# Urgent Action Required



## dwforslund

I received a impersonal letter in the mail today from Dish (that said it was time sensitive but with no dates or deadlines) that it was necessary to upgrade one or more of my older model receivers at no charge to me so I can continue to receive my programming. It says that if I don't take advantage of this that I will no longer receive DISH network programming on the televisions connected to those older model receivers. It gives a number to call, but no indication of which receivers or when this must be done by. We have a 301 and a 721. I suspect it is the 721 because they grandfathered it a while back indicating that it couldn't be replaced with the same unit if it fails. Has anyone else received this letter? If so, what are they replacing it with? And will I have to pay the monthly fee for the DVR which I've not had to pay with the 721. I will call Dish, but wanted to know more about it before I do.


----------



## Salemsat

I also received the same letter. I have a 721 and a 501. I've noticed recently that my 721 has been "losing" channels, most recently 109 but before that LINK and some in the 9000 range. However, like you, I want to get more information before calling DISH. I plan to go by a local retailer and see if he knows what's up. And yes, I think that we'll have to pay the DVR fee for any replacement receivers.


----------



## BNUMM

The letter should only apply to MPEG-2 HD receivers. They will be able to receive programming but will not get any HD programming. The model numbers are 6000, 811, 921 and 942.


----------



## dwforslund

I don't have any HD receivers. I'm sure it is the 721 because of licensing issues mentioned elsewhere. We'll see.


----------



## James Long

I'd bet on the 721 ... since it is at end of life and DISH will not be replacing them like for like when they fail.

But the only way to know for sure is to call!


----------



## aloishus27

my parents received a similar letter and they have a 722 and a 301. so perhaps this is the beginning of the SD switch to mpeg-4. slowly replace all older mpeg-2 models with mpeg-4 and them make the switch. we are here in florida so perhaps they are phasing all of us over to eastern arc.

just a theory.


----------



## UGAChance

The 721 does not support the new smart cards and will be a doorstop when they turn on the new encryption across the board.


----------



## Richard King

My 508 has not been recalled to this point in time, so, it doesn't appear that it is receivers in the 5xx range being recalled.


----------



## fphart

*I received the Urgent Action Required letter in the mail today from Dish Network. I called and spoke to a less than knowledgeable customer service representative.

It seems that Dish wants to replace the 721's with 522's. As far as I can tell they will apparently will wave the monthly DVR fee for the 522. It was hard to be sure though because the person I spoke to at dish contradicted himself a few times during our conversation.

I asked if I would be able to pay a little bit more and upgrade to the 722 instead of a 522, and at first it seemed that I would be able to. I figured since DISH is pushing the TurboHD package maybe it was time to make the move to HD. As it turns out I would be able to get the 722 HD receiver, but I would have to pay $125.00 + 7.50 per month and another 5.00 per month for the ability to use the DVR. And I wouldn't even own the new 722. It might be time to DUMP DISH! *


----------



## dwforslund

Did they give you a deadline for the 721 no longer working? The price they quoted you for the HD upgrade doesn't sound all that bad. I thought the service upgrade was $10/mo and the per month fee goes without saying. But couldn't you get the 522 anyway and still get the 722 (since the price they are quoting you is pretty much the same if you had no DVR)?


----------



## jtnygard

I called Dish, and can confirm the letter is for upgrading 721 to 522, which the representative said to be comparable in features to the 721 but with updated equipment. The upgrade needs to be done by November 2008. The 522 can be shipped out to the customer for self-installation or professionally installed at no cost to the customer for either option. The 522 will be leased even if you own your 721, so Dish requires a credit card check. The monthly cost to the customer will be the same as before.

This is a special upgrade plan to upgrade 721 to 522. You cannot choose a different receiver and apply some discount to that upgrade or waive the DVR fee for another receiver as part of this program.

Finally, there is no way to transfer your recorded programs from the 721 to the 522.


----------



## Salemsat

I also called DISH but was able to upgrade to the 622 for $50. The rep said that the upgrade fee is usually $100 but since I had been a customer since 1996, she'd cut it in half. It will be a leased receiver although there seems not to be a leasing fee (unless that is included in the annual fee that we pay). So the only additional charge seems to be the $10 a month that we'll pay for High Def and the additional receiver fee for our 501, which we'll keep. This rep said that the 721 is an MPEG 2 receiver and would not work with the MPEG 4 broadcasts. DISH will also credit my account for $10 if I return the 721 to them (I'm guessing shipping would be more than that!).


----------



## srk

I too have called these hosers and received contradictory information. The first guy told me the upfront costs are free, but I would be charged a $5/mo rental fee. I currently own my 721, so this would be a problem. I called back and spoke to a supervisor which clarified the issue. There would be no change to the bottom line. The "additional receiver fee" would be magically transformed to a receiver lease fee and the bottom line on the bill would be the same. If I cancel the service, the new 522 will need to go back.

We'll see if the bill does stay the same. If not, direct tv would be an easy transition as well as $2/mo less than what I am currently paying. It'd be pretty easy for Dish to lose a customer of 12 years. I'll just join the mass HD exodus to Direct, where they apparently have it together.


----------



## tnsprin

UGAChance said:


> The 721 does not support the new smart cards and will be a doorstop when they turn on the new encryption across the board.


Nothing to do with the smart cards. The 721 could be made to work with the new smart cards but they are not going to be.

This is the Tivo lawsuit. And the software for them was not (could not?) be changed to comply with the permanent injunction and the DVR function has to be disabled. Rather than do that they are ofering a replacement with one they feel does comply. Of course Tivo thinks the replacement also doesn't comply.


----------



## James Long

tnsprin said:


> Nothing to do with the smart cards. The 721 could be made to work with the new smart cards but they are not going to be.
> 
> This is the Tivo lawsuit. And the software for them was not (could not?) be changed to comply with the permanent injunction and the DVR function has to be disabled. Rather than do that they are ofering a replacement with one they feel does comply. Of course Tivo thinks the replacement also doesn't comply.


This is NOT the Tivo lawsuit. Placed 721s are being counted under the 192,708 units that DISH is _PERMITTED_ under the injunction to leave running. DISH has decided to replace 721s with other receivers _when they fail_ to avoid "new placements" of a product that still infringes, but it is perfectly legal and accepted by Tivo to leave the placed 192,708 receivers running.

The 721 is at the end of life. Any resources spent on keeping it running with large changes (such as the smart card change) would be better spent on more modern forward going products.


----------



## Smegal

I get what you are saying about 721 being at the end of life. But, what a waste of an outstanding piece of equipment.


----------



## James Long

I've had some good equipment over the years that reached end of life. Some of it I wish was still supported ... much of it had to be pulled out of service by finally breaking or losing it's ability to function ... the modern replacements for that stuff isn't all bad.


----------



## Smegal

Thats true. My upgrade from the 921 to the 722 left me wondering why I took so long to do this, just for the added recording time alone.

When the 921 was supported it was a good unit. The last firmware upgrade downgraded the 921's performance. It seemed like it was on purpose to get people to upgrade. 

As for the 721 it still does what it is supposed to do. I know the newer units will have more recording space but it seems like a waste to just throw out these units at this time.

Right now, we customers are getting fair deals with these upgrades as long as no additional fees are tacked on. 

I think the issue is for people who bought and own the receiver, when the upgrade is made they no longer own the equipment, it's leased. I always bought my own equipment and I figured to upgrade my equipment when I needed to. Now dish needs you to upgrade, so it would make it easier if dish upgraded an owned receiver for an owned receiver. I certainly would have jumped sooner.


----------



## long term dishplayer

I have a 7200 and got the same letter. they are sending 501, 508, or 509 replacement


----------



## jtnygard

Smegal said:


> I get what you are saying about 721 being at the end of life. But, what a waste of an outstanding piece of equipment.


I have to agree. I got a 625 rather than a 522, since the local office didn't have any 522s. So far I'm pretty disappointed with the picture quality when comparing to the 721. There are lots more compression artifacts in the picture. Is that what I should expect? On the other hand, the 625 is much faster when I scroll down the program guide.


----------



## EagleTar

James Long said:


> This is NOT the Tivo lawsuit. Placed 721s are being counted under the 192,708 units that DISH is _PERMITTED_ under the injunction to leave running. DISH has decided to replace 721s with other receivers _when they fail_ to avoid "new placements" of a product that still infringes, but it is perfectly legal and accepted by Tivo to leave the placed 192,708 receivers running.
> 
> The 721 is at the end of life. Any resources spent on keeping it running with large changes (such as the smart card change) would be better spent on more modern forward going products.


Got to disagree with you...

I'm pretty sure they would handle a new smartcard just fine.The reason I say that is because we still have an old 2700 subbed and were notified we would be getting a new smartcard for it in the next few weeks.It's got to be related to the TIVO lawsuit somehow.


----------



## James Long

The 2700 is not a 721.


----------



## puckwithahalo

> The 2700 is not a 721.


What an astounding observation James 



> I'm pretty sure they would handle a new smartcard just fine.The reason I say that is because we still have an old 2700 subbed and were notified we would be getting a new smartcard for it in the next few weeks.It's got to be related to the TIVO lawsuit somehow.


It is not related to the TIVO lawsuit. Simply put, the software for the 721 is not being updated to be able to accept the new smart cards. It is even possible that they simply can't be updated to accept it. To be honest, I do not know the why of it. But for whichever reason, those receivers will not work with the new smart cards, and that is why they are being replaced.


----------



## EagleTar

James Long said:


> The 2700 is not a 721.


Your kidding!!

My point being that the 721 has much more memory than the lowly 2700 and should have no problem accepting a new smartcard.

I see many conflicting reports that state that the 721 921 71/7200 models are being swapped out because of the tivo lawsuit.Do you have any proof thats not the case or just as my statement speculation?

They said the old 512k irds wouldn't support Nagra2 but they did and it also looks like they will support nagra3 so it makes sense to me that the 2meg and larger memory irds would have no problem updating to nagra3.Thats what I'm basing the assumption of it's because of the tivo lawsuit on.


----------



## James Long

I believe those making the connection to the Tivo lawsuit have a very limited understanding of that lawsuit. Perhaps they don't understand what the injunction requires nor DISH's position on compliance. DISH considers unmodified 721/921/942s compliant under the injunction as part of the 192,700 receivers they are permitted to continue to operate. Tivo agrees. There is no legal dispute as to the status of 721/921/942 receivers.

There was a dispute over replacement receivers (sending customers refurbished 721/921/942s when one fails) but DISH decided to stop that program and replace with modern receivers - so that dispute has ended. There is no dispute over working 721/921/942s placed in customer's homes prior to April of 2008.


----------



## EagleTar

James Long said:


> I believe those making the connection to the Tivo lawsuit have a very limited understanding of that lawsuit. Perhaps they don't understand what the injunction requires nor DISH's position on compliance. DISH considers unmodified 721/921/942s compliant under the injunction as part of the 192,700 receivers they are permitted to continue to operate. Tivo agrees. There is no legal dispute as to the status of 721/921/942 receivers.
> 
> There was a dispute over replacement receivers (sending customers refurbished 721/921/942s when one fails) but DISH decided to stop that program and replace with modern receivers - so that dispute has ended. There is no dispute over working 721/921/942s placed in customer's homes prior to April of 2008.


Seems like a lot of money to swap out all those irds plus the 6000 5000 and 811.I'll take your word on the swap not being because of tivo.

Where do the 71/7200 models fit in?Are they in the same category as the other pvrs on the swap list?


----------



## James Long

EagleTar said:


> Seems like a lot of money to swap out all those irds plus the 6000 5000 and 811.I'll take your word on the swap not being because of tivo.


Actually if you put a little thought into it you will see a lot of discontinued models being replaced ... not just the 721 ... the non-DVRs certainly are not being replaced because of Tivo. It is all just part of a plan to move forward.



> Where do the 71/7200 models fit in?Are they in the same category as the other pvrs on the swap list?


Looks like a 501 or 508 would be the replacement - See here


----------



## dwforslund

Salemsat said:


> I also called DISH but was able to upgrade to the 622 for $50. The rep said that the upgrade fee is usually $100 but since I had been a customer since 1996, she'd cut it in half. It will be a leased receiver although there seems not to be a leasing fee (unless that is included in the annual fee that we pay). So the only additional charge seems to be the $10 a month that we'll pay for High Def and the additional receiver fee for our 501, which we'll keep. This rep said that the 721 is an MPEG 2 receiver and would not work with the MPEG 4 broadcasts. DISH will also credit my account for $10 if I return the 721 to them (I'm guessing shipping would be more than that!).


I called and got the same deal and upgraded to a 722. I gave the 721 to the installer for the $10 (no shipping required) as I had no more need for it. The name based recording of the 722 is very nice as is the HD performance. The additional channels and the ability to DVR the OTA digital channels make it work the $10/mo IMHO.


----------



## tyleit

dwforslund said:


> I called and got the same deal and upgraded to a 722. I gave the 721 to the installer for the $10 (no shipping required) as I had no more need for it. The name based recording of the 722 is very nice as is the HD performance. The additional channels and the ability to DVR the OTA digital channels make it work the $10/mo IMHO.


I have been following the posts regarding the 721 changeout but have not seen anyone report a situation like mine. 
I have TWO 721's in service and would like to upgrade both to HD-DVR's.
I have seen reported here nice discounts offered to long term subscribers in good standing (which I am) to upgrade to one HD-DVR. 
Anyone have any thoughts on what response I may get for a request to replace my two 721's for a TWO HD-DVR's?

Thanks


----------



## puckwithahalo

> Anyone have any thoughts on what response I may get for a request to replace my two 721's for a TWO HD-DVR's?


Yes you can do it. Best way to find out what you qualify for is to log in to dishnetwork.com and click on my equipment, equipment upgrades, dishin' it up...and it will tell you what you qualify for. You would actually have to call in to set it up though....


----------



## ratfink

I have an owned 721 and received the mail notice. Gave dish a call at 3am (sounded like they were having a party in the background), and they sent a new 522 with no monthly payments. Credit card was required to secure the "lease", actually not really a lease (no payments), only if I were to cancel my dish contract prior to expiration and not return the 522.

I like the 522 over the 721, faster menu, plus the box came with a large assortment of new cables  Never had many problems with the 721, lucky me, except for occassional freezing and slow menu.

I'm keeping the 721 for all the saved movies on the drive. Is not hooked up to the dish, just sits there as a player. The parts alone are worth more than $10 to me (power supply, etc..) so I be keepin' it.


----------



## shadough

The one feature I used the fuq out of on my 721 was that A/V input. Does anyone know if any other dish recievers have and A/V input? I'm really missing it now, as my TV only has 1 A/V input (I know I'm still in the dark ages but I'm more inclined to keep my house payments going than buy new tvs) so I'm currently using the 522 replacement thru 'coaxial' ch-3 onto my TV, just so as to get everything 'connected' to somethin.

The 721 just seemed like it was such an advanced receiver, I'm surprised they didn't continue w/ its development. Theres an explansion slot in the back of it for 'something' and it has TWO USB ports, 1 in the front, 1 in the back, that were never 'activated'. Plus the A/V input was sweet, too bad you could'nt DVR thru it though. What a waste.


----------



## puckwithahalo

none of the newer receivers have that feature.


----------



## dishrich

Anyone else with a 721 that has NOT received a letter or call about the swap-out?
Still waiting to receive one here...


----------



## puckwithahalo

> Anyone else with a 721 that has NOT received a letter or call about the swap-out?
> Still waiting to receive one here...


Just call in and say you'd like to participate in the discontinued receiver promotion. The agent won't know or care if you've gotten the letter yet


----------



## flatus

and let me know how it went, rich. I'm still holding out on the swap out until a few people report it has gone smoothly.


----------



## shadough

So far for me, smoothly. Took about a week to recieve the 522. Activated it on sunday and been using it since. Miss the ole 721, which is still 'in service' sort of.....at least connected to my small tv an DVD recorder so I can continue to record 'things' off of it. I am liking some of the features on the 522 but miss some of the old 721 features also. I noticed the PIP window is a lil bigger on the 522 than the 721. Takes up more of the screen. Havent noticed any 'charges' on my bill yet. Time will tell.


----------



## flatus

Thanks for the update.


----------



## shadough

Uhhhhh I guess I spoke too soon. Perhaps I should of said nothing, then everything would be OK????? Nah. Just after I typed my response, last night, the 522 froze up and reboot and I was unable to use DVR features. Rebooted it again and it was ok. Today when I was using the DVR features, it locked up again, error code 311 reference 0521, which basically means the Drive is failing. Was able to look that info up right here on dbstalk, wonderfull resource. SOooo just got off the phone w/ tech support and they are sending me another 522. I know this one was a refurb, and likely the next one too. I got them to activate my 721 to use in the interim (allthough I havent checked to see if it is actually active).


----------



## shadough

The saga continues.........

I received my 'replacement' 522, naturally a refurb. I got everything connected an plugged in an plugged in the power. After about 5 mins I got a message on the TV2 screen ONLY, saying something to the effect of, "This is in use by TV1" Few minutes after that, I got the message, "Smart card not inserted correctly". TV1 had just a black screen the whole time. The front panel buttons were unresponsive as were the remotes. The only thing I could do from the front panel was hold the power down for a soft restart, which I tried several times, along w/ the hard restart (unplug chord).

After talking to tech support for a while they figured out that the software version (factory default?) was not compatible w/ the new G3 purple card. And since you could NOT get passed the compatibility issue to even run a check switch to download a version that WAS compatible, the unit was basically useless. They are shipping another unit.

lol

Now I have 2 522's that don't work, w/ a 3rd one on the way! I CAN at least still use the 1st 522, as just a receiver though. Every several minutes it goes 'click click click click click' as it _tries_ to fire the harddrive, but never does.

One other odd thing I found was that the SECOND 522 I received, has "MPEG 2" inscribed on the front of the unit. The other 522 does not. I thought these receivers were mpeg4 compatible? Isn't that the point of upgrading in the 1st place?


----------



## BNUMM

Most of the receivers I have installed lately have not had the smart card inserted all the way. Sometimes you have to remove the card and wipe it off before re-inserting it.


----------



## SingleAction

BNUMM said:


> The letter should only apply to MPEG-2 HD receivers. They will be able to receive programming but will not get any HD programming. The model numbers are 6000, 811, 921 and 942.


All the histeria about the standard def receivers not(stop) working!

I got an automated message on my answering machine the other day with the warning again.

I have one vip622, and 2 old dishplayer 7200's.

I went thru the same BS with customer service, and asked for a supervisor.

He told me the same info, that it had nothing to do with the standard def receivers!


----------



## flatus

i posted this in the general forum a few days ago.

I was going to call dish this weekend about my 721, on Friday evening Dish called me.

It must have been that CSR's first day. She couldn't get the computer to work (her description) and had to get help selecting my address for shipping out the new receiver.

The entire conversation was the following:



> CSR: I'm calling tonight because we need to replace your 721 receiver.
> Me: OK.
> CSr: We will be sending you a 522, in a minute I will give you an ra number which is like your receipt.
> Me: OK.
> CSR: Do you want to have it shipped to you or would you like it installed for you?
> Me: Just shipped to me would be fine.
> 
> ---5 to 7 minutes on hold ----
> 
> CSR: sorry about that wait, I has having problems with selecting your address. Is there anything else I can do for you?
> Me: Didn't you say you were going to give me a RA number or something?
> CSR: Oh, yeah. let me get that for you.
> 
> ---another 5 to 10 minutes on hold ---
> 
> She came back on and gave me the number and that was it.


That is literally the whole conversation although not exactly verbatim. Nothing about the receiver being leased even though i own my 721, no mention of any fees or waiver of fees, nothing. I wanted to ask about them, but honestly, I was worried that she would mess up my account if she had to do anything else.

I do not have a lot of confidence that this will be a problem free transaction. time will tell i guess.


----------



## puckwithahalo

> He told me the same info, that it had nothing to do with the standard def receivers!


Those 7200's will stop working when the final transition to the new smart cards is finished. Now, that may be a while, and its possible they may get cut off before then, but they do need to be replaced.


----------



## flatus

Chapter 2: 

Sitting with me are two boxes with 522's in them, sent to slightly different addresses -- neither of them my actual address. 

I would hate to be a delivery driver and have to figure out these kinds of things. 

What a mess. Does anyone have any advice on a time of day to call, or a different number to call that might put me in touch with an experienced CSR? 
I am not looking forward to spending my entire Friday evening on hold for their screw ups. 

Or is it? I have a 508 as a second receiver. I was under the impression that they were not going to be replaced. Has that changed? Is that second receiver for the 508?


----------



## puckwithahalo

508 not being replaced at this time.


----------



## normang

So, if you have a 508 it can be activated? Or if its not, its toast?


----------



## puckwithahalo

you can activate it.


----------



## jrbdmb

Well, since I haven't logged on in quite a while, I didn't realize that my 721 was going to be deactivated soon. Not sure if we got "the letter" since my wife reads the mail. 

I may look into another receiver than the 522 ... it seems strange that they would replace one discontinued receiver with another. Maybe the 612 - running AV cables to a 2nd televison upstairs doesn't really make any sense.


----------



## buist

Well,
it took less than 24 hours for the $4.51 pro-rated "Lease receiver fee" to appear on my account (522 replacing 721). I called yesterday to get it fixed. The CSR I spoke with said he agreed that the fee should not be on my account, but that it would take up to 10 days to disappear. He was sending messages to another department that "handles this type of thing".

I activated the receiver online (per the instructions in the email I received for the swapout). It did deactivate my 721, but I wonder if I should have just called..

Tim


----------



## shadough

I received my 3rd 522, yes another refurb/reman model, hooked it up and even used the _online_ activation process. It alll went smoothly and its still working fine 7 days later. I sent back the other 2 522's. I checked my account online and I had 5 receievers active on my account. 2 of them were the 522's I was sending back. I believe the one was deactivated even though I was never able to activate it in the 1st place, but the other one......not sure.

And my 721 is still active also (I had the csr re-activate it so i could have at least ONE working DVR during all the swap outs). I'm gonna leave it active until my programming disappears (who knows how long that will be??). Its usefull having 2 dual tuner DVRs. I had to use another dish and some multiswitches to get the other tuner signals.

The one thing I like about the 522 is the ability to watch each tuner independently in the 2 different rooms (as well as DVR events). Two things I do NOT like: 1). It will only pause a program for 2 hours, whereas my 721 would hold it for much much longer. 2). doesnt have that audio video input like the 721.


----------



## pwelka

I have a DishPlayer 7200. I got the "Urgent Action" letter a few weeks ago. Then I got a phone call from somebody at Dish who offered to send me a receiver (a 508, I think) at no charge. I said I wasn't interested because that would be a downgrade. She said she had no information about the features of either receiver and asked me to call Customer Service. I haven't heard from them since. Anybody know when they're going to "throw the switch"?


----------



## buddhawood

pwelka said:


> I have a DishPlayer 7200. I got the "Urgent Action" letter a few weeks ago. Then I got a phone call from somebody at Dish who offered to send me a receiver (a 508, I think) at no charge. I said I wasn't interested because that would be a downgrade. She said she had no information about the features of either receiver and asked me to call Customer Service. I haven't heard from them since. Anybody know when they're going to "throw the switch"?


I'd like to know the answer to this as well.


----------



## puckwithahalo

Probably once the smart card upgrades are done. No, I don't know when that will be.


----------



## chainblu

I don't think anyone knows. Depending on who you ask, it could be several weeks or several months before the 'switch' is thrown.


----------



## BobaBird

I'd call going from a 7200 to a 508 more of a side-grade (gain some, lose some). See http://www.dishuser.org/508vs7100.php

Gain
Name-based recording with Dish Pass (wish list)
More timers, 96 (I think) vs 50
Search history
Caller ID
Quicker menu navigation using numbered options
Lose
Keyboard
Drive swapping
PIP or sound on most menus
Remote code lookup


----------

