# Browser Wars Revisited



## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

I've always been staunchly anti-IE. Partially because of the risks it posed, both actual and perceived. Also, it seemed to lag far behind others in usability as far tabs and customization ability. IE through 6 and 7 was inherently buggy and unstable in the eyes of many. Much of my objection was just anti-M$. I went on a huge anti-M$ binge when the horror known as Vista infested PCs, but they seem to have redeemed themselves with Win7 and M$IE AntiVirus. I still don't like their tricks with TrialWare like M$Office, but at least I can get around that and use OpenOffice or the successor apparent, LibreOffice.

To me, Netscape/Mozilla/SeaMonkey and Opera were far and away better on every point.

Others swore by FireFox, Chrome and a host of others.

Some preferred IE add-ons like Maxthon or MyIE2.

Yet, there are infinite websites that cater to IE specific code and don't display pages properly or run scripts effectively on anything other than IE. I consider those webmasters incompetent, but they are what they are and nobody will ever be able to convince them to code pages properly to accepted standards.

So, where are we with IE8 and 9?

Can toolbars and menus be customized? Can images be selectively blocked? Has IE caught up to the others in the ways that drove most people to the others? Are there user created add-ons, extensions, plug-ins and themes available as there are in Mozilla products? What about pop-up and cookie management?

In short, is it safe to go back to IE?


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

What is IE?


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## Richard (Apr 24, 2002)

<deleted> forgot I never respond to someone so immature to use $ when referring to Microsoft. Not feeding the Troll here.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

I've used IE since the day it was released. I still use it as my primary browser today.

However, I have Firefox and Safari on most of my systems. chrome I have on my netbook.

To me the Browser wars are dumb. They are all free. Some sites work better with one, over another. Like Safari with Apple's site.

I am still a bit to IE since Microsoft legally licensed Mosaic, from The University of Illinois. Where Netscape, didn't. That was a browser war. Today's "battle" is nothing more then bragging rights and who gets to drive the next generation of the markup language and add ons.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Richard said:


> <deleted> forgot I never respond to someone so immature to use $ when referring to Microsoft. Not feeding the Troll here.


Well, you did respond!

And what's wrong with a $ when referring to one of the more rapacious companies in history?


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

But nobody's answered the questions yet.


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## djlong (Jul 8, 2002)

Usually it means someone is a big fan of Apple who is just as rapacious, if not moresoe, but are only limited by their market share in certain areas. I mean, come on, you have to buy apps for their phone through THEIR store? 

And by no means am I singling Apple out.

Being a software developer, I see this kind of behavior all the time in more places than I can count.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

"Richard" said:


> <deleted> forgot I never respond to someone so immature to use $ when referring to Microsoft. Not feeding the Troll here.


There's a delete post button, too.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I've used IE since the day it was released. I still use it as my primary browser today.
> 
> However, I have Firefox and Safari on most of my systems. chrome I have on my netbook.
> 
> ...


Home Run post. :up:


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

SayWhat? said:


> But nobody's answered the questions yet.


I thought I did?

I personally use IE all day long... even with the concerns peole have for it.
IE 9 and it's tabs are just like any of the other browsers now.

The plug-in/startup manager works great on it... and it help me eliminate a spyware/virus that attched itself to my wife's WIN7 system, that none of the other programs got rid of.

In what 15+ years now... I have maybe been hit with a dozen cases of spyware and other things... which is just going to happen with the amount of time I spend on the computer... and probably half of them had nothing to do with IE. I have never had any of my data compromised.

Posted From: IE9 Win7


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Home Run post. :up:


You nixed one line


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Earl Bonovich said:


> You nixed one line


Just kept the highlight reel... 

Your whole post was great.


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## tenholde (Aug 17, 2007)

The answer is YES.

tenholde


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

SayWhat? said:


> I've always been staunchly anti-IE. Partially because of the risks it posed, both actual and perceived. Also, it seemed to lag far behind others in usability as far tabs and customization ability. IE through 6 and 7 was inherently buggy and unstable in the eyes of many. Much of my objection was just anti-M$. I went on a huge anti-M$ binge when the horror known as Vista infested PCs, but they seem to have redeemed themselves with Win7 and M$IE AntiVirus. I still don't like their tricks with TrialWare like M$Office, but at least I can get around that and use OpenOffice or the successor apparent, LibreOffice.
> 
> To me, Netscape/Mozilla/SeaMonkey and Opera were far and away better on every point.
> 
> ...


Choosing a browser is like choosing a television provider. One has to shop and compare and then select the one that will fulfill your needs. As to your question in my opinion the answer is yes, it's safe to use Internet Explorer.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

IMO - a web browser is a web browser today. Personally, I usually use Firefox (there are some addons that I use), but I don't delete IE (currently version 8 on my XP machine) just for Microsoft updates and if I run into a site that doesn't work under Firefox. I also have Opera loaded - a bit different feel, but generally just as functional. At work - it's IE and Firefox both at the sametime.


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

What about saving sessions or re-opening closed tabs?

Is email integrated or do you still need Outlook?


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## Mikej0530 (Dec 23, 2008)

I hated every version of IE. They where all slow. That was my biggest concern. I hate a browser that slows me down. Then 9.0 came out and I love it. Its fast and its ease of use is really nice.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

MysteryMan said:


> Choosing a browser is like choosing a television provider. One has to shop and compare and then select the one that will fulfill your needs. As to your question in my opinion the answer is yes, it's safe to use Internet Explorer.


Except... none of them cost you any money.

Even though you can have all TV Providers installed at the same time, it would be very costly. Not so with browsers... you can use which ever one you want, and more then one at once...

I do that often... Throw my streaming audio into Safari, so links that i click on don't turn off the radio.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

SayWhat? said:


> What about saving sessions or re-opening closed tabs?
> 
> Is email integrated or do you still need Outlook?


If you are using a non-web based email system... then yes, you still need Outlook if you are using IE.

But in many cases, the Web offering of many ISPs are very good.
Smartermail for example.

Re-Opening a closed tab?


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

It's probably been safe to go back to IE since IE7 .. IE8 improved beyond that and now IE9 is even better. As Earl said, the browser wars are stupid. Generally pick one that works for you and go for it. It's not like you're going to be missing out on much.

I pretty much use Firefox exclusively. I've dabbled with Chrome and there is actually one site I visit that works great in Chrome but sucks in both Firefox and IE. There used to be a number of sites that were coded specifically for IE6, but those have decreased dramatically.

Best motto .. if it ain't broke .. don't fix it.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> If you are using a non-web based email system... then yes, you still need Outlook if you are using IE.


Or Thunderbird and IE ..


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

As an on-topic aside... a lot of people missed what the "Browser" war was really about.

It was never about the browser.

It was about server-side software!

Netscape gave away their browser to entice people to use it... and they did so because they made their browser support unique Web features that they built into their Web-hosting software that they sold for big bucks.

The more people used their free browser, the more they could sell their server software and say "see, people have a browser to use these features that only our software offers... so you really should be running our Web-hosting software."

Meanwhile... Microsoft jumped into the game and saw the exact same thing!

They bought the company that made what became IE... and gave IE away... and made sure it supported features unique to Windows Web server hosting software... and played the same game as Netscape.

Each building features into a free browser while charging for the server-side and ultimately wanting to dominate the server market.

So... the "browser" war never really was a browser war at all... it was a server-side war... and most people followed the misdirection and didn't know what was going on.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Netscape didn't start giving away their browser until MS entered the fray with big bucks and promotions and a large installed base and ...... free. They even made a decent browser for Macintosh for a number of years.


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## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

If the same Add-ons were available across them all, I wouldn't care which one I use.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Chrome works for me. I use the IE Tab extension for the rare occasions I find an IE-only site. I use XP on my laptops (by choice), and Chrome on XP is a thing of beauty... lightning fast. I also love having my Chrome bookmarks auto-synced across my three browsing PC's, along with the built-in automatic form-filling capability. It's also replaced Acrobat as my PDF reader.


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Re-Opening a closed tab?


If you go open a blank tab in IE9, there is an option at the bottom now to Reopen a Closed Tab. Nice little feature if you managed to close a tab by accident.

- Merg


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

The Merg said:


> If you go open a blank tab in IE9, there is an option at the bottom now to Reopen a Closed Tab. Nice little feature if you managed to close a tab by accident.


Ditto for Chrome. Just right-click any existing tab to find the "re-open" option. You can also "duplicate" a tab, along with its history. That's a feature I find myself using often when composing a post reply, but needing to check back in the same thread to find references.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Laxguy said:


> Netscape didn't start giving away their browser until MS entered the fray with big bucks and promotions and a large installed base and ...... free. They even made a decent browser for Macintosh for a number of years.


You should probably go back and check on that...

Netscape was giving away their browser to get the market from the people who were using things like Spry's "Internet in a box" that was for sale... Netscape drove those early for-purchase browsers out of the market by giving away Netscape 1 and 2.0 and offering the promise of enhanced Web sites that were using Netscape Web servers.

Once Netscape had the market... they tried adopting the pay-for-play model asking for people to buy Netscape browser after 30 days...

Then Microsoft entered the fray and gave away IE... and Netscape cried foul! Which always amused me since Microsoft was just lather/rinse/repeating what Netscape had done in years past...

Ultimately both companies really reached a stalemate and all they really accomplished was effectively killing the market for anyone to charge for a browser again.


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## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

SayWhat? said:


> In short, is it safe to go back to IE?


I never considered IE unsafe, so I cannot answer that question.

I use Firefox 4.0 as my main browser, but I've got IE8 and Chrome installed on my desktop machine and Safari on my laptop.

Chrome seems to load faster than any of the others but its window is almost too minimalist for me. I probably haven't right-clicked enough in Chrome.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

billsharpe said:


> I never considered IE unsafe, so I cannot answer that question.


You obviously don't keep up on the CERT list of serious security flaws. Last weeks list was dominated by Microsoft products. It is hard to imagine how Microsoft Office can be such an infectious disease.

http://www.us-cert.gov/cas/bulletins/SB11-108.html

Only IE9 escaped the April security updates.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

billsharpe said:


> I never considered IE unsafe, so I cannot answer that question.


It certainly has a history of *potential* security risks for years now...but never once took a hit since IE was since introduced.

It seems IE9 is faring better.


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## seern (Jan 13, 2007)

I have not had a lick of trouble with IE9 since the general beta was released.


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## gphvid (Jun 19, 2007)

I have tried all flavors of IE and still find it slower and less secure than Firefox. Chrome still looks like a wannabe and Opera has ads. And Firefox has a neat add on for Ad blocking which works pretty well. I haven't seen one for iE yet although there is probably a version for that as well.

Firefox and Thunderbird. Better than IE and Outlook or Outlook Express, both of which my employer chooses for us to use.


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

_and Opera has ads._

Not since about O4 or so. They're on O11 now I think.


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

Just loaded IE9.

Looks like I will be going Firefox full-time. What were they thinking? I want my Menu bar at the top and so far I haven't figured out anyway to get it there.


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

The Merg said:


> If you go open a blank tab in IE9, there is an option at the bottom now to Reopen a Closed Tab. Nice little feature if you managed to close a tab by accident.
> 
> - Merg


Yeah, it's like a short-term history. I use it all the time in both Opera and SeaMonkey. I can't imagine a browser without it.

One other thing I depend on heavily is Saved Sessions. I can close either browser with 15 or 20 tabs open and the next time I open the browser, all of those tabs load automatically. Is that in IE9?


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## machavez00 (Nov 2, 2006)

No IE for Mac. I use Safari a bit more than FF. FF was acting flaky when I was playing games on FB.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

machavez00 said:


> No IE for Mac. I use Safari a bit more than FF. FF was acting flaky when I was playing games on FB.


I use Safari, Chrome, Firefox, Opera, Camino, in about that order. IE for Macs got benched by MS quite a while ago, I think around system 9, IIRC- ten years ago! (?)


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## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

Herdfan said:


> Just loaded IE9.
> 
> Looks like I will be going Firefox full-time. What were they thinking? I want my Menu bar at the top and so far I haven't figured out anyway to get it there.


Right click on the tab area on top and select "Menu bar".

The problem I have with IE is that it is catching up with features that already existed for quite a while with Firefox, Opera, and Chrome.


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## machavez00 (Nov 2, 2006)

Laxguy said:


> I use Safari, Chrome, Firefox, Opera, Camino, in about that order. IE for Macs got benched by MS quite a while ago, I think around system 9, IIRC- ten years ago! (?)


Close, eight years ago.
I have IE 5 on my old power mac running OSX. MS dropped development of IE for Mac when Apple released Safari in 2003 and all support in 2005. (and Media Player as well)


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## wilbur_the_goose (Aug 16, 2006)

Chrome beta is my primary browser. IE9 is my backup.

Both work wonderfully.


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## braven (Apr 9, 2007)

Richard said:


> <deleted> forgot I never respond to someone so immature to use $ when referring to Microsoft. Not feeding the Troll here.


Mr. Gates? Is that you?


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