsrestore method.


----------



## RunnerFL

ntrance said:


> Having the DVR create the partitions and then using dd to copy the data from each partition over individually over does not work. I tried this back in 2007 along with others, and we all had the problems I described above. That is what lead me to develop the xfsdump/xfsrestore method.


Using dd will never work if you're using a bigger drive as your destination. Using dd makes an exact copy of the source drive. That includes MBR, partition table, everything.


----------



## ntrance

RunnerFL said:


> Using dd will never work if you're using a bigger drive as your destination. Using dd makes an exact copy of the source drive. That includes MBR, partition table, everything.


I gave the abridged version. Several other things were tried, editing partition tables, using xfs_growfs, etc., without success. But the point is, unless the copy tool understands the xfs data and real-time subvolumes, it is unlikely to work. I'll try to refrain from commenting again in this thread, until bane posts his results, as we are already well off topic. I simply wanted provide a warning close to the suspect procedure. Any further discussions can continue in one of the various disk copying threads.


----------



## P Smith

That's what I did ask mods - move the off-topic posts to appropriate thread ...

[I should clarify my note about using dd - I must add that: use dd for copy strictly partition's data, without affecting meta data what DVR created.]


----------



## Bane

ntrance said:


> Sorry, I don't think I explained myself clearly. I would expect that you could record more shows than were on your previous drive, but not past the max capacity of your previous drive. Let's say you were at 80% full on your previous drive, then I would expect that you could record that final 20% of your old capacity on the new drive without issue. However, if you try to go past 100% capacity of the old drive, then you will start having problems. Since you old drive was about 25% the capacity of your new drive, try filling your new drive until the dvr reports 70% or less free (a little extra just to be sure) by recoding a bunch of HD, then report back. I have no issue with new methods, but I am just skeptical this one works based on prior personal experience, and I have spent a lot of time investigating the process and software involved. If it does work, I would be quite surprised, as the web site for the software makes no mention of xfs or real-time subvolumes, which is why I assume the software is simply using sector by sector copying of the xfs data.
> 
> Having the DVR create the partitions and then using dd to copy the data from each partition over individually over does not work. I tried this back in 2007 along with others, and we all had the problems I described above. That is what lead me to develop the xfsdump/xfsrestore method.


I copied a 1 TB drive to a 2 TB drive in one case. My 1 TB drive was 95% full. The 2 TB drive that I did this too is currently at 25% free with no issues. So, I am well beyond the original capacity. My others were 500 GB to 1 TB, and no problems with them either.


----------



## TomCat

grecorj said:


> This seemed like a good deal for a 2TB WD EARS drive, $99, free shipping
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136891...


Hi grecorj (and others).

I have used various Caviar Green drives about 4 times now, with good results, but always installed in a HR20. I got a replacement refurbed HR21 yesterday, and this is my first experience with that model. My MO has always been, as another forum member succinctly puts it, to swap out the internal drive before the FEDEX truck's tailights disappear down the road. This time will be no exception.

So, the question then is what models of WD green drives are the best (at 2 TB) for that particular DVR? Are they the same, pretty much, as for the HR20?

One more: BB converters on the HR21? Yes? No?

I am replacing my last HR10-250 (end of an era; RIP old friend) so if I need them I guess I need to call DTV and get some overnighted.


----------



## Rich

TomCat said:


> Hi grecorj (and others).
> 
> I have used various Caviar Green drives about 4 times now, with good results, but always installed in a HR20. I got a replacement refurbed HR21 yesterday, and this is my first experience with that model. My MO has always been, as another forum member succinctly puts it, to swap out the internal drive before the FEDEX truck's tailights disappear down the road. This time will be no exception.
> 
> *So, the question then is what models of WD green drives are the best (at 2 TB) for that particular DVR? Are they the same, pretty much, as for the HR20?*
> 
> One more: BB converters on the HR21? Yes? No?
> 
> I am replacing my last HR10-250 (end of an era; RIP old friend) so if I need them I guess I need to call DTV and get some overnighted.


I've yet to try a Green WD drive that doesn't work on any of the HRs. The EARS is a good choice, I just paid $128 for one on Amazon, so Newegg's price is a good one.

You do need the BB converters unless you have a DECA system. Surprised you don't have one.

Rich


----------



## Volman

Rich said:


> I've yet to try a Green WD drive that doesn't work on any of the HRs. The EARS is a good choice, I just paid $128 for one on Amazon, so Newegg's price is a good one.
> 
> You do need the BB converters unless you have a DECA system. Surprised you don't have one.
> 
> Rich


Hey, Rich!

Any reason not to buy a WD20EARX for $113.99 off Amazon since it's newer than the "EARS"?

Thanks!

Fred


----------



## Rich

Volman said:


> Hey, Rich!
> 
> Any reason not to buy a WD20EARX for $113.99 off Amazon since it's newer than the "EARS"?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Fred


Hi Fred, always good to hear from you.

Just bought one for more than that. Nuts. Every time I buy something from Amazon, they drop the price a couple weeks later. Nothing wrong with the EARX, I just put one in one of my 24-500s and it works well.

Rich


----------



## Volman

Rich said:


> Hi Fred, always good to hear from you.
> 
> Just bought one for more than that. Nuts. Every time I buy something from Amazon, they drop the price a couple weeks later. Nothing wrong with the EARX, I just put one in one of my 24-500s and it works well.
> 
> Rich


Good to hear from you, Rich.

This one is going into a PC as a backup drive........at least for now. Thanks for the info. I'm the one usually caught in the middle of price drops. Maybe my luck has changed.

Did you have problems with the storm in NJ? I know a guy who was without power for 5 days. Hope you missed that stuff!

Fred


----------



## Rich

Volman said:


> Good to hear from you, Rich.
> 
> This one is going into a PC as a backup drive........at least for now. Thanks for the info. I'm the one usually caught in the middle of price drops. Maybe my luck has changed.
> 
> Did you have problems with the storm in NJ? I know a guy who was without power for 5 days. Hope you missed that stuff!
> 
> Fred


Have no idea what's happening in NJ, I'm in MD at the beach for the week. I looked at that storm on the WeatherBug and it looked pretty scary. And it's gonna happen again tonight. Only upside I can see is I might not lose my lawn completely. Might lose all my UPS device's batteries, tho. Everything else is insured. The worst power losses we see are usually to the northwest of us.

Thanx for thinking of me, Fred.

Rich


----------



## TomCat

Rich said:


> I've yet to try a Green WD drive that doesn't work on any of the HRs. The EARS is a good choice, I just paid $128 for one on Amazon, so Newegg's price is a good one.
> 
> You do need the BB converters unless you have a DECA system. Surprised you don't have one.
> 
> Rich


Yeah, I got them to send me some, and for whatever reason they are sending me a 6-pack of them.:eek2:

DECA is not for me; all DVRs are in one room.

I had a EURS that I bought last September thinking I would need it for a HR20, but did not, so I am using that with a ThermalTake on this HR21. So far, so good. Of course last September was a bad time to buy due to the tsunami (they were up to $160 then), but that is when I thought I would need it. Slight miscue there.

They did not send a remote, either, which makes no real sense since I was replacing a HR10-250. If it were my company I would fix that today, and it would be simple to do; just have the CSR take down what model of DVR is being replaced. When shipping crosses that with whatever model they are shipping out, just put whatever is needed in the #%$-darned box. It's a no-brainer, isn't it?

That solves three problems for DTV:

1) One service call per replacement rather than two.
2) The illusion that they actually know what they are doing, which the current plan raises significant doubt regarding.
3) The cost of constantly overnighting BB converters and remotes.​Otherwise you have unhappy customers, increased service calls, and the perception that they are pretty far from actually knowing what they are doing or even possess the basic understanding of how to run a business. It's not brain surgery, so I am puzzled as to why they still have this issue, an issue they have had constantly since they started replacing HR10-250s in 2007. Its really disturbing that a company I have given my credit card number to has such a bush-league approach to DVR replacements. OK, back OT. Or, sort of.

******************************

This DVR replacement also allowed me to graduate from component to HDMI (the HR10 had a dead HDMI xmit board). I got a nice 4x2 switch with added analog audio out from Monoprice for about $58.

I have long stated (and it is still true) that component and HDMI have the exact same PQ, and that it is unlikely that component will degrade over short cables (also true). But what became problematic is that when you send 4 different untimed component signals into the same switchbox, the signals are so close together that they can interfere with each other interchassis, and I could briefly see a sync bar ghosting from one input to another on occasion, rolling slowly across the screen. HDMI fixes that.

So, although HDMI has the same PQ as component, if you are going to use an outboard component switch box, you may also have this problem, making HDMI a better choice specifically for that reason.


----------



## Rich

TomCat said:


> Yeah, I got them to send me some, and for whatever reason they are sending me a 6-pack of them.:eek2:
> 
> DECA is not for me; all DVRs are in one room.
> 
> I had a EURS that I bought last September thinking I would need it for a HR20, but did not, so I am using that with a ThermalTake on this HR21. So far, so good. Of course last September was a bad time to buy due to the tsunami (they were up to $160 then), but that is when I thought I would need it. Slight miscue there.
> 
> They did not send a remote, either, which makes no real sense since I was replacing a HR10-250. If it were my company I would fix that today, and it would be simple to do; just have the CSR take down what model of DVR is being replaced. When shipping crosses that with whatever model they are shipping out, just put whatever is needed in the #%$-darned box. It's a no-brainer, isn't it?
> 
> That solves three problems for DTV:
> 
> 1) One service call per replacement rather than two.
> 2) The illusion that they actually know what they are doing, which the current plan raises significant doubt regarding.
> 3) The cost of constantly overnighting BB converters and remotes.​Otherwise you have unhappy customers, increased service calls, and the perception that they are pretty far from actually knowing what they are doing or even possess the basic understanding of how to run a business. It's not brain surgery, so I am puzzled as to why they still have this issue, an issue they have had constantly since they started replacing HR10-250s in 2007. Its really disturbing that a company I have given my credit card number to has such a bush-league approach to DVR replacements. OK, back OT. Or, sort of.
> 
> ******************************
> 
> This DVR replacement also allowed me to graduate from component to HDMI (the HR10 had a dead HDMI xmit board). I got a nice 4x2 switch with added analog audio out from Monoprice for about $58.
> 
> I have long stated (and it is still true) that component and HDMI have the exact same PQ, and that it is unlikely that component will degrade over short cables (also true). But what became problematic is that when you send 4 different untimed component signals into the same switchbox, the signals are so close together that they can interfere with each other interchassis, and I could briefly see a sync bar ghosting from one input to another on occasion, rolling slowly across the screen. HDMI fixes that.
> 
> So, although HDMI has the same PQ as component, if you are going to use an outboard component switch box, you may also have this problem, making HDMI a better choice specifically for that reason.


I bought a 1080p, 42" Panny plasma last year and it had really crappy PQ when using component wires. Don't know why, but it has great PQ when using HDMI cables. First time this has happened to me.

I replaced a 720p Panny plasma with the 1080p model and just hooked up the wiring the same way. Couldn't figure out why the PQ was so bad on one input and so good on the two others. One input had component and the other two had HDMI inputs. Switched the component to HDMI and the PQ became the same as the other inputs.

Surprised me, I'd been using component wires on some other Panny plasmas, including a 1080p 50" model and saw no difference in any of them. None of my eight Panny plasmas has component wiring on them anymore.

Rich


----------



## hasan

Rich said:


> Hi Fred, always good to hear from you.
> 
> Just bought one for more than that. Nuts. Every time I buy something from Amazon, they drop the price a couple weeks later. Nothing wrong with the EARX, I just put one in one of my 24-500s and it works well.
> 
> Rich


Rich,

Any reason this drive (WD20EARX) wouldn't work with the ThermalTake dock you recommended to me about, what was it, two years ago? I'm thinking of ordering one, but don't want to order something not compatible with the dock.

I got it Sept 2010 and here is the link:

http://www.amazon.com/Thermaltake-BlacX-eSATA-Docking-Station/dp/B001A4HAFS/ref=pd_sim_e_29

I notice this drive is 6 gB speed capable, and the enclosure is rated at 3 gB/s. Does it autonegotiate, or do you have to set jumpers?


----------



## P Smith

Actually it's 6 Gb/s and 3 Gb/s; and yes, each host would negotiate to optimal level, could go down to 1.5 Gb/s too.


----------



## Rich

hasan said:


> Rich,
> 
> Any reason this drive (WD20EARX) wouldn't work with the ThermalTake dock you recommended to me about, what was it, two years ago? I'm thinking of ordering one, but don't want to order something not compatible with the dock.
> 
> I got it Sept 2010 and here is the link:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Thermaltake-BlacX-eSATA-Docking-Station/dp/B001A4HAFS/ref=pd_sim_e_29
> 
> I notice this drive is 6 gB speed capable, and the enclosure is rated at 3 gB/s. Does it autonegotiate, or do you have to set jumpers?


I don't see any reason the EARX wouldn't work in the TT docking station you have. You don't need the jumpers anymore. If you read the literature on the 6Gbs HDDs, they all say that the speed is automatically reduced to fit the speed of the device you're using. Just checked your link and that is the TT docking station I use.

Rich


----------



## hasan

Rich said:


> I don't see any reason the EARX wouldn't work in the TT docking station you have. You don't need the jumpers anymore. If you read the literature on the 6Gbs HDDs, they all say that the speed is automatically reduced to fit the speed of the device you're using. Just checked your link and that is the TT docking station I use.
> 
> Rich


Thanks Rich. I'm going to order another drive, and perhaps another dock, putting it on the HR21-100 that's in the same rack as the HR20-700 and 2TB drive/dock setup you recommended two years ago.

Eventually I intend to replace the HR20-700 with an HR34, maxing out my system to 8 tuners (5 + 2 + 1 (H21-200 bedroom))

If I do use that approach, I'll take my AM21 off the HR21 and move it to the HR34. I don't think the time is quite right for the HR34 yet...sounds like it's not quite ready for prime time.

Thanks again for the confirmation.


----------



## Rich

hasan said:


> Thanks Rich. I'm going to order another drive, and perhaps another dock, putting it on the HR21-100 that's in the same rack as the HR20-700 and 2TB drive/dock setup you recommended two years ago.


That was a fast two years.



> Eventually I intend to replace the HR20-700 with an HR34, maxing out my system to 8 tuners (5 + 2 + 1 (H21-200 bedroom))
> 
> If I do use that approach, I'll take my AM21 off the HR21 and move it to the HR34. I don't think the time is quite right for the HR34 yet...sounds like it's not quite ready for prime time.


I've actually got room for a 34, but I'm taking the same approach you are. Plus, I don't see the need for one and I'm sure not gonna pay for one.



> Thanks again for the confirmation.


You're welcome. Twas my pleasure. Always good to hear from you, Hasan.

Rich


----------



## SmokinLawyer

HR22-700
Rosewill RX-358 U3C BLK (the new one with USB3 & eSATA)
WD AV-GP 1.5TB SATA II (WD15EURS)
SIIG 3.3' SATA External Cable (CB-Sa0111-S-1)

It has been reported that this new Rosewill enclosure will not work with the HR22 and that is NOT correct. It doesn't work with the enclosed eSATA cable but works just fine with the good cable from SIIG. Enclosure and drive are cool and dead silent even with the cooling fan on. Stable in daily use for 5+ weeks now. No bobbles. Nice to have all that space with football season coming on!


----------



## Rich

SmokinLawyer said:


> HR22-700
> Rosewill RX-358 U3C BLK (the new one with USB3 & eSATA)
> WD AV-GP 1.5TB SATA II (WD15EURS)
> SIIG 3.3' SATA External Cable (CB-Sa0111-S-1)
> 
> It has been reported that this new Rosewill enclosure will not work with the HR22 and that is NOT correct. It doesn't work with the enclosed eSATA cable but works just fine with the good cable from SIIG. Enclosure and drive are cool and dead silent even with the cooling fan on. Stable in daily use for 5+ weeks now. No bobbles. Nice to have all that space with football season coming on!


What model HR was that? There are no 22-700s, only 22-100s and the rare 22-200s.

Rich


----------



## rb5505

Volman said:


> Hey, Rich!
> 
> Any reason not to buy a WD20EARX for $113.99 off Amazon since it's newer than the "EARS"?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Fred


the wd20earx is currently at $99.

http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digital-Green-Intellipower-Desktop/dp/B004VFJ9MK/ref=dp_ob_title_ce

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...3r-_-Hard+Drives-_-Western+Digital-_-22136891


----------



## Rich

rb5505 said:


> the wd20earx is currently at $99.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digital-Green-Intellipower-Desktop/dp/B004VFJ9MK/ref=dp_ob_title_ce
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...3r-_-Hard+Drives-_-Western+Digital-_-22136891


I paid $128 for it last week... :nono2:

Rich


----------



## SmokinLawyer

Rich said:


> What model HR was that? There are no 22-700s, only 22-100s and the rare 22-200s.
> 
> Rich


Sorry. My bad. My old eyes are not as good as they used to be and I misread the little sticker. It's an HR22-100.


----------



## Rich

SmokinLawyer said:


> Sorry. My bad. My old eyes are not as good as they used to be and I misread the little sticker. It's an HR22-100.


Gotcha. I think all the HRs will work with the Rosewill enclosure. Surprised me to see that folks are having problems with it.

Rich


----------



## rb5505

Rich said:


> I paid $128 for it last week... :nono2:
> 
> Rich


amazon's price dropped in the past 24 hrs.


----------



## Rich

rb5505 said:


> amazon's price dropped in the past 24 hrs.


Maybe we'll be getting back to the $69 price we were paying before the floods in Thailand.

Rich


----------



## Steve Rhodes

CCarncross said:


> If you move the drive to your HR34, everything will be there....all but OTA recordings will be unplayable..SL's, etc...are all retained.


I thought that the programming on esata drives were permentally married to the dvr they were created on and were not accessible if the esata was hooked to different dvr?

Is this correct that you can move the esata drive to a different dvr and still have access to the programs?


----------



## P Smith

you will still have *access* but play the recordings - it's written so many times ...


----------



## Steve Rhodes

P Smith said:


> you will still have *access* but play the recordings - it's written so many times ...


Please forgive me. I am having trouble parsing what you said.

If I move an esata drive from one dvr to another dvr, can I both play old recordings and record new ones once the drive has been moved?


----------



## P Smith

You will see these in a list, but cannot play/watch - different encryption key (unique to each DVR).


----------



## CCarncross

Steve Rhodes said:


> Please forgive me. I am having trouble parsing what you said.
> 
> If I move an esata drive from one dvr to another dvr, can I both play old recordings and record new ones once the drive has been moved?


All recordings are still there but the only ones that are playable would be ones recorded OTA, so either OTA from an HR 20 or another model that had an AM21 attached. All other recordings will say nothing to play or something to that effect. OTA recordings are not encrypted so they are playable if you move the drive to another dvr, no sat recordings will be playable on a different dvr than the one that recorded them.


----------



## CoolT

For what it's worth I purchased the thermal take blacx 5g. This device has no esata on it so don't make the same mistake I did


----------



## P Smith

CoolT said:


> For what it's worth I purchased the thermal take blacx 5g. This device has no esata on it so don't make the same mistake I did


Usually ppl knew what they want. And do research/consulting *before *buying.


----------



## detroit_fan

My WD20EURS & blacX are still doing great, installed them on 6/23. i love having all this space. i also just added an HR34 and MRV so now I have a 2TB, 1TB, and whatever the HR22 comes standard with.


----------



## Bruce M.

So here's a new problem, at least for me. Have a 2 TB external drive hooked up to a HR24-500. Been working well for a couple of years now. Recently, in the wake of the latest "update", I've had to reboot the HR several times, as I get no picture at all, just a black screen, on start-up. Rebooting fixes that issue. And for the first 3-4 times, following the usual procedure for getting the HR to recognize the external drive worked fine. But a few days ago, following that same procedure, I got a blue screen, with a message telling me that the HR couldn't access any drive at all, and inviting me to reboot. After a couple such messages, on reboot now it recognizes only the internal drive. From all appearances (sound, lights, etc.), the external drive seems to be functioning fine, but the HR won't recognize it any more. Any ideas? Bad external drive, is what I'm thinking...


----------



## Rich

Bruce M. said:


> So here's a new problem, at least for me. Have a 2 TB external drive hooked up to a HR24-500. Been working well for a couple of years now. Recently, in the wake of the latest "update", I've had to reboot the HR several times, as I get no picture at all, just a black screen, on start-up. Rebooting fixes that issue. And for the first 3-4 times, following the usual procedure for getting the HR to recognize the external drive worked fine. But a few days ago, following that same procedure, I got a blue screen, with a message telling me that the HR couldn't access any drive at all, and inviting me to reboot. After a couple such messages, on reboot now it recognizes only the internal drive. From all appearances (sound, lights, etc.), the external drive seems to be functioning fine, but the HR won't recognize it any more. Any ideas? Bad external drive, is what I'm thinking...


Bruce, we'll need more details. What kind of external device is the HDD in?

All the 24-500s I've had are usually a PITA when it comes to external drives, but yours did run for quite a while, so let's rule that out. It will probably be either the external HDD, which we need the model number of, or the external device's chipset is shot. Most likely? The external device is the culprit. The HDD is probably good. That's the usual outcome. Tell us more.

Rich


----------



## Volman

I think it's worthwhile to have an extra external box just for situations like this. To test with-rule out a bad enclosure which is the usual problem, or a bad HDD. I think Rich suggests this, too.

Fred


----------



## Bruce M.

Rich--

Well, I don't know the model number, now that you mention it. Can't find it anyplace on the box. But it is an Antec...?


----------



## Rich

Volman said:


> I think it's worthwhile to have an extra external box just for situations like this. To test with-rule out a bad enclosure which is the usual problem, or a bad HDD. I think Rich suggests this, too.
> 
> Fred


Most definitely, Fred. I always have a spare HDD and a spare external device handy. Great troubleshooting tool.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Bruce M. said:


> Rich--
> 
> Well, I don't know the model number, now that you mention it. Can't find it anyplace on the box. But it is an Antec...?


An Antec MX-1? Look like *this*?

If it is, that might be all that's wrong with the HDD, a bad chipset in the MX-1. The external devices do have these problems frequently. You might want to buy a Thermaltake docking station and try the HDD in it. This is the only external device that I use. I can't get a link for one, search for it on Amazon.

Rich


----------



## Bruce M.

Yes, that's basically it. Doesn't have a logo like that on the top, but does have the name on the end and is almost identically shaped.

So would it be fairly easy to pop out the drive and put it in the new station, assuming I can find it?


----------



## Rich

Bruce M. said:


> Yes, that's basically it. Doesn't have a logo like that on the top, but does have the name on the end and is almost identically shaped.
> 
> So would it be fairly easy to pop out the drive and put it in the new station, assuming I can find it?


Few screws, make sure you take out the ones on the sides that are near the bottom and the HDD should slide backwards easily and be free. As for finding the docking station, just go to amazon.com and in the search box enter "Thermaltake docking station". I'd gladly give you a link, but it won't work without my Amazon password. And NewEgg is giving me the wrong link.

Make sure you buy the dock with SATA in the description. You should be able to post a link and we'll tell you if it's the right one.

Rich


----------



## Bruce M.

How's this one?

http://www.amazon.com/Thermaltake-B...9&sr=8-1&keywords=Thermaltake+docking+station

The challenge, though, may be to extract the drive from the Antec enclosure. There is only one screw I can find. The screw head is on the bottom of the enclosure, on its south end underneath the "Antec" mark. It's a very long screw, but its removal doesn't seem to make any difference--nothing is popping or sliding open or out...


----------



## plewis

Bruce M. said:


> How's this one?
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Thermaltake-B...9&sr=8-1&keywords=Thermaltake+docking+station
> 
> The challenge, though, may be to extract the drive from the Antec enclosure. There is only one screw I can find. The screw head is on the bottom of the enclosure, on its south end underneath the "Antec" mark. It's a very long screw, but its removal doesn't seem to make any difference--nothing is popping or sliding open or out...


when you remove the screw, slide the top section about half an inch towards where the screw was, then it will pop off. Might be stuck from being closed so long. Use your thumbs to push it from the opposite side. It will give. Once you get it off, you will need to remove 2 screws from either side of the hard drive rack which holds the rack and hard drive to the enclosure. Then you remove both of the 2 pin connectors (black and white, blue and white in most cases). Then you slide the rack out similar to how you slide the top off. half an inch slide, then lift it out. Turn it over and there are 4 screws on the bottom holding the HDD to the rack. I just did this about 30 minutes ago. That's why I know


----------



## Bruce M.

Perfect. Thank you! Mission accomplished, so long as the new enclosure supplies the wires and connectors, since mine (which were black and red, and blue and white, respectively) seem to have been integrated into the old enclosure.

Now, all I need is confirmation that I have the right Thermaltake enclosure linked above...?


----------



## P Smith

Right. BlacX with eSATA.


----------



## Bruce M.

Excellent. Two day shipping, and I'll give it a whirl. Thanks to everyone!


----------



## Rich

plewis said:


> when you remove the screw, slide the top section about half an inch towards where the screw was, then it will pop off. Might be stuck from being closed so long. Use your thumbs to push it from the opposite side. It will give. Once you get it off, you will need to remove 2 screws from either side of the hard drive rack which holds the rack and hard drive to the enclosure. Then you remove both of the 2 pin connectors (black and white, blue and white in most cases). Then you slide the rack out similar to how you slide the top off. half an inch slide, then lift it out. Turn it over and there are 4 screws on the bottom holding the HDD to the rack. I just did this about 30 minutes ago. That's why I know


Thanx, glad I didn't have to write that.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Bruce M. said:


> Excellent. Two day shipping, and I'll give it a whirl. Thanks to everyone!


No tools needed for the docking station. It comes with everything you need. Just make sure the HDD is securely in place. That means you should be able to gently lift up the dock with the HDD in it and the HDD should remain in place.

If your HDD is a WD, the label will be facing you right side up, if it's a Seagate, the label will be facing you upside down.

Rich


----------



## plewis

Rich said:


> Thanx, glad I didn't have to write that.
> 
> Rich


My pleasure, we should all give back when we can.


----------



## Rich

plewis said:


> My pleasure, we should all give back when we can.


I've actually forgotten how to mount an HDD in an MX-1. Would have had to take my remaining (doesn't work) MX-1 apart and then write a post on how to do it. Glad you stepped in.

Rich


----------



## dsm

Upgrading a hr20 to hr24 in the next couple of days. Should my mx-1 and WD 1TB GP drive I've been using just move over and work? Or does the hr24 have a different compatibility list? I understand the recordings will be junk. Should I just reset all on the new unit?

Thanks


----------



## inkahauts

"dsm" said:


> Upgrading a hr20 to hr24 in the next couple of days. Should my mx-1 and WD 1TB GP drive I've been using just move over and work? Or does the hr24 have a different compatibility list? I understand the recordings will be junk. Should I just reset all on the new unit?
> 
> Thanks


Should work fine and id probably reset all once it's hooked up to the new one to reformat the drive.


----------



## Rich

inkahauts said:


> Should work fine and id probably reset all once it's hooked up to the new one to reformat the drive.


He'll have to reenter his Series Links if he does that. I never reformat an HDD when I move it to another HR.

Rich


----------



## MrLatte

How does this setup sound?

Western Digital AV-GP 2 TB SATA II Intellipower 64 MB Cache Bulk/OEM Internal Hard Drive - WD20EURS
http://goo.gl/7yz3N

With this external (eSATA) case:
OWC Mercury Elite Pro 0GB Quad Interface Storage Kit
http://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/MEP944FW8EU2/


----------



## dsm

"Rich" said:


> He'll have to reenter his Series Links if he does that. I never reformat an HDD when I move it to another HR.
> 
> Rich


Oh cool, I didn't realize they would carry over. Thanks for mentioning this!


----------



## Bruce M.

Just a quick note to say that the Thermaltake enclosure worked like a charm. The installation of the old HDD into the Thermaltake was truly brainless, and the receiver sensed the external drive right away. It did take a little time for the actual recordings to show up on the receiver's menu. At first, the menu was just a black screen, indicating the percentage of room left on the drive, but no recordings. But after a couple of beats the recordings showed up, and play fine.

After this experience, I'm not sure why I shouldn't always use this particular combination--Thermaltake enclosure with a Seagate 2TB drive. It is true that the cosmetics of the enclosure aren't super, since you see a good part of the drive, which could hurt Wife Acceptance Factor a bit. I just improvised something and it's fine.

Thanks again for the help, Rich and others. I feel strangely empowered by the experience. Rather than buy a new combo drive and enclosure from somebody at $200+, and lose the hundreds of hours of stuff on the old drive, with the gracious help of this board I spent $36 on a Thermaltake and a few minutes extracting the drive from the Antec and hooking the new rig up, and we are back in business, with all previous recordings intact!


----------



## RunnerFL

Bruce M. said:


> After this experience, I'm not sure why I shouldn't always use this particular combination--Thermaltake enclosure with a Seagate 2TB drive.


I've been using a TT dock with a 2TB Seagate on one of my DVRs for over a year now and no problems.


----------



## Rich

Bruce M. said:


> Just a quick note to say that the Thermaltake enclosure worked like a charm. The installation of the old HDD into the Thermaltake was truly brainless, and the receiver sensed the external drive right away. It did take a little time for the actual recordings to show up on the receiver's menu. At first, the menu was just a black screen, indicating the percentage of room left on the drive, but no recordings. But after a couple of beats the recordings showed up, and play fine.
> 
> After this experience, I'm not sure why I shouldn't always use this particular combination--Thermaltake enclosure with a Seagate 2TB drive. It is true that the cosmetics of the enclosure aren't super, since you see a good part of the drive, which could hurt Wife Acceptance Factor a bit. I just improvised something and it's fine.
> 
> Thanks again for the help, Rich and others. I feel strangely empowered by the experience. Rather than buy a new combo drive and enclosure from somebody at $200+, and lose the hundreds of hours of stuff on the old drive, with the gracious help of this board I spent $36 on a Thermaltake and a few minutes extracting the drive from the Antec and hooking the new rig up, and we are back in business, with all previous recordings intact!


Glad we could help. First time I used a TT dock, I was stunned by how easy it was to set up.

Rich


----------



## Rich

RunnerFL said:


> I've been using a TT dock with a 2TB Seagate on one of my DVRs for over a year now and no problems.


No chattering from the Seagate?

Rich


----------



## RunnerFL

Rich said:


> No chattering from the Seagate?


Nope, at least not when I've been here to hear it.


----------



## sticketfan

Will the wd 1 tb my dvr expander work with a hr24-500? I had the previous wd my dvr model hooked to it and it died after 2 yrs...


----------



## P Smith

Any drive could die ANY time. 

You never know, and no one know how long the particular drive will lasts.


----------



## Volman

sticketfan said:


> Will the wd 1 tb my dvr expander work with a hr24-500? I had the previous wd my dvr model hooked to it and it died after 2 yrs...


Is it under warranty? WD is good about replacements.

Fred


----------



## Rich

RunnerFL said:


> Nope, at least not when I've been here to hear it.


You'd hear it. My Seagate 1.5TBs all chattered constantly. They must have fixed them. Good to know.

Rich


----------



## Rich

sticketfan said:


> Will the wd 1 tb my dvr expander work with a hr24-500? I had the previous wd my dvr model hooked to it and it died after 2 yrs...


Probably, kinda hard to tell about which external devices will work with the 500s. I had a terrible time getting my one leased 500 to recognize an external device. Perhaps they've fixed that issue.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Volman said:


> Is it under warranty? WD is good about replacements.
> 
> Fred


True Fred, but they only have a two year warranty and unless you have the receipt they go by the build date that they determine from the serial number. I just got an EARX in exchange for an EARS that I could not get any HR to recognize. It was a very simple process.

Rich


----------



## RunnerFL

Rich said:


> You'd hear it. My Seagate 1.5TBs all chattered constantly. They must have fixed them. Good to know.
> 
> Rich


I have tons of Seagates around here either in my DVRs or my home media servers. I've never heard any of them chatter unless they were dying.


----------



## Rich

P Smith said:


> Any drive could die ANY time.
> 
> You never know, and no one know how long the particular drive will lasts.


Yup, same as electrical motors. We had motors that were installed in 1936 that still worked and others that would last a week after installation. Kinda like it is with people, you just never know...

Rich


----------



## Rich

RunnerFL said:


> I have tons of Seagates around here either in my DVRs or my home media servers. I've never heard any of them chatter unless they were dying.


Every one I put in a 20-700 chattered after one NR came down and they never stopped. That's why I switched to WDs. I sent a few of them to *P Smith*, still worked well, I think. Just had no use for 1.5 drives anymore once the price of the 2TB models dropped. Before that particular NR downloaded, I didn't hear anything from them. I still think it was caused by the 20-700s and that download.

Rich


----------



## P Smith

Only one survived, I keep it on a shelf to future research of creating good method of copy particular shows, not whole partition ...


----------



## Rich

P Smith said:


> Only one survived, I keep it on a shelf to future research of creating good method of copy particular shows, not whole partition ...


Huh. Thought some of them would have been good. Maybe all that chattering was a call for help... :lol:

Rich


----------



## P Smith

These deceased are got full table of bad sectors and pending relocation been stalled, adding to that many more bad sectors. Perhaps that chatting was defined by constant multiple attempts do re-assigning.


----------



## Bruce M.

Well, that happy story was short-lived. After a few more reboots caused by a freezing DVR, the external drive is no longer recognized by the 24-500. Bummer. I'm beginning to think maybe it's the receiver, because these "freezes" have been happening repeatedly over the last few weeks. Maybe it is just going bad....


----------



## P Smith

Bruce M. said:


> Well, that happy story was short-lived. After a few more reboots caused by a freezing DVR, the external drive is no longer recognized by the 24-500. Bummer. I'm beginning to think maybe it's the receiver, because these "freezes" have been happening repeatedly over the last few weeks. Maybe it is just going bad....


Did you test the external drive itself and enclosure as it was mentioned here ?
MHDD, Victoria, SMART ?


----------



## tictok

Does anyone know the max size disk the HR34 on the NR will recognize/ support? Thanks in advance!


----------



## P Smith

2 TB.


----------



## fyredawg

Hello everyone,

I've been searching the forum for a week or so now by using the the search tool and "googling' my topic after just becoming aware of using a EHD on my Dtv hr22. Ya I am behind the power curve by a lot lol.

I have read that a WD My Book WDBABT0010HBK-NESN will not work but the My DVR Expander WDG1S1000 will. Unfortunately they don't seem to exist. I have however found two on ebay for near what a My Book AV WDBABT0010 does.

Is the My book AV the same as the -NESN model? If not do you know if it will be compatible with my hr22?

I am sorry for bumping an old topic thread I know how some despise newbs doing this because they are lazy. Any info would be greatly appreciated Dan


----------



## CCarncross

Order one of these:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153071

And if you want 1TB one of these:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136941

or 2TB one of these:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136783

Takes 15 minutes to install.


----------



## fyredawg

^Thanks for the response. OK I should build one. Any particular reason to use the ThermalTake other than keeping it cooler increasing longevity of the drive? I'd like to protect the drive better(3 yo daughter) and a lil more appealing to the eye. Maybe this one?

NewEgg Product #N82E16817816007

Sorry can't link "You are only allowed to post URLs once you have at least 5 posts" :nono:


----------



## P Smith

many reasons to use TT: read Rich's numerous posts here and in similar threads (I'm expect Rich will be happy to post it again and again, but please have mercy on him )


----------



## fyredawg

Most definately the info here is remarkable and a bit daunting for one just starting. I have been re-reading both this and eSATA FAQs and have not come to that info. I did find info pertaining to the Antec mx-1. I found it online for $42. Looks like I may go with this and the WD 3.5 sata 2tb he suggested. I'm just not done reading yet so it may change. Thanks again


----------



## fyredawg

Rich I'm just going to ask instead of " torturing" myself any longer. After re-reading a good portion of this thread...I have have come to the conclusion that the WS20EURS with either the MX-1 or ThermalTake is the setup I need for my HR22-100. Correct?


----------



## inkahauts

"fyredawg" said:


> Rich I'm just going to ask instead of " torturing" myself any longer. After re-reading a good portion of this thread...I have have come to the conclusion that the WS20EURS with either the MX-1 or ThermalTake is the setup I need for my HR22-100. Correct?


Yes that's by far the most often used setups.


----------



## fyredawg

Thank you sir! I really appreciate the quick responses and not beating up a newb as some other boards do. This site is amazing! I only wish had found it sooner. Dan


----------



## CCarncross

inkahauts said:


> Yes that's by far the most often used setups.


+1

Those combos have proven to be very reliable over the last few years for many of us. As technology progresses, we occasionally need to recommend new drive models, but the MX-1's and TT BlacX enclosures are both still available.


----------



## fyredawg

Exactly there are definately a lot of changes in product model numbers since the OP. This is why I asked about the WD my book av not knowing if it was next gen my book or dvr expander. Seeing how the WD dvr expander was on the D* list. My thinking was the my book av replaced the expander. But after reading (again & again) I understand why what you suggested is a better setup..cost effectiveness..cooling..ease of assembly..1tb vs 2tb. Please don't ever stop sharing the info and knowledge you all have. There are lots of dolts like me out there. What may seem simple to some is mind boggling to others. Thanks again Dan


----------



## rsblaski

For the ultimate in simplicity, go with the Thermaltake. Inserting the drive is exactly like putting bread in a toaster. The Antec takes more effort and the fan is something that could possibly (although not likely) fail.


----------



## CCarncross

rsblaski said:


> For the ultimate in simplicity, go with the Thermaltake. Inserting the drive is exactly like putting bread in a toaster. The Antec takes more effort and the fan is something that could possibly (although not likely) fail.


Good advice, I will add though that the drives mounted in the Antec MX-1's actually run almost cool to the touch, whereas the drives mounted in the TT docks do run warm. But moving parts do fail eventually, anyone with a pc knows that occasionally you need to replace a case fan.


----------



## gvlral

For what it's worth, I thought I would let anyone interested know that the Thermaltake BlacX ST0005U with a WD Caviar Black WDBAAZ0010HNC-NRSN is up an working. I formated it before use with MBR. When I first pluged it in the HR34 didn't see it, however, after repeating the start up seq. as posted by DTV the DVR attached the new drive:grin:. I have taken the drive down and attached it to my PC to see if any thing changed. The answer was yes as the PC attached the drive but wouldn't show that it was there in the Windows Explorer tree. I then used a partition/management software and it showed up as *other with an unrecognized format. So not being a guru I have ass-u-me-d:nono: that it has set up an encryption on the drive. I re-attached the drive without any changes and it is working fine.


----------



## fyredawg

"CCarncross" said:


> Good advice, I will add though that the drives mounted in the Antec MX-1's actually run almost cool to the touch, whereas the drives mounted in the TT docks do run warm. But moving parts do fail eventually, anyone with a pc knows that occasionally you need to replace a case fan.


I like the fact that the MX-1 is fully enclosed to protect the drive. The lid slides easily to gain access and if you don't screw the drive down it slides in and out just the same. I found a video of a guy who does this to use multiple drives in one enclosure. As for the fan if it fails....I'll take the lid off.


----------



## P Smith

gvlral said:


> For what it's worth, I thought I would let anyone interested know that the Thermaltake BlacX ST0005U with a WD Caviar Black WDBAAZ0010HNC-NRSN is up an working. I formated it before use with MBR. When I first pluged it in the HR34 didn't see it, however, after repeating the start up seq. as posted by DTV the DVR attached the new drive:grin:. I have taken the drive down and attached it to my PC to see if any thing changed. The answer was yes as the PC attached the drive but wouldn't show that it was there in the Windows Explorer tree. I then used a partition/management software and it showed up as *other with an unrecognized format. So not being a guru I have ass-u-me-d:nono: that it has set up an encryption on the drive. I re-attached the drive without any changes and it is working fine.


We have tons of info include what file system the DVR does employ. Take your time, be familiar with the knowledge.


Spoiler



files system is XFS, not encrypted, but recording's content does


----------



## RunnerFL

P Smith said:


> files system is EXT3+XFS, not encrypted, but recording's content does
> [/spoiler]


Incorrect, you can't have both EXT3 and XFS. They are both their own file system and you get one or the other.

Saying it's EXT3+XFS would be like saying it's FAT+NTFS.


----------



## inkahauts

"gvlral" said:


> For what it's worth, I thought I would let anyone interested know that the Thermaltake BlacX ST0005U with a WD Caviar Black WDBAAZ0010HNC-NRSN is up an working. I formated it before use with MBR. When I first pluged it in the HR34 didn't see it, however, after repeating the start up seq. as posted by DTV the DVR attached the new drive:grin:. I have taken the drive down and attached it to my PC to see if any thing changed. The answer was yes as the PC attached the drive but wouldn't show that it was there in the Windows Explorer tree. I then used a partition/management software and it showed up as *other with an unrecognized format. So not being a guru I have ass-u-me-d:nono: that it has set up an encryption on the drive. I re-attached the drive without any changes and it is working fine.


Yeah, you don't want to format the drive, the DirecTV hr does it for you. I believe it's a Linux system and formats its own partitions for its use in the sizes it wants, which you can't do.


----------



## RunnerFL

P Smith said:


> Take a break, learn a little, get the drive connected to your PC and do a favor - look inside it before post BS.


I've connected several to a PC after they've been partitioned and formatted. You don't have to do that to know they can't be both EXT3 and XFS at the same time. They are two completely different file systems and a partition cannot be both at the same time.


----------



## RunnerFL

P Smith said:


> OK. I would say that little different (just for you) its' a EXT3 type of partition with RTDEV extension what is formatted as XFS.


I'm not going to argue with you, clearly you feel you know everything and argue with everyone about it. Both partitions are XFS though. EXT3 is not a partition type, it's a filesystem type. The type for both partitions is 83 (LINUX).

Since you can't seem to ever do your own work and always ask others to do your testing for you here's your info:

*Partitions - As you can see the partition type is 83*
Disk /dev/sdb: 1500.3 GB, 1500301910016 bytes
164 heads, 34 sectors/track, 525515 cylinders, total 2930277168 sectors
Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disk identifier: 0x00000000

Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
/dev/sdb1 40 1053863 526912 82 Linux swap / Solaris
/dev/sdb2 1053864 32513655 15729896 83 Linux
/dev/sdb3 32513656 2930271639 1448878992 83 Linux

*And using cfdisk shows you the filesystem type of the main partition (2) and 3 is the realtime partition which is also XFS.*

Disk Drive: /dev/sdb
Size: 1500301910016 bytes, 1500.3 GB
Heads: 164 Sectors per Track: 34 Cylinders: 525515

Name Flags Part Type FS Type [Label] Size (MB)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Pri/Log Free Space 0.03 *
sdb1 Primary swap 539.56 *
sdb2 Primary xfs 16107.42
sdb3 Primary Linux 1483652.09
Pri/Log Free Space 2.84 *

There's the facts, do with them what you will but there is NO ext3 partition.


----------



## RunnerFL

P Smith said:


> Final word for you - mount it and bring here output from fdisk. Enough of bickering with empty wording. Isn't that value what you brought to the thread ?
> Show facts ! I posted enough long before you.


I already posted the facts in plain old black and white, read my last post. There's no "empty wording", whatever that means, just facts.


----------



## RunnerFL

P Smith said:


> some ppl just can't comprehend partition scheme and file system difference and coexistence facts


You can stop your personal attacks now. Clearly it's you that doesn't understand what you're looking at.



P Smith said:


> Here is partitions of HR20-700 external 1.5TB drive.


I already provided you with the partition layout of a 1.5TB drive in Linux using both fdisk and cfdisk in an earlier post, please refer to that.



P Smith said:


> And EXT2 manager for windows' picture of same drive.


Anyone that knows anything about Linux partitions knows you don't use Windows to look at them. What you pointed out was a RAW partition of type 83. I already pointed out that the partitions are Type 83. EXT3 is NOT a partition type, it is a filesystem type. Windows shows "RAW" because it has no idea what XFS is. If you were to look at it in Linux, which I provided a copy/paste of, in cfdisk you can clearly see it says "xfs". The larger partition is a realtime xfs partition. You cannot have a main partition of one filesystem type that has a realtime partition of another, you just can't!

Again, EXT3 is NOT a parition type. EXT3 is a filesystem type!

Here is a list of partition types:

http://www.win.tue.nl/~aeb/partitions/partition_types-1.html

There is NO partition type "EXT3". EXT3 is a filesystem type that you can use on a partition that is a type 83 partition.

If you take the time to look at the link provided instead of just assuming you can't be wrong you'll see that for partition type 83 it says:

"Linux is a Unix-like operating system written by Linus Torvalds and many others on the internet since Fall 1991. It runs on PCs (386 and up) and a variety of other hardware. It is distributed under GPL. Software can be found numerous places, like ftp.funet.fi, metalab.unc.edu and tsx-11.mit.edu. See also comp.os.linux.* and http://www.linux.org/. Various *filesystem types* like xiafs, ext2, *ext3*, reiserfs, etc. all use ID 83. *Some systems mistakenly assume that 83 must mean ext2*."

In summary....

1. There are 3 partitions on the drive. 1 swap partition (type 82 Linux Swap) and 2 data partitions (type 83 Linux).

2. EXT3 is NOT a parition type, it is a filesystem type.

3. The filesystem type on the 2 data partitions is XFS.

4. There is NO ext3 formatted partition on the device.

Working with Linux is NOT a hobby for me. If I didn't know all this stuff I'd have lost my job long ago.

EDIT: Further proof that the partitions are XFS. When you mount the disk to copy the contents to a new disk you use the following:

mount -t xfs -o rtdev=/dev/sdb3 /dev/sdb2 /mnt/HR

Right here you're telling the system what filesystem type you want to use (-t). You'll see that you're telling it to use "xfs" for both partitions. You can't mount an ext3 filesystem by telling the system to mount it as xfs, you just can't.


----------



## P Smith

OK. I'm agree: it is XFS file system with partition type 83. Going back to my posts and correct.


----------



## SomeRandomIdiot

P Smith said:


> Only one survived, I keep it on a shelf to future research of creating good method of copy particular shows, not whole partition ...


How did that work out?


----------



## P Smith

SomeRandomIdiot said:


> How did that work out?


Mothballed for future research. Other challenges taking my free times.

As to that last physical drive, it's gone too, nothing left from Rich's batch. But I made a copy of its content to new HDD before 'last kiss goodbye'.


----------



## wco81

Found this article:

http://hdguru.com/directv-thr22-hd-tivo-with-external-2tb-hard-drive-review/8056/

So thinking of picking up the WD drive cited there but with this enclosure, because its USB 3 instead of the USB 2 in the model they used:

http://www.amazon.com/Rosewill-RX-3...id=1349039565&sr=1-2&keywords=rosewill+rx-358

Any experiences with these models?


----------



## P Smith

wco81 said:


> Found this article:
> 
> http://hdguru.com/directv-thr22-hd-tivo-with-external-2tb-hard-drive-review/8056/
> 
> So thinking of picking up the WD drive cited there but with this enclosure, because its USB 3 instead of the USB 2 in the model they used:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Rosewill-RX-3...id=1349039565&sr=1-2&keywords=rosewill+rx-358
> 
> Any experiences with these models?


They are jussst bunch of liars: "_With no guide found anywhere on the Internet as to which make and model drive works with the THR22_" when wrote it. 
Here, at the site, we have a lot of info about external drives for HR22 or it's 'brother' THR22.


----------



## inkahauts

"wco81" said:


> Found this article:
> 
> http://hdguru.com/directv-thr22-hd-tivo-with-external-2tb-hard-drive-review/8056/
> 
> So thinking of picking up the WD drive cited there but with this enclosure, because its USB 3 instead of the USB 2 in the model they used:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Rosewill-RX-358-U3C-BLK-Enclosure/dp/B005KGNXTE/ref=sr_1_2?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1349039565&sr=1-2&keywords=rosewill+rx-358
> 
> Any experiences with these models?


The DirecTV boxes (including the TiVo one) only work with esata so anything to do with USB is meaningless, unless your thinking if usin it with something other than a receiver someday after you retire the DirecTV box.


----------



## wco81

That's my thinking, flexibility to use the enclosure for other uses. Main concern is that I tried an eSata enclosure with probably a slow drive and it stuttered badly on HR20.

I may not stay with D* or else I would look for an upgrade to a newer box.

Just wondering if a newer enclosure with USB 3 is going to have probs being fast enough.


----------



## inkahauts

"wco81" said:


> That's my thinking, flexibility to use the enclosure for other uses. Main concern is that I tried an eSata enclosure with probably a slow drive and it stuttered badly on HR20.
> 
> I may not stay with D* or else I would look for an upgrade to a newer box.
> 
> Just wondering if a newer enclosure with USB 3 is going to have probs being fast enough.


Usb2.0 is plenty fast enough no to mention data is too and the only use 1.5. Your issue was likely drive type previously. The drive the article mentions is excellent as I use several of them.


----------



## DaveThreshold

I've been reading this thread. It has been extremely helpful!  Time to expand to an external HD for my HR22-100 box. I have had a Fantom 1TB for ages on my regular computer, so I figured THIS Phantom 2TB might work. Can anybody tell me if it will? It is the GDP2000EU.
ETA: It has the eSATA, and USB 2 ports.

I guess I can't post the URL yet.


----------



## CCarncross

Fantom makes/models have never been well received here....I highly suggest you go with one of the recommended Westerndigitals and either the Antec MX-1 or Thermaltake BlacX


----------



## DaveThreshold

CCarncross said:


> Fantom makes/models have never been well received here....I highly suggest you go with one of the recommended Westerndigitals and either the Antec MX-1 or Thermaltake BlacX


Great. Thank you CC. That is a big help. It seems like DTV and everybody is so consumed with copy-guard, and copy-write that they make it really difficult in a case like this.

I do commend DTV though for offering the eSATA input. I wish they would include rudimentary editing software for their units also. My NORMAL setup is Win Mediacenter and I use video redo to take out commercials. (Only good for over the air of course) I can save hundreds of commercial free shows on any drive that I want.


----------



## P Smith

DaveThreshold said:


> Great. Thank you CC. That is a big help. It seems like DTV and everybody is so consumed with copy-guard, and copy-write that they make it really difficult in a case like this.
> 
> I do commend DTV though for offering the eSATA input. I wish they would include rudimentary editing software for their units also. My NORMAL setup is Win Mediacenter and I use video redo to take out commercials. (*Only good for over the air of course*) I can save hundreds of commercial free shows on any drive that I want.


Why you not bought Hauppage card with component input and do same for any show what your Hx or HRxx can play ?


----------



## wco81

Anyone try anything like this?

http://www.amazon.com/BYTECC-SuperSpeed-eSATA-3Gbs-Adapter/dp/B003EMJ34U

USB 3 drives seem more common than eSata so if these adapters may be one solution.


----------



## Rich

wco81 said:


> Anyone try anything like this?
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/BYTECC-SuperSpeed-eSATA-3Gbs-Adapter/dp/B003EMJ34U
> 
> USB 3 drives seem more common than eSata so if these adapters may be one solution.


Better to stick with what we know works. Follow *CCarncross'* advice and you'll be happy.

Rich


----------



## CCarncross

wco81 said:


> Anyone try anything like this?
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/BYTECC-SuperSpeed-eSATA-3Gbs-Adapter/dp/B003EMJ34U
> 
> USB 3 drives seem more common than eSata so if these adapters may be one solution.


If you're just looking at buying some off the shelf crap, yes, most you see are USB2/3 drives. Remember that this is for your DVR, it spins pretty much 24/7, are you really thinking that just adding some portable usb drive is the way to go? you really need to consider one of these a permanent piece of your dvr until you cancel the service.....

For example, pick your drive:

http://www.newegg.com/Store/SubCategory.aspx?SubCategory=14&name=Internal-Hard-Drives

Pick your enclosure:

http://www.newegg.com/Store/SubCategory.aspx?SubCategory=92&name=External-Enclosures

A few of the off the shelf plug and pray solutions were popular, but most of those have been taken out of service, like the Calvary FAP, and EXtremes...you can't go wrong with what was recommended above.


----------



## Diana C

CCarncross said:


> If you're just looking at buying some off the shelf crap, yes, most you see are USB2/3 drives. Remember that this is for your DVR, it spins pretty much 24/7, are you really thinking that just adding some portable usb drive is the way to go? you really need to consider one of these a permanent piece of your dvr until you cancel the service....


I strongly agree with this. My first DVR upgrade drive was a "plain vanilla" 750GB Seagate...it failed after about 10 months (it's warranty replacement has been attached to my laptop for the last 3 years). Since then I have only used "AV" drives (designed for DVR use) and just had my first failure of such a drive, and that was caused by it being knocked off a shelf while operating, not by wear and tear.


----------



## DaveThreshold

Thank you for all of your answers! 
I think the problem we have is that it is not any normal type of computer, and the interface or the box itself will be very finicky. In my HT computer, (Win media Center 64/32) I have lost count of the TB I’m using. I have an Asus P6T Deluxe Ver 2 Mobo which has 6 built in Sata outlets. I now have 3 other drives that are full, and not even hooked up. I have the left cover off of the comp, and I just run the regular Sata wires out of the side. I was using older WD 5,400 rpm drives, then I got spoiled when I bought a Hitachi 2 TB 7,200. NOW when needed, I am buying the Seagate Barracuda 3000 drives. - Seagate Barracuda ST3000DM001 - (For media center recording) They have 7,200 RPM, 3 TB, and are very fast for moving, say, 10 recorded TV shows around. My SS drive clocks in at about 200 MBS, and the Seagates clock in at about 160 MBS for actual file moving (at first.) One reason is that with the 3TB, they are only using THREE platters – just under a TB per platter. With the other drives, rarely, I would get a video stutter, which was playback only, while recording 3-4 shows and watching one. – Very demanding. With the Seagate, I NEVER get that anymore.

I’ll see if the 2TB versions are on the list. I hope my running on a bit will help people select drives for other things. For editing, I’m using VideReDo. It has a HUGE window to analyze what you are working on. It’s too bad that the DTV boxes do not have basic editing. So, as an example I have the entire Series of Criminal minds, now commercial free, and beautiful HD. The 1st 6 seasons, edited, take up 403 GB.


----------



## gvlral

I have recorded a few football games that I recorded to a 1TB WD drive that I attach to my HR34 and I would like to watch them on my PC. Are you guys saying that I can do this? I thought you have to re-attach the drive to the same DVR to watch these recordings which is a pain.


----------



## RunnerFL

gvlral said:


> I have recorded a few football games that I recorded to a 1TB WD drive that I attach to my HR34 and I would like to watch them on my PC. Are you guys saying that I can do this? I thought you have to re-attach the drive to the same DVR to watch these recordings which is a pain.


You can only watch the recordings on the DVR that recorded them. The only option you'd have to watch them on a PC is to buy a capture card/device and capture them on your PC.


----------



## harsh

gvlral said:


> I thought you have to re-attach the drive to the same DVR to watch these recordings which is a pain.


This is precisely how it works.

The disc format used is not widely supported on Windows or Mac computers and the content is encrypted.


----------



## GhostHeel

CCarncross said:


> I highly suggest you go with one of the recommended Westerndigitals and either the Antec MX-1 or Thermaltake BlacX


Just got two brand new HR-24s and used the recommended 2TB WD and Thermaltake dock setup on both DVRs and cant be happier.


----------



## Gary Toma

I have had great luck with Seagate 1 TB and 2 TB drives. In my (limited) experience, it appears the Thermaltake BlacX is the key. Whatever interface it presents, the HR21 and HR34 both seem instantly happy with it.

The data is not encrypted. Run the Ubuntu OS (run from a disk, you don't need to touch your current Windows OS). Use the Thermaltake USB interface then, to attach the eSATA drive to your computer. Running Ubuntu or any Linux variation, you'll be able to read the files on the HDD just fine.

Edit Clarification: you will be able to read a range of various files on the DVR eSATA drive. But you will not be able to watch the recordings that are there. All the posts that say you can only 'play' the recordings on the specific DVR that recorded them - those posts are absolutely correct.


----------



## harsh

gct said:


> The data is not encrypted.





> Edit Clarification: you will be able to read a range of various files on the DVR eSATA drive. But you will not be able to watch the recordings that are there. All the posts that say you can only 'play' the recordings on the specific DVR that recorded them - those posts are absolutely correct.


This is because the data is, in fact, encrypted.


----------



## P Smith

harsh said:


> This is because the data is, in fact, encrypted.


That's because you deliberately don't make distinguish between other files and recording [video/audio] files.

A fact is you never seen the file system and never did mount/navigate a DTV DVR's drive in Ubuntu, etc.


----------



## CCarncross

gct said:


> I have had great luck with Seagate 1 TB and 2 TB drives. In my (limited) experience, it appears the Thermaltake BlacX is the key. Whatever interface it presents, the HR21 and HR34 both seem instantly happy with it.
> 
> The data is not encrypted. Run the Ubuntu OS (run from a disk, you don't need to touch your current Windows OS). Use the Thermaltake USB interface then, to attach the eSATA drive to your computer. Running Ubuntu or any Linux variation, you'll be able to read the files on the HDD just fine.
> 
> Edit Clarification: you will be able to read a range of various files on the DVR eSATA drive. But you will not be able to watch the recordings that are there. *All the posts that say you can only 'play' the recordings on the specific DVR that recorded them - those posts are absolutely correct.*


tomato, tomaato....The data on the disk is pretty useless without the dvr that recorded it, the actual specifics are pretty much equally as useless. If the DVR dies, you might as well go ahead and smash the drive, because you ain't gonna watch those shows no mo'. Of course, you can re-use the drive on your new dvr....

Why do you knuckleheads(not you gct) have to argue about every stupid little thing? P Smith, for the extent of this discussion, what I've bolded above is really all that matters


----------



## P Smith

That's because of you, knucklehead, side with stupid sentences what are far away from real technical process/solutions. Or try to make a mess in one mesh potato dish. And pay no attention to details of following posts nor get into context of threading. 

To you, if you so technically impaired, all the "little things" is DEFINE the functionality of DVR or any device. Get real. It's not your cup of tea if you don't see the DIFFERENCE, please refrain from posting your personal very limited level of technical knowledge.


----------



## harsh

CCarncross said:


> tomato, tomaato....The data on the disk is pretty useless without the dvr that recorded it, the actual specifics are pretty much equally as useless.


The specifics are only useless if they cannot lead to an better understanding of whether or not the content is portable given changes to the DVR software.

To say that playing content recorded on another DVR is obviously (and for all time) impossible is very shortsighted if all you know is that it isn't currently supported.


----------



## Bruce M.

GhostHeel said:


> Just got two brand new HR-24s and used the recommended 2TB WD and Thermaltake dock setup on both DVRs and cant be happier.


What kind of HR 24, if I may ask?


----------



## Rich

harsh said:


> The specifics are only useless if they cannot lead to an better understanding of whether or not the content is portable given changes to the DVR software.
> 
> To say that playing content recorded on another DVR is obviously (and for all time) impossible is very shortsighted if all you know is that it isn't currently supported.


So many things in my lifetime have been "impossible", can't break the speed of sound, can't break the 4 minute mile, can't transplant organs, can't go to the moon, can't, can't, can't. Yet, it seems that anything we can imagine, we can do. Can't clone a human being? That's gotta be harder than allowing us to swap HDDs within an account, right? Just watch what happens over the next few years. If it hasn't happened already. I don't like the "can't" model.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Bruce M. said:


> What kind of HR 24, if I may ask?


I've tried all 3 models of 24s with that setup and they all work very well.

Rich


----------



## Bruce M.

Rich said:


> I've tried all 3 models of 24s with that setup and they all work very well.
> 
> Rich


I'm confused. External drives with an HR24-500 work well? We had a colloquy a few weeks back in which I thought I understood you to say the opposite? Even with a Thermaltake enclosure.....


----------



## Rich

Bruce M. said:


> I'm confused. External drives with an HR24-500 work well? We had a colloquy a few weeks back in which I thought I understood you to say the opposite? Even with a Thermaltake enclosure.....


You're right, sorry. I have had problems with the 24-500s and external drives. Don't know what I was thinking when I posted that. Befuddled I am, at times... :lol:

Rich


----------



## rb5505

the wd20earx is currently at $99.

now $89.

http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digit...04VFJ9MK/ref=dp_ob_title_ce?tag=5336432741-20


----------



## Rich

rb5505 said:


> the wd20earx is currently at $99.
> 
> now $89.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digit...04VFJ9MK/ref=dp_ob_title_ce?tag=5336432741-20


Of course it is. I paid $128 for the last one I bought a couple months ago. Just my luck.

Rich


----------



## rb5505

Rich said:


> Of course it is. I paid $128 for the last one I bought a couple months ago. Just my luck.
> 
> Rich


just to be sure, does the wd20earx drive with a Thermaltake BlacX ST0005U work with a hr24-100?


----------



## Drew2k

Well, my original HR24 drive crashed, so I ordered a 2TB WD20EURS drive from Amazon and it gets here tomorrow. I'm going to attempt my first dive on replacing a DIRECTV drive ...


----------



## Rich

rb5505 said:


> just to be sure, does the wd20earx drive with a Thermaltake BlacX ST0005U work with a hr24-100?


Works on my 24-100. The only 24 you might have problems with when installing an external drive is the 24-500. They are kinda picky about what you put on them. I've had problems with both the TT docks and the MX-1s. Not to say you can't get one working on a 500, but you might have problems with it.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Drew2k said:


> Well, my original HR24 drive crashed, so I ordered a 2TB WD20EURS drive from Amazon and it gets here tomorrow. I'm going to attempt my first dive on replacing a DIRECTV drive ...


Uh oh. Which model is it? The 500s are easy, the 100s are more complicated and the 200s are really difficult if you don't want to use the ty-wrap method.

Rich


----------



## Drew2k

Rich said:


> Uh oh. Which model is it? The 500s are easy, the 100s are more complicated and the 200s are really difficult if you don't want to use the ty-wrap method.
> 
> Rich


The 500, and you're right- it's very easy to get to the drive. I've got the cover off but I've been swamped today so I haven't done anything yet, but I'm going to try to do a disk scan/repair on the bad drive on my PC and if it can fix anything, see if I can copy the recordings to the new 2TB drive. I have so much stuff to do in the meantime, so I'm not sure when I'm going to get to it...


----------



## Rich

Drew2k said:


> The 500, and you're right- it's very easy to get to the drive. I've got the cover off but I've been swamped today so I haven't done anything yet, but I'm going to try to do a disk scan/repair on the bad drive on my PC and if it can fix anything, see if I can copy the recordings to the new 2TB drive. I have so much stuff to do in the meantime, so I'm not sure when I'm going to get to it...


I've never tried to copy content, have so many HRs I've got multiple backups of everything. Be interesting to see how you make out. I gotta do that one of these days.

Rich


----------



## inkahauts

"Rich" said:


> I've never tried to copy content, have so many HRs I've got multiple backups of everything. Be interesting to see how you make out. I gotta do that one of these days.
> 
> Rich


I did it not to long ago, actually went to a smaller drive one of my units. (Long story). And it worked great. I will say you have to follow the right instructions and use the right glared to make it easy though.


----------



## mocarob

Drew2k said:


> The 500, and you're right- it's very easy to get to the drive. I've got the cover off but I've been swamped today so I haven't done anything yet, but I'm going to try to do a disk scan/repair on the bad drive on my PC and if it can fix anything, see if I can copy the recordings to the new 2TB drive. I have so much stuff to do in the meantime, so I'm not sure when I'm going to get to it...


What tools will you be using to scan/repair your drive?
How did it crash?


----------



## P Smith

See that 'Copy ..." threads: xfstools


----------



## Rich

inkahauts said:


> I did it not to long ago, actually went to a smaller drive one of my units. (Long story). And it worked great. I will say you have to follow the right instructions and use the right *glared* to make it easy though.


Don't understand???

Rich


----------



## Drew2k

Rich said:


> I've never tried to copy content, have so many HRs I've got multiple backups of everything. Be interesting to see how you make out. I gotta do that one of these days.
> 
> Rich


It ended up just being a drive swap, putting the new 2TB WD20EURS drived into my owned HR24-500. After restarting it only took a minute or two to format the drive after recognized new storage was found. I couldn't do the copy because ...



mocarob said:


> What tools will you be using to scan/repair your drive?
> How did it crash?


I had to reboot my HR24-500 last Monday night and after restarting it took almost 45 minutes to get back to live TV, sitting at running receiver self-check for a long time. I decided to restart to see if it would repeat, and at that point it reported an internal storage error was detected, but then it froze and would not respond to remote commands or front-panel buttons. I had to leave it powered down for over 10 hours and then restarted and it went to the disk scan automatically, but found so many errors (rolling up and over 65K, returning to 0, and repeating) that I finally just pulled the plug.

In my case the original internal drive was a Seagate Pipeline HD.2, so I installed Seatools on my PC and tried to scan and repair it there, but it failed the Basic and Long Tests, and when repair started, came back that too many bad sectors were found. The drive was toast.

So I lost what was on the DVR, but now I've got 4x the storage I had before and it's just waiting for me to fill it up with recordings...


----------



## inkahauts

Rich said:


> Don't understand???
> 
> Rich


Darn auto correct. I meant Gparted.

I used this thread...

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=167440

This post is important for sure..

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2260388#post2260388

and this is the post with the details on the hard part. (to me, I never have sued linux in my life)

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2260390#post2260390

That is exactly what I used and it worked great. The key was to use gparted 0.3.7.7 Newer versions don't work as well, you have to do more stuff, so I just used that old version and it was easy. Just make sure you pay attention to all the spaces in the commands.

The old posts are still perfect for today.


----------



## Rich

Drew2k said:


> It ended up just being a drive swap, putting the new 2TB WD20EURS drived into my owned HR24-500. After restarting it only took a minute or two to format the drive after recognized new storage was found. I couldn't do the copy because ...
> 
> I had to reboot my HR24-500 last Monday night and after restarting it took almost 45 minutes to get back to live TV, sitting at running receiver self-check for a long time. I decided to restart to see if it would repeat, and at that point it reported an internal storage error was detected, but then it froze and would not respond to remote commands or front-panel buttons. I had to leave it powered down for over 10 hours and then restarted and it went to the disk scan automatically, but found so many errors (rolling up and over 65K, returning to 0, and repeating) that I finally just pulled the plug.
> 
> In my case the original internal drive was a Seagate Pipeline HD.2, so I installed Seatools on my PC and tried to scan and repair it there, but it failed the Basic and Long Tests, and when repair started, came back that too many bad sectors were found. The drive was toast.
> 
> So I lost what was on the DVR, but now I've got 4x the storage I had before and it's just waiting for me to fill it up with recordings...


Make sure you save that bad Pipeline.

Rich


----------



## Rich

inkahauts said:


> Darn auto correct. I meant Gparted.
> 
> I used this thread...
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=167440
> 
> This post is important for sure..
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2260388#post2260388
> 
> and this is the post with the details on the hard part. (to me, I never have sued linux in my life)
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2260390#post2260390
> 
> That is exactly what I used and it worked great. The key was to use gparted 0.3.7.7 Newer versions don't work as well, you have to do more stuff, so I just used that old version and it was easy. Just make sure you pay attention to all the spaces in the commands.
> 
> The old posts are still perfect for today.


Got it, thanx. I tried so many ways to make a word out of "glared" that made sense in the context of the post, I damn went blind... :lol:

Rich


----------



## Drew2k

Rich said:


> Make sure you save that bad Pipeline.
> 
> Rich


I do still have it, but I'm curious ... what would I do with it?


----------



## P Smith

When its time come to return it; would you give the 2 TB 'gift' to someone ? Or (I think) to that tech who doing referb process at DTV facility ?


----------



## Drew2k

P Smith said:


> When its time come to return it; would you give the 2 TB 'gift' to someone ? Or (I think) to that tech who doing referb process at DTV facility ?


I own the HR24, so it's not being returned. If I ever sell it or give it away, they wouldn't get my 2TB drive, but I certainly wouldn't pass of a dead drive to the new owner.


----------



## Rich

Drew2k said:


> I do still have it, but I'm curious ... what would I do with it?


If you have to send the 24-500 back for some reason you stick it back in the box. Or send them an HR with a 2TB drive.... :lol:

Rich


----------



## Rich

P Smith said:


> When its time come to return it; would you give the 2 TB 'gift' to someone ? Or (I think) to that tech who doing referb process at DTV facility ?


I'd bet they'd never find that 2TB drive.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Drew2k said:


> I own the HR24, so it's not being returned. If I ever sell it or give it away, they wouldn't get my 2TB drive, but I certainly wouldn't pass of a dead drive to the new owner.


If something other than a bad HDD hits your 500, you can return it and get another owned 24. Sending it back without an HDD of some sort would be bad form... :lol:

Rich


----------



## Drew2k

Rich - I hadn't thought of a receiver swap under the protection plan, but yes, that would be a good reason to put the original (dead) drive back in it. :up:


----------



## eddiesudz

Has anyone tried one of these drives yet? They claim that this drive is built to withstand the rigors of 24/7 usage. Kinda makes sense since our boxes are constantly accessing the drive.


----------



## Rich

eddiesudz said:


> Has anyone tried one of these drives yet? They claim that this drive is built to withstand the rigors of 24/7 usage. Kinda makes sense since our boxes are constantly accessing the drive.


Nobody I know has tried them.

Rich


----------



## BAHitman

I am considering the WD RED for my next RAID setup...


----------



## gully_foyle

Could someone please edit the opening post to include things made in the last 3 years? Otherwise everyone has to wade through 90+ pages of "stuff" trying to find current models that work. It hasn't been updated since 2009.


----------



## Rich

eddiesudz said:


> Has anyone tried one of these drives yet? They claim that this drive is built to withstand the rigors of 24/7 usage. Kinda makes sense since our boxes are constantly accessing the drive.


Just looked at them on Amazon. Good price for a 2TB drive, but will the HRs work with a SATA III drive?

Rich


----------



## Rich

BAHitman said:


> I am considering the WD RED for my next RAID setup...


Just read the specs on the Red Caviars and the Green Caviars. The Red Caviars are definitely recommended for RAID setups and the Green Caviars are not recommended for RAIDs. I didn't know that.

Rich


----------



## Rich

gully_foyle said:


> Could someone please edit the opening post to include things made in the last 3 years? Otherwise everyone has to wade through 90+ pages of "stuff" trying to find current models that work. It hasn't been updated since 2009.


Should be done. But it is easy just to ask the question you want answered. Somebody will answer you. Personally, I wouldn't wade thru the whole thread to get an answer you can get very quickly by asking.

Rich


----------



## eddiesudz

I've got a WD Green 2tb in an Antec case. If I have a program that either has more than 25 programs in a folder or like the Olympics took up a lot of hours per program the DVR stutters on playback in the Whole House mode..... Wonder if it's the drive or how the DVR handles the files? Was thinking I needed a different drive thus prompting the inquiry on the "Red" version. Thanks!


----------



## eddiesudz

eddiesudz said:


> I've got a WD Green 2tb in an Antec case. If I have a program that either has more than 25 programs in a folder or like the Olympics took up a lot of hours per program the DVR stutters on playback in the Whole House mode..... Wonder if it's the drive or how the DVR handles the files? Was thinking I needed a different drive thus prompting the inquiry on the "Red" version. Thanks!


Should have also mentioned that the drive is not even at 1/2 capacity......


----------



## inkahauts

"eddiesudz" said:


> Should have also mentioned that the drive is not even at 1/2 capacity......


Stick to av drives.... DVRs are what they are made for.


----------



## Rich

eddiesudz said:


> Should have also mentioned that the drive is not even at 1/2 capacity......


If you're using the HR as a server it shouldn't stutter because of capacity. Mine don't. You might try a different external device such as the Thermaltake docking station. If that doesn't help, it might well be the HDD. The external devices that connect the HDD to the HR are the weakest links in the chain. The WD EURS is made specifically for DVRs and if the external device is not the cause of your problems, you might try one of the EURS drives to see if that solves your problem.

Rich


----------



## Xavier46

I was wondering if the following enclosure and drive setup would work as an external hard drive for a HR 24 receiver?

Rosewill RX35-AT-SC SLV Full Aluminum Cover, Metal Tray 3.5" Silver USB2.0 & eSATA External Enclosure

WD AV-GP 2 TB AV Hard Drive: 3.5 Inch, SATA II, 64 MB Cache - WD20EURS

Thank you for your responses and assistance for someone looking to do this for the first time


----------



## Rich

Xavier46 said:


> I was wondering if the following enclosure and drive setup would work as an external hard drive for a HR 24 receiver?
> 
> Rosewill RX35-AT-SC SLV Full Aluminum Cover, Metal Tray 3.5" Silver USB2.0 & eSATA External Enclosure
> 
> WD AV-GP 2 TB AV Hard Drive: 3.5 Inch, SATA II, 64 MB Cache - WD20EURS
> 
> Thank you for your responses and assistance for someone looking to do this for the first time


Yup, it should work. What model HR do you have? I would have gotten a TT docking station, but that's just my opinion based on using them. They're much easier to install, easy to return if something happens and are quite reliable. The Rosewill should work.

Rich


----------



## Losi b

I just left BB with a Seagate Backup Plus Pn:1DXAN3-570 model #STCA2000100 2T external drive that I would like to use with my HR34. Will this drive be compatible? I can swap it if there is a better drive, any suggestions?
Thank you in advance.
ps, I just didn't feel like reading 90 pages for an answer.


----------



## Rich

Losi b said:


> I just left BB with a Seagate Backup Plus Pn:1DXAN3-570 model #STCA2000100 2T external drive that I would like to use with my HR34. Will this drive be compatible? I can swap it if there is a better drive, any suggestions?
> Thank you in advance.
> ps, I just didn't feel like reading 90 pages for an answer.


Don't blame you for asking, I would not read any thread that long. We recommend the WD Green Caviars and the new Red Caviars for the HRs. We know they work in all the HRs. I'd go with one of them.

Rich


----------



## yosoyellobo

Which in closure would you recommend for it.


----------



## Rich

yosoyellobo said:


> Which in closure would you recommend for it.


If you want an enclosure, I'd go with the Antec MX-1. My weapon of choice is the Thermaltake docking station. No tools needed. You get everything you need. Go to Amazon or Newegg and check out the Thermaltake docks. Make sure you're looking for a TT BlackX docking station.

Rich


----------



## Losi b

Rich said:


> Don't blame you for asking, I would not read any thread that long. We recommend the WD Green Caviars and the new Red Caviars for the HRs. We know they work in all the HRs. I'd go with one of them.
> 
> Rich


Thank you very much Rich.


----------



## yosoyellobo

Rich said:


> If you want an enclosure, I'd go with the Antec MX-1. My weapon of choice is the Thermaltake docking station. No tools needed. You get everything you need. Go to Amazon or Newegg and check out the Thermaltake docks. Make sure you're looking for a TT BlackX docking station.
> 
> Rich


thanks


----------



## yosoyellobo

You would use the Antec MX-1 with the Thermaltake docking station or just one or the other?


----------



## Diana C

yosoyellobo said:


> You would use the Antec MX-1 with the Thermaltake docking station or just one or the other?


One or the other...the MX-1 is a fully enclosed case, with the drive inside. The Thermaltake is a dock - the bare drive is dropped into a slot, but remains exposed.


----------



## yosoyellobo

Thanks.


----------



## CCarncross

Just to add, the MX-1 is a fully enclosed case with a fan for cooling....the Thermaltake is just a dock that the drive plugs into vertically. The drives run much warmer in the docks, the trade-off is the fan in the MX-1 can make a little noise, but the drives run literally cool to the touch. Its a choice.


----------



## Rich

CCarncross said:


> Just to add, the MX-1 is a fully enclosed case with a fan for cooling....the Thermaltake is just a dock that the drive plugs into vertically. The drives run much warmer in the docks, the trade-off is the fan in the MX-1 can make a little noise, but the drives run literally cool to the touch. Its a choice.


So much better to buy what we know will work.

Rich


----------



## Losi b

Rich said:


> Don't blame you for asking, I would not read any thread that long. We recommend the WD Green Caviars and the new Red Caviars for the HRs. We know they work in all the HRs. I'd go with one of them.
> 
> Rich


I'm sorry but I forgot to mention that I am wanting an "external drive". I can't find a caviar external drive.


----------



## inkahauts

"Losi b" said:


> I'm sorry but I forgot to mention that I am wanting an "external drive". I can't find a caviar external drive.


You need to get a separate enclosure for it. Read the last page or two and you will see the two we all recommend the most and their pluses and minuses. I use the antec mx1 myself.


----------



## Rich

Losi b said:


> I'm sorry but I forgot to mention that I am wanting an "external drive". I can't find a caviar external drive.


I can't send a link but if you go to Amazon, and put this in the search box: "internal hard drives +WD Red" you will see the new Red Caviars. Various capacities.

Rich


----------



## Losi b

Rich said:


> I can't send a link but if you go to Amazon, and put this in the search box: "internal hard drives +WD Red" you will see the new Red Caviars. Various capacities.
> 
> Rich


Ok, got it. Unfortunately, I am not computer savy at all. 
Rich, with the knowledge that you have concerning the need that I have, would you select a specific model, part number identified preferably please that you would buy for yourself if you had my needs? Also, I now understand that I'll have to buy box/enclosure for it. Would you list a model/part number that would work for the drive that you suggest? Feel free to pm the info if you would like.
Thank you again for tolerating my questions. Your help and knowledge is very appreciated.
Brian


----------



## dpeters11

But are the Red caviars as good to use in a DVR environment as an av drive? I thought normal error correction was a problem in a DVR type environment.


----------



## RunnerFL

dpeters11 said:


> But are the Red caviars as good to use in a DVR environment as an av drive? I thought normal error correction was a problem in a DVR type environment.


The Red drives are built for NAS, that would be better than an "A/V" drive.

These are the next best thing to WD's "Velociraptor" drives and those might as well be Enterprise level drives.


----------



## dpeters11

Ok, cool. That's what I'll go with when they change external support.


----------



## inkahauts

"RunnerFL" said:


> The Red drives are built for NAS, that would be better than an "A/V" drive.
> 
> These are the next best thing to WD's "Velociraptor" drives and those might as well be Enterprise level drives.


I haven't looked yet, but do they consume the same amount of power as the av drives, or less?


----------



## RunnerFL

inkahauts said:


> I haven't looked yet, but do they consume the same amount of power as the av drives, or less?


I'm not sure what the A/V drives took up but these claim 4.4 watts for read/write and 0.6 watt in standby.

http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digital-Red-Hard-Drive/dp/tech-data/B008JJLW4M/ref=de_a_smtd

Here's a comparison to other current models:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B008JJLW4M

No one labels a drive "A/V" anymore. i think that was just marketing anyways.


----------



## dpeters11

I believe there were some firmware differences.


----------



## Rich

inkahauts said:


> I haven't looked yet, but do they consume the same amount of power as the av drives, or less?


When I looked at the specs (the specs I understand :nono2 I didn't see anything out of the ordinary.

Rich


----------



## Losi b

inkahauts said:


> You need to get a separate enclosure for it. Read the last page or two and you will see the two we all recommend the most and their pluses and minuses. I use the antec mx1 myself.


I took the time to read the last 4 pages and low and behold, I've got it now. Thanks again for everyone's help and newb tolarance.
Brian


----------



## Losi b

I bought a WD Caviar Green 2tb SATA drive, model # WDBAAY0020HNC-NR5N. I will be installing it in a Antec MX-1 enclosure. I've got my fingers crossed, wish me luck.


----------



## vistavia

Went to pickup a WD AV-GP drive, WD10EURX, but the salesperson offered the WD Caviar Black series as an alternative. Wound up getting the Black WD1002FAEX. Does anyone have comments/concerns about using the WD-Black Caviar devices?


----------



## IwantmyTHX

How about the 2Tb barrier? Has anyone tried the 3 TB Red Drive yet.
FWIW My MX-1 actually died after 5 years or so.


----------



## Rich

IwantmyTHX said:


> How about the 2Tb barrier? Has anyone tried the 3 TB Red Drive yet.
> FWIW My MX-1 actually died after 5 years or so.


The 2TB barrier is only on the 24s on down. The 34s are different. I had several MX-1s and all died on me. Never bothered to return one. Smashed one to little pieces with a sledgehammer. The noise of some of them was annoying. But they worked. I prefer the docks at the moment.

Rich


----------



## CCarncross

vistavia said:


> Went to pickup a WD AV-GP drive, WD10EURX, but the salesperson offered the WD Caviar Black series as an alternative. Wound up getting the Black WD1002FAEX. Does anyone have comments/concerns about using the WD-Black Caviar devices?


They run hotter and their additional performance features are completely wasted on a dvr.....


----------



## tictok

This post was prompted by questions on 3TB drives and the WD Black drives. Ditto on Black being overkill and running hotter, which you want to avoid in AV application... 
Update on my WD 3TB AV-GP (WD30EURS) installed in a Rosewill RX-358 U3C v2 enclosure connected to my HR-34. l am happy to report it has been working flawlessly for past 6 weeks. See my previous posts regarding some initial issues, that have remained resolved. 
After my reading this thread and my limited experience, I would recommend sticking with the AV-GP series. Here is a link to the WD website that categorizes their drives by intended application: http://m.wdc.com/en/products/internal-storage
I figure if WD markets a drive to be used in a particular application, they are not trying to "upsell''. I assume their intention is to make it easier for the customer to get the right hardware. The correct drive for a particular application will probably result in the best performance. Good performance = satisfied customer = repeat purchases.


----------



## Rich

CCarncross said:


> They run hotter and their additional performance features are completely wasted on a dvr.....


Don't they cost more, too?

Rich


----------



## drh

Ordered two 3 tb wd red hd's to go into a Sans Digital MR2UT+ MobileRAID - 2 Bay SATA to eSATA/USB 3.0 RAID 0 / 1 / JBOD / Spanning Enclosure - Silver.

Hope this combo works with my hr 34! Will it?


----------



## RunnerFL

drh said:


> Ordered two 3 tb wd red hd's to go into a Sans Digital MR2UT+ MobileRAID - 2 Bay SATA to eSATA/USB 3.0 RAID 0 / 1 / JBOD / Spanning Enclosure - Silver.
> 
> Hope this combo works with my hr 34! Will it?


I can't speak for the Red drives but that's the exact same enclosure I'm using on my HR34 with a pair of Seagate drives.


----------



## drh

That's encouraging, thanks.


----------



## tictok

"RunnerFL" said:


> I can't speak for the Red drives but that's the exact same enclosure I'm using on my HR34 with a pair of Seagate drives.


Are you running RAID 0 or 1 ? Have you had the need to replace a drive and how did that work out?


----------



## RunnerFL

tictok said:


> Are you running RAID 0 or 1 ? Have you had the need to replace a drive and how did that work out?


On my HR34 I'm running RAID 0, for more space. I have the same enclosure on an HR21 though and I'm running RAID 1 on it. Just to test I've pulled a drive out of the enclosure on the HR21 while it was up running and recording to see what would happen. It didn't miss a beat. I then took that drive, wiped it and stuck it back in the enclosure. Again, didn't skip a beat and just started cloning the other drive.

I've also gone as far as to take each individual drive and boot it up as a stand alone drive on that HR21 and they worked.

I have 3 machines running that same enclosure and no problems on any of them. 2 of the enclosures are the older version that doesn't support over 2TB drives and 1 is the brand new version that supports 3TB drives.


----------



## drh

I can't get a weaknees 2x2tb raid1 box to work on my new hr 23. I tested it on my new hr34 and it works. Anyone have any advice or insight? 

As background, I received one identical weaknees box that was doa and wouldn't work on either unit, the 23 or the 34. It's on it's way back today.


----------



## tictok

"RunnerFL" said:


> ....
> I've also gone as far as to take each individual drive and boot it up as a stand alone drive on that HR21 and they worked.
> ...


I take that quote to indicate that I can take my current single eSATA drive and insert it to a Sans Digital mr2ut+ along with and identical 2nd drive and run RAID 1, keeping the existing data/recordings on original drive? I understand that the Sans Digital mr2ut+ comes preconfigured to RAID 1 . Is there any additional configuration I need to perform, or should be PnP?

Thanks for your assistance!


----------



## RunnerFL

tictok said:


> I take that quote to indicate that I can take my current single eSATA drive and insert it to a Sans Digital mr2ut+ along with and identical 2nd drive and run RAID 1, keeping the existing data/recordings on original drive? I understand that the Sans Digital mr2ut+ comes preconfigured to RAID 1 . Is there any additional configuration I need to perform, or should be PnP?
> 
> Thanks for your assistance!


No, you can't. You have to start out with 2 blank drives and let the enclosure create the array. You can then use the method found on this site to copy your recordings to the new enclosure/array. Do a search on "xfsrestore" and you should find the thread with the steps.


----------



## tictok

Yeah that is what I kinda expected in the more rational part of my brain, but my hopeful (less rational) brain was being way too optimistic. 

In creating the array, is the Sans Digital mr2ut+ connected to my HR-34 while that occurs, or does the array creation occur before it is connected to my DVR?

Thanks again


----------



## RunnerFL

tictok said:


> Yeah that is what I kinda expected in the more rational part of my brain, but my hopeful (less rational) brain was being way too optimistic.
> 
> In creating the array, is the Sans Digital mr2ut+ connected to my HR-34 while that occurs, or does the array creation occur before it is connected to my DVR?
> 
> Thanks again


First make sure RAID 1 is in fact selected via the rotary switch on the back. Then put your blank drives in. Hold the reset button in the back while turning on the power. The moment the lights flash blue, red, purple (or whatever order it is) the array is setup. It takes about 5 seconds I think. From that point on the drives start to mirror each other.

If you're going to place the enclosure in view and want to get rid of the annoying lights, like I do, but don't want to go with black electrical tape check out lightdims.com. They make them in silver and they are cheap.


----------



## drh

RunnerFL said:


> I can't speak for the Red drives but that's the exact same enclosure I'm using on my HR34 with a pair of Seagate drives.


Just installed it, 2x3tb wd red, raid 1, in the sans 2 bay raid case. Instruction manual states 1 or 2 tb drive configuration, nothing about 3 tb. It is running on my hr34 now but I wonder at what capacity? Are you using > than 2 tb drives?

I can't see in the hr 34 menu any drive size or hour data, is it someplace in the setup menu?


----------



## RunnerFL

drh said:


> Just installed it, 2x3tb wd red, raid 1, in the sans 2 bay raid case. Instruction manual states 1 or 2 tb drive configuration, nothing about 3 tb. It is running on my hr34 now but I wonder at what capacity? Are you using > than 2 tb drives?
> 
> I can't see in the hr 34 menu any drive size or hour data, is it someplace in the setup menu?


The only way to know for sure is to remove it from the HR34 and hook it up to a PC to view the partition sizes. Unfortunately none of the HRs tell you drive size or recording capacity.


----------



## Herzinger

RunnerFL said:


> On my HR34 I'm running RAID 0, for more space. I have the same enclosure on an HR21 though and I'm running RAID 1 on it.


RunnerFL:
Has your HR21 received the 0x062C update? I wonder if the Sans Digital mr2ut+ is compatible with 62C. As detailed in the 0x062C issues thread, the update has apparently rendered my HR20-700 incompatible with my TenBox TB00 RAID 1 enclosure. Same for RussBarr's Lian Li enclosure. I'll switch to the Sans Digital if it proves compatible with the current software.
Thanks for the tip on the lightdims!


----------



## RunnerFL

Herzinger said:


> RunnerFL:
> Has your HR21 received the 0x062C update? I wonder if the Sans Digital mr2ut+ is compatible with 62C. As detailed in the 0x062C issues thread, the update has apparently rendered my HR20-700 incompatible with my TenBox TB00 RAID 1 enclosure. Same for RussBarr's Lian Li enclosure. I'll switch to the Sans Digital if it proves compatible with the current software.
> Thanks for the tip on the lightdims!


Yup, and it's still working fine with the "latest and greatest" release.

Lightdims are awesome! Someone here pointed me to them.


----------



## pcnerdman

Has anyone tried, the TT BlackX docking station with the 3TB red WD30EFRX for an HR34? Thanks


----------



## SFNSXguy

FYI while lightdims look cool, you don't need them. Just turn the front panel lights off by pressing the left- and right- buttons on the unit's faceplate at the same time -- each press dims them a little until they go off completely. The ON-OFF button stays on, and the others will come back on if the unit restarts (a good way to see when your unit gets an update).


----------



## RunnerFL

SFNSXguy said:


> FYI while lightdims look cool, you don't need them. Just turn the front panel lights off by pressing the left- and right- buttons on the unit's faceplate at the same time -- each press dims them a little until they go off completely. The ON-OFF button stays on, and the others will come back on if the unit restarts (a good way to see when your unit gets an update).


I didn't suggest lightdims for use on the DVR's themselves. I suggested lightdims for the lights on eSATA enclosures.


----------



## dhammon2

I have been using the following since May 2012:
Thermaltake BlacX eSATA USB Docking Station (ST0005U)
Western Digital Caviar Green 2 TB SATA II 32 MB Cache Bulk/OEM Internal Desktop Hard Drive - WD20EADS

No problems until a couple of days ago the docking station powered off and now it will not stay powered on, push the power button and it powers up until I release the button and it powers off. Called Theramaltake USA, they said to send it back, but I have to pay shipping. I noticed on Amazon 6 others with the same complaint and a few others on New Egg.


----------



## Rich

dhammon2 said:


> I have been using the following since May 2012:
> Thermaltake BlacX eSATA USB Docking Station (ST0005U)
> Western Digital Caviar Green 2 TB SATA II 32 MB Cache Bulk/OEM Internal Desktop Hard Drive - WD20EADS
> 
> No problems until a couple of days ago the docking station powered off and now it will not stay powered on, push the power button and it powers up until I release the button and it powers off. Called Theramaltake USA, they said to send it back, but I have to pay shipping. I noticed on Amazon 6 others with the same complaint and a few others on New Egg.


I've written several posts about this. I've recommended always pulling the power plug on the docks. For those of you who haven't read my posts about this, let me repeat myself: There is something wrong with the switches and I think it's reprehensible for TT to make you pay shipping to return them.

Rich


----------



## harsh

Rich said:


> There is something wrong with the switches and I think it's reprehensible for TT to make you pay shipping to return them.


Prepaid returns on depot repairs (whether warranty or not) has been something that has been the norm for as long as I can remember. If you had purchased a service contract that included return shipping, that would be a different story.


----------



## dhammon2

Rich said:


> I've written several posts about this. I've recommended always pulling the power plug on the docks. For those of you who haven't read my posts about this, let me repeat myself: There is something wrong with the switches and I think it's reprehensible for TT to make you pay shipping to return them.
> 
> Rich


I didn't touch the power button until it powered off and I pushed it to try and power it back on.

From Thermaltake USA:
"Please note that the customer is responsible for the cost to ship the defective product back to us, while Thermaltake will pay the shipping of the repaired part back to the customer via UPS ground. Thermaltake will cover the return shipping of item within the first 30 days of purchase if the product has failed or the product may be returned to the vendor for a replacement. If this applies, then a return shipping label will be issued to the customer.
"


----------



## Rich

harsh said:


> Prepaid returns on depot repairs (whether warranty or not) has been something that has been the norm for as long as I can remember. If you had purchased a service contract that included return shipping, that would be a different story.


I'm surprised. Can't remember anyone not giving me an RMA number.

Rich


----------



## Rich

dhammon2 said:


> I didn't touch the power button until it powered off and I pushed it to try and power it back on.


All it takes is one push and the switch breaks. I've got one that failed in the closed position. Switches are usually designed to fail in the open position.

Rich


----------



## rorkin

rsblaski said:


> For the ultimate in simplicity, go with the Thermaltake. Inserting the drive is exactly like putting bread in a toaster. The Antec takes more effort and the fan is something that could possibly (although not likely) fail.


Is there anything needed other than mating the drive and case and just plugging in ?? Will the HR21 recognize a 2tb drive ??


----------



## Rich

rorkin said:


> Is there anything needed other than mating the drive and case and just plugging in ?? Will the HR21 recognize a 2tb drive ??


All the HRs will recognize a TT with a 2TB drive in it. There is a protocol for starting the process. You also need an eSATA to eSATA jumper cable that comes with the TT dock and most enclosures. For simplicity, you just can't beat the TT docks. No tools.

Ask more questions if you're not clear about this before you do it.

Rich


----------



## hsedsie

I took your advice and purchased a TT BlacX and a WD20EURS. Haven't connected it yet but I understand your sequence to connect it. Now I still have some old recordings on the internal drive I need to watch but I would like to see that what I bought will work so I would like to connect the external, try it, and then remove it. What would be the best sequence to power down and remove the external and use the internal again? Thanks for your reply!


----------



## RunnerFL

hsedsie said:


> I took your advice and purchased a TT BlacX and a WD20EURS. Haven't connected it yet but I understand your sequence to connect it. Now I still have some old recordings on the internal drive I need to watch but I would like to see that what I bought will work so I would like to connect the external, try it, and then remove it. What would be the best sequence to power down and remove the external and use the internal again? Thanks for your reply!


All I do when I want to go back to the internal drive is perform a menu reboot and when the front panel lights go out I turn off my eSATA enclosure. In the case of the TT BlacX people suggest pulling the power because the power button is fragile. I haven't had issues with the power button on mine but others have.


----------



## Rich

hsedsie said:


> I took your advice and purchased a TT BlacX and a WD20EURS. Haven't connected it yet but I understand your sequence to connect it. Now I still have some old recordings on the internal drive I need to watch but I would like to see that what I bought will work so I would like to connect the external, try it, and then remove it. What would be the best sequence to power down and remove the external and use the internal again? Thanks for your reply!


First time you do it, unplug the HR and don't plug the dock in yet. Attach the eSATA to eSATA cable to the HR and then, with the HDD in the dock, plug in the power cord. Wait until the HDD is thru spinning up, you can hold your hand on the top of the HDD and feel it spin up and "burp" when it's done. Then plug in the HR and it should recognize the external HDD. You will see a window on your TV that says the HR is checking your storage device, or words to that effect. Believe *RunnerFL* when he says the on/off button on the back is fragile. Once you initially use it to turn the dock on, don't use it anymore, pull the plug.

After the first installation, follow *RunnerFL's* instructions on rebooting. Doesn't work every time, but it does most of the time. If it doesn't work, go back to my original instructions.

Good luck.

Rich


----------



## hsedsie

OK Rich I successfully restarted with the external as you described successfully although it said it was downloading additional software for quite a while but said if I chose to skip to watch DTV it would download later which I did. Then using RunnerFL's method to shut down I came back up and found the old playlist but guide data was basically missing as well as ratings, pictures etc. The guide has been rebuilding since last night. So was this supposed to happen? I thought going back to the internal drive I would find all intact. What would be your method to disconnect the external? Yes I do believe you regarding the switch as the many reviews on the product state.


----------



## Rich

hsedsie said:


> OK Rich I successfully restarted with the external as you described successfully although it said it was downloading additional software for quite a while but said if I chose to skip to watch DTV it would download later which I did.


That's something that I wouldn't do. Seems like every time I shut down a download in progress it causes problems.



> Then using RunnerFL's method to shut down I came back up and found the old playlist but guide data was basically missing as well as ratings, pictures etc. The guide has been rebuilding since last night. So was this supposed to happen?


To be honest, I never go back to the internal drive once I install an external drive. But the Guide Data was probably lost and it does take quite a while to rebuild it. Same thing happens if you take a large drive and put it on/in a different HR. Gotta have patience, it will come back.



> I thought going back to the internal drive I would find all intact. What would be your method to disconnect the external?


I'd just shut down the HR using the Menu Restart option (when it starts to reboot pull the plug) and then pull the power cord on the external device and boot up the HR, making sure you wait at least 30 seconds to reboot the HR.



> Yes I do believe you regarding the switch as the many reviews on the product state.


What's really wacky about the on/off switch is that it either fails on or fails off. That surprised me. Should have been built to fail off, I would think. I've got one that failed on and I still use it. If it fails off, the dock is unusable.

Rich


----------



## CCarncross

hsedsie said:


> OK Rich I successfully restarted with the external as you described successfully although it said it was downloading additional software for quite a while but said if I chose to skip to watch DTV it would download later which I did. Then using RunnerFL's method to shut down I came back up and found the old playlist but guide data was basically missing as well as ratings, pictures etc. The guide has been rebuilding since last night. So was this supposed to happen? I thought going back to the internal drive I would find all intact. What would be your method to disconnect the external? Yes I do believe you regarding the switch as the many reviews on the product state.


guide data, ratings, pictures are all "cached data" that may need to be re-downloaded with each reboot.....


----------



## Rich

CCarncross said:


> guide data, ratings, pictures are all "cached data" that may need to be re-downloaded with each reboot.....


I don't remember this happening to me unless I did a Guide flush. But I don't remember what I had for dinner last night...  Thinking about it now, and if you use only the external drive for a few months the internal drive would certainly need to be updated, I would think.

Rich


----------



## TitanFan

RunnerFL said:


> On my HR34 I'm running RAID 0, for more space. I have the same enclosure on an HR21 though and I'm running RAID 1 on it. Just to test I've pulled a drive out of the enclosure on the HR21 while it was up running and recording to see what would happen. It didn't miss a beat. I then took that drive, wiped it and stuck it back in the enclosure. Again, didn't skip a beat and just started cloning the other drive.
> 
> I've also gone as far as to take each individual drive and boot it up as a stand alone drive on that HR21 and they worked.
> 
> I have 3 machines running that same enclosure and no problems on any of them. 2 of the enclosures are the older version that doesn't support over 2TB drives and 1 is the brand new version that supports 3TB drives.


So, you are running (2) 3TB disks in a RAID 0 configuration on your HR34 for a total capacity of 6 TB? That's a lot of recordings!!


----------



## RunnerFL

TitanFan said:


> So, you are running (2) 3TB disks in a RAID 0 configuration on your HR34 for a total capacity of 6 TB? That's a lot of recordings!!


Yes, I am. I've got a bunch of recordings already on there and I'm still at 97% available.


----------



## Rich

RunnerFL said:


> Yes, I am. I've got a bunch of recordings already on there and I'm still at 97% available.


Today, you can buy a 34 with a 3TB drive at Weaknees for "only" $899. Amazing. But, people must buy them. Lemmings.

Rich


----------



## BAHitman

$899... do you then "own" it... 

I have 4x3TB drives in RAID5 for a whopping 8.19TiB of data... have recorded tons of stuff including every NFL playoff game padded by 3 hours and still over 90% free space...


----------



## RunnerFL

BAHitman said:


> $899... do you then "own" it...
> 
> I have 4x3TB drives in RAID5 for a whopping 8.19TiB of data... have recorded tons of stuff including every NFL playoff game padded by 3 hours and still over 90% free space...


What enclosure was it you were using? I forget.


----------



## Rich

BAHitman said:


> $899... do you then "own" it...


Just called them and they don't know! But you're buying a modified HR, so right away that goes against the TOS. Just called ACT and the CSR had to check on that and came back and told me it would be owned. BTW, that price is only for today, then it goes back to its regular price of $999. Sheesh.



> I have 4x3TB drives in RAID5 for a *whopping 8.19TiB of data*... have recorded tons of stuff including every NFL playoff game padded by 3 hours and still over 90% free space...


*Minimalist..... :lol:*

Rich


----------



## Rich

RunnerFL said:


> What enclosure was it you were using? I forget.


Here comes the "boomerang effect": What enclosure are you using? I was just on Newegg and some of them were decently priced. I think I remember you saying it is a Sans Digital model, but I don't remember which model.

Rich


----------



## RunnerFL

Rich said:


> Here comes the "boomerang effect": What enclosure are you using? I was just on Newegg and some of them were decently priced. I think I remember you saying it is a Sans Digital model, but I don't remember which model.
> 
> Rich


For my 9TB RAID5 setup I was using this one. There were intermittent micro dropouts on some recordings but I couldn't say 100% it was the enclosure's fault though.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006MB9B2E/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00

I recently went back to this one with 2 3TB drives in a RAID0 array:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007QQ4584/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00


----------



## BAHitman

RunnerFL said:


> What enclosure was it you were using? I forget.


Promise SmartStor DS4600.

works flawless so far... been in use for about 9 months...


----------



## Rich

RunnerFL said:


> For my 9TB RAID5 setup I was using this one. There were intermittent micro dropouts on some recordings but I couldn't say 100% it was the enclosure's fault though.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006MB9B2E/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00
> 
> I recently went back to this one with 2 3TB drives in a RAID0 array:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007QQ4584/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00


Geez, I paid ~ $500 each for the 2 RAID enclosures I bought about four years ago.

Rich


----------



## TitanFan

BAHitman said:


> $899... do you then "own" it...
> 
> I have 4x3TB drives in RAID5 for a whopping 8.19TiB of data... have recorded tons of stuff including every NFL playoff game padded by 3 hours and still over 90% free space...


Unless your disk controller has a fair amount of cache, I would think the RAID 5 parity data calculation & write could cause a performance issue if you're recording a lot of shows at the same time. I can understand data protection for your recording, but I think today's disk drives are more reliable than the DVR, so it's not necessary.


----------



## Rich

TitanFan said:


> Unless your disk controller has a fair amount of cache, I would think the RAID 5 parity data calculation & write could cause a performance issue if you're recording a lot of shows at the same time. I can understand data protection for your recording, *but I think today's disk drives are more reliable than the DVR*, so it's not necessary.


*Agreed, glad to see I'm not the only one with that opinion.*

Rich


----------



## BAHitman

TitanFan said:


> Unless your disk controller has a fair amount of cache, I would think the RAID 5 parity data calculation & write could cause a performance issue if you're recording a lot of shows at the same time. I can understand data protection for your recording, but I think today's disk drives are more reliable than the DVR, so it's not necessary.


That's why cheapest is not always best, and as long as the RAID CPU can keep up with writes, there's no problem...

I have tested 5 record / 4 playback with what I have and it works fine on my HR34. and while the drives are pretty reliable, the DVR's are as well in my experience... have had 2 HDD failures and 1 power supply failure in the time I have owned my HR's...

as long as you can keep the drive cool they are very reliable... I just recently retired some 750's that have been running non-stop for more than 6 years in my server's external enclosure.

The reason I use RAID5 is because I just don't trust RAID0/spanning with that many disks to run that long without a failure...


----------



## Rich

BAHitman said:


> That's why cheapest is not always best, and as long as the RAID CPU can keep up with writes, there's no problem...
> 
> I have tested 5 record / 4 playback with what I have and it works fine on my HR34. and while the drives are pretty reliable, the DVR's are as well in my experience... have had 2 HDD failures and 1 power supply failure in the time I have owned my HR's...
> 
> as long as you can keep the drive cool they are very reliable... I just recently retired some 750's that have been running non-stop for more than 6 years in my server's external enclosure.
> 
> The reason I use RAID5 is because I just don't trust RAID0/spanning with that many disks to run that long without a failure...


Still, there's always the chance of losing the HR that recorded all the content on the HDDs. Then, you've lost everything. Until D* allows us to use any HR to view content on any HDD recorded within your account, I would not get a five tuner HR and put a huge amount of recordings on it. Just my opinion.

Rich


----------



## BAHitman

Rich said:


> Still, there's always the chance of losing the HR that recorded all the content on the HDDs. Then, you've lost everything. Until D* allows us to use any HR to view content on any HDD recorded within your account, I would not get a five tuner HR and put a huge amount of recordings on it. Just my opinion.
> 
> Rich


Yes it's true if the HR dies I lose the content, but I know this and if it happens it happens, and then there's the chance that a software update changes the functionality where it would be possible to do this, and if such should happen, I have a cache of recordings all ready to go to one of my other's if it comes down to that... if not, delete the recordings, and still will have the SL's and other settings stored on the drive...


----------



## detroit_fan

detroit_fan said:


> My WD20EURS & blacX are still doing great, installed them on 6/23. i love having all this space. i also just added an HR34 and MRV so now I have a 2TB, 1TB, and whatever the HR22 comes standard with.


just wanted to update. the external drive is still going great, it has made my system so much better. thanks again for all of you who helped me with this


----------



## Rich

detroit_fan said:


> just wanted to update. the external drive is still going great, it has made my system so much better. thanks again for all of you who helped me with this


Wonderful! Now if more people would just listen to our recommendations instead of buying unknown external devices, they'd be happy campers too.

Rich


----------



## Rich

BAHitman said:


> Yes it's true if the HR dies I lose the content, but I know this and if it happens it happens, and then there's the chance that a software update changes the functionality where it would be possible to do this, and if such should happen, I have a cache of recordings all ready to go to one of my other's if it comes down to that... if not, delete the recordings, and still will have the SL's and other settings stored on the drive...


Well, you've got enough HRs to do a decent amount of backing up valued content.

Rich


----------



## hobbes4444

Thinking of replacing an eSATA drive that's down to a bit under 30% with my HR20-100. I've stuck to 1TB or 1.5TB so far based on recommendations here. Many of the new working set ups involve newer receivers with 2TB drives. Is it safe/reliable to connect a 2TB drive to my HR20-100 (with a TT dock)? Looking at the WD Red or the WD20EURS AV drive.

And if I want to switch back and forth between HDDs (on the same receiver), would this be the appropriate series of steps?


- Unplug the HR. 
- Unplug the TT.
- Remove eSATA from HR.
- Swap HDDs.
- Connect eSATA cable to HR. 
- Plug in TT and give it several seconds to allow HDD to get up to speed. 
- Last, plug in the HR.


----------



## P Smith

if you have one TT dock these steps are not required:
-* Remove eSATA from HR.*
- Swap HDDs.
- *Connect eSATA cable to HR.*


----------



## CCarncross

hobbes4444 said:


> Thinking of replacing an eSATA drive that's down to a bit under 30% with my HR20-100. I've stuck to 1TB or 1.5TB so far based on recommendations here. Many of the new working set ups involve newer receivers with 2TB drives. Is it safe/reliable to connect a 2TB drive to my HR20-100 (with a TT dock)? Looking at the WD Red or the WD20EURS AV drive.
> 
> And if I want to switch back and forth between HDDs (on the same receiver), would this be the appropriate series of steps?
> 
> - Unplug the HR.
> - Unplug the TT.
> *- Remove eSATA from HR.*
> - Swap HDDs.
> *- Connect eSATA cable to HR. *
> - Plug in TT and give it several seconds to allow HDD to get up to speed.
> - Last, plug in the HR.


In my mind, these 2 *BOLDED* steps are unnecessary.

menu restart HR
when lights go out pull HR power plug
unplug TT
swap drives
plug in TT and wait 30 secs for drive to spin up
plug in HR

very similar to your process but what I have done for over 5 years and never a problem. I've got 2TB EURS on on 2 different HR2x models. I have no experience with the Red models.


----------



## hobbes4444

Thanks ^ and ^^. Just waiting for any +/- re the 2TB drives with the HR20-100 specifically. I searched and found a bunch of 1TB and 1.5TB, and I have experience with those. BUt I don't recall any 20-100 and 2TB comments.


----------



## P Smith

WDC AV/GP drives are OK for any DVR


----------



## CCarncross

Literally 100's of people have 2 TB's on HR20's, quite truthfully, I feel it makes absolutely no difference in the dvr manufacturer. I have an HR20-700 with a 2TB EURS/TT combo on it, and 2 HR22-100's with 2TB/TT combos on them...never had an issue with any of them. All of the HR2x series support up to 2TB, and most of us use and/or recommend the EURS drives.


----------



## RunnerFL

Seagate drives work just as well.


----------



## P Smith

Seagate would be Pipeline HD.2 trim for AV market...


----------



## CCarncross

RunnerFL said:


> Seagate drives work just as well.


Based on past experiences I wouldn't give you 2 cents for a Seagate drive.


----------



## RunnerFL

CCarncross said:


> Based on past experiences I wouldn't give you 2 cents for a Seagate drive.


I feel the same about WD.


----------



## dminches

Is the WD AVGP preferable over the WD20EURS? This is for an HR24 with a thermaltake dock.


----------



## CCarncross

dminches said:


> Is the WD AVGP preferable over the WD20EURS? This is for an HR24 with a thermaltake dock.


The EURS model drives are AVGP drives.....

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.aspx?id=150


----------



## RoyGBiv

I have a 1TB WD EURS drive in an Antec enclosure connected to one HR20-700 and a 2TB WD EURS drive with a TT enclosure for another HR20-700. Both work perfectly well.

SMK


----------



## dminches

CCarncross said:


> The EURS model drives are AVGP drives.....
> 
> http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.aspx?id=150


Right.

I am not sure why I am getting video stuttering and freezing with this combination.


----------



## P Smith

dminches said:


> ..
> I am not sure why I am getting video stuttering and freezing with this combination.


I would bring the external drive to PC and would run two tests: one as-is; second - after installing bare drive into PC.
The program would be Victoria for Windows, while better get self-bootable CD with MHDD v4.6


----------



## Rich

dminches said:


> Right.
> 
> I am not sure why I am getting video stuttering and freezing with this combination.


Which HR are you using it on?

Rich


----------



## dminches

Rich said:


> Which HR are you using it on?
> 
> Rich


HR24-500.

I just purchased this. I realized that the HD had been used briefly (2 hours) with another DVR so I hooked it up to my computer and deleted all the volumes on it. I just power cycled the HR24 with the drive attached to see if maybe that will clear up the issues.


----------



## P Smith

deleting volumes ? shouldn't affect ... will see what you'll get after this easy "fix"


----------



## dminches

I just wanted to wipe it clean. That's all.


----------



## Rich

dminches said:


> HR24-500.
> 
> I just purchased this. I realized that the HD had been used briefly (2 hours) with another DVR so I hooked it up to my computer and deleted all the volumes on it. I just power cycled the HR24 with the drive attached to see if maybe that will clear up the issues.


Just an opinion, but the 24-500s are a royal PITA when you're trying to put an external device on it.

Rich


----------



## dminches

Rich said:


> Just an opinion, but the 24-500s are a royal PITA when you're trying to put an external device on it.
> 
> Rich


But you have done it successfully, right? One of my other HR-24s is a 500 and the external dock worked fine from the get go.

What did you do to rectify issues?

Since the unit is owned I could just put it inside. Is that been your "fix"?


----------



## scubacop1714

I am considering a G-Technology G-RAID 4 TB Dual External Hard Drive to go with a HR24/100, actually two of them. One for each. With the esata, will it recognize this drive? This may have been covered in a previous post, I apoligize in advance if I missed it. Any insight would be appreciated.


----------



## CCarncross

scubacop1714 said:


> I am considering a G-Technology G-RAID 4 TB Dual External Hard Drive to go with a HR24/100, actually two of them. One for each. With the esata, will it recognize this drive? This may have been covered in a previous post, I apoligize in advance if I missed it. Any insight would be appreciated.


The HR2x series is only capable of 2TB of space, so as long as its 2TB mirrored and looks like a single 2TB drive, it should work in theory.


----------



## RunnerFL

scubacop1714 said:


> I am considering a G-Technology G-RAID 4 TB Dual External Hard Drive to go with a HR24/100, actually two of them. One for each. With the esata, will it recognize this drive? This may have been covered in a previous post, I apoligize in advance if I missed it. Any insight would be appreciated.


I haven't heard of anyone trying that enclosure so you'd be the first. As CCarncross said though you're limited to 2TB so you'd need to setup the enclosure to use RAID1.


----------



## spunkyvision

RunnerFL said:


> First make sure RAID 1 is in fact selected via the rotary switch on the back. Then put your blank drives in. Hold the reset button in the back while turning on the power. The moment the lights flash blue, red, purple (or whatever order it is) the array is setup. It takes about 5 seconds I think. From that point on the drives start to mirror each other.
> 
> If you're going to place the enclosure in view and want to get rid of the annoying lights, like I do, but don't want to go with black electrical tape check out lightdims.com. They make them in silver and they are cheap.


Thanks for the info RunnerFL. Quick question, is there a "graceful" way to shutdown the enclosure? or just simply turn it off with the switch?
thanks


----------



## RunnerFL

spunkyvision said:


> Thanks for the info RunnerFL. Quick question, is there a "graceful" way to shutdown the enclosure? or just simply turn it off with the switch?
> thanks


The enclosure itself? No, just hit the power switch. If you have it hooked up to a DVR though you should do a menu reset and pull the power when the front panel lights have gone off.


----------



## spunkyvision

Excellent, what I thought since there doesn't seem to be an option. 

I only had 2 identical unopened WD 3 TB Red drives around and used them in the Sans Unit and it will not format I get an error "Diagnostic Code - 75-411" when first booting to my HR-24. 

I knew it wouldn't detect all 3TB but I thought it would at least format it to 2 TB. Is that the main reason for the error or something else? I don't want to go through 63 pages of working esata setups so if I were to go to a brick and mortar store what 2 - 2TB drives should I get? Any of the WD Greens?


----------



## spunkyvision

WD20000CSRTL - I know is in stock
WD20EURS - not sure nothing shows up on site if it is or isn't available


----------



## Rich

spunkyvision said:


> WD20000CSRTL - I know is in stock
> WD20EURS - not sure nothing shows up on site if it is or isn't available


The EURS drives are made for DVRs.

Rich


----------



## Rich

spunkyvision said:


> WD20000CSRTL - I know is in stock
> WD20EURS - not sure nothing shows up on site if it is or isn't available


Amazon has it on sale at a decent price. Here's a *link*.

Rich


----------



## spunkyvision

Thanks Rich. If I can't get the EURS does the WD Green Retail kit one work? 
I can't find the EURS locally.


----------



## RunnerFL

spunkyvision said:


> Excellent, what I thought since there doesn't seem to be an option.
> 
> I only had 2 identical unopened WD 3 TB Red drives around and used them in the Sans Unit and it will not format I get an error "Diagnostic Code - 75-411" when first booting to my HR-24.
> 
> I knew it wouldn't detect all 3TB but I thought it would at least format it to 2 TB. Is that the main reason for the error or something else? I don't want to go through 63 pages of working esata setups so if I were to go to a brick and mortar store what 2 - 2TB drives should I get? Any of the WD Greens?


I believe people have posted in the past that their 3TB was formatted to 2TB but those weren't RAID setups so I'm not sure how yours should act. Did you hook it up to a PC first to make sure it is definitely a RAID 1 array?

The 75- code definitely points to an issue with the enclosure. Here's a list of the codes for future reference.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=167420


----------



## spunkyvision

thanks again RunnerFL and Rich!
I had the WD 3 TB Red drives for my Synology Diskstation and thought I would try but it looks like a RAID 1 Enclosure with 2 - WD30EFRX (3TB) will not work on an HR24-500

So, I took out two of my WD20EARS drives from my synology diskstation, put them in to the RAID 1 enclosure and reset the enclosure. Turned on HR24-500 and it formatted it and is now getting Guide Data.

a while ago someone (probably Rich) mentioned the jumpers on the WD20EARS, is that the case? If for some reason I need to put the jumpers on (4/5??) will that cause a reformat? 

If one (WD20EARS) fails I have 8 others to swap out


----------



## Rich

spunkyvision said:


> thanks again RunnerFL and Rich!
> I had the WD 3 TB Red drives for my Synology Diskstation and thought I would try but it looks like a RAID 1 Enclosure with 2 - WD30EFRX (3TB) will not work on an HR24-500
> 
> So, I took out two of my WD20EARS drives from my synology diskstation, put them in to the RAID 1 enclosure and reset the enclosure. Turned on HR24-500 and it formatted it and is now getting Guide Data.
> 
> a while ago someone (probably Rich) mentioned the jumpers on the WD20EARS, is that the case? If for some reason I need to put the jumpers on (4/5??) will that cause a reformat?
> 
> If one (WD20EARS) fails I have 8 others to swap out


You don't need the jumpers on any HDDs anymore as far as I know. The WD retail kit apparently has EARS drives in them. I've been using EARS and EARX drives for quite a while with no failures (I did have one problem with putting an EARS drive in a TT dock, but I'm not sure if the dock or the EARS drive was at fault. In any case, the EARS was replaced by an EARX and works quite well. (Still don't know if that TT dock was bad, I have several of them laying around and don't know which one it was.)

We used to have to put the jumpers on the WD drives, but that changed a couple years ago. Right after I bought a bag full of them..... :lol:

Rich


----------



## spunkyvision

Figure (buying a bunch and not needing them now) 

So far so good with raid1 enclosure and drives. 
Thanks all


----------



## alcatholic

tictok said:


> Update on my WD 3TB AV-GP (WD30EURS) installed in a Rosewill RX-358 U3C v2 enclosure connected to my HR-34. l am happy to report it has been working flawlessly for past 6 weeks. See my previous posts regarding some initial issues, that have remained resolved.


I've just ordered this exact combination from NewEgg. Well, I didn't get the U3C version of the Rosewill enclosure, just the USB 2 version. Why'd you go with USB 3?

Thank you!


----------



## RunnerFL

alcatholic said:


> I've just ordered this exact combination from NewEgg. Well, I didn't get the U3C version of the Rosewill enclosure, just the USB 2 version. Why'd you go with USB 3?
> 
> Thank you!


The USB version doesn't matter since you're using eSATA.


----------



## tictok

alcatholic;3189030 said:


> I've just ordered this exact combination from NewEgg. Well, I didn't get the U3C version of the Rosewill enclosure, just the USB 2 version. Why'd you go with USB 3?
> 
> Thank you!


To be honest, I don't know. That said, I am guessing that the USB 2 model was not the V2, at the time I made my purchase. When I bought mine I remember there was both a RX-358 and a RX-358 U3C. The U3C supported 3 TB, the other did not. Maybe Rosewill introduced the 3TB support on the USB 3 model first, and later on the USB 2 model (hence the V2 suffix to the model number?). I do know I was careful to pick a model that supported a 3 TB drive. That is what drove my choice, not the USB 3. Looks like you saved $20 with the USB 2 model. Good job!

Let us know how it works.

I am happy to report my setup is still running nearly perfectly. I had one more instance where a recording would go black, for a few seconds and then come back (see my earlier post for a more complete description). However, I have also read in other forums, unrelated to external drives, users reporting the exact same behavior. So I am doubtful it has anything to do with external drives in general or my particular setup, given my 99+% success rate. My setup is on my main DVR and occasionally record 3 shows simultaneously (particularly with show times overlapping), while watching a fourth live or previously recorded. It handles the I/O just fine.


----------



## tictok

As a side note to my above post - this an example of how careful one needs to be about model numbers/ designations. I know in the past I have made errors when buying after comparison shopping that I did not realize that a model number was slightly different, such as in this case RX-358 vs RX-358 V2 vs RX-358 U3C. Google any one of these 3 model numbers, and any or all 3 will be in the results.

As the saying goes "Fool me once, shame on you! Fool me twice, shame on me! "


----------



## CNI Dawg

Does anybody know why my DirecTV HR24 is slow with eSATA 2TB external WD HDD when switching from recorded programs back to normal TV or to guide?
It has a long pause, 15-20 seconds, before switch is complete.

Do I have a setup problem I've overlooked?

Same thing happens with my other HR24 and an eSATA 1TB external HDD in the other TV room

Both were much faster without the external HDD attached via eSATA interface

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated !

TIA
-CNI Dawg


----------



## CCarncross

CNI Dawg, You'll need to give more info. Are the drives full, how old are the drives, have you run diagnostics on the drives? Are you using the recommended WD drives? Are you using the recommended drive enclosures? Did the slowdown happen immediately after connecting the externals? Do you have all the settings identical between the internal and external drives, native on, same resolutions, etc..?


----------



## franklin_planner

WD 3TB EURS AV-GP with TT dock on HR-34. No problems either.


----------



## camo

Hooked this one up with HR-24 and works. Doesn't come with esata cable however. Buy separately. Also can be used as usb2 drive, cable included. Micronet Technology Fantom GreenDrive 2 TB USB 2.0/eSATA

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002XITVCA/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## P Smith

camo said:


> Hooked this one up with HR-24 and works. Doesn't come with esata cable however. Buy separately. Also can be used as usb2 drive, cable included. Micronet Technology Fantom GreenDrive 2 TB USB 2.0/eSATA
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002XITVCA/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


We should wait for more reports and few months of using before final recommendation ...


----------



## Rich

camo said:


> Hooked this one up with HR-24 and works. Doesn't come with esata cable however. Buy separately. Also can be used as usb2 drive, cable included. Micronet Technology Fantom GreenDrive 2 TB USB 2.0/eSATA
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002XITVCA/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


Have heard good things and bad things about the Fantom line. I don't think I'd buy one.

Rich


----------



## Rich

P Smith said:


> We should wait for more reports and few months of using before final recommendation ...


Yup. Still don't think I'd buy one. Just an opinion.

Rich


----------



## deerewright

Just wanted to post my successful setup, thanks to recommendations here:

HR44 Genie
Sans Digital MobileRAID MR2UT+ with two Western Digital Green WD30EZRX 3TB hard drives. 

I set up the enclosure as RAID 1, plugged-in eSATA, powered on enclosure, then powered on the Genie. The Genie would not recognize the external; it just kept booting to the internal HDD.

I then attached the MR2UT+ to my windows 7 and initialized the drives with drive manager, and confirmed it was showing 3TB. Afterwards, I reattached to the HR44, and it booted to the external fine. So far so good, running great for a week. I have even confirmed the RAID1 by pulling each drive, booting with other, making changes, and then rebuilding the RAID. Works perfectly!

The only complaint I have is the noise of the fan on the MR2UT+. It's not really noticeable except at night when the kids are asleep, and house is quiet 

I also wish there were a way to monitor the health/temperature of the drives.


----------



## P Smith

The noise is good thing for married couple with kids, exactly night time, when activity of kids goes down and adult could have some joy


----------



## TomCat

Uh....OK


----------



## rb5505

opinions on this drive for a hr22-100 OR hr24-100......it's currently $84.99 ("shell shocker deal")......

WD20EZRX

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822236404


----------



## P Smith

rb5505 said:


> opinions on this drive for a hr22-100 OR hr24-100......it's currently $84.99 ("shell shocker deal")......
> 
> WD20EZRX
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822236404


looks like you are the first who would try it; don't forget to post your result here


----------



## Rich

P Smith said:


> looks like you are the first who would try it; don't forget to post your result here


Got a lot of bad reviews.

Rich


----------



## rb5505

Rich said:


> Got a lot of bad reviews.
> 
> Rich


much more favorable here....

http://www.amazon.com/WD-Green-Desktop-Hard-Drive/dp/B008YAHW6I/ref=dp_ob_title_ce


----------



## rb5505

P Smith said:


> looks like you are the first who would try it; don't forget to post your result here


would these work better with hr22-100 OR hr24-100?

WD20EARX
http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digital-Green-Intellipower-Desktop/dp/B004VFJ9MK/ref=dp_ob_title_ce

WD20EURS
http://www.amazon.com/WD-AV-GP-TB-Hard-Drive/dp/B0042AG9V8/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1361654437&sr=8-5&keywords=wd%20internal%20hard%20drive%202tb&tag=5336432741-20


----------



## Rich

rb5505 said:


> much more favorable here....
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/WD-Green-Desktop-Hard-Drive/dp/B008YAHW6I/ref=dp_ob_title_ce


I think NewEgg is a bit more techy than Amazon.

Rich


----------



## Rich

rb5505 said:


> would these work better with hr22-100 OR hr24-100?
> 
> WD20EARX
> http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digital-Green-Intellipower-Desktop/dp/B004VFJ9MK/ref=dp_ob_title_ce
> 
> WD20EURS
> http://www.amazon.com/WD-AV-GP-TB-Hard-Drive/dp/B0042AG9V8/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1361654437&sr=8-5&keywords=wd%20internal%20hard%20drive%202tb&tag=5336432741-20


Don't know about the 22-100, never had one that worked. I have a couple of 24-100s working quite well with the EARX. The EURS is made specifically for DVRs, but I have seen some posts where the poster coudn't get them to work with their HRs. I'd go with the EARX, personally.

Rich


----------



## Bazza

Bazza said:


> LONG time lurker here (many years!).
> 
> I can verify that this works great. I have had the 2TB WD20EARS in a Thermaltake dock running for over week now with no issues in my HR21-700 (0x457). Quite the bargain. Got the pair for $113 from Newegg. No tax & free shipping!
> 
> I did have a minor issue initially. It took several re-boots before it finally recognized and formatted the drive. I was about to give up, when on reboot #6 it suddenly worked.





rsblaski said:


> But with that "plan", you will lose anything recorded on that hard drive. And being 2T in size, that could be quite a lot of programming.
> If you have any doubt of the drive's longevity, you might be better off going with the EVDS drive now.





Rich said:


> Just glad it's not me...
> 
> Rich


Checking in over two years later. The 2TB WD20EARS drive has worked flawlessly. Not a single issue! I havent been around, because I havent had any problems.

Thought you might all want to know!


----------



## eileen22

Is there a current list of external drives that will work with the HR20's? I have been reading the last few pages here, but I don't see a definitive list like there used to be. I currently have a WD 1TB "My DVR Expander" drive (WDG1S1000VN) that I've been using on a HR20-700 since Aug. 2009. It's working fine, but I'm planning to move it tomorrow, as I'm getting a Genie installed in the family room, where the HR20 currently resides. The external drive has literally not been unplugged for years, I think it may have only been unplugged once since install, and I'm concerned that it might not survive the move to the bedroom. 

I noticed that the external drives being talked about recently here are all unenclosed, and so you also have to get some kind of docking station or enclosure. Is that the norm now? Does the WD enclosed unit that I see now on Amazon, which is the WDBABT0010HBK, still work with the DirecTV DVR's? Are there reasons, other than more storage space, that I shouldn't go with this if I need a replacement? 

Lastly, are there different external drives recommended for the Genie (I assume I'm getting a HR34 in Philly market) than for the HR2x's? Thanks.


----------



## CCarncross

The recommendations have not really changed. Most people are recommending a separate enclosure and bare drive to put in it because they are substantially cheaper for the same capacity and functionality....for the most part, you never know what drive is actually in the enclosure.


----------



## Rich

eileen22 said:


> Is there a current list of external drives that will work with the HR20's? I have been reading the last few pages here, but I don't see a definitive list like there used to be. I currently have a WD 1TB "My DVR Expander" drive (WDG1S1000VN) that I've been using on a HR20-700 since Aug. 2009. It's working fine, but I'm planning to move it tomorrow, as I'm getting a Genie installed in the family room, where the HR20 currently resides. The external drive has literally not been unplugged for years, I think it may have only been unplugged once since install, and I'm concerned that it might not survive the move to the bedroom.
> 
> I noticed that the external drives being talked about recently here are all unenclosed, and so you also have to get some kind of docking station or enclosure. Is that the norm now? Does the WD enclosed unit that I see now on Amazon, which is the WDBABT0010HBK, still work with the DirecTV DVR's? Are there reasons, other than more storage space, that I shouldn't go with this if I need a replacement?
> 
> Lastly, are there different external drives recommended for the Genie (I assume I'm getting a HR34 in Philly market) than for the HR2x's? Thanks.


For the HR20-700 (I've never had a 20-100 that worked) we recommend a Western Digital Green Caviar HDD coupled with a Thermaltake docking station. Here's a *link* to a WD drive that I use and a *link* to the TT dock. They will both work with a Genie.

Rich


----------



## Rich

CCarncross said:


> The recommendations have not really changed. Most people are recommending a separate enclosure and bare drive to put in it because they are substantially cheaper for the same capacity and functionality....for the most part, you never know what drive is actually in the enclosure.


On a side note, I just had an EADS crap out on me. Got about 3 years out of it. First one of the Greens to go kaput.

Rich


----------



## eileen22

Thanks for the quick replies! What are the chances that my current external drive survives a power-down, disconnect, move and reconnection to the HR20-700? Am I right to be concerned that it won't work?


----------



## RunnerFL

eileen22 said:


> Thanks for the quick replies! What are the chances that my current external drive survives a power-down, disconnect, move and reconnection to the HR20-700? Am I right to be concerned that it won't work?


The DVR may want to run a quick fsck (check disk) on the drive but that shouldn't be a big deal. Powering down/up doesn't cause failures.


----------



## dhammon2

Thought I would give an update , I purchased a Western Digital Caviar Green 2 TB SATA II 32 MB hard drive and a Thermaltake BlacX eSATA USB Docking Station, April 2012. Worked great for about 7 months then the docking station would not power up, even though I only used the power button twice. Thermaltake support just said ship it back and they would send a replacement. This docking station was highly recommended here, and 4 stars on Amazon, so I ordered a new one from Amazon so I could get back up sooner and I could use the one sent back from Thermaltake as a backup when it arrived. This one has been working fine ever since.

However, a few days ago after moving the DVR and external setup to the bedroom the DVR would not boot with the external drive attached. This didn't have anything to do with the docking station but while trying to figure out the cause of the problem I opened the box from Therlmaltake and the replacement docking staion would not power up. I took the power cord from the other docking station and the new one powered up. So I guess the problem with the first docking stations and it's replacement was the power cord or brick. I searched Amazon customer reviews and found several reporting the power button stopped working, I don't know how wide spead the problem is (47 out of 376 reviews were 1 star not sure how many were power issues) but thought I would pass this along since 2 out of the 3 I received had a power problem.


----------



## Rich

The only problem I've had with the TT dock has been with the on/off button. So far, it's only happened twice. But, they're cheap, and I guess you get what you pay for. I have to say, I have had less problems with the docks than any other external device. Thanx for the update, not many people do that.

Rich


----------



## whorne

Would this drive work for the Hr44?

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/WD+-+Caviar+Green+2+TB+3.5%22+Internal+Hard+Drive+-+Retail/9234465.p?id=1218064150518&skuId=9234465#tab=overview

Thanks


----------



## P Smith

whorne said:


> Would this drive work for the Hr44?
> 
> http://www.bestbuy.com/site/WD+-+Caviar+Green+2+TB+3.5"+Internal+Hard+Drive+-+Retail/9234465.p?id=1218064150518&skuId=9234465#tab=overview
> 
> Thanks


sure, why not? It's normal SATA bare drive.


----------



## whorne

Thanks for the input. I saw alot of discussion on here about the EARS/X and EURS version but little on this particular unit.


----------



## CCarncross

whorne said:


> Would this drive work for the Hr44?
> 
> http://www.bestbuy.com/site/WD+-+Caviar+Green+2+TB+3.5%22+Internal+Hard+Drive+-+Retail/9234465.p?id=1218064150518&skuId=9234465#tab=overview
> 
> Thanks


Sure, but its a bare drive, and you'll need an enclosure or an owned HR44 to use it as opening a leased DVR is technically a no-no.


----------



## toricred

I'm looking for a 4 bay eSATA enclosure to use with my new HR44. Has anybody tried this one: http://www.amazon.com/Mediasonic-HF2-SU3S2-ProBox-Drive-Enclosure/dp/B003X26VV4/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1374029782&sr=8-2&keywords=esata+enclosure+4+bay?


----------



## RunnerFL

toricred said:


> I'm looking for a 4 bay eSATA enclosure to use with my new HR44. Has anybody tried this one: http://www.amazon.com/Mediasonic-HF2-SU3S2-ProBox-Drive-Enclosure/dp/B003X26VV4/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1374029782&sr=8-2&keywords=esata+enclosure+4+bay?


That enclosure has no RAID capabilities and requires the eSATA port support a port multiplier. The HR's do not support a port multiplier. You'll need to go with an enclosure that has built in RAID capabilities.


----------



## toricred

Ok I missed that. I will probably end getting th SansDigital box you suggested, but funds are extremely tight right now and I want to make this move before I get much recorded on the internal drive.

What about this one: http://www.amazon.com/DIGITAL-TR4UTBPN-eSATA-Hardware-Enclosure/dp/B005JOZC0A/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1373935389&sr=1-2&keywords=TR4UTBPN

Btw, I didn't want to bother you with another PM. That's why I just posted here. I really appreciate your time answering my questions.


----------



## P Smith

Since the new models HR34/44 begin support drives/logical disks more then 2 TB, could the changes cover support of multiple HDD via internal port multiplier without RAID boxes ?
I would try the box just to test the theory ...


----------



## P Smith

toricred said:


> Ok I missed that. I will probably end getting th SansDigital box you suggested, but funds are extremely tight right now and I want to make this move before I get much recorded on the internal drive.
> 
> What about this one: http://www.amazon.com/DIGITAL-TR4UTBPN-eSATA-Hardware-Enclosure/dp/B005JOZC0A/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1373935389&sr=1-2&keywords=TR4UTBPN
> 
> Btw, I didn't want to bother you with another PM. That's why I just posted here. I really appreciate your time answering my questions.


it's a gamble if read reviews, 50-50
actually the point of low budget power brick what couldn't power more then one drive ... well get both, test them and return that what is not work for you


----------



## RunnerFL

toricred said:


> Ok I missed that. I will probably end getting th SansDigital box you suggested, but funds are extremely tight right now and I want to make this move before I get much recorded on the internal drive.
> 
> What about this one: http://www.amazon.com/DIGITAL-TR4UTBPN-eSATA-Hardware-Enclosure/dp/B005JOZC0A/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1373935389&sr=1-2&keywords=TR4UTBPN
> 
> Btw, I didn't want to bother you with another PM. That's why I just posted here. I really appreciate your time answering my questions.


That one sounds like it should work but I don't recall anyone here saying they've given one a shot. You'd be the first so make sure you let us know.


----------



## RunnerFL

P Smith said:


> Since the new models HR34/44 begin support drives/logical disks more then 2 TB, could the changes cover support of multiple HDD via internal port multiplier without RAID boxes ?
> I would try the box just to test the theory ...


There is no port multiplier in an HR34/HR44.


----------



## toricred

It looks like this is the same as one of the ones RunnerFL recommended, but in silver. It's a bit less expensive than the black one. Do you think this would be a safer bet?
http://www.amazon.com/Sans-Digital-MobileSTOR-MS4UT-Hardware/dp/B006MB9AIE/ref=pd_sim_sbs_pc_1


----------



## RunnerFL

toricred said:


> It looks like this is the same as one of the ones RunnerFL recommended, but in silver. It's a bit less expensive than the black one. Do you think this would be a safer bet?
> http://www.amazon.com/Sans-Digital-MobileSTOR-MS4UT-Hardware/dp/B006MB9AIE/ref=pd_sim_sbs_pc_1


Yeah, that would work fine. The only difference between that one and the one I use is the color.


----------



## utlimate_ed

Hey gang, I've followed this thread with interest in preparation for my upgrade. So, today I received a genie box (an R34, but whatever) and based on reading along here, I had a Blacx and a 3TB WD green drive ready to go.

After going through the setup on the DVR and making sure it was updated, I shut it down, unplugged it, and then followed the procedure on the 1st page to hook up the external drive.

My question now is - how can I tell that it's actually using the external drive? I didn't have anything recorded on the internal drive, so my list has no shows. I hadn't setup any series links since I knew they would be tied to the internal drive and have to be redone anyway.

I've been digging through the menus, but there's nothing that I can see that addresses the hard drive. I remember with older software, there was a place in the menus that would show you your approximate hours of recording capacity. Does that still exist somewhere?


----------



## P Smith

BlacX dock has a LEDs on top, if it lite only blue color, then the drive is not working for DVR, if it regularly blinking by red LED with blue one, then it's working as external

it's 100% guarantied test, as the DVR doing buffering all time and do recording to a drive


----------



## RunnerFL

utlimate_ed said:


> Hey gang, I've followed this thread with interest in preparation for my upgrade. So, today I received a genie box (an R34, but whatever) and based on reading along here, I had a Blacx and a 3TB WD green drive ready to go.
> 
> After going through the setup on the DVR and making sure it was updated, I shut it down, unplugged it, and then followed the procedure on the 1st page to hook up the external drive.
> 
> My question now is - how can I tell that it's actually using the external drive? I didn't have anything recorded on the internal drive, so my list has no shows. I hadn't setup any series links since I knew they would be tied to the internal drive and have to be redone anyway.
> 
> I've been digging through the menus, but there's nothing that I can see that addresses the hard drive. I remember with older software, there was a place in the menus that would show you your approximate hours of recording capacity. Does that still exist somewhere?


The only way to know 100% for sure is to record something with the external setup then power down and disconnect the external and boot up. If your recording isn't there then you were using the external. You can do it in reverse as well, record with external disconnected and hook it back up, etc.

The red LED on the doc will sometimes flash even if it is not being used so that's not a good indicator.


----------



## utlimate_ed

RunnerFL said:


> The only way to know 100% for sure is to record something with the external setup then power down and disconnect the external and boot up. If your recording isn't there then you were using the external. You can do it in reverse as well, record with external disconnected and hook it back up, etc.
> 
> The red LED on the doc will sometimes flash even if it is not being used so that's not a good indicator.


I'll probably have to give that a try then. My red light on the dock has been flashing pretty actively after the system came back up and running, so I was hopeful that indicated it was being used.

Thanks for the info. Guess the that bit in the menus showing the approximate hours of available space disappeared some time back.


----------



## P Smith

utlimate_ed said:


> I'll probably have to give that a try then. My red light on the dock has been flashing pretty actively after the system came back up and running, *so I was hopeful that indicated it was being used.*
> 
> Thanks for the info. Guess the that bit in the menus showing the approximate hours of available space disappeared some time back.


It's just telling you as a fact - you're using it, external drive.


----------



## CCarncross

utlimate_ed said:


> I'll probably have to give that a try then. My red light on the dock has been flashing pretty actively after the system came back up and running, so I was hopeful that indicated it was being used.
> 
> Thanks for the info. * Guess the that bit in the menus showing the approximate hours of available space disappeared some time back.*


The Directv DVRs that were introduced back starting in 2006(HR2x series) have always just displayed % free sapce available. You may be thinking of Tivo, at one time I believe they may have had approximate hours as a space indicator.


----------



## P Smith

CCarncross said:


> The Directv DVRs that were introduced back starting in 2006(HR2x series) have always just displayed % free sapce available. You may be thinking of Tivo, at one time I believe they may have had approximate hours as a space indicator.


I'm pretty sure he is 'spoiled' by dish DVRs, perhaps OTA kind: model TR-50 .


----------



## RunnerFL

utlimate_ed said:


> I'll probably have to give that a try then. My red light on the dock has been flashing pretty actively after the system came back up and running, so I was hopeful that indicated it was being used.
> 
> Thanks for the info. Guess the that bit in the menus showing the approximate hours of available space disappeared some time back.


The HR's have never shown the approximate hours, that's TiVo.


----------



## RunnerFL

P Smith said:


> It's just telling you as a fact - you're using it, external drive.


You don't know it as a fact... The only way to know for a fact is to pull the drive. I can put a drive in a DocX that's not hooked up to anything but power and the red LED will flash all day.


----------



## utlimate_ed

RunnerFL said:


> The HR's have never shown the approximate hours, that's TiVo.


Admittedly, it's been a long time since I've gone looking for that info - and, as I think about it now, it would have been after installing a bigger hard drive in my DSR7000 "DirecTivo" that I used before switching over to the HR's about five years ago. I probably knew at the time that I was giving that up and forgot since then.

Semi-related - I know the HR's show a % free down in the bottom corner when looking at the LIST. While playing around, I realized there's a little upside triangle next to the value. Typically, that indicates some kind of drop down list or menu available. Yet, I haven't found a way to reach it by navigating with the remote. Is that triangle some kind of menu, or is it trying to tell me something else?


----------



## CCarncross

Are you under 10-12% space left available? If so it may be telling you that there is content that is marked as keep until disk is full and will deleted soon based on your todo list.


----------



## P Smith

RunnerFL said:


> You don't know it as a fact... The only way to know for a fact is to pull the drive. I can put a drive in a DocX that's not hooked up to anything but power and the red LED will flash all day.


I can't support this, my docks connected to PC and DVRs (one is has both interfaces USB and SATA connected, using one at time) and I know how it works alone and together; internal controller of the dock will query the drive at power on stage (red LED will blinks for one second), then it will cease sending own cmds to it.
Perhaps your dock is faulty, but you did try to present it as normal behavior.


----------



## Rich

P Smith said:


> BlacX dock has a LEDs on top, if it lite only blue color, then the drive is not working for DVR, if it regularly blinking by red LED with blue one, then it's working as external
> 
> it's 100% guarantied test, as the DVR doing buffering all time and do recording to a drive


Not true, Pete. I thought as you did until I found one of my TTs blinking blue and pink merrily and the HR was on the internal drive. Since the first time it happened, I've seen it a couple other times. I always record something on the internal drive that would not be recorded by anybody in my family. As soon as I see that recording, I know the HR is not recognizing the external HDD. This usually happens after an NR, but I've had it happen when doing the reboots after an NR too.

Rich


----------



## Rich

CCarncross said:


> The Directv DVRs that were introduced back starting in 2006(HR2x series) have always just displayed % free sapce available. You may be thinking of Tivo, at one time I believe they may have had approximate hours as a space indicator.


They used to have (the TiVos) that info on their system info. Would be nice if D* added that feature.

Rich


----------



## Rich

P Smith said:


> I can't support this, my docks connected to PC and DVRs (one is has both interfaces USB and SATA connected, using one at time) and I know how it works alone and together; internal controller of the dock will query the drive at power on stage (red LED will blinks for one second), then it will cease sending own cmds to it.
> Perhaps your dock is faulty, but you did try to present it as normal behavior.


He's right, Pete. There was a time I would have argued the point too, but he's right.

Rich


----------



## RunnerFL

utlimate_ed said:


> Admittedly, it's been a long time since I've gone looking for that info - and, as I think about it now, it would have been after installing a bigger hard drive in my DSR7000 "DirecTivo" that I used before switching over to the HR's about five years ago. I probably knew at the time that I was giving that up and forgot since then.
> 
> Semi-related - I know the HR's show a % free down in the bottom corner when looking at the LIST. While playing around, I realized there's a little upside triangle next to the value. Typically, that indicates some kind of drop down list or menu available. Yet, I haven't found a way to reach it by navigating with the remote. Is that triangle some kind of menu, or is it trying to tell me something else?


The upside down triangle means there are more recordings in your playlist so you can scroll down and see more.


----------



## RunnerFL

P Smith said:


> I can't support this, my docks connected to PC and DVRs (one is has both interfaces USB and SATA connected, using one at time) and I know how it works alone and together; internal controller of the dock will query the drive at power on stage (red LED will blinks for one second), then it will cease sending own cmds to it.
> Perhaps your dock is faulty, but you did try to present it as normal behavior.


I have 2 docks and they both do it and neither are faulty. It is "normal" behavior at times, you cannot rely on the red LED to tell you anything.

See the attached video for the proof I'm sure you're going to demand. No drive in the dock even and red blinking away.


----------



## RunnerFL

Rich said:


> He's right, Pete. There was a time I would have argued the point too, but he's right.
> 
> Rich


Thank you, Sir!


----------



## P Smith

Rich said:


> Not true, Pete. I thought as you did until I found one of my TTs blinking blue and pink merrily and the HR was on the internal drive. Since the first time it happened, I've seen it a couple other times. I always record something on the internal drive that would not be recorded by anybody in my family. As soon as I see that recording, I know the HR is not recognizing the external HDD. This usually happens after an NR, but I've had it happen when doing the reboots after an NR too.
> 
> Rich


Rich,

Your observation just telling me the DVR's OS driver/SW periodically sending some commands to SATA_2 channel, while mostly using SATA_1 (both channels directly supporting by CPU and OS).

Adding to that, more precise description would help too: like what is different in activity when TT dock is using as main drive for DVR and when is not ? Frequency of red blinking (purple is just a result of convergent of both LEDs) should be distinguished.
Sorry, without asking the details I'm not convinced at all.


----------



## RunnerFL

P Smith said:


> Rich,
> 
> Your observation just telling me the DVR's OS driver/SW periodically sending some commands to SATA_2 channel, while mostly using SATA_1 (both channels directly supporting by CPU and OS).
> 
> Adding to that, more precise description would help too: like what is different in activity when TT dock is using as main drive for DVR and when is not ? Frequency of red blinking (purple is just a result of convergent of both LEDs) should be distinguished.
> Sorry, without asking the details I'm not convinced at all.


You were given details, and a video!


----------



## P Smith

duh ?


----------



## utlimate_ed

Man, I hadn't intended to create such a hotbed of controversy with this one


----------



## P Smith

don't feel guilty, there is nothing, we are just do sparring


----------



## RunnerFL

utlimate_ed said:


> Man, I hadn't intended to create such a hotbed of controversy with this one


There's only controversy because one person loves to stir it up and as you can see even when he's proven wrong he won't accept it.


----------



## Rich

P Smith said:


> Rich,
> 
> Your observation just telling me the DVR's OS driver/SW periodically sending some commands to SATA_2 channel, while mostly using SATA_1 (both channels directly supporting by CPU and OS).
> 
> Adding to that, more precise description would help too: like what is different in activity when TT dock is using as main drive for DVR and when is not ? Frequency of red blinking (purple is just a result of convergent of both LEDs) should be distinguished.
> Sorry, without asking the details I'm not convinced at all.


Once again, the red (or pinkish) light does come on when the internal drive is the only drive recognized. I have no idea why. I don't remember my older TT docks doing this, might be a change made by Thermaltake for some reason.

Ask yourself Pete, why would I tell you this if it wasn't true? _* RunnerFL*_ showed you what he meant. What else do you need?

Rich


----------



## P Smith

Rich said:


> Once again, the red (or pinkish) light does come on when the internal drive is the only drive recognized. I have no idea why. I don't remember my older TT docks doing this, might be a change made by Thermaltake for some reason.
> 
> Ask yourself Pete, why would I tell you this if it wasn't true? _* RunnerFL*_ showed you what he meant. What else do you need?
> 
> Rich


if you mean words in post 2571, then I've seen nothing to proof his wording

could _you_ please describe TT red LED activity when both drives connected to DVR ?


----------



## Rich

P Smith said:


> if you mean words in post 2571, then I've seen nothing to proof his wording
> 
> could _you_ please describe TT red LED activity when both drives connected to DVR ?





P Smith said:


> if you mean words in post 2571, then I've seen nothing to proof his wording
> 
> could _you_ please describe TT red LED activity when both drives connected to DVR ?


Read post 2568 and watch the movie.

Rich


----------



## RunnerFL

P Smith said:


> if you mean words in post 2571, then I've seen nothing to proof his wording
> 
> could _you_ please describe TT red LED activity when both drives connected to DVR ?


Open your eyes and check post 2568.


----------



## P Smith

Rich said:


> Read post 2568 and watch the movie.
> 
> Rich


I did, but it's totally different case ! why we should use it here ? without a drive, duh !


----------



## RunnerFL

P Smith said:


> I did, but it's totally different case ! why we should use it here ? without a drive, duh !


It CLEARLY shows you that the LED can't be trusted. If the LED is blinking, saying it's reading a drive, with no drive in it at all it CANNOT be trusted. It's SOLID proof.


----------



## P Smith

it's a state machine, if you don't know what it is, stop pretending you know how it behave in all states


----------



## P Smith

So, it is irrelevant as the example out of normal using the dock with a drive for a purpose of EHD at DVR.
You could propose to treat the LED activity light after immerse the dock under water with same point (by the way, if you don't understand why red light is blinking without a drive, I could explain to you). Oh! LOOK! IT's making blinks, sparks and fume!


----------



## RunnerFL

P Smith said:


> So, it is irrelevant as the example out of normal using the dock with a drive for a purpose of EHD at DVR.
> You could propose to treat the LED activity light after immerse the dock under water with same point (by the way, if you don't understand why red light is blinking without a drive, I could explain to you). Oh! LOOK! IT's making blinks, sparks and fume!


Ok, well I'm doing trying to help you get a clue...

Oh, btw, the Earth is round too. There is proof of that but I'm sure you'd argue about that one as well.


----------



## P Smith

That would my last word: learn how devices working. HaND.


----------



## Starrbuck

Wow, kids, please take it to private messages. We all don't need to see this..


----------



## detroit_fan

woke up today to no external drive. found the problem to be the power button on my blackX dock. i know they had power button issues, but my button was pushed on when i got it a year ago and hasn't been pressed since, so somehow it failed without even being used.

if i buy a new dock will i still be able to view my recordings, or will i have to format again?

also, i kind of hate to buy another blackX since it failed in just 13 months, any suggestiosn for a more reliable dock that's inexpensive?


----------



## drh

detroit_fan said:


> woke up today to no external drive. found the problem to be the power button on my blackX dock. i know they had power button issues, but my button was pushed on when i got it a year ago and hasn't been pressed since, so somehow it failed without even being used.
> 
> if i buy a new dock will i still be able to view my recordings, or will i have to format again?
> 
> also, i kind of hate to buy another blackX since it failed in just 13 months, any suggestiosn for a more reliable dock that's inexpensive?


Just replace the power button.


----------



## detroit_fan

drh said:


> Just replace the power button.


any info on how to do that?


----------



## Rich

detroit_fan said:


> any info on how to do that?


Yup. Don't even try. You can return the dock for a new one and you'll not lose your recordings. They come with a 2 year warranty.

Rich


----------



## Rich

drh said:


> Just replace the power button.


Seems simple, but it's not.

Rich


----------



## detroit_fan

Rich said:


> Yup. Don't even try. You can return the dock for a new one and you'll not lose your recordings. They come with a 2 year warranty.
> 
> Rich


thanks, i'll contact them through their site


----------



## Rich

detroit_fan said:


> thanks, i'll contact them through their site


I just had one go bad and got a new one in return. Very easy people to deal with. First time I tried to return one, usually just threw them out when they went bad. I think I had to pay the shipping to them, tho. Still cheaper than buying a new one.

Rich


----------



## P Smith

I would fix without hesitation; pretty easy job for skilled EE


----------



## RunnerFL

detroit_fan said:


> woke up today to no external drive. found the problem to be the power button on my blackX dock. i know they had power button issues, but my button was pushed on when i got it a year ago and hasn't been pressed since, so somehow it failed without even being used.
> 
> if i buy a new dock will i still be able to view my recordings, or will i have to format again?
> 
> also, i kind of hate to buy another blackX since it failed in just 13 months, any suggestiosn for a more reliable dock that's inexpensive?


If you got a new dock you'd be just fine, no formatting required. If it were me I'd just bypass the switch completely.


----------



## Rich

RunnerFL said:


> If you got a new dock you'd be just fine, no formatting required. If it were me I'd just bypass the switch completely.


I tried. For an ~ $35 device it didn't seem worth the effort. If they were simple two wire on/off switches I would have fixed them. I've got plenty of spares, the one I tried to jump out got the sledgehammer treatment.

By the way, after watching that movie clip you posted a couple days ago, I've been trying to duplicate what happens in the movie and I can't. I've tried a couple spare docks and both of my working docks. When I plug them in, they don't flash, all I get is a solid blue light. When I take the HDD out of the working docks, I wait until they've spun down and then power up the docks and I just get the solid blue lights. What were the circumstances when you made that clip? I don't doubt what I saw in the clip, I just can't replicate what I saw.

Rich


----------



## Rich

P Smith said:


> I would fix without hesitation; pretty easy job for skilled EE


How many people reading this post are "skilled" EEs? Raise your hands.

Rich


----------



## P Smith

Rich said:


> I tried. For an ~ $35 device it didn't seem worth the effort. If they were simple two wire on/off switches I would have fixed them. I've got plenty of spares, the one I tried to jump out got the sledgehammer treatment.
> 
> By the way, after watching that movie clip you posted a couple days ago, I've been trying to duplicate what happens in the movie and I can't. I've tried a couple spare docks and both of my working docks. When I plug them in, they don't flash, all I get is a solid blue light. When I take the HDD out of the working docks, I wait until they've spun down and then power up the docks and I just get the solid blue lights. What were the circumstances when you made that clip? I don't doubt what I saw in the clip, I just can't replicate what I saw.
> 
> Rich


mine behave like that if you turn it off, remove HDD, then turn it on

but it is predetermined reaction, not a reason to make a 'cowboy's' conclusion like above :down:


----------



## P Smith

Rich said:


> How many people reading this post are "skilled" EEs? Raise your hands.
> 
> Rich


OK, OK ... those ppl who has moderate soldering skills

excluding those who has sledgehammer nearby and short temper


----------



## RunnerFL

Rich said:


> I tried. For an ~ $35 device it didn't seem worth the effort. If they were simple two wire on/off switches I would have fixed them. I've got plenty of spares, the one I tried to jump out got the sledgehammer treatment.
> 
> By the way, after watching that movie clip you posted a couple days ago, I've been trying to duplicate what happens in the movie and I can't. I've tried a couple spare docks and both of my working docks. When I plug them in, they don't flash, all I get is a solid blue light. When I take the HDD out of the working docks, I wait until they've spun down and then power up the docks and I just get the solid blue lights. What were the circumstances when you made that clip? I don't doubt what I saw in the clip, I just can't replicate what I saw.
> 
> Rich


Since I've been messing with Raspberry Pi's now for a bit I've gotten pretty good at working with small switches again. lol

As for the dock all I have to do is plug in power and the red light just goes nuts. It still works fine but the red light doesn't only mean it's reading/writing. It's been that way since I got it and I haven't had any problem with it other than the red led not being reliable.


----------



## P Smith

why ppl decide to make such statements publicly ?
oh boy !

"the red led not being reliable"
No need to re-post nonsense; it's enough of the demonstration inability to properly describe the feature of the dock.

It is working as DESIGNED !

Frequent blinking without HDD means internal controller POLLING the connector (SATA).

Blinks each time when SATA interface is active, ie read/write/etc cmd getting through is other functionality of the red LED.

[Why it's outside of comprehensions of other ppl, it has different different place to discuss ]


----------



## RunnerFL

P Smith said:


> why ppl decide to make such statements publicly ?
> oh boy !
> 
> "the red led not being reliable"
> No need to re-post nonsense; it's enough of the demonstration inability to properly describe the feature of the dock.
> 
> It is working as DESIGNED !
> 
> Frequent blinking without HDD means internal controller POLLING the connector (SATA).
> 
> Blinks each time when SATA interface is active, ie read/write/etc cmd getting through is other functionality of the red LED.
> 
> [Why it's outside of comprehensions of other ppl, it has different different place to discuss ]


You have no idea what you're talking about so please just stop. it is NOT working as designed and the red led is NOT reliable enough to make that your determining factor as to whether or not a DVR is using the internal drive or the external drive. A device should not lead you to believe it is reading/writing when it is not. It does this whether or not a drive is in. It does it with a drive in and no eSATA or usb hooked up. Now move on...


----------



## P Smith

forget it and continue use your rasberry pi, perhaps it will tech you how to do programming something

the dock and it LEDs working as designed and your conclusion is out of base

enough to demonstrate your missing knowledge

Stop confuse ppl with your incorrect conclusions


----------



## RunnerFL

P Smith said:


> Stop confuse ppl with your incorrect conclusions


You're apparently talking to yourself again.

Add me to your ignore list if you think what I say is unfounded. I provided proof, proof isn't good enough for you.


----------



## harsh

P Smith said:


> OK, OK ... those ppl who has moderate soldering skills


That lets out most Electrical Engineers that I've worked with.


----------



## Rich

P Smith said:


> OK, OK ... those ppl who has moderate soldering skills
> 
> excluding those who has sledgehammer nearby and short temper


I don't mind soldering big items, I don't like soldering on PC boards. I'll take a blowtorch over a soldering gun every time.

Rich


----------



## Rich

RunnerFL said:


> Since I've been messing with Raspberry Pi's now for a bit I've gotten pretty good at working with small switches again. lol
> 
> As for the dock all I have to do is plug in power and the red light just goes nuts. It still works fine but the red light doesn't only mean it's reading/writing. It's been that way since I got it and I haven't had any problem with it other than the red led not being reliable.


Huh. An anomaly, perhaps? I know they've changed how the docks work since I started using them. The newer models do things the older models didn't, such as having both lights blink as the HDD spins up and then go to solid blue when the HDD is finished spinning up. I find that quite handy. I don't understand why the new models still blink when the HDD is not recognized. That should be fixed.

Rich


----------



## Rich

P Smith said:


> why ppl decide to make such statements publicly ?
> oh boy !
> 
> "the red led not being reliable"
> No need to re-post nonsense; it's enough of the demonstration inability to properly describe the feature of the dock.
> 
> It is working as DESIGNED !
> 
> Frequent blinking without HDD means internal controller POLLING the connector (SATA).
> 
> Blinks each time when SATA interface is active, ie read/write/etc cmd getting through is other functionality of the red LED.
> 
> [Why it's outside of comprehensions of other ppl, it has different different place to discuss ]


One more time: On several occasions, I've had the lights blinking and the HDD has NOT been recognized by the HR. The original docks I bought did not do this, they only blinked when the HDD was recognized.

Rich


----------



## Rich

P Smith said:


> forget it and continue use your rasberry pi, perhaps it will tech you how to do programming something
> 
> the dock and it LEDs working as designed and your conclusion is out of base
> 
> enough to demonstrate your missing knowledge
> 
> Stop confuse ppl with your incorrect conclusions


The way to stop confusing people is to make sure that they know the docks blinking lights can no longer be trusted to tell you the HR has recognized the external HDD. I don't know if they were designed (or redesigned, the old docks worked as you think they should, but the new ones don't) to work the way they do now, but I wish they'd redesign them so they work like the first models.

Rich


----------



## Rich

harsh said:


> That lets out most Electrical Engineers that I've worked with.


Been my experience too. But, the place I worked had strict rules about salaried folk using tools, so I can't really say I ever saw one try to solder anything.

Rich


----------



## detroit_fan

Rich said:


> I just had one go bad and got a new one in return. Very easy people to deal with. First time I tried to return one, usually just threw them out when they went bad. I think I had to pay the shipping to them, tho. Still cheaper than buying a new one.
> 
> Rich


i'm having a heck of a time getting them to do anything. yesterday i called only to be told they were all at lunch. then called back and talked to someone who i could barely understand, he asked for my email and said he would sent me instructions, he never did. so then i emailed them throught the website, they didn't reply. to day i called again, got voicemail and left my email and issue again, still no reply.


----------



## Rich

detroit_fan said:


> i'm having a heck of a time getting them to do anything. yesterday i called only to be told they were all at lunch. then called back and talked to someone who i could barely understand, he asked for my email and said he would sent me instructions, he never did. so then i emailed them throught the website, they didn't reply. to day i called again, got voicemail and left my email and issue again, still no reply.


Now that you mention it, I did receive instructions on how to mail it back. First time I've ever paid shipping costs on the return of a defective device under warranty. Hardly seemed worth it. Good luck.

Rich


----------



## detroit_fan

Rich said:


> Now that you mention it, I did receive instructions on how to mail it back. First time I've ever paid shipping costs on the return of a defective device under warranty. Hardly seemed worth it. Good luck.
> 
> Rich


any suggestion on an inexpensive alternative to the blackX?


----------



## RunnerFL

detroit_fan said:


> any suggestion on an inexpensive alternative to the blackX?


If you don't mind potential fan noise, xtc recommended this one in another thread:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004AA4E8K/ref=oh_details_o06_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1&tag=5336432741-20

I've used the fanless version in the past and had zero issues with it.


----------



## CCarncross

detroit_fan said:


> any suggestion on an inexpensive alternative to the blackX?


The BlacX is an inexpensive alternative already if you want something that is reliable. They can be had for about $35 or less when you find them on sale.


----------



## Hotelone

Rosewill RX-358 V2 BLK Not Recognized By My HR24/100

I bought a Rosewill RX-358 V2 BLK from Amazon to replace my increasingly noisy Antec MX-1 that's been a workhorse for my HR24/100 for a bunch of years. No matter how many long spin-ups I allowed the Rosewill before powering up the DVR, how many different eSATA cables I tried the HR24 never found the enclosure. There was a very brief disk access light blip at the "Almost There..." screen, but no joy at all in the end. I finally gave up and put the HD back in the Antec and had, as usual, immediate success. Too bad, the Rosewill was cheaper, seemed well built and was quieter to my ears than what many others have reported on this thread - seemed very quiet to me. I'll have to try one of the other enclosures suggested on this thread since the MX-1 is no longer made by Antec and very pricy from the sources I've found on the web.

Edit: Ordered the Thermaltake Max 5.


----------



## Rich

detroit_fan said:


> any suggestion on an inexpensive alternative to the blackX?


Nope, I really like the TT docks. I am used to using them and understand them. There are other alternatives, of course, but I have no interest in them. When I find something that works well and is easily understood, I kinda stick with it unless something comes along to blow its doors off. I've been very upfront with the problems I've had with the TT docks and those issues are easily dealt with. And they are cheap.

Rich


----------



## Rich

RunnerFL said:


> If you don't mind potential fan noise, xtc recommended this one in another thread:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004AA4E8K/ref=oh_details_o06_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1&tag=5336432741-20
> 
> I've used the fanless version in the past and had zero issues with it.


There have been several post about problems with the Rosewill line. Enough to make me wary of the brand.

Rich


----------



## Rich

CCarncross said:


> The BlacX is an inexpensive alternative already if you want something that is reliable. They can be had for about $35 or less when you find them on sale.


Every time I buy one, it's closer to the $40 mark. I guess I just miss the sales. My luck...

Rich


----------



## Rich

Hotelone said:


> Rosewill RX-358 V2 BLK Not Recognized By My HR24/100
> 
> I bought a Rosewill RX-358 V2 BLK from Amazon to replace my increasingly noisy Antec MX-1 that's been a workhorse for my HR24/100 for a bunch of years. No matter how many long spin-ups I allowed the Rosewill before powering up the DVR, how many different eSATA cables I tried the HR24 never found the enclosure. There was a very brief disk access light blip at the "Almost There..." screen, but no joy at all in the end. I finally gave up and put the HD back in the Antec and had, as usual, immediate success. Too bad, the Rosewill was cheaper, seemed well built and was quieter to my ears than what many others have reported on this thread - seemed very quiet to me. I'll have to try one of the other enclosures suggested on this thread since the MX-1 is no longer made by Antec and very pricy from the sources I've found on the web.
> 
> Edit: Ordered the Thermaltake Max 5.





Hotelone said:


> Rosewill RX-358 V2 BLK Not Recognized By My HR24/100
> 
> I bought a Rosewill RX-358 V2 BLK from Amazon to replace my increasingly noisy Antec MX-1 that's been a workhorse for my HR24/100 for a bunch of years. No matter how many long spin-ups I allowed the Rosewill before powering up the DVR, how many different eSATA cables I tried the HR24 never found the enclosure. There was a very brief disk access light blip at the "Almost There..." screen, but no joy at all in the end. I finally gave up and put the HD back in the Antec and had, as usual, immediate success. Too bad, the Rosewill was cheaper, seemed well built and was quieter to my ears than what many others have reported on this thread - seemed very quiet to me. I'll have to try one of the other enclosures suggested on this thread since the MX-1 is no longer made by Antec and very pricy from the sources I've found on the web.
> 
> Edit: Ordered the Thermaltake Max 5.


Please let us know how you make out with that enclosure. Your experience with the Rosewill enclosure mirrors the experiences of other members who have tried them.

Rich


----------



## detroit_fan

RunnerFL said:


> If you don't mind potential fan noise, xtc recommended this one in another thread:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004AA4E8K/ref=oh_details_o06_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1&tag=5336432741-20
> 
> I've used the fanless version in the past and had zero issues with it.


thanks, i'll look into that one


Rich said:


> Nope, I really like the TT docks. I am used to using them and understand them. There are other alternatives, of course, but I have no interest in them. When I find something that works well and is easily understood, I kinda stick with it unless something comes along to blow its doors off. I've been very upfront with the problems I've had with the TT docks and those issues are easily dealt with. And they are cheap.
> 
> Rich


Thanks Rich. the main reason i want something different is becaue of the way they have treated me during the warranty claim on this. If they would have said it's only 1 year warranty i would be fine with that, but when i call them they pretend to take down my info and say they will send me instructions, but they don't. I can barely understand any of them on the phone, and they refuse to answer my emails. i'd just rather not give them and more of my money if this is the way they treat customers. i like to reward good customer serivce, even if it is more expensive.

While reviewing other docks, i came across a review where a guy took a toothpick and wedged it alongside the power button to hold it in. I've tried it an it's been good for a few days now. Not sure how long it will last, but it shoud give me time to figure out a replacement.


----------



## RunnerFL

Rich said:


> There have been several post about problems with the Rosewill line. Enough to make me wary of the brand.
> 
> Rich


Yeah, I see that now. After checking I realized the fanless enclosure I was successfully using is a NexStar not a Rosewill. My bad!


----------



## Rich

detroit_fan said:


> thanks, i'll look into that one
> Thanks Rich. the main reason i want something different is becaue of the way they have treated me during the warranty claim on this. If they would have said it's only 1 year warranty i would be fine with that, but when i call them they pretend to take down my info and say they will send me instructions, but they don't. I can barely understand any of them on the phone, and they refuse to answer my emails. i'd just rather not give them and more of my money if this is the way they treat customers. i like to reward good customer serivce, even if it is more expensive.
> 
> While reviewing other docks, i came across a review where a guy took a toothpick and wedged it alongside the power button to hold it in. I've tried it an it's been good for a few days now. Not sure how long it will last, but it shoud give me time to figure out a replacement.


Ah, now I remember. I've only returned one and I had no problems with it, but the guy didn't sound friendly. I can understand your frustration.

Rich


----------



## Choir

Choir said:


> Decided to upgrade the storage on my HR34.
> 
> Ordered a 3TB WD AV-GP hard drive (WD30EURS) and a Thermaltake enclosure (ST0021U).
> I wanted to get the Antec MX-1 but it is out of stock everywhere, I am wondering if it has been discontinued.
> 
> I am going to try and set it up this weekend.
> What is the procedure?
> RBR on the HR34 and power on the enclosure while the HR34 is rebooting?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Choir





Hotelone said:


> Rosewill RX-358 V2 BLK Not Recognized By My HR24/100
> 
> I bought a Rosewill RX-358 V2 BLK from Amazon to replace my increasingly noisy Antec MX-1 that's been a workhorse for my HR24/100 for a bunch of years. No matter how many long spin-ups I allowed the Rosewill before powering up the DVR, how many different eSATA cables I tried the HR24 never found the enclosure. There was a very brief disk access light blip at the "Almost There..." screen, but no joy at all in the end. I finally gave up and put the HD back in the Antec and had, as usual, immediate success. Too bad, the Rosewill was cheaper, seemed well built and was quieter to my ears than what many others have reported on this thread - seemed very quiet to me. I'll have to try one of the other enclosures suggested on this thread since the MX-1 is no longer made by Antec and very pricy from the sources I've found on the web.
> 
> Edit: Ordered the Thermaltake Max 5.





Rich said:


> Please let us know how you make out with that enclosure. Your experience with the Rosewill enclosure mirrors the experiences of other members who have tried them.
> 
> Rich


I have had the Thermaltake Max 5 (model ST0012u) on my HR34 since the end of March and it has been working flawlessly.

Choir


----------



## Rich

Choir said:


> I have had the Thermaltake Max 5 (model ST0012u) on my HR34 since the end of March and it has been working flawlessly.
> 
> Choir


Quiet?

Rich


----------



## Hotelone

I had immediate success with the Thermaltake Max 5 after my previously posted fail with the Rosewill RX-358 V2 BLK. The Max 5 is very quiet, two fans and there's a switch to turn off the gaudy fan lights despite some web comments I'd read. There is a very large bright blue disk access light on the front, nothing a little black electrical tape can't fix. Thanks for everyones help on this thread!


----------



## P Smith

you underestimate iron tool  I could make this light dim or change its color ... no limits for a handyman !


----------



## Hotelone

you underestimate iron tool  I could make this light dim or change its color ... no limits for a handyman !


I'm intrigued, please explain...


----------



## P Smith

it's easy: open the box, remove PCB with a controller, find where is locate a resistor what limit a current of the LED and replace it to higher value: say it was 220 Ohm, you'll put 330 Ohm; or change the LED to green one ... so using soldering iron you could do that easy


----------



## Choir

Rich said:


> Quiet?
> 
> Rich


Whisper quiet.

Choir


----------



## Starrbuck

I'm currently using two BlacX enclosures on my Genie and HR24, but the thing I do not like about them is they leave the drive exposed to dust and accidental touching of running components. I would prefer something enclosed and something with active cooling.


----------



## P Smith

it's not a matter of the dock but cleaning a house or/and prevent dust coming into it


----------



## Rich

Starrbuck said:


> I'm currently using two BlacX enclosures on my Genie and HR24, but the thing I do not like about them is they leave the drive exposed to dust and accidental touching of running components. I would prefer something enclosed and something with active cooling.


I've never had a dust problem, you'll see that with enclosures that suck in air. Nothing exposed is "hot" on a TT dock.

Rich


----------



## Rich

P Smith said:


> it's not a matter of the dock but cleaning a house or/and prevent dust coming into it


I use one of my docks in my utility room, certainly the room that is the dustiest in the house and have never had a problem.

Rich


----------



## CCarncross

Rich said:


> I've never had a dust problem, you'll see that with enclosures that suck in air. Nothing exposed is "hot" on a TT dock.
> 
> Rich


Not hot, but they do get reasonably warm...much warmer than in an actively cooled enclosure. I've had 2 HDD failures in the last 2 years that I switched to the docks. I had zero HDD failures in the 1st 3 years using the Antec MX-1 enclosures. I had one fan go bad in that time but the drive was fine....


----------



## Rich

CCarncross said:


> Not hot, but they do get reasonably warm...much warmer than in an actively cooled enclosure. I've had 2 HDD failures in the last 2 years that I switched to the docks. I had zero HDD failures in the 1st 3 years using the Antec MX-1 enclosures. I had one fan go bad in that time but the drive was fine....


I don't recall ever having a bad drive in an MX-1 either. I'd have to check my Amazon account to see how long I've been using the docks...July 21, 2010. Got my first one. Never bought anything other external device since then. I've lost an old, probably the first EADS I bought, 2TB drive. I sent one back I wasn't sure of (turned out to be a TT problem) and got a new one without any problems. I have had some problems with the docks over the years tho.

Not bad for a three year stretch. Haven't lost an internal 2TB drive yet.

Rich


----------



## GAM

My MX-1 has been great also, too bad they stopped making them.


----------



## Starrbuck

The great thing for me about the MX-1 was it was completely enclosed. Too bad the fans failed or I would still be using the two that I had...


----------



## Rich

Starrbuck said:


> The great thing for me about the MX-1 was it was completely enclosed. Too bad the fans failed or I would still be using the two that I had...


Try a TT dock, I've never had a problem with the fans on them.

Rich


----------



## Starrbuck

Rich said:


> Try a TT dock, I've never had a problem with the fans on them.
> 
> Rich


I have two TT docks. I would prefer an active cooling enclosure so that the drives are better protected. (I already posted this a few messages ago...)


----------



## bfrost

I _think_ that I have search enough without success prior to posting. Maybe I am searching for the wrong thing.

Is there something special needed to use a dock with a 4 TB drive? Most of the ones linked in this posting have 2TB (or 2.5TB) size limits in their description. Will the TT that keeps getting linked work? It is listed with a 2.5TB limit on amazon.

I bought the RX-358 and I am getting errors with it. I borrowed a dual SATA duplicator from a friend and it isn't having the problem so it looks like the enclosure is the issue.

thoughts?


----------



## Rich

bfrost said:


> I _think_ that I have search enough without success prior to posting. Maybe I am searching for the wrong thing.
> 
> Is there something special needed to use a dock with a 4 TB drive? Most of the ones linked in this posting have 2TB (or 2.5TB) size limits in their description. Will the TT that keeps getting linked work? It is listed with a 2.5TB limit on amazon.
> 
> I bought the RX-358 and I am getting errors with it. I borrowed a dual SATA duplicator from a friend and it isn't having the problem so it looks like the enclosure is the issue.
> 
> thoughts?


I'm not sure I would trust the manufacturer's data on how big an HDD their devices will work with. In the past they've been wrong. The only way to know for sure is to try one. Please post your findings.

Rich


----------



## Mufatu

Thanks to the help in this forum, I'll be going with a WD30EURS. I am looking to avoid a Thermaltake (TT) Dock, however. Has anyone had any experience with the Anker Uspeed USB 3.0 & eSATA to SATA External Hard Drive Docking Station. I want to do an external dock, but I want it to be reliable over the long-haul, especially considering it will be always-on.

Thanks!
Eric


----------



## P Smith

the dock is new, nobody has a experience for long run


----------



## Rich

Mufatu said:


> Thanks to the help in this forum, I'll be going with a WD30EURS. I am looking to avoid a Thermaltake (TT) Dock, however. Has anyone had any experience with the Anker Uspeed USB 3.0 & eSATA to SATA External Hard Drive Docking Station. I want to do an external dock, but I want it to be reliable over the long-haul, especially considering it will be always-on.
> 
> Thanks!
> Eric


Just read some of the reviews on it and it sounds good. Be interesting to see how you make out with it. Please let us know.

Rich


----------



## RunnerFL

For anyone who's looking for a well built, decently priced, eSATA enclosure check this one out:

http://www.amazon.com/Sans-Digital-MobileSTOR-Enclosure-MS1UT/dp/B009QVQ6CU/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1376764080&sr=1-3&keywords=ms4ut

I haven't used it personally but I haven't had a single issue with any SansDigital enclosures on my HR's.


----------



## avonabudget

I have an HR24-100 running ESATA with WD20EURS & TT Max 5 and an HR34-700 running ESATA with WD30EURS & TT Max 5. Both setups running with no issues.

For five years I have had an HR21-700 running an ESATA setup with WD10000CSRTL & an Antec MX-1.


----------



## Ed Snape

Mufatu said:


> Thanks to the help in this forum, I'll be going with a WD30EURS. I am looking to avoid a Thermaltake (TT) Dock, however. Has anyone had any experience with the Anker Uspeed USB 3.0 & eSATA to SATA External Hard Drive Docking Station. I want to do an external dock, but I want it to be reliable over the long-haul, especially considering it will be always-on.
> 
> Thanks!
> Eric





Rich said:


> Just read some of the reviews on it and it sounds good. Be interesting to see how you make out with it. Please let us know.
> 
> Rich


Just ordered the Anker. Will report back. MX1 finally got too noisy to tolerate.. Will I be able to simply move drive from MX1 to Anker or will a format be required? Has anyone just unplugged MX1 fan and used MX1 as fan-less sled?
Ed


----------



## Rich

Yup, you can move the HDDs from one enclosure to another without the HDD being reformatted. All your content will play. All the external devices work in this manner.

I would not try the MX-1 without the fan. 

Rich


----------



## Hotelone

You won't need to re-format, if the Anker chipset is compatible it will work with everything intact. When my MX1 got noisy I got a TT enclosure, I wouldn't use any solution without a fan - it gets too hot in the enclosed environment my gear is in. After the fact I did wonder why I didn't just take a look at replacing the MX1's fan. I'll take a look and see how hard it would be.


----------



## P Smith

Ed Snape said:


> Just ordered the Anker. Will report back. MX1 finally got too noisy to tolerate.. Will I be able to simply move drive from MX1 to Anker or *will a format be required?* Has anyone just unplugged MX1 fan and used MX1 as fan-less sled?
> Ed


Will not re-format and all your SL and events will be there.


----------



## Ed Snape

Hotelone said:


> You won't need to re-format, if the Anker chipset is compatible it will work with everything intact. When my MX1 got noisy I got a TT enclosure, I wouldn't use any solution without a fan - it gets too hot in the enclosed environment my gear is in. After the fact I did wonder why I didn't just take a look at replacing the MX1's fan. I'll take a look and see how hard it would be.





P Smith said:


> Will not re-format and all your SL and events will be there.


Thanks for your helpful replies. Just as you both stated no need to re-format. The Anker dock comes nicely packaged with included eSATA and USB 3 cables, and wall wart power supply. The first time I powered everything up the DVR reverted to its internal drive, but a red button reboot engaged the external Anker docked WD 1 TB drive. 1 Solid Blue LED for power and 1 flickering blue LED for drive activity. Socketing of the drive seems firm, not sloppy. No fan, but major portions of the drive sides and end are directly exposed to air. 
Previously the drive ran for about 24 hours in the fan less MX1 with cover removed. Temperature rise seemed slight, although I have no means for measurement other than touching the side. Time will tell us how durable the setup is

Ed


----------



## Rich

Ed Snape said:


> Thanks for your helpful replies. Just as you both stated no need to re-format. The Anker dock comes nicely packaged with included eSATA and USB 3 cables, and wall wart power supply. The first time I powered everything up the DVR reverted to its internal drive, but a red button reboot engaged the external Anker docked WD 1 TB drive. 1 Solid Blue LED for power and 1 flickering blue LED for drive activity. Socketing of the drive seems firm, not sloppy. No fan, but major portions of the drive sides and end are directly exposed to air.
> _*Previously the drive ran for about 24 hours in the fan less MX1 with cover removed. Temperature rise seemed slight, although I have no means for measurement other than touching the side. Time will tell us how durable the setup is*_
> 
> Ed


I think most HDD are rated to run at no more than ~150 degrees F. Interesting. Without that monstrous fan running and the cover off, you really have a "dock" of sorts. First time I opened an MX1, I could not believe how big that fan was.

Rich


----------



## fullcourt81

My WD 20EVDS in a MX1 docking station just failed after 3 years of use. The fan is not spinning all the time, and I think that the hard drive got too hot. 
Now going with a WD 20EURS and a Thermaltake BlackX. Hope to get another 3 years out of the new drive on my HR24-100.


----------



## spunkyvision

fullcourt81 said:


> My WD 20EVDS in a MX1 docking station just failed after 3 years of use. The fan is not spinning all the time, and I think that the hard drive got too hot.
> Now going with a WD 20EURS and a Thermaltake BlackX. Hope to get another 3 years out of the new drive on my HR24-100.


Check the warranty on the MX-1. I had 3-4 of them where fan failed and contacted Antec and they RMA'd all of them at no cost. You can't or at least couldn't get your own fan before. 
Is the drive bad? If not just remove it from the Antec and pop it in the dock and you haven't lost anything. If the drive is bad then you are doing the right thing. 
Only thing I don't like on the BlackX is the power button eventually stops working. Again, mine are a little older (maybe better design now) and Thermaltake replaced them but you need to have a spare dock or enclosure just in case. Only if tv matters to you that much. I can't miss my Sports


----------



## fullcourt81

spunkyvision said:


> Check the warranty on the MX-1. I had 3-4 of them where fan failed and contacted Antec and they RMA'd all of them at no cost. You can't or at least couldn't get your own fan before.
> Is the drive bad? If not just remove it from the Antec and pop it in the dock and you haven't lost anything. If the drive is bad then you are doing the right thing.
> Only thing I don't like on the BlackX is the power button eventually stops working. Again, mine are a little older (maybe better design now) and Thermaltake replaced them but you need to have a spare dock or enclosure just in case. Only if tv matters to you that much. I can't miss my Sports


thanks for the info.
yes, drive is bad, could not get laptop to recognize it. popped a spare 320G hard drive into the MX1 and the DVR formatted it automatically, so MX1 works, but fan is sputtering.
I will contact Antek, I could always use a replacement for something else. I have a spot behind my TV for the Thermaltake, so it should run cool.
I am doing this to be ready for College football. got to fit all those games onto the external drive.


----------



## spunkyvision

No problem. I know how you feel. I record English soccer and College football on Saturdays so all of my boxes are recording, spouse not happy on Saturdays. ;-)


----------



## Tidalcloud

I'm a big fan of this http://www.amazon.com/Rosewill-Aluminum-3-5-Inch-External-Enclosure/dp/B00545ZA92/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1378174511&sr=8-1&keywords=rosewill+meta enclosure. Been working like a charm for me for some time. Keeps the drive nice and cool.


----------



## Kevin L

Hi, All.

I had three HR20s (owned) that I upgraded the internal drives to WD 2TB Green drives. In May, I picked up an HR44-500, a SansDigital TR4UTBPN 4-bay hardware RAID 5 eSATA enclosure, and four WD Red 2TB WD20EFRX drives. Before upgrading the internal drives on the HR20s I had used single-drive eSATA enclosures on them, so am very familiar with the process. I set up the HR44 and the TR4UTBPN eSATA and four drives, and fired it up. I didn't give it a second thought until this week when I noticed some recording were marked for possible deletion and there was less than 10% free space. What, 6TB filled already? Since there's no way to check in System Info whether you are using eSATA or not, I could only assume I was recording on the internal drive. Shutting the HR44 and eSATA down, I removed the eSATA and restarted the HR44. Sure enough, there was the playlist I was using, so it was never recording on the eSATA. I tried several times to restart the HR44 with the eSATA attached, but no joy. Suspecting a bad cable, I ordered another. Did not help. Since the new TV season starts this month, and I record entire seasons of some shows before watching, it was urgent to get this working. I've already removed two of the HR20s and the third will go soon. My TiVo Premier XL is being replaced Friday with a new TiVo Roamio Pro six-tuner with 3GB. This was I can record shows on both DirecTV and Comcast. I also record OTA on the HR20 for some can't miss shows, so all bases are covered: satellite, cable, and OTA. When I pull the HR20 I'll add an AM21 to the HR44.

I finally got the HR44 to see the eSATA RAID. I disconnected the RAID box from the HR44, hooking it up to the HR20, restarting, and letting the HR20 process it. I then reversed it. When I started the HR44, it's now seeing the TR4UTBPN and its four 2TB Western Digital Red drives in RAID5. 6TB of space. I hope this helps others who may have a problem with eSATA.

Kevin


----------



## P Smith

thanks for reminding,
we got already a discussion why HR34 and HR44 do require to init new eSATA drive by other DVR from HR2x family; real reason unknown, perhaps it's just a bug or missed a chunk of FW code


----------



## RunnerFL

P Smith said:


> thanks for reminding,
> we got already a discussion why HR34 and HR44 do require to init new eSATA drive by other DVR from HR2x family; real reason unknown, perhaps it's just a bug or missed a chunk of FW code


The HR34 does not require that and the only HR44 that anyone has had to do that with is the HR44-500.


----------



## Kevin L

That's what I have, the HR44-500. I searched the forums for answers, but missed that. Glad I figured it out. In any event, the 6TB of space is nice; about 40 shows recorded and showing 98% free.

Kevin


----------



## RunnerFL

Kevin L said:


> That's what I have, the HR44-500. I searched the forums for answers, but missed that. Glad I figured it out. In any event, the 6TB of space is nice; about 40 shows recorded and showing 98% free.
> 
> Kevin


Yeah, I have a 6TB array on mine as well. I like not having to ever worry about space. I also tested up to 12TB and that worked great too.


----------



## inkahauts

I haven't been paying enough attention, anyone try a red drive from wd yet? Thinking about getting a 4tb one.


----------



## inkahauts

RunnerFL said:


> Yeah, I have a 6TB array on mine as well. I like not having to ever worry about space. I also tested up to 12TB and that worked great too.


Which array did you finally get running solidly on your genie?


----------



## Kevin L

inkahauts said:


> I haven't been paying enough attention, anyone try a red drive from wd yet? Thinking about getting a 4tb one.


I'm using four 2TB Red drives in my RAID 5. If you're just going to use a single drive, the Red isn't necessary; Green works just fine. If you're going RAID, then Red is the way to go. Besides the 4-bay TR4UTBPN I'm using with the Genie, I have two Synology DS412+ NAS units (4-bay). One has four 2TB Red drives; the other four 3TB Red drives. All work great.

Kevin


----------



## inkahauts

Well, the reason IM thinking of going red is that eventually ill work up and get enough drives to set up a raid... but Im not going to spend the money for that today, that's a lot of drives.


----------



## RunnerFL

inkahauts said:


> Which array did you finally get running solidly on your genie?


The same one you had, the SansDigital 4bay RAID 5 unit.


----------



## Kevin L

inkahauts said:


> Well, the reason IM thinking of going red is that eventually ill work up and get enough drives to set up a raid... but Im not going to spend the money for that today, that's a lot of drives.


That makes sense, then. No problem with a Red in single drive, other than it's a little more money than Green.


----------



## acostapimps

What happened to External e-sata drives? Do they sell any 2tb anymore that works with D DVR's?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using DBSTalk mobile app


----------



## P Smith

acostapimps said:


> What happened to External e-sata drives? Do they sell any 2tb anymore that works with D DVR's?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using DBSTalk mobile app


Isn't whole thread about that ? :scratch:


----------



## inkahauts

Kevin L said:


> That makes sense, then. No problem with a Red in single drive, other than it's a little more money than Green.


Yeah Green just couldn't hack it in the raid enclosure though for me. Which drives are you using now Runner. I havent tried the raid in ages, so I have no idea if its working better now, as I recall we had some issues with stuttering way back.


----------



## avonabudget

FYI, Thermaltake BlacX External 2.5" & 3.5" USB 2.0 & eSATA SATA Hard Drive Docking Station $19.99 after Rebate + Free Shipping: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?SID=hW3tqheWEeO-g0KlSFOw_QQxT3_C.dh3_0_0_0&AID=10440897&PID=1225267&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-_-cables-_-na-_-na&Item=N82E16817153071&cm_sp=


----------



## RunnerFL

inkahauts said:


> Which drives are you using now Runner.


I'm using nothing but Seagate Constellation CS drives in my RAID setups. Right now my 44 has 4x2TB.


----------



## jmhays

I have a HR24-500 with a 2TB WD WD2002FAEX internal drive in a TT enclosure and I think the dive may be failing. I am not sure if this drive was meant to be used 24x7 connected to a DVR and that may be part of the problem. Is it possible to clone my existing drive and copy everything on it over to the new drive? I don't want to use it on a different DVR, just replace the existing drive connected to the same DVR.

If I can't get a warranty replacement of the drive (build date was 9/12), what is the recommended 2TB internal drive to use with my DVR?


----------



## inkahauts

I have a HR24-500 with a 2TB WD WD2002FAEX internal drive in a TT enclosure and I think the dive may be failing. I am not sure if this drive was meant to be used 24x7 connected to a DVR and that may be part of the problem. Is it possible to clone my existing drive and copy everything on it over to the new drive? I don't want to use it on a different DVR, just replace the existing drive connected to the same DVR.

If I can't get a warranty replacement of the drive (build date was 9/12), what is the recommended 2TB internal drive to use with my DVR?
yes you can clone it and use it. You can even clone it to a bigger drive and have more space. Look for the how to copy thread. 


Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk mobile app


----------



## toricred

He could clone it to a larger drive, but isn't the HR24 still limited to 2TB?


----------



## P Smith

toricred said:


> He could clone it to a larger drive, but isn't the HR24 still limited to 2TB?


there was some posts indicating new FW could support bigger drives ...


----------



## P Smith

jmhays said:


> I have a HR24-500 with a 2TB WD WD2002FAEX internal drive in a TT enclosure and I think the dive may be failing. I am not sure if this drive was meant to be used 24x7 connected to a DVR and that may be part of the problem. Is it possible to clone my existing drive and copy everything on it over to the new drive? I don't want to use it on a different DVR, just replace the existing drive connected to the same DVR.
> 
> If I can't get a warranty replacement of the drive (build date was 9/12), what is the recommended 2TB internal drive to use with my DVR?


It would be good measure of your drive/enclosure troubleshooting, if you would make bootable CD with MHDD program and after connecting the drive by SATA/eSATA to your PC, would get SMART, run Scan+Remap and get second SMART. Posting all snapshots here - we will help to to read that info.
Second choice - Victoria v 4.42b for Windows.


----------



## SVTarHeel

I have some as-yet unresolved issues with my HR24/500s that I'm still hoping turns out to be a bad connector, switch or LNB. In the event that it's DVR related, I'm trying to formulate a literal backup plan - both 500GB have less than 5% available. I remembered bookmarking this thread several months ago. I thought I remembered something along the lines of using an eternal dock to move or copy recordings from the DVR. I looked through the thread for an hour or so last night but didn't see that kind of info. Is my memory faulty or did I just miss it?


----------



## inkahauts

I have some as-yet unresolved issues with my HR24/500s that I'm still hoping turns out to be a bad connector, switch or LNB. In the event that it's DVR related, I'm trying to formulate a literal backup plan - both 500GB have less than 5% available. I remembered bookmarking this thread several months ago. I thought I remembered something along the lines of using an eternal dock to move or copy recordings from the DVR. I looked through the thread for an hour or so last night but didn't see that kind of info. Is my memory faulty or did I just miss it?


There is an entire other thread dedicated to copying drives for use with the exact same receiver. I suggests using the original post and the original software its easier. 


Sent from my iPad using DBSTalk mobile app


----------



## RunnerFL

toricred said:


> He could clone it to a larger drive, but isn't the HR24 still limited to 2TB?


Yes, it is still limited to 2TB.


----------



## RunnerFL

P Smith said:


> there was some posts indicating new FW could support bigger drives ...


But it doesn't.


----------



## Rich

SVTarHeel said:


> I have some as-yet unresolved issues with my HR24/500s that I'm still hoping turns out to be a bad connector, switch or LNB. In the event that it's DVR related, I'm trying to formulate a literal backup plan - both 500GB have less than 5% available. I remembered bookmarking this thread several months ago. I thought I remembered something along the lines of using an eternal dock to move or copy recordings from the DVR. I looked through the thread for an hour or so last night but didn't see that kind of info. Is my memory faulty or did I just miss it?


Could those issues you're having be caused by your HDDs being full? You could test that by putting an external drive on each of them. I have no issues with my 24-500s, but I use 2TB drives in all of them and they rarely get over the 50% full mark. I do have to flush the Guide data on them more frequently than I do with the 24-100s or my one 24-200. The 24-500s are a good machine when they run properly.

Rich


----------



## Bruce M.

So I have a strange situation, or at least it runs counter to the orthodoxy on external drives and DTV units as I understood it.

Have the "standard", or *a* standard, 3 TB Western Digital drive in a Thermaltek enclosure. Worked fine on my HR34 for 3 or 4 weeks after a recent free upgrade. But that unit was giving me a message that my TV could not accept DTV's 1080p signal, which I knew was wrong, since the prior HR21-100 on that TV passed 1080p, complete with a checked 1080p box in the resolutions sub-menu, just fine.

After wrestling with three different layers of CSR's, I finally got a tech to the house. He brought a HR44 this time, just now available in the Seattle area. After install, the 1080p issue was resolved.

But then a weird thing happened. I reconnected the external drive. All my shows remained on the drive, and viewable, even through the new HR44. Although there is another receiver (HR 24-500) in the house with its own internal drive, and I have Whole Home, I am certain that I am reading the external drive, because it has shows on it that are not part of that receiver's programming, because a test recording I made on the 44's internal drive is not showing up on the play list, and because the remaining capacity percentage showing is precisely the same as it was before the receiver swap.

Is this supposed to happen?


----------



## inkahauts

So I have a strange situation, or at least it runs counter to the orthodoxy on external drives and DTV units as I understood it.

Have the "standard", or a standard, 3 TB Western Digital drive in a Thermaltek enclosure. Worked fine on my HR34 for 3 or 4 weeks after a recent free upgrade. But that unit was giving me a message that my TV could not accept DTV's 1080p signal, which I knew was wrong, since the prior HR21-100 on that TV passed 1080p, complete with a checked 1080p box in the resolutions sub-menu, just fine.

After wrestling with three different layers of CSR's, I finally got a tech to the house. He brought a HR44 this time, just now available in the Seattle area. After install, the 1080p issue was resolved.

But then a weird thing happened. I reconnected the external drive. All my shows remained on the drive, and viewable, even through the new HR44. Although there is another receiver (HR 24-500) in the house with its own internal drive, and I have Whole Home, I am certain that I am reading the external drive, because it has shows on it that are not part of that receiver's programming, because a test recording I made on the 44's internal drive is not showing up on the play list, and because the remaining capacity percentage showing is precisely the same as it was before the receiver swap. 

Is this supposed to happen?


You will notice you can't actually watch any oft chose shows though. You can only see them in the playlist. And yes that's normal. The nice part is at least you don't have to redo any series links, they will work. The bad is you hit play on the old recordings from the other replace genie and it won't play, you might as well delete them now. 


Sent from my iPad using DBSTalk


----------



## harsh

Bruce M. said:


> All my shows remained on the drive, and viewable, even through the new HR44.





inkahauts said:


> You will notice you can't actually watch any oft chose shows though.


It would be a earth shaking revelation indeed if it turned out that Bruce M. is right about the programs being viewable from another DVR's external drive.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

Ok everyone, lets try to stay on the topic of recommended eSATA drives.

:backtotop

Mike


----------



## Bruce M.

harsh said:


> It would be a earth shaking revelation indeed if it turned out that Bruce M. is right about the programs being viewable from another DVR's external drive.


My fault. I randomly tested some of the shows on the list, and each played, but it turns out that I happened to test only shows that had been recorded on the HR24 drive. Damn. Sorry for the bandwidth waste.


----------



## dtparker

Any chance we could get a reasonably current list of external enclosures, disk drives, and e-sata cables that are working for people?

The WD MyBook AV 1TB works great for me, but I want more capacity.

If such a list exists, then please send me a pointer, and excuse the interruption; I confess to not reading all 135 pages of this thread.

thanks,
Dave


----------



## Guitar Hero

How can I tell if my HR44-500 is using the external HDD or not? Besides recording movies and calculating how many hours I can store!

I have a 4TB external HDD.


----------



## CCarncross

Always have 1 recording on the internal for reference


----------



## Rich

dtparker said:


> Any chance we could get a reasonably current list of external enclosures, disk drives, and e-sata cables that are working for people?
> 
> The WD MyBook AV 1TB works great for me, but I want more capacity.
> 
> If such a list exists, then please send me a pointer, and excuse the interruption; I confess to not reading all 135 pages of this thread.
> 
> thanks,
> Dave


We still recommend the Green WD drives. And the Thermaltake docking stations. You can get both at reasonable prices on Amazon. How's that for simplification?

Rich


----------



## Rich

CCarncross said:


> Always have 1 recording on the internal for reference


1 recording that you wouldn't normally record.

Rich


----------



## CCarncross

Rich said:


> 1 recording that you wouldn't normally record.
> 
> Rich


That too, but having just a single recording on the internal drive would pretty much be a dead giveaway which drive you were on as well.


----------



## inkahauts

I just picked up a a red drive 4tb and it's working perfect so far. 


Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk


----------



## Rich

I wouldn't be surprised if we hadn't reached the point where just about any good HDD will play with the HRs. I don't remember the last time I heard of an HDD that wouldn't work. 

Rich


----------



## dtparker

Rich said:


> We still recommend the Green WD drives. And the Thermaltake docking stations. You can get both at reasonable prices on Amazon. How's that for simplification?
> 
> Rich


Great! Thank you!

On the HR24, aren't we still limited to 2TB though? Why are people installing larger drives?

Thanks,
Dave


----------



## CCarncross

dtparker said:


> Great! Thank you!
> 
> On the HR24, aren't we still limited to 2TB though? Why are people installing larger drives?
> 
> Thanks,
> Dave


If you'll notice most of those are people installing larger drives in the HR34/44 models which do not have that limitation. The HR2x models are still limited to 2TB.


----------



## dtparker

Ah that makes sense. How large a drive does the Genie support?



CCarncross said:


> If you'll notice most of those are people installing larger drives in the HR34/44 models which do not have that limitation. The HR2x models are still limited to 2TB.


----------



## peds48

dtparker said:


> Ah that makes sense. How large a drive does the Genie support?


"unlimited" I dont think no one has yet been able to install a HDD big enough to be rejected by the Genies


----------



## dtparker

OK, so an 8-drive Raid-5 with 4tb drives by my math nets around 28tb. Holy Moly, that's a LOT of Wheel of Fortune reruns!


----------



## Rich

dtparker said:


> OK, so an 8-drive Raid-5 with 4tb drives by my math nets around 28tb. Holy Moly, that's a LOT of Wheel of Fortune reruns!


That's also a LOT of content to lose if the Genie goes south. You really have to keep that in mind.

Rich


----------



## Rich

peds48 said:


> "unlimited" I dont think no one has yet been able to install a HDD big enough to be rejected by the Genies


I can't help but wonder what would happen if someone filled up a 10TB drive. Would the Genie slow down? I kinda think it would.

Rich


----------



## BAHitman

60% free with 9TB. No slowdown noticed yet...

Seen from my Samsung Galaxy Note LTE
.


----------



## peds48

BAHitman said:


> 60% free with 9TB. No slowdown noticed yet...
> 
> Seen from my Samsung Galaxy Note LTE
> .


holly molly!!!!!


----------



## Rich

Wouldn't expect a slowdown until you reach about 20% of capacity left.

Rich


----------



## inkahauts

Ive had a hr44 with zero % available on a 2tb drive and it never cared one bit, moved just as fast as when it was empty. Now its got a 4tb hard drive. 

The hr44 are just in a different class.


----------



## Rich

inkahauts said:


> Ive had a hr44 with zero % available on a 2tb drive and it never cared one bit, moved just as fast as when it was empty. Now its got a 4tb hard drive.
> 
> The hr44 are just in a different class.


I dunno. I guess I'll never have one. That last experience with ordering one...

Rich


----------



## dtparker

HR45 will be out before I get one, if the CSRs keep the current posture.


----------



## inkahauts

I dunno. I guess I'll never have one. That last experience with ordering one...

Rich
rich there is zero reason that an hr44 should ever affect any of your Whole Home Service. Ever. That part operates the same except for one thing it can send out three streams instead of one. It's plug and play unless you don't have enough tuner spots in the leg your putting it on then you'd have to swap some stuff around. 


Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk


----------



## Rich

inkahauts said:


> rich there is zero reason that an hr44 should ever affect any of your Whole Home Service. Ever. That part operates the same except for one thing it can send out three streams instead of one. It's plug and play unless you don't have enough tuner spots in the leg your putting it on then you'd have to swap some stuff around.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk


Yup, I had it all figured out and was ready to go. Then the misinformation (can't really call it lying) started and now they can...

Rich


----------



## inkahauts

Hey newegg is having a sale on a 4tb segate drive for 149 today. Didn't grab the details buts one may want to check into it. 


Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk


----------



## dtparker

Just installed a WD20EURS (the 2 gig Green video rated drive) in a Thermaltake Max 5 eSata enclosure. 2 80mm fans are extremely quiet! StarTech eSata cable, initialized under Win7, hooked to my HR23. All is well, so far!

Thanks all!

Dave


----------



## Rich

dtparker said:


> Just installed a WD20EURS (the 2 gig Green video rated drive) in a Thermaltake Max 5 eSata enclosure. 2 80mm fans are extremely quiet! StarTech eSata cable, initialized under Win7, hooked to my HR23. All is well, so far!
> 
> Thanks all!
> 
> Dave


If memory serves me (which it doesn't, usually) I think we've seen the EURS work with some HRs and not work with some. I think that's why I've never bought one. _*CCarncross*_ should be interested in this.

Rich


----------



## Rich

dtparker said:


> Just installed a WD20EURS (the 2 gig Green video rated drive) in a Thermaltake Max 5 eSata enclosure. 2 80mm fans are extremely quiet! StarTech eSata cable, initialized under Win7, hooked to my HR23. All is well, so far!
> 
> Thanks all!
> 
> Dave


You didn't have to initialize the EURS, you should have been able to put it in the enclosure and the 23 would have formatted it. Would have been really interesting if you had put it in the enclosure, have it fail to format and then have success after putting it on your computer and initializing it.

Rich


----------



## dtparker

Sorry, Man - I figured I'd take the path of least resistance. Anyway the drive/enclosure are working fine on my HR23 after 2 days.

This drive: http://www.amazon.com/WD-AV-GP-Video-Hard-Drive/dp/B0042AG9V8/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1381629763&sr=1-1&keywords=WD20EURS
This enclosure: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004G8QETS/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Dave



Rich said:


> You didn't have to initialize the EURS, you should have been able to put it in the enclosure and the 23 would have formatted it. Would have been really interesting if you had put it in the enclosure, have it fail to format and then have success after putting it on your computer and initializing it.
> 
> Rich


----------



## Rich

dtparker said:


> Sorry, Man - I figured I'd take the path of least resistance. Anyway the drive/enclosure are working fine on my HR23 after 2 days.
> 
> This drive: http://www.amazon.com/WD-AV-GP-Video-Hard-Drive/dp/B0042AG9V8/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1381629763&sr=1-1&keywords=WD20EURS
> This enclosure: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004G8QETS/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> Dave


I've alway wanted to try that enclosure. Looks really neat. I've got too many TT docks sitting around to be buying more external devices, tho.

Rich


----------



## Rich

dtparker said:


> Sorry, Man - _*I figured I'd take the path of least resistance.*_ Anyway the drive/enclosure are working fine on my HR23 after 2 days.
> 
> This drive: http://www.amazon.com/WD-AV-GP-Video-Hard-Drive/dp/B0042AG9V8/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1381629763&sr=1-1&keywords=WD20EURS
> This enclosure: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004G8QETS/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> Dave


Nothing wrong with doing that. I've lived that way most of my life and it has worked out quite well. Right now, I'm having a problem ignoring a plate of oatmeal raisin cookies that were just baked. I know the proper thing to do would be to throw them out and tell my wife when she comes home that they were so good I ate them all. That would be the path to take for my own sake. But they're so good... :sure:

Rich


----------



## dtparker

Rich said:


> I've alway wanted to try that enclosure. Looks really neat. I've got too many TT docks sitting around to be buying more external devices, tho.
> 
> Rich


So far, I REALLY like this enclosure. Drive stays nice and cool, and it is quiet. Took all of about 2 minutes to install the drive inside it, as well. Darned near plug and play. May get this setup for my HR24 as well when we're out of space.


----------



## PK6301

Ok, Here is what I have so far.. 
1. Rosewill 3.5" sata to usb 2.0 & e Sata External enclosure RX358 V2
2. A 3 foot eSata cable from Monoprice
What I dont have a clue on is a Drive.. The enclosure will take up to a 2TB so I was thinking of a WD20EURS.. Good Choice ? If so what is a good price ? Sub $100 Sub $90.. I dont know...
I have 2 candidate DVR'S HR24 or HR44
I know it will only 2X the 44, and 3-4X the 24.. where would you put it. I have never done this before, so please be kind.. Thanx

Sent from my GT-P3113 using Tapatalk


----------



## Rich

PK6301 said:


> Ok, Here is what I have so far..
> 1. Rosewill 3.5" sata to usb 2.0 & e Sata External enclosure RX358 V2
> 2. A 3 foot eSata cable from Monoprice
> What I dont have a clue on is a Drive.. The enclosure will take up to a 2TB so I was thinking of a WD20EURS.. Good Choice ? If so what is a good price ? Sub $100 Sub $90.. I dont know...
> I have 2 candidate DVR'S HR24 or HR44
> I know it will only 2X the 44, and 3-4X the 24.. where would you put it. I have never done this before, so please be kind.. Thanx
> 
> Sent from my GT-P3113 using Tapatalk


First, I'd expect the Rosewill to be problematic. If you need an enclosure I'd go for a Thermaltake enclosure. If the EURS works with the enclosure and the 44 right off the bat, I'd find that interesting. I've got a lot of 2TB drives and all are WD Caviar Green drives. None of them are EURS drives. I've tried to read every post on this forum about external drives and I've seen many problems with both the EURS drives and the Rosewill enclosures over the years.

One thing about any of these enclosures: I'm not really sure the makers of the enclosures really know how large a drive will work in their enclosures.

About the 44 and 24. Both need bigger drives for them to really work well. With 5 tuners I'd fill that 1TB drive up pretty quickly. And the 24s with those pitifully small drives cry out for a 2TB drive. Each one of my HRs has a 2TB drive on or in it and all work very well and are dependable. Best advice I can give you is to upgrade both of your HRs to larger drives. And consider the TT docks. They work very well.

Rich


----------



## inkahauts

I'd pop a 3 or 4tb drive in for the genie. Grab a red drive from newegg I think they are on sale right now. They seem very good so far.


----------



## dtparker

I have a WD20EURS in a Thermaltake Max5 with a StarTech eSata cable on my HR23. No issues.


----------



## Rich

dtparker said:


> I have a WD20EURS in a Thermaltake Max5 with a StarTech eSata cable on my HR23. No issues.


The EURS HDDs do have a history of failure with some external devices. Some people just have better luck with them than others.

Rich


----------



## Starrbuck

Rich said:


> First, I'd expect the Rosewill to be problematic.


Why?


----------



## Rich

Starrbuck said:


> Why?


Good question. I read every post about eSATAs and I've read many posts about problems with Rosewill enclosures. Weaknees used them for a bit, then started using another enclosure. Probably because of the same reasons I read in all those posts. Doesn't mean every Rosewill will have problems, just saw too many posts about problems with them to ever buy one.

We don't expect anyone to read the terribly long threads about external HDDs and their devices. If you just read the most recent posts, you'll be fine.

Rich


----------



## alcatholic

You didn't have to initialize the EURS, you should have been able to put it in the enclosure and the 23 would have formatted it. Would have been really interesting if you had put it in the enclosure, have it fail to format and then have success after putting it on your computer and initializing it. 

Rich


Rich,

That is exactly what I did. I have an HR44-500 and 3tb EURS. 

The brand new 3tb EURS that would fail to format. I tried two different enclosures: Thermaltake dock everyone recommends (dual bay), and the Rosswill 358v2 that a few people have had problems with. 

I was about to buy another enclosure, the Max 5, when I decided to try formatting the drive on my iMac. The iMac would only format it in HFS+ not FAT. 

When I transferred the drive to the Rosswill enclosure the HR44 formatted the drive! I had a feeling it would work. Prior to Mac formatting the Rosswill enclosure would spin the drive for about 20 seconds and then spin down. After formatting the drive would keep spinning. I could then plug the drive into the unplugged HR44, plug in the HR44, and everything worked. 

My sense is that the Rosswill enclosure didn't like the unformatted drive, but apparently neither did the dual bay Thermaltake dock. In any case formatting the drive on a PC solved my problem. 


Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk mobile app


----------



## PK6301

Help,
I am getting the supplis ready to upgrade my HR24. I have an enclosure, esata cable, and I know I can use up to a 2TB drive.

Now my question, I also have a HR44. I was thinking of a 3TB but I found some 4TB for a few dollars more. Do they make enclosures that will handle a drive that size, or will I have to set up a RAID.

I am having delusions of grandeur thinking "I can do that" when in reality I dont have a clue. My computer friends do, but not me.

If there are enclosures please let me know model #s.... Thank You..

Sent from my GT-P3113 using Tapatalk


----------



## RunnerFL

Yes, there are single drive enclosures that will support a 4TB drive. I believe the TT Dock is one of them.


----------



## PK6301

Yes, there are single drive enclosures that will support a 4TB drive. I believe the TT Dock is one of them.

Expound please TT Dock ?

Sent from my GT-P3113 using Tapatalk


----------



## RunnerFL

PK6301 said:


> Expound please TT Dock ?
> 
> Sent from my GT-P3113 using Tapatalk


ThermalTake Dock, mentioned many times in this thread.


----------



## PK6301

ThermalTake Dock, mentioned many times in this thread.

Forgive me, I did not take the time to read the previous 2650 posts...

Sent from my GT-P3113 using Tapatalk


----------



## inkahauts

PK6301 said:


> Forgive me, I did not take the time to read the previous 2650 posts...
> 
> Sent from my GT-P3113 using Tapatalk


Well that's just lazy? !rolling

I'm Just kidding. This thread, I'd say read the last three or four pages (40 posts a page) and you are usually up to date,on the latest. We should probably refresh this thread a couple times a year so its easier to read through to be honest.


----------



## Rich

alcatholic said:


> Rich,
> 
> That is exactly what I did. I have an HR44-500 and 3tb EURS.
> 
> The brand new 3tb EURS that would fail to format. I tried two different enclosures: Thermaltake dock everyone recommends (dual bay), and the Rosswill 358v2 that a few people have had problems with.
> 
> I was about to buy another enclosure, the Max 5, when I decided to try formatting the drive on my iMac. The iMac would only format it in HFS+ not FAT.
> 
> When I transferred the drive to the Rosswill enclosure the HR44 formatted the drive! I had a feeling it would work. Prior to Mac formatting the Rosswill enclosure would spin the drive for about 20 seconds and then spin down. After formatting the drive would keep spinning. I could then plug the drive into the unplugged HR44, plug in the HR44, and everything worked.
> 
> My sense is that the Rosswill enclosure didn't like the unformatted drive, but apparently neither did the dual bay Thermaltake dock. In any case formatting the drive on a PC solved my problem.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk mobile app


Good post! Putting the 3TB drive on a 24 would have done the same thing, I think, but what you did is interesting. Did you have a chance to put the 3TB drive in the dock or the Max? Probably would have worked with them, too. Maybe.

Rich


----------



## Rich

RunnerFL said:


> Yes, there are single drive enclosures that will support a 4TB drive. I believe the TT Dock is one of them.


I think I remember someone using a 3TB HDD in a TT dock. Don't know how high you can go in one.

Rich


----------



## Rich

PK6301 said:


> Expound please TT Dock ?
> 
> Sent from my GT-P3113 using Tapatalk


Here's a _*LINK*_.

Rich


----------



## Rich

PK6301 said:


> Forgive me, I did not take the time to read the previous 2650 posts...
> 
> Sent from my GT-P3113 using Tapatalk


I've read them and there's a lot of bad info in the earlier posts. Best to follow _*Inkahaut's *_advice about how to manage these unwieldy threads.

Rich


----------



## purrdue

Hi. I was wondering if any one has successfully used a 3tb eurx drive http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822236602 with a thermaltake BlacX ST0005U and the hr44. I think the only difference between the eurs and eurx is the interface rate eurs 3Gb/s eurx 6Gb/s. according to the specs on wd website. Can Dtv and the hr44 handle the 6GB/s. Any advice would be greatly appreciated as I'm almost out of space because I got the genie to replace hr20 and re recording things I had on the 2tb external hr20 and it filled up quickly. Thanks again for any help concerning those drives.


----------



## Rich

purrdue said:


> Hi. I was wondering if any one has successfully used a 3tb eurx drive http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822236602 with a thermaltake BlacX ST0005U and the hr44. I think the only difference between the eurs and eurx is the interface rate eurs 3Gb/s eurx 6Gb/s. according to the specs on wd website. Can Dtv and the hr44 handle the 6GB/s. Any advice would be greatly appreciated as I'm almost out of space because I got the genie to replace hr20 and re recording things I had on the 2tb external hr20 and it filled up quickly. Thanks again for any help concerning those drives.


Pretty sure it will work. Only way to know for sure is to try it. The EURS drives have been a bit of a problem. You'll want to format the drive in another HR before putting it on the 44-500, I think.

Rich


----------



## purrdue

Thanks. I will try it. I think im using the 2tb eurs in my hr20 but I can't try it in the hr44 without possibly losing the recordings so I might try the eurx and hopefully I won't have any problems. I haven't had any problems with my 2tb eurs knock on wood. Finally got it down to 50% free space.


----------



## P Smith

anyone have it to test ? new 6 TB drive came to the market !

http://www.hgst.com/press-room/press-releases/hgst-ships-6TB-Ultrastar-HE6-helium-filled


----------



## Rich

P Smith said:


> anyone have it to test ? new 6 TB drive came to the market !
> 
> http://www.hgst.com/press-room/press-releases/hgst-ships-6TB-Ultrastar-HE6-helium-filled


It was just introduced. Give it some time to at least get shipped.

Rich


----------



## Sam-SS

I have a HR24 and a new WD RED 3tb drive in a TT Max 5 enclosure. So far, I am not able
to get this to work. I turn on the external drive, after a bit, I plug in the SAT RX. After a while,
I get a message that it is formatting the drive but after a bit I get an error that there was a problem
in formatting the drive. So, I put the drive on my PC running WIN XP in thoughts of formatting
the drive but in Disk Management the drive shows up but it does not list what file system is used
and under status it says "Healthy (GPT Protective Partician)". I do not know what this means
and could not find a way to partician it to FAT32.

Any thoughts on what I might be doing wrong or what I am missing?

...>>Sam


----------



## RunnerFL

Sam-SS said:


> I have a HR24 and a new WD RED 3tb drive in a TT Max 5 enclosure. So far, I am not able
> to get this to work. I turn on the external drive, after a bit, I plug in the SAT RX. After a while,
> I get a message that it is formatting the drive but after a bit I get an error that there was a problem
> in formatting the drive. So, I put the drive on my PC running WIN XP in thoughts of formatting
> the drive but in Disk Management the drive shows up but it does not list what file system is used
> and under status it says "Healthy (GPT Protective Partician)". I do not know what this means
> and could not find a way to partician it to FAT32.
> 
> Any thoughts on what I might be doing wrong or what I am missing?
> 
> ...>>Sam


HR24's only support up to 2TB drives.


----------



## Rich

RunnerFL said:


> HR24's only support up to 2TB drives.


But can't you use a 3TB drive? I could swear others have done this and posted about it. Why you'd want to do that is beyond me, other than the off chance that, suddenly, the 24s will use 3TB HDDs fully. Again, there's that TT Max 5 external device.

Rich


----------



## Sam-SS

I could have sworn that I had read here that someone was successful in using a 3tb drive.

Ritch....I do not know what you mean by "there's that TT Max 5 external device."

...>>Sam


----------



## RunnerFL

Rich said:


> But can't you use a 3TB drive? I could swear others have done this and posted about it. Why you'd want to do that is beyond me, other than the off chance that, suddenly, the 24s will use 3TB HDDs fully. Again, there's that TT Max 5 external device.
> 
> Rich


I recall other users saying that they've used a 3TB drive in the past but I don't think they were the WD Red drives. I wouldn't think that would make a difference but it's possible that the Reds aren't compatible with the HR24. I'm not familiar with the TT Max 5 so I can't comment on that. Wasn't someone able to get one working with a Genie recently?

Also, if they at some point went to 3TB support on HR24's it wouldn't automatically expand a 2TB drive to 3TB, you'd have to reformat.


----------



## Sam-SS

Rich said:


> But can't you use a 3TB drive? I could swear others have done this and posted about it. Why you'd want to do that is beyond me, other than the off chance that, suddenly, the 24s will use 3TB HDDs fully. Again, there's that TT Max 5 external device.
> 
> Rich


Ok, Ritch and RunnerFL, I found that I had a bad esata cable and the small ThermalTake
external disk housing was bad as well. Some time back I took a severe power hit and
that might have caused the problem.

Also, I was not able to get the 3tb drive to work with the new Max 5 and a new cable. However,
I found that I had a 2tb green drive so I installed it and it now works fine.

I am not sure that is the final word on the RED 3tb drives but I could not get it to work with
the combination that I have.

Thanks guys for your help.

...>>Sam


----------



## RunnerFL

Sam-SS said:


> Ok, Ritch and RunnerFL, I found that I had a bad esata cable and the small ThermalTake
> external disk housing was bad as well. Some time back I took a severe power hit and
> that might have caused the problem.
> 
> Also, I was not able to get the 3tb drive to work with the new Max 5 and a new cable. However,
> I found that I had a 2tb green drive so I installed it and it now works fine.
> 
> I am not sure that is the final word on the RED 3tb drives but I could not get it to work with
> the combination that I have.
> 
> Thanks guys for your help.
> 
> ...>>Sam


I'm glad you found something that worked for you.


----------



## Rich

Sam-SS said:


> I could have sworn that I had read here that someone was successful in using a 3tb drive.
> 
> Ritch....I do not know what you mean by "there's that TT Max 5 external device."
> 
> ...>>Sam


There have been a few posts about members having difficulties with the TT Max. Sometimes the HRs recognize them and sometimes they don't. When you read just about every post about external HDDs, things like this tend to stick in your mind.

Rich


----------



## Rich

RunnerFL said:


> I recall other users saying that they've used a 3TB drive in the past but I don't think they were the WD Red drives. I wouldn't think that would make a difference but it's possible that the Reds aren't compatible with the HR24. I'm not familiar with the TT Max 5 so I can't comment on that. Wasn't someone able to get one working with a Genie recently?
> 
> Also, if they at some point went to 3TB support on HR24's it wouldn't automatically expand a 2TB drive to 3TB, you'd have to reformat.


Others seem to have success with the red drives. I would think they'd be compatible with the 24s, but the Max 5 seems to problematic. Don't know why. I've read enough posts about this to convince me that I don't want a Max 5, altho I really like the way they look. They seem to be kinda hit and miss with the Genies. I'd chalk this up to the quality of the enclosure.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Sam-SS said:


> Ok, Ritch and RunnerFL, I found that I had a bad esata cable and the small ThermalTake
> external disk housing was bad as well. Some time back I took a severe power hit and
> that might have caused the problem.
> 
> Also, I was not able to get the 3tb drive to work with the new Max 5 and a new cable. However,
> I found that I had a 2tb green drive so I installed it and it now works fine.
> 
> I am not sure that is the final word on the RED 3tb drives but I could not get it to work with
> the combination that I have.
> 
> Thanks guys for your help.
> 
> ...>>Sam


Well, you gave it a good try and wrote well about your experience. Glad you got the 2TB drive working in it. Somebody has to suffer thru this stuff so we can get some feeling for what works with what. Some of us have suffered enough, appreciate your input and willingness to try something new.

Rich


----------



## Sam-SS

Now that I have an extra WD RED 3tb drive, has anyone found an external housing that may work with it? What I would
like is a housing like the Max 5. However, I am really not interested in the docking station types as they are too large.

...>>Sam


----------



## RunnerFL

Now that you have 2TB working why waste the extra TB, and time, trying to get the Red drive working? Or do you just mean an enclosure for "other" use besides your HR?


----------



## Sam-SS

RunnerFL said:


> Now that you have 2TB working why waste the extra TB, and time, trying to get the Red drive working? Or do you just mean an enclosure for "other" use besides your HR?


Yes, I was thinking of using it on my file server. That is if I can get it working.

...>>Sam


----------



## RunnerFL

I use one of these with a 3TB drive for transporting files between home and elsewhere. Works great especially on a machine that actually has USB 3.0.

http://www.amazon.com/Vantec-NexStar3-SuperSpeed-Enclosure-NST-380SU3-BK/dp/B0064I1NRG/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1383915886&sr=8-2&keywords=vantec+usb+3.0+enclosure


----------



## maerativo

Got a HR44-500 installed yesterday. After the installer left I checked that everything was working properly and powered down the DVR. I installed my new TT BlacX dock (ST0005U) with my new (partitioned and formatted on my desktop) WD 3TB green (WD30EURS) hard drive externally on the HR44. Powered up the HR44 and it recognized the external drive and formatted it. The HR44 was up and running. Gave it some chores to do (recordings to do in the very near future) so I could check its performance. It ran for about six hours. I decided to watch one of the recorded programs to check out the DVR. After about twenty minutes I started getting freezing and stuttering then the DVR completely froze up and would not respond. After ten minutes it rebooted by itself and displayed a blue screen informing me that there was a problem with the storage device (hard drive) and to call CS. Unplugged the HR44 and disconnected the external HDD dock. Powered up the HR44 and it booted up just fine. Plugged the dock and HDD into my eSATA port on my desktop and it recognized the dock and drive. It showed up in my Disk Management with four partitions on it. I deleted the partitions and tried to format it again but it would just spin and the TT dock would flash the red LED. I powered down the TT dock and disconnected the eSATA cable, connected the USB cable and powered up the dock, same thing! I could not get the HDD to format no matter what I tried. I assume that it is dead and I should return it to Amazon. I'm going to try one last attempt to access this HDD by mounting it in my desktop to see if I can format it there. I'm not holding my breath!

The question here is do I try another one (WD30EURS) or get a different hard drive altogether. Is it possible that the TT dock caused the failure? Is the QC at WD so low that these HDD's are failing right out of the box? 

I purchased the WD30EURS because it is designed for DVR's. So why the failure? Seagate has a new 4TB HDD (Seagate ST4000VM000 4TB 5900 RPM 64MB Cache) out. Does anyone have any experience with this drive?

Any advise and help is appreciated.


----------



## P Smith

sure, it is possible; dock's controller (and other components, like VR 3.3V, etc) and HDD could be defective (use MHDD or Victoria: run scan+remap and take SMART before/after scan), eSATA/USB cables ...


----------



## RunnerFL

maerativo said:


> The question here is do I try another one (WD30EURS) or get a different hard drive altogether. Is it possible that the TT dock caused the failure? Is the QC at WD so low that these HDD's are failing right out of the box?
> 
> I purchased the WD30EURS because it is designed for DVR's. So why the failure? Seagate has a new 4TB HDD (Seagate ST4000VM000 4TB 5900 RPM 64MB Cache) out. Does anyone have any experience with this drive?
> 
> Any advise and help is appreciated.


It's quite possible the drive was dead out of the box. I've got a couple of TT Docks and the only issue I've had is the power button. Others have had no issue with the WD30EURS but I personally use Seagate drives. I have not used that 4TB drive though.

No sense wasting your time running tests or trying to resurrect the drive, it's dead. Just return the drive to Amazon and move forward with whatever drive decision you make.


----------



## maerativo

RunnerFL said:


> It's quite possible the drive was dead out of the box. I've got a couple of TT Docks and the only issue I've had is the power button. Others have had no issue with the WD30EURS but I personally use Seagate drives. I have not used that 4TB drive though.
> 
> No sense wasting your time running tests or trying to resurrect the drive, it's dead. Just return the drive to Amazon and move forward with whatever drive decision you make.


I've also used Seagate drives in the past and had good results, and I've used WD drives in the past and had good results. Maybe it's the luck of the draw. I am intrigued by the Seagate 4TB drive and price is not too bad.

The drive is not dead. I mounted it into my desktop and it works fine. I then tried to get the TT dock to work with a couple of SATA drives I had laying around and I could not get it to do more than show the drive in my Disk Manager. When I tried to format either of the drives it reported an I/O error and would not proceed.

I'm going to return the TT dock and get something else like the Sans Digital MobileSTOR which is rated for HDD's up to 4TB. 
I'm keeping the WD30EURS mounted in my desktop for the time being and let it run. When I get the new dock/enclosure I'll mount it in that and see if it still works with my desktop. If it all works I'll put it on the HR44 and see what happens.


----------



## P Smith

I would try use the drive as external for you HR44 with direct SATA-eSATA cable and any +5V/12V power source


----------



## Rich

RunnerFL said:


> It's quite possible the drive was dead out of the box. I've got a couple of TT Docks and the only issue I've had is the power button. Others have had no issue with the WD30EURS but I personally use Seagate drives. I have not used that 4TB drive though.
> 
> No sense wasting your time running tests or trying to resurrect the drive, it's dead. Just return the drive to Amazon and move forward with whatever drive decision you make.


I don't really know how many 2TB drives I've got laying around, but none of them are EURS drives. I've read enough posts about folks having problems with them to make me shy away from them.

Rich


----------



## Rich

maerativo said:


> I've also used Seagate drives in the past and had good results, and I've used WD drives in the past and had good results. Maybe it's the luck of the draw. I am intrigued by the Seagate 4TB drive and price is not too bad.
> 
> The drive is not dead. I mounted it into my desktop and it works fine. I then tried to get the TT dock to work with a couple of SATA drives I had laying around and I could not get it to do more than show the drive in my Disk Manager. When I tried to format either of the drives it reported an I/O error and would not proceed.
> 
> I'm going to return the TT dock and get something else like the Sans Digital MobileSTOR which is rated for HDD's up to 4TB.
> I'm keeping the WD30EURS mounted in my desktop for the time being and let it run. When I get the new dock/enclosure I'll mount it in that and see if it still works with my desktop. If it all works I'll put it on the HR44 and see what happens.


After reading your posts, I'd think the external device, the dock is shot. When they work, they're very dependable, but they are also cheap and they can fail for reasons we can't know. I just had one fail yesterday. The on/off switch failed. Sledgehammer time.

If I were you I'd get another external device (I would not be afraid to try another TT dock) and a different model Green WD drive. I've got a bunch of 2TB drives from EADS to EARZ and all are working. If you're gonna go Seagate for the love of God don't get a Barracuda drive. Get what _*RunnerFL*_ uses. We know his work well. If you do get another TT dock, be gentle with it and stay away from that on/off switch. Make sure you plug in the eSATA to eSATA jumper wires first and then don't touch them again. You can blow the TT dock by pulling the jumper wires out while the HR and/or the dock are running.

Rich


----------



## maerativo

I was wrong. There is something not right about this WD30EURS HDD. This morning the drive is offline and will not show up in my disk management. It's going back to Amazon. I disassembled the TT dock to see what was inside. It was very obvious that the unit had been repaired because the switch had been replaced (sloppy soldering job) and they had splashed solder across the PCB. It's a wonder the dock work for six hours. Plan "B" implementation activated.


----------



## Rich

maerativo said:


> I was wrong. There is something not right about this WD30EURS HDD. This morning the drive is offline and will not show up in my disk management. It's going back to Amazon. I disassembled the TT dock to see what was inside. It was very obvious that the unit had been repaired because the switch had been replaced (sloppy soldering job) and they had splashed solder across the PCB. It's a wonder the dock work for six hours. Plan "B" implementation activated.


I stopped returning the TT docks. You have to pay the shipping fees for the return. By the time you get done, money and time spent, it's just not worth it. And I get a great deal of pleasure mashing them with my sledgehammer.

Kind of a mild shock you get when you take one apart, isn't it? When I said they were cheap, I wasn't just talking about the price.

Rich


----------



## P Smith

I'm willing pay the s/h fee


----------



## Rich

P Smith said:


> I'm willing pay the s/h fee


Too late. Two shots with the sledgehammer. Much satisfaction.

Rich


----------



## maerativo

Plan "B"
Ordered a Sans Digital Mobilestor from Amazon on Saturday, got it Monday morning. Nice unit, well made and not cheap looking. I like that it is a fan-less enclosure and is low profile. We will see how it performs tomorrow when I get the Seagate 4TB HDD I ordered from Newegg. More to follow.


----------



## RunnerFL

I've never had a problem with my SansDigital RAID enclosures. Keep us posted.


----------



## maerativo

Plan "B" continued:

I've got my HR44-500 up and running with the external Seagate 4TB HDD (ST4000VM000) mounted in the SansDigital enclosure and it seems to be happy. :joy:
The DVR booted up; formatted the new HDD (previously initialized and quick formatted on my desktop) and started updating the guide info. I'm going to give it 24-48 hrs. to get up to speed and then set up my series manager, you tube and Pandora. More to follow.


----------



## zpat

Hi all, after reading here for many years I think I finally found a good reason to post, partly to share some info and hopefully gather some thoughts as well.

I made the switch to an HR44-500 a couple months back. As part of that process, I took my Antec MX-1 enclosure with 2TB WD Black Caviar off my older HR24 and put it on the Genie. It seemed to work fine; however, we were getting freezing up of recorded programs for 30 seconds usually 5-6 times an hour. After spending hours and hours with the technicians we determined it was something to do with the external hard drive connection because if we ran the Genie by itself with no external drive, no problems. During this process we also swapped Genie's to see if that was it plus a couple dozen other things since the hard drive was not a suspect since it came off another dvr and was problem free for years.

Now that DirecTV has determined it is not their hardware, I'm on my own--it still could theoretically be a software issue with DirecTV although they won't admit that. I figured the next logical place was to swap out my hard drive. My logic was maybe the new Genie with 5 tuners is overwhelming the 2TB Black Caviar WD, and that one of these new WD Audio/Video drives would solve the problem. I installed a new 3TB 30EURX. While it works to record/watch after formatting on my computer first--it would not recognize this drive without a computer activation/format first, the freezing up is still present. Anyone installing the WD 30EURX please take note of that comment: you must activate on your computer first then format, or you will not get the Genie to see it--at least in my case that was true.

So before I go to the effort of replacing my trusty Antec MX-1 and ESATA cable, both of which have been problem free for years on my prior DirecTV DVR, I wanted to see if anyone has had this problem. BTW: during the debugging process with DirecTV we unplugged the Internet to make sure that wasn't causing it (apparently it causes a similar problem), we also determined it happens on every channel--not limited to any subset.


----------



## RunnerFL

zpat said:


> So before I go to the effort of replacing my trusty Antec MX-1 and ESATA cable, both of which have been problem free for years on my prior DirecTV DVR, I wanted to see if anyone has had this problem. BTW: during the debugging process with DirecTV we unplugged the Internet to make sure that wasn't causing it (apparently it causes a similar problem), we also determined it happens on every channel--not limited to any subset.


I haven't tried an MX-1 myself but 2 things I would try first are a new eSATA cable and if that doesn't work try another power supply for the MX-1. Others have posted that their MX-1's have started to fail, mostly fans I think, so maybe a new enclosure is in order.


----------



## maerativo

Plan "B" update:

The Seagate 4TB HDD in the SansDigital enclosure has been working flawlessly for a few days now. I've had five programs recording at one time on several occasions without any problems. Time will tell but this pairing with the HR44 seems to work well.


----------



## Rich

maerativo said:


> Plan "B" update:
> 
> The Seagate 4TB HDD in the SansDigital enclosure has been working flawlessly for a few days now. I've had five programs recording at one time on several occasions without any problems. Time will tell but this pairing with the HR44 seems to work well.


The place I worked at had many SMEs (Subject Matter Experts). The best way to decide which suggestions to follow on this site is to figure out who the SMEs pertaining to your problem are and follow their advice. I would consider *RunnerFL* and _*CCarncross*_ HDD SMEs.

You did well by following _*RunnerFL's*_ suggestions.

Rich


----------



## Bill Broderick

zpat said:


> So before I go to the effort of replacing my trusty Antec MX-1 and ESATA cable, both of which have been problem free for years on my prior DirecTV DVR, I wanted to see if anyone has had this problem.


My Antec MX-1 and 1TB WD were problem free for years on an HR21. When I got my Genie upgrade, I also got my other DVR's upgraded to HR24's. I attempted to move the Antec from the basement, where the Genie was going to the guest bedroom, where one of the HR24's was going. Things went bad right away. The Antec started making horrible noises (fan related) and the DVR never recognized the external HD. I tried connecting to the other HR24, with the same lack of success. I ended up buying a TT Max 5 and a 2TB WD drive, which was recognized and used by the HR24 immediately.


----------



## RunnerFL

Rich said:


> The place I worked at had many SMEs (Subject Matter Experts). The best way to decide which suggestions to follow on this site is to figure out who the SMEs pertaining to your problem are and follow their advice. I would consider *RunnerFL* and _*CCarncross*_ HDD SMEs.
> 
> You did well by following _*RunnerFL's*_ suggestions.


Thanks for the kind words, Rich. I'd also say you're an HDD SME as well.

In my line of work I've put many HDDs through their paces, some that never even made it to market, so I tend to be picky when I choose HDDs for my personal use as well. (as a side note I have 4 6TB HGST drives on my desk waiting for me to get to work tomorrow as well as some 4TB SEDs.)


----------



## P Smith

Not having any rank  (would I care ?), I'm still advise you guys: use controller-less enclosures or if you are handyman, bypass it.
Eliminating the "middleman" will reduce percentage of failures [initial and during it use) dramatically.


----------



## RunnerFL

P Smith said:


> Not having any rank  (would I care ?), I'm still advise you guys: use controller-less enclosures or if you are handyman, bypass it.
> Eliminating the "middleman" will reduce percentage of failures [initial and during it use) dramatically.


RAID requires a controller in the enclosure so, once again, you're off base in your suggestions.


----------



## P Smith

I would tell it is you're offbase. How many guys of same level of geeky? Who are using RAID for DVR? I would bet less then number of fingers on all branches.

All others - 100k - will use ONE DRIVE!

Check your base...


----------



## Kevin L

I use RAID (Four 2TB Red drives) in a Sans Digital RAID tower. Works great with an HR44-500.


----------



## Rich

RunnerFL said:


> Thanks for the kind words, Rich. I'd also say you're an HDD SME as well.
> 
> In my line of work I've put many HDDs through their paces, some that never even made it to market, so I tend to be picky when I choose HDDs for my personal use as well. (as a side note I have 4 6TB HGST drives on my desk waiting for me to get to work tomorrow as well as some 4TB SEDs.)


Thing is, I'm just a "user". I don't really know exactly how an HDD works. I just know which ones work well. I did plan to explain my post about SMEs further yesterday, but I was pressed for time.

I always got a kick out of getting SME calls at work. I was the resident SME for elevators just because I took an owner of an elevator repair company out for lunch a couple times and pumped him for information. When nobody understands something, except for a couple people, those people quickly become sought after for questions relating to the subjects they know something about. If nothing else, they know who to call for the answers. Kinda like this forum.

I don't know where the term SME came from, we just started using it and it really caught on. The more subjects you were an SME on the higher your yearly ratings were. And your pay increased proportionally. Perfect for me, I like seminars and I disliked working so I went to every seminar and class that was offered. By the time I quit, I knew a little bit about so much that I was constantly asked to participate in meetings just so I could add a little bit of knowledge about something if the subject came up. I kinda liked that.

Rich


----------



## RunnerFL

P Smith said:


> I would tell it is you're offbase. How many guys of same level of geeky? Who are using RAID for DVR? I would bet less then number of fingers on all branches.
> 
> All others - 100k - will use ONE DRIVE!
> 
> Check your base...


Plenty of us with RAID enclosures, which require a controller. You'd lose that bet but then again I have no idea what you mean by "number of fingers on all branches". Apparently you're speaking in code or confusing the human hand with a tree.


----------



## gpauljr

Kevin: I assume you are using RAID 5 with four drives. How much capacity are you getting? What drives are you using and did you have to do anything special with them in order to make them work with the HR44 such as initializing them with a computer, etc?


----------



## P Smith

RAID-5: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID#RAID_5


----------



## Kevin L

gpauljr said:


> Kevin: I assume you are using RAID 5 with four drives. How much capacity are you getting? What drives are you using and did you have to do anything special with them in order to make them work with the HR44 such as initializing them with a computer, etc?


Yes, it's four 2TB drives in RAID-5, so you get the capacity of three drives. In my case, it's 6TB. I did have to initialize the RAID on a PC before the HR44 would recognize it.

Kevin


----------



## GAM

When setting up a RAID (either mirror or RAID 5) do you have to build the RAID array on a PC first and then when it is done hook it up to the HR34? Also, could I use my existing HR34 drive to do this or do you have to start fresh?


----------



## P Smith

for DVR, the RAID must be build by enclosure's controller;

some of them has a switch on back plane, some require to run a program on PC what will instruct the controller to build RAID


----------



## BAHitman

GAM said:


> When setting up a RAID (either mirror or RAID 5) do you have to build the RAID array on a PC first and then when it is done hook it up to the HR34? Also, could I use my existing HR34 drive to do this or do you have to start fresh?


You need to check with your enclosure documentation to be sure how to do it... some of them have an on board setup mechanism while others require you to use software that came with the enclosure to configure the RAID.

My setup is 4x3TB WD RED drives in a Promise SmartStor DS4600 found here: http://www.amazon.com/Smartstor-DS4600-RAID5-Esata-Windows/dp/B002IT4UY8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1385144876&sr=8-1&keywords=smartstor+ds4600. I used their software on a PC to configure RAID5 and with a formatted capacity of 8.19TB i have all recordings (mostly of stuff I have watched) from July 2012 onwards and still have 53% free space. keep in mind though, and fair warning that if the DVR goes south, you lose all recordings... having said that, I am happy with the way it has been working over the last 1.25 years


----------



## GAM

Thanks for the info, I was looking at the Promise SmartStor DS4600 as well.


----------



## Kevin L

GAM said:


> When setting up a RAID (either mirror or RAID 5) do you have to build the RAID array on a PC first and then when it is done hook it up to the HR34? Also, could I use my existing HR34 drive to do this or do you have to start fresh?


The SansDigital RAID tower I used is set up by a switch on the unit prior to hooking it up to the PC. It's very easy. Other RAID units use software to set up the RAID. Either way, most of the units sold today are pretty easy to set up.

Kevin


----------



## RunnerFL

P Smith said:


> some of them has a switch on back plane, some require to run a program on PC what will instruct the controller to build RAID


That type of enclosure won't work. It has to be an enclosure that creates the array on its own.


----------



## CCarncross

If a RAID enclosure requires you to install any software on an operating system to set it up, it almost certainly will not work with a Directv DVR...you need an enclosure that has you plug in the drives, use some switch on the enclosure that chooses the RAID level, and builds the array on its own.


----------



## dazed&confuzed

I'm thinking of putting a 3 or 4 Tb drive on my HR-44. 
I have a Thermaltake BlacX with a 2 Tb on my R-22 that has worked perfectly for several years.
But all the Thermaltake units I see now say 1 or 2 Tb max.
What drive enclosures do you recommend?


----------



## Rich

dazed&confuzed said:


> I'm thinking of putting a 3 or 4 Tb drive on my HR-44.
> I have a Thermaltake BlacX with a 2 Tb on my R-22 that has worked perfectly for several years.
> But all the Thermaltake units I see now say 1 or 2 Tb max.
> What drive enclosures do you recommend?


Try the dock with a 3TB, I think that will work. _*RunnerFL*_ would know for sure.

Rich


----------



## RunnerFL

Rich said:


> Try the dock with a 3TB, I think that will work. _*RunnerFL*_ would know for sure.
> 
> Rich


Yeah, that should work. I used a 3TB Seagate Constellation in a BlacX dock on my HR44 for a while.


----------



## Rich

RunnerFL said:


> Yeah, that should work. I used a 3TB Seagate Constellation in a BlacX dock on my HR44 for a while.


Thought I remembered that. Good to see my memory is still working well. I'm gonna have to get a 44 one of these days. Just to keep up with things.

Rich


----------



## drh

Having problem lately with one of my dvr's , hr24, connected to sans digital mr2ut+b loaded with 2 wd20efrx red 2 tb drives. Dvr has become very slow to respond to any command, were talking minutes here sometimes. Running raid 1 on the enclosure. No indication of disk failure according to led on enclosure. When disconnected from esata array, dvr preforms normal. Switched out esata cables for new cables, no effect. Switched position of drives, physically, in array, no effect. Still 75+ % on drives available. Have had system with this configuration since late december 2012. Same esata setup on hr 34 with 3tb wd reds and no problem to date, same install date. I'm thinking the cpu is getting bogged down with the esata array, whether it is in the handshake or data transfer I don't know. I havent tried wd diagnostics but doubt the drives are at fault. perhaps the sans digital or dvr esata circut is at fault? maybe the raid controler in the sans digital is flakey? Before I format the drives or replace them, one at a time, I thought I would post here for your input. Haven't seen this particular problem addressed before here, so here's hoping!


----------



## P Smith

I would check both drives [out of SANS box] by MHDD/Victoria first; please post SMART values for each one here


----------



## drh

Haven't used either utility before but it looks like MHDD will not allow use on external drives. I put one of the drives into a antec esata enclosure and am testing it from a laptop via usb,arg...., no esata port on the laptop. I am running spinrite against one of the drives now. Slow process via usb tho.


----------



## drh

Drive 2 mhdd smart:
1: 200. 200 0
3: 183. 184. 3841
4: 100 100. 18
5: 200. 200. 0
7: 200. 200. 0
9: 90. 90. 7911
10: 100. 253. 0
11: 100. 253. 0
12: 100. 100. 18
192: 200. 200. 17
193: 200 200. 0
194: 121. 106. 26
196: 200. 200. 0
197: 200. 200. 0
198: 100. 253. 0
199: 200. 200. 0
200: 100. 253. 0

Hope this format is correct for you, this is greek to me.


----------



## drh

drh said:


> Drive 2 mhdd smart: Drive 1 smart
> 1: 200. 200 0. 200 200 0
> 3: 183. 184. 3841. 190 173 3491
> 4: 100 100. 18. 100 100 29
> 5: 200. 200. 0. 200 200 0
> 7: 200. 200. 0. 200 200 0
> 9: 90. 90. 7911. 96 96 3166
> 10: 100. 253. 0. 100 253 0
> 11: 100. 253. 0. 100 253 0
> 12: 100. 100. 18. 100 100 29
> 192: 200. 200. 17. 200 200 28
> 193: 200 200. 0. 200 200 0
> 194: 121. 106. 26. 117 106 30
> 196: 200. 200. 0. 200 200 0
> 197: 200. 200. 0. 200 200 0
> 198: 100. 253. 0. 100 153 0
> 199: 200. 200. 0. 200 200 0
> 200: 100. 253. 0. 100 253 0
> Hope this format is correct for you, this is greek to me.


----------



## P Smith

See here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.M.A.R.T. 
Critical:
5
10
184
188
196
197
198
...

Your drives are OK from SMART standpoint;
I would try to measure seek time for all tracks, just to be sure in mechanical parts. Its slowness would case of delay in reading/writing and DVR OS would complain about issues with the HDD.


----------



## drh

If I put the drives in a new sans mr2ut will the enclosure format the drives again or will I be able to retain the recorded programs as long as the dvr is the same?


----------



## RunnerFL

drh said:


> If I put the drives in a new sans mr2ut will the enclosure format the drives again or will I be able to retain the recorded programs as long as the dvr is the same?


As long as it is the same model it should maintain the array. Just put it in the correct RAID mode first, via the dial on the back, before inserting the drives.


----------



## drh

Good. Then I will pull the sans off of my R34 replace the drives with the ones from the questionable R 22 as both are raid1 configured and both are the same sans enclosers. That will tell me if the problem is with the enclosure or the dvr or perhaps the drives, which is less likely.
Thanks


----------



## drh

Ok, installed one new, well actually a factory rebuilt, wd 2tb red almost 24 hours ago and it appears to be still rebuilding. How long is the rebuild time for a 2 tb drive only 25% full?


----------



## P Smith

a few minutes, no more

time to reboot your box now


----------



## Rich

drh said:


> Ok, installed one new, well actually a factory rebuilt, wd 2tb red almost 24 hours ago and it appears to be still rebuilding. How long is the rebuild time for a 2 tb drive only 25% full?


Only 25% full of what? You should have been able to use that DVR no more than 15 minutes after installing the external device.

Rich


----------



## drh

Perhaps we have a procedural issue here. I did not connect the array to the d=
vr yet. I just replaced 1 drive and turned the array back on. Green power li=
t, yellow link lit, Red error lit. Drive 1 purple mostly with momentary blue=
flash, drive 2, the replaced one, purple, red alternating mostly with occas=
ional blue corresponding with drive 1 blue. Do I have to have the array conn=
ected to the dvr in order to rebuild?


----------



## drh

Sorry guys, I'm an idiot. I just checked and I did indeed attach the array to the dvr yesterday. Apparently it rebuilt the new drive. However I am showing the red error light on, it was not on before I switched drives. How do I tell which drive it is indicating an error in?


----------



## P Smith

perhaps reading a manual ?


----------



## drh

P Smith said:


> perhaps reading a manual ?


Wish the manual had that info, alas it is rather sketchy in all but drive installation into the box. Nothing on raid problem diagnostics.


----------



## inkahauts

Is there an order of some sort to the lights and drives maybe?


----------



## drh

inkahauts said:


> Is there an order of some sort to the lights and drives maybe?


Not that the docs disclose. I did call tech support though. They said to ignore the red error light. Apparently it is illuminated when a drive is being rebuilt. The rebuild process takes longer, he said, when the array is connected to the dvr, as it is recording new material and buffering, all while it is trying to rebuild the new drive. He said that the lights on the drive being rebuilt were the ones that would indicate a problem and that mine indicated a rebuild in progress.


----------



## P Smith

what is a courtesy ! 

instead of writing normal helpful manual (is it hard to post it at web site ?!) users must spend time on a phone line and discuss meaning of the lights


----------



## mmoore99

Does anyone know if the Sans Digital MR2UT+ raid enclosure will support 4TB drives?


----------



## P Smith

are they still have web site and/or email ? phone ?


----------



## Hemi

OK, I think that I'm ready to add an external HD to my HR21-700 (yes, I know that it is old but I'm not ready yet to jump to an HR44).

I'm looking at a Vantec (NST-380SU3-BK) enclosure and a WD AV-GP 2 TB (WD20EURS) hard drive.

First, after reading several pages of posts here I haven’t found any information that would preclude me from adding this to the HR21 and second, if the internal hard drive on the HR21 is beginning to fail (I’m seeing occasional freezing and stuttering on recorded content) will it affect the use of the external drive if the internal drive fails completely?

Thanks for all of the help.

Dan


----------



## inkahauts

If you plan on jumping to a hr44 ( and unless it's price jump now your wasting time for no reason.  ) then I wouldn't bother adding an external because you won't be able to watch what you've recorded unless you plan on keeping the HR21 as well.

And if you wanted to add an external
To a hr44 you can go bigger than 2tb


----------



## jagrim

Hemi said:


> OK, I think that I'm ready to add an external HD to my HR21-700 (yes, I know that it is old but I'm not ready yet to jump to an HR44).
> I'm looking at a Vantec (NST-380SU3-BK) enclosure and a WD AV-GP 2 TB (WD20EURS) hard drive.
> First, after reading several pages of posts here I haven't found any information that would preclude me from adding this to the HR21 and second, if the internal hard drive on the HR21 is beginning to fail (I'm seeing occasional freezing and stuttering on recorded content) will it affect the use of the external drive if the internal drive fails completely?
> 
> Thanks for all of the help.
> 
> Dan


When my HR20's hard drive failed, I used an esata external for over a year without any issue.

Sent from my iPad using DBSTalk


----------



## RunnerFL

mmoore99 said:


> Does anyone know if the Sans Digital MR2UT+ raid enclosure will support 4TB drives?


If it's the USB 3.0 version it should. I'm using 3TB drives in mine and 4TB support generally goes hand in hand with 3TB support.


----------



## Rich

Hemi said:


> OK, I think that I'm ready to add an external HD to my HR21-700 (yes, I know that it is old but I'm not ready yet to jump to an HR44).
> I'm looking at a Vantec (NST-380SU3-BK) enclosure and a WD AV-GP 2 TB (WD20EURS) hard drive.
> First, after reading several pages of posts here I haven't found any information that would preclude me from adding this to the HR21 and second, if the internal hard drive on the HR21 is beginning to fail (I'm seeing occasional freezing and stuttering on recorded content) will it affect the use of the external drive if the internal drive fails completely?
> 
> Thanks for all of the help.
> 
> Dan


You can solve the internal HDD problem with an external drive, but my memory tells me that people have posted with problems with the Vantecs. I'd go with a Thermaltake docking station. There are problems with them, but I think you'd be better off. Here's a _*link*_.

Rich


----------



## Jason Whiddon

Fixing to start recording OTA with the Genie so I feel I better add some space. 

Was thinking 2TB, and I see the thermaltake dock still seems to be working well.

Also considering a RAID setup so I dont have to worry, just wondering how everyone would recommend setting that up?

Also on drives, ive seen a lot of Tivo guys lately using Red drives, just curious as to why. I know green and av-gp are options as well.


----------



## inkahauts

I am using a 4tb red drive. They are also meant for heavy 24/7 usage. And the bigger the drive the better.


----------



## Jason Whiddon

Thats what I was wondering. Red seems to get good comments for high usage drives.


----------



## sigma1914

inkahauts said:


> I am using a 4tb red drive. They are also meant for heavy 24/7 usage. And the bigger the drive the better.





Jason Whiddon said:


> Thats what I was wondering. Red seems to get good comments for high usage drives.


Could you guys please share some links?


----------



## inkahauts

Mobile right now but if you go to western digitalis website and look up the specs on their red drives you'll find they are all about server level performs and always running. And they are Eco ish as I recall as well.

Mine is silent and running perfect since August now.


----------



## Rich

This link has the 2TB model. The price goes up as the size goes up. _*Link*_.

Rich


----------



## Rich

How many years would you expect out of the Red HDDs when used in an HR? I'm starting to see my 3-4 year old Green Caviar drives fail.

Rich


----------



## Jason Whiddon

I usually buy AV-GP drives but Red is on the radar now. Id probably go 3tb's, but itll be Summer before the HR44 is clear.


----------



## hasan

I've been using this one since Sept 2010 on an HR20-700 and now I've put it on an HR24-200:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002G1YPPW/ref=oh_details_o00_s01_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I've been using it wit this ThermalTake Dock:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001A4HAFS/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I've been so pleased with both of these, that I just ordered the following for the HR44-700:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004W9BKE0/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i02?ie=UTF8&psc=1

for use with the same dock (although this one was just ordered, so who knows if they are identical or not):

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001A4HAFS/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

As always, thanks to Rich for his recommendation.. 4 years of continuous DVR operation on the 2 TB drive and still going strong. If the new 3 TB for the HR44 is as good, I'll be more than happy.

The goal was to increase recording capacity, but not go so large that I wouldn't like losing all the recordings when either of the DVRs go south (which they will, sooner or later). In the HR24's case, 500 gig to 2 TB is a nice increase, and in the HR44, going from 1 TB to 3 TB should also be just about right.


----------



## Jason Whiddon

Yeah, Im gonna have to get a 2 or 3TB for my HR44 come summer when I can clear it off. I just added an AM21 so the OTA recordings will be eating space.


----------



## hasan

Jason Whiddon said:


> Yeah, Im gonna have to get a 2 or 3TB for my HR44 come summer when I can clear it off. I just added an AM21 so the OTA recordings will be eating space.


My AM21 is on the HR24-200 that I currently have a 2 TB drive on. I don't plan on putting an AM21 on the HR44...one DVR with the AM21 is enough, and my wife has an AM21 on her HR24 as well. BTW, it's Thundersnowing here at thte moment, very strange look to it, Blizzard (5-10 " snow and 55 mph winds predicted for later today!


----------



## Rich

hasan said:


> My AM21 is on the HR24-200 that I currently have a 2 TB drive on. I don't plan on putting an AM21 on the HR44...one DVR with the AM21 is enough, and my wife has an AM21 on her HR24 as well. BTW, it's Thundersnowing here at thte moment, very strange look to it, Blizzard (5-10 " snow and 55 mph winds predicted for later today!


Oh, no. Is that coming my way? My wife heard something about that yesterday. I was just getting ready to put the snow-blower away.

Rich


----------



## hasan

Rich said:


> Oh, no. Is that coming my way? My wife heard something about that yesterday. I was just getting ready to put the snow-blower away.
> 
> Rich


I don't think so, it looks to be tracking north into Wisconsin and then Michigan and Canada. Looks like you missed this one. It is snowing really hard adn the wind hasn't come up yet. When it does, no one is going anywhere.


----------



## hasan

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DXOJJQQ/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DXOJJQQ/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I ordered these two and should receiver mid-week, because I spent 4 hours yesterday with the BlacX TT Dock and 3 gig WD AV (EURS, I think). The combo would not work with either my HR44 or two different computers and 3 different eSATA cables. The drive light on the TT would flash a few times on spin-up, and flash once when the 44 looked at it, but after that, NADA. Even tried both eSATA and USB on two different computers, two different O/S...same result. No drive letter assigned, no recognition. It is as if the drive needed to be initialized, which is strange in that I've never had to do that with a TT/Drive on any D* box. Anywho, I've boxed them up for return and ordered the two things above, based on Rich's comments on the EURX series and Inkahuts comments on the full enclosure.

Let's hope it goes better than yesterday, cuz it was a very frustrating experience.


----------



## P Smith

the TT's controller/FW and the HDD could not negotiate well if the drive has AF (4k sectors) and support emulation of 512 bytes sectoring method... to get more facts I would try use 2 TB drive with your PC/DVR/cables and the dock ... perhaps next time if you sent it back


----------



## hasan

P Smith said:


> the TT's controller/FW and the HDD could not negotiate well if the drive has AF (4k sectors) and support emulation of 512 bytes sectoring method... to get more facts I would try use 2 TB drive with your PC/DVR/cables and the dock ... perhaps next time if you sent it back


Thanks...since I'm starting over with a 2 TB EURX drive and TT Enclosure instead of the dock, it could be that I will have eliminated the problem you describe. I'll let ya know.


----------



## hasan

Success! My previous post outlined an epic fail between a WE30EURS/ThermalTake BlacX Dock and my HR44-700. I returned them and this is what worked:

The following worked perfectly, first try, no special treatment, just quickly assemble the enclosure, drop the drive in, push forward to mate with connectors, flip holding clip. Ready to go.

*Western Digital WD20EURX (2 TB SATA III, Amazon)*

*ThermalTake Max 5 Active Cooking Enclosure (Amazon: double quiet fans, lighted if desired)*

Standard connection/startup procedure:

1. Shut down HR44-700 (I used Menu Restart)
2. When front panel lights go out, pull power plug on HR44
3. Connect eSATA cable between HR44 and the Enclosure
4. Power Up Enclosure and wait 1 minute.
5. Put HR44 Power Plug back in (it will auto power up)

Watch drive light on the enclosure, it will flash intermittently and *continue to do so.* As the HR44 comes alive, the screen will tell you it is formatting the external drive.

I have no idea why the other setup would not work out of the box on the HR44. I dropped down from 3 TB to 2 TB when I ordered this newt setup, only because I thought 3 was too big to have so much stuff on when it failed (and it will, eventually). I am using a BlacX Dock on my HR24-200 with a 2 TB drive successfully.

Since I changed type of interface (Dock > Full Enclosure), and Size (3 TB > 2 TB), and of course it was physically a different drive, I can't tell anyone why the first setup would not work. It could have been a bad dock, a bad drive, requirement that the drive be initialized (per P. Smith), etc.

Of course, I have to input all my series links and I lost the Sports Search (which should return in a few days), and have to wait a few days for the series links to populate, but at least now I have enough space to due the 5 tuners in the HR44 some justice.


----------



## Rich

hasan said:


> Success! My previous post outlined an epic fail between a WE30EURS/ThermalTake BlacX Dock and my HR44-700. I returned them and this is what worked:
> 
> The following worked perfectly, first try, no special treatment, just quickly assemble the enclosure, drop the drive in, push forward to mate with connectors, flip holding clip. Ready to go.
> 
> *Western Digital WD20EURX (2 TB SATA III, Amazon)*
> 
> *ThermalTake Max 5 Active Cooking Enclosure (Amazon: double quiet fans, lighted if desired)*
> 
> Standard connection/startup procedure:
> 
> 1. Shut down HR44-700 (I used Menu Restart)
> 2. When front panel lights go out, pull power plug on HR44
> 3. Connect eSATA cable between HR44 and the Enclosure
> 4. Power Up Enclosure and wait 1 minute.
> 5. Put HR44 Power Plug back in (it will auto power up)
> 
> Watch drive light on the enclosure, it will flash intermittently and *continue to do so.* As the HR44 comes alive, the screen will tell you it is formatting the external drive.
> 
> I have no idea why the other setup would not work out of the box on the HR44. I dropped down from 3 TB to 2 TB when I ordered this newt setup, only because I thought 3 was too big to have so much stuff on when it failed (and it will, eventually). I am using a BlacX Dock on my HR24-200 with a 2 TB drive successfully.
> 
> Since I changed type of interface (Dock > Full Enclosure), and Size (3 TB > 2 TB), and of course it was physically a different drive, I can't tell anyone why the first setup would not work. It could have been a bad dock, a bad drive, requirement that the drive be initialized (per P. Smith), etc.
> 
> Of course, I have to input all my series links and I lost the Sports Search (which should return in a few days), and have to wait a few days for the series links to populate, but at least now I have enough space to due the 5 tuners in the HR44 some justice.


Those EURS drives have been mildly problematic for some time. The initial setup you had should have worked. I dunno for sure why it didn't work. I'm down to one 24-100 with an external drive and when something happens to that setup, I'll be done with externals. Well, maybe I shouldn't be so quick to say that. I do have one 24-200 that I've never tried to put a bigger internal drive in because of the size of the HDD sled. If I get the urge, I'm gonna try the wire tie thing with that one and see how it works. Might have to put an external on that one. But that's a special case.

Put bluntly, I'm sick of external drives. I own ten HRs and that's two more than I really need. I know this: The HRs run better with the large HDD installed internally. I have had zero problems with my internal 2TB drives in the last two years. During that time, I've had many problems with the externals. Ranging from HDDs failing to housekeepers disconnecting them or knocking them over. Things like that. Nothing thunderously catastrophic, just an ongoing PITA.

I realize that people with Genies have little chance of owning one without paying too much, so they must resort to the externals, but I still see no need, personally, for one and, unless something drastic happens, I won't be getting one. Because of the hassles of an external and the lack of support for our wishes about allowing us to swap HDDs between HRs within an account, I'm don't see myself getting a Genie.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Hasan, I'm glad the new setup worked. Forgot to mention that.

Rich


----------



## hasan

Rich said:


> Those EURS drives have been mildly problematic for some time. The initial setup you had should have worked. I dunno for sure why it didn't work. I'm down to one 24-100 with an external drive and when something happens to that setup, I'll be done with externals. Well, maybe I shouldn't be so quick to say that. I do have one 24-200 that I've never tried to put a bigger internal drive in because of the size of the HDD sled. If I get the urge, I'm gonna try the wire tie thing with that one and see how it works. Might have to put an external on that one. But that's a special case.
> 
> Put bluntly, I'm sick of external drives. I own ten HRs and that's two more than I really need. I know this: The HRs run better with the large HDD installed internally. I have had zero problems with my internal 2TB drives in the last two years. During that time, I've had many problems with the externals. Ranging from HDDs failing to housekeepers disconnecting them or knocking them over. Things like that. Nothing thunderously catastrophic, just an ongoing PITA.
> 
> I realize that people with Genies have little chance of owning one without paying too much, so they must resort to the externals, but I still see no need, personally, for one and, unless something drastic happens, I won't be getting one. Because of the hassles of an external and the lack of support for our wishes about allowing us to swap HDDs between HRs within an account, I'm don't see myself getting a Genie.
> 
> Rich


Very interesting read, Rich! the WD20EVDS that I've had for four years (on an HR21-200 during that time), and now on the new HR24-200, is still running in the BlacX TT Dock you recommended all that time ago. When that drive goes, I'll probably get one of the ones I just bought, WD20EURX and drop it in the dock. The HR24-200 has over 20 series links, about 15 movies and several seasons of HD-VOD series like Boardwalk Empire, Deadwood, Newsroom, etc.It is still about 85% free.

The new drive, WD20EURX and enclosure TT Max 5 went together very, very easily. I'm a mechanical moron and even I could see what to do. I love the enclosure. It doesn't look like it would take a bunch of rough handling, but it protects the drive much better and cools it much better than the TT Dock. I'd have no problem sticking with this combo as my "goto" setup. Mounting the drive into the enclosure couldn't be simpler, very clean, and getting the enclosure case open is just removing two hex screws (for which they give you the screwdriver). The two large fans run very, very quietly. I had to put my hand in front of them to see if they were working. The blue fan lights are "cool" (but I have them turned off), and the front power/activity light is not overly bright, but I like seeing it blink a bit. Unlike the dock which goes orange for activity, the enclosure stays all blue and just blinks a bit.

I don't see how anyone with our recording habits could live with a Genie and a 1 TB drive...not and make use of the five tuners. After all, if you have that many, you need to keep them busy!

I have no doubt that the larger drives internal work better than external. I've had the same worry about my TT Dock/Drive....had to yell at someone the other day to stay away from the back of the HT setup. No cleaning, no dusting, no nuthin', STAY AWAY. You would love my equipment rack, now, Rich. I have a 15 dBi gain yagi mounted to the side rail pointing down the hall to the far end of the house to integrate the HR24-200 that is on its own dish. Then again, I think all antennas are things of beauty.

Thanks again for your comments, most enjoyable and informative.


----------



## Rich

hasan said:


> Very interesting read, Rich! the WD20EVDS that I've had for four years (on an HR21-200 during that time), and now on the new HR24-200, is still running in the BlacX TT Dock you recommended all that time ago. When that drive goes, I'll probably get one of the ones I just bought, WD20EURX and drop it in the dock. The HR24-200 has over 20 series links, about 15 movies and several seasons of HD-VOD series like Boardwalk Empire, Deadwood, Newsroom, etc.It is still about 85% free.
> 
> The new drive, WD20EURX and enclosure TT Max 5 went together very, very easily. I'm a mechanical moron and even I could see what to do. I love the enclosure. It doesn't look like it would take a bunch of rough handling, but it protects the drive much better and cools it much better than the TT Dock. I'd have no problem sticking with this combo as my "goto" setup. Mounting the drive into the enclosure couldn't be simpler, very clean, and getting the enclosure case open is just removing two hex screws (for which they give you the screwdriver). The two large fans run very, very quietly. I had to put my hand in front of them to see if they were working. The blue fan lights are "cool" (but I have them turned off), and the front power/activity light is not overly bright, but I like seeing it blink a bit. Unlike the dock which goes orange for activity, the enclosure stays all blue and just blinks a bit.
> 
> I don't see how anyone with our recording habits could live with a Genie and a 1 TB drive...not and make use of the five tuners. After all, if you have that many, you need to keep them busy!
> 
> I have no doubt that the larger drives internal work better than external. I've had the same worry about my TT Dock/Drive....had to yell at someone the other day to stay away from the back of the HT setup. No cleaning, no dusting, no nuthin', STAY AWAY. You would love my equipment rack, now, Rich. I have a 15 dBi gain yagi mounted to the side rail pointing down the hall to the far end of the house to integrate the HR24-200 that is on its own dish. Then again, I think all antennas are things of beauty.
> 
> Thanks again for your comments, most enjoyable and informative.


Always a pleasure to hear from you. Thanx.

Rich


----------



## Rich

I've always wanted one of those enclosures that you bought. Just had too many docks. I just like the look of the enclosure.

Rich


----------



## weattv

I'd greatly appreciate some info as to whether Thermaltake BlacX eSATA's can go bad. Could a worn-out BlacX be causing the picture to freeze & the drive to clunk loudly? Or could the external Seagate FAP in the BlacX be finally gone? (It's not the DVR, since the HR20-100, attached to the FAP for 6+ years, is now working fine on its own.) 

A few days ago the live picture, and then recordings, began to freeze. The red & blue lights on the BlacX were normal, but sporadic rumbling was getting much louder. Today the DVR was completely frozen, until I disconnected the external drive. All this was just the situation 2+ years ago, until the BlacX for the FAP solved it.

Is there any maintenance or cleaning possible on the BlacX, or should I try a new one? Any way to diagnose if it's working right?

Meanwhile, DTV was good enough to make us some great incentives for an HR44. Enjoying our first whole-home experience a lot, but missing that 6-year collection.

Thank you!


----------



## P Smith

the diagnostics must be done for all components of the chain:
- DVR's eSATA conector
- eSATA-eSATA cable
- TT dock's eSATA connector
- BlacX's controller
- BlacX's SATA connector
- the HDD itself.

Last part of the list is doable by using sell-booting CD with MHDD (preferable method) or Victoria (free program for Windows). Get SMART data, run Scan+Remap, then get SMART again; post results here for future discussion.


----------



## Rich

weattv said:


> I'd greatly appreciate some info as to whether Thermaltake BlacX eSATA's can go bad. Could a worn-out BlacX be causing the picture to freeze & the drive to clunk loudly? Or could the external Seagate FAP in the BlacX be finally gone? (It's not the DVR, since the HR20-100, attached to the FAP for 6+ years, is now working fine on its own.)
> 
> A few days ago the live picture, and then recordings, began to freeze. The red & blue lights on the BlacX were normal, but sporadic rumbling was getting much louder. Today the DVR was completely frozen, until I disconnected the external drive. All this was just the situation 2+ years ago, until the BlacX for the FAP solved it.
> 
> Is there any maintenance or cleaning possible on the BlacX, or should I try a new one? Any way to diagnose if it's working right?
> 
> Meanwhile, DTV was good enough to make us some great incentives for an HR44. Enjoying our first whole-home experience a lot, but missing that 6-year collection.
> 
> Thank you!


The external devices are usually the weakest link in the chain. But if you're still using an HDD from an FAP, I'd be looking at that HDD, they don't last forever. Easiest thing to do is buy another TT dock and try it. Never hurts to have an extra dock around just for cases such as this.

Rich


----------



## RunnerFL

weattv said:


> I'd greatly appreciate some info as to whether Thermaltake BlacX eSATA's can go bad. Could a worn-out BlacX be causing the picture to freeze & the drive to clunk loudly? Or could the external Seagate FAP in the BlacX be finally gone? (It's not the DVR, since the HR20-100, attached to the FAP for 6+ years, is now working fine on its own.)
> 
> A few days ago the live picture, and then recordings, began to freeze. The red & blue lights on the BlacX were normal, but sporadic rumbling was getting much louder. Today the DVR was completely frozen, until I disconnected the external drive. All this was just the situation 2+ years ago, until the BlacX for the FAP solved it.
> 
> Is there any maintenance or cleaning possible on the BlacX, or should I try a new one? Any way to diagnose if it's working right?
> 
> Meanwhile, DTV was good enough to make us some great incentives for an HR44. Enjoying our first whole-home experience a lot, but missing that 6-year collection.
> 
> Thank you!


I agree with Rich. If you're still using a drive out of a FAP then you most likely have a dying drive on your hands. Watch what you can in a hurry and then replace the drive.


----------



## RunnerFL

P Smith said:


> the diagnostics must be done for all components of the chain:
> - DVR's eSATA conector
> - eSATA-eSATA cable
> - TT dock's eSATA connector
> - BlacX's controller
> - BlacX's SATA connector
> - the HDD itself.
> 
> Last part of the list is doable by using sell-booting CD with MHDD (preferable method) or Victoria (free program for Windows). Get SMART data, run Scan+Remap, then get SMART again; post results here for future discussion.


Waste of time and effort....


----------



## P Smith

don't waste your time to read my posts and do reply

_*Quod licet Iovi, non licet bovi*_


----------



## CCarncross

P Smith said:


> don't waste your time to read my posts and do reply
> 
> _*Quod licet Iovi, non licet bovia*_


no reason to start be rude again.....and again, and again.....


----------



## P Smith

CCarncross said:


> no reason to start be rude again.....and again, and again.....


take reading of post#2850, how polite it ... n'est-ce pas ? telling you - discussing posters is violation of site's rules


----------



## Rich

RunnerFL said:


> I agree with Rich. If you're still using a drive out of a FAP then you most likely have a dying drive on your hands. Watch what you can in a hurry and then replace the drive.


You gotta admit he got his money's worth out of the HDD in that FAP. I got rid of all of my FAPs years ago.

Rich


----------



## Rich

P Smith said:


> take reading of post#2850, how polite it ... n'est-ce pas ? telling you - discussing posters is violation of site's rules


Deep breaths, Pete, deep breaths.

Rich


----------



## P Smith

Rich said:


> Deep breaths, Pete, deep breaths.
> 
> Rich


I do, I do ... just a natural response to barking dog behind a fence when you passing by and talking to other person


----------



## RunnerFL

Rich said:


> You gotta admit he got his money's worth out of the HDD in that FAP. I got rid of all of my FAPs years ago.
> 
> Rich


Most definitely!


----------



## rahlquist

So hypothetical question. If your internal drive died, is it possible at that point to power down the DVR, install an external and bring the system back online?

Is the HR20 limited size wise for external drives?


----------



## Rich

rahlquist said:


> So hypothetical question. If your internal drive died, is it possible at that point to power down the DVR, install an external and bring the system back online?
> 
> Is the HR20 limited size wise for external drives?


Yup, you sure can save that 20 by doing just that. An even easier way to do it is to put an external drive on it. The size is limited to 2TBs, but that should be plenty. You'll get about 500 hours of recording if you were to fill up the 2TB drive. But you don't want to do that with a 20, you want to keep the HDD at about half full to three quarters full (doesn't matter what size drive you have) or you will start to have problems.

Rich


----------



## rahlquist

Rich said:


> Yup, you sure can save that 20 by doing just that. An even easier way to do it is to put an external drive on it. The size is limited to 2TBs, but that should be plenty. You'll get about 500 hours of recording if you were to fill up the 2TB drive. But you don't want to do that with a 20, you want to keep the HDD at about half full to three quarters full (doesn't matter what size drive you have) or you will start to have problems.
> 
> Rich


Thanks Rich, I see the TT docks are a favorite, are there any non raid e-sata enclosures that make the grade?


----------



## Rich

rahlquist said:


> Thanks Rich, I see the TT docks are a favorite, are there any non raid e-sata enclosures that make the grade?


Thermaltake makes an enclosure that has been used with some success. Here's a _*link*_ to it. Personally, if you own the HR, I think you'd be better off putting the HDD inside rather than using an external device.

Rich


----------



## Bill Broderick

Rich said:


> Thermaltake makes an enclosure that has been used with some success. Here's a _*link*_ to it. Personally, if you own the HR, I think you'd be better off putting the HDD inside rather than using an external device.
> 
> Rich


This is the enclosure that I'm using for my Genie (3TB drive) and one of my HR24's (2TB drive). I've been very happy with them.


----------



## rahlquist

Rich said:


> Thermaltake makes an enclosure that has been used with some success. Here's a _*link*_ to it. Personally, if you own the HR, I think you'd be better off putting the HDD inside rather than using an external device.
> 
> Rich


Thanks, yeah I would much rather go internal strictly from the whole point of having more hardware, power demands, cables for the cat to play with etc.. I cant recall for sure if that receiver is owned stock or not. I guess i will have to check.

Well fudge, D* shows all of our units as leased, and I know for a fact the HR22-100 was an owned unit as we purchased it when the wife worked at D* there was special paperwork she had to fill out and. The first guy was in a quiet environment. Second guy was definitely in a call center. He sent me to an access card agent (the only ones they say can alter that particular flag). The third guy researched it, was able to pull the info on the contractor my wife worked through. Evidently as long as she was employed through them her purchased unit had an owned flag. Once she quit, they automatically revert back to a leased unit. :bang

He did point out that our HR20-100 and HR22-100 are no longer recovered units so in the event we deactivated either, all we would have to return would be the access cards.


----------



## Rich

rahlquist said:


> Thanks, yeah I would much rather go internal strictly from the whole point of having more hardware, power demands, cables for the cat to play with etc.. I cant recall for sure if that receiver is owned stock or not. I guess i will have to check.
> 
> Well fudge, D* shows all of our units as leased, and I know for a fact the HR22-100 was an owned unit as we purchased it when the wife worked at D* there was special paperwork she had to fill out and. The first guy was in a quiet environment. Second guy was definitely in a call center. He sent me to an access card agent (the only ones they say can alter that particular flag). The third guy researched it, was able to pull the info on the contractor my wife worked through. Evidently as long as she was employed through them her purchased unit had an owned flag. Once she quit, they automatically revert back to a leased unit. :bang
> 
> He did point out that our HR20-100 and HR22-100 are no longer recovered units so in the event we deactivated either, all we would have to return would be the access cards.


You can deactivate them and then, by purchasing a new access card, reactivate them and they should show up as owned. I think.

Rich


----------



## rahlquist

Rich said:


> You can deactivate them and then, by purchasing a new access card, reactivate them and they should show up as owned. I think.


Either way, I can safely violate the seal and not have to worry too much. Even though its frowned upon. Lord knows the HR20 surely needs a good cleaning by now being as we have had it for about 7 years.


----------



## CCarncross

The drives will run hotter installed inside in case that may be a concern for some. By switching to external my drives temps dropped 10-15 degrees. After running actively cooled external enclosures and the Thermaltake docks for a few years, the drives last longer running that 10-15 degrees cooler.


----------



## Rich

CCarncross said:


> The drives will run hotter installed inside in case that may be a concern for some. By switching to external my drives temps dropped 10-15 degrees. After running actively cooled external enclosures and the Thermaltake docks for a few years, the drives last longer running that 10-15 degrees cooler.


I dunno. All I know for sure is that I have more problems with external HDDs than I do with internal HDDs. I'm down to one external HDD right at the moment and when that one goes it might be the last one. I don't have the technological background to do anything but report what I experience. I know you have that background and I can't argue with that.

Rich


----------



## CCarncross

I may have been one of the fortunate ones, but I truthfully have never had an issue with an external drive hooked up to any of my HR's...until the drive started to fail of course. One thing I did was always use one of the several highly recommended drive/enclosure combinations. I never strayed to any of the off brands....and I never used any of the pre-packaged ones like the Calvary's, I ALWAYS bought the drives of my choice and put them in the enclosures of my choice, never skimping because this one or that one was on sale....not that I thought you ever did either Rich, but I read plenty of posts from people that did.


----------



## Rich

CCarncross said:


> I may have been one of the fortunate ones, but I truthfully have never had an issue with an external drive hooked up to any of my HR's...until the drive started to fail of course. One thing I did was always use one of the several highly recommended drive/enclosure combinations. I never strayed to any of the off brands....and I never used any of the pre-packaged ones like the Calvary's, I ALWAYS bought the drives of my choice and put them in the enclosures of my choice, never skimping because this one or that one was on sale....not that I thought you ever did either Rich, but I read plenty of posts from people that did.


But even the external devices that we've recommended have problems. TT is never gonna fix that on/off switch and that kinda sours me on them. Even returning them when they go south is a hassle I don't care to deal with. You actually have to pay the shipping on a return item to them. It's gotten to the point where I don't know what to recommend.

Rich


----------



## CCarncross

Since technically we arent supposed to be opening the leased boxes, I'll continue to recommend the externals....some of the less savvy tech people that may have had trouble following the instructions for adding the externals, probably shouldn't be opening the boxes anyway.


----------



## RunnerFL

Here you go, someone give this enclosure a shot.

http://www.amazon.com/Mediasonic-H8R2-SU3S2-ProRaid-External-Enclosure/dp/B005GYDMYQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1402025026&sr=8-1&keywords=H8R2-SU3S2


----------



## P Smith

meaningless recommendation above for use with DVRs :down:


> eSATA interface *requires Port Multiplier w/FIS-based switching on main computer* to enable access to multiple HDDs simultaneously


----------



## RunnerFL

P Smith said:


> meaningless recommendation above for use with DVRs :down:


That info is incorrect. The H82-SU352 requires the port multiplier and the H8*R*2-SU352 does not because it has built in RAID. Go to the manufacturer's website to get the correct info.

http://www.mediasonic.ca/product.php?id=1357290608


----------



## P Smith

reading Amazon's testimonial I wouldn't take a risk of try it as its behavior is unknown with DVRs and you can't return it (they will exchange )

adding to that it has no SATA 6.0 Gbps support


----------



## RunnerFL

P Smith said:


> reading Amazon's testimonial I wouldn't take a risk of try it as its behavior is unknown with DVRs and you can't return it (they will exchange )
> 
> adding to that it has no SATA 6.0 Gbps support


Considering that the eSATA ports on the HR34/44 only run at 3.0 Gbps, they are not "eSATA 6G" ports, I'd say the enclosure would work just fine.

As for the Amazon testimonials.... You may want to read them. Some were posted in 2012 from people saying they own one. Considering they just came out that's not possible. You can't believe everything you read on Amazon.


----------



## Chilcoot

hasan said:


> Success! My previous post outlined an epic fail between a WE30EURS/ThermalTake BlacX Dock and my HR44-700. I returned them and this is what worked:
> 
> The following worked perfectly, first try, no special treatment, just quickly assemble the enclosure, drop the drive in, push forward to mate with connectors, flip holding clip. Ready to go.
> 
> *Western Digital WD20EURX (2 TB SATA III, Amazon)*
> 
> *ThermalTake Max 5 Active Cooking Enclosure (Amazon: double quiet fans, lighted if desired)*


Thank you Hasan for your detailed writeup of what worked for you.

I followed your exact advice and now have what appears to be a fantastic 2TB expander for my new HR44.


----------



## Rich

Chilcoot said:


> Thank you Hasan for your detailed writeup of what worked for you.
> 
> I followed your exact advice and now have what appears to be a fantastic 2TB expander for my new HR44.


The forum never ceases to amuse me. In another thread _*Hasan*_ is brushed off as an Internet poster and here he is lauded for his advice. Personally, I thought the brush off was unwarranted. You served yourself well by listening to his advice. Those EURS HDDs are a royal PITA, I've had a couple and had the same problems he did with them.

Sage advice should never be overlooked.

Rich


----------



## hasan

Chilcoot said:


> Thank you Hasan for your detailed writeup of what worked for you.
> 
> I followed your exact advice and now have what appears to be a fantastic 2TB expander for my new HR44.


Thank you so much Chitcoot! I have gotten a lot of help on these forums over the years and it is always gratifying when a recommendation works out for somebody. I must share the credit, however. I took very sound EXPERIENTIAL advice from Rich quite a few years ago and some since w/r to external drives. Once I figured out what worked well with what, I like to share those experiences to make it easier on others...there are so many blind alleys one might traverse when reading speculation and opinion.When you find someone posting actual experience and carefully detailing the procedures and variables, it can be a great help.

BTW, I continue to use those 2 TB externals on the HR44-700 and HR24-200 and they are doing just fine. I've really given them a bunch of exercise with the NBA finals, College World Series and World Cup.

Have fun!


----------



## Sam-SS

Hi there, I would like to report that my ThermalTake Max 5G enclosure has been running just
fine with a WD20EURS 2tb on one of my HR24s for well over a year. The bad news is that the
EURS just failed and it is out of warranty. Ugh! (I had used the drive in another applacation for some
time).

Out of all of the WD 2tb drives offered, is there another model that would be a better choice
than to replace it with another WD20EURS????

...>>Sam


----------



## dazed&confuzed

I have a WD AV-GP WD30EURX 3TB Drive that I have been using for over a year with no problems on my HR-44-700
Also have a 2TB EURS (Can't remember the exact model) that has been going for almost 5 years on a R-22.
Both are used in Thermaltake BlacX SATA enclosures.
I figure I should probably think about replacing the 2TB drive with something else while I can still extract the data off it.


----------



## Rich

Sam-SS said:


> Hi there, I would like to report that my ThermalTake Max 5G enclosure has been running just
> fine with a WD20EURS 2tb on one of my HR24s for well over a year. The bad news is that the
> EURS just failed and it is out of warranty. Ugh! (I had used the drive in another applacation for some
> time).
> 
> Out of all of the WD 2tb drives offered, is there another model that would be a better choice
> than to replace it with another WD20EURS????
> 
> ...>>Sam


I am of the opinion that the EURS is problematic. Enough posts have been made about this to draw that conclusion. To add to all those posts, I've never had any success with an EURS drive. Admittedly, I don't have a lot of patience with HDDs, but I'd avoid the EURS line. I really don't know what's inside my owned HRs. I should have kept better track of the models when I put them in. None are EURS drives, I know that. And none have ever failed (that's only true of my 2TB internal drives). I do know I've had one EARX running in a TT dock for over two years on a 24-100 that is leased. That's the only external drive I have left.

I find it interesting that I've never lost a 2TB drive when installed internally. Not that I've lost many HDDs, but they seem to be much happier inside an HR than externally. I'm rapping my knuckles on a wooden table as I write this.

Now, everyone can post and tell us how wonderfully their EURS is running. Won't change my mind about them. I'd still recommend avoiding them.

Rich


----------



## Rich

dazed&confuzed said:


> I have a WD AV-GP WD30EURX 3TB Drive that I have been using for over a year with no problems on my HR-44-700
> Also have a 2TB EURS (Can't remember the exact model) that has been going for almost 5 years on a R-22.
> Both are used in Thermaltake BlacX SATA enclosures.
> I figure I should probably think about replacing the 2TB drive with something else while I can still extract the data off it.


Some people get lucky, some don't. Almost 5 years is a really good run. I guess when the EURS HDDs work, they really work well. The EURS HDDs I've bought didn't work well at all. And that happened pretty quickly.

Rich


----------



## ktoonsez

My Antec MX-1 fan died the other day and want to replace it with something new.

Wondering if the Thermaltake Max 5 will work with my HR24-200 just like the Antec MX-1 did?


----------



## Rich

ktoonsez said:


> My Antec MX-1 fan died the other day and want to replace it with something new.
> 
> Wondering if the Thermaltake Max 5 will work with my HR24-200 just like the Antec MX-1 did?


I'm pretty disappointed with TT over the docks. I don't like companies that require you to pay to ship devices that don't work correctly back to them. By the time you do that, you end up losing money. I just threw away several of the docks because of bad on/off switches. Be sure to buy the Max 5 from Amazon and make sure they're responsible for the returns. Don't trust TT to do the right thing, they won't.

Lots of folks have used the Max 5s and had no problems that I've seen.

Rich


----------



## hasan

ktoonsez said:


> My Antec MX-1 fan died the other day and want to replace it with something new.
> 
> Wondering if the Thermaltake Max 5 will work with my HR24-200 just like the Antec MX-1 did?


Mine is working fine on an HR44-700. I have the ThermalTake Dock on an HR24-200 and have had it on an HR20-700. It continues to work fine, although given a choice I like the Max5 enclosure with the fans built in, and of course the drive isn't exposed like it is on the dock.


----------



## ktoonsez

hasan said:


> Mine is working fine on an HR44-700. I have the ThermalTake Dock on an HR24-200 and have had it on an HR20-700. It continues to work fine, although given a choice I like the Max5 enclosure with the fans built in, and of course the drive isn't exposed like it is on the dock.


Thanks for the replies guys, appreciate it . Got some good news on a side note, logged into my account for Directv and realized that I was up for a free upgrade and got the Genie HR44-500 and 2 mini genies for free, got to love that, so as you said thermaltake stuff should work just fine on my newly installed HR44


----------



## Rich

hasan said:


> Mine is working fine on an HR44-700. I have the ThermalTake Dock on an HR24-200 and have had it on an HR20-700. It continues to work fine, although given a choice I like the Max5 enclosure with the fans built in, and of course the drive isn't exposed like it is on the dock.


Quick tip: Trust Hasan! I do.

Rich


----------



## Rich

ktoonsez said:


> Thanks for the replies guys, appreciate it . Got some good news on a side note, logged into my account for Directv and realized that I was up for a free upgrade and got the Genie HR44-500 and 2 mini genies for free, got to love that, so as you said thermaltake stuff should work just fine on my newly installed HR44


You're welcome. We don't get that much chance to help out on eSATA questions as we used to and it's always a pleasure.

Rich


----------



## RunnerFL

Rich said:


> Quick tip: Trust Hasan! I do.
> 
> Rich


Roger that!


----------



## codespy

FWIW- Running 4 different BlacX's on 3 24-100's and 1 on my Genie 34 for a couple years now. Before that I ran 1 Seagate but mostly some EADS and EURX 2TB drives inside my 24's and they ran hotter and eventually started failing. 

Now with the externals, running only EURS 2TB drives and not a single failure yet, even when drives sit at about 95% full on a regular basis. I do rotate the 2TB drives 2 times a year with a 500gig stock drive for about a month just to give them a break from the action.

Knock on wood, I have not had a TT go bad because of the power switch yet.


Sent from my iPad using DBSTalk


----------



## avonabudget

ktoonsez said:


> My Antec MX-1 fan died the other day and want to replace it with something new.
> 
> *Wondering if the Thermaltake Max 5 will work with my HR24-200 just like the Antec MX-1 did?*


It works just fine on My HR24-200 with the following combination* WD20EURS & TT Max 5.*


----------



## Rich

codespy said:


> FWIW- Running 4 different BlacX's on 3 24-100's and 1 on my Genie 34 for a couple years now. Before that I ran 1 Seagate but mostly some EADS and EURX 2TB drives inside my 24's and they ran hotter and eventually started failing.
> 
> Now with the externals, running only EURS 2TB drives and not a single failure yet, even when drives sit at about 95% full on a regular basis. I do rotate the 2TB drives 2 times a year with a 500gig stock drive for about a month just to give them a break from the action.
> 
> _*Knock on wood, I have not had a TT go bad because of the power switch yet.*_
> 
> Sent from my iPad using DBSTalk


I'd be out buying lottery tickets if I were you! Running EURS HDDs without a problem and no problems with the TT's on/off switch, geeze, you're obviously a lucky man. I should have such luck.

Rich


----------



## codespy

I guess I never toggle the power switch on or off, it always stays on since I don't rely on the internal drives because of the heat generation. Heat is the #1 killer of electrical/electronic components.

On a side note, heading to the gas station now to buy some lottery tickets. 


Sent from my iPad using DBSTalk


----------



## Rich

codespy said:


> I guess I never toggle the power switch on or off, it always stays on since I don't rely on the internal drives because of the heat generation. Heat is the #1 killer of electrical/electronic components.
> 
> On a side note, heading to the gas station now to buy some lottery tickets.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using DBSTalk


Since you've never touched the on/off switch, don't. Not that it makes that much difference but it can't hurt to leave it alone. They fail even then, tho. I guess nobody from TT ever reads our forum. Can't be that hard to fix the problem with the switches.

Good luck! May you win a few million!

Rich


----------



## Folin

Anybody use WD's 3TB Purple HDD (Surveillance-A/V) for their DVR with good success? Search for "PURX" brings back nada.

http://www.microcenter.com/product/430613/Purple_Surveillance-AV_24x7_3TB_Intellipower_SATA_III_6Gb-s_35_Hard_Disk_Drive_WD30PURX_-_OEM

Recall one user put in a 4TB Green...am I better off with a Green or other?


----------



## P Smith

if WD Green is good for DVR, then Purple will be perfect too; just pay the premium


----------



## Folin

P Smith said:


> if WD Green is good for DVR, then Purple will be perfect too; just pay the premium


Only Weaknees is implying Green is "good"...or is it that they're cheaper and therefore higher margin to them! So yeah, ~$20 more right now to get the Purple. Probably worth being a guinea pig on it (based ont he WD description if nothing else), plus picking it up quickly, locally vs. shipped.

Oh, this would be for an HR44 and via a Thermaltake BlackX. I've only used a 1TB HDD in that so far...assume it'll work but not sure about the 3TB HDD.


----------



## RunnerFL

P Smith said:


> if WD Green is good for DVR, then Purple will be perfect too; just pay the premium


I wouldn't use WD Green in a DVR at all. Others have reported issues.


----------



## Rich

RunnerFL said:


> I wouldn't use WD Green in a DVR at all. Others have reported issues.


That's all that I use. I've got various Green models and all work well. The only real issues I've seen are with the EURS models and the problems with them appear to be rare. Since 2008 or thereabout, I've only lost one Green HDD and that one was on an eSATA platform. I've never had a problem with an internally mounted Green HDD. (Now, I'm furiously knocking on wood and hoping they all don't crash on me.) I really don't see any problems with them at all.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Folin said:


> Only Weaknees is implying Green is "good"...or is it that they're cheaper and therefore higher margin to them! So yeah, ~$20 more right now to get the Purple. Probably worth being a guinea pig on it (based ont he WD description if nothing else), plus picking it up quickly, locally vs. shipped.
> 
> Oh, this would be for an HR44 and via a Thermaltake BlackX. I've only used a 1TB HDD in that so far...assume it'll work but not sure about the 3TB HDD.


I'm pretty sure the dock will work with a 3TB drive. Not sure I'd try anything with more capacity, tho.

Rich


----------



## Folin

I'm gonna give the PURX a shot. And yeah, I think 3TB is sufficient as well as hopefully work w/ the BlackX.

They finally agreed to send us back one HR-24. Took about 1hr of complaining that my work order (swap a Genie for one of my 3 HR24's) was not done as requested. They came and took all 3 HR24's and left a Genie and two mini's. So I lost of a lot of recording capacity (in channels and storage). This should set me right for the next 3-5 years.

Of course, for some reason the new HR24 isn't showing up in Home Network...so another call will need to be made.

Very pleased w/ the Genie's speed.


----------



## HarryG

I have a 2TB SATA drive (in MX-1 enclosure) that is showing signs of failure. I am looking to upgrade my storage capacity with a new 3TB SATA drive (with MX-1 enclosure) for my HR24-500 DVR.

The large majority of SATA recommendations are for Genies (HR34's and HR44's), and not for HR24's. Any recommendations for HR24-500 compatible 3TB SATA drives (manufacturer/model) would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## P Smith

Isn't only genie support drives bigger then 2 TB?


----------



## peds48

HarryG said:


> I have a 2TB SATA drive (in MX-1 enclosure) that is showing signs of failure. I am looking to upgrade my storage capacity with a new 3TB SATA drive (with MX-1 enclosure) for my HR24-500 DVR.
> 
> The large majority of SATA recommendations are for Genies (HR34's and HR44's), and not for HR24's. Any recommendations for HR24-500 compatible 3TB SATA drives (manufacturer/model) would be greatly appreciated.


HR2x only supports up to 2GB external drives.


----------



## HarryG

P Smith said:


> Isn't only genie support drives bigger then 2 TB?


Not sure, don't own a Genie. I am inquiring about a 3TB SATA drive for an HR24-500.


----------



## HarryG

peds48 said:


> HR2x only supports up to 2GB external drives.


Thanks. Looks like I won't be able to upgrade my storage capacity. I still need to replace the failing SATA drive. Can you recommend a new compatible 2TB SATA drive?


----------



## Rich

HarryG said:


> Thanks. Looks like I won't be able to upgrade my storage capacity. I still need to replace the failing SATA drive. Can you recommend a new compatible 2TB SATA drive?


Any Green Caviar Western Digital HDD will work well with a 24. Amazon usually has one model on sale.

Rich


----------



## P Smith

HarryG said:


> Not sure, don't own a Genie. I am inquiring about a 3TB SATA drive for an HR24-500.


the answer has been done here so many times ... I'm puzzled how you missed it ?


----------



## RunnerFL

peds48 said:


> HR2x only supports up to 2GB external drives.


TB, 2GB wouldn't even be a HD Recording.


----------



## RunnerFL

HarryG said:


> Not sure, don't own a Genie. I am inquiring about a 3TB SATA drive for an HR24-500.


You would be wasting 1TB. The limit on an HR24 is 2TB.


----------



## peds48

RunnerFL said:


> TB, 2GB wouldn't even be a HD Recording.


Yep, typo. Thanks!


----------



## Jason Whiddon

FYI, I just added a HR24-500 to my Genie setup to record backup recordings.

Using this enclosure:

Thermaltake Max 5 Active Cooling Hard Drive Enclosure with Two 80mm Fans

And this drive:

WD AV-GP 2 TB WD20EURS

Working well so far.


----------



## harsh

P Smith said:


> the answer has been done here so many times ... I'm puzzled how you missed it ?


Surely if you ask enough, the answer will change in your favor.


----------



## reformedtaper

Can I re-activate an HR-20 700 with a new access card and be able to view programming on my e-sata drive?


----------



## peds48

reformedtaper said:


> Can I re-activate an HR-20 700 with a new access card and be able to view programming on my e-sata drive?


Is the programming on your e-SATA drive from the same HR20? If the answer is yes, then yes you can reactivate the HR20 and watch the programming on the HDDVR


----------



## Lsol

I purchased the WD30EURX and the Anker® USB 3.0 & eSATA to SATA External Hard Drive Docking Station, it seems to be working for my HR44-500. For the HR24-500 I purchased the WD20EURX along with the Thermaltake BlacX eSATA USB Docking Station. The DVR reboots and freezes. any recommendations for the HR24?


----------



## Rich

Lsol said:


> I purchased the WD30EURX and the Anker® USB 3.0 & eSATA to SATA External Hard Drive Docking Station, it seems to be working for my HR44-500. For the HR24-500 I purchased the WD20EURX along with the Thermaltake BlacX eSATA USB Docking Station. The DVR reboots and freezes. any recommendations for the HR24?


We have seen more complaints about the EURS HDDs than any of the WD Green HDDs. I'd send it back and get a different model. I kinda doubt that the problem is with the dock. Usually the problems we see with the docks are related to the on/off switch. I can't remember having any other problems with my many docks other than the on/off switch. I'd replace that HDD.

Rich


----------



## Rich

BTW, the WD Green HDDs come with a 2 year warranty.

Rich


----------



## Lsol

Thank you for the quick reply. How about the WD20EZRX. And should I also return the WD30EURX even thou it seems to be ok?


----------



## Rich

Lsol said:


> Thank you for the quick reply. How about the WD20EZRX. And should I also return the WD30EURX even thou it seems to be ok?


I've been using a couple of EZRX HDDs without any problems. I have one in a dock and at least one internally mounted. If you have the 3TB EURS and it's working as it should, I'd keep it. The problems I've read about with the EURS HDDs usually show up right away. I trust you've tried that 500 with the EURS off it and it hasn't shown any of the symptoms you've seen when the EURS is hooked up to it?

Rich


----------



## Lsol

Rich said:


> I've been using a couple of EZRX HDDs without any problems. I have one in a dock and at least one internally mounted. If you have the 3TB EURS and it's working as it should, I'd keep it. The problems I've read about with the EURS HDDs usually show up right away. I trust you've tried that 500 with the EURS off it and it hasn't shown any of the symptoms you've seen when the EURS is hooked up to it?
> 
> Rich


No problems when not using the EUR. I'll return the EUR and buy the WD20EZRX. Thanks for your help.


----------



## Rich

Lsol said:


> No problems when not using the EUR. I'll return the EUR and buy the WD20EZRX. Thanks for your help.


You're welcome. And I'd also like to thank the many members who have EURS drives that work well for not jumping in and telling us how well they work. I know most of them work and I appreciate not having to read all those "My EURS works perfectly" comments. Seriously.

Rich


----------



## reformedtaper

peds48 said:


> Is the programming on your e-SATA drive from the same HR20? If the answer is yes, then yes you can reactivate the HR20 and watch the programming on the HDDVR


Thanks for the reply. The programming is from the same DVR.


----------



## fudpucker

OK - I've read until my eyes bleed, LOL! Lots of good stuff, but I just ordered my new DTV install, Genie system and I want to start day 1 with the upgraded storage. SO - if I could get some hand holding here. On the Dish systems it was easy, just plug in an external USB drive and you're done. Here a little more complex.

SO - while I feel you can never have too much storage, I decided to go with the external 3T drive (instead of a 4T.) After reading a lot here, it came down to the WD Green or WD Purple, and it SEEMS like the Purple might be a bit more suited to streaming video off of it and it's only $20 more - so looking at this:

http://www.amazon.com/Intellipower-sata_6_0_gb-3-5-Inch-Internal-WD30PURX/dp/B00IMPO5N8/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1408499427&sr=8-2&keywords=western+digital+purple

For the case, I see some saying the don't like the TT power switch issues, but I haven't seen a link to another recommended case? If yes, please let me know, otherwise thinking of this:

http://www.amazon.com/Thermaltake-Active-Cooling-Enclosure-ST0021U/dp/B004G8QETS/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1398793867&sr=1-2&keywords=thermaltake+enclosure

Now, having not used external eSATA drives in the past, and not wanting to want to hook it all up with the new Genie and be missing something, I assume I'll also need to order an eSATA cable to connect the enclosure to the Genie? How about mounting screws? Anything else I need?

And lastly - do I just say goodbye to the installer, make sure I'm getting all my channels and the install went well, then immediately connect the external drive? Or do I need to record something on the internal drive first? And any need to do any kind of set up with the drive on my PC first?

Thanks!


----------



## peds48

fudpucker said:


> http://www.amazon.com/Intellipower-sata_6_0_gb-3-5-Inch-Internal-WD30PURX/dp/B00IMPO5N8/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1408499427&sr=8-2&keywords=western+digital+purple


While not related to your question, I just found it "funny" how Amazon decided to white out the Serial Number but left the bar code in place. The bar code under SN number reads WMPPP1234567 while this bar code might be a "funny" one, then why cover the number in the first place&#8230;.. :shrug:


----------



## fudpucker

peds48 said:


> While not related to your question, I just found it "funny" how Amazon decided to white out the Serial Number but left the bar code in place. The bar code under SN number reads WMPPP1234567 while this bar code might be a "funny" one, then why cover the number in the first place&#8230;.. :shrug:


Yeah I guess it didn't occur to them that the bar code had the same info.


----------



## Rich

fudpucker said:


> OK - I've read until my eyes bleed, LOL! Lots of good stuff, but I just ordered my new DTV install, Genie system and I want to start day 1 with the upgraded storage. SO - if I could get some hand holding here. On the Dish systems it was easy, just plug in an external USB drive and you're done. Here a little more complex.
> 
> SO - while I feel you can never have too much storage, I decided to go with the external 3T drive (instead of a 4T.) After reading a lot here, it came down to the WD Green or WD Purple, and it SEEMS like the Purple might be a bit more suited to streaming video off of it and it's only $20 more - so looking at this:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Intellipower-sata_6_0_gb-3-5-Inch-Internal-WD30PURX/dp/B00IMPO5N8/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1408499427&sr=8-2&keywords=western+digital+purple
> 
> For the case, I see some saying the don't like the TT power switch issues, but I haven't seen a link to another recommended case? If yes, please let me know, otherwise thinking of this:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Thermaltake-Active-Cooling-Enclosure-ST0021U/dp/B004G8QETS/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1398793867&sr=1-2&keywords=thermaltake+enclosure
> 
> Now, having not used external eSATA drives in the past, and not wanting to want to hook it all up with the new Genie and be missing something, I assume I'll also need to order an eSATA cable to connect the enclosure to the Genie? How about mounting screws? Anything else I need?
> 
> And lastly - do I just say goodbye to the installer, make sure I'm getting all my channels and the install went well, then immediately connect the external drive? Or do I need to record something on the internal drive first? And any need to do any kind of set up with the drive on my PC first?
> 
> Thanks!


Most eSATA devices come with the cable. All the TT devices do, I think. You don't really need anything else. _*RunnerFL*_ will probably pop up and explain about the formatting on the various models of the Genies.

Rich


----------



## RunnerFL

fudpucker said:


> And lastly - do I just say goodbye to the installer, make sure I'm getting all my channels and the install went well, then immediately connect the external drive? Or do I need to record something on the internal drive first? And any need to do any kind of set up with the drive on my PC first?


You'll probably want to leave it as-is and record at least one thing first. That way you can verify that you're running off the internal vs the external. Not all HR44 models require anything be done to the drive but you're better off just hooking it up to a pc regardless of which HR44 you get. Just hook it up to a PC and let it initialize the drive, that's all. Once you've done that power down the HR44, hook up the external, power on the external then power on the HR44.


----------



## RunnerFL

Rich said:


> Most eSATA devices come with the cable. All the TT devices do, I think. You don't really need anything else. _*RunnerFL*_ will probably pop up and explain about the formatting on the various models of the Genies.
> 
> Rich


Am I that predictable? lol


----------



## Rich

RunnerFL said:


> Am I that predictable? lol


Yup, and that ain't a bad thing.

Rich


----------



## fudpucker

Cool thanks for the quick replies. Silly as it sounds - does the drive or enclosure come with mounting screws?

Also - I saw the comments on the TT switch going bad, but I haven't seen recommendations for a different enclosure - is there another that is the consensus "best?"

And lastly - theoretically, I could connect a different drive to the Genie and, say, record a lot of film noir or other movies on it, then disconnect and connect a different drive for normal daily recordings, then reconnect the "movie drive" when I wanted to watch those, right? I don't anticipate needing to do this, but on our Dish system we tend to packrat a lot of stuff we want to watch later on an external USB drive.


----------



## Rich

fudpucker said:


> Cool thanks for the quick replies. Silly as it sounds - does the drive or enclosure come with mounting screws?
> 
> Also - I saw the comments on the TT switch going bad, but I haven't seen recommendations for a different enclosure - is there another that is the consensus "best?"
> 
> And lastly - theoretically, I could connect a different drive to the Genie and, say, record a lot of film noir or other movies on it, then disconnect and connect a different drive for normal daily recordings, then reconnect the "movie drive" when I wanted to watch those, right? I don't anticipate needing to do this, but on our Dish system we tend to packrat a lot of stuff we want to watch later on an external USB drive.


You will get everything you need in the enclosure's box. There should be no problems with the on/off switch, that only applies to the Thermaltake docks. You should have no problems with the enclosure.

You can use as many HDDs as you want, but keep in mind that the HDDs are actually "married" to the Genie and cannot be played on any other DVR than the one you recorded them on. 

Rich


----------



## fudpucker

Rich said:


> You will get everything you need in the enclosure's box. There should be no problems with the on/off switch, that only applies to the Thermaltake docks. You should have no problems with the enclosure.
> 
> You can use as many HDDs as you want, but keep in mind that the HDDs are actually "married" to the Genie and cannot be played on any other DVR than the one you recorded them on.
> 
> Rich


Ah, that's how ignorant I am on this, I didn't realize the docks and enclosures were different items. Duh. Thanks


----------



## Rich

No problem, you really didn't have to read all that, you could have just asked us what we recommend. These eSATA threads are so long that a lot of the info is outdated or just wrong.

Rich


----------



## fudpucker

Rich said:


> No problem, you really didn't have to read all that, you could have just asked us what we recommend. These eSATA threads are so long that a lot of the info is outdated or just wrong.
> 
> Rich


Yeah, but then P Smith would answer with "Why don't you read the thread? That has been answered many times."


----------



## racermd

Just got done upgrading one of my "ancient" HR20-700 (I was running a trio of them until last week) with a new HR44-500. Was using some WD "Green" drives of various types on the HR20s through their life and decided to not buck the trend. However, knowing the HR44 can address more than 2TB of space, I went with the 4TB WD40EZRX and a Rosewill METAS eSATA/USB3 enclosure.

One initial problem I had was the HR44 recognizing the drive when I first connected everything together. Turns out, I needed to get the drive connected to my desktop computer to initialize the drive first. Once that was done, the HR44 picked it right up on the next reboot.

And I agree this thread is a little out of control. There should probably be a sticky post with known-good and -bad drives and enclosures.


----------



## hasan

I think the best solution is to just read no more than the last 50 - 100 posts. No matter how it got cleaned out and/or stickied, it would obselesce in a matter of a few weeks to months. 

The other thing is that there are a bunch of us who watch this thread fairly closely, and if there is a question, no matter how old or how many times others may have answered it, we try to help.

Ignore those who complain that the poster's question has been asked and answered before...those comments are just from people who have too much time on their hands, and no real desire to help.


----------



## Bill Broderick

fudpucker said:


> Ah, that's how ignorant I am on this, I didn't realize the docks and enclosures were different items. Duh. Thanks


The link that you posted earlier was to an enclosure. A dock is basically a small case that you can "plug" a hard drive into. Here is the Thermaltake dock that many people here use.

I have two of the enclosures that you linked to and like them very much. These enclosures contain two cooling fans. The docks rely on the fact that the hard drive is exposed to keep it cool. If you really think that you would want to swap multiple hard drives into a DVR, then the dock would make more sense for you because it is very easy to swap drives in a dock, whereas it would take some effort to swap drives inside of an enclosure.

BTW, the photo of the dock on Amazon shows that it contains blue LED's. These lights can be disabled with switch that's located near the power switch.


----------



## fudpucker

Bill Broderick said:


> The link that you posted earlier was to an enclosure. A dock is basically a small case that you can "plug" a hard drive into. Here is the Thermaltake dock that many people here use.
> 
> I have two of the enclosures that you linked to and like them very much. These enclosures contain two cooling fans. The docks rely on the fact that the hard drive is exposed to keep it cool. If you really think that you would want to swap multiple hard drives into a DVR, then the dock would make more sense for you because it is very easy to swap drives in a dock, whereas it would take some effort to swap drives inside of an enclosure.
> 
> BTW, the photo of the dock on Amazon shows that it contains blue LED's. These lights can be disabled with switch that's located near the power switch.


Thanks, I think I'll start with the enclosure, and then if I decide swapping drives on occasion is something I want to do I'll probably just buy another enclosure/drive combo. Right now I don't even have my new Genie install (moving over from Dish) so need to get a feel for the system. I just know I'm gonna need more than 1T storage and want to add it before I have a bunch of recordings on the internal drive.


----------



## hasan

fudpucker said:


> Thanks, I think I'll start with the enclosure, and then if I decide swapping drives on occasion is something I want to do I'll probably just buy another enclosure/drive combo. Right now I don't even have my new Genie install (moving over from Dish) so need to get a feel for the system. I just know I'm gonna need more than 1T storage and want to add it before I have a bunch of recordings on the internal drive.


As others have mentioned, 2 TB is easy, no special initialization needed. Above 2 TB, some of the Genie's (like the HR44-700) require drive initialization on a PC before connecting to the D* box. I'm using a 2 TB and a Max 5 enclosure by ThermalTake (same maker as the BlacX Dock) on my HR44-700 and it took right off. When I initially tried a 3 TB, it wouldn't work (wasn't initialized). The more I thought about it, the more I realized I had no need for 3 TB as 2 TB was plenty and the more you record, the more you will lose if you are archiving instead of watching to catch up.


----------



## RunnerFL

fudpucker said:


> And lastly - theoretically, I could connect a different drive to the Genie and, say, record a lot of film noir or other movies on it, then disconnect and connect a different drive for normal daily recordings, then reconnect the "movie drive" when I wanted to watch those, right? I don't anticipate needing to do this, but on our Dish system we tend to packrat a lot of stuff we want to watch later on an external USB drive.


Sure, you can however keep in mind that your Series Links go with the hard drive so you'd need to setup Series Links for each drive.


----------



## fudpucker

hasan said:


> As others have mentioned, 2 TB is easy, no special initialization needed. Above 2 TB, some of the Genie's (like the HR44-700) require drive initialization on a PC before connecting to the D* box. I'm using a 2 TB and a Max 5 enclosure by ThermalTake (same maker as the BlacX Dock) on my HR44-700 and it took right off. When I initially tried a 3 TB, it wouldn't work (wasn't initialized). The more I thought about it, the more I realized I had no need for 3 TB as 2 TB was plenty and the more you record, the more you will lose if you are archiving instead of watching to catch up.


Heck, I had to force myself to choose the 3T WD purple instead of the 4T, LOL! We're bad about recording an entire season of a series and not watching it until later, and we record a lot of old movies, specials, etc.


----------



## hasan

fudpucker said:


> Heck, I had to force myself to choose the 3T WD purple instead of the 4T, LOL! We're bad about recording an entire season of a series and not watching it until later, and we record a lot of old movies, specials, etc.


That's certainly fine, I do some of the same, just understand that when that drive goes bad, whatever is on it is gone forever except any OTA recordings you may have done using the AM21 OTA Tuner Add-On...those can be watched across machines (or at least at one time they could, because they do not originate from DirecTV satellite service at all, but rather your local OTA broadcast staton

One thing to consider, if you think a drive is going bad, you can buy a hard drive cloner (I have one). It lets you drop a source drive into its dock, and you put a new drive into the target slot of the dock and it makes a perfect bit by bit copy of the original failing drive (assuming the failing drive still works). I did this with a five year old eSATA drive and the new cloned copy works perfectly and all my existing recordings were preserved in the bit by bit copy on the new drive.

If it is the receiver box itself that fails, then you are SOL. Catch a drive failure early and you can preserve everything, but if the box itself goes south, it's bye bye recordings.


----------



## RunnerFL

fudpucker said:


> Heck, I had to force myself to choose the 3T WD purple instead of the 4T, LOL! We're bad about recording an entire season of a series and not watching it until later, and we record a lot of old movies, specials, etc.


There's nothing bad about recording a whole season before watching it.


----------



## fudpucker

OK just got my install, good guy. HR44 and two minis. So - how do I know if my 3T WD Purple is being recognized/used? I recorded a minute of something on the internal, deleted it, turned off the Genie, then connected my WD 3T Purple eSATA turned it on, turned the Genie back on. Didn't see anything, did a reset of the Genie. It reset, came up. but I have no idea if it is seeing/using the eSATA drive - can't find a place where it shows free HD space.


----------



## David Ortiz

> OK just got my install, good guy. HR44 and two minis. So - how do I know if my 3T WD Purple is being recognized/used? I recorded a minute of something on the internal, deleted it, turned off the Genie, then connected my WD 3T Purple eSATA turned it on, turned the Genie back on. Didn't see anything, did a reset of the Genie. It reset, came up. but I have no idea if it is seeing/using the eSATA drive - can't find a place where it shows free HD space.


Record something on the internal drive and leave it there. If you don't see that recording with the external connected then you're good.


----------



## fudpucker

OK, when some people talk about the need to initialize the 3T drive on the PC first - because it does not seem to be formatting the drive when I connect it to the HR-44 (I did the Menu Restart, pull the plug when the 44 front panel went dark, turned on the eSATA drive and plugged it into the 44, then plugged in the 44 to the power again - got the full reset messages, including finding sat, etc. but then no message on the external drive.) Anyway - I plugged the eSATA drive into my PC - do I need to format it on the PC first?


----------



## fudpucker

ADDENDUM: OK, I initilized the drive on my PC (figured it out) but there were two options on initializing. Since the drive is 3 T, when I used the MBR option for initializing, I got two partitions (since MBR won't create a partition larger than about 2.2T)

I once again hooked everything up, unplugged the Genie 44, plugged in the eSATA drive/enclosure (WD 3 T Purple) and this time when I plugged the Genie in I got a VERY brief message that said Initializing External Storage or something similar. It we very quick - less than 5 seconds - I expected it to take 20 seconds or more. Huh.

Anyway, looked at the playlist and there was nothing recorded, so since I didn't see the items I recorded on the internal drive I assume it is using the eSATA drive.

One more question, though: Since the MBR initialize creates two partitions for the 3T drive, how can I know if the Genie sees all 3 T of the HDD?


----------



## fudpucker

Does anyone have a rough estimate of how much a 1 hour HD show (such as a network show, not a 1080i movie) takes up in terms of space on the HDD? Want to do a rough estimate to see if the HR44 is seeing all 3 T of my external drive,

Thanks,


----------



## RunnerFL

fudpucker said:


> One more question, though: Since the MBR initialize creates two partitions for the 3T drive, how can I know if the Genie sees all 3 T of the HDD?


Faith... Seriously though, the unit formatted it to use the entire space. It killed your disk label, partition, etc.


----------



## RunnerFL

fudpucker said:


> Does anyone have a rough estimate of how much a 1 hour HD show (such as a network show, not a 1080i movie) takes up in terms of space on the HDD? Want to do a rough estimate to see if the HR44 is seeing all 3 T of my external drive,
> 
> Thanks,


If you have to know for sure the only way is to power everything down and hook it back up to your PC. You'll either see 1 big partition or you won't.


----------



## fudpucker

RunnerFL said:


> Faith... Seriously though, the unit formatted it to use the entire space. It killed your disk label, partition, etc.


OK, cool. I was worried since the PC initialization created two partitions that it would only see and use one of them.

Amazing how fast the initialization occurred on the Genie - I expected at least 1 minute of "preparing external drive" or whatever it says, but if I hadn't been watching. I would have missed the formatting message.


----------



## RunnerFL

fudpucker said:


> OK, cool. I was worried since the PC initialization created two partitions that it would only see and use one of them.
> 
> Amazing how fast the initialization occurred on the Genie - I expected at least 1 minute of "preparing external drive" or whatever it says, but if I hadn't been watching. I would have missed the formatting message.


Linux partitions and formats faster than Winslows...


----------



## fudpucker

RunnerFL said:


> Linux partitions and formats faster than Winslows...


So it seems! Never seen 3T get formatted in 10 seconds or less before!  Obviously it did since it is using the drive (I recorded something on the internal drive first, to make sure it didn't show in the playlist after I installed the external drive.)


----------



## P Smith

the message related to internal NAND storage, not HDD

but , really all your postings doesn't belong to the topic

"eSATA - DIRECTV recommended list"


----------



## Rich

But it was all good info and that's what everyone can use. 

Rich


----------



## P Smith

But it should be in his own thread. With correct name and direction.

Adding to that, we have dedicated threads to HR44 and its quirks of formatting or not an external eSATA HDD.


----------



## fudpucker

P Smith said:


> But it should be in his own thread. With correct name and direction.
> 
> Adding to that, we have dedicated threads to HR44 and its quirks of formatting or not an external eSATA HDD.


Thank you Mr. Forum Police.


----------



## Rich

fudpucker said:


> Thank you Mr. Forum Police.


He has a good point, I think I have a good point. We are what we are, we're not gonna change. I wouldn't search for an answer, I'd ask the question on the open forum or by PM. Mr. Smith disagrees. Life goes on.

Rich


----------



## P Smith

fudpucker said:


> Thank you Mr. Forum Police.


You are welcome, Mr. Forum Don'tCare


----------



## Rich

And so it goes. :rolling:

Rich


----------



## hasan

fudpucker said:


> Does anyone have a rough estimate of how much a 1 hour HD show (such as a network show, not a 1080i movie) takes up in terms of space on the HDD? Want to do a rough estimate to see if the HR44 is seeing all 3 T of my external drive,
> 
> Thanks,


In this thread somewhere (you will need to search for something like recording time or capacity), some numbers were published (I know, cuz I submitted them). It's been so long, I'm not sure I can recall correctly, but here's the best guess from my memory:

A 2 TB drive recording mpeg-4 high def from DirecTV will yield between 400 and 450 hours of recording time...that's what is banging around in the mush that used to be my memory.


----------



## inkahauts

It's close to 4 gig an hour but recall its variable so it's just a guesstimate...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## fudpucker

inkahauts said:


> It's close to 4 gig an hour but recall its variable so it's just a guesstimate...
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Thanks, that's close enough for gov work.


----------



## RunnerFL

P Smith said:


> the message related to internal NAND storage, not HDD
> 
> but , really all your postings doesn't belong to the topic
> "eSATA - DIRECTV recommended list"


No, it's not. The formatting storage device message he is talking about is when the HDD is formatted.


----------



## P Smith

hehehe ... have you formatted any EXT3 or EXT4 multipartitons 2 or 4 TB drive by much powerful PC with Linux ? and it took 10 seconds ? BS, Mr. .... nothing else.


----------



## fudpucker

P Smith said:


> hehehe ... have you formatted any EXT3 or EXT4 multipartitons 2 or 4 TB drive by much powerful PC with Linux ? and it took 10 seconds ? BS, Mr. .... nothing else.


Please - this does not belong in this topic.


----------



## Folin

fudpucker said:


> Does anyone have a rough estimate of how much a 1 hour HD show (such as a network show, not a 1080i movie) takes up in terms of space on the HDD? Want to do a rough estimate to see if the HR44 is seeing all 3 T of my external drive,
> 
> Thanks,


Very quick/rough count thru "list", I've got just over 150hrs on a 3TB PURX and seeing 83% free space right now. Pretty sure it's all HD recordings as well.


----------



## mocarob

Folin said:


> Very quick/rough count thru "list", I've got just over 150hrs on a 3TB PURX and seeing 83% free space right now. Pretty sure it's all HD recordings as well.


Are larger than 2tb esata drives supported now?? When did that happen? Does it depend on the model of DVR?


----------



## inkahauts

mocarob said:


> Are larger than 2tb esata drives supported now?? When did that happen? Does it depend on the model of DVR?


Genes only are unlimited. (Others are still 2tb and will likely never change) Well at least someone got it to take 12 TB at least an wasn't an issue. So seems unlimited.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## RunnerFL

P Smith said:


> hehehe ... have you formatted any EXT3 or EXT4 multipartitons 2 or 4 TB drive by much powerful PC with Linux ? and it took 10 seconds ? BS, Mr. .... nothing else.


As a matter of fact I have. I've formatted more EXT4 drives than you've formatted drives in your lifetime. It takes nearly no time at all. Formatting XFS is even faster.


----------



## RunnerFL

mocarob said:


> Are larger than 2tb esata drives supported now?? When did that happen? Does it depend on the model of DVR?


On Genies only, there is no limit.


----------



## hasan

Turns out my memory was pretty good. I just went through and calculated my 2 TB drive, with all mpeg-4 HD recordings:

73 hours recorded, 18% used

73/(0.18) = *405 hours total capacity for 2 TB*

2048 gB / 405 hours = * 5 gB per hour*

All of this will vary by program material, of course, but should get us in the ballpark. I've done this calculation on multiple drives and multiple D* boxes and pretty much consistently gotten between 400 and 450 hours per 2 TB drive.


----------



## Drew2k

hasan said:


> Turns out my memory was pretty good. I just went through and calculated my 2 TB drive, with all mpeg-4 HD recordings:
> 
> 73 hours recorded, 18% used
> 
> 73/(0.18) = *405 hours total capacity for 2 TB*
> 
> 2048 gB / 405 hours = * 5 gB per hour*
> 
> All of this will vary by program material, of course, but should get us in the ballpark. I've done this calculation on multiple drives and multiple D* boxes and pretty much consistently gotten between 400 and 450 hours per 2 TB drive.


Keep in mind that DIRECTV auto-pads 2 minutes and 30 second per recording, where the user did not manually add padding, so that may change the calculations above if that auto-padding wasn't included in the "73 hours". (Ex: Looking at a playlist of 24 one-hour recordings, the DVR is actually storing 25 hours of recordings, due to the auto-padding.)


----------



## Rich

Folin said:


> Very quick/rough count thru "list", I've got just over 150hrs on a 3TB PURX and seeing 83% free space right now. Pretty sure it's all HD recordings as well.


As _*Inkahauts*_ said it varies with the content. When the 20-700s came out I was getting about 50 hours of recordings on some of them. They weren't rated for anywhere near that. I don't remember what the rating was. In any event, it's all about the content. I don't keep any of my 2TB units anywhere near full, so I haven't given much thought to these questions in years.

Rich


----------



## Rich

inkahauts said:


> Genes only are unlimited. (Others are still 2tb and will likely never change) Well at least someone got it to take 12 TB at least an wasn't an issue. So seems unlimited.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


"Someone" reached that point and quickly backed off. One of our saner members. He was just testing.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Drew2k said:


> Keep in mind that DIRECTV auto-pads 2 minutes and 30 second per recording, where the user did not manually add padding, so that may change the calculations above if that auto-padding wasn't included in the "73 hours". (Ex: Looking at a playlist of 24 one-hour recordings, the DVR is actually storing 25 hours of recordings, due to the auto-padding.)


Welcome back!

Rich


----------



## inkahauts

Rich said:


> "Someone" reached that point and quickly backed off. One of our saner members. He was just testing.
> 
> Rich


As I recall he backed off because he preferred redundancy rather than size when it was that big. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Rich

inkahauts said:


> As I recall he backed off because he preferred redundancy rather than size when it was that big.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That and losing all that content.

Rich


----------



## Drew2k

Rich said:


> Welcome back!
> 
> Rich


Thanks Rich.


----------



## fudpucker

hasan said:


> Turns out my memory was pretty good. I just went through and calculated my 2 TB drive, with all mpeg-4 HD recordings:
> 
> 73 hours recorded, 18% used
> 
> 73/(0.18) = *405 hours total capacity for 2 TB*
> 
> 2048 gB / 405 hours = * 5 gB per hour*
> 
> All of this will vary by program material, of course, but should get us in the ballpark. I've done this calculation on multiple drives and multiple D* boxes and pretty much consistently gotten between 400 and 450 hours per 2 TB drive.


Perfect, that is close enough for what I was trying to figure out!


----------



## RunnerFL

Rich said:


> "Someone" reached that point and quickly backed off. One of our saner members. He was just testing.
> 
> Rich


 Saner? lol Thanks for the compliment, Rich.

I'd like to pick up one of these 8 bay RAID enclosures and see what I can do with it.


----------



## RunnerFL

inkahauts said:


> As I recall he backed off because he preferred redundancy rather than size when it was that big.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes, I went from RAID0 to RAID5. I wanted to see if it would take the 12.


----------



## P Smith

RunnerFL said:


> As a matter of fact I have. I've formatted more EXT4 drives than *you've formatted drives in your lifetime*. It takes nearly no time at all. Formatting XFS is even faster.


Don't be so quick, cowboy  perhaps my number of Linux HDD is not that high as your, but number of formatted Windows/Novell/IBM360 drives could easily exceed your total number 

BTW, would you make short (10 sec by your claim) Vimeo how your 2TB EXT3 drive has been formatted ?


----------



## inkahauts

RunnerFL said:


> Saner? lol Thanks for the compliment, Rich.
> 
> I'd like to pick up one of these 8 bay RAID enclosures and see what I can do with it.


I can picture it now. 8 of the new 8TB drives in raid 0. 64tb. Good grief! :lol:

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## P Smith

inkahauts said:


> I can picture it now. 8 of the new 8TB drives in raid 0. 64tb. Good grief! :lol:
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


interesting to know 8TB HDD's price... perhaps for some ppll working in datacenter it's free


----------



## RunnerFL

P Smith said:


> Don't be so quick, cowboy  perhaps my number of Linux HDD is not that high as your, but number of formatted Windows/Novell/IBM360 drives could easily exceed your total number
> 
> BTW, would you make short (10 sec by your claim) Vimeo how your 2TB EXT3 drive has been formatted ?


Cowboy? So now you're calling me names? No, I will not make you another video. I made a video to prove you wrong in the past and even with the hard facts you called me a liar. I won't waste my time again.

The number of drives I've worked with more than trump the number you've worked with probably at least 3 times over.


----------



## RunnerFL

inkahauts said:


> I can picture it now. 8 of the new 8TB drives in raid 0. 64tb. Good grief! :lol:
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I've got some 6TB's at work. lol


----------



## RunnerFL

P Smith said:


> interesting to know 8TB HDD's price... perhaps for some ppll working in datacenter it's free


I don't like your insinuation. I don't steal from my employer. I pay for everything I have.


----------



## Rich

Drew2k said:


> Thanks Rich.


You're welcome. Someday I hope you can tell us...

Rich


----------



## Rich

RunnerFL said:


> Saner? lol Thanks for the compliment, Rich.
> 
> I'd like to pick up one of these 8 bay RAID enclosures and see what I can do with it.


Just my opinion, but you're welcome.

Rich


----------



## Sam-SS

Ok, Ritch, I now fully agree with you as to WD20EURS drives not working well as externals on DirecTV DVRs.

I have fought problems with my HR-24 DVR with one of these for months. What was happening is that with the drive installed,
the sound and vidio would skip in and out at times. Also, when perusing theough the guide, it would hang at times and take some
time to free up. I also tried a WD15EURS and tried a Max 5 and a NexStar 3 enclosuires in various combinations but no joy.
This also affected playback of recorded material. I eventually discovered that this unit worked perfectly with the internal drive.

So, I ordered a WD20EZRX 2tb drive and installed it in the same old Max 5 and it has worked perfectly ever since.

Let me also mention that with the EURS drive installed, the problems also affected the LIST on a second HR-24 DVR hooked up
through Whole-Home as well as it would skip when playing stuff off of the troublesome drive. Once the new drive was installed
on the first DVR, the problems on the second DVR went away.

I realize that some folks have had no problems with the EURS drives but I thought I would report that I clearly did.

Once again, thanks for the tips, Rich.

...>>Sam


----------



## i49mobile

I am getting a Hr44 on Friday. I currently have a Hr20-700 in a MX-1 with a WD20EURS that I plan on keeping. What 2TB drive should I buy. I read the postings. I know lot of you like the WD20EZRX which is on Amazon for 81 bucks. Will the WD red WD20efrx for 99 bucks work and if so is it worth the extra 18 bucks. thanks Steve


----------



## P Smith

As you mention your reading the thread, it come each week/month same your question about installing a drive what is new model or never been reported here by various reasons...
I'm sure you've seen pretty standard response to such question: we have no data to give you finite answer, so try it and report here. It will help find an answer for similar question about the model for future requests.


----------



## hasan

Drew2k said:


> Keep in mind that DIRECTV auto-pads 2 minutes and 30 second per recording, where the user did not manually add padding, so that may change the calculations above if that auto-padding wasn't included in the "73 hours". (Ex: Looking at a playlist of 24 one-hour recordings, the DVR is actually storing 25 hours of recordings, due to the auto-padding.)


Hi Drew, long time no see! Yes that's certainly true. When I originally did the calc, there was no padding...HR20-700 early...., now of course, it could add up but I'm fairly certain that 2 TB will deliver 400-450 hours, auto-padding aside, and content differences (which are clearly there), will probably wash out with a decent sample size. I do think the per/hour might be closer to the 4 g/hr than 5 for some people. Nice to see you again.


----------



## fudpucker

i49mobile said:


> I am getting a Hr44 on Friday. I currently have a Hr20-700 in a MX-1 with a WD20EURS that I plan on keeping. What 2TB drive should I buy. I read the postings. I know lot of you like the WD20EZRX which is on Amazon for 81 bucks. Will the WD red WD20efrx for 99 bucks work and if so is it worth the extra 18 bucks. thanks Steve


I purchased this one:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00IMPO5N8/ref=pe_385040_121528360_TE_dp_1

That is the 3T version, there is a 2T version also. I just installed this on my new HR44 and it worked with no problems. I did need to initialize it on my PC first.


----------



## Drew2k

hasan said:


> Hi Drew, long time no see! Yes that's certainly true. When I originally did the calc, there was no padding...HR20-700 early...., now of course, it could add up but I'm fairly certain that 2 TB will deliver 400-450 hours, auto-padding aside, and content differences (which are clearly there), will probably wash out with a decent sample size. I do think the per/hour might be closer to the 4 g/hr than 5 for some people. Nice to see you again.


Thanks! That extra hour due to padding likely won't change your calculation, but this really great feature is so rarely mentioined I thought I'd bring it up in case anyone else wanted to take a stab using their own Plahlist recordings.


----------



## Rich

Sam-SS said:


> Ok, Ritch, I now fully agree with you as to WD20EURS drives not working well as externals on DirecTV DVRs.
> 
> I have fought problems with my HR-24 DVR with one of these for months. What was happening is that with the drive installed,
> the sound and vidio would skip in and out at times. Also, when perusing theough the guide, it would hang at times and take some
> time to free up. I also tried a WD15EURS and tried a Max 5 and a NexStar 3 enclosuires in various combinations but no joy.
> This also affected playback of recorded material. I eventually discovered that this unit worked perfectly with the internal drive.
> 
> So, I ordered a WD20EZRX 2tb drive and installed it in the same old Max 5 and it has worked perfectly ever since.
> 
> Let me also mention that with the EURS drive installed, the problems also affected the LIST on a second HR-24 DVR hooked up
> through Whole-Home as well as it would skip when playing stuff off of the troublesome drive. Once the new drive was installed
> on the first DVR, the problems on the second DVR went away.
> 
> I realize that some folks have had no problems with the EURS drives but I thought I would report that I clearly did.
> 
> Once again, thanks for the tips, Rich.
> 
> ...>>Sam


Always nice to see that someone agrees with me. Yeah, I'm sure a lot of them work well, but I'm not into taking chances like that.

Thanx,

Rich


----------



## Rich

i49mobile said:


> I am getting a Hr44 on Friday. I currently have a Hr20-700 in a MX-1 with a WD20EURS that I plan on keeping. What 2TB drive should I buy. I read the postings. I know lot of you like the WD20EZRX which is on Amazon for 81 bucks. Will the WD red WD20efrx for 99 bucks work and if so is it worth the extra 18 bucks. thanks Steve


Why gamble? We know the EZRX is a dependable HDD.

Rich


----------



## Folin

fudpucker said:


> I purchased this one:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00IMPO5N8/ref=pe_385040_121528360_TE_dp_1"]http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00IMPO5N8/ref=pe_385040_121528360_TE_dp_1
> That is the 3T version, there is a 2T version also. I just installed this on my new HR44 and it worked with no problems. I did need to initialize it on my PC first.





Rich said:


> Why gamble? We know the EZRX is a dependable HDD.
> 
> Rich


I'm using that same PURX 3TB HDD and zero issues so far. No audio dropouts, etc. Also had to initialize on my PC first.

I didn't consider it a gamble Rich.

Correction: 32 HD surveillance streams is one of the primary uses for the PURX model...seemed pretty appropriate for 5 on the Genie. Also low power consumption/lower heat unit.


----------



## drh

At the risk of irritating the forum gods, I will cross post this question here, as many of you did not see it where in it's own thread.

Anyone try a wd black enterprise series drive, perhaps a wd2000fyyz in a raid 1 configuration in a sans digital mr2ut+ esata enclosure? 
I presently have two mr2ut enclosures 1 with 2 wd red 3 tb efrx drives in raid1. Am now getting lots of delays from the Hr34 series dvr. Drives now running about 50% full. Wd says raid should use enterprise spec drives because of error correction circuit in lesser series drives cause delays. Was thinking that this may be the reason I am experiencing occasional delays. 

Question 2: not having swapped out any drives in the mr2ut enclosures, with success, what is the procedure to retain the current programming? I think the enclosures are "hot swappable" and that I just take one drive out, while the system is up and running, and put in a new drive. Wait for it to populate and replace the second original drive the same way. Is this correct? The last time I tried replacing a suspecious drive with a new one, I ended up loosing everything. But I did power down the system before I swapped out one drive.


----------



## Rich

Time for _*RunnerFL*_ to pop up with the correct answer.

Rich


----------



## P Smith

drh said:


> At the risk of irritating the forum gods, I will cross post this question here, as many of you did not see it where in it's own thread.
> 
> Anyone try a wd black enterprise series drive, perhaps a wd2000fyyz in a raid 1 configuration in a sans digital mr2ut+ esata enclosure?
> I presently have two mr2ut enclosures 1 with 2 wd red 3 tb efrx drives in raid1. Am now getting lots of delays from the Hr34 series dvr. Drives now running about 50% full. Wd says raid should use enterprise spec drives because of error correction circuit in lesser series drives cause delays. Was thinking that this may be the reason I am experiencing occasional delays.
> 
> Question 2: not having swapped out any drives in the mr2ut enclosures, with success, what is the procedure to retain the current programming? I think the enclosures are "hot swappable" and that I just take one drive out, while the system is up and running, and put in a new drive. Wait for it to populate and replace the second original drive the same way. Is this correct? The last time I tried replacing a suspecious drive with a new one, I ended up loosing everything. But I did power down the system before I swapped out one drive.


to q#1: all the new variants of RAID enclosures and drives will never would be covered - you are a pioneer and on your own; I would test your RAID on PC, measures by IOmeter throughput, test recovery, etc
to q#2: if internal RAID controller is working, then it wouldn't be matter when you replace failed HDD or imitating the problem, same for powering off/on


----------



## Rich

Next?

Rich


----------



## RunnerFL

Rich said:


> Time for _*RunnerFL*_ to pop up with the correct answer.
> 
> Rich


I already answered in his other thread.


----------



## Rich

RunnerFL said:


> I already answered in his other thread.


Ah, no disputes with Mr. Smith? Not that I'm trying to stir the pot or anything like that.... :rolling:

Rich


----------



## P Smith

yeah, yeah ...


----------



## Rich

P Smith said:


> yeah, yeah ...


Well, I know how tight the two of you are....

Rich


----------



## P Smith

my time in server rooms is in a past ...


----------



## RunnerFL

P Smith said:


> my time in server rooms is in a past ...


Same here, I just run them now. I have people that actually go into them for me.


----------



## P Smith

I'm glad I don't need to go inside and do not manage those ppl ... my life is much better when I'm on my own schedule and tasks !


----------



## illinileo

Finally upgrading this week from our HR20-700. I have been using an ESATA for several years (MX-1 and a WD green) with no issues. I've read through several pages of this thread and have a few questions about what to use for the ESATA on the HR44

1. Drives: I've read posts about each of these drives: WD Green WD30EZRX (NOT UERS), WD Purple WD30PURX, and WD Red/Red Pro WD3001FFSX/WD30EFRX. Which of these is the most recommended?
2. Enclosure: Antec MX-1 or the Thermaltake Max5

Thanks!


----------



## fudpucker

illinileo said:


> Finally upgrading this week from our HR20-700. I have been using an ESATA for several years (MX-1 and a WD green) with no issues. I've read through several pages of this thread and have a few questions about what to use for the ESATA on the HR44
> 
> 1. Drives: I've read posts about each of these drives: WD Green WD30EZRX (NOT UERS), WD Purple WD30PURX, and WD Red/Red Pro WD3001FFSX/WD30EFRX. Which of these is the most recommended?
> 2. Enclosure: Antec MX-1 or the Thermaltake Max5
> 
> Thanks!


I can't tell you "best" but I just hooked up a WD Purple, 3T, with the Thermaltake Max5, with the HR44, and it works great and took about two minutes to connect it and get it running (once I initialized the drive on my PC.)


----------



## inkahauts

Im using a red drive from wd 4tb and its been great so far


----------



## hasan

Rich said:


> Why gamble? We know the EZRX is a dependable HDD.
> 
> Rich


Gamble indeed, mine WD20EURX may now be acting up. It worked fine since March 13 in a Max5 Enclosure. Now, I either have a memory leak or it's the drive. I'm getting audio and video breakup that are currently cured by a restart/clearmybox on the HR44-700. I can't say for sure it is the drive, as I restarted 72 hours ago and all is fine, but had many corrupted recordings. Live was fine.Things look fine for now, but if it happens again soon, I have an EZRX in my wishlist.

Excerpt describing the problem from another post:

This problem started about a week ago. I first noticed it on a recording of Mike and Mike in the Morning (209). It started as a slight stutter, very, very slight that would come and go every 20 or 30 seconds or so. As time progressed, (15 minutes or so), I began to get full audio breakup...missing syllables along with pixellation of the video, but not of the type caused by loss of signal. I would sometimes see an entire face go "negative", along with a second long hole in the audio. The problem continued throughout the recording. It was not present "live".

I then saw it on two different network recorded shows, USA and TNT. I then saw it on a movie, wherein it lasted for 30 minutes off and on, and then disappeared for the remainder of the movie.

Then it began happening on most recordings,but not all. In all cases it would become progressively worse over time, and then (in the same recording), suddenly cure itself. It would then show up on other recordings of other shows (but not all recordings).

Hoping it wasn't a failing external drive (that is only a few months old), I did a CLEARMYBOX (which had not been done in several months). The problem was solved (no disk errors on reboot), the old recordings are still pixellated video with audio holes, but all new recordings since the clearmybox have been perfect for about 36 hours. (Now about 72 hours)

So what do you think, Rich, should I order the other drive? !rolling


----------



## P Smith

why guessing ? why call a shaman ? 

just get MHDD, find any PC with SATA port and recognizable SATA chip by MHDD and run it; get SMART, run Scan+Remap and SMART again
post here,
that would be real assessment, duh !


----------



## mocarob

Hasan, I saw issues like you describe today using a WD20 EZRX with Thermaltake BlacX dock. Recordings were breaking up. Live was ok.
I switched to a different enclosure and everything is working good again. I'll report back if the issue returns.


----------



## mocarob

mocarob said:


> Hasan, I had issues like you describe today using a WD20 EZRX with Thermaltake BlacX dock. Recordings were breaking up. Live was ok.
> I switched to a different enclosure and recordings are good again. I'll report back if the issue returns.


----------



## hasan

mocarob said:


> Hasan, I saw issues like you describe today using a WD20 EZRX with Thermaltake BlacX dock. Recordings were breaking up. Live was ok.
> I switched to a different enclosure and everything is working good again. I'll report back if the issue returns.


Now, that is VERY interesting, as I'm using the Max5 Enclosure by the same company. I tell you what, since you are using the EZRX and I'm using the EURX and we have had some similar issues, I'm going to keep leaning toward the firmware issue for now. The drive is only 5 months old or so, and I have not seen another instance of the problem since dong a "CLEARMYBOX" over 72 hours ago (and I do a LOT of recording). Since both the BlacX dock and Max5 enclosure are in wide use by forum members, what are the chances that the problem is with the enclosure and we are the only two to experience it and with two different models?

If the problem is cleared by a periodic restart of the DVR, then it strongly points toward a memory leak in the firmware.

When you switched to a different enclosure, you had to restart the box. Restarting the box and not changing the drive or enclosure solved the problem here. Did you try a "clearmybox" with the old enclosure? BTW I'm using the BlackX dock on an HR24-200 and have had no problems.

At this point, I'll watch carefully for an early reappearance of the issue and do an immediate clearmybox keyword search and see if I get the problem to go away ...that would further lead one to think it is a memory leak and not a drive or enclosure problem. If it is a drive problem, it should come back soon and become more of an issue in both frequency and intensity. (failing drive). If it is a compatibility issue, it could stay the same in frequency and intensity.

Thanks so much for your post, it has added considerably to my early attempts to analyze the problem. If I get more info, i'll post here, so you can determine what is going with your end as well. Let me know if anything new pops up.


----------



## Rich

hasan said:


> Gamble indeed, mine WD20EURX may now be acting up. It worked fine since March 13 in a Max5 Enclosure. Now, I either have a memory leak or it's the drive. I'm getting audio and video breakup that are currently cured by a restart/clearmybox on the HR44-700. I can't say for sure it is the drive, as I restarted 72 hours ago and all is fine, but had many corrupted recordings. Live was fine.Things look fine for now, but if it happens again soon, I have an EZRX in my wishlist.
> 
> Excerpt describing the problem from another post:
> 
> This problem started about a week ago. I first noticed it on a recording of Mike and Mike in the Morning (209). It started as a slight stutter, very, very slight that would come and go every 20 or 30 seconds or so. As time progressed, (15 minutes or so), I began to get full audio breakup...missing syllables along with pixellation of the video, but not of the type caused by loss of signal. I would sometimes see an entire face go "negative", along with a second long hole in the audio. The problem continued throughout the recording. It was not present "live".
> 
> I then saw it on two different network recorded shows, USA and TNT. I then saw it on a movie, wherein it lasted for 30 minutes off and on, and then disappeared for the remainder of the movie.
> 
> Then it began happening on most recordings,but not all. In all cases it would become progressively worse over time, and then (in the same recording), suddenly cure itself. It would then show up on other recordings of other shows (but not all recordings).
> 
> Hoping it wasn't a failing external drive (that is only a few months old), I did a CLEARMYBOX (which had not been done in several months). The problem was solved (no disk errors on reboot), the old recordings are still pixellated video with audio holes, but all new recordings since the clearmybox have been perfect for about 36 hours. (Now about 72 hours)
> 
> _*So what do you think, Rich, should I order the other drive? *_ !rolling


Yup, and the EURS is still under warranty so you'll at least get a replacement for it.

But I see that's on a 44-700 and I have no experience with 44s. I dunno, it almost sounds like it's not an HDD problem, I don't see any lockups in your post and that's usually a firm symptom of a bad HDD. Might be the 44. Won't cost you anything to get a replacement from WD and it might not be an EURS. Then you'll know for sure.

Rich


----------



## Rich

mocarob said:


> Hasan, I saw issues like you describe today using a WD20 EZRX with Thermaltake BlacX dock. Recordings were breaking up. Live was ok.
> I switched to a different enclosure and everything is working good again. I'll report back if the issue returns.


You're right, I have only one external drive left and I've kinda stopped thinking about them. It does sound like a bad external device. They are the weakest links in the HR chain.

Rich


----------



## mocarob

I did not 'clearmybox' after changing enclosures. Just a reboot. And to make everybody cringe, it's an old Cavalry enclosure.
I've been using the Cavalry for years.. It use to have a WD drive in it that failed yrs ago. I've probably recorded 15hrs of programming since the switch. no issues..


----------



## Rich

hasan said:


> Now, that is VERY interesting, as I'm using the Max5 Enclosure by the same company. I tell you what, since you are using the EZRX and I'm using the EURX and we have had some similar issues, I'm going to keep leaning toward the firmware issue for now. The drive is only 5 months old or so, and I have not seen another instance of the problem since dong a "CLEARMYBOX" over 72 hours ago (and I do a LOT of recording). Since both the BlacX dock and Max5 enclosure are in wide use by forum members, what are the chances that the problem is with the enclosure and we are the only two to experience it and with two different models?
> 
> If the problem is cleared by a periodic restart of the DVR, then it strongly points toward a memory leak in the firmware.
> 
> When you switched to a different enclosure, you had to restart the box. Restarting the box and not changing the drive or enclosure solved the problem here. Did you try a "clearmybox" with the old enclosure? BTW I'm using the BlackX dock on an HR24-200 and have had no problems.
> 
> At this point, I'll watch carefully for an early reappearance of the issue and do an immediate clearmybox keyword search and see if I get the problem to go away ...that would further lead one to think it is a memory leak and not a drive or enclosure problem. If it is a drive problem, it should come back soon and become more of an issue in both frequency and intensity. (failing drive). If it is a compatibility issue, it could stay the same in frequency and intensity.
> 
> Thanks so much for your post, it has added considerably to my early attempts to analyze the problem. If I get more info, i'll post here, so you can determine what is going with your end as well. Let me know if anything new pops up.


Yeah, I should have thought of the external device. I just threw a bunch of bad TT docks out a few weeks ago. Cheap is cheap. The thing about the TT docks is they either work or they don't. You know right away if the device is shot. I don't remember seeing any posts about problems with the enclosure you're using, but I've pretty much written TT off as a reliable external device provider. They even make you pay the postage to return the damaged devices.

Rather interesting problem you have. I hope it's just the external device. Really didn't sound like an HDD problem when I read your post. I'm sure the great majority of the EURS drives work properly. I just wouldn't buy one with my luck.

Rich


----------



## hasan

I still have the original TT BlacX dock you told me about years ago...it's on a 2 TB drive on the HR24. I have never used the power switch, other than the first time to turn it on. I just pull the power plug if it needs to be turned off for some reason. I just checked, Feb 2010 for the TT dock. The Max5 Enclosure I got in Feb 2014 and put it on the HR44..

The problem has not shown up again since the clearmybox restart, but now, of course, I'm paranoid, imagining all sorts of things that aren't there. I've got to look back now and see when I first did the clearmybox that solved (at least temporarily) the problem. Yes is was on the 19th of Feb, early, so 72 hours. I'll see if it makes it a week, and if so, will do another clearmybox, as I don't want to miss something like a NCAA or NFL game by having the issue sneak up on me.


----------



## nsolot

Aloha! It's been a long time. Nice to see some familar names still hangin around these parts. :up:

I'm also seeing some stutter on my HR24 with WD20EVDS & BlakX dock. The external setup is from Jan 2012, so my first thought is the HDD is starting to go bad. I have a nearly idential setup in another room, the difference is a WD20EARX HDD, also circa Jan 2012. Now that I see similar reports, I wonder if it's a software issue....

Anyway, I'll probably swap out the external systems as they are nearing 3 year birthday soon with 2TB Purple HDDs and the new Max5. Yes, I did read back about 10 pages and that looks like a nice setup. For $41, I'm thinking about getting a Sabrent USB 3.0 to SATA Dual Bay External Hard Drive Docking Station for 2.5 or 3.5in HDD, SSD with Hard Drive Duplicator/Cloner Function [4TB Support] (EC-HDD2). In the past, I'd hook the drives up to a spare PC and clone drives with software, but these days time is short, and $41 bucks for a cloner? Dayum!

I'm more interetsed is a stable setup than saving every last cent. With wife and 2 kids (now 6 & 9 YO) I get enough grey hair. Any additional advice/suggestions are most appreciated....


----------



## P Smith

same advice - see post#3016


----------



## fudpucker

I assume there's no way to clone a drive for use on the Genie, correct? I.e. if for some reason you thought you might be having some sporadic issues with a drive but didn't want to lose all the programming, a way to copy all the programs onto a new drive. My assumption is there is not a way, for the obvious copy protection reasons, but sometimes I can be surprised.


----------



## peds48

fudpucker said:


> I assume there's no way to clone a drive for use on the Genie, correct? I.e. if for some reason you thought you might be having some sporadic issues with a drive but didn't want to lose all the programming, a way to copy all the programs onto a new drive. My assumption is there is not a way, for the obvious copy protection reasons, but sometimes I can be surprised.


you can clone a drive to be used with the same DVR that made the original copy but you can't clobe a drive to be used in another DVR

Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## RunnerFL

fudpucker said:


> I assume there's no way to clone a drive for use on the Genie, correct? I.e. if for some reason you thought you might be having some sporadic issues with a drive but didn't want to lose all the programming, a way to copy all the programs onto a new drive. My assumption is there is not a way, for the obvious copy protection reasons, but sometimes I can be surprised.


You can clone it but if your recordings have issues on the current drive they'll most likely have issues on the cloned drive so you won't be able to rule the drive out as the issue.


----------



## Rich

nsolot said:


> Aloha! It's been a long time. Nice to see some familar names still hangin around these parts. :up:
> 
> I'm also seeing some stutter on my HR24 with WD20EVDS & BlakX dock. The external setup is from Jan 2012, so my first thought is the HDD is starting to go bad. I have a nearly idential setup in another room, the difference is a WD20EARX HDD, also circa Jan 2012. Now that I see similar reports, I wonder if it's a software issue....
> 
> Anyway, I'll probably swap out the external systems as they are nearing 3 year birthday soon with 2TB Purple HDDs and the new Max5. Yes, I did read back about 10 pages and that looks like a nice setup. For $41, I'm thinking about getting a Sabrent USB 3.0 to SATA Dual Bay External Hard Drive Docking Station for 2.5 or 3.5in HDD, SSD with Hard Drive Duplicator/Cloner Function [4TB Support] (EC-HDD2). In the past, I'd hook the drives up to a spare PC and clone drives with software, but these days time is short, and $41 bucks for a cloner? Dayum!
> 
> I'm more interetsed is a stable setup than saving every last cent. With wife and 2 kids (now 6 & 9 YO) I get enough grey hair. Any additional advice/suggestions are most appreciated....


I'd be looking at the external device. No matter what you read about bad HDDs, it's not a frequent thing. I would suspect the external device before the HDD itself. If you get 2-3 years out of an external device you've been lucky. I have had one HDD fail in the last few years. One. And I run 12 HRs constantly. Just my experience here, I realize that HDDs do fail more frequently in various usages, but the HDDs in my HRs just keep running. Some of them date back to 2008 (just a guess) or whenever the 2TB drives became cheap enough to buy.

Rich


----------



## peds48

Rich said:


> I'd be looking at the external device. No matter what you read about bad HDDs, it's not a frequent thing. I would suspect the external device before the HDD itself. If you get 2-3 years out of an external device you've been lucky. I have had one HDD fail in the last few years. One. And I run 12 HRs constantly. Just my experience here, I realize that HDDs do fail more frequently in various usages, but the HDDs in my HRs just keep running. Some of them date back to 2008 (just a guess) or whenever the 2TB drives became cheap enough to buy.
> 
> Rich


Not until it happens to you. There are thousands of hard drives failures every day


----------



## hasan

peds48 said:


> Not until it happens to you. There are thousands of hard drives failures every day


I think Rich meant that once you have a decent drive and it has a good environment, it will run a long time. I've had 7 machines running (not DVRs) for at least 8 years. In all that time, I have replaced 3 hard drives. All the rest are still running or were last year, when I upgraded all my machines to Win7 and/or Linux Ubuntu. More than half of those machines run 24/7, and all are on UPS's. As far as DVRs go, I've had two drives fail from 3 machines since 2007. I would consider two failures in 7 years of 24/7 operation to be "not a frequent thing", and I think that is what Rich was saying. If so, he is right, or the two of us have just been lucky.

Drives are certain to fail, just not that often...in fact, read the MTBF specs...they last a long time when properly cared for.


----------



## hasan

Rich said:


> I'd be looking at the external device. No matter what you read about bad HDDs, it's not a frequent thing. I would suspect the external device before the HDD itself. If you get 2-3 years out of an external device you've been lucky. I have had one HDD fail in the last few years. One. And I run 12 HRs constantly. Just my experience here, I realize that HDDs do fail more frequently in various usages, but the HDDs in my HRs just keep running. Some of them date back to 2008 (just a guess) or whenever the 2TB drives became cheap enough to buy.
> 
> Rich


Yes, I'm thinking I see about 4 years of useful service on most drives that are on 24/7 and a few have lasted 6 going on 7. Now that I have a bit by bit drive duplicator dock, I plan on changing out drives at about 3 years to avoid problems. Hopefully, I'll get that out of the enclosures. I already have 4 years on the BlacX dock...it's been on an HR20-700 and now the HR24-200. The HR44-700 has the Max5 enclosure on it, and that just since last February.

BTW, going on 5 days since I did a CLEARMYBOX on the stuttering playback (video and audio) HR44-700. I think it's safe to say that it was the box (firmware/memory leak or some such). If it were a failing drive, it would have shown back up by now, I would think. Here's hoping! :joy:


----------



## hdtvluvr

So, what happens when the power goes out and the UPS dies (yes I have a UPS on each DVR and 1 that covers the SWiM, internet modem and router). 
When power comes back on, what makes the DVR see the External drive instead of the internal since the external and dvr turns on at the same time? Or do you have to manually turn on the external, wait for it to spin up and then turn on the DVR?

Secondly, I see that the Max5 enclosure and the TT Dock are being recommended but I also see that the switches go bad in the docks. Is this because users turn them on and off? If one was to stay on 24/7 which would be best - enclosure or dock?


----------



## peds48

hasan said:


> I think Rich meant that once you have a decent drive and it has a good environment, it will run a long time. I've had 7 machines running (not DVRs) for at least 8 years. In all that time, I have replaced 3 hard drives. All the rest are still running or were last year, when I upgraded all my machines to Win7 and/or Linux Ubuntu. More than half of those machines run 24/7, and all are on UPS's. As far as DVRs go, I've had two drives fail from 3 machines since 2007. I would consider two failures in 7 years of 24/7 operation to be "not a frequent thing", and I think that is what Rich was saying. If so, he is right, or the two of us have just been lucky.
> 
> Drives are certain to fail, just not that often...in fact, read the MTBF specs...they last a long time when properly cared for.


Yep, consider yourself lucky. I guess I can call myself lucky as well, because I have lost 3 drives in the last 3 years and all of them have been covered by the manufacturers warranty. This time I went with a RAID enclosure so I don't have to go to the troubles to fish the files out of the hard drive. I have lost 2 DVRs due to hard drives as well


----------



## nsolot

hasan said:


> Yes, I'm thinking I see about 4 years of useful service on most drives that are on 24/7 and a few have lasted 6 going on 7. Now that I have a bit by bit drive duplicator dock, I plan on changing out drives at about 3 years to avoid problems. Hopefully, I'll get that out of the enclosures. I already have 4 years on the BlacX dock...it's been on an HR20-700 and now the HR24-200. The HR44-700 has the Max5 enclosure on it, and that just since last February.
> 
> BTW, going on 5 days since I did a CLEARMYBOX on the stuttering playback (video and audio) HR44-700. I think it's safe to say that it was the box (firmware/memory leak or some such). If it were a failing drive, it would have shown back up by now, I would think. Here's hoping! :joy:


That's my thinking also, and shared the same thoughts 2-3 years ago on this board... to much debate. My thinking is that DVR usage with he constant recording of the current channel places a lot more wear & tear on the drive compared to regular desktop PC use. At about the 3 year mark, I'll swap out the drives on the DVR's next week. This week I swapped out the drives on my PC, which were date marked by WD 2010. HDDs have moving parts, servos, motors, bearings, etc. Those parts will fail. Maybe 3 years, maybe 10 years. I only know one thing.... it never happens at a good time.


----------



## hasan

hdtvluvr said:


> So, what happens when the power goes out and the UPS dies (yes I have a UPS on each DVR and 1 that covers the SWiM, internet modem and router).
> When power comes back on, what makes the DVR see the External drive instead of the internal since the external and dvr turns on at the same time? Or do you have to manually turn on the external, wait for it to spin up and then turn on the DVR?
> 
> Secondly, I see that the Max5 enclosure and the TT Dock are being recommended but I also see that the switches go bad in the docks. Is this because users turn them on and off? If one was to stay on 24/7 which would be best - enclosure or dock?


I have both and have not had a problem with either, although I have had the Max5 only since Feb 2014. If I had it to do over, I would get the Max5. The dock is convenient,but you don't change drives frequently, and the Max5 is very, very easy to assemble and it has a good cooling fan. The dock has no cooling fan, but is open to the air, so putting a fan on it would be easy (although, I never have). When I need a replacement, I'm getting a Max5, in fact, when I can get it together, i'm going to order a Max5 and 2 TB WD Purple as a spare setup.

When the firmware works properly, it autodetects the presence of the external drive. Every so often when I have rebooted some of the boxes, they fail to detect. In that case I pull the power plug on the dock and then shut down the box, pull it's power. Then with both things powered off, turn on the power to the external drive, wait 30 seconds, power up the dvr and it has always detected the external drive.

Lately, I have only had the HR24 fail to detect the drive/dock once, and the HR44-700 has never failed to detect the Max5/drive. I'd go with the Max5.


----------



## hasan

peds48 said:


> Yep, consider yourself lucky. I guess I can call myself lucky as well, because I have lost 3 drives in the last 3 years and all of them have been covered by the manufacturers warranty. This time I went with a RAID enclosure so I don't have to go to the troubles to fish the files out of the hard drive. I have lost 2 DVRs due to hard drives as well


Yes, Rich, but in your case that's 3 drives out of how many boxes? For me, since I had one failure in 4 years, I figure that is long enough and to be safe, do a replacement every 3 three years on these boxes (external drive).

Since our sample size is so very small, I wouldn't make any generalizations, to be sure! My Acer laptop drive failed in 45 days! The drive I replaced it with at the recommendation of my local PC guru, has been running flawlessly for 2 or 3 years. (and has Smart technology to warn me, as well).

At first, with these boxes, it was find a drive and enclosure/dock that worked at all. Then it was endurance, now it may be some sort of subtle compatibility issue that doesn't show its head right away.

It's never easy.


----------



## hdtvluvr

hasan said:


> I have both and have not had a problem with either, although I have had the Max5 only since Feb 2014. If I had it to do over, I would get the Max5. The dock is convenient,but you don't change drives frequently, and the Max5 is very, very easy to assemble and it has a good cooling fan. The dock has no cooling fan, but is open to the air, so putting a fan on it would be easy (although, I never have). When I need a replacement, I'm getting a Max5, in fact, when I can get it together, i'm going to order a Max5 and 2 TB WD Purple as a spare setup.
> 
> When the firmware works properly, it autodetects the presence of the external drive. Every so often when I have rebooted some of the boxes, they fail to detect. In that case I pull the power plug on the dock and then shut down the box, pull it's power. Then with both things powered off, turn on the power to the external drive, wait 30 seconds, power up the dvr and it has always detected the external drive.
> 
> Lately, I have only had the HR24 fail to detect the drive/dock once, and the HR44-700 has never failed to detect the Max5/drive. I'd go with the Max5.


Thanks! Now to decide on 2, 3 or 4 TB


----------



## RunnerFL

hdtvluvr said:


> So, what happens when the power goes out and the UPS dies (yes I have a UPS on each DVR and 1 that covers the SWiM, internet modem and router).
> When power comes back on, what makes the DVR see the External drive instead of the internal since the external and dvr turns on at the same time? Or do you have to manually turn on the external, wait for it to spin up and then turn on the DVR?
> 
> Secondly, I see that the Max5 enclosure and the TT Dock are being recommended but I also see that the switches go bad in the docks. Is this because users turn them on and off? If one was to stay on 24/7 which would be best - enclosure or dock?


As long as the external drive powers up first after the power outage your DVR will see the external as the primary drive.

If you're using the TT Dock for your DVR there's no reason to use the power switch at all. You won't be turning it on and off all the time.


----------



## Rich

peds48 said:


> Not until it happens to you. There are thousands of hard drives failures every day


Awesome, Dude!


----------



## Rich

hasan said:


> I think Rich meant that once you have a decent drive and it has a good environment, it will run a long time. I've had 7 machines running (not DVRs) for at least 8 years. In all that time, I have replaced 3 hard drives. All the rest are still running or were last year, when I upgraded all my machines to Win7 and/or Linux Ubuntu. More than half of those machines run 24/7, and all are on UPS's. As far as DVRs go, I've had two drives fail from 3 machines since 2007. I would consider two failures in 7 years of 24/7 operation to be "not a frequent thing", and I think that is what Rich was saying. If so, he is right, or the two of us have just been lucky.
> 
> Drives are certain to fail, just not that often...in fact, read the MTBF specs...they last a long time when properly cared for.


One thing I've never been is lucky. Aside from that, good post!

Rich


----------



## Rich

hasan said:


> Yes, I'm thinking I see about 4 years of useful service on most drives that are on 24/7 and a few have lasted 6 going on 7. Now that I have a bit by bit drive duplicator dock, I plan on changing out drives at about 3 years to avoid problems. Hopefully, I'll get that out of the enclosures. I already have 4 years on the BlacX dock...it's been on an HR20-700 and now the HR24-200. The HR44-700 has the Max5 enclosure on it, and that just since last February.
> 
> BTW, going on 5 days since I did a CLEARMYBOX on the stuttering playback (video and audio) HR44-700. I think it's safe to say that it was the box (firmware/memory leak or some such). If it were a failing drive, it would have shown back up by now, I would think. Here's hoping! :joy:


Being the pessimist that I am, I wouldn't be surprised to see it surface again. For your sake I hope it doesn't, but if it was my equipment I know it would.

Rich


----------



## Rich

hdtvluvr said:


> So, what happens when the power goes out and the UPS dies (yes I have a UPS on each DVR and 1 that covers the SWiM, internet modem and router).
> When power comes back on, what makes the DVR see the External drive instead of the internal since the external and dvr turns on at the same time? Or do you have to manually turn on the external, wait for it to spin up and then turn on the DVR?
> 
> Secondly, I see that the Max5 enclosure and the TT Dock are being recommended but I also see that the switches go bad in the docks. Is this because users turn them on and off? If one was to stay on 24/7 which would be best - enclosure or dock?


In my case, the UPS devices only come on for a second or so if the power goes out. I have a whole home generator that runs on natural gas.

When the power comes back on in an ordinary home, the HR and external device should connect properly. Should. You still have to check them.

I know the on/off switches on the TT docks will fail if used a lot. In most cases. So I never touch them once I have them running. I just pull the cord on them.

Rich


----------



## Rich

nsolot said:


> That's my thinking also, and shared the same thoughts 2-3 years ago on this board... to much debate. My thinking is that DVR usage with he constant recording of the current channel places a lot more wear & tear on the drive compared to regular desktop PC use. At about the 3 year mark, I'll swap out the drives on the DVR's next week. This week I swapped out the drives on my PC, which were date marked by WD 2010. HDDs have moving parts, servos, motors, bearings, etc. Those parts will fail. Maybe 3 years, maybe 10 years. I only know one thing.... _*it never happens at a good time.*_


That's why I have so many HRs. I don't archive any content, but I do back up shows several times on various HRs. If an HR or a hard drive go, I haven't really lost anything.

Rich


----------



## Rich

hasan said:


> Yes, Rich, but in your case that's 3 drives out of how many boxes? For me, since I had one failure in 4 years, I figure that is long enough and to be safe, do a replacement every 3 three years on these boxes (external drive).
> 
> Since our sample size is so very small, I wouldn't make any generalizations, to be sure! My Acer laptop drive failed in 45 days! The drive I replaced it with at the recommendation of my local PC guru, has been running flawlessly for 2 or 3 years. (and has Smart technology to warn me, as well).
> 
> At first, with these boxes, it was find a drive and enclosure/dock that worked at all. Then it was endurance, now it may be some sort of subtle compatibility issue that doesn't show its head right away.
> 
> It's never easy.


That's why I like owning my HRs and putting large internals in them. I can't remember the last time an internally installed large HDD died on me. I know it was a Seagate Barracuda, 1TB, in a 20-700, but I really don't remember how long ago that was. I know it was quite a while ago. With my setup, it's pretty simple to just wait until something fails to replace it. If I just had 3 or 4 HRs I'd take a different approach.

Rich


----------



## Rich

hdtvluvr said:


> Thanks! Now to decide on 2, 3 or 4 TB


Try to imagine how much content you're really gonna put on one unit and then make sure you buy an HDD that will accommodate that much and buy an HDD that will allow you to run at about 3 quarters full.

Rich


----------



## RunnerFL

Rich said:


> In my case, the UPS devices only come on for a second or so if the power goes out. I have a whole home generator that runs on natural gas.


I would LOVE to have one of those generators or run 100% solar. Better yet, 125% solar so I can backfeed that 25% and make the power company pay me.


----------



## RunnerFL

Rich said:


> Try to imagine how much content you're really gonna put on one unit and then make sure you buy an HDD that will accommodate that much and buy an HDD that will allow you to run at about 3 quarters full.
> 
> Rich


These days I always go with something that gives me 1TB more than I need.


----------



## fudpucker

RunnerFL said:


> These days I always go with something that gives me 1TB more than I need.


Yep. I have never, for my computer or DVRs, looked back and said "Man, I wish I had purchased a smaller drive!"


----------



## Rich

RunnerFL said:


> I would LOVE to have one of those generators or run 100% solar. Better yet, 125% solar so I can backfeed that 25% and make the power company pay me.


I looked into solar panels for my roof. Six years to see any monetary gains. I declined.

About the natural gas gennies: They've dropped dramatically in price since I had mine installed. I was at a place the other day that had a bunch of 14KW gennies (that's what I have) and they were selling them, installed, for $6900. I paid $8400 for mine and, at the time, that was half the price other companies wanted for them. Now that Sandy is only a memory for anyone not living in NJ or NY, the demand has diminished and the prices have dropped.

Gives me a warm, fuzzy feeling each Wednesday when the gennie kicks on for ~ 15 minutes. My wife really wanted it, too.

Rich


----------



## lenbo

got a new WDpurple 2tb and blacX today to go with my new hr44-700. How do I"activate"the hard drive ? With my PC ? Thanks


----------



## bpratt

lenbo said:


> got a new WDpurple 2tb and blacX today to go with my new hr44-700. How do I"activate"the hard drive ? With my PC ? Thanks


Just connect it to your DVR. Up to 2tb disks don't need to be connected to a PC to be initialized, only 3tb and larger.


----------



## hasan

lenbo said:


> got a new WDpurple 2tb and blacX today to go with my new hr44-700. How do I"activate"the hard drive ? With my PC ? Thanks


How did you make out? My experience is the same as bpratt, up to 2 TB will autoformat just fine with the HR44-700 (which is what I have). I'm using the Max5 enclosure and a different drive that is months old. I'm thinking of ordering one of the purple 2 TB like you got as a spare, with another Max5. That way I can take the older one and put it on a computer, and use the new one on the HR44-700. I'll clone the drive first, so I won't lose any programming.


----------



## nsolot

Quick report on my upgrade to WD 2TB Purple Drives and TT Max 5 enclosures. All systems are happy, and the Max 5 I think is a better solution than the old TT bay, with no fan or dust protection. Sure looks nicer.

The Sabrent dual bay clone device worked great, once I figured out how to use it. The instruction booklet is terrible. The trick is to press and hold the "copy" button immediately after you power up the drive. This old-timer is accustomed to allowing drives 10-15 seconds to power up and get up to speed before attempting tasks.


----------



## TomCat

Time for a new HDD.

I mostly have EURS drives.

It seems like the drive of the moment, according to WD, is the EZRX. Has this drive proven to be an OK drive?

It does not seem to be an AV drive.

Are we good with 3 TB drives yet? 4?


----------



## P Smith

Any result of current execution of a search for the model on the site?
There are a lot of posts what model support max 2 TB drives,what is 12 TB. Any chance to obtain the info?


----------



## Rich

TomCat said:


> Time for a new HDD.
> 
> I mostly have EURS drives.
> 
> It seems like the drive of the moment, according to WD, is the_* EZRX. Has this drive proven to be an OK drive?*_
> 
> It does not seem to be an AV drive.
> 
> Are we good with 3 TB drives yet? 4?


They've been fine in my owned HRs and on my leased 24-100. All 2TB drives.

Rich


----------



## inkahauts

TomCat said:


> Time for a new HDD.
> 
> I mostly have EURS drives.
> 
> It seems like the drive of the moment, according to WD, is the EZRX. Has this drive proven to be an OK drive?
> 
> It does not seem to be an AV drive.
> 
> Are we good with 3 TB drives yet? 4?


Regular two tuner DVRs are stuck at 2tb drives. Genies however, go big... At least 12, maybe 16 or 18. Not completely sure.. It's not easy to get up there yet. 

I have 4tb red drives in both my genies, and they work great so far. Then I see there's six to ones out now...


----------



## acostapimps

inkahauts said:


> Regular two tuner DVRs are stuck at 2tb drives. Genies however, go big... At least 12, maybe 16 or 18. Not completely sure.. It's not easy to get up there yet.
> 
> *I have 4tb red drives in both my genies*, and they work great so far. Then I see there's six to ones out now...


You have 2 Genies??


----------



## Rich

acostapimps said:


> You have 2 Genies??


Oops.

Rich


----------



## mocarob

Some people writing reviews on newegg don't like the EZRX.
Mine failed after 4 weeks.


----------



## Rich

mocarob said:


> Some people writing reviews on newegg don't like the EZRX.
> Mine failed after 4 weeks.


So? Mine are still running fine. Had them since they were introduced.

Rich


----------



## RunnerFL

mocarob said:


> Some people writing reviews on newegg don't like the EZRX.
> Mine failed after 4 weeks.


90% of people don't know how to write a good review in the first place nor do they know what they are actually reviewing when it comes to a hard drive.


----------



## mocarob

Sorry TomCat. I seem to have over stepped my bounds by offering some info on my EZRX drive. Please accept my sincerest apology.


----------



## Jason Whiddon

Still running the thermaltake max 5 and a WD AV-GP 2Tb drive.

I have my HR44 in the living room which records everything I schedule (non OTA locals). HR24 in the bedroom has the thermaltake add-on, also records everything except I get the OTA channels there. Allows for redundant recordings and OTA in the room with the best signal.

We dont watch much live, other than sports, so OTA is not an issue in the living room. PQ is just better IMO so I like to have recordings OTA.


----------



## Rich

RunnerFL said:


> 90% of people don't know how to write a good review in the first place nor do they know what they are actually reviewing when it comes to a hard drive.


And they don't know anything about the care and feeding of the HDDs. I've seen some really funny reviews on Amazon.

Rich


----------



## Rich

mocarob said:


> Sorry TomCat. I seem to have over stepped my bounds by offering some info on my EZRX drive. Please accept my sincerest apology.


Oh no, it's always good to see negative opinions as well as positive opinions. We know some drives just fail, that's just natural. I have seen some uproariously funny reviews on NewEgg and Amazon. Gotta take them with a grain of salt.

I don't recall anyone else having problems with the EZRX drives, but it really isn't surprising.

Anyhow, no need to feel hurt.

Rich


----------



## harsh

RunnerFL said:


> 90% of people don't know how to write a good review in the first place nor do they know what they are actually reviewing when it comes to a hard drive.


It is hard to say something good about something that failed. To speculate about why it failed probably isn't wise just as it isn't wise to assume that the reviewer was somehow misusing the mechanism.


----------



## RunnerFL

harsh said:


> It is hard to say something good about something that failed. To speculate about why it failed probably isn't wise just as it isn't wise to assume that the reviewer was somehow misusing the mechanism.


Nowhere did I say the reviewer was misusing the mechanism....

I disagree with "it is hard to say something good about something that failed'. Drives fail out of the box, that doesn't warrant a bad review of the device. Get a replacement then give an honest review once you've used the device for a while. Giving a DOA device a bad review is like giving a car a bad review because a tire went flat on your way home from the dealership.

I saw a review of a 4k TV the other day.... The guy gave the TV 1 star because there are no 4k broadcasts in his area. REALLY???? That's the TV's fault? That's what I'm getting at.


----------



## Rich

RunnerFL said:


> Nowhere did I say the reviewer was misusing the mechanism....
> 
> I disagree with "it is hard to say something good about something that failed'. Drives fail out of the box, that doesn't warrant a bad review of the device. Get a replacement then give an honest review once you've used the device for a while. Giving a DOA device a bad review is like giving a car a bad review because a tire went flat on your way home from the dealership.
> 
> _*I saw a review of a 4k TV the other day.... The guy gave the TV 1 star because there are no 4k broadcasts in his area. REALLY???? That's the TV's fault? That's what I'm getting at.*_


That's the kind of review I was talking about. Amazon gives you a chance to explain to these dolts just how dumb they sound. Politely, of course. I remember reading one review somewhere a couple years ago about how disappointed the reviewer was when he hooked up his 3D TV and didn't get a 3D picture. He had no 3D content to watch, just assumed that a 3D set would play anything in 3D. The reviews of AVR sets are usually pretty funny too.

Rich


----------



## harsh

RunnerFL said:


> Drives fail out of the box, that doesn't warrant a bad review of the device. Get a replacement then give an honest review once you've used the device for a while.


Why do you suppose they drive cars off of the assembly line?

If there's a non-negligible chance that the drive you buy is going to be DOA, that's certainly something to consider. It speaks to the tolerances it was designed to and how much care went into insuring that it was good when delivered. If the specifications say that the drive can take a 40g jolt, they should survive shipment. If they're shipping them out without testing them, that needs to be known.


----------



## peds48

harsh said:


> Why do you suppose they drive cars off of the assembly line?
> 
> If there's a non-negligible chance that the drive you buy is going to be DOA, that's certainly something to consider. It speaks to the tolerances it was designed to and how much care went into insuring that it was good when delivered. If the specifications say that the drive can take a 40g jolt, they should survive shipment. If they're shipping them out without testing them, that needs to be known.


So you have never bough anything, a refrigerator, cooktop, router, computer, TV, etc that was DOA? Lucky you&#8230;.

I guess computers are perfect after all and recalls are just for fun and to scare folks&#8230;. GM&#8230; Anyone??????


----------



## RunnerFL

harsh said:


> Why do you suppose they drive cars off of the assembly line?
> 
> If there's a non-negligible chance that the drive you buy is going to be DOA, that's certainly something to consider. It speaks to the tolerances it was designed to and how much care went into insuring that it was good when delivered. If the specifications say that the drive can take a 40g jolt, they should survive shipment. If they're shipping them out without testing them, that needs to be known.


You just don't get it.... A drive failure within days of installing it does NOT warrant a bad review of a drive, period.


----------



## harsh

peds48 said:


> So you have never bough anything, a refrigerator, cooktop, router, computer, TV, etc that was DOA?


Comparing a commodity like a hard drive to a computer or a TV isn't really fair.

Maxtor (now a subsidiary of Seagate) used to turn out a lot of DOA and short-lived mechanisms. Quantum (hard drive division acquired by Maxtor) had an even worse problem with DOA and stiction.

Does it make sense to you to put your eggs in a basket that is known to have a much higher actual MTBF than the engineers predicted?


----------



## harsh

RunnerFL said:


> You just don't get it.... A drive failure within days of installing it does NOT warrant a bad review of a drive, period.


Do you not consider the ability to function over time as a key attribute of a hard drive?

What is the point at which the functionality becomes questionable?

With a DIRECTV DVR, it takes a while to build up a collection but for general storage purposes, you have to worry about drives that have a demonstrable likelihood of not lasting through at least the retail warranty period.


----------



## inkahauts

One bad one doesn't equate to the drives being bad. If they all die after one year sure but one that dies a week later is an anomaly.


----------



## P Smith

perhaps it's time to round up the off-topic discussion and return to the topic ?


----------



## RunnerFL

harsh said:


> Do you not consider the ability to function over time as a key attribute of a hard drive?
> 
> What is the point at which the functionality becomes questionable?
> 
> With a DIRECTV DVR, it takes a while to build up a collection but for general storage purposes, you have to worry about drives that have a demonstrable likelihood of not lasting through at least the retail warranty period.


Do you not consider a drive that fails immediately as defective??? I do... Defective shouldn't mean you give it a bad review, period. "build up a collection" is FAR different from DOA. Of course you'd give it a bad review if it performs poorly, but still performs, over time. If it's DOA there's not a chance for you to decide how it performs, big difference.

Giving a DOA drive a poor rating is like giving your pool a poor rating because the sun isn't out.


----------



## RunnerFL

P Smith said:


> perhaps it's time to round up the off-topic discussion and return to the topic ?


The topic is hard drives to use with a DirecTV DVR, we're discussing hard drives for use with a DirecTV DVR.


----------



## Laxguy

A single - or bare- HD that is DOA also has a good chance of having been dropped kicked by a delivery service, or opps!: blam! on the cement floor of the Frys, BB, etc. Receiving or stock floor.


----------



## P Smith

RunnerFL said:


> The topic is hard drives to use with a DirecTV DVR, we're discussing hard drives for use with a DirecTV DVR.


well it's "eSATA - DIRECTV *recommended* list", not a generic discussion about DOA drives ... what is unfortunately going on a few pages already


----------



## Drew2k

P Smith said:


> well it's "eSATA - DIRECTV *recommended* list", not a generic discussion about DOA drives ... what is unfortunately going on a few pages already


If we only stuck with the *recommended *drives, this thread would be a lot shorter. DIRECTV lists exactly 4 drive models with 1 TB being the maximum size: https://support.directv.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1763

The discussion has moved well past those 4 drives, and isn't that a good thing? At 155 pages (with my forum display preferences) if the discussion is still about hard drives at all, that's impressive.


----------



## P Smith

then ask Mods to rename it to "Generic Discussion about HDD"


----------



## harsh

RunnerFL said:


> Do you not consider a drive that fails immediately as defective??? I do... Defective shouldn't mean you give it a bad review, period.


I don't give models that fail on me a second chance. Anything that isn't designed to be repaired needs to work at least until the warranty expires. There aren't that many moving parts in these drives and any flaws in soldering or connectors shouldn't be dismissed as anomalous as they are built in large part by machines.

What I can't excuse is the people that give something a bad review because they can't make it work due to ignorance or the inability of the vendor to deliver the appropriate product.


----------



## harsh

P Smith said:


> well it's "eSATA - DIRECTV *recommended* list", not a generic discussion about DOA drives ... what is unfortunately going on a few pages already


Versus repeated posts about the importance of running Victoria on drives that are behaving badly?


----------



## RunnerFL

P Smith said:


> well it's "eSATA - DIRECTV *recommended* list", not a generic discussion about DOA drives ... what is unfortunately going on a few pages already


The only thing off topic here is your berating of us.


----------



## RunnerFL

harsh said:


> I don't give models that fail on me a second chance. Anything that isn't designed to be repaired needs to work at least until the warranty expires. There aren't that many moving parts in these drives and any flaws in soldering or connectors shouldn't be dismissed as anomalous as they are built in large part by machines.
> 
> What I can't excuse is the people that give something a bad review because they can't make it work due to ignorance or the inability of the vendor to deliver the appropriate product.


You clearly have no idea what you're talking about... Stick with things you know, like Dish Network.


----------



## P Smith

MHDD is first choice, if you are not capable run DOS mode, then use Victoria ...
how else you can say what's wrong with your drive ?!
giving cryptic codes from DVR ? give me SMART instead !


----------



## RunnerFL

P Smith said:


> MHDD is first choice, if you are not capable run DOS mode, then use Victoria ...
> how else you can say what's wrong with your drive ?!
> giving cryptic codes from DVR ? give me SMART instead !


If the DVR is telling you there is something wrong then there is something wrong. It's just that simple.

Oh, and the DVR uses SMART so you're already getting SMART results.


----------



## P Smith

really ?
perhaps I know how to take it out of DVR, but for sure you and anyone here is not !
that's why everyone is crying for help but no one posted SMART of 'failed' drive
and yeah, I DON'T TRUST CRYPTIC INFO !
plus, there're a myriad of reasons for cryptic code beside bad drive ... need technical ? you should knew as experienced IT person


----------



## Laxguy

P Smith said:


> then ask Mods to rename it to "Generic Discussion about HDD"


You can always unsubscribe to the thread! It's easy!


----------



## P Smith

Laxguy said:


> You can always unsubscribe to the thread! It's easy!


I would like unsubscribe from off-topic posts... tell me how ?!


----------



## RunnerFL

P Smith said:


> really ?
> perhaps I know how to take it out of DVR, but for sure you and anyone here is not !
> that's why everyone is crying for help but no one posted SMART of 'failed' drive
> and yeah, I DON'T TRUST CRYPTIC INFO !
> plus, there're a myriad of reasons for cryptic code beside bad drive ... need technical ? you should knew as experienced IT person


It's not cryptic, it's in plain English.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

Keep it civil. Discuss the topic and not each other. Take it to PM or report posts or just plain let it go.

:backtotop:

Mike


----------



## harsh

RunnerFL said:


> You clearly have no idea what you're talking about...


How is what you highlighted not true?

There's the arms that are attached to the actuator motor shaft and the platters that rotate on the main spindle. It isn't like the old days where there were fans, voice coils and the heads moving in and out on rails.


----------



## Rich

Laxguy said:


> A single - or bare- HD that is DOA also has a good chance of having been dropped kicked by a delivery service, or opps!: blam! on the cement floor of the Frys, BB, etc. Receiving or stock floor.


With all the HDDs I've bought, I've never had one DOA. I've had them fail after a short time, but that didn't stop me from buying the same model.

Rich


----------



## Rich

P Smith said:


> then ask Mods to rename it to "Generic Discussion about HDD"


Not gonna happen.

Rich


----------



## Laxguy

Rich said:


> With all the HDDs I've bought, I've never had one DOA. I've had them fail after a short time, but that didn't stop me from buying the same model.


Understood. But your personal experience, even with many dozen HDs, is still not statistically significant. Significant, but not statistically!


----------



## Rich

Laxguy said:


> Understood. But your personal experience, even with many dozen HDs, is still not statistically significant. Significant, but not statistically!


Coupled with my unusually bad luck, I find it significant. :rolling:

Rich


----------



## peds48

harsh said:


> I don't give models that fail on me a second chance. Anything that isn't designed to be repaired needs to work at least until the warranty expires. There aren't that many moving parts in these drives and any flaws in soldering or connectors shouldn't be dismissed as anomalous as they are built in large part by machines.
> 
> What I can't excuse is the people that give something a bad review because they can't make it work due to ignorance or the inability of the vendor to deliver the appropriate product.


Unfortunately, machines are as perfect as the humans who made them. Every now and then there is a bad batch. Most of the time this is caught before the product hit the shelfs, but sometime is after the fact. "stuff" happens. Unlike popular belief, there are plenty DOA drives sitting on store shelves right now.


----------



## xtc

Would this 4TB Seagate drive be fine for an HR34? (The drive inside is actually a ST4000DM000, which is a 5900 RPM, SATA 6Gb/s, 64MB cache) I would take it out and use it in my Rosewill enclosure. I am currently using a 3TB 7200 RPM Seagate drive inside that Rosewill enclosure, so just wondering if this 5900 RPM drive would cause any issues or will be different in any way?

And is it ok to have 2 different external drives associated with one HR34? If I keep swap these 2 drives inside my Rosewill enclosure back and fourth to view certain shows? Would there be any issues?


----------



## Rich

xtc said:


> Would this 4TB Seagate drive be fine for an HR34? (The drive inside is actually a ST4000DM000, which is a 5900 RPM, SATA 6Gb/s, 64MB cache) I would take it out and use it in my Rosewill enclosure. I am currently using a 3TB 7200 RPM Seagate drive inside that Rosewill enclosure, so just wondering if this 5900 RPM drive would cause any issues or will be different in any way?
> 
> And is it ok to have 2 different external drives associated with one HR34? If I keep swap these 2 drives inside my Rosewill enclosure back and fourth to view certain shows? Would there be any issues?


You're sure that's a SATA drive in that thing? It has USB plastered all over the link you posted. You can swap externals back and forth without any problems.

Rich


----------



## RunnerFL

xtc said:


> Would this 4TB Seagate drive be fine for an HR34? (The drive inside is actually a ST4000DM000, which is a 5900 RPM, SATA 6Gb/s, 64MB cache) I would take it out and use it in my Rosewill enclosure. I am currently using a 3TB 7200 RPM Seagate drive inside that Rosewill enclosure, so just wondering if this 5900 RPM drive would cause any issues or will be different in any way?
> 
> And is it ok to have 2 different external drives associated with one HR34? If I keep swap these 2 drives inside my Rosewill enclosure back and fourth to view certain shows? Would there be any issues?


I have one of those Seagates on my Xbox One, it's not eSATA so it won't work.


----------



## bpratt

If the Rosewill enclosure is this one, it does have an esata connector:
http://www.amazon.com/Rosewill-3-5-Inch-External-Enclosure-Internal/dp/B004AA4E8K/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

If the 4TB Seagate drive will work in the Rosewill enclosure, the 5900 (are you sure its not 5400?) should work fine when connected to your HR34. I have a couple of Thermaltake enclosures that won't recognize a 4TB drive.


----------



## peds48

Rich said:


> You're sure that's a SATA drive in that thing?


All, "common" hard rives have a SATA interface.


----------



## peds48

RunnerFL said:


> I have one of those Seagates on my Xbox One, it's not eSATA so it won't work.


He is referring to removing the SATA drive to put it in a Rosewell enclosure that has supposedly e-SATA. I don't se nothing wrong with this&#8230;.


----------



## RunnerFL

peds48 said:


> He is referring to removing the SATA drive to put it in a Rosewell enclosure that has supposedly e-SATA. I don't se nothing wrong with this&#8230;.


As long as the enclosure supports 4TB, sure. Not everything that supports 3TB will support 4TB and above.


----------



## Daybreak

Howdy,
New Genie HR44-500 using a WD 4TB Purple drive internal without issue. (initialized on Win 7 PC prior to use)
HR24-100 with Antec MX-1 with a 1TB WD AV-GP drive circa 2010 (used on HR20 before this)
All drives and DVR's working good here.


----------



## Rich

Daybreak said:


> Howdy,
> New Genie HR44-500 using a WD 4TB Purple drive internal without issue. (initialized on Win 7 PC prior to use)
> HR24-100 with Antec MX-1 with a 1TB WD AV-GP drive circa 2010 (used on HR20 before this)
> All drives and DVR's working good here.


Welcome to the forum. Please let us know if any issues arise.

Rich


----------



## cstelter

Hi All, 
I've googled around and haven't really found anything. Found some reports early on in this thread that sounded similar to my problem ,but that was 5 years ago so not sure how to react to that.

Here's my saga-- any pointers greatly appreciated.

I've been using my trusty HR20-700 for just over 7 years. I figured the HDD was due to go soon and I've been having problems keeping up with the shows. So I went out and bought a Fantom GF3B2000EU for about $100 in hopes of upping to a 2TB drive that wasn't 7 years old.

It wen tin fine and rebooted. I reset my season passes. The video was good, but occasionally while watching it seemed to stop listening to the remote control. I'd have to wait 5-10s for the remote to continue working. Everything else was fine. After doing research I learned I should have perhaps gotten one with 64MB cache or possibly an AV drive. Finally I decided to buy a WD20EURS which seemed to be recommended and I picked one up for $80. I decided to void the warranty on the FD by removing the original HDD (Hitachi it turned out) and putting the new WD AV-GP drive in its place. 

The first reboot took *forever* (30-40minutes) and it was hung on self-check. Each reboot after also took exceeding long at self-check. 

Viewing video had a pronounced stutter every 3-5s and one show failed to record properly. It was in the now playing as recording, but when you would try to play it would immediately pop ou. It was still recording and when I went to live it looked like everything was fine. But when I tried to skip to start of show, it jumped back to 8AM (this was like 8:30pm) and it had no content. After invoking double play I was able to get back to the live show, but could never rewind to the start. After show was done, I rebooted machine and after reboot it was no longer in my play list.

I stopped using the disk after this and pulled it out and mounted it in a PC and tried running spinrite on it. It kept crashing with an unexpected error. I booted into vista and ran data lifeguard tools from wd on the drive and it gave me a test failed on short test.

Even though I had bought the drive new, it only had 145 days left on the warranty, but I ordered an RMA which arrived today-- WD20EURX. This one is looking like it is behaving just like the other.

Where do I go from here? Advice? Now I'm questioning if mounting it in the FD enclosure is messing up the WD drives, but I would presume it's only supplying power and a pass-through from the Esata to sata port. Anyway, I'm extremely frustrated and would appreciate any pointers.


----------



## inkahauts

That's real bad luck if you got to dudes in a row, but if it has issues have them send you another till you get one that works...


----------



## P Smith

yeah ... keep them pestered


----------



## harsh

cstelter said:


> I stopped using the disk after this and pulled it out and mounted it in a PC and tried running spinrite on it. It kept crashing with an unexpected error. I booted into vista and ran data lifeguard tools from wd on the drive and it gave me a test failed on short test.
> 
> Even though I had bought the drive new, it only had 145 days left on the warranty, but I ordered an RMA which arrived today-- WD20EURX. This one is looking like it is behaving just like the other.


If you connect the newest drive to the computer mainboard (not through the Fantom) and it gags in Spinrite as well, you probably have another bad drive.

It would seem extraordinary that the enclosure could damage the drive unless the power supply is marginal and causing the drive to somehow soil itself.


----------



## P Smith

it would be extraordinaire problem inside of USB HDD enclosure what would physically damage a drive - it's more likely sci-fi scenario, not a real case

try self-bootable CD with MHDD to pull any info about the drive and it's health; hint - pull full SMART and post it here


----------



## Rich

cstelter said:


> Hi All,
> I've googled around and haven't really found anything. Found some reports early on in this thread that sounded similar to my problem ,but that was 5 years ago so not sure how to react to that.
> 
> I've been using my trusty HR20-700 for just over 7 years. I figured the HDD was due to go soon and I've been having problems keeping up with the shows. _*So I went out and bought a Fantom GF3B2000EU*_ for about $100 in hopes of upping to a 2TB drive that wasn't 7 years old.
> 
> _* Finally I decided to buy a WD20EURS which seemed to be recommended and I picked one up for $80. *_
> 
> _*Where do I go from here? Advice?*_


What you should have done is come here and just ask the question. No real need to suffer thru pages of posts.

First, we haven't heard much about the Fantom enclosures, but what I've read hasn't been good.

Second, I wouldn't buy an EURS if they were selling them for a buck. We've had far too many complaints about them. (Now several people will pop up and say their EURS is working wonderfully. That's great for them, but I still wouldn't buy one.)

If you really need an enclosure, you might try one of _*these*_. We do recommend them. For an HDD I use the EZRX model from WD. I've had no problems with them. Here's a _*link*_.

Rich


----------



## mocarob

cstelter said:


> Hi All,
> I've googled around and haven't really found anything. Found some reports early on in this thread that sounded similar to my problem ,but that was 5 years ago so not sure how to react to that.
> Here's my saga-- any pointers greatly appreciated.
> I've been using my trusty HR20-700 for just over 7 years. I figured the HDD was due to go soon and I've been having problems keeping up with the shows. So I went out and bought a Fantom GF3B2000EU for about $100 in hopes of upping to a 2TB drive that wasn't 7 years old.
> It wen tin fine and rebooted. I reset my season passes. The video was good, but occasionally while watching it seemed to stop listening to the remote control. I'd have to wait 5-10s for the remote to continue working. Everything else was fine. After doing research I learned I should have perhaps gotten one with 64MB cache or possibly an AV drive.


So the only issue you had with the Fantom was the documented slow remote issue?
How much you want for it?


----------



## Laxguy

A real (new?) question: 

I am presuming that a drive taken out of an owned unit cannot be used as an external, that is, without losing the use of all recordings and SLs thereon. Nor can an external be swapped in as an internal without rendering what's on the drive inaccessible? Are these assumptions backed by someone's real experience?


----------



## Rich

Laxguy said:


> A real (new?) question:
> 
> I am presuming that a drive taken out of an owned unit cannot be used as an external, that is, without losing the use of all recordings and SLs thereon. Nor can an external be swapped in as an internal without rendering what's on the drive inaccessible? Are these assumptions backed by someone's real experience?


Confusing question. I can see you struggled with it. Yes, you can remove the internal drive, insert a bigger drive and put the original drive in an external device and use it on the same HR that you recorded the content on. I have done that several times. I have also taken 2TB drives out of TT docks and put them in the HR that it was used on and it played as it did when used externally. I did that because of the difficulty involved in putting a larger drive in a 24-100. I was having problems with the TT dock and just gave up and put the drive inside the owned box. Not a pleasant or easy job, I can tell you that. But no matter what you do, the marriage between HDD and HR cannot be dissolved. In other words, if it was recorded on one HR you can't use that HDD on another HR.

Rich


----------



## P Smith

for those who are concern what drive to buy, you must read it:
https://www.backblaze.com/blog/what-hard-drive-should-i-buy/
and this
https://www.backblaze.com/blog/hard-drive-reliability-update-september-2014/


----------



## Laxguy

Rich said:


> Confusing question. I can see you struggled with it. Yes, you can remove the internal drive, insert a bigger drive and put the original drive in an external device and use it on the same HR that you recorded the content on. I have done that several times. I have also taken 2TB drives out of TT docks and put them in the HR that it was used on and it played as it did when used externally. I did that because of the difficulty involved in putting a larger drive in a 24-100. I was having problems with the TT dock and just gave up and put the drive inside the owned box. Not a pleasant or easy job, I can tell you that. But no matter what you do, the marriage between HDD and HR cannot be dissolved. In other words, if it was recorded on one HR you can't use that HDD on another HR


Thanks, but it's not clear from the above that I will retain and be able to access recordings by moving the internal to an external position. (Of course on same box. I am very clear that there's no chance I can access anything on a different IRD.)


----------



## inkahauts

Laxguy said:


> Thanks, but it's not clear from the above that I will retain and be able to access recordings by moving the internal to an external position. (Of course on same box. I am very clear that there's no chance I can access anything on a different IRD.)


Yes you can but why on earth would you? Seriously curios why it's even a thought?


----------



## RunnerFL

Laxguy said:


> A real (new?) question:
> 
> I am presuming that a drive taken out of an owned unit cannot be used as an external, that is, without losing the use of all recordings and SLs thereon. Nor can an external be swapped in as an internal without rendering what's on the drive inaccessible? Are these assumptions backed by someone's real experience?


You can move the drives from internal to external and external to internal all day long and not lose content as long as you are using the same DVR each time.


----------



## Laxguy

RunnerFL said:


> You can move the drives from internal to external and external to internal all day long and not lose content as long as you are using the same DVR each time.


Thank you.

Why do I want to, Inky? Because I have a lot of shows on the internal that I may not be able to re-download. The internal HD is going bad, so I will replace it with a 2 TB drive. If I am not able to get those shows again, I can just external the wonky internal and hope for the best. At least I know now I'll have a shot at it.


----------



## hdtvluvr

How will you boot into the external if the internal is still in place? Won't the DVR boot to it first? Why not copy the programs from the internal to the external before installing it into the DVR?


----------



## Laxguy

hdtvluvr said:


> How will you boot into the external if the internal is still in place? Won't the DVR boot to it first? Why not copy the programs from the internal to the external before installing it into the DVR?


Apparently not, but I have never had occasion to use an external till now. I am pretty sure I've read that getting it to boot off the external is automatic, just have to make sure it's spun up when you reboot.

Copying would be good, but I have only Macs and am under the impression I need Windows or Linux to do so. If I could use Terminal or an app, that'd be very handy.


----------



## cstelter

mocarob said:


> So the only issue you had with the Fantom was the documented slow remote issue?
> How much you want for it?


Wait, where can I find this documented slow remote issue? Is that standard with the external drive? That was the only problem I had found. I tried googling for that issue when it first cropped up. I came across a video of someone showing how to build an external enclosure out of the box the WD AV-GP drive comes in. That guy was pretty adamant about using an AV drive which I took with a grain of salt, but when I found one for only $80 I figured that might have been the prob.

Anyway, thanks for all the replies-- where can I find out the slow remote issue-- I've found articles about folks complaining about it and others suggesting they get an external drive, but my remote has no problems at all on the internal drive-- just the fantom drive.

Oh-- I forgot to mention that I'm very leery of the original Hitachi in the FD enclosure. My daughter didn't like the blue led so she stuck a shirt over the whole drive. I discovered it about 10 hours later and removed it and the drive was *hot*. I know heat can lead to HDD probs, so that was another reason for me to want to switch to a new drive. I've been planning to stick the Hitachi in a computer and hope it lasts. When I swapped out the drive I simply disconnected the led.


----------



## mocarob

Remote issues introduced with the last couple of firmware updates. I have it with my HR20 & HR21

http://www.dbstalk.com/topic/213470-hd-receivers-dvrs-and-r22-0x08a50x08a60x48a60x08ca-issuesdiscussion/


----------



## hdtvluvr

I saw a post in another thread somewhere (can't find it now) where they used a duplicator.

Here are a couple links to duplicators:

http://biz.tigerdirect.com/product/itemKey/102232998
couldn't find a manual on this one.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=914115&gclid=CMnk5bHYssICFeRDMgodencA6Q&Q=&is=REG&A=details
and the manual of this one is here:
http://aleratec.net/pdf_guides_directory/hdd-duplicators/1-1-usb-3-sata-hard-disk-drive-duplicator-dock-350123-QSG.pdf

I'm also a Mac user but when I did mine a couple years ago, I used a pc laptop, gparted and 2 external drive enclosures. Also had to buy a card for the laptop to read the 2 sata drives. Lots more money than these duplicators.


----------



## inkahauts

Cloning a drive won't work. You need to use a proper copying technique. It would leave him with several issues. 

Laxguy... You need to find a friend who has a pic. You don't need an OS as long as you have two esata ports and you use the gparted disc to boot the computer. Just use the entire original instructions in the copy thread.


----------



## hdtvluvr

inkahauts said:


> Cloning a drive won't work. You need to use a proper copying technique. It would leave him with several issues.


So copying sector for sector won't work? I though maybe gparted was used because duplicators were expensive back in the day.


----------



## HofstraJet

inkahauts said:


> Cloning a drive won't work. You need to use a proper copying technique. It would leave him with several issues.


See posts 3028 and 3029 which state that cloning will work (I'm on my iPad otherwise I would paste them).


----------



## Laxguy

HofstraJet said:


> See posts 3028 and 3029 which state that cloning will work (I'm on my iPad otherwise I would paste them).


Thanks, but I can't be sure they refer to cloning in the strict sense we mean, and particularly for Macs. Both of them are technically savvy, but again, cloning can be used loosely or tightly.


----------



## hdtvluvr

The duplicators I linked to above (at least the 2nd for sure) do not require a computer at all. It is all contained and done within the device and copies sector for sector. The video about the 2nd one says it is a exact copy as one would expect.

If a duplicator would work, I'd sell my 2 enclosures, dual input esata card and do something with the PC laptop.


----------



## inkahauts

HofstraJet said:


> See posts 3028 and 3029 which state that cloning will work (I'm on my iPad otherwise I would paste them).


Cloning will not work for sure if he is going to a larger drive, it would still think he has a smaller drive. So he'd gain no space.

And results will vary for it working at all, some machines will let it, some won't, it has to do with some of the fine points in how it denotes a drive for a specific DVR.

I wish it was so simple, I really really do...


----------



## HofstraJet

inkahauts said:


> Cloning will not work for sure if he is going to a larger drive, it would still think he has a smaller drive. So he'd gain no space.
> 
> And results will vary for it working at all, some machines will let it, some won't, it has to do with some of the fine points in how it denotes a drive for a specific DVR.
> 
> I wish it was so simple, I really really do...


I don't doubt you, but I would like to hear from the posters I referenced to see why they suggest it would work.


----------



## P Smith

If your Mac is Intel based model, try to boot from cd or dvd Linux distro, there is good chance it will allow you make the copy if the model would have two SATA ports or you can add a card with the ports.


----------



## inkahauts

HofstraJet said:


> I don't doubt you, but I would like to hear from the posters I referenced to see why they suggest it would work.


If you search for the right thread about how to copy and replace the hard drive in there they give you the specific reasons. (It's a big thread though) I don't think the ones talking about it where being quite so literal and I am not sure either have ever even tried either. I don't ever remember PEDS saying he has but it wouldn't surprise me either way.


----------



## RunnerFL

Laxguy said:


> Apparently not, but I have never had occasion to use an external till now. I am pretty sure I've read that getting it to boot off the external is automatic, just have to make sure it's spun up when you reboot.
> 
> Copying would be good, but I have only Macs and am under the impression I need Windows or Linux to do so. If I could use Terminal or an app, that'd be very handy.


Yup, as long as the External is powered up your DVR will use it if it is connected. Just shutdown, hook up external, then boot.

You can copy the drives using a Mac, it's just a bit more involved. If nothing else the gparted disk will boot up any machine.


----------



## RunnerFL

HofstraJet said:


> I don't doubt you, but I would like to hear from the posters I referenced to see why they suggest it would work.


He's right. Cloning will give you an exact copy of the original drive, including size. If you cloned a 1TB drive to a 2TB drive you'd only have 1TB usable.


----------



## harsh

P Smith said:


> If your Mac is Intel based model, try to boot from cd or dvd Linux distro, there is good chance it will allow you make the copy if the model would have two SATA ports or you can add a card with the ports.


As inkahauts suggested in post 3130, this is a topic for a different existing thread (that the forum search feature didn't help me to locate) and has no place in an ostensibly hardware-oriented thread.

http://www.dbstalk.com/topic/140114-how-to-copy-and-replace-internal-hard-drive/

:backtotop


----------



## HofstraJet

RunnerFL said:


> He's right. Cloning will give you an exact copy of the original drive, including size. If you cloned a 1TB drive to a 2TB drive you'd only have 1TB usable.


Understood about the size - my post was unclear as that wasn't the point I was debating. inkhauts states that cloning will not work at all, but you and peds48 state that cloning will work. But as you astutely noted, this is a topic for the other thread. :righton:


----------



## Laxguy

Thank you all.

I have reposted a *summation here, in the suggested thread.*


----------



## Rich

Laxguy said:


> Thanks, but it's not clear from the above that I will retain and be able to access recordings by moving the internal to an external position. _*(Of course on same box. I am very clear that there's no chance I can access anything on a different IRD.)*_


I didn't add that for you, I know you know that. Yes you can use any HDD recorded on the HR that did the recording. And you will see and be able to play the content.

Rich


----------



## Rich

inkahauts said:


> Yes you can but why on earth would you? Seriously curios why it's even a thought?


I've done it because the removed drive had content on it that I wanted to see. Used a TT dock and just stuck the old HDD in it and got caught up quickly.

Rich


----------



## Rich

hdtvluvr said:


> How will you boot into the external if the internal is still in place? Won't the DVR boot to it first? Why not copy the programs from the internal to the external before installing it into the DVR?


Actually, you need an internal drive to use an external drive. There was a time that you could take the internal out and just boot up on the external device, but D* did something to the software and I don't think you can do that anymore.

Rich


----------



## RunnerFL

Rich said:


> Actually, you need an internal drive to use an external drive. There was a time that you could take the internal out and just boot up on the external device, but D* did something to the software and I don't think you can do that anymore.
> 
> Rich


I don't have an internal on my HR44, external alone works just fine.


----------



## Rich

Laxguy said:


> Apparently not, but I have never had occasion to use an external till now. I am pretty sure I've read that getting it to boot off the external is automatic, just have to make sure it's spun up when you reboot.
> 
> Copying would be good, but I have only Macs and am under the impression I need Windows or Linux to do so. If I could use Terminal or an app, that'd be very handy.


What you're doing makes sense, to me. Here's how to do it (not just for you, but anyone else who's interested):

Connect the eSATA to eSATA jumper cable to the HR and the external device and never touch it again.

Plug in the external device with the HDD in it and wait a bit. 30 seconds is usually plenty of time for the external drive to spin up.

Plug in the HR and it should boot up on the external drive. It's really that simple.

If it doesn't work, PM me.

Rich


----------



## Rich

cstelter said:


> _*Wait, where can I find this documented slow remote issue? Is that standard with the external drive?*_


I think that was in a previous post in this thread, a recent post. No, you should see no difference in remote commands using an external.

Rich


----------



## Rich

RunnerFL said:


> I don't have an internal on my HR44, external alone works just fine.


I'm pretty sure it won't work on the two tuner sets. I don't have any need for a Genie, so I just know what I read about them. I'm kinda surprised that they took away that ability on the two tuner units but left it alone on the Genies. Or maybe it works again on the two tuner sets.

Rich


----------



## Laxguy

Thank you, Rich. I think we should continue in the thread I referenced just above.


----------



## mocarob

Rich said:


> I'm pretty sure it won't work on the two tuner sets. I don't have any need for a Genie, so I just know what I read about them. I'm kinda surprised that they took away that ability on the two tuner units but left it alone on the Genies. Or maybe it works again on the two tuner sets.
> 
> Rich


I tried to boot with only an Xternal a couple of days ago on my HR21. No go..


----------



## Laxguy

Got my 2 TB drive and now I can't find the power cord to the Thermaltake dock. Their website doesn't specify the amperage- it's a 12v. External, and the input isn't stickers. Tried a 1 amp one I had lying around, but it didn't show up on my computer, so I don't know if the wrong wall wart is the problem or something else. At least no smoke was apparent and the drive spun up, but didn't mount. If someone could post what the specs are for the power supply, I would be grateful.


----------



## mocarob

My BlacX is a 12v-2a. Part# CS-1202000.


----------



## Laxguy

Ah, thank you very much. That will narrow the search down a lot. I've saved wall warts over the years, and must have fifty or so. Time to weed them; at least the Nokia and Motorola ones can go!


----------



## Rich

Laxguy said:


> Ah, thank you very much. That will narrow the search down a lot. I've saved wall warts over the years, and must have fifty or so. Time to weed them; at least the Nokia and Motorola ones can go!


Now, wouldn't you think everybody should have to label their wall warts as Roku kindly does? I have so many of the damn things in a bin that I know I'll never use, but I also know, with my luck, I could throw them all out and need one the next day. :nono2:

Frustrating, isn't it?

Rich


----------



## juniormaj

Rich said:


> Now, wouldn't you think everybody should have to label their wall warts as Roku kindly does? I have so many of the damn things in a bin that I know I'll never use, but I also know, with my luck, I could throw them all out and need one the next day. :nono2:
> 
> Frustrating, isn't it?
> 
> Rich


I've tried to get in the habit of labeling them as I get them, but yeah, it would be nice if they shipped that way.


----------



## Laxguy

Excelsior! Found it, and it even matches the picture on their website. (which gives no freakin' specs!). It was on a Netgear router I set up recently, and so when I went to replace it with a wall wart that was labelled Netgear, it didn't work. It was one amp. So , I found another two amp wall wart for the Netgear, and, crossing fingers, I am back in business. 

I try not to over power or underpowered my devices, and so fingers are really crossed on the Netgear 3400.


----------



## Silvergoat

Just adding my two cents. Have a raid 50 using 6x4 terabyte WD red hard drives in a Mediasonic H8R2-SU352 raid box. Works great!

http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digital-WD40EFRX-Cache-Drive/dp/B00EHBERSE

http://www.mediasonic.ca/product.php?id=1357290608


----------



## P Smith

Oh man! Why the recordings are so important to pay triple or more price for 8GB of usable space?!


----------



## SubSolar

Hey guys I just had an HR44-500 installed. Been a few years since I've had DirecTV and upgraded the external drive. I think I had 1TB before.

I was wondering if anyone has had a 6 TB setup and can share what they used? It sounds like this Thermaltake Max 5 (http://www.amazon.com/Thermaltake-A...1U/dp/B004G8QETS/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top)%C2 works with up to 3 TB (even though it says on site only up to 2 TB). Can anyone confirm if this works with 6 TB drives?

Also do you guys recommend the Western Digital Reds or Greens?

http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digital-3-5-inch-IntelliPower-WD60EFRX/dp/B00LO3KR96/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1421442262&sr=8-2&keywords=6+tb+internal+hard+drive&pebp=1421442275070&peasin=B00LO3KR96

http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digital-3-5-inch-IntelliPower-WD60EZRX/dp/B00LO3KMK0/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1421442262&sr=8-3&keywords=6+tb+internal+hard+drive


----------



## RunnerFL

There are numerous postings in this very same thread from those of us running large drive setups. I've run up to 16TB personally.


----------



## SubSolar

RunnerFL said:


> There are numerous postings in this very same thread from those of us running large drive setups. I've run up to 16TB personally.


Cool, what is your setup? I looked back in this thread about a year and a half, I see people running more than 4TB but only with RAID, multiple disk setups. Are there known single drive eSata enclosures model numbers that will work with one 6TB drive?


----------



## P Smith

When the 6 GB drives came to shelves? Year and an half? 
You must do your leg works, no one used such drive yet. Do own recearch, call and send email requests to mfg of enclosures,ask which one do support the your drive.

I would buy a green model if it AV-GP kind.


----------



## RunnerFL

SubSolar said:


> Cool, what is your setup? I looked back in this thread about a year and a half, I see people running more than 4TB but only with RAID, multiple disk setups. Are there known single drive eSata enclosures model numbers that will work with one 6TB drive?


There are several people in here using single drive eSATA enclosures. You just need to do your reading like everyone else has or do like most of us and just give it a shot and let us know if it works or not.

The trend seems to be WD Red or Purple drives now. Several people have them working. I personally go with Enterprise level Seagate drives.


----------



## gosforth

Have people tried a fantom gforce 4TB drive with an HR-24? I've read some reviews on Amazon that say it works fine but other searches say it won't support bigger than a 2TB external. 

Anyone got some current data on what works and what they recommend?


----------



## WestDC

Your Hr24 WOn't support any drive larger than 2TB

A genie will support Drive up to 16TB


----------



## Rich

WestDC said:


> Your Hr24 WOn't support any drive larger than 2TB
> 
> A genie will support Drive up to 16TB


Right. You might be able to mount a 4TB in a 24 but I'd think you'd only be able to use it as a 2TB HDD. I can see where people might have installed a 4TB externally or internally on a 24 and thought they were getting all 4TBs of capacity, there's nothing on the 24s that would tell you that you're only using 2TBs. But the limit is fixed in stone at 2TBs.

Rich


----------



## RunnerFL

Rich said:


> Right. You might be able to mount a 4TB in a 24 but I'd think you'd only be able to use it as a 2TB HDD. I can see where people might have installed a 4TB externally or internally on a 24 and thought they were getting all 4TBs of capacity, there's nothing on the 24s that would tell you that you're only using 2TBs. But the limit is fixed in stone at 2TBs.
> 
> Rich


Yeah, the only way to know for sure is to then take the drive and hook it up to a PC and check the partitions. I've tried this numerous times myself and any drive over 2TB is partitioned as only 2TB on any HR2X machine.


----------



## TheJoe

so 2 tb limit in the HR-24 but what is in it factory?


----------



## RunnerFL

TheJoe said:


> so 2 tb limit in the HR-24 but what is in it factory?


500G


----------



## TheJoe

RunnerFL said:


> 500G


ok so a 2gb upgrade would be pretty substantial, especially with 2 DVR's in the home so i could go 4 total between the two.

im a noobie to this and ive spent the last 2-3 weeks looking into hdd's over all kinds of searches so I finally joined DBSTalk since it seems like the most knowledge is found here.

The question i have is because it has to be an eSata connection, im curious if there is a 2gb eSata HDD unit (1 box hdd, cable, power etc) that works on the HR24? whenever i think i find one there is someone saying the hdd that was recommended doesn't work well with the hr24?

Could anybody recommend one? I just had both HR24's fail and plugged in yesterday so there will be minimal loss if I can get an External hooked up in time and if they fail again i will still have the shows I recorded.


----------



## peds48

TheJoe said:


> ok so a 2gb upgrade would be pretty substantial, especially with 2 DVR's in the home so i could go 4 total between the two.
> 
> im a noobie to this and ive spent the last 2-3 weeks looking into hdd's over all kinds of searches so I finally joined DBSTalk since it seems like the most knowledge is found here.
> 
> The question i have is because it has to be an eSata connection, im curious if there is a 2gb eSata HDD unit (1 box hdd, cable, power etc) that works on the HR24? whenever i think i find one there is someone saying the hdd that was recommended doesn't work well with the hr24?
> 
> Could anybody recommend one? I just had both HR24's fail and plugged in yesterday so there will be minimal loss if I can get an External hooked up in time and if they fail again i will still have the shows I recorded.


I believe you mean 2 TB. Generally you want to buy an active cooled enclosure for the SATA HDD. most already built in units are poorly cooled.

Sent from my iPad Pro using Tapatalk


----------



## TheJoe

peds48 said:


> I believe you mean 2 TB. Generally you want to buy an active cooled enclosure for the SATA HDD. most already built in units are poorly cooled.
> 
> Sent from my iPad Pro using Tapatalk


Sorry, im not savy to all this. What is an "active cooled enclosure" opposed to "most already built in units"?

So is there a popular Enclosure and brand HDD that are the go-to's?

Thank you


----------



## TheJoe

Is this what you are talking about? Its got the eSata port and fan in the fan on it?

http://www.amazon.com/SATA-Hard-Drive-Aluminum-Enclosure/dp/B00OZETH7O/ref=sr_1_29?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1449376090&sr=1-29&keywords=fan+hard+drive+enclosure


----------



## peds48

TheJoe said:


> Sorry, im not savy to all this. What is an "active cooled enclosure" opposed to "most already built in units"?
> 
> So is there a popular Enclosure and brand HDD that are the go-to's?
> 
> Thank you


active cooled means it has a fan(s) to keep the HDD cool as opposed as just having vents.

Sent from my iPad Pro using Tapatalk


----------



## TheJoe

Last question.... is there a recommendation for 2tb HDD? one better than another? Does RPM matter? Also does choosing the hdd as sata 1/2/3 matter? im guessing 3


----------



## TheJoe

Im thinking of the Western Digital RED since its known for DVR's and long term recording like security systems

http://www.amazon.com/Red-Desktop-Hard-Disk-Drive/dp/B008JJLZ7G/ref=sr_1_2?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1449378795&sr=1-2&keywords=hard+drive&refinements=p_n_feature_keywords_six_browse-bin%3A6158683011%2Cp_n_feature_keywords_four_browse-bin%3A8067152011%2Cp_89%3AWestern+Digital


----------



## inkahauts

I am running 4tb red drive and have been very happy.


----------



## Rich

TheJoe said:


> Im thinking of the Western Digital RED since its known for DVR's and long term recording like security systems
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Red-Desktop-Hard-Disk-Drive/dp/B008JJLZ7G/ref=sr_1_2?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1449378795&sr=1-2&keywords=hard+drive&refinements=p_n_feature_keywords_six_browse-bin%3A6158683011%2Cp_n_feature_keywords_four_browse-bin%3A8067152011%2Cp_89%3AWestern+Digital


Yup, that will work, I prefer the Green Caviars, but that's just a personal preference. I'd also suggest considering the ThermalTake BlackX dock as an external device. No fans, no tools needed to install the HDD, just put it in the dock and you're set. Never had a heat issue with the docks, nor a dust build up issue and I've been using them for years. I own all my DVRs and the only external HDD I have is on a 24-200, which is a DVR that is a real PITA to install an internal drive in because of the sled that holds the HDD. I'm using the TT dock with that and have a WD EZRX 2TB in it.

Rich


----------



## dazed&confuzed

inkahauts said:


> I am running 4tb red drive and have been very happy.


What enclosure are you using with the 4 Tb?
I currently have a Black-X dock on my Genie but the specs say that the max supported is 2 TB
I have a 6 Tb WD red drive on the way


----------



## buist

Dazed and Confuzed:

I have a 4TB WD Green drive that is working fine with a Black-X. There may be different firmware or hardware versions of the Black-X, but in my case it works perfectly fine.

Thanks,
Tim


----------



## dazed&confuzed

buist said:


> Dazed and Confuzed:
> 
> I have a 4TB WD Green drive that is working fine with a Black-X. There may be different firmware or hardware versions of the Black-X, but in my case it works perfectly fine.
> Thanks,
> Tim


Thanks!
I checked on the Thermaltake web site, it now states:
_"Supports all 2.5" & 3.5" SATA I/II/III hard drives in ALL Capacities"_
Although most of the resellers still show 2 Tb as max capacity even though the part numbers are the same.
I'll give it a go.
Now to reread the "_Removing/Replacing/Copying Hard Drive of HR2* Receiver [Photo Tutorial]" _thread and brush up on my Linux skills.


----------



## Rich

dazed&confuzed said:


> Thanks!
> I checked on the Thermaltake web site, it now states:
> _"Supports all 2.5" & 3.5" SATA I/II/III hard drives in ALL Capacities"_
> Although most of the resellers still show 2 Tb as max capacity even though the part numbers are the same.
> I'll give it a go.
> Now to reread the "_Removing/Replacing/Copying Hard Drive of HR2* Receiver [Photo Tutorial]" _thread and brush up on my Linux skills.


This has been happening with TT docks and devices since we started using them. The only way to tell is to use them.

Rich


----------



## dazed&confuzed

Rich said:


> This has been happening with TT docks and devices since we started using them. The only way to tell is to use them.
> 
> Rich


Understand, I'll report back when (or if) I get the drive up and running.
MT


----------



## Rich

dazed&confuzed said:


> Understand, I'll report back when (or if) I get the drive up and running.
> MT


Thing is, how do you tell if you have a...say a 4TB drive in the dock and how do you know it's functioning at 4TBs instead of 3TBs? There's really no way to tell without putting the HDD on a computer and...I really don't know how you'd go about finding an answer. _*RunnerFL *_could probably tell us...

Rich


----------



## P Smith

Anyone who would install ex2fs driver under Windows, could check size of partitions the DVR's drive. Or load/use any Linux to check the HDD.


----------



## dazed&confuzed

Rich said:


> Thing is, how do you tell if you have a...say a 4TB drive in the dock and how do you know it's functioning at 4TBs instead of 3TBs? There's really no way to tell without putting the HDD on a computer and...I really don't know how you'd go about finding an answer. _*RunnerFL *_could probably tell us...
> 
> Rich





P Smith said:


> Anyone who would install ex2fs driver under Windows, could check size of partitions the DVR's drive. Or load/use any Linux to check the HDD.


Thought I would follow the instructions on copy/replacing a hard drive and then check it with Acronis True Image. It will be interesting to see if it can see the partition.
If not I'll boot Ubuntu on my system and see if the entire disk is partitioned or I have a media server running NAS4Free and I'll hook it up to that.
MT


----------



## RunnerFL

Rich said:


> Thing is, how do you tell if you have a...say a 4TB drive in the dock and how do you know it's functioning at 4TBs instead of 3TBs? There's really no way to tell without putting the HDD on a computer and...I really don't know how you'd go about finding an answer. _*RunnerFL *_could probably tell us...
> 
> Rich


The OS would report the partitions and sizes.


----------



## RunnerFL

P Smith said:


> Anyone who would install ex2fs driver under Windows, could check size of partitions the DVR's drive. Or load/use any Linux to check the HDD.


You don't need a driver at all. In fact I'd advise against installing one. If you're using Windows you can see the partitions and their sizes in the drive manager and with OS X you can see them in the Drive Utility. If you install drivers that allow you to read/write the data, as you suggest, you run the risk of messing things up.


----------



## P Smith

by default it's RO access


----------



## CBNAX

New to this form but i have been reading post for quite a while now. 
In the last few post the 4TB drive has been mentioned but most of you have stated your using a dock for it instead of just a plug and play configuration from the drive enclosure to the Genie( HR34.) I ask because I bought a drive from DVRDaddy for this purpose and while it installed great, it froze my DVR up after 10 minutes of playing. I tried resetting this 3 times and it froze in 5 min the subsequent times. I packed it up and sent it back. But if reading this last post correctly the WD 4TB red drive or green drive should work, correct?


----------



## CBNAX

I checked on Amazon for the Thermaltake dock and while there are a number of people that rave about it, there are also a number of reports of the dock stop working in 1-3 months. In all of the post I have read on here, no one has ever mentioned the BlackX dock stop working. I realize its mechanical and all mechanical things can fail but just curios if any of you have had to replace the dock?


----------



## P Smith

CBNAX said:


> I checked on Amazon for the Thermaltake dock and while there are a number of people that rave about it, there are also a number of reports of the dock stop working in 1-3 months. In all of the post I have read on here, no one has ever mentioned the BlackX dock stop working. *I realize its mechanical and all mechanical things can fail* but just curios if any of you have had to replace the dock?


Could be, if you will use it as workbench during developing SW for get/put info to different drives, inserting & removing to/from the dock;

totally different usage for DVR - you did insert HDD once and there are no more mechanical actions.

Actually, you should relay to the forum reports/review - this is relevant info for you. As you never know what people doing with the dock on other forums/sites.


----------



## RunnerFL

CBNAX said:


> I checked on Amazon for the Thermaltake dock and while there are a number of people that rave about it, there are also a number of reports of the dock stop working in 1-3 months. In all of the post I have read on here, no one has ever mentioned the BlackX dock stop working. I realize its mechanical and all mechanical things can fail but just curios if any of you have had to replace the dock?


The biggest problem with the dock is the power button. While using it on your Genie you won't be powering it on and off so the power button going bad really isn't an issue.


----------



## Rich

CBNAX said:


> New to this form but i have been reading post for quite a while now.
> In the last few post the 4TB drive has been mentioned but most of you have stated your using a dock for it instead of just a plug and play configuration from the drive enclosure to the Genie( HR34.) I ask because I bought a drive from DVRDaddy for this purpose and while it installed great, it froze my DVR up after 10 minutes of playing. I tried resetting this 3 times and it froze in 5 min the subsequent times. I packed it up and sent it back. But if reading this last post correctly the WD 4TB red drive or green drive should work, correct?


Yup, the red drive or green (now blue) drives should work. I'd stay away from those all-in-one eSATA devices. Lots of problems reported over the years with them.

Rich


----------



## Rich

CBNAX said:


> I checked on Amazon for the Thermaltake dock and while there are a number of people that rave about it, there are also a number of reports of the dock stop working in 1-3 months. In all of the post I have read on here, no one has ever mentioned the BlackX dock stop working. I realize its mechanical and all mechanical things can fail but just curios if any of you have had to replace the dock?


I've posted about this many times in several of the overly long eSATA threads. I don't expect anyone to actually read all the posts on those threads, too many, too confusing and as you go back the threads are filled with outdated information. But to address your question: Yeah, they do fail. Like most of the external devices they're cheap to buy and cheaply made and their performance suffers from the cheapness. The TT docks have always had one glaring weakness, the on/off button. Simple way to deal it? Don't use it. Use it and you'll find your dock will go dead when the button fails. I've had this happen several times. And to top off the problem, you can't jump the switch out so that it stays in the on position all the time (I couldn't figure out how to do it, anyway.) If you have to shut the dock down, pull the power cord rather than using the on/off switch.

Aside from the on/off switch, there is the problem of seating the HDD properly. Use a flashlight and examine the connector inside the dock. You can easily see how to properly seat the HDD. Put more simply, you can't just drop the HDD in the dock and expect it to work, the HDD needs to be securely seated. If you can easily lift the HDD out of the dock, you're not seating it correctly. You should expect the dock and HDD to be locked and if the HDD is lifted the dock should follow the HDD.

Once you get a dock working you can expect many hours of use from it. They really don't just fail.

Hope that answers your question. We've always recommended the docks because of their simplicity. Other devices (also cheap) have fans in them and that's just another point of failure. I've never had an HDD adversely affected by a dock, no dust buildup, no heat issues.

Rich


----------



## CBNAX

Thank you very much for the feedback. I'll be ordering the TT dock and the WD drive today from Amazon and get my Genie expanded.


----------



## Rich

CBNAX said:


> Thank you very much for the feedback. I'll be ordering the TT dock and the WD drive today from Amazon and get my Genie expanded.


Please let us know how you make out.

Rich


----------



## CBNAX

HI guys . I am happy to report that I got the TT dock and the WD red 4TB drive and all is working well. One thing I didn't realize and for any one else ordering it, is that the dock comes with a eSATA cable. I bought one that I currently don't need but will keep it because who knows I might upgrade my HR20 as well. Special thanks to Rich for all of your input.


----------



## Rich

CBNAX said:


> HI guys . I am happy to report that I got the TT dock and the WD red 4TB drive and all is working well. One thing I didn't realize and for any one else ordering it,_* is that the dock comes with a eSATA cable*_. I bought one that I currently don't need but will keep it because who knows I might upgrade my HR20 as well. Special thanks to Rich for all of your input.


Huh, forgot about that. On that subject, be careful with the eSATA cable. Plug it in and just leave it alone. I'm sure they're better than they were years ago, but I'd still leave it alone as much as possible. I don't recall ever having a bad one, had some suspicions, but I don't recall ever throwing one out. Needless to say, I've got quite a few of them.

Rich


----------



## dc_soccerdude

Been awhile since visiting this thread and in fact I think it was back in 2009 when the recommendation was an MX-1 and Barracuda 1.5TB drive for my HR20-700. Still working today with no issues and where we record the bulk of our shows since its not a daily watcher. I am now considering a Genie and had a few questions for external drives. 
1) Amazon has the TT Blacx which I see is recommended here but also has an Anker Docking station that has almost twice as many reviews and is rated slightly better. Just wondering if anyone had tried this as an option?
2) Also the drive I purchased back in 2009 was a 7200 RPM but I notice that most of the recommended drives are 5400 or are what WD calls Intellipower which I assume is there attempt to provide 7200 like performance at lower power/heat. Has anyone seen any issues using an Intellipower drive or for that matter even a 5400 RPM?
3) WD introduced the Purple supposedly designed for "Video Surveillance" that lists features such as specifically setup for 24/7 multi-stream use, reduced power/heat, etc. which sounds a lot like a DVR with multiple tuners. Marketing hype or does anyone think the $50-60 increase is worth the investment?

Thanks!!!


----------



## P Smith

2) most likely 5900 RPM; I don't recall any typical issue with 5400 or intelli- [5900] drives
3) as you did read it's targeting other market, so only you must decide will you spend the premium or not for your DVR; my take is if I've no money shortage, I would get the "purple" kind.


----------



## bpratt

I've used the Antec MX-1 on two HR21-700 for about 7 years. A little over a year ago I got a Genie HR44-500 and used an MX-1 with a 2TB WD green disk. When one of my HR21-700s failed, it was replaced with an HR24-500 and I moved the MX-1 and a 2TB disk onto it. I like the MX-1. The one on my Genie was purchased from EBay and has worked flawlessly since it was installed. You can still get them on EBay and I think they are one of the best disk enclosures ever made. I have tried both 5400 RPM and 7200 RPM WD drives and can tell no difference in performance.


----------



## dc_soccerdude

Just an update... Got the Genie HR44 today and ended up purchasing the following 4TB drive and docking station from Amazon.
2TT2443 - Western Digital WD AV-GP WD40EURX 4 TB 3.5quot; Internal Hard Drive 
Anker® USB 3.0 & eSATA to SATA External Hard Drive Docking Station for 2.5 or 3.5in HDD, SSD [4TB Support] 

The drive was slightly more than the normal RED or BLUE drives but made for high demand AV applications. WD claims it has circuitry/software better suited to multiple stream read/write. Probably a marketing ploy I fell for 

The Anker docking station was also slightly more than the TT BlacX but had better reviews and have to say I am impressed with the initial build quality. Feels pretty solid but have to say I like the looks of my old Antec MX1 best.

Both worked first time connecting to Genie so hopefully it will stay this way once we get around to putting it to the test!


----------



## Rich

dc_soccerdude said:


> 1) Amazon has the TT Blacx which I see is recommended here but also has an Anker Docking station that has almost twice as many reviews and is rated slightly better. Just wondering if anyone had tried this as an option?


Hmm. Still cheap and will probably remain as the main point of failure, but for $35 what have you got to lose? They may even have a decent return policy, something that has always bothered me about Thermaltake (they make you pay the return shipping).

I just put a WD Blue EXEX in a 24-100 that was having problems that I figured was a noisy, failing HDD. The EXEX runs at 7200 RPMs and is very quiet...so far. I'd give that model consideration. No more Green Caviars, they've merged into the Blue line.

Rich


----------



## Rich

bpratt said:


> I've used the Antec MX-1 on two HR21-700 for about 7 years. A little over a year ago I got a Genie HR44-500 and used an MX-1 with a 2TB WD green disk. When one of my HR21-700s failed, it was replaced with an HR24-500 and I moved the MX-1 and a 2TB disk onto it. I like the MX-1. The one on my Genie was purchased from EBay and has worked flawlessly since it was installed. You can still get them on EBay and I think they are one of the best disk enclosures ever made. I have tried both 5400 RPM and 7200 RPM WD drives and can tell no difference in performance.


Some of my best memories of the MX-1s were destroying them with a sledgehammer.

Rich


----------



## joshalee

Hello, Need some recommendations on new HD's. I have a HR20 and HR24 both hooked up to (2) WD20EURS 2TB on the MX-1 Antec's. Both are running low on space, I record a ton of basketball games. What's a solid HD choice and can I go to 4TB at least? If you have links on Amazon that would great.


----------



## RunnerFL

joshalee said:


> Hello, Need some recommendations on new HD's. I have a HR20 and HR24 both hooked up to (2) WD20EURS 2TB on the MX-1 Antec's. Both are running low on space, I record a ton of basketball games. What's a solid HD choice and can I go to 4TB at least? If you have links on Amazon that would great.


The HR2X's only support up to 2TB. Any 2TB previously mentioned in this thread would be a good choice.


----------



## joshalee

Thank you. I realized after posting online about 2TB. So I get two 2TB drives for under $80 on Amazon, it is still cheaper than signin up for Genie? I'm a longtime customer, so what would be my out of pocket monthly assuming the equipment was free.


----------



## mocarob

joshalee said:


> Thank you. I realized after posting online about 2TB. So I get two 2TB drives for under $80 on Amazon, it is still cheaper than signin up for Genie? I'm a longtime customer, so what would be my out of pocket monthly assuming the equipment was free.


What drives are you getting for $40? Those *new* ones from India aren't new..


----------



## Sflam2

Bought a 8TB Purple drive for my Genie, now can't find an enclosure. Bought the Sabrent USB 2.0/ESATA TO 3.5 Inch IDE or SATA/SATA II Aluminum Hard Drive Enclosure Case with Cooling Fan (EC-UEIS7), but after buying the spec says supports just up to 2TB. What is best enclosure for large drive - no RAID needed.


----------



## P Smith

Sflam2 said:


> Bought a 8TB Purple drive for my Genie, now can't find an enclosure. Bought the Sabrent USB 2.0/ESATA TO 3.5 Inch IDE or SATA/SATA II Aluminum Hard Drive Enclosure Case with Cooling Fan (EC-UEIS7), but after buying the spec says supports just up to 2TB. What is best enclosure for large drive - no RAID needed.


I would try it anyway, sometime internal controller already have support of 48bit addressing. Did you connect it to PC , to check the size?


----------



## Sflam2

Have not tried yet
based on your suggestion will give it a shot and report back
still would like to hear what others have used for 8TB drives


----------



## P Smith

Seems to me, you're the FIRST !


----------



## Rich

Sflam2 said:


> Bought a 8TB Purple drive for my Genie, now can't find an enclosure. Bought the Sabrent USB 2.0/ESATA TO 3.5 Inch IDE or SATA/SATA II Aluminum Hard Drive Enclosure Case with Cooling Fan (EC-UEIS7), but after buying the spec says supports just up to 2TB. What is best enclosure for large drive - no RAID needed.


I've got a 3TB in mine and it rarely goes above 40% full.

Rich


----------



## TomCat

Hi everyone; been away for a long time. I apologize that I have not kept up.

OK, now that I've thrown myself on the mercy of the court, I have a question.

I have WD20EZRX drives in four DVRs, from HR20 to HR24, and they have proven pretty stable. I am pretty sold on the WD green drives for DVRs. Next DVR that dies, I'll probably break down and get a Genie, but I have been reluctant to do that for a number of reasons. But that also raises a compatibility question.

I don't need more than 2 TB, but even that is not enough; even with all the brush trimming I've done, I am down to 4% on two of my drives, and am thinking of yanking one of them and replacing with a new drive.

But here is the real question. Amazon has the WD30EZRX for ~$90, and still has the WD20EZRX for ~$110. Seems like a no-brainer to get the 3TB drive, but am I making a mistake if I do?

All input appreciated, TIA.


----------



## RunnerFL

HR2X's will only support up to 2TB. You'd have to get a Genie to use 3TB or more.


----------



## TomCat

Kinda thought so. But, I don't need 3 TB, and that drive is 20% cheaper. It would still work and allow me to address 2 TB, right?

And the other Q, if I record (not cable) shows OTA, even thought that takes more space, I can move them to a Genie in the future. I think. Am I right am I wrong?


----------



## RunnerFL

TomCat said:


> Kinda thought so. But, I don't need 3 TB, and that drive is 20% cheaper. It would still work and allow me to address 2 TB, right?
> 
> And the other Q, if I record (not cable) shows OTA, even thought that takes more space, I can move them to a Genie in the future. I think. Am I right am I wrong?


If you put a drive bigger than 2TB on an HR2X it will only use 2TB of space, period.

Yes, OTA recordings take up more space.

If you put that 3TB drive on an HR2X, let it set it up as 2TB and then movie it to a Genie your Genie will only see 2TB unless the drive is repartitioned and reformatted. You'd have to first hook the drive up to a PC and destroy the 2TB partitioning and then hook it up to the Genie and let it format it.

Putting a 3TB drive on an HR2X is a complete waste of money and space.


----------



## TomCat

Ok, thank you for confirming a question I was about to ask, which is a reformat to get back to 3 TB. Kinda figured.

I think it is obvious that 2 TB would be the limit, as you've now confirmed that twice. The question was whether it would actually address 2 TB, or not at all. Reading between the lines, it seems like it might.

Hmmm. 'Complete' seems kind of final and absolute.

I don't see how its a waste of money if the WD30 drive is 20 bucks cheaper than the 2 TB. If I am stuck with 2 TB with either drive, then it seems like paying an extra 20 for essentially the same thing is the actual real waste of money. Ironic, sure. That's Amazon for you. But, serendipitous as well, if I can save a Jackson (or is it a 'Tubman' now?)

And, I don't see it as a waste of space, because that 3rd T is space I would never use anyway, making that argument moot. Of course, I still always clean my plate because of 'all the poor kids in China'. But I will not lay awake nights because there is a T of space I can't use that I don't really care about.

My real concern is whether the WD30 would be as reliable as the WD20. Are folks using this drive successfully?


----------



## Rich

TomCat said:


> Ok, thank you for confirming a question I was about to ask, which is a reformat to get back to 3 TB. Kinda figured.
> 
> I think it is obvious that 2 TB would be the limit, as you've now confirmed that twice. The question was whether it would actually address 2 TB, or not at all. Reading between the lines, it seems like it might.
> 
> Hmmm. 'Complete' seems kind of final and absolute.
> 
> I don't see how its a waste of money if the WD30 drive is 20 bucks cheaper than the 2 TB. If I am stuck with 2 TB with either drive, then it seems like paying an extra 20 for essentially the same thing is the actual real waste of money. Ironic, sure. That's Amazon for you. But, serendipitous as well, if I can save a Jackson (or is it a 'Tubman' now?)
> 
> And, I don't see it as a waste of space, because that 3rd T is space I would never use anyway, making that argument moot. Of course, I still always clean my plate because of 'all the poor kids in China'. But I will not lay awake nights because there is a T of space I can't use that I don't really care about.
> 
> My real concern is whether the WD30 would be as reliable as the WD20. Are folks using this drive successfully?


The Green drives are not being made anymore. They are now in the Blue line, same specs different model numbers and you get a choice of 7200 or 5400 speeds. I don't know if all the Blue Caviars have the 7200 speed option, but I just bought one that had both and chose the 7200 just to see how quiet it was. It's very quiet so far. Model number EZEX. Comparable to the Green EZRX in specs.

As to the 3TB drive, I've got one in my Genie and it's very quiet and dependable.

Rich


----------



## inkahauts

I'm. It sure if the genie would automatically reformat the drive to use all 3tb. I don't think so but never tried that. 

Also you can copy over recordings from one drive to another as long as it's for the same DVR. In the instance of over the air copying should allow movement to a new DVR as well. 

So copy the tb drive over the air recordings onto a 3 tb for a genie should be doable. 

And if you are running at 4% is say you do need more than 2tb.


----------



## Sflam2

P Smith said:


> I would try it anyway, sometime internal controller already have support of 48bit addressing. Did you connect it to PC , to check the size?


Decided to scrap the Sabrent drive, easy to return on Amazon in favor of placing my 8TB Purple in a new "ORICO USB3.0 & eSATA to SATA External Hard Drive Docking station for 2.5'' or 3.5'' HDD, SSD [Support 8TB]" also purchased from Amazon. So far so good - just first day. Is it using all 8 TB? who knows - only time may tell. Was easy setup.


----------



## Rich

Sflam2 said:


> Decided to scrap the Sabrent drive, easy to return on Amazon in favor of placing my 8TB Purple in a new "ORICO USB3.0 & eSATA to SATA External Hard Drive Docking station for 2.5'' or 3.5'' HDD, SSD [Support 8TB]" also purchased from Amazon. So far so good - just first day. Is it using all 8 TB? who knows - only time may tell. Was easy setup.


Yeah, I wish there was an easy way to see what you're getting out of a hard drive, but the only way I know of is to keep filling it up and go with the accepted standards for a 1TB drive and do the math to see what an 8TB drive should be. Off the top of my head, I don't remember what that standard is. For whatever reason, and you can't take this to the bank, I think a full 2TB will give about 500 hours of MPEG4 content depending on what that content is. In other words there really is no set standard it all depends on the content, but I'm sure someone will pop up with a standard of some sort that makes sense.

Rich


----------



## RunnerFL

Sflam2 said:


> Decided to scrap the Sabrent drive, easy to return on Amazon in favor of placing my 8TB Purple in a new "ORICO USB3.0 & eSATA to SATA External Hard Drive Docking station for 2.5'' or 3.5'' HDD, SSD [Support 8TB]" also purchased from Amazon. So far so good - just first day. Is it using all 8 TB? who knows - only time may tell. Was easy setup.


You could hook it up to a Linux box and verify partition sizes using 'sudo fdisk -l'. Do not hook it up to a Windows box.


----------



## P Smith

Sflam2 said:


> Decided to scrap the Sabrent drive, easy to return on Amazon in favor of placing my 8TB Purple in a new "ORICO USB3.0 & eSATA to SATA External Hard Drive Docking station for 2.5'' or 3.5'' HDD, SSD [Support 8TB]" also purchased from Amazon. So far so good - just first day. Is it using all 8 TB? who knows - only time may tell. Was easy setup.


You could check sizes of 8TB HDD partitions by connecting the enclosure to PC, Windows will not serve it, but you could see partitions and sizes - if Windows will ask to init the drive, say No or Cancel the request.


----------



## RunnerFL

P Smith said:


> You could check sizes of 8TB HDD partitions by connecting the enclosure to PC, Windows will not serve it, but you could see partitions and sizes - if Windows will ask to init the drive, say No or Cancel the request.


No, don't use Windows. It will trash the drive for sure.


----------



## P Smith

Don't worry - windows will not "trash" the HDD, if you'll not allow it do that. If you have Linux handy, then it would be preferable way.
If not - use Window|Manage|Disk Management and post its snapshot here.


----------



## RunnerFL

P Smith said:


> Don't worry - windows will not "trash" the HDD, if you'll not allow it do that. If you have Linux handy, then it would be preferable way.
> If not - use Window|Manage|Disk Management and post its snapshot here.


Windows will in fact trash the drive. Give it a shot, you'll see yourself. Oh wait, that's right, you don't ever try you own advice...


----------



## P Smith

Windows is not the culprit, it's a person who use it. My experience (as old certified MSCE) does cover versions from 3.1 to 8.


----------



## RunnerFL

P Smith said:


> Windows is not the culprit, it's a person who use it. My experience (as old certified MSCE) does cover versions from 3.1 to 8.


All a certification does is prove you can pass a test.

The moment you hook up a Linux drive to a Windows box the disk label is trashed, period.


----------



## P Smith

I see here mythological Linux panicked blindly scared behavior  ... sure I passed all tests, but adding to that my 20+ years experience in IT field with mostly WinPC environment ... no need to bring down your opponents if own knowledge is so poor, you'll not gather it the weird way.



RunnerFL said:


> All a certification does is prove you can pass a test.
> 
> *The moment you hook up a Linux drive to a Windows box the disk label is trashed, period.*


he he he ...


----------



## TomCat

Credentials are beside the point. Every 'credentialed' scientist says 'let's find out', and does an experiment, regardless of what their training and experience might tell them.

Hearsay doesn't cut it. What we need is for a credible report on an actual attempt. I'll wait right here.


----------



## RunnerFL

TomCat said:


> Credentials are beside the point. Every 'credentialed' scientist says 'let's find out', and does an experiment, regardless of what their training and experience might tell them.
> 
> Hearsay doesn't cut it. What we need is for a credible report on an actual attempt. I'll wait right here.


My statement is a credible report coming from someone who has experimented with several drives, numerous enclosures, all DirecTV DVRs and every major OS.

Your wait is over.


----------



## P Smith

I will give TP (test procedure):
- DUT: any SATA HDD size > 100 GB from your box of spare parts
- OS and PC: any with SATA port and OS XP and up
- preparation stage: create FAT or NTFS partition (if not there), check by Device Manager (make screenshot)
- - connect the HDD to DVR, it should initialize it, do record one or a couple short events, play them back
- verification stage: connect the HDD to PC - do not allow Windows initialize the drive again! - and verify partitioning under Device Manager (make screenshot)
- - you could make secondary test here: just install Ext2fs software and after mounting DVR HDD, you could navigate throughout its XFS file and folders by Win browser
- final test (of harmless the Windows OS), reconnect the HDD to DVR and play recorded events
- post your report here (to educate some inexperienced people)

Same TP could be execute for different versions of OS: Vista, 7, 8, 10 ...


----------



## TomCat

RunnerFL said:


> My statement is a credible report coming from someone who has experimented with several drives, numerous enclosures, all DirecTV DVRs and every major OS.
> 
> Your wait is over.


OK. Now I am completely convinced, simply because you said so. Whew! Load off my mind.


----------



## RunnerFL

TomCat said:


> OK. Now I am completely convinced, simply because you said so. Whew! Load off my mind.


Glad I could help.

If you'd take the time to read through this thread you'd see most everything I've tested and my results. And if you're super concerned with my tests and results you can always use the Search feature found in the upper right corner.


----------



## P Smith

it's not real experience, but superstitions of Linux-oid adept


----------



## hoss713

Sflam2 said:


> Decided to scrap the Sabrent drive, easy to return on Amazon in favor of placing my 8TB Purple in a new "ORICO USB3.0 & eSATA to SATA External Hard Drive Docking station for 2.5'' or 3.5'' HDD, SSD [Support 8TB]" also purchased from Amazon. So far so good - just first day. Is it using all 8 TB? who knows - only time may tell. Was easy setup.


Apologies if this is already answered...I tried and couldn't find an answer.

Will changing just the enclosure cause the HR44 to think it's a new drive and reformat it, thus losing all my recordings? I want to replace my Vantex NexStar with a Thermaltake BlacX to ease making backup copies of my drive.

Lorne


----------



## P Smith

Should not, as the "marriage"( involved the enclosure's controller, HDD itself) does not exist , it's just video encrypted by a key from smart card.
You could use any HDD in any DVR, but only original DVR will play for you the records (OTA recordings are not restricted).


----------



## STxFarmer

Just added this to my HR-44. Worked great as soon as I powered on the unit, formatted it and was up and running in a few minutes.

StarTech.com USB 3.0 eSATA Hard Drive Enclosure w/ UASP - Trayless 3.5 inches SATA III HDD Enclosure w/ USB 3.0 or eSATA (love the trayless design, just pop the drive in and close the door)

WD Purple 4TB Surveillance Hard Disk Drive

Noticed already that the video is playing smooth again, no longer pausing at random times while watching tv


----------



## Lord Vader

I don't know if this post belongs in the Genie thread or here, but I've been experiencing a lot of pixelation and freezing up on my HR44 Genie, which does not presently have an external HD connected to it. Rather than replacing this Genie, would getting an external drive and having the Genie rely on that eliminate all the pixelation and picture blocking issues, which I'm assuming are hard drive related, or could the issue be something else entirely?


----------



## WestDC

Before replacing the genie - I would suggest you move it to another location -You may have a connnection or connector at the current location.Stray brads or loose fittings can cause that as well -just a thought


----------



## Lord Vader

This problem existed at my apartment from which I recently moved, and it has continued at the house with a new dish installed, new cables, etc., so I doubt it is a connection issue.


----------



## WestDC

Lord Vader said:


> This problem existed at my apartment from which I recently moved, and it has continued at the house with a new dish installed, new cables, etc., so I doubt it is a connection issue.


I was just guessing


----------



## Lord Vader

I know, and I appreciate your suggestion.


----------



## Lord Vader

BTW, this is the second HR44 I've gone through on this account in the last 12 months. The previous one had the same problem, which got so bad I couldn't record or watch anything anymore. Now this one is giving me the same problem.


----------



## WestDC

That's really odd it good be (again) just guessing a power blovk issue - is the genie on a UPS? the genie power block maybe the issue if you have had brown outs or spikes I assume you brought that one from your old place - the power a/c may not be the current issue where you are now but a hold over problem you brought with you.

Only Fix possible fix is to replace the power cord from the genie (solid signal) if you don't waant to lose your recording or just replace the genie and put it on a ups - all my stuff is on a ups Reason: I live in rual area and we have a lot of issue's I don't use them when power is out for a long period but 3 - 5 min's is the norm here for a loss or dim out.


----------



## Delroy E Walleye

Also, see this thread

http://www.dbstalk.com/topic/222234-genie-losing-signal/

I wonder if the power block might've been my prob, but all (including SWiM) has always been on UPS.


----------



## Lord Vader

WestDC said:


> That's really odd it good be (again) just guessing a power blovk issue - is the genie on a UPS? the genie power block maybe the issue if you have had brown outs or spikes I assume you brought that one from your old place - the power a/c may not be the current issue where you are now but a hold over problem you brought with you.
> 
> Only Fix possible fix is to replace the power cord from the genie (solid signal) if you don't waant to lose your recording or just replace the genie and put it on a ups - all my stuff is on a ups Reason: I live in rual area and we have a lot of issue's I don't use them when power is out for a long period but 3 - 5 min's is the norm here for a loss or dim out.


It's connected to a fairly powerful UPS.


----------



## Drucifer

Sflam2 said:


> Decided to scrap the Sabrent drive, easy to return on Amazon in favor of placing my 8TB Purple in a new "ORICO USB3.0 & eSATA to SATA External Hard Drive Docking station for 2.5'' or 3.5'' HDD, SSD [Support 8TB]" also purchased from Amazon. So far so good - just first day. Is it using all 8 TB? who knows - only time may tell. Was easy setup.


Any problems with the ORICO dock? I'm planning to connect it to a HR24-200.


----------



## JW0914

Sflam2 said:


> Bought a 8TB Purple drive for my Genie, now can't find an enclosure. Bought the Sabrent USB 2.0/ESATA TO 3.5 Inch IDE or SATA/SATA II Aluminum Hard Drive Enclosure Case with Cooling Fan (EC-UEIS7), but after buying the spec says supports just up to 2TB. What is best enclosure for large drive - no RAID needed.


2TB limit applies to MBR, albeit both Windows (IIRC Windows 7 --> ) & Linux/BSD OSes have workarounds built in. If utilizing a GPT partition layout, there is no limit to disk or partition size.



Sflam2 said:


> Have not tried yet
> based on your suggestion will give it a shot and report back
> still would like to hear what others have used for 8TB drives


No issues whatsoever. As usual, ones the drive reaches around 66% filled, one will notice occasional lags in commands and smoothness of scrolling guides and DVR playlist.

Since the lag will always occur regardless of the HDD size being utilized, I have a hunch this is due to the eSATA interface and if installed internally, "should" hopefully disappear. I have an old Genie laying around with a 6TB HDD still paired to it, so I'm going to see if my hunch is correct or not, as I don't remember this ever occurring on an internal HDD being utilized for DVR unless it became 90% filled.

_Opening a genie will void the warranty, so if one is to do so, ensure it's on a unit you've already paid the $135 non-returned fee on, or do not care if you're charged the $135 fee whenever you need to return the box_



Rich said:


> Yeah, I wish there was an easy way to see what you're getting out of a hard drive, but the only way I know of is to keep filling it up and go with the accepted standards for a 1TB drive and do the math to see what an 8TB drive should be. Off the top of my head, I don't remember what that standard is. For whatever reason, and you can't take this to the bank, I think a full 2TB will give about 500 hours of MPEG4 content depending on what that content is. In other words there really is no set standard it all depends on the content, but I'm sure someone will pop up with a standard of some sort that makes sense.
> 
> Rich


The amount of 720p HD content per 1% of space used depends on whether one it utilizing an internal, or external, HDD for the DVR. This is because a 1TB internal drive only has ~750GB usable for DVR storage, however there's a lack of consistency when utilizing external HDDs for the DVR.

For example, I've used 3 different sizes of external HDDs: 4TB [desktop 5400RPM], 6TB [NAS 5400RPM], & 8TB [Surveillance 7200RPM]

*4TB* _[desktop 5400RPM]_ *@ 3.6TB usable*
_12hrs of 720p content per 1%_

[*]*6TB* _[NAS 5400RPM]_ *@ 5.45TB usable*

_24hrs of 720p content per 1% _

[*]*8TB* _[Surveillance 7200RPM]_ *@ 7.2TB usable*

_Still haven't been able to accurately track how many hours of 720p content per 1%, however I do know it's in the 24hr range_

As one can see, the amount per 1% doesn't make exponential sense, as a 6TB should only get 18hrs/1%, whereas the 8TB should get 24hrs/1%.

_The way I've calculated the amount of hours is be deleting content 1hr at a time until I see the counter gain 1%, at which point I continue deleting 1hr of content at a time until the counter gains an additional 1%_



Lord Vader said:


> BTW, this is the second HR44 I've gone through on this account in the last 12 months. The previous one had the same problem, which got so bad I couldn't record or watch anything anymore. Now this one is giving me the same problem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know if this post belongs in the Genie thread or here, but I've been experiencing a lot of pixelation and freezing up on my HR44 Genie, which does not presently have an external HD connected to it. Rather than replacing this Genie, would getting an external drive and having the Genie rely on that eliminate all the pixelation and picture blocking issues, which I'm assuming are hard drive related, or could the issue be something else entirely?
Click to expand...

This can be caused by an HDCP handshake mismatch, and unfortunately Tech Support has been improperly trained on how to troubleshoot/solve if it is an HDCP handshake issue.

Handshake issues will most often present as "audio dropouts" or sometimes video display issues. Ensure the source device having the issue has the latest firmware installed and has been reset (ie. powered down, unplugged for a few minutes, then powered back ON again)
 If the issue only involves the cable/sat box, HDMI handshake issues with cable/sat boxes are quite common (with any brand of Receiver/Replicator/Switch) and are usually always the fault of the cable/sat box not being designed to be connected to an HDMI repeater (ie. receiver, etc.) which is why they [generally] work without issue connected directly to the TV.

[*]*If it is a HDCP handshake mismatch issue, the following must be performed:*

*If utilizing:*
*Only a genie that is directly connected to the TV (i.e. HDMI passes through only two devices, the TV and the Genie)*
With all devices powered on, remove the HDMI cable at both ends from the Genie to the TV.

[*]*A home theater receiver, port replicator, or HDMI switch*

With all devices powered on, remove the two HDMI cables at both ends _(Genie to the receiver/replicator/switch and receiver/replicator/switch to the TV)_
_If utilizing a replicator or switch, unplug *all* HDMI cables connected to it_

[*]*Power off all devices & disconnect power cables from all devices for 15 minutes*
[*]*Reconnect HDMI & power cables to all devices*
[*]*Power on devices in the following order:*

*TV*
_ Wait 15 seconds, the proceed to 4.2_

[*]*Receiver/Replicator/Switch*

_Wait 15 seconds (per device in 4.2), then proceed to 4.3_

[*]*Genie*

[*]_Although this is the generally recommended order, in some instances, you may have better luck powering on the Receiver/Replicator/Switch first, then the TV, and finally the Genie ... bottom line if it's still not working, try a different power on sequence_



Drucifer said:


> Any problems with the ORICO dock? I'm planning to connect it to a HR24-200.


None, although the max HDD size supported will depend on it's OS [firmware], as I believe that's an older box [I could very well be wrong on the age]


----------



## P Smith

> *If it is a HDCP handshake mismatch issue, the following must be performed:*


It been pointed a few times: HDMI/HDCP are hot-plug interface/protocol - you don't need to power down a source and a target, just reconnect HDMI cable and it will re-negotiate same way as cold reboot !


----------



## JW0914

P Smith said:


> It been pointed a few times: HDMI/HDCP are hot-plug interface/protocol - you don't need to power down a source and a target, just reconnect HDMI cable and it will re-negotiate same way as cold reboot !


That's factually inaccurate... perhaps before disputing information, one should thoroughly research the information they're disputing.

While STB receivers may never have an issue while connected _directly_ to the TV with no other pass throughs, many home theater receivers will, and often do, experience HDCP handshake issues at some point. The more devices one has an HDMI signal passing through [replication], the higher the probability one will experience a HDCP handshake issue at least once.

Since you insist on not thoroughly researching what's factually accurate:

Denon's AVR4520CI not only has experienced HDCP handshake issues, I have personal experience with them occurring with the HR44 & HR54 while passing through the AVR4520CI
When they occur, the only recourse is to follow the steps in my prior reply to fix the issue.
Not only is this known at the consumer level by owners such as myself, it's also known by Denon Tech Support.
Additionally, where exactly do you believe the steps in my prior post came from? Out of the ether? Perhaps a hat? They came from the official Denon AVR4520CI thread on avsforums.com _(HDCP Handshake Troubleshooting is under *K.* or simply do a search for "HDCP")_

With that being said, it is entirely possible active HDMI cables may play into this (such as MonoPrice's RedMere technology). Regardless, the fact is HDCP handshake issues do occur, and simply unplugging both ends of the cable and reinserting will not cause a re-negotiation to take place along the _entire_ circuit in all situations.

This is simply basic common sense, as, in order for your supposition to be factually accurate, the way every single device with an HDMI port handles HDMI signals would need to be the same, both on the front end, and the backend, of how those signals are processed and what they're processed through on the PCB.
For example, take ethernet, which is hot swappable PnP:
If one swaps out a router connected to a modem, the modem won't register the new MAC of the new router until the modem's memory has been flushed via having it powered off for ~5 min.
Or take Sophos UTM (a UTM router OS), all routers and modems connected to the router box must be fully booted prior to Sophos UTM being powered on, otherwise it will not recognize the router(s) or modem(s). If a new router or modem is plugged into it while booted, Sophos UTM will not recognize either types of devices until it's been rebooted.

Is HDMI designed to be hot swappable PnP, yes; the caveat is in which way, and through which components, pass through devices route the HDMI signals internally and, in turn, how those devices then choose to replicate the signals, and finally how that information is written to internal memory components within the devices.


----------



## P Smith

if you do need do more then re-plug HDMI cable, then appeal to the mfg who cannot design/implement own device up to HDMI/HDCP specs


----------



## JW0914

P Smith said:


> if you do need do more then re-plug HDMI cable, then appeal to the mfg who cannot design/implement own device up to HDMI/HDCP specs


While I respect your perspective, it's simply a factually inaccurate perspective and point of view.

Furthermore, are you a PCB engineer working with audio/video PCB boards containing HDMI ports and protocols of 1.3+? If not, your above statement is ignorant.


----------



## top_speed

Hi Guys 

I updated to a HR54 yesterday from my prior HR44. I upgraded b/c I added 2 wireless clients and knowing I'd be locked in for 2 more years, I decided a HR54 "lock-in" would be advised. I got the upgrade by telling the agent I have a 4K set (which I do, but....). So long story short, once I found out I also needed a 4K slave (box) with 2 HDMI inputs (switched between types of HD programs within teh TV itself), I nixed the 4K additional box w the installer. I will now/just purchase a Samsung 4K that has the DTV capability built in, I can't deal with changing inputs every-time I want to watch a 4K one.

SO.......... during my install, the installer (and myself) moved/slid out my AV rack, in doing so we (can't blame just the installer) had my Rosewill esata w/ my WD30EURS hit the carpet. Case is fine, drive however won't work... the HR54 attempts to "fix" the drive errors found but fails after about 5 mins of trying.

Reading through this fine thread, I see the surveillance 8TB Purple drive as the "BIG" boy to get. Now, my prior 3TB was fine space wise, but I'm now thinking about the much bigger 4K program storage (future thinking!).

---Will the Purple 8TB work in my Rosewill?
---Noise from users? I know 7200 is spinning the platters pretty fast
---Or, should I can the mega storage idea until it's more stable in the industry (4K should/will promote this I'm thinking)

THANKS ahead of time for your expertise!


----------



## JW0914

top_speed said:


> Hi Guys
> 
> I updated to a HR54 yesterday from my prior HR44. I upgraded b/c I added 2 wireless clients and knowing I'd be locked in for 2 more years, I decided a HR54 "lock-in" would be advised. I got the upgrade by telling the agent I have a 4K set (which I do, but....). So long story short, once I found out I also needed a 4K slave (box) with 2 HDMI inputs (switched between types of HD programs within teh TV itself), I nixed the 4K additional box w the installer. I will now/just purchase a Samsung 4K that has the DTV capability built in, I can't deal with changing inputs every-time I want to watch a 4K one.
> 
> SO.......... during my install, the installer (and myself) moved/slid out my AV rack, in doing so we (can't blame just the installer) had my Rosewill esata w/ my WD30EURS hit the carpet. Case is fine, drive however won't work... the HR54 attempts to "fix" the drive errors found but fails after about 5 mins of trying.
> 
> Reading through this fine thread, I see the surveillance 8TB Purple drive as the "BIG" boy to get. Now, my prior 3TB was fine space wise, but I'm now thinking about the much bigger 4K program storage (future thinking!).
> 
> ---Will the Purple 8TB work in my Rosewill?
> ---Noise from users? I know 7200 is spinning the platters pretty fast
> ---Or, should I can the mega storage idea until it's more stable in the industry (4K should/will promote this I'm thinking)
> 
> THANKS ahead of time for your expertise!


I'd avoid WD drives like the plague as they're insanely loud during r/w (upwards of 20dB, especially during DVR playback), so I switched to a Seagate 8TB surveillance drive, which is impossible to hear. HDD size limitations are determined by the chipset of the external case, and you'll need to research on google to see what the reported max supported HDD size is for that enclosure. This is not definitive however, as majority of external cases support sizes greater than the advertised max size, as it ultimately depends upon how the firmware of the HDD interfaces with that chipset.

There does seem to be freezing/hanging issue once an 8TB drive exceeds ~70% capacity, resulting from the firmware of the HR44. This could be due to a variety of factors from a bug in the firmware to mechanical failure of the internal hdd, something I haven't had time to confirm yet. I have been contemplating replacing the internal HDD of the HR44 with a 256GB SSD, which should help whether it's mechanical issues with the internal HDD or not.
*As to your dropped HDD*
You'll need to grab S.M.A.R.T data and perform a long S.M.A.R.T test. To do so, I recommend utilizing smartctl via a Linux/BSD OS. Terminal [cli] commands would be:

_*First, grab the name of the device via:*_ ls /dev | grep ad && ls /dev | grep da && ls /dev | grep sd
Since different distros will assign disks with numbering beginning with _ad_, _da_, or _sd_ this searches /dev for all three (it will most likely be _sd_)

[*]_*Pull S.M.A.R.T data:*_ smartctl -a /dev/sda

_Where *sda* is the disk_

[*]_*Perform S.M.A.R.T long test*:_ smartctl -t long /dev/sda

_This is not a fast process and will take about a day to complete on a drive 4TB and larger, so ensure you run it on a PC that can be stationary and left on for at least 24 hours._

You'll want to pay attention to the following lines:

Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE UPDATED WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 100 100 010 Pre-fail Always - 0
187 Reported_Uncorrect 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 0
190 Airflow_Temperature_Cel 0x0022 067 057 045 Old_age Always - 33 (Min/Max 27/40)
191 G-Sense_Error_Rate 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 0
194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0022 033 043 000 Old_age Always - 33 (0 18 0 0 0)
197 Current_Pending_Sector 0x0012 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 0
198 Offline_Uncorrectable 0x0010 100 100 000 Old_age Offline - 0
199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count 0x003e 200 200 000 Old_age Always - 0
254 Free_Fall_Sensor 0x0032 001 001 000 Old_age Always - 0

SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1
Num Test_Description Status Remaining LifeTime(hours) LBA_of_first_error
# 1 Short offline Completed without error 00% 7580 -
# 2 Extended offline Completed without error 00% 7348 -

*Mechanical failure output:* _(will resemble)_

SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 10
Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE UPDATED WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
187 Reported_Uncorrect 0x0032 083 083 000 Old_age Always - 17
188 Command_Timeout 0x0032 100 253 000 Old_age Always - 47245361169
198 Offline_Uncorrectable 0x0010 100 100 000 Old_age Offline - 127
199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count 0x003e 200 200 000 Old_age Always  - 1557
254 Free_Fall_Sensor 0x0032 001 001 000 Old_age Always - 2

ATA Error Count: 14 (device log contains only the most recent five errors)
CR = Command Register [HEX]
FR = Features Register [HEX]
SC = Sector Count Register [HEX]
SN = Sector Number Register [HEX]
CL = Cylinder Low Register [HEX]
CH = Cylinder High Register [HEX]
DH = Device/Head Register [HEX]
DC = Device Command Register [HEX]
ER = Error register [HEX]
ST = Status register [HEX]
Powered_Up_Time is measured from power on, and printed as
DDd+hh:mm:SS.sss where DD=days, hh=hours, mm=minutes,
SS=sec, and sss=millisec. It "wraps" after 49.710 days.

Error 14 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 1069 hours (44 days + 13 hours)
When the command that caused the error occurred, the device was active or idle.

After command completion occurred, registers were:
ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
-- -- -- -- -- -- --
40 41 10 20 88 2f 4c Error: UNC at LBA = 0x0c2f8820 = 204441632

Commands leading to the command that caused the error were:
CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC Powered_Up_Time Command/Feature_Name
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---------------- --------------------
60 00 10 20 88 2f 0c 00 25d+10:17:01.636 READ FPDMA QUEUED
60 00 08 00 f0 cb 0c 00 25d+10:17:01.395 READ FPDMA QUEUED
60 00 18 e8 ef cb 0c 00 25d+10:17:01.122 READ FPDMA QUEUED
60 00 18 d0 ef cb 0c 00 25d+10:17:00.834 READ FPDMA QUEUED
60 00 10 20 6f 37 0c 00 25d+10:16:56.812 READ FPDMA QUEUED

Error 13 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 1069 hours (44 days + 13 hours)
When the command that caused the error occurred, the device was active or idle.

After command completion occurred, registers were:
ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
-- -- -- -- -- -- --
40 41 01 27 88 2f 4c Error: UNC at LBA = 0x0c2f8827 = 204441639

Commands leading to the command that caused the error were:
CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC Powered_Up_Time Command/Feature_Name
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---------------- --------------------
60 00 01 27 88 2f 0c 00 25d+08:44:55.711 READ FPDMA QUEUED
2f 00 01 10 00 00 20 00 25d+08:44:45.499 READ LOG EXT
60 00 01 26 88 2f 0c 00 25d+08:00:27.959 READ FPDMA QUEUED
2f 00 01 10 00 00 20 00 25d+08:00:17.492 READ LOG EXT
60 00 01 25 88 2f 0c 00 25d+07:16:07.779 READ FPDMA QUEUED

Error 12 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 1069 hours (44 days + 13 hours)
When the command that caused the error occurred, the device was active or idle.

After command completion occurred, registers were:
ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
-- -- -- -- -- -- --
40 41 01 26 88 2f 4c Error: UNC at LBA = 0x0c2f8826 = 204441638

Commands leading to the command that caused the error were:
CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC Powered_Up_Time Command/Feature_Name
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---------------- --------------------
60 00 01 26 88 2f 0c 00 25d+08:00:27.959 READ FPDMA QUEUED
2f 00 01 10 00 00 20 00 25d+08:00:17.492 READ LOG EXT
60 00 01 25 88 2f 0c 00 25d+07:16:07.779 READ FPDMA QUEUED
2f 00 01 10 00 00 20 00 25d+07:15:57.592 READ LOG EXT
60 00 01 24 88 2f 0c 00 25d+06:31:32.226 READ FPDMA QUEUED

Error 11 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 1069 hours (44 days + 13 hours)
When the command that caused the error occurred, the device was active or idle.

After command completion occurred, registers were:
ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
-- -- -- -- -- -- --
40 41 01 25 88 2f 4c Error: UNC at LBA = 0x0c2f8825 = 204441637

Commands leading to the command that caused the error were:
CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC Powered_Up_Time Command/Feature_Name
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---------------- --------------------
60 00 01 25 88 2f 0c 00 25d+07:16:07.779 READ FPDMA QUEUED
2f 00 01 10 00 00 20 00 25d+07:15:57.592 READ LOG EXT
60 00 01 24 88 2f 0c 00 25d+06:31:32.226 READ FPDMA QUEUED
2f 00 01 10 00 00 20 00 25d+06:31:21.755 READ LOG EXT
60 00 01 23 88 2f 0c 00 25d+05:47:12.161 READ FPDMA QUEUED

Error 10 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 1069 hours (44 days + 13 hours)
When the command that caused the error occurred, the device was active or idle.

After command completion occurred, registers were:
ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
-- -- -- -- -- -- --
40 41 01 24 88 2f 4c Error: UNC at LBA = 0x0c2f8824 = 204441636

Commands leading to the command that caused the error were:
CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC Powered_Up_Time Command/Feature_Name
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---------------- --------------------
60 00 01 24 88 2f 0c 00 25d+06:31:32.226 READ FPDMA QUEUED
2f 00 01 10 00 00 20 00 25d+06:31:21.755 READ LOG EXT
60 00 01 23 88 2f 0c 00 25d+05:47:12.161 READ FPDMA QUEUED
2f 00 01 10 00 00 20 00 25d+05:47:01.411 READ LOG EXT
60 00 01 22 88 2f 0c 00 25d+05:03:24.720 READ FPDMA QUEUED

Test_Description Status Remaining LifeTime(hours) LBA_of_first_error

If the disk is damaged, and it's under warranty, warranty it. If it's not, depending on the amount of sectors damaged, you can try certain dos or *nix programs that will attempt to salvage the drive by scanning every block on the HDD and marking bad blocks as bad, thereby preventing those blocks from ever being written to again. This is not a fast process and will likely take several days on a multi-terabyte HDD.

If you're planning on keeping the old receiver to watch recorded content on the damaged hdd, you can try data recovery via testdisk & photorec (both installable via the applicable package managers for Linux/BSD distros). You'll need to ensure the HDD is connected, but *not* mounted when testdisk or photorec is utilized, as well as ensuring you have a free HDD with enough free space available for the recovered content to be saved to.
*Normal disk output:*


Code:


[[email protected]] ~# smartctl -a /dev/ada0

smartctl 6.5 2016-05-07 r4318 [FreeBSD 10.3-STABLE amd64] (local build)
Copyright (C) 2002-16, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke, www.smartmontools.org

=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
Model Family:     Seagate NAS HDD
Device Model:     ST4000VN000-1H4168
Serial Number:    ********
LU WWN Device Id: * ****** *********
Firmware Version: SC46
User Capacity:    4,000,787,030,016 bytes [4.00 TB]
Sector Sizes:     512 bytes logical, 4096 bytes physical
Rotation Rate:    5900 rpm
Form Factor:      3.5 inches
Device is:        In smartctl database [for details use: -P show]
ATA Version is:   ACS-2, ACS-3 T13/2161-D revision 3b
SATA Version is:  SATA 3.1, 6.0 Gb/s (current: 6.0 Gb/s)
Local Time is:    Fri Sep 16 10:03:42 2016 CDT
SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
SMART support is: Enabled

=== START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED

General SMART Values:
Offline data collection status:  (0x00) Offline data collection activity
                                        was never started.
                                        Auto Offline Data Collection: Disabled.
Self-test execution status:      (   0) The previous self-test routine completed
                                        without error or no self-test has ever
                                        been run.
Total time to complete Offline
data collection:                (  107) seconds.
Offline data collection
capabilities:                    (0x73) SMART execute Offline immediate.
                                        Auto Offline data collection on/off support.
                                        Suspend Offline collection upon new
                                        command.
                                        No Offline surface scan supported.
                                        Self-test supported.
                                        Conveyance Self-test supported.
                                        Selective Self-test supported.
SMART capabilities:            (0x0003) Saves SMART data before entering
                                        power-saving mode.
                                        Supports SMART auto save timer.
Error logging capability:        (0x01) Error logging supported.
                                        General Purpose Logging supported.
Short self-test routine
recommended polling time:        (   1) minutes.
Extended self-test routine
recommended polling time:        ( 492) minutes.
Conveyance self-test routine
recommended polling time:        (   2) minutes.
SCT capabilities:              (0x10bd) SCT Status supported.
                                        SCT Error Recovery Control supported.
                                        SCT Feature Control supported.
                                        SCT Data Table supported.

SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 10
Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG     VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE      UPDATED  WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
  1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate     0x000f   114   099   006    Pre-fail  Always       -       78384440
  3 Spin_Up_Time            0x0003   093   091   000    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
  4 Start_Stop_Count        0x0032   099   099   020    Old_age   Always       -       2036
  5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   100   100   010    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
  7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x000f   075   060   030    Pre-fail  Always       -       40653425
  9 Power_On_Hours          0x0032   092   092   000    Old_age   Always       -       7686
 10 Spin_Retry_Count        0x0013   100   100   097    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
 12 Power_Cycle_Count       0x0032   100   100   020    Old_age   Always       -       105
184 End-to-End_Error        0x0032   100   100   099    Old_age   Always       -       0
187 Reported_Uncorrect      0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
188 Command_Timeout         0x0032   100   099   000    Old_age   Always       -       6
189 High_Fly_Writes         0x003a   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
190 Airflow_Temperature_Cel 0x0022   067   057   045    Old_age   Always       -       33 (Min/Max 27/40)
191 G-Sense_Error_Rate      0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
193 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   058   058   000    Old_age   Always       -       85611
194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0022   033   043   000    Old_age   Always       -       33 (0 18 0 0 0)
197 Current_Pending_Sector  0x0012   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
198 Offline_Uncorrectable   0x0010   100   100   000    Old_age   Offline      -       0
199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count    0x003e   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       0

SMART Error Log Version: 1
No Errors Logged

SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1
Num  Test_Description    Status                  Remaining  LifeTime(hours)  LBA_of_first_error
# 1  Short offline       Completed without error       00%      7580         -
# 2  Short offline       Completed without error       00%      7460         -
# 3  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%      7348         -
# 4  Short offline       Completed without error       00%      7196         -
# 5  Short offline       Completed without error       00%      7076         -
# 6  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%      6964         -
# 7  Short offline       Completed without error       00%      6836         -
# 8  Short offline       Completed without error       00%      6716         -
# 9  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%      6604         -
#10  Short offline       Completed without error       00%      6453         -
#11  Short offline       Completed without error       00%      6333         -
#12  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%      6220         -
#13  Short offline       Completed without error       00%      6095         -
#14  Short offline       Completed without error       00%      5975         -
#15  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%      5894         -
#16  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%      5862         -
#17  Short offline       Completed without error       00%      5734         -
#18  Short offline       Completed without error       00%      5614         -
#19  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%      5502         -
#20  Short offline       Completed without error       00%      5374         -
#21  Short offline       Completed without error       00%      5254         -

SMART Selective self-test log data structure revision number 1
 SPAN  MIN_LBA  MAX_LBA  CURRENT_TEST_STATUS
    1        0        0  Not_testing
    2        0        0  Not_testing
    3        0        0  Not_testing
    4        0        0  Not_testing
    5        0        0  Not_testing
Selective self-test flags (0x0):
  After scanning selected spans, do NOT read-scan remainder of disk.
If Selective self-test is pending on power-up, resume after 0 minute delay.


----------



## inkahauts

I have no issues with WD drives and they are quite for me. Been using several 4tb red drives for a while now.

I have to ask, what are you talking about with this two hdmi ports for your 4K tv with a c61k 4K client? I get the feeling you got bad info. That one client outputs everything on one hdmi port, 1080 and 4K and SD too... Heck even 3D, and most people recommend that over the internal RVU clients, although I think either is a good way to go with current Tv's today.


----------



## JW0914

inkahauts said:


> I have no issues with WD drives and they are quite for me. Been using several 4tb red drives for a while now.


It only occurs on drives 6TB and larger, with one not experiencing this on drives <5TB because drives >6TB had to be engineered differently to allow for higher densities. For example, a single 6TB Red [current version], in a fanless [passive], single bay case, created between 20 - 23dB of head noise at ~ 8ft from the case. In comparison, my 12 bay NAS server running 3 120mm fans at roughly the same distance is almost silent.

As stated previously, I originally thought I had a bad drive with mechanical failure, had it replaced by WD under warranty, and the new drive was just as loud.
Additionally, if one searches google for reviews of WD drives 6TB and larger, almost every review echos the same... the drives are insanely loud during read and/or write operations.
If one is looking to add a 6TB or larger HDD for a DVR drive, your best bet is to avoid WD and HGST (HGST's reviews had similar noise complaints). Since one is limited to a maximum length of 6ft between the receiver and the external case, unless you have an actively cooled enclosure that can be stored in a closed cabinet, you'll be happier avoiding WD and HGST drives 6TB and larger. 

Seagate employs two layers of sound dampening within their drives that exceed 6TB, of which WD and HGST do not [at least not on current versions, and hopefully will change on newer versions]
If one really wanted to use WD drives 6TB and larger, the only recourse to avoid the noise would be to replace the internal HDD with the 6/8/10TB drive, then store the receiver in a well ventilated closet/utility room. You'll lose ~250GB of space for the system partition, but this would allow one to exceed the 6ft limitation of eSATA.


----------



## inkahauts

Awh ok. Makes sense.


----------



## RunnerFL

JW0914 said:


> If one is looking to add a 6TB or larger HDD for a DVR drive, your best bet is to avoid WD and HGST (HGST's reviews had similar noise complaints).


One would expect the reviews and complaints to be the same/similar for drives all made by the same company....

I do however agree with you on staying away from WD. I use only Seagate in anything I do.


----------



## JW0914

*@RunnerFL* Good point =]


----------



## top_speed

Thanks everyone, good stuff and I can go Seagate, not dedicated to WD as my last 3TB drive was.

So looking, Seagate has 2 AV versions, the Skyhawk and Enterprise version. Will the normal Skyhawk suffice?


----------



## JW0914

top_speed said:


> Thanks everyone, good stuff and I can go Seagate, not dedicated to WD as my last 3TB drive was.
> 
> So looking, Seagate has 2 AV versions, the Skyhawk and Enterprise version. Will the normal Skyhawk suffice?


Go with the SkyHawk, as you'll pay substantially more for an enterprise drive, without ever utilizing the extra features you're paying for

higher workload rated for 550TBW/yr vs 180TBW/yr for SkyHawk [surveillance] drives
helium filled to reduce air resistance
higher r/w and RPM speeds
most enterprise drives function in excess of 10k RPM, with ~440MB/s r/w capabilities at the higher RPMs via SAS, whereas eSATA is SATA II, or a maximum theoretical speed of 187.5MB/s r/w [realistically ~150MB/s r/w]

[*]vibration resistance through sturdier casings and components
When looking to buy a HDD for any purpose, unless you have an SAS setup, and/or would utilize the datacenter features enterprise drives offer, it's best to steer clear of them.

Also, if you can recover the partition layout of your damaged HDD with testdisk, you can transfer the recovered content to a new hdd for use with the DVR it's paired with by following the DirecTV DVR HDD Transfer guide on my GitHub

This guide was pulled from a post on this forum, with it simply being condensed into a more cohesive 1 page HowTo _(URL for the post it was pulled from is listed in the top right corner of the guide)_


----------



## RunnerFL

top_speed said:


> Thanks everyone, good stuff and I can go Seagate, not dedicated to WD as my last 3TB drive was.
> 
> So looking, Seagate has 2 AV versions, the Skyhawk and Enterprise version. Will the normal Skyhawk suffice?


I use Enterprise for everything but then again I get them at the same price as a Skyhawk...


----------



## JW0914

*@RunnerFL* Do you actually use any of the enterprise HDD features?


----------



## RunnerFL

JW0914 said:


> *@RunnerFL* Do you actually use any of the enterprise HDD features?


My DVR's don't but the servers I have at home do and of course all 7000+ servers here at work do as well.


----------



## top_speed

Thinking of pulling the trigger on this 8TB drive?
Seagate Enterprise 3.5 HDD 8TB 7200RPM SATA 6Gbps 256 MB Cache OEM ST8000NM0055
*$339 Shipped*


----------



## JW0914

top_speed said:


> Thinking of pulling the trigger on this 8TB drive?
> Seagate Enterprise 3.5 HDD 8TB 7200RPM SATA 6Gbps 256 MB Cache OEM ST8000NM0055
> *$339 Shipped*


Great drive. I use the ST8000VX0002 Surveillance HDD, and if you do go with the enterprise drive, I'd be curious to see how many hours of hd content you get per 1%, as currently the numbers don't add up in comparison to the 6TB WD RED I had been using, or the 4TB HDD before that. 

I'm seeing ~20hrs per 1%, when the 6TB gave 24hrs of HD content per 1% (_like I said, not adding up_)
One should be seeing ~300hrs of HD content per 1TB with an external drive, with my 

4TB (3.68TB formatted) Seagate Barracuda seeing 12hrs per 1%
6TB (5.52TB formatted) WD RED seeing 24hrs per 1% (_baffling to say the least_)
 This makes me wonder if the discrepancy is due the differences in firmware between NAS and Surveillance drives, of which deal with data quite differently from one another

[*]Meaning an 8TB (7.36TB formatted) should be getting 24hrs per 1% if 300hrs per 1TB is accurate
One can't rely on DirecTV info on this, because their numbers are based on a 1TB HDD internal drive (5GB per 1hr 720p content), of which only ~700GB is user accessible for the DVR, due to the system partition.

This would seem to imply 1hr of 720p content is ~3.5GBs in size if the user partition is 700GB or ~3.4GBs in size if 680GB (a 230 or 250GB system partition)
 However, at 3.4GB/1hr gives ~274hrs/931GB [1TB formatted], which doesn't add up, yet ~3GB/1hr does at ~310hrs/931GB


----------



## top_speed

Bought the 8TB Seagate Enterprise ST8000NM0055

Due to arrive Monday 9/26/16.

I'll update on how she pairs up w my HR54 and my Rosewill ext case.


----------



## top_speed

BTW-
I went with the "Enterprise edition" because of the I/O (R-W) it was guaranteed to work with (plus 5 year warranty). And... I must admit, the helium filled/sealed cylinder chamber has my inquisitive side stirred up. 


Workload Rating
Skyhawk: 180TB/year Enterprise: 550TB/year
Warranty
Skyhawk: 3 years Enterprise: 5 years


----------



## P Smith

you forgot to post prices for both models ....


----------



## top_speed

P Smith said:


> you forgot to post prices for both models ....


I got my Enterprise 8TB drive for $339 incl shipping, no sales tax. The Skyhawk comparable was at least a 100 bucks less.

Here is the Mfgr comparison page on these 2 drives

*********************************
I have the Enterprise drv now installed in the Rosewell case. ^BUT^ I haven't booted up to it yet, still have yesterdays Vikings/Panthers game to catch-up on; as I was at a bike rally all weekend in Wytheville Virginia... funnnn! (sober up and dry out time now!) 

I Bleed Purple


----------



## top_speed

My observation....
My new 8TB Seagate Enterprise ST8000NM0055 vs. my past; 3TB Western Digital AV-WD30EURS (Green drive)

First the good:
I recorded (all in 1080i/p) the entire MNF game, 2 movies and a couple of "Going RV" & "Extreme RV" shows. Meter shows only 1% used up, seems not to move. Looks like mega storage room for sure  I can't speak on the last 25% left of course.

Now the bad:
Runs quite a bit warmer than the WD30EURS
Runs slightly louder than the WD30EURS

The unknown:
Running this in my same external Rosewell case, now paired up with my HR54, the activity (I/O) light seems to flicker much more often. Upon boot-up, I never saw a screen "Formatting Drive" like I did w my HR44/WD30EURS combination. SO, the unknown here could be that it formats "on the fly" and structures the drive in time, not all at once. If so, this would explain the additional drive light activity and the additional warmth omitted. I'm sure some experts here could color this in correctly!? BTW- I'm talking drive light activity with no recordings at that time, and I understand the buffer for realtime pause, RW etc., so my comparison is apples to apples... unless the new HR54 & Seagate were/are formatting in the first 10hrs prior to me recording stuff for test purposes.

Would I recommend this drive?
I don't know TBH at this point in time. I leave the one side panel off on the Rosewell (using both drives), the WD Green drive ran so cool, I never had to run the fan on the Rosewell, now w the Seagate, this seems this will be mandatory? (unless the above mentioned formatting was still taking place)... I'll judge this later tonight maybe!

TBC...............


----------



## JW0914

top_speed said:


> My observation....
> My new 8TB Seagate Enterprise ST8000NM0055 vs. my past; 3TB Western Digital AV-WD30EURS (Green drive)


_First the good:_
_I recorded (all in 1080i/p) the entire MNF game, 2 movies and a couple of "Going RV" & "Extreme RV" shows. Meter shows only 1% used up, seems not to move. Looks like mega storage room for sure  I can't speak on the last 25% left of course._

It should get ~24hr per 1%, however one would need to verify.
You probably already know that the only 1080p programming offered are the PPV movie channels in the 100's, and with the exception of the 4K channel, all HD channels broadcast at a max resolution of 720p. On the receiver, 1080i should never be utilized, as it provides a lower quality picture than 720p. This is due to interlacing [the "i"] versus progressive [the "p"] output. Interlacing essentially stitches two 540p steams together, alternating lines, to output 1080i. In settings, you can deselect 480i, 480p, and 1080i, thereby ensuring the receiver only ever outputs 720p or 1080p.
_Now the bad:_
_Runs quite a bit warmer than the WD30EURS_
_Runs slightly louder than the WD30EURS_

This is what I hinted at the other week... unless there's a need for an enterprise drive, where one will utilize the specific features gained with the drive, one really should steer clear due to the trade offs [compared to consumer drives]. The "enterprise" in the drive name mainly refers to servers, where heat and noise aren't an issue in a server room. Any drive that runs 7200RPM+ is going to generate ~2x the amount of heat than a 5400RPM or 5900RPM drive will (this is why OEMs no longer use 7200RPM drives in most laptops).
_The unknown:_

_Running this in my same external Rosewell case, now paired up with my HR54, the activity (I/O) light seems to flicker much more often. Upon boot-up, I never saw a screen "Formatting Drive" like I did w my HR44/WD30EURS combination. SO, the unknown here could be that it formats "on the fly" and structures the drive in time, not all at once. If so, this would explain the additional drive light activity and the additional warmth omitted. I'm sure some experts here could color this in correctly!? BTW- I'm talking drive light activity with no recordings at that time, and I understand the buffer for realtime pause, RW etc., so my comparison is apples to apples... unless the new HR54 & Seagate were/are formatting in the first 10hrs prior to me recording stuff for test purposes._


I'm not sure why it sometimes shows the formatting message, but sometimes does not; however, my best guess is it only shows the formatting screen when the HDD has a valid partition table. It formats the drive at first boot, partitioning it with 4 xfs partitions. The partitioning script takes a few seconds to run on an HDD with no partition table written, and would take a varying length of time depending on which cli partitioning program they're using if the HDD has a partition table and partitions that need to be wiped.
The partition layout of the external drive mirrors the partition layout of the internal, just without the system files on the system partition.

In regards to the i/o light, the HDD is always being written to since it records ~3hrs of the current channel, unless all 5 tuners are active (or the STB is off and no recordings scheduled during that time).

*Just an FYI:*
_WD Green drives, or any green drives for that matter, aren't intended for DVR usage [or NAS for that matter] and fail quite frequently when individuals utilize them for that, with performance related issues becoming apparent if looked for. If you've never had issues, great; however it is something to keep in mind. All HDDs are not alike... green and desktop drives are rated for only 8hrs of usage per day, whereas Enterprise, NAS, & Surveillance drives are rated for 24/7 usage._

_Green drives, while a desktop drive, utilize different firmware compared to normal desktop drives. When they're forced into a 24/7 usage cycle, performance issues will become apparent and drive failures after a year or two should be expected. Green drives come up every now and then on the FreeNAS forum, and members there are informed of the same information and urged to swap them out asap since they're not reliable in 24/7 use cases._


----------



## poppo

JW0914 said:


> *Just an FYI:*
> _WD Green drives, or any green drives for that matter, aren't intended for DVR usage [or NAS for that matter] and fail quite frequently when individuals utilize them for that, with performance related issues becoming apparent if looked for. If you've never had issues, great; however it is something to keep in mind. _


FWIW, I had been running WD Green drives on 3 different HR20s for over 5 years and never had any problems.


----------



## poppo

Rich said:


> Yeah, I wish there was an easy way to see what you're getting out of a hard drive, but the only way I know of is to keep filling it up and go with the accepted standards for a 1TB drive and do the math to see what an 8TB drive should be.


Can't you use the mobile app to see how much free space (in actual GBs) you have?


----------



## JW0914

poppo said:


> FWIW, I had been running WD Green drives on 3 different HR20s for over 5 years and never had any problem


Your case is either an anomaly, the DVRs are only seeing mild usage, or there are problems but they're simply not "noticeable" under your specific use case (S.M.A.R.T output would have to be pulled, as the STB will only register an HDD error code if certain S.M.A.R.T data lines are above a preset value). Green drives are not intended for DVRs, as they were manufactured to be utilized only for a couple hours every day (less than 8hrs in a 24hr period). Will Green drives work in a DVR, absolutely... but it's like E85 in a car that doesn't have the customizations required to allow it to use E85 in lieu of gasoline - while the car will run, over the long term it will cause problems.


----------



## P Smith

poppo said:


> Can't you use the mobile app to see how much free space (in actual GBs) you have?


nope


----------



## poppo

JW0914 said:


> Your case is either an anomaly, the DVRs are only seeing mild usage, .....


Mild usage??? It's always buffering, etc. And I don't think it's an anomaly. Many here have been using them without problems for just as long. Oh and BTW, I just double checked and they were put in service in Sept 2009. So it's actually been 7 years without issues. Go figure.


----------



## poppo

P Smith said:


> nope


Maybe we are talking two different things, but if I go to Settings - Mobile DVR - System Info on the mobile app, it shows me Storage = xxxc GB free of xxxx GB which is what is on the Genie.


----------



## P Smith

ONLY gENIE ...


----------



## poppo

P Smith said:


> ONLY gENIE ...


Not sure if I understand your response. The OPer was talking about an 8TB drive. So it would be on a Genie, no?


----------



## JW0914

poppo said:


> Mild usage??? It's always buffering, etc. And I don't think it's an anomaly. Many here have been using them without problems for just as long. Oh and BTW, I just double checked and they were put in service in Sept 2009. So it's actually been 7 years without issues. Go figure.


HDD only buffers when the unit is on (turned on for TV viewing).

Simply because a handful of people have a different outcome than the norm does not make it the norm... it makes it an anomaly. You're speaking from a subjective, not objective, perspective, and if you take the time to research your perspective, you will find it doesn't jive with the general experience people in a non-PC use case have.

Again, green drives are intended for ~5 - 6hrs of daily usage (_less than desktop drives, which are rated for 8hrs of usage per 24hr time period; whereas NAS, Surveillance, and Enterprise drives are rated for 24/7 usage )_.

Green drives are engineered differently and operate different firmware than normal desktop drives. Simply stating they operate without issues in a STB isn't even remotely accurate, as the only way you would know an issue has occurred is if platter or head damage had occurred due to g forces imposed on the unit, since that is one of the only ways the STB will throw a HDD failure error code. 
If you'd like to learn why green drives are not recommended for DVRs or NAS systems, searching a NAS forum, such as FreeNAS', would allow one to see the litany of issues green drives have outside the normal PC use case they were manufactured for


----------



## poppo

JW0914 said:


> HDD only buffers when the unit is on (turned on for TV viewing).


 And mine have power save off and run 24/7. Try again.

I'm not going to argue that there aren't better drives to use *today*. But back then those were pretty much the only ones available and what most people used. I'll bet most of those are also still running fine too.


----------



## JW0914

poppo said:


> And mine have power save off and run 24/7. Try again.


_Are you intentionally being thick?_

Re-read the last 3 posts I've made, as you seem to have a case of selective reading... either way, best of luck to you and your ignorance =]


----------



## poppo

JW0914 said:


> _Are you intentionally being thick?_
> _...best of luck to you and your ignorance_


Just stating the facts.

So you come along and after 1 month and 12 posts decide to just start calling people ignorant? :nono2:


----------



## JW0914

poppo said:


> Just stating the facts.
> 
> So you come along and after 1 month and 12 posts decide to just start call people ignorant? :nono2:


HDDs must have been invented only 12 posts ago.... I guess we're still in 1953? Or perhaps I'm only 47 days old?

Facts are not opinions and opinions are not facts. It is a fact green drives are only rated for ~5 - 6hrs of usage per 24hr period. It is a fact they have a fairly low MTBF. It is a fact majority of users who chose to utilize green drives in equipment that is on for more than the manufactured use time end up with HDD issues, of which are never going to be obviously apparent in a STB unless mechanical damage to the heads or platters occurs.

Perhaps before claiming one has no HDD issues, one should actually perform the required steps to determine if that presumption is accurate. Again, S.M.A.R.T data would need to be pulled, and a long test performed, to determine if your presumption is based in reality. Ignorance begets ignorance.

One other point... exactly how many green drives do you believe have been sold? Out of those, how many do you believe are used in STBs? The users of this forum make up less than .001% of green drive users, and if, as you believe, green drives operated without issue in STBs, then OEMs and providers would be using them since they're cheaper... the fact they don't should speak volumes.


----------



## poppo

JW0914 said:


> Or perhaps I'm only 47 days old?


Try discussing a topic without acting like you are.

I never said anything about the specs of the drive. I simply stated that despite what you said, those drives have worked fine for me for 7 years 24/7 in 3 different DVRs. It was a FWIW statement that you then proceeded to go on about how it was an anomaly, etc. You seem to think I don't know anything about hard drives and claim I am ignorant, without having a clue to my background.

In any case I'm done debating this with you. I'm going to go watch some shows on my anomalous DVRs. :rolling:


----------



## JW0914

poppo said:


> Try discussing a topic without acting like you are.
> 
> I never said anything about the specs of the drive. I simply stated that despite what you said, those drives have worked fine for me for 7 years 24/7 in 3 different DVRs. It was a FWIW statement that you then proceeded to go on about how it was an anomaly, etc. You seem to think I don't know anything about hard drives and claim I am ignorant, without having a clue to my background.


You seem to not understand what an anomaly is... or what facts are for that matter.


----------



## Rich

I see nothing wrong with the WD Green drives. They've been changed to Blue drives BTW. I've been using them and recommending them for years with very few problems. I've seen nothing in any posts that would change my mind. They work, they're reliable DVR drives, what more could you want? I've had many problems with the Seagate Barracuda drives. I switched to WD Greens and, as I said, have had few problems with them.

Rich


----------



## RunnerFL

poppo said:


> Can't you use the mobile app to see how much free space (in actual GBs) you have?


The "Mobile DVR" area of the DirecTV app will show you the free space on your Genie drive, yes.


----------



## RunnerFL

P Smith said:


> ONLY gENIE ...


It IS a Genie... keep up...


----------



## RunnerFL

Rich said:


> I see nothing wrong with the WD Green drives. They've been changed to Blue drives BTW. I've been using them and recommending them for years with very few problems. I've seen nothing in any posts that would change my mind. They work, they're reliable DVR drives, what more could you want? I've had many problems with the Seagate Barracuda drives. I switched to WD Greens and, as I said, have had few problems with them.
> 
> Rich


I consider the green, and blue, drives as "entry level". They may "work" in a DVR but they don't perform as well as, in WD terms, a Purple or Black, drive.

I always get a good laugh out of how WD had to resort to colors to get users to understand differences.

Here's a pretty good explanation of "Rainbow Caviar" as it is commonly called:
https://metanophilia.wordpress.com/2015/07/01/rainbow-caviar-the-different-colors-of-western-digital-hdds/


----------



## JW0914

When I was speaking about green drives, I wasn't specifically talking about WD Green, but drives that are manufactured and marketed as energy saving, "green" drives. I understand the perspectives @Rich and @RunnerFL are coming from, and while HDDs may mechanically be the same in how they work, they're not the same when it comes to the drive's firmware, which controls how it reads, writes and caches data. "Green" energy saving drives will work in a STB, just like a desktop drive will function within a server rack, but neither will do so efficiently or without stressing the drive more than it would be rated for. 

If someone utilizes a "green" drive, or even a desktop drive, within their STB, that doesn't make the individual, or their decision, wrong; they should simply be aware they're utilizing the drive in a way the drive's manufacturer never intended it to be used, which will likely cause the drive to fail prematurely, coupled with a higher likelihood for data corruption. If one finds the risks acceptable, wonderful; I simply want the individual to be fully informed so they can make an educated decision on what will work best for them.


----------



## poppo

JW0914 said:


> When I was speaking about green drives, I wasn't specifically talking about WD Green,


Ok. But you did say the following which seemed to speak directly about the WD Green model which is what I was specifically talking about. However, I do believe that the WD Green model was also touted to be energy efficient etc. But just because it can spin down when not being used (which never happens in a DVR) does not mean it can not keep running just fine constantly, as has been proven by more than just me.



JW0914 said:


> *Just an FYI:*
> _*WD Green drives,* or any green drives for that matter, aren't intended for DVR usage [or NAS for that matter] and fail quite frequently when individuals utilize them for that, with performance related issues becoming apparent if looked for. _


Nobody is disputing that there are drives these days that are better suited for DVR usage. However that does not mean that other drives can't/won't work just fine.

Oh, and BTW earlier you mentioned about the DVR not buffering when "turned off". But unless something has changed in newer models, it is a fact that all that does it turn off the AV outputs and the panel LEDS and that it continues to buffer regardless of whether it is on or off. Additionally DirecTV is always "pushing" content to the reserved partition. So the DVR "power save" mode is really a joke.

IMO keeping a drive cool is more important for maintaining a long lifespan than what the drive is specifically designed for.


----------



## JW0914

poppo said:


> _Ok. But you did say the following which seemed to speak directly about the WD Green model which is what I was specifically talking about. However, I do believe that the WD Green model was also touted to be energy efficient etc. But just because it can spin down when not being used (which never happens in a DVR) does not mean it can not keep running just fine constantly, as has been proven by more than just me._


Yes, when I mentioned "WD Green" specifically, then I was specifically talking about WD Green drives, and when I did not, and simply mentioned "green", that was in reference to all "green" drives (of which the WD Green is apart of). WD Green drives weren't "touted" as being energy efficient, that is what the drive actually is.

Again, you really should stop selectively reading... there's more to a green drive than just spinning down, specifically, it's firmware and how it deals with reading, writing, and caching data is different than that of other drives.

_Nobody is disputing that there are drives these days that are better suited for DVR usage. However that does not mean that other drives can't/won't work just fine._

_Oh, and BTW earlier you mentioned about the DVR not buffering when "turned off". But unless something has changed in newer models, it is a fact that all that does it turn off the AV outputs and the panel LEDS and that it continues to buffer regardless of whether it is on or off. Additionally DirecTV is always "pushing" content to the reserved partition. So the DVR "power save" mode is really a joke._

_IMO keeping a drive cool is more important for maintaining a long lifespan than what the drive is specifically designed for._

I've specifically stated, multiple times, that yes, green drives will work within a STB; however, it's utilizing the drive in a way the drive's manufacturer never intended it to be used, which will likely cause the drive to fail prematurely, coupled with a higher likelihood for data corruption. If, as you believe, green drives function perfectly fine in a STB, cable/sat providers would be configuring the STBs with green drives, as they're cheaper; the fact they're not should speak volumes.

Again, the HDD only buffers when the unit is actually on for TV viewing; This is obvious from the fact when you turn the unit on for TV viewing, you cannot rewind the channel it's currently set to.

You're welcome to whatever opinion you wish to have, but that doesn't mean your opinion is inline with the facts.


----------



## Rich

JW0914 said:


> When I was speaking about green drives, I wasn't specifically talking about WD Green, but drives that are manufactured and marketed as energy saving, "green" drives. I understand the perspectives @Rich and @RunnerFL are coming from, and while HDDs may mechanically be the same in how they work, they're not the same when it comes to the drive's firmware, which controls how it reads, writes and caches data. "Green" energy saving drives will work in a STB, just like a desktop drive will function within a server rack, but neither will do so efficiently or without stressing the drive more than it would be rated for.
> 
> If someone utilizes a "green" drive, or even a desktop drive, within their STB, that doesn't make the individual, or their decision, wrong; they should simply be aware they're utilizing the drive in a way the drive's manufacturer never intended it to be used, which will likely cause the drive to fail prematurely, coupled with a higher likelihood for data corruption. If one finds the risks acceptable, wonderful; I simply want the individual to be fully informed so they can make an educated decision on what will work best for them.


I've got several 24s with Green drives in them and most have been in service for over 5 years. I've based my opinions on that time frame. I really think "risk" isn't a part of those opinions.

Rich


----------



## Rich

poppo said:


> Ok. But you did say the following which seemed to speak directly about the WD Green model which is what I was specifically talking about. However, I do believe that the WD Green model was also touted to be energy efficient etc. But just because it can spin down when not being used (which never happens in a DVR) does not mean it can not keep running just fine constantly, as has been proven by more than just me.
> 
> _*Nobody is disputing that there are drives these days that are better suited for DVR usage.*_ However that does not mean that other drives can't/won't work just fine.
> 
> Oh, and BTW earlier you mentioned about the DVR not buffering when "turned off". But unless something has changed in newer models, it is a fact that all that does it turn off the AV outputs and the panel LEDS and that it continues to buffer regardless of whether it is on or off. Additionally DirecTV is always "pushing" content to the reserved partition. So the DVR "power save" mode is really a joke.
> 
> IMO keeping a drive cool is more important for maintaining a long lifespan than what the drive is specifically designed for.


When I started using the Green drives, they seemed to be the best. I do realize things have changed since then. I have to say the Green drives have beaten my expectations.

Rich


----------



## Rich

JW0914 said:


> Yes, when I mentioned "WD Green" specifically, then I was specifically talking about WD Green drives, and when I did not, and simply mentioned "green", that was in reference to all "green" drives (of which the WD Green is apart of). WD Green drives weren't "touted" as being energy efficient, that is what the drive actually is.
> 
> Again, you really should stop selectively reading... there's more to a green drive than just spinning down, specifically, it's firmware and how it deals with reading, writing, and caching data is different than that of other drives.
> 
> _Nobody is disputing that there are drives these days that are better suited for DVR usage. However that does not mean that other drives can't/won't work just fine._
> 
> _Oh, and BTW earlier you mentioned about the DVR not buffering when "turned off". But unless something has changed in newer models, it is a fact that all that does it turn off the AV outputs and the panel LEDS and that it continues to buffer regardless of whether it is on or off. Additionally DirecTV is always "pushing" content to the reserved partition. So the DVR "power save" mode is really a joke._
> 
> _IMO keeping a drive cool is more important for maintaining a long lifespan than what the drive is specifically designed for._
> 
> I've specifically stated, multiple times, that yes, green drives will work within a STB; however, it's utilizing the drive in a way the drive's manufacturer never intended it to be used, which will likely cause the drive to fail prematurely, coupled with a higher likelihood for data corruption. If, as you believe, green drives function perfectly fine in a STB, cable/sat providers would be configuring the STBs with green drives, as they're cheaper; the fact they're not should speak volumes.
> 
> Again, the HDD only buffers when the unit is actually on for TV viewing; This is obvious from the fact when you turn the unit on for TV viewing, you cannot rewind the channel it's currently set to.
> 
> You're welcome to whatever opinion you wish to have, but that doesn't mean your opinion is inline with the facts.


Mmm. I thought you were referring to the WD Green HDDs. I've never used any other "green" drives.

Rich


----------



## poppo

JW0914 said:


> Again, you really should stop selectively reading...
> ...
> Again, the HDD only buffers when the unit is actually on for TV viewing; *This is obvious from the fact when you turn the unit on for TV viewing, you cannot rewind the channel it's currently set to[b/].
> ....
> You're welcome to whatever opinion you wish to have, but that doesn't mean your opinion is inline with the facts.
> 
> *


*Actually it has been you that has the selective reading by ignoring real life usage (not just mine).

You most certain can turn the HR20 off and it will have a full buffer when you turn it back on. I just tried to again to make sure an update did not change that (changed the channel to dump the buffer, turned the DVR off, waited 15 minutes and turned it back on and had 15 minutes of buffer that I could go back in). However, I also tried it on my HR54 and did loose the buffer. Most likely they now just do a buffer dump when you turn the unit on to bring you back up to live in case people had turned off the unit while behind live as to not confuse them. While I can not prove it, I'll bet the unit is still actually buffering, but just dumping it when powered on. And DirecTV is always pushing data to the reserved partition too. They don't do that just when the unit is on. And of course recordings will still take place when the unit is off. I always though it was senseless to turn it off anyway other than to turn off the panel LEDs. My test with the HR54 just gave me another reason to leave that on 24/7 too, just as I had been doing with my HR20s since I first got them.

The facts are what people have actually experienced, and not just what a piece of paper says.

But again, I am done with this silly debate. The people that have been around here long enough know what works and what doesn't. It's really that simple.*


----------



## inkahauts

Rich said:


> I've got several 24s with Green drives in them and most have been in service for over 5 years. I've based my opinions on that time frame. I really think "risk" isn't a part of those opinions.
> 
> Rich


Some people have terrible luck with Seagate drives. But western digital works great for them. Others is exact opposite where Western Digital is awful and Seagate is perfect. There's just so many variables.


----------



## JW0914

*@poppo *Each is welcome to whatever opinions they wish to hold, however that does not make them facts or even based on facts. Choosing to believe one's own opinions over that of what facts, such as "a piece of paper", show, that doesn't make one smart, it makes one an idiot. How it is in the 21st century people in general have come to a conclusion facts equal opinions and opinions equal facts is mind boggling, imbecilic idiocy.

Simply saying "I've never noticed an issue on my STBs with green drives" means nil, as STBs have no way of demonstrating an issue with a HDD, unless a platter or head error results in the STB reporting a critical error code. The only way one could accurately say they have no HDD issues is by pulling S.M.A.R.T data and running a long S.M.A.R.T test, something that seems to not be understood.

Regardless, one is welcome to their own opinions, and the idiocy of believing opinions matter more than facts; so best of luck to you, as I've wasted enough of my time repeating the same facts over an over again. Cheers =]


----------



## poppo

JW0914 said:


> *@poppo*
> ...imbecilic idiocy.
> 
> Simply saying "I've never noticed an issue on my STBs with green drives" means nil, as *STBs have no way of demonstrating an issue with a HDD*, unless a platter or head error results in the STB reporting a critical error code. The only way one could accurately say they have no HDD issues is by pulling S.M.A.R.T data and running a long S.M.A.R.T test, something that seems to not be understood.


There you go again with the childish name calling. A tactic used when someone can not have a civilized debate or is losing it. :nono2:

If a hard drive is going bad in a DVR, you will know it by a variety of symptoms. That is something that you can not seem to comprehend. I have been using a DVR since I was a beta tester for Tivo before they were available to the public. So I have nearly 20 years of first hand experience with them, and with being able to identify a failing drive by the symptoms you will experience. And there were a lot more drive failures in the early DVR days than later on.

Like I said earlier, I don't need to look at the S.M.A.R.T. data to tell if is still working. Can that tell me the drive is getting closer to failing? Sure. But I don't care. Either it's working or it's not. And mine and others still are with these drives. It REALLY is that simple.


----------



## inkahauts

JW0914 said:


> *@poppo *Each is welcome to whatever opinions they wish to hold, however that does not make them facts or even based on facts. Choosing to believe one's own opinions over that of what facts, such as "a piece of paper", show, that doesn't make one smart, it makes one an idiot. How it is in the 21st century people in general have come to a conclusion facts equal opinions and opinions equal facts is mind boggling, imbecilic idiocy.
> 
> Simply saying "I've never noticed an issue on my STBs with green drives" means nil, as STBs have no way of demonstrating an issue with a HDD, unless a platter or head error results in the STB reporting a critical error code. The only way one could accurately say they have no HDD issues is by pulling S.M.A.R.T data and running a long S.M.A.R.T test, something that seems to not be understood.
> 
> Regardless, one is welcome to their own opinions, and the idiocy of believing opinions matter more than facts; so best of luck to you, as I've wasted enough of my time repeating the same facts over an over again. Cheers =]


Plenty of people have done those tests on green drives and not had issues.

You seem to think that facts are only what the spec sheet says based on the manufacturer. It's not. It's also a fact that many of these kinds of drives survive and excel in a DVR. I've pulled many and done full tests and they where in perfect condition so I use them for a computer now. (Pulled to upgrade size or deactivation of actual dvr) That's also a fact. Neither of these facts mean the other can't be true. It's always possible for something to work beyond its planned abilities with regularity. In my experience that's actually the general rule in fact.

Ask the rovers we have on mars that where supposed to last months and have lasted many years...


----------



## tylorert

I just use a Quantum Fireball 8GB


----------



## RunnerFL

tylorert said:


> I just use a Quantum Fireball 8GB


8GB isn't much space. You must have to keep pretty much up to live on all your shows...


----------



## top_speed

First up, I appreciate all the input and comments on my 8TB Enterprise upgrade from my WD Caviar 3TB Green drive.... I feel bad i kinda started a feisty debate here, sorry, not intended!

So, I believe it was "Rich" here who back a few years ago suggested the WD 3TB Green drive. I used this drive for almost 3 years with zero issues or problems. Thanks Rich! I was very happy with this drive until it fell off my AV shelf during my HR54 upgrade (hence my upgrade).

I totally understand this WD30EURS Green was made for a desktop non AV application, but at that time in writing (and Rich's suggestion), it was still a market of question with our usage, and some were even trying real desktop drives with choppy video results etc.

So all good, the drive lasted (for me) with 3 users constantly hammering the I/O on a nightly basis (Wife and I work, daughter school).

-------------------------------

**Update**

I've been using the Seagate Enterprise 8TB now for a couple of weeks and felt I should follow-up.

- The drive light (R/W activity) has diminished quite a bit since the first day of powering her up w the HR54.
- Seems to run a tad cooler too! (testing this with shutting the fan off in the Rosewell case). For possible longevity, I do run the fan however.

If this Enterprise 8TB drive has the longevity that is suggested, I'd defiantly recommend this!

Cheers mates!


----------



## Rich

inkahauts said:


> Some people have terrible luck with Seagate drives. But western digital works great for them. Others is exact opposite where Western Digital is awful and Seagate is perfect. There's just so many variables.


The only Seagate drives I've used were the Barracudas. Noisy, so noisy I couldn't put them in the MB. I read about the WD drives and bought a Green Caviar drive just to try it. I've bought and installed a couple WD drives that are a different color and they run seamlessly. I think my 44 has a Red Caviar drive in it. I bought that because it was on sale.

Rich


----------



## Rich

top_speed said:


> First up, I appreciate all the input and comments on my 8TB Enterprise upgrade from my WD Caviar 3TB Green drive.... I feel bad i kinda started a feisty debate here, sorry, not intended!
> 
> So, I believe it was "Rich" here who back a few years ago suggested the WD 3TB Green drive. I used this drive for almost 3 years with zero issues or problems. Thanks Rich! _*I was very happy with this drive until it fell off my AV shelf during my HR54 upgrade (hence my upgrade).*_
> 
> I totally understand this WD30EURS Green was made for a desktop non AV application, but at that time in writing (and Rich's suggestion), it was still a market of question with our usage, and some were even trying real desktop drives with choppy video results etc.
> 
> So all good, the drive lasted (for me) with 3 users constantly hammering the I/O on a nightly basis (Wife and I work, daughter school).
> 
> -------------------------------
> 
> **Update**
> 
> I've been using the Seagate Enterprise 8TB now for a couple of weeks and felt I should follow-up.
> 
> - The drive light (R/W activity) has diminished quite a bit since the first day of powering her up w the HR54.
> - Seems to run a tad cooler too! (testing this with shutting the fan off in the Rosewell case). For possible longevity, I do run the fan however.
> 
> If this Enterprise 8TB drive has the longevity that is suggested, I'd defiantly recommend this!
> 
> Cheers mates!


Yet another reason why I don't like external drives. I've lost two HDDs that fell to the floor with their external device. I've only got one external drive left, on a 24-200 which will not take an internal drive easily. When that HR fails (if it ever does) I'll be done with externals.

Rich


----------



## top_speed

Rich said:


> Yet another reason why I don't like external drives. I've lost two HDDs that fell to the floor with their external device. I've only got one external drive left, on a 24-200 which will not take an internal drive easily. When that HR fails (if it ever does) I'll be done with externals.
> 
> Rich


So Rich, you're cracking the seal on your DTV receiver then and installing internally?

I did this on my HR21-700 many a year ago, slickest way for sure but I was always worried about them (DTV) seeing the seal as broken on return/upgrade and giving me grief or charge-backs.


----------



## Rich

top_speed said:


> So Rich, you're cracking the seal on your DTV receiver then and installing internally?
> 
> I did this on my HR21-700 many a year ago, slickest way for sure but I was always worried about them (DTV) seeing the seal as broken on return/upgrade and giving me grief or charge-backs.


I own all my D* HRs, including my 44. I bought them all so I could put large internal drives in them without worrying about the TOS.

Rich


----------



## top_speed

1-Month

5 NFL Ticket HD games and about 12; 1-hr HD shows like Hell's Kitchen, a few 1/2hr HD shows and the Seagate Enterprise 8TB drive now finally shows 98% Free (2% used).

Insane. I only have the (past) WD 3TB Green drive for comparison however.

With fan running 24/7 on; drive is very cool. With fan off, Id' say quite warm, but hot would be an overstatement.

**VERY HAPPY**


----------



## JW0914

It appears the HR44, likely the HR54 as well, has a max supported size of 6TB via eSATA. It will run an 8TB drive fine, except when it gets to just over 75% full (1.8625TB free), it believes there's no free space left. Someone will need to confirm, however, to ensure it's not simply an issue with the current firmware for the HR44. This would make sense since a 6TB HDD is 5.59TB usable and 1.8625 x 3 = 5.5875TB

This would provide a reason as to why the hours of HD content per 1% has not matched what it should for an 8TB drive... the unit either believes it's a 6TB, or has been configured to treat any drive >6TB as a 6TB drive
Since it's near impossible to find basic in depth information about the BroadCom AV SoC it utilizes and exactly what features it's been configured with (DirecTV does not make full usage out of the SoC & it's capabilities, for example, as listed on BroadCom's website).
While there are true tech manuals that exist for these boxes, they're well over $1K
I will be testing whether this is the same via SATA or not, however it appears a recent firmware update has caused issues with the external drive being recognized with a valid filesystem, let alone partitions (HDD appears as RAW unallocated space within 3 different linux distros i know have xfs support, 2 of which I used earlier this year to partition the drive). Since I was able to mount the HDD's partitions earlier in the year, it appears a firmware update is the likely cause since the HR44 recognizes the drive as having four partitions.

At first I assumed I hadn't gotten the power disconnected fast enough after a graceful shutdown (reboot via menu), however that would only prevent one from mounting partitions... the HDD is listed as having no partitions under /dev,
It makes me wonder if DirecTV has started doing what Microsoft has been with Xbox HDDs by flipping certain sectors, and plan on checking a hex editor when I can find some free time to disconnect it again.


----------



## P Smith

> While there are true tech manuals that exist for these boxes, they're well over $1K


usually such doc doesn't selling alone, it's delivering to R&D dept under NDA (printed or via access to secured web sites)

you are mounting FUD too much, actually ... SoC is not the reason anyway - FW [Linux] is


----------



## JW0914

P Smith said:


> usually such doc doesn't selling alone, it's delivering to R&D dept under NDA (printed or via access to secured web sites)
> 
> you are mounting FUD too much, actually ... SoC is not the reason anyway - FW [Linux] is


FUD?

I came across an engineering company which sells engineering tech service manuals for DirecTV HR44s and HR54s... my only point being there's very little documentation that exists about these boxes.

From checking out what little information BroadCom offers about their AV SoCs & their chipsets, the SoC appears to play a role in combination with the FW in regards to storage and storage compatibility. There's no way to know for certain since the SoC comes with a wide variety of features DirecTV has chosen to not utilize or disable (USB features for example).


----------



## Rich

Mmm. I think the Genies have been tested at well over 6TBs, perhaps _*RunnerFL*_ could weigh in here?

Rich


----------



## JW0914

Tested in what way?

Unless one has recorded over 5.6TB of video, and actually verified that from a Linux distro, that would be the only way to demonstrate what's at play.

If this has been done, what is the hours to percentage ratio?

While it's possible the SATA port could offer full usage >5.6TB, that's unlikely according to the SoC specs which processes both ports over the same SATA II interface. The eSATA on HR44s will recognize any drive larger than 5.59TB [formatted], but will register the drive as full once it hits 5.59TB or just over 75% full on a 8TB drive.

As I mentioned above, this does make sense with what's known thus far:
There was no ratio increase of amount of hours per 1% when going from a 6TB to a 8TB.
At 66% full, the box begins to lag, which is exactly what's experienced with the OEM drive when it gets to ~91% full (at 66%, there's only 9% left of usable space at 5.59TB)
When it got to 76% full around a week ago, I received an on screen error that there was no more usable space, even though the storage bar was at 24% free


----------



## Rich

JW0914 said:


> Tested in what way?
> 
> Unless one has recorded over 5.6TB of video, and actually verified that from a Linux distro, that would be the only way to demonstrate what's at play.
> 
> If this has been done, what is the hours to percentage ratio?
> 
> While it's possible the SATA port could offer full usage >5.6TB, that's unlikely according to the SoC specs which processes both ports over the same SATA II interface. The eSATA on HR44s will recognize any drive larger than 5.59TB [formatted], but will register the drive as full once it hits 5.59TB or just over 75% full on a 8TB drive.
> 
> As I mentioned above, this does make sense with what's known thus far:
> There was no ratio increase of amount of hours per 1% when going from a 6TB to a 8TB.
> At 66% full, the box begins to lag, which is exactly what's experienced with the OEM drive when it gets to ~91% full (at 66%, there's only 9% left of usable space at 5.59TB)
> When it got to 76% full around a week ago, I received an on screen error that there was no more usable space, even though the storage bar was at 24% free


I'm pretty sure _*RunnerFL*_ has had way more than 6TBs on his Genies, I wish he would jump in here.

Rich


----------



## RunnerFL

JW0914 said:


> It appears the HR44, likely the HR54 as well, has a max supported size of 6TB via eSATA.


Incorrect. Max size on an HR44 is 16TB, tested and in use in my home. Ran just fine on my HR34 prior to that.

HR54 is a different story. It's eSATA is a bit different and won't support RAID other than RAID1 so you can't really get higher than about 8TB, affordably, to test.


----------



## RunnerFL

JW0914 said:


> Tested in what way?
> 
> Unless one has recorded over 5.6TB of video, and actually verified that from a Linux distro, that would be the only way to demonstrate what's at play.


It has been done. Read through the thread. I know I posted my findings.


----------



## JW0914

Do you have another logical explanation for why an HR44 with an 8TB drive believes the disk is filled to capacity at exactly the size limit of a 6TB drive?

This isn't some hypothetical situation... this is what is currently occurring, so obviously it's not incorrect. 

I didn't post this to have someone troubleshoot this, I posted it as an FYI.
One can choose to ingest it or ignore it, but it doesn't change the fact
that an HR44 using a 8TB Seagate Surveillance drive is currently applying a max size equal to that of a 6TB drive (5.59TB), and outputting errors that the HDD is filled to capacity with 24% free
that the hour to percentage ratio on this 8TB drive is equal to that of the prior 6TB WD Red I was using. 


Additionally, a supposition that because a user was able to record more than 5.6TB on a drive equal to or larger than 8TB at some point in the past may not be a relevant data point _unless that was performed under one of the firmware versions released in the last 10 months _(about the length of time the 8TB drive has been used for)_. _

RAID configurations can't be compared to a single disk scenario for a multitude of reasons, least of all being it's an apples and oranges comparison.
Doesn't matter if one looks at software or hardware, not to mention an enclosure with a built in port multiplier, as I could be wrong, but I don't believe the HR44 has a built in eSATA port multiplier

The only way I could logically see this occurring on an HR44 that does support DVR utilization above 5.59TB is if there is a configuration/settings file [or a multitude of them] within the HR44 filesystem that could have been copied over from the 6TB to the 8TB when I did the swap. This doesn't seem likely for a number of reasons, with the most straightforward being I performed the same copy procedure to upgrade from a 4TB to a 6TB and had no issues with full utilization of the 6TB drive.

If a user is going to take the time to craft a reply, at least have the logic to recognize the three facts I've now stated three times in three separate posts... refusing to do so is simply a waste of the user's time, as well as everyone else's, thereby making it pointless to craft a reply at all.


----------



## RunnerFL

JW0914 said:


> Do you have another logical explanation for why an HR44 with an 8TB drive believes the disk is filled to capacity at exactly the size limit of a 6TB drive?
> 
> This isn't some hypothetical situation... this is what is currently occurring, so obviously it's not incorrect.
> 
> I didn't post this to have someone troubleshoot this, I posted it as an FYI.
> One can choose to ingest it or ignore it, but it doesn't change the fact
> that an HR44 using a 8TB Seagate Surveillance drive is currently applying a max size equal to that of a 6TB drive (5.59TB), and outputting errors that the HDD is filled to capacity with 24% free
> that the hour to percentage ratio on this 8TB drive is equal to that of the prior 6TB WD Red I was using.
> 
> 
> Additionally, a supposition that because a user was able to record more than 5.6TB on a drive equal to or larger than 8TB at some point in the past may not be a relevant data point _unless that was performed under one of the firmware versions released in the last 10 months _(about the length of time the 8TB drive has been used for)_. _
> 
> RAID configurations can't be compared to a single disk scenario for a multitude of reasons, least of all being it's an apples and oranges comparison.
> Doesn't matter if one looks at software or hardware, not to mention an enclosure with a built in port multiplier, as I could be wrong, but I don't believe the HR44 has a built in eSATA port multiplier
> 
> The only way I could logically see this occurring on an HR44 that does support DVR utilization above 5.59TB is if there is a configuration/settings file [or a multitude of them] within the HR44 filesystem that could have been copied over from the 6TB to the 8TB when I did the swap. This doesn't seem likely for a number of reasons, with the most straightforward being I performed the same copy procedure to upgrade from a 4TB to a 6TB and had no issues with full utilization of the 6TB drive.
> 
> If a user is going to take the time to craft a reply, at least have the logic to recognize the three facts I've now stated three times in three separate posts... refusing to do so is simply a waste of the user's time, as well as everyone else's, thereby making it pointless to craft a reply at all.


No logical explanation at all. Could be the drive that's used, could be that aren't seeing something correctly, etc. You're the only one to ever report something like this and I know others have filled up big drives before.

RAID CAN be compared to single disk because it is presented to the OS as a single disk. The OS doesn't see the RAID, it only sees the device it is being presented as. It's not apples to oranges at all. It's Red Delicious to Granny Smith at most.


----------



## inkahauts

JW0914 said:


> Do you have another logical explanation for why an HR44 with an 8TB drive believes the disk is filled to capacity at exactly the size limit of a 6TB drive?
> 
> This isn't some hypothetical situation... this is what is currently occurring, so obviously it's not incorrect.
> 
> I didn't post this to have someone troubleshoot this, I posted it as an FYI.
> One can choose to ingest it or ignore it, but it doesn't change the fact
> that an HR44 using a 8TB Seagate Surveillance drive is currently applying a max size equal to that of a 6TB drive (5.59TB), and outputting errors that the HDD is filled to capacity with 24% free
> that the hour to percentage ratio on this 8TB drive is equal to that of the prior 6TB WD Red I was using.
> 
> 
> Additionally, a supposition that because a user was able to record more than 5.6TB on a drive equal to or larger than 8TB at some point in the past may not be a relevant data point _unless that was performed under one of the firmware versions released in the last 10 months _(about the length of time the 8TB drive has been used for)_. _
> 
> RAID configurations can't be compared to a single disk scenario for a multitude of reasons, least of all being it's an apples and oranges comparison.
> Doesn't matter if one looks at software or hardware, not to mention an enclosure with a built in port multiplier, as I could be wrong, but I don't believe the HR44 has a built in eSATA port multiplier
> 
> The only way I could logically see this occurring on an HR44 that does support DVR utilization above 5.59TB is if there is a configuration/settings file [or a multitude of them] within the HR44 filesystem that could have been copied over from the 6TB to the 8TB when I did the swap. This doesn't seem likely for a number of reasons, with the most straightforward being I performed the same copy procedure to upgrade from a 4TB to a 6TB and had no issues with full utilization of the 6TB drive.
> 
> If a user is going to take the time to craft a reply, at least have the logic to recognize the three facts I've now stated three times in three separate posts... refusing to do so is simply a waste of the user's time, as well as everyone else's, thereby making it pointless to craft a reply at all.


Ok, can you supply a little more info?

What did you do to add the hard drive? Did you plug it in, and just let it format and then record everything fresh? Or did you move previous recordings from another disc to this new disk? And if you did that, what method did you use, because there are several ways but only a couple allow you to actually expand the capacity to that of the larger drive. And maybe that didn't work right for some reason this time.

Also, its entirely possible both of you are right, and one of you is seeing an anomaly of some sort. And based on a few other people doing what Runner has done, I think your system is creating the anomaly at the moment, so its an interesting puzzle to look at right now...


----------



## JW0914

inkahauts said:


> Ok, can you supply a little more info?
> 
> What did you do to add the hard drive? Did you plug it in, and just let it format and then record everything fresh? Or did you move previous recordings from another disc to this new disk? And if you did that, what method did you use, because there are several ways but only a couple allow you to actually expand the capacity to that of the larger drive. And maybe that didn't work right for some reason this time.
> 
> Also, its entirely possible both of you are right, and one of you is seeing an anomaly of some sort. And based on a few other people doing what Runner has done, I think your system is creating the anomaly at the moment, so its an interesting puzzle to look at right now...


*Sequence of Events*

Around 11 months ago, I began with a 6TB WD Red that was formatted and partitioned by the HR44 directly_ [no transfer of recordings)_
After a day of usage, the r/w noise was so loud, I warrantied the drive, and, upon receiving the 2nd WD Red, transferred recordings from the first WD Red to the replacement WD Red.
Due to the insane amount of r/w noise, after ~3 weeks I switched from the 6TB WD Red to a 8TB Seagate Surveillance drive, transferring the recordings from the 6TB WD Red to the 8TB Seagate Surveillance.
After about a week of using the 8TB, I realized the hours to percentage ratio wasn't what it should be
I knew at that point the ratio was similar to the 6TB, confirming this suspicion about a week ago, using an old genie with a 6TB drive still paired to it

~2 months ago, I hit 66% full and noticed an immediate lag in browsing through lists, whether it be the guide, viewing all channels or programming for a single channel, or the DVR, as well as operations such as setting a program to record, deleting a recording, etc. 
As soon as enough content is deleted, putting it at or above 35% free, the lag disappears.
This is inline with an OEM drive, where lag begins at around the 91% full mark, and of which is the 9% free mark for a 6TB drive

A little over a week ago, I selected a program to record and was given an error that there was no free space left, even though it showed 24% free
After deleting content to where it was at 26% free, I could set programs to record
24% free would be 0% free on a 6TB drive


*Process to Transfer Recordings*

Booted to Parted Magic_ [most recent version] _on the server I normally run FreeNAS on
 FreeBSD doesn't have xfs support built in

Performed a clean shutdown of the HR44, selecting restart from the menu, then disconnecting power as soon as all LEDs on the front panel turn off
Installed 8TB HDD, plugged HR44 back in
Once HR44 was fully booted, performed #2 again
Ran the following commands, where: *sda: *_New_ HDD, *sdb: *_Old_ HDD

mkdir /mnt/fap && mkdir /mnt/hr44

mount -t xfs -o rtdev=/dev/sda3 /dev/sda2 /mnt/fap
mount -t xfs -o rtdev=/dev/sdb3 /dev/sdb2 /mnt/hr44

xfsdump -J - /mnt/hr44 | xfsrestore -J -p 60 - /mnt/fap

umount /mnt/hr44 && umount /mnt/fap
I'm not opposed to doing a RAID setup, since many choose to do so, but I was hoping to avoid it since I wanted a single HDD case that was passively cooled.


----------



## P Smith

just in case, the software *Parted Magic* is not free, but will cost you $9


----------



## JW0914

P Smith said:


> just in case, the software *Parted Magic* is not free, but will cost you $9


I know =] I pay the yearly subscription fee [$49/year I think)


----------



## Rich

inkahauts said:


> Ok, can you supply a little more info?
> 
> What did you do to add the hard drive? Did you plug it in, and just let it format and then record everything fresh? Or did you move previous recordings from another disc to this new disk? And if you did that, what method did you use, because there are several ways but only a couple allow you to actually expand the capacity to that of the larger drive. And maybe that didn't work right for some reason this time.
> 
> Also, its entirely possible both of you are right, and _*one of you is seeing an anomaly of some sort*_. And based on a few other people doing what Runner has done, I think your system is creating the anomaly at the moment, so its an interesting puzzle to look at right now...


I really doubt that _*RunnerFL*_ is wrong. He's been one of the most reliable members for years. Meanwhile...

Rich


----------



## RunnerFL

JW0914 said:


> *Sequence of Events*
> 
> Around 11 months ago, I began with a 6TB WD Red that was formatted and partitioned by the HR44 directly_ [no transfer of recordings)_
> After a day of usage, the r/w noise was so loud, I warrantied the drive, and, upon receiving the 2nd WD Red, transferred recordings from the first WD Red to the replacement WD Red.
> Due to the insane amount of r/w noise, after ~3 weeks I switched from the 6TB WD Red to a 8TB Seagate Surveillance drive, transferring the recordings from the 6TB WD Red to the 8TB Seagate Surveillance.
> After about a week of using the 8TB, I realized the hours to percentage ratio wasn't what it should be
> I knew at that point the ratio was similar to the 6TB, confirming this suspicion about a week ago, using an old genie with a 6TB drive still paired to it
> 
> ~2 months ago, I hit 66% full and noticed an immediate lag in browsing through lists, whether it be the guide, viewing all channels or programming for a single channel, or the DVR, as well as operations such as setting a program to record, deleting a recording, etc.
> As soon as enough content is deleted, putting it at or above 35% free, the lag disappears.
> This is inline with an OEM drive, where lag begins at around the 91% full mark, and of which is the 9% free mark for a 6TB drive
> 
> A little over a week ago, I selected a program to record and was given an error that there was no free space left, even though it showed 24% free
> After deleting content to where it was at 26% free, I could set programs to record
> 24% free would be 0% free on a 6TB drive
> 
> 
> *Process to Transfer Recordings*
> 
> Booted to Parted Magic_ [most recent version] _on the server I normally run FreeNAS on
> FreeBSD doesn't have xfs support built in
> 
> Performed a clean shutdown of the HR44, selecting restart from the menu, then disconnecting power as soon as all LEDs on the front panel turn off
> Ran the following commands, where: *sda: *_New_ HDD, *sdb: *_Old_ HDD
> 
> mkdir /mnt/fap && mkdir /mnt/hr44
> 
> mount -t xfs -o rtdev=/dev/sda3 /dev/sda2 /mnt/fap
> mount -t xfs -o rtdev=/dev/sdb3 /dev/sdb2 /mnt/hr44
> 
> xfsdump -J - /mnt/hr44 | xfsrestore -J -p 60 - /mnt/fap
> 
> umount /mnt/hr44 && umount /mnt/fap
> I'm not opposed to doing a RAID setup, since many choose to do so, but I was hoping to avoid it since I wanted a single HDD case that was passively cooled.


How did the 8TB drive get formatted?


----------



## JW0914

RunnerFL said:


> How did the 8TB drive get formatted?


By the HR44... forgot to add those steps, so it would have been:

2. Performed a clean shutdown of the HR44, selecting restart from the menu, then disconnecting power as soon as all LEDs on the front panel turn off
3. Installed 8TB HDD, plugged HR44 back in
4. Once HR44 was fully booted, performed #2 again
5.Ran the following commands, where: *sda: *_New_ HDD, *sdb: *_Old_ HDD

_I've updated the original post with the additional 2 steps_


----------



## inkahauts

It'd be work but... put the new drive back in the computer and see what the sizes are for each partition. I believe there's usually four but one should be close to 90% of the drive. One is as I recall around 10% and then a couple other small ones. 

I'd be curios what you actually see right now after copying and using for a while.


----------



## JW0914

inkahauts said:


> It'd be work but... put the new drive back in the computer and see what the sizes are for each partition. I believe there's usually four but one should be close to 90% of the drive. One is as I recall around 10% and then a couple other small ones.
> 
> I'd be curios what you actually see right now after copying and using for a while.


That's the other thing... I went to swap the internal drive for the external a little over a week ago, and since I needed to copy the system partition files to the external drive's system partition (which is empty, but still created so it mirrors the internal drive), I connected both to PartedMagic, with the external drive showing as unformatted and raw within PartedMagic (internal drive showed the 4 partitions, of which the external drive should also have). 

I performed a clean shutdown 4 different times and I could not get the external drive to have a recognizable partition layout in PartedMagic. 
TestDisk reports the superblock was corrupted and was unable to find a backup after 8 hours of searching the drive... but if the SuperBlock is corrupted how is the HR44 still recognizing the drive as usable, let alone able to find a SuperBlock backup? This is the first time I've had TestDisk report something as corrupted and not been able to fix it.
I haven't had time to troubleshoot that since, and I'm hoping to get to it this weekend. The other thing I was thinking about is transferring the content to a 10TB RAID setup, wiping the 8TB's partition table, having the HR44 format it again, then copying everything back.

If I end up doing the latter, I'll grab the SuperBlock backup locations and save them in case the above occurs again


----------



## inkahauts

My first guess is your having trouble timing the shutdown right when you pull the disc. I had massive issues once because I didn't pull power at the right moment and the computer had the same issue. I found unneeded to wait till just before the lights came back up rather than just as the lights went out. It need to finish house cleaning or it's all screwy. And To double check I assume you are doing a menu restart not a rbr. They are basically the same except for when you want to copy like this. Rbr will not work right. 

Also I can't recall but I don't believe you should be copying all the other partitions. Let the receiver fill them in on its own. That could be what's causing the issue too. I believe you should only copy the actual recordings. You'd have to look at the original gparted instructions to check on what you should do I can't recall but do not copy more than it says too. It will rebuild everything you don't copy on its own.


----------



## JW0914

inkahauts said:


> My first guess is your having trouble timing the shutdown right when you pull the disc. I had massive issues once because I didn't pull power at the right moment and the computer had the same issue. I found unneeded to wait till just before the lights came back up rather than just as the lights went out. It need to finish house cleaning or it's all screwy. And To double check I assume you are doing a menu restart not a rbr. They are basically the same except for when you want to copy like this. Rbr will not work right.
> 
> Also I can't recall but I don't believe you should be copying all the other partitions. Let the receiver fill them in on its own. That could be what's causing the issue too. I believe you should only copy the actual recordings. You'd have to look at the original gparted instructions to check on what you should do I can't recall but do not copy more than it says too. It will rebuild everything you don't copy on its own.


I was wondering if I was getting the timing wrong as well. I am doing a restart via: Menu -> Settings & Help -> Settings -> Reset -> Restart Receiver

In regards to the second part, I think you misunderstood... Rather than having an external case, I was simply going to replace the internal drive with the external drive. In order to this, the content from the internal drive's system partition would need to be copied to the external drive's system partition (of which is empty and contains no data, but is created so that external drives mirror the partition layout of the internal drive)


----------



## RunnerFL

inkahauts said:


> It'd be work but... put the new drive back in the computer and see what the sizes are for each partition. I believe there's usually four but one should be close to 90% of the drive. One is as I recall around 10% and then a couple other small ones.
> 
> I'd be curios what you actually see right now after copying and using for a while.


Somewhere on here, in this actual thread I think, I posted all the partition sizes for all of the drive sizes I tried. I believe the partition set aside for DTV was 10%.


----------



## RunnerFL

JW0914 said:


> I was wondering if I was getting the timing wrong as well.


If your timing was off you wouldn't be able to mount the drive in your other machine, it would be locked.

If the HR44 partitioned the 8TB drive it should be partitioned correctly. I was mainly checking to make sure you didn't do a dd copy from the 6TB to the 8TB.


----------



## JW0914

RunnerFL said:


> If your timing was off you wouldn't be able to mount the drive in your other machine, it would be locked.
> 
> If the HR44 partitioned the 8TB drive it should be partitioned correctly. I was mainly checking to make sure you didn't do a dd copy from the 6TB to the 8TB.


If the timing was off, it should still be recognized with a partition table right? PartedMagic showed it as a single black, raw partition block; yet as soon as I reinstalled it in it's case and booted the HR44 back up, it was recognized and recordings accessible.

I'm not all that familiar with xfs or DirecTV's root filesystem, but is it possible something is corrupted on the 8TB drive, but not corrupted enough to the degree it's inaccessible to the HR44, but is to the degree it's inaccessible by GParted?


----------



## CBNAX

i believe what you are running into is a restriction on your copy command procedure. You are dumping the file system from the first device to the second device. That file system is setup to be th 5.59TB that a 6TB device formats to. When you do that dump you are carring all the characteristics of that file system inclusive of size. So even though you have an 8TB drive that you formated to be 8TB in the HR44, when you do the copy , you are wiping all of out and re-establishing the 6tb file system. What you are actually looking for to get the size right is to do a file by file transfer and not a filesystem transfer.


----------



## JW0914

CBNAX said:


> i believe what you are running into is a restriction on your copy command procedure. You are dumping the file system from the first device to the second device. That file system is setup to be th 5.59TB that a 6TB device formats to. When you do that dump you are carring all the characteristics of that file system inclusive of size. So even though you have an 8TB drive that you formated to be 8TB in the HR44, when you do the copy , you are wiping all of out and re-establishing the 6tb file system. What you are actually looking for to get the size right is to do a file by file transfer and not a filesystem transfer.


I'm not familiar with xfs or it's utilities... do you by chance know if this [file transfer] should be done via an xfs utility, or using rsync (or an equivalent)?


----------



## RunnerFL

JW0914 said:


> If the timing was off, it should still be recognized with a partition table right? PartedMagic showed it as a single black, raw partition block; yet as soon as I reinstalled it in it's case and booted the HR44 back up, it was recognized and recordings accessible.
> 
> I'm not all that familiar with xfs or DirecTV's root filesystem, but is it possible something is corrupted on the 8TB drive, but not corrupted enough to the degree it's inaccessible to the HR44, but is to the degree it's inaccessible by GParted?


No, if you pulled the drive at the wrong time it would be completely locked. Not readable, not mountable, nothing.

As far as xfs goes it's a pretty stout fs. It would take a lot to corrupt xfs. If there weren't mounted correctly, for instance, it would know and re-run its own event log to repair itself.


----------



## RunnerFL

CBNAX said:


> i believe what you are running into is a restriction on your copy command procedure. You are dumping the file system from the first device to the second device. That file system is setup to be th 5.59TB that a 6TB device formats to. When you do that dump you are carring all the characteristics of that file system inclusive of size. So even though you have an 8TB drive that you formated to be 8TB in the HR44, when you do the copy , you are wiping all of out and re-establishing the 6tb file system. What you are actually looking for to get the size right is to do a file by file transfer and not a filesystem transfer.


Not correct. The xfsdump command doesn't even look at drive size much less carry "all the characteristics of that file system inclusive of size". The xfsdump/xfsrestore command procedure is more or less just an rsync that only does chunks of files at a time.

The command you are thinking of, that DOES take into account drive size, and would limit him to the size of the origin is "dd".


----------



## RunnerFL

JW0914 said:


> I'm not familiar with xfs or it's utilities... do you by chance know if this [file transfer] should be done via an xfs utility, or using rsync (or an equivalent)?


What you said you did, xfsdump/xfsrestore, is the only way to do this right.


----------



## inkahauts

RunnerFL said:


> If your timing was off you wouldn't be able to mount the drive in your other machine, it would be locked.
> 
> If the HR44 partitioned the 8TB drive it should be partitioned correctly. I was mainly checking to make sure you didn't do a dd copy from the 6TB to the 8TB.


I messed up timing once and I could get it to mount, but its copy didn't work right... Using the original gparted. I don't know why...


----------



## JW0914

RunnerFL said:


> No, if you pulled the drive at the wrong time it would be completely locked. Not readable, not mountable, nothing.
> 
> As far as xfs goes it's a pretty stout fs. It would take a lot to corrupt xfs. If there weren't mounted correctly, for instance, it would know and re-run its own event log to repair itself.


I'm in the process or redoing everything right now and I was able to get the external drive to be recognized in GParted this time around. I deleted a bunch of recordings so that 35% (10%) was free, and I'm wondering if the fact that the last time I tried this before I was at 25% (0%) free was the cause of the issue

*Just an FYI for anyone else:* PartedMagic no longer builds its kernel with a required xfs component needed to mount xfs partitions with the rtdev option; however Ubuntu's live version of their installer does.


----------



## inkahauts

RunnerFL said:


> What you said you did, xfsdump/xfsrestore, is the only way to do this right.


But we never copy more than just the shows in the one partition right? I tend to think if he copied other stuff itd be like coping the whole disc and that could lead to issues...


----------



## inkahauts

JW0914 said:


> I'm in the process or redoing everything right now and I was able to get the external drive to be recognized in GParted this time around. I deleted a bunch of recordings so that 35% (10%) was free, and I'm wondering if the fact that the last time I tried this before I was at 25% (0%) free was the cause of the issue
> 
> *Just an FYI for anyone else:* PartedMagic no longer builds its kernel with a required xfs component needed to mount xfs partitions with the rtdev option; however Ubuntu's live version of their installer does.


I once copied a disk that was about 2% free and didnt have any issues. Granted it was for a hr20 but still...


----------



## JW0914

inkahauts said:


> But we never copy more than just the shows in the one partition right? I tend to think if he copied other stuff itd be like coping the whole disc and that could lead to issues...


I'm not sure where you're getting "_if he copied other stuff_" from...

For the third time, I was looking to replace my *INTERNAL* hdd with my *EXTERNAL* hdd, hence the reason for mounting and copying the system partition filesystem from the *internal* hdd to the *external* hdd.


----------



## inkahauts

JW0914 said:


> I'm not sure where you're getting "_if he copied other stuff_" from...
> 
> For the third time, I was looking to replace my *INTERNAL* hdd with my *EXTERNAL* hdd, hence the reason for mounting and copying the system partition filesystem from the *internal* hdd to the *external* hdd.


The fact you where going from internal to external means nothing and has nothing to do with it. Its all about what you copied. And that you are going from one hard drive to another. The process is the same either way.  I used the exact same process for goign from internal to external as well as internal to internal, and even external to internal once. Its all the same and doesnt make a difference in what you have to copy.

The dvr takes care of all the system files, so I wouldn't have wanted to copy those. Only thing you needed to copy was the partition with all the recordings and that's it. Anything more IMHO could result in issues. Did you copy more than just the recordings? The dvr would have rebuilt the playlist on its own without you copying any system files.

Following the directions exactly in the first post of this thread should be all you need to do. It works for me (although it claims issues with each recording copied, they are actually totally fine)

http://www.dbstalk.com/topic/140114-how-to-copy-and-replace-internal-hard-drive/page-1

I am not familiar enough with Linux, for all I know you are saying you did only what this post says, but it sounds like you are saying you thought you needed to do more copying of other partitions as well for some reason.But the way you say system partition files I am thinking you copied something that is misidentifying how much room you have on your hard drive.


----------



## JW0914

inkahauts said:


> The fact you where going from internal to external means nothing and has nothing to do with it. Its all about what you copied. And that you are going from one hard drive to another. The process is the same either way.  I used the exact same process for goign from internal to external as well as internal to internal, and even external to internal once. Its all the same and doesnt make a difference in what you have to copy.
> 
> The dvr takes care of all the system files, so I wouldn't have wanted to copy those. Only thing you needed to copy was the partition with all the recordings and that's it. Anything more IMHO could result in issues. Did you copy more than just the recordings? The dvr would have rebuilt the playlist on its own without you copying any system files.
> 
> Following the directions exactly in the first post of this thread should be all you need to do. It works for me (although it claims issues with each recording copied, they are actually totally fine)
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/topic/140114-how-to-copy-and-replace-internal-hard-drive/page-1
> 
> I am not familiar enough with Linux, for all I know you are saying you did only what this post says, but it sounds like you are saying you thought you needed to do more copying of other partitions as well for some reason.But the way you say system partition files I am thinking you copied something that is misidentifying how much room you have on your hard drive.


Perhaps I'm misunderstanding something or I didn't coherently articulate what I did and what my end goal is

Whenever I reference _system files_, I'm refering to the actual firmware system files which allow the receiver to boot, not DVR content
In regards to the internal and external hdd, I never had a chance to copy anything because GParted listed the external as a RAW, unpartitioned disk

After some troubleshooting, the cause of this was the external USB3 adapter I was using, as once I plugged it directly into a MB sata port, the drive was recognized properly
The only file transfers I've done are the two external transfers mentioned earlier: WD Red 6TB* >> *WD Red 6TB & WD Red 6TB *>> *Seagate Surveillance 8TB _(both were done via xfsdump/xfsrestore only) _
 Last night I transferred all content back from 8TB *>>* 6TB, and am currently in the process of transferring everything back from 6TB* >> *8TB _(prior to copying everything back, I cleared the 8TB partition table, formatted it as ext4, cleared the partition table again, then allowed the HR44 to partition and format it)_.
What I would like to do is physically replace the physical internal drive with the external drive, thereby getting rid of the external case altogether. 

In order to do this, the system files which allow the HR44 to boot would need to be copied from the internal hdd to the external hdd, as I don't believe the system files required to boot the receiver are copied to an external drive (hours to percentage ratio would be different on the external since the receiver sets aside ~200GB _[180GB IIRC]_ for it's system partition which contains the firmware)
It could very well be possible the system partition of the internal drive is the same as the partition utilized for DVR storage on the external, however I don't believe you can simply plop an external drive into the HR44 case and boot from it without the system files from the internal hdd


----------



## inkahauts

JW0914 said:


> Perhaps I'm misunderstanding something or I didn't coherently articulate what I did and what my end goal is
> 
> Whenever I reference _system files_, I'm refering to the actual firmware system files which allow the receiver to boot, not DVR content
> In regards to the internal and external hdd, I never had a chance to copy anything because GParted listed the external as a RAW, unpartitioned disk
> After some troubleshooting, the cause of this was the external USB3 adapter I was using, as once I plugged it directly into a MB sata port, the drive was recognized properly
> The only file transfers I've done are the two external transfers mentioned earlier: WD Red 6TB* >> *WD Red 6TB & WD Red 6TB *>> *Seagate Surveillance 8TB _(both were done via xfsdump/xfsrestore only) _
> Last night I transferred all content back from 8TB *>>* 6TB, and am currently in the process of transferring everything back from 6TB* >> *8TB _(prior to copying everything back, I cleared the 8TB partition table, formatted it as ext4, cleared the partition table again, then allowed the HR44 to partition and format it)_.
> What I would like to do is physically replace the physical internal drive with the external drive, thereby getting rid of the external case altogether.
> In order to do this, the system files which allow the HR44 to boot would need to be copied from the internal hdd to the external hdd, as I don't believe the system files required to boot the receiver are copied to an external drive (hours to percentage ratio would be different on the external since the receiver sets aside ~200GB _[180GB IIRC]_ for it's system partition which contains the firmware)
> It could very well be possible the system partition of the internal drive is the same as the partition utilized for DVR storage on the external, however I don't believe you can simply plop an external drive into the HR44 case and boot from it without the system files from the internal hdd


Yeah I am not sure we are describing gas to each other right, but if I understand you, this system file stuff is probably your issue.

First, there is NOTHING on the hard drive that is needed to allow the DVR to boot up and start. IN fact your genie could actually start up and run without a hard drive at all.  so I don't get why it sounded like where talking about copying system files. There are none to copy.

I see one issue on what you said. I'd have formatted the 8tb drive for something other than Linux. Windows is fine. Then you connect it to the hr44 and let IT format and create all the partitions. That's the only way this works. You doing that step a different way is what may be leading to these issues. The file system stuff you mentioned. You can't take that from one drive to the next, you have to let the hr44 prep each and every disk itself and create its partitions itself. It will create the "system files for that specific hard drive" on the hard drive itself, and it effects the sizes it will recognize as useable for different things. Any other method will not work right from everything I have ever seen posted here.

But I'm not even positive what you have done to be honest. It sounds like you did it right but some of the things you suggest make me wonder if I am understanding exactly what you did correctly.

One question you seem to have.... If you take a working external drive and just replace the internal drive, it will work just fine. Again no system files to make the DVR work are on the hard drive. Plus when you use an external the internal is not accessed at all. It replaces it completely, hence the ability to simply move it from an external case to the internal spot and be done with it.


----------



## JW0914

I didn't realize that, I thought the internal HDD was a requirement to boot, and thus had system critical boot files.

As to formatting, why would the drive need to be formatted first in Windows? I understand if you're not familiar with linux, but that simply doesn't make any logical or rational sense... especially since the HDD had no partition table, which for all intents and purposes, is the same as receiving a new HDD out of the box. 

I have come across users who've had issues getting their external drive recognized and needing to format it first prior to connecting it to the receiver, however if the drive is being recognized by the receiver, this is moot
From what I've gathered, no one has seen a case where, outside of using dd, a size upgraded hdd is interpreted as having free space available, but is locked to the previous HD's available size. 
Windows makes up the majority of the market share on consumer PCs, so it would make sense the vast majority of posts are regarding Windows; however, why would any user need to format the drive prior to pairing it with the receiver, if the receiver is recognizing the dive? The receiver is going to utilize linux xfsprogs utilities to format and partition the drive at boot... what you're stating would be like saying one needs to format a drive in linux prior to installing Windows on it, or prior to using it as external storage on Windows... it doesn't make sense.

Additionally, any user without an EFI motherboard is likely going to have issues formatting a drive 2TB or larger as it requires a GPT partition table in Windows, not MBR (MBR has a max of 2TB)
GPT is only available on EFI motherboards if using Windows, and while any new PC manufactured after 2012 is likely to have EFI firmware, most PCs before that do not (there are exceptions, but the vast majority are BIOS)


----------



## inkahauts

I'd have formatted it in Windows so that it would force the hr44 to wipe out everything on the hard drive and start over from scratch, because I believe something is corrupt on your drive. You can actually take a drive and move it from one DVR to another and it will work fine and even keep all your sieges links etc will follow. Heck even recordings are there but not playable. The hr44 doesn't just reformat if it hasn't been used. And it will rebuild only what it has too... I question if simply wiping the partition would get rid of whatever is corrupted to be honest. Especially if you didn't wipe out every partition. 

Many people at one point or another tried to simply clone discs. They all resulted in the exact issue you are having, a larger hard drive but it won't use it all because the system thinks the drive is still the same size as the old one was. I don't think this is tracked strictly by partition size. I think there's more to it and info on the hard drive in the DIRECTV set aside partition because of the way they also use the hard drive for pushed content providers and commercials and genie recommends recordings. 

Although not why I am suggesting you format it in Windows (again, I'm just suggesting that for you to remove all doubt on starting over for every singe bit so to speak) it has been found that for some reason the machines don't always recognize fresh unformatted discs. I've never seen anyone have a reason why, it just is, and after formatting them in Windows (easiest for most people) the DVRs would then find them and format them and work fine.


----------



## P Smith

JW0914 said:


> _*I didn't realize that, I thought the internal HDD was a requirement to boot, and thus had system critical boot files.*_
> 
> As to formatting, why would the drive need to be formatted first in Windows? I understand if you're not familiar with linux, but that simply doesn't make any logical or rational sense... _*especially since the HDD had no partition table*_, which for all intents and purposes, is the same as receiving a new HDD out of the box.
> 
> I have come across users who've had issues getting their external drive recognized and needing to format it first prior to connecting it to the receiver, however if the drive is being recognized by the receiver, this is moot
> From what I've gathered, no one has seen a case where, outside of using dd, a size upgraded hdd is interpreted as having free space available, but is locked to the previous HD's available size.
> Windows makes up the majority of the market share on consumer PCs, so it would make sense the vast majority of posts are regarding Windows; however, why would any user need to format the drive prior to pairing it with the receiver, if the receiver is recognizing the dive? _*The receiver is going to utilize linux xfsprogs utilities to format and partition the drive at boot.*._. what you're stating would be like saying one needs to format a drive in linux prior to installing Windows on it, or prior to using it as external storage on Windows... it doesn't make sense.
> 
> Additionally, any user without an EFI motherboard is likely going to have issues formatting a drive 2TB or larger as it requires a GPT partition table in Windows, not MBR (MBR has a max of 2TB)
> GPT is only available on EFI motherboards if using Windows, and while any new PC manufactured after 2012 is likely to have EFI firmware, most PCs before that do not (there are exceptions, but the vast majority are BIOS)


a) it has been mentioned a few times during your course of posting
2) if we are talking about DVR's HDD, as I been in the research from beginning, the drive up to 2 TB has MBR
3) the receiver's FW has Linux kernel version with XFS support, not just XFS utilities

Some other considerations about HDD size limitations:
"48-bit Logical Block Addressing (LBA) extends the capacity of IDE ATA/ATAPI devices beyond the limit of 137.4 GB. This limit applies to IDE ATA/ATAPI devices only and not to SCSI interface devices. The original design specification for the ATA interface only provided 28-bits with which to address the devices. This meant that a hard disk could only have a maximum of 268,435,456 sectors of 512 bytes of data thus limiting the ATA interface to a maximum of 137.4 gigabytes. With 48-bit addressing the limit is 144 petabytes (144,000,000 gigabytes).

The kernel, motherboard BIOS and the IDE controller needs to support LBA48. AFAIK the 2.6 kernel shouldn't have a problem with LBA48."

To avoid switch to GPT, new HDD models has 8x bigger sector size [4K] and allow to utilize MBR for drives up to 16 TB
- I don't recall if someone posted here such MBR off DTV drives with size 3,4,6,8 TB - perhaps you could(!)


----------



## RunnerFL

inkahauts said:


> But we never copy more than just the shows in the one partition right? I tend to think if he copied other stuff itd be like coping the whole disc and that could lead to issues...


xfsdump/xfsrestore copies everything on the drive. Shows, log files, Series Links, guide data, logos, etc. It does not even look at the partition size of either the source or destination. You will always wind up with the full space of the destination.


----------



## RunnerFL

inkahauts said:


> Only thing you needed to copy was the partition with all the recordings and that's it. Anything more IMHO could result in issues.


Not true at all. The FULL contents of the drive get copied not just the recordings. There are no "issues" coping "anything more" than the recordings.


----------



## RunnerFL

inkahauts said:


> Yeah I am not sure we are describing gas to each other right, but if I understand you, this system file stuff is probably your issue.


Define "system file stuff".



inkahauts said:


> Yeah I am not sure we are describing gas to each other right, but if I understand you, this system file stuff is probably your issue.
> 
> First, there is NOTHING on the hard drive that is needed to allow the DVR to boot up and start. IN fact your genie could actually start up and run without a hard drive at all.  so I don't get why it sounded like where talking about copying system files. There are none to copy.


You are correct, there is nothing on the drive that is required for the DVR to boot. The OS is in firmware on a chip on the motherboard.

Depending on what you are referring to as "system files" you are incorrect. Log files, guide data, etc are considered "system files".


----------



## RunnerFL

inkahauts said:


> I'd have formatted it in Windows so that it would force the hr44 to wipe out everything on the hard drive and start over from scratch, because I believe something is corrupt on your drive.


Not a bad suggestion but you don't have to go as far as formatting the drive. Just remove any partitions and you're good.


----------



## inkahauts

RunnerFL said:


> Define "system file stuff".
> 
> You are correct, there is nothing on the drive that is required for the DVR to boot. The OS is in firmware on a chip on the motherboard.
> 
> Depending on what you are referring to as "system files" you are incorrect. Log files, guide data, etc are considered "system files".


He was saying system files as in ones needed to boot the DVR. That's what I referred to as not wanting to copy.

I think something in what was copied was corrupted myself. That makes the most sense to me.

As I said I don't know Linux... so that one command copies each petition to the corresponding partition on the other drive?


----------



## JW0914

P Smith said:


> a) it has been mentioned a few times during your course of posting
> 2) if we are talking about DVR's HDD, as I been in the research from beginning, the drive up to 2 TB has MBR
> 3) the receiver's FW has Linux kernel version with XFS support, not just XFS utilities
> 
> Some other considerations about HDD size limitations:
> "48-bit Logical Block Addressing (LBA) extends the capacity of IDE ATA/ATAPI devices beyond the limit of 137.4 GB. This limit applies to IDE ATA/ATAPI devices only and not to SCSI interface devices. The original design specification for the ATA interface only provided 28-bits with which to address the devices. This meant that a hard disk could only have a maximum of 268,435,456 sectors of 512 bytes of data thus limiting the ATA interface to a maximum of 137.4 gigabytes. With 48-bit addressing the limit is 144 petabytes (144,000,000 gigabytes).
> 
> The kernel, motherboard BIOS and the IDE controller needs to support LBA48. AFAIK the 2.6 kernel shouldn't have a problem with LBA48."
> 
> To avoid switch to GPT, new HDD models has 8x bigger sector size [4K] and allow to utilize MBR for drives up to 16 TB
> - I don't recall if someone posted here such MBR off DTV drives with size 3,4,6,8 TB - perhaps you could(!)


_This is only relevant to telling a user they need to format the HDD in Windows prior to connecting it to the receiver._​
All HDD's utilizing SATA have a 4kb/512b physical/logical sector size, at least since 2010 forward (likely before then)... even today, Windows 10 utilizes the 4kb physical/512b logical sector sizes, aligning partitions to the 4096b, but having the OS utilize 512b logical sectors.

The only way Windows can recognize a drive greater than 2TB is with a GPT partition table, as MBR supports a max of 2TB due to 32bit addressing (KB2581408)

In order to utilize a GPT partitioning scheme in Windows, the motherboard must be UEFI, not BIOS (UEFI is 64bit, BIOS IS 32bit)

Within the KB article, scroll down to _"How to convert an MBR disk to GPT" _to see what Windows sees when a drive larger than 2TB is connected... it splits the drive into 2048GB unallocated blocks. The HDD must be converted to GPT in order to avoid this, however BIOS does not support GPT in Windows.
This can be worked around via chipsets and firmware of external drive casings, but if one was to remove a 2.2TB+ drive from an external casing and connect it directly to a BIOS motherboard, Windows would only recognize it in 2048GB unallocated blocks. 

Windows sees these 2048GB blocks as partitions, meaning the maximum size HDD that could be used with Windows on a BIOS motherboard is 8TB (MBR can only support a maximum of 4 partitions)... anything over that would only allow the first four 2048GB blocks to be formatted and utilized.

The only reason a user would need to first initialize the HDD in a Windows/Linux OS is if the HDD isn't recognized by the receiver; however, if the HDD is recognized this is moot.
 This issue is Windows specific, as Linux/BSD natively use GPT (AFAIK)


----------



## RunnerFL

inkahauts said:


> He was saying system files as in ones needed to boot the DVR. That's what I referred to as not wanting to copy.
> 
> I think something in what was copied was corrupted myself. That makes the most sense to me.
> 
> As I said I don't know Linux... so that one command copies each petition to the corresponding partition on the other drive?


As long as you have your source drive and destination drive mounted correctly, yes.


----------



## P Smith

JW0914 said:
 

> _This is only relevant to telling a user they need to format the HDD in Windows prior to connecting it to the receiver._​
> All HDD's utilizing SATA have a 4kb/512b physical/logical sector size, at least since 2010 forward (likely before then)... even today, Windows 10 utilizes the 4kb physical/512b logical sector sizes, aligning partitions to the 4096b, but having the OS utilize 512b logical sectors.
> 
> The only way Windows can recognize a drive greater than 2TB is with a GPT partition table, as MBR supports a max of 2TB due to 32bit addressing (KB2581408)
> 
> In order to utilize a GPT partitioning scheme in Windows, the motherboard must be UEFI, not BIOS (UEFI is 64bit, BIOS IS 32bit)
> 
> Within the KB article, scroll down to _"How to convert an MBR disk to GPT" _to see what Windows sees when a drive larger than 2TB is connected... it splits the drive into 2048GB unallocated blocks. The HDD must be converted to GPT in order to avoid this, however BIOS does not support GPT in Windows.
> This can be worked around via chipsets and firmware of external drive casings, but if one was to remove a 2.2TB+ drive from an external casing and connect it directly to a BIOS motherboard, Windows would only recognize it in 2048GB unallocated blocks.
> 
> Windows sees these 2048GB blocks as partitions, meaning the maximum size HDD that could be used with Windows on a BIOS motherboard is 8TB (MBR can only support a maximum of 4 partitions)... anything over that would only allow the first four 2048GB blocks to be formatted and utilized.
> 
> The only reason a user would need to first initialize the HDD in a Windows/Linux OS is if the HDD isn't recognized by the receiver; however, if the HDD is recognized this is moot.
> This issue is Windows specific, as Linux/BSD natively use GPT (AFAIK)


To put on rest the thoretization/speculation [of new member here] about GPT in DTV DVR's drive:

*such drives perfectly utilize MBR type of partitioning*.
And will do up to 17 TB using drives with 4k sectors. And above that max value, when sector size will be 8k or more.


----------



## JW0914

P Smith said:


> To put on rest the thoretization/speculation [of new member here] about GPT in DTV DVR's drive:
> 
> *such drives perfectly utilize MBR type of partitioning*.
> And will do up to 17 TB using drives with 4k sectors. And above that max value, when sector size will be 8k or more.


I'm not sure how it is almost every user who's chosen to reply in the last couple of weeks doesn't seem to understand the concept of READING _*prior to*_ REPLYING

_*Out of the 10 sentences contained within my post, 100% of them contained "Windows"*_
 _Do us all a favor, go back and *re-read* what you replied to, then once done, delete your reply since it's painfully obvious you have a severe reading deficiency_

*Here's a demonstration of the imbecilic idiocy of not reading prior to replying:*

*1st Sentence:*
_ This is only relevant to telling a user they need to format the HDD in *Windows* prior to connecting it to the receiver._

*2nd Sentence:*

_All HDD's utilizing SATA have a 4kb/512b physical/logical sector size, at least since 2010 forward (likely before then)... even today, *Windows* 10 utilizes the 4kb physical/512b logical sector sizes, aligning partitions to the 4096b, but having the OS utilize 512b logical sectors._


*3rd Sentence:*
_ The only way *Windows* can recognize a drive greater than 2TB is with a GPT partition table, as MBR supports a max of 2TB due to 32bit addressing (KB2581408)_

*4th Sentence:*
_In order to utilize a GPT partitioning scheme in *Windows*, the motherboard must be UEFI, not BIOS (UEFI is 64bit, BIOS IS 32bit)_

*5th Sentence:*
_Within the KB article, scroll down to "How to convert an MBR disk to GPT" to see what *Windows* sees when a drive larger than 2TB is connected... it splits the drive into 2048GB unallocated blocks._

*6th Sentence:*
_The HDD must be converted to GPT in order to avoid this, however BIOS does not support GPT in *Windows*._

* 7th Sentence:*
_This can be worked around via chipsets and firmware of external drive casings, but if one was to remove a 2.2TB+ drive from an external casing and connect it directly to a BIOS motherboard, *Windows* would only recognize it in 2048GB unallocated blocks. _

* 8th Sentence:*
_*Windows* sees these 2048GB blocks as partitions, meaning the maximum size HDD that could be used with *Windows* on a BIOS motherboard is 8TB (MBR can only support a maximum of 4 partitions)... anything over that would only allow the first four 2048GB blocks to be formatted and utilized._

*9th Sentence:*
_The only reason a user would need to first initialize the HDD in a *Windows*/Linux OS is if the HDD isn't recognized by the receiver; however, if the HDD is recognized this is moot._

* 10th Sentence:*
_ This issue is *Windows* specific, as Linux/BSD natively use GPT (AFAIK)_

 

*Considering you have 21,307 posts, it's disconcerting to see you still haven't learned to read prior to replying... even more so when out of the 10 sentences contained within my post, 100% of them contained "Windows"*

You're not the only one, as I've noticed at least 2 or 3 other users who also seem to have the same reading deficiency in the past couple of weeks in this thread.
The truly ridiculous and pathetic part is I've now mentioned the lack of reading prior to replying at least 5 times now in the past few weeks to at least 3 veteran members of this forum, all within this thread. I would have thought after the second time some basic comprehension would have taken place.
*If you're not going to read prior to replying, don't waste mine, and every other user's, time by posting a reply.*


----------



## P Smith

Take a walk on other wild side ... means a thread
with your windows tirades !

also keep your mentor's skills for your kids at home

The thread is ABOUT HDD FOR DTV DVRs if you cannot comprehend the topic.

PS. HDD bigger then 2 TB with 4k sectors perfectly working under Windows !


----------



## JW0914

P Smith said:


> Take a walk on other wild side ... means a thread
> with your windows tirades !
> 
> also keep your mentor's skills for your kids at home
> 
> The thread is ABOUT HDD FOR DTV DVRs if you cannot comprehend the topic.
> 
> PS. HDD bigger then 2 TB with 4k sectors perfectly working under Windows !


You clearly have no understanding of context, nor bother to read what a conversation was about (i.e. reading the prior replies in a conversation chain), prior to replying. Had you bothered to scroll up a bit, you would have found post 3352 and 3354, where @inkahauts was stating to format the drive in Windows prior to pairing with the HR44... clearly you're hubristic enough to believe you don't have to bother reading.

You're welcome to believe whatever you want about HDDs larger than 2TB with an MBR partition scheme and how they function within Windows when utilizing a BIOS motherboard, but you shouldn't be surprised when users consider those statements imbecilic idiocy and label you as ignorant. I've repeatedly pointed you and others to the relevant KB article, of which even has pictures for users like yourself that don't bother reading... take 30 seconds and look at the pictures if you don't want to read =]

Either way, I have better things to do on a Sat than point out the imbecilic idiocy of your posts, so have a wonderful weekend =]


----------



## P Smith

anyway, you got wrong place to do personal flaming and names calling
the bad karma is returning to your destiny

for other relevant discussion here is snapshot by [email protected] how Windows handle 3 TB drive with *MBR*
*http://www.avsforum.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1788809&d=1480087329*


----------



## RunnerFL

P Smith said:


> anyway, you got wrong place to do personal flaming and names calling
> the bad karma is returning to your destiny
> 
> for other relevant discussion here is snapshot by [email protected] how Windows handle 3 TB drive with *MBR*
> *http://www.avsforum.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1788809&d=1480087329*


This thread isn't about how Windows handles a drive. Please stay on topic.


----------



## P Smith

WTH ?! Where you've been before? Why you jumped on now ?
If you come to police the thread look back into posts last week, damn !


----------



## RunnerFL

P Smith said:


> WTH ?! Where you've been before? Why you jumped on now ?
> If you come to police the thread look back into posts last week, damn !


I've been keeping up. You'd know that if you were reading all posts. Your posts however wandered off topic into the world of Windows.


----------



## P Smith

Instead of posting snarky comments, you're as one of a few members here who made VL EHD for DTV DVR, could help settle the dust what created by new member and do post on-topic info: MBR data (parsed) from your 12 TB RAID EHD.


----------



## top_speed

Sorry guys to interrupt (and I read back at all the posts, yikes!)
...I just came back to ask a Q about my Seagate 8TB esata drive, which by the way is awesome, not even one reboot required since using this drive! 

Anyways, what do you think about taking the esata drive (snowbird) camping in a 45' motorcoach with a Trav'ler dish?. I know the esata is fragile and more apt to tip over etc., so would you risk this or just let your scheduled programs go to the Internal for the let's say 1-Month or 2 of snowbirding.

I see internal as the safest and easiest, but a pain when retrieving your shows when older ones will be on the esata drive, some newer then may be on the Internal, then the newest (if back home) are back on the esata.

Personally one feature that would be WAY cool (at least for me) would be a "sync" feature or button to take whats on the internal to the external. I know copyright probably comes into play, but hey, I'm dreaming here I guess 

*If you don't answer, I'll understand, it's now heated up into a Windows formatting and partition thread.

Cheers mates


----------



## RunnerFL

P Smith said:


> Instead of posting snarky comments, you're as one of a few members here who made VL EHD for DTV DVR, could help settle the dust what created by new member and do post on-topic info: MBR data (parsed) from your 12 TB RAID EHD.


I'm not going to tear down my system to satisfy your curiosity. If you want to find out you can test yourself.


----------



## RunnerFL

top_speed said:


> Sorry guys to interrupt (and I read back at all the posts, yikes!)
> ...I just came back to ask a Q about my Seagate 8TB esata drive, which by the way is awesome, not even one reboot required since using this drive!
> 
> Anyways, what do you think about taking the esata drive (snowbird) camping in a 45' motorcoach with a Trav'ler dish?. I know the esata is fragile and more apt to tip over etc., so would you risk this or just let your scheduled programs go to the Internal for the let's say 1-Month or 2 of snowbirding.
> 
> I see internal as the safest and easiest, but a pain when retrieving your shows when older ones will be on the esata drive, some newer then may be on the Internal, then the newest (if back home) are back on the esata.
> 
> Personally one feature that would be WAY cool (at least for me) would be a "sync" feature or button to take whats on the internal to the external. I know copyright probably comes into play, but hey, I'm dreaming here I guess
> 
> *If you don't answer, I'll understand, it's now heated up into a Windows formatting and partition thread.
> 
> Cheers mates


The eSATA cable is more fragile than the drive/enclosure is. If you're bringing your DVR in the motorcoach you should bring the external drive as well, just bring an extra eSATA cable and strap that puppy down.


----------



## P Smith

RunnerFL said:


> I'm not going to tear down my system to satisfy your curiosity. If you want to find out you can test yourself.


you're real pain in the discussion - when need to share your experience, you're hiding it, when not - posting ... tsk, tsk, tsk


----------



## RunnerFL

P Smith said:


> you're real pain in the discussion - when need to share your experience, you're hiding it, when not - posting ... tsk, tsk, tsk


You can do the work as well, don't be lazy. I'm not your errand boy.


----------



## mocarob

What's a VL EHD?


----------



## Rich

mocarob said:


> What's a VL EHD?


You would not believe how many times we ask folks to explain obscure (to some of us, anyway) acronyms.

Looks like it might have something to do with an External Hard Drive, I have no idea (aside from Very Large) what the VL means.

Gee, could that be it?...Pete???

Rich


----------



## P Smith

Rich said:


> You would not believe how many times we ask folks to explain obscure (to some of us, anyway) acronyms.
> 
> Looks like it might have something to do with an External Hard Drive, I have no idea (aside from Very Large) what the VL means.
> 
> Gee, could that be it?...Pete???
> 
> Rich


that's right; it's pretty common acronym in microelectronics context

"errand boy" ? tsk, tsk,tsk ... posting such weird names ... just not to share info ...
seems to me you're only one member here who found/running max size of EHD for DTV DVR, but so snobby to get into technical details ... sad behavior


----------



## RunnerFL

P Smith said:


> "errand boy" ? tsk, tsk,tsk ... posting such weird names ... just not to share info ...
> seems to me you're only one member here who found/running max size of EHD for DTV DVR, but so snobby to get into technical details ... sad behavior


Call it what you want. I'm just tired of you thinking I work for you and run tests for you. You want the info then do your own tests. I put in my time and shared information with those who asked politely. I don't do demands.


----------



## JW0914

RunnerFL said:


> Sorry guys to interrupt (and I read back at all the posts, yikes!)
> ...I just came back to ask a Q about my Seagate 8TB esata drive, which by the way is awesome, not even one reboot required since using this drive!
> 
> Anyways, what do you think about taking the esata drive (snowbird) camping in a 45' motorcoach with a Trav'ler dish?. I know the esata is fragile and more apt to tip over etc., so would you risk this or just let your scheduled programs go to the Internal for the let's say 1-Month or 2 of snowbirding.
> 
> I see internal as the safest and easiest, but a pain when retrieving your shows when older ones will be on the esata drive, some newer then may be on the Internal, then the newest (if back home) are back on the esata.
> 
> Personally one feature that would be WAY cool (at least for me) would be a "sync" feature or button to take whats on the internal to the external. I know copyright probably comes into play, but hey, I'm dreaming here I guess
> 
> *If you don't answer, I'll understand, it's now heated up into a Windows formatting and partition thread.
> 
> Cheers mates
> 
> 
> 
> The eSATA cable is more fragile than the drive/enclosure is. If you're bringing your DVR in the motorcoach you should bring the external drive as well, just bring an extra eSATA cable and strap that puppy down.
Click to expand...

I personally would simply swap the internal drive with the external.

If you have a Genie, there's 5 snap clips that hold the plastic case to the metal chassis, of which are accessible with a pick tool or small flat head screwdriver [two on each side & one in the middle].
As to "syncing", I believe you could simply perform the steps in the first post in this thread to copy the data from the internal drive onto the external, however someone else would need to verify. 

My line of thinking is since the recordings are stored with a long hexadecimal string for the filename, it's highly unlikely the small number of recordings on the internal drive would match any of the file names currently saved to the external; thus the chance of information being overwritten on the external should be extremely minute.

_With that being said, I would recommend waiting for a more experienced user than I to verify whether or not my assumption is correct prior to doing so._
As *@RunnerFL* said, eSATA cables are quite fragile and more susceptible to data corruption in transit

I've had 3 MonoPrice eSATA cables, as well as a few other manufacturers, fail over the past 3 years, which I've narrowed down to either the power center and all 12 power cables that run within a few inches of the eSATA cable, or the way in which the cable was managed behind the entertainment center (this one of the reasons I swapped my internal drive with the external).

*@RunnerFL*, since eSATA ports and USB ports are cross compatible with the other, does that hold the same in regards to eSATA cables and USB cables (i.e. instead of using an eSATA cable, use a USB cable with two A Type connectors)?


----------



## RunnerFL

JW0914 said:


> *@RunnerFL*, since eSATA ports and USB ports are cross compatible with the other, does that hold the same in regards to eSATA cables and USB cables (i.e. instead of using an eSATA cable, use a USB cable with two A Type connectors)?


On what planet are they cross compatible? eSATA and USB are completely different.


----------



## JW0914

RunnerFL said:


> On what planet are they cross compatible? eSATA and USB are completely different.


You can use an eSATA port for USB and a USB port for eSATA... the port itself is cross compatible.


----------



## Rich

RunnerFL said:


> Call it what you want. I'm just tired of you thinking I work for you and run tests for you. You want the info then do your own tests. I put in my time and shared information with those who asked politely. I don't do demands.


So, Pete referenced my post to reply to you? I couldn't figure out what he meant... :nono2:

Rich


----------



## RunnerFL

JW0914 said:


> You can use an eSATA port for USB and a USB port for eSATA... the port itself is cross compatible.


First I've ever heard of that... I wouldn't trust it if it's possible.


----------



## RunnerFL

Rich said:


> So, Pete referenced my post to reply to you? I couldn't figure out what he meant... :nono2:
> 
> Rich


Yeah, took me a couple of times reading it to figure that out.


----------



## JW0914

RunnerFL said:


> First I've ever heard of that... I wouldn't trust it if it's possible.


It's been possible for years (at least a decade).

All consumer routers use their USB 2 port for eSATA/USB2, most, if not all, [Windows] laptops and PCs support it... you're obviously typing on some form of a device, so if it's not a phone or tablet, you could easily verify this. 

However, to say that because you've never heard of it, and therefore don't trust it, is simply ignorant... not to even mention you're taking your own "opinion" over what the facts are, making the former even worse.
Additionally, you clearly have access to the internet, so wouldn't it make more sense to use google to fact check your opinion before posting?

There's two types of eSATA ports, regular eSATA [5v only] and eSATAp [5v & 12v], with the latter being keyed differently than regular eSATA, however both will accept a USB A Type connector, and both will recognize whatever device is connected via USB (whether a HDD, mouse, keyboard, or any other peripheral).
The eSATA port is routed to different hardware than USB ports on the PCB (at least on some, if not all, MBs - my old AW M18x routed the eSATA port through the mini PCIe controller), which is a huge advantage on laptops/PCs manufactured with BIOS motherboards since you could blind flash the BIOS via a flash drive in the eSATA port if the system didn't POST, say from bad OC values (Alienware PCs/Laptops with BIOS MBs had this functionality for instance)

My purpose in asking about a double ended A Type USB cable is I can use one to connect my external case's eSATA port to my PC's USB port, however, I've never tried it with a DirecTV box. I figured since most of the participants in this thread are veteran members, perhaps one of you guys may have come across someone that's tried it before and whether or not any issues arose from it. 
 My line of thought was if there are no issues that arise from using it, *@top_speed* could simply utilize that in lieu of the more fragile eSATA cables in their motorcoach


----------



## RunnerFL

The USB port on a DirecTV box cannot be used for an external drive, period, no matter what adapters you may or may not have.


----------



## JW0914

RunnerFL said:


> The USB port on a DirecTV box cannot be used for an external drive, period, no matter what adapters you may or may not have.


Seriously, does anyone read posts fully prior to replying?

I never said anything about the USB port on the DirecTV box. Is it really that difficult to read, as this is the third time you've replied to one of my posts in the last several weeks without fully reading what I wrote. Either read and then reply, or don't reply at all.


----------



## RunnerFL

JW0914 said:


> Seriously, does anyone read posts fully prior to replying?
> 
> I never said anything about the USB port on the DirecTV box. Is it really that difficult to read, as this is the third time you've replied to one of my posts in the last several weeks without fully reading what I wrote. Either read and then reply, or don't reply at all.


"My purpose in asking about a double ended A Type USB cable is I can use one to connect my external case's eSATA port to my PC's USB port, however, I've never tried it with a DirecTV box. I figured since most of the participants in this thread are veteran members, perhaps one of you guys may have come across someone that's tried it before and whether or not any issues arose from it. " 

The answer is NO. What part of that do you not get? The N or the O? Maybe you should take your own advice and read before replying.


----------



## inkahauts

Yeah and just in case he means using a USB cord to connect two esata ports I don't think that will work because I don't believe the genie would ever be able to identify properly. I don't think it's setup for USB cords plugged into the esata port. They only carry firmware for exactly what is needed and USB isn't needed or wanted by them via the esata port.


----------



## JW0914

inkahauts said:


> Yeah and just in case he means using a USB cord to connect two esata ports I don't think that will work because I don't believe the genie would ever be able to identify properly. I don't think it's setup for USB cords plugged into the esata port. They only carry firmware for exactly what is needed and USB isn't needed or wanted by them via the esata port.


Clearly it's too high of an expectation to expect users to read, or use Google for that matter.

eSATA and USB ports are cross compatible with the other and have been for at least a decade... again, don't take my word for it, google it. While a DirecTV receiver may not support it, of which no one has tested therefore a definitive answer is not known, 99% of devices do (again, don't take my word for it, google it, or since you have devices with eSATA ports, try it).

Your reply is even more asinine considering what I stated was in the post you just replied to. Clearly this forum is either filled by children unable to read, or adults who refuse... not sure which is worse at this point

Any person who chooses to believe their opinions over facts that have been presented to them with evidence is an imbecile... it's really that simple. *Opinions ≠ facts and facts ≠ opinions*


----------



## JW0914

RunnerFL said:


> "My purpose in asking about a double ended A Type USB cable is I can use one to connect my external case's eSATA port to my PC's USB port, however, I've never tried it with a DirecTV box. I figured since most of the participants in this thread are veteran members, perhaps one of you guys may have come across someone that's tried it before and whether or not any issues arose from it. "
> 
> The answer is NO. What part of that do you not get? The N or the O? Maybe you should take your own advice and read before replying.


I don't understand asinine... You have no clue whether or not it would work, and you're an idiot for stating it wouldn't considering not only what you've stated, and I'll quote to show the imbecilic idiocy, you clearly haven't tested to determine if it would or would not work on a DirecTV receiver:

"_On what planet are they_ [eSATA & USB ports] _cross compatible? eSATA and USB are completely different._"
"_First I've ever heard of that _[eSATA & USB port cross compatibility]_... I wouldn't trust it if it's possible._"
*Asinine... *


----------



## P Smith

The newbie person willingly mixed DTV DVR's forum with PC forum, where some motherboards has such combo ports CONNECTOR !
It's just two different set of contacts in one housing ! Not "cross compatible" !

Like the MSI company eSATAp connector:









Wiki article is here
Pinout is here


----------



## inkahauts

JW0914 said:


> Clearly it's too high of an expectation to expect users to read, or use Google for that matter.
> 
> eSATA and USB ports are cross compatible with the other and have been for at least a decade... again, don't take my word for it, google it. While a DirecTV receiver may not support it, of which no one has tested therefore a definitive answer is not known, 99% of devices do (again, don't take my word for it, google it, or since you have devices with eSATA ports, try it).
> 
> Your reply is even more asinine considering what I stated was in the post you just replied to. Clearly this forum is either filled by children unable to read, or adults who refuse... not sure which is worse at this point
> 
> Any person who chooses to believe their opinions over facts that have been presented to them with evidence is an imbecile... it's really that simple. *Opinions ≠ facts and facts ≠ opinions*


Excuse me? While you may think no one has ever tried it you'd be wrong. I did once ages ago and it didn't work. I don't believe dtv would ever support that either for a variety of reasons. I didn't know I had to state that in order for you to read my post without thinking I don't know what I'm talking about.

And Of course I know they are physically cross compatible. I never once questioned that. And yes most computers have no issues with that. I never doubted that either. But DIRECTV is just different in how it operates and what they support than a computer. They have a ridiculously small space for receiver firmware and they only put exactly what drivers are needed for that specific model from that spiecific manuafcturer. That's right, two models of from different manufacturers can have some different firmware. There was discussion about that years ago and confirmed years ago. And they aren't going to waste space supporting something like that, heck technically the esata port isn't even supported but the drivers are already there since it's sata.

And I tested it ages ago when for a very short period of time dtv had actually activated the USB port and you could connect a hard drive to it. That last a couple weeks then went away and was never actually even mentioned by them in the testing. Someone just found it and I played with it many different ways and tried the drive on the esata port I tested it with after the USB port stopped working.

No matter how you shake it while your question was fine there is no way to have anything USB involved in making a hard drive work with a dtv box at this time. And it seems you don't think we understand the exact form of what you want to try and we are saying it just doesn't matter. Hopefully you'll realize we do understand and we know what we are saying when we say it does not work with dtv.


----------



## RunnerFL

inkahauts said:


> Yeah and just in case he means using a USB cord to connect two esata ports I don't think that will work because I don't believe the genie would ever be able to identify properly. I don't think it's setup for USB cords plugged into the esata port. They only carry firmware for exactly what is needed and USB isn't needed or wanted by them via the esata port.


I won't work... eSATA = 7 pin, USB = 4 pin. In no way are they cross compatible.


----------



## RunnerFL

JW0914 said:


> While a DirecTV receiver may not support it, of which no one has tested therefore a definitive answer is not known, 99% of devices do (again, don't take my word for it, google it, or since you have devices with eSATA ports, try it).


You assume no one has tested it. You know what happens when you assume, right?

The USB port on a Genie can NOT be used to add an external hard drive, period.


----------



## RunnerFL

JW0914 said:


> I don't understand asinine... You have no clue whether or not it would work, and you're an idiot for stating it wouldn't considering not only what you've stated, and I'll quote to show the imbecilic idiocy, you clearly haven't tested to determine if it would or would not work on a DirecTV receiver:
> 
> "_On what planet are they_ [eSATA & USB ports] _cross compatible? eSATA and USB are completely different._"
> "_First I've ever heard of that _[eSATA & USB port cross compatibility]_... I wouldn't trust it if it's possible._"
> *Asinine... *


Cool, personal attacks....

Another one for the ignore list.


----------



## P Smith

inkahauts said:


> And Of course I know they are physically cross compatible. I never once questioned that. And yes most computers have no issues with that.


well, it's very thin edge 
- IF the motherboard employ the _duo_ connector: eSATAp/USB
- you can use only one kind, not both
- the"cross compatibility" is not SATA/USB protocol's interchangeability ! You MUST use one of proper cabling and one port's type, just ONE !


----------



## SubSolar

Just upgraded to a HR54-500. I plugged in my esata hard drive to it they I had on my old DVR (I think HR34), but it didn't format. Shows the shows I had previously recorded but won't play. I'm guessing I need to hook it up to a PC and format or delete partitions and then when I plug it back to the HR54 it will format it correctly? Do I need to format it on the PC in a particular file system or should I just delete all the partitions?


----------



## SubSolar

SubSolar said:


> Just upgraded to a HR54-500. I plugged in my esata hard drive to it they I had on my old DVR (I think HR34), but it didn't format. Shows the shows I had previously recorded but won't play. I'm guessing I need to hook it up to a PC and format or delete partitions and then when I plug it back to the HR54 it will format it correctly? Do I need to format it on the PC in a particular file system or should I just delete all the partitions?


Actually I just winged it and deleted all the partitions from a PC and then created a new ntfs one. It seems to work with the HR54. One thing though is that I can't access channel 104 4k channel anymore, it says to call. I'm guessing they somehow have to reauthorize cause it looks different with a different hard drive?


----------



## P Smith

no format required
just remove partitions
make it under Windows Disk Manager totally free


----------



## P Smith

SubSolar said:


> Actually I just winged it and deleted all the partitions from a PC and then created a new ntfs one. It seems to work with the HR54. One thing though is that I can't access channel 104 4k channel anymore, it says to call. I'm guessing they somehow have to reauthorize cause it looks different with a different hard drive?


nay, it shouldn't matter
just call or use online "resend authorization" button


----------



## inkahauts

SubSolar said:


> Just upgraded to a HR54-500. I plugged in my esata hard drive to it they I had on my old DVR (I think HR34), but it didn't format. Shows the shows I had previously recorded but won't play. I'm guessing I need to hook it up to a PC and format or delete partitions and then when I plug it back to the HR54 it will format it correctly? Do I need to format it on the PC in a particular file system or should I just delete all the partitions?


Nah just delete them and start using it. You are good.


----------



## P Smith

inkahauts said:


> Nah just delete them and start using it. You are good.


he did already - read post 3401


----------



## RunnerFL

SubSolar said:


> Just upgraded to a HR54-500. I plugged in my esata hard drive to it they I had on my old DVR (I think HR34), but it didn't format. Shows the shows I had previously recorded but won't play. I'm guessing I need to hook it up to a PC and format or delete partitions and then when I plug it back to the HR54 it will format it correctly? Do I need to format it on the PC in a particular file system or should I just delete all the partitions?


It's already formatted to work with the HR54, why reformat? Just delete the shows you can't play from the HR34 and move on.


----------



## Rich

SubSolar said:


> Just upgraded to a HR54-500. I plugged in my esata hard drive to it they I had on my old DVR (I think HR34), but it didn't format. Shows the shows I had previously recorded but won't play. I'm guessing I need to hook it up to a PC and format or delete partitions and then when I plug it back to the HR54 it will format it correctly? Do I need to format it on the PC in a particular file system or should I just delete all the partitions?


It shouldn't do a reformat. What you're seeing is normal. Just select all the content you're seeing and delete it. Once you do that, you'll have a blank HDD. No way you're gonna be able to ever see that content, you'd have to watch it on the 34. The "marriage" between the external HDD and the 34 is responsible for this, you cannot break that "marriage".

Rich


----------



## P Smith

SubSolar said:


> Actually I just winged it and *deleted all the partitions* from a PC and then created a new ntfs one. It seems to work with the HR54. One thing though is that I can't access channel 104 4k channel anymore, it says to call. I'm guessing they somehow have to reauthorize cause it looks different with a different hard drive?


He did already !


----------



## SubSolar

P Smith said:


> nay, it shouldn't matter
> just call or use online "resend authorization" button


Hmm, I still can't get the 4k Channel 104 with the external hard drive connected. It says "The program you selected could not be authorized for this location. Try again later or call Customer Care at 800-531-5000.

I did both the online reauthorization send page (DIRECTV - #1 Satellite TV - 855-254-3473) and also called them and no luck. The tech support claims it has to be the C61-K and wants to send someone to replace it, but I told him it's not the equipment cause it works every time if I bootup the HR54 without the external hard drive. What to try next? I don't want to get stuck with 500 gigs when I have a 6TB eSata to use.


----------



## P Smith

you have new unique case - please open own thread, we are posting off-topic


----------



## RunnerFL

P Smith said:


> He did already !


Relax dude, we were replying to his initial post and didn't get to his secondary response yet.


----------



## Rich

RunnerFL said:


> Relax dude, we were replying to his initial post and didn't get to his secondary response yet.


I would not be surprised if this turns out to be a corrupted HDD. Seems like quite a bit of tinkering has been done on that HDD. Concerns me. Not that I can see why the external drive doesn't work and the internal drive does. That's puzzling.

Rich


----------



## P Smith

RunnerFL said:


> Relax dude, we were replying to his initial post and didn't get to his secondary response yet.


don't sleep behind steering wheel !


----------



## RunnerFL

P Smith said:


> don't sleep behind steering wheel !


Stay on topic... This thread isn't about driving a car...


----------



## P Smith

sure, it's not about your mentoring skills too


----------



## yobear

Is there a list of confirmed working external drives that work with the HR54 on this site? I'm talking about the type that comes with the enclosure and hard drive all as one unit. Ive tried the external Fantom 4TB Hard Drive which I found to be recommended for the HR44 but it just refused to work. My forum search skills must not be up to par because I can't seem to find anything. I would really appreciate help with this.


----------



## P Smith

the list cannot be created
- old HDD models fading out
- new models HDD coming each year
same with eSATA enclosures for the HHD

so, it's only one way for you - search and read posts, better made last months


----------



## Rich

yobear said:


> Is there a list of confirmed working external drives that work with the HR54 on this site? I'm talking about the type that comes with the enclosure and hard drive all as one unit. Ive tried the external Fantom 4TB Hard Drive which I found to be recommended for the HR44 but it just refused to work. My forum search skills must not be up to par because I can't seem to find anything. I would really appreciate help with this.


You're better off building your own external device. It's pretty simple. Just about any WD HDD will work, I use the Blue drives. I'd also suggest a Thermaltake Dock instead of an enclosure. Not many TT docks on Amazon today. Can't help but wonder if they are being phased out?

Rich


----------



## doctor j

Rich said:


> You're better off building your own external device. It's pretty simple. Just about any WD HDD will work, I use the Blue drives. I'd also suggest a Thermaltake Dock instead of an enclosure. Not many TT docks on Amazon today. Can't help but wonder if they are being phased out?
> 
> Rich


Rich,
I think the TT single drive USB/eSATA dock has been discontinued.
Recently bought a spare on e-bay just in case!

Was hoping they would replace with a USB 3.0/ eSATA but seems so far just USB3.0 is their new box.

I agree the thermaltake dock has been the best external unit for any of my receivers, HR20 thru HR54

Doctor j


----------



## Laxguy

I have TT USB and eSATA dock that's currently unused. I am wondering if it could pair up with the H44. I recall that it won't, and I can't test as it's deactivated. Anyone know?


----------



## Rich

doctor j said:


> Rich,
> *I think the TT single drive USB/eSATA dock has been discontinued*.
> Recently bought a spare on e-bay just in case!
> 
> Was hoping they would replace with a USB 3.0/ eSATA but seems so far just USB3.0 is their new box.
> 
> I agree the thermaltake dock has been the best external unit for any of my receivers, HR20 thru HR54
> 
> Doctor j


Well, that's unfortunate. Kinda figured something was amiss. Thanx for the info.

Rich


----------



## peds48

Rich said:


> I've never tried to put a dock on a Genie, but why wouldn't it work? They work fine on the 24s.
> 
> Rich


The H44 is a liitle bit different then any of the other DVRs, it uses eSATAp

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## dminches

I have a 3 TB drive in a TT dock hung off my HR44. Works fine.

Maybe you guys are talking about an H44. I don't have one of those.


----------



## P Smith

peds48 said:


> The H44 is a liitle bit different then any of the other DVRs, it uses eSATAp


and what is your point ?
eSATAp utilize SAME connector as typical eSATA, it has just with two additional contacts to provide +5/12VDC to a device from the host;
if eSATA cable has no pins to contact to the "p" part, then external device would be powered by own PS as usual

I don't understand your post


----------



## inkahauts

Laxguy said:


> I have TT USB and eSATA dock that's currently unused. I am wondering if it could pair up with the H44. I recall that it won't, and I can't test as it's deactivated. Anyone know?


Won't work. Has to be a esata powered hard drive. And that unit won't accept anything other than a 1tb drive from dtv either. So no all the way around. Only way to get it to DVR is buying the drive from dtv.


----------



## P Smith

inkahauts said:


> from dtv either


what so special in the HDD/enclosure ?


----------



## Laxguy

It's the unit - the H44- that won't accept an HDD unless such drive has been formatted by DIRECTV.


----------



## P Smith

Laxguy said:


> It's the unit - the H44- that won't accept an HDD unless such drive has been formatted by DIRECTV.


I'm surprised - no one did found what's DTV H44's format is there ? Not ext3/4 anymore ? XFS ?


----------



## inkahauts

P Smith said:


> I'm surprised - no one did found what's DTV H44's format is there ? Not ext3/4 anymore ? XFS ?


Not sure what they did but there is something to that drive. It may be hardware drivers for all I know. No real clue.


----------



## Rich

Laxguy said:


> It's the unit - the H44- that won't accept an HDD unless such drive has been formatted by DIRECTV.


Did not see *H*44 in your post. Sorry. Can't help but wonder about this. All the blank drives are formatted by D* when they are installed in or on an HR, no? What's different?

Rich


----------



## peds48

P Smith said:


> and what is your point ?
> 
> I don't understand your post


that it won't work. Folks have tried different drives with unsusceful results.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## inkahauts

Rich said:


> Did not see *H*44 in your post. Sorry. Can't help but wonder about this. All the blank drives are formatted by D* when they are installed in or on an HR, no? What's different?
> 
> Rich


I believe there's hardware drivers for this specific device / enclosure since it uses a powered esata port to drive the hard drive and if it doesn't see that specific hardware containing that drive it just doesn't even bother.


----------



## P Smith

inkahauts said:


> I believe there's hardware drivers for this specific device / enclosure since it uses a powered esata port to drive the hard drive and if it doesn't see that specific hardware containing that drive it just doesn't even bother.


very weird sugestion !
loading +5/12VDC rails and sense it ? it's impractical and I would bet it's not the key in pairing


----------



## Rich

inkahauts said:


> I believe there's hardware drivers for this specific device / enclosure since it uses a powered esata port to drive the hard drive and if it doesn't see that specific hardware containing that drive it just doesn't even bother.


Unbelievable (doesn't mean I doubt you).

Rich


----------



## P Smith

If owners of the _special_ enclosure could tell us what HDD make/model inside; 
perhaps it was special batch from mfg, like dish did order from WDC for PVR/DVR (and made an approved list with them) with specific suffix in model name


----------



## Laxguy

It's really a dead end. Regardless of what the hurdle is, DIRECTV doesn't want other drives used on that model. It may even be against the TOS._ Finis!_


----------



## P Smith

I don't get a reason for that.


----------



## Laxguy

There doesn't have to be a reason you can understand. It's corporate policy.


----------



## P Smith

I'm a CUSTOMER, not the corporate slave !


----------



## jimmie57

Laxguy said:


> It's really a dead end. Regardless of what the hurdle is, DIRECTV doesn't want other drives used on that model. It may even be against the TOS._ Finis!_


They make esatap enclosures and they make esatap to esata and esatap to 2.5 and 3.5" drives, etc. etc.
Amazon.com: esatap


----------



## Lord Vader

Hey, guys. I've got a coupon to use at Newegg and was thinking about getting a new 2TB external drive to connect to a new HR24 I also just acquired. It replaced an HR20-700 (God, I love those receivers!). I was looking around Newegg's website to figure out what external drive might be the best eSata drive to work, but I confess I got a bit confused. Any suggestions? Feel free to look on their site and let me know if you have a personal recommendation. Thanks.


----------



## P Smith

LV, honestly - that's you'll pay the money and only you'll be use it. Why not make your own decision based on reading posts here where people did share their own experience ?
Perhaps you could vocalize your confusion in details ? With URL to what and why confusing you...


----------



## Lord Vader

I got a bit confused by all the technical specs, I guess. It's been several years since I bought my last two eSata drives, and the models that are mentioned by DirecTV on their website are older, discontinued models, it appears. I was just checking to see which 2TB drives on Newegg's site would work. In hindsight, I don't really need a "personal" recommendation; rather, just a confirmation of which ones should best do the job.


----------



## P Smith

"best" is the point of taking responsibility by someone who will recommend to you the model ...
I would take any what is match your budget, test it and "enjoy-or-return" it.


----------



## Lord Vader

I don't really want to be buying and returning things when all I'm looking for is anyone's experience with a 2TB drive. Since it's been so long since I've purchased one--the ones I bought are long discontinued--I'm just seeing if anyone has any recommendations or knows off the top of their head which drives are known to work.


----------



## P Smith

should be any SATA drive today; most likely if a problem will arise [or found by some one and posted here] it will attribute to enclosure's controller
but you are always have best option to solve the problem - using direct SATA-to-eSATA [I-L] cable, bypass the controller and use the enclosure as simple powered box [with a fan]


----------



## Lord Vader

Thanks. I do believe I have an enclosure lying around, still unused.


----------



## Rich

Lord Vader said:


> I got a bit confused by all the technical specs, I guess. It's been several years since I bought my last two eSata drives, and the models that are mentioned by DirecTV on their website are older, discontinued models, it appears. I was just checking to see which 2TB drives on Newegg's site would work. In hindsight, I don't really need a "personal" recommendation; rather, just a confirmation of which ones should best do the job.


Just about any WD HDD will work. I'll recommend this: Amazon.com: WD Blue 2TB Desktop Hard Disk Drive - 5400 RPM SATA 6 Gb/s 64MB Cache 3.5 Inch - WD20EZRZ: Computers & Accessories. That's the HDD I'd buy.

Regarding HDDs recommended for 24s and most Genies, I'd stay away from D*'s HDD recommendations. They don't support external eSATA devices and have little knowledge of them.

You'll also need an enclosure, try this: Amazon.com: Vantec 3.5" SATA 6Gb/s to USB 3.0/eSATA HDD Enclosure (NST-366SU3-BK): Computers & Accessories

Rich


----------



## Lord Vader

Thanks, Rich! That's a big help.


----------



## JerryMeeker

I need to make a decision on a 4TB eSATA drive. Looking at the offerings from WD, I see a desktop model, a NAS model, and a surveillance model. As far as I can tell, the desktop model is 7200RPM and optimized for game performance. The surveillance model seem to be optimized for 24x7 continuous operation, and is a 5400RPM model. The NAS Odell seems to be optimized for reliability, RPM unknown. I am inclined to think the surveillance model is the best choice for a DVR, if it really matters.

Anyone have any insight as to whether one of these models would be preferred over the others?


----------



## Laxguy

I'd rule out the speedy one, and lean towards the NAS model. But i am just a layman with HDDs.


----------



## P Smith

desktop model is for general purpose, not gaming, for such purpose you'll need velociraptor 10k type

so, any of these in your list will works fine, just ask your wallet which one is good for you


----------



## Rich

JerryMeeker said:


> I need to make a decision on a 4TB eSATA drive. Looking at the offerings from WD, I see a desktop model, a NAS model, and a surveillance model. As far as I can tell, the desktop model is 7200RPM and optimized for game performance. The surveillance model seem to be optimized for 24x7 continuous operation, and is a 5400RPM model. The NAS Odell seems to be optimized for reliability, RPM unknown. I am inclined to think the surveillance model is the best choice for a DVR, if it really matters.
> 
> Anyone have any insight as to whether one of these models would be preferred over the others?


I've seen nothing but good posts about the surveillance models. I'd buy one. I'd also recommend any Blue Caviar HDD. I haven't had any HDDs that weren't WDs in years, don't worry about the speed only being 5400, the 7200 Seagate Raptors I used to use were awfully noisy, the WD 5400s are usually very quiet. And very dependable.

Rich


----------



## JerryMeeker

Rich said:


> I've seen nothing but good posts about the surveillance models. I'd buy one. I'd also recommend any Blue Caviar HDD. I haven't had any HDDs that weren't WDs in years, don't worry about the speed only being 5400, the 7200 Seagate Raptors I used to use were awfully noisy, the WD 5400s are usually very quiet. And very dependable.
> 
> Rich


Thanks for the feedback. I want to get a 4TB drive, but I am having a heck of a time finding an external drive enclosure that supports 4TB. Evidently, the enclosures have firmware that needs to support the size drive you are using. 2TB enclosures seem to be readily available, but 3TB and 4TB enclosures not so available.


----------



## inkahauts

JerryMeeker said:


> Thanks for the feedback. I want to get a 4TB drive, but I am having a heck of a time finding an external drive enclosure that supports 4TB. Evidently, the enclosures have firmware that needs to support the size drive you are using. 2TB enclosures seem to be readily available, but 3TB and 4TB enclosures not so available.


What dvr do you have?


----------



## P Smith

JerryMeeker said:


> Thanks for the feedback. I want to get a 4TB drive, but I am having a heck of a time finding an external drive enclosure that supports 4TB. Evidently, the enclosures have firmware that needs to support the size drive you are using. 2TB enclosures seem to be readily available, but 3TB and 4TB enclosures not so available.


I'm always recommend to bypass an internal controller by making a small hole/cut in the enclosure and connecting HDD with DVR by own SATA-eSATA [L-I] cable (Fry's ?). Then your enclosure will provide a power [and cooling] and will not create unnecessary SATA-"FW"-eSATA signals/protocols transforming.


----------



## Rich

JerryMeeker said:


> Thanks for the feedback. I want to get a 4TB drive, but I am having a heck of a time finding an external drive enclosure that supports 4TB. Evidently, the enclosures have firmware that needs to support the size drive you are using. 2TB enclosures seem to be readily available, but 3TB and 4TB enclosures not so available.


Just buy your enclosure from Amazon, it will probably work properly with a 4TB HDD. If it doesn't (I doubt that) return it and try a different enclosure. The makers of enclosures and docks don't seem to do much research on how big an HDD you can use in their devices, they all seem to be fixated on the 2TB limit. I know a ThermalTake Dock (if you can find one) will take a 4TB drive, for instance.

Rich


----------



## Rich

inkahauts said:


> What dvr do you have?


Kinda think he has a Genie, but good point.

Rich


----------



## JerryMeeker

inkahauts said:


> What dvr do you have?


I am poised to upgrade my system to an HR54. Just doing the research WRT being able to have an appropriately-sized hard drive. I found an enclosure yesterday on Newegg.com that shows 4TB support and ordered it. I can temporarily connect it to my desktop to make sure it sees the full 4TB storage. I am more comfortable with this approach than the one recommended by P Smith, although I appreciate all the feedback.


----------



## P Smith

JerryMeeker said:


> I am more comfortable with this approach than the one


you did reverse common sense here 
it should be: select what is more "comfortable" for your DVR and HDD, not you


----------



## JerryMeeker

FWIW, here is the drive enclosure I purchased: Orico 7618SUS3-BK Tool-Free USB 3.0 & E-SATA Interface Metal 3.5" SATA HDD Enclosure (Black) - Newegg.com.

And the 4TB hard drive: WD Purple NV Surveillance Hard Drive | Western Digital (WD).

I have installed the hard drive and connected the enclosure to my Windows desktop using USB3.0 to verify that the enclosure supports the full 4TB, and it does. I have also been running a hard drive stress test against the WD hard drive to assess whether there is any heat build-up, and to listen to the overall noise level. After hours of stress, the enclosure is barely warm to the touch. The noise level seems to be low as well. Next step: call DTV to order and schedule the installation of the HR54/C61K upgrade so that I can have 4K.

Side question: once I am up and running with the eSATA external drive, can the internal HD in the HR54 be disconnected? The reason I would consider this would be to minimize heat and noise if the internal drive is not going to be used.


----------



## doctor j

> Side question: once I am up and running with the eSATA external drive, can the internal HD in the HR54 be disconnected? The reason I would consider this would be to minimize heat and noise if the internal drive is not going to be used.


You could and it will work fine, BUT technically that's against your 'Terms of Service' to open and alter the receiver.

Doctor j


----------



## Delroy E Walleye

JerryMeeker said:


> <...
> Side question: once I am up and running with the eSATA external drive, can the internal HD in the HR54 be disconnected? The reason I would consider this would be to minimize heat and noise if the internal drive is not going to be used.


While I'm not 100% certain, I believe I've read that it's necessary to keep the internal connected, something that was changed within the last couple years.

As to my own experience with externals, while the internal drive may run a bit during a restart, I don't believe it remains spun-up.

In fact, my HR21 won't even give me a temp reading. It just says "external connected." or something to that effect.

On second thought, it might be different for genies. It's possible they do stay spun-up. Maybe someone else knows for sure. (I had an external connected to an HR44 a while back - put it inside eventually - but now I don't recall whether or not its original internal stayed on or not.) I only know for sure the HR21 doesn't.


----------



## JerryMeeker

I understand the issues with the Terms of Service when opening opening a DVR. Assume for a moment that I have an owned HR54 purchased from a source other than DTV, I have two questions:

1. Does anyone know for sure whether the DVR will continue to function if the internal drive is disconnected?
2. Can the internal hard drive be upgraded, as I have done with my owned HR24 DVR's, and is there a thread that provides guidance on how this can be done?

Apologies if the second question is a topic that should not be discussed.


----------



## inkahauts

JerryMeeker said:


> I understand the issues with the Terms of Service when opening opening a DVR. Assume for a moment that I have an owned HR54 purchased from a source other than DTV, I have two questions:
> 
> 1. Does anyone know for sure whether the DVR will continue to function if the internal drive is disconnected?
> 2. Can the internal hard drive be upgraded, as I have done with my owned HR24 DVR's, and is there a thread that provides guidance on how this can be done?
> 
> Apologies if the second question is a topic that should not be discussed.


Not sure on 1. But as for 2, yes it can be, not sure if there's ever been a specific thread on it, but it is the same basic ideas just a different case to get into. If you own your genie....


----------



## Rich

JerryMeeker said:


> I understand the issues with the Terms of Service when opening opening a DVR. Assume for a moment that I have an owned HR54 purchased from a source other than DTV, I have two questions:
> 
> 1. * Does anyone know for sure whether the DVR will continue to function if the internal drive is disconnected?*
> 2. Can the internal hard drive be upgraded, as I have done with my owned HR24 DVR's, and is there a thread that provides guidance on how this can be done?
> 
> Apologies if the second question is a topic that should not be discussed.


The 24s need the internal HDD connected. There was a time the internal could be disconnected but that changed. The 54s? I don't know. I do know the HDD you have will run cool and quiet. I also know the 54 will see the 4TBs. I own my Genie and have replaced the HDD in it with a 3TB WD drive. More than enough capacity for us.

Rich


----------



## JerryMeeker

The drive/enclosure combination I reference in Post 3461 has now been installed on my new HR54 Genie since Friday. After 48 hours of use, the enclosure is barely warm to the touch, and the drive is performing well. It seems like a winning combination so far.


----------



## bossfan50

I have a Genie HR44 which has been dying a slow death so as part of a deal I got with D* I am getting a new Genie. Don't know if I am getting another HR44 or a HR54. But anyway a couple of questions. I have a 2 TB esata with a Thermaltake Blackx enclosure. Info I am seeking probably is in this long 174 page thread that I did search but still can't understand what happens when I connect to the new Genie. I know that the esata is married to the Genie so when I connect the to the new box will the external drive automatically reformat or do I have to do something to reformat it before connecting.

Other question is since I am losing my recordings I might just decide to increase my storage capacity. What are the recommended 3tb and 4tb for the HR44 or HR54 if that is what I end up with and will my Thermaltake enclosure support 3tb or 4tb. 

Also if I get a 3tb or 4tb for the genie then I will move my current 2tb set up to a HD DVR I have so I will need another enclosure. I have had good luck with the Themaltake but is there another one that I should consider getting?


----------



## Rich

bossfan50 said:


> I have a Genie HR44 which has been dying a slow death so as part of a deal I got with D* I am getting a new Genie. Don't know if I am getting another HR44 or a HR54. But anyway a couple of questions. I have a 2 TB esata with a Thermaltake Blackx enclosure. Info I am seeking probably is in this long 174 page thread that I did search but still can't understand what happens when I connect to the new Genie. * I know that the esata is married to the Genie so when I connect the to the new box will the external drive automatically reformat or do I have to do something to reformat it before connecting.*
> 
> Other question is since I am losing my recordings I might just decide to increase my storage capacity. What are the recommended 3tb and 4tb for the HR44 or HR54 if that is what I end up with and will my Thermaltake enclosure support 3tb or 4tb.
> 
> Also if I get a 3tb or 4tb for the genie then I will move my current 2tb set up to a HD DVR I have so I will need another enclosure. I have had good luck with the Themaltake but is there another one that I should consider getting?


You don't have to do anything, just let the external HDD connect to the Genie and it will be properly formatted. No reason to use a computer on the new HDD.

Any WD HDD will work, I'd go with one of them. Your TT enclosure will work (don't pay attention to what TT says on the box as far as capacity goes). TTs are hard to find and they don't seem to be making them anymore. I'd think any dock would be worth trying.

Rich


----------



## bossfan50

Rich said:


> You don't have to do anything, just let the external HDD connect to the Genie and it will be properly formatted. No reason to use a computer on the new HDD.
> 
> Any WD HDD will work, I'd go with one of them. Your TT enclosure will work (don't pay attention to what TT says on the box as far as capacity goes). TTs are hard to find and they don't seem to be making them anymore. I'd think any dock would be worth trying.
> 
> Rich


OK thanks for the quick reply. You are a good guy for a Yankees fan (Red Sox for me).
I saw some of your posts where it looks like you have 3tb drives for yourself. Are 4tb drives not recommended?

Too bad that TT enclosures are no more I bought mine a while ago and have had no trouble with it.


----------



## P Smith

bossfan50 said:


> I know that the esata is married to the Genie


nope, it's just recordings, sans OTA, encrypted by a key from the DVR smart card
new DVR will see the list, but you cannot play, actually cannot see/listen the records


----------



## P Smith

bossfan50 said:


> What are the recommended 3tb and 4tb


it's depend on your pure habits, how many and how long you like to keep the recordings


----------



## P Smith

bossfan50 said:


> Are 4tb drives not recommended?


you can go up to 12 GB if you wish


----------



## bossfan50

P Smith said:


> nope, it's just recordings, sans OTA, encrypted by a key from the DVR smart card
> new DVR will see the list, but you cannot play, actually cannot see/listen the records





P Smith said:


> it's depend on your pure habits, how many and how long you like to keep the recordings





P Smith said:


> you can go up to 12 GB if you wish


Thanks for all the replies I appreciate it. I guess I was wondering if I go to a 4tb over a 3tb if as the drive fills up it will get too slow. But I think a 3tb or 4tb will suit my needs.


----------



## P Smith

also, you can read post#3461


----------



## Rich

bossfan50 said:


> OK thanks for the quick reply. You are a good guy for a Yankees fan (Red Sox for me).
> I saw some of your posts where it looks like you have 3tb drives for yourself. Are 4tb drives not recommended?
> 
> Too bad that TT enclosures are no more I bought mine a while ago and have had no trouble with it.


I've had a few problems with the TT enclosures, but I like them.

Rich


----------



## Rich

bossfan50 said:


> Thanks for all the replies I appreciate it. I guess I was wondering if I go to a 4tb over a 3tb if as the drive fills up it will get too slow. But I think a 3tb or 4tb will suit my needs.


I always recommend keeping an HDD half full. You'd be better off with a 4TB drive if you record a lot.

Rich


----------



## bossfan50

Rich said:


> I always recommend keeping an HDD half full. You'd be better off with a 4TB drive if you record a lot.
> 
> Rich


OK thank you. By the way I mistyped that I had a Thermaltake enclosure. It is a docking station.


----------



## codespy

I'm using a TT, for years now. Also using a WD Blue 4TB drive. They're around $120 on Amazon I believe. Rich had a post several months ago on it and it's working perfect for me.


----------



## Rich

bossfan50 said:


> OK thank you. By the way I mistyped that I had a Thermaltake enclosure. It is a docking station.


Do tell us the name of that dock, always looking for devices that work.

Rich


----------



## bossfan50

I rushed my purchase because I thought that I was going to be getting a HS17 upgrade today and I wanted the new HDD right away. Now I think I am keeping my current HR44 so I would like to know if I should exchange what I got or if it is OK.

Can someone be kind enough to let me know if the Western Digital WD40EZRZ Blue is OK for 24 X 7 DVR applications. I saw in this thread that the blues can be used but then on another forum I saw posts that the blue drives are not meant to be run in a 24 X 7 DVR application and it would be better to use the Red or Purple drives. I just don't want to lose recordings if the drive is not made for DVR usage and craps out on me. Also want to know if the WD40EZRZ drive pairs well with the Amazon.com: Vantec 3.5" SATA 6Gb/s to USB 3.0/eSATA HDD Enclosure (NST-366SU3-BK): Computers & Accessories which I saw referenced on a previous page of this post.

Last question. I have a WD20EURS 2 TB in a ThermalTake BlacX ST0005U Docking Station that I have been using with an HR44 for several years now. Can the Thermaltake support the WD40EZRZ 4 TB? If it can then my plan is to use the Thermaltake for the 4 TB WD40EZRZ on the HR44 and then I will insert the 2 TB drive in the Vantec enclosure to use on a HR22 that I still have in service.

Thank you for assistance.


----------



## P Smith

bossfan50 said:


> Can the Thermaltake support the WD40EZRZ 4 TB?


it should, but you must try it anyway


----------



## P Smith

bossfan50 said:


> Western Digital WD40EZRZ Blue is OK for 24 X 7 DVR applications



you should distinguish DVR apps like surveillance cam recordings 24/7 and sat/cable DVR be 24/7 - the devices doesn't use HDD 24/7
so, blue kind of WD drive will works OK in DTV DVR


----------



## doctor j

bossfan50 said:


> Last question. I have a WD20EURS 2 TB in a ThermalTake BlacX ST0005U Docking Station that I have been using with an HR44 for several years now. Can the Thermaltake support the WD40EZRZ 4 TB? If it can then my plan is to use the Thermaltake for the 4 TB WD40EZRZ on the HR44 and then I will insert the 2 TB drive in the Vantec enclosure to use on a HR22 that I still have in service.
> Thank you for assistance.


I have a 10 TB purple WD hard drive working in a Thermaltake BlacX dock in a Genie. Have used 2 Blue 4TB WD drives in same dock at different times in the past. No problems of any significance.

Doctor j


----------



## bossfan50

Thank you for all replies. I am going to try the WD40EZRZ in my TT dock.

What about the Vantec enclosure that I referenced in my above post. Pretty sure I clicked a link in an earlier post that suggested that enclosure. But in further research I have seen comments that the unit gets hot and may not be good for a Dvr application. So now not sure of my choice.


----------



## Rich

bossfan50 said:


> Thank you for all replies. I am going to try the WD40EZRZ in my TT dock.
> 
> What about the Vantec enclosure that I referenced in my above post. Pretty sure I clicked a link in an earlier post that suggested that enclosure. But in further research I have seen comments that the unit gets hot and may not be good for a Dvr application. So now not sure of my choice.


Enclosures don't seem to work as well as docks. I'd return the enclosure and get another dock. The TT dock will work with the 4TB drive and the Blue drives work well in my DVRs. Enclosures have fans that suck air in and dust accumulates. Dust builds up and the device heats up. How is that better than a dock? I've never had a temp problem or a dust problem with a dock and I've been using TT docks for years. I have had problems with every enclosure I've used.

Rich


----------



## bossfan50

Rich said:


> Enclosures don't seem to work as well as docks. I'd return the enclosure and get another dock. The TT dock will work with the 4TB drive and the Blue drives work well in my DVRs. Enclosures have fans that suck air in and dust accumulates. Dust builds up and the device heats up. How is that better than a dock? I've never had a temp problem or a dust problem with a dock and I've been using TT docks for years. I have had problems with every enclosure I've used.
> 
> Rich


Thank you I am going to do that.

I am not trying to be lazy but when I search on TT docks I am finding ones that are discontinued. Can you please provide an amazing link for the one that I should get?


----------



## bossfan50

bossfan50 said:


> Thank you I am going to do that.
> 
> I am not trying to be lazy but when I search on TT docks I am finding ones that are discontinued. Can you please provide an amazing link for the one that I should get?


sorry an amazon link although an amazing link would also work LOL.


----------



## Delroy E Walleye

I think they're only shipping the USB docks, now, which is unfortunate. Don't know if there are any other brand of docks that have esata.


----------



## doctor j

Delroy E Walleye said:


> I think they're only shipping the USB docks, now, which is unfortunate. Don't know if there are any other brand of docks that have esata.


Look on ebay
make certain it's the 'usb and esata' model
I found a new one a couple of weeks ago

This is the first one I came across:
Thermaltake BlacX SATA HDD eSATA/USB Docking Station (ST0005U) | eBay

Double check that it is esata capable

Doctor j


----------



## bossfan50

doctor j said:


> Look on ebay
> make certain it's the 'usb and esata' model
> I found a new one a couple of weeks ago
> 
> This is the first one I came across:
> Thermaltake BlacX SATA HDD eSATA/USB Docking Station (ST0005U) | eBay
> 
> Double check that it is esata capable
> 
> Doctor j


OK thank you again. I will look around.


----------



## Rich

bossfan50 said:


> Thank you I am going to do that.
> 
> I am not trying to be lazy but when I search on TT docks I am finding ones that are discontinued. Can you please provide an amazing link for the one that I should get?


Sure, you could have gone to Amazon and typed in the search box: *eSATA HDD docking station*. But here's the link to that search: https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_...on+esata&rh=i:aps,k:hdd+docking+station+esata

Seems like there are quite a few to pick from, I'd go with a more expensive one, but that's just me. I do get burned from time to time using that method.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Delroy E Walleye said:


> I think they're only shipping the USB docks, now, which is unfortunate. Don't know if there are any other brand of docks that have esata.


I just put a link in a post on this thread to the eSATA docks, pleasantly surprised to see how many of them are available. Here's that link: https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_...on+esata&rh=i:aps,k:hdd+docking+station+esata

Rich


----------



## Rich

doctor j said:


> Look on ebay
> make certain it's the 'usb and esata' model
> I found a new one a couple of weeks ago
> 
> This is the first one I came across:
> Thermaltake BlacX SATA HDD eSATA/USB Docking Station (ST0005U) | eBay
> 
> Double check that it is esata capable
> 
> Doctor j


I do believe that would work and the price isn't bad.

Rich


----------



## Rich

bossfan50 said:


> OK thank you again. I will look around.


Make sure it's new. I've had many problems with them when they age.

Rich


----------



## fjames

My TT crapped out a few months ago. Tried this one from Rich's link:

https://www.amazon.com/Anker®-Exter...085&sr=8-6&keywords=hdd+docking+station+esata

I think it's the same as the Orinko - maybe the one mentioned above recently.

Anyhow, it works with a WD 3TB. Turned out I had a spare TT, so put that in and leaving the Anker for a spare.

Took me a few days of messing around to figure out it was the dock all along.


----------



## P Smith

you know, if you're DIY man, you could open failed TT dock and add just direct SATA cable[I-L type] connect it directly to HDD and DVR eg bypass failed controller totally


----------



## Rich

P Smith said:


> you know, if you're DIY man, you could open failed TT dock and add just direct SATA cable[I-L type] connect it directly to HDD and DVR eg bypass failed controller totally


You keep telling folks to do that, Pete. Someday someone will do it. I'd get a kick out of that...

Rich


----------



## P Smith

I did that by myself, so it's doable by regular person with low DIY skills


----------



## Rich

P Smith said:


> I did that by myself, so it's doable by regular person with low DIY skills


I know how to do it, using yourself as an example isn't right. When you're trying to show someone something or teaching it's always best to get down to the level of expertise of that person. Making things as easy as possible always seems to return positive results.

Too many times I see posts by members who have been at the D* DVRs for years, posts about how well their equipment runs. Of course our equipment and systems run well, years of experience allows that. We're not normal D* users and I think we should assume the folks that are new here aren't gonna have the level of expertise most members have.

Again, have mercy on new folks (I can always use a bit of mercy too).

Rich


----------



## Andrepartthree

fjames said:


> My TT crapped out a few months ago. Tried this one from Rich's link:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Anker®-External-Docking-Station-Support/dp/B005UA3I72/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1505869085&sr=8-6&keywords=hdd+docking+station+esata
> 
> I think it's the same as the Orinko - maybe the one mentioned above recently.
> 
> Anyhow, it works with a WD 3TB. Turned out I had a spare TT, so put that in and leaving the Anker for a spare.
> 
> Took me a few days of messing around to figure out it was the dock all along.


fjames thank you so much for this, super helpful  ... could you help me out?  ... which model DVR do you have this hooked up to ? (I have the HR24-200 DVR but I am hoping years from now that I will be able to transfer it to a genie 1 or genie 2 someday.. years from now when they get all the kinks worked out of the genie wireless system for the genie mini's  ) ... I would LOVE to use the Thermaltake ST0005U that wiser heads than mine are recommending here on the forum  .. but it makes me nervous buying a refurbished model version of it since they don't sell it "new" from major sellers like amazon anymore  ...


----------



## P Smith

the dock's price is not that expensive to worry for lifetime use; refurbished is not bad thing - take it while you can


----------



## Andrepartthree

P Smith said:


> the dock's price is not that expensive to worry for lifetime use; refurbished is not bad thing - take it while you can


Well here's the thing though - and mind you I could be completely wrong I am a newb  .. but isn't there a chance, if i have to switch docks out, that I'll lose all my recorded shows on the hard drive attached to the new dock when I transfer the hard drive? If so that would be a real bummer  ...


----------



## P Smith

recordings does encrypted by a key from a smart card, so a dock or en enclosure wouldn't be a matter of swapping the part of the chain


----------



## Rich

Andrepartthree said:


> Well here's the thing though - and mind you I could be completely wrong I am a newb  .. but isn't there a chance, if i have to switch docks out, that I'll lose all my recorded shows on the hard drive attached to the new dock when I transfer the hard drive? If so that would be a real bummer  ...


There are ways you could lose all your recordings but a dock will not do that. I don't see any external HDD device doing that. I wouldn't worry about a refurbed dock, buy from a site where returns are easy and you'll be OK, if it doesn't work just return it. Stop worrying about which HR can use a dock, every D* HR will work with a dock. Even the Genies.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Andrepartthree said:


> Well here's the thing though - and mind you I could be completely wrong I am a newb  .. but isn't there a chance, if i have to switch docks out, that I'll lose all my recorded shows on the hard drive attached to the new dock when I transfer the hard drive? If so that would be a real bummer  ...


You do realize that content recorded on an HDD is "married" to the HR that recorded it, right? That means that only the HR that recorded that content can play that content. You cannot record content on a 24 and transfer the external HDD to another 24 and play the content that was recorded on the first 24. The content will always show up on the Playlist but it will not play. MRV allows us to play content on every HR in our accounts.

Rich


----------



## Andrepartthree

Rich said:


> You do realize that content recorded on an HDD is "married" to the HR that recorded it, right? That means that only the HR that recorded that content can play that content. You cannot record content on a 24 and transfer the external HDD to another 24 and play the content that was recorded on the first 24. The content will always show up on the Playlist but it will not play. MRV allows us to play content on every HR in our accounts.
> 
> Rich


True dat !  .... yep, I figured that once you attach an external hard drive to a DVR they're "partners for life"  , at least until you attach it to a different DVR and do the "reset" thing in the DVR's settings at which point you can use it for that DVR but you lose all the recordings  ... okay great, so if the dock fails for some reason I can just buy a new dock, insert the same hard drive and all my recordings will still be on there - awesome !  That's good to know thanks Rich !


----------



## Rich

Andrepartthree said:


> True dat !  .... yep, I figured that once you attach an external hard drive to a DVR they're "partners for life"  , at least until you attach it to a different DVR and do the "reset" thing in the DVR's settings at which point you can use it for that DVR but you lose all the recordings  ... okay great, so if the dock fails for some reason I can just buy a new dock, insert the same hard drive and all my recordings will still be on there - awesome !  That's good to know thanks Rich !


Yup, the docks or enclosures have nothing to do with the "marriage". You can swap at will.

Rich


----------



## P Smith

I wrote exactly about "encryption of recordings" ... it looks simple to comprehend


----------



## fjames

Andrepartthree said:


> fjames thank you so much for this, super helpful  ... could you help me out?  ... which model DVR do you have this hooked up to ? (I have the HR24-200 DVR but I am hoping years from now that I will be able to transfer it to a genie 1 or genie 2 someday.. years from now when they get all the kinks worked out of the genie wireless system for the genie mini's  ) ... I would LOVE to use the Thermaltake ST0005U that wiser heads than mine are recommending here on the forum  .. but it makes me nervous buying a refurbished model version of it since they don't sell it "new" from major sellers like amazon anymore  ...


Sure, it's an HR44-700. I'd go for a refurb - some say it's better since someone had to actually make sure it worked, as opposed to one just tumbling off the line. I finally got myself a dslr camera setup last year, and went refurb all the way.


----------



## Andrepartthree

fjames said:


> Sure, it's an HR44-700. I'd go for a refurb - some say it's better since someone had to actually make sure it worked, as opposed to one just tumbling off the line. I finally got myself a dslr camera setup last year, and went refurb all the way.


Thanks man


----------



## Andrepartthree

Guys, thanks to the super helpful people on this forum (shout out to Rich, Doctor J and P Smith here and everyone else who helped me out  ) I can verify that a Seagate SkyHawk 4TB Hard Drive - ( model ST4000VX007) and a Anker USB 3.0 & eSATA to SATA External Hard Drive Docking Station for 2.5 or 3.5in HDD, SSD [4TB Support] (model number) AK-68UPSHDDS-BU will work with an HR24-200 DVR (I'm posting this in case anyone else comes along looking at this thread and wants to check it out for their own future needs). I should point out that according to wiser heads than mine here on the forum  , the HR24 will only "see" 2 TB worth of that hard drive... but I got a 4 TB model with the intent to transfer it to a genie (which will "see" the whole 4 TB apparently) years later when I'm ready to make the upgrade.... Please see here

direct tv approved dvr external hd not recognized by hr24-200 :(

and here

Direct TV tech support says newest genie won't support external hard drives

if you like for more info where the kind people on this forum patiently put up with my paranoia and overall stupidity  (yes I'm serious, I'm far too paranoid and often as dumb as a bucket of rocks  )


----------



## Rich

Andrepartthree said:


> Guys, thanks to the super helpful people on this forum (shout out to Rich, Doctor J and P Smith here and everyone else who helped me out  ) I can verify that a Seagate SkyHawk 4TB Hard Drive - ( model ST4000VX007) and a Anker USB 3.0 & eSATA to SATA External Hard Drive Docking Station for 2.5 or 3.5in HDD, SSD [4TB Support] (model number) AK-68UPSHDDS-BU will work with an HR24-200 DVR (I'm posting this in case anyone else comes along looking at this thread and wants to check it out for their own future needs). I should point out that according to wiser heads than mine here on the forum  , the HR24 will only "see" 2 TB worth of that hard drive... but I got a 4 TB model with the intent to transfer it to a genie (which will "see" the whole 4 TB apparently) years later when I'm ready to make the upgrade.... Please see here
> 
> direct tv approved dvr external hd not recognized by hr24-200 :(
> 
> and here
> 
> Direct TV tech support says newest genie won't support external hard drives
> 
> if you like for more info where the kind people on this forum patiently put up with my paranoia and overall stupidity  (yes I'm serious, I'm far too paranoid and often as dumb as a bucket of rocks  )


Did you have any problems with the Anker dock? It connected faultlessly? This is important. I'd like to see another line of docks that work.

Rich


----------



## Andrepartthree

Rich said:


> Did you have any problems with the Anker dock? It connected faultlessly? This is important. I'd like to see another line of docks that work.
> 
> Rich


Absolutely faultlessly I was very pleased !  ...I was shocked actually, I figured it would take forever for the DVR to "format" the seagate skyhawk 4 TB hard drive I had connected to it ( I know it will only "see" 2 TB since it's an HR-24 model - intent is to transfer the anker and hard drive to a genie years from now when, hopefully, they've worked the kinks out of Direct TV's latest DVR offering  ) ... but my HR-24 DVR connected to the anker dock immediately (followed your advice, made sure the anker dock and hard drive were running first for a good minute, then plugged the power cord back into the HR-24 and let it do it's thing) ... the HR-24 did the usual "downloading data" green bar thing, "rebuilding the scheduler" ... then right after that when I pressed the "list" button on the remote saw there were no recorded shows, no wait time whatsoever for it to "see" and connect to the dock and hard drive ... I'm not sure if part of this is due to the seagate skyhawk being a "cousin" of the seagate pipeline that is installed inside certain direct tv DVR's (cousin as in when you lok for the seagate pipeline on amazon, amazon says "there's a newer version of this available" and directs you to the seagate skyhawk) as per this thread

HR24-200: replace INTERNAL hard drive & preserve programming

I've had the anker/seagate skyhawk record a bunch of shows already in the 24 hours it's been up and running and it's still showing as "99 percent free" so I take that as a sign it's seeing the 2 TB worth of hard drive space  ... it's in the process of downloading a bunch of shows from my old DVR via the internet (see below).

At this point I'd say the anker dock has been running for a good 24 hours straight ... just tried watching a downloaded show (you know, the direct TV service where you can download the show through the internet onto the DVR can't remember the name of the service) and no problems there either  ... the DVR did have to "re-download" all the upcoming TV shows into it's guide again (like when the DVR turns off for some reason and you have to turn it back on and it has to "load" all the TV shows back into the guide instead of that "to be announced" listing for a show) but it did that fairly quickly too, I'd say within 12 hours or so it got all that guide info back  ... the thing is though I can only speak for the Anker (model number) AK-68UPSHDDS-BU since that's the only dock I've got right now  ...

A bit nervous about my wife dusting around the area (she's a neat freak and my attempts to "clean house" do not meet up to her standards so she absolutely will NOT leave the area around the dock alone by any means  ... I shouldn't complain, good to have a clean house  ... ) , hoping she doesn't "knock" the dock while cleaning to the point where it creates problems with the hard drive  ... will wait and see what happens  ...


----------



## Rich

Andrepartthree said:


> Absolutely faultlessly I was very pleased !  ...I was shocked actually, I figured it would take forever for the DVR to "format" the seagate skyhawk 4 TB hard drive I had connected to it ( I know it will only "see" 2 TB since it's an HR-24 model - intent is to transfer the anker and hard drive to a genie years from now when, hopefully, they've worked the kinks out of Direct TV's latest DVR offering  ) ... but my HR-24 DVR connected to the anker dock immediately (followed your advice, made sure the anker dock and hard drive were running first for a good minute, then plugged the power cord back into the HR-24 and let it do it's thing) ... the HR-24 did the usual "downloading data" green bar thing, "rebuilding the scheduler" ... then right after that when I pressed the "list" button on the remote saw there were no recorded shows, no wait time whatsoever for it to "see" and connect to the dock and hard drive ... I'm not sure if part of this is due to the seagate skyhawk being a "cousin" of the seagate pipeline that is installed inside certain direct tv DVR's (cousin as in when you lok for the seagate pipeline on amazon, amazon says "there's a newer version of this available" and directs you to the seagate skyhawk) as per this thread
> 
> HR24-200: replace INTERNAL hard drive & preserve programming
> 
> I've had the anker/seagate skyhawk record a bunch of shows already in the 24 hours it's been up and running and it's still showing as "99 percent free" so I take that as a sign it's seeing the 2 TB worth of hard drive space  ... it's in the process of downloading a bunch of shows from my old DVR via the internet (see below).
> 
> At this point I'd say the anker dock has been running for a good 24 hours straight ... just tried watching a downloaded show (you know, the direct TV service where you can download the show through the internet onto the DVR can't remember the name of the service) and no problems there either  ... the DVR did have to "re-download" all the upcoming TV shows into it's guide again (like when the DVR turns off for some reason and you have to turn it back on and it has to "load" all the TV shows back into the guide instead of that "to be announced" listing for a show) but it did that fairly quickly too, I'd say within 12 hours or so it got all that guide info back  ... the thing is though I can only speak for the Anker (model number) AK-68UPSHDDS-BU since that's the only dock I've got right now  ...
> 
> A bit nervous about my wife dusting around the area (she's a neat freak and my attempts to "clean house" do not meet up to her standards so she absolutely will NOT leave the area around the dock alone by any means  ... I shouldn't complain, good to have a clean house  ... ) , hoping she doesn't "knock" the dock while cleaning to the point where it creates problems with the hard drive  ... will wait and see what happens  ...


Great! Now we can recommend the Anker docks. Thanx.

The docks are stable if left alone. Just make sure everyone knows how easy it is to screw up an eSATA device by knocking it over. That has happened to me and it's frustrating...and expensive.

Rich


----------



## Andrepartthree

Andrepartthree said:


> Guys, thanks to the super helpful people on this forum (shout out to Rich, Doctor J and P Smith here and everyone else who helped me out  ) I can verify that a Seagate SkyHawk 4TB Hard Drive - ( model ST4000VX007) and a Anker USB 3.0 & eSATA to SATA External Hard Drive Docking Station for 2.5 or 3.5in HDD, SSD [4TB Support] (model number) AK-68UPSHDDS-BU will work with an HR24-200 DVR (I'm posting this in case anyone else comes along looking at this thread and wants to check it out for their own future needs). I should point out that according to wiser heads than mine here on the forum  , the HR24 will only "see" 2 TB worth of that hard drive... but I got a 4 TB model with the intent to transfer it to a genie (which will "see" the whole 4 TB apparently) years later when I'm ready to make the upgrade.... Please see here
> 
> direct tv approved dvr external hd not recognized by hr24-200 :(
> 
> and here
> 
> Direct TV tech support says newest genie won't support external hard drives
> 
> if you like for more info where the kind people on this forum patiently put up with my paranoia and overall stupidity  (yes I'm serious, I'm far too paranoid and often as dumb as a bucket of rocks  )


Guys a little edit and update:

Been using the anker dock for 2 weeks now with no problem.... until today when I realized the dock had shut off all by itself ! Which worries me a bit, I hope these suckers are meant to run 24 hours a day 7 days a week (since of course the DVR it's attached to is also 24/7)... I emailed anker support to ask if it's designed to run 24/7.

Being used to the headaches and heartaches of devices like the "Direct TV recommended" (way back in the old days when they "officially" supported external hard drives) Western Digital My DVR Expander.. which I finally got up and running on our second DVR (HR-24-200 model) after spending ALL DAY struggling with the darn thing (unplug expander and DVR, plug in expander, wait one minute, plug in DVR... do this literally 10 freaking times, waiting every single time for DVR to cycle through and reboot and your whole day is gone ! Finally saw it on literally the 10th try ! Like Rich says stay away from the Mybook DVR expanders... but crap, since I bought it 3 years ago prior to stumbling across you helpful guys on the forum here figured I would try to continue to get some use from it.. rant over  ) ... I had my heart in my throat fulling expecting trouble as I powered the anker dock back on, hit the reset button on the DVR the anker is plugged into (also a HR-24-200 model we have two of them) ... and felt much joy as the DVR effortlessly recognized the dock and cooperated with it without any problems ! 

(EDIT AND UPDATE.. when I say it "effortlessly recognized the dock and cooperated with it without any problems ! " I mean as soon as the reset process on the DVR was complete it saw the entire list of of shows on the hard drive and I had full access to those shows , I didn't have to through the pain in the butt thing where you turn the external hard drive and DVR off, power on the EHD, wait a minute, plug in the DVR, do this over and over until the darn thing cooperates like I did with the WD DVR expander above... very painless, just turned the anker dock back on, hit the reset button on the DVR and presto, problem solved  )


----------



## P Smith

it could be simple as Anker's controller set to turn off after certain amount time of using or idling or other factor


----------



## Rich

Andrepartthree said:


> Guys a little edit and update:
> 
> Been using the anker dock for 2 weeks now with no problem.... until today when I realized the dock had shut off all by itself ! Which worries me a bit, I hope these suckers are meant to run 24 hours a day 7 days a week (since of course the DVR it's attached to is also 24/7)... I emailed anker support to ask if it's designed to run 24/7.
> 
> Being used to the headaches and heartaches of devices like the "Direct TV recommended" (way back in the old days when they "officially" supported external hard drives) Western Digital My DVR Expander.. which I finally got up and running on our second DVR (HR-24-200 model) after spending ALL DAY struggling with the darn thing (unplug expander and DVR, plug in expander, wait one minute, plug in DVR... do this literally 10 freaking times, waiting every single time for DVR to cycle through and reboot and your whole day is gone ! Finally saw it on literally the 10th try ! Like Rich says stay away from the Mybook DVR expanders... but crap, since I bought it 3 years ago prior to stumbling across you helpful guys on the forum here figured I would try to continue to get some use from it.. rant over  ) ... I had my heart in my throat fulling expecting trouble as I powered the anker dock back on, hit the reset button on the DVR the anker is plugged into (also a HR-24-200 model we have two of them) ... and felt much joy as the DVR effortlessly recognized the dock and cooperated with it without any problems !


Don't see why a dock would not be made for 24/7 use. Do you have the dock on a UPS? The only thing I can think of is a loss of power. I've used docks for years and never had one shutdown randomly.

Rich


----------



## Rich

P Smith said:


> it could be simple as Anker's controller set to turn off after certain amount time of using or idling or other factor


I think that's a level of sophistication that would be more than strange in such an inexpensive device and why would you need that? The docks are obviously made for continuous operation.

Rich


----------



## Andrepartthree

Thanks so much you guys for all the quick replies you guys are awesome  .. no, actually it's not on an uninterruptible power supply I should probably look into that  .. here's the strange thing though.. the power shut off ONLY on the anker dock, everything else was still powered on... strangest thing... I will post an update when/if anker support gets back to me though I don't have high hopes they will have anything useful to say  (I'd say from past experience if you get a tech support agent who knows what they're doing at any organization you're very , very lucky  )


----------



## Rich

Andrepartthree said:


> Thanks so much you guys for all the quick replies you guys are awesome  .. no, actually it's not on an uninterruptible power supply I should probably look into that  .. here's the strange thing though.. the power shut off ONLY on the anker dock, everything else was still powered on... strangest thing... I will post an update when/if anker support gets back to me though I don't have high hopes they will have anything useful to say  (I'd say from past experience if you get a tech support agent who knows what they're doing at any organization you're very , very lucky  )


I don't think I've ever had a dock that wasn't on a UPS device, but the HRs will come right back on after a power outage, I'm not sure a dock would/could. I can't see anything in a dock that would cause random shutdowns. I'd suggest getting a UPS device, I use these from Costco:
CyberPower 1500VA 900Watts Simulated Sine Wave UPS With GreenPower Technology | Costco

Easy to use, just plug and play, no learning curve, very dependable. Good bang for the buck...You can buy these on Amazon, but they are more expensive there. Plus you get at least a 90 day return policy from Costco, where returns are really easy.

Rich


----------



## P Smith

Could it someone at home accidentally turned off the dock ?


----------



## Andrepartthree

Thank you all for your replies  ... Rich thanks for the info on the UPS... unfortunately I have to answer to a higher authority within the household 

Given my W.D. DVR Expander was over 3 years old and I wanted to put even more storage on the "main" TV we grownups watch, I purchased the anker dock/seagate skyhawk hard drive (I know I know, you already know this  ) ... my wife was VEHEMENTLY opposed to it and only reluctantly gave in ... if I purchase a $130 UPS to hook up to it on top of that she'll go through the roof  ... she has issues with the money I spent on the anker dock/seagate hard drive already plus she objects strenuously to what she considers to be "clutter" ... don't get me wrong I'm NOT saying I agree with her, quite the opposite really but... (sighs)... I'm sure everyone knows how it is, someone rules the household and it's not the husband  (I know I know that sounds very male chauvinist  .. but often true !  ) ... but thank you for the advice I just wish I could go ahead and do it ! 

P Smith thank you for your post  ... every family member was carefully questioned when I saw what happened, they all insist they didn't turn off the dock.

Amazon customer service rocks though (in my opinion anyways  ) ... I explained how the random shut off thing could be bad if it occurs on a continuous basis, and going through the normal amazon return policy (mail in old dock, order new dock, wait for it to arrive) isn't good since we're without TV that entire time... amazon generously offered one day shipping free of charge which I took them up on  ... so when the new dock (same one, anker - sticking with a dock that I know will cooperate with the DVR !  ) arrives will swap it old with the old dock (will return old dock to amazon), cross my fingers and hope it was just a matter of the old dock being defective  .. and of course will post my progress here especially if the replacement dock does the same thing (though there was another thread where dc_soccerdude mentioned he used the same anker dock successfully on his DVR, I'm guessing he had his dock running 24/7 too  ... will start a private conversation with him and ask him how the dock has been working out for him long term and post the results back here  )

eSATA - DIRECTV recommended list


----------



## jimmie57

Andrepartthree said:


> Thank you all for your replies  ... Rich thanks for the info on the UPS... unfortunately I have to answer to a higher authority within the household
> 
> Given my W.D. DVR Expander was over 3 years old and I wanted to put even more storage on the "main" TV we grownups watch, I purchased the anker dock/seagate skyhawk hard drive (I know I know, you already know this  ) ... my wife was VEHEMENTLY opposed to it and only reluctantly gave in ... if I purchase a $130 UPS to hook up to it on top of that she'll go through the roof  ... she has issues with the money I spent on the anker dock/seagate hard drive already plus she objects strenuously to what she considers to be "clutter" ... don't get me wrong I'm NOT saying I agree with her, quite the opposite really but... (sighs)... I'm sure everyone knows how it is, someone rules the household and it's not the husband  (I know I know that sounds very male chauvinist  .. but often true !  ) ... but thank you for the advice I just wish I could go ahead and do it !
> 
> P Smith thank you for your post  ... every family member was carefully questioned when I saw what happened, they all insist they didn't turn off the dock.
> 
> Amazon customer service rocks though (in my opinion anyways  ) ... I explained how the random shut off thing could be bad if it occurs on a continuous basis, and going through the normal amazon return policy (mail in old dock, order new dock, wait for it to arrive) isn't good since we're without TV that entire time... amazon generously offered one day shipping free of charge which I took them up on  ... so when the new dock (same one, anker - sticking with a dock that I know will cooperate with the DVR !  ) arrives will swap it old with the old dock (will return old dock to amazon), cross my fingers and hope it was just a matter of the old dock being defective  .. and of course will post my progress here especially if the replacement dock does the same thing (though there was another thread where dc_soccerdude mentioned he used the same anker dock successfully on his DVR, I'm guessing he had his dock running 24/7 too  ... will start a private conversation with him and ask him how the dock has been working out for him long term and post the results back here  )
> 
> eSATA - DIRECTV recommended list


To counteract blips in the AC power supplied a small UPS does nicely. Mine ( 3 ) cost $49 each and have been working since July 2009 now. Once the power went out for an hour and they quit working after about 40 minutes ( TV was off during this time, just supporting the DVR ).


----------



## P Smith

jimmie57 said:


> have been working for 4 years now


it's time to replace batteries inside (when worked in IT, we did regular tests on each UPS _monthly_ and has three years before change them)


----------



## Rich

Andrepartthree said:


> Thank you all for your replies  ... Rich thanks for the info on the UPS... unfortunately I have to answer to a higher authority within the household
> 
> Given my W.D. DVR Expander was over 3 years old and I wanted to put even more storage on the "main" TV we grownups watch, I purchased the anker dock/seagate skyhawk hard drive (I know I know, you already know this  ) ... my wife was VEHEMENTLY opposed to it and only reluctantly gave in ... if I purchase a $130 UPS to hook up to it on top of that she'll go through the roof  ... she has issues with the money I spent on the anker dock/seagate hard drive already plus she objects strenuously to what she considers to be "clutter" ... don't get me wrong I'm NOT saying I agree with her, quite the opposite really but... (sighs)... I'm sure everyone knows how it is, someone rules the household and it's not the husband  (I know I know that sounds very male chauvinist  .. but often true !  ) ... but thank you for the advice I just wish I could go ahead and do it !
> 
> P Smith thank you for your post  ... every family member was carefully questioned when I saw what happened, they all insist they didn't turn off the dock.
> 
> Amazon customer service rocks though (in my opinion anyways  ) ... I explained how the random shut off thing could be bad if it occurs on a continuous basis, and going through the normal amazon return policy (mail in old dock, order new dock, wait for it to arrive) isn't good since we're without TV that entire time... amazon generously offered one day shipping free of charge which I took them up on  ... so when the new dock (same one, anker - sticking with a dock that I know will cooperate with the DVR !  ) arrives will swap it old with the old dock (will return old dock to amazon), cross my fingers and hope it was just a matter of the old dock being defective  .. and of course will post my progress here especially if the replacement dock does the same thing (though there was another thread where dc_soccerdude mentioned he used the same anker dock successfully on his DVR, I'm guessing he had his dock running 24/7 too  ... will start a private conversation with him and ask him how the dock has been working out for him long term and post the results back here  )
> 
> eSATA - DIRECTV recommended list


I think a replacement is the best way to go. I gave the TT docks some thought and the power switch on them is manual and stays locked to "On" if the power goes off, that means the dock will work when the power comes back on. Must be something in the original Anker dock you purchased. You did well with Amazon.

Rich


----------



## Rich

P Smith said:


> it's time to replace batteries inside (when worked in IT, we did regular tests on each UPS _monthly_ and has three years before change them)


I have 3 of the smaller UPS devices and they've been running for more years than three. I just about can't have a power outage that lasts more than 20 seconds so the batteries aren't used very long if the power goes out. I have a whole home generator.

Rich


----------



## P Smith

you know, it's not professional approach if you don't base it on maintenance and schedule
I'm predict one day your power will go off and the UPS will not hold 5 min


----------



## Rich

P Smith said:


> you know, it's not professional approach if you don't base it on maintenance and schedule
> I'm predict one day your power will go off and the UPS will not hold 5 min


20 seconds is what the generator takes to come on when the power goes off, did you not understand that? The batteries are hardly used and I expect to get a lot more use out of those UPS devices...

Rich


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## P Smith

sorry, you are not informed about battery's chemistry and internal processes during its life

just an example - car's battery


----------



## Rich

P Smith said:


> sorry, you are not informed about battery's chemistry and internal processes during its life
> 
> just an example - car's battery


You should stop arguing, I got your point. I don't think whatever protocols you had in your IT department are valid or useful in my case. See the part of the last sentence I just wrote, the part where it says "I don't think"? Just my opinion, you can write what you like, it's not gonna change my opinion.

Rich


----------



## Andrepartthree

Hi guys thanks so much for all your replies 

Jimmy57 or Rich, the small UPS you mentioned that lasted you so long  .. would you happen to have the name or model number or an amazon link so I can look it up? I might be able to convince my wife (after much hollering on her part  ) to let me go with a small UPS depending on the size 

I have a story for you guys re: the replacement anker dock, strangest thing! I feel sorry for poor amazon too, sent me a replacement dock that I'm going to end up not using 

So I got the replacement anker dock (exact same model number and everything), unplugged the DVR and old anker dock, waited one minute (I dunno, maybe the problem was I should have waited longer than a minute?) to try and make sure the hard drive was "powered down"... took out the hard drive and put it into the new anker dock... in an earlier post I'd mentioned the hard drive (seagate skyhawk) worked flawlessly with the older anker dock the moment I plugged it in as far as cooperating instantly with the DVR, so I was convinced I would have a similar experience with the new dock.

My heart sunk to my chest when this did not happen.. I could not even hear the hard drive powering on or spinning up when I put my ear to it and the indicator light that flashes red and blue indicating the hard drive is functioning was not doing that... I sure hope I don't have a bad hard drive at this point  (loathe to give up the hard drive since it already has a bunch of shows on it but if it continues to be a problem ... ) ... I followed the advice of wiser heads than mine (i.e. Rich's  ) of course  , unplug both DVR and dock, turn on dock, wait one full minute, then turn on DVR.. though of course if I can't hear the hard drive powering up after that minute's wait then this probably won't do much good  ... did this about three times with the new anker dock, no joy.

Then I plugged the old anker dock that was working just fine (minus that one "blip" where it shut off on it's own for no apparent reason) and .. same problem, hard drive not powering up... tried to fight the panic of losing all my recorded TV shows (okay definitely not a life and death situation  , as people who have interacted with me on my posts have probably noticed I worry way too much to begin with  ... but still, not a lot of fun) ... unplug both DVR and dock, wait a minute for the dock, plug in dock, plug in DVR)... finally after the fourth try (with the old dock) my heart jumped for joy when I saw that the old anker dock started cooperating and recognized the hard drive again and I had access to my recorded TV shows and scheduled recordings once again.

So right now everything is fine... I think at this point I'm just going to leave well enough alone and stick with the old anker dock, apologize like heck to amazon and ask if I can return the replacement dock they sent to me (I feel really bad about them spending whatever it is they spend to ship the replacement dock to me practically overnight but.. don't want to mess with the dock any further I'm too afraid to do that  ) ...going to cross my fingers and hope it shutting off on it's own is a one time thing though you guys are right, I think I definitely have to look into that UPS (again, provided I can get my wife's approval  )

I'm going to keep an eye out for a thermaltake dock too in case the anker dock fails completely (and who knows, again maybe it was just a one time blip and it will serve me faithfully for years afterwards? Will post back here of course if there are any further anker dock problems so people know at least who are considering buying one  ) ..... my big problem is that you have to buy it from a third party seller for about sixty dollars or so in brand new shrink wrapped condition from what I've seen - and I have an issue with third party sellers (as opposed to "big" sellers like amazon, walmart, et cetera with their easy-to-return policies) in terms of third party sellers not being terribly happy if there's a problem and you need to return their merchandise (not all but some have reacted that way)... darn shame they discontinued it or don't sell it anymore or whatever it is they did with the thermaltakes  ... if I see a brand new one with a "fulfilled by amazon" condition attached to it will definitely jump on that since amazon makes it's return policy so hassle free 

Oh, anker tech support got back to me and they say that the dock is indeed designed to run 24/7 (though not sure what they mean by turning it off when not in use right after they said it's designed to run 24/7 .. maybe they're saying that due to the issue I reported with it shutting off unexpectedly the one time?)... here's a copy and paste of what they said to me (needless to say I am NOT unplugging it and testing it on a computer, it's working again and I plan on leaving it alone as is thank you very much !  )

" Dear Andre,

Thank you for writing to us and letting us know your concern. Sorry for late reply.

We are sorry to hear that you're experiencing problems with your Anker dock. In order to offer better service, would you please let me know the order number for this product first? If it does not cause too much trouble, would you please unplug the dock from your computer and try the dock with a different computer to see if the same issue happens.

We understand that you want to know if the Anker dock was built to run 24 hours a day, 7 days a week on a continuous basis. Yes, it is supported. But in order to better use, we recommend breaking off the device when you do not use it.

Please keep us updated and be assured if the problem is with our product, we will be more than happy to exchange it for a new one or issue refund per your preference.

Thanks for your support and time. We look forward to your reply."


----------



## Andrepartthree

Rich said:


> I think a replacement is the best way to go. I gave the TT docks some thought and the power switch on them is manual and stays locked to "On" if the power goes off, that means the dock will work when the power comes back on. Must be something in the original Anker dock you purchased. You did well with Amazon.
> 
> Rich


oh forgot to mention ! The anker dock does have it's own on/off power switch on the dock too but no idea if it remains locked to on like the thermaltake does...


----------



## jimmie57

UPS
This is the ones I bought but they are no longer available in the 550 size. There is a 425 and a 650 size available. Also a little different look 600 size.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0019804U8/ref=twister_B074FYQPL8?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## Rich

Andrepartthree said:


> Hi guys thanks so much for all your replies
> 
> Jimmy57 or Rich, the small UPS you mentioned that lasted you so long  .. would you happen to have the name or model number or an amazon link so I can look it up? I might be able to convince my wife (after much hollering on her part  ) to let me go with a small UPS depending on the size


Here's a similar UPS device, the devices I have I bought from a local Circuit City and they must be pretty old. Here's the link: https://www.amazon.com/APC-Back-UPS...ds=ups+battery+backup+&+surge+protector&psc=1

Rich


----------



## Rich

Andrepartthree said:


> oh forgot to mention ! The anker dock does have it's own on/off power switch on the dock too but no idea if it remains locked to on like the thermaltake does...


I've always had problems getting external devices set up. The docks either connect quickly or it takes multiple attempts. What you saw was probably normal. They can be a royal PITA, but once they start working properly they keep working. Gotta have patience.

Rich


----------



## Rich

jimmie57 said:


> UPS
> This is the ones I bought but they are no longer available in the 550 size. There is a 425 and a 650 size available. Also a little different look 600 size.
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0019804U8/ref=twister_B074FYQPL8?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1


I just did a quick search for when CC closed its doors. 2009. When I bought the small UPS devices CC was still a viable retail entity, I've had those little suckers for a long time.

Rich


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## jimmie57

Rich said:


> I just did a quick search for when CC closed its doors. 2009. When I bought the small UPS devices CC was still a viable retail entity, I've had those little suckers for a long time.
> 
> Rich


I was very surprised when I looked in my receipts ( pdf files ) and discovered when I had actually bought them. I got them on sale at Amazon.


----------



## Andrepartthree

Thank you guys so much for the links to the UPS will definitely look into them 

One thing that's hilarious about amazon (albeit not in a good way  ) is that they group product reviews for a variety of different models all together under one listing not that helpful when you're interested in info on a particular model !  (one of the few failures of amazon in my opinion) ... obviously of course if I have you guys telling me these are good then that is far more valuable info that I will take far more seriously than some negative review on amazon grouching about the UPS  ... thanks again guys 



Rich said:


> I've always had problems getting external devices set up. The docks either connect quickly or it takes multiple attempts. What you saw was probably normal. They can be a royal PITA, but once they start working properly they keep working. Gotta have patience.
> 
> Rich


This is good to know, thank you  ... I am so dense I actually had to google what PITA meant !  .. " Pain in the "... um, posterior  ...


----------



## P Smith

as to convert USB dock to eSATA - see my post direct tv approved dvr external hd not recognized by hr24-200 :(


----------



## Andrepartthree

P Smith said:


> as to convert USB dock to eSATA - see my post direct tv approved dvr external hd not recognized by hr24-200 :(


Oh I see...with a little jury rigging I could turn that usb-only thermaltake dock amazon sells into into an esata dock ... got it, thanks for the heads up


----------



## Rich

Andrepartthree said:


> Thank you guys so much for the links to the UPS will definitely look into them
> This is good to know, thank you  ... I am so dense I actually had to google what PITA meant !  .. " Pain in the "... um, posterior  ...


eSATA devices have always been problematic, the enclosures and the docks. I've had a lot of different devices and never found one that...just worked. While the docks can be a PITA, they are more reliable than enclosures, I think. Only problems I've ever had were the Power switches and the difficulty I always seem to have getting the docks and HRs to connect. The connection process, no matter how careful you are, is always hard and takes several attempts. I bought all my HRs hoping I could avoid the external HDDs but that one HR24-200...it's like Samsung said, "Let's make this as difficult as we can."

Rich


----------



## Rich

Andrepartthree said:


> Oh I see...with a little jury rigging I could turn that usb-only thermaltake dock amazon sells into into an esata dock ... got it, thanks for the heads up


Would make Pete very happy, were you to do that!

Rich


----------



## Andrepartthree

This thread here has some more info on the thermaltake docks Rich recommends 

direct tv approved dvr external hd not recognized by hr24-200 :(

and see also the earlier page in this thread , page 40 I think

eSATA - DIRECTV recommended list

Chuck W was kind enough to get back to me today despite the fact he's no longer a Direct TV customer which is particularly kind of him  .. I asked him about the thermaltake one and two hard drive dock versions and he said

" I've been away from Directv for a couple years ago, but if I remember right, the issue I had was with the double dock which can hold two drives. The one that could hold a single drive worked well with my hr34. I did have the double working with one of my hr24's but I don't remember if it was a 100 or 200. This was a couple years ago though, so the firmware these day may have changed to the point they don't work anymore. "

I would have hit the "quote" button so you could all see it was directly from him but.. not seeing a "quote" button in the "start a conversation" part of this website, guessing it's unavailable?

Anyways if Rich says the thermaltake docks work needless to say I believe him , not trying to imply otherwise  ... I'm actually looking for a used version (chancy I know) thermaltake black x dock on ebay now as a cheap temporary backup in case my anker dock runs into problems and need to RMA it for a replacement


----------



## jimmie57

Update on battery life in a UPS.
Yesterday my power went out early in the morning. It was out for more than 2 hours. My UPS batteries usually keep thing alive for 35 minutes. My UPS' were purchased in 2009. The batteries lasted 24 minutes yesterday before they shut down.


----------



## Andrepartthree

Okay REALLY strange thing with my anker dock (model AK-68UPSHDDS-BU ) and 4 GB seagate skyhawk hard drive (model ST4000VX007) on my DVR... 

So the darn hard drive "hiccupped" and choked when I was looking at the list of Dr. Who episodes to choose which to record (there were a lot of them  ) ... and then the DVR "forgot" that the external hard drive existed.

Followed the normal procedure of unplug DVR and hard drive, plug in hard drive, wait a minute, plug in DVR, didn't work... this is the strange thing... external hard drive would not spin up until and unless the DVR was also powered on (or that's what I assume anyways, could not hear any activity by putting my ear to the hard drive)... which of course meant when I unplugged both then plugged in the hard drive no joy, DVR didn't see it since hard drive not going.

So I tried unplugging the DVR while I could still hear the hard drive's internal workings in it's dock... and it worked, saw the pink/blue flashing light of joy on the dock immediately indicating it's cooperating with the DVR 

Strangest thing though.. don't know if it's peculiar to the anker dock, this particular kind of hard drive or my DVR (refurbished from Direct TV) is just "wonky". I mention this primarily in case this advice helps anyone else with an anker dock and/or seagate skyhawk hard drive if this happens to them (though again it could be just some sort of weird freak thing that just affects me? Not sure  )


----------



## P Smith

there are two possible moments - the HDD would start spinning after getting some cmd, not just powering up and a controller inside of the enclosure could have similar settings plus one one - timeout of inactivity to spin down the HDD


----------



## Steveknj

I haven't looked into adding an external for awhile. I have an HR54. Is eSata still the only way to go?


----------



## P Smith

yes


----------



## Rich

Andrepartthree said:


> Okay REALLY strange thing with my anker dock (model AK-68UPSHDDS-BU ) and 4 GB seagate skyhawk hard drive (model ST4000VX007) on my DVR...
> 
> So the darn hard drive "hiccupped" and choked when I was looking at the list of Dr. Who episodes to choose which to record (there were a lot of them  ) ... and then the DVR "forgot" that the external hard drive existed.
> 
> Followed the normal procedure of unplug DVR and hard drive, plug in hard drive, wait a minute, plug in DVR, didn't work... this is the strange thing... external hard drive would not spin up until and unless the DVR was also powered on (or that's what I assume anyways, could not hear any activity by putting my ear to the hard drive)... which of course meant when I unplugged both then plugged in the hard drive no joy, DVR didn't see it since hard drive not going.
> 
> So I tried unplugging the DVR while I could still hear the hard drive's internal workings in it's dock... and it worked, saw the pink/blue flashing light of joy on the dock immediately indicating it's cooperating with the DVR
> 
> Strangest thing though.. don't know if it's peculiar to the anker dock, this particular kind of hard drive or my DVR (refurbished from Direct TV) is just "wonky". I mention this primarily in case this advice helps anyone else with an anker dock and/or seagate skyhawk hard drive if this happens to them (though again it could be just some sort of weird freak thing that just affects me? Not sure  )


That's new, never heard of that happening. You did the setup correctly. I have no idea why that happened. You did well with your workaround. Kudos.

Rich


----------



## Andrepartthree

Rich said:


> That's new, never heard of that happening. You did the setup correctly. I have no idea why that happened. You did well with your workaround. Kudos.
> 
> Rich


Thanks man I appreciate that  .... that means a lot coming from you (seriously, you're like a total expert on these things  )


----------



## bluegrill

Does anyone know the answer to this: if you connect an external drive to an HR44 does the internal drive continue to spin? Also, if you were to come across an HR44 with the lid off (somebody else opened it up) could you disconnect the power to the internal drive and would the unit run OK with just the external drive powered up?


----------



## WestDC

bluegrill said:


> Does anyone know the answer to this: if you connect an external drive to an HR44 does the internal drive continue to spin? Also, if you were to come across an HR44 with the lid off (somebody else opened it up) could you disconnect the power to the internal drive and would the unit run OK with just the external drive powered up?


Internal drive is disabled (does not spin) if did find a unit opened -It would be better just to replace the internal drive rather than unplug it.

When you disconnect the external drive -upon the next reboot -it will still have all the data that was stored on it -old recording would still be there and be able to watch you would then be able to add any new shows that you wanted,.


----------



## bluegrill

Thanks for that info. I'm thinking that the person who opened that hr44 might just leave the internal drive in there in case it ever had to be returned. Then he wouldn't have to open it and swap drives again. Just a thought.


----------



## Rich

bluegrill said:


> Does anyone know the answer to this: if you connect an external drive to an HR44 does the internal drive continue to spin? Also, if you were to come across an HR44 with the lid off (somebody else opened it up) could you disconnect the power to the internal drive and would the unit run OK with just the external drive powered up?


There was a time that you could take the internal HDD out and just use an eSATA setup, don't know if you still can do that. I tried it once, the HR ran correctly without the internal drive. Yeah, you wouldn't have to actually remove the internal HDD, just pop off the two connectors.

Rich


----------



## bluegrill

How long should it take to xfsdump 1T of recordings onto 4T drive with gparted. I'm just passing the 4 hour mark. Should I be worried? The drive activity led is still on so I guess something is happening.


----------



## Rich

bluegrill said:


> How long should it take to xfsdump 1T of recordings onto 4T drive with gparted. I'm just passing the 4 hour mark. Should I be worried? The drive activity led is still on so I guess something is happening.


Can't help you with that, I've never seen the need to do that. Pete could answer that question, where are you Pete? Have patience, Pete will appear...

Rich


----------



## jimmie57

bluegrill said:


> How long should it take to xfsdump 1T of recordings onto 4T drive with gparted. I'm just passing the 4 hour mark. Should I be worried? The drive activity led is still on so I guess something is happening.


Wild guess assuming the drives can read and write at 2 gbps, 9 hours


----------



## bluegrill

So the transfer finished in about 6 hours. I was away from the computer for a couple of hours so its an approximation. One interesting observation. As I scrolled back through the text on the terminal window while I was waiting and wondering I saw something interesting. I know next to nothing about linux commands so I was just typing what was posted here. I was making a lot of mistakes and had to backspace, etc. I noticed that there were 3 times in the log where it looks like the dump was terminated and then retried. Then eventually it went ahead. It looks like gparted actually corrected a typo in one of the command lines and proceeded with the dump. I didn't know an app like gparted would have the ability to deduce my intent and correct the command. I'm pretty sure thats what happened. Thanks for the input, guys.


----------



## P Smith

the time is depend on a few factors: type of interface - SATA/USB, CPU/RAM speed, amount of data (the process just copy data, not whole drive), etc
seems to me you got it fast enough not to worry
as to the self correction ... may be; just remember when you boot from GPartEd CD, you do run minimal version of Linux, what made for small amount of tasks - GPartEd is a program to maintain drives, while you using other part of Linux - XFS utilities.


----------



## 6ft8incyclist

I have the Genie2.. I had lot of problems with it a while back.. Dtv sent a big update to it and now my eStata port no longer works.. I just got off the phone with Dtv and Angie the CSR confirmed that Dtv had disabled all eStata on the Genies.. WTF I am not happy!!!!!!!!


----------



## JerryMeeker

That would be a surprise to me—I continue to use an external eSATA with my HR54, and I am on the latest software.


----------



## P Smith

6ft8incyclist said:


> I just got off the phone with Dtv and Angie the CSR confirmed that Dtv had disabled all eStata on the Genies.. WTF I am not happy!!!!!!!!


WTF - you are spreading nonsense ?
It was pointed here MANY TIMES (!!!) - CSR is technically useless employees !


----------



## NewDTVguy

New member here who just wanted to thank everyone for previous posts which helped me set up my external drive for a new HR54. Everything went great - recording the olympics now. After reviewing several DBS threads I settled on a 4TB seagate seahawk surveillance drive with a startech dock. Was going to go with a WD nas red nas drive but read several comments that nas drives are better suited to handing smaller file sizes in servers and seagate actually performed better on tests handling video files. I was leary about the Startech dock (U33EBV) as I never associated them with high quality products before but it had good reviews on amazon - and had a free esata cable. Also bought a small APC ups to ensure power quality. Total cost was roughly $200. I did unplug my HR 54 and waited until the drive had been running for 2 minutes before powering. DTV startup screen went through a formatting of the drive which took a couple of minutes. So far very pleased - will let everyone know status in a few months.


----------



## Rich

JerryMeeker said:


> That would be a surprise to me-I continue to use an external eSATA with my HR54, and I am on the latest software.


I'm shocked! Misinformation from a D* CSR...who'd a thunk it?

Rich


----------



## NewDTVguy

NewDTVguy said:


> New member here who just wanted to thank everyone for previous posts which helped me set up my external drive for a new HR54. Everything went great - recording the olympics now. After reviewing several DBS threads I settled on a 4TB seagate seahawk surveillance drive with a startech dock. Was going to go with a WD nas red nas drive but read several comments that nas drives are better suited to handing smaller file sizes in servers and seagate actually performed better on tests handling video files. I was leary about the Startech dock (U33EBV) as I never associated them with high quality products before but it had good reviews on amazon - and had a free esata cable. Also bought a small APC ups to ensure power quality. Total cost was roughly $200. I did unplug my HR 54 and waited until the drive had been running for 2 minutes before powering. DTV startup screen went through a formatting of the drive which took a couple of minutes. So far very pleased - will let everyone know status in a few months.


Well I didnt make it two days let alone two months - the first few records went fine and then the genie slowed down to the point of being unusable. Reading other posts it seems like the HR54 is very finicky about external drives. May try anothe docking station as I was always suspicious about startech. Sigh


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## Rich

NewDTVguy said:


> Well I didnt make it two days let alone two months - the first few records went fine and then the genie slowed down to the point of being unusable. Reading other posts it seems like the HR54 is very finicky about external drives. May try anothe docking station as I was always suspicious about startech. Sigh


The 54 actually slowed down? I don't see an external HDD doing that unless it's full. Might be the dock but I've never seen any reason a new HDD would cause any DVR to slow down. Did you take the external HDD off and try the internal HDD? That would give you some idea about what's wrong.

Rich


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## NewDTVguy

Rich said:


> The 54 actually slowed down? I don't see an external HDD doing that unless it's full. Might be the dock but I've never seen any reason a new HDD would cause any DVR to slow down. Did you take the external HDD off and try the internal HDD? That would give you some idea about what's wrong.
> 
> Rich


I did go back to the internal and everything worked fine. When I hooked up the external to my laptop it showed 4 separate volumes. I went ahead and delete them thinking maybe the genie found one of the small volumes. Anyway I reconnected and am trying again. It works ok now but the problem didnt start immediately before. I am concerned that the dtv message showing the drive was being formatted only took about 10 secs - which seems fast for a 4 TB drive. We'll see how it goes this time


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## P Smith

NewDTVguy said:


> I am concerned that the dtv message showing the drive was being formatted only took about 10 secs - which seems fast for a 4 TB drive.


it been answered, the formatting is a short process writing a FEW sectors to a drive


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## Rich

NewDTVguy said:


> *I did go back to the internal and everything worked fine.* When I hooked up the external to my laptop it showed 4 separate volumes. I went ahead and delete them thinking maybe the genie found one of the small volumes. Anyway I reconnected and am trying again. It works ok now but the problem didnt start immediately before. I am concerned that the dtv message showing the drive was being formatted only took about 10 secs - which seems fast for a 4 TB drive. We'll see how it goes this time


That's what I was looking for. Can you still return/exchange both the HDD and the dock? Let me find a dock that I have a bit of faith in...can't find one. Nuts. I gotta say the Startechs look like they'd work properly. Did yours have any problems hooking up to the HR? If it hooked up properly...it should work properly. I've had a lot of docks and the only issues I've had were with a goofy power switch. Once I got them to connect they always worked as they should. Might be the HDD. I know that can't possibly be full but it sounds like what a full HDD would do. Easiest thing you can do is send the HDD back, buy a WD Blue Caviar drive (I know they work well with HRs) and try another dock. You have proved it's either the dock and the HDD. I think.

One more thing, the HDDs are only formatted once when you stick them on an HR. Is that what you referred to? Just that one time?

Rich


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## codespy

FWIW- Last week I plugged in new 6TB WD Blue drive from Amazon into my TT external dock, reinstalled my 80+ series links (using the old GUI of course) and everything is working perfectly. It’s running on my HR54. Like Rich said, go with the WD Blues. Been running them for a couple years now without any issues, very happy.


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## NewDTVguy

codespy said:


> FWIW- Last week I plugged in new 6TB WD Blue drive from Amazon into my TT external dock, reinstalled my 80+ series links (using the old GUI of course) and everything is working perfectly. It's running on my HR54. Like Rich said, go with the WD Blues. Been running them for a couple years now without any issues, very happy.


May do that. I just got home and the hr54 has frozen again - have to unplug it as the power button will not respond. Really strange. I initially just connected the drive as received. After the first failure i connected the seagate hd to my laptop via usb and found four separate volumes which I deleted. I have been travelling all day and will look into it some more tomorrow. I'm still not sure it is not using a hidden volume or something because it seems like it is running out of room after - 8 to 10 shows have been recorded.


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## Rich

NewDTVguy said:


> May do that. I just got home and the hr54 has frozen again - have to unplug it as the power button will not respond. Really strange. I initially just connected the drive as received. After the first failure i connected the seagate hd to my laptop via usb and found four separate volumes which I deleted. I have been travelling all day and will look into it some more tomorrow. I'm still not sure it is not using a hidden volume or something because it seems like it is running out of room after - 8 to 10 shows have been recorded.


All these years using external HDDs and do you have any idea how many times I have put one of those HDDs on a computer...I can tell you exactly...never. Trust the system, it's simple. Just put a new, blank HDD in the dock and let the HR format the HDD. So simple. And the only problems I have had with HDDs is length of time in use...they tend to fail after 5 years or get so noisy you have to get rid of them. So simple. I used 5 years, but I have HDDs that have been in use far longer than that.

I think you're gonna end up replacing that HDD.

Rich


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## Delroy E Walleye

Rich is right.

I can attest to the likelihood of the DVR reformatting after a connection to a laptop (Windows "did" something to the HDD that the DVR didn't "like" - simply by installing its own "driver" or something).


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## NewDTVguy

Delroy E Walleye said:


> Rich is right.
> 
> I can attest to the likelihood of the DVR reformatting after a connection to a laptop (Windows "did" something to the HDD that the DVR didn't "like" - simply by installing its own "driver" or something).


I did initially use the hdd right out of the box. It was only after it failed the first time that I connected it to my laptop via usb and found 4 separate partitions. The dvr evidently creates these during the format process. The partitions/drives are not recognized by windows 10 as readable. I am thinking about deleting the partitions again and trying a low level format.

Thanks for the comments. I am leary that the WD blue drive may not work with my dock - not sure I want to pony up another $100 to try it. Also concerned that newer model genies may be difficult to find a compatible external HD. Evidently DTV tech support has been telling people that new HR 54's do not support external drives. I know TS is not reliable but DTV loses money when people watch recorded shows in lieu of purchasing content from them so maybe newer model HR54's have been made difficult to deal with re external hdd. Really no reason a seagate drive should not work other than perhaps some specific drive formatting. Will try a few more things and then decide whether or not to punt or by another dock and/or HD.


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## JerryMeeker

Reposting what is working well for me for the last 9 months:

FWIW, here is the drive enclosure I purchased: Orico 7618SUS3-BK Tool-Free USB 3.0 & E-SATA Interface Metal 3.5" SATA HDD Enclosure (Black) - Newegg.com.

And the 4TB hard drive: WD Purple NV Surveillance Hard Drive | Western Digital (WD).


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## P Smith

NewDTVguy said:


> and trying a low level format


you are probably old as myself to remember a necessary to do LLF... well, forget it ! current hdd don't need to do that - they have internal FW routine to remap bad sectors invisibly for you, your OS;
removing partitions will force DVR to re-create them again


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## Rich

Delroy E Walleye said:


> Rich is right.
> 
> I can attest to the likelihood of the DVR reformatting after a connection to a laptop (Windows "did" something to the HDD that the DVR didn't "like" - simply by installing its own "driver" or something).


Something can go wrong when you put an HDD on a computer. I know I'd screw something up if I did that. Why take a chance?

Rich


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## Rich

NewDTVguy said:


> I did initially use the hdd right out of the box. It was only after it failed the first time that I connected it to my laptop via usb and found 4 separate partitions. The dvr evidently creates these during the format process. The partitions/drives are not recognized by windows 10 as readable. I am thinking about deleting the partitions again and trying a low level format.
> 
> Thanks for the comments.* I am leary that the WD blue drive may not work with my dock* - not sure I want to pony up another $100 to try it. Also concerned that newer model genies may be difficult to find a compatible external HD. Evidently DTV tech support has been telling people that new HR 54's do not support external drives. I know TS is not reliable but DTV loses money when people watch recorded shows in lieu of purchasing content from them so maybe newer model HR54's have been made difficult to deal with re external hdd. Really no reason a seagate drive should not work other than perhaps some specific drive formatting. Will try a few more things and then decide whether or not to punt or by another dock and/or HD.


Why? That's the drive I settled on years ago (when the 'Blue' drives were still 'Green' drives) and they've never been a problem on my HRs. Aside from dying of old age. You mention the drive failed initially, how did it fail? They either connect or they don't. What happened?

Rich


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## Rich

JerryMeeker said:


> Reposting what is working well for me for the last 9 months:
> 
> FWIW, here is the drive enclosure I purchased: Orico 7618SUS3-BK Tool-Free USB 3.0 & E-SATA Interface Metal 3.5" SATA HDD Enclosure (Black) - Newegg.com.
> 
> And the 4TB hard drive: WD Purple NV Surveillance Hard Drive | Western Digital (WD).


That's a pretty neat dock. Not expensive and seems simple. I will keep that in mind. Thanx.

Rich


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## Rich

P Smith said:


> you are probably old as myself to remember a necessary to do LLF... well, forget it ! current hdd don't need to do that - they have internal FW routine to remap bad sectors invisibly for you, your OS;
> *removing partitions will force DVR to re-create them again*


And that would cause a reformat, right?

Rich


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## JerryMeeker

Rich said:


> That's a pretty neat dock. Not expensive and seems simple. I will keep that in mind. Thanx.
> 
> Rich


I have been pleased with it. The drive/enclosure combination is very quiet, and is only slightly warm to the touch.


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## NewDTVguy

Rich said:


> Why? That's the drive I settled on years ago (when the 'Blue' drives were still 'Green' drives) and they've never been a problem on my HRs. Aside from dying of old age. You mention the drive failed initially, how did it fail? They either connect or they don't. What happened?
> 
> Rich


It connected and worked fine both times for approx 8-10 shows recorded. The DVR then froze and would take up to a minute to respond to basic commands like displaying the guide or menu. I could not use the power off button on the DVR and had to unplug it. After removing the connection to the exteral HD, everything work fine again. Very strange that it would work fine for roughly the same period each try. Wonder if it is something the way Seagate drives are set up.


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## Rich

NewDTVguy said:


> It connected and worked fine both times for approx 8-10 shows recorded. The DVR then froze and would take up to a minute to respond to basic commands like displaying the guide or menu. I could not use the power off button on the DVR and had to unplug it. After removing the connection to the exteral HD, everything work fine again. Very strange that it would work fine for roughly the same period each try. Wonder if it is something the way Seagate drives are set up.


I've used Seagate Barracudas on my HRs. They were noisy but I don't recall any other problems. So noisy I switched to WD Greens which became WD Blues a year or two ago. The Cudas had a speed of 7200, IIRC, and the WDs have a speed of 5400. Maybe that's why they're quieter.

A few years ago D* tried to mandate/suggest which drives would be best for eSATA devices and suggested Seagates in a particular enclosure. I happened to be talking to someone about HDDs at Seagate and mentioned the suggested HDDs. He said we don't recommend any of our hard drives for DVRs. D* took down the suggested devices shortly after that call.

But, folks at WD told me the same thing. They wanted nothing to do with HDDs for DVRs. Didn't stop me from using WD HDDs.

So, what are you gonna do?

Rich


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## P Smith

J J C said:


> I bought this 8tb Fantom Drives external hard drive:


at what site we should answer to you - here or avsforum ? did you read enough threads about using external drives with DTV DVRs ?


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## mocarob

NewDTVguy said:


> It connected and worked fine both times for approx 8-10 shows recorded. The DVR then froze and would take up to a minute to respond to basic commands like displaying the guide or menu. I could not use the power off button on the DVR and had to unplug it. After removing the connection to the exteral HD, everything work fine again. Very strange that it would work fine for roughly the same period each try. Wonder if it is something the way Seagate drives are set up.


Is it getting stuck on those inserted commercials? They cause my equipment to lock up once in a while..


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## Rich

P Smith said:


> at what site we should answer to you - here or avsforum ? did you read enough threads about using external drives with DTV DVRs ?


That post has disappeared. He was using a Fantom drive. I've heard nothing good about Fantom drives.

Rich


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## Andrepartthree

Hi guys just thought I'd post an update in case anyone ends up buying a Seagate SkyHawk 4TB Hard Drive - ( model ST4000VX007) and a Anker USB 3.0 & eSATA to SATA External Hard Drive Docking Station for 2.5 or 3.5in HDD, SSD [4TB Support] (model number) AK-68UPSHDDS-BU like I did for my HR24-200 DVR (note that my DVR model is old enough such that only 2 TB of that will be recognized... the plan is to upgrade the DVR to a Genie once a few years go by and - hopefully - Direct TV works out the problems it's having with the Genie far as bitter customer complaints about it not being reliable... a Direct TV tech I asked about it in person when he came to our house mentioned when the Genie works, it's great, but when it doesn't it really sucks  .... but going off on a tangent here, anyways  ) ...

The dock/hard drive combo mentioned above is still working 9 months later (purchased in October 2017) but a few caveats:

- EDIT AND UPDATE per Rich's advice I've eliminated the part where I thought it was strange you had to power up the dock then the DVR next (thought it was normally the reverse my bad  ) .. I've learned due to the unfortunate power/electricity fluctuations we have here in Florida (lots of thunderstorms but still can't convince my wife to let me attach stuff to a UPS since she feels it would be "unsightly" just sitting out there in the open  ) that if your power goes off for whatever reason, turn the dock on first if you have an anker like my own, put your ear next to the hard drive until you hear it spinning up, power on DVR, and if the pink flashing light on the dock is not flashing pink (it's still a steady blue) say within 30 seconds of the "Your receiver is starting up" blue screen message, power off DVR and power it back on again. This will save you a lot of time as opposed to waiting for your DVR to boot up completely only to realize the DVR isn't seeing your external hard drive. For first time buyers of the anker dock if you go that route, note that there is a power button on the dock you have to press to turn it on as well (that is, the dock doesn't automatically power itself on just because you plug it into a wall outlet or surge protector or whatever).

- I am REALLY hoping that my anker dock is not failing on me.. there were two separate incidents where I found that both the anker dock and DVR had shut themselves off completely (same as if someone had unplugged them).... what's strange is that when I told the DVR not to enter power saving mode (hit menu button, select settings and you should see power saving mode in there) , no more problem after that... again, given the weather here, it's possible that the power turned off and on again and the dock and DVR simply didn't "catch" themselves (which would mean not the dock or DVR's fault). Quite honestly I have no idea if the power saving mode thing was even the solution or not  (someone else on another forum was having difficulties with their DVR unexpectedly shutting off on them and someone else recommended that as a solution and it appeared to solve the problem.. not sure if the DVR putting itself to sleep "confuses" the anker dock? I'm hitting the power button on the DVR to put it into sleep mode in any event when I stop watching TV so...)...

- going off memory here so someone correct me if I'm wrong... I believe if you hit the select button on your remote when the "receiver" message comes on when your DVR powers up, it will let you access a menu where you can perform various tests on your DVR or hard drive, even if you're using an external hard drive (menu will say "entering diagnostics mode" but it can take a long time for the DVR to get there like it did with me, just be patient, go off and get a cup of coffee or otherwise do something to pass the time and eventually it will go into diagnostics mode) ... I performed all the hard drive tests (short one, long one) and hard drive passed both tests so - hopefully no problems with the hard drive ! I should mention this also left my recorded shows unaffected (the hard drive test)... the fan test is kind of weird, it just shows how fast the fans are rotating... the internal temperature test for the DVR is neat to see if it's overheating (online research showed one person's DVR sitting at 111 degrees as a "normal" temperature not sure if that's "correct" or not?) .. Not sure if these tests really "prove" anything or not though, wiser heads than mine on this forum will let us know  ...


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## Rich

Andrepartthree said:


> - *it is STRANGE compared to the normal docks in that you have to power the dock on first then power on the DVR, normally it's the reverse*...


No, that's not correct. You always have to power on the dock first. Then the DVR. That's normal and always has been.

Rich


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## Andrepartthree

Rich said:


> No, that's not correct. You always have to power on the dock first. Then the DVR. That's normal and always has been.
> 
> Rich


Crap! There I go spreading misinformation, obviously I've been away from the forum for too long  ... thanks Rich  .. updated my post to reflect this


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## mjfoxtrot

For what it's worth, I have had good luck with Rosewill external eSata enclosures. I know that some people have complained about them in the past, but I haven't had any problems. In particular, I have found them to be excellent at booting up alongside the DVR and have never had to worry about whether the external drive and the DVR were in sync during power-up.

The Rosewill external enclosures are built like tanks and have a nice solid feel. The main complaint I have read about them is that, because they have an internal fan, there is the possibility of dust build-up. I haven't noticed any, but it's worth checking the fan vent from time to time just to make sure you don't see any dust accumulation. If there is any, just blow it out with compressed air. Or even by blowing on it.

The Rosewill models I've used are the RX304-APU3-35B (has an LED readout for temperature) and the RX-358-U3C. The ThermalTake docks are also popular and I have a few of those as well. I'm partial to the Rosewills because of the fans and their ability to self-cool the hard drive; since a DVR drive is going to be running 24-7, I like the idea of cooling.


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## Rich

mjfoxtrot said:


> For what it's worth, I have had good luck with Rosewill external eSata enclosures. I know that some people have complained about them in the past, but I haven't had any problems. In particular, I have found them to be excellent at booting up alongside the DVR and have never had to worry about whether the external drive and the DVR were in sync during power-up.
> 
> The Rosewill external enclosures are built like tanks and have a nice solid feel. The main complaint I have read about them is that, because they have an internal fan, there is the possibility of dust build-up. I haven't noticed any, but it's worth checking the fan vent from time to time just to make sure you don't see any dust accumulation. If there is any, just blow it out with compressed air. Or even by blowing on it.
> 
> The Rosewill models I've used are the RX304-APU3-35B (has an LED readout for temperature) and the RX-358-U3C. The ThermalTake docks are also popular and I have a few of those as well. I'm partial to the Rosewills because of the fans and their ability to self-cool the hard drive; since a DVR drive is going to be running 24-7, I like the idea of cooling.


We have seen many complaints about Rosewill enclosures, nice to see a positive post, thanx.

Rich


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## mjfoxtrot

Rich said:


> We have seen many complaints about Rosewill enclosures, nice to see a positive post, thanx.
> 
> Rich


The two models I mentioned are relatively newer and are capable of supporting a 6 TB hard drive (although only 2 TB can be seen in a non-Genie DVR.) It could be that Rosewill cleaned up some problems with its earlier models. I've been very happy with them and use them on five DVRs.


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## Andrepartthree

mjfoxtrot said:


> For what it's worth, I have had good luck with Rosewill external eSata enclosures. I know that some people have complained about them in the past, but I haven't had any problems. In particular, I have found them to be excellent at booting up alongside the DVR and have never had to worry about whether the external drive and the DVR were in sync during power-up.
> 
> The Rosewill external enclosures are built like tanks and have a nice solid feel. The main complaint I have read about them is that, because they have an internal fan, there is the possibility of dust build-up. I haven't noticed any, but it's worth checking the fan vent from time to time just to make sure you don't see any dust accumulation. If there is any, just blow it out with compressed air. Or even by blowing on it.
> 
> The Rosewill models I've used are the RX304-APU3-35B (has an LED readout for temperature) and the RX-358-U3C. The ThermalTake docks are also popular and I have a few of those as well. I'm partial to the Rosewills because of the fans and their ability to self-cool the hard drive; since a DVR drive is going to be running 24-7, I like the idea of cooling.


This is super helpful, thanks  .. I was (foolishly ) about to ask what model DVR's you are using these on then realized you state it right there in the signature-type thing that appears underneath all of your posts so thanks for that too  ... if you don't mind me asking, how many months/years have the rosewill enclosures lasted for you if you had to guess?


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## mjfoxtrot

Andrepartthree said:


> This is super helpful, thanks  .. I was (foolishly ) about to ask what model DVR's you are using these on then realized you state it right there in the signature-type thing that appears underneath all of your posts so thanks for that too  ... if you don't mind me asking, how many months/years have the rosewill enclosures lasted for you if you had to guess?


No problem, you are welcome. I got my first one in February 2017. I remember because it was my birthday. I guess the other thing I should mention is what hard drive I use, it is the Western Digital 3.5-inch 2 TB "blue" hard drive. Sells for about $60 on Amazon.

I use that hard drive in all the enclosures and that combination has served me well so far. I suppose the real test will be how long they last, but I see no reason why I can't expect that they'll continue to perform well.


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## Andrepartthree

mjfoxtrot said:


> No problem, you are welcome. I got my first one in February 2017. I remember because it was my birthday. I guess the other thing I should mention is what hard drive I use, it is the Western Digital 3.5-inch 2 TB "blue" hard drive. Sells for about $60 on Amazon.
> 
> I use that hard drive in all the enclosures and that combination has served me well so far. I suppose the real test will be how long they last, but I see no reason why I can't expect that they'll continue to perform well.


Cool  ... the first one you got in February 2017 (so that means it's lasted a year and 4 months now which is good news  ) ... was that the RX304-APU3-35B (has an LED readout for temperature) or the RX-358-U3C? I myself have some concerns about a hard drive overheating (googled the heck out of it as far as docks vs enclosed hard drives  but no luck finding any info)... on the one had you have the hard drive out there in the open with an anker dock or thermaltake dock so I would guess any heat from the hard drive would just radiate outwards into the open air ?  ... (Rich has been recommending the thermaltakes so I'm guessing overheating with this kind of dock setup might not be as much of an issue as I'm worrying about?) ... on the other hand I like the idea of an aluminum case with a fan , aluminum acts as a heatsink for the hard drive and the fans help blow the hot air out...


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## mjfoxtrot

Andrepartthree said:


> Cool  ... the first one you got in February 2017 (so that means it's lasted a year and 4 months now which is good news  ) ... was that the RX304-APU3-35B (has an LED readout for temperature) or the RX-358-U3C? I myself have some concerns about a hard drive overheating (googled the heck out of it as far as docks vs enclosed hard drives  but no luck finding any info)... on the one had you have the hard drive out there in the open with an anker dock or thermaltake dock so I would guess any heat from the hard drive would just radiate outwards into the open air ?  ... (Rich has been recommending the thermaltakes so I'm guessing overheating with this kind of dock setup might not be as much of an issue as I'm worrying about?) ... on the other hand I like the idea of an aluminum case with a fan , aluminum acts as a heatsink for the hard drive and the fans help blow the hot air out...


The first one I got was the RX-358-U3C. I actually think that one is better for a few reasons. Number one, it is built with better materials. Not to say that the RX304-APU3-35B feels cheap, because it doesn't, but the RX-358-U3C just feels particularly solid. The RX304-APU3-35B's LED readout is nice, but it has one annoying issue which is a bit of a distraction. It has a bright red hard-drive activity indicator light on the front and it flashes constantly in this application, because obviously a DVR is frequently writing to the disk. So what I have done is to just put one of my son's old action figures in front of it so you never see the light flashing 

Bottom line is that the RX-358-U3C does not have that issue, because the hard drive indicator light on that model does NOT flash when connected via the eSata port. Only USB. So much better.

I think you are smart to worry about overheating. I've used HDD enclosures for over 20 years, and I learned early on that you will pay the price if you leave a hard drive in an enclosure that does not have an adequate fan. Many enclosures have no fan at all. That's fine if you are just going to use the drive for an hour or two and turn it off, which is typically how people use an enclosure. But for DVR purposes, the disk is being accessed and/or written to 24-7. Cooling is definitely a must. The first RX-358-U3C that I deployed in February 2017 is still going strong, and I occasionally put my hand on it to check whether it is running hot. It always feels room temperature, or slightly warmer. In other words, the fan is doing a good job.

And yes, I've read Rich's reviews on the ThermalTakes, and he seems like a pretty smart guy, so that is why I have two of the ThermalTake docks as well. I'm only using one (bought it on eBay for $20, so I couldn't resist), and I only set it up about a month ago on one of my HR24-200s. But so far it is running well. The bedroom cabinet where I have the dock has a little less cabinet space, so the dock is a good fit there, as the docks don't take up as much surface area.

Should you go with a dock or an enclosure? Hard to say. But I feel like the latest Rosewill enclosures and the eSata ThermalTake docks are both pretty reliable options, based on what I've seen from first-hand experience so far. If anything tips me toward enclosures, it's that the Rosewills seem to have no trouble staying in sync with my DVRs . . . I've read lots of comments from people saying that sometimes, when they reboot their DVR, the external hard drive is not seen. I have rebooted well over a dozen times with the Rosewills and never once had the DVR not see the external drive.


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