# EPG Data: Why so little, and not updated?



## RVRambler (Dec 5, 2004)

Having not had 'cable tv & STB' for many years I can only compare my Dish EPG/search/dvr experience with my DTV experience.

Both Dish & DTV charge $6/mo for EPG data/dvr but the data within the Dish epg is so,so,so much less than DTV and not dynamically updated, for many things it is NOT important but for some its frustrating.

Ex. for a sports playoff where the teams are unknown in advance but become known, well DTV would actually update the RPG data when finally known (seemed like most times at least especially when more than 1 day before the game).

Another gripe, for instance the orig date of a movie or event, the Dish data is almost always 01-01-xx so you only know when the movie/event was in year xxxx, whereas DTV you got a complete date-mm-dd-yy, might be wrong but I don't think it was.

But in general the Dish data is SOOOO brief and gives barely basic info, whereas DTV gave almost too much data.

For instance, DTV EPG data, had actors (sometimes 10+) the director, screenwriter etc and you could SEARCH on each and every one of the names for movies/events or whatever which contained that name and do this recursively, on and on (almost too much)!!

So here I am, trying to watch specific college teams in basketball, I go so far as put a part of school name in, 'sports', 'basketball' filters for an 'info' search, (EPG data is so superficial all games are 'College basketball' even when a tournament) and it will not find a game (that I know and already have as a timer) with a specific team when in the EPG the name is there exactly as I inputted (I use history so as not to perpetually have to enter the fracking name)!!

This is a HUGE disappointment, especially since we pay $6 month for this damn EPG data!! 

If we paid $0 for EPG/dvr then I could 'almost' forgive this but I abhor this lack of ability to search/set timers!!

Rant over!

SURELY YOU CAN DO BETTER DISH?????!!!!!

PS: How did the 722k get rave reviews (CNET) with search capability is this flimsy and shallow?? Its so 2002, or maybe it is just me and my 2011 expectations?!


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

> Both Dish & DTV charge $6/mo for EPG data/
> 
> especially since we pay $6 month for this damn EPG data!!


Huh?


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

SayWhat? said:


> Huh?


What else is changing in your DVR functionality each month to procure the "$6 DVR fee" ?
9 days EEPG ONLY !


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

You do NOT pay $6 / month for EPG data - you pay $6 /month to be able to DVR. The basic EPG is part of your subscription.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

scooper said:


> You do NOT pay $6 / month for EPG data - you pay $6 /month to be able to DVR. The basic EPG is part of your subscription.


That's static postulation ... 
Did you try to answer to my question above? At least for yourself ? Honestly ?


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## Orion9 (Jan 31, 2011)

The EPG is included on even basic set top boxes, so I can't see how that's what the DVR fee is for.

Seems like old times. 12 years ago, people used to complain about the TiVo service fee when their cable company already provided guide data.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Orion9 said:


> The EPG is included on even basic set top boxes, so I can't see how that's what the DVR fee is for.
> 
> Seems like old times. 12 years ago, people used to complain about the TiVo service fee when their cable company already provided guide data.


I see you don't want to accept a fact of existing Extended EPG [EEPG] what came during first DVRs deployment.
Nor you aware (?) first dish DVR - DP501 didn't have those '$6 fee', but same model with bigger HDD [80/120] 508/510 incurred the fee. 
Perhaps you need accrue little more historical data before start defend your company 'we can' fee.


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## Orion9 (Jan 31, 2011)

I'm not sure what fact you think I don't accept. I see the DVR fee as the same as the TiVo fee or any other recurring fee that comes with a box. Companies have found that consumers like to pay lower up front costs with service fees and companies like recurring income that is stable and predictable so if the market accepts that pricing, that's what they'll typically go with.

A friend of mine recently activated the DVR functionality that was already in her cable box. That's pretty clever - preinstall the box and just ask for the money when the user presses the DVR button. However, she hasn't talked about any EPG data - only that she now doesn't have to run home to catch shows on-time. She accepts that she turned on recording for a fee. If someone else doesn't that's up to them.



P Smith said:


> Nor you aware (?) first dish DVR - DP501 didn't have those '$6 fee', but same model with bigger HDD [80/120] 508/510 incurred the fee. .


So you're claiming that the DP501 had no EPG??? Cuz if you're not, you seem to be shooting your argument in the foot.

Seriously if you don't want to pay the DVR fee - then I say more power to you. you might encourage them to lower it - if enough people agree.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Well, it hard to discuss the subject if you don't know difference in DVR methods between sat and cable Cos... 

You are still avoid the answer about difference in stream/fee between DVR and regular STB - what is changing monthly to procure $6 per month for DVR only ?


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

I have absolutely NO idea what you're talking about.

Even my 3000 had an 'extended' EPG of 7 to 10 days and it wasn't a DVR.

There is NO charge for the EPG on any Dish box. There may be a DVR fee, but it's for the DVR function, NOT the EPG.

EPG and DVR are not the same thing.


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## d_cubed (Jul 18, 2011)

The 508 had no DVR fee only the 510 did.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I believe the argument also fails for a 211K receiver with the added DVR external feature... Because you pay a one time activation. Fee and then have no monthly DVR fee but do get the extended guide data.


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## Orion9 (Jan 31, 2011)

P Smith said:


> Well, it hard to discuss the subject if you don't know difference in DVR methods between sat and cable Cos...
> 
> You are still avoid the answer about difference in stream/fee between DVR and regular STB - what is changing monthly to procure $6 per month for DVR only ?


So far I've been aware of all the things you claim I am apparently unaware of.  The only thing I can't figure out is want you're trying to say. Sorry.


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## Orion9 (Jan 31, 2011)

Getting back on-topic, I do agree with the OP that Dish's guide data is somewhat "light".


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## renpar61 (Aug 5, 2006)

Orion9 said:


> Getting back on-topic, I do agree with the OP that Dish's guide data is somewhat "light".


:lol::lol::lol:

understatement

it sucks! :grin:


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

Perhaps the DVR fee is confused with the charge for locals, as in you get no OTA guide data unless you subscribe to the locals.

The guide data does cost E* something to provide, however the culprit is a company called "Tribune" which can't even get the episode numbers correct half the time (as in they sometimes are missing altogether), messing up dish pass timers.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Now the company is named ROVI, what distribute EPG for OTA, cable and sat providers.


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## bnborg (Jun 3, 2005)

P Smith said:


> Now the company is named ROVI, what distribute EPG for OTA, cable and sat providers.


Is that the parent company of Tribune Media Services and TV Guide? 

The EPG shows TV Guide but Info credits TMS. Even if I do Info on a OTA channel shown as "Digital Service", it credits TMS. Go figure.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Orion9 said:


> The EPG is included on even basic set top boxes, so I can't see how that's what the DVR fee is for.


The EPG for receivers only goes out two days. Try again.


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## thomasjk (Jan 10, 2006)

harsh said:


> The EPG for receivers only goes out two days. Try again.


I get a weeks worth of the EPG on my Dish 622.


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## Orion9 (Jan 31, 2011)

harsh said:


> The EPG for receivers only goes out two days. Try again.


Seriously? OK, I'll try:



SayWhat? said:


> Even my 3000 had an 'extended' EPG of 7 to 10 days and it wasn't a DVR.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

SayWhat? said:


> I have absolutely NO idea what you're talking about.
> 
> *Even my 3000 had an 'extended' EPG of 7 to 10 days and it wasn't a DV*R.
> 
> ...


I see you have no idea what is EPG or EEPG, especially making such false statement about model 3000.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

I have a feeling these is some disagreement here on something, but I can't figure out what's going on.

I have a 722 and a 612 and pay a single $6/mo DVR fee (not a fee for guides on two boxes).

On both right now, I have a guide that runs to the morning of Thursday 12/08/2011, so the guide update early this morning 11/29/2011 gave me 10 days.

That is enough guide for me. I plan my programming a week at a time as the networks are prone to change things beyond 8 days.

The guide is provided to Dish through the old Tribune Media Group subsidiary, the same folks that own ZAP2it and its guide which is sometimes as unreliable.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Adding to that - the stream of EEPG/EPG data for OTA, cable and sat companies delivering by ROVI. Perhaps it's last mile service and source data coming from TMS.


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## Orion9 (Jan 31, 2011)

phrelin said:


> On both right now, I have a guide that runs to the morning of Thursday 12/08/2011, so the guide update early this morning 11/29/2011 gave me 10 days.
> 
> That is enough guide for me.


I don't think the OP's complaint is over the length of time. I think the number of days is someone else's topic that is confusing his thread.

It would be nice, for example, to hit the info button and get a full list of stars and guest stars. You can do this with some other platforms, but on Dish, the data is so light that I nearly always have to zoom back and scan the show's credits to find this info, and then FF back to where I was.

It basically gets the job done for me. I don't think I have ever missed a show due to missing guide data but some services do provide much more info, which is very nice to have. "Adequate" is probably the term I would use.


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## FarmerBob (Nov 28, 2002)

People have been complaining about the EPG for years. Me especially. Tribune/Zap2It is the worst provider on the planet. And no it's not dynamically updated as one would think it would be in the 21st Century. And when there is a problem, DISH points at Tribune, Tribune points at the Broadcaster, which fails because 99% of the time the broadcaster is correct. All the while TitanTV, TVGuide.com and the Broadcaster are usually spot on. I don't see how they can be that close and DISH so off at times. It has caused many failed timers that has made us go online to get fare. This has shown us that getting programming from other sources is easier, more reliable and better quality. One would imagine that DISH wouldn't want that to happen. But when I have talked to them over the years, until very recently, they were not really concerned. 

I have hundreds of pictures of bad EPG behavior and it's consistently wrong a lot and has been for years. DISH needs a new provider for this info. One that is accurate and timely. Oh, and in talking to TVGuide, once awhile back, asking about the logo on the page and that their site had up to date and accurate info and DISH's is not, I was told that the only reason that the TVGuide logo is on the page is because DISH is using a copywritten visual format of TVG and has to have the TVG logo there as acknowledgment of TVG's ownership of the format. I told the TVG guy that it makes them look bad. He agreed. But no action.


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## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

FarmerBob said:


> I was told that the only reason that the TVGuide logo is on the page is because DISH is using a copywritten visual format of TVG and has to have the TVG logo there as acknowledgment of TVG's ownership of the format. I told the TVG guy that it makes them look bad. He agreed. But no action.


I don't agree with some of the things in your post, some I do, but that quote is just flat wrong. It is the TV Guide Network on that channel. It's the same programming and descriptions as on Charter Cable, and the same as at the TV Guide site. The logo is there because that is the channel.


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

tampa8 said:


> I don't agree with some of the things in your post, some I do, but that quote is just flat wrong. It is the *TV Guide Network on that channel*.
> 
> The logo is there because that is* the channel*.


I don't believe anybody is talking about the TVGuide Channel [TVGN 117] (which doesn't even display a guide any more).


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## FarmerBob (Nov 28, 2002)

SayWhat? said:


> I don't believe anybody is talking about the TVGuide Channel [TVGN 117] (which doesn't even display a guide any more).


You 100% correct. It's the EPG that you get when you press the guide button on the remote.

I have been following this for years due to missing many timers, idiosyncratic operation due erroneous info in the listings and wondering why when Name Based Recording was made available that they did not cover all the bases properly. I spoke with TVG and was told what I posted and they were never owned by Tribune: cite: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TV_Guide. Other: "TV Guide Magazine is owned by private-equity firm OpenGate Capital, which purchased the company from Macrovision Solutions Corporation (later renamed Rovi Corporation) for $1 in 2008. Macrovision loaned OpenGate $9.5 million to finance the magazine. (Other TV Guide holdings, including Internet and cable TV assets, were sold to movie and TV studio Lionsgate.)"​I have seen many discrepancies that make the EPG basically worthless and have discussed it directly with DISH, Zap2It/Tribune and TVG on many occasions.

@tampa8, believe what you want. But I have gone looking beyond the forums, directly to the sources.


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## Orion9 (Jan 31, 2011)

FarmerBob said:


> not, I was told that the only reason that the TVGuide logo is on the page is because DISH is using a copywritten visual format of TVG and has to have the TVG logo there as acknowledgment of TVG's ownership of the format. I told the TVG guy that it makes them look bad. He agreed. But no action.


I think they want to look bad. Bad as in: if you don't pay us for using our "grid on a TV" patent, we'll sue you too.


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