# How the R15 handles the buffer



## eengert (Nov 16, 2005)

I think I've figured out how the R15 is handling the buffer. If you notice, when you view a recorded program from MyVOD, you lose the live buffer. I believe the R15 buffers the OUTPUT rather than the tuner input(s) like TIVO does. In other words, it simply buffers whatever signal is being sent to your TV (what you see).

The good news is that if they do in fact add dual live buffer support in a future update, this problem would be inherently fixed. They would have to buffer the tuner inputs if they were going to have dual buffers. In any case, it's on the list of enhancements/fixes in the other thread. This will be a big "gotcha" for many people as they discover this issue for the first time.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

I haven't noticed that, regarding the buffer.

I will have to check it will get home.... That would be a major oversight (IMHO), if going to a GUI interface resets the buffer.

If that is the case, then you are probably correct that it is buffering an output rather then playing it back (a few seconds after it records it, like we know the TIVo does).


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## LockMD (Nov 16, 2005)

eengert said:


> I think I've figured out how the R15 is handling the buffer. If you notice, when you view a recorded program from MyVOD, you lose the live buffer. I believe the R15 buffers the OUTPUT rather than the tuner input(s) like TIVO does. In other words, it simply buffers whatever signal is being sent to your TV (what you see).
> 
> The good news is that if they do in fact add dual live buffer support in a future update, this problem would be inherently fixed. They would have to buffer the tuner inputs if they were going to have dual buffers. In any case, it's on the list of enhancements/fixes in the other thread. This will be a big "gotcha" for many people as they discover this issue for the first time.


Yup, that explains it. Dual LIVE buffer would be a MAJOR improvement.


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## eengert (Nov 16, 2005)

ebonovic said:


> That would be a major oversight (IMHO), if going to a GUI interface resets the buffer.


Well, it's not quite that bad. If by "going to a GUI" you just mean bringing up menu or MyVOD list, that's not the case. That doesn't dump the buffer. The buffer is only dumped (as far as I can tell) when you actually playback a recorded program from MyVOD. Still, a major shortcoming.


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

What do they mean in the manual by that buffer increasing to 4 hours when you pause? I'm at work so I have no manual to quote but I know I read it. Install is tomorrow AM, just trying to absorb all this new jargon.


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## eengert (Nov 16, 2005)

ISWIZ said:


> What do they mean in the manual by that buffer increasing to 4 hours when you pause? I'm at work so I have no manual to quote but I know I read it. Install is tomorrow AM, just trying to absorb all this new jargon.


It means exactly what it says...if you pause a live program, you could theoretically leave it on pause for 4 hours. The buffer is normally 90 mins, but can be increased to 4 hours by pausing a live program.


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

Eric,

From an old Schenectady, NY guy, thanks for the reply. That's interesting, not sure how often I'd use it but hey, if I need to run to town it'll be there when I get back.


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## eengert (Nov 16, 2005)

ISWIZ said:


> Eric,
> 
> From an old Schenectady, NY guy, thanks for the reply. That's interesting, not sure how often I'd use it but hey, if I need to run to town it'll be there when I get back.


Yeah, it's nice to have. Also, I've confirmed through testing that if you're in the middle of a program and decide you would like to record it, it will record everything from the program that's already in the buffer. For example, you're watching Lost live which starts at 9:00. You haven't changed channels at all, so your buffer is in tact, and at 9:30 you have to leave for some reason. Simply press the R button (don't even have to be in the guide) and it will automatically record the entire program beginning from 9:00. Same functionality as TIVO.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

It's useful for the times when you pause something run to do something and get sidetracked by something else and don't make it back before the smaller buffer runs out. I have had it happen MANY times on my Tivo.


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## csigrissum (Nov 16, 2005)

eengert said:


> I think I've figured out how the R15 is handling the buffer. If you notice, when you view a recorded program from MyVOD, you lose the live buffer. I believe the R15 buffers the OUTPUT rather than the tuner input(s) like TIVO does. In other words, it simply buffers whatever signal is being sent to your TV (what you see).
> 
> The good news is that if they do in fact add dual live buffer support in a future update, this problem would be inherently fixed. They would have to buffer the tuner inputs if they were going to have dual buffers. In any case, it's on the list of enhancements/fixes in the other thread. This will be a big "gotcha" for many people as they discover this issue for the first time.


I can't believe that. If you pause a live show- the buffer wouldn't capture the "pause" - it would capture the continuation of the show.
ex. you're watching a 1 hour show and 10 min into it, you pause. another 10 min later you start again- you'll have 10 future minutes in the buffer (even though that portion wasn't sent to your screen)
does that make sense?


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## eengert (Nov 16, 2005)

csigrissum said:


> I can't believe that. If you pause a live show- the buffer wouldn't capture the "pause" - it would capture the continuation of the show.
> ex. you're watching a 1 hour show and 10 min into it, you pause. another 10 min later you start again- you'll have 10 future minutes in the buffer (even though that portion wasn't sent to your screen)
> does that make sense?


That's not quite what I meant. Your example is correct, but it doesn't contradict what I'm saying. The point is that it doesn't buffer the tuner inputs, otherwise you wouldn't lose the buffer when you view a recorded program. It only buffers something that you are actually viewing. The technical facts of how it does this is secondary to the effect. The issue is that it loses the buffer when you view a recorded program and this is bad. So, you can look at as if it, in effect, only buffers what is being output. Agreed?


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

eengert said:


> That's not quite what I meant. Your example is correct, but it doesn't contradict what I'm saying. The point is that it doesn't buffer the tuner inputs, otherwise you wouldn't lose the buffer when you view a recorded program. It only buffers something that you are actually viewing. The technical facts of how it does this is secondary to the effect. The issue is that it loses the buffer when you view a recorded program and this is bad. So, you can look at as if it, in effect, only buffers what is being output. Agreed?


Just another reason to stay with my Dtivos. 60 minutes of buffer on each tuner even if I'm watching a recorded program. Plus, if i happen on a buffer show (I've got two of them that I want to record, and it's less than 60 minutes into the show, I hit RECORD and I get the entire show.


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## eengert (Nov 16, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> Just another reason to stay with my Dtivos. 60 minutes of buffer on each tuner even if I'm watching a recorded program. Plus, if i happen on a buffer show (I've got two of them that I want to record, and it's less than 60 minutes into the show, I hit RECORD and I get the entire show.


Is a 60 min buffer a function of hacking? My R10 only has 30 mins buffers.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

eengert said:


> Is a 60 min buffer a function of hacking? My R10 only has 30 mins buffers.


I don't think so. My HDVR2 and SD-DVR40 had 60 minutes for each tuner under 3.1.1c and also have it after I upgraded to 6.2. But the R10's will only run 6.1. Both my R10's are out "at the shop" right now so I can't check them and I've not used one of them yet to notice the buffer. The HDVR2 and SD_DVR40 are hacked for networking, downloading, HMO and MRV but I don't think the hacks increased the buffer size.


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## csigrissum (Nov 16, 2005)

eengert said:


> That's not quite what I meant. Your example is correct, but it doesn't contradict what I'm saying. The point is that it doesn't buffer the tuner inputs, otherwise you wouldn't lose the buffer when you view a recorded program. It only buffers something that you are actually viewing. The technical facts of how it does this is secondary to the effect. The issue is that it loses the buffer when you view a recorded program and this is bad. So, you can look at as if it, in effect, only buffers what is being output. Agreed?


ok- thanks for the correction.


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## szurlo (Nov 20, 2005)

eengert said:


> I think I've figured out how the R15 is handling the buffer. If you notice, when you view a recorded program from MyVOD, you lose the live buffer.


Yuck. That is a SERIOUS problem. We regularly finish a recorded show, drop back to live TV and discover something is on one of the tuners that we want to watch in it's entirety. With our DTivo we can usually back up to the beginning thanks to the live tuner buffers. It's bad enough that BOTH tuners on the R15 don't get buffered, but only buffering while live TV is being displayed?? Well, that is complete (insert appropriate expletive here).

Of course, as with many of the R15 shortcomings, some folks will say "well, this thing is designed for "John Q Newsubscriber" that doesn't know what he's missing, not the power users that frequent these boards". My argument to that is that the DirecTV - Tivo marriage is essentially over. At some point in the not-too-distant future these "power users" (essentially existing customers) will be pretty much forced to move to the R15 and its successors as their DTivo boxes expire/ become unsupported. They need to make this, and all subsequent products, AT LEAST as good as the products they are for all practical purposes replacing. I don't agree with the people that say this is not a Tivo, so don't expect it to have the same feature set etc, etc. No, this is not a Tivo, but the R15 IS the DirecTV DVR offering that they are replacing the DTivo with. In my mind, that should obligate them to AT LEAST produce a feature comparable product as that replacement.

Sorry for the rant. Just "My .02".


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## Xaa (Nov 17, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> I don't think so. My HDVR2 and SD-DVR40 had 60 minutes for each tuner under 3.1.1c and also have it after I upgraded to 6.2. But the R10's will only run 6.1. Both my R10's are out "at the shop" right now so I can't check them and I've not used one of them yet to notice the buffer. The HDVR2 and SD_DVR40 are hacked for networking, downloading, HMO and MRV but I don't think the hacks increased the buffer size.


You are wrong Wolfpack. It's a 30 minute buffer. When you hit record on a buffered program it adds slightly more than the 30 minutes, but it isn't 60. If you pause it and walk away, it will begin playing in 30 minutes.


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

Looks like a "serious flaw" in Tivo. Only kidding, actually we all use PVR's in different ways much like PC's and that's why there is no "best". If we took all the "key features" that you see in all the forums I'd imagine 25% of them would conflict with what another 25% want. 
I think most folks (and that is who DTV is shooting for) having never used a PVR will find the R15 a wonder. The rest of us will keep hoping that the PVR will begin recording all the shows we want without us ever pressing a button. 
I want one to be reliable. Once you learn what you have and it works that way all the time you can usually find a work around for any shortcomings.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

30 minute buffer is something people have complained about with Tivo for a long time. Not sure what the reason is behind it but oh well. I have only had the 30 min buffer burn me a few times so no great loss to me.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Xaa said:


> You are wrong Wolfpack. It's a 30 minute buffer. When you hit record on a buffered program it adds slightly more than the 30 minutes, but it isn't 60. If you pause it and walk away, it will begin playing in 30 minutes.


You are correct. I never noticed that. I always saw the 1 hour bar at the bottom ad a portion filled with green and never made the connection. Thanks!


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## yunlin12 (Nov 24, 2005)

Here's the first couple lines in Tivo's Time Warp patent:

"A multimedia time warping system. The invention allows the user to store selected television broadcast programs while the user is simultaneously watching or reviewing another program."

If the R15 dumps the live TV buffer when the user switches to another program, then technically they are not violating the patent.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

yunlin12 said:


> Here's the first couple lines in Tivo's Time Warp patent:
> 
> "A multimedia time warping system. The invention allows the user to store selected television broadcast programs while the user is simultaneously watching or reviewing another program."
> 
> If the R15 dumps the live TV buffer when the user switches to another program, then technically they are not violating the patent.


Wow, didn't know that ws under patent. Maybe the DTV decision to dump Tivo will kill them. That was important as a Tivo user as I'm sure the other patents will also effect the function level.


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