# Rf19 station ID on WTEV



## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

This may not be a 921 bug but as a coincidence of both my local WTEV doing some upgrades to their PSIP generator at the same time we took the L211, I discover that this same station now will not lock. The signal is quite strong and steady. When I do a manual scan the call sign shows up as "Rf19" where WTEV used to be. The station Engineer claims they have everything correct with their PSIP now, even though they did admit some pointer errors when they first went on the air with the PSIP upgrades. Those errors caused a loss of all sound on all receivers. They are now fixed, except for the 921 not seeing their signal. 99% of my hunch is this is a station problem but I just wanted to post it here for all to see in the remote chance someone else has seen this "Rf19" appear in the call sign list of scanned channels. I suspect this may be some sort of error code that gives the Eldon boys a clue to the source of the problem.

I have already reported this bug through my inner contact at ETC but do not yet have any info response from them.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Don, I've got a station in Denver that maps as Rf38, and it locks in fine. It's being broadcast on channel 38, but maps down to 12-1 on most receivers. Not the 921, though.


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

WOIO in Cleveland does both: maps to 19-01 and Rf10. This happened after 2.11. I did a DTV scan and thought WOIO added a new subchannel. Insted it's just a sort of mirror - with the same video problems (pulsing reds and occasional vertical green bars). Mark thinks it's because I'm getting too much signal (it's maxed out at 125 and I'm only 1.4 miles from the transmitter).


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## Skates (Apr 15, 2004)

Don, I didn't just see that once, I saw it multiple times after L211.

You may have seen my posts about not being able to lock KCOP 13/66 in L.A. After L211, it finally locked, but exactly like you described. I just went in and edited the name.

But on top of that, I got a slew of those designations, all at impossible channel numbers (nothing in L.A. goes past x.4).

I had RFxxx-5, Rfxxx-6, Rfxxx-7, etc. I just deleted them all. Each time I rescan though, I get them back.

Hope this doesn't confuse the issue - if you want, I can do a rescan and give you the exact channel designations - I didn't write them down.


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## Bogney (Jul 11, 2003)

In New York City, WPIX-DT now shows up with an extra Rf12 channel and WNYW-DT shows an extra Rf44 channel. This is also new with 211.


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

Thanks, everyone. I'm still thinking this is a PSIP issue at the station but it is handled differently in the 921. The coincidence is just too convenient that my one local with this Rf19 designator is the only one and the one that is the only station WITH KNOWN PSIP table errors. The engineer claims these are now fixed, but he has been known to be wrong, and wrong again, until the viewers acknowledge his tweaks are working. 

From what I understand errors in the PSIP setup are apparently a very common problem among stations all over.

UPDATE- I set my program guide to "All Channels" I found the Rf19 there and it did lock and display. Then I went in and manually typed in a call sign. The channel is the true digital ATSC channel. All this is telling me two things:
1. L211 fixed the PSIP only requirement generated last summer. 
2. If the station has no PSIP or has serious table errors in the PSIP setup pointers, the 921 will still see the ATSC channel in the All channels guide. The Rfxx may just be artifacts of the PSIP tables but one thing is certain, perfect PSIP does not now appear to be required under L211.


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

Finally, our local station engineer made the corrections to his TVCT and PMT tables so that I can once again receive his station, properly. 

There seems to be much confusion as to how to properly set up the various settings in the PSIP tables at the station. If any of these are set wrong, your local could lose audio, video, call sign, and/or remap virtual channel number. many stations are scrambling to get this right as the deadline is February 2005. After that any station not properly sending PSIP will be in violation of FCC regulations. 

With all the complaints about Eldon, lately, it seems that PSIP is something they did right. However, not all stations are correctly set up yet and I would say that if your local channels are not properly locking, have issues with no sound or picture or you are receiving an "Rf** in the channel list rather than the call sign and virtual channel, then your station has it's PID's incorrectly set. 

You will need to delete the channel currently listed and rescan the RF channel to let the 921 sense the new and correct PID's once the station corrects them.

As an asside- While all stations will be required to send Program guide data as part of the PSIP FCC regulated requirement, not all receivers will respond to this, if they are programmed to use guide data from the DBS' subscription service. Additionally, the FCC requirement does not extend for the 9 day guide that the 921 uses. In a discussion with a local station engineer, I learn that if a station goes to the trouble to automate the guide data from his programming department to the PSIP computer, he could just as easily do it for a 2 week period that is sent to the sub service. In fact one station plans to do just that. They plan to pull the data for PSIP from the subscription service after it is sent from their own station to the service. Seems that implementing this logistics is easier to automate than to pull the data direct from their own programming department.


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## bbomar (Oct 18, 2004)

Michael P said:


> WOIO in Cleveland does both: maps to 19-01 and Rf10. This happened after 2.11. I did a DTV scan and thought WOIO added a new subchannel. Insted it's just a sort of mirror - with the same video problems (pulsing reds and occasional vertical green bars). Mark thinks it's because I'm getting too much signal (it's maxed out at 125 and I'm only 1.4 miles from the transmitter).


WHNT in Huntsville, AL also showed up two places when I did a scan DTV.
I got both 19-01 and Rf59. I didn't have my antenna turned toward
Huntsville (I was scanning for Nashville, TN channels) so I was receiving
off the back side of the antenna from 50 miles away so excessive signal
strength was not the cause. This station broadcasts digitally on UHF
channel 59.


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

DonLandis said:


> ... They plan to pull the data for PSIP from the subscription service after it is sent from their own station to the service. Seems that implementing this logistics is easier to automate than to pull the data direct from their own programming department.


Isn't that a sad state of affairs. 

Even worse, things like this are so common in the world - not just with TV.


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## Cyclone (Jul 1, 2002)

I'm getting these Rf28 channels as well for the Maryland Public TV channels. The actually channels do map properly, its just these "extra" Rfxx channels are also added.


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