# Newly installed 921. No OTA ???? Help!



## zer0cool (Nov 24, 2004)

Just had my new Samsung DLP television delivered today, and picked up my 921 and got it activated. The Dish HD channels look amazing!
My biggest problem now is that I can't seem to get my local HD channels to come in at all. I started with a $50.00 Jensen indoor HDTV antenna, and worked my way up to a $150.00 Terk that is mounted on my roof next to my dish. No matter what I try, I can't get any digital ota channels at all. I'm in Arlington Texas, if anyone near me has any antenna advice. I hooked up my father's system a couple of days ago (No Dish Network, just antenna with a Sony LCD with the HD tuner built in), and he got all the local HD channels with no problem with the same antenna he's had for years. He lives about 25 miles from me though. Also, his Sony has a "." button on the remote he uses to tune in 4.1, 8.1 etc> for the local HD channels. I don't have that option on either my TV remote or the 921 remote, so i'm not sure how to manually select a HD channel (if I ever get them to come in).
The second issue I've had is with sharing this receiver with my second (non HD-ready) TV. From my DLP TV, I have to go into the menu and switch the signal from 720P to 480i, which kills the signal on the DLP and makes the bedroom TV watchable. To switch back I have to reverse the process from the bedroom. Just hitting the HD/SD button usually results in picture loss on both sets, and I have to unplug the power to get a picture back. (to share the receiver, I used a splitter on the RG6 cable from the 921 output to both TV's. Of course I'm using a DVI cable on the Samsung. This setup worked great with my 721, which I replaced with the 921).
Lastly, (and I hope this may resolve itself), I've noticed my local channels (thru Dish) have disappeared. Well, actually channels 4,5,8, etc. are gone. (I can still find them in the 8400 range, but it's annoying since I got used to them coinciding with the OTA numbers.
Sorry for rambling, hopefully you can follow what I was saying and offer some advice. Thankls


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## Frank Z (Nov 15, 2002)

Have you tried scanning for local Digital channels via the OSD?


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

:welcome_s to DBSTalk.

Hopefully it's so obvious you just didn't mention it, but did you scan for digital channels (menu, 6, 8, scan dtv)? Once you have them in memory, you get to 4.1 by entering 00401 which will display as 004-01. For antenna aiming help go to antennaweb.org. Have you checked what any of your neighbors are using?

I'm surprised you don't get the picture back when you switch the Samsung back to DVI. I have the same setup using a Sony CRT. Would be nice if the HD/SD toggle held both settings, resolution and shape, for both TVs so I don't have to go into the menus every time.

The 921 doesn't do local channel remapping though that may be coming in a future software release.


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## dishbacker (Jun 15, 2004)

zer0cool said:


> No matter what I try, I can't get any digital ota channels at all. I'm in Arlington Texas, if anyone near me has any antenna advice.


Just as a note from a fellow DFW resident, you should be able to pull in all of the DFW HD channels. The only note for ya is currently, the trick play features (ffwd, pausing, etc) don't work very well on KXAS, and recording that channel works, but when you watch it if you ffwrd it will take you back to the beginning of the program... its documented and hope it gets fixed in the near future.

As others said, go to Menu-6-8 I believe (Item is called Local Channels). Then, select scan DTV. You can also do a manual add and enter the DTV number (9 for 8, 14 for 13, etc.). If you wanna do manual, go to www.antennaweb.org for all of the channel numbers.

I'm in Flower Mound, and there are other members on here is Bedford, Corinth, Plano, Mesquite, etc... You should be golden in Arlington, unless you have a line of sight issue between you and Cedar Hill where the TV towers are.



zer0cool said:


> Just hitting the HD/SD button usually results in picture loss on both sets, and I have to unplug the power to get a picture back. (to share the receiver, I used a splitter on the RG6 cable from the 921 output to both TV's. Of course I'm using a DVI cable on the Samsung. This setup worked great with my 721, which I replaced with the 921).


The 721 has DVI? Anyway, the 921 does not support doing HD output (DVI or Component) and SD output (s-video or composite or RF) at the same time. Its a chip limitation. If you hit the HD/SD button and switch to SD, then the HD outputs are disabled. Hit it again, and visa versa. The 811 supports it, but the 921 can't.



zer0cool said:


> Lastly, (and I hope this may resolve itself), I've noticed my local channels (thru Dish) have disappeared. Well, actually channels 4,5,8, etc. are gone. (I can still find them in the 8400 range, but it's annoying since I got used to them coinciding with the OTA numbers.


As mentioned above, this is currently not available in the software for the 921 and is rumored to be in the next update (or the next one after that). It should be coming soon. This is commonly refered to as Local In Locals (or LIL). Meaning local channels in local channel number maping.

Welcome and enjoy your 921!


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## oljim (Aug 6, 2002)

The $150 Terk is your first mistake, get a real ant and point it at the TV towers.
Go to antennaweb.org and put in your address, it will tell you direction and dist to your local stations.


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## zer0cool (Nov 24, 2004)

Now, to try and answer some of the questions raised. 
I've tried to scan for channels with no luck. Non-digital locals look terrible using the antenna straight to the TV, so I guess the antenna is the problem.
Dishbacker, thanks for the input on the local numbers. The tech at Dish Network had no idea about this and wanted to send someone out to look at the box. Guess I'll just have to wait awhile. Any idea on when the next update is due? 
Sorry for the confusing post, what I meant was the splitter on the RG-6 cable worked great using the 721 on two TV's, it didn't have a DVi port.
With the 921 set to 720P and HD, I get picture on my Samsunf through the DVI port, if I switch it to SD, then I get it through the S-video port. Occasionally I have to manually switch it to 480 through the menus though. And I have to go into the menus to get it to work on the non-HD tv in the bedroom.
Looks like oljim is probably right and I'll just have to get me a big ol' old school antenna. Hopefully that'll get me in business. too bad it's cold and windy today. At least the rain stopped. Any suggestions on antenna? Should an attic install work or will I need to go up on the roof with it?


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## mwgiii (Jul 19, 2002)

I have a DB4 in my attic and get great reception.

Antennas Direct gives you 90 day return in case the antenna doesn't work.

http://www.antennasdirect.com/MediumRangeAntennas.htm


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

The next release is scheduled for "soon after Thanksgiving". I could be more specific than that, but I'm not going to be because I think the target date that I have may slip by a little bit.

There is a current problem with the 921 DVI output losing sync with some televisions. There's a fix for this in the next version that may solve that particular problem. Local channel downmapping is indeed "rumored" to be included in the next release. And get rid of that Terk - just about everything from them is a piece of junk that is highly overpriced. If Dallas stations are exclusively in the UHF channel range, try a radio shack 15-623 antenna (uhf only yagi) for $23. That's what I use (well actually 2 of them) in Denver.


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## sgt940 (Jan 9, 2004)

I live North of Denton a good 40 miles farther from the stations than Arlington, I recieve ALL Digital channels perfectly even 68 with its four sub channels. The problem must be with your set up. I use a high end channel master antenna(you can buy at Fry's). What kind of signal strength do you get? Remember to check signal strength you have must use the broad cast channel not the station channels. Here is a a short list of the more than 15 digital channels in our area. WARNING CHANNEL 8 IS BROADCAST CHANNEL 9 SO YOU MUST HAVE A VHF ANTENNA AS WELL AS UHF OR A GOOD COMBO. All stations are in Cedar Hill directly south of you and very close so any antenna should work.

Station 4 is broadcast channel 35
Station 5 is broadcast channel 41
Station 8 is broadcast channel 9
Station 11 is broadcast channel 19
Station 21 is broadcast channel 18
Station 27 is broadcast channel 36
Station 33 is broadcast channel 32

These should let you check some signal strengths.


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## lujan (Feb 10, 2004)

Mark Lamutt said:


> The next release is scheduled for "soon after Thanksgiving". I could be more specific than that, but I'm not going to be because I think the target date that I have may slip by a little bit.
> 
> There is a current problem with the 921 DVI output losing sync with some televisions. There's a fix for this in the next version that may solve that particular problem. Local channel downmapping is indeed "rumored" to be included in the next release. And get rid of that Terk - just about everything from them is a piece of junk that is highly overpriced. If Dallas stations are exclusively in the UHF channel range, try a radio shack 15-623 antenna (uhf only yagi) for $23. That's what I use (well actually 2 of them) in Denver.


I have found a way around the "losing sync" issue with my Mits DLP 62525. If you turn on the TV first and leave it on for only a few seconds and then turn on the 921, it will not sync and you will get a garbled picture. But, if you always turn on the 921 first and then the TV, I have no problem with the picture. This has only happened since I switched from component to DVI outputs on the 921. Mark, do you know if the antenna you mention is a directional antenna? I still can't receive my local NBC (KOB) station at all because of what I believe is multipath so I keep getting spikes on the signal meter but never a lock. My local station engineer suggested trying a directional antenna to prevent multipath as much as possible.


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## sgt940 (Jan 9, 2004)

The only time I have had my 921 replaced was in February for this same problem. All stations would lock but one and it jumped all around. To prove to dish it was not multipath or an Antenna I had to borrow my son's 811 hook them up side by side and get them on the phone to prove it to them. They replaced my unit and I have not had any issues with any stations locking since.


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## zer0cool (Nov 24, 2004)

Latest update:
I got a new antenna from Fry's and mounted it on the roof. When I plug it straight in to the television, I get a crystal clear signal on all DFW stations. (Analog). Of course in bypassing the 921, I lose the ability to tune in Hi-Def. When I plug the antenna into the 921's antenna-in port, and run a RG-6 cable from the 921's TV-out to the antenna in on my television, I can only get one very snowy station, and nothing for the rest. When I switch back to the DVI input and let the 921 scan for locals, it finds none. Could the problem be with the off-air tuner in the 921 itself?
Only thing I know to try next is a signal amplifier. I've already got a huge pile of junk to return.


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## zer0cool (Nov 24, 2004)

Latest (and greatest) update. By manually entering the numbers posted by sgt940, I was able to manually lock and save those channels. don't know why searching wasn't working. Anyone got any other DFW broadcast numbers. i know there are a few others, but those took care of the main stations. Yee-haw!


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## lujan (Feb 10, 2004)

sgt940 said:


> The only time I have had my 921 replaced was in February for this same problem. All stations would lock but one and it jumped all around. To prove to dish it was not multipath or an Antenna I had to borrow my son's 811 hook them up side by side and get them on the phone to prove it to them. They replaced my unit and I have not had any issues with any stations locking since.


I've already had the 921 replaced and the new unit didn't get the lock on the local NBC station either. That's why I think it's the station or the antenna. I also get all of the other DT stations in perfectly.


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## sgt940 (Jan 9, 2004)

Here is the rest that I have:
13 is broadcast 14
39 is broadcast 40
58 is broadcast 45
52 is broadcast 51
68 is broadcast 42
23 is broadcast 24
More and more HD content on some of the UHFs and on PBS.
Hope this helps. by the way mine scans in with out a problem so that is wierd.


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## zer0cool (Nov 24, 2004)

Thanks for the help sgt940. got 'em all in now.


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## ClaudeR (Dec 7, 2003)

Mark Lamutt said:


> The next release is scheduled for "soon after Thanksgiving". If Dallas stations are exclusively in the UHF channel range, try a radio shack 15-623 antenna (uhf only yagi) for $23. That's what I use (well actually 2 of them) in Denver.


Do you use a combiner for the two antennae? At my house in Buffalo, there are two "groupings" of stations about 160 degrees apart. Two of these yagi would pretty much cover my house with all locals. Do the 2 combine well?

I will be getting my 921 installed 8 days after Thanksgiving, hopefully latest update will be available soon.


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## ctdish (Apr 9, 2004)

Mark,
Could explain the workings of "Local channel downmapping "? Does this mean that it is necessary for Dish to properly understand some aspect of the digital stations signal in order for the 921 to receive the channel?
Thanks John


Mark Lamutt said:


> The next release is scheduled for "soon after Thanksgiving". I could be more specific than that, but I'm not going to be because I think the target date that I have may slip by a little bit.
> 
> There is a current problem with the 921 DVI output losing sync with some televisions. There's a fix for this in the next version that may solve that particular problem. Local channel downmapping is indeed "rumored" to be included in the next release. And get rid of that Terk - just about everything from them is a piece of junk that is highly overpriced. If Dallas stations are exclusively in the UHF channel range, try a radio shack 15-623 antenna (uhf only yagi) for $23. That's what I use (well actually 2 of them) in Denver.


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## JD Robinson (Nov 13, 2004)

ClaudeR said:


> Do you use a combiner for the two antennae? At my house in Buffalo, there are two "groupings" of stations about 160 degrees apart. Two of these yagi would pretty much cover my house with all locals. Do the 2 combine well?
> 
> I will be getting my 921 installed 8 days after Thanksgiving, hopefully latest update will be available soon.


I thought I was going to have to hang two, since my situation is exactly the same, but further complicated in Little Rock by our CBS affiliate broadcasting VHF. After some _turning-it-up-so-loud-I-can-hear-it-while-"fiddling-on-the-roof"_ experimentation, though, I found that I can lock *all* of my locals by pointing my single cheap directional toward downtown, where I get passable bounce from both sites.

Not exactly the conventional solution, but it's worthwhile to experiment.


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## deweybrunner (Feb 8, 2004)

Here in Tampa, I have the same 160 degree situation. CBS is in opposite direction from all the other towers. I installed , in the attic, a Tampa Bay Special antenna from Radio Shack. It consists of one large directional antenna facing toward the large group of towers, and a smaller one, attached to the same shaft, pointing to CBS tower in the opposite direction. The two were connected with a flat antenna wire which has holes in it every inch a part. I have no idea why, however, it works. I have one feed down to an amplifier which then goes into the 921. I have great hd reception and recording from all stations. I am about 45 miles from the large group and about 25 from the CBS tower. Good luck. Lot of fun, however, can be frustrating, but is well worth it when all comes in. Love my 921, which I have had since Jan.


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## Curmudgeon (Jul 15, 2004)

Terks suck. All show and no go. You'd be way better off with a Radio Shack outdoor antenna - UHF only if that's what your local stations are. THEN do the scan mentioned by other.
When in doubt, RTFM.


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## markcollins (Jan 27, 2004)

zerocool, live in NRH area of Tarrant Co. I get all local digitals clear with just a cheap Radio Shack antenna in my attic.No problem after software update kept 921 from losing the prescanned channels.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

ClaudeR said:


> Do you use a combiner for the two antennae? At my house in Buffalo, there are two "groupings" of stations about 160 degrees apart. Two of these yagi would pretty much cover my house with all locals. Do the 2 combine well?
> 
> I will be getting my 921 installed 8 days after Thanksgiving, hopefully latest update will be available soon.


No, I don't combine because I'm feeding 3 HD receivers from the two antennas. I split one of the antenna signals between 2 of them, and run the other one straight through to the 3rd receiver.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

ctdish said:


> Mark,
> Could explain the workings of "Local channel downmapping "? Does this mean that it is necessary for Dish to properly understand some aspect of the digital stations signal in order for the 921 to receive the channel?
> Thanks John


Local channel downmapping has nothing to do with OTA digital channels. It is remapping the dish satellite local channels from the 7000 or 8000 channel range down to what you analog equivalent channel numbers are.

For example, in Denver, the dish locals are in the 8200-8213 channel range. local channel downmapping will remap these channels so that:

8200 = 7
8201 = 4
8202 = 9
8203 = 31
8204 = 2
etc...


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## duihlein (Dec 25, 2003)

Mark Lamutt said:


> The next release is scheduled for "soon after Thanksgiving". I could be more specific than that, but I'm not going to be because I think the target date that I have may slip by a little bit.
> 
> There is a current problem with the 921 DVI output losing sync with some televisions. There's a fix for this in the next version that may solve that particular problem. Local channel downmapping is indeed "rumored" to be included in the next release. And get rid of that Terk - just about everything from them is a piece of junk that is highly overpriced. If Dallas stations are exclusively in the UHF channel range, try a radio shack 15-623 antenna (uhf only yagi) for $23. That's what I use (well actually 2 of them) in Denver.


Mark,
I have been unable to get DVI to work on my AE700. I was about to call Dish Tech support to have a new unit sent out, but it sounds like I should wait until the new rev comes out. When I plug the DVI/HDMI cable in it also kills the component output.

Thanks

Dave


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## ctdish (Apr 9, 2004)

Mark,
Thanks for the explaination. Thats good news. I guess they will have a way to add a third channel 7 in your example 8200 = 7, if you also get analog 7 and a remapped digital 7.1 from over the air. John


Mark Lamutt said:


> Local channel downmapping has nothing to do with OTA digital channels. It is remapping the dish satellite local channels from the 7000 or 8000 channel range down to what you analog equivalent channel numbers are.
> 
> For example, in Denver, the dish locals are in the 8200-8213 channel range. local channel downmapping will remap these channels so that:
> 
> ...


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## n0qcu (Mar 23, 2002)

ctdish said:


> Mark,
> Thanks for the explaination. Thats good news. I guess they will have a way to add a third channel 7 in your example 8200 = 7, if you also get analog 7 and a remapped digital 7.1 from over the air. John


the digital channels will be no problem but you will only be able to do either OTA analog in your guide OR remap the dish locals down to the local number.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Correct on the OTA analog vs local channel remap. Not an issue or a problem with local OTA digital and local channel remap (or at least shouldn't be once you see the software...there is still one glitch in the version that I have with it.)


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## PAUL_JK (Nov 26, 2004)

lujan said:


> I have found a way around the "losing sync" issue with my Mits DLP 62525. If you turn on the TV first and leave it on for only a few seconds and then turn on the 921, it will not sync and you will get a garbled picture. But, if you always turn on the 921 first and then the TV, I have no problem with the picture. This has only happened since I switched from component to DVI outputs on the 921. Mark, do you know if the antenna you mention is a directional antenna? I still can't receive my local NBC (KOB) station at all because of what I believe is multipath so I keep getting spikes on the signal meter but never a lock. My local station engineer suggested trying a directional antenna to prevent multipath as much as possible.


lujan -

I'm using my 921 with a Mits 52725, with both DVI and Component connections(for comparison). Have you noticed that the HDMI input on your set has much less contrast? I'm also having some trouble getting the HDMI connector on the TV to seat. It's very touchy. Sometimes I get reverse video and have to wiggle the connector. Have you see this on your 62525?

Thanks, Paul.


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## zer0cool (Nov 24, 2004)

With the roof mounted antenna I picked up from Fry's, I'm getting great reception on all locals now. the HD/SD button now seems to be working fine when switching from the Living room DLP to the bedroom's standard TV, too abd I can't just walk back and forth without ever missing a second of tv though. (Hmmmm.... may have to consider a smaller HD set for the bedroom, the set I've got in there is only about 18 months old though).
Biggest problem I've got now is how I've gotten used to going to sleep with the bedroom TV on at night. With my 721, it would turn itself off after a set number of hours of inactivity. I can't seem to find that option on the 921, and after it runs all night performance is sloooooooooowww. Scrolling through channel headings is painful until the 921 is rebooted. Any chance I'm missing the "auto-off" feature, or that it might be added soon?


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

Sorry, like many important 721 features, it's missing from the 921.


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## 4HiMarks (Jan 21, 2004)

zer0cool:

As far as the "going to sleep by the BR TV" problem, how important is it to be able to do it to satellite channels? If it's just for "white noise" type of stuff, split the OTA feed from your antenna, and bypass the 921 entirely. If you need sat channels, get a 301 or other basic receiver for the BR. It's only another $5 a month.

-Chris


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## sgt940 (Jan 9, 2004)

By the way zer0cool if you want to know what is playing in HD on your OTA channels go to titantv.com they have a seperate digital guide grid for your local area and it clearly states which programs are in HD.


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## zer0cool (Nov 24, 2004)

Yeah, I could pick up another receiver for the bedroom, but I'd have to change up my coax a little bit, since it currently runs from the dish to the receiver and then splits and goes to the two rooms. (My house is a little strange in the attic. There's absolutrly NO attic access to the bedroom ceiling). For that matter, if I'm rerunning cables, I could hook up my 721 in the bedroom. I just didn't want to go through the ordeal if the problem might be fixed soon. Thanks for the input, and sgt940, thanks for the tip. (Actually the Star-Telegram tv guide has HD programs labeled, I noticed today).


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## lujan (Feb 10, 2004)

PAUL_JK said:


> lujan -
> 
> I'm using my 921 with a Mits 52725, with both DVI and Component connections(for comparison). Have you noticed that the HDMI input on your set has much less contrast? I'm also having some trouble getting the HDMI connector on the TV to seat. It's very touchy. Sometimes I get reverse video and have to wiggle the connector. Have you see this on your 62525?
> 
> Thanks, Paul.


I'm just using the DVI/HDMI connection and not both, but I haven't had any problems with the contrast as well as getting the HDMI to seat correctly.


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