# Give DTV a First Quarter Report Card



## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

As promised, a day early, I have set up a "poll" for a report card for Direct TV to see how it's doing on it's R15 DVR. I did not include (-) and (+) and it isn't graded on a curve. Hopefully in 3 more months we can give them a "mid-term" grade to let them know if they've "improved". If I can get the poll to work they should be as follows:

A - Above average, the best, I wish I had invented it.
B - Better than most, a little hiccup here and there.
C - Could be improved, has some minor difficulties.
D - Did not impress me, too many problems.
E - Even if they gave it away, I’m not sure I’d take it.
F - Foolishly released way before it was ready, a complete disaster.


Polls close in 7 days.


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## zortapa (Nov 16, 2005)

My only real problem with the R15 has been the recent incapacitation of my autorecords by D* changing their stream content in an attempt to put a bandage on another problem. Other than that, D* seems to have addressed my concern about partial recordings, and the occasional freeze has not really bothered me....yet. The SL's are adequate for me, since the first run/repeat issue does not impact my recording preferences.

Overall, it is acceptable to me (C/B), but I have never had a DTivo either!.


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## ejohnson (Jan 4, 2006)

I have been fortunate to not have all the problems that some of you have. There are things that could be improved (to my taste), but it has done what it is supposed to do.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

I agree with Zortapa, partial recordings is a really big issue and on top of that the history doesn't give you an info on why. The freezes weren't a big issue for me untill the released 109f and 10a3 and now that I've got to reboot them almost everyday it is really bothering me. Still seems to me like the issues with the 50/100 limit is what is holding this thing back and I don't think we (users with 20 SL or more) will see an improvement untill the get this issue corrected. It just seems that once the guide data is refilled after a reset, that is when the freezing occurs which means your todo list is now mostly full and probably some cause of the lockups.


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## morgantown (Nov 16, 2005)

Dual buffers. Something better than the jumpback key to compensate for very little overshoot correction for FF. Of course, a much more stable S/L.

The auto save for a buffer that gotten quite lenghty is neat, just wish there was a "no don't save it -- but let my still watch the 90 minute buffer" option. The all or nothing with the buffer needs some work. The buffer should not disappear just because you go into a couple of menus (and again, there should be two).


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

I gave it a "C", should be a "C -" because I am very impressed with all the features is has that the DirecTiVo's dont BUT it is buggy.


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

Bobman said:


> I gave it a "C", should be a "C -" because I am very impressed with all the features is has that the DirecTiVo's dont BUT it is buggy.


Look's like that's about where it's falling so far.


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

I think nobody is voting "E" because it's pretty much what DirecTV did, and those of us who didn't take them up on the free DVR don't feel right actually voting about it's performance.


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## morgantown (Nov 16, 2005)

50% "D" or "F" that is indeed a statement. Only 13% "A" or "B."

El Segundo, we have a problem...


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## mccskey (Mar 1, 2006)

Can someone clarify what the R15 has that the Directv Tivo units don't?

A couple of features that Tivo has:
ability to record programs (fairly reliable)
dual live buffers (ability to switch between tuners)
30 second skip
saved searches
actually only record the first run of new episodes

R15
Can check my local weather (don't we all get the weather channel?)
Check local lottery numbers

I'm not impressed with the R15at all at this stage of the game....


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## morgantown (Nov 16, 2005)

It does have the longer buffer (mooted by lack of dual ones).
Interactive channels & Caller ID
Picture in picture guide (like the old non DVR receivers)
HD space monitor

The one thing that really does matter: This is DTV's platform for the future and will be enhanced in time. My R15 is inactive since it surely is not ready for service, yet. I'll keep my DirecTiVos for quite some time, but the R15 is the future with DTV -- like it or not.


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## gvaughn (Dec 5, 2005)

I voted D, but it's really more like a C-.

I really like some of the ideas and organization of the R15 (small PIP screen when searching the guide, etc...).

*But* the R15 has MAJOR scheduling problems. Since ultimately it's "reason for being" is as a recorder first and foremost, I think these problems are truly significant and "upsetting". The buffer options are the second "reason for being" and they have problems too...


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

mccskey said:


> Can someone clarify what the R15 has that the Directv Tivo units don't?


Lets see,

Picture and sound in all the menus and screens so you dont have to sit there in silence like DirecTiVos.

Ability to watch a recorded show and still do other things like browse the guide or do some housecleaning. Tivo you cant do anything when watching a recording.

One line guide to use so it doesnt block the TV picture.

Free space % indicator.

Much longer buffers.

A guide that actually works and is not clunky and redraws line by line or in blocks, In the guide you can tell at a glance what shows are scheduled to record unlike DirecTivos, also simply press record in the guide and the show will record or a SL will be made.

Interactive channels (News Mix, Sports Mix, etc...) and features for sports like NFL, NBA, Olympics, etc...

Caller ID on screen,

Conflict select screens where it allows you to choose from ALL conflicts not just 1 like DirecTiVos (a GREAT advantage of the R-15 if you ask me),

Active features with Best Bests PPV shows, lottery, weather, horoscope, daily TV highlights and more.

I can go on and on...................


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## morgantown (Nov 16, 2005)

Bobman said:


> I can go on and on...................


Please do. Did you say buffers?


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

morgantown said:


> Did you say buffers?


I didnt say they worked :lol: but from what I remember, and maybe I am mistaken, all the tech specs say dual buffers.

I know your not a big fan of the R-15 and your big on the buffer thing but the R-15 will be a nice unit after the next upgrade or two.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

I voted C, but like others I feel C is a little too good with D being a little too bad. The R15 falls between. I feel like it "Could be improved, has some *significant* issues."

The R15 does impress me, and I do prefer the user interface, guide, and other features over the TiVo (R10). However the problems are certainly more than "minor".

Carl


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## morgantown (Nov 16, 2005)

Bobman said:


> I didnt say they worked :lol: but from what I remember, and maybe I am mistaken, all the tech specs say dual buffers.
> 
> I know your not a big fan of the R-15 and your big on the buffer thing but the R-15 will be a nice unit after the next upgrade or two.


I'm not a big fan of the R15 in its current form. But, I fully accept that this is the platform for the future -- that's why I got one  .

Just trying to keep the discussion realistic, that is all . I stay away from the well documented S/L problems since it is discussed ad nauseum here. As far as the comments on the slow guides, the TiVo style guide is blazing fast -- the grid guide is rarely used by most (as I'm sure you already know).

Nonetheless, I too hope the units scores will increase significantly after an upgrade or two.


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

morgantown said:


> the grid guide is rarely used by most (as I'm sure you already know)


I have been around for many years in the tivocommunity and telling people when they complain about how unusable clunky and slow the guide is to switch to the TiVo guide "is the norm". Its not because the guide is better, its because the other guide is next to unusable.


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

No, it's not used because it's designed to find out what's on "now". Who cares about that with a DVR. The TiVo-style guide is designed to find stuff to record. 

I can page through the next 12 days or so of guide data for a given channel in about 30 seconds. Try that with a grid.


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

walters said:


> Who cares about that with a DVR


Probably 99% of the people using one and I for one. I use the normal guide every night to look at whats on Primetime at 8 and 9 pm. Its so much faster to check whats on ALL channels at that time, using that. Try that with the TiVo style guide. I think you think everyone uses their DVR's like power users, most just use it like a fancy VCR.


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## gvaughn (Dec 5, 2005)

Bobman said:


> Lets see,
> 
> Picture and sound in all the menus and screens so you dont have to sit there in silence like DirecTiVos.
> 
> ...


Reminds us why we, at least some of us, got the R15 in the first place!!! There's a lot of good options/features with the R15. Here's hoping it will eventually be able to do these things in a very stable, and bug free, manner!!


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

Bobman said:


> Probably 99% of the people using one


I'm sure that I could find real stats, not made-up ones, to completely disprove that if I cared enough to.


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

gvaughn said:


> Reminds us why we, at least some of us, got the R15 in the first place!!! There's a lot of good options/features with the R15.


Very true. Its offers so much more than the DirecTiVos as you can see and once the bugs get worked out it will be a sweet unit.


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

I created a topic in the DirecTiVo section to discuss the pros/cons and give opinons on the guide issue.


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

walters said:


> I think nobody is voting "E" because it's pretty much what DirecTV did, and those of us who didn't take them up on the free DVR don't feel right actually voting about it's performance.


My first thought was, "I know some have said they sent it back even though they got it for free (with the rebate)". So then when I read your response and see the grades now I'm like, well where are they.

Well duh, they probably don't even come in here anymore if they no longer have one:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## morgantown (Nov 16, 2005)

ISWIZ said:


> My first thought was, "I know some have said they sent it back even though they got it for free (with the rebate)". So then when I read your response and see the grades now I'm like, well where are they.
> 
> Well duh, they probably don't even come in here anymore if they no longer have one:lol: :lol: :lol:


Probably true. I kept mine and still stop by in hopes that the kinks will be worked out so I can activate it again and actually get some good use from it.

I must say though, for all the complaints I read from some posters it is remarkable how much they defend the R15 in one post and then slam it in another. Weird.

The R15 is the future of DVR's with DTV and for that reason alone I'm keenly interested in its development...and hope nothing but the best for it/us.


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## ghost (Jan 31, 2006)

I must just be lucky. I have had the R 15 lock up and freeze exactly three times since getting it 04 February. Since the software upgrade I have had nothing but pleasure from it. I'm very happy.


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## zortapa (Nov 16, 2005)

morgantown said:


> I must say though, for all the complaints I read from some posters it is remarkable how much they defend the R15 in one post and then slam it in another. Weird.


I might be one of these wierd folks. While 95% of my posts strongly support the R15, the other 5% come immediately after a long, usually unsuccessful, battle with it!


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## Bud33 (Jan 26, 2006)

I voted "C" but I guess I could have Voted "A" since this is my first DR of any kind, I seem to have few problems.
I've read so many complaints I wonder what I am doing wrong. Then I think, Those who don't have problems probably don't write in these forms.


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## siquepupi (Jan 15, 2006)

F - I am one of those who went back to the R10s. 
I will be checking back from time to time for the input trying to see when the majority of the bugs have been addressed. Most of my complaints are the same ones being metioned over & over so I wont repeat those, but one that is particularly annoying that I dont see dicussed much is the constant rerecording of the same repeated episodes. I really like the fact that I can put shows from comedy central which repeat a dozen times a week. on a low priority season pass and not worry about missing an episode due to conflicts. when I do this with the R15 I get all of the repeats & no show description to let me know when it is a different episode. I then wind up spending 20 minutes deleting.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

zortapa said:


> I might be one of these wierd folks. While 95% of my posts strongly support the R15, the other 5% come immediately after a long, usually unsuccessful, battle with it!


I'm in the same boat as you, it's that 5% when I need to vent and to ponder why it's doing what it's doing. I still love it and think it will get there I just don't know how long that is going to take. And as long as they keep reading/listening to this forum and fix/improve what is wrong/not there, then we should have a wonderful unit.


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## mccskey (Mar 1, 2006)

Bobman said:


> Lets see,
> 
> Picture and sound in all the menus and screens so you dont have to sit there in silence like DirecTiVos.
> 
> ...


Bobman,
I think we are the same page. We can play tennis all day long about the feature deltas between the units. I think it is somewhat unfair to compare since DTV has basically put the brakes on with TIVO. I could go on and on about how good the DTV tivo box could be with HMO, MRV, Tivotogo, mature platform, reliabilty etc.... 
I understand DTV is weening customers off tivo to their new R15 platform, but it seems to be unfair to expect existing customers to take a R15 that doesn't do the basics very well or reliable yet...

Here are my responses...
1) Your first 2 points are the same thing... It is nice to have a small video picture while you are setting up recordings, doing other maintenance etc, or viewing a recording... If I'm going to be setting up or doing maintenance on the box I really don't care if I can see the video. If its that important to see video just press pause. How long does one need to spend in the menu... Last I checked, I'd rather watch a show than be playing in the menu tree...
2) The one line guide... Plus for the R15 except for the fact that do I press the red or is it the blue or is it the yellow button or green button to toggle 12hrs in eiter directions...
3) Free space indicator...This is a nice to have feature, but is not impearative.
4)Much longer buffers??? They don't work. You will need to go on and on with this benefit.
5)Guides- Last I check if I press the guide button on Tivo I get to the guide. The R15 takes me to a filtering menu, every single time. Guides are personal preferences, I prefer the Tivo guide over the grid.
6)Interactive & Active, DTV boxes have had this ability for quite some time. The issue here is that DTV is no longer supporting or no longer providing Tivo upgrades. How about playing your Mp3's or photos on your unit. If DTV would only give the keys to our tivo boxes....:nono2: 
7)Thank god I have caller Id on my phone, cause it doesn't work on my R15.
8)Conflict screens, I have yet to have this issue, so I have no comment


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## morgantown (Nov 16, 2005)

zortapa said:


> I might be one of these wierd folks. While 95% of my posts strongly support the R15, the other 5% come immediately after a long, usually unsuccessful, battle with it!


Hey zortapa,

I'm really not refering to any individuals here as weird -- just the posting behavior (if that makes any sense). Sometimes it "seems" as if there is a zealous need to defend the short-comings of the R15, and then complain how they don't work in two different threads at the same time.

I definately understand where you are coming from though .


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

morgantown said:


> Hey zortapa,
> 
> I'm really not refering to any individuals here as weird -- just the posting behavior (if that makes any sense). Sometimes it "seems" as if there is a zealous need to defend the short-comings of the R15, and then complain how they don't work in two different threads at the same time.
> 
> I definately understand where you are coming from though .


Just because someone likes a product and defends it doesn't always mean they think it's perfect or actually is perfect. Some people defend TiVo to no end but it still doesn't mean it's perfect. It may be better in current form then the R15 but it still has it's fair share of problems.


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

morgantown said:


> Please do.


Ability to directly record XM channels, no backdoor.

Download PPV's to watch later without paying and if you dont watch you dont pay.

Way more sort options in the VOD (Now playing List)

Able to see the program descritions in the VOD without clicking on the program.

Manual recording can be done in1 minute increments not 5 like DirecTiVos.

Cool blue whirling swirling light on the box. :hurah:

FF and RR at 4x is much faster.

Main menu is small overlay not a full screen so you can still watch TV when looking for options not sit in silence.

Two favorite channels lists not one like DirecTiVo.

Stores previous channels viewed for quick recall

A lot more Parental Control options.


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

I am only listing the features the R-15 has that the DirecTivo's dont like a poster asked about. Its called answering a users question and helping out. Its a few obvious DirecTiVo lovers that turned this into a tit for tat game.

Not once did I say it works better than the DirecTiVos as in its present state it doesnt and thats rather obvious and doesnt need to be stated in every post here. However it DOES have many many features the DirecTiVos dont and I know its burning up a few people here to have to hear them. 

These are features in the product NOW not maybes or should haves. If someone doesnt like one of the featues great but its still a feature the R-15 has the DirecTiVos dont and an answer to someones question.

It is NOT to argue and debate the R-15 vs. the DirecTivo as this is not the place for it. I NEVER would have listed these things if not asked by a user about what features the R-15 has that the DirecTivo's dont.


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

mccskey said:


> Here are my responses...


Sorry, but we are talking what features they DO have not woulda coulda shoulda have and maybe if's ?

If you dont like a feature the R-15 has that the DirecTivos dont, fine, great and thats your preference, but its still a "feature" the R-15 has that the DirecTivos dont and why its in my answer to the original posters question.

There is a DirecTiVo forum here and post all you want about the benefits of the DirecTivo there.


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

Bobman said:


> Sorry, but we are talking what features they DO have not woulda coulda shoulda have and maybe if's ?
> 
> If you dont like a feature the R-15 has that the DirecTivos dont, fine, great and thats your preference, but its still a "feature" the R-15 has that the DirecTivos dont and why its in my answer to the original posters question.
> 
> There is a DirecTiVo forum here and post all you want about the benefits of the DirecTivo there.


Actually as I (maybe only me) take exception to running anyone off this forum as long as they are respectful of others. Even Tivo fanatics (of which I also am, but within reason) have things to add to the discussion.

The reason I bring this up is because I very much disliked the way the TCF running off any disussion of the R15. I know, it was their dime, just not cool, and I always thought Tivo was cool. Another myth shattered.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Bobman said:


> There is a DirecTiVo forum here and post all you want about the benefits of the DirecTivo there.


If one wants spend the time comparing features of the R15 and DTivo it is a little tough to do in two different threads under two different forums.

Bobman you are breaking your own rule stated above even by listing features of the R15 that the DTivo lacks as you're referring to the DTivo.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

Ya we don't need to be like TCF and ban talk of another DVR here. Honestly I barely ever post anymore over there because of that stance. I still have my TiVos and still think they are great but I will just save my comments and insight for somewhere that i'm open to talk about a competing product.


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

Kanyon71 said:


> Ya we don't need to be like TCF and ban talk of another DVR here. Honestly I barely ever post anymore over there because of that stance. I still have my TiVos and still think they are great but I will just save my comments and insight for somewhere that i'm open to talk about a competing product.


:icon_peac Amen!


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## ejohnson (Jan 4, 2006)

Bobman said:


> Stores previous channels viewed for quick recall


I am curious what you mean by this, since you said "channels" (plural)

Thanks


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## morgantown (Nov 16, 2005)

ejohnson said:


> I am curious what you mean by this, since you said "channels" (plural)
> 
> Thanks


On the menu it lists previous channels. Select the previous channel button/bar and a drop down shows the last channels you have looked at. You can move through the list and select anyone and it will take you there.


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

Just a reminder:

This poll will close on 03-07-06 at 05:36 PM


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

I just want to say that everyone can look back BEFORE my posts that a user  "had asked a question" about "what features the R-15 has that the DirecTiVos dont". I meant go to the DirecTivo forum HERE so maybe the activity would pick up some. Remember this forum was recently created for R-15 discussion, if all DVR talk was allowed then there is no sense in having separate forums.

I simply answered that question or that was my intention. FINALLY something good to say about the R-15 and instead of adding features to my list or maybe finding something I said that others might not have noticed before I see nothing.

This might have turned into the first positive R-15 thread in a loooooonnnnggggg time and everyone knows we need some good things to say.


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## zortapa (Nov 16, 2005)

Bobman, I saw the question that was posted and I appreciated reading your responses. No explanation required!


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

85% with a "C" or less with one more day to go. Come on all you "A's" and "B's" let's hear from you:listenup:


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## DTivoFan (Jul 30, 2005)

Current poll numbers:

A 2 2.56%
B 9 11.54%
C 25 32.05%
D 22 28.21%
E 0 0.00%
F 20 25.64%

This means a majority (53.85%) give it a D or below.

If the R15 were a college student, its GPA would be 1.37.


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## Curtis52 (Oct 14, 2003)

First quarter report card?

The first quarter is only 2/3 finished.


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## morgantown (Nov 16, 2005)

Curtis52 said:


> First quarter report card?
> 
> The first quarter is only 2/3 finished.


True, but the R15 was released prior to 1/06 so this is really a little more than a quarter of service.


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

morgantown said:


> True, but the R15 was released prior to 1/06 so this is really a little more than a quarter of service.


Actually mid November, so I figure Dec/Jan/ Feb for first 3 months. Sorry for the confusion


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## morgantown (Nov 16, 2005)

ISWIZ said:


> Actually mid November, so I figure Dec/Jan/ Feb for first 3 months. Sorry for the confusion


No confusion here , its been more than a quarter and quite a sufficient time to make an evaluation.


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

A - Above average, the best, I wish I had invented it. 2 2.17% 
B - Better than most, a little hiccup here and there. 10 10.87% 
C - Could be improved, has some minor difficulties. 30 32.61% 
D - Did not impress me, too many problems. 26 28.26% 
E - Even if they gave it away, I’m not sure I’d take it. 1 1.09% 
F - Foolishly released way before it was ready, a complete disaster. 23 25.00% 
Voters: 92. This poll is closed 

Earl,

I hope those contacts at DTV are paying attention to what this group thinks. Come June 1st we'll find out I guess. Surely by then they can make a passing grade:nono2:


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

ISWIZ said:


> A - Above average, the best, I wish I had invented it. 2 2.17%
> B - Better than most, a little hiccup here and there. 10 10.87%
> C - Could be improved, has some minor difficulties. 30 32.61%
> D - Did not impress me, too many problems. 26 28.26%
> ...


Provided that option "F" will change, since "technically"... if you voted that way today, nothing they do for the next there months will change that...



I too hope, and I am fairly confident, that three months from now... things will be much brighter.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I too hope, and I am fairly confident, that three months from now... things will be much brighter.


Oh man, let's hope so.


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

Thanks to all who took the time. I'm already working on a new set of "ABC's".:icon_band


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