# Is direct tv falling behind?



## icr2002 (Feb 26, 2005)

Dish annouced an 8 tuner dvr. Wheres Direct tvs?!


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

They did? Do you have a link?


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

icr2002 said:


> Dish annouced an 8 tuner dvr. Wheres Direct tvs?!


Actually it's a Hopper with Super Joey, not just a single 8 tuner DVR. Also, the 8 shows recording is fancy math... it's not any 8 recordings; it's 4 PTAT + 2 on the Hopper + 2 on the Joey.


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

Dish Network announced at CES that they would upgrade the Hopper to record 8 programs at once. Of course, this is REALLY a 5 tuner DVR, but they take advantage of the trick of putting all 4 broadcast networks on one transponder, and then having their "Primetime Anytime" feature simply record the entire transponder. So, if you want to record ALL 4 networks, then that, plus the 4 available other tuners, allows you to record 8 programs at once.

So, depending upon whether or not you want to record ABC, CBS, FOX or NBC during primetime, this DVR will have the ability to record 5, 6, 7 or 8 programs of interest. However, outside of primetime, and if you are not interested in recording more than 1 primetime network program, it is a 5 tuner DVR, just like the DirecTV Genie.

EDIT: Didn't realize it actually used 2 different pieces of hardware.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Yeah I figured that's all this is which is to say its nice but it's iffy that it's better than a genie for most people. It could go either way depending on the house.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

While DISH offers a combination of goodies that can record as many as 8 (or maybe 9) programs at once to a single hard drive, their Hopper DVR has three satellite tuners in it. This requires two boxes (and a USB attachment for tuning one OTA channel?) as well as imposing a condition that four of the channels are ABC, CBS, FOX and NBC.

DIRECTV's flagship Genie DVR can record up to five programs at once (more or less unconditionally) and that's probably enough for most.


For most, it comes down to what the box can deliver in terms of programming and the user interface, No number of tuners can address that issue.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

And ironically it (the Hopper-Super Joey combo) is actually a degradation in recording capacity of one less tuner than a two Hopper installation, since the streaming requirement of up to two programming channels by the SJ to its parent Hopper heavily taxes the bandwidth of their MoCA network such that a max. of only one Hopper and SJ can be used in a customer installation.

Any more beyond the Hopper-SJ combo in an install must be regular Joeys


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Yeah, it's not an 8-tuner DVR by any stretch. "If" you live in a market where PrimeTime AnyTime works, AND you have a Hopper, THEN you can add a Super Joey. This gives you 5 full-time tuners and the ability to record up to 4 broadcast networks at the same time ONLY DURING PRIME TIME. Keep in mind too that no other equipment can be in the system if it's a hopper system.

DISH may finally be getting to the point where they can offer their customers 5 full-time recording tuners to all be shared, but DIRECTV did that in 2010 when they offered whole-home, and then gave you a 5-tuner box in 2012. You can upgrade your DIRECTV system to almost infinite capacity if you don't share programs with more than 10 devices at a time, and if you have a Genie and 5 HR24s on a SWM16, you have a simple system with 15 recording tuners that can all share programming. DISH is nowhere near that.


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## jasondm4 (Mar 5, 2010)

I'm sorry but recording 8 shows at once just sounds ridiculous. I mean what % of consumers would actually take advantage of all that. Not many.


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## kaminar (Mar 25, 2012)

1 For the hopper/super joey setup, can the user view and/or set-up recordings, from any receiver?
2. Is it shared in a similar fashion to the D* Genie/Whole Home system is the viewing and access limited?
3. Tuner in each joey means pause/rewind live tv, right?
4. Any specific limitations we should know of?

Is there a way to compare specs/features? We should make a list.

Does E* plan a wireless video hopper in the future, like the HR44/Wireless Video Bridge/C41W set-up?

-=K=-


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## kaminar (Mar 25, 2012)

jasondm4 said:


> I'm sorry but recording 8 shows at once just sounds ridiculous. I mean what % of consumers would actually take advantage of all that. Not many.


In general, a small %. On this forum, a much, _*MUCH*_ larger % 

An exotic sports car might be able to reach 200mph, but how many owners ever attempt such speeds? More likely, they enjoy the fact they CAN, if ever they wish to.

-=K=-


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## JohnBoy (Sep 9, 2011)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Yeah, it's not an 8-tuner DVR by any stretch. "If" you live in a market where PrimeTime AnyTime works, AND you have a Hopper, THEN you can add a Super Joey. This gives you 5 full-time tuners and the ability to record up to 4 broadcast networks at the same time ONLY DURING PRIME TIME. Keep in mind too that no other equipment can be in the system if it's a hopper system.
> 
> DISH may finally be getting to the point where they can offer their customers 5 full-time recording tuners to all be shared, but DIRECTV did that in 2010 when they offered whole-home, and then gave you a 5-tuner box in 2012. You can upgrade your DIRECTV system to almost infinite capacity if you don't share programs with more than 10 devices at a time, and if you have a Genie and 5 HR24s on a SWM16, you have a simple system with 15 recording tuners that can all share programming. DISH is nowhere near that.


Impressive....

Now if Directv can give me a firmware update to get rid of ghost caller id's while i'm on the phone would be nice.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

"soon"


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## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

True, there are only two of us in the house, but in more than six years with DVR's only twice have I had to watch an OTA program on my TV because my DVR was busy recording two programs at once.

I don't need or want a Hopper or a Genie...


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Diana C said:


> ...and then having their "Primetime Anytime" feature simply record *the entire transponder*. ..


it's a myth

I did post how it's done after analyzing the recordings from real drive.


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## MikeW (May 16, 2002)

I wouldn't be as concerned with recording 8 shows as I am with available tuners. I would run into conflicts on a regular basis if I was limited to PTAT, and four open tuners. There is more math involved, such as a user on Sling and other TVs tuned to live programming. For me, a Genie, 4 HR24s and 2 H25s leaves me with 13 recordings, 2 live and an open port on the SWM 16. That is hard to max out in real life.


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## yosoyellobo (Nov 1, 2006)

I currently have nine tuners and the only time I have use them all at a time was the first time I use the genie to test them.


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## Riverpilot (Aug 13, 2010)

I'm ready for two genies in my home. 8 recordings at once plus being able to watch on each tv? I'm in... Lets' go Directv! TWO GENIES


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

jasondm4 said:


> I'm sorry but recording 8 shows at once just sounds ridiculous. I mean what % of consumers would actually take advantage of all that. Not many.


That is so very easy for me to accomplish. Way to easy actually. I see that as a great thing, but it needs to be any channel all the time to be useful. Its the sports that push me past five.


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

Riverpilot said:


> I'm ready for two genies in my home. 8 recordings at once plus being able to watch on each tv? I'm in... Lets' go Directv! TWO GENIES


Two Genies would give you 10 tuners.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Yes, but he said 8 record plus both have a live channel..


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## quack05 (Nov 26, 2008)

So who cares about a Super Joey. I have a Genie and 2 other DVR's so I can record 9 shows at once and they all would be what I wanted to record, not what dish says needs to be recorded.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

quack05 said:


> So who cares about a Super Joey. I have a Genie and 2 other DVR's so I can record 9 shows at once and they all would be what I wanted to record, not what dish says needs to be recorded.


D*'s advertising group thanks you for quoting from one of their dumber ads!  I always like the ads with 'users' that are so dumb you just know if they had a VCR it would still be blinking 12:00 after all these years!! 

That said. From the topic of this discussion, and totally from a UI perspective, D* fell way behind the day the first Hopper shipped. Today's HDGUI on D* is just a slightly gussied up version of the old school text version they had for many years. The fact that they did it this way is only superseded by how long it took them to get even that done. I had to LOL so many times when the usual fanbois brayed about how wonderful the new D* HDGUI was, and then when the rest of us got to see it and how it negatively affected so many HRs at the time, we knew it was really one of the biggest wastes of programming talent in history!

For those that need tons of tuners D* is well ahead of Dish, that isn't even an argument as far as I can see.

But for the vast majority, a single Genie with some Minis or a single Hopper with some Joeys would more than fill the bill. The addition of the Super Joey is a nice step and is much nicer in implementation than the 2 Hopper setup. So where the rubber meets the road it is just 2 solutions to a single problem, with both solutions more than capable enough for almost all of both D* and E* customers.

Only those power users might see it differently, and for them it IS a big deal.


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## patmurphey (Dec 21, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Yeah, it's not an 8-tuner DVR by any stretch. "If" you live in a market where PrimeTime AnyTime works, AND you have a Hopper, THEN you can add a Super Joey. This gives you 5 full-time tuners and the ability to record up to 4 broadcast networks at the same time ONLY DURING PRIME TIME.


Not so. Recording 4 shows on one tuner has been 24/7 for a while now. BTW, the OTA tuner adds a tuner.


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

icr2002 said:


> Dish annouced an 8 tuner dvr. Wheres Direct tvs?!


Yeah, about that........read a little deeper.....8 tuners my a$$


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

I think probably every one might agree that the DIRECTV GUI does need a face lift. I know that DIRECTV wants to try to keep the user experience fairly consistent between all their platforms but I think that is holding back the Genie from what it can be changed into. Maybe DIRECTV just needs to wake up and say OK, the HR2X, H2X and SD receiver lines can look the same but Genie will get a 2014 looking interface.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

The current menu system isn't so old, but I agree that it could look better. Certainly the HR34 and HR44 Genies could support a more advanced, more responsive OS, but going back now 8 years the real issue is that DIRECTV insists that all its receivers have the same text size, the same number of lines in the guide, etc. What works on a 13" SD TV and what works on a 60" LED are obviously quite different, and different people like different things.

Putting aside some of my personal issues about the typography in the menus (which is sadly a step backwards from the previous) it does at least make sense to offer several text sizes for the guide and info bar.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

There's no evidence that D* thinks that way at all, or is even considering it. And personally I think that's too bad.

But I've always had this niggling thought in the back of my head that D* does things in minimalistic ways when it comes to the tech itself. I think the boxes have always been designed around today's issue with little to no thought where we might be in just a few years out. IOW, the HR44 Genie is very fast, faster even than the Hopper w/Sling I had, but it is the only box D* has ever had that is faster than any of E*'s boxes over the years.

And it isn't just speed. Consider the HR20. 4 tuners, yeah sounds great, but could only use 2 at any given time. A totally illogical and unexcusable design consideration. And then to watch as each HR from there on until the HR24, be slower than the previous for all too many. Just poor designs and implementation and is a sign of minimalistic design consideration IMO. And you don't have to look that far back. Add an AM21 and it doesn't add a tuner, it replaces one in use.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> The current menu system isn't so old, but I agree that it could look better. Certainly the HR34 and HR44 Genies could support a more advanced, more responsive OS, but going back now 8 years the real issue is that DIRECTV insists that all its receivers have the same text size, the same number of lines in the guide, etc. What works on a 13" SD TV and what works on a 60" LED are obviously quite different, and different people like different things.
> 
> Putting aside some of my personal issues about the typography in the menus (which is sadly a step backwards from the previous) it does at least make sense to offer several text sizes for the guide and info bar.


The current menu isn't so old, but the current menu wasn't really any big step up from the old menu to begin with. All in all, when all the blathering about the 'great, wonderful, new HDGUI' was going on, it was just a very minor step up from what we've seen for years.

After using a Hopper, it was a huge disappointment to come back to the very old, outdated years ago, menuing that D* insists on using for whatever reason. The Genie with the new name and all the advertising could and should have been the way to introduce to the D* subscribers something really new and highly desirable, yet they just let that boat sail!


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

there are a few times where I had the need of more than 5 tuners and yesterday was one of then, I needed 7 tuners. So I had to fall back on one of my dual tuners HDDVRs for the rest of the recordings 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

peds48 said:


> there are a few times where I had the need of more than 5 tuners and yesterday was one of then, I needed 7 tuners. So I had to fall back on one of my dual tuners HDDVRs for the rest of the recordings
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I can fully understand that. With the incessant reruns on all but the broadcast channels, as long as you watch delayed/time-shifted, there is seldom an occurence of needing more than that for me.


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

jasondm4 said:


> I'm sorry but recording 8 shows at once just sounds ridiculous. I mean what % of consumers would actually take advantage of all that. Not many.


I agree.


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## Curtis0620 (Apr 22, 2002)

I don't use a DVR for the GUI, I use it to record what I want, when I want. So the most important thing is the number of tuners. I don't care if the menu looks pretty.


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## WB4CS (Dec 12, 2013)

Curtis0620 said:


> I don't use a DVR for the GUI, I use it to record what I want, when I want. So the most important thing is the number of tuners. I don't care if the menu looks pretty.


I have to agree with this one. Who cares if the menu isn't pretty or super-duper animated? So what? When I'm watching TV, I'm watching the TV Program, I don't spend hours looking at my DVR menu.

In fact, I'd prefer a simple, text only guide and menu system. I don't need animated menus and a super graphical display just to browse through the guide data.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

I want both, and there is no technical reason that you can't.


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## Riverpilot (Aug 13, 2010)

inkahauts said:


> Yes, but he said 8 record plus both have a live channel..


Yep, perhaps I should have made myself a bit clearer. 

Please Directv... 2 genies  For those who don't need that many? Great. For those who want 2 genies, like myself? Bring it on!


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

inkahauts said:


> Yes, but he said 8 record plus both have a live channel..





Riverpilot said:


> Yep, perhaps I should have made myself a bit clearer.
> 
> Please Directv... 2 genies  For those who don't need that many? Great. For those who want 2 genies, like myself? Bring it on!


Oops sorry about that, I misread it. 

Two Genies would be nice, but I'm getting by with 8 tuners now (5+2+1).


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## jeffgbailey (Feb 29, 2008)

maxing out the 5 tuners is easy if you like sports....got that issue tonight and I even have to drop the 1 min early on one program to fit everything in (2 network shows back to back on different nets, 1 cable show, 3 sports events) so issue is I cant watch anything else (only have Genie)


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## zeus (May 18, 2011)

MikeW said:


> I wouldn't be as concerned with recording 8 shows as I am with available tuners. I would run into conflicts on a regular basis if I was limited to PTAT, and four open tuners. There is more math involved, such as a user on Sling and other TVs tuned to live programming. For me, a Genie, 4 HR24s and 2 H25s leaves me with 13 recordings, 2 live and an open port on the SWM 16. *That is hard to max out in real life.*


And a nightmare to manage. Just two HR24s gave me headaches going room to room while trying to plot out my recording strategy based on who was going to be where at what time.



Curtis0620 said:


> I don't use a DVR for the GUI, I use it to record what I want, when I want. So the most important thing is the number of tuners. I don't care if the menu looks pretty.


It's more than looks. The latest E* GUI is just more functional. It's faster and shows more programming at once which makes it much easier to get an overview of available programming. My biggest pet peeve with D* has always been the limited hours in the guide (although the dated look doesn't help matters).


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## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

icr2002 said:


> Dish annouced an 8 tuner dvr. Wheres Direct tvs?!


More of a marketing ploy than a tech advance.

I rather have two Genies.


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## adamson (Nov 9, 2007)

WB4CS said:


> WB4CS, on 14 Mar 2014 - 1:44 PM, said:
> 
> I have to agree with this one. Who cares if the menu isn't pretty or super-duper animated? So what? When I'm watching TV, I'm watching the TV Program, I don't spend hours looking at my DVR menu.
> 
> In fact, I'd prefer a simple, text only guide and menu system. I don't need animated menus and a super graphical display just to browse through the guide data.


ditto.

Directv is not falling behind, no comparison to be had either. Other than the high price of service it is superior.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

jasondm4 said:


> I'm sorry but recording 8 shows at once just sounds ridiculous. I mean what % of consumers would actually take advantage of all that. Not many.


At the moment, I can record 24 shows at the same time. How's that for ridiculous? Of course, I've never done that, I can't even imagine doing that. The most I've ever recorded was 8 at a time and they were all the same program. That was unintentional.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

RAD said:


> I think probably every one might agree that the DIRECTV GUI does need a face lift. I know that DIRECTV wants to try to keep the user experience fairly consistent between all their platforms but I think that is holding back the Genie from what it can be changed into. Maybe DIRECTV just needs to wake up and say OK, the HR2X, H2X and SD receiver lines can look the same but Genie will get a 2014 looking interface.


I'll buy that. Let them wreck every Genie owner's life for 6 or 7 months while they figure out how to fix it once they introduce it. I shudder every time I think of what getting the HD Guide or the DLB fiasco was like. I have this vision of a committee of software engineers sitting around a table and deciding, "Hey, it _*almost*_ works, let's throw it out there and see how long it takes to fix."

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Curtis0620 said:


> I don't use a DVR for the GUI, I use it to record what I want, when I want. So the most important thing is the number of tuners. I don't care if the menu looks pretty.


I'd be happy with what we've got. All I ever wanted was something better than a VCR.

Rich


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

I can just see you running around the house doing that!!  Or switching units on your tablet/phone app! Gotta Love IT!! 

I think that is the idea behind the Genie/Mini and Hopper/Joey/SuperJoey. Make a single point of management that will fit most households, and in that I think both D* and E* are now at parity. With a Genie and a few Minis, you get 5 tuners in one unit so you can manage it from either itself or the minis. 

Dish missed the mark a bit with the Hopper, though PTAT made a big difference since the vast majority of homes would find that useful during prime time, but at other times the 3 tuner limit could get ugly. Now with the Super Joey, you have 5 tuners that are manageable from the Hopper/SuperJoey/Joey, and 6 if you stick an OTA module on the Hopper.

Great moves on both companies part! As they in fact have hit a very good sweet spot for the biggest percentage of households.

I still think that D* missed the perfect opportunity to change to a much better HDGUI with the introduction of the Genie, and there's not one thing anyone can say that would make me change my mind. Why have a 'new' thing that you make a big deal out of, look and operate exactly like the 'old' things? Doesn't make sense to me!


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Rich said:


> I'll buy that. Let them wreck every Genie owner's life for 6 or 7 months while they figure out how to fix it once they introduce it. I shudder every time I think of what getting the HD Guide or the DLB fiasco was like. I have this vision of a committee of software engineers sitting around a table and deciding, "Hey, it _*almost*_ works, let's throw it out there and see how long it takes to fix."
> 
> Rich


And given D*'s rather long history of seemingly doing just that, it is a consideration. To me it says a lot about the programmers/engineers abilities.


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

Theres four things I want to see added to the Genie:

LIST>LIST shortcut to the Manage Recordings screen.

The DASH button made into a one button on/off PIP toggle.

The RED button made into a stop button on the RC71 remotes.

A new HD guide layout with more hours shown at once.


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## HinterXGames (Dec 20, 2012)

TheRatPatrol said:


> Theres four things I want to see added to the Genie:
> 
> LIST>LIST shortcut to the Manage Recordings screen.
> 
> ...


Ah, see, i would absolutely /hate/ suggestion one. The list button is meant to be a shortcut to the playlist. I'd hate for it to lose that direct to playlist functionality. Not to mention I could imagine the disasters that would occur when people not affluent in the technical side, being taken to their settings constantly when using that button and messing around with things.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

yep DirecTV has to be careful when assigning additional functions to one button, not everybody is so affluent using these remotes 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

lparsons21 said:


> I still think that D* missed the perfect opportunity to change to a much better HDGUI with the introduction of the Genie, and there's not one thing anyone can say that would make me change my mind. Why have a 'new' thing that you make a big deal out of, look and operate exactly like the 'old' things? Doesn't make sense to me!


I don't understand why people want something to look new for the sake of looking new. Where is the lack of functionality that a "much better" HDGUI could address that you believe cannot possibly be fixed via changes to the current GUI? Or do you just want eye candy with cool fade effects that you'll get tired of in a year and be ready for another change?

They "made a big deal" out of the Genie not for its appearance or GUI, but because of its capabilities - 5 tuners instead of 2, along with the ability to serve clients / RVU TVs. When you're buying a car, would you choose the car that has a fancy touchscreen interface to the climate control, or choose the one that has enough room for your whole family?

If Directv was willing/able to give people a configuration option like Tivo does, then they could introduce a new GUI and let the early adopters decide to switch to it and suffer and while those who want things to "just work" can stick with the tried and true, it wouldn't be such a big deal. But giving the Genie a new GUI without a choice would doom all Genie users to suffer for months for the sake of a minority who think there's something wrong with the current interface.

If you want a new GUI, maybe the 4K capable receivers, when they're introduced, will get something different than the current batch of HD receivers, since they'll have far more CPU/graphics power at their disposal.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

I'm glad you brought up a car analogy, since I recently went through buying a new, not needed car. I say not needed 'cause I don't drive enough to wear one out.

So I've been watching the VW ads for the TDI Jettas and Passats. Drove a Jetta, really nice drive, but once you sit down inside it is just 'blah'. Austere is what the more flowery reviewers call it, I call it plain boring. For about a $25K sticker price, you could own one.

Then I drove a Buick Verano. Same sticker, drives as well if not slightly better and has an interior that is very eye appealing and functional. And at the same sticker, the Verano had many more accessories that have value. Wasn't even hard to figure out which was better and a better value! Bought the Verano!

Both would go from point a to b just fine, both would cost the same in fuel even though the TDI gets about 10mpg more because of the cost differential of the fuel. And with the TDI diesel, VW made some design decisions that make visiting the service center a more oft occurring event. And both had about the same amount of room.

The point is, you don't have to be the same-old same-old that D* has been using for years at the UI just slightly gussied up as they did, you could have something that is very useful and very good looking. In this day and age there is no excuse for not having both in anything to do with tech.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

slice1900 said:


> If Directv was willing/able to give people a configuration option like Tivo does, then they could introduce a new GUI and let the early adopters decide to switch to it and suffer and while those who want things to "just work" can stick with the tried and true, it wouldn't be such a big deal. But giving the Genie a new GUI without a choice would doom all Genie users to suffer for months for the sake of a minority who think there's something wrong with the current interface.
> 
> If you want a new GUI, maybe the 4K capable receivers, when they're introduced, will get something different than the current batch of HD receivers, since they'll have far more CPU/graphics power at their disposal.


Since I had a Hopper, I know that it is very possible to have an excellent HDGUI that works fast and was very non-problematic at the outset. It can be done, E* proved it. No it wasn't perfect, but as new things go it certainly was nearly so. And the customer base welcomed the big change in how things work with open arms. Amazingly few complaints for such a huge change.

If D* cannot do that, then you have to think the programmers/software designers are not so good. Or possibly that D*'s design is as minimal as they can get away with in hardware. Both of which are pretty damning for a company the size of D*.


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

HinterXGames said:


> Ah, see, i would absolutely /hate/ suggestion one. The list button is meant to be a shortcut to the playlist. I'd hate for it to lose that direct to playlist functionality. Not to mention I could imagine the disasters that would occur when people not affluent in the technical side, being taken to their settings constantly when using that button and messing around with things.





peds48 said:


> yep DirecTV has to be careful when assigning additional functions to one button, not everybody is so affluent using these remotes
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


GUIDE>GUIDE takes to you the guide filter screen, why couldn't LIST>LIST take you to the Manage Recording screen? They are "lists" too.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

lparsons21 said:


> Since I had a Hopper, I know that it is very possible to have an excellent HDGUI that works fast and was very non-problematic at the outset. It can be done, E* proved it. No it wasn't perfect, but as new things go it certainly was nearly so. And the customer base welcomed the big change in how things work with open arms. Amazingly few complaints for such a huge change.
> 
> If D* cannot do that, then you have to think the programmers/software designers are not so good. Or possibly that D*'s design is as minimal as they can get away with in hardware. Both of which are pretty damning for a company the size of D*.


A slow interface isn't going to improve by going to a new interface on the Genie. More likely the Genie would be even slower because the programmers wouldn't have to worry about how well it would work on old slow hardware like the HR20 and H21. They could certainly add more bells and whistles to the Genie GUI if they had redone it for that model, since it has more power, more RAM, more flash than any of the previous receivers/DVRs, but bells and whistles aren't free, especially if programmers are given the mandate to add eye candy over performance to impress people who equate eye candy and useless "features" like playing Youtube videos with it being more advanced.

You won't see any defense of Directv's software engineering from me, the GUI performance stinks in my opinion. The H20 is abominably slow, and the H24 isn't much better since it is dragged down by the HD GUI. I don't have any DVRs myself, but I've played some with a friend's HR44 and I'm astonished that many people in this forum regard it as "blazingly fast". They are clearly living in a bubble and not exposed to very much non-Directv equipment to believe that. Despite undoubtedly having much faster hardware than the H24, the HR44 seems to have no measurable performance improvement over it (though I couldn't compare them side to side) After seeing the HR44 in action I find it much harder to complain so much about my Tivo Premiere 

I'm not saying a new interface would be a bad idea, but targeting it at only the Genie will make performance problems worse, not better unless Directv replaces its software engineering staff and/or their managers.

Human interface guidelines for GUI design state that ideally you want response time to be kept under 100 ms. If you keep below that, you don't have to do anything special to let the user know their input has been acknowledged, because it is "instantaneous" as far as we're concerned. Any slower than 100 ms and the delay is perceptible to users.

Go over 1 second and the delay becomes annoying and aggravating to most, like being stuck behind someone traveling 10 mph under the speed limit. The fact you can't do even the simplest tasks, like typing in channel numbers, and consistently see the result on the screen in less than one second (let alone 0.1 seconds, they're miles away from that) is why Directv receivers/DVRs can be so frustrating to operate.


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## FLWingNut (Nov 19, 2005)

I have three DVRs, an HD receiver on Whole Home. Would like an integrated To Do List and Series Manager so I can manage everything from any box.


Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

FLWingNut said:


> I have three DVRs, an HD receiver on Whole Home. Would like an integrated To Do List and Series Manager so I can manage everything from any box.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk


It has been here for a long time now, is called the Genie and mini Genies


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

TheRatPatrol said:


> GUIDE>GUIDE takes to you the guide filter screen, why couldn't LIST>LIST take you to the Manage Recording screen? They are "lists" too.


Because the is a "purpose" for the filters, albeit small. not too many folks go to the list often.


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

peds48 said:


> Because the is a "purpose" for the filters, albeit small. not too many folks go to the list often.


I guess it depends on who you talk to. I never use the guide filter. I check my lists daily though.


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## FLWingNut (Nov 19, 2005)

peds48 said:


> It has been here for a long time now, is called the Genie and mini Genies


I'm aware of the Genie but that is not what I asked for. I have six recordable tuners and 1 receiver. Why lose two tuners for a Genie? I want an integrated To Do List and Series Manager.

Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

FLWingNut said:


> I'm aware of the Genie but that is not what I asked for. I have six recordable tuners and 1 receiver. Why lose two tuners for a Genie? I want an integrated To Do List and Series Manager.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk


Well, this is DirecTV's way to do what you are asking for. So what you asked is available


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## wilbur_the_goose (Aug 16, 2006)

Personal experience with the menu/GUI.

I have FiOS too. Their GUI looks 10x better than D*. 
I have D* too. Their GUI WORKS 10x better than FiOS.

Give me the one that works better every time!


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

I've had E* and the Hopper is both fast and much better looking

So why not have both?


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

lparsons21 said:


> I can just see you running around the house doing that!!  Or switching units on your tablet/phone app! Gotta Love IT!!
> 
> I think that is the idea behind the Genie/Mini and Hopper/Joey/SuperJoey. Make a single point of management that will fit most households, and in that I think both D* and E* are now at parity. With a Genie and a few Minis, you get 5 tuners in one unit so you can manage it from either itself or the minis.
> 
> ...


Actually, I don't have to program that many shows. I don't watch movies on D* at all, I'd rather use NF, so once I get all the new shows programmed in the fall each year it's just a matter of adding the odd new show that pops up.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

lparsons21 said:


> And given D*'s rather long history of seemingly doing just that, it is a consideration. To me it says a lot about the programmers/engineers abilities.


I keep saying we shouldn't ignore past history when we are wishing for new things. But, all my DVRs are running well and we're due for something new that will eat up 6 or 7 months of our lives while the...whatever they are try to figure out how to make it work.

Rich


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

I kinda think the feedback system that D* employs to tell them if they are on the right track when it comes to programming the units is too much fanboism and not enough critical feedback for whatever reasoning. That results in great reviews of practically anything that D* brings out, but the reviews are fluff with little actual meat to them.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

lparsons21 said:


> I kinda think the feedback system that D* employs to tell them if they are on the right track when it comes to programming the units is too much fanboism and not enough critical feedback for whatever reasoning. That results in great reviews of practically anything that D* brings out, but the reviews are fluff with little actual meat to them.


Guess you don't participate in the CE program. I know we are more then happy as a group when we think that DIRECTV has blown something and needs to fix it. Problem is that many times DIRECTV doesn't listen to us, they know what's best when it comes to new features. They do listen to us though when it comes to bugs, just that the priority we'd like to see assigned to a bug usually isn't the same as what DIRECTV assigns to it.

Sent from my iPad using DBSTalk


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

HoTat2 said:


> And ironically it (the Hopper-Super Joey combo) is actually a degradation in recording capacity of one less tuner than a two Hopper installation, since the streaming requirement of up to two programming channels by the SJ to its parent Hopper heavily taxes the bandwidth of their MoCA network such that a max. of only one Hopper and SJ can be used in a customer installation.


If you value the idea that you can schedule recordings from any box in the system (a big sticking point with DIRECTV whole home systems involving HR2x boxen), it is an improvement. The Hopper-Hopper system doesn't support collaborative scheduling yet.

Of course this only works in an environment that values tuners over TVs served.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

slice1900 said:


> I don't understand why people want something to look new for the sake of looking new. Where is the lack of functionality that a "much better" HDGUI could address that you believe cannot possibly be fixed via changes to the current GUI?


The primary drive for users behind an HD GUI was the idea that you could view more than 90 minutes of programming in the grid. Of all the flashy stuff the HD GUI brought, the grid effectively didn't change.

If function over flash is the cry, the HD GUI didn't deliver where it counted.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

RAD said:


> Guess you don't participate in the CE program. I know we are more then happy as a group when we think that DIRECTV has blown something and needs to fix it. Problem is that many times DIRECTV doesn't listen to us, they know what's best when it comes to new features. They do listen to us though when it comes to bugs, just that the priority we'd like to see assigned to a bug usually isn't the same as what DIRECTV assigns to it.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using DBSTalk


No I don't. These days because I only have one Genie and nothing else, in the past because it didn't seemed to me similar to other beta programs that I did participate in, which really wanted confirmation and not critical review/testing/feedback.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

harsh said:


> The primary drive for users behind an HD GUI was the idea that you could view more than 90 minutes of programming in the grid. Of all the flashy stuff the HD GUI brought, the grid effectively didn't change.
> 
> If function over flash is the cry, the HD GUI didn't deliver where it counted.


While I'm not sure I agree that it was the primary reason, it sure was a reasonable expectation. And one that didn't get met at all. Same old guide that's been there for years overall. Lots of smoke and mirrors as it rolled out, but in the end it was nothing to write home to mom about, nor should it take that long to do so little.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

harsh said:


> The primary drive for users behind an HD GUI was the idea that you could view more than 90 minutes of programming in the grid. Of all the flashy stuff the HD GUI brought, the grid effectively didn't change.
> 
> If function over flash is the cry, the HD GUI didn't deliver where it counted.


If that's an unmet need of the current HD GUI, it hardly requires a new GUI as was suggested - and certainly not one that is Genie only (why should only Genie users get to see more minutes of programming in the guide?) It could be fixed on all HDGUI capable receivers if Directv had a mind to do so. If they think people don't like change, it could be a configuration option where it defaults to 90 minutes and there's an option to show 3 hours.

Tivo has two possible "views" for their guide. One that is a typical grid style guide that shows 120 minutes of programming (so not much better than Directv's 90 minutes) and the other "Live Guide" shows 8 channels and the program currently playing on the left, and the next 8 shows on the topmost channel on the right. I never use their grid guide, I always use the Live Guide. I can see what is on right now quickly and easily (and hit the FF forward to jump ahead a half hour at a time to see what is coming up later on all channels) as well as seeing what is playing anywhere from 4 hours to a day (depending on program length) on whatever channel I have on top. Its the best guide I've seen anywhere. I wonder if Tivo has it patented or something, that's the only reason I can think why I've never seen it elsewhere and everyone else uses the horrible grid style guide.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

lparsons21 said:


> No I don't. These days because I only have one Genie and nothing else, in the past because it didn't seemed to me similar to other beta programs that I did participate in, which really wanted confirmation and not critical review/testing/feedback.


DIRECTV does want the feedback, critical or otherwise. The problem that myself, and others, is that it mostly is a one sided conversation, we make our posts and usually never hear anything back. But that doesn't mean that they aren't listening, just not talking. But sometimes there is two way dialog, a few times I've had direct conversations with engineers or management at DIRECTV based on something posted here. That said I do wish there was more two way conversation between the CE folks and the engineers.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Next time they call say " there's this idiot Lloyd on our forum that thinks you need to do a complete revamp of the UI " !!!


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

RAD said:


> DIRECTV does want the feedback, critical or otherwise. The problem that myself, and others, is that it mostly is a one sided conversation, we make our posts and usually never hear anything back. But that doesn't mean that they aren't listening, just not talking. But sometimes there is two way dialog, a few times I've had direct conversations with engineers or management at DIRECTV based on something posted here. That said I do wish there was more two way conversation between the CE folks and the engineers.


I'm not surprised there isn't. The participants are hardly a cross section of Directv's customers - half of whom are completely unaffected by what happens there since they don't even have HD equipment! Directv probably doesn't want their engineers to have a misunderstanding of the level of demand for stuff like multiple Genies on an account


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## Jason Whiddon (Aug 17, 2006)

RAD said:


> DIRECTV does want the feedback, critical or otherwise. The problem that myself, and others, is that it mostly is a one sided conversation, we make our posts and usually never hear anything back. But that doesn't mean that they aren't listening, just not talking. But sometimes there is two way dialog, a few times I've had direct conversations with engineers or management at DIRECTV based on something posted here. That said I do wish there was more two way conversation between the CE folks and the engineers.


Thats the problem I see. Using the HR34 release for example, they were more concerned about getting it on the HD gui and giving it youtube when it did not even handle its responsibilities as a "DVR" properly. Priorities man, priorities...


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

lparsons21 said:


> I kinda think the feedback system that D* employs to tell them if they are on the right track when it comes to programming the units is too much fanboism and not enough critical feedback for whatever reasoning. That results in great reviews of practically anything that D* brings out, but the reviews are fluff with little actual meat to them.


Actually that's the opposite of the problem. They use focus groups and ask them if what they have is ok and other things and they get the answers they want an run with it. Most non tech people will say its fine leave it alone for fear of change. They can't envision a different GUI and how it would work without actually see it.

And I am sure plenty of people find less is more for ease of use. Which is fine when discussing if you should have channel numbers and logos in the guide. It's not ok for the amount of time an channels in the guide. But their focus groups don't agree with us because they just don't know. I don't like focus groups in general for choosing how to make something.

Every time we suggest things like more lines in the guide they say we are to tech to understand why they don't.

Until they get a visionary instead of a follower in charge of the course of their GUI we are stuck unfortunately, I believe.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Too bad! Some changes are long overdue, and guide width has to be up the list quite high. Anyone that has had the 3 hour window in whatever other system they've seen, knows and misses how handy that is.

If anything E* has shown that you can make a dramatic change to the UI and have it welcomed. There were so few complaints when the Hopper/Joeys started shipping and that surprised me quite a bit. I had really thought there would be some push-back because of the total changeover.


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## fireponcoal (Sep 26, 2009)

wilbur_the_goose said:


> Personal experience with the menu/GUI.
> 
> I have FiOS too. Their GUI looks 10x better than D*.
> I have D* too. Their GUI WORKS 10x better than FiOS.
> ...


My sentiments exactly.. Busy(Fios) doesn't mean Better(DirecTV).


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Jason Whiddon said:


> Thats the problem I see. Using the HR34 release for example, they were more concerned about getting it on the HD gui and giving it youtube when it did not even handle its responsibilities as a "DVR" properly. Priorities man, priorities...


FWIW, this isn't unique to Directv. I am fearful of every big update to my Tivo (there are usually two such big updates a year) because I know that whenever they fix one of my big "pain point" bugs it always seems to be traded for a new bug that pops up that is equally annoying. New bugs in basic functionality "as a DVR" are inexcusable, it should be easy to test. They seem to have no shortage of time to add useless crap like a redesigned Youtube app (honestly, how many damn devices does one need in a home able to view Youtube videos....I think I need to do it on my fridge next :nono2: ) and leave those basic bugs unfixed for months or sometimes even years.

For example, for several release cycles if you started watching a program while it was still recording, and watched something else for a bit, when you returned to that recording program, it would often lose your place and start back from the beginning. They finally fixed that in the last update, but added a new bug that manifests when you adjust the time of a season pass recording (causing it to record that program twice, taking up an extra tuner) I sure hope the upcoming update fixes that, but I'm fearful of what new thing they will break :bang Maybe they're just trying to get me to upgrade from my 2 tuner model to one of the new Roamios with 4 or 6 tuners - but until they make a way to transfer all of my settings over, I'm sticking with my Premiere. I would have upgraded on day one if they had, but if they never do, I'll use it until it dies.

It sounds like you play the same games with stupid software bugs on Directv's DVRs, even on the NR cycle. Hell, I see stupid bugs added and removed now and then on my receivers, and if I can see them with my usage model I cannot see how they wouldn't have been noticed on day one. So I can only imagine what you endure with their DVRs that have far more complicated usage.

As for new products, given how new products from almost every company (with Apple being about the only CE company I can think of an exception) seem to be alpha releases, or beta quality at best, I think they figure time to market matters more than release quality and they can always fix the issues by treating their early adopters as alpha/beta testers. One would think Directv has an advantage over some other companies by having a built in group of technically knowledgeable customers shaking out the bugs in new products before they're seen by the public, but I imagine there is still pressure to "release" before they should.


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

inkahauts said:


> Actually that's the opposite of the problem. They use focus groups and ask them if what they have is ok and other things and they get the answers they want an run with it. Most non tech people will say its fine leave it alone for fear of change. They can't envision a different GUI and how it would work without actually see it.
> And I am sure plenty of people find less is more for ease of use. Which is fine when discussing if you should have channel numbers and logos in the guide. It's not ok for the amount of time an channels in the guide. But their focus groups don't agree with us because they just don't know. I don't like focus groups in general for choosing how to make something.
> Every time we suggest things like more lines in the guide they say we are to tech to understand why they don't.
> Until they get a visionary instead of a follower in charge of the course of their GUI we are stuck unfortunately, I believe.


Well they obviously didn't ask any of us.


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## Jason Whiddon (Aug 17, 2006)

I'll give TiVo one thing, they have done a great job with my Roamio, and the head tech person actually posts on tivo community regularly.


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## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

Would like the Genie do PIP with local live & *remote* recording.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

lparsons21 said:


> So why not have both?


Functionality first. 

How much time does one spend in the GUI? I'd rather watch the content - so I wouldn't make the lack of a HD GUI a deal breaker ... but having one adds to the overall subscriber experience.


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## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

harsh said:


> The primary drive for users behind an HD GUI was the idea that you could view more than 90 minutes of programming in the grid. Of all the flashy stuff the HD GUI brought, the grid effectively didn't change.
> 
> If function over flash is the cry, the HD GUI didn't deliver where it counted.





lparsons21 said:


> I kinda think the feedback system that D* employs to tell them if they are on the right track when it comes to programming the units is too much fanboism and not enough critical feedback for whatever reasoning. That results in great reviews of practically anything that D* brings out, but the reviews are fluff with little actual meat to them.


All the HD guide conversion did was create a screen that was clearer. And that was it. Oh almost forgot, they replace some text menu headers with a few graphic icons which probably was the reason for the excessive slow rollout of the HD GUI. Apparently someone thought a graphic with texts is more confusing the just then just plain text to the average DirecTV customer.

And the fanbase here gave its huge roar of approval at this 'great' achievement.

What the Satellite/TV industry needs is more companies in order to get DirecTV & Dish out of 1st gear. Without more competition, don't expect any real change.


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## mrdobolina (Aug 28, 2006)

lparsons21 said:


> Too bad! Some changes are long overdue, and guide width has to be up the list quite high. Anyone that has had the 3 hour window in whatever other system they've seen, knows and misses how handy that is.


I totally disagree with the statement about "Anyone that has had the 3 hour window..." I despise DISH's guide every time I have to suffer through it at my parents' house. It is so BUSY that I can barely look at it long enough to find a show that I want to watch. When there are multiple half hour shows in a row, the title of the show is always cut off just at the point that you can't possibly figure out what the show is, so you have to arrow over to that particular time slot to see what the show actually is. Mind you, this is on older equipment (HD DVR, but not the Hopper), but I just googled an image of the Hopper GUI and I had to look away quickly because it still seemed too busy to me.

And don't get me started on the DISH remote! I hate that thing! (But maybe that's another discussion.)

With all of that said, I don't think it would be a big deal if DIRECTV added another half hour to the guide. Most half hour shows' titles currently have more than enough space to show fully, and to me that's the important thing.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

mrdobolina said:


> Mind you, this is on older equipment (HD DVR, but not the Hopper), but I just googled an image of the Hopper GUI and I had to look away quickly because it still seemed too busy to me.


On the older HD receivers one can choose between three options for how many hours are shown ... but yes, the Hopper was designed based on everyone having a HD set so there is no fallback to a bigger font for less resolute screens. I've learned to accept it - although on the Joeys (which are more likely to be SD TVs in other rooms) I would really appreciate a SD scaled menu system. I suppose the satellite providers assume we have large enough HD screens in every room of our house ... but that isn't easy after paying our increasing satellite bills each month.


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## fleckrj (Sep 4, 2009)

lparsons21 said:


> Why have a 'new' thing that you make a big deal out of, look and operate exactly like the 'old' things? Doesn't make sense to me!


Why? It is easy to understand. There are more people out there who are not tech savy than who are. Most people would not make the switch if they had to learn a new way of using the system. All they want to do is record some programs and watch TV. They do not want to have to learn how to use a new menu just because a new model DVR is released, and they would especially resent it if some TVs in their house had one menu and others had a different menu.

Personally, I would prefer an all-text menu without any icons or graphics. Function is far more important than form.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

If what you are saying were true, the Hopper/Joey would have fallen on its sword about day 2 after release, yet it didn't. Instead it was welcomed with open arms!

If nothing else, I've learned in this thread that you D* fanbois are a bunch of Luddites!!  I'm the old geezer at 70 and should be the one pooh-poohing the idea of change!!


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Drucifer said:


> All the HD guide conversion did was create a screen that was clearer. And that was it.


Sorry to have to disagree with you publicly but there's so much more to the new guide that you haven't seen yet. It did introduce icons as well as the My DIRECTV function which has been massively popular with customers, and the under-the-hood aspects of it set the stage for much more important improvements that are still to come.

To dismiss this as "simply" changing colors or fonts would be a mistake.


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## fleckrj (Sep 4, 2009)

I am not far behind you at 62, but I still prefer DOS to Windows, and I have not liked anything from Apple since the Apple IIe. I want to tell the system what to do. I do not want it telling me what to do or trying to anticipate what I want. Why, for example, is time, effort and processing capacity wasted on having the UI give me suggestions for what to watch based, apparently, on my previous viewing or recording habits? Whatever resource was used to add that feature was totally wasted. Also, why do so many people on this forum complain about the missing channel logos in the banner. I only look at the banner to tell me what the program is about, and whether it is new or a rerun. I can read the letters that represent the channel. The logo is just wasted space.

That said, I have no problem with change, but you and I are not the average user. The vast majority of the users do not like change. Why do you think that when you get into a car, regardless of make or model, the accelorator, brake, and if present, clutch are always in the same place? Not only that, but why is the turn signal is always on the same side of the steering wheel? It is because most people do not want to have to re-learn everything just because they upgraded.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Stuart Sweet said:


> and the under-the-hood aspects of it set the stage for much more important improvements that are still to come.
> 
> To dismiss this as "simply" changing colors or fonts would be a mistake.


only if I knew what you know I would be a happy camper.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Sorry to have to disagree with you publicly but there's so much more to the new guide that you haven't seen yet. It did introduce icons as well as the My DIRECTV function which has been massively popular with customers, and the under-the-hood aspects of it set the stage for much more important improvements that are still to come.
> 
> To dismiss this as "simply" changing colors or fonts would be a mistake.


Not to pooh-pooh your post, but I'll have to see it to believe it!! From a purely technical standpoint with the UI, D* has been behind the curve for a very long time. And it seems when they decide to climb higher up on the curve, it takes forever to get done, and then it is buggy and slows the machines down. That's what history tells us.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

fleckrj said:


> I am not far behind you at 62, but I still prefer DOS to Windows, and I have not liked anything from Apple since the Apple IIe. I want to tell the system what to do. I do not want it telling me what to do or trying to anticipate what I want. Why, for example, is time, effort and processing capacity wasted on having the UI give me suggestions for what to watch based, apparently, on my previous viewing or recording habits? Whatever resource was used to add that feature was totally wasted. Also, why do so many people on this forum complain about the missing channel logos in the banner. I only look at the banner to tell me what the program is about, and whether it is new or a rerun. I can read the letters that represent the channel. The logo is just wasted space.
> 
> That said, I have no problem with change, but you and I are not the average user. The vast majority of the users do not like change. Why do you think that when you get into a car, regardless of make or model, the accelorator, brake, and if present, clutch are always in the same place? Not only that, but why is the turn signal is always on the same side of the steering wheel? It is because most people do not want to have to re-learn everything just because they upgraded.


How old is the car you are driving? 

I just bought a new Buick, and while the gas pedal, brake and turn signals are all in the same place, many/most other things have changed a huge amount. Now that turn signal lever has a slew of switches and dial, and there's another lever on the opposite side for the wipers. Not to mention the buttons on the steering wheel or the 7" LED/LCD touchscreen, backup camera and other goodies! And the center console is just a plethora of buttons and dials to fiddle with!

as to choice in computers, I have Macs and Windows boxes and love them all! And of course some android and iOS devices to play with too!


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

lparsons21 said:


> If what you are saying were true, the Hopper/Joey would have fallen on its sword about day 2 after release, yet it didn't. Instead it was welcomed with open arms!
> 
> If nothing else, I've learned in this thread that you D* fanbois are a bunch of Luddites!!  I'm the old geezer at 70 and should be the one pooh-poohing the idea of change!!


If you are that unhappy with, and the UI is this important to you, why did you come back to DIRECTV from Dish? Is it really worth saving a few dollars per month to be this unhappy with the UI? It's not like you didn't know what you were getting back into since this is basically the same UI you had with your prior stink with DIRECTV and you are here and at Satguys all the time.

As it's been mentioned, DIRECTV has decided they want an interface that is basically the same from the standard SD boxes to the Genie while Dish decided to go the other way with the Hopper. I'm just guessing that the UI isn't that much of a driving factor for the customers since DIRECTV has added more customers then Dish since the Genie and Hopper have come out.

Outside of the UI debate I do agree that there are a number of features that Dish has that I wish DIRECTV would add, such as PTAT and the external drive support, while I've seen Dish customers say they're a number of things they wish Dish had, like SWiM and the search capabilities.

Sent from my iPad using DBSTalk


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

The old 'take you old bone home' trick, huh? 

I'm with D* to save a few bucks for awhile, and I'm not unhappy with it, those are your words. My words have been why keep old things around and fiddle forever with them instead of replacing it with something a bit more modern. Quite a bit of difference.

If I have to dance the 'happy feet' dance to be with D* to make some here happy, well you're just gonna have to not be happy with me!


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

lparsons21 said:


> The old 'take you old bone home' trick, huh?
> 
> I'm with D* to save a few bucks for awhile, and I'm not unhappy with it, those are your words. My words have been why keep old things around and fiddle forever with them instead of replacing it with something a bit more modern. Quite a bit of difference.
> 
> If I have to dance the 'happy feet' dance to be with D* to make some here happy, well you're just gonna have to not be happy with me!


Sorry, though you weren't happy with DIRECTV because of how much importance you seem to have placed on the look of the UI.

Guess DIRECTV feels that they wanted to spend more resources on other things, like the Genie recommends, Sports, UI and mobile app functions such as voice search and adding GenieGo support into the iPad app. To me I'd rather have more functionality then just trying to make things look pretty.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

No I'm not unhappy with D*, but that doesn't prevent me from also thinking that they could do better in some areas. Same for practically any company. And there are points in time that make the most sense to do it. I propose that the time for D* to have done it was with the Genie. New name, why not have a new look? And of course, not give up functionality.

And I understand your take on it. I want both and it should be doable on the latest gear if not the older gear.

From my perspective I like to see new things from companies that take advantage of the newness of the gear and also gives them some great marketing points. The Hopper/Joey opened up a slew of really great ads with theirs. Very innovative, similar to the idea I loved when D* used the mini-animals, love them!!


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

Remember when they renamed the HR34 Home Media Center to Genie it was when they introduced the TV Show recommends, so it was tied to a change in functionality. 

As for commercials, DIRECTV has really never did that much when it comes to pushing their technology, as close as they come is to say they can record 5 shows at once. Is that the right way to go, again that decision goes to the folks with the corner office, but guess it's working since they keep adding subs. Personally I wish DIRECTV had done ads, with Samsung, showing RVU TV's no hidden receiver or Nomad/GenieGo, show someone watching their favorite TV show while at 36,000 feet with no internet for examples.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

fleckrj said:


> Why? It is easy to understand. There are more people out there who are not tech savy than who are. Most people would not make the switch if they had to learn a new way of using the system. _*All they want to do is record some programs and watch TV.*_ They do not want to have to learn how to use a new menu just because a new model DVR is released, and they would especially resent it if some TVs in their house had one menu and others had a different menu.
> 
> Personally, I would prefer an all-text menu without any icons or graphics. Function is far more important than form.


There you go! Just make us a good DVR and let the money roll in. That's all I wanted 12 years ago, a good DVR that worked better than a VCR and had better PQ. I was perfectly happy with the old guide. I'm pretty satisfied with what I have now, too. I agree with you about the all-text menu, too, but I can't help but worry about how much trouble that would cause to implement.

Rich


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Yeah I remember that. Still haven't figured out why that was considered such a big deal.

But both D* and E* are selling essentially the same thing they started selling all those years ago, and something needs to 'freshen' that product in the mind of the consumer. Now that we are seeing the cost of pay TV go to the heights they are at, that might become much more important.


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## jdspencer (Nov 8, 2003)

zeus said:


> ...
> It's more than looks. The latest E* GUI is just more functional. It's faster and shows more programming at once which makes it much easier to get an overview of available programming. My biggest pet peeve with D* has always been the limited hours in the guide (although the dated look doesn't help matters).


This is my pet peeve as well. There's plenty of room on the page to put in at least two full hours, maybe three hours, of programming.
And another line or two as well.


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

lparsons21 said:


> The old 'take you old bone home' trick, huh?
> 
> _*I'm with D* to save a few bucks for awhile, *_and I'm not unhappy with it, those are your words. My words have been why keep old things around and fiddle forever with them instead of replacing it with something a bit more modern. Quite a bit of difference.
> 
> If I have to dance the 'happy feet' dance to be with D* to make some here happy, well you're just gonna have to not be happy with me!


So as soon as your commitment/price breaks end are you moving on to the next provider who will give you the best new subscriber discounts?


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Maybe. Who knows? I look at what the offer is and decide at that time what is solely in my best interest. It is about total value, and since I see D* and E* as just different sides of the same coin it is a pretty easy decision to come to.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

lparsons21 said:


> I just bought a new Buick, and while the gas pedal, brake and turn signals are all in the same place, many/most other things have changed a huge amount. Now that turn signal lever has a slew of switches and dial, and there's another lever on the opposite side for the wipers. Not to mention the buttons on the steering wheel or the 7" LED/LCD touchscreen, backup camera and other goodies! And the center console is just a plethora of buttons and dials to fiddle with!


And why exactly is having "a plethora of buttons and dials to fiddle with" a good thing? That's a terrible thing, because it distracts drivers who want to adjust something they aren't familiar with. Good design gives you access to a lot of functionality without giving you a million knobs to turn, and does as much as possible for you so you don't have to worry about it. You're supposed to be driving, not fiddling with buttons and trying to remember how to turn on your fog lights while you're doing 70 mph.

Let's take wipers for instance. In cars from before I was born you had a wiper/washer control, simple on/off. Then they added multiple speeds, then they added interval wipers where you could vary the speed. But when do you turn on the wipers? When it is raining or your windshield is otherwise wet, or when it is dirty and you want to wash it. Rain sensing wipers with a single button to push for "wash" is a far better design, because it does what you need without providing a lot of unnecessary controls. What reason is there for running your wipers at maximum speed when it is misting, or running them at 10 second intervals during a downpour? If the sensing and what it does works properly (and it doesn't on all vehicles, I know) you never need to adjust the speed because it is done automatically for you.

Likewise, is a radio with buttons/dials for stuff like tone and balance really necessary? These are things you set once to your preference and never mess with again. That functionality can be well hidden (like hold down the on/off button for the radio for five seconds to pop up a menu to adjust that stuff) because you aren't (or at least shouldn't) adjust that stuff while you're driving.

You can do the same with climate control and all sorts of other stuff. A car with a ton of buttons to mess with is bad design, plain and simple. Good design would allow it to do what you want with no or minimal messing around. Every car these days is able to remember the settings of different drivers so stuff like seat adjustment doesn't need all those buttons on the side, that too can (and should) be well hidden because people should never be adjusting their seats while the car is moving.

Not saying that the BWM 7 series with the little dial on the center console is good design though - they traded a lot of buttons and dials for a single one that loads a ton of functionality into something no one is going to remember how to adjust without looking the screen, which is not a good thing barreling down the highway...


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## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Sorry to have to disagree with you publicly but there's so much more to the new guide that you haven't seen yet. It did introduce icons as well as the My DIRECTV function which has been massively popular with customers, and the under-the-hood aspects of it *set the stage for much more important improvements that are still to come*.
> 
> To dismiss this as "simply" changing colors or fonts would be a mistake.


As they say, until it is here, those are vaporware changes.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Sorry to have to disagree with you publicly but there's so much more to the new guide that you haven't seen yet. It did introduce icons as well as the My DIRECTV function which has been massively popular with customers, and the under-the-hood aspects of it set the stage for much more important improvements that are still to come.
> 
> To dismiss this as "simply" changing colors or fonts would be a mistake.


Considering that kind of progression has happened a number of times in the past, it would be no surprise to see this unfold in a similar manner. It would seem somewhat obvious that some cosmetic changes may ultimately set the table for more comprehensive ones.

What you say makes perfect sense and has been executed in the past more than once.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Considering that kind of progression has happened a number of times in the past, it would be no surprise to see this unfold in a similar manner. It would seem somewhat obvious that some cosmetic changes may ultimately set the table for more comprehensive ones.
> 
> What you say makes perfect sense and has been executed in the past more than once.


From a software development standpoint it makes sense to phase in changes piece by piece, to make sure they don't break other stuff, before "flipping the switch" to enable whatever technology they're setting the stage for. It also allows the engineers to test the pieces they're adding one by one (before the CE people get their hands on it)

The alternative is to dump a big change on people all at once, and when bugs appear having a much more difficult time figuring out exactly what part of the big change is causing a given bug.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

slice1900 said:


> From a software development standpoint it makes sense to phase in changes piece by piece, to make sure they don't break other stuff, before "flipping the switch" to enable whatever technology they're setting the stage for. It also allows the engineers to test the pieces they're adding one by one (before the CE people get their hands on it)
> 
> The alternative is to dump a big change on people all at once, and when bugs appear having a much more difficult time figuring out exactly what part of the big change is causing a given bug.


Agree....the risk of the "big bang" for something new is exponentially higher, in contrast to incremental change(s).


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Does anyone know where Directv's software engineers are located? Are they in the US or overseas? If the latter, it would be kinda difficult for them to do much testing. I'm sure they could have a way of simulating the signal input to test stuff, but it wouldn't be nearly as good as if they were in the US and could actually use Directv hardware at home and be able to do some real world testing.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

slice1900 said:


> Does anyone know where Directv's software engineers are located? Are they in the US or overseas? If the latter, it would be kinda difficult for them to do much testing. I'm sure they could have a way of simulating the signal input to test stuff, but it wouldn't be nearly as good as if they were in the US and could actually use Directv hardware at home and be able to do some real world testing.


DirecTV has domestic-based engineering staff that executes various hardware/lab testing regularly. Those resources also have DirecTV hardware available for home use and testing as well.


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## acostapimps (Nov 6, 2011)

Hopper(3 tuners) 6 at once only during primetime hours, 1 tuner = 4 Network recordings CBS,NBC,ABC,FOX, and 2 anytime recordings on remaining 2 tuners 

Super Joey(2 tuners) is just 2 anytime recordings That's where they got the 8 recordings at once but not 8 tuner dvr, Only way to do that is 2 Hoppers and 1 Super Joey 3+3+2=8


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

acostapimps said:


> Hopper(3 tuners) 6 at once only during primetime hours,


Correction: The four major network locals (ABC, CBS, FOX, NBC) share a tuner 24/7. Probably not as important outside of prime time hours - but one can (for example) record Fallon, Kimmel, Leno and Arsenio all at the same time on one tuner. The sharing is NOT only during primetime hours.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

James Long said:


> Correction: The four major network locals (ABC, CBS, FOX, NBC) share a tuner 24/7. Probably not as important outside of prime time hours - but one can (for example) record Fallon, Kimmel, Leno and Arsenio all at the same time on one tuner. The sharing is NOT only during primetime hours.


so if I want to record ONLY Survivor, sol I have to record red whole shebang?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

peds48 said:


> so if I want to record ONLY Survivor, sol I have to record red whole shebang?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No you don't. You can use PTAT which will record all 4 broadcast channels using one tuner OR you can choose to just record the one channel.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

wilbur_the_goose said:


> Personal experience with the menu/GUI.
> 
> I have FiOS too. Their GUI looks 10x better than D*.
> I have D* too. Their GUI WORKS 10x better than FiOS.
> ...


Amen. I hate the fios GUI. Very flashy. Very difficult to decipher at times.


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

acostapimps said:


> Hopper(3 tuners) 6 at once only during primetime hours, 1 tuner = 4 Network recordings CBS,NBC,ABC,FOX, and 2 anytime recordings on remaining 2 tuners
> 
> Super Joey(2 tuners) is just 2 anytime recordings That's where they got the 8 recordings at once but not 8 tuner dvr, Only way to do that is 2 Hoppers and 1 Super Joey 3+3+2=8


So a SJ is just a DVR with 2 tuners in it?

Wouldn't it be [4PTAT+2]+[3]+(2)=11 if you had two Hoppers and a SJ? [=Hopper] (=SJ)



lparsons21 said:


> No you don't. You can use PTAT which will record all 4 broadcast channels using one tuner OR you can choose to just record the one channel.


So if you don't record/watch all of the PT shows you really only have 3 tuners then, unless you do two Hoppers + SJ?

I still like the flexibility of D*, 15 recordable tuners on a SWIM 16 that can all see each other (Genie+5 DVR's).


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

The SJ is not a DVR at all, the DVRing is done at the Hopper. With the Hopper+SJ you get effectively 5 tuners to share with Genies. Note that you cannot have 2 Hoppers + SJ, or at least not yet.

For larger installs I would think D* still holds the edge with their mix of standard and client configurations. But realistically the majority of customers would be well served with a Genie+Mins or Hopper/Joey/SuperJoey.

When I had Dish, I had 2 Hoppers that essentially weren't used to share recordings as my son and I have very different ideas about what to watch. Never had an issue on the Hopper with recording conflicts.

After I switched to D* recently, I got a Genie (HR44) and a C41 mini since I knew my son was madly in love and wouldn't be living with me long. We had a few times where some priorities had to be shuffled around a bit, but nothing onerous.


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## acostapimps (Nov 6, 2011)

On the Hopper is essentially 3 recordings on 3 tuners, but when it's recording the big 4 local networks in 1 tuner, Plus the other two non network recordings on 2 tuners, is why Dish is marketing as 6 programs at once, for that 1 Hopper, And with 2 Hoppers is 12, But on the flip side if your not recording those locals than is just 3 recordings, 6 with 2 Hoppers, But regular Joey's have no tuners(Just like C31/41 for Directv) and is taking 1 tuner from the Hopper, Super Joey's do have 2 tuners but they're not DVR's but can set up timers and share recordings from the Hopper.


Sent from my iPad using DBSTalk


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

slice1900 said:


> Directv probably doesn't want their engineers to have a misunderstanding of the level of demand for stuff like multiple Genies on an account


This sounds like Marketing mindset. They believe that designers and engineers should only be allowed to see the Marketing version of the world. Reality is just too complex to work with.

If only the Marketing people did more than poll focus groups and the competition's press releases for their ideas.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> DirecTV has domestic-based engineering staff that executes various hardware/lab testing regularly. Those resources also have DirecTV hardware available for home use and testing as well.


Your statement reminds me of the very similar claim that DIRECTV CSRs are all US-based. Five will get you ten that they borrow some stuff from NDS once in a while at the very least.

I'm betting that it wasn't an engineer or a marketroid that conceived of the boolean search feature.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

I can't believe that this thread is getting so much attention. I guess constant repetition lures people in? I'm gone.

Rich


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

lparsons21 said:


> No you don't. You can use PTAT which will record all 4 broadcast channels using one tuner OR you can choose to just record the one channel.


You do not need to use PTAT to record more than one channel. Any time a Hopper user is recording one of the four PTAT channel the other three channels are available to record or watch (24/7). For example, right now I happen to be recording something from my local Fox affiliate - If I look at the TV activity screen that shows tuner status it shows the tuner I am actually watching, an available tuner, and the four major networks on tuner 3.

If the four major networks are popular in your home having those four channels available is handy. As usual, each person has their own viewing preferences.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Why doesn't Dish extend the PTAT stuff to other channels? If they put ESPN/ESPN2/ESPNU on the same transponder, having them able to record/watch with a single tuner would be very useful to sports fans.

If Directv had this, putting the NFLST channels across two transponders would allow them all to be watched/recorded with only two tuners. It seems very wasteful and limiting to have that only available for the four major networks, since every year the ratings show that fewer and fewer people watch any one of those networks during prime time, let alone want to watch/record more than one at once.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

slice1900 said:


> Why doesn't Dish extend the PTAT stuff to other channels? If they put ESPN/ESPN2/ESPNU on the same transponder, having them able to record/watch with a single tuner would be very useful to sports fans.


ESPN, ESPN2 and ESPNU are in different programming packages (or not available at all as they may be on DIRECTV as well) whereas the big four, where available, are part of all programming packages. It would be messy to explain to someone why they couldn't avail themselves of a feature because they didn't subscribe to a comprehensive enough programming package.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

harsh said:


> ESPN, ESPN2 and ESPNU are in different programming packages (or not available at all as they may be on DIRECTV as well) whereas the big four, where available, are part of all programming packages. It would be messy to explain to someone why they couldn't avail themselves of a feature because they didn't subscribe to a comprehensive enough programming package.


Because the programmers aren't smart enough to just put up a message when you tried to watch a recording of a channel you don't get that you need to subscribe to watch the programming?


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

tonyd79 said:


> Because the programmers aren't smart enough to just put up a message when you tried to watch a recording of a channel you don't get that you need to subscribe to watch the programming?


DirecTV did change the way the receiver bahaves when one tunes to a channel that is not on our packages. It used to be that we would get a "banner" at the bottom of the screen with 721 "channel not subscribed" now there is a "nice" full screen display indicating what is really going on and the way to subscribe to that channel


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

harsh said:


> ESPN, ESPN2 and ESPNU are in different programming packages (or not available at all as they may be on DIRECTV as well) whereas the big four, where available, are part of all programming packages. It would be messy to explain to someone why they couldn't avail themselves of a feature because they didn't subscribe to a comprehensive enough programming package.


I was giving that as an example. What I'm saying is that since Dish has this capability, why not extend to it to any channels that share the same transponder? They'll have plenty of data about what people tend to record/watch at the same time, so they could even adjust transponder placing to maximize the usefulness of the feature (which ESPN was intended as an example for)

Having it only work for certain locals is rather limiting, and becomes less useful every year since fewer people watch network programming (let alone two things at once) Additionally, networks have followed cable's lead by repeating some shows later in the week, either on the same network or on a cable network.


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## Curtis0620 (Apr 22, 2002)

Or just give me enough tuners to pick what I want.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Here in NY's Westchester County, my son just moved into a building where his only option was Cablevision. He signed up for their "multiroom DVR" service. He can record up to 10 shows at once and they're stored in the cloud, on Cablevision's servers. The clients are diskless Samsung boxes, but they allow you to pause LIVE TV for up to 15 minutes.

I haven't tried it yet, but one downside is they currently cap him at 75 hours of HD storage. That's up from 25 hours when they first rolled it out. Hopefully they will continue to increase the storage, or allow a customer to pay for more storage at some point in the future.

They charge $12/month for multiroom DVR and $7/month for each HD client box with remote. That's about the same that DIRECTV charges for a Genie and 3 clients, when you add in the DIRECTV HD and DVR charges.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Steve said:


> Here in NY's Westchester County, my son just moved into a building where his only option was Cablevision. He signed up for their "multiroom DVR" service. He can record up to 10 shows at once and they're stored in the cloud, on Cablevision's servers. The clients are diskless Samsung boxes, but they allow you to pause LIVE TV for up to 15 minutes.
> 
> I haven't tried it yet, but one downside is they currently cap him at 75 hours of HD storage. That's up from 25 hours when they first rolled it out. Hopefully they will continue to increase the storage, or allow a customer to pay for more storage at some point in the future.
> 
> They charge $12/month for multiroom DVR and $7/month for each HD client box with remote. That's about the same that DIRECTV charges for a Genie and 3 clients, when you add in the DIRECTV HD and DVR charges.


How is the responsiveness? On Demand I have seen from cable companies (and used) is slow to respond.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

tonyd79 said:


> How is the responsiveness? On Demand I have seen from cable companies (and used) is slow to respond.


I haven't tried it yet, but my son claims it's laggier than he's used to with his former FiOS DVR service, but not terrible.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Steve said:


> I haven't tried it yet, but my son claims it's laggier than he's used to with his former FiOS DVR service, but not terrible.


It will be interesting to see if that gets better with adjustments or worse as more people jump on the service. fios does have pretty responsive trickplay.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

slice1900 said:


> I was giving that as an example. What I'm saying is that since Dish has this capability, why not extend to it to any channels that share the same transponder?


It would be an interesting piece of programming to be able to make sure that multiple streams on multiple transponders did not conflict. For example, if USA and ESPN was on the same transponder and USA was being recorded a user wanting to watch ESPN could theoretically use the same tuner connected to that transponder. But if that user wanted to change channels they could not since it would interfere with the recording. Protections would need to be built in to make sure that changing transponders on that tuner was not going to cause a conflict.

It is a lot easier to keep the logic straight with four channels than whatever 8 or 9 channels happen to be on a transponder tuned.



slice1900 said:


> Having it only work for certain locals is rather limiting, and becomes less useful every year since fewer people watch network programming (let alone two things at once) Additionally, networks have followed cable's lead by repeating some shows later in the week, either on the same network or on a cable network.


The most popular show on cable last week had 12.865 million viewers ... number two was 5.415 million (the aftershow for the most popular show). ESPN had the 24th most popular cable show, Fox Sports 1 had the 22nd most popular cable show. Five of the top 25 cable shows were SpongeBob (#10, 11, 14, 15 and 18).

12.865 million on broadcast would have been the fourth most popular show. Number two would not have made the top 25 (#25 broadcast was 8.222 million viewers). BTW: Viewers on both lists includes live and second day viewers.

Broadcast network shows remain the most popular ... and most worthwhile to create a feature to capture simultaneously. While broadcast has rerun programs later the same week the cable trend of immediate repeats or three hours later makes it a lot easier to reschedule for conflicts.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

tonyd79 said:


> It will be interesting to see if that gets better with adjustments or worse as more people jump on the service. fios does have pretty responsive trickplay.


Hopefully Cablevision can add servers as needed, if that becomes the bottleneck. Their internet provisioning has gotten a lot better since my last go-round with them 3+ years ago. I switched from two years of FiOS internet back to Cablevision 18 months ago for price reasons, and the quality of service seems to be identical. No outages either, at least that I'm aware of. Knock on wood.


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## Racer88 (Sep 13, 2006)

ummm....You can record all 4 broadcast networks on one tuner 24/7/365, not "just" during primetime...


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Racer88 said:


> You can record all 4 broadcast networks on one tuner 24/7/365, not "just" during primetime...


Lots of luck: How are rolloffs handled when the HDD nears capacity?


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## Riverpilot (Aug 13, 2010)

Steve said:


> Here in NY's Westchester County, my son just moved into a building where his only option was Cablevision. He signed up for their "multiroom DVR" service. He can record up to 10 shows at once and they're stored in the cloud, on Cablevision's servers. The clients are diskless Samsung boxes, but they allow you to pause LIVE TV for up to 15 minutes.
> 
> I haven't tried it yet, but one downside is they currently cap him at 75 hours of HD storage. That's up from 25 hours when they first rolled it out. Hopefully they will continue to increase the storage, or allow a customer to pay for more storage at some point in the future.
> 
> ...


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Riverpilot said:


> > Here in NY's Westchester County, my son just moved into a building where his only option was Cablevision. He signed up for their "multiroom DVR" service. He can record up to 10 shows at once and they're stored in the cloud, on Cablevision's servers. The clients are diskless Samsung boxes, but they allow you to pause LIVE TV for up to 15 minutes.
> >
> > I haven't tried it yet, but one downside is they currently cap him at 75 hours of HD storage. That's up from 25 hours when they first rolled it out. Hopefully they will continue to increase the storage, or allow a customer to pay for more storage at some point in the future.
> >
> ...


Cablevision has no usage caps, but I'm not sure if watching a recorded show reduces his household download capacity. Will have to check that when I finally get a chance to play with it. I believe he has 50/25 service, so even if it does, there is plenty of download bandwidth available.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Laxguy said:


> Lots of luck: How are rolloffs handled when the HDD nears capacity?


The oldest unprotected content on the HDD is deleted. Just like with any other timer recording. The ability to record multiple channels from the same tuner does not affect how HDD space is managed.

The separate but related PTAT feature that records up to four channels every evening up to seven days per week and saves all content on the chosen channel for up to 8 days (user configurable on which of the four channels, which of the seven days and how many days are saved) rolls off the oldest content to record the new. Originally PTAT was recorded to a protected portion of the HDD that could not be used for other programs but DISH moved that to the customer portion of the drive so people who did not want all four channels for all seven days saved for eight days could use that space for other programming.


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## acostapimps (Nov 6, 2011)

The feature I want that Dish Hoppers have is, a way to retrieve deleted recordings through deleted folder, and for god sakes please remove that delete confirmation message after a recording has concluded, and just bring me back to live TV. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

acostapimps said:


> The feature I want that Dish Hoppers have is, a way to retrieve deleted recordings through deleted folder, and for god sakes please remove that delete confirmation message after a recording has concluded, and just bring me back to live TV.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk


+1 on "undelete".

-1 on "keep/delete". 9 times out of 10, after watching a recording we're done with it, so why not delete it ASAP?


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Steve said:


> +1 on "undelete".
> 
> -1 on "keep/delete". 9 times out of 10, after watching a recording we're done with it, so why not delete it ASAP?


Respectfully disagree.

Undelete is for those who aren't paying attention...but I supposed it addresses taking care of those asleep at the wheel. :listening

As for the delete option...that's a MUST HAVE feature...since many people actually watch a program more than once...and preserving it should remain an option for future viewing.


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## joed32 (Jul 27, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Respectfully disagree.
> 
> Undelete is for those who aren't paying attention...but I supposed it addresses taking care of those asleep at the wheel. :listening
> 
> As for the delete option...that's a MUST HAVE feature...since many people actually watch a program more than once...and preserving it should remain an option for future viewing.


Have you ever had the "undelete" feature? I didn't think I would ever use but there were times when I wanted to go back and check something in a show that I had deleted.


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## patmurphey (Dec 21, 2006)

Racer88 said:


> ummm....You can record all 4 broadcast networks on one tuner 24/7/365, not "just" during primetime...





Laxguy said:


> Lots of luck: How are rolloffs handled when the HDD nears capacity?


I think he was suggesting that you can record "from" all 4 broadcast networks at once, not suggesting to record all 24 hours from all 4. There is no limit to how many hours of recordings that you can keep on a Hopper system. You can archive to as many 2TB external drives as you can afford - 2 at a time can be attached to the "watch recordings" menu. I've heard that more can be seen at once through a USB powered hub. The EHDs re account specific and can be watched from any Dish box the account.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

joed32 said:


> Have you ever had the "undelete" feature? I didn't think I would ever use but there were times when I wanted to go back and check something in a show that I had deleted.


As you probably remember, we used to actively maintain an HR2x "Wish List". 1200+ unique voters made "undelete" the #1 request in the "Ease Of Use" category.

#2 in that category is a request that includes remote recording management, another area where DIRECTV lags the competition, IMHO.

Both of those requests were in the "top 10" of all categories combined.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

My own druthers is for full IP control.... and I view an accidental deletion as an act of God...it was going to be a waste of time to view the program that was deleted.... well, maybe not a full belief, but it takes the sting out when you say, NOOOoooooo! I wanted to see that.....


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Laxguy said:


> My own druthers is for full IP control....


+1



Laxguy said:


> and I view an accidental deletion as an act of God...it was going to be a waste of time to view the program that was deleted.... well, maybe not a full belief, but it takes the sting out when you say, NOOOoooooo! I wanted to see that.....


No reason they shouldn't enable a recycle bin, IMHO. It will have 0 impact on storage.

TiVo probably knows more about how DVRs are used than any company on the planet. They didn't offer "recently deleted" for 7 years, but have had it since 2006.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Yep, UNDELETE is a welcome feature, and with my FiOS Roamio setup it works great. I carefully manage everything, but I've had several instances where I wanted to recover a recording that I deleted on purpose. Now I never care, because with 3TB most everything sits in that deleted folder for many weeks. Love it.

Roamio is where the innovation is: http://forums.solidsignal.com/showthread.php/5920-My-TiVo-Roamio-amp-Mini-Thoughts-amp-Observations


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

> Originally PTAT was recorded to a protected portion of the HDD that could not be used for other programs


well, as I recall, after digging into the dish myth I found the actual change was in Quota management ... no protection at all because all recordings done into one partition... it's in old posts here


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

joed32 said:


> Have you ever had the "undelete" feature? I didn't think I would ever use but there were times when I wanted to go back and check something in a show that I had deleted.


Never found a reason to use it.

I have it in some software...and also never use it.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Laxguy said:


> My own druthers is for full IP control.... and I view an accidental deletion as an act of God...it was going to be a waste of time to view the program that was deleted.... well, maybe not a full belief, but it takes the sting out when you say, NOOOoooooo! I wanted to see that.....


Agree with all of that... :up:


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Undelete is for those who aren't paying attention...but I supposed it addresses taking care of those asleep at the wheel. :listening





hdtvfan0001 said:


> Never found a reason to use it.
> 
> I have it in some software...and also never use it.


So you've never restored anything from the Windows recycle bin?


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

One person's view will not change overall general usefulness. UNDELETE is a helpful feature, whether it's to restore a recording that has been accidentally deleted, or to go back to a recording that you want to show to a family member that you may have deleted (of which I've had several occasions). Somewhat proven out by it also being at the top of the wishlist forever. Same with remote DVR management, it's almost a given requirement for any provider these days with the move to mobile and cloud. Not much need for debate, just add it. Same with short cuts to manage a huge unified playlist, a given that progress is needed. Invest in multiple >2 tuner DVR support as well, a must for any high-end A/V aficionado. Throw in an optional high-end keyboard remote control as well, I never knew how useful that could be, I now use the Roamio Slider keyboard remote almost everyday as I search for stuff, it takes a split second, slide open, hit search button, type, done, I'm not much into talking into my iPhone to search. I can find a show in a split second with the keyboard remote. All these things are keys to innovation and progress, and stickiness, to keep people to love your platform.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

joed32 said:


> Have you ever had the "undelete" feature? I didn't think I would ever use but there were times when I wanted to go back and check something in a show that I had deleted.


I have had it on Tivo for years and have it on Fios. I think I used it once in about ten years of having it. Maybe wished I had it one other time when I didn't. Today, it is too easy to get things you deleted by other means (on demand, internet streaming, not to mention "other other" methods).

Personally, I don't care if it is there or not. (I almost always cleanout my recycling bin on Windows).


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

And with the move to larger and more shared DVR environments, the general usefulness of UNDELETE may actually expand, as one family member may now watch a recording from another room and possibly delete it while another family member may later want to watch the same recording. And yep, it may also now not be as big an issue with on-demand growing, but I guess it all depends on the family situation.

I tend to not share as much these days, with three six-tuner DVR's dedicated to family members, but again I've had several occasions where we'll mention a show that I deleted, but then later want to show my wife, and it's just a simple undelete. It's usually for a nightly talk show of which I record all six, but only keep the last 5 episodes (the past week) of each. That actually reminds me, UNDELETE helps also when you keep say the last 5 episodes of Late Show or something and want to go back and find an old one. Our Roamio's tend to only be about 1TB used (150-200 HD hours), thus there's another 1-2TB (250-300 HD hours) to act as an undelete buffer for all the old deleted stuff.


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

Steve said:


> +1
> 
> No reason they shouldn't enable a recycle bin, IMHO. It will have 0 impact on storage.
> 
> TiVo probably knows more about how DVRs are used than any company on the planet. They didn't offer "recently deleted" for 7 years, but have had it since 2006.


They offered it because Tivo users are like MAC users.....


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

Steve said:


> So you've never restored anything from the Windows recycle bin?


I use shift-DELETE, bypasses the recycle bin and gets immediately deleted......


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

tonyd79 said:


> I have had it on Tivo for years and have it on Fios. I think I used it once in about ten years of having it. Maybe wished I had it one other time when I didn't. Today, it is too easy to get things you deleted by other means (on demand, internet streaming, not to mention "other other" methods).
> 
> Personally, I don't care if it is there or not. (I almost always cleanout my recycling bin on Windows).


The point is it has no impact on storage, so for the extremely rare times you might need it, why not have it? And as Sixto coorectly points out, in an MRV, multi-user household, the odds of someone deleting something someone else may want to see are a bit higher.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

acostapimps said:


> The feature I want that Dish Hoppers have is, a way to retrieve deleted recordings through deleted folder, and for god sakes please remove that delete confirmation message after a recording has concluded, and just bring me back to live TV.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk


That's the way I delete almost everything I watch. And I'll bet that's true for most people.

Yes on the first thought though.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

CCarncross said:


> They offered it because Tivo users are like MAC users.....


This conversation reminded me that even DOS had a recycle bin. 

http://www.computerhope.com/undelete.htm


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Laxguy said:


> My own druthers is for full IP control.... and I view an accidental deletion as an act of God...it was going to be a waste of time to view the program that was deleted.... well, maybe not a full belief, but it takes the sting out when you say, NOOOoooooo! I wanted to see that.....


Not if you deleted it by habit before the wife saw it. Then it's the devil made me do it!!!! :lol:


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Yeah there's zero harm in having a deleted folder like TiVo. 

And the bigger the family the more useful something like that can be. For a single person less useful I'd suggest.


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## NR4P (Jan 16, 2007)

PC comparisons made not be valid. PCs tend to be more personal in nature. DVRs with whole home may be used by 4 or more folks. So Delete on a DVR probably has a higher liklihood of accidental misuse. 

Even my phone's voice mail has it so why not on shared DVRs?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

P Smith said:


> well, as I recall, after digging into the dish myth I found the actual change was in Quota management ... no protection at all because all recordings done into one partition... it's in old posts here


Might as well use DISH's terms for DISH's feature. Whether the protection is done by physical partitions or quotas it is still a "protected portion of the HDD". Or protected space - or protected section. Whatever term works.

It being a quota certainly made it easier to change when they decided to move PTAT into the customer's space and not reserve space on receivers that may or may not have PTAT enabled - or fully enabled.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

CCarncross said:


> I use shift-DELETE, bypasses the recycle bin and gets immediately deleted......


Wouldn't it be easier just to disable the recycle bin?

As for the feature on the receiver ... it comes at no noticeable cost. A menu selection for "deleted recordings" and the "deleted recordings" folder are the only way anyone knows that their content isn't gone gone like it was without the feature. What harm does having undelete do to someone who doesn't want it? Would it simply annoy that user that they got a feature they didn't want?

(And yes, an "Empty Folder" option is nice for those who do want something to be gone gone - perhaps something they don't want others to see in the deleted folder.)

For those who want undelete there is some harm. I would not want to lose the feature.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

CCarncross said:


> They offered it because Tivo users are like MAC users.....


Is that a dig or complement?? 

And if you mean the superlative computer, it's *Mac.*


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

James Long said:


> Might as well use DISH's terms for DISH's feature. Whether the protection is done by physical partitions or quotas it is still a "protected portion of the HDD". Or protected space - or protected section. Whatever term works.
> 
> It being a quota certainly made it easier to change when they decided to move PTAT into the customer's space and not reserve space on receivers that may or may not have PTAT enabled - or fully enabled.


there is no protection per se;
that's why I corrected you by bringing a mechanism of allocation space for different types of recordings inside of *one physical partition* without "protected" flag
also no such "user space vs PTAT space" exist on the drives

you are grasping a 'straw' by continue rephrasing incorrect statement


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

P Smith said:


> also no such "user space vs PTAT space" exist on the drives


Yes there is (although as stated, PTAT is now in the user space, separate from the reserved VOD space).
It is done by quota. Now let the DirecTV folks get back to discussing what they like or don't like about their receivers.


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## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

Steve said:


> +1 on "undelete".
> 
> -1 on "keep/delete". 9 times out of 10, after watching a recording we're done with it, so why not delete it ASAP?


Plus - How much file space are you willing to give up for undelete storage?


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Drucifer said:


> Plus - How much file space are you willing to give up for undelete storage?


undelete has no negative effect on storage


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

Only in the Directv forums do the Directv fans unwelcome petential features. If people want autotune and undelete features who cares? Maybe some people don't want game search or Directv apps or a Genie telling me what I might like to watch.
Unreal!

We have a guide.
I've never had a hard time finding any of MLB games or NFL games or forgot what show I like to watch on tv that the Genie had to show me.
All this stuff just slows down the receivers function , with the constant loading in the backround.

Autotune and Undelete I doubt would effect the receiver in anyway.
And if thats what people want, then so be it!


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

peds48 said:


> undelete has no negative effect on storage


:up:


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

damondlt said:


> Only in the Directv forums do the Directv fans unwelcome petential features.


Perhaps because these same folks want these "features" as a way to minimize their shortcomings of not knowing how to use the system.

Auto-tune on a DVR? Why, why?????????


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

peds48 said:


> Perhaps because these same folks want these "features" as a way to minimize their shortcomings of not knowing how to use the system.
> 
> Auto-tune on a DVR? Why, why?????????


Because its a request and what does it hurt?


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

I want Better HD PQ too.

I don't feel its as good as it was in 2007.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

damondlt said:


> Because its a request and what does it hurt?


because it does not makes any sense. so now every time I press record I will have to decide whether it should be a record or an auto-tune command? nope thanks

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

peds48 said:


> because it does not makes any sense. so now every time I press record I will have to decide whether it should be a record or an auto-tune command? nope thanks
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


and Again who are you?
Lots of things I don't want.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

damondlt said:


> and Again who are you?
> Lots of things I don't want.


as long as the things you want don't change the things that almost everybody wants, then is OK. and auto-tune is not one of them. undelete is


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## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

peds48 said:


> undelete has no negative effect on storage


Where do think a delete file will go if it can be undeleted. It will still occupied HDD space. Have enough of 'em and you wont be able to record if you keep your HDD fairly full. Which a lot of us do.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Drucifer said:


> Where do think a delete file will go if it can be undeleted. It will still occupied HDD space. Have enough of 'em and you wont be able to record if you keep your HDD fairly full. Which a lot of us do.


If you know about hard drives you know that nothing is deleted from the disks, but rather those sectors gets marked or indexed as available space. all the box is doing is trying to not over write to them, but in a worse case scenario they will get over written


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## acostapimps (Nov 6, 2011)

I just don't want that message popping out at me, when recorded show is done, I'm not always there to hit the button for deletion or not, I know it eventually goes back to live TV, but it takes way too long and potentially could leave burn in or image retention, Is not about if I want to delete or not, And I do remember once that I mistakenly deleted a show, that I really wanted to watch, So undelete is definitely one of my want feature.


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## acostapimps (Nov 6, 2011)

But if its on the expense of any DVR lags, then remove other less necessary features. Genie recommends IMO.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

peds48 said:


> because it does not makes any sense. so now every time I press record I will have to decide whether it should be a record or an auto-tune command? nope thanks


Perhaps a better interface could be designed. If one is looking ahead in the EPG and presses record the machine sets up a recording ... if one is looking ahead in the EPG and presses select the machine gives the option to autotune or record. Autotune does not have to be a one button press option.

Perhaps a viewer's morning routine as you are waking up is to turn on the TV and tune to WeatherNation to get the latest forecast. Or they have a favorite morning news show. Having autotune saves the step of changing channels on the receiver ... all one has to do is turn on the TV. And if the TV can be powered on via HDMI then an autotune could pick the right channel, turn on the receiver and turn on the TV.

Perhaps you would never use this feature ... but someone would.



Drucifer said:


> Where do think a delete file will go if it can be undeleted. It will still occupied HDD space. Have enough of 'em and you wont be able to record if you keep your HDD fairly full. Which a lot of us do.


The occupied space would be the first to be cleared when needed for the next recording. There is zero harm in having a deleted recording available for undeletion. Deleted programs do not prevent new recordings from being made.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

James Long said:


> Perhaps a better interface could be designed. If one is looking ahead in the EPG and presses record the machine sets up a recording ... if one is looking ahead in the EPG and presses select the machine gives the option to autotune or record. Autotune does not have to be a one button press option.
> 
> Perhaps a viewer's morning routine as you are waking up is to turn on the TV and tune to WeatherNation to get the latest forecast. Or they have a favorite morning news show. Having autotune saves the step of changing channels on the receiver ... all one has to do is turn on the TV. And if the TV can be powered on via HDMI then an autotune could pick the right channel, turn on the receiver and turn on the TV.
> 
> Perhaps you would never use this feature ... but someone would.


Agree 100% I've used Autotune its nice. 
Perfect example, My mother whom is 80 years old , Hell bent on basic cable, Comes to my house to use Directv , and of course can't figure out how to use the receivers.

So i most times every night set her up and autotune her like 8 hours of shows she like before bedtime. That way she doesn't have to try and figure out how to find her shows.
But can only do this on the H25. So instead of staying in the living room to watch tv she is forced into my youngest room.
Its a pain!.

Another example, My office, I always keep News on all day, Between CNN and Fox and local News. 
My secretary Has on the local channel and next thing I know Kelly and Mike are on, and I'm not there to stop it LOL!.
So now I autotune the whole day before I leave the office. Now if I get an HR I can't do that.

Nothing against Kelly and Mike , But I want my customers watching news, Business News or weather. They are here for Business.
I walked in one day and Cinemax was on. Thats a no no!


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

acostapimps said:


> I just don't want that message popping out at me, when recorded show is done, I'm not always there to hit the button for deletion or not, I know it eventually goes back to live TV, but it takes way too long and potentially could leave burn in or image retention, Is not about if I want to delete or not, And I do remember once that I mistakenly deleted a show, that I really wanted to watch, So undelete is definitely one of my want feature.


Burn in? Is your plasma that old? Burn in takes hours, and IR goes away fairly easily.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

peds48 said:


> because it does not makes any sense. so now every time I press record I will have to decide whether it should be a record or an auto-tune command? nope thanks
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Every time I go to a sports channel I'm prompted to press read button, after a 10 second delay where the box is frozen just to send me this prompt.

Does that make any sense?

You die hard sports fans can't just find your games yourself? instead of slowing down every HR on the block.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

damondlt said:


> Every time I go to a sports channel I'm prompted to press read button, after a 10 second delay where the box is frozen just to send me this prompt.
> 
> Does that make any sense?
> 
> You die hard sports fans can't just find your games yourself? instead of slowing down every HR on the block.


I don't even notice any freeze from SG and can immediately do whatever ... it's a handy feature, just like Autotune.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

sigma1914 said:


> I don't even notice any freeze from SG and can immediately do whatever ... it's a handy feature, just like Autotune.


I can assure you if I turn to channel 206 not one box in my house will respond until that red Dot shows up. Anywhere between 8-12 seconds.
I will give you that its a handy feature. 
But what I like and what someone else like doesn't have to be the same . I don't think many understand that!


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

damondlt said:


> ...
> But what I like and what someone else like doesn't have to be the same . I don't think many understand that!


I agree. It's like the old HD addition battle ... "If I don't watch XYZ, then it's a worthless crappy channel & we don't need it."

I don't see why people are against something others will use.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

sigma1914 said:


> I don't see why people are against something others will use.


I agree .

Sent from my PantechP8010 using DBSTalk mobile app


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## joed32 (Jul 27, 2006)

Drucifer said:


> Where do think a delete file will go if it can be undeleted. It will still occupied HDD space. Have enough of 'em and you wont be able to record if you keep your HDD fairly full. Which a lot of us do.


I had the feature on my Directv Tivos. When you record something the oldest program on the drive is permanently deleted to make room for the new recording if your drive is full.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Drucifer said:


> Where do think a delete file will go if it can be undeleted. It will still occupied HDD space. Have enough of 'em and you wont be able to record if you keep your HDD fairly full. Which a lot of us do.





peds48 said:


> If you know about hard drives you know that nothing is deleted from the disks, but rather those sectors gets marked or indexed as available space. all the box is doing is trying to not over write to them, but in a worse case scenario they will get over written





joed32 said:


> I had the feature on my Directv Tivos. When you record something the oldest program on the drive is permanently deleted to make room for the new recording if your drive is full.


To Peds' point, the "recently deleted" folder can only be as large as the available space. So if you're at 100% "active" recordings, there won't be any recoverable shows. And if you're at 100% and delete a show, once a new show gets recorded, the show you just deleted will no longer be recoverable.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

damondlt said:


> I can assure you if I turn to channel 206 not one box in my house will respond until that red Dot shows up. Anywhere between 8-12 seconds.
> I will give you that its a handy feature.
> But what I like and what someone else like doesn't have to be the same . I don't think many understand that!


Sounds like you have a problem. Mine never freeze. Does it do it on weather nation too?

Add all you want. None of this is a priority to me. Make search faster and better. Fix the clunky on demand menuing system.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

tonyd79 said:


> Sounds like you have a problem. Mine never freeze. Does it do it on weather nation too?


It does it on any channel that has to wait for a red button prompt.

Until the Prompt is done loading , you are not changing the channel. HR34 8-12 seconds HR23 8-12 seconds , HR24 6-10 seconds

And I guess All 3 of my HRs are defective. Maybe you can tell Directv to replace all my equipment. :rotfl:

Or maybe you could just admit, those applications slow receivers down and autotune and undelete wouldn't!


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

damondlt said:


> It does it on any channel that has to wait for a red button prompt.
> 
> Until the Prompt is done loading , you are not changing the channel. HR34 8-12 seconds HR23 8-12 seconds , HR24 6-10 seconds
> 
> ...


You should start a thread about this to get others times. It's just like any other channel on a HR44... can do anything before and after the prompt.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

damondlt said:


> :
> 
> Or maybe you could just admit, those applications slow receivers down and autotune and undelete wouldn't!


what makes you believe that auto-tune would not slow the receivers down?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

damondlt said:


> It does it on any channel that has to wait for a red button prompt.
> 
> Until the Prompt is done loading , you are not changing the channel. HR34 8-12 seconds HR23 8-12 seconds , HR24 6-10 seconds
> 
> ...


Why should I admit any such thing when none of mine have an issue? Also, it doesn't take 8 to 12 seconds for the active layer to load on my genie. Mine often loads before I realize it and more often than not without the message coming up. I'd bet the issues are related.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

peds48 said:


> what makes you believe that auto-tune would not slow the receivers down?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Because it doesnt require a constant backround loading operation.

Sent from my PantechP8010 using DBSTalk mobile app


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

tonyd79 said:


> Why should I admit any such thing when none of mine have an issue? Also, it doesn't take 8 to 12 seconds for the active layer to load on my genie. Mine often loads before I realize it and more often than not without the message coming up. I'd bet the issues are related.


I wouldnt expect you to admit any directv equipment fault. So its of no worry to me.

Sent from my PantechP8010 using DBSTalk mobile app


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

sigma1914 said:


> You should start a thread about this to get others times. It's just like any other channel on a HR44... can do anything before and after the prompt.


I believe you . Because I consider the HR24 to be acceptible. But Hr34 and 23 are not.

Sent from my PantechP8010 using DBSTalk mobile app


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

damondlt said:


> I wouldnt expect you to admit any directv equipment fault. So its of no worry to me.
> 
> Sent from my PantechP8010 using DBSTalk mobile app


Why should I say there is a problem I've never seen? That would be stupid. How about you admit mine doesn't have a problem? And never has.

If all your receivers are taking that long to load the automation and are freezing, there is something wrong. I can't debug it for you. But I know that it isn't the same everywhere. Her, when you debug a problem, you look for differences and sameness. Something in your setup is conflicting with the receivers. Could still be a fault in the programming not adjusting for something but you just declare it is a problem like it is for everyone. Not looking for a solution, are you?


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

damondlt said:


> Because it doesnt require a constant backround loading operation.
> 
> Sent from my PantechP8010 using DBSTalk mobile app


It would require constant checking to see if it is supposed to change the channel. Just like recording schedules do (and probably the reason for the 50/100 series limit).

Doubt it would slow it down but I'd bet it would be added to the series limit if the auto tune were series based.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

damondlt said:


> Because its a request and what does it hurt?


That will cause confusion because some would think they set a recording and end up with auto tune. I get why that's not there.

Game search is a big deal though. It's an auto record or your team. That required boleans before to be close to good. Now it's there for anyone and works great. Some people won't use it but it doesn't hurt any existing feature and it didn't slow anything down.

And it won't confuse people with an already Existing feature.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

inkahauts said:


> That will cause confusion because some would think they set a recording and end up with auto tune. I get why that's not there.
> 
> .


inky makes a good point

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

damondlt said:


> Agree 100% I've used Autotune its nice.
> Perfect example, My mother whom is 80 years old , Hell bent on basic cable, Comes to my house to use Directv , and of course can't figure out how to use the receivers.
> 
> So i most times every night set her up and autotune her like 8 hours of shows she like before bedtime. That way she doesn't have to try and figure out how to find her shows.
> ...


Ah record all the shows at the office and one of the news stations will be shown.

As for your mom. Record them. Show her four buttons on the remote. List. Up down arrows. Play. That's all she'd need.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

damondlt said:


> It does it on any channel that has to wait for a red button prompt.
> 
> Until the Prompt is done loading , you are not changing the channel. HR34 8-12 seconds HR23 8-12 seconds , HR24 6-10 seconds
> 
> ...


Yeah there is something wrong there. I would start a thread on it. And I would make DIRECTV come replace stuff if you can't get it better than that because that's unacceptable IMHO if it's every time on every box.

I have wondered if they will make that all Internet driven if your Internet connected so it won't slow the box although I never really see much of a slow down myself.

In fact if your game Unplug your Internet connection and see if you get the same results. Just a hunch.

But don't confuse that with anything to do with sports search or game search because they are all completely different.

Auto tune would require the same type if resources as a recording does. So no different than a sports search record. It's the confusing people that the issue with that.

Un delete shouldn't take any more
Resources than changing something in the playlist from keep to delete as needed. There's zero reason not to do it.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

Again some responses from same Directv Yes men squad . Unwelcome change and feel everything directv does its the smartest thing on earth. 
Wow im glad I don't have don't have to base my life on everything a tv provider does. 



Sent from my PantechP8010 using DBSTalk mobile app


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

peds48 said:


> inky makes a good point
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You think just because he makes a point in your favor its a good one.

when infact your all really saying directv subscribers are too dumb to figure out Autotune verses Record.

But maybe your all right ,again i guess with the a guide and knowing sports are only in certain spots on certain channels must not be enough that a game finder is needed. Lol

Again people have certain request and for that you should all zip it

Sent from my PantechP8010 using DBSTalk mobile app


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## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

Steve said:


> To Peds' point, the "recently deleted" folder can only be as large as the available space. So if you're at 100% "active" recordings, there won't be any recoverable shows. And if you're at 100% and delete a show, once a new show gets recorded, the show you just deleted will no longer be recoverable.


Ain't that simple. Without separating kept deleted files, a new recording could write over several portions of recently deleted files.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Steve said:


> To Peds' point, the "recently deleted" folder can only be as large as the available space. So if you're at 100% "active" recordings, there won't be any recoverable shows. And if you're at 100% and delete a show, once a new show gets recorded, the show you just deleted will no longer be recoverable.





Drucifer said:


> Ain't that simple. Without separating kept deleted files, a new recording could write over several portions of recently deleted files.


Thats exactly what I meant. The less storage available you have, the less useful a recycle bin will be. No argument here.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

damondlt said:


> Again some responses from same Directv Yes men squad . Unwelcome change and feel everything directv does its the smartest thing on earth.
> Wow im glad I don't have don't have to base my life on everything a tv provider does.
> 
> Sent from my PantechP8010 using DBSTalk mobile app


Oh I hope you are not suggesting I'm one of those people. I think DIRECTV GUI is severely lacking and the head guy needs to be fired because he has no vision at all and uses focus groups to determine what should be done instead of intellect.

Where's my better guide and playlist?

A simple auto tune will confuse people unfortunately. I've dealt with far to many people who get confused over things like this.

It all goes back my believe they need a option in the settings to turn on advanced options thought the GUI.

Heck there is a couple thing did move from the current GUI to an advanced GUI.

Then make things like 30skip an option in a new menu instead of buried with a key word. Also allow narrowing recordings by hour and days. Allow you to turn in the ability to auto tune. Etc. then it'd be fine. Because if your advanced enough to enable that option your advanced enough to know how to use it.

The only other way I see auto tune not causing issues if it's only accessed like a manual recording. Buried in a menu that few ever go to.

I once spent three hours trying to explain to someone a receipt for an exchange of a product and and why the tax line showed the amount it did. Even after writing out two separate receipts one for the rerun and one for the sale and showing her her actual receipt simply showed the net of it all she still didn't get it. And she was a college student. Trust me people get far to confused to easy.

My issue is plenty do not and DIRECTV needs to find a good way to make both happy instead of saying that if the easy to confuse people are happy so will be the rest.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

damondlt said:


> You think just because he makes a point in your favor its a good one.
> 
> when infact your all really saying directv subscribers are too dumb to figure out Autotune verses Record.
> 
> ...


And it's not about finding games. It's about setting up easily one series link to record all your teams games on all channels which is extremely difficult to do otherwise. This now makes it as simple as setting a series recording for any regular tv series.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Drucifer said:


> Ain't that simple. Without separating kept deleted files, a new recording could write over several portions of recently deleted files.


Right now there's two classes of stuff in our drives. Keep till I delete and delete as needed. A trash bin would simply add a third class and would be the lowest in the totem pole and follow the exact same principal as other shows. Delete the oldest for the next recording.


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## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

James Long said:


> Perhaps a better interface could be designed. If one is looking ahead in the EPG and presses record the machine sets up a recording ... if one is looking ahead in the EPG and presses select the machine gives the option to autotune or record. Autotune does not have to be a one button press option.
> 
> Perhaps a viewer's morning routine as you are waking up is to turn on the TV and tune to WeatherNation to get the latest forecast. Or they have a favorite morning news show. Having autotune saves the step of changing channels on the receiver ... all one has to do is turn on the TV. And if the TV can be powered on via HDMI then an autotune could pick the right channel, turn on the receiver and turn on the TV.
> 
> ...


I don't think the DirecTV DVR processors are capable to rewrite ONLY over the oldest deleted recording without it effecting the DVR speed. Really, working the GUI while it was doing one of these selected overwrite would bring it down to a crawl pace. And members here are *****ing about GUI slowness. Can you imagine the uproar with even a slower GUI response?


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

slice1900 said:


> I was giving that as an example. What I'm saying is that since Dish has this capability, why not extend to it to any channels that share the same transponder?


Because not all channels on a particular transponder are guaranteed to be in the same programming package. Outside of locals, there aren't that many channels that are in every programming package and many of them aren't worth recording.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

inkahauts said:


> That will cause confusion because some would think they set a recording and end up with auto tune. I get why that's not there.


Why would someone think that an autotune was a recording? The recording light doesn't come on and they have to specifically choose to autotune something as part of setting up the event.

I use autotune quite a bit to make sure I don't miss the start of something and if I decide that I want to record it, I'll press the record button. If I decide against watching the program, I jump back. I haven't relinquished any control or caused any existing programs to be automatically deleted according to some inscrutable algorithm.


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## dennisj00 (Sep 27, 2007)

I have 6 DVRs that don't slow down with any of the red button functions.

But the Sports search generally fails on college basketball searches for the wrong regional channel that I don't get.


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## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

harsh said:


> Why would someone think that an autotune was a recording? The recording light doesn't come on and they have to specifically choose to autotune something as part of setting up the event.
> 
> *I use autotune quite a bit to make sure I don't miss the start of something* and if I decide that I want to record it, I'll press the record button. If I decide against watching the program, I jump back. I haven't relinquished any control or caused any existing programs to be automatically deleted according to some inscrutable algorithm.


Autotune does 95% of the channel changing on my kitchen H25 as that television is always on while I'm up .

Wish I had Autotune on my DVRs.


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

Drucifer said:


> I don't think the DirecTV DVR processors are capable to rewrite ONLY over the oldest deleted recording without it effecting the DVR speed. Really, working the GUI while it was doing one of these selected overwrite would bring it down to a crawl pace. And members here are *****ing about GUI slowness. Can you imagine the uproar with even a slower GUI response?


Most disk operating systems will ALWAYS write to blank (never used) disk space if possible. When there is no more empty disk space, they then start to overwrite previously deleted files. Modern systems usually seek a block of sectors that is at least as large as the data to be saved (obviously variable since files grow) - that's how they keep fragmentation down. All that is required is to add a subroutine that also factors the file creation date into the selection of which sectors can be overwritten.

This would all happen down in the operating system, in code that runs in kernel. We are talking about a few milliseconds of extra CPU time each time a new file is created.

Nearly every other DVR on the market is able to do this...there is no reason Directv couldn't do it as well. All that's required is to move it to the top of the enhancements queue.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Drucifer said:


> I don't think the DirecTV DVR processors are capable to rewrite ONLY over the oldest deleted recording without it effecting the DVR speed. Really, working the GUI while it was doing one of these selected overwrite would bring it down to a crawl pace. And members here are *****ing about GUI slowness. Can you imagine the uproar with even a slower GUI response?


How does a DirecTV DVR handle a full HDD? Refuse to record anything new or delete the oldest program on the drive?

All undelete does is give the user one more chance to change their mind before the program is gone gone. The user deletes the progam ... which places it in the deleted folder and makes it one of the first programs that would be deleted if needed to clear up space for new recordings (before the oldest non-deleted program on the HDD).

As far as having the DVR protect all the parts of the program recorded on the HDD that is trival. The operating system is already doing this for non-deleted programming. The key to understand is that the program is not actually deleted - it is marked for deletion and put into a deleted folder, much like the recycle bin on a modern Windows PC.

Undelete is not the old DOS style look through the HDD for hints of an old deleted file and try to restore it. It is a feature where programs are set aside for deletion instead of immediately and irrevocably deleted. (The actual delete can be done by emptying the deleted folder or having the "deleted" programs actually deleted after they have been in the folder for at least 24 hours - or however the programmers at DirecTV want to build the feature.)

As far as the other feature people seem to be misunderstanding (perhaps intentionally?) - auto tune. Autotune has existed on every DISH receiver for over a decade ... including non DVRs where autotune or external recording (triggering a VCR to start) was an option. I don't see the DISH forums overrun with people complaining that they thought they set a record timer and ended up with an autotune. It seems the customers have figured it out. The interface is similar to what I laid out earlier in the thread ... it isn't as easy to set an autotune as it is an autorecord - so it is hard to make the mistake of accidentally setting a tune instead of a record.

The problem with timer limits and series limits are up to the customer ... if they choose to use their timers for autotunes instead of recordings that is their choice. Why ban the feature? It would be like programming the receiver so it could never record infomercials to save hard drive space. If the user wants to record an infomercial isn't that the user's choice? It isn't up to me to tell people they can't record infomercials - or that they can't use timers (however limited in resource) to control their receiver however they see fit. Someone else setting an autotune isn't affecting the way my receiver operates.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

What is really need to all users: it's personalization, customization of all features; make everything is changeable, allow to make user profile perhaps, send out the DVR/IRD with default setting, but open ability to change.

Well known solution, user-centric - all PC, smartphones, etc support it.

These VP of DVR development are 19-century's mastodons.


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## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

P Smith said:


> What is really need to all users: *it's personalization, customization of all features*; make everything is changeable, allow to make user profile perhaps, send out the DVR/IRD with default setting, but open ability to change.
> 
> Well known solution, user-centric - all PC, smartphones, etc support it.
> 
> These VP of DVR development are 19-century's mastodons.


I suggested setup presets, but was told even presets must be read every time a box is turned on instead of being stored in memory.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

P Smith said:


> Well known solution, user-centric - all PC, smartphones, etc support it.


Not all smartphones, looks like you don't have an iPhone.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

peds48 said:


> Not all smartphones, looks like you don't have an iPhone.


you got it right ... dreadful company's products ... [typing on MB Pro and using WinXP !]


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

P Smith said:


> you got it right ... dreadful company's products ... [typing on MB Pro and using WinXP !]


But there is a reason for simplicity, it just works! compared to DirecTV (or Android if you will) where they add so much stuff that it makes the devices slower than molasses on winter!


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Yep, a 20 year old PC with Windows 95 runs faster than a new PC with Windows 8. But the machine with Windows 8 does more.

That is the trade off - do you want speed or functionality. With the old PCs the processors were slower and there is no way they would run even the next operating system let alone today's bloatware. (It is fun to install Windows 95 on modern hardware and see how fast it can run ... but there are usually driver issues getting it running.)

At some point the developers have to make the decision of how to spend the resources on the machine. If they want a machine that really runs fast but doesn't do anything or if they want a machine that is functional.


For example: If raising the series limits on DirecTV receivers will cause the receivers to bog down if the old limits are breached then the developers have a choice to keep the limits and annoy customers who want more series or raise the limits with the caveat that customers who cross the old limit will take a performance hit.

It a perfect world this could be explained to the customer as an option: "for best results keep your series list at less than 50/100". Unfortunately this is not a perfect world ... if the limit is raised to 200 customers are going to expect the receivers to work flawlessly even with 200 series links. So the decision is made to protect the customer by not offering the requested expansion.


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## patmurphey (Dec 21, 2006)

Drucifer said:


> Where do think a delete file will go if it can be undeleted. It will still occupied HDD space. Have enough of 'em and you wont be able to record if you keep your HDD fairly full. Which a lot of us do.


 An absurd worry! The deleted files were already occupying space and they disappear after 48 hours. Why would you keep your drive that close to full? Oh, that's right you can't archive to an EHD. My bad.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

" An absurd worry!"


Another absurd worry,

is wondering if an Autotune option is added one might mistake and Autotune for a Recording. :rotfl:

So many options, OH no what would we ever do! !rolling
Might I suggest the Record Button! :sure:

Better not record the wrong channel, there are several thousand options, Better not pick the wrong one!
:scratchin


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

By the way, After I got off the phone with Tech support last night , a Tech should be here by noon to Figure out the Delay (that was Deemed NORMAL by Tech Support) while game search/ score app is loading , and receivers are functionless. between 6-12 seconds.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

dennisj00 said:


> I have 6 DVRs that don't slow down with any of the red button functions.
> 
> But the Sports search generally fails on college basketball searches for the wrong regional channel that I don't get.





Drucifer said:


> Autotune does 95% of the channel changing on my kitchen H25 as that television is always on while I'm up .
> 
> Wish I had Autotune on my DVRs.


I wish they did too.
And so do many others even at DBS talk.

The last Poll on it, won by a long shot!.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

I guess AutoTune has been requested since the HR20.

http://www.dbstalk.com/topic/88567-would-you-like-to-see-auto-tune-added-to-the-hr20/page-16?hl=polls


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

damondlt said:


> By the way, After I got off the phone with Tech support last night , a Tech should be here by noon to Figure out the Delay (that was Deemed NORMAL by Tech Support) while game search/ score app is loading , and receivers are functionless. between 6-12 seconds.


Hope they figure it out. Mine loads in about in about a second or two and control is functional even prior to the load.

You are right to complain. What you are getting is horrible.


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## Jodean (Jul 17, 2010)

billsharpe said:


> True, there are only two of us in the house, but in more than six years with DVR's only twice have I had to watch an OTA program on my TV because my DVR was busy recording two programs at once.
> 
> I don't need or want a Hopper or a Genie...


from that statement you have not a clue......

the hr44 genie is about 3 times faster than a hr24

Just installed a hr24 yesterday.....painfully slow, rebooting took about twice as long, the menu system and all that is WAY faster

When the hr24 came out yes all directv customers were inmpressed since all previous equipment was complete garbage and VERY VERY slow, somehow they had the latest hr23 as being the slowest dvr ever...

Anyhow ya i guess you dont want the genie.....it sucks......


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Jodean said:


> from that statement you have not a clue......
> 
> the hr44 genie is about 3 times faster than a hr24
> 
> ...


He has no clue because he doesn't have a need for extra tuners? It's his preference - lay off, man. He doesn't even have DirecTV, so you're wasting font judging him.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

sigma1914 said:


> He has no clue because he doesn't have a need for extra tuners? It's his preference - lay off, man. He doesn't even have DirecTV, so you're wasting font judging him.


you never know what would happen to him next day... imaging he will start banging someone and she already had DTV  perhaps HD and WHN


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## wilbur_the_goose (Aug 16, 2006)

The DVR is fine by me. What disturbs me about D* is that their HD picture quality has been declining -- I'd give them a B. Obviously, their SD quality gets a solid "F".

Verizon FiOS (here in the Philly suburbs) grades: HD - A+ SD B+

But, by far, the biggest gap is VOD. I know it's a different technology, but Verizon kicks DirecTV's tail.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

wilbur_the_goose said:


> . What disturbs me about D* is that their HD picture quality has been declining -- I'd give them a B. Obviously, their SD quality gets a solid "F".


I 100% agree with this.


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## acostapimps (Nov 6, 2011)

damondlt said:


> " An absurd worry!"
> 
> Another absurd worry,
> 
> ...


The only thing close to autotune is recording 2 channels at the same time forcing you to watch one of those recording in progress channels, with a message on HR2x, but autotune should be standard on all receivers, regardless if its a DVR or not.


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## acostapimps (Nov 6, 2011)

The only reason I've mentioned the delete pop up is because I have relatives, that don't understand the remote when that shows up, instead of going straight to live TV with no hassles or input from someone, That's why we have a playlist with a one button delete for, That's all I'm saying, I know is as simple as hitting the OK button then exit from menu, Let's not assume that everybody wants to delete their recordings or at least show a message that says "You can delete in the playlist menu" then it disappears and go straight to live TV.
I know it sounds that I'm being too anal about this


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

damondlt said:


> "........
> 
> Another absurd worry,
> is wondering if an Autotune option is added one might mistake and Autotune for a Recording. ..........


If you don't think that's a worry then you've never met anyone from a generation that needs to write down every single step Of everything in hopes to remember how to get to a playlist and watch something. It's a big concern because many people would get confused by it. My neighbor who just got DIRECTV recently is still having a hard time just learning how to skip commercials. It's completely foreign concept to them. And they are unfortunately a normal customer. They had a DVR for years with cable but never used it. Now they are forced too which is good as it will be nice as they get better with it, because one if their shows is on at 3am instead of 6am because sat is the east coast feed.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

acostapimps said:


> The only reason I've mentioned the delete pop up is because I have relatives, that don't understand the remote when that shows up, instead of going straight to live TV with no hassles or input from someone, That's why we have a playlist with a one button delete for, That's all I'm saying, I know is as simple as hitting the OK button then exit from menu, Let's not assume that everybody wants to delete their recordings or at least show a message that says "You can delete in the playlist menu" then it disappears and go straight to live TV.
> I know it sounds that I'm being too anal about this


They can just hit exit before the show hits the end then.

I really don't get what they don't get. It's a simple question. But then if they don't get that can you imagine the confusion if they have to chose between auto tune and record? And I they are set up differently?


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## ejbvt (Aug 14, 2011)

No sane person would mistake "autotune" for "record". People who are not into technology wouldn't know (or care) what autotune was and wouldn't use it. As long as they are not near each other on the menu, or even have a popup that reads "This show will NOT be recorded" or something, there is no excuse to not have this very basic and useful feature.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

ejbvt said:


> No sane person would mistake "autotune" for "record". People who are not into technology wouldn't know (or care) what autotune was and wouldn't use it. As long as they are not near each other on the menu, or even have a popup that reads "This show will NOT be recorded" or something, there is no excuse to not have this very basic and useful feature.


When you dont install for DirecTV is very easy to assume this, however reality is very differently. When you get service calls to put the TV on the right input or connect a "non-working" receiver to the AC, this is when reality hits you that DirecTV have to make the system as simple as humanly possible


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## acostapimps (Nov 6, 2011)

inkahauts said:


> They can just hit exit before the show hits the end then.
> 
> I really don't get what they don't get. It's a simple question. But then if they don't get that can you imagine the confusion if they have to chose between auto tune and record? And I they are set up differently?


Believe me I told them that, but no one remember that or that show is interesting for them and don't exit, or they just walk away from the show, hence why I said it should go back to live TV, but they mostly watch their live TV shows and don't watch recordings anyway, but they do ask me how to access past recordings, But they don't understand the remote navigation, but they do know their favorite channel numbers besides the locals, and to access local weather on ch 362 with red button, I try to tell them hit the List button then hit the arrows in the center until they find the shows and hit Play, or hit OK if on folder and go to the top most recent shows and then hit Play, Just that explanation is confusing to them, and say you try it

Sent from my iPad using DBSTalk


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## dishinitout (Jan 4, 2013)

peds48 said:


> When you dont install for DirecTV is very easy to assume this, however reality is very differently. When you get service calls to put the TV on the right input or connect a "non-working" receiver to the AC, this is when reality hits you that DirecTV have to make the system as simple as humanly possible


Can't agree more. ... The reasons for some service calls are just amazing.

Sent from my SM-N900V using DBSTalk mobile app


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## ejbvt (Aug 14, 2011)

So we cater to these idiots by wasting space with SD and dumbed-down features? Other companies have both. Fanboys will always defend D*'s dumb choices. Baffles my mind.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

ejbvt said:


> So we cater to these idiots by wasting space with SD and dumbed-down features? Other companies have both. Fanboys will always defend D*'s dumb choices. Baffles my mind.


Wasting space with SD? Maybe you'll point to the cable or satellite provider who offers HD service only?


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

And explain how any large service can ignore the 50 million or so who don't have HD or have it and don't use it.


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## coolman302003 (Jun 2, 2008)

acostapimps said:


> The only thing close to autotune is ....


This... Autotune Gadget for Windows 7/8

http://forums.solidsignal.com/showthread.php/670-Autotune-Gadget-for-Windows-7-8

http://www.dbstalk.com/topic/194583-mini-remote-gadget-for-windows-78/


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

ejbvt said:


> No sane person would mistake "autotune" for "record". People who are not into technology wouldn't know (or care) what autotune was and wouldn't use it. As long as they are not near each other on the menu, or even have a popup that reads "This show will NOT be recorded" or something, there is no excuse to not have this very basic and useful feature.


It's all in the implementation. If you have it set up so you hit a button with those two choices available some will get confused. It's why I say if it's added it should be in the recording manager menus and acceded just like a manual recording. Anything else will cause confusion because so many don't have a clue hat the difference would be. And that's just because they don't know the terms or things like that on a DVR in the first place.

I'll bet half the people over the age of 60 with DVRs don't even record.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

acostapimps said:


> Believe me I told them that, but no one remember that or that show is interesting for them and don't exit, or they just walk away from the show, hence why I said it should go back to live TV, but they mostly watch their live TV shows and don't watch recordings anyway, but they do ask me how to access past recordings, But they don't understand the remote navigation, but they do know their favorite channel numbers besides the locals, and to access local weather on ch 362 with red button, I try to tell them hit the List button then hit the arrows in the center until they find the shows and hit Play, or hit OK if on folder and go to the top most recent shows and then hit Play, Just that explanation is confusing to them, and say you try it
> 
> Sent from my iPad using DBSTalk


Wait a Minute. What's their names I might actually know them!!!! :lol:

Yeah but I think more people would be more confused without it than with it. But the scary part is anyone being confused either way.

My dad always forgets to use the channel up down buttons to scroll a page at a time. Wears the dang arrow keys letter off the remote!!!


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

ejbvt said:


> So we cater to these idiots by wasting space with SD and dumbed-down features? Other companies have both. Fanboys will always defend D*'s dumb choices. Baffles my mind.


z

No. But I think you have to take that into consideration on how you implement something.

And auto tune is one Of the trickier ideas because it's almost an alternative to recording something where's almost all other wants are not alternatives to features but rather a better way to do a feature. Like more guide lines.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

If receivers were designed around the least technical subscriber there would be a lot of features missing.


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

So HR34's are considered unacceptable by some now?


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

CCarncross said:


> So HR34's are considered unacceptable by some now?


And I'm sure they'll consider the HR44 unacceptable the minute a newer Genie is released.


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## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

With about 1/3 the member customers in the autotune thread not wanting added features, because it may break something, and another 1/3 not caring, I say DirecTV has no push to make significant additions or improvements.

Improvements will only occur when they start showing signs of decline in the marketplace.

If you're expecting DirecTV to lead in innovations, you can forget it. They will always be an also ran at best.


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## dishinitout (Jan 4, 2013)

Drucifer said:


> With about 1/3 the member customers in the autotune thread not wanting added features, because it may break something, and another 1/3 not caring, I say DirecTV has no push to make significant additions or improvements.
> 
> Improvements will only occur when they start showing signs of decline in the marketplace.
> .


That sounds like we're on the same page from what I posted on the poll thread. .. 

Sent from my SM-N900V using DBSTalk mobile app


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

peds48 said:


> When you dont install for DirecTV is very easy to assume this, however reality is very differently. When you get service calls to put the TV on the right input or connect a "non-working" receiver to the AC, this is when reality hits you that DirecTV have to make the system as simple as humanly possible


This certainly doesn't explain the colored and dash buttons on the remotes and the absence (or dual function) of some buttons on the RC71. Then there are the double press or hold down remote functions.

The boolean search is pretty inscrutable for all but a relatively small part of the population.

Autotune isn't a power user function but it can be pretty handy and it seems self-evident as to what it does.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Drucifer said:


> With about 1/3 the member customers in the autotune thread not wanting added features, because it may break something, and another 1/3 not caring, I say DirecTV has no push to make significant additions or improvements.


Instead they'll add a feature like TV Apps or Media Share.

There should always be motivation to improve the fundamental utility of the product. Creeping featuritis is what happens when they run out of good ideas and start chasing after something else.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

harsh said:


> Instead they'll add a feature like TV Apps or Media Share.


Which both suck!

Sent from my PantechP8010 using DBSTalk mobile app


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

harsh said:


> This certainly doesn't explain the colored and dash buttons on the remotes and the absence (or dual function) of some buttons on the RC71. Then there are the double press or hold down remote functions.
> 
> The boolean search is pretty inscrutable for all but a relatively small part of the population.
> 
> Autotune isn't a power user function but it can be pretty handy and it seems self-evident as to what it does.


Colored buttons age gone now with the exception of red

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

damondlt said:


> Which both suck!
> 
> Sent from my PantechP8010 using DBSTalk mobile app


You are being kind about the media share part.


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

peds48 said:


> Colored buttons age gone now with the exception of red
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Are you just referring to the RC71 remote? Because I still use all 4 colored buttons on my remotes for my HR2x's. Red to delete shows, etc...yellow for guide options, green for bookmarks in recordings, blue for mini guide.....


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

CCarncross said:


> Are you just referring to the RC71 remote? Because I still use all 4 colored buttons on my remotes for my HR2x's. Red to delete shows, etc...yellow for guide options, green for bookmarks in recordings, blue for mini guide.....


Yes, and it seems that is where DirecTV is going. even the GUI was updated to exclude those button, while the old ones still work though


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

tonyd79 said:


> How is the responsiveness? On Demand I have seen from cable companies (and used) is slow to respond.


Spent the afternoon at my son's apartment and had a chance to put the Cablevision cloud dvr through its paces. In terms of the GUI and trickplay responsiveness, it felt exactly like a Genie client, so not bad. Excellent HD PQ as well. I was sitting about 6' away from a 50" plasma.


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

peds48 said:


> Yes, and it seems that is where DirecTV is going. even the GUI was updated to exclude those button, while the old ones still work though


Only on the Genies.

Its a shame really, they could have done so much more with those color buttons.


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