# Fox Sports 1



## domingos35 (Jan 12, 2006)

Is dish going to carry it?


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

DIsh and Directv and many others are still negotiating for it. Who knows at this point. After the PAC12 channel last year, its a coin toss IMHO on who will carry it.


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## PokerJoker (Apr 12, 2008)

Apparently Dish, Directv, and TW Cable all think that they should pay the same for FS1 as they have been paying for Speed Channel, which FS1 is replacing.

Fox, of course, has a different opinion.

Negotiations continue. It's not unusual for these things to drag on right up to the last minute - or sometimes beyond.


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## Ray [email protected] Network (Dec 28, 2010)

We are still negotiating for this channel. If you are interested in receiving FOX Sports 1, please PM me your account number so I can notate your account showing your interest in the channel. Please let me know. Thanks.



domingos35 said:


> Is dish going to carry it?


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## Steeloc15 (Oct 2, 2009)

Since this is a rebranding of the speed channel does Dish have the right to carry the channel until the current speed contract runs out or is it possible for the channel to be pulled on Aug 17th?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Steeloc15 said:


> Since this is a rebranding of the speed channel does Dish have the right to carry the channel until the current speed contract runs out or is it possible for the channel to be pulled on Aug 17th?


It depends on the contract. There have been some instances of a channel changing and the "old format" sticking around on a provider since that provider's contract to carry that format channel was still in effect. I'm not sure how Speed could go to a new format and maintain the old ... NASCAR is on Speed so I'd expect that to continue on the special "holdover channel" but would Speed brand the holdover channel as Fox Sports 1 or keep the speed logo on the screen?

Hopefully we won't find out - hopefully DISH and Fox will come to reasonable terms and a month from now we'll just have Fox Sports 1. But there seems to be enough unsigned contracts that Fox should be working on a "old format" backup - so they can comply with the contracts they have until they can get the major players to sign on to the new.

Or perhaps they have already invoked a cancellation clause in their old contracts and Speed will die on August 17th. It all depends on the contracts.


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## sregener (Apr 17, 2012)

The live programming Fox plans to show on FS1 is, in large part, being stolen from the Fox broadcast network. In other words, the total value of the programming with regards to live sports will not change. So will Fox gladly reduce their carriage fees for the broadcast networks? Fat chance. Are they reducing affiliation fees to compensate their "partners"? No, this is just another attempt to wring more money out of their viewers. And it will likely work, just as most other attempts have.


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## inazsully (Oct 3, 2006)

It all boils down to content. Nobody should expect to pay more for the same product. For a better product with more good stuff, sure. Key word here is GOOD. If they want acceptence they need to hit the ground running.


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

They should bundle sports like premium channels.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

I love sports and even I totally agree Paul. It's time to change their package. I don't think anyone would be yelling about a la cart if sports and its costs where all in its own package. Not tier but pa Kane available separate from and independently from everything else. 

I'd bet dish and directv would pick up all the missing sports channels too.


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## JYW10 (Jul 24, 2013)

Do you guys know if Fox Sports 1 will be available for customers with the AT 120+ and Multi Sports Pack, or if it'll just replace Speed in the AT 200? I would hate to have to lose the Fox Soccer Channel and have to pay more to watch some Champions League on Fox Sports 1. I hope it'll be available in the cheaper packages considering NBC wants to compete with ESPN, which is in the cheapest package and available to all Dish users. Thanks!


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

No one knows anything yet since they FOX doesn't have contracts with hardly anyone to carry it yet, including Directv and DIsh. Till they announce an agreement, no knows knows what tier ti would be in. Teir placement is likely one of the things being negotiated


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## Ray [email protected] Network (Dec 28, 2010)

We do not have any information about FOX Sports 1 yet. If anyone is interested in the channel, please PM me your account number and I can provide information on your interest to our programming department. Thanks.



JYW10 said:


> Do you guys know if Fox Sports 1 will be available for customers with the AT 120+ and Multi Sports Pack, or if it'll just replace Speed in the AT 200? I would hate to have to lose the Fox Soccer Channel and have to pay more to watch some Champions League on Fox Sports 1. I hope it'll be available in the cheaper packages considering NBC wants to compete with ESPN, which is in the cheapest package and available to all Dish users. Thanks!


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

sregener said:


> The live programming Fox plans to show on FS1 is, in large part, being stolen from the Fox broadcast network. In other words, the total value of the programming with regards to live sports will not change. So will Fox gladly reduce their carriage fees for the broadcast networks? Fat chance. Are they reducing affiliation fees to compensate their "partners"? No, this is just another attempt to wring more money out of their viewers. And it will likely work, just as most other attempts have.


That's a good thing to know. I hate it when a NASCAR race makes the 10 PM news run late. OTOH I'd also hate it if The NFL that is currently on FOX were to go to cable.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

I would not worry about the nfl moving until contracts are up again.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

As long as I get the channel I really don't care where the sport ends up. The challenge is making sure I can still get the channel. My local broadcast stations are independent of the networks ... so DISH has to negotiate with the station owner groups for carriage. Speed/FS1 is controlled by the network. Should I worry more about my local station groups telling DISH they cannot carry local channels or about Fox telling DISH they cannot carry network channels?

There comes a point where one notices the digit at the beginning of their DISH or other cable/satellite bill. Where did it come from and why is it getting bigger? I remember when there were only two digits before the decimal point. That first one kept getting bigger and bigger until it was replaced by a third digit.

The conflict over getting all the content I want vs paying for it is getting bigger. I can understand why more and more viewers are investigating and investing in ways of getting content without paying ... including methods that are not authorized by the content owners or distributors. (Although "it costs too much" is never an excuse for stealing content.)

I hope that a good deal can be made with FS1 for carriage and I can still see the sport I wish to see. I just wish my wages were going up as fast as my cable/satellite bill.


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## sregener (Apr 17, 2012)

inkahauts said:


> I would not worry about the nfl moving until contracts are up again.


I would not worry about the NFL moving. The reality is that the NFL recognizes that their popularity in large part comes from their availability on non-pay channels. They are the only sport I know of that insists that pay channels sell rights to local broadcast affiliates in the home town of teams playing, so that every fan in the home market can watch the game without having to have the pay channel. They would give preference to a contract with ABC, CBS or NBC over one with Fox Sports One. It would be quite a coup for CW to get NFL carriage. Remember the howls when Fox first got the NFC? Fox was a niche network with a smaller set of affiliates. Now, nobody blinks twice when Fox gets the rights to a major sporting event. The day Fox tries to move their NFL programming to pay TV is the day it will be time for a new upstart in town.

Exhibit B is the new deal that NASCAR signed with NBC. Included in that deal was the insistence that NBC carry many more races on broadcast television than ESPN and TNT did. NASCAR has lost popularity as ABC shifted more races over to ESPN.

Sports that have moved from the broadcast channels to the pay channels have done so at the cost of the popularity of their sport. They may be making more money, but they have fewer fans. The NFL has enough money they have no reason to distance themselves from their fans. NASCAR had enough fans, lost some of them, and now is making moves to woo them back. The NFL will not repeat NASCAR's error.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

I would not worry about the NFL moving. The reality is that the NFL recognizes that their popularity in large part comes from their availability on non-pay channels. They are the only sport I know of that insists that pay channels sell rights to local broadcast affiliates in the home town of teams playing, so that every fan in the home market can watch the game without having to have the pay channel. They would give preference to a contract with ABC, CBS or NBC over one with Fox Sports One. It would be quite a coup for CW to get NFL carriage. Remember the howls when Fox first got the NFC? Fox was a niche network with a smaller set of affiliates. Now, nobody blinks twice when Fox gets the rights to a major sporting event. The day Fox tries to move their NFL programming to pay TV is the day it will be time for a new upstart in town.

Exhibit B is the new deal that NASCAR signed with NBC. Included in that deal was the insistence that NBC carry many more races on broadcast television than ESPN and TNT did. NASCAR has lost popularity as ABC shifted more races over to ESPN. 

Sports that have moved from the broadcast channels to the pay channels have done so at the cost of the popularity of their sport. They may be making more money, but they have fewer fans. The NFL has enough money they have no reason to distance themselves from their fans. NASCAR had enough fans, lost some of them, and now is making moves to woo them back. The NFL will not repeat NASCAR's error.


Totally agree. Very well said.


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## JYW10 (Jul 24, 2013)

Any news on whether Dish is going to carry it and what package it'll be in? Thanks!


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

We aren't likely to know anything until the change happens.

Right now Dish carries the channel... under its current name and format... does the format/name change supercede the current agreement? IF not, then Dish carries it by default until that contract ends.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

The professional news sources online (and those who quote their content) are saying that the change is enough to trigger a renegotiation of contract. Providers are contracted to carry a motor sports channel ... FS 1 will be a general sports channel.

The good news from the professional reporters is that Fox is contracted to provide a motor sports channel. So it is likely that if no deal is made for FS 1 the motorsports content will continue on "Speed". This has happened several times. The quality and content of the "grandfathered Speed" is yet to be seen. Will it contain anything live or new or will it turn in to a loop of the same old programs that Speed airs between the good stuff? Some of Speed's current filler is expected to go to other channels ... so they may lose the right to use it even as filler.

Best case for a Plan B would be Speed continuing with their live and current content until all affiliate contracts expire over time or are rewritten as FS 1. But Plan A is the better outcome: Get FS 1!


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Poking around the web this afternoon ...

*All about FOX Soccer, FOX Sports 1*
Updated Aug 4, 2013 2:00 PM ET
http://msn.foxsports.com/foxsoccer/world/story/all-you-need-to-know-about-fox-soccer-and-fox-sports-1-080113

*What is FOX Sports 1?*
FOX Sports 1 is America's newest sports network, a national 24-hour cable channel being launched by FOX on August 17, 2013.

*What is FOX Sports 2?*
FOX Sports 2 is an extension of FOX Sports 1 that features live coverage of sporting events and connects with fans through entertaining studio shows and original programming.
There is also a link to the Fox Sports 1 website which includes news and a schedule for the first couple of weeks:
http://msn.foxsports.com/foxsports1

From the FAQ page on that site:
*What happens to SPEED programming when FOX Sports 1 launches?*
FOX Sports continues its major commitment to motorsports programming with top-level NASCAR events, including NASCAR Sprint Cup Series and NASCAR Camping World Truck Series races; popular programs like NASCAR RaceDay, NASCAR Victory Lane and NASCAR RaceHub; events from around the world, including Monster Energy Supercross; MotoGP World Championship; the ARCA Racing Series; the famed 24 Hours of Le Mans; and the popular Barrett-Jackson Collector Car auctions on a FOX channel.

Note that they say "on a Fox channel" ... not specifically on FS1.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

So we're less than 2 weeks away from finding out what will happen. I hope Dish figures out a way to get/keep the channel as a lot of my ACC sports have been on the FOX RSNs so I wouldn't be surprised to see something pop up on FS1 at some point.


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## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

I would not worry about the NFL ......


Guess you didn't notice Monday night football and now some games on Thursday are now Cable only. And the talk about Sunday night at least for some games going Cable.....


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## sregener (Apr 17, 2012)

tampa8 said:


> Guess you didn't notice Monday night football and now some games on Thursday are now Cable only. And the talk about Sunday night at least for some games going Cable.....


I noticed. The NFL has allowed limited cable exposure in the past. But consider: if your city's team is playing in the game - home or away - it is available on free broadcast television. What other sport does that?


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## inazsully (Oct 3, 2006)

Remember the blacked out home games that are not sell outs.


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## tommiet (Dec 29, 2005)

For the Dish Internet Response Team... Add my name to the list of folks that no longer want sports channels forced down on us. Add the channel, but don't ask everyone to pay for it.


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## JYW10 (Jul 24, 2013)

Any possibility that Fox Sports 1 will be available to those of us with the AT120+ and multi sports package? Currently, I don't have the Speed Channel and with the Fox Soccer Channel likely to shut down I would still like to get Champions League soccer coverage. Thanks!


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

tommiet said:


> For the Dish Internet Response Team... Add my name to the list of folks that no longer want sports channels forced down on us. Add the channel, but don't ask everyone to pay for it.


I feel the same about all the other channels that are in my package... I don't want to pay for those channels that I don't watch either.

A la cart discussions really are their own topic... and IF sports channels like these ever did separate from the main tiers and people got their "a la cart" ways... they might not like what they end up with as many of their favorite channels could no longer survive.


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## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

Ahh but a huge difference. Sports channels cost much more than what most regular channels do. The cost of sports channels in the packages add much more to the cost overall. That's the problem, and it's not just posters here saying it, the media has had several articles about it, and other carriers are feeling the pinch specifically from sports channels. Direct TV is more and more charging a surcharge for some markets because of sports costs.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

tampa8 said:


> Ahh but a huge difference. Sports channels cost much more than what most regular channels do. The cost of sports channels in the packages add much more to the cost overall. That's the problem, and it's not just posters here saying it, the media has had several articles about it, and other carriers are feeling the pinch specifically from sports channels. Direct TV is more and more charging a surcharge for some markets because of sports costs.


The sports channels cost more because more people want them... IF any of the other channels see their viewers increase, trust me, they ask for more money too...


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## Eksynyt (Feb 8, 2008)

6 days away now. I have a bad feeling that I will be missing Oregon's opening game this season because of this.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

tampa8 said:


> Ahh but a huge difference. Sports channels cost much more than what most regular channels do. The cost of sports channels in the packages add much more to the cost overall. That's the problem, and it's not just posters here saying it, the media has had several articles about it, and other carriers are feeling the pinch specifically from sports channels. Direct TV is more and more charging a surcharge for some markets because of sports costs.


Profit margins are much smaller that the cable channels. ESPN has one of the lowest. The sports channels get called greedy, when in reality, the non sports stations are the greedy ones.


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## FTA Michael (Jul 21, 2002)

Bad news for Dish subs (or DirecTV subs or TWC subs) hoping to watch Fox Sports 1: Still no deal.

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Daily/Issues/2013/08/12/Media/FS1-Carriage.aspx

"The three distributors said they are still in discussions with Fox to carry the channel, which launches Saturday. Distributors that do not cut a deal for FS1 by Saturday will continue to carry Speed, though it will be a stripped down version of the motorsports channel."


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## Gloria_Chavez (Aug 11, 2008)

sigma1914 said:


> Profit margins are much smaller that the cable channels. ESPN has one of the lowest. The sports channels get called greedy, when in reality, the non sports stations are the greedy ones.


You're way, way off the mark. ESPN is by FAR the most profitable business that Disney has. Half of Disney's 115B valuation is attributable to ESPN.

As for margins, DTV's 2Q13 operating (EBIT) margin was 20%. This is an exceptional figure.

But ESPN's....

38% operating margin in 2011.

http://beta.fool.com/danielsparks/2012/11/09/espn-disneys-reliable-cash-cow/16067/

38%!!!!!!!!!!

Amazing. They print cash at ESPN, at the expense of the NonSportsFan.


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## satcrazy (Mar 16, 2011)

tampa8 said:


> Ahh but a huge difference. Sports channels cost much more than what most regular channels do. The cost of sports channels in the packages add much more to the cost overall. That's the problem, and it's not just posters here saying it, the media has had several articles about it, and other carriers are feeling the pinch specifically from sports channels. Direct TV is more and more charging a surcharge for some markets because of sports costs.


Lets hope Dish doesn't do the same.
G Chavez made a good point.
So when is "enough" ENOUGH.
I'd be willing to bet a handfull of my preffered stations don't cost more than a sports pack.
So I have to pay for the stations I don't watch, like religious, shopping, cooking, reality based, info-mercial, etc, etc...
At least cost increase is not a big issue like espn, or fox sports, which I do not watch either.


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

You know, I was considering upgrading my service to to AT120+ come September to catch some college football, but I am reconsidering that, just to protest the constant drone for more and more money. Maybe I'll just spend that $10 per month on ice cream or something else that is unhealthy.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

The list of companies carrying Fox Sports One is growing ... but the top three companies are missing.

I wonder if Comcast and the other companies who have signed required "most favored nation" clauses that make their deal as good as the best deal signed? The MFN deals mean that Comcast could agree to the requested 80c now and $1.50 in the future, but if anyone gets a better deal Comcast's price would be reduced to whatever the other company negotiated.

There are still a couple of days to work this out before content is lost. The stripped version of Speed isn't worth watching (six hour loops of reruns each day).

Some of the content will be run or rerun on Fuel (channel 398). Looking forward in the guide to next Wednesday the NASCAR Truck race qualifying and race are on Fuel (in glorious SD).


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## Mariah2014 (Apr 21, 2006)

I would expect Comcat to have gone after that clause, but others like Charter I would doubt got that type of deal. Having said that the fact some of the content will air again on either Fox Sports 2 or Fox soccer plus may be part of the reason the 3 remaining holdouts in the top 7 or 8 companies are still holding out. The value of the channel is being lessened by putting the content in other places too.


James Long said:


> The list of companies carrying Fox Sports One is growing ... but the top three companies are missing.
> 
> I wonder if Comcast and the other companies who have signed required "most favored nation" clauses that make their deal as good as the best deal signed? The MFN deals mean that Comcast could agree to the requested 80c now and $1.50 in the future, but if anyone gets a better deal Comcast's price would be reduced to whatever the other company negotiated.
> 
> ...


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## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

sigma1914 said:


> Profit margins are much smaller that the cable channels. ESPN has one of the lowest. The sports channels get called greedy, when in reality, the non sports stations are the greedy ones.


You have it exactly backwards with ESPN being one of THE most profitable and costs DISH and other carriers about the most.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2012/11/09/why-espn-is-the-worlds-most-valuable-media-property-and-worth-40-billion/


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## Chihuahua (Sep 8, 2007)

I believe Dish Network will carry* Fox Sports 2* when it rolls out this Saturday on the channel that *Fuel TV* is currently located.


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## bnewt (Oct 2, 2003)

Stewart Vernon said:


> I feel the same about all the other channels that are in my package... I don't want to pay for those channels that I don't watch either.
> 
> A la cart discussions really are their own topic... and IF sports channels like these ever did separate from the main tiers and people got their "a la cart" ways... they might not like what they end up with as many of their favorite channels could no longer survive.


There are several channels in the basic packages that I don't watch, but I have to pay for them. What ticks me off is when one of these channels are dropped, but my monthly charge stays the same. Cloo is a perfect example.....it was dropped, but I see no reduction in my bill. The same when I lost some of locals due to dispute


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

bnewt said:


> There are several channels in the basic packages that I don't watch, but I have to pay for them. What ticks me off is when one of these channels are dropped, but my monthly charge stays the same. Cloo is a perfect example.....it was dropped, but I see no reduction in my bill. The same when I lost some of locals due to dispute


It's a blue moon when any provider will make such an adjustment, but it cuts both ways: Your bill doesn't go up (right away!) when a content provider renews at a higher rate. Or when channels are added.


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## tsmacro (Apr 28, 2005)

bnewt said:


> There are several channels in the basic packages that I don't watch, but I have to pay for them. What ticks me off is when one of these channels are dropped, but my monthly charge stays the same. Cloo is a perfect example.....it was dropped, but I see no reduction in my bill. The same when I lost some of locals due to dispute


Your channel package doesn't go down in price the minute that a channel is pulled just like it doesn't go up immediately when a channel is added. However it isn't unusual if you call Dish and let them know that you feel you're not getting your money's worth because they removed a channel that you like and are missing for them to issue you some kind of small credit or offer a promo to you.


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## Willh (Jan 1, 2009)

according to an article from NY Daily News' site, it looks like Time Warner Cable will be the one trying to hold out while Dish and Direct are expected to have it on launch day. but this is pure speculation so take it with a grain of salt:

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/new-fox-sports-1-battles-time-warner-cable-access-article-1.1425993


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I would think that IF Dish is close to an agreement, we might see something positive (like a test channel) on the uplink report soon. They can do these things same-day... but usually like to test an uplink for a few days before launch... so it would be a semi-positive sign if today's uplink shows any action.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Gloria_Chavez said:


> You're way, way off the mark. ESPN is by FAR the most profitable business that Disney has. Half of Disney's 115B valuation is attributable to ESPN.
> 
> As for margins, DTV's 2Q13 operating (EBIT) margin was 20%. This is an exceptional figure.
> 
> ...





tampa8 said:


> You have it exactly backwards with ESPN being one of THE most profitable and costs DISH and other carriers about the most.
> 
> http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2012/11/09/why-espn-is-the-worlds-most-valuable-media-property-and-worth-40-billion/


I misspoke when I said low/small profit margin. I meant cash flow margin.



> What it shows is just how fat cable networks have become. According to its research, more than 30 networks have margins of 50% or more topped by Nickelodeon, with a 64.6% margin and the Food Network at 60.5%.
> ...
> "In addition, sports networks typically have lower cash flow margins than general entertainment and other genres," the reports says. "ESPN, for instance, which makes up almost 15% of industry revenue, has a cash flow margin of just 25.3%."


http://www.tvnewscheck.com/article/55785/uncovering-the-truth-about-retrans-value


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Stewart Vernon said:


> I would think that IF Dish is close to an agreement, we might see something positive (like a test channel) on the uplink report soon. They can do these things same-day... but usually like to test an uplink for a few days before launch... so it would be a semi-positive sign if today's uplink shows any action.


FS 1 is replacing Speed ... so the only Uplink Activity I expect is a name change (at 6am or 7am Saturday morning).

The backend change from the feed that will actually be FS 1 and the feed that will remain Speed and play the six hour loops shouldn't affect the Uplink Activity we see.

There may be a "package flag change" if FS 1 ends up in ESPN's package (AT120) instead of AT200. Fuel TV in AT250 may also move down depending on what the final contract is.

If there is a test channel for Fuel TV HD that would show up in Uplink Activity ... but I'm expecting an announcement before any Uplink Activity.


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## DCSholtis (Aug 7, 2002)

Per the LA Times the carrage deal is done:

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/envelope/cotown/la-et-ct-fox-sports-distribution-20130814,0,5466870.story

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using DBSTalk mobile app


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Yes, Hooo-Aaaaaaah! 

AND, we get to see Regis Philbin. What a bonus!!! 


:nono2:


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Yay!


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I hadn't thought that the replacing of existing channels angle... It sounds (from what I've read) like FS1 will replace Speed and FS2 will replace Fuel... that being the case, maybe they will be using the proven transmission paths and not have to do much testing until the last minute... so I guess we could get a Friday surprise in a late night uplink IF these deals are really done.


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## kingram52 (Jul 1, 2007)

They have reached agreement TODAY with FOX to carry FOX Sports 1, details to follow.


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## kingram52 (Jul 1, 2007)

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/envelope/cotown/la-et-ct-fox-sports-distribution-20130814,0,5466870.story

Fox wants their channel in the basic package , so we will see saturday where its going.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Thank goodness that speculation is over. Now what will the channel numbers become?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

150 is Speed and will easily become Fox Sports 1
151 is open and could easily become Fox Sports 2 (Fuel)

The ads running on Speed say to look for Fox Sports 1 on the same channel number as Speed.
(Ads that have been playing all week.)


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## JYW10 (Jul 24, 2013)

Any chance FS1 will be available to AT120+ and Multi Sport package customers?


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

As I carefully re-read some things... I'm actually not seeing anything that mentions FS2 currently being part of the agreement. Surely it is... but every article I see (maybe they are all referring to the same original report earlier today?) specifically mentions "an agreement to carry FS1"... Heck, they don't even mention if HD carriage is part of this deal, though surely it is.

I have a feeling like we aren't going to know until Friday about FS1 HD or not, and maybe still not about FS2 then... and if Dish follows previous deals they might put FS1 in a free preview for a couple of weeks so we still might not know for sure what package it is going to be in going forward.

We *should* know by Friday... but if this was as last-minute as it seems... who knows when the official word will get out. I keep checking the FS1 Web site and they don't have any recent FOX press releases where I would expect to find some of this kind of info... which means either they are slow to update OR the final dots and eyes aren't done yet on the contracts.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

The deal isn't finalized ... but Fuel's EPG has been showing the expected "FS 2" programming starting Saturday. With all the talk about "the one", FS 2 is under the radar.

I suspect some of the details being worked out include channel placement for FS 2 and package level for the channels. If Fox Sports wants to compete with ESPN they need to be at ESPN's level ... which means DISH needs to deliver the channel to ~4 million more subscribers than receive Speed (and if FS 2 comes along for the ride it would jump two tiers).

I'll be surprised if FS 1 does not end up in AT120. FS 2 is more of a specialty channel that might get sacrificed to be at AT250/Sports Pack. But not having FS 1 in AT120 does not deliver DISH's 14 million subscribers to complete the 90 million subscribers.


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## rtd2 (Oct 2, 2006)

Dish reps on Facebook just confirmed the FS1 deal. It will as expected be on channel 150 and AT 200 and up package. Still no " official " response on FS2


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## rtd2 (Oct 2, 2006)

Now they(dish) are saying on Facebook
FS2 will be in AT120 Ch398 SD only.
FS1 will be in AT200. Ch150 HD
FXX Ch390 In HD no pkg indicated - Sept 2nd


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## kingram52 (Jul 1, 2007)

Just got off the phone with Dish , they say Fox sports 1 will indeed be in the 200 pkg, and FOX2 will be in the 250 pkg ,Fox can't be happy about that being that ESPN is in the 120 pkg, bummer so now I have to spend $15 more a month to watch the UFC, I guess I should of stayed with DirecTV.


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## Mariah2014 (Apr 21, 2006)

Fox caved and took what they could get, which was allow them to have the channel at the cost and location of what they were getting for Speed.



kingram52 said:


> Just got off the phone with Dish , they say Fox sports 1 will indeed be in the 200 pkg, and FOX2 will be in the 250 pkg ,Fox can't be happy about that being that ESPN is in the 120 pkg, bummer so now I have to spend $15 more a month to watch the UFC, I guess I should of stayed with DirecTV.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

It looks more like an OWN type of deal. OWN thought it could cancel the Discovery Health carriage contracts and renegotiate an Oprah sized fee for the new channel. They ended up getting carriage under their continuing contract.

Speed and Fuel have contracts for carriage. Just hold the status quo, keep calm and carry on.

When they prove their worth they can renegotiate for what they want (or at least what they can get).


If I were FS1 I'd be pushing for AT120. How can you be the next ESPN without being in EVERY home?

If I were DISH I'd want a price freeze or reduction for moving Speed/FS 1 to AT120 (and the same for Fuel if moved). If DISH is paying ~23c per subscriber for 10 million (estimated) AT200 and above subscribers even paying ~23c per subscriber for all 14 million is an additional cost (40% increase to Fox) and it takes away one of the channels DISH uses to convince people to pay a more for AT200 instead of AT120 ... so they could end up paying more and collecting less.


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## Steeloc15 (Oct 2, 2009)

SD only for FS2??? Thought for sure the new deal would include adding HD for FS2.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

The way I read the releases, there is no new deal. Fox Sports 1 and 2 will be carried under the old deals.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

That's kind of what it sounds like to me too... they basically "renewed" Speed and Fuel but will be renaming them... As has been said IF the channels prove themselves and find their audience, they may be able to negotiate better tiers in the future.

Kind of a disappointment that FS2 will only be in SD, though... I hope nothing I want to watch will be on FS2.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Hate to follow myself... but the more I read online, the more it sounds like Dish, DirecTV, and Time Warner didn't really strike a deal after all for long-term carriage... but rather FOX wanted to have the eyes starting on launch day so they relented and agreed to allow FS1 + FS2 under already agreed upon terms for Speed and FuelTV... which means IF the channel is a flop, we're golden... but IF the channel picks up viewers and gets good ratings, expect FOX and everybody to be back at the table sooner rather than later.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Whenever the normal contract end date for Speed, Fuel and Fox Soccer comes up for each company.

It was my hope that "Grandfathered Speed" (the Speed channel for providers who did not sign a contract for FS 1) would be a channel that still carried the type of content on the current speed, Not six hour rerun loops of mostly "reality shows" but the motorsports coverage that is on Speed. "Grandfathered Speed" would not have the new non-motor sports content (UFC etc ...) but would have the content DISH and other companies agreed to carry. Of course, based on the EPG for Speed starting Saturday (on Zap2It and the DISH receivers) it was going to be six hour rerun loops. Which for Fox was a good decision ... less viewers would spend the weekend calling the non-compliant cable and satellite companies if the normal programs were on.

The thought that Fox might be in breach of content if they reformatted Speed and removed the motorsports content probably helped Fox make the decision to allow carriers with a contract for Speed to get Fox Sports 1 without a new contract. That and their very public promise to be in 90 million homes. Gotta keep your promises.

For now, I don't believe any cable/satellite will be upset with getting the new content on FS 1, FS 2 and FXX. Some viewers may be upset by the content moving to Fuel/FS 2 (especially those who don't get Fuel in HD - and Fuel being in a more expensive package doesn't help). But it seems the best is moving from Fuel and Fox Soccer TO FS 1 - which makes content available to people who may not want to pay for the higher package.

So when is the Speed contract up? Will it be at the same time as Fuel? That is when the war will begin. 
But at least by then there will be viewership data to look at ... not just promises.


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## RasputinAXP (Jan 23, 2008)

I'm all for continued carriage until we see what eyes they bring to the table.


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

I don't watch sports regularary. i just watch the World Series & Super Bowl.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

It would be nice to have the right EPG ...


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

James Long said:


> It would be nice to have the right EPG ...


I just said that (in a different way) in the uplink thread 

I wanted to see what shows are on... no sports that I care about yet I know... but might want to see some of their new studio shows to see what I like... but hard to do that when the schedule is not updated.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

*Fox Backs Down From FS1 Asking Price In Order To Get Deals With All Major Carriers*

"_The frenzied rush that saw several of the country's biggest distributors agree to carry FS1 at launch occurred only after Fox surprisingly backed off its asking price of $0.80 per subscriber per month, according to multiple high-level sources. Cablevision, Cox, DirecTV, Dish Network and Time Warner Cable agreed to carry the new, heavily promoted all-sports channel, but only at the same rate they were paying for the previous channel, Speed, which was $0.23 per subscriber per month. Fox told the distributors that it would convert Speed into FS1 and allow distributors with existing Speed deals to carry it at Speed's rate, or at least close to it, according to multiple sources with direct knowledge of the talks. None of the distributors would comment beyond official statements._"

Full article *here*.

Seems to confirm what we have basically been saying... FOX wasn't making any headway towards new contracts so rather than have egg on their face they decided to do a workaround and wait until later to have the fight. Now I'm wondering when the Speed/Fuel contracts with Dish and DirecTV will expire and we will have the real fight for carriage.


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## sregener (Apr 17, 2012)

Stewart Vernon said:


> Seems to confirm what we have basically been saying... FOX wasn't making any headway towards new contracts so rather than have egg on their face they decided to do a workaround and wait until later to have the fight. Now I'm wondering when the Speed/Fuel contracts with Dish and DirecTV will expire and we will have the real fight for carriage.


It's the classic chicken-and-the-egg problem. "We're going to have lots of quality programs, but we need the money to buy the rights to them." "But nobody watches your channel." "That's because we can't buy quality programs." Except this is Fox, and they have more than enough money to subsidize the channel at launch to get it in as many homes as possible. What they have to do is deliver high ratings, which will indicate high demand, and then providers will be willing to pay almost 400% more for it over Speed. What hurts FS1 in this matter is that Speed is typically not in basic packages, and it remains to be seen if many customers will upgrade their packages to get it. Without enough customers getting it, they won't get high enough ratings to justify the increase.

Personally, as an AT250 customer, I don't really have to worry about it. And yes, eventually FS1 is going to have some programming I want to watch on it. Maybe even a lot. But it's just content that I was getting elsewhere already, so it translates into yet another price increase for the same programming. Just like I was getting all the Big10 football I needed before the Big10 Channel came along, but now I'm paying a lot more for it.


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## fudpucker (Jul 23, 2007)

OK, I switched over to FS1/ Channel 150 just now, and the channel is indeed FS1. And the schedule at 11:30 AM CST shows what it should be. However, they are advertising on the web site for FS1 various programs later in the day, including a live UFC match tonight at 7 CST, but I can't set the DVR to record it because the DIsh schedule shows what look like Speed shows at that time (Pumped?)

Any idea what's going on with the schedule? Would love to be able to record some things on the new channel! Any DIRT members that can provide insight?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

The EPG schedule is the one provided by Tribune Media Services for "Speed". It is not the correct schedule for "FS 1".

Hopefully DISH will get the correct schedule loaded but based on past performance it may be next week.
(DISH didn't even bother to change the channel name this morning.)

DISH did manage to add FS 1 and FS 2 to their DISH Perks site as new channels. But the EPG/uplink has not changed.


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## fudpucker (Jul 23, 2007)

James Long said:


> The EPG schedule is the one provided by Tribune Media Services for "Speed". It is not the correct schedule for "FS 1".
> 
> Hopefully DISH will get the correct schedule loaded but based on past performance it may be next week.
> (DISH didn't even bother to change the channel name this morning.)
> ...


OK, here is an ignorant question - I'm so spoiled by the simple DVR options - how do I set up the DVR to record the UFC fight that comes on at 7 CST tonight on 150 if I can't click on the program in the guide and choose to record it?


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## fudpucker (Jul 23, 2007)

fudpucker said:


> OK, here is an ignorant question - I'm so spoiled by the simple DVR options - how do I set up the DVR to record the UFC fight that comes on at 7 CST tonight on 150 if I can't click on the program in the guide and choose to record it?


OK, never mind, looked up via Google and set up a manual timer for 7:00 PM to 10:30 PM (CST) on 150. Hopefully that works, and I'll just check Fox Sports 1's website until they get the schedule fixed on Dish.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

I'm glad you found it. I set a couple of manual timers for this morning's coverage (knowing that they would stick even if DISH fixed the EPG). It looks like I'll probably need to set more for Monday.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

fudpucker said:


> OK, never mind, looked up via Google and set up a manual timer for 7:00 PM to 10:30 PM (CST) on 150. Hopefully that works, and I'll just check Fox Sports 1's website until they get the schedule fixed on Dish.


You might want to start a 5pm CST for the prelims if you want. At 4pm is a preshow, I believe.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Yep... manual timers will be the only way to record stuff more than an hour or two out until Dish gets new data from Tribune... and it sure doesn't look like that is happening today.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Then again ... the EPG is now fixed for current and next program. Forcing a download (or waiting until the early AM) should load the correct guide.

The channel name is still wrong ... but at least they did something for the EPG.


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## jsk (Dec 27, 2006)

This was announced a while ago. You would have thought that Tribune would have corrected their listings before today.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

jsk said:


> This was announced a while ago. You would have thought that Tribune would have corrected their listings before today.


DISH's carriage was only "announced" on Thursday?

The issue was on DISH's end ... pointing to channel "58508" (the old Speed HD) instead of "82541" (SD) or "82547" (HD) Fox Sports 1. It appears that DISH has now fixed that. But the way the EPG is loaded into the boxes most receivers won't see the guide until the nightly download (other than present and next program). DISH does not continuously update EPG on receivers other than present/next.


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## Eksynyt (Feb 8, 2008)

Dish has Fox Sports 2 in SD only. That's going to be annoying when the FS1 college football games run long and the second game has to start on FS2 in SD only. Come on over to DirecTV if you want it in HD. But don't come to DirecTV if you want the Pac 12 Network...an annoying dilemma.

Still glad both providers at least have the channel now.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

We'll see how it goes ... FS 1 will have the prime content. A few minutes of SD during an overlap is not the worst thing.

It looks like my Speed timers for NASCAR transferred over to FS 1. That is good news. But for moving content (Fuel to FS 1, Fox Soccer to FS 1, etc) people should check and recreate their timers!


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I was out for a while... came back and I see better EPG data. I checked out through Monday evening, didn't go any further than that to see, but it all looked better to me so that's a pleasant surprise.


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

If FS1 is supposed to be a competitor of ESPN, they better get it moved to AT120 ASAP - I'll not upgrade my package just to see it.


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## Jason Whiddon (Aug 17, 2006)

I just hope they change the name soon, seeing SpeedHD there is annoying.


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## Jason Whiddon (Aug 17, 2006)

James Long said:


> DISH's carriage was only "announced" on Thursday?
> 
> The issue was on DISH's end ... pointing to channel "58508" (the old Speed HD) instead of "82541" (SD) or "82547" (HD) Fox Sports 1. It appears that DISH has now fixed that. But the way the EPG is loaded into the boxes most receivers won't see the guide until the nightly download (other than present and next program). DISH does not continuously update EPG on receivers other than present/next.


There are two different sites reporting today that a deal was not reached, they just agreed to carry the channels while talks were still ongoing. I hope Dish does not pull some crap here.


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## jsk (Dec 27, 2006)

James Long said:


> DISH's carriage was only "announced" on Thursday?


True, but the EPG was showing the schedule for Speed when it didn't exist anymore. I don't see how Tribune could have guide data for a channel that doesn't exist. You would think it would at least say "To be announced."


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

jsk said:


> True, but the EPG was showing the schedule for Speed when it didn't exist anymore. I don't see how Tribune could have guide data for a channel that doesn't exist. You would think it would at least say "To be announced."


Earlier this week the intent was to have Speed continue in a stripped down form, airing six hour rerun blocks that would change each day. This was intended to fulfill Fox's agreement with DISH, DirecTV and other providers to provide a "motor sports channel". The programs in that guide were posted on the Tribune data driven "Zap2It" as well as in the DISH EPG.

The data was for what Speed was going to become. Fortunately Fox agreed to allow carriers with contracts for Speed to carry Fox Sports 1 in its place.


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## Cable Lover (Jun 19, 2007)

So far, I am really enjoying the FS1 channel. Hopefully we will eventually get the FS2 in HD.


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## Cable Lover (Jun 19, 2007)

In case anyone was wondering about the ratings for FS1:
http://www.sbnation.com/2013/8/18/4634532/fox-sports-1-ratings


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## dennispap (Feb 1, 2007)

Names for the two fox sports channels have been changed in the guide display.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Finally ... It is a shame that DISH didn't have a smooth release (name changes Saturday morning and correct EPG). But at least the programming was there (if that was in their control).


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Only thing left is for 922/Hopper/Joey customers to get the channel icons for the EPG.

It looks weird now to see FOXS1 with the SPEEDHD logo


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## CeeWoo (Dec 1, 2008)

OK, I'm officially burnt out from an overdose of UFC


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Not a fan of fighting in general (UFC, Boxing, fighting in Hockey, etc.) and also despite being born and raised in the south, virtually in the heart of NASCAR country... I care very little about racing... so there was a lot of programming for me to ignore.

Their version of "Sportscenter" felt like they were trying too hard. To be fair, look back at old clips from when ESPN launched back in the day and they took a while to get the ball rolling... so I can give a pass somewhat to FS1... but it looks like they want you to think "we are better than ESPN" while simultaneously trying their hardest to BE ESPN. That seems like a recipe for disaster. What helped FOX way back in the day with their NFL broadcasts when they bought that and scooped it out from CBS... was that they didn't try to be CBS or NBC... they did their own thing and innovated.

I watched "Crowd Goes Wild" today... and it was a little painful to watch. I felt bad for Regis... and most of the show was just cringeworthy. ATH and PTI are on vacation this week from ESPN, but I don't see this as a challenge to the 5pm timeslot once those shows come back next week.

FS1 needs to be FS1... and not try to be the new ESPN. I would rather seem them try their own thing and find their own way than trying to ape what they think people like about ESPN.


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## JYW10 (Jul 24, 2013)

Will FS1 and FS2 be available in HD anytime soon? Thanks!


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

FS 1 is already available in HD. FS 2 is not carried in HD on DISH.


BTW: I see logos today. Yesterday the logos were blank, today they are correct.


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## JYW10 (Jul 24, 2013)

James Long said:


> FS 1 is already available in HD. FS 2 is not carried in HD on DISH.
> 
> BTW: I see logos today. Yesterday the logos were blank, today they are correct.


Oh I see, thanks. Also, any possibilities FS1 drops to the AT120 or AT120+? Don't see how they can compete with ESPN without doing so.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

FS1/2 getting to lower tiers will be entirely dependent on how they do in the ratings by the time their contract comes up for renewal. You can be sure FS1/2 wanted to be in a lower tier but nobody (Dish, DirecTV, Time Warner in particular) was willing to sign them up... so they essentially agreed to take the current deals in place for Speed and Fuel and negotiate again later.


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## olds403 (Nov 20, 2007)

So is there any word on availability of Speed content on other channels? I checked the guide and didn't see much speed content on FS1 or FS2. I am specifically referring to non-nascar automotive content such as Pinks, Pass-Time, Top Gear, etc...


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

While I don't know for sure... since FOX is replacing Speed and Fuel with FS1 and FS2... I have to assume that they will keep their higher rated/popular programming from Speed/Fuel BUT that there will likely be some casualties to make room for the other sport coverage on the new channels.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

I thought some of that stuff was moving to the other reality/sports channels. (I can't remember which, but I'm thinking Spike, TruTV or something along that line.)


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## JYW10 (Jul 24, 2013)

Stewart Vernon said:


> FS1/2 getting to lower tiers will be entirely dependent on how they do in the ratings by the time their contract comes up for renewal. You can be sure FS1/2 wanted to be in a lower tier but nobody (Dish, DirecTV, Time Warner in particular) was willing to sign them up... so they essentially agreed to take the current deals in place for Speed and Fuel and negotiate again later.


Any idea when "later" might be? I have no idea when their contracts end.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

JYW10 said:


> Any idea when "later" might be? I have no idea when their contracts end.


I actually don't know. Since I wasn't a follower of Speed/Fuel before I had no reason to be interested... but now I wish I did know, because I will have more interest in FS1/2 than I did in the channels they replaced. My gut says no shorter than 6 months, but maybe no longer than a year... but that's just a guess.


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## JYW10 (Jul 24, 2013)

This is a random question, but which service costs more, the AT250 or AT120+ with Multi Sports Pack? Not sure which to get with my contract running down.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Without looking, I have to think AT250 costs more... but of course it doesn't have all the RSNs that you'd get with multisport.


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## sregener (Apr 17, 2012)

$4 less for AT120+ w/ Multi-Sport. And Stewart is right, it's a different mix of channels.


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## olds403 (Nov 20, 2007)

I have to say that FS1 was NOT a good replacement for Speed. Seems to be mostly FOX sports live, some NASCAR and a bunch of football and UFC stuff. I think there was already enough football on other channels, we didn't need another football channel. It was nice having automotive programming all in one place.


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## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

Many are qualifying for the 1/2 off Sports Pack deal which would make 120+ about $9.50 less. But as noted you are talking about two very different packages.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

olds403 said:


> I have to say that FS1 was NOT a good replacement for Speed. Seems to be mostly FOX sports live, some NASCAR and a bunch of football and UFC stuff. I think there was already enough football on other channels, we didn't need another football channel. It was nice having automotive programming all in one place.


Actually part if the point is they are pulling a lot of football and latter baseball and so on to this one channel and clearing up the others.

Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk mobile app


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## olds403 (Nov 20, 2007)

inkahauts said:


> Actually part if the point is they are pulling a lot of football and latter baseball and so on to this one channel and clearing up the others.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk mobile app


And that leaves customers that liked Speed and non-nascar automotive content where???


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Subscribing to AT250 (or AT120+) to get Fuel (FS2).

The "filler" motorsports content is about the only thing that cannot be found.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

olds403 said:


> And that leaves customers that liked Speed and non-nascar automotive content where???


It should also be mostly spread among the two new fs channels. Just less repeats. As far as the auxilary stuff, I dont know, but Ill bet it ends up on other channels like fxx.


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