# Those with issues with their receivers after yesterday's glitch...



## DarinC (Aug 31, 2004)

I'm trying to see if there's a pattern here, and if anyone has been able to recover theirs with issues similar to mine. I have two HR21s, one of which recovered fine (HR21-100), one of which still hasn't(HR21-200). The one that hasn't has an external drive attached to it. On the surface, it seemed in the "big thread" it seemed like most with problems recovering had external drives. But that's hard to determine without a poll. I didn't get home until late last night, so I wasn't able to get to them first. My understanding is the "bad" unit had the spinning circle of lights, and when the TV was turned on it was scanning the disk. This morning, it appeared to be working, but didn't really test it as I didn't have time. When I got home this evening, it's back to the spinning circle of lights. It appears to be going through an endless cycle of "step 1 of 2" during boot taking forever (15+ mins), then jumping straight to the disk scan screen, completing that saying no errors found and no errors corrected, sitting on that screen for 5+ mins, then jumping to a screen saying there's a problem with the storage device, to try rebooting, and call DirecTV with code 15-020. Choosing the reboot option results in the whole cycle starting over again. I've tried unplugging both the DVR and external drive. I've tried detaching the external drive, but still get the same error (which is expected, as the external drive was just added 10 days ago because the internal drive apparently died). The external drive is brand new, and worked perfectly for the 10 days until the glitch.

So, are there any commonalities? Any solutions? I've very close to just giving up on this receiver, but I can't help but think that the glitch or the pushed reboot just caused some kind of error on the drive, or even the firmware, that needs to be cleared off. I really wish I could do a _real _reformat. I've tried to go into the advanced diagnostics, but it just sits on the screen that says "entering diagnostics mode". I expect it will eventually time out, and end up in the same loop as above. I'll update if it ever changes.


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

Some have indicated that these scans can take up to 30 hours or more. I'd recommend patience for right now.


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## Marlbs (Feb 19, 2010)

I am having a simular issue with my HR23.

I have tried to reboot it, pull the plug, etc... at some point this afternoon it much have recovered to the point where I was getting live TV again, but all it does is studder, no matter if the signal is coming off the satellite or if it is coming off of the OTA via the AM21.

Now after I pulled the pulg on it and let it come back up it just sits there at the step 1 of 2 with the lights just spinning and it has been doing that for over 1 hour.

I am at a loss as to what the problem is.


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## blusgtone (Feb 4, 2007)

I tried all the same things, still no luck. I have a lot of season finales on my 1tb and really want to get it back.


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## TBlazer07 (Feb 5, 2009)

I have both types (2 w/internal upgraded and 2 w/external eSata) with no problems.


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## old7 (Dec 1, 2005)

I have 2 HR20-700 DVRs both with external drives, no issues other than needing to reboot twice yesterday. 2 of my 3 HR24-500 DVRs also have external drives and had no issues at all.


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## DarinC (Aug 31, 2004)

TBlazer07 said:


> I have both types (2 w/internal upgraded and 2 w/external eSata) with no problems.


Ugh, I should have structured the poll differently to account for multiple DVRs. :nono2: Oh well, as long as people post, we can figure that out.


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## bridge (Feb 10, 2008)

HR22 restarted up just fine. R-22 with b-line converts never recovered. I called DTV and they had me re-try everything I already tried. I've been elevated to tier two "engineering" services. Evidently, according to the CSR, they will design a "special" patch, just for little ol' me So...I guess I just let it sit there...while I watch that maniacal spinning blue light...and wait...


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## DarinC (Aug 31, 2004)

DarinC said:


> I've tried to go into the advanced diagnostics, but it just sits on the screen that says "entering diagnostics mode". I expect it will eventually time out, and end up in the same loop as above. I'll update if it ever changes.


I turned away for a bit, and when I went back to it, it was running the same scan that it's been doing (instead of sitting at the diagnostics menu). So I guess my expectation came true.


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## barryb (Aug 27, 2007)

I have a few DVR's and they all recovered


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## drpjr (Nov 23, 2007)

Three HR20-100's. All have 1TB or larger internal HDD's. All recovered nicely.


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## MikeW (May 16, 2002)

My R22 gets stuck on step 1 of 2 for about 20 minutes. I just let is sit while I do other things.


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## denvertrakker (Feb 6, 2009)

R22-100. Took about 6 RBR's to get it to wake up, this morning everything SEEMS OK, and guide has repopulated. Fingers crossed.

Oh, and I got the email too...


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## ntwrkd (Apr 19, 2006)

Actually have 3 dvr's- the HR24-500 was fine and 1 of my HR-21 100's (have 2 with external drives) was boned. All is well now after wifey rbr'd the one in the kitchen.:shrug:


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## eckhart (Mar 1, 2007)

I have 3 HD DVRs, and all recovered after multiple RBRs. On my HR21, however, my 30+ scheduled events and all recorded material was wiped on my external eSata (Calvary 1TB). The other DVRs also had external drives (750gb Free Agent Pros) and those were not affected.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

I voted “I have a DVR with an EXTERNAL drive, and it HAS recovered”.

I also have a DVR with an internal drive and that has recovered also. 

Mike


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

All my HRs came back up properly both with internals and eSATAs. Have no problems at all. Would have voted if the poll allowed for multiple choices.

Rich


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## DarinC (Aug 31, 2004)

MikeW said:


> My R22 gets stuck on step 1 of 2 for about 20 minutes. I just let is sit while I do other things.


Just to clarify, it's not that I'm not giving it enough time, after it spends 15+ mins on step 1 of two, the DVR jumps straight to a disk scan on it's own. Trying to force an advanced scan results in the same thing. Once it's done, the only choice is to reboot, which results in the same loop

At this point, based on the preliminary poll results, it does look like an external drive does indeed greatly increase the chances that something go wrong: 33% vs. 6% for an internal drive. Obviously, those numbers aren't accurate, because there are likely more people with issues responding to the poll that people without issues. But the _relative _difference between the internal drive responses and external drive responses should be indicative of something.

Exactly why an external drive would have more issues, I'm not sure. Perhaps because it's powered up the entire time. Or maybe something to do with how or when the DVR connects to the external vs. the internal. Since there does appear to be a much higher percentage of people with external drives that just so happened to "fail" during this glitch compared to internal drives, that suggests this isn't just a coincidence: it wasn't just weak hardware that was on the verge of dying, with death triggered by the mere fact that it was rebooted (and in fact, a reboot on an external drive may even be less stressful than an internal one, since an external wouldn't go through a power cycle - internal, I'm not sure).

So then the question becomes: is it likely, or even possible for the DVR to "kill" a drive? Can it send data to the drive that actually makes it fail? I would tend to lean towards that it's something more simple: somehow the "glitch" put some "bad" data on the drive that is causing something to make the DVR think that the drive is bad. The DVR disk scan repeatedly says the drive is good, but then acts like it's bad during boot. So I guess my next step is going to be to connect the drive to a PC, reformat it, then connect it back up to the DVR. That should cause the DVR to reformat it. *If *it's just a data glitch, that should get rid of it. But if that doesn't work, I guess I just need to call DirecTV and get the DVR replaced. :shrug:


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

DarinC said:


> Just to clarify, it's not that I'm not giving it enough time, after it spends 15+ mins on step 1 of two, the DVR jumps straight to a disk scan on it's own. Trying to force an advanced scan results in the same thing. Once it's done, the only choice is to reboot, which results in the same loop
> 
> At this point, based on the preliminary poll results, it does look like an external drive does indeed greatly increase the chances that something go wrong: 33% vs. 6% for an internal drive. Obviously, those numbers aren't accurate, because there are likely more people with issues responding to the poll that people without issues. But the _relative _difference between the internal drive responses and external drive responses should be indicative of something.
> 
> ...


I've had more than one eSATA killed by an NR. I also think that when an eSATA and an HR come "on" at the same time it becomes a crapshoot as to whether the HR will properly recognize the eSATA.

Logically, an NR should not wreck an eSATA. The eSATA powers up well before the HR is even in the "blue screen". But it's happened to me too many times to really buy into that logic. The best thing you can do is unplug an eSATA before the NR hits. But that's damn near impossible to do since you never know when the NR is gonna download.

The one thing that's never happened to me since I started using UPS on all my HRs is losing an eSATA as the result of a power outage. In that case the eSATA always comes thru unscathed. I have always immediately unplugged all my eSATAs and all my HRs in the event of a power outage. Then I follow the protocol of plugging in the eSATA first and then plugging in the HR. Has worked every time so far.

Consider those two scenarios and you will see that following the proper protocol for getting the HR to recognize the eSATA seems to work every time. You just can't do that when an NR downloads.

Want to wreck an eSATA? Pull the jumper cord out of either the HR or the eSATA when they are running correctly and then plug it back in. Then it becomes a matter of pure luck. Most likely bad luck.

The problems I've had with the eSATAs are what has caused me to purchase owned HRs on the Net. I've never had an HDD go bad after an NR when it was used internally. I think I've proved to myself that eSATAs are not trustworthy. Large internals in the HRs simply work better. And the larger the internal drive, the better the HRs work.

Rich


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## BruceS (Sep 23, 2006)

I noticed you have an HR21-200.

I have an HR20-700 , an HR21-200 and an HR24-500.

Both the HR20 and HR21 locked up yesterday morning, while the HR24 continued to operate normally.

I was able to do the dual boot easily on the HR20-700, but was never able to get the HR21-200 to boot until the fix was sent yesterday afternoon. I tried unplugging the power and waiting various times without success as well as multiple attempts at RBR.

At least when the fix was sent, the HR21-200 did power up and has worked fine since that time.

Both the HR21 and HR20 have external drives.

I also noticed that when the fix was sent the HR24-500 booted as well.

The only thing I needed to do to get everything working correctly after the fix was do one more boot of the HR24-500 using the menu's. It did not show the shows recorded on the other boxes until that was done.


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## TAnsley (Sep 21, 2006)

Everything on all of my DVRs from an MRV perspective were working great until the download glitch the other night. My two HR20s have recovered fine and MRV between them works fine.

My new HR24 though seems to have lost its ability to connect to the network. I simply get "169" networks when set to automatic and get network errors if I manually set the IP settings for my network. 

I have rebooted the HR24, reset the networking settings, etc. to no avail. 

Any thoughts? Ideas? I am obviously running in an MRV solution that is "unsupported" as I do not have DECA, but am using hard-wired ethernet, so i cannot contact D* about this. :nono:


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## DarinC (Aug 31, 2004)

rich584 said:


> I've had more than one eSATA killed by an NR...


Hmm, that's troubling to hear. And I can't fault your logic... when I first got this unit, I put an external drive on it that failed before it's (expected) time, but I was willing to accept that as luck of the draw. I reverted back to the internal drive until that ultimately died, which I "fixed" by putting this new external drive on it. I hate to think that my 10 day old external drive got fried by DirecTV's glitch, but it's certainly possible. I'll attach it to a PC, run WD diagnostics on it, reformat it, and try it on the DVR again. If it truly is dead, I'll get DirecTV to replace the DVR, and stick to the internal drives from now on. Now that I've shifted all broadcast TV recording to an HTPC, I don't need nearly as much recording space, so the internal will be fine.

FWIW, I do have a UPS on all my systems. So the drive does stay powered up at all times. But as you say, it's impossible to know when a NR will hit, or a pushed reboot to fix a data "glitch".


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## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

(3) HR21-100: All recovered nicely. 

I must admit, on turn on this morning my remotes refused to work after turn on and bringing up guide. Did a search here and didn't see any similar reports. Was going to do a RBR, but both remotes came back to life.


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## SFNSXguy (Apr 17, 2006)

Two HR20-700s... one with a 750g eSATA one stock. Both recovered fine.


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## SubSlr08 (Dec 4, 2007)

After all the rigamorole the other day it seems like everything is functioning as should be - *EXCEPT* - I don't have any optical output to my stereo receiver. Is this a fluke? Anyone else having this problem??


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

SubSlr08 said:


> After all the rigamorole the other day it seems like everything is functioning as should be - *EXCEPT* - I don't have any optical output to my stereo receiver. Is this a fluke? Anyone else having this problem??


I use optical on all my receivers, and they all came back fine.

I'm connected to an Octava switch with the Optical out going to a Yamaha receiver.

Mike


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## DarinC (Aug 31, 2004)

SubSlr08 said:


> After all the rigamorole the other day it seems like everything is functioning as should be - *EXCEPT* - I don't have any optical output to my stereo receiver. Is this a fluke? Anyone else having this problem??


Is this the first time you've posted about this? I could swear I've seen another post about that issue, but now I can't find it. Maybe I'm getting it confused with TAnsley's loss of ethernet connectivity. I have seen these things behave very oddly with bad drive data. My other HR21 arrived with a bad hard drive, but I didn't realize at first that the HD was the cause. It just acted "flaky". The ring of light would display a single section during normal play, it would spontaneously reboot, etc. It wasn't until the 90 day warranty was up that it actually started giving me "storage device" errors. I replaced the drive, and THAT unit has been operating fine ever since. The unit I'm having problems with now also has an AM-21 attached to it. When it's internal drive started to go out, I would have weird issues where the AM-21 power light would stay on when the DVR was powered down (they normally light in unison). So the moral is: weird things do happen to these things that seem to defy logical diagnostics. :shrug:


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Darin, are you sure that the External Drive has Fully Spun Up before you Plug it into the DVR and Power On the DVR???

Sometimes the eSATA Controller is slow and the DVR does not recognize it because it hasn't responded yet and it thinks there is no activity at the eSATA Port so it boots up in the Internal Drive and if yours is bad then that could be the problem.

Just a WAS!!!


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## DarinC (Aug 31, 2004)

Yes, I've powered both down a couple different times, waited, and powered the external up well before the DVR. And of course, during the initial problem (coming home to the DVR stuck in the scanning screen after the pushed reboot), the external drive would have never spun down to start with. I've watched it when the DVR boots, and the activity light on the external drive does flash. Unfortunately, I've not found any way to determine for SURE that it does in fact decide to go ahead and use the external drive (the scan screen doesn't give any information about the drive it's scanning). But it does scan relatively quickly (45 mins or so), but when it's done, it says 100% passed, no errors found or corrected. But then it sits on the "everything's good" screen for about five minutes before progressing to the "everything's not good with the storage device, try rebooting" screen. But I think regardless, if I reformat the drive with NTFS, I would think that would force the DVR to immediately do it's own format once it's reconnected, so I should then know for sure that it's using the external. I'll report back tonight.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

DarinC said:


> Hmm, that's troubling to hear. And I can't fault your logic... when I first got this unit, I put an external drive on it that failed before it's (expected) time, but I was willing to accept that as luck of the draw. I reverted back to the internal drive until that ultimately died, which I "fixed" by putting this new external drive on it. I hate to think that my 10 day old external drive got fried by DirecTV's glitch, but it's certainly possible. I'll attach it to a PC, run WD diagnostics on it, reformat it, and try it on the DVR again. If it truly is dead, I'll get DirecTV to replace the DVR, and stick to the internal drives from now on. Now that I've shifted all broadcast TV recording to an HTPC, I don't need nearly as much recording space, so the internal will be fine.
> 
> FWIW, I do have a UPS on all my systems. So the drive does stay powered up at all times. But as you say, it's impossible to know when a NR will hit, or a pushed reboot to fix a data "glitch".


Unfortunately, it took me a couple years to see what should have been obvious about the eSATAs. I still have a couple and they have weathered every storm. But I know it's only a matter of time until one gets shot and dies. Don't think anybody can be blamed for this, we accepted the "unsupported" eSATA function and were happy with it, but after buying my own HRs and putting the huge HDDs in them it's pretty plain to me that this is the way to go.

Most of the problems folks have had that were caused by the NRs to the eSATAs couldn't have been avoided and the UPS does nothing during an NR. At least when the power goes out folks can and should disconnect the plugs on both the HRs and the eSATAs and power them up in the proper sequence when the power comes back on.

Of all the eSATAs I have had, I gotta say that the MX-1 enclosures were, by far, the least susceptible to harm from an NR.

Rich


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## poppo (Oct 10, 2006)

Well it seems like both internal and external drives have problems. and while the poll may not be totally accurate, a 7% non-recovery rate is not good if it is even close to being accurate. Even a 1% failure rate would be a huge headache for DirecTV.


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## DarinC (Aug 31, 2004)

rich584 said:


> after buying my own HRs and putting the huge HDDs in them it's pretty plain to me that this is the way to go.


Yes, the "good" unit I have is the one that arrived with a bad drive which I replaced (with a larger drive). I've had no problems with it since. But that is an owned unit (which is why I didn't/couldn't dump it back in DirecTV's lap when the drive died). The one I'm currently having problems with is leased. But it is SUCH a PITA to pull it out and replace it, that I really want to fix the issue if at all possible before resorting to that.


> Of all the eSATAs I have had, I gotta say that the MX-1 enclosures were, by far, the least susceptible to harm from an NR.


That's interesting. I THOUGHT that the eSATA data is essentially just passed straight through from the eSATA connector on the back of the enclosure to the drive itself, and the differences between enclosures just comes down to cooling, power quality, and circuitry for other interfaces, if present. But of course, if it does have multiple interfaces (as most due, such as USB), I guess there could be different implementations in how those are "switched". But regardless, if I can't get this fixed, I'll definitely just be using the stock internal drives going forward. I just hate that I went and bought a new drive 10 days before the "big glitch". :nono:


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## DarinC (Aug 31, 2004)

poppo said:


> Well it seems like both internal and external drives have problems. and while the poll may not be totally accurate, a 7% non-recovery rate is not good if it is even close to being accurate. Even a 1% failure rate would be a huge headache for DirecTV.


Yes, I agree, but again, I certainly wouldn't use these numbers as anything close to an indication of how many units couldn't recover. I was just trying to quantify a difference in failure rates between internal and external drives. But it seems clear that the external drives have had a higher failure rate, and thanks to input from others, it does appear that they are, for whatever reason, more susceptible to "glitches" than internals. So even if I don't get mine fixed, the information gathered has been helpful. Lesson learned.

But I agree, regardless of what the real numbers are, obviously some units were brought down by the glitch. I guess the positive spin on that is that hopefully that gives DirecTV financial incentive to focus on preventing them in the future. :sure:


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## SubSlr08 (Dec 4, 2007)

MicroBeta said:


> I use optical on all my receivers, and they all came back fine. I'm connected to an Octava switch with the Optical out going to a Yamaha receiver. Mike





DarinC said:


> Is this the first time you've posted about this? I could swear I've seen another post about that issue, but now I can't find it.


Thanks, Mike. I'm going thru a switch too but everything else hooked to it seems to be OK - DVD & DVD-Rec. Maybe the TOS link got pulled loose or something while I was fiddling with the power plug. Oh, how I hate to crawl back there, tho......

Darin, I did post something two days ago on the 03Xfe discussion or issues forum, but I can't find it either~! 'Lil 'tronic gremlins, I suspect. 

Thanks.............


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## ThomasM (Jul 20, 2007)

I have an R22 but no HD. It locked up and rebooted by itself around 3PM like all the HD DVR's but it seems to have recovered completely including the guide now having all the "cast & crew" and that new parental narrative back.

Perhaps some of the units that didn't recover had something to do with HD?


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## DarinC (Aug 31, 2004)

Success! Well, at least for now. This morning before I left for work, it still hadn't made any progress. So I turned it off (hearing reports that extended periods turned off my help). After leaving it off for 11 hours, it went right back to the same loop it's been stuck in since the glitch. So I powered it down, and proceeded with my plan: connected the drive to a PC, ran WD extended diagnostics (took a little over 2 hrs, it's a 640GB drive), which it passed. Then I used the WD utility to write zeroes to the drive (full erase rather than the quick one). That took another 2+ hrs. Powered it down, connected it back up to the DVR, powered up, the DVR formatted it, then it booted right up.

I'm not 100% convinced that it's not going to crap out again. I seem to remember when the 1st external went bad that it would pass diagnostics on the PC, and work for a bit after a format. But I've got my fingers crossed that the drive really is good. If it does error out again, I think I've done all I can do. I'll have to bite the bullet and just replace the DVR, and avoid external drives in the future.

So if anyone out there has a unit with an external drive that still hasn't recovered, try the steps above.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

DarinC said:


> Success! Well, at least for now. This morning before I left for work, it still hadn't made any progress. So I turned it off (hearing reports that extended periods turned off my help). After leaving it off for 11 hours, it went right back to the same loop it's been stuck in since the glitch. So I powered it down, and proceeded with my plan: connected the drive to a PC, ran WD extended diagnostics (took a little over 2 hrs, it's a 640GB drive), which it passed. Then I used the WD utility to write zeroes to the drive (full erase rather than the quick one). That took another 2+ hrs. Powered it down, connected it back up to the DVR, powered up, the DVR formatted it, then it booted right up.
> 
> I'm not 100% convinced that it's not going to crap out again. I seem to remember when the 1st external went bad that it would pass diagnostics on the PC, and work for a bit after a format. But I've got my fingers crossed that the drive really is good. If it does error out again, I think I've done all I can do. I'll have to bite the bullet and just replace the DVR, and avoid external drives in the future.
> 
> So if anyone out there has a unit with an external drive that still hasn't recovered, try the steps above.


Based on the results...that evidence would lead me to believe there was a 60/40 probability there was an issue with the drive over the DVR itself.


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## DarinC (Aug 31, 2004)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Based on the results...that evidence would lead me to believe there was a 60/40 probability there was an issue with the drive over the DVR itself.


Well, I guess it may be an issue of semantics. From DirecTV's perspective, there _is _an issue with the DVR, because the internal drive is bad. From their perspective, it's not considered a user serviceable part. So the DVR, as a unit, is "bad", and should technically be replaced. However, because I didn't want to hassle with getting a replacement, I simply attached an external drive. Which worked fine until "the glitch", which also, based on the results, caused issues for a disproportionately high percentage of other external drive users.

While it's probably too early to proclaim definitively that the drive is actually fine, preliminary results would suggest that there's actually nothing wrong with the drive: The DVR diagnostics repeatedly said there were no errors, yet it wouldn't boot with the drive. Western Digital diagnostics say there's nothing wrong with the drive. And after wiping the drive and re-attaching it to the DVR, it is (so far) working just fine.

So the results would lead ME to believe that "the glitch" imposed a data error on the drive that the DVR was simply unable to remove. Once it was removed with external tools, the DVR seems happy with the drive. I'm not sure why would think there's a 60/40 chance the drive was the problem.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

DarinC said:


> Well, I guess it may be an issue of semantics. From DirecTV's perspective, there _is _an issue with the DVR, because the internal drive is bad. From their perspective, it's not considered a user serviceable part. So the DVR is bad, and should technically be replaced. However, because I didn't want to hassle with getting a replacement, I simply attached an external drive. Which worked fine until "the glitch", which also, based on the results, caused issues for a disproportionately high percentage of other external drive users.
> 
> While it's probably too early to proclaim definitively that the drive is actually fine, preliminary results would suggest that there's actually nothing wrong with the drive: The DVR diagnostics repeatedly said there were no errors, yet it wouldn't boot with the drive. Western Digital diagnostics say there's nothing wrong with the drive. And after wiping the drive and re-attaching it to the DVR, it is (so far) working just fine.
> 
> So the results would lead ME to believe that "the glitch" imposed a data error on the drive that the DVR was simply unable to remove. Once it was removed with external tools, the DVR seems happy with the drive. I'm not sure why would think there's a 60/40 chance the drive was the problem.


Agreed that from their perspective...they'd see it as the DVR.

That said...it will be interesting to see how your "experiment" works out over the next month or so. Much like PCs....recurring problems would likely show up sooner if they're going to come back.


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## JoeDokes327 (Jun 11, 2010)

I have a HR20-100 with a 2TB external WD MyWorld drive. Got the same 24 hour scan and reboot. No errors found by scan but HR20 rebooted to the internal drive. I have rebooted numerous times. If it recognizes the external drive it goes into scan mode, if it does not it boots to the internal drive. When it boots to the internal drive all functionality appears normal with the exception of not having access to the 1.4 TB of programming on the external drive and all of the DVR settings stored on the external drive. Tech support had no suggestions other than A. contacting the HD manufacturer (like they wound have a solution) or B. hook it up to my HR21. I had to remind him that hooking it to the HR21 would destroy all the recordings on the external drive. This is my theory on the problem. The faulty update was loaded to the external drive. When they sent the fix for it, the update went to the internal drive because the first update rendered the external drive inaccessible. Because the system will not boot to the external drive there doesn't appear to be any way to replace the faulty update on the external drive. It's curious that some people have been able to reboot their external drives and others can't. Perhaps the "transmission glitch" affected different brands of drives in different ways. So far have no ideas other than continuing to attempt reboots and hope one eventually works. Any new info out there on a solution. When I talked to DTV they acted like they were unaware of any issues with external drives.


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## DarinC (Aug 31, 2004)

JoeDokes327 said:


> It's curious that some people have been able to reboot their external drives and others can't. Perhaps the "transmission glitch" affected different brands of drives in different ways.


It would also be interesting to compare whether or not people "fixed" the glitch themselves with RBRs, as opposed to those who weren't home at the time and had the DVRs sitting in the unresponsive mode until DirecTV pushed the reboot. I wasn't home, so ours depended on the pushed reboot, and was in the scan screen when we got home. Different people were also on different NRs, maybe some were recording and some not, there could be many variables.


> So far have no ideas other than continuing to attempt reboots and hope one eventually works.


With external drives being an "unsupported" feature, I doubt that you'll get a solution from DirecTV. At some point, absent of any other suggestions, you may have to give up on maintaining the existing recordings, and try wiping the drive like I did. For me, it was just an issue of spending the time to do it. Since that drive had only been in operation for 10 days, it wasn't like there was a ton of stuff on there (especially considering that it's not our only DVR, and we don't use these DVRs for locals any more). I understand it can be painful with a 2TB drive that has been acquiring programming for a long time.


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## poppo (Oct 10, 2006)

DarinC said:


> It would also be interesting to compare whether or not people "fixed" the glitch themselves with RBRs, as opposed to those who weren't home at the time and had the DVRs sitting in the unresponsive mode until DirecTV pushed the reboot.


That's a good point. The double reboots flushed the guide data by doing two within a certain time. The reboot command sent by DirecTV apparently was supposed to also flush the guide instead of a simple reboot. The different methods may have resulted in different results.



DarinC said:


> That's interesting. I THOUGHT that the eSATA data is essentially just passed straight through from the eSATA connector on the back of the enclosure to the drive itself, and the differences between enclosures just comes down to cooling, power quality, and circuitry for other interfaces, if present. But of course, if it does have multiple interfaces (as most due, such as USB), .....


At least with the MX1 case there is additional circuitry since it has a USB interface too. This may be why I never had any problems booting to the external drive while the internal one was pysically disconnected. Some people said theirs would not boot at all if the internal was not connected.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

poppo said:


> At least with the MX1 case there is additional circuitry since it has a USB interface too. This may be why I never had any problems booting to the external drive while the internal one was pysically disconnected. Some people said theirs would not boot at all if the internal was not connected.


How long ago was it that you tried to run an HR with the internal unplugged or removed? There was a time when you could do it, but that time has passed as far as I know. The last time I tried it was in response to a post by *Trailblazer*, who could not get his 20-100 to boot up with the power disconnected to the internal HDD and I had to try it. Tried it with the same 20-700 that I ran for several months without an internal and it wouldn't boot up on the external drive. You can get them to boot up on the external and then remove the internal's power cord, but as far as I know, you can't get a full reboot with the power cord removed.

Rich


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## poppo (Oct 10, 2006)

rich584 said:


> How long ago was it that you tried to run an HR with the internal unplugged or removed?


I was right doing it up until about 2 weeks ago (with several reboots to prove it still worked). The only reason I put the external drives inside the HR20-700s (two of them) is because the fan had failed on one of the MX1 cases. But it was working fine with the internal disconnected long after the claim was made that it would not work. <shrug>

Of course I am regretting it because the annoying 'thrashing' is even louder in the unit than in the external cases. :nono2:


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## rbharned (Jun 11, 2010)

I had similar issues with an HR20-700 and WD 2TB external drive... the HR20 was completely bricked.. multiple multiple RBRs, numerous power up and down with and with out the external Esata drive and nothing but a circular blue LEDs. D* replace my HR-20 with a (hopefully) refurbished one.. and it activated fine without the external drive. When I plugged in (with the HR20 powered down as well as the drive) the Esata drive, it scanned for 18 hours... detected 0 errors. gave code 75-745.... and said restart. So I did that ... and guess what .. the same scan started over. Called D* customer service and they were not helpful at all... basically saying the death of the Esata drive was my problem. I indicated that FIOS was starting to look pretty good now.

So now running WD extended diagnostics... projected time about 10 hrs. Plan to try to reconnect the drive and try again if it passes. If not guess I can format the drive and lose all my programs :<.

Very underwhelmed at the Directv response.


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

rbharned said:


> I had similar issues with an HR20-700 and WD 2TB external drive... the HR20 was completely bricked.. multiple multiple RBRs, numerous power up and down with and with out the external Esata drive and nothing but a circular blue LEDs. D* replace my HR-20 with a (hopefully) refurbished one.. and it activated fine without the external drive. When I plugged in (with the HR20 powered down as well as the drive) the Esata drive, it scanned for 18 hours... detected 0 errors. gave code 75-745.... and said restart. So I did that ... and guess what .. the same scan started over. Called D* customer service and they were not helpful at all... basically saying the death of the Esata drive was my problem. I indicated that FIOS was starting to look pretty good now.
> 
> So now running WD extended diagnostics... projected time about 10 hrs. Plan to try to reconnect the drive and try again if it passes. If not guess I can format the drive and lose all my programs :<.
> 
> Very underwhelmed at the Directv response.


eSATA has always been unsupported, as such, I'm not sure just what you expect them to do?


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## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

hasan said:


> eSATA has always been unsupported, as such, I'm not sure just what you expect them to do?


Start a eSATA fee. :lol:


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

rbharned said:


> I had similar issues with an HR20-700 and WD 2TB external drive... the HR20 was completely bricked.. multiple multiple RBRs, numerous power up and down with and with out the external Esata drive and nothing but a circular blue LEDs. *D* replace my HR-20 with a (hopefully) refurbished one.. and it activated fine without the external drive. * When I plugged in (with the HR20 powered down as well as the drive) the Esata drive, it scanned for 18 hours... detected 0 errors. gave code 75-745.... and said restart. So I did that ... and guess what .. the same scan started over. Called D* customer service and they were not helpful at all... basically saying the death of the Esata drive was my problem. I indicated that FIOS was starting to look pretty good now.
> 
> So now running WD extended diagnostics... projected time about 10 hrs. Plan to try to reconnect the drive and try again if it passes. *If not guess I can format the drive and lose all my programs* :<.
> 
> Very underwhelmed at the Directv response.


You're programs are gone...the new HR20 won't play them. Programs are tied to the receiver they were recorded on.


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## MikeW (May 16, 2002)

DarinC said:


> Well, I guess it may be an issue of semantics. From DirecTV's perspective, there _is _an issue with the DVR, because the internal drive is bad. From their perspective, it's not considered a user serviceable part. So the DVR, as a unit, is "bad", and should technically be replaced. However, because I didn't want to hassle with getting a replacement, I simply attached an external drive. Which worked fine until "the glitch", which also, based on the results, caused issues for a disproportionately high percentage of other external drive users.
> 
> While it's probably too early to proclaim definitively that the drive is actually fine, preliminary results would suggest that there's actually nothing wrong with the drive: The DVR diagnostics repeatedly said there were no errors, yet it wouldn't boot with the drive. Western Digital diagnostics say there's nothing wrong with the drive. And after wiping the drive and re-attaching it to the DVR, it is (so far) working just fine.
> 
> So the results would lead ME to believe that "the glitch" imposed a data error on the drive that the DVR was simply unable to remove. Once it was removed with external tools, the DVR seems happy with the drive. I'm not sure why would think there's a 60/40 chance the drive was the problem.


Glad to see you have a resolution. I own the R22 so I may get the security torx and run some utils on the drive to wipe it clean. I'm guessing that the system is doing some type of CHKDSK each time I reboot. It's only been doing this over the last couple of NRs.


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## worker (Dec 14, 2008)

One of my HR-22's would not recover. It was stuck at step 1 of 2. After numerous reboots I finally ran the advanced disk test on it. It hung at 11% for essentially 2 days. Pulled the drive and tried to run WD diagnostics on it and it won't even spin up. Had a spare WD 1.5gb EADS sitting here so installed it and all is well. I doubt the guide issue killed it, it was probably on the way out and maybe this just helped it along.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

poppo said:


> I was right doing it up until about 2 weeks ago (with several reboots to prove it still worked). The only reason I put the external drives inside the HR20-700s (two of them) is because the fan had failed on one of the MX1 cases. But it was working fine with the internal disconnected long after the claim was made that it would not work. <shrug>
> 
> Of course I am regretting it because the annoying 'thrashing' is even louder in the unit than in the external cases. :nono2:


Huh. I couldn't get the 20-700 to reboot with the power cord to the internal pulled. I dunno what to say.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

rbharned said:


> I had similar issues with an HR20-700 and WD 2TB external drive... the HR20 was completely bricked.. multiple multiple RBRs, numerous power up and down with and with out the external Esata drive and nothing but a circular blue LEDs. D* replace my HR-20 with a (hopefully) refurbished one.. and it activated fine without the external drive. When I plugged in (with the HR20 powered down as well as the drive) the Esata drive, it scanned for 18 hours... detected 0 errors. gave code 75-745.... and said restart. So I did that ... and guess what .. the same scan started over. Called D* customer service and they were not helpful at all... basically saying the death of the Esata drive was my problem. I indicated that FIOS was starting to look pretty good now.
> 
> So now running WD extended diagnostics... projected time about 10 hrs. Plan to try to reconnect the drive and try again if it passes. If not guess I can format the drive and lose all my programs :<.
> 
> Very underwhelmed at the Directv response.


What model of WD HDD were you using? Wouldn't be an EARS by any chance, would it? Sounds like it. If it is an EARS model, you can run diagnostics on it for the next year or so, it's still not gonna work in an HR.

D* has never said it supported the eSATA function, the response you got was proper.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Drucifer said:


> Start a eSATA fee. :lol:


The big mistake they made was _suggesting_ the two eSATAs in the first place. I know that Seagate has little or no interest in their Showcase eSATA and, while the WD that D* suggested does seem to work properly, with that 1TB HDD in it why would you spend the money on it? Remember, it was only a suggestion. I know they meant well, but they shouldn't have done it.

Rich


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

rich584 said:


> The big mistake they made was _suggesting_ the two eSATAs in the first place. I know that Seagate has little or no interest in their Showcase eSATA and, while the WD that D* suggested does seem to work properly, with that 1TB HDD in it why would you spend the money on it? Remember, it was only a suggestion. I know they meant well, but they shouldn't have done it.
> 
> Rich


Good points Rich.

In my case...my 1TB Hitachi has worked flawlessly (and cool and quiet) as an internal HR2x drive for some time now. Sometimes it comes down to specific makes/models to get compatibility. I consider you one of the better experts on that front.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Good points Rich.
> 
> In my case...my 1TB Hitachi has worked flawlessly (and cool and quiet) as an internal HR2x drive for some time now. Sometimes it comes down to specific makes/models to get compatibility. I consider you one of the better experts on that front.


Thanx. Appreciate that thought, I do. 

I've been tempted to try one of the Hitachi HDDs for some time. But I'm hooked on the WDs and will be replacing my Seagate internals with WDs in the near future. More money flying out the window. :lol:

Rich


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

rich584 said:


> Thanx. Appreciate that thought, I do.
> 
> I've been tempted to try one of the Hitachi HDDs for some time. But I'm hooked on the WDs and will be replacing my Seagate internals with WDs in the near future. More money flying out the window. :lol:
> 
> Rich


I can understand that.

I have traditionally been successful with Seagates in the past, but over time, have moved to WD and Hitachi drives...both with success. Ive seen those two manufacturers seem to have better results with cool temps, reliable operations, and low noise.

But you da man, when it comes to the universe of hard drives.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I can understand that.
> 
> I have traditionally been successful with Seagates in the past, but over time, have moved to WD and Hitachi drives...both with success. Ive seen those two manufacturers seem to have better results with cool temps, reliable operations, and low noise.
> 
> But you da man, when it comes to the universe of hard drives.


A couple of my Seagates that were so silent are now chattering and my two WD 2TBs are close to silent, so I do have a reason for replacing the drives. What surprises me is that with TiVos, I had more trouble with WD HDDs than any other HDD with the exception of Samsung HDDs. Never had much problem with Seagates. But, it seems as if WD has surpassed Seagate when it comes to silent running and cooling. The two 20-700s that I have internal WD 2TBs in are running at a steady 120 degrees. The other seven run at about an average of 127 degrees. Does that affect the chattering? I don't know, but the WDs don't chatter as the Seagates do.

How much cooler do the HRs with the Hitachis run at?

Rich


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## rbharned (Jun 11, 2010)

My WD is a model WDH2Q20000N My Book Studio Edition II... it worked fine for more than a year with no issues. I would agree that if I had gone to Best Buy and bought a drive and it turned out to be not compatible -- I would not expect support for that. But to send out a software / data update that killed 1/3 of HR's with external drives (based on the survey in this thread) would seem to implicate D* with some degree of accountability.

Drive passed extended test with no issues and is about 30% thru its 2nd 18 hour scan...next step is to zero the data and see if that works.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

rich584 said:


> A couple of my Seagates that were so silent are now chattering and my two WD 2TBs are close to silent, so I do have a reason for replacing the drives. What surprises me is that with TiVos, I had more trouble with WD HDDs than any other HDD with the exception of Samsung HDDs. Never had much problem with Seagates. But, it seems as if WD has surpassed Seagate when it comes to silent running and cooling. The two 20-700s that I have internal WD 2TBs in are running at a steady 120 degrees. The other seven run at about an average of 127 degrees. Does that affect the chattering? I don't know, but the WDs don't chatter as the Seagates do.
> 
> *How much cooler do the HRs with the Hitachis run at?*
> 
> Rich


My HR2x's (containing Hitachi drives) run about 112-113 degrees - both in rack mounts. Top temp ever was 116 (once).


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> My HR2x's (containing Hitachi drives) run about 112-113 degrees - both in rack mounts. Top temp ever was 116 (once).


They are not 20-700s are they?

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

rbharned said:


> My WD is a model WDH2Q20000N My Book Studio Edition II... it worked fine for more than a year with no issues. I would agree that if I had gone to Best Buy and bought a drive and it turned out to be not compatible -- I would not expect support for that. But to send out a software / data update that killed 1/3 of HR's with external drives (based on the survey in this thread) would seem to implicate D* with some degree of accountability.
> 
> Drive passed extended test with no issues and is about 30% thru its 2nd 18 hour scan...next step is to zero the data and see if that works.


Not many people have gotten the My Book eSATAs to work. I gotta feeling you might have been lucky, real lucky, to have it work for a year. I bought a My Book when it first came out and I think I might have been the first to post about them on the forum. I called WD and asked them why it wouldn't work and they told me that no My Book eSATA would work with a DVR. You're probably the third or fourth person that I've seen post that actually had one work.

I do agree with you about the accountability of D* when it comes to wrecking eSATAs. But, without support, it's always been a crapshoot.

Rich


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

rich584 said:


> They are not 20-700s are they?
> 
> Rich


One was, the other no.

I moved the original one into an HR21-200.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> My HR2x's (containing Hitachi drives) run about 112-113 degrees - both in rack mounts. Top temp ever was 116 (once).


My HR24-500 running with a 2TB WD20EADS is running at 126 Degrees which seems to be high even though it is sitting on a Cool Deck with fans which is used for cooling PCs.

My HR23-700 sitting under it is running at 116 Degrees so Go Figure!!!


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

richierich said:


> My HR24-500 running with a 2TB WD20EADS is running at 126 Degrees which seems to be high even though it is sitting on a Cool Deck with fans which is used for cooling PCs.
> 
> My HR23-700 sitting under it is running at 116 Degrees so Go Figure!!!


Two words....

Heat rises...


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Well, Yes I did figure out that but with the separation by the Cool Deck with Fans under it I wouldn't think that they should be 8 Degrees different in their readings!!!


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> One was, the other no.
> 
> I moved the original one into an HR21-200.


So you got a 20-700 to run at less than 116 degrees with the Hitachi? Or am I not understanding you?

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

richierich said:


> My HR24-500 running with a 2TB WD20EADS is running at 126 Degrees which seems to be high even though it is sitting on a Cool Deck with fans which is used for cooling PCs.
> 
> My HR23-700 sitting under it is running at 116 Degrees so Go Figure!!!


And the vents on the 23 are on the sides. I wonder what the temp parameters are on the 24s?.

I've got two 20-700s stacked on top of each other, no separation at all and they both run at about 126 degrees, which is the high side of the proper temp range for the 20-700s.

What you're seeing seems a bit strange. If you put a 20-700 with a Seagate internal on top of a 20-700 with a WD EADS internal, I'd sort of expect that you'd still read about 126 for the Seagated 20-700 and about 120 degrees for the 20-700 with the WD drive. That seems logical judging from the temps that I get with the two stacked 20-700s with Seagate internals. And that's without a cooling pad.

Huh. What's normal for a 23? Anybody? What's normal for a 24? Anybody?

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Two words....
> 
> Heat rises...


Better to say that heat travels to cold, never cold to heat, this is a real simplistic statement. Means an awful lot tho. In *Richierich's* case, the DVR on top is gonna try to heat the one on the bottom. Heat travels to cold. Add to that the cooling pad, and that whole scenario is really confusing.

Rich


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Well, before I installed the Cool Deck with fans I was running at 140 Degrees for the HR24-500 on top with a 2TB WD20EADS and at 126 Degrees for the HR23-700 on bottom again with a 2TB WD20EADS in it.

After opening the front doors and adding the Cool Deck the HR24 dropped to 126 Degrees and the HR23 dropped from 126 to 118 Degrees, so I wonder it the Temp Gauge is really that accurate on the HR24 or my fan is not working.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

richierich said:


> Well, before I installed the Cool Deck with fans I was running at 140 Degrees for the HR24-500 on top with a 2TB WD20EADS and at 126 Degrees for the HR23-700 on bottom again with a 2TB WD20EADS in it.


Wow, that 140 degrees sticks right out, doesn't it? And if my 20-700s are any indication of how these things work, adding the large internal should have cooled it down. Same for the 23, I know it's not supposed to run that hot.



> After opening the front doors and adding the Cool Deck the HR24 dropped to 126 Degrees and the HR23 dropped from 126 to 118 Degrees, so I wonder it the Temp Gauge is really that accurate on the HR24 or my fan is not working.


I have no idea what the ideal temp range for a 24 is. But the 23 is still running too warmly, no?

Rich


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

I just checked my HR24-500 upstairs and it was running at 118 Degrees and my HR23-700 right under it was running at 118 Degrees.

Well the Internal Fan is Working Okay but the Fan in the back of my Component Rack was not plugged in so I plugged it in and now it has dropped 2 Degrees so I will monitor it and see if it get to 118 Degrees which seems to be Normal.

The HR23-700 dropped to 115 Degrees and the HR24-500 has dropped to 124 Degrees.

I am going to swap them out tomorrow and put the HR24 on the bottom and the HR23 on the top to see what that Yields temperature wise!!!

I think that if they are not in an Enclosure then the temperature should be in the 112 to 116 Degree Range which also depends upon how cool the ambient surrounding temperature is also.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Well, now my HR23-700 is at 113 Degrees and my HR24-500 is around 123 Degrees so it will be extremely interesting to see what happens when I swap them around and put the HR23 on top and the HR24 on bottom.


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## poppo (Oct 10, 2006)

rich584 said:


> Huh. I couldn't get the 20-700 to reboot with the power cord to the internal pulled. I dunno what to say.
> 
> Rich


Just curious, did you only disconnect the power to the drive, or the data cable too? I had pulled both. I could see where it would hang if just the power was disconnected.

On the heat issue, that was one of the reasons I had the internal drives disconnected. The units barely got warm. Of course the temp reading was always wrong because it gets it from the drive (that was not connected). Now they both run at 127 degrees (stacked but separated by about 8 inches). WD 1TB drives.

On a side note, I see the % of non-recovering units is now near 10%. As noted above, even with a large margin of error, I think DirecTV has their hands full.


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## blusgtone (Feb 4, 2007)

I have lost two external drives now, will not work with HR20-700's. I hooked both to PC with usb and the drives are ok, it appears to me that something happened to the esata interface on both drives. Tried them on two different HR20's.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

rich584 said:


> So you got a 20-700 to run at less than 116 degrees with the Hitachi? Or am I not understanding you?
> 
> Rich


The Hitachi ran about 120 degrees in the HR20, and now 113-116 with the HR21.


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## DarinC (Aug 31, 2004)

Just to provide an update, so far my wiped drive is continuing to work just fine connected to the DVR that previosly wouldn't boot with it. It is continuing to appear that the "glitch" simply placed some kind of error that could not be removed by the DVR's buit in tools, but could be removed by wiping via a PC.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

poppo said:


> Just curious, did you only disconnect the power to the drive, or the data cable too? I had pulled both. I could see where it would hang if just the power was disconnected.


Yup, pulled both, seemed logical. Unfortunately, as I'm sure you know, the fan gets it's juice from the power cord and that stops too, but it doesn't seem to matter. The 21's fans all stop when you add an eSATA and you get the default 77 degrees. I've never had a problem with this either.



> On the heat issue, that was one of the reasons I had the internal drives disconnected. The units barely got warm. Of course the temp reading was always wrong because it gets it from the drive (that was not connected). Now they both run at 127 degrees (stacked but separated by about 8 inches). WD 1TB drives.


Wise to use separators, but might be unnecessary. I have two 20-700s stacked right on top of each other and they run at 127 degrees. By the way, the old BBCs make nice separators.



> On a side note, I see the % of non-recovering units is now near 10%. As noted above, even with a large margin of error, I think DirecTV has their hands full.


I think that's about the same figure we've been living with for quite a while. I know that, for whatever reason, each NR kills some HDDs, internal or external, mostly external. Of course, somebody is gonna say that those drives that fail are "marginal" and deserve to fail, but I don't believe that. Perhaps that's true for a tiny segment of the failed drives, but not for all of them.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

richierich said:


> Well, now my HR23-700 is at 113 Degrees and my HR24-500 is around 123 Degrees so it will be extremely interesting to see what happens when I swap them around and put the HR23 on top and the HR24 on bottom.


Rich, my 24-500 is running at 106 degrees as I write this. It's sitting on a shelf in a cabinet with plenty of ventilation. I would think that putting a WD 2TB drive in it would cool that down a little bit.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> The Hitachi ran about 120 degrees in the HR20, and now 113-116 with the HR21.


Cool temp for the 20 (if it is a 20-700) and too warm for the 21. Wonder why that would be?

Rich


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

rich584 said:


> Cool temp for the 20 (if it is a 20-700) and too warm for the 21. Wonder why that would be?
> 
> Rich


Other equipment in the "immediate neighborhood" changed.

In simpler terms, both were 8-9 degrees below previous levels prior to the Hitachi install.

_[Since that time, the HR21-200 has been moved, and now averages 109-112, depending on what other equipment is running in that "immediate neighborhood"]_

Basically - it runs cooler with the Hitachi drive (and quiet).

If folks are looking for a viable replacement...I can confirm these work, and work well in all HR21 and newer units.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Other equipment in the "immediate neighborhood" changed.
> 
> In simpler terms, both were 8-9 degrees below previous levels prior to the Hitachi install.
> 
> ...


Wonder if anybody has tried one in a 20-700? They are kinda picky about the HDDs they will recognize.

Rich


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

rich584 said:


> Wonder if anybody has tried one in a 20-700? They are kinda picky about the HDDs they will recognize.
> 
> Rich


Agree.

As I recall...a number of the issues revolved around supporting 1.5, as opposed to 3.0 throughput, commonly with a "jumper" setting. When the HR20-700 came out, most drives defaulted to 1.5, and only a few supported the 3.0 setup. Now things are pretty much the opposite.

Fortunately, pretty much everything after the HR20 series uses the 3.0 configuration...so more drives (in theory) should work.


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## poppo (Oct 10, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Agree.
> 
> As I recall...a number of the issues revolved around supporting 1.5, as opposed to 3.0 throughput, commonly with a "jumper" setting. When the HR20-700 came out, most drives defaulted to 1.5, and only a few supported the 3.0 setup. Now things are pretty much the opposite.
> 
> Fortunately, pretty much everything after the HR20 series uses the 3.0 configuration...so more drives (in theory) should work.


FWIW, the 1TB WD drives (WD10EACS) that I've been using for quite a while came defaulted to 3.0. It was recommended to jumper them to 1.5 which I did when I had them in the MX1 cases (maybe another reason my units booted to the eSATA with the internal drive disconnected). When I put them inside the HR20-700s, I removed the jumpers and they work just fine at 3.0


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

poppo said:


> FWIW, the 1TB WD drives (WD10EACS) that I've been using for quite a while came defaulted to 3.0. It was recommended to jumper them to 1.5 which I did when I had them in the MX1 cases (maybe another reason my units booted to the eSATA with the internal drive disconnected). When I put them inside the HR20-700s, I removed the jumpers and they work just fine at 3.0


That sure wasn't the case with the Seagate drives...used 2 different models, and the ONLY worked at 1.5.

The HR20's have historically been "more fussy" about drives (internal and external) than others after that generation. For that reason, specific models were determined over time - some worked, some didn't.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Agree.
> 
> As I recall...a number of the issues revolved around supporting 1.5, as opposed to 3.0 throughput, commonly with a "jumper" setting. When the HR20-700 came out, most drives defaulted to 1.5, and only a few supported the 3.0 setup. Now things are pretty much the opposite.
> 
> Fortunately, pretty much everything after the HR20 series uses the 3.0 configuration...so more drives (in theory) should work.


Agree, I do.

Rich


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## blusgtone (Feb 4, 2007)

DarinC said:


> Just to provide an update, so far my wiped drive is continuing to work just fine connected to the DVR that previosly wouldn't boot with it. It is continuing to appear that the "glitch" simply placed some kind of error that could not be removed by the DVR's buit in tools, but could be removed by wiping via a PC.


What did you use to wipe your drive. I tried formatting quick and slow, un-allocating the drive, error checking, everything. I still get blue screen error checking every time.


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## DarinC (Aug 31, 2004)

My drive is a Western Digital, so I used the downloadable WD data lifeguard tool to first scan it for errors, then "write zeros". Each manufacturer has their own tool, and they typically code it to only work with their own drives. The "wipe zeros" function had a "quick" and "full erase" option, I chose full erase. I would expect a full format to essentially do the same thing. It's quite possible that your dive _is _bad. But I'd definitely try the diagnostic tools available for your brand to confirm.


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## JoeDokes327 (Jun 11, 2010)

rich584 said:


> I know that, for whatever reason, each NR kills some HDDs, internal or external, mostly external. Of course, somebody is gonna say that those drives that fail are "marginal" and deserve to fail, but I don't believe that. Perhaps that's true for a tiny segment of the failed drives, but not for all of them.
> 
> Rich


Yeah I guess someone should talk to WD about "marginal" 2 TB drives that work perfectly for 3 weeks and then fail without the slightest warning. No doubt the precise correlation with the timing of that "transmission glitch" was purely coincidental. And just to add insult to injury, while connected to my laptop, the Device Manager sees the physical drive but Windows 7 cannot locate any file structure. Apparently DTV either altered the boot sector or the file system. It looks like whether I want to use it for DTV or for my computer either way I'm gonna have to wipe it and reformat it. Not to mention all the DVD sets I'm gonna have to buy because I'm now missing Episodes 1-5 of a half dozen shows I hadn't had time to watch yet.

Interestingly when I called them, they stated that it was an unsupported feature when initially rolled out but external drives are now a supported feature. But of course there database didn't have a solution to the problem and at that time they wouldn't even acknowledge that they were the source of the problem.

Pete


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

JoeDokes327 said:


> Yeah I guess someone should talk to WD about "marginal" 2 TB drives that work perfectly for 3 weeks and then fail without the slightest warning. No doubt the precise correlation with the timing of that "transmission glitch" was purely coincidental. And just to add insult to injury, while connected to my laptop, the Device Manager sees the physical drive but Windows 7 cannot locate any file structure. Apparently DTV either altered the boot sector or the file system. It looks like whether I want to use it for DTV or for my computer either way I'm gonna have to wipe it and reformat it. Not to mention all the DVD sets I'm gonna have to buy because I'm now missing Episodes 1-5 of a half dozen shows I hadn't had time to watch yet.
> 
> Interestingly when I called them, they stated that it was an unsupported feature when initially rolled out but external drives are now a supported feature. But of course there database didn't have a solution to the problem and at that time they wouldn't even acknowledge that they were the source of the problem.
> 
> Pete


Externals are now supported? Bad CSR!

I've lost too many eSATAs JUST after NRs to buy into the coincidence thing. When something happens repeatedly it becomes empirical data and not coincidence.

Rich


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## DarinC (Aug 31, 2004)

Jost to post an update, my "externally formatted" drive has continued to operate without any issues for the past month. I don't doubt those that have had external (or possibly even internal) drives "killed" by NRs or other "glitches, but based on my results, it appears that there may at least be SOME cases where the drive itself is still good, but the "glitch" simply caused bad data to be written that the HR itself simply doesn't have the tools to correct. So anyone who has a drive that appears to have failed after a data glitch or NR, I'd definitely recommend connecting it to a PC and doing a FULL erase/format before giving up on it.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

DarinC said:


> Jost to post an update, my "externally formatted" drive has continued to operate without any issues for the past month. I don't doubt those that have had external (or possibly even internal) drives "killed" by NRs or other "glitches, but based on my results, it appears that there may at least be SOME cases where the drive itself is still good, but the "glitch" simply caused bad data to be written that the HR itself simply doesn't have the tools to correct. So anyone who has a drive that appears to have failed after a data glitch or NR, I'd definitely recommend connecting it to a PC and doing a FULL erase/format before giving up on it.


Glad to hear some good news your way on this. I know you went through some frustrating time...but a month of no pain is nice to see.


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