# Anyone see Consumer Reports Feb 09 - rates D* significantly higher than E*



## david_jr (Dec 10, 2006)

CR rates D* excellent for Channel selection, picture and sound and average for value, reliability and support. While they rate E* above average for sound and average in all the other categories. In their recomendations they state: "If TV is paramount and you can’t get fiber service:

A hybrid bundle that includes DirecTV

This satellite-TV provider scored significantly higher than the major cable companies and rival Dish Network for TV picture, sound, and channel selection, with 150 high-def channels at the latest count, compared with 75 or so for AT&T and 35 to 50 for most cable companies. Its TV service is offered in hybrid bundles with DSL and phone service from some telephone providers. Combinations of Qwest Internet and phone services and DirecTV television service compare well against bundles from the best cable companies. Satellite requires a satellite dish and other equipment, usually free or at a discount in exchange for a contractual commitment."


Of course they pick Verizon FIOS and ATT U-verse as best overall.

This doesn't seem to be accurate from what I've gathered here the PQ & sound between E* & D* is about even. Seems like "significantly higher" is a bit of an exageration? I wonder if they're just going by D* press releases or if they actually watched both services. Any thoughts?


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## HobbyTalk (Jul 14, 2007)

david_jr said:


> This doesn't seem to be accurate from what I've gathered here the PQ & sound between E* & D* is about even. Seems like "significantly higher" is a bit of an exageration? I wonder if they're just going by D* press releases or if they actually watched both services. Any thoughts?


Obviously if they say this: "with 150 high-def channels at the latest count"


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## dclaryjr (Mar 11, 2007)

This is the same group of folks that rated my Sharp DLP as the best in it's class. A year later Sharp paid me my full purchase price rather than replace the light engine for the third time in a year, and got out of the DLP business altogether. 

CR should stick to cars and washing machines!


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

On pure numbers/stats, picture quality should be:

- FIOS
- DirecTV
- Dish
- Uverse (4th and falling, as they'll need to increase compression/reduce PQ again to go 3HD/1SD)

Cable can't be fairly listed, because each local franchise is its own system, and PQ could be anywhere from very good to very bad.

But remember, these are based off of end-user satisfaction reports, not an objective comparison between the two services. People who rate Uverse or Cable highly may not even know what they're missing. If you've only had a 40-hour whole-house DVR (and it's your first DVR experience), you won't have any idea how nice it is to have multiple 100-hour DVRs, or to be able to set up recordings at each TV, for example.

All this tells you is "people like it", not that it is technically better or worse.


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## david_jr (Dec 10, 2006)

Well my parents have Time Warner HD on a 47 LCD and the quality can't compare to my DISH HD on a 50" Sammy plasma (should I be nervous? a CR best buy & # 1 pick). Lightyears of difference. May not be a fair comparison, but DISH HD seems at least to me a bunch better than TW HD. I have never seen D* HD as no one I know actually has their HD. The few people I know with D* only have SD & the PQ was not noticeably better than E*, again hard to compare apples and oranges as I didn't see them side by side on the same setup. CR seemed in the tank on this one though so I am wondering if they are not so down the middle on the rest of their picks in general.


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## LarryFlowers (Sep 22, 2006)

Lost all faith in Consumer Reports years ago after reading an article rating Video Recorders (I said it was years ago). They were rating basic model VCR's and comparing many brands... my issue was with the different ratings for the Magnavox, Panasonic, GE, & Quasar. All received different ratings... all were the exact same unit with a different front facing and manufactured by Matsu****a.

DirecTV deserves its rating, but AT&T Uverse... :lol:

Larry


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## HDRoberts (Dec 11, 2007)

Consumer Reports is a joke anymore. They know very little about electronics, and probably made their picks based solely on the marketing. 

More likely they were far more impressed with bundled billing than DVR features. 

Like another poster says, stick to washing machines (but I don't think I trust their picks for cars, either)


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## peak_reception (Feb 10, 2008)

LarryFlowers said:


> Lost all faith in Consumer Reports years ago after reading an article rating Video Recorders (I said it was years ago). They were rating basic model VCR's and comparing many brands... my issue was with the different ratings for the Magnavox, Panasonic, GE, & Quasar. All received different ratings... all were the exact same unit with a different front facing and manufactured by Matsu****a.


*Matsu****a.* Gotta Love the automated censor! :lol:


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## LarryFlowers (Sep 22, 2006)

Sorry but that is the name of the company spelled properly I wasn't trying to offend anyone. It's the actually name of Panasonics parent.

Larry


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## david_jr (Dec 10, 2006)

HDRoberts said:


> Consumer Reports is a joke anymore. They know very little about electronics, and probably made their picks based solely on the marketing.
> 
> More likely they were far more impressed with bundled billing than DVR features.


I suspected as such as I have been a subscriber for many years now and have never been polled regarding my TV or Internet service one time. I am considering giving up my subscription as i use it less and less and can usually get the same info from Google.


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## bearsloft (Jan 7, 2009)

I agree that I am more than a little dismayed by CR these days. I've been a subscriber for years. And it's my first stop as a tool to check reviews of things.

Well last week we had a little scare as to whether to repair or replace our 30 year old dishwasher (REPAIR is the correct answer, they don't make em to last even 5 years any more) anyway I checked CR for recommendations for a new dishwasher. After you click on a specific model then you can read the reviews posted by members. Again and again members would say "I bought this item because CR recommended it. DON"T BUY it, it broke or it doesn't wash well, or it blah blah blah". 

CR is not what it used to be.

Bear


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## grooves12 (Oct 27, 2005)

david_jr said:


> This doesn't seem to be accurate from what I've gathered here the PQ & sound between E* & D* is about even. Seems like "significantly higher" is a bit of an exageration? I wonder if they're just going by D* press releases or if they actually watched both services. Any thoughts?


I watch both services on a regular basis, and DirecTV's picture quality IS SIGNIFICANTLY better than Dish Network's. (I am a Dish Network subscriber and my parents have Directv.)

Dish Network's picture is a lot fuzzier and has a lot of macroblocking/breakups in the picture during any signficant motion. In a paused picture side by side they are probably close, but Dish seems to use a lot more compression and lower bandwidth than DirecTV, and the overall viewing experience is significantly reduced because of it.


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## Glen_D (Oct 21, 2006)

IIP said:


> Cable can't be fairly listed, because each local franchise is its own system, and PQ could be anywhere from very good to very bad.
> 
> But remember, these are based off of end-user satisfaction reports, not an objective comparison between the two services. People who rate Uverse or Cable highly may not even know what they're missing. If you've only had a 40-hour whole-house DVR (and it's your first DVR experience), you won't have any idea how nice it is to have multiple 100-hour DVRs, or to be able to set up recordings at each TV, for example.
> 
> All this tells you is "people like it", not that it is technically better or worse.


Bingo! That's exactly the problem I see with the rankings. Unlike most things they test, which are actual side-by-side comparisons, these rankings are based on the results of a user's poll.

I can tell you my DirecTV service is fine, but I can't compare it to the other services available to me - no practical way for me to do a side-by-side comparison. So maybe I don't realize how good I have it, or maybe I don't realize what I'm missing!


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## ImBack234 (Aug 26, 2008)

HDRoberts said:


> Consumer Reports is a joke anymore. They know very little about electronics, and probably made their picks based solely on the marketing.
> 
> More likely they were far more impressed with bundled billing than DVR features.
> 
> Like another poster says, stick to washing machines (but I don't think I trust their picks for cars, either)


Electronics and just about anything else. I remember one year they told you to stay away from 8 o'clock coffee, well that same year and for years if you bought a cup of 7-11 coffee that's what you got!!! For all I know thats still 7-11 coffee.


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## david_jr (Dec 10, 2006)

grooves12 said:


> I watch both services on a regular basis, and DirecTV's picture quality IS SIGNIFICANTLY better than Dish Network's. (I am a Dish Network subscriber and my parents have Directv.)
> 
> Dish Network's picture is a lot fuzzier and has a lot of macroblocking/breakups in the picture during any signficant motion. In a paused picture side by side they are probably close, but Dish seems to use a lot more compression and lower bandwidth than DirecTV, and the overall viewing experience is significantly reduced because of it.


I have not seen the macroblocking on motion that you describe. Again, I have not seen the two side by side either. Sometimes the motion blurr can be the TV. I am watching on a 1080P plasma. Just a thought. I have noticed a lot of the so called compression artifacts on the DISH SD however. Soemtimes it is mindboggling how much compression they use especially on LIL SD. Makes the picture unwatchable as far as I am concerned.


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## miketorse (Jul 30, 2008)

peak_reception said:


> *Matsu****a.* Gotta Love the automated censor! :lol:


:rolling: That is hilarious. I was wondering what was meant by that!


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## SamC (Jan 20, 2003)

I disbelieve everything CR says. It takes unscientific, experiential, and opinional materal, wraps it in science lingo and workers in lab coats and calls thes "findings".

CR says DirecTV is "better" than DISH. No. Some writer at CR has an O P I N I O N that DirecTV is better than DISH. You might have a differnet opinion.

And, CR is a totally biased far-left publication. Its editor (who is paid nearly 10 figures per year) describes herself as a "democratic socialist" and advocates, in her own words, "govenment ownership of all companies".


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

dclaryjr said:


> CR should stick to cars and washing machines!


Actually, they need to review their whole methodology and rating system. I was recently perusing their online site looking for a microwave oven. They rated a couple of models particularly highly (their reviews often don't show any excellent performers). When I read the user reviews, they were a horse of a different color. Many disputed both the reliability ratings as well as the performance in basic metrics. Some were obvious plants from competitors or salesmen but many called into question the basis of the comparisons.

Obviously, it is entirely possible that everything today is crap and giving reviews involves spotting the bubbles that rise to the top of the cesspool.

CR's comparisons with respect to programming providers have always seemed a little lacking and the new report doesn't change that. Just as some will trade an entire programming genre for just one or pick a DVR for a single feature and change providers to get it, it is a difficult task indeed. In this case, they obviously got caught up in the channel count and theories about which technology _should_ be better.


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## bluemoon737 (Feb 21, 2007)

LarryFlowers said:


> Sorry but that is the name of the company spelled properly I wasn't trying to offend anyone. It's the actually name of Panasonics parent.
> 
> Larry


Actually I believe the company is now called Panasonic Corporation (Matsu..... no longer exists with the name change). All the subsidiaries now fall under the Panasonic Corporation name.


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

harsh said:


> Actually, they need to review their whole methodology and rating system. I was recently perusing their online site looking for a microwave oven. They rated a couple of models particularly highly (their reviews often don't show any excellent performers). When I read the user reviews, they were a horse of a different color. Many disputed both the reliability ratings as well as the performance in basic metrics. Some were obvious plants from competitors or salesmen but many called into question the basis of the comparisons.


I know 2 appliance repair guys; one here in the Bay Area and one in LA. The LA guy does a lot of work in the Hollywood hills and deals with higher-end appliances, as well as your typical suburban stuff. In talking to them, there are clear trends:

- Washing machines are important: spend the money here. Whirlpool are strongly recommended, as are Fisher & Paykel. Whirlpool licenses F&P tech for their Cabrio line. Front-loaders tend to have seal problems (they'll leak) and mold/mildew problems (gotta keep the door open between uses).

- Dryers are nearly identical; get the cheapest one you can.

- All of the high-end appliance companies have their OEM microwaves made by Sharp. Most commercial microwaves are made by Sharp. If you want a microwave, buy a Sharp.

- Refrigerators: Whirlpool or Frigidaire tend to be the best among the common brands, but most are decent. Vaccuum the coils twice a year and it will give you years of trouble-free service.

- Avoid GE appliances, they are junk across the board.

Naturally, my house is full of GE appliances. The built-in microwave is worthless, and my washing machine needed a new transmission. I'll know better next time.


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## Ghostwriter (Oct 11, 2005)

I take all reviews with a grain of salt esp user reviews. If someone upgraded from a 19" tube TV to the worst 42" LCD they will most likely say that its a great set with great options, its worth the money, excellent picture so on and so forth. Heck I remember the day I brought home my first Surround Sound I thought that it was incredible, and in all honesty it was a piece of junk, but having nothing to compare it to at the time i thought it was perfect.

So user reviews IMO and especially at the larger sites are scewed, plus many don't want to admit they just finished purchasing a bad product.


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## HobbyTalk (Jul 14, 2007)

You also have to consider what people are buying. Someone that purchases an inexpensive piece of equipment may not be expecting much so they are easy to satisfy. Those laying out big bucks for something will be much harder to please.

Reminds me of a study I seen done a few years ago when Hyundai jumped to the top of consumer satisfaction serveys. Another study showed that Hyundai owners were less likely to complain about small problems while someone that owned a Honda would as they expected very high quality.


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## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

david_jr said:


> CR rates D* excellent for Channel selection, picture and sound and average for value, reliability and support. While they rate E* above average for sound and average in all the other categories. In their recomendations they state: "If TV is paramount and you can't get fiber service:
> 
> A hybrid bundle that includes DirecTV
> 
> ...


You sure you mean the Feb 09 issue. I don't see this report.


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## dennispap (Feb 1, 2007)

tnsprin said:


> You sure you mean the Feb 09 issue. I don't see this report.


Yes it is the Feb 09 issue.(Rebuild your nest egg is on the cover)
Page 24/25


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## kokishin (Sep 30, 2006)

http://panasonic.co.jp/corp/news/official.data/data.dir/en081001-4/en081001-4.html



LarryFlowers said:


> Sorry but that is the name of the company spelled properly I wasn't trying to offend anyone. It's the actually name of Panasonics parent.
> 
> Larry


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## david_jr (Dec 10, 2006)

dennispap said:


> Yes it is the Feb 09 issue.(Rebuild your nest egg is on the cover)
> Page 24/25


It's a story about packaging TV, phone & internet.


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## BillJ (May 5, 2005)

I gave up on Consumers Reports when they kept picking cars that I wouldn't buy if they were half price. Now I look for user reviews at places like Amazon, Cnet, or even the big box stores websites. You have to keep in mind that some people will never be happy and are very vocal about it while many happy people won't post a review. But if I find a product with a few good reviews and not too many bad ones, I figure its okay. 

A couple years ago user reviews kept me from making a huge mistake when I replaced a printer. I'd used the same brand for years and planned to buy another. Then I saw several reivews complaining about problems with their paper feed system on several models. Turned out they had cheapened it and it often broke within a year. Started checking other brands and found one that has proven superior in many ways.


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## RasputinAXP (Jan 23, 2008)

BillJ said:


> I gave up on Consumers Reports when they kept picking cars that I wouldn't buy if they were half price. Now I look for user reviews at places like Amazon, Cnet, or even the big box stores websites.


Edmund's is a good place to go for car reviews.


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## festivus (Nov 10, 2008)

CR wants to charge for an online subscription as well. Hardly worth it. We got a Whirlpool Duet Washer/Dryer set some years ago based on the high CR rating. Had to get the washer replaced due to mold. Lowes was kind enough to take it back. Whirlpool didn't want to hear it. We keep the door wide open on the new one to prevent mold but it's a big door and it's always in the way and it still stinks.

I'll never buy another whirlpool washer no matter what CR says.


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