# Mult-Room RED Minus - WHY?



## cmalberto (Jun 15, 2007)

I understand the concept of why my Multi-Room receiver shows a RED Minus sign - however I know for a fact that my other receiver and main DVR are NOT playing back anything. It is almost like it gets confused.

Worse yet, I have to restart the receiver to get it to sync back up correctly. This happens on both my H21 receivers. Sometimes at the same time, sometimes not. Is there anything I can do to prevent this? Or better yet - how to resolve without RESTARTING. This process takes a long time and for-ever on the DVR(HR20). 

Another interesting observation was that on my second H21, the list would never update(before restarting). I could watch shows but nothing new after a certain date when this event starting occuring. 

Seems buggy at best - and most annoying. Since it is happening to 2 receivers, I tend to think the unit is flawed but software.

Are others experiencing this? 

Thanks in advance

--Mickey


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Do you have DECA or a home brew network? If home brew, is it wired, wireless, powerline?


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

cmalberto said:


> I understand the concept of why my Multi-Room receiver shows a RED Minus sign - however I know for a fact that my other receiver and main DVR are NOT playing back anything. It is almost like it gets confused.
> 
> Worse yet, I have to restart the receiver to get it to sync back up correctly. This happens on both my H21 receivers. Sometimes at the same time, sometimes not. Is there anything I can do to prevent this? Or better yet - how to resolve without RESTARTING. This process takes a long time and for-ever on the DVR(HR20).
> 
> ...


 As Doug is alluding to, this sounds like a network/router problem.
I think I can safely say I haven't had this in at least six months and I'm using a DECA network.


----------



## cmalberto (Jun 15, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> Do you have DECA or a home brew network? If home brew, is it wired, wireless, powerline?


Oh - I guess that is a fair question. It is the DirecTv installed DECA I would guess knowing that it isn't home brewed. I didn't even think there was a solution that would allow me to self inflict this pain on myself.

--Mickey


----------



## cmalberto (Jun 15, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> As Doug is alluding to, this sounds like a network/router problem.
> I think I can safely say I haven't had this in at least six months and I'm using a DECA network.


I haven't lept up with all of the changes being made to Direct. I do know when they came out, the replaced 2(H21) of my 3 receivers. They installed a new dish(SWM?) and those DECA inline boxes(had the old HD box things). On my HR20, they only need one cable now so one is disconnected. There is no home network pieces in use - its all fed from DB6 cables coming back through the Sat I would guess. Like I said, just hadn't kept up to know about the new technology. I was thinking I would have run a new Network cable to provide multi room capabilities.

--Mickey


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

cmalberto said:


> I haven't lept up with all of the changes being made to Direct. I do know when they came out, the replaced 2(H21) of my 3 receivers. They installed a new dish(SWM?) and those DECA inline boxes(had the old HD box things). On my HR20, they only need one cable now so one is disconnected. There is no home network pieces in use - its all fed from DB6 cables coming back through the Sat I would guess. Like I said, just hadn't kept up to know about the new technology. I was thinking I would have run a new Network cable to provide multi room capabilities.
> 
> --Mickey


So DirecTV did do the _connected home networking _upgrade for the _whole home DVR _service. These are their new names for DECA & MRV.
You do have a SWiM dish, and they removed the old BBCs. Not sure why or if they replaced your H21s or if the 21s were the replacements.
DB6 is really RG6 coax.
It would help if you posted all the receivers you have and what they show under their network status.
You might as well run a system test on each [setup menu at the top] and post any errors it shows. After running the test, there is "more information" at the bottom. Select this and scroll down to the network information.
Post everything from the IP down to the type of network and whether it shows internet access.
If you can do this for all of your receivers, it will give us a base to try and figure out why you're having a problem.


----------



## dminches (Oct 1, 2006)

I thought the red minus shows up because another DVR/receiver is playing something from the machine's play list and you can only play one recording at a time from any remote machine.


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

That is one reason. It means more than anything that the local receiver can't confirm that the remote program is available, and isn't willing to try to play it.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

dminches said:


> I thought the red minus shows up because another DVR/receiver is playing something from the machine's play list and you can only play one recording at a time from any remote machine.


This is true, but the OP stated "however I know for a fact that my other receiver and main DVR are NOT playing back anything."

That is not supposed to be happening. They are clearly losing connectivity somehow either due to a bad cable, bad DECA, bad connector, incorrect or bad equipment or some other gremlin.


----------



## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

I saw this the other day on my HR20-700, shows on it had the red circle with the white line. All I had to do was go to that unit and view it's playlist. I then went back to the unit I wanted to watch from and everything was fine.


----------



## cmalberto (Jun 15, 2007)

"Doug Brott" said:


> This is true, but the OP stated "however I know for a fact that my other receiver and main DVR are NOT playing back anything."
> 
> That is not supposed to be happening. They are clearly losing connectivity somehow either due to a bad cable, bad DECA, bad connector, incorrect or bad equipment or some other gremlin.


True. Oddly enough the oldest piece of the puzzle is my DVR. It's an older HR21. It could be the root cause. I have not tried just rebooting it only and seeing if the H21s woke back up.

I am guessing that the DECA is creating it's own version of a home network not connected to the cloud or my home computer network.

It was mentioned that I run some system tests as this could also uncover issues. Hadn't even thought about that. It could provide some revealing information.

Thanks for all these thoughts and comments. I have to come up to speed on this.

--Mickey


----------



## cmalberto (Jun 15, 2007)

"RunnerFL" said:


> I saw this the other day on my HR20-700, shows on it had the red circle with the white line. All I had to do was go to that unit and view it's playlist. I then went back to the unit I wanted to watch from and everything was fine.


Hmmm...I will at list entertain this excercise.

--Mickey


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Did you run the system test?

Press & hold {INFO} then "Run System Test"


----------



## cmalberto (Jun 15, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> Did you run the system test?
> 
> Press & hold {INFO} then "Run System Test"


Running that now. Haven't been home to run this.

Thanks to the new iPad app DBSTalk to allowing me to monitor and easily reply to all messages and responses to my replies.

As you guys have suspected - I ran on my "office" receiver.

Diagnostic code 48-71-73-841
1. The Router-000B6BFA9B4F receiver has reduced network performance. If you have a problem viewing recordings from this receiver, please call customer service.....

2 and 3 make sense since I don't have an internet connection AND a phone line connected.

How bout that - bet that helps.

--Mickey


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

cmalberto said:


> Running that now. Haven't been home to run this.
> 
> Thanks to the new iPad app DBSTalk to allowing me to monitor and easily reply to all messages and responses to my replies.
> 
> ...


So what that is saying is the DECA cloud is below 215 Mb/s
Go to the front panel and press[both] the guide & > buttons to get into the coax network menu.
When you select coax network, it will first run a loss test between all DECA "nodes". Then there is a second test that will show a bit-rates matrix of all the nodes.
Please post the results from both pages so we can see what they are.


----------



## cmalberto (Jun 15, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> So what that is saying is the DECA cloud is below 215 Mb/s
> Go to the front panel and press[both] the guide & > buttons to get into the coax network menu.
> When you select coax network, it will first run a loss test between all DECA "nodes". Then there is a second test that will show a bit-rates matrix of all the nodes.
> Please post the results from both pages so we can see what they are.


Cool stuff...
Here are the screen shots that I took with my phone.
--Mick


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

So it looks like the "master" is the lowest and I'd look/check for any loose connectors on the coax. Are there any wallplate connectors here?
"Basically" check everything from the receiver to the splitter, and while you're at it do this to all drops.


----------



## cmalberto (Jun 15, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> So it looks like the "master" is the lowest and I'd look/check for any loose connectors on the coax. Are there any wallplate connectors here?
> "Basically" check everything from the receiver to the splitter, and while you're at it do this to all drops.


I do make my own connections which could meant that I have a bad one in the bunch. Would it tend to lend itself to the MASTER as I am having problems with both "other" receivers? I also have to cable runs for the MASTER receiver with one now not in use which is my understanding as they said 2 cables are no longer needed for dual tuners - so can I swap out to the second cable on both ends(obviously) to the splitter(I think it is the supplied 4 way up in the attic).

--Mickey


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Just so you know what these mean:
0 on the top and 0 on the side is the master sending out a signal and coming back to itself. This is the same with the 1 & 1, and the 2 & 2.
The 2 to 0 isn't good & the 1 to 2 isn't good.
So generally speaking, each of the 3 cables going to the splitter "needs help".
Is this splitter a Green Labeled splitter [the only type to use with DECA]?
As for the connectors, while they need to be done well/right, if they aren't tightened well enough to the mating connector, it can cause low numbers. This was why I said to check all the connectors mainly for any that are loose.
The next thing to look at or for is a bandstop filter as is there one on the input of the splitter?


----------



## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

cmalberto said:


> I do make my own connections which could meant that I have a bad one in the bunch. Would it tend to lend itself to the MASTER as I am having problems with both "other" receivers? I also have to cable runs for the MASTER receiver with one now not in use which is my understanding as they said 2 cables are no longer needed for dual tuners - so can I swap out to the second cable on both ends(obviously) to the splitter(I think it is the supplied 4 way up in the attic).
> 
> --Mickey


What kind of connectors are you using? I hope they're compression.


----------



## cmalberto (Jun 15, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> <edit -> removed image <>
> 
> Just so you know what these mean:
> 0 on the top and 0 on the side is the master sending out a signal and coming back to itself. This is the same with the 1 & 1, and the 2 & 2.
> ...


Well they are all Green label-Splitter in the attic, the Deca(attached to main receiver), and then the power box. I did check the connections(all redone by Direct) on the main receiver and boxes. I tightened as they weren't really that tight - some loose. I checked the attic connections - they were loose too. Interesting to see that of the 4 wires that used to come in from the Sat there is only one being used. This goes into the 1x4 splitter to the rest of the house. Doubled check the other receivers - they were fine.

Checking the unit again gives 218 236 218, 232 218 220, 218 225 217 which is higher than the previous check.

--Mickey


----------



## cmalberto (Jun 15, 2007)

TheRatPatrol said:


> What kind of connectors are you using? I hope they're compression.


Many were redone but not all of them - I suspect they checked them out.

--Mick


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

cmalberto said:


> Checking the unit again gives 218 236 218, 232 218 220, 218 225 217 which is higher than the previous check.
> 
> --Mickey


So those look like they will pass the system test, but not by much.
Do you have any wall plates with connectors? Someone had theirs replaced and it helped. Maybe this was only because the cable on the back side wasn't very tight.
After the cables/connectors, I look into mounting a Bandstop filter on the input of the splitter to stop the DECA from running all the way to the dish and back.
Another thing to look at is where is the SWiM PI located? Sometimes changing its location has helped.


----------



## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

I had the RED MINUS signs once in awhile while I had my Ethernet MRV, each time confirmed the DVR was busy, but one day after my DECA upgrade, I noticed on my newly installed H24 (the other four are HR24s which were on the Ethernet MRV before) all shows on two of my DVRs were crossed out. Checked other DVRs, not busy, no RED MINUS signs. I did not have time to fugure out why they happened on the H24 but they disappeared the next day.

I guess DECA MRV is more sensitive to loose connections.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Are all of the empty ports on your splitters terminated? The green label splitters should come with plenty of terminators so you should have them already, but they need to be on. No open ports.


----------



## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

"Doug Brott" said:


> Are all of the empty ports on your splitters terminated? The green label splitters should come with plenty of terminators so you should have them already, but they need to be on. No open ports.


Yes they all are. Have not seen the RED MINUS signs again. Hopefully just a one time deal.


----------



## cmalberto (Jun 15, 2007)

jacmyoung said:


> Yes they all are. Have not seen the RED MINUS signs again. Hopefully just a one time deal.


Its a 4 by and they all go somewhere.

--Mick


----------



## cmalberto (Jun 15, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> ...
> After the cables/connectors, I look into mounting a Bandstop filter on the input of the splitter to stop the DECA from running all the way to the dish and back.
> Another thing to look at is where is the SWiM PI located? Sometimes changing its location has helped.


Where to get a Bandstop Filter and what is a SWiM PI?

--Mickey


----------



## JGL (Aug 3, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> Go to the front panel and press[both] the guide & > buttons to get into the coax network menu.


When I tried this on my HR20-700, I couldn't get anything to come up (except the guide, when I happened to press that button first).
I held the buttons for about 20 seconds waiting for something to come up.
Is this menu not available on the HR20's?


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

cmalberto said:


> Where to get a Bandstop Filter and what is a SWiM PI?
> 
> --Mickey


Bandstop: http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.as...tm_source=google_base_02_Satellite_Components

The SWiM PI is the power inserter to power the SWiM. If you have a SWiM, then you have something like this plugged in for power:

http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.as...c=Multiswitch Power Supplies&sku=874409000844


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

JGL said:


> When I tried this on my HR20-700, I couldn't get anything to come up (except the guide, when I happened to press that button first).
> I held the buttons for about 20 seconds waiting for something to come up.
> Is this menu not available on the HR20's?


This test/menu is only on the 24s because they have the DECA internally.


----------



## cmalberto (Jun 15, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> Bandstop: http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.as...tm_source=google_base_02_Satellite_Components
> 
> The SWiM PI is the power inserter to power the SWiM. If you have a SWiM, then you have something like this plugged in for power:
> 
> http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.as...c=Multiswitch Power Supplies&sku=874409000844


Thanks - I should have known SolidSignal had these.

--Mickey


----------



## cmalberto (Jun 15, 2007)

After all of this - the office receiver appears to be stuck from yesterday(Friday) - it still says that the Master DVR is recording FLASHPOINT from last night. I even checked it is dated yesterday(7/30) - No for the interesting thing is that I RESORTED my LIST with the YELLOW options key to A-Z like I normally keep it(reset during the last restart) and now it is ok. Does this FORCE a resync with the server? 

--Mickey


----------



## cmalberto (Jun 15, 2007)

Also - I just noticed when I INFO'd the Office receiver(my new ones) - the info page says these are H24/100s - I could have sworn the installer told be these are H21s. Is the info screen correct and does that change anything for what I have already asked?

--Mickey


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

cmalberto said:


> After all of this - the office receiver appears to be stuck from yesterday(Friday) - it still says that the Master DVR is recording FLASHPOINT from last night. I even checked it is dated yesterday(7/30) - No for the interesting thing is that I RESORTED my LIST with the YELLOW options key to A-Z like I normally keep it(reset during the last restart) and now it is ok. Does this FORCE a resync with the server?
> 
> --Mickey


 If you mess with the options, yes it does seem to request an update.


----------

