# HR10-250 have a weak OTA tuner?



## buzzdalf (Jan 27, 2003)

Ever since I hooked up my HR10-250 I have been having issues with the reception on a couple of channels. My OTA ABC channel pixelates constantly, and the receiver totally loses my local CBS channel all together sometimes.
I've been receiving OTA HD via a HTPC for almost a year now with good signal strength and no issues. Also, our ATSC tuner in the TV itself registers good signal quality on both channels and never loses the signal or suffers from the pixelation issues.
Does anyone out there use the OTA tuners in their HD Tivo's? Does this receiver have a weak tuner or something?

I've been training the wife to use the integrated solution and watch everything through the HR10-250 so we can DVR it, but this issue is killing me.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Yes...

The Tuner isn't "weak" is just VERY VERY VERY picky.

For example: 
CBS in Chicago is via VHF-3... If my son's computer is "plugged in" (it can be off, but just simply plugged in), I can't tune in the network.
Pull the plug... boom I get a perfect steady signal.

If I use my H20 receiver, doesn't matter if I have ever computer in the house plugged in and turned on... works perfectly

The OTA tuners in the HR10-250... are just VERY VERY picky


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## dan8379 (Feb 13, 2006)

I've got a Winegard antenna on the roof going directly into my HR10-250. I can't get my CBS affiliate at all, but with a simple pair of rabbit ears plugged directly into my Samsung DLP I get perfect reception on that same channel. Nice that I have a secondary option, but it stinks because I can't record CBS. Oh well, just waiting for the new mpeg-4 DVR anyway....


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## malachai24 (Jun 27, 2006)

I am having the pixelation issue with the HR10-250 also. Just had the OTA antenna installed this weekend, and the signal strength is very good (80-95) but occasionally it gets wacked out. 

Using the tuner built into the TV does not result in any pixelation.

Any ideas on fixing this issue? I saw one recommendation to wire the tuners in the HR10-250 directly, bypassing the input on the HR10-250, and another that recommended weakening the signal (I assume this means splitting it) before using the input on the HR10-250.

Really hope someone has an answer to fix this problem. Thanks.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

There is no way to fix it...

It is the nature of the tuners in the HR10-250.
They by far are one of the most "picky" tuners out there in HD land right now.

You can try to post over at www.tivocommunity.com to see if maybe they have some ideas to try.


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## tzphotos.com (Jul 12, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Yes...
> 
> The Tuner isn't "weak" is just VERY VERY VERY picky.
> 
> ...


Earl,

I used to have an issue with WBBM also. I found out it was because of a bad coax cable letting noise into the signal, which the low VHF-3 signals is sensitive.

I replaced the bad cable and have had no more problems.

So, check your connectors that they have a good compression (or crimp).


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Thank you for the suggestion....

The connections are good through out the house... Even in an attempt to narrow it down, I ran a new wire from the antenna directly to the HR10-250... same results.

Son's computer plugged in... no good
Son's computer un-plugged... good as gold.

I don't worry about it so much any more, as I currently get the CBS-NY feed, and I do have the H20 so I get the MPEG4 locals now...

When the HR20 is release, the HR10-250's days are numbered.


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## thumperr (Feb 10, 2006)

I believe the issue with the tuners in the hr10-250 is that it doesn’t filter out multipath as well as the other tuners mentioned. I believe it has to due with the generation of the tuners. Most newer ATSC tuners have newer chip sets for dealing with multipath. My scenario sounds similar to everyone else’s, the TV tuner works well no pixilation, my h20 worked well also. The HR10 though breaks up occasionally. 

I upgraded my antenna to a DB8 to be able to reliably get the DC channels on the HR10. With the TV I can point my DB8 between DC and Baltimore and get all the channels. With the HR10 none work. If I point the DB8 at DC they work fine. My antenna is in the attic and I’m about 30 miles to DC and Baltimore towers. I’ve bought the Antenna’s direct Lacrosse to try out, but need to wait till it gets cooler outside.


Malachai24, the issue you describe with the signal meter bouncing high to low generally indicates a problem with multipath. When you hear weakening the signal, what is meant is to install an attenuator, not splitting. Though splitting does decrease the strength of the signal but not the same way. You generally only need an attenuator if you live really close to the transmission tower.

There is a lot of good info on AVSforum.com under the HD hardware reception area. I believe I’ve learned more about antennas in the last 6 months than I ever wanted to. Lots of help full information.


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## buzzdalf (Jan 27, 2003)

OK, so if the issue is multipath, maybe I've been going about this the wrong way.
I, too, have a DB8. Since I've been having issues with the pixelation and dropouts I started amplifying the signal to compensate. First I put in a distribution amp by the receiver. Then, after still having issues I bought a mast pre-amp from antennas direct and added that.
Now I can pick up Detroit without issue, hehe, but I still have problems with the main station we like out of Toledo!
Maybe I should take all the amps out and see what happens.


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## thumperr (Feb 10, 2006)

That is not a bad idea to remove the amps. hopefully you should be able to do this from inside the house. you don't need to remove the mast amp, just the power supply inside.

how far are you from the toledo and detriot stations. from antennaweb it looks like it could be 25miles and 80 miles respectively. that is from just using the 43420 zip code. that is pretty impressive that you can get detriot. it also appears that toledo is at about 330 degrees and detriot is at about 78 degrees. that is what 108 degrees of seperation. have you tried pointing about 24 degrees, splitting the difference. this is what i always get confused with and the DB8 and that is the beam width of the antenna. for me DC and Baltimore are about 75 degrees apart, but with the DB8 in the attic i can't pull it off, i have to point directly at the towers. this is why i'm going to try the lacrosse to see how it works outside.

you may want to look at AVSforum under the local HDTV reception area and see if there is a group for your general area. someone there may live in you vicinity and that would be more helpful to you.


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## Marvin (Sep 14, 2003)

My only issue is a vibrating picture on my UPN which is an SD subchannel. It is otherwise fine on my tvs built in tuner. I say vibrating..its the best way to describe the issue. If for instance you look at the logo on the bottom of the screen, its always moving, really quickly and not very much. The rest of the screen is as well and it causes a blurring/stuttering effect. I wonder what will happen when the UPN channel becomes Fox and goes HD..


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## buzzdalf (Jan 27, 2003)

thumperr said:


> That is not a bad idea to remove the amps. hopefully you should be able to do this from inside the house. you don't need to remove the mast amp, just the power supply inside.
> 
> how far are you from the toledo and detriot stations. from antennaweb it looks like it could be 25miles and 80 miles respectively. that is from just using the 43420 zip code. that is pretty impressive that you can get detriot. it also appears that toledo is at about 330 degrees and detriot is at about 78 degrees. that is what 108 degrees of seperation. have you tried pointing about 24 degrees, splitting the difference. this is what i always get confused with and the DB8 and that is the beam width of the antenna. for me DC and Baltimore are about 75 degrees apart, but with the DB8 in the attic i can't pull it off, i have to point directly at the towers. this is why i'm going to try the lacrosse to see how it works outside.
> 
> you may want to look at AVSforum under the local HDTV reception area and see if there is a group for your general area. someone there may live in you vicinity and that would be more helpful to you.


I live 3 miles south of town, so add just a few miles to each of those numbers. I was having a similar thought on the compass direction for each location. Right now my DB-8 is just bolted to the side of my house. I figured I would be in good shape with that when I did it. This weekend I am going to put a mast out there and attach the antenna to a mast so I can rotate it. My house faces West, so I guessed simply attaching an antenna to the north side would get me Toledo without a problem. I'll be able to rotate it more West this weekend after I get that mast out there and see if I can tweak it better.
As far as my ability to get Detroit in, I wasn't too surprised to see that happen. The terrain is really flat around here. The main radio station I listen to every day is out of Detroit as well.


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## Justinto (Jul 15, 2006)

When I switched from the LG3200A to the H10-250, I lost 1/2 of the stations in the Denver area. Buying an amplifier did not help. This is frustrating/


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## bpratt (Nov 24, 2005)

Justinto said:


> When I switched from the LG3200A to the H10-250, I lost 1/2 of the stations in the Denver area. Buying an amplifier did not help. This is frustrating/


I hope you are not using one of those POS amplifiers from Radio Shack. This is a good one that I use:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ELECTROLINE-4-P...2QQihZ007QQcategoryZ39803QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

If you get a good amplifier and still have problems receiving OTA stations and you are not afraid to remove the cover of your HR10-250, then try this:

Remove the HR10-250 cover. You will see the OTA connector going to a two way splitter. The cables out of the splitter go to the two OTA tuners. Remove the two cables from the two OTA tuners and connect two RG6 cables directly from your amplifer to the two OTA tuners.

This solved all the OTA problems I was having.


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## t_dennis (Jul 29, 2006)

Marvin said:


> My only issue is a vibrating picture on my UPN which is an SD subchannel. It is otherwise fine on my tvs built in tuner. I say vibrating..its the best way to describe the issue. If for instance you look at the logo on the bottom of the screen, its always moving, really quickly and not very much. The rest of the screen is as well and it causes a blurring/stuttering effect. I wonder what will happen when the UPN channel becomes Fox and goes HD..


I have the same exact issue. I had directv send me another HR 10 and it does it also. It is so bad you cant even consider watching it. When Maryland basketball comes on this fall it will really bug me.


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## buzzdalf (Jan 27, 2003)

Update to my recepton.
Well I mast mounted the antenna this weekend and rotated it about 15 degrees west and I think I am in good shape now!
All my Toledo stations have been coming in with no dropouts. I left the amps in-line and I am still getting most of the Detroit stations, too. I don't really care too much about receiving these (except WB 20 since we don't have a WB station in Toledo), but it's cool to see them coming in.
Thanks for the help. I think my issue is resolved and my wife is back to watching everything off the HR10-250


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## jdeitchler (Oct 10, 2005)

I took apart my receiver and found the cheapest set up jumpers that go from the off-air splitter to the two individual tuners. I made my own replacements (I work at a broadcast facility) with 3 GHz HD-SDI cable with Digicon F-connectors and Digicon RCA connectors. Once I connected them and put them back together. My off-air levels jumped through the roof on both tuners.


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## LarryInAz (Feb 8, 2004)

jdeitchler said:


> I took apart my receiver and found the cheapest set up jumpers that go from the off-air splitter to the two individual tuners. I made my own replacements (I work at a broadcast facility) with 3 GHz HD-SDI cable with Digicon F-connectors and Digicon RCA connectors. Once I connected them and put them back together. My off-air levels jumped through the roof on both tuners.


Any details [even pictures] would be greatly appreciated.
I have 2 HR10-250 units and their OTA reliability is terrible.
It can go for days getting a consistent signal from most stations and then get major pixelization or drop out for several days.  :nono2:


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## bigrig (Aug 7, 2002)

LarryInAz said:


> Any details [even pictures] would be greatly appreciated.
> I have 2 HR10-250 units and their OTA reliability is terrible.
> It can go for days getting a consistent signal from most stations and then get major pixelization or drop out for several days.  :nono2:


I think he's talking about the black cables that run under the hard-drive in the picture on this page - http://www.9thtee.com/tivo-dthd.htm

Matt


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## Indiana627 (Nov 18, 2005)

bigrig said:


> I think he's talking about the black cables that run under the hard-drive in the picture on this page - http://www.9thtee.com/tivo-dthd.htm


So are those 2 black cables under the hard drive just real short RG6 cables?


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## nytevizion (Sep 3, 2006)

I had the same problem with OTA reception on my HR10. With 1 HR10 (DVR) and 1 HTL-HD (standard HD reciever). I just couldn't get the tivo to recieve all of the OTA channels that my regular HD receiver could get on the same antenna.

I went as far as to installing a second antenna just for the DVR just to have the same problem.

I solved the problem with a cheap radio shack adjustable rf signal antennuator.

I noticed on the DVR the dual signal meter for OTA would not be consistant with eachother, each bar jumping around and they didn't match eachother.

Found the sweet spot with the antennuator and bingo, the bars stabilized and appear more consistant with eachother, and all of the OTA channels come in fine. I bought that atennuator a while back and almost tossed it. Hurray for being a pack rat.

I live in the chicago land area, and it was either, align the antenna to recieve channel 3 (2-1 CBS) and lose channel 7&11 (abc & pbs). I was going crazy trying to align the antenna when all along it seemed as though maybe channel 2-1 was overpowered because it was always at 95+ when the other channels did not come in.


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## gregftlaud (Nov 20, 2005)

sorry for being stupid....but how can a plugged in computer interfere with ota signals??


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## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

I was kind of wondering about that myself. I remember as a kid (back when your TV was hooked up to an antenna or rabbit ears for any reception ), if my mom ran the sewing machine, the picture would get scrambled while she was using the foot pedal, then clear when she wasn't. I guess I haven't thought about that in ages, but can that type of thing still happen?


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## nytevizion (Sep 3, 2006)

Actually yeah, but you get pixelization instead of snow.

If I run the microwave or (I THINK) if someone else runs their microwave close by I lose 2-1 (3) CBS...


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## jdeitchler (Oct 10, 2005)

Sorry, fellas, sort of drifted off of this thread for a bit. The two jumpers that were shown in the photos were the ones I replaced. However, I would not waste your time unless you have access to high end cable, tools, and connectors to make the cables. The off the shelf stuff at big box stores is not going to do anything for you as it is of the same quality.
I get all of my supplies from Liberty Wire and Cable out of Colorado Springs, CO. I am sure they will sell to you, but it will not be cheap.


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## mrb (Sep 14, 2006)

nytevizion said:


> I had the same problem with OTA reception on my HR10. With 1 HR10 (DVR) and 1 HTL-HD (standard HD reciever). I just couldn't get the tivo to recieve all of the OTA channels that my regular HD receiver could get on the same antenna.
> 
> I solved the problem with a cheap radio shack adjustable rf signal antennuator.
> 
> I live in the chicago land area, and it was either, align the antenna to recieve channel 3 (2-1 CBS) and lose channel 7&11 (abc & pbs). I was going crazy trying to align the antenna when all along it seemed as though maybe channel 2-1 was overpowered because it was always at 95+ when the other channels did not come in.


nytevizion--any place to buy something similar to what you mention above? I too live in Chicago and have the same problems you're describing, but Radio Shack's website has nothing named this. Google search shows four million different kinds, I'm lost! Any suggestions would be most appreciated from anyone!


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## GreatPig (Sep 19, 2006)

mrb said:


> nytevizion--any place to buy something similar to what you mention above? I too live in Chicago and have the same problems you're describing, but Radio Shack's website has nothing named this. Google search shows four million different kinds, I'm lost! Any suggestions would be most appreciated from anyone!


He probably meant: signal attenuator

RF attenuators reduce the power level of the signal by a set amount measured in dB - it does so with almost no signal reflection.


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## dsstalkcom (Oct 14, 2006)

i went to about 3 Radio Shack stores. they said the signal attenuator is discontinued.

i see a few online store still sell them. they are about $12-$14.

anybody know if a "FM Trap" will help?


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## mrb (Sep 14, 2006)

dsstalkcom said:


> i went to about 3 Radio Shack stores. they said the signal attenuator is discontinued.
> 
> i see a few online store still sell them. they are about $12-$14.
> 
> anybody know if a "FM Trap" will help?


I did end up buying an FM Trap from Radio Shack - but it's ALSO discontinued so I got it off eBay for like $10 or so with shipping.

I feel that it did indeed help improve reception. I have a RS amplified UHF/VHF antenna as well as a Zenith Silver Sensor hooked up into a splitter which then goes to the FM trap and then onto the tivo. I would say this combination gives me the best possible reception--but it's by no means perfect or totally dependable, just better than it was.

I recommend the FM trap.


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