# Charlie or Rupert to buy Motorola's satellite unit



## xxxx (May 25, 2002)

Say goodbye to 4DTV or say hello to the next Charlie-Rupert race.


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## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

Except in the broadcast realm of things Motorolas satellite offings and business has dried up.

Can you imagine that Charlie Ergan selling cable converters to the cable companies? (The Digital Cable boxes from Motorola are basicly the same as their satellite receivers and both use the same Digicypher II security which has not been hacked)

Can you imagine that if Echostar took over the making of Motorola products, how many unhappy cable subs would there be?


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## Guest (Jul 22, 2002)

We are the Ergen. You will be assimilated.


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

_"... how many unhappy cable subs would there be?"_

Hey Scott, cable subs are ALREADY unhappy, what were you thinking?


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## markh (Mar 24, 2002)

> _Originally posted by austinsho _
> *We are the Ergen. You will be assimilated. *


Resistance is futile.


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

It's nice to see that Charlie, the once loved folksy satellite guy from Tennessee will acheive the same status as Bill Gates when it comes to being reviled.

It's interresting. I'd like to know the point at which "Little guy takes on the big, bad corporate world and wins" becomes "Big bad corporate guy is trying to take over the world and we need a little guy to slay him".

See ya
Tony


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

What's the source for this "information"? I couldn't find it anywhere (besides here).

Imagine the secure box that could be built if Dish did buy the former General Instruments. I could invision a 4DTV type box that could receive from both C/Ku FSS services and Dish/DTV. It could be an interesting proposition actually.


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## Tim (Apr 24, 2002)

Rking take a look here.

Scroll down a few stories for the "details"....


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

Amazing. I don't think that either Echostar nor Rupert would be a good buyer of these assets. The business with the cable companies would drop to zero with either of them. Cable cos would be trying to change out to different digital formats as soon as word was official. Interesting though.


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## Richssat (Jul 2, 2002)

Like it wasn't trying to be a monopoly already.... Hopefully the powers that be see what ol Charlie is up to and doesn't allow him to merge with/ buy out anything. This industry has more then enough problems without Charlie being the ONLY satellite provider in North America.


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## mnassour (Apr 23, 2002)

Actually, it makes a lot of sense for Charlie (in his eyes) to wind up with this prize as well.

BOTH DirecTV and Dish have signal integrity problems and the DCII system is, so far at least, unhacked. The question is...is it cheaper for New Echostar to develop its own line of receivers and pray the don't get hacked, or go for an already-developed system that as of yet is still secure?

As with everything that concerns Charlie, it boils down to a matter of dollars and cents.

One possible problem....this would lead to Charlie being the sole equipment supplier to StarChoice up in Canada, an oddball relationship since he would then be the equipment supplier to the competitor of his partner up there, ExpressVu.

And we may want to remember that New Echostar may not be buying DC for its business (i.e., the cable company sales) but rather the product for the DBS market.

In any of these articles, has anyone mentioned a purchase price for Motorola's DC Division?


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## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

Mike since it appears that Starchoice is up for sale, I don't think that equasion really facors in. Especially if the rumor is correct and that Bell ExpressVu wants to buy Starchoice and switch all of its Echostar equipment to GI/MOTS Digicypher system.

BTW most Digital Cable systems use Digicypher II Technology as well and it still has not been hacked.


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## mnassour (Apr 23, 2002)

Hmmm....that's right Scott, I forgot that SC itself is on the block! Has there been any confirmation that BEV will switch out the equipment? If nothing else, this means we'll finally see a DC box combined with a PVR, something the SC folks have been waiting for for a long time!


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## Guest (Jul 23, 2002)

DCII would work with existing E*/D* boxes? 

I don't think so.


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## mnassour (Apr 23, 2002)

No, no, Zuma, no one said that.

I'm saying that a DC PVR is something that the SC folks have been waiting for. The SC subscribers have wanted one ever since BEV launched the 5100 months ago....and there's technical no reason a combined E/SC company couldn't produce one.

In this land of what-ifs, each and every DirecTV, Echostar and BEV box gets replaced by a DC box. Charlie's already said the DirecTV boxes are gone if the merger goes through. Given the piracy problem, I wouldn't be surprised if some version of this scenario is on the table.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

Then how come is DirecTv replacing their H and HU cards with a P4 card if this merger would go through and none of the DirecTv systems would not be used?


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## mnassour (Apr 23, 2002)

Charlie said immediately after the merger agreement that equipment changes were probable. Also, it's widely known that the aborted agreement for News Corporation to merge with Echostar was killed because Murdoch wanted Echostar to switch to the DirecTV type receivers. At that time, those had been compromised and Echostar had not.

The current release of new DirecTV cards is, IMHO, a stopgap measure designed to knock back piracy a bit. Remember, if the merger is approved, it will still be many months before any equipment changes take place. 

Whether the card swap suceeds in stopping the pirates or not, we'll see. But the NDS equipment (used by DirecTV) has been compromised almost since day one....and Ergen won't tolerate that.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

I can see them swapping the H cards but not all the HU cards when it was not long ago when they were replacing those H cards with the HU cards and this merger is soon apon us. Before they would have them all swapped or just shortly thereafter they would have to be swapped again for another new standard.


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## Guest (Jul 24, 2002)

> _Originally posted by mnassour _
> 
> One possible problem....this would lead to Charlie being the sole equipment supplier to StarChoice up in Canada, an oddball relationship since he would then be the equipment supplier to the competitor of his partner up there, ExpressVu.
> 
> ...


It is reported in BCE paper The Globe & Mail that BCE owned Expressvu is in merger talks with Shaw owned Star Choice.

The driving forces are:
a) continuing mounting loss at Expressvu
b) cost to upgrade 1.1 M Expressvu subs to dual sat operation next year
c) losses due to ongoing hacking of Nagravision

Moving to DCII on Anik C/Ku birds makes sense because Canada has 4 adjacent C/Ku slots that can be "seen" using Star Choice's existing elliptical dishes - only LNBF upgrades needed.

In addition, by the end of 2003, BCE owned Telesat will have 3 new high powered Anik satellites (F1, F2, F3) in 3 of the 4 slots plus ANIK E2 available to move to 114.3

The sticking points are Canadain government approval for merger, plus Industry Canada will be concerned about potential loss of 91 and 82 DBS slots due to lack of use.


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## mnassour (Apr 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Jacob S _
> *I can see them swapping the H cards but not all the HU cards when it was not long ago when they were replacing those H cards with the HU cards and this merger is soon apon us. Before they would have them all swapped or just shortly thereafter they would have to be swapped again for another new standard. *


The reason is that the Hu card is as badly compromised as the H card ever was. In fact, BOTH of the DBS systems have severe security problems....hence, the interest in Digicipher. Hu users on other boards have already reported receiving the new card, so the swap is indeed under way.


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## mnassour (Apr 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Anything could happen _
> *
> 
> It is reported in BCE paper The Globe & Mail that BCE owned Expressvu is in merger talks with Shaw owned Star Choice.
> ...


Thanks for telling me where I saw that article! For the benefit of anyone who'd like to read it, it's at:

http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet...rows=1&search_results_start=1&query=expressvu


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## Guest (Jul 24, 2002)

A move to DCII by Expressvu could result in lower profits for a merged E*/DTV - even if Charlie takes over production of consumer receivers from Motorola.

With 3 Anik satellites blanketing all of N.A. including Mexico, I can see every HD equipped American subscribing to a merged Expressvu/SC if they can't receive HD networks OTA. Plus the merged company would have the bandwidth to do east and west HD feeds.


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## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

> A move to DCII by Expressvu could result in lower profits for a merged E*/DTV


How do you figure that? Since the DCII stream has not been cracked it means lots of folks who steal service will have to pay for it. I would think this purchase would pay for itself in no time.


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## Guest (Jul 25, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Scott Greczkowski _
> 
> How do you figure that? Since the DCII stream has not been cracked it means lots of folks who steal service will have to pay for it. I would think this purchase would pay for itself in no time. ]


Charlie's problem with any DCII deal is the Kudelski (Nagravision) investment/future investment in Echostar.

He either takes Kudelski's cash and settles for an unsecure system - or else forgo the cash, pay royalties to Motorola and have a secure system.


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## mnassour (Apr 23, 2002)

......or....take the Kudelski cash and BUY Motorola's Digicipher....

...which is where Charlie apparently wants to be.


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## gcatlett (Apr 11, 2002)

The security of Nagravision has been compromised somewhat, but not to the extent of NDS's Videoguard. Nagra can be hacked,but it is shortlived and alot of work,it also depends on the receiver and card version you have. Digicypher is more secure than either of the other two,but for how long? There has been talk on the hacker boards about progress being made on Starchoice's system. There is no such thing as 100 percent secure system. If E* swapped to DC, the interest in hacking it would increase dramatically,eventually,it would be hacked as well.


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## PeterB (Jul 25, 2002)

Actually, Nagravison has been hacked more extensively. It can be totaly emulated in software without an access card, something any DTV setup requires, for its onboard asic. Its not as hacked as in number of people doing so, but much more is known about the nagravision access cards than the NDS ones. Its a little harder in respect to you cant just get your hands on a card and pop it into any reciever and watch tv, but its pretty extensive in Canada, i've seen it firsthand.


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## RJS1111111 (Mar 23, 2002)

...that the hackers don't do it for the sheer "joy of hacking";
they're in it strictly for the (illicit) money to be made.
They're at least as corrupt as the elite they profess to despise.


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## zuma hans (Apr 23, 2002)

The Motorola 4DTV forum people are convinced this story is a rumor.

The "evidence" cited in the article is a broken URL and the fact that the 4DTV repair phone number is now no longer answered by Motorola people, but by a different company.

Not mentioned is the fact that Motorola had already announced it was outsourcing that function anyway.

Methinks this may be false news.


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## Guest (Jul 27, 2002)

Motorola just tanked another 10% as CEO Breen left to rescue Tyco International. DCII is getting cheaper for Charlie everyday.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

The thing is if DC (Digicypher) is hacked then how can they combat this having a cardless system? Would they have to swap out all of the receivers? Aint the DC hardware more expensive than the Dish/Direct hardware? Is there a slot where they could start putting cards into a slot in the board in the DC receiver?


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