# Has Tivo failed ?



## John Corn (Mar 21, 2002)

I just got a monthly newsletter sent to me, Investment weekly, thats the source of the no's. There claim was that even Echostar has outsold Tivo.

Its been some 18 months of active deployment, and the most Tivo can report is a few hundred thousand units of sales. This is one of the worst consumer product launches in recent history. 

Even Echostar has outsold Tivo in the PVR market with only a fraction of the marketing budget. 

Hopefully Tivo is acquired in the next 6 months, otherwise they could eventually be doomed.. 

But the fact remains, Echostar is still out-selling Tivo. And they are adding MOXI to their rollout. Goes to show that mainstream consumers are not willing to pay another service fee, but will pay if its all-inclusive in their overall TV package. Call it the conveinence symdrome - no one wants another bill.


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## Guest (Mar 27, 2002)

The Echostar PVR is nothing but a receiver with a hard drive, hardly comparable to a TiVo.

They only out sell TiVo because they force all new customers to buy them.


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## gcutler (Mar 23, 2002)

If DirectTV required you to purchase a DTiVo with any new account then the #s would be very different.

But I do think that TiVo's business model was not very realistic. But it isn't as you would say because people don't want another bill. There are plenty of people with a regular phone bill and a cell phone bill, thus one more bill. Most people have not seen the benefit of TiVo. Anyone who I have given a live TiVo demo in my living room has gotten a PVR of some sort. But many who I have spoken to have total misunderstanding of what the TiVo is, also some have said "I don't have room for another device in my Entertainment center" But I know virtually no people who regretted the move to a TiVO type device and that says alot, to bad TiVo can't successfully get the word out to more people.

I don't know what the answer is, or if there is an answer other than combo units by E* and D* and AT&T, etc. But if TiVo was somehow able to get more people to see a live (15 minute) demo, they would be selling alot more.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Yep, folks STILL dont know what it is and can do. Its a marketing failure The monthly fee depresses sales.

What they SHOULD DO is sell the unit with 6 months FREE service, after 6 months pay or be left with a useful but stupid dummied down box.

People think its just ANOTHER VCR.

Your free six month trial is up. You now loose most of your functions. EVERYONE would pay.


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## Guest (Mar 28, 2002)

100,000 new subs in the 4th qtr is hardly a failure.


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## gcutler (Mar 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Bob Haller _
> *Yep, folks STILL dont know what it is and can do. Its a marketing failure The monthly fee depresses sales.
> 
> What they SHOULD DO is sell the unit with 6 months FREE service, after 6 months pay or be left with a useful but stupid dummied down box.
> ...


Bob,

That is a great idea, even if only for 3 months it would still convert enough people. But then the $399 price (now for the TiVo Series 2) is also getting in the way. $250 for the Box (Max price) and a 3-6 month trial subscription might help it.

But like many of my co-workers, getting it in the door is a problem. All the things discussed here would not help even as they recieved mis-information somewhere down the line REFUSE to listen to anyone about the benefits (It is like they think TiVo is some type of cult) and if they bring it in the house it will brainwash them.


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

It IS the monthly fee! It's just that simple. People do not want to pay more for a "smart VCR". I know it's better than that. I love the PVR I have. But I want to be VERY clear about this... I have a PVR ONLY because there is no monthly fee. Dish says they are going to start charging the $10 fee for the Dishplayer June 2003. The nanosecond they want to charge me for this feature, I'll drop it like a hot potato and dust off the VCR. Just that simple. This service is not worth a nickel a month especially since all new digital cable systems and DBS services have an EPG to begin with.

See ya
Tony


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## Guest (Mar 28, 2002)

Maybe if the forced you to buy a lifetime sub like Dish and Replay do you would feel better.


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## gcutler (Mar 23, 2002)

Originally posted by TNGTony



> It IS the monthly fee! It's just that simple.


Not to the People I speak to. The monthly fee may be a part of the fear, but they just don't see the PVR as something of value. Many say I have a VCR, why do I need that. And describing it doesn't help.

THe reason I went for a PVR is only because I saw a friend's DP in action and thought it was a great idea. If I had not seen the DP in action (and only heard about it) I would be sitting there just like some people I know telling you I have a VCR, why do I need a PVR.

It is different for all people, why insist it is one and only one issue.


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

I understand the marketing problem. People do think it's just a VCR. But that is a matter of educating the public. Proper marketing (which they only half-heartedly do) can take care of that. 

But thinking that the average American public will pay extra for a service that can be done by a VCR for free is flawed. After many, many years of retail sales experience, I can tell you that the average customer's first question (though disguised within more inoquous questions) is "what's the cheapest?" Quality, dependability, name recognition, etc. come later. It's not a secret that we as customers make value/prce judgements constantly. We all want the best. But most of usl want to pay the least possible for something that is "good enough".

As a retail sales person the statement that I heard more often than not was "I don't need all that." This statement really meant, "Don't you have anything cheaper?"

A TiVo, though VERY different from a VCR in its functionality and features essentially performs the same basic function as a VCR. It records programs and plays them back when you want to see them.

A VCR cost one quarter the price of a TiVo unit and does not have a monthly fee. Yes the tapes cost extra, but the customers don't look that far. (they really don't). So, you try to sell the TiVo and I can hear the customer saying to the salesman, "I don't need all that."

See ya
Tony


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## John Corn (Mar 21, 2002)

I have a buddy at work right now that wanted me to find him a PVR of some sort, he is a Direct TV sub.

These are his concerns.
1. price
2. monthly fee, lifetime fee.

Monthly TiVo fee scares him to death, but he seems to be willing to pay the lifetime fee ??????

Well these were my concerns at the time when I was shopping as well. Although after having the 501 and loving it, I sometimes wish I would have got the DirectTiVo, knowing what I know now the monthly fee wouldn't bother me. The 501 has changed the way I watch TV, I would love to have the TiVo or replay TV bells and whistles.

I spent $550.00 to get my 501 and 4900 which included installation, so I guess I'm stuck with it for awhile.
Don't get me wrong, I Love Dish Network.


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