# Second Dish or 1 Dish 1000



## bthessel (Oct 26, 2004)

I ordered the 622 on the first and it is to be installed on the 25th. I am in Cincinnati, OH. Will the installer be putting up a 1000 or will I need a second dish? My HOA only allows for 1 dish so it will be a problem if I need a second one. The person that I talked to when I ordered couldn't tell me.


----------



## Rogueone (Jan 29, 2004)

in Ohio, you should be in line of sight for 129 if there are no obstructions. I'd contact the installer if possible and discuss with them. They might not know it yet, but Dish has suggested in their statements about what gets installed with an HD receiver that the 1000 should be the norm now if 129 is viewable. I'd like to know what the installers are being told in that regard too


----------



## jcm.oo (Jan 24, 2005)

A dish 1000 dosen't help much if your locals are on 105. You would need a second dish regardless for HD if youre locals are on 105.


----------



## foojay (Feb 6, 2006)

jcm.oo said:


> A dish 1000 dosen't help much if your locals are on 105. You would need a second dish regardless for HD if youre locals are on 105.


How do you find this out? Are the Atlanta local HD"s on 105?


----------



## jcm.oo (Jan 24, 2005)

foojay said:


> How do you find this out? Are the Atlanta local HD"s on 105?


Atlanta SD locals are on 110. If you can get signal on 129 then you would only have to have a single dish 1000. There is no HD locals up yet.

http://ekb.dbstalk.com/dishlist.htm


----------



## foojay (Feb 6, 2006)

jcm.oo said:


> Atlanta SD locals are on 110. If you can get signal on 129 then you would only have to have a single dish 1000. There is no HD locals up yet.
> 
> System info says that I am on 119 and 110. Why am I pointed at a West Satellite? Is that based on the geography around my house (trees, etc) Is this also why I am getting so much pixelation in my signal?


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

You are West of England where 0° West cuts the globe. 

I'm at 85° West (or so)


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

foojay said:


> System info says that I am on 119 and 110. Why am I pointed at a West Satellite?


Those two satellites are relatively centrally located as they serve the entire United States. Georgia is about 84 degrees West while the Oregon Coast is about 125 degrees West. Most of the Atlanta locals come from 110 and the rest are on 61.5. The HD locals will be on 61.5 also.


> Is that based on the geography around my house (trees, etc) Is this also why I am getting so much pixelation in my signal?


Check the System Info for your signal strength. If it moves around a lot, you may have something in the way. If the signal is steadily below 75 on both satellites, then you need to have your dish re-aimed.


----------



## foojay (Feb 6, 2006)

harsh said:


> Those two satellites are relatively centrally located as they serve the entire United States. Georgia is about 84 degrees West while the Oregon Coast is about 125 degrees West. Most of the Atlanta locals come from 110 and the rest are on 61.5. The HD locals will be on 61.5 also.Check the System Info for your signal strength. If it moves around a lot, you may have something in the way. If the signal is steadily below 75 on both satellites, then you need to have your dish re-aimed.


So Atlanta HD Locals will be on 61.5 meaning all I will need is a Dish1000? 119 gives me over 100 signal stregth, 110 is about 97 stregth. Using the 625 receiver and the channels are pretty pixelated, it was very evident during the superbowl. I am concerned that when I get my new HDTV with the 622 that the pixelation will become ever more apparent.


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

foojay said:


> So Atlanta HD Locals will be on 61.5 meaning all I will need is a Dish1000?


As James so thoughtfully posted in a "please read" on the ViP622 forum index, those who live on the far Eastern and Southern extremes of the continent CANNOT use the Dish1000. Florida, most Georgia and a good chunk of the Northeastern US will need to have at least two dishes.

Here's a link to James' bulletin:

http://www.dbstalk.com/announcement.php?f=107&a=56

Perhaps this should be prominently posted on all Dish forums.


----------



## foojay (Feb 6, 2006)

harsh said:


> As James so thoughtfully posted in a "please read" on the ViP622 forum index, those who live on the far Eastern and Southern extremes of the continent CANNOT use the Dish1000. Florida, most Georgia and a good chunk of the Northeastern US will need to have at least two dishes.
> 
> Here's a link to James' bulletin:
> 
> ...


According to the map all of Georgia will not need 2 dishes.


----------



## Rogueone (Jan 29, 2004)

oh I like that map. Only one problem, that doesn't help us "know" where Dish will put our HD locals. I'm near Wash DC and that map shows i can see 129, but Im curious if I will with tress and all, that would have to kind of low in the sky wouldn't it?


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

harsh said:


> http://www.dbstalk.com/announcement.php?f=107&a=56
> Perhaps this should be prominently posted on all Dish forums.


It covers all being on this forum. It's only on the ViP-622 forum because of the other part of the announcement.


----------



## lakebum431 (Jun 30, 2005)

Actually, most of GA can see 129. And as far as I know there has been no announcement of where the Atlanta HD locals will be positioned.


----------



## Rogueone (Jan 29, 2004)

yeah, I called a tech today to see if they've been provided any documentation on HD locals placement. It seems no one from the planning dept has bother to inform tech support or install what the plans are for HD Locals. Now this bothers me both as a customer and a customer  

as a customer, I don't want to have to call a tech back out when HD locals go on because the wrong Dish(s) was installed when I had my 211/622 installed. As as a customer, I don't want Dish having to pay you thousands of dollars, probably 10's of thousands, to replace the incorrect Dish with the correct Dish because they forgot to tell the installer where they were "planning" for the HD to go. I'd say everyone should call and ask for clarity on that and maybe email ceo about getting out a list so the correct dish gets installed  

of course, maybe it's a moot point and they are planning all HD locals to be covered by the 1000 sats, meaning that once E10 is up at 110, they'll use all those extra spotbeams to feed HD locals to those they don't stick on 129.


----------



## derwin0 (Jan 31, 2005)

lakebum431 said:


> Actually, most of GA can see 129. And as far as I know there has been no announcement of where the Atlanta HD locals will be positioned.


When I added Voom to my account last month (before the $5 package went away) to my Atlanta address, a few CSR's insisted I have a Dish 1000 put up, even though I kept telling them I already had 61.5 (4 minor locals are currently there). So that made me think they're looking at Atlanta HD being on 129.


----------



## garys (Nov 4, 2005)

When I am asked where do I think the HD Locals are going, I look where the existing locals are. They may move them later, but since the HD becomes part of the local channel package, that should be a good indicator. But check with a reputable local dealer if there is any indication they may be moved in the near future first (once Echostar X goes up).


----------



## Mikey (Oct 26, 2004)

Bottom line - let them put up whatever dish they want, but don't let them take any of your current satellites away from you.


----------



## larrystotler (Jun 6, 2004)

Rogueone said:


> oh I like that map. Only one problem, that doesn't help us "know" where Dish will put our HD locals. I'm near Wash DC and that map shows i can see 129, but Im curious if I will with tress and all, that would have to kind of low in the sky wouldn't it?


Due to the size of the DC market(DMA #6), it is a good chance that the DC HD/Digital LiLs will be placed on E*10 after it is launched. It would make more sense for them to use the 61.5 for the smaller DMAs. Here's hoping at least.


----------



## Rogueone (Jan 29, 2004)

I'm sorta wondering at this point too if they might not move a bunch of HD locals to 110 once E10 gets up there. Would seem logical with all those extra transponders and if they intend to set most of the country up with d1000's going forward. 

as long as I get to keep 61.5 as I'll have to butcher some trees to get 129, I had enough trouble getting 110/119


----------



## lakebum431 (Jun 30, 2005)

Rogueone said:


> I'm sorta wondering at this point too if they might not move a bunch of HD locals to 110 once E10 gets up there. Would seem logical with all those extra transponders and if they intend to set most of the country up with d1000's going forward.
> 
> as long as I get to keep 61.5 as I'll have to butcher some trees to get 129, I had enough trouble getting 110/119


Yeah, that is what is a pain in the ass. Since a few of the Atl locals are still on 61.5 lots of people in Atlanta have the 61.5 dish all set. I guess I'll take the 1000 when I upgrade, but I'm keeping the 61.5 for sure. Luckily I already have the DPP44 so it shouldn't matter to the installer.


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

lakebum431 said:


> Yeah, that is what is a pain in the ass. Since a few of the Atl locals are still on 61.5 lots of people in Atlanta have the 61.5 dish all set. I guess I'll take the 1000 when I upgrade, but I'm keeping the 61.5 for sure. Luckily I already have the DPP44 so it shouldn't matter to the installer.


Here's my take:

Because you live in a market currently served, in part, by 61.5, they won't give you a Dish1000. Recall that they said they would give you everything you "need". The 61.5 plus the Dish500 currently take care of all of your needs. Everyone in your market must be able to reach a satellite for them to locate your programming there. 129 is just too much of a reach and it doesn't offer anything additional that you would eligible to subscribe to.

Since some of your available locals come from a 61.5 now, it is _very_ likely that the HD will be there too. Remember that there is a lot of pressure coming from the regulators and/or legislators to reduce things to a single dish. D*'s AT9 5 LNB behemoth probably is not what they want to do as Rainbow 1 is just too far out on the wing unless they do a single dish with two distinct faces.


----------



## Rogueone (Jan 29, 2004)

as was mentioned somewhre in all this, expect those with split locals on 61.5 to move to 110 once E*10 is up. The requirement is by June or so for locals to be on one dish. So I'd expect more people to have their locals on 110, and 61.5 would likely serve mainly those in the non 129 areas. Personally I'd not want to loose 61.5 as the signal from 129 is weak even for people in LA, and I'll likely have treelimb issues.


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Rogueone said:


> The requirement is by June or so for locals to be on one dish. So I'd expect more people to have their locals on 110, and 61.5 would likely serve mainly those in the non 129 areas.


My guess is that 129 will be reserved for those West of the Mississippi. They're probably going to have to come out with a siamese dish that can do 61.5, 110 and 119. I would imagine that they'll move all of the 105 and 121 stuff to 110.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Too many variables to do a 110-119-61.5 dish as a "single dish". E* has had it's issues with SuperDishes and prefers using DBS satellites. Getting as much as they can on 119 and 110 would be helpful - with 129 helping out where it can (for national HD) and 61.5 helping out where 129 can't.

IIRC: Chicago LIL HDs are testing on 129. Not quite west of the Mississippi.

Here's some math.
From the southern United States the look angle to see 110 and 119 is wider apart than from the northern US:
San Diego CA (92101): 110 = Az 154 El 51; 119 = Az 170 El 52
Seattle WA (98101): 110 = Az 144 El 34; 119 = Az 155 El 35
Miami FL (33109): 110 = Az 236 El 45; 119 = Az 245 El 38
Bangor ME (04401): 110 = Az 250 El 24; 119 = Az 259 El 19

The Dish500 is designed to work in all four locations ... it can separate satellites seen as 16° apart in San Diego or only 11° apart in Seattle - without making local adjustments (other than skew).

Miami FL (33109): 110 = Az 236 El 45; 119 = Az 245 El 38; 61.5 = Az 145 El 53
Bangor ME (04401): 110 = Az 250 El 24; 119 = Az 259 El 19; 61.5 = Az 189 El 38

The same basic difference is there for Dish500s in Miami and Bangor but 61.5 is 91° degrees off of 110 in Miami and 61° off of 110 in Bangor. The "third element" would have to swing 30° and have a separately adjustable elevation to be useful. Basically you're taking a D100 and mountinh a D300 on to it. It may be on the same pole - but it isn't one dish.

Congress and the FCC is looking for "one dish" not two glued together.


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

James Long said:


> Congress and the FCC is looking for "one dish" not two glued together.


I understand that, but if they won't let E* move Rainbow1, they are kind of over a barrel.


> I've laid hands on an AT9 and I think I'd have to reinforce the roof to install one. It seems to be larger than many of the two-way satellite dishes and the wing LNB is hanging out there. D*'s birds are all within a 20% sweep versus the minimum 54% swath that E* must swing out


----------



## Paul43 (Feb 2, 2006)

harsh said:


> Here's my take:
> 
> Because you live in a market currently served, in part, by 61.5, they won't give you a Dish1000. Recall that they said they would give you everything you "need". The 61.5 plus the Dish500 currently take care of all of your needs. Everyone in your market must be able to reach a satellite for them to locate your programming there. 129 is just too much of a reach and it doesn't offer anything additional that you would eligible to subscribe to.
> 
> Since some of your available locals come from a 61.5 now, it is _very_ likely that the HD will be there too. Remember that there is a lot of pressure coming from the regulators and/or legislators to reduce things to a single dish. D*'s AT9 5 LNB behemoth probably is not what they want to do as Rainbow 1 is just too far out on the wing unless they do a single dish with two distinct faces.


Ordered a 211 on Feb 1 in anticipation of Atlanta in M4. A 411 and 1000 dish were installed on Feb 5. Had trouble with signal strength on 129 (could not get above 55-60 with 90+ on 110 and 119. Tech CSR said 129 scale is 'different' and 50+ would be OK.

I had the AT180 and DHP prior to Feb 1 and decided to keep it when the CSR said my bill would go up $19+ with a Gold HD. They failed to tell me of the $6 FEE in the fine print if you keep the DHP and don't switch to Gold HD - it's in the 'fine print'. Still haven't gotten the bill straightened out.


----------



## larrystotler (Jun 6, 2004)

James Long said:


> Congress and the FCC is looking for "one dish" not two glued together.


The one dish rule ONLY applies to LiLs. So long as ALL of the LiLs in one market are transmitted from the same location, you can have 6 dishes for all they care. Technically, you could have the D500 at 110/119 for regulat programming, the 61.5 for Analog LiLs, and the 83 for Digital LiLs. That would be 3 dishes, and that would fall within the rules. There has never been any 1 dish for all programming requirement. Merely the 1 dish/location for LiLs due to the "preferencial" treatment that the 4 main network locals got over the smaller locals. And that was only becasue E* allowed the second dish to be optional. If they had required the second dish for all subs with LiLs, then it would not have mattered.


----------

