# How long does it take MRV network to settle in?



## GenTso (Aug 26, 2008)

If that question seems vague, I'm basically asking how long it takes three receivers to see each other after doing a RBR and powering a DECA? There's plenty of explanation to follow.

OK, so here's my deal. I order MRV last week. Installers come on Friday and change the LNB to a SWM system. The installers also add DECAs to an HR23 and HR22, but don't finish the job because of a legacy receiver that couldn't connect to MRV (though they did upgrade a D11 to D12).

Fast forward to today. Installer comes, replaces the D12 with an H24. I had also been having problems with the HR22 so he replaces it with an HR24.

We hook everything up and activate MRV. We can get the H24 to see the HR24 but not the HR23; the HR23 sees the HR24 at times, others it doesn't; and in the rare instance all three receivers see each other, once the DECA is plugged in and enters the equation, none of the receivers see anything. 

After hours and countless RBR and system resets, we reset the HR23 to factor defaults because it had been hooked up to my home broadband network via ethernet. We once again power cycle all the units (leaving the DECA unplugged) and each receiver can see the other. But yet again (and time after time), each time the DECA enters into the equation, at least one or all of the receivers will go blind. 

The installer ... he just thought he was going to drop of a new receiver for me (HA!) ... spent about three hours on the phone with ISS troubleshooting. I could hear them going through troubleshooting steps until the ISS guy had exhausted all avenues. He then started to say it was probably an issue with my router and IP addresses and that the router probably wasn't issuing an address for each receiver.

But that wasn't the case. I started up the dd-wrt firmware on the router and showed the installer each of the receivers as well as their IP address. So we went through the whole RBR cycle again and again.

Then finally out of nowhere it began to work (I'm at work now and have been since 5 minutes after it began working). The ISS guy said the problem was probably due to the fact that there was probably so much traffic on the network that we weren't giving the system time to catch up. 

Does that sound right to any of you guys who are very familiar with the system? 

I will say this -- the installer didn't give up and though he wasn't real familiar with the intricacies of the system, he wanted to learn in case he or someone else ran up against the problem in the future.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

While you posted a fair amount, I don't have an idea of how the router gets into the DECA cloud.


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## GenTso (Aug 26, 2008)

I hope this is a good enough explanation: router is bridged via ethernet into the standalone RG6 line that powers the SWM and DECA (I guess).

Previously that RG6 was an additional line from the satellite for one of two tuners on the DVR in my living room. When they installed SWM and DECA, it became the extra line they needed to power the SWM system. 

Now it's acting up again: The H24 can see the HR24 but not the HR23; the HR23 sees itself (obviously) and the HR24; the HR24 does not see the HR23. All of them have network services activated. The HR23 and HR24 can access VOD and D* Apps and the H24 can access D* Apps.

The strange thing is that if the Internet is left completely out of the MRV equation, it works fine with all DVRs and receivers able to see each other. But the second the Internet enters the equation one or more of the DVRs (usually the HR23) have trouble seeing each other. 

Could it possibly be an issue with the HR23? As I said, we did a factory restore and it didn't help it (lost everything on the DVR for no reason ). If it comes down to it, I can live without the D* Apps or VOD ... at least until they start offering more HD content, but I digress. 

This may have just been an excuse to get out (and it was more the ISS guy going down this road because the installer really wanted to get it figured out), but it seems the whole "network needs to settle in" explanation was false. Traffic over the WAN has come way down since it's not having to constantly redownload info from the RBR and the receivers are still having trouble seeing each other.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

GenTso said:


> I hope this is a good enough explanation: router is bridged via ethernet into the standalone RG6 line that powers the SWM and DECA (I guess).
> 
> Previously that RG6 was an additional line from the satellite for one of two tuners on the DVR in my living room. When they installed SWM and DECA, it became the extra line they needed to power the SWM system.
> 
> ...


Sorry to "re-ask this" but I'm still not fully sure how you're doing this.


> router is bridged via ethernet into the standalone RG6 line that powers the SWM and DECA (I guess).


So there is a coax line that goes into the SWiM PI, and then there is a DECA [and PI] with an ethernet cable running to your router?
When you disconnect the ethernet to your router, MRV works fine/great?
"I hope" there isn't another ethernet cable connect to any of the receivers.


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## fl_dba (Sep 29, 2006)

I don't have any router involved in my SWiM/DECA install and I have a very similar problem with some DVR's visible and others not visible and some being visible and then disappearing. So if you decide to remove your router/ICK from the equation and still have the same problem then it would be an even closer match and I would be very interested in what fixes it.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

fl_dba said:


> I don't have any router involved in my SWiM/DECA install and I have a very similar problem with some DVR's visible and others not visible and some being visible and then disappearing. So if you decide to remove your router/ICK from the equation and still have the same problem then it would be an even closer match and I would be very interested in what fixes it.


Which is kind of why I'm still trying to see what is the connection.
"Most" don't have these issues when connected to the router.
"Some" are having these and it looks like it "might be" caused by the router.


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## GenTso (Aug 26, 2008)

veryoldschool said:


> So there is a coax line that goes into the SWiM PI, and then there is a DECA [and PI] with an ethernet cable running to your router?


I'm sorry, but I'm not real good on some of the jargon here.

From the multiswitch, the RG6 cable goes to the DECA, then the DECA has a PI at the end which is plugged into a wall outlet. A dedicated ethernet line runs from my router to that DECA to bridge the home network. That RG6 drop is in the same room as the HR24 (which shouldn't be plugged in to the DECA, right?). The RG6 run I'm describing is not connected to a receiver. There is a separate, parallel run from the multiswitch to the HR24.

I misspoke in an earlier post. The PI for the SWM is in the same room as the H24. I was under the impression that the extra RG6 run (not connected to a receiver) was supposed to power the SWM but I guess it is just for the DECA.

In the room with the HR23, the RG6 goes from the multiswitch to DECA, then DECA to HR23 via coax patch and to the top network port via 3" ethernet patch line.

In the room with the H24, the RG6 from the multiswitch goes to the SWM power inserter, then to the H24.

Does it matter which DECA is bridged to the router? If so, what was the point of the extra line that I read about and was discussed with installers?



veryoldschool said:


> When you disconnect the ethernet to your router, MRV works fine/great?


Yes



veryoldschool said:


> "I hope" there isn't another ethernet cable connect to any of the receivers.


Just the little 3" patch line from the DECA to the HR23.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

GenTso said:


> I'm sorry, but I'm not real good on some of the jargon here.
> 
> From the multiswitch, the RG6 cable goes to the DECA, then the DECA has a PI at the end which is plugged into a wall outlet. A dedicated ethernet line runs from my router to that DECA to bridge the home network. That RG6 drop is in the same room as the HR24 (which shouldn't be plugged in to the DECA, right?). The RG6 run I'm describing is not connected to a receiver. There is a separate, parallel run from the multiswitch to the HR24.
> 
> ...


"No problem"
It sounds like you've got it setup correctly.
There have been a couple/few posts from others having issues like this.
"Since I'm not", it kind of hard to know exactly what the source/cause is, "but" disconnecting the router kind of points to it being the problem.
What type/model router are you using?


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## GenTso (Aug 26, 2008)

veryoldschool said:


> Which is kind of why I'm still trying to see what is the connection.
> "Most" don't have these issues when connected to the router.
> "Some" are having these and it looks like it "might be" caused by the router.


I use a Linksys WRT54gl with dd-wrt firmware.

The routers sees and issues an IP address for each D* device on the network. Just an FYI since the ISS tech guy seemed to be returning to this well until I visually showed the installer where the router had issued IP addresses to the receivers (using the dd-wrt software).

Not to confuse things but as a side note: I am using a relatively long ethernet (20') run from the router to the DECA. That's the reason I asked if it mattered which DECA was bridged to the network. My HR23 is in the same room as the router, BUT the extra RG6 run from the multiswitch is in the same room as the HR24 and I already had the 20' ethernet run there from the MRV beta.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

GenTso said:


> I use a Linksys WRT54gl with dd-wrt firmware.
> 
> The routers sees and issues an IP address for each D* device on the network. Just an FYI since the ISS tech guy seemed to be returning to this well until I visually showed the installer where the router had issued IP addresses to the receivers (using the dd-wrt software).
> 
> Not to confuse things but as a side note: I am using a relatively long ethernet (20') run from the router to the DECA. That's the reason I asked if it mattered which DECA was bridged to the network. My HR23 is in the same room as the router, BUT the extra RG6 run from the multiswitch is in the same room as the HR24 and I already had the 20' ethernet run there from the MRV beta.


[first off I'm not the network expert] the 20' is a non issue. Mine are that long and I've used a 50' without issues.
I also haven't "lost" a receiver in a very long time.
Doesn't the router [besides issues IPs] actually "tell" the receivers who is where?
When a non router DECA network is setup, it does take "a while" for each receiver to find the others, since there isn't a router to do this.


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## GenTso (Aug 26, 2008)

veryoldschool said:


> "No problem"
> It sounds like you've got it setup correctly.


That's good to know



veryoldschool said:


> "Since I'm not", it kind of hard to know exactly what the source/cause is, "but" disconnecting the router kind of points to it being the problem.


I hear what you're saying. They all see each other before the PI for the DECA is plugged back in to the wall. But once it's plugged in, they have trouble. However, it seems the odd man out is the HR23. Nobody else can see the HR23 (though the HR23 can see the HR24).

I was thinking the HR23 might be the problem, but since it works prior to the DECA being plugged in, it might not be the problem. It just seems like once everything is plugged in and ready to go, most of the problems center around that device (or, more precisely, the HR24 and H24 not being able to see the HR23).


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

GenTso said:


> That's good to know
> 
> I hear what you're saying. They all see each other before the PI for the DECA is plugged back in to the wall. But once it's plugged in, they have trouble. However, it seems the odd man out is the HR23. Nobody else can see the HR23 (though the HR23 can see the HR24).
> 
> I was thinking the HR23 might be the problem, but since it works prior to the DECA being plugged in, it might not be the problem. It just seems like once everything is plugged in and ready to go, most of the problems center around that device (or, more precisely, the HR24 and H24 not being able to see the HR23).


Try this:
power down the DECA to router and then all the receivers [by removing the power cords]. Then reboot your router. This normally is done by pulling the power for a couple of mins.
Then power up the DECA to router and go to each receiver and power them up one at a time.
Then see what/which drops out first/second, etc.


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## GenTso (Aug 26, 2008)

veryoldschool said:


> [first off I'm not the network expert] the 20' is a non issue. Mine are that long and I've used a 50' without issues.
> I also haven't "lost" a receiver in a very long time.
> Doesn't the router [besides issues IPs] actually "tell" the receivers who is where?
> When a non router DECA network is setup, it does take "a while" for each receiver to find the others, since there isn't a router to do this.


It just seems weird that each receiver can see the Internet but not each other. I guess I could try to go directly from the modem to the DECA and bypass the router for troubleshooting purposes.

It can't hurt. If it works then that was the issue all along.

I'm going to try that. I'll completely power cycle all the receivers and the DECA and modem, then go for a walk while they reset (leaving the DECA and modem unplugged). When I get back and confirm that each of the receivers can see each other, I'll plug in the modem and DECA and see what happens.

Stay tuned!


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## GenTso (Aug 26, 2008)

veryoldschool said:


> Try this:
> power down the DECA to router and then all the receivers [by removing the power cords]. Then reboot your router. This normally is done by pulling the power for a couple of mins.
> Then power up the DECA to router and go to each receiver and power them up one at a time.
> Then see what/which drops out first/second, etc.


lol, great minds think alike.

Edit, well, great minds think in the same ballpark.


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## espaeth (Oct 14, 2003)

veryoldschool said:


> Doesn't the router [besides issues IPs] actually "tell" the receivers who is where?
> When a non router DECA network is setup, it does take "a while" for each receiver to find the others, since there isn't a router to do this.


It takes the receivers longer to find each other because the DHCP client has to time out and then it auto-assigns itself an address out of the 169.254.0.0/16 netblock. (169.254.0.0-169.254.255.255) It waits a fair amount of time for something on the network to provide an IP via a DHCP service before it gives up and goes the auto-assignment route.

One thing for the OP to check: make sure you have no open connections on the splitter or on any coax runs that connect back to the splitter. If you have open runs that aren't connected to equipment and have no 75ohm terminators on them you can get all kinds of weird issues like that with MoCA / DECA.


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## GenTso (Aug 26, 2008)

First off, I'm back!

I tried my idea to bypass the router and connected directly to the modem. When I returned to all the receivers that had been reset, they could all see each other like they should.

I plugged in the modem. Once it was all booted, I plugged in the DECA. At the closest DVR (HR24), I went to Network>Advanced setup. Once that cleared, there was no option to connect. I then went to Network Services and the same thing happened. I tried Repeat Network Setup and the option to connect showed up after a few seconds. I was then able to connect the HR24 to the Internet.

I went to the HR23 and H24 and tried the same thing. The option to connect was always greyed out. After a couple of minutes, I decided it didn't work.

However, I would have been OK with this solution -- all receivers able to see each other with one receiver connected to Internet/VOD.

Should I have waited longer? If so, how long? I was under the impression that my modem was only going to assign one IP address to the network so it made sense that the others wouldn't be able to connect, but I could be wrong.

This is what confuses me. The ISS guy kept saying the DECA should be connected directly to the modem, but I explained that wasn't really an option. I would have to pay for two Internet connections into the same house as would most other people. Even then it's not a guarantee that your modem will assign more than one IP address.



espaeth said:


> One thing for the OP to check: make sure you have no open connections on the splitter or on any coax runs that connect back to the splitter. If you have open runs that aren't connected to equipment and have no 75ohm terminators on them you can get all kinds of weird issues like that with MoCA / DECA.


What do you mean by splitter ... Multiswitch, maybe?

I have a dedicated coax run that goes to the DECA. After the DECA, there's a 4" piece of coax and then a 1" black cylinder-shaped thing that terminates the coax line with a power supply. This is what I described earlier as the PI for the DECA. Is this the 75ohm terminator you described? There is no equipment on the coax run (other than DECA).


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## GenTso (Aug 26, 2008)

GenTso said:


> Should I have waited longer? If so, how long?


I guess this was answered earlier with "a while" by VOS earlier in the thread. I have to go to work in an hour so I'll try the same thing I did before, but leave the DECA and modem connected the entire time and see what happens when I get home.

Hopefully that's long enough.


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## DogLover (Mar 19, 2007)

GenTso said:


> ...
> Should I have waited longer? If so, how long? I was under the impression that my modem was only going to assign one IP address to the network so it made sense that the others wouldn't be able to connect, but I could be wrong.
> 
> This is what confuses me. The ISS guy kept saying the DECA should be connected directly to the modem, but I explained that wasn't really an option. I would have to pay for two Internet connections into the same house as would most other people. Even then it's not a guarantee that your modem will assign more than one IP address.
> ...


You are correct, this setup doesn't really make sense. I know our cable modem will only assign 1 IP address. The DECA for the internet should be connected to your router (or a switch connected to your router), so that the DHCP server will assign an address to all of the receivers/DVRs. If the modem does give only 1 IP address out, the other will eventually negotiate "169." local addresses. They might be able to see each other, but not the one that got the network address from the modem.

I am assuming that as you've been plugging in the DECA to your router, you are either re-running network setup or rebooting the receivers/DVRs. Without the DECA connection to the "outside world" they will have negotiated the "169." addresses. You would need to prompt them to grab DHCP addresses once you connect to the router.


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

You still haven't tried what VOS recommended. Unplug your DECA PI and all your receivers and router. Reboot the router and then once it is powered up, plug in the DECA PI. Then go to each receiver, one at a time, power them up and run the Network Setup on each. As you add each one, check the previous ones to see if they can still see each other.

As for splitter vs. multi-switch, with SWiM, you don't use a multi-switch anymore, you will be using a splitter. It should have one cable in and either 4 or 8 outputs. On any outputs that are not being used, there should be a terminator there.

- Merg


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## GenTso (Aug 26, 2008)

The Merg said:


> You still haven't tried what VOS recommended. Unplug your DECA PI and all your receivers and router. Reboot the router and then once it is powered up, plug in the DECA PI. Then go to each receiver, one at a time, power them up and run the Network Setup on each. As you add each one, check the previous ones to see if they can still see each other.
> 
> As for splitter vs. multi-switch, with SWiM, you don't use a multi-switch anymore, you will be using a splitter. It should have one cable in and either 4 or 8 outputs. On any outputs that are not being used, there should be a terminator there.
> 
> - Merg


OK, I'm glad that's cleared on the splitter/multiswitch.

As for VOS recommendation, outside from powering on each receiver one at a time, that was one of the first things I tried. However, I will try powering them on one at a time as suggested.

Now that I look at VOS description, it was also in the opposite order that I'd tried to do that. I went receivers (all at once) > router > DECA.

I'll try to come home and try it during a dinner break and report back the results.


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## espaeth (Oct 14, 2003)

GenTso said:


> I was under the impression that my modem was only going to assign one IP address to the network so it made sense that the others wouldn't be able to connect, but I could be wrong.
> 
> This is what confuses me. The ISS guy kept saying the DECA should be connected directly to the modem


You're right, the ISS guy is wrong. Your modem is only going to dole out a single IP so it's not going to work.



GenTso said:


> What do you mean by splitter ... Multiswitch, maybe?


With SWM there isn't a switch -- it's a straight splitter. The splitter should look something like this (though it probably has a green label):











GenTso said:


> I have a dedicated coax run that goes to the DECA. After the DECA, there's a 4" piece of coax and then a 1" black cylinder-shaped thing that terminates the coax line with a power supply. This is what I described earlier as the PI for the DECA.


The DECA modules typically draw power from the receiver. You have a separate DECA module for connecting to your home network, so since it doesn't attach into a receiver it needs a power adapter. That's what you're referring to the "power inserter" only it's not inserting power into anything but that one DECA module.



GenTso said:


> Is this the 75ohm terminator you described? There is no equipment on the coax run (other than DECA).


The terminators look like this:









The are placed on any port on the splitter that doesn't have an active connection run to it. You can't have any open lines anywhere -- anything without an active connection needs to be properly terminated.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

GenTso said:


> Now that I look at VOS description...


There was some "method to my madness". :lol:


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## GenTso (Aug 26, 2008)

veryoldschool said:


> There was some "method to my madness". :lol:


Indeed there was. Everything works now as it should. Thank you, thank you, thank you! All the receivers are connected and see each other as well as the Internet. /crosses fingers

I wish the tech would have known to do things in this order. He insisted to power up the receivers, then the DECA which is where the problem seemed to occur.

I'm just glad to know it wasn't a problem with the router.

Again, thank you, VOS. I'm POSITIVE this won't be the last time this comes up so I'll try to spread the word as well.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

GenTso said:


> Indeed there was. Everything works now as it should. Thank you, thank you, thank you! All the receivers are connected and see each other as well as the Internet. /crosses fingers
> 
> *I wish the tech would have known to do things in this order. He insisted to power up the receivers, then the DECA which is where the problem seemed to occur.*


VOS has come to the rescue plenty of times. 

Yes, some of the techs themselves are just coming up to speed on the Whole Home DVR Service setup. Demand seems to be high, and the training period was short. In reality, some of the folks here at DBSTalk (like VOS) have been testing this prior to its general release, so these "bumps in the road" are perhaps better known.

Glad you are now working.


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## azarby (Dec 15, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> VOS has come to the rescue plenty of times.
> 
> Yes, some of the techs themselves are just coming up to speed on the Whole Home DVR Service setup. Demand seems to be high, and the training period was short. In reality, some of the folks here at DBSTalk (like VOS) have been testing this prior to its general release, so these "bumps in the road" are perhaps better known.
> 
> Glad you are now working.


The process that VOS, others and myself have suggested in this and other threads was derived from several months of testing before release to the general public. This sequence does have some reasoning for it. SWiM is powered on first to provide power to the LNB and get the SWiM circuitry stabilized. Next is to get the DECA adapter talking to the router and to provide a path so that eventually each IRD can obtain a DNS address from the router. Sequencing the IRDs allows each one to get assigned a SWiM channel and then to process the ethernet requests for a DNS address from the router. The wait for each IRD to complete is just to allow enough time for EACH IRD to complete its handshaking process first to the SWiM and then the network without interference from any other traffic. This is a tried and true method that has solved a lot of mysterious problems. Hopefully it will be added as a sticky for others to follow.


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