# Suggestions for a decent universal remote



## satcrazy (Mar 16, 2011)

Hi,
I welcome any/all input for this question.

This is what I have: Dish 222k reciever, samsung DVD/usb player, an older Denon Avr [ does the job] an older jvc 5 disc CD player [ also does the job] and a month old Panasonic Plasma.

I've been reading as much as I can about universal remotes, and even landed on a website that instructs how to program"macros", which left me feeling like I was looking at a NASA project.

Looked at Harmony's on Amazon, [ 650] and the complaints put me back to square one. I even took into consideration these people may not be tech-handy. Didn't look good.

I am looking for a device that will work with all above components with at least the basic functions of each. My current uni-remote can't do more than on/off with CD player, and I need to also have guide/format control with the dish reciever. Favorites for the dish would be nice.

I don't think I'm tech savy enough to do what some are doing{ in an earlier post.}

What is recommended?

Thanks


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I don't know what you've read about Harmony, but I'm on my fourth one and very happy. The 650 is a great deal if you don't mind changing batteries. It does everything the 700 does but recharge.


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## satcrazy (Mar 16, 2011)

Stuart Sweet said:


> I don't know what you've read about Harmony, but I'm on my fourth one and very happy. The 650 is a great deal if you don't mind changing batteries. It does everything the 700 does but recharge.


I read it consumed batteries, and alot complained the battery compartment [ the battery holders in particular ] developed slop which made the remote lose memory.


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

It's more money but the Harmony One is about as perfect as a remote gets in my book. For less money, the Harmony 700 has the Red-Green-Blue-Yellow buttons on board which makes it attractive.

All of these are confusing the first time you program them but the beauty of a Harmony remote is that they lend themselves well to the sophisticated programmer. As your knowledge of the remote and your programming capabilities improve, you will find those skills matched by increasing features on the Harmony remote. It grows as you do.

That said, I had one customer who was a very sophisticated computer user and mechanic. He built two helicopters and four planes, and has three computers using four screens in his office. He can build or program just about anything he wants to. Harmony remotes continually baffled him and he gave up. He found their support staff lacking. He was right. When I need to call them, it's a crap shoot whether I get an expert who will work with me or someone who is just reading off of a script.


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

satcrazy said:


> I read it consumed batteries.


 Battery life is an issue if it is in a commonly used system. I have a bedroom TV that uses a Harmony remote with batteries and that's OK because of its light use. My main Harmony remote uses rechargeable batteries and that solves the problem.


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## satcrazy (Mar 16, 2011)

Is there a older harmony with less issues than the 650?


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

The remote that you refer to that has charging issues is the 880. I wouldn't recommend them for that reason. My bedroom 650 is on its first set of batteries, I've had it a month. My living room 700 can go about 2 weeks on a charge, and my office 550 goes about 6 months on 4 AAAs.


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

I have to use a paperweight on my 880 to get it to charge. The 890 also had that problem.

The 700 uses a mini-USB plug in for charging, just like a cell phone.


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## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

"satcrazy" said:


> Is there a older harmony with less issues than the 650?


I've had 2 650's for 3 or 4 months now and they are both in heavy use. They're both still using their original Duracell batteries. I have 2 300i's that are more than 6 months old with their original Duracell batteries as well.

The 650 has a backlight that comes on every time you pick it up, so I would've been happy with 2 months. I'm thrilled with the battery life I am getting.

Programming a Harmony is a breeze compared to the other brand that I have. Harmony remotes may not be perfect, but I love all of mine.


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## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

"Carl Spock" said:


> I have to use a paperweight on my 880 to get it to charge. The 890 also had that problem.
> 
> The 700 uses a mini-USB plug in for charging, just like a cell phone.


Unplug the base and lightly pull the contacts out a bit with a small object. Also, make sure there is no gunk on the contacts on the remote itself.


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## puckwithahalo (Sep 3, 2007)

Could always use the learning function on the 20.0/21.0 remote that came with your 222k. Won't do all the macros or anything, but should be able to make it do all the functions of your devices.


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

dualsub2006 said:


> Unplug the base and lightly pull the contacts out a bit with a small object. Also, make sure there is no gunk on the contacts on the remote itself.


I've never tried pulling on the contacts but I regularly use a pencil eraser on the contacts on both the remote and the base. That helps when it gets really bad.

Considering I just have to put it on the charger base maybe once every three nights, and that I have the perfect mini-paper weight that rests lightly on the display, this is no big deal. It just surprises me that the base, which was a problem from day 1 with both the 880 and 890, was never redesigned. I guess it was cheaper for Logitech to just swap out bad bases when people complained.

Chris Blount, the board owner, has a 880 or 890 and never has experienced this problem. Some guys have all the luck. I've had two 880s and both have had this problem.


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

dualsub2006 said:


> Programming a Harmony is a breeze compared to the other brand that I have.


As a guy who had the initial GE universal learning remote back in the mid 1980s, I've found the current generation of remotes program all about the same. One you've learned how to do one brand's remotes, you get the basic scheme for all of them.

That said, I agree with you. Harmony's GUI is about as good as anybodys. The only thing I'd change is the ability to back up a previous remote state. You can't do that. Harmony automatically saves any changes and deletes old states. When I've wanted to play around with my remote and try something that might not work, I had to clone my remote to save the old state under a different screen name. That's clunky.


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## mdavej (Jan 31, 2007)

You can't really go wrong with harmony. My favorite pre-600/650/700 harmony is the 360, still fairly common on ebay. Great layout, lots of devices, colored buttons and stellar battery life. My kids actually got really angry with me when I sold my 360s and replaced them with 700s. In any case, I've had zero issues with my 700s, and like all harmonys, they are dirt simple to program. There were some killer deals on the 650 recently, $40 or something like that at best buy. 

Don't be tempted by the low prices of the harmony 200 and 300. They're ok replacement remotes, but not very useful universals since they have no screen for additional functions and can only do one macro. I use them only to extract codes from the harmony database to load into my other remotes.


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## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

"mdavej" said:


> Don't be tempted by the low prices of the harmony 200 and 300. They're ok replacement remotes, but not very useful universals since they have no screen for additional functions and can only do one macro.


Yeah, this is spot on. I started with the 300i because I didn't fully grasp the activity convenience. I bought 2 300i remotes one day, and 2 650's the next.

I keep the 300's in the rooms with the 650's as a secondary channel and volume changer. The 300 will also select and control other devices, but with more steps.

I also used one to teach commands to my URC WR7 remote.


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## satcrazy (Mar 16, 2011)

mdavej said:


> You can't really go wrong with harmony. My favorite pre-600/650/700 harmony is the 360, still fairly common on ebay. Great layout, lots of devices, colored buttons and stellar battery life. My kids actually got really angry with me when I sold my 360s and replaced them with 700s. In any case, I've had zero issues with my 700s, and like all harmonys, they are dirt simple to program. There were some killer deals on the 650 recently, $40 or something like that at best buy.
> 
> Don't be tempted by the low prices of the harmony 200 and 300. They're ok replacement remotes, but not very useful universals since they have no screen for additional functions and can only do one macro. I use them only to extract codes from the harmony database to load into my other remotes.


O.K., No 200 or 300.

I see several in between the 300 and 650 on Ebay. Now, before I would buy there, a couple of questions:

Will the older models support all my stuff, including the new TV?

What should I make sure it comes with? One model had a usb cable and a cd. Do they all need the cd? Another model just had the usb.

Any other older harmony model that worked well ? Seems I've read a lot of people were happier with the older stuff, and when they upgraded, a lot of issues with the new ones. I also read logitech support is bad.


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## satcrazy (Mar 16, 2011)

puckwithahalo said:


> Could always use the learning function on the 20.0/21.0 remote that came with your 222k. Won't do all the macros or anything, but should be able to make it do all the functions of your devices.


Will try this for now, but would like just a bit more functionality.

thanks


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

satcrazy said:


> Will try this for now, but would like just a bit more functionality.


Perhaps you could be more specific than "universal remote" and "a bit more functionality" in terms of what you need the remote to do.

Do you need extensive macros?

Do you need something that is largely pre-programmed to control multiple devices?

Do you want activity-based configuration?

If you don't need to be heavy into the activity based stuff, Sony makes some excellent remotes for under $30 that can do macros and learn a full set of buttons (but also include a large library of built-in code sets).


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## mdavej (Jan 31, 2007)

satcrazy said:


> O.K., No 200 or 300.
> 
> I see several in between the 300 and 650 on Ebay. Now, before I would buy there, a couple of questions:
> 
> ...


All harmonys, no matter how old, use the same device database, so no worries there.

None need a CD since the software is freely downloadable. If you already have a mini-usb cable from a phone or camera, it will work on many harmonys. I think the 600/650/700 uses micro USB, which is a little rarer, so I'd go for the included cable on those. Some, like the 700 should also include a charger.

My main problems with the newer models is they support a much smaller number of devices and have a lot less functionality overall, like no sequences (custom one-button macros), etc. That said, old models aren't problem free either. Many are prone to premature key failure among other things. Of all the remotes I've used over the years, harmonys are by far the least reliable. If reliability is paramount, go for a URC.

Logitech phone support is ok, but you only get 90 days, then you're on your own unless you open your wallet. Email support has gone from getting a response in a few days to waiting several weeks just in the past few months.

You need to be very, very careful getting a used harmony on ebay. It's safest to get refurbs from legit dealers like Tiger, Buy, Newegg, and Logitech if possible. Some ebay dealers are ok too, but I'd personally go for NIB on ebay. Refurbs carry a 90 day warranty direct from logitech. I've bought several refurbs, most of which were mint. A few had problems but were quickly replaced under warranty.

The main issue with buying a used harmony is that many people will get their remote replaced under warranty from logitech, then sell their old one. When logitech replaces any remote, they disable the old one in a few weeks. So you may very well get a remote that works fine for a week or two, then one day it will be disabled and you'll never be able to program it again. Logitech usually won't cut you any slack in this case.


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## satcrazy (Mar 16, 2011)

mdavej said:


> All harmonys, no matter how old, use the same device database, so no worries there.
> 
> None need a CD since the software is freely downloadable. If you already have a mini-usb cable from a phone or camera, it will work on many harmonys. I think the 600/650/700 uses micro USB, which is a little rarer, so I'd go for the included cable on those. Some, like the 700 should also include a charger.
> 
> ...


Thank you much for this generous info. I will use your advise and look for refurb. [ or NIB if I can find an older one] as far as key failure, I find that those soft ,gooey, rubber buttons fail quickest. What type of buttons are on the logitechs?

I read some about the "URC" remotes, but also heard the support is mostly non existent. Can you recommend a model # in case I can't find the right logitech? I need to control at least 5 devices, my current universal is very limited, and on my CD player tied into the avr, it will only turn it off and on [ play would be nice]! on the avr, off/ on and volume, tv, off/on volume and some limited settings, and nothing for the dish reciever. I don't need a complicated set up, just a good workable one.


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## satcrazy (Mar 16, 2011)

harsh said:


> Perhaps you could be more specific than "universal remote" and "a bit more functionality" in terms of what you need the remote to do.
> 
> Do you need extensive macros?
> 
> ...


What would be ideal [ I think] is a remote that has a "learning eye" where you point a existing remote at it and it copies all the button functions of that remote [ easily]

Is there such a device?

I am only familiar with pre-programmed at this point. GE to be precise, and it is sorely lacking.


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

satcrazy said:


> What would be ideal [ I think] is a remote that has a "learning eye" where you point a existing remote at it and it copies all the button functions of that remote [ easily]
> 
> Is there such a device?
> 
> I am only familiar with pre-programmed at this point. GE to be precise, and it is sorely lacking.


Logitech Harmony. The codes that are not in the database can be easily learned from the original remote.


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## mdavej (Jan 31, 2007)

satcrazy said:


> Thank you much for this generous info. I will use your advise and look for refurb. [ or NIB if I can find an older one] as far as key failure, I find that those soft ,gooey, rubber buttons fail quickest. What type of buttons are on the logitechs?
> 
> I read some about the "URC" remotes, but also heard the support is mostly non existent. Can you recommend a model # in case I can't find the right logitech? I need to control at least 5 devices, my current universal is very limited, and on my CD player tied into the avr, it will only turn it off and on [ play would be nice]! on the avr, off/ on and volume, tv, off/on volume and some limited settings, and nothing for the dish reciever. I don't need a complicated set up, just a good workable one.


Many harmonys have a mix of rubber buttons and dome contacts (ones that click). The rubber buttons can usually be repaired when they start to fail, but the dome contacts cannot. Unfortunately the dome ones are the what wears out first on harmony.

You are on your own with most URCs because they are sold and maintained by pro installers. So you either have to pay someone or find the software on your own. They do have lower end models for end users, like the R50 which are quite good.

If learning is all you want/need, nearly any universal remote $5-$20 will work fine, but will take a little more time and effort to set up the macros (activities) and aren't quite as intuitive to use on complex systems. If cost is your main concern, remotes like the URC WR7 (backlit) and RCA RCRP05B (not backlit) suggested in recent threads will do everything you need for less than $20. Harmony's are easier to set up and operate thanks to the LCD and programming via PC, but cost more. It's money well spent IMO since you can be up and running in just a few minutes.

If you have no need for macros, you may as well stick with a learning Dish remote like the 21.0 suggested earlier. But IMO, the buttons on the Dish remote are too stiff and they are a little more difficult to program than other similarly priced universals.


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## puckwithahalo (Sep 3, 2007)

satcrazy said:


> What would be ideal [ I think] is a remote that has a "learning eye" where you point a existing remote at it and it copies all the button functions of that remote [ easily]
> 
> Is there such a device?
> 
> I am only familiar with pre-programmed at this point. GE to be precise, and it is sorely lacking.


The 20.0/21.0 remotes that came with your receiver has that. That was what I was talking about.


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## puckwithahalo (Sep 3, 2007)

Steps to use the learning functions.

1) On the dish remote hold the mode button (tv, dvd, aux) your are trying to program to down until the other mode buttons light up. When you let go that mode button should start blinking.

2) Hold the record button until the mode button lights up solid

3) push and let go of the button that you want to program to on the dish remote (ie, volume +, channel +, menu). The mode button will go out and come back on when you do that.

4) Point your original remote (for the tv, dvd player, etc.) at the ir receiver on the front left of the dish remote and hold down the button your are trying to program for until the mode light on the dish remote goes out and comes back on.

5) repeat steps 3 and 4 for every button you want to program.

6) once you have programmed all buttons desired, hit the mode (tv, dvd, aux) button on the dish remote. It will blink 3 times.

Should do the trick for you.


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## satcrazy (Mar 16, 2011)

mdavej said:


> Many harmonys have a mix of rubber buttons and dome contacts (ones that click). The rubber buttons can usually be repaired when they start to fail, but the dome contacts cannot. Unfortunately the dome ones are the what wears out first on harmony.
> 
> You are on your own with most URCs because they are sold and maintained by pro installers. So you either have to pay someone or find the software on your own. They do have lower end models for end users, like the R50 which are quite good.
> 
> ...


will practice on the dish remote, but I really won't use it in the end because I do not care for the lay out. I looked at a harmony 550 on amazon, but the buttons are realy small. There was also a 620 on ebay, like new, larger buttons, dogbone shape which I like, no retail box, but I am leary now after what you mentioned.


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## satcrazy (Mar 16, 2011)

Found one at Kmart, RCRN06GR, [RCA brand] works with ALL my components, [ the dish remote did not recognize my avr, even with the "learning" function] It has learning,and macro capabilities, and is backlit, 6 device, 15$.

Looked at WR7, the button layout was not as user friendly, so far, for the $, this one suits my purpose.

Someone on one of the forums I go to said there is no universal that will work with the Dish 222k reciever, and they are incorrect, this one does.

Thanks for all the input, I realy was leaning towards a Harmony, but too many negatives for the $.


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## bobnielsen (Jun 29, 2006)

I realize I'm opening up an old thread but thought I'd offer some comments.

I had a Harmony 880 for ~6 years and it worked well, except for the charging issue (Logitech even replaced it for this although it was out of warranty). It finally died after some liquid was spilled on it  . 

I replaced it with a Harmony 650 and found the Harmony 650 to work well and have only changed batteries twice in 6 months of regular use.

The issue I have is that after making some changes recently and re-flashing the software using the Harmony software, the remote lost functionality of some keys, including functions which weren't changed. After I re-flashed again, some of those keys came back but some others were not functioning (I tried this several times with no improvement, leaving me to believe that the remote had failed). 

I think that somehow the memory got messed up and contacted Logitech via the support link on their web site. After a couple of exchanges (they wanted further information) I was informed that since I had the remote for over 90 days I would have to pay for support. Since there are 6 months left on the warranty I find this quite unacceptable. I don't know how much they charge for support, but new 650s are available for $50.

I picked up a URC R50 for ~$75 and it is working fine but it looks like it will be somewhat challenging to program any macros (this is done using the remote keys rather than a computer), however I will give that a try in order to gain some of the advanced functionality that the Harmony remotes have. Since they don't remember the device states, it will still take more keystrokes to switch from one function to another. The R50 has a somewhat strange key layout but appears to be very solidly built.


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## 1953 (Feb 7, 2006)

I highly recommend a Harmony One.


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## mdavej (Jan 31, 2007)

The only drawback of the One is the lack of colored buttons for DirecTV. They take up valuable screen space that could be used for other things. So I find the 700 and 900 better overall thanks to more hard buttons, but they have their own drawbacks too.

I don't understand the comment about more keystrokes to compensate for no state tracking. DirecTV has discrete power commands, so state tracking is unnecessary.


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## bobnielsen (Jun 29, 2006)

The colored buttons are one of the reasons I chose the 650 (my Samsung Blu-ray uses them also). My concern about the command states was for devices other than my Directv DVR (some of which only have a power toggle).

I have written to Logitech again trying to get them to replace the 650 (yes, I know they are only $50 at Costco, but it's still under warranty and they should stand behind their products).


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## Transplanted Yankee (Oct 18, 2010)

I've had my 650 now for about a month. I was hesitant at first, thinking I would not like it, or would fit my needs based upon all the negative posts.
Before I even used it, I took some one sided stick foam, perhaps 1/4" and stuck it on the inside of the battery cover, filling in both the top and bottom cavities of the cover. I've not had one issue with batteries coming loose, or the remote not working/acting up.
Another thing I was able to do is take my Dish 722 remote and learn a few functions over to my 650's colored buttons using the stand alone Logitech program.
I didn't think I'd like my 650 as much as I am. I find it controls all my devices very well. I setup a PS3 function on the remote to simply do all the video switching for me on the TV and Receiver, then I simply have to manually turn on the PS3. Works well enough for me without having to shell out the $$ for the PS3 adapter.
As far as batteries, so far the original ones have lasted me a month...And I use this remote a lot. Going forward, I've purchased one of those Duracell recharge units which came with 4 AA rechargeable batteries, so I will always have a fresh set for the remote.
Other than that, once setup, all I've been doing is enjoying it and not having to spend a bunch of time troubleshooting issues...It's simply working fine.


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## lugnutathome (Apr 13, 2009)

Harmony will (if asked) issue you a 50% off credit for a new replacement OF THE SAME MODEL and only applicable to their on line ordering. Unfortunately they are dumping this model (50 bucks at BB as well) and I don't see it as available for sale on their site anymore.

Not sure how they would handle a no longer current model but perhaps they might transfer the credit against a 700. I've heard of 880 customers getting a great deal on Ones just by asking.

I've had to get a replacement One under warranty. Handled very well and just recently a 700 off warranty. Asked for a 50% off credit and got it. Old unit is still functional too just the OK/Select key is hosed. It's now useful in my home office for controlling my Creative 5.1 speaker/amp system in there.

I recently stocked up on several of the 650s as well for use in my workout room. If I get sweat in them and they fail after a tad over a year like that 700 did, just put batteries in a new one, click replace remote, done.

I found their warranty dept to be very accommodating.

Don "course having half a dozen, Ones, and 700s might have helped" Bolton



bobnielsen said:


> The colored buttons are one of the reasons I chose the 650 (my Samsung Blu-ray uses them also). My concern about the command states was for devices other than my Directv DVR (some of which only have a power toggle).
> 
> I have written to Logitech again trying to get them to replace the 650 (yes, I know they are only $50 at Costco, but it's still under warranty and they should stand behind their products).


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## egakagoc2xi (Jul 1, 2010)

I have a Harmony One for almost two years and haven't had anything to complaint about. Harmony is the way to go.


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## bobnielsen (Jun 29, 2006)

lugnutathome said:


> Harmony will (if asked) issue you a 50% off credit for a new replacement OF THE SAME MODEL and only applicable to their on line ordering. Unfortunately they are dumping this model (50 bucks at BB as well) and I don't see it as available for sale on their site anymore.
> 
> Not sure how they would handle a no longer current model but perhaps they might transfer the credit against a 700. I've heard of 880 customers getting a great deal on Ones just by asking.
> 
> ...


Of course, you can find Harmony products at ~50% on eBay (or Amazon, etc.)

I haven't yet set up any macros on the URC R50, but it will handle up to 18 devices with 255 step macros so just about anything is covered. It is very solidly built and I am getting used to the key layout.


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## mdavej (Jan 31, 2007)

lugnut,

I highly recommend JP1 remotes for your situation. They are much more powerful and reliable than harmony and can be replaced for less than $10. My JP1 remotes typically last many years (I have some over 10 years old) because the keypad design is very simple and easy to clean and refurbish. They have essentially no macro or device limitations like harmony thanks to the custom operating system we load into them. Some of my macros (activities in harmony terms) are over 30 steps and run much faster than on harmony. My $15 RCA RCRP05B controls my 12 device home theater, computer and home automation system using over 20 activities. I'm not dependent on any web server and can run the very sophisticated programming software on any platform (pc/mac/linux). If I need RF, I just pop in a Next Generation transmitter. It beats the heck out of shelling out hundreds of dollars every couple of years. If the dirt and sweat doesn't kill your harmonys, normal use certainly will because those clicky dome keys always wear out, and very quickly.


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