# DirecTV's D-HR20P HD DVR



## newsposter (Nov 13, 2003)

http://www.engadget.com/2006/04/03/directv-shows-off-1-500-d-hr20p-hd-dvr/

As much as we'd like to find out more information about DirecTV's D-HR20P HD DVR, pretty much everything we know, we've already said. The box, which the satellite broadcaster showed off at EHX last week, apparently has 750GB capacity, an integrated HD receiver, and will sell for between $1,500 and $2,000. If it's ever released, that is. Since DirecTV insists this isn't a "consumer device" (and it certainly does have a sort of retro-industrial, rack-mount look to it), it may just be a prototype box designed to show that the company is committed to rolling out bigger and better HD solutions.

DIRECTV quietly announced a new HD DVR at EHX this past week. Despite my constant drilling, the DIRECTV representative couldn't satisfy my curiosity. He did indicate that the reason this device wasn't at CES was because it's not a consumer device. He did on the other hand tell me that it will have 750GB of capacity and run between $1500 and $2000. Not sure if we have reason to be excited other than the fact that our local watering hole might get one. He wasn't able to tell me how many TVs it supported, but he did say it will run similar software to their new MPEG4 HD DVR due this fall. Plus it has a cool display right on the front and is rack mountable.

As a side note they had the same HD DVR in the plastic box as they had at CES, which isn't encouraging, but it was interesting that it had a "Pace" anti tamper sticker on it, which makes me wonder if Pace is making the next gen box.


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## thxultra (Feb 1, 2005)

newsposter said:


> http://www.engadget.com/2006/04/03/directv-shows-off-1-500-d-hr20p-hd-dvr/
> 
> As much as we'd like to find out more information about DirecTV's D-HR20P HD DVR, pretty much everything we know, we've already said. The box, which the satellite broadcaster showed off at EHX last week, apparently has 750GB capacity, an integrated HD receiver, and will sell for between $1,500 and $2,000. If it's ever released, that is. Since DirecTV insists this isn't a "consumer device" (and it certainly does have a sort of retro-industrial, rack-mount look to it), it may just be a prototype box designed to show that the company is committed to rolling out bigger and better HD solutions.
> 
> ...


Any ideas on what the new consumer hd dvr will cost. i heald off on getting a dvr with my new direc tv install because of the mpeg 4 switch and don't want to buy twice. I will be looking towards a mpeg 4 dvr once they come out though.


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## newsposter (Nov 13, 2003)

no ideas but it's fair to say it will be equal to or above the 499 they now charge (unless newer gets cheaper...nahhh)


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

newsposter said:


> no ideas but it's fair to say it will be equal to or above the 499 they now charge (unless newer gets cheaper...nahhh)


The January 13th Executive Summary placed the lease entry price at $299 and it turned out to be $499. It is anybody's guess, but I can't imagine that it will remain $200 more than E* charges for long. Then again, I can't imagine why the new machine is still five months or more away.


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## gregftlaud (Nov 20, 2005)

if this new box is gonna cost 1500 bucks how in the world are they going to do the free swapout to those of us who already have the hd dvr when each market upgrades to mpeg4......like they promised. ?????


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## sorahl (Oct 24, 2002)

HOW on earth do thye expect people to pay that much for this????? Unbelievable
I'm getting so pissed off at everything just costing a small mortgage!


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

Please remember that this is not the regular consumer model, this is supposed to be the professional model, its not meant for most of the regular customers....you might be getting upset over nothing


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

CCarncross said:


> Please remember that this is not the regular consumer model, this is supposed to be the professional model, its not meant for most of the regular customers....you might be getting upset over nothing


Then who ta &#[email protected] is it meant for? You can build a great looking box with light and such, but at > $1000 and given the R15 software......who's gonna buy it? No professional I'm aware of.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

R15 software issues asside.

This particular unit is intended for those who are dropping $60k on a "true" home theater system... This particular unit is even out of my league... until I get the other half of my basement done...


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## squawk (Mar 5, 2006)

Curious, how do rate the software interface of the H20, with u'r experience with the HR10-250, which is TiVo? 

I chose the H20 over the HR10-250, & now am slowly coming to regret it b/c the H20's software is piece of $#!t. I HAD figured I'd survive with the H20 wired to my completely analog Replay DVR, & anxiously await the release of the HR20. I now fear its release to find out that the software interface will most likely be no different than the H20 except w/the record-managed functions.

It's no surpise why the HR20 has been delayed time after time, given all the problems I am now aware of with the H20. Unfortunately, D* is unlike MSFT, which is quick to release patches to fix bugs in its software. Instead, for better or worse, engineers @ NDS may be re-writing some of the core code. I really dunno. But I'm appalled that some of the glitches went undetected prior to release of the H20, as well as the lack of effort on the part of D* to quickly fix what appear to be less than major glitches.

Problem is one can never get a straight answer as to when D* will begin delivery of national HD in MPEG-4, when the HR20 is scheduled for release (understanding that with each month the likely release date slips 1 or 2 months), when D* will forcibly wean HR10-250 owners/renters off their machines as the transition to MPEG-4 programming ramps up.


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## dhodges (Apr 10, 2006)

I just upgraded to the MPEG-4 dish b/c I bought an HDTV. I am holding off on getting the HD Tivo machine in order to get the new one from DirecTV.

I asked DirecTV rep on the phone when the new HD DVR would be out and she said "later this month" (yeah, right).

I then asked the tech who came to install the new dish. He said he heard another 2-3 months.

This is frustrating. Anyone know more? Why is it so hard to get this product to the market? Seems like they would make a bunch of money off people replacing their TIVO's...


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> R15 software issues asside.
> 
> This particular unit is intended for those who are dropping $60k on a "true" home theater system


The software issue would be magnified 10X for somebody who dropped 60K on a HT and then $1500-2000 on this box. People who spend that amount of money won't put up with R15 type bugs.

Its one thing to have bug in a free box, but not one you spend $2000 on. Earl you are bound to remember how the HR10-250 was picked apart when it came out for half the price. And it doesn't have near the bugs the R15 has.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

squawk said:


> Unfortunately, D* is unlike MSFT, which is quick to release patches to fix bugs in its software.


You couldn't possibly be talking about Micro$oft. There are patches coming out tomorrow that have been known critical bugs for more than six months. There is an industry that has grown up around identifying and tracking Windows and Office bugs. There are issues that have gone 18 months since being reported without a peep from Redmond.

With Microsoft, there isn't a problem until they've got what they think is a patch. This is why we're starting to see third party patches to critical system flaws (as opposed to general firewalls and anti-malware solutions).

Of course none of this excuses the foot-dragging that seems to be going on with the MPEG4 DVR... The longer they wait, the more the leasing public is going to expect that the kinks will be worked out. As our brothers and sisters from the other side of the pond will aver, time does not heal bugs at NDS.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

I totaly would agree, that a $2k box will be destroyed if the issues aren't corrected by then.

BTW... If you don't like the Interface of the R15, H20, D10.... time to leave DirecTV... That particular interface is the basis for all their next generation products.

Like it or not.... the GUI on those units, is the GUI that is going to be on all new products for the forseable future.

Aslo... I don't think the HR20 (the non-professional version), has been delayed... since they never formally announced a release date.. 

The most solid information I had seen was late Q2 into Q3 time frame.

Still 3-6 months to go on that.


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> IAslo... I don't think the HR20 (the non-professional version), has been delayed... since they never formally announced a release date......The most solid information I had seen was late Q2 into Q3 time frame.


I thought Chase said at the September analyst call that it would be 1Q.


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## newsposter (Nov 13, 2003)

Herdfan said:


> I thought Chase said at the September analyst call that it would be 1Q.


or maybe it was at that magical meeting where they said no rate increases? :nono2:


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## morgantown (Nov 16, 2005)

Pace huh? Isn't that the manufacturer the Sky uses for its Sky+ boxes that are supposedly somewhat more reliable than those other even less reliable Sky+ boxes? No, NDS must not be involved at all...


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> BTW... If you don't like the Interface of the R15, H20, D10.... time to leave DirecTV... That particular interface is the basis for all their next generation products.
> 
> Like it or not.... the GUI on those units, is the GUI that is going to be on all new products for the forseable future.


I the interface isn't the problem it's the stability of the R15 and the stability of it's SL's. If it were stable the only complains people would have would be features that it does or doesn't have. An then it really would just be which to you like better.


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## newsposter (Nov 13, 2003)

Earl Bonovich said:


> BTW... If you don't like the Interface of the R15, H20, D10.... time to leave DirecTV...


Um, why can't i just keep using my hdtivos through 2010? (and even sub my deactivated T60)?

ok I admit it's an unfair statement as your post was pre-agreement announcement. :grin:

just wanted to say i'm thrilled we have 4 more years of guaranteed hdtivoing.

Only "mpeg4 only" feeds of sci fi and a few other networks would ever make me buy a new machine 

hope the easter bunny is good to you


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## squawk (Mar 5, 2006)

U are in the same situation as I.

Problem is that the HR20 has been continually delayed. First "estimated" release date was a year ago, then pushed back to August 2005, then October 2005, then 1Q 2006, then "mid-2006." When I asked a senior VP from DTV @ CES 2006, "why the continual delays?" he said DTV had "other priorities" to attend. My reaction was "BS." U don't give the market an "estimated" (as opposed to "official") release date, then continually delay, then delay, then delay.

My hunch is that NDS has had a real tough time getting the software to work. They've never really done a DVR before, & they have been careful not to infringe upon TiVo IP rights. This is one reason why we read about the extension of DTV's agreement with TiVo, which also addresses DTV's ability to use certain features in their DVRs that TiVo may have a claim to. The other piece of evidence is the news release we saw in Nov/Dec 2005, where DTV's CTO admitted all the problems they've been having, & complaints, with the R15 (whatever the model no is for the non-HD DirecTV "Plus" DVR, which was intro'd into the market last Sept).



dhodges said:


> I just upgraded to the MPEG-4 dish b/c I bought an HDTV. I am holding off on getting the HD Tivo machine in order to get the new one from DirecTV.
> 
> I asked DirecTV rep on the phone when the new HD DVR would be out and she said "later this month" (yeah, right).
> 
> ...


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## squawk (Mar 5, 2006)

I agree. There's nothing terrible with the H20's interface . . . other than there is so many bugs u just wonder what sorta quality control was put on it.

Most of what i've experienced that I don't llike w/the UI that I don't like can be easily remedied It's just a manifestation of poor engineering design, so u have to wonder, how long will it take for NDS engineers to put out a decent machine? A year, 2 years?

I've never owned a TiVo, but I've owned a Replay for over 6 years. I certainly realize that I have to "hand over" my DVR to whichever provider I choose, be it DTV, Dish or TW Cable. Days of independent DVRs will be limited, particularly if the sub wants all the functionality that the provider plans to offer.

Just as u state, right now its all about stability & the appearance of smart engineering. In the few months I've had the H20, I can say the machine is about neither. And the longer DTV drags its feet in providing a fix to some really stupid glitches, the more I will conclude that NDS really doe not have a good handle on how to design & control the manufacture of a DVR that of a quality most, if not all DTV subs are accustomed to.

H20
Sony A-55
Replay 2020 with 80GB hard drive



cabanaboy1977 said:


> I the interface isn't the problem it's the stability of the R15 and the stability of it's SL's. If it were stable the only complains people would have would be features that it does or doesn't have. An then it really would just be which to you like better.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

newsposter said:


> Um, why can't i just keep using my hdtivos through 2010? (and even sub my deactivated T60)?
> 
> ok I admit it's an unfair statement as your post was pre-agreement announcement. :grin:
> 
> ...


 What I was getting at with that statement, and the similar on TCF...
Basically the DTiVo series isn't going to change much. (With the exception of 6.x on the HR10-250).

They will still work fine.... it is more directed at those that want new features, new functions, ect....... that want it powered by TiVo.

I am hopping at least some "bunny" is good to me... doesn't necessarily have to be an "easter" one, could be Miss Janurary, Feb, march......


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Basically the DTiVo series isn't going to change much. (With the exception of 6.x on the HR10-250).


Does that mean they are going to do that?


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## newsposter (Nov 13, 2003)

Earl Bonovich said:


> What I was getting at with that statement, and the similar on TCF...
> Basically the DTiVo series isn't going to change much. (With the exception of 6.x on the HR10-250).
> 
> They will still work fine.... it is more directed at those that want new features, new functions, ect....... that want it powered by TiVo.
> ...


gosh what more could anyone want? I have so much to watch on my tivos i dont think i could even handle more "features" (and wouldn't know what i need anyway besides more space and hours to watch)

I realize i'm probably unique though. Maybe i dont know enough to miss anything  blissful ignorance

hoppy sunday to you.


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## MikeW (May 16, 2002)

I'd just like to stream music in the living room. XM is fine, but I'd like to use my own playlist.


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## MikeW (May 16, 2002)

Earl Bonovich said:


> What I was getting at with that statement, and the similar on TCF...
> Basically the DTiVo series isn't going to change much. (With the exception of 6.x on the HR10-250).
> 
> They will still work fine.... it is more directed at those that want new features, new functions, ect....... that want it powered by TiVo.
> ...


No Easter bunny for me...are we talkinjg about Miss May???


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## Reggie3 (Feb 20, 2006)

The new agreement D* has made with TiVo may make the software for the new HD TiVo and H-20 more intuitive and better. I suspect most of the bugs are due to software workarounds to not violate the TiVo patents.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Reggie3 said:


> The new agreement D* has made with TiVo may make the software for the new HD TiVo and H-20 more intuitive and better. I suspect most of the bugs are due to software workarounds to not violate the TiVo patents.


I suspect that the TiVo patents aren't a concern at all with respect to the user interface. The TiVo patents of concern are the low level recording and playback technology (what Echostar was sued for) and the technology related to recording content that you _might_ like.


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## AlbertZeroK (Jan 28, 2006)

gregftlaud said:


> if this new box is gonna cost 1500 bucks how in the world are they going to do the free swapout to those of us who already have the hd dvr when each market upgrades to mpeg4......like they promised. ?????


You mean turn in the $1000 tuner I own for one that doesn't even belong to me? And they'll probably nab you for an upgrade fee!

DirecWay has been doing that for some time. I had a DW4000, when the DW6000 came out, it was $350 with a 2 month service credit for recommiting to 2 more years of service. same way when the DW7000 came out.


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## eaadams (May 27, 2006)

Yea DirecWAY. I had to live with that. What a rip. Never again. 

So is this more or less the official HR20 thread. 

We know that it will do dual tuner DVR recording and will not have TIVO software. But that is about all we know at this pont right?


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## rfallan (May 27, 2006)

I'm very confused.

I have a new pioneer 50" plasma with adelphia cable and HD programming, NO DVR.

I'd like to get Directv with their HD DVR, but am hearing so many different views. Does anyone have an opinion and/or experience on which is the most pratical (not ease of use)? Would that be a Directv Hd DVR, a Tivo HD Dvr, or a cable DVR?

Thanks!!!!

RF


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## eaadams (May 27, 2006)

If I were you, with a cable connection, I'd wait for a Series 3 TIVO with 2 Cable Cards.


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## rfallan (May 27, 2006)

thanks. when is the anticipated arrival of a tivo 3...and will it work with directv? i'm really looking to switch to satellite tv, and want to get the whole setup right off the bat.

any thoughts?


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## eaadams (May 27, 2006)

Series 3 will not work with DirecTV.

DirecTV will require a HD DirecTIVO (unwise due to lack of future HD channels) OR you can wait for the HR20 which will record all HD you want on DirecTV. We are forced to wait on the HR20 as we dont want to do the manual antena thing and comcast wants $30,000 to run cable to our house. Blah!


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## grooves12 (Oct 27, 2005)

rfallan said:


> thanks. when is the anticipated arrival of a tivo 3...and will it work with directv? i'm really looking to switch to satellite tv, and want to get the whole setup right off the bat.
> 
> any thoughts?


Look into Dish Network with the 622 receiver... if you are not interested in NFL Sunday Ticket, they have everything you want.... and TODAY.


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## rfallan (May 27, 2006)

eaadams said:


> Series 3 will not work with DirecTV.
> 
> DirecTV will require a HD DirecTIVO (unwise due to lack of future HD channels) OR you can wait for the HR20 which will record all HD you want on DirecTV. We are forced to wait on the HR20 as we dont want to do the manual antena thing and comcast wants $30,000 to run cable to our house. Blah!


Thanks. I guess I'll just have to wait then for the HR 20.

You can probably find better ways to spend 30,000.


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## rfallan (May 27, 2006)

grooves12 said:


> Look into Dish Network with the 622 receiver... if you are not interested in NFL Sunday Ticket, they have everything you want.... and TODAY.


I don't know why, but I have this perception that Dish Network isn't as good as Directv. Is there really any difference?...or did I just ask a question that is equivalent to the abortion debate> Feelings run very strong on both sides.

Thanks.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Feelings are strong on both sides...

We can debate till we are blue in the face...
Each provider has their pros and cons....


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Each provider has their pros and cons....


If the question is who offers the most HD and/or an MPEG4 HD DVR, the answer is Dish Network. Fortunately for DirecTV, HD isn't everything.


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## carlsbad_bolt_fan (May 18, 2004)

harsh said:


> If the question is who offers the most HD and/or an MPEG4 HD DVR, the answer is Dish Network. Fortunately for DirecTV, HD isn't everything.


Exactly. If Dish Network offered NFL Sunday ticket , I'd be done with DirecTV. I'm tired of waiting for an MPEG4 DVR.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

carlsbad_bolt_fan said:


> Exactly. If Dish Network offered NFL Sunday ticket , I'd be done with DirecTV. I'm tired of waiting for an MPEG4 DVR.


Correct!!! DTV thinks it can do what it wants simply because it has NFLST. That's a bad business practice to stand by.


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## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

Or they could be waiting to make sure the HR20 is good before putting it on the market?


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## rfallan (May 27, 2006)

carlsbad_bolt_fan said:


> Exactly. If Dish Network offered NFL Sunday ticket , I'd be done with DirecTV. I'm tired of waiting for an MPEG4 DVR.


Thanks for the info...one last question.

If I don't want NFL Sunday Ticket, does Dish provide the newer/newest MPEG4 HD DVR unit now?

Thanks


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

rfallan said:


> Thanks for the info...one last question.
> 
> If I don't want NFL Sunday Ticket, does Dish provide the newer/newest MPEG4 HD DVR unit now?
> 
> Thanks


Dish currently has HD-DVRs that are compantible with their newest signals..


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## carlsbad_bolt_fan (May 18, 2004)

JLucPicard said:


> Or they could be waiting to make sure the HR20 is good before putting it on the market?


That may be. But once again, D* comes in 2nd in the HD DVR market. IIRC, E* had an HD DVR before D*. How could D* let this happen AGAIN? You think D* would have learned. Now E* will be MONTHS ahead in the HD DVR race.


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## eaadams (May 27, 2006)

Can we please not let this thread fall into the D* vs E* debate.


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## carlsbad_bolt_fan (May 18, 2004)

eaadams said:


> Can we please not let this thread fall into the D* vs E* debate.


I don't think it's headed that way. But there are those of us (who are D* subscribers) who are voicing our opinion regarding the way D* is rolling out their HD DVR.


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## rfallan (May 27, 2006)

Guys...I appreciate the responses....but let's stay calm. breathe deep.

All I want to know is if there is a great HD DVR on a progressive satellite tv company, and when approximately will the HR 20 come out?

thanks.


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## carlsbad_bolt_fan (May 18, 2004)

rfallan said:


> Guys...I appreciate the responses....but let's stay calm. breathe deep.
> 
> All I want to know is if there is a great HD DVR on a progressive satellite tv company, and when approximately will the HR 20 come out?
> 
> thanks.


IIRC, at their annual share holders meeting D* said summertime. Now that has slipped to September.


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Dish currently has HD-DVRs that are compantible with their newest signals..


Although a judge could force E* to shut them off if TiVo get its injunction. Not likely, but still a chance.

I say go with the HR10-250 now. It gets all D*'s current HD channels and D* will have to provide a low/no cost upgrade path once the HR20 comes out and has been debugged.

I have been recording HD material on my HR10-250 (Now mine are actually HR10-500's ) for over 2 years and the ability to time-shift HD can't be beat.


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## rfallan (May 27, 2006)

Herdfan said:


> Although a judge could force E* to shut them off if TiVo get its injunction. Not likely, but still a chance.
> 
> I say go with the HR10-250 now. It gets all D*'s current HD channels and D* will have to provide a low/no cost upgrade path once the HR20 comes out and has been debugged.
> 
> I have been recording HD material on my HR10-250 (Now mine are actually HR10-500's ) for over 2 years and the ability to time-shift HD can't be beat.


Thanks Herd...that seems like a logical choice for now. I was just hoping that the HR 20 would be close, so I'd only have to do it once.

thanks for all your comments.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Herdfan said:


> I say go with the HR10-250 now. It gets all D*'s current HD channels...


All except their HD locals; what's the point of offering HD LIL if you can't DVR them?


> ...and D* will have to provide a low/no cost upgrade path once the HR20 comes out and has been debugged.


Do you have insider information on the upgrade offers?


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

rfallan said:


> Thanks Herd...that seems like a logical choice for now. I was just hoping that the HR 20 would be close, so I'd only have to do it once.


The choice is only logical if Herdfan is correct about an inexpensive upgrade path. If he isn't, you'll wish you waited for the HR20.

Think of it this way: there really isn't much new on TV until September or October anyway.


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## eaadams (May 27, 2006)

Yea there is no guarantee that it will be a low no cost upgrade. 

Also you can time shift the HD locals but with use of an OTA antenna. 

And who said it is now pushed back to september? How do we know that?


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

harsh said:


> All except their HD locals; what's the point of offering HD LIL if you can't DVR them?


Harsh, That's the real question, isn't it?

My gut says the HR20 isn't out because it's got the same problems as the R15 and none of those problems have been solved. Not looking good for DTV.

One arm of DTV is putting up HD locals on schedule and the NDS (or whatever) arm can't get their DVRs (SD or HD) to work.


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## Scarpad (May 22, 2006)

D* should've never abandoned Tivo. I have the R15 coming Saturday and I'm sure it'll take some getting used to. It can't be worse than Comcast's HD DVR, it constantly scheduled repeats, has missed some programs, has sluggish input acceptance, and has a Phantom program that causes some problems with my Box. I moved to Comcasts box after having a Tivo and I really missed Tivos Software. It is the best in the Buisness and D* and other companies always think they can do better, they clearly have'nt


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## jonaswan2 (Oct 29, 2005)

Scarpad said:


> D* should've never abandoned Tivo. I have the R15 coming Saturday and I'm sure it'll take some getting used to. It can't be worse than Comcast's HD DVR, it constantly scheduled repeats, has missed some programs, has sluggish input acceptance, and has a Phantom program that causes some problems with my Box. I moved to Comcasts box after having a Tivo and I really missed Tivos Software. It is the best in the Buisness and D* and other companies always think they can do better, they clearly have'nt


They don't think they can develop better boxes, it's just cheaper for them to go that route. And in DirecTV's case, they were going to have to eventually anyways beacause of Murdoch.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

The "abandoment" of TiVo....

Yah know, it is a two way street (sure one of those sides is probalby a 5 lane highway, and the other a single lane).

If you look at the industry.... there is only ONE *ONE* provider that has TiVo software as the engine for THEIR DVR.... that would be Comcast. And that product is already in trouble before it is even released. (If it is not up to par with the TiVo Series 3 units, then people can opt for that route).

No other Cable Co, nor Sat provider... And the "combo" units have not really picked up (there are no "TVs" with built in TiVo, and the DVD Combo units are limited in number)

I am sure DirecTV set a price that they want to pay to continue with the TiVo platform, or they layed out what they wanted to the software to include for their buisness... TiVo came back with their counter.... but it never hooked up.

So DirecTV decided to use their resources to go at it on their own.
Just like most of the other providers out there... (go on their own, or contract someone to create them a custom version).

So..... take it for what it is worth when you think about the "poor" TiVo software.... it is always a two way street. (not necessarily a balanced road, but a road none the less)


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## eaadams (May 27, 2006)

The company making the HR20 is not a contractor, it is a Murdoch company, NDS. It reminds me of that movie "In Good Company" where the whole mega corp idea is synergy. Verry cliche

I can say that if HD TIVO were available for me for any platform w/o that OTA antena then I would jump on it. But Comcast wont run to my house so whatever. 

At my old house in Sacramento, CA we had access to SureWest and they carry TIVO but I'm not sure if it is in HD.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

eaadams said:


> The company making the HR20 is not a contractor, it is a Murdoch company, NDS. It reminds me of that movie "In Good Company" where the whole mega corp idea is synergy. Verry cliche
> 
> I can say that if HD TIVO were available for me for any platform w/o that OTA antena then I would jump on it. But Comcast wont run to my house so whatever.
> 
> At my old house in Sacramento, CA we had access to SureWest and they carry TIVO but I'm not sure if it is in HD.


I wasn't aware NDS had manufacturing facilities. Do you have a source for this info?


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## jonaswan2 (Oct 29, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> I wasn't aware NDS had manufacturing facilities. Do you have a source for this info?


They don't they have partners like RCA to do that. They just make the tech. Like XTV Homenet, the NDS equivelent to DirecTV's little home server.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

jonaswan2 said:


> They don't they have partners like RCA to do that. They just make the tech. Like XTV Homenet, the NDS equivelent to DirecTV's little home server.


Well Humax and Philips make the R15. Not DTV. Not NDS. If you know NDS is manufacturing the HR20, let us in on the details. If you're just guessing, then say you're just guessing.


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## jonaswan2 (Oct 29, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> Well Humax and Philips make the R15. Not DTV. Not NDS. If you know NDS is manufacturing the HR20, let us in on the details. If you're just guessing, then say you're just guessing.


I didn't literally mean "make the tech." I meant they create the technology many companies use. NDS doesn't make hardware.

Here is there list of people who actually make the STBs. They include favorites like Humax, RCA (Thomson), and LG.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Well eaadams made the statement:



eaadams said:


> The company making the HR20 is not a contractor, it is a Murdoch company, NDS.


That was what prompted my original reply. Sorry jonaswan2, I confused your reply with the reply I posted to eaadams.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> Well eaadams made the statement:
> 
> That was what prompted my original reply. Sorry jonaswan2, I confused your reply with the reply I posted to eaadams.


Aren't you one of the ones that keeps saying tht NDS made the R15? :lol: I think made is a relative term here


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## eaadams (May 27, 2006)

wow who cares about who manufactures it. Jeez sorry for saying make vs program. It is the software that is the problem with the thing.


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## thxultra (Feb 1, 2005)

I can wait. i would rather wait for a solid unit then have a buggy unit like e*. I would just like the see d* make a killer dvr that is solid and has plenty of space for hd content.


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## jonaswan2 (Oct 29, 2005)

thxultra said:


> I can wait. i would rather wait for a solid unit then have a buggy unit like e*. I would just like the see d* make a killer dvr that is solid and has plenty of space for hd content.


Tell NDS that. I'm sure DirecTV is closely monitoring them so they don't completely f*** up the Homenet server, I mean the HR20P.


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## eaadams (May 27, 2006)

Homenet?


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## Jgpercy (Jun 3, 2006)

FYI, if you log into the D* website and try to add an HD system using their site you can't. I talked to a CSR last week when I noticed it and they said it must be an error, but here it is a week later and you still can't. I may be naive, but I think they are prepping for the release of new equipment.


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## vtfan99 (Apr 12, 2006)

Jgpercy said:


> FYI, if you log into the D* website and try to add an HD system using their site you can't. I talked to a CSR last week when I noticed it and they said it must be an error, but here it is a week later and you still can't. I may be naive, but I think they are prepping for the release of new equipment.


I noticed that too. I emailed them and they said they were sorry and to contact them immediately to add any HD equipment. When I was on the phone with them about adding the HR10-250, they wanted me to know that they are releasing their new receiver at the end of the summer. :lol:

Not really sure what the deal is with their site...but I don't think they update it that often anyway so I don't put much stock in it. I certainly don't buy that they're releasing at the end of the summer either. I'll see it when I see it.


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## newsposter (Nov 13, 2003)

Jgpercy said:


> FYI, if you log into the D* website and try to add an HD system using their site you can't. I talked to a CSR last week when I noticed it and they said it must be an error, but here it is a week later and you still can't. I may be naive, but I think they are prepping for the release of new equipment.


adding receivers has been a CSR thing for a while now....can't online


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## mndwalsh (Nov 16, 2005)

I know a lot has been written about the new DVR from direct, when if does finally come out will it have an ota connection? Not sure if any has posted this or not but it would sure be nice if it does so I have a backup in heavy rain storms.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Has anyone heard who will be manufacturing the HR20?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

mndwalsh said:


> I know a lot has been written about the new DVR from direct, when if does finally come out will it have an ota connection? Not sure if any has posted this or not but it would sure be nice if it does so I have a backup in heavy rain storms.


It will have an OTA input.

As for a manufacturer.... Haven't heard.


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## eaadams (May 27, 2006)

Yea probably will have OTA input. But if I were an exec at DirecTV I would not include a OTA input so to force use of MPEG4. but if you want PBS in HD you'll need OTA. 

Guess Murdoch's great grand kids dont watch Sesame Street.


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## thxultra (Feb 1, 2005)

eaadams said:


> Yea probably will have OTA input. But if I were an exec at DirecTV I would not include a OTA input so to force use of MPEG4. but if you want PBS in HD you'll need OTA.
> 
> Guess Murdoch's great grand kids dont watch Sesame Street.


I bet it has at least a over the air digital tunner for all the markets with out mpeg 4 locals plus for channels currently not offered via sat like wgn in chicago for instance.


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## newsposter (Nov 13, 2003)

eaadams said:


> Yea probably will have OTA input. But if I were an exec at DirecTV I would not include a OTA input so to force use of MPEG4. but if you want PBS in HD you'll need OTA.


if, as you put it, you were an exec, do you mean you'd literally want to make a device that had NO chance of getting anything other than what 'you' decided? ie, no pbs,upn, cw, wb, pax etc.

wouldn't that hurt sales rather than help?

At full price, i never ever would have gotten a 2nd hdtivo. Only because I have OTA did i spend the 400 at newegg.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

You can almost bet money that there will be an OTA input on these units.

Just as thxultra said; there are several other networks out there that are not yet part of the LIL-HD yet.

Taking again, Chicago for example:

WGN-9 (WB for now) has HD content
WTTW-11 (PBS has a lot of HD content)
WCIU-26 now broadcasts home sporting events in HD
WPWR-50 (Was UPN) did broadcast programs in HD, not sure if they still have any others.

Plus the "sub-channels" Accross the digital OTA spectrum, I think we have nearly 20-25 "channels" in the Chicago and surrounding markets.


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## mndwalsh (Nov 16, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> You can almost bet money that there will be an OTA input on these units.
> 
> Just as thxultra said; there are several other networks out there that are not yet part of the LIL-HD yet.
> 
> ...


Thanks Earl

I thought they would have the OTA but wanted to be sure, the wife isn't happy with the old school antena we now have on the roof and I would hate to have no use for it because it is staying. HD is more important than what the roof of your house looks.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

mndwalsh said:


> Thanks Earl
> 
> I thought they would have the OTA but wanted to be sure, the wife isn't happy with the old school antena we now have on the roof and I would hate to have no use for it because it is staying. HD is more important than what the roof of your house looks.


Anyone who knows anything about current technology... will see that antenna on your roof and say...... ooh he must have an HDTV in there....

At least that is what I think when I drive around town.

All I can say... I am glad I have 3 attics...


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Anyone who knows anything about current technology... will see that antenna on your roof and say...... ooh he must have an HDTV in there....
> 
> At least that is what I think when I drive around town.
> 
> All I can say... I am glad I have 3 attics...


2 for antenna's and one for boxes? or is there a thrid market you pick up? IL, IN, and ?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Two for storage 
(one is a walk-in the backwall of my closet, about 600sqft, just a low "ceiling")
(one is above my garage and is pretty big too)

I have a third that is through a 3'x4' door in my wife's closet. Not very practical for storage, but big enough to fit a 12' wide antenna.... perfectly too, and pointed directly at the Sear's tower...

I am far enough East that I do pickup a few of the Indiana ones, and far enough south that I pick up (on occasion) some from further south.

What is nice, is I don't have to worry about the "look" or the weather effecting the antenna.


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## ej777 (Jun 6, 2006)

I have a quick question that I know you all can answer. Please forgive me if it's already been covered but I couldn't find it so here goes:

I live in the Chicago NW burbs and when I plugged in my zip code on the DirecTv website it says I can get HD locals. Is this true for the plain HD receiver as well as the HD DVR? 

Thanks for helping me.....


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## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

ej777,

Welcome to DBSTalk! A great place for information.

The only HD DVR available right now is the HR10-250 and that unit only handles MPEG2 signals - it cannot handle MPEG4.

DirecTv's High-Def locals are beamed using MPEG4. The only unit currently able to handle the HD locals is the H20, and that is a receiver only.

If you can get local digital signals with an antenna rather than the dish, the HR10-250 *does* handle the OTA HD locals. Most people interested in D*'s HD locals, though, are interested because they cannot receive their locals OTA (over-the-air).

Hope that helps!


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## ej777 (Jun 6, 2006)

That helps a lot thanks! 

I'm going to upgrade to HD and my thought was that if the DVR didn't accept MPEG-4 I'd go with the HD receiver that can until the long awaited and promised HR-20 comes out. I have a regular Tivo unit now so that'll keep me happy until the new DVR comes out. I just wish the HR-20 uses the Tivo brain but it seems as though that isn't gonna happen from what I've read here and elsewhere.

And you're right I can't get the OTA HD where I am. Even if I could what would be the point of getting the current HD DVR when the HR-20 supposedly will be out sometime this year. 

Again thanks a bunch for the help and the warm greeting to DBSTalk!


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

ej777 -

"Red Sox Nation" ? You are in the heart of Cubs land.... much closer to White Sox nation...

Anyway...

Which burb are you in? My father was in Palatine (just off of I-53 and Palatine)
And he was able to get all of the Chicago-Digital OTA channels with his 25yr old antenna.


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## mndwalsh (Nov 16, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> ej777 -
> 
> "Red Sox Nation" ? You are in the heart of Cubs land.... much closer to White Sox nation...
> 
> ...


I know you are a helpful person Earl, but to reply to a red sox fan????

that had to be hard


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Nah, not so much.... Now a Vikings Fan.... we may have an issue


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## zortapa (Nov 16, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Nah, not so much.... Now a Vikings Fan.... we may have an issue


I'll keep that little jab in mind next fall........ :sure:


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

zortapa said:


> I'll keep that little jab in mind next fall........ :sure:


Can we wait until January when Da-Bears or hoisting their back to back North Division Championship Flag ?


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## mndwalsh (Nov 16, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Nah, not so much.... Now a Vikings Fan.... we may have an issue


not a huge vikings fan but there are going in the right direction. I jumped on the raiders bandwagon back when they beat the vikes in the superbowl. I have to say that I have a foot off the wagon now. Just a fan of a good game. May try and get to Soldier Field this year, love the town love the cubs and love the Guinness at the pubs.


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## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Nah, not so much.... Now a Vikings Fan.... we may have an issue


Earl,

I used to have your back, dude. We'll see - I'll have to be more careful about that now!


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

JLucPicard said:


> Earl,
> 
> I used to have your back, dude. We'll see - I'll have to be more careful about that now!


Ah the Vikings.....Only reason for existence is to keep the local DA busy. :lol:

For a real football team look to the Lions. Tons-o-money, sold out stadium and absolutely no clue what to do with it. Ford, so old he was born before money existed. Millen.....well that says it all. Go Lions, good bye Joey.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Baseball is all good and that...

But we all know what the real "sport" is......


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## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Baseball is all good and that...
> 
> But we all know what the real "sport" is......


I do like the way you think!


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

All Hail King Earl: :bowdown: He speaketh with knowledge and wisdom!


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## Proc (Jan 19, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Can we wait until January when Da-Bears or hoisting their back to back North Division Championship Flag ?


The Bears need to find an offense to go with that defense.

-Darren, From the home of the team that's won one playoff game since 1957...


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

I agree...

Okay.. It is June so... enough football chatter... 

:backtotop


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## goodwrench420 (May 23, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I agree...
> 
> Okay.. It is June so... enough football chatter...
> 
> :backtotop


Just had to say go skins:lol:


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

goodwrench420 said:


> Just had to say go skins:lol:


June is when my football juices start flowing as I've got something to look forward to.

Go Lions.


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## Proc (Jan 19, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> June is when my football juices start flowing as I've got something to look forward to.
> 
> Go Lions.


Yes, go Lions!

As a long-suffering Lion's fan and season ticket holder, I have been honored to cheer on this mediocrity for many years. I consider it a badge of honor now. :lol:

This fall, our group at work is moving to a building right behind the Lions training facility. I believe my presence in the vicinity will propel them to greatness this year! Lions to the Super Bowl! hahahahahahhaha

Going for my meds now....


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## ej777 (Jun 6, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> ej777 -
> 
> "Red Sox Nation" ? You are in the heart of Cubs land.... much closer to White Sox nation...
> 
> ...


 Sorry about the delay in the response but I've been on vacation. Born and bred in N.H. so that is why Red Sox Nation. It exists no matter where you are! That's the beauty of it. 

I'm out in Algonquin so from what I've gathered over the net it seems I would need a monster antenna just to have a prayer of getting HD OTA.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Yah...

Algonquin is getting out there.....

You most certainly would have to have an outdoor antenna.


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## ej777 (Jun 6, 2006)

Earl or whomever......another question for you. It's an easy one.

How many coax lines come from the dish required for HD? Is it still just two?


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## dvrblogger (Jan 11, 2005)

for all of you debating the comparison with BSKYB . Pace is the hardware manufacturer for this box and DIRECTV is writing most of the software for this box not NDS. We'll see if it is better than the R15 but I wouldn't expect the same bugs. Also rumor has it DISH are not broadcasting MPEG4 only selling MPEG4 ready boxes while the actual tranmissions are still MPEG 2 HD.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

ej777 said:


> How many coax lines come from the dish required for HD? Is it still just two?


The dish that's required for HD locals (the AT-9) requires a stunning *FOUR* wires to the multiswitch in your house.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Jeremy W said:


> The dish that's required for HD locals (the AT-9) requires a stunning *FOUR* wires to the multiswitch in your house.


Why is that "stunning"... *FOUR* wires from the dish to the multiswitch has been the normal since they introduced the multi-satallite dish about 6 years ago.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Why is that "stunning"... *FOUR* wires from the dish to the multiswitch has been the normal since they introduced the multi-satallite dish about 6 years ago.


We probably need to keep in mind that those that live in any major metropolitan area and do not have HD can still receive all their programming on a dual LNB. I've had the triple LNB starting with locals then adding HD for quite a few years, but when I moved last September here in Phoenix they were trying to tell me I only needed a round dish. Had to beat into their head I also needed HD.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> We probably need to keep in mind that those that live in any major metropolitan area and do not have HD can still receive all their programming on a dual LNB. I've had the triple LNB starting with locals then adding HD for quite a few years, but when I moved last September here in Phoenix they were trying to tell me I only needed a round dish. Had to beat into their head I also needed HD.


I guess so... my apologizes


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## ej777 (Jun 6, 2006)

Thanks again all for answering my questions. As you can tell I'm way behind the power curve but am trying hard to get myself educated on this subject. 

Can you still get digital locals from the current HD DVR even though you can't get the HD locals?


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## ej777 (Jun 6, 2006)

Can you still get digital locals from the current HD DVR even though you can't get the HD locals?[/QUOTE]

I e-mail'ed DirecTv and they answered my question for me.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Why is that "stunning"... *FOUR* wires from the dish to the multiswitch has been the normal since they introduced the multi-satallite dish about 6 years ago.


I went straight from having a dual LNB dish with two wires for five years to the four wire five LNB monster AT9. It was quite a jump for me!


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Why is that "stunning"... *FOUR* wires from the dish to the multiswitch has been the normal since they introduced the multi-satallite dish about 6 years ago.


Stunning because you would think that they would contemplate putting the stacker on the dish?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Nah... I am just so used to 4 being the "semi-norm" now...

Some indications in the January PDF show that some technology is on the horizon that is going to cut down on the number of cables necessary...


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## Halo (Jan 13, 2006)

The stacker *IS* on the dish for the AT-9. 1500Mhz per wire compared to the previous dishes which were limited to 500Mhz. RG6 cable won't allow the full 6Ghz if all 4 were stacked at once, so I don't see how they will ever do the rumoured "1 wire solution".
I guess it would be possible to put the 4psk/8psk and FEC demodulation on the dish itself, then modulate into QAM to lower the bitrate so that all 6Ghz would fit on one wire. Problem is (1) it would be expensive (2) it wouldn't work with old receivers. 
Maybe we will see this kind of solution in the future.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Halo said:


> RG6 cable won't allow the full 6Ghz if all 4 were stacked at once, so I don't see how they will ever do the rumoured "1 wire solution".


For the Ku band, it is actually closer to 500Mhz per horn.


> (2) it wouldn't work with old receivers.


Dish Network has been set up for four satellites on one wire (which can be "separated" between two tuners) for some time now. It requires a capable switch and receiver. I believe that with this setup, there is still room for a diplexer.

Quality RG6 is supposedly good for upwards of 2GHz. Depending on the sophistication of the switch, you have to figure that you won't need access to more than two transponders at a time (assuming a dual tuner receiver). Maybe a series of block converters is what is needed. Any additional compression schemes are only going to damage the stream or lead to additional compression scheme overhead.

I don't have any illusions that DirecTV isn't chomping at the bit to replace all of the third party receivers out there. HDTV is just the opportunity that they needed.


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## Halo (Jan 13, 2006)

harsh said:


> For the Ku band, it is actually closer to 500Mhz per horn.


The KA slots are a lot bigger.

101 slot: 32 transponders at 24Mhz per is 768Mhz (given 2*500Mhz on the AT-9)

99.2 slot: 48 transponders at 36Mhz per is 1728Mhz (given 4*500Mhz on the AT-9)

102.8 slot: 48 transponders at 36Mhz per is 1728Mhz (given 4*500Mhz on the AT-9)

So, that's 4224Mhz (allocated to 5Ghz on the AT-9) not even including the remaining transponders at 110 and 119.



> Dish Network has been set up for four satellites on one wire


Not at the same time. It only stacks two requested transponder sets at once, one to 950-1450 and the other to 1650-2150. It's advantage is that it's an 'agile' stack, where any two transponder sets can be put on that wire at any time, meaning that one wire can always service two tuners. The AT-9 actually puts 3 transponder sets on one wire at a time (250-750 MHz, 950-1450 MHz, and 1650-2150 MHz), but the same group of 3 transponder sets are always on one wire which means that one wire can only supply one tuner. If D* had just made the AT-9 able to do an 'agile' stack like DishProPlus does then each wire would be able to service *three* tuners.



> Any additional compression schemes are only going to damage the stream or lead to additional compression scheme overhead.


Not really. The reason to use two different modulation schemes is because there are two very different channel characteristics. 
From sat to dish is a very low signal to noise ratio. 8PSK is about the most bandwidth efficient modulation in such a noisy channel (and even that requires more FEC). 
From dish to receiver is a far less noisy environment and an extremely bandwidth efficient modulation like 256QAM could be used. All sat transponders could easily fit onto one RG6 cable. The value of such a setup would be in the ease of installation. No more homeruns back to the dish/multiswitch would be needed. Just a simple splitter. Also, a product like HMC which has many tuners would only need one cable instead of several. Multiple dwelling units in particular would benefit.


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