# Worth Converting From DirecTV?



## jdubbyap (Feb 2, 2008)

I have had D* service for going on 9 years, but have recently learned that I can save about $30 a month by switching to DishHD. I am not a big fan of having to have a base package with the channels I want in order to receive their HD counterpart when all I really watch are channels in HD. I have called to cancel D* and am scheduled to have E* installed sometime next week. My question is this, will I be disappointed with the quality? After setting up the install and canceling my current service I read that E*'s PQ is inferior to that of D*. Another question I have is in regards to the 722 receiver I will be getting. How does it compare to the HR20? I have had speed issues with the HR20 when changing channels/menu response and am curious if they will be resolved with the 722. Thanks in advance for the posts.


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## purtman (Sep 19, 2006)

We actually decided to convert yesterday and have an installer coming out next week. From what I've seen, I've read that E*'s picture quality is both superior or inferior to D*'s, depending on whom you speak to. You can just get the HD if you want just HD channels at just $29.99 per month.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

Here's a thread some someone that has both E* and D* and his comment about PQ, http://www.satelliteguys.us/dish-network-vs-directv-war-zone/140887-all-e-hd-pq.html . The thing about PQ threads is that alot of it is subjective so take it for what it's worth.


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## jdubbyap (Feb 2, 2008)

Wow, after reading that thread I'm beginning to wonder if I just made a huge mistake by making the switch.


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## grooves12 (Oct 27, 2005)

jdubbyap said:


> Wow, after reading that thread I'm beginning to wonder if I just made a huge mistake by making the switch.


I was a long-time customer of DirecTV and quite happy with them... my parents still have them, so I am familiar with their latest equipment. When I moved to my new condo, I did not have line of site for any satellites under 110, so DirecTV was out... and Dish was in.

To answer your two questions: Yes, DirecTV has better picture quality on the HD channels... but Dish has been improving lately and my guess will catch up eventually as they get more bandwidth and the Mpeg4 decoders mature. But, Dish's HD still looks pretty good and if you are not a completely perfectionist like me, probably won't notice much difference.

But, on the Hardware side, the 622/722 are a LOT better than the HR20. The HR20 have prettier menus and a lot of gimmixky features thrown in... but like you said it can be sluggish and worst of all still has problems randomly missing recordings or recording 2 hours of a black screen. The Dish DVR's are always snappy, easy to use, and just WORK.... all the time.

So, IMO one +, one -... so overall I think they are about even. With the money you will save based on your viewing habits, you may be happier with Dish.


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

If HD is important to you, DirecTV is going to have a lot more to offer. DirecTV11, the last of their 4-satellite HD expansion, is due to come online shortly.

If low price is important to you, Dish has the HD-only package for less money, but fewer channels. Dish isn't going to have *significant* new HD capacity for some time.

Only you can decide where your priorities are.


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## Mr-Rick (Dec 1, 2004)

jdubbyap said:


> I have had D* service for going on 9 years, but have recently learned that I can save about $30 a month by switching to DishHD. I am not a big fan of having to have a base package with the channels I want in order to receive their HD counterpart when all I really watch are channels in HD. I have called to cancel D* and am scheduled to have E* installed sometime next week. My question is this, will I be disappointed with the quality? After setting up the install and canceling my current service I read that E*'s PQ is inferior to that of D*. Another question I have is in regards to the 722 receiver I will be getting. How does it compare to the HR20? I have had speed issues with the HR20 when changing channels/menu response and am curious if they will be resolved with the 722. Thanks in advance for the posts.


Contact a local dealer in your area for the best deal. Avoid 1-800 numbers. We recently offered a 722/612/211 combination with 24 month commitment for $0.00. Savings of $99. Directv equivalent would cost several hundred dollars... Call the local dishman, tell him you are shopping and ask if he can beat the national promotion.

Rick


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

IIP said:


> DirecTV11, the last of their 4-satellite HD expansion, is due to come online shortly.


FYI - D*'s said D12 will go up in 2009 for more HD capacity.


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## DBS Commando (Apr 7, 2006)

IIP said:


> If HD is important to you, DirecTV is going to have a lot more to offer. DirecTV11, the last of their 4-satellite HD expansion, is due to come online shortly.
> 
> If low price is important to you, Dish has the HD-only package for less money, but fewer channels. Dish isn't going to have *significant* new HD capacity for some time.
> 
> Only you can decide where your priorities are.


Dish has multiple transponders with 15 open slots left over from voom. Plenty of room to get Fox's HD channels and Viacoms. They just need to work out contracts.

Not to mention, Dish has Travel Channel HD and ABC Family HD while D* does not.

Space isn't an issue for them right now, it's all contractual issues.


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

jdubbyap said:


> Wow, after reading that thread I'm beginning to wonder if I just made a huge mistake by making the switch.


The PQ seems great to me. I think most of the problems lies with the providers.


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

DBS Commando said:


> Dish has multiple transponders with 15 open slots left over from voom. Plenty of room to get Fox's HD channels and Viacoms. They just need to work out contracts.
> 
> Not to mention, Dish has Travel Channel HD and ABC Family HD while D* does not.
> 
> Space isn't an issue for them right now, it's all contractual issues.


Knowing the history of how Charlie tends to play hardball with contracts, that could be worse than them not even having the bandwidth.

:lol:


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## DBS Commando (Apr 7, 2006)

CCarncross said:


> Knowing the history of how Charlie tends to play hardball with contracts, that could be worse than them not even having the bandwidth.
> 
> :lol:


It's just a matter of him trying to keep prices low for his subs. Rumor has it that he is currently working on a huge deal with Viacom and all of their HD channels.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

DBS Commando said:


> It's just a matter of him trying to keep prices low for his subs. Rumor has it that he is currently working on a huge deal with Viacom and all of their HD channels.


That's too bad.


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## Hound (Mar 20, 2005)

jdubbyap said:


> will I be disappointed with the quality? After setting up the install and canceling my current service I read that E*'s PQ is inferior to that of D*. Another question I have is in regards to the 722 receiver I will be getting. How does it compare to the HR20? I have had speed issues with the HR20 when changing channels/menu response and am curious if they will be resolved with the 722. Thanks in advance for the posts.


No you will not be disappointed with the quality. I have both E* and D* now. The quality is about the same. The software for the 722 is much faster than the software for the HR21-700. there will be no speed issues. The only question is
whether you are going to get the HD channels that you want. I have the HD only
package and it is good. However, you cannot get an RSN or subscribe to the sports pack with HD only. It all depends on whether that is important to you or not.


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## jdubbyap (Feb 2, 2008)

Thanks for all the posts, I feel a little more at ease with my decision to switch. The only HD channels I will miss are FX and Spike, but hopefully they are on the short list for E*'s next wave of additions. It kind of sucks that you can't get your RSN with the DishHD package, but a majority of the games in my area were SD anyway. 

As for the comment about using a local retailer, that is some great advice. Not only do you get better deals in some cases, you have a local contact if you have any future problems with the setup. It doesn't hurt to help out your local economy, either.


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## MrMojoJojo (May 23, 2008)

another thing to keep in mind is that while an HD only package is good... what about the channels you watch that _aren't_ in HD yet? Granted, most broadcasters are working on fixing that problem, but i know that there are quite a few channels I enjoy so much that it really makes no difference to me if they are in HD.

For example: what would be the benefit of an HD version of Colbert? PQ doesn't make the jokes any more/less funny.


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## jdubbyap (Feb 2, 2008)

With the package I have right now I receive every SD channel that isn't premium along with their HD simulcast (if any). I rarely watch anything in SD anymore, and I took that into consideration when making my choice. I think it is only a matter of time before Comedy Central ends up in HD on one of the two providers, but in the meantime I'll log on to their website the day after to watch Colbert.


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## Hound (Mar 20, 2005)

If you go with the HD only package, you will not get a RSN in SD either. You have to be prepared to live without an RSN.

Where I live there are five 
HD RSNs plus Big Ten Network HD. I have D* and cable so that I get 
all six in HD.


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## RasputinAXP (Jan 23, 2008)

Hound said:


> If you go with the HD only package, you will not get a RSN in SD either. You have to be prepared to live without an RSN.
> 
> Where I live there are five
> HD RSNs plus Big Ten Network HD. I have D* and cable so that I get
> all six in HD.


Sure, keep reminding me I can't get SNY in South Jersey.


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## Hound (Mar 20, 2005)

RasputinAXP said:


> Sure, keep reminding me I can't get SNY in South Jersey.


E* does not provide SNY in Central NJ either. But D*, Verizon and Comcast do.


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## purtman (Sep 19, 2006)

Richard King said:


> That's too bad.


What do you mean by this? You're usually a pretty straight shooter so I was wondering what the comment meant. Thanks!


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

purtman said:


> What do you mean by this? You're usually a pretty straight shooter so I was wondering what the comment meant. Thanks!


He means that Charlie's "negotiations" often result in Dish not carrying programming that other services carry, because Charlie refuses to pay the asking price, leaving Dish customers without the option to get that programming at any price.


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## clyde sauls (Nov 16, 2007)

my other half didnt really care whether channels were in hd or not. After CNN came in Hd . One day he stated there sure is a difference. I have dish and have on CNN right now and the Hd channel is super.


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## RasputinAXP (Jan 23, 2008)

Hound said:


> E* does not provide SNY in Central NJ either. But D*, Verizon and Comcast do.


I'm still waiting for MSG HD too. *sigh*


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## jdubbyap (Feb 2, 2008)

Well I had E* installed on Wednesday and I must say aside from missing FX & Spike in HD, the switch was a very smart one. I see no depreciation in PQ from DirecTV on the HD side of things, but can't say the same for SD. Fortunately I went with the DishHD package so SD isn't a major concern. The ViP722 is 10X better than the HR20 with the exception of the tedious process in scheduling a recording. Overall I am very pleased.


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## archer75 (Oct 13, 2006)

The last time I had direct was almost 2 years ago when I switched to dish. I found the HD picture quality to be the same but Dish had signficantly better SD picture quality. I watch it on a front projector so when everything is as large as it is I can see a difference. 

I dumped Direct because to get the MPEG4 receivers i'd have to give up my Direct Tivo and the new Direct hardware at the time was horrible. If they stayed with Tivo i'd probably still be there. 
But the Dish DVR is great too.


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

jdubbyap said:


> Well I had E* installed on Wednesday and I must say aside from missing FX & Spike in HD, the switch was a very smart one. I see no depreciation in PQ from DirecTV on the HD side of things, but can't say the same for SD. Fortunately I went with the DishHD package so SD isn't a major concern. The ViP722 is 10X better than the HR20 with the exception of the tedious process in scheduling a recording. Overall I am very pleased.


Tedious process to scheduling a recording? Highlight the item to be scheduled in the guide, press the record button select once, new, etc. on recurring types of shows. On movies press the record button and hit the big Select button and done. or use search and the same options apply. I haven't found it tedious at all.


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## Jason Nipp (Jun 10, 2004)

RAD said:


> FYI - D*'s said D12 will go up in 2009 for more HD capacity.


E*11 goes up this month. I don't understand your point RAD. E* also has two birds ready to go up. Too bad E* lost the last SES bird..., which was completely out of their control. In any case E* does have some extra capacity right now. Contracts and such...


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

Jason Nipp said:


> E*11 goes up this month. I don't understand your point RAD. E* also has two birds ready to go up. Too bad E* lost the last SES bird..., which was completely out of their control. In any case E* does have some extra capacity right now. Contracts and such...


If you'd read the quote I was responding to which was _"DirecTV11, the last of their 4-satellite HD expansion, is due to come online shortly." _I was pointing out that D* has said they will now use D12 to more HD capacity so it's not the last of thier HD expansion. Do you under stand now?

Now with that out of the way, how much will these 'two birds' go toward actually providing increased capacity to provide new channels vs. providing capacity for the 'eastern arc' which will require much duplication of programming to keep both the old infrastructure and the new eastern arc going?


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

E11 is going to 110, allowing one of the birds there to be moved to support Eastern Arc. Ciel 2 is going to 129 to replace failing E5, and will add 4 transponders of capacity, since there are currently 4 broken ones on E5.

Thus, these two launches won't create a substantial amount of new bandwidth (not counting the duplication needed for Eastern Arc).

D11 is adding a bunch of CONUS-wide transponder space, plus some spot beams, which *is* a significant capacity upgrade for DirecTV.

Dish does have some true expansion plans, including some Ka-capable satellites, coming down the pike, but they're quite a ways out. Getting a satellite into space is a LONG process...


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

DISH currently (today) has space for 20 odd channels of HD (15 of them were Voom and there were some other test channels when the last batch of "22" were added). What is the point of complaining about DISH not adding a lot more bandwidth with their launches when they have unused bandwidth NOW for any channel they need to add?

The next satellite will add stability to the network (a good thing). A nice solid HD signal from 110° while DirecTV's Ka signals are rain faded into oblivion. The new satellite for 129° will provide more locals markets and shore up that location.

"Eastern Arc and Western Arc" may seem like duplication but 1) DISH has the space and satellites to do it and 2) that plan adds a lot of new markets on a single dish. Plus DISH dishes will be smaller, easier to aim (and reaim when needed) and pointed at DBS satellites --- not Ku or FSS (unless you want internationals).

DISH has "thrown away" more bandwidth than DirecTV will have ... there are plenty of other comparison points - but giving DirecTV an alleged edge because of bandwidth? Nah.


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## jdubbyap (Feb 2, 2008)

TBoneit said:


> Tedious process to scheduling a recording? Highlight the item to be scheduled in the guide, press the record button select once, new, etc. on recurring types of shows. On movies press the record button and hit the big Select button and done. or use search and the same options apply. I haven't found it tedious at all.


Compared to what I have been used to, that is a longer process. I am in no way saying D* is better, but all I had to do in order to record a series was press the record button twice and once if I wanted a single recording, all from the guide. E*'s process isn't difficult but there are a couple more clicks that weren't required with D*.


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

James Long said:


> What is the point of complaining about DISH not adding a lot more bandwidth with their launches when they have unused bandwidth NOW for any channel they need to add?


I wasn't complaining; I was merely pointing out the difference. It is clear from a lot of posts that people are assuming that "new sat launch = lots of new HD bandwidth", and that's not necessarily the case. As you point out, Dish currently has unused bandwidth available, so right now, bandwidth isn't the issue.



> The next satellite will add stability to the network (a good thing). A nice solid HD signal from 110° while DirecTV's Ka signals are rain faded into oblivion. The new satellite for 129° will provide more locals markets and shore up that location.


Both upgrades are definitely needed, and people all over the country will be very happy to see their 129 signals go from 35-40 or worse to 60-65!



> "Eastern Arc and Western Arc" may seem like duplication but 1) DISH has the space and satellites to do it and 2) that plan adds a lot of new markets on a single dish. Plus DISH dishes will be smaller, easier to aim (and reaim when needed) and pointed at DBS satellites --- not Ku or FSS (unless you want internationals).


Let's be honest: the duplication IS a waste of bandwidth that would be better used by unique content. Dish just doesn't have a lot of other options, given that DirecTV grabbed the prime 101 real estate first. With DirecTV in the center of the country, Dish has to put up birds on each side to serve the country as well, which is more expensive, more complicated, and more to go wrong. Not to mention more service calls to change dishes. Dish isn't doing this because they *can*, as much as because they have to.

It will certainly be better for eastern Dish customers in the long run, no doubt about it. But, ideally, those satellites could be providing a lot more unique content instead of duplicating the same content to overlapping footprints.



> DISH has "thrown away" more bandwidth than DirecTV will have ... there are plenty of other comparison points - but giving DirecTV an alleged edge because of bandwidth? Nah.


Maybe, but it was leased bandwidth on less desirable frequencies that were a lot more expensive to support, which was why Dish abandoned it. And they were smart to.

Keep in mind that I work for Dish, as an installation subcontractor. I _want_ them to do well, as my business depends on them doing well. That doesn't mean that I don't have my eyes open. Even Dish executives have admitted that DirecTV had a good plan for HD and implemented it very well. Dish, as is typical, does better work "on the ground" (receivers, installers) but not as well "in the sky" with all of their constant shuffling around of their content onto various different sat locations. It's not like that's any big secret.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

IIP said:


> Let's be honest: the duplication IS a waste of bandwidth that would be better used by unique content. Dish just doesn't have a lot of other options, given that DirecTV grabbed the prime 101 real estate first.


DirecTV did OK getting 101°, a few transponders on 119° and those three oddball transponders on 110°. This required a full 18° satellite arc of line of sight before considering HD and only 46 transponders to use as ConUS or for spots. DISH has 50 transponders on the old faithful Dish500 (119°+110°) requiring half the line of sight. The wings were bonus space ... perhaps if DISH didn't have them they would have gone into high density spot beam satellites such as DirecTV's sooner. One prime spot vs a nice pair? I believe DISH did OK.


> With DirecTV in the center of the country, Dish has to put up birds on each side to serve the country as well, which is more expensive, more complicated, and more to go wrong. Not to mention more service calls to change dishes. Dish isn't doing this because they *can*, as much as because they have to.


They don't have to. It is a choice. We could all be using a SuperDISH with 105° or 121°, but DISH made the choice to go with DBS satellites for their future.


> It will certainly be better for eastern Dish customers in the long run, no doubt about it. But, ideally, those satellites could be providing a lot more unique content instead of duplicating the same content to overlapping footprints.


I'm still looking for the content. What is missing that couldn't fit into the 20 HD slots already available via existing DISH satellites? It isn't a case of DISH not being able to add Speed HD because they need to uplink ESPN2 HD to both 61.5° and 129°. There is a different issue there ... it isn't "wasted bandwidth".


> Maybe, but it was leased bandwidth on less desirable frequencies that were a lot more expensive to support, which was why Dish abandoned it. And they were smart to.


121° is owned. 105° continues to be used for special feeds. Not part of the regular system but still in service.


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## Jason Nipp (Jun 10, 2004)

James Long said:


> DISH currently (today) has space for 20 odd channels of HD (15 of them were Voom and there were some other test channels when the last batch of "22" were added). What is the point of complaining about DISH not adding a lot more bandwidth with their launches when they have unused bandwidth NOW for any channel they need to add?...DISH has "thrown away" more bandwidth than DirecTV will have ... there are plenty of other comparison points - but giving DirecTV an alleged edge because of bandwidth? Nah.


This is the point I was trying to communicate.



RAD said:


> If you'd read the quote I was responding to which was _"DirecTV11, the last of their 4-satellite HD expansion, is due to come online shortly." _I was pointing out that D* has said they will now use D12 to more HD capacity so it's not the last of thier HD expansion. Do you under stand now?


You really do not need to be so abrasive RAD. Refer back to James post to understand where I was trying to go.

On a not aimed at anyone in particular note:
Really,.... why is it the D* guys have a tendency to jump into the E* forums to defend D* so much.

I think the E* forum goers need to start doing the same. I say E* guys need to start interjecting their 2 cents into similar threads within the D* forums. Hey fair is fair right? I will not reprimand anyone that wishes to do this within reason.


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## Jason Nipp (Jun 10, 2004)

IIP said:


> Let's be honest: the duplication IS a waste of bandwidth that would be better used by unique content.


I both agree and disagree with this comment. The duplication does seem to be a waste of bandwidth. What's worse is that some of these duplicates are even spread across 3 or more orbits. But eastern verses western arc does serve more homes with more fade resistance. I say resistance because w all know it does not eliminate fade.

Real question here, not an attempt at a slam.....Does D* serve Alaska, Hawaii, and Puerto Rico?


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

Jason Nipp said:


> You really do not need to be so abrasive RAD. Refer back to James post to understand where I was trying to go.
> 
> On a not aimed at anyone in particular note:
> Really,.... why is it the D* guys have a tendency to jump into the E* forums to defend D* so much.
> ...


Jason, I wasn't coming in and saying that E* sucks and you're a dummy for staying with D* now was I? All I posted was a correction to a prior post that was incorrect which you said you didn't understand, all I was doing was trying to help you understand. If you want to play games with James be my guest, just leave me out of it and don't jump on me when I answer your questions.


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## Jason Nipp (Jun 10, 2004)

RAD said:


> I wasn't coming in and saying that E* sucks and you're a dummy for staying with D* now was I?


And I put a note in there saying I wasn't aiming that anyone in particular. It has long been a habit of D* posters to jump into the E* forums and do this... And it is getting old.

And no matter how many times I re-read your previous post... I still take it as abrasive. Perhaps it wasn't meant that way, but the way I interpret the wording it certainly appears that way.

I am not playing any games, just stating how I am perceiving your post.

That's the funny thing with text.... you know....... it's physically emotionless. So many people, including myself, have to take it literally.


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

Jason Nipp said:


> I both agree and disagree with this comment. The duplication does seem to be a waste of bandwidth. What's worse is that some of these duplicates are even spread across 3 or more orbits.


And that's what I'm getting at. Wouldn't we all be happier if Dish could use a lot of that redunant bandwidth for new content?

And, James, I'm aware that, today, there are only a handful of HD channels that Dish doesn't have up, and they will likely have those up soon, once some contracts are worked out. But we all know that over the next 3 years, nearly every network is going to convert to HD, and we're all going to want all of those channels, even if those channels only carry HD content part-time, as many current ones do now.



> But eastern verses western arc does serve more homes with more fade resistance.


This is absolutely true, no question.



> Real question here, not an attempt at a slam.....Does D* serve Alaska, Hawaii, and Puerto Rico?


Yes, they do, and have for a long time. I had an installer who worked for me two years ago from PR, who got his start with DirecTV there. And my old HSP had a couple of techs from Hawaii.

Again, my goal and desire is for Dish to be awesome. That benefits not only Dish customers, but cable and DirecTV customers too, because competition improves service for all. I'm not here to put Dish down. Dish was the HD leader for a good while, and that helped push DirecTV to improve. Now DirecTV is the leader, and that's going to push Dish to improve. Ultimately, that's a big win for TV viewers in general, except maybe for Uverse customers. Those poor, clueless Uverse customers...


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## Jason Nipp (Jun 10, 2004)

IIP said:


> Dish was the HD leader for a good while, and that helped push DirecTV to improve. Now DirecTV is the leader, and that's going to push Dish to improve.


I agree. In fact I have stated this on several occasions.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Jason Nipp said:


> I both agree and disagree with this comment. The duplication does seem to be a waste of bandwidth. What's worse is that some of these duplicates are even spread across 3 or more orbits. But eastern verses western arc does serve more homes with more fade resistance. I say resistance because w all know it does not eliminate fade.
> 
> Real question here, not an attempt at a slam.....Does D* serve Alaska, Hawaii, and Puerto Rico?


DIRECTV serves Alaska and Hawaii, albeit with 1.2m dishes. Not sure about Puerto Rico.

As for rainfade, that is purely a matter of effective radiated energy and frequency coupled with angle to the satellite, as that affects the length of the "rain forest" the signal travels. A centrally located satellite has a short length to the center of the nation but longer lengths to the edges. East and West duality has shorter to the edges but could have longer to the center. (As well as duplication of all the facilities...)

Cheers,
Tom


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