# Why won't Direct TV refund Hot Pass, after we have been duped?



## bonkthat (Feb 25, 2007)

I dropped my Comcast after finding out Nascar In-Car was no longer available. Then I signed up with DirectTV after seeing the Dale Jr. commercial touting Hot Pass. 

What a crock. What are we paying for exactly? With 70% of driver communications blacked out in favor of commercials, I don't see how the Dale Jr. commercial isn't false advertising. 

I've watched one race with Hot Pass, yet Direct TV won't refund even a portion of the entire season cost.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

What it ever stated that it would be commercial free?

Other then the issue I have seen about some people not having the right equipment, and that not being "explained" properly.

What exactly in the advertisements for HotPass are you not getting?

If you haven't been reading the other threads, a person involved with HotPass has stated that they will have a dedicated audio track JUST for team audio, that won't be covered up by the commentary.

Commercials still will be played though.


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## Tony1097 (Apr 26, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> What it ever stated that it would be commercial free?
> 
> Other then the issue I have seen about some people not having the right equipment, and that not being "explained" properly.
> 
> ...


"Ride Shotgun the whole race" "Hear everything me and Tony Jr said on the Radio" to me "Everything" and "Whole Race" includes during commercials


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## hambonewd (Feb 7, 2007)

i personally think you have a good point


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Tony1097 said:


> "Ride Shotgun the whole race" "Hear everything me and Tony Jr said on the Radio" to me "Everything" and "Whole Race" includes during commercials


Well... then... I guess to comply...
I would guess you will see an audio track that has the commercials and the team audio at the same time.

I guess they should have promoted the free-view more, for the first week.
So more people could see exactly what they would get before they agreed to the contract.


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## dodge boy (Mar 31, 2006)

I used to have C-band and I could pick up the network "Wild Feed" from the track and there were no commercials, no commentators and no radio "chatter" just the droning sound of 43 screaming small block V-8s..... I get goosebumps just remebering it, I might have to go home tonight and fire up my Charger in my garage now.


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## JeffBowser (Dec 21, 2006)

I wonder when they will fire up the "Paint Drying" season ticket  

Ok, ok, I couldn't resist. I never got into watching cars go around and around, like the wheels on the bus are purported to do.


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## dodge boy (Mar 31, 2006)

JeffBowser said:


> I wonder when they will fire up the "Paint Drying" season ticket
> 
> Ok, ok, I couldn't resist. I never got into watching cars go around and around, like the wheels on the bus are purported to do.


I'm just a "Motor Head" at heart and am into cars.... Well Mopars anyway.... "Mopar or No Car"! But it is better than The Tennis Channel so many people are begging for, or Golf, and hey HillBillies need a sport too!


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## Mrpalmer420 (Jan 9, 2007)

Also i don't understand why they wouldn't let peaple cancel after the first week since it was free for all D*. Technically then what you paid for is not the first week but for every race afterward. I subs got something more then everyone else during week one then OK but if everyone got week one then the paid sub doesnt start on that week. If D* was smart they would have made the free week on race 2 so that this argument couldn't have been brought up.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Mrpalmer420 said:


> Also i don't understand why they wouldn't let peaple cancel after the first week since it was free for all D*. Technically then what you paid for is not the first week but for every race afterward. I subs got something more then everyone else during week one then OK but if everyone got week one then the paid sub doesnt start on that week. If D* was smart they would have made the free week on race 2 so that this argument couldn't have been brought up.


They do the same thing for every other extended sports package..
With maybe the exception of March Madness.

The first week, or two weeks are free to check it out.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Since this is a new offering I can't believe DTV wouldn't allow folks to cancel the subscription after the first race or two if they don't like it. Just from a customer service standpoint. Although Tony1097 really hits it on the head. False advertising.


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## AdamL2388 (Feb 19, 2007)

I believe Satelliteracer has said that there adding another feed on HotPass in two weeks with the Las Vegas race. There is only going to be audio, no announcers I think.


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## bonkthat (Feb 25, 2007)

Tony1097 said:


> "Ride Shotgun the whole race" "Hear everything me and Tony Jr said on the Radio" to me "Everything" and "Whole Race" includes during commercials


I don't think I could have stated it any clearer.

FALSE ADVERTISING

And "I guess they'll..."

...doesn't mean anything.


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## Dtv-dishlitehd (Dec 8, 2006)

Mrpalmer420 said:


> Also i don't understand why they wouldn't let peaple cancel after the first week since it was free for all D*. Technically then what you paid for is not the first week but for every race afterward. I subs got something more then everyone else during week one then OK but if everyone got week one then the paid sub doesnt start on that week. If D* was smart they would have made the free week on race 2 so that this argument couldn't have been brought up.


I was one of the lucky ones as I called midpoint through the Daytona 500 and asked to cancel the Hotpass and get fully refunded. I received my credit on saturday.

Sorry but there were lots of articles out there from the producers of Hotpass once it was official and all they ever talked about was how you could watch the whole race and listen to all of the driver-crew chief-spotter chatter. It only took me 2 hours to realise they lied completely and were in bed with the networks and not the fans. I can honestly say that if D* would refund people on the package that over 60% of the subscribers would have been lost if not more. I know at Jayski the disapproval rating on Hotpass has ranged between 80-90%. So you know with that support it has to be terrible.


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## bonkthat (Feb 25, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> What it ever stated that it would be commercial free?
> 
> Other then the issue I have seen about some people not having the right equipment, and that not being "explained" properly.
> 
> ...


I switched to DirectTV based on the commercial. I had the In-Car with Comcast, until David Hill decided it was a pot of gold untapped. I cancelled my subscription to Comcast (no one even notified me In-Car was no longer available) and ordered DirectTV directly after the Daytona 500. Since I did not have DirectTV at the time of the "free preview" I had to rely on the ads. I would never have signed up for Hot Pass if I knew you couldn't hear driver audio during cautions. 80% of what they say is at that time.

I called to cancel it after my first viewing of California. DirectTV told me I was stuck with it for this season. I WILL NOT renew next year....that's for sure.

I'll even root for Hot Pass to fail. I'll make sure I tell everyone not to subscribe to it. Then maybe...just maybe...David Hill will think about offering the original IN-Car....which is exactly what the "Nascar Experience" is.

Don't blame me. I'm just a consumer who wanted to pay a premium to see extra content. I did not pay to see commercials.

In that respect, Hot Pass is worse than Trackpass. At least they don't cut to commercials.


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## Dolly (Jan 30, 2007)

I'm not a huge NASCAR fan, but I did check out the Daytona 500 since it was free. I think if anyone got the ticket before the free preview and then after seeing the free preview, if they didn't like it they should be able to cancel. I mean how did anyone really know exactly what they were going to get until after the free preview? You can read what is said about what something is going to be like, but I don't think that is the same as actually viewing it for yourself. I know D has said they are going to make improvements. And all the newspaper stories I have Googled says it is a great success
now


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## Sharkie_Fan (Sep 26, 2006)

Tony1097 said:


> "Ride Shotgun the whole race"


The video feed remains active the whole race, does it not? The network feed with commercials just happens to be the bigger of the 3 screens. You "rode shotgun" the whole race.



Tony1097 said:


> "Hear everything me and Tony Jr said on the Radio"


You've got a point on this one... you certainly can't hear "everything" they said.

That said, I don't think you're argument will get you very far anywhere except in these forums. I would venture a guess that DirecTVs counter to your complaint would be that "a reasonble person would understand that TV programming includes commercials"

I feel what you're saying, but I just don't think you're going to get anywhere with your complaints, unfortunately.

I do have to say that it seems odd D* wouldn't have given more of a chance to try it out given that this is a brand new thing and nobody knows what they're getting into....


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

When I have been reading the comments on Hotpass...

It is like a flashback to when Sunday Ticket was first introduced.
The first year was not so good... 
And they simply just worked on improving it.

I can understand why some of you are upset... I really do.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Only suggestion I have, is that you keep trying to get it canceled.

As each week continues... it is going to get harder and harder and harder to cancel it.

My guess is after the Las Vegas race... (After they make some changes) that is going to be it, and you are going to have absolutely NO chance to get it refunded this year.


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## Mrpalmer420 (Jan 9, 2007)

I remember getting the hockey preview once but once i realised that i don't have enough time to follow my team plusall the other fantastic games then i decided not to go with it. If i remember correctly though it was not the first week of the season. The way i look at it is this: I pay $230 for sunday ticket. That is for 17 weeks af football coverage. If D* wanted to offer it free to all for one week then i feel that I am Paying for 16 weeks because the other would be free. Now if that is week one then i feel my paid subscription didn't start till week two, and i should still be able to cancel. If the free suday was week two then my paid sub starts week one and week two is a bonus week for all. i therefore cannot cancel.


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## mikewolf13 (Jan 31, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> Since this is a new offering I can't believe DTV wouldn't allow folks to cancel the subscription after the first race or two if they don't like it. Just from a customer service standpoint. Although Tony1097 really hits it on the head. False advertising.


Don't have it, but was wondering,

Is it possible that you can change the audio track you hear, like you can on the mix channels to continue hearing the radio as it goes to commercials?

my understanding is you get multi-boxes during commercial so you you still see race...i would think there would be a seperate audio feed to accomodate.

I think the ship has sailed on excusing feature/product releases based on how it was many years ago..

Tivo's launch does not excuse R15/HR20 launch
ST does not excuse HotPass
Pintos use to blow up, but I won't find that a valid excuse if my new car blows up.


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## Mrpalmer420 (Jan 9, 2007)

No that is the prblem a lot of people are having. I'm sorry i just don't undersand the last part of the post. No one is saying ST is excuing Hot Pass


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

I am using the example of "future" products, to just describe how things right out of the gate are sometimes rough... and it takes some time to get it improved.

They are two races in, and they are already planning to make some changes to it.

As for the audio track... in one of the other Nascar threads... they have already stated they are going to add another audio track.

(and yes, they can flip with the YELLOW button on the remote).
But the commercials kick in on all tracks when they come on.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I am using the example of "future" products, to just describe how things right out of the gate are sometimes rough... and it takes some time to get it improved.


As it should be. But if a customer wants out why not let them out this year and they can try again next year on the freeview? HotPass is in beta at this point. It's changing yet customers have paid for it.


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## bonkthat (Feb 25, 2007)

Sharkie_Fan said:


> The video feed remains active the whole race, does it not? The network feed with commercials just happens to be the bigger of the 3 screens. You "rode shotgun" the whole race.


The "video feed" defaults to the dedicated broadcast camera on that car. They do not show the in-car view during cautions.

The network *grows* from it's normal size to 75% of the screen during commercials.


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## bonkthat (Feb 25, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> But the commercials kick in on all tracks when they come on.


And therein lay the problem.

Nascar and DirectTV are touting the "Nascar Experience" as having in-car audio and video. But when a caution cuts out, they go to commercial. That's the bulk of driver audio there. Drivers are usually too busy driving the car to talk during the race. During a caution drivers blurt out everything about their car, "It's tight in on turn 3 and she's pushing through the center." "O.K...we'll do a half-round down, and drop a half-pound out of the right rear".

Therefore Hot Pass's "experience" consists of nothing more than hearing the spotter "Outside....outside....clear....clear" for four hours.


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## Tom_Oliver (Jan 4, 2007)

Yup, same here.

I think the reason a lot of people don't get our frustration is they never saw the In-Demand package. If you want to *really *experience what ridding along with a driver is like see the clip on 



. Warning, some bad language.

What DirecTV is providing is all fluff and no substance.



bonkthat said:


> I dropped my Comcast after finding out Nascar In-Car was no longer available. Then I signed up with DirectTV after seeing the Dale Jr. commercial touting Hot Pass.
> 
> What a crock. What are we paying for exactly? With 70% of driver communications blacked out in favor of commercials, I don't see how the Dale Jr. commercial isn't false advertising.
> 
> I've watched one race with Hot Pass, yet Direct TV won't refund even a portion of the entire season cost.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

bonkthat said:


> And therein lay the problem.
> 
> Nascar and DirectTV are touting the "Nascar Experience" as having in-car audio and video. But when a caution cuts out, they go to commercial. That's the bulk of driver audio there. Drivers are usually too busy driving the car to talk during the race. During a caution drivers blurt out everything about their car, "It's tight in on turn 3 and she's pushing through the center." "O.K...we'll do a half-round down, and drop a half-pound out of the right rear".
> 
> Therefore Hot Pass's "experience" consists of nothing more than hearing the spotter "Outside....outside....clear....clear" for four hours.


I have no idea why they would cut it out during Cautions..
Hopefully that will change when they add the other audio track..

As for the commercials..  
I don't think with any amount of complaining... that they are going anywhere.


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## Mrpalmer420 (Jan 9, 2007)

It is during the caution that network goes to commercial. Therein lies the problem


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## Dtv-dishlitehd (Dec 8, 2006)

Tom_Oliver said:


> Yup, same here.
> 
> I think the reason a lot of people don't get our frustration is they never saw the In-Demand package. If you want to *really *experience what ridding along with a driver is like see the clip on
> 
> ...


Views the youtube and sheds a tear. How could something so easy yet so perfect get so completely messed up on D*???

Oh yeah, they saw $$$$ in advertising and could care less about giving the fan what they actually are willing to pay for.

All I got to say is if any one on charge of hotpass would watch that clip they would have to hang their head in humiliation at the product they offer compared to that.


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## JeffBowser (Dec 21, 2006)

Without commercials, boys, you couldn't afford the costs of this stuff.


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## bonkthat (Feb 25, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I have no idea why they would cut it out during Cautions..
> Hopefully that will change when they add the other audio track..
> 
> As for the commercials..
> I don't think with any amount of complaining... that they are going anywhere.


I sincerely hope so. Having a dedicated driver audio during the commercials is the only thing that coould possibly save Hot Pass from self-destructing.

I know complaints don't go very far in your book, but could you recommend the appropriate group to lobby? It is Fox Sports?


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## loudo (Mar 24, 2005)

I have been a race fan for many years and am sure glad they gave us a free view of it before you had to put your bucks down. Watching just one driver takes away from the overall race, especially if you have HD to view the network broadcast with, and have to watch Hot Pass in SD. Glad I didn't buy it before I got to see the preview. 

Maybe in the future they may improve it, but for now I'll stick to the network HD telecast.


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## bonkthat (Feb 25, 2007)

JeffBowser said:


> Without commercials, boys, you couldn't afford the costs of this stuff.


I did for 4 years.

I don't think you understand. The golden product was there and paid for. They simply took it away.


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## racemanva (Nov 3, 2006)

loudo said:


> I have been a race fan for many years and am sure glad they gave us a free view of it before you had to put your bucks down. Watching just one driver takes away from the overall race, especially if you have HD to view the network broadcast with, and have to watch Hot Pass in SD. Glad I didn't buy it before I got to see the preview.
> 
> Maybe in the future they may improve it, but for now I'll stick to the network HD telecast.


Couldn't agree more loudo. Watching but 2 or 3 laps of Hotpass in SD was all I needed to switch back to the HD Network broadcast. Realized right off that "Hey, I'm missing out on 95% of the race and what all is going on" Glad we had the free preview, the Hotpass format may work for some folks but I'll take the network broadcast, DW and all.


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## bonkthat (Feb 25, 2007)

racemanva said:


> Couldn't agree more loudo. Watching but 2 or 3 laps of Hotpass in SD was all I needed to switch back to the HD Network broadcast. Realized right off that "Hey, I'm missing out on 95% of the race and what all is going on" Glad we had the free preview, the Hotpass format may work for some folks but I'll take the network broadcast, DW and all.


As a Nascar "junkie", I would agree the broadcast coverage is currently better than Hot Pass. That's why I want a refund.

There's one word to describe Hot Pass: Lame

This is what I was used to:

1) Broadcast on TV
2) Picture-In-Picture of Nascar In-Car (done at the TV level so I could use the TV speakers for the broadcast, and the In-Car on the surround sound)
3) I also had another, small TV with a dedicated IN-Car Channel
4) Finally, my laptop was logged into Trackpass

That's 4 video and 4 audio feeds coming from the race....on at the same time. If the phone rang, I'd lose it.

So you can imagine my disappointment in Hot Pass...


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## saleen351 (Mar 28, 2006)

Is it me or did the R15 design team design Hotpass. lol...


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I guess they should have promoted the free-view more, for the first week.


Actually, I just wish I had waited. I subbed before Daytona at the lower $79 price. Had I waited, I would have saved $79 instead of it costing me $20 more.:eek2:

OTOH, I fully expect someone to sue D* over this so at some point I will expect to see a $10 credit on my bill while the attorneys make $$$.


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

Sharkie_Fan said:


> I would venture a guess that DirecTVs counter to your complaint would be that "a reasonble person would understand that TV programming includes commercials"


The counter to that is I paid extra for it. Can you imagine how pi**ed people would be if HBO stuck a commercial in the middle of a movie? Yet people expect it if the same movie is showing on TNT.


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## loudo (Mar 24, 2005)

Herdfan said:


> The counter to that is I paid extra for it. Can you imagine how pi**ed people would be if HBO stuck a commercial in the middle of a movie? Yet people expect it if the same movie is showing on TNT.


I don't understand why people thought there would NOT be commercials. Center Ice, NBA package, and ST, are all extra pay sports packages and they all have commercials.


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## luckydob (Oct 2, 2006)

loudo said:


> I don't understand why people thought there would NOT be commercials. Center Ice, NBA package, and ST, are all extra pay sports packages and they all have commercials.


Part of the problem is that when crews communicate the most...i.e. crashes - the networks take a commercial. I think the biggest issues is that we are paying for the feeds from the drivers only to miss most of them and then have announcers blab over the crews when they do talk. Good Idea...poor execution.


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## bonkthat (Feb 25, 2007)

loudo said:


> I don't understand why people thought there would NOT be commercials. Center Ice, NBA package, and ST, are all extra pay sports packages and they all have commercials.


They also have timeouts where there's no action.

Also, the previous product in the market kicked ass. No one expected them to ruin it.


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## sonofjay (Aug 30, 2006)

Tom_Oliver said:


> Yup, same here.
> 
> I think the reason a lot of people don't get our frustration is they never saw the In-Demand package. If you want to *really *experience what ridding along with a driver is like see the clip on
> 
> ...


Holy ****! I'm not a fan of NASCAR but that is night and day to what DirecTV offered during their freeview.

I can totally see why you fans are pissed!


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

loudo said:


> I don't understand why people thought there would NOT be commercials. Center Ice, NBA package, and ST, are all extra pay sports packages and they all have commercials.


The big difference here is that they are out-of-market packages and as a general rule while commercials are on, there is no game play. So there is no action to watch during commercials, so you are not missing anything.


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## loudo (Mar 24, 2005)

Herdfan said:


> The big difference here is that they are out-of-market packages and as a general rule while commercials are on, there is no game play. So there is no action to watch during commercials, so you are not missing anything.


If they take out the commercials they will probably have to up the price of it, to make up the difference.


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## Tony1097 (Apr 26, 2006)

another interesting detail I don't think anyone has brought up as far as IN-Car Vs Hotpass debate goes.. In-Car gave you 6 drivers (7 in one of their seasons.. maybe 2), HP only gives you 5.


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## Dolly (Jan 30, 2007)

I don't care for Hot Pass, but it is nice to see a Herd Fan and a Jeff Gordon Fan in this thread :hi: Jeff is the only reason I watch any Nascar at all. I wish I would have known about him earlier in his career  And GOOOOOOOO Herd :heart:


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

loudo said:


> I don't understand why people thought there would NOT be commercials. Center Ice, NBA package, and ST, are all extra pay sports packages and they all have commercials.


Because with the packages you mentioned you are paying extra for out of area games. Games you normally wouldn't have access to. With Hot Pass everyone already has access to the race, what you're paying for there is the expanded coverage....which from their ads indicated you could watch/hear the entire race.


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## bdowell (Mar 4, 2003)

Having the video for the commercials isn't a problem. Having the commercials become the audio focus is a big problem.

As others have noted above, NASCAR fans pay for the package to get the communication between driver and pit crew. 99% of which happens during cautions, which is when 99% of commercials are aired.

Something has to give.

Personally I'm in the camp that this was falsely advertised. It isn't what was promoted and those that prepaid for it were screwed.

I fully expect some legal eagle is gonna sue DirecTV over the package and everyone that got stuck with the package and not allowed to cancel it will get some lame coupon for their troubles -- everyone except the lawyers that will get the millions that were paid into DirecTV for the package to begin with.


Someone above comments that "we can't afford" the package as we want it. That's complete crap. You can have the package you want for the most part just by going to NASCAR.com and signing up for one of their various packages provided via the internet. Any of those packages is better than Hotpass.


It was also suggested that these complaints need to be sent to NASCAR so they get the idea that this package is gonna die quickly. That's probably true. Whether it would do any real good is debatable, but they do need to hear that their partnership with DirecTV is reflecting poorly on them and their partner.


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## Dolly (Jan 30, 2007)

Yes with Hot Pass I knew after I first saw it that I didn't want it. But what I didn't like about it was all the split screens didn't give a good view of the whole race. But if I were any of you that purchased it before the Daytona 500 preview I would keep after D to give me my money back. You really needed to see the preview BEFORE you paid your money.


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## Tom_Oliver (Jan 4, 2007)

Pretty cool huh? I posted this clip into our sim racing group when they were *****ing about how boring the racing was in that same race. I told them the races aren't boring, you just don't see any of it anymore because of fluff pieces and way, way, way too many commercials. When most of that action happened they were either away at commercial, providing some summary, or following the leader around by himself.

All the networks have time for is to tell you whatever you missed from the last break, and then they go off to break again. They also insist on showing green flag pit stops, for some reason, so they'll go to break just before the stop. Then they'll come back and cover the stops and then go to break again, providing there wasn't a caution while they were gone the first time (which is about 50/50.) Meanwhile, they are missing ALL of the good racing. Typically it is the best racing of the whole day, unless there is a shootout at the end.

If you are lucky, they show you the replay of a pass or two while they were away, but NASCAR racing isn't about the actual act of passing. It's about many laps of setting up a pass or battling for a single position, or the anticipation something is going to happen, like a wreck. That's what keeps you on the edge of your seat, or on your feet in the stands. The battle at the end of this clip went on forever between Harvick and Busch. I only captured a small piece of it. It actually started with Busch blocking Harvick, and then Harvick got pissed and ran into the back of him, which is where the clip picks up.

That's NASCAR! It's just a real shame most people don't see it anymore on TV, and I guess I won't be anymore either.



sonofjay said:


> Holy ****! I'm not a fan of NASCAR but that is night and day to what DirecTV offered during their freeview.
> 
> I can totally see why you fans are pissed!


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## bonkthat (Feb 25, 2007)

I understand advertisers need to recoup their money. But isn't there a price per person assigned? In other words, if Fox Sports says to their advertisers "Hey, 5 million people watched the race last week, therefore we're going to charge you 50 cents per person to advertise.

But there's 250,000 people who didn't see the commercials because of a (hopefully), new and improved Hot Pass.

*Why can't Fox Sports charge us for the lost advertising revenue? I'd pay $150 or even $200 for the old In-Car*


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## Mrpalmer420 (Jan 9, 2007)

Not to pile on here but what the hell it sucked. When i tried to get away from Tony stewart audio(i couldn't listen to those announcers any more about his fav food/movie/race) the fox audio was very low i had to crank my volume up to 25 just to hear anything.


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## Dtv-dishlitehd (Dec 8, 2006)

loudo said:


> I don't understand why people thought there would NOT be commercials. Center Ice, NBA package, and ST, are all extra pay sports packages and they all have commercials.


That is because there is a break in the action!!! They do not stop racing and throw a red flag just to go to commercials!!! This product never had commercials and sorry but D* was selling this product to people as no commercials and pulled the rug from underneath people once they were signed up.


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

There is probably a contract between D* and the networks that commercials have to be shown, just as they are with Sunday Ticket. As someone pointed out, the commercials are shown at times the drivers do most of the talking.

Yes, a reasonable person might know that commercials will be shown. But a reasonable provider would issue refunds to dissatisfied customers this early in a new endeavor.


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

Just a reminder for those who paid: Call D* and remove yourself from the Automatic renewal so that you don't get stuck with it again next year. All D* sports package auto-renew.

If enough people call and remove it for NEXT year, they may get the idea.


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## bonkthat (Feb 25, 2007)

Herdfan said:


> Just a reminder for those who paid: Call D* and remove yourself from the Automatic renewal so that you don't get stuck with it again next year. All D* sports package auto-renew.
> 
> If enough people call and remove it for NEXT year, they may get the idea.


Thanks for the info. 
I'm going to see what changes they make in Vegas. 
I'll give D* one opportunity to rework their contract.


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## mikewolf13 (Jan 31, 2006)

Mrpalmer420 said:


> No that is the prblem a lot of people are having. I'm sorry i just don't undersand the last part of the post. No one is saying ST is excuing Hot Pass


Earl said: _It is like a flashback to when Sunday Ticket was first introduced.
The first year was not so good... 
And they simply just worked on improving it._

That is what I was referring to (that and all the "Tivo had bugs too when it launched.." posts in other threads.

I took that to mean ST had issues, not it is very good, so don't worry HotPass will get better.....


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## Satelliteracer (Dec 6, 2006)

bonkthat said:


> Thanks for the info.
> I'm going to see what changes they make in Vegas.
> I'll give D* one opportunity to rework their contract.


We've already added significant features based on the comments here and elsewhere. Commercials are NOT going away, that is mandatory per NASCAR and the networks in the agreements. As I explained prior, In-Demand's In Car product did not run commercials because the clause in their contract essentially never kicked (in short, they had very few subscribers for the product).

I just started another thread on this but the new audio channel will kick in on March 11th allowing you to listen to just the chatter on the radio communications. We heard your concerns and we are acting on them.

We are also going to HD for next season.

Thirdly, customers can begin voting for the 5th driver on March 11th for a number of races this year.

There are other considerations in the works now as well. We thank you for your continued comments. We're in this for the long haul. The response from the NASCAR drivers and teams has been fantastic. We will see you in Vegas.

PS I would like to clarify the commercials question one more time if I may. If you're watching the race on Fox (or later this year on ESPN, ABC or TNT) they go to commercials and you are completely separated from the race for 2 or 3 minutes. We do not do that. We NEVER completely cut to commercials, always having the race on in the lower left hand corner. It may be a fine line, but we never take you away from the action during the race.


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## Mrpalmer420 (Jan 9, 2007)

Hi satraer. i understand that this is a large venture and am not expecting the same thing as the in demand car feature but my only problem is that most of the driver team communication happens in cautions and this is when the network goes to commercial. i mean it is nice hearing the clear right clear right of the spotter but us gearheads like hearing the tech speak like loose in the corner and other things like this. this is why we are complaining about the commercials. i also understand that it is part of the contract. i don't know what can be done about this but right now it seems like nothing and i know that is not your or whoever you work fors fault.


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## Satelliteracer (Dec 6, 2006)

Mrpalmer420 said:


> Hi satraer. i understand that this is a large venture and am not expecting the same thing as the in demand car feature but my only problem is that most of the driver team communication happens in cautions and this is when the network goes to commercial. i mean it is nice hearing the clear right clear right of the spotter but us gearheads like hearing the tech speak like loose in the corner and other things like this. this is why we are complaining about the commercials. i also understand that it is part of the contract. i don't know what can be done about this but right now it seems like nothing and i know that is not your or whoever you work fors fault.


Mr. Palmer, understood. People are working on that right now...stay tuned.


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## Tom_Oliver (Jan 4, 2007)

Hmm, good luck! It would also help if the screen you keep while on break was larger. I have a huge TV, but I can't hardly see anything in that little window. I think this post was made in humor, but it's not that far off:



tucker301 said:


> Commercial Time


I also swear the commercial audio is cranked up, which is really annoying.

I'll never be 100 percent happy with any commercials, but I could maybe live with it if the screen was 50/50 or better for the race feed, and we could hear the communications/cars without the commercial audio.



Satelliteracer said:


> Mr. Palmer, understood. People are working on that right now...stay tuned.


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## HD-holdout (Feb 13, 2007)

Why don't they just turn on the closed captioning in the commercial window, instead of having the commercials sound tract. 


This would still allow the message of the commercial to get through, but the pit crew sound track during cautions would be heard, which is what most of us want.


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## Dolly (Jan 30, 2007)

paulman182 said:


> There is probably a contract between D* and the networks that commercials have to be shown, just as they are with Sunday Ticket. As someone pointed out, the commercials are shown at times the drivers do most of the talking.
> 
> Yes, a reasonable person might know that commercials will be shown. But a reasonable provider would issue refunds to dissatisfied customers this early in a new endeavor.


I agree especially for the customers who got the Ticket before the preview of the Daytona 500 :yesman:


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## bonkthat (Feb 25, 2007)

Satelliteracer said:


> We've already added significant features based on the comments here and elsewhere. Commercials are NOT going away, that is mandatory per NASCAR and the networks in the agreements. As I explained prior, In-Demand's In Car product did not run commercials because the clause in their contract essentially never kicked (in short, they had very few subscribers for the product).


I think a fair medium would be to keep the broadcast in view but let us have the team audio during commercials. I think that's the make or break point for this product. If the broadcasters looked at this from a realistic perspective, they'd know we've already seen most of the commercials, so there's not need for repeat audio. I think they're forgetting why they wanted to advertise in a Nascar medium in the first place. Nascar fans are 3 times more likely to but their product. I think that's an exception when comparing to other sports packages.

I also think D* has an opportunity to make some money off of people like me. They should offer the original In-Car package for the gurus (as an alternative to HP), at a high enough price that keeps them under the 250k subscriber cap....or whatever the benchmark is that gets the broadcasters' panties in a wad. All they have to do is keep jacking the price so they stay under the bar. Since they already have most of the infrastructure in place (paid for by the HP agreements), it would be quite profitable. At the worst, they'd have to kick back some more dough to the broadcasters.


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## tommyb (Aug 18, 2006)

I am pretty certain that you are not going to be able to bypass the commercials based on the fact that the networks cameras are being used and the networks have the rights to those feeds. There would be many unhappy corporations who pay the network for valuable commercial time that somebody could bypass simply by paying a small fee. Commercials are part of all of the sport packages, as the packages come from network feeds. The thought never crossed my mind that Hot Pass would be commercial free. They are working on the package and I am fairly certain when all the kinks are worked out, a very large percentage of the subscribers will be very happy. This is the age old old problem of people adopting new technology and not being patient for the bugs to be worked out. I also agree with Earl, keep trying to get it cancelled and they will cancel it. I know of a couple people that were able to cancel Sunday Ticket 4 weeks into the season,and that is a far bigger loss t D* than Hot Pass. Be persistent but patient and you will get it cancelled, or be patient and wait it out.


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## steveymac (Nov 30, 2004)

even the directv.com website states there will be commercials... i don't get the problem, i enjoy hotpass... it supplements the Nascar.com Trackpass with RaceView i have.....
the only thing missing is Sirius's coverage..


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## Dolly (Jan 30, 2007)

Well since this was all new I still think D should give refunds. At least to all the people that got the ticket before the Daytona 500 Preview.


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## kateco (Feb 19, 2007)

bonkthat said:


> I also think D* has an opportunity to make some money off of people like me. They should offer the original In-Car package for the gurus (as an alternative to HP), at a high enough price that keeps them under the 250k subscriber cap....or whatever the benchmark is that gets the broadcasters' panties in a wad. All they have to do is keep jacking the price so they stay under the bar. Since they already have most of the infrastructure in place (paid for by the HP agreements), it would be quite profitable. At the worst, they'd have to kick back some more dough to the broadcasters.


Wow, choice! What an idea! Personally, I'd pay at least double to get commercial-free, single-screen, in-car start-to-finish back again. Especially after 2 races of awful new HotPass... something for everyone. Hear us, programmers? We'll give you even MORE money if you give us what we REALLY want.


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## Tom_Oliver (Jan 4, 2007)

+1

I don't see it ever happening tho.



kateco said:


> Wow, choice! What an idea! Personally, I'd pay at least double to get commercial-free, single-screen, in-car start-to-finish back again. Especially after 2 races of awful new HotPass... something for everyone. Hear us, programmers? We'll give you even MORE money if you give us what we REALLY want.


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## Tom_Oliver (Jan 4, 2007)

So what was this then? 




Please don't come here and say something is impossible, when we had it for the last four years. It may well be impossible because DirecTV signed a horrible contract and guaranteed commercials, but it is certainly not impossible.

Reminds me of the huge arguments I had in the AVSForum, with so called experts, who claimed NASCAR would never be in HD because it was too complicated. One year later we had HD races.



tommyb said:


> I am pretty certain that you are not going to be able to bypass the commercials based on the fact that the networks cameras are being used and the networks have the rights to those feeds. There would be many unhappy corporations who pay the network for valuable commercial time that somebody could bypass simply by paying a small fee. Commercials are part of all of the sport packages, as the packages come from network feeds.


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## luckydob (Oct 2, 2006)

Can we please get over this already? You are NOT getting a refund. If you don't like it, then don't get it next year. Simple. Very Simple. It's not really that much money and the way that people always say how they get programming credits and such I can't believe all the complaining. Just don't get it next year. Move to Dish or Comcast...whatever.

This supplements the Fox broadcast...and it does a good job. Just wish Gordon would be on sooner or later...but I digress. 

GET OVER IT. COMMERCIALS ARE HERE TO STAY. WHY CAN YOU NOT COMPREHEND THIS??????

Blah.


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## bdowell (Mar 4, 2003)

luckydob said:


> Can we please get over this already? You are NOT getting a refund. If you don't like it, then don't get it next year. Simple. Very Simple. It's not really that much money and the way that people always say how they get programming credits and such I can't believe all the complaining. Just don't get it next year. Move to Dish or Comcast...whatever.
> 
> This supplements the Fox broadcast...and it does a good job. Just wish Gordon would be on sooner or later...but I digress.
> 
> ...


We can't comprehend it for the same reasons you can't comprehend that #24 is a whiney little cry baby :lol:


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## Badger (Jan 31, 2006)

bdowell said:


> We can't comprehend it for the same reasons you can't comprehend that #24 is a whiney little cry baby :lol:


Now that's an intelligent reply!


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## Fast Freddie (Mar 4, 2007)

I thought I'd toss in my 2 cents about the commercials and Hot Pass.

I almost purchased HP early for the lower price but decided to wait and check out the free preview, and I'm glad I did.

The in-car camera is attractive, but for me the biggest draw was the audio. Team communication. 

The main reason, as others point out, is the amount of information exchanged under caution. 

Why should NASCAR be different than football and other sports, besides the non-stop action? 

Because you can't look anywhere during a race without already seeing a commercial. The race itself is 43 moving billboards, going around a track littered with ads, driven by drivers and supported by teams who all wear uniforms covered by some products they are trying to pawn. Even the in-car views and suspension/tire/brake cams have product stickers. 

In short, it's commercial overload. Enough already. If I pay extra for content from the track, I expect...no, I demand that it be commercial free. I will NOT pay extra for more unavoidable commercials.

My solution? Trackpass Scanner for $30 and my Mute button. I get 40 drivers to choose from online, plus the free HD network signal. I mute the commercials.

I'll pay for the right product. Maybe it will be HP next year, maybe not. :scratchin


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## Tom_Oliver (Jan 4, 2007)

This kind of response is exactly why we are constantly bombarded with commercials everywhere we turn. The broadcasters have convinced people it's perfectly acceptable and just the way it is, but it will only change when people step up and say enough is enough.

Eventually NASCAR will get that is the reason their ratings and attendance are in a freefall, when they've ran out of other excuses.



luckydob said:


> Can we please get over this already? You are NOT getting a refund. If you don't like it, then don't get it next year. Simple. Very Simple. It's not really that much money and the way that people always say how they get programming credits and such I can't believe all the complaining. Just don't get it next year. Move to Dish or Comcast...whatever.
> 
> This supplements the Fox broadcast...and it does a good job. Just wish Gordon would be on sooner or later...but I digress.
> 
> ...


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## Tom_Oliver (Jan 4, 2007)

Hey, we might at least catch a break when TNT takes over:

• TNT looking at no commercial breaks in 2007? UPDATE 3 Pepsi 400..but: Sports Business Journal reports that TNT is floating a package to potential advertisers that would allow advertising during the race broadcast and eliminate commercial breaks. The advertising would take place on the screen during the broadcast and allow continuous race coverage. TNT will broadcast six Nextel Cup races next summer. The story reports that officials from Turner and NASCAR would not comment. The story also reported that TNT's Cup ratings are down 8.3% from last season.(Roanoke Times)(10-18-2006)

UPDATE: hearing that the Pepsi 400 at Daytona will be shown with no commercials by TNT [in primetime] and the coverage will be sponsored by...Pepsi, but the other five races, as of now, will be shown with commercial breaks.(1-4-2007)

UPDATE 2: TNT, for the prime-time July 7 Pepsi 400, wants to add some wrinkles. Trish Frohman, TNT executive vice president, hopes to enlist 12 advertisers - she says Pepsi, DirecTV and pain reliever 360 OTC are in - to air commercials, running up to two minutes, in about a quarter of the TV screen as race shots continue. Correction. Those "won't be commercials," says Frohman, but rather "branded content" that's "organic to the environment." Meaning, she says, that TNT's production staffers will work with advertisers to make ads - er, "content" - specifically for the race. TNT announcers, she says, will "absolutely" be "as engaged as anybody" in the effort. Which shouldn't surprise anybody. TV networks, paying millions or even billions for big-time TV rights, already seem like ad agencies for sports they cover. While Pepsi 400 coverage will still include local cable ads beyond TNT's purview, Frohman says the total time devoted to marketing messages will be less than normal NASCAR coverage.(USA Today)(1-12-2007)

UPDATE 3: TNT officials say the cable network will televise the July 7 Pepsi 400 NASCAR Nextel Cup race without commercials, but that doesn't mean the telecast will be ad free. The network will put advertising on the screen while the race is happening, but it won't announce specifics until a later date, said TNT executive producer Jeff Behnke. Behnke was hesitant to talk much about it during a teleconference Wednesday to announce the hiring of veteran driver Kyle Petty as an analyst for its race coverage.(SceneDaily.com)(2-8-2007)

Pasted from <http://www.jayski.com/pages/media.htm>


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## Tony1097 (Apr 26, 2006)

I am getting a touch of no commercial racing in the Busch race right now! ESPN has the race in Spanish, ESPN2 has the race in English, there is always at least one of the stations with the race on! I just flip it over to ESPN when ESPN2 goes on break.


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## lewah33 (Nov 2, 2006)

bonkthat said:


> I dropped my Comcast after finding out Nascar In-Car was no longer available. Then I signed up with DirectTV after seeing the Dale Jr. commercial touting Hot Pass.
> 
> What a crock. What are we paying for exactly? With 70% of driver communications blacked out in favor of commercials, I don't see how the Dale Jr. commercial isn't false advertising.
> 
> I've watched one race with Hot Pass, yet Direct TV won't refund even a portion of the entire season cost.


I would ask how many CSRs did you talk to? Did you threaten to cancel? The more you pay directv each month, the more the retention ppl are motivated to solve your issue. You are a new subscriber, and it cost D* money to get you as their customer.

So, call customer service again, be nice, be patient, and after explaining your problem to the CS agent (who likely won't be able to help), say, thank you, and that you want to cancel your account. They will transfer you to retention, and go through your complaints all over again. Be nice, be polite, but firmly state your frustration - and tell the retention person you want to cancel your account.

Hopefully, they will give you some cash or credit to make you happy.


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## Newshawk (Sep 3, 2004)

You know, you should just cool it and let the people who are producing Hot Pass refine the presentation. I think if you stop whining and give them a break, you'll see improvements as early as next Sunday. Haven't you seen this thread? http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=81290


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## qnzryk (Jun 3, 2008)

I'm not sure what is going on here. I have read several of the replys regarding hotpass. I have had it since it's inception. Other than a few screwups with the car number and driver, like last week Tony Stewart was marked as 18! I have had no problems. My husband listens to Mark Martin on the sound only channel and he says he get the hotpass comments, drivers team communications and yes the commercials.

I choose a specific driver to watch, so on commercials I just switch to the team communications. That way I can hear what is going on during the commercials, including cautions. I think this is a user issue at this point. If you had hotpass last year they did change some of the controls, but I just played with it until I found what worked for me. Over all I am very pleased with what I get for my money.

I have one complaint, do the people of Jr. Nation pay the same amount of money for hotpass that I do. They get to watch their driver every week. I have to wait for Tony Stewart, which amounts to about 4 or 5 races a season. Does that seem fair?



bonkthat said:


> I dropped my Comcast after finding out Nascar In-Car was no longer available. Then I signed up with DirectTV after seeing the Dale Jr. commercial touting Hot Pass.
> 
> What a crock. What are we paying for exactly? With 70% of driver communications blacked out in favor of commercials, I don't see how the Dale Jr. commercial isn't false advertising.
> 
> I've watched one race with Hot Pass, yet Direct TV won't refund even a portion of the entire season cost.


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## jimb726 (Jan 9, 2007)

qnzryk said:


> I'm not sure what is going on here. I have read several of the replys regarding hotpass. I have had it since it's inception. Other than a few screwups with the car number and driver, like last week Tony Stewart was marked as 18! I have had no problems. My husband listens to Mark Martin on the sound only channel and he says he get the hotpass comments, drivers team communications and yes the commercials.
> 
> I choose a specific driver to watch, so on commercials I just switch to the team communications. That way I can hear what is going on during the commercials, including cautions. I think this is a user issue at this point. If you had hotpass last year they did change some of the controls, but I just played with it until I found what worked for me. Over all I am very pleased with what I get for my money.
> 
> I have one complaint, do the people of Jr. Nation pay the same amount of money for hotpass that I do. They get to watch their driver every week. I have to wait for Tony Stewart, which amounts to about 4 or 5 races a season. Does that seem fair?


Unfortunately for you, since JR is the most popular driver on the planet, he is going to be on the Hot Pass every week simply because he has more fans willing to pony up the cash for the package.


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## Tom_Oliver (Jan 4, 2007)

This thread is over a year old. What you are seeing now is not what we were commenting on.



qnzryk said:


> I'm not sure what is going on here.


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## man_rob (Feb 21, 2007)

If you feel you have been misled, try filing a complaint with the Better Business Bureau.

https://odr.bbb.org/odrweb/public/GetStarted.aspx


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## bjlc (Aug 20, 2004)

directv consistently false advertises their sports programing. 

what I cannot fathom, is that posters here DEFEND this action. They out and out LIE and then when you don't get what is promised, posters here rise to defend D* to the hilt. Unbelievable.


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## JeffBowser (Dec 21, 2006)

I don't know if it is so much defending DirecTV as it is questioning if you truly understood what was being offered. Folks have a way of forgetting to read the print - commercials are not the full story, for any company. Just because you don't like how something was implemented doesn't mean you were lied to - I see this everyday in my business, people call me all puffed up over some perceived issue, and it turns out it was all in their head. Take a case from just this morning - he called me ranting and raving that my software wasn't connecting. Turns out his students were pulling the ethernet cable out of the PCs. He wanted a refund because I advertise that we block students from doing bad things to their computers. He failed to see software cannot stop physical actions, so blinded was he by his self-righteous rage.



bjlc said:


> directv consistently false advertises their sports programing.
> 
> what I cannot fathom, is that posters here DEFEND this action. They out and out LIE and then when you don't get what is promised, posters here rise to defend D* to the hilt. Unbelievable.


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

Tom_Oliver said:


> This thread is over a year old. What you are seeing now is not what we were commenting on.


A noob dragging up an OLD post. Move along here folks....nothing to see.


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## highheater (Aug 30, 2006)

Herdfan said:


> A noob dragging up an OLD post. Move along here folks....nothing to see.


I don't know. Would I have been surprised to see commercials on MLB mix channel instead of game audio? How about advertising inserted into the programming guide? There really are no limits to what Direct TV can choose to do. They can modify their end of the deal any time they choose. And people who question it, get the company line from defenders of the faith here. The amazing thing is that some would actually take that as a compliment.


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## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

Herdfan said:


> A noob dragging up an OLD post. Move along here folks....nothing to see.


Sir, I admire your attempt (you beat me to it, actually)!

The problem is, as much as people rail about people defending DirecTV on this site, there are also people who will take the opportunity to resoundingly voice their displeasure with DirecTV - even if it means mounting that soapbox on year old material that likely doesn't even apply today. :nono2: :nono2: :nono2:


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## upnorth (Jun 21, 2006)

Herdfan said:


> A noob dragging up an OLD post. Move along here folks....nothing to see.


So what's the problem she obviously seen something that was of interest to her and posted an opinion and a question.
I thought thats what this forum was all about.
If they do not want users to reply to old posts they should close them at least her post was on topic unlike yours.


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## highheater (Aug 30, 2006)

JLucPicard said:


> Sir, I admire your attempt (you beat me to it, actually)!
> 
> The problem is, as much as people rail about people defending DirecTV on this site, there are also people who will take the opportunity to resoundingly voice their displeasure with DirecTV - even if it means mounting that soapbox on year old material that likely doesn't even apply today. :nono2: :nono2: :nono2:


Believe me there is enough to rail about given the current level of service we don't need to look for one year old problems. Look at the top of this thread.

The real issue is how the same problems recur in slightly different forms.

Unexpected advertising on hot pass last year.

New advertising on guide today.

Commercial audio on MLB game mix tomorrow?


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

highheater said:


> Believe me there is enough to rail about given the current level of service we don't need to look for one year old problems. Look at the top of this thread.


Exactly. Last year it was them placing commerials on during pit stops making sure you didn't hear the conversation between driver and crew chief.

This year they are inserting long periods of silence that accomplish the same thing.:lol:


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## Inches (Jan 5, 2005)

I change the audio when riding to just crew audio. No talking heads and no commercial audio, just driver and crew.


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## TigersFanJJ (Feb 17, 2006)

Inches said:


> I change the audio when riding to just crew audio. No talking heads and no commercial audio, just driver and crew.


Except when they decide to do what is quoted below. Then you get nothing.



Herdfan said:


> This year they are inserting long periods of silence that accomplish the same thing.:lol:


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