# Closed Caption Not Working



## mheisen (Jul 2, 2006)

I am a new 622 user. I like CC when mute (noisy house). I cannot get CC on any HD channels or the standard def channels (with the exception of one local that I also get through Dish) even with it turned on in the 622 menu. I have tried turning it on in my Toshiba HD TV as well, with no results. I have run RCA jacks from the SD output of the 622 into a second input in the TV with no results. Before the 622, I had a 508 plugged in with no problem at all with the CC.

I know it sounds a bit bizzare, but would appreciate any thoughts. I use HDMI to connect the High Def.

Thanks for your time.

Marc Eisen


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## Eagles (Dec 31, 2003)

Marc,
The CC in general on the 622 is very problematic. There is no CC support at this time on Dish HD locals. You should however be receiving the CC coming from most of your other channels. Your TV will not receive the CC info when using the HDMI or Component outputs from the 622. The 622 does the decoding and the CC must be turned on in the menu. You should be getting CC via the TV when viewing via the SD (RCA) outputs from the 622 so long as the CC on your TV is enabled. Read page 90 in the 622 manual.
It seems funny that you are getting next to nothing as far as CC support. Double check to make sure that the CC is on in the 622 menu. You may also want to check the various settings in the CC menu. Make sure you are set for service-1. When I switch to the other service options, nothing appears. Also check the opacity setting. If the foreground and background are set to transparent, nothing will show on the TV.
My problem with the 622/CC is not a lack of CC but how it's improperly displayed.
Many of the display options do not work properly, there is missing text, and the CC is way out of sync on most programs. 
If you continue to have problems the best thing to do is to call Dish and make an official complaint. I went through this with the 921. The problem is that not many people need or use the CC so not many complaints are lodged. As a result the CC bug is a low priority. Just keep calling and bugging them. I would also ask all of those on this site to lend a hand with this and give Dish a call to complain about the CC not working properly.



mheisen said:


> I am a new 622 user. I like CC when mute (noisy house). I cannot get CC on any HD channels or the standard def channels (with the exception of one local that I also get through Dish) even with it turned on in the 622 menu. I have tried turning it on in my Toshiba HD TV as well, with no results. I have run RCA jacks from the SD output of the 622 into a second input in the TV with no results. Before the 622, I had a 508 plugged in with no problem at all with the CC.
> 
> I know it sounds a bit bizzare, but would appreciate any thoughts. I use HDMI to connect the High Def.
> 
> ...


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## airpolgas (Aug 13, 2002)

Sorry I had to ressurrect this thread, but I don't want to add another closed caption thread.

Is this even being considered a bug in the 622? I've had problems with CC on local HDs since I got the unit last April, and there have been numerous software updates that does not correct this error.

It does not help that Michael Scoffield talks hush-hush most of the time while the background score keeps thumping away with drums to heighten the suspense. I have a similar experience with the score on The Unit - I can't hear what they are saying unless I turn up the volume - at 11 PM on a weeknight! (most parents have to wait until the kids are tucked in to watch their shows).

Why, oh why can't this be fixed? If I view the same local HD show on TV 2, I can get my SD TV to display the CC. If I view Heroes on SciFi on TV1, I have CC. If I view HBOHD, I have CC.

Why can't I have CC on my local HDs? GRRR...

Please, software developers, include the fix for this on the next update.


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## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

airpolgas said:


> Sorry I had to ressurrect this thread, but I don't want to add another closed caption thread.
> 
> Is this even being considered a bug in the 622? I've had problems with CC on local HDs since I got the unit last April, and there have been numerous software updates that does not correct this error.
> 
> ...


Compared to some of the other Dish HD receivers, CC works great on the Vip622. But it obviously has some problems.

Very problematic is the fact that they don't have CC working on some (all?) the HD locals. At one point they claimed that it is being broadcast, but there was a bug in some of the receivers. I read that as all the receivers.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

CC does work on some HD locals. In Denver, CC's even in sync at least some of the time. I don't know why they still don't have it working on the rest of the digital locals, though.


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## Jolard (Feb 14, 2006)

This is something I really would like too. There are times when there is a lot going on in the house that I like to just Mute the TV and read the sub titles. Just cuts down on the noise. However I don't like the 622 implementation. 

First it is too hard to turn them off and on, I have to go deep in the menus, and it seems like it should just be a remote click, or at least have them come on automatically when I mute the TV. 

Second, they don't work nearly enough as has been indicated above. Since I got my 622, none of the HD locals seem to work with the closed captioning. 

I agree, lets get this fixed!


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## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

Jolard said:


> This is something I really would like too. There are times when there is a lot going on in the house that I like to just Mute the TV and read the sub titles. Just cuts down on the noise. However I don't like the 622 implementation.
> 
> First it is too hard to turn them off and on, I have to go deep in the menus, and it seems like it should just be a remote click, or at least have them come on automatically when I mute the TV.
> 
> ...


Simply working with the mute button is not going to happen as the mute button is a TV not receiver control. On one of my HDTV TV's it cycle between on and off, but on the others it cycles between full vol, half vol, and mute.

However a quick control of turning on and off CC for the receiver would be a great idea (perhaps with an option in the CC menu to say whether or not to enable this).


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## Eagles (Dec 31, 2003)

As per Mark Lamutt's suggestion a while back, I e-mailed [email protected] concerning a couple different CC issues including no CC support for my HD locals (Wash DC.), CC display problems, and CC sync problems. I sent them numerous screenshots and video clips highlighting the various problems. They also requested That I run some specific tests they described. 
As far as I can tell, and what I was told by my Dish contact, these CC issues are known and being worked on by Dish engineers and "Will be corrected". Time will tell.


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## airpolgas (Aug 13, 2002)

Thanks. I'll email that address as well.


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## rogburr (Oct 24, 2006)

Hello,

I have searched and have not found what I am looking for. So here goes.

I am close to ordering an HD installation that would include the ViP622, but after seeing some of the threads regarding poor CC on this device I am wondering if I should hold off for a while.

I could see where some of the new local HD channels might have CC problems because of the use of the newer MPEG4 compression, but CC on regular HD channels that provide CC should be working well. Also, CC on SD channels should be fine also.

What can I expect with the following HD channels in terms of CC: ESPNHD; ESPN2HD; TNTHD; DISCOVERYHD; HBOHD and any other HD channels that normally privide captioning?

Also, what about the standard definition channels?

I don't mind some problems with HD locals, but the other HD and SD channels should show CC well if I am to enjoy this dvr. If not, it would be a huge mistake for me to subscribe to E* since I rely heavily on captioning.

Thanks for you help.

Roger


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## yence99 (Jan 31, 2005)

CC on TNT HD is basically worthless, always (!) a big delay. I think all the other channels you listed are ok.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

:welcome_s rogburr. Hope you enjoy the site.


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## Charise (Jan 25, 2004)

tnsprin said:


> Simply working with the mute button is not going to happen as the mute button is a TV not receiver control.


I am using the same tv now with a 622 as I used with a 721. When using the 721, I could hit the mute button on the 721 remote and have CC. I tried setting that up when I got my 622, but it doesn't work. So, it was possible with at least one receiver--I didn't ever try it on others.

I did just read that when using HDMI with a 622 you won't get CC (in Eagle's earlier post), which is maybe why it's not working properly. I am using HDMI now and wasn't with the 721.


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## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

Charise said:


> I am using the same tv now with a 622 as I used with a 721. When using the 721, I could hit the mute button on the 721 remote and have CC. I tried setting that up when I got my 622, but it doesn't work. So, it was possible with at least one receiver--I didn't ever try it on others.
> 
> I did just read that when using HDMI with a 622 you won't get CC (in Eagle's earlier post), which is maybe why it's not working properly. I am using HDMI now and wasn't with the 721.


CC that is imbedded in the SD video stream and is decoded by your TV when you hit mute. Actually I believe that still works with the 622. Anyone try it?

But the HD CC encoding is different.


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## shortspark (Oct 25, 2006)

I am hard of hearing and wear aids for most of the day. At night when alone I like to remove them and just watch tv. Although it is difficult for me to follow the dialouge, CCs help me a great deal at times. I will have Dish Network installed tomorrow with the HD package (VIP622).

I am a bit confused about what I've read in this thread. Some people report HD does not contain CCs no matter what while others say some channels do, some don't. My D* is similar in this regard that some HD channels have them but most do not. In any event, am I right in assuming that if I hook up the 622 with HDMI or component, I will not receive ANY CCs on ANY stations? Or I simply won't have CCs on HD stations? And if I don't use component or HDMI, how am I going to have HD. I don't think I can get a HD picture at all with regular jack connections as those outputs are analog. 

I guess my question is, what is the best way to view the 622 using CCs and what should the installer tomorrow set up to ensure they are working as well as the equipment allows?


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## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

shortspark said:


> I am hard of hearing and wear aids for most of the day. At night when alone I like to remove them and just watch tv. Although it is difficult for me to follow the dialouge, CCs help me a great deal at times. I will have Dish Network installed tomorrow with the HD package (VIP622).
> 
> I am a bit confused about what I've read in this thread. Some people report HD does not contain CCs no matter what while others say some channels do, some don't. My D* is similar in this regard that some HD channels have them but most do not. In any event, am I right in assuming that if I hook up the 622 with HDMI or component, I will not receive ANY CCs on ANY stations? Or I simply won't have CCs on HD stations? And if I don't use component or HDMI, how am I going to have HD. I don't think I can get a HD picture at all with regular jack connections as those outputs are analog.
> 
> I guess my question is, what is the best way to view the 622 using CCs and what should the installer tomorrow set up to ensure they are working as well as the equipment allows?


Most streams carry CC and almost all should. Several people have filed complaints against both DirecTv and Dish about not carrying CC.

Currently CC works on MOST of Dish's HD mpeg2 channels but not on most (all?) mpeg4 channels. Also does not work on the NY DISH HD channels (even CBS were it once worked).

Enable CC in menu 8,8,1.


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## shortspark (Oct 25, 2006)

I just asked somewhat similar questions in another, related thread. I am hard of hearing and require CCs. I am having Dish installed tomorrow to take the place of D* which I have had for years. I have two HD set top boxes and a directivo. All handle CCs well, except on HD stations. My STB in the den does not do a good job of it as the CCs are not legible. The STB in the bedroom does a much better job. Standard def broadcasts are all good. I hope that the 622 will do at least as well as what I've been using - but I won't hold my breath.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

To avoid splintering shortspark, I combined the threads.


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## airpolgas (Aug 13, 2002)

I am not sure how it is on other locales, but I am in Los Angeles, and here is what's happening to me, shortspark:

Local HD (networks) do not have CC on TV1 connected via component
Local HD (networks) has CC on TV1 connected via composite
HBOHD has CC on TV1 connected via component
Local non-HD networks (channel range 2XX or 8XXX) has CC on TV1 connected via component
All channels that offer CC have CC on TV2 connected by composite


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## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

shortspark said:


> I just asked somewhat similar questions in another, related thread. I am hard of hearing and require CCs. I am having Dish installed tomorrow to take the place of D* which I have had for years. I have two HD set top boxes and a directivo. All handle CCs well, except on HD stations. My STB in the den does not do a good job of it as the CCs are not legible. The STB in the bedroom does a much better job. Standard def broadcasts are all good. I hope that the 622 will do at least as well as what I've been using - but I won't hold my breath.


The reply I gave you on the other thread.

Most streams carry CC and almost all should. Several people have filed complaints against both DirecTv and Dish about not carrying CC.

Currently CC works on MOST of Dish's HD mpeg2 channels but not on most (all?) mpeg4 channels. Also does not work on the NY DISH HD channels (even CBS were it once worked).

Enable CC in menu 8,8,1.


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## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

airpolgas said:


> I am not sure how it is on other locales, but I am in Los Angeles, and here is what's happening to me, shortspark:
> 
> Local HD (networks) do not have CC on TV1 connected via component
> Local HD (networks) has CC on TV1 connected via composite
> ...


For hd connection you must enable CC on your receiver not on your TV. Menu 8,8,1.


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## airpolgas (Aug 13, 2002)

That's how I enable my CC, tnsprin, on TV1. In case shortspark is reading as well, all TV1 behaviors listed above are talking about the CC on the 622, not my TV. (is your head spinning yet?  )

I am just showing that the same HD local show (the ones that do not manifest CC on the 622 on my TV1), when viewed on TV2, does have CC signal that my TV can decode.


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## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

airpolgas said:


> That's how I enable my CC, tnsprin, on TV1. In case shortspark is reading as well, all TV1 behaviors listed above are talking about the CC on the 622, not my TV. (is your head spinning yet?  )
> 
> I am just showing that the same HD local show (the ones that do not manifest CC on the 622 on my TV1), when viewed on TV2, does have CC signal that my TV can decode.


This implies there is a problem with mpeg4 hardware/software, as once implied by Dish. Some Programs (HBO/Showtime) which are mpeg2 do show CC.


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## retexan599 (Aug 1, 2006)

I have noticed recently (last few days) several DISH HD channels now showing CC whereas formerly they did not. Primarily my Houston local HD's. I am getting this via ViP622 and HDMI connection. I am pleased.


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## airpolgas (Aug 13, 2002)

retexan599 said:


> I have noticed recently (last few days) several DISH HD channels now showing CC whereas formerly they did not. Primarily my Houston local HD's. I am getting this via ViP622 and HDMI connection. I am pleased.


Gotta check this tonight!!! (Los Angeles locals)


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## bhodgins (Nov 29, 2005)

airpolgas said:


> Gotta check this tonight!!! (Los Angeles locals)


It's working now for the high def Los Angeles channels and the New York high def CBS channel (9483?). It's not 100% stable with the KTTV (Fox) channel, but works pretty good on the other ones.

Hallelujah!


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## guillermopelotas (Oct 9, 2006)

bhodgins said:


> It's working now for the high def Los Angeles channels and the New York high def CBS channel (9483?). It's not 100% stable with the KTTV (Fox) channel, but works pretty good on the other ones.
> 
> Hallelujah!


Noob question for you: How are you able to check the NY CBS? I can only get High Def L.A. CBS (I live in L.A.)


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## dreslism (Nov 14, 2006)

Here is the input I can add on this subject. I am a recently new subscriber, 9/22/06.

My wife is hearing impaired so CC is a must for us. We had CC issues with replay and tivo before, and of course I was assured before I bought the 622 that it worked and worked fine with CC.

Well as you know, no CC on local HD channels. SD channels all have CC fine (glad I bought a new HD tv to watch SD channels on!)

Anyhow, got hooked up with dish's "executive resolution department". 

Through many weeks of frustration, :bang I finally personally spoke with an engineer. They said the issue is that the new mpg4 encoders that they are using don't have the CC software written for them yet. The CC information is like line 21 for SD, but somewhere else in the HD feed, and that Direct TV would also be using the same encoders they would, so no one has CC on local HD channels and they were actively working on getting the software done.

This person is the only one who knew what he was talking about. Everyone else there does not know what they are talking about (as they still to this day continue to tell new or wanting to be new customers that you can only record 1 HD channel and 1 SD channel at a time), and acted like I was a moron. Everytime I called I got a different reason as to why there was no CC. Things from your 622 does not support it, to things like it's the networks who aren't providing it. (I called each local network after that and they all told me BS, they are providing it, it's dish's fault.)

This was about 3 weeks ago.

About 1.5 week ago, CC showed up on all my local HD's. My wife and I were finally happy, but then this past week, it wen't away on ABC HD. We noticed it on sunday night when desperate housewives came on, and it is just gone now from ABC HD. My other local HD's have it.


So, those of you out there with no CC on local HD's, keep checking, it should start showing up.

TNT HD CC is another story, it is way ahead of the video. Anyone have any info on this channel or have complained about it. 


It is VERY frustrating as I am sure most here can agree.

I think about 5% or less of the population use CC, so it is like no big deal when I call dish to tell them this. They act like so what, since it does not affect them.

I filed a formal complaint with the FCC as it is illegal for cable or sat providers to remove CC being broadcast by the networks. Put your OTA ant on and the CC is there. I even informed dish I was going to file the complaint and I got a smartaleck customer rep who just said, go ahead, I don't work in the legal department.

--Scott


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## Eagles (Dec 31, 2003)

dreslism said:


> Here is the input I can add on this subject. I am a recently new subscriber, 9/22/06.
> 
> My wife is hearing impaired so CC is a must for us. We had CC issues with replay and tivo before, and of course I was assured before I bought the 622 that it worked and worked fine with CC.
> 
> ...


I share your pain with this issue. I have been battling Dish with this issue for years going back to the 921 days. 
Your assessment on Dish's priority concerning this issue is right on as far as I'm concerned. For this reason I actually cut them some slack as I can understand their need to satisfy the majority of customers, and set fix priority's accordingly. Based on my experience with Dish, I think they will eventually fix the problem. It just may take some time. Try expressing your concern to [email protected]
They will respond. Hopefully every little complaint will expedite the fix.


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## bhodgins (Nov 29, 2005)

guillermopelotas - I get the CBS HDTV channel because I have the 61.5 dish in addition to the 110/119/129 dish.

Cheers,
Bill


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

For what it's worth, this is one the issues that I still routinely hammer the beta people about with the 622. I haven't let it drop, even though it doesn't look like there's been much movement on it over the past few months.


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## dreslism (Nov 14, 2006)

I had mentioned in my post above that I had actually spoke to someone in engineering about the CC on local HD's, and he told me the issue and that they were working on it. 

CC on my local HD's starting working about 2 weeks ago. So we changed all our timers to stop recording the SD channels and now record the HD channels since they now had the CC.

In this past week, all the CC is now gone again from my local HD channels.

What the heck are they doing?

My wife was finally happy that she could now watch the HD channels that we were paying for. Now we had to switch all our timers back to record the SD channels again and it sucks!

This is the detroit area.

--Scott


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## guillermopelotas (Oct 9, 2006)

bhodgins said:


> guillermopelotas - I get the CBS HDTV channel because I have the 61.5 dish in addition to the 110/119/129 dish.
> 
> Cheers,
> Bill


I meant how is it that you are ALLOWED to get the CBS channel from both coasts?


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## bhodgins (Nov 29, 2005)

I think CBS has an agreement that allows them to do it ... I didn't have to do anything special other than ask for it.


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## guillermopelotas (Oct 9, 2006)

bhodgins said:


> I think CBS has an agreement that allows them to do it ... I didn't have to ado anything special other than ask for it.


What do I need to ask? I requested it, and they said I am ineligible.


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## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

See my thread
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=70839

Please comment there if you too have seen this problem.


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## airpolgas (Aug 13, 2002)

Just an update, this time also on a CBS show (I watch The Unit and How I met your mother), there are instances that the CC will stop working, then after a lengthy pause, maybe more than a minute, I will get it back. Normally, I am watching with CC on, then when I skip the ads, by the time I get back to the show, the CC is missing. When there are instances that I am interrupted, I will pause it, and CC will come back.

I didn't want to test the length of the pause, since it will make my skipping the ads moot. This DOES NOT happen on any other channels as far as I know, just L.A. CBS (002-00).


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## bhodgins (Nov 29, 2005)

^ I have had this happen on the Fox HD channel too


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## dbconsultant (Sep 13, 2005)

airpolgas said:


> Just an update, this time also on a CBS show (I watch The Unit and How I met your mother), there are instances that the CC will stop working, then after a lengthy pause, maybe more than a minute, I will get it back. Normally, I am watching with CC on, then when I skip the ads, by the time I get back to the show, the CC is missing. When there are instances that I am interrupted, I will pause it, and CC will come back.
> 
> I didn't want to test the length of the pause, since it will make my skipping the ads moot. This DOES NOT happen on any other channels as far as I know, just L.A. CBS (002-00).


My husband saw this and occasionally by skipping back once the CC will come back on.


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## jimc_usa (Feb 12, 2007)

I am hard of hearing and since we upgraded to Dish HDTV we have CC on TV2 but not on our LG 42" TV1. The CC option on the tv menu option is greyed out, so I cannot even select it. The other coincidence with the installation of the ViP-622 Receiver is that the TV main front speaker seems to have gone bad. (really bad base sound).
My question is, is it possible that the cables were hooked up wrong by the Dish cable guy? Is it also possible that the TV is set up wrong for the new dvr install.
Thanks people in anticipation of turning my TV sound down again!


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## dreslism (Nov 14, 2006)

jimc_usa said:


> I am hard of hearing and since we upgraded to Dish HDTV we have CC on TV2 but not on our LG 42" TV1. The CC option on the tv menu option is greyed out, so I cannot even select it. The other coincidence with the installation of the ViP-622 Receiver is that the TV main front speaker seems to have gone bad. (really bad base sound).
> My question is, is it possible that the cables were hooked up wrong by the Dish cable guy? Is it also possible that the TV is set up wrong for the new dvr install.
> Thanks people in anticipation of turning my TV sound down again!


Jim,

The reason it is greyed out on the TV is you are not using the TV tuner anymore, you are using component or HDMI inputs to your TV. The CC decoder is build into the TV's tuner, since your're not using the TV tuner, no CC. The CC needs to be fed to the TV via the vip-622. I'm not in front of it right now, but I think it is MENU, then system preferences, the Closed Captioning, then turn it ON.

The reason it works on TV 2 is TV 2 is still using a tuner picking up the signal on like channel 25 or something, so the CC is being decoded by your TV2's tuner.

Welcome to the wonderful world of HD CC. <<-- Sarcasm.

Just fyi you will see CC sometimes and others not. Some HD shows just don't broadcast any CC at all (Foodnetwork HD.. etc.) If it says CC in the guide info, it should be there.

It works on most NON local HD channels, but the local HD channels (cbs, abc, fox, NBC) have the most issues. YOur local HD channels are broadcast via MPEG 4 and dish is still getting their hand around CC coming on MPEG 4. My wife is hard of hearing and before I bought last August, I was ASSURED that CC worked just fine.

We had no CC on local HD channels until December, and it is still not there on ABC.

It was there for about a week, then went away. I spoke with Engineers at dish, they said they were going to replace a part after christmas and all would be well.

They replaced the part, the ABC HD was there, but awful, every other work was there, half cut off words....

I spoke with them and they said OK, we'll fix that. 3 days later it is gone again on ABC only. They are working on it they tell me and trying to determine if it is their issue or the local stations issue. Guess what, when I hook up an over the air antenna, the CC is there and perfect. You tell me who's issue it is based on that.

They have all this info, and still no resolution. Been waiting since last august!

Anyhow, hopefully some of this information will be helpful to you.

--Scott


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## jimc_usa (Feb 12, 2007)

dreslism said:


> Jim,
> 
> The reason it is greyed out on the TV is you are not using the TV tuner anymore, you are using component or HDMI inputs to your TV. The CC decoder is build into the TV's tuner, since your're not using the TV tuner, no CC. The CC needs to be fed to the TV via the vip-622. I'm not in front of it right now, but I think it is MENU, then system preferences, the Closed Captioning, then turn it ON.
> 
> ...


Thank you - I am at work right now and will have to wait until I get home.


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## TulsaOK (Feb 24, 2004)

Eagles said:


> Marc,
> The CC in general on the 622 is very problematic. There is no CC support at this time on Dish HD locals.


My CC works fine on my HD locals. I sometimes use it when the audio drops out. :hurah:


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## jimc_usa (Feb 12, 2007)

dreslism said:


> Jim,
> 
> The reason it is greyed out on the TV is you are not using the TV tuner anymore, you are using component or HDMI inputs to your TV. The CC decoder is build into the TV's tuner, since your're not using the TV tuner, no CC. The CC needs to be fed to the TV via the vip-622. I'm not in front of it right now, but I think it is MENU, then system preferences, the Closed Captioning, then turn it ON.
> 
> ...


Scott - you are thr greatest ( a little extra in your paycheck next week)
All my problems solved, I got CC on all the channels I surfed last night, no more loud TV - Thank you

Edited to add - Last night I recorded The Unit and watched it this morning - no CC


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## airpolgas (Aug 13, 2002)

Hmm, this thread has been dormant since February, but I just had to ressurrect it again because I lost my CC on Fox (24) and NBC (Tonight show), both HD channels in Los Angeles. I remember both shows had CC last week when I watched them.

Am I the only one experiencing this? Is this 4.01 related by any chance? I have to check non-HD channels when I get back home. Thanks.


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## dreslism (Nov 14, 2006)

I'm in the detroit area, and ABC has NEVER worked for me. They finally got the others working in January of this year, but now FOX and NBC are gone for me also.

This is local HD's only for me. (i.e. mpg4 channesl) I'm sure your SD channels are fine.

I can't believe they can't fix this issue. Hook up a OTA for local HD channels and they all work fine.

--Scott


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## rogburr (Oct 24, 2006)

airpolgas said:


> Hmm, this thread has been dormant since February, but I just had to ressurrect it again because I lost my CC on Fox (24) and NBC (Tonight show), both HD channels in Los Angeles. I remember both shows had CC last week when I watched them.
> 
> Am I the only one experiencing this? Is this 4.01 related by any chance? I have to check non-HD channels when I get back home. Thanks.


Hello,

I have the 4.01 release in Sacramento and nothing changed here in terms of CC. Still can't get any CC on Mpeg4 locals from the satellite, while CC on OTA HD locals is fine. I had hoped that this release might provide a fix. Captioning for SD programming is good. Also, captioning on TNTHD disappeared about 10 days ago. DiscoveryHD and TNTHD are not captioned as they are on Comcast and the older Dish 921 DVR.

Are there people that are actually getting usable captioning on local Mpeg4 HD programs? ABC, NBC, CBS, etc., HD programming is good? It all very strange.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Do you get National Geo HD. I believe that is MPEG4. is that showing captioning. I am pretty sure some of the MPEG4 has captioning but I could be wrong.


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## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

rogburr said:


> Hello,
> 
> I have the 4.01 release in Sacramento and nothing changed here in terms of CC. Still can't get any CC on Mpeg4 locals from the satellite, while CC on OTA HD locals is fine. I had hoped that this release might provide a fix. Captioning for SD programming is good. Also, captioning on TNTHD disappeared about 10 days ago. DiscoveryHD and TNTHD are not captioned as they are on Comcast and the older Dish 921 DVR.
> 
> Are there people that are actually getting usable captioning on local Mpeg4 HD programs? ABC, NBC, CBS, etc., HD programming is good? It all very strange.


Although they are a long way from getting it right, I have seen some improvement in CC. For one thing I saved a show which use to cause a reboot with CC on. It now does not. Some CC is a bit more reliable. Still see lots of CC break up on one of my DISH HD locals, but the others seem to mostly work (NYC). Still clearly missing CC on some shows channels such as those rogburr mentioned. And if they work on Dish 921 (I no longer have one and can't test) then something really stupid is occuring with the 622.


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## rogburr (Oct 24, 2006)

Ron Barry said:


> Do you get National Geo HD. I believe that is MPEG4. is that showing captioning. I am pretty sure some of the MPEG4 has captioning but I could be wrong.


 Hi,

Yes, I just noticed a few days ago that National Geo HD has captioning. I gave up on it because it appeared that the lines were rolling up, so you had to read from bottom up. Today, the captioning appeared to roll down as it should. It appears that some MPEG4 programming has captions. If so, why not all? It is all very confusing.

I'm going to check in with the HR20 DVR people over in the D* area. There were a lot of captioning problems with this new DVR, but it appears that most of them have been fixed over several software releases. My main thrust will be to find out if MPEG4 stuff is now working on the HR20. Trying to prove to myself that it is a solvable problem.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

I am sure it is a solvable problem rogburr, but I also think the problem can be both Stream related and could also be 622 related. Tough part is figuring out what is 622 related and what is stream related.


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## dreslism (Nov 14, 2006)

Ron Barry said:


> I am sure it is a solvable problem rogburr, but I also think the problem can be both Stream related and could also be 622 related. Tough part is figuring out what is 622 related and what is stream related.


CC is a HUGE issue with me as my wife is hearing impaired. I have been fighting this issue with them ever since I became a customer last september, after I was assured that closed captioning worked just fine on the 622.

I have been in direct contact via email and phone calls with engineers.

I mean to me it is not that hard to figure out. I hook up a stupid $12 set of rabbit ears, and the OTA CC on the local HD is dead perfect. Flip to the satellite local HD channel and it is not there at all, or it is there and garbled.

Put on the SD channel and it's also perfect. So right now I am paying for a service (HD) that I cannot use since the CC is NOT there.

Very frustrating.

--Scott


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## airpolgas (Aug 13, 2002)

Yup. As mentioned earlier, my SD channels has CC. I also watched the recorded Prison Break, and it has CC as well, although a bit late, so we had to turn it off. I thought I'd mention this small detail because my last posting is about 24, which recorded after Prison Break on the same channel.

24 no CC
PB with CC

Really weird.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

dreslism said:


> CC is a HUGE issue with me as my wife is hearing impaired. I have been fighting this issue with them ever since I became a customer last september, after I was assured that closed captioning worked just fine on the 622.
> 
> I have been in direct contact via email and phone calls with engineers.
> 
> ...


Yes from an end user perspective.. It am sure it is not difficult to figure out. But there is a lot of equipement between the 622 and the content. In the case of MPEG-4 streams a lot of this is new equipement. From my vantage point, alot of the CC issues are a result of the paradigm shift from MPEG-2 to MPEG-4 combined with going from SD to HD. Yeah I know there are some MPEG-2 streams not showing them.. but Most of the posts I have read seem MPEG-4 related.

I know it does not make things any better. Definitely at this point a mixed back. I did check some of my channels the other day and I did notice an improvement in my area. As to the 622's involvement.. I could be wrong, but my gut tells me that most of these issues are stream based.. I could totally be wrong, but since it seems to do a good job with the default settings on other streams than there is a strong possibility that the stream is not coming in correctly. Ofcourse, there is also the possiblity that something in one stream confuses the 622 while the other stream does not contain the confusing part.

Well my hope it is stream based because that does not require and update to fix, but the down side is that if it is then the problem is not localized to the software in the 622 and that could make fixing this issue a long process with gradual improvement. Time will tell what type it is..


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## olguy (Jan 9, 2006)

For what it's worth, I noticed today that I was getting CC on all my Houston locals. I used to only get CC on the CBS and NBC affiliates but today was getting it on ABC and FOX as well. Maybe they weren't in MPEG4 today because I still couldn't get CC on a lot of the other HD channels.


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## rogburr (Oct 24, 2006)

olguy said:


> For what it's worth, I noticed today that I was getting CC on all my Houston locals. I used to only get CC on the CBS and NBC affiliates but today was getting it on ABC and FOX as well. Maybe they weren't in MPEG4 today because I still couldn't get CC on a lot of the other HD channels.


I'm in Sacramento and don't get CC on any local HD channels. Most of the HD channels on Dish are not required to provide captioning because new channels are given a four year period by the FCC before the requirement clicks in. Thus, none of the Voom channels have CC. Channels where I do get CC are: ESPN, ESPN2, National Geographic, HDNET and HDNET Movies. Used to get CC on TNTHD but they went away a couple of months ago; maybe switched over to MPEG4. Used to get CC on DiscoveryHD and TNTHD when I was with Comcast.

Dish is well behind other providers in providing CC on their HD channels. I hear the D* is having some success with CC on MPEG4 channels, but have not totally solved the problems. If your locals are MPEG4, it means that Dish has also made some progress, but why am I not getting CC here in Sacramento. Also, heard that Dish is moving all HD programming to MPEG4 soon and I am afraid that I will no longer get any HD captioning with Dish as I have no confidence that they will ever solve this CC/MPEG4 problem. Maybe the two technologies are totally incompatible.

Other than your locals, what HD channels do you have that are captioned?


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## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

I don't know our 622 does show the local HD channels with CC in Sacramento, the problem is CC seems to go away everyday, only a front power reset may bring it back, sometimes need more than one reset action.

This is very frustrating, we need CC at night while we try to keep the TV volume down. I called E* a few times they admitted a bulletin out on the CC issue just no fix yet and no ETA on a fix.

I am at the point I might have to switch back to Comcast.


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## retexan599 (Aug 1, 2006)

I receive 31 HD channels via DISH ViP622. Of these, 9 provide me with Closed Caption at this time. A few months ago it was only 6, so a couple more. As to the local (Houston) HD channels, I currently see CC on NBC and ABC, but not CBS; a few months ago CBS had CC, but ABC did not, looks like it can come and go. Also, the local FOX HD is showing CC at this time, and HGHD also new CC lately. And there is now FSN SW HD which includes CC (nice for the baseball games). 

My HD channels with CC: FSNSW, ABC, NBC, FOX, HDNET, HDMV, ESPN, ESPN2, HGHD (and sometimes CBS). 

What I would really like is a 'one-button' Closed Caption toggle from the remote; anyone think there is a chance of this happening anytime soon? 

Since, with the ViP622, muting is only a function of the TV, the Mute button on the receiver remote is a dead button for me; wonder why it couldn't be made into a CC toggle?


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Because the mute button can be made to mute the AV receiver. Mine does.


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## AVJohnnie (Jul 27, 2004)

Perhaps an “Enable CC on mute button press” sub-option toggle to the CC setting in the configuration menu. Many TV brands offer a simular option.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

The problem is that I don't think the mute button sends the any signal to the 622 only the TV or Aux device I believe. Also to accomplish the CC on Mute functionality it would have to send both a mute signal to the AV Receiver/TV and a discrete CC on/off to the 622. 

One of the Wish list items was CC discrete codes and offering a remote with a CC toggle button. I think that is the ultimate solution to this issue.


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## AVJohnnie (Jul 27, 2004)

Ron Barry said:


> The problem is that I don't think the mute button sends the any signal to the 622 only the TV or Aux device I believe.


Oops - Thanks for pointing that out Ron - I should have realized that fact, had I only stopped to think about it for a moment. Still, there are a number of buttons already doing dual or multiple duty based on press count and on-screen context location. I would think the Page Up/Dn buttons could easily be assigned this function (CC on / CC off) while in viewing mode - as they (currently) seem to have no other purpose at that time - and thereby avoiding the necessity of a replacement remote just to incorporate a CC button.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

That might be a possibility and a work around for current remotes. But long run for usability sake I really think a CC toggle button would be helpful.


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## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

Ron Barry said:


> That might be a possibility and a work around for current remotes. But long run for usability sake I really think a CC toggle button would be helpful.


But that wouldn't address the issue of CC going away every day on its own.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

No it would not... Personally I have not seen CC going away ever day but then again I only use the feature when someone mentions they are seeing an issue. 

The other factor with CC support on the 622 is that in terms of HD locals people are seeing various degrees of support. My guess is that this might be related to the fact that the HD locals are MPEG4 so both the front end and back end of the pipe is fairly new technology that is still being flushed out.

Is the HD locals your only ones that disappear or are all CC disappearing each night? If this is the case, I would email dishquality with specifics.


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## olguy (Jan 9, 2006)

I solved the problem of one button CC. I have a Harmony 550 remote and have a CC activity set up that does all the button pushes for me. Still have to point it toward the box while it does it but I don't have to push all the buttons,


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## donmurray (Dec 15, 2006)

I haven't looked into the issue of some channels not showing CC, but my complaint is that CC is enabled on V1, but will drop out sometime later. A reboot always brings is back. This would imply that the software code is there, but a hardware/software bug is causing it to drop. Should not take months to fix.


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## bhodgins (Nov 29, 2005)

One thing I've noticed ... if you leave TV2 on for a while with TV1 off, CC gets messed up on TV1 until you reboot the 622. 

When the CC is messed up, you will see CC on TV1 during the playing of the logo screen saver (while TV1 is "off"), but then the CC disappears when you turn TV1 back on.


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