# To UPS or NOT to UPS; that is the question



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Curious...

We where having this discussion else where...
But what do you think or do...

Do you have your DVRs (be it R15, DTivo, UTV, or *cough* something else)
on a UPS...


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

I personally have them all on smaller UPS... simply to help the "computer" inside avoid the tiny quick brownouts or power flickers.


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## HockeyKat (Jul 5, 2006)

I voted 'most' even though it's just 1 out of our 2 active ones right now. The one in the bedroom won't make us cry if it stops working after a power glitch. It's the one in the living room that does all the recording and had stuff we have yet to watch, etc. We've been using a USP on the main Tivo/DVR since before we even had DTV. Our H20 is now on it as well.


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

It's like flossing. I know I probably should, but I don't. I'd need two to make it worthwhile, since it's the livingroom one that I'd care about, but the multiswitch is plugged in near the bedroom one.


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## Chris Blount (Jun 22, 2001)

All of mine are on a UPS. Wouldn't leave home without it.


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## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

Because of the 5-10 minute bootup time, my DirecTiVo is on a UPS.


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

I'm moving my spare ups onto my dtv setup tonight so I'll vote tomorrow...I'm really putting on it just to try to stop the D-11 from hanging during every lightning storm, as, I'm not backing up my multi-switch so the DVR won't record anyway., but I'll put all the boxes on it anyway.


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## Vegas (Mar 2, 2006)

None on UPS, but all are at least on surge suppressors.


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## moonman (Oct 27, 2004)

I have my Tivo on a UPS...don't forget if you have a powered Multiswitch
to plug it in as well....


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

From the other thread:


ApK said:



> That makes no sense. You don't put a UPS on something based on price. You put it on based on the fact you want it to run during a power failure.
> 
> You put a $1000 UPS on a 99 cent light bulb if you need light when the power's out.


I wouldn't. Cost justification of a UPS is directly related to the risk you incurr. I'd get a $5 lantern.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> From the other thread:
> I wouldn't. Cost justification of a UPS is directly related to the risk you incurr. I'd get a $5 lantern.


So if say brownouts killed 2-3 DVR's and they cost you $99 per DVR would you then be able to justify the cheap UPS? I used to think like you until I moved to Florida with HORRIBLE power problems in the summer. :lol:


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## DJPellegrino (Nov 18, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I personally have them all on smaller UPS... simply to help the "computer" inside avoid the tiny quick brownouts or power flickers.


...I can see the need for one, however, it should not have to become a necessity!:nono2: Even with a UPS, some functions still don't work as they should.
For instance, the local weather requires our zip code, yet it is always reset when a reboot occurs or power failure occurs. How many times has your system rebooted, or needed a reboot/reset to bewcome functional again? The system remembers the zip code for the system setup, but a simple item like remembering your zip for other functions escapes me on how they missed it!


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Every device in my house that has a hard drive is on a UPS. Also, every piece of hardware that is essential to keeping my network running (routers and switches) are on UPSes as well. My DLP TV is also on a beefy UPS. It's not good for the bulb if the power goes out, because it doesn't have a fan to cool it down. So the UPS keeps the TV running through quick outages like a circuit breaker tripping, and gives ample time to shut off the TV properly and allow the bulb to cool down in case of a real power outage.


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> From the other thread:
> I wouldn't. Cost justification of a UPS is directly related to the risk you incurr. I'd get a $5 lantern.


Cost justification based on the value of the service lost if power goes out, not on the price of the equipment connected. Protecting the hardware is a bonus in this case.

Like with life support equipment in hostpitals. they are backed up to keep the patient alive, not to protect the equipment. It would be backed up no matter how cheap the equipment was to replace as compared to the cost of the backup systems.

Similarly here, the fact that a $25 UPS can save you from having to replace a $99 hard drive based box is just a bonus (though a pretty darned good bonus) but what it REALLY for is to save you from missing a recording and from having to spend time reentering data. If that's not important enough to you to be worth a small investment, why the heck are you paying for DVR service and Satellite TV?!?


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

And all my PC's too. Plus I have a 850watt generator waiting to go online. No, not overkill, rural mountain weather.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

ISWIZ said:


> And all my PC's too. Plus I have a 850watt generator waiting to go online. No, not overkill, rural mountain weather.


Well.... I have 1.21 Jigawatts running through my flux-capaciter.....


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

ApK said:


> Cost justification based on the value of the service lost if power goes out, not on the price of the equipment connected. Protecting the hardware is a bonus in this case.


I've got a generator I can plug into a cutover box in the event I loose power for a lengthly period of time.

*EDIT: That was for the ice storms back in Michigan. Haven't come close to needing it here in Arizona.*


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

All my TiVo's had UPS's on them, but during one power outage I still didn't get my recordings. All I got was searching for signal.

Doh!!!! I forgot to UPS my multiswitchs. Now they have one as well.


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## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

OK, I'll ask the asinine question.

What exactly is a UPS, what is it's function, how much could a person expect to pay for one, are they multiple-outlet doo-hickeys like a surge protector/power strip, or is there just one outlet per UPS, how much can be plugged into (or through) a single UPS?

Be nice. I've never really heard of them. Plus, I've never lost equipment or the use thereof due to a surge or outage damage, so I am pretty much - yup - ignorant!


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

I've got 3 out of 3 dvr's on UPS, but they are low cost units that do not provide continuous inverted power, but rather switch over rapidly on a power failure. The intent is to provide uninterrupted power, not to provide smooth, filtered, etc., power which any low end UPS simply is not designed to do. These will let my dvr's continue to record during a brief (up to perhaps 20 minute) power outage. Beyond that, too bad.

I'm not very confident that any low end UPS is going to help you out if you have fairly unstable power (spikes or low voltage drops, etc.). They mostly kick in on loss of main power with a switchover time in the 10s of milliseconds typically. Quick enough that most equipment, like a dvr, will survive the very brief absence of power (although power supplies are getting cheaper and cheaper, so who knows).

Carl


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

JLucPicard said:


> What exactly is a UPS


Uninterruptable Power Supply


JLucPicard said:


> what is it's function


It provides battery power when the power goes out. Some more advanced ones can also kick up the voltage without switching to battery power when it drops below a certain level.


JLucPicard said:


> how much could a person expect to pay for one


For consumer devices, the range is about $50-$500.


JLucPicard said:


> are they multiple-outlet doo-hickeys like a surge protector/power strip, or is there just one outlet per UPS


Almost all of them have more than one outlet that is backed up by the UPS. Most of them also have additional outlets that are not backed up by the UPS, but still provide surge protection.


JLucPicard said:


> how much can be plugged into (or through) a single UPS?


That varies depending on the rating of the UPS. Obviously ones that are rated higher can handle more.


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## moonman (Oct 27, 2004)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Well.... I have 1.21 Jigawatts running through my flux-capaciter.....


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Well Professor....Back to the Future with you!! (or is it McFly?)


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> For consumer devices, the range is about $50-$500


And for a unit adaquate to power a dvr or two through a typical thunderstorm, they can often be even less with sales and rebate:

http://dealnews.com/deals/APC-Back-UPS-ES-650-VA-UPS-for-30-shipped-after-rebate/125024.html


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

I don't have a DVR so I don't use UPS but I have used Fedex.

Sorry guys couldn't resist that one.:sure:


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Great response Jermey W!!!!

As a note to other, now that the UPS is out of the bag. All UPSes are not created equal. You get what you pay for.....and all of the other standard cliches.

Watch what you buy as there are different breeds out there. Some that work, some don't so much.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

As for the ones that work, I highly recommend Belkin. I've been buying their UPSes exclusively for a few years now, and I am completely satisfied with them.


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## AnonomissX (Jun 29, 2006)

I'm too cheap to buy UPS's for my tivos/ r15. My computer stuff isn't so important that I would have a cow if it had to reboot (damn thing does it on its own anyways, no power interruption  )

If you get a power outage, read a book till the tivo comes back on, but then that family togetherness thing can get out of hand....


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

carl6 said:


> I'm not very confident that any low end UPS is going to help you out if you have fairly unstable power (spikes or low voltage drops, etc.). They mostly kick in on loss of main power with a switchover time in the 10s of milliseconds typically. Quick enough that most equipment, like a dvr, will survive the very brief absence of power (although power supplies are getting cheaper and cheaper, so who knows).
> 
> Carl


Certainly a true on-line, regulated, pure sine-wave UPS would be ideal, but I can tell you from years of experience that even most of the <$100 ones available at CompUSA and Best-Buy from brands like APS and Triplite are adaquate to protecting and powering computers and other consumer goods through typical temperate climate brownouts and blackouts.

Of course, as consumers get conditioned to accepting less and less quality for their money (witness the R15  ) that may not hold true much longer.

ApK


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## TheTooleMan (Apr 9, 2006)

Vegas said:


> None on UPS, but all are at least on surge suppressors.


Mine, too. But my PC's are on UPS's. Work is more important than pleasure.

Boy are my priorities messed up! :grin:


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## thumperr (Feb 10, 2006)

3UTVs and 1 HR10. plus the TVs, and all computer equipment. 

remember
Save early, save often...


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## LtMunst (Aug 24, 2005)

carl6 said:


> I'm not very confident that any low end UPS is going to help you out if you have fairly unstable power (spikes or low voltage drops, etc.). They mostly kick in on loss of main power with a switchover time in the 10s of milliseconds typically. Quick enough that most equipment, like a dvr, will survive the very brief absence of power (although power supplies are getting cheaper and cheaper, so who knows).
> Carl


Very true. It is important that you only buy an UPS with AVR (Automatic Voltage Regulation). These units are much better protection against brief undervoltages.


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## Larry G (Apr 13, 2006)

OK now that I've gotten thru this thread
1) I finally know what a UPS is Thanks JLucPicard
and Jeremy W
2) I know why to hook a DLP up to one  Again Thanks Jeremy W
But why does a DVR need one? 
I've never had a DVR but I will when the HR20 comes out 
and if I need a UPS for it I'd like to have it in advance.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

Larry G said:


> OK now that I've gotten thru this thread
> 1) I finally know what a UPS is Thanks JLucPicard
> and Jeremy W
> 2) I know why to hook a DLP up to one  Again Thanks Jeremy W
> ...


Mostly because a DVR is just a specialized PC, it has a hard drive and other PC type of parts. Like a server in your office the Hard Drives run probably almost all of the time which causes them to heat up. Then like most server admins I am usually afraid to shut them down because that usually when a drive failure will happen.

Outside of that power flucuations and brownouts can cause many problems with the parts in the box also.


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

Adding to Clint's reply concerning the mechanical aspect, electronic devices don't take well to having power suddenly removed and replied, It can cause components to burn out.

Also, data being written to a hard drive at the time power is suddenly removed can result in corruption, potentially severe enough to prevent the drive from being readable at all when power is restored.

Do you NEED a UPS on DVR? No. Not by any significant definition of need. But I can certainly see why you'd want one.


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## Larry G (Apr 13, 2006)

Thanks Clint, Apk for the quick responses.
So basically the same type of equipment one would protect from Over Voltage/ Power with a surge suppression device one should protect from Under Voltage/ Power with a UPS.
Makes sense.


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

Since this interesting and (mostly) helpful topic was only posted to a D* forum, 
is one to assume that the use of UPS's only applies to D* subs? :whatdidid


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Sorry Nick..

No it can cross all boundries (and I will move it)

The discussion started over in the R15 forum... so I just started it here.


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

If a UPS kicks in, how clean is the AC? Since it's running off a battery (DC) how well is the DC recified? I bet the cheepest units put out nasty square waves.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

I put mine on a UPS because of brief power outages. I also have my switch power inserter on the UPS - I was missing the occasional program because of brief power failures.

I do need to add my second DVR to a UPS some day.


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## Groundhog45 (Nov 10, 2005)

Four UPSs for 3 DVRs, 3 PCs, and all the network stuff. Plus the H20 and the multiswitch for no particular reason except for protection.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

OK how many folks really have a UPS for their multiswitch?


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

If I had a powered multiswitch, I'd have a UPS on it!


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## Groundhog45 (Nov 10, 2005)

The multiswitch is plugged into the same UPS as my R10 in the living room and the coax used for power goes through the wall to the switch outside. If the power goes off while a program is recording, I should get it unless we're having a storm and rain fade kills the signal. I just have a phase 3 dish.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

I've had UPS's on all my DVR's and have since I first got them. I've also put UPS's on all my 'expensive' hardware, such as LCD/Plasma set's, I figure I send thousands of dollars on this stuff, what's another couple hundred for a bit of added piece of mind?


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## newsposter (Nov 13, 2003)

RAD I agree.

how many of us spent at least 4, if not 5 figures on electronics? Even $150 bucks is a small price to pay. I paid 129 approx. for a belkin 1100 a few years ago...2 hdtivos, dvd burner, 57 inch crt, and a few stereo components as well as 2 modulators on it. I can even run the CRT for a while if i wanted or have a few days tivo usage lol. But fortunately I've never tested it. 

Even during the little storms that pop up here, the lights may not flicker, but you hear the clicking of the UPS, which means either the surge or battery (?) was used. 

I sure wouldn't want that to have affected my $$$ equipment. 

As noted above i do also think AVR is good to get. Though i'll leave it to the experts to explain why. 

you have your car/house/apt/health insured, why not your electronics?


question on topic? Are the electric company's whole house rental things that plug into the meter directly worth getting? Do they take the place of internal surge protectors and can you use them with a UPS?


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Keep in mind that a UPS can also provide a false sense of security in that the batteries in those units don't last forever. Make sure units are tested once in a while and watch for a "replace battery" indicator.


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## flynlr (Jan 21, 2006)

all my dvr's "2" and my pc's "5" are on APC ups's. along with the networking equipment. we hav ealot of brownouts and 1-2 second blackouts here and they have saved my butt many times.


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## TheTooleMan (Apr 9, 2006)

How do I unsubscribe from this thread?


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## newsposter (Nov 13, 2003)

top of page...

thread tools

unsub


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## newsposter (Nov 13, 2003)

Wolffpack said:


> Keep in mind that a UPS can also provide a false sense of security in that the batteries in those units don't last forever. Make sure units are tested once in a while and watch for a "replace battery" indicator.


one nice thing about belkin (and prob others but i dont know) is that you can hook them up to computers and set the warnings to buzz/not buzz...and see lights for other things on the unit


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## LtMunst (Aug 24, 2005)

newsposter said:


> one nice thing about belkin (and prob others but i dont know) is that you can hook them up to computers and set the warnings to buzz/not buzz...and see lights for other things on the unit


CyberPower includes those same types of utilities.


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## moonman (Oct 27, 2004)

TheTooleMan said:


> How do I unsubscribe from this thread?


There is no longer a "unsubscribe" option with Thread tools....if you
receive reply's to your subscriptions via e-mail, look at the bottom of the
reply....it will tell you how to "unsub" from that subscription. You can drop
that thread or all your subs....


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## TheTooleMan (Apr 9, 2006)

moonman said:


> There is no longer a "unsubscribe" option with Thread tools....if you
> receive reply's to your subscriptions via e-mail, look at the bottom of the
> reply....it will tell you how to "unsub" from that subscription. You can drop
> that thread or all your subs....


How appropriate. Our forum software follows the same philosophy as DirecTV - arbitrarily change or remove functionality at the whim of the developer.

:nono2:


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Go to your control panel
http://www.dbstalk.com/usercp.php

All subscribed threads are listed there with an unsubscribe option listed for each thread.

(You may have to click "View all Subscribed Threads" at the bottom of the list if there have been no posts in the thread you wish to unsubscribe to since your last visit.)


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

TheTooleMan said:


> How appropriate. Our forum software follows the same philosophy as DirecTV - arbitrarily change or remove functionality at the whim of the developer.
> 
> :nono2:


Yeah, sure, as opposed to every other product in the world, where they run every decision by you personally before taking any action? :nono2:


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