# People that had Direct and switched to Dish Please!



## MadScientist (Dec 1, 2004)

Hello, 
I would like to ask all Direct-TV people that have switched to Dish Network why? I am thinking after going with Direct-TV with their new HR-34 receiver and two HD receivers. I been with Dish for more than ten years and this offer that Direct has now is best I seen. It would save me over $400.00 over the two year contract with Direct. I just want some feedback. Dish really does not care if I stay or go I contacted them and really no offer to stay.


----------



## mike01001 (Oct 13, 2011)

Free HD for life number one. Ability to attach a hard drive to the 211k and not have to pay for a DVR. Directv programming packages are better, but there is so much crap on tv I could not justfy the expense of their programming anymore. I was able to add the hockey package with the money I saved. Also during football season the Redzone channel is gold, and is far better than having to pay for Sunday Ticket at Directv for $350. I'm not saying I would never switch back, but until my two year contract is up, I'll be satisfied.


----------



## Rduce (May 16, 2008)

Honestly, I do not see why folks fall for promotional offers that are there to lure you in! I did a little checking with Direct and found that after the promo period was over my bill, which was comparable to what I was already paying Dish, would jump to astronomical proportions. Checking with Uverse I would have to pay $20 more per month, even under the promo offer and I just refuse to go back to Charter on principle!


----------



## [email protected] Network (Jul 21, 2011)

MadScientist said:


> Hello,
> I would like to ask all Direct-TV people that have switched to Dish Network why? I am thinking after going with Direct-TV with their new HR-34 receiver and two HD receivers. I been with Dish for more than ten years and this offer that Direct has now is best I seen. It would save me over $400.00 over the two year contract with Direct. I just want some feedback. Dish really does not care if I stay or go I contacted them and really no offer to stay.


We do value your business! I would like the opportunity to see if there is anything we can do to keep you as a customer. Please send me a PM with your phone or account number so I may review your account. Thank you!


----------



## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

MadScientist said:


> Hello,
> I would like to ask all Direct-TV people that have switched to Dish Network why? I am thinking after going with Direct-TV with their new HR-34 receiver and two HD receivers. I been with Dish for more than ten years and this offer that Direct has now is best I seen. It would save me over $400.00 over the two year contract with Direct. I just want some feedback. Dish really does not care if I stay or go I contacted them and really no offer to stay.


At the time DISH had the best offer to come back I have ever seen,that's why I switched from DirecTV.

I know how you feel,if DISH did not have the most basic channels in HD,I would go back.

OH! Yea! That's the equipment(HR34/5 Tuners/Woo Hoo!!) I would go with also.Good Luck!

My son is dumping Comcast and getting the HR34.

But it's $99. dollars extra for the upgrade to the HR34 online with the Premiere package which is what he is getting.


----------



## MadScientist (Dec 1, 2004)

Thank you sir, but I asked one of your members here from Dish for help and she said no. After being with Dish for more then ten years there was nothing she can do. This is why I am looking at going to Direct-TV. I am a bit turned off on this whole thing.



[email protected] Network said:


> We do value your business! I would like the opportunity to see if there is anything we can do to keep you as a customer. Please send me a PM with your phone or account number so I may review your account. Thank you!


----------



## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

Periodically I receive junk mail from DISH asking me to switch. The results are always the same. I think about it, laugh about it, and forget about it.


----------



## Lazy Senior (Jan 24, 2005)

I play the promo game from time to time. I have been with Directv 3 different times and Dish 2 different times. I am presently at the end of a 2 year contract with Dish. I *may* go back to Directv, mainly because of promos. However IMO Dish has the best service for the money. More channels and more HD for the $$$ with Dish. Promos are *very enticing* and neither service has ever offered me anything to stay with them until after I have switched.


----------



## Slamminc11 (Jan 28, 2005)

MadScientist said:


> Thank you sir, but I asked one of your members here from Dish for help and she said no. After being with Dish for more then ten years there was nothing she can do. This is why I am looking at going to Direct-TV. I am a bit turned off on this whole thing.


my guess is not that she said no, but that your request wasn't something that was able to be done no matter who you asked. Just because you have been with them for a long time doesn't mean you should just get whatever you want.
I think you should just go to Direct or whomever.


----------



## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

I think the companies should start doing a better job job of tracking the people that jump back and forth between providers due to promotions. The constant churn raises the prices for everyone. If the companies just started saying no to someone that leaves after 2 years then comes back as soon as they are eligible for all the promo offers, they would see that these are not the valued customers they are looking for.


----------



## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

CCarncross said:


> I think the companies should start doing a better job job of tracking the people that jump back and forth between providers due to promotions. The constant churn raises the prices for everyone. If the companies just started saying no to someone that leaves after 2 years then comes back as soon as they are eligible for all the promo offers, they would see that these are not the valued customers they are looking for.


+1


----------



## Matt9876 (Oct 11, 2007)

I switched from DirecTV HD to Dish HD for economic reasons, For three years now life has been good with Dish Network. 

I was able to turn a $90+ a month bill into $60 with Dish,so far this equals $1,000+ in my pocket.


----------



## Lazy Senior (Jan 24, 2005)

As someone who has churned frequently, I suggest Dish and DTV need to treat their current customers better. When a contract is up they offer nothing or way less than what they give to a new customer. Not too smart IMO.

Every time I have churned I sat down and figured out what the new service would save me in $$$ over the 2 year contract period. It has always been a *lot of money*.

Why should anyone be loyal when you can save $500 plus over a 2 year period? MY current contract is up on March 4 2012 and you can bet I am looking at Directv offers right now. I do not care about either company or whether my actions cost anyone more money. I am only interested in *me *getting the best deal possible for TV service.


----------



## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

I'm with you. As long as they make it so good to do, and it saves me some of my money, I'll go with what is the best deal for me.

That said, it seems that D* is more conducive to promos for existing customers than Dish generally is, but it isn't even close to what a new customer gets.


----------



## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

MysteryMan said:


> Periodically I receive junk mail from DISH asking me to switch. The results are always the same. I think about it, laugh about it, and forget about it.


Don't feel bad,I get the same thing with DirecTV.


----------



## Lazy Senior (Jan 24, 2005)

lparsons21 said:


> I'm with you. As long as they make it so good to do, and it saves me some of my money, I'll go with what is the best deal for me.


FWIW, 2 years ago my contract with Directv was ending. I had a HDDVR and a HD Receiver. I wanted to exchange the Receiver for a DVR. In other words my wife had found out how nice a DVR was and wanted one in her Living Room.

I called DTV and told them what I wanted. I was more than willing to sign another 2 year contract to get the DVR free. I was offered a HD DVR for $150, (a discount of $50) for being a "valued customer". I said no thanks, I can be be valued more at Dish. I then called Dish and got 2 free HD DVR's, free installation and discounted programming for a year, plus months of free HBO,SHOW,Cinemax. I signed with Dish that day.

Next day I called DTV to cancel. They offered me a HD DVR for $99. I laughed and said just cancel me. Then I got an offer of a free HD DVR, which is what I only wanted in the first place. I laughed again and said - Sorry too late, I just signed with Dish, cancel me.

For the next week Directv called me, offering various deals including a free HD DVR to re-sign with them. It was too late for them.

Now with my Dish contract nearing completion, it starts all over again, but this time DTV will probably win out with superior promos....


----------



## clotter (Apr 12, 2008)

I switched from DTV to Dish two years ago this April.

My main reasons for switching 2 years ago:

1. The DTV DVR was horribly slow. I absolutely hated it. Truly my #1 reason for switching. The 722k while not speedy, is acceptable, and is IMO better than the DTV DVR in most respects.
2. Price. I was able to get an upgraded programming package for roughly the same I was paying at Direct. More channels...
3. More HD. I didn't compare both companies offering directly at the time, but I was mildly shocked at how many HD channels Dish had over DTV that I actually watch. 
4. Bundled savings. I saved another $5 a month by bundling Dish with my phone service provider. 
5. The recent addition of Blockbuster is nice. At least the disc by mail part is. The streaming interface and overall experience is horrible IMO. It did allow me to save about $10 a month by dropping Netflix disc service. I still keep Netflix streaming because BB is so bad. 

I think some things have changed in the two years since I switched though. I need to start researching now, but these are the reasons I may consider switching back:

1. I have two 722k DVR's and I feel the extra charges for the second DVR are a bit ridiculous. If DTV can save me money with their whole home DVR or if Dish can with their upcoming marsupials, I will definitely be swayed in that direction. 
1A. I will definitely be wanting to replace my two 722k's with the KangaJoes. If Dish wants me to stay, they will need to offer me a deal I can't refuse on their latest and greatest equipment. DTV has something acceptable NOW and it would be the only thing I will consider from them. They WILL offer me a deal I can't refuse if I choose to switch. 
2. As a side note, the newer DTV DVR's are much faster than what I experienced two years ago. I think this is now a moot issue.
3. I will be upgrading from a 65" HDTV to a 110" front projector some time this year. It's widely reported that Direct has better HD picture quality than Dish. This may be much more apparent on a 110" screen. Better picture quality will trump most other issues. 
4. I really need to check out who now has the better HD package. If one of the companies offered a true HD only package (at a savings) I would be gone immediately. I could care less about SD anymore.
5. While I'm still getting a $5 bundling discount from my phone company, they have since started offering Direct with likely the same discount. I must be grandfathered in at this point.


----------



## mdavej (Jan 31, 2007)

Coming from DirecTV, Dish had a lot more HD content and lower prices in the long run. I too wish they would reward loyal customers like new ones. But that's how everybody works, like it or not. Sure you can switch every 2 years and save some money. But content trumps most everything else for me. I could never go back to all those SD channels I was stuck with at DirecTV, no matter how many tuners their new box has. Dish's new Hopper will add everything I've been missing from DirecTV and then some. Primetime Anytime, 3 tuners and 2TB is better than 5 tuners and only 1TB in my case. And I'll finally get real MRV and HD in every room, and an HD UI, something even the new HR34 still lacks. And the Hopper is blazing fast compared to the HR34. So until DirecTV adds some significant basic HD content, I'll be sticking with Dish for the foreseeable future.


----------



## Greg.E (Jan 16, 2012)

I was with Dish for many years. When HD free for life came out I didn't go for it and sign a 2 year contract because I knew down the road that I would be building a house and having to move to a rental for a while. When the time came to go to my rental, I cancelled Dish and went with our local cable company. I absolutely hate it and I am looking forward to leaving them.

My plan was to go with DirecTV and get the HR34 with a 2nd HD tuner using AAA for a $200 discount (I wish Dish had that offer). I liked the 5 tuners and also like the Nomad box since I have a lake house with no TV or internet access. I thought that would be a good way to be able to bring some shows with me. I also liked the idea of only one dish on the roof (I had 2 when I was with Dish). I didn't like the idea that their EHD solution was to disable the internal hard drive. That makes no sense to me. I also didn't like the idea that the 2nd HD tuner could only pause live TV by recording it.

Then I looked at the forums and CES was here and I see the Hopper and Joey. I like the Prime Time Anytime feature as well as the way an EHD works. For us, having the 3 tuners will work fine. I have an OTA antenna that I used with my 722 but with PTA I don't see where I will really need that.

I will have been away from Dish for over 7 months when my house is done and I think I am leaning going back to Dish. I guess one factor to make me decide what to do will be if I am considered a new customer when it's time to sign up.


----------



## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

First, if you are _sure_ you are getting the programming you want and the receivers you want and can save $400 over two years, and that is important, then I fully understand switching to Direct TV at least for the two years.

Mdavej hit it on the nail. If I could save $400 I would not switch, they do not have several channels in HD (and a couple not at all) that I happen to watch. The recent Blockbuster package for $10 gets a ton of use from us both the many channels included and the free Blu-Ray rentals. The NFLZ with other sports channels for $7 fits exactly my level of interest in the NFL beyond the games I get on the networks. That isn't available with Direct TV unless you get the whole NFL package. There are other major differences for me, but my point is switching really depends your individual needs. My Brother-In-Law switched to Direct TV and really liked it. Unfortunately he didn't tell his wife about the channels she would lose in HD and they switched back. But in your case, if you have done your homework and know what you are getting, I see no reason not to switch.

One last thing, Dish has a long standing policy of not matching any promotion another provider is giving, and for good reason. Most everyone got a promotion when they signed with Dish. Dish can't keep doing that everytime someone is out of contract and threatens to leave. I feel I got some great promotions this year, including the free Starz and again, got good use of that. Amounted to $196 of free programming. Dish pricing is already less in most instances than Direct TV with more HD channels that I watch. (many receivers in the home favor Direct for pricing) and they know that so they probably feel they do not need to give someone any incentives that come close to what a new subscriber gets with a new provider.


----------



## Lazy Senior (Jan 24, 2005)

tampa8 said:


> they probably feel they do not need to give someone any incentives that come close to what a new subscriber gets with a new provider.


Here is the way I feel about it. I already have Dish equipment installed. MY 2 year contract is almost up. Dish could give me the current promo, along with the 3 month Free Premium channels they are giving New Customers. They do not have to pay for a new install or new equipment. I already have that. I would sign a new 2 year contract. Dish comes out great, they have me for 2 more years and I was cheaper to get than a new customer since I did not need an install/equipment. I also am happy, I have discounted programming for a year and the free premiums for 3 months. But - - they do not value current customers.

Instead I have to switch (again) to DTV, getting a free new install and equipment and discounted programming for 1 year and free 3 months of premium channels. DTV is happy, they got me (again) for 2 years. I am happy as I have got all the promos plus brand new equipment.

Who is the loser now? Dish. They lost me as a customer (again) because they value New customers more than current ones.

In 2 years I play the game all over again. Not once have I been refused service or promos because I had been a previous customer. 3 different times as a DTV customer and 2 different times as a Dish customer. Dish and DTV do not care.

Actually I like and prefer Dish. They have more HD channels and slightly (very slightly) cheaper prices. I also believe Dish has much better customer service. DTV has a little better picture quality on HD, Dish has the edge on SD.

In the end it all comes down to saving money. Getting a promo can result in *considerable savings* over a 2 year contract.


----------



## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

Lazy Senior said:


> Instead I have to switch (again) to DTV,
> Who is the loser now?
> In 2 years I play the game all over again.
> Actually I like and prefer Dish. They have more HD channels and slightly (very slightly) cheaper prices. I also believe Dish has much better customer service. DTV has a little better picture quality on HD, Dish has the edge on SD.
> ...


I say you are the loser in this. (Not calling you a loser lol) You like Dish better overall, you have to go through this every couple of years. When you make it all about the money we are on completely different playing fields. As I said, I am not willing to give up channels I watch in HD plus other things Dish only has for $200 a year, plus be under contract again, and not be eligible for free upgrades for two years, and of course the process of changing providers every two years. I got that $200 with Starz this year, the 1 Cent Cinemax last couple of years, and most likely will get at least some of that through other subscriber promo's this year which they always have.
That doesn't make you wrong, just we view it completely differently. What you are asking Dish (or Direct) to is constantly give you a steeply discounted programming, every two years. To me that is very unrealistic and no way for Dish to run a business. I am actually surprised Dish gave you a new customer discount when you returned to them usually you have to put the account into a different name.


----------



## Lazy Senior (Jan 24, 2005)

tampa8 said:


> I say you are the loser in this.
> 
> What you are asking Dish (or Direct) to is constantly give you a steeply discounted programming, every two years.


I ask for nothing. Dish and DTV give willingly, it is called *competition*. They want my money, I want the best possible TV deal/service for my $$. I spend almost $100 a month on satellite TV. It has come to the point where it is no longer worth the $$$. I have Netflix streaming and Amazon streaming video. Both are much better than the Dish streaming. I also have an OTA antenna. I am just about to the point where I say that I do not need to spend $1200 a year on satellite TV viewing.

If this is losing, I am good with it.


----------



## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

Lazy Senior said:


> I ask for nothing. Dish and DTV give willingly, it is called *competition*. They want my money, I want the best possible TV deal/service for my $$. I spend almost $100 a month on satellite TV. It has come to the point where it is no longer worth the $$$. I have Netflix streaming and Amazon streaming video. Both are much better than the Dish streaming. I also have an OTA antenna. I am just about to the point where I say that I do not need to spend $1200 a year on satellite TV viewing.
> 
> If this is losing, I am good with it.


That's fine but you never mentioned any of that in your posts, you are introducing a different argument. 
I stand by you want a steeply discounted promotion every two years. Those promotions are for new subscribers, really meant as a one time thing. You want it every two years or you will leave.


----------



## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

We as consumers don't make the rules D* and E* have set up. We didn't have any direct input into making them. If we as consumers then follow those rules and ensure that the choice we make is to our benefit within those rules we had no part in making, then all is good.

That said, I have no problem with those that are of the 'loyal customer' group. If they feel that it is best to be 'loyal' to a business that does not define 'loyal' the same way people do, good for them.

In the meantime, some of us will do what we think is in our best interest. I assure you that both D* and E* have tons of people all watching out for the best corporate interest, they don't need your help doing that. And their corporate interests may not be, and most often are not, in your best interest.


----------



## Tiny (Feb 1, 2009)

I had dish then tried direct tv now Im back with Dish, both services r fine but if money is no object direct may fit ur needs but I like Dish better for the ability to fit the service to my pocket book. One plus is while surfing channels Dish is faster when clicking from channel to channel but I dont understand while when I was with Direct I got HBO through HDMI but with Dish its HDCP blocks the signal on HDMI outputs? SO why is this????? I switched back to Dish In december 2011.


----------



## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

mdavej said:


> Coming from DirecTV, Dish had a lot more HD content and lower prices in the long run. I too wish they would reward loyal customers like new ones. But that's how everybody works, like it or not. Sure you can switch every 2 years and save some money. But content trumps most everything else for me. I could never go back to all those SD channels I was stuck with at DirecTV, no matter how many tuners their new box has. Dish's new Hopper will add everything I've been missing from DirecTV and then some. Primetime Anytime, 3 tuners and 2TB is better than 5 tuners and only 1TB in my case. And I'll finally get real MRV and HD in every room, and an HD UI, something even the new HR34 still lacks. And the Hopper is blazing fast compared to the HR34. So until DirecTV adds some significant basic HD content, I'll be sticking with Dish for the foreseeable future.


As I said in my previous post,more basic channels in HD,that's what is keeping me staying with DISH.I would like a Hopper because if DISH comes out with a USB Dual Tuner Box for the Hopper that would give me 5 tuners compared to the 722k/wMT2's 4 tuners,so hopefully DISH will do this.But being on a fixed income I imagine I won't be able to afford it(if there's a upgrade fee).


----------



## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

Tiny said:


> I had dish then tried direct tv now Im back with Dish, both services r fine but if money is no object direct may fit ur needs but I like Dish better for the ability to fit the service to my pocket book. One plus is while surfing channels Dish is faster when clicking from channel to channel but I dont understand while when I was with Direct I got HBO through HDMI but with Dish its HDCP blocks the signal on HDMI outputs? SO why is this????? I switched back to Dish In december 2011.


HDCP is a protection measure being used by HBO and I'm sure others will follow,you can read about it here:

http://www.digitalconnection.com/faq/HDTV_12.asp


----------



## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

lparsons21 said:


> We as consumers don't make the rules D* and E* have set up. We didn't have any direct input into making them. If we as consumers then follow those rules and ensure that the choice we make is to our benefit within those rules we had no part in making, then all is good.


I agreed with that in my posts. If money is the bottom line then switch every two years. That's not the basis of my replies. 
Following your thought, the poster wants something not in the rules and can't understand why he can't get it. The promotions are for new customers. How could any of the providers keep giving you those discounts forever? He wants what a new customer gets everytime his contract is up. It's more profitable to let him go then to keep him with those demands, it's that simple. If Dish (Or Direct) did that, would he be willing to pay for new receivers when wanted instead of it being free? Pay for HD instead of it being free? Pay for service if a new dish is needed for programming? (Usually free for existing subscribers with Dish) Or not get any of the subscriber promotions through the years? And I know from being on this and other forums for years Dish does not normally give you a new customer promotion using your name/SS# if you subscribed before, every two years. I don't know about Direct.

The Roku/Amazon/Netflix argument is a totally different one. If you can get the programming you want without Satellite or Cable, that works. (Well except maybe for internet data caps, but that's another thread...)


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

I don't see how the providers can afford to give the discounts to new subscribers. I suppose they do it in the hope that they stick around long past their commitments into a period where they can make money off of them. At some point I expect the discounts will be lowered (or the discounted price will be raised) to a point where new customer deals are not much of a loss.

A few years ago DISH's new customer deals were not very good. When I first subscribed I basically got free equipment via a bill credit that covered the cost of the equipment spread out over time. There was no commitment, but if I had cancelled I would not have received all of the credits to pay for the equipment. There were specials such as the free HBO or Showtime (or both) for 3 months which are good teasers to get people to continue to subscribe to those premium services but no $10 off for a year or $20 off for six months in addition to free equipment (now leased) and installs.

DISH's approach was "simply the lowest price". No gimmicks. I wish they would go back to that but I suppose they would have lost customers to the other companies (including cable) that constantly offer new customer discounts. If DISH would go back to "simply the lowest price" it would break the cycle of going back and forth between providers ... or it could just kick DISH out of the cycle as they watch their former customers go back and forth between their competition's new customer deals.

I wonder if DISH could go back to "simply the lowest price" and offer a regular price that would beat the discounted deals (or come close). But I expect people would still want the discounts.


----------



## klang (Oct 14, 2003)

How much is it worth to not have to train the wife to use a new system every two years? :grin:

I'm not changing anytime soon.


----------



## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

tampa8 said:


> I agreed with that in my posts. If money is the bottom line then switch every two years. That's not the basis of my replies.
> Following your thought, the poster wants something not in the rules and can't understand why he can't get it. The promotions are for new customers. How could any of the providers keep giving you those discounts forever? He wants what a new customer gets everytime his contract is up. It's more profitable to let him go then to keep him with those demands, it's that simple. If Dish (Or Direct) did that, would he be willing to pay for new receivers when wanted instead of it being free? Pay for HD instead of it being free? Pay for service if a new dish is needed for programming? (Usually free for existing subscribers with Dish) Or not get any of the subscriber promotions through the years? And I know from being on this and other forums for years Dish does not normally give you a new customer promotion using your name/SS# if you subscribed before, every two years. I don't know about Direct.
> 
> The Roku/Amazon/Netflix argument is a totally different one. If you can get the programming you want without Satellite or Cable, that works. (Well except maybe for internet data caps, but that's another thread...)


Actually Dish is easier with returning customers than D*. D* wants you gone 2 years, although they will do some things for a shorter time, but nothing near what a new customer gets. At the 2 year mark, even though they don't call you a new customer, you get the same and sometimes better deal than a new one.

With Dish it is 3 months after leaving from all reports I've read. Then the deal is the same as a new customer, again not calling it that.

While I don't disagree with those that think no deal or minimal deals should be offered for a returning customer, that is D* and E*'s choice to do it the way they do.

Personally I think a better approach from both would be some sort of discount structure based on continuous years with them. That way you get something and you know what that something is. But both D* and E* will dicker on the phone for various things, like package discounts, premium deals, 'free for awhile' deals and so forth. Those are nice and I'm sure they help in retention, but they mostly depend on word of mouth here and other places, or a call to the CSR with that mixed bag of responses we see all the time. It is that uncertainty that makes swapping oft times look better than it might be.

When I came back to D*, I got 2 HDDVRs and all the other new customer deals. I'll save a few bucks the first year and then nothing officially after that, although I'm sure when I'm forced to call to cancel a premium as I do a few times a year, they will offer something. They always do!


----------



## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

klang said:


> How much is it worth to not have to train the wife to use a new system every two years? :grin:
> 
> I'm not changing anytime soon.


So we can add that to the list of 'why I'm not married' ?? 

But I understand. Before my wife passed away, it was not good to do things that upset her.


----------



## clotter (Apr 12, 2008)

klang said:


> How much is it worth to not have to train the wife to use a new system every two years? :grin:
> 
> I'm not changing anytime soon.


I did not think of that, but I SHOULD HAVE. So true.

I had many years with Direct and the first DVR was a Tivo unit. Then there was the mandatory switch to the HR series & had that for several years. Now two years with Dish. The wife STILL tells me she wants her Tivo back and does not REALLY know how to operate the Dish DVR.


----------



## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

klang said:


> How much is it worth to not have to train the wife to use a new system every two years? :grin:
> 
> I'm not changing anytime soon.


Worth really big bucks not to have to train and listen to the complaints!



mike01001 said:


> Free HD for life number one. Ability to attach a hard drive to the 211k and not have to pay for a DVR. Directv programming packages are better, but there is so much crap on tv I could not justfy the expense of their programming anymore. I was able to add the hockey package with the money I saved. Also during football season the Redzone channel is gold, and is far better than having to pay for Sunday Ticket at Directv for $350. I'm not saying I would never switch back, but until my two year contract is up, I'll be satisfied.


I can't say either providers packages are better as it depends on whether you want more National HD or want more sports.

As far as equipment the HR34 or the Hopper both look good with the Hopper looking better. Being able to record 6 things at once from satellite 4 Networks at once Plus 2 other satellite channels and never having to look at the TV shows forum here and hear how I missed the premiere of a network show that sounds interesting. Neat that they can do that with 3 physical tuners. Six virtual tuners from three physical.

I wonder if DirecTV i snow planning a HR35 that can add that feature or if the current processors can not handle it.

Right now I look at the locals for a week ahead and then decide what to record and sometimes something doesn't sound interesting so not recorded and then I find out it might be good.

Comes the new fall season every year one box all 4 networks Plus two other channels. Big win.


----------



## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

clotter said:


> I did not think of that, but I SHOULD HAVE. So true.
> 
> I had many years with Direct and the first DVR was a Tivo unit. Then there was the mandatory switch to the HR series & had that for several years. Now two years with Dish. The wife STILL tells me she wants her Tivo back and does not REALLY know how to operate the Dish DVR.


You could look into the new DirecTivo they've come out with I guess.


----------



## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

James Long said:


> I wonder if DISH could go back to "simply the lowest price" and offer a regular price that would beat the discounted deals (or come close). But I expect people would still want the discounts.


Something to think about, I agree. Could they drop the everyday cost by not giving the promotions. As you speculate, would it result in people still looking for the discounts?


----------



## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

All I know is when some call DISH to ask for the best deal the CSR hits them with an upgrade fee price.Now alot of us here know to not accept the first offer and think that's all there is,with DirecTV they have the Retention Dept,and with DISH it's the Loyalty Dept.Now I do not know if DIRT can offer the exact same deal as the Loyalty Dept..

I do know talking with DISH's Loyalty Dept. worked for me for what I wanted.

But in another sense remember every offer pertains to how long you have been with the company,what package you have been subscribed to,and how long it has it been since you received and accepted a special offer.

I have never heard of yet where some existing subscriber has gotten the new customer deals.Sorry, for that offer you will need to switch providers.

Oh and after you switch? No whining!!.


----------



## ASAOG (Oct 7, 2008)

I was a 20 yr DTV subscriber. Had no problems with programming and PQ on DTV. Decided to switch after the following:

1. numerous software updates and receiver swaps failed to provide a DVR that functioned reasonably fast without extremely slow channel surfing.

2. (nail in the coffin) After paying an additional 'maintenance' fee for years in case I had major hardware problems, I had to replace my roof after a bad hail storm. DTV refused to send a tech to realign my dish which had to be removed during the roof replacement. May seem minor but this was the straw breaking the DTV back. This combined with being overly patient for hardware improvements led me to Dish. I have had Dish over a year and I have no regrets. 

I have a sling loaded 922 which I really like. I use the DRA feature a lot and it works well. I also have an external 2TB hard drive connected to a 211. Also a great feature which works great. Dish also had some additional HD programming which was not available at the time on DTV (i.e. AMC HD etc.). IMHO, PQ appears equal for both DTV and Dish regardless of advertisements saying otherwise. 

I only wish DTV had solved their hardware problems sooner. Anxious to learn more about the new Dish hardware offerings.


----------



## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

ASAOG said:


> I was a 20 yr DTV subscriber. Had no problems with programming and PQ on DTV. Decided to switch after the following:
> 
> 1. numerous software updates and receiver swaps failed to provide a DVR that functioned reasonably fast without extremely slow channel surfing.
> 
> ...


DirecTV flat out refused to mount the dish on the new roof or just refused to do it for free?

I had to get dishnetwork out after a reroof on the parents house. I handled it from work for them. My Brother provided the onsite presence if needed.

I called up after lunch, was told they had a slot open that afternoon. The Dish was aligned by 5:30Pm same day I called and mom was watching Jepordy & Wheel that evening at 7Pm.

Cost $50 which I paid as it wasn't a failure despite that account having the dish protection plan (Or whatever they call it)

I still felt that was good service that the same day the roof finished being replaced they had TV again.

YMMV of course.


----------



## Guardian (Oct 30, 2009)

CCarncross said:


> I think the companies should start doing a better job job of tracking the people that jump back and forth between providers due to promotions. The constant churn raises the prices for everyone. If the companies just started saying no to someone that leaves after 2 years then comes back as soon as they are eligible for all the promo offers, they would see that these are not the valued customers they are looking for.


+1


----------



## Lazy Senior (Jan 24, 2005)

tampa8 said:


> Following your thought, the poster wants something not in the rules and can't understand why he can't get it. The promotions are for new customers.
> 
> And I know from being on this and other forums for years Dish does not normally give you a new customer promotion using your name/SS# if you subscribed before, every two years. I don't know about Direct.


What is not in the rules???? What are you talking about? I just told you I have had DTV 3 different times and Dish 2 different times. I got promos ALL 5 times. I used my real name and address and I have not tried to hide the fact I had been a previous customer. In fact I tell them up front that I have had their service before. They do not care, I get the promos with absolutely NO problem. Being told something on a forum means nothing. It is not fact. Do not believe everything on the Internet.

I have not been with DTV for 2 years. EVERY month since I left them, they send me an advertisement thru snail mail begging me to come back. They offer the same promos as they give the so called new customers. In one offer they said they would pay up to $200 of my ETF. Does this sound like they are not going to give me new customer promos?? DTV wants me back and are more than willing to take me back as a new customer.

I can get the new customer promos. I do not lie, cheat, commit fraud or break any rules I am aware of.

Remember I have already done it FIVE times..


----------



## Lazy Senior (Jan 24, 2005)

klang said:


> How much is it worth to not have to train the wife to use a new system every two years? :grin:


Google Logitech Harmony Remote and you will understand why I do not worry about "training the wife" on a new system/remote... :lol:


----------



## Lazy Senior (Jan 24, 2005)

lparsons21 said:


> Actually Dish is easier with returning customers than D*. D* wants you gone 2 years, although they will do some things for a shorter time, but nothing near what a new customer gets. At the 2 year mark, even though they don't call you a new customer, you get the same and sometimes better deal than a new one.


I have always been gone for at least 2 years. Both companies have treated me as a "new customer" even tho I had previous service(s) with them.

I have never had problems getting a new customer promo. Both companies know that I pay my bill on time and except for churning, I am a good customer at $100 a month. They probably put me on their "preferred new customer list". :lol:


----------



## ASAOG (Oct 7, 2008)

Roofers replaced the dish, but alignment was out. I was told since roofers removed and replaced the dish, it was not covered. If a strong gust of wind had knocked it out of whack, it probably would have been covered. After 20 yrs with DTV, I guess I may have expected more. I guess I expected too much from their customer loyalty.


----------



## Lazy Senior (Jan 24, 2005)

Tiny said:


> I dont understand while when I was with Direct I got HBO through HDMI but with Dish its HDCP blocks the signal on HDMI outputs? SO why is this?????


The problem is probably your TV and the way it is handling HDMI.

I have Dish, HBO and use HDMI on 2 different Dish HD DVRs and TVs without any problem. On my main TV the HDMI goes thru a home theater receiver and then to the TV.


----------



## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

Lazy Senior said:


> What is not in the rules???? What are you talking about? I just told you I have had DTV 3 different times and Dish 2 different times. I got promos ALL 5 times. I used my real name and address and I have not tried to hide the fact I had been a previous customer. In fact I tell them up front that I have had their service before. They do not care, I get the promos with absolutely NO problem. Being told something on a forum means nothing. It is not fact. Do not believe everything on the Internet.
> 
> I have not been with DTV for 2 years. EVERY month since I left them, they send me an advertisement thru snail mail begging me to come back. They offer the same promos as they give the so called new customers. In one offer they said they would pay up to $200 of my ETF. Does this sound like they are not going to give me new customer promos?? DTV wants me back and are more than willing to take me back as a new customer.
> 
> ...


Please read my posts carefully. I was very clear. Switching if that is what you want to do is fine. What you want, the new subscriber promotions every two years is not part of the rules. I was using the analogy/terminology of the poster. In no post did I say you were doing something wrong, I said the opposite. 
I did get an email from an installer from the other site, who reads posts here, who agrees Dish does not usually allow someone a new subscriber promotion coming back in two years. If you are getting it, I believe you, but many will not. He said an exception at times is someone who still has the correct Dish installed, and owns their receiver. He has seen those people come back and get a discount, though not necessarily the new subscriber discount.

And not aimed at you per se, but I think Dish would do well to stop the practice of giving a discount to a returning customer after only two years if they do it for some.


----------



## Lazy Senior (Jan 24, 2005)

tampa8 said:


> And not aimed at you per se, but I think Dish would do well to stop the practice of giving a discount to a returning customer after only two years if they do it for some.


The first time I was with Dish was around 2004-2006. I left them and went back to DTV for the 3rd time. When my 2 year contract ended with DTV, I got them to upgrade me to all HD. Which made me recommit for another 2 years. So I was with DTV 4 years and then went back to Dish in 2010. When/If I go back to DTV in March, it will be for the 4th different time. I was one of the the original subs for Directv in the mid 90's when they first started.

There seems to be a misconception that DTV/Dish loses money if the sub does not stay longer than the 2 years. This is not the case. They could not stay in business long with a model like that. These companies make $$$ on *everyone*. Yes, they do make less profit on someone like me who does not care where the programming comes from and is more interested in his costs vs DTV/DISH costs. 

I look at it like buying a new or used car. Some people are happy to pay full price. Others will just take a couple thousand $ discount and be happy. Other hardcore customers do their homework and pay bottom dollar.

They all get the same car but the hardcore customers ends up with a lot more cash in his pocket... :lol:


----------



## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

Lazy Senior said:


> They all get the same car but the hardcore customers ends up with a lot more cash in his pocket... :lol:


I can't disagree with that!


----------



## MadScientist (Dec 1, 2004)

I agree! This is something they should do! 



Personally I think a better approach from both would be some sort of discount structure based on continuous years with them. That way you get something and you know what that something is. But both D* and E* will dicker on the phone for various things, like package discounts, premium deals, 'free for awhile' deals and so forth. Those are nice and I'm sure they help in retention, but they mostly depend on word of mouth here and other places, or a call to the CSR with that mixed bag of responses we see all the time. It is that uncertainty that makes swapping oft times look better than it might be.


----------



## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

mdavej said:


> Coming from DirecTV, Dish had a lot more HD content and lower prices in the long run. I too wish they would reward loyal customers like new ones. But that's how everybody works, like it or not. Sure you can switch every 2 years and save some money. But content trumps most everything else for me. I could never go back to all those SD channels I was stuck with at DirecTV, no matter how many tuners their new box has. Dish's new Hopper will add everything I've been missing from DirecTV and then some. Primetime Anytime, 3 tuners and 2TB is better than 5 tuners and only 1TB in my case. And I'll finally get real MRV and HD in every room, and an HD UI, something even the new HR34 still lacks. And the Hopper is blazing fast compared to the HR34. So until DirecTV adds some significant basic HD content, I'll be sticking with Dish for the foreseeable future.


How do you know so much about Hopper and Joey?


----------



## Slamminc11 (Jan 28, 2005)

Laxguy said:


> How do you know so much about Hopper and Joey?


he didn't say anything that isn't public knowledge. Discussions on the hopper have been out since before CES and over at satguys there is even a video showing how the thing works from the Dish booth.


----------



## Lazy Senior (Jan 24, 2005)

FWIW:

For all those that think they can not get new promos when you have been a previous customer, here is a chat dialog I just had with Directv on their promo website.

..............................................................................................
You: *I used to be a Directv customer and 2 years ago switched to Dish. I like Directv better, Can I can come back as a new Directv customer?*
James: We appreciate you considering DIRECTV, the #1 satellite provider, for your household.
James: I would be happy to assist you with our products and services.
James: Sure, you can get new service.
You: *Are the new customer promos valid for me since I was a previous customer 2 years ago?*
James: You can avail new promotions.
James: Is there a particular package you have in mind?
........................................................................................................

I can save quite a bit of money switching back to Directv, Also I get brand new equipment of my choosing. If I switch it will be the 4th different time I have gotten new customer promos from Directv.......

I do plan on letting Dish have a crack at a new 2 year contract with me. I doubt they can/will save me as much $$$ over a Directv new customer promo contract.

It* is* all about money, *my money*....


----------



## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

I am in awe.


----------



## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Slamminc11 said:


> he didn't say anything that isn't public knowledge. Discussions on the hopper have been out since before CES and over at satguys there is even a video showing how the thing works from the Dish booth.


I am asking about the speed comparisons. Are you asserting his info comes from videos? Or 'discusssions'? I was hoping for something concrete.


----------



## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Lazy Senior said:


> FWIW:
> << Snipped bits out >>
> I can save quite a bit of money switching back to Directv, Also I get brand new equipment of my choosing. If I switch it will be the 4th different time I have gotten new customer promos from Directv.......
> 
> ...


Er, yes, so it seems. I've not seen such unabashed crowing over such selfish manipulation before here! (That was the awe part.)

You do understand that the costs you cause to all the rest of Dish and DIRECTV® customers is real, no?


----------



## inazsully (Oct 3, 2006)

To the folks that have made numerous switches between the two companies. Have you actually seen a difference in PQ favoring either company? My biggest deterrent to switching providers is that my external hard drive with Dish is via USB and Directv requires a eSATA connection making Directv incompatible with my existing EHD. Plus with a Directv/EHD combination you lose the DVR's internal hard drive capacity. Seems like a big and unnecessary waste of what should be available recording space.


----------



## Lazy Senior (Jan 24, 2005)

inazsully said:


> To the folks that have made numerous switches between the two companies. Have you actually seen a difference in PQ favoring either company?


2 years ago when I switched to Dish my contract with DTV had 2 weeks left. I ended up having both services for 2 weeks. I had read that DTV had better HD picture quality than Dish. I had also read about Dish having HD lite.

I made numerous comparisons between the 2 services on many different channels. This was done with a HDMI connection to a high end Samsung 46" LCD tv. Doing quick A/B tests I could see only a very slight advantage to DTV. Without doing the quick A/B tests I could not detect any difference. In other words in a blind test I could not tell whether I was watching Dish or DTV.

I also noticed that Dish has a better SD picture VS Directv SD.

IMO the superior HD PQ that DirectTV fans brag about is vastly exaggerated...


----------



## Lazy Senior (Jan 24, 2005)

Laxguy said:


> You do understand that the costs you cause to all the rest of Dish and DIRECTV® customers is real, no?


You need to understand that *I do not care* how much YOU have to pay for TV service. I care only about how much I have to pay!


----------



## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

inazsully said:


> To the folks that have made numerous switches between the two companies. Have you actually seen a difference in PQ favoring either company? My biggest deterrent to switching providers is that my external hard drive with Dish is via USB and Directv requires a eSATA connection making Directv incompatible with my existing EHD. Plus with a Directv/EHD combination you lose the DVR's internal hard drive capacity. Seems like a big and unnecessary waste of what should be available recording space.


Even if the connections were compatible, (and many HD cases are fitted with multiple ports) making a switch from either to the other would make you lose what's on the external. With DIRECTV® you cannot switch the external to a different DVR.

I do wish DIRECTV® would change its system to be more like that of Dish.


----------



## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Lazy Senior said:


> You need to understand that *I do not care* how much YOU have to pay for TV service. I care only about how much I have to pay!


Oh, I got that, all right. I still stand in amazement at how proud of your self-centered approach you are! I am in *awe*!


----------



## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

[email protected] Network said:


> We do value your business! I would like the opportunity to see if there is anything we can do to keep you as a customer. Please send me a PM with your phone or account number so I may review your account. Thank you!


I had U-verse twice but I cancelled because the nod was too far from my house. I'm very satisfied with Dish. Directv is too expensive for us. However we would like QVC in HD.


----------



## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

Greg.E said:


> I was with Dish for many years. When HD free for life came out I didn't go for it and sign a 2 year contract because I knew down the road that I would be building a house and having to move to a rental for a while. When the time came to go to my rental, I cancelled Dish and went with our local cable company. I absolutely hate it and I am looking forward to leaving them.
> 
> My plan was to go with DirecTV and get the HR34 with a 2nd HD tuner using AAA for a $200 discount (I wish Dish had that offer). I liked the 5 tuners and also like the Nomad box since I have a lake house with no TV or internet access. I thought that would be a good way to be able to bring some shows with me. I also liked the idea of only one dish on the roof (I had 2 when I was with Dish). I didn't like the idea that their EHD solution was to disable the internal hard drive. That makes no sense to me. I also didn't like the idea that the 2nd HD tuner could only pause live TV by recording it.
> 
> ...


I*have a Dish 500 plus which gets everything, even international channels.


----------



## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

Lazy Senior said:


> You need to understand that *I do not care* how much YOU have to pay for TV service. I care only about how much I have to pay!


Well now you've done it, you are forcing me to agree with you 

If the providers are going to allow it, and money is the most important thing for your TV watching, I don't think it is fair to blame you if our costs are higher because of it. I think they may be higher, but it is up to the providers to change the way they do pricing/promotions. Using your example of the car dealership, it is very likely for everytime someone who goes in with the no nonsense policy of buying a car and knows most of the costs involved, the dealership makes that up on someone who doesn't know.


----------



## Kevin F (May 9, 2010)

I think that the cost the broadcasters demand for channels influences our end price more than customers switching back and fourth between providers does.

Just my $0.02
Kevin


----------



## VDP07 (Feb 22, 2006)

Paul Secic said:


> I*have a Dish 500 plus which gets everything, even international channels.


Do you have a wing dish as well Paul, or do you actually have a 1000 plus dish?


----------



## Slamminc11 (Jan 28, 2005)

Laxguy said:


> I am asking about the speed comparisons. Are you asserting his info comes from videos? Or 'discusssions'? I was hoping for something concrete.


----------



## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Slamminc11 said:


>


Really? I want something reasonably definitive, not some promo from the floor of CES. 
But thank you for the link.


----------



## Inkosaurus (Jul 29, 2011)

Lazy Senior said:


> Here is the way I feel about it. I already have Dish equipment installed. MY 2 year contract is almost up. Dish could give me the current promo, along with the 3 month Free Premium channels they are giving New Customers. They do not have to pay for a new install or new equipment. I already have that. I would sign a new 2 year contract. Dish comes out great, they have me for 2 more years and I was cheaper to get than a new customer since I did not need an install/equipment. I also am happy, I have discounted programming for a year and the free premiums for 3 months. But - - they do not value current customers.
> 
> Instead I have to switch (again) to DTV, getting a free new install and equipment and discounted programming for 1 year and free 3 months of premium channels. DTV is happy, they got me (again) for 2 years. I am happy as I have got all the promos plus brand new equipment.
> 
> ...


Former dish employee here (I quit due to personal issues with the family, so im still a big fan of them , not disgruntled or anything ).
What your missing is that at the 2 year mark, you are still paying off the investment dish made in you as a customer (aka SAQ, subscriber acquisition cost).
With the way Dish routes there money it takes an average DHA24(digital home advantage) customer 4 years to pay off there SAQ.

So why would dish invest more money in you to give you some promotions, when there already in most cases cheaper then the competition and you still havent paid off your initial acquisition?

Thats why they dont do it and thats why you will always hear this line when you ask for it as an existing customer
"Im really glad to see you have been with us for so long, but im sorry we cant give you that offer again as you have already received it or the comparable offer when you first signed up for Dish!"

The best you can probably hope for is 10$ off for 6-12 months if you get in contact with loyalty department. Or the possibility to renew your contract for another receiver.


----------



## Lazy Senior (Jan 24, 2005)

Inkosaurus said:


> So why would dish invest more money in you to give you some promotions, when there already in most cases cheaper then the competition and you still havent paid off your initial acquisition?
> 
> So why would dish invest more money in you
> 
> Thats why they dont do it


Instead they would rather lose a 2 year customer with *equipment already installed *? And give huge discounted promotions to a new customer where they have to install new equipment. Yep, makes sense to me, that is why I churn every chance I get.

Explain to me how it is cheaper to get a new customer vs keeping a current customer that does not need any installation? Why invest much more money in an unknown new customer when they could invest less money to keep a "known, pay your bills on time $100 a month customer" from churning????

It seems to me they got it all backwards.
IMO Dish and Directv should treat current longtime *out of contract *customers better than new ones.. They should give the big discounts to loyal customers, and less for new customers.


----------



## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Thank heavens most Dish and DIRECTV® customers do not operate that way; otherwise our monthly bills would really be through the roof. Bigger than the receiver costs are the truck rolls, some taking many hours to complete.


----------



## inazsully (Oct 3, 2006)

Laxguy said:


> Thank heavens most Dish and DIRECTV® customers do not operate that way; otherwise our monthly bills would really be through the roof. Bigger than the receiver costs are the truck rolls, some taking many hours to complete.


It doesn't matter if you agree with his methodology on a moral basis. The fact is, he is 100% correct. It would be less costly to retain an existing customer with a proven pay record and requiring no new start up cost or equipment outlay. The only thing Dish should care about is getting another 2 year commitment. Actually, they should give him a DVR up grade if he wants it. It's not a matter of loyalty if they are offering new customers incentives and taking existing customers for granted. You say, "thank goodness most "D" and "E" customers don't act that way". That's exactly how "D" and "E" are begging their competitions customers to act. Jump ship for a $$$ savings.


----------



## archer75 (Oct 13, 2006)

Dish is cheaper than the rest. They are cheaper than direct and comcast. Fios may be a wee bit cheaper but their DVR's suck.

Direct is about $5 cheaper per month in the first year over the closest package on Dish that I have. The 2nd year direct is more expensive and the 3rd year and after on direct my bill would be $30 higher than it is now for the same channels. 

I see no reason to switch to direct.


----------



## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

VDP07 said:


> Do you have a wing dish as well Paul, or do you actually have a 1000 plus dish?


I just have one dish. Our next door neighbors have Dish and have five dishes.


----------



## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Dish pays to get a new customer in hope that customer will stay and be profitable for years to come. If you leave after two years, Dish has not yet made back their initial investment in you so why should they pay again to keep you?

A two year customer has to stay or pay... You can leave any time after the commitment is done.

If we all paid full price for install and receiver purchases then you would have a point on existing customers being worth incentives... But customers willing to churn for the best offer will churn again next time... So why chase a customer who will come back anyway?


----------



## ubankit (Jan 7, 2005)

Laxguy said:


> Er, yes, so it seems. I've not seen such unabashed crowing over such selfish manipulation before here! (That was the awe part.)
> 
> You do understand that the costs you cause to all the rest of Dish and DIRECTV® customers is real, no?


What manipulation? The sub has completed the contract term, he has no obligation to continue and I don't for a second believe it drives the cost up for any other subs, if that were the case the contract term would be long enough for the company to recoup their investment. Meanwhile, in the real world, I'm much more concerned about the drivers without auto insurance & licenses because they sure drive my insurance costs up (along with the deadbeats, shoplifters, politicians, etc)


----------



## Lazy Senior (Jan 24, 2005)

inazsully said:


> The fact is, he is 100% correct. It would be less costly to retain an existing customer with a proven pay record and requiring no new start up cost or equipment outlay. The only thing Dish should care about is getting another 2 year commitment.


EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!

I did not make the game or the rules. I just learned how to play the game to MY benefit.

Every 2 years before my cell phone contract runs out the cell company sends me offers of a New free latest n greatest cellphone, usually worth $400-500. Do they do this for customer loyalty or because I have been good customer? Of course not, they do it because they want me in another 2 year contract!!!!!


----------



## Lazy Senior (Jan 24, 2005)

ubankit said:


> I don't for a second believe it drives the cost up for any other subs,


I only hope that churning drives the CEO's bonus down a few million.. :lol::lol:


----------



## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

inazsully said:


> To the folks that have made numerous switches between the two companies. Have you actually seen a difference in PQ favoring either company? My biggest deterrent to switching providers is that my external hard drive with Dish is via USB and Directv requires a eSATA connection making Directv incompatible with my existing EHD. Plus with a Directv/EHD combination you lose the DVR's internal hard drive capacity. Seems like a big and unnecessary waste of what should be available recording space.


Not to mention you can not move the DirecTV EHD to another DVR and watch previously recorded content. When that DVR dies the content is history. With Dishnetwork as long as you keep the service the drive will work on any VIP series DVR. Making Archiving a possibility since timers and guide data are on the internal drive. Designate one drive Christmas, One Movies, One TV shows for example and one for Specials, One for Sports etc.

I've seen posts where Dishnetwork customers with a DVR that needs replacing are told that they can get a EHD and save their recordings.

I have a EHD for use with the DVR. It has USB and eSATA ports. If I switch services I can use it with either. However when I switch and use it with the other service the contents will be gone permanently. Different formatting on the drive itself.



Lazy Senior said:


> Google Logitech Harmony Remote and you will understand why I do not worry about "training the wife" on a new system/remote... :lol:


How does that help with the channel numbers being different?


----------



## Inkosaurus (Jul 29, 2011)

ubankit said:


> What manipulation? The sub has completed the contract term, he has no obligation to continue and I don't for a second believe it drives the cost up for any other subs, if that were the case the contract term would be long enough for the company to recoup their investment. Meanwhile, in the real world, I'm much more concerned about the drivers without auto insurance & licenses because they sure drive my insurance costs up (along with the deadbeats, shoplifters, politicians, etc)


Would you sign up for a contract with a television provider for 4 years despite there promotion only lasting 1 year?

"Maybe if there promotion lasts 2 years i might consider a 4 year contract"
In that case the SAQ pay off would be closer to 5 years, so that 4 year contract just turned into a 5 year contract.

They will never make a contract that is proportional to the actual SAQ because no one is interested in being obligated to stay with a company even for 1 year. Can you imagine the early termination fee on a 4 year contract when cancel 1 year in, or worse yet 1 month in (after the tech leaves and your installed the contract is active and even if your 1 minute in you pay full early term. fee)

@Lazy senior, i see what your getting at.
The initial install is a good chunk of change, that much is true. But its only half the story.

SAQ(according to dish) is arund the 800$ range, we've estimated here that at least 600$ of that is accurate in the past.
The majority of the SAQ for a new customer is actually the promotion think about it.
Lets say you have the americas top 250 that gets you 20$ off.

20x12= 240
Hbo/Max/starz( at 16*13*13 x 3)= 126
If you play your cards right you can get BBMP free for a year so thats 120$(10$ a month)
Protection plan is free 6 months so lets toss that in there.(6$ a month)=36$
This comes out to 522$ in promotional and discounted programming during a customers first year.

So ill ask again.

Why would a company want to reinvest in you as a customer when your still paying off your initial investment?
The answer is, they dont want to. And they have every right not to.

The TV industry is... how should i say it... Ridiculous.
Alot of people with false sense of entitlement expecting to get things they dont deserve.
So what your a paying customer. Good. Dish already offers stuff for good standing paying customers.
Its called Dishn'it up, aka the receiver upgrade promotion that those same phone companies offer you every other year. When you upgrade your phone do you get a 20$ off, and 2000 free pic and video messages or what ever? No?
Same applies to Dish and DTV. Theyll give you a new box if your worth it, but dont expect anything else with it unless you threaten to cancel.


----------



## VDP07 (Feb 22, 2006)

Paul Secic said:


> I just have one dish. Our next door neighbors have Dish and have five dishes.


If you are pulling signals from the 110, 118.7, 119 and 129 without a wing dish, you actually have a 1000+ dish setup. It's the same as the 500+ but with an additional DP single or dual lnbf attached that picks up the 129 sat.


----------



## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

Laxguy said:


> Really? I want something reasonably definitive, not some promo from the floor of CES.
> But thank you for the link.


Did you watch the video from the other Satellite site?
The speed looked good. 
I loved the concept of 8 days of the 4 major networks being recorded with no intervention from me. More than enough tuners with that feature. From 8 to eleven PM two free tuners is one more than I need.

I was thinking about the HR34 until I saw the feature set for the Hopper. 
I've been out of commitment for a while. 
Once the Hopper is available I suspect I'll be calling and saying what can you do for me?

It's about the features not the money for me. 
Right now I have to go through the 8Pm to 11Pm and look for new shows and decide do I want to record them. The Hopper would make that unnecessary.

3 tuners most of the time and 6 between 8PM and 11Pm more than enough for me. Yes I know it really isn't 6 tuners but it does the work of 6.

Remote locator will be a life saver for one user in the house.

Being able to pull things off of my Western Digital Live Hub, Big plus. And since he mentioned using the WD as a NAS, It is BTW, I suspect pull off of any NAS on the network?

The group all Music channels into one line in the guide, Great idea! Same with all the public interest channels! Great Ideas. I wonder how long before DirecTV copies those?

You gotta love innovation. Each provider pushing the others.


----------



## GiantFan (Oct 31, 2006)

I switched after being with Directv for more than 10 years - mostly because I live in the Pacific NW and could not get an install to enable HDTV. I tried for at least 3 different times, and different installers, but no one could make it work with my trees and LOS issues. When I called Dish, I explained the problem, and was told no cost if they could not implement. So, they came out - and installed 3 dishes that combine to get me the HDTV signals. I realize that this would not work for everyone, but they are all on the back of my house and cannot be seen from the road. I now have HDTV and a smaller bill. I don't have Sunday Ticket, but that is about all that I miss at this point.


----------



## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

TBoneit said:


> Not to mention you can not move the DirecTV EHD to another DVR and watch previously recorded content. When that DVR dies the content is history. With Dishnetwork as long as you keep the service the drive will work on any VIP series DVR. Making Archiving a possibility since timers and guide data are on the internal drive. Designate one drive Christmas, One Movies, One TV shows for example and one for Specials, One for Sports etc.
> 
> I've seen posts where Dishnetwork customers with a DVR that needs replacing are told that they can get a EHD and save their recordings.
> 
> ...


With the Logitech Harmony remote you can setup 5 Favorites channels online,then you just hookup your remote to the USB cable and transfer those 5 channel numbers to the remote control,it's actually very easy to do.

I got the Logitech Harmony 300i(controls 4 devices) for $29.99+tax at Target.


----------



## inazsully (Oct 3, 2006)

So I'll answer your question.
Your question is, Why should a company invest in you as a customer when you are still paying off your initial investment?
If I as a customer leaves Dish after 2 years and go to Directv I will no longer be paying off my initial investment. The second 2 year investment in me will be easier for them to recoup because the second investment will not include equipment or the installation of equipment. For comparisons purposes lets say the company's initial investment in me was $500 and I paid it off at $200 a year. Since I still owe them $100 why would they not want to invest another $100 in me so that at the end of another 2 years I will have more than paid back the companies entire investment in me.


----------



## Lazy Senior (Jan 24, 2005)

TBoneit said:


> How does that help with the channel numbers being different?


Simple. I do not put channel numbers on the wife's remote. I use the station's icons on the Remote's LCD screen. To go to say the Lifetime channel She just pushs the button next to the Lifetime icon on the LCD screen. Channel numbers mean nothing to my wife. I have all of the channels she watches setup that way.

She needs to learn no channel numbers as the channel icons are all on her remote.

The Harmony Remotes are extremely versatile and useful devices, especially for everyday use by the clueless. Also they are very easy to program via computer. They have many different models. I have the color LCD model 650 which I got for $50 on sale of course.


----------



## Lazy Senior (Jan 24, 2005)

Inkosaurus said:


> dont expect anything else with it unless you threaten to cancel.


I have never threatened to cancel. I just get the other service installed and the day after installation I call and cancel the old service.

Before getting a new service, I do either call or email the present service and ask (nicely) about promos to retain me for another 2 years. I refuse to beg or threaten to cancel. The only thing worthwhile I ever got from this tactic was DTV installed entirely new equipment for me switching me over to HD from a SD setup. I ended up with them for another 2 years.

Really I do not care if the present service wants me or not for another 2 years. The other service has always welcomed me back with open arms with great discounted programming and brand new installation/equipment.

I have no preference which service provides me with TV service. *Whoever gives me the best deal for the next 2 years gets my business*. Call it capitalism, competition,*the American Way*, being cheap, pinching pennies, whatever..


----------



## Inkosaurus (Jul 29, 2011)

inazsully said:


> So I'll answer your question.
> Your question is, Why should a company invest in you as a customer when you are still paying off your initial investment?
> If I as a customer leaves Dish after 2 years and go to Directv I will no longer be paying off my initial investment. The second 2 year investment in me will be easier for them to recoup because the second investment will not include equipment or the installation of equipment. For comparisons purposes lets say the company's initial investment in me was $500 and I paid it off at $200 a year. Since I still owe them $100 why would they not want to invest another $100 in me so that at the end of another 2 years I will have more than paid back the companies entire investment in me.


Because chances are during those 2 years that you were with them you did something to increase your SAQ.
(ill use dish as an example)

For instance you could have got a Dish Mover done, in most cases its free of charge to the customer or 100$. In any case it still costs dish more then 100$ to move your service.

Or what if you wanted a new receiver? Wanted a mirror set up? Got programming free for another year? Got ppv coupons? Threatened to cancel and got 10$ off for a certain amount of time?
There are alot of things that can happen in any given year that increases the companies investment to keep you around (these things i listed also affect whether or not you even qualify for certain things as well).

But what it comes down to is, the company isnt a charity case. They cant just give out the farm.
They set you up with a 2 year contract despite it taking 4 years to pay off in hopes that you will be one of those 10 year customers that yields in pure profit.
If they kept giving stuff away they will never reach that point with any customer. Its a measured risk and investment, it does not always pan out. But it pans out often enough for them to make this a business model to seek profit.

I have no problem with you guys that jump back and forth because of price i absolutely get it. Saving money is a big deal and is a worthy reason to play the hop game.
Im just trying to answer your question as to why they dont re-offer the new customer deal to loyal existing customers.

@Lazy Senior, sorry i didnt mean to imply that you threaten to cancel and what not. I just meant that in most cases you cant expect a whole lot from a front line CSR in addition to getting a new receiver.


----------



## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

archer75 said:


> Dish is cheaper than the rest. They are cheaper than direct and comcast. Fios may be a wee bit cheaper but their DVR's suck.
> 
> Direct is about $5 cheaper per month in the first year over the closest package on Dish that I have. The 2nd year direct is more expensive and the 3rd year and after on direct my bill would be $30 higher than it is now for the same channels.
> 
> I see no reason to switch to direct.


Making blanket statements about a service being cheaper is always going to be incorrect. Dish would be insanely overpriced for my setup if they even allowed it to be done. It's all going to come down to equipment needs that will determine who's cheaper.



Inkosaurus said:


> Would you sign up for a contract with a television provider for 4 years despite there promotion only lasting 1 year?
> 
> "Maybe if there promotion lasts 2 years i might consider a 4 year contract"
> In that case the SAQ pay off would be closer to 5 years, so that 4 year contract just turned into a 5 year contract.
> ...


It's SAC (Subscriber Acquisition Cost)


----------



## Inkosaurus (Jul 29, 2011)

Oh wow haha, i have no idea how that got by me or what i was thinking lol.
Ehh oh well, im not gonna bother editing it i guess we can all laugh at that slip up together lol.


----------



## inazsully (Oct 3, 2006)

Inkosaurus said:


> Because chances are during those 2 years that you were with them you did something to increase your SAQ.
> (ill use dish as an example)
> 
> For instance you could have got a Dish Mover done, in most cases its free of charge to the customer or 100$. In any case it still costs dish more then 100$ to move your service.
> ...


Because chances are? That's a pretty bold and completely incorrect assumption. Besides, if they are willing to pay $100 to move me why wouldn't they consider signing me to another 2 year contract at least as cost effective? Remember, they would not just be offering the loyal customer the NEW CUSTOMER DEAL as you suggest, they would be requiring the loyal customer to sign a new 2 year contract, and not giving them any new equipment like they are to a new customer.


----------



## Inkosaurus (Jul 29, 2011)

inazsully said:


> Because chances are? That's a pretty bold and completely incorrect assumption. Besides, if they are willing to pay $100 to move me why wouldn't they consider signing me to another 2 year contract at least as cost effective? Remember, they would not just be offering the loyal customer the NEW CUSTOMER DEAL as you suggest, they would be requiring the loyal customer to sign a new 2 year contract, and not giving them any new equipment like they are to a new customer.


Because i worked at Dish and they do bi-weekly training to keep CSR's up to date, one of those training courses teaches you why they dont re-offer the new customer promos.

Disagree all you want but thats how they see it.


----------



## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

While not required, the inferred hope is that you will remain a full customer for many years after taking discounts, freebies, etc to get those first two years with a bonus incentive.

If Dish could predict the future and know you would bolt after two years, they would not bother to sign you up.


----------



## Lazy Senior (Jan 24, 2005)

Inkosaurus said:


> But what it comes down to is, the company isnt a charity case. They cant just give out the farm.


:lol::hurah::lol::hurah::lol::hurah::lol::hurah:

This has to be the funniest quote of this whole thread. Dish is pro$perou$ and Charlie is a multi millionaire.


----------



## Lazy Senior (Jan 24, 2005)

Stewart Vernon said:


> If Dish could predict the future and know you would bolt after two years, they would not bother to sign you up.


If I could predict the future I would be rich too. :lol::lol:

Not bother to sign me up? *Ridiculous.* I have already churned 5 times. I have a past record with Dish and DTV.

Guess what? DTV is ready and very willing to sign me up for the 4th time.

UPDATE: I just got a private message (from this website) from a DTV rep soliciting my business!!!!!


----------



## olguy (Jan 9, 2006)

Both providers offer new sub deals. Both providers have done so for a long time. Both providers are in business to make money. I'm sure if there were enough folks moving back and forth to cause the providers to lose more than what they consider "a cost of doing business" then the new sub deals would either go away or more restrictions would be placed on returning subscribers.


----------



## n0aaa (Sep 25, 2006)

I inherited DTV and liked it well enough, but Dish had a good intro deal at the time and a DVR (which we had not had) and I thought DTV emphasized sports far too much (Dish has more than enough to keep me happy (esp. with seasonal Red Zone). Inertia will keep me here forever unless someone comes up with something sensational (maybe if I ever try HD).


----------



## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

"Lazy Senior" said:


> If I could predict the future I would be rich too. :lol::lol:
> 
> Not bother to sign me up? Ridiculous. I have already churned 5 times. I have a past record with Dish and DTV.
> 
> ...


They sign you up because each time they think you will stay... Like I said, if they knew for certain you were going to keep bouncing back and forth, they would not jump through hoops to get you back.

I ask as I always do... If you are employed, do you give your employer a discount for continuing to employ you? No... I doubt it... Because you, like Dish, want to be paid for what you do.


----------



## Lazy Senior (Jan 24, 2005)

Stewart Vernon said:


> I ask as I always do... If you are employed, do you give your employer a discount for continuing to employ you? No... I doubt it... Because you, like Dish, want to be paid for what you do.


This is an excellent example, but you do not have it quite right. In fact you have it backwards. Let me explain.

If you have a skill employers want, the employers will pay a huge bonus to sign you on as an employee. I will give one example but I can think of many more.

Say you are a nurse or other skilled person in health care. Employers will pay thousands of dollars in signing bonus to get you as an employee. They want to steal you from your present employer. Why is this? *Competition*. Nurses have a skill that is in demand and employers will pay a bonus. Yes, you may have to sign a contract to work for a new employer for a couple years. Sound Familar? Don't believe me? Look in any newspaper want ads section.

I can also guarantee you that if your skill is in demand, your present employer will do their best to retain you even if it means matching a competitors bonus.

The same thing happens in the Satellite business. I have something that is in demand. DTV and Dish want it badly. It is *Money* and the ability to sign a 2 year contract. Yes, *competition* again. And just like the nurse story above, DTV and Dish will pay you a nice bonus to change services. :lol:


----------



## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Stewart Vernon said:


> They sign you up because each time they think you will stay... Like I said, if they knew for certain you were going to keep bouncing back and forth, they would not jump through hoops to get you back.
> 
> I ask as I always do... If you are employed, do you give your employer a discount for continuing to employ you? No... I doubt it... Because you, like Dish, want to be paid for what you do.


I believe your analogy is flawed, but that's just me! 

I was a commissioned salesman for a lot of years (of the no sales, no money variety), and my repeat customers expected more from me as the relationship extended. I was tickled to take a bit less, or offer a bit more to keep them. That is more in line with what D* and E* should be doing, imo.

I don't expect them to give me a new customer deal to stay, but something that has a value to me is certainly in order. Maybe a discount on programming or some such. And no, the 'gift' that is sometimes used of a game or other nearly worthless item isn't it. That says to me that they value me as a customer and want to keep me in the fold.

Even if the value of that isn't as much as a new customer discount, it certainly could offset the relate PITA of changing service. As it is, both services make a big deal out of getting you to switch. And they are the ones making the rules, not me or you.


----------



## inazsully (Oct 3, 2006)

A good comparison can be seen in the world of sports. When your contract expires you become a free agent. Simple concept but true. As a free agent I can stay where I am or go somewhere else. Most of us would prefer to stay with the home team and may even allow for a home team discount. For me that home team discount would be the first year of my new contract at half price and no need free new equipment. Not as good as the competing offer but because I like where I'm at I'll accept the home teams offer. Now if I'm not in demand then they will dump me in a heart beat. That's why pro sports players have representatives. Because they know it's not a matter of loyalty, it's just business. Show me the money!


----------



## Inkosaurus (Jul 29, 2011)

Lazy Senior said:


> :lol::hurah::lol::hurah::lol::hurah::lol::hurah:
> 
> This has to be the funniest quote of this whole thread. Dish is pro$perou$ and Charlie is a multi millionaire.


Im well aware of this, I unlike probably the majority of this forum have *MET* Charlie.
And trust me if you have ever met the man, had lunch with him and have seen the car he drives you would know he is easily the biggest penny pincher you will ever meet.

@Inazsully, that would be a great comparison if the Dish's and DTV's of the world actually cared to work in that manner.
Fact of the matter is that they dont and they wont.

In there eyes free receiver upgrades with two year contracts is more then enough to hopefully keep somebody around. And guess what? For the majority of the customer base it is.


----------



## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

Laxguy said:


> Oh, I got that, all right. I still stand in amazement at how proud of your self-centered approach you are! I am in *awe*!


Me Too! No Loyalty!:lol:

Guess he watched that Jerry McGuire movie too much and now all he says is"Show me the MONEY"!.

I can't blame him,if he wants to change often who are we to say No? The companies made the rules that way so you could leave; if you want to to save money and the company can't offer what he wants? I say go for it!:eek2:


----------



## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

inazsully said:


> A good comparison can be seen in the world of sports. When your contract expires you become a free agent. Simple concept but true. As a free agent I can stay where I am or go somewhere else. Most of us would prefer to stay with the home team and may even allow for a home team discount. For me that home team discount would be the first year of my new contract at half price and no need free new equipment. Not as good as the competing offer but because I like where I'm at I'll accept the home teams offer. Now if I'm not in demand then they will dump me in a heart beat. That's why pro sports players have representatives. Because they know it's not a matter of loyalty, it's just business. Show me the money!


Exactamundo! I didn't read your post earlier and I still said the same thing.:lol:

The problem arises when people take things personal,it's nothing personal just good business.


----------



## archer75 (Oct 13, 2006)

Shades228 said:


> Making blanket statements about a service being cheaper is always going to be incorrect. Dish would be insanely overpriced for my setup if they even allowed it to be done. It's all going to come down to equipment needs that will determine who's cheaper.


Correct. It's not a blanket statement. I said dish is very much cheaper for ME and the channels I care about. Which is how I compare services. The channels I care about. Which I stated in my post.


----------



## mdavej (Jan 31, 2007)

I don't fault anyone for switching every 2 years to save money and get the latest equipment. The system encourages that. 

But all providers don't have the same content. So every time you switch you lose significant content. When my provider has the content I want and no one else does, switching away from that provider to save a couple of bucks short term makes no sense. I'd still be paying a lot of money for something I don't even want, albeit at the new sub discount.


----------



## inazsully (Oct 3, 2006)

mdavej said:


> I don't fault anyone for switching every 2 years to save money and get the latest equipment. The system encourages that.
> 
> But all providers don't have the same content. So every time you switch you lose significant content. When my provider has the content I want and no one else does, switching away from that provider to save a couple of bucks short term makes no sense. I'd still be paying a lot of money for something I don't even want, albeit at the new sub discount.


Now there ya go. If Dish offered all the content I wanted I'd never switch. Actually, if they added HD RSN's 24/7, Big Ten HD, ESPN News HD, Versus HD, all included in the 200 package I'd be their slave for life. Probably.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Stewart Vernon said:


> I ask as I always do... If you are employed, do you give your employer a discount for continuing to employ you?


In effect, yes. When I was hired for each job a price was set ... do the work and this is how much we'll pay you. In nearly every job I've had the work increased over time and the pay did not increase as much. My last job never kept up with inflation (the last raise was less than half the inflation rate for the period involved) and then awarded all of their employees a pay cut that put us back years before the last raise.

I'd love to have a job that kept up with inflation - otherwise employers are getting a discount each year of continued service.


----------



## Lazy Senior (Jan 24, 2005)

James Long said:


> I'd love to have a job that kept up with inflation - otherwise employers are getting a discount each year of continued service.


Altho I do not have a job any longer (Lazy Senior=Retired=Poor=Pinching Pennies) I agree 100%.

I will wager that Charlie E. has kept up with inflation thanks to the constant increases in our Dish prices and all the people that stay longer than 2 years.


----------



## Inkosaurus (Jul 29, 2011)

Lazy Senior said:


> I will wager that Charlie E. has kept up with inflation thanks to the constant increases in our Dish prices and all the people that stay longer than 2 years.


Ehh kinda when you make it to a salary pay position at Dish its not so great (but thats generally the case at most places anyway).
The front line guys can potentially get paid really well though, they get there 80 hours, tons of available over time and then potential 40% pay bonus's based on there stats at work that applies to there over time as well as the other 80 hours as well each pay period.
I know a few agents who consistently got bigger checks then there supervisors at the site i worked at.


----------



## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

In my version of the analogy, though...

Dish has pay TV channels you want... so you either pay for them, go elsewhere and pay someone else, or do without.

FYI, I don't fault anyone for asking for a deal or trying to negotiate a freebie. Do it! Seriously, I would too... but I just don't get the expectations or anger some folk have at not getting freebies or discounts every time their contract is up.

I ask, and I love, special stuff... but my actual expectations are to pay normal price for service and I decide whether to stay or not based on whether or not I can afford it and whether or not I feel it is still worth what they are asking.


----------



## inazsully (Oct 3, 2006)

Stewart Vernon said:


> In my version of the analogy, though...
> 
> Dish has pay TV channels you want... so you either pay for them, go elsewhere and pay someone else, or do without.
> 
> ...


I understand your analogy but the OC states "Dish really doesn't care if I stay or go". We all agree that he is correct. The problem for me is understanding why Dish, or Directv doesn't seem to care when it clearly is cost effective to retain current departing subs by offering them the first year at half price, like they do for new subs, seems rather logical. I've read no opinion in this thread to change my thinking. It's not like they have to make it a blanket offer to all subs hitting the 2 year mark. Only to those wanting to switch for Directv's similar offer.


----------



## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

Why would Dish and DirecTV work against their own self interests?

I tend to disagree that they loose more by people switching than it costs to retain said customer.

Neither company is ignorant of their costs and all we have here is speculation.

I would bet they have considered and weighed the cost of jumpers vs the cost to retain them and have concluded that it is in their own self-interest to allow such unstable customers to go their way and spend their limited money elsewhere.

It may take more than two years to fully pay off the cost of a new customer, but it may cost even more to extend that payoff and extend unnecessary goodies to such people who just demand more and more.

I say if you think you know more about their business than Dish or DirecTV, you should start your own satellite company and put the other two out of business.


----------



## Lazy Senior (Jan 24, 2005)

Jim5506 said:


> I would bet they have considered and weighed the cost of jumpers vs the cost to retain them and have concluded that it is in their own self-interest to allow such unstable customers to go their way and spend their limited money elsewhere.


Assume this is True. Why in the world do they continue to pursue previous customers and re-sign "unstable" customers to another 2 year term along with all new customer promos.

In Directv promos the word switch is used repeatedly. Directv has been pursuing me for almost 2 years to "switch". They started a month after I canceled them and went to Dish. They even offered me "up to $200" towards paying off my Dish ETF.

Does this make sense? It would have been much cheaper for them to just give me another HDDVR (which I had asked for) and get me in another 2 year contract.

Certainly I do not know enough to start a TV satellite company. However I AM smart enough to be a wise consumer and spend my "limited $$" wisely.

By the way my "limited money" with Dish is over $2500 in a 2 year contract. :eek2:


----------



## inazsully (Oct 3, 2006)

You're right Jim, it is all speculation. And your last sentence is just ignorant.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

inazsully said:


> You're right Jim, it is all speculation. And your last sentence is just ignorant.


OK, lets take it down a notch or 10. People are entitled to their opinions. Everyone, please try to express them without getting personal.


----------



## wahooq (Oct 19, 2011)

i think it would be awesome if i could call Chevrolet and demand a newer truck for less money every two years


----------



## Inkosaurus (Jul 29, 2011)

Lazy Senior said:


> Assume this is True. Why in the world do they continue to pursue previous customers and re-sign "unstable" customers to another 2 year term along with all new customer promos.
> 
> In Directv promos the word switch is used repeatedly. Directv has been pursuing me for almost 2 years to "switch". They started a month after I canceled them and went to Dish. They even offered me "up to $200" towards paying off my Dish ETF.


Just going to save you a head ache if you ever decide to take up DTV on this offer.
Its a shady sales gimmick by the sales agent at best, DTV does have a promotion where they will buy out your ETF from Dish on the condition that you can provide DTV a final statement that says "Early Termination Fee", which is something Dish Network does not provide. The final bill doesnt say anything about the ETF except for its value and because of this unless you do some serious arguing and escalating with DTV representatives you will never see that check that buys out your ETF.


----------



## Lazy Senior (Jan 24, 2005)

wahooq said:


> i think it would be awesome if i could call Chevrolet and demand a newer truck for less money every two years


This is hardly a fair comparison to the Satellite Business. When you finish paying for a truck, you have something of value - the truck.

When you finish paying off a DTV/Dish 2 year contract you have - - NOTHING.

However FWIW, I constantly get mailings from Toyota and Chevrolet, 2 companies I have bought vehicles from. These mailings give me all kinds of offers. From $5000 rebates on the purchase of a new car to discounted maintenance services. Sound Familiar?


----------



## Lazy Senior (Jan 24, 2005)

Inkosaurus said:


> Its a shady sales gimmick by the sales agent at best, DTV does have a promotion where they will buy out your ETF from Dish on the condition that you can provide DTV a final statement that says "Early Termination Fee", which is something Dish Network does not provide.


Good to know and shady indeed. Another shady tactic that DirectTV has, is allowing you to upgrade packages/premium channels on their website. However to delete premiums or downgrade packages they force you to call a CSR on the telephone.

Kudos to Dish for not doing this. Dish allows you to change anything on the website, downgrade or upgrade.


----------



## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

inazsully said:


> You're right Jim, it is all speculation. And your last sentence is just ignorant.


 Obviously not alone.

That IS my point.


----------



## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

Inkosaurus said:


> Just going to save you a head ache if you ever decide to take up DTV on this offer.
> Its a shady sales gimmick by the sales agent at best, DTV does have a promotion where they will buy out your ETF from Dish on the condition that you can provide DTV a final statement that says "Early Termination Fee", which is something Dish Network does not provide. The final bill doesnt say anything about the ETF except for its value and because of this unless you do some serious arguing and escalating with DTV representatives you will never see that check that buys out your ETF.


Thousands of these get redeemed without a problem so unless you had an issue with this personally you're just spewing the DISH line. It doesn't have to have specific wording it just has to have a cancelation fee that is itemized. Itemized bills are required by law so this shouldn't be an issue.

So if DISH doesn't name a fee that they're charging for I would say that is shady. Since I have never seen a final bill for DISH I can't comment what it looks like so I assume that both companies are on the up and up. 


Lazy Senior said:


> Good to know and shady indeed. Another shady tactic that DirectTV has, is allowing you to upgrade packages/premium channels on their website. However to delete premiums or downgrade packages they force you to call a CSR on the telephone.
> 
> Kudos to Dish for not doing this. Dish allows you to change anything on the website, downgrade or upgrade.


DIRECTV wants to find out why people want to remove a service and sometimes people are even eligible for a discount to keep it. Inconvenient would be more appropriate and not everyone finds it so. There is another reason for it as well because if you remove a premium service within 30 days there's a fee. Rather than have people "not read what they say ok to" and have them agree online they have to agree with an agent.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Shades228 said:


> DIRECTV wants to find out why people want to remove a service and sometimes people are even eligible for a discount to keep it. Inconvenient would be more appropriate and not everyone finds it so. There is another reason for it as well because if you remove a premium service within 30 days there's a fee. Rather than have people "not read what they say ok to" and have them agree online they have to agree with an agent.


So make it so one cannot remove programming online until after the 30 days, and then give people the option. Or build a checkout that is so explicit that no one misses the fees. It can be done.

A blanket block on online removal that affects all customers forever can't be wished away as "protection". If the carriers really wanted to "protect" their customers they wouldn't let them add programming online or via the receiver. But the carriers want to serve their customers and make it easy for them to upgrade. DISH responded to their customer's complaints and made it easy for them to remove programming as well, and changed their fees to make it cheaper to do so as long as the programming was kept 30 days. It is a good thing.


----------



## blufkin (Jun 11, 2007)

Well back to why this thread was started.
I was with Direct for 12 years and switched to Dish six months ago. The bottom line is that I am paying $34 less per month and am only missing one channel that we watched on a semi-regular basis (Velocity). We had 2 DVR's with Direct but now have a VIP722K with the OTA module and are able to record all on one DVR. It's a toss up on programing for me. I think Direct has a much better UI on their machines but the Dish web site is much easier to use ?


----------



## mdavej (Jan 31, 2007)

... just to clarify, Dish has Velocity, but it's just not in your particular package.


----------



## blufkin (Jun 11, 2007)

$10 extra a month for one channel that we watch in that package , yes.


----------



## MattScahum (Oct 27, 2010)

tampa8 said:


> First, if you are _sure_ you are getting the programming you want and the receivers you want and can save $400 over two years, and that is important, then I fully understand switching to Direct TV at least for the two years.
> 
> Mdavej hit it on the nail. If I could save $400 I would not switch, they do not have several channels in HD (and a couple not at all) that I happen to watch. The recent Blockbuster package for $10 gets a ton of use from us both the many channels included and the free Blu-Ray rentals. The NFLZ with other sports channels for $7 fits exactly my level of interest in the NFL beyond the games I get on the networks. That isn't available with Direct TV unless you get the whole NFL package. There are other major differences for me, but my point is switching really depends your individual needs. My Brother-In-Law switched to Direct TV and really liked it. Unfortunately he didn't tell his wife about the channels she would lose in HD and they switched back. But in your case, if you have done your homework and know what you are getting, I see no reason not to switch.
> 
> One last thing, Dish has a long standing policy of not matching any promotion another provider is giving, and for good reason. Most everyone got a promotion when they signed with Dish. Dish can't keep doing that everytime someone is out of contract and threatens to leave. I feel I got some great promotions this year, including the free Starz and again, got good use of that. Amounted to $196 of free programming. Dish pricing is already less in most instances than Direct TV with more HD channels that I watch. (many receivers in the home favor Direct for pricing) and they know that so they probably feel they do not need to give someone any incentives that come close to what a new subscriber gets with a new provider.


The last part of your post Tampa is SPOT ON!!! I've always tried to explain this stuff to people even before I worked for Dish and now Direct. As much as a consumer I would like to get the best option for new customers for myself, I understand that companies that do things of that nature don't tend to last very long because they can't sustain it. The new offers are literally only there to bring you in to try the service out. The kicker is what makes you stay. Whether it is service/price/features/etc that should be the deciding factor in a company, not what free stuff the other one will give you if you start the new process over with them. personally, as many posters have already said, I wouldn't change to save $$$ the first year if I was unhappy with aspects of the service. If time warner cable ever wanted me back, they would need to add the NFL network as a must havae. They would also need to get better DVR receivers, an option for whole home functionality that doesn't cost $20 to start it and $10 for each room to have access and would need to give me a program guide longer than a week. Until that happens you could give it to me for free and I wouldn't take it.


----------



## jsk (Dec 27, 2006)

I have been with Dish for several years and I am happy with the service, so I am staying with them. I have taken advantage of several benefits over the last couple of years that I received as an existing customer:

Free Stars for a year
Free PPV certificates
A couple of other free premiums for three months here and there
Free premiums for a weekend (like we are receiving now)
Free 722K 
Free Dish Mover (twice)
Club Dish discounts (thanks to those on here that have taken advantage of the discounts with me)
Reliable service
Access to a US based call center (I think the people who churn get "shipped" over to India)
Several improvements to the service (i.e. more SD & HD channels, better free on-demand, Sling capability (when it works, but I suspect that will improve too))

Besides, to get to the same level of service that I have now (722K with 3 additional TVs connected to it), I would have to add three additional SD receivers at a total cost of $18/mo, which would eat into my savings and end up costing me more in the long run. If I wanted to add another TV, it would be another $6/mo.


----------



## satcrazy (Mar 16, 2011)

Had direct for over two years, had direct pay so they had no issues with me.

At one point, they had a "free weekend of the next package up" from mine, I liked it and asked to be upgraded, at which they insisted I needed a reciever upgrade. I asked why, since my entry level reciever worked fine during the free preview. No one could answer that. A new reciever [ I had to have 2, for a second tv] would have extended my contract for another two years and I didn't want to get tied down with another commitment. They wouldn't budge, even though they stood to make more money on the package upgrade.
Dish's normal pricing for the package I wanted from direct was cheaper, with a promise to hold that cost until 2013. I only need one reciever for 2 tv's. They [dish] have been generous with their promo packages, direct was not.

direct has been calling me to come back for almost a year now offering what I originally asked for plus free upgrades, plus promotional pricing for the first year. Everytime they call I explain why I left, hoping that info might get passed back to someone that'l listen, but apparently it falls on deaf ears. So to all the peeps who said business is business and nobody cares, your right.

I simply don't understand why, in my case, they just didn't upgrade me. They lost a steady paying customer over their "rules".

Dish has me for another year, and if they do not have a big increase in 2013, they will probably keep me, because in the end, for me at least, it is about money [ who out there is not trying to keep costs down?] PQ, and customer service.
Yes, it would be nice to get what the new customers get when your contract is met, but I really agree with an earlier poster who said the magic words " best pricing out there".

I guess I will have to wait and see what the increase might be after the price freeze. Never say never!


----------



## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

satcrazy said:


> I simply don't understand why, in my case, they just didn't upgrade me.


Why didnt you just log on the website and upgrade it yourself?


----------



## satcrazy (Mar 16, 2011)

Davenlr said:


> Why didnt you just log on the website and upgrade it yourself?


Did everything by phone. They insisted I had to upgrade my reciever to get the next package up [ I talked to a half a dozen different people at this point]

Really, it didn't occur to me to do it online, I just beleved all the people I spoke with.........


----------



## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

I can understand your position. If the package you were wanting to upgrade to contained some mpeg4 channels requiring mpeg4 equipment, and you had mpeg2 equipment, I can see their point as well, as you would not have received all the channels in the package. Since you didnt say which package to which, or what boxes you had, this is the only reason I could see where you would need a new box.


----------



## satcrazy (Mar 16, 2011)

Davenlr said:


> I can understand your position. If the package you were wanting to upgrade to contained some mpeg4 channels requiring mpeg4 equipment, and you had mpeg2 equipment, I can see their point as well, as you would not have received all the channels in the package. Since you didnt say which package to which, or what boxes you had, this is the only reason I could see where you would need a new box.


Good point.

I wanted to go from choice to choice extra If I remember right. My reciever was the basic one because at the time my tv was not HD.

I just now looked at their web site,[ direct] and I see they are offering the second year at a discounted rate. If they do that a year from now when my contract is up, I might look at that harder. However, dish still offers more channels, and since they've added MLB, it'll be close.


----------



## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

Yea, I have no beef with Dish at all. I was actually looking into switching for some of those missing channels, last year, but the price for 4 HD rooms was just to high. I was just trying to figure out the reason they wanted to change out your box to upgrade. Choice Extra does contain mpeg4 only channels, on multiple satellites, so they would have had to install an HD dish, and HD receiver to get them all.


----------



## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

blufkin said:


> Well back to why this thread was started.
> I was with Direct for 12 years and switched to Dish six months ago. The bottom line is that I am paying $34 less per month and am only missing one channel that we watched on a semi-regular basis (Velocity). We had 2 DVR's with Direct but now have a VIP722K with the OTA module and are able to record all on one DVR. It's a toss up on programing for me. I think Direct has a much better UI on their machines but the Dish web site is much easier to use ?





mdavej said:


> ... just to clarify, Dish has Velocity, but it's just not in your particular package.


Hate to tell you that channel has been the HD Test Channel-5710 for a long time.


----------



## satcrazy (Mar 16, 2011)

Davenlr said:


> Yea, I have no beef with Dish at all. I was actually looking into switching for some of those missing channels, last year, but the price for 4 HD rooms was just to high. I was just trying to figure out the reason they wanted to change out your box to upgrade. Choice Extra does contain mpeg4 only channels, on multiple satellites, so they would have had to install an HD dish, and HD receiver to get them all.


Makes sense.

Now, if only they [ direct] didn't charge for a second reciever, [ honestly, I don't know of anyone who only has 1 tv, lol ] They would be back in the running, but as it is, those "extra's" add up. Pq wasn't bad tho. Of course, like I said, my TV at the time was a hybrid Hd. I will say one thing tho, never had a signal problem with them unless The storm was directly overhead and bad.


----------



## fulltimer99 (Jan 29, 2012)

Switched to Dish last month after looking at what I was paying to Direct. Direct-$87 Dish-$50. Services are basically the same except with Dish I now have HD.


----------



## tcatdbs (Jul 10, 2008)

How do you get free PPV certificates? I've been with Dish over 5 years and have never seen one. Is that the price I pay for auto-billing?

I am "tempted" to switch to Direct, but with all the movies I have on ext hard drives, there's probably no way I will. There have been enough freebies to "almost" make up for what I would consider outlandish price increases (up 40% a year ago and about to go up another 40% when my freebies expire this month).... their ads about costs not going up are what really got me thinking about Direct. The $10 BB package and ext HD's are the main things that makes it worth sticking with Dish.



jsk said:


> [*]Free PPV certificates


----------



## jsk (Dec 27, 2006)

tcatdbs said:


> How do you get free PPV certificates? I've been with Dish over 5 years and have never seen one. Is that the price I pay for auto-billing?


No, I have always used paperless billing and auto billing since I got HD Free for Life. In looking at my account, I received three that I used in December 2010 and three that I used in February of 2011. I don't remember if they were part of my HD upgrade or part of the promotion with Stars (which I kept for the full year). You also get free PPV the first time you get someone to sign up with Club Dish.


----------



## Inkosaurus (Jul 29, 2011)

tcatdbs said:


> How do you get free PPV certificates? I've been with Dish over 5 years and have never seen one. Is that the price I pay for auto-billing?
> 
> I am "tempted" to switch to Direct, but with all the movies I have on ext hard drives, there's probably no way I will. There have been enough freebies to "almost" make up for what I would consider outlandish price increases (up 40% a year ago and about to go up another 40% when my freebies expire this month).... their ads about costs not going up are what really got me thinking about Direct. The $10 BB package and ext HD's are the main things that makes it worth sticking with Dish.


Call in and ask, if you get an agent whos in a good mood and is confident they met there amount of recordings for the day i dont see why they wouldnt hand them out 
I know i used to all the time lol.


----------



## Denali89102 (Jan 24, 2009)

Lazy Senior said:


> FWIW, 2 years ago my contract with Directv was ending. I had a HDDVR and a HD Receiver. I wanted to exchange the Receiver for a DVR. In other words my wife had found out how nice a DVR was and wanted one in her Living Room.
> 
> I called DTV and told them what I wanted. I was more than willing to sign another 2 year contract to get the DVR free. I was offered a HD DVR for $150, (a discount of $50) for being a "valued customer". I said no thanks, I can be be valued more at Dish. I then called Dish and got 2 free HD DVR's, free installation and discounted programming for a year, plus months of free HBO,SHOW,Cinemax. I signed with Dish that day.
> 
> ...


I agree with Lazy Senior. I don't know about the working class subscribers but, for us fixed income seniors D*TV has skyrocketed while our income hasn't changed for three years. We've been with D*TV for at least 5 years and have to remember to call them every 6 months in order to get a $20 reduction. If I fail to call before the $90 bill comes due, tough s**t, no credit for that month.

So, if I live that long, I expect I will go back to the other guys (or PrismTV if the ever get fiber optic to us) and get the best they have to offer at that time.

It's simple; best offer for the next two years or OTA. Period


----------



## Lazy Senior (Jan 24, 2005)

Denali89102 said:


> I agree with Lazy Senior.
> 
> I don't know about the working class subscribers but, for us fixed income seniors D*TV has skyrocketed while our income hasn't changed for three years.
> 
> It's simple; best offer for the next two years or OTA. Period


Exactly!!

When you are a Senior )) you have to stretch the $$ as far as you can. Prices go up and up and up but your income stays the same. 

I would be willing to bet most here shop around for gasoline and buy at the station with the lowest price. My wife uses coupons to save money. She rarely buys anything unless she has a coupon or it is on sale.

Why should buying TV service be any different?


----------



## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

tampa8 said:


> I say you are the loser in this. (Not calling you a loser lol) You like Dish better overall, you have to go through this every couple of years. When you make it all about the money we are on completely different playing fields. As I said, I am not willing to give up channels I watch in HD plus other things Dish only has for $200 a year, plus be under contract again, and not be eligible for free upgrades for two years, and of course the process of changing providers every two years. I got that $200 with Starz this year, the 1 Cent Cinemax last couple of years, and most likely will get at least some of that through other subscriber promo's this year which they always have.
> That doesn't make you wrong, just we view it completely differently. What you are asking Dish (or Direct) to is constantly give you a steeply discounted programming, every two years. To me that is very unrealistic and no way for Dish to run a business. I am actually surprised Dish gave you a new customer discount when you returned to them usually you have to put the account into a different name.


I believe your excellent post sums it all up.I save money every month with my 2 room setup(722k/wMT2) any subscriber has to consider that I do,also the most basic channels in HD is very important to me now that I have a HDTV.

But on the other hand I also can see where the posters are too that want the best deal because of a cheaper price,and for that they will find out they will have to switch providers for that.


----------

