# Dish Network forcing advertisement timers on us.



## dingoringo48 (Nov 18, 2008)

I noticed today that there was a new timer on my 522. It's an auto tune timer for, I assume, a commercial/infomercial. Very uncool to force ads and timers on paying customers. I pay plenty for the service, I don't see why they need to double dip and sell us to advertisers. Here's a screen grab:


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Welcome to DISH Network.

BTW: The product being advertised is a DISH Network product (SlingBox ... Sling Media was purchased by DISH). DISH didn't sell you, they are just marketing another one of their products to you.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Hmmmm. I knew some moron was in charge of marketing. But I suppose it will sell a slingbox or two out of the millions of recordings....


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## dingoringo48 (Nov 18, 2008)

James Long said:


> Welcome to DISH Network.
> 
> Sling Media was purchased by DISH. DISH didn't sell you, they are just marketing another one of their products to you.


Thank you for clarifying that, but it still rubs me the wrong way. They can run ads for their products on channel 101 all day and night; that's their right and it doesn't bother me one bit. But pushing ads into the customers' timer list and changing the channel for us to their ads? Sorry, that's a no-no as far as I'm concerned.


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## Slamminc11 (Jan 28, 2005)

so don't watch it. They aren't requiring you to have to watch it so just delete it.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

I'd say dump DISH and find another provider, except DirecTV managed to force a political ad to their receivers. Marketing is just part of the service.


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## fwampler (Dec 2, 2005)

Or maybe cable?


James Long said:


> I'd say dump DISH and find another provider, except DirecTV managed to force a political ad to their receivers. Marketing is just part of the service.


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

dingoringo48 said:


> Very uncool to force ads and timers on paying customers. I pay plenty for the service, I don't see why they need to double dip and sell us to advertisers.


You do know that you can turn them off if you don't want them, don't you?

I don't have a 522 but on the 622/722 to turn them off press menu, system setup (6), installation (1), TV Enhancements (6), choose disable and you will not see the popups.


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## TulsaOK (Feb 24, 2004)

Bill R said:


> You do know that you can turn them off if you don't want them, don't you?
> 
> I don't have a 522 but on the 622/722 to turn them off press menu, system setup (6), installation (1), TV Enhancements (6), choose disable and you will not see the popups.


Does that prevent the recordings as well?


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

TulsaOK said:


> Does that prevent the recordings as well?


What recordings are you referring to? The recordings only take place if you press select and choose to record the program for that advertisement popup. If you turn off the "enhancements" you won't see the popups at all.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

They are talking about forced program records. I have not seen any on my receivers in quite a while (years). This isn't the new "set a recording" interactive popup (mentioned on the Tech Forum).


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

Bill R said:


> You do know that you can turn them off if you don't want them, don't you?
> 
> I don't have a 522 but on the 622/722 to turn them off press menu, system setup (6), installation (1), TV Enhancements (6), choose disable and you will not see the popups.


Bill R,

I think you need to re-read the original post... he's talking about a timer being created on his box by E*.


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## CorpITGuy (Apr 12, 2007)

I have a TiVO box (which I purchased during a brief period of time where I had to have cable) that does that.


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

SaltiDawg said:


> Bill R,
> 
> I think you need to re-read the original post... he's talking about a timer being created on his box by E*.


I think that turning off "enhancements" will stop them too.


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## dingoringo48 (Nov 18, 2008)

Slamminc11 said:


> They aren't requiring you to have to watch it so just delete it.


It absolutely amazes me when topics like this come up and people defend the corporations with sentiments like, "So don't watch it...just delete it." I mean, really dude? Do you also tell people concerned about domestic wiretapping that if they haven't done anything wrong then they have nothing to worry about?

I know that I'm not "required" to watch it, the point I was making by starting the thread is that paying customers should not have ads pushed into the timer list. And I don't want Dish Network to decide what I should be watching and changing the channel to an advertisement for me.

Others in the thread have pointed out that DirecTV and Tivo have also done this sort of thing in the past. I wasn't aware of that because I've had Dish Network for as long as I can remember - and they've never done anything like this before. The only similar thing I can think of was about four years ago when they introduced name based recording and pushed a timer that recorded a five minute tutorial on how to use it. That was service/feature related and I was very pleased that they did that, even though I already knew how to use it and had no personal use for the tutorial.

In fact, part of the reason I've stayed with Dish this long is that they always seemed to be the least "scum-baggy" of all the TV providers. I hope that's not starting to change. Maybe if people were more indignant about things like this, corporations and government wouldn't feel as though they had the _right_ to inject themselves into every little corner of our lives. It's a slippery slope, my friends.



Bill R said:


> I think that turning off "enhancements" will stop them too.


Bill, thank you for the advice, but my "enhancements" are (and always have been) off. This wasn't like one of those blue pop-up icons. This was an actual auto tune timer to an advertisement on channel 101.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

dingoringo48 said:


> It absolutely amazes me when topics like this come up and people defend the corporations with sentiments like, "So don't watch it...just delete it." I mean, really dude? Do you also tell people concerned about domestic wiretapping that if they haven't done anything wrong then they have nothing to worry about?
> 
> I know that I'm not "required" to watch it, the point I was making by starting the thread is that paying customers should not have ads pushed into the timer list. And I don't want Dish Network to decide what I should be watching and changing the channel to an advertisement for me.
> 
> ...


Oh man... did you just compare wiretapping with providers putting ads that you can watch on your DVR?

Tivo and Directv do it and keep these recordings in a seperate place from the regular recordings we make. It doesn't take up any of the hard drive space that is advertised as recording space for me... I don't even know there there unless I look for them...

Generally, if you buy a service from a provider, they are going to offer to sell you more products... and they are going to advertise to you... Do you get catalogs from any company in the mail? Its the same thing... only its a heck of a lot cheaper for Dish and others to do things that way than send out a catalogue...

To me its kind of like they have a place in my dvr where if i feel like i want to see some offers, i can go find them, but i don't have to see them if i don't want to.. and they never show up on any timer or anything like that on Directv.. its all done in the background.. So it never interfears with me..... They keep those where they keep all the how to videos for us too...

And it is THEIR products that we are using, so they are giving us the option to not get these advertisments.. just don't get their service.... I think thats a two way street in the world of service providers... Thats not at all the same thing as governmental issues.. they work for us.... and its not an optional thing on our part... their exsistance in our lives that is...

I don't think that this is scum bag tactics... Its advertising, which is the way companies make money... Now, what they claim in advertisments.. that is where scum bag tactics might come in... and Dish is every bit as bad as Directv is with that.. But I do believe that cable is by far the worst offender, at least around my parts...

Are you going to say that the newest fun thing tivos can do is bad too? In case you haven't heard, people will be able to order dominos pizza and have it delivered to your house... Is that just as bad? Seriously? Or would you consider that more of an additional feature? Where is the line between features/convineces and butting into out lives?


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## Slamminc11 (Jan 28, 2005)

dingoringo48 said:


> It absolutely amazes me when topics like this come up and people defend the corporations with sentiments like, "So don't watch it...just delete it." I mean, really dude? Do you also tell people concerned about domestic wiretapping that if they haven't done anything wrong then they have nothing to worry about?
> 
> I know that I'm not "required" to watch it, the point I was making by starting the thread is that paying customers should not have ads pushed into the timer list. And I don't want Dish Network to decide what I should be watching and changing the channel to an advertisement for me.
> 
> ...


I'm glad I was able to amaze you!  
Sounds to me like you need to drop pay tv and just get your basic five if you are that paranoid. Wiretapping, really!?!


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

dingoringo48 said:


> ... the point I was making by starting the thread is that paying customers should not have ads pushed into the timer list. ...


WTF? Where is this written? May Ads be included with your monthly bill? How 'bout in the Newspaper that you pay for? On the Cereal box from which you get your Oatmeal?
I love it when people make up rules.


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

Well, it seems to me as though there is a possible violation of the "do not change content" rule. Consider I may be watching one of my local channels when this timer fires and inserts different content into my viewing pleasure.


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## BillJ (May 5, 2005)

I haven't seen this yet on either of my 622s. Providing it doesn't (a) override one of my existing timers or (b) override something I'm watching live, it wouldn't bother me. If I see something in my recorded programs that I didn't setup I'll just delete it. I have more important things in my life to worry about. Like how I'm going to feed myself once the financial crisis has destroyed my net worth.


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## finniganps (Jan 23, 2004)

This is the way it will be in the future. They want to sell you more. It's just like when you go to the movies you're hit with a barage of ads...the movie "starts' and you get more ads. Just ignore them, or as others suggested go to cable.


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## Bradtothebone (Aug 11, 2003)

BillJ said:


> I haven't seen this yet on either of my 622s. *Providing it doesn't (a) override one of my existing timers or (b) override something I'm watching live, it wouldn't bother me.* If I see something in my recorded programs that I didn't setup I'll just delete it. I have more important things in my life to worry about. Like how I'm going to feed myself once the financial crisis has destroyed my net worth.


(My emphasis above)

Notice the priority on the recording in the screenshot (*1 of 94*). In theory, it definitely could override something you have set to record. Maybe not at 2:00 a.m., but maybe.

I don't really philosophically disagree with this type of advertising, but manipulating recording priorities is maybe going too far.

Brad


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Maybe I'm giving Dish and the receiver firmware too much credit... but since the screen capture shows this as a "manual timer"... isn't it possible that the process of pushing this timer to the customer involves checking his scheduled timers and setting the timer for a non-conflicting time?

It should be relatively easy, in my opinion, for the receiver to check its timer schedule and define this timer for a known non-conflicting time. Whether or not this is what happened is more fodder for debate, but I submit that it is at least possible... in which case this would be much adieu about nothing.


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

BillJ said:


> I haven't seen this yet on either of my 622s. Providing it doesn't (a) override one of my existing timers or (b) override something I'm watching live, it wouldn't bother me. If I see something in my recorded programs that I didn't setup I'll just delete it. I have more important things in my life to worry about. Like how I'm going to feed myself once the financial crisis has destroyed my net worth.


This timer looks like the free "on demand" content that gets downloaded in the wee hours of the morning. I actually have watched a few of these programs (no they wern't infomercials). They show up in a seperate area. Perhaps the 522 does not have this same area?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

JohnH said:


> Well, it seems to me as though there is a possible violation of the "do not change content" rule. Consider I may be watching one of my local channels when this timer fires and inserts different content into my viewing pleasure.


If it is recording on the tuner you're watching you'll get the two minute warning and can stop the channel change.


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## cj9788 (May 14, 2003)

I do not mind the auto tune ads, they show up as a locked event since I have ch 101 locked and hidden. I delete them without watching them. 

What really ticks me off are the commercials that they show during the previews at the movies. Last week they showed 12 diffrent commercials for cars coke ice cream ect. All those commercials I could not skip and had to watch. I can not show up after the previews because the theater fills up quickly. I spent over $100.00 for tickets food drink for me my wife and three kids, then have to be forced to watch commercials. What a cluster f**k. 

At least the E* stuff I am not forced to watch. It can be deleted IMO no harm no foul.


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

James Long said:


> If it is recording on the tuner you're watching you'll get the two minute warning and can stop the channel change.


You all are presenting work arounds for a problem which should not exist to begin with. I am getting tired of searching for program content amongst the commercials.


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## bartendress (Oct 8, 2007)

cj9788 said:


> I do not mind the auto tune ads, they show up as a locked event since I have ch 101 locked and hidden. I delete them without watching them.
> 
> What really ticks me off are the commercials that they show during the previews at the movies. Last week they showed 12 diffrent commercials for cars coke ice cream ect. All those commercials I could not skip and had to watch. I can not show up after the previews because the theater fills up quickly. I spent over $100.00 for tickets food drink for me my wife and three kids, then have to be forced to watch commercials. What a cluster f**k.
> 
> At least the E* stuff I am not forced to watch. It can be deleted IMO no harm no foul.


IAWTC: The commercials at the movie theater are not something you can work around without penalty (i.e.: show up late, get a s#!tty seat.).

I'd bet dollars to donuts that we spend more time fast-forwarding past commercials recorded within our DVR content than it takes to snuff out some promo material that DISH squeezed into my timers queue.

Having said that, if one of those promos takes priority over my latest epi of Terminator or Project Runway... I'm prepared to cut a b!tc#... :nono2:


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## Zero327 (Oct 10, 2006)

dingoringo48 said:


> It absolutely amazes me when topics like this come up and people defend the corporations with sentiments like, "So don't watch it...just delete it." I mean, really dude? Do you also tell people concerned about domestic wiretapping that if they haven't done anything wrong then they have nothing to worry about?
> 
> I know that I'm not "required" to watch it, the point I was making by starting the thread is that paying customers should not have ads pushed into the timer list. And I don't want Dish Network to decide what I should be watching and changing the channel to an advertisement for me.
> 
> ...


Fight the power! The Man must pay!!


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

James Long said:


> If it is recording on the tuner you're watching you'll get the two minute warning and can stop the channel change.


I have been known to be recording two movies at the same time during the 2:00 am time period shown on the screen grab. Since I'm not watching at 2:00 am I certainly hope I don't ever have an ad interrupt one of my recordings.:eek2:

Other than that, I get junk mail and junk email and even phone solicitors. So deleting a short recording is no big deal.


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## dingoringo48 (Nov 18, 2008)

inkahauts said:


> Oh man... did you just compare wiretapping with providers putting ads that you can watch on your DVR?


No, I didn't. I brought it up because Slamminc11's flippant response reminded me of the pervasive attitude in our society that basically says we have no power and those who do are going to do whatever they want, so we should just shut up and live with it. I don't understand how people can be so passive, even over a trivial matter like an auto tune timer. I pay Dish Network my hard-earned money so I can watch what I want to watch, not what they think I should be watching.

Again, this wasn't a recording on some separate part of the hard drive that I could ignore if I wanted to; they changed the channel from programming that I pay for to an advertisement that I did not agree to.



inkahauts said:


> And it is THEIR products that we are using, so they are giving us the option to not get these advertisments.. just don't get their service....I don't think that this is scum bag tactics... Its advertising, which is the way companies make money


Why are you thinking up ways to justify their practices? You should be arguing on behalf of yourself and your fellow citizens. It's like everyone becomes a rep for the company the minute they sign up. Why?



inkahauts said:


> In case you haven't heard, people will be able to order dominos pizza and have it delivered to your house... Is that just as bad? Seriously? Or would you consider that more of an additional feature? Where is the line between features/convineces and butting into out lives?


I'd consider that a feature, and a pretty cool one at that. And I'll tell you where the line is (or should be). Choice, it's all about choice. If I want that pizza, I _choose_ to order it through the Tivo box. Tivo doesn't get to send me a pizza simply 'cause it's dinnertime and then require me to explain after the fact why I might not want it.



SaltiDawg said:


> WTF? Where is this written? May Ads be included with your monthly bill? How 'bout in the Newspaper that you pay for? On the Cereal box from which you get your Oatmeal?
> I love it when people make up rules.


Another person arguing against their own interests. Since you brought it up, why _are_ ads included with the monthly bill, in the newspaper, or on the cereal box? Just because they can be? I mean it's not as if any of the things you listed are free services which are subsidized by advertising. I pay plenty for my monthly service, I pay for the newspaper, I pay for the cereal. So why should those companies get to double dip? And why do you feel the need to defend them for it?



JohnH said:


> Well, it seems to me as though there is a possible violation of the "do not change content" rule. Consider I may be watching one of my local channels when this timer fires and inserts different content into my viewing pleasure.


Finally someone who gets it. Thank you, sir.



Bradtothebone said:


> Notice the priority on the recording in the screenshot (*1 of 94*). In theory, it definitely could override something you have set to record. Maybe not at 2:00 a.m., but maybe.


Yes, it was definitely set to number 1 priority. I had nothing else set for around that time so there's no way to know if it would have overridden an existing timer. I just assumed it would have because why else would they make it number 1?

HDMe, what you proposed is possible. There's no way for me to know.

Michael P, the 522 does have a section titled "Movies & More" which I believe is for what you described, but I've never looked in there so I can't say for sure.

I know it's the easiest thing in the world to skip or delete a timer, but the whole idea of the provider deciding what we should watch just gets under my skin. A few posts up, cj9788 told the story about his family at the theater having to sit through a dozen commercials before the movie even started. Our family goes through the same thing every couple of weeks. And do you know what I think about while their clever little ads play? I think about how when I was a kid and went to the movies they didn't have ads like that. But then one day there was a single commercial. And then two, and then three, and now the whole experience is like one big commercial - that no one seems to enjoy, by the way. So maybe if more people would have made a stink about it back then, our kids could go to the movies and be treated as young citizens instead of just consumers.


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

It is just another step toward "commercial" television becoming totally *commercial*.

BTW: Who was that guy in that show? Try figuring that one out now. 

"Somone has placed a logo over my face."


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

_"Oh man... did you just compare wiretapping with providers putting ads that you can watch on your DVR?"_



dingoringo48 said:


> No, I didn't. I brought it up because .... Rant redacted.


Your are 100% guilty as charged. Instead of going on and on with whining *here*, why not contact Dish and complain.


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## TulsaOK (Feb 24, 2004)

Bill R said:


> What recordings are you referring to? The recordings only take place if you press select and choose to record the program for that advertisement popup. If you turn off the "enhancements" you won't see the popups at all.


The recordings that Dish puts on your DVR by creating timers. I wasn't referring to popups.


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## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

dingoringo48 said:


> I noticed today that there was a new timer on my 522. It's an auto tune timer for, I assume, a commercial/infomercial. Very uncool to force ads and timers on paying customers. I pay plenty for the service, I don't see why they need to double dip and sell us to advertisers. Here's a screen grab:


Dish has done this a couple times in the past. As long as they don't do it frequently and it always has the lowest possible priority, I don't care. Of course if it starts rolling off my unviewed recordings or becomes frequent than I might start caring.


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

dingoringo48 said:


> ...So maybe if more people would have made a stink about it back then, our kids could go to the movies and be treated as young citizens instead of just consumers.


Back when I went to movies, I would regularly complain to theater managers about the intrusive on-screen ads, but I knew mine was but a voice in the wilderness. Then, over time I put together a nice home theater, subbed to every premium movie channel west of the constellation Orion, and haven't set foot inside a movie in a theater in over eight years.

Can't afford it, you say? To the contrary, the money I have not spent on movie tickets, refreshments and gasoline has more than offset the cost of my HT gear and premium movie channel subscription costs.

Those of you who willingly spend your hard earned money on overpriced theater movies and continue to put up with rude audiences and intrusive on-screen ads don't have room for complaint -- you're endorsing a system that throws those unpleasant conditions in your family's face every time you plunk your money down at the box office.

Until you decide to do what many of us here have already done and set up your own home theater in lieu of going out to the theater, you are supporting a system that will continue to abuse you and your family and leaves you with no room for complaint.

The only way to successfully beat back those who would attempt to force such undesirable conditions upon you is to vote with your pocketbook -- and your feet!

I beat the system and so can you! :bonk1:


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## neilo (Aug 7, 2006)

I saw this latest thing when I was reviewing items for the upcoming week and I just changed it to skip.


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

HMMM... never seen one.

I'll have to look.


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## paja (Oct 23, 2006)

Nick said:


> Back when I went to movies, I would regularly complain to theater managers about the intrusive on-screen ads, but I knew mine was but a voice in the wilderness. Then, over time I put together a nice home theater, subbed to every premium movie channel west of the constellation Orion, and haven't set foot inside a movie in a theater in over eight years.
> 
> Can't afford it, you say? To the contrary, the money I have not spent on movie tickets, refreshments and gasoline has more than offset the cost of my HT gear and premium movie channel subscription costs.
> 
> ...


A special mention for the IDIOTS who insist on taking calls while the movie is going on. Count me and my wife as two who use to go to the movies 10-20 times a year. This year the only movie we went to was Iron Man. A home theatre is so much nicer.


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## dingoringo48 (Nov 18, 2008)

SaltiDawg said:


> Instead of going on and on with whining *here*, why not contact Dish and complain.


Because there's power in numbers, and I'm clearly alone in being bothered by what Dish did. Out of their millions of subs, I have a sinking feeling I'd be the only one in America to actually register a complaint.

As soon as I noticed the timer, I came on here to see what other people were saying about it (look at the time in the screen grab and the time of my original post - half an hour later). To my surprise there were no other posts about it so I figured people might not have even realized what Dish had done. So I decided instead of just ghosting (as I've done here for a long time), I'd register and post a screen grab to let others know about it.

Instead of fellow posters saying, "Yeah, Dish shouldn't do that, we're bothered by it too," I found people actually defending Dish and trying to take _me_ down a peg - incredible how indoctrinated people have become to the advertising culture.

Nick, I absolutely loved your post and wish I was as strong as you, but when the kids are dying to see the latest High School/Cartoon/Musical crap-fest, the wife and I have a very hard time saying no.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

If it was a constant interruption ... recordings every week ... it probably would annoy more people. As it stands these recordings are so rare that I honestly can't remember the last one that I got. It was years ago.

Annoying, yes. Common, no.


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## Polardog (Mar 5, 2008)

Nick said:


> Back when I went to movies, I would regularly complain to theater managers about the intrusive on-screen ads, but I knew mine was but a voice in the wilderness. Then, over time I put together a nice home theater, subbed to every premium movie channel west of the constellation Orion, and haven't set foot inside a movie in a theater in over eight years.
> 
> Can't afford it, you say? To the contrary, the money I have not spent on movie tickets, refreshments and gasoline has more than offset the cost of my HT gear and premium movie channel subscription costs.
> 
> ...


Thank you Nick. Couldn't have said it better myself.
I haven't set foot in a movie theatre in 10 years for this and other reasons. Rude audience and $4.00 candy bars among those reasons.
I set up a great home theatre and subbed to all the premium movie channels. I DVR alot of these movies then record onto DVD's for future viewing. I wait patiently for mainstream movies to arrive in retail stores.
I do not watch any commercial TV in real time. I set the timer on my 612 and then watch skipping through relentless commercials. The only exception is the news (CNN, Fox or whatever). I do watch those channels in real time and grit my teeth getting through 3 minutes of programming followed by 2 or 3 minutes of hyped up commercials. 
I have not had the pleasure of Dish inserting an infomercial on my 612's timer yet. On initial install of my 612 there were 2 short info timers related to my new HD service. That was in Feb this year. Nothing since.
I am single so I do understand that making this sort of stand in a family with children might not be so easy.
What I do know is that I pay alot of cash for alot of commercial content and I don't like it.


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## Slamminc11 (Jan 28, 2005)

dingoringo48 said:


> Because there's power in numbers, and I'm clearly alone in being bothered by what Dish did. Out of their millions of subs, I have a sinking feeling I'd be the only one in America to actually register a complaint.
> 
> As soon as I noticed the timer, I came on here to see what other people were saying about it (look at the time in the screen grab and the time of my original post - half an hour later). To my surprise there were no other posts about it so I figured people might not have even realized what Dish had done. So I decided instead of just ghosting (as I've done here for a long time), I'd register and post a screen grab to let others know about it.
> 
> ...


To me it's not that big of a deal. If it is to you fine, but bottom line you are leasing receivers/programming from them and have agreed by such to allow them to send things to you, be it in the mail, thru email, or thru your DVR. If I get an ad from Bed Bath and Beyond in the mail, I throw it in the can. When I get an ad in my email box from the "get viagra for $1" ad people I throw it in the trash. When I get an ad on my DVR, I delete it. Simple.
And until there are 25 hours or 50 hours filling up your DVR with ads, then I don't see many people giving a crap.


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## FastNOC (Sep 11, 2007)

Nick said:


> Back when I went to movies, I would regularly complain to theater managers about the intrusive on-screen ads, but I knew mine was but a voice in the wilderness. Then, over time I put together a nice home theater, subbed to every premium movie channel west of the constellation Orion, and haven't set foot inside a movie in a theater in over eight years.
> 
> Can't afford it, you say? To the contrary, the money I have not spent on movie tickets, refreshments and gasoline has more than offset the cost of my HT gear and premium movie channel subscription costs.
> 
> ...


This is great. If you don't mind waiting 6 to 12 months to watch a movie that's coming out this week. And since the movie theaters are still filling seats it's pretty clear that many people aren't interested in waiting. This same conversation took place when video rentals started. and just like now it doesn't matter. people want to see things that are new when they are new. I don't know why. Hell I don't even watch live events when they play. I dvr them so i can skip commercials. But lots of people, in fact the vast majority of people, don't wait. If they did there would be no theaters.

what amazes me is that people are so self centered they say it's intrusive to put advertisements in movies. That is incredible. it's before the movie plays for christ sake. it's not like they're interrupting the movie, and intrusive? are you kidding? that's a pretty loose representation of that statement.

I'm self centered too. That's why i record the shows I like. But i think it's a no brainer to accept advertisements before the movie. I mean, it's ALWAYS been this way. Unless you don't consider those dancing popcorn buckets and hot dog weiner cartoons advertising. Or is that non-intrusive somehow?


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

Slamminc11 said:


> so don't watch it. They aren't requiring you to have to watch it so just delete it.


Sub to U-verse. You need two hands just to use their stupid remote


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## jsk (Dec 27, 2006)

My wife thought it was something that I recorded. I'm glad that she didn't think that this was a hint for what I want for Christmas and buy one.

I think it should have been recorded under "TV Entertainment" or add a new category for "Advertisments." Also, this timer should be the lowest priority. Sometimes, I will skip a show during prime time knowing that it is repeated overnight.


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

dingoringo48 said:


> Because there's power in numbers, and I'm clearly alone in being bothered by what Dish did. ...
> 
> As soon as I noticed the timer, I came on here to see what other people were saying about it (look at the time in the screen grab and the time of my original post - half an hour later). To my surprise there were no other posts about it so I figured people might not have even realized what Dish had done. So I decided instead of just ghosting (as I've done here for a long time), I'd register and post a screen grab to let others know about it.
> 
> Instead of fellow posters saying, "Yeah, Dish shouldn't do that, we're bothered by it too," I found people actually defending Dish and trying to take _me_ down a peg - incredible how indoctrinated people have become to the advertising culture....


Well I checked several times and I did not see the recording on my 622. Perhaps only SD DVR's are getting this "commercial" or I just don't see it in the extensive list of recordings on my DVR (I have over 270 events).


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

Worry-warts!


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## dgeffs (Nov 20, 2006)

dingoringo48 said:


> Because there's power in numbers, and I'm clearly alone in being bothered by what Dish did. Out of their millions of subs, I have a sinking feeling I'd be the only one in America to actually register a complaint.


Nope, Ive registered a complaint and their reply has been silence. It does appear we are a nation of sheep who blindly follow whatever is dealt us without regard for the long term consequences. If we don't complain about this it is going to get worse and then where will you be? It's just like the stupid ads that pop up on the bottom of the screen on some channels. They used to be fairly unobtrusive but they are getting more prevalent. Not only are there more of them but now they are getting larger. I saw one last week that took up a full 1/3 of the screen. I suppose this isn't annoying to anyone except of few nuts like us who object to a constant barrage of advertising.

It's going to get worse if we just accept it as the norm. I am fully willing to cancel Dish because of this and tell them why once I find a reasonable alternative. As far as the movies are concerned how will you feel when they start breaking up the movie with adverstisments. Seems like most of the people here will just say oh well, that's the way it is and there isn't anything we can do about it.

The funny thing is we have the power to stop these things in their tracks but refuse to do so because we are lazy and just willing to accept what we are dealt. It isn't a huge deal to delete a timer or a recording but that's not the point. They shouldn't be doing this in the first place and it's up to us to make that clear to them.


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## olds403 (Nov 20, 2007)

Found a slingbox ad recorded on my 722 the other day, I know I didn't record it. Deleted it without watching it. As long as it doesn't interfere with my recordings I guess I don't have a problem just deleting them.


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## dishguy77 (Oct 9, 2008)

Keep in mind that they lost a large amount of liquidity Q3 and at the report both the CFO and CEO hinted that certain projects may be postponed until they can get the cash to do what they want with them. I would believe that the "project" is the 700kHz plans, but it could extend to other products (922?). This add makes me believe that they're pushing what they have in an effort to make some cash flow. If the current 800-number hold times are any sign, they're either getting a mass of subs or record churn... you decide which. :lol: 

In the end it's one add, produced internally, and it's easy to find and delete. It was at the top of the list. Maybe they even sold a few sling boxes as a result.


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## TulsaOK (Feb 24, 2004)

dgeffs said:


> The funny thing is we have the power to stop these things in their tracks but refuse to do so because we are lazy and just willing to accept what we are dealt.


Or, we feel that this isn't the most important thing in our lives to worry about. If it is in your case, I envy you. I wish I had your life. I've got a few more things in my life that take priority over a four minute recording on a DVR that I didn't schedule.


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

TulsaOK said:


> Or, we feel that this isn't the most important thing in our lives to worry about. If it is in your case, I envy you. I wish I had your life. I've got a few more things in my life that take priority over a four minute recording on a DVR that I didn't schedule.


+1


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

dgeffs said:


> I am fully willing to cancel Dish because of this and tell them why once I find a reasonable alternative.


As noted earlier, this is an industry problem. You will not get away from it by changing carriers. The ads will be there. Perhaps not as a forced download but every savvy provider is looking for a way to make more money off of the service they sell you.

With over 13 million customers I don't see "I got an ad downloaded to my receiver" become the #1 reason for leaving. But they are your dollars and you are welcome to take them elsewhere.

If we were to take a poll I expect that "I'm leaving" would barely get votes (and even less actual follow through). Most would vote as expressed in this thread ... "an occasional ad is OK". When before this SlingBox ad was the last time an ad was force?


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## Blowgun (May 23, 2008)

James Long said:


> When before this SlingBox ad was the last time an ad was force?


This forced ad was posted on 11-17-08, 10:52 PM by dingoringo48, then there was the forced ad posted on 12-09-08, 12:21 AM by John H. a little over 3 weeks appart. Seems the contractions are getting closer.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

The same ad to different users ... just not all queued up on the same night.

When was the last time that those people received an ad prior to the Slingbox one?


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## jerry downing (Mar 7, 2004)

Is it possible that these timers can only fire when the receiver is turned off? If that is so, then they cannot interfere with normal TV watching. I believe that they check for existing timers as well.


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## Blowgun (May 23, 2008)

James Long said:


> The same ad to different users ... just not all queued up on the same night.


I can understand something as potentially problematic as firmware being distributed in batches as to minimize unintentional effects. I don't understand the point in spreading out an ad, unless it was for the opposite purpose.



James Long said:


> When was the last time that those people received an ad prior to the Slingbox one?


I wouldn't know what others have received. I think a better question is; will this continue and to what degree?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Blowgun said:


> I can understand something as potentially problematic as firmware being distributed in batches as to minimize unintentional effects. I don't understand the point in spreading out an ad, unless it was for the opposite purpose.


The opposite purpose would be to intentionally maximize effects? Wow ... do you really think DISH Network hates their customers?

Another reason to stagger deployment of software AND advertising is to lessen the load on CSRs. Over 4 million customers receiving an advertisement on the same night with even a 0.1% complaint rate is a lot of calls. It is better to spread them out.

Phasing also allows DISH to program the ad at different times for different customers. Apparently at least one error was made where one customer got the ad at 12:02am instead of later at night ... I'm surprised we have not seen more complaints from people who got the add at that time. The lack of other reports leads be to believe that there was an error in setting that particular customer's timer.



> I wouldn't know what others have received. I think a better question is; will this continue and to what degree?


I don't know the future ... I do know the past. When I first installed my 622 it immediately downloaded two 5 minute videos ... one for Club DISH and a second explaining the use of the DVR. That was nearly three years ago. No other timers have been forced to my receiver.

Prior to that on my 501 I received similar clips ... a Club DISH ad four years ago and a 'how to use your DVR' when Name Based Recording was added.
The Club DISH ad was discussed here.

Past performance doesn't guarantee future actions but it has been more than four years. This isn't the "weekly spam" ... this is DISH communicating to their customers on rare occasion.


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

The only possible problem I see with these "involuntary" recordings is that they might cause the hard drive to fill up sooner (if you are near the maximum capacity as I have been on several occasions). BTW I finally got my Sllingbox ad on my 622 the other day. I watched it then deleted it. End of story.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

I'm having trouble filling my hard drive. The readout says that I have 91 minutes of HD and 10hr 5min of SD space available ... yet when I record an hour of HD the HD available count doesn't lose an hour (closer to 35 minutes the last time I checked).

I keep my hard drive trimmed back for what I expect to record based on these estimates ... which means I usually have twice as much space available in reality. A four minute SlingBox ad is nothing. I can't imaging running a HD so close to full that four minutes is a killer.


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## dishlover2 (Aug 24, 2008)

dingoringo48 said:


> I noticed today that there was a new timer on my 522. It's an auto tune timer for, I assume, a commercial/infomercial. Very uncool to force ads and timers on paying customers. I pay plenty for the service, I don't see why they need to double dip and sell us to advertisers. Here's a screen grab:
> 
> View attachment 16376


they could have approached that another way putting that as video on demand under tv entertainment


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## rphillips187 (Oct 14, 2007)

To those freaking out because your DVR is recording a 4-5 minute commercial in the middle of the night every once in a while...don't you have anything better to complain about?

I don't know if you noticed, but times are tough right now. The economy is down and revenue is suffering. If Dish has to hedge an earnings drop by putting a few advertisements on my DVR in order to pass less rate increases to their customers then I am totally for it as long as I'm not being forced to watch it and it's not interfering with my actual recordings. It could be much worse; anyone used a Comcast receiver lately? Comcast has, for years, put huge advertisements all over the place on their receivers. The last straw for me was when an entire row on my program guide was removed to make room for a billboard at the bottom.

Also, I found the Slingbox advertisement to be informative. I might actually have to buy one now.


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## Blowgun (May 23, 2008)

James Long said:


> The opposite purpose would be to intentionally maximize effects?


Yes, they intentionally maximized the effect of the forced ad since it has already been demonstrated that there were less effective alternatives to getting the same ad out to customers.



James Long said:


> Wow ... do you really think DISH Network hates their customers?


No, I believe that DISH does some inept things from time to time and the forced ad interruption demonstrates a more recent example.



James Long said:


> Another reason to stagger deployment of software AND advertising is to lessen the load on CSRs. Over 4 million customers receiving an advertisement on the same night with even a 0.1% complaint rate is a lot of calls. It is better to spread them out.


After reading some of the replies about this issue, you would think they would be calling to thank them and could they please have another. 



James Long said:


> Phasing also allows DISH to program the ad at different times for different customers. Apparently at least one error was made where one customer got the ad at 12:02am instead of later at night ... I'm surprised we have not seen more complaints from people who got the add at that time. The lack of other reports leads be to believe that there was an error in setting that particular customer's timer.


Maybe DISH just hates that particular customer. :lol:



James Long said:


> Past performance doesn't guarantee future actions but it has been more than four years. This isn't the "weekly spam" ... this is DISH communicating to their customers on rare occasion.


However, it would appear that DISH doesn't share that opinion if they were concerned enough to stagger the forced ad. :grin:

Anyway, I never received the forced ad and probably never will. As they use to do on Monster House, I'll just stamp a *DONE* on it.


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## tm22721 (Nov 8, 2002)

All media providers are struggling to make their numbers as advertisers pull back.

If these hard times get even harder we will see more and more aggressive marketing.


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## peak_reception (Feb 10, 2008)

dgeffs said:


> It's just like the stupid ads that pop up on the bottom of the screen on some channels. They used to be fairly unobtrusive but they are getting more prevalent. Not only are there more of them but now they are getting larger. I saw one last week that took up a full 1/3 of the screen. I suppose this isn't annoying to anyone except of few nuts like us who object to a constant barrage of advertising.


 dgeffs, I haven't received the slingbox ad in question. Maybe this is Dish's way of creating "buzz"  . But the other trend you mention is worth even more concern in my opinion. It used to be that ads were limited to interludes between programming. Now it's forcing its way into the programs themselves in the form of banners, pop-ups, product placement, etc. That's where I draw the line and hopefuly there are enough of us to resist and push back. Ads within the dvr are a bad sign too but I haven't seen any yet except for those Dish channels which you can (in most cases) get rid of.

p.s. aside: Bartendress, seeing as you are a fan of Project Runway... did you find last season's avalanche of commodity immersion distasteful? I mean, come on, "Designers, you will be creating a look which reflects the new Saturn Ion." "Designers, you will be creating a look which incorporates any/all of the Hershey chocolate packaging you can scoop up in your hands in the next 15 minutes." Enough Is Enough! If you care to discuss, start a thread in the programming forum and I will chime in


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

peak_reception said:


> ... It used to be that ads were limited to interludes between programming. Now it's forcing its way into the programs themselves in the form of banners, pop-ups, product placement, etc. That's where I draw the line and hopefuly there are enough of us to resist and push back. ...


While you have always been free to get up and leave the room during the commercials, this was factored into the model for pricing and placing commercials.

With the technology we have available to us now, we can easily skip thru the commercials and I suspect many of us do so.

Do *you* skip thru the commercials without seeing them?

Do you believe that the sponsor of your favorite show needs to have his product touted in some manner so as to cause some reasonable share of the viewing audience to actually view his spiel? If not, then why would a sponsor pay anything if his pitch is not going to be seen.

While I don't want to see obvious product placement ads, I can't very well whine about it if I am going to skip the commercials with my DVR.


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## peak_reception (Feb 10, 2008)

SaltiDawg said:


> Do *you* skip thru the commercials without seeing them?


 *Yes.*



> Do you believe that the sponsor of your favorite show needs to have his product touted in some manner so as to cause some reasonable share of the viewing audience to actually view his spiel? If not, then why would a sponsor pay anything if his pitch is not going to be seen.


 People who never paid attention to ads before DVRs are the same people who now have DVRs and skip through them like a hot knife through butter. We're NOT a rewarding audience for advertisers unless you're just talking aggregate eyeballs, including *No Sale* eyeballs. We never were and never will be rewarding to advertisers no matter how aggressive they get. The only thing that's changed is the _ease_ of skipping commercials. A good thing for us, otherwise nothing different. Product placement _is_ different though.

Shoving something in front of people so that they're forced to view it (like product placement inside of programs) is counterproductive imo. It makes many people mad and that's not going to translate into sales or good PR.[/QUOTE]


> While I don't want to see obvious product placement ads, I can't very well whine about it if I am going to skip the commercials with my DVR.


 The difference is that traditional commercials have _always_ been optional while product placement within programs are forced on you. A big difference.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

I never really noticed what products were being used on "I Love Lucy", except perhaps "Vitameatavegamin".:sure: 

So I'm sure I miss alot of product placement just like I didn't watch commercials and now skip commercials.


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## peak_reception (Feb 10, 2008)

phrelin said:


> I never really noticed what products were being used on "I Love Lucy", except perhaps "Vitameatavegamin".:sure:
> 
> So I'm sure I miss alot of product placement just like I didn't watch commercials and now skip commercials.


 That's because it's just getting started. Boil the frogs slowly.... If you watched the last season of Project Runway you would have a better idea of what's coming soon to a television near you. Two episodes were completely sold over to a Sponsor to showcase their products. Saturn and Hershey. 60 minute commercials! And no you couldn't miss it or ignore it.

"So don't watch it anymore." I won't.

The little slingbox ad is trifling by comparison.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

So ... are we now off topic?


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## peak_reception (Feb 10, 2008)

James Long said:


> So ... are we now off topic?


 yeah, but it's _similar_ at least 

:backtotop


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## HobbyTalk (Jul 14, 2007)

peak_reception said:


> That's because it's just getting started. Boil the frogs slowly.... If you watched the last season of Project Runway you would have a better idea of what's coming soon to a television near you. Two episodes were completely sold over to a Sponsor to showcase their products. Saturn and Hershey. 60 minute commercials! And no you couldn't miss it or ignore it.


Nothing new really. The Apprentice has had that for a number of years. For example, in the 2004 season they made advertisments for Marquis Jet. Some episodes of Survivor had brand name foods for rewards. It's been in Sports for 10 years (see that Gatorade on the sidelines) or more. What about the Nike swish on almost every uniform in every sport? If you don't want to watch this on TV then I would suspect you don't watch much any more


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## MattDL (Aug 18, 2008)

I can't imagine by how much their advertising revenue has decreased due to the advent of the DVR. The number of eyeballs on paid ad spots has to have dropped exponentially and I am sure continues to do so. They need to make up for lost ad revenue somehow...


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I have long argued that marketing doesn't work as much as marketing people would like you to think. They need to justify their own jobs, so of course the marketing dept will claim marketing significantly impacts bottom line... but some products clearly benefit from good marketing more than others.

A brand new product can benefit exponentially from a good marketing campaign that lets people know it exists. A forgotten, but long-existing, product can similarly be revived... But an already popular and well-selling product might very well be losing money due to unneeded marketing efforts.

As for commercials vs DVRs... They couldn't prove we weren't watching commercials before, so naturally marketing folks would try and claim every viewer of a program for their commercial spots... but with DVR data proving you skip a commercial, they can't count all those numbers anymore.

Doesn't mean our viewing habits have changed at all... they just have a better way of measuring it now than before the DVR.


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## Blowgun (May 23, 2008)

The big networks could start by making shows people want to see. The gold statues aren't going to them as much, and there is a good reason for that.


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## peak_reception (Feb 10, 2008)

HobbyTalk said:


> Nothing new really. The Apprentice has had that for a number of years. For example, in the 2004 season they made advertisments for Marquis Jet. Some episodes of Survivor had brand name foods for rewards. It's been in Sports for 10 years (see that Gatorade on the sidelines) or more. What about the Nike swish on almost every uniform in every sport? If you don't want to watch this on TV then I would suspect you don't watch much any more


 I've started a thread about product placement in the TV Shows forum including a reply to the above comment. Feel free to join in there if you care for more


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## dgeffs (Nov 20, 2006)

My whole point for disagreeing with the ad placement in our DVR's was that advertising appears to be getting more agressive day by day. Don't you think things are getting a bit ridiculous? Advertisers will continue to intrude upon us in every conceivable way until they realize we are fed up and aren't going to take it any more. 

I have satellite radio in my car and don't ever have to listen to an ad. I choose to do this because I'm willing to pay to get rid of ads and now the OTA broadcasters have driven away another customer. I'd like to do the same thing with TV but that service isn't here yet. 

Sorry, but I'm annoyed at the sheer volume of ads not to mention the stupidity of most aimed at me every day. The people responsible for product ads are consumate liars at best and I've gotten to the point where I don't beleive any information they attempt to give me. 

The more we accept every little intrusion the more they will bombard us.


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

I have seen one - the volume in not too sheer.

This is free enterprise - create a product (or buy someone else's) and sell it to a constituency.

If you do not want your subscription rates to go up you had better realize that alternate revenue sources are a plus to us not a minus and get over your petty annoyance that someone might make a buck.

GOOD GRIEF!!


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## HobbyTalk (Jul 14, 2007)

dgeffs said:


> I have satellite radio in my car and don't ever have to listen to an ad. I choose to do this because I'm willing to pay to get rid of ads and now the OTA broadcasters have driven away another customer. I'd like to do the same thing with TV but that service isn't here yet.


I have XM and used to hear a short (5-10 sec.) "you are listening to XM channel so&so) maybe 3 or 4 times an hour. Now since they mearged with Sirius I hear 30 seconds Sirius/XM promos maybe 6 times an hour. I'm about to drop them, at least the Dish CD music channels have NO interruptions at all.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

dgeffs said:


> I have satellite radio in my car and don't ever have to listen to an ad. I choose to do this because I'm willing to pay to get rid of ads and now the OTA broadcasters have driven away another customer. I'd like to do the same thing with TV but that service isn't here yet.


Make sure you compare apples and oranges. When you subscribe to satellite radio, you are not getting the same radio stations without commercials. You are getting specific non-commercial radio stations.

I can't, for example, subscribe to XM/Sirius and get my local radio stations without adverts. I get a specific group of satellite radio stations.

Similarly... you can subscribe to premium channels on cable/satellite like HBO, SHO, MAX, etc. and get just movies without commercials.

What you're not likely ever going to be able to do is pay for a special feed of TNT or USA or NBC that has the exact same programming with commercials removed.


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## Blowgun (May 23, 2008)

Is it still possible to get commercial free NBC off a BUD? The last time I watched the Tonight Show on NBC from a BUD, and admittedly this was quite awhile ago, every time they took a commercial break they would fade-in a slide while you heard the band play throughout. When they came out of the commercial break they would fade-out the slide back to the show with the band still playing.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

When our local NBC forgets to air commercials or mistimes a break there is a black screen with an NBC logo morphing in the middle.

A quick search finds NBC feeds on AMC1 at 103 and other locations. The main feeds are encrypted.

(HD is on AMC 18 at 105 ... apparently clear?)


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## Blowgun (May 23, 2008)

Yeah, it was quite some time ago. I happened to take a friend over to someones house and they had the BUD. I only went there that one time. I can't remember the exact time of day it was, could have been 5:30 pm. I think KNBC Los Angeles was uplinking the Tonight Show back to the Network in New York. It was fascinating watching the Tonight Show so early... that and the remote studio links. Some of those remotes were quite hilarious watching the talent scramble to get in front of the camera before going live. 

I also learned that very remote locations have one uplink and that was shared among all the reporters. You'd watch this locked off camera and people walking around in the background. Then someone would step in front of the camera. You'd hear, "Blah blah blah, Ken back to you in the studio" and "Blah blah blah, Suzy back to you in the studio" and so forth as each reporter took their turn in front of the same camera.

Makes me want to get a BUD. :lol:


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