# LCC



## sstv (Jul 30, 2006)

Hi All, anything new on LCC?
SSTV


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

soon


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## msglsmo (Dec 27, 2015)

P Smith said:


> soon


That's the story of everything with AT&T DirecTV: "soon"


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## sstv (Jul 30, 2006)

Hi All
It looks like the LCC is ready to go from all the info that's around. I cant find anything about hookups. Everything shows the hook up for one recvr. I have a 54,24 and a mini. The Mini gets OTA from the 54 but how does the 24 get OTA. It looks like a swap out, Mini for the 24. Each Mini takes a tuner from the 54, so tuners are getting thin on the 54. Maybe a LCC on the 24 would help a lot but I don't think that would work, 44/54 only. I think I will call Tech Support today for any info
SSTV


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## codespy (Mar 30, 2006)

I have a couple AM22’s I’ll be putting on eBay soon, which work on your 24. Two of them are brand new in box. If it was me, I wouldn’t swap a 24 for a mini for many reasons, which have been discussed already on this site....


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## sstv (Jul 30, 2006)

codespy said:


> I have a couple AM22's I'll be putting on eBay soon, which work on your 24. Two of them are brand new in box. If it was me, I wouldn't swap a 24 for a mini for many reasons, which have been discussed already on this site....


I sold my AM21. I had two like new.
SSTV


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## sstv (Jul 30, 2006)

codespy said:


> I have a couple AM22's I'll be putting on eBay soon, which work on your 24. Two of them are brand new in box. If it was me, I wouldn't swap a 24 for a mini for many reasons, which have been discussed already on this site....


I replaced a mini with a 24 for just those reasons you mentioned . When DTV stops support for the AM21/22, somebody will be out in the cold so sell now.
sstv


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## yosoyellobo (Nov 1, 2006)

What is LCC?


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## sstv (Jul 30, 2006)

yosoyellobo said:


> What is LCC?


"local channel connector" this replaces the AM21
sstv


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Some good news I hope for all the OTA fans from DirecTV


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Local Channel Connector $10 /month Credit


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Some good news I hope for all the OTA fans from DirecTV


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

OTA Channel Guide Issues


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

DIRECTV Local Channel Connector


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## sstv (Jul 30, 2006)

Hi All
I think I have the LCC figured out. The hook up is no big deal, If you have more then one tv, and you want all tv's to have LCC then all tv's must have a Mini providing programing. The Mini's are streamed from the HR54 which is where the LCC is located. The LCC has two tuners which might be a problem for recording and watching locals. My system has a HR54, a HR24 and a Mini. I know the Mini and the HR54 work together that leaves the HR24 out of the loop. If the system has LCC and the HR24 is out of the loop, does the HR24 still have the SAt. locals ? The Hr24 could handle any recording problems the LCC has if it has Sat. locals. I think long term, the Sat. locals are going away and LCC will be the only locals available.
SSTV


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

sstv said:


> I think long term, the Sat. locals are going away and LCC will be the only locals available.


Not gonna happen. There's too many areas where OTA reception isn't possible without a giant deep fringe outdoor antenna, and in some cases because of terrain, a tower, and in extreme cases not available at all. Especially in one of the two pilot markets, Salt Lake City, the DMA is the entire state, even though the main stations originate in the northwest corner of the state, so only portions of the rest of the state are served by scattered low power translators.

As for the original question, check the numerous existing LCC threads P Smith posted, you'll find all the available information about the LCC there, if there's actually anything new it will probably be posted in one of those existing threads. And no, calling a tech will NOT get you one unless you live in one of the two pilot markets Salt Lake City and Las Vegas, their system will not let them place an order for it outside of those two markets. Attempting to convince a tech or CSR otherwise has resulted in a bunch of confusion/misinformation and them ordering wrong items like an order for an AM21 that is quickly cancelled, a power cord (which is needed to power the AM21 if you want to "connect" it to a HR44 or HR54), or as someone in another thread recently found out the hard way, a RF modulator (which is used to "connect" HD receivers to older TVs that only have an "antenna" input).

Also attempting to do "self research" with CSRs/techs is pointless since they'll start making stuff up just to get you to end the call so they can move on to a caller with an issue they can resolve instead of dealing with someone attempting to get a pre-release product outside of the pilot markets. (i.e. that same person who got the RF modulator was told that all of Salt Lake City's locals were dropped from satellite a few months ago)


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## sstv (Jul 30, 2006)

KyL416 said:


> Not gonna happen. There's too many areas where OTA reception isn't possible without a giant deep fringe outdoor antenna, and in some cases because of terrain, a tower, and in extreme cases not available at all. Especially in one of the two pilot markets, Salt Lake City, the DMA is the entire state, even though the main stations originate in the northwest corner of the state, so only portions of the rest of the state are served by scattered low power translators.
> 
> As for the original question, check the numerous existing LCC threads P Smith posted, you'll find all the available information about the LCC there, if there's actually anything new it will probably be posted in one of those existing threads. And no, calling a tech will NOT get you one unless you live in one of the two pilot markets Salt Lake City and Las Vegas, their system will not let them place an order for it outside of those two markets. Attempting to convince a tech or CSR otherwise has resulted in a bunch of confusion/misinformation and them ordering wrong items like an order for an AM21 that is quickly cancelled, a power cord (which is needed to power the AM21 if you want to "connect" it to a HR44 or HR54), or as someone in another thread recently found out the hard way, a RF modulator (which is used to "connect" HD receivers to older TVs that only have an "antenna" input).
> 
> Also attempting to do "self research" with CSRs/techs is pointless since they'll start making stuff up just to get you to end the call so they can move on to a caller with an issue they can resolve instead of dealing with someone attempting to get a pre-release product outside of the pilot markets. (i.e. that same person who got the RF modulator was told that all of Salt Lake City's locals were dropped from satellite a few months ago)


If you live in a area where OTA is not possible, that's your problem. DTV is not in the "local" business but will provide locals for a for a fee to cover their cost to obtain locals, the rest of us will get locals free. My post was to clear up some of the confusion of what and how is needed for a multi tv family.
SSTV


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## reubenray (Jun 27, 2002)

With the new LCC are you limited with how many OTA channels that can be recorded at the same time?


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## compnurd (Apr 23, 2007)

reubenray said:


> With the new LCC are you limited with how many OTA channels that can be recorded at the same time?


2


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## reubenray (Jun 27, 2002)

compnurd said:


> 2


Thanks - if or when I am offered this option I will decline. At times I am recording 3 or 4 OTA shows at the same time.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

reubenray said:


> Thanks - if or when I am offered this option I will decline. At times I am recording 3 or 4 OTA shows at the same time.


just use two LCC modules ;/0


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

sstv said:


> If you live in a area where OTA is not possible, that's your problem. DTV is not in the "local" business but will provide locals for a for a fee to cover their cost to obtain locals, the rest of us will get locals free. My post was to clear up some of the confusion of what and how is needed for a multi tv family.
> SSTV


Directv mostly certainly IS in the "local" business, they aren't going to shut that down and lose half their customers just because they introduced a product that lets you receive stuff OTA. If you believe so, please explain why did they have locals when they had the AM21 all those years? The LCC won't provide any additional capability the AM21 didn't, it is just smaller, so they could dropped locals then and told people to get the AM21.


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## sstv (Jul 30, 2006)

slice1900 said:


> Directv mostly certainly IS in the "local" business, they aren't going to shut that down and lose half their customers just because they introduced a product that lets you receive stuff OTA. If you believe so, please explain why did they have locals when they had the AM21 all those years? The LCC won't provide any additional capability the AM21 didn't, it is just smaller, so they could dropped locals then and told people to get the AM21.


carriage fees have become excessive,LCC removes that problem. The AM21 became a piece of junk when the ability to scan for locals was removed. The LCC gets everything that's available with no DTV input. The 2 tuner thing is why you need a HR24.
SSTV


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

sstv said:


> The AM21 became a piece of junk when the ability to scan for locals was removed.


I take it you haven't got the latest firmware for your Genie that's been rolling out nightly then... The ability to scan isn't LCC specific as OTA scanning has returned for AM21s connected to a HR44/HR54. They also started to expand the OTA database on a market by market basis which will help those with Hx2x's.

You also might want to take a look at the support page that was linked back in August in one of the thread's P Smith posted, the LCC also only has 2 tuners and it says HR44/HR54 only, and unless they're using chipsets that have long been out of production so it uses the same kernel modules and firmware blobs as the AM21, or they decided to include the kernel drivers and firmware blobs for the chipsets used by the LCC in a firmware update, it's not going to work on the Hx2x's. And unless they reintroduce scanning support to the Hx2x's, it will also be limited to stations in the OTA database.


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## reubenray (Jun 27, 2002)

I pulled my AM21 yesterday from the RV and it still scans fine. The new LCC would work great for me on trips in the RV due to its size. I would think the LCC would also pull in stronger signals also. Even though my AM21 still works it is getting old and the signals strengths are not as good as it used to be. One big issue for me with the AM21 is it is to big for the entertainment center in the motorhome. I have to sit it on my steering wheel which is directly below the entertainment center.

The concern of it only pulling in two channels will not be a big deal while using it in the motorhome. My HR24 that I take with me will only record two shows at a time anyway.


But will I be able to get the LCC and still keep my locals when they it is offered in my area.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

reubenray said:


> But will I be able to get the LCC and still keep my locals when they it is offered in my area.


Obviously we can't know 100% for certain until everything is made public, but I'd be shocked if they do. I could see them giving you a choice like "get the LCC free and $10 off per month for dropping locals" or "pay $50 for the LCC, keep your locals and get no discount".

But I'm curious, if you had it why would you want to keep your satellite locals, especially if they offered you a discount? Are some of your satellite delivered locals impossible for you to reliably pick up OTA?


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

Check the LCC support page and some of his posts in the other threads. He likes the ability to record more than 2 locals at once. There's also a bunch of other limitations if you opt for LCC only:


> You won't be able to:
> Watch On Demand content.


So you won't have access to CBS, NBC, ABC, Fox and CW On demand 


> Record local channels using Mobile DVR on the DIRECTV App.


So locals won't be available for in and out of home streaming via mobile DVR and you won't be able to set remote recordings on local channels since the guide on the DirecTV app only displays satellite channels.


> Watch local channels on directv.com, online, or on local channel apps.


And you won't have access to the TV Everywhere platforms for the networks like Fox Now, Watch ABC and NBC Live or be able to stream your locals on DirecTV's website and app if you're in a market that has locals available for streaming. You also won't be able to stream Fox and NBC games on Fox Sports Go and NBC Sports Live since those apps check for subscriptions to the individual channels. (ABC's games on the otherhand are lumped with ESPN3 on WatchESPN, so you won't lose their games)


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

There's no technical reason they could make the software support using more than one LCC at a time, connected via a USB hub. There's no way they'd do it for the AM21's intended market of people who want to watch subchannels Directv doesn't deliver.

If Directv markets the LCC as a way for people to drop satellite locals and save money, I think it is a possibility - there are some people who will want to watch/record three network programs at once, or college football Saturdays when there are always three (ABC, CBS, Fox) and sometimes four (NBC for home Notre Dame) games on broadcast TV at once. Probably not a high possibility, but not quite a "there's no way they'd consider it" thing.


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## reubenray (Jun 27, 2002)

My concern for the LCC is will it work with the HR24. If not it would just be another reason to switch to Dish. When traveling in my motorhome the ability to watch and record the locals in the area I am in is very important.


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

All available information about the LCC on the support page says it's HR44/HR54. Plus as mentioned earlier, the chipsets used by the AM21 have long been out of production, meaning the LCC won't be using the same kernel modules and firmware blobs.

To sum it up for those who don't know how hardware interacts with kernels. Tuners aren't one generic thing like a USB keyboard or mouse, the chipsets in them for their tuner, demodulator and usb interface require specifc kernel modules and firmware blobs in the OS to work. And even if they use the same manufacturer it won't matter, i.e. Hauppauge's 950, 950Q and 955Q all require different kernel modules for their chipsets. On Desktop distributions this isn't a problem since they come with nearly every available module so most hardware can work out of the box, but in settops they set the flags at compilation time to only include the modules they need to support to save space.

Anyone who is claiming the LCC will be supported on the Hx2x via a firmware update is just speculating, none of the official information about the LCC says the Hx2x will be supported. If OTA is a must for your Hx2x, you'll need to get your hand on an AM21. For the majority of people the LCC won't be an improvement reception wise anyway, unless you are in an area with multipath problems that newer generation tuners handle better. And contrary to what was suggested earlier in this thread, the reintroduction of scanning is NOT LCC specific. The scanning process is handled by the receiver, and that was done via a firmware update for the HR44 and HR54 that is currently rolling out nightly that also allowed AM21's connected to those Genie models to scan once again.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

reubenray said:


> My concern for the LCC is will it work with the HR24. If not it would just be another reason to switch to Dish. When traveling in my motorhome the ability to watch and record the locals in the area I am in is very important.


You keep asking questions about the LCC for which no one has any definite answer. The only way to get a guaranteed answer to your questions is to wait for it to be released, and then the answers will be available either from Directv or from others who have them. If you can't wait that long, the AM21 is your only option.


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

Agree wait for release for info
Any word on a release date yet? Does Directv have a booth and CES next week or do press releases there ever? Anyone going to CES?


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## DirectMan (Jul 15, 2007)

scottchez said:


> Agree wait for release for info
> Any word on a release date yet? Does Directv have a booth and CES next week or do press releases there ever? Anyone going to CES?


I see that AT&T business has a booth but no mention of D*. It is possible that they will show a receiver or so and I will check it out and take pic if allowed.


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## compnurd (Apr 23, 2007)

DirectMan said:


> I see that AT&T business has a booth but no mention of D*. It is possible that they will show a receiver or so and I will check it out and take pic if allowed.


It I had to guess the only thing they will be showing off is the C71K


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

DirectMan said:


> I see that AT&T business has a booth but no mention of D*. It is possible that they will show a receiver or so and I will check it out and take pic if allowed.


"AT&T business" is probably marketing corporate cellular packages and connectivity. Doesn't sound like a booth likely to have anything Directv, let alone a C71KW.


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## ghostdog (Jul 6, 2007)

slice1900 said:


> Obviously we can't know 100% for certain until everything is made public, but I'd be shocked if they do. I could see them giving you a choice like "get the LCC free and $10 off per month for dropping locals" or "pay $50 for the LCC, keep your locals and get no discount".
> 
> But I'm curious, if you had it why would you want to keep your satellite locals, especially if they offered you a discount? Are some of your satellite delivered locals impossible for you to reliably pick up OTA?


That's my issue. CBS is out of any antenna range.....,


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## studechip (Apr 16, 2012)

reubenray said:


> Thanks - if or when I am offered this option I will decline. At times I am recording 3 or 4 OTA shows at the same time.


On your dvr? How?


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## RoyGBiv (Jul 24, 2007)

studechip said:


> On your dvr? How?


I presume the same way I am. I have an AM21 attached to my HR44 and another attached to my HR24. I often record 3 OTA programs and occasional 4 at one time. Because I doubt D* will get its act together with the new LCC and in the future my ability to record mult OTA shows will be restricted, I just got a very good deal on a TIVO Roamio OTA.

SMK


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## studechip (Apr 16, 2012)

RoyGBiv said:


> I presume the same way I am. I have an AM21 attached to my HR44 and another attached to my HR24. I often record 3 OTA programs and occasional 4 at one time. Because I doubt D* will get its act together with the new LCC and in the future my ability to record mult OTA shows will be restricted, I just got a very good deal on a TIVO Roamio OTA.
> 
> SMK


The AM21 has two tuners. You can't record more than two ota programs at a time from one AM21. You may have more than one AM21, but reubenray never said he had more than one. If he does, he should have said so to eliminate any confusion.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

I don't recall where I got the pictures &#8230; someone did open dish OTA ? or it's just general Hauppauge dongle ...


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## Jodean (Jul 17, 2010)

anyone get the lcc yet? getting mine today


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Jodean said:


> anyone get the lcc yet? getting mine today


More than a few people here have talked Directv instead of sending them an "LCC", but the order ends up canceled, or they get a power cord for the AM21 or something like that. Willing to bet that ends up being true for you too, unless you live in one of the two test markets.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

slice1900 said:


> unless you live in one of the two test markets.


Agree.


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## Michael H.. (May 31, 2007)

slice1900 said:


> ... "get the LCC free and $10 off per month for dropping locals" or "pay $50 for the LCC, keep your locals and get no discount".
> 
> But I'm curious, if you had it why would you want to keep your satellite locals, especially if they offered you a discount? Are some of your satellite delivered locals impossible for you to reliably pick up OTA?


As a continuous subscriber since 1994 who has NEVER had LIL, the price for the Premiere package I have, has been and will continue to be discounted by only $3 per month (more than offset by the $20 extra I spend for E&W HD DNS). I find it interesting that the $10 per month discount being offered in the LCC test markets is structured such that the package is discounted by the same $3 per month and the additional $7 per month is made up by crediting one of the "receiver" charges. This looks like the discount is set up to enable ATT to eliminate the additional $7 per month discount, reverting to the existing "No Locals" pricing at their discretion. For those in the test markets who have opted for the LCC and "No Locals" is there any language in your contract that confirms removal of the additional $7 per month after a specified time?


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

We have the legal terms at the very bottom small print here, not sure this answers your question. These were handed out at stores where the beta test was.


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## Jodean (Jul 17, 2010)

My neighbor has his installed and working. Its for real, we didnt have fox kttw here during the playoffs, trust me, we are a test area.


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## Jodean (Jul 17, 2010)

Michael H.. said:


> As a continuous subscriber since 1994 who has NEVER had LIL, the price for the Premiere package I have, has been and will continue to be discounted by only $3 per month (more than offset by the $20 extra I spend for E&W HD DNS). I find it interesting that the $10 per month discount being offered in the LCC test markets is structured such that the package is discounted by the same $3 per month and the additional $7 per month is made up by crediting one of the "receiver" charges. This looks like the discount is set up to enable ATT to eliminate the additional $7 per month discount, reverting to the existing "No Locals" pricing at their discretion. For those in the test markets who have opted for the LCC and "No Locals" is there any language in your contract that confirms removal of the additional $7 per month after a specified time?


I did this years ago with dish, when i cancelled the local channels, it removed the info from the guide and it turned into 6 hours blocks without description, you could record, but 6 hours blocks at a time. Still same way on several channles using the hopper 3 and ota usb dongle. it was nice though, back in the day 722 could record 3, industry leader for that, then 722k could do 4 (2 sat 2 ota)

I almost assume this would happen on directv also.


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## Jodean (Jul 17, 2010)

I also went and bought a air tv dvr, made by sling and dish. hooked it up, not very clear streaming to my 75" and somehow it does pick up our 7.1 fox kttw, but its not in the guide......hmm.....just 7.2 and 7.3 non HD bullcrap channels.


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

Jodean said:


> I almost assume this would happen on directv also.


You would assume wrong. That's not how DirecTV's OTA guide data works at all. For the most part on Dish they remap the LIL guide to the primary OTA channels, with the side effect being that when there's a dispute the OTA guide disappears too, unless they redo it like they do for some longer disputes. While on DirecTV they're essentially seperate entries independent of the LIL listings.

You might want to familarlize yourself with the transponder maps in this thread:
Transponder Maps: Domestic, Mexico, Latin ~ Data 01/23/2019


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## Jodean (Jul 17, 2010)

KyL416 said:


> You would assume wrong. That's not how DirecTV's OTA guide data works at all. They're essentially seperate channels that have no real ties to the LIL channels, you might want to familarlize yourself with the transponder maps in this thread:
> Transponder Maps: Domestic, Mexico, Latin ~ Data 01/23/2019


and you know this because you have an account without locals and have it working??


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## Jodean (Jul 17, 2010)

KyL416 said:


> You would assume wrong. That's not how DirecTV's OTA guide data works at all. For the most part on Dish they remap the LIL guide to the primary OTA channels, with the side effect being that when there's a dispute the OTA guide disappears too, unless they redo it like they do for some longer disputes. While on DirecTV they're essentially seperate entries independent of the LIL listings.
> 
> You might want to familarlize yourself with the transponder maps in this thread:
> Transponder Maps: Domestic, Mexico, Latin ~ Data 01/23/2019


oh now you changed your post, i can assure YOU that is not how it works on dish, theres no dispute on locals right now, and the guide is still 6 hour blocks without info.

I dont see how transponder maps have anything to do with local sub channels info for channels not even on the directv system.


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

Jodean said:


> and you know this because you have an account without locals and have it working??


No, I know this because I work with the Data Digesters team that grabs the raw guide data directly from DirecTV's atellites and how this data is organized. The OTA data is a seperate thing that has nothing to do with whether you get LIL service or not.

And yes, for a while I had an account with no locals because of LOS issues with 119. I had no problem getting guide data for OTA channels.



Jodean said:


> i can assure YOU that is not how it works on dish, theres no dispute on locals right now, and the guide is still 6 hour blocks without info


There's numerous reasons why that can happen with the way Dish handles the mapping of their OTA data involving TSIDs and other things. You might want to some of the posts made in the past few months in the OTA issues thread in the Dish forum, it might be related to that. You can also check the list James has on his website.


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## Jodean (Jul 17, 2010)

KyL416 said:


> There's numerous reasons why that happens with the way Dish handles the mapping of their OTA data involving TSIDs and other things. You might want to check the OTA issues thread in the Dish forum, it might be related to that. You can also check the list James has on his website.


ok so dont post stuff you dont know about then.


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

Jodean said:


> ok so dont post stuff you dont know about then.


Are you just wanting to start an argument for the sake of having one? I am one of the more knowledgable members of this board and have helped a lot in diagnosing issues with both Dish and DirecTV's OTA data. Go check out the thread I mentioned in the Dish forum if you want proof of what I "know" about.


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## Jodean (Jul 17, 2010)

nope not here to argue, but you told me that dish has the info there and might lose the info during a dispute while im staring at a 6 hour block with no disputes currently going on.


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

Directv for sure has a separate OTA guide data entry so if locals are shut off it still works. The Spreadsheet does not lie.

Dish Network Combines the OTA in with the Sat Guide data, UNLESS, key word, Unless there is a major dispute, then they break them off.
In fact looking at the Dish tables they just brought back the broken off OTA guide data as a dispute is now over. Their data entries do not lie either at that other site.
It is also known that DIsh is missing a lot more OTA guide data than Directv as they have been adding more and more every week or so. Dish has not added much TA data in 3 years. Maybe your channel in question is just missing?

Now lets get back to talking about what we all want, which is screen shots of a working LCC please on the HR 54 and for what I need the HS17 please.
We should set up reward or something for the first person to post a working system with device IDs on the summary screen showing the LCC


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

Jodean said:


> nope not here to argue, but you told me that dish has the info there and might lose the info during a dispute while im staring at a 6 hour block with no disputes currently going on.


That's just one of the reasons why you can get an issue on Dish where a primary station has no guide data. There's a bunch of other possible reasons involving incorrect TSIDs, bad major-minor mappings, and other things that can cause issues like that. (Not to mention numerous lingering issues as a result of them dumping Gracenote/TMS for TiVO/Rovi as their guide data supplier and having to essentially manually retrofit Rovi's data into the format used by TMS)

I don't want to drag this topic OT and confuse people looking for DirecTV/LCC information by continuing a back and forth involving Dish specific things, so if you actually want help finding the cause of this issue, myself and others can help you in the Dish OTA issues thread.


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## Jodean (Jul 17, 2010)

most of it pry has to do with fox is 7.1 7.2 7.3 and on directv and dish its 17


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## Jodean (Jul 17, 2010)

MysteryMan said:


> Agree.


her ya go ya haters! LOL

just got it....was overnighted fedex


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## 242424 (Mar 22, 2012)

Cool! Come back and say how it's working for you?


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## Jodean (Jul 17, 2010)

i really wish i had this, its an hour and half away, i ordered another one in town here for tomorow. Supposed to be fedex overnight as well. Gonna plug it in my HS17 and see what happens. Stay tuned!

ok so i got 5 of them ordered so far!! Just the one took 4 and a half hours, other phone calls were like 5 minutes


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## cpalmer2k (May 24, 2010)

Jodean said:


> i really wish i had this, its an hour and half away, i ordered another one in town here for tomorow. Supposed to be fedex overnight as well. Gonna plug it in my HS17 and see what happens. Stay tuned!
> 
> ok so i got 5 of them ordered so far!! Just the one took 4 and a half hours, other phone calls were like 5 minutes


If it doesn't work eBay them lol!


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Jodean said:


> i really wish i had this, its an hour and half away, i ordered another one in town here for tomorow. Supposed to be fedex overnight as well. Gonna plug it in my HS17 and see what happens. Stay tuned!
> 
> ok so i got 5 of them ordered so far!! Just the one took 4 and a half hours, other phone calls were like 5 minutes


If you wouldn't mind, could you hook it up to a PC and see what it identifies itself as on the USB bus? Probably the easiest way to do so is to use this tool:

USBView - Windows drivers


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

Jodean said:


> i really wish i had this, its an hour and half away, i ordered another one in town here for tomorow. Supposed to be fedex overnight as well. Gonna plug it in my HS17 and see what happens. Stay tuned!
> 
> ok so i got 5 of them ordered so far!! Just the one took 4 and a half hours, other phone calls were like 5 minutes


And what market are you located in? My AM21 died recently and I've been waiting for the LCC.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

slice1900 said:


> If you wouldn't mind, could you hook it up to a PC and see what it identifies itself as on the USB bus? Probably the easiest way to do so is to use this tool:
> 
> USBView - Windows drivers


And eventually when you have the time, to one of those HR24s you mentioned on another thread you've got stockpiled there to see if it works on the older IRDs 

Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk


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## Jodean (Jul 17, 2010)

Ok guys! hold tight. Should have one in hand tomorrow.

You can only get one if your missing a local station where your at, was told here 57106, new mexico and arizona, but 57106 for sure.

Will try all recievers and see what happens, i have hs17 and hr44 here, pry could activate a hr24 like you said, might try unactivated see what happens also LOL

Might even compare the AM21 i have sitting here as well.

The new software is on the genie2 that i have about 4 months ago, I was at a house with hr54 that updated yesterday, deleted all his recordings though.....hes pretty hot about that yet, and it removed pandora.


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

I feel I should like pay you money for posting this as a finders reward or something. Big thank you.
You should do one of those First look docs and put it in a word doc or PDF with your name on it, you will make a sticky, plus those on NDAs (and cant talk yet) might soon get released to say something about the LCC since it is public with your doc.



Jodean said:


> her ya go ya haters! LOL
> 
> just got it....was overnighted fedex
> View attachment 29686


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## Jodean (Jul 17, 2010)

ok see this is BS!! Hooked up AM21 to an HR24

service not active, so my antenna doesnt work?? OR 775, so antenna doesnt work?? This is the stuff that bothers me!!


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## Jodean (Jul 17, 2010)

KyL416 said:


> You would assume wrong.


Ok smarty pants, directv doesnt have the info either, even with locals active. Cant hit record on these channels either, but on dish you can record the 6 hr block. These channels show continuous forever into future, timeline doesnt end.


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

Wow resulting to name calling because you thought you proved me wrong? (FYI, you didn't)

I take it you didn't bother checking the OTA tab in transponder maps then? If you did you would see that is has NOTHING to do with subscribing to locals, it's because those channels in the screenshot are NOT in the OTA database and a recent Genie firmware update reintroduced scanning support so you can tune to the OTA channels not in the datbase. 13-1 KSFYDT is in the database, 13-2 and 13-3 are not the same with KELO, only 11-1 KELODT and 11-2 KELODT2 are in the database, 11-3 and 11-4 are not.

If you're wondering why they're not in the database, that's because those missing channels all have TMS_IDs higher than 65535 (0xffff). Back in May they started an expansion on a market by market basis to get channels with TMS_IDs higher than 65535 in, but it didn't hit the Sioux Falls market yet.


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## Jodean (Jul 17, 2010)

KyL416 said:


> Wow resulting to name calling because you thought you proved me wrong? (FYI, you didn't)
> 
> I take it you didn't bother checking the OTA tab in transponder maps then? If you did you would see that is has NOTHING to do with not subscribing to locals, it's because those channels in the screenshot are NOT in the OTA database and a recent Genie firmware update reintroduced scanning support. If you're wondering why they're not in the database, that's because those channels all have TMS_IDs higher than 65535 (0xffff). They started an expansion on a market by market basis to get channels with TMS_IDs higher than 65535 in, but it didn't hit the Sioux Falls market yet.


Metv had the info a few months ago.

Im just giving people what they want to see. Not just giving behind the scenes info that doesnt matter to them. They want to know if they can record, or see whats on.

End of story is that you said it was different than dish, but to the end user its the same, no info. Dont care to look up transponders or databases. Cx doesnt care about that.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Jodean said:


> Metv had the info a few months ago.
> 
> Im just giving people what they want to see. Not just giving behind the scenes info that doesnt matter to them. They want to know if they can record, or see whats on.
> 
> End of story is that you said it was different than dish, but to the end user its the same, no info. Dont care to look up transponders or databases. Cx doesnt care about that.


To record, you can setup manual recordings on the channels that are not in DIRECTV's OTA database which show in the guide as the continuous time blocks of "Regular Schedule." ...

Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

Whether you want to believe it or not, Dish and DirecTV handle OTA data differently, I never said DirecTV has all the channels Dish doesn't, someone else said they have more, which if you would compare James's site to the OTA tab in the transponder maps you would see is true. Dish does the matching based on the TSID every ATSC station broadcasts as part of their signal and depending on the channel either remaps the LIL guide data or has a seperate dummy entry for the subchannel's guide data. DirecTV has completely independent entries and does the matching based on RF+Minor, Major-Minor or RF+Major-Minor numbering. With the current Genie firmware both Dish and DirecTV now offer scanning to get channels not in their database to appear.

If you want a more technical explanation of the TMS_ID limit, do a search for "65535", it's been explained numerous times, basically that's the decimal equivelent of 0xffff. People previously complained to CSRs about "Regular Programming" on those channels, their "fix" was to remove the ability to scan entirely from Genies. Now that AT&T decided to support OTA again with the LCC, they reintroduced support for scanning and implemented a workaround to give stations with TMS_IDs higher than that limit fake numbers using the gaps below 65535.

Whenever the expansion hits Sioux Falls, which will hopefully be sooner than later since you're now one of the markets eligible for the LCC, those channels will get guide data. But your customers will have to rerun OTA setup to get them to appear with guide data when that happens. If you want to, pay attention to the weekly transponder updates thread, the Data Digesters team posts when new OTA markets get the expansion. They post new maps on Wednesdays, but the team checks every day or so to see if there are any major changes in the interim. The last additions were back in December, but for the past month the engineers have been occupied with handling the migration of the International 95 and 119 channels to reverse band.


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## Jodean (Jul 17, 2010)

HoTat2 said:


> To record, you can setup manual recordings on the channels that are not in DIRECTV's OTA database which show in the guide as the continuous time blocks of "Regular Schedule." ...
> 
> Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk


Im currently experiencing this (taken from another thread) If it does not, and there is not a different (25.3) channel in that database, then you will have used both primary and secondary available markets, and though you will be able to view the programming schedule, you will not be able to record the program of interest.

unless i dont know how to manual record, cant find the instructions.


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## Jodean (Jul 17, 2010)

KyL416 said:


> Whether you want to believe it or not, Dish and DirecTV handle OTA data differently,


 I can agree with that, never said they dont, Just showing the cx doesnt care how it all works, just that they cant do something. Im still mad that dish removed the schedule and i had to pay for locals even though i never tuned to those channels, only used my antenna anyway. That was 10 years ago and i dont forget!! HA


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

If the Cx has a problem with "regular programming", even though it now lets them at least tune to those channels without switching inputs on their TVs, you can manually hide those channels from them under Edit Channels until the expansion hits the market.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Jodean said:


> I did this years ago with dish, when i cancelled the local channels, it removed the info from the guide and it turned into 6 hours blocks without description, you could record, but 6 hours blocks at a time.


DISH has changed it's attitude toward locals over the past few years - primarily due to disputes. I do not recall the last dispute where DISH did not move the EPG to one of the hidden "EPG Only" channels. We have also had contradictory reports where some customers say they got EPG while other customers say they don't. Spread that out over a more than a decade of DISH providing EPG for OTA received channels and "a few years ago" has less meaning.

That is not to say that the EPG is 100% perfect. My local NBC station is currently showing "DTV" in the EPG instead of the accurate guide. The subchannel on the NBC affiliate has the correct guide. The data is there for both channels. Sometimes OTA EPG works, sometimes it does not.



Jodean said:


> I almost assume this would happen on directv also.


I assume that DIRECTV has their own flaws. Recent reports have shown improvement. It is probably better to ASK (politely) what is happening than assume.

Let's keep the discussion civil.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Jodean said:


> Im currently experiencing this (taken from another thread) If it does not, and there is not a different (25.3) channel in that database, then you will have used both primary and secondary available markets, and though you will be able to view the programming schedule, you will not be able to record the program of interest.
> 
> unless i dont know how to manual record, cant find the instructions.


For the HR24 it's "Menu" ----> "Recordings" -----> "Manage Recordings" ----> "Manual Record"

For the Genie (the HR44/54 anyway)

It's "List" ----> "Manage Recordings" -----> "Manual Recording Setup"

Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

James Long said:


> ....
> 
> I assume that DIRECTV has their own flaws. Recent reports have shown improvement. It is probably better to ASK (politely) what is happening than assume.
> 
> Let's keep the discussion civil.


Yeah, the DIRECTV OTA guide system certainly has its flaws ...

A very annoying one for instance is their work-a-round method to the deal with the 65,535 TMS ID system limitation by creating "pseudo-TMS IDs" which internally map to a program's real one above 65,535.

But if the pseudo-TMS ID the DIRECTV assigns accidentally matches a real one used by another service. The guide feed may supply the guide schedule for that service instead.

This is presently happening on two of my OTA channels ...

Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk


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## Jodean (Jul 17, 2010)

HoTat2 said:


> For the HR24 it's "Menu" ----> "Recordings" -----> "Manage Recordings" ----> "Manual Record"
> 
> For the Genie (the HR44/54 anyway)
> 
> ...


oh my that menu is so ugly and large on my 75" i couldnt "see" it LOL


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

Good Discussion, very helpful.
We still love you all, 
please when you get a chance post test results and photos of a working LCC and which models it works on please.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Jodean said:


> anyone get the lcc yet? getting mine today


We are waiting for pictures - outside and inside, VID/PID values &#8230;
Please do it for LCC only - not the "rat nest" as posted before


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

If the box isn’t active, i don’t see how it’s going to work, it will need to be active. 

I doubt it will work on any hx3x or earlier. Maybe but I doubt it. But seems maybe we might find out soon.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Michael H.. said:


> As a continuous subscriber since 1994 who has NEVER had LIL, the price for the Premiere package I have, has been and will continue to be discounted by only $3 per month (more than offset by the $20 extra I spend for E&W HD DNS). I find it interesting that the $10 per month discount being offered in the LCC test markets is structured such that the package is discounted by the same $3 per month and the additional $7 per month is made up by crediting one of the "receiver" charges. This looks like the discount is set up to enable ATT to eliminate the additional $7 per month discount, reverting to the existing "No Locals" pricing at their discretion. For those in the test markets who have opted for the LCC and "No Locals" is there any language in your contract that confirms removal of the additional $7 per month after a specified time?


If you are a continuous subscriber since 1994 you're on some sort of grandfathered pricing plan. They had a $3 discount for locals for years, probably just to offer people something in exchange for not being able to get them, but even a decade ago Directv paid well under a buck a month for locals so they probably saw themselves as being pretty generous.

Today Directv and every other provider pays more like $10/month for locals, and that price looks to continue to increase. That's why you see them wanting to put together options for people to drop locals, and make it more enticing for them to do so.

They probably aren't going to offer such a discount you because they only save money if you CAN get your locals but choose not to. If they don't provide locals at all where you are, there's no money for them to save.


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## Jodean (Jul 17, 2010)

Ok so here we go. Fedex delivered about 5 of these today, i went around and collected them just now.

So this is what all comes, its in a winegaurd box model LCCIAR0-39

You do need the power adapter plugged in, it wont fire up from the usb power.

Im using the same antenna feed that my AM21 was using. I first got the messege that my LCC was disconnected when i unplugged the AM21 usb and inserted the LCC. I did not do anything, it thinks the LCC and the AM21 are the same thing. Channel 11-1 came up in about 30 seconds.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Jodean said:


> Ok so here we go. Fedex delivered about 5 of these today, i went around and collected them just now.
> 
> So this is what all comes, its in a winegaurd box model LCCIAR0-39
> 
> ...


Cool, but what particular receiver is this on?

The HS17?

Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk


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## Jodean (Jul 17, 2010)

hr44


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

Pretty sure it is not the HS17 as the last screen shot has the Picture n Picture menu PIP , pretty sure that is not an option on Genie Mini via a HS17.
Anyone see PIP on a HS17 system?

Any chance you can try the HS17, even with no antenna, we are wonder if it will show up in the summary screen or scan. We really want to know the device ID info and model shown in case the store bought ones will work also (if its the same model and ID sub string).
This happened with Dish networks version, the AirTV USB tuner also works with theirs (same string and device code).


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## DirectMan (Jul 15, 2007)

Jodean said:


> hr44


I don't know if you are a dealer or individual customer but did D* send 5 LCCs to you for free or charged you? I was going to ask my friend in Vegas (one of the test markets) to call them to see if they will send him (and me) an LCC without modifying his contract to exclude locals.


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## Jodean (Jul 17, 2010)

I cant get it to do anything on my hs17


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

Big Thank you for trying, maybe it will work in future updates, they seem to update every week or so as I see in the cutting edge forum place.

Any chance you can post a photo of the summary screen the one that shows the OTA hardware with model info please?

It sure does look a lot like the Dish OTA tuner, all square, different logo with a cable out the back, just the cable is different. Will be interesting to see the model number and device id info to see who made it


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Jodean said:


> I cant get it to do anything on my hs17


Oh wow ....

Big setback then ... 

Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk


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## Jodean (Jul 17, 2010)

DirectMan said:


> I don't know if you are a dealer or individual customer but did D* send 5 LCCs to you for free or charged you? I was going to ask my friend in Vegas (one of the test markets) to call them to see if they will send him (and me) an LCC without modifying his contract to exclude locals.


I dont think it has anything to do with excluding locals, you CAN cancel locals at any time, always been that way.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

It should be easy to open one and make pictures of both sides


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## DirectMan (Jul 15, 2007)

This is the antenna that is distributed as part of the LCC. I think it is the amplified model.

Winegard FlatWave - Best HDTV Antenna


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## DirectMan (Jul 15, 2007)

It looks like the LCC offers the option of USB or another connector to the DVR.


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## BigRedFan (Mar 28, 2010)

scottchez said:


> View attachment 29705
> Big Thank you for trying, maybe it will work in future updates, they seem to update every week or so as I see in the cutting edge forum place.
> 
> Any chance you can post a photo of the summary screen the one that shows the OTA hardware with model info please?
> ...


Can somebody try to see if the DISH OTA tuner would work (as an LCC) on a Genie receiver ? Just connect using the USB, right ?


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## codespy (Mar 30, 2006)

DirectMan said:


> It looks like the LCC offers the option of USB or another connector to the DVR.


As mentioned in the past....See diagram. This should help. Thanks for the info!

https://www.att.com/ecms/dam/att/co.../UVEP-100083172-DTV-Local-Connector-Guide.pdf


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

codespy said:


> As mentioned in the past....See diagram. This should help. Thanks for the info!
> 
> https://www.att.com/ecms/dam/att/co.../UVEP-100083172-DTV-Local-Connector-Guide.pdf


"Page not found"


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## codespy (Mar 30, 2006)

trh said:


> "Page not found"


Crap. It was working last night.....


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

codespy said:


> Crap. It was working last night.....


Is this the new URL?
https://www.att.com/ecms/dam/att/co.../UVEP-100083172-DTV-Local-Connector-Guide.pdf


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

BigRedFan said:


> Can somebody try to see if the DISH OTA tuner would work (as an LCC) on a Genie receiver ? Just connect using the USB, right ?


For the Dish Tuner it does not have its own power so you may need to plug it into a POWERED USB hub and then plug that into the GENIE, the idea is the genie does not have enough power on the USB port for the tuner , hence why they included a power supply for it.
The AIRTV dongle tuner is also the same as the dish one they say.
Worth the test if anyone has one from an old Dish install.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

scottchez said:


> Is this the new URL?
> https://www.att.com/ecms/dam/att/co.../UVEP-100083172-DTV-Local-Connector-Guide.pdf


On 2 different devices: Page Not Found.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

trh said:


> On 2 different devices: Page Not Found.


Try this:
https://www.att.com/esupport/article.html#!/directv/KM1258635?gsi=NvlMfoqY


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

We got the booklet many times already here ! There is nothing to read ! Calm down with reposting limbo.


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

Over at the cutting edge place there was a firmware update issue on the HS17, then the fix had the word Driver updated in it. they did not say what driver, but wondering if that was needed driver for the LCC. If so it could mean it is coming in the next month or so as they test and release to production.

The new path PDF is for the new URL path, it changed. Someone wanted to read it. Old one did not work anymore.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

scottchez said:


> read it


what useful info is there besides posted here ?


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Can you try it on an H2x or HR2x and see if it works?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

P Smith said:


> what useful info is there besides posted here ?


The diagram is interesting. If AT&T's website worked better the direct link would always work. In any case, I'd rather provide than complain.


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## codespy (Mar 30, 2006)

James Long said:


> The diagram is interesting. If AT&T's website worked better the direct link would always work. In any case, I'd rather provide than complain.


Thanks. That's the page I pulled up last night.


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## twiseguy (Jan 31, 2011)

I have H24 and H25 non DVR receivers. Will the LCC work with these?
Thanks guys, as usual, you always have the answers that ATT doesn't.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

twiseguy said:


> I have H24 and H25 non DVR receivers. Will the LCC work with these?
> Thanks guys, as usual, you always have the answers that ATT doesn't.


We were hoping to get Jodean to test this, at least on one of the HR24s he's got stacked up there.

But he ran into a problem where you can't test the OTA functionality unless you activate receiver with DIRECTV service.

Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

twiseguy said:


> I have H24 and H25 non DVR receivers. Will the LCC work with these?
> Thanks guys, as usual, you always have the answers that ATT doesn't.


The link I posted in post #104 shows:

*Watch local TV channels with DIRECTV*
If you took advantage of a recent over-the-air antenna offer, find out how to set up your local channel connector to watch local news, sports, and more on *HR44 and HR54 receivers.*


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## grover517 (Sep 29, 2007)

Well, just had one of our "seasonal location" stations (WXCW -46 - CW) from Ft. Myers, Florida completely removed from the channel guide after a mere week or so of showing a banner. This is a first for me. I have gone thru channel disputes before for even up to a month and the channel was never removed from the channel guide like this after just a week of having a banner displayed, so I called DirecTV to find out if it was ever coming back. I didn't bring it up but also wondered if they would even offer the LCC.

To my surprise, an LCC is being shipped overnight at no cost even though I told her that the LCC was nothing more than a temporary solution in my opinion and if offering the LCC is now the way ATT is going to deal with local channel disputes, that along with all the other issues we have had with our service since the ATT takeover, it was just "one more straw" and might even be the last in regards to me staying with DirecTV any longer. 

I had no intent either of pushing for any kind of credit or other compensation for losing one of our channels like this but she volunteered on her own to see if there were any discounts off of my Premier package she could offer and to both our surprises, there were none. I have NEVER asked for any but have been offered a few over the years simply for being a "valued DirecTV customer". So it appears my valued customer status isn't what it used to be either.


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

I wonder if the computer counted the free LCC as a promotion. After all it cost $30 to $60 plus price of anntenna 
Maybe the new ATT only allows one promotion now. 
I would call back and as for more


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## palmgrower (Jul 18, 2011)

Grover517, congratulations! I contacted them last week and they wouldn't ship me one.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

grover517 said:


> Well, just had one of our "seasonal location" stations (WXCW -46 - CW) from Ft. Myers, Florida completely removed from the channel guide after a mere week or so of showing a banner. This is a first for me. I have gone thru channel disputes before for even up to a month and the channel was never removed from the channel guide like this after just a week of having a banner displayed, so I called DirecTV to find out if it was ever coming back. I didn't bring it up but also wondered if they would even offer the LCC.
> 
> To my surprise, an LCC is being shipped overnight at no cost even though I told her that the LCC was nothing more than a temporary solution in my opinion and if offering the LCC is now the way ATT is going to deal with local channel disputes, that along with all the other issues we have had with our service since the ATT takeover, it was just "one more straw" and might even be the last in regards to me staying with DirecTV any longer.
> 
> I had no intent either of pushing for any kind of credit or other compensation for losing one of our channels like this but she volunteered on her own to see if there were any discounts off of my Premier package she could offer and to both our surprises, there were none. I have NEVER asked for any but have been offered a few over the years simply for being a "valued DirecTV customer". So it appears my valued customer status isn't what it used to be either.


Local channel disputes were happening long before AT&T got involved and will continue without regard to management. From size alone, the LCC seems to be a better device than the AM21, so maybe we should be thanking AT&T for developing a better OTA product?


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

trh said:


> Local channel disputes were happening long before AT&T got involved and will continue without regard to management. From size alone, the LCC seems to be a better device than the AM21, so maybe we should be thanking AT&T for developing a better OTA product?


Nobody here is going to give AT&T credit for anything. If Directv does anything good, it is the Directv employees that made it happen. If Directv does anything bad, it is because AT&T ruined them


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## twiseguy (Jan 31, 2011)

jimmie57 said:


> The link I posted in post #104 shows:
> 
> *Watch local TV channels with DIRECTV*
> If you took advantage of a recent over-the-air antenna offer, find out how to set up your local channel connector to watch local news, sports, and more on *HR44 and HR54 receivers.*


I didn't see the HR44 HR54 on the top of that page.
Oh well, not getting DVR's. 
Thought maybe somebody had tried it on H24, H25 receiver just to see.
Ya never know


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

twiseguy said:


> I didn't see the HR44 HR54 on the top of that page.
> Oh well, not getting DVR's.
> Thought maybe somebody had tried it on H24, H25 receiver just to see.
> Ya never know


Older than the HR44 software for H24, HR24, etc. does not have anything about OTA channels like others have posted about the HR54, etc.


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## grover517 (Sep 29, 2007)

slice1900 said:


> Nobody here is going to give AT&T credit for anything. If Directv does anything good, it is the Directv employees that made it happen. If Directv does anything bad, it is because AT&T ruined them


Slice, How can I give ATT credit for anything when all I see lately are service reductions, eliminations, off shore call centers and other changes that for decades were no problem for DirecTV pre ATT?

My optimistic side wants me to believe that these are all "growing pains" due to the ATT transition and why would ATT do anything to destroy a profitable and widely liked company. But given all the issues we alone have seen in the past year or so since ATT took over, and I won't waste my time regurgitating here, my pessimistic side tends to win out and says there is a bigger picture here than simply another "dispute". Time will tell.

And as for the LCC, correct me if I am wrong but from everything I have read about it, it's really nothing more than an AM21 in a new suit that is in reality another companies technology and all ATT did was create proprietary drivers for it so it would work with "some" of the current DVR's. It may be smaller and possibly have slightly more sensitive tuners in it but it still has a 2 tuner limit, puts off a lot of heat, requires more wiring and an antenna that is capable of receiving strong enough signals. And with digital signals now not able to penetrate many homes outer exteriors very well, the antenna they send with the LCC isn't going to work for many that can't place it in an optimal position such as a window or outer wall facing the broadcast towers and many got rid of their rooftop antennas long ago.

So forgive me if I don't consider the LCC a true "step forward" and something to applaud ATT for and if it is truly considered by ATT to be a new weapon to strong arm local station owners to accept whatever ATT dictates to carry their signals going forward instead of simply an option for some, this is only going to get worse.


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

Look at it this way, Both Dish and Direct have a LCC now.
They call them different things.
Dish has not added OTA guide data in 3 years for most markets.
Directv is now adding tons of guide data every month slowly.
I would say Directv or someone should get credit for this. OTA guide data is a big things considering they ran out of space with the hex code issue years ago, they found a work around. 
There are Tons of Free Over the Air channels not uplinked on the sat, free.
Some should get credit for adding the guide data. Maybe we send them a gift card?


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## dod1450 (Dec 16, 2009)

palmgrower said:


> Grover517, congratulations! I contacted them last week and they wouldn't ship me one.


 Whey is Directv holding back on making the LCC available to everyone who would like to order it? Yesterday I called and they said California is not available to receive the LCC.


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

At least this time when you called, they even knew what one was, getting closer . . . .
Maybe all CSRs need some training first on it before they will offer it nation wide, or maybe there is still a Pilot test with some known bugs to work out.
Any one out there seeing any issues with the new LCC? Is it working good for you?

QUESTION: I know one person here had some, could you please post a screen show of the Hardware summary screen showing model and device ID?

The physical box looks the same as the Hauppauge AirTV (same case but white) by Dish and the USB Tuner by Dish (came case size and shape as the LCC) just with a different lable on it and different USB cable. If the device ID matches those others will work also.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

dod1450 said:


> Whey is Directv holding back on making the LCC available to everyone who would like to order it? Yesterday I called and they said California is not available to receive the LCC.


Because they aren't ready to release it nationally yet. Maybe it still has some serious bugs, or they don't feel they've tested it long enough to feel confident it doesn't have any serious bugs.


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## dod1450 (Dec 16, 2009)

slice1900 said:


> Because they aren't ready to release it nationally yet. Maybe it still has some serious bugs, or they don't feel they've tested it long enough to feel confident it doesn't have any serious bugs.


 Hick , I don't mind being a beta tester.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

scottchez said:


> If the device ID matches those others will work also.


I did ask for VID_/PID_ but still waiting for an answer


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## grover517 (Sep 29, 2007)

Here is some info I gleaned from the screen on my HR44 as well as the label on the LCC. If your looking for something else, tell me what screen info you want and I will do my best to provide it.

HR44
Antenna Type LCC
Connection Status Connected
Primary Local 34269
Secondary Local None
Ch's via Antenna 32
Vendor ID 0xeb1a
Product ID 0x5902

Label on LCC
Model: LCCR0X-38
Made in China
REG. M/N: E96
DT P/N 216010
5v: 1A
ATT 20004511

Compared to my AM21 that the LCC replaced, I did see some pretty large signal acquisition increases on some channels (were about 75 percent and now 100) where others stayed about the same even though all the channels tested were on the same tower about 25 miles away. I am not using the antenna provided with the kit. As for heat, the LCC gets warm to the touch but no where near what I was lead to believe in some other posts I had seen. HTH


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## twiseguy (Jan 31, 2011)

jimmie57 said:


> Older than the HR44 software for H24, HR24, etc. does not have anything about OTA channels like others have posted about the HR54, etc.


That's what I was wondering. 
If the LCC would be able to replace the AM21's I currently use on both my H24 & H25 receivers.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

twiseguy said:


> That's what I was wondering.
> If the LCC would be able to replace the AM21's I currently use on both my H24 & H25 receivers.


We might get updated software but no telling how long that would be. I think they are pushing for everyone to have a Genie and clients from all that I read.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

grover517 said:


> Here is some info I gleaned from the screen on my HR44 as well as the label on the LCC. If your looking for something else, tell me what screen info you want and I will do my best to provide it.
> 
> HR44
> Antenna Type LCC
> ...


Great ... thanks ...

Vendor: "eMPIA Technologies INC."

Product: No listing for an ID of 0x5902 from that particular vendor.

Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

Based on the ID which then took us to the Vendor name which then takes us to this Company web site that says they do USB Tuners for Sat.
They have cool diagram. Bet these are they guys making it. They may also make them for other vendors like Haupauge, hard to know.

28XXX - USB TV - eMPIA Technology


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

Looks like the eMPIA chip also is the brand used on the Dish Network OTA Tuner (LCC).
It is also what they use in the AIR TV which is owned by Echo Star who also owns Dish.

See Post #40 here for the photo
This means there is a chance the DISH Tuner or AirTV tuner might work if the device IDs match. Same Chip.
Worth a try if anyone happens to have an old Dish system. Just plug in the tuner, see what it does.


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

Here is a side by side showing the 8178 chip set in the Dish USB Tuner. Same chip as shown on the hardware makers web site. So good chance Hauppauge made this using their chip.
THIS IS GOOD NEWS. This a real good chip set to use for OTA. It really pulls in signals much better than the old AM21, I have used both the AM21 and the Dish USB Tuner, the Dish with the newer chip set is much better. Looks like the LCC will have the same chip is what I am saying.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Anyone know the Device IDs (or PIDs) of those other devices?

As that's the only thing I can see preventing it from working on the DIRECTV Genies. If the firmware is looking for a PID of only 0x5902

Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk


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## Jodean (Jul 17, 2010)

grover517 said:


> Here is some info I gleaned from the screen on my HR44 as well as the label on the LCC. If your looking for something else, tell me what screen info you want and I will do my best to provide it.
> 
> HR44
> Antenna Type LCC
> ...


weird, i was getting better signal on my am21


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## dod1450 (Dec 16, 2009)

grover517 said:


> Here is some info I gleaned from the screen on my HR44 as well as the label on the LCC. If your looking for something else, tell me what screen info you want and I will do my best to provide it.
> 
> HR44
> Antenna Type LCC
> ...


 Are you using the antenna that comes with the kit or an outdoor antenna?


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

HoTat2 said:


> Anyone know the Device IDs (or PIDs) of those other devices?
> 
> As that's the only thing I can see preventing it from working on the DIRECTV Genies. If the firmware is looking for a PID of only 0x5902
> 
> Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk


The firmware will almost certainly look for a VID & PID match, but that same PID might be used in other products. These eMPIA chips are in several KWorld products, as well as Gadmei, Pinnacle and Terratec, and others, so the good news is that they aren't associated with just a single brand of devices.

The odds are good there is or will be other USB tuners out there with the same PID that could be used as a substitute for the LCC. Before anyone gets excited and thinks maybe some of them will be capable of being powered via USB alone, I'll bet the reason the LCC doesn't is because Directv receivers output only the minimum power required by the USB spec, which must not meet the demands of the chip. USB tuners designed to plug into a PC would expect to be able to draw more power...


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

scottchez said:


> View attachment 29710
> Looks like the eMPIA chip also is the brand used on the Dish Network OTA Tuner (LCC).
> It is also what they use in the AIR TV which is owned by Echo Star who also owns Dish.
> 
> ...


OK I did a little digging and that eMPIA EN28178 chip is the USB interface chip, NOT the ATSC chip. So just because another product uses it doesn't mean it will be compatible. You really need to find a VID/PID match to be sure.


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

If anyone does try a different brand as a test , be sure to use a powered usb hub so the power level is right. Like said above the usb port may not have enough power hence why they inclube a power end for the new LCC


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

usually power consumption of USB available by reading USB info;
connect the LCC to PC and run Microsoft USB utility to probe it, it will pull also max current value what the device require


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## grover517 (Sep 29, 2007)

P Smith said:


> connect the LCC to PC and run Microsoft USB utility to probe it, it will pull also max current value what the device require


Link to download or is it in Windows 10 already?


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

grover517 said:


> Link to download or is it in Windows 10 already?


here is; 
unzip it, then un7z it, then change extension "png" to "exe"
I'm using it under W10


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## grover517 (Sep 29, 2007)

---===>Device Information<===---
English product name: "USB ATSC Device"
ConnectionStatus: 
Current Config Value: 0x00 -> Device Bus Speed: High
Device Address: 0x04
Open Pipes: 0
*!*ERROR: No open pipes!
===>Device Descriptor<===
bLength: 0x12
bDescriptorType: 0x01
bcdUSB: 0x0200
bDeviceClass: 0x00 -> This is an Interface Class Defined Device
bDeviceSubClass: 0x00
bDeviceProtocol: 0x00
bMaxPacketSize0: 0x40 = (64) Bytes
idVendor: 0xEB1A = Empia Technology, Inc.
idProduct: 0x5902
bcdDevice: 0x0100
iManufacturer: 0x00
iProduct: 0x01
English (United States) "USB ATSC Device"
iSerialNumber: 0x02
English (United States) "0"
bNumConfigurations: 0x01
===>Configuration Descriptor<===
bLength: 0x09
bDescriptorType: 0x02
wTotalLength: 0x0037 -> Validated
bNumInterfaces: 0x01
bConfigurationValue: 0x01
iConfiguration: 0x00
bmAttributes: 0xA0 -> Bus Powered
MaxPower: 0x96 = 300 mA
===>Interface Descriptor<===
bLength: 0x09
bDescriptorType: 0x04
bInterfaceNumber: 0x00
bAlternateSetting: 0x00
bNumEndpoints: 0x02
bInterfaceClass: 0xFF -> Vendor Specific Device
bInterfaceSubClass: 0x00
*!*CAUTION: This appears to be an invalid bInterfaceSubClass
bInterfaceProtocol: 0x00
iInterface: 0x00
*!*ERROR: 0xFF is the prerelease USB Video Class ID
===>Endpoint Descriptor<===
bLength: 0x07
bDescriptorType: 0x05
bEndpointAddress: 0x84 -> Direction: IN - EndpointID: 4
bmAttributes: 0x02 -> Bulk Transfer Type
wMaxPacketSize: 0x0200 = 0x200 max bytes
bInterval: 0x00
===>Endpoint Descriptor<===
bLength: 0x07
bDescriptorType: 0x05
bEndpointAddress: 0x85 -> Direction: IN - EndpointID: 5
bmAttributes: 0x02 -> Bulk Transfer Type
wMaxPacketSize: 0x0200 = 0x200 max bytes
bInterval: 0x00
===>Interface Descriptor<===
bLength: 0x09
bDescriptorType: 0x04
bInterfaceNumber: 0x00
bAlternateSetting: 0x01
bNumEndpoints: 0x02
bInterfaceClass: 0xFF -> Vendor Specific Device
bInterfaceSubClass: 0x00
*!*CAUTION: This appears to be an invalid bInterfaceSubClass
bInterfaceProtocol: 0x00
iInterface: 0x00
*!*ERROR: 0xFF is the prerelease USB Video Class ID
===>Endpoint Descriptor<===
bLength: 0x07
bDescriptorType: 0x05
bEndpointAddress: 0x84 -> Direction: IN - EndpointID: 4
bmAttributes: 0x02 -> Bulk Transfer Type
wMaxPacketSize: 0x0200 = 0x200 max bytes
bInterval: 0x00
===>Endpoint Descriptor<===
bLength: 0x07
bDescriptorType: 0x05
bEndpointAddress: 0x85 -> Direction: IN - EndpointID: 5
bmAttributes: 0x02 -> Bulk Transfer Type
wMaxPacketSize: 0x0200 = 0x200 max bytes
bInterval: 0x00


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## grover517 (Sep 29, 2007)

Windows 10 USB ATSC Device Properties

Device USB\VID_EB1A&PID_5902\0 was configured.
Driver Name: null
Class Guid: {00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000}
Driver Date: 
Driver Version: 
Driver Provider: 
Driver Section: 
Driver Rank: 0x0
Matching Device Id: 
Outranked Drivers: 
Device Updated: false
Parent Device: USB\ROOT_HUB30\4&6a02b4&0&0


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

grover517 said:


> MaxPower: 0x96 = 300 mA


I don't know what power budget of DTV DVR's USB port(s), but the above look innocent


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Theoretically a PC that's plugged in is required to supply [email protected], while "lower power devices" like a phone are only required to supply 100mA (add 50% to each mA figure for USB3)

Obviously DVRs are plugged in, so if they followed the letter of the USB spec I guess they should supply 500mA, but there's no one to enforce these USB requirements so I'll bet it only supplies 100mA and possibly supplies no power at all - given that when everything from the H21/HR21 all the way through the HR54 was designed, Directv supported only one thing to be plugged into it, the AM21 which is separately powered. So why would they want to supply additional power they had no use for, that means designing the power supply for a slightly higher peak load; they want to shave pennies off the cost to make receivers not add pennies to the cost.

The HS17 appears to have been designed to have NOTHING plug into it - it declared no support for the AM21 from day one of pre release testing and the LCC did not yet exist when it was being designed. They must use the USB port for diagnostics otherwise the HS17 would probably not have a USB port at all!

The H20 supported having a USB to serial adapter connected, which would allow controlling it with serial commands to change channels and the like. I'm not sure if that was officially supported beyond the H20 though, since newer receivers supported TCP/IP and SHEF for such control.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Just in case, for people who never been close to design/production device with USB port: to get the USB logo, your device must be certified and fulfil all its requirements what an alliance [USB or HDMI or MoCA, etc] put up in specs.


> To qualify for the right to display the certified USB logo in conjunction with a product, the product must pass USB-IF compliance testing for product quality.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

P Smith said:


> Just in case, for people who never been close to design/production device with USB port: to get the USB logo, your device must be certified and fulfil all its requirements what an alliance [USB or HDMI or MoCA, etc] put up in specs.


And if not, can one have an unlabeled port?


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

sure - why not ? It's up to you


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## codespy (Mar 30, 2006)

Supposedly, I'm getting an OTA dongle per Tech Support via DirecTV (Not AT&T) Chat, after a recent un-related issue I initially discussed, to replace my failed AM21 on my Genie. At first, he said it would be via a truck roll. Then I indicated I'm not in the testing DMA's for the equipment, so the truck roll would not likely have it in stock. He then said since I have PP, he would drop ship at no cost. I checked my DirecTV account online right afterwards and it showed the details below. "Crossing my fingers it arrives"......

See attachment.....Looks like their system has it tagged as a RF Modulator, as discussed in the past.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

codespy said:


> a RF Modulator


I wouldn't be so sure &#8230; it could be something totally different. The OTA USB tuners (AM-21, LCC, etc) doesn't have any "RF Modulator" components.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

codespy said:


> Supposedly, I'm getting an OTA dongle per Tech Support via DirecTV (Not AT&T) Chat, after a recent un-related issue I initially discussed, to replace my failed AM21 on my Genie. At first, he said it would be via a truck roll. Then I indicated I'm not in the testing DMA's for the equipment, so the truck roll would not likely have it in stock. He then said since I have PP, he would drop ship at no cost. I checked my DirecTV account online right afterwards and it showed the details below. "Crossing my fingers it arrives"......
> 
> See attachment.....Looks like their system has it tagged as a RF Modulator, as discussed in the past.


Well, I'm not going to say you definitely won't receive a LCC, but that totally does not sound like it, so lot's of good luck with it ....

But appears to be just as a ch. 3/4 RF modulator that field techs. and tech. support use to supply for customers who still had old NTSC TV sets without A/V inputs.

Didn't even know DIRECTV still stocked those ...

Anyway, keep us informed what actually arrives ...

Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk


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## codespy (Mar 30, 2006)

You’re probably right, after all it’s AT&T at the wheel now. I have a little bit of hope in that I referenced an AM21 replacement in the chat, and the chat agent typed Local Channel Connector (LCC) in his response to me. We’ll see....


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## Al K (Jan 23, 2004)

They supposedly shipped me an LCC. I got two power cords, one for my receiver and one for my AM21!


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## 242424 (Mar 22, 2012)




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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Al K said:


> They supposedly shipped me an LCC. I got two power cords, one for my receiver and one for my AM21!


I'd really advise those continuing to try an "slip through the cracks" this way hoping to wriggle-out an LCC early. To save time by confirming the CSRs are definitely seeing the model and part numbers posted earlier by grover517 actually on their order screens first before attempting to order.

Otherwise, tell them forget it as it's just going to end up in a cancelled order or something silly and completely different.

Label on LCC ...

**Model: LCCR0X-38**

Made in China
REG. M/N: E96

**DT P/N 216010**

5v: 1A

ATT 20004511

Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk


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## grover517 (Sep 29, 2007)

dod1450 said:


> Are you using the antenna that comes with the kit or an outdoor antenna?


No, tested it with my RV antenna which is a Winegard Rayzar z1 as well as a AntennasDirect Clearstream 4 max on a pole strapped to my RV ladder which has a much greater range than my RV antenna does. Wanted to see what I could pull in from my location using each, what I couldn't, and compare signal strengths as well.


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## sstv (Jul 30, 2006)

Hi All
After a long talk with someone I could hardly understand, I was told the there is a problem with NBC in non specified areas of USA and until that's cleared up, things are kinda on hold for releasing the LCC.
SSTV


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## AngryManMLS (Jan 30, 2014)

sstv said:


> After a long talk with someone I could hardly understand, I was told the there is a problem with NBC in non specified areas of USA and until that's cleared up, things are kinda on hold for releasing the LCC.


Translation: They wanted to get me off the phone so they made an excuse up.


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

Yep,
Many years ago Dish had an issue with some locals where if the customer was not paying for the Local channel via SAT, they also could not get the OTA guide data, there was a threat of a law suit, Cease and Disest
Dish cleared this all up using their lawyers, and now offers everyone the option of $12 off their bill if they dont get the locals. Key is , It has to be NO locals via SAT due to some weird must carry law.

In other words, typical legal issues delaying the LCC, so sad. 
It May take a while to work through the red tape.

TILL THEN Directv is your listening, please just sell the LCC to customers that still pay to get their Locals. Work on the those that want to save $10 later in court if needed. 
(See attached test market screen shot of the $10 savings, yes it was posted before but is hard to find)

Local carrage gets very confusing so guessing they are just working the paper work and legal research to be sure before they release this.
One of the NBC stations must of objected to sent a CEASE and DISEST letter. Sad it takes just one to delay this.

P.S. any one try the Dish or Air TV LCC, they are the exact same case, one is white other is black, you will need your own USB power as the Genie does not have enough for the Dish or AirTV (all same company owned by echo star) so use a POWERED USB hub.



AngryManMLS said:


> Translation: They wanted to get me off the phone so they made an excuse up.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

scottchez said:


> Key is , It has to be NO locals via SAT due to some weird must carry law.


The satellite carrier can choose not to carry a station that has chosen "must carry" but they cannot deliver one station in a market separate from the other stations in the market. If one local station has priced themselves to high they can be dropped and the more affordable stations can still be carried (along with the stations choosing "must carry" and not being paid for carriage). A similar rule applies to cable.

A satellite carrier can allow their customers to opt out of locals. Unlike cable, locals are not required to be delivered to every customer. A customer opting out would receive no locals via satellite (satellite companies cannot sell locals individually).

EPG delivery is separate and DISH now follows the path of passing EPG for most OTA stations (not all subchannels in EPG) even when the via satellite delivery is in dispute. It is a server to DISH's customers - and I am glad that they changed their policy of not carrying EPG during disputes. DIRECTV has been making major steps forward to improve their OTA EPG and move to making via satellite locals easier to drop on a customer by customer basis.

As with DISH, DIRECTV is not required by law to force their customers to subscribe to locals. If one or many customers opt out DIRECTV can still deliver locals to the other customers in that market. The only restriction would be if there was a contract with a station that guaranteed delivery.


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

New Firm Ware rolling out national, time to test the LCC on the HS17 again just in case they put a driver in there.
New = 11AA . should be to everyone by the 3/4 mobil change.
They did not mention in it the testing release notes so probably not, but then again none of the testers have a LCC to try it with so why mention it in the notes.
You never know till you try . . .


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## grover517 (Sep 29, 2007)

HoTat2 said:


> I'd really advise those continuing to try an "slip through the cracks" this way hoping to wriggle-out an LCC early. To save time by confirming the CSRs are definitely seeing the model and part numbers posted earlier by grover517 actually on their order screens first before attempting to order.
> 
> Otherwise, tell them forget it as it's just going to end up in a cancelled order or something silly and completely different.
> 
> ...


And in the website under My Orders, it actually says "Local Channel Connector with Antenna (Customer Owned)" as the item ordered along with an additional line item that I didn't find enclosed with the LCC - "Attorney General Settlement LiL Disclosures".


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## compnurd (Apr 23, 2007)

scottchez said:


> New Firm Ware rolling out national, time to test the LCC on the HS17 again just in case they put a driver in there.
> New = 11AA . should be to everyone by the 3/4 mobil change.
> They did not mention in it the testing release notes so probably not, but then again none of the testers have a LCC to try it with so why mention it in the notes.
> You never know till you try . . .


I can guarantee you some of the testers have a LCC and have for awhile but are under a heavy NDA


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## GekkoDBS (Dec 5, 2015)

compnurd said:


> I can guarantee you some of the testers have a LCC and have for awhile but are under a heavy NDA


Has there been any success reported in getting retentions to send you an LCC?


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

Only a few Cities are allowed to get a LCC
Las Vegas is one of them.
Here is the official web site for Vegas that says the LCC is only avl by phone. I you will find this I think for Salt Lake also (it was a pilot city, not sure if still is).
Again more proof this thing is coming, we just dont when.
It is the very top banner add with the phone number.

"Local Channel Connector offer only available by phone."
DIRECTV® North Las Vegas, NV - Official Site | 1-855-833-4388


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

GordonGekko said:


> Has there been any success reported in getting retentions to send you an LCC?


Though "Loyalty" (aka formally "Retention") has been head'n shoulders better than the frontline CSRs (who are totally clueless) in helping eligible people order the new LCC.

Outside the official test areas, the system will not even let them send you one unless you have a local channel outage due to a contractual dispute.

Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk


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## 242424 (Mar 22, 2012)

You would think they would let the DMA's that they don't carry locals for have one.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

242424 said:


> You would think they would let the DMA's that they don't carry locals for have one.


Logically they should ...

But DIRECTV doesn't always do business logically ...

Though still worth a try ...

Eligible or not the most immediate problem is first finding someone who even knows what the LCC is.

And Loyalty is your best option there. ...

Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

242424 said:


> You would think they would let the DMA's that they don't carry locals for have one.


Those DMAs are very small and they probably don't have very many Directv customers due to the lack of locals.

They also haven't added the subchannels in any of the 12 markets where Directv doesn't provide locals. If they were going to offer the LCC to those folks, they'd have already updated them.


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## 242424 (Mar 22, 2012)

slice1900 said:


> Those DMAs are very small and they probably don't have very many Directv customers due to the lack of locals.


I might see more Dish here than DTV but Dish does offer locals here but Fox and ABC are SD


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

I wonder if Directv plans to eventually make the LCC an option for the 'Directv via IP' product? The trick is how they would connect it. Theoretically you could plug one into a C71KW's USB port, and it could share that programming with your other clients. The hardware is fine, they just need to write the software to make that happen. I'm kinda skeptical since Directv seems to go for the simple solutions only.

I guess if it only works on the satellite product that would be part of the reason you might want to stick with it - and by dropping your locals and getting a discount it would help equalize the cost between the two (assuming that at minimum you won't pay the $15 advanced receiver fee for the IP product since you'll have no Genie)

Of course it would be live only, since you don't have anywhere to record, which would make it a pretty poor option for most people.


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## GekkoDBS (Dec 5, 2015)

HoTat2 said:


> Though "Loyalty" (aka formally "Retention") has been head'n shoulders better than the frontline CSRs (who are totally clueless) in helping eligible people order the new LCC.
> 
> Outside the official test areas, the system will not even let them send you one unless you have a local channel outage due to a contractual dispute.
> 
> Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk


I tried to find this answer online but to no avail, for those who had the AM21, will your receiver display settings work with the OTT channels, that is if you are scaling down to 480i or down to standard screen will it display the hd feed in pillarbox format as it does when you are watching hd channels on Directv and scaling down?


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

GordonGekko said:


> I tried to find this answer online but to no avail, for those who had the AM21, will your receiver display settings work with the OTT channels, that is if you are scaling down to 480i or down to standard screen will it display the hd feed in pillarbox format as it does when you are watching hd channels on Directv and scaling down?


Yes a received OTA program can be down-converted to 480i just like the satellite channels.

And as with the sat. chs. if the native format of the received program is in HD and "16:9" is selected in the receiver settings. The 480i down-converted format will always be in 16:9 SD. So the only way to have a "pillar-box" display is if the station is broadcasting 4:3 material and inserts the matte pillar bars.

However IIRC, (as it's been a long time since I've needed to use the 4:3 option in the receiver settings). If the received program is in HD and "4:3" is selected in the receiver settings. The 480i output can be either cropped to 4:3, or a 16:9 letter-box into 4:3. Or "vertically stretched" into 4:3 option for occasional cases of correcting for 16:9 stretch-o-vision images letter-boxed into 4:3.

Whatever the case though, the receiver output will always be in 4:3 and thereby your TV set must generate the matte pillar bars to fill out the screen on an HD TV.

Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

GordonGekko said:


> I tried to find this answer online but to no avail, for those who had the AM21, will your receiver display settings work with the OTT channels, that is if you are scaling down to 480i or down to standard screen will it display the hd feed in pillarbox format as it does when you are watching hd channels on Directv and scaling down?


Yes, everything about OTA programming is affected by receiver display settings in exactly the same way satellite programming is.


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## spiketoo (Sep 24, 2007)

Not sure if correct thread but beware the DB! Wasn't paying attention and went to record a show via 'Other Showings'. Went to watch it and it was showing as error. Only then did i realize that the first selection under Other Showings was PBS 8.2 which obviously I do not receive - just paid attention to '8'! Can't say I ever paid attention to what channel an Other Showing listed - if it was there I just selected it and recorded it!


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## Michael H.. (May 31, 2007)

Question: Can someone from the LCC test markets confirm whether the LCC integrated OTA channels appear in their DTV or ATT login account online guide?
_____

Have 9 DVR's with AM21's on 7 of them. The 2 that don't are HR20's which have built-in OTA tuners.
Frankly I'm surprised at how much advanced interest the LCC's have generated given that such a small percentage of subscribers opted for the AM21's.
Can't tell if the interest is from AM21 owners or from subscribers who weren't previously interested in the OTA subchannels or had no rain fade or carriage issues with the OTA primary feeds.
What I'd like someone from the LCC test markets to confirm is whether they can schedule a recording of an integrated OTA channel online.
The inability to do so is my only negative experience with the AM21 integrated OTA feature.
I have no LIL programming, but I do have DNS channels 389-399 all of which appear in the online guide and can be scheduled remotely.
390/391 CBS, 392/393 NBC, 396/397 ABC, and 398/399 FOX are HD.
389 PBS and 394/395 CW are SD, so I record the integrated OTA PBS and CW in HD and not the DNS SD feeds when at home but am only able to remotely on the HR20's connected to the Sling 500 and Monsoon Vulkano when working remote assignments, which is most of the time.
I would like to be able to schedule recordings remotely on the other DVR's, in particular the HR54.


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

The LCC FAQ already says that remote recording and in home streaming of OTA channels won't be available. (In addition to losing access to the broadcast networks TV Everywhere apps and VOD if you opt to drop locals entirely) 

Basically, the online guide has no idea what OTA channels you get, which primary and secondary markets you selected, or how it was mapped due to translators and other variations, etc. Unless down the road they decide to implement some two way reporting that remotely stores the OTA stations your Genie picked up in your account, it's not gonna happen.


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## Michael H.. (May 31, 2007)

KyL416 said:


> The LCC FAQ already says that remote recording etc won't be available.


Thanks for the response... I didn't think so... Wishful thinking...


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## codespy (Mar 30, 2006)

Yes, just like the AM21, which I have a bunch of. No mobile remote recording, nor on DirecTV/ATT.com.

I can't even do remote recording for 4K channels 104 and 106, I can only record from the receiver/client.

And KyL416, it looks like channel 578 was just dropped according to my neighbor, after a conversation tonight. I referred them to DirecTV two years ago. Do you have any news on that (probably best in the appropriate thread.....)?


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

codespy said:


> it looks like channel 578 was just dropped according to my neighbor, after a conversation tonight


Any chance they have a reverse band LNB and do they still get it on channel 586? It looks like they added the missing 99cr mirror on 578 today which might have caused the 119 version to vanish for them. A reboot should clear it up, although if they're using a custom list they might have to readd it.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

KyL416 said:


> The LCC FAQ already says that remote recording and in home streaming of OTA channels won't be available.


Should we read that as LCC channels will not be available via clients?
Or will the LCC work directly on a physical client?
(Or are we still in the great unknown?)


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## codespy (Mar 30, 2006)

KyL416 said:


> Any chance they have a reverse band LNB and do they still get it on channel 586? It looks like they added the missing 99cr mirror on 578 today which might have caused the 119 version to vanish for them. A reboot should clear it up, although if they're using a custom list they might have to readd it.


I'll PM you.


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## hancox (Jun 23, 2004)

James Long said:


> Should we read that as LCC channels will not be available via clients?
> Or will the LCC work directly on a physical client?
> (Or are we still in the great unknown?)


No. The AM21 works the same. No streaming, but available to clients.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

hancox said:


> No. The AM21 works the same. No streaming, but available to clients.


That is good ... and opens the door for a LCC to (eventually) work with a HS-17 and be available to clients. DIRECTV has accepted the concept!


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

So, this morning I did a search for MeTV and ThisTV on my Genie client. Each search result was similar, in that they pointed to sub channels in my location (Boston). They pointed to WCVBDTV5-2 and WHDHDTV7-2 respectively. When I selected each, I was given an error screen with some instructions to check my antenna orientation and connections to my LCC.

Not having an LCC, or knowing what it was, I did a Google search and wound up here.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

So, call CSR read them your message and order the LCC !


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

P Smith said:


> So, call CSR read them your message and order the LCC !


Ha! Not sure I have the patience for that today...


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

That will be a waste of time. First phone call will be to a clueless CSR who will either not know about the LCC and put him on hold to check, or another clueless CSR who will try and order a LCC, but won't be able to. They will then create a BS answer why they can't order it, or point the caller to the AT&T website to order it on their Accesories page. But it isn't on the Accessories page.

By the time it is over, no LCC will be on order because Boston isn't in the Release area and the Caller will be the only one who knows that.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

Yup - hence the reason for my reply to Mr. Smith. I believe he was being a little facetious  in his response to me...

It was good to see the search results, however. Some progress anyway.


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## bjdotson (Feb 20, 2007)

OK, these are probably stupid questions, but I need to get a few things clear in my mind. I have 2 Hr24-200s. Now I live in the Salt Lake Viewing area so I could get an LCC due to the dispute with NBC. If I did, would an LCC work with that setup? If not, If I could find an AM21 are those still workable? If I did get an LLC, I probably wouldn't cancel my locals. I assume that this an option, correct? Right now, my wife is watching her favorite show on nbc.com but would much rather watch it via the DVR.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

bjdotson said:


> OK, these are probably stupid questions, but I need to get a few things clear in my mind. I have 2 Hr24-200s. Now I live in the Salt Lake Viewing area so I could get an LCC due to the dispute with NBC. If I did, would an LCC work with that setup? If not, If I could find an AM21 are those still workable? If I did get an LLC, I probably wouldn't cancel my locals. I assume that this an option, correct? Right now, my wife is watching her favorite show on nbc.com but would much rather watch it via the DVR.


There is no confirmation that the LCC works with any receivers other than the HR44 and HR54 Genies.

Earlier in this thread a poster "Jodean" attempted to connect an LCC to a deactivated HR24 as a test. But the receiver wouldn't even allow the test unless he first activated the receiver, which he didn't want to bother with.

So bottom line, no one knows for sure if the new LCC will work with the HR24 or any of the older generation DIRECTV receivers.

And yes AM21s are still available on e-bay or personal sale on forums at substantially lower prices now that the news of the forthcoming LCC became widely circulated.

Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Athlon646464 said:


> Yup - hence the reason for my reply to Mr. Smith. I believe he was being a little facetious  in his response to me...
> 
> It was good to see the search results, however. Some progress anyway.


I wouldn't say that... thought if you got the message about LCC then DTV would give you it...who knows when they will change rule


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## bjdotson (Feb 20, 2007)

Do the AM21s still scan and work with an HR24. Don't want to buy one and find out that it doesn't show the main locals in my area (don't care about the sub channels). Also, is the consensus that the LCC may someday work with HR24s.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

bjdotson said:


> Do the AM21s still scan and work with an HR24. Don't want to buy one and find out that it doesn't show the main locals in my area (don't care about the sub channels). Also, is the consensus that the LCC may someday work with HR24s.


Yes, the AM21s still work with the HR24s ...

However the HR24s will at times manifest a nasty bug that DIRECTV never fixed (and nor will they at this point) where they will suddenly and at random stop detecting the AM21. And then act as though it is no longer connected, when it is of course.

When this happens it will usually be a real b***ch to get it to recognize the attachment of the AM21 again.

My brother's HR24 is doing this right now. And even after days of all manner of OTA channel resets and reboots. It still won't detect the AM21 any longer.

And from what I observe the consensus is the new LCC will not work with the HR24 or other older generation boxes as part-and-parcel of DIRECTV's wish to encourage all subs. to move to Genie server-client installations by designing most all new features and equipment for those.

Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

P Smith said:


> I wouldn't say that... thought if you got the message about LCC then DTV would give you it...who knows when they will change rule


Called them at 11am my time - it's currently 1:03pm - on hold to talk to the 6th person I will be transferred to. 

I have time today, so I'm going to stick it out. The last person (5th one) tried to walk me through checking my antenna and LCC connections, even after I told her the same story I posted here the other day. :dizzy:


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

There's no "consensus" about whether they will work with the H2x/HR2x line since it would be pure guesswork. There are more reasons to believe they won't than to believe they will, but we'll have to wait for when it is officially announced to know.


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

Athlon646464 said:


> Called them at 11am my time - it's currently 1:03pm - on hold to talk to the 6th person I will be transferred to.
> 
> I have time today, so I'm going to stick it out. The last person (5th one) tried to walk me through checking my antenna and LCC connections, even after I told her the same story I posted here the other day. :dizzy:


No offense, but you're wasting your time, they are not available yet in your area.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

TheRatPatrol said:


> No offense, but you're wasting your time, they are not available yet in your area.


lol - no offense taken. I just hung up - been on hold for 40 minutes.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

TheRatPatrol said:


> No offense, but you're wasting your time, they are not available yet in your area.


Yeah, most folks here well-know ...

But it's simply the irresistible urge to probe and do "fence-testing" anyway. Particularly if you've got some time to kill ...

Hoping that a CSR will slip somehow and send out an LCC to an ineligible sub. ... 

Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk


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## bjdotson (Feb 20, 2007)

HoTat2 said:


> Yes, the AM21s still work with the HR24s ...
> 
> However the HR24s will at times manifest a nasty bug that DIRECTV never fixed (and nor will they at this point) where they will suddenly and at random stop detecting the AM21. And then act as though it is no longer connected, when it is of course.
> 
> ...


 Thanks very much


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

bjdotson said:


> Do the AM21s still scan and work with an HR24. Don't want to buy one and find out that it doesn't show the main locals in my area (don't care about the sub channels). Also, is the consensus that the LCC may someday work with HR24s.





HoTat2 said:


> Yes, the AM21s still work with the HR24s ...
> 
> However the HR24s will at times manifest a nasty bug that DIRECTV never fixed (and nor will they at this point) where they will suddenly and at random stop detecting the AM21. And then act as though it is no longer connected, when it is of course.


Clarification please. Do the AM21s scan with an HR24?


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

trh said:


> Clarification please. Do the AM21s scan with an HR24?


No the Hx2xs just get whatever matches the entries in the database. Only the HR44, H44 and HR54 got the scanning ability back.


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## sstv (Jul 30, 2006)

Sad Day
I think "LCC" is DOA


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

sstv said:


> Sad Day
> I think "LCC" is DOA


Speculation, or you know something?


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## msglsmo (Dec 27, 2015)

Official? Link?


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## sstv (Jul 30, 2006)

Athlon646464 said:


> Speculation, or you know something?


Speculation because this thing has gone on to long. LCC is not hard to do so why is it not done?


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

They work at their own pace, not the pace you wish they'd work at. I've said before I think they won't release it until they have finished adding all the subchannels to the DMAs, a task which is roughly half done right now.


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

And we've already seen it released in additional DMAs as recently as a month ago where one of the locals were in a dispute. Not to mention recent Genie updates adding the LCC to menus and dialogues.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

sstv said:


> Speculation because this thing has gone on to long. LCC is not hard to do so why is it not done?


Well, can't disagree with the gone on too long part of what you said. However, we know it's in the latest software, and they keep adding more sub-channels to their database every week. The database being updated is what makes me think the LCC may still happen.

If the LCC is killed we'll all speculate as to why. One of the things that could kill it would have been a extraordinary number of calls to support from people in the test markets that couldn't figure out how to setup their antenna. If ATT sees that as an issue, well...

I picked up an antenna last month, and my daughter who is 30 years old was utterly fascinated by the thing. She's a very smart person - tech savvy when it comes to computers - college grad - good job etc. - but could not seem to grasp the idea of watching TV OTA.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

Got to thinking about what I just wrote in my previous post. I suppose if and when they release it, most of the folks who order it will understand what it's all about, so maybe not as many calls to support as I might have imagined about the antenna not working...


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

While I certainly think the LCC is coming, I do sympathize with sstv that ever since AT&T as part of their consolidating control over DIRECTV, took all product testing in house among only their employees and under very strict NDAs.

Things have really hit the slow-track in this area ...

Has DIRECTV actually released any new equipment since AT&T made this change and took everything in house?

I honestly can't think of any myself ...

Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Athlon646464 said:


> If the LCC is killed we'll all speculate as to why. One of the things that could kill it would have been a extraordinary number of calls to support from people in the test markets that couldn't figure out how to setup their antenna. If ATT sees that as an issue, well...


Bundling the LCC with a low quality antenna is a bad idea. They should just offer the LCC by itself, and tell people to set up an antenna themselves or contact a third party to have one installed. Basically people need to be told the LCC and the antenna are self-install products, with no support offered for the actual pickup of channels, only making the LCC work with Directv equipment.

When someone calls for support on the LCC they should be told to disconnect the antenna from their LCC and plug it into a TV and do a scan, and that the LCC can't be expected to pick up channels the TV can't.


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## sstv (Jul 30, 2006)

slice1900 said:


> They work at their own pace, not the pace you wish they'd work at. I've said before I think they won't release it until they have finished adding all the subchannels to the DMAs, a task which is roughly half done right now.


DMA'S are not cast in stone and the sub channels are very fluid. People who are into "OTA" recommend a weekly rescan. The job will never be finished.


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

Slice is referring to the OTA database expansion which is nearly half way complete.

After the expansion hits a given market, as long as the stations in that market properly notify Gracenote about any changes to their subchannels, it trickles down to the OTA database a few weeks later. (i.e. Dallas was one of the first four to get the expansion, and since then it has had updates multiple times) Pay attention to the transponder maps thread if you want to keep up to date on updates to the OTA database.

As for DMA borders, they can only change once a year, and it's very rare for a shift to happen, when it does it only affects one or two counties in fringe areas that border another DMA. So even if your DMA changes, it does NOT affect what stations you can pick up over the air, if you get any at all that far out. It only affects what locals you are given on satellite. (Cable has different rules, and in those bordering counties, the odds are the cable provider is already giving you locals from both DMAs, and if not, they can get an exemption based on where the headend that serves the system is located so they don't have to switch the locals)

Those fringe areas don't have full power stations of their own, so it doesn't affect things like which DMA a station belongs to. That only happens in extreme cases that have nothing to do with DMA border changes, like how two VHF stations in Nevada and Wyoming moved to New Jersey and Delaware by exploiting a long forgotten commercial VHF loophole that was created to protect the license of the then WOR-TV after their owners RKO General were caught up in a bunch of business fraud.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

I think they recommend regular re-scanning because of the on going repacking.


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

Yep, and unless you are living under a bubble, you should be alerted about the specific day(s) you need to rescan well in advanced since stations have to provide notices via tickers and full screen messages in the leadup to their change day.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

Yup - and once a week is probably not necessary. Certainly re-scan if one of your stations goes away, otherwise every other month is likely often enough. Repacking should be over in the summer of 2020.


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

Luckily most stations are coordinating together to do it on the same day unless extreme circumstances prevent them from being able to do so. (i.e. the mess that is the 1 WTC spire where due to mismanagement every station intending to move there had to file to change their final signal pattern, and some will now have to rely on interim aux facilities at 4 Times Square, Empire or NJ) Also, VHF and UHF channels were assigned different phases, so their moves could be a year apart.

Even if you somehow miss the ongoing tickers, come home to see no signal and are completely in the dark about the repack, the stations will have the alerts on the top of their web pages, and if you're a person who insists on calling the station by phone anytime there's trouble, most stations will have automated messages about it.


For new subchannels though, unless it's a no name subchannel network that's just paying to be carried, most stations usually run promos announcing the arrival of a new subchannel.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

By the way, I was lucky enough to land one of these yesterday. I won't ever have to worry about re-scanning.

https://www.tablotv.com/blog/new-accessory-tablo-ota-dvrs-tablo-retro/


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

April Fool


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

:wink:


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

I am thinking with all the man layoffs at ATT and Directv over the years, they now just have a small staff for coding a driver for the HS17, adding OTA guide data, and most importantly testing all this.
Years ago they would Cutting edge release and test this in Months, now we could be looking at years.
We are coming up on the One Year Mark so may have an other year? Hope not.
I would even pay a LOT of money for good OTA guide data and a LCC.
Maybe they should raise the price of the LCC and hire some contractors and get this done by June?
I can only dream.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

scottchez said:


> I am thinking with all the man layoffs at ATT and Directv over the years,


DTV never been overwhelmed by good and big group of coders !


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

I doubt they have people in the US doing the coding, so they probably weren't affected by layoffs. That would explain why there's such a long turnaround time between Directv acknowledging a problem and it getting fixed.


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## makaiguy (Sep 24, 2007)

Athlon646464 said:


> New Accessory for Tablo OTA DVRs - Tablo RETRO
> 
> View attachment 29818


I notice this was posted this past Monday...


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

scottchez said:


> I can only dream.


More like a fantasy.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

slice1900 said:


> I doubt they have people in the US doing the coding, so they probably weren't affected by layoffs. That would explain why there's such a long turnaround time between Directv acknowledging a problem and it getting fixed.


Pretty sure their engineers are still in el segundo.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

scottchez said:


> I am thinking with all the man layoffs at ATT and Directv over the years, they now just have a small staff for coding a driver for the HS17, adding OTA guide data, and most importantly testing all this.
> Years ago they would Cutting edge release and test this in Months, now we could be looking at years.
> We are coming up on the One Year Mark so may have an other year? Hope not.
> I would even pay a LOT of money for good OTA guide data and a LCC.
> ...


You'd be amazed at how long some of the cutting edge hardware was in testing for before it hit the market. Amazed... it wasn't always just a couple months under DIRECTV.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

inkahauts said:


> their engineers


you would be amazing to know how they have many different departments with great variation of different engineers in different locations/countries


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

bjdotson said:


> OK, these are probably stupid questions, but I need to get a few things clear in my mind. I have 2 Hr24-200s. Now I live in the Salt Lake Viewing area so I could get an LCC due to the dispute with NBC. If I did, would an LCC work with that setup? If not, If I could find an AM21 are those still workable? If I did get an LLC, I probably wouldn't cancel my locals. I assume that this an option, correct? Right now, my wife is watching her favorite show on nbc.com but would much rather watch it via the DVR.


According to my friend its unknown if an LCC will work with an HR24 since their systems will not allow them to order a LCC for customers without a Genie. Their guidance specifically states it will only work with the H44, HR44 and HR54. The ordering systems prevents an agent from ordering an LCC for an eligible customer unless one of those three models are active on the account.

At present only customers who are in a market where there is a dispute with a local affiliate can call in to order an LCC. If there is no dispute going on the ordering systems will have the option to order an LCC blocked for the agent.

I would love to get my hand on an LCC personally just to experiment with my HR24 and retire my AM21 on my HR44 but my market has no disputes unfortunately and none are on eBay yet


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Directv has apparently let the CE testers know that they will be testing some H2/HR2x software soon. Since they are still updating the software for them there's at least a chance they might add drivers to support the LCC. Those never got the new GUI though so it could be just a few bug fixes and not anything new.


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## codespy (Mar 30, 2006)

...and our family hopes they never get the new GUI, or remove Music & Photos, or the ability to play Pandora with TV channel on in the background unlike the Genie, etc....


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

codespy said:


> ...and our family hopes they never get the new GUI, or remove Music & Photos, or the ability to play Pandora with TV channel on in the background unlike the Genie, etc....


so there is a thread "New GUI"... other thread


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

P Smith said:


> so there is a thread "New GUI"... other thread


No, he's saying he and his family still prefer the old GUI running on the HR24s and the other older pre-Genie era receivers.

So is hoping that the LCC, whenever released, will work on the HR24s.

Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

I got feeling the thread has been begin derailed and will spiraled down by already existing famous discussion about NEW GUI


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

Status Update

Someone on the ATT Directv forum who is listed as an emplyee posted this on April 12th
So sad this roll out is taking so long. Dish has had their LCC version out for 3 years now. It even looks the same (same shape and size). We are at the One year mark since word of this started showing up on sites.

QUOTE:
"The LCC has been expanded to include more markets, and markets where DirecTv does not offer locals (these are far and few between). To find out if your market is covered call in @ 1.800.531.5000 to speak with an agent."
*I am an AT&T employee, and the postings on this site are my own and don't necessarily represent AT&T's position, strategies or opinions"
UnQUOTE:


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## bt-rtp (Dec 30, 2005)

scottchez said:


> Status Update
> 
> Someone on the ATT Directv forum who is listed as an emplyee posted this on April 12th
> So sad this roll out is taking so long. Dish has had their LCC version out for 3 years now. It even looks the same (same shape and size). We are at the One year mark since word of this started showing up on sites.
> ...


This post would be even better if the additional markets were listed in it.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

bt-rtp said:


> This post would be even better if the additional markets were listed in it.


And the post would also be more accurate to say something like ....



> "The new LCC's database has been expanded to include more markets, markets where DirecTv does not offer locals (which are few and far between), and many additional channels to existing markets as well....


Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

At least we know they are expanding to more markets and not just canceling the whole thing. So that is the good news.

Its been over a air since this started so some are starting to wonder if they canceled the project.
Dish had theirs out several years ago, they did it in 5 months of testing (same hard ware design and chip).


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

scottchez said:


> At least we know they are expanding to more markets and not just canceling the whole thing. So that is the good news.
> 
> Its been over a air since this started so some are starting to wonder if they canceled the project.
> Dish had theirs out several years ago, they did it in 5 months of testing (same hard ware design and chip).


True;

But then again as I posted on another thread, it's not just the LCC, as I really can't recall any new hardware released by DIRECTV ever since AT&T took all product testing in-house to groups of employees under obviously strict NDAs.

This area is really at a snail's pace nowadays.

Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

HoTat2 said:


> And the post would also be more accurate to say something like ....
> 
> "The new LCC's database has been expanded to include more markets, markets where DirecTv does not offer locals (which are few and far between), and many additional channels to existing markets as well....


Wait...have they actually expanded the database in any of the 12 small DMAs where Directv doesn't carry locals? I could have sworn I checked a while back and none had been expanded yet.

For those who are curious but don't follow the thread on the edgecutters site where this is tracked, they are about halfway done with expanding the markets, but seem to go in fits and starts. They'll do a dozen or more markets a week for a few weeks in a row, then go a month or more without doing any. It has been a few weeks since the last expansion, so they are getting to be due for another spurt.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

Well, here's hoping they spurt it up.


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## compnurd (Apr 23, 2007)

HoTat2 said:


> True;
> 
> But then again as I posted on another thread, it's not just the LCC, as I really can't recall any new hardware released by DIRECTV ever since AT&T took all product testing in-house to groups of employees under obviously strict NDAs.
> 
> ...


Well technically they did release the C71k


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

@slice1900 - When did they start the process? Was it a year ago?

If that's the case and there's another year to go, and they wait to make the LCC available when everyone can have it, that would really suck.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Athlon646464 said:


> @slice1900 - When did they start the process? Was it a year ago?
> 
> If that's the case and there's another year to go, and they wait to make the LCC available when everyone can have it, that would really suck.


some answers are posted here OTA Channel Guide Issues


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Athlon646464 said:


> @slice1900 - When did they start the process? Was it a year ago?
> 
> If that's the case and there's another year to go, and they wait to make the LCC available when everyone can have it, that would really suck.


They started it last summer I think. I don't think we can assume they'll stay on the same pace - they could finish it in a few weeks if they made it a priority, but there isn't any hurry until they are ready to release the LCC (I think they will want to have the database expansion 100% complete before a nationwide release)

What all they feel they need to have ready/done before they release the LCC is anyone's guess, but if there are now more markets where it is available they are one step closer.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

Thanks for getting back to me. It appears that it's going to be a bit of a wait then. I just don't see them picking up the pace because I don't see what would be in it for them.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Athlon646464 said:


> Thanks for getting back to me. It appears that it's going to be a bit of a wait then. I just don't see them picking up the pace because I don't see what would be in it for them.


What would be in it for them is that they can offer discounts to customers who drop locals and use the LCC. The more customers who do that, the better Directv's negotiating leverage will be with local station owner groups since fewer customers would be impacted by a blackout threat.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

slice1900 said:


> What would be in it for them is that they can offer discounts to customers who drop locals and use the LCC. The more customers who do that, the better Directv's negotiating leverage will be with local station owner groups since fewer customers would be impacted by a blackout threat.


Though I would imagine the leverage the stations feel they can bank on is the fact that DIRECTV's OTA solutions have never really caught-on in the past.

AM21s, H/HR20 and HD TiVo integrated ones, ....

So will just a $10 discount be all that greater of an incentive for subscribers to really flock to the LCC OTA adapter to give DIRECTV substantial bargaining power in future local channel carriage negotiations?

Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

slice1900 said:


> What would be in it for them is that they can offer discounts to customers who drop locals and use the LCC. The more customers who do that, the better Directv's negotiating leverage will be with local station owner groups since fewer customers would be impacted by a blackout threat.


I don't think that's enough to get AT&T moving. I have to believe that even at it's peak, the AM21 was installed by a very small percentage of subs. For now, the LCC is just there to placate annoyed subs when there is already a dispute. Also, I'm not sure I would lower my bill by $10 even if I had an LCC (like many others would not), so the percentage of subs AT&T could use while negotiating would be even smaller. Every time I see this argument, this is my thought process, IMHO.



HoTat2 said:


> Though I would imagine the leverage the stations feel they can bank on is the fact that DIRECTV's OTA solutions have never really caught-on in the past.
> 
> AM21s, H/HR20 and HD TiVo integrated ones, ....
> 
> So will just a $10 discount be all that greater of an incentive for subscribers to really flock to the LCC OTA adapter to give DIRECTV substantial bargaining power in future local channel carriage negotiations?


I don't think so. IMHO, cord cutters and cord nevers will drive locals to re-think their model, not the LCC.

However, I wouldn't be surprised if AT&T were to advertise a dish with an LCC as a hybrid solution just to capture some of the less technical cord cutter crowd.  (Just being a little sarcastic with that, btw.)


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## ctide21 (Sep 4, 2011)

Via chat this afternoon I hopefully ordered a LCC. I have an order number on the website for a "receiver deca" and it also says seasonal sports condition. I am in Socal so we will see if I actually get the LCC. The rep on the chat said it would ship next day and it would be at no cost. Time will tell.


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

You can add yourself to the list of people who thought they bypassed the test markets only to get something else instead. That's the adapter that splits the coax network into a seperate ethernet connection for receivers without internal DECA support.


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## 242424 (Mar 22, 2012)

They don't carry my locals so I guess I could/maybe get one but they haven't said if it's going to work with the HR-24 yet sooo


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## litzdog911 (Jun 23, 2004)

ctide21 said:


> Via chat this afternoon I hopefully ordered a LCC. I have an order number on the website for a "receiver deca" and it also says seasonal sports condition. I am in Socal so we will see if I actually get the LCC. The rep on the chat said it would ship next day and it would be at no cost. Time will tell.


Keep us posted. A "receiver deca" is not an LCC, though.


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## ctide21 (Sep 4, 2011)

I have my doubts as well. Let's go with the glass is half full approach and keep the fingers crossed.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

True Directv's OTA solutions didn't catch on in the past, but they didn't promote them AND they didn't save the customer any money. I'm paying Mediacom just under $15/month for locals, and while Directv is a lot bigger and can get better rates, they are probably over $10 in most locales.

If it costs Directv that much, giving customers $10 off (or better yet breaking out the cost of locals and just removing them from your bill, so your savings increase over time and your yearly price increases are less since locals are a big part of those increases) is a no brainer because that would help drive adoption of the LCC and the more people adopted it the better leverage they'd have with the Sinclairs and Nexstars of the world.

The only other alternative is continuing to add several dollars a year to people's bills for locals ALONE, and driving more and more people to cut the cord when they reach their "my bill is too damn high" breaking point.

An (updated ATSC 3.0 capable) LCC will also be necessary if/when we see locals in 4K, since Directv will never deliver those via satellite.


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

So what's the current status of the LCC? I'm in the LA market.


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

SledgeHammer said:


> So what's the current status of the LCC? I'm in the LA market.


Hmm... according to DTV, they're only giving them out in markets with channel disputes. Lovely.


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## ctide21 (Sep 4, 2011)

My attempts failed. They would not issue unless there is a channel dispute.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

Not at all a surprise - but thanks for letting us know!


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## Gary Toma (Mar 23, 2006)

On 5/23/18, they broke a nine-year dry spell and provided the first OTA update. The previous update to 5/23/18 was November, 2009.

Let's hope the updates continue.


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## dod1450 (Dec 16, 2009)

ctide21 said:


> My attempts failed. They would not issue unless there is a channel dispute.


 I am confused about this "channel dispute?" So what do you call these networks, H&I, METV, Grit, Startv, and others? Why arn't these classified as "channel dispute?"


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

dod1450 said:


> I am confused about this "channel dispute?" So what do you call these networks, H&I, METV, Grit, Startv, and others? Why arn't these classified as "channel dispute?"


Your deal with DirecTV includes your 'main' local channels. By 'main' I mean the majors - ABC, CBS, FOX NBC, CW. The deal does not include what is usually found on the sub-channels. If DirecTV cannot supply one of those 'main' channels to you because they have a contract issue with that channel, you may qualify for on LCC, which would allow you to receive the channel over the air.


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

The carry one, carry all rule for satellite only requires them to offer carriage of the primary channels of all the full power stations in the market. Lesser stations and non-commercial stations elect must carry status where they're carried for free, others like ones affiliated with a major network elect retransmission consent where they get paid.

A dispute happens when you're missing one of those retransmission consent stations because they couldn't come to terms on a carriage deal. You can search for the station's call sign on the FCC public files to see which ones opted for must carry and which ones opted for retransmission consent, once you find the station you can see it in the "Must-Carry or Retransmission Consent" folder under "More Public Inspection Files". (In some cases even with retransmission consent lack of carriage isn't a dispute, like those stations Sinclair sold off to stay under the ownership cap, but moved the network affiliation and syndicated programming to a subchannel of the station they kept, while the new owners of the licenses "voluntarily" opted to not seek carriage deals or must carry status to remove themselves as competition)

Carriage of subchannels, Class A and Low Power stations is strictly optional, they only carry those if they are the local affiliate of a major network. Although for PBS member stations they have a seperate deal where secondary and tertiary stations can opt to have one of their subchannels carried instead of their HD feed. There's also the Alaska and Hawaii exception where because of years of neglecting those states both satellite providers have to offer carriage to their subchannels too, something that is easier to do in those states since they don't have to deal with multiple markets needing to be covered by the same spotbeam, like they need to do in the lower 48 states.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

Has anyone heard yet if these will work with a HS17 or still limiting to HR44/54's?


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Directv added 26 new OTA markets this week, including 8 of the 12 where they don't offer satellite locals. They have now hit 136 out of 211 markets, or just under 2/3.

If they follow their past pattern they'll do another couple weeks, then wait over a month before the next burst which may take care of them all.


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## tkrandall (Oct 3, 2003)

been away too long from this forum, and just now learning of this LCC. At my prior address I had an AM21, but my current house pat few years - never bothered - it sits in basement and I have no antenna. I do have an HR44 and genie clients now (and the old HR24...)

with apologies to questions perhaps already answered, as I have looked here: 
https://cdn.directv.com/content/dam/dtv/directv_support/DTV_Local_Connector_Guide_2018.pdfq1)

and here:
Local Channel Connector

and have not found the answer.

Q1: can you use another higher gain antenna instead of the one included with the LCC package?
Q2: how do you go about requesting one and how much does it cost?


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

1) Yes
2) You need to be in a test market for it or one of your locals needs to be in dispute. (See the post just three above yours.)


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

And "3" ...

Welcome back ....

Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk


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## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

and "4", your AM21 will still work.


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

Just Got a $300 visa offer to sign up as a new customer, switching from DISH, so I plan to this week.
Really want the HS17 with 7 tuners instead of 5 and double the HD space as the HR54 it is closer in specs to the Hopper tuner and space wise.

PLEASE- could someone try the LCC on the HS17 again, there were several updates. Hoping it now works.
From reading the hundred or so posts we know at least one person has a LCC and tried it many months ago.
They even posted the device ID numbers proving that had one.

I am used to getting 30 free OTA channels via the Dish version of the LCC. Hoping Directv can make it work on the HS17 which seems to be their top model now due to the extra $100 cost.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

scottchez said:


> Just Got a $300 visa offer to sign up as a new customer, switching from DISH, so I plan to this week.
> Really want the HS17 with 7 tuners instead of 5 and double the HD space as the HR54 it is closer in specs to the Hopper tuner and space wise.
> 
> PLEASE- could someone try the LCC on the HS17 again, there were several updates. Hoping it now works.
> ...


Unless you live in one of the LCC test markets, or one of your major locals in 'in dispute', you can't get an LCC anyway.

What would be interesting to us is if your DISH version of the LCC will work on your new HS17 when the HS17 supports it (not sure if it does now - don't think so though). If it will work when support is added that would mean we'll be able to find an equivalent outside of DirecTV. The odds are that it won't, but it's still an open question as far as I know.

Too bad for us you didn't opt for the HR54  for that experiment.

Welcome to DirecTV!


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

Kind of a gamble, may have to go with and HR54 as we know it works with the AM21, for all we know they could cancel the project to get the HS17 working with the AM21 or LCC, I must have METV, COMET TV, and all my PBS sub channels in my guide.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

If you 'must', then an AM21 from Ebay and an HR54 makes sense for you.


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## litzdog911 (Jun 23, 2004)

scottchez said:


> Kind of a gamble, may have to go with and HR54 as we know it works with the AM21, for all we know they could cancel the project to get the HS17 working with the AM21 or LCC, I must have METV, COMET TV, and all my PBS sub channels in my guide.


That would be my recommendation. Who knows if the LCC will ever become an official product.


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

litzdog911 said:


> That would be my recommendation. Who knows if the LCC will ever become an official product.


Yup... I'm STILL waiting for the PC add in card that was promised umm... what was it, 15+ yrs ago? .


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

Guess I could just upgrade the Hard Drive on my own and get the same space as a HS17. HS17 is $100 more
Guess I am going off topic, sorry.
What Genie Mini model number should I get (want all wired).

BIG SALE
They are also throwing in a Year of HBO and the Sunday ticket with the $300. I got it all in writing.
Its their Switch from Dish sale.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

scottchez said:


> switching from DISH


if you have the dish OTA dongle, any chance to pull its VID/PID ?


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Dont ever expect the hs17 to work with the LLC and you won’t be disappointed in it. 

You could also look into a DVR that just records over the air separate from DIRECTV. 

Or get an hr54. I’d never get a hs17 expecting it to work with over the air myself, I sadly just don’t think that’s coming.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

inkahauts said:


> I'd never get a hs17 expecting it to work with over the air myself, I sadly just don't think that's coming.


Then what would be the point of Directv developing the LCC, when there is already an OTA solution for older hardware? Why bother adding all those subchannels for a solution that will only be supported on their older hardware?

While I agree you shouldn't get an HS17 expecting that the LCC will be supported on it eventually, because who knows how long you'd have to wait, I think the only way the LCC doesn't eventually get supported on the HS17 is if 1) they decide never to introduce the LCC officially for some reason or 2) the HS17 is replaced by a newer model, and they only support it on that new model for some other reason.

What would be the point of all their effort to add subchannels in all markets if they aren't going to support viewing them on their latest hardware?


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

They did add the OTA Tuner status line on the HS17 Hardware stats page so they be thinking of something.


QUESTION: any one try an AM21 on a HS17 recently. I really am about to call and order, too good a deal to pass up. Getting an HS17 would save me from having to upgrade the Hard Drive size plus I get 2 more tuners as a bonus all for $100 more.

I am tempted to buy an AM21 and try it out on my relatives HS17 system just in case.
I know they push out updates about every other month looking at the CE forums.


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

GOOD NEWS
I just called and ordered new service. HR54
The Sale Rep knew all about the LCC.
Sent me to the tech department and they knew about it also in great detail.
Could not order me one though.
So good news is everyone is getting trained on them so must still be coming some day.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

It is encouraging that the CSRs have actually heard of the LCC, that puts it one step ahead of the AM21 already.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

scottchez said:


> They did add the OTA Tuner status line on the HS17 Hardware stats page so they be thinking of something.
> 
> QUESTION: any one try an AM21 on a HS17 recently. I really am about to call and order, too good a deal to pass up. Getting an HS17 would save me from having to upgrade the Hard Drive size plus I get 2 more tuners as a bonus all for $100 more.
> 
> ...


Don't bother getting an AM21 and try it on a HS17, it doesn't work.


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## codespy (Mar 30, 2006)

slice1900 said:


> It is encouraging that the CSRs have actually heard of the LCC, that puts it one step ahead of the AM21 already.


I wouldn't lump the CSR's all into one basket. It was probably one out of, say 5000 CSR's available at different call centers across the world.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

I called several weeks ago. The two CSRs I talked to and the 2-3 supervisors they reportedly talked to all knew about the LCC. But what none of them knew was that it was only for test markets. They all tried to order it for me but the system wouldn't let them (you'd think a reason would pop-up on their screen -- "Only available in select test markets. Available nationwide 'soon'"). 

They finally said 'go to your local AT&T store and they have them in stock.'

So yes, more product awareness than the AM21, but still incomplete information.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

It means they must be receiving some sort of training on it, because why would they know what it is otherwise. There are probably only a few thousand customers who have heard about it outside of those test markets, i.e. people who read this and other sites like it so it isn't because they are being overwhelmed with calls asking about it.


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

They did tell me that once a DMA TV Market is approved as their is a dispute you need to talk to Tech Support to get one. They verify you cant get the channel and walk you through the set up steps making sure you understand.
IN other words no one can get one yet till a market is approved (typically due to a dispute and NBC CBS Fox is missing)


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## JoeTheDragon (Jul 21, 2008)

in chicago seeing 26-5 with no LCC and trying to go to it shows the LCC not detected error.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

There have been a few other people reporting OTA stations showing up in their guide in similar circumstances. Perhaps some sort of screwup in their TMS_ID translation for the new subchannels, probably will be resolved in a few days.


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

Yet an other TOLCC guy. Tried to Order an LCC and failed guy 

When I signed up as a new customer retention said I could get a LCC to price match what Dish Network has. They sell them for $30 (same thing and same size black box on a USB, Two Tuners).

The noted it in my account.
Today Ordered one, they saw the note and said I was approved to get one and they ordered it.
They could not get me an order number as they said sales has to place it but I did give them the part number.
So could be an other TOLCC guy, tried but no luck. Maybe it will come maybe not, system did say I was Approved for a LCC.

My AM21 is coming today also, one way or an other I will have OTA. I get lots of OTA channels from Two major TV markets as I am on the boarder line on the map.
If they both come then I can do a compare and First Look report, will see if the LCC pulls in channels better.


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## codespy (Mar 30, 2006)

Where is the AM21 coming from as you stated?


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

That would be a question for other thread : *AM21*. Right ?


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

AM21 are avl 3rd party only like those auction sites. 

Early test results. 
So far the old made in 2009 Directv AM21 pulls in channels as good as the newer dish version of their LCC usb ota tuner. 
Well worth the cost to have one right now for all those 30 free over the air locals


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

Update
After a week of testing and testing pulling in channels from 50 miles away in the rain . . .
I can say the Directv AM21 is just as good as the Dish network version of their LCC ota usb tuner
They still say i have a new LCC on order, dont believe em as no channel disputes here


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

The AM21 is "as good as" newer tuners if you don't have problem reception like multipath. Newer generations of tuners handle that much better, so if you are in a hilly area or have tall buildings in the area some channels may not come in at all on the AM21 but work fine with the LCC or Dish's version, both of which use much improved tuners. If the AM21 works for you, that's great, and you can't get a better picture than "digitally perfect" with a newer tuner.


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## TGabriele (Dec 5, 2010)

Has anyone tried the dish network adapter?


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

FYI
For anyone wanting to test you must power the dish adapter into a powered usb hub first as directv boxes require the power cord on the LCC as there is not enough power to run it. The dish box included the extra power on the port
I sold mine. Cant test anymore


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

scottchez said:


> FYI
> For anyone wanting to test you must power the dish adapter into a powered usb hub first as directv boxes require the power cord on the LCC as there is not enough power to run it. The dish box included the extra power on the port
> I sold mine. Cant test anymore


BTW, perhaps I missed it, but what model DIRECTV receiver do you have the AM21 connected to?

Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

I have the newer HR54 connected to the AM21. Working good.

I know others have tried but even though both the Retention and Tech Support and Sales department all promised me a LCC if If switched from Dish to Directv, NO one could get me one, not even the all powerfull Retention department, confirming what many others if said, unless your TV market DMA is in a dispute the computer simply wont let em order it.
I confirmed this again very high up since it was in writing on the work order that I would get a LCC to price match Dish. They all confirmed it was promised on the work order.

I knew this would happen as I read it here first so I ordered a AM21 which works the same. Problem is I had to pay for the AM21, where the LCC was to be free.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

scottchez said:


> HR54 connected to the AM21


you must connect it opposite way !


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

scottchez said:


> I have the newer HR54 connected to the AM21. Working good.
> 
> I know others have tried but even though both the Retention and Tech Support and Sales department all promised me a LCC if If switched from Dish to Directv, NO one could get me one, not even the all powerfull Retention department, confirming what many others if said, unless your TV market DMA is in a dispute the computer simply wont let em order it.
> I confirmed this again very high up since it was in writing on the work order that I would get a LCC to price match Dish. They all confirmed it was promised on the work order.
> ...


But in the settings is your edit OTA channel feature broken too?

Mine is where the menu selection buttons normally displayed on the lower right of the screen have been missing for months now rendering the entire feature on my HR54+AM21 combo useless.

Nothing but the "bonk" invalid entry sound for all button presses on the remote control except the left arrow key to back out of the screen altogether.

Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

On my HR54 I can scan for new and edit locals. I am not the normal national release of the software. I am cutting edge right now Beta.


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## TXD16 (Oct 30, 2008)

HoTat2 said:


> But in the settings is your edit OTA channel feature broken too?
> 
> Mine is where the menu selection buttons normally displayed on the lower right of the screen have been missing for months now rendering the entire feature on my HR54+AM21 combo useless...


I had this happen on one of my HR44/AM21 boxes some time ago and was eventually able to solve it by first selecting the "Reset Settings" option under Over-the-Air Antenna Setup, disconnecting the AM21 USB cable from the HR44, doing a double soft restart of the HR44 (or you could simply do a "clearmybox" or "clearmybox 2" keyword search) with the USB cable still disconnected, confirmed that no antenna setup option was available under Settings and that no OTA data appeared in the guide, reconnecting the AM21 USB cable to the HR44, doing another soft restart, and then going through the regular Sat & Antenna setup procedure.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

TXD16 said:


> I had this happen on one of my HR44/AM21 boxes some time ago and was eventually able to solve it by first selecting the "Reset Settings" option under Over-the-Air Antenna Setup, disconnecting the AM21 USB cable from the HR44, doing a double soft restart of the HR44 (or you could simply do a "clearmybox" or "clearmybox 2" keyword search) with the USB cable still disconnected, confirmed that no antenna setup option was available under Settings and that no OTA data appeared in the guide, reconnecting the AM21 USB cable to the HR44, doing another soft restart, and then going through the regular Sat & Antenna setup procedure.


Thanks, I'll give it a try and report back ....

Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Ok. Thanks again! ...

It worked! ....

Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk


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## TXD16 (Oct 30, 2008)

HoTat2 said:


> It worked! ....


:handok:


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

More test data on the AM-21 OTA tuner as we all wait for the newer LCC. . . .
I finally had a channel drop out that is 50 Miles away.
I took a big Hail Storm between my house and the tower 50 miles away.
I must say this tuner is really good for something this old the build date I think says year 2006 on it.


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## codespy (Mar 30, 2006)

My AM21 works great on my HR54-500. I wish scan would come back to the HR24 series DT-DVR's.


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

On my HR54 when I do a new OTA set up it looks like it is scanning for new channels as NEW ONE do show in the guide that are not in their database yet. Some are brand new like the new 6.5 sub channel, it found it. Just dont have guide data yet as they have not added the Omaha DMA market or Lincoln NE yet.


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## GWMontee (Jul 5, 2002)

Called Direct tv, as I had done every week for months. Wanting a lcc, today one arrived. I live in northwest Florida installing now.


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

GWMontee said:


> Called Direct tv, as I had done every week for months. Wanting a lcc, today one arrived. I live in northwest Florida installing now.


What receiver do you have? Please take some pictures.


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## GWMontee (Jul 5, 2002)

TheRatPatrol said:


> What receiver do you have? Please take some pictures.


I am not sure what receiver I have, it is the genie with the phone input. Have lcc hooked up but receiver not happy will not acquire guide data, on hold with customer support. I did not take a picture it came in a box with an antenna and power supply. It is slightly larger than dish lcc. Will advise


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## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

Your guide data issue is probably nothing to do with the LCC. It's a widely reported issue that apparently DirecTV is trying to fix.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

GWMontee said:


> Called Direct tv, as I had done every week for months. Wanting a lcc, today one arrived. I live in northwest Florida installing now.


Congrats! Is one of your locals in dispute?


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## dod1450 (Dec 16, 2009)

Athlon646464 said:


> Congrats! Is one of your locals in dispute?


ATT is working on this website, AT&T TV Promise | DIRECTV, DIRECTV NOW, U-verse, WatchTV BUT IT IS A FALSE. It shows Las Vegas with NO DISPUTE. But They can get the LCC.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

dod1450 said:


> ATT is working on this website, AT&T TV Promise | DIRECTV, DIRECTV NOW, U-verse, WatchTV BUT IT IS A FALSE. It shows Las Vegas with NO DISPUTE. But They can get the LCC.


Vegas is a test market for the LCC.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

dod1450 said:


> ATT is working on this website, AT&T TV Promise | DIRECTV, DIRECTV NOW, U-verse, WatchTV BUT IT IS A FALSE. It shows Las Vegas with NO DISPUTE. But They can get the LCC.


Because LV and (I think SLC) is an exception as its a test market for the LCC ...

Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

GWMontee said:


> I am not sure what receiver I have, it is the genie with the phone input. Have lcc hooked up but receiver not happy will not acquire guide data, on hold with customer support. I did not take a picture it came in a box with an antenna and power supply. It is slightly larger than dish lcc. Will advise


MENU>SETTINGS>INFO & TEST

Did you get it working?


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## dod1450 (Dec 16, 2009)

HoTat2 said:


> Because LV and (I think SLC) is an exception as its a test market for the LCC ...
> 
> Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk


From the website SLC had a problem , but was resolve in April. KLS NBC is now available. What is the criteria for the test site? Has anyone seen the actual testing procedure?


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

dod1450 said:


> What is the criteria for the test site?


You need to be a subscriber in that zip code.



dod1450 said:


> Has anyone seen the actual testing procedure?


If you qualify, you get an LCC and use it.


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## studechip (Apr 16, 2012)

A poster at Satguys isn't in one of the test sites and doesn't have any disputes with local channels, but got an LCC anyways. Perhaps the restriction to locality has been removed.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

studechip said:


> A poster at Satguys isn't in one of the test sites and doesn't have any disputes with local channels, but got an LCC anyways. Perhaps the restriction to locality has been removed.


He's GWMontee here - see post #313. I quoted him, and asked if he was in a disputed area, but he has not responded here.

I saw his post over there - I hope he can give us some details - however his knowledge of his equipment or ability to communicate what he does understand may be limited.


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## sstv (Jul 30, 2006)

Hi All
I read the post at "SAT GUYS" and I called DTV to try to get a LCC. The young lady at DTV ordered me a LCC and said it would be here early next week. Time will tell. I'am in the Dallas market. I asked her if she positive I would receive the LCC and she said yes. I will post next week on the results.
SSTV


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## bjdotson (Feb 20, 2007)

dod1450 said:


> From the website SLC had a problem , but was resolve in April. KLS NBC is now available. What is the criteria for the test site? Has anyone seen the actual testing procedure?


Not that I trust my memory anymore, but what I remember was that when the dispute with KSL started (which is my viewing area) Salt Lake was added as a test market. At the time I think Las Vegas was the only test market. As more and more disputes came up, they decided not to add them as test markets and created the dispute exception. I didn't take advantage because I have hr24s and there was no information on LCCs working with these. I don't know what the status of Salt Lake is now, but it would not surprise me if it was still considered a test market.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Remember folks ...

If you're going to try and call (or chat) DIRECTV for the LCC.

It's best to give them the actual part numbers for it to verify this is the item they're shipping ...

"LCCR0X-38"

or

"DT P/N 216010"


Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

sstv said:


> Hi All
> I read the post at "SAT GUYS" and I called DTV to try to get a LCC. The young lady at DTV ordered me a LCC and said it would be here early next week. Time will tell. I'am in the Dallas market. I asked her if she positive I would receive the LCC and she said yes. I will post next week on the results.
> SSTV


Dallas is where AT&T's HQ is located, so if they were going to expand test markets without releasing the LCC nationally, I wouldn't be surprised to see Dallas as one of those markets.


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## sstv (Jul 30, 2006)

HoTat2 said:


> Remember folks ...
> 
> If you're going to try and call (or chat) DIRECTV for the LCC.
> 
> ...


where can you call to confirm a order SSTV


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Pehaps Tech Support since it falls under the category of "parts" and "equipment?"

But you may want a CSR to transfer you to them directly to avoid all the irrelevant automated troubleshooting questions if you ask the IVR system for them on one of the main customer support numbers.

Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk


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## GWMontee (Jul 5, 2002)

Athlon646464 said:


> He's GWMontee here - see post #313. I quoted him, and asked if he was in a disputed area, but he has not responded here.
> 
> I saw his post over there - I hope he can give us some details - however his knowledge of his equipment or ability to communicate what he does understand may be limited.


My receiver is a hr44-500. I will try to take a picture and of it Later today.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

GWMontee said:


> I will try to take a picture


perhaps you could connect LCC to PC and pull VID/PID too ? 
the process was described early in the thread


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

GWMontee said:


> My receiver is a hr44-500. I will try to take a picture and of it Later today.


Thank you!


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## jamieh1 (May 1, 2003)

Just called and asked about one. They put on order said will receive in 3-5 days.


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## jamieh1 (May 1, 2003)

Checked my acct and it is showing local channel connector at $0 

Just called and asked about LCC he said let me pull that up. He said yea we have them and will send it out. No questions about local disputes or charge to buy one.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

jamieh1 said:


> Checked my acct and it is showing local channel connector at $0
> 
> Just called and asked about LCC he said let me pull that up. He said yea we have them and will send it out. No questions about local disputes or charge to buy one.


Here in the LA market ...

Tried yesterday simply starting with a frontline CSR. Said he'd have to switch me to Tech Support as I suspected.

Woman there after a lengthy delay looking it up finally came back and said I was "not eligible" (for the upmteenth time now) ...

Sign ... 

Maybe I'll try Loyalty (Retention) today ...

What the heck ....

Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk


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## sstv (Jul 30, 2006)

jamieh1 said:


> Checked my acct and it is showing local channel connector at $0
> 
> Just called and asked about LCC he said let me pull that up. He said yea we have them and will send it out. No questions about local disputes or charge to buy one.


where did you check your account? SSTV


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

I called for giggles last night while watching a ball game. First CSR got to the point where she was confirming my mailing address to ship me an LCC when we got disconnected. She didn't call me back. She also said "we have them in stock which is good, because we ship a lot of those." My BS flag went up at that point.

I called back after 10-15 minutes. Talked with a very nice lady (we also got disconnected, but she immediately called me back). She couldn't order one, but didn't know why. So she conferenced in another CSR (from "eastern TN" office), and he couldn't order one either. They both knew about the LCC, but didn't know anything about restricted availability. The CSR from TN thought that might be the issue, but had nothing in his system to confirm that. "Check back later" was the recommendation.


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

*Small TV Stations Locked in Retrans Dispute with DirecTV*


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## glrush (Jun 29, 2002)

We lost our Fox station here in Eastern Iowa. I have an AIM-21 hooked up to my Genie and I get all the locals off my antenna so no biggie. I would like a LCC tho as by AIM-21 is pretty old.

Statement regarding KFXA on DirecTV


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## jamieh1 (May 1, 2003)

sstv said:


> where did you check your account? SSTV


Checked under my orders on directv acct. 
shows two LCC and $0


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

jamieh1 said:


> Checked under my orders on directv acct.
> shows two LCC and $0


What devices/DVRs do you have?


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

trh said:


> What devices/DVRs do you have?


His profile shows he has a HR20 and a HR21.


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## jamieh1 (May 1, 2003)

trh said:


> What devices/DVRs do you have?


I have a HR54 also HR24


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## sstv (Jul 30, 2006)

jamieh1 said:


> Checked under my orders on directv acct.
> shows two LCC and $0


thank you SSTV


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## dod1450 (Dec 16, 2009)

glrush said:


> We lost our Fox station here in Eastern Iowa. I have an AIM-21 hooked up to my Genie and I get all the locals off my antenna so no biggie. I would like a LCC tho as by AIM-21 is pretty old.
> 
> Statement regarding KFXA on DirecTV


Call Directv up.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

jamieh1 said:


> I have a HR54 also HR24


I've lost track of what equipment the LCC actually works on. The DIRECTV.com/lcc page says the HR44 and HR54.










But throughout the years, their pages haven't been accurate.


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## dod1450 (Dec 16, 2009)

trh said:


> I've lost track of what equipment the LCC actually works on. The DIRECTV.com/lcc page says the HR44 and HR54.
> 
> View attachment 29928
> 
> ...


And this time they are correct. It will not work on the HS17 as of date.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

dod1450 said:


> And this time they are correct. It will not work on the HS17 as of date.


The issue here is the HR24.


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## sstv (Jul 30, 2006)

Hi All
I got a "tracking number" Its for Fed Ex and it shows my LCC with Wingard ant is in Dallas and will be delivered Monday. It looks like my wait is over.
It still looks like I will have to swap out my HR 24 for a Mini. That leaves me with a 54 and two mini's. Hate to see the 24 go. might just swap the mini from the patio with the 24

SSTV


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## glrush (Jun 29, 2002)

So, I did call in today and got transferred to tech support. Talked to a very nice person who asked me how long I had lost our local Fox station (It is the Cedar Rapids, IA Fox station and it went dark June 1st). She told me that they could not ship me an LCC because there was a good chance we would be getting the station back soon. So, no LCC for me even tho we do have a dispute with one of the locals. It is no biggie since I have an AIM-21 and can get all the locals via antenna, but I did want the latest tech. If we are still in the dispute next weekend, I'll try again


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

sstv said:


> Hi All
> I got a "tracking number" Its for Fed Ex and it shows my LCC with Wingard ant is in Dallas and will be delivered Monday. It looks like my wait is over.
> It still looks like I will have to swap out my HR 24 for a Mini. That leaves me with a 54 and two mini's. Hate to see the 24 go. might just swap the mini from the patio with the 24
> 
> SSTV


Give the LCC a try on the HR24 first. Maybe support has been added and the LCC page isn't updated yet, can't hurt to check. There's no reason to believe they will ever add LCC support to older H2x/HR2x hardware but there's also no reason to believe they won't.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

glrush said:


> So, I did call in today and got transferred to tech support. Talked to a very nice person who asked me how long I had lost our local Fox station (It is the Cedar Rapids, IA Fox station and it went dark June 1st). She told me that they could not ship me an LCC because there was a good chance we would be getting the station back soon. So, no LCC for me even tho we do have a dispute with one of the locals. It is no biggie since I have an AIM-21 and can get all the locals via antenna, but I did want the latest tech. If we are still in the dispute next weekend, I'll try again


I'd try calling again, that's the first I've heard them tell someone "you can't have it because there's a good chance you'll get the station back". The CSRs aren't privy to negotiation details so they have no idea if it will be back in one day or three months.


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## NashGuy (Jan 30, 2014)

dod1450 said:


> And this time they are correct. It will not work on the HS17 as of date.


That's odd, given that the HS17+C61 was (I thought) the new default set-up they had moved to for multi-TV installations over the past couple of years. I wonder if the LCC will eventually work with the HS17 or if they'll use a different OTA tuner device for those set-ups.


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## armj1978 (Feb 8, 2009)

I just got mine because of a dispute. I lost Fox and CW on Saturday and now I get the message directing me to the dispute website on those channels. I went to watch the Cubs vs Cardinals game and that is when I realized it. I jumped at my chance to get one! I called retention, but the number out there is closed on the weekend and had the option to leave a message. I called the main number and the first good sign was it asked if I was calling due to a local dispute and told me to push 8, if I was. Then it read the same statement that is on the website.

I then said cancel and I got someone right away who knew what I wanted, which is what I expected. I explained that I was upset because I missed the game. He did verify the dispute and asked which channels I was missing by number. He put them in and said the LCC will correct the problem because it can get both channels with the antenna in the box. He didn't notice that I have two HR20's and explained how the channels will show up in the guide. I then asked if I could also get one for my HR24. He said they only work on the HR44 and HR54.

I told him that when I get it, I am going to plug it into the HR24 and see if it works because I watch Fox on that tv. I also asked if it works, could I call back to get a second one. He said yes, but he thought the reason it does not work on the HR24 is because there is not a USB port on it to plug it in, but he would note it on my account to send a second one if it does work. I was happy to just get one, so I thanked him. I looked in my orders and he placed an order for two "Local Channel Connector with Antenna (Customer Owned)."

I have always used my rooftop antenna for locals with my HR20's, so disputes have never caused me any disruptions. I love this one though because now I can retire the HR20's and save some money. Hopefully they will bring back the local channel credit if you don't want them through the satellites. I remember back in the day when they were on a different satellite in SD. I hooked up my old Sony dish just to have them. When they switched them to spot beams in HD, I took down the Sony dish and called thinking I could save $7 a month (That was the credit back in the day I think) and I didn't need both.

At that time, they said it was no longer an option. So I do hope they do make it an option again to make the providers realize their greed. I will jump at the chance for that also. He also said it would be sent priority overnight to me. I also have a HR21 that is getting retired shortly and will try it on that if it works on the HR24.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

armj1978 said:


> I told him that when I get it, I am going to plug it into the HR24 and see if it works because I watch Fox on that tv. I also asked if it works, could I call back to get a second one. He said yes, but he thought the reason it does not work on the HR24 is because there is not a USB port on it to plug it in, but he would note it on my account to send a second one if it does work. I was happy to just get one, so I thanked him. I looked in my orders and he placed an order for two "Local Channel Connector with Antenna (Customer Owned)."


If it only works on your Genie, hook it up there and record your game via the LCC to the Genie. Then you can watch it on your 24.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

NashGuy said:


> That's odd, given that the HS17+C61 was (I thought) the new default set-up they had moved to for multi-TV installations over the past couple of years. I wonder if the LCC will eventually work with the HS17 or if they'll use a different OTA tuner device for those set-ups.


When the first mention of the LCC from an internal Directv doc was shared nearly two years ago, it mentioned that it would work with the upcoming HS27 and HS37. We haven't see any public sign of an HS27, let alone HS37. It isn't clear if the HS17 "rev" that changed a few things was going to be the HS27 and they decided not to change the name, or it has been delayed (maybe designed for more simultaneous 4K but since there are still no real 4K channels there isn't much point yet) or what.

There's nothing hardware wise that could possibly prevent the HS17 from working with the LCC, it just needs a driver. So I have to think it will work eventually if it doesn't already, since it wouldn't make sense to introduce the LCC and only support it on older hardware. Maybe right now it is seen as an AM21 replacement, but once it gets officially released it'll get wider support. Ideally it would support H2x/HR2x since there are still a lot of those in use but we'll have to see.

They seem to be taking their sweet time with it, but they did another block of OTA updates last week and have covered 75% of the market. So that part at least looks like to be completed sometime this summer.


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## NashGuy (Jan 30, 2014)

slice1900 said:


> They seem to be taking their sweet time with it, but they did another block of OTA updates last week and have covered 75% of the market. So that part at least looks like to be completed sometime this summer.


I think they're getting their OTA game ready so that it can supplement that hypothesized "Starter" package that I think will launch on DTV and the upcoming streaming service (DTV Now and/or AT&T TV) later this year. If I'm right, Starter won't include locals (or any of the cable channels owned by Disney/ABC, Comcast/NBC, CBS, or Fox) and it will be the new low-cost option underneath the new Plus and Max packages (which are already live on DTV satellite).


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

NashGuy said:


> I think they're getting their OTA game ready so that it can supplement that hypothesized "Starter" package that I think will launch on DTV and the upcoming streaming service (DTV Now and/or AT&T TV) later this year. If I'm right, Starter won't include locals (or any of the cable channels owned by Disney/ABC, Comcast/NBC, CBS, or Fox) and it will be the new low-cost option underneath the new Plus and Max packages (which are already live on DTV satellite).


The LCC wouldn't be of much use for streaming customers since they can't record off it with a cloud DVR.


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

Update
Just ordered an LCC 22 mins ago, got a confirm number and an order number.
10 mins later the system auto canceled the order saying at customers request.
This is the same issue as last time, if your not in the approved DMA you cant get one the all mighty ATT computer system will cancel the order.

Retention department can not over ride either.
I you just need to wait.

Till then the AM21 avliable on those bidding sites also work, they are many years old, similar thing but larger box. Same USB connection


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## sstv (Jul 30, 2006)

sstv said:


> Hi All
> I got a "tracking number" Its for Fed Ex and it shows my LCC with Wingard ant is in Dallas and will be delivered Monday. It looks like my wait is over.
> It still looks like I will have to swap out my HR 24 for a Mini. That leaves me with a 54 and two mini's. Hate to see the 24 go. might just swap the mini from the patio with the 24
> 
> SSTV


My LCC arrived today, setup went OK.It looks like I got all the "sub" channels. It does not work on the 24.
SSTV


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## 242424 (Mar 22, 2012)

sstv said:


> *It does not work on the 24.*
> SSTV


Bummer, thanks for the report.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

sstv said:


> My LCC arrived today, setup went OK.It looks like I got all the "sub" channels. It does not work on the 24.
> SSTV


Did you get two?


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## cmoss5 (May 26, 2006)

ctide21 said:


> Via chat this afternoon I hopefully ordered a LCC. I have an order number on the website for a "receiver deca" and it also says seasonal sports condition. I am in Socal so we will see if I actually get the LCC. The rep on the chat said it would ship next day and it would be at no cost. Time will tell.


Did you ever get the LCC ?


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## cmoss5 (May 26, 2006)

trh said:


> Did you get two?


WHAT STATE ARE YOU IN?


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

cmoss5 said:


> Did you ever get the LCC ?


On May 6th he posted he did not. (Supposedly ordered April 15th.)


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## sstv (Jul 30, 2006)

trh said:


> Did you get two?


just one


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## NashGuy (Jan 30, 2014)

slice1900 said:


> The LCC wouldn't be of much use for streaming customers since they can't record off it with a cloud DVR.


Right. But I do think that, if a no-locals skinny "Starter" package debuts on the streaming service, it will also be available on satellite. So the LCC would be a great thing for those customers.

As for streaming customers who might get this Starter package, I would expect AT&T to do one of the following in order to integrate OTA locals with DVR capability in with streaming channels on the C71 Osprey box. They might offer their own dual-tuner OTA network tuner, to which a USB hard drive can be attached for local DVR, just like Dish/Sling has done with their AirTV product. This configuration has the benefit of being able to serve live and recorded OTA TV to any screen on the home network without the need for any other hardware, such as the C71 or other STB. I'm pretty sure that the AirTV is de-interlacing incoming 1080i and 480i TV signals into 1080p and 480p streams that are friendly for lots of devices which would otherwise choke on 1080i. It also converts on-the-fly from MPEG2 to MPEG4 h.264 before sending video out onto the network since some devices (including most Rokus) can't handle MPEG2.

Or, perhaps instead, they'll offer the LCC but with a different USB plug attachment that allows a USB hard drive to also connect, and then both plug in together into the single USB port on the back of the C71 box. (Android TV has some low-level native support for OTA tuners and local DVR capabilities.) I have no idea how well the C71 might handle 1080i in MPEG2, though.


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

sstv said:


> My LCC arrived today, setup went OK.It looks like I got all the "sub" channels. It does not work on the 24.
> SSTV


Which Genie do you have?


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

NashGuy said:


> Right. But I do think that, if a no-locals skinny "Starter" package debuts on the streaming service, it will also be available on satellite. So the LCC would be a great thing for those customers.
> 
> As for streaming customers who might get this Starter package, I would expect AT&T to do one of the following in order to integrate OTA locals with DVR capability in with streaming channels on the C71 Osprey box. They might offer their own dual-tuner OTA network tuner, to which a USB hard drive can be attached for local DVR, just like Dish/Sling has done with their AirTV product. This configuration has the benefit of being able to serve live and recorded OTA TV to any screen on the home network without the need for any other hardware, such as the C71 or other STB. I'm pretty sure that the AirTV is de-interlacing incoming 1080i and 480i TV signals into 1080p and 480p streams that are friendly for lots of devices which would otherwise choke on 1080i. It also converts on-the-fly from MPEG2 to MPEG4 h.264 before sending video out onto the network since some devices (including most Rokus) can't handle MPEG2.
> 
> Or, perhaps instead, they'll offer the LCC but with a different USB plug attachment that allows a USB hard drive to also connect, and then both plug in together into the single USB port on the back of the C71 box. (Android TV has some low-level native support for OTA tuners and local DVR capabilities.) I have no idea how well the C71 might handle 1080i in MPEG2, though.


I think it would be smarter to simply offer all satellite customers the option to drop locals, and break out that charge so they can see how much they are being dinged and can save.

Having some sort of low tier package that doesn't include locals would allow advertising a lower price, but I wonder how many people even know whether they would be able to pick up their locals. Especially with a crappy indoor antenna located wherever their Genie is, which is probably not exactly an ideal location. Such an offering might cost them a lot of customer goodwill as people sign up, then find they can't get their locals so they'll have to pay extra to move up to a package that has them or cancel and eat the ETF.

There's nothing that would stop them from allowing a hard drive to connect to a C71, but if they do that why limit it to the LCC? Let all the IP customers have the option of an in home DVR that doesn't have the limitations of cloud DVR. I just don't see this as being likely unless the LCC is a big hit on the satellite side and they have customers clamoring for a way to save money on the locals on the IP side.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

cmoss5 said:


> WHAT STATE ARE YOU IN?


FL.


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## sstv (Jul 30, 2006)

TheRatPatrol said:


> Which Genie do you have?


Genie one, my system is a 54, a 24 and a mini


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## TXD16 (Oct 30, 2008)

sstv said:


> My LCC arrived today, setup went OK.It looks like I got all the "sub" channels. It does not work on the 24.
> SSTV


Since the AM21 works quite well with the HR24, that's both a shame and a little surprising.


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## NashGuy (Jan 30, 2014)

slice1900 said:


> I think it would be smarter to simply offer all satellite customers the option to drop locals, and break out that charge so they can see how much they are being dinged and can save.


That would depend on AT&T being able to negotiate with the corporations that own ABC, NBC, CBS and Fox to give them access to their cable channels (e.g. ESPN, USA, Fox News, etc.) in packages that do not include their broadcast networks, including their O&O affiliates in the largest markets. I'm not sure they can do that (especially if, as I suspect, they are now negotiating a unified set of contracts for the new packages that will span new customers on both streaming and satellite).

Yes, they could do the same thing that Sling TV has done, which is to include ONLY the O&O affiliates but none of the other affiliates of the big 4 broadcast nets (which is why your Sling TV package might include the ABC affiliate if you live in NYC or LA but not if you live in Omaha). But what Sling is doing there is spreading the cost of carrying those O&O affiliates to all their subscribers nationwide, since they don't price their packages differently based on whether or not any of your locals are included.

When I look at the channel line-up for AT&T Watch TV, I just tend to doubt that they put that line-up together only to be used in that service (which gets very little marketing attention). I suspect that it will get repurposed on their more popular streaming and satellite platforms.

Lastly, consider the package names Plus and Max. Those names mean "more" and "most," or "better" and "best," respectively. Seems very strange to me to have products with those designations without having some basic-level product underneath to complete the classic "good/better/best" line-up.



slice1900 said:


> Having some sort of low tier package that doesn't include locals would allow advertising a lower price, but I wonder how many people even know whether they would be able to pick up their locals. Especially with a crappy indoor antenna located wherever their Genie is, which is probably not exactly an ideal location. Such an offering might cost them a lot of customer goodwill as people sign up, then find they can't get their locals so they'll have to pay extra to move up to a package that has them or cancel and eat the ETF.


For new customers going forward, DTV ought to include the installation of an outdoor OTA antenna (same mount as the dish) in with their dish installation for free. But yeah, it would be up to customers to know before ordering installation if they could get decent OTA reception. No way around that, really.



slice1900 said:


> There's nothing that would stop them from allowing a hard drive to connect to a C71, but if they do that why limit it to the LCC? Let all the IP customers have the option of an in home DVR that doesn't have the limitations of cloud DVR. I just don't see this as being likely unless the LCC is a big hit on the satellite side and they have customers clamoring for a way to save money on the locals on the IP side.


Cloud DVR better lends itself to dynamic targeted ad insertion, for one thing. And it's always accessible to any device connected to the internet, in or out of home. The trend across the cable TV world is toward cloud DVR for your pay channels and I don't see that changing.

Again, my suggestion that AT&T will do this "cloud DVR for cable channels + local DVR for OTA channels" thing isn't some crazy theory. It's already being done by the streaming cable TV service with the most subscribers, Sling TV (which, coincidentally, is run by AT&T's arch competitor in satellite TV, DISH).


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

NashGuy said:


> That would depend on AT&T being able to negotiate with the corporations that own ABC, NBC, CBS and Fox to give them access to their cable channels (e.g. ESPN, USA, Fox News, etc.) in packages that do not include their broadcast networks, including their O&O affiliates in the largest markets. I'm not sure they can do that (especially if, as I suspect, they are now negotiating a unified set of contracts for the new packages that will span new customers on both streaming and satellite).


DISH does that. Or are you saying AT&T does not have the negotiation power of DISH Network?

DISH allows their customers to opt out of local channels. One can buy the regular tiered packages without locals. DISH allows customers to opt out even in the big O&O markets. This is similar to the offer AT&T|DIRECTV announced in Vegas last year, where customers could choose to use an LCC and opt out of locals in the Vegas market.


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## sstv (Jul 30, 2006)

Hi All
It looks like the LCC is becoming available to more people. Here's a helpful hint, If you got the LCC to avoid rain fade on local channels, you have remove all the local channels from the "series manager" and replace them with the new OTA channels. such as change 5 to 5.1. Do this on your favorite channels "Custom 1" if you use custom channels. You have to do this because the local channels are still available from the SAT so change all local channels from SAT to OTA.
I am using my outdoor OTA antenna for locals so I can't comment on the Wingard antenna. I have a similar ant on a bedroom tv and it works great. All this changing from Sat to OTA is a "pita" but the results are worth it


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## makaiguy (Sep 24, 2007)

sstv said:


> I am using my outdoor OTA antenna for locals so I can't comment on the Wingard antenna. I have a similar ant on a bedroom tv and it works great


Q re flat indoor antennas: Everything I've read suggests mounting to windows for best reception. Does this apply for windows on side of house opposite from broadcast tower location?


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

makaiguy said:


> Q re flat indoor antennas: Everything I've read suggests mounting to windows for best reception. Does this apply for windows on side of house opposite from broadcast tower location?


Simple answer:

Window or not, you want your antenna (any type of antenna) as close to the tower(s) as possible, with as few obstructions between your antenna and the tower(s) as possible. So yes, glass will block less signal than wood, brick or stone - and even less so on the tower(s) side of your home. On the opposite side the signal(s) would have to go through a wall or two or three to get to the antenna.

The higher the better as well.

Having said that, if it works on the opposite side because you live close to the tower(s), then that is okay for you. In the end, it depends on the signal strength in your area, as well as the design of your antenna.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

sstv said:


> Hi All
> It looks like the LCC is becoming available to more people. Here's a helpful hint, If you got the LCC to avoid rain fade on local channels, you have remove all the local channels from the "series manager" and replace them with the new OTA channels. such as change 5 to 5.1. Do this on your favorite channels "Custom 1" if you use custom channels. You have to do this because the local channels are still available from the SAT so change all local channels from SAT to OTA.
> I am using my outdoor OTA antenna for locals so I can't comment on the Wingard antenna. I have a similar ant on a bedroom tv and it works great. All this changing from Sat to OTA is a "pita" but the results are worth it


Just note that your hard drive will record a lot less if you convert a lot of programs from satelite feed to over the air.


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## sstv (Jul 30, 2006)

Hi All
I hooked up the wingard ant and it was marginal. The ant towers are SW from my location and about 35 miles. The flat bedroom ant was window mounted facing due south. The HR54 is on the north side of the house and only a north window available for the wingard. A better solution is a standard tv splitter located at the LCC ant source. One for the LCC and one for the TV. The reason for all this is to provide a TV source if DTV failed, not likely but who knows. The LCC unit runs very hot so keep it in free air.

SSTV


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## NashGuy (Jan 30, 2014)

James Long said:


> DISH does that. Or are you saying AT&T does not have the negotiation power of DISH Network?
> 
> DISH allows their customers to opt out of local channels. One can buy the regular tiered packages without locals. DISH allows customers to opt out even in the big O&O markets. This is similar to the offer AT&T|DIRECTV announced in Vegas last year, where customers could choose to use an LCC and opt out of locals in the Vegas market.


Yes, I'm aware that DISH has offered that option for quite awhile now. AFAIK, it's the only major MVPD in the nation to do so, and, as I explained above, the situation does not carry over to their streaming service Sling TV, which DOES include the network O&Os.

I hadn't heard about DTV's no-locals experiment in Las Vegas. That's interesting. Perhaps AT&T has been amending deals with the big 4 nets as well as all those other affiliate owners across the nation in order to allow their satellite customers to opt out of locals on their regular cable packages and pay a lower price. It's possible, though I'd be a little surprised if that happened. And I'd be very surprised if they were able to implement such a plan for OTT streaming.

I think AT&T's main concern in dealing with the networks and locals the past couple years has been to get them on board for OTT streaming and to unify their contracts and packages across satellite and OTT. (DISH never tried to do that AFAIK.) So I'm doubtful that we'll see AT&T offer regular packages, such as Plus or Max, without locals to anyone. I can't see the big 4 and the major affiliate groups (Nexstar, Sinclair, etc.) allowing it. But if it happens at all, my guess is it would only be on satellite, since DISH has set a precedent there.

BTW, how long do you think until DTV lowers the prices on Plus and Max from $110 and $130 to something sane and then makes them the default standard packages for new satellite subscribers? Because if that's NOT the plan, I can't think of any reason why they would show up at all in the DTV ordering system. They don't include any channels that aren't already available in the standard DTV packages, so they don't really bring anything special to the table. And at the current prices, virtually no one is going to choose them.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

the activity, persistence and long winding posting of NashGuy must have own _forum_


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

NashGuy said:


> I hadn't heard about DTV's no-locals experiment in Las Vegas. That's interesting. Perhaps AT&T has been amending deals with the big 4 nets as well as all those other affiliate owners across the nation in order to allow their satellite customers to opt out of locals on their regular cable packages and pay a lower price. It's possible, though I'd be a little surprised if that happened. And I'd be very surprised if they were able to implement such a plan for OTT streaming.


I think Directv has always had that option, they just didn't bother with it since they'd pretty much given up on OTA. My commercial account is old enough I have the option to drop locals and they'll give me a $5/month discount. I don't know if residential customers ever got a discount for dropping locals, but the last time Directv cared about OTA they were paying under a buck a month for locals so it wouldn't have been worth giving anyone a discount. It was probably only $5 for me because they had to pay more for locals for public viewing accounts.

The only reason station owners would write something in the contract to prevent companies from dropping locals is if they actually did it or they were worried it might happen. No cable company has ever made an OTA option available, and Directv got away from it years ago. Dish was the only one they had to worry about, and they were a lot more concerned about stuff like AutoHop than the 2% of customers who might get the OTA dongle to save a few bucks.


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## NashGuy (Jan 30, 2014)

P Smith said:


> the activity, persistence and long winding posting of NashGuy must have own _forum_


Consider it free entertainment. (Also, consider proof-reading your own posts for clarity.)


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

NashGuy said:


> I hadn't heard about DTV's no-locals experiment in Las Vegas. That's interesting. Perhaps AT&T has been amending deals with the big 4 nets as well as all those other affiliate owners across the nation in order to allow their satellite customers to opt out of locals on their regular cable packages and pay a lower price. It's possible, though I'd be a little surprised if that happened. And I'd be very surprised if they were able to implement such a plan for OTT streaming.


Around post #10-12 in this thread there are a couple of links (I think posted by P Smith) that takes you to the DIRECTV advertisement for the opt-out and corresponding credit they can receive.


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## jamieh1 (May 1, 2003)

Got my LCC today , just called in over the weekend and asked if they were available said they are and sent me one free there are no local disputes on my area either


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## DirectMan (Jul 15, 2007)

I just called ATT on behalf of my friend who lives in Las Vegas. I asked for an LCC and after a long wait was told by the front line person (I think based in the Philippines) that my local channels are available on DTV and thus they cannot send me a LCC. I thought that Vegas was one of the test markets. Is the test over and you have to live in a market where there is a dispute with one of the local channels before they will send an LCC?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

slice1900 said:


> I think Directv has always had that option, they just didn't bother with it since they'd pretty much given up on OTA.


Back in the good old days, it cost DIRECTV (and DISH) more in infrastructure to deliver locals than it cost in rebroadcast rights. Initially locals were sold as an opt in ... then bundled into the price with grandfathered customers (and commercial customers) being the only ones who could "opt out". It made sense, especially during the years where there was a lot of investment in setting up the physical side of retransmission. The more people DIRECTV could get to subscribe to the locals the more likely they could deliver the channels without losing too much money. Force almost everyone who has locals available to buy locals and they probably turn a profit.

Those days are gone and the rights fees cost more than the physical transmission costs. The uplink centers and satellites have been around long enough that there is no major investment in continuing locals. And the pushback from consumers wanting to save $10-$12 any way they can can be addressed by letting those who can get "free TV" do so ... and still pay DIRECTV each month for additional channels and DVR services. DIRECTV can afford to let people drop locals.



slice1900 said:


> No cable company has ever made an OTA option available,


Cable companies operate under different laws than satellite and are REQUIRED to deliver local channels as part of their base packages. They are regulated under a quota system (instead of satellite's "carry one carry all" within each market rule). Small cable companies do not have to carry every local in their area, but modern cable companies have enough channels that most must offer carriage to every local channel to meet the quota.

(BTW: Carry one/carry all is offer carriage to all ... local stations still have the right to refuse to be rebroadcast.)


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## GekkoDBS (Dec 5, 2015)

jamieh1 said:


> Got my LCC today , just called in over the weekend and asked if they were available said they are and sent me one free there are no local disputes on my area either
> View attachment 29934
> View attachment 29935


What is your state? Which department did you speak with?


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## jamieh1 (May 1, 2003)

Greenville NC Market
Called and talked to retention. That who I always talk with about any thing. They always are better to deal with than front line reps. 
Just said I’ve been checking in every few weeks. So was seeing if available now. Guy said yea they are. Let me order it for you. That’s it


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## codespy (Mar 30, 2006)

NashGuy said:


> Consider it free entertainment. (Also, consider proof-reading your own posts for clarity.)


So Peter speaks a little broken English now and then, it happens. It's way better than my horribly broken Spanish, I can tell you that. 

I'll give the shot at an LCC again in my Milwaukee DMA. Last time I tried a couple months ago, they sent me an RF Modulator instead. Lol.....


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## NashGuy (Jan 30, 2014)

codespy said:


> So Peter speaks a little broken English now and then, it happens. It's way better than my horribly broken Spanish, I can tell you that.


One dig deserves another, regardless of language.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind ... and now back to the LCC.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

James Long said:


> Cable companies operate under different laws than satellite and are REQUIRED to deliver local channels as part of their base packages. They are regulated under a quota system (instead of satellite's "carry one carry all" within each market rule). Small cable companies do not have to carry every local in their area, but modern cable companies have enough channels that most must offer carriage to every local channel to meet the quota.


NAB has been lobbying congress to drop STELA and end Directv's ability to carry distant channels. Maybe Directv should fight back by suggesting that they also end the requirement for cable to carry locals. Imagine if a company the size of Comcast started offering customers an LCC like device and let them opt out of locals?

I would imagine that Tivo could probably update their software to allow connecting a USB tuner, I'd love to pick my locals up OTA and save the $15 and change Mediacom charges me for locals!


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## Shad (May 29, 2007)

Four agents, at least 2 continents, and a solid hour on the phone..... No LCC available to Arkansas.


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

Question: no LCC for Arkansas ? but has your OTA guide data been upgraded yet to include all the OTA sub channel?

This could be the ****new**** reason, before it was it to be a Local Dispute (channel pulled). Now more have it avl
I ask as Omaha Nebraska not avl , and I tried for over an hour also. OTA guide data not updated yet.

Could be a pattern here.
To check your OTA guide data was updated head on over to the cutting edge web site, it has details there. iamedgecutter.com I think it is


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## Shad (May 29, 2007)

I live in Omaha too.... Omaha, Arkansas ha! I am in the Springfield, Missouri DMA and I don't think it has been updated.



scottchez said:


> Question: no LCC for Arkansas ? but has your OTA guide data been upgraded yet to include all the OTA sub channel?
> 
> This could be the ****new**** reason, before it was it to be a Local Dispute (channel pulled). Now more have it avl
> I ask as Omaha Nebraska not avl , and I tried for over an hour also. OTA guide data not updated yet.
> ...


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

sstv said:


> The LCC unit runs very hot


Please pull a couple of IDs from the LCC - just connect it to PC and run Device Manager to do that


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

jamieh1 said:


> Got my LCC today


Please pull a couple of IDs [VID&PID] from the LCC - just connect it to PC and run Device Manager to do that


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## sstv (Jul 30, 2006)

P Smith said:


> Please pull a couple of IDs from the LCC - just connect it to PC and run Device Manager to do that


I'am sorry, its working fine and I will leave well enough alone.

SSTV


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

Was wondering this morning if there is something to the idea the LCC may be quietly available in markets where the OTA guide data has been updated. So, I called the normal phone number at 8:45am today (800-531-5000).

At the prompts I indicated I wanted to add equipment. In about a minute I was connected to an agent. He had an accent (at least to me), but was very easy to understand. He knew what the LCC was with just one mention from me. All I said to him was I spotted it on their web site and would like to order one. In less than 10 minutes he was able to process the order. He even volunteered that there would be no charge and it would take 3 to 5 business days.

I was put on hold twice for about a minute or two. Once to check my receiver compatibility and again to check my signal strength. I did not ask him why he needed to do that, by the way.

I did ask him if I could get two LCC's (one for each DVR), and he said I did not need two - that one LCC will work for all of my equipment. Not wanting to upset the apple cart at that point, I left well enough alone. I thought that if I actually do get one, I can always call back to get another for my second DVR after telling them it's not showing up on both.

I'll keep you posted here on the progress of my order, and I'll also connect it to my PC and draw any info I can for us and post it here. I'll be sure to post pictures that include any identifying info as well.


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## Shad (May 29, 2007)

They ordered one for me very easily too and when I checked the order status five minutes later it had been canceled. This was just this morning via chat.



Athlon646464 said:


> Was wondering this morning if there is something to the idea the LCC may be quietly available in markets where the OTA guide data has been updated. So, I called the normal phone number at 8:45am today (800-531-5000).
> 
> At the prompts I indicated I wanted to add equipment. In about a minute I was connected to an agent. He had an accent (at least to me), but was very easy to understand. He knew what the LCC was with just one mention from me. All I said to him was I spotted it on their web site and would like to order one. In less than 10 minutes he was able to process the order. He even volunteered that there would be no charge and it would take 3 to 5 business days.
> 
> ...


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

Shad said:


> They ordered one for me very easily too and when I checked the order status five minutes later it had been canceled. This was just this morning via chat.


Oh well - Before I made the call I had low expectations. After the call I thought it was 50/50 I'd get one.

My order status page shows:

Order number: xxx
Order date: 06/06/2019 at 5:00:00 a.m. ET
Status: Canceled
TV
DIRECTV installation : Choice

There is no mention of an LCC. It also suggests I read the email they sent me for details. I have not received an email from them. Also - the order was cancelled nearly 4 hours before I placed it. 

While there, I decided to initiate a chat with them. Here's the transcript (I redacted my phone number):

AT&T : Hello! Thanks for choosing AT&T Chat.
Alex : Hello! My name is Alex . I'm happy to help!
Dave : Hello Alex
Alex : Hello, Dave.
Alex : I can help you with order details.
Alex : Can I get your U verse account number or phone number affiliated with your account?
Dave : About an hour ago I ordered an LCC by phone. I'm on the 'check your order' page here and it says my 'Change Order' has been cancelled
Dave : 508-xxx-xxxx
Alex : Thank you for information.
Dave : (DirecTV)
Dave : The message says to refer to a confirmation email, but I never received an email
Alex : You have reached to the U- verse Tech support let me refer you to the DIrect TV department.
Dave : ok
Alex : Please stay connected.
Alex : Thank you.
Cecil : Hi!
Dave : hello
Cecil : Hello, my name is Cecil. I noticed that you were speaking to another representative. Please bear with me a moment while I review your previous interaction, and I will be happy to assist you further.
Cecil : Nice to meet you! Dave
Cecil : I see that your LCC order was canceled. Am I correct?
Dave : Seems so, but I still want it
Cecil : I understand how you feel, I'm very sorry. I'm going to take care of this for you right now.
Cecil : I can help you with that!
Cecil : I see that you have already provided us with the contact information when you entered the chat. Is that the right number to reach you via phone or text with information about your AT&T and Directv service ?
Dave : yes
Cecil : Thank you for confirming! Dave
Cecil : Let me check your order status.
Cecil : By the way, how has the day been so far?
Dave : not bad at all, even better if I can actually get an LCC
Dave : and you?
Cecil : Sure. I can get it for you.
Cecil : I'm doing great!
Cecil : It's my Birthday 
Dave : Nice! Happy Birthday!!
Cecil : Thank you so much!
Cecil : I'm happy about your blessings 
Cecil : Please do not worry, I have checked our records and see that your order hasn't canceled. It is still in progress.
Dave : Great! Thank you!
Cecil : Your order will be received soon.
Dave : Awesome - have a great Birthday Cecil!
Cecil : I humbly requested our concern team to call you regarding the order status and help you with the installation process.
Cecil : I'm so happy about you :
Dave : Nice
Cecil : 
Cecil : Thank you!
Cecil : Shall I use the above contact number to reach you?
Dave : Yes
Cecil : Thank you! Dave
Cecil : We have a self help tool, use of support.directv.com or DIRECTV APP features to add value to DIRECTV (e.g. bill pay, account review, DIRECTV Everywhere, and scheduling recordings). Please visit AT&T Community forums using the following link : www.forums.att.com. I will send you an email article to troubleshoot this issue on your own, if need be.
Cecil : Just to recap, you came for LLC order and I have provided the order information and helped you with call. Is there anything else I can help you with? I'd be glad to assist.
Dave : No - that's it. Thank you again
Cecil : Thank you for being an AT&T customer.
Cecil : It's my pleasure do to this for you 
Cecil : Take care and have a blessed week for you and your loved ones! To close please click the '''''''X''''''' on this chat window.
Dave : cya


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## makaiguy (Sep 24, 2007)

Athlon646464 said:


> Dave : cya


Is that "See ya", or "covered your ass"?


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

makaiguy said:


> Is that "See ya", or "covered your ass"?


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## dod1450 (Dec 16, 2009)

sstv said:


> I'am sorry, its working fine and I will leave well enough alone.
> 
> SSTV


 Please provide this information. It will not hurt your configuration.


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

Exact same thing happened to me, same order screen and status
Tried Two orders. All auto canceled, never did show up.
Let us know if yours ever shows, I can reach back to them as I have an order number now, but is shows canceled.



Athlon646464 said:


> Oh well - Before I made the call I had low expectations. After the call I thought it was 50/50 I'd get one.
> 
> My order status page shows:
> 
> ...


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

Athlon646464 said:


> I did ask him if I could get two LCC's (one for each DVR), and he said I did not need two - that one LCC will work for all of my equipment. Not wanting to upset the apple cart at that point, I left well enough alone. I thought that if I actually do get one, I can always call back to get another for my second DVR after telling them it's not showing up on both.


Two? Where would you install both? Your equipment page says you have HR54, mini and HR24. The LCC only works on the HR44 and 54. Doesn't work on your HR24.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

dod1450 said:


> Please provide this information. It will not hurt your configuration.


No rush ... we can wait for Dave to get his and post the information.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

trh said:


> Two? Where would you install both? Your equipment page says you have HR54, mini and HR24. The LCC only works on the HR44 and 54. Doesn't work on your HR24.


Correct - it's why I didn't push it. My thinking is it will if and when it's officially released.



James Long said:


> No rush ... we can wait for Dave to get his and post the information.


 You sound more optimistic than I am.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

Athlon646464 said:


> Correct - it's why I didn't push it. My thinking is it will if and when it's officially released.


A couple of others have tried the LCC on their 24s already. And the LCC doesn't work with the current software on the 24. Will it in the future? Unknown. But the way DIRECTV is pushing the HS17 and clients, I wouldn't bet on it. How many years have the 24s been out of production now? 5?


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

trh said:


> A couple of others have tried the LCC on their 24s already. And the LCC doesn't work with the current software on the 24. Will it in the future? Unknown. But the way DIRECTV is pushing the HS17 and clients, I wouldn't bet on it. How many years have the 24s been out of production now? 5?


I hear you - just speculation on my part for sure.

Btw, no confirmation email, and the order is not listed on my account page.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

trh said:


> A couple of others have tried the LCC on their 24s already. And the LCC doesn't work with the current software on the 24. Will it in the future? Unknown. But the way DIRECTV is pushing the HS17 and clients, I wouldn't bet on it. How many years have the 24s been out of production now? 5?


I saw one person had tried it but had just connected it and expected it would pop up immediately like it does on the HR54. We need someone to try doing the red button restart with one connected and then go into the menu.

It probably doesn't work, if they haven't updated the HS17 software for it updating the HR2x software for it seems a stretch. But I'd say we should wait for someone to try doing it the "right" way before concluding it definitely won't work.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

slice1900 said:


> I saw one person had tried it but had just connected it and expected it would pop up immediately like it does on the HR54. We need someone to try doing the red button restart with one connected and then go into the menu.
> 
> It probably doesn't work, if they haven't updated the HS17 software for it updating the HR2x software for it seems a stretch. But I'd say we should wait for someone to try doing it the "right" way before concluding it definitely won't work.


I just added it to my to-do list for if I get one - will let everyone know.

I'll connect it to my PC first, then to my 24 before I install it on my 54.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

Just spotted an LCC on the bay - 'open box' - guy wants $140 plus $18 shipping for it.


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## dod1450 (Dec 16, 2009)

Athlon646464 said:


> Just spotted an LCC on the bay - 'open box' - guy wants $140 plus $18 shipping for it.


 What a rip off. DirecTV Local Channel Connector - Get OTA channels on your Genie Receiver | eBay


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## GekkoDBS (Dec 5, 2015)

Athlon646464 said:


> I hear you - just speculation on my part for sure.
> 
> Btw, no confirmation email, and the order is not listed on my account page.


Called retention, tri-state area, he stated he was unable to order it on the screen, sounded like he had no idea what it was, does it matter if we provide the model #?


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

GordonGekko said:


> Called retention, tri-state area, he stated he was unable to order it on the screen, sounded like he had no idea what it was, does it matter if we provide the model #?


That would help, but only if it's possible to get one anyway.


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## GekkoDBS (Dec 5, 2015)

Athlon646464 said:


> That would help, but only if it's possible to get one anyway.


 Thanks, what is the official LCC model #?


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

HoTat2 said:


> Remember folks ...
> 
> If you're going to try and call (or chat) DIRECTV for the LCC.
> 
> ...


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## sstv (Jul 30, 2006)

GordonGekko said:


> Thanks, what is the official LCC model #?


see posting 328


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

sstv said:


> see posting 328


Or look at the post just above yours - I quoted it there.


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## TXD16 (Oct 30, 2008)

Had to happen eventually: DirecTV Local Channel Connector - Get OTA channels on your Genie Receiver | eBay


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

TXD16 said:


> Had to happen eventually: DirecTV Local Channel Connector - Get OTA channels on your Genie Receiver | eBay


Yep. The third post in this thread referring to that attempt to sell an item DIRECTV ships for free.


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## palmgrower (Jul 18, 2011)

I just called Directv, spoke to "Vanessa". She told me I had to replace my C61K's with HR54's in order to be eligible for an LCC, WTF! I've never felt so let down by a CS Rep, with zero knowledge. On a new call......to be continued


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

James Long said:


> Yep. The third post in this thread referring to that attempt to sell an item DIRECTV ships for free.


Says $18.00 for shipping.


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## palmgrower (Jul 18, 2011)

New Call spoke to Sicily, she informed me that her supervisor Patrick said I could buy it at Best Buy or Walmart, WOW!


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## dod1450 (Dec 16, 2009)

palmgrower said:


> New Call spoke to Sicily, she informed me that her supervisor Patrick said I could buy it at Best Buy or Walmart, WOW!


First time I had heard that Best buy had it? What is the model number?


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

dod1450 said:


> First time I had heard that Best buy had it? What is the model number?












It is not being sold at BB. That CSR was very wrong.


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## palmgrower (Jul 18, 2011)

All the CSR's today have been worthless, everyone knows BB or Walmart doesn't sell it. It's the brushoff


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## AngryManMLS (Jan 30, 2014)

palmgrower said:


> New Call spoke to Sicily, she informed me that her supervisor Patrick said I could buy it at Best Buy or Walmart, WOW!


One time when I called the "CSR" directed me to Walmart.com and had me search for TV antennas. I was literally P.O.ed at that point and should of asked for the manager. Instead I got off the phone.


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## palmgrower (Jul 18, 2011)

Update
Spoke to Bessy "YouKnow", every other word was "YouKnow". She tried to help then switched me to Nica, by accident. Nica then handed me to Customer Loyalty Dept. A very nice person named Michael. A few minutes later and I have a confirmation number. Now I wait and see. Thanks Michael!


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

TheRatPatrol said:


> Says $18.00 for shipping.


DIRECTV is charging $18 for shipping? Or do you need to re-read my post where I state "an item DIRECTV ships for free".
(I was not claiming the eBay rip off attempt had free shipping.)


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

I had a CSR say the LCC is avl at all ATT Store. I said I went to all Three in my area and they said no AND they could not order one, only a CSR on the Phone can.
They then ordered me one, only to have the big ATT Computer auto cancel it 10 mins later.
This is getting funny but fun still . . .


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## wilbur_the_goose (Aug 16, 2006)

And D* wonders why they are losing thousands of clients


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

James Long said:


> DIRECTV is charging $18 for shipping? Or do you need to re-read my post where I state "an item DIRECTV ships for free".
> (I was not claiming the eBay rip off attempt had free shipping.)


Yeah I misread your post.

But I think we can all agree that this thing is not readily available yet.


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## dod1450 (Dec 16, 2009)

wilbur_the_goose said:


> And D* wonders why they are losing thousands of clients


 Here is a question. Why can't they just release the product to all? By doing this Satellite will be in sync with cable. Metv, startv and others that cable folks have access to?


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## poppo (Oct 10, 2006)

I called today because I lost a local channel. The 800 number tells you to press 8 if it is due to a local dispute. But pressing that basically landed me in the same "What can we help you with" prompt. I said "order equipment". Eventually someone answered. After several minutes, they said they "did not have access" to order it, and would have to transfer me to the loyalty department. After being on hold for a while, the loyalty dept guy ordered it and also gave me a $10 credit for the channel loss. Supposedly they are also going to overnight it. We shall see. I did get an e-mail confirmation.


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## palmgrower (Jul 18, 2011)

I did not get an email confirmation


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

palmgrower said:


> I did not get an email confirmation


Neither have I.


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

Agree
hey should just sell it on their web site like DIsh does for $30, would make money instead giving em away for free to just a few TV markets. Also I dont need their cheap antenna either, maybe sell if for $20 or better yet sell em on Amazon so I get 2nd day delivery right now please 
I thought ATT liked to make money.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

scottchez said:


> Agree
> hey should just sell it on their web site like DIsh does for $30, would make money instead giving em away for free to just a few TV markets. Also I dont need their cheap antenna either, maybe sell if for $20 or better yet sell em on Amazon so I get 2nd day delivery right now please
> I thought ATT liked to make money.


Non starter until it works on more than just the HR44 & HR54. It would cost them in their 'support' department. Can you imagine the phone calls?


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Athlon646464 said:


> Non starter until it works on more than just the HR44 & HR54. It would cost them in their 'support' department. Can you imagine the phone calls?


They could have it check the equipment on your account, and if you have an HR44/HR54 say "this device will only work on your Genie DVR" and if you don't say "this device currently isn't compatible with your equipment".

Though I agree if they want to make this really useful they need to put the driver in the H2x/HR2x and HS17 firmware image.


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

Thats how Dish does it, cant order it unless model is supported listed on your account.
For Amazon just but in big letters only works with HR44 and HR54 genie and how to check what model you have on the Info screen under settings.


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## poppo (Oct 10, 2006)

palmgrower said:


> I did not get an email confirmation


From my e-mail confirmation:

One-time DIRECTV charges








LCC + Indoor Antenna for Dispute $0.00
Prorated DIRECTV charges








Promotions/Discounts:
Programming Dispute $10 off for 1 mo ($10 Value) -$5.67


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## poppo (Oct 10, 2006)

Well, I did receive the LCC overnight. Setup was a breeze. The only problem is it is not showing my local ABC. I have a really good antenna and have no problem receiving it on my TV. Not a big deal at the moment because that is not the channel in dispute. But I would like to set up recordings using OTA to help with rain fade. Something I miss with my HR20s

<edit> I just ran the setup again, and I was then missing CBS too. Ran it one more time and now have ABC but no NBC or CBS. Ugh. BTW, ABC has 100% on the signal meter, so not sure why it was not found the first time or why the others are now gone (that were 100%).

Does it actually do a channel scan or just use the channels it sees in the database?

<edit 2> Rebooted the DVR (HR54-700) and did the setup one more time. Now all channels are there. Go figure.


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## makaiguy (Sep 24, 2007)

poppo said:


> Well, I did receive the LCC overnight. Setup was a breeze.
> 
> ...
> 
> <edit 2> Rebooted the DVR (HR54-700) and did the setup one more time. Now all channels are there. Go figure.


Thanks for reporting your experience.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

poppo said:


> Well, I did receive the LCC overnight.


Is there any chance to connect it to your PC and pull VID/PID info ?


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## poppo (Oct 10, 2006)

P Smith said:


> Is there any chance to connect it to your PC and pull VID/PID info ?


It's sort of buried behind everything and I don;t really want to pull it back out. And unless my Win 7 laptop already has some sort of drivers, it probably won't do anything.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

poppo said:


> And unless my Win 7 laptop already has some sort of drivers, it probably won't do anything.


Nope, nothing required - I did described the process...
OK, I'll do it again, only for you, because it "buried"


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Press Win+X
Select Device Manager
Find a branch in a tree Other Devices (with yellow triangle) or USB Controllers (at bottom of a tree)
Double click on it [Properties]
Click on a tab "Details"
Select in Property line "Hardware IDs"
Do right button mouse click on a value -> Copy
Paste it here (it should looks like "USB\VID_0BDA&PID_2838&REV_0100&MI_00")

Congrat ! You did that first. Done !


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

I was planning on doing that for sure, but my order was cancelled. Though it was 50/50 I'd get one after speaking to two people who insisted I would. Oh well.


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## poppo (Oct 10, 2006)

P Smith said:


> Press Win+X
> Select Device Manager
> Find a branch in a tree Other Devices (with yellow triangle) or USB Controllers (at bottom of a tree)
> Double click on it [Properties]
> ...


What I meant was the LCC was buried behind my AV equipment. But, I went ahead and did it.

It shows up under "Other Devices" USB ATSC Device.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Perfect ! Thanks ! You are the first in DTV fiorum here ! I'll make a special engraved medal for you! Soon … 

Now back to Search … if I could find same info for dish OTA adapters … to compare ...

So, EB1A is eMPIA Technology, Inc. ID
Rest of info we could pull, if one brave soul could gently open a cover of the LCC and reveal model of each major chip on its PCB ...


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## 242424 (Mar 22, 2012)

P Smith said:


> if one brave soul could gently pray a cover of the LCC


The power of prayer is strong but.... lol


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

hear you


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## palmgrower (Jul 18, 2011)

LCC never arrived


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

palmgrower said:


> LCC never arrived


bummer


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## palmgrower (Jul 18, 2011)

I'm on the phone with them now, it was never ordered.
Cuurently unavailable to me. Tech Support tells me I need to renew/2 year agreement in order to receive the LCC.....OH REALLY! And upgrade all my equipment....BUT I HAVE ALL THE EQUIPMENT! Losers all!


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

It's just a surrealism !


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## palmgrower (Jul 18, 2011)

Customer Rep's name is Lowanna.
Now they're back peddling, "oh I didn't say that"


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## palmgrower (Jul 18, 2011)

Supervisor Hugo told me not my market, see ya


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

What is the pattern to getting one? Pattern for approved Cities so others will know

Used to be only cities with a dispute going on but then some got a LCC even when no local dispute.
Is it now maybe the city also has to have all the otA guide data updated first with all the new sub channels?
Ideas?


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## armj1978 (Feb 8, 2009)

I don't think there is a pattern. They updated the database in my market a while ago and I got all the sub channels on my HR20's. Even then when I called, I was told I could not have one. As soon as a dispute with Fox and the CW resulted in them being removed, they sent me one without any resistance. After they verified that my OTA signals were strong enough to receive just those two channels though.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

scottchez said:


> What is the pattern to getting one? Pattern for approved Cities so others will know
> 
> Used to be only cities with a dispute going on but then some got a LCC even when no local dispute.
> Is it now maybe the city also has to have all the otA guide data updated first with all the new sub channels?
> Ideas?


I tried thinking it was the OTA data being updated, but it was a no go for me.

Reports of people getting them who live in an area without a dispute must be the result of one of these things:

1) They live in a disputed area according to the big computer in the sky so the order doesn't get cancelled
2) The sub doesn't know they live in a disputed area, so they say they don't here
3) They live in a test area and don't know they do so they don't report that here
4) Somehow they get lucky with a higher level CSR that can override the system
5) They pay $125 on Ebay


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

armj1978 said:


> they sent me one without any resistance


Are you that brave person who could open the LCC's cover and make pictures of PCB and chips ?


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

P Smith said:


> Are you that brave person who could open the LCC's cover and make pictures of PCB and chips ?


What would that provide?

You got someone to plug one into their computer to get that data. What does that tell us?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

P Smith said:


> Are you that brave person who could open the LCC's cover and make pictures of PCB and chips ?


The EE equivalent of porn? Show us your chips!


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## glrush (Jun 29, 2002)

I called again today and this time I was successful in ordering an LCC. Our local Fox affiliate (KFXA) here in Eastern Iowa (Cedar Rapids DMA) has been out for about a month due to a dispute and when I called a couple of weeks ago, it was not available in my area. Today, they had me go to a web site (signalstrength.directv.com) and verify my signal strength was adequate. I live pretty close to the towers so I was all green. 

She told me it should be here in 2-4 business days.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Interesting that they have a web site to qualify people - probably linked to tvfool or similar. I tried it at home where I know reception would be a problem since I'm in a low area (I don't have Directv there since I have huge oak trees in my yard) and it correctly showed the signal would be weak on several of my locals.


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## glrush (Jun 29, 2002)

This is what is on the "My Orders" page. It says my order status is complete. I also got a conformation e-mail: 
*
Item Description* *Price* *Quantity* *Total*
Local Channel Connector with Antenna (Customer Owned) Free 1 Free
Seasonal Sports Condition Free 1 Free
Attorney General Settlement LiL Disclosures Free 1 Free
Seasonal Sports Condition Free 1 Free
Local Channel Connector with Antenna (Customer Owned) Free 1 Free
*Delivery and Handling* Free
*Tax* $0.00
*Order Total* $0.00


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## JoeTheDragon (Jul 21, 2008)

Seasonal Sports Condition Free???


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## jamieh1 (May 1, 2003)

My LCC when watching over the air. The audio skips and pops. Revert back to the AM21 and it’s normal.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

jamieh1 said:


> My LCC when watching over the air. The audio skips and pops. Revert back to the AM21 and it's normal.


Using the same antenna for both?


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

Well, y'all can thank me soon. I'm sure that because I just bought an AM-21 on Ebay ($43 including shipping) they'll release the LCC any day now.



There's a sub-channel in our market with a couple of shows we'd like to tape once in a while - just couldn't wait any longer.


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## palmgrower (Jul 18, 2011)

Thank you Athlon646464


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## sstv (Jul 30, 2006)

Hi All
I have had my LCC for awhile and it has worked just fine. I have a good outdoor ant. and the LCC picks up the same amount of channels as the TV when the TV is hooked to the outdoor ant. Its a set and forget item. You don't see it, its tucked in behind the TV. Use and enjoy.
SSTV


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Athlon646464 said:


> Well, y'all can thank me soon. I'm sure that because I just bought an AM-21 on Ebay ($43 including shipping) they'll release the LCC any day now.


Wow, the prices have really dropped. After the AM21 was discontinued and people were paying insane prices for them on eBay, I sold them all for $150/ea plus sold off all but one of my H24s, then bought more H20s to replace them at an average price of about $30/ea


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

slice1900 said:


> Wow, the prices have really dropped.


Yup - it's why I jumped on it.


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## glrush (Jun 29, 2002)

I did receive my LCC via FedEx in only one day after ordering it. Setup was a snap and I was up and running quickly. I am close enough to the broadcast towers where I live that an indoor antenna works good for me so I used the one that that was connected to the AM-21. Works great and have had no issues. I have a buddy that lives in Cedar Rapids that ordered on after I told him I got mine so at least here in Eastern Iowa it seems they will ship them to you due to the retransmission fight with the local Fox station.


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## sstv (Jul 30, 2006)

glrush said:


> I did receive my LCC via FedEx in only one day after ordering it. Setup was a snap and I was up and running quickly. I am close enough to the broadcast towers where I live that an indoor antenna works food for me so I used the one that that was connected to the AM-21. Works great and have had no issues. I have a buddy that lives in Cedar Rapids that ordered on after I told him I got mine so at least here in Eastern Iowa it seems they will ship them to you due to the retransmission fight with the local Fox station.


Its nice to hear from eastern Iowa, I lived in Cedar Rapids in the early 60's. I worked for Sq D and they sent me to Dallas. Nicest thing anybody ever done for me. Whats a snow shovel ? 
SSTV


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## HarryG (Jul 9, 2007)

If the LCC is hooked up to the HR54, are you limited to viewing locals only on the Genie, or are you also able to view live local programming from the LCC on the 4K client (C61K) as well?

After scanning for channels does the program guide continue to list the normally provided Directv designated local channel, (ie. Channel 9) as well as ALL of the affiliates subchannels (is. 9-1, 9-2, 9-3, etc,)?


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## NashGuy (Jan 30, 2014)

slice1900 said:


> Wow, the prices have really dropped. After the AM21 was discontinued and people were paying insane prices for them on eBay, I sold them all for $150/ea plus sold off all but one of my H24s, then bought more H20s to replace them at an average price of about $30/ea


Genie arbitrage


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## grover517 (Sep 29, 2007)

HarryG said:


> If the LCC is hooked up to the HR54, are you limited to viewing locals only on the Genie, or are you also able to view live local programming from the LCC on the 4K client (C61K) as well?
> 
> After scanning for channels does the program guide continue to list the normally provided Directv designated local channel, (ie. Channel 9) as well as ALL of the affiliates subchannels (is. 9-1, 9-2, 9-3, etc,)?


Yes, you can watch locals on the mini since it is actually using a tuner on the HR54 and is just relaying it to the min and Yes, you get sub channels as well. With that said, depending on the database, you may or may not get all the current sub channels available. I have a few missing via the dongle that I get if I scan directly from my TV.


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## R0am3r (Sep 20, 2008)

My local [Syracuse] PBS station [WCNY] and three subchannels are missing from the LCC list. Is there a way to manually add subchannels?

My original post included another channel but it has since been added. I reran the antenna setup and was surprised to see the missing channels for WSPX in the list. Maybe the LCC list is a work in progress.


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## jamieh1 (May 1, 2003)

i have had my lcc for about 3 weeks, when watching local channels the audio is popping and a skip every few seconds. 
my am21 does not do this. Ive contacted Directv and they are sending me another LCC so hope this one does not do this.


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## codespy (Mar 30, 2006)

slice1900 said:


> Wow, the prices have really dropped. After the AM21 was discontinued and people were paying insane prices for them on eBay, I sold them all for $150/ea plus sold off all but one of my H24s, then bought more H20s to replace them at an average price of about $30/ea


I know! I had about 6 extra brand new AM2x's from DirecTV, listed a few on eBay a couple years ago with no reserve, at like a $10 starting bid for a 10 day listing. The highest sale I had went for $306.00 to a guy in Florida. The others went for $200-$250. That supply/demand thing I learned in Economics in High School in the 80's paid off dividends! :tearsofjoy:


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

codespy said:


> I know! I had about 6 extra brand new AM2x's from DirecTV, listed a few on eBay a couple years ago with no reserve, at like a $10 starting bid for a 10 day listing. The highest sale I had went for $306.00 to a guy in Florida. The others went for $200-$250. That supply/demand thing I learned in Economics in High School in the 80's paid off dividends! :tearsofjoy:


I just did buy it now at a little less than the higher prices I'd seen, and offered a deal on shipping if they ordered more than one. I was able to sell them all in just two orders. I'm lazy and didn't want to ship them to seven different places


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## NR4P (Jan 16, 2007)

jamieh1 said:


> i have had my lcc for about 3 weeks, when watching local channels the audio is popping and a skip every few seconds.
> my am21 does not do this. Ive contacted Directv and they are sending me another LCC so hope this one does not do this.


You have been lucky not to ever have experienced this with the AM21 over the years. Long standing known issues. Typically on 1080i stations, rarely on 720p or 480i subchannels. It can start 10 mins after watching a show or an hour. Audio pops and skips have been a long standing issue for past 2 years with AM21's. Also video frame drop during fast action (like long pass of a football on TV) is another known issue along with audio problems. Known solutions to both: a) record the show, no pops or skips on playback or b) press pause, wait 1 second and press play and audio will be fine.

Let us know how the second LCC performs.
If you still think the first one has a problem, I will gladly take it off your hands. Confident we can work out costs via PM.
Good luck.


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## sstv (Jul 30, 2006)

jamieh1 said:


> i have had my lcc for about 3 weeks, when watching local channels the audio is popping and a skip every few seconds.
> my am21 does not do this. Ive contacted Directv and they are sending me another LCC so hope this one does not do this.


My LCC sometimes has a "clipping" sound and that could be corrected by hitting "pause" on the remote for a second or two. the clip would be gone when I resumed, this gives a slight delay. I think it's a buffer problem.
SSTV


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## dtv757 (Jun 4, 2006)

Sorry if answered already but does LCC work with genie 2

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


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## cpalmer2k (May 24, 2010)

Those of you who got a LCC through the chat how which option did you select? Technical support? We lost our CBS and another local station to a dispute this morning.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

dtv757 said:


> Sorry if answered already but does LCC work with genie 2
> 
> Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


My understanding is 'No' on the HS17. 'Yes' on the HR44 & HR54.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

cpalmer2k said:


> Those of you who got a LCC through the chat how which option did you select? Technical support? We lost our CBS and another local station to a dispute this morning.


Look for my posts in this thread starting at #402. I detail a phone call and a chat session. Although I didn't get one because there aren't any stations in dispute where I live, the info in those posts should help you.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

dtv757 said:


> Sorry if answered already but does LCC work with genie 2
> 
> Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


no. at least not yet.


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## cpalmer2k (May 24, 2010)

Athlon646464 said:


> Look for my posts in this thread starting at #402. I detail a phone call and a chat session. Although I didn't get one because there aren't any stations in dispute where I live, the info in those posts should help you.


Thanks. I had scrolled back but not quite far enough. I just did two chats with DirecTV in the last hour. The first guy knew what the LCC was, but couldn't order it and said he had put in a request to a "dedicated team" who would call me back. I waited about 20 minutes and did another chat. This time the guy knew what it was, and said he could order it for me, but there would be a charge so he wanted to transfer me to a loyalty team to get it ordered without a charge. He transferred me in the chat to another agent who seemed to know what the LCC was, and said she had ordered and sent me one that I would receive in 2-4 days. She gave me a confirmation #, but I didn't get any kind of order e-mail or anything. My account has been "migrated" to the new AT&T site which is pretty much useless, so I have no way of seeing anything on there. All three people were able to identify that our area was in a dispute, but none of them asked any questions to "qualify" my address or anything. I guess I will see what happens in 2-4 days?


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## jamieh1 (May 1, 2003)

cpalmer2k said:


> Those of you who got a LCC through the chat how which option did you select? Technical support? We lost our CBS and another local station to a dispute this morning.


I got my first one from just calling in and asking for one. No disputes of locals in my area.

I had some audio popping and jumpy vid so got on chat and ask if could be replaced. They sent me another one. This one does the same thing. if you hit the jump back button the audio and vid problem goes away, maybe will be fixed in the future.

In a lot of markets today stations were lost owned by NEXSTAR. So people can prob call in and get a LCC now.


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## cpalmer2k (May 24, 2010)

Yep we’re in a Nexstar area. Based on their press release it implies no negotiations will occur until the 12th so we could be in for the long haul


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

cpalmer2k said:


> Thanks. I had scrolled back but not quite far enough. I just did two chats with DirecTV in the last hour. The first guy knew what the LCC was, but couldn't order it and said he had put in a request to a "dedicated team" who would call me back. I waited about 20 minutes and did another chat. This time the guy knew what it was, and said he could order it for me, but there would be a charge so he wanted to transfer me to a loyalty team to get it ordered without a charge. He transferred me in the chat to another agent who seemed to know what the LCC was, and said she had ordered and sent me one that I would receive in 2-4 days. She gave me a confirmation #, but I didn't get any kind of order e-mail or anything. My account has been "migrated" to the new AT&T site which is pretty much useless, so I have no way of seeing anything on there. All three people were able to identify that our area was in a dispute, but none of them asked any questions to "qualify" my address or anything. I guess I will see what happens in 2-4 days?


Log into your ATT account. At the top left, near the Death Star logo, click 'Shop and support'. 'Check order status' is near the bottom of the list you will see there. (This is how it looks on my desk top PC.)

During my conversations with them, they always put me on hold to check OTA 'signal strength' in my area.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

jamieh1 said:


> I had some audio popping and jumpy vid so got on chat and ask if could be replaced. They sent me another one. This one does the same thing. if you hit the jump back button the audio and vid problem goes away, maybe will be fixed in the future.


Video can be a bit choppy for me with my AM-21 connected to my HR54 as well. Audio seems okay. All is good when watching a recorded program or pausing and restarting live, however.


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## VARTV (Dec 14, 2006)

jamieh1 said:


> i have had my lcc for about 3 weeks, when watching local channels the audio is popping and a skip every few seconds.
> my am21 does not do this. Ive contacted Directv and they are sending me another LCC so hope this one does not do this.


I had previously scheduled an install today for an HR54 from an old setup I had. I turn on the TV, and NBC and FOX are off. I just ordered a LCC and hope I don't run into any problems.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

VARTV said:


> How can you connect an AM21 to the HR54?


USB


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## glrush (Jun 29, 2002)

I called in to and said "speak with agent" and when the prompt said about what I said "local channel connector". Spoke with a very sharp CSR who got me a LCC in one day. As mentioned, they will ask you to check your signal strength at this website signalstrength.directv.com so be prepared for that or check it before you ask.


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## armj1978 (Feb 8, 2009)

cpalmer2k said:


> Those of you who got a LCC through the chat how which option did you select? Technical support? We lost our CBS and another local station to a dispute this morning.


When I lost Fox and the CW, I got a regular representative initially. They knew what I needed and confirmed that I could have one but then stated they could not order it. They transferred me to tech support and they ordered the LCC for me. So I believe it is only tech support and retention that can order them.


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## armj1978 (Feb 8, 2009)

P Smith said:


> Are you that brave person who could open the LCC's cover and make pictures of PCB and chips ?





James Long said:


> The EE equivalent of porn? Show us your chips!


Okay, here is some 4th of July chip porn for you...









On a side note, I did snag 0xbbd last night for my HR24 to see if the LCC would work on it with that firmware. The LCC still does not work with my HR24, even with the latest firmware.


----------



## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

armj1978 said:


> Okay, here is some 4th of July chip porn for you...
> View attachment 29977
> 
> 
> On a side note, I did snag 0xbbd last night for my HR24 to see if the LCC would work on it with that firmware. The LCC still does not work with my HR24, even with the latest firmware.


I'm guessing the tuner chip is probably under that shield. Any chance of removing it so we can see what they're using?

The chip in the upper left is the USB interface. Not sure what the two middle chips are.


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## armj1978 (Feb 8, 2009)

slice1900 said:


> I'm guessing the tuner chip is probably under that shield. Any chance of removing it so we can see what they're using?
> 
> The chip in the upper left is the USB interface. Not sure what the two middle chips are.


Shield removed


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

The chip in the middle right marked RFHIC AD211 is an amplifier and two way splitter (front end stage) so I guess it must have two separate signal paths. The two pairs of chips to its left seem too small to be anything digital (and I can't make out their markings)

I don't recognize the logo on the two larger ones in the middle. Maxim makes ADCs with part numbers ending in 1237, maybe these are some Chinese clone? Since this tuner doesn't interpret the ATSC signal at all, it simply needs to digitize it and pass the data through USB.

So if you have the front end handling the amplification and splitting, and the two ADCs as the backend, the middle section would be for baseband downconversion and filtering to the 6 MHz channel width.

Not sure how common this sort of 'building block' design is versus using more integrated tuner chips. I guess it must be cheaper building it like this when you have only two tuners.


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## Whammer1249 (Nov 29, 2010)

DirecTV wound up i n a dispute with our local channels, and has offed us an antennae and LCC. Would using that in any way jeopardize my being grandfathered with the distant networks?


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

Whammer1249 said:


> DirecTV wound up i n a dispute with our local channels, and has offed us an antennae and LCC. Would using that in any way jeopardize my being grandfathered with the distant networks?


If they order an LCC its just like them ordering a new piece of equipment or a new remote it won't make any programming changes. You should be able to keep the DNS stations you already have.


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## sstv (Jul 30, 2006)

Hi All
My LCC had a hicup. I went to a local channel, 11.1 in this case,and the top banner would show up but the screen was blank. Channel up or down would bring up a working channel but 11.1 was a bummer. I checked my favorites and 11.1 was checked. I changed inputs on the TV to TV, which is my std. outdoor ant and 11.1 is fine. did a local scan and still no 11.1. I RBR the system and 11.1 came back.
I called DTV to see if this is a common error and after the usual interrogation they sent me another LCC which is setting in the corner unopened. Now I got two LCC'S and the problem has not returned so I guess I have two workin LCC's.
SSTV


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## VARTV (Dec 14, 2006)

sstv said:


> Now I got two LCC'S and the problem has not returned so I guess I have two workin LCC's.
> SSTV


By error, I too, will have two LCCs...


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## VARTV (Dec 14, 2006)

armj1978 said:


> On a side note, I did snag 0xbbd last night for my HR24 to see if the LCC would work on it with that firmware. The LCC still does not work with my HR24, even with the latest firmware.


Is it the HR24 doesn't "see" a tuner is connected? Would love to see this work...


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

New Dispute according to NorthPine News.
This means everyone in these markets can now order the LCC and get it for free.
Could be more markets not listed.


Bismarck-Minot: KXMB-CBS and KXMA-CW
Davenport: WHBF-CBS and KGCW-CW
Des Moines: WOI-ABC and KCWI-CW
Green Bay: WFRV-CBS
La Crosse: WLAX-FOX
Marquette: WJMN-CBS
Rapid City: KCLO-CBS
Sioux City: KCAU-ABC
Sioux Falls: KELO-CBS


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## VARTV (Dec 14, 2006)

scottchez said:


> New Dispute according to NorthPine News.
> This means everyone in these markets can now order the LCC and get it for free.
> Could be more markets not listed.
> 
> ...


These are Nexstar stations, I believe...


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## dod1450 (Dec 16, 2009)

VARTV said:


> These are Nexstar stations, I believe...


Because the current problem with Nextar. I am finally receiving one LCC for the San Francisco area.

Qty Description

1 Local Channel Connector with Antenna (Customer Owned) $0.00


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## armj1978 (Feb 8, 2009)

Whammer1249 said:


> DirecTV wound up i n a dispute with our local channels, and has offed us an antennae and LCC. Would using that in any way jeopardize my being grandfathered with the distant networks?


No, I have ABC, NBC and CBS with the west coast feeds grandfathered. They only base it in what is going on currently with your locals. It is funny though, FOX and the CW were the two that contested the distant claim back in the day, so I do not have those, only the big three. And those are the two that are in a dispute right now. They send you the LCC and list it as customer owned, so it is not even recorded on your account that you have it except in the order history.


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## armj1978 (Feb 8, 2009)

VARTV said:


> Is it the HR24 doesn't "see" a tuner is connected? Would love to see this work...


I initially tried it by plugging it in and running initial setup. When it downloaded the guide info it went back to the antenna setup screen and edit off-air channels was still dark. So then I actually hooked the antenna into it and restarted the 24. When it came back up, i re-ran initial setup and again back to the antenna setup screen and edit off-air channels was still dark. So it does not even recognize it. I know that ATT hinted a while back that they were going to start working on the HR20-HR24 firmware again, but there have been only two new releases since the survey to determine interest in testing. So maybe they will add it at some point, but I won't hold my breath.


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## armj1978 (Feb 8, 2009)

scottchez said:


> New Dispute according to NorthPine News.
> This means everyone in these markets can now order the LCC and get it for free.
> Could be more markets not listed.
> 
> ...


Have these networks been turned off? When they started with the warnings, but the channels were still on, I called and always got a hard no. One retention rep even directly said "Call back when the channels get pulled and we'll get you one the next day." That was the trigger, they day they were pulled, I called and got one with a five minute call. And they sent it out standard overnight.


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## NashGuy (Jan 30, 2014)

LOTS of Nexstar local stations around the nation. I believe they're the 2nd-largest group behind Sinclair. Looks like AT&T is gonna be handing out those LCCs like candy on Halloween over the next week. Now's your chance to get one free if you want one!

List of stations owned or operated by Nexstar Media Group - Wikipedia


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

NashGuy said:


> LOTS of Nexstar local stations around the nation. I believe they're the 2nd-largest group behind Sinclair. Looks like AT&T is gonna be handing out those LCCs like candy on Halloween over the next week. Now's your chance to get one free if you want one!
> 
> List of stations owned or operated by Nexstar Media Group - Wikipedia


It is only the stations OWNED by Nexstar, not the ones operated by them, that went dark.


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## NashGuy (Jan 30, 2014)

slice1900 said:


> It is only the stations OWNED by Nexstar, not the ones operated by them, that went dark.


OK. But that's the vast majority of the stations listed at that Wikipedia link I posted. Note the "owned since" column there. If it has a footnote number as opposed to an actual year, then it's only operated, but not actually owned, by Nexstar.


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## bjdotson (Feb 20, 2007)

I have two stations in Salt Lake City; the ABC and the CW
My wife and I have zero shows that we watch on ABC; I watch Supernatural on the CW but they are out of season. I have HR24s so an LCC won't do me any good.


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## philherz (May 3, 2008)

Here in Western NY, we lost 2 NEXSTAR channels today, so I thought I'd chat to see if they'd send me an LCC.

Sorry for a very basic question, but I've been reading this thread for quite a while and haven't seen if an LCC comes with an antenna?


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

philherz said:


> Here in Western NY, we lost 2 NEXSTAR channels today, so I thought I'd chat to see if they'd send me an LCC.
> 
> Sorry for a very basic question, but I've been reading this thread for quite a while and haven't seen if an LCC comes with an antenna?


It does. You can use a larger one if you need to as well.


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## dtv757 (Jun 4, 2006)

trh said:


> no. at least not yet.


Anything compatible with genie 2 ? Am21? I tried calling and yea error placing order cause it's not compatible

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


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## grover517 (Sep 29, 2007)

armj1978 said:


> No, I have ABC, NBC and CBS with the west coast feeds grandfathered. They send you the LCC and list it as customer owned, so it is not even recorded on your account that you have it except in the order history.


 Mine is also listed under my equipment/accessories section on the ATT site.


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## sstv (Jul 30, 2006)

philherz said:


> Here in Western NY, we lost 2 NEXSTAR channels today, so I thought I'd chat to see if they'd send me an LCC.
> 
> Sorry for a very basic question, but I've been reading this thread for quite a while and haven't seen if an LCC comes with an antenna?


Yes it does, its a flat wingard
sstv


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## danny baker (Jan 30, 2018)

sstv said:


> Yes it does, its a flat wingard
> sstv


I gave up and ordered a hr54-700, tech support said i could use it and send my hr17 back..found new hr54 for 108.00 
when i get it and installed with try to see if i can get llc.


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## R0am3r (Sep 20, 2008)

armj1978 said:


> Shield removed
> View attachment 29978


The middle chips look like the MStar MSB1237 RF Demodulator. I found a reference to it in an ATSC teardown of a converter box as well as several vendor sites. Unfortunately, I can't find a datasheet of the chip.


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

danny baker said:


> I gave up and ordered a hr54-700, tech support said i could use it and send my hr17 back..found new hr54 for 108.00
> when i get it and installed with try to see if i can get llc.


As long as your account has an active HR44 or an HR54 their ordering system will allow the rep to order an LCC for a customer in a disputed market.



dtv757 said:


> Anything compatible with genie 2 ? Am21? I tried calling and yea error placing order cause it's not compatible.


After searching online I found I this, this, and this so the short answer is no the AM21 will not work with Genie 2. I also found iamanedgecutter's pre-release testing Genie 2 PDF review via Google Search and even that says AM21 is not compatible.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

dtv757 said:


> Anything compatible with genie 2 ? Am21? I tried calling and yea error placing order cause it's not compatible
> Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


HS17 isn't Ota capable. Speculation that the firmware could be updated to allow the LCC, but unknown if that will happen or when.


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## armj1978 (Feb 8, 2009)

grover517 said:


> Mine is also listed under my equipment/accessories section on the ATT site.


Yep, you're right, I did not even look under accessories but it is listed there on the old Directv site also. So I guess they are keeping track of how many they send out and to who.


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## The1Sandman (Jul 8, 2019)

I'm in a disputed area. Rep originally had me go to locast. I had to convince the rep that the Springfield DMA is different than the Boston DMA. She ordered me an LCC, then when I called on Friday to get the tracking number, it was cancelled for some reason. The rep then reordered it. Hopefully it arrives today.


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## dtv757 (Jun 4, 2006)

The1Sandman said:


> I'm in a disputed area. Rep originally had me go to locast. I had to convince the rep that the Springfield DMA is different than the Boston DMA. She ordered me an LCC, then when I called on Friday to get the tracking number, it was cancelled for some reason. The rep then reordered it. Hopefully it arrives today.


What kind of box do u use ? Similar happened to me. But we determined LCC not compatible with genie 2 system

And that's why order failed

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


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## The1Sandman (Jul 8, 2019)

dtv757 said:


> What kind of box do u use ? Similar happened to me. But we determined LCC not comparable with genie 2 system
> 
> And that's why order failed
> 
> Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


I have the Genie 2 as well.


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## danny baker (Jan 30, 2018)

Genie 2 will not work with am 21 , i have tried , that is why i got the hr54 .


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## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

danny baker said:


> I gave up and ordered a hr54-700, tech support said i could use it and send my hr17 back..found new hr54 for 108.00
> when i get it and installed with try to see if i can get llc.


ATT almost certainly will not activate the HR54


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## danny baker (Jan 30, 2018)

Had phone conversation with Dtv tech support. She stated that as long as the hr54 didn’t come from an disputed account, then they would activate it and I could return the 17. But time will tell .


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## danny baker (Jan 30, 2018)

Btw it is a new receiver


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## makaiguy (Sep 24, 2007)

Nexstar dispute area here too (Augusta GA). Spent far too long on chat last night trying to get an LCC. First "chatter" had no idea what it was, but eventually xferred me to someone that seemed to know what he was doing. Said he placed the order at no charge and I'd have it in two business days.

Now today I check the order online (their friggin' website is slow as molasses in January) and it shows only a canceled order with a time stamp many hours earlier than the chat. I have an HR-44 that the LCC is supposed to work with.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

makaiguy said:


> Nexstar dispute area here too (Augusta GA). Spent far too long on chat last night trying to get an LCC. First "chatter" had no idea what it was, but eventually xferred me to someone that seemed to know what he was doing. Said he placed the order at no charge and I'd have it in two business days.
> 
> Now today I check the order online (their friggin' website is slow as molasses in January) and it shows only a canceled order with a time stamp many hours earlier than the chat. I have an HR-44 that the LCC is supposed to be work with.


I too am caught up with this dispute and have lost three channels so I ordered a LCC today. I called the Protection Plan number and got a stateside CSR. It took awhile for her computer to bring up the info so she could order the LCC but she made it happen. I just checked my AT&T/DIRECTV account and experienced the same issues you describe. As far as I'm concerned the AT&T website is like breasts on a Nun and testicles on a Priest...Totally useless!!!


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## makaiguy (Sep 24, 2007)

Tried calling rather than chatting today. Front line could not order an LCC because, if I understood her correctly, my account had been converted to ATT and the ATT system did not provide this option. They are just as screwed up as we all knew they would be when they took over DIRECTV. I wouldn't take no for an answer and finally she connected me to tech support, where "Mel" was able to put in the order (he said). He gave me an order number which at least shows up on my online account and does not at this point indicate it's been canceled. We'll see if I actually get an LCC. 

I think it's more likely that they'll settle with Nexstar first, and I'll miss my chance at being able to get all those subchannels.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

makaiguy said:


> Nexstar dispute area here too (Augusta GA). Spent far too long on chat last night trying to get an LCC. First "chatter" had no idea what it was, but eventually xferred me to someone that seemed to know what he was doing. Said he placed the order at no charge and I'd have it in two business days.
> 
> Now today I check the order online (their friggin' website is slow as molasses in January) and it shows only a canceled order with a time stamp many hours earlier than the chat. I have an HR-44 that the LCC is supposed to be work with.


Yup - when my orders were cancelled the time stamp was never correct - years, days and times were way off.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

danny baker said:


> Btw it is a new receiver


An HR54 for $108? No way it's 'new'.


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## makaiguy (Sep 24, 2007)

MysteryMan said:


> Called the Protection Plan number and got a stateside CSR.


 Wish I'd thought to do that... I should get SOME benefit for that 9 bucks I've been pissing down a hole each month.


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## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

Athlon646464 said:


> An HR54 for $108? No way it's 'new'.


ATT will now only activate receivers bought from ATT


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

texasbrit said:


> ATT will now only activate receivers bought from ATT


Exactly my point - he said he bought an HR54 for $108 and that they will activate it for him because it's new. No way it's new.


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## philherz (May 3, 2008)

So, I was promised an LCC and a $10 refund on Saturday and quickly rec'd 2 confirming emails.

Today, when I go to a page titled "Let’s find your order" and put in the order confirmation# and zip code, it says "Hmm ... that doesn't look like the right order number. Learn how to find it." (I have an HR-54-200)

Does that mean it's been canceled?

Am I looking in the wrong location?


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## dod1450 (Dec 16, 2009)

philherz said:


> So, I was promised an LCC and a $10 refund on Saturday and quickly rec'd 2 confirming emails.
> 
> Today, when I go to a page titled "Let's find your order" and put in the order confirmation# and zip code, it says "Hmm ... that doesn't look like the right order number. Learn how to find it." (I have an HR-54-200)
> 
> ...


 Did you received a tracking number? I had to call to get mine


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## philherz (May 3, 2008)

No tracking number with the confirming email.

When you called for a tracking number, did that wake them up to actually send an LCC out or was it already "on the way?"


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

philherz said:


> Today, when I go to a page titled "Let's find your order" and put in the order confirmation# and zip code, it says "Hmm ... that doesn't look like the right order number. Learn how to find it." (I have an HR-54-200)
> 
> Does that mean it's been canceled?
> 
> Am I looking in the wrong location?


Log into your ATT account. At the top left, near the Death Star logo, click 'Shop and support'. 'Check order status' is near the bottom of the list you will see there. (This is how it looks on my desk top PC.)


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

My LCC that I ordered yesterday arrived this morning via FedEx. Nice touch having it shipped overnight.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

MysteryMan said:


> My LCC that I ordered yesterday arrived this morning via FedEx. Nice touch having it shipped overnight.


Congrats! I'm jealous....


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## makaiguy (Sep 24, 2007)

makaiguy said:


> ... she connected me to tech support, where "Mel" was able to put in the order (he said). He gave me an order number which at least shows up on my online account and does not at this point indicate it's been canceled. We'll see if I actually get an LCC.


"Mel" said he'd send a confirming text. So far, neither text nor confirming email received. I DID receive a text this morning, though, asking me to rate my experience with Mel. Think I'll wait to see how things shake out before replying.

Order at least still not shown online as canceled this time, although the only description is ":Choice" so I really don't know what it represents. If/when it ever gets here, I'll be opening up a surprise package.







The Manage button goes nowhere ..


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## tsduke (Mar 20, 2007)

Lost my local fox so thought I'd try calling for an LCC. Supposedly on order, but I can't see from details that it's actually what I'm getting.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

makaiguy said:


> "Mel" said he'd send a confirming text. So far, neither text nor confirming email received. I DID receive a text this morning, though, asking me to rate my experience with Mel. Think I'll wait to see how things shake out before replying.
> 
> Order at least still not shown online as canceled this time, although the only description is ":Choice" so I really don't know what it represents. If/when it ever gets here, I'll be opening up a surprise package.
> View attachment 29985
> The Manage button goes nowhere ..


My cancelled orders showed 'Choice'. Looks like your order is in better shape than mine was.


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## Shad (May 29, 2007)

I actually had an LCC delivered today. Kinda like Sasquatch knocking on the door and asking to come in.


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## philherz (May 3, 2008)

Athlon646464 said:


> Log into your ATT account. At the top left, near the Death Star logo, click 'Shop and support'. 'Check order status' is near the bottom of the list you will see there. (This is how it looks on my desk top PC.)


Yup, still says that the order can't be found, but it arrived by UPS anyway.

A little surprised that they don't even bother taping the box shut, but it looks like everything is there.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

philherz said:


> Yup, still says that the order can't be found, but it arrived by UPS anyway.
> 
> A little surprised that they don't even bother taping the box shut, but it looks like everything is there.


Congrats!


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## philherz (May 3, 2008)

I guess all the parts arrived OK. I hooked it up and now have CBS back!

(Instructions are pretty bare-bones)


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## Indiana627 (Nov 18, 2005)

Received my LCC on Tuesday as I'm now without 3 locals (ABC, NBC and FOX) due to disputes. I connected it to my HR54 and ran the setup. Am I correct in thinking the LCC works just like the AM21 did in that it does not actually scan for available OTA signals, but instead it only gives you the OTA channels D* puts in their database based on your ZIP code you enter during the LCC setup process?

Imagine my disappointment that after running the LCC setup it returned only my CBS channel - CBS is the one local I still get via satellite! The 3 locals that I've lost on satellite (ABC, NBC and FOX) did not show up after the LCC setup was complete. WTF? I thought the whole point of the LCC was so I could receive these disputed channels via OTA but D* doesn't have them in their database for my ZIP?


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

Indiana627 said:


> Received my LCC on Tuesday as I'm now without 3 locals (ABC, NBC and FOX) due to disputes. I connected it to my HR54 and ran the setup. Am I correct in thinking the LCC works just like the AM21 did in that it does not actually scan for available OTA signals, but instead it only gives you the OTA channels D* puts in their database based on your ZIP code you enter during the LCC setup process?
> 
> Imagine my disappointment that after running the LCC setup it returned only my CBS channel - CBS is the one local I still get via satellite! The 3 locals that I've lost on satellite (ABC, NBC and FOX) did not show up after the LCC setup was complete. WTF? I thought the whole point of the LCC was so I could receive these disputed channels via OTA but D* doesn't have them in their database for my ZIP?


How many stations do you receive if you connect the antenna you have connected to your LCC directly to your TV?


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## Indiana627 (Nov 18, 2005)

Athlon646464 said:


> How many stations do you receive if you connect the antenna you have connected to your LCC directly to your TV?


With antenna connected directly to my TV I get all of my locals: ABC, CBS, FOX, NBC and PBS (and their subchannels). With the LCC I only get CBS and it's subchannels.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

Indiana627 said:


> With antenna connected directly to my TV I get all of my locals: ABC, CBS, FOX, NBC and PBS (and their subchannels). With the LCC I only get CBS and it's subchannels.


That sucks. Looks like the tuner in the LCC isn't as sensitive as the one in your TV. Try running setup again, and add a second zip code if your antenna can pick stations up from there as well.

On my crippled AM-21 (when it works), I had to run setup twice before I got all of the channels my TV could get.


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## philherz (May 3, 2008)

Indiana627 said:


> With antenna connected directly to my TV I get all of my locals: ABC, CBS, FOX, NBC and PBS (and their subchannels). With the LCC I only get CBS and it's subchannels.


You guys are probably way smarter than me, but it took me a minute after I hooked up the LCC to realize I had to change from my Favorite Channels to All Channels that I Get to see the "new" channels.


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## bjdotson (Feb 20, 2007)

philherz said:


> You guys are probably way smarter than me, but it took me a minute after I hooked up the LCC to realize I had to change from my Favorite Channels to All Channels that I Get to see the "new" channels.


No offense, but this made me laugh out loud. I am sure that this is exactly what I would have done. The only thing that would make it worse is if my wife saw me do it (although she's used to it)


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## philherz (May 3, 2008)

bjdotson said:


> No offense, but this made me laugh out loud. I am sure that this is exactly what I would have done. The only thing that would make it worse is if my wife saw me do it (although she's used to it)


I know these gizmos are smart, but I guess I gave it a bit too much credit for being automated.


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## Indiana627 (Nov 18, 2005)

So the LCC truly does scan the airwaves for OTA channels? It's not being feed the OTA channels from a D* database like how the AM21 worked?

Instead of using the antenna that came with the LCC, could I connect a different non-amplified antenna like the Philips PHDTV1 that I have laying around to the LCC?

Buy the Philips TV antenna US2-PHDTV1 TV antenna


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

Indiana627 said:


> So the LCC truly does scan the airwaves for OTA channels? It's not being feed the OTA channels from a D* database like how the AM21 worked?
> 
> Instead of using the antenna that came with the LCC, could I connect a different non-amplified antenna like the Philips PHDTV1 that I have laying around to the LCC?
> 
> Buy the Philips TV antenna US2-PHDTV1 TV antenna


Yes - you can connect a better antenna, amplified or not.

I don't know for sure, but I think the scan determines which channels you can receive by detecting their signals during the scan, and the guide is filled in properly if the database for those channels has been updated. If the database has not been updated for any of those channels, then the program guide says "Regular Programming" in place of the actual program. You can even set up manual recordings on those channels.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

philherz said:


> You guys are probably way smarter than me, but it took me a minute after I hooked up the LCC to realize I had to change from my Favorite Channels to All Channels that I Get to see the "new" channels.


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## Shad (May 29, 2007)

I replaced my AM 21 with a LCC yesterday. When I swapped it out and ran the setup, it only picked up the weakest signal of all the OTA channels, completely did not see the channels that I usually get 100% signal with the AM 21. I restarted the receiver and ran the setup again and it picked up everything, including channels in a market that I didn't put the zip code in for. I have been impressed with how well it works at holding weaker signals and minimizing dropouts.


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## makaiguy (Sep 24, 2007)

makaiguy said:


> "Mel" was able to put in the order (he said). He gave me an order number which at least shows up on my online account and does not at this point indicate it's been canceled. We'll see if I actually get an LCC.


Son of a gun, "Mel" came through for me. FedEx delivered my LCC today. Hooked it up and was pleasantly surprised with the reception with the included Winegard flat antenna mounted to an interior wall near my HR-44.


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## dod1450 (Dec 16, 2009)

Indiana627 said:


> With antenna connected directly to my TV I get all of my locals: ABC, CBS, FOX, NBC and PBS (and their subchannels). With the LCC I only get CBS and it's subchannels.


 Can you go into your menu setting for the HR54 and scroll down where it shows the number of stations you are seeing? Let us know. With AM-21 I see 110 OTA stations.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

That's really odd that the LCC does worse than the AM21 for some people. The AM21 uses a very old tuner that's more prone to stuff like multipath.

I wonder if the front end of the LCC is really poor, and introduces a lot of noise? If so, using an amplified antenna should fix the issue (because then the noise of the antenna's amplifier is what matters, and the noise in the LCC/AM21 front end becomes mostly irrelevant)

Now many cheapo amplified antennas have crappy high noise amplifiers in them, so for best results you'd use a non-amplified antenna and a separate low noise amplifier.


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## Shad (May 29, 2007)

Based on my experience yesterday, I would say reset the receiver after removing the OTA channels stored in memory then run the OTA setup. Initially mine was terrible and I was about to put it back in the box before resetting it. After the reset it picks up everything.


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## Indiana627 (Nov 18, 2005)

This LCC is pretty wonky if you ask me. After only receiving my CBS (my only local not in contract dispute), I reset my settings then reran OTA setup using the same ZIP. Without moving the antenna, I got only my FOX channels; the CBS channels did not come in after the 2nd setup even though signal strength of the CBS channels was high 80s and even 90s (I checked before resetting the settings). I was happy to get FOX as that is 1 of my 3 locals in dispute. Signal strength of the FOX channels was also high 80s. Wanting to get my other disputed locals of ABC and NBC, I decided to try one more time. So I again reset the OTA then reran the setup using the same ZIP. This 3rd time I'm now getting only my ABC and NBC - no CBS or FOX even though they both previously came in great with strong signals. Strange! But I think I'm done playing around with this thing as ABC and NBC were my priorities to get with the LCC. Now that I've got those I don't want to risk losing them on yet another reset/setup process.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

Indiana627 said:


> This LCC is pretty wonky if you ask me. After only receiving my CBS (my only local not in contract dispute), I reset my settings then reran OTA setup using the same ZIP. Without moving the antenna, I got only my FOX channels; the CBS channels did not come in after the 2nd setup even though signal strength of the CBS channels was high 80s and even 90s (I checked before resetting the settings). I was happy to get FOX as that is 1 of my 3 locals in dispute. Signal strength of the FOX channels was also high 80s. Wanting to get my other disputed locals of ABC and NBC, I decided to try one more time. So I again reset the OTA then reran the setup using the same ZIP. This 3rd time I'm now getting only my ABC and NBC - no CBS or FOX even though they both previously came in great with strong signals. Strange! But I think I'm done playing around with this thing as ABC and NBC were my priorities to get with the LCC. Now that I've got those I don't want to risk losing them on yet another reset/setup process.


Have you tried a different USB cable?

EDIT: Not having an LCC, this suggestion may not make sense if you plug the LCC directly into your DVR - sorry for any confusion.


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## HarryG (Jul 9, 2007)

Received my LCC yesterday, did a channel scan, and was disappointed with the results. I disconnected the supplied antenna and hooked up the LCC to my Channel Master 4248, reset the LCC and rescanned for channels, this time receiving a majority (but not all) of my available local channels. 

Frustrated, I ran multiple scans, sometimes completely resetting the LCC before the LCC finally recognized the digital frequency it was omitting (ironically the local NBC affiliate that is being blacked out by Directv.)

Unfortunately, there is an issue with the program guide. Two digital channels 9.4 (Antenna TV) and 20.3 (MeTV) have continuous program listings that don’t correctly correspond to either network. Is there a method for reporting the program listing discrepancies to Directv?


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

So is the testing showing the old AM21 OTA tuner is better than the LCC?
Or is it too early to tell?
Or do people just need to reset and clear all OTA channels, reboot the main box, and resetup when switching to a LCC?

Myself, I Only have a AM21 works really good.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

scottchez said:


> Myself, I Only have a AM21 works really good.


Then hold onto that as long as you can. With DIRECTV, new equipment usually takes a while to work out the bugs (if ever).


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

trh said:


> Then hold onto that as long as you can. With DIRECTV, new equipment usually takes a while to work out the bugs (if ever).


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## DirectMan (Jul 15, 2007)

My friend is a D* subscriber in one of the Nexstar affected areas and I was able to request and obtain an LCC on his behalf from ATT. I asked for two LCC's but they said I could only request one. On the accessory tab of the myATT site it now lists an LCC for him. If I call them again I may be turned down as they could say that they have already sent him one, or there again they are so screwed up perhaps they don't have easy access to the site and may just send him another one. Has anyone had success requesting additional LCC's?


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

Are asking for the second one so you can have it? Because the LCCs only work on an HR44 or HR54, so he can't use a second one. I can't see them authorizing more than one per account. Right now.


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## DirectMan (Jul 15, 2007)

trh said:


> Are asking for the second one so you can have it? Because the LCCs only work on an HR44 or HR54, so he can't use a second one. I can't see them authorizing more than one per account. Right now.


Yup one for me I am in an area without an ongoing dispute with a provider. I guess I cannot use an LCC on a HR-24 I have an AM-21 that is not working too good these days.


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## sstv (Jul 30, 2006)

Hi All
I don't understand a DTV screen I get when I go to 11.1 but not on 11. 11.1 screen talks about the problem between CBS and DTV. and you never get a CBS picture. If i go to 11, which is SAT, I get CBS programing. I thought 11.1 was over the air and 11 is sat and over the air is just that. Yes I have a LCC installed and working, but it seems over the air is not over the air. Of course i get 11 from my out door tv ant just fine when it is hooked to the tv.
SSTV


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## Willh (Jan 1, 2009)

sstv said:


> Hi All
> I don't understand a DTV screen I get when I go to 11.1 but not on 11. 11.1 screen talks about the problem between CBS and DTV. and you never get a CBS picture. If i go to 11, which is SAT, I get CBS programing. I thought 11.1 was over the air and 11 is sat and over the air is just that. Yes I have a LCC installed and working, but it seems over the air is not over the air. Of course i get 11 from my out door tv ant just fine when it is hooked to the tv.
> SSTV


I'm assuming you are in North Texas too, CBS and AT&T are about to go into a dispute this weekend.


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## jamieh1 (May 1, 2003)

trh said:


> Are asking for the second one so you can have it? Because the LCCs only work on an HR44 or HR54, so he can't use a second one. I can't see them authorizing more than one per account. Right now.


I've got two LCCs. I contacted and said I had a issue with mine. They sent me a 2nd no questions asked.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

jamieh1 said:


> I've got two LCCs. I contacted and said I had a issue with mine. They sent me a 2nd no questions asked.


Because your first one wasn't working.


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## sstv (Jul 30, 2006)

Willh said:


> I'm assuming you are in North Texas too, CBS and AT&T are about to go into a dispute this weekend.


Hi
We are in Dallas, but what I don't understand is why do I get the warning screen on a "over the air" CBS channel which should not be affected by any dispute and not on a "SAT" CBS channel that should be affected. It seems that "over the air" is not "over the air"!!! My LCC is installed and working.
SSTV


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

sstv said:


> Hi
> We are in Dallas, but what I don't understand is why do I get the warning screen on a "over the air" CBS channel which should not be affected by any dispute and not on a "SAT" CBS channel that should be affected. It seems that "over the air" is not "over the air"!!! My LCC is installed and working.
> SSTV


They most likely want everyone to know in a way hurts potential new sales for anyone thinking of switching that must have their local CBS station.

FWIW Nexstar is displaying crawls on my local CBS OTA signal which is shown to every provider and the live stream on CBS All Access. They changed the crawl last week to encourage non D* subs to call into D* customer care to help fellow neighbors get their station back. I watched Love Island tonight via OTA & LCC and they changed the crawl again to count the number of weeks they have been off D*.


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## DirectMan (Jul 15, 2007)

sstv said:


> Hi
> We are in Dallas, but what I don't understand is why do I get the warning screen on a "over the air" CBS channel which should not be affected by any dispute and not on a "SAT" CBS channel that should be affected. It seems that "over the air" is not "over the air"!!! My LCC is installed and working.
> SSTV


CBS Dallas KTVT 11 is a CBS O&O station that may be pulled from D* on July 20. Totally separate from the Nexstar pull.


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## dod1450 (Dec 16, 2009)

jamieh1 said:


> I've got two LCCs. I contacted and said I had a issue with mine. They sent me a 2nd no questions asked.


 What was the first one doing or not?


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## sstv (Jul 30, 2006)

DirectMan said:


> CBS Dallas KTVT 11 is a CBS O&O station that may be pulled from D* on July 20. Totally separate from the Nexstar pull.


OK, that explains it.
SSTV


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## sstv (Jul 30, 2006)

dod1450 said:


> What was the first one doing or not?


Same here, had a blank screen problem so they send me another LCC, RBR fixed the blank screen.
SSTV


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

I lost my CW channel due to the Nexstar dispute. I called in today and was able to order an LCC, it should be here on Friday. I’ll keep you updated.

Special thanks to MysterMan for his help with this.


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## chudgins (Aug 3, 2006)

I'm in Nashville and upgraded to an HR54, ordered and received an LCC and it's working properly. There is a bit of judder in the audio on some channels that seems to clear after 30 seconds or so. I assume it's buffering. DTV sent me 3 remote receivers as well but think I will keep the HR24s on my other 3 TVs as I don't want to lose previously recorded shows. I wish there was a way to integrate the local channel access from the HR54 to the HR24s


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

chudgins said:


> I wish there was a way to integrate the local channel access from the HR54 to the HR24s


Record the shows to your 54 and then you can play back on your 24s.


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## danny baker (Jan 30, 2018)

got hr54-700 installed hooked llc to it get 20+ ota stations, sent hr17 back to dtv. had to scan ota twice to get all channels.


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## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

I'm on chat right now to get details on the LCC and inquire if I can get one for no charge and no contract extention. The reasoning is the threat of loosing CBS 3 Philadelphia on Sunday.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

cypherx said:


> I'm on chat right now to get details on the LCC and inquire if I can get one for no charge and no contract extention. The reasoning is the threat of loosing CBS 3 Philadelphia on Sunday.


From all the previous posts, 'the system' won't allow them to send you one unless you're in one of their market areas or in an area with a current outage. 'Threat' of losing the channels probably won't make any difference.


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## dtv757 (Jun 4, 2006)

Also genie 2 not supported and therefore they cannot order LCC 



Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


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## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

trh said:


> From all the previous posts, 'the system' won't allow them to send you one unless you're in one of their market areas or in an area with a current outage. 'Threat' of losing the channels probably won't make any difference.


Yeah they called me because chat could only go so far. I'm on the phone now, second time on hold on the phone and he has to go to "floor support" to find out why its giving him a hard time trying to order the LCC.

So far I have $30 a month for 12 month discount, Chat also gave me $10 off I think a one time convenience discount. So this is a long process with no end result yet.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

cypherx said:


> Yeah they called me because chat could only go so far. I'm on the phone now, second time on hold on the phone and he has to go to "floor support" to find out why its giving him a hard time trying to order the LCC.


Because you don't qualify for one yet.


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## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

Yup, you are both right. Came back on the line from holding and said that if negotiations do fail and CBS 3 goes dark on 7/20, then the system will be updated and I will be able to get an LCC for free.

The call wasn't a complete waste of time though. Just got an email confirming the $30 a month discount for the next 12 months. Rep confirmed no contract extension. It was the loyalty department on the other end of the line.


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## trainman (Jan 9, 2008)

sstv said:


> Hi All
> I don't understand a DTV screen I get when I go to 11.1 but not on 11. 11.1 screen talks about the problem between CBS and DTV. and you never get a CBS picture. If i go to 11, which is SAT, I get CBS programing. I thought 11.1 was over the air and 11 is sat and over the air is just that. Yes I have a LCC installed and working, but it seems over the air is not over the air. Of course i get 11 from my out door tv ant just fine when it is hooked to the tv.
> SSTV


I don't think anyone specifically answered this point: when a broadcast station may soon be pulled from DirecTV due to a contract dispute, DirecTV will usually add a temporary -1 satellite channel with an information screen. It's unrelated to the OTA version of the channel, it just happens to share a channel number.


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## jamieh1 (May 1, 2003)

trh said:


> From all the previous posts, 'the system' won't allow them to send you one unless you're in one of their market areas or in an area with a current outage. 'Threat' of losing the channels probably won't make any difference.


I got a LCC a couple of weeks before my market lost stations. No questions asked.


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## mario64 (May 25, 2009)

Hi all,

Got my LCC setup today but am experiencing a couple of problems:

1) Deselecting channels in OTA setup is not hiding them in the guide. Is that normal?
2) Most channels have duplicate entries, eg 11-1 twice, 11-2 twice, etc. Strangely, signal strength on each is different. Is this normal or should I re-run setup to clear the dups?

Thanks,
Mario


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

I am in the Los Angeles area and I was able to order my LCC tonight. I'll be glad to free up some space in my cabinet by getting rid of my AM21.


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

I got my LCC yesterday and installed it just now. Did two scans with it and its not picking up any of my locals, says my signal is too weak. Yet my TV’s tuner can get ALL of my locals with my rooftop OTA antenna.

I guess the tuner chips in this thing suck. A lot of people are going to be unhappy with it. Good thing I didn’t pay for it.


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## DirectMan (Jul 15, 2007)

Anyone who has recently received an LCC can you please tell me what was the carrier in which they shipped the device. Was it FedEx and did they send you an email with the tracking info or was anyone able to call them back and receive the tracking number. I don't want to miss receiving my LCC because I am not at home the week they send the LCC.


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## scarzy (Oct 14, 2007)

I was able to order my LCC today since CBS is out. Is there someplace on the ATT website where I should see the order? I have searched & searched and not found any place where it would be located. I did not receive an email with any order details.


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## philherz (May 3, 2008)

DirectMan said:


> Anyone who has recently received an LCC can you please tell me what was the carrier in which they shipped the device. Was it FedEx and did they send you an email with the tracking info or was anyone able to call them back and receive the tracking number. I don't want to miss receiving my LCC because I am not at home the week they send the LCC.


Never got a tracking number and it didn't show a confirmation on my account, but it did show up on my porch one day.

Funny thing was that I was concerned and called D* that morning and they said that it would arrive that afternoon.

I think it was by UPS.


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## ctide21 (Sep 4, 2011)

In LA and also ordered my LCC. It will show up under order my equipment orders and service calls on the website.


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

DirectMan said:


> Anyone who has recently received an LCC can you please tell me what was the carrier in which they shipped the device. Was it FedEx and did they send you an email with the tracking info or was anyone able to call them back and receive the tracking number. I don't want to miss receiving my LCC because I am not at home the week they send the LCC.


Mine came next day FedEx. Ordered Wednesday afternoon, shipped Thursday, arrived Friday. I did not receive an email with the tracking number.


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

TheRatPatrol said:


> Mine came next day FedEx. Ordered Wednesday afternoon, shipped Thursday, arrived Friday. I did not receive an email with the tracking number.


I ordered mine on the phone last night and didn't get an email or tracking number either.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

TheRatPatrol said:


> I got my LCC yesterday and installed it just now. Did two scans with it and its not picking up any of my locals, says my signal is too weak. Yet my TV's tuner can get ALL of my locals with my rooftop OTA antenna.
> 
> I guess the tuner chips in this thing suck. A lot of people are going to be unhappy with it. Good thing I didn't pay for it.


Are you using the supplied antenna or did you hook it up to your rooftop OTA antenna?


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

trh said:


> Are you using the supplied antenna or did you hook it up to your rooftop OTA antenna?


Rooftop OTA antenna.


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## jamieh1 (May 1, 2003)

Only issue I’ve had with two different LCCs is the audio skips and pops. If you hit rewind it corrects itself.


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## sstv (Jul 30, 2006)

philherz said:


> Never got a tracking number and it didn't show a confirmation on my account, but it did show up on my porch one day.
> 
> Funny thing was that I was concerned and called D* that morning and they said that it would arrive that afternoon.
> 
> I think it was by UPS.


Same here
sstv


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## wilbur_the_goose (Aug 16, 2006)

We just lost CBS in Philly and other major markets. Does D* offer the LCC for us? 

Edit: How the heck can they not support this on their current generation HS-17?


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

wilbur_the_goose said:


> Edit: How the heck can they not support this on their current generation HS-17?


Nobody knows. There's certainly nothing about the HS17 hardware that would be prevent it, its firmware just doesn't have the driver for it.

Keep in mind though that the LCC isn't "officially released", they are still supporting it only in a handful of test markets and giving it out to customers who have lost locals in a dispute. Hopefully support for both the HS17 and the H2x/HR2x line will come down the road, but there's no way of knowing what their plans are.

The software seems to still have some kinks for them to work out, i.e. some report audio problems that are fixed on rewind and others have reported not finding stations unless you reboot the Genie, do multiple OTA scans etc.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

While losing the CBS channels is only a few markets they include major markets (a lot of potential customers). Perhaps this is the push DIRECTV needs to move the LCC to full release.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

slice1900 said:


> Nobody knows. There's certainly nothing about the HS17 hardware that would be prevent it, its firmware just doesn't have the driver for it.
> .


You keep saying it's just a driver being needed, are you sure? Could the issue be the HS17 doesn't have the horsepower, either on the buss or with the transfer rate of the hard drive to handle? Example, you have two 4K recordings going while you have two C61K's viewing 4K recordings, so that'4 four concurrent 4K streams writing/reading from the drive. Then throw in maybe 5 other HD recordings going on while you have multiple clients viewing recordings. Now maybe AT&T knowing how much bandwidth they're giving all the channels could compute the data transfer rate needed and sees no problem with that. But now replace two of those channels with OTA recordings from the LCC, which could be double the bandwidth (19Mbps vs 9 or 10Mbps for a AT&T HD channel) and maybe that would be outside what the HS17 can handle?


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## poppo (Oct 10, 2006)

I did not loose my local CBS, but did loose the Smithsonian channel. This is getting ridiculous. Pay more, get less. 

I already got the LCC because I lost the CW, but that does not help with these other channels.


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## Willh (Jan 1, 2009)

poppo said:


> I did not loose my local CBS, but did loose the Smithsonian channel. This is getting ridiculous. Pay more, get less.
> 
> I already got the LCC because I lost the CW, but that does not help with these other channels.


what market do you live in.


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

RAD said:


> You keep saying it's just a driver being needed, are you sure? Could the issue be the HS17 doesn't have the horsepower, either on the buss or with the transfer rate of the hard drive to handle? Example, you have two 4K recordings going while you have two C61K's viewing 4K recordings, so that'4 four concurrent 4K streams writing/reading from the drive. Then throw in maybe 5 other HD recordings going on while you have multiple clients viewing recordings. Now maybe AT&T knowing how much bandwidth they're giving all the channels could compute the data transfer rate needed and sees no problem with that. But now replace two of those channels with OTA recordings from the LCC, which could be double the bandwidth (19Mbps vs 9 or 10Mbps for a AT&T HD channel) and maybe that would be outside what the HS17 can handle?


Well, they discontinued the AM21 many years ago because they didn't want to support it. The HS17 was likely in development for a few years and isn't the "top seller" at this point. The HR44/HR54's are. They'd also likely want to get rid of HR2x's since they're junk and move everybody to the server / client configuration.

So why build the LCC at all you ask? Well... over the last 1 - 2 years streaming has become a huge concern for them, when it wasn't say 3 - 4 yrs ago. No point in resurrecting the AM21 at this point since its a monster sized empty box. So they built the LCC as an attempt to placate any angry customers during a channel dispute.

The theory I guess is that once you go streaming, you don't go back.

I'm going to augment Slice's theory and say that they likely want to get it perfected on the bread & butter DVRs and then if the market calls for it, add it to the other DVRs.

Yeah, it's going to be a driver / software issue. It connects via USB just like the AM21 did.


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## compnurd (Apr 23, 2007)

RAD said:


> You keep saying it's just a driver being needed, are you sure? Could the issue be the HS17 doesn't have the horsepower, either on the buss or with the transfer rate of the hard drive to handle? Example, you have two 4K recordings going while you have two C61K's viewing 4K recordings, so that'4 four concurrent 4K streams writing/reading from the drive. Then throw in maybe 5 other HD recordings going on while you have multiple clients viewing recordings. Now maybe AT&T knowing how much bandwidth they're giving all the channels could compute the data transfer rate needed and sees no problem with that. But now replace two of those channels with OTA recordings from the LCC, which could be double the bandwidth (19Mbps vs 9 or 10Mbps for a AT&T HD channel) and maybe that would be outside what the HS17 can handle?


Horse power is not the issue


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## thebigeazy (May 12, 2006)

I have tried twice to order a LCC from Directv. About a month ago and again last week. They said it will be shipped in 1-3 days, I haven't received anything nor has the Fedex Routing number appear in my mailbox. Does the ZIP code of my home have anything to do with ordering? I live about 35 miles from New Orleans. I can receive all of the NOLA channels with an OTA antenna, as well as some from Biloxi, MS, which is the same distance away. If I am not allowed to have an LCC, why doesn't Directv just let me know?


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

RAD said:


> You keep saying it's just a driver being needed, are you sure? Could the issue be the HS17 doesn't have the horsepower, either on the buss or with the transfer rate of the hard drive to handle?


C'mon, a fricking HR21 can handle an AM21, do you really believe that something over a decade more advanced is too slow to handle a couple OTA tuners?

You really think Dish can make a DVR that handles 16 tuners including one that records four locals at once, PLUS handles two OTA tuners but hardware from Directv even more recent than Hopper 3 lacks the ability to handle less than half as much? You really aren't giving Directv any credit at all.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

TheRatPatrol said:


> Mine came next day FedEx. Ordered Wednesday afternoon, shipped Thursday, arrived Friday. I did not receive an email with the tracking number.


You may have a bad one. Call them. Also try a different USB cable.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

poppo said:


> I did not loose my local CBS, but did loose the Smithsonian channel. This is getting ridiculous. Pay more, get less.
> 
> I already got the LCC because I lost the CW, but that does not help with these other channels.


Because Smithsonian is owned by CBS, your local CBS station is not.


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## philherz (May 3, 2008)

thebigeazy said:


> I have tried twice to order a LCC from Directv. About a month ago and again last week. They said it will be shipped in 1-3 days, I haven't received anything nor has the Fedex Routing number appear in my mailbox. Does the ZIP code of my home have anything to do with ordering? I live about 35 miles from New Orleans. I can receive all of the NOLA channels with an OTA antenna, as well as some from Biloxi, MS, which is the same distance away. If I am not allowed to have an LCC, why doesn't Directv just let me know?


 You lost stations? And you have a compatible unit?

Not sure why they'd jerk you around twice when they seem to be giving these out like Halloween candy!!


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## gio12 (Jul 31, 2006)

I live in SFLA and we just lost our CBS channel on Saturday. Call to request a LCC


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

Athlon646464 said:


> You may have a bad one. Call them. Also try a different USB cable.


The USB and power cable are fixed to the unit, you can't swap it out.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

TheRatPatrol said:


> The USB and power cable are fixed to the unit, you can't swap it out.


Ahh - didn't know that.

I just got off the phone - ordered one for myself. I'll swap it out from my AM21 to see if it's more sensitive, the same or less sensitive.


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

Athlon646464 said:


> Ahh - didn't know that.
> 
> I just got off the phone - ordered one for myself. I'll swap it out from my AM21 to see if it's more sensitive, the same or less sensitive.


I think they used cheap tuners in it.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

TheRatPatrol said:


> I think they used cheap tuners in it.


My AM21 gets more channels than the cheap (non smart) LG LED TV we have in our guest room, so it will be an interesting test.

By the way, I have it connected to a pretty good antenna in my attic. We're about 30 miles from the Boston towers and about 20 miles from the Providence, RI towers. Unfortunately, they are in nearly opposite directions from our house. I do get a few Providence stations, though.

ATT has me in the Boston market because we live in Massachusetts.


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

slice1900 said:


> You really aren't giving Directv any credit at all.


Hi, welcome to the DirecTV family. Is today your first day?


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

scarzy said:


> I was able to order my LCC today since CBS is out. Is there someplace on the ATT website where I should see the order? I have searched & searched and not found any place where it would be located. I did not receive an email with any order details.


From my earlier post (#533): Log into your ATT account. At the top left, near the Death Star logo, click 'Shop and support'. 'Check order status' is near the bottom of the list you will see there. (This is how it looks on my desk top PC.)

Or, this direct link may work for you:

AT&T Order Management Portal


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

slice1900 said:


> C'mon, a fricking HR21 can handle an AM21, do you really believe that something over a decade more advanced is too slow to handle a couple OTA tuners?


A HR21 didn't need to handle streaming to 5 clients while also recording and supporting 4K streams. As I've said in other streams my question was would adding the additional throughput that OTA would add over DBS channels maybe when AT&T added everything up they had concerns about the drive being able to handle all those simultaneous read and writes without causing issues with viewing.

Just trying to give AT&T the benefit of the doubt that the reason they don't support the LCC on the Genie 2 is maybe more difficult then your standard all they need is a driver answer.


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## Billzebub (Jan 2, 2007)

We lost CBS and whatever that other channel CBS owns n Pittsburgh. I called about the LLC (called the loyalty number) and when the CSR couldn’t order it he transferred me to “someone who can do this for you”. I was transferred to the Philippines. That CSR couldn’t find my account even with my phone number and account number. Called back and was assured one was finally ordered. I was skeptical because she kept saying she was ordering the antenna and didn’t seem to know what an LLC was. Just checked my account and what she sent me was an RF remote and RF antenna. Oh well, I’ll call again tomorrow.


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## GekkoDBS (Dec 5, 2015)

Billzebub said:


> We lost CBS and whatever that other channel CBS owns n Pittsburgh. I called about the LLC (called the loyalty number) and when the CSR couldn't order it he transferred me to "someone who can do this for you". I was transferred to the Philippines. That CSR couldn't find my account even with my phone number and account number. Called back and was assured one was finally ordered. I was skeptical because she kept saying she was ordering the antenna and didn't seem to know what an LLC was. Just checked my account and what she sent me was an RF remote and RF antenna. Oh well, I'll call again tomorrow.


When you call, transfer to technical support, ordered it for me without a problem.


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## Billzebub (Jan 2, 2007)

GordonGekko said:


> When you call, transfer to technical support, ordered it for me without a problem.


Thanks, talked to technical support this morning and it's taken care of. Got the email confirmation and confirmed under my orders on the website.


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## Indiana627 (Nov 18, 2005)

I got my free LCC a few weeks ago when I lost 2 locals (ABC and NBC) in the Nexstar dispute. I've got it hooked up to my HR54 and both channels come in great. ABC is on channel 34.1 and NBC is on subchannel 34.2. I've been recording The Bachelorette on 34.1 for my wife with no issue. I'm also trying to record America's Got Talent on 34.2 and it never records and just gives "this recording was cancelled due to an unexpected error (3)" in the recording history. Does anyone know what this error is? What's the point of the LCC if I still can't record shows?


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## Spoonman27 (Jul 12, 2009)

Has anybody getting only three bars been able to use the LCC? I only get three bars or a "moderate" signal when I plug in my address on the website below. Lost CBS in my area this weekend.

https://signalstrength.directv.com/


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## R0am3r (Sep 20, 2008)

Spoonman27 said:


> Has anybody getting only three bars been able to use the LCC? I only get three bars or a "moderate" signal when I plug in my address on the website below. Lost CBS in my area this weekend.
> 
> https://signalstrength.directv.com/


According to this web site, almost all of my stations are two or three bars. My solution includes using an outdoor antenna (Channel Master 4228) and mast mounted amplifier (Channel Master CM-7777) to watch my locals. The LCC works perfectly for me and I am able to watch the three missing channels that are blacked out.


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## reubenray (Jun 27, 2002)

I am checking for someone else, but will the AirTV dual tuner adapter work with either the HR44 or HR54?


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

reubenray said:


> I am checking for someone else, but will the AirTV dual tuner adapter work with either the HR44 or HR54?


No.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

Spoonman27 said:


> Has anybody getting only three bars been able to use the LCC? I only get three bars or a "moderate" signal when I plug in my address on the website below. Lost CBS in my area this weekend.
> 
> https://signalstrength.directv.com/


I have an AM21 (LCC due today), and the stations with 3 bars for me at that website are working fine. However, I'm not using an antenna like the one that will come with the LCC. Instead, I'm using an indoor/outdoor antenna in placed my attic.


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## captaink5217 (Sep 20, 2011)

When you go through the LCC setup what is secondary location for, a protection plan rep said it gives a wider search area, anyone know if that’s correct and if so should it be the same zip code as the primary??


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

captaink5217 said:


> When you go through the LCC setup what is secondary location for, a protection plan rep said it gives a wider search area, anyone know if that's correct and if so should it be the same zip code as the primary??
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Use your next closest market's zip code. It may give you more stations.

No, do not use the same zip code twice.


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## VARTV (Dec 14, 2006)

Athlon646464 said:


> I have an AM21 (LCC due today), and the stations with 3 bars for me at that website are working fine. However, I'm not using an antenna like the one that will come with the LCC. Instead, I'm using an indoor/outdoor antenna in placed my attic.


Exactly what I did. Replaced my AM21 with a LCC (minus their antenna part). Whatever the signal strength meter represents, the numbers are better thru the LCC than the AM21...


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

VARTV said:


> Exactly what I did. Replaced my AM21 with a LCC (minus their antenna part). Whatever the signal strength meter represents, the numbers are better thru the LCC than the AM21...


Interesting. When I get my LCC later today, I'm going to test that here (as long as there is nothing being recorded OTA by my wife). I have two stations that break up every few minutes or so, so if the LCC is more sensitive I may see the results on those two stations either way.

I have an antenna pre-amp from SS on the way to solve that issue no matter which device happens to work better.

If the LCC works fine on my HR-54, I may move the AM21 to my HR-24 and point the cheapo antenna the LCC comes with toward our CBS station in Boston.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

LCC arrived - I see no difference in reception between the LCC and my AM21. I'm going to leave the LCC connected for now, and try the AM21 on my HR-24 later.

Hopefully, the pre-amp I have coming from SS will help with the two minor stations that break up for me.

On a side note - I was impressed to see the antenna they include is the 'top of the line' Winegard indoor one (one of a few models they sell), and the amplified version to boot.


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## bossfan50 (Apr 28, 2007)

Maybe dumb question but does it matter if the black side or the white side of the Winegard antenna faces the window.

LCC is a bust for me so far. When I connect the Winegard antenna connected to my TV and do a channel scan on the TV I can scan in CBS and a few other of my local stations with not much picture break up. But when I use the same antenna and do the Directv scan I get low to no signal on the same channels that I am successful on getting with the TV scan.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

bossfan50 said:


> Maybe dumb question but does it matter if the black side or the white side of the Winegard antenna faces the window.
> 
> LCC is a bust for me so far. When I connect the Winegard antenna connected to my TV and do a channel scan on the TV I can scan in CBS and a few other of my local stations with not much picture break up. But when I use the same antenna and do the Directv scan I get low to no signal on the same channels that I am successful on getting with the TV scan.


Makes no difference on the black or white facing question.

As for poor signal strength, height is your friend. Or you need a better antenna.


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## bossfan50 (Apr 28, 2007)

Athlon646464 said:


> Makes no difference on the black or white facing question.
> 
> As for poor signal strength, height is your friend. Or you need a better antenna.


Thanks for that info. After moving antenna from lower part of window to upper part I had better success scanning in what I need. I also had the antenna straight up and down but re-positioning it at an angle helped also.

OK so now that I have the LCC working and I have my DVR functionality back CBS can suck it if they want to hold ATT hostage over fees for channels that can be had for free. Of course I understand that does not help people that don't have success scanning in channels using the LCC.


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## Larrye1944 (Jul 7, 2019)

will A out side OTA antenna work with LCC ?


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## studechip (Apr 16, 2012)

Larrye1944 said:


> will A out side OTA antenna work with LCC ?


Yes


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## bossfan50 (Apr 28, 2007)

Larrye1944 said:


> will A out side OTA antenna work with LCC ?


Yes it will. The provided Winegard antenna has a coax connection that screws into a powered splitter. One part of the splitter is a USB connection to the back of the DVR. Just screw in the coax of your outside antenna into the powered splitter and you should be good to go.


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## captaink5217 (Sep 20, 2011)

Weird problem, with the ota channels the genie 54 gets constant sound drops but none of the minis have that problem, you would think the main genie where the LCC is actually at would be the strong point


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

captaink5217 said:


> Weird problem, with the ota channels the genie 54 gets constant sound drops but none of the minis have that problem, you would think the main genie where the LCC is actually at would be the strong point
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You may find that briefly pausing and then restarting your show may fix that (so you are watching it at least a few seconds behind 'live'). Watching something you record OTA will likely not exhibit that behavior either. It seems that watching 'live' causes that audio issue for some.


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

Hmm... my LCC came on Tuesday and I like the much smaller foot print... but seems pretty buggy based on posts. Might just keep my AM21 hooked up.


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

I went ahead and hooked up my LCC. Ugh... what a piece of junk. Constant audio drop outs. I'm putting back my AM21.


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

Called up tech support about the audio drop outs, she had me try a bunch of stuff then said I should move my antenna. I told her its a big antenna in the attic and I can't move it. Plus it worked just fine with the AM21. Also pointed out people in the forums are also complaining about the drop outs. She just hung up at that point lol... I was being polite. Oh well. Back to the good old AM21. I hooked it back up and what do you know? It works just fine with the antenna. .


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Well the people who are wondering why they haven't released it yet, I guess there is your answer. Seems they still have a bug or two to fix.


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## I WANT MORE (Oct 3, 2006)

How are these being shipped?
UPS, USPS, FedEx?


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

I WANT MORE said:


> How are these being shipped?
> UPS, USPS, FedEx?


I received my LCC via FedEx.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

MysteryMan said:


> I received my LCC via FedEx.


+1


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

Indiana627 said:


> I got my free LCC a few weeks ago when I lost 2 locals (ABC and NBC) in the Nexstar dispute. I've got it hooked up to my HR54 and both channels come in great. ABC is on channel 34.1 and NBC is on subchannel 34.2. I've been recording The Bachelorette on 34.1 for my wife with no issue. I'm also trying to record America's Got Talent on 34.2 and it never records and just gives "this recording was cancelled due to an unexpected error (3)" in the recording history. Does anyone know what this error is? What's the point of the LCC if I still can't record shows?


Getting the exact same error (3) on a few recordings here as well. I'm wondering if it's the old guide data bug creeping into the OTA guide data?


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## poppo (Oct 10, 2006)

Sorry if this has been asked already, but this is a long thread to go through. I have an LCC because I lost CW (I'm in Texas) and it works fine. I have a friend in Chicago who lost CBS. She got a LCC and I was walking her through setting it up over the phone. All went well except the OTA CBS 2-1 just gives her the DirecTV logo and nothing else. And it is not a signal strength issue because if she goes to another OTA channel and disconnects the antenna, she gets the expected message that says the signal is low and the antenna may need to be relocated. Any ideas why she is getting just a static logo? Could it be because CBS there is still on a VHF frequency? Not sure if the LCC handles both UHF and VHF


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

poppo said:


> Sorry if this has been asked already, but this is a long thread to go through. I have an LCC because I lost CW (I'm in Texas) and it works fine. I have a friend in Chicago who lost CBS. She got a LCC and I was walking her through setting it up over the phone. All went well except the OTA CBS 2-1 just gives her the DirecTV logo and nothing else. And it is not a signal strength issue because if she goes to another OTA channel and disconnects the antenna, she gets the expected message that says the signal is low and the antenna may need to be relocated. Any ideas why she is getting just a static logo?


Not sure - but she may have two 2-1 channels in her guide. Ask her to check both of them. If she does, one of them is an informational channel there for the current dispute.


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## ziggy29 (Nov 18, 2004)

SledgeHammer said:


> I went ahead and hooked up my LCC. Ugh... what a piece of junk. Constant audio drop outs. I'm putting back my AM21.





SledgeHammer said:


> Called up tech support about the audio drop outs, she had me try a bunch of stuff then said I should move my antenna. I told her its a big antenna in the attic and I can't move it. Plus it worked just fine with the AM21. Also pointed out people in the forums are also complaining about the drop outs. She just hung up at that point lol... I was being polite. Oh well. Back to the good old AM21. I hooked it back up and what do you know? It works just fine with the antenna. .





slice1900 said:


> Well the people who are wondering why they haven't released it yet, I guess there is your answer. Seems they still have a bug or two to fix.


Hmm. I've noticed dropouts in the audio as well, I just chalked it up to a marginal signal. Does anyone who has used both the LCC and AM21 see a different in signal strength or ability to pick up some stations with one and not the other? Wondering about the strength of the tuners in the LCC.


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## poppo (Oct 10, 2006)

Athlon646464 said:


> Not sure - but she may have two 2-1 channels in her guide. Ask her to check both of them. If she does, one of them is an informational channel there for the current dispute.


Nope. Only one 2-1. The x-1 is almost always the main channel. She has some other channels that have some sub channels, but not for 2. Additionally, under edit OTA channels 2-1 is not even listed even though it is displaying in the guide. We have re-run the setup a few times. The only thing that is different about CBS is it is on a VHF frequency.

EDIT. I think I know what the problem may be. CBS is also on UHF (virtual channel 48.3) but the LCC setup does not list any OTA 48-x channels. So it may be an issue with the directv OTA database. Hopefully when people in the Chicago area who lost CBS start getting the LCCs and complaining, they will fix it.

If anyone in the Chicago area has the LCC working for CBS, please post how you got it to work.


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## dod1450 (Dec 16, 2009)

poppo said:


> Nope. Only one 2-1. The x-1 is almost always the main channel. She has some other channels that have some sub channels, but not for 2. Additionally, under edit OTA channels 2-1 is not even listed even though it is displaying in the guide. We have re-run the setup a few times. The only thing that is different about CBS is it is on a VHF frequency.
> 
> EDIT. I think I know what the problem may be. CBS is also on UHF (virtual channel 48.3) but the LCC setup does not list any OTA 48-x channels. So it may be an issue with the directv OTA database. Hopefully when people in the Chicago area who lost CBS start getting the LCCs and complaining, they will fix it.
> 
> If anyone in the Chicago area has the LCC working for CBS, please post how you got it to work.


 This may answer your question, click on the OTA tab, Transponder Maps: Domestic, Mexico, Latin ~ Data 7/24/2019


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## perrycur2680 (Apr 29, 2008)

ziggy29 said:


> Hmm. I've noticed dropouts in the audio as well, I just chalked it up to a marginal signal. Does anyone who has used both the LCC and AM21 see a different in signal strength or ability to pick up some stations with one and not the other? Wondering about the strength of the tuners in the LCC.


My observations thus far....

I have both the LCC and AM21 that I have been using on my HR54 since we lost our NBC in the Nexstar blackout. I've noticed on most of my channels the AM21 shows a stronger signal than the LCC does but both pick up the same number of channels for me. The LCC also seems to have a lot of signal variance between its tuners whereas the AM21 does not exhibit this (there is some variance but it is much smaller). It also seems that the LCC has a lot more video and audio issues than the AM21, although they both seem to suffer from it to some extent. When I was watching a recording via the LCC last night from our NBC station I kept having to hit pause after I fast forwarded through the commercials...it was like the audio wasn't syncing up for 5-10 seconds (it was just silence) and the video was choppy/stuttering. It was quite annoying.

I've also noticed the LCC runs HOT...like really hot. I haven't measured the temp with a laser thermometer or anything but it is very hot to the touch. I assume it is due to the power inserter and some of the heat being conducted through the coax connector but it is a bit disconcerting...I'm wondering how the longevity on these will be. I guess if it dies they will probably send out a new one but for now I've gone back to the ol' trusty AM21.


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## poppo (Oct 10, 2006)

dod1450 said:


> This may answer your question, click on the OTA tab, Transponder Maps: Domestic, Mexico, Latin ~ Data 7/24/2019


I have no idea what any of that means. It shows CBS as 2.1 (VHF) which is what shows in the guide, but does NOT show under "edit OTA channels" And according to this, it should ALSO be on 48.3 (UHF) but that is not in the channel list.

"In February 2017, in a channel sharing partnership reached to address channel 2's ever-persistent reception problems in the market, Weigel and CBS Television Stations announced that WBBM-TV and its Decades subchannel would respectively be simulcast on digital subchannels 48.3 and 48.4 of Weigel-owned independent station WMEU-CD indefinitely."
WBBM-TV - Wikipedia

The bottom line it the LCC is showing 2.1, but all that displays is the DirectV logo. And 2.1 for whatever reason is not even listed in the edit OTA channels list. If the LCC can not handle VHF frequencies, I could see why it will think it is a valid channel, but not be able to use it. And if DirecTV is not acknowledging 48.3 is also CBS, then it's not going to work.

But surely someone else in the Chicago area either has the same issue or has it working.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

ziggy29 said:


> Hmm. I've noticed dropouts in the audio as well, I just chalked it up to a marginal signal. Does anyone who has used both the LCC and AM21 see a different in signal strength or ability to pick up some stations with one and not the other? Wondering about the strength of the tuners in the LCC.


What I'd like to see is someone who has an antenna with a separate amplifier (not one with an amplifier built in, 99% of those are crap) that is needed (i.e. they are at least 40 miles away from the towers) sees better results with the AM21 or TV's built in tuner than the LCC.

The audio dropouts is one potential problem, but has NOTHING to do with the signal reception of the LCC if the video isn't dropping out at the same time. That pretty much has to be a software problem on the receiver, and not an issue with the LCC itself or the antenna. Either a problem in the way the audio is being decoded in the LCC driver, or in the audio pathway from the driver through the rest of the receiver's software stack.

The other potential problem are people who say they can pick up some channels with their TV's built in tuner or an AM21 but not the LCC. If after rebooting/resetting/etc. that remains the case, and a replacement LCC doesn't fix it, then that almost certainly is a signal reception problem. A signal can be too strong (if you can see the towers from your house this may be an issue) or too weak. An amplifier will 'fix' the noise in the signal (I don't mean correct, I mean set the level of noise to a constant so it can't be made worse by a low quality tuner) so that type of setup would be a good way to help determine where the problem lies.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

poppo said:


> Nope. Only one 2-1. The x-1 is almost always the main channel. She has some other channels that have some sub channels, but not for 2. Additionally, under edit OTA channels 2-1 is not even listed even though it is displaying in the guide. We have re-run the setup a few times. The only thing that is different about CBS is it is on a VHF frequency.
> 
> EDIT. I think I know what the problem may be. CBS is also on UHF (virtual channel 48.3) but the LCC setup does not list any OTA 48-x channels. So it may be an issue with the directv OTA database. Hopefully when people in the Chicago area who lost CBS start getting the LCCs and complaining, they will fix it.
> 
> If anyone in the Chicago area has the LCC working for CBS, please post how you got it to work.


Okay - then the 2.1 she is seeing is her CBS info channel. I don't know why she's not receiving the OTA one. Try a re-scan.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

slice1900 said:


> What I'd like to see is someone who has an antenna with a separate amplifier (not one with an amplifier built in, 99% of those are crap) that is needed (i.e. they are at least 40 miles away from the towers) sees better results with the AM21 or TV's built in tuner than the LCC.


I have a pre-amp due any day. I need it for a couple of channels that have weak and pixelating signals at times. For now, however, it seems to me the LCC has a slightly better tuner. It's close, but slightly better. The difference would be a 9 and an 8 if I were to rate them.

The LCC is now exhibiting the audio issue for me, as well as very jerky video at times. Both the LCC and AM21 are causing problems with scheduled recordings for me as well.

I've decided D*'s solution isn't ready for prime time (sorry for the pun), so I ordered a Tablo and drive for it from Amazon today.


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## poppo (Oct 10, 2006)

Athlon646464 said:


> Okay - then the 2.1 she is seeing is her CBS info channel. I don't know why she's not receiving the OTA one. Try a re-scan.


Did that a dozen times. The fact that there the channel has a DirecTV logo and not a "no signal" message, tells me that there is something else going on. As I noted above, there are two CBS OTA channels 2.1(VHF) and 48.3(UHF). However the 48.3 (UHF) does not show up in the channel list.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

poppo said:


> Did that a dozen times. The fact that there the channel has a DirecTV logo and not a "no signal" message, tells me that there is something else going on. As I noted above, there are two CBS OTA channels 2.1 and 48.3. However the 48.3 (UHF) does not show up in the channel list.


Does she receive her OTA CBS stations if she connects her antenna directly to her TV?


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

UPDATE
======
Just tried to order a LCC again as I was promised one if I switched from Dish to Directv when I did in May. I had the DISH version of the LCC with DishNetwork and they talked me into Switching Directv

BAIT & SWITCH
===========
I was Lied to (almost like a bait and switch) they confirmed my Case Notes confirmed I was promised one at sign up ( I had them put it in the notes when I signed up).
With out a LCC I either pay $100 on ebay for an AM21 or I just go with out . METV, PBS 2,3, COMET, COZI, LaFF, Stadium, H&I (STAR TREK) and many more sub channels like I had with Dish.

WHO I TALKED TO
=====
This time went through Tech Support, then Retention, then what is called the Tech Support helpers experts team.

After an hour on the call they are still confirming what everyone here already knows but this time I got the real reason (NEW INFO)

CONFIRMED WHAT MOST ALREADY KNOW HERE
======================
FACT: you can ONLY get an LCC if your in a Market (DMA) with a Dispute of the Big 5 Locals.

FACT (NEW INFO): reason why not everyone can order one is they do not have enough to go around with all the CBS and that other company Local Black outs. The ATT "super" computer is program to ONLY allow orders from those approved Markets with Black Out, no one can over rid the the computer not even Retentions or upper Management.

FACT (NEW INFO): they are now out of them and they are direct shipping from the manufacturer, used to take 1-2 days to get now about a week.

CSR Rumor:
They did say try again this fall once this has all cleared up and they have more install with few Local disputes going on.
They seemed very concerns about inventory almost like more black outs were a coming . . . . (just the tone of their voice, no proof)

Till then, they really did say this, go to Walmart and buy your own Antenna and watch the missing Sub Channel locals that way. Real Funny, but I have see other post that they said this before on the other threads.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

scottchez said:


> UPDATE
> ======
> Just tried to order a LCC again as I was promised one if I switched from Dish to Directv when I did in May. I had the DISH version of the LCC with DishNetwork and they talked me into Switching Directv
> I was Lied to (almost like a bait and switch) they confirmed my Case Notes confirmed I was promised one at sign up ( I had them put it in the notes when I signed up).
> ...


You left out that you also need an HR44 or HR54.


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## poppo (Oct 10, 2006)

Athlon646464 said:


> Does she receive her OTA CBS stations if she connects her antenna directly to her TV?


Not sure what that would prove. A no/low signal issue results in a no/low signal display with the LCC, and not a static Directv logo. But I will have her try. I have a feeling it won't work because the LCC antenna is a UHF antenna and not a VHF. I guess I would be curious if she can get 48.3 with it. If so, then there is an issue with DirecTV not using that channel in the database.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

poppo said:


> Not sure what that would prove. A no/low signal issue results in a no/low signal display with the LCC, and not a static Directv logo. But I will have her try. I have a feeling it won't work because the LCC antenna is a UHF antenna and not a VHF. I guess I would be curious if she can get 48.3 with it. If so, then there is an issue with DirecTV not using that channel in the database.


The reason is to find out if she can get the station she is trying for without the LCC. If she can, then we'll know it's the LCC.

If her CBS station is on channel 2 on her DVR, then the 2.1 is an info channel that talks about the issue with CBS. 2-1 in that case is not an OTA channel. For example - here in Boston WBZ (CBS) Channel 4 is dark, 4-1 is an info channel. Those info channels are put up by D* temporarily during disputes.


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## poppo (Oct 10, 2006)

Athlon646464 said:


> If her CBS station is on channel 2 on her DVR, then the 2.1 is an info channel that talks about the issue with CBS. 2-1 in that case is not an OTA channel. For example - here in Boston WBZ (CBS) Channel 4 is dark, 4-1 is an info channel. Those info channels are put up by D* temporarily during disputes.


Channel 2 is the sat channel and it has the blackout message. Channel 2-1 is the OTA channel that was added during the LCC install and has nothing on it except the Directv logo. Why would Directv put an info message on an OTA channel when the whole purpose of the LCC is to use that OTA channel?

When I first set mine up because I lost my local channel 35 under dispute, I connected the wrong cable (that was not connected to anything) and I did not get a 35-1 at all. And as I noted, if you disconnect the antenna after it is set up, you get a no signal message, not a static logo.

I can't help but think the LCC is not set up to pick up VHF channels and that is why it is displaying the message. And since they apparently don't have the 48.3 UHF channel in the database, it never scans for it.


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## captaink5217 (Sep 20, 2011)

I get all my major locals, I’m in Summit Hill, PA, Scranton Wilkes barre locals. I’m using Mohu curved 50 with the LCC, most of them are in 80’s 90’s signal strength. I get audio drops and stuttering on my 4K 61k client but the wireless non 4K client doesn’t show the same stuttering on audio and video, I’m gonna try one more indoor antenna connected to LCC the Channel Master smartenna, the Mohu one gets very good reception though, just trying to see if the channel master will pull in some Allentown, PA locals WFMZ, Mohu pulls those in but only at around 30% signal strength.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

ziggy29 said:


> Hmm. I've noticed dropouts in the audio as well, I just chalked it up to a marginal signal. Does anyone who has used both the LCC and AM21 see a different in signal strength or ability to pick up some stations with one and not the other? Wondering about the strength of the tuners in the LCC.


I have a big 3 ft OTA antenna in the attic that was aimed with a compass. Goes down in wall to the living room over a dedicated RG6. HR54 HDMI output goes to a Denon AVR-X4200W and then to a LG B6. All with Monoprice 18Gbps HDMI cables.

LCC - audio / video glitch on ALL OTA channels every couple of seconds
AM21 - 0 glitches, same setup...


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## thebigeazy (May 12, 2006)

thebigeazy said:


> I have tried twice to order a LCC from Directv. About a month ago and again last week. They said it will be shipped in 1-3 days, I haven't received anything nor has the Fedex Routing number appear in my mailbox. Does the ZIP code of my home have anything to do with ordering? I live about 35 miles from New Orleans. I can receive all of the NOLA channels with an OTA antenna, as well as some from Biloxi, MS, which is the same distance away. If I am not allowed to have an LCC, why doesn't Directv just let me know?


Called DTV, found out I am outside the ZIP code(s), so I'm not allowed to order or use the LCC. After reading the posts here, it may not have worked as well as I had expected. But, I now have an order for a "SLIMLINE" dish which DTV ordered for me. I guess it will help in receiving signals in bad weather.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

poppo said:


> Channel 2 is the sat channel and it has the blackout message. Channel 2-1 is the OTA channel that was added during the LCC install and has nothing on it except the Directv logo. Why would Directv put an info message on an OTA channel when the whole purpose of the LCC is to use that OTA channel?
> 
> When I first set mine up because I lost my local channel 35 under dispute, I connected the wrong cable (that was not connected to anything) and I did not get a 35-1 at all. And as I noted, if you disconnect the antenna after it is set up, you get a no signal message, not a static logo.
> 
> I can't help but think the LCC is not set up to pick up VHF channels and that is why it is displaying the message. And since they apparently don't have the 48.3 UHF channel in the database, it never scans for it.


Humor us - have her connect that antenna directly to her TV to find out if she can receive the channel she wants with that antenna.


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## NR4P (Jan 16, 2007)

Athlon646464 said:


> I have a pre-amp due any day. I need it for a couple of channels that have weak and pixelating signals at times. For now, however, it seems to me the LCC has a slightly better tuner. It's close, but slightly better. The difference would be a 9 and an 8 if I were to rate them.
> 
> The LCC is now exhibiting the audio issue for me, as well as very jerky video at times. Both the LCC and AM21 are causing problems with scheduled recordings for me as well.
> 
> I've decided D*'s solution isn't ready for prime time (sorry for the pun), so I ordered a Tablo and drive for it from Amazon today.


When you have an audio issue or video jerky (its dropping frames), press Pause, then Play and problems will be gone. Same for both AM21 and LCC. Known cure since AM21's started this well before LCC's.

Also recorded shows do not exhibit these issues. Only live TV.


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## NR4P (Jan 16, 2007)

ziggy29 said:


> Hmm. I've noticed dropouts in the audio as well, I just chalked it up to a marginal signal. Does anyone who has used both the LCC and AM21 see a different in signal strength or ability to pick up some stations with one and not the other? Wondering about the strength of the tuners in the LCC.


Multipath rejection slightly better on LCC vs AM21.
Signal reception nearly identical between the two on UHF although AM21 reception is slightly better on VHF HIGH Band. That's 7-13 native channels.


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## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

I was on vacation but returned today to see cbs 3 Philly off of DirecTV. I called and they are supposedly sending an LCC within 3 to 4 business days. I’m supposed to get an email confirmation but nothing yet (called around 7 pm est, it’s now almost 11).

Hopefully it works because Philly station transmitters are about 50 miles east of me. I’m planning on putting the antenna in the attic probably in front of a gable vent.


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## ghostdog (Jul 6, 2007)

NR4P said:


> When you have an audio issue or video jerky (its dropping frames), press Pause, then Play and problems will be gone. Same for both AM21 and LCC. Known cure since AM21's started this well before LCC's.
> 
> Also recorded shows do not exhibit these issues. Only live TV.


I second this fix. Pause or rewind slightly & issue goes away.


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## captaink5217 (Sep 20, 2011)

NR4P said:


> When you have an audio issue or video jerky (its dropping frames), press Pause, then Play and problems will be gone. Same for both AM21 and LCC. Known cure since AM21's started this well before LCC's.
> 
> Also recorded shows do not exhibit these issues. Only live TV.


Thanks for the information about pausing for a moment, that has cured the video and audio skips, one thing though, it does happen for me on recorded shows also after I fast forward I have to pause recorded shows for a moment also and it cures the audio and video skips the same way.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

slice1900 said:


> Well the people who are wondering why they haven't released it yet, I guess there is your answer. Seems they still have a bug or two to fix.


If I know DirecTV and I think I do, my guess is the engineering focus, if there even is any, is to flesh out the database and maybe support to the HS17. I doubt they are even looking at the audio drop out issue. Seems like people have been reporting it for a while now and no fix...


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

MysteryMan said:


> I received my LCC via FedEx.


I got mine through FedEx, single boxed and with a broken seal, so the contents were almost spilling out. Quality.


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

slice1900 said:


> What I'd like to see is someone who has an antenna with a separate amplifier (not one with an amplifier built in, 99% of those are crap) that is needed (i.e. they are at least 40 miles away from the towers) sees better results with the AM21 or TV's built in tuner than the LCC.
> 
> The audio dropouts is one potential problem, but has NOTHING to do with the signal reception of the LCC if the video isn't dropping out at the same time. That pretty much has to be a software problem on the receiver, and not an issue with the LCC itself or the antenna. Either a problem in the way the audio is being decoded in the LCC driver, or in the audio pathway from the driver through the rest of the receiver's software stack.
> 
> The other potential problem are people who say they can pick up some channels with their TV's built in tuner or an AM21 but not the LCC. If after rebooting/resetting/etc. that remains the case, and a replacement LCC doesn't fix it, then that almost certainly is a signal reception problem. A signal can be too strong (if you can see the towers from your house this may be an issue) or too weak. An amplifier will 'fix' the noise in the signal (I don't mean correct, I mean set the level of noise to a constant so it can't be made worse by a low quality tuner) so that type of setup would be a good way to help determine where the problem lies.


I had to reboot my HR54 3 times before it even recognized the LCC. When I switched back to the AM21, I didn't have to reboot at all. The signal just came back. I'm not using the mouse pad antenna, but a legit one in the attic. There's definitely something wrong with the LCC itself.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

SledgeHammer said:


> I got mine through FedEx, single boxed and with a broken seal, so the contents were almost spilling out. Quality.


That sounds like FedEx. 

I had an overnight package go missing. Eventually FedEx admitted that it got caught between machinery and mangled and the sender sent a replacement item. FedEx was supposed to deliver the mangled box back to the seller ... they sent it to me. It looks like they dropped it out of a plane. They probably did ... with the plane on the tarmac ... then they ran over it. At least, that is how the box looked.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

SledgeHammer said:


> I got mine through FedEx, single boxed and with a broken seal, so the contents were almost spilling out. Quality.


Yeah, the box mine came in was pretty banged up but the contents were intact.


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## VARTV (Dec 14, 2006)

slice1900 said:


> What I'd like to see is someone who has an antenna with a separate amplifier (not one with an amplifier built in, 99% of those are crap) that is needed (i.e. they are at least 40 miles away from the towers) sees better results with the AM21 or TV's built in tuner than the LCC.


I'm 28 miles away from our local towers and use an amp with a ChannelMaster 4228 in the attic. Whatever the meter means on the on-air signal meter page, it was noticeably better numbers thru my LCC than the AM21. A quicker response to channel changing too. Anyone notice the LCC gets quite warm?


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## VARTV (Dec 14, 2006)

SledgeHammer said:


> I have a big 3 ft OTA antenna in the attic that was aimed with a compass. Goes down in wall to the living room over a dedicated RG6. HR54 HDMI output goes to a Denon AVR-X4200W and then to a LG B6. All with Monoprice 18Gbps HDMI cables.
> 
> LCC - audio / video glitch on ALL OTA channels every couple of seconds
> AM21 - 0 glitches, same setup...


I have to tell my wife when she puts on her soap (recorded with the LCC) to "tap tap" the play button and the video/audio goes away.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

VARTV said:


> I'm 28 miles away from our local towers and use an amp with a ChannelMaster 4228 in the attic. Whatever the meter means on the on-air signal meter page, it was noticeably better numbers thru my LCC than the AM21. A quicker response to channel changing too. Anyone notice the LCC gets quite warm?


Yes - it's hot for sure.


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## VARTV (Dec 14, 2006)

Athlon646464 said:


> Yes - it's hot for sure.


I initially had it "crammed" behind the wood filing cabinet. Not knowing about the audio/video "glitch" in the LCC, I was swapping out for another one (sent out by mistake from DIRECTV). That's when I found out it was hot.


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## GekkoDBS (Dec 5, 2015)

SledgeHammer said:


> I had to reboot my HR54 3 times before it even recognized the LCC. When I switched back to the AM21, I didn't have to reboot at all. The signal just came back. I'm not using the mouse pad antenna, but a legit one in the attic. There's definitely something wrong with the LCC itself.


The mouse pad antenna gets as many stations as a paperclip, worthless if you live further than thirty miles from the stations.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

VARTV said:


> I'm 28 miles away from our local towers and use an amp with a ChannelMaster 4228 in the attic. Whatever the meter means on the on-air signal meter page, it was noticeably better numbers thru my LCC than the AM21. A quicker response to channel changing too. Anyone notice the LCC gets quite warm?


Unfortunately the numbers on the two likely aren't comparable. I don't know what the LCC does, but some models of the AM21 have 85 as the top reading, others have 100. Even if the LCC uses the same scale, there's no way to know whether the threshold for the top reading is the same. So the only way to determine if there's a difference is the behavior with the same channels - where one can pick up channels that the other can't bring in stably or at all.

Quicker response to channel changing does indicate a better tuner, at least in signal acquisition.


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## captaink5217 (Sep 20, 2011)

The Mohu curve 50 worked better than the winegard leaf they provided, I’m also going to try the channel master smartenna amplified indoor but to be honest the Mohu curve 50 already works great with the LCC.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## trainman (Jan 9, 2008)

poppo said:


> I can't help but think the LCC is not set up to pick up VHF channels...


Just wanted to address this: the LCC and its supplied antenna _do_ pick up VHF channels.

(I ordered one Tuesday and received it Thursday -- L.A. has a number of VHF channels that I'm getting with it.)


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## jamieh1 (May 1, 2003)

I’ve got 2 LCC I was sent mine prior to the NEXSTAR dispute. First one had the audio glitch. So I had them send me another but it has the audio glitch also. Went back to my AM21 and there is not skip.


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## NR4P (Jan 16, 2007)

Let me repeat in case some have missed it. The audio glitches and video issues (i.e. dropped frames on fast sports) go back nearly 3 years with AM21's. It is not unique to LCC's.

Press pause, play and you can watch TV comfortably with LCC and AM21.
Change channels? Press pause, play again.

It is a Genie issue.


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## NR4P (Jan 16, 2007)

slice1900 said:


> Unfortunately the numbers on the two likely aren't comparable. I don't know what the LCC does, but some models of the AM21 have 85 as the top reading, others have 100. Even if the LCC uses the same scale, there's no way to know whether the threshold for the top reading is the same. So the only way to determine if there's a difference is the behavior with the same channels - where one can pick up channels that the other can't bring in stably or at all.
> 
> Quicker response to channel changing does indicate a better tuner, at least in signal acquisition.


VHF HI, AM21 is slightly better on weak signals.
Native VHF HI channels that are at best 50% watchable on LCC due to 50 mile range, are nearly 100% watchable on AM21. Genie signal strength will show 5-10 points higher on AM21 vs LCC (never at 85 or 100) on VHF HI low strength signals. T

No VHF LOW OTA to test (glad they are gone here)
UHF, no noticeable difference on distant marginal signals.


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

Well......after more fiddling, a RBR, numerous channel scans and trying different zip codes in my area, I got my LCC to work. The only channel I can’t get with it is my local NBC channel. They broadcast on channel 12 and my rooftop antenna is UHF only, but strangely enough I can pick up channels 8 (PBS) and 10 (Fox). One of these days I’ll upgrade it to a VHF/UHF one, its too hot now.

So if you’re having trouble with yours try doing what I did.

Thanks again to Athlon646464, MysteryMan and the many others that posted in this thread for your help.


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## R0am3r (Sep 20, 2008)

I was a big fan of the LCC until yesterday. My local Fox channel (WSYT - 68 in Syracuse) changed frequencies and has moved to UHF 14. The switch to a new channel and the update for the LCCs should have been easy for the Directv wizards. Unfortunately, when I tune to 68-1, it now tunes to my local NBC station (which is currently using UHF 24). I can't fathom why this would happen except they missed a digit (UHF 24 instead of UHF 14). To verify my sanity, I hooked up the antenna directly to the TV and scanned all of the Syracuse channels. Sure enough, WSYT is now transmitting on UHF 14. So yah, my LCC tunes to the wrong channel.


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## makaiguy (Sep 24, 2007)

R0am3r said:


> I was a big fan of the LCC until yesterday. My local Fox channel (WSYT - 68 in Syracuse) changed frequencies and has moved to UHF 14. The switch to a new channel and the update for the LCCs should have been easy for the Directv wizards. Unfortunately, when I tune to 68-1, it now tunes to my local NBC station (which is currently using UHF 24). I can't fathom why this would happen except they missed a digit (UHF 24 instead of UHF 14). To verify my sanity, I hooked up the antenna directly to the TV and scanned all of the Syracuse channels. Sure enough, WSYT is now transmitting on UHF 14. So yah, my LCC tunes to the wrong channel.


Did you rerun you off air antenna set up when tbe frequency changed?


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## compnurd (Apr 23, 2007)

R0am3r said:


> I was a big fan of the LCC until yesterday. My local Fox channel (WSYT - 68 in Syracuse) changed frequencies and has moved to UHF 14. The switch to a new channel and the update for the LCCs should have been easy for the Directv wizards. Unfortunately, when I tune to 68-1, it now tunes to my local NBC station (which is currently using UHF 24). I can't fathom why this would happen except they missed a digit (UHF 24 instead of UHF 14). To verify my sanity, I hooked up the antenna directly to the TV and scanned all of the Syracuse channels. Sure enough, WSYT is now transmitting on UHF 14. So yah, my LCC tunes to the wrong channel.


You need to rescan. This has nothing to do LCC.


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## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

Can I mount the antenna that is provided with the LCC in the attic, or is it weatherproof and should I (can I) mount it outside? I’m about 36 miles west of Roxborough area where the Philadelphia market TV / Radio antenna farm is located.


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## sstv (Jul 30, 2006)

cypherx said:


> Can I mount the antenna that is provided with the LCC in the attic, or is it weatherproof and should I (can I) mount it outside? I'm about 36 miles west of Roxborough area where the Philadelphia market TV / Radio antenna farm is located.


This antenna is for indoor use and I don't know how it would weather outside. How would you mount it outside? Attic would work. As close as you are to the transmitters, any window facing toward them should work OK for mounting. Use "Scotch tape"and hang it at the top of the window.
SSTV


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## R0am3r (Sep 20, 2008)

compnurd said:


> You need to rescan. This has nothing to do LCC.


I disagree. I ran the setup multiple times with no fix. Some time this morning, it started working. I am guessing the Directv gurus finally fixed the problem. I envision the fix as sending the correct metadata to my HR44 to point to the correct UHF channel number.

Two more channels in the Syracuse market will change frequencies this week. I can't wait to see how this will work out.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

TheRatPatrol said:


> Well......after more fiddling, a RBR, numerous channel scans and trying different zip codes in my area, I got my LCC to work. The only channel I can't get with it is my local NBC channel. They broadcast on channel 12 and my rooftop antenna is UHF only, but strangely enough I can pick up channels 8 (PBS) and 10 (Fox). One of these days I'll upgrade it to a VHF/UHF one, its too hot now.
> 
> So if you're having trouble with yours try doing what I did.
> 
> Thanks again to Athlon646464, MysteryMan and the many others that posted in this thread for your help.


Great news. Happy you sorted it out!


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## NR4P (Jan 16, 2007)

R0am3r said:


> I was a big fan of the LCC until yesterday. My local Fox channel (WSYT - 68 in Syracuse) changed frequencies and has moved to UHF 14. The switch to a new channel and the update for the LCCs should have been easy for the Directv wizards. Unfortunately, when I tune to 68-1, it now tunes to my local NBC station (which is currently using UHF 24). I can't fathom why this would happen except they missed a digit (UHF 24 instead of UHF 14). To verify my sanity, I hooked up the antenna directly to the TV and scanned all of the Syracuse channels. Sure enough, WSYT is now transmitting on UHF 14. So yah, my LCC tunes to the wrong channel.


Before you rescan, you need to reset all OTA channels. Effectively removing all OTA channels. Then rescan, that will fix the old/new channel assignments.


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

In some cases I have found you also have to Reset all OTA, then Reboot the box, then rescan. Reboot really helps


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## R0am3r (Sep 20, 2008)

Thanks for the feedback. A reboot was also a good idea since my HR44 received the 0x1214 update on Friday.


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## cpalmer2k (May 24, 2010)

I finally had a chance to hook up my LCC today and so far it isn't working very well at all. I put in my primary and secondary zip codes, let it do its thing, and when I pull up the guide only two stations were "found"- our local ABC affiliate and a PBS station. Neither are strong signals at all for me. As a matter of fact it isn't picking up ANY locals my TV or TiVo/HDHomeRun devices pick up at all! When I tried to go into the OTA setup menu again the "Edit Antenna Channels" option is grayed out. Is that normal with the LCC? I know on the old AM21N you could choose the stations you wanted to include. 

I know the locals I'm missing are coming in strong. I can view the signal strengths of the same antenna using the Signal app and my HDHomeRun, so I know signal isn't the issue.


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## makaiguy (Sep 24, 2007)

cpalmer2k said:


> I finally had a chance to hook up my LCC today and so far it isn't working very well at all. I put in my primary and secondary zip codes, let it do its thing, and when I pull up the guide only two stations were "found"- our local ABC affiliate and a PBS station. Neither are strong signals at all for me. As a matter of fact it isn't picking up ANY locals my TV or TiVo/HDHomeRun devices pick up at all! When I tried to go into the OTA setup menu again the "Edit Antenna Channels" option is grayed out. Is that normal with the LCC? I know on the old AM21N you could choose the stations you wanted to include.
> 
> I know the locals I'm missing are coming in strong. I can view the signal strengths of the same antenna using the Signal app and my HDHomeRun, so I know signal isn't the issue.


Go into the off air antenna set up and hit Reset Settings to clear everything out. When it finishes, go back in and go thru the Start Setup routine again. When THAT finishes hit 'Watch TV' (or some similar wording). Finally, go back in yet again and Edit Antenna Channels' should now be active.


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## makaiguy (Sep 24, 2007)

makaiguy said:


> Hooked it up and was pleasantly surprised with the reception with the included Winegard flat antenna mounted to an interior wall near my HR-44.


I don't have access to a window on the side of my house facing the broadcast towers so I had to settle on an internal wall location for the Winegard antenna, where signals had to pass through an outer brick wall and two internal wood frame walls with drywall. Tried all sorts of positions and was surprised to find my best reception was with the antenna laid down flat on a high shelf. Two of my main locals (and their subs) came in very well, and since one of them was my only missing dispute station, I just went with it.

Today I managed to hook up a powered Radio Shack indoor/outdoor antenna in my attic that I used to use with my former HR20 a bunch of years ago, and it brings in all the locals with "green" signal strengths 95-100, and one low powered station I'd never even seen before.


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## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

sstv said:


> This antenna is for indoor use and I don't know how it would weather outside. How would you mount it outside? Attic would work. As close as you are to the transmitters, any window facing toward them should work OK for mounting. Use "Scotch tape"and hang it at the top of the window.
> SSTV


I just received the LCC today. I don't think I can mount it in the attic because it has that usb power amplifier and the bozo's that designed it are using a proprietary cable without f connectors on each end of the amplifier. Had it been RG59 or 6 I could just cut and put some ends on (I have tools and ends for both), however this white coaxial cable is very thin, almost like WiFi antenna cable seen inside of access points.

I don't have an always on power outlet in the attic. I have a light socket controlled by a pull chain, and I could get a light socket Y adapter and light socket outlet converter, but I do not want to keep the attic light on 24/7. I would have liked to insert power on the coax for the amplifier down by the receiver, but it's too close to the antenna. I'll try it in my living room window and if it gets something then maybe I will purchase a larger antenna I can mount to some joists in the attic and do it right.


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## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

Ok I tested the LCC antenna first with my tv’s internal tuner. I can only get stations from the back of the house which makes sense since that is facing east towards the Philadelphia locals. I cannot get Allentown but I can get a pixelates channel 8 (nbc) from Lancaster. I did tape it to a gable vent in the attic and for now I have an extension cord running down the attic door into an outlet in the hallway. I have an attic fan that never worked since we moved in in 2010, so I think I’m going to head to Lowe’s and get a new work box and outlet, cut that electrical line and terminate it into a new duplex outlet for the amplifier. Without power the tv gets nothing.

I’m trying the DirecTV scan and after somewhat of an eternity loading the zip code, it’s doing a progress bar downloading guide data. We’ll see if it works. If so I’ll head to Lowe’s next.


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## makaiguy (Sep 24, 2007)

cypherx said:


> I'm trying the DirecTV scan and after somewhat of an eternity loading the zip code...


I've not seen this mentioned, but the zip code lookup DOES take a long time. I've done this set up several times and I just go do something else til my location is confirmed. I'm guessing this is done by monitoring a continuously downloading loop of zip code data, and waiting until the zip you're looking for rolls by.


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

cypherx said:


> Ok I tested the LCC antenna first with my tv's internal tuner. I can only get stations from the back of the house which makes sense since that is facing east towards the Philadelphia locals. I cannot get Allentown but I can get a pixelates channel 8 (nbc) from Lancaster. I did tape it to a gable vent in the attic and for now I have an extension cord running down the attic door into an outlet in the hallway. I have an attic fan that never worked since we moved in in 2010, so I think I'm going to head to Lowe's and get a new work box and outlet, cut that electrical line and terminate it into a new duplex outlet for the amplifier. Without power the tv gets nothing.
> 
> I'm trying the DirecTV scan and after somewhat of an eternity loading the zip code, it's doing a progress bar downloading guide data. We'll see if it works. If so I'll head to Lowe's next.


If you can't put one outside, and already have a coax cable going to the attic above the garage, I would just purchase an OTA antenna and place it in there. It would save you from have to wire power up there. My parents have one in the space above their garage and it works fine.


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## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

I'm getting a few channels, cbs included in the yellow 40-50% strength. There's some random stutter and pixelation so we will see how it does at night. I think signals propagate better at night If I recall.

I did put an outlet in the attic, there's a lot of electrical to tie into. Plus this helps if I need to run a work light up there, whereas before I always ran a long extension cord from the hallway. There's no signal without the power connection, so if I replace the antenna I will likely put a preamp off of that outlet anyway.

I'm thinking of the $40 RCA antenna with really good reviews on Amazon

TV Antenna - RCA Outdoor Yagi Satellite HD Antenna w/ 150 Mile Range (70+ Miles from Broadcast Epicenter) Attic or Roof Mount TV Antenna, Long Range Digital OTA Antenna for Clear Reception, 4K 1080P https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0024R4B5C/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_A42pDbZGPZKCH

Plus whatever highest reviewed amp I can get. I have a lot of trees on the east side, plus being in an attic doesn't help. If all of that doesn't work, I'll mount it outside on the facia since it's in my backyard.


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

cypherx said:


> I'm getting a few channels, cbs included in the yellow 40-50% strength. There's some random stutter and pixelation so we will see how it does at night. I think signals propagate better at night If I recall.
> 
> I did put an outlet in the attic, there's a lot of electrical to tie into. Plus this helps if I need to run a work light up there, whereas before I always ran a long extension cord from the hallway. There's no signal without the power connection, so if I replace the antenna I will likely put a preamp off of that outlet anyway.
> 
> ...


I have the good ol' classic Channel Master 4228 in my attic. It's a passive antenna and I can pull LA stations from 45 miles away.


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## sstv (Jul 30, 2006)

Well, LCC number 3 is on its way. It seems that after a brief problem checkout, they send you another LCC. I kept telling them the LCC was fine, but they insisted on a new LCC. So whats the problem, my local CBS over the air is a blank screen, but its sub channels are OK. All the other channels are OK. Many long telephone calls did not solve the problem. Sitting here in total frustration, I reset the HR54 and my local over the air CBS came back. I think I got a sick 54. I will call DTV tomorrow for a Tech call. I think 3 LCC's is some kind of record. I feel bad that some can't get one and I got 3.
SSTV


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## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

Any idea why the channel logo for 3-1 KYW cbs is weird?










There's a little too much picture breakup anyway I think I'm going to get that RCA antenna along with an amp like this one:

Skywalker Signature Series SKY38323 25dB Amplifier VHF/UHF/FM w/variable gain (SKY38323) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008UDF55E/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_uM4pDbXPSHEHF:

Also funny enough on CBS3 news they said to rescan for the channels August 1st. How do I do that so DirecTV finds the new frequency? Maybe I should wait to buy an antenna until August 1st because maybe the new frequency is better. I know very few people can get channel 6 (ABC) in our area even though it's in the same antenna farm as the other Philly stations, because it's on VHF Lo. Hopefully CBS doesn't go down there!


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## jamieh1 (May 1, 2003)

cypherx said:


> Any idea why the channel logo for 3-1 KYW cbs is weird?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


All the CBS stations have that logo, except the HD it's been wrong for a long time.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

cypherx said:


> I'm thinking of the $40 RCA antenna with really good reviews on Amazon
> 
> TV Antenna - RCA Outdoor Yagi Satellite HD Antenna w/ 150 Mile Range (70+ Miles from Broadcast Epicenter) Attic or Roof Mount TV Antenna, Long Range Digital OTA Antenna for Clear Reception, 4K 1080P https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0024R4B5C/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_A42pDbZGPZKCH


That may be a good antenna, but I really have an issue with those claims. Here's the description of that antenna on Amazon:

*TV Antenna - RCA Outdoor Yagi Satellite HD Antenna w/ 150 Mile Range (70+ Miles from Broadcast Epicenter) Attic or Roof Mount TV Antenna, Long Range Digital OTA Antenna for Clear Reception, 4K 1080P*

Even if you lived in a perfectly flat area with no buildings or trees, with the curvature of the Earth, unless you have a 50' tower the signal cannot reach 150 miles. What they are really saying is if you live exactly in the middle of two towers that are in completely opposite directions from you and they are each 75 miles from you, you have a 150 mile antenna.

There is no such thing as a digital antenna.

Except for a couple of experimental stations, no one is broadcasting a 4K 1080P signal. If you lived where they are doing that, you couldn't see it anyway because there are no tuners yet on the market for that.

They really have to do something about these claims - all they do is confuse many consumers.


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## sanpablo (Sep 7, 2007)

NR4P said:


> Before you rescan, you need to reset all OTA channels. Effectively removing all OTA channels. Then rescan, that will fix the old/new channel assignments.


 I lost my local antenna channels through my AM21-(HR54) after last
Thursdays software upgrade (1214) I tried resetting antenna settings and rebooting receiver. Still nothing. My HR24-AM21 setups are still working.
Anyone else have this happen?
thanks


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## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

Thanks Athlon646464, yes there are a lot of buzzwords in the post, but it has over 5000 reviews, and its a reasonable size if it doesn't work inside the attic, I could mount it on the facia board in my back yard facing east.

However I'm intregued by the Channel Master 4228HD as seen here: https://www.amazon.com/Channel-Master-CM-4228HD-High-Antenna/dp/B000FVVKQM

There are other people online that have positive things to say about it. Now this is one that I would keep in the attic, but to overcome signal loss from being indoors (and cable runs) I would consider a preamp, possibly the winegard one.

Last night CBS3 was around 60% signal quality, and the good old pause wait 2 seconds, play trick helped smooth out the playback (and eliminate audio stutters). I realize signals propigate better at night without the sun's influence on the ionosphere. Its why CB'ers "shoot skip" or HAMs make contact over long distances at night, or AM radio stations are required to reduce output power. I have a lot of trees in my back yard so during the hot summer day its most likely the best time to fine tune the antenna since the leaves are full and the sun is strong. Hence a good 20% swing (40% to 60%).

Plus I think I got the bug. As an IT hobbyist I almost want to get another antenna just because its fun to tinker and heck maybe split it into my SDR and see what else I can pick up on it.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

cypherx said:


> Thanks Athlon646464, yes there are a lot of buzzwords in the post, but it has over 5000 reviews, and its a reasonable size if it doesn't work inside the attic, I could mount it on the facia board in my back yard facing east.
> 
> However I'm intregued by the Channel Master 4228HD as seen here: https://www.amazon.com/Channel-Master-CM-4228HD-High-Antenna/dp/B000FVVKQM
> 
> ...


Yup - could be a great antenna in your location - it was the BS hype that annoyed me.

I just installed a Tablo because of my frustration with the LCC and AM21 on my HR54. A couple of stations were 'on the edge' for me (pixelation every few minutes), so I installed this pre-amp on my attic antenna:

RCA 16dB VHF 22dB UHF Outdoor TV Antenna Signal Preamplifier (TVPRAMP1R) from Solid Signal

All is good now.

By the way, the tuner in the Tablo was already receiving more channels than either the AM21 or the LCC was even before I hooked up that pre-amp.

Over at the Tablo forums they seem to be raving about the Antop antennas a lot, specifically the Antop AT-400B. Seems expensive, but the pre-amp is built in.


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## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

Athlon646464 said:


> Yup - could be a great antenna in your location - it was the BS hype that annoyed me.
> 
> I just installed a Tablo because of my frustration with the LCC and AM21 on my HR54. A couple of stations were 'on the edge' for me (pixelation every few minutes), so I installed this pre-amp on my attic antenna:
> 
> ...


That Antop looks like a wifi sector antenna. I still think sometning with a lot of open elements should work really well. I'm still reading a bit about everything and if I go with the CM 4228HD I just have to measure my attic pull down steps and opening and ensure I can get the thing up there. I would probobly prop it up against my east facing attic wall right at the gable vent. Its vinyl and you can see daylight through it so there should be some semblance of signal able to pass through there.


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## poppo (Oct 10, 2006)

poppo said:


> Nope. Only one 2-1. The x-1 is almost always the main channel. She has some other channels that have some sub channels, but not for 2. Additionally, under edit OTA channels 2-1 is not even listed even though it is displaying in the guide. We have re-run the setup a few times. The only thing that is different about CBS is it is on a VHF frequency.
> 
> EDIT. I think I know what the problem may be. CBS is also on UHF (virtual channel 48.3) but the LCC setup does not list any OTA 48-x channels. So it may be an issue with the directv OTA database. Hopefully when people in the Chicago area who lost CBS start getting the LCCs and complaining, they will fix it.
> 
> If anyone in the Chicago area has the LCC working for CBS, please post how you got it to work.


Sorry it took a while to respond to my previous posts regarding CBS in Chicago, as my friend was out of town for the weekend which prevented any further testing. To recap, CBS in Chicago is broadcast on VHF ch 2 AND UHF ch 48. The LCC shows channel 2-1 but only displays a DirecTV logo (and 2-1 does not even show up in the edit channel list). Ch 48 is not listed at all.

Just for the heck of it, we ran the whole setup yet again (including resetting everything and rebooting as we did many times last week). This time 48-1 48-2 & 48-3 are available. Since nothing else changed, I assume DirecTV updated something in their database.


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## sanpablo (Sep 7, 2007)

sanpablo said:


> I lost my local antenna channels through my AM21-(HR54) after last
> Thursdays software upgrade (1214) I tried resetting antenna settings and rebooting receiver. Still nothing. My HR24-AM21 setups are still working.
> Anyone else have this happen?
> thanks


 Well, called DirecTV today to try and get a LCC. At first sounded
like no problem but the CSR could not complete the order. Referred me
to www.nocable.org, said I might be able to order a LCC there. No luck
there. No need to bring up the fact that DirecTV customer service is very
bad now since AT&T takeover!.


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## poppo (Oct 10, 2006)

sanpablo said:


> Well, called DirecTV today to try and get a LCC. At first sounded like no problem but the CSR could not complete the order.


If you are in a blackout area, ask for the customer loyalty dept. When I first tried to order mine, the regular CS could not get the system to accept the order. The loyalty dept was able to do it and I had it in two days. But that was before this last flood of requests.


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## makaiguy (Sep 24, 2007)

When I tried to order I was given a Tech Support number to call. Went right thru and the guy knew what he was doing. Don't know if it makes any difference but my account is one that was recently moved from Directv to ATT. 844-822-3352.


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## philherz (May 3, 2008)

I rec'd an LCC a 3 or 4 weeks ago and everything worked fine until Monday, when the local CBS station that I'd lost had to change frequencies and transmission antennas.

I went thru the rescan process twice, but the channel I need to watch, CBS OTA (4.1), still shows in the D* guide as 4.1, but is actually channel 29.3.

One of the weakest channels suggested that I download the Winegard app, but I have no idea how to do that or what that might accomplish.

thnx


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## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

Philadelphia market is apparently shuffling a few channels around I think tomorrow between 1 and 3 pm. One of them is CBS. This is probably the worst timing. My speculation is when you run the OTA setup and enter the zip code, it pulls down a database of frequencies. So if DirecTV doesn’t update these channel frequencies, were all SOL.

What should the process be... completely clear everything, reboot the genie and then attempt to set it up from scratch? I hope I still can receive CBS when they move. It’s only moving a few channels up, but I have to wonder if they will be allowed to run at full power right away once they do the frequency shift.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

cypherx said:


> it pulls down a database of *frequencies*.


You are did push me to a memory blackout for a second ! 
I went to recheck and found... No such value in there, sorry.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

P Smith said:


> You are did push me to a memory blackout for a second !
> I went to recheck and found... No such value in there, sorry.


Physical channel? Virtual channel?


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

for all OTA records...
Perhaps some interesting in one particular to dig into ?

One value could help here - TID as RF channel#, but a frequency is totally missing from APG records.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

philherz said:


> One of the weakest channels suggested that I download the Winegard app, but I have no idea how to do that or what that might accomplish.


I have it on my iPhone. It helps you point your antenna at the towers you want, using augmented reality. The towers for the various stations sort of 'float' over what your phone's camera is seeing on your phone's screen when you point at them. It works, and you don't need a Winegard antenna to use it.

Here's a link to the app:

‎Winegard - TV Signal Finder


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## grover517 (Sep 29, 2007)

Athlon646464 said:


> I have it on my iPhone. It helps you point your antenna at the towers you want, using augmented reality. The towers for the various stations sort of 'float' over what your phone's camera is seeing on your phone's screen when you point at them. It works, and you don't need a Winegard antenna to use it.
> 
> Here's a link to the app:
> 
> ‎Winegard - TV Signal Finder


Also available on Android but named Winegard Tower Finder. Thanks Athlon646464!


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## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

So then how do I initiate a rescan? I thought guide data told the system where in the RF spectrum the channels were, then if the LCC could pull the signal in on those frequencies, they displayed in the guide. I think this afternoon is the time of the frequency changes. Its a pretty massive coordination effort for quite a few markets up and down the northeast coast.

The rescan is easy on my TV. There's a menu for it and you just sit back and watch the progress bar move while you see the # of digital channels found slowly increment. I can always move the coax from the LCC to my TV and do a test if I have issues. I was able to watch CBS last night, a few pixilation and stutters every so often, but for the most part watchable. I think a bigger antenna would cure the random blocking and stuttering. Direct to my TV, it shows 4 out of 10 bars for signal strenth. The LCC shows around 40-60% depending on time of day. I hope when they shift frequencies it doesn't make it any worse. I'm holding off on purchasing a bigger antenna until the frequencies are changed just to see how it all pans out. The LCC was free. My only investment was about $30 in material to install a power outlet in my attic for the Winegard inline amplifier. I completed that on Monday when I installed it in the gable vent.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

cypherx said:


> So then how do I initiate a rescan?


For your LCC or AM21 - Go to Settings/Satellite and Antenna

It's in there somewhere (not near a TV atm).


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## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

Thanks! I thought DirecTV was responsible for downloading what channels are on what frequencies, so in essence we would be SOL until they updated the channel map. I don't remember seeing a channel scanning progress bar when doing this procedure like on either of our TV's when I was testing the antenna placement before connecting it to the LCC. I just remember it hung on the zip code screen for a good 20 minutes.

I also think they should reword that or add another button in Over-the-Air antenna setup. They should add a Rescan button on there. When I see start setup I think of initial setup, like installing the LCC for the very first time.

Local Channel Connector

Helpful Hint: You should rescan your over-the-air channels at least once a month to find available channels, including newly added or changed ones.

To rescan your over-the-air channels:


Go to Menu > Settings
Scroll to the right and click OK on Sat & Antenna
In the Satellite Dish & Antenna Setup menu, select Over-the-Air Antenna Setup > Start Setup
Follow the on-screen instructions.


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

sanpablo said:


> Well, called DirecTV today to try and get a LCC. At first sounded
> like no problem but the CSR could not complete the order. Referred me
> to www.nocable.org, said I might be able to order a LCC there. No luck
> there. No need to bring up the fact that DirecTV customer service is very
> bad now since AT&T takeover!.





poppo said:


> If you are in a blackout area, ask for the customer loyalty dept. When I first tried to order mine, the regular CS could not get the system to accept the order. The loyalty dept was able to do it and I had it in two days. But that was before this last flood of requests.


@poppo if @sanpablo location info is correct on their profile then they are in the New York DMA which is a disputed DMA (WCBS-CBS) which caused the CBS DNS feed to switched to the WUSA-CBS Washington, DC feed owned by Tenga, Inc. so @sanpablo is eligible to get a LCC as long as they have an HR44 or HR54 Genie. The only thing I can think of is if he has a HR34 or HS17 Genie or any other receiver then the ordering system won't let a CSR order a LCC. If you do have an HR44 or 54 I would call back and ask for customer loyalty and they will order it for you.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

cypherx said:


> I thought *guide data* told the system where in the RF spectrum the channels were


the APG provide a RF channel number... I would guess the conversion RFch# to Freq is built in LCC/AM21 firmware.


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## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

They moved channels now CBS 3 in philly is not receivable. Just great. Bouncing between 0 and 26%. There are also duplicates of a bunch of channels now. When I try the second 3-1 it comes in a little bit breaks up like crazy. On AVSForums Kyle posted how they are all having problems in the philly market and only NBC10 is operating at full power. What a terrible time to do the swap right during a dispute. If they F it up then they should allow CBS on direcTV until they fix the OTA. They shouldn’t be allowed to charge anything for retransmission if they can’t even get their broadcast signals right. They had plenty of notice from the FCC, so what happened to careful planning and off hours testing windows!


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

cypherx said:


> They moved channels now CBS 3 in philly is not receivable. Just great. Bouncing between 0 and 26%. There are also duplicates of a bunch of channels now. When I try the second 3-1 it comes in a little bit breaks up like crazy. On AVSForums Kyle posted how they are all having problems in the philly market and only NBC10 is operating at full power. What a terrible time to do the swap right during a dispute. If they F it up then they should allow CBS on direcTV until they fix the OTA. They shouldn't be allowed to charge anything for retransmission if they can't even get their broadcast signals right. They had plenty of notice from the FCC, so what happened to careful planning and off hours testing windows!


Those stations currently operating at a 'lower' power are doing it intentionally. Rather than build a new temporary full power tower while they upgrade or change their existing permanent tower's equipment would be (in their view) a waste of money. So, many of them are renting 'space' on a low power tower while they do the work of converting their equipment. It's not like just flipping a switch. No one wants to crawl up there while it's on.

It's just a bad coincidence for those affected by a dispute, for sure. This was planned long before that.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Athlon646464 said:


> for those affected by a dispute, for sure. This was planned long before that.


Who could envisioned that dispute(s) planned in advance?


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

P Smith said:


> Who could envisioned that dispute(s) planned in advance?


The parties involved.


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## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

I thought part of the repack phase is that they moved to a lower power tower while they worked on the regular tower, then yesterday they would switch back to their regular tower. Our market looks to be in Phase 4 listed here:
Transition Schedule

I thought anywhere in the medium blue (Planning and Construction) phase, which is the longest they would have switched from primary facilities to backup facilities while they worked on changing out the primary facilities. The deadline to be done is August 2nd, which is today. I would think if that is the deadline, all stations in this phase need to be operating at normal power from main facilities at new frequencies. That's why its called a deadline. If they hold things up I would think the FCC could fine them. All that temporary low power stuff should have been done in the medium (construction) and dark blue (testing) phases, which the FCC gave these stations PLENTY of time. Imagine if there were no deadlines. Things would be held up, then this precious spectrum (what is it.. RF 38-52?) can't be used for 5G.

I still need to reset the OTA and rescan to eliminate all the duplicate channels they added, but I can't seem to do that when the signal conditons are best (at night) because it always warns me that it will cancel other recordings. Why does it care about cancling recordings that are running on SATTELITE tuners when I am just wanting to scan OTA is beyond me. Seems like it was programmed quickly without much budget or thought just to get ahead of these contract disputes. While I am thankful that this feature even exists (to incorporate OTA into our DVR's), I think there is definitely room for improvement in the software. Thinks like checking signal levels, rescanning, long wait times when entering zip codes (sometimes even freezing until you reset) all could be improved. Theres no reason if you have at least 1 OTA tuner not being watched anywhere or recording anything, the system can't check the levels using that tuner or do a full band scan.

The channels that moved in our market are duplicated, likely due to the naming. For example:
3-1 KYWDT (Original channel 3 - now just says signal loss, which I understand because its no longer on this frequency)
3-1 KYW-DT (New channel 3 - low signal, works intermittently but duplicated in the guide because now they put a dash in between the call sign and DT. The guide shows "Regular Schedule"
3-2 KYWDT2 (Original channel 3.2 - signal loss)
3-2 StartTV (New channel 3.2 - KYW's StartTV affiliate programming).

(Simular situation for channels 10 and 65 in our market).

Whats interesting is Tivo OTA users are reporting the same thing... duplication in their guide with those slight channel name changes with no program information on the new working channels. When I plug the OTA feed directly into my TV and scan, I get the same channels as the LCC but when I push INFO on my Samsung TV remote, I get program title and its description.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

cypherx said:


> I thought part of the repack phase is that they moved to a lower power tower while they worked on the regular tower, then yesterday they would switch back to their regular tower


My earlier post was a very simplified description of what is happening out there. The issues you are experiencing are a combination of things not going as planned at some of the stations in your market (they're having technical issues that should be ironed out soon) and the 'wonkyness' of the LCC (not ready for prime time).

At most local stations, by the way, the engineers are happy to speak to you when you have issues with their signal. Try calling them to find out what's happening on their end.


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## philherz (May 3, 2008)

grover517 said:


> Also available on Android but named Winegard Tower Finder. Thanks Athlon646464!


Thanks, I'll have to give it a try.


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## philherz (May 3, 2008)

philherz said:


> I rec'd an LCC a 3 or 4 weeks ago and everything worked fine until Monday, when the local CBS station that I'd lost had to change frequencies and transmission antennas.
> 
> I went thru the rescan process twice, but the channel I need to watch, CBS OTA (4.1), still shows in the D* guide as 4.1, but is actually channel 29.3.
> 
> thnx


Soooo, after reading more in this thread, it seems likely that my problem might be that D* hasn't changed the way they think these locals are assigned since they switched frequencies on 7/29, right?


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## philherz (May 3, 2008)

cypherx said:


> Thanks! I thought DirecTV was responsible for downloading what channels are on what frequencies, so in essence we would be SOL until they updated the channel map.


Any idea how long it can take D* to update the channel map?


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

philherz said:


> Any idea how long it can take D* to update the channel map?


I believe they've been doing that for the past two years, and they are not even done with the current map (about 95% complete).


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

philherz said:


> Soooo, after reading more in this thread, it seems likely that my problem might be that D* hasn't changed the way they think these locals are assigned since they switched frequencies on 7/29, right?


I don't believe the channel map matters. If you do a setup / scan in the antenna menu it will find the new frequency for your local station without Directv needing to update anything on their end. Probably it is something like Athlon64 says, where they weren't able to cut over to the new frequency instantly, but are using a temporary antenna (which may be much lower power or located somewhere else your antenna can't pick up too well) while they get the new permanent one set up.

This isn't a simple thing like flipping some switches for them. The "antenna" they use is specific to a channel number, weighs hundreds of pounds, and needs to be lifted 1000+ feet in the air on their tower (after first most likely bringing the old one down) That's not a job they can do in an afternoon, especially if the weather isn't cooperating (rain, wind, etc.)

I wouldn't be surprised if in some cases you have a situation like a Sinclair owned station is going from UHF 22 to VHF 12, and another is going from UHF 41 to UHF 22, so they take that UHF 22 module down from the tower, load it on a truck, and drive it over to the other station. Then you have dependencies for the weather etc. of two stations involved. I imagine this is a pretty complex logistical problem that has been worked on for months in advance, but sometimes the best laid plans... Just hope if that's the situation with you they didn't drop and damage the antenna you need. It takes months to build these, and orders are no doubt backlogged for a long time due to the repack.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

slice1900 said:


> I don't believe the channel map matters. If you do a setup / scan in the antenna menu it will find the new frequency for your local station without Directv needing to update anything on their end. Probably it is something like Athlon64 says, where they weren't able to cut over to the new frequency instantly, but are using a temporary antenna (which may be much lower power or located somewhere else your antenna can't pick up too well) while they get the new permanent one set up.
> 
> This isn't a simple thing like flipping some switches for them. The "antenna" they use is specific to a channel number, weighs hundreds of pounds, and needs to be lifted 1000+ feet in the air on their tower (after first most likely bringing the old one down) That's not a job they can do in an afternoon, especially if the weather isn't cooperating (rain, wind, etc.)
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised if in some cases you have a situation like a Sinclair owned station is going from UHF 22 to VHF 12, and another is going from UHF 41 to UHF 22, so they take that UHF 22 module down from the tower, load it on a truck, and drive it over to the other station. Then you have dependencies for the weather etc. of two stations involved. I imagine this is a pretty complex logistical problem that has been worked on for months in advance, but sometimes the best laid plans... Just hope if that's the situation with you they didn't drop and damage the antenna you need. It takes months to build these, and orders are no doubt backlogged for a long time due to the repack.


@slice1900 - If you want your head to explode, take a look at the article I read this morning about this. As you and I said in our posts, it is indeed a little more complicated than flipping a switch.

It's more like setting up dominoes and waiting for each one to fall one at a time, except they are dealing with tall towers, hundreds of pounds of equipment and the weather - and - relying on stations over a 1,000 miles way to get it done first!

NorthEast Radio Watch 6/24/2019: Here Comes the Repack


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

And then there's this...

This morning we discovered our Tablo was having difficulties receiving WBZ-TV, our local CBS station. (The reason I now have a Tablo.) I knew today was the deadline for this repack round for WBZ, so I figured it had something to do with what Slice & I have been saying on this page.

That's what caused me to do a little more research - and that's how I found the article I link to in my previous post.

Well - it's none of that (at least not as of the time of this post). It's this:

WBZ-TV Transmission Update


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

Just got this email from AT&T (I like a little chuckle now and then):

Hi XXXX,

Just checking in to be sure you're enjoying local programming with your new Local Channel Connector.

We know you want access to local channels. We want that too. Your Local Channel Connector can be the perfect link to a seamless DIRECTV experience.

If it's not set up yet, we can help!

Here are some suggestions:








Review the Quick Start Guide we sent with the device for step-by-step directions and troubleshooting tips.







Check out our short "how-to" video and other support materials online at directv.com/lcc







Call us at 800.531.5000 and one of our helpful agents will walk you through the set-up.

Thanks for choosing us,

*AT&T*


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## philherz (May 3, 2008)

Now I'm really getting confused!

If I want to watch CBS OTA (4.1) and it still shows in the D* guide as 4.1, but when I tune to it, it's actually showing what's on channel 29.3, what do I do?

Keep moving my antenna, rescan, and hope for the best?

Wait for the dispute to get settled?

Call D* customer service and talk to someone who's even more confused than I am?

Punt?


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

philherz said:


> Now I'm really getting confused!
> 
> If I want to watch CBS OTA (4.1) and it still shows in the D* guide as 4.1, but when I tune to it, it's actually showing what's on channel 29.3, what do I do?
> 
> Keep moving my antenna, rescan, and hope for the best?


What channel is your disputed CBS station on if you were to hook your antenna to your TV?

4.1 or 29.3?

What market are you in?

Regardless, we'll likely suggest you keep re-scanning until you get lucky (unless you live where D*'s guide is incorrect).

Btw, I punted.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Athlon646464 said:


> @slice1900 - If you want your head to explode, take a look at the article I read this morning about this. As you and I said in our posts, it is indeed a little more complicated than flipping a switch.
> 
> It's more like setting up dominoes and waiting for each one to fall one at a time, except they are dealing with tall towers, hundreds of pounds of equipment and the weather - and - relying on stations over a 1,000 miles way to get it done first!
> 
> NorthEast Radio Watch 6/24/2019: Here Comes the Repack


Yikes, that sounds like another reason for stations to be at lower power for a bit - then they won't interfere with neighboring stations so they don't need to coordinate with a dozen other stations to move at the same time if some of them have delays for one reason or another.

I assume they must have written a computer program to figure all this out, there's no way a person came up with such a complicated dance.


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## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

Wow what a completed choreographed dance across RF spectrum with so many parties involved, just to clear some room down the road for wireless. The more they pack em tight, how will they find room for ATSC 3.0 I wonder. I hate VHF, you need a massive antenna for
it, so that is not the answer in my opinion. 

Amazing so many stations are able to agree and make these switches in the right sequence and order. One wrong move can throw the whole thing off.

I guess it’s time to price out CBS All-Access. Try to justify how many months I would need to pay for that, vs a good $100 or more on a better antenna. I just like the convenience of everything being on one input, once DVR for simplicity.


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

Athlon646464 said:


> @slice1900 - If you want your head to explode, take a look at the article I read this morning about this. As you and I said in our posts, it is indeed a little more complicated than flipping a switch.
> 
> It's more like setting up dominoes and waiting for each one to fall one at a time, except they are dealing with tall towers, hundreds of pounds of equipment and the weather - and - relying on stations over a 1,000 miles way to get it done first!
> 
> NorthEast Radio Watch 6/24/2019: Here Comes the Repack


What a Charlie Foxtrot.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

cypherx said:


> The more they pack em tight, how will they find room for ATSC 3.0 I wonder.


Compressing what we now see as 'full' HD. Recently the FCC said they will allow stations to broadcast 4K OTA using one of their sub channels. When you add the bandwidth they are using now to the full bandwidth for 'perfect' 4K it's greater than they allow for any one station. 

Their only choice will be to degrade one or both of those broadcasts. My guess is that very few stations will build a separate transmitter just for 4K.

This is what we will see in about 5 years in most places, and likely for at least another 5 years after that. Sometime around 2030 (guessing) something new will come along, or enough of us will have 4K equipment to make it worthwhile to shut off 1.0 (HD).

The only potential disrupter to this scenario is, of course, money. If the stations see an opportunity with the targeted ads 3.0 allows they may put up a separate tower. I just don't see that happening given the current state of content with OTA broadcasts and the declining viewership they are seeing now.


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## jamieh1 (May 1, 2003)

If you are rescanning the LCC sometimes it will show the directv generated listings and the Psip data from the local signal but with no guide listings. So when running scanner. Clear the ota set up and start new.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

slice1900 said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if in some cases you have a situation like a Sinclair owned station is going from UHF 22 to VHF 12, and another is going from UHF 41 to UHF 22, so they take that UHF 22 module down from the tower, load it on a truck, and drive it over to the other station.


It is possible. Over on RabbitEars you can look up each station and read their FCC filings stating what their plans are for the migration. The filings state whether they are purchasing a new antenna or are able to reuse an old antenna. There are also details as to whether or not the station will be buying a new transmitter or re-purposing an old or current one. Basically the same kind of work stations did for the digital transition, except there were more channels available "back in the day" and other than the delayed final cut, no precise schedule. (Stations moving their temporary digital feed to their historic analog channel had a "turn off old, turn on new" transition while others simply turned off the analog.)

One interesting (to me) part of the FCC filings is that the cost of the transition is spelled out - with the explaination of why the station needs to spend the money (and can't take a cheaper route). It is a good way to keep track of just how much the repack will cost stations.

My market will end up with full power stations on 27, 29, 30, 31 and 36 (RF) and lower power stations on 16, 25, 28 and 35. All of the full power stations and two of the lower power stations will be moving. I never expected to see five channels in a row on OTA broadcast, but apparently adjacent channels work when the transmission towers are close to each other. 35 will need to move to 31 before 34 moves to 35. 28 will need to move to 30 before 33 moves to 28. The other shifts are not as much of a conflict - but there are stations outside of the market that are part of the dance.


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## sanpablo (Sep 7, 2007)

techguy88 said:


> @poppo if @sanpablo location info is correct on their profile then they are in the New York DMA which is a disputed DMA (WCBS-CBS) which caused the CBS DNS feed to switched to the WUSA-CBS Washington, DC feed owned by Tenga, Inc. so @sanpablo is eligible to get a LCC as long as they have an HR44 or HR54 Genie. The only thing I can think of is if he has a HR34 or HS17 Genie or any other receiver then the ordering system won't let a CSR order a LCC. If you do have an HR44 or 54 I would call back and ask for customer loyalty and they will order it for you.


I have an HR54, CSR starts out saying I'm eligible for a LCC but when they go to set up order they can not complete it for some unknown reason.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

sanpablo said:


> I have an HR54, CSR starts out saying I'm eligible for a LCC but when they go to set up order they can not complete it for some unknown reason.


After reading your previous posts it's unclear to me where you live. Which station is in dispute where you live now?


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## poppo (Oct 10, 2006)

slice1900 said:


> I don't believe the channel map matters. If you do a setup / scan in the antenna menu it will find the new frequency for your local station without Directv needing to update anything on their end.


I don't think it is that simple. If the LCC finds a channel but there is no guide data provided by DirecTV, then what? As I noted earlier, my friend's LCC originally thought CBS was on ch2-1 and only displayed a DirecTV logo. The correct channel is actually 48-3 which the LCC would never "find" until apparently DirecTV updated their data and now it "finds" it. I can not say for sure how it works, but from my observation, after to put in the zip code, it looks up the database for the channels it has guide data for and then only scans for those specific channels. And as we have seen by some posts, it often has incorrect info for those channels. The bottom line is the guide data needs to properly mach the channels or things won't work. So yes, DirecTV needs to update things on their end.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

poppo said:


> I don't think it is that simple. If the LCC finds a channel but there is no guide data provided by DirecTV, then what? As I noted earlier, my friend's LCC originally thought CBS was on ch2-1 and only displayed a DirecTV logo. The correct channel is actually 48-3 which the LCC would never "find" until apparently DirecTV updated their data and now it "finds" it. I can not say for sure how it works, but from my observation, after to put in the zip code, it looks up the database for the channels it has guide data for and then only scans for those specific channels. And as we have seen by some posts, it often has incorrect info for those channels. The bottom line is the guide data needs to properly mach the channels or things won't work. So yes, DirecTV needs to update things on their end.


If there's no guide data it will still show the channel so you can watch it just fine, there's no Directv logo. It will show "regular schedule" for that channel in the guide and you can do manual recordings.


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## GlennDio (Jan 19, 2007)

Set up my free LCC today ... The included antenna is really very good in suburban Denver I literally have it thrown in a closed cabinet next to my Genie and I get every local channel.
BTW 2 minor glitches: 

I had to restart the receiver once after the initial set up and run set up again to get all the channels (I think I got only 2 or 3 the first time)
The guide picked up 2 of the channels twice 7-1 and 7-4 so I had to go in and uncheck those second ones since the guide just showed "regular programming" on the duplicate ones anyway.
Also of note the mini genies work great with the LCC set up on the main Genie! smooth as silk like the channels were coming from DirecTV as well.


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## 24Flames (Aug 24, 2007)

Also set up my free LCC today. It's definitely a finicky piece of equipment. OTA reception definitely not as good as running the antenna directly through my TV. Where as I can get solid green 80% plus reception when connected to the TV on the major networks, I can only get wildly fluctuating 45%-65% reception on some of the same channels (and that's on a clear, sunny day) when using the LCC. I live on a hill about 22 miles from the metro area, with no obstructions. The biggest irregularity so far is that when hooked up to my TV, my antenna can get great reception, 80%-90% on 4 stations that are literally transmitting within a few blocks in the downtown area, but when using the LCC, 2 of the 4 stations don't even show up when using the LCC (while the other two are yellow, or ranging from 45%-65%). I've re-run the OTA scan twice, maybe next I'll try a different antenna.


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## poppo (Oct 10, 2006)

slice1900 said:


> If there's no guide data it will still show the channel so you can watch it just fine, there's no Directv logo. It will show "regular schedule" for that channel in the guide and you can do manual recordings.


That has not been my experience with the LCC. I have many strong channels my TV will show, but the LCC will not display. And I there are channels the LCC "thought" should be there (including guide data), but only displays the Logo because the channel does not exist.


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

sanpablo said:


> I have an HR54, CSR starts out saying I'm eligible for a LCC but when they go to set up order they can not complete it for some unknown reason.





Athlon646464 said:


> After reading your previous posts it's unclear to me where you live. Which station is in dispute where you live now?


That's weird it should let the CSR order you one @sanpablo as long as your in a disputed market and have an active HR54 on the account. My friend said in both the AT&T system and the old DTV system they made it as easy as pie for the CSRs to order.

It is possible they may not want to send you the LCC because the signal strength website they use keeps coming back that the disputed station in question is marked as "yellow" or "red". They are actually instructed only to send LCCs out to customers that get a "green" signal to limit the amount of callbacks from angry customers upset that the included antenna couldn't pull their local channel.

If that website I linked to shows your green and they won't send you one try calling and speaking to customer loyalty and see what can be done is the only thing I can think of.



poppo said:


> I don't think it is that simple. If the LCC finds a channel but there is no guide data provided by DirecTV, then what? As I noted earlier, my friend's LCC originally thought CBS was on ch2-1 and only displayed a DirecTV logo. The correct channel is actually 48-3 which the LCC would never "find" until apparently DirecTV updated their data and now it "finds" it. I can not say for sure how it works, but from my observation, after to put in the zip code, it looks up the database for the channels it has guide data for and then only scans for those specific channels. And as we have seen by some posts, it often has incorrect info for those channels. The bottom line is the guide data needs to properly mach the channels or things won't work. So yes, DirecTV needs to update things on their end.





slice1900 said:


> If there's no guide data it will still show the channel so you can watch it just fine, there's no Directv logo. It will show "regular schedule" for that channel in the guide and you can do manual recordings.


The HR44 and HR54 no longer rely solely on DirecTV's OTA database they re-enabled the ability for both the AM21 and LCC to scan and pick up local channels not in the database and just like @slice1900 said it will just show "Regular Schedule" for that channel.

My CW affiliate for example just added Heroes & Icons and Start TV as their 2nd and 3rd sub-channels respectively and my HR44 will pull them in with a AM21 and a LCC but they say "Regular Schedule" and use the PSIP name because they are not in DirecTV's database. My HR24 connected to my AM21 will not detect them even though it will detect the main CW signal as it relies on the database.

Also DirecTV's OTA database doesn't even include a low powered O&O HSN station in my area and my LCC & HR44 receiver is able to pull in that unwanted station crystal clear in its full 1080i shopping glory.


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

poppo said:


> That has not been my experience with the LCC. I have many strong channels my TV will show, but the LCC will not display. And I there are channels the LCC "thought" should be there (including guide data), but only displays the Logo because the channel does not exist.


That's weird I've never heard of that happening before.


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## philherz (May 3, 2008)

Athlon646464 said:


> What channel is your disputed CBS station on if you were to hook your antenna to your TV?
> 
> 4.1 or 29.3?
> 
> ...


I'm in the Buffalo, NY market and I'd like to view CBS on 4.1 now that channel 4 is gone due to the Nexstar dispute.

Channel 4 is WIVB (CBS), the D* guide shows channel 4.1 as WNLODT3 (WNLO is the CW network and a sister channel of WIVB) for some reason, and when I tune to 4.1, I'm actually watching a program that's being shown on 29.3 which is the FOX affiliate!!!??? It's crazy!!!!

I'll clear the OTA settings before my next rescan to see if that helps.


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## philherz (May 3, 2008)

RE: WIVB in Buffalo, NY. I just read this. Sounds like I might not be watching CBS for quite a while!!! ;<(_*

"Before people make changes, or re-aim their antenna systems, wait a few weeks for WNLO/WIVB to complete their tower work. Nothing you do now is likely to improve or stabilize reception. The stations are operating under what is known as an FCC "temporary authority" (STA) and are transmitting at much less than authorized power. The antenna is not their "final" transmitting antenna. It is side-mounted on the tower and much lower (more than 100 Metres lower) than the final installation."*_


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

philherz said:


> RE: WIVB in Buffalo, NY. I just read this. Sounds like I might not be watching CBS for quite a while!!! ;<(
> _*
> "Before people make changes, or re-aim their antenna systems, wait a few weeks for WNLO/WIVB to complete their tower work. Nothing you do now is likely to improve or stabilize reception. The stations are operating under what is known as an FCC "temporary authority" (STA) and are transmitting at much less than authorized power. The antenna is not their "final" transmitting antenna. It is side-mounted on the tower and much lower (more than 100 Metres lower) than the final installation."*_


Well that might not be a bad thing so to speak after looking at D* OTA database and the updates they did on 7/31/19 to prepare for the repack I found out why you might be getting a duplicate of 29.3 on 4.1. According to Edge Cutter's OTA database table they have your 4.1 and 4.2 mapped to physical channel 36 which happens to be the physical channel of your WUTV-Fox station (virtual channel 29). This may give D* time to get this sorted out on their end. In the meantime you might be able to get a 1 week free trial of CBS All Access if you haven't tried out that service yet. They usually have a live stream of the local CBS affiliate.

Also a side note to the naming DTV is using. Nexstar sold WIVB's spectrum and it now shares spectrum with WNLO. Physically WIVB-CBS and WIVB-CourTV are located on WNLO's third and fourth sub-channels but with PSIP viewers will not see this. This is why on the guide the name was changed to "WNLODT3" for "WIVBDT1" (although if D* was smart they wouldn't have changed the name).


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

poppo said:


> That has not been my experience with the LCC. I have many strong channels my TV will show, but the LCC will not display. And I there are channels the LCC "thought" should be there (including guide data), but only displays the Logo because the channel does not exist.


That's a problem with the LCC or its software, I was just talking about what happens when the 'scan' finds a channel that doesn't have guide data either because Directv hasn't added it yet or will never add it (low power channels will not get added to their database)


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

techguy88 said:


> after looking at D* OTA database


for your better understanding DTV guts: they are using many databases (inside of STB), one of them is channel's DB (see it at IamAnEdgeCutter site), other one - for EPG DB (actually it's multi DB sub-system) - that's where you see most of info in your guide;
OTA addons (AM21, LCC) using only first one DB.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

techguy88 said:


> Well that might not be a bad thing so to speak after looking at D* OTA database and the updates they did on 7/31/19 to prepare for the repack I found out why you might be getting a duplicate of 29.3 on 4.1. According to Edge Cutter's OTA database table they have your 4.1 and 4.2 mapped to physical channel 36 which happens to be the physical channel of your WUTV-Fox station (virtual channel 29). This may give D* time to get this sorted out on their end. In the meantime you might be able to get a 1 week free trial of CBS All Access if you haven't tried out that service yet. They usually have a live stream of the local CBS affiliate.


RabbitEars is showing WNLO and WIVB-TV sharing channel 36 (physical) and WUTV on channel 32 (physical).








edgecutters has this








The RF 39 is an error.


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

James Long said:


> RabbitEars is showing WNLO and WIVB-TV sharing channel 36 (physical) and WUTV on channel 32 (physical).
> View attachment 30023
> 
> edgecutters has this
> ...


Ah.... I knew something was array with that. WUTV's website is already telling viewers to rescan which aligns with RabbitEar's info that it's RF channel has changed. That lone RF 39 must be a typo. I wonder if @philherz's 29.1, 29.2 and 29.3 shows the correct channels now . That also means they need to update WNLO proper to be RF 36 as well or that maybe a typo as well.

I did notice this typo as well for my market. WCHS's was previously on RF 41 but its repack date was on 9/1/18 and it changed to RF 29. They forgot to change the RF# on the spreedsheet but when they added subchannels 8.3 and 8.4 to the database they put the correct RF#. So I'm thinking its possible the spreedsheet may have more typos for the RF# in other markets. My LCC (and my AM21 before it) are pulling in all 4 subchannels correctly so it must be correct on the technical side.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

:handok: I like the method of investigating all sides of technical info... :thumbsup:


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

P Smith said:


> :handok: I like the method of investigating all sides of technical info... :thumbsup:


LOL when something doesn't work I like trying to figure out why I've taken apart electronics to fix them before.

I still think its possible that something is temporary wrong on D*'s end with the database if philherz is receiving WUTV's channels via the LCC correctly on 29.1, 29.2 & 29.3 since WUTV is now on RF 32 which used to be WIVB/WNLO's old RF # before the repack. This would explain why he's now seeing a duplicate of 29.3 when he tunes to 4.1 when he should actually should either see WIVB or should see nothing at all (depending on his location) where it is operating at a temporary authority at the moment.

I wonder if he tunes to 23.1 and 23.2 if he will get a duplicate of 29.1 and 29.2 as well lol (just a guess).


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## GlennDio (Jan 19, 2007)

24Flames said:


> Also set up my free LCC today. It's definitely a finicky piece of equipment. OTA reception definitely not as good as running the antenna directly through my TV. Where as I can get solid green 80% plus reception when connected to the TV on the major networks, I can only get wildly fluctuating 45%-65% reception on some of the same channels (and that's on a clear, sunny day) when using the LCC. I live on a hill about 22 miles from the metro area, with no obstructions. The biggest irregularity so far is that when hooked up to my TV, my antenna can get great reception, 80%-90% on 4 stations that are literally transmitting within a few blocks in the downtown area, but when using the LCC, 2 of the 4 stations don't even show up when using the LCC (while the other two are yellow, or ranging from 45%-65%). I've re-run the OTA scan twice, maybe next I'll try a different antenna.


don't forget to restart your receiver once that makes a big difference as well


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## philherz (May 3, 2008)

techguy88 said:


> LOL when something doesn't work I like trying to figure out why I've taken apart electronics to fix them before.
> 
> I still think its possible that something is temporary wrong on D*'s end with the database if philherz is receiving WUTV's channels via the LCC correctly on 29.1, 29.2 & 29.3 since WUTV is now on RF 32 which used to be WIVB/WNLO's old RF # before the repack. This would explain why he's now seeing a duplicate of 29.3 when he tunes to 4.1 when he should actually should either see WIVB or should see nothing at all (depending on his location) where it is operating at a temporary authority at the moment.
> 
> I wonder if he tunes to 23.1 and 23.2 if he will get a duplicate of 29.1 and 29.2 as well lol (just a guess).


Boy, you guys are good!

I think my head is going to explode!!!!

I have no idea what all this means! Do I just wait for D* to fix the mapping? Does it do any good if I call them to ask them to get this fixed? (Ha ha ha)

I'm guessing that I just have to be patient, right????????

thnx


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

philherz said:


> Boy, you guys are good!
> 
> I think my head is going to explode!!!!
> 
> ...


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## philherz (May 3, 2008)

Athlon646464 said:


>


Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha..................

Unless one of smart guys has an actual technical fix for me, I figure my next move is to call D* customer retention, explain that the LCC only worked for 2 weeks and now, due to mapping problems on their end, I'd like a monthly credit so that I can subscribe to CBS All Access OR a discount on my HBO so that I stay happy.


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## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

I did the reset and started over to clean up the guide and get rid of the duplicates and get guide data on the proper working OTA channel. The problem now is 3-1,3-2 KYW CBS Philadelphia no longer appears in the guide. I get all of the other channels though. I scanned Friday night and Saturday night and I just can’t get 3-1 to show up. What this UI needs is an advanced setup menu where I could type in the virtual channel, RF channel and PID myself, that way I could sit on that channel and wait for the perfect atmospheric conditions or ducting in the air and still have at least somewhat of a chance for recordings to get something.

I was so close to ordering an antenna and LNA on Friday night but my Amazon cart was almost $160... a lot for just CBS (or any future disputes).

I complained to DirecTV loyalty and they gave me $30 off a month for the next 12 months. That at least keeps me from switching to our cable operators TiVo system.


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## NR4P (Jan 16, 2007)

philherz said:


> I'm in the Buffalo, NY market and I'd like to view CBS on 4.1 now that channel 4 is gone due to the Nexstar dispute.
> 
> Channel 4 is WIVB (CBS), the D* guide shows channel 4.1 as WNLODT3 (WNLO is the CW network and a sister channel of WIVB) for some reason, and when I tune to 4.1, I'm actually watching a program that's being shown on 29.3 which is the FOX affiliate!!!??? It's crazy!!!!
> 
> I'll clear the OTA settings before my next rescan to see if that helps.


I had the same issue in June when there were 3 stations moving within 2 weeks of each other and 2 of the stations took the former stations RF freq.

If I didn't reset all OTA, I received the wrong channel programming.

So 3 times in 3 weeks I had to Reset All OTA and go back and do the add/delete checkmarks for the ones I didn't want such as religious etc. But all is good and the guide was right each time after Reset.


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## DirectMan (Jul 15, 2007)

I received an LCC today. Others have posted that the LCC dongle runs hot. It was warm not hot in my case but I am concerned that the heat will reduce its lifespan. I better request another LCC and keep that as backup. My old AM-21's lasted about 5 and 10 years respectively but I have my doubts that I will get 5 years out of this LCC.


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## DirectMan (Jul 15, 2007)

I found this on the ATT site which estimates the signal strength of OTA stations for your LCC. Just input your address. Pretty good.

https://signalstrength.directv.com/


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## dod1450 (Dec 16, 2009)

DirectMan said:


> I found this on the ATT site which estimates the signal strength of OTA stations for your LCC. Just input your address. Pretty good.
> 
> https://signalstrength.directv.com/


 The problem with the web information may not be correct on network information. It shows one of my OTA has H and I, the station is now broadcasting Decade TV.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

Much better resource, and nearly always up to date:

RabbitEars.Info


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

The repack is affecting a lot of OTA capability, especially with stations being forced to operate on low power for days, weeks or even months. There's a tower in Needham, MA for example where one station with it's transmitter on top of the tower had to lower it's power so workers could safely climb up to a lower position on the tower to complete a transition that did not go smoothly for another station.

There are stories of equipment not getting delivered on time.

If you want a taste of what is happening with the repack, take a look at this thread, especially posts #12035, #12064 & #12065.

Although the thread talks about Boston - it's the same in many markets.

"While WSBK is broadcasting at a reduced power on RF 39 until they move to RF 21 when Phase 7 ends in January and WSBE in Providence vacates RF 21".

If WSBE has a delay, so will WSBK.

This has already happened around the country - it's a domino effect.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/45-l...ion/28454-boston-ma-ota-402.html#post58376172


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## Steveknj (Nov 14, 2006)

I got my LCC a days after CBS dispute (I'm in the NY Metro) and it works mostly great for a couple of weeks. But after the channel reposition (Or whatever it is) CBS is hosed. I've done 3 separate rescans, doesn't help. So I'm back to square one. I see that I'm not the only one with the issue. *What is the number for customer retention these days? * I'm not happy. First there this fight between CBS and DirecTV (and I get that this is probably CBS' fault, but as a consumer, I don't really care at this point). I see no movement on either. So I got the LCC, which worked pretty good, until, DirecTV didn't do their diligence and update whatever it needs to update in order to get this to work (I have basic cable and CBS works perfectly fine on 2-1, so I know this is a DirecTV issue. This type of thing is typical of what has happened since AT&T took over. I'm really getting close to cancelling. I'll give them a week and if this isn't resolved, I am going to consider doing just that.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

Steveknj said:


> I got my LCC a days after CBS dispute (I'm in the NY Metro) and it works mostly great for a couple of weeks. But after the channel reposition (Or whatever it is) CBS is hosed. I've done 3 separate rescans, doesn't help. So I'm back to square one. I see that I'm not the only one with the issue. *What is the number for customer retention these days? * I'm not happy. First there this fight between CBS and DirecTV (and I get that this is probably CBS' fault, but as a consumer, I don't really care at this point). I see no movement on either. So I got the LCC, which worked pretty good, until, DirecTV didn't do their diligence and update whatever it needs to update in order to get this to work (I have basic cable and CBS works perfectly fine on 2-1, so I know this is a DirecTV issue. This type of thing is typical of what has happened since AT&T took over. I'm really getting close to cancelling. I'll give them a week and if this isn't resolved, I am going to consider doing just that.


You are seeing a perfect storm with CBS & DirecTV.

CBS wants too much $$$ even though ratings are down, AT&T is trying to hold the line on that.

The LCC is not ready for prime time (sorry for the pun).

The repack - many stations are operating on low power making it more difficult to receive them OTA. Forget about them moving, confusing many folks who don't know about that and don't re-scan.

I'm afraid you'll see your cable company having disputes (if they haven't already) with the same frequency as AT&T. No one is immune in this TV content upheaval we are witnessing. Someday we'll look back at this period and remember the time when content delivery went through a big change and finally 'got sorted out'. It may take a few years for all of this to calm down, IMHO.


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## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

Athlon646464 is dead on. This is the perfect storm. I hate to cave into CBS, but I think we will be drawn into subscribing to CBS all access. Problems we have:

Philadelphia CBS (KYW-3) is operating at reduced power on a temporary transmitter for an unknown amount of time. The FCC filing gives them until November, but I’m sure if it hits the fan they can file an extension.

Locast only works on live tv. Live tv is usually not on our schedule. We can make an exception for a few things, but Locast does not load on our HR44-700. It says loading and the apps bar goes away, but the app never appears. It only loads on the c61 in our bedroom.

If I subscribe to CBS all access through amazon prime video, I can watch episodes the day after they air on the Amazon prime app. This app is on my living room blue ray player. I have a Roku in the bedroom (which has a dedicated CBS app), but I don’t want to keep moving that between tv’s. The double sided sticky tape on the top of the TV where the Roku is attached would eventually wear out.

CBS got us exactly where they want. Now they will earn revenue from me, and from a few other people in our neighborhood who can also no longer get CBS due to the low power. It’s the only big network station in our market that had issues with the repack (go figure). Either that or Service Electric Cablevision is going to see a boost in basic tv subscribers.

CBS all access through Amazon Prime: $5.99 a month.

Big antenna and preamp that may or may not work in my attic: Over $160+

CBS all access is more economical. I have to pay a lot more for an antenna investment and still not be guaranteed it would work.


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## Steveknj (Nov 14, 2006)

Athlon646464 said:


> You are seeing a perfect storm with CBS & DirecTV.
> 
> CBS wants too much $$$ even though ratings are down, AT&T is trying to hold the line on that.
> 
> ...


You are right of course, these battles will continue as viewership goes down and production costs skyrocket. I get that. But it's not just this with AT&T / DirecTV. It's any number of things. From cutting their US based help desk where their outsourced folks now act as sales people for their mobile service. To rolling out the new GUI that was totally screwed up for about a year and still has issues, and now this. There's some little things too. Not having the ability to do PIP on the Genie minis and so forth is one of those little things that annoy me.

I've been with DirecTV for at least 15 years, maybe longer. And I always felt their service was worth even extra money, but lately I'm not feeling it. I'm in the process of pricing out Optimum. They are now offering a price for life deal. Initially it will save me about $50 because it will bundle in Internet which I already get from them, plus include all premiums which I don't have now. But I need to know more before I jump at the deal.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

cypherx said:


> Now they will earn revenue from me, and from a few other people in our neighborhood who can also no longer get CBS due to the low power. It's the only big network station in our market that had issues with the repack (go figure). Either that or Service Electric Cablevision is going to see a boost in basic tv subscribers.


Every year my wife and I give each other money on our birthdays. Being a 'gadget guy' I'll usually spring for a gadget for me each year. This year I bought an antenna for the attic, pre-amp for it, a Tablo and HDD for it. I figure I'm 'future proofed' for a while anyway.

I know one thing is for sure, if this CBS thing continues into the NFL season, I won't have to listen to my wife screaming about missing our Patriots on our local CBS station. As a matter of fact, on Thursday night this week we'll be watching their pre-season game live on our CBS station (WBZ-TV) using the Tablo app on our family room TV. We wouldn't be able to view it there otherwise.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

Steveknj said:


> I've been with DirecTV for at least 15 years, maybe longer. And I always felt their service was worth even extra money, but lately I'm not feeling it. I'm in the process of pricing out Optimum. They are now offering a price for life deal. Initially it will save me about $50 because it will bundle in Internet which I already get from them, plus include all premiums which I don't have now. But I need to know more before I jump at the deal.


I can't disagree with you either. AT&T is going to have to fix that if DirecTV is going to be their 'elite' service going forward.

As for Optimum - my mother-in-law has that (an Altice box). She lives in southern Connecticut. I was stunned a few weeks ago when we were visiting. I don't know what she's paying, but she has phone, internet and cable TV with them.

She has a package with most all of the premiums - HBO, Starz etc. While watching something I tried to rewind live TV with the Altice remote because I missed some dialog in a show I was trying to watch. (My wife being Italian and talking to her Italian mom creates a VERY loud listening environment lol)

I could not rewind, pause or otherwise use trick play. Thinking there was something wrong with her remote or DVR, I went to her Optimum account web site only to find out she's not paying for that! They want another $16.95 plus taxes and fees for that service!! Now, I don't know what her new total would be, so I don't know if it even makes sense, but it sure looked damn funny to me. Watch out they don't nickle and dime you.


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## Steveknj (Nov 14, 2006)

Athlon646464 said:


> I can't disagree with you either. AT&T is going to have to fix that if DirecTV is going to be their 'elite' service going forward.
> 
> As for Optimum - my mother-in-law has that (an Altice box). She lives in southern Connecticut. I was stunned a few weeks ago when we were visiting. I don't know what she's paying, but she has phone, internet and cable TV with them.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I read that. The deal they are offering includes that on ONE TV. Since we have 6, I need to find out if that price is per TV or account. If it's $17 per TV, then that jacks the price up significantly, and then the deal is not worth it. Right now, before tax, it's $30 cheaper than DirecTV (pre tax) for equivalent equipment and it INCLUDES my internet which I'm already paying $100 for that plus basic local TV package. Plus the package I was looking at includes HBO, SHO and STRZ. Right now, I have just HBO (oh, and also an Amazon $100 gift card) So the deal seems good. I'm sure there's plenty of gotchas, so I'll weigh the pros and cons before I decide to switch or not.


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## machavez00 (Nov 2, 2006)

Called and spoke to “Bernard” and an LLC is on the way.


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## kruegs (Feb 19, 2007)

I did an online chat last night and requested the LCC. Order was placed (I am in a market with CBS dispute). I got an email that shows "LCC + Indoor Antenna for Dispute $0.00". Today when I got into my AT&T account it shows "1" Order, but when I click on the details it cannot find the order. Guess it'll be a guessing game if something shows up this week or not. LOL


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## GekkoDBS (Dec 5, 2015)

Athlon646464 said:


> You are seeing a perfect storm with CBS & DirecTV.
> 
> CBS wants too much $$$ even though ratings are down, AT&T is trying to hold the line on that.
> 
> ...


Do you think this dispute will magically end right before week 1 of the NFL?


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

GordonGekko said:


> Do you think this dispute will magically end right before week 1 of the NFL?


If you forced me to make a prediction, I'd say between weeks one and two. The heat would be greatest then.

BTW, I have no idea, just a gut feeling.


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## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

I moved my Roku from bedroom to living room. CBS all access was slow and buggy on my living room blue ray player. What else is even on Roku though I purchased via Amazon prime, I linked the CBS all access channel. Live TV works but Big Brother S21 E18 errors out. I can only play it via Amazon Prime Video. CBS sure is making this hard.


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## NR4P (Jan 16, 2007)

Sorry to see so many of you got the perfect storm. Repacking in the middle of all this sure makes it difficult.

My POV, it's CBS 100% the bad guy. The local TV stations get a FREE license to broadcast. Their business model is to make money on advertising. The more eye balls, the more they can charge due to higher ratings. The whole business model was not for them to get a free license and charge viewers. Directv adds eyeballs. 

I applaud Directv for investing millions of $ to get the LCC out there. For free. They aren't charging a penny. Shipping alone is costing some big bucks. Now they could fix the audio stutters, shame on them for not doing that first. After all its a known AM21 bug. 

Oh, and not supporting it on the HS17, shame on Directv.

If you wish to cave and pay CBS all access, its going to keep rolling to the next dispute. Whether it be Hearst, or ABC owned stations. 

The real solution if you have a HR44/54, either put an antenna outdoors (OTARD will protect most folks) or maybe an attic antenna will work for you. But even the low power STA's will come in for almost all with outdoor antennas. I know not for 100% but I believe a majority will be pleased. 
I hope you can manage through this. Good luck.


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

It is simple. We need to go back to the 1950s or when the FCC gave them the TV channel
Back then there was no DVR or VHS tape so one could skip commercials. You had to watch commercials and the station made money.

Thus the locals should not be able to charge cable or sat a fee to watch the same over the air channel if you are forced to watch commercials. It must be free to all. Think 1950s

Now if someone wanted to record something then 
Yes
they can charge a fee as one can skip commercials and thus stations cant make money. Hence they loose money

So go back to the 1950 rule. Free for everyone to re broadcast any local channel but they are allows to charge re broadcast fees if the DVR is enabled

Congress needs to update the laws to support this. Else i fear all locals will go to the pay wall model like CBS all access and charge eveyone more


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

NR4P said:


> My POV, it's CBS 100% the bad guy. The local TV stations get a FREE license to broadcast. Their business model is to make money on advertising. The more eye balls, the more they can charge due to higher ratings. The whole business model was not for them to get a free license and charge viewers. Directv adds eyeballs.


No, the local station do NOT get a "free" license to broadcast. They have to pay CBS for the privilege of carrying their content, but they do keep part of the fee that MVPDs like Directv and Comcast pay them for carrying their channels. The only advertising revenue local stations make is on the LOCAL ads they sell, which other than a handful of big events like football games, Oscars and so forth is not a lot outside of huge markets like NYC and LA. Guarantee that the CBS affiliate in Cedar Rapids Iowa is not raking it in selling local ad time on the local news or Big Brother.

In fact CBS was just in the news today for signing a new contract with Nexstar to allow Nexstar owned CBS affiliates to keep carrying CBS programming. No doubt CBS is making Nexstar pay more, no doubt Nexstar wants to pass along that increase to Directv who they're still in a dispute with, and other MVPDs when it comes time to renew their contracts.

Why is CBS so greedy? The argument used to be because they have to develop all those shows, but nowadays networks are mostly reality shows or rehashing the same formula with yet another CSI variation without the now-expensive stars in the older ones. Most of the increase in rights fees they charge local stations is down to sports rights. And that looks to keep getting higher. Currently CBS pays $55 million for the rights to broadcast the SEC "game of the week" in a contract that's about 10 years old and due to expire in a few years. Supposedly CBS is looking to renew it early to lock it in, and rumors are it will be for around $250 million a year, allowing the SEC to catch up to the Big Ten in conference earnings. One guess out of whose pocket that extra $200 million a year ultimately comes from...


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

slice1900 said:


> No, the local station do NOT get a "free" license to broadcast. They have to pay CBS for the privilege of carrying their content, but they do keep part of the fee that MVPDs like Directv and Comcast pay them for carrying their channels. The only advertising revenue local stations make is on the LOCAL ads they sell, which other than a handful of big events like football games, Oscars and so forth is not a lot outside of huge markets like NYC and LA. Guarantee that the CBS affiliate in Cedar Rapids Iowa is not raking it in selling local ad time on the local news or Big Brother.
> 
> In fact CBS was just in the news today for signing a new contract with Nexstar to allow Nexstar owned CBS affiliates to keep carrying CBS programming. No doubt CBS is making Nexstar pay more, no doubt Nexstar wants to pass along that increase to Directv who they're still in a dispute with, and other MVPDs when it comes time to renew their contracts.
> 
> Why is CBS so greedy? The argument used to be because they have to develop all those shows, but nowadays networks are mostly reality shows or rehashing the same formula with yet another CSI variation without the now-expensive stars in the older ones. Most of the increase in rights fees they charge local stations is down to sports rights. And that looks to keep getting higher. Currently CBS pays $55 million for the rights to broadcast the SEC "game of the week" in a contract that's about 10 years old and due to expire in a few years. Supposedly CBS is looking to renew it early to lock it in, and rumors are it will be for around $250 million a year, allowing the SEC to catch up to the Big Ten in conference earnings. One guess out of whose pocket that extra $200 million a year ultimately comes from...


I think he means in general the local station gets a free license from the FCC to broadcast on the public spectrum. I don't think he is referring to the reverse compensation a local station pays to be an affiliate of the CBS network which is technically rendered moot for CBS and CW O&O stations.



scottchez said:


> It is simple. We need to go back to the 1950s or when the FCC gave them the TV channel
> Back then there was no DVR or VHS tape so one could skip commercials. You had to watch commercials and the station made money.
> 
> Thus the locals should not be able to charge cable or sat a fee to watch the same over the air channel if you are forced to watch commercials. It must be free to all. Think 1950s
> ...


Retransmission consent became possible thanks to the 1992 Cable Television Consumer Protection and Competition Act. This gave the commercial full-power stations the option of electing retransmission consent _or _electing "must-carry" status (forcing cable and satellite providers to carry the station). They must chose one or the other but can't chose both.

Low power stations are not eligible for either provision (thereby de facto having to negotiate with MVPD on carriage which _can _involve payment). This is typically why a low powered station is usually not carried unless it has managed to secure an affiliation from one of the Big 4. (This usually doesn't happen unless a bigger company like Sinclair or Nexstar are wanting to use them to evade the FCC's duopoly ownership limits). This is why for a LP station they often struggle, turn to being reliant on shopping/infomercials, etc.

Non-commercial stations (like your local PBS) are forbidden by law from seeking retransmission consent and must elect "must-carry" status. (When you think about it they are the ones that actually need the boost in revenue.)

This was the cornerstone of when things changed. Retransmission consent is not limited to $$$. In addition (or in absence of) $$$ a MVPD can be required to carry (aka bundle) additional channels to carry a local station. (Like in the current DirecTV/CBS dispute this also involves Smithsonian and CBS Sports Network). Because the way the law has evolved it heavily favors the broadcasters and leaves all the MVPDs (event the vMVPDs) with very little recourse.


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## JerryMeeker (Sep 20, 2007)

I have discussed my experiences with the LCC in a different thread, and I see several of you here that provided feedback in the other thread. I apologize for duplicating in this thread my efforts to get the LCC working properly.

Quick background: I am using an AM21 on my bedroom HR24, connected to an outside antenna. I am located approximately 5 miles from the hill here in Austin that has all of the broadcast towers for local digital OTA signals. My AM21 receives all local stations, with signal strengths close to, or at, 100%.

I received the LCC from DTV so that I can add OTA channels to my downstairs HR54 (I am affected by the Nexstar dispute which has removed NBC from the satellite). I hooked everything up properly, using the small flat indoor antenna, and ran a local channel scan for my Zip code. When the scan finished, the local ABC and NBC channels were not listed. So, I ran the "Reset Settings" and ran the scan again. Still no ABC or NBC channels. Next, I tried connecting my outside antenna rather than the small flat indoor antenna, reset everything, and scanned once again. Still no ABC or NBC channels!

I am at a loss. If the AM21 finds the ABC and NBC channels, why doesn't the LCC find them? If anyone has a creative idea WRT what I should try next, that would be appreciated.

Edit: I checked on https://signalstrength.directv.com/, and all of my locals show Yellow as the signal strength. Strange, because I have a direct line of sight to the transmission towers less than 5 miles away.


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

% . THE TRICK TO GETTING YOUR OVER THE AIR CHANNELS

I connected a signal meter to see what is going on with Over the Air TV and my Hr54
There are Two levels on the meter.

*1. Signal Level- *a HIGH number is required but ONLY during the setup and scan. If it is too lower it will not show up on the list. I also found to prove this I can have past OTA channels stored in FAVs, they wont show up on a scan if the level is too low but they still work fine if the quality level is good (see #2)

*2. Quality *level is what is needed to actually watch the channel, once you have it setup and scanned in. To tune this VERY OFTEN your signal level is too strong, I found that for that adding a Three way splitter does the trick for my channels at 50 miles a way. Every one will be different so try different ones, then tune to your channel in quest and see which is better. The Signal meter on the HR-54 can also help some for tuning. It seems to measure the Quality livel not the Signal Level.

*WHAT DOES THIS ALL MEAN?*
1. High Signal Level is just needed to get the channel registered. So maybe Scan late at night when signals are known to be stronger, do this to get it on your list.
Also very early like before 7am is also a good time to scan.

2. Once you have the channel on your list, tune it even more, maybe the sginal is too strong using an AMP or too weak.

THE KEY- Amplifying a signal with interference just makes it worse, so that is often why adding a Spliter or Attenuator does the trick.

*WARNING ABOUT RESCANS (also called running setup again).*
You risk loosing a channel on your list if you rescan say in the middle of the day when signals are weaker. This goes back to #1, if it not strong enough it will NOT make it on the list even if the QUALITY LEVEL #2 is good.
Also if you rescan there is a good chance you might end up with Duplicates of the same channel (one with Guide Data) and one with out. This is why you should reset before scanning.

*Best Days to Scans FORECAST*
Late at night or early A.M. in the summer time there is something known as ISO Trophic skip or something like that. It means some times you can pull channels in from the next couple of states.
Here is a chart for the best days to scans. You may not be trying to get the channels in the near by states, but it sure will help for getting those hard to get LOCALs.
My best is pulling in a channel 300 miles away (it lasted about 3 hours).
URL is below
Tropospheric Ducting Forecast for VHF & UHF Radio & TV

*MULTI PATH ISSUES*
If on the meter it seems to bounce up an down, it could be a multipath issues.
Try moving the Antenna 3 feet to see if it helps. Did wonders for me.

*BAD LED BULBS- WHY DOES IT GET BAD WITH THE KIDS COME HOME?*
This took me about a year to figure out.
Turns out those LED Light Builds or Fluorescent ones used to save money, if you buy the cheap ones, they CAUSE INTERFERENCE ON SOME TV CHANNELS.
So kinds would come home, leave the lights on, a some channels would go away.

Hang in there, keep trying and you to can get your channels.
I now pull channels from TWO TWO Markets.
The AM-21 is by far the best tuner , but the LCC also gets most channels also tests have show.

Hope this helps someone . .


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## DirectMan (Jul 15, 2007)

I was examining my new LCC and I am disappointed at how fragile and thin is the plastic housing. D* previous dongles like the DECA Ethernet to Coax Adapter were much sturdier. I don't think the LCC will survive very long either having the housing crack or the heat destroy the chips on the board. I think I need to have a backup LCC for when this one fails. I dont know if I should blame ATT or the remnants of D* but I tend to think ATT is the responsible party. Lets see how long it is before an improved and sturdier model appears.


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## JerryMeeker (Sep 20, 2007)

scottchez said:


> The AM-21 is by far the best tuner , but the LCC also gets most channels also tests have show.
> 
> Hope this helps someone . .


Thanks for the feedback. I'll try following your tip to scan late in the evening. As for the AM21 being the better device, the signals on my AM21 have frequent picture and audio break-ups. I think it is because the signals are actually too strong, but using an attenuator did not improve the signal quality. I had hoped the LCC would provide a better quality signal.


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

I just added some more TIPS in my post above.
- Bad LED builds
- Multipath
- Night time Signal Skip



JerryMeeker said:


> Thanks for the feedback. I'll try following your tip to scan late in the evening. As for the AM21 being the better device, the signals on my AM21 have frequent picture and audio break-ups. I think it is because the signals are actually too strong, but using an attenuator did not improve the signal quality. I had hoped the LCC would provide a better quality signal.


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## NR4P (Jan 16, 2007)

slice1900 said:


> *No, the local station do NOT get a "free" license to broadcast. They have to pay CBS for the privilege of carrying their content, but they do keep part of the fee that MVPDs like Directv and Comcast pay them for carrying their channels. *.


The license is effectively free, content is something else.
Since you like to be technical, a FCC TV license renewal is $200 (FCC DOC-353919A1). CP's can be nearly $5K but all in all, compared to what cellular pays for UHF spectrum, its effectively free.

Content and talent and buildings are all cost of doing business.

The commercial TV broadcast model has been based on serving the "public interest, convenience and necessity". If they pay too much for SEC Sports, then raise ad revenue, lower salaries, but the public can get OTA TV for free, as designed. The public is not supposed to be paying to watch local OTA TV, as opposed to the UK where people pay for a TV license.

I stand by my original comment that Directv and CATV add eyeballs that the station may not be able to get otherwise. Taking this to the extreme, what if Directv gave every household in the market a free LCC and antenna. Removing 100% of the Directv shakedown money, what would the local TV station do?

I hope ORBY TV is successful. That will put an end to the shakedown.


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## NR4P (Jan 16, 2007)

JerryMeeker said:


> I have discussed my experiences with the LCC in a different thread, and I see several of you here that provided feedback in the other thread. I apologize for duplicating in this thread my efforts to get the LCC working properly.
> 
> Quick background: *I am using an AM21 on my bedroom HR24, connected to an outside antenna*. I am located approximately 5 miles from the hill here in Austin that has all of the broadcast towers for local digital OTA signals. My AM21 receives all local stations, with signal strengths close to, or at, 100%.
> 
> ...


Your AM21 is connected to the outside antenna.
Your LCC is connected to a small flat indoor antenna.

Can you connect the LCC to the outside antenna? Reset and rescan.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

NR4P said:


> Your AM21 is connected to the outside antenna.
> Your LCC is connected to a small flat indoor antenna.
> 
> Can you connect the LCC to the outside antenna? Reset and rescan.


I think he already tried that. See his paragraph #3.


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## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

I think he is saying he gets breakup on the AM21and the LCC. If he is only 8 miles from the station, he needs to eliminate any preamp, and then adjust the antenna away from the station to try to eliminate signal overload and multipath. At eight miles you probably only need a paperclip as an antenna.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

We m


texasbrit said:


> I think he is saying he gets breakup on the AM21and the LCC. If he is only 8 miles from the station, he needs to eliminate any preamp, and then adjust the antenna away from the station to try to eliminate signal overload and multipath. At eight miles you probably only need a paperclip as an antenna.


We must be reading different posts. Nothing said about breakups. His LCC isn't receiving two local channels that his AM21 is receiving. Even after using his outside antenna on the LCC.

Edit. Sorry. I see now that after his first post of missing 2 channels and levels at nearly 100%, there was a second post addressing breakups.


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## JerryMeeker (Sep 20, 2007)

In post 829, I said “As for the AM21 being the better device, the signals on my AM21 have frequent picture and audio break-ups. I think it is because the signals are actually too strong, but using an attenuator did not improve the signal quality. I had hoped the LCC would provide a better quality signal.”

I appreciate the suggestions to clean up the signal on the AM21, which could well be multi-path distortion, but the purpose of my original post was to determine why the LCC is not picking up the ABC and NBC signals.

When I enter my zip code prior to the channel scan, is this causing an access to a database of Austin local channels? Perhaps there is something wrong with the database, maybe missing those two channels?


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## 24Flames (Aug 24, 2007)

JerryMeeker said:


> I have discussed my experiences with the LCC in a different thread, and I see several of you here that provided feedback in the other thread. I apologize for duplicating in this thread my efforts to get the LCC working properly.
> 
> Quick background: I am using an AM21 on my bedroom HR24, connected to an outside antenna. I am located approximately 5 miles from the hill here in Austin that has all of the broadcast towers for local digital OTA signals. My AM21 receives all local stations, with signal strengths close to, or at, 100%.
> 
> ...


I had the exact same problem. Two of my major network channels wouldn't show up after I ran multiple scans. And I knew both these channels were close to or at 100% reception when I used other devices. I didn't want to take the time to reset my HR-54, but finally I did, then I re-scanned again. Viola!! Suddenly the two stations that didn't appear previously not only appeared at in my guide, but the reception meter showed 94%-100% for each channel. Thanks to the person who previously suggested this to me! Give it a shot, see if it works.


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## JerryMeeker (Sep 20, 2007)

24Flames said:


> I had the exact same problem. Two of my major network channels wouldn't show up after I ran multiple scans. And I knew both these channels were close to or at 100% reception when I used other devices. I didn't want to take the time to reset my HR-54, but finally I did, then I re-scanned again. Viola!! Suddenly the two stations that didn't appear previously not only appeared at in my guide, but the reception meter showed 94%-100% for each channel. Thanks to the person who previously suggested this to me! Give it a shot, see if it works.


When you say reset the HR54, do you mean "Reset Everything", i.e. back to factory defaults?


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

scottchez said:


> My best is pulling in a channel 300 miles away (it lasted about 3 hours).


When I was a kid I used to check the "unused" VHF channels to see if we could pick up any far away stations. We picked up channel 10 from Quincy Illinois pretty often - that was about 150 miles. The record was picking up a channel from New Orleans once which was over 900 miles. Came in crystal clear too, I'm pretty sure even in these ATSC days it would have come in fine.


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## Steveknj (Nov 14, 2006)

Flipped my tuner around and lo and behold, CBS is BACK on DirecTV!! My LCC is no longer needed, but I'll get a few subchannels now that I didn't before, which is a nice bonus.

How soon before our rates go up?


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## kruegs (Feb 19, 2007)

Quick question for folks.... I received my LCC yesterday and set it up without issue. Scanned and found my local channels without a hitch and most are showing 95-100 percent signal. What I have noticed is some stutter on both video and audio... but mostly video. If I quickly pause and un-pause that seems to resolve it. Almost like a buffering issue. Anyone else see this, and/or have feedback on possibly fixing it without having to pause/un-pause every time I change channels?


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

kruegs said:


> Quick question for folks.... I received my LCC yesterday and set it up without issue. Scanned and found my local channels without a hitch and most are showing 95-100 percent signal. What I have noticed is some stutter on both video and audio... but mostly video. If I quickly pause and un-pause that seems to resolve it. Almost like a buffering issue. Anyone else see this, and/or have feedback on possibly fixing it without having to pause/un-pause every time I change channels?


Most everyone sees that - it's a long time issue. The work-a-round you are using is the only solution for the issue.


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## kruegs (Feb 19, 2007)

10-4, thanks for the quick reply... really appreciate it.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

Steveknj said:


> How soon before our rates go up?


Six months. Feb 2020.


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## JerryMeeker (Sep 20, 2007)

I tried re-scanning late yesterday evening. This time, NBC was discovered, but still no luck with ABC, and PBS dropped off the list of channels. I tuned in the channels that were discovered, and the signal strengths were 75-80%. However, on all of the channels the audio and video was choppy, not watchable. My conclusion is that the LCC is not a solution that will work for me.


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## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

The C61K does not plug into the USB port!


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## JerryMeeker (Sep 20, 2007)

gio12 said:


> Where do I plug in LLC if my CK61K is i the USB port of the HR54?


The C61K has a coax connection back to the LNB, and communicates with the Genie over the coax connection. The LCC connects to the HR54 USB port.


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## gio12 (Jul 31, 2006)

Got mine last week and tried it today as CBS was out. Well, CBS is back and this thing only picked up one major network. Rabbit ears worked better as did a basic outdoor antenna located in my attic in the old house.
Might add an OTA someday but will have to run a wire. But not happy with the performance.


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## 24Flames (Aug 24, 2007)

JerryMeeker said:


> When you say reset the HR54, do you mean "Reset Everything", i.e. back to factory defaults?


I used the red button on the side of the unit. You don't lose anything, rather it just restarts the machine.


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## gio12 (Jul 31, 2006)

JerryMeeker said:


> The C61K has a coax connection back to the LNB, and communicates with the Genie over the coax connection. The LCC connects to the HR54 USB port.


Wouldn't recognize plugged into C61k.
Had to plug into HR54 and it stinks

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## JerryMeeker (Sep 20, 2007)

gio12 said:


> Wouldn't recognize plugged into C61k.
> Had to plug into HR54 and it stinks
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


It is not designed to work by connecting it to the C61K. I agree that it stinks.


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## NR4P (Jan 16, 2007)

JerryMeeker said:


> It is not designed to work by connecting it to the C61K. I agree that it stinks.


My bets are on severe multipath or too much signal. You stated you are 5 miles from the towers. I checked the stations, the are 700KW to 1MW ERP, antennas at 1200 feet.

BTW resetting with red button does nothing for OTA. Has to be the Reset in the OTA menu which wipes out all previous scanned memory.


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## gio12 (Jul 31, 2006)

JerryMeeker said:


> It is not designed to work by connecting it to the C61K. I agree that it stinks.


Yes and asked where to connect if usb port on HR54 is being used

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## b4pjoe (Nov 20, 2010)

Are you saying your C61K is working by plugging it into your HR54 USB port instead of using coax to the coax connector on the C61K?


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## JerryMeeker (Sep 20, 2007)

gio12 said:


> Yes and asked where to connect if usb port on HR54 is being used
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


It would help if you were to tell us what is plugged into the HR54 USB port. AFAIK, the USB port on a HR54 should be unused.


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## b4pjoe (Nov 20, 2010)

His original post, which is gone now, said his C61K was plugged into the USB port of the HR54.


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## JerryMeeker (Sep 20, 2007)

b4pjoe said:


> His original post, which is gone now, said his C61K was plugged into the USB port of the HR54.


I suspect this was a misunderstanding, because we both know that the C61K does not connect to a Genie over a USB connection, correct?


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## syphix (Jun 23, 2004)

Indiana627 said:


> I'm also trying to record America's Got Talent on 34.2 and it never records and just gives "this recording was cancelled due to an unexpected error (3)" in the recording history. Does anyone know what this error is? What's the point of the LCC if I still can't record shows?


I'm having that same issue on EVERY show on AntennaTV (5.4) near me. I can record the show if I'm watching it live, but can't record if I'm on another channel or the receiver is off and the recording is scheduled.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## JerryMeeker (Sep 20, 2007)

NR4P said:


> My bets are on severe multipath or too much signal. You stated you are 5 miles from the towers. I checked the stations, the are 700KW to 1MW ERP, antennas at 1200 feet.
> 
> BTW resetting with red button does nothing for OTA. Has to be the Reset in the OTA menu which wipes out all previous scanned memory.


I have long suspected that either multi-path or signal overload is the issue with the signal quality on my AM21. I installed an attenuator, but it didn't make any difference. And I don't really understand how to address the multi-path. Tweaking the direction of the OTA antenna is not very easy-it is on the top of my chimney.

And yes, I performed a "Reset Settings" in the antenna menu prior to each new scan, not a RBR.


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## sstv (Jul 30, 2006)

Hi All
CBS is back in Dallas. I wonder if that means you can't order a LCC now.
SSTV


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

M


slice1900 said:


> The record was picking up a channel from New Orleans once which was over 900 miles


My record was [in 70s] ~2000 km, in Europe.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

gio12 said:


> if usb port on HR54 is being used


get simple USB hub from any store


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## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

JerryMeeker said:


> I have long suspected that either multi-path or signal overload is the issue with the signal quality on my AM21. I installed an attenuator, but it didn't make any difference. And I don't really understand how to address the multi-path. Tweaking the direction of the OTA antenna is not very easy-it is on the top of my chimney.
> 
> And yes, I performed a "Reset Settings" in the antenna menu prior to each new scan, not a RBR.


With severe multipath, changing the direction of the antenna often works. Sometimes receiving the problem stations off the backside of the antenna works. What sort of OTA antenna do you have?


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## JerryMeeker (Sep 20, 2007)

texasbrit said:


> With severe multipath, changing the direction of the antenna often works. Sometimes receiving the problem stations off the backside of the antenna works. What sort of OTA antenna do you have?


I don't recall the model number because the antenna has been in place for at least 10 years.










Here is a shot showing the hill in the distance that is home for all of the TV transmission towers here in Austin (I would guess about 5 mile away):


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

JerryMeeker said:


> Here is a shot showing the hill in the distance that is home for all of the TV transmission towers here in Austin (I would guess about 5 mile away):


A high gain antenna like that pointed at towers only five miles away is going to get a ridiculously strong signal. Maybe so strong it is out of spec for ATSC, but even if not could easily be too strong for some tuners to handle.

I'd try adding like 5 splitters in line with that to knock down the signal 20 db and see if it works more reliably. Heck, you might even need more than that.


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## JerryMeeker (Sep 20, 2007)

slice1900 said:


> A high gain antenna like that pointed at towers only five miles away is going to get a ridiculously strong signal. Maybe so strong it is out of spec for ATSC, but even if not could easily be too strong for some tuners to handle.
> 
> I'd try adding like 5 splitters in line with that to knock down the signal 20 db and see if it works more reliably. Heck, you might even need more than that.


I mentioned earlier that I tried a signal attenuator and it didn't resolve the signal breakup issues. Thanks for the suggestion, but while I am affected by the Nexstar dispute, the only NBC show that I am currently watching is the NBC national news. So, I simply tune the program on my TV using the OTA signal, which on the Sony is rock solid. I can endure commercials for this one program.


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

They need to save up LCCs now for the next DISPUTE this SEPTEMBER for the Sinclair stations.
Good chance I will loose my Fox. I plan to order an LCC. I am currently using a friends from an other City.

I bet more disputes are a coming after this one, just dont have the dates yet.



sstv said:


> Hi All
> CBS is back in Dallas. I wonder if that means you can't order a LCC now.
> SSTV


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## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

Attenuation probably won't help, if its multipath. The problem is that the signal received directly from the transmitter is about the same strength as the secondary signals. Attenuation will just reduce both the main and the multipath signals by the same amount. If you move the antenna around (even as much as 90 degrees!) you change the receive pattern


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## makaiguy (Sep 24, 2007)

texasbrit said:


> If you move the antenna around (even as much as 90 degrees!) you change the receive pattern


Using the Winegard flat antenna that came with the LCC, I was surprised that my best reception of the sole disputed channel I was trying to get was obtained with the antenna laying flat on a high shelf, not vertically on a wall.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

texasbrit said:


> Attenuation probably won't help, if its multipath. The problem is that the signal received directly from the transmitter is about the same strength as the secondary signals. Attenuation will just reduce both the main and the multipath signals by the same amount. If you move the antenna around (even as much as 90 degrees!) you change the receive pattern


Perhaps a very directional antenna, ideally one that can be tuned for his stations?


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## JerryMeeker (Sep 20, 2007)

Adjusting the direction of the antenna would be a trial-and-error exercise. Unfortunately, if you look at the picture of the antenna posted earlier, it is pretty high up on my chimney. Going up and down a ladder to try and get the best orientation is something I am not anxious to do. And installing a rotor is out of the question. I’ll just live with what I have.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

JerryMeeker said:


> I mentioned earlier that I tried a signal attenuator and it didn't resolve the signal breakup issues. Thanks for the suggestion, but while I am affected by the Nexstar dispute, the only NBC show that I am currently watching is the NBC national news. So, I simply tune the program on my TV using the OTA signal, which on the Sony is rock solid. I can endure commercials for this one program.


How much did it attenuate the signal? I think you may need to attenuate it a LOT. ATSC is spec'ed for between -5 to -85 dbm, but I doubt many tuners can actually handle -5 dbm (and a high gain antenna with stations close may exceed that threshold)

For comparison, Directv specs its receivers for -30 to -55 dbm, so you'd have to knock 25 dbm off the most powerful in spec ATSC signal (or more if it exceeds spec) to hit what Directv receivers will accept. Not saying the LCC only works within Directv's levels, but since others have reported similar issues of the LCC not working despite being close to the tower I strongly suspect it doesn't do well with a strong signal and probably should shoot for -25 dbm or less. The inline pads you see for cable are usually something like 6 or 10 db, not nearly enough.


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## 24Flames (Aug 24, 2007)

So this apparently has been a common concern with the LCC. When I hooked it up to my HR-54 and attached my own unamplified indoor antenna, the LCC unit was warm, but not hot. Fast forward a week or two, and I finally hooked up the amplified indoor antenna (Winegard I believe?) that I received from DIRECTV with the LCC to see if I could get better reception. The good news is that I got better reception with the DIRECTV indoor antenna, but the bad news is that the LCC unit itself became hot. And the connector from the antenna cable to the LCC unit connector became very hot....to the point I can't touch it for more than 6-7 seconds before it starts burning my hand.

Consequently, my issues with the LCC are: 1) operating that hot, I think it unlikely it will last for long and 2) of bigger concern, is it literally a fire hazard, because it's simply that hot? (and I have a/c, it's placed next to a vent, so the air temp reaches 71-72 degrees tops). There are multiple reports of LCC's running hot, so it doesn't appear to be simply a few defective units. It makes me think in order to be safe, I should sacrifice the good antenna readings (75%-95%) with the amplified antenna, and just go back to the unamplified antenna readings (60%-75%). Or am I just being paranoid?


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

24Flames said:


> So this apparently has been a common concern with the LCC. When I hooked it up to my HR-54 and attached my own unamplified indoor antenna, the LCC unit was warm, but not hot. Fast forward a week or two, and I finally hooked up the amplified indoor antenna (Winegard I believe?) that I received from DIRECTV with the LCC to see if I could get better reception. The good news is that I got better reception with the DIRECTV indoor antenna, but the bad news is that the LCC unit itself became hot. And the connector from the antenna cable to the LCC unit connector became very hot....to the point I can't touch it for more than 6-7 seconds before it starts burning my hand.
> 
> Consequently, my issues with the LCC are: 1) operating that hot, I think it unlikely it will last for long and 2) of bigger concern, is it literally a fire hazard, because it's simply that hot? (and I have a/c, it's placed next to a vent, so the air temp reaches 71-72 degrees tops). There are multiple reports of LCC's running hot, so it doesn't appear to be simply a few defective units. It makes me think in order to be safe, I should sacrifice the good antenna readings (75%-95%) with the amplified antenna, and just go back to the unamplified antenna readings (60%-75%). Or am I just being paranoid?


I don't think you are being paranoid at all.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

24Flames said:


> So this apparently has been a common concern with the LCC. When I hooked it up to my HR-54 and attached my own unamplified indoor antenna, the LCC unit was warm, but not hot. Fast forward a week or two, and I finally hooked up the amplified indoor antenna (Winegard I believe?) that I received from DIRECTV with the LCC to see if I could get better reception. The good news is that I got better reception with the DIRECTV indoor antenna, but the bad news is that the LCC unit itself became hot. And the connector from the antenna cable to the LCC unit connector became very hot....to the point I can't touch it for more than 6-7 seconds before it starts burning my hand.
> 
> Consequently, my issues with the LCC are: 1) operating that hot, I think it unlikely it will last for long and 2) of bigger concern, is it literally a fire hazard, because it's simply that hot? (and I have a/c, it's placed next to a vent, so the air temp reaches 71-72 degrees tops). There are multiple reports of LCC's running hot, so it doesn't appear to be simply a few defective units. It makes me think in order to be safe, I should sacrifice the good antenna readings (75%-95%) with the amplified antenna, and just go back to the unamplified antenna readings (60%-75%). Or am I just being paranoid?


How far away are the towers you get your locals on? (you can found out on tvfool.com if you don't know) If your towers are close all that amplification would be doing is heating up your LCC. I'm surprised your readings are better with it - I'll bet the difference isn't the Winegard's amplification but that it is either a better antenna period or happens to be oriented in a better location in the room than your antenna.

Most people do not need amplification to receive their locals. Those who do should NOT be using an indoor antenna. I don't know why in the world anyone makes an amplified indoor antenna, talk about a gimmick product!


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

slice1900 said:


> How far away are the towers you get your locals on? (you can found out on tvfool.com if you don't know) If your towers are close all that amplification would be doing is heating up your LCC. I'm surprised your readings are better with it - I'll bet the difference isn't the Winegard's amplification but that it is either a better antenna period or happens to be oriented in a better location in the room than your antenna.
> 
> Most people do not need amplification to receive their locals. Those who do should NOT be using an indoor antenna. I don't know why in the world anyone makes an amplified indoor antenna, talk about a gimmick product!


Thanks to this whole DirecTV & Nexstar dispute I've learn too much about OTA than I cared to learn ROFL.

I find that RabbitEars.Info is very reliable with their maps for each station. They even have maps for stations based on their construction permits for the upcoming repacks. It even gave me a heads up that my NBC and CW stations will at some point be operating under a special temporary authority before they do their repacks and move to their new towers.  TV Fool for some reason omits my ABC station (Sinclair O&O) completely idk why.

I can't install an outdoor antenna at my location because the 1 spot I can install an outdoor antenna with a clear LOS to all the towers is where my DTV dish is (damn trees) and my landlord doesn't want me to attach anything else to the house lol.

With my old Solid Signal Xtreme Signal Flat HD Amplified Indoor/Outdoor TV Antenna the LCC did run warm but to me it didn't set off any alarm bells. To me it felt as warm as my Roku Streaming Stick and Amazon Fire Stick after they had been in use for hours (which is very hot). The connector was hot but not so hot it burned me after 10 seconds. Although that could have been where the amplifier was close to the antenna with the Winegard I believe the amplifier is closer to the LCC. Maybe that could be why the LCC connector is hotter?

After the amplifier died in my Solid Signal antenna I picked up the Antennas Direct ClearStream 2MAX UHF/VHF Indoor/Outdoor HDTV Antenna from Walmart (my local Walmart had it marked down to $64) to use indoor because it came with an indoor stand. It doesn't come with an amplifier but you can purchase one if needed from the manufacturer's website. In my case its the best non-amplified antenna I've ever used.

Ever since installing it my LCC is consistently picking up signal strengths better than my old Solid Signal antenna with an amplifier did. The LCC is also running cooler (its still warm but not alarmingly warm) and the connector is cool to the touch with this one.

I'm actually very shocked its pulling in the ION station so well considering almost every signal strength website says I shouldn't be getting this station even with an outdoor antenna ROFL. If D* gets into a dispute with Sinclair (ABC) I'm ready for them . I ordered Antennas Direct's indoor amplifier to boost the CBS signal and to see what it does to the PBS signal since this the first antenna I've tried that has managed to get any kind of signal for my local PBS station. If it makes the LCC and its connector hotter I'll post here.

Here is a comparison of how my old SS antenna performed before its amplifier completely died. Without the amplifier all those percentages are cut in half I recorded those percentages from my HR44 on 7/24/19. The new ClearStream antenna percentages are from 8/12/19. Both antennas are setting in the same exact spot.


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## 24Flames (Aug 24, 2007)

Thanks “slice1900” and “techguy88”.

To slice1900 -- You’re possibly correct. The major/semi-major 5-6 channel towers in my area vary from 22-32 miles away. 2-3 of those channels were received at 95%-100% with my indoor, unamplified antenna, and the other 2-3 were 58%-66% with that antenna. With the amplified antenna, the 2-3 channels that were previously at 95%-100% dropped 4%-6%, while the 2-3 channels at 57%-66% increased by 16%-19%. I have placed both antennas during testing at the best possible location in the room with my HR-54.

To techguy88 -- Thanks for sharing all, especially your experience with the ClearStream antenna. I’d been researching unamplified indoor/outdoor antennas, and I’m almost certain the ClearStream model you’re using was at the top of my list. Can you post a photo of your ClearStream antenna, or provide a link? Or can you confirm it’s the ClearStream model number C2-V-CJM ?


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

@24Flames The model of the ClearStream 2MAX Antenna I have is the newer, updated model (C2MVJ-5). Right now Lowes has it the lowest for $63.98 on their website. Normally its $79.99. This model doesn't come with the reflector that the older model (C2-V-CJM) does but if you get the newer model and find you need the reflector you can buy it individually through Antennas Direct for $17.99.

I ordered their ClearStream USB In-Line Amplifier with Power Adapter from their website once I get it in and test it out I'll post here how it works.








The antenna looks a little uneven this is due to the table lol I was not planning on the dispute lasting this long. I plan on finding a better, sturdier table soon.


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## 24Flames (Aug 24, 2007)

techguy88 said:


> @24Flames The model of the ClearStream 2MAX Antenna I have is the newer, updated model (C2MVJ-5). Right now Lowes has it the lowest for $63.98 on their website. Normally its $79.99. This model doesn't come with the reflector that the older model (C2-V-CJM) does but if you get the newer model and find you need the reflector you can buy it individually through Antennas Direct for $17.99.
> 
> I ordered their ClearStream USB In-Line Amplifier with Power Adapter from their website once I get it in and test it out I'll post here how it works.
> 
> ...


Yes, excellent, thanks for confirming. I've seen both models and was wondering which one was newer. A couple of the Lowes nearby actually have the C2MVJ-5 in stock, so I'm going to see if I can snag one this weekend. Meanwhile, I'll be interested to hear your amplifier results.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

techguy88 said:


> the 1 spot I can install an outdoor antenna with a clear LOS to all the towers is where my DTV dish is (damn trees) and my landlord doesn't want me to attach anything else to the house lol.


In such case I would mount the OTA antenna to the DTV dish antenna to keep your landlord happy


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

24Flames said:


> Yes, excellent, thanks for confirming. I've seen both models and was wondering which one was newer. A couple of the Lowes nearby actually have the C2MVJ-5 in stock, so I'm going to see if I can snag one this weekend. Meanwhile, I'll be interested to hear your amplifier results.


So I just got the amplifier in and it did help to stabilize the signals coming from the NBC and CBS stations. My goal was to get the CBS station at minimal at 60% strength to prevent pixelation. The moment the LCC hits 50% or lower is when the pixelation starts.

The PBS station is a lost cause until the repack for indoor reception according to RabbitEars. Although I did experiment with moving the ClearStream antenna around and found an unusual spot in my living room that got a really good signal with the amplifier when it comes to my CBS station. 

I also did a LCC vs AM21N test and surprisingly the AM21N beats out the LCC when locking onto signals.  While I like the seamless transition of the LCC when going from a satellite delivered channel to an OTA channel I may keep the AM21N hooked up for now since it it holding on to the signals better.

I'm also shocked the AM21N also has a way less variable gap with with the NBC, CBS, ION and CW stations despite them both being connected to the same exact antenna with the same amplifier in the same location. CBS is surprising me the most as the AM21N has never went below 81%!












P Smith said:


> In such case I would mount the OTA antenna to the DTV dish antenna to keep your landlord happy


Oh that's a good idea may have to look into that. Although I did happen to notice a small area where I could put a pole mount and get a clear LOS to the towers where NBC, CW, CBS, PBS (and soon to be ION after the repack) are located. Apparently it doesn't matter where I point this antenna the Sinclair O&O (ABC) and its sidecar (Fox) will come in rain or shine despite being 30 miles away ROFL.


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## mrro82 (Sep 12, 2012)

I'm not sure if I'm late to this info but I live in a suburb about 30 minutes from downtown Memphis. If I use my home zip code I don't receive all the locals with the LCC. If I use my works zip code which is downtown I receive just about all of them. Both areas receive the same locals so is this just a database error on DirecTVs part? 
According to their website I should receive them all with my home zip code. 

Sent from my LG-H932 using Tapatalk


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

mrro82 said:


> I'm not sure if I'm late to this info but I live in a suburb about 30 minutes from downtown Memphis. If I use my home zip code I don't receive all the locals with the LCC. If I use my works zip code which is downtown I receive just about all of them. Both areas receive the same locals so is this just a database error on DirecTVs part?
> According to their website I should receive them all with my home zip code.


How many scans have you done?

I'm going to guess that it just looks like a different zip code in the same market gives you a different set of stations. Most of us with LCC's get a different set of stations every time we do a scan. Each time it picks up what the antenna is delivering, however, because the LCC is wonky, it locks in more stations some times and fewer stations at other times.

I think it's just a co-incidence making you think it's the zip code.


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## mrro82 (Sep 12, 2012)

Athlon646464 said:


> How many scans have you done?
> 
> I'm going to guess that it just looks like a different zip code in the same market gives you a different set of stations. Most of us with LCC's get a different set of stations every time we do a scan. Each time it picks up what the antenna is delivering, however, because the LCC is wonky, it locks in more stations some times and fewer stations at other times.
> 
> I think it's just a co-incidence making you think it's the zip code.


I've done 2. One with my zip and one with works. The guide is messed up for sure but I'm ok with it to get through this Nexstar dispute. Thanks for the reply. Good info to know for the future.

Sent from my LG-H932 using Tapatalk


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

See my "TIPs" post here in the long thread on why this happens. It how they wrote the software.
There are Two different types of signal levels, one detection during scan and one for actually watching. You may need a splitter.



Athlon646464 said:


> How many scans have you done?
> 
> I'm going to guess that it just looks like a different zip code in the same market gives you a different set of stations. Most of us with LCC's get a different set of stations every time we do a scan. Each time it picks up what the antenna is delivering, however, because the LCC is wonky, it locks in more stations some times and fewer stations at other times.
> 
> I think it's just a co-incidence making you think it's the zip code.


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## 24Flames (Aug 24, 2007)

techguy88 said:


> So I just got the amplifier in and it did help to stabilize the signals coming from the NBC and CBS stations. My goal was to get the CBS station at minimal at 60% strength to prevent pixelation. The moment the LCC hits 50% or lower is when the pixelation starts.
> 
> The PBS station is a lost cause until the repack for indoor reception according to RabbitEars. Although I did experiment with moving the ClearStream antenna around and found an unusual spot in my living room that got a really good signal with the amplifier when it comes to my CBS station.
> 
> ...


So when you hooked up your amplifier and used the LLC, did the LCC (or cable connector fitting to the LCC) become hot or noticeably warmer versus when you used no amplifier?


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

24Flames said:


> So when you hooked up your amplifier and used the LLC, did the LCC (or cable connector fitting to the LCC) become hot or noticeably warmer versus when you used no amplifier?


The LCC and its connector did become warmer with the Antennas Direct amplifier but it felt as hot as an Amazon Fire Stick after 3 hours of use and the connector was very warm but not burning hot.


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## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

The LCC is weird. I did another channel scan at the request of one of our local stations chief engineers. The LCC added some duplicate channels to the guide with slightly different names but “regular schedule” for the guide data. Both the original and the new duplicates entries play the same channel.

I go into edit OTA channels to uncheck the duplicates, and they aren’t listed there at all. I guess I will just ensure they aren’t checks in my favorites list.

Another gripe is if you go to check levels or do a scan it warns you that it’s an disruptive process and will interrupt recordings. In fact if you do this on a client and a genie is on, it prompts a message on the main genie asking if it’s ok to run the scan. The issue I have is this scan should only be occupying the OTA tuner. There should be NO disruption whatsoever for any of the existing satellite tuners.

I just think the software has a lot of bugs to work out yet.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

cypherx said:


> I just think the software has a lot of bugs to work out yet.


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## bt-rtp (Dec 30, 2005)

jamieh1 said:


> Only issue I've had with two different LCCs is the audio skips and pops. If you hit rewind it corrects itself.


You can also just hit pause for a second then hit play to fix the skips.


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## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

bt-rtp said:


> You can also just hit pause for a second then hit play to fix the skips.


AT&T should just build that into the software for now since it's an easy fix until they can determine the root cause. When you tune in, show black screen for 1.5 seconds extra while behind that screen it does exactly that.


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## mrro82 (Sep 12, 2012)

Guess I'm lucky. I haven't had this happen to me. 

Sent from my LG-H932 using Tapatalk


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## makaiguy (Sep 24, 2007)

I had this when I first installed the LCC and scanned. But after I repositioned the antenna, reset the off-air data, and rescanned, I haven't seen it since.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Perhaps it's _flash_ screen telling developers to watch debug log closely this time while customers distracted by the screen


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## machavez00 (Nov 2, 2006)

Too lazy to read through 45 pages. Is everyone using the supplied Winegard antenna, and has anyone tried the LLC with an outdoor antenna.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

machavez00 said:


> Too lazy to read through 45 pages. Is everyone using the supplied Winegard antenna, and has anyone tried the LLC with an outdoor antenna.


Yes. No and yes.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

machavez00 said:


> Too lazy to read through 45 pages





> *Yes*. No and yes.





> Is everyone using the supplied Winegard antenna,





> Yes. *No* and yes.


​


> has anyone tried the LLC with an outdoor antenna.





> Yes. No and *yes*.


​


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## sstv (Jul 30, 2006)

machavez00 said:


> Too lazy to read through 45 pages. Is everyone using the supplied Winegard antenna, and has anyone tried the LLC with an outdoor antenna.


I use a outdoor antenna, no problems. The winegard is a good antenna if you are within 35 miles of the transmitting towers and have a good line of sight.
SSTV


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## machavez00 (Nov 2, 2006)

sstv said:


> I use a outdoor antenna, no problems. The winegard is a good antenna if you are within 35 miles of the transmitting towers and have a good line of sight.
> SSTV


It's 12 miles "as the crow flies" to the antenna farm on South Mountain. There are a few trees but that's it. There is a set low power stations on the Gila River reservation that might be receivable with an outdoor antenna.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

machavez00 said:


> It's 12 miles "as the crow flies" to the antenna farm on South Mountain. There are a few trees but that's it. There is a set low power stations on the Gila River reservation that might be receivable with an outdoor antenna.


Go here and use your exact address (not just your zip code):

RabbitEars.Info

If the stations you want are listed as 'Good', you'll likely be okay with that mousepad antenna mounted in a window facing that antenna farm. If you don't have a window facing the antenna farm, then ymmv.


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## reubenray (Jun 27, 2002)

How many OTA channels can be recorded at the same time with the LCC?


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

reubenray said:


> How many OTA channels can be recorded at the same time with the LCC?


Well, there are 2 tuners, so...

Two


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## coconut13 (Apr 14, 2013)

Here's something anyone using an AM21/LCC on an HR44/54 can use to get more "guides" into their DVR. Since the AM21/LCC now scans channels into your DVR, it picks up ALL the channels your antenna picks up. IF, you pick up channels not in the database for your area, you will have no guide (REG SCHEDULE) listed in your guide. IF you run a secondary zip code with a channel identical to a channel with no guide, you will get the guide from the secondary zip code. This is how it works for me. I'm in the Minneapolis/St Paul DMA. My antenna picks up ALL the regular stations, plus the low-power stations on 14.1-14.5, 25.1-25.6, and 33.1-33.7. I have no guide on any of the low-power stations. But, I run Utica NY (13501) as a primary zip and Washington DC (20001) as a secondary zip. It gives me 33.2 with the Escape guide and 33.3 with the Laff guide. Since Utica carries Escape and Laff on those exact channels and they are in the database, the guides show up on my DVR and match perfectly for me. Since my 33.2 is Escape and my 33.3 is Laff. Washington DC gives me the Get, Grit and Bounce guides on 14.2-14.4 respectively. None of these are on the right channels but I receive these channels and can reference the guide for them this way. After you run and establish your primary zip the DVR will let you run 2 more zips to "fill in guides" on any channel that has "REGULAR SCHEDULE". Remember you need a zip with the same channel number as the channel without a guide. But by doing this "TRICK" you can put some guides into your DVR and if you're lucky you can maybe even "match" channels and get a correct guide for your channel like I do on 33.2 and 33.3. Try it, it works. This is on an HR44 AM21 setup.


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

Anyone try to order one lately now that the disputes are over.
Will they ship one?


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

scottchez said:


> Anyone try to order one lately now that the disputes are over.


The disputes aren't over. Our local ABC, FOX and MNT stations are still dark.


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

coconut13 said:


> Here's something anyone using an AM21/LCC on an HR44/54 can use to get more "guides" into their DVR. Since the AM21/LCC now scans channels into your DVR, it picks up ALL the channels your antenna picks up. IF, you pick up channels not in the database for your area, you will have no guide (REG SCHEDULE) listed in your guide. IF you run a secondary zip code with a channel identical to a channel with no guide, you will get the guide from the secondary zip code. This is how it works for me. I'm in the Minneapolis/St Paul DMA. My antenna picks up ALL the regular stations, plus the low-power stations on 14.1-14.5, 25.1-25.6, and 33.1-33.7. I have no guide on any of the low-power stations. But, I run Utica NY (13501) as a primary zip and Washington DC (20001) as a secondary zip. It gives me 33.2 with the Escape guide and 33.3 with the Laff guide. Since Utica carries Escape and Laff on those exact channels and they are in the database, the guides show up on my DVR and match perfectly for me. Since my 33.2 is Escape and my 33.3 is Laff. Washington DC gives me the Get, Grit and Bounce guides on 14.2-14.4 respectively. None of these are on the right channels but I receive these channels and can reference the guide for them this way. After you run and establish your primary zip the DVR will let you run 2 more zips to "fill in guides" on any channel that has "REGULAR SCHEDULE". Remember you need a zip with the same channel number as the channel without a guide. But by doing this "TRICK" you can put some guides into your DVR and if you're lucky you can maybe even "match" channels and get a correct guide for your channel like I do on 33.2 and 33.3. Try it, it works. This is on an HR44 AM21 setup.


Ah yes I remember this old trick now it was how to get around the limitation of the HR44/54 not being able to scan for channels not in the database lol. I'm in no hurry atm with trying to see if there is another zip that has Heroes & Icons on 30.2 and StartTV on 30.3 lol. (I've already got used to when Medium comes on StartTV rofl) My UHF channels are in Phase 6 of the repack which should be completed by 10/18/19 and I'm waiting to see if D* will add those two subchannels to the database when they update the RF# once all the UHF channels move in my DMA.


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## coconut13 (Apr 14, 2013)

Since 30.2 and 30.3 are not in the current database for Huntington, you could still receive them by running Memphis TN (37501) as a secondary zip. WLMT 30.2 (METV) and WLMT 30.3 (START), would show up in your guide. START would match perfectly for you in the guide and you would have a METV guide on 30.2, which is H&I for you. You get both channels into your DVR, with 30.3 matching guides.


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

coconut13 said:


> Since 30.2 and 30.3 are not in the current database for Huntington, you could still receive them by running Memphis TN (37501) as a secondary zip. WLMT 30.2 (METV) and WLMT 30.3 (START), would show up in your guide. START would match perfectly for you in the guide and you would have a METV guide on 30.2, which is H&I for you. You get both channels into your DVR, with 30.3 matching guides.


Thanks coconut! I just used this when I hooked my AM21N to my HR24 with my spare antenna  I had forgotten for a moment that the HR24 can't scan for channels like the HR44 can rofl.


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## coconut13 (Apr 14, 2013)

If you have an HR44/AM21 setup which SCANS. You have 30.2 and 30.3 with no guide (regular schedule). But, if you run Memphis as a secondary zip on the HR44, it will fill in 30.2 (METV) and 30.3 (Start) from Memphis in your guide. Helpful on 30.3, but still the wrong guide on 30.2.


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## Steady Teddy (Jan 23, 2007)

I mentioned this in another thread but I'll post it here too.

All the channels I get after scanning look perfect-as good as the D* channels. But I'm seeing video stuttering on ALL channels. Could this be that signal is still not strong enough even though the PQ looks great, or could it be an issue with the LCC?


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

Steady Teddy said:


> I mentioned this in another thread but I'll post it here too.
> 
> All the channels I get after scanning look perfect-as good as the D* channels. But I'm seeing video stuttering on ALL channels. Could this be that signal is still not strong enough even though the PQ looks great, or could it be an issue with the LCC?


It's the LCC - just not ready for prime time (sry for the pun). Hit pause, then play to fix the stuttering.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Athlon646464 said:


> It's the LCC - just not ready for prime time (sry for the pun). *Hit pause, then play to fix the stuttering*.


so, you involuntary reveal - it's STB problem !!! 
all the trick functions are doing by FW of STB!


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

P Smith said:


> so, you involuntary reveal - it's STB problem !!!
> all the trick functions are doing by FW of STB!


Didn't think of it in that way - good point.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Just because it is fixed by doing something on the receiver doesn't mean it isn't an issue with the LCC. If it has problems delivering data over the USB link 'live' because it is sometimes delaying some data or sending corrupted data that needs to be resent, then the pause/play trick that would effectively view 'a second less than live' would work around a problem with the LCC.

If I had to guess I'd say it may be a Linux driver issue with the LCC. OEMs that develop stuff like TV tuners put far more effort into their Windows drivers since that's what most people run on their PCs. I'm assuming the device would be a market failure if it stuttered under Windows. so it seems unlikely to me that it does (if someone wants to try it on their Windows laptop, and can find the right driver, this could be confirmed)

The Linux driver typically gets less attention, and in order to fix this issue the company that makes the LCC would have to be able to replicate the issue. Assuming Directv has the source they might have the means to fix it themselves, but still would still someone with the ability to understand the issue and know what needs to be done. They might not have anyone doing kernel/driver level programming, relying on OEMs to do that for them and only dealing with the higher layers like the GUI etc.


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## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

Has anyone ever tried connecting an LCC to a Windows 10 PC? Would the automatic search for drivers find something? Boy that would be interesting.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

Y


cypherx said:


> Has anyone ever tried connecting an LCC to a Windows 10 PC? Would the automatic search for drivers find something? Boy that would be interesting.


Yes. Results somewhere in this thread.


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## sstv (Jul 30, 2006)

Hi All
I started this post and I have a followup. I got my LCC, plugged it in and my HR54 installed it. Everything worked fine except CBS channel 11. This was the dispute channel. Without going into a lot of detail, 11 was very flaky. I had a service call and the Tech said a replacement HR54 would not cure the problem. I checked out everything I could think of and it always came back to the HR54 so another service call and this time I insisted that the 54 be replaced, The new 54 was a duplicate of the old one,HR54-500, and the problem has gone away.
The Lcc has a fussy USB connector. The tech had to wiggle the usb connection to get it to install. He tried another LCC with the same results so wiggle the USB if your having install problems. Its cheap and who knows.
I use my LCC mainly to avoid rain fade on recorded programs and that has worked out very nicely. The LCC has two tuners and if you need three, pick one and use the sat. channel.
SSTV


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

If replacing the HR54 "fixed" it maybe it is the HR54 that has the fussy USB connector and not the LCC?


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## sstv (Jul 30, 2006)

slice1900 said:


> If replacing the HR54 "fixed" it maybe it is the HR54 that has the fussy USB connector and not the LCC?


BOTH hr54'S had the problem.
SSTV


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## csyrell (Sep 6, 2012)

Have been without local Fox all year. Now seeing warning that NBC/CBS affiliates may be going away. Called DTV and they refuse to send me a LCC. Any advice?


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

csyrell said:


> Have been without local Fox all year. Now seeing warning that NBC/CBS affiliates may be going away. Called DTV and they refuse to send me a LCC. Any advice?


What equipment do you have?

By the way, LCC's work only with HR44's and HR54's.


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

Its possible after the Nexstar dispute they ran out?


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

techguy88 said:


> Its possible after the Nexstar dispute they ran out?


That's possible. It is also possible since the LCC hasn't been as trouble free as it should be that they are switching suppliers to get one that's more reliable. Or dropping the whole thing as too much hassle.


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

slice1900 said:


> That's possible. It is also possible since the LCC hasn't been as trouble free as it should be that they are switching suppliers to get one that's more reliable. Or dropping the whole thing as too much hassle.


Nah they haven't given up on the LCC as it was mentioned in a letter by AT&T to Washington as an option they will utilize if Sinclair stations go dark. I'm thinking after the Nexstar dispute their supply has greatly diminished so they are working on building it back up. From what I've heard from some friends at the call centers AT&T is only distributing them to the 12 undeserved markets where D* historically has never offered locals. So the current dispute markets (Northwest, Sinclair sidecars from May & June and Cowles Montana Media) are currently not eligible for LCC at the present moment.

Now if someone in one of those dispute markets can't pick up their locals with an outdoor antenna they the option of requesting DNS for the missing local (they can verify that by checking the FCC Map). If the account hasn't been converted to AT&T's billing system those customers can apply for DNS online here. If the account has been converted over to AT&T's system then you have to call in to request DNS.

According a friend that is in the Spokane, Washington DMA he actually applied for DNS for his Fox (Northwest) and NBC (Cowles) because he can't get either of them with an outdoor antenna and he eventually was approved for them. He used the online form since his account wasn't converted. He said Fox took a few days but NBC was within minutes. And yes he is being charged $2.50 per DNS.


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## Lajntx (Feb 28, 2018)

csyrell said:


> Have been without local Fox all year. Now seeing warning that NBC/CBS affiliates may be going away. Called DTV and they refuse to send me a LCC. Any advice?


I was in the same exact situation. Didn't have some locals, and calling about an LCC simply resulted in "Peggy" either trying to sign me up for distants or telling me DTV already broadcast my locals and I didn't need anything else to receive them. I bit the bullet and bought one off of ebay. Now not only can I watch locals, I`ll never get cut off again. As a very nice bonus, I`ll never have deal with "Peggy" about it either.


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

Athlon646464 said:


> What equipment do you have?
> 
> By the way, *LCC's work only with HR44's and HR54'*s.


Define "work" . If you mean they deliver a picture and audio drop outs every 5 seconds, then yeah, they "work. Thanks, but I'll stick with good ol' reliable pizza box for now.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

SledgeHammer said:


> Define "work" . If you mean they deliver a picture and audio drop outs every 5 seconds, then yeah, they "work. Thanks, but I'll stick with good ol' reliable pizza box for now.


Good one. I gave up on the pie as well and went with an OTA DVR.


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## mrro82 (Sep 12, 2012)

If it started stuttering I changed channels and came back and it was fine. Really came in handy during a storm. Only thing I could watch was through the LCC. 

Sent from my LG-H932 using Tapatalk


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

I reconnected my LCC back to my HR44 and moved the AM21 to my HR24 with my extra antenna so this way all my TVs have some form of antenna connectivity. Since hooking up the LCC again I haven't noticed any issue with the OTA channels most of the time. Once in a blue moon the audio will studder but pressing pause then play fixes the issue.

Since I am using the antennas indoor this has a side effect the HR44 picks up all my locals great except my local PBS station. The HR24 picks up all my locals except the CBS station. Go figure rofl.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

mrro82 said:


> I haven't had any issue with my LCC.
> 
> If it started stuttering I changed channels and came back and it was fine.


Those two statements don't agree with each other.


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## mrro82 (Sep 12, 2012)

trh said:


> Those two statements don't agree with each other.


They don't. I was trying to say that I wasn't having a lot of the issues other were having. I'll edit the post.

Sent from my LG-H932 using Tapatalk


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## csyrell (Sep 6, 2012)

Athlon646464 said:


> What equipment do you have?
> 
> By the way, LCC's work only with HR44's and HR54's.


HR44


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

csyrell said:


> HR44


Sounds like you qualify for one. Mystery to me why they won't send you one, unless it's the rumored shortage.


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## Lajntx (Feb 28, 2018)

It`s started again. Im trying to simply enjoy the game tonight and my local FOX station keeps scrolling an extra large scroll across the screen complaining about how terrible "Big Bad ATT" is with Uverse and Directv & about to "take" the channel off the air and "deny" me programming "I`m paying for". Buying that LCC on ebay has been a good investment. It even allowed me to add in the neighboring market and I was able to switch over to the other Fox station already in the Directv guide and watch the game minus the annoying scroll. I don't lose stations anymore, I don't miss any games, and I get both OTA markets in my guide - and- can record from them. A true win-win-win situation and I don't even have to deal with "Peggy" anymore as a bonus. It`s well worth the price buying it from a reseller if Directv wont give you one.


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## jorb (Mar 22, 2008)

Can someone explain to me why would at&t use the resources to update/add to the OTA channel database, I.E. local sub channels. But not make available the product (LCC) that enables their customers to utilize the OTA channel database that just they just updated?


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## glrush (Jun 29, 2002)

The whole LCC “strategy “ has been a real head scratcher to me. I thought the reason they were gonna roll this thing out was to allow customers save some money by opting out of the local network fee, which Dish does. But like some many ideas from AT&T it appears to be half baked with no strategy at all. Maybe the broadcasters insisted that AT&T not allow such an opt out as part of their carriage deal, who knows. My LCC works great, but many others have had problems. It’s kind of a joke.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

jorb said:


> Can someone explain to me why would at&t use the resources to update/add to the OTA channel database, I.E. local sub channels. But not make available the product (LCC) that enables their customers to utilize the OTA channel database that just they just updated?


Just guesses on my part (in no particular order):

1) It's given away no charge during outages to bolster AT&T's bargaining position.
2) There's a shortage of them.
3) They're waiting for the software to be 'improved' (would like to say 'perfected', but this is AT&T after all). It would be a CSR nightmare for them until then.

btw, there are rumors on another site that they are currently working on #3.


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## jorb (Mar 22, 2008)

glrush said:


> I thought the reason they were gonna roll this thing out was to allow customers save some money by opting out of the local network fee, which Dish does. Maybe the broadcasters insisted that AT&T not allow such an opt out as part of their carriage deal, who knows. It's kind of a joke.


 I didn't know that Dish are letting customers opt out of Sat locals. Good to know. A broadcaster carriage contract no opt out deal might be the reason. How would a person know for sure. A joke is a understatement.

I think they should release the LCC because it is a safety issue. When I need to see local weather my sat dish goes out due to rain fade. The TV signal goes out when I need it the most. With the LCC I wouldn't have the rain fade issue.


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## jorb (Mar 22, 2008)

Athlon646464 said:


> btw, there are rumors on another site that they are currently working on #3.


Drum Roll Please; What site may that Be??


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

jorb said:


> I think they should release the LCC because it is a safety issue. When I need to see local weather my sat dish goes out due to rain fade. The TV signal goes out when I need it the most. With the LCC I wouldn't have the rain fade issue.


I can only imagine the lawsuit if they stated that was one of the purposes and the thing failed during a storm.

Also - you can always connect your antenna directly to your TV and have it available for those emergencies.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

jorb said:


> Drum Roll Please; What site may that Be??


Not sure I can do that here....


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

jorb said:


> Drum Roll Please; What site may that Be??


Don't stir the pot !


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## jorb (Mar 22, 2008)

Athlon646464 said:


> Also - you can always connect your antenna directly to your TV and have it available for those emergencies.


 It is easy to switch from Sat input to TV tuner input for us tech knowledgeable folk. But ask a senior citizen to do it. Not a pretty picture!


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

I hope they are working on improving it, or replacing it if the issue is hardware related. MVPDs are paying $15/month for locals now and that cost continues to rise. Giving people a way to save that money would go a long way toward reducing cord cutting.

I'm really surprised no cable companies are getting on board with this. A lot of cable hardware has a USB port, so it should at least be theoretically possible to connect an LCC like device. Since cable's subscriber base is more likely to be able to pick OTA signals it would work even better for them than it does for Directv/Dish.


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

slice1900 said:


> I hope they are working on improving it, or replacing it if the issue is hardware related.


And make it work with the HS17.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

slice1900 said:


> I'm really surprised no cable companies are getting on board with this. A lot of cable hardware has a USB port, so it should at least be theoretically possible to connect an LCC like device. Since cable's subscriber base is more likely to be able to pick OTA signals it would work even better for them than it does for Directv/Dish.


Cable has different laws. Cable companies are required to offer carriage to most if not all local channels and include locals in all packages. (A percentage of channels carried must be set aside for locals. That percentage is high enough that most cable system have carried all locals before they reach the threshhold.) True, they could refuse to pay for stations that choose "consent to carry". I'm not sure how the FCC would look at a cable company providing an alternative means.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

TheRatPatrol said:


> And make it work with the HS17.


If part of the fix is new hardware, there isn't much point in making the old hardware work with the HS17. If they do new hardware, hopefully they will be forward looking and make it ATSC 3.0 capable, or at least designed to be software upgradeable to ATSC 3.0 at a later date. We're going to start seeing ATSC 3.0 channels begin to light up before long since we're on the tail end of the repack.

I think part of their problem has been the way they've just been giving them away - if they planned to do that all along then they were undoubtedly shopping around for the cheapest crap they could find, and judging from people's reports on it in many cases being worse than the decade old AM21, got what they paid for.

I can see giving them away to people affected by a dispute who call in to complain about losing channels, but they could/should make people pay for it if they are getting one to drop their locals. At $15/month, Directv could say "we'll take the locals off your bill which will save you $15/month, and you'll pay for this at $10/month over the next 3 or 6 months" and it would save them money, Directv would get enough revenue to pay for a quality tuner while subsidizing giving away freebies to people affected by disputes...everybody wins!

They could save money by only activating the ATSC 3.0 capability in the ones you buy, and leaving it dormant in the ones given away for disputes. The patent licenses for ATSC 1.0 were $20 plus in the 2000s though most have expired by now, I imagine ATSC 3.0 is at least that much.


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## jorb (Mar 22, 2008)

Just think about how much Satellite channel space that would be freed-up if DirecTV did away all the nationwide satellite down-linked local TV channels.. Do you think that would be a cost savings to the subscriber?

At&t could easily build a receiver that included integrated OTA tuners. With OTA channels included in the TV guide.


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## b4pjoe (Nov 20, 2010)

Well that would suck. I'm 80 miles from my local channels and I'm sure there are many subscribers in the same situation that cannot receive locals no matter how great the OTA tuners are.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

jorb said:


> Just think about how much Satellite channel space that would be freed-up if DirecTV did away all the nationwide satellite down-linked local TV channels.. Do you think that would be a cost savings to the subscriber?
> 
> At&t could easily build a receiver that included integrated OTA tuners. With OTA channels included in the TV guide.


It's hard to know where to even begin...

They wouldn't gain hardly anything by not having locals off sat from a bandwidth point. Locals use spot beams so it's not a one for one on how many local channels could be replaced by national channels. You'd gain probably four national transponders. And since they have what 20 transponders that are or will soon be available plus the impending reconfigurations that will do away with multiple versions of the same national channels the gain in bandwidth is negligible at best from getting rid of locals for everyone.

Plus locals take up a lot less space on a DVR from sat vs over the air. They can also sometimes be better quality.

So many people can't get locals over the air and depend on sat delivery. And the massive costs to install antennas for everyone would be cost prohibitive as well.

That is how they used to do it and yet they pulled over the air tuners out of the sat boxes. There is a reason...

Offering an option that allows for both is best. And that's kind of what they do now.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

jorb said:


> Can someone explain to me why would at&t use the resources to update/add to the OTA channel database, I.E. local sub channels. But not make available the product (LCC) that enables their customers to utilize the OTA channel database that just they just updated?


Awh, people with am21 are getting the benefits of the upgraded over the air guide data.

You do have to redo any setup.

It's a slow rollout though if you don't already have the am21 or are in a market that allows the lcc.


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## jorb (Mar 22, 2008)

Here is the scenario.
Will the AM21 work with a HR54 genie? If it does?

I want to upgrade to a HS17 Genie tower, but I want to retain the HR54 with an AM21 to use on my main 4k TV. The kicker is D* will not allow any other receivers on the account if you have a HS17 Genie tower.

Can I tell D* that I'm using the HR54 in my Recreational Vehicle or at my vacation cottage to get the around the HS17 Genie tower only rule.

Is it possible to connect a HR54 and a HS17 Genie tower to the same dish?


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## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

No to all of that.You can't have more than one genie on the account. Period. If you have (and pay for) a completely separate account for the cottage or RV you can have a genie there. 
Just to remind you you are not supposed to move any of the receivers on the account to a second location.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

jorb said:


> Just think about how much Satellite channel space that would be freed-up if DirecTV did away all the nationwide satellite down-linked local TV channels.. Do you think that would be a cost savings to the subscriber?


There would need to be a benefit to freeing the space. AT&T|DIRECTV owns the transponders and isn't going to get any money back from discontinuing their use. Freed up, but what is the benefit? Without needing to feed spotbeams AT&T|DIRECTV would not need to have as many uplink centers and backhauls. So there would be some savings to the company. Any savings passed on to the customer would probably be minor or just an offset against routine increases.

Free LCCs are a minor cost. A small device with some development costs added to a deployed receiver. Swapping out receivers for new ones with built in OTA would be more expensive. And when OTA tuners change in a couple of years the receivers would become obsolete. External modules make more sense.


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## bjdotson (Feb 20, 2007)

jorb said:


> It is easy to switch from Sat input to TV tuner input for us tech knowledgeable folk. But ask a senior citizen to do it. Not a pretty picture!


Not every senior citizen lacks tech knowledge. Got my first DVR 25 years ago; stripped down a coax cable to make an rf antenna so my remote could work through walls. Wrote computer programs in Basic and Fortran. Surfed the internet when it was only text based using a search engine called gopher. Started using the WWW before there was JAVA. Worked for the government so saw a demonstration of the WWW at the University of Utah directly from CERN. Worked on the Computer response team (and later in the computer department) at work starting in the late 1980s or early 1990s. I am 68, I think I could find a tv tuner input. You know what the say; "all generalizations are false"


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## jorb (Mar 22, 2008)

bjdotson said:


> Not every senior citizen lacks tech knowledge.


 I stand corrected, I'm sorry if I offended tech savvy senior citizens.

It would be easier to RF modulate the Sat receiver's Audio & Video output into a unused ATSC digital RF channel. Then all a person would have to do is tune to that unused channel with the HDTV remote, and then pickup the Sat receivers remote to control Sat receiver.

The real benefit of the AM21 and the LCC is not only that they can seamlessly integrate OTA channels into the Sat receivers channel line up, the real benefit is they insert 14 days of local OTA program channel guide info into the Sat receivers EPG. (Electronic Program Guide) Can't really do that with a RF modulator. But you could utilize the OTA PSIP EPG.

.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

The "input" button on my TV remote works nicely. And the remote integrates with my satellite receiver (changing channels, showing and selecting recorded content). If I choose to use the satellite remote the TV automatically turns on and off with a press of the power button on the satellite remote, and changes to the satellite input. My TV also changes to the correct input when I turn on my DVD/BluRay player.

While "Smart TVs" vary, they can make things that were once hard easy.


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## jorb (Mar 22, 2008)

Awhile back there was some VCRs that had composite inputs that inserted themselves into the NTSC tuner channel lineup. No need to access the composite AV source by using a dedicated button on the remote. You just used the channel up & down button to access the composite AV input source. The input was inserted in between channel 2 and channel 125


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Many DISH receivers had built in modulators (I'm not sure about DIRECTV). But since it was NTSC it was all SD and nowhere near the quality that one can get today by using a HDMI connection or clients with a HDMI connection.

Technology has changed, the "RF modulator" isn't as popular or as useful as it once was. On the good side, the price of ATSC modulators has come down, so one can do a HD channel insert with separate equipment. But the cost is still too high to build in to new receivers. Clients and HDMI work better and are more secure (open ATSC signals can be recorded on devices that do not protect copyright in the same ways as DIRECTV receivers).


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## Scott McIntosh (Jan 24, 2020)

I've had an LCC for a number of months. All I was interested in was watching MeTV, 32.2, WMOR. All was fine until that channel changed frequencies a couple of weeks ago. I ran setup again to get the correct channel mapping, which didn't work, until a rep asked to reset the settings first. That worked for a week. Come Tuesday morning all 32.2 was showing on the TV was a blank screen. It worked the night before. 

I've must of run setup 20 or 30 times trying to get 32.2 back. Each time I get slightly different results. What I do get are multiples of the same channel. In edit channels, I see for example, 3.1 repeated 5 times, 3.2 will be repeated 5 and so on. Sometimes 32.1, 32.2 and 32.3 are repeated 3 times each, sometimes 4. Sometimes I will see MeTV listed for the call letters and sometimes it will be WMORDT2. If I check signal strength only one sub-channel will have a strong signal, the other will say signal not acquired. I remove all channels and check the one that has the signal. When I added it to the guide, I see Bounce TV, which should be on channels 52.2 instead. 

I've unplugged the LCC and rebooted the Genie. None of that helps. Each time before I run setup, I always run reset setup first. I have no idea why this worked for months and now I end up with multiples of each channel and one is pointing to another channel. I called DTV and the rep told me that since I receive satellite fine and there are no disputes in my area, they don't care about the LCC. Can anybody help, please?


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

slice1900 said:


> I think part of their problem has been the way they've just been giving them away - if they planned to do that all along then they were undoubtedly shopping around for the cheapest crap they could find, and judging from people's reports on it in many cases being worse than the decade old AM21, got what they paid for.


Yup. I got audio dropouts every 5 seconds on every channel with the LCC. To this day, my AM21 works great. I suspect DirecTV doesn't really care about it based on the support I got (they told me to climb up in my attic and move the antenna after I told them the AM21 works great) and the small percent of folks who want it. The big boy locals ABC, CBS, FOX, etc. work fine on my AM21. The sub channels are all ridiculous train wrecks. I'm in the top 2 market. LA. To this day, the majority of my sub channels are not configured correctly. How many engineers does it take to NOT send a 4:3 picture as 3:3? Or a 16:9 one NOT in 5 layers of letter boxing & pillars? ABC -3 in LA is completely unwatchable. Every show on it is distorted in different ways. Also the 20-x subchannels. Pretty much pointless having subchannels at this point lol.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Scott McIntosh said:


> If I check signal strength only one sub-channel will have a strong signal


what is SQ value for your all RF channels


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## Scott McIntosh (Jan 24, 2020)

P Smith said:


> what is SQ value for your all RF channels


3.1 WEDU HD is 81/9
3.2 81/81
3.3 91/91
3.4 81/81
3.5 81/83
3.6 85/87
28.1 WFTSDT 40/34
28.2 40/38
28.3 40/34
28.4 38/38
32.1 WMORDT 81/85
32.2 81/81
32.3 81/81
50.1 WFTTDT 75/73
50.2 77/75
50.3 79/77
50.4 79/75

The other duplicates of these had no signal acquired.

I added 32.2 and 52.2 to my guide and both are showing a black screen.

I hooked the antenna to the TV and was able to watch all, except 8 and 10 didn't get picked up. 32.2 was MeTV. That's the only channel I want to see via the LCC. I hope this is the information is what you asked for.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

I would say one thing - it's weird to see different SS/SQ on subchannels of one PHYSICAL freq - one modulation - one TS for all ch/subchs!
I've only one suggestion - it's need watch for a [couple] minute SS/SQ of all ch/subch of one freq and make min/max/average numbers.
For sure only a distribution path of ch 28 (from a transmitter to your LCC) is in trouble.
Rest of channels looks good by SS/SQ numbers.
One major thing is missing from your post is notes about SS/SQ fluctuations during a couple minutes of observation...

One more thing - if you could...or someone in your circle, could run TSreader with 8VSB USB tuner and check more parameters of your RF signal at the end of coax cable right before LCC. Parameters like TS errors, continuity errors, etc


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## Scott McIntosh (Jan 24, 2020)

P Smith said:


> One more thing - if you could...or someone in your circle, could run TSreader with 8VSB USB tuner and check more parameters of your RF signal at the end of coax cable right before LCC. Parameters like TS errors, continuity errors, etc


I ran setup again and now I get 13.1, 13.2, 13.4, 13.5. I checked all 6 13.1s and found that number 4 had a good signal. I think that 2nd 13.1 had a weak signal. The other had not acquired. In the attached image there are 6 13.1s. The other channels that were detected yesterday are no longer detected today. I selected the 4th 13.1 and added to the guide. I get a good picture.

The signal strength for the signal strength from tuner 1 ranged from 73 to 83, while for tuner 2, it ranged from 77 to 85.

My antenna is located in the attic. It's an old bar type that I purchased about 22 years ago.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Do you delete all OTA channels before do new scan ?

And I'm still scratching my head when hearing of different SS/SQ for one RF channels


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## Scott McIntosh (Jan 24, 2020)

Yes, I reset settings prior to running setup again. Why are there multiples of the same channel/sub channels? I don't understand that? Prior to this week I always got what I expected, 1 channel/sub-channel per station. When I ran the scan on my TV, I got a normal channel selection.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

that's puzzling … buggy FW ?


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## Scott McIntosh (Jan 24, 2020)

P Smith said:


> that's puzzling &#8230; buggy FW ?


I was planning on refreshing the receiver's software, AT&T's website has listed my receiver as offline. I know it's not as I checked the connection from the receiver. I'll just give DTV a call Monday and see what they can do. Isn't the LCC itself just a tuner and the receiver contains the software to process it?


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## JerryMeeker (Sep 20, 2007)

My experiences with the LCC have not been good either. Every time I run setup, I get different results. And when I try to watch channels it actually discovered, the quality of the video is terrible (frequent breakups and pixelation). My experiences with an AM21 on my HR24 have not been very good either. IMO, DirecTV does not have a viable solution for OTA reception at this time.


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## Athlon646464 (Feb 23, 2007)

I picked up a Tablo expecting more and more frequent disputes. Works great - it just works.

Did this after my frustration with both the AM21 and the LCC.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Scott McIntosh said:


> Isn't the LCC itself just a tuner and the receiver contains the software to process it?


It has inside own controller [CPU] and own FW.


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## Scott McIntosh (Jan 24, 2020)

Scott McIntosh said:


> 3.1 WEDU HD is 81/9
> 3.2 81/81
> 3.3 91/91
> 3.4 81/81
> ...


Unplugged the LCC and plugged it back in. Reset settings and ran setup again. It only picked up these two stations. Channel 3 now has a weak signal, while 28 has a good signal (upper 70s to low 80s). The duplicate channels are gone. Would that be a problem with the LCC, when a channel has a good signal strength in one setup and weak in another? I'm not sure if I should get a new antenna?

I guess I will keep running setup from time to time to see if I can get the channel I want, 32, with a good signal. Maybe I'll get lucky.


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## 24Flames (Aug 24, 2007)

JerryMeeker said:


> My experiences with the LCC have not been good either. Every time I run setup, I get different results. And when I try to watch channels it actually discovered, the quality of the video is terrible (frequent breakups and pixelation). My experiences with an AM21 on my HR24 have not been very good either. IMO, DirecTV does not have a viable solution for OTA reception at this time.


Amen. :thumbsup:


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Scott McIntosh said:


> I'm not sure if I should get a new antenna?


I would try it anyway as a new LCC if it's doable


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## Scott McIntosh (Jan 24, 2020)

I replaced the attic antenna with Antennas Direct's, Clearstream 4. On my TV, I was able to go from receiving 27 channels with the old antenna to 58 with the new one. The LCC picked up far fewer channels and the signal strength was weaker than the TV's tuner. I ran setup 2 times and on the second try, it picked up the channel I wanted.


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