# Super Crop Bug



## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

This bug is getting very tiresome for me and I am still shocked we have not seen a fix for this yet. This still exists in 0x15C. I am not the only one that is experiencing this, but I do seem to be the most vocal about it. I got frustrated enough watching Stargate Atlantis tonight to actually record a few seconds of it to demonstrate exactly what this bug is to everyone here that has not seen it for themselves. Hopefully by showing a more visual representation of this bug will lead to a speedier resolution by the programmers over at D*. I have really had it up to here with this bug...

Here is the link to the video I took showing the bug in action:






It is clearly visable when the bug shows up because the Sci-Fi logo disappears from the screen; in crop mode it should be at the very bottom. Notice how trickplay functions can affect the vertical stretching. Sometimes the trickplay functions fix the problem, but it can take many many many attempts to resolve it. Last week I got lucky and this bug did not appear at all for either Stargate SG-1 or Atlantis, but this week I was not so lucky.

I am begging D* to fix this ASAP and asking for others here to join my effort in attempting to get this bug squashed.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Is this via Component or HDMI connections?

As I have tried both... on SG1, SGA, and BSG... and can not get it to do it here...

I am wondering if part of it your TV's automatic adjustments kicking in...


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

This is with HDMI. If I recall correctly others experience it with component too. I have a Sony KDF50WE655. I'm 90% sure that this is a problem with the HR20 and has nothing to do with my TV though.

Edit: I'm usually using 480p resolution, but I have noticed this in all resolutions previously.


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## afulkerson (Jan 14, 2007)

My TV only shows the extra steaching in 1080 mode not in 480. I am using component input to the Tv. Until next tues when I get a new LCD...


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

Just a little more info on this. Sometimes the show or recording will vertically stretch as soon as I change the format, other times it is fine initially. When it starts out formatting correctly, usage of the trickplay functions is usually what causes the image to stretch vertically all of the sudden.


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## mtnagel (Sep 18, 2006)

It's definitely in my top 5 annoyances with the HR20. Although, honestly I haven't seen it in awhile. But I think that's only because I've been kind of busy lately, so when I get a chance, I watch HD stuff first because we are running low on space.

I couldn't get it to happen right now, but I just did a reset to download the new CE, so it usually goes away after a reset.


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## llowrey (May 8, 2007)

This happens to me almost 100% of the time. Thanks to this site I learned the trick of hitting play several times until the vertical stretch goes away. If I do anything at all, a 30s slip, hit pause, or even play again... it'll revert to being vertically stretched. This behavior renders crop mode totally useless.

I'm running v146 on my HR20-100 and am connected via HDMI.


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## gully_foyle (Jan 18, 2007)

llowrey said:


> This happens to me almost 100% of the time. Thanks to this site I learned the trick of hitting play several times until the vertical stretch goes away. If I do anything at all, a 30s slip, hit pause, or even play again... it'll revert to being vertically stretched. This behavior renders crop mode totally useless.
> 
> I'm running v146 on my HR20-100 and am connected via HDMI.


There should be an option for "Do Not Process Format" to let the TV do it. Just send along according to the 16x9 or 4x3 setting, so that all signals are edge to edge on the set in the "wide" setting, and 4x3 in the "narrow" setting. Utterly NO vertical scaling should be done when the set is marked "16x9".


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

llowrey said:


> This happens to me almost 100% of the time. Thanks to this site I learned the trick of hitting play several times until the vertical stretch goes away. If I do anything at all, a 30s slip, hit pause, or even play again... it'll revert to being vertically stretched. This behavior renders crop mode totally useless.


This has been my experience as well. Causing the progress bar to display on the screen by pressing play can at times resolve the issue, but not always. The way that trickplay can fix/cause this issue at times is why I'm leaning towards it being a problem more with the HR20 and not with my TV.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

PoitNarf said:


> I'm leaning towards it being a problem more with the HR20 and not with my TV.


It's definitely an HR20 problem.


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## llowrey (May 8, 2007)

My vertical stretch problem has gone away... for now.

Last night, my HR20 stopped responding to most remote keys. The only ones that would work were menu, guide, and exit. None of the others worked. Even the arrow buttons on the face of the unit didn't work. So, I did an RBR.

I have not see the vertical stretch problem since I did the RBR. I'm sure it'll be back... but at least I now have a "solution".


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## The_Geyser (Nov 21, 2005)

The pain with this issue for me is that it was working, but stopped on one of the SW releases. I forget which one. So I don't think it is a TV issue.


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

The_Geyser said:


> The pain with this issue for me is that it was working, but stopped on one of the SW releases. I forget which one. So I don't think it is a TV issue.


This bug has been present in all the software releases for at least 5 months, it's just that sometimes it doesn't want to show itself.


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## The_Geyser (Nov 21, 2005)

PoitNarf said:


> This bug has been present in all the software releases for at least 5 months, it's just that sometimes it doesn't want to show itself.


I got my HR20 in Feb. I did not go through half of the issues some of you have!


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## sharpmibo (Mar 1, 2006)

Have this problem at times also. Connection is hdmi. It occasionally occurs, switches on its own.


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## mdb (May 15, 2007)

I've had an HR20-700 on a 32 Sony since last December. It's been pretty stable after the last couple of software upgrades. No vertical stretching -ever. This one is HDMI connected.

Two weeks ago I replaced a non-dvr receiver on a 42 Panasonic plasma with an HR20-100s. It is not HDMI connected. After about a week the vertical stretching and over cropping began. Unplugging would help for a while, but it would start again. I played with all the settings, native on/off etc and finally called customer service. I was sent another box - an HR20-700. After a few days the vertical stretching began again, and I also was getting the 'please wait' (for ever) while changing channels (never had that on the Sony). I unplugged and it's been stable for few days. 

I still haven' t returned the HR20-100s. Does the receiver really matter in this case? I don't know if the 700 that was sent is refurbished - it was in a mailing box, not a new box.

This is a horrible problem. I don't understand why it happens on one tv and not the other.


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

mdb said:


> Does the receiver really matter in this case?


Nope, it shouldn't. This is definitely a software issue present in both HR20 models.


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

sorry, almost forgot to post.. on mine I don't see just vertical stretch it is more lke the whole picture is too big, I still can see 1/2 of the logo and it's closer to the edge than it should be..


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## islesfan (Oct 18, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Is this via Component or HDMI connections?
> 
> As I have tried both... on SG1, SGA, and BSG... and can not get it to do it here...
> 
> I am wondering if part of it your TV's automatic adjustments kicking in...


I used to get this one with every other update, but I haven't seen it in months. I know when it happened, it was via HDMI to DVI and it was not the TV compensating (as my TV does not do that).


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## islesfan (Oct 18, 2006)

houskamp said:


> sorry, almost forgot to post.. on mine I don't see just vertical stretch it is more lke the whole picture is too big, I still can see 1/2 of the logo and it's closer to the edge than it should be..


In my case, the entire picture is shifted to the left. It is annoying, but not worth going back to component, as I get a much better picture with the HDMI to DVI.


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## jes (Apr 21, 2007)

Another thread, http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=947110&postcount=17 had a discussion similar to this...

Using 480p stretch and setting my monitor's aspect mode as mentioned in the thread above seems more accurate. HD programming isn't affected by stretch...


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## mtnagel (Sep 18, 2006)

I saw it today after I hadn't seen it for awhile. My folks are in town and are thinking about going HD. Definitely not a great advertisement. Through in the only-occasional CID and the box doesn't look so great compared to the trusty SD Directivo they have.


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## LI-SVT (May 18, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Is this via Component or HDMI connections?
> 
> As I have tried both... on SG1, SGA, and BSG... and can not get it to do it here...
> 
> I am wondering if part of it your TV's automatic adjustments kicking in...


On my box it effects all outputs. Keep in mind this over crop happens with the TV setting as 16:9 and 4:3. In my system I have the S-Video going to a modulator to watch TV in the bed room. When I watch programming in the bedroom from the HR20 I set the TV type to 4:3 and use the crop mode. I have seen the over crop more often this way than over crop in the 16:9 mode. Either way it happens and is very annoying.


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## LI-SVT (May 18, 2006)

jes said:


> Another thread, http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=947110&postcount=17 had a discussion similar to this...
> 
> Using 480p stretch and setting my monitor's aspect mode as mentioned in the thread above seems more accurate. HD programming isn't affected by stretch...


It is if the TV setting is 4:3. When the TV setting is 4:3 strech and crop apply to HD channels and the SD cahnnels are left alone.


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## SBHD (Apr 22, 2007)

Another data point:

1) Crop is stretched on SD channel
2) switch to a HD (1080i) channel
3) switch back to SD channel - Crop is OK
4) bring up progress bar by hitting play - crop will go back to stretch
5) play with pause, rewind will randomly toggle stretch/normal crop - if I play with it, I can get the proper (non-stretched) crop to "stick"

soft-reset has fixed it when it gets stuck in "stretch" mode, but it takes SOOOOO long to complete - it's a last resort, especially if I don't want to miss the show I was trying to watch cropped.

(btw: channel was FLIX, 547 - LB showing of Roller Boogie, 11PM PDT)


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## johnd'oh (May 1, 2007)

I've had my HR20-100 (0x15c) for a few months now and never saw this bug. But then I wanted to save some of my recordings to DVD so I connected the RCA out to my DVD recorder. After I hooked up that connection, I started seeing the vertical stretching bug. After I recorded my shows and disconnected the cables from that output, I don't see the problem anymore.

Currently, I have HDMI to the TV and S-video and digital audio to my receiver. With that configuration, my unit seems to be working. 

Hope that helps track down whatever is going on.


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## mdb (May 15, 2007)

johnd'oh;959469 said:


> I've had my HR20-100 (0x15c) for a few months now and never saw this bug. But then I wanted to save some of my recordings to DVD so I connected the RCA out to my DVD recorder. After I hooked up that connection, I started seeing the vertical stretching bug. After I recorded my shows and disconnected the cables from that output, I don't see the problem anymore.
> 
> Currently, I have HDMI to the TV and S-video and digital audio to my receiver. With that configuration, my unit seems to be working.
> 
> Hope that helps track down whatever is going on.


I have a wireless antenna connected to the RCA sending the signal to another tv in the kitchen. I'll disconnect it to see if this solves the problem. If it does, I would hate to lose the kitchen signal, but the vertical stretching is so annoying. Thanks for the suggestion.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

I've experienced this as well on HDMI to two different Sony sets. It was SD programming on Disney and Discovery.


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## mtnagel (Sep 18, 2006)

Hmmmm... I don't have RCA video out, but I do have RCA audio to my reciever. I can't see how that would matter since it's not the video, but maybe you're on to something.


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## britrock (May 27, 2007)

I've noticed something very interesting about this problem lately. I recorded a show on the discovery channel last night (I can't remember what it was sadly) and it was displayed in the same way that sci-fi shows are (ie 16:9 content with a black bar on top and bottom and broadcast in 4:3).

On the show on the discovery channel I could not get the bug to occur. I then played friday's episode of SG1 again, and the problem came back instantly.

I am wondering if the HR20 does some sort of autodetection to try and crop the right amount, but is getting confused by something that sci-fi does. 

sci-fi does have a lot of extra stuff in the black bars. Perhaps that extra crap is confusing it? Or perhaps there is something else that is different about that channel?

Has anyone seen the problem on any channel other than sci-fi?


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## MattWarner (Feb 11, 2007)

britrock said:


> I am wondering if the HR20 does some sort of autodetection to try and crop the right amount, but is getting confused by something that sci-fi does.
> 
> sci-fi does have a lot of extra stuff in the black bars. Perhaps that extra crap is confusing it? Or perhaps there is something else that is different about that channel?
> 
> Has anyone seen the problem on any channel other than sci-fi?


I see the bug on other channels as well, Bravo, for example. I think you're right on the autodetect idea. It could be the bugs in the righthand corner confuse it or the banners they pop up promoting other shows. I do wish DirecTV would turn off the autodetect and make a set crop to handle 16x9 shows shown in SD. That would solve 98% of our problems.

-Matt


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

I don't think it's "channel" related.
Letterbox programing [from SD channels] is where I use the "zoom" mode. Discovery, History, etc. It happens to me most of the time when I've watching one of there new programs in 16:9 format [though an SD channel]. I select "zoom" and while using trick play to get through the commercial, when I get back to the program, I have the vertical "over zoom".
So far powering down the receiver is the only way to "fix" it.


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## Greenbay4 (Oct 10, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> I don't think it's "channel" related.
> Letterbox programing [from SD channels] is where I use the "zoom" mode.


I get on many different SD channels also.


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## mtnagel (Sep 18, 2006)

It's in the current CE too. I just saw it on the Science channel. Hadn't seen it since the download on Friday. I'm really getting sick of this issue.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

mtnagel said:


> It's in the current CE too. I just saw it on the Science channel. Hadn't seen it since the download on Friday. I'm really getting sick of this issue.


Me Two!


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## mtnagel (Sep 18, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> Me Two!


I'd have to say it's my biggest issue with the HR20 right now.


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## davring (Jan 13, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> I don't think it's "channel" related.
> Letterbox programing [from SD channels] is where I use the "zoom" mode. Discovery, History, etc. It happens to me most of the time when I've watching one of there new programs in 16:9 format [though an SD channel]. I select "zoom" and while using trick play to get through the commercial, when I get back to the program, I have the vertical "over zoom".
> So far powering down the receiver is the only way to "fix" it.


VOS when I have this issue, alot of SD, any channel, I set the HR20 to stretch and zoom with the Sony. Works great, stops the "over zoom".


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

davring said:


> VOS when I have this issue, alot of SD, any channel, I set the HR20 to stretch and zoom with the Sony. Works great, stops the "over zoom".


Thanks, I played with that this morning, but at some point "I thought" it was still too much zoom. I'll check into it when it happens again. I ended up resetting the recorder and fixed it.


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## skaeight (Jan 15, 2004)

I agree that it is trying to autocorrect. I was watching the Riches today which is SD 16x9 and at first it stretched too much, but then once the show started again I tried cropping it again and it worked. Then when going through the commercials it stretched again.

I didn't have this issue until the last national sw release. Hopefully they can get this fixed soon. I'd be happy if they just crop the same amount no matter what. Get that working first, then if they can figure out this autocrop at some point.

It sucks having to use the zoom on my tv when the stretch bug appears. I like using only one remote.


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## MrKlaatu (Mar 8, 2007)

I have it too. The truth is, we
re all mostly talking about the SciFi channel. DirecTV should get them to go hidef. Or at least simulcast their first run stuff on UHD. The amount of SD-only stuff that still airs is lame. Especially since you can play HD content fine on an SD TV.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

MrKlaatu said:


> mostly talking about the SciFi channel. DirecTV should get them to go hidef.


Sci-Fi HD is launching in the fall.


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

Why am I not surprised that I am reviving this thread again? This bug still exists in both the latest national and CE releases. Is it really only a small handful of us on the forums noticing this behavior? Is this bug low on the list of things to be fixed by the development team? The fact that this bug has existed in this system for well over 5 months now just completely boggles my mind...

Guys, I'm begging you all...

*REPLY TO THIS THREAD IF YOU WANT THIS FIXED ASAP*

It doesn't matter if you have not seen this bug firsthand yourself, please help those of us out that deal with it on a fairly regular basis. The more noise we make, the quicker this will get fixed one and for all. If you don't know what I'm talking about head to the first post in this thread for a description and video demo.

I will buy each HR20 development team member a case of beer if they fix this within the next 2 weeks. Is that enough motivation??


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## davring (Jan 13, 2007)

It is very annoying, sorry to say I have gotten a little used to it as I work around it with TV controls. This drives the wife nuts becuase she doesn't want to bother with making all the changes. It DOES need to get fixed, sometimes it is really worse than others, might change during a showing even.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Please fix this. I am experiencing this now quite frequently and have posted about it in the current CE Issues thread.


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

hate to say it but haven't seen it.. so just for reference, setup in sig..


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## Cyrus (Oct 22, 2006)

I was seeing this all the time with the 168 release but it went away with 174 CE. I haven't tried it with 178 CE since I was mainly using it on stargate shows on Sci-Fi which are now over.


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

Glad to see I'm still not crazy. Keep the posts coming guys please... I will not let this thread die until this has been resolved.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

You need to come up with a dumb acronym for the problem that you have to spell out every time you post it.


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## aramus8 (Nov 21, 2006)

Two or three national releases ago D* did something with their HDMI configuration. Until then I could use my Hitachi to format the screen to 4X3 stretch and 4X3 pillar box using the HDMI input on 480I. Since they "improved" HDMI, I no longer have those options with 480I, but they still exist with 720P and 1080I and on component with 480I. When this change was made is when the crop bug showed up on the HR20's own crop format. Using crop mode now with 480I and with the HDMI input creates really tall skinny giants and unless you are into horror or are on the right drugs its totally unwatchable and would probable give small children nightmares. Whatever they did to HDMI a few months ago needs to be undone.


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## SBHD (Apr 22, 2007)

The crop-stretch bug definitely is still in the 0x168 release. It actually seems to "stick" in the stretched mode more readily than 0x15C, meaning I can't coax it back to normal by fiddling with the pause/play, etc.


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## davring (Jan 13, 2007)

SBHD said:


> The crop-stretch bug definitely is still in the 0x168 release. It actually seems to "stick" in the stretched mode more readily than 0x15C, meaning I can't coax it back to normal by fiddling with the pause/play, etc.


I does seem to be more persistant with this last release. I have had this box Since Nov and it did not do this untill the second software update, around the holidays, and has been with me since. Now it is the worst it has ever been. Can't get it back to norma and if you do manage to, it only stays that way for a few moments. None of the operating funtions of my TV have changed with 0168.


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

SBHD said:


> The crop-stretch bug definitely is still in the 0x168 release. It actually seems to "stick" in the stretched mode more readily than 0x15C, meaning I can't coax it back to normal by fiddling with the pause/play, etc.


Yes, for some reason in past releases it used to be possible to use the trickplay functions to force it back to normal, but now it seems almost impossible to get it back to the way it should be. Any programs that I watch in Crop I now watch on my H20 instead...


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## mdb (May 15, 2007)

This bug is definitely alive and well in the current release, and I've previously posted several times about it. I dislike the distortion in the stretch mode, so I don't use that, but I really like the crop mode for LB shows. This bug renders that impossible. And yes, it seems to be worse in this release.
This is also my number one issue, and would certainly like to see it resolved.


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## man_rob (Feb 21, 2007)

I first noticed it after the last update. Very annoying.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

For everyone with this issue, it might help to post about your home setup, the sort of TV you use etc.


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

lamontcranston said:


> For everyone with this issue, it might help to post about your home setup, the sort of TV you use etc.


Good call. I have reported my setup regarding this issue previously, but once more couldn't hurt.

HR20-700 direct HDMI connection to Sony KDF50WE655

I have seen others post that they see this issue with the component output as well.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Not only can you get it through component, I can view my DVR through my DVD Recorder, and I can get it that way (S-Video). 

I can also see the issue when the TV is completely off when using the slingbox which is connected via plain vanilla composite.


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

lamontcranston said:


> I can also see the issue when the TV is completely off when using the slingbox which is connected via plain vanilla composite.


I have also experienced it when using my slingbox which is connected to the HR20 via component.


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## MattWarner (Feb 11, 2007)

I also am still having the problem even in the latest CE release. My setup details are below:


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

Had the bug hit today on channel 735 watching the Yankees and Twins. By switching from crop to pillar the problem went away.

Going back to "crop" caused the problem again.


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

Keep the reports coming in guys. Hopefully we'll catch D*s attention at some point.


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## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

It seems to me there are two separate issues here. First, the strange crop with tall people you get on the composite/s-video outputs when the box is set for a 16:9 HD television is the way it is for everyone. Although the HR20 has all the video outputs active at once, it does not have the ability to have the main HD output set for a 16:9 Tv and the secondary outputs set for a 4:3 TV so you get this strange distortion on the secondary outputs. Happens on the R20 receiver as well, for the same reason. The only way to change this would be for the Hr20 to have different settings for each output (it's somewhere on the HR20 "wish list" I think).

The other problem being reported, as has been posted by others, I cannot create whatever I do with the HR20 and my Toshiba using component. One interesting thing is that by far the greatest number of posts have come from Sony owners, in fact it looks like about 95%. This IMHO is too great a percentage to be a coincidence. I am not saying that it isn't an HR20 bug but it looks like something is happening that the Sony TVs do not like. And I know there have been reports of this with other TVs as well but just look at the posts, Sony after Sony after Sony....


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

texasbrit said:


> And I know there have been reports of this with other TVs as well but just look at the posts, Sony after Sony after Sony....


Perhaps there is some issue with Sony TVs, but for it to happen with my Slingbox Pro connected via component when my Sony TV is off? I'm not convinced that it's TV related at this point.


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## SBHD (Apr 22, 2007)

texasbrit said:


> It seems to me there are two separate issues here. First, the strange crop with tall people you get on the composite/s-video outputs when the box is set for a 16:9 HD television is the way it is for everyone. Although the HR20 has all the video outputs active at once, it does not have the ability to have the main HD output set for a 16:9 Tv and the secondary outputs set for a 4:3 TV so you get this strange distortion on the secondary outputs. Happens on the R20 receiver as well, for the same reason. The only way to change this would be for the Hr20 to have different settings for each output (it's somewhere on the HR20 "wish list" I think).
> 
> The other problem being reported, as has been posted by others, I cannot create whatever I do with the HR20 and my Toshiba using component. One interesting thing is that by far the greatest number of posts have come from Sony owners, in fact it looks like about 95%. This IMHO is too great a percentage to be a coincidence. I am not saying that it isn't an HR20 bug but it looks like something is happening that the Sony TVs do not like. And I know there have been reports of this with other TVs as well but just look at the posts, Sony after Sony after Sony....


It's on HDMI. It's intermittent. It's on 16:9 output on HDMI. If it starts out properly cropped, chances are good it will go "crop-stretched" the first time anything from the HR20 is displayed. Just bringing up the play controller or info bar can trigger it. Sometimes, it can be coaxed into reverting to normal crop by switching back to a HD channel, then back. Usually it's a flip of a coin. All of this has been posted numerous times and many have specifically stated it's on HDMI output, and doesn't matter what type (1080i, 720p, etc.).


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## davring (Jan 13, 2007)

SBHD said:


> It's on HDMI. It's intermittent. It's on 16:9 output on HDMI.


+1


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## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

SBHD said:


> It's on HDMI. It's intermittent. It's on 16:9 output on HDMI. If it starts out properly cropped, chances are good it will go "crop-stretched" the first time anything from the HR20 is displayed. Just bringing up the play controller or info bar can trigger it. Sometimes, it can be coaxed into reverting to normal crop by switching back to a HD channel, then back. Usually it's a flip of a coin. All of this has been posted numerous times and many have specifically stated it's on HDMI output, and doesn't matter what type (1080i, 720p, etc.).


Some people have reported it on component as well (see for example PoitNarf's post a couple of posts ago), which is what I find difficult to understand since on component you would expect the same problem with every TV. For it to be an HDMI-only problem makes more sense because of the handshake between the TV and the HR20.


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## SBHD (Apr 22, 2007)

I get 16:9 on the S-Video output. I have the crop-stretch bug happening right now on FMC LB show (Romancing The Stone). The output on S-Video, viewed through DVD Recorder (which inputs/outputs wide-screen) looks identical to what being displayed over HDMI.

edit: I was able to "reset" it to normal crop mode by switching to a HD channel, then back.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

texasbrit said:


> It seems to me there are two separate issues here. First, the strange crop with tall people you get on the composite/s-video outputs when the box is set for a 16:9 HD television is the way it is for everyone. Although the HR20 has all the video outputs active at once, it does not have the ability to have the main HD output set for a 16:9 Tv and the secondary outputs set for a 4:3 TV so you get this strange distortion on the secondary outputs. Happens on the R20 receiver as well, for the same reason. The only way to change this would be for the Hr20 to have different settings for each output (it's somewhere on the HR20 "wish list" I think).
> 
> The other problem being reported, as has been posted by others, I cannot create whatever I do with the HR20 and my Toshiba using component. One interesting thing is that by far the greatest number of posts have come from Sony owners, in fact it looks like about 95%. This IMHO is too great a percentage to be a coincidence. I am not saying that it isn't an HR20 bug but it looks like something is happening that the Sony TVs do not like. And I know there have been reports of this with other TVs as well but just look at the posts, Sony after Sony after Sony....


Connected mine up to my Vizio 47" LCD yesterday...problem continued. I think you see a lot of Sonys in here because they make some very good sets and the people that spend a lot of money on TV want nice sets.


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## mdb (May 15, 2007)

texasbrit said:


> One interesting thing is that by far the greatest number of posts have come from Sony owners, in fact it looks like about 95%. This IMHO is too great a percentage to be a coincidence. I am not saying that it isn't an HR20 bug but it looks like something is happening that the Sony TVs do not like. And I know there have been reports of this with other TVs as well but just look at the posts, Sony after Sony after Sony....


This has NEVER happened on my Sony (HDMI), but occurs regularly on my Panasonic (component). I've tried all the different format set up combinations, but nothing worsk. It happens on all SD channels, and pushing trick play buttons or changing channels sometimes gets the format back and sometimes doesn't. There is no pattern. When using the FF or RW you can see the format distorting and going back to normal. If you're lucky, and push the stop/play button at the right time, you land on a non-distorted image.

Also, it took about a week for it to show up after we got the HR20 for the Panasonic, it was not instantaneous.

I do think there is some sort of disconnect in communication between the box and the tv, but it's not just a Sony issue.


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

Think we caught anyone's attention yet? Keep posting guys, let's try to make this thread 10+ pages long with reports of this bug!


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## davring (Jan 13, 2007)

I see it only on SD, recorded or slip and sometimes live. Trick play may stop it but lately only temporarily. I think it even stretches more than in the past. I have not tried component, my set has been HDMI since day one. I am glad to see that it is not just Sony. But it does need to be fixed, it is useless as it is. When it is right it is such a better choice (IMHO) then stretch(horizontal) as it is more proportionally correct.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

davring said:


> I see it only on SD, recorded or slip and sometimes live. Trick play may stop it but lately only temporarily. I think it even stretches more than in the past. I have not tried component, my set has been HDMI since day one. I am glad to see that it is not just Sony. But it does need to be fixed, it is useless as it is. When it is right it is such a better choice (IMHO) then stretch(horizontal) as it is more proportionally correct.


To give an idea of how much the stretch is. In watching a Yankees game I couldn't see the line score at the top of the screen and only the very, very top of the YES logo at the bottom. Going to Pillar or Stretched brought the picture back on screen.

None of the TV's "Wide" settings had any effect.

The PQ while the picture was stretched was also horrid.


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## man_rob (Feb 21, 2007)

It happens on my Samsung via the HDMI connection.


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## Mojo_Ryzen (Jun 7, 2007)

My HR20 also has E.V.S. I anxiously await the cure.


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## davring (Jan 13, 2007)

Ken S said:


> To give an idea of how much the stretch is. In watching a Yankees game I couldn't see the line score at the top of the screen and only the very, very top of the YES logo at the bottom. Going to Pillar or Stretched brought the picture back on screen.
> 
> None of the TV's "Wide" settings had any effect.
> 
> The PQ while the picture was stretched was also horrid.


The best temporary fix is; set HR20 to stretch and use the zoom on your TV, works quite well except the HR20's status bar is partially hidden. Not a great work around, but the only one I know of.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Philips TVs have an automatic mode where it just gets rid of the black. Works pretty decent, but I'd still rather have the HR20 work right.


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

davring said:


> The best temporary fix is; set HR20 to stretch and use the zoom on your TV, works quite well except the HR20's status bar is partially hidden. Not a great work around, but the only one I know of.


The way I have my TV setup with the HR20 it doesn't work correctly to change the aspect ratio on the TV itself. Either the HR20 gets fixed or I'm forced to watch on my H20 on a much smaller TV...


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## mdb (May 15, 2007)

davring said:


> The best temporary fix is; set HR20 to stretch and use the zoom on your TV, works quite well except the HR20's status bar is partially hidden. Not a great work around, but the only one I know of.


This does work well for the picture. But, not only does it effect the status bar, but it on my Panasonic, the guide, menus, ect. blow up and pushes a lot of the info off the screen which renders it almost useless. A work around that creates its own set of problems.:


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

mdb said:


> A work around that creates its own set of problems.:


Exactly, we shouldn't have to use any sort of work around. It should just work on the HR20.


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## kramerboy (Mar 10, 2006)

Yes, this issue really needs fixed. I notice it when watching any letterboxed SD program. The work around really doesn't help since the progress bar is then moved down and pretty much off the screen.

Thing is.... I really didn't notice this until after I got the 0x168 release. I've only had my HR20 for a month, so maybe I just didn't notice it on the prior national release.


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## skaeight (Jan 15, 2004)

Earl, is there any talk about getting this fixed? Anything to address this in the latest CE? This is really my only issue with the HR20 right now.


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

skaeight said:


> This is really my only issue with the HR20 right now.


Same here... and I will not let this thread die until we see a fix for this bug. Guys, please keep chiming in on this, I beg of you.


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## MrKlaatu (Mar 8, 2007)

PoitNarf said:


> Same here... and I will not let this thread die until we see a fix for this bug. Guys, please keep chiming in on this, I beg of you.


Of course the best fix: more HD channels so we don't have to watch window boxed shows at all.


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

MrKlaatu said:


> Of course the best fix: more HD channels so we don't have to watch window boxed shows at all.


Perhaps, but we're at least, _AT LEAST_, 15 years off from the dying off of SD. While I would be happy with every single channel in HD, I think it's a far easier task for D* to fix *a bug that has been lingering in every single software build for at least the past 6 months...*


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## burnt_soul (Sep 15, 2006)

I have two HR20's:

HR20-700 hooked up to a 4:3 RCA MM55100 via component cable; no RCA cables connected; no crop problem.

HR20-100 hooked up to a 16:9 Sony KF60WE610 via component cable, through a Pioneer VSX-917 receiver; with RCA cables connected to a DVD recorder; crop problem is very bad.

I don't use the HDMI cable.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

burnt_soul said:


> I have two HR20's:
> 
> HR20-700 hooked up to a 4:3 RCA MM55100 via component cable; no RCA cables connected; no crop problem.


What do you get with an SD program shown in 16:9 on a 4:3 TV, when using crop ?


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

No one else wants to chime in about this?

(translation: shameless bump to top of forum :lol: )


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## mtnagel (Sep 18, 2006)

I wasn't able to download last weekends CE (too much partying), but I saw it last night with 178.


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## JayB (Mar 19, 2007)

I saw this behavior over the weekend for the first time. A reset of the HR20 caused the problem to go away and it's not returned. The setup is:

HR20 running 168
Vizio GV47L 47" LCD
HDMI
Native On


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## LI-SVT (May 18, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> What do you get with an SD program shown in 16:9 on a 4:3 TV, when using crop ?


If the HR20 aspect is set to 4:3 SD shows are not affected by the format button. All SD shows look normal. The format button affects the HD shows. The choices are:

>Crop, cuts off the left and right edges of the picture and formats the aspect correctly for 4:3 viewing.

>Stretch, everything is tall and skinny.

>Letter box, black bars top and bottom formatted for 4:3 viewing.

When using crop and 4:3 aspect the over crop bug exists. The picture becomes stretched too far left to right.

I have this bug and it is annoying. The work around of using the TVs zoom is not acceptable to me. I could use pillar box but I have a 16:9 CRT so I am afraid of burn in and image retention. If D* would fix the panel color bug then pillar bar mode would be ok.


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## burnt_soul (Sep 15, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> What do you get with an SD program shown in 16:9 on a 4:3 TV, when using crop ?


It works a little differently. On a 4:3 TV, the Crop mode doesn't do anything if the source is SD. It only works when the source is 16:9 HD. Then it cuts off the left and right of the screen, and removes the letterboxing.

When an SD program is shown in 4:3, but then upconverted to 16:9 with pillar boxes (on a digital/HD channel), it shows up on a 4:3 TV with both letter and pillar boxes. Crop mode eliminates the black space all the way around in that case.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

burnt_soul said:


> It works a little differently. On a 4:3 TV, the Crop mode doesn't do anything if the source is SD. It only works when the source is 16:9 HD. Then it cuts off the left and right of the screen, and removes the letterboxing.
> 
> When an SD program is shown in 4:3, but then upconverted to 16:9 with pillar boxes (on a digital/HD channel), it shows up on a 4:3 TV with both letter and pillar boxes. Crop mode eliminates the black space all the way around in that case.


Thanks, as that seems to make sense. 
With an SD channel showing a 16:9 image [on a 16:9 TV], crop works to fill the screen & on an HD channel showing a 4:3 image [on a 4:3 TV] crop works to do the same thing.


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

It appears from some of the postings in the issues thread about 0x17E that the super crop bug still exists. Either we haven't made a big enough stink about it or they have not found the root cause yet. I'm beggin ya guys, keep those reports of this bug coming in both the issues thread and this one!


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## d max82 (May 23, 2007)

I'll chime in for ya PoitNarf. 

This bug is VERY annoying. I've had to run a composite line to my TV along with my HDMI cable to work around this bug. I have to switch inputs on the TV to composite when watching letterboxed SD so that I can let the TV do the cropping since my HR20 can't do it correctly. Major downside is letting the TV do the cropping removes the progress bar whereas if the HR20 does it I can still see it. 


PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE fix it!!!


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

I initially thought my problem was the HR20 randomly changing modes, but now that I have read this thread, I realize that this is my problem, too.

It took me a long time to notice because my wife always stretches the pic. She never thinks to change modes--only I do that, and this weekend I saw the stretching.

I am on the NR.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

So far, no sightings from me with 0x17e but let's keep this alive! If you're seeing the super crop bug, please report it here!

EDIT: Seen it now...


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## mtnagel (Sep 18, 2006)

I have it with 17e. Watching Eureka recorded on SciFi (from a different CE I believe; this is the 1st episode of this season).


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## davring (Jan 13, 2007)

I still have it, but it seems to correct a little easier with trick play. Lately trick play didn't help, this update is a little better. They must be doing something to it.


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## mtnagel (Sep 18, 2006)

And it doesn't seem to stretch quite as much (or maybe it's just my imagination).


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

On some versions I've had only a little stretch, and some I've had massive stretch. I don't know if it's really the software, it's just a random occurrence after restart.


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## mtnagel (Sep 18, 2006)

mtnagel said:


> I have it with 17e. Watching Eureka recorded on SciFi (from a different CE I believe; this is the 1st episode of this season).


Okay, I just saw it on the latest Eureka that was recorded under 17e.


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

I think this bug holds the record for being the longest existing known issue with the HR20 that is yet to be fixed. And if not, it is absolutely in the top 3...

Records are meant to be broken D*... Stop letting the super crop bug continue it's reign of terror on us lowly users! :nono2:


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I'm in total agreement with Mr. Narf --- Please, I know there are people from DIRECTV who read these threads, please let me know what I can do to help extinguish this bug.


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## d max82 (May 23, 2007)

Watching mythbusters last night and saw it under 17e. I noticed that repeatedly pressing "play" button would set the crop up right. Sometimes I had to press play 3 or 4 times quickly, and other times I'd hit it 15 to 20 times. 

When I did get the crop setup right, pressing any button would put it back to "Super crop"


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Mythbusters, Battlestar Galactica... these are the ones I've seen the bug on most of all.


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

lamontcranston said:


> Mythbusters, Battlestar Galactica... these are the ones I've seen the bug on most of all.


And both Stargates...


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Yeah, it's more common on SD letterboxed programming than on SD full-frame programming. It's not just because we use it for letterbox, there have been times I didn't get the bug with full frame and did with letterbox.


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## SBHD (Apr 22, 2007)

lamontcranston said:


> Yeah, it's more common on SD letterboxed programming than on SD full-frame programming. It's not just because we use it for letterbox, there have been times I didn't get the bug with full frame and did with letterbox.


I had the feeling it tended towards the full-frame. But, shouldn't matter what whether it's full-frame SD or letterbox SD. The crop feature simply zooms in enough to remove the pillars and maintain 16:9 aspect ratio. It shouldn't be looking at letterbox "bars".

Several times now, I haven't been able to "fiddle" the proper crop out of the DTV box and resorted to my TV's zoom. Waste of time and frustrating, to say the least.


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## CPanther95 (Apr 2, 2007)

Just started having this problem with the newest release. With the influx of letterboxed original series' on the cablenets, this is a major problem.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

CPanther95 said:


> With the influx of letterboxed original series' on the cablenets, this is a major problem.


Hopefully it won't be for long, with more and more channels announcing their move to HD.


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## mtnagel (Sep 18, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> Hopefully it won't be for long, with more and more channels announcing their move to HD.


I would hope that it would be fixed by then, but since it's been around for so long, I won't hold my breath.

Just out of curiosity, I wanted to see when I first reported it and I found my thread from Dec 1st. So that's almost 8 months!!!

And just by searching for "crop", it appears that the first reported instance was on in this thread for Sept 30. So that's almost 10 months!!!


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## CPanther95 (Apr 2, 2007)

Once SciFi, FX and USA go HD, the severity of the problem will diminish in my house. Only remaining letterboxed original I can think of (that we watch)would be Mad Men on AMC.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I am back to where I'm able to see the super crop bug close to 100% of the time. I know that I've said this before, but if there's anything I can do, please please contact me via PM. 

I think that this is one of the last real big bugs of there for HR20.


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## MrKlaatu (Mar 8, 2007)

CPanther95 said:


> Once SciFi, FX and USA go HD, the severity of the problem will diminish in my house. Only remaining letterboxed original I can think of (that we watch)would be Mad Men on AMC.


And for some reason Flight of the Conchords is in SD windowbox on HBO-HD.


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## 69hokie (Sep 23, 2006)

I am now seeing the crop bug for the first time on the most recent national release. HR20-700, HDMI. Noticed when I selected guide with Harmony 880 the preview picture in upper right corner was not cropped. When I exited guide, the main picture came back uncropped. I normally have HR20 set in crop mode. It seemed that everytime I went to guide, it changed cropping until it finally stayed in letterbox until I changed channels. This does need to be fixed.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

69hokie, that's a different instance of the bug than I've been having. My problem is when I push the FORMAT button, the image gets way too tall. Check out PoitNarf's youtube video.


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## 69hokie (Sep 23, 2006)

lamontcranston said:


> 69hokie, that's a different instance of the bug than I've been having. My problem is when I push the FORMAT button, the image gets way too tall. Check out PoitNarf's youtube video.


I had seen the video and saw that what I experienced seemed different, but thought I would throw it out anyway as further information about apparent cropping bug/bugs. Maybe it is a different bug, or shows up differently dependent on setup or format selection. The thing I saw as really different was the trigger seemed to be with selection of guide command. Mine did not stretch as others have indicated, but seemed to switch between crop and letterbox or pillar.


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

mtnagel said:


> I would hope that it would be fixed by then, but since it's been around for so long, I won't hold my breath.
> 
> Just out of curiosity, I wanted to see when I first reported it and I found my thread from Dec 1st. So that's almost 8 months!!!
> 
> And just by searching for "crop", it appears that the first reported instance was on in this thread for Sept 30. So that's almost 10 months!!!


Yes, I wouldn't be surprised if this bug has existed in every single HR20 build. I really hope D* is trying to fix this...


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## 69hokie (Sep 23, 2006)

Now mine has progressed to me seeing the vertical stretch typical of this thread. Not consistant though. I wonder if it is tuner specific, because I am not seeing it on my other HR20-700 at all.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I wonder if they are having trouble duplicating the issue in El Segundo.


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## SonicGT (Aug 31, 2006)

I consistantly get this bug on mine with hdmi and samsung dlp at 720p. Mostly with the shows or channels already mentioned like stargate, eureka, dr who (mainly sci-fi channel shows)

I just can't wait til these channels go hidef, because then no reason to crop


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

Keep those reports coming in guys!


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## gabe23 (Mar 7, 2007)

Still seeing it here, albeit not as bad as with the last SW version. Mainly with Discovery Channel and TLC programming, but these are really the only SD LB programs that I watch. At least now I'm able to hit the Play button a few times to get the picture back to normal.


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## bakers12 (May 29, 2007)

SonicGT said:


> I consistantly get this bug on mine with hdmi and samsung dlp at 720p. Mostly with the shows or channels already mentioned like stargate, eureka, dr who (mainly sci-fi channel shows)
> 
> I just can't wait til these channels go hidef, because then no reason to crop


I have a Samsung DLP also. I run the HR-20 only at 720p with native off via HDMI. The bug is so common I usually only try the crop format after a national release to see if it's fixed, although I think it's better than it was.

By the way, I get this on OTA as well.


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## MichaelP (Dec 5, 2006)

I finally saw this bug crop up just once after I got the latest release. I've never seen it before and after a reboot of the HR20 I haven't seen it since.


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## mfr13 (Feb 4, 2007)

Had the bug last night with a letterboxed show on SCFi and FX.


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## laddie (Sep 5, 2007)

I think this is the problem I have with my H20-600s... it sucks!!

It's happening with a bunch of my FSNs and EI channels - but not with other SD channels like NBA tv and NFL Network...


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## gabe23 (Mar 7, 2007)

Count me in also. Still happening mainly with Discovery and TLC programming...


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

Is it Supercrop bug's birthday yet?  :nono2:


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

laddie said:


> I think this is the problem I have with my H20-600s... it sucks!!
> 
> It's happening with a bunch of my FSNs and EI channels - but not with other SD channels like NBA tv and NFL Network...


I know it happens with my H20-100 when I go into the setup menu or reboot the system [where it's displaying 480].
Even after leaving the setup menu, if the tuned channel is SD I need to channel up and back to correct the display. This is without "crop" but in pillar bar setting too.
This H20-100 has been like this straight out of the box [with 0202 installed].
The only way to see the install guide [completely] is through component instead of HDMI.
All previous H20s worked fine through HDMI on my Sony.


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## mtnagel (Sep 18, 2006)

PoitNarf said:


> Is it Supercrop bug's birthday yet?  :nono2:


I get Sept 30 unless you're searching skills are better than mine.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

PoitNarf said:


> I am begging D* to fix this ASAP and asking for others here to join my effort in attempting to get this bug squashed.


It's exactly the same on my TV. Excellent demo video. 

I have this problem on both Component & HDMI.

It been so bad that now it's just habit to change the format on the TV instead of the HR20. So much so that I hadn't realized it was still a problem after the relase of x18a. That is until PoitNarf brought it up.

I've tested it every way I can. My TV only has 2 automatic formats. The rest are fixed. It's definitly the HR20.

Mike


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

If you're using Cutting Edge software, I ask if you'll take the poll here:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=97371


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## Bathel (Aug 18, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Is this via Component or HDMI connections?
> 
> As I have tried both... on SG1, SGA, and BSG... and can not get it to do it here...
> 
> I am wondering if part of it your TV's automatic adjustments kicking in...


I don't know if this has been said in the prior 6 pages, but here goes:

I too get this bug... however, I have been using S-video of the HR20 as I've been having some cable issues on the component side of my TV. I ran a Svideo cable to the reciever off the HR20 and disconnected the component feed from the HR20. Yesterday, I got the exact same bug..... How is that possible?

The picture was fine and then I went to the menu to check some settings and on return to the full screen the crop issue was there. I pressed the off button and then turned the HR20 back on... same crop issue... pressed off again and turned back on and screen was back to normal.

This has happened twice since hooking up the Svideo and disconnecting the component. I'm running the latest 0194 on a HR20-700.


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## thekochs (Oct 7, 2006)

Have you guys seen this for a fix ? Re-centering. Not sure how bullet proof but wanted to let this Forum know.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=97351


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I have had Super Crop through my slingbox connected via composite. It doesn't matter how you output. 

The fix that you talk about seems to be with the H20 only, where the bug isn't seen as often.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

thekochs said:


> Have you guys seen this for a fix ? Re-centering. Not sure how bullet proof but wanted to let this Forum know.
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=97351


I've seen that posting and am fairly sure that isn't "fixing" the problem. Since "centering" isn't going to change the size of the image, just change what part you are seeing or not.
This centering should be done with a test pattern like the one on HDnet to be able to make any adjustment meaningful.
If my H20 vertical stretch is the same, then it's not a centering issue. If it was then the image wouldn't have a vertical distortion that it does. Also with mine it's more prevalent over HDMI than component.


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## johnr9e (Nov 27, 2006)

<delurk>
I don't complain much here because everyone else is so good at it, but the super crop has gotten much worse under 0x18a on my -100 to the point of making it difficult to watch History Channel, Sci-Fi Channel, Dicovery Channel, NG Channel, etc. Actually, in 018a it tends to stretch instead of cropping in "crop" mode.

DTV, please finally fix this. Also, to DTV developers, if you are doing some kind of letterbox auto-detect - STOP! - PLEASE just zoom and crop a 16:9 picture within a 4:3 picture when the crop is selected. If you want to add an auto-detect crop mode option, be my guest, but please just fix the regular crop option and you can debug any new automatic crop option at your leisure.
</delurk>


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## mtnagel (Sep 18, 2006)

johnr9e said:


> <delurk>
> I don't complain much here because everyone else is so good at it, but the super crop has gotten much worse under 0x18a on my -100 to the point of making it difficult to watch History Channel, Sci-Fi Channel, Dicovery Channel, NG Channel, etc. Actually, in 018a it tends to stretch instead of cropping in "crop" mode.
> 
> DTV, please finally fix this. Also, to DTV developers, if you are doing some kind of letterbox auto-detect - STOP! - PLEASE just zoom and crop a 16:9 picture within a 4:3 picture when the crop is selected. If you want to add an auto-detect crop mode option, be my guest, but please just fix the regular crop option and you can debug any new automatic crop option at your leisure.
> </delurk>


Can someone explain why they would be doing some sort of "auto detect" (if in fact that is what they are trying to do)? That makes no sense to me.


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## pluker25 (Sep 7, 2007)

Hi I just got x2024 and found this thread. Super Crop. What I noticed is if you select the wrong display type for your tv in the HR20-600 in the display menu (16x9 vs 4x3) the "bug" seems to go away. Is it possible that they simply switched the logic of the menu choices by mistake? Has anyone tried this or am I the only one? I haven't completley scoured this thread to find out.


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## pluker25 (Sep 7, 2007)

Excuse me I meant "tv type" and not "display" in the menu.


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## pluker25 (Sep 7, 2007)

Also I meant H20-600 not HR20-600. I guess a was a bit excited that it fixed the problem for me. It would have ruined my weekend if I had to live with that super crop cr*p.


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## pluker25 (Sep 7, 2007)

Also I didn't mean to imply I have a 4x3 tv. I have a 16x9. What I did specifically is change the "tv type" in the R20-600 menu to 4x3. This is the wrong setting obviously. But after I did that the super crop problem went away. The full screen video now looks like it did before I got x2024 on all the channels I cared to look at. I have my tv format set at "16x9 standard" as I have had it all along. I also use typically stretch (native) for the H20 display format. I used 1080 HD programming to verify that the problem went away (HD locals and Premium HD channels).


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## pluker25 (Sep 7, 2007)

I looked at this setting I used a little more (ie setting to the wrong tv type). there is more to it than simply the tv types being reversed even though the result looks correct if the R20 display format is Stretch/ Native. The remaining issue is that pillar box is not available, since that is not technically correct for 4x3. So with the tv type set to 4x3 you have letterbox as a choice instead. Letterbox will render an incorrect display with a 16x9 tv, including with this bug. So from what I can see if I just forget about the missing option for the pillar box choice and stick with stretch/native I have the correct 16x9 display by choosing the wrong tv type (4x3 instead of 16x9) as long as this bug stays the way it is.


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## pluker25 (Sep 7, 2007)

Sorry for all these consecutive posts, but this has been a discovery process for me. If this has been noted before I apologize. I can now add one more thing. Interestingly after switching the H20-600 back to "tv type" 16x9 from 4x3 the problem seems to have corrected itself. It's as if something in the aspect ratio and scaling logic has been reset. Strange this would be required even after a reboot. Even stranger that this it what appears to have corrected it. All I can say is now there is no more super crop where there had been in 16x9. I better not think about this much more or I will start losing my mind. All I can say is I'm sure the problem went away.


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## mtnagel (Sep 18, 2006)

Geez pluker, trying to up your post count or something  I'm just kidding.

Anyway, hopefully you're on to something. Obviously it will require more testing, but I think the more info we can give D*, the better the chance they have a squishing this bug.


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## pluker25 (Sep 7, 2007)

mtnagel said:


> Geez pluker, trying to up your post count or something  I'm just kidding.
> 
> Anyway, hopefully you're on to something. Obviously it will require more testing, but I think the more info we can give D*, the better the chance they have a squishing this bug.


I got the upgrade on Sept 4 but I didn't use the H20 for a few days. Well it would have driven me nuts. That much "overscanning" really reduced the realized resolution. Might as well not even be "HD" but I won't go there. And it can't be corrected by the TV controls because it's an invalid condition. The first channel I was on after the upgrade was an XM channel. The screen saver pong-like symbol was going pretty far beyond the edge of the display and I said "what is this?". Then I noticed even _that_ symbol looked blocky. To say nothing of 1080 video. If nothing else this would get me on this board. I can't think of a worse problem for an "HD" receiver. Difficult menu navigation? Baah. But now I will go back in my hole. Everything is normal again. I don't want to be a guinee pig.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

pluker25 said:


> Sorry for all these consecutive posts, but this has been a discovery process for me. If this has been noted before I apologize. I can now add one more thing. Interestingly after switching the H20-600 back to "tv type" 16x9 from 4x3 the problem seems to have corrected itself. It's as if something in the aspect ratio and scaling logic has been reset. Strange this would be required even after a reboot. Even stranger that this it what appears to have corrected it. All I can say is now there is no more super crop where there had been in 16x9. I better not think about this much more or I will start losing my mind. All I can say is I'm sure the problem went away.


:welcome_s to DBSTalk.
All seven posts right here. :lol: 
BTW: there is a thread for the H20 here: http://www.dbstalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=78
While swapping the TV type changes the issue, it also changes other things to. One of the things is with 4:3 set, the format only works on HD channels, where with the 16:9 it only works on the SD channels.


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## pluker25 (Sep 7, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> :welcome_s to DBSTalk.
> All seven posts right here. :lol:
> BTW: there is a thread for the H20 here: http://www.dbstalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=78
> While swapping the TV type changes the issue, it also changes other things to. One of the things is with 4:3 set, the format only works on HD channels, where with the 16:9 it only works on the SD channels.


 thanks for the info. Well changing the tv type and then changing it back actually not only "changed" the, for me anyway, it eradicated the original problem (super crop). I'll have to check out the nuances of the format button sometime. I never really have much use for 4:3 unless I'm recording to DVD (sd) via analog hookup. Then it's a necessity.


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## barryhammond (Sep 13, 2007)

This is my biggest complaint against my directv non-tivo dvr. It drives me bonkers to watch a show in the wrong aspect ratio. My wife doesn't even notice and that makes me even more crazy. 

My hd channels went dead tonight, so I reset my box, then called directv. While I was on the phone, I tried to explain this to them. I just spent 45 minutes on the phone with of course no results whatsoever. I could get a tech to come out and swap units of course, but for them to sumbit a bug report or something like that would be impossible.


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## mtnagel (Sep 18, 2006)

barryhammond said:


> This is my biggest complaint against my directv non-tivo dvr. It drives me bonkers to watch a show in the wrong aspect ratio. My wife doesn't even notice and that makes me even more crazy.
> 
> My hd channels went dead tonight, so I reset my box, then called directv. While I was on the phone, I tried to explain this to them. I just spent 45 minutes on the phone with of course no results whatsoever. I could get a tech to come out and swap units of course, but for them to sumbit a bug report or something like that would be impossible.


Welcome. Your best bet is to report the issues here. They are reading.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

For those who are counting, I now have two HR20-700s. Last night marked the new one's first occurrence of the Super Crop bug. 

I was hoping that the reason some people get it and some don't is because it was a hardware issue that was fixed in a later rev. of the scaling chip. My new HR20 has a much later manufacture date (it even shipped with 0x15c as its build version) and well, I'm still supercroppin' away.


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## Burt (Jul 14, 2005)

Stuart Sweet said:


> For those who are counting, I now have two HR20-700s. Last night marked the new one's first occurrence of the Super Crop bug.
> 
> I was hoping that the reason some people get it and some don't is because it was a hardware issue that was fixed in a later rev. of the scaling chip. My new HR20 has a much later manufacture date (it even shipped with 0x15c as its build version) and well, I'm still supercroppin' away.


The supercrop bug seems to be getting worse on my system. I used to be able to get rid of it by doing an RBR. This would work for a few days. Now, I reappears after about five minutes.

Fortunately, I can use the workaround suggested by VOS, but this shouldn't be happening. This is intolerable.

Burt


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## Kentstater (Jun 18, 2004)

First time I saw this was last night.

The only time I ever switch from 1080i stretch is watching Rescue Me on FX.
So the 197 version might be the culprit for me since I did not see this in weeks past.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I'm just still hoping it can be resolved in software. So far they've tackled every bug that we all thought was hardware-related, but still nothing on this one.


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## Burt (Jul 14, 2005)

Does anyone have any definitive information on whether the supercrop bug is produced by hardware or software?

I have now gone through three HR20-700s. Supercrop has appeared on all three. It's driving me nuts.

I have about a month left for free hardware swaps. I can keep swapping units until D* sends me a good one. But if it is a hardware problem, all I can expect is more of the same. If it is software, I can sit back and keep praying for a fix.

Burt


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

There was a lot of "buzz" in the HR20's early days that all the problems were in hardware and there was no way to fix them. 

That turned out to be untrue. One by one, the bugs were squashed. This one's one of the very few that remain. 

Is it hardware? I don't know, maybe. But more likely it's software, and it hasn't been high on the list to fix. Let's change that, keep bringing it up!


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## mtnagel (Sep 18, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> There was a lot of "buzz" in the HR20's early days that all the problems were in hardware and there was no way to fix them.
> 
> That turned out to be untrue. One by one, the bugs were squashed. This one's one of the very few that remain.
> 
> Is it hardware? I don't know, maybe. But more likely it's software, and it hasn't been high on the list to fix. Let's change that, keep bringing it up!


It's been there since basically the beginning. How could it not be high on their list? I mean, even though I'm a big fan of caller ID on the HR20, even I can see that the super crop bug affects how you watch tv (the main purpose of the machine). How could they possibly put CID as a higher priority that supercrop?

I know you don't know the answers, but I just can't fathom how they could put many of the things they work on higher than supercrop.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

mtnagel said:


> I know you don't know the answers, but I just can't fathom how they could put many of the things they work on higher than supercrop.


I have said exactly the same thing. They know about PoitNarf's video and I've sent them one of my own. I don't know what's taking so long but... something clearly is.

Maybe the feeling is that this is temporary, most LB programming will be on HD channels in the future? Just a guess.


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## Burt (Jul 14, 2005)

Stuart Sweet said:


> I have said exactly the same thing. They know about PoitNarf's video and I've sent them one of my own. I don't know what's taking so long but... something clearly is.
> 
> Maybe the feeling is that this is temporary, most LB programming will be on HD channels in the future? Just a guess.


I just got off the phone with D*. The CSR said they were escalating my complaint to the "Command Center." He gave me a special number and said I should call back in four days.

I don't have high hopes that this will resolve anything, but maybe a deluge of phone calls to tech support would shake things loose. It's worth a try.

Burt


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## mtnagel (Sep 18, 2006)

It's happened the fastest ever after a download/reset - I saw it today. :down:


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## gleytch (Aug 26, 2007)

This is -*by far*- the most annoying thing about the HR20-700 for me. When the Crop setting works, it is great. It makes the widescreen SD shows exactly fill the screen on my TV. Unfortunately, the Super Crop bug occurs on a much more frequently than it doesn't. Probably close to 98% of the time.

Greg


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

mtnagel said:


> It's happened the fastest ever after a download/reset - I saw it today. :down:


Matt, are you still running the national release software? Why did you reboot? I'm running CE on both of mine and no supercrop yet on either.


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## mtnagel (Sep 18, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Matt, are you still running the national release software? Why did you reboot? I'm running CE on both of mine and no supercrop yet on either.


No, the latest CE. I meant the reset that came along with a download.


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