# Developers are betting on Android in the long run



## BubblePuppy (Nov 3, 2006)

From Android Central:


> A survey released this week suggests that mobile developers are picking Android to succeed over other Operating Systems, most notably iOS, in the long-run. The survey was conducted by Appcelerator and IDC asked more than 2,300 developers about the short and long term outlooks for various platforms.
> 
> Apple's iOS won for offering the best short-term revenue opportunities, with 76 percent of developers supporting that platform. In the long-run, however, 59 percent stated that they thought Android had the best long-term outlook, compared to 35 percent who said iOS.
> 
> This support from developers is not solely focused on the phone platform, but future mobile devices as well. When asked the question "which OS is positioned to power a large number of connected devices in the future," a glaring 72 percent voted for Android compared to 25 percent for iOS.......


http://www.androidcentral.com/developers-are-betting-android-long-run#comments


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

No surprise. It's the same reason Windows destroys MacOS in sales: ultimately, developers don't want to have to beg for Apple's permission to make and sell software for their OS. The iPhone is a great device, but Android phones are rapidly becoming as good or better, for less money, and most people are going to go to the open system with wide support vs. a closed, more expensive one that Jobs controls with an iron fist.

This didn't happen with the iPod because there wasn't any 3rd party software for it, and really, none needed.

The iPhone and iPad, though, are very dependent on additional software to be useful, as are their competition, and the competition will eventually win that war. Apple's greatest strength is also its greatest weakness...


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## HDJulie (Aug 10, 2008)

Agreed. I'm pretty sure that I'll end up on an Android phone in the next two years. I love my iPhone but now that other phones have the touchscreen I'm starting to get tired of Apple not allowing me to customize my phone without jailbreaking. And I don't like being tied to iTunes.


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## STEVEN-H (Jan 19, 2007)

I have an HTC EVO Android and love it. Never had an iPone or wanted one.


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## BubblePuppy (Nov 3, 2006)

From Android Central:


> These last few months have seen nearly exponential growth for Android as a platform, and we have seen the numbers to prove it. Now, new data has come out from InvestorPlace that shows Android is increasingly gaining mindshare along with marketshare. The numbers, shown above, show a 7 percentage point jump for Android purchase intent in September compared to back in June. This is a huge increase over September of 2009, when the number stood at just 6 percent.


http://www.androidcentral.com/android-reaches-new-high-purchase-intentions#comments

Link to the original article at Change wave Consumer: http://www.investorplace.com/invest...ap-for-google-android-os-among-consumers.html


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## Chris Blount (Jun 22, 2001)

About the only consolation to Apple users is that no matter what happens, iOS will still be around just like OSX still exists even though Windows domininates. There will always be Apple drones.


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## BubblePuppy (Nov 3, 2006)

Chris Blount said:


> About the only consolation to Apple users is that no matter what happens, iOS will still be around just like OSX still exists even though Windows domininates. There will always be Apple drones.


But living in a bubble. 

To give Apple/Jobs credit..all the high sales of the iphone was accomplished with (essentially) *one product on one carrier*. No one can take that away from Apple. A lot of Android/Blackberry users seem to forget that.


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## smiddy (Apr 5, 2006)

I loves me my h*TC* EVO 4G man, gotta love it!


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## jimmerz (Jan 26, 2010)

I had a Droid Eris and now have the Samsung Fascinate. LOVE the Fascinate!


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

smiddy said:


> I loves me my h*TC* EVO 4G man, gotta love it!


Had Blackberrys of one model or another for a few years. Last week I ditched my Tour (3rd one in 11 months) and, after a long decision-making process between the Samsung EPIC or the HTC EVO, I opted for the latter and don't regret it. It totally blows away ANY BlackBerry out there.

I just have to get used to the sensitivity of the thing and a few other minor thingies that their own peculiarities.


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## Grentz (Jan 10, 2007)

Technology history shows time and time again that the more open, accessible, and in many cases cheaper options dominate over time. I definitely agree that Apple's biggest strength is its biggest weakness. Closed systems just have a tough time sticking it out for the long haul in the market even if they garner success for periods of time. 

Frankly the quality and selection of Apps is already fading off from what it was at one time IMO. There are some really amazing ones, but a lot of pure crap and forgotten projects on the App Store these days.


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## mutelight (Oct 6, 2008)

As Android grows, unfortunately so does it's fragmentation. While Android is a fantastic platform, if I make an app for the iPhone, I know it will work on the 100+ million iOS devices out there.


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## bobukcat (Dec 20, 2005)

mutelight said:


> As Android grows, unfortunately so does it's fragmentation. While Android is a fantastic platform, if I make an app for the iPhone, I know it will work on the 100+ million iOS devices out there.


Yes and no, because hardware is always improving along with s/w development you can't always ensure an application will run on older platforms unless s/w never reaches the potential the new hardware has to offer. As an example there are new applications that will not run on a 3G or first and second generation Touch models. You can expect this to continue as new hardware leaves the older models in the dust, but there are still people using those older platforms that may feel slighted that they can't use a newer application.


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## ibooksrule (Feb 16, 2003)

Android is going to have a real issue with the patents its stealing. Apple owns the rights to the multi touch. Another company is after them for stealing their technology and according to what i have heard since they are filing in east texas its going to be bad for android as east texas is the best place to file patent infringment as they always find in favor of the patent holder.

Google is not a long term anything other then search. What is this crap about begging apple. If you want to install on your own iphone its very easy to do. While apple does have rules on the app store i see that is good. If it was my App store i would want to have rules on what can and can not be in it. 
Apple has sold past RIm even in the last quarter with the iphone 4 and it wont be long once the iphone is on more then AT&T we will see iphone blow way past anything else.

the iPad is already available through sprint, verizon and AT&T. You just get a mifi device through anyone but AT&T but it still works non the less. 

Also as far as apps running on the 3G iphone. Well most every app is for 3G S and iphone 4. Why would you want to not update your app you wrote as the iOS is further developed would you not want to update your app as well? But updating an app to work with a newer OS vs a fragmented junk of many phones and different OSs its much easier to update then write for a hundred phones.

the EVO 4G and the Droid 2, have been loaded up with crapware installed by the carriers (Sprint and Verizon, respectively). Apple would never let this fly on the iPhone, but the openness of Android means Google has basically no say in the matter. Consumers will get the crapware and they’ll like it. Not only that, plenty of this junk can’t even be uninstalled. How’s that for “open”?

And this is just the tip of the iceberg.

Earlier this year, Verizon rolled out its own V Cast app store on some BlackBerry devices. This occurred despite the fact that BlackBerry devices have their own app store (App World). From what we’re hearing, Verizon is also planning to launch this store on their Android phones as well in the future. Obviously, this store would be pre-installed, and it would likely be more prominently displayed than Android’s own Market for apps.

I would prefer my iphone over any droid. At least i know 1 its elegent and most of all i have 1 place to get all my apps and it lets me know when they are updated. I also never worry about malware or lock down of my phone or total bricking as the EVO i think it was did with a software update not long ago.

Plus id much rather be apple as a company. Because they make the OS, the CHip and can buy flash memory much cheaper then anyone else they make more on 1 phone then NOkia, Sony and LG do combined. I bet HTC and many others would love to make the money Apple does.


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## RasputinAXP (Jan 23, 2008)

I'm glad to see you love Apple. It's sad to see you don't actually know much about actual technology.

1. After attorney review, Apple now owns a patent to a very narrow concept of multitouch. There's near zero infringement by anybody.

2. The Google lawsuit you're referencing had to do with Google's Java implementation that has mysteriously become unlicensed because Oracle, who owns Java by way of purchasing Sun, doesn't want them to be anymore. Search for "google java lawsuit" and you'll see it dissected about 500 ways from Sunday.

3. All of the junk can be uninstalled. You just have to root your phone. You call it jailbreaking. In the Android world, though, it doesn't void warranties.

4. No, it's not actually that easy to just run an app you've written yourself on an iPhone. You need to pony up for a developer account.

5. Verizon sells through their own store within the Android Market. 

6. Android phones outsold iPhones in the last 2 quarters.

If you have any other questions, go ahead and hit Google to learn more, or go ahead and ask here. I'm more than willing to educate you on it.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

RasputinAXP said:


> If you have any other questions, go ahead and hit Google to learn more, or go ahead and ask here. I'm more than willing to educate you on it.


Stop posting all those facts - the Apple Kool-Aid folks will be after you in no time... :lol::lol::lol:


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## bobukcat (Dec 20, 2005)

ibooksrule said:


> Also as far as apps running on the 3G iphone. Well most every app is for 3G S and iphone 4. Why would you want to not update your app you wrote as the iOS is further developed would you not want to update your app as well? But updating an app to work with a newer OS vs a fragmented junk of many phones and different OSs its much easier to update then write for a hundred phones.


It is hard to tell but I think you jut disagreed and then agreed with me in the same paragraph. Of course you would want to update your application to take advantage of the latest hardware and software - and in some cases that is going to leave some older devices and OS versions out in the cold, no matter what mobile platform you are talking about. The developers of "Tweetdeck" recently stated how easy it was to develop their application for all Android builds from 1.5 all the way to 2.2, and others have stated the same thing. "Fragmentation" of the platform is (for the most part) a red herring being used by Android's competition.

I'm glad you like your iPhone and Apple, I really am, but I have to wonder if you've ever actually tried an Android phone - more specifically a high-end one, and gave it a fair comparison. I have used many people's iPhones (including my wife's iPhone 3GS and 4 plus my Touch) and they are very nice (I would probably own one if Android wasn't available). Like almost any other comparison though there are things that each product does better than the other. Personally I prefer Android, primarily for the notification system that I think blows away any other platform I've ever used (which is all except WebOS) and true multitasking capability. I also like the linux-based structure because that's more familiar to me when "hacking" around in the phone. Even the hardest-core Apple Fanboys I personally know at least appreciate some of the things that Android does differently / better than Apple (although some of them admit it much less readily than others  ).

It's OT but I would never buy a tablet that didn't support Flash (all knocks against Flash not withstanding) because I would expect a PC-like Web experience on it and Flash is a big part of that. I don't believe Flash support on a mobile phone is as important as on the tablet - mainly because of screen real-estate.


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## ibooksrule (Feb 16, 2003)

Flash is dead 54% of the web video is now in html5 and that is climbing fast. I have an iPad and frankly don't miss flash. Plus flash is a processor hog and was never designed for touch. Ii have seen it used and over and over and it most of the time does not work right. 
Sure I tried android. For me I prefer my iPhone. I have 2 iPhones and an iPad and I am quite happy with the apps I have. 

There are several apps I have that I can't get on android. Android phones are to easy to get malware on. The only thing android has done is a bigger screen but otherwise that's all I see that is better I don't care about hacking the phone.


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## RasputinAXP (Jan 23, 2008)

ibooksrule said:


> There are several apps I have that I can't get on android. Android phones are to easy to get malware on. The only thing android has done is a bigger screen but otherwise that's all I see that is better I don't care about hacking the phone.


[citation needed]. I haven't gotten any malware. None of the 40+ people I know have gotten malware...and isn't Apple the one on the hotseat for a bug that lets you break into locked iPhones?


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## ibooksrule (Feb 16, 2003)

BattleZone said:


> No surprise. It's the same reason Windows destroys MacOS in sales: ultimately, developers don't want to have to beg for Apple's permission to make and sell software for their OS. The iPhone is a great device, but Android phones are rapidly becoming as good or better, for less money, and most people are going to go to the open system with wide support vs. a closed, more expensive one that Jobs controls with an iron fist.
> 
> This didn't happen with the iPod because there wasn't any 3rd party software for it, and really, none needed.
> 
> The iPhone and iPad, though, are very dependent on additional software to be useful, as are their competition, and the competition will eventually win that war. Apple's greatest strength is also its greatest weakness...


Actually windows only beat the Mac because of a few things in history that changed the corse of events. WIndows is far more locked down then Apple ever has been. Its just that windows is sold on every junk computer company out there. FOr years the only place to buy Apple computers was an authorized Apple dealer then eventually compUSA for a while. Many people bought windows because they walk into a store such as walmart and buy the cheapest thing on the rack. I have seen it. People walk in and they dont look at specs even they just walk in and buy some off brand $300 computer. Does not matter then 6 months later they were buying another one because it crashed.
I use to install for Dell and its amazing how many people thought Macs were not compatible with windows. Or they did not know anything about them. Some of these people im sure would not get one because they paid as much for the install as they did for the computer. But many had high end computers and so forth but again did not know anything about a Mac. Old and young.

I believe with Apple being in Best buy and more Apple stores all over the world and then the ipad being at Wal mart and Target many people will see the ipad and then think thats cool and will look at a mac.

AT one time Apple was almost begging for software developers. While Microsoft had everyone they wanted. I think MS is on the decline and Apple on the rise. It is being accepted in business other then graphics and audio. With the new partnership they announced they will have a much better road into the enterprise market. Also iPads have made their way into many business according to Bloomberg.


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## ibooksrule (Feb 16, 2003)

We will see what happenes with android. Since oracle posted today 
Oracle amended its Java complaint against Google over Android patent infringement and provided line-by-line comparisons in its exhibits.

In its tweaked complaint, Oracle ups the ante against Google, who has called the lawsuit baseless. Oracle, which first sued Google over Android in August, said:

In at least several instances, Android computer program code also was directly copied from copyrighted Oracle America code. For example, as may be readily seen in Exhibit J, the source code in Android’s “PolicyNodeImpl.java” class is nearly identical to “PolicyNodeImpl.java” in Oracle America’s Java, not just in name, but in the source code on a line-for-line basis.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

I have both an iPhone and an Android (Samsung Captivate). Let’s face it, they both do the same things. At their most basic they are identical in functionality. The have all the same (or nearly so) apps. AAMOF, everything that I installed on my iPhone, I also have on my Captivate (with one exception). While there is a lot "more" apps for the iPhone, all the major/most popular apps are on both platforms. 

What it comes down to are the differences and what you want your phone to do. It seems the developers prefer the open source environment. Easy access is why there are more Windows PCs than Apples so you have to expect the same out of an open source system like Android.

Personally, I expect the increasing sales of Androids to continue. There’s so many models on multiple carriers. There’s only one iPhone on one carrier (for now ).

Mike


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

ibooksrule said:


> We will see what happenes with android. Since oracle posted today
> Oracle amended its Java complaint against Google over Android patent infringement and provided line-by-line comparisons in its exhibits.
> 
> In its tweaked complaint, Oracle ups the ante against Google, who has called the lawsuit baseless. Oracle, which first sued Google over Android in August, said:
> ...


Do you think this will shut down Android and remove all those phones from the market? There is absolutely way that's ever gonna happen. There's just too much money being made on these phones.

Anyone who thinks this could kill Android and the Android phone market is missing the big picture. It's all about the money and they're making it hand over fist right now. I wouldn't be surprised to see Oracle becoming some kind of partner with Google. Doubtful but not out of the realm of possibility. 

I'm betting either Oracle's suit won't hold up or, if it will, there will be a monetary settlement. Google's never going to let the cash cow die. :grin:

Mike


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

Gee, kinda sounds like the TiVo v. DISH battle.


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## BubblePuppy (Nov 3, 2006)

After having 3 Blackberrys that I unlocked, which allows me to run apps, have features, that the official ATT OS does not have, and now a rooted Google Nexus1 running a custom rom that has a ton of features that the stock Froyo doesn't have. I will never go to a phone that is in a locked tightly controlled bubble, like the iphone. The iphone will only have what Apple dictates what is allowed, along with what ever limitations the carrier imposes on the OS. 
I own my Nexus1, lock, stock, and os.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

ibooksrule said:


> Flash is dead 54% of the web video is now in html5 and that is climbing fast. I have an iPad and frankly don't miss flash. Plus flash is a processor hog and was never designed for touch. Ii have seen it used and over and over and it most of the time does not work right.


 I see flash all the time but I can't say I've seen any video in html5? I just looked it up and I have read that 54% of content is available in HTML5 but that doesn't mean it's exclusively HTML5. In the article that had the "54%", it also stated that Flash is still the dominate desktop player for web content so don't count out Flash yet. 

BTW, HTML5 was still under development and only has a draft spec and is not the current standard...Link



> Sure I tried android. For me I prefer my iPhone. I have 2 iPhones and an iPad and I am quite happy with the apps I have.
> 
> There are several apps I have that I can't get on android. Android phones are to easy to get malware on. The only thing android has done is a bigger screen but otherwise that's all I see that is better I don't care about hacking the phone.


Which Android phone do you have and what apps can't you get for it.

So far I've only found one app on my iPhone that I can't get on my Android and I found an identical app from a different developer so it's a wash. Just because you didn't find the identical app doesn't mean there isn't one for the same function from another developer. Show me an iPhone app and I'll show you the same functionality on Android. The lack of apps is a myth.

Further, there's no more malware on Android than there is on iPhone...I'm just sayin' :grin:

Mike


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## ibooksrule (Feb 16, 2003)

"MicroBeta" said:


> I see flash all the time but I can't say I've seen any video in html5? I just looked it up and I have read that 54% of content is available in HTML5 but that doesn't mean it's exclusively HTML5. In the article that had the "54%", it also stated that Flash is still the dominate desktop player for web content so don't count out Flash yet.
> 
> BTW, HTML5 was still under development and only has a draft spec and is not the current standard...Link
> 
> ...


Why would i want an android phone? Google has admitted android was never going to be a touch based os. It was not till the iPhone came out and it's popularity that it decided to change it to a touch interface. Plus I can't stand that they copied the code from someone else. Google has no original thought they just like Microsoft o let's see this looks good let's do this too. 
It's a cheap knock off of an iPhone and my iPhone works perfect. Plus it fits nicely into the Eco system. When I plug it in iTunes automatically launches and my music is there as well as my movies. Plus any app I get works on my iPad iPhone and iPod.

With 3 companies all filing suit against google am very curious how long it will be before they give up the ghost. 
Anyway we will see. I prefer my iPhone it just works like I need it to and android is not ever going to integrate the way my iPhone does and considering all my music and shows are in iTunes just to switch to android would require allot of work.

Although next time I'm at verizon I'll play with the android phones again just see if I can figure out what it is you like so well have not seen it so far.


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## ibooksrule (Feb 16, 2003)

Flash is dead it won't survive. That's why adobe is making a flash to html5 converter tool. They see for them to survive they need to do something because flash won't survive even Microsoft is giving up on silverlight and moving towards html5. 

Tons of video is html5 any video I can see on my iPad is not flash and I watch videos all the time


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

ibooksrule said:


> Why would i want an android phone? Google has admitted android was never going to be a touch based os. It was not till the iPhone came out and it's popularity that it decided to change it to a touch interface. Plus I can't stand that they copied the code from someone else. Google has no original thought they just like Microsoft o let's see this looks good let's do this too.
> It's a cheap knock off of an iPhone and my iPhone works perfect. Plus it fits nicely into the Eco system. When I plug it in iTunes automatically launches and my music is there as well as my movies. Plus any app I get works on my iPad iPhone and iPod.
> 
> With 3 companies all filing suit against google am very curious how long it will be before they give up the ghost.
> ...


There you go, again. :lol: See: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2623575#post2623575


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## bobukcat (Dec 20, 2005)

ibooksrule said:


> Why would i want an android phone? Google has admitted android was never going to be a touch based os. It was not till the iPhone came out and it's popularity that it decided to change it to a touch interface. Plus I can't stand that they copied the code from someone else. Google has no original thought they just like Microsoft o let's see this looks good let's do this too.
> It's a cheap knock off of an iPhone and my iPhone works perfect. Plus it fits nicely into the Eco system. When I plug it in iTunes automatically launches and my music is there as well as my movies. Plus any app I get works on my iPad iPhone and iPod.
> 
> With 3 companies all filing suit against google am very curious how long it will be before they give up the ghost.
> ...


Android wasn't even owned by Google until well after the iPhone was out and very successful. At this point they are making so much money off of Android that there is no way its going away, even if it becomes a licensed OS because of royalties that must be payed. But everyone is suing everyone in the game right now, including your beloved Apple for patent infringement - it has become part of the game.

As for Android integration, with more and more devices coming out running Android (TVs, Ebook readers, etc.) I think you'll see more and more integration with the Mobile Android experience, they have a long way to go to match what Apple has achieved but it is still a very young OS - the first really high-end Android phones we released just about one year ago today and look how much it has already grown!


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## ibooksrule (Feb 16, 2003)

They are not making money off of it. Only when people search using google. The os is free they can't make money on it.


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## bobukcat (Dec 20, 2005)

"ibooksrule" said:


> They are not making money off of it. Only when people search using google. The os is free they can't make money on it.


It is how they make all their money - advertising - and they do it very, very well. It's not just search though, all those free Android apps that have embedded ads using Google's tools make them a lot of money too. They didn't just claim that buying Android was probably the best move the company has ever made for no reason and if there is no Android running on millions of mobile devices that revenue goes away, which is why I say its not gonna happen.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

ibooksrule said:


> Why would i want an android phone? Google has admitted android was never going to be a touch based os. It was not till the iPhone came out and it's popularity that it decided to change it to a touch interface. Plus I can't stand that they copied the code from someone else. Google has no original thought they just like Microsoft o let's see this looks good let's do this too.
> It's a cheap knock off of an iPhone and my iPhone works perfect. Plus it fits nicely into the Eco system. When I plug it in iTunes automatically launches and my music is there as well as my movies. Plus any app I get works on my iPad iPhone and iPod.
> 
> With 3 companies all filing suit against google am very curious how long it will be before they give up the ghost.
> ...


 You said there were several apps that you had on your iPhone but couldn't get on the Android. All I was wondering was what apps could you not find for the Android. That's all. 

As for not getting over the "stealing code" thing then you better get rid of your iPhone because Apple has been accused of doing the same thing. Apples hand aren't exactly clean in this area (can you say Alto...I knew you could ). For that matter I can't think of a single big name hardware/software company that hasn't been accused of it. But right now it's just an accusation. I prefer to reserve judgment until it's been proven before condemning someone.

I know all about the iPhone. I have an Android and an iPhone. However, since you brought it up, I prefer my Android for a couple of reasons. It has larger screen (AMOLED). My Captivate is faster than the iPhone. It's much more customizable than my iPhone. I don't have to root (jailbreak) to install out of Market (iTunes Store) apps. You simply can't do that on the iPhone without jailbreaking first. Using Swype for texting beat my iPhone's texting capabilities hands down. I almost think Swipe alone is worth switching from the iPhone. 

They are nearly identical in functionality; including, for the most part, apps. IMHO, it's the extras that make the difference and they are where Android wins. Seriously, how does your iPhone "integrate" into your way of doing things that Android, and even some other touchscreen smartphones for that matter, can't do. I can't find a single thing, not one little thing, that my iPhone can do that I also can't do on my Android. However, I do know of several things my Captivate does that my iPhone simply can't handle. So I'm curious, what does the iPhone do that can't be done on an Android? Actually I can think of one advantage. The iPhone has much better battery life. :shrug:

BTW, I think you're talking about multi-touch which Google put on hold to avoid infringing on Apples patents. The SDKs for Android in 2007 already included touch screen capability. Touch screen capability was not added because the iPhone had it. For that matter the iPhone wasn't even the first completely touch screen phone. IIRC, that was a phone from LG. 

Mike


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## ibooksrule (Feb 16, 2003)

What can your captivate do an iPhone can't? I have not found a need for apps outside of iTunes other then 1 wifi hot spot. But if AT&T would allow that would not be a big deal you can do it with other carriers on the iPhone just not in re us.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

ibooksrule said:


> *What can your captivate do an iPhone can't?* I have not found a need for apps outside of iTunes other then 1 wifi hot spot. But if AT&T would allow that would not be a big deal you can do it with other carriers on the iPhone just not in re us.


Not drop every other call.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

ibooksrule said:


> What can your captivate do an iPhone can't? I have not found a need for apps outside of iTunes other then 1 wifi hot spot. But if AT&T would allow that would not be a big deal you can do it with other carriers on the iPhone just not in re us.


That's really the best you can do? !rolling

How is that something the Captivate can't do? You've just confirmed it's something the iPhone can't do. :lol:

I've only found one app I've installed outside the market too. So what? The fact is I can do it. 

Mike


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

sigma1914 said:


> Not drop every other call.


:thats: :lol:

FYI, that won't happen to you if you learn how to properly hold your iPhone4! There's a very exact spot on which your fingers must rest. Then, you'll need to turn the unit exactly 23.4 degrees off its vertical axis (note--you must compensate .7 degrees for sunspot activity when that is present).

See how simple that is!

But hey! None of that's necessary if you want to listen to your iTunes!


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

I've written an iPhone app .. Working on a duplicate android version. So far .. nod goes to Apple. The Android development environment is a bit more difficult to set up, IMHO - on the plus side, though, I guess you don't need a Mac.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> I've written an iPhone app .. Working on a duplicate android version. So far .. nod goes to Apple. The Android development environment is a bit more difficult to set up, IMHO - on the plus side, though, I guess you don't need a Mac.


I had heard that app developement wasn't as easy on Android. Linux vs iOS I guess?

Mike


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

It really depends on how you look at things.

IBM wanted to control the PC market with closed architecture. When the first PC "clones" came on the scene, IBM tried to sue in court to stop them... but ultimately lost.

That was a boon to the platform because it meant more options for consumers and cheaper prices... which is really why the PC took off in mainstream use.

BUT... that same phenomenon is why there is virtually no money in desktop PCs for the home user anymore, and IBM sold their PC division years ago to a company in China (Lenovo).

What is good for consumers can be bad for them too....

I'm not an Apple fanatic, but there products tend to hold their value later in part because Apple has such tight control over both the hardware and the software... and Apple's ability to sell in a down economy, grow their business AND grow their cash on-hand to over $50 billion dollars... they are doing something right.

They don't do all things the way I would like... but they are growing while PC-world has shrank just a tiny bit. Will that continue? I don't know.

There will also likely be lots of choices for phones too... and some will be pretty cool and highly competitive with the iPhones... but I don't take that to mean Apple is going away.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

ibooksrule said:


> What can your captivate do an iPhone can't? <snip>.


Since you won't tell me what the iPhone does that the Android doesn't, I'll answer your question. Here is a couple of things that the Captivate will do that the iPhone doesn't.


Real time OTA Sync of contacts, emails, calendar
Swype texting. I don't have to tap, I just slide my finger over the keyboard. It's much faster and more accurate.
Voice to text. If you don't like using the keyboard (tap or Swype) then just speak and it shall text.
Hot spot capability...although, I have no idea why anyone would make their phone a Wi-Fi hotspot for other devices.
Free built in turn-by-turn navigation.
Comes with 16GB but is expandable to 32GB.
DLNA support.

Mike


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## ibooksrule (Feb 16, 2003)

Real time OTA Sync of contacts, emails, calendar GOT THIS
Swype texting. I don't have to tap, I just slide my finger over the keyboard. It's much faster and more accurate. HAVE not seen this but for this one thing i would not give up my iphone. It works to well with my itunes and quicktime and offers great support.
Voice to text. If you don't like using the keyboard (tap or Swype) then just speak and it shall text. Yep have this. I dont use it as often as i thought i would because i tend to have really long emails then vs short to the point. But it is nice
Hot spot capability...although, I have no idea why anyone would make their phone a Wi-Fi hotspot for other devices.This would not have anything to do with iphone but with AT&T. AT&T has been promising wifi hotspot for quite some time now and still not delivered. That is why we are waiting to move to another carrier.
Free built in turn-by-turn navigation.Dont have this but then that is what a GPS is for. I have used GPS on my phone and really dont like it. I prefer a dedicated GPS prefer tomtom with the star wars voices.
Comes with 16GB but is expandable to 32GB.I can get an iphone in 16Gb or 32Gb 
DLNA support.Have this as well just look it up

The best thing about my iphone is if i ever have a problem all i have to do is go down to the Apple store and have someone look at it and in 5 minutes its either working or saw a couple where someone broke the glass and the Apple genius takes about 5 minutes to swap out the glass on it. This is what happens when you have 1 company who makes the hardware and software and in Apples case even the processor chip inside. 
You cant get that with anyone else. I have read all over the web about bricking android phones with update and many other issues. And you will have that anytime you have someone who makes the hardware someone else makes the chipset someone else makes the software and you just get to many people in the mix and then who do you go to for problems?
I use to work for Dell and i know the issues people would have they have a computer problem they call MS, MS says its a hardware problem call Dell, They call Dell and then Dell says no its a windows problem and it becomes this back and forth thing.

This reasoning was one of the problems with Directv back when they had about 50 different MAUNF and so they went to thier own branded hardware doing all the support and only haveing a couple companies make the hardware for them but its the same hardware. rather then having like 10 different models each from 50 different companies now just a few companies and all make the exact same machine.


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## Mikemok1981 (Jul 9, 2009)

I wasnt sure if I'd like SWYPE texting when I first got the phone, but oh man it is amazing. Its the only way to type on touch screen interfaces.


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

MicroBeta said:


> Since you won't tell me what the iPhone does that the Android doesn't, I'll answer your question. Here is a couple of things that the Captivate will do that the iPhone doesn't.
> 
> 
> Real time OTA Sync of contacts, emails, calendar
> ...


1. have it already on the iphone, both to standard pop3 accounts and exchange - if you want to connect to the exchange server on my companies network with an android based phone, expect to pay out of pocket for the touchdown application or you will not be allowed iot.
2. not a big deal or a show stopper on the iphone
3. voice to text, again not a showstopper or something that is missed
4. Hotspot - again as mentioned network based
5. mapquest, free downloadable app from the itunes store http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/mapquest-4-mobile/id316126557?mt=8
6. not a show stopper since this is a business phone and no unapproved apps or music is allowed
7. DLNA - again see 6.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

Real time OTA Sync of contacts, emails, calendar. GOT THIS I didn't know the iPhone did this natively. I tried to find real time Over The Air sync on my iPhone but couldn't. I'll have to look this one up again maybe I missed it. 
Swype texting. I don't have to tap, I just slide my finger over the keyboard. It's much faster and more accurate. HAVE not seen this but for this one thing i would not give up my iphone. It works to well with my itunes and quicktime and offers great support. For me this really is a game changer. So much of what I do with the phone involves texting and, IMHO, this is the fastest way to accomplish it. 
Voice to text. If you don't like using the keyboard (tap or Swype) then just speak and it shall text. Yep have this. I dont use it as often as i thought i would because i tend to have really long emails then vs short to the point. But it is nice You have this as an add on app and not natively supported. If you want to consider apps then there is *not one difference in capabilities* between the two systems. I thought when you asked what the Captivate does that the iPhone doesn't I thought you meant natively and not as an add on app. 
Hot spot capability...although, I have no idea why anyone would make their phone a Wi-Fi hotspot for other devices. This would not have anything to do with iphone but with AT&T. AT&T has been promising wifi hotspot for quite some time now and still not delivered. That is why we are waiting to move to another carrier. My Captivate *is* on AT&T so AT&T is not the hold up for this capability.
Free built in turn-by-turn navigation. Dont have this but then that is what a GPS is for. I have used GPS on my phone and really dont like it. I prefer a dedicated GPS prefer tomtom with the star wars voices. I agree. I don't see a reason to have it on a phone either but you asked what the Captivate does that the iPhone doesn't, so there ya go.
Comes with 16GB but is expandable to 32GB. I can get an iphone in 16Gb or 32Gb Of course you can get it in 16GB or 32GB. However, the Captivate has an SD card slot while the iPhone doesn't. That was the point.
DLNA support. Have this as well just look it up You want to show me because I can't find where iOS4 natively supports DLNA. I can only find it as an add on app. I could be wrong so I'll keep looking. :scratchin



ibooksrule said:


> The best thing about my iphone is if i ever have a problem all i have to do is go down to the Apple store and have someone look at it and in 5 minutes its either working or saw a couple where someone broke the glass and the Apple genius takes about 5 minutes to swap out the glass on it. This is what happens when you have 1 company who makes the hardware and software and in Apples case even the processor chip inside.


That's a valid point. How much was the glass swap? 


> _You cant get that with anyone else. I have read all over the web about bricking android phones with update and many other issues. And you will have that anytime you have someone who makes the hardware someone else makes the chipset someone else makes the software and you just get to many people in the mix and then who do you go to for problems? _


Really? All over the web? How about some links because I can't find much, and what I do find is due to the user and not the OS.

Of course Apple has never had update issue have they? 

How about you do a little reading on the web. You find that iPhone updates have indeed bricked phones (how about that iOS 4.01 thing) so don't act like Apple is perfect in this regard. 


> _I use to work for Dell and i know the issues people would have they have a computer problem they call MS, MS says its a hardware problem call Dell, They call Dell and then Dell says no its a windows problem and it becomes this back and forth thing. _


There's a lot of truth in this. There definitely is comfort to be had in one stop support. No argument here. However, I will get pretty much the same support from the AT&T store for my Captivate. :shrug:



> _This reasoning was one of the problems with Directv back when they had about 50 different MAUNF and so they went to thier own branded hardware doing all the support and only haveing a couple companies make the hardware for them but its the same hardware. rather then having like 10 different models each from 50 different companies now just a few companies and all make the exact same machine._


Just like AT&T, you call DirecTV and you get service. DirecTV won't send you to someone else. They won't tell you call the manufacturer. DirecTV won't say it's not their problem and will handle it themselves. How well is a debatable point but it's not at all the same as your PC analogy.

Mike


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

Mikemok1981 said:


> I wasnt sure if I'd like SWYPE texting when I first got the phone, but oh man it is amazing. Its the only way to type on touch screen interfaces.


I thought it was kinda goofy at first but it really is a game changer for me. So much of what I use the phone for (besides calls ) involves inputting text and Swype makes it so much easier.

Mike


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

wingrider01 said:


> 1. have it already on the iphone, both to standard pop3 accounts and exchange - if you want to connect to the exchange server on my companies network with an android based phone, expect to pay out of pocket for the touchdown application or you will not be allowed iot.
> 2. not a big deal or a show stopper on the iphone
> 3. voice to text, again not a showstopper or something that is missed
> 4. Hotspot - again as mentioned network based
> ...


These weren't meant to be show stoppers. Ibooksrule asked what the Captivate had that the iPhone didn't. I assumed he meant natively and not as an add on. Since your phone is a business phone I can see why you don't care about those things but that wasn't the question asked.

Actually, Android 2.2 has native Exchange support. It hasn't been officially released to the AT&T Samsung phones yet but it is now supported.

How do I get my iPhone to sync my calendar in real time OTA without an add on app? I'm obviously missing something because I can't find it.

Mike


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## bobukcat (Dec 20, 2005)

wingrider01 said:


> 5. mapquest, free downloadable app from the itunes store http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/mapquest-4-mobile/id316126557?mt=8


Have you had a good user experience with this application?? My wife had it on her iPhone 4 and is sucked so bad she ponied up the $30 (on sale) for the TomTom software.

One thing I really like about Android that has not been mentioned is the widgets you can put on your screens, iPhone has nothing like it. Another thing is the ability to completely change the Launcher application without rooting the device. LauncherPro is a great example, it lets me choose which four quick-start apps I always want on the bottom of the screen and with a quick swipe which 5 I want on the second level as well as home many home screen I want, option for quick preview / screen selection, etc.


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## ibooksrule (Feb 16, 2003)

I don't care about native that is what apps are for which will be microsofts problem with win 7 phones. 

Android may be ok or do a few things better such as changing home icons i the dock and a bigger screen would be nice but with the iphone 4 there are more pixels and its so clear but otherwise it's just another copy of someone elses hard work. 

I think once iPhone goes multi carrier we will see a big drop in android sales. Of course true sales are still hard to count. Since bogo sales of course will drive people. I mean the average customer comes in says I think I want an iPhone then see this look alike sort of And it's BOGO free they think ok this is a better deal.


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## klang (Oct 14, 2003)

MicroBeta said:


> How do I get my iPhone to sync my calendar in real time OTA without an add on app? I'm obviously missing something because I can't find it.
> 
> Mike


There may be other ways but I do it through MobileMe. The syncing is built into the phone but you have to buy a subscription to MobileMe.


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## Mikemok1981 (Jul 9, 2009)

ibooksrule said:


> I think once iPhone goes multi carrier we will see a big drop in android sales.


I think you're making a pretty big assumption. Most people who watch the market place believe that while diversifying of carriers will make it a more competitive market, it wont really boost Iphone sales too much or cause android phones to decline.

Sure you'll probably see the balance tip a little, but all in all most people who want an Iphone arent too deterred by the fact that only AT&T has them. I cant think of anyone I've talked to who's said "I'd have an Iphone, if only they weren't AT&T only." Most times I hear, I hate AT&T but I really want the Iphone.

I think where you'll really see numbers shift is in AT&T's subscriber base. Iphone users who hate the network but love the iphone will shift to their carrier of choice. But in that I'm making assumptions.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

ibooksrule said:


> I don't care about native that is what apps are for which will be microsofts problem with win 7 phones.


If you include apps there is no difference between them. They are just two touch screen smart phones. The best two platforms on the market but still identical in capabilities.



> _Android may be ok or do a few things better such as changing home icons i the dock and a bigger screen would be nice but with the iphone 4 there are more pixels and its so clear but otherwise it's just another copy of someone elses hard work. _


You keep implying that the Android is a complete rip off of the iPhone. Just because the iPhone hit the market first doesn't mean it was the blueprint for the Android. The Android OS started in 2005 and they were part of the Open Handset Alliance in 2007.

The iPhone wasn't even the first fully touch screen mobile phone to hit the market so does that mean the iPhone is a rip off of the LG KE850? Seriously, let this one go because you just plain wrong. 



> _I think once iPhone goes multi carrier we will see a big drop in android sales. Of course true sales are still hard to count. Since bogo sales of course will drive people. I mean the average customer comes in says I think I want an iPhone then see this look alike sort of And it's BOGO free they think ok this is a better deal._


 Well we'll see what happens when the iPhone goes public on Verizon. There are simply too many Android models on all the carriers so by sheer numbers it seems unlikely. 

Mike


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## bobukcat (Dec 20, 2005)

Mikemok1981 said:


> I think you're making a pretty big assumption. Most people who watch the market place believe that while diversifying of carriers will make it a more competitive market, it wont really boost Iphone sales too much or cause android phones to decline.
> 
> Sure you'll probably see the balance tip a little, but all in all most people who want an Iphone arent too deterred by the fact that only AT&T has them. I cant think of anyone I've talked to who's said "I'd have an Iphone, if only they weren't AT&T only." Most times I hear, I hate AT&T but I really want the Iphone.
> 
> I think where you'll really see numbers shift is in AT&T's subscriber base. Iphone users who hate the network but love the iphone will shift to their carrier of choice. But in that I'm making assumptions.


I tend to agree with you, plus Android offers some options the iPhone doesn't such as larger screens, physical keyboards, AMOLED screens, different form factors, etc. Add in that any heavy Google Docs / Gmail users are going to have a better experience (in general) on an Android device, the Geek-factor (any linux lover who wants to do some hacking) and beyond just functionality there is a very compelling argument. There is also price, you can get a high-end Android phone on Verizon for $150 or less with a 16GB card pre-installed so there are cheaper options than the iPhone.

There is no doubt in my mind you'll see plenty of iPhone users looking to move to VZW or others once they can get the same phone on that network.


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