# How can ne1 say Dish's standard def channels have PERFECT



## Guest (Feb 18, 2002)

picture quality?


I hear people(who just have the standard def Dish Network recievers and don't even have a 6000) say stuff like Dish has PERFECT picture quality, or Dish has a DVD quality picture and stuff. I feel like I'm in an episode of The Twilight Zone or something. Many people on dbsforums, dbstalk, and the newsgroups have said that Dish's standared def channels have "a perfect picture" or that they have a "dvd quality picture".
I like how most of the people at AVSforums call a spade a spade and say flat out how bad Dish's standard def channels are. Some of them say that they don't even watch Dish's Standard def channel ever anymore because of the overcompression.
Many people have done calculations with their PVRs and found that that some times the standard def Dish channels go as low as 2.5 Mbps or even lower.
I'll give you comparisons of how bad that really is.
Keep in mind that it's on a logrythmic scale and NOT on a linear scale so that 5.0 Mbps may be like 3 times or even 10 times better picture quality than 2.5 Mbps and not just double the way it would be on a linear scale.
From what I've read UNcompressed 720x480 digital video WITHOUT even sound takes up 250Mbps of bandwidth.
So even if you were to use a lossless compression type, it would still require like around 125Mbps of bandwidth.
A superbit DVD has about 6.0 to about 7.3 Mbps of bandwidth.
Even the regular dvds with the whole bunch of bunch of trailers, bonus footage, comentary, and other stuff probably runs at 3.75 to 5.0 Mbps.
So unless somebody can prove that a certain standard def Dish channel they were watching was getting at least 3.75Mbps or that Dish is somehow using a VASTLY VASTLY superior compression method than dvds, then nobody should ever say that Dish's standard def channels have a dvd quality picture.
The only way I'd give a dish standard def channel a perfect score for picture quality(considering it's technical limitations) is if it was getting an entire transponder(which is like 27 to 30Mbps), and if Dish had component outputs on even the standard def recievers.


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## Guest (Feb 18, 2002)

Currently, they don't. Must-Carry has caused PQ to get worse over the past month-and-a-half, but I believe most of us understand the reason. Your calculations sound pretty complicated, and I don't dispute them. Here's my gauge..

I don't notice enough pixellation to warrant me getting off the couch to watch something else. More importantly, my wife sitting next to me doesn't *****, so I enjoy my leisure time and don't worry about it.


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## Guest (Feb 18, 2002)

You must remember that it is a log pattern, not an exponential pattern. Look at a log graph and it's easy to see what happens. It starts off shooting straight up, then settles down, and eventually, there is almost no increase. So what you have are diminishing returns. The jump from DISH to a typical DVD is huge. The jump from a typical DVD to one with a lot of bandwidth (SuperBit series, Star Wars Episode 1, etc...) is somewhat noticeable on a good TV with good eyes. The jump from a high bandwidth DVD to uncompressed is only somewhat noticeable again, yet represents a much greater increase in bandwidth (technically bitrate, not bandwidth, but I'm trying to use the common man's term).

I do not know how anyone with half decent eyes can say DISH looks like DVD. Unless they have the world's worst, or a VERY poorly adjusted TV.


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## Guest (Feb 18, 2002)

Hi Jack, Welcome to DBSTalk, hope you decide to reigster and come back.  
I can honestly say of lately, I haven't see to many posts around here comparing Dish to DVD quality. I can't speak of other forums. Since the addition of the must carries on Jan 1st, I honestly think our picture quality is somewhat worse now. Im optomistic that maybe with successful launch of Echostar's new spotbeam satellite, maybe in late spring we might regain some picture quality back on a few channels.


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## Guest (Feb 18, 2002)

Hi Jack,

Dish's picture quality is NOT like DVD. No way, no how. Maybe a few of the PPV and premium channels come close but all of the other channels look like doggy du-du next to DVD. To be fair while watching Dish on a 27" TV or smaller, most channels look fine but when blown up for bigger TV's, you will see a BIG difference.


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## Guest (Feb 18, 2002)

Hey Jack,

I haven't seen anyone here post in a long time that Dish's PQ is as good as DVD...I used to say that it looked as good as LD PQ when I was watching on a 27" tv, but now that I'm on a 51" HD television, it can be unwatchable at times. You forgot to mention one thing in your post, though. Directv's PQ isn't much better most of the time. Bot providers compress the channels way too much. You can't see the difference on a 10" screen (what the engineers at the broadcast centers watch on), you can just barely see the difference on a 27" screen. On a 51" screen, the difference is night and day.


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## Guest (Feb 18, 2002)

yea i agree, picture is bad. i was watchin extasy, the picture was all blurry. it was either that or i was too drunk to see right. i am going to call and complain

Admin Edited: Reason, terms of use violation:

(4) constitutes pornography, or sexual material of an obscene nature


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## Guest (Feb 18, 2002)

Chris, on my 27" Mitsubishi you can see a huge difference.


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## Guest (Feb 18, 2002)

What's up with all the censorship here? Jeeez, i thought this was a free speech board.


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## Guest (Feb 18, 2002)

Read the terms of use, and go pull somebody else's chain somewhere else.


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## Guest (Feb 19, 2002)

Neilster1 pretty much said it. The terms of use have been in place since the beginning. This is a free speech board but not a free-for-all. Posts do get edited and threads closed but only if they break the terms of use set up by the admins here and EZBoard. 

Thousands of people read these forums every day and you will get much further by leaving out unnecessary sexual references and personal attacks. 

Like what is stated in the TOU, if you find these rules inconsistent with a free speech forum, you are perfectly welcome to go elsewhere.


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