# Dish 1000--> more rain fade?



## ipcd00d (Jun 23, 2006)

I had a vip-622 installed this month (replaced a dead 921) and of course they had to "upgrade" my dish 500 to a dish 1000. My signals are in the 90% range (as they were with my 500) but everytime it rains I lose signal now. With my 500, it would take a seriously strong storm to knock out my sat, but with the 1000, if we get even a fairly light rain here, its gone. (this is not a dish-1000+)

Has anyone else seen similar rain fade issues after switching from the 500 to the 1000?

Also, I was so impressed with the 622, I referred a friend to it. They got a call on the day of their installation saying that the install required a dish-1000+ and all they had in stock was the dish-1000 dish so they had to wait until the 1000+ came in. 

Thanks! Cary


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## bigted (Jul 5, 2006)

Not sure if my dish is 1000 or 1000+ but I do know they switched out my dish 500 for 1 of the 2. And yes the rain fade seems really bad now!


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## ipcd00d (Jun 23, 2006)

Are your signal strengths about the same as they were with the 500? Mine are right where they used to be, but if my neighbor runs his irrigation, I lose my HD Kung Fu. (its not that bad, but just about any amount of rain will kill it).


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## lujan (Feb 10, 2004)

ipcd00d said:


> Are your signal strengths about the same as they were with the 500? Mine are right where they used to be, but if my neighbor runs his irrigation, I lose my HD Kung Fu. (its not that bad, but just about any amount of rain will kill it).


We have had a great deal of rain here in Albuquerque in the last two weeks and I haven't noticed any rain fade. Maybe it's because I only use HDNet most of the time.


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## ipcd00d (Jun 23, 2006)

I've got a 721 and 622 so I don't think its HD dependent. I may go out ant tweak the dish tonight to see if I can get it in the high 90's.


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## Kirk_K (Jul 6, 2006)

I have the dish 500 (110 & 119) and one dish 500 with single lnb (61.5) and it just started to rain quite heavy. I lost all satellites because of the rain. Anyone else (in NY) have the same setup and problem? Thanks!


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## bigted (Jul 5, 2006)

ipcd00d said:


> Are your signal strengths about the same as they were with the 500? Mine are right where they used to be, but if my neighbor runs his irrigation, I lose my HD Kung Fu. (its not that bad, but just about any amount of rain will kill it).


My signal strengths are even better than they were before, though I didn't have HD before, but even the slightest rain and I will lose ALL feeds, once the rain slows some, I will regain SD channel, but not my HD feeds, then I will gain everything back when it is still raining but just spitting/drizzle type rain.

When I had the Dish 500 it had to be outright raining sideways for me to lose signal. Usually if the Thunder was super loud, I would lose it, but if it was just crazy rain, I was all good.


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## mikeyinokc (Jan 11, 2006)

I am in Oklahoma City. We just had the Dish 1000+ and a 622 installed last Saturday.

We had a thunderstorm come through on Monday evening, and lost the satellite for about 30 minutes. Previously we had a dish 500, and in 3 years time we only lost satellite for about one 2-3 minute period. I hope this isn't going to be an ongoing problem with the new dish.

Signal strength is as good or better than with the 500.


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## Jeff P (May 10, 2006)

Rain fade does seem to be more frequent since I've moved to the Dish 1000.

I was previously on Dish 500, and it would typically take a massive downpour or blizzard-like snowstorm for me to lose signal.

We had a typical summer storm move through a few days ago with what I would call moderate rain, and I lost signal for about 15 minutes...

Hopefully this won't become a trend... :nono:


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## Mikey (Oct 26, 2004)

We had that same storm come through here Monday night, and lost the 211 for 30 minutes. Had to go to my cable backup on that TV. Funny thing though, the 811 in the bedroom didn't lose the satellite.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

Well I had a dish 1000 and I changed it out for the dish 500 and the side sat dish for 61.5. Today I decided to change out the pan on the dish 500 for the pan on the dish 1000 just to see if I get any difference in signal strengths. I tested my signal strengths and really saw no difference in signal strength than before. OF course I didn't change out the mast or lnb or anything else just the dish pan by itself. I wanted to see if I got stronger signals due to larger dish. It rained today and I didn't know because I never lost my satellite. 

Now when I had the complete dish 1000 for all three satellites, I too had problems with the 110 and 119 sats. I had to adjust the skew to get the strongest signal for the 129 sat which caused my main sats to go down in strength. 

I wonder if a much bigger dish like a 24" or bigger would work any better for rain fade. I also wonder if it would work with the arm of a dish 500 or does it have to use its own mast and lnb?


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## mikeyinokc (Jan 11, 2006)

Mikey said:


> We had that same storm come through here Monday night, and lost the 211 for 30 minutes. Had to go to my cable backup on that TV. Funny thing though, the 811 in the bedroom didn't lose the satellite.


We lost it on both the 622 and a 301 in the bedroom, during that storm.


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## bigted (Jul 5, 2006)

mikeyinokc said:


> We lost it on both the 622 and a 301 in the bedroom, during that storm.


Me too. Both on 622 and 301.


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## noejeff0 (Jul 13, 2006)

Ya' guys got me scared now  I wanted to get the Platinum HD programming pack w/ a 622 HD/DVR and 625 DVR unit w/ the Dish1000 antenna and I'm going to have to think hard about it...I remember having rain/snow/wind issues w/ D* several years ago. 

Any suggestions???


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## ipcd00d (Jun 23, 2006)

I called Dish today and have a tech coming out on Sunday. We had a brief and very light sprinkle today and I watched the signal go from 91 to 49 on 119 & 110 (from my 721). I'm talkin very light rain, barely enough to wet the pavement. I never lost lock, but I couldn't belive the signal went down to the 40's! When the tech comes out, I'm going to ask him to set me up with two 500's and put my DP-34 back in line. When they switched to the 1000, they bypassed the DP34 and used combiners (not sure what they are called) behind my 721 and 622. Do you think that could have something to do with it?


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## ipcd00d (Jun 23, 2006)

Mike D-CO5 said:


> I tested my signal strengths and really saw no difference in signal strength than before.


Mike, I get the same sig strength that I used to have with my 500 (low 90's) with my 1000 but it seems to way to easy for the rain to degrade the signal on the 1000 in comparison.

Is Dish putting all HD locals on the same bird? I'm trying to figure out where I'll need to point when Indy gets local HDs. I may not be able to use two 500's depending on what the setup is.


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## CoolGui (Feb 9, 2006)

ipcd00d said:


> I had a vip-622 installed this month (replaced a dead 921) and of course they had to "upgrade" my dish 500 to a dish 1000. My signals are in the 90% range (as they were with my 500) but everytime it rains I lose signal now. With my 500, it would take a seriously strong storm to knock out my sat, but with the 1000, if we get even a fairly light rain here, its gone. (this is not a dish-1000+)
> 
> Has anyone else seen similar rain fade issues after switching from the 500 to the 1000?
> 
> ...


I've seen the same problem with rain now but they didn't give me a 1000... just gave me another 500 pointing at 61.7. So perhaps it is an issue with the receiver and not the dish? Or maybe they just aren't pointed well, although my signals were in the low 90 range last time I looked too.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

ipcd00d said:


> Mike, I get the same sig strength that I used to have with my 500 (low 90's) with my 1000 but it seems to way to easy for the rain to degrade the signal on the 1000 in comparison.
> 
> Is Dish putting all HD locals on the same bird? I'm trying to figure out where I'll need to point when Indy gets local HDs. I may not be able to use two 500's depending on what the setup is.


 What ever is up on 129 on national hd channels will also be on the 61.5 sat which is what I use for my hd on a second dish 500 with an I adapter peaked in the 90s and low 100s. I don't know yet where your locals will be .


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## Mikey (Oct 26, 2004)

Indianapolis HD locals seem to be in test mode on 118.7 now.

http://ekb.dbstalk.com/119klist


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## BillJ (May 5, 2005)

I get more rain fade with D1000 but it's mainly on the Chicago HD locals from 129 I can switch to the SD channel when I lose the HD signal and it often comes in fine. But if the storm is heavy enough I'll eventually lose everything from D1000. 

I still have my 61.5 dish and I've noticed all the HD channels that are on both 61.5 and 129 default to the 61.5 dish because the signal is so much stronger than 129. Also sometimes when I lost D1000 I can still get 61.5 for a while. I'm sure that's because the storm hasn't moved far enough east yet to block it.


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## ThomasTrain (Aug 9, 2005)

I've noticed that my 622 and 942 will lose signal well before my 508 will. I think the 622 and 942 receiver may just be much more sensitive to extreme drops in signal strength.


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## ipcd00d (Jun 23, 2006)

I'm certain that its not related to the receiver. I've had a 721 since they came out (4-5 years) and this is the first time I've ever had rain fade with it unless we've had horizontal rain and such. 

I don't know the technical details of the switches that are built into the LNB's but I have a hunch that the problem has something to do with the separators that are behind each dual tuner DVR that we have (enables single cable run to dual tuners).

I'd like to poll those of you that have rain fade issues:

Do you have separators (use the switch built into the LNB) or DP34/DP44 etc... with two cable running to each of the (dual tuner) DVR's?

The only two things that have changed in my setup are:

1) The addition of separators at each dual tuner receiver (and subequent deletion of a DP34)
2) Changed from Dish 500 to Dish 1000

Maybe one of the installers in the forum can provide some insight. Thanks all. I'll talk to my installer on Sunday and let you guys know what I find out. 

BTW, that's great news (for us in Indy) that they are testing out HD locals! Anybody know how long they stay there until they go live?


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## Mr-Rick (Dec 1, 2004)

Ok,

The 129 satellite that contains a large number of HD channels is much lower on the horizon than 110 and 119. Since it is lower on the horizon it will be more suseptible to rain fade. I think of it this way, the lower on the horizon, the more distance it has to travel through the atmosphere to get into space.

Second, the 129 satellite has a wobble. Over 15 minutes you will see that the signal strengths will change on the 129 satellite. So there are two factors here.

Case and point: Here in Cleveland, the 129 satellite comes in at 80% (considered a good signal strength). On a clear day and a perfect alignment, I can get 122-125 on 119. (Good comparison). However, the same national HD channels that are on 129 are also available on 61.5. 61.5 here in Cleveland has a elevation angle of 38 degrees (steep). The satellite is higher on the horizon. IF you drew a straight line from the dish to the satellite, you will see that it is steep and has to travel less through the atmosphere. Signal strengths of 61.5 are in the 100's with minimal rain fade.

For those of you interested in knowing, I have the dish 1000 look angles and footprint map available on my website. www.dishmyhome.com Click on Technical.

The footprint will show what areas NOT to use a DISH 1000. East coast should use 61.5. The second dish is worth it. NOW, if you need 129 for HD locals, that's one thing, otherwise, I would use 61.5. Just my two cents....

RIck



ipcd00d said:


> I had a vip-622 installed this month (replaced a dead 921) and of course they had to "upgrade" my dish 500 to a dish 1000. My signals are in the 90% range (as they were with my 500) but everytime it rains I lose signal now. With my 500, it would take a seriously strong storm to knock out my sat, but with the 1000, if we get even a fairly light rain here, its gone. (this is not a dish-1000+)
> 
> Has anyone else seen similar rain fade issues after switching from the 500 to the 1000?
> 
> ...


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## mikeyinokc (Jan 11, 2006)

I think the rain fade problem has little if anything to do with the receivers and everything to do with the Dish 1000. When I experienced the 30 minute period of lost signal it was on both receivers 622 and 301, and on both SD and HD. 

For the past 3 years with the Dish 500, I very rarely experienced rain fade and when I did it was just momentarily.


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## ipcd00d (Jun 23, 2006)

Rick,

I understand what you are saying, but I don't understand how this would affect my 721. All of its channels are on 110 and 119. It had never seen 129 until the Dish-1000 was installed. Since I'm peaked in the low to mid 90's on those sats, you would think it could withstand a bit of rain before it loses signal (It has for 4-5 years anyway).

Also, I guess I should have clarified my signal strengths before. I usually check them on my 721 (its on the main floor of our house) which only goes up to 100. The 622 goes up to 125 and I usually have strengths of 110-115 on both the 110 and 119 sats. On the 129, its always lower (75-85). 

Now I wonder if rain fade resulting in loss of lock on 129 will cause 110 & 119 to lose lock as well due to some relationship all the sats have with the switch. Is it possible that losing lock on 129 causes 110 and 119 to lose lock as well?


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## ipcd00d (Jun 23, 2006)

mikeyinokc,

What's your switch setup? Since you have a 301 and it has the fade problem too, I suspect that it doesn't have much to do with the separators. If its not the separators, it could still be the dish itself or the switch built into the LNB's. I have a DP Plus Twin and a DP Single on my 1000. I've thought about asking for two 500's and a DP44 switch to replace my now unused DP34. I wonder if I would get better results with that? 

Its pretty frustrating. We lost lock yesterday and it never even rained at our house. It did look like it was raining in the distance, but the radar didn't show anything other than light green precip.


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

You don't need to add a DPP44 (the 2nd P is for Plus, there is no "DP44") if you're just switching to a 2 dish setup. Move the DP Single to the new Dish500, mount it with an I-bracket to gain a few more points, and leave its output connected to the DPP Twin.


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## Mr-Rick (Dec 1, 2004)

I follow you.

I would tend to believe the reasoning would be in this order:

1. Perhaps the dish 1000 is not tuned in as good as the dish 500 you had was.
2. The design of the dish 1000 is different from the 500, naturally. However, the design must be such to see 110, 119, and 129. My thinking is that the dish 1000 or any multi-sat dish cannot be "dead-nuts" on all three sats at the same time. There is a sweet-spot where it can see all three but is not perfect on any one location. I am sure that if you took three dish 300's and tuned each to 110, 119, and 129 you would get better signal strengths than one dish 1000. I hope this makes sense, but I think this could be it. To elaborate further, in commercial applications such as an apartment building a separate dish should be used for each orbital location. This increases gain and allows each dish to be tuned in 100% on that satellite.

Rick



ipcd00d said:


> Rick,
> 
> I understand what you are saying, but I don't understand how this would affect my 721. All of its channels are on 110 and 119. It had never seen 129 until the Dish-1000 was installed. Since I'm peaked in the low to mid 90's on those sats, you would think it could withstand a bit of rain before it loses signal (It has for 4-5 years anyway).
> 
> ...


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## ipcd00d (Jun 23, 2006)

Rick,

That makes sense to me. I'll talk to my installer today about my options. Thanks!


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## mikeyinokc (Jan 11, 2006)

I do have the DP Plus 1000 dish. As far as the 301 receiver is concerned, that is the only thing that has changed. 

As for the 622 receiver, I am well pleased with its performance so far. The rain fade is the only problem I've had.


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## ipcd00d (Jun 23, 2006)

Installer checked my setup. He understood that even though my numbers were high, that the rain fade is unacceptable. He suggested that I call Dish next week and ask for an upgrade to the 1000+ & a DPP44. He indicated that Indy HD locals will be rolled out and the end of this month or early next month and that they are going to be out upgrading HD customers to the 1000+ so I should get on the list as soon as I can. 

He said that since the 1000+ has a signal amp and has a larger parabolic dish, it should fix my rain faid issues. Hope I can get the upgrade soon!


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## dbconsultant (Sep 13, 2005)

Mr-Rick said:


> My thinking is that the dish 1000 or any multi-sat dish cannot be "dead-nuts" on all three sats at the same time. There is a sweet-spot where it can see all three but is not perfect on any one location. I am sure that if you took three dish 300's and tuned each to 110, 119, and 129 you would get better signal strengths than one dish 1000.
> 
> Rick


I just got my 622 and my installer recommended installing a second dish 500 instead of replacing the original 500 with a 1000. He told me that I would get a much stronger signal strength for the 129 by having a dish 500 dedicated just for that. I am currently getting a 70+ signal strength for 129 and he told me that people with single dish 1000's (in my Temecula, CA, area) were only getting strengths in the 40-50's. So I agree with your "dead-nuts on all three" theory.


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## CoolGui (Feb 9, 2006)

dbconsultant said:


> I just got my 622 and my installer recommended installing a second dish 500 instead of replacing the original 500 with a 1000. He told me that I would get a much stronger signal strength for the 129 by having a dish 500 dedicated just for that. I am currently getting a 70+ signal strength for 129 and he told me that people with single dish 1000's (in my Temecula, CA, area) were only getting strengths in the 40-50's. So I agree with your "dead-nuts on all three" theory.


I'm still not sure. I still notice a lot more rain fade than before I got my 622. I'll agree that it may not be receiver related, but something happened to my setup. The channels on 61.5 go out first, but the channels on 119 and 110 still go out with a lot less rain than it used to take. Supposedly that dish didn't change, however the guy DID install a new LNB because the old one was defective. I wonder if that might have anything to do with it? Seems unlikely. I was just thinking... in my case, do you think it's possible the new dish, extra cable and and extra LNB might cause the signal to be weaker and cause the rain fade? Maybe I should call and try to get a Dish 1000+ installed too, but I think I'll wait to hear if it helped ipcd00d at all.


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