# Can't Watch OTA HD while recording 2 Sat Channels?



## welchwarlock (Jan 5, 2005)

I keep belly aching over this device. Every night it is a new problem. Here is tonight's problem:

While Recording 2 local channels from satellite, I want to watch HD from the antenna.

My 921 kindly tells me that there is no tuner available.

What is up with that  

I just rebooted that over sensitive piece of junk an hour earlier. 
Can it not do that? Record 2 SAT, and watch the OTA?

It seems to me that when it is recording a local channel from the satellite, that it thinks the OTA tuner is in use. Any other idea?

The other night, when it had a problem, the shows being recorded were lost. Tonight, if I loose both of these shows, my wife is going to want a divorce.

Regards,

Robert Cook


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## Mike123abc (Jul 19, 2002)

Yes with the 921 you can only use 2 tuners at the same time. You can record 2 channels while watching a prerecorded show.


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## dishbacker (Jun 15, 2004)

Sounds like you can get a 942 in March be able to record on all 3 tuners at the same time... 1 OTA and 2 SAT.... but I guess that doesn't help you much right now, does it?


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

welchwarlock said:


> I keep belly aching over this device. Every night it is a new problem. Here is tonight's problem:
> 
> While Recording 2 local channels from satellite, I want to watch HD from the antenna.
> 
> ...


States in the Product Brochure that it records two programs at once. There is no mention of record two and watch one live. If you record two programs and watch a third live you are using three tuners. This is the same with the DirectTV Tivo (2 OTA/ 2 Sat) Unit. Guess what you cant record 1 OTA, and 2 SAT channels and 1 OTA at the same time with that unit.

http://www.dishnetwork.com/downloads/pdf/product_brochures/RETAIL_1293_DISH921_UPDATE.pdf

This is works as designed. Nothing broken. Nothing sucking. The 921 is telling you that you don't have a tuner available because you are using both. You can still watch a recorded show though while recording two others.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

dishbacker said:


> Sounds like you can get a 942 in March be able to record on all 3 tuners at the same time... 1 OTA and 2 SAT.... but I guess that doesn't help you much right now, does it?


I don't believe the 942 will allow this either. I believe it only has two tuners with three possible choices of feeds just like the 921.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

The 942 will allow you to use all three tuners at the same time, unlike the 921.


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## Eagles (Dec 31, 2003)

Mark Lamutt said:


> The 942 will allow you to use all three tuners at the same time, unlike the 921.


How many channels can you record at once?


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Eagles said:


> How many channels can you record at once?


Three. (You'll hear more about this next week...)


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## Eagles (Dec 31, 2003)

Mark Lamutt said:


> Three. (You'll hear more about this next week...)


I guess it would be wishfull thinking to assume that Dish may offer some type of upgrade promo for existing 921 owners.


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## cleblanc (Dec 18, 2003)

The one thing that is a bug I believe though is that if I have an OTA program being recorded and I am watching a prerecorded program, I cannot delete the prerecorded program at the end because it tries to tune to another OTA tuner and tells me it is in use. It will tell me that I have to stop my recording first. I have no choice but to leave the program on the DVR, hit the DVR button and watch something else from that list.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Mark Lamutt said:


> The 942 will allow you to use all three tuners at the same time, unlike the 921.


WOW... that is new.. Was not aware of that change. I would much rather them added a 2nd OTA input, but the ability to record three streams at once if nice! That means you can record two and watch a third. Something nobody in the industry can do right now.

Now if only Santa earily and exchange my 921 for one. I would be a happy camper. Personally I think there should be an exchange program from the 921 given what they have had to endure and the NBR thing.

Well lets hope.. Funny thing is that some people were calling this unit a step back. I never saw it that way and nice to see it is not. The 2nd OTA tuner is a bummer but 3 individual streams at one time. ROCKS!!!


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## n0qcu (Mar 23, 2002)

One thing to keep in mind about the 942, The info I've seen says you cannot watch live ota on tv2.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Nevermind...I'll just crawl back under my rock now... 

Once again, you'll see more about this next week.


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## KKlare (Sep 24, 2004)

Read the brochure Scott Greczkowski posted 1-24 at
http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=44050&page=1


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

Mark Lamutt said:


> That info isn't correct, Kevin.
> 
> Once again, you'll see more about this next week.


 What is this teasing about next week? Is a big annoucement coming that we don't know about? How do existing customers get one on the lease plan and is this an option at all?


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

welchwarlock said:


> I keep belly aching over this device. Every night it is a new problem. Here is tonight's problem:
> 
> While Recording 2 local channels from satellite, I want to watch HD from the antenna.
> 
> ...


 IF you have the ota channels enabled in your preference menu , you can record 2 sat channels and watch the analog ota stations at the same time. This won't work with if one of the channels being recorded is an ota digital station, only if it is two satellite channels being recorded. I know this doesn't help with your particular problem but it does provide another option, besides watching a prerecorded show on the dvr list. I found this out by accident .

One other thing I did, was buy a LG dvd player, that upconverts all my dvds into 1080i , with a digital tuner built in . I can watch the dvd player and use my digital connection through my a/v receiver and get the dolby digital sound also.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Mike D-CO5 said:


> What is this teasing about next week? Is a big annoucement coming that we don't know about? How do existing customers get one on the lease plan and is this an option at all?


I have no answers for those questions yet Mike.


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

Five HD streams at once on the 942, eh? Three to the disk, two coming back. Yes, I know the second one is not rendered in HD, but it might have been recorded that way.

Anyway, five HD streams, I wonder what magic new HDD system they've got that can handle that much bandwidth. The Maxtor Quickview can't.


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## David_Levin (Apr 22, 2002)

SimpleSimon said:


> Anyway, five HD streams, I wonder what magic new HDD system they've got that can handle that much bandwidth. The Maxtor Quickview can't.


Good question - I'm feeling a bit skeptical at this point.


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## David_Levin (Apr 22, 2002)

cleblanc said:


> The one thing that is a bug I believe though is that if I have an OTA program being recorded and I am watching a prerecorded program, I cannot delete the prerecorded program at the end because it tries to tune to another OTA tuner and tells me it is in use.


Yes - a variation is deleting when both tuners are in use. Makes me rather nervous.

I usually start playing another PVR event, then go delete the first (keeps the 921 from trying to grab a tuner).

I'd rather it would just delete the program, then return you to the PVR screen without trying to display a video feed.


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## KKlare (Sep 24, 2004)

David_Levin said:


> Yes - a variation is deleting when both tuners are in use. Makes me rather nervous.
> 
> I usually start playing another PVR event, then go delete the first (keeps the 921 from trying to grab a tuner).
> 
> I'd rather it would just delete the program, then return you to the PVR screen without trying to display a video feed.


I second that. The STOP option is confusing unless you really read it. At least the default is to not stop.

Why does it take as long to return as a normal delete if you do NOTHING? Absurd programming.
120B/F051/L211HECD-N


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

I thought about this issue and I've come to the conclusion that the reaason you cannot watch a digital OTA while both sat tuners are recording is because when you watch live digital OTA the PVR has to record a buffer for the "trick play" features. Since the HD is already busy recording 2 satellite stereams, there is not enough processing capacity left for the bufer. On thing I have not tried is watching live analog OTA while recording 2 digital streams. Since analog has no trick play or recording function, you would think that it could be available.


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## tom921 (Jan 21, 2005)

Conceptually, it seems that there are 4 tuners; 2 SAT, 1 OTA digital and 1 OTA analog. From what I have read in this thread, it seems like that is not the case. Can anybody explain how many real tuners there are?

Regarding the original post where two SAT programs were being recorded and no tuner was available for an OTA HD, you might be able to do what I have done. I split the OTA signal so that it goes to both the 921 and the TV. I actually split it 3 ways; one to the 921, one to the TV OTA digital input and one to the TV OTA analog input. My TV has enough inputs to do this. I think I get a better OTA picture without going through the 921 but usually I am too lazy to switch the TV to an OTA input.


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

Since some of us do not have an ATSC tuner outside the one on the 921, we need to focus on how the 921 tunes OTA.

It appears that the same tuner that receives the digital OTA signals (ATSC) also tunes the analog (NTSC). I make this assumption based on how the tuner behaves when changing from one kind of OTA channel to another and the fact that there is only one antenna input (it could be split internally but on other tuners such as your TV's they are seperate inputs). If they were seperate tuners, there would be less hesitation between digital and analog.

I'd be careful when spliltting antenna signals if there are any marginal (i.e. weak) ATSC signals. It appears that the 921 needs a minimum of "75" to tune in a digital channel.


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

Michael P said:


> I thought about this issue and I've come to the conclusion that the reaason you cannot watch a digital OTA while both sat tuners are recording is because when you watch live digital OTA the PVR has to record a buffer for the "trick play" features. Since the HD is already busy recording 2 satellite stereams, there is not enough processing capacity left for the bufer. On thing I have not tried is watching live analog OTA while recording 2 digital streams. Since analog has no trick play or recording function, you would think that it could be available.


 I was told long ago that the OTA tuner does NOT share hardware resources with the satellite tuners (that might be wrong). If it is correct, the problem lies with the software (surprise!).

So, looking at that, and that the 921's roots are the 721 (2 tuner, no OTA), the answer seems obvious. The 721 has no need for anything beyond 2, so that design "concept" is probably everyplace in the code, and therefore, not fixable.

I've had similar programming problems presented to me in the past. One, two, or many. My philosophy has always been that there are only two non-zero cases. One, and more than one. That is, any situation that calls for more than one data structure is designed so that it can handle *many* such structures. I learned it while working on the IBM mainframe operating systems 30 years ago. THOSE guys were GOOD!

I've had to ram this down the throats of a few bosses over the years, but have always been proven right - sometimes not until years later. Like IBM's design for multi-processors. There was one, and there was many - even though the hardware guys hadn't figured out how to make just two run well yet.


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