# Leaving Directv after 8 years.



## SPECIES11703 (Oct 10, 2004)

I don't know if this has happened to anybody else, but here goes. Verizon just recently offered their Fios service in my neighborhood. I switched my internet from Time Warner Cable and I am going to switch my TV service from DirecTV to the Fios TV service. I know that I will be missing out on some of the programming, MLB EI and the NFL Sunday Ticket. But I am going to be paying about $100 less a month having the bundle of Phone, Internet and TV together. Has anybody else noticed this with Verizon coming into their cities. The price is great and the programming is about equal to what DirecTV offers as far as Basic channels but I see Verizon offering 50% more of premium channels Directv has 12 cinemax channels to Directv's 3 and so fourth.


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

My friend just got FiOS installed a few weeks ago and it seems like a fairly good offering. I don't like their receivers though. He got almost the same Motorola box he had with Comcast previously. Guide is pillarboxed, GUI is a little cumbersome. If FiOS were available to me right now I wouldn't switch mostly because DirecTV has superior receivers.

Best of luck with your choice.


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## mongo31 (Jan 19, 2008)

No idea, but I too had to get away from DirecTV because the do not offer Erie, PA locals. I had DirecTV in SC for ~8 yrs. Soooooo, I went to F(*&^*^ING TW because of the local issue, BUT Vzon is setting up FiOS near my house ~ June, so I'll see what exactly they offer. Then again. I still might set up my own Slimmy and wing it.


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## cforrest (Jan 20, 2007)

I would not switch to FIOS TV, but I love FIOS internet and the phone works for me. I ended up with double play and added D* bill to Verizon's bill for additional $6/month credit for doing it from Verizon. Until FIOS TV gets sports packages with InDemand, I am sticking with D*!


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## Blackz06 (Mar 6, 2007)

Good luck on your switch. Verizon does have some killer deals. I get a call about once a moth from them trying to lure me over. You'll find that their FiOS internet is superb. I've had it about a year and not once have I had any problems what so ever. The wireless router they give away for free is pretty decent, again no problems with it either. My router is upstair in the master bedroom wall and I still get excellent reception downstair with my laptop. You will not be disappointed.

One feature you'll get that I'll be jelous of is that you can network your DVR's so if you record a show in the living room, you can watch it in your bedroom.


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## jhillestad (Jan 13, 2007)

Bye - no one cares....


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## Brandon428 (Mar 21, 2007)

SPECIES11703 said:


> I don't know if this has happened to anybody else, but here goes. Verizon just recently offered their Fios service in my neighborhood. I switched my internet from Time Warner Cable and I am going to switch my TV service from DirecTV to the Fios TV service. I know that I will be missing out on some of the programming, MLB EI and the NFL Sunday Ticket. But I am going to be paying about $100 less a month having the bundle of Phone, Internet and TV together. Has anybody else noticed this with Verizon coming into their cities. The price is great and the programming is about equal to what DirecTV offers as far as Basic channels but I see Verizon offering 50% more of premium channels Directv has 12 cinemax channels to Directv's 3 and so fourth.


I would do it to. LUS just started laying down FTTH yesterday here in Lafayette,La. Pretty soon they'll be offering unlimited long distance phone/w all known features,HD, DVR service,VOD, basically every channel or more that Directv has,and internet 30mbps(it may be more I'm not sure) for 85.00 a month. No contract either. Pretty hard to pass a deal like that up. You can even get speeds up to 100mbps if you wanted. Once it becomes available to me I'll have to say goodbye to good ol Directv.


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## SteveHas (Feb 7, 2007)

I have FiOS internet and love it. FiOS has been avaibale ion N.E. for a couple of years now.
The TV service is great, but those intro deals will kill you when the package price is over.
PQ is great, I don't like all of the ala carte pricing that is needed to get to what I have with my HR20-700s.
To be sure, FiOS is in my estimation the only serious competitor to D* that I can see as far as PQ, and bandwidth cabailities.


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## dtrell (Dec 28, 2007)

mongo31 said:


> No idea, but I too had to get away from DirecTV because the do not offer Erie, PA locals. I had DirecTV in SC for ~8 yrs. Soooooo, I went to F(*&^*^ING TW because of the local issue, BUT Vzon is setting up FiOS near my house ~ June, so I'll see what exactly they offer. Then again. I still might set up my own Slimmy and wing it.


dude, all you had to do is keep D* and get the local only package from TWC for 15 bucks. not only that, you would have gotten the digital locals as well.


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## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

Fios started rolling out in my town last year. I noticed that our cable company has not raised rates, probably because of Fios competition. Competition is good. 

I don't have Fios on my street yet, because we have underground wiring, and they installed overhead wiring first. I've been told by Fios technicians that installation on my street will happen sometime in the spring.

When Fios is available, and my DirecTV contract expires in the summer, I will seriously consider switching. (I am very frustrated with the poor quality of DirecTV's customer service, and the unreliability of my R15 DVR.)


Please stop back after you have Fios for a while, and let us know what you think. I would very much like to hear an honest review.

Thanks.


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

Upstream said:


> Fios started rolling out in my town last year. I noticed that our cable company has not raised rates, probably because of Fios competition. Competition is good.
> 
> I don't have Fios on my street yet, because we have underground wiring, and they installed overhead wiring first. I've been told by Fios technicians that installation on my street will happen sometime in the spring.
> 
> ...


Don't have FIOS in our area, but ATT is rolling out Uverse here. Unfortunately it is really limited as to it's capablities. 1 DVR, 1 HD feed, 3 SD feeds (total of 4 feeds only). It does not look like they will unbundle their tv and internet


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## mjones73 (Jun 20, 2006)

Verizon has been aggressive with FIOS rollouts, they have a lot of money wrapped up in it, they want to make sure it's successful. It's being installed in every area they offer phone coverage nationwide starting with populated areas and working out from there. They claim they will eventually cover their whole customer base.

Friend of mine has it and just got a CableCard enabled MCE pc, he's very happy with it. Hope to check it out this weekend to see how it behaves, of course it's gonna make me want the USB tuner even more I'm sure. 

Where I am Comcast doesn't even offer HD, I doubt I'll see FIOS or anything else for that matter for a couple more years so I'm sticking with Directv for now.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

SPECIES11703 said:


> I don't know if this has happened to anybody else, but here goes. Verizon just recently offered their Fios service in my neighborhood. I switched my internet from Time Warner Cable and I am going to switch my TV service from DirecTV to the Fios TV service. I know that I will be missing out on some of the programming, MLB EI and the NFL Sunday Ticket. But I am going to be paying about $100 less a month having the bundle of Phone, Internet and TV together. Has anybody else noticed this with Verizon coming into their cities. The price is great and the programming is about equal to what DirecTV offers as far as Basic channels but I see Verizon offering 50% more of premium channels Directv has 12 cinemax channels to Directv's 3 and so fourth.


I switched from DirecTV to FiOS TV last April, and to be honest I love it. I really liked my DirecTV service too (although I never had HD with them), but FiOS is definitely better suited to my needs. As others have pointed out - if you are into specific sports packages, FiOS is definitely not for you.

I do have some nits with their service:

- Their DVR isn't as functional as DirecTV's, but it's very easy to use, very robust, and faster than DirecTV's equipment. Although the harddrive is on the small side (just 160 GB for the HD DVR), and it doesn't offer native passthrough for HD resolution.

- Also, because Verizon doesn't additionally compress their feeds (they pass them through as they get them), that smaller harddrive really fills up quickly - when I had DirecTV, my R15 filled up at a rate of 1GB/hour. With FiOS, SD programming fills up at a rate of 2 - 3GB/hour. The difference is the lack of compression. You get an outstanding picture, but at a cost. And HD - holy cow does that suck up space. It depends on the channel (bitrates vary per channel), but some really suck down the space (e.g. HDNet, I found uses up something on the order of 9 - 10 GB/hour). Still, that lack of compression really shows - the picture really is outstanding - both my SD and HD channels look amazing.

As for their hardware - yes they use motorola equipment - very similar to the equipment that Comcast uses. There are some differences. Verizon uses their QIP hardware (you can find the specs for that hardware on motorola's website), which is a hybrid QAM/IP setup. Currently they feed video in via QAM, but other stuff (guide data, VOD, multi-room feeds on their DVR) are all handled via IP.

I have their multi-room setup, which I like alot. It does have some limitations, so if you're thinking about that, let me know (IM me) and I can run down that list with you.

One last thing - the guide. Someone posted about the clunkiness of their guide. I would have agreed up until about 10 days ago. Since then they rolled out their latest s/w to us (our market was the last to get it), and it's a total departure from their old guide. To be honest, some people hate it - and some people love it. It does take some getting used to, but I fall in the 'love it' camp. I think it depends on how you normally do your TV viewing - e.g. I use VOD alot, and the ability to now search on VOD offerings is a very nice feature to me. It's also much faster and more responsive than the old guide. And I finally get DLB again! Granted, it's not as nice as how tivo has it set up, but they added a pared down version with this new guide - with enhancements coming in future updates. Finally, I'll echo what others have said - their internet service really is superb - very fast, and very consistent (no slow periods, e.g., and in my 2 years as a fios internet customer, I had one very brief outage).

Good luck with the install - make sure you have nowhere to go that day - the installers have alot to do to get you set up, and the installs can take a while. One last last thing - the installers I had really were top-notch. They were very curteous, knowledgeable, and thorough. One thing that helps - they are Verizon employees - not subcontractors (at least around here - I don't know if they subcontract the install work elsewhere), and they get paid by the hour - not by the job. So the installers I had really took their time, and made sure everything was working before they left. And again, if you have any questions, feel free to IM me.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

Oh, one more thing I would seriously recommend. Many people are caught off-guard by the difference in channels (e.g. they switch, and they get annoyed when they find out that one channel they HAVE to have isn't there). I don't understand that - it's not like they hide their channel listing or anything. Still, if there are any channels that are important to you, do what I did - go to their website and pull up the channel listings for your area (you put in your zip code). I'd probably recommend sorting the list by channel number (the way they group some channels can make them hard to find in the list, otherwise), or alphabetically. One thing I like, though, is that they are very consistent with their numbering/groupings. For example, when you bring up the list, order it numerically, and look at channel range 1 - 299. Those are your basic channels that you'll get with their Premier package. Go to the 600's, and you'll see the music channels you get (all 95 of them - 47 Music Choice, and 48 Urge channels). Go to the low to mid 800's, and you'll see the HD channels they include with that package (the one exception being the HD premiums, which are part of the various premium packages) - including your locals. The high 800's will have your digital subchannels.

All other add-ons are grouped consistently (e.g. I have their movie pack, which gives me channels 340 - 385, plus Starz, TMC, and Showtime HD). I'd recommend taking a look through the list of channels to make sure they carry channels that are important to you.


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## BobbyK (May 26, 2007)

They just run fiber down my road and it looks like I will go that way too. With my local phone co, I pay $76 a month for dsl 7mb down witch is ridiculous. The triple play will save me a lot of money.


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## jimmymiko (Nov 19, 2005)

jhillestad said:


> Bye - no one cares....


+1


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## ben arnold (Aug 28, 2007)

Upstream said:


> When Fios is available, and my DirecTV contract expires in the summer, I will seriously consider switching. (I am very frustrated with the poor quality of DirecTV's customer service, and the unreliability of my R15 DVR.)
> Thanks.


I've had various Verizon services in the past. You don't really expect that their Customer service will be an improvement do you?


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## man_rob (Feb 21, 2007)

FiOS is coming to my area soon. I will definitely be doing some serious comparing. I have no problem switching services.


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## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

ben arnold said:


> I've had various Verizon services in the past. You don't really expect that their Customer service will be an improvement do you?


Absolutely.

I have Verizon telephone, wireless, and DSL. Although I think their customer service is mediocre (compared to world class customer service companies), it is far better than DirecTV.

In fact, my recent experiences with DirecTV were as bad as the worst cable experiences I had before before I switched to DirecTV 10 years ago.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

ben arnold said:


> I've had various Verizon services in the past. You don't really expect that their Customer service will be an improvement do you?


Actually, that was one of my concerns with switching - I'd had Verizon phone service in years past, and I was well aware of their customer service reputation. All I can say is that, after dealing with their tech support, and their field techs, I came away very very impressed. Right now it's tough to guage because Verizon is going through some growing pains -- some people are talking about excessive wait times and the like to get through to their help desk, e.g. I think alot of that is due to growing pains - they just rolled out their new s/w, they've been offering a very nice triple play deal (including free HDTV for signing up), and they've been growing at a ridiculous rate (40% increase in TV subscribers in the 3rd quarter last year). All of that is stretching their customer support pretty thin. But I think that's pretty short-lived. Early on I had some problems with pixellation - I called several times (it was an intermittent problem, and I would call, they would try something, and I'd have to wait to see if it fixed the problem). My average wait time was probably 5 minutes. Every CSR I talked to was great - they really went out of their way to try to help me.

One really impressed me - after making probably a half-dozen calls trying to get that problem resolved, on one of my last calls to them, I got one CSR who actually did something very novel. He noticed that I was having this continuous problem. So he spent the first couple minutes of the call reading - reading the notes from every prior call I made - he wanted to make sure he wasn't going to just repeat a step that other CSRs had taken.

All in all, it was a bit frustrating to have to call repeatedly but I never got worked up over it because:

a) I got through to someone almost right away.
b) It was a beast of a problem to fix.
c) Every CSR I talked to bent over backwards to help me - I never once got the sense that I was being blown off or not taken seriously.

Does everyone get that level of service every time they call? Of course not - no company is perfect, and I've read my share of CSR horror stories on a couple fios forums. And like I said, within the last couple of months they've gotten really really busy (I've lost count of the number of people here at work who told me that they were signing up). I hope that ebbs soon.


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## ben arnold (Aug 28, 2007)

Upstream said:


> Absolutely.
> 
> I have Verizon telephone, wireless, and DSL. Although I think their customer service is mediocre (compared to world class customer service companies), it is far better than DirecTV.
> 
> In fact, my recent experiences with DirecTV were as bad as the worst cable experiences I had before before I switched to DirecTV 10 years ago.


Wow. Interesting. Although I've found D* customer service to be bad in some cases, I'd never encountered CS as bad as when I was with Verizon for phone. I suppose everyones experiences are different. Best of luck.


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## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

jpl --

I don't expect perfection in customer service. I don't want the run-around, incorrect answers to get you off the phone, and refusal to correct errors.

Although I say my Verizon experience has been better than DirecTV, it hasn't been perfect. The worst experience I had with them was when I was having problems with my DSL connection. I called thge Verizon DSL people, and they told me that the problem was with the phone lines and I had to call the telephone division of Verizon. The phone people told me that the phone lines were fine, and I needed to call the DSL people. After getting this run-around a few times, I sent off an email to Verizon explaining that the whole point of dealing with one company is to avoid this sort of run-around and finger pointing between division. I received a call within an hour from someone who said he worked for the Chairman of Verizon, and within a week the problem was fixed (a defective switch needed to be replaced).


Compare this to the response I received from DirecTV regarding an email I sent in 2006 regarding a run-around I was getting when I called Technical Support. I received an email saying "Thanks for writing us back. I'm sorry to hear about the technical problem you're having. Since it's difficult to troubleshoot technical issues by email, please call our technical support center and discuss the problem with one of our technical representatives. To reach them, just call 1-800-531-5000 and select the option for technical assistance. Thanks again for writing and I apologize for any inconvenience this issue has caused you. Stay tuned to directv.com for the latest news and information about our service." 

Of course, that just led to more of the run-around that prompted me to send the email to DirecTV in the first place.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

Upstream said:


> jpl --
> 
> I don't expect perfection in customer service. I don't want the run-around, incorrect answers to get you off the phone, and refusal to correct errors.
> 
> ...


I agree with you - all companies have their horror stories, and I'll be the first to admit that Verizon is FAR from perfect. I'm just relaying my own personal experiences with their support. I've come away very impressed. I will say, though, that their DSL support is different from the FiOS support - it's a totally different help desk (fios uses the fiber solution center). I have read many a horror story about billing and installation issues. My installs were great, but I've read of a couple of hair-rasing stories. And from what I understand, once you get a billing issue, it's very difficult to clear up. Although, again, that's not been my experience. I haven't had a single billing issue yet. I got a little scared when I added the triple play and movie pack on the same day... and again when I got a letter from them saying "your phone is on a different payment schedule than your internet/tv - we're going to line them up for you..." But both went off without a hitch.


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## SPACEMAKER (Dec 11, 2007)

ben arnold said:


> Wow. Interesting. Although I've found D* customer service to be bad in some cases, I'd never encountered CS as bad as when I was with Verizon for phone. I suppose everyones experiences are different. Best of luck.


The people that whine about D* customer service should try dealing with ATT or Comcast a few times. Dealing with D* customer service is a dream in comparison.:lol:


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## Bill Broderick (Aug 25, 2006)

For those who don't want Fios, due to the Motorola receivers, keep in mind that you can buy Tivo receivers, which will work perfectly with Fios.


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## pratttech (Jan 13, 2008)

SPACEMAKER said:


> The people that whine about D* customer service should try dealing with ATT or Comcast a few times. Dealing with D* customer service is a dream in comparison.:lol:


I would debate this. 

DirecTV Programming is excellent, but DirecTV Customer Service is a true oxymoron.

I've also never had a cable box need to be reset, but in my first week with DirecTV my receiver did need just that and usually more than once a day. This precipitated the need to get intimate with DirecTV CS. I never had to deal with Comcast CS at all, lol. I guess that means they're doing something right. I've found that you'll be told most anything by everyone at D* before you sign-up. Afterwards within three days you're an existing customer and their CS commitment seems to fall off like the Mariana.

Though I signed up in Q4 2007 (and called to confirm), the $20 monthly credit I was promised has been halved to $10 because I have now been told I signed up in a store. I did this to get a retail discount on my HDTV, which is why I had even called them first on this. I also have no LOS to 119, but have OTA so get most locals. The installer told me that it was only locals on that satellite and I could let DirecTV know and get a small credit for no locals. It sounded good to me and I had no reason then not to believe them. I've since found that it also houses ESPN2HD, HDNet, and numerous XM feeds that I can't receive.

They did swap out that first HD receiver last Saturday and this one has been more stable-- only one reset needed in the past week (still 1 more than cable in over four years, hehe). Caller ID still has never worked though. I also wanted to switch to HD DVR as they'd dropped the price in my first week and a tech was already coming out to hand deliver a new receiver. Seemed easy enough to have him bring a HD DVR instead. Sure I was told-- at full price. Now mind you I'm thinking I'm still a new customer. I'd just gotten installed 1/8 and had a new customer $99 credit on my faulty receiver that they are replacing.

Afaic it's their own problem that the original is faulty and they need to come out to replace it already. They did offer to upgrade me to a HD DVR at full price (and take away my "new" receiver). They steadfastly refused to apply any credit to a HD DVR even though the first receiver had never worked properly. Oh yeah-- new customer? Nope was informed rather rudely that after only three days I am not a new customer but an existing customer (even though they've yet to iron out all of the remaining install issues). Yes I can cancel service I was told, but with their early cancel fee because I haven't had 24 months with them yet. LOL-- I've yet to get full service. Getting nowhere with calling in and spending a few days worth of time on the phone in my initial 10 days, I next try to email CS.

Now that is an even bigger joke. You'll quickly get a response thanking you for being a new customer, thanking you for your patience and understanding, apologizing for any inconvenience... That is all you'll get though. I spent another week trying for resolution through email. The last was from writing again last Saturday (at length and copying [email protected] in the hopes to get some resolution happening). After waiting patiently (no calls or emails to DirecTV) since last weekend, I was pretty tired of waiting by last evening and questioned the veracity of their previous emails directly:

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 5:35 PM
To: DIRECTV Customer Service
Subject: xxx

_I just wanted to let you know that we received your email and I have verified that your information was already forwarded to our specialist on 1/18.

I'm sorry that a specialist hasn't contacted you yet.

Rest assured that your email has been escalated and someone will contact you to assist you as soon as possible.

Thanks again for writing and we appreciate your patience and understanding.
_
*Was this a lie?*

To my email I received more of the same:

-----Original Message-----
From: DIRECTV Customer Service
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 1:12 AM
To: xxx
Subject: xxx

Subject 
xxx

Discussion Thread 
Response (xxx) 01/24/2008 10:12 PM 
Dear Sucker (word mine  ),

Thanks for writing for taking time to let us know about your experience and for giving us a chance to respond to your concerns. I'm sorry for the inconvenience that this issue might have caused you.

I just wanted to let you know that we received your email and I have forwarded it to a specialist who will research your email and follow up with you. Please note that due to high volume it may take a few days for a specialist to contact you. For immediate assistance, please call us at 1-800-531-5000.

Thanks again for writing, we appreciate your patience and understanding.

No one ever comments on my missing programming and I still have the same issues with D* that I've had since being installed though they're expecting a full payment (no sign even of the $10 credit) on 1/28:

* H21-200 without Caller ID still non-fully functioning as it is advertised.
* Missing over ten channels from my programming package.
* Credit card is not required in MA or PA, yet somehow when I log into DirecTV.com they had my credit card information already.

Next week will be my full third week with DirecTV and I don't seem to be any closer to resolution. It almost seems like I'm being ignored until I've had their service long enough to truly not be a new customer and they have a precedent in my tacit acceptance of these issues. I am very much considering contacting a lawyer before too much longer as I consider D* to have misrepresented their services and be in fundamental breach of their contract.

I can't believe that I defended their CS in one of my first posts here. 2nd class citizen? More like an illegal immigrant, hehe...


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## mikewolf13 (Jan 31, 2006)

SPECIES11703 said:


> I don't know if this has happened to anybody else, but here goes. Verizon just recently offered their Fios service in my neighborhood. I switched my internet from Time Warner Cable and I am going to switch my TV service from DirecTV to the Fios TV service. I know that I will be missing out on some of the programming, MLB EI and the NFL Sunday Ticket. But I am going to be paying about $100 less a month having the bundle of Phone, Internet and TV together. Has anybody else noticed this with Verizon coming into their cities. The price is great and the programming is about equal to what DirecTV offers as far as Basic channels but I see Verizon offering 50% more of premium channels Directv has 12 cinemax channels to Directv's 3 and so fourth.


I made the switch 3 weeks ago...I also got their new GUI about 10 days ago...So I can not give you a detailed review yet.

In large part because, although the new GUI is easier and prettier to use, I have no manual or guide for the new features.

Even If I had one, i dunno if I'd read it, but every day I find things I didn't know I could do.

I can tell you that I liked the DTIVO more than the R15. I do not like the FIOS DVR as much as I liked my DTIVO, but it is closer to the R15 and has many of the same types of controls that I did like(i.e. PIG and one touch record, two touch series link).

I definately like the additional premium channels....check your local promotions, I will get a 19" HDTV for signing up for their triple play package (Phone, TV, Internet) and also I got a "DVR/MOvies" package for $20/month. Since the DVR is $15 anyway, i basically get Encore and Starz for $5/month..THis was available with HBO also when I signed up...but I understand that promos vary by area. (

The TV promo requires a two year commitment...or no committment, no tv....on the plus side the MOvies/DVR promo price is also good for the entire 2 years.

MY HD has never been better, although I never had MPEG4 with DTV, MY SD looks better on my SD TVs but worse on my HDTV, or so it seems to me (wife agrees on SD on SD but does not see lesser quality with SD on HDTV)

There may be, far less HD than DTV now...but the ones I care about are there. And CSN Philly is unavailable on DTV (damn comcast).

Anyways, If you have specific questions, PM me, I'll be happy to give you my opinion


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## surfmaui03 (Feb 26, 2005)

jhillestad said:


> Bye - no one cares....


-2


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## mikewolf13 (Jan 31, 2006)

pratttech said:


> I can't believe that I defended their CS in one of my first posts here. 2nd class citizen? More like an illegal immigrant, hehe...


I am no fan of DTV Customer service and will not defend them...*but *I would not be surprised if you get a phone call from them attempting to "address" your situation.

Note: I said address and not solve.

I got very canned e-mail repsonses and after I replied twice asking for my specific circumstances and not a cut and paste response, i received a phone call.

This occurred on two different occasions.

So, e-mail a couple more times if you care to do so. I appreciated the attempts but in both cases the resolution was unsatisfactory and that is why I am now a Fios customer


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## rutgersfan (Dec 18, 2006)

directv still has americans answering the phone which is rare these days. and I've never had serious issues with customer service.

these bundles sound good at first, but doesn't the price go way up after a year?


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## Dusty (Sep 21, 2006)

To the OP, how did you come up to $100 saving? If you don't mind, could you list the before and after package price?

FIOS TV is available here. I do not see that kind of cost saving.


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## bfncbs1 (Feb 8, 2007)

Dusty said:


> To the OP, how did you come up to $100 saving? If you don't mind, could you list the before and after package price?
> 
> FIOS TV is available here. I do not see that kind of cost saving.


First and foremost pricing regionally is different based on the competition......

Second my guess is he probably is getting a introductory rate so the savings may be short lived. But overall he will save $$$ in the long run.


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## Blitz68 (Apr 19, 2006)

Good bye.

And the programming is not almost the same.


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## bfncbs1 (Feb 8, 2007)

Blitz68 said:


> Good bye.
> 
> And the programming is not almost the same.


Outside of the sports subscriptions what is so different? To each his or her own....I'm a 12 year subscriber to DTV and very happy with there programming but if somebody was going offer me something better at a huge savings I would leap also.

Do they lack HD in FiOS? Yes today they do........Come October they will be the HD leader.


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## tiger2005 (Sep 23, 2006)

Currently I'm a DirecTV customer, however recently I've been thinking about switching my TV service to FiOS because I'm not very happy about DirecTV's current features on their hardware lineup. With these DirecTV hardware 'upgrades' I'm actually losing features I had in their previous TiVo receivers.

Anyways, I already have FiOS internet service (15/2 Mbps) and I was just reviewing the FiOS TV prices online the other day. I have to say the prices in my area are VERY good. I was able to price out that I can receive all of the current channels I receive now (minus the HD channels and Sunday Ticket), plus add two HD TiVo units, the TiVo monthly fees, and my monthly bill will still be LESS than what I currently pay with DirecTV. Obviously I'd have the upfront cost of the TiVo units, but I'd own those units as opposed to paying a large upfront 'lease' fee to DirecTV when I change equipment. Unfortunately FiOS doesn't have the HD lineup available right now that DirecTV does, which is what would convince me to switch my TV service, but assuming their prices don't rise substantially when they add the HD channels later this year, I think I'll be switching services as well.

The fact that I can switch services, add at least 2 TiVo's with their monthly service fees, not lose any channels (HD excluded), and STILL pay less is pretty amazing to me. It makes me wonder if DirecTV's rates are so much higher because they're paying that huge NFL contract more through their monthly rates because they aren't making enough with Sunday Ticket.


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## SPACEMAKER (Dec 11, 2007)

pratttech said:


> I would debate this.
> 
> DirecTV Programming is excellent, but DirecTV Customer Service is a true oxymoron.
> 
> ...


Still not nearly as bad as Comcast or ATT.


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

bfncbs1 said:


> Outside of the sports subscriptions what is so different? To each his or her own....I'm a 12 year subscriber to DTV and very happy with there programming but if somebody was going offer me something better at a huge savings I would leap also.
> 
> Do they lack HD in FiOS? Yes today they do........Come October they will be the HD leader.


can you ack that statement up with proof? Suspect that directv will still be ahead of them, especially in the sports packages for those that are interested in that stuff


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## bfncbs1 (Feb 8, 2007)

wingrider01 said:


> can you ack that statement up with proof? Suspect that directv will still be ahead of them, especially in the sports packages for those that are interested in that stuff


As long as the HD channels are available FiOS will add it. They are making changes this year to there infrastructure to support it. We know they have the bandwidth to exceed anyone but first there has to be enough qams to support it.

With VZ being required to remove analog by May this will free up enough QAMS to deliver the first wave immediatly. The second wave will come in October that will surpass DTV.

How long will they stay on top? Who knows.......It's a win-win sitation for all. DTV will have to be aggresive to keep up....just as Dish, Comcast, TWC etc.....

Expect upfront cost to come down this year also with the introduction of a new smaller STB.


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## mikewolf13 (Jan 31, 2006)

Dusty said:


> To the OP, how did you come up to $100 saving? If you don't mind, could you list the before and after package price?
> 
> FIOS TV is available here. I do not see that kind of cost saving.


FOr my area for $99 you get FIOS TV with one set top box, The iNternet service and Unlimited phone.

Additional STBs are Either $5, $15, or $20 for a multi-room DVR....where most of my savings dissapeered.. I chose to go with 3 single room DVRs($15 each) instead of one Multi room DVR ($20) and two standard boxes ($5) which can play prorams form the Multi-room DVR

My internet was $45, DTV was about $85 (w/o HD) and my phone was $30....so I saved only about $30, but , *I* also get more for my money....YRMV

Also I have a line running to an old TV...I only get the analog channels 2-49..all local stuff...but I get it without paying for a box on that TV


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

wingrider01 said:


> can you ack that statement up with proof? Suspect that directv will still be ahead of them, especially in the sports packages for those that are interested in that stuff


Here's what he's talking about. In November Verizon came out with a press release for what's coming up for 2008. Here are the highlights:

- 30 additional HD channels starting in spring 2008
- 90 additional HD channels coming throughout the rest of the year (getting them up to 150 channels per market)
- Addition of HD VOD to all markets
- Expansion of HD VOD to 1000 titles by end of 2008
- Expansion of SD channels as well

There is a press release on this, and I can go dig for it if there is some interest (I believe others have posted about this on this forum). And they've announced a couple of deals already for carrying some HD channels (e.g. MGM HD to come later this year).

In the meantime, they've been getting around the HD channel crunch by using HD VOD. The markets that do have it, have indicated that they're seeing shows, e.g., from History HD, even though we currently don't get the History HD channel.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

bfncbs1 said:


> Do they lack HD in FiOS? Yes today they do........*Come October they will be the HD leader.*


:lol: Doubtful, especially since D11 launches in March.


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## Tom White (May 21, 2004)

PoitNarf said:


> My friend just got FiOS installed a few weeks ago and it seems like a fairly good offering. I don't like their receivers though. He got almost the same Motorola box he had with Comcast previously. Guide is pillarboxed, GUI is a little cumbersome. If FiOS were available to me right now I wouldn't switch mostly because DirecTV has superior receivers.
> 
> Best of luck with your choice.


Not even for $100 a month difference?

You must really HATE pillarboxed guides.


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## pratttech (Jan 13, 2008)

SPACEMAKER said:


> Still not nearly as bad as Comcast or ATT.


Oh okay... :lol:

Nice rebuttal. And you offer what as evidence to your claim?

As I stated:

_I've also never had a cable box need to be reset, but in my first week with DirecTV my receiver did need just that and usually more than once a day. This precipitated the need to get intimate with DirecTV CS. I never had to deal with Comcast CS at all, lol. I guess that means they're doing something right._


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

jhillestad said:


> Bye - no one cares....


Obviously some people do, there are some lengthy posts in this thread. If you don't have anything constructive to add how about you refrain from posting?


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## CJTE (Sep 18, 2007)

pratttech said:


> Oh okay... :lol:
> 
> Nice rebuttal. And you offer what as evidence to your claim?
> 
> ...


Ok... Thats a streak of luck.
I've driven ford (trucks) all my life, but I have alot of friends who curse the thought because they've only had bad experience... That doesnt keep my chevy from leaking.

I've yet to HAVE to reset my receiver, unless I was doing a CE, whereas when I had cox cable I had to reset my cable box 1ce/2ce a month. I had cox cable for about 5 years before coming back to DirecTV.


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## pratttech (Jan 13, 2008)

CJTE said:


> Ok... Thats a streak of luck.
> I've driven ford (trucks) all my life, but I have alot of friends who curse the thought because they've only had bad experience... That doesnt keep my chevy from leaking.
> 
> I've yet to HAVE to reset my receiver, unless I was doing a CE, whereas when I had cox cable I had to reset my cable box 1ce/2ce a month. I had cox cable for about 5 years before coming back to DirecTV.


As I noted the hardware stability is now vastly improved with the original receiver replaced-- 1 reset only in last week compared to something like 12 in the previous week with my original receiver. I have been on the national release with both boxes so I don't think your CE assessment is really relevant. Regardless of hardware failure or any luck involved,_ my point was to illustrate the quality of D* customer service, not their equipment._


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## Brandon428 (Mar 21, 2007)

PoitNarf said:


> Obviously some people do, there are some lengthy posts in this thread. If you don't have anything constructive to add how about you refrain from posting?


Amen!


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## stogie5150 (Feb 21, 2006)

pratttech said:


> I would debate this.
> 
> DirecTV Programming is excellent, but DirecTV Customer Service is a true oxymoron.
> 
> ...


Just wait until you try to cancel and get them to send you the kits for the receivers/DVR's. It took me a MONTH and multiple emails to get them to send the boxes. Phone calls didn't help either, as one hand didn't know what the other one was doing....

Once Uncle Sam gives me the money I overpaid in taxes last year I am going to sever my relationship with D*. My owned SD receivers are in a box in the closet, and the dish went out with the trash.

I've been a D* customer since 1996. Last time I called to check on my extortion fee to break the contract I couldn't refuse, retention offered to GIVE me a HDDVR if I would just STAY. I told them NO. No HD TIVO, No sale.:grin:

I can't WAIT to see how this goes....:lol:

You're NOT alone. Not EVERYBODY is thrilled with D* anymore.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

We've had FIOS availability for a long time (I think my neighborhood was the 3rd in the country). They're always trying to "snag" me. We do have their phone and internet, but just couldn't do their TV. For one, when I priced it out it was more expensive than D*. For two, their DVR is a piece of crap. A good DVR is very important to me. So is the ability to upgrade the HD. Can't do that with FIOS either. They also don't have discreet IR codes, so you can't have more than one DVR in the same room (unless you keep manually blocking the IR of one of them to use the remote). We have to have duel DVR's. 
My next door neighbor has FIOS and I can't see any difference in the PQ between FIOS and D* (in HD or SD). Now, maybe if they were side by side, I'd see a difference, but don't know for sure.
Add into the equation that D* has so much more HD and they listen to their customers and are constantly improving their product and staying with D* is a no-brainer.


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## SPACEMAKER (Dec 11, 2007)

pratttech said:


> Oh okay... :lol:
> 
> Nice rebuttal. And you offer what as evidence to your claim?
> 
> ...


Evidence? Since I don't have mp3 recordings of my numerous phone conversations with the idiots at Comcast and ATT I guess I have no real evidence. All I can tell you is that they are terrible. Multiple billing issues, bold faced lies, multiple service interruptions, inept CSR's, etc. etc.

Since I've dropped Comcast Cable and ATT phone service and signed up for Vonage and DirecTV my life has been much less stressful. I saved a bunch of money, get more HD and better reliability and anytime I've had any questions on either Vonage or D* the reps have been courteous and knowledgable and able to take care of the issue at hand in an extremely efficient manner.


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## pratttech (Jan 13, 2008)

SPACEMAKER said:


> Evidence? Since I don't have mp3 recordings of my numerous phone conversations with the idiots at Comcast and ATT I guess I have no real evidence. All I can tell you is that they are terrible. Multiple billing issues, bold faced lies, multiple service interruptions, inept CSR's, etc. etc.


I don't have recordings either nor do I expect recordings-- but perhaps you'd care to back up your allegations with specific details of your CS experiences as I did... Recordings... :lol:



SPACEMAKER said:


> Since I've dropped Comcast Cable and ATT phone service and signed up for Vonage and DirecTV my life has been much less stressful.


??? - Relevance? 



SPACEMAKER said:


> I saved a bunch of money, get more HD and better reliability and anytime I've had any questions on either Vonage or D* the reps have been courteous and knowledgable and able to take care of the issue at hand in an extremely efficient manner.


Given the findings of folks posting who are leaving D* for better package offers from their cabled competitors, this also is still highly debatable. Of course one's mileage may certainly vary. Still *your positive experiences in no way negates or substantiates the shoddy customer service that I and others have been experiencing. I've been a customer for only three weeks with these constant and unanswered issues!* 

Were this an isolated incident I'd be more than happy to give the benefit of doubt. For me this is their service. I've never seen the promised land you describe. *As it is I am on my third week without anyone even responding to my billing and programming issues let alone offering any sort of resolution. From similar posts I am far from alone in this sort of treatment.* All I can say is give them time and perhaps you too will be [email protected]&#'ed by them. :eek2:


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## Grydlok (Mar 31, 2007)

My neighbor switched to Fios than switched back to Directv. They couldn't stand the slow channel changing and guide.


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## SPACEMAKER (Dec 11, 2007)

pratttech said:


> I don't have recordings either nor do I expect recordings-- but perhaps you'd care to back up your allegations with specific details of your CS experiences as I did... Recordings... :lol:
> 
> ??? - Relevance?
> 
> ...


Perhaps. Anything is possible. The thing about the reports of negative CSR experiences is that people always talk about them. If a person makes 100 calls to any given company and only one of the reports is bad then all the sudden the 99 poitive results are ignored. The same thing goes for this board. People just like to come here and *****. It's the same with any message board. Negativity will always dominate because people like to vent.


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## Hound (Mar 20, 2005)

SPECIES11703 said:


> I don't know if this has happened to anybody else, but here goes. Verizon just recently offered their Fios service in my neighborhood. I switched my internet from Time Warner Cable and I am going to switch my TV service from DirecTV to the Fios TV service. I know that I will be missing out on some of the programming, MLB EI and the NFL Sunday Ticket. But I am going to be paying about $100 less a month having the bundle of Phone, Internet and TV together. Has anybody else noticed this with Verizon coming into their cities. The price is great and the programming is about equal to what DirecTV offers as far as Basic channels but I see Verizon offering 50% more of premium channels Directv has 12 cinemax channels to Directv's 3 and so fourth.


I have Fios triple play and I am very happy with it. The Fios TV is really good,
especially what is offered in Central New Jersey. And you are right, it does save a lot of money. However, I also just added Directv for MSG HD, FSNY HD, MLB EI HD games, NBA LP HD games, and NHL CI HD games. But I have always had two
services, cable and satellite to get sports programming that one offers and the
other does not. Also, I like to have two games on at the same time on different TVs, so I need two services. In Central NJ, Fios provides me with SNY HD, CSN
Phila HD (which is not on satellite) and YES HD. Also Fios gives me NY and Phila
HD locals without any sports blackout. But Fios does not yet have MLB EI,
NBA LP, NHL CI and it will never have Sunday Ticket. So if you can afford two
services, Fios and D* is a dynamite combination. If you only want one service
and save money Fios is the way to go. However, I would not switch to Fios, if
Fios did not have your favorite sports channels in HD, and D* did.

I also have E* and was using E* for MLB EI, NBA LP and NHL CI, but now that
I am hooked up to D*, I will be canceling E*. In terms of HD games, NBA LP
on D* is far superior to E*. I have been watching the NBA LP preview this week
on D*. Last night, E* had no HD games, virtually every game on D* was HD.
I am tempted to pay D* $99 and just cancel E* now.


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## pratttech (Jan 13, 2008)

SPACEMAKER said:


> Perhaps. Anything is possible. The thing about the reports of negative CSR experiences is that people always talk about them. If a person makes 100 calls to any given company and only one of the reports is bad then all the sudden the 99 poitive results are ignored. The same thing goes for this board. People just like to come here and *****. It's the same with any message board. Negativity will always dominate because people like to vent.


So post your positive experience, lol.

Reread my post too. It isn't one bad call. It is many many calls and many many emails. It is my entire experience with D* in the short time I've been their customer. I am not here to ***** needlessly. I am actually hoping to resolve my issues with DirecTV-- as I stated initially here I do consider their programming offering excellent. That is not the issue however.

As this can be an objective board at times I was hoping someone here might have some insight that could help. Your fanboy attitude and unsubstantiated responses to my valid complaints are irksome. Reread my post in the 2nd class citizens thread. I was willing to give D* the benefit of doubt at one time.

I admit that I have really soured on D* and that my own tone has changed vastly in ten days or so. However I would contend that any negativity you find from me here has entirely been created by my D* customer service (actually lack thereof) experience. Do you have anything to add that could actually help me resolve these programming and billing issues?


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## SPACEMAKER (Dec 11, 2007)

pratttech said:


> So post your positive experience, lol.
> 
> Reread my post too. It isn't one bad call. It is many many calls and many many emails. It is my entire experience with D* in the short time I've been their customer. I am not here to ***** needlessly. I am actually hoping to resolve my issues with DirecTV-- as I stated initially here I do consider their programming offering excellent. That is not the issue however.
> 
> ...


So I guess understanding how to operate my equipment, not having issues with CSRs, billing or anything else makes me a fan boy.:lol:

As far as your problems with your box goes I guess you should probably try another approach because what you are currently doing doesn't seem to be getting you anywhere. You may want to have someone call who is skilled in the art of influence and getting results.


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## pratttech (Jan 13, 2008)

SPACEMAKER said:


> So I guess understanding how to operate my equipment, not having issues with CSRs, billing or anything else makes me a fan boy.:lol:
> 
> As far as your problems with your box goes I guess you should probably try another approach because what you are currently doing doesn't seem to be getting you anywhere. You may want to have someone call who is skilled in the art of influence and getting results.


Where are you getting this? What other approach do you suggest?

REREAD my posts. As I said already my initial box clearly had hardware issues given the relative problem free week with the new receiver. Try to stick to one thing and make a point. Insulting me that I don't know how to operate the receiver, which is not true and completely besides any point here even if it were; is just the last defense of the ignorant. :nono2:


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

spartanstew said:


> We've had FIOS availability for a long time (I think my neighborhood was the 3rd in the country). They're always trying to "snag" me. We do have their phone and internet, but just couldn't do their TV. For one, when I priced it out it was more expensive than D*. For two, their DVR is a piece of crap. A good DVR is very important to me. So is the ability to upgrade the HD. Can't do that with FIOS either. They also don't have discreet IR codes, so you can't have more than one DVR in the same room (unless you keep manually blocking the IR of one of them to use the remote). We have to have duel DVR's.
> My next door neighbor has FIOS and I can't see any difference in the PQ between FIOS and D* (in HD or SD). Now, maybe if they were side by side, I'd see a difference, but don't know for sure.
> Add into the equation that D* has so much more HD and they listen to their customers and are constantly improving their product and staying with D* is a no-brainer.


I'm not going to question your desire to stay with DirecTV, but what you said about the DVR is partially true. No, you can't upgrade the harddrive... but to say 'you can't do that with fios' isn't quite right. You have one option with fios that you no longer have with directv - at least not easily - you can get a tivo off the shelf, get a cable card or two from verizon, and you're good to go. Voila, a state of the art DVR that's expandable.

As for the PQ, I think there are too many variables to make an adequate comparison like that. What type of TV does your neighbor have? How is the box connected? All that - to get a real feel for it you have to run side by side on your set up. And all I can say is that the SD with my fios set up really is much sharper than anything I had with DirecTV. And like I said, I really liked my DirecTV set up. The SD picture was really nice with DirecTV (again, never had their HD). But 5 minutes of watching fios and I saw the difference. I saw no blocking, e.g., because the signal is as pure as you can get - there was no additional compression.

As for the pricing - all I can say is that the pricing depends on your setup. If you have 5 DVRs, then it really is a no-brainer - due to their pricing structure DirecTV would most definitely be cheaper. But for most average customers, the price with fios would probably be lower - even without the triple play discount. Even with their just-announced price increase, they charge $45/month for their Premier package - that gives you all your basic cable channels (excluding premiums and the like) and gives you HD. The equivalent price for DirecTV would be what $25 - $30 more per month? What gets you is the equipment cost - that's where things can get pricey with fios (or traditional cable). I have their multi-room DVR with a second set top box and I pay $25/month in equipment cost. And that was the equivalent of what I had with DirecTV (two R15s - total equipment fee of $11/month). But again, you don't pay up front for the equipment (I spent $100 for my first R15 to lease it), and there's no required contract. But even with the additional $14/month in equipment fees, my bill is still lower than what it would have been with DirecTV, even without the triple play discount.

Again, not trying to slam DirecTV, or your decision to stay, but some of what you said isn't totally accurate.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

jpl said:


> I'm not going to question your desire to stay with DirecTV, but what you said about the DVR is partially true. No, you can't upgrade the harddrive... but to say 'you can't do that with fios' isn't quite right. You have one option with fios that you no longer have with directv - at least not easily - you can get a tivo off the shelf, get a cable card or two from verizon, and you're good to go. Voila, a state of the art DVR that's expandable.


Nope, what I said was 100% true. Sure, you can get tivo. You can do that with Comcast or any other cable provider too. My statements were for their DVR. If people want to spend the $500 (or so) per DVR and the $15 (or so) monthly fee for each one, that's their prerogative. I look for an integrated solution.



jpl said:


> As for the PQ, I think there are too many variables to make an adequate comparison like that. What type of TV does your neighbor have? How is the box connected? All that - to get a real feel for it you have to run side by side on your set up. And all I can say is that the SD with my fios set up really is much sharper than anything I had with DirecTV. And like I said, I really liked my DirecTV set up. The SD picture was really nice with DirecTV (again, never had their HD). But 5 minutes of watching fios and I saw the difference. I saw no blocking, e.g., because the signal is as pure as you can get - there was no additional compression.


You're correct there's variables. However, my TV and my neighbors were both calibrated by me (and hooked up correctly and with the correct cables) and I know what to look for when comparing TV's. 
I don't have any compression on SD or HD. Additionally, as an FYI, FIOS does use compression.



jpl said:


> As for the pricing - all I can say is that the pricing depends on your setup. If you have 5 DVRs, then it really is a no-brainer - due to their pricing structure DirecTV would most definitely be cheaper. But for most average customers, the price with fios would probably be lower - even without the triple play discount. Even with their just-announced price increase, they charge $45/month for their Premier package - that gives you all your basic cable channels (excluding premiums and the like) and gives you HD. The equivalent price for DirecTV would be what $25 - $30 more per month? What gets you is the equipment cost - that's where things can get pricey with fios (or traditional cable). I have their multi-room DVR with a second set top box and I pay $25/month in equipment cost. And that was the equivalent of what I had with DirecTV (two R15s - total equipment fee of $11/month). But again, you don't pay up front for the equipment (I spent $100 for my first R15 to lease it), and there's no required contract. But even with the additional $14/month in equipment fees, my bill is still lower than what it would have been with DirecTV, even without the triple play discount.
> 
> Again, not trying to slam DirecTV, or your decision to stay, but some of what you said isn't totally accurate.


Yep, you're right, it depends on the situation. I would think that the average family will want more than 2 receivers though. Most families I know have at least 4 receivers of one kind or another (SD, HD, DVR, etc.), and as you mention, those equipment costs do add up.

Besides, up front equipment for new customers with D* are pretty minimal and if you're patient you can get equipment pretty cheap as a current customer too (My latest DVR is the first one I've ever paid more than $50 for - out of 8- and that's only because I didn't want to wait another 2 months when I would have probably qualified for a discount again).

Competition is always good.



jpl said:


> Again, not trying to slam DirecTV, or your decision to stay, but some of what you said isn't totally accurate.


Actually, everything I said is accurate (your views on Tivo aren't relevant to the discussion - or at least my point).


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

$500 per DVR?! Where are you shopping? You can get the Tivo HD for less than $250. And I'm sorry, but what you were saying is not quite right. With fios, and yes with most other cable companies, you have the option of getting a tivo. It gives you the capabilities that you're talking about. It's not irrelevent at all. For about the same price as the lease fee for an HR20, you can buy a tivo HD. And yes, you'll pay a little more per month for service fees, but if you structure it right, it may actually be less. Lease fee for the HD DVR through fios is $16/month. Lease fee for a cable card is $3/month. If you prepay for 3 years with tivo, you can get their service for less than $9/month. So, for a lower monthly fee, you can get a fully flexible, fully expandable dvr through Tivo. The same can't be said for DirecTV. It is an option that you have in going with fios.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

To clarify one other point - fios does not add compression. Any signals that are already compressed when verizon receives them will obviously be compressed when we receive them. But Verizon doesn't do any additional compression. All digital channels are compressed to some extent, but most providers do additional compression. Verizon does not.


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## pratttech (Jan 13, 2008)

Have some friends in the MA towns which do offer FIOS. For some been three years already, but we're still waiting in my town...


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## Hound (Mar 20, 2005)

spartanstew said:


> We've had FIOS availability for a long time (I think my neighborhood was the 3rd in the country). They're always trying to "snag" me. We do have their phone and internet, but just couldn't do their TV. For one, when I priced it out it was more expensive than D*. For two, their DVR is a piece of crap. A good DVR is very important to me. So is the ability to upgrade the HD. Can't do that with FIOS either. They also don't have discreet IR codes, so you can't have more than one DVR in the same room (unless you keep manually blocking the IR of one of them to use the remote). We have to have duel DVR's.
> My next door neighbor has FIOS and I can't see any difference in the PQ between FIOS and D* (in HD or SD). Now, maybe if they were side by side, I'd see a difference, but don't know for sure.
> Add into the equation that D* has so much more HD and they listen to their customers and are constantly improving their product and staying with D* is a no-brainer.


I have both Fios and D* and I have one Fios DVR and one Fios HD set top
box in the same room. You are correct about discreet IR codes. I get around it
by having each box on each side of the TV. I also have one HR 21, Sony HDD 500
and E* 722 in the same room. D*s pricing is pretty good. I am paying $75 a month
for HDDVR Plus with two HR 21s. Which I think is pretty good. Much cheaper than E*. With Fios I am paying $106.90 (including $10 triple play credit) a month for two HD DVRS, two HD set top boxes, one SD set top box, HBO, movies and sports
(and $32.98 a month triple play savings on phone and 20/5 Internet). My Fios pricing is locked in until February 2010.
D* under the new pricing would be about $140 a month if I went to Premier and HD with five set top boxes. D*'s PQ is very good. I have side by side Panasonic plasmas. Had ESPN HD on Fios and D* for the installer last week, side by side. He could not tell the difference. I have not really had time to do a side by side comparison. But when I can I will. I can tell you though the HD PQ is very close. Fios provides me with some HD sports that D* does not have and D* provides me with a lot of HD sports that Fios does not have. That is the main difference for me.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

jpl said:


> And I'm sorry, but what you were saying is not quite right. With fios, and yes with most other cable companies, you have the option of getting a tivo.


Apology accepted.

But I am right.

I was talking about the FIOS DVR being a piece of junk. That's accurate. I was talking about the limitations of their DVR. Which are also accurate.

I wasn't talking about all the 3rd party applications that someone might be able to use with various cable or satellite sources. They're irrelevant to the discussion. The discussion is comparing FIOS to D*.

Not FIOS with Tivo or Fios with Moxi or Fios with any other 3rd party DVR/service VS. D* with a DVD burner or D* to VHS or any other combination that you want to come up with.

FIOS vs D*. That's it. Any other question?


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## Sneezy (Dec 18, 2006)

ben arnold said:


> I've had various Verizon services in the past. You don't really expect that their Customer service will be an improvement do you?


It can't possible be any worse that TWC (which I have now and HATE, or when I had DTV and had crappy equipment.)


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

spartanstew said:


> Apology accepted.
> 
> But I am right.
> 
> ...


No, that's not correct. You were talking about the verizon DVR - yes, that part's correct. And you made statements saying that it's not expandable (again that's correct - but then neither is the HR20, but let's set that aside for now). You then said 'you can't do that with fios.' You didn't say 'you can't do that with the DVR that verizon uses.' The message you conveyed was that you couldn't get an expandable DVR to use with fios and that's simply not correct. You can. As for the DVR being a piece of garbage, I do dispute that. No it's not as functional as the R15s I used to have, but it's also fast (compared to my old R15s it's lightning quick), insanely easy to use, and reliable - it records what I tell it to. I don't have to worry about baby-sitting it. I used to have to do that with my R15s - don't get me wrong, I liked the R15 - I think it has alot of potential as a platform, but it's clear that it has memory issues.


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## Grydlok (Mar 31, 2007)

jpl said:


> To clarify one other point - fios does not add compression. Any signals that are already compressed when verizon receives them will obviously be compressed when we receive them. But Verizon doesn't do any additional compression. All digital channels are compressed to some extent, but most providers do additional compression. Verizon does not.


Verizon uses Mpeg2 compression for now. until they switch to true IPTV . Motorola showed off their Mpeg4 irds, and said they will be ready to be shipped out by this summer. Everyone uses some form of compression. It it what their backbone can support.


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## loudo (Mar 24, 2005)

Call it FIOS or what ever you want, it is just another cable company. I would never switch to it, and get less programing than DirecTV has. FIOS has only 17 national HD channels, compared to the 85 of DirecTV. They offer no national RSN package or many of the sports packages the others offer. Plus they are out of their minds with that $15.00 a month HD DVR fee. Going to FIOS is a move back wards in my eyes.


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## Grydlok (Mar 31, 2007)

spartanstew said:


> Apology accepted.
> 
> But I am right.
> 
> ...


When Verizon came to my door about FIOSTV I looked at the prices for what I wanted and was like no thanks. I have a DVR in every room. at 17 bucks each, that added up. I added the movie packages and that triple play discount just went bye bye. I took the internet, but the prices has going up twice since I got locked into my contract. I'm scared that once I'm out of contract my price might be close to 60 dollars for 15meg service. Comcast is only 54 for the same speed in my area. I can see Verizon doesn't have the desire to be lower price alternatives to cable but just an alternative.


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## Grydlok (Mar 31, 2007)

loudo said:


> Call it FIOS or what ever you want, it is just another cable company. I would never switch to it, and get less programing than DirecTV has. FIOS has only 17 national HD channels, compared to the 85 of DirecTV. They offer no national RSN package or many of the sports packages the others offer. Plus their out of their minds with that $15.00 a month HD DVR fee. Going to FIOS is a move back wards in my eyes.


Man my neighbors took the triple play package Jan 2. Installed on Jan 5. Bragged to me about it. Jan 22 came back to D*. All I could get from them was F** guide is crap.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

jpl said:


> No, that's not correct. You were talking about the verizon DVR - yes, that part's correct. And you made statements saying that it's not expandable (again that's correct - but then neither is the HR20, but let's set that aside for now). You then said 'you can't do that with fios.' You didn't say 'you can't do that with the DVR that verizon uses.'


Dude, come on. What is this, third grade? We're talking about D* and FIOS. How many times do I have to say it?

I don't care what you can do with other 3rd party equipment. I don't care what you can do with it on D* and I don't care what you can do with it on FIOS. If your wife's fat, it doesn't matter that she _could_ spend a bunch of money and get a bunch of lypo and might be thinner. That's irrelevant. She's fat.

I have to qualify every single sentence by putting the word FIOS in it? That's retarded. IT'S ABOUT THE FIOS DVR. Stop saying it's about anything else and trying to put words in my mouth.

THE FIOS DVR SUCKS. IT'S NOT EXPANDABLE. IT DOESN'T HAVE DISCREET IR CODES. IT'S EXPENSIVE. Those are facts. Quit trying to muddy the waters with your "IF you get Tivo" or "but you could get tivo" responses. If "ifs" and "buts" were candy and nuts, we'd all have a happy f__ing xmas. But they're not.

And yes, the HR20 is expandable, so no need for you to put that aside either. I have 1TB of storage on mine right now.

Just stop the BS. I'm done, I've proved my point and everybody reading this (except you apparently) knows exactly what I'm talking about and that you're just being obtuse.


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## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

Sounds like time to take it to PM.


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## pratttech (Jan 13, 2008)

Sorry in advance for the lengthy post. I am just so extremely frustrated and I don't know where else to turn. This board has been the best place for objective and useful D* information-- far better than DirecTV's own forum. I am just really at my wit's end with D*!



mikewolf13 said:


> I am no fan of DTV Customer service and will not defend them...*but *I would not be surprised if you get a phone call from them attempting to "address" your situation.
> 
> Note: I said address and not solve.
> 
> ...


Still still nothing from D* to resolve my issues with them and my first bill is due Monday (tomorrow). Any idea how long it takes them on average to respond? It has been a few weeks now. I really would prefer to resolve the issues I have with D* and remain their customer as I do enjoy their programming. I am just not comfortable with their employee's false representations made in order to get my business, and want at minimum a credit for my missing channels and the full Q4 2007 rebate promised as well.

To be honest what frustrates me most is not really the wait, but their moronic responses that seek to placate without actually doing anything for the problem. Imho if D* is unwilling to meet the commitments their installers and sales reps make to new customers, then they should not be surprised when their customers don't stay and fight any early cancel fee they try to apply. If I leave their service it will be because they did not meet their commitments, not because I want to cancel.

I'd written DirecTV customer service (and then moved to copying Chase Carey as well) quite a few times asking to resolve this amicably. All I've gotten each time is a canned response, the latest being:

_From: DIRECTV Customer Service
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 1:12 AM
To: (Me)
Subject: RE: Extremely Frustrated DirecTV Customer [Reference #: xxx-xxx] [Reference #: xxx-xxx]

Subject 
RE: Extremely Frustrated DirecTV Customer [Reference #: xxx-xxx]

Discussion Thread 
Response (xxx) 01/24/2008 10:12 PM 
Dear xxx,

Thanks for writing for taking time to let us know about your experience and for giving us a chance to respond to your concerns. I'm sorry for the inconvenience that this issue might have caused you.

I just wanted to let you know that we received your email and I have forwarded it to a specialist who will research your email and follow up with you. Please note that due to high volume it may take a few days for a specialist to contact you. For immediate assistance, please call us at 1-800-531-5000.

Thanks again for writing, we appreciate your patience and understanding.

Sincerely,

xxx
Employee ID xxx
DIRECTV Customer Service_

Few days, few weeks; what's the difference apparently... I guess if one replies to them on an established thread that resets their few days clock? I can't explain their lack of useful response any other way. This morning I awoke to some sort of reply from D* (got hopeful for exactly half a second it took to read) stating that my email sent to the CEO over a week ago was deleted without being read:

_-----Original Message-----
From: DIRECTV Customer Service [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 2:17 AM
To: (Me)
Subject: Not read: Extremely Frustrated DirecTV Customer
Importance: High

Your message

To: Carey, Chase
Cc: DIRECTV Customer Service
Subject: Extremely Frustrated DirecTV Customer
Sent: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 08:09:48 -0800

was deleted without being read on Sat, 26 Jan 2008 23:17:24 -0800_

Though I really would like their immediate assistance on this, calling previously got me nowhere and actually disconnected a few times as they transferred me from person to person without any resolution. It wasted much more of my time calling them than it did writing email that could be passed along to someone who might actually be able to resolve my programming and billing issues. At least that is what I thought. After more than a week at least now I'm sure where my email has ended up-- in the garbage.

It appears that my next steps will be to call the various consumer protection hot lines set up in my state for guidance on this, file complaints with the Massachusetts Attorney General, Department of Telecommunications and Cable (perhaps the FCC too), and then follow my complaints up with a snail mail demand letter pursuant to the provisions of Massachusetts General Laws, Chapter 93A, Section 9, the Consumer Protection Act. Interestingly I've found that D* was already in trouble just two years ago with 21 states (Massachusetts included) to settle an investigation into its marketing and advertising practices.

In the mean time, I will pay my full bill so that they have no issue against me. MA law awards double and treble damages so I will continue to pay for that reason alone. I've been reading horror stories about them making several hundred dollar withdrawls from folks checking accounts without permission. I almost hope they do hit up my checking account up too since as somehow got my debit card number (from my Circuit City payment I'm assuming) though that too is illegal in MA.

I am just very surprised by my experience. Given the number of people who defend D* around here there must be some really good customer service out there for folks to be so passionate about their TV provider. Unfortunately it seems that there is not enough to go around for all their customers. The CSRs I spoke with were very matter-of-fact in telling me I won't get the promised promotion and credits for absent programming, but that I would get an early cancel fee if I cancel.

They said they had no record of my call before ordering and wanted to know if I knew the CSRs name that I spoke with. As I did not expect this abuse, I admitted I had not gotten any name. They then told me that the installer was not their employee. Well given that I was a new customer and did not know all that I do know now about their business practice, their boldly logoed DirecTV van sure was misleading then.

It seems that quite a few D* employees are on this board and I would very much like to hear some suggestions here to salvage the situation. Beyond that I'm curious to know if anyone else out there has contested their customer agreement if this all becomes necessary should DirecTV's continue to ignore me and not honor these commitments. With my legal findings so far, does this sound like the right track?


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## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

spartanstew said:


> I'm done, I've proved my point and everybody reading this (except you apparently) knows exactly what I'm talking about and that you're just being obtuse.


Or vice versa.


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## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

pratttech said:


> Still still nothing from D* to resolve my issues with them and my first bill is due Monday (tomorrow). Any idea how long it takes them on average to respond? It has been a few weeks now.


My experience is that they will never really respond. You may get a perfunctory response such as "thank you for writing, we will look into the issue", or "thank you for writing, please call for more assistance."

But unless you continue hound them, they will never send you a real response addressing or solving your issues.


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## pratttech (Jan 13, 2008)

Upstream said:


> ...unless you continue hound them, they will never send you a real response addressing or solving your issues.


Thanks for your candor Upstream. As a new customer of D* I am still having a very hard time reconciling all the positive things folks have posted regarding their customer service if this is the effort that it will take me to actually be served honestly and fairly as their customer.

On another slightly amusing note I received a sales letter from D* yesterday telling me that they missed me and want me back! LOL, did they have a premonition? I haven't left yet, and was never a previous customer. I'm not sure how this happened.

The part I found most amusing was that right smack dab in the middle of their bright advert is the statement "DIRECTV IS #1 IN CUSTOMER SATISFACTION (2)" Looking for the 2 at the bottom and grabbing my magnifier to read this fine print, one sees their caveat (reproduced at legible size for your viewing pleasure-- emphasis mine):

(2) 2007 American Customer Satsfaction Index, University of Michigan Business School. Among the largest U.S. Cable & Satellite TV providers, _*tied with DISH Network for the highest ACSI*_ score in 2007.


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## Hound (Mar 20, 2005)

The Fios DVR is not expandable, has a small hard drive and does not have discreet
IR codes. However, the basic functionality of recording a show and the quick speed of the software has made it my favorite DVR to use over and above the
much ballyhooed Dish 622/722 (both of which I have). 

My favorite use of the Fios DVR is to start watching either a baseball, basketball
or ice hockey game at 7:00PM and at about 8:20 go to shows I am recording
such as Prison Break (so I can fast forward through the ads). After watching
Prison Break for a while, I hit the black button on the Fios DVR and go right
back to the ball game for maybe 2,3 to 5 minutes, then I go back to Prison
Break (which is still recording) and the Fios DVR takes me right back to where I
left off. Neither the Dish Network 622 or 722 does this. When you exit out of
a show that you are recording on the Dish Network DVR, you have to go back
to the beginning and fast forward to where you left off. Now, I have not
yet tried this with my HR 21.

I am favorably impressed with the HR 21 and the hard drive is twice the size of
the Fios DVR. But the HR 21 software is much slower. I am sure that D* will
eventually get the software upgraded and make it faster. The Fios DVR is functional and when I went on vacation for 16 days last summer, it did not miss
one show that I set up to record. So the Fios DVR is functional enough if you
like the Fios programming. The programming is more important than the DVR. 
The real issue in choosing between D* and Fios is which provider has your
favorite channels in HD. In my case because of Comcast Sportsnet Phila HD, I would have to choose Fios over D*. All because of one channel which D* cannot get it. But in other areas of the US, the D* HD channel programming and HD
sports packages easily beats out Fios.


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## pratttech (Jan 13, 2008)

What has FIOS or its DVR offering to do with DBS? Why the discussion comparing Dish, D*, and FIOS receivers in this thread? 

I'd probably be more receptive if FIOS were a valid option at my address. As it is it is not, and really has nothing to do with the reasons one might leave D*, or figure out a way to stay; I'm worried that the leaving part of the discussion is getting sidelined. I know the OP mentioned another service, but I was drawn in by the title of the thread. 

Perhaps a discussion of each service's DVR merits is needed, but how about in one of the receiver forums? I've invested a lot of time and writing here as to why I might leave D* though I really would prefer not to. Perhaps we could keep the discussion to leaving DirecTV rather than it's alternatives? (FIOS is not option for a large percentage of the US).

I apologize if I offend anyone. That is certainly not my intent here. I am just so extremely frustrated and I don't know where else to turn.


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## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

Pratt --

DirecTV does a pretty good job handling routine customer service issues. It is when they make a mistake or if you have an unusual problem that things start to snowball out of control. I believe that the problem with DirecTV's customer service is based in DirecTV's policies, processes, and systems which are confusing and have limitations in design. This makes it difficult or impossible for a customer service rep to solve your problem, even if they want to. On top of that, there does not seem to be anyone accountable for solving each issue, so many just drag on until the customer fights enough, or gives up.


Regarding the Customer Satisfaction scores, it is true that of the major cable/satellite companies, DirecTV has the highest customer satisfaction scores. Note, this is customer satisfaction, not customer service scores. Considering the quality of DirecTV's product (regarding digital signal delivery, rarity of lengthy outages, and wide selection of HD), it is not surprising that customer satisfaction at DirecTV is higher than most cable companies. But customer service at DirecTV probably keeps overall satisfaction near that of other cable companies. 

Also note, that although customer satisfaction at DirecTV is slightly higher than other cable companies, it is no where near the customer satisfaction scores of companies in other industries with reputations for good customer service and good customer satisfaction.

DirecTV's customer satisfaction is slightly better than other cable companies, and about the same as the IRS.


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## bfncbs1 (Feb 8, 2007)

sigma1914 said:


> :lol: Doubtful, especially since D11 launches in March.


Yea but launching is a slow process.......and your still limted in capacity and to win the HD war you need the infrastructure to be in place. What happens after D11? D12 in 1-2 years? They could be very well behind by then.

The more important question really is will the content and channels be there......Providers will create the capacity.


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## pratttech (Jan 13, 2008)

Upstream said:


> Note, this is customer satisfaction, not customer service scores. Considering the quality of DirecTV's product (regarding digital signal delivery, rarity of lengthy outages, and wide selection of HD), it is not surprising that customer satisfaction at DirecTV is higher than most cable companies. But customer service at DirecTV probably keeps overall satisfaction near that of other cable companies.


Good point. Thanks again Upstream. To your argument I have been very satisfied with the channels (and quality of the signal) that I do receive from D*. It is their customer service and the false statements I was told before being a customer that I have issues with.



Upstream said:


> DirecTV's customer satisfaction is slightly better than other cable companies, and about the same as the IRS.


Nice, lol! I've had dealings with the IRS before... At least then I had a CPA with power of attorney saving me the time and trouble of negotiating that bureaucracy myself. I really don't want to spend as much here as I did on my CPA.

I'm only talking about half the Q4 2007 credit missing ($10) and whatever credit they would give for the missing programming from 119. The installer didn't say an amount though he offered a guess of $5 or less.

In all $15/month is only $180 dollars for the year so I doubt I will hire any lawyer. Mostly this offends me on principle-- I don't like being lied to to obtain my business and then be told no dice and that I'll be charged even more if I cancel.

I guess I will send my certified demand letter to D* this week then. Is the correct corporate address for legal communications:

DIRECTV Enterprises, Inc.
2230 E. Imperial Hwy.
El Segundo, CA 90245


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## loudo (Mar 24, 2005)

DirecTV or for that matter, any satellite or cable service, is far from being perfect when it comes to Customer Service. But from my experience, DirecTV Customer Service is far superior to any cable company I have ever has to deal with. When calling DirecTV, I have never had to wait for 30 or 45 minutes to talk to someone, like when I have called the cable company.


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## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

Fios is available at my Florida home, and my in laws have it there. Picture looks very good to me. They have everything thru Verizon - TV, Cell, Home Phone, and internet. They are indeed paying less as a package, but as compared to Dish for instance;

42.99 very similar lineup as Dish but Does NOT include sports channels such as Outdoor, Tennis,Speed, Gol, and some others. That is $7.99 more.

SD DVR is $12.99 a month - so total is $56 a month, $65 if you get Outdoor etc.. If HD DVR add another $3 a month.

Also, their contract clearly states their package is a promo price for one year. They never asked what the cost was after the promo.


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## dtrell (Dec 28, 2007)

tampa8 said:


> Fios is available at my Florida home, and my in laws have it there. Picture looks very good to me. They have everything thru Verizon - TV, Cell, Home Phone, and internet. They are indeed paying less as a package, but as compared to Dish for instance;
> 
> 42.99 very similar lineup as Dish but Does NOT include sports channels such as Outdoor, Tennis,Speed, Gol, and some others. That is $7.99 more.
> 
> ...


on most cable packages, the price doubles...so i would tell them to expect it to be about 140 dollars when promo period is over.


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## tiger2005 (Sep 23, 2006)

spartanstew said:


> Apology accepted.
> 
> But I am right.
> 
> ...


I'm with jpl on this. Sure, the FiOS DVR might be crap, but there is the option to have a solution like TiVo with your FiOS TV service therefore if you want to talk about FiOS vs. DirecTV, then you have to include any available 3rd party solutions into the discussion because they're available to FiOS users. That's like me saying, "well you can't get OTA signals with DirecTV's HR21 HDDVR." Is that factual, yes, but its also obscuring the fact that DirecTV has another solution, the HR20, which does allow for OTA reception.

If you want to make a fair comparison between the two services, you have to include any available solutions, even if that includes 3rd party support. If DirecTV allowed for any 3rd party support, I don't see why that wouldn't also be included in any discussion/comparison between the two services.


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## tiger2005 (Sep 23, 2006)

dtrell said:


> on most cable packages, the price doubles...so i would tell them to expect it to be about 140 dollars when promo period is over.


Do you have anything to support that statement?


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## tiger2005 (Sep 23, 2006)

loudo said:


> DirecTV or for that matter, any satellite or cable service, is far from being perfect when it comes to Customer Service. But from my experience, DirecTV Customer Service is far superior to any cable company I have ever has to deal with. When calling DirecTV, I have never had to wait for 30 or 45 minutes to talk to someone, like when I have called the cable company.


I have FiOS internet, which is the same service someone would call for their TV service, and I can tell you that I've had to call for a service issue just once in the 3 years we've had it and they were VERY helpful. It was on a Sunday no less and our Internet service was down. After going through the regular CSR's they said, we'll have to have someone call you back. Well, of course I was very skeptical, but since I had to get some work done I didn't have time to argue. While I went over to my in-laws house to use their Internet service, a tech actually DID return the call to my house and spoke with the wife and tried fixing the problem. She didn't really know what she was doing so I had her ask if he could call back in an hour. Well, 1 hour and 5 min. later, he returned the call. In about 5 min. on the phone, he was able to diagnose the problem (the plug at the circuit tripped where the FiOS box is installed, therefore it lost all power and the internet service won't work on battery power). All of that occurred on a Sunday.

Because of service like this, I don't think you can assume Verizon's FiOS service will be commensurate with any cable company's service. First line CSR's seem to be the same from any company you call for support, but from my personal experience, Verizon has made a decent effort to differentiate their tech service from the 'norm' found in the cable industry.


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## Badger (Jan 31, 2006)

bfncbs1 said:


> Yea but launching is a slow process.......and your still limted in capacity and to win the HD war you need the infrastructure to be in place. What happens after D11? D12 in 1-2 years? They could be very well behind by then.
> 
> The more important question really is will the content and channels be there......Providers will create the capacity.


D* has D12 already built and I wouild imagine that they will have it scheduled for launch far enough ahead of when they actually need it for expansion. I doubt that D* will fall behind anyone for a long time!


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

tiger2005 said:


> I have FiOS internet, which is the same service someone would call for their TV service, and I can tell you that I've had to call for a service issue just once in the 3 years we've had it and they were VERY helpful. It was on a Sunday no less and our Internet service was down. After going through the regular CSR's they said, we'll have to have someone call you back. Well, of course I was very skeptical, but since I had to get some work done I didn't have time to argue. While I went over to my in-laws house to use their Internet service, a tech actually DID return the call to my house and spoke with the wife and tried fixing the problem. She didn't really know what she was doing so I had her ask if he could call back in an hour. Well, 1 hour and 5 min. later, he returned the call. In about 5 min. on the phone, he was able to diagnose the problem (the plug at the circuit tripped where the FiOS box is installed, therefore it lost all power and the internet service won't work on battery power). All of that occurred on a Sunday.
> 
> Because of service like this, I don't think you can assume Verizon's FiOS service will be commensurate with any cable company's service. First line CSR's seem to be the same from any company you call for support, but from my personal experience, Verizon has made a decent effort to differentiate their tech service from the 'norm' found in the cable industry.


I know this is severely off topic, but we had a similar experience. I said that I had one internet outage in 2 years. Well, that's not technically true - we had 2. The first was a real outage and only lasted a short time. The second time was due to the same problem that you listed (aka user error). My daughter tried to get on line and couldn't. I called their support line and reported the problem. Then I ran out to run some errands. I came back a little while later, and my wife told me that the 'verizon box in the laundry room (the battery backup) was beeping.' I said 'ok, I'll go take a look.' She said, 'you don't have to - I was going to wait until you got home, and then something occurred to me - it was getting cold in here - so I went and checked the circuit breaker, and sure enough it was tripped.' The furnace (forced hot air) and verizon equipment are on the same circuit.

The beeping was the battery back-up getting set to be totally drained. On the good side, it's clear that the BBU lasted longer than the advertized 7 hours. I would guestimate that it ran a good 10 hours before finally being drained.


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## pratttech (Jan 13, 2008)

I've got Verizon for my home phone service and they are a utility company in the traditional sense. Very dependable and no issues ever in the 8 years at my current address other than calling them to make changes to my plan. I've always gotten excellent service and when they said they would get back to me they actually did. Unfortunately no FIOS available here or I'd be their customer already.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

tiger2005 said:


> I'm with jpl on this. Sure, the FiOS DVR might be crap, but there is the option to have a solution like TiVo with your FiOS TV service therefore if you want to talk about FiOS vs. DirecTV, then you have to include any available 3rd party solutions into the discussion because they're available to FiOS users. That's like me saying, "well you can't get OTA signals with DirecTV's HR21 HDDVR." Is that factual, yes, but its also obscuring the fact that DirecTV has another solution, the HR20, which does allow for OTA reception.
> 
> If you want to make a fair comparison between the two services, you have to include any available solutions, even if that includes 3rd party support. If DirecTV allowed for any 3rd party support, I don't see why that wouldn't also be included in any discussion/comparison between the two services.


I give up. I never knew logic was this tough.

Your analogy regarding the HR20 and HR21 is wrong, because they're both D* products. If you're talking about D*, they're relevent.

Are there other options with FIOS? Sure. I never said there wasn't. I simply stated that the FIOS DVR was crap. It is. End of story.

When comparing 2 products from 2 service providers, I stick to the things they provide. That's the comparison.

Now, if someone wants to throw Tivo into the mix and add the costs associated with that, then that's fine. When doing my research, I certainly considered that, as should anyone else. That wasn't the point of my post.

but please tell me o, wise one that sides with jpl, which part of my original post here:



spartanstew said:


> For two, their DVR is a piece of crap. A good DVR is very important to me. So is the ability to upgrade the HD. Can't do that with FIOS either. They also don't have discreet IR codes, so you can't have more than one DVR in the same room (unless you keep manually blocking the IR of one of them to use the remote).


is wrong? That's what he claimed. That my statement was only partially true. OK, which part isn't true. Notice I say THEIR DVR. THEIR DVR isn't upgradeable. THEIR DVR doesn't have discreet IR codes. THEIR DVR is a piece of crap.

That was the point. It wasn't an end all be all diatribe on the pros and cons of FIOS in relation to any and all 3rd party pieces of equipment available.

If you're so interested in comparing it with all third party vendors, why don't you talk about Moxi and how using FIOS with Moxi would compare to D*? Or a VCR? Heck, hooking up a VCR from Sony would be much cheaper than any of the other options. Should I include that in all comparisons too? Ridiculous.


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## bfncbs1 (Feb 8, 2007)

Badger said:


> D* has D12 already built and I wouild imagine that they will have it scheduled for launch far enough ahead of when they actually need it for expansion. I doubt that D* will fall behind anyone for a long time!


Like I have said many times it's a win-win for all customers.......pressure from D*, E* and FiOS means we win.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

spartanstew said:


> I give up. I never knew logic was this tough.
> 
> Your analogy regarding the HR20 and HR21 is wrong, because they're both D* products. If you're talking about D*, they're relevent.
> 
> ...


First off, there's no reason to get all worked up with this. Here's the line I took issue with:

"Can't do that with FIOS either."

Meaning that with fios you can't get an expandable DVR. If, instead, you said something like this:

"Can't do that with the FIOS dvr either."

I would have agreed with you. The line you wrote is not talking about the fios dvr specifically - it's talking about fios in general - meaning the service. Your statement is pretty clear to me - it says that you can't get an expandable DVR that works with FiOS service, and that is simply not correct.

As for not mentioning Moxi... what does that have to do with it. First, if I had any familiarity with Moxi (which I don't) I may have used it in my example. But it was unnecessary. All I had to do was demonstrate that there was a single DVR out there that ran counter to your statement. I didn't need to talk about all the DVRs out there that are usable with fios. I just had to find one that I knew was expandable that you could run with fios.

It's one thing to attack my sense of logic - but logic requires precision in what you say. What you said may not have been what you meant - but to me the meaning was still clear.

Now that we've beaten this one to death, maybe we can drop it and move on.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

jpl said:


> Here's the line I took issue with:
> 
> "Can't do that with FIOS either."


And I stand by that statement. You can't do that with FIOS. You can do it with TiVo, but you can't do that with FIOS. My whole sentence/paragraph was about FIOS and their equipment. You really expect someone to insert the word FIOS into every single sentence? When that's what the whole discussion is about? When that's what was stated several times in the paragraph already? Again, ridiculous.

After you stated what I wrote wasn't true and I came back and AGAIN said that I was talking about the FIOS DVR only, you continued to state that what I wrote wasn't true instead of just saying "I misunderstood what you wrote". When you're wrong, just admit you were wrong. Simple.


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## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

Spartan -- But you can do that with Fios, because you can use Tivo (or other third party hardware) with Fios.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

spartanstew said:


> And I stand by that statement. You can't do that with FIOS. You can do it with TiVo, but you can't do that with FIOS. My whole sentence/paragraph was about FIOS and their equipment. You really expect someone to insert the word FIOS into every single sentence? When that's what the whole discussion is about? When that's what was stated several times in the paragraph already? Again, ridiculous.
> 
> After you stated what I wrote wasn't true and I came back and AGAIN said that I was talking about the FIOS DVR only, you continued to state that what I wrote wasn't true instead of just saying "I misunderstood what you wrote". When you're wrong, just admit you were wrong. Simple.


Upstream nailed it. My beef isn't your use of the word FiOS - you used that in that case. My beef is that you didn't reference the DVR in that statement. When I say something like 'You can't do that with DirecTV' the implication is clear - I'm talking about the service in general. The DVR is only part of that service. If I want to say something specific about the DVR, I would have to reference the DVR in that sentence. Yes, you reference the DVR in prior sentences, but reread what you wrote, and to me you go from saying that the DVR is crap, that it's not expandable, to saying that you can't get an expandable DVR with their service. That's exactly how it comes across. You can slam me all you want about my lack of logic and all, but clearly I'm not the only one who read it that way.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Upstream said:


> Spartan -- But you can do that with Fios, because you can use Tivo (or other third party hardware) with Fios.


Your whole sentence is an oxymoron. You can't do it with FIOS (alone), you can do it with TIVO (that just happens to work with FIOS).

I know you're just making posts to instigate and that's fine if it makes you happy.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

jpl said:


> Upstream nailed it. My beef isn't your use of the word FiOS - you used that in that case. My beef is that you didn't reference the DVR in that statement. When I say something like 'You can't do that with DirecTV' the implication is clear - I'm talking about the service in general. The DVR is only part of that service. If I want to say something specific about the DVR, I would have to reference the DVR in that sentence. Yes, you reference the DVR in prior sentences, but reread what you wrote, and to me you go from saying that the DVR is crap, that it's not expandable, to saying that you can't get an expandable DVR with their service. That's exactly how it comes across. You can slam me all you want about my lack of logic and all, but clearly I'm not the only one who read it that way.


Oh, I think you might be the only one that read it that way. Upstream just likes to poke sticks like that.

I referenced the DVR specifically in both of the 2 previous sentences. To say that I needed to specifically mention it again for the third consecutive sentence so that you'd know I was still talking about the same thing is again ridiculous. I never once said "you can't get an expandable DVR with their service" as you state. It doesn't even come across that way unless you're intentionally reading into it.


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## tiger2005 (Sep 23, 2006)

jpl said:


> Upstream nailed it. My beef isn't your use of the word FiOS - you used that in that case. My beef is that you didn't reference the DVR in that statement. When I say something like 'You can't do that with DirecTV' the implication is clear - I'm talking about the service in general. The DVR is only part of that service. If I want to say something specific about the DVR, I would have to reference the DVR in that sentence. Yes, you reference the DVR in prior sentences, but reread what you wrote, and to me you go from saying that the DVR is crap, that it's not expandable, to saying that you can't get an expandable DVR with their service. That's exactly how it comes across. You can slam me all you want about my lack of logic and all, but clearly I'm not the only one who read it that way.


+1

Spartan, as jpl said the entirety of your original post was comparing the FiOS service to DirecTV. Your first point was about how you had 'priced it out' and FiOS was more expensive for you, your second point was about how horrendous the FiOS DVR is (facts that really aren't in dispute), and your third point was about their HD service.



spartanstew said:


> We've had FIOS availability for a long time (I think my neighborhood was the 3rd in the country). They're always trying to "snag" me. We do have their phone and internet, but just couldn't do their TV. For one, when I priced it out it was more expensive than D*. For two, their DVR is a piece of crap. A good DVR is very important to me. So is the ability to upgrade the HD. Can't do that with FIOS either. They also don't have discreet IR codes, so you can't have more than one DVR in the same room (unless you keep manually blocking the IR of one of them to use the remote). We have to have duel DVR's.
> My next door neighbor has FIOS and I can't see any difference in the PQ between FIOS and D* (in HD or SD). Now, maybe if they were side by side, I'd see a difference, but don't know for sure.
> Add into the equation that D* has so much more HD and they listen to their customers and are constantly improving their product and staying with D* is a no-brainer.


Its fairly obvious that you weren't comparing the DirecTV line of DVR's to the FiOS DVR only, rather you were comparing the FiOS TV service as a whole to DirecTV's service. When doing that its illogical not to include all available options to that service, which would include TiVo, Moxi, etc.


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## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

My brother was going to buy a Dell laptop. He thought it provided him the best combination of price and features. But he decided against it because he didn't like Dell printers. I told him he could use any printer with the Dell laptop; if he wanted to, he could buy an HP printer and use it with his Dell laptop. He told me that was an oxymoron and I liked to poke sticks.


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## jjohns (Sep 15, 2007)

Upstream said:


> My brother was going to buy a Dell laptop. He thought it provided him the best combination of price and features. But he decided against it because he didn't like Dell printers. I told him he could use any printer with the Dell laptop; if he wanted to, he could buy an HP printer and use it with his Dell laptop. He told me that was an oxymoron and I liked to poke sticks.


That's funny.


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## raven56706 (Jan 17, 2007)

i am sticking with directv because of Sunday Ticket.....


i want fios internet and phone though


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

tiger2005 said:


> +1
> 
> Spartan, as jpl said the entirety of your original post was comparing the FiOS service to DirecTV. Your first point was about how you had 'priced it out' and FiOS was more expensive for you, your second point was about how horrendous the FiOS DVR is (facts that really aren't in dispute), and your third point was about their HD service.
> 
> Its fairly obvious that you weren't comparing the DirecTV line of DVR's to the FiOS DVR only, rather you were comparing the FiOS TV service as a whole to DirecTV's service. When doing that its illogical not to include all available options to that service, which would include TiVo, Moxi, etc.


Thank you! That's exactly how I read the post. Not sure why it's so hard to see that. Taken in its entirety the post compares one service against the other. Not just one DVR against another. Now, can we please move on? I do also dispute that the moto DVR that fios uses is a piece of crap. I don't believe it is. It's much faster than what I had with DirecTV (made faster still with their latest s/w update), and has some very nice features that aren't available on the HR20 (e.g. color coding on the guide - ok, not a biggie to many folks, but I always liked that aspect of the original DirecTV receiver I got).

Do I think it's as nice as Tivo? No I don't. But it's a very capable box. If it weren't for the fact that I would lose VOD, I would go for a Tivo HD myself.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Might I suggest we leave the discussion about what people meant to say vs. what they did say to PM and bring this thread back to its topic.  
:backtotop:

A FIOS environment is different from a DIRECTV environment in that FIOS (for now) let users pick their own third party equipment. But that won't be a FIOS only solution.

I won't have FIOS at this house for a long time. I'm far more likely to move before it becomes available here. 

And who will have NFL ST that far down the road? If DIRECTV still has it, exclusive or not, I'm likely to stay.

Cheers,
Tom


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## cforrest (Jan 20, 2007)

Tom,

You are not even in a Verizon landline area, you'll never see FIOS!


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## tiger2005 (Sep 23, 2006)

jpl said:


> Do I think it's as nice as Tivo? No I don't. But it's a very capable box. If it weren't for the fact that I would lose VOD, I would go for a Tivo HD myself.


Sorry, Tom!

jpl, could you elaborate on what FiOS offers in the way of VoD? This would be one of my gripes with getting a TiVo unit with FiOS as well.


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## Pete Dougherty (Nov 29, 2007)

Anyone know if DBS Forums is down again? Seems to be a common problem. I guess I should stick with this forum.


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## Pete Dougherty (Nov 29, 2007)

Sorry. Wrong thread.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

tiger2005 said:


> Sorry, Tom!
> 
> jpl, could you elaborate on what FiOS offers in the way of VoD? This would be one of my gripes with getting a TiVo unit with FiOS as well.


Sorry for the really belated response here. I got off this thread some time ago, but JUST saw this posting out there. FiOS isn't as comprehensive in their VOD as say Comcast is, but they are growing. They have some network shows (CBS, and NBC), and some cable shows (USA), as well as a bunch of kids channels, and some select cable channel offerings. If you get one of the premium channels, you get the VOD offerings along with that subscription, which, depending on which channel you sign up for, can include a decent number of offerings (Starz has by far the biggest number of offerings out of any of the premiums.

Comcast offers things like free movies, and Verizon doesn't (well, not nearly as many - they do offer free movies of specific genres - see my notes on FEARNet, et. al., below) - that's probably the biggest difference in the two services. Also, Verizon is JUST starting to roll out HD VOD. We had a small handful of titles for a short time, but they have since disappeared. Other markets have a decent number. We're supposed to all have HD VOD again real soon, and if Verizon's press reports are to be believed, they'll have 1000 HD VOD titles by end of year.

They also started adding some VOD-only feeds. Things like FEARNet, and Illusions (sci-fi/fantasy). They have one channel (don't remember the name) dedicated to nothing but foreign independent films, and they added Smithsonian in the VOD feeds (the live channel is coming later this year). Areas that have HD VOD are starting to also see offerings for things like History HD, and Discovery HD. I'm really looking forward to the HD VOD - I use VOD alot now as is, but can see me really increasing my use of it in the future. May even make the DVR somewhat obsolete. For example, Starz offers an early premier for many new movies. The movie shows up on VOD about 2 weeks before airing - they just added "Next", which will air sometime in April, e.g. Too bad we don't currently have Starz VOD in HD, but still this is a real nice feature. Especially given our viewing schedule - we just put the kids to bed, it's now 9:15 and we're in the mood for a movie. I could go through the guide and find out what's starting at say 9:30 to see if anything hits us, or I can hit VOD and find something on there to watch.


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## sdicomp (Sep 12, 2006)

jhillestad said:


> Bye - no one cares....


Be nice, jhillestad!!


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