# Any logical reason why my "unsupported" MRV is so flakey?



## ChicagoTC (Sep 14, 2007)

I recently upgraded to SWM for my 4 boxes; HR20-100, HR20-700, HR22-100, and HR21-200, that upgrade went very smoothly, MRV is another story.

I contacted DTV via the email method and my account says MRV currently activated, all 4 boxes say Whole-House DVR activated and all 4 boxes pass the network and internet test.

2 of the boxes are directly wired to a gig switch and the other 2 are connected via N bridges with the below speeds...

Wireless Connection Status
Wireless Connection Connected
Link Rate (Tx/Rx) 243Mbps / 216Mbps

My IP addresses are set statically
192.168.1.115
192.168.1.116
192.168.1.117
192.168.1.118

I can ping all 4 boxes from the laptop I'm on(same subnet of course)with a times from 2ms-6ms and for the life of me I can't figure out why MRV is flakey at best. I've never seen more than 1 DVR from any box and often times I get the no networked DVRs found. I've reboot, reset, thrown things against the wall, etc and there is no logical reason I can see for this performance. Back in the beta days things worked well 99% of the time.

I'm hesitant to go DECA b/c I use my OTA a lot during big storms or when I'm taping 2 shows and want to watch locals.

Can anyone please say hey dummy check XYZ and help me please!


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## ChicagoTC (Sep 14, 2007)

Update and this is pretty odd, attached is my home network. I'm a network design consultant by trade, hence some of the high end gear. I originally had the wireless boxes connect via 802.11 to the Cisco AP in the lower level. Just for kicks I switched the wireless bridges to connect to the 802.11g AP on the upper level and now everything is working. I can't imagine why, since everything is pingable it shouldn't matter unless somehow that Procurve switch was the problem. Tomorrow I'm going to switch the AP locations and retry this with the original N connection.


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## litzdog911 (Jun 23, 2004)

It's typical of WHDVR when Wireless LAN is involved. You really should convert to DECA if you can't connect those other DVRs with hardwired ethernet.


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

Don't know if you noticed, but according to your chart, Jensnotebook has the same IP address as one of your receivers. That would obviously create a conflict.

One fix that people have found is to give the receivers a static IP address outside of the DHCP range on your router.

- Merg


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## ChicagoTC (Sep 14, 2007)

The Merg said:


> Don't know if you noticed, but according to your chart, Jensnotebook has the same IP address as one of your receivers. That would obviously create a conflict.
> 
> One fix that people have found is to give the receivers a static IP address outside of the DHCP range on your router.
> 
> - Merg


Thanks, diagram is a bit out of date. There are no conflicts on the network I just needed to update the diagram. 

Something on that procurve switch is preventing the DVRs from talking even though everything is pingable.


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## ffemtreed (Jan 30, 2008)

make sure that link between the netgear and procurve is negotiating full duplex. I have seen some issues with those netgear switches and auto negotiation. (I have a whole school filled with those big POS switches). 

Do you have any management setup on the procurve? It could be something like jumbo frames is enabled or disabled. Can you mirror one of the ports (the link to the netgear) and run wireshark on it to see if there is anything out of the ordinary. 

Honestly I would unhook everything on the network except for the DVR's and the wireless access points and see if you can it working and slowly add stuff back into the network. I would try and isolate everything to either the netgear or procurve and see if that helps. 

in the end I think you will find that wireless is the devil!


PS -- if you have any QOS setup on that switch turn it off. you don't need it at all.


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

WiFi, despite the _speed_ you can get, is often not consistant. Since it's radio, and radio interference from other sources comes and goes constantly, that's not surprising. Computers don't notice as much as long as the link is fast, as a computer will use that speed to pre-buffer the stream. DirecTV receivers have very little buffer, as in less than 2 seconds, so if your connection isn't extremely consistant, you'll have problems. The extra speed doesn't help because there's no way to buffer ahead (much).

And this is exactly why non-DECA setups are unsupported: chances are better than average that it won't work well.


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## ChicagoTC (Sep 14, 2007)

ffemtreed - thanks for the suggestions, i'll need to wait until I get home to try any of them. I'm pretty sure I have the gig link between the switches to full duplex, jumbo frame on both switches is enabled, but I don't see that making a difference either way.

Battlezeon - in general I agree with your assessment on the pitfalls of wireless. However, in my case all ping times across the entire network are the same whether it's a wireless or wired node. In addition, the signal strengths on either AP are between 96-100%, and most importantly odd in my situation is when bridging the DVRs to the 802.11 b/g AP everything works as expected. I can even stream HD reasonably well.

Thanks for the suggestions guys, I will figure this out! My first troubleshooting step tonight is to simply switch the APs, obviously I'd like the DVRs bridged via N and not B/G so it that works great but I'll still want to see why that should make a difference.


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## Eskimo (Aug 2, 2010)

Pings send very small packets though..

Try running wireshark and watching the network when you push a multi-gig file - you'll likely see a bunch of re-transmitted packets even with good signal strength. Add in the overhead of WPA2, and battlezone's assessment gets right on.. it's the small buffers in the DVR's.


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## ChicagoTC (Sep 14, 2007)

Eskimo said:


> Pings send very small packets though..
> 
> Try running wireshark and watching the network when you push a multi-gig file - you'll likely see a bunch of re-transmitted packets even with good signal strength. Add in the overhead of WPA2, and battlezone's assessment gets right on.. it's the small buffers in the DVR's.


I hear what you're saying but that doesn't explain why all my DVRs appear when I bridge the two wireless DVRs to the 802.11g AP, but not to the 802.11N AP.

Last night just for curiosities sake I went into the config on the netgear bridges, picked the SSID for the 1242(802.11b/g) instead of the 1142(802.11n) and everything worked. I watched an HD epsiode of build it bigger with minimal studder.


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## armchair (Jul 27, 2009)

ChicagoTC said:


> Thanks, diagram is a bit out of date. There are no conflicts on the network I just needed to update the diagram.
> 
> Something on that procurve switch is preventing the DVRs from talking even though everything is pingable.


Do you have a filter somewhere in your network that's enabled to block multicast packets?

This poster used WireShark to narrow his problem to that here: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=181010&highlight=multicast

see post #10


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

I had similar problems using my LAN so I finally converted over to Whole Home DVR Service using DECA/SWM and mine has worked fine since I fine tuned it because the Installer had wired a couple of things wrong.

Mine now Works Flawlessly!!!

I think DECA can handle large volumes of A/V better as it is not competing with anything else and doesn't have to worry about Interference from Microwave Ovens, Wireless Phones, etc. and is Optimized for handling A/V.


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## Chris Blount (Jun 22, 2001)

I got sick of fiddling with my wireless network to get MRV to work. Switching to DECA was like night and day. I NEVER get any studders or other issues. It's nice not having to worry about it anymore.


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## wilbur_the_goose (Aug 16, 2006)

Chicago - I tried wireless endlessly during the beta and it was flakey at best.

Had DECA installed 2 weeks ago, and it's friggin' perfect. I really think you'd love DECA if you gave it a shot.

(PS - WHDVR has passed the spousal approval test with flying colors)


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Chris Blount said:


> I got sick of fiddling with my wireless network to get MRV to work. Switching to DECA was like night and day. I NEVER get any studders or other issues. It's nice not having to worry about it anymore.


Chris, I agree!!! Mine worked pretty good most of the time but there were those moments when A/V Video Packets were dropped and I had Pixellation and some Recorded Programs simply wouldn't transmit and I would get the A/V Packet Error Message and no Playback.

Now with DECA/SWM I am Very Pleased and MRV is working just the way I hoped it would when I first heard of it 4 years ago.


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## ChicagoTC (Sep 14, 2007)

Thanks guys, I'm well aware DECA is the better solution but I guess I'm stubborn here and want to figure out why it's not working. Also I really do use OTA on 2 TVs pretty often, I have an extra line at one now with the SWM install but I'd need to fish another for the 2nd TV if I move to DECA.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Sometimes One Must Overcome Their Weaknesses (Stubborness). :lol:

Get DECA WHDVR and be done with it and do a little Fishing!!! :lol:

You won't Regret it.


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## Chris Blount (Jun 22, 2001)

ChicagoTC said:


> Thanks guys, I'm well aware DECA is the better solution but I guess I'm stubborn here and want to figure out why it's not working. Also I really do use OTA on 2 TVs pretty often, I have an extra line at one now with the SWM install but I'd need to fish another for the 2nd TV if I move to DECA.


I was like you. Please stop the madness. Switch to DECA and go have a beer.


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## ChicagoTC (Sep 14, 2007)

You guys are extremely convincing. Moving to DECA would also require me getting over another issue I have. For some odd reason, I'd rather buy the DECA gear myself and pay more money and do the install myself. Any chance, I could schedule an install tell them I need 3 normal DECAs, an HR20-100 setup, and the broadband tie in and have the tech just leave em?


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## jpitlick (Apr 19, 2007)

ChicagoTC said:


> You guys are extremely convincing. Moving to DECA would also require me getting over another issue I have. For some odd reason, I'd rather buy the DECA gear myself and pay more money and do the install myself. Any chance, I could schedule an install tell them I need 3 normal DECAs, an HR20-100 setup, and the broadband tie in and have the tech just leave em?


Technically, the answer to your question is "No", but perhaps you could persuade ($$$) the installer to just leave the equipment.


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## dennisj00 (Sep 27, 2007)

Chicago,

Check the pinouts of your Ethernet wiring. . . be sure the pairs are matched. Things will ping fine if, for example, you have a mis-matched pair, but the higher data rates required by MRV just won't make it.

We've had several cases of this from several members that had flakey MRV in one or both directions.

You can order a 50 or 100' cable from Monoprice and bypass your connections to try specific dvrs for less than $10.

I've had 4 streams - 2 in / 2 out going on wireless n - 5Ghz - with no problems.

But in general, DECA gets rid of most of these variables. It still has a few quirks.


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## ChicagoTC (Sep 14, 2007)

Ok test complete, something odd in the way the 1142 is working. I moved the 1142 AP into the same switch as the 1242, associated the netgear bridges to the 1142 and lost the network DVRs, moved the bridges back to the 1242 and the DVRs reappear. 

Strange...

Time to dig my old Trendnet 802.11n AP out of the attic, create a dedicated DTV SSID and give it a whirl


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## wilbur_the_goose (Aug 16, 2006)

Chicago - I let Philly-area installers do the job. The guy that came out was fantastic and had everything done (new SWiM, new H24, DECAs, ICK) in about 2 hours.


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## bbrookfield (Apr 26, 2008)

Had the same issue and since you are using an AM21 for your local channels, try switching the USB cable from the AM21 to the USB port on the front of the DVR. It fixed the problem for me.

Let us know if this helps


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## doctrsnoop (Nov 20, 2007)

I've had a wga600n for a year and it was flakey. I had great signal strength an still could not stop the all too common pauses or even dropped out altogether. Just installed some DECA on two of my receivers, including the
Problem one and also
The DECA connection to the house router and the system works great. I'll eventually get them all over. I bought the DECA parts from eBay sellers for around
20 dollars each shipped and feel dumb for not doing it sooner.


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## ChicagoTC (Sep 14, 2007)

Perhaps the last update until I finally decide to go DECA. I had an older Trendnet 802.11n in my box of network goodies in my attic. I pulled it out, setup SSID directv put it on channel 11, as my other 2 APs are on 1 and 6. Setup the Netgear bridges to connect to this new SSID and whatta know, everything appears to be working. I'm currently watching an HD stream from 192.168.1.115 on 192.168.1.116 without any hiccups.


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## JamesTPDI (Jan 4, 2007)

Those are slow ping times. I have 1 mS or under in a local wired Ethernet network (2 or 3 switches depending on the reciever). I only see 3mS going thru 3 levels of switches and then over DECA to an H24.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

If you apply enough engineering to anything, it will almost certainly cease to function.

Mixing lots of computerly equipment and receivers probably isn't helping especially where wireless is involved. I would be surprised if your sound system wasn't shredding your wireless bandwidth.

I'd set up all of the receivers on a cheap dedicated gigabit switch and be done with it.


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## ChicagoTC (Sep 14, 2007)

JamesTPDI said:


> Those are slow ping times. I have 1 mS or under in a local wired Ethernet network (2 or 3 switches depending on the reciever). I only see 3mS going thru 3 levels of switches and then over DECA to an H24.


Those ping times are from a wireless notebook connected to one AP, connected to a switch, which is connected to another switch, which is connected to another AP which is bridged wireless to a receiver. The ping information was just to show network connectivity.


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## ChicagoTC (Sep 14, 2007)

harsh said:


> If you apply enough engineering to anything, it will almost certainly cease to function.
> 
> Mixing lots of computerly equipment and receivers probably isn't helping especially where wireless is involved. I would be surprised if your sound system wasn't shredding your wireless bandwidth.
> 
> I'd set up all of the receivers on a cheap dedicated gigabit switch and be done with it.


I over engineer for a living 

The Sonos does use 2.4ghz but it creates a proprietary mesh and doesn't use my other APs. There is interference issues of course, but I've set channels on the APs to eliminate this as much as possible.


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## wilbur_the_goose (Aug 16, 2006)

Chicago - for me, it's like changing the oil in my car. When I was 20, I'd do my old Mercury Comet (horrible car!) easily. Didn't mind at all.

But I'm 50 now, and finally figured out that some things are best done by others. MRV is one of them.

Yeah, I could do it myself (I'm an IT security professional with decades of software design/build experience), but why bother when a perfectly good solution is available for almost no cost?

Come on, my friend - come on over to the dark side


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