# Enjoy best HD picture with Native ON?



## Cavicchi (Oct 28, 2008)

With the statement came this DTV pamphlet, sort of a pamphlet, that clearly states "Enjoy the best HD picture for your TV! and goes on to state Switch Native setting to "ON."

Well, after the tech installed HR44 and 2 C41 clients, I checked and saw all were set to Native "OFF." When I called DTV for a few questions I had, I was told Native OFF is preferred because Native "ON" causes a delay when changing channels, something about having to adjust each channel for whatever they are broadcasting.

When we had Cable, the Encore Western channel always had bars on the sides, which was expected since that channel is not in HD. Now, with DTV, the same channel is always full screen, no bars. Now, please don't misunderstand, I do not like bars, only drink at home, and I don't like prison.

So, how does DTV do it? I see Encore Western listed as a HD channel, and old movies with Gene Autry--way before HD--are full screen. I do not have settings to Stretch, nope, and so I thought it must be Native OFF, nope. I changed it to Native ON with Original Format--no stretch, and still full screen.

The only thing I can think of is DTV is up-scaling the picture, so is that the answer?

As for Native On or Off, is that just a matter of preference or can you qualify why one setting is preferred?


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## gov (Jan 11, 2013)

We've had more threads here on slow DirecTV HDDVR operation than almost anything else.

LOL!!!!!


:coffee


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## nmetro (Jul 11, 2006)

There is a button called "Format" (at least this is on the DirecTV remote for an HR34), this can be used to adjust to screen to add or get rid of color bars. It looks like this is what is happening here. Just keep pressing the "Format" button until you get the the side bars fro Encore westerns.



Cavicchi said:


> With the statement came this DTV pamphlet, sort of a pamphlet, that clearly states "Enjoy the best HD picture for your TV! and goes on to state Switch Native setting to "ON."
> 
> Well, after the tech installed HR44 and 2 C41 clients, I checked and saw all were set to Native "OFF." When I called DTV for a few questions I had, I was told Native OFF is preferred because Native "ON" causes a delay when changing channels, something about having to adjust each channel for whatever they are broadcasting.
> 
> ...


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

The original format is not the format the picture was made in,
it is the Original format of the screen that you have your receiver set to. For HD TVs this is 16:9.

Try this setting.
Native ON, for screen Format choose Pillar Box. If the movie is an old one for the old TVs it will have the black areas on the left and right sides of an HD 16:9 TV.
If any doubt, put the TV on a channel that is SD and see it. If it fits the screen ( stretches it side to side ) then the TV is causing everything to fit to the screen. It should be set to 16:9 also.

I run mine this way and have only the 720p and 1080i resolutions selected. The 480i seems to be the resolution that causes most of the delay.
If you have a new Genie you probably do not have a delay enough to pay any attention to.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

When Native Mode is ON, your TV auto-changes to match the resolution of the program coming into the receiver. When Native Mode is OFF, your receiver will display the program at the highest resolution set on the TV Resolutions screen. Native Mode slows down the system's response time to channel changes. Basically it's personal preference when using Native Mode ON/OFF.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

jimmie57 said:


> The original format is not the format the picture was made in,


I have to disagree. Original format doesn't add pillarbars or letterbox, so a 4:3 image is sent to the TV as 4:3 and not 16:9 [pillarbar].


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## Jason Whiddon (Aug 17, 2006)

Ive always used Native and original format, especially since Im now using something thats doing the scaling (that I can trust). Depends on your video chain as to what is the best "setting".


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

veryoldschool said:


> I have to disagree. Original format doesn't add pillarbars or letterbox, so a 4:3 image is sent to the TV as 4:3 and not 16:9 [pillarbar].


Pillar Box adds the black bars if the content is SD.
If a supplier filmed in SD and added the bars before sending it to DTV as an HD format they will remain there no matter what you set the TV and the receiver to.

Original format will stretch a program to fit the screen, when in fact is was not filmed to fit the screen.
.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

I posted this in early 2012 and can not find it so I am posting it again now.

Why do I run my HD TV using Native ON and selecting the 720p and 1080i resolutions ?

There was a very interesting discussion between customers a few months ago on this forum.

One person said to run everything as 1080i and have Native to OFF.
Advantages:
Faster to change channels.
Less possibility of an HDMI Handshake problem.
When a channel is broadcast in 1080i and sent to the TV the TV just changes from Interlaced to Progressive for the method to put the lines on the screen.
Disadvantages:
Receiver changes a 720p broadcast ( 60 frames per second and progressive ) to Interlaced and 30 frames per second and to 1080i.
You lost half of the frames of the signal in the conversion.
Then it puts it to your TV.
If your TV is 1080p is changes it back from 1080i to 1080p Progressive.
Lots of manipulating of the signal.


The other was saying to run Native to ON and check the 720p and 1080i resolutions.
Advantages:
There are more than 20 channels that are 720p in my favorites list. They are not manipulated by the receiver at all.
When they get to the TV the TV simply increases the size to fit the 1080p TV screen or do nothing if the TV is a 720p TV.
When a channel is broadcast in 1080i and sent to the TV the TV just changes from Interlaced to Progressive for the method to put the lines on the screen.

I chose the latter of the discussion.
However, there is no right or wrong to either method. Choose the method that appears to be better for you and your TV.


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## Supramom2000 (Jun 21, 2007)

VOS, what do you set yours to? I don't use an AVR except when watching a movie. What would you recommend for direct HDMI connection to the TV? From and HR44.

Jimmie, you were posting at the same time, so I missed yours until later. Thanks for sharing that!

What do you recommend for a 52 in Panny plasma via HDMI directly.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

jimmie57 said:


> Pillar Box adds the black bars if the content is SD.
> If a supplier filmed in SD and added the bars before sending it to DTV as an HD format they will remain there no matter what you set the TV and the receiver to.
> 
> Original format will stretch a program to fit the screen, when in fact is was not filmed to fit the screen.
> .


You might want to spend some time looking into this.
Does your TV report what format [4:3 & 16:9] it's receiving?
"Format" only effect SD when the receiver is set to 16:9 and only HD when set to 4:3.
"Your TV" is what stretches with original format and you may find a setting that will not do this.
I used to set my TV to zoom 4:3, to remove the "window box" for 16:9 on an SD channel.
Changing to original format would have the TV zoom to fill the screen and the TV scaler did a better job than the receiver's "crop".

The more you play, the more you'll see which does what.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

jimmie57 said:


> However, there is no right or wrong to either method. Choose the method that appears to be better for you and your TV.


This discussion has gone on since I came to this forum.
"Basically" it comes down to which piece of equipment you want to do the scaling.
To have something other than the receiver do it, it causes slower channel changes.
If your scaler doesn't scale better than the receiver, there's no need to use native and can set the receiver's output to your TV's "native" resolution.
If on the other hand, your scaler [TV's or AVR's] does a better job, then you "tolerate" slower channel changes for PQ.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

veryoldschool said:


> You might want to spend some time looking into this.
> Does your TV report what format [4:3 & 16:9] it's receiving?
> "Format" only effect SD when the receiver is set to 16:9 and only HD when set to 4:3.
> "Your TV" is what stretches with original format and you may find a setting that will not do this.
> ...


Those are all settings in the DTV receiver.
If I have my DTV set to Native ON and Pillar Box and go to one of the Encore channels that is not HD the picture is a 4:3 shape.
If I change the Format in the DTV receiver to Original it stretches the picture to fill the screen. It does this no matter what resolution I send to the TV. I have tried them in 480i, 720p and 1080i.

My TV does not show anything except the resolution it is receiving and what connection it is on. My TV is set to 16:9 always. My DTV receiver is also set to 16:9.


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## ejbvt (Aug 14, 2011)

For me on both TVs (LG and Samsung), the picture is noticeably worse with native "on".


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

jimmie57 said:


> Those are all settings in the DTV receiver..


"Most" TV's have similar settings.
If yours doesn't then you can't see everything that is going on.
The reason "original format" was added, was because some users wanted to use the TV's scaler for "wide zoom" or a variable stretch format.

I'm only trying to explain this in more detail as your post was inaccurate, but this may be due to your limited ability to see what these settings are doing along with how TVs interact with them.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

veryoldschool said:


> "Most" TV's have similar settings.
> If yours doesn't then you can't see everything that is going on.
> The reason "original format" was added, was because some users wanted to use the TV's scaler for "wide zoom" or a variable stretch format.
> 
> I'm only trying to explain this in more detail as your post was inaccurate, but this may be due to your limited ability to see what these settings are doing along with how TVs interact with them.


MY TV is a Samsung LNA46550 LCD.

It does not matter to me what people use.
I like mine set as I have already stated.
Also, my last line is:
*However, there is no right or wrong to either method. Choose the method that appears to be better for you and your TV.*


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

jimmie57 said:


> *However, there is no right or wrong to either method. Choose the method that appears to be better for you and your TV.*


Which is exactly the bottom line here.
Pick what you like.

When describing what the processes are, it helps to know what each does and how they interact.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

Supramom2000 said:


> VOS, what do you set yours to? I don't use an AVR except when watching a movie. What would you recommend for direct HDMI connection to the TV? From and HR44.
> 
> Jimmie, you were posting at the same time, so I missed yours until later. Thanks for sharing that!
> 
> What do you recommend for a 52 in Panny plasma via HDMI directly.


I have never played around with a Plasma TV.
The thing I recommend for all it to just try it with the Native ON and use the 720p and 1080i settings.
And then choose the 1080i setting and use Native OFF.

My son runs his with Native OFF and the 1080i setting on his Mitsubishi 52" LCD. He likes the speed when changing channels and surfing the Guide.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Supramom2000 said:


> VOS, what do you set yours to? I don't use an AVR except when watching a movie. What would you recommend for direct HDMI connection to the TV? From and HR44.
> 
> Jimmie, you were posting at the same time, so I missed yours until later. Thanks for sharing that!
> 
> What do you recommend for a 52 in Panny plasma via HDMI directly.


I too missed this in posting.
How I can tell which scaler I want to use is....
Turn native on and have 480 selected.
Tune to an SD channel.
Compare it to when the receiver is set to 1080 output.
With the 44 and the RC71, you'll need to use the menu in the header to change resolutions since the 71 doesn't have the format button.

SD on a 1080 screen ends up with around 90% of the image being scaled [or made up] so it will show the differences more than HD.

On my Sony XBR2, I had all resolutions checked and native on.
YMMV


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## Cavicchi (Oct 28, 2008)

Guys, thanks for all the information.

What I do know is the picture quality with it set as is from DTV, Native Off and original format, looks great! No bars and it looks terrific with SD. When I had Cable and used Stretch, the PQ wasn't anywhere near as good as what I'm getting from DTV with the settings I mentioned. However it's happening is fine with me


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

One other additional consideration to note;

Particularly for those (like me  ) who's eyesight isn't the greatest any longer.

Native on or off, having only HD resolutions selected with the format on Pillar Box is advantageous as it prevents the Guide, CB, and menus from being displayed in a 4:3 display frame like the picture when viewing a 4:3 SD channel.

Therefore I personally prefer jimme57's configuration myself and we use it on all the HD DVRs here, but for those who prefer native off with only a single HD resolution like 1080i selected (and format on Pillar Box) will work as just as well in this regard.


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