# Are any receivers responsive?



## stroh (Oct 18, 2004)

I'm thinking about leaving DirecTV after many years as a customer because I can't stand the poor response of the receiver to remote button presses. I have two HR20-100's. Almost every time I press a button on the remote I have to hit it several times before it actually responds. I have changed the batteries, reset the receiver, etc. Overall I'm happy with the picture quality and programming, but the crappy hardware is really getting to me. 

I have considered trying to get an HR34/C31 and see if that works. The thing with this solution is that I don't feel I should have to pay to have substandard performance fixed at my expense and I don't see too many people on here getting all new equipment installed for free. Then if it doesn't work, I'm stuck for another two years with the same annoying problem and that doesn't even count in the WAF aspect.

I may give Uverse a try. They are always bugging me to switch. I would save a bit on my monthly bill as well. If it doesn't work out, I can come back to DirecTV and probably get the HR34 and install free as a "new" customer. It's just such a hassle to change everything and probably find new problems over there. 

Anyone have any ideas?


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Try this first.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=184693

One thing to keep in mind on UVerse, there is a limit of the number of HD streams you can have, and that number depends on where your house is compared to their equipment.

I have an HR34 and am satisfied with it. However I don't change channels that often.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

You possibly have IR interference.
Try this: Use the TV remote and turn the TV off. Now use the DTV remote and change channels up or down and pay attention to the power light on the front of the receiver. Does it blink each time you press the button ? If yes, Turn the TV back on. Is it on a different channel than when you started ?
If the above is true, try putting a piece of Blue Painters Tape over the sensor for the IR ( it is just to the right of the power light on the receiver ) or a piece of Scotch tape and then color the tape dark with a charpy or marks a lot.
I have done this to all 3 of my units and did away with this problem.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

It is also possible that the remote is just worn out.
If you have a laptop with a camera or I have heard a smart phone works also. Start the camera so that you can see yourself on the screen. Point the remote at the camera and press buttons on the remote. You can see the IR lights work with each button press using the camera. I did this with one remote and found that I had worn out several of the most frequently used buttons.


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## Rickt1962 (Jul 17, 2012)

I have the Hr22-100 have 3 remotes in RF mode turned off the code checker. And have hard rebooted it. And mine is running very slow. I hit the guide and it hangs for a minute or 2 ! 

You cant channel surf like the old days with Cable ! Digital is 10 times slower compared to the old anolog days !


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## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

I switched to FiOS over a year ago because of the slow channel change on my HR20-700.

Big improvement plus better PQ, but after 13 months I started getting a similar slow response on my FiOS HD DVR. Called support Friday afternoon and they shipped a replacement DVR (same model, looks new) which arrived Saturday morning. Swapped units and the problem has gone away. I didn't have to go through a bunch of tests, either. CSR was willing to ship the unit immediately after I explained the problem to her.


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## Scott Kocourek (Jun 13, 2009)

Rickt1962 said:


> I have the Hr21-100 have 3 remotes in RF mode turned off the code checker. And have hard rebooted it. And mine is running very slow. I hit the guide and it hangs for a minute or 2 !
> 
> You cant channel surf like the old days with Cable ! Digital is 10 times slower compared to the old anolog days !


There is more to switching a channel on satellite, one channel to the next may be on a different transponder or satellite, then add in possible resolution changes and things seem slow. It's really the nature of the beast but that's not to say it won't ever be faster.


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

stroh's problems are not due to the issues listed here, which are either side issues or excuses.

Many of us, probably most of us, have these same issues. We don't all have RF interference. The fact that it is sat or digital is also not a factor, as DISH and UVerse do not have this problem. They also must deal with resolution changes, and that seems not to faze them. Changing to a different transponder or sat is instantaneous as far as the switching part goes; that is no more sophisticated than latching a dumb relay might be.

But on the HD DVR+, it's not the switching that takes time, its the lack of or delay of the response to the commands we send it to switch, or scroll the guide, or almost everything else. Why? Bad, poorly-written unwanted-cheapass-feature-bloated software trying to keep up with underpowered hardware. Period. And DTV seems to think that's OK.

If you do not have these problems, then good for you, but let's not pretend the rest of us are a small minority that should not count. The only thing that should take time when operating a DVR is channel acquisition, which should average less than two seconds and is due to the nature of MPEG4 compression.

The bottom line is that in the performance department (and they are otherwise very reliable and feature-laden and among the best DVRs available)* DTV DVRs just blow. Out loud.* DTV needs to build a better DVR, even if they have to completely start over to cure these performance problems.

Having the best features and the best interface is important, and all you have to do is look at the outcry at the death of Tivo to understand just how important, echoes of which still reverberate all over the forums. DTV has finally claimed that title, and good for them.

But performance is also important, and DTV has done absolutely nothing in the 5+ years we have been saddled with this DVR line, about it, other than to make it worse with every up rev. A wonderful US President that shall go nameless almost lost his job due to a perception of not doing enough to solve problems, just two weeks ago. And he only has had 3 1/2 years, not 5+. *Maybe it's time to vote DTV out of office.*

stroh is just one of what may become a flood of folks that are fed up. If your DVR is slow, that gives the impression, however unfair that may be, that your service is antiquated and poorly implemented. Not many of us feel comfortable cutting a $100 check or better each and every month to a service that we perceive to be antiquated or poorly implemented.

stroh is not really the exception here, he may be representative of the rule. I don't like that either, but it doesn't help much to succumb to Stockholm Syndrome and try to convince yourselves that this issue is not out there or that we can afford to live like this. We can't, and it is. Escape your captor; don't rationalize that this is just how things should normally be. Power to the people. Rise up, mad as hell, and say we're not going to take this, anymore!


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Scott Kocourek said:


> It's really the nature of the beast but that's not to say it won't ever be faster.


If it had always been that way, you might have an argument. That the channel changing rate started out at an acceptable level and has degraded significantly over time takes the physics out of the equation and places the blame on things that DIRECTV has (or hasn't) done.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

This conversations seems oddly familiar!:lol:


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## ThomasM (Jul 20, 2007)

TomCat said:


> stroh's problems are not due to the issues listed here, which are either side issues or excuses.
> 
> Many of us, probably most of us, have these same issues. We don't all have RF interference. The fact that it is sat or digital is also not a factor, as DISH and UVerse do not have this problem. They also must deal with resolution changes, and that seems not to faze them. Changing to a different transponder or sat is instantaneous as far as the switching part goes; that is no more sophisticated than latching a dumb relay might be.


I get a daily reminder of how awful the HD DVR's are even though I don't have HD from DirecTV. I DO have an R22 which is really an HD DVR and I also have 2 R15-300's. When I watch TV in my kitchen with the R15 it responds INSTANTLY to remote commands, the guide whizzes around with every push of the remote. I select a show and in less than a second I'm watching the recording.

Then I settle in for an evening of TV in the living room with the lethargic R22. I press GUIDE and sit and yawn a few times-then it appears. When I select a show in my playlist and hit PLAY once again I sit there waiting and waiting. After watching a show I press DELETE and it scratches it's head for 10 seconds wondering what to do. Remember, this has nothing to do with HD-the two DVR's are doing exactly the same thing accessing the same SD satellite feeds and recordings.

This is why I haven't upgraded to HD from DirecTV...and won't anytime soon.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Amazing how four of the most dissatisfied users—well, including one who's not even a DIRECTV® sub— showed up in this thread. 

Do any of you have any constructive ideas?


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Laxguy said:


> Amazing how four of the most dissatisfied users-well, including one who's not even a DIRECTV® sub- showed up in this thread.
> 
> Do any of you have any constructive ideas?


Yes I do.

If you can't live with lethargic DirecTV receivers don't use DirecTV. It is wrong to think that it will get better&#8230;. It has been this way since the HR20 was introduced and by postings here it continues with the latest and greatest HR34. Sometimes they are ok many times they are not and apparently DirecTV is content.

No amount of tweaking, massaging, drinking or praying is going to make the HR series receivers respond like the old SD receivers or like Dish Network HD DVRs.

Adapt, lower your expectations and watch TV after your HR catches up or switch providers.


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## Rickt1962 (Jul 17, 2012)

Scott Kocourek said:


> There is more to switching a channel on satellite, one channel to the next may be on a different transponder or satellite, then add in possible resolution changes and things seem slow. It's really the nature of the beast but that's not to say it won't ever be faster.


Yea i given up on Channel surfing with DTV. But ther shouldnt be any excuse for a slow Channel Guide or Your Movie List to pop up ! That should always be in the back ground of the software to be viewed at a mouments notice.


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## Rickt1962 (Jul 17, 2012)

Not sure how many here are into OS and Hard Drives. But if you ever had a Hard Drive replaced in DTV. After booting It reformats the Drive then installs the OS to the drive. The slowness is coming from the HardDrive.

I just installed a 180g SSD drive to my Home PC and Kept my 1 tera as storage. No longer have to wait the 2 to 3 minute boot up anymore ! It boots in seconds ! And any program I installed to the SSD is instant when i click on it ! So using my old computer not changing to a faster CPU or adding more RAM and Now I am 10 times faster with just doing that ! 
So going back to DTV makes you wonder if the slow responce is between the Hard Drive and the head unit communicating with each other.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Rickt1962 said:


> Not sure how many here are into OS and Hard Drives. But if you ever had a Hard Drive replaced in DTV. After booting It reformats the Drive then installs the OS to the drive. The slowness is coming from the HardDrive.
> 
> I just installed a 180g SSD drive to my Home PC and Kept my 1 tera as storage. No longer have to wait the 2 to 3 minute boot up anymore ! It boots in seconds ! And any program I installed to the SSD is instant when i click on it ! So using my old computer not changing to a faster CPU or adding more RAM and Now I am 10 times faster with just doing that !
> So going back to DTV makes you wonder if the slow responce is between the Hard Drive and the head unit communicating with each other.


The OS, aka firmware, is not installed on the hard drive. The only thing on the hard drive are recordings, series links, guide data, logos, logs, etc. The slowness is not the hard drive.


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## NR4P (Jan 16, 2007)

H25 runs at warp drive. I've tried many Directv receivers and it flies.
The HR24 is tad faster than the HR34 when it comes to DVR speed.

Keep native OFF so the TV switching resolutions doesn't slow things down.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> Yes I do.
> 
> If you can't live with lethargic DirecTV receivers don't use DirecTV. It is wrong to think that it will get better&#8230;. It has been this way since the HR20 was introduced and by postings here it continues with the latest and greatest HR34. Sometimes they are ok many times they are not and apparently DirecTV is content.
> 
> ...


I fully agree. If you want fast equipment, you probably aren't going to get it from D*!

That said, I take mine to channel 1 about once a week for 30 seconds and just doing that seems to make things a tad quicker. Not speedy, but just a bit faster.


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

lparsons21 said:


> I fully agree. If you want fast equipment, you probably aren't going to get it from D*!


You can, but he will likely have to pay for it. My HR34 is pretty speedy, IMO. The HR22s, are awful and suffer from terrible keybounce issues (and no, it is not LCD interference since one of them is hooked up to a 36 inch CRT).


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

I have also read that it appears to effect the speed if the HD has 30% or less free space.
I can not verify this since mine most of the time have at least 70% free space.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

The two HR24s that I use all the time never have less than 70% or so free space as I record/watch/delete and hardly every archive since the recordings are locked to the receiver and not the account.

Most of the time, the speed is acceptable, but at no time have they been as speedy as any of the Dish DVRs I had over the years. But on too many occasions it gets a bit unresponsive, and also takes an inordinate amount of time 'refreshing' something or the other.

So IMO, no lots of free space doesn't make them quicker.


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## dishrich (Apr 23, 2002)

Stroh, I just got through going thru this same BS w/D*, as I also have 2 POS HR20-100's, that I finally had a gutfull with! The bottom line is, regardless of all the numerous feeble excuses the fanboys keep coming up with, these older HR receivers (pre HR24) are simply NOT equipped to run all the bloatware D* keeps shoving down into them, period!

If you want better equip performance (ie: new receivers) than what you are currently getting out of those POS HR20's, the ONLY way you're going to get it fixed (somewhat) for FREE, is to dump DTV's a$$! Once you do that, I GUARANTEE you in under a week, THEN they'll decide to pull out ALL the stops & give you what they should have done in the first damm place! (ie: they'll THEN start you over as a brand new customer w/ALL new equip, including offering you a GENIE w/clients FREE) Of course, you WILL get stuck w/another 2 (long) year contract for the privilege if you choose to go this way. They will probably offer you $200 if you have an ETF with another provider; assuming you already switched to someone else. I know this because this is exactly what happened to me; matter of fact, it only took 3 days before the winback offers poured into my e-mail, as well as phone calls to my cell phone; I've been disco'd for over 2 months & am STILL getting these offers as we speak.  

I gotta tell you something else though...I now have nearby access to an HR24 on a regular basis. I can tell you that while it's much faster than previous receivers, it is still NO match for my new 722k's! Even though these are NOT E*'s newest receivers, they can VERY easily run circles (speedwise) around ANY D* receiver. I just cannot believe what a breath of fresh air it is to now have DVR's that, when you press a button...it actually does something right THEN!  

The good news for you is, even D* knows these HR20's are POS's, as they no longer want them back. If you still have lots of unwatched shows on the hard drives, if you disconnect them from the dish BEFORE you disconnect them, you CAN keep on watching your existing shows just fine. Matter of fact, now that I disco'd these things, they actually run somewhat decently now; hmm, think maybe it's because they no longer have all the BS bloatware coming into them now...


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

dishrich said:


> Stroh, I just got through going thru this same BS w/D*, as I also have 2 POS HR20-100's, that I finally had a gutfull with! The bottom line is, regardless of all the numerous feeble excuses the fanboys keep coming up with, these older HR receivers (pre HR24) are simply NOT equipped to run all the bloatware D* keeps shoving down into them, period!
> 
> If you want better equip performance (ie: new receivers) than what you are currently getting out of those POS HR20's, the ONLY way you're going to get it fixed (somewhat) for FREE, is to dump DTV's a$$! Once you do that, I GUARANTEE you in under a week, THEN they'll decide to pull out ALL the stops & give you what they should have done in the first damm place! (ie: they'll THEN start you over as a brand new customer w/ALL new equip, including offering you a GENIE w/clients FREE) Of course, you WILL get stuck w/another 2 (long) year contract for the privilege if you choose to go this way. They will probably offer you $200 if you have an ETF with another provider; assuming you already switched to someone else. I know this because this is exactly what happened to me; matter of fact, it only took 3 days before the winback offers poured into my e-mail, as well as phone calls to my cell phone; I've been disco'd for over 2 months & am STILL getting these offers as we speak.
> 
> ...


I feel like at times I can see temporary slow downs in responses that could be attributed to stuff downloading that I do not want, like all the instant play movies and banners telling me to record this or that. I don't do PPV and I know what I want to record.

I have no experience with any other vendor's DVRs so I have nothing to compare them to except for a HD NON DVR receiver. Huge difference there for sure.

You call us Fanboys. I am that. Been a customer since 1996. I am not crazy about the slow reveivers. Some are much slower than others and some have problems that a little bit of experimenting and effort can make the problem be much less of a problem and bearable.

I have written to DTV several times and suggested that they stop replacing DVRs with old models and use the 24. At some point all the old ones would be gone and the software would probably work better without it having to work on so many models and vendors that they come from.


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## Rickt1962 (Jul 17, 2012)

jimmie57 said:


> I have also read that it appears to effect the speed if the HD has 30% or less free space.
> I can not verify this since mine most of the time have at least 70% free space.


OH yes! i can confirm THAT ! When the hard drive is empty your system is Fast ! So the speed issue is the communication between the Hard Drive and the Head unit. As i stated earlier thats the bottle neck in the system ! I have a 2 tera byte in mine it is 40 % full And its is slow as hell ! Just going to have to wait till the SSD's come down in price and get the 2 tera byte size to make it worth while.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Rickt1962 said:


> I have a 2 tera byte in mine it is 40 % full And its is slow as hell !


There have been a lot of valid *****es here, and if I had any of them, I too would be screaming.

In this one though I have to comment, as it seems the user has modified their HR21, and now is complaining about how it sucks. :nono:


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

All 4 of my HR24-500s are Fast and much better than my 2 HR23-700s.

Also, channel changing requires an HDMI Handshake which will always take time regardless of anything else you do such as programming. etc. so I don't Surf but I do hit the Guide Button and Surf thru channels to see what programming is on then I Select the Channel I want to watch and wait for the HDMI Handshake to complete it's thing.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Rickt1962 said:


> OH yes! i can confirm THAT ! When the hard drive is empty your system is Fast ! So the speed issue is the communication between the Hard Drive and the Head unit. As i stated earlier thats the bottle neck in the system ! I have a 2 tera byte in mine it is 40 % full And its is slow as hell ! Just going to have to wait till the SSD's come down in price and get the 2 tera byte size to make it worth while.


That used to be the case, but frankly, not anymore, at least not for me. I regularly run with fairly full 2tb drives, often less than 10% available, sometimes even 0% available and that has zero effect on the speed of my units vs them being 80% empty.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Rickt1962 said:


> OH yes! i can confirm THAT ! When the hard drive is empty your system is Fast ! So the speed issue is the communication between the Hard Drive and the Head unit.


I have 4 HR24-500s and they are all filled up to about 80% and I have NO PROBLEMS WHATSOEVER with them at that Capacity!!!

It all depends on what Model DVR you have!!! :hurah:


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## Rickt1962 (Jul 17, 2012)

Richierich said:


> I have 4 HR24-500s and they are all filled up to about 80% and I have NO PROBLEMS WHATSOEVER with them at that Capacity!!!
> 
> It all depends on what Model DVR you have!!! :hurah:


Man i hope so ! Planning on getting the HR34 and bumping up the capacity to 8 Tera bytes. But i still think the biggest leap in technology is when the SSD drive get bigger and cheaper ! About 2 more years ! Hopefully DTV is building the new units with the Faster sata board to handle 6 gig speed transfer !


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## stroh (Oct 18, 2004)

Thanks for all the feedback. Im sure my problems are hardware related, firmware and software that pushes old hardware too far. Trickplay functions, guide response, menu response, etc. I have tried most if not all of the suggestions above without success.

I called DTV again in a last ditch attempt to get some resolution. Tried the resets again, 963 on the remote again, etc. The tech I spoke with was competent and sympathetic. I explained that I was a happy 15 year DTV customer but couldn't handle the poor performance of the substandard equipment. I asked if they had reports of similar problems with the Genie receivers he advised that he wasn't aware of any. I explained that I was willing to try replacing the receivers with a Genie and client if he thought that would solve the problem. He said the best he could do was $299 for the Genie, $100 for the client, and $49 for the installation. I said I wasn't willing to pay anything out of my pocket to replace substandard equipment. Finally I said I was going to give Uverse a call and would call them back to turn off my service when I had the Uverse up and running. He said he would transfer me to someone that might be able to help give me a better deal. I'm guessing Retention. Bottom line they are going to come out tomorrow and install a new dish, Genie, and client to replace my two hr20's. With discounts, credits and other incentives it won't cost me anything but a new two year commitment. 

We'll see what happens...


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## Rickt1962 (Jul 17, 2012)

stroh said:


> Thanks for all the feedback. Im sure my problems are hardware related, firmware and software that pushes old hardware too far. Trickplay functions, guide response, menu response, etc. I have tried most if not all of the suggestions above without success.
> 
> I called DTV again in a last ditch attempt to get some resolution. Tried the resets again, 963 on the remote again, etc. The tech I spoke with was competent and sympathetic. I explained that I was a happy 15 year DTV customer but couldn't handle the poor performance of the substandard equipment. I asked if they had reports of similar problems with the Genie receivers he advised that he wasn't aware of any. I explained that I was willing to try replacing the receivers with a Genie and client if he thought that would solve the problem. He said the best he could do was $299 for the Genie, $100 for the client, and $49 for the installation. I said I wasn't willing to pay anything out of my pocket to replace substandard equipment. Finally I said I was going to give Uverse a call and would call them back to turn off my service when I had the Uverse up and running. He said he would transfer me to someone that might be able to help give me a better deal. I'm guessing Retention. Bottom line they are going to come out tomorrow and install a new dish, Genie, and client to replace my two hr20's. With discounts, credits and other incentives it won't cost me anything but a new two year commitment.
> 
> We'll see what happens...


Thank you !! Ive been telling people that on here and get flamed ! As soon as you walk away is when they studder and back track to keep you ! CSR cant help most times but when they switch you into the Retension Rep will do cart wheels !


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

stroh said:


> Bottom line they are going to come out tomorrow and install a new dish, Genie, and client to replace my two hr20's. With discounts, credits and other incentives it won't cost me anything but a new two year commitment.
> 
> We'll see what happens...


Sounds good! I hope the speed improvement with the HR34 will at least get you back to the 'usable' level and I'm glad they are setting you up for no charge.

I'd be very interested in your assessment of the performance of the HR34. I've read good and bad but it is hard to know who is being truthful on their assesments. Many here seem to be blinded by their love or hate of DirecTV.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> I'd be very interested in your assessment of the performance of the HR34. I've read good and bad but it is hard to know who is being truthful on their assesments. Many here seem to be blinded by their love or hate of DirecTV.


Mine isn't quite up to the response of my HR24.


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## RACJ2 (Aug 2, 2008)

Mike Greer said:


> Sounds good! I hope the speed improvement with the HR34 will at least get you back to the 'usable' level and I'm glad they are setting you up for no charge.
> 
> I'd be very interested in your assessment of the performance of the HR34. I've read good and bad but it is hard to know who is being truthful on their assesments. Many here seem to be blinded by their love or hate of DirecTV.


The HR34 has the same inconsistency that the other HR DVR's have always had. When its working good, its very responsive. When it decides to slow down, you have to do a reset and so far that has always resolved the issue.

I still have an HR22 as well, which has always worked better then what you have described about your HR22. It has actually been really stable and I haven't had as many slow downs as I've had with the HR34. Despite the occasional slow down, with the added features that I gained with the HR34, after 8+ months I'm still glad I upgraded to it.


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## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

Mike Greer said:


> Sounds good! I hope the speed improvement with the HR34 will at least get you back to the 'usable' level and I'm glad they are setting you up for no charge.
> 
> I'd be very interested in your assessment of the performance of the HR34. I've read good and bad but it is hard to know who is being truthful on their assesments. Many here seem to be blinded by their love or hate of DirecTV.


I'd categorize myself as middle-of-the-road on the love/hate scale :lol: I'm sure the OP will chime in after experiencing the HR34, but it tends to be plagued by the same "slow down" problem on occasion. Its speed is not as bad as an HR22 (I still have one to know), but is not as fast as an HR24 (which I also have.) It is a newer receiver, so it does come with additional "quirks" that are being worked out.

As the HR22, HR24, and HR34 all have a different hardware architecture it's curious that they experience similar slowdown issues (albeit to different degrees.) In an all D* household I think you do become accustomed to it. It becomes noticable when company is over, and you're asked "is there something wrong with your box?" It's also more noticable after visiting the neighbors (who have Dish.)


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

veryoldschool said:


> Mine isn't quite up to the response of my HR24.


Hmm... Hopefully better response than the HR24-500 I use the most (that I have to restart every couple of weeks!).



RACJ2 said:


> The HR34 has the same inconsistency that the other HR DVR's have always had. When its working good, its very responsive. When it decides to slow down, you have to do a reset and so far that has always resolved the issue.
> 
> I still have an HR22 as well, which has always worked better then what you have described about your HR22. It has actually been really stable and I haven't had as many slow downs as I've had with the HR34. Despite the occasional slow down, with the added features that I gained with the HR34, after 8+ months I'm still glad I upgraded to it.


You'd think they would have used the HR34 to get a clean start. Maybe they are using essentially the same code base as the other HRs - who knows.

A plus on the 5 tuners but man I wish they'd fix the response troubles!



dsw2112 said:


> I'd categorize myself as middle-of-the-road on the love/hate scale :lol: I'm sure the OP will chime in after experiencing the HR34, but it tends to be plagued by the same "slow down" problem on occasion. Its speed is not as bad as an HR22 (I still have one to know), but is not as fast as an HR24 (which I also have.) It is a newer receiver, so it does come with additional "quirks" that are being worked out.
> 
> As the HR22, HR24, and HR34 all have a different hardware architecture it's curious that they experience similar slowdown issues (albeit to different degrees.) In an all D* household I think you do become accustomed to it. It becomes noticable when company is over, and you're asked "is there something wrong with your box?" It's also more noticable after visiting the neighbors (who have Dish.)


Bummer - I guess I'll stick with the HR24s I have for now. Not willing to start a new contract just yet!


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## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

Laxguy said:


> Amazing how four of the most dissatisfied users-well, including one who's not even a DIRECTV® sub- showed up in this thread.
> 
> Do any of you have any constructive ideas?


My constructive idea, at least implied, was switching to FiOS. I realize not everyone has that opportunity.


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## rmmccann (Apr 16, 2012)

billsharpe said:


> My constructive idea, at least implied, was switching to FiOS. I realize not everyone has that opportunity.


That's my thought as well. Rather that getting all butt-hurt and calling those of us who are "OK" with the receivers fanboys, switch to a provider that makes you happy.

Personally, the receivers work just fine for me. I'm much happier with the content selection and the fact that even though the DirecTV receivers aren't perfect, they are much better than the crapware my cable company has been providing to people for the past few years. WHDVR, HD channels that follow a logical numbering scheme (rather than the nonsensical one the cable co uses), a much larger selection of HD channels and HD premiums (not forgetting NFL Sunday Ticket) and the fact that I can record more than one show at a time makes it more than worth the hiccups for me.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

rmmccann said:


> That's my thought as well. Rather that getting all butt-hurt and calling those of us who are "OK" with the receivers fanboys, switch to a provider that makes you happy.
> 
> Personally, the receivers work just fine for me. I'm much happier with the content selection and the fact that even though the DirecTV receivers aren't perfect, they are much better than the crapware my cable company has been providing to people for the past few years. WHDVR, HD channels that follow a logical numbering scheme (rather than the nonsensical one the cable co uses), a much larger selection of HD channels and HD premiums (not forgetting NFL Sunday Ticket) and the fact that I can record more than one show at a time makes it more than worth the hiccups for me.


Well said.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

jimmie57 said:


> Well said.


Modifying one's expectations downward does not address the question of how to improve performance.

As DIRECTV has decided that performance is not an issue (and they're supported by legions of apologists that testify regularly that it isn't), the best next options are to reward them with lots of your money (an amount approximately the cost of a 18-24 month ETF) to lease equipment that is _currently_ performing better or seek services elsewhere.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

harsh said:


> Modifying one's expectations downward does not address the question of how to improve performance.
> 
> As DIRECTV has decided that performance is not an issue (and they're supported by legions of apologists that testify regularly that it isn't), the best next options are to reward them with lots of your money (an amount approximately the cost of a 18-24 month ETF) to lease equipment that is _currently_ performing better or seek services elsewhere.


Speed is relavent.
For instance, the difference in the time it takes to change channels between a HD DVR and an HD receiver. 
How long is that ?
What would we do with that bit of time if we had it change instantaneous ?
Would we get up out of our recliner and go play a game, have a meal, enjoy the company of a lady. Nope, not enough time to really count.
OK, let's say that we had instant channel changes. I could go around the guide a few more times per day. Did that get me more or better programming ? No. Did that get me enough time to complete any task ? No.
Did it let me go make any more money. No.

What did the speed up of the receiver get me ? Nothing, other than the fact that I can now look and say "Wow, that changes channels fast". Whooopeeee.

If you do not like the system and have left it, why are you here ?
Are you looking for help ?
Are you trying to help others ?

I am here to learn and to try to help others with some minor problems that can be changed with settings, etc.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

jimmie57 said:


> Speed is relevant.


It's Harsh that isn't. :lol:

You're having a discussion with a Dish sub, about DirecTV :nono:


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## stroh (Oct 18, 2004)

Well it's been about 8 hours since the install. Been playing with it quite a bit waiting for guide data so I can reenter my season passes. Everything seems great. Fast, responsive, no problems... yet. 

Odd change from previous installs, installer did not arrive in DTV vehicle but in his own. I was a little leery but the installer ended up being great. Not only did a clean job, cleaning up after himself, he cleaned up some rats nest accumulated from previous installers. Calls from both installers supervisor and DTV to make sure everything was satisfactory.

My install:

Roof:
Existing dish, new LNB (SWM-8?)
One coax going through grounding block then inside attic to Power Inserter.

Attic:
Power Inserter powered from outlet in attic. One coax to dish, one to splitter.
Splitter with single coax split to my original four, two to each room.

Living room:
HMC Genie (HR34-700, 0x5d3 installed immediately) (one coax line)
CCK connected to wired ethernet (one coax line)

Office:
Genie Client (C31/700) (one coax line used, one not used)

Couple of questions:
1) Going to Settings/Whole-Home/Status shows Whole-Home DVR: Not Authorized. I'm assuming I don't need this with the setup I have since the client is playing off the HR34 without a problem and I don't have any other DVRs.

2) Do I need the CCK? I have wired ethernet at both locations. I see conflicting information online about whether or not to leave it. Everything seems to be working fine. VOD, updates, shows internet connected. Are there any pros or cons regarding direct ethernet vs CCK?


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## Marcus Welby (Apr 8, 2007)

jimmie57 said:


> I feel like at times I can see temporary slow downs in responses that could be attributed to stuff downloading that I do not want, like all the instant play movies and banners telling me to record this or that.


I can tell you that this is indeed an issue. While scrolling through the channel guide, it will always freeze up on any guide page that contains one or more banners of the specific type that say "Press SELECT to Watch Now" (there are a couple of other banner ad types that don't have any issues). You can verify that it's not a remote problem because the program description at the top will be stuck on the program info for the show that was highlighted on the PREVIOUS page. It can take anywhere from 10 to 30 seconds for the description to change to what is highlighted on the CURRENT page. Once it does, the receiver becomes responsive again. This is totally consistent and repeatable on my HR20.


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## lugnutathome (Apr 13, 2009)

Do you need it in your case? Not really but you would be deviating from a standard install forcing a CSR support session off the scripts. If it is working as it should why change it to something that will complicate support calls?

Don "food for thought or ignoring as you see fit" Bolton



stroh said:


> Well it's been about 8 hours since the install. Been playing with it quite a bit waiting for guide data so I can reenter my season passes. Everything seems great. Fast, responsive, no problems... yet.
> 
> Odd change from previous installs, installer did not arrive in DTV vehicle but in his own. I was a little leery but the installer ended up being great. Not only did a clean job, cleaning up after himself, he cleaned up some rats nest accumulated from previous installers. Calls from both installers supervisor and DTV to make sure everything was satisfactory.
> 
> ...


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## lugnutathome (Apr 13, 2009)

I have been reading this thread and am amazed at the raw emotion expressed over performance and the fact the he provider "owes" us new and better equipment. 

Fact is they are improving the hardware on a regular basis. Certainly many of the improvements are features to generate new or improve existing revenue streams but that is what a business must do in order to survive. As is cost containment. Simply replacing old equipment with new every time someone gets a bug up their behee would end up yet another reason to up our already high prices.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned here is the process for clearing NVRAM. On the channels where you can use the red button for scoreboard this can feed a memory issue that in fact does manifest itself as slowing down the machine. I have not seen this mentioned for almost a year now sp maybe it has been rectified or just forgotten.

But if you are a sports junkie perhaps this may help.

To try this change to channel 1, go ahead get a cup of beverage while it fully tunes in 

Then on the remote press red, red, blue, blue, yellow, green

You should then see a notice in the lower portion of the screen that NVRAM is cleared.

See if that helps things, it may or may not.

Yes the code shouldn't get one into such a place where this happens. But runtime interpreted code has complexities in memory management native to the code runner and difficult if not impossible to control by the coders. You encounter the same issues with many websites. Even occasionally this one actually.

Don "you may resume your emotional state now" Bolton


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

VOS has told us its being on channel 1 long enough, not the button sequence that makes the difference.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

lugnutathome said:


> One thing I haven't seen mentioned here is the process for clearing NVRAM. On the channels where you can use the red button for scoreboard this can feed a memory issue that in fact does manifest itself as slowing down the machine. I have not seen this mentioned for almost a year now sp maybe it has been rectified or just forgotten.


This turned out to be somewhat of a myth. What did make the change was tuning to channel one for 30 sec.
The pressing of the colored buttons, merely had you there for 30 sec or more.


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## lugnutathome (Apr 13, 2009)

Well then that explains why I haven't seen it mentioned for awhile:lol:

So go to channel one and park for a minute, refresh the beverage, make room for another. Got it!

Don "so my outdated post still had value, I learned something:grin:" Bolton



veryoldschool said:


> This turned out to be somewhat of a myth. What did make the change was tuning to channel one for 30 sec.
> The pressing of the colored buttons, merely had you there for 30 sec or more.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

harsh said:


> Modifying one's expectations downward does not address the question of how to improve performance.


But lowering expectations is the only real fix when it comes to DirecTV receivers - if you want to continue subscribing to DirecTV that is....


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

jimmie57 said:


> Speed is relavent.
> For instance, the difference in the time it takes to change channels between a HD DVR and an HD receiver.
> How long is that ?
> What would we do with that bit of time if we had it change instantaneous ?
> ...


I personally don't care so much about the slow channel changes. I rarely watch live TV. I know some do and for channel surfers the HR series is certainly not going to make you happy.

I do care about inconsistent scrolling through the guide and menus and the delay of acting on remote button pushes etc. The complete 30+ second lockups are also rather annoying!

I do appreciate your willingness to jump in and help!


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

stroh said:


> Well it's been about 8 hours since the install. Been playing with it quite a bit waiting for guide data so I can reenter my season passes. Everything seems great. Fast, responsive, no problems... yet.?


Glad to hear the install went well and so far so good.

Keep us posted on how it performs over the next couple of weeks.


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

jimmie57 said:


> It is also possible that the remote is just worn out.


This was my issue. I "noticed" that my HR20 was not responding to remote commands, but it just happened that those commands were the play, pause and FF . Replaced the remote and issues went away. Well, the responding to the remote issues .


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

Mike Greer said:


> I personally don't care so much about the slow channel changes. I rarely watch live TV. I know some do and for channel surfers the HR series is certainly not going to make you happy.
> 
> I do care about inconsistent scrolling through the guide and menus and the delay of acting on remote button pushes etc. The complete 30+ second lockups are also rather annoying!
> 
> I do appreciate your willingness to jump in and help!


Thanks, I like helping when I can.

Lockups and 30 second channel changes should not be happening.
What all have you tried to remedy your problems ?


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

lugnutathome said:


> I have been reading this thread and am amazed at the raw emotion expressed over performance and the fact the he provider "owes" us new and better equipment.


I think DirecTV does 'owe' me equipment that works. I paid $600 to get 3 HR24-500s that worked pretty well until they messed them up with the HDGUI. Why should I be out the $600 I paid to get HD DVRs that responded to the remote etc?

Are you suggesting that I should expect to pay $600 every year or two to keep up with DirecTVs software engineers? Maybe I should say lack of software engineers?

There is no amount of money I can pay to get back to the performance of my pre-HDGUI HR24s is there? From all appearances the HR34 also suffers from similar response issues. Maybe they'll fix them because the HR34 is still pretty young but they never did fix the HR20/21/22 or 23 so why should we expect anything different?

I should just be happy that the $600 I paid to get responsive DVRs was only a temporary fix?

So many questions.... So few answers!


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Dr. Welby, and others: Many folks circumvent this via custom channel guides.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Mr. Greer-

IIRC I've said this to you before: If you have three HR24s and they are all acting bad, it's most likely you use them in a manner different from the rest of us, or something. Perhaps one is bad and you're projecting? Perhaps the batteries have all worn down the same? Many more perhapses.....


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

jimmie57 said:


> Thanks, I like helping when I can.
> 
> Lockups and 30 second channel changes should not be happening.
> What all have you tried to remedy your problems ?


I've tried just about everything I think... Including your suggestions.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

Mike Greer said:


> I've tried just about everything I think... Including your suggestions.


OK


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Laxguy said:


> Mr. Greer-
> 
> IIRC I've said this to you before: If you have three HR24s and they are all acting bad, it's most likely you use them in a manner different from the rest of us, or something. Perhaps one is bad and you're projecting? Perhaps the batteries have all worn down the same? Many more perhapses.....


When I first got them to replace my HR22s they all acted about the same except for the caller ID which has always been screwy.

When the HDGUI came along they all went downhill but they don't all behave the same way. One of them, the one I use the least, is more responsive than the others. It will still occasionally miss a remote command and is painfully slow navigating through the guide and menus but not too big of a deal.

The one I use the most I have to restart every week or two or it will start going unresponsive out of the blue. Once in a while I'll FFWD and it will start to FFWD but then I can't stop it. The receiver completely ignores ALL remote AND front panel button pushes for 30 seconds up to 3 or 4 minutes. It will then go back to normal. If I keep pushing buttons while it is out-to-lunch at least some of the button pushes are acted on when it comes back. The onscreen clock also stops.

This trouble is not the remote or anything to do with the remote because the clock stops and the buttons on the front panel also do nothing.

The third HR24 will do this once in a while but nowhere near as much.

Neither of them do it as long as I remember to restart them - I've been doing that on Sundays and that at least keeps them from losing it completely. Doesn't do anything to speed up scrolling through the menus.

Bottom line as I said earlier in this thread.... If you want to use DirecTV you just have be able to get past these kinds of troubles. Pretty pathetic because before they forced the HDGUI (that really doesn't give us anything) on all of us life was pretty good with all three of my HR24s.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

Scrolling thru the menu / Guide should be very fast if you have turned the scrolling feature to OFF.
Menu, Settings, Display, Preferences, Scrolling Effects : OFF.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

jimmie57 said:


> Scrolling thru the menu / Guide should be very fast if you have turned the scrolling feature to OFF.
> Menu, Settings, Display, Preferences, Scrolling Effects : OFF.


Yep - its off.

Part of the trouble may be what you consider 'very fast' and what I consider 'very slow' could be the same speed!

I used to have Comcast and their Motorola DVR was/is horribly slow - I mean painfully awfully slow. It was still usable because it was very consistent and never missed remote buttons etc. You knew what to expect and always did its thing - just slow slow slow.

Then I had Dish Network and their receivers are FAST! I used Dish for years with 622 receivers. Lightening speed all the time no matter what - even when recording two satellite channels and 1 over-the-air channel and scrolling through the guide. The 622 is a receiver from back in the days of the HR20 and is still much much quicker than an HR24 even before HDGUI fiasco.

If I had gone from the Comcast Motorola DVR straight to the HRs from DirecTV I would still be annoyed by the missed remote commands and the inconsistent speed... But I probably wouldn't call them 'slow'.

Basically using Dish Networks lightning fast DVRS made switching to DirecTV quite the painful slowdown that I still have problems with today. I was mostly content with the HR24s before they slowed them down with HDGUI.

There is an independent satellite reseller not too far from me that has an HR24 and a Dish network 722k sitting side-by-side. Moving around the menus and scrolling through the guide is multiple times faster and smoother on 722k. The saddest thing of all is the guide from Dish Network has much more information on the screen at once... You'd expect it to be slower not much quicker.


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## rmmccann (Apr 16, 2012)

jimmie57 said:


> Scrolling thru the menu / Guide should be very fast if you have turned the scrolling feature to OFF.
> Menu, Settings, Display, Preferences, Scrolling Effects : OFF.


+1 I did this on all my receivers and although only a small improvement was noted, it was an improvement nonetheless.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

I appreciate all of where you have been but that does not help.

You have turned the scrolling to OFF. That is good.

My HR23 speed: Press button for guide until guide is on the screen, 2 seconds.
Scroll the guide thru all 84 channels in my Favorites list, 6 seconds. I can not read it when it is moving this fast. What I do is use the channel up or down button and jump a screen at a time until I get in the area I want to be or type in a new number to go directly there.


What is the time for this with your receiver ?


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

jimmie57 said:


> I appreciate all of where you have been but that does not help.
> 
> You have turned the scrolling to OFF. That is good.
> 
> ...


I was just trying to give you an idea of why we may be looking at the same thing but not seeing the same thing.

When I hit guide it usually takes 2 seconds or less to come up but sometimes can take as long as 10 seconds. Not consistent so I hit it again and then it picks both guide pushes up!

I don't have favorites so I can't directly compare the speed but one example is that when I hit guide and hit channel down to scroll to the next page it may stick there for 2-3 seconds then move. Or if hit want to go down the list quickly to get skip a few pages... I hit channel down 4 times - sometimes it moves down 2 sometimes 3 sometimes 4 pages.

The worst part is moving ahead in the guide - when I arrow over you never know what you're going to get... If there are in-guide ads especially. I have to slow down and use the arrow once, wait for it to move, then hit it again etc. If I want to go two hours ahead it is a pain to scroll.

Maybe if the guide is smaller, like your favs, it works better. I'll try and setup some favorites and see how the guide works there.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

I changed my guide to all channels I get and it took over 1 minute to go completely around. 
It especially slowed down when I got to the PPV channels with all those banner ads in there.

My Favorite list has only HD channels in it. The Channels I get has HD and SD and the SD duplicates of the HD channels.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

jimmie57 said:


> I changed my guide to all channels I get and it took over 1 minute to completely around.
> It especially slowed down when I got to the PPV channels with all those banner ads in there.
> 
> My Favorite list has only HD channels in it. The Channels I get has HD and SD and the SD duplicates of the HD channels.


Why would you want to show SD dups of HD channels? That might slow a tad.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

Laxguy said:


> Why would you want to show SD dups of HD channels? That might slow a tad.


I personally do not use the SD channels, nor do I use the Channels I Get. When a person has a question about an SD channel that I have in my list as only HD it is my easiest way to get to the SD channel.


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## JeffBowser (Dec 21, 2006)

Been watching this thread (and all others like it). I've been out of contract for years, and will stay that way, until DirecTV throws some horsepower at these DVRs.


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## lugnutathome (Apr 13, 2009)

I get your point but you sort of mixed things. You expect them "to work" which they do and apparently a diminished response time equates to in your thoughts "not working"?

You are right about Direct's evolving technology, it cuts not only through the receivers but also the infrastructure my wallet has felt that being in an obscenely large home and wanting things "just so" I have had to invest and re-invest. A choice I made. Yes I did grumble at times but now with my current set up I couldn't be happier.

And yes my HR23-700 sets the land speed record for an inanimate object at times. I've also seen firmware improve speed on machines and would not be surprised if such wasn't currently in the works.

You chose to make an investment and you have issues now with some of the changes. Your best recourse is to constructively address Direct TV with those issues and your feelings without berating people. (and I'm not saying you are)

I get where you are coming from though as I myself was there only but three years ago myself. I've had over 6k invested in initial infrastructure and changes to support the evolutions of the technology. I accepted that finally as I only have Dish or Direct as options (out in farmland).

In the end I respect your position Mike. I was just making observation that the overall tone of the thread was getting a bit heated is all.

Don "and now back to Cows With Guns on channel 392" Bolton



Mike Greer said:


> I think DirecTV does 'owe' me equipment that works. I paid $600 to get 3 HR24-500s that worked pretty well until they messed them up with the HDGUI. Why should I be out the $600 I paid to get HD DVRs that responded to the remote etc?
> 
> Are you suggesting that I should expect to pay $600 every year or two to keep up with DirecTVs software engineers? Maybe I should say lack of software engineers?
> 
> ...


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

392! Darn, I can't get that one- it's the Eastern feed, no? Guide says it's from NY. Are they shooting new Chik-fil-A ads around there?


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Can you test using an iPad, iPhone or a web based control of your sets? That'd eliminate- or not- the remote being part of the problem.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

JeffBowser said:


> I've been out of contract for years, and will stay that way, until DirecTV throws some horsepower at these DVRs.


Horsepower only fixes the problems for those fortunate enough to get the new hardware.

Fixing the software will surely improve the situation for EVERYONE.


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## racermd (Dec 18, 2006)

harsh said:


> Horsepower only fixes the problems for those fortunate enough to get the new hardware.
> 
> Fixing the software will surely improve the situation for EVERYONE.


I second that. I remember going through similar sluggishness issues with my old Ultimate TV units from WAAAY back when. They offered great features but were sluggish in everything they did. Eventually, once they were EOL'd, a final software release made things quite snappy. Not sure if it was removal of no-longer-needed functions or whether the code was simply optimized properly or something else entirely. But the hardware was obviously not the problem - the software WAS.

I get the same sort of feeling about the HR2x boxes. A little more time tweaking the code to run a little faster and more responsively would certainly go a long way to quieting some of these types of complaints. However, with multiple units made by multiple manufacturers, it could be a daunting task to make sure every optimization works on every unit, even if it's beta-tested by select users in the normal fashion (which shall not be named here).

The HR34 box was certainly an opportunity lost on doing a ground-up reassessment, reorganization, and reprioritization of how the software is written and tested.

Can the HR2x and HR3x boxes be made to feel snappy and responsive, seemingly instantly responding to user input? Make no mistake - it CAN be done. It's software that can be re-written to prioritize user input over other actions. The old Ultimate TV units are a good example of this. The question is whether or not the powers-that-be at D* think such an endeavor is worth the time and expense to do so on the existing equipment. Until now (and for the foreseeable future), the answer is clearly, "no."


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## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

harsh said:


> Horsepower only fixes the problems for those fortunate enough to get the new hardware.
> 
> Fixing the software will surely improve the situation for EVERYONE.


Yep. Interestingly enough, the THR22s don't seem to have these problems. Same hardware, different software. So maybe that's one solution for the OP, depending on what features he wants.

Since it's been so long and they haven't fixed it, they're either unable or unwilling to fix the problems. Either way, it's not going to change.


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

Mike Greer said:


> When I first got them to replace my HR22s they all acted about the same except for the caller ID which has always been screwy.
> 
> When the HDGUI came along they all went downhill but they don't all behave the same way. One of them, the one I use the least, is more responsive than the others. It will still occasionally miss a remote command and is painfully slow navigating through the guide and menus but not too big of a deal.
> 
> ...


We have 2 HR21s and 2 HR24s and we see the sort of issues you describe on the 2 HR21s (one has an external 1TB drive attached and it performs worse that the one with only the original 320GB drive). The HR24s, however (both with 1TB external drives), never miss a remote control key press (we use RF - on IR we'd have an occasional miss due to line of sight issues) and scrolling through the guide, playlist and menus is smooth and responsive.

Complete lockups of the receiver for many seconds is definitely not normal and indicates some sort of a problem. It may be environmental (interference with remote commands swamping the receiver) or internal to the devices (perhaps power supply issues due to dirty or inconsistent electrical power).

It is puzzling why your experience is so different from the norm. I'd press DirecTV to replace at least one receiver and see if that improves performance. If it does, you will know something in your environment is causing gradual degradation of performance.


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## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

Diana C said:


> Complete lockups of the receiver for many seconds is definitely not normal and indicates some sort of a problem. It may be environmental (interference with remote commands swamping the receiver) or internal to the devices (perhaps power supply issues due to dirty or inconsistent electrical power).


It *is* normal, or at least fairly common. My HR24 behaved the same way Mike Greer's did. So does my neighbor's. Using the SD GUI, it was great. The remote was very consistent and fast to respond, less than one second.

After the HD GUI update, there were problems immediately after. Usually key presses responded within a second. But at random times, it would be 5-30 seconds. There was no predictable way to tell when it would happen, though it usually happened after the remote was not used for a while. Absolutely nothing else changed in the setup except the "upgrade" to the HD GUI. The DVR was never connected to the Internet either.

I tried IR, RF, and even the front panel to change channels and all would be unresponsive. It would queue up all those button presses and eventually rapidly execute them all in order. You're afraid to touch the remote for fear of accidentally deleting something or having the show you're watching be spoiled because you can't stop FF.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

jimmie57 said:


> I have also read that it appears to effect the speed if the HD has 30% or less free space.
> I can not verify this since mine most of the time have at least 70% free space.


I think D* fixed that problem. I've been running a 24-500 at ~ 17% Free for months and I have no slowdowns. Not sure about the other models but my eight 24s are pretty quick and my four 20-700s are almost as fast. All my HRs (12) have 2TB drives in/on them and I truly don't have any speed problems.

I gave up on channel surfing when I switched to D*'s TiVos. I don't recall having any problems with surfing and using D*'s Ultimate DVRs.

Rich


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

Rich said:


> I think D* fixed that problem. I've been running a 24-500 at ~ 17% Free for months and I have no slowdowns. Not sure about the other models but my eight 24s are pretty quick and my four 20-700s are almost as fast. All my HRs (12) have 2TB drives in/on them and I truly don't have any speed problems.
> 
> I gave up on channel surfing when I switched to D*'s TiVos. I don't recall having any problems with surfing and using D*'s Ultimate DVRs.
> 
> Rich


Wow ! that is a lot of DVRs. With that many 2TB drives that is a ton of recordings.

Thanks for the post about the speed related to Free Space.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Rickt1962 said:


> OH yes! i can confirm THAT ! When the hard drive is empty your system is Fast ! So the speed issue is the communication between the Hard Drive and the Head unit. As i stated earlier thats the bottle neck in the system ! I have a 2 tera byte in mine it is 40 % full And its is slow as hell ! Just going to have to wait till the SSD's come down in price and get the 2 tera byte size to make it worth while.


I think the HRs run better with content stored on them than they do when new (empty). Doesn't take but a few programs to get them to work properly, but I believe they are much happier with some content on them.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Marcus Welby said:


> I can tell you that this is indeed an issue. While scrolling through the channel guide, it will always freeze up on any guide page that contains one or more banners of the specific type that say "Press SELECT to Watch Now" (there are a couple of other banner ad types that don't have any issues). You can verify that it's not a remote problem because the program description at the top will be stuck on the program info for the show that was highlighted on the PREVIOUS page. It can take anywhere from 10 to 30 seconds for the description to change to what is highlighted on the CURRENT page. Once it does, the receiver becomes responsive again. This is totally consistent and repeatable on my HR20.


I don't know which 20 you have, but the 20-700s and 24s I have are more than acceptable when it comes to speed. I have only those two types of HRs.

Here it comes: The 20-100 is junk, the 21 series of HRs should have never been made (the 23 and the 22s are 21 series HRs too). The 20-700 was the best and fastest HR before the 24s showed up and they still are damn near as fast.

If one of my HRs slows down (and they all do, from time to time), I simply flush the Guide data and they speed right up again. Try that the next time your HR slows down. Be aware, nothing we do will ever speed up a 21 series HR.

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

SledgeHammer said:


> This was my issue. I "noticed" that my HR20 was not responding to remote commands, but it just happened that those commands were the play, pause and FF . Replaced the remote and issues went away. Well, the responding to the remote issues .


HR20What??? There are two 20s, and the difference in them is appreciable.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Laxguy said:


> Mr. Greer-
> 
> IIRC I've said this to you before: If you have three HR24s and they are all acting bad, it's most likely you use them in a manner different from the rest of us, or something. Perhaps one is bad and you're projecting? Perhaps the batteries have all worn down the same? Many more perhapses.....


Mike's had nothing but bad luck. He bought three 22-100s and had nothing but trouble with them. He's not projecting, he's relating his experiences. Besides, Mike's pretty funny. Takes a good natured person to stick with us for so long.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

jimmie57 said:


> Wow ! that is a lot of DVRs. With that many 2TB drives that is a ton of recordings.


Long story that most everybody has heard that got me to this setup. I didn't plan to have this many HRs.



> Thanks for the post about the speed related to Free Space.


You're welcome. Don't forget, if your HR suddenly slows down, flush the Guide data by rebooting twice quickly. All you'll lose is part of your Guide for a bit and it should speed up your HR. Simple things like this and the channel 1 thing are what people should be trying. Calling D* and telling them your HR is slow will do nothing. They know. Give them some credit, they're trying.

Rich


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Rich said:


> Mike's had nothing but bad luck. He bought three 22-100s and had nothing but trouble with them. He's not projecting, he's relating his experiences. Besides, Mike's pretty funny. Takes a good natured person to stick with us for so long.


Agree. I misread somewhere, and thought he had HR 24's. Regardless, I hope something happens to brighten his situation, be it a new receiver or and act from the Almighty.....


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## peano (Feb 1, 2004)

Rich said:


> Calling D* and telling them your HR is slow will do nothing. They know. Give them some credit, they're trying.
> 
> Rich


I agree on the "They know" comment. I would add "They don't care".

I really doubt they are trying to fix it since this slowness issue has been around for at least four years.


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## tomski35 (Sep 7, 2007)

The HRs all suck! You read it on the Internet. 

It must be true.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

tomski35 said:


> The HRs all suck! You read it on the Internet.
> 
> It must be true.


I guess you are being FACETIOUS as all 4 of my HR24-500s with 2 TB Drives in them are Really Fast with No Problems except Slow Channel Changing and that is because of the HDMI Handshake!!!


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

tomski35 said:


> The HRs all suck! You read it on the Internet.
> 
> It must be true.


:lol:......So, if it's posted on the internet it must be true. :sure:


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

MysteryMan said:


> :lol:......So, if it's posted on the internet it must be true. :sure:


Of course it is because No One Would EVER POST Anything On The Internet that is Not True!!! :lol:


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## Beckzilla (Oct 29, 2007)

Rickt1962 said:


> OH yes! i can confirm THAT ! When the hard drive is empty your system is Fast ! So the speed issue is the communication between the Hard Drive and the Head unit. As i stated earlier thats the bottle neck in the system ! I have a 2 tera byte in mine it is 40 % full And its is slow as hell ! Just going to have to wait till the SSD's come down in price and get the 2 tera byte size to make it worth while.


I do not agree with this statement at all. I recently got a new HR-34 and it was turtle slow right off the bat with no recordings! I am NOT happy with this unit's speed in any way and it is noticably slower than my HR-24. So much for progressing with a newer model...NOT!!!


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## Beckzilla (Oct 29, 2007)

Marcus Welby said:


> I can tell you that this is indeed an issue. While scrolling through the channel guide, it will always freeze up on any guide page that contains one or more banners of the specific type that say "Press SELECT to Watch Now" (there are a couple of other banner ad types that don't have any issues). You can verify that it's not a remote problem because the program description at the top will be stuck on the program info for the show that was highlighted on the PREVIOUS page. It can take anywhere from 10 to 30 seconds for the description to change to what is highlighted on the CURRENT page. Once it does, the receiver becomes responsive again. This is totally consistent and repeatable on my HR20.


 How do you get rid of these banner ads in the guide? They are totally annoying!!


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

Beckzilla said:


> How do you get rid of these banner ads in the guide? They are totally annoying!!


If it says to press for more info it is a short recording on your hard drive. Select it, play / ff it and then delete it.

The rest of them can not be gotten rid of by us.
I sent them an email and complained to them about those and a representative called me back.
I explained to him how annoying they were and please remove them. There is no reason we should have to put up with those.
I know what I want to record and I do not do PPV movies so it is a total waste on me and an annoyance.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Laxguy said:


> Agree. I misread somewhere, and thought he had HR 24's. Regardless, I hope something happens to brighten his situation, be it a new receiver or and act from the Almighty.....


He does have 3 24s. I think he still has the three 22s too.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

peano said:


> I agree on the "They know" comment. I would add "They don't care".


I would too.



> I really doubt they are trying to fix it since this slowness issue has been around for at least four years.


You can't fix a DVR that was poorly designed. If the poor design includes slowness, there's nothing that will speed them up. If people choose to hang on to series 21 HRs, that's their fault. Again, the 20-700 and the 24s are the answer. That's if you can find a 20-700 that works well. I just dumped four 20-700s that were heading south this year. My other four still work well. Once they start randomly rebooting it's time to dump them.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Richierich said:


> I guess you are being FACETIOUS as all 4 of my HR24-500s with 2 TB Drives in them are Really Fast with No Problems except Slow Channel Changing and that is because of the HDMI Handshake!!!


Yup, agreed!!!

Rich


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## Beckzilla (Oct 29, 2007)

If you are not using the HDMI outout on the receiver do you still get the HDMI handshake?


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Beckzilla said:


> If you are not using the HDMI outout on the receiver do you still get the HDMI handshake?


Uh, no.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

"jimmie57" said:


> If it says to press for more info it is a short recording on your hard drive. Select it, play / ff it and then delete it.
> 
> The rest of them can not be gotten rid of by us.
> I sent them an email and complained to them about those and a representative called me back.
> ...


Bannes aren't there if you create a favorites list and neither channel on either Side of the banner is in your favorites list.

The ones at at channel 125 are needed. They are the only place you can easily find the pushed movies that are loaded onto your DVR, and since they are next to all the other ppv, they make perfect sense there. If you don't want to see those, then you likely don't want to see any ppv, so make a favorites list that doesn't include any ppv and all those will be gone.

I don't see the need for so much hate for the banners. They are mostly for new channels and such. there are very few that I ever see that are short recordings as you mention. Most of them inform you of something new that's is available. A least that I see, which isn't many. The only ones that seem overly redundant these days to me is the on demand ones for the premium channels. Of course, I also use a favorites list, and that limits how many I see as well.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

inkahauts said:


> Bannes aren't there if you create a favorites list and neither channel on either Side of the banner is in your favorites list.
> 
> The ones at at channel 125 are needed. They are the only place you can easily find the pushed movies that are loaded onto your DVR, and since they are next to all the other ppv, they make perfect sense there. If you don't want to see those, then you likely don't want to see any ppv, so make a favorites list that doesn't include any ppv and all those will be gone.
> 
> I don't see the need for so much hate for the banners. They are mostly for new channels and such. there are very few that I ever see that are short recordings as you mention. Most of them inform you of something new that's is available. A least that I see, which isn't many. The only ones that seem overly redundant these days to me is the on demand ones for the premium channels. Of course, I also use a favorites list, and that limits how many I see as well.


I have 84 channels in my favorites and I have 4 banners as of now , since I deleted a couple of them. One day a couple of days ago I had 3 banners on one screen, and only 3 lines of guide data. That is when I wrote to them.

Also the banners are causing some users excessive IR interference and causing ther DVR to stop reacting for a short time before they will move off those screens. I have seen several post to this problem, here and on the DTV forum.

Also, the banner colors are very bright., especially on the right end of them where it tells you to press ???? for ????. This is blatant against the black background. Remember the Outcry about the white letters on the black background ? This is far worse. In one of my emails to them about these I suggested that they change the color on the right end to the color that is used for the select button and at the same time they could decrease the intensity of the colors and that would help if they refused to remove them.

My son has an HD receiver and he does not get any of these on it. We should not have to put up with those either.


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Beckzilla said:


> I do not agree with this statement at all. I recently got a new HR-34 and it was turtle slow right off the bat with no recordings!


Evaluating performance before the system has retrieved all the guide data is not a reasonable test. After 48 hours is the time to begin speed testing as it may take that long to obtain the latest guide data and firmware.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

"jimmie57" said:


> I have 84 channels in my favorites and I have 4 banners as of now , since I deleted a couple of them. One day a couple of days ago I had 3 banners on one screen, and only 3 lines of guide data. That is when I wrote to them.
> 
> Also the banners are causing some users excessive IR interference and causing ther DVR to stop reacting for a short time before they will move off those screens. I have seen several post to this problem, here and on the DTV forum.
> 
> ...


3 n one screen is excessive except for the 125 channels which list all the ppv. I consider them basically the same as channels in the guide anyway. The only place I ever even see two to three in a row is the ones for the premium channels on demand. Other than that, it must just be bizarre set or coincidences in your favorites list. The banners are tied to channels it appears, so its not like they always have one or every two screens or something. Although that is basically what you have based on 4 in 84 channels. I guess my question is, what are they for? And are they slowing down your hr?


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

This is what I sent them the other day. It lists the channels and what the banners were.
I made the text bold so that it stood out, like the banners do on that black back ground. The first thing you see is the bolded text lines.

Please get the Banner Ads out of my Guide !!!!

I have never complained about things in the past but this is just ridicoulus.

I am looking at a screen right now that has"

*Fringe Record now banner,*

254 guide info

*The Hour Record Now banner,*

264 guide info

265 guide info

*Unlikely Animal Friends Record now banner.*

Really, 3 lines of what I want to see and 3 Banner Ads.

I know what I want to Record and I do not buy PPV movies so I do not need and especially do not want these ads.

Am I going to have to go to a NON DVR to get rid of them ?


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Laxguy said:


> Can you test using an iPad, iPhone or a web based control of your sets? That'd eliminate- or not- the remote being part of the problem.


I guess I could check but I've already eliminated the remotes from being the source of the trouble - doesn't matter if I use IR or RF or the front panel. Completely blocking light also doesn't not change the speed when using an RF remote.

I run 2 in RF mode and 1 in IR mode - total of 5 remotes that all suffer the sluggishness off and on.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

Mike Greer said:


> I guess I could check but I've already eliminated the remotes from being the source of the trouble - doesn't matter if I use IR or RF or the front panel. Completely blocking light also doesn't not change the speed when using an RF remote.
> 
> I run 2 in RF mode and 1 in IR mode - total of 5 remotes that all suffer the sluggishness off and on.


Did you make a favorites list and cut out all the unwanted channels and see if that helped.
I posted in this thread the time to cycle around my favorite list and then the time to cycle around the all channels I get and it was a huge difference.
It was like 6 seconds in the favorite and over a minute in the channels I get.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Diana C said:


> We have 2 HR21s and 2 HR24s and we see the sort of issues you describe on the 2 HR21s (one has an external 1TB drive attached and it performs worse that the one with only the original 320GB drive). The HR24s, however (both with 1TB external drives), never miss a remote control key press (we use RF - on IR we'd have an occasional miss due to line of sight issues) and scrolling through the guide, playlist and menus is smooth and responsive.
> 
> Complete lockups of the receiver for many seconds is definitely not normal and indicates some sort of a problem. It may be environmental (interference with remote commands swamping the receiver) or internal to the devices (perhaps power supply issues due to dirty or inconsistent electrical power).
> 
> It is puzzling why your experience is so different from the norm. I'd press DirecTV to replace at least one receiver and see if that improves performance. If it does, you will know something in your environment is causing gradual degradation of performance.


I'd love to blame something in my 'environment' but whatever is causing trouble in my environment would also have to be in a bunch of others environments as posted in multiple threads here.

I'd push DirecTV to replace the HR24 I use the most except that I'd lose my recordings and spending $600 to dump my POS HR22s only fixed my problem until the HDGUI came out. I don't really want to go down that road again.... Besides I'd have to tell DirecTV the receiver was completely dead before they would replace it anyway - don't want to do that either. With my luck they'd send me an HR22 to replace the HR24 - I'd probably get one the 3 HR22s I sent back that they have no doubt been shipping back and forth to poor saps since I returned them to DirecTV!

What in my environment could possibly cause the HR24-500 I use the most to start losing it after about 2 weeks? The fix is just to restart it and I'm good for another 2 weeks....

You also have to remember that the slow-down of all 3 of my HR24s started with the HDGUI and the complete freezes started 4 or 5 months ago.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Rich said:


> Mike's had nothing but bad luck. He bought three 22-100s and had nothing but trouble with them. He's not projecting, he's relating his experiences. Besides, Mike's pretty funny. Takes a good natured person to stick with us for so long.
> 
> Rich


Ha! Damn - I should have thought about the batteries! Could have saved myself the $600 for the HR24s and years of troubles if I had!:lol:


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

jimmie57 said:


> Did you...


As much as we want to offer help, these types of threads will always be around.
Last year a good friend got a new HR24 [no SWiM] and it would slow down after a couple of weeks to the point it would stop responding.
Not being that "in tune" with his new DVR, he'd pull the power cord.
I got him to use the menu restart at least as he said he could tell when this would be coming as it would start to slow down.
He'd have to do this about every two weeks.

Being so new to him, there weren't a lot of recordings or series links for them, etc., so what would be the difference between his experience and mine?

About the only thing that comes to mind is he watches a lot more sports channels with scoreguide.

I've showed him the channel one for 30 sec "trick", and haven't heard him complain since. 
Not sure if the resolved it or he just quit complaining to me. :lol:

Mike, this started for him before the HD GUI too.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

veryoldschool said:


> I've showed him the channel one for 30 sec "trick", and haven't heard him complain since.
> Not sure if the resolved it or he just quit complaining to me. :lol:


Exactly what is the Channel 1 Trick. Is that clearing NVRAM???


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Richierich said:


> Exactly what is the Channel 1 Trick. Is that clearing NVRAM???


You don't need to press the colored buttons, but "merely" stay on channel one for 30 sec.

The whole "NVRAM clearing" was a red herring.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

veryoldschool said:


> As much as we want to offer help, these types of threads will always be around.
> Last year a good friend got a new HR24 [no SWiM] and it would slow down after a couple of weeks to the point it would stop responding.
> Not being that "in tune" with his new DVR, he'd pull the power cord.
> I got him to use the menu restart at least as he said he could tell when this would be coming as it would start to slow down.
> ...


Just for my own information. How was it determined that this was the same as pressing all the buttons ? Make the answer simple since it will probably go over my head no matter how simple it is.
Thanks


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

veryoldschool said:


> The whole "NVRAM clearing" was a red herring.


REALLY!!!

It seemed to work for me but the reason it worked is that you had to be on Channel 1 for at least 30 seconds for it to Clear the NVRAM, is this right???


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

jimmie57 said:


> Did you make a favorites list and cut out all the unwanted channels and see if that helped.
> I posted in this thread the time to cycle around my favorite list and then the time to cycle around the all channels I get and it was a huge difference.
> It was like 6 seconds in the favorite and over a minute in the channels I get.


I did make a favorites list and scrolling through the list is much much quicker! I mean like night and day quicker. I only put about 20 channels on it but plan on adding the other channels and doing the same on all three of my receivers.

I don't surf the guide very much but if anyone here does then jimmie57's favorite suggestion does seem to make a bigger difference in guide speed than anything else I have tried! If you're a surfer and are annoyed by the pain-in-the-butt response from DirecTV equipment this will likely make your guide surfing much easier!

Thank you Jimmie57!


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

jimmie57 said:


> Just for my own information. How was it determined that this was the same as pressing all the buttons ? Make the answer simple since it will probably go over my head.
> Thanks


I used my friend's problem to leverage this with "my people" in Southern Cal.
They finally came back with that it was just the act of being on channel one for 30 sec and not the clearing of the NVRAM.
Since I don't have the problem, I couldn't verify this, "but" in one of these threads, it was verified that it works.
If it's going to help, just "park on" channel one for half a min.

I guess you could try to disprove this by not clearing the NVRAM, park for 30 sec, still have problems, and then go back and clear the NVRAM and resolve it.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

veryoldschool said:


> You don't need to press the colored buttons, but "merely" stay on channel one for 30 sec.
> 
> The whole "NVRAM clearing" was a red herring.


I didn't do my usual 'restart' yesterday. Later this week -Thursday or Friday my HR24 should start doing its complete hangup - when it does I'll try just going to channel 1 for 30 seconds to see if that corrects it just as restarting it does.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Richierich said:


> REALLY!!!
> 
> It seemed to work for me but the reason it worked is that you had to be on Channel 1 for at least 30 seconds for it to Clear the NVRAM, is this right???


That's the logic here.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> I didn't do my usual 'restart' yesterday so that later this week. Thursday or Friday my HR24 should start doing its complete hangup - when it does I'll try just going to channel 1 for 30 seconds to see if that corrects it just as restarting it does.


"Back in the old days" sometimes clearing NVRAM [falsely] helped and sometimes it didn't.
Why these bog down does seem to vary.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Mike Greer said:


> With my luck they'd send me an HR22 to replace the HR24 -


I have heard from several reliable sources that if you have an HR24 and they Replace it they Will Replace it with another HR24 and nothing else.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

veryoldschool said:


> I used my friend's problem to leverage this with "my people" in Southern Cal.
> They finally came back with that it was just the act of being on channel one for 30 sec and not the clearing of the NVRAM.
> Since I don't have the problem, I couldn't verify this, "but" in one of these threads, it was verified that it works.
> If it's going to help, just "park on" channel one for half a min.
> ...


I wouldn't think you could prove it in the manner you suggest since the units do respond with varying slower or faster than expected responses at most any time.

I did go there for 60 seconds and watched the lower part of the screen and the message about clearing the ram did not come up. I then did the button presses and it did come up.
However, I don't have problems with my receivers and so I don't see a difference. I do reset my receivers at least once per month also.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Laxguy said:


> Can you test using an iPad, iPhone or a web based control of your sets? That'd eliminate- or not- the remote being part of the problem.


I am a HUGE user of IP control and virtually never see any lag or slow down. It's different from the "old fashioned" way with a remote, but it's great to use and there's many options from iPad/Apple stuff to Android and PC browsers.

Mike Greer...try it.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

jimmie57 said:


> I wouldn't think you could prove it in the manner you suggest since the units do respond with varying slower or faster than expected responses at most any time.
> 
> I did go there for 60 seconds and watched the lower part of the screen and the message about clearing the ram did not come up. I then did the button presses and it did come up.
> However, I don't have problems with my receivers and so I don't see a difference. I do reset my receivers at least once per month also.


First you'd have to see the problem.
When I used to see it, it would mostly show up paging through the guide.
The HR21 would be slower than "normal" and clearing the NVRAM most of the time resolved it.

If I were to have a WAG about this, it would be that channel one acts a bit like starting a PC in the safe mode.
For the DVR to be able to clear the NVRAM, it seems it stops a lot of the processes running, which may be why it then speeds back up.

"Complete WAG" :shrug:


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

veryoldschool said:


> First you'd have to see the problem.
> When I used to see it, it would mostly show up paging through the guide.
> The HR21 would be slower than "normal" and clearing the NVRAM most of the time resolved it.
> 
> ...


I can relate that explanation to using Internet Explorer. After awhile of not shutting it down, playing videos, searching, etc. it seems to get a problem and not respond. Simply closing it's operation and restarting it clears it up.
Going to channel 1 might be temporarily shutting down all other processes while you are on it and then they get a fresh start when you go back to the normal things.

thanks


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

sigma1914 said:


> I am a HUGE user of IP control and virtually never see any lag or slow down. It's different from the "old fashioned" way with a remote, but it's great to use and there's many options from iPad/Apple stuff to Android and PC browsers.
> 
> Mike Greer...try it.


I may just give that a shot - although I don't surf the guide that much....

I just don't see it helping when the front panel itself also has the trouble - including during the 'freeze' time and then acting on the missed button pushes.

I'll give it a try in the next few days....


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

I recently bought a H25... WOW, this thing is fast. Are all non DVRs this quick? It's definitely the fastest unit I've used...I've had a HR20-700, HR24-100 & -500, HR34, & C31.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> I may just give that a shot - although I don't surf the guide that much....
> 
> I just don't see it helping when the front panel itself also has the trouble - including during the 'freeze' time and then acting on the missed button pushes.
> 
> I'll give it a try in the next few days....


It controls FFW, REW, everything... not just guide stuff.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

sigma1914 said:


> I recently bought a H25... WOW, this thing is fast. Are all non DVRs this quick? It's definitely the fastest unit I've used...I've had a HR20-700, HR24-100 & -500, HR34, & C31.


My H21 was fairly fast, but I think the H25 is the fastest to date.


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

sigma1914 said:


> I recently bought a H25... WOW, this thing is fast. Are all non DVRs this quick? It's definitely the fastest unit I've used...I've had a HR20-700, HR24-100 & -500, HR34, & C31.


That's the sad thing.... Dish Network HD DVRs - even the old ones - are that quick!


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> I may just give that a shot - although I don't surf the guide that much....
> 
> I just don't see it helping when the front panel itself also has the trouble - including during the 'freeze' time and then acting on the missed button pushes.
> 
> I'll give it a try in the next few days....





sigma1914 said:


> It controls FFW, REW, everything... not just guide stuff.


While "anything" is worth a try, if the front panel can't respond, "I'd guess" the DVR is buried trying to do "something", so the IP control would be too.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

Richierich said:


> REALLY!!!
> 
> It seemed to work for me but the reason it worked is that you had to be on Channel 1 for at least 30 seconds for it to Clear the NVRAM, is this right???


This is also reasonable since you get the "bonk" sounds if you do it too soon and it does not put up the message that it is clearing the ram and then you have to do it again.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

"veryoldschool" said:


> You don't need to press the colored buttons, but "merely" stay on channel one for 30 sec.
> 
> The whole "NVRAM clearing" was a red herring.


Darn active channel is good for something I guess... Maybe I should set a manual recording for that channel for once a week for five minutes. Let it do an auto cleansing.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

inkahauts said:


> Darn active channel is good for something I guess... Maybe I should set a manual recording for that channel for once a week for five minutes. Let it do an auto cleansing.


That's brilliant! I think I'll do exactly that!


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

veryoldschool said:


> While "anything" is worth a try, if the front panel can't respond, "I'd guess" the DVR is buried trying to do "something", so the IP control would be too.


I'd guess you are correct sir!


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

inkahauts said:


> Darn active channel is good for something I guess... Maybe I should set a manual recording for that channel for once a week for five minutes. Let it do an auto cleansing.





Mike Greer said:


> That's brilliant! I think I'll do exactly that!


An interesting concept, but I wonder if recording would be different than having the "live tuner" tune to it.

"Seems like" a recording to the drive wouldn't be the same.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

"veryoldschool" said:


> An interesting concept, but I wonder if recording would be different than having the "live tuner" tune to it.
> 
> "Seems like" a recording to the drive wouldn't be the same.


But what happens when the recoding is finished? Maybe I set two recordings? One starting a couple minutes before the one on channel 1, forcing the channel one recording to take place on the foreground tuner, and therefore in theory the live channel? And have the first recording last longer than the channel 1 recording.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

"I don't know" so it would be interesting to see how this works or if it doesn't.

First we need a guinea pig that has this problem.

Next we need "the pig" to see if tuning to channel one resolves "the problem".

Then try setting up one recording and then try two.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

veryoldschool said:


> "I don't know" so it would be interesting to see how this works or if it doesn't.
> 
> First we need a guinea pig that has this problem.
> 
> ...


Pick me! Pick me!


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> Pick me! Pick me!


pickme:

!rolling


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

veryoldschool said:


> pickme:
> 
> !rolling


Nice!

As soon as any of my receivers freak out I'll try going to channel 1 and see what happens! I've tried it in the past but that was before - now the trouble is much more noticable so I'll give it another go.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> Nice!
> 
> As soon as any of my receivers freak out I'll try going to channel 1 and see what happens! I've tried it in the past but that was before - now the trouble is much more noticable so I'll give it another go.


If it takes a couple of weeks for it to happen, this should keep you quiet for a month or so. :lol:


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

veryoldschool said:


> If it takes a couple of weeks for it to happen, this should keep you quiet for a month or so. :lol:


Very little chance of that!:lol:

I guess if no one else starts a thread about having a slow/non-responsive receiver it could happen... But you know we can't go more than a day or two before someone says they have a slow receiver.

That will keep my flapping day-in-day-out until DirecTV hires some engineers!

I think DirecTV does this just for me!


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> Very little chance of that!:lol:


I seem to remember hearing about Dish rebooting theirs in the middle of the night to keep them working. Not sure if they still do or not, as it was "a while back".


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

veryoldschool said:


> I seem to remember hearing about Dish rebooting theirs in the middle of the night to keep them working. Not sure if they still do or not, as it was "a while back".


I've considered putting a timer on my receivers to cut the power every night. The only thing that has stopped me is that I'm sure that DirecTV's engineers didn't take into consideration 'dirty' shutdowns - especially a daily dirty shutdown.


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## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

sigma1914 said:


> I recently bought a H25... WOW, this thing is fast. Are all non DVRs this quick? It's definitely the fastest unit I've used...I've had a HR20-700, HR24-100 & -500, HR34, & C31.


That's the point! Almost all other non-DirecTV ***DVRs*** are that quick! So when a customer switches to DirecTV, he's not blown away by the picture quality or the number of channels as he should be. Instead, he's frustrated that it sometimes takes 5 -30 seconds for the box to acknowledge that a button was pressed.

He's also frustrated that his receiver or DVR takes a long time to reboot, and that it will be even slower than usual for 48 hours after it has been rebooted, because no other provider has that problem.

It also irks him that he has to turn to a specific channel once a week so the box can do something magical to speed itself up (if it's that magical, why doesn't D* just have the box automatically do that once a week?)


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Mike Greer said:


> I've considered putting a timer on my receivers to cut the power every night. The only thing that has stopped me is that I'm sure that DirecTV's engineers didn't take into consideration 'dirty' shutdowns - especially a daily dirty shutdown.


I suspect you'd find the potential risk to the hard drives inside of any HD DVRs would be far more of an issue than any engineer.

As for just HD receivers.... :shrug:


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

bobcamp1 said:


> Instead, he's frustrated that it sometimes takes 5 -30 seconds for the box to acknowledge that a button was pressed.


In the past nine years, maybe I've had to wait 5 secs, but never 30 sec.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I suspect you'd find the potential risk to the hard drives inside of any HD DVRs would be far more of an issue than any engineer.
> 
> As for just HD receivers.... :shrug:


Perhaps.... Maybe I just need a little robot to RBR once a week for me.

As for just HD receivers - I don't think the sluggishness hits those - at least not any that I've seen.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

veryoldschool said:


> In the past nine years, maybe I've had to wait 5 secs, but never 30 sec.


Maybe your name should be 'veryluckyman'!


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Mike Greer said:


> Perhaps.... Maybe I just need a little robot to RBR once a week for me.
> 
> As for just HD receivers - I don't think the sluggishness hits those - at least not any that I've seen.


Try this: Instead of posting your problems to every thread, cut out posting to one thread per week. That'll save you two minutes. With half that time, one minute just before you hit the hay, go to menu-Reset, confirm, dash, and you're done.....:eek2:


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> Maybe your name should be 'veryluckyman'!


I know there are some with problems I don't or haven't seen, but "really" waiting 30 sec? 
The only time I've ever seen anything like that was because the coffee table was in the way on my remote or I was pointing it to the back wall. :lol:


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## PCampbell (Nov 18, 2006)

I had the slowdown and missing buttons on my HR24-100 this weekend and it turned out to be old battery's in the remote. Replaced today and it is back normal. It was not slow just missing button press.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Laxguy said:


> Try this: Instead of posting your problems to every thread, cut out posting to one thread per week. That'll save you two minutes. With half that time, one minute just before you hit the hay, go to menu-Reset, confirm, dash, and you're done.....:eek2:


First - you'd miss me.

Second - it would screw up recordings I have either currently running or ones that would start in the 20 minutes or so it takes to restart.

If there was a sticky at the top called 'My HRXX is freaking slow. What can I do?' then all these people starting these threads could just post there....

Or... DirecTV could fix them? I know, now I'm talking crazy!


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

veryoldschool said:


> I know there are some with problems I don't or haven't seen, but "really" waiting 30 sec?
> The only time I've ever seen anything like that was because the coffee table was in the way on my remote or I was pointing it to the back wall. :lol:


I don't typically have to wait that long... At least not since I got rid of the HR22s - then it really could be 30 seconds before I would get a response.

The only time I have to wait that long now is when the receiver just goes away for 1 to 4 or maybe even 5 minutes then comes back to life. I avoid those by restarting every week.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

PCampbell said:


> I had the slowdown and missing buttons on my HR24-100 this weekend and it turned out to be old battery's in the remote. Replaced today and it is back normal. It was not slow just missing button press.


Huh, maybe I should try replacing my batteries and moving that coffee table. Wish I would have found dbstalk sooner - I could of avoided all these troubles!


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> I don't typically have to wait that long... At least not since I got rid of the HR22s - then it really could be 30 seconds before I would get a response.
> 
> The only time I have to wait that long now is when the receiver just goes away for 1 to 4 or maybe even 5 minutes then comes back to life. I avoid those by restarting every week.


I "canned" my HR21 when I got my HR24, since I just didn't need 3 [at the time]. I just never ever had to wait as long as some here have posted. Maybe I just knew it needed a reboot and if that didn't help, it would have been throw out long ago.
A year back, I had a mover's connection and told the tech my HR20-700 [which was still working fine] wouldn't do 3D, so it was "broke". He swapped it for a HR24, which I hoped would have been the same as my friend had gotten, so I could see what type of problems he might have. Instead I got another HR24-500, but hey the price was right. :lol:


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## Barry in Conyers (Jan 14, 2008)

My two HR24-500's respond to commands quickly about 90-95% of the time. The other 5-10%, the response is either slooooow or non-existent. The problem is most pronounced when trying to use the guide. The sloooooow / non-existent remote command response problem has NOT always existed, so it is NOT a hardware problem.

The problem will go away when senior management at DirecTV makes it clear that they want the problem solved or else (i.e.; they tell the head code monkey to solve the problem or they will find someone else to do the job).


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Barry in Conyers said:


> The problem will go away when senior management at DirecTV makes it clear that they want the problem solved or else (i.e.; they tell the head code monkey to solve the problem or they will find someone else to do the job).


"Yeah", I'm sure they currently just don't care.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

I went to Channel 1 and waited for 5 minutes and then Entered Channel 360 and it worked like a Charm (this is with an HR23-700).

I don't know how often I need to go to Channel 1 but I guess I will do it first thing when I use that DVR.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

I got to channel 1 about once a week on the 2 HR24s that I control. Keeps things as fast as they are going to be.

The only place it doesn't seem to have an effect, and the sole place I've seen 30 seconds plus waiting, is when I delete shows from the playlist. Often it gives the 'refreshing playlist' or some such for quite a long while.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

lparsons21 said:


> The only place it doesn't seem to have an effect, and the sole place I've seen 30 seconds plus waiting, is when I delete shows from the playlist. Often it gives the 'refreshing playlist' or some such for quite a long while.


"Delete shows", sounds like you're deleting shows from more than the local DVR, which can take a bit longer for each other receiver to report back the status.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

lparsons21 said:


> I got to channel 1 about once a week on the 2 HR24s that I control. Keeps things as fast as they are going to be.
> 
> The only place it doesn't seem to have an effect, and the sole place I've seen 30 seconds plus waiting, is when I delete shows from the playlist. Often it gives the 'refreshing playlist' or some such for quite a long while.


I don't have Whole Home DVR and I get the Refreshing Playlist on my HR23 when I delete a show / program once in awhile. I haven't paid that much attention to it but it does not show it that often. It might be when I delete something that is more than 2 hours long or it could just be popping up every "X" amount of programs that you delete.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> "Delete shows", sounds like you're deleting shows from more than the local DVR, which can take a bit longer for each other receiver to report back the status.


Sometimes yes, other times no! 

I have 2 of the HR24s stacked on my AV rack which are for my sole use. I delete a show after I watch it and get the slow refresh and it doesn't seem to matter whether the show I'm deleting is on the one I'm controlling or across the network or not.

Of course, when I do some mass deletings I fully expect it to take a bit of time, but not for a single show deletion regardless of location.

For info, both units have more than 50% free almost all the time.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

lparsons21 said:


> Sometimes yes, other times no!
> 
> I have 2 of the HR24s stacked on my AV rack which are for my sole use. I delete a show after I watch it and get the slow refresh and it doesn't seem to matter whether the show I'm deleting is on the one I'm controlling or across the network or not.
> 
> ...


I have three, and recordings are a mix from all of them. I too see this delay sometimes.
"Maybe" it has to do with having to rebuild the whole playlist.
I guess if one turned off sharing and only had a local playlist, it might show if MRV was having any affect.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Mike Greer said:


> I'd love to blame something in my 'environment' but whatever is causing trouble in my environment would also have to be in a bunch of others environments as posted in multiple threads here.
> 
> I'd push DirecTV to replace the HR24 I use the most except that I'd lose my recordings and spending $600 to dump my POS HR22s only fixed my problem until the HDGUI came out. I don't really want to go down that road again.... Besides I'd have to tell DirecTV the receiver was completely dead before they would replace it anyway - don't want to do that either. With my luck they'd send me an HR22 to replace the HR24 - I'd probably get one the 3 HR22s I sent back that they have no doubt been shipping back and forth to poor saps since I returned them to DirecTV!
> 
> ...


The 24-500s do seem to be a bit wackier than the other two models. Hard to put an external drive on them. I do like them better than the 100 or 200, but if you get a wacky one (or three.. :lol they can drive you crazy. When they work properly, they are very good DVRs. I think.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Richierich said:


> REALLY!!!
> 
> It seemed to work for me but the reason it worked is that you had to be on Channel 1 for at least 30 seconds for it to Clear the NVRAM, is this right???


I never saw any change in my HRs when I tried it, but I liked pressing all the buttons and getting a message back. Felt fulfilled, I did.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> "I don't know" so it would be interesting to see how this works or if it doesn't.
> 
> First we need a guinea pig that has this problem.
> 
> ...


Fortunately, this little piggy has little trouble with slowness. Now if there were some trick to speed up deleting a bunch of recordings, that would be a huge help for me. I dumped about 50 episodes of a show that we didn't want the other day and it took quite a while and then the 500 was unresponsive to remote commands for a period of time, something I notice every time I delete a few episodes of something.

Rich


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Rich said:


> Fortunately, this little piggy has little trouble with slowness. Now if there were some trick to speed up deleting a bunch of recordings, that would be a huge help for me. I dumped about 50 episodes of a show that we didn't want the other day and it took quite a while and then the 500 was unresponsive to remote commands for a period of time, something I notice every time I delete a few episodes of something.
> 
> Rich


I've got nothing for a 50 show delete. :eek2:


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> I have three, and recordings are a mix from all of them. I too see this delay sometimes.
> "Maybe" it has to do with having to rebuild the whole playlist.
> I guess if one turned off sharing and only had a local playlist, it might show if MRV was having any affect.


Well, I have 3 also, but I only control 2 of them. My son has one that he shares, but his TV preferences really suck! :lol:

Wouldn't just filtering to show only the local list then delete accomplish the same thing as the refresh across the MRV?

But for all of that, I'm pretty used to the lack of really fast performance from D* gear, so it has been something I see, but don't think a lot about.


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## Barry in Conyers (Jan 14, 2008)

veryoldschool said:


> "Yeah", I'm sure they currently just don't care.


Do you have any verifiable information to suggest that they do care?


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> I've got nothing for a 50 show delete. :eek2:


I've also got about 90 episodes of _Blue Bloods_ and even more of _Hawaii Five O_. Both shows I don't want to watch but the wife won't let me delete. Like she's ever gonna watch them. Sometimes the massive deletions go a lot quicker than I expect, sometimes not.

Rich


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Barry in Conyers said:


> Do you have any verifiable information to suggest that they do care?


"verifiable"? no, but I have personal experience that does.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Rich said:


> I've also got about 90 episodes of _Blue Bloods_ and even more of _Hawaii Five O_. Both shows I don't want to watch but the wife won't let me delete. Like she's ever gonna watch them. Sometimes the massive deletions go a lot quicker than I expect, sometimes not.
> 
> Rich


NOW I know why you have all those HDDVRs. You are nothing but an elitist show hog!! :lol:

I've not yet had any series get more than about a dozen episodes behind, I cannot imagine saving beyond that.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

lparsons21 said:


> NOW I know why you have all those HDDVRs. You are nothing but an elitist show hog!! :lol:
> 
> I've not yet had any series get more than about a dozen episodes behind, I cannot imagine saving beyond that.


I've got a couple of folders that have exceeded a dozen. I'm playing catchup with Castle & Fringe, as I started watching them long after they first started.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Rich said:


> The 24-500s do seem to be a bit wackier than the other two models. Hard to put an external drive on them. I do like them better than the 100 or 200, but if you get a wacky one (or three.. :lol they can drive you crazy. When they work properly, they are very good DVRs. I think.
> 
> Rich


All three of my HR24-500s did slow down with the HDGUI but they don't all behave the same. The one I use the most is the biggest problem child.

I would attempt at getting them to replace it but the way my luck goes I'll get one of my original HR22s back! And I'm not a big fan of telling them it is dead so they will actually replace it.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

veryoldschool said:


> "verifiable"? no, but I have personal experience that does.


I believe you but it does seem that it is a very very low priority because a quick search here shows these complaints have been around since the beginning.

I wish we could bump it up a couple steps on the list....

They must make sure that all of management/directors etc get HR24s that work.... They must also make sure that only updates that have been out for a few months and are well tested by the public get sent out to 'those' receivers.

I can't imagine anyone with a vested interest in DirecTV being happy if they ever sit down and do a side-by-side with Dish Network receivers.

I'd think that upper management would ask why Dish Network can make such peppy receivers that cost less. At least that's has been implied in the lease vs own threads here...


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Rich said:


> Fortunately, this little piggy has little trouble with slowness. Now if there were some trick to speed up deleting a bunch of recordings, that would be a huge help for me. I dumped about 50 episodes of a show that we didn't want the other day and it took quite a while and then the 500 was unresponsive to remote commands for a period of time, something I notice every time I delete a few episodes of something.
> 
> Rich


Wow!:grin:


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> I believe you but it does seem that it is a very very low priority because a quick search here shows these complaints have been around since the beginning.
> 
> I wish we could bump it up a couple steps on the list....
> 
> ...


There are all sorts of variables here.
Maybe a primary is those that don't have a slowness don't post, while those that do find a thread and post.
"I know" I would be *****ing if I had a problem and hell, that's how I found this place in the first place.

I'll go out on a limb here and guess DirecTV knows exactly what dish is doing.

In my time here, one thing I've learned is almost everyone uses these in different ways, from channels viewed, to the remote buttons pushed, and this doesn't even get into all the different combinations of equipment we connect them to.

Do I hate the banner ad? You bet!!!
Do I hate scoreguide? yep, there's another thing I'd like to turn off never to be seen again [here].

My TV takes 2 sec to change OTA channels.
My receiver takes 3 sec, which isn't bad, BUT!!!! if I change from 720p to 1080i or back it takes 8 sec. Do I like waiting 5 more sec? nope.

Cable here is a good 1/3rd more cost than what I have, and "I'm told" they send everything in 720, so I lose detail on 1080i programing.

U-verse only uses 66% of the bit-rate that I get with DirecTV [I've been able to compare the same show at the same time] and they "solve" the tuning speed by not letting you change resolution. 
You set it up for:
480
480 widescreen
720p
1080i
"pick one", but it won't fit all you watch.

I'd be foolish to try to say things will improve, as it would just get those with a history of problems laughing at me. :lol:

What we have seen:
The HR20 was faster than the HR21-23s.
The HR24 is the fastest of the HR2x.
The H25 seems the fastest of anything.
The HR34 has a lot going on and IMO isn't as fast as my HR24.
"If the trend follows" the next HMC will be faster than the HR34.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

I hear you. I've gotten so used to the relative slowness that I don't even complain much any more. Of course, now and then I'll join a thread that is *****ing about the performance! 

You know the old saying 'you can get used to hanging if you just hang long enough!'


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## acostapimps (Nov 6, 2011)

I'm starting to think if you have EHD full of recordings it slows down but when using the stock hard drive from DVR it's a hit or miss sometimes but responds better IMHO


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

inkahauts said:


> Darn active channel is good for something I guess... Maybe I should set a manual recording for that channel for once a week for five minutes. Let it do an auto cleansing.





veryoldschool said:


> An interesting concept, but I wonder if recording would be different than having the "live tuner" tune to it.
> 
> "Seems like" a recording to the drive wouldn't be the same.


I've bounced this idea of "my people" to see what they think.
They too have doubts that a recording would work.

Their advice is to simply hit the exit button when you're on a sports channel to kill the interactive app (ScoreGuide). This might be a pain, as every time you do anything [like go into the guide, etc.] and return to the live channel, the scoreguide returns active, so you'd need to press exit again.

This is the word on going to channel one: all that's really happening when you go to channel 1 is killing the bigger interactive app.

I have to say this makes the most sense from my own experience.
I never use "active channels", and rarely go to "live" channels with scoreguide, so my receivers aren't slowing down.
My friend with a HR24 does the opposite, where he spends "forever" on sports channels with scoreguide, and had problems every two weeks or so.

I guess the question for those with slowing down is what happens if:

You find a non-interactive channel to park on or consciously hit the exit key to make sure the interactive app is closed?

As I hope some will realize, this does have DirecTV's attention.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

If that turns out to be the facts,
I would think an option in the setup menus to turn that on or off would be a possibility.
I watch a lot of sports but never use the interactive score thing.
For me I would just leave it turned OFF.

Pressing the Exit key is certainly faster and easier than going to Channel 1 and sitting there for awhile. Fact is, I press the Exit key a lot in my every day use.

Thanks for the post veryoldschool.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

I almost never watch anything live so the interactive channels don't really come into play for me. But yet I still get the slowness at times, and of course, the more often than it should remote ignoring.

In the end, I usually go to channel 1 for awhile once a week to keep things as peppy as they seem to ever be.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

jimmie57 said:


> If that turns out to be the facts,
> I would think an option in the setup menus to turn that on or off would be a possibility.
> I watch a lot of sports but never use the interactive score thing.
> For me I would just leave it turned OFF.
> ...


I've asked from the beginning to have the option to turn scoreguide off/on, but it doesn't seem to get any traction.

"It would be nice" if it would be modified so it only comes up when you first tune to the channel, where you can press exit and be done with it, instead of it ALWAYS returning if you do things like look at the guide or playlist and then come back to live TV.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

lparsons21 said:


> I almost never watch anything live so the interactive channels don't really come into play for me. But yet I still get the slowness at times, and of course, the more often than it should remote ignoring.
> 
> In the end, I usually go to channel 1 for awhile once a week to keep things as peppy as they seem to ever be.


So you're saying you never watch sports channels with scoreguide, or find one on the TV when you exit a recording?


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> So you're saying you never watch sports channels with scoreguide, or find one on the TV when you exit a recording?


Well, I won't say never, but it is very seldom. Typically I watch ESPN2 when they have boxing on. Any of the other ESPNs only get watched for some major golf events like the Masters. But even then I'm usually watching recordings.

And no, I've not found one on the TV when I exit a recording, or at least if I have it has been long enough ago not to remember.

Basically here's the scenario. When switching channels, I most often get decent response and change times. On some occasions, at least a few times a week, I will get some additional slowness which is cured with a switch to channel 1.

On some, but not all occasions of deleting or stopping a playback, I get the 'please wait' for 30 seconds or longer. Nothing I do changes that. It just happens and I just wait.

My setup isn't prime for speed as I like certain functions. I have Native set to ON and 480i/p-720p-1080i/p selected for resolutions. And I know this has an effect of channel change speed, but letting my AVR do the de-interlacing and upscaling gives me a better picture. I see that as a trade-off that isn't a problem for me.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Just realized why I seldom see the dialog re the Red Key: I watch almost everything recorded, even if it's just a second behind live. Another benefit: I've not lost a buffer in years that I've cared about. 
Agree it can be annoying when it pops up and has to be dismissed, but I usually actually review it when it does pop up- NCAA FB and Pro FB. Hockey last year, some golf, tennis and soccer from time to time.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

lparsons21 said:


> Well, I won't say never, but it is very seldom. Typically I watch ESPN2 when they have boxing on. Any of the other ESPNs only get watched for some major golf events like the Masters. But even then I'm usually watching recordings.
> 
> And no, I've not found one on the TV when I exit a recording, or at least if I have it has been long enough ago not to remember.
> 
> ...


SpeedTV, ESPN, and sometimes TNT are those with scoreguide "that I've seen".

If going to channel one does help, the most plausible reason to date is it's due to the interactive app.

Channel changing and using native on, isn't going to change by going to channel one.
"Please wait" for deleting recordings and MRV can also be something else.

"I tend to think" you're tuning to more scoreguide channels than you think.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

the Golf Channel 218 also has it the scoreguide button.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

Along with the Scoreguide, is the "Active" button possibly causing the same problem ?

Thanks


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

jimmie57 said:


> Along with the Scoreguide, is the "Active" button possibly causing the same problem ?
> 
> Thanks


It would have you on an "interactive" channel, so I figure it would, though I never use it.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> SpeedTV, ESPN, and sometimes TNT are those with scoreguide "that I've seen".
> 
> If going to channel one does help, the most plausible reason to date is it's due to the interactive app.
> 
> ...


If I watched live events really 'live', then I wouldn't disagree. But I can't tell you the last time I watched a live sports event 'live', all were recorded and played back on my schedule. That shouldn't cause the interactive stuff to be an issue. But then, maybe it does even if you just record a show that has the interactive stuff available???

The only thing I watch live is during the day watching some incessant rerun of something just for noise in the house. All my actual pay-attention viewing is from recordings.

And yes I'm very aware that Native ON the way I have it set has a negative effect on speed that isn't going to be affected by going to channel 1. But when things get slower than my 'normal', going there does help.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

lparsons21 said:


> If I watched live events really 'live', then I wouldn't disagree. But I can't tell you the last time I watched a live sports event 'live', all were recorded and played back on my schedule. That shouldn't cause the interactive stuff to be an issue. But then, maybe it does even if you just record a show that has the interactive stuff available???
> 
> The only thing I watch live is during the day watching some incessant rerun of something just for noise in the house. All my actual pay-attention viewing is from recordings.
> 
> And yes I'm very aware that Native ON the way I have it set has a negative effect on speed that isn't going to be affected by going to channel 1. But when things get slower than my 'normal', going there does help.


Have you tried unchecking the 480 resoolution and just have the 720p and 1080i checked. I have mine set this way with Native ON. It appeared to me that the 480 caused a noticeable slowdown when changing channels compared to just having the 720 and 1080 checked.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

lparsons21 said:


> If I watched live events really 'live', then I wouldn't disagree. But I can't tell you the last time I watched a live sports event 'live', all were recorded and played back on my schedule. That shouldn't cause the interactive stuff to be an issue. But then, maybe it does even if you just record a show that has the interactive stuff available???


The recordings don't have it, but to record a tuner must tune to them, so if this is the "live tuner" [what you would see for live TV], then it seems that the DVR would have the scoreguide active.

Let me try this another way:

I park my DVR on my local NBC most of the time. Sometimes I turn it on and it's on another channel because a recording needed the tuner. Since it's buffering all the time, this channel has been tuned to since the end of the recording, and if this was a scoreguide channel, it seems it would have been on the whole time.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

jimmie57 said:


> Have you tried unchecking the 480 resoolution and just have the 720p and 1080i checked. I have mine set this way with Native ON. It appeared to me that the 480 caused a noticeable slowdown when changing channels compared to just having the 720 and 1080 checked.


If you're using another scaler for better PQ, you really want to have 480 being sent to it, as it needs the most help.

I just rechecked my tune times between 480, 1080, & 720, and they're about 3 secs.

I can't go into the how or why, but it is a sign of things to come and a good thing too.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

jimmie57 said:


> Have you tried unchecking the 480 resoolution and just have the 720p and 1080i checked. I have mine set this way with Native ON. It appeared to me that the 480 caused a noticeable slowdown when changing channels compared to just having the 720 and 1080 checked.


I have mine set the way I do because there are some SD shows I really enjoy. My Denon 2113ci AVR does a MUCH better job of de-interlacing and upscaling the 480i on those SD shows which makes them enjoyable even if not HD.

And it also does a better job of upscaling the 720p and 1080i than does the TV itself.

So yes, I could do that and probably get a little better speed but at the expense of not really enjoying those few SD shows I like. For me, the speed difference isn't enough to matter.

Only when it slows down beyond that 'normal' speed does it make a difference.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> The recordings don't have it, but to record a tuner must tune to them, so if this is the "live tuner" [what you would see for live TV], then it seems that the DVR would have the scoreguide active.
> 
> Let me try this another way:
> 
> I park my DVR on my local NBC most of the time. Sometimes I turn it on and it's on another channel because a recording needed the tuner. Since it's buffering all the time, this channel has been tuned to since the end of the recording, and if this was a scoreguide channel, it seems it would have been on the whole time.


Unless I misunderstand, you think that even if I'm recording on a tuner that is tuned to a channel that has the interactive stuff, it is affecting the performance of the DVR? It does seem that way IF the interactive stuff is the culprit.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

lparsons21 said:


> Unless I misunderstand, you think that even if I'm recording on a tuner that is tuned to a channel that has the interactive stuff, it is affecting the performance of the DVR? It does seem that way IF the interactive stuff is the culprit.


That's "what I'm thinking".


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

veryoldschool said:


> If you're using another scaler for better PQ, you really want to have 480 being sent to it, as it needs the most help.
> 
> I just rechecked my tune times between 480, 1080, & 720, and they're about 3 secs.
> 
> I can't go into the how or why, but it is a sign of things to come and a good thing too.


I have no SD channels in my favorites list.
I do not think I have watched a 480 program since I upgraded to HD over 3 years ago ( except on my R15 I had in the bedroom, that was upgraded to an HR24 in June of this year ).


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

jimmie57 said:


> I have no SD channels in my favorites list.
> I do not think I have watched a 480 program since I upgraded to HD over 3 years ago ( except on my R15 I had in the bedroom, that was upgraded to an HR24 in June of this year ).


Then you don't need it, but for some of us, there are still SD channels with good programing.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

veryoldschool said:


> If you're using another scaler for better PQ, you really want to have 480 being sent to it, as it needs the most help.
> 
> I just rechecked my tune times between 480, 1080, & 720, and they're about 3 secs.
> 
> I can't go into the how or why, but *it is a sign of things to come* and a good thing too.


Posters are now listing 0x62C software down loaded on their HR24s last night.
Maybe this is it.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> Then you don't need it, but for some of us, there are still SD channels with good programing.


Yes there are!

Bomb Girls, XIII, Beauty & the Beast, Arrow and a slew of others that are not in HD on D* yet.

Actually in my case B&B and Arrow are on the CW local channel that is a very bit starved SD sub-channel of one of the others. Nothing D* can do about that.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

jimmie57 said:


> Posters are now listing 0x62C software down loaded on their HR24s last night.
> Maybe this is it.


I don't think there is any "maybe" about this.
That is what I have on my 24 and it is this quick.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

Can you get them to beam it to Mike Greer right away ?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

jimmie57 said:


> Can you get them to beam it to Mike Greer right away ?


Everyone should know by now that Mike is in the back of the bus. !rolling


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

veryoldschool said:


> Everyone should know by now that Mike is in the back of the bus. !rolling


Hell, I'm not even on the bus! I'm hitchhiking and not sure where I am.... As you all well know.

In this case however, I did get the update this morning. I haven't used the receivers to see what's up but maybe there is hope? I guess I'll know in a couple of weeks.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> Hell, I'm not even on the bus!


So you missed the "short bus" again? :lol:


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

veryoldschool said:


> So you missed the "short bus" again? :lol:


The 'short bus' was full of DirecTV software engineers!:lol:


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## Barry in Conyers (Jan 14, 2008)

veryoldschool said:


> As I hope some will realize, this does have DirecTV's attention.


Caring and attention are good, but the ongoing problem (intermittent in my case) of sloooooow / non-responsive DVR's suggests a lack of senior management priority, allocated resources or technical competence.

I hope the 0x62C firmware update will improve the situation, but history does not suggest that would be a good bet.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Barry in Conyers said:


> I hope the 0x62C firmware update will improve the situation, but history does not suggest that would be a good bet.


I know it's addressed "one thing".

The same half full glass of water can be viewed two ways.


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## tomski35 (Sep 7, 2007)

Elaborate please.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

tomski35 said:


> Elaborate please.


Not sure who you're addressing here, but if you go back a few replies, you'll see where the channel changing time has changed from 8 sec back down to 3 sec for me.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

lparsons21 said:


> NOW I know why you have all those HDDVRs. You are nothing but an elitist show hog!! :lol:


I think I resemble that remark... :lol:



> I've not yet had any series get more than about a dozen episodes behind, I cannot imagine saving beyond that.


Wife travels a lot and we don't get that much time to watch TV together. Why we are hanging onto some of these shows is beyond me. Ask the wife.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Mike Greer said:


> All three of my HR24-500s did slow down with the HDGUI but they don't all behave the same. The one I use the most is the biggest problem child.


Out of my 12 HRs, I only use 3 normally. I do have one 24-500 that seems to be a tad insane at time and I use that as a server. Don't forget, all these slow HRs (the whole 21 series) make good servers.



> I would attempt at getting them to replace it but the way my luck goes I'll get one of my original HR22s back! And I'm not a big fan of telling them it is dead so they will actually replace it.


Policy is to get a 24 if possible if your 24 is shot. Doesn't mean you'll get another 500, tho. I've got a couple 24-100s and they run pretty well.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

jimmie57 said:


> Can you get them to beam it to Mike Greer right away ?


Won't do a bit of good, Mike is cursed by the Gods of D*.... :lol:

Rich


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Rich said:


> Won't do a bit of good, Mike is cursed by the Gods of D*.... :lol:
> 
> Rich


Ain't that the truth!

So far so good with 0x62C but I am usually ok until about 10 days or so after a restart so we'll see.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Well, I'm miffed! 

Mike got his and I'm still here on 0x5d2.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

lparsons21 said:


> Well, I'm miffed!
> 
> Mike got his and I'm still here on 0x5d2.


I am usually a few weeks behind when I see a new release come out before I get it. I am still running D2.
It seems that they start in the west, jump to the east and then come back to central US.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

I'm a little afraid! I don't usually get the updates in the first wave....

I'll hide under the covers until it is safe to come out.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

Mike Greer said:


> I'm a little afraid! I don't usually get the updates in the first wave....
> 
> I'll hide under the covers until it is safe to come out.


Maybe they have been reading your posts. LOL

Glad you got it early since you have had so much trouble.

Did you ever make a favorite ? it only takes a few minutes if you only put 10 or 20 channels in it.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

lparsons21 said:


> Well, I'm miffed!
> 
> Mike got his and I'm still here on 0x5d2.


Usually goes out to the western states first then works its way across the country.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Mike Greer said:


> I'm a little afraid! I don't usually get the updates in the first wave....
> 
> I'll hide under the covers until it is safe to come out.


They're obviously toying with you. Next the black helicopters will start flying overhead... :lol:

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

jimmie57 said:


> Maybe they have been reading your posts. LOL
> 
> Glad you got it early since you have had so much trouble.
> 
> Did you ever make a favorite ? it only takes a few minutes if you only put 10 or 20 channels in it.


Of course D* reads his posts. How else could they maintain his level of service in such a wonderful manner... :lol:

Rich


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

jimmie57 said:


> Maybe they have been reading your posts. LOL
> 
> Glad you got it early since you have had so much trouble.
> 
> Did you ever make a favorite ? it only takes a few minutes if you only put 10 or 20 channels in it.


If they had been readin my posts they would have just cut off my service by now!

I did - much quicker that way! See here: http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=3136593&postcount=113


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Rich said:


> They're obviously toying with you. Next the black helicopters will start flying overhead... :lol:
> 
> Rich





Rich said:


> Of course D* reads his posts. How else could they maintain his level of service in such a wonderful manner... :lol:
> 
> Rich


I knew I heard helicopters last night! I'm sure they were just checking my dish for proper alignment and making sure my batteries are fresh!


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

Mike Greer said:


> If they had been readin my posts they would have just cut off my service by now!
> 
> I did - much quicker that way! See here: http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=3136593&postcount=113


Thanks , I missed that somehow.
Glad it worked for you.


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## wrj (Nov 23, 2006)

I must admit, I didn't read through all the posts but my HR22 is somewhat okay at times but at other times, it slows to a crawl when advancing through the guide or changing channels. It seems like minutes (though I'm sure its much shorter) to move forward after a key press while in the guide or to change to another channel. Also, at times, the remote seems not to want to take in key presses very well and changes to channels I didn't want. In fact, I have two RC64R's and it happens to both.

I have several friends with Dish and they wonder why I would put up with this. Well I been with DTV for sometime and keep hoping it will improve.

So my question, if I upgraded to a HR24 or HR34 (assuming I could do that), would the performance improve significantly? My other option is obviously to go to Dish.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

wrj said:


> I must admit, I didn't read through all the posts but my HR22 is somewhat okay at times but at other times, it slows to a crawl when advancing through the guide or changing channels. It seems like minutes (though I'm sure its much shorter) to move forward after a key press while in the guide or to change to another channel. Also, at times, the remote seems not to want to take in key presses very well and changes to channels I didn't want. In fact, I have two RC64R's and it happens to both.
> 
> I have several friends with Dish and they wonder why I would put up with this. Well I been with DTV for sometime and keep hoping it will improve.
> 
> So my question, if I upgraded to a HR24 or HR34 (assuming I could do that), would the performance improve significantly? My other option is obviously to go to Dish.


A 24 will simply blow that 22-100 away.

Rich


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

"Rich" said:


> A 24 will simply blow that 22-100 away.
> 
> Rich


You are being kind.


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## stroh (Oct 18, 2004)

I started this thread on 11/16/12 and got my HR34/C31 installed on 11/19/12 and I have to say that everything I was complaining about has been corrected. I haven't had any problems with the new setup. Remote response is as it should be, menu/guide speed is vastly improved and quite acceptable, and the extra tuners and PIP are a bonus! 

The only hiccup is that my wife doesn't like that she can't delete shows from the C31 after she has finished watching (no keep or delete popup at the end).


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

"stroh" said:


> I started this thread on 11/16/12 and got my HR34/C31 installed on 11/19/12 and I have to say that everything I was complaining about has been corrected. I haven't had any problems with the new setup. Remote response is as it should be, menu/guide speed is vastly improved and quite acceptable, and the extra tuners and PIP are a bonus!
> 
> The only hiccup is that my wife doesn't like that she can't delete shows from the C31 after she has finished watching (no keep or delete popup at the end).


That's a bug. First try making sure that all the settings in Whole Home Service section of settings are set to allow, and if that has no effect, do a search here abut that issue, there are a couple threads about it. It may be in the way DIRECTV set it up, and they may need to redo some authorization on their end.

Glad you are liking it!


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## wrj (Nov 23, 2006)

Rich said:


> A 24 will simply blow that 22-100 away.
> 
> Rich


Thanks, am I safe in assuming that a HR34 is also faster than a HR22?


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Yes, though some say it as fast as a 24, but does a lot more work.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

dpeters11 said:


> Yes, though some say it [*isn't*] as fast as a 24, but does a lot more work.


Was this what you meant?


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Yeah, dang iPad


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## tomski35 (Sep 7, 2007)

In response to the original post, all DVRs 24 and below are sloooow! Regular receivers are snappy. I have no experience with the 34 as DTV wants to sodomize in exchange for one them.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Is it really fair to compare something that only runs in memory compared to a hard drive? Memory always wins compared to a rotating disc.

And we won't be seeing solid state DVRs in the foreseeable future.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

"dpeters11" said:


> Is it really fair to compare something that only runs in memory compared to a hard drive? Memory always wins compared to a rotating disc.
> 
> And we won't be seeing solid state DVRs in the foreseeable future.


I really don't think the speed issues are all that related to having hard drives. They just plain flat out do a hole lot more though, so you can't expect the exact same performance.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

For things like guide performance, I think it does make a difference.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

tomski35 said:


> In response to the original post, all DVRs 24 and below are sloooow!


All 4 of my HR24-500s are Fast so maybe something is wrong in the way you have yours setup.

I run a Customized Guide which helps speed up the Guide a bit.


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## wrj (Nov 23, 2006)

inkahauts said:


> I really don't think the speed issues are all that related to having hard drives. They just plain flat out do a hole lot more though, so you can't expect the exact same performance.


But you have to ask yourself, why are the DISH DVRs so much faster. They also have a lot of functionality. I suspect it is either with the software design, or hardware implementation, or both. Poor software design can kill a systems performance.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

inkahauts said:


> You are being kind.


Yes. My first thought about that post was: A 24 will simply blow that POS 22-100 away.... :lol:

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

wrj said:


> Thanks, am I safe in assuming that a HR34 is also faster than a HR22?


If you have a slow 22, any properly working 20-700, 24, 34 will be faster.

Rich


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Richierich said:


> All 4 of my HR24-500s are Fast so maybe something is wrong in the way you have yours setup.
> 
> I run a Customized Guide which helps speed up the Guide a bit.


All 3 of my HR24-500s are Slow so maybe something is wrong in the way you have yours setup.

Not really - just sayin!

It is just as wrong for you to assume that all HR24s are fast as it is for others to assume that all HR24s are slow.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Rich said:


> If you have a slow 22, any properly working 20-700, 24, 34 will be faster.
> 
> Rich


Even a dead fish is faster!

I can see it now... DirecTV's new marketing - 'Our DVRs are faster than dead fish'.


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## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

Rich said:


> If you have a slow 22, any properly working 20-700, 24, 34 will be faster.
> 
> Rich


My slow 20-700 was the primary reason I switched to FiOS 14 months ago. And I did try all the tricks mentioned on this board as of a year ago to fix the problem. None worked for more than a couple days.

The secondary reason for switching was to save a few bucks.

A third minor reason was to get CNN International and BBC World News.

A fourth reason was to get all the music channels FiOS offers in one tier rather than spread out over several tiers.

A fifth reason became apparent when I saw the breadth of VOD offerings from FiOS compared with DirecTV.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

"wrj" said:


> But you have to ask yourself, why are the DISH DVRs so much faster. They also have a lot of functionality. I suspect it is either with the software design, or hardware implementation, or both. Poor software design can kill a systems performance.


Like I said, I don't think its hard drive related. There are other things that I think affect the speed far more.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

"Mike Greer" said:


> All 3 of my HR24-500s are Slow so maybe something is wrong in the way you have yours setup.
> 
> Not really - just sayin!
> 
> It is just as wrong for you to assume that all HR24s are fast as it is for others to assume that all HR24s are slow.


When was the last time you flushed all our guides? Ad have you tried seeing what happens if you disconnect the Internet from your system as well? It's really just not normal to have slow hr24s.


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## wrj (Nov 23, 2006)

inkahauts said:


> Like I said, I don't think its hard drive related. There are other things that I think affect the speed far more.


I agree


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

inkahauts said:


> Like I said, I don't think its hard drive related. There are other things that I think affect the speed far more.


These "slowness" threads are enough to drive anyone crazy. Short drive for me.... :lol:

But seriously, what we've got to look at is exactly what is "slow" about the DVRs. I've only got 20-700s and 24s, and they aren't what I'd call slow when it comes to the most important functions of a DVR. Once you get to a program, is there any real slowness? I don't think so. I'm not talking about the 21 series, which seems to be inherently slow in many respects.

What everyone seems to be talking about is the process of getting to a program. That's not an HDD problem, I think. I've taken 2TB HDDs on/in 21-700s and put them on/in 24s and never seen any of the slowness of the 21-700s (which, I think, were the best of the 21 series).

What I'm trying to say is, making a blanket statement that 24s are slow is wrong. Without the HD GUI (you really gotta be careful what you wish for) I don't think we'd see these reoccurring threads.

The question we should be asking is when will the HD GUI be upgraded? Or fixed, or whatever you want to call it.

We can blame the HDDs for anything, but let's get it right. If an HDD is gonna slow up one HR and you put it on another HR, the same thing should happen, right? It simply doesn't. I truly doubt the HDDs are the culprits here.

Rich


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

My take between the HD receivers and the HDDVR receivers is that there is a lot more going on in the DVR than in the HD receiver.
There are a lot more graphics in the DVR to manipulate and load into memory.
The HD has one tuner and the DVR has 2.
It appears to me that the DVR is always buffering 2 tuners.
It also looks like the DVR starts buffering before anyting is put to the TV screen.

I am waiting and wanting to see this latest 0x062c software does as several have reported that it is much faster at changing channels.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

jimmie57 said:


> My take between the HD receivers and the HDDVR receivers is that there is a lot more going on in the DVR than in the HD receiver.
> There are a lot more graphics in the DVR to manipulate and load into memory.
> The HD has one tuner and the DVR has 2.
> It appears to me that the DVR is always buffering 2 tuners.
> ...


I've never had a plain receiver, but your logic is sound from what I've read. I doubt that the HRs are always buffering 2 tuners, you have to turn that feature on. They do constantly buffer one tuner tho, unless you are recording two programs at once.

Regarding channel changes, I've never been big on surfing and there are several workarounds for that, which I believe you've pointed out.

Rich


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

I have two HR24-500s. Both are set with Native-On, Scrolling Effects-Off, All Resolutions selected and both are connected to AV/receivers via HDMI cable. Current software on both is 0x05d2. Time frame for channel changes, HD-HD 5 seconds, HD-SD 7seconds, SD-SD 3 seconds. Considering my settings and what takes place when I change channels I'd say they are pretty fast. The only slow features are the Active Channel and TV Apps. And from what I've read, the new national release (0x062c) is improving speed.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Rich said:


> These "slowness" threads are enough to drive anyone crazy. Short drive for me.... :lol:
> 
> What everyone seems to be talking about is the process of getting to a program. That's not an HDD problem, I think. I've taken 2TB HDDs on/in 21-700s and put them on/in 24s and never seen any of the slowness of the 21-700s (which, I think, were the best of the 21 series).
> 
> Rich


Some of the complaints I've seen are in going through the guide, even with scrolling effects off, compared to the same thing on a non DVR. I think there may be a difference due to the drive there, as the guide is on the hard drive, and not in memory like it is on a receiver.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

MysteryMan said:


> I have two HR24-500s. Both are set with Native-On, Scrolling Effects-Off, All Resolutions selected and both are connected to AV/receivers via HDMI cable. Current software on both is 0x05d2. Time frame for channel changes, HD-HD 5 seconds, HD-SD 7seconds, SD-SD 3 seconds. Considering my settings and what takes place when I change channels I'd say they are pretty fast. The only slow features are the Active Channel and TV Apps. And from what I've read, the new national release (0x062c) is improving speed.


All 12 of mine are set the same way. I'd kinda like to play with a new Dish DVR and see how they perform. Just out of curiosity. I don't know anyone who has Dish.

Rich


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

jimmie57 said:


> My take between the HD receivers and the HDDVR receivers is that there is a lot more going on in the DVR than in the HD receiver.
> There are a lot more graphics in the DVR to manipulate and load into memory.
> The HD has one tuner and the DVR has 2.
> It appears to me that the DVR is always buffering 2 tuners.
> It also looks like the DVR starts buffering before anyting is put to the TV screen.


DMA is a wonderful and liberating thing. It takes much of the load off of the main processor so that the many dedicated processors (decoding, decryption, character generator/video mixer, scaler) can do their thing.

Since the DIRECTV HR2x series can't do PIP or a second TV, the second tuner is a red herring. If the second tuner happens to be active, most of the processing is done in custom hardware.

The drag seems more likely related to the database engine that plays big in the guide and scheduling which is where much of the real dragging happens.

Remote response seems likely just a poor balance of priority. That other software on very similar platforms (or the same platform in the case of the THR22) moves along nicely pretty much invalidates the idea that the hardware is the problem.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

dpeters11 said:


> Some of the complaints I've seen are in going through the guide, even with scrolling effects off, compared to the same thing on a non DVR. I think there may be a difference due to the drive there, as the guide is on the hard drive, and not in memory like it is on a receiver.


I don't think comparing the performance of a receiver to a DVR doesn't seem like a good thing to do. Logically, you'd expect the receiver to do what it does more quickly than a DVR. I've never had a plain receiver, so I have no idea what they're like, but I've read enough about them to know they outperform the DVRs, as I'd expect. Yeah, it would be nice to have the Guide in memory on the DVRs too.

Rich


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Rich said:


> All 12 of mine are set the same way. I'd kinda like to play with a new Dish DVR and see how they perform. Just out of curiosity. I don't know anyone who has Dish.
> 
> Rich


So I've got some different firmware right now and reran channel changing times.

My TV takes 2 sec to change HD from its antenna.

My DVR with native on, has slowed to about 6 sec changing channels that are different resolution.
Turning native off has any channel change take 3 or less seconds.
SD to SD doesn't look to take the 2 sec my TV does for HD.

These were timed by using the guide to select a channel, and then using the previous button to toggle. Press and count 1, 2 ,3, ... until video displays. Audio came much faster.

I haven't had any Dish HD, but have had U-verse. U-verse doesn't give the user the native on feature.
Does dish?


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## wrj (Nov 23, 2006)

Rich said:


> All 12 of mine are set the same way. I'd kinda like to play with a new Dish DVR and see how they perform. Just out of curiosity. I don't know anyone who has Dish.
> 
> Rich


My neighbor has the Hopper and my daughter has DISH (no Hopper). Those DVRs are faster than my HR22 when in the guide and/or channeling channels. However, my HR22 is not always slow. At times, it is decent and acceptable (but never fast). I just haven't been able to see any pattern to when it performs faster.

Also, you mention earlier about the HR24 speed. It seems most people feel that is fast (compared to the 22).


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

dpeters11 said:


> I think there may be a difference due to the drive there, as the guide is on the hard drive, and not in memory like it is on a receiver.


I'm thinking the guide data is stored in RAM in both receivers and DVRs. There's at least twice as much data to shuffle in the DVRs (14 days .vs. 7 days).


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

veryoldschool said:


> Does dish?


No, they do not.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

harsh said:


> No, they do not.


Thank you.

This should put them on par with U-verse and for those wanting to "A-B" Dish with DirecTV, they should turn native off for it.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

veryoldschool said:


> This should put them on par with U-verse and for those wanting to "A-B" Dish with DirecTV, they should turn native off for it.


For those without _very_ fancy TVs or outboard scalers, native off is probably the best choice anyway.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

harsh said:


> For those without _very_ fancy TVs or outboard scalers, native off is probably the best choice anyway.


I use both, as I have a good TV, and one that isn't so much.
It's fairly obvious that U-verse isn't looking at the higher end of the market, and are merely trying to be better than cable.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> So I've got some different firmware right now and reran channel changing times.
> 
> My TV takes 2 sec to change HD from its antenna.
> 
> ...


I've never even seen a Dish DVR.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

wrj said:


> My neighbor has the Hopper and my daughter has DISH (no Hopper). Those DVRs are faster than my HR22 when in the guide and/or channeling channels. However, my HR22 is not always slow. At times, it is decent and acceptable (but never fast). I just haven't been able to see any pattern to when it performs faster.
> 
> Also, you mention earlier about the HR24 speed. It seems most people feel that is fast (compared to the 22).


I've only had one 22-100. When I got it and activated it, I was stunned by how well it worked. FF two weeks and I had a non-functioning 22-100. With the HDD empty it was as fast as any HR I'd had up to that time, but as I added content, it slowed up and I finally gave up on it. By that time it wouldn't even respond to either IR or RF remote input.

The 24s are just faster than all their predecessors. In every way. And, apparently, as reliable as a good 20-700.

Rich


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## wrj (Nov 23, 2006)

harsh said:


> For those without _very_ fancy TVs or outboard scalers, native off is probably the best choice anyway.


Help me understand, what does "native off" or "native on" do? I have it set to "off" on my panasonic plasma which is capable of 1080p.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

wrj said:


> Help me understand, what does "native off" or "native on" do? I have it set to "off" on my panasonic plasma which is capable of 1080p.


I have 8 Panny plasmas and all are set to native on. PQs fine on each of them.

Rich


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

"wrj" said:


> Help me understand, what does "native off" or "native on" do? I have it set to "off" on my panasonic plasma which is capable of 1080p.


I simplest form...

Different channels broadcast at different resolutions.

Almost all displays only show one Particular resolution.

This means either the directv receiver, the TV, or some other device between them will be making the resolutions all the same so that the TV can show the picture.

Native on sends the original resolution to the TV or other device, and then let's the TV or other device do all the converting.

Native off means you set the resolution out, preferably to the native resolution of the TV, (otherwise it would still have to convert again) and the DIRECTV receiver does all the converting.

The big deal is that if you leave native on, the TV has to change its input resolutions and re handshake via hdmi to show the new channel at the new resolution being output by the receiver, which takes more time to do, than if the directv receiver always sends out the same resolution.

Personally, I won't use native on.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

wrj said:


> Help me understand, what does "native off" or "native on" do? I have it set to "off" on my panasonic plasma which is capable of 1080p.


Harsh is a Dish sub, so was a good one for the question about theirs.

As to native "on": 
What this does is same the same resolution the channel was broadcast in to the TV. Since the broadcasters use SD 480i, HD 720p & 1080i, this will cause the receiver to constantly change the output as needed.

If you have a 1080p TV, you may just set the output to 1080, and turn native off so the receiver always scales everything to 1080. Only shows that are 1080p/24 will output in 1080p, if you select it in the setup menu.

Why some use native on is their TV can give a better picture by doing the scaling with the TV, or their AVR, so they don't want the receiver to do anything to change the resolution.


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## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

MysteryMan said:


> I have two HR24-500s. Both are set with Native-On, Scrolling Effects-Off, All Resolutions selected and both are connected to AV/receivers via HDMI cable. Current software on both is 0x05d2. Time frame for channel changes, HD-HD 5 seconds, HD-SD 7seconds, SD-SD 3 seconds. Considering my settings and what takes place when I change channels I'd say they are pretty fast. The only slow features are the Active Channel and TV Apps. And from what I've read, the new national release (0x062c) is improving speed.


You've missed the point. Although it USUALLY takes that amount of time, at random times for no obvious reason it takes an additional 5- 30 seconds, mainly because the receiver becomes totally unresponsive. Not everyone is affected by this, but quite a few are.

Also, those times are for the fastest DVR D* has (aside from the THR22), which means the average D* customer is experiencing slower times.

With native on, the times for FIOS are either <500 ms or 3 s, depending on if the new channel is same res. as old channel. If native is off, then every channel change is 300-500 ms. Seven seconds seems fast, until you get used to 500 ms, then 7 seconds is an eternity.

One thing D* can do is what FIOS does. If the old channel and new channel are the same resolution, and native is on, don't start a new HDMI handshake. Just leave the resolution as is and just change the channel.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

bobcamp1 said:


> One thing D* can do is what FIOS does. If the old channel and new channel are the same resolution, and native is on, don't start a new HDMI handshake. Just leave the resolution as is and just change the channel.


That is Brilliant and I hope Directv is reading this Thread (we know they aren't)!!!


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

bobcamp1 said:


> You've missed the point. Although it USUALLY takes that amount of time, at random times for no obvious reason it takes an additional 5- 30 seconds, mainly because the receiver becomes totally unresponsive. Not everyone is affected by this, but quite a few are.
> 
> Also, those times are for the fastest DVR D* has (aside from the THR22), which means the average D* customer is experiencing slower times.
> 
> ...


I have never experienced additional delay times of 5-30 seconds on either of my HR24-500s and I have had them for quite some time.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

bobcamp1 said:


> With native on, the times for FIOS are either <500 ms or 3 s, depending on if the new channel is same res. as old channel. If native is off, then every channel change is 300-500 ms. Seven seconds seems fast, until you get used to 500 ms, then 7 seconds is an eternity.


 FIOS is using MPEG-2. MPEG-4 takes more processing.


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## JeffBowser (Dec 21, 2006)

Aye, another reason I'd love to see more processing power thrown at these boxes. Then they can be sloppy in their code all day long, and one won't have to sit for loooong seconds waiting for DVR response.



veryoldschool said:


> FIOS is using MPEG-2. MPEG-4 takes more processing.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

> Less than 500 ms


My Sony TV can't change channels this fast with MPEG-2 OTA.
"One, thousand, two," is the fastest it will tune. It's the same for channels that are the same resolution or different resolutions.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

JeffBowser said:


> Aye, another reason I'd love to see more processing power thrown at these boxes. Then they can be sloppy in their code all day long, and one won't have to sit for loooong seconds waiting for DVR response.


I too would like to see native on change channels faster. I just find it hard to believe it needs 3 or 4 secs more for a resolution change.


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## JeffBowser (Dec 21, 2006)

My channel change is forever, but I am knowingly turning native on, and enabling all resolutions, simply because my TV does a stellar job of scaling compared to DirecTV. My big beef is interface responsiveness, the long dull wait to access recordings, delete recordings, and in worst case scenarios, long delayed input suddenly all getting processed and things going to hell in a hand-basket, resulting in even further delays. Several times each evening my wife tosses the remote to me in frustration and says "here, you do it!" because she's inputting, expecting a response, and when none comes, starts inputting again.



veryoldschool said:


> I too would like to see native on change channels faster. I just find it hard to believe it needs 3 or 4 secs more for a resolution change.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

JeffBowser said:


> My big beef is interface responsiveness, the long dull wait to access recordings, delete recordings, and in worst case scenarios, long delayed input suddenly all getting processed and things going to hell in a hand-basket, resulting in even further delays. Several times each evening my wife tosses the remote to me in frustration and says "here, you do it!" because she's inputting, expecting a response, and when none comes, starts inputting again.


I just don't have this problem.
I have tested some [bad] software, and been able to send a receiver to "never never land", but it's been rare, and goes with the territory.


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## JeffBowser (Dec 21, 2006)

Yeah, I know. I've followed all the threads (silently for the most part).



veryoldschool said:


> I just don't have this problem.
> I have tested some [bad] software, and been able to send a receiver to "never never land", but it's been rare, and goes with the territory.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

"JeffBowser" said:


> My channel change is forever, but I am knowingly turning native on, and enabling all resolutions, simply because my TV does a stellar job of scaling compared to DirecTV. My big beef is interface responsiveness, the long dull wait to access recordings, delete recordings, and in worst case scenarios, long delayed input suddenly all getting processed and things going to hell in a hand-basket, resulting in even further delays. Several times each evening my wife tosses the remote to me in frustration and says "here, you do it!" because she's inputting, expecting a response, and when none comes, starts inputting again.


What units do you have again? And how well ventilated and old are they?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

inkahauts said:


> What units do you have again? And how well ventilated and old are they?


Don't talk about his wife that way! !rolling


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## JeffBowser (Dec 21, 2006)

inkahauts said:


> What units do you have again? And how well ventilated and old are they?


I've already derailed this thread enough, and seen enough threads on this subject to go down this path here (and again), but thanks.



veryoldschool said:


> Don't talk about his wife that way! !rolling


:lol:


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

JeffBowser said:


> Aye, another reason I'd love to see more processing power thrown at these boxes. Then they can be sloppy in their code all day long, and one won't have to sit for loooong seconds waiting for DVR response.


Sloppy code is not something to aspire to nor facilitate/encourage in any way.

Assuming that CPU power will fix everything was what hampered Pee Cees and Macs from doing serious tasks (like simulation and 3D modeling) until dedicated display engines came on the scene.

Channel changing shouldn't require a lot of horsepower, but if the DVR is focusing on other things, it may take a while; especially when its focus doesn't prioritize user input.


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## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> FIOS is using MPEG-2. MPEG-4 takes more processing.


It's just as fast with FIOS's MPEG4 channels. MPEG2 vs. MPEG4 has nothing to do with channel changing speeds. The FPGA(s) in the chipset should be the device(s) performing the video decoding. That leaves the on-board CPU to handle other things, like processing remote control commands and guide data.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

bobcamp1 said:


> It's just as fast with FIOS's MPEG4 channels. MPEG2 vs. MPEG4 has nothing to do with channel changing speeds. The FPGA(s) in the chipset should be the device(s) performing the video decoding. That leaves the on-board CPU to handle other things, like processing remote control commands and guide data.


since I don't have FIOS, I can't compare, but I can with my AM21 and it's faster with MPEG-2


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## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> since I don't have FIOS, I can't compare, but I can with my AM21 and it's faster with MPEG-2


OK, then in a _properly designed box_, it shouldn't matter at all whether it's MPEG2 vs. MPEG4. The video decoding should be handled by an FPGA or two within the chipset, leaving the on-board CPU free to perform other tasks. Plus now you've got the AM21 involved in your test, so it's not really the same test. You can compare D* with a Series 3 Tivo box if you want -- that's MPEG4 and the channels change really fast (less than a second) with native off using the same chipset as an HR22.

Tivo worked really hard to develop the code and the tools necessary to use Linux in their boxes, as Linux doesn't come with any of the necessary embedded tools (Linux sucks, especially as an embedded OS).

http://www.tivo.com/opensource/linux/index.html

Google has done the same with Android. They've both made dozens of kernel modifications as well. Where's D*'s source code and tools? There are also all kinds of tricks you need to use to get Linux to work in an embedded application, and embedded programming itself is very different from PC programming.

I'd bet that you could take the existing D* boxes and have a team of true embedded software engineers completely rewrite the software so that it's much faster yet keeps all the existing functions. But that would cost a lot of money, so that's not happening.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

bobcamp1 said:


> OK, then...


Waiting 6+ sec for a resolution change shouldn't happen.
I still question channel changes of < 500ms, but that's because my TV can't.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

bobcamp1 said:


> OK, then in a _properly designed box_, it shouldn't matter at all whether it's MPEG2 vs. MPEG4. The video decoding should be handled by an FPGA or two within the chipset, leaving the on-board CPU free to perform other tasks. Plus now you've got the AM21 involved in your test, so it's not really the same test. You can compare D* with a Series 3 Tivo box if you want -- that's MPEG4 and the channels change really fast (less than a second) with native off using the same chipset as an HR22.
> 
> Tivo worked really hard to develop the code and the tools necessary to use Linux in their boxes, as Linux doesn't come with any of the necessary embedded tools (Linux sucks, especially as an embedded OS).
> 
> ...


Until D* start losing subs en masse, they're not gonna change the way they do business. There is a method to their madness.

Rich


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Rich said:


> Until D* start losing subs en masse, they're not gonna change the way they do business. There is a method to their madness.
> 
> Rich


Some might see this as: There is madness to their method.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> Some might see this as: There is madness to their method.


Yeah, there is that. Not gonna change while they're on top. Too many satisfied lemmings (like me). Fast enough for me, their HRs are.

Rich


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## JeffBowser (Dec 21, 2006)

I have to believe there are some good engineers deep in a basement somewhere who are deeply embarrassed by the output.


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## tigerwillow1 (Jan 26, 2009)

JeffBowser said:


> I have to believe there are some good engineers deep in a basement somewhere who are deeply embarrassed by the output.


You're probably correct. During my years as a low-level and embedded programmer there were many times when the engineers said "it's not finished yet", and the management said "ship it". There was often a crisis project a few months later to fix the problems, usually bug fixes and performance enhancements, at a higher cost than just doing it right the first time. When hardware isn't finished, it looks like it isn't finished. With software, you copy it onto a disk and put a pretty label on it while the ugliness inside is invisible to the eye.

From the marketing and management perspective, if you get your product out too late, somebody else will beat you and capture market share. But if you push out a bad product too early and get a bad reputation attached to it, it's toast. Does D* get more customers with a snappy DVR that doesn't do much else, or a dog-slow DVR that does a dozen other things? Only the Marketing geniuses can answer that. For me, if the poor performance pushes me over the cliff to E*, I won't be back unless E* screws something up even worse.


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## pappasbike (Sep 19, 2006)

raott said:


> You can, but he will likely have to pay for it. My HR34 is pretty speedy, IMO. The HR22s, are awful and suffer from terrible keybounce issues (and no, it is not LCD interference since one of them is hooked up to a 36 inch CRT).


Just got an HR34 a few days ago. It's on the current software release. It replaced one of my two dvrs, both HR21s. The remaining 21 is in another room connected with the whole home service but rarely watched on that tv.

I can't speak for the other DTV dvrs but the 21 that got replaced was one of the slowest, most aggravating piece of equipment I've ever used. It reminded me of when I first got a computer and was on a dial up internet service. The new 34, and granted it's only been a few days, is far faster in almost every function than the 21. Actually that aspect alone is almost worth the price I paid.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

The HR21 I used to have was the sole reason I switched to E* a couple years ago. The price, channels, picture quality, all of those other things that D* does at least somewhat better were overshadowed by the oft occurring urge to throw the remote through the plate glass window! 

When I came back to D*, I had a bit of a hassle with them and ended up at the office of the president. I was adamant that I would get 2 HR24s for free, and only HR24s. That's what I got and overall have been pleased.

That said, there are times the HR24-500s I have decide to get sluggish, but generally a quick switch to channel 1 for 30 seconds or more cures most of that.

If I had to get HR21s again, I wouldn't be with D* long enough for them to get them shipped to me.


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## UhClem (Oct 1, 2009)

veryoldschool said:


> since I don't have FIOS, I can't compare, but I can with my AM21 and it's faster with MPEG-2


As it should be!! (All else being equal [see bottom])
Before anything can be displayed, from an MPEG-2 or -4 stream/transmission, the decoder must _sync up_ by waiting for an I-frame (a full-field Initial frame at the beginning of a [full] GOP [ie, Group Of Pictures]). For satellite transmissions (where bandwidth efficiency translates to multi-megabucks), MPEG-4 can, and will, utilize a longer GOP than MPEG-2. Therefore, on average, the sync-up time will be longer.

---- bottom ----
A fair mpeg-2 to -4 timing comparison must be based on a (roughly) similar a/v sequence at the same resolution. Does the AM21 receive any HD signals using MPEG-2? (Obviously, it does get MPEG-4 HDs)

--UhClem


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

UhClem said:


> As it should be!!..... Does the AM21 receive any HD signals using MPEG-2? (Obviously, it does get MPEG-4 HDs)
> 
> --UhClem


The AM21 is an OTA tuner for the receivers, so it only gets MPEG-2.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

veryoldschool said:


> I don't think there is any "maybe" about this.
> That is what I have on my 24 and it is this quick.





jimmie57 said:


> Can you get them to beam it to Mike Greer right away ?





veryoldschool said:


> Everyone should know by now that Mike is in the back of the bus. !rolling





Mike Greer said:


> Hell, I'm not even on the bus! I'm hitchhiking and not sure where I am.... As you all well know.
> 
> In this case however, I did get the update this morning. I haven't used the receivers to see what's up but maybe there is hope? I guess I'll know in a couple of weeks.





veryoldschool said:


> So you missed the "short bus" again? :lol:





Mike Greer said:


> The 'short bus' was full of DirecTV software engineers!:lol:





Mike Greer said:


> Ain't that the truth!
> 
> So far so good with 0x62C but I am usually ok until about 10 days or so after a restart so we'll see.


An update - I received the update to 0x062C on the morning of November 28th and that obviously restarted my receivers. Yesterday December 9th I had to once again restart the HR24-500 I use the most.

It started doing its usual thing - push a button and nothing happens... Push it again nothing happens.. Then after some minutes it catches up and acts on at least some of the button pushes.

In this case I walked in and my wife said 'Check this out...' and hit the REW button to show me. Nothing happened - just kept on playing live TV. She hit it again and nothing happened. I then took the remote and hit record then tried to make it do anything - nothing worked it just kept playing live TV. I figured it was going to catch up just as it has in the past... and it did about 5 minutes later. It started to rewind then it started to record then it came up the playlist and moved down the list a couple of lines. Finally everything was back to normal.

After that I figured it was a good time to try to do the channel 1 trick to see if it would work the same as if I restarted. I put it on channel 1 for a little over a minute to be sure.

Later in the day the same thing happened. I tried to play a recording and it wouldn't respond to the remote. Same as usual.... Except this time my son was playing a recording from the troubled receiver on another receiver and then a message came up saying that the bedroom receiver had been removed from the network and playback was no long possible. So apparently when it stops responding it also drops off the network or at least stops responding to the other receivers.

I just waited a few minutes and it recovered - never misses a beat on what it is doing then responds to the remote command from 4 or 5 minutes earlier and back to normal. Normal except that if I don't restart it the trouble will return soon. Sometimes 30 minutes later sometimes a couple of hours but it always does it again.

Apparently whatever is happening is not fixed by going to channel 1 in my case. After restarting yesterday all is well.

I'm sure that if I don't restart it every week or so the problem will come up again. It has never done this except for 8, 9 ,10 sometimes 12 days after a restart.

So - I guess I'm back to restarting once a week just keep the receivers working.

I could just tell customer service the thing is dead and they'd send me a replacement. Trouble is what will the replacement be and I'll have to give up a bunch of unwatched programs just on the gamble that what they send 'may' fix the problem. Hell, with my luck, I'll probably get one of my old HR22s back!

I think I'll just set up the series recordings on the other receivers and slowing get this down to no unwatched recordings. Then I'll decide if I call and give them the 'it just won't power up' line or wait until some future version of software fixes it. Can you imagine trying to explain what happens to a CSR? I'd rather tear off a fingernail with rusty pliers or just dump DirecTV than go through the torture sessions of having to convince them there is a problem. If they send a tech they'll restart the receivers and all will be well for 9 or 10 days and then I'll be back to square one.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Rebooting once a week can't be a bad thing and can't hurt anything unless you are Recording something.


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## TMan (Oct 31, 2007)

What is the channel 1 trick?


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

Tune "live" to channel 1. Let it sit there 30 seconds (or more, but 30 should do). This is said to clear up sluggishness, somewhat. I have tried it...it usually helps on my HR20-700, HR21-100.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Richierich said:


> Rebooting once a week can't be a bad thing and can't hurt anything unless you are Recording something.


Yep - except that it is a pain in the a$$!

I've been restarting on Sundays but timing is always an issue - especially because it takes soooooooo long to restart.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

Mike Greer said:


> Yep - except that it is a pain in the a$$!
> 
> I've been restarting on Sundays but timing is always an issue - especially because it takes soooooooo long to restart.


I read your report and sorry that you are still having these problems with your receiver.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> Yep - except that it is a pain in the a$$!
> 
> I've been restarting on Sundays but timing is always an issue - especially because it takes soooooooo long to restart.


Yeah, it's a real pain to press a few buttons. You're rebooting it yourself so why not reboot it when timing isn't an issue? You're in control there. If timing is an issue then you have no one to blame but yourself.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Mike Greer said:


> Yep - except that it is a pain in the a$$!
> 
> I've been restarting on Sundays but timing is always an issue - especially because it takes soooooooo long to restart.


I agree that it is Not Something that we should normally due but to avoid Problems sometimes we have to go the Extra Mile!!!


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

jimmie57 said:


> I read your report and sorry that you are still having these problems with your receiver.


Thanks, I'll likely just have to call and get it replaced once I watch everything on it. If they send anything other than HR24 it will be the day I finally cut the cord!


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

RunnerFL said:


> Yeah, it's a real pain to press a few buttons. You're rebooting it yourself so why not reboot it when timing isn't an issue? You're in control there. If timing is an issue then you have no one to blame but yourself.


Really? I guess you're right. The thing needs to be restarted and it should be my responsibility. I paid $200 upfront plus lord knows how much since just for the privilege of having to remember to restart the thing once a week. Don't forget I also have to make sure nothing is recording and won't record for the next 20 minutes while it boots back up.

How about asking your Gods at DirecTV why it needs to be restarted? Why are ALL receivers from DirecTV slower than Dish Network? Maybe they should hire you to run the engineering department?

I know, I know, you're just doing your thing. I would have been disappointed if you had something useful to say.:lol:


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Richierich said:


> I agree that it is Not Something that we should normally due but to avoid Problems sometimes we have to go the Extra Mile!!!


Yep - I'll do the extra mile a bit longer!

Hopefully someday all this 'technology' will live up to the marketing departments tall tales. And I don't just mean DirecTV!


----------



## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> Really? I guess you're right. The thing needs to be restarted and it should be my responsibility.


I never said it should be or needed to be restarted, don't put words in my mouth. What I said is that if YOU are restarting it YOU are the one choosing when to restart it. If the timing of the restart is bad YOU are the one who chose it.



Mike Greer said:


> Why are ALL receivers from DirecTV slower than Dish Network?


Why are you not a Dish customer yet? You seem to like their products and hate DirecTV's.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

RunnerFL said:


> I never said it should be or needed to be restarted, don't put words in my mouth. What I said is that if YOU are restarting it YOU are the one choosing when to restart it. If the timing of the restart is bad YOU are the one who chose it.
> 
> Why are you not a Dish customer yet? You seem to like their products and hate DirecTV's.


Hmmm...... Are you just bored?

What would you do? Your choices are either restart the receiver once a week or have it go into a coma for 4-5 minutes at a time after 10 days or so? Or would you just lie to an easily manipulated CSR so you can get a replacement? Maybe you have a better suggestion?

If you could ask your people why the receivers are so slow maybe we could finally find an answer from the all-knowing?

I like the speed of Dish Network receivers. When a 5 year old HD DVR from Dish Network blows away ANYTHING DirecTV has ever done the engineering department should be explaining why. How they get away with having the same problems cycle in and out of updates is beyond reason.

For now I will continue to put up with the ridiculous problems that obviously are my fault because I do like the picture quality of DirecTV, the 'Whole-Home' setup and SWM that DirecTV uses. Truth is my ***** is with their HD DVRs. They beat Dish Network at pretty much everything else.

When DirecTV fixes their DVRs or even gets them back to the way they were before the HDGUI I'll crawl back under my rock.

Bottom line - DirecTV is the lesser of two evils... At least for now.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Mike Greer said:


> Yep - except that it is a pain in the a$$!
> 
> I've been restarting on Sundays but timing is always an issue - especially because it takes soooooooo long to restart.


For Heaven's sake, Mike, do it just before bed.
Also, some operations are slower right after a reboot, so you may avoid further frustrations, though I won't bet on that.....


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> Hmmm...... Are you just bored?
> 
> What would you do? Your choices are either restart the receiver once a week or have it go into a coma for 4-5 minutes at a time after 10 days or so? Or would you just lie to an easily manipulated CSR so you can get a replacement? Maybe you have a better suggestion?
> 
> ...


My point, again, is if you feel you have to restart the unit do it at a time when you know it won't conflict with any recordings.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Laxguy said:


> For Heaven's sake, Mike, do it just before bed.
> Also, some operations are slower right after a reboot, so you may avoid further frustrations, though I won't bet on that.....


I may just start doing it in the morning. There are things on the 'To-Do' list at night... At least until I get them all moved to the other DVRs....


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

RunnerFL said:


> My point, again, is if you feel you have to restart the unit do it at a time when you know it won't conflict with any recordings.


Well, I wish I had thought of that. I am very thankful for your words of wisdom.

I take that you are indeed bored?


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

"Mike Greer" said:


> Well, I wish I had thought of that. I am very thankful for your words of wisdom.
> 
> I take that you are indeed bored?


Mike, I can't remember, but I hope you've tried disconnecting from the Internet for a good long while and resetting all network defaults on all your machines and leaveit disconnected and seen if the problem goes away. 4 to 5 minutes just smells like something else is going on that none of us are seeing.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

inkahauts said:


> Mike, I can't remember, but I hope you've tried disconnecting from the Internet for a good long while and resetting all network defaults on all your machines and leaveit disconnected and seen if the problem goes away. 4 to 5 minutes just smells like something else is going on that none of us are seeing.


I haven't tried recently. I can disconnect the Internet permanently. I've only used 'on-demand' a few times because it is sooo slow.

In fact first thing in the morning before anything is recording I'll shut all three DVRs down, remove the Internet connection and then boot the receivers up one at a time.

It will be 10 or so days before I know if it improved but it is worth a shot.

Thanks.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

"Mike Greer" said:


> I haven't tried recently. I can disconnect the Internet permanently. I've only used 'on-demand' a few times because it is sooo slow.
> 
> In fact first thing in the morning before anything is recording I'll shut all three DVRs down, remove the Internet connection and then boot the receivers up one at a time.
> 
> ...


I'd also make sure you restore all network defaults.

Yeah,at this point, what's the worst that could happen?


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## acostapimps (Nov 6, 2011)

What I find funny is that any DVR's respond better when the guide is flushed or non of the banner ads or channel icons or any icons for that matter appear, until it populates that's when it slow's down a bit


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## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

This lengthy thread pretty much confirms the reason I switched to FiOS 14 months ago because of a slow HR20.

Yes, I know not everyone has that choice.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

billsharpe said:


> This lengthy thread pretty much confirms the reason I switched to FiOS 14 months ago because of a slow HR20.


Nor are that many that capricious. Not that your decision was, but I do wonder why you need to repeat your choice so often, especially in DIRECTV® threads.


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## TMan (Oct 31, 2007)

Mike Greer said:


> Hmmm...... Are you just bored?
> 
> What would you do? Your choices are either restart the receiver once a week or have it go into a coma for 4-5 minutes at a time after 10 days or so? Or would you just lie to an easily manipulated CSR so you can get a replacement? Maybe you have a better suggestion?
> 
> ...


I see your point. Ultimately, the viewer wants quality video to appear on their screen. That it involves suffering through a tediously slow and error-prone interaction with the DVR and its remote seems to be the price to pay. This is not a satisfying situation.

It is unacceptable to me to be wondering in the back of my mind every time I pick up the remote, "is this the time it's going to freak out again and do something totally stupid?" Like last night, when I hit STOP to exit out of a recording, and the C31 just showed a freeze frame from live TV, would not unpause or go to the List, and refused to do anything until I cycled the power on the C31. At least I didn't have to do a full reboot on the C31, which takes longer.

All of that takes away from the customer's experience. Yeah, it's a superficial "first world" problem, but it's still important to branding and word of mouth enthusiasm, and ultimately the bottom line. It doesn't take a master's degree in marketing to surmise that a company is far better off having millions of customers saying to potential new customers "wow, this DVR set up I just got works great! It is so smooth and fast!" Instead, they get grumpy, dissatisfied ambassadors out there with great stories like "yeah, this new DVR looks good once you manage to navigate through the guide and change the channel, maybe hitting an extra button to make up for the button press that disappeared into the ether. Or the whole thing might just freak out and you have to go reboot everything in multiple rooms." The latter is a bit less likely to be met with "wow, where can I get one?"

I am so tired of over/undershooting my destination in a page up/page down or cursor up/down scrolling operation because it's so sluggish. I don't mean crazy, stupid slow sluggish (though that has happened, too). I mean ever so slightly sluggish where there is just enough of a _perception_ of it being sluggish that it interferes with effortless operation. It is very subtle, but if you're able to notice it, it's wrong. Oops, landed on the folder above AGAIN. Well, maybe if it would process all of my remote inputs correctly. And I'm certainly not going crazy with remote commands. If the box can't keep up with a quick DOWN DOWN DOWN command sequence and execute it properly, that can hardly be my fault. Am I really to go DOWN (visually confirm movement) DOWN (visually confirm movement) DOWN? Because that's so seamless and user friendly. The logo on the box blinks each time, so I know it is "hearing" me.

I don't want to think about how many days since a reboot, or whether the guide data has been flushed, or whether there might be banner ads in the guide slowing it down, or my favorites list is allegedly too large, or if turning on my C31 will yield only a gray screen. Are you kidding me? It is completely absurd that this should even be a something the customer even notices, much less has to work around. People look at all that and actually say "yeah, I guess that's about right" with a straight face? Tech-savvy people read things like dbstalk; ordinary users don't. What do they think about all this?

I don't often need to think about stuff like this when I use my Android phone, or an iPad. This is as it should be, and it is critically important to the overall perception of the device's quality.

I just don't buy in to the notion that such frequent rebooting is an acceptable way of doing things.

My only prior DVR experience comes from owning three TiVos since 2003. I am currently down to just my TiVo HD. It's effectively retired at this point, and now only has OTA signal provided to it. That unit is six years old. Despite its age, with very, very few exceptions, It Just Works. I bet in that time I haven't rebooted it due to erratic behavior more than 20 or 30 times. In six years. There are people here rebooting Genie equipment that often in a _month_ just to keep it all cooperating.

I'll make a caveat to my It Just Works statement: the main problem I had with the TiVo, and what ultimately drove me to trying out satellite, was its quirks with the CableCARD and/or my cable company. But at least the damn remote does _what_ I ask, _when_ I ask, the vast majority of the time. More importantly, it seems to be _consistent_ in the speed in which it does things. I maintain that the consistency is more important than the speed. Is it going to be responsive this time, or is it going to take that extra (but very noticeable) split second (or more) longer this time? I never had the sense that if it was "busy" it might be slower.

Some will say the TiVo isn't doing as much "work" as the HR34/C31 system. I totally agree with that. Two tuners vs five. Output to one TV vs. multiple. No streaming to an RVU client. It just would have been nice if they'd used hardware robust enough to _consistently and responsively_ deliver what is asked of it. That is clearly not the case right now.

Having said all that, I am enjoying my new DirecTV equipment very much. I don't want to change providers. (Not that doing so would be easy anyway...<cough> early termination fee. <cough>) The destination (picture quality, channel choices, DVR capacity, tuner capacity, whole-home functionality) satisfy me quite nicely. It's the journey (the actual human interaction with the equipment) that too often annoys the hell out of me. It's what turns an "it's great!" into an "it's great, but..." experience. It dulls the shine on it.

I don't want some condescending apologist to pat me on the back and say, "there there, it'll be okay" while quietly sweeping these performance issues under the rug, or snidely suggest that I should have stayed with cable (sorry, ten years was long enough and it was time for something new) or moved to Dish. That's not the point. The point is this equipment should be faster. Others can do it. Why can't DirecTV? I realize dbstalk is a forum of enthusiasts who probably have higher technical awareness and look to get more out of their toys, but is this really not a noticeable issue to their user population as a whole? Doesn't this concern them? I don't write all this to rip on them. I'm genuinely curious why all these issues persist. I find it baffling.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Tman-

You make good points, and I agree with them. 

In the mean time, you may lessen some operating distress by using the DIRECTV app on the iPad. 

Good luck.


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## TMan (Oct 31, 2007)

Laxguy said:


> Tman-
> 
> You make good points, and I agree with them.
> 
> ...


Well, the app can't "find" the HR34 about 10% of the time, and I can't conveniently run the virtual remote by feel on the smooth screen while looking at the television. I must be getting old since I'm noticing near/far viewing issues more often. 

At least you can get a three-hour program grid in the app, unlike the DVR itself.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

TMan said:


> Well, the app can't "find" the HR34 about 10% of the time, and I can't conveniently run the virtual remote by feel on the smooth screen while looking at the television. I must be getting old since I'm noticing near/far viewing issues more often.
> 
> At least you can get a three-hour program grid in the app, unlike the DVR itself.


Ah, I see. I use the app for browsing, playing, but for 'serious' viewing, I also use the buttons by feel. 
Well, I hope for improvements over time, esp. with the newer boxes.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

I hear ya TMan, I'm not sure why DirecTV is stuck in this cycle of trouble. You'd think if they could fix a problem once that they could keep the problem out rather than having the same troubles come and go as the 'updates' go out.

It would be cool if some of the very vocal DirecTV defenders that have contacts with DirecTV could give as a little background on what is going on in DirecTV engineering. I'm not saying Dish Network receivers are perfect but.... There must be a reason that even Dish HD DVRs a couple generations old can record 2 OTA and 2 Sat streams simultaneously and still respond lightening quick compared to anything DirecTV has ever had....

There has to be a better reason than they don't know what the hell they are doing... I can't/don't understand why DirecTV management allows this to continue to be a problem. Even on the latest and greatest HR34 when they could have had a fresh start it looks like they kept the same problems from the HR2X series.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

inkahauts said:


> I'd also make sure you restore all network defaults.
> 
> Yeah,at this point, what's the worst that could happen?


I have disconnected the Internet and reset the network connections on all three of my HR24-500s. We'll see if it makes a difference in about 10 days or so!


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## JeffBowser (Dec 21, 2006)

Well put.



Mike Greer said:


> I hear ya TMan, I'm not sure why DirecTV is stuck in this cycle of trouble. You'd think if they could fix a problem once that they could keep the problem out rather than having the same troubles come and go as the 'updates' go out.
> 
> It would be cool if some of the very vocal DirecTV defenders that have contacts with DirecTV could give as a little background on what is going on in DirecTV engineering. I'm not saying Dish Network receivers are perfect but.... There must be a reason that even Dish HD DVRs a couple generations old can record 2 OTA and 2 Sat streams simultaneously and still respond lightening quick compared to anything DirecTV has ever had....
> 
> There has to be a better reason than they don't know what the hell they are doing... I can't/don't understand why DirecTV management allows this to continue to be a problem. Even on the latest and greatest HR34 when they could have had a fresh start it looks like they kept the same problems from the HR2X series.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Mike Greer said:


> Yep - except that it is a pain in the a$$!
> 
> I've been restarting on Sundays but timing is always an issue - especially because it takes soooooooo long to restart.


Mike, when those same problems keep occurring, have you ever tried flushing the Guide?

Rich


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Rich said:


> Mike, when those same problems keep occurring, have you ever tried flushing the Guide?
> 
> Rich


Yes sir! A few times but somewhere between 9 and 11 or 12 days the receiver starts going to lunch.

I'm sure I'll have to have that receiver replaced - I just need to get evertyhing off it and find a way to get DirecTV to replace it... And not send me back one of the HR22s I am so happy to be rid of!


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Mike Greer said:


> I have disconnected the Internet and reset the network connections on all three of my HR24-500s. We'll see if it makes a difference in about 10 days or so!


I feel as if we're in some kind of time warp. I've got six 500s and rarely see those problems. Same answer I gave you years ago comparing the performance of my 20-700s to your 22-100s. But, all my HRs have 2TB drives on/in them. Could that be a difference maker? I know the HRs run better with the large drives replacing the internal drives. I can't prove that statement. They also run well with an external drive on them, but that's a PITA when you have to reset a 10 HR MRV system. Rather have them internal.

I write this in the hope that folks can understand that not every HR system is slow. I think there should be a counterpoint to every argument.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Mike Greer said:


> Yes sir! A few times but somewhere between 9 and 11 or 12 days the receiver starts going to lunch.


That shouldn't happen.



> I'm sure I'll have to have that receiver replaced - I just need to get evertyhing off it and find a way to get DirecTV to replace it... And not send me back one of the HR22s I am so happy to be rid of!


You should get a 24 in return, that's the policy. Your other two 500s don't have that problem?

Rich


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Rich said:


> I feel as if we're in some kind of time warp. I've got six 500s and rarely see those problems. Same answer I gave you years ago comparing the performance of my 20-700s to your 22-100s. But, all my HRs have 2TB drives on/in them. Could that be a difference maker? I know the HRs run better with the large drives replacing the internal drives. I can't prove that statement. They also run well with an external drive on them, but that's a PITA when you have to reset a 10 HR MRV system. Rather have them internal.
> 
> I write this in the hope that folks can understand that not every HR system is slow. I think there should be a counterpoint to every argument.
> 
> Rich


Rich - they are definitely not all the same!

With my three HR24-500s - the one I use the most will stop responding for minutes at a time 10 days or so after a restart (guide flush or not). This happens EVERY time - I've been dealing with it by restarting it Sundays and that, for the most part, keeps it behaving.

The 2nd HR24 has similar trouble but only occasionally and a restart fixes it for weeks or even 
months.

The 3rd has not had the trouble of going to lunch for minutes at a time at all.

The 'speed' of all three of them is mostly acceptable to most people I think. All three are slower than they were before the HDGUI. Again, acceptable to most but not as quick as they used to be.

The rub comes when you compare an HR24 to any Dish Network HD HDVR that I have seen. Even my old Dish Network 622 recording 3 HD streams is/was noticeably quicker scrolling through the guide or any menus. I've never heard of a Dish Network receiver missing remote button pushes or just hanging there for no reason. Keep in mind that the Dish Network guide has more information displayed at once also - you'd think it would be slower - not quicker.

Chances are the HR24 I use the most - the one that locks up like clock-work after 10 days - will have to be replaced and maybe even my 2nd one. I don't know how I'll convince them it needs to be replaced other than making up the usual 'It just won't power up' bull. I hate doing that - you know that when they get it back they'll boot it up, erase the drive and ship it out to some poor sap that will again have to restart it once a week to keep it working!


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Mike Greer said:


> Rich - they are definitely not all the same!
> 
> With my three HR24-500s - the one I use the most will stop responding for minutes at a time 10 days or so after a restart (guide flush or not). This happens EVERY time - I've been dealing with it by restarting it Sundays and that, for the most part, keeps it behaving.
> 
> ...


I think the 500s are probably the wackiest of the 3 models. I'm sure you read about that one. But, when they work well they are the best I've had, so far.

By this time, you should be working with the Case Management folks to resolve these problems.

Or, it could be a curse... :lol:

Rich


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## TMan (Oct 31, 2007)

Mike Greer said:


> I hear ya TMan, I'm not sure why DirecTV is stuck in this cycle of trouble. You'd think if they could fix a problem once that they could keep the problem out rather than having the same troubles come and go as the 'updates' go out.
> 
> It would be cool if some of the very vocal DirecTV defenders that have contacts with DirecTV could give as a little background on what is going on in DirecTV engineering. I'm not saying Dish Network receivers are perfect but.... There must be a reason that even Dish HD DVRs a couple generations old can record 2 OTA and 2 Sat streams simultaneously and still respond lightening quick compared to anything DirecTV has ever had....
> 
> There has to be a better reason than they don't know what the hell they are doing... I can't/don't understand why DirecTV management allows this to continue to be a problem. Even on the latest and greatest HR34 when they could have had a fresh start it looks like they kept the same problems from the HR2X series.


It is ridiculous. A company with $1.4 billion in net income on over $14 billion in revenue in the first half of 2012 alone should have the resources to ameliorate this problem. 

Apparently no one at DirecTV has really stopped to consider how important this stuff is. With the volume of dollars, users, and boxes involved, it should be beta tested and focus grouped to death. I hope their hardware and software engineers don't work on traffic lights or air traffic control systems.

It must be a cost-vs.-benefit thing, and they have determined their average user is too dense to notice or care, to the detriment of "enthusiasts" like us on dbstalk with a modicum of hand-eye coordination. That says a lot about people in general, I suppose.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

TMan said:


> It is ridiculous. A company with $1.4 billion in net income on over $14 billion in revenue in the first half of 2012 alone should have the resources to ameliorate this problem.
> 
> Apparently no one at DirecTV has really stopped to consider how important this stuff is. With the volume of dollars, users, and boxes involved, it should be beta tested and focus grouped to death. I hope their hardware and software engineers don't work on traffic lights or air traffic control systems.
> 
> *It must be a cost-vs.-benefit thing, and they have determined their average user is too dense to notice or care, to the detriment of "enthusiasts" like us on dbstalk with a modicum of hand-eye coordination. That says a lot about people in general, I suppose.*


There you go. That's true, I think.

Rich


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## TMan (Oct 31, 2007)

Rich said:


> There you go. That's true, I think.
> 
> Rich


This apparently means the average user would tolerate a modern DVR running on Atari 2600 hardware.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Rich said:


> There you go. That's true, I think.
> 
> Rich


While I know DirecTV is "doing the numbers", it doesn't explain why many of us don't have these problems, and in Mike's case only one out of four have a problem.

Those that have these problems are frustrated and I understand, but it just doesn't seem to be a wide spread as some think, nor does it have to do with "modicum of hand-eye coordination".


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## TMan (Oct 31, 2007)

When I said "modicum of hand-eye coordination," I was referring to how "enthusiasts" like us here on the forum might be more sensitive to/aware of equipment responsiveness and quirky behavior. It wasn't meant to suggest physical problems operating the remote in the neurological sense of hand-eye coordination.

I did catch myself literally speaking out lout to my C31 last night while trying to move down a couple pages in the recordings list. "Come on, move DOWN!" When you have time to verbalize to the box, hand-eye coordination can be said to be disrupted.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

TMan said:


> This apparently means the average user would tolerate a modern DVR running on Atari 2600 hardware.


Yup, as long as you have nothing to compare something with, how would you know what's better? I, for one, have absolutely no idea how fast a Dish DVR is and I don't care.

Thing is, we're not average, if anything we are anomalies doomed to suffer... :lol:

Rich


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

"TMan" said:


> It is ridiculous. A company with $1.4 billion in net income on over $14 billion in revenue in the first half of 2012 alone should have the resources to ameliorate this problem.
> 
> Apparently no one at DirecTV has really stopped to consider how important this stuff is. With the volume of dollars, users, and boxes involved, it should be beta tested and focus grouped to death. I hope their hardware and software engineers don't work on traffic lights or air traffic control systems.
> 
> It must be a cost-vs.-benefit thing, and they have determined their average user is too dense to notice or care, to the detriment of "enthusiasts" like us on dbstalk with a modicum of hand-eye coordination. That says a lot about people in general, I suppose.


Unfortunately, I think DIRECTV uses focus groups full of fools or something, because its often said that they are always making decision on their average customer, and because of that we don't get as many options and such,because that might be to confusing to a customer. The only way they could say that is if they are doing focus groups and doing that poorly. And if the focus groups currently have cable hardware from my area, well its pretty easy to be better than them.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> While I know DirecTV is "doing the numbers", it doesn't explain why many of us don't have these problems, and in Mike's case only one out of four have a problem.


Yeah, it is hard to reconcile other's problems when we don't see them. I don't doubt them, I just don't see the same problems they do. But the forum is all about complaints.



> Those that have these problems are frustrated and I understand, but it just doesn't seem to be a wide spread as some think, nor does it have to do with "modicum of hand-eye coordination".


Any mistakes made on my HRs are usually caused by my fumbling with the remotes. Everyone dismisses "operator failure", but I've seen it happen time and time again when troubleshooting.

Rich


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

"Rich" said:


> Yeah, it is hard to reconcile other's problems when we don't see them. I don't doubt them, I just don't see the same problems they do. But the forum is all about complaints.
> 
> Any mistakes made on my HRs are usually caused by my fumbling with the remotes. Everyone dismisses "operator failure", but I've seen it happen time and time again when troubleshooting.
> 
> Rich


I think half the major issues probably has nothing to do with DIRECTV software, and all to do with either a bad wire somewhere, or router or other networking issues, or a defective unit.


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## TMan (Oct 31, 2007)

inkahauts said:


> Unfortunately, I think DIRECTV uses focus groups full of fools or something, because its often said that they are always making decision on their average customer, and because of that we don't get as many options and such,because that might be to confusing to a customer. The only way they could say that is if they are doing focus groups and doing that poorly. And if the focus groups currently have cable hardware from my area, well its pretty easy to be better than them.


If they've set their bar so low as to simply be better than cable's boxes, then I think they've almost given up! It's like the old joke about two guys being chased by a bear: You don't have to outrun the bear (be the fastest), you just need to outrun the other guy (cable).


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## TMan (Oct 31, 2007)

Rich said:


> Any mistakes made on my HRs are usually caused by my fumbling with the remotes. Everyone dismisses "operator failure", but I've seen it happen time and time again when troubleshooting.


Indeed. I still can't get my mother to run things very well for that same reason.

But after nine years of painless operation of a TiVo remote, and a certain dose of geekiness factor in general, hopefully I'm not suddenly fumbling my D* remotes that badly.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

veryoldschool said:


> While I know DirecTV is "doing the numbers", it doesn't explain why many of us don't have these problems, and in Mike's case only one out of four have a problem.
> 
> Those that have these problems are frustrated and I understand, but it just doesn't seem to be a wide spread as some think, nor does it have to do with "modicum of hand-eye coordination".


Just to clarify... I'm down to 3 HR24-500s - I sent the rest back. The one I use the most is the one with the odd trouble of locking up for 4-5 minutes at time after 10 days or so. The one I use least also does this but not often and a reboot will make it work for weeks or even months. The middle one does not have that problem at all.

The general over-all speed is pretty much the same and slower than it used to be (pre-HDGUI) but as I said earlier - probably acceptable to most... At least for people that have never used Dish Network DVRs. People that are used the Dish Network DVRs will notice from day 1 that things don't run as smoothly with DirecTV DVRs as they do with even the oldest Dish Network HD DVRs.

I suspect that all the HR24s, with the exception of the occasional hardware problem, are running at the same speed and respond pretty much the same to the remotes. The difference is the expectations and past experiences of the person holding the remote.

If you've never experienced a 'fast' DVR how would you know the slow - inconsistent response of even HR24s and HR34s are not what they could and should be?


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## TMan (Oct 31, 2007)

Mike Greer said:


> If you've never experienced a 'fast' DVR how would you know the slow - inconsistent response of even HR24s and HR34s are not what they could and should be?


That's a good point. But, I would think that absent other DVR experience (such as me with standalone TiVos, others with assorted Dish Network boxes) one would fall back on their general experience with consumer electronics. DVD players, cell phones, tablets, and even computers (though there is far more variability with computers). A Windows computer is likely to get all gummed up at some point and fall behind on processing user input, being responsive, etc. When that changes, it's noticeable, even if it's subtle.

Let's not also forget some of my (and others') complaints have nothing to do with the remote being responsive per se, but other egregious glitches like gray screens upon turning on the C31, or the need to reboot stuff because of lockups or freezes. That's just bad on an empirical level, no need for relative comparisons necessary.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> If you've never experienced a 'fast' DVR how would you know the slow - inconsistent response of even HR24s and HR34s are not what they could and should be?


I haven't had dish since I moved to HD.
I've also not seen your inconsistent response to any degree with the DVRs I've had over the past 6 years.
When my TV takes close to 2 sec to change channels [through an antenna], the added sec from my DVR isn't that bad, "though" the 8 seconds it takes for changing HD resolution "sucks".
Guide & other GUI menus don't show any slowness.
Comparing my 34 to my 24, does show it's a bit slower with the GUI, but "a bit" is maybe less than a second.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

"TMan" said:


> If they've set their bar so low as to simply be better than cable's boxes, then I think they've almost given up! It's like the old joke about two guys being chased by a bear: You don't have to outrun the bear (be the fastest), you just need to outrun the other guy (cable).


Actually, that's not my point. My point is the people they use in focus groups just don't know, and are probably so frustrated with their current GUIs that they think the simplest least amount of options and capabilities is all they want to work right. So that will make them say don't do this or that on the boxes, and DIRECTV might be listening to much to that kind of talk, IMHO. I could be wrong, but I see no other reason why we don't have more ways to sort out playlists by now.

I generally have an issue with focus groups in the first place, as they often keep companies from being innovative. Heck, we wouldn't have iPads and other tablets like we do today if they listened to focus groups who said they wherent needed!


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## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

Laxguy said:


> Nor are that many that capricious. Not that your decision was, but I do wonder why you need to repeat your choice so often, especially in DIRECTV® threads.


I keep following this board because it's entertaining. There's always the possibility of switching back to DirecTV after my 2-year FiOS commitment ends. So far, though, it doesn't look like I will.

I was a very early subscriber to DirecTV as a Hughes Aircraft Company retiree. I got a $5 per month discount coupon then that I had to send in with my bill every month.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

TMan said:


> That's a good point. But, I would think that absent other DVR experience (such as me with standalone TiVos, others with assorted Dish Network boxes) one would fall back on their general experience with consumer electronics. DVD players, cell phones, tablets, and even computers (though there is far more variability with computers). A Windows computer is likely to get all gummed up at some point and fall behind on processing user input, being responsive, etc. When that changes, it's noticeable, even if it's subtle.
> 
> Let's not also forget some of my (and others') complaints have nothing to do with the remote being responsive per se, but other egregious glitches like gray screens upon turning on the C31, or the need to reboot stuff because of lockups or freezes. That's just bad on an empirical level, no need for relative comparisons necessary.


I agree - some of the things - like the current troubles with the HR34 and the C31 - should not be happening and everyone will notice those.

I was referring to people that don't see the 'speed' troubles that I suspect all HR receivers have to some degree. At least every last one of them I have seen.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

veryoldschool said:


> I haven't had dish since I moved to HD.
> I've also not seen your inconsistent response to any degree with the DVRs I've had over the past 6 years.
> When my TV takes close to 2 sec to change channels [through an antenna], the added sec from my DVR isn't that bad, "though" the 8 seconds it takes for changing HD resolution "sucks".
> Guide & other GUI menus don't show any slowness.
> Comparing my 34 to my 24, does show it's a bit slower with the GUI, but "a bit" is maybe less than a second.


By inconsistent response I mean things like just scrolling down a list - either the guide or list of recordings. It isn't a smooth scroll - it pauses (briefly) here and there and sometimes makes you (ok me) overshoot the item you wanted because it paused just long enough.

Also some days the scrolling itself is faster than others.

I'm not all that concerned with channel changes myself - I watch practically no live TV and when I do it is sports and I just stay on the specific channel. I know the excruciating long channel changes drive channel surfers nuts - lucky for me I'm not one!

I suspect that if you can see 'a bit slower GUI' comparing the 34 to the 24 I think you'd see a much bigger 'bit of slower GUI' if you sit a Dish Network receiver next to your 34 and 24.

My old DirecTivo from way back was much easier to navigate around the GUI than my HR24s are and those things were pretty slow! They were however very consistent and never missed a push of remote button.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> I suspect that if you can see 'a bit slower GUI' comparing the 34 to the 24 I think you'd see a much bigger 'bit of slower GUI' if you sit a Dish Network receiver next to your 34 and 24.


I guess we lack a standard for comparison.
I page through my guide.
My 34 takes just a moment [longer] to bring up the guide and have a program highlighted. Once this has happened, it moves freely/quickly through it.
My 24 doesn't "take a moment" for the guide to be up and a program highlighted.

Someone a few years ago posted a video of a Dish guide scrolling. I've never had my guide scroll that fast.
I also don't want my guide to scroll that fast, as I want to see what's in the guide, which I couldn't see in the video as it scrolled.

I don't find inconsistencies with my remote and any receiver's response. The only time I don't get a response is due to forgetting a remote/receiver is set to IR [most are RF but not all] and not pointing the remote correctly.


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## JeffBowser (Dec 21, 2006)

Of anyone up here, you probably have the most respect (from me, anyway  ). I see your statements and have absolutely no reason to doubt them, or think that you have an agenda. So what does amaze me is that so many other people have a different experience on what is supposed to be equal equipment. Mine is such that I refuse to engage in any contract extensions or buy an HR24 because of my experiences and reading of others up here. It'd sure be nice to solve this mystery, and end my nightly surge of frustration that nearly ends in my TV screen having a large crack in it from a hurled remote.



veryoldschool said:


> I guess we lack a standard for comparison.
> I page through my guide.
> My 34 takes just a moment [longer] to bring up the guide and have a program highlighted. Once this has happened, it moves freely/quickly through it.
> My 24 doesn't "take a moment" for the guide to be up and a program highlighted.
> ...


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

JeffBowser said:


> Of anyone up here, you probably have the most respect (from me, anyway  ). I see your statements and have absolutely no reason to doubt them, or think that you have an agenda. So what does amaze me is that so many other people have a different experience on what is supposed to be equal equipment. Mine is such that I refuse to engage in any contract extensions or buy an HR24 because of my experiences and reading of others up here. It'd sure be nice to solve this mystery, and end my nightly surge of frustration that nearly ends in my TV screen having a large crack in it from a hurled remote.


Thanks Jeff for the kind words.
If I do have an agenda here, it's to try to help others.
I know the hardware functions fairly well, but for those with these slow responding receivers, I'm a bit at a loss, since I haven't seen it and really need to have a "hands on" to get a feel for what's going on.

The Sony DirecTV HD receiver I bought to come to DirecTV was the biggest POS I've ever seen or had in my home, so I do understand someone's frustrations. It took Sony a good 18 months before they swapped it for a newer model.


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## JeffBowser (Dec 21, 2006)

I had one of those Sonys, too. In fact, I still have it, it's on a shelf above my kitchen cabinets, serving as a platform to raise up one of my wife's numerous decorations.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

JeffBowser said:


> I had one of those Sonys, too. In fact, I still have it, it's on a shelf above my kitchen cabinets, serving as a platform to raise up one of my wife's numerous decorations.


At least you found a use for it. :lol:
Mine is just collecting dust.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

"JeffBowser" said:


> Of anyone up here, you probably have the most respect (from me, anyway  ). I see your statements and have absolutely no reason to doubt them, or think that you have an agenda. So what does amaze me is that so many other people have a different experience on what is supposed to be equal equipment. Mine is such that I refuse to engage in any contract extensions or buy an HR24 because of my experiences and reading of others up here. It'd sure be nice to solve this mystery, and end my nightly surge of frustration that nearly ends in my TV screen having a large crack in it from a hurled remote.


These differences in the same equipment (HR24 to HR24, not HR24 to HR21) is why I think more and more, often times the different experiences have nothing to do with the software on the receiver or the receiver itself, but all the other external things that interact with the receivers.


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## JeffBowser (Dec 21, 2006)

Like my fingers :lol:

Interesting note, now almost a week into my HR23-700 replacement for my HR23-700 french fry: My current HR23-700 is a bit more responsive. The only difference, aside from the obvious, is we only have 4 series links in it as opposed to the 34 we had in the old one, and we only have 4 recordings, versus the several dozen we had before. Same remote, same cables, same location, same TV, same people flinging invectives.....



inkahauts said:


> These differences in the same equipment (HR24 to HR24, not HR24 to HR21) is why I think more and more, often times the different experiences have nothing to do with the software on the receiver or the receiver itself, but all the other external things that interact with the receivers.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

inkahauts said:


> These differences in the same equipment (HR24 to HR24, not HR24 to HR21) is why I think more and more, often times the different experiences have nothing to do with the software on the receiver or the receiver itself, but all the other external things that interact with the receivers.


+1

Mine are hooked to the TV right above them. No Internet, No Whole Home DVR.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

inkahauts said:


> These differences in the same equipment (HR24 to HR24, not HR24 to HR21) is why I think more and more, often times the different experiences have nothing to do with the software on the receiver or the receiver itself, but all the other external things that interact with the receivers.


I think it also has to do with the way you Set it up such as how many channels are in your Customized Channels or do you even have a Customized Channels.

The more work you give the CPU Processor the Slower it will become. Also having a longer list of Series Links can impede performance as well as other things that bog down the Processor.

The reason I think that the HR24s perform better is because of the CPU Chipset which is Faster than the other HR2X DVRs and that is why I bought or acquired 4 HR24-500s that I have Zero Problems with and they are Fast but I do have Customized Channels.

Alos, having a WD 2 TB Drive with 32 Mb Cache doesn't hurt either.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

veryoldschool said:


> I also don't want my guide to scroll that fast, as I want to see what's in the guide, which I couldn't see in the video as it scrolled.


Guide scrolling speed is probably more of a performance benchmark than a useful tool for channel surfing.

Using the page buttons may (or may not) make more sense than scrolling; especially if DIRECTV finds it a competitive necessity to offer, perhaps optionally, a more densely populated grid.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

harsh said:


> Guide scrolling speed is probably more of a performance benchmark than a useful tool for channel surfing.
> 
> Using the page buttons may (or may not) make more sense than scrolling; especially if DIRECTV finds it a competitive necessity to offer, perhaps optionally, a more densely populated grid.


OK, so I just went to my HMC and brought up the guide. I held down the channel down button. The guide flew so fast I could only focus on the channel numbers. After about two and a half cycles of the guide, it stopped. I can repeat this by pressing the channel down again and it stops at about 2.5 again.
I changed the guide from custom to all channels and repeated it. 2.5 times again and it stops. Press again and 2.5 times through the guide again.

I'd say this was completely pointless, as there isn't any use for this, but it would be hard to say it could go faster.
If it didn't stop after 2.5 cycles, maybe that would means something but :shrug: I don't see that "faster" would be anything, since I couldn't keep track of anything but the channel numbers as they would flash by.


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## PCampbell (Nov 18, 2006)

My HR24s are more than fast enough running 62C. Not so good on the last software version. I had a HR21 and it was so slow to the point I could not use it.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

harsh said:


> Guide scrolling speed is probably more of a performance benchmark than a useful tool for channel surfing.
> 
> Using the page buttons may (or may not) make more sense than scrolling; especially if DIRECTV finds it a competitive necessity to offer, perhaps optionally, a more densely populated grid.


I use the page up or down until I find something intersting. Get a new page, scan it and then , if necessary, move on to the next page.


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## tigerwillow1 (Jan 26, 2009)

I don't condone, but understand, that if the CPU is heavily loaded a complex operation can take a while. Displaying the guide or the recording list is IMO probably somewhat complex. But I don't get the delay for doing something simple, like taking 5+ seconds to display the Quick Tune guide after pressing the 'up' button, or sometimes ignoring remote keypresses for 5+ seconds after hitting the stop button. This is with an H22.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Mike Greer said:


> I agree - some of the things - like the current troubles with the HR34 and the C31 - should not be happening and everyone will notice those.
> 
> I was referring to people that don't see the 'speed' troubles that I suspect all HR receivers have to some degree. At least every last one of them I have seen.


I cleaned out an HDD the other day and it took what seemed like forever. Now that's slowness, but how often do we do something like that?

I wish you lived near me, I could show you HRs that are not slow in any of the viewing functions. It's just that HD GUI that needs to be fixed. Altho, I don't usually see any slowness with the GUI that I don't expect.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> I guess we lack a standard for comparison.
> I page through my guide.
> My 34 takes just a moment [longer] to bring up the guide and have a program highlighted. Once this has happened, it moves freely/quickly through it.
> My 24 doesn't "take a moment" for the guide to be up and a program highlighted.
> ...


My 24-500s scroll thru the Guide so fast it's impossible to read anything. Or they did, I gave up on holding the Arrow buttons down to long when in the guide. Aside from that, my experiences with the 24s mirror yours.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

JeffBowser said:


> Of anyone up here, you probably have the most respect (from me, anyway  ). I see your statements and have absolutely no reason to doubt them, or think that you have an agenda. So what does amaze me is that so many other people have a different experience on what is supposed to be equal equipment. Mine is such that I refuse to engage in any contract extensions or buy an HR24 because of my experiences and reading of others up here. It'd sure be nice to solve this mystery, and end my nightly surge of frustration that nearly ends in my TV screen having a large crack in it from a hurled remote.


Try a 24, you'll see the difference immediately. I just picked up another 24 on eBay the other day for $75 + shipping and the $20 for the access card. No comittment renewal when activating.

Rich


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Rich said:


> I cleaned out an HDD the other day and it took what seemed like forever. Now that's slowness, but how often do we do something like that?
> 
> I wish you lived near me, I could show you HRs that are not slow in any of the viewing functions. It's just that HD GUI that needs to be fixed. Altho, I don't usually see any slowness with the GUI that I don't expect.
> 
> Rich


I think you'd have to compare it to a Dish Network receiver to see what I'm talking about.... Although it is easier to see since the HDGUI came out.

Not the end of the world - just wish DirecTV receivers could keep up with the smooth speed of my good old 622 from 5 or 6 years ago. Hard to believe the HR34 is slower than the HR24 - at least that what most are saying... I haven't seen one myself. Seems like they are going the wrong direction!


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

inkahauts said:


> These differences in the same equipment (HR24 to HR24, not HR24 to HR21) is why I think more and more, often times the different experiences have nothing to do with the software on the receiver or the receiver itself, but all the other external things that interact with the receivers.


I know this about the three 24s: If you do a complete reset of a large MRV system, the 24-500s populate a WHOLE lot faster than the 24-100s do. Seeing as how they both have the same OS, it must be the hardware of the 100s. At least that seems logical to me. I do know they have different chip sets.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

JeffBowser said:


> Like my fingers :lol:
> 
> Interesting note, now almost a week into my HR23-700 replacement for my HR23-700 french fry: My current HR23-700 is a bit more responsive. The only difference, aside from the obvious, is we only have 4 series links in it as opposed to the 34 we had in the old one, and we only have 4 recordings, versus the several dozen we had before. Same remote, same cables, same location, same TV, same people flinging invectives.....


As your HDD becomes fuller the 23 will slow down. The series links don't cause slowness of any kind that I've ever seen.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Mike Greer said:


> I think you'd have to compare it to a Dish Network receiver to see what I'm talking about.... Although it is easier to see since the HDGUI came out.


Yup, I have no idea what a Dish DVR even looks like. That GUI...makes me wonder if wishing for something (I didn't wish for an HD GUI) is worth it.



> Not the end of the world - just wish DirecTV receivers could keep up with the smooth speed of my good old 622 from 5 or 6 years ago. Hard to believe the HR34 is slower than the HR24 - at least that what most are saying... I haven't seen one myself. Seems like they are going the wrong direction!


Five tuners, it's kinda surprising it works as well as I've read.

Rich


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## patmurphey (Dec 21, 2006)

FYI - Hopper guide (The bottom row can be deactivated for another channel row.) Paging or typing a channel number is the best way to scroll.


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## JeffBowser (Dec 21, 2006)

I would, and have seriously thought about it when it first came out, for all the breathless reviews. Some wee small voice told me to wait. Sure enough, after some time, I started seeing the first of many complaints that it became nearly as slow as the previous generations. I'm holding out for a quantum leap. The processing power is available, they just need to decide to put it in their boxes.



Rich said:


> Try a 24, you'll see the difference immediately. I just picked up another 24 on eBay the other day for $75 + shipping and the $20 for the access card. No comittment renewal when activating.
> 
> Rich


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## TMan (Oct 31, 2007)

patmurphey said:


> FYI - Hopper guide (The bottom row can be deactivated for another channel row.) Paging or typing a channel number is the best way to scroll.


Three hours in the grid...what a concept!

It would be nice to see all of evening primetime, or beyond one long-ish movie, while looking for programs to watch/record.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

You might like a custom guide, such as you can make on TitanTV or similar sites. Even DIRECTV's online guide is three hours.


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## pappasbike (Sep 19, 2006)

I wanted to update a previous post of mine. I've had the 34 for a couple of weeks now and compared to the 21 that it replaced this is heaven. Even though I had to cough up the money to get it, it has saved me so much daily aggravation that it was well worth it. Even if it didn't have the additional features that it has.

Prior to my 21s I had the HR20 which was fine except for being quite noisy. Than after a particular software update there were frequent episodes of some type of disk activity which was audibly noticeable. During these periods the 20 would barely respond to any remote input, guide scrolling extremely slow, etc. Then I got these replaced with the 21s hoping for an improvement. There was one improvement, they were considerably quieter than the 20. But the scrolling, channel changing, bringing up the guide, just about everything I do with a tv was as bad as using a dial up modem on your computer. Frustrating enough that if they were the only DTV HD dvr option I would cancel my service and not think twice about it. I've been a loyal customer for 12 years and I paid up front to get the 34 so I want to stay with their service but those dvrs are an abomination which should be recalled and destroyed!

Anyway back to the 34. In all the ways I was frustrated with the 21s this has been a huge improvement. There are some issues which so far have been minor ( from reading on here I'm glad I didn't get it when first released ) and overall acceptable given the improvement I am getting in those other areas. I've read that overall most people are also happy with the 24s which I was also considering getting but decided to just go for this. In my opinion these two should be the only HD dvrs they install.


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## rmmccann (Apr 16, 2012)

I noticed this weekend that as I spent more and more time on sports networks (ESPN, NFLN and NFLST) the slower my receiver (HR34) would get. At one point it was pretty unresponsive for 20-30 seconds. In-between games I was doing the channel 1 trick (and the NVRAM clear just for "good" measure) and that cleared up the responsiveness issues right away.

The slowdown almost HAS to have something to do with the random TV apps that are available. I think they should give us the option to completely disable or selectively disable unused Apps to maybe prevent this. Score Guide, although handy, is hardly used in my household and I could live without it, especially in the days of smartphones and tablets.

I don't know if it was in this thread or another, but I also think DirecTV would be smart moving towards a "modular" receiver design. IE: use something like an HR24 with two tuners available and make parts like the HD (for DVR) and power supply end-user swappable. You'd still probably have to keep the HR34 and C31s separate since they are so different from the norm, but if you give yourself only 3-4 models of receivers to write software for, you can completely optimize the code and hopefully get rid of some of these performance issues. This also allows the benefit of not making your customers unhappy when you send them a 3 year old replacement DVR for the one that puked due to a bad part, you just ship the part and the customer or a tech swaps it and everyone is happy again.

Regardless, it's not enough of an issue for me to want to switch, but I did find it very noticeable over this last weekend in particular.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

rmmccann said:


> I noticed this weekend that as I spent more and more time on sports networks (ESPN, NFLN and NFLST) the slower my receiver (HR34) would get. At one point it was pretty unresponsive for 20-30 seconds. In-between games I was doing the channel 1 trick (and the NVRAM clear just for "good" measure) and that cleared up the responsiveness issues right away.
> 
> The slowdown almost HAS to have something to do with the random TV apps that are available. I think they should give us the option to completely disable or selectively disable unused Apps to maybe prevent this. Score Guide, although handy, is hardly used in my household and I could live without it, especially in the days of smartphones and tablets.
> 
> ...


When you go to these sports channels, try pressing the exit button a couple of times until you hear it make the bonk sound. This turns off the Interactive Scoring, The surf the guide or change channels, etc. and see if this keeps the speed up.
Veryoldschool posted this quite awhile back in this thread and I have been using it and it appears to work for me with my HR23 and HR24.


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## rmmccann (Apr 16, 2012)

jimmie57 said:


> When you go to these sports channels, try pressing the exit button a couple of times until you hear it make the bonk sound. This turns off the Interactive Scoring, The surf the guide or change channels, etc. and see if this keeps the speed up.
> Veryoldschool posted this quite awhile back in this thread and I have been using it and it appears to work for me with my HR23 and HR24.


Thanks. Yeah, I've tried that and it wasn't doing much for me yesterday. It would help when switching between games, but when I would switch back to a normal channel and then come back later it seemed to go bonkers (even with exit key presses). Yesterday my HR34 was just cranky. Friday (was watching some college ball) it was bad but not as bad as Sunday - I also spent more time on one network as opposed to switching games every commercial break.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Let's hope that someone in DirecTV engineering and/or management is embarrassed enough to actually do something about DirecTV DVRs. I don't have much hope - it has been more than 6 years of what seems to be mediocre engineering&#8230; The ideas are great - the features are great - the implementation sucks!

With threads like this http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=211290 about their latest and greatest things don't look to get better any time soon. Their latest and greatest is now a year old and still seems to have significant issues with basic features of a DVR.

Here's hoping for a change in DirecTV someday soon&#8230;


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> Let's hope that someone in DirecTV engineering and/or management is embarrassed enough to actually do something about DirecTV DVRs. I don't have much hope - it has been more than 6 years of what seems to be mediocre engineering&#8230; The ideas are great - the features are great - the implementation sucks!
> 
> With threads like this http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=211290 about their latest and greatest things don't look to get better any time soon. Their latest and greatest is now a year old and still seems to have significant issues with basic features of a DVR.
> 
> Here's hoping for a change in DirecTV someday soon&#8230;


"You know it's Monday when..."
You need to scour the forum for someone else's vent to support your agenda.
Has my HR34 done the same thing? Yes, it did back in June when I first got it. Has it done it in the last several months? nope.

If I had an agenda, I'm sure I could find other posts on the internet that would support my agenda, regardless of what or who it was about.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

veryoldschool said:


> "You know it's Monday when..."
> You need to scour the forum for someone else's vent to support your agenda.
> Has my HR34 done the same thing? Yes, it did back in June when I first got it. Has it done it in the last several months? nope.
> 
> If I had an agenda, I'm sure I could find other posts on the internet that would support my agenda, regardless of what or who it was about.


Sorry VOS - didn't mean to ruin your day!

'Scour' is a pretty strong word - all you need to do pretty much any day of the week is look at the last 5 or 6 posts to find someone with one of the recurring complaints. Slow, remote response troubles, new firmware will fix that from the same groups (not you!) etc.

My scouring was clicking on the latest post in the HD DVR forum.

I do have an agenda - I want DirecTV to fix their DVRs. I know they are not idiots&#8230; Like I said their ideas are great the features are great they just can't seem to get past the same recurring troubles.

BTW - I only referred to that other thread because it is about trouble with DirecTV's newest DVR&#8230;. Meaning they continue to struggle with the software on their DVRs.

I have stated multiple times that I don't think every DirecTV receiver has all the problems and I know you don't think that because you don't have a particular problem it means that no one else does&#8230;.

Have a better Monday!


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## TMan (Oct 31, 2007)

My HR34, and even my C31s, behaved themselves this weekend.

These devices are still earning my trust. I still treat them with a certain amount of "technical apprehension."


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> Sorry VOS - didn't mean to ruin your day!


You didn't, and you have sympathy for your own troubles.
This doesn't transfer though when you post a link to someone else's post about another model, that nobody knows what's going on with. They may just have a defective receiver, or who know what. :shrug:


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

TMan said:


> My HR34, and even my C31s, behaved themselves this weekend.
> 
> These devices are still earning my trust. I still treat them with a certain amount of "technical apprehension."


The C31s and RVU have their own teething troubles.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

veryoldschool said:


> You didn't, and you have sympathy for your own troubles.
> This doesn't transfer though when you post a link to someone else's post about another model, that nobody knows what's going on with. They may just have a defective receiver, or who know what. :shrug:


VOS - I consider you to be one the levelheaded regulars here. I know that when I get under your skin I've likely pushed it too far!

I just read the thread about the HR34 troubles and then the multiple pile on about the troubles by the others in that thread and thought - 'Business as usual in DirecTV engineering'.... Wasn't really looking to stir the pot... Ok, well, at least not to the degree it came across!


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

TMan said:


> My HR34, and even my C31s, behaved themselves this weekend.
> 
> These devices are still earning my trust. I still treat them with a certain amount of "technical apprehension."


I don't trust any DVR. D* could alleviate that distrust by allowing us to swap HDDs between HRs WITHIN OUR ACCOUNTS. Please?

Rich


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> VOS - I consider you to be one the levelheaded regulars here. I know that when I get under your skin I've likely pushed it too far!
> 
> I just read the thread about the HR34 troubles and then the multiple pile on about the troubles by the others in that thread and thought - 'Business as usual in DirecTV engineering'.... Wasn't really looking to stir the pot... Ok, well, at least not to the degree it came across!


The whole HD DVR "road" has been bumpy to say the least.
DirecTV currently is supporting 11 different HD DVRs, with each running a slightly different code.
TiVo seems to have better code from the reports, but took several years for the THR22 to come to the market.
I guess there will always be a debate as to whether DirecTV should keep adding new features or stop and focus on improving overall performance for every user. :shrug:


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Mike Greer said:


> Let's hope that someone in DirecTV engineering and/or management is embarrassed enough to actually do something about DirecTV DVRs.
> 
> Here's hoping for a change in DirecTV someday soon&#8230;


The problem as I have stated before is many faceted:
(1) Underpowered CPUs with Insufficient RAM
(2) Poorly written Software
(3) HDGUI which slowed everthing down
(4) Trying to make the DVR do too many things that it was not designed for

Directv has made some Excellent Improvements such as the HR24 and HR34 Models which have More Horsepower and More RAM and are more efficient DVRs.

I think a Senior Manager in Directv's Marketing Dept. probably woke and realized that they needed these changes in HP and RAM in order to support all of the things they plan on making the DVR do. 

*EDIT: Some of us who Own HR24s have Replaced the Internal Hard Drive with Faster 2 TB Drives with a Larger Cache so maybe that is also helping us Resolve Problems and Experience Better Performance.*


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## TMan (Oct 31, 2007)

I hear the "HD GUI" mentioned a lot as a potential culprit in loss of performance.

Aside from the inset window where the program keeps playing, displaying a menu hardly seems like a overwhelming task for a device that is otherwise capable of putting out full-screen, full-motion HD video to one (or more) televisions, while also possibly recording one or more programs. Oh no, I have to render a scrolling menu, text, and a big, fat cursor..._but in HD?!_ Quelle horreur!  It's a program guide and an inset, not Call of Duty.

Corollary: can I noticably speed up my Windows computer by easing its screen resolution? It won't have to work as hard if I reduce the number of those pesky pixels it has to concern itself with. 

It would be so lame of them if, all else being equal, rendering high-def menus was the straw that broke the camel's back.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

TMan said:


> It would be so lame of them if, all else being equal, rendering high-def menus was the straw that broke the camel's back.


Quite true - but of course that is not the case.

As others have pointed out - some of the firmware running on older (pre HR24) models do indeed sometimes struggle to perform guide, menu, and other screen presentations in a brisk manner. The processor (and graphics chip) in more recent generation units are significant tech leaps over previous HD DVRs and receivers.

In addition, hard drives and their corresponding data cache sizes and speeds have evolved over recent years. Other components are also "newer and faster" inside. The quantity of data transmitted, received, and processed these days is exponentially more than just 2-3 years ago.

All these advancements have allowed the newer HR24 and HR34 generation HD DVRs and comparable HD receivers to support more robust firmware that includes new, additional, enhanced capabilities.

Despite all of this...the firmware continues to be refined over time, and even older models can experience improved performance with the "latest and greatest" features. Progress has been made - some work still needs to be done.

Consider a 4-5 year old PC running Windows 7 or Windows 8. A similar paradigm fits.

In reality, I would not anticipate nor expect a 3, 4, 5, or 6 year old HD DVR to run the latest and greatest firmware in like manner to a new - 18 month-old device. That expectation simply doesn't seem realistic.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Progress has been made - some work still needs to be done.


Finally! We agree on something!:lol:


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Mike Greer said:


> Finally! We agree on something!:lol:


Well that's nice....as long as the big picture explained in Post 390 is part of the consideration.


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## TMan (Oct 31, 2007)

Maybe their next DVR will have the exact same RAM, CPU, and hard drive hardware, but with the addition of two or three more tuners. It will therefore be even busier, and menu and RVU client performance will suffer accordingly. 

Okay, just kidding.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Well that's nice....as long as the big picture explained in Post 390 is part of the consideration.


I know, I know - it's not good for your reputation to be caught agreeing with anything I say!:lol:

I understand what you're saying.... And agree to a certain degree. My only point would be that a Dish Network 622 DVR from 6 or 7 years ago is still, to this day, much quicker in every way than an HR24 from DirecTV.

I do prefer DirecTV obviously... I put up with their firmware troubles year after year and I still keep paying my bill every month... Maybe DirecTV could just steal some engineers from Dish Network?

DirecTV does have the vision - they have some cool stuff - maybe they just need a little help in the engineering department where the rubber meets the road.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Mike Greer said:


> *I know, I know - it's not good for your reputation to be caught agreeing with anything I say*!:lol:


!rolling:goodjob:


> I understand what you're saying.... And agree to a certain degree. My only point would be that a Dish Network 622 DVR from 6 or 7 years ago is still, to this day, much quicker in every way than an HR24 from DirecTV.
> 
> I do prefer DirecTV obviously... I put up with their firmware troubles year after year and I still keep paying my bill every month... Maybe DirecTV could just steal some engineers from Dish Network?
> 
> DirecTV does have the vision - they have some cool stuff - maybe they just need a little help in the engineering department where the rubber meets the road.


Points well taken.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Mike Greer said:


> I do prefer DirecTV obviously... I put up with their firmware troubles year after year and I still keep paying my bill every month... Maybe DirecTV could just steal some engineers from Dish Network?


Directv doesn't need to steal engineers from Dish they just need to Focus on fixing what they have that needs attention performance wise and quit trying to Add Bells & Whistles but that is the Nature of the Marketing Department in almost every company.

They are Obsessed with having to come up with New Great Marketing Ideas and Bells and Whistles that can't be supported by their equipment. They are afraid they will lose their job if they don't.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Mike Greer said:


> I know, I know - it's not good for your reputation to be caught agreeing with anything I say!:lol:


*Now that is Funny!!!* :lol::lol::lol:


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Richierich said:


> DirecTV doesn't need to steal engineers from Dish they just need to Focus on fixing what they have that needs attention performance wise and quit trying to Add Bells & Whistles but that is the Nature of the Marketing Department in almost every company.


Comparing HD DVRs anyway is likely somewhat out of sync...each does similar things but in different ways and to different degrees of sophistication.

I suspect no one is worried about their jobs - there's plenty of innovation going on for years now and plenty of work being done to improve upon the results.

It is also puzzling to understand all the extended discussions by a few folks pondering the use of menus/guides (UI) anyway. Most often, this makes up <3% of the total HD DVR experience - with the other 97%+ made up of actually watching content.

Perhaps the *real net effect *of it all is that the ideas/capabilities are moving at a brisker pace than the hardware. Then again, DirecTV has released new units quite regularly for some time now.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

Richierich said:


> Directv doesn't need to steal engineers from Dish they just need to Focus on fixing what they have that needs attention performance wise and quit trying to Add Bells & Whistles but that is the Nature of the Marketing Department in almost every company.
> 
> They are Obsessed with having to come up with New Great Marketing Ideas and Bells and Whistles that can't be supported by their equipment. They are afraid they will lose their job if they don't.


+1....... Two long term issues come to mind. Caller ID and Smart Search. Caller ID comes and goes like the weather. One day it's working, the next day it isn't. With Smart Search I bank a list of my favorite actors and directors using Recent Searches. John Wayne is one of them. When I select his name a list of his films appear but no photo or background information. Yet, if I select one of his films, then select Cast & Crew his picture and background information are there. This issue is with other actors and directors in my Recent Searches list but not with all of them. Horns and Whistles are nice but DirecTV needs to fix the current ones before adding more.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Perhaps the *real net effect *of it all is that the ideas/capabilities are moving at a brisker pace than the hardware. Then again, DirecTV has released new units quite regularly for some time now.


That is why I think that the HR24 and the HR34 DVRs are starting to meet those capabilities of all of those Bells and Whistles, more HP and RAM was needed along with a better hard drive and Optimized Software Code.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Richierich said:


> That is why I think that the HR24 and the HR34 DVRs are starting to meet those capabilities of all of those Bells and Whistles, more HP and RAM was needed along with a better hard drive and Optimized Software Code.


Yup - and why the older units (HR20's are over 6 years old) struggle.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Yup - and why the older units (HR20's are over 6 years old) struggle.


EXACTLY!!!

The older units were not designed to do all of the heavy work that is being thrown at them so Directv got smart finally and addressed the Issue of Sluggisness and Upgraded their CPU, RAM and Hard Drive along with streamlining some old code to make it work better.

Directv needs to get rid of those older DVRs and Replace them Free with New HR24s or HR34s to keep those existing customers happy so they want leave and go to Dish or Comcast.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

"Richierich" said:


> EXACTLY!!!
> 
> The older units were not designed to do all of the heavy work that is being thrown at them so Directv got smart finally and addressed the Issue of Sluggisness and Upgraded their CPU, RAM and Hard Drive along with streamlining some old code to make it work better.
> 
> Directv needs to get rid of those older DVRs and Replace them Free with New HR24s or HR34s to keep those existing customers happy so they want leave and go to Dish or Comcast.


That's never going to happen. No company does that. They will upgrade all the sd people to Hi Definition before they ever upgrade old Hi Definition equipment, especially considering the whole point of the leased program is to keep these machines in the field for a minimum amount of time.

With that said,I think we have seen the last of new features in all hx2x units. I think any more new features will only be on the genie, like genie recommends, etc. I only see tweaking and improving existing stuff on the hr2x units.

Not to mention, my HR20 and HR21 are faster now than they where before the Hi Definition GUI. Not by much, but a little.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

inkahauts said:


> With that said,I think we have seen the last of new features in all hx2x units. I think any more new features will only be on the genie, like genie recommends, etc. I only see tweaking and improving existing stuff on the hr2x units.
> 
> Not to mention, my HR20 and HR21 are faster now than they where before the Hi Definition GUI. Not by much, but a little.


Agree with you....certainly no major changes on the legacy devices.

Anything older than an HR24/H24 will likely not see much more than what is there today going forward in terms of firmware-based capabilities.


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## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> It is also puzzling to understand all the extended discussions by a few folks pondering the use of menus/guides (UI) anyway. Most often, this makes up <3% of the total HD DVR experience - with the other 97%+ made up of actually watching content.


Umm.. you need the GUI to tell the DVR what you want to watch. Turning the key in the ignition to start a car is 1% of the driving experience, but it's the most critical part. Because if your car doesn't get the signal to start, none of the car's other features will matter.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

bobcamp1 said:


> Umm.. you need the GUI to tell the DVR what you want to watch. Turning the key in the ignition to start a car is 1% of the driving experience, but it's the most critical part. Because if your car doesn't get the signal to start, none of the car's other features will matter.


Ummm...and that takes maybe 1-3% (or less) of all the time one uses their HDTV.

Most of the time is spent WATCHING it.

Taking 3 seconds or 10 seconds on this and that in the GUI is far from any major thing. Some people seem to infer they spend more time with their User Interface than watching anything.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

inkahauts said:


> That's never going to happen. They will upgrade all the sd people to Hi Definition before they ever upgrade old Hi Definition equipment, especially considering the whole point of the leased program is to keep these machines in the field for a *minimum* amount of time.


I think you meant to say for a maximum amount of time rather than a minimum. :lol:


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

"Richierich" said:


> I think you meant to say for a maximum amount of time rather than a minimum. :lol:


No, minimum. For example hr20s are now past their minimum, so they no longer supply those to people. They are not going to replace ones already in the field, no one would do that proactively at this point. But they aren't going to hand them out anymore either.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

I know Directv will Never Replace those DVRs but for a Multi Billion Dollar Company I would think it would make sense to do so and therefore you would Reduce Churn which is the Number One thing Dish, Comcast and Directv would like to avoid as it costs them a lot of money.

Happy Customers not only stay with you but they tell Friends and Family so it is not just that one household you might lose but perhaps 5 or 10 more households.


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## rmmccann (Apr 16, 2012)

Richierich said:


> I know Directv will Never Replace those DVRs but for a Multi Billion Dollar Company I would think it would make sense to do so and therefore you would Reduce Churn which is the Number One thing Dish, Comcast and Directv would like to avoid as it costs them a lot of money.
> 
> Happy Customers not only stay with you but they tell Friends and Family so it is not just that one household you might lose but perhaps 5 or 10 more households.


Actually I think new customers and advertising are what cost companies the most money. Promotions, discounted equipment, free installation - that all comes out of someone's pocket. A lost customer is just a lost revenue stream that they've already recouped their original costs to acquire for.

Furthermore, proactively replacing old equipment is also not something the investors or board are going to approve because there is nothing financial to gain from it. It would be a massive expense that the company would have to absorb and they may not even keep the customers that they are trying to appease with this approach, resulting in a net loss on the account. The only way something like this could fly is if they automatically renew you to a 2 year contract upon equipment replacement.

It's just simple business. You throw money at bringing in new customers and you deal with the ones that cry the loudest. Churn is going to be unavoidable at some point because people change service for a variety of reasons, not just because the equipment "sucks" - they may save money bundling elsewhere, want to spend less on entertainment or just may have something they personally dislike about a company.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Shucks....after over 400 posts....it would seem the original question must have been answered by now.... :shrug:


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## TMan (Oct 31, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Ummm...and that takes maybe 1-3% (or less) of all the time one uses their HDTV.
> 
> Most of the time is spent WATCHING it.
> 
> Taking 3 seconds or 10 seconds on this and that in the GUI is far from any major thing. Some people seem to infer they spend more time with their User Interface than watching anything.


No, I don't think it's that at all. It's just the time spent in the GUI is potentially the most aggravating, regardless of what the actual time proportion is.

For example, I started playback of a recording last night on my C31. I just got a blank gray screen. I was still able to back out to the list, so I scrolled down to the same program, hit play, and then it worked properly. Okay then; thanks for the random glitch.

The time spent messing with that is clearly within the 1-3% of time spent using the equipment, if not less, but I assure you it's the most annoying! That harms the perceived quality and utility of the whole service. At least it does for me.

My father-in-law just got this same setup earlier this week, as they just moved to a different house and switched to D*. I wonder what his experience has been thus far, as he isn't coming from the same tech-savvy background like we are here on the forum. Also his first time having a DVR. Looking forward to discussing it with him when they visit this weekend.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Shucks....after over 400 posts....it would seem the original question must have been answered by now.... :shrug:


Are any receivers responsive?

Well, sort of&#8230;

If you can't put up with the quirks you're better off just turning the TV off.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Shucks....after over 400 posts....it would seem the original question must have been answered by now.... :shrug:


Consider these two points:

1. Speed is subjective.

2. Speed relative to other products in the marketplace is something that many posters aren't all that well acquainted with.

When someone claims that they aren't experiencing any speed issues yet they note that channel changes could take eight or more seconds, you have to think that there's a disconnect (or rose colored glasses) between the sample and the rest of the HD DVR marketplace.

There's also the issue of how one measures speed and whether or not those metrics have much application in real life.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

WOW. Now I feel so enlightened.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

harsh said:


> When someone claims that they aren't experiencing any speed issues yet they note that channel changes could take eight or more seconds, you have to think that there's a disconnect (or rose colored glasses) between the sample and the rest of the HD DVR marketplace.


"REALLY"?
One may not have speed problems that others have, but acknowledges changing resolutions can take too long, and is either using rose colored glasses or are completely disconnected?

Now we all know that you don't have rose colored glasses, but one might say you are disconnected, since you don't have DirecTV. :nono:


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## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Ummm...and that takes maybe 1-3% (or less) of all the time one uses their HDTV.
> 
> Most of the time is spent WATCHING it.
> 
> Taking 3 seconds or 10 seconds on this and that in the GUI is far from any major thing. Some people seem to infer they spend more time with their User Interface than watching anything.


I'm not just trying to watch TV, I'm trying to direct TV. But I can't because I can't control the #[email protected]!% DVR! I either end up watching video I don't want to watch or I'm stuck on a frozen guide for 5 to 30 seconds. I don't count that as watching TV.

When changing to CNN, channel 202, the DVR takes 4 seconds to interpret that as a 20, then it takes 4 seconds to change to channel 20, then spends four seconds on that channel, then it takes another 4 seconds changing to channel 2. So I press 2-0-2 again, but this time it waits 4 seconds, interprets that as changing to channel 2, followed by a 4 second pause, followed by another attempt to change to channel 02. I press 2-0-2 again and finally the box takes 6 seconds to change to 202. That only took 30 seconds to change a channel. And that apparently is just a minor problem. Uh-oh, here come the commercials, do I dare attempt to change channels again?

The HR24 has a different experience. It always interprets the channel number correctly and usually behaves. But sometimes there is a 7 to 30 second period where it refuses to acknowledge your existence. So I spend 30 seconds watching video I couldn't care less about or staring at the frozen GUI, then the box grants me permission to change the channel or continue using the guide. But not before it processes all the buttons I pressed in that unresponsive period. Of course, I have to spend a few seconds correcting THAT, then I perform my 4-6 second channel change. Once again, it takes over 30 seconds just to change a channel. But at least that only happens once in a while. I should be thankful for that apparently.

Now I've been told I should try resetting the DVR -- that's 15 minutes of my life I'm not getting back. I'm not watching TV then either. And that causes the DVR to slow down for two days as it's processing guide data, leading to more of the same problems I'm trying to fix.

With FIOS, I can actually channel surf again. In HD! On a big screen TV! I've forgotten how to do that in the 15 years I was a DirecTV customer.


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## JeffBowser (Dec 21, 2006)

Thanks for that description. This is precisely why my wife refuses to touch the remote anymore.



bobcamp1 said:


> I'm not just trying to watch TV, I'm trying to direct TV. But I can't because I can't control the #[email protected]!% DVR! I either end up watching video I don't want to watch or I'm stuck on a frozen guide for 5 to 30 seconds. I don't count that as watching TV.
> 
> When changing to CNN, channel 202, the DVR takes 4 seconds to interpret that as a 20, then it takes 4 seconds to change to channel 20, then spends four seconds on that channel, then it takes another 4 seconds changing to channel 2. So I press 2-0-2 again, but this time it waits 4 seconds, interprets that as changing to channel 2, followed by a 4 second pause, followed by another attempt to change to channel 02. I press 2-0-2 again and finally the box takes 6 seconds to change to 202. That only took 30 seconds to change a channel. And that apparently is just a minor problem. Uh-oh, here come the commercials, do I dare attempt to change channels again?
> 
> ...


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

bobcamp1 said:


> I'm not just trying to watch TV, I'm trying to direct TV.


Uh...sure...Ok.

Since multiple HD DVRs here and HD receivers simply don't have any significant impact or issues as you described for the end user experience in this household...and only a fraction of time is spent "directing" our HDTVs for scheduling and programming guide use...it's unfortunate your older device seem to have a problem.

That's not the case with HR24's or newer, which you referenced as well. As others have repeatedly point out...running jet fuel in an older car doesn't usually make it run faster. The same holds true for firmware.


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## SFNSXguy (Apr 17, 2006)

I guess I'm the Lone Ranger... my three HR20-700 perform very well. Granted I have to "wake them up" (the first command or two is slow)... but after that I cannot complain about speed of channel changes and the like (except perhaps trick play from a remote room via whole home).
Three HR20-700 -- two with 2TB external drives
Whole home via hard wired ethernet.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

SFNSXguy said:


> I guess I'm the Lone Ranger... my three HR20-700 perform very well. Granted I have to "wake them up" (the first command or two is slow)... but after that I cannot complain about speed of channel changes and the like (except perhaps trick play from a remote room via whole home).
> Three HR20-700 -- two with 2TB external drives
> Whole home via hard wired ethernet.


Good to hear.

But of course you know that a few others will debate that even though it's what you actually see with your own eyes... 

Still - many of us are not surprised. Enjoy.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

SFNSXguy said:


> I guess I'm the Lone Ranger... my three HR20-700 perform very well. Granted I have to "wake them up" (the first command or two is slow)... but after that I cannot complain about speed of channel changes and the like (except perhaps trick play from a remote room via whole home).
> Three HR20-700 -- two with 2TB external drives
> Whole home via hard wired ethernet.


I've got 3 HR20-700s that still run well. After they "wake up". I also find that the 24s I have and use primarily as servers take a little bit of time to realize that they're actually being used as DVRs.

Rich


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## JeffBowser (Dec 21, 2006)

And you don't debate what we see with our eyes? You're essentially saying there is no problem and that those of us with doggy DVRs are wrong.

If you can do it, then why can't we? 



hdtvfan0001 said:


> Good to hear.
> 
> But of course you know that a few others will debate that even though it's what you actually see with your own eyes...
> 
> Still - many of us are not surprised. Enjoy.


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## TMan (Oct 31, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> That's not the case with HR24's or newer, which you referenced as well. As others have repeatedly point out...running jet fuel in an older car doesn't usually make it run faster. The same holds true for firmware.


The HR34 certainly isn't winning any sprint medals at the DVR Olympics, either.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

veryoldschool said:


> Now we all know that you don't have rose colored glasses, but one might say you are disconnected, since you don't have DirecTV. :nono:


Those familiar with only one product line aren't much qualified to make comparative judgements.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Uh...sure...Ok.
> 
> Since multiple HD DVRs here and HD receivers simply don't have any significant impact or issues as you described for the end user experience in this household...and only a fraction of time is spent "directing" our HDTVs for scheduling and programming guide use...it's unfortunate your older device seem to have a problem.
> 
> That's not the case with HR24's or newer, which you referenced as well. As others have repeatedly point out...running jet fuel in an older car doesn't usually make it run faster. The same holds true for firmware.


Using that logic makes your HR24 start locking up around 10 days after a reboot just like mine does!:lol:

You can't have it both ways!


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Mike Greer said:


> Using that logic makes your HR24 start locking up around 10 days after a reboot just like mine does!:lol:
> 
> You can't have it both ways!


All I know Mike is that I got rid of all of my HR2X Older DVRs and Replaced them with HR24s and now I am a Happy Camper except for the 2 HR23-700 DVRs that are a tad slow to respond but I just use them as Backup DVRs for Archiving Purposes so it doesn't bother me.

However, I am sure glad I went to the HR24s and I recommended Rich to do the same and now he is also a Happy Camper like me. :hurah:


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

JeffBowser said:


> And you don't debate what we see with our eyes? You're essentially saying there is no problem and that those of us with doggy DVRs are wrong.
> 
> If you can do it, then why can't we?


You certainly can. That said...without knowing how your entire hardware, DECA network, and HD DVR configuration setup is arranged, as well as firmware versions on each unit...comparisons are not apples to apples for anyone. 


TMan said:


> The HR34 certainly isn't winning any sprint medals at the DVR Olympics, either.


It's quite perky here right now. Using it most of the day.


harsh said:


> Those familiar with only one product line aren't much qualified to make comparative judgments.


Then again, having a Dish customer make any comparisons on anything DirecTV-oriented is meaningless. That's not Harsh....it's a fact.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

harsh said:


> Those familiar with only one product line aren't much qualified to make comparative judgements.


But they can make observations about what they're using, which doesn't seem to be your case here.

Are there "faster" DVRs out there? :shrug:
I question someone saying theirs tunes in < 500 ms, but that's because my own TV can't do that from an OTA antenna.
I haven't channel surfed since cable added a guide some 20 years ago. I surf the guide.
I've seen the dish video scrolling through their guide and would be hard pressed to see a difference from my own HMC/Genie speed. Maybe a high speed camera could show a difference but if it's faster than I can read, what's the point of being faster?

Do I wait a moment for my guide to come up?
Sure, but it's truly only a moment, and so short it's hard to quantify. I doubt I'd get past "one" of a count.

Does the DVR take longer to tune to a channel than my TV? 
Yep, by about 1 sec. It's slower when it changes resolutions, but this is an option I select, and I can turn it off if it was a problem.
With U-Verse I didn't have the option, and since I watch three or four resolutions, I'd rather have the option than not.
So I guess I do have more experience than with "one product".


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

veryoldschool said:


> I haven't channel surfed since cable added a guide some 20 years ago. I surf the guide.


I Surf The Guide Also so why do people find the need to Channel Surf when you can just Select the Guide and scroll down the Guide until you find something on a Channe that you want to watch!!!


----------



## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Richierich said:


> I Surf The Guide Also so why do people find the need to Channel Surf when you can just Select the Guide and scroll down the Guide until you find something on a Channe that you want to watch!!!


Yeah. Channel surfing was necessary when we had a handful of channels and no on screen guide and out of date printed guides. But no more, thanks be to any deity of your choice.

The DIRECTV app for iPad is the king of guides for guide surfing in my household.


----------



## tomski35 (Sep 7, 2007)

"JeffBowser" said:


> Thanks for that description. This is precisely why my wife refuses to touch the remote anymore.


+1. It's a constant battle to keep DTV,


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

"Richierich" said:


> I Surf The Guide Also so why do people find the need to Channel Surf when you can just Select the Guide and scroll down the Guide until you find something on a Channe that you want to watch!!!


And some people, like me, don't channel or guide surf


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

dpeters11 said:


> And some people, like me, don't channel or guide surf


Do you, what, guess a ch. number and enter it on inspiration or faith? 

You surely must peruse some sort of guide from time to time....!


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Richierich said:


> All I know Mike is that I got rid of all of my HR2X Older DVRs and Replaced them with HR24s and now I am a Happy Camper except for the 2 HR23-700 DVRs that are a tad slow to respond but I just use them as Backup DVRs for Archiving Purposes so it doesn't bother me.
> 
> However, I am sure glad I went to the HR24s and I recommended Rich to do the same and now he is also a Happy Camper like me. :hurah:


I'm much happier with the HR24s but they still need some work. They were faster and more responsive before the HDGUI.

I was just trying to say the hdtvfan0001 shouldn't assume that everyone is having the same experience as he is&#8230; Just as I should not assume that everyone with HR24s is having my experience.

It's pretty obvious from the bazillion posts here on DBSTALK that not everyone is having the same experience.

Just in my house I am having 3 different experiences with 3 different HR24-500s! They all have the same firmware and configuration but are not 'the same'&#8230;..


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> Just in my house I am having 3 different experiences with 3 different HR24-500s! They all have the same firmware and configuration but are not 'the same'&#8230;..


Clearly it must be "user error" !rolling


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

veryoldschool said:


> Clearly it must be "user error" !rolling


Clearly! But as far as I know I only have two distinct personalities - not 3!


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> Clearly! But as far as I know I only have two distinct personalities - not 3!


So you're not using the only one that is working correctly. :lol:


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Mike Greer said:


> I was just trying to say the hdtvfan0001 shouldn't assume that everyone is having the same experience as he is&#8230; Just as I should not assume that everyone with HR24s is having my experience.


Never assumed it...but plenty of evidence that most folks see fast UI interactions with HR24 and newer units, which would be expected.


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

veryoldschool said:


> So you're not using the only one that is working correctly. :lol:


Yep - oddly I use all three at different times! I didn't buy into receivers I don't use! I guess I could order up 3 or 4 extra and use all of them for a month then send back slowest, most problematic ones... But then I expect DirecTV to do their own quality control!

You'd think an HR24-500 was HR24-500. Maybe they made some hardware changes along the line? Who knows - but they are not all the same.

Funny thing is the only one that Caller ID works reliably on is the one I have the most trouble with....


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Never assumed it...but plenty of evidence that most folks see fast UI interactions with HR24 and newer units, which would be expected.


Also plenty of 'evidence' that there a quite a number of people with the same old recurring troubles.....


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Mike Greer said:


> Also plenty of 'evidence' that there a quite a number of people with the same old recurring troubles.....


I suspected you might have hit your head accidently when you fainted from my agreement earlier.... :lol:


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I suspected you might have hit your head accidently when you fainted from my agreement earlier.... :lol:


I'm actually still in shock. Just more evidence that the world will indeed come to an end tomorrow!


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Mike Greer said:


> I'm actually still in shock. Just more evidence that the world will indeed come to an end tomorrow!


Tomorrow might just be The Biggest Non Event since Y2K!!!

It can't happen because we are going to Las Vegas in January for CES 2013 and we already have our Airline Tickets booked!!! :lol:


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Mike Greer said:


> I'm much happier with the HR24s but they still need some work. They were faster and more responsive before the HDGUI.
> 
> I was just trying to say the hdtvfan0001 shouldn't assume that everyone is having the same experience as he is&#8230; Just as I should not assume that everyone with HR24s is having my experience.
> 
> ...


I've got six 500s and one of them does seem a bit wacky at times. Not enough for me to return it, but it does bring the subject of quality control into the conversation. The lack of quality control, I mean. I realize that absolute identical performance in any device when compared to another is unreasonable to expect, but out of the 10 or 11 HR24-500s I've had...well, I've got six that work well out of those 10 or 11 and that's not an indication of a good quality control system.

Rich


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Richierich said:


> Tomorrow might just be The Biggest Non Event since Y2K!!!
> 
> It can't happen because we are going to Las Vegas in January for CES 2013 and we already have our Airline Tickets booked!!! :lol:


Good point!


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Mike Greer said:


> I'm actually still in shock. Just more evidence that the world will indeed come to an end tomorrow!


Well at least you were more responsive...


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Rich said:


> I've got six 500s and one of them does seem a bit wacky at times. Not enough for me to return it, but it does bring the subject of quality control into the conversation. The lack of quality control, I mean. I realize that absolute identical performance in any device when compared to another is unreasonable to expect, but out of the 10 or 11 HR24-500s I've had...well, I've got six that work well out of those 10 or 11 and that's not an indication of a good quality control system.
> 
> Rich


Wow Rich! - 6 out of 10 or 11 is not a good thing! Quality control - or lack thereof - may be a big part of the problem.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Mike Greer said:


> Wow Rich! - 6 out of 10 or 11 is not a good thing! Quality control - or lack thereof - may be a big part of the problem.


Companies such as glass factories that make beer bottles would go out of business quickly with a breakage rate like that.

But those types of companies have stringent QC protocols to keep that from happening.

In order for D* to do that, they'd have to have QC people in the factories where the DVRs are made. Don't think that's gonna happen. Really have to wonder if they even have any oversight of the manufacturers.

Rich


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Mike Greer said:


> Wow Rich! - 6 out of 10 or 11 is not a good thing! Quality control - or lack thereof - may be a big part of the problem.


Not to divert the conversation (much)...but those are all HR24-500's.

I suspect it's not so much Quality Control as it is the anomalies of a unique model device. The HR24-500 was the first HD DVR with a one-off manufacturer processor inside. Based on the bumpy road for firmware stability on the -500 devices in its early days (especially compared to all those many other models with Broadcom chips inside), I can't say I'm all that surprised.

The HR24-500 isn't a bad unit at all...many have enjoyed them to date...but it has displayed unique "hiccups" at times which were not found with its Broadcom chip brethren.

All that said...it is fair and reasonable to expect all HD DVRs to basically function properly and demonstrate reasonable performance. What is considered "properly" and "reasonable" are subjective terms that are at the root of most debate on that topic.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Not to divert the conversation (much)...but those are all HR24-500's.
> 
> I suspect it's not so much Quality Control as it is the anomalies of a unique model device. The HR24-500 was the first HD DVR with a one-off manufacturer processor inside. Based on the bumpy road for firmware stability on the -500 devices in its early days (especially compared to all those many other models with Broadcom chips inside), I can't say I'm all that surprised.
> 
> ...


I like the 500s now that they've stabilized. But it's not just the 500s I'm talking about. I've really never seen any sign of a good QC program in any of the HRs. Some work well, some don't. Same model, same firmware. How would you like to pick up a cool bottle of beer after a long day and have it explode in your hand? Without a stringent QC program, that would happen more often than you'd believe.

Rich


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Rich said:


> I like the 500s now that they've stabilized. But it's not just the 500s I'm talking about. *I've really never seen any sign of a good QC program in any of the HRs. Some work well, some don't.* Same model, same firmware. How would you like to pick up a cool bottle of beer after a long day and have it explode in your hand? Without a stringent QC program, that would happen more often than you'd believe.


I'd agree that not all HD DVR boxes are created alike. Like cars (even the luxury brands), you get a bad one now and then. Remember....they make millions of units...and only a fraction of those are referenced here in threads - and many of those as much positive as not. Folks tend to speak up about problems but tend not to post "everything is going just fine thank you" as much.

In addition, it seems certain models have some history with more "issues" than others - which likely has as much to do with certain manufacturer Q/A as anything else. If the firmware's the same and the boxes the same in a series device based on specs, then the only variable is the specific manufacturer for a specific model unit.

There are some manufacturers the DirecTV no longer contracts with for hardware, and also some new ones. We'll see how the newer ones hold up with the test of time...but your point about Q/A being important is absolutely spot on.

Of note - the OP has 2 HR20-100's - quite old devices. I suspect newer units would render a better viewing experience.


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Rich said:


> I've got six 500s and one of them does seem a bit wacky at times. Not enough for me to return it, but it does bring the subject of quality control into the conversation. I realize that absolute identical performance in any device when compared to another is unreasonable to expect, but out of the 10 or 11 HR24-500s I've had...well, I've got six that work well out of those 10 or 11 and that's not an indication of a good quality control system.
> Rich


All 5 of my HR24-500s work Great and are Fast. I might just Replace my 2 HR23-700s down the road.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I'd agree that not all HD DVR boxes are created alike. Like cars (even the luxury brands), you get a bad one now and then. Remember....they make millions of units...and only a fraction of those are referenced here in threads - and many of those as much positive as not. Folks tend to speak up about problems but tend not to post "everything is going just fine thank you" as much.


Agree with that, I do.



> In addition, it seems certain models have some history with more "issues" than others - which likely has as much to do with certain manufacturer Q/A as anything else. If the firmware's the same and the boxes the same in a series device based on specs, then the only variable is the specific manufacturer for a specific model unit.
> 
> There are some manufacturers the DirecTV no longer contracts with for hardware, and also some new ones. We'll see how the newer ones hold up with the test of time...but your point about Q/A being important is absolutely spot on.


Yup, can't find anything to argue about there.



> Of note - the OP has 2 HR20-100's - quite old devices. I suspect newer units would render a better viewing experience.


Never ceases to amaze me that those things work. Never had a 100 that worked until I got the 24-100s... :lol:

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Richierich said:


> All 5 of my HR24-500s work Great and are Fast. I might just Replace my 2 HR23-700s down the road.


I'd do that sooner than later. I'd be a bit leery about the 24-100s, it's a PITA to install a 2TB drive internally. And, in some aspects, they're slower than the 500s. Simply put, the 500s are better.

Rich


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Rich said:


> I'd do that sooner than later. I'd be a bit leery about the 24-100s, it's a PITA to install a 2TB drive internally. And, in some aspects, they're slower than the 500s. Simply put, the 500s are better.
> Rich


Yes it is better to Own an HR24-500 as it is easier to Replace the Internal Hard Drive in those DVRs and that is a whole lot better than attaching an External Drive Enclosure that periodically will reboot to the Internal Drive. :nono2:


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Rich said:


> I'd do that sooner than later. I'd be a bit leery about the 24-100s, it's a PITA to install a 2TB drive internally. And, in some aspects, they're slower than the 500s. Simply put, the 500s are better.
> 
> Rich


It's different...but not hard. Or so I've heard... 

For those with *owned units *and some light experience....both the HR24-500's and HR24-100's are not difficult in terms of internal hard drive upgrades.


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> For those with *owned units *and some light experience....both the HR24-500's and HR24-100's are not difficult in terms of internal hard drive upgrades.


Replacing the Internal Hard Drive in my HR24-500s takes about 10 minutes so it is a Piece of Cake. Now I just need to buy me 2 more HR24-500s and I am Done!!!

Stick a Fork in me!!! :lol:


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Richierich said:


> Replacing the Internal Hard Drive in my HR24-500s takes about 10 minutes so it is a Piece of Cake. Now I just need to buy me 2 more HR24-500s and I am Done!!!
> 
> Stick a Fork in me!!! :lol:


There are 2 punch lines in there...but we'll just respect the rules and let those pass.


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## SomeRandomIdiot (Jan 7, 2009)

Users experience is different.

If you have, say, a stock HR20-700 and a HR20-700 with a 2TB Hard Drive the performance is dramatically different. The unit with the 2TB Hard Drive will take up to 15 minutes or so longer to boot.

If your hard drive is filled up with programming your response rates are different than if you have 90% free. If you have a 2TB with 10% free, you will really wait....wait.....wait issues.

As thus, many can report their unit is fine - while others can report all kinds of issues - because of the number of programs on the dvr and the capacity of the Hard Drive.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

SomeRandomIdiot said:


> Users experience is different.
> 
> If you have, say, a stock HR20-700 and *a HR20-700 with a 2TB Hard Drive the performance is dramatically different*. The unit with the 2TB Hard Drive will take up to 15 minutes or so longer to boot.


The specific Hard Disk Drive chosen alone could make a major difference as described....low cache, low spin rate, cheaper internal motor or electronics, etc. can impact results. Not just any 2 TB drive works well in an HD DVR. More recently, manufacturers are even modifying certain models specifically for video playback purposes.

None of those things have anything to do with the HD DVR itself, but will certainly impact performance.


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> The specific Hard Disk Drive chosen alone could make a major difference as described....low cache, low spin rate, cheaper internal motor or electronics, etc. can impact results. Not just any 2 TB drive works well in an HD DVR. More recently, manufacturers are even modifying certain models specifically for video playback purposes.
> 
> None of those things have anything to do with the HD DVR itself, but will certainly impact performance.


EXACTLY!!! I have Replaced 4 HR24-500s (Owned) Internal Drives with 2 TB WD Drives with a Larger Cache and my Performance was Enhanced.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

SomeRandomIdiot said:


> Users experience is different.
> 
> If you have, say, a stock HR20-700 and a HR20-700 with a 2TB Hard Drive the performance is dramatically different. The unit with the 2TB Hard Drive will take up to 15 minutes or so longer to boot.


Wrong. It boots up just as fast or faster.



> If your hard drive is filled up with programming your response rates are different than if you have 90% free. If you have a 2TB with 10% free, you will really wait....wait.....wait issues.


We've recommended not going over 30% free for several years now. From that point on you will *probably* see slowdowns.



> As thus, many can report their unit is fine - while others can report all kinds of issues - because of the number of programs on the dvr and the capacity of the Hard Drive.


Think that might be because some folks don't listen to those who have been down that road before?

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Richierich said:


> EXACTLY!!! I have Replaced 4 HR24-500s (Owned) Internal Drives with 2 TB WD Drives with a Larger Cache and my Performance was Enhanced.


Same thing happens when you put a 2TB in a 20-700. It just works better.

Rich


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Rich said:


> Same thing happens when you put a 2TB in a 20-700. It just works better.
> 
> Rich


Yeah - it typically comes down to using a cheapy drive and pray for the best or using a proper one with a good spin rate and larger cache size. Plopping in just any drive one finds on sale doesn't do the trick.


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Yeah - it typically comes down to using a cheapy drive and pray for the best or using a proper one with a good spin rate and larger cache size. Plopping in just any drive one finds on sale doesn't do the trick.


EXACTLY!!!

Put in a Better, Faster and More Efficient Drive with a Larger Cache and you will Achieve Better Performance!!!

It ain't Rocket Science and Lamelefty would agree!!! :lol:


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

An update on the disconnecting from network and reseting the network settings as discussed below...

Made it 12 days this time... On Christmas eve I picked up the remote hit list and started scrolling down the list. On about the 4th line down it just stopped. The video/audio kept playing in the window but it wouldn't respond to any remote buttons or front panel buttons. The clock stuck at 11:44... I just let it sit and after 5 minutes it came back to life... Clock updated to 11:49 and some of the previous button pushes were executed.

During the 5 minute nap the receiver kept recording without a hitch.

About 20 minutes later the receiver started missing remote commands... I tried to get to 'reset' in the menu but finally just got frustrated and did a red-button-reboot. Hasn't had any trouble since but if I don't restart it I'm sure the same thing will happen January 3rd or so.....

I've moved the future SL recordings over to the other two DVRs - at least the ones I care about - but I still have a bunch of stuff to watch before I attempt to get them to replace it.

Anyone have any suggestions on how I convince a CSR that I need to have the HR24 replaced? Also that it needs to be an HR24 and not anything else? I can give them the 'It just won't power up' story but I'd rather not. I guess either way once they get my flakey HR24 back they'll just turn it on, erase everything - test it for maybe 10 minutes (if that!) and call it good. Box it up and ship it out to some other poor sap that will think life is good for about 10 days or so... I wonder how many people will be tortured with this thing after I send it back?!:nono:



inkahauts said:


> Mike, I can't remember, but I hope you've tried disconnecting from the Internet for a good long while and resetting all network defaults on all your machines and leaveit disconnected and seen if the problem goes away. 4 to 5 minutes just smells like something else is going on that none of us are seeing.





Mike Greer said:


> I haven't tried recently. I can disconnect the Internet permanently. I've only used 'on-demand' a few times because it is sooo slow.
> 
> In fact first thing in the morning before anything is recording I'll shut all three DVRs down, remove the Internet connection and then boot the receivers up one at a time.
> 
> ...





inkahauts said:


> I'd also make sure you restore all network defaults.
> 
> Yeah,at this point, what's the worst that could happen?





Mike Greer said:


> I have disconnected the Internet and reset the network connections on all three of my HR24-500s. We'll see if it makes a difference in about 10 days or so!


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Mike, sign up for the Protection Plan if you don't already have it and you will get a Replacement HR24 for the HR24 that doesn't work.

And I would tell them that it is a dead unit because they will never know. It will just get sent to the Refurb Company and they will service it and send it back out to someone else.


----------



## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

It is a shame that we can not call up the "Task Manager" and see what is actually happening to the receivers.
I know that this laptop I am on uses about 1.4 gig of ram with no programs open and running. When I close everything and it is around 2 gig it is time for a restart.

It sounds like Mike's machine is doing what my laptop does in the memory and when it gets all used up it just stops because it is out of memory then.
In that light I would wonder if clearing the NVRAM once a week would keep it going.

Having said all that, you should not have to put up with doing that all the time.


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Richierich said:


> Mike, sign up for the Protection Plan if you don't already have it and you will get a Replacement HR24 for the HR24 that doesn't work.
> 
> And I would tell them that it is a dead unit because they will never know. It will just get sent to the Refurb Company and they will service it and send it back out to someone else.


Hey Richierich - What would the protection plan get me over not having it?

Telling them it is dead is likely the only way I guess...

That's the killer is that you know the refurb company is going to give it a clean bill of health and send it back out.... There is really no chance that they test the receivers for 10 or 11 days....

I feel the pain now that the next victim will feel shortly!:lol:


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

jimmie57 said:


> It is a shame that we can not call up the "Task Manager" and see what is actually happening to the receivers.
> I know that this laptop I am on uses about 1.4 gig of ram with no programs open and running. When I close everything and it is around 2 gig it is time for a restart.
> 
> It sounds like Mike's machine is doing what my laptop does in the memory and when it gets all used up it just stops because it is out of memory then.
> ...


Likely something like that but what I don't understand is why just this particular HR24-500? I have two others - one has had the problem but only twice in the last 4 or 5 months. The other has never stopped responding completely and I don't restart it on a regular basis. You would think a memory leak or other issue like that would show up on all of the HR24-500 running the same firmware. This particular HR24-500 is one of the early ones and the one I got first.... Maybe there is a hardware difference that is the root of the trouble...

I should have mentioned that I did go to channel 1 for a minute or two after it came back to life but then after the remote started flaking out again I went ahead with a RBR.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Mike Greer said:


> An update on the disconnecting from network and reseting the network settings as discussed below...
> 
> Made it 12 days this time... On Christmas eve I picked up the remote hit list and started scrolling down the list. On about the 4th line down it just stopped. The video/audio kept playing in the window but it wouldn't respond to any remote buttons or front panel buttons. The clock stuck at 11:44... I just let it sit and after 5 minutes it came back to life... Clock updated to 11:49 and some of the previous button pushes were executed.
> 
> ...


They are supposed to give you a 24 for a 24. If they don't, get on the phone. Tell the truth, the HR doesn't respond to remote commands and the front panel does the same thing. The truth usually wins out. Trick is to get away from those NEW CSRs and get to a department like Retention, where they can do something besides telling you to reboot the thing.

Rich


----------



## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

Mike:
It could have a bad memory chip in it or similar item with a problem.

I am not sure the going to channel 1 for 30 seconds actually clears the memory. I have tried this a few times and it appears to me that doing the button press sequence does more good. However, mine don't have problems that cause a lot of problems so it is very difficult for me to say which is better.


I reset this HR23 after the new software was loaded on 12-12 and have not done anything to it since. No resets, clearing memory, etc.

We had a monitor at work years ago that gave a lot of problems and it was intermittent.
The secretary was going to water her flower one day. I set the flower on top of the monitor and she watered it. The flower pot had a hole in the bottom and several drops of water dropped into the monitor. Whoops, had to be replaced.
Don't do that to your receiver. It is dangerous to put water onto electronics for sure.
If somebody from DTV would just come read this thread and had a sense of decency they would send you another HR24.


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Mike Greer said:


> Hey Richierich - What would the protection plan get me over not having it?


With the Protection Plan they are obligated to Replace your HR24 with another HR24.

However, I have also heard that HR24s are Always Replaced with another HR24. It could be another Model such as an HR24-500 getting Replaced with an HR24-100 for instance.


----------



## luckydob (Oct 2, 2006)

"hdtvfan0001" said:


> Uh...sure...Ok.
> 
> Since multiple HD DVRs here and HD receivers simply don't have any significant impact or issues as you described for the end user experience in this household...and only a fraction of time is spent "directing" our HDTVs for scheduling and programming guide use...it's unfortunate your older device seem to have a problem.
> 
> That's not the case with HR24's or newer, which you referenced as well. As others have repeatedly point out...running jet fuel in an older car doesn't usually make it run faster. The same holds true for firmware.


Then why does Directv insist on putting the jet fuel in the old car? Just asking...


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

"Richierich" said:


> With the Protection Plan they are obligated to Replace your HR24 with another HR24.
> 
> However, I have also heard that HR24s are Always Replaced with another HR24. It could be another Model such as an HR24-500 getting Replaced with an HR24-100 for instance.


There was recently someone here that had an HR24 replaced with an older model.


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Rich said:


> They are supposed to give you a 24 for a 24. If they don't, get on the phone. Tell the truth, the HR doesn't respond to remote commands and the front panel does the same thing. The truth usually wins out. Trick is to get away from those NEW CSRs and get to a department like Retention, where they can do something besides telling you to reboot the thing.
> 
> Rich





Richierich said:


> With the Protection Plan they are obligated to Replace your HR24 with another HR24.
> 
> However, I have also heard that HR24s are Always Replaced with another HR24. It could be another Model such as an HR24-500 getting Replaced with an HR24-100 for instance.





dpeters11 said:


> There was recently someone here that had an HR24 replaced with an older model.


Yikes - once we watch the recordings on that HR24 I'll call and hopefully they'll agree to replace it... If they send me anything other than an HR24 you all won't have to deal with me anymore! That will be the end of our relationship with DirecTV. I paid $600 to be rid of the old crap just so I could get the remotes to respond! I had to pay to fix their problem once and I won't be doing it again.


----------



## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

dpeters11 said:


> There was recently someone here that had an HR24 replaced with an older model.


That was posted by Kiseika on the Downgraded Replacement Receiver thread. His HR24-100 was replaced with a HR23-700. He reported that after contacting DirecTV they were sending him another HR24.


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## pappasbike (Sep 19, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> Yikes - once we watch the recordings on that HR24 I'll call and hopefully they'll agree to replace it... If they send me anything other than an HR24 you all won't have to deal with me anymore! That will be the end of our relationship with DirecTV. I paid $600 to be rid of the old crap just so I could get the remotes to respond! I had to pay to fix their problem once and I won't be doing it again.


I have to agree with you. I've had two HR20s and two HR21s. One of the 21s has been replaced with a 34 which has been a huge improvement. I've read how much better the 24s are as well. If I had to have another receiver replaced with anything but a 24 or 34 I'd be going to Dish or Comcast immediately. They really should be destroying those older ones as they come in.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

dpeters11 said:


> There was recently someone here that had an HR24 replaced with an older model.


Yup, I know that happens. That's why I've always recommended calling the installation contractor the night before or before they get the trucks loaded. Also why I've always recommended morning "windows", the earlier the better. I think the only way you can get something else for a 24 is if there is nothing but 21s on the trucks or you allow D* to mail them to you. As many 24s as I have returned, I've always gotten a 24 back. Can't speak for other parts of the country.

Rich


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

pappasbike said:


> They really should be destroying those older ones as they come in.


I agree and I have stated that many times in the past. Directv do the Right Thing and get rid of those underachieving DVRs and make your Customers Happy!!!


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## jahgreen (Dec 15, 2006)

My experience is at both ends of the spectrum.

Our HR20-700 has always been very responsive. Unfortunately, it's getting long in the tooth.

The HR21-100 is ridiculously UNresponsive. It takes up 5 minutes to respond to input from the remote. The same is true of the front panel controls. If it had been my first DirecTV box, I would have been long gone.


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Yes there is a Big Difference in the Responsiveness of an HR20 over an HR21 or HR23.

Just glad I have 5 HR24-500s and down the road I will Replace my 2 HR23-700s with HR24s or an HR34 with a Client.


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

I just received a "Come Back to Dish" promo in the mail today. I would normally not have even opened the thing but today... Hmmm... Now I'm beginning to think it may just be easier to try Dish Network again for a couple of years.... Maybe that will give DirecTV time to work on their firmware. It at least has me looking into the Dish forums here to see what kind of trouble people are having with Dish Network.


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Mike, you just need to get Better Equipment. 

I and many other of my friends here at DBSTALK have almost Zero Problems with our DVRs so unless you are just stuborn and enjoy your problems quit *****ing and Upgrade Your Equipment as I have stated to you before.

I have had problems with 2 of my DVRs and got them replaced and since then I am happy and have No Reason To *****!!!

If you don't want to Replace your DVR which is a lot simpler than switching to Dish then Good Luck and I will see you when you RETURN to DIRECTV!!!


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Richierich said:


> Mike, you just need to get Better Equipment.
> 
> I and many other of my friends here at DBSTALK have almost Zero Problems with our DVRs so unless you are just stuborn and enjoy your problems quit *****ing and Upgrade Your Equipment as I have stated to you before.
> 
> ...


I paid $600 to 'upgrade' my equipment and it was mostly fine until the HDGUI update. Whatever comes out next may be fine - at least until they 'update' something and start the cycle over again. Just a little venting....

By 'upgrade' do you mean get an HR34? I see way to many problems with those - even after a year... No thanks there.

I may not switch - At this point maybe it is time to quit over-paying for nothing to watch.

It is just TV! Not like we 'need' it and its high-price and troubles....

I only posted because I received the 'come back' offer and I don't really want to have to play csr-roulette or flat out lie to get the most troublesome HR24 replaced.... And hope they don't down-grade me to an HR22 POS again. I guess I could let that be the deciding factor...

It's just getting to the point that pay-tv is more trouble than it's worth.....


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

What I am saying is with the Protection Plan you are Guaranteed to have an HR24 Replaced with another HR24 (might be a different Model but it will be an HR24).

Or you can go thru the Hassle of switching to another Provider such as Dish and then having to replace dishes and cabling and that to me just is not worth it when you could just simply do as I and others have suggested and tell Directv you want another Replacement DVR!!! End Of Story!!!


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Richierich said:


> What I am saying is with the Protection Plan you are Guaranteed to have an HR24 Replaced with another HR24 (might be a different Model but it will be an HR24).


The Protection Plan literally makes no such guarantees.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

harsh said:


> The Protection Plan literally makes no such guarantees.


Here again....a Dish subscriber chimes in with misinformation. 

For *owned* hardware...yes...the same model or newer is provided as replacement hardware. We've actually seen a number of customers experience and post on that very experience.


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## wrj (Nov 23, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> By 'upgrade' do you mean get an HR34? I see way to many problems with those - even after a year... No thanks there.
> .....


Here's my thoughts for what's it worth...

I suspect most forums are biased to the "problems side" of the equation. If things are working great, you may not be inclined to post that. However, if you have problems, you're always looking for help. My neighbor has the Hopper and said he's ready to throw it out into the street. But I bet there are a lot of happy Hopper and HR34 users. That's not saying DTV doesn't have some work to do. They drive me crazy at times with their changes but I wonder if the Dish design team is any better.

But I'll agree with one thought, my DTV receivers appear slow compared to what I have seen on Dish. DTV has to focus on resolving this issue and quickly.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

wrj said:


> *Here's my thoughts for what's it worth*...
> 
> I suspect most forums are biased to the "problems side" of the equation. If things are working great, you may not be inclined to post that. However, if you have problems, you're always looking for help. My neighbor has the Hopper and said he's ready to throw it out into the street. But I bet there are a lot of happy Hopper and HR34 users. That's not saying DTV doesn't have some work to do. They drive me crazy at times with their changes but I wonder if the Dish design team is any better.


That's actually a great post. :up:


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Here again....a Dish subscriber chimes in with misinformation.
> 
> For *owned* hardware...yes...the same model or newer is provided as replacement hardware. We've actually seen a number of customers experience and post on that very experience.


Mine are not owned - so I guess that doesn't apply to me.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> That's actually a great post. :up:


That is a great post! Including the line you didn't quote!:lol:

I've been reading the Dish forums and they are also full of complaints.....

Looks like we need the 'speed' of Dish Network Engineers with the 'features' of DirecTV engineers.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Mike Greer said:


> That is a great post! Including the line you didn't quote!:lol:
> 
> I've been reading the Dish forums and they are also full of complaints.....
> 
> Looks like we need the 'speed' of Dish Network Engineers with the 'features' of DirecTV engineers.


Not so sure about that Mike.

In all honesty, my 3 HD DVRs that are all HR24 or newer models here all perform quite fast.

That said, there have been times in the past where this was not the case when the firmware was maturing and/or they added functionality. There's also little doubt that the User Interface is not "peaked" yet on all HD DVR models. Speed improvements still need to happen so this is more uniform across all model devices.

At times in the past having read some of your posts in the past, I also wondered if they had some "special" HD DVRs just made especially for you. 

But seriously...

There are a number of things that impact performance as others have pointed out - beyond just a firmware version:

1) How does someone have their DVR devices configured? (There are numerous things that impact performance - just one example - if you select all channels, Channels I get, or custom channels you identify - these changes the scope of search within the favorites setting, and may impact guide performance somewhat. There are also literally thousands of potential setting combinations, so of which are known to slow things down in the UI. I've seen more people shoot themselves in the foot on settings than almost any other item when it comes to performance.)

2) Is someone using the "stock" hard drive in the device, an eSata setup, or something else (for owned hardware)? We've seen various posts where people indicate slow WHDS/MRV viewing, only to learn later those same folks installed cheap hard drives w/slow read-write speeds and small memory caches. These slow down the viewing experience. There's a new generation of hardware for the past 12-18 months for HDD's specifically designed for HD DVRs, and these are found in the newer DirecTV models - these make a difference.

3) DECA/Internet connections - routers, DECA connections, and network speed. As more and more of the viewer experience is "connected" - the dependence on adequate network speed grows. The DECA infrastructure helps a great deal in this regard. Also, router and network speed impact things to a degree as well.

Last but not least...as you also said...it's important to note that folks can read just as many posts in the Dish threads about performance and hardware as in the DirecTV threads - sometimes more of them. I contend that not all "boxes" are identical in build quality. That's true for almost any technology. If someone gets a "bad one", they should insist on a replacement.

Here's to wishing you improved results soon... :goodjob:


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## sregener (Apr 17, 2012)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Last but not least...as you also said...it's important to note that folks can read just as many posts in the Dish threads about performance and hardware as in the DirecTV threads - sometimes more of them. I contend that not all "boxes" are identical in build quality. That's true for almost any technology. If someone gets a "bad one", they should insist on a replacement.


As a former DirecTV customer who "enjoyed" a 2-year contract stuck with an HR22-100, I check back in occasionally to see if my reasons for leaving DirecTV have been resolved. Threads like this convince me that they have not.

I've been pretty vocal about my problems with the Hopper. But most of those problems are minor, and they have been resolved within a week or so with a new firmware update. Yes, that's right - no living for months with a non-responsive unit and promises that "the next firmware release will fix this problem." I've gotten direct contact from Dish team members to help me with my issues that I've posted on DBSTalk, and all those issues have been resolved in a timely manner.

I know some of you are going to complain, "What's a Dish customer doing reading DirecTV forums?" And to be honest, in some ways, I miss DirecTV. I think DirecTV has slightly better HD picture quality. I like that DirecTV's OTA tuner has 2 tuners instead of one. And I like the fact that if you play "catchup" with a program while it's being recorded, the DVR remembers where you stopped when you come back later (there's a workaround for that issue, but it's one I sometimes forget until it's too late.) And DirecTV hits my email inbox at least once a day with promises to "make it right" if I'll just come back.

The grass isn't greener over at Dish, but it's a different shade of green, and some people will prefer one shade over the other.


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## wrj (Nov 23, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> There are a number of things that impact performance as others have pointed out - beyond just a firmware version:
> 
> 1) How does someone have their DVR devices configured? (There are numerous things that impact performance - just one example - if you select all channels, Channels I get, or custom channels you identify - these changes the scope of search within the favorites setting, and may impact guide performance somewhat. There are also literally thousands of potential setting combinations, so of which are known to slow things down in the UI. I've seen more people shoot themselves in the foot on settings than almost any other item when it comes to performance.)


Very Interesting. I didn't know that.

hdtvfan0001--Are the configurations which impactspeed documented aware?


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

sregener said:


> As a former DirecTV customer who "enjoyed" a 2-year contract stuck with an HR22-100, I check back in occasionally to see if my reasons for leaving DirecTV have been resolved. Threads like this convince me that they have not.


I suspect you'd find a much better experience with the newer HD DVRs in the DirecTV suite than the HR22. Things have advanced on several fronts.

That's not to say everything is perfect, but likely improved.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Here again....a Dish subscriber chimes in with misinformation.


It seems like much (if not most) of the misinformation regarding DIRECTV comes from DIRECTV subscribers so I'm not surprised by your retort.

For your edification, here is the pertinent text of the DIRECTV Protection Plan terms:


PP (May 2010) said:


> Equipment Replacement and Repair: At our option, we may repair or replace a remote control or receiver by utilizing shipping and delivery services at our expense. If we determine a replacement receiver is required, we will ship a new or refurbished unit with comparable features to the location where you receive DIRECTV programming. We will also provide for return shipping of the defective unit. Should you fail to return the defective unit, charges for the unreturned unit will apply.


There is literally no mention of model numbers in the entire document.

What DIRECTV does (or doesn't do) in practice is a whole other can of worms but guaranteeing an HR24 replaces an HR24 is not something the Protection Plan does.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

wrj said:


> hdtvfan0001--Are the configurations which impact speed documented aware?


Not really...since the User Interface and other firmware changes are made...they can change as well. But some are somewhat intuitive.

For example...if you ask the HD DVR to look up your guide containing "favorites" containing a custom (and smaller) list that doesn't include all the channels...it's less work for the DVR to load and present them on the screen.

Also, if you select "native" for the HD resolution instead of a pre-assigned setting...then then DVR doesn't need to adjust for channel-specific-settings when you happen to change channels.

Since both of those are user configuration preferences...it's up to the end user how they want those things set up.

The key point is that configuration choices can impact the viewing experience.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

jahgreen said:


> My experience is at both ends of the spectrum.
> 
> Our HR20-700 has always been very responsive. Unfortunately, it's getting long in the tooth.
> 
> The HR21-100 is ridiculously UNresponsive. It takes up 5 minutes to respond to input from the remote. The same is true of the front panel controls. If it had been my first DirecTV box, I would have been long gone.


I was playing with one of my three 20-700s yesterday and it's still as responsive as it always was. The problem you'll probably see with the 20-700 will be the internal drive's demise. Simply stick an eSATA on it and it will probably go right back to being responsive.

The 21-100 is one of the worst of the HRs, certainly the worst of the 21 series. Why not step up to a 24? Even the 24-100 works well and I swore years ago that I would never have another -100 in my home. I've got 3 of them now and I'm amazed at how well they perform.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Mike Greer said:


> I just received a "Come Back to Dish" promo in the mail today. I would normally not have even opened the thing but today... Hmmm... Now I'm beginning to think it may just be easier to try Dish Network again for a couple of years.... Maybe that will give DirecTV time to work on their firmware. It at least has me looking into the Dish forums here to see what kind of trouble people are having with Dish Network.


Don't leave us Mike! Please!

Rich


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## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

wrj said:


> Here's my thoughts for what's it worth...
> 
> I suspect most forums are biased to the "problems side" of the equation. If things are working great, you may not be inclined to post that. However, if you have problems, you're always looking for help. My neighbor has the Hopper and said he's ready to throw it out into the street. But I bet there are a lot of happy Hopper and HR34 users. That's not saying DTV doesn't have some work to do. They drive me crazy at times with their changes but I wonder if the Dish design team is any better.
> 
> But I'll agree with one thought, my DTV receivers appear slow compared to what I have seen on Dish. DTV has to focus on resolving this issue and quickly.


Forums may skew a little towards the problem side (~10-15% more), but some people in this forum who don't have problems tend to assume that the only people who have problems are people who post in this forum. The truth isn't even really in the middle -- a lot of people are having problems who don't post here. Usually in the CSR meetings I went to (for another company) I could tell what they're going to list as the hot button issues if any just by viewing a few forums ahead of time. If it's a hot topic in Internet forums then the CSRs would always complain they have been "swamped with tons of calls".

Also note there are many lurkers here who come here just to make sure it's not just them, but they don't bother to post anything because it won't help.

I have five friends who have D*, and every single one of them complains about the sluggishness of the receivers and DVRs, and none of them knew this forum existed until I told them. All have problems very similar to mine or Mike Greer's, and are looking to jump ship but are scared of jumping from the frying pan into the fire. All I can tell them is that the FIOS 7232 and TWC Cisco DVRs have no speed problems like D* has. Other issues, certainly, but at least you can always control the box.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

harsh said:


> The Protection Plan literally makes no such guarantees.


They have told me (well, the CMG has told me, I can't take the NEW CSRs that do the PP now) that every effort will be made to provide a PP member with a 24 when a 24 goes bad. Retention has told me the same thing. And, every time I've had a 24 go bad, I've gotten a 24 as a replacement.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Mike Greer said:


> Mine are not owned - so I guess that doesn't apply to me.


You'll still get a 24 as a replacement, I think.

Rich


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)




----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Not so sure about that Mike.
> 
> In all honesty, my 3 HD DVRs that are all HR24 or newer models here all perform quite fast.
> 
> ...


In all honesty, your 3 HD DVRs that are all HR24 or newer models all perform quite fast but not as fast as Dish Network DVRs do.

I do believe they are 'fast enough' for you but I would prefer to the response of the Dish Network receivers (including the 5 or 6 year old ones) over the sometimes quick/sometimes not HR24.

I'm happy that you're happy with the speed of yours but there are few people that would/could argue that they are as fast as Dish Network receivers.... Ever...

I honestly don't think there is much if any difference in performance between my two working HR24s than your HR24s all settings being the same. I'm not including my 10 days to restart HR24....

I have seen somewhere around 30 HR receivers at friends, retail stores and even a couple of dealers that have both DirecTV and Dish equipment side-by-side. I have never seen ANY DirecTV DVR as fast as ANY Dish Network DVR period. My HR24-500s came close, in fact, close enough to Dish Network speed. That is until the HD GUI 'upgrade'. Navigation and response is now back to the sometimes ok - sometimes not ok with my two working HR24s... But still much better than the complete trash I had with the HR22s....

Thanks for wishing me improved results soon.... I'm sure they will eventually figure out their problems but sadly - they'll do another 'upgrade' and many of the problems we have been cycling through will once again come back. Just like the Jump-To-The-End problem when using 30 second skip/slip has started creeping back in now.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> At times in the past having read some of your posts in the past, I also wondered if they had some "special" HD DVRs just made especially for you.


That was funny! I've wondered about the same thing. I believe I even had something like that done to me in my first or second year. Over a 2 or 3 week period, I had ~ 15 HR20-100s delivered to my home to replace a 20-700 that had gone bad. Several were in pieces when they arrived and none worked. I'm not paranoid by nature, but I think someone said, "Keep sending that PITA 20-100s, we'll teach him a lesson".

Rich


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

sregener said:


> As a former DirecTV customer who "enjoyed" a 2-year contract stuck with an HR22-100, I check back in occasionally to see if my reasons for leaving DirecTV have been resolved. Threads like this convince me that they have not.
> 
> I've been pretty vocal about my problems with the Hopper. But most of those problems are minor, and they have been resolved within a week or so with a new firmware update. Yes, that's right - no living for months with a non-responsive unit and promises that "the next firmware release will fix this problem." I've gotten direct contact from Dish team members to help me with my issues that I've posted on DBSTalk, and all those issues have been resolved in a timely manner.
> 
> ...


Agreed! I also miss having the remote RF and IR simultaneously. And working caller id too!


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Rich said:


> They have told me...that every effort will be made to provide a PP member with a 24 when a 24 goes bad. Retention has told me the same thing. And, every time I've had a 24 go bad, I've gotten a 24 as a replacement.
> 
> Rich


Seems your firsthand experience differs from a Dish poster claiming differently based on their "reading about it" knowledge.

Yours is not the first confirming this either.

Thanks for sharing some facts.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I suspect you'd find a much better experience with the newer HD DVRs in the DirecTV suite than the HR22. Things have advanced on several fronts.
> 
> That's not to say everything is perfect, but likely improved.


Once again we agree! The HR24s are much improved over the HR22.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

veryoldschool said:


>


Post of the year!

!rolling!rolling!rolling


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

sregener said:


> As a former DirecTV customer who "enjoyed" a 2-year contract stuck with an HR22-100, I check back in occasionally to see if my reasons for leaving DirecTV have been resolved. Threads like this convince me that they have not.
> 
> I've been pretty vocal about my problems with the Hopper. But most of those problems are minor, and they have been resolved within a week or so with a new firmware update. Yes, that's right - no living for months with a non-responsive unit and promises that "the next firmware release will fix this problem." I've gotten direct contact from Dish team members to help me with my issues that I've posted on DBSTalk, and all those issues have been resolved in a timely manner.
> 
> ...


Why did you put up with a 22 for that long? I had one that worked splendidly for a week and then lost its mind. I quickly got a replacement for it and vowed to never take a 22 again. They are not all the same, the 24s work quite well and are as fast as any DVR I've ever had.

Very good post, tho! Always good to see someone tell the truth.

Rich


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Not really...since the User Interface and other firmware changes are made...they can change as well. But some are somewhat intuitive.
> 
> For example...if you ask the HD DVR to look up your guide containing "favorites" containing a custom (and smaller) list that doesn't include all the channels...it's less work for the DVR to load and present them on the screen.
> 
> ...


Creating smaller customs guides does in fact speed things up...

The native thing is actually the other way around. If you select 'native' it will make channel changes that include resolution changes take much longer. Maybe worth the wait if your TV does better up-scaling than the HR does...


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Rich said:


> Don't leave us Mike! Please!
> 
> Rich


What would you guys do without me!?:lol:


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Mike Greer said:


> Creating smaller customs guides does in fact speed things up...
> 
> The native thing is actually the other way around. If you select 'native' it will make channel changes that include resolution changes take much longer. Maybe worth the wait if your TV does better up-scaling than the HR does...


Right on both counts.


Mike Greer said:


> What would you guys do without me!?:lol:


You know we love ya! 

Even better...we love a happy Mike.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Rich said:


> They have told me (well, the CMG has told me, I can't take the NEW CSRs that do the PP now) that every effort will be made to provide a PP member with a 24 when a 24 goes bad. Retention has told me the same thing. And, every time I've had a 24 go bad, I've gotten a 24 as a replacement.
> 
> Rich





Rich said:


> You'll still get a 24 as a replacement, I think.
> 
> Rich


Thanks Rich - I hope so!


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

veryoldschool said:


>





hdtvfan0001 said:


> Post of the year!
> 
> !rolling!rolling!rolling


I have a black collar - other than that I agree!


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Mike Greer said:


> I have a black collar - other than that I agree!


I suspect that was not a reference to any post coming from you.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Seems your firsthand experience differs from a Dish poster claiming differently based on their "reading about it" knowledge.
> 
> Yours is not the first confirming this either.
> 
> Thanks for sharing some facts.


I don't recall ever being lied to by anyone at the CMG. I can't say that about other D* CSRs, but when one does, I go straight to Retention and get it resolved to my satisfaction. Persistence and patience and politeness always seems to work.

Rich


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I suspect that was not a reference to any post coming from you.


It wasn't, but just to the nature of this thread.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

veryoldschool said:


> It wasn't, but just to the nature of this thread.


Very much agree there! But I think it is better to keep the tail chasing and running in circles in this thread rather than multiple threads. Sometimes I forget which round I'm in...


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Mike Greer said:


> What would you guys do without me!?:lol:


Miss your ungodly patience? Seriously, I'm sure most who know you would agree with me, you would be missed.

Rich


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

veryoldschool said:


> It wasn't, but just to the nature of this thread.





veryoldschool said:


>


I had no problem whatsoever imagining that as a Beagle.


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Right on both counts.
> 
> You know we love ya!
> 
> Even better...we love a happy Mike.


I think you may have me confused with someone else!:lol:


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Rich said:


> Miss your ungodly patience? Seriously, I'm sure most who know you would agree with me, you would be missed.
> 
> Rich


I'm not so sure about that but thanks anyway!


----------



## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

You and a small handful of people are convinced that the HD guide kiboshed just about everything speed wise. Yet thousands of others here aren't of the same opinion. Perhaps something else is tinting your glasses??


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Rich said:


> They have told me (well, the CMG has told me, I can't take the NEW CSRs that do the PP now) that every effort will be made to provide a PP member with a 24 when a 24 goes bad. Retention has told me the same thing. And, every time I've had a 24 go bad, I've gotten a 24 as a replacement.
> Rich


That is what I have heard from more than one Directv Employee!!! Directv Replaces HR24s with another HR24 Model which may not be the exact same Model but it Will be an HR24.


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## sregener (Apr 17, 2012)

Rich said:


> Why did you put up with a 22 for that long?


Well, there were a couple of reasons. First, the problems came and went with firmware releases. At times, it was okay (not great, but survivable.) At times, it was awful (not survivable, not tolerable, quite frankly maddening.) And investigating forums told me a few things:

1) My problems were not hardware related, but firmware related. And there was always the promise of the "next" firmware release being the one that was going to fix it. I waited with baited breath for the HD GUI, in hopes it would finally make the DVR respond, but alas it only made things worse.

2) I was under contract, and DirecTV had no reason to offer to replace a functioning DVR.

3) DirecTV could not and would not guarantee me a specific model number (even series) if I asked for a replacement. They could guarantee me that, even if I got another HR22-100, I would be under a new 24-month commitment. Even customer retention told me as much.

4) The only way to get a choice in receiver model would be to buy one over the Internet. I looked seriously at paying $200 for an HR24. But after the HD GUI came out, even HR24 owners complained about slow response at times, and it left me feeling like I was playing roulette.

In the end, I decided that switching to Dish would accomplish several things. First, it gave me two channels I watched in HD, which DirecTV didn't carry in HD at the time. Second, it would save me about $240 in programming costs during the promotional period. Third, it would save me that $200 purchase price on a receiver that might or might not resolve my issues.

$440 was too much to spend on a gamble. I switched to Dish and have been very satisfied with my decision, minus a few minor quibbles.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Rich said:


> They have told me (well, the CMG has told me, I can't take the NEW CSRs that do the PP now) that every effort will be made to provide a PP member with a 24 when a 24 goes bad. Retention has told me the same thing. And, every time I've had a 24 go bad, I've gotten a 24 as a replacement.
> 
> Rich


Well, maybe you don't talk to DIRECTV® CSR's as often as harsh does?? :eek2:


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Mike Greer said:


> I'm not so sure about that but thanks anyway!


I would do whatever it takes to replace your defective DVR with an HR24 (even if you had to buy one yourself on Ebay) and be done with it.

I couldn't imagine replacing all of my Directv Equipment with Dish Equipment even if it was Free as it would be an enormous hassle.

Don't tell Directv but I am in Bed with them for Life!!! :lol:


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## wrj (Nov 23, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> I have seen somewhere around 30 HR receivers at friends, retail stores and even a couple of dealers that have both DirecTV and Dish equipment side-by-side. I have never seen ANY DirecTV DVR as fast as ANY Dish Network DVR period. My HR24-500s came close, in fact, close enough to Dish Network speed. That is until the HD GUI 'upgrade'. Navigation and response is now back to the sometimes ok - sometimes not ok with my two working HR24s... But still much better than the complete trash I had with the HR22s....


After reading about all the speed issues and that the Dish receiver is faster, my question is does DTV know the problem with their receivers? Or does DTV even consider this a problem? I would hope they have been comparing the Dish systems side-by-side with their own and trying to overcome any competitive disadvantages. 
If the HDGUI is a major source of the slow response, I would be willing to go back. However, I think I remember my HR22 was slow before the GUI was changed.
I just hope DTV knows slow response is an issue with its users and is intent on doing something about it.


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## wrj (Nov 23, 2006)

Rich said:


> Why did you put up with a 22 for that long? Rich


My wife has had her HR21 for over 4 years and there is no way she'll let me change it out HR 24 or not. She feels comfortable with her 21 and has it programmed the way she likes it.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Laxguy said:


> You and a small handful of people are convinced that the HD guide kiboshed just about everything speed wise. Yet thousands of others here aren't of the same opinion. Perhaps something else is tinting your glasses??


I assume you are referring to my post? I wouldn't say 'kyboshed just about everything speed wise' but it knock it down noticeably - to me at least. There are hundreds of thousands using HR21s,22s and 23s that don't notice how painfully slow their DVRs. I wouldn't expect them to notice the decrease in speed that came with the HD GUI either.

It is kind of like before the HR24 came out - some said their HR20/21/22/23s were not 'slow' and then many of them were praising the speed increase of the HR24. What gives there? I suspect they either had 'tinting glasses' or they just didn't know what they were missing.... On the other hand - I do know what I'm missing!


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Richierich said:


> I would do whatever it takes to replace your defective DVR with an HR24 (even if you had to buy one yourself on Ebay) and be done with it.
> 
> I couldn't imagine replacing all of my Directv Equipment with Dish Equipment even if it was Free as it would be an enormous hassle.
> 
> Don't tell Directv but I am in Bed with them for Life!!! :lol:


Ha! I paid for 3 HR24s to be rid of the slowness but got at least some of that slowness back with the HD GUI. Still much better on the HR24 than my old HR22s were.

I will be having them replace my most troubled HR24 as soon as we watch all the recordings on it.. That may take another month....

My house is wired in such a way that I could switch to Dish with very little trouble - not that I want to switch.

I'm pretty sure DirecTV knows you share a bed with them!:lol:


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## sregener (Apr 17, 2012)

wrj said:


> I just hope DTV knows slow response is an issue with its users and is intent on doing something about it.


DirecTV knows. I told them. Others have told them. I can only conclude that either they don't care, or they are unable to fix the problem. Given the length of time they've had to solve this issue - over two years - I'm leaning heavily towards the former.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

wrj said:


> After reading about all the speed issues and that the Dish receiver is faster, my question is does DTV know the problem with their receivers? Or does DTV even consider this a problem? I would hope they have been comparing the Dish systems side-by-side with their own and trying to overcome any competitive disadvantages.
> If the HDGUI is a major source of the slow response, I would be willing to go back. However, I think I remember my HR22 was slow before the GUI was changed.
> I just hope DTV knows slow response is an issue with its users and is intent on doing something about it.


I'm sure that DirecTV management knows that they have issues but I seriously doubt that it is much of a priority. If their typical customers started switching providers or at least complaining about it that would be a different story. Sadly, they seem to have a pretty low bar when it comes to the speed of their DVRs.

Look at the HR34 - most of the posts I've read seem to indicate that the HR34 is 'a little slower' than the HR24. That seems to indicate they plan on keeping the performance bar pretty low. If they planned on a change you'd expect it to be with their newest DVR.

Sadly - the HDGUI wasn't optional - not sure why they bothered with it but you can't go back. The sad thing is it didn't really give us anything but it did seem to slow things down (at least on the HR24) and messed up the SD outputs....


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

sregener said:


> DirecTV knows. I told them. Others have told them. I can only conclude that either they don't care, or they are unable to fix the problem. Given the length of time they've had to solve this issue - over two years - I'm leaning heavily towards the former.


I agree to a point. I'm not sure that they 'don't care'. I'm sure they'd rather have DVRs that are as fast as Dish Networks but don't consider it a priority and aren't willing to spend what it would take to resolve the troubles.

It is more like 6 years - when the HR20 came out it was slower than Dish Network DVRs way back then.....


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Mike Greer said:


> I'm pretty sure DirecTV knows you share a bed with them!:lol:


Yes, Directv probably does each month when they send me my Bill and receive my check.

I guess all Addictions Cost A Lot of Money!!! :lol:


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Mike Greer said:


> I'm sure they'd rather have DVRs that are as fast as Dish Networks but don't consider it a priority and aren't willing to spend what it would take to resolve the troubles.


This is my take on it also.

They care but not enough to Replace all Legacy HR2X DVRs with HR24s or HR34s so they are just going to ride it out while figuring they will have some Churn but not enough to make that big a difference in their Revenue Stream.


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## SomeRandomIdiot (Jan 7, 2009)

Rich said:


> Wrong. It boots up just as fast or faster.


I have 2 here - 1 HR20-700 stock and one with the Holy Grail WD 2TB Hard Drive.

You care to put a wager on that statement, as apparently the HR20 does a Hard Drive test on boot up.

Furthermore, the more programs on your unit, the more processing it takes to sort when you hit the playlist. The older HR2x were not meant to perform this type of processing needed with large multiterrabyte drives and thus this slows down response a great deal.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Laxguy said:


> You and a small handful of people are convinced that the HD guide kiboshed just about everything speed wise. Yet thousands of others here aren't of the same opinion. Perhaps something else is tinting your glasses??


Who's "You"? I think it did us more harm than good. When it's finally fixed, and I'm sure it will be, it will be nice to go back to the same speed we had with the SD Guide. I don't think it slowed down any of my HRs as far as watching programs, but when you get to certain spots, like deleting 100 episodes, it does take much longer than the SD Guide did. I get to my Setting easily on every one of my HRs. I don't channel surf because I rarely watch live TV, so I don't care how long it takes to change channels.

What we have in this thread is a failure to communicate. For instance, which part of your DVR experience is actually "slow"? I don't see any slowness in any of my HRs when using them to view content. The only real slowness I see is what I mentioned above.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

sregener said:


> Well, there were a couple of reasons. First, the problems came and went with firmware releases. At times, it was okay (not great, but survivable.) At times, it was awful (not survivable, not tolerable, quite frankly maddening.) And investigating forums told me a few things:
> 
> 1) My problems were not hardware related, but firmware related. And there was always the promise of the "next" firmware release being the one that was going to fix it. I waited with baited breath for the HD GUI, in hopes it would finally make the DVR respond, but alas it only made things worse.
> 
> ...


Good post. I would have found a way to get rid of that 22. Had you PM'd me, I would have shared that knowledge with you. To judge D*'s service on that 22 is wrong, but I understand how you feel.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Laxguy said:


> Well, maybe you don't talk to DIRECTV® CSR's as often as harsh does?? :eek2:


I don't talk to any D* CSRs, except for the ACT, if I can avoid it. If I need something fixed, I come here second. My first act is a PM to the Man.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

SomeRandomIdiot said:


> I have 2 here - 1 HR20-700 stock and one with the Holy Grail WD 2TB Hard Drive.
> 
> You care to put a wager on that statement, as apparently the HR20 does a Hard Drive test on boot up.


Having had more 20-700s than most folks on the forum, I'd say anybody would be lucky to have some that still work properly. I have 3 left that do work just as they did when I purchased them (I bought 6 of them on eBay and CL because I couldn't put up with D*'s pitiful replacements). Those 6 cost me, after buying access cards and 2TB drives, between $2,000 and $3,000. I've already put my money where my mouth is. I don't wager on anything anymore, another addiction I've overcome.



> Furthermore, the more programs on your unit, the more processing it takes to sort when you hit the playlist. The older HR2x were not meant to perform this type of processing needed with large multiterrabyte drives and thus this slows down response a great deal.


My UPL pops up on every one of my HRs just fine. I see little difference between my 3 HR20-700s or my 9 HR24s when it comes to the Playlist, which is rather massive.

Remember, I'm not comparing any of the 21 series HRs, all I have are the best HRs that D* has made, in my opinion.

Rich


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Laxguy said:


> You and a small handful of people are convinced that the HD guide kiboshed just about everything speed wise. Yet thousands of others here aren't of the same opinion. Perhaps something else is tinting your glasses??


Hmm, I thought everyone was in agreement that the HD guide slowed down the receivers - it's just that the degree of slowdown varies.


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