# Microsoft Surface



## naijai

Microsoft reveals its own Windows 8 tablet: meet the new Surface for Windows RT

Microsoft announces Surface for Windows 8 Pro: Intel inside, optional pen input

Microsoft Surface tablets: the differences between Windows RT and Windows 8 Pro models

*Surface for Windows RT tablet*
•Processor: NVIDIA-made ARM chip
•Weight: 676 grams
•Thickness: 9.3 millimeters
•Display: 10.6-inch ClearType HD capactive touch panel
•Battery: 31.5Wh
•I/O: microSDXC, USB 2.0, Micro HD Video, 2x2 MIMO antennae
•Software: Windows RT + Office Home & Student 2013 RT
•Accessories: Touch Cover, Type Cover, VaporMg Case & Stand
•Capacity: 32GB / 64GB
•Availability: 10/26/2012 
•Pricing: Starting at $499

*Surface for Windows 8 Pro tablet*
•Processor: 3rd Gen Intel Core i5 Processor with Intel HD Graphics 4000, 4GB RAM-Dual Channel Memory
•Weight: 903 grams
•Thickness: 13.5 millimeters
•Display: 10.6" ClearType Full HD Display, 1920x1080 pixels, 16:9 (widescreen), 10-point multi-touch 
•Battery: 42W-h
•I/O: microSDXC, Full-size USB 3.0, Mini DisplayPort, 2x2 MIMO antennae
•Software: Windows 8 Pro
•Accessories: Touch Cover, Type Cover, VaporMg Case & Stand, Pen with Palm Block
•Capacity: 64GB / 128GB
Cameras and A/V: Two 720p HD LifeCams, front- and rear-facing with TruColor, Microphone, Stereo speakers
•Availability: "Three months after" the Windows 8 launch this fall
•Pricing: To be determined


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## P Smith

It's MS response to Apple (iPad + iOS6) ... each one want own slice of the multi $B pie.


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## Marlin Guy

Way too little and WAY too late.


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## P Smith

Will see .. the market will judge.


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## djlong

What will it cost? [We won't tell you]
When will it be available? [We won't tell you - other than 'fall' and '3 months after']
How long will the battery last? [We won't tell you]

The event WAS hastily arranged. Make no mistake, I work all day in Visual Studio and would LOVE a successful MS tablet so I wouldn't have to learn another ecosystem to write apps for (been tempted to pick up a VB-like language that makes iOS apps).

I just think MS is too late to the party and that the next version of the Kindle Fire will suck up most of the "not-an-iPad" tablet market.


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## wingrider01

P Smith said:


> Will see .. the market will judge.


Agree, since we have had very little headway in the the hardware addons that where needed for the Ipad, and with the announcement of this device that actually has what we need the project of replacing all of the palm's in the hazmat enclosures have been put on hold until we can get our hands on a few dozen of these for the R&D people to play with and tear apart.


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## dmspen

I think the Surface will appeal to Windows Phone and Xbox users. It's supposed to integrate with both. Too late? perhaps to get a lion's share, but it will be welcomed in the Windows world.


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## braven

The consumers are the winners. I love competition.


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## hilmar2k

Well, it's not an Apple, so it has that going for it.....


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## naijai

dmspen said:


> I think the Surface will appeal to Windows Phone and Xbox users. It's supposed to integrate with both. Too late? perhaps to get a lion's share, but it will be welcomed in the Windows world.


I am a full on windows user and I am happy to finally to have a Tablet/Laptop Hybrid and that usb connector really helps a lot for add-ons. 
I know that it's not going to topple iPad as the tablet king but if priced near the iPad i don't see android putting up much of fight. 
I eventually (Jan 2013) will have all Windows 8 devices, Phone, Laptop (maybe get rid of my iPad) ,Desktop and then XBOX as well .


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## RasputinAXP

dmspen said:


> I think the Surface will appeal to Windows Phone and Xbox users. It's supposed to integrate with both. Too late? perhaps to get a lion's share, but it will be welcomed in the Windows world.


And, you know, Windows users, because the high end one is...a laptop.


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## Stuart Sweet

I guess the open question for me today is... what are Dell, HP and that crowd going to do. Desktops are a pretty dead market and laptops are heading there too. if Microsoft makes its own tablet it may completely bypass the other manufacturers rather than creating a reference design and letting others build off it. 

Microsoft did this for the Zune and it pretty much killed Creative, who used to be the #2 maker of MP3 players (#1 in the WMA player market.) If they put out the Microsoft-branded tablet it may not sit real well for Microsoft's hardware partners and if Google embraces them... that could be interesting.


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## naijai

Stuart Sweet said:


> I guess the open question for me today is... what are Dell, HP and that crowd going to do. Desktops are a pretty dead market and laptops are heading there too. if Microsoft makes its own tablet it may completely bypass the other manufacturers rather than creating a reference design and letting others build off it.
> 
> Microsoft did this for the Zune and it pretty much killed Creative, who used to be the #2 maker of MP3 players (#1 in the WMA player market.) If they put out the Microsoft-branded tablet it may not sit real well for Microsoft's hardware partners and if Google embraces them... that could be interesting.


I'd say it would make sure that they come out with devices that are better than what they have on the market now. They need to be ready to adapt to survive & meet the demands of the market. If they want a piece of that market, they had better prove it. They can make better devices than what Microsoft puts out on the market; The question is if they will; The ball is now in their court, step up and quit pouting or shut up.


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## Cholly

In my mind, the Surface Pro is a likely winner in the marketplace, particularly if the price is competitive. With a 1920 x 1080 display, mini HDMI connector, USB 3.0, excellent memory options, micro SDXC, Thunderbolt I/O and optional cover with improved keyboard it becomes a worthy competitor to the MacBook Pro. Add to this, MS Office and you have a killer machine.


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## P Smith

That's appealing, we need to wait for the price's announcement. That would kill all desire ... or not.


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## Stuart Sweet

And that's the other part of all of this. All the media reviews say the same thing: they weren't able to use it. If the Pro tablet is really going to be a laptop replacement, it has to have not just a usable keyboard but an excellent one. There are several excellent ones for the iPad and presumably Microsoft will just use an open Bluetooth spec for the keyboard interface (why wouldn't they) so that if their miracle keyboard cover works more like an Atari 400, other people can pick up the slack.

I would love to go all tablet... attach a keyboard and display to it when docked and take it with me when I travel (as I currently do with my laptop.) But of course it has to be usable.


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## Rich

Stuart Sweet said:


> And that's the other part of all of this. All the media reviews say the same thing: they weren't able to use it. If the Pro tablet is really going to be a laptop replacement, it has to have not just a usable keyboard but an excellent one. There are several excellent ones for the iPad and presumably Microsoft will just use an open Bluetooth spec for the keyboard interface (why wouldn't they) so that if their miracle keyboard cover works more like an Atari 400, other people can pick up the slack.
> 
> I would love to go all tablet... attach a keyboard and display to it when docked and take it with me when I travel (as I currently do with my laptop.) But of course it has to be usable.


Yet another interesting gizmo I have no use for. Frustrating.

Rich


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## farmerdave4

If you can't get apps developers on board before its released it may be DOA when it does like when HP Palm tablet was released. It will have to be really cheap before many will even try it.

I got rid of my win phone over a year ago because very few apps. I don't see myself leaving android phone/tablets anytime soon.


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## hilmar2k

farmerdave4 said:


> If you can't get apps developers on board before its released it may be DOA when it does like when HP Palm tablet was released. It will have to be really cheap before many will even try it.
> 
> I got rid of my win phone over a year ago because very few apps. I don't see myself leaving android phone/tablets anytime soon.


It runs Windows, so programs...not apps.  Like all of the Windows programs that exist today. I doubt it will be an issue.


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## billsharpe

Microsoft makes excellent keyboards, although from what I've seen from pictures of the Surface cover/keyboard this unit may not be in the same category. I've been using an MS wireless keyboard for over four years.

Pricing is the big question mark. How much and is the cover/keyboard extra?


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## Stuart Sweet

hilmar2k said:


> It runs Windows, so programs...not apps.  Like all of the Windows programs that exist today. I doubt it will be an issue.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it true that only the "Pro" version will run legacy Windows programs, while both versions will run Metro apps? Of which, again correct me if I'm wrong, isn't it true there are about 15 of those in existence?


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## hilmar2k

Stuart Sweet said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it true that only the "Pro" version will run legacy Windows programs, while both versions will run Metro apps? Of which, again correct me if I'm wrong, isn't it true there are about 15 of those in existence?


Yeah, I believe that is correct. Only the Pro version would have any interest to me, and only if it could be a laptop replacement for me (which was a desktop replacement itself).


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## dpeters11

"hilmar2k" said:


> Yeah, I believe that is correct. Only the Pro version would have any interest to me, and only if it could be a laptop replacement for me (which was a desktop replacement itself).


Right, the other version runs on an ARM processor, so only programs compiled for it will work. The normal APIs don't work.


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## Cholly

During the press presentation, a second, extra cost, better keyboard and cover option was announced. I don't recall the details. There's quite a bit of information about the two models on the TWiT live special #129 from Tuesday.


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## jdskycaster

The Pro will be at a significant premium to the iPad and everyone will complain that it is too expensive even thought it will be s technologically superior device. Microsoft is targeting the commercial market because Apple continues to ignore it. Manageability, security things that matter to companies that have thousands of devices with data that matters to their business.

The surface is also Microsoft jumpstarting the Windows 8 tablet space. They want to show what can be done in hopes that Dell, HP and others will create products as well. I think this is the right direction for Microsoft and those that think a new tablet is late to the party are wrong. There is a massive untapped market that would love a device that could actually replace something else rather than just add yet another battery that needs recharging to the ever increasing stack. 

I sat next to a high school grad travelling overseas on a summer mission trip. He was fumbling with an ipad, iphone and imac at different intervals throughout the trip. This marketing angle may be something apple can continue to heave onto a new generation but only for so long. At some point everyone will become tired of multiple devices that become obsolete on an never ending 8 month cycle.


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## billsharpe

jdskycaster said:


> I sat next to a high school grad travelling overseas on a summer mission trip. He was fumbling with an ipad, iphone and imac at different intervals throughout the trip. This marketing angle may be something apple can continue to heave onto a new generation but only for so long. At some point everyone will become tired of multiple devices that become obsolete on an never ending 8 month cycle.


My iPod Touch is far from obsolete after two years.


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## phrelin

You know, I've never had my iPad crash and I've never had a Windows machine that didn't.

But Microsoft didn't make the hardware. This could be interesting for an old guy who reluctantly gave up TRS-DOS for MS-DOS and has used a Microsoft OS ever since.


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## jdskycaster

billsharpe said:


> My iPod Touch is far from obsolete after two years.


The fact that you are still using an ipod touch after two years and not an iphone or ipad or both is explanation enough.


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## braven

hilmar2k said:


> Well, it's not an Apple, so it has that going for it.....


Yeah but it's Microsoft. ~shudder~


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## Cholly

Another thought about the Surface Pro: at roughly a half inch thick and weighing close to two pounds, it's more likely to compete against Ultrabooks than the iPad.


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## Drew2k

If the Surface Pro was available in the next month, I may be considering it... but the fall?

The hinge hardware on my laptop display is starting to fail, to the point where I can't flip the display down now without the case separating at the seams around the display. The laptop is 4 years 1 month old (and I upgraded it from XP to Win7 Ultimate) and I'm definitely overdue for an upgrade, but do I want another laptop?

I'm an Android guy and love my Ice Cream Sandwich tablet, but I still need a Windows machine primarily for Quicken and MS Office plus Visio and some other development software, so the Surface Pro with the add-n keyboard could be a really nice option. I just hope my current laptop display lasts until the fall ...


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## dpeters11

The RT based one is Fall. The one using Pro is after that by several months.


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## Drew2k

I thought I read the Pro would be out before Christmas, so as long as it's out before 12/21 I guess that's still "fall"! 

If it's not out until after Christmas, MS is just wasting my time with a half-year tease!


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## billsharpe

jdskycaster said:


> The fact that you are still using an ipod touch after two years and not an iphone or ipad or both is explanation enough.


I never mentioned an iPad in my post, but I do have an iPad2. I do not own a smartphone at all. iPod fits in my pocket; iPad does not. Nuff said...


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## TBoneit

phrelin said:


> You know, I've never had my iPad crash and I've never had a Windows machine that didn't.
> 
> But Microsoft didn't make the hardware. This could be interesting for an old guy who reluctantly gave up TRS-DOS for MS-DOS and has used a Microsoft OS ever since.


phrelin, Knock wood, However I can't recall the last time I had one of my windows machines crash.

My work Windows XP Pro computer did crash, I replaced the bad memory and it works reliable every day too.

The two Point of sale computers here run XP and they run 24 hours a day. The last time one of them went down was a hardware failure, I replaced the bad capacitors on the motherboard and it was back up and running an hour later. The other one never went down but I replaced the power supply since the fan was getting noisy.

I blame the the fact that they are reliable on shutting them down, except the point of sale computers and the servers (run 24 -7, no problems), each night, quality components and brands, blowing the dust out and only using Intel CPUs.


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## braven

Drew2k said:


> If the Surface Pro was available in the next month, I may be considering it... but the fall?
> 
> The hinge hardware on my laptop display is starting to fail, to the point where I can't flip the display down now without the case separating at the seams around the display. The laptop is 4 years 1 month old (and I upgraded it from XP to Win7 Ultimate) and I'm definitely overdue for an upgrade, but do I want another laptop?
> 
> I'm an Android guy and love my Ice Cream Sandwich tablet, but I still need a Windows machine primarily for Quicken and MS Office plus Visio and some other development software, so the Surface Pro with the add-n keyboard could be a really nice option. I just hope my current laptop display lasts until the fall ...


Curious. Is it an HP laptop? I had an HP that did the exact same thing.


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## phrelin

TBoneit said:


> phrelin, Knock wood, However I can't recall the last time I had one of my windows machines crash.
> 
> My work Windows XP Pro computer did crash, I replaced the bad memory and it works reliable every day too.
> 
> The two Point of sale computers here run XP and they run 24 hours a day. The last time one of them went down was a hardware failure, I replaced the bad capacitors on the motherboard and it was back up and running an hour later. The other one never went down but I replaced the power supply since the fan was getting noisy.
> 
> I blame the the fact that they are reliable on shutting them down, except the point of sale computers and the servers (run 24 -7, no problems), each night, quality components and brands, blowing the dust out and only using Intel CPUs.


I'm overstating it - these aren't total system crashes, just software "not responding" and occasionally crashing Windows Explorer. We do more ctrl-alt-del to run Windows Task Manager than we should. I'd like to blame the problems in our household on components. But it is the combinations of old versions of software, hardware settings, registry problems, etc., that we use.

And actually, after one OS upgrade my iPad Safari would just close on me.


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## Drew2k

braven said:


> Curious. Is it an HP laptop? I had an HP that did the exact same thing.


Yes. An HP Pavilion. I'm happy I had 4+ years out of it, but I was hoping to pass this on to someone else in the family and with the display panel/hinge area as weak as it is I might just scrap it.


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## Rich

Drew2k said:


> Yes. An HP Pavilion. I'm happy I had 4+ years out of it, but I was hoping to pass this on to someone else in the family and with the display panel/hinge area as weak as it is I might just scrap it.


That actually sounds fixable. *TBoneit* should be able to give you an idea if it's fixable.

Rich


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## Chris Blount

IHMO, Microsoft is already making mistakes. First, if they have something to sell, then sell it. The presentation had no pricing information and no definitive release date. At least with Apple, they tell you how much it's going to cost and when it will be available. Microsoft really needs to get their ducks in a row when it comes to marketing.

On top of all that, the device crashed during the presentation.






The Surface looks pretty cool and I will definitely be looking at one, but as of right now, I'm very cautious.


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## Scott Kocourek

I feel sorry for that guy, it looked like it froze up when he was showing the first screen shot.

Pathetic.


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## naijai

Scott Kocourek said:


> I feel sorry for that guy, it looked like it froze up when he was showing the first screen shot.
> 
> Pathetic.


I would be annoyed but at least we know it's a pre-production model with RC version of Win 8. Hopefully they have all the bugs worked out prior to release. Same thing happened on my iPad, right in the middle of my game


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## naijai

So did anyone pre-order one or is anyone planning on getting one ?
www.surface.com


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## P Smith

nay


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## wingrider01

naijai said:


> So did anyone pre-order one or is anyone planning on getting one ?
> www.surface.com


Have 15 of them on order to pilot a converted application from the ipad to the windows 8 to get back to a single devloper suite and source


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## dpeters11

I'll probably check it out when our Microsoft store opens next month. Too bad the Apple Store moved back to their normal location, their temporary store they had while they were renovating was next door to where Microsoft will be.


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## RasputinAXP

naijai said:


> So did anyone pre-order one or is anyone planning on getting one ?
> www.surface.com


Boss-boss preordered two, one for him and one for me.

I'm the new-gear-testing guru for the university.


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## Stuart Sweet

I'll pass on it for now, I'm not convinced. Of course I wasn't impressed at all with the first iPad either. 

To me it seems that the RT version simply doesn't have the app support with about 1% of the apps that iPad runs, and the full Win8 version is quite expensive. Overall I feel like Win8 won't get real adoption for 2-3 years. It's simply not a good value proposition for businesses, due to its steep learning curve and reliance on touch (which isn't really a big seller for desktops.) 

Microsoft has made things harder for themselves by calling Windows RT by that name, because it doesn't run any current Windows apps. I know, Windows Phone doesn't either, but there aren't two visually identical devices, one that runs Win7 programs and one that doesn't. Big concern there. 

Finally, until I read a review that says, "the touch cover actually works well enough to use it every day," I must presume that it doesn't.


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## njblackberry

Passing on the RT version and will wait for Pro...


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## Steve

Stuart Sweet said:


> Finally, until I read a review that says, "the touch cover actually works well enough to use it every day," I must presume that it doesn't.


I think the "Type" cover might be a winner for touch typists, but you're either going to pay $629 for a 32GB model with an optional Type cover, or $829 for a 64GB with a Type cover. That's because you can't order a 64GB Surface for $100 less _without _a Touch cover, like you can with the 32GB. D'oh!

And if the keyboard is that important, $629-$829 can get you a really nice laptop. :shrug:


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## Stuart Sweet

In fact, $500 can get you all the business desktop you're going to need, and businesses still run on desktops.


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## naijai

I'm waiting waiting for the Surface Pro but the Asus Taichi  has gotten my attention just for the cool factor.


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## naijai

The first reviews are in for the Surface RT

Engadget Surface RT Review 

Gizmodo Surface RT Review

PC Mag Surface RT Review

BGR Surface RT Review


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## Nick

naijai said:


> I'm waiting waiting for the Surface Pro but the Asus Taichi  has gotten my attention just for the cool factor.


I dunno...


> "1. Actual battery life varies with United Statesge. Operation
> lifetime subject to product model, normal United Statesge
> conditions, and configurations."


...if Asus can't write two sentences, how can we trust them to make a tablet?


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## The Merg

"Nick" said:


> I dunno......if Asus can't write two sentences, how can we trust them to make a tablet?


Looking at that, I think that's AutoCorrect at work... USAge... Becomes UNITED STATESge... :lol:

- Merg


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## naijai

"Nick" said:


> I dunno......if Asus can't write two sentences, how can we trust them to make a tablet?


The mistake happened twice, with the same spelling error. I agree it's autocorrect or translation error. I still want one


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## djlong

Asus has been winning top marks in reliability when it comes to laptops (along with Lenovo and Toshiba). I don't think an overeager autocorrect would have a big impact on that


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## Nick

djlong said:


> Asus has been winning top marks in reliability when it comes to laptops (along with Lenovo and Toshiba). I don't think an overeager autocorrect would have a big impact on that


"overeager autocorrect" :lol: :hurah:


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## Laxguy

It looks more like a macro that expanded "US", and that auto correct, if any, didn't work as there's no such word as "Statesge". No telling where the "a" in "usage" went! 

I use macros a lot:

After three years of therapy my psychiatrist said something that brought tears to my eyes. He said, "No hablo inglés, Señor."


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## The Merg

Laxguy said:


> It looks more like a macro that expanded "US", and that auto correct, if any, didn't work as there's no such word as "Statesge". No telling where the "a" in "usage" went!
> 
> I use macros a lot:
> 
> After three years of therapy my psychiatrist said something that brought tears to my eyes. He said, "No hablo inglés, Señor."


That's why I think USA became UNITED STATES.

As for your quote there... I get a kick at work when I am having a converstaion for about 5 minutes with someone in Spanish and all of a sudden they tell me that they don't speak English and don't understand. Ummm... I haven't been speaking to you in English... :lol:

- Merg


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## dettxw

I was in BB Monday and they had a functional ASUS RT tablet on display. 
Not sure if it was in stock or for sale, because I didn't bother to find out after checking out the new tablet. The hardware looked good but all those colored squares, reminded me of a video game for toddlers.
Went ahead and bought an ASUS Transformer Infinity (follow up to the Transformer Prime).


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## dettxw

GF's son wants an RT tablet for Christmas so looked at the ASUS and Microsoft offerings.
You can get the ASUS Vivo tablet with a free Transformer-type keyboard for less than the Microsoft tablet with the flexible magnetic keyboard. 
Bought him the ASUS as the keyboard seems more functional with it's latop-type clamshell setup vs a flexible keyboard that must be flat on a desk to really use. 
Other ASUS advantages are a better screen, GPS, NFC, and two batteries (one in the tablet itself and another in the keyboard) besides the lower price and more functional keyboard. 
The reviewers like CNET and PCMAG all seem to like the Microsoft tablet a bit better though the only real reason seems to be the magnetic snap-on of the keyboard.


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## austen0316

I have the Surface and I personally like it better. The hardware feels better built then the asus. The touch keyboard is great. Updates may come first to the surface, but not sure on that.


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## dettxw

austen0316 said:


> I have the Surface and I personally like it better. The hardware feels better built then the asus. The touch keyboard is great. Updates may come first to the surface, but not sure on that.


Oh I'll probably be in trouble for getting him the ASUS over the Surface.
It just didn't see trying to sit on a dorm room bed and trying to type on the Surface' flexible keyboard.


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## naijai

Microsoft Surface Pro available as of Feb 9 2013 
Starting at $899 for 64GB Version


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## Laxguy

AT the store set up they copied from somewhere??


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## P Smith

Isn't the 64 GB is NAND memory chip(s) ?

How easy to fool customers with the size and double/triple a price of same device.

To estimate a real price's difference just pick USB flash drive of the size (sans a cost of PCB, a controller, housing and USB connector).


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## naijai

So did anyone pick up the Surface RT or Pro and have their own personal reviews on the devices.


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## wingrider01

naijai said:


> So did anyone pick up the Surface RT or Pro and have their own personal reviews on the devices.


We have 20 of them in the devlopers hands to migrate a EDC app that is currently running on a Ipad to the surface, have heard nothing but good from the people in development, testing, quality assurance and validation on the devices


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## hdtvfan0001

naijai said:


> Microsoft Surface Pro available as of Feb 9 2013
> Starting at $899 for 64GB Version


Seriously? $900 for a tablet with a Sesame Street User Interface?

I'm sure they'll have to hold back the herd of people rushing to get them.

Maybe they'll have an app for it called Tickle Me Surface.


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## hilmar2k

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Seriously? $900 for a tablet with a Sesame Street User Interface?
> 
> I'm sure they'll have to hold back the herd of people rushing to get them.
> 
> Maybe they'll have an app for it called Tickle Me Surface.


Uh, it sold out everywhere immediately. It my not be selling like an iPad, but it most certainly selling.

And Windows 8 is nowhere near as bad as some make it out to be. I bought my wife a laptop with it and she really likes it, and I find it to be much better than I thought I would. I think I still prefer Windows 7, but that's probably because her laptop is not a touch screen.


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## djlong

Don't read too much into those "sellout" stories. Lots of stores are reporting they got one or NO 128GB units. It's easy to claim 'sold out' when you didn't ship that many.


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## hdtvfan0001

hilmar2k said:


> Uh, it sold out everywhere immediately. It my not be selling like an iPad, but it most certainly selling.





djlong said:


> Don't read too much into those "sellout" stories. Lots of stores are reporting they got one or NO 128GB units. It's easy to claim 'sold out' when you didn't ship that many.


Indeed.


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## hdtvfan0001

hilmar2k said:


> And Windows 8 is nowhere near as bad as some make it out to be.


I recall similar observations from folks when Windows Me and Vista were released.


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## dpeters11

hilmar2k;3179595 said:


> Uh, it sold out everywhere immediately. It my not be selling like an iPad, but it most certainly selling.
> 
> And Windows 8 is nowhere near as bad as some make it out to be. I bought my wife a laptop with it and she really likes it, and I find it to be much better than I thought I would. I think I still prefer Windows 7, but that's probably because her laptop is not a touch screen.


You're right, windows 8 isn't that bad, at least without doing much in the Metro UI. However I do use Start8. I have a server with the metro interface, and I'm glad that once I get it up and running, I'll really only need to log into it once. Month or so.


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## hilmar2k

djlong;3179605 said:


> Don't read too much into those "sellout" stories. Lots of stores are reporting they got one or NO 128GB units. It's easy to claim 'sold out' when you didn't ship that many.


While that's true, there are also a lot of people that are upset about the lack of inventory who wanted to but couldn't buy it. Either way, demand is there for it.


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## Cholly

Folks over at LiveScience.com did a battery life test on the Surface Pro and came up with a result of 4 hours and 37 minutes, compared to an Ipad's 12 hours and 22 minutes.
Not very good results for a tablet.
http://news.yahoo.com/7-worst-battery-life-guzzling-gadgets-162947696.html


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## hilmar2k

Cholly said:


> Folks over at LiveScience.com did a battery life test on the Surface Pro and came up with a result of 4 hours and 37 minutes, compared to an Ipad's 12 hours and 22 minutes.
> Not very good results for a tablet.
> http://news.yahoo.com/7-worst-battery-life-guzzling-gadgets-162947696.html


That's a terrible comparison. The iPad is not a direct competitor. The iPad is useless to many business customers. Other than form factor, there is really no comparison.

Put a real processor in the iPad and see how long it lasts.


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## njblackberry

Try editing a PowerPoint presentation on an iPad...


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## hdtvfan0001

njblackberry said:


> Try editing a PowerPoint presentation on an iPad...


That gets done here from time to time on my Android tablet.

I'm sure Surface supports it too.


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## lparsons21

hilmar2k said:


> That's a terrible comparison. The iPad is not a direct competitor. The iPad is useless to many business customers. Other than form factor, there is really no comparison.
> 
> Put a real processor in the iPad and see how long it lasts.


Then if you don't like that comparison, compare it to a MacBook Air.

But whatever you compare it to, that is pathetic times.


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## hilmar2k

lparsons21 said:


> Then if you don't like that comparison, compare it to a MacBook Air.
> 
> But whatever you compare it to, that is pathetic times.


Find me another tablet running a real processor with a real OS that has a significantly better battery. That means nothing running iOS or Android, and nothing with an Atom, ARM, etc.


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## lparsons21

hilmar2k said:


> Find me another tablet running a real processor with a real OS that has a significantly better battery. That means nothing running iOS or Android, and nothing with an Atom, ARM, etc.


The SurfacePro is nothing but a laptop with a touch screen, no more, no less.

those battery times are pathetic and are in line with my $350 i3 powered Acer laptop on its very best days of minimal use.

When all the dust settles, the SurfaceRT and Pro will be in the rear view mirror to all these others out there from Apple and android powered stuff.


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## hilmar2k

lparsons21 said:


> The SurfacePro is nothing but a laptop with a touch screen, no more, no less.
> 
> those battery times are pathetic and are in line with my $350 i3 powered Acer laptop on its very best days of minimal use.
> 
> When all the dust settles, the SurfaceRT and Pro will be in the rear view mirror to all these others out there from Apple and android powered stuff.


They may be in the rear view mirror, but it will be to other Core iX machines running Windows. The bottom line is that for business, a tablet needs to be running a real OS, and needs a real processor. You just can't have 8-10 hour run-time with that horsepower in a tablet form factor.

Unlike the iPad, the Surface Pro isn't for playing Angry Birds and watching YouTube videos. It's a business machine that does things the iPad can't. The iPad is not the competition.

It's also not a laptop, so that's also a terrible comparison.


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## TBoneit

The user that has one seems to like it.

From here on Bleeping Computer http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/t/485047/microsoft-surface-pro/
read post number 2 by killerx525

He is a reliable contributor there.

Cheers
TBoneit


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## lparsons21

hilmar2k said:


> They may be in the rear view mirror, but it will be to other Core iX machines running Windows. The bottom line is that for business, a tablet needs to be running a real OS, and needs a real processor. You just can't have 8-10 hour run-time with that horsepower in a tablet form factor.
> 
> Unlike the iPad, the Surface Pro isn't for playing Angry Birds and watching YouTube videos. It's a business machine that does things the iPad can't. The iPad is not the competition.
> 
> It's also not a laptop, so that's also a terrible comparison.


You may be right about business and the Core iX machines though history shows that hasn't been the case at all. Touch machines with pathetic battery life were tried and rejected many years ago. We'll see if they get traction this time.

And yes, businesses can and do use the iOS devices for many business uses.

Now let's come back to that form factor. Compare the 11" MacBook Air to the Surface with keyboard (the only practical way in most business use cases). Pricewise they are at the same point. And yes, the Air at the moment lacks touch, but frankly touch doesn't have that big an impact on battery life. Yet the Air gets much better battery life out of their config.


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## hilmar2k

lparsons21 said:


> You may be right about business and the Core iX machines though history shows that hasn't been the case at all. Touch machines with pathetic battery life were tried and rejected many years ago. We'll see if they get traction this time.
> 
> And yes, businesses can and do use the iOS devices for many business uses.
> 
> Now let's come back to that form factor. Compare the 11" MacBook Air to the Surface with keyboard (the only practical way in most business use cases). Pricewise they are at the same point. And yes, the Air at the moment lacks touch, but frankly touch doesn't have that big an impact on battery life. Yet the Air gets much better battery life out of their config.


The MacBook Air is 55% larger and 20% heavier. Of course it can have better battery life.


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## wingrider01

Cholly said:


> Folks over at LiveScience.com did a battery life test on the Surface Pro and came up with a result of 4 hours and 37 minutes, compared to an Ipad's 12 hours and 22 minutes.
> Not very good results for a tablet.
> http://news.yahoo.com/7-worst-battery-life-guzzling-gadgets-162947696.html


Have never seen 12 hours of battery life on the ipads we are replacing with the surfaces, under continious use we see about 4 maybe 5 hours in the clinics, hell the one I use mainly as a kindle gets about 6 - 7 hours of use before it is down to 5 percent charge left - and yes it is a brand new ipad - the 4th generation


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## wingrider01

hdtvfan0001 said:


> That gets done here from time to time on my Android tablet.
> 
> I'm sure Surface supports it too.


Gets done on the ipad through Office 365 here, for native work with powerpoint will stick with a windows based system, it just works better


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## Hoosier205

A Windows device. Meh...

I'll give it a year to see how they perform, both in use and sales. I've begun to see Microsoft in the same light as Blackberry/RIM: A day late and a dollar short.


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## hilmar2k

Hoosier205 said:


> A Windows device. Meh...
> 
> I'll give it a year to see how they perform, both in use and sales. I've begun to see Microsoft in the same light as Blackberry/RIM: A day late and a dollar short.


Maybe, but the only platform that is useful in any way for me for work. I am sure I am by no means alone in that. The program I use for work daily is Windows only.


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## lparsons21

wingrider01 said:


> Have never seen 12 hours of battery life on the ipads we are replacing with the surfaces, under continious use we see about 4 maybe 5 hours in the clinics, hell the one I use mainly as a kindle gets about 6 - 7 hours of use before it is down to 5 percent charge left - and yes it is a brand new ipad - the 4th generation


I get about 10 hours on my iPad under continuous use and it is the original iPad. That said, some apps seem to eat battery time heavier than others which would explain the differing times people see.


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## lparsons21

wingrider01 said:


> Gets done on the ipad through Office 365 here, for native work with powerpoint will stick with a windows based system, it just works better


Creating or heavily editing a Powerpoint presentation is certainly better done and easier on a more conventional setup of keyboard/mouse. Touch is of no real value for that and certainly not on a very small screen.


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## Hoosier205

hilmar2k;3179910 said:


> Maybe, but the only platform that is useful in any way for me for work. I am sure I am by no means alone in that. The program I use for work daily is Windows only.


What program is that?


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## hilmar2k

Hoosier205;3179915 said:


> What program is that?


Encompass, a mortgage origination program. A lot of the website I need for work are even IE only. Annoying.


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## houskamp

get 6hrs on my netbook.. atom dual,ion graphics,win7x64.. nice little machine..


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## Hoosier205

hilmar2k;3179930 said:


> Encompass, a mortgage origination program. A lot of the website I need for work are even IE only. Annoying.


FYI - I happened across their Facebook page of all places. Someone asked about a Mac version. They have no plans for one, but said the next big launch will be web-based rather than OS. That was posted in November of 2012.


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## naijai

Well i'm still waiting for Best Buy to restock their supply of the 128GB  , So untill then the ipad lives for another week. I'm sure the reason (IMHO) of the shortage was MS didn't supply enough to retailers for the launch. So hopefully i can get it by this weekend


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## lparsons21

According to iFixit the Surface Pro in nearly unrepairable, so I would get an extended warranty if you just have to have one. I make that same recommendation for the MacBook Air and MacBook Pro with Retina Display, which also are not very repairable though a bit better than the surface from what I've read.


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## naijai

lparsons21 said:


> According to iFixit the Surface Pro in nearly unrepairable, so I would get an extended warranty if you just have to have one. I make that same recommendation for the MacBook Air and MacBook Pro with Retina Display, which also are not very repairable though a bit better than the surface from what I've read.


I saw that breakdown of the Surface Pro, i have considered the warranty on it but haven't decided yet


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## lparsons21

if you think about it, it shouldn't be something to contemplate long. The SurfacePro is a brand new machine with exactly zero track record.


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## hilmar2k

lparsons21 said:


> if you think about it, it shouldn't be something to contemplate long. The SurfacePro is a brand new machine with exactly zero track record.


So did you give that same advice when the iPad came out?


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## lparsons21

hilmar2k said:


> So did you give that same advice when the iPad came out?


Yes, but in the case of the iPad I recommended 3rd party coverage as it was most often better and available for longer periods.

That said Apple's reputation for quality is very much better than Microsoft's when it comes to hardware. And the price to entry for the iPad is about half the entry price to the SurfacePro, which I think has to be taken into consideration.


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## Laxguy

lparsons21 said:


> Yes, but in the case of the iPad I recommended 3rd party coverage as it was most often better and available for longer periods.
> 
> That said Apple's reputation for quality is very much better than Microsoft's when it comes to hardware. And the price to entry for the iPad is about half the entry price to the SurfacePro, which I think has to be taken into consideration.


Well, the quality of the software is way better with Apple, too, another consideration.

I was surprised it was priced higher than iPads, esp. by quite a margin.


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## lparsons21

You really can't compare the SurfacePro to an iPad, the RT is the better comparison.

The SurfacePro is more closely related to an ultrabook with touch than it is to a standard tablet. And I cannot imagine many selling without one of the keyboard addons as so much of the heavy lifting software requires it. Actually I don't think the Pro will get any better traction in the market than the RT has gotten.


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## hilmar2k

The bottom line is that there are only a couple true business tablets out there right now, the Surface Pro and and Acer Iconia W7. There are more coming. 

I am holding out for a Core iX tablet with Windows 8 and a full docking station. The Iconia comes close, but their Cradle doesn't have video out. Right now my computer is an older ThinkPad that sits in a docking station on my desk when at work, connected to a 20" monitor, printer and a wireless keyboard and mouse. It leaves with me. I want a tablet to replace that. They are getting very close. I think the Surface Pro is a great step in the right direction, but I will end up with something else (unless there is a docking station made available for it).


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## wingrider01

lparsons21 said:


> Creating or heavily editing a Powerpoint presentation is certainly better done and easier on a more conventional setup of keyboard/mouse. Touch is of no real value for that and certainly not on a very small screen.


Never seen a person that grew up with the touch sensitive screens do that have you? My 23 year old secretary can fly through modifying and vetting my PP presentations / speeches on her tablet faster then I have seen people that use a keyboard and mouse combo


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## Steve

Related to this discussion, if the analyst quoted is correct, Microsoft's _"damned if they do, and damned if they don't"_ port office to the iPad. I can only imagine the arguments going on inside the company between the application division vs. the Windows and hardware guys.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ericsav...ft-office-on-ios-could-offer-2-5b-in-revenue/


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## lparsons21

wingrider01 said:


> Never seen a person that grew up with the touch sensitive screens do that have you? My 23 year old secretary can fly through modifying and vetting my PP presentations / speeches on her tablet faster then I have seen people that use a keyboard and mouse combo


Yeah I have seen someone that only uses touch but I've never seen one do as you describe unless the ones using keyboard/mouse combo were dunderheads. 

I had an HP Touchsmart for awhile that I got for a specific purpose. Didn't work out for what I wanted it for as the form factor and my organ just didn't get along very well.

But I did some twiddling with the touch apps that came with it. Loved a few of them, but the conventional apps just weren't useful with touch imo.


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## wingrider01

lparsons21 said:


> Yeah I have seen someone that only uses touch but I've never seen one do as you describe unless the ones using keyboard/mouse combo were dunderheads.
> 
> I had an HP Touchsmart for awhile that I got for a specific purpose. Didn't work out for what I wanted it for as the form factor and my organ just didn't get along very well.
> 
> But I did some twiddling with the touch apps that came with it. Loved a few of them, but the conventional apps just weren't useful with touch imo.


I can assure you I have 40 years in IT the last 15 doing computer forensic's security for medical related research organizations and been working with home computers since the commodore pet in 1977 and am not a "dunderhead".


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## naijai

I picked up my surface pro yesterday and so far i am enjoying it very much. 
The only thing right now that i do not like is the power supply but understand again it is a full laptop. So i will be getting a second one to carry around.


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