# Can high heat affect signal strength?



## Avder (Feb 6, 2010)

Here in Fargo today we are approaching 100 degrees of actual heat and 110 degrees on the heat index. By coincidence, despite the fact that it is sunny, my signal readings are in the toilet. The 101 sat which usually reads high 80s to perfect 100s is reading mid 60s to mid 80s, and every other sat is anywhere from the high 30s to low 80s depending on the transponder. I am wondering if the high heat could be a factor. I don't remember it getting this hot at all last summer, and aside from rain fade lately due to unusually heavy rains my signal has been solid ever since it was installed in January of '10.

Could the heat be the reason? Some kind of LNB issue with heat, or maybe some other heat expansion of the dish parts or the roof itself? I dont like watching baseball games and seeing the signal flicker for a second every few minutes.


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## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

It will have no effect unless you have a fault somewhere. A badly-made connection could be affected by the expansion that you get in hot conditions, or you could have a heat-sensitive LNB.


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## curt8403 (Dec 27, 2007)

I agree with Texasbrit, except that high heat *might* change the signal strength by one or two points (but not more than a couple of points.)
my statement is based on the fact that you might get a tiny bit of metal expansion.


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## maartena (Nov 1, 2010)

I can't speak for Arizonians.... but they have cities like Phoenix that live through 110-120 degree heat sometimes for WEEKS at a time. I don't believe the heat by itself would have an effect.... just like -30 cold would not. (Ice, snow sure.... but not necessarily the cold itself).

That said, Arizona is a very DRY heat, where in Fargo.... the humidity factor is probably extreme, so there could be condensation somewhere were it shouldn't be, such as exposed wire-ends etc.


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## lesz (Aug 3, 2010)

Avder said:


> Here in Fargo today we are approaching 100 degrees of actual heat and 110 degrees on the heat index. By coincidence, despite the fact that it is sunny, my signal readings are in the toilet. The 101 sat which usually reads high 80s to perfect 100s is reading mid 60s to mid 80s, and every other sat is anywhere from the high 30s to low 80s depending on the transponder. I am wondering if the high heat could be a factor. I don't remember it getting this hot at all last summer, and aside from rain fade lately due to unusually heavy rains my signal has been solid ever since it was installed in January of '10.
> 
> Could the heat be the reason? Some kind of LNB issue with heat, or maybe some other heat expansion of the dish parts or the roof itself? I dont like watching baseball games and seeing the signal flicker for a second every few minutes.


I'm in northwest Illinois and currently have very similar weather/temperature conditions with temperatures in the 95+ range and lots of humidity. Out of curiosity, I just checked my signal levels. For the 101, 110, and 117 satellites, signal levels seem about normal with most transponders running between 95 and 100. For the 99 and 103 satellites, signal levels might be a point or two lower than normal and running from the high 80s to the mid 90s, but, even there, I'm not sure whether there might be slightly lower signal levels because of temperature or, perhaps, because of the haze in the atmosphere, which does affect the Ka signals more than the Ku signals.

As others have said, expansion of metal parts (or haze) might have a minor impact on signal levels, but it shouldn't be to the extent that you are describing.


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## Avder (Feb 6, 2010)

Well thats lovely, so I either have to fork out some cash to ask a tech to come out, or hope that my reciever reports low signal consistently enough that I get one of those "Youve got low signal, would you like a free tech visit" calls.

And my car broke down today. This is just effing perfect.


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## ThomasM (Jul 20, 2007)

We have heat indexes over 100 posted for tomorrow (7/1) here in SE Wisconsin also. But in my prior experience with DirecTV the only thing that affects a PROPERLY INSTALLED/AIMED SATELLITE DISH is heavy rain and/or ice & snow.

There were some defective LNB's out there I recall that went belly up in the cold, but I can't recall any producing reduced output in high temperatures.

More likely, a reduction in signal strength could be due to the receiver if it is overheated in a non-air conditioned home or even worse locked in an unventilated cabinet. That would be easy to determine by "checking it's temperature" from the system setup/info & test menu.


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## mini1 (Jan 25, 2004)

I'm seeing the same signal strength no matter the temp here in S. FL. It can be 110° in the sun during the day and I'm still 95-100 on 101 and 93-99 on 99/103. The only thing that knocks down the numbers or makes the signal drop out is a heavy rain cloud/monsoon rainstorm over the Southwest sky.

Your dish may have been thrown out of alignment.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

Avder said:


> Here in Fargo today we are approaching 100 degrees of actual heat and 110 degrees on the heat index. By coincidence, despite the fact that it is sunny, my signal readings are in the toilet. The 101 sat which usually reads high 80s to perfect 100s is reading mid 60s to mid 80s, and every other sat is anywhere from the high 30s to low 80s depending on the transponder. I am wondering if the high heat could be a factor. I don't remember it getting this hot at all last summer, and aside from rain fade lately due to unusually heavy rains my signal has been solid ever since it was installed in January of '10.
> 
> Could the heat be the reason? Some kind of LNB issue with heat, or maybe some other heat expansion of the dish parts or the roof itself? I dont like watching baseball games and seeing the signal flicker for a second every few minutes.


LNB, possibly but unlikely.
I'd put my money on whatever it's attached too expanding (moving) ever so slightly in the high heat or the reflector is partially shaded and the difference is causing it to warp a little bit.


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## Avder (Feb 6, 2010)

Well, for what its worth I checked everything just now at 5 am and all the signals are normal again. I doubt its the reciever overheating cause the a/c had been on all day and its right by the TV, not in a cabinet or anything. But I will keep investigating. I hope I dont have to pay to have my dish redone.


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## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

Just to add to the data - here in DFW it has been at 99-102 every day for weeks and there has been no change in my signal levels.


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## usnret (Jan 16, 2009)

Avder. What does it do when it's -20, same thing?


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

am wondering about loose mount or flexing.


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## Avder (Feb 6, 2010)

usnret said:


> Avder. What does it do when it's -20, same thing?


Didnt lose signal once at all last winter or the winter before that, not even during a blizzard.



David MacLeod said:


> am wondering about loose mount or flexing.


Might be. Right now the signal loss is tolerable. I'm going to wait and see if it becomes intolerable before I get some kind of call because my receiver keeps reporting bad signal.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I've never had problems in the summer myself. I would think theoretically, rapidly rising air in front of the dish could diffuse signals but I doubt it would really account for more than a 1 or 2 point drop.


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## Gene Steinberg (Jun 8, 2009)

Echoing what someone else said. We had 118 degrees in Phoenix yesterday — no problem with DirecTV. If any of those services suffered with high temperatures, they wouldn't last one season here in the desert.

Peace,
Gene


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## Avder (Feb 6, 2010)

Well today I'm losing signal like crazy so I went outside and looked at the dish and then looked around and saw something I never saw before...a big fricking tree in my neighbors yard that I think is getting in the way. So I think the tree is the problem. I don't know if its something that they just put in or if its something that's grown into the beam just this year, but I am convinced I need to get my dish repositioned now.

Is there any way I can get a free tech visit and dish relocation out of this? Aren't installers supposed to ensure X amount of years before trees or whatever grow and get in the dish's way?


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## curt8403 (Dec 27, 2007)

I think they are required to check LOS at time of install, not for years later.
Trees are specifically excluded.


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## n3ntj (Dec 18, 2006)

Avder said:


> Here in Fargo today we are approaching 100 degrees of actual heat and 110 degrees on the heat index. By coincidence, despite the fact that it is sunny, my signal readings are in the toilet. The 101 sat which usually reads high 80s to perfect 100s is reading mid 60s to mid 80s, and every other sat is anywhere from the high 30s to low 80s depending on the transponder. I am wondering if the high heat could be a factor. I don't remember it getting this hot at all last summer, and aside from rain fade lately due to unusually heavy rains my signal has been solid ever since it was installed in January of '10.
> 
> Could the heat be the reason? Some kind of LNB issue with heat, or maybe some other heat expansion of the dish parts or the roof itself? I dont like watching baseball games and seeing the signal flicker for a second every few minutes.


Heat is one of the major enemies of electronics but most electronic equipment (such as satellite equipment) is most often designed and tested for extreme conditions (down to at least -20 degs F and up to at least 120 degs F at least). I know because I am an Electrical Engineer. I would check all coax connections, dish connection to your home, etc.


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## Avder (Feb 6, 2010)

curt8403 said:


> I think they are required to check LOS at time of install, not for years later.
> Trees are specifically excluded.


I thought they were supposed to place it so it would be at least two years before any growth got in the way.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Avder said:


> I thought they were supposed to place it so it would be at least two years before any growth got in the way.


How's a satellite installer supposed to predict tree growth rate? :lol:


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## Avder (Feb 6, 2010)

sigma1914 said:


> How's a satellite installer supposed to predict tree growth rate? :lol:


You know you could offer some legitimate advice instead of just laughing at me.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Avder said:


> You know you could offer some legitimate advice instead of just laughing at me.


I wasn't laughing AT you...I was laughing at the idea that a satellite installer could predict 2 year tree growth.
Call DirecTV and ask them to come out. Better?


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## Rob (Apr 23, 2002)

Avder said:


> Well today I'm losing signal like crazy so I went outside and looked at the dish and then looked around and saw something I never saw before...a big fricking tree in my neighbors yard that I think is getting in the way. So I think the tree is the problem. I don't know if its something that they just put in or if its something that's grown into the beam just this year, but I am convinced I need to get my dish repositioned now.
> 
> Is there any way I can get a free tech visit and dish relocation out of this? Aren't installers supposed to ensure X amount of years before trees or whatever grow and get in the dish's way?


Could be the leaves are blocking reception. Or the tree is leaning more than before.

Or unlike Phoenix, in Fargo you can go from extreme cold to extreme heat. Big swings in temperatures can break down materials and cause things to corrode faster. I realize Phoenix gets cold, but not as Cold as Fargo, and Fargo it could be 20 degree one week and than in the 90's/100s the next week. So just because dish operates fine in Phoenix heat, doesn't rule out that extreme temperature changes in Fargo can cause disruptions of signal level.


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## Avder (Feb 6, 2010)

sigma1914 said:


> I wasn't laughing AT you...I was laughing at the idea that a satellite installer could predict 2 year tree growth.
> Call DirecTV and ask them to come out. Better?


Is there any way to ask them to come out and not end up with a several hundred dollar bill to have the dish relocated to another spot tho?

I'm kind of broke lately.


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

well you have to call and ask them.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Avder said:


> Is there any way to ask them to come out and not end up with a several hundred dollar bill to have the dish relocated to another spot tho?
> 
> I'm kind of broke lately.


Times are tough, so maybe they'll work with you. I take it that you don't have the Protection Plan?


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## Avder (Feb 6, 2010)

sigma1914 said:


> Times are tough, so maybe they'll work with you. I take it that you don't have the Protection Plan?


Nope. All my receivers are leased, so it never even came to mind.


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## Avder (Feb 6, 2010)

Also, since heat has basically been ruled out, could a mod, add something like "It was a tree all along" to the title of this thread or something?


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## west99999 (May 12, 2007)

a relocate will only cost u $49


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## CrazyHeartz (May 29, 2011)

You can still add the Protection Plan, and the service call will be waived for the sfss. It if turns out to be a line of sight problem, I am sure that D** will work with you. You won't be billed for the Protection Plan for 30 days, so no funds immediately out of pocket.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

n3ntj said:


> Heat is one of the major enemies of electronics but most electronic equipment (such as satellite equipment) is most often designed and tested for extreme conditions (down to at least -20 degs F and up to at least 120 degs F at least). I know because I am an Electrical Engineer. I would check all coax connections, dish connection to your home, etc.


If you work for CE, then you should know hand handled devices (PDA, smartphones, eBooks) usually tested in env. chambers up to 50 degree C and 95% humidity. Lower range usually depend of a components, Li-Ion battery cannot go to freezing temp.


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## JimAtTheRez (May 9, 2008)

I feel your pain. My signal strengths go from 97 to 0 and back. I am getting pixelation and 771 on both locals and nationals, HD and SD. D has been out here once, and repaired a loose connection, but it is back again. This situation comes and goes, but it happens on all 4 of my HD DVR's. I do have the protection plan, so there is no cost to me (unless you count the time...you know 8-12 means 1:15....or the aggravation of going to watch a recorded program (I watch nothing live except news or sporting events) only to see a partial recording or a recording that is closer to a slide show. Anyway, any ideas? D is coming back out next Friday, but I would accept any advice. TIA.


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## Avder (Feb 6, 2010)

So it sounds like my best option is to add the protection plan and then ask for them to come look at a line of sight issue.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Yeah. And get chainsaw ready .


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## azarby (Dec 15, 2006)

JimAtTheRez said:


> I feel your pain. My signal strengths go from 97 to 0 and back. I am getting pixelation and 771 on both locals and nationals, HD and SD. D has been out here once, and repaired a loose connection, but it is back again. This situation comes and goes, but it happens on all 4 of my HD DVR's. I do have the protection plan, so there is no cost to me (unless you count the time...you know 8-12 means 1:15....or the aggravation of going to watch a recorded program (I watch nothing live except news or sporting events) only to see a partial recording or a recording that is closer to a slide show. Anyway, any ideas? D is coming back out next Friday, but I would accept any advice. TIA.


Since it is common to all receivers, It could be the LNB or a bad cable, not just a bad connector.


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## Avder (Feb 6, 2010)

P Smith said:


> Yeah. And get chainsaw ready .


Its the top of my neighbors tree. I'm not doing anything illegal, and if I did, it sure wouldnt be that loud.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

You could ask his permission ...


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

I'm not quite sure how hot/cold or day/night is going to make a difference with a tree.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Avder said:


> So it sounds like my best option is to add the protection plan and then ask for them to come look at a line of sight issue.


Amazing how many folks see no need for the Protection Plan until...

Rich


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## maartena (Nov 1, 2010)

Avder said:


> Is there any way I can get a free tech visit and dish relocation out of this? Aren't installers supposed to ensure X amount of years before trees or whatever grow and get in the dish's way?


No. The installer is not there to "guesstimate" the growth rate of a certain tree. Your neighbor could have planted a fast growing tree a few days before install, and some trees can grow up to 10 to 15 feet per year.

They only have to get LOS at the time of the install. If nature gets in the way 3 years later because something grew, its all on you.


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## Avder (Feb 6, 2010)

So how soon after I add the protection plan do you guys think I should call them?


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## lesz (Aug 3, 2010)

Avder said:


> So how soon after I add the protection plan do you guys think I should call them?


If it was my system, I'd take a different approach.

I'd call DIRECTV and use the automated system to ask for tech support. I would then tell them that my signal levels are fluctuating and go through whatever troubleshooting hoops that they make you go through. Since I am not 100% certain, from what you have said, that the problem is a line of sight issue, I wouldn't even mention anything about trees. If you do this, there is a very good chance that they will set up a truck roll for you at no cost even without the protection plan. They have done so for me, and, if your account is in good standing, chances are very good that they will do so for you.

On the other hand, the approach that you are currently considering doesn't seem to me to be the best. You are considering signing up for the protection plan and committing yourself to one year of the protection plan and at least $84 in protection plan charges to avoid a service call that might well be free but that, at worst, is going to cost you $49. And, while you are delaying in calling them, you are continuing to add days when you are not getting the full benefit of the programming for which you are paying.

Also, if you want to make a rough check on your own to confirm whether or not line of sight is the problem, take a yardstick to the dish. Place one end of the yardstick at the base of the dish where the LNB arm is attached, and rest the other end of the yardstick on top of the array of LNBs. This will not give a perfect indication of your pointing, but it will give a rough approximation. As you look toward the direction that the top of the yardstick is pointing and if there are no obstructions in the arc between 99 and 103 degrees, it is unlikely that pointing is your issue.


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## Avder (Feb 6, 2010)

lesz said:


> If it was my system, I'd take a different approach.
> 
> I'd call DIRECTV and use the automated system to ask for tech support. I would then tell them that my signal levels are fluctuating and go through whatever troubleshooting hoops that they make you go through. Since I am not 100% certain, from what you have said, that the problem is a line of sight issue, I wouldn't even mention anything about trees. If you do this, there is a very good chance that they will set up a truck roll for you at no cost even without the protection plan. They have done so for me, and, if your account is in good standing, chances are very good that they will do so for you.
> 
> ...


Good plan. I think I'll go with that. Thanks for the detailed post!


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## Avder (Feb 6, 2010)

Just wanted to let anyone interested know that I finally got a tech to come out to look at this, and the first thing he said when I opened the door is "your neighbors tree is in the way".

He moved the dish close to the apex of my roof. No idea how long that will keep said tree from getting in the way, since when I had it installed 18 months ago it wasn't a problem.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Talk to an owner of the tree - perhaps you could trim it in your favor ?


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