# 501/508/510 Update P3.09



## Boompod

From the Tech Portal:

05/16/2006: 1100 Software Version P3.09 for DVR 501/508/510

Effective Wednesday, May 17th, Engineering plans to spool a PARTIAL PHASE of software version P3.09 for the DVR 501/508/510 receiver. This is primarily a non-forced maintenance release available at ALL satellite locations.

At this time P3.07, P3.08, and P3.09 will be the valid software versions for the DVR 501/508/510.


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## Grandude

I hope it fixes the missing 110 (satellite) when going to the 'info' screen. Annoying to have to do a switch check every time.


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## ebaltz

And of course still no NBR, a year after Charlie said it was coming.


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## David_Levin

ebaltz said:


> And of course still no NBR, a year after Charlie said it was coming.


According to the tech chat we'll first get the VOD feature that very few people want.... Does Charlie really think people are going to pay those fees?


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## DennyC

I've got 3.09 on my 508 and am already irritated. Now, when I hit the button to go to my list of recorded programs, it doesn't go there-- it goes to another menu page, where I have to choose "My Recordings", instead of "Movies & More" (aka Dish-On-Demand) or "Cancel".

Since I'll never use "Movies & More", if anybody figures out how to get it to directly the list of recorded programs like it did before, please let me know!


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## harsh

DennyC said:


> Since I'll never use "Movies & More", if anybody figures out how to get it to directly the list of recorded programs like it did before, please let me know!


IIRC, the best you can do at this time is to press the DVR button twice. The again, that may be the sequence for some other afflicted receiver.


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## DennyC

harsh said:


> IIRC, the best you can do at this time is to press the DVR button twice. The again, that may be the sequence for some other afflicted receiver.


Well, duh, I just discovered the Dish "improvement" this morning and hadn't tried that. Works, just like you said.

Okay, so I'm not quite as irritated now.


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## finniganps

ebaltz said:


> And of course still no NBR, a year after Charlie said it was coming.


I have no expectation of NBR on my 508 or 721. The receivers are quite old now and I accept Dish has moved on to the latest receivers. I still love the 508 and 721.


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## jrbdmb

finniganps said:


> I have no expectation of NBR on my 508 or 721. The receivers are quite old now and I accept Dish has moved on to the latest receivers. I still love the 508 and 721.


Too bad Dish decided that these old receivers "deserved" VOD.


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## Ray_Schwarz

ebaltz said:


> And of course still no NBR, a year after Charlie said it was coming.


What is "NBR" ?


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## Chris Blount

Ray_Schwarz said:


> What is "NBR" ?


NBR is "Name Based Recording".


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## finniganps

jrbdmb said:


> Too bad Dish decided that these old receivers "deserved" VOD.


Cable forced the issue since that is a competitive advantage for them. Dish can claim they have it too....they'll leave off the fact that they're taking up your HD space to do it.


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## JohnL

finniganps said:


> Cable forced the issue since that is a competitive advantage for them. Dish can claim they have it too....they'll leave off the fact that they're taking up your HD space to do it.


Finn,

Dish is NOT using YOUR Hard Drive Space. All the bytes that were used before the update for your Recordings are still there.

The VOD software is using Space that Dish reserved for their own use. Your Recoding Time is NOT been subtracted.

The 501 is the only receiver that doesn't have enough reserved space for the VOD application. Even then I'm not even sure that VOD will be available on the 501.

John


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## finniganps

JohnL said:


> Finn,
> 
> Dish is NOT using YOUR Hard Drive Space. All the bytes that were used before the update for your Recordings are still there.
> 
> The VOD software is using Space that Dish reserved for their own use. Your Recoding Time is NOT been subtracted.
> 
> The 501 is the only receiver that doesn't have enough reserved space for the VOD application. Even then I'm not even sure that VOD will be available on the 501.
> 
> John


Point I'm making is that if the space wasn't reserved, we'd have more HD space to record more ourselves.


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## JohnL

finniganps said:


> Point I'm making is that if the space wasn't reserved, we'd have more HD space to record more ourselves.


Finn,

Okay, but these receivers have ALWAYS been adverstised as having a specific amount of HARD DRIVE space for the user, that has NOT BEEN CHANGED. Whether you think you should have more control over how much space is pointless, these receivers are manufactured and the service is from another company, so you and I have to abide by those conditions. In the End we still have the same amount of space as we had before the VOD "Feature".

Any way you slice it a significant amount of space has to be reserved by Dish for the Pause Buffer, EPG Data, and Operating System.

John


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## P Smith

JohnL, I don't know where you getting the info, but those ppl who do not afraid to be a mad scientist  did some research of the 501,508 or 510's disks and I can say your knowledge less then real.

I used some program what show partitions and file's allocation; let see what the 510 model's disk have: 120 GB total, it have reserved VOD partition 30+ GB; EPG data around 25 MB, no Operation System files at all - only very small partition for download new firmware; pause buffer taking space in same partition where are all recording stored ~80 GB. If you wanna be a mentor, I would mandatory recommend to you - run the program [PVRdInfo at Yahoo group] and GET the knowledge !


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## JohnL

P Smith said:


> JohnL, I don't know where you getting the info, but those ppl who do not afraid to be a mad scientist  did some research of the 501,508 or 510's disks and I can say your knowledge less then real.
> 
> I used some program what show partitions and file's allocation; let see what the 510 model's disk have: 120 GB total, it have reserved VOD partition 30+ GB; EPG data around 25 MB, no Operation System files at all - only very small partition for download new firmware; pause buffer taking space in same partition where are all recording stored ~80 GB. If you wanna be a mentor, I would mandatory recommend to you - run the program [PVRdInfo at Yahoo group] and GET the knowledge !


P Smith,

Less than Real, okay. Look, I stated that Dish reserved space for the VOD, EPG, Pause Buffer, and the OS.

Talk about splitting hairs, about the details. I never professed to know all the details, but the receiver's Operation requires the Hard Drive so some instructions and other content is being written to the Hard Drive during it's use. You think I need to "MANDATORYLY" run a program on my LEASED Dish receiver, your NUTS.

The Bottomlline is that Dish owns the Firmware and as such they determine how the hard drive space is used, 99.99999% of subs DO NOT CARE, as long as they can use the same amount of space POST VOD as PRE VOD.

John


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## Stewart Vernon

Is it even possible to have a mandatory recommendation?


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## P Smith

Well, "significant amount of space has to be reserved by Dish for the Pause Buffer, EPG Data, and Operating System" wasn't brightest suggestion.
It should be stated as - significant amount of space has to be reserved by Dish for the VOD. 
Now tell me why only customers with 510 model MUST pay DVR fee ? NOT THOSE WHO HAVE 508 OR 501.


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## P Smith

HDMe said:


> Is it even possible to have a mandatory recommendation?


Shortage in knowledge can't be substituting by flaming. ShortMe :grin:


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## harsh

P Smith said:


> Now tell me why only customers with 510 model MUST pay DVR fee ? NOT THOSE WHO HAVE 508 OR 501.


Because they decided after the introduction of the 501 and 508 that they were going to start charging for the feature. This is, first and foremost, a technique of bringing in more money but it is also a recognition that cable is doing the same thing.


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## P Smith

My point was, Dish that time added a fee thinking to cover future VOD; 
but later came to the bright idea to milk customes twice.
Reserving 1/3 disk space ( not using it for 5 years !!) make more sense, if they initially planned the fee for VOD.


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## tampa8

JohnL, stick to your guns - you are 100% correct. *"Less than Real, okay. Look, I stated that Dish reserved space for the VOD, EPG, Pause Buffer, and the OS.

Talk about splitting hairs, about the details. I never professed to know all the details, but the receiver's Operation requires the Hard Drive so some instructions and other content is being written to the Hard Drive during it's use. You think I need to "MANDATORYLY" run a program on my LEASED Dish receiver, your NUTS.

The Bottomlline is that Dish owns the Firmware and as such they determine how the hard drive space is used, 99.99999% of subs DO NOT CARE, as long as they can use the same amount of space POST VOD as PRE VOD.*

And no, I have not "used some program what show partitions" but I don't need to. I have a certain amount available for recordings. Period.


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## Sat4me

What is VOD?


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## James Long

finniganps said:


> Point I'm making is that if the space wasn't reserved, we'd have more HD space to record more ourselves.


But the space IS reserved and has been from the day you got the receiver. It would remain reserved even if E* didn't bother to deliver the long awaited VOD feature. (Long awaited by E*, not nessisarily their customers. )


P Smith said:


> Shortage in knowledge can't be substituting by flaming. ShortMe :grin:


Is that a flame? :sure:


Sat4me said:


> What is VOD?


Video on Demand.

On cable it is usually causing the cable company to send you (and only you) a specific program on demand. On satellite it is done by "pre-loading" specific programs to your receiver and allowing you to view them "on demand" for a specific length of time (currently 24hrs).

BTW: When the 24hrs ends the viewing ends - even if you are halfway through a movie at 23hr 59min.


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## JohnL

Sat4me said:


> What is VOD?


Sat4me,

VOD is Video On Demand. Dish's version of VOD is a bit of a misnomer when compared with Cables version of it.

Basicially Dish's version is only a different way of ordering PPV, and you pay a One Dollar premium for ordering the PPV as a VOD.

John


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## Hoobastank

I don't care how they do it, I just want my Howard Stern on demand!


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## ccapps3428

Can you lock VOD like PPV as to not allow it to be purchased from a secondary receiver?


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## manicd

Grandude said:


> I hope it fixes the missing 110 (satellite) when going to the 'info' screen. Annoying to have to do a switch check every time.


Just got the 3.09 upgrade 20 minutes ago on one of my 501s. It now shows the 110 satellite as being there.


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## Allen Noland

Here are the release notes:

Dish-On-Demand menu support (508/510 only)


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## MDRNHL

309 smashed into my 510 sometime between last night and this afternoon. I didn't notice it until I got home from work and couldn't get a picture. I would get the channel banner, but with a black screen & no sound. Rebooted the box by holding in the power button 10 seconds, and when it came back up it wouldn't progress step 0 of acquiring a signal. So I rebooted a second time, and it finally started its acquiring phase...but it was sloooooow. Signal strength to 119 and 110 was green, but still took forever. Now it takes an extra second and a half to change channels. Seems like a big pain in the ass for the ability to rent movies that are way more expensive than NetFlix or the local chain. I'm not likin' it so far 

Hope you guys have better luck!


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## James Long

You might want to pull the satellite cable off of the back of the unit, do a switch check (finding nothing) then reconnect the cable and do another check switch. Sometimes that seems to clear the bats out of the belfrey.


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## Beardedbosn

3.09 loaded on our 510 overnight yesterday 6/7 so far no problems


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## skip

Well, here it is 6/9 and I still have 3.08 and the problems that go with it.

Is anyone else still waiting for 3.09? 

I have always wondered how the upgrade process actually works. How do they spool it out over time? Do they actually hit the individual receivers by ID?

>>Skip


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## AllieVi

skip said:


> Well, here it is 6/9 and I still have 3.08 and the problems that go with it.
> 
> Is anyone else still waiting for 3.09?
> 
> I have always wondered how the upgrade process actually works. How do they spool it out over time? Do they actually hit the individual receivers by ID?
> 
> >>Skip


Just a thought...

Your receiver must be "off" (i.e., in _standby_) for the upgrade to occur.


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## skip

AllieVi....
My 508 is off most of the time since I added in a 622, which is working out OK.
I was getting concerned because I see a lot of people have already received the update starting back on the 6th. I guess I will just wait a little longer. 
Thanks
>>Skip


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## scooper

I've got 3.09, but apparently no "VOD" movies yet - everything is saying "Not available yet."


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## bill_mcgonigle

Before I take the upgrade, does anybody see a perference to turn off VOD? I own my 508, not lease it, and I don't want to put extra wear and tear on my hard drive, pay for the electricity to record VOD or have the extra hard drive noise in my living room.


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## Frostwolf

bill_mcgonigle said:


> Before I take the upgrade, does anybody see a perference to turn off VOD? I own my 508, not lease it, and I don't want to put extra wear and tear on my hard drive, pay for the electricity to record VOD or have the extra hard drive noise in my living room.


Definately more activity going on with this VOD release. I'll try and look for a way to turn it off, But I doubt there is.


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## n0qcu

bill_mcgonigle said:


> , does anybody see a perference to turn off VOD?


You can't turn off VOD. They couldn't make any money if you could turn it off.


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## bill_mcgonigle

n0qcu said:


> You can't turn off VOD. They couldn't make any money if you could turn it off.


Pfft. I have no problem with them cooking up whatever hairbrained schemes they want to, even having them on by default is fine. But when they start appropriating my resources to do so that's stepping over the line. Cable is different - they're absorbing those costs in their data center.

IMHO, If they need more money, raise my rates. I'm really not keen on having the hard drive chattering away when I'm listening to music or doing something else (gasp!) besides watching Dish Network. I suppose I ought to write them a letter to this effect, though a customer-first perspective would obviate the need to do so. As I see it, it's like when you open QuickTime Player on a computer and get the annoying content-guide. You have to go into preferences and ask it to please not do so. Dish Network would do well to copy such long-tested examples.


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## RoyW

I have noticed one annoying aspect of P309 in that one out of my two 510 receivers harddrives no longer shuts down when the unit is turned off. I've went though all the standard trouble shooting procedures but it keeps right on spinning, maybe the next update well straighten it out.


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## P Smith

They want be sure your 510s will have the VOD movies and will love to get more dough from your pocket.


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## cdoyle

bill_mcgonigle said:


> Pfft. I have no problem with them cooking up whatever hairbrained schemes they want to, even having them on by default is fine. But when they start appropriating my resources to do so that's stepping over the line. Cable is different - they're absorbing those costs in their data center.
> 
> IMHO, If they need more money, raise my rates. I'm really not keen on having the hard drive chattering away when I'm listening to music or doing something else (gasp!) besides watching Dish Network. I suppose I ought to write them a letter to this effect, though a customer-first perspective would obviate the need to do so. As I see it, it's like when you open QuickTime Player on a computer and get the annoying content-guide. You have to go into preferences and ask it to please not do so. Dish Network would do well to copy such long-tested examples.


I hadn't even thought about the hard drive being used more because of VOD. Good way for Dish to make our older 508 drives to wear out, and force us to upgrade to a DVR fee model...


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## MDRNHL

James Long said:


> You might want to pull the satellite cable off of the back of the unit, do a switch check (finding nothing) then reconnect the cable and do another check switch. Sometimes that seems to clear the bats out of the belfrey.


Thanks James! I'll give that a shot. At least the blackscreen with channel banner problem seems to be gone for now.

Unfortunately, also gone is the peaceful quiet of my living room when the TV is off....now I get to hear the whirrin' & clickin':nono2:


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## Chris Blount

Got the upgrade on my 508 on Friday. Don't see any problems yet.


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## scooper

If you're hearing the whirring / clicking - you sit entirely too close to your TV/DVR. It's not an issue in my house, and that's where we spend most of our time...(when at home watching TV)


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## klang

Got the upgrade on my 510 sometime last week. I noticed yesterday that 30 something hours of recordings have vanished. Most of it was no big deal but I lost the last two episodes of the Soprano's I hadn't gotten around to watching.  

I tried a soft re-boot just for the heck of it but the only thing there is the VOD teaser they sent out.


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## bnewt

MDRNHL said:


> Thanks James! I'll give that a shot. At least the blackscreen with channel banner problem seems to be gone for now.
> 
> Unfortunately, also gone is the peaceful quiet of my living room when the TV is off....now I get to hear the whirrin' & clickin':nono2:


If you can hear it.................send it back & get a new one. It took me 3 tries to get a quiet 508. I have mine in a cabinet with the rest of my equipment & still heard it 15' away. If you are not satisfied with the unit, send it back, don't be unhappy with it.


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## MDRNHL

scooper said:


> If you're hearing the whirring / clicking - you sit entirely too close to your TV/DVR. It's not an issue in my house, and that's where we spend most of our time...(when at home watching TV)


Hrm, well the couch is 10-ish feet away...I don't really consider that 'too close'.

I don't think the HDD in it is faulty or louder than a normal HDD, but in my quiet room, its definitely noticable, and kind of annoying. When I turn the thing off, I'd prefer it to spin down until the dead of night when it picks up its program guide or whatever updating it needs to do.


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## RoyW

Since I have two 510 receivers its easy to compare one that appears to be handling P309 properly with one that isn't. The first unit to have received P309 has managed to download the four VOD movies and they are avalible to rent. Its harddrive shuts down when you shut the unit off after a couple minutes of cool down time. The second unit however has only managed to download one out of the four movies over the last several days in spite of it having been shut down for 12 to 14 hour periods per day. When its turned off the hardrive spins down after its intial cooling off period and then a couple minutes later spins right back up, it never attempts to shut down again. The noise isn't a factor however it obviously has an operational problem since receiving P309.


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## MDRNHL

RoyW said:


> Since I have two 510 receivers its easy to compare one that appears to be handling P309 properly with one that isn't. The first unit to have received P309 has managed to download the four VOD movies and they are avalible to rent. Its harddrive shuts down when you shut the unit off after a couple minutes of cool down time. The second unit however has only managed to download one out of the four movies over the last several days in spite of it having been shut down for 12 to 14 hour periods per day. When its turned off the hardrive spins down after its intial cooling off period and then a couple minutes later spins right back up, it never attempts to shut down again. The noise isn't a factor however it obviously has an operational problem since receiving P309.


That's interesting...sounds like mine is behaving like your second one is. 2 days after the patch, I still only had 1 movie available to watch. I really didn't know if that was 'normal' or not, and didnt care much because I had no plans to purchase them. I haven't looked since then to see if the others are available yet.
Just FWIW, my 510 sits off from 11pm until about 6pm the following day.


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## toomuchtv

Today I have a couple new movies showing w/ NONE of them available. Some feature!....lol

[ Oops!...The choices are NOT new - sorry...it's just that NONE of them are available. Two of them were available yesterday.] Sorry for the erroneous info - getting old.


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## Frostwolf

RoyW said:


> Since I have two 510 receivers its easy to compare one that appears to be handling P309 properly with one that isn't. The first unit to have received P309 has managed to download the four VOD movies and they are avalible to rent. Its harddrive shuts down when you shut the unit off after a couple minutes of cool down time. The second unit however has only managed to download one out of the four movies over the last several days in spite of it having been shut down for 12 to 14 hour periods per day. When its turned off the hardrive spins down after its intial cooling off period and then a couple minutes later spins right back up, it never attempts to shut down again. The noise isn't a factor however it obviously has an operational problem since receiving P309.


Both 508's have have are just like yours, the living room has all four movies, and the bedroom one has only 1 downloaded. Both have 309 update. I'm not sure its a problem just that the bedroom one is used more than the living room one. And maybe the timing is different for each movie.


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## scooper

Honestly - if they REALLY want me to use this feature (and not PPV) - you need to have the movie ON my DVR before it shows up on the banner page. I see no point to the "Coming Soon" BS...


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## RoyW

I have one more annoying trait with both my 510 receivers in that occasionally when I click a program off the guide to set it up to record the receiver reverts back to the regular live channel. Its frustrating if I'm several days into the guide and then have to find the program I want to set up to record again. I've had this happen several times in a roll and have ended up doing a hard reboot each time which seems to alleviate the problem at least temporarily.


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## David248

RoyW said:


> I have one more annoying trait with both my 510 receivers in that occasionally when I click a program off the guide to set it up to record the receiver reverts back to the regular live channel. Its frustrating if I'm several days into the guide and then have to find the program I want to set up to record again. I've had this happen several times in a roll and have ended up doing a hard reboot each time which seems to alleviate the problem at least temporarily.


I have noticed this same behavior on my 508 for quite awhile now. This seems to be one of those bugs Dish Network isn't going to fix.


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## manicd

RoyW said:


> I have one more annoying trait with both my 510 receivers in that occasionally when I click a program off the guide to set it up to record the receiver reverts back to the regular live channel. Its frustrating if I'm several days into the guide and then have to find the program I want to set up to record again. I've had this happen several times in a roll and have ended up doing a hard reboot each time which seems to alleviate the problem at least temporarily.


Boy, I have had that happening to both of my 501s and 510 now for, let's see now, 2 to 3 years? But, I havn't had to do a reboot to correct it. Just retry and the second time it would set up.

What is bad, and happening just as long, is if you are recording something and try to set up a timer, the box locks up and you have to do a reboot and mess up what you where recording.


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## Chris Blount

Well crap. I've had my 508 for over 2 years and it's been running perfectly. A couple days after I received P3.09, the hard drive crashed! Sure, it could have been that the hard drive was on its way out anyway but something smells fishy especially since the unit showed no signs of trouble before the upgrade.

The good news is that DISH is replacing it for free (plus the $14.95 shipping fee). Kind of surprising since I don't have the warranty plan on my account.


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## MDRNHL

Chris Blount said:


> The good news is that DISH is replacing it for free (plus the $14.95 shipping fee). Kind of surprising since I don't have the warranty plan on my account.


That's good to hear, Chris! I wonder if they are expecting some failures and planning accordingly.


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## RoyW

Although my now continuously running harddrive 510 receiver is still under warranty I'm somewhat reluctant to attempt to get it replaced. I have been keeping an eye on it though and the only time the harddrive stops completely is a couple minutes after its shut down and them only for a minute or so before spinning right back up. The small amount of extra electricity its now using probably doesn't amount to much but there is an irritation factor to consider since it ran fine before P309.


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## Chris Blount

MDRNHL said:


> That's good to hear, Chris! I wonder if they are expecting some failures and planning accordingly.


Don't know, but it was cool. Actually looking at my records, I've had that 508 for 3 years. I've been recording every Charlie Chat and Tech Chat since March of 2004 and storing them on the hard drive. They are all gone now. Oh well.


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## RoyW

Since I had a little spare time on my hands this AM I went ahead and called Dish Tech Support and reported the harddrive bug I picked up. I told the rep. I wasn't interested in replacing the afflicted 510 as long as it continued to record satisfactorily but that P3.09 was causing problems that required passing along to the engineers for an additional look and some further thought.


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## jumpyg2

scooper said:


> Honestly - if they REALLY want me to use this feature (and not PPV) - you need to have the movie ON my DVR before it shows up on the banner page. I see no point to the "Coming Soon" BS...


There isn't anything Dish could do to make me use On-Demand or PPV. I get Blockbuster online. Three movies at a time for $17.99/month. I get about 20 movies/month for that price, not to mention two coupons for free in-store rentals. On-Demaned and PPV are a huge ripoff in comparison.


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## Geronimo

jumpyg2 said:


> There isn't anything Dish could do to make me use On-Demand or PPV. I get Blockbuster online. Three movies at a time for $17.99/month. I get about 20 movies/month for that price, not to mention two coupons for free in-store rentals. On-Demaned and PPV are a huge ripoff in comparison.


Isn't it nice that we have so many choices.


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## catnap1972

My 510 must really be hosed--NONE of the VOD movies are available (despite it being shut down/off/standby overnights)

If it's something that keeps it from ever downloading them, I have no problem with it.  :lol:


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## toomuchtv

catnap1972 said:


> My 510 must really be hosed--NONE of the VOD movies are available (despite it being shut down/off/standby overnights)
> 
> If it's something that keeps it from ever downloading them, I have no problem with it.  :lol:


Mine too! I didn't plan to use it anyway so it doesn't matter. I still wonder why two were available for a few days but now aren't.


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## KernelPanic

harsh said:


> Because they decided after the introduction of the 501 and 508 that they were going to start charging for the feature. This is, first and foremost, a technique of bringing in more money but it is also a recognition that cable is doing the same thing.


Man that is crap! I had no idea that I was paying the fee with my 510 and 508 and 501 users were not. It is good for them but sucks for me I guess.

I have got to say though, I recently rented an apartment about 1 1/2 hours away from my home for a new job so I will be staying there for the week and coming home on the weekend. At my house I have a 622 dual tuner dvr and my 510 in the basement. I have always thought that both of the boxes were ok but nothing special. In my new apartment I could not have a dish so I got Comcast's DVR box and it completely sucks compared to dish networks boxes. The performance, HDD space, operating environemnt and remote all fail in comparison. It is funny, I did not realise what I had until I was forced to see what else is out there. Oh and the Comcast DVR I got is also a dual tuner but it still only supports a single room. There is no way for it to be used on two seperate TV's in two seperate rooms. And there is no 30 second skip on the remote at all. Luckily I dug around on the net and found a way to program it into the remote and assign that function to an unsued button.


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## kb7oeb

I bought my 508 because Dish advertised it as a fee free DVR. I would not have bought it if it had a fee. Tacking a fee on now would amount to false advertising.


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