# Uncovered- the Model 625 DVR Rip off



## BobJ2004 (Feb 7, 2004)

Did anyone catch the fine print on the slides for todays Retailer chat.
I was at my retailer and they just happened to leave the channel on tonight for the replay.

Not only will the customer have to pay an extra $19.95 to lease the box,

they are also charged an inflated $4.95 instead of $3.95 to watch any On demand shows from the Hard Drive.


Let me see, if I understand this $20 more for the same User recording space as a 522 PLUS $4.95 pay per views from the Hard Drive.

Seems like the price is wrong, after all on the computer market the extra hard drive space is now the same price as the 522 hard drive price from a year ago.

I say lets all boy cot the 625 until they lower the Pay per view price.

Make sure all customers know the truths about the 625 before they order.


----------



## BFG (Jan 23, 2004)

yes, the 625 and VOD, PPV etc is stupid.... IMHO of course


----------



## larrystotler (Jun 6, 2004)

The $4.95 fee is for PPVs that are already recorded to the drive. You are paying an extra dollar for the convenience of not having to wait for it to start at a certain, but being able to start it right now. Some peope will see no problem with that, while others will think it is BS. To each their own. If I am not mistaken, you can still order a regular PPV for the regular $3.95. Also, E* may start showing PPVs on 1 channel instead of multiple channels with multiple start times, so this is another incentive to pay the extra $$. It would save them some sat space and give the customer quicker access to the programming. Of course, having it delete the PPV after 24hours is a crock unless there is a way to save it to the main storage area. The 625 will also probably be one of the few receivers able to interface with E*'s forthcoming portable media player, so that is another reason to go for it over the 522, which will probably be retired very shortly, so it will be a moot point.


----------



## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

But all the cable companies only charge $3.95 for instant on demand movies, Dish is $4.95

I bet you all that if many pay the $4.95 price Dish will cut way down on there $3.95 Pay Per view channels and then use the extra Bandwidth for more Shopping channels so they will make more money.


----------



## Anonymous (Jun 19, 2004)

scottchez said:


> But all the cable companies only charge $3.95 for instant on demand movies, Dish is $4.95


Satellite TV providers use most of their bandwidth virtually all the time and their set top boxes operate most of the time without two-way communication. Cable TV providers for the most part don't use most of their bandwidth virtually all the time and coax cables provide two-way communication for set top boxes. So by going with cable, you have less then half the TV channels to choose from but you do get two and only two benefits: better instant demand movies and zero effect by severe storms (except when the severe storm affects the cable company's reception). I hope Dish switches to this model accross the board. Each pay per view event should only be transmitted once and stored locally on the hard drive of your set top box. Then all but a couple of the channels currently dedicated to PPV could be used for regular channels and/or HDTV channels. The extra $1 goes towards the R&D necessary to write and maintain the software. So these boxes should have a tuner dedicated to downloaded PPV 24 hours a day so that getting the content won't depend on you not watching TV at the moment the PPV you wanted was transmitted. But should also allow you to override the settings so that you can pick which PPV to download even if later you decide not to purchase so that you can use that tuner to download non PPV content if you so choose. I'm finding that two tuners on my 522 are not enough. On average, 22+ hrs a day there is nothing on that I want to whatch. 2 hrs a day there are 8hrs of programming I do want to watch. I wish you could link two 522s via USB so that you can set you Dish Passes on on 522 and have it distribute the events accross all four tuners automatically. Otherwise, with 2 522s you have to be carefull to only set up each NBR event on one and only one of the 522s and then maintain priorities on two 522s. I'd like software and a USB cable to handle that.


----------



## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

You could have the PPV record to the hard drive and keep it there for $3.95 right now vs. paying $4.95 to watch it a little sooner and have it erase from your hard drive in only a day. 

Will you get to view that event all day just as you do on the all day ticket for $3.99?


----------



## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

The extra buck is part of the beancounter mentality that one day will wreck E.

There are so many advantages to E they shouldnt charge extra.

A single PPV download channel would save tons of bandwidth, and convenient PPVs allow true VOD to compete with cable to say nothing of a bigger PPV take rate since the movie you want ius always ready to begin at a moments notice.

Charlie has turned over the keys to his kingdom and we are all the worse for it.

This problem will be corrected when shoppers review the differences between satellite providers and cable. E new sub numbers will eventually get worse. Lots of people object to being nickled and dimed to death...

Chuck get you hand OUT OF MY POCKET!


----------



## finniganps (Jan 23, 2004)

Bob Haller said:


> The extra buck is part of the beancounter mentality that one day will wreck E.
> 
> There are so many advantages to E they shouldnt charge extra.
> 
> ...


Bob - MOVE to D*. I don't understand why you stay with E* since it is so obvious to everyone how UNHAPPY you are with DISH. Quit complaining about them and move so that we can all hear how great D* is. You sold the rental and can cut down the tree blocking your view for D*........so I don't get why you don't either stop bashing E* or move to D*?????


----------



## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

My comment wasnt bashing its a fact, over time the nickel and diming can damage sub numbers.

Currently I am a man on a mission pAY OFF OUR MORTAGE! Its down to 7 grand every dime is going to that.

currently my boxes are working ok, and the tree removal will cost a grand, and our furnace is bad and jen wants a new car.

one thing at a time, once the mortage is over we will have $900 more a month to do things with


----------



## juan ellitinez (Jan 31, 2003)

Bob Haller said:


> My comment wasnt bashing its a fact, over time the nickel and diming can damage sub numbers.
> 
> Currently I am a man on a mission pAY OFF OUR MORTAGE! Its down to 7 grand every dime is going to that.
> 
> ...


There really isnt much cost difference between E* and D* The way i see it is that the thrifty folk(ahem cheap) will find a way to avoid most E*'s nickle and dime fee's :lol:


----------



## HTguy (May 7, 2002)

Why call it a rip-off? It's just an extra service you can elect to use or not use.

Some people may enjoy the convenience of selecting a new movie that was downloaded overnight and the abilty to come in late and stay for the beginning, etc.

If you're like me you'll watch the schedule, pay the regular PPV fee and save it for a while on the HDD. (Actually, I hardly ever buy PPVs.)

But a lot of people want instant gratification and don't want to search through guides & listings only to have to wait for a movie to start. I'm sure they won't mind paying another buck for the privelege.


----------



## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

A lot of people are impulse shoppers. If they can get it now they want it as they are anxious to get the service.


----------



## mitchedo (Apr 1, 2005)

BobJ2004 said:


> Did anyone catch the fine print on the slides for todays Retailer chat.
> 
> they are also charged an inflated $4.95 instead of $3.95 to watch any On demand shows from the Hard Drive.
> 
> ...


I just stop by the video store when there's something I want to watch, take it home, rip it to my HTPC, and take the video back the next day while I'm out. I watch the movie when I'm ready, then delete it. PPV might be nice, but the local mom and pop video store is cheaper.

I see lots of complaining about Dish. I've done my share. ...but we still buy the service. I'm waiting until the MPEG4 thing stabilizes, then will jump ship to DirecTV as a new subscriber. I've been with Dish about 7 years, and paid $300 each for my old 4500 and 5500. The old receivers are so slow, I can't even use the program guide any more. I've watched all the new subscribers get all the goodies, and it's really irrated me. It took Dish over a year before they gave me the privilege of leasing a refurbished 522 for $149, while giving them away to new subscribers.

I'm not complaining, but I will be jumping ship once the MPEG4 conversion is settled in a couple of years. ...gonna make sure I get all I can get too, cuz DirecTV is probably no better.


----------



## larrystotler (Jun 6, 2004)

mitchedo said:


> I just stop by the video store when there's something I want to watch, take it home, rip it to my HTPC, and take the video back the next day while I'm out. I watch the movie when I'm ready, then delete it. PPV might be nice, but the local mom and pop video store is cheaper.


Technically, what you are doing is illegal according to the DMCA, just like my watching a DVD on my Linux box. Regardless of whether you delete the copy, you are still considered to be breaking the law. Aint the US just SO great sometimes..........


----------



## kb7oeb (Jun 16, 2004)

Bob Haller said:


> A single PPV download channel would save tons of bandwidth, and convenient PPVs allow true VOD to compete with cable to say nothing of a bigger PPV take rate since the movie you want ius always ready to begin at a moments notice.


Setting aside the cost I think thats a great idea, depending on hd size and all they could even download them faster than real time since the video is pre-encoded.


----------



## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

I doubt they can download them faster than real-time. They're already compressed to the point of garbage just to stream them at normal speed.


----------



## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

Bob Haller said:


> My comment wasnt bashing its a fact, over time the nickel and diming can damage sub numbers.
> 
> Currently I am a man on a mission pAY OFF OUR MORTAGE! Its down to 7 grand every dime is going to that.
> 
> ...


How big is the tree?? Cost me $150 to take down the tree blocking my dish.


----------



## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

He doesn't want to cut down the tree because then he wouldn't have an excuse to drop by here and leave his "helpful hints".


----------



## Mike Richardson (Jun 12, 2003)

SimpleSimon said:


> I doubt they can download them faster than real-time. They're already compressed to the point of garbage just to stream them at normal speed.


Right now say they put 10 PPV per transponder, instead they can put 1 PPV on the transponder with the same compression, and just send it 10x faster. As long as the hard drive in the DVR can handle writing it that quickly, and as long as the tuner can process that data as quickly, then they could send on demand PPV in this fashion.

The only problem is that for 12 minutes (120 min movie) the transponder would be blacked out while you send out this movie. However, if that transponder only carries regular type PPV channels anyway, you could just set those channels off air while you blast the on demand movie.

You could send 1 movie per night, ahead of time, and then "reveal" the movie on the receiver when it's officially released to PPV. That keeps your downtime to just 12 minutes per night (for 2 hr movie) on that one transponder.


----------



## larrystotler (Jun 6, 2004)

Technically, if you are using both tuners, the box wouldn't be able to pull the PPVs to save them. In Europe, you can get a DVB card that will allow you to watch another channel on the same transponder while it is recording something else. That is the limit. Same transponder.


----------



## kb7oeb (Jun 16, 2004)

In the middle of the night a lot of the ppv channels go off air for a while. During that time they could blast down a couple movies. If your box was busy at the time it could try and get them the next night.


----------

