# Not getting 5.1 Audio via HDMI



## hwilker (Nov 3, 2009)

I seem to be unable to get Dolby Digital output via my DirecTV DVR through the HDMI port. Here is the chronology of the problem

I had a HR21 that was connected directly to my TV (Panasonic TH42PX60U) via HDMI. The picture was fine and my TV received and output 2 channel stereo audio. 

A month ago I decided to upgrade to a 5.1 audio system. I purchased a Yamaha RXV465, along with the requisite speakers. I hooked the Yamaha receiver up to my HR 21 via HDMI and then from my receiver to the TV. Picture was still fine but the Yamaha receiver reported only receiving two channel PCM audio.

I could get 5 channel audio out of the HR 21 via either the Coaxial or Optical Digital Audio output from the HR 21. This wasn't a solution for me though since the Yamaha receiver doesn't do port assignment. Thus if the video is being input as HDMI the Yamaha automatically uses the HDMI audio as well. It had no ability to pair coaxial or optical audio with HDMI video. This problem persisted regardless of which HDMI port I used and changing HDMI cables also had no effect. I should note meanwhile that other devices connected to the receiver via HDMI had no problem outputting 5.1 audio.

I complained repeatedly to DirecTV about the lack of 5.1 channel audio being output from the HDMI port, and eventually they agreed to replace my HR 21 with a new HR 23. 

I installed the HR 23 but I still had the same problem - only two channel PCM audio from the HDMI port. With my return privileges on the Yamaha receiver expiring I decided that I needed to return the receiver for one that would provide me with the cability to assign Coaxial or Optical Audio to HDMI video. I exchanged it for an Onkyo TXR607. I first connected the new receiver to the HR 23 via HDMI and checked the audio. The Onkyo also reported that it too was only receiving PCM audio via the HDMI port. I then hooked up the Coaxial audio cable and paired it with the HDMI video for a working solution.

However, I am still disturbed/confused regarding the lack of 5.1 channel audio via the HDMI port on DirecTV. Have others run into this problem, or are others getting full 5.1 Audio from the HDMI port. Having tried all the obvious troubleshooting options: changing cables, changing ports, changing DVR's and changing receivers, I am convinced that DirecTV is not outputting 5.1 audio from the HDMI port on their DVR's but I likewise can't imagine that this could be the case with so little comment on this or other forums. 

Can anybody offer guidance?


Thanks,

Harry


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## Colby (Dec 8, 2008)

Have you gone into the following..

Menu->Setup->Audio->Dolby Digital->On

I don't recall what the default configuration is, but it should be toggled to On.


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## hwilker (Nov 3, 2009)

Sorry. I should have made that clear. Yes, I did turn on the Dolby Digital output option. As I indicated I am getting 5.1 audio (Dolby Digital) out from the Coaxial audio port and the Optical Digital Audio port. It's just not coming through the HDMI port. 

Thanks for responding.


Harry


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## Colby (Dec 8, 2008)

When you pull up Info, does a known DD show display as English DD?


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## hwilker (Nov 3, 2009)

If what you mean is the info button on the DirecTV remote, my experience is that the description of shows includes the HD indicator but not a specific mention of Dolby Digital. However, I know they are Dolby Digital programs since the receiver so indicates when I use either Coaxial or Optical cables. And, it indicates PCM when the HDMI port is used for audio. Also these are often programs from HBO or Showtime where the program begins by indicating it is being transmitted in Dolby Digital. It seems to me that it could not be a question of whether or not it was received by my DVR as Dolby Digital, since it outputs Dolby Digital from Coax or Optical, just not via the HDMI port. Are you (or others) getting Dolby Digital out of HDMI port on DirecTV HR21, 22, or 23?


Harry


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

I have and have always gotten DD audio over HDMI from every channel broadcasting in DD. My 1st guess would be you dont have your A/V receiver setup correctly.


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## hwilker (Nov 3, 2009)

"My 1st guess would be you dont have your A/V receiver setup correctly."

It was my first guess as well. However there is no setting involved. I plug in the HDMI cable from the HR23 to the Onkyo TXSR607 and select that port as input. The receiver reports that it is receiving PCM audio. If I then plug in a Coaxial Audio cable and assign it to the same port (instead of using the audio coming from the HDMI port) the Onkyo reports that it is receiving DD 5.1.

I also have a Popcorn Hour A110 NMT connected to the Onkyo via HDMI (in a different HDMI port of course). I just plug in the HDMI cable and the Onkyo reports that it is receiving DD 5.1 assuming of course that I'm playing DD content.

If I swap ports (plug the HR23 into the HDMI port that the A110 had been connected to and plugging the A110 into the port that the HR23 had been in) I get the same results - the A110 delivers 5.1 and the HR23 PCM.

If I'm setting up my Onkyo incorrectly it sure eludes me as to what it could be. Perhaps someone who has the Onkyo TXSR607 and a DirecTV HD DVR could suggest how they've set things up so that they're receiving DD5.1 from the DVR using only the HDMI port.

Thanks for the assistance.


Harry


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## SFNSXguy (Apr 17, 2006)

Not every channel (even HBO or Showtime) is sending a 5.1 signal all the time. Tune to a big noisemaker movie (like Hellboy or Spiderman) to be sure your watching a program that delivers 5.1.


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## Eben (Sep 10, 2007)

Just brainstorming here:
P. 81 of manual regarding HDMI audio TV out, check this setting.
P. 77, assign listening modes to input sources.
P. 84, digital input signal formats, set to auto?
Verify you followed the setup/input assignment process described on pp. 40-42.
Good luck.


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## hwilker (Nov 3, 2009)

----
P. 81 of manual regarding HDMI audio TV out, check this setting.
P. 77, assign listening modes to input sources.
P. 84, digital input signal formats, set to auto?
Verify you followed the setup/input assignment process described on pp. 40-42.
----
Thanks for the suggestions. I checked all of them. These are the results.
First, I went to the HDMI Input Setup as described on pp. 40-42. My DVR is in HDMI1. I went to setup 1-1 and made sure that CBL/SAT button was assigned to HDMI1. Next I went to setup 1.3 as described on p42 and changed the audio assignment back from COAX 2 (where it was outputing DD5.1) to ---- signifying that the audio was set to be taken from the HDMI audio port.

Then, making sure I had DD5.1 playing (Dexter on Showtime) I exited setup and hit the Display button on the remote. It displays the following: "PCM fsi 48 Khz". This says to me that PCM is what the receiver is receiving from the HDMI port. 

If I then go back in to Setup 1-3 and reassign the CBL/SAT audio input to COAX2 exit and then hit the display button again, I get: "Dolby D 5.1". Go figure!

I then reset it back to HDMI audio to continue with your suggestions.

I went to p81. I went to Setup 7-1 and selected option 3: HDMI. It indicated that "Audio TV Out" was set to off (I have no audio going out from the Receiver to the TV speakers.) I turned it on anyway. Sound continued to come from the left and right front speakers and the display indicated sound was being output to the TV but nothing changed. I went back and turned off audio to the TV.

I next went to Listening modes setup on p77. I chose input 3 for CBL/SAT. This is how everything has been set:
Analog/PCM - PLII Movie
Dolby D/Dolby D+ - Dolby Digital
DTS/ DTS HD - DTS
D.F. 2ch - All Ch Stereo
D.F. Mono - Full Mono

Incidentally as further indication of my contention the PCM is coming into the receiver from the HDMI port, when audio is coming from DD content via the HDMI mode the display indicated that the listening mode is PLII Movie. If I go back into setup and change the input assignment back to COAX 2, without changing content, the display indicates that it is in Dolby Digital listening mode.

I next went to P84 and checked it is set to "auto". It is. Incidentally if, when the audio input is from HDMI i change it to PCM I continue to get sound. If, I do the same when the input is from COAX and change from auto to PCM I get no sound, once again indicating that the HDMI input is PCM while the COAX input is DD 5.1.

That pretty much covers your suggestions. I really appreciate your help. This is really more of a intellectual challenge to me that a critical problem, as I've got the workaround implemented and get Dolby Digital fine through the COAX cable. I just find it impossible to let go of what appears to me the illogical conclusion that the DVR is sending out PCM audio from the HDMI port. 

Any further ideas will be appreciated and tested. Thanks,


Harry


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## brucegrr (Sep 14, 2006)

My Onyko HT-R550 requires a digital connection for the sound. The hdmi ports are pass through so they will pass the audio to a TV BUT for the sound to be played through the receiver speakers a digital connection is required.


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## hwilker (Nov 3, 2009)

tralfaz,

thanks for the suggestion but I returned the Yamaha receiver last week and replaced it with the Onkyo TXSR607, but the problem persists. Plus I have no problem with either receiver as far as outputing video or audio, it's just that, with either receiver, they report that they are receiving PCM audio from the DVR (actually from two different DVR's, since I tried it with both the HR21 I had, and HR23 they sent me).


Harry


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## DeanS (Aug 23, 2006)

I know this may sound stupid, but have your tried replacing your HDMI cable? I personally don't understand why you are not experiencing DD 5.1 audio from your receiver using an HDMI connection from your DVR. These HDMI connectors were designed to pass all kinds of higher end audio codecs in addition to 1080p picture resolution. 

Incidentally, I installed a new Yamaha RXV565 receiver last July in my home audio/video setup. The HDMI cable from my HR-20 is plugged into the RXV565's HDMI-2 slot on the back of the receiver. My blue ray player's HDMI connector is plugged into the HDMI-1 slot on the receiver. Any DD 5.1 audio content I receive from the HR-20 (whether from HBO or other programming) is output through the HDMI connection to the receiver. I know this to be the case because there are speaker icons on the front of the receiver that light up for each speaker in my setup that is receiving a signal, and all 5 are lit including the .1 subwoofer icon. You must be missing something in your setup. And, BTW, Yamaha just made a firmware update available to my receiver that allows more assignable inputs/outputs.

As a last resort, you may want to take your issue over to the AVS Forum and see if you can get some help there......


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## hwilker (Nov 3, 2009)

"I know this may sound stupid, but have your tried replacing your HDMI cable? I personally don't understand why you are not experiencing DD 5.1 audio from your receiver using an HDMI connection from your DVR. These HDMI connectors were designed to pass all kinds of higher end audio codecs in addition to 1080p picture resolution. "

Not stupid at all. I actually tried 3 different HDMI cables. They all reported the same thing.

"Incidentally, I installed a new Yamaha RXV565 receiver last July in my home audio/video setup. The HDMI cable from my HR-20 is plugged into the RXV565's HDMI-2 slot on the back of the receiver. My blue ray player's HDMI connector is plugged into the HDMI-1 slot on the receiver. Any DD 5.1 audio content I receive from the HR-20 (whether from HBO or other programming) is output through the HDMI connection to the receiver. I know this to be the case because there are speaker icons on the front of the receiver that light up for each speaker in my setup that is receiving a signal, and all 5 are lit including the .1 subwoofer icon. You must be missing something in your setup."

I would say the same thing, except I'm not. Before returning the Yamaha receiver I tried plugging in the HDMI output from my DVR to each of the Yamaha's HDMI input ports. In each case it reported that it was receiving PCM audio. The same was true after replacing it with the Onkyo receiver. On the other hand plugging my Popcorn Hour A110 into either receiver in any HDMI port, indicates that the receiver is receiving DD 5.1 audio. Go figure!

I know it sounds like I must be missing something. I would completely agree if I hadn't exhausted every conceivable troubleshooting option I could think of. After all, hooking up an input device to a receiver via the HDMI port is not all that difficult. Just plug it in. Two different receivers (Yamaha and Onkyo, with output from two different DVR's (HR21 and HR23) all report PCM audio.

I'm as skeptical of what I'm reporting as anybody else, as it doesn't make any sense, but in all cases it's the receiver that's reporting the signals it's receiving. 


"And, BTW, Yamaha just made a firmware update available to my receiver that allows more assignable inputs/outputs."

too late for me, I'm afraid. I've already returned it in exchange for the Onkyo.

Thanks,

Harry


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## cygnusloop (Jan 26, 2007)

You know, I've been following this thread, and just scratching my head trying to figure it out. It just doesn't make any sense. So, looking at it from a very basic troubleshooting perspective, the only thing that is common to all the configurations that you have described is your TV.

As I started thinking about it from that perspective, I can come up with one possibility (at least from a conceptual point of view).

HDMI handshaking is a mysterious thing to me, and I have seen some strange behavior from HDMI connected devices. On my Onkyo 605, there is an option buried in the setup that says something to the effect of "pass through HDMI audio". Depending on how that is set, I have seen different devices behave in different ways. I would imagine that the 607 has something similar.

Although I can't imagine why, it seems that the HDTV is somehow convincing the HR not to send DD (which is conceivable if the receiver is in true "pass through" mode. One test would be to power everything off, and unplug the HDMI cord from the TV, restart everything else to initiate new handshakes, and see if you get DD 5.1 to the receiver in that configuration. Additionally, my HDTV has some set up options that specify whether or not an external audio system is being used, although I've never really been able to figure out exactly what all they do (the manual is somewhere between vague and silent on the point).

FWIW, I have always run HDMI straight to the HDTV from both HRs, and optical to the receiver from one HR, and coax from the other, as the 605 only has 2 HDMI inputs, and I need those for other things.


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## hwilker (Nov 3, 2009)

"You know, I've been following this thread, and just scratching my head trying to figure it out. It just doesn't make any sense."

To me as well 

So, looking at it from a very basic troubleshooting perspective, the only thing that is common to all the configurations that you have described is your TV.

"As I started thinking about it from that perspective, I can come up with one possibility (at least from a conceptual point of view).

HDMI handshaking is a mysterious thing to me, and I have seen some strange behavior from HDMI connected devices. On my Onkyo 605, there is an option buried in the setup that says something to the effect of "pass through HDMI audio". Depending on how that is set, I have seen different devices behave in different ways. I would imagine that the 607 has something similar."

It does have such an option and changing it doesn't seem to change anything. When "audio pass through" is off, and audio is set to be delivered via HDMI the receiver reports receiving PCM audio from the DVR. When I turn audio pass through on it reports the same thing. Assign the audio to Coaxial Cable, and the receiver reports receiving DD 5.1 whether the audio pass-through is on or off.

"Although I can't imagine why, it seems that the HDTV is somehow convincing the HR not to send DD (which is conceivable if the receiver is in true "pass through" mode. One test would be to power everything off, and unplug the HDMI cord from the TV, restart everything else to initiate new handshakes, and see if you get DD 5.1 to the receiver in that configuration. Additionally, my HDTV has some set up options that specify whether or not an external audio system is being used, although I've never really been able to figure out exactly what all they do (the manual is somewhere between vague and silent on the point)."

I don't see how the HDTV could enter into the equation given that there is NO connection between my DVR and the TV. Everything is routed through the AVR. But in the interest of troubleshooting everything, I will try a power down/disconnect/power on/reconnect in the morning - after the World Series - to see if, somehow, that might correct things.

"FWIW, I have always run HDMI straight to the HDTV from both HRs, and optical to the receiver from one HR, and coax from the other, as the 605 only has 2 HDMI inputs, and I need those for other things."

Interestingly I tried that as well earlier in this process. When either DVR is hooked up with HDMI directly to the TV for video and the Coaxial cable is connected to the receiver for audio the receiver reports receiving DD 5.1 audio. I could do that but I'm already accomplishing that by hooking the DVR up to the receiver via HDMI AND overriding HDMI audio by assigning the Coaxial port to the HDMI video.

As I said, I will try disconnecting and repowering everything in the AM just to see if this has any effect, and will respond here.

Thanks,

Harry


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## cygnusloop (Jan 26, 2007)

hwilker said:


> I don't see how the HDTV could enter into the equation given that there is NO connection between my DVR and the TV. Everything is routed through the AVR.
> Harry


Ahh, but there IS a connection, and that's my point. Just because the receiver is in between, does not mean that there is no communication between the DVR and the HDTV. Particularly if you are in pass through mode. It's just how HDMI works, and the communication is 2-way. There are cases where an intermediate device can "spoof" the HDMI source device, but not always.


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## joed32 (Jul 27, 2006)

My Onkyo has a menu item that gives you a choice of HDMI yes or no. If you select yes it sends the HDMI signal straight through to the TV, if you select no it uses the HDMI signal for the Surround sound. I might have the yes or no backwards because it's been a long time. Some people like to send the sound to the TV and use optical or coax for 5.1. That way they can just watch and listen to a program without turning their AV unit on or turn it on if they so choose.


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## hwilker (Nov 3, 2009)

cygnusloop

"Ahh, but there IS a connection, and that's my point. Just because the receiver is in between, does not mean that there is no communication between the DVR and the HDTV. Particularly if you are in pass through mode. It's just how HDMI works, and the communication is 2-way. There are cases where an intermediate device can "spoof" the HDMI source device, but not always."

As I indicated last night I would try your suggestions this morning, and I did. Here is what I tried and the results of the test.

1. I made sure that the system was set up to output the audio received via the HDMI port.

2. I disconnected the HDMI cable to both the TV and the DVR at the receiver end.

3. I powered down all equipment (receiver, tv, and DVR) by physically removing the plugs from the power strips. I waited a few minutes and then plugged them back in. Once all was powered up, I connected the DVR to the receiver. This way the DVR was connected to the receiver but the TV had no physical connection to either the receiver or the DVR via HDMI. 

4. I have a conventional TV in the kitchen which is also part of my setup. It is connected to the receiver via the composite ports on the DVR which is converted to coaxial via a converter. (And, yes, I long ago ruled out that connection as somehow part of the problem. When disconnected it makes no difference to the audio received by the receiver.) At any rate, I used that TV to select a saved program with known DD 5.1 audio and started playing it. The receiver was still reporting receiving 2 channel PCM from the DVR via the HDMI port. Nothing had changed.

5. I reconnected the HDTV via HDMI and put everything back in its place.

So, unless I missed something we can now rule out HDMI handshaking from the TV as part of the problem. The problem persists even if no HDMI output is connected.


tralfaz: I'm afraid I don't have another HDMI display but the above rules out, I think, any HDMI display problems.

joed32:
I've tried audio pass-through on or off. It doesn't seem to matter. 

Thanks for all the suggestions.


Harry


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## brucegrr (Sep 14, 2006)

Here is a discussion on the AVS forum about HDMI problems with Onkyo receivers. Not sure how much applies BUT there seems to be a problem with the HDMI cards in some 600 series Onkyo receivers.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1141824


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## hwilker (Nov 3, 2009)

Thanks. Pretty scary thread. Sounds like there are a lot of HDMI board issues with at least some Onkyo receivers. Makes me wish I'd bought something other than Onkyo, at least based on what is being said there. However, I don't see much that helps unravel my current dilemma. I'm not having any observable handshake issues and neither video nor audio go through my TV to get to my receiver.

As I've said elsewhere in this thread, this issue is pretty much just an intellectual exercise as I have a workaround - using a coaxial digital audio cable - that works fine. It just leaves me in the clutches of an (apparently) unresolvable dilemma. On the one hand every empirical test and troubleshooting procedure I (or others) have been able to think of yeilds the conclusion that the DirecTV DVRs (at least the two different units I have access to) are only putting out PCM audio through the HDMI port. On the other hand, this makes absolutely no sense, compounded by the fact that, it seems, everyone else routinely gets DD 5.1 audio output from their DirecTV DVR's and it is beyond reason to believe that I have the ONLY two HD DVR's in existence that don't output DD 5.1 from the HDMI port. In spite of all the help I've received here (and for which I thank everyone) I guess it's a dilemma I'll have to live with unless someone comes up with something new to try.

Harry


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## cygnusloop (Jan 26, 2007)

hwilker said:


> ...Makes me wish I'd bought something other than Onkyo, at least based on what is being said there. ...
> 
> Harry


Don't worry about your Onkyo, Harry. I think the testing you have done shows nothing is wrong with your particular unit. My 605 has been fantastic (and I have had it pretty much since its release). The Onkyos are nice receivers with great sound, and IMO, are about the best bang for your buck as far as audio quality is concerned.

Your workaround is only at the cost of a single extra cable, so your right, it's really academic at this point. A puzzling mystery nonetheless.


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## brucegrr (Sep 14, 2006)

I run my setup like cygnusloop. HDMI from the DVR to the TV, optical audio from the DVR to the receiver. 

The only negative is that there are only 4 digital audio ports on my Onkyo receiver, and all of them are now used. (dvr,xbox 360, dvd player, squeezebox)


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

cygnusloop said:


> Don't worry about your Onkyo, Harry. I think the testing you have done shows nothing is wrong with your particular unit. My 605 has been fantastic (and I have had it pretty much since its release). The Onkyos are nice receivers with great sound, and IMO, are about the best bang for your buck as far as audio quality is concerned.
> 
> Your workaround is only at the cost of a single extra cable, so your right, it's really academic at this point. A puzzling mystery nonetheless.


I'll second that about the 605. I love mine and have perfect DD 5.1 through it from either an HR20-700 of HR21-200 as source. I also use a Monoprice 5x1 HDMI switch, which has caused no problems at all.

I see no HDMI (audio or video) incompatibility problems between my two HD-DVRs and the Onkyo 605.


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## hwilker (Nov 3, 2009)

I could do that, but I'd rather not have to switch both my tv and my receiver when I change input source. I accomplish what I need by attaching my video from the DVR to the AVR then to the TV via HDMI, and attaching the DVR to the AVR via Coaxial Audio Cable and then assigning the Coax input to the HDMI video. That way I only need to switch source once. My Onkyo has 5 HDMI ports plus one in front, so I've got HDMI ports to burn. It sounds like both of us are not using the HDMI port for audio.

Harry


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## brucegrr (Sep 14, 2006)

hwilker said:


> I could do that, but I'd rather not have to switch both my tv and my receiver when I change input source. Harry


understand that. I use a harmony remote. one button, everything changes. Prior to the harmony way too many buttons to push


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## hwilker (Nov 3, 2009)

"Don't worry about your Onkyo, Harry. I think the testing you have done shows nothing is wrong with your particular unit. My 605 has been fantastic (and I have had it pretty much since its release). The Onkyos are nice receivers with great sound, and IMO, are about the best bang for your buck as far as audio quality is concerned."

I certainly have no complaints about my Onkyo either. I was just responding to the sound of the referenced AVS thread. I'm sure I could find similar threads on other receiver brands since someone always has a hardware problem somewhere.

Since this troubleshooting process started with a Yamaha receiver (which also worked fine at the hardware level but had an inability to assign Coax input to HDMI video) and ended up with an Onkyo still having the same problem, I've never really believed that there was a receiver hardware problem involved. 

As to audio quality the Onkyo certainly sounds great!

Harry


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

It could be a bad HDMI Port or Card. This situation was Notorious when the Directv HR10-250 HD Tivo came out. Almost 35% of the units had Bad HDMI Ports or Ports that later when bad.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

richierich said:


> It could be a bad HDMI Port or Card. This situation was Notorious when the Directv HR10-250 HD Tivo came out. Almost 35% of the units had Bad HDMI Ports or Ports that later when bad.


Or bad HDMI cable...it happens....


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## brucegrr (Sep 14, 2006)

hwilker said:


> As to audio quality the Onkyo certainly sounds great!Harry


My Onkyo is my first Onkyo (previous Yamaha receiver) I love it. The only "problem" is that is runs significantly hotter than any other receiver I have ever owned. Helps keep the living room warm in the winter.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

He said he tried 3 different HDMI Cables so I doubt that is the case.


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## cygnusloop (Jan 26, 2007)

brucegrr said:


> understand that. I use a harmony remote. one button, everything changes. Prior to the harmony way too many buttons to push


And I will second the Harmony. Costs a little bit, but makes all that other money spent worth it. My 4 year old can run the whole system. Even my wife can, on a good day.:lol:


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

brucegrr said:


> My Onkyo is my first Onkyo (previous Yamaha receiver) I love it. The only "problem" is that is runs significantly hotter than any other receiver I have ever owned. Helps keep the living room warm in the winter.


I have a very quiet fan on the hottest part of the top vents, as well as a second fan on top of my HR20-700. I'm anal retentive when it comes to heat and electronics devices. I found the 605 got way too hot for my comfort. Since putting on the top exhaust fan, it runs cool as a cucumber.


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## The Big Bad (Aug 23, 2006)

Aside from reducing the number of cables, etc..., is there any audio quality advantage to running audio through the HDMI instead of the optical (or coax) connection? I know that HDMI allows for the advanced codecs such as Dolby TrueHD and dts MA, but as far as I'm aware no channel broadcasts these codecs (and I doubt any will any time soon given bandwidth constraints). Thoughts?


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

None that I know of. I have it both ways HDMI and Optical Digital and can't tell a difference.


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## cygnusloop (Jan 26, 2007)

The Big Bad said:


> Aside from reducing the number of cables, etc..., is there any audio quality advantage to running audio through the HDMI instead of the optical (or coax) connection? I know that HDMI allows for the advanced codecs such as Dolby TrueHD and dts MA, but as far as I'm aware no channel broadcasts these codecs (and I doubt any will any time soon given bandwidth constraints). Thoughts?


If there are any differences between DD over HDMI, optical or coax, they are likely due to subtle differences in the input circuitry. There will be those that will tell you one is better than the other, and some will even claim to be able to hear the difference between an optical cable with glass fiber vs. one with plastic.:icon_stup But, for us mere mortals, there should be absolutely no difference at all.


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## schneid (Aug 14, 2007)

I just bought a Sony STR-DA2400ES for the express purpose of gaining more ports. My current receiver does not support HDMI and only has three digital inputs (3opt/1coax). I am adding a Roku and need another port. The new Sony has four HDMI and five digital (3opt/2coax).

The OP's issue is that if you use the HDMI ports on the receiver they exclusively assign video and audio to HDMI. You cannot alter the assignment. HDMI1 output will not allow Audio from another digital (opt or coax). It must be from the HDMI cable.

I am also waiting for a new storage cabinet so I haven't hooked it up. Just playing today I hooked it up to another 5.1 set of speakers in my den and my H20-100. When using HDMI I only received 2-ch stereo while through Digital Optical I got 5.1 the same as the OP reports. I tried two different HDMI cables.

I report back once I get it hooked up with my Sammy plasma in the chain. HDCP DRM is a bear and maybe something is read back from the display to enable HDMI audio.

I hope I haven't paid for four additional ports that are worthless.

Update: Out of the blue HDMI Audio started working fine for me. The only thing that I may have done was a Factory Reset of the Receiver with the DTV box on. Maybe that allowed the Receiver to re-read the DTV box correctly.


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## GregLee (Dec 28, 2005)

hwilker said:


> So, unless I missed something we can now rule out HDMI handshaking from the TV as part of the problem. The problem persists even if no HDMI output is connected.


I don't think that rules it out. As I understand it, the HDMI output port asks the HDMI input port which it is connected to: "Do you know about DD?", and sends DD only if it gets a "yes" answer. If the device with the HDMI input port is not powered up when the HDMI output port is initialized, it can't give the right answer. I don't know that the D* receivers work this way, but I used to have a cable box that did. Then having the AVR standing between satellite receiver and TV potentially complicates the HDMI initialization, too.


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## mdueweke (Jan 24, 2010)

Greetings Thread:

I too experienced the same problem - that is, not getting 5.1 from the HDMI connection from the Popcorn Hour to the AV receiver.

So, this is what I did to fix the problem. Hopefully it does not have any unintended consequences.

All I did was run a pair of Left/Right RCA cables from the Popcorn Hour to the audio connections of the Video 1 on the AV receiver and left the HDMI cable to the AV receiver connected. Now I have great video and 5.1 audio from the Popcorn Box movies or MP3's residing on the PH drive and also from networked sources.


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

mdueweke said:


> Greetings Thread:
> 
> I too experienced the same problem - that is, not getting 5.1 from the HDMI connection from the Popcorn Hour to the AV receiver.
> 
> ...


You arent getting 5.1 audio that way, you cant get 5.1 audio over a pair of analog cables like that. If you look into it you'll find your a/v receiver is just taking the stereo input and creating at best Dolby PLII out of it. 5.1 audio can only come from 6 analogs outs or a digital connection(HDMI, optical, or digital coax)


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## DoctorCAD (Aug 10, 2009)

Wow, this is really interesting, as I am having exactly the opposite issue with my Onkyo 507.

If I got this right, when the OP uses HDMI from the HR 22 to the A/V receiver, he does not see DD 5.1 on the receivers screen. If he does HDMI to the TV and digital optical (or digital coax) to the A/V receiver he does see DD 5.1 on the receivers screen.

If I hook HDMI up the first method, HR22 and Blu Ray to A/V and HDMI to TV, I get DD 5.1 on my receivers screen. I get no sound to the TV speakers (and that is a problem to my wife but not me) but full surround sound through my Polk RM10's. Trying to correct the TV speaker issue, I changed to the second method, HDMI to TV and optical to A/V receiver. I get sound to the TV speakers now, but my A/V receiver only shows PCM. I can adjust it to Neo6, but that isn't a real surround mode. I have no DD 5.1 with this hook up method.

Interesting that we can have exact opposite results!!!!!!


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

DoctorCAD said:


> Wow, this is really interesting, as I am having exactly the opposite issue with my Onkyo 507.
> 
> If I got this right, when the OP uses HDMI from the HR 22 to the A/V receiver, he does not see DD 5.1 on the receivers screen. If he does HDMI to the TV and digital optical (or digital coax) to the A/V receiver he does see DD 5.1 on the receivers screen.
> 
> ...


Very few tv's will pass DD5.1 out of the optical port when input via HDMI, that optical output is strictly to get DD5.1 sound to your a/v receiver when using the tv's internal tuner in most cases.


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## DoctorCAD (Aug 10, 2009)

CCarncross said:


> Very few tv's will pass DD5.1 out of the optical port when input via HDMI, that optical output is strictly to get DD5.1 sound to your a/v receiver when using the tv's internal tuner in most cases.


No, I have the optical port on the HR22 connected to the A/V receiver.


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## jaguar325 (Jan 2, 2006)

I got a Yamaha 2065 Network Receiver over the holidays and have been struggling with DD over HDMI ever since. I have concluded that the problem is with the HDMI EDID "handshake" between the HDMI source and TV -- not the A/V receiver.

For anybody having this problem who has not done so already, take every menu option available (on the TV) to TURN OFF the TV's speakers. Your best shot at fixing the problem is to convince the source device that the TV is in display-only mode. One of my conclusions is that with TV speakers on, the HDMI cable is carrying back a signal to the source device saying, in effect; "I am a TV with 2 speakers. Even though I can accept digital audio input (which does not necessarily mean Dolby Digital 5.1), send me 2-channel sound information only". The tech support guys at Yamaha and Gefen seem to agree that the A/V receiver does little to get in the way of the information flow between the HDCP devices (DVR and TV), so it is likely NOT the culprit.

My experience is with an HR22 and HR20, both going through relatively expensive, high-performance HDMI splitters. This is because I send HDMI to the A/V receiver in my greatroom (connected to a Mits LCD) -and- to another Mits LCD in a bedroom (this one has the built-in sound bar so the HDMI connects directly to it). I continue to see the same symptoms - reset everything (including splitters) in the greatroom, turn on the A/V receiver and GR TV - everything works great, including confirmation from the Yammy that I'm getting DD5.1. [Note: whomever made the comment about ensuring you are on a true DD5.1 channel is right, many D* channels show the DD symbol on the upper right but are not really doing anything more than stereo - my surefire way to know I have DD5.1 is to tune to any HD movie in the 500's] Anyway, after getting everything going in the GR, I turn on the TV in the bedroom and, guess what? The A/V receiver starts showing PCM. Switch to the other DVR and follow the same sequence -- same outcome.

I researched the TV's sound bar and found that, although it puts out great sound (when accompanied by my M&K sub), it is SURROUND SOUND -- aka: PCM. I have concluded this TV is the offender. I tried turning off the TV sound but for some reason it is still getting word back to the source that it wants 2-channel digital input and my splitters are complying... "dumbing down" the audio signal they put out to both rooms. Since I know I can sustain a DD5.1 connection with the GR TV (speakers turned off), I am getting ready to try a new splitter from Gefen - very pricey but it's the only one I have found where you can specify the TV that it gets the EDID information from - whatever is plugged into port 1 is where it looks for EDID information. I don't care that the one with the soundbar get force-fed DD because it seems like it knows how to translate it for that TV.

Hopefully, this is gonna work - fingers crossed.

Big K

p.s. Video works great with the splitters I currently own, which have been tested with up to 1080p D* signal running concurrently on both sets with no problems. I got a good deal on those ones so kind of sorry to be replacing them but if it solves this problem, I can stop thinking about it.


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## GregLee (Dec 28, 2005)

jaguar325 said:


> One of my conclusions is that with TV speakers on, the HDMI cable is carrying back a signal to the source device saying, in effect; "I am a TV with 2 speakers. Even though I can accept digital audio input (which does not necessarily mean Dolby Digital 5.1), send me 2-channel sound information only".


I know this can happen. Back when I had cable, the Explorer STB system had this bug, which prevented me from using HDMI and getting 5.1 sound. But it was just a temporary problem -- they soon fixed their system by introducing a user settable flag meaning "Send DD 5.1 sound even if the HDMI interface says it is connected to a 2-channel sound device." I think the DD setting in the Hxxx receivers has this meaning. At any rate, I never had this problem after I switched to DirecTV. I still think your AVR is at fault.


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## jaguar325 (Jan 2, 2006)

Yes, as hoped, the Gefen HDMI splitters solved my 5.1 problem. The Yammy receiver is staying on DD solid all the time now. I cannot say for sure whether this has to do with their ability to look for a specific TV for EDID information or if they do something different with the splitting than my original ones. All I know is that it works now and I don't think the receiver was the issue. One thing the guy at Gefen told me was to make sure I used their option to specify "external EDID" (meaning: get this information from connected equipment - not their on-board, pre-programmed EDID info which is PCM only). It worked exactly as he said -- on-board EDID - no DD, external EDID - stable DD. I wondered if the original splitter was forcing PCM but the reason I don't think so is that it would stay on DD until I turned on the TV with the "surround sound" on it's built-in sound bar.

Thanks for everyone's input!

Big K


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## Hagow (Jun 6, 2014)

I don't know if the original question was ever answered, but I ended up encountering the same issue.

Turns out that my TV's passthrough changes the hdmi's 5.1 signal into Stereo PCM before spitting it back out the SPDIF output to my receiver.

That seems to explain why running optical direct from my satellite box to the receiver gets me 5.1 successfully, while running the signal using hdmi to my tv and then from the tv to the receiver using optical gets me stereo pcm only.

This article suggests that you may or may not have this problem depending on the model of TV you have that is handling the audio passthrough. http://www.cnet.com/news/20-tvs-tested-which-sets-can-pass-surround-sound-to-a-sound-bar/

Hope this helps.


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## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

Hagow said:


> I don't know if the original question was ever answered, but I ended up encountering the same issue.
> 
> Turns out that my TV's passthrough changes the hdmi's 5.1 signal into Stereo PCM before spitting it back out the SPDIF output to my receiver.
> 
> ...


Yes, most TVs will not output DD5.1 through their optical output when the signal comes in thru HDMI. In the last couple of years we've seen more TVs passthru DD5.1, but most still don't. None of my three HDTVs will pass thru DD5.1.

You can usually find this fact buried somewhere in the TV user manual if you look carefully enough.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Hagow said:


> .
> 
> Turns out that my TV's passthrough changes the hdmi's 5.1 signal into Stereo PCM before spitting it back out the SPDIF output to my receiver.


the SPDIF output is made so you can get DD5.1 via OTA


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## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

peds48 said:


> the SPDIF output is made so you can get DD5.1 via OTA


The TV's Dolby Decoder is part of the OTA chipset....


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

texasbrit said:


> The TV's Dolby Decoder is part of the OTA chipset....


Exactly


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## RalphJ (Jul 18, 2016)

I have read this entire thread. Without going into my entire rig, I just switched from using U Verse to Direct TV. When I was using U Verse, the Dolby 5.1 was working fine. It worked awesome cool on the NBA finals. It does not seem to work at all on Direct TV. With U verse, I just set my receiver to auto detect and it switched the Dolby 5.1 on when it was there.

I am using the same receiver, TV, and cables with Direct TV. 

After reading the thread, I really think the problem is with Direct TV. They need to deal with it.


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## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

Have you set the DirecTV box to output DD5.1?


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## WestDC (Feb 9, 2008)

RalphJ said:


> I have read this entire thread. Without going into my entire rig, I just switched from using U Verse to Direct TV. When I was using U Verse, the Dolby 5.1 was working fine. It worked awesome cool on the NBA finals. It does not seem to work at all on Direct TV. With U verse, I just set my receiver to auto detect and it switched the Dolby 5.1 on when it was there.
> 
> I am using the same receiver, TV, and cables with Direct TV.
> 
> After reading the thread, I really think the problem is with Direct TV. They need to deal with it.


First-Welcome to the site :righton:

First Not all channels are Dolby 5.i (however) -What channel are you having problem with? Do you have DVD/BLU ray player attached -Again try one of these and see if that detects 5.1 since you have changed a lot of setting it might have changed something - I'm getting 5.1 on HBO-Starz so you should be able to as well TBS - May or may not be 5.1 all times but when they are the show infomation on the show broadcast at the begining of the broadcast.

Have you gone into the receiver Menu and turned Dolby on? press menu -setting- Audio - 
What Model receiver?
What model TV & AVR are you using -I ask Because perhaps others may be able as well


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