# DBSTalk First Look: DirecTV R16 Standard Definition DVR



## Earl Bonovich

DirecTV has released it latest standard definition DVR, the R16 to the public.

And DBSTalk brings you the details.... first...

Here's our First Look at the R16










Thank you to dmurphy, carl6 and all the field testers for this great first look


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## dmurphy

Some more pictures of the R16 ...


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## Stuart Sweet

Great job guys! This was a real team effort!


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## jfosut

Ooh the R16 looks pretty tasty! Big improvement over the styling of the R15, IMHO. Any difference in the interface or is it pretty much the same as the R15.


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## sean10780

Good Pictures guys, It looks way better than the R15.


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## Earl Bonovich

jfosut said:


> Ooh the R16 looks pretty tasty! Big improvement over the styling of the R15, IMHO. Any difference in the interface or is it pretty much the same as the R15.


Exactly the same interface


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## dmurphy

sean10780 said:


> Good Pictures guys, It looks way better than the R15.


As good as it looks, the most impressive thing about the R16 has been the stability. It's very, very reliable. Just works, like you would expect a DVR to do.


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## Greg Alsobrook

very nice job guys!!


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## carl6

The R16 completes the SWM capabilities for SD. Combined with the D12, you now have SWM capability in both SD receiver and SD DVR.

Carl


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## mhayes70

Great job guys as usual!!!


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## MarkN

thank you!


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## say-what

nice work and slick looking unit


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## Proc

Are these shipping now? Or are there still R15s in the supply pipeline?


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## Michael D'Angelo

Nice job guys!!!

Just a little surprised it does not have a network connection.


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## fredandbetty

Proc said:


> Are these shipping now? Or are there still R15s in the supply pipeline?


OOOh and i am getting a replacement for my last remaining HDVR2 in 3 days and i would LOVE one of those ( even though its NEVER going to happen) guess i will be happy as punch with an R-15!!


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## Earl Bonovich

Proc said:


> Are these shipping now? Or are there still R15s in the supply pipeline?


They are both in the supply pipeline


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## lguvenoz

Was more than happy to help out, and am just glad to now be able to change my signature to show my R16 

Also to continue to echo the earlier sentiment... This is by far my favorite DirecTV DVR in a very long time. Rock solid, and the quietness is almost unsettling.


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## bjflynn04

I am also glad that I was able to help out and am now able to so the R16 in my signature.


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## DBEX

Who's the manufacturer?
Or should I say R16-?


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## dmurphy

DBEX said:


> Who's the manufacturer?
> Or should I say R16-?


R16-300. Philips.


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## krock918316

Nice to be able to talk about this finally! Very quiet and absolutely no problems. NICE!


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## or270

I guess we have gone public now


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## bonscott87

Nice job guys. You sure kept this a secret!

I'm disappointed that there is no ethernet port. Not so much concerned about VOD but that means for sure it won't be part of any future MRV solution. I guess when my DirecTivo finally dies I'll just replace it with an HR21 so that I can hook it up to the network. Tragic.


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## LameLefty

Very nice looking unit - I still have two SD DVRs (R15-500s) and no big plans to replace them soon, but those are sweet!


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## LI-SVT

Good work guys, the R16 looks great. I have a couple of questions about it.

Is the R16 NDS or DirecTv software?

Does the R16 have the same known issues as the R15?
For example showing the record icon in the guide for programs not scheduled to record.

Does it have unique issues compared to the R15?

If so, what are they.


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## RAD

bonscott87 said:


> Nice job guys. You sure kept this a secret!
> 
> I'm disappointed that there is no ethernet port. Not so much concerned about VOD but that means for sure it won't be part of any future MRV solution. I guess when my DirecTivo finally dies I'll just replace it with an HR21 so that I can hook it up to the network. Tragic.


Yea, I thought that the R15 replacement might include it, not only for VoD but to get rid of the phone line requirement. But who knows, there's still a chance that D* could enable the USB port for a USB->Ethernet adapter like Tivo did.

Haven't seen it mentioned, does the R16 have the hardware to access the Ka and MPEG4 signals so folks that are getting locals from D10 don't need a HD STB?

BTW, nice job keeping it secret. I know how hard it is to want to jump up and down and say look what I have.


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## Earl Bonovich

RAD said:


> Haven't seen it mentioned, does the R16 have the hardware to access the Ka and MPEG4 signals so folks that are getting locals from D10 don't need a HD STB?


It does not have tuners compatible with KA

Thoes that have locals on D10, will still have to use the H* series systems.


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## wweguy

Why are they bothering to release a SD receiver? You would think they would be trying to phase out the SD boxes and begin rolling out HD boxes in all new customers homes.

Seems like it would be more cost effeciant in the long run.


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## Earl Bonovich

Because there are about 15+ million customers that don't have HD today...
And probably will only upgrade one of their TV's to HD "tomorrow"

SD Display screens are going nowhere any time soon.

Out of my 6 TV's in my home, only 2 are HD compatible... and I have no plans to update the others, until they break..

So $$$ of building an HD receiver vs an SD receiver, is significantly lower.
Why put that extra cost, into a box... for features that won't be used?


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## Stuart Sweet

This is also an excellent chance for those still using an aging TiVo unit to upgrade with confidence. This unit is a far, far better one than the initial release of R15. Very solid. For those who thought R15 hadn't gone far from its 2005 roots, this device might convince them to migrate.


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## Herdfan

Nice work guys. I know what its like to be on the "other" side and have to keep things quiet. 

One question I didn't see answered, and maybe this is still secret, but is the R16 based on the same NDS base as the R15, or is it a DirecTV designed base similar to the HR series?


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## Earl Bonovich

Herdfan said:


> Nice work guys. I know what its like to be on the "other" side and have to keep things quiet.
> 
> One question I didn't see answered, and maybe this is still secret, but is the R16 based on the same NDS base as the R15, or is it a DirecTV designed base similar to the HR series?


NDS is responsible for the code in the R16


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## Herdfan

Earl Bonovich said:


> NDS is responsible for the code in the R16


Thank you.


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## Mark20

Haven't read the report yet but its styling grabbed me right away. R15 is a bit bland in the styling department.


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## jutley

My first two DVRs a few years ago were R15s. Having dealt with the problems the R15 had in its infancy, I was sure we would have lots of bugs to work out of the R16. Wow...was I wrong. I wouldn't hesitate for a minute to recommend the R16 to anyone. It is such a rock solid performer. D* did a great job on this one!


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## jdmac29

Will these be $99 at retailers like BB? If directv does not get a software update to my TIVO real soon to keep it from rebooting everyday I might call them and ask for this as a replacement.


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## Malibu13

Very stable and reliable unit. It was a pleasure being involved in it's testing. During the release of the R15, i actually went partially bald, pulling out my hair because of it's issues. :eek2: With the R16, i believe i quickly regained some hair and sanity. 

The R16 was rock-solid out of the box and continues to perform solidly today.


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## harsh

bonscott87 said:


> I'm disappointed that there is no ethernet port. Not so much concerned about VOD but that means for sure it won't be part of any future MRV solution. I guess when my DirecTivo finally dies I'll just replace it with an HR21 so that I can hook it up to the network. Tragic.


Lacking the ability to down-convert nor handle MPEG4 content, it makes sense that the R16 would not play a part in an MRV or media sharing scenario.


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## ISWIZ

Donnie Byrd said:


> Very stable and reliable unit. It was a pleasure being involved in it's testing. During the release of the R15, i actually went partially bald, pulling out my hair because of it's issues. :eek2: With the R16, i believe i quickly regained some hair and sanity.
> 
> The R16 was rock-solid out of the box and continues to perform solidly today.


 I second what Donnie said. As a former TIVO person who went through the constant hassle of dealing with the first release of the R15, this box was a real pleasure.


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## RunnerFL

Nice Job guys!


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## jschramm

Why would they put out a box that doesnt have ethernet now that they have launched VOD?


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## Button Pusher

Good work guys! I still have an R15-300 and would like to upgrade to the R16 sometime.


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## Earl Bonovich

jschramm said:


> Why would they put out a box that doesnt have ethernet now that they have launched VOD?


Because the DoD offerings are not planned for the SD units at this time.

There is much more to DoD then just an ethernet connection


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## JJEZ96

Earl Bonovich said:


> Because there are about 15+ million customers that don't have HD today...
> And probably will only upgrade one of their TV's to HD "tomorrow"
> 
> SD Display screens are going nowhere any time soon.
> 
> Out of my 6 TV's in my home, only 2 are HD compatible... and I have no plans to update the others, until they break..
> 
> So $$$ of building an HD receiver vs an SD receiver, is significantly lower.
> Why put that extra cost, into a box... for features that won't be used?


Are these receivers mpeg4 compatible? If not I don't see why they wouldn't start
making mpeg4 sd receivers, so they could switch all channels to mpeg4 in the future.

JJ


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## Earl Bonovich

JJEZ96 said:


> Are these receivers mpeg4 compatible? If not I don't see why they wouldn't start
> making mpeg4 sd receivers, so they could switch all channels to mpeg4 in the future.
> 
> JJ


No they are not.

As I understand it, there are no plans to move all channels to MPEG-4 anywhere on the horizon.


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## bjdotson

I wish they had significantly increased the recording capacity. 100 hours is not enough


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## Phil T

Do they work without a phone line? 

My daughter will be moving out soon and wants to have DirecTV. I might spring for one of these for her, but I am sure she will never have a landline.


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## Earl Bonovich

bjdotson said:


> I wish they had significantly increased the recording capacity. 100 hours is not enough


For SD only?

For those that need more... go up to the HR20/21 level...

But I think for the larger majority of the targeted customer base... 100hrs is plenty.

For some 16TBs won't be enough...


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## Earl Bonovich

Phil T said:


> Do they work without a phone line?
> 
> My daughter will be moving out soon and wants to have DirecTV. I might spring for one of these for her, but I am sure she will never have a landline.


You would just not be able to use PPV via Remote purchases.
You would need www.directv.com to get PPVs


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## Chris Blount

Great job on the first look guys and thanks! Another example of the quality type users we have around here.

Kudos!!!


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## gregchak

Maybe I just don't understand the details about OTA inputs and maybe someone could enlighten me. The new HD DVR box HR21 does not come with an OTA input, but the new SD DVR R16 does. I noticed in the write up that the OTA input is "pass through only". Is it that this does not have an OTA "tuner"? I've never used the antenna input on a SD box so maybe some if my lack of understanding comes from there. I've used it in the HD world with the HD receivers and the OTA is integrated into the guide. I'd like to make clear that these comments are not an attempt to bash a receiver or DirecTV, just hoping some could clarify its use on the R16 and possibly DirecTV's reasoning for including it on the new SD DVR but on on its new HD DVR. Thanks guys. Great write up!


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## Earl Bonovich

The R16 has an RF pass through.
It is not an ATSC antenna.

Basically... when the unit is in standby... it will pass through the RF signal, to your TV... which you can then use your TV tuner to tune in what ever is on that signal.

The DVR doesn't use that input for any of it's usage.


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## Radio Enginerd

dmurphy said:


> Some more pictures of the R16 ...


Nice work and great pictures!


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## gregchak

Earl Bonovich said:


> The R16 has an RF pass through.
> It is not an ATSC antenna.
> 
> Basically... when the unit is in standby... it will pass through the RF signal, to your TV... which you can then use your TV tuner to tune in what ever is on that signal.
> 
> The DVR doesn't use that input for any of it's usage.


Thanks for the clarification Earl. Will that situation still be usable next February after the cutoff?


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## Earl Bonovich

gregchak said:


> Thanks for the clarification Earl. Will that situation still be usable next February after the cutoff?


Probably not... unless you have a Digital OTA converter box...

Coudl still have a VCR or some other device with an RF output, that you could connect to it.


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## gregchak

Earl Bonovich said:


> Probably not... unless you have a Digital OTA converter box...
> 
> Coudl still have a VCR or some other device with an RF output, that you could connect to it.


I see where you are going with this. Its not necessarily an antenna input but a RF input for any device that can send a signal over that connection. Makes much more sense now. Thanks again Earl.


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## Edmund

What remote code does the R16 use for its alternate code, 00002 or 00003?


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## dmurphy

gregchak said:


> I see where you are going with this. Its not necessarily an antenna input but a RF input for any device that can send a signal over that connection. Makes much more sense now. Thanks again Earl.


Right. And it only works if you have the R16 in standby mode.

Basically, just a way to connect another device, without a switchbox, to your TV via RF.


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## RobertE

Interesting that it is a PATA drive instead of SATA. Maybe thats just limited to the -300. Guess we'll have to wait for the appearance of any additional manufactures.

Good thing is, thats the next to the last roadblock out of the way for full scale SWM rollout. Of course the last roadblock is getting production to catch up with demand on the SWMs.


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## mrdbdigital

Will the R16 be able to record an SD version of the ATSC channels with the new tuner box (via the USB port) that DirecTV is coming out with?


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## carl6

RobertE said:


> Interesting that it is a PATA drive instead of SATA.


Not surprising at all, given that all R15 models also use the same drive.

Carl


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## carl6

mrdbdigital said:


> Will the R16 be able to record an SD version of the ATSC channels with the new tuner box (via the USB port) that DirecTV is coming out with?


I don't think there are any plans to incorporate ATSC tuner capability (with the external tuner box) with the R16.

No DirecTV SD equipment has ever had OTA capability. I don't expect that to change.

Carl


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## Drewg5

Nice work guys.


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## Groundhog45

Very nice first look, guys.


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## Stuart Sweet

carl6 said:


> Not surprising at all, given that all R15 models also use the same drive.
> 
> Carl


PATA drives provide the throughput you need for an SD DVR and are probably cheaper in quantity.


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## qwerty

carl6 said:


> Not surprising at all, given that all R15 models also use the same drive.
> 
> Carl


Same type, but not the same drive. I saw a post from ThomasM where one of his had something other than a Seagate. Maxtor, I think.


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## raott

jschramm said:


> Why would they put out a box that doesnt have ethernet now that they have launched VOD?


Pretty clear to me that D* is not serious about DOD.


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## Earl Bonovich

raott said:


> Pretty clear to me that D* is not serious about DOD.


Why?

There is a LOT more to DoD then just the network connection.


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## SAlBO

nice look....Great work guys.......Thanks for the info


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## RobertE

carl6 said:


> Not surprising at all, given that all R15 models also use the same drive.
> 
> Carl


There was a dead -100 or -300 that I took apart before sending it back that had a SATA drive in it. Just can't remember which one.


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## manhole

raott said:


> Pretty clear to me that D* is not serious about DOD.


The DoD is more than likely encoded in MPEG4 which the R15/R16 cannot decode. Why put an ethernet port on something that will not be able to use it


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## smiddy

Wow, looks good folks. Thanks for sharing!


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## ThomasM

Earl Bonovich said:


> Because there are about 15+ million customers that don't have HD today...
> And probably will only upgrade one of their TV's to HD "tomorrow"


Quite true!! I'm one of them!!

And if anyone believes that nonsense some posters like passing out about getting an HD DVR "now" and using it to feed an SD TV "because it is so much better than the SD DVR", there is probably still some of that great land in Florida for sale...


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## Earl Bonovich

ThomasM said:


> Quite true!! I'm one of them!!
> 
> And if anyone believes that nonsense some posters like passing out about getting an HD DVR "now" and using it to feed an SD TV "because it is so much better than the SD DVR", there is probably still some of that great land in Florida for sale...


If you are intrested in DoD...
And some of the HD Only channels (like Smithsonian and MGM)... (as it will down convert)
And the media share functions
And the larger hard drive...

Then there is some reason to get the HR2* unit now... even if it is just SD


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## ThomasM

qwerty said:


> Same type, but not the same drive. I saw a post from ThomasM where one of his had something other than a Seagate. Maxtor, I think.


Actually, Seagate BOUGHT Maxtor....but they still keep selling drives with both names for some reason. 

My old (circa 2005) reconditioned R15 has a Maxtor Diamondstore 10 drive. My new R15 (built early 2007) has a Seagate BARRACUDA drive. Maybe that's why it always seems to be doing something fishy. 

I wonder what drive the R16 has in it? Probably the BARRACUDA since it has the same recording capacity and 160Gb seems to be plenty for that and the showcases. (I think SD takes about 1Gb per hour of programming-correct me someone if I'm wrong)


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## Earl Bonovich

ThomasM said:


> Actually, Seagate BOUGHT Maxtor....but they still keep selling drives with both names for some reason.


Sometimes the NAME is worth more then the technology.

Just like when 3COM purchased USRobotics


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## ThomasM

Earl Bonovich said:


> If you are intrested in DoD...
> And some of the HD Only channels (like Smithsonian and MGM)... (as it will down convert)
> And the media share functions
> And the larger hard drive...
> 
> Then there is some reason to get the HR2* unit now... even if it is just SD


Ha ha!! Folks with the $$$ to pay the upcharge for HD service from DirecTV and the $$$ to afford a DirecTV HD DVR and an upgraded dish can probably also afford an HDTV to connect it to.

In my opinion, an HD box/subscription for someone who does not have an HDTV is like putting "premium" gas in your car "for the increased performance". Granted, there must actually BE people who do that as gas stations offer it, but I've never met one or seen anyone buying it while I was filling up.


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## or270

Edmund said:


> What remote code does the R16 use for its alternate code, 00002 or 00003?


I think it was 00002 it is a different code choice than the HR20's as I had 2 HR20's and the R16 on the same remote using IR.


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## chuckg

The thing that impresses me is the serious reduction in chip count compared to the many chips (most of which I have identified and found mfgs data sheets for) in my Samsung series 2. And the tuners occupying a such a small area and enclosed in an RF shield.


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## or270

ThomasM said:


> Ha ha!! Folks with the $$$ to pay the upcharge for HD service from DirecTV and the $$$ to afford a DirecTV HD DVR and an upgraded dish can probably also afford an HDTV to connect it to.


I have 6 HD DVR's and no HD TV's probably will not have for a couple of years. The HR20's hold more programming have a better picture and are able to have a series link the same show on different channels, the R15/R16 does not do this at this time.


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## Drew2k

Nice work on the first look, gang! The R16 has a sleek new look, and the First Look has a sleek new look! I like!


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## ProfLonghair

It is a great box. The only difficulty I had with it was keeping my mouth shut about being in the trial.

The real story here: It kept my 2 year old daughter happy. Every time. I can't give a better endorsement than that. She even figured out how to use it (but my mother in law needed instructions every time).


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## raott

Earl Bonovich said:


> Why?
> 
> There is a LOT more to DoD then just the network connection.


I'm sure there is, but without the network connection, no DOD. The introduction of a new DVR that doesn't include network capability means no DOD for anyone using that box and, in my mind, means they are not serious about DOD.


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## Earl Bonovich

raott said:


> I'm sure there is, but without the network connection, no DOD. The introduction of a new DVR that doesn't include network capability means no DOD for anyone using that box and, in my mind, means they are not serious about DOD.


To each their own.


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## ThomasM

Well, I've read all the posts here regarding how the R16 does not cause you to pull out your hair and does everything right that the R15 does wrong.

So am I to believe that the R16 records series links PERFECTLY? When an "R" icon appears in the program guide associated with a show it will ALWAYS BE RECORDED? Shows NEVER "magically" disappear from the TO DO list? All the posts in this forum about shows that air multiple times (especially kids shows) getting goofed up by the R15 DON'T with the new R16? Recorded shows on the R16 NEVER terminate early? It never locks up or "freezes" during playback of a recording?

If all of this is true, DirecTV should immediately begin a program to upgrade subscribers that have R15's!!!


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## Earl Bonovich

All I know...

I have the same level of performance from my R16 that I had with my R15s.

32 Series Links, and nothing that I am aware of that has been missed.
Everything that has been watched, was complete.

Haven't had a need to reset or restart the unit.

Most of the code logic in the R16 is the same as the R15...
So if you were having issue with some shows on the R15... you are probably going to have the same issues with the R16... as it is tied to the guide data and how it is analyzed and scheduled.

So don't expect "miracles".

ThomasM... I know you have had nothing but a horrid time with your R15... 
So to "guarantee" you that you won't have any issues with an R16... can't do it.

There is no need to replace your R15 with an R16... unless you want SWM or the newer case design.


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## carl6

ThomasM said:


> I wonder what drive the R16 has in it?


My R16 has a Seagate ST3160215ACE, P/N 9CZ012-667, Firmware 3.ACG, Date code 07517. You can see the drive in the pictures that are incorporated in the first look document (although I just realized it's mounted upside down so you can't see the label).

Carl


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## HoTat2

Earl Bonovich said:


> All I know...
> 
> I have the same level of performance from my R16 that I had with my R15s.
> 
> 32 Series Links, and nothing that I am aware of that has been missed.
> Everything that has been watched, was complete.
> 
> Haven't had a need to reset or restart the unit.
> 
> Most of the code logic in the R16 is the same as the R15...
> So if you were having issue with some shows on the R15... you are probably going to have the same issues with the R16... as it is tied to the guide data and how it is analyzed and scheduled.
> 
> So don't expect "miracles".
> 
> ThomasM... I know you have had nothing but a horrid time with your R15...
> So to "guarantee" you that you won't have any issues with an R16... can't do it.
> 
> There is no need to replace your R15 with an R16... unless you want SWM or the newer case design.


I largely agree with Earl here. As opposed to the early years, my R15-500 is performing quite well nowadays, with no real issues, and I actually hate to lose it. But the DirecTV installer who is coming back on the 31st for my HD upgrade insist he must take the R15 with him after installing the HR21 in its stead. Otherwise I won't get the $100.00 instant rebate off the HR21.  Therefore he would have to charge me the full price of $299.00

My R15 is also still full of shows I want to watch, but simply do not have the time to get to them all before the Thursday deadline.

Sign...


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## LOCODUDE

Cool.....Me like.


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## Mark Holtz

Hmmm..... the only thing I don't like is the 100 hour capacity. I like my modified DirecTivo with the 239 hour capacity.

Will we see any mega capacity DVRs? How about upgrading the hard drive? 750GB hard drives, according to NewEgg, start at $154.


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## hdtvfan0001

Earl Bonovich said:


> All I know...
> 
> I have the same level of performance from my R16 that I had with my R15s.
> 
> 32 Series Links, and nothing that I am aware of that has been missed.
> Everything that has been watched, was complete.
> 
> Haven't had a need to reset or restart the unit.
> 
> Most of the code logic in the R16 is the same as the R15...
> So if you were having issue with some shows on the R15... you are probably going to have the same issues with the R16... as it is tied to the guide data and how it is analyzed and scheduled.
> 
> So don't expect "miracles".
> 
> ThomasM... I know you have had nothing but a horrid time with your R15...
> So to "guarantee" you that you won't have any issues with an R16... can't do it.
> 
> There is no need to replace your R15 with an R16... unless you want SWM or the newer case design.


Nice job on the First Look guys.

From what I see.....DirecTV has done a solid job of updating the R15 for SWM compatability, added a new look to sync up better with other updated hardware, and normalized the user interface for consistency. This model should hold them for some time for SD customers.


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## Earl Bonovich

Mark Holtz said:


> Hmmm..... the only thing I don't like is the 100 hour capacity. I like my modified DirecTivo with the 239 hour capacity.
> 
> Will we see any mega capacity DVRs? How about upgrading the hard drive? 750GB hard drives, according to NewEgg, start at $154.


My HR20 has a 1.5TB externa drive on it....


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## dishrich

What model remote comes with these R16's - does the RF remote come standard with them?


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## Earl Bonovich

RF does not come standard.

RC64 is the one that came in the box to the field testers.


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## tfederov

Forgive my tardiness to this thread. You guys did a wicked-cool job on this. I love the design of the box itself. Zero issues? That's extra wicked-cool!


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## qwerty

Earl Bonovich said:


> There is no need to replace your R15 with an R16... unless you want SWM or the newer case design.


Really? Those are the only reasons? Because the posts in this thread lead me to believe it's more reliable. So, it's no more reliable than an R-15?


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## carl6

qwerty said:


> Really? Those are the only reasons? Because the posts in this thread lead me to believe it's more reliable. So, it's no more reliable than an R-15?


I have both. An R15 that is over 2 years old now, and the R16 since October.

Like Earl and others have noted, the R15-500 has reached an acceptable level of stability. I don't use mine much anymore, but it is still in service and feeding one SD tv.

The R16 I placed in my home office where I have a small pile of DirecTV equipment that I am testing and playing with, so that I could pay more attention to it. I also loaded it up with more recordings than I normally schedule on my R15.

So far, the R16 has performed without incident. It has recorded what it has been told to. I have run it 98% full, and it properly deleted the oldest shows to record new as it needed space. I did not push it with regard to series links - only about ten - but had quite a few entries in the to-do list. A reasonable level of loading for an "average" user.

There are a lot of solid and reliable R15's out there. There are also a number of R15's that seem to have ongoing problems. I think those can be attributed to (a) a problem with the hard drive (bad sector for example) and/or (b) temperature problems. Doing a "reset everything" or "reformat" tends to provide temporary relief to the units with a drive problem (works until the drive fills up again to the bad spot), and those don't seem to get filtered out through the "refurb" process.

Whether or not the R16 will exhibit these problems once they are in wider use, I have no idea. But I think it is a good indicator that the small test group saw no problems at all over a few months. The fact that the R16 runs cooler is an indicator that the basic design was revisited between the R15 and R16, and I would hope and expect that any other design related issues were addressed. The hard drive is mounted better in the R16 (less sensitive to shock and better air flow). So there are good indications that the R16 will be a more reliable unit.

As far as the operating system and application software - our test group did not have problems, but I'm sure we didn't put the R16 through every possible combination of usage that it will see in wider use. I don't know how similar or different the software is. It looks the same on the surface but that doesn't mean much.

So while the R16 is essentially the same as the R15 at the user level, if I were looking for an SD DVR, the R16 would be my choice. I think there are lessons learned applied in it's design.

Carl


----------



## Earl Bonovich

qwerty said:


> Really? Those are the only reasons? Because the posts in this thread lead me to believe it's more reliable. So, it's no more reliable than an R-15?


Comparing DAY 1 of the R15 to DAY 1 of the R16.... no contest.. the R16 is significantly further ahead.

Comparing Day 811 for the R15 to Day 1 of the R16... not much difference.

As my R15 has been as reliable as any other receiver I have owned for well over a year, if not longer.


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## Spicoli

Do you need a certain dish for the SWM feature? Or can you use the existing dish?


----------



## jdmac29

Spicoli said:


> Do you need a certain dish for the SWM feature? Or can you use the existing dish?


Most of the SWM'S I know of are connected to the 5lnb dishes. They have 4 coax connections from that dish to the swm. I don't know if they will work with the single lnb,dual or triple lnb dishes. There is suppossedly a new dish coming out that has the swm built into it.


----------



## Spicoli

jdmac29 said:


> Most of the SWM'S I know of are connected to the 5lnb dishes. They have 4 coax connections from that dish to the swm. I don't know if they will work with the single lnb,dual or triple lnb dishes. There is suppossedly a new dish coming out that has the swm built into it.


I have the 3 lnb dish.


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## carl6

Spicoli said:


> Do you need a certain dish for the SWM feature? Or can you use the existing dish?


I can think of no reason that the SWM shouldn't work with most any dish. If it is the old original round 18" dish, then you would only connect the two inputs to the non-tone inputs of the SWM. If it is the 3-LNB Phase III dish, you would connect all four coax just like you do with the 5-LNB dish.

Obviously, you will only have access to the satellites that your particular dish can see, so an SWM connected to a Phase III won't give you the new mpeg4 feeds, even though the SWM itself is capable of handling them.

Carl


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## bonscott87

SWM will work with any dish. When my 5 LNB dish died (LNB took a dump) I put up my old 3 LNB dish and didn't change a thing with my cabling and the SWM worked just fine. The SWM is basically a different kind of multiswitch and it doesn't care what kind of dish it's connected to.


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## HoTat2

jdmac29 said:


> Most of the SWM'S I know of are connected to the 5lnb dishes. They have 4 coax connections from that dish to the swm. I don't know if they will work with the single lnb,dual or triple lnb dishes. *There is suppossedly a new dish coming out that has the swm built into it.*


If true, though intriguing at first look, I think it would have a severe drawback since you cannot cascade SWMs (that I'm aware of anyhow) such a dish would be limited to only feeding the number of tuners indicated by the number following the letters "SWM."

For example, if the dish had an integrated SWM-8 in its LNB assembly, it could only be connected to a maximum of four SWM capable DVRs.


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## Earl Bonovich

HoTat2 said:


> For example, if the dish had an integrated SWM-8 in its LNB assembly, it could only be connected to a maximum of four SWM capable DVRs.


That is correct...

But that is a relatively high number... and on the outer edge of the curve of the normal customer base.

SWMLine Dish is not for every customer.
The regular Slimline dish is still going to be available for those that need more connections.


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## tony4d

I can't believe they left out an ethernet port!?!

I'll never get one, rather just do hd-dvr, or hopefully the mce tuner, whenever they release that.


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## ThomasM

Earl Bonovich said:


> All I know...
> 
> ThomasM... I know you have had nothing but a horrid time with your R15...
> So to "guarantee" you that you won't have any issues with an R16... can't do it.
> 
> There is no need to replace your R15 with an R16... unless you want SWM or the newer case design.


That's not true! I'm actually pretty happy with my R15's-but I like to analyze software problems and do workarounds. That's what I did for a living as an IT desktop support specialist, and believe me Microsoft Windows came up with a lot more tricky obstacles than the R15!! 

As a result, I know how to get it to do what I want it to. If you keep a close watch on the R15, it WILL record all the shows you want it to. But for a regular DirecTV customer (like my sister for example who can't even set the clock on her old VCR), the R15 would be a reason to cancel DirecTV. She doesn't care about "R" icons or TO DO lists and such. She would just want to know where Tuesday's episode of "Days of Your Life" is and WHY it wasn't recorded because it was set up as a series link!!!

The new laughable promo on the DirecTV web site that touts the "new" R15 features (like skip-to-tick which it never tells you how to operate) states that Series Link will record ALL the episodes of your favorite show. If indeed your R15(s) do this, you should immediately go out and buy some lottery tickets, as I have NEVER seen another poster on this system that has an R15 that has had such good luck that they can claim they have had an equal experience.

Now, if the R16 is just a new pretty case with the same old performance issues and no new features, (except SWM which most of the DirecTV customers don't need) I see little reason to bother upgrading.

I'm sure many others reading this "first look" thread are also looking for a true upgrade to the R15 and not just a new case/SWM support...


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## personman

Earl Bonovich said:


> If you are intrested in DoD...
> And some of the HD Only channels (like Smithsonian and MGM)... (as it will down convert)
> And the media share functions
> And the larger hard drive...
> 
> Then there is some reason to get the HR2* unit now... even if it is just SD


Per the D* terms and conditions, you have to pay for the HD and DVR fees or you are required to return the unit. The DVR is not such a big deal, but if you don't have HD, then that could be a turn off for some.




> DVR service activation ($5.99/mo.) required for DVR leases; HD Access fee ($9.99/mo.) required for HD Receiver leases; and, both DVR service and HD Access fee payment required for HD DVR leases.


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## Monduj1

Still no Dual Live Buffers? No reason to trade in my DirecTivo's then.


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## Earl Bonovich

personman said:


> Per the D* terms and conditions, you have to pay for the HD and DVR fees or you are required to return the unit. The DVR is not such a big deal, but if you don't have HD, then that could be a turn off for some.


As I stated... There is still value if you want access to some of those HD only channels as well....

Plus you could then argue that extra fee gives you access to the other featuers that the HR* units have, that the R* units don't.

It certainly would be a turn off for some, but for others they may find the $10 value in the other things you gain.


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## rsblaski

Just a couple of quick questions as I seldom (maybe once a year) even look at my old R10. We have the R10 in a bedroom where our grandkids stay when they visit. Today I was just checking to make sure it was working and found that the toll free number for guide info was no longer in existence. The only numbers available are toll numbers and we don't have long distance service.

So much for background, now the questions:
1. Does the R15/16 get the guide info from the sat as my hr20s do or does it still get guide info via telephone, in which case I am SOL.
2. I am assuming but want to verify that since I only have one line into that bedroom that the 15/16 will still work with just one input.

Thanks,
Rick


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## personman

rsblaski said:


> Just a couple of quick questions as I seldom (maybe once a year) even look at my old R10. We have the R10 in a bedroom where our grandkids stay when they visit. Today I was just checking to make sure it was working and found that the toll free number for guide info was no longer in existence. The only numbers available are toll numbers and we don't have long distance service.
> 
> So much for background, now the questions:
> 1. Does the R15/16 get the guide info from the sat as my hr20s do or does it still get guide info via telephone, in which case I am SOL.
> 2. I am assuming but want to verify that since I only have one line into that bedroom that the 15/16 will still work with just one input.
> 
> Thanks,
> Rick


All the D* R* H* and HR* receivers get software and guide info from the satellites. You only really need a phone connection to use pay per view ordering via remote.


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## RAD

The R15/R16 don't get any info over the phone line, everything including remote booking comes over the satellite. The phone line is used for remote control PPV ordering to remote back to the D* computers your purchases. You can still order PPV's just by ordering them via the D* web site.


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## rsblaski

Thanks for all the answers. I didn't know that this thread would be as active as the regular R15/16 thread, so I double posted there. Sorry about that.


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## qwerty

Of course, it also provides caller ID (assuming it works). And, I believe it phones in your viewing habits unless you opt out.


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## hombresoto

tony4d said:


> I can't believe they left out an ethernet port!?!
> 
> I'll never get one, rather just do hd-dvr, or hopefully the mce tuner, whenever they release that.


That's EXACTLY why there is no ethernet port on the r16, they want people to upgrade to HD, and the hd dvr especially since the cost of the hr21 is decreasing and they can add average subscriber revenue via the hd access fee.


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## Kevin Dupuy

Earl Bonovich said:


> Why?
> 
> There is a LOT more to DoD then just the network connection.


Well, because they just released a new DVR box without the capacity... and since as you said, most people only want SD right now, not HD, so they'll get the R16. If DIRECTV just released a new box, they should have been able to incorporate whatever they need for DOD into the box during development.


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## Spicoli

Earl Bonovich said:


> DirecTV has released it latest standard definition DVR, the R16 to the public.
> 
> And DBSTalk brings you the details.... first...
> 
> Here's our First Look at the R16
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you to dmurphy, carl6 and all the field testers for this great first look


Any word when it will be available in the stores? Best Buy, Circuit City, ETC...


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## qwerty

Spicoli said:


> Any word when it will be available in the stores? Best Buy, Circuit City, ETC...


I looked at Best Buy yesterday and didn't see it.


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## Stuart Sweet

It took about 2 months for HR21s to show up at the local Costco if that's any indication


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## ThomasM

personman said:


> All the D* R* H* and HR* receivers get software and guide info from the satellites. You only really need a phone connection to use pay per view ordering via remote.


Or if you have sports subscriptions. They use the phone line to see if you've taken your box out of your local market and set it up where a game is blacked out.


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## ThomasM

qwerty said:


> Of course, it also provides caller ID (assuming it works). And, I believe it phones in your viewing habits unless you opt out.


They still phone in every 2-3 days. You have to trust that DirecTV is honoring your privacy choice and disregarding the info called in. Yeah right.


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## qwerty

ThomasM said:


> Or if you have sports subscriptions. They use the phone line to see if you've taken your box out of your local market and set it up where a game is blacked out.


If you subscribe to a sports package, don't you get the blacked out games? Don't they advertise "Every game", or something like that?


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## BattleZone

qwerty said:


> If you subscribe to a sports package, don't you get the blacked out games? Don't they advertise "Every game", or something like that?


Blacked-out games are FCC rules that apply to ALL carriers. DirecTV is not exempt.


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## krock918316

IIP said:


> Blacked-out games are FCC rules that apply to ALL carriers. DirecTV is not exempt.


Then how do you explain Sunday Ticket? You get all of the games. Same with NBA League Pass.


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## dave29

Stuart Sweet said:


> It took about 2 months for HR21s to show up at the local Costco if that's any indication


my supplier actually had these in stock about a week and a half before you guys did the first look. i guess they are going to be targeted more towards the mdu installations first, from what i gathered. i dont really need one, but im thinking about ordering one just to check it out.(and replace an old r15, even though it works perfectly)


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## dave29

well i ordered an r16 friday and it came in today, cant wait to check it out and hook it up the my swm


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## jutley

dave29 said:


> well i ordered an r16 friday and it came in today, cant wait to check it out and hook it up the my swm


You'll like it...it's a well designed machine.


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## DouglasPHill

Hi everyone,
Thanks for all of the info. Here is what I have been able to pick up from this thread:
1) Very stable box, 2) 100 hours, 3) No ethernet, 4) No dual buffers,
5) SWM is a switch that lets you hook up multiple R16s to your dish
6) Does not need a phone line
7) Season passes and recording behave as you expect.
7) Will work with my 18inch round dish.
Good info, still haven't decided what I'm going to do, ...should I stay or should I go....
Doug


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## Earl Bonovich

#5 - SWM allows you to use both tuners, with a single cable. You have always been able to hook up more then one to a single dish

#6 - Unless you want Caller-ID and PPV purchase via remote


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## DouglasPHill

Hi Earl,
Let me make sure I understand. Currently, I have two wires from my Dish going to my DirecTivo. If I had two R16s, I could use one wire for each. I would not need any type of switch. Thanks


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## carl6

DouglasPHill said:


> Hi Earl,
> Let me make sure I understand. Currently, I have two wires from my Dish going to my DirecTivo. If I had two R16s, I could use one wire for each. I would not need any type of switch. Thanks


Assuming you have a round "dual" LNB dish (two coax connectors):

You would have to run the two coax from the dish to an SWM8 (approx cost $300). You could then run a single coax from the SWM to your R16's and have dual tuner functionality on both R16's.

Optionally, you could use a regular multiswitch and run two coax to each R16 for dual tuner functionality.

The difference is the SWM provides the ability to feed both tuners from a single coax, but it is not integral to the R16, it is a separate multiswitch that you would have to buy and install. The R16 happens to be compatible with the SWM, while the R15 is not.

Carl


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## DouglasPHill

Thanks Carl


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## dodge boy

I have an R10 in my son's room with 2 cables, an R15 in my living room with 2 cables and an R15 in my room with 1 cable. I have a multi switch that takes signal from 72.5 degree sat for my locals and a 3 lnb main dish (only reconized as a single lnb dish) and sends these signals to all my receivers. If I change my multi switch and out an R16 in my bedroom with this (change of switch) screw up the rest of my receivers? Will they all need replaced with R16's for compatability with the new switch? I would also be able to put 2 R16's at my other DVR locations (livingroom, son's room) and have 4 tuners 200 hrs at each location, correct? I also have a seperate install on my garage (2 round dishes and 2 feeds for a Tivo out there that could be upgraded to 2 R16's as well).


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## carl6

dodge boy,
The R10 and R15's won't run from an SWM. You would have to replace those with R16's. (well, they will run from the legacy ports, but you have a max of 3 feeds there - not enough to run three dual tuner DVRs).

The SWM will support a total of 8 tuners (not DVRs), so four R16's total would max it out.

The 72.5 throws a wrinkle in your options. I would suggest running an SWM in parallel to your existing multiswitch. Keep the R10 and two R15's set up just like they are running from the old multiswitch, and use the SWM to feed any new units. What I don't know is how well the 72.5 dish will work if split to feed two multiswitches (has anyone done this?).

Carl


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## dodge boy

I was just considering wether it would be more feesable to get an R16 for my bedroom and change the switch or just run another line up there... That's all sounds like another line is better in my opinion.... An expensive switch, still need my old switch. On the 72.5 dish all my locals are on 1 Transponder so I could run 1 line to each switch (Lnb is bual outpout) I bet. I could probably "stack" the line running to my bedroom, use a high frequency splitter and then "destack" it with the internal destackes in the R15.... I just would have no locals.


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## dave29

internal destackers in the r15?....... am i missing something here.


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## Earl Bonovich

dave29 said:


> internal destackers in the r15?....... am i missing something here.


Yes, the R15 has built in destackers.
I am not sure if the R16 does though


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## dave29

so does it require a special stacker to stack the signal


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## Earl Bonovich

dave29 said:


> so does it require a special stacker to stack the signal


Yes.

MFH-1 compliant stacker


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## dave29

thanks, i will stop talking about the r15 in the r16 thread now


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## DTV7300

DirecTV Cannot go back to using TIVO They did not choose to Cancel the contract TIVO did. and as a technician for direct am I glad. TIVO has there own independent boxes that are a peice of junk youi can only record one program no tuner 2 option


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## dave29

DTV7300 said:


> DirecTV Cannot go back to using TIVO They did not choose to Cancel the contract TIVO did. and as a technician for direct am I glad. TIVO has there own independent boxes that are a peice of junk youi can only record one program no tuner 2 option


that was random and just came out of nowhere


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## xmguy

Mark Holtz said:


> Hmmm..... the only thing I don't like is the 100 hour capacity. I like my modified DirecTivo with the 239 hour capacity.
> 
> Will we see any mega capacity DVRs? How about upgrading the hard drive? 750GB hard drives, according to NewEgg, start at $154.


I resently aquried a DirecTV Tivo from eBay. 80hr. Series 2. Can the HD be upgraded. I had a ReplayTV 5040 with a 160gb HD for 160+ hr at low quality. I'm keeping the Tivo as backup since my R15-100 has been set up with my recording schedules and recorded programs. I know this is off topic, BUT can the USB ports on the Tivo be enabled for downloading into a PC? Also I'm new to the D* lingo what is SWM?.

Thanks


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## Drew2k

dave29 said:


> that was random and just came out of nowhere


I think someone read something that piqued their interest but forgot to click the "Reply with Quote" button.


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## dave29

Drew2k said:


> I think someone read something that piqued their interest but forgot to click the "Reply with Quote" button.


i think that you are right...... i hope


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## Jhon69

xmguy said:


> I resently aquried a DirecTV Tivo from eBay. 80hr. Series 2. Can the HD be upgraded. I had a ReplayTV 5040 with a 160gb HD for 160+ hr at low quality. I'm keeping the Tivo as backup since my R15-100 has been set up with my recording schedules and recorded programs. I know this is off topic, BUT can the USB ports on the Tivo be enabled for downloading into a PC? Also I'm new to the D* lingo what is SWM?.
> 
> Thanks


Single Wire Module.Capable of running 2 tuners off 1 coax.


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## xmguy

Jhon69 said:


> Single Wire Module.Capable of running 2 tuners off 1 coax.


Thanks. I'm still new to the D* terms. Will the R15 support a SWM setup?


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## carl6

xmguy said:


> Thanks. I'm still new to the D* terms. Will the R15 support a SWM setup?


The R15 does NOT support SWM. The R16 DOES support SWM. The R16 is the newer version standard def DVR, replacing the R15.

Carl


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## desslock

Earl Bonovich said:


> All I know...
> 
> I have the same level of performance from my R16 that I had with my R15s.
> 
> 32 Series Links, and nothing that I am aware of that has been missed.
> Everything that has been watched, was complete.
> 
> Haven't had a need to reset or restart the unit.
> 
> Most of the code logic in the R16 is the same as the R15...
> So if you were having issue with some shows on the R15... you are probably going to have the same issues with the R16... as it is tied to the guide data and how it is analyzed and scheduled.
> 
> So don't expect "miracles".
> 
> ThomasM... I know you have had nothing but a horrid time with your R15...
> So to "guarantee" you that you won't have any issues with an R16... can't do it.
> 
> There is no need to replace your R15 with an R16... unless you want SWM or the newer case design.


Earl,

What about the problem reported on the R15-500 where the 1194 code makes tuner 2 suddenly die. It has happened to me and it has happened identically to user "Gordon Sewer". I had thought coincidence until Gordon described EXACTLY the same reactions as my R15-500. Right down to program audio playing over the Signal meters from Tuner 1. That can't be coincidence.


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## harsh

xmguy said:


> I know this is off topic, BUT can the USB ports on the Tivo be enabled for downloading into a PC?


No, the DirecTiVo units don't directly support USB transfers.

I'm confused about your use of "Series 2" in reference to a DirecTiVo.


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## xmguy

harsh said:


> No, the DirecTiVo units don't directly support USB transfers.
> 
> I'm confused about your use of "Series 2" in reference to a DirecTiVo.


Upon boot up accessing the info screen. Displays SERIES2 TIVO. I _know_ there are "hacks" to activate the usb ports on those units.
Just did not know how.


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## jbaron76

Is there a way existing R15 owners can get an upgrade to the R16 without signing a commitment? I have not been happy at all with my R15, and it seems that if the R16 is the fix for all of these issues, we should get this upgrade free of charge. Otherwise, it is as though we are being penalized for being the first to try a non-Tivo offering from DirecTV.


----------



## Earl Bonovich

jbaron76 said:


> Is there a way existing R15 owners can get an upgrade to the R16 without signing a commitment? I have not been happy at all with my R15, and it seems that if the R16 is the fix for all of these issues, we should get this upgrade free of charge. Otherwise, it is as though we are being penalized for being the first to try a non-Tivo offering from DirecTV.


None that I am aware of.

The R16 is not considered an upgrade for the R15.
It is just the latest model.


----------



## gordon1fan

jbaron76 said:


> Is there a way existing R15 owners can get an upgrade to the R16 without signing a commitment? I have not been happy at all with my R15, and it seems that if the R16 is the fix for all of these issues, we should get this upgrade free of charge. Otherwise, it is as though we are being penalized for being the first to try a non-Tivo offering from DirecTV.


Sorry, to tell you, but no they won't, and here is the reason why. I called DIRECTV last week asking them to replace my R15-100 because it was locking up and rebooting. I ask them if they could send me a R16. The man said that he had no control on what DIRECTV sends out. Today, I got my receiver in the mail via Fed Ex, and it was a R15-400 receiver, no R16.


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## ThomasM

gordon1fan said:


> Today, I got my receiver in the mail via Fed Ex, and it was a R15-400 receiver, no R16.


A WHAT?? Are you SURE it's an R15-*400*?


----------



## LOCODUDE

gordon1fan said:


> Sorry, to tell you, but no they won't, and here is the reason why. I called DIRECTV last week asking them to replace my R15-100 because it was locking up and rebooting. I ask them if they could send me a R16. The man said that he had no control on what DIRECTV sends out. Today, I got my receiver in the mail via Fed Ex, and it was a* R15-400 receiver*, no R16.


*R15-400??? WHAT????* Please post a pic.........


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## gordon1fan

LOCODUDE said:


> *R15-400??? WHAT????* Please post a pic.........


Sorry guys, my bad, it was a typeo! :lol: It's a R15-300!


----------

