# Echostar 11 - 1:21am ET July 16th Launch / August 26th LIVE Discussion



## spear61

Galaxy 18 launched sucessfully this morning from the Sea Launch platform. Good news for Echostar 11 which is next up on the launch schedule


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## EXTACAMO

spear61 said:


> Galaxy 18 launched sucessfully this morning from the Sea Launch platform. Good news for Echostar 11 which is next up on the launch schedule


Everybody cross your fingers, toes and rub your good luck charmes and pray to your god that this bird get's off into the correct orbit.


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## g182237

I pray this bird gets off the ground and operating properly. It is the only way people in HI/AK will get more HD channels. We still only get 8 while the rest of the country has a whole lot more. If it explodes, I may end up switching to Direct TV. Does anyone know when it is scheduled to launch?


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## normang

Without having to run around, what is Galaxy 18 going to do? What is the scheduled launch date of E11.


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## spear61

Turn around has been something like 6 weeks to 2 months so it will probably launch in July


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## yihaa75

Yes it seems its July.

hxxp://msdb.honeywell-tsi.com/launches.asp


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## HobbyTalk

PALO ALTO, Calif., May 28, 2008 (PRIME NEWSWIRE) -- Space Systems/Loral (SS/L), a subsidiary of Loral Space & Communications (Nasdaq:LORL) and the world's leading provider of high-power commercial satellites, today announced that it delivered EchoStar XI to the Sea Launch home port in Long Beach, Calif. on Tuesday, May 27.

http://www.redorbit.com/news/space/...elivers_echostar_xi_satellite_to_launch_base/


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## DishDevo

But no one was home, and the FedEx guy took it back to the garage. They can pick it up after 6pm.


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## jefbal99

DishDevo said:


> But no one was home, and the FedEx guy took it back to the garage. They can pick it up after 6pm.


Nope, past 3 days from the first delivery attempt. Its been returned to the sender


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## Richard King

The FedEx guy is trying his hardest to figure out what all the parts that fell out of the box are for.


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## RasputinAXP

Richard King said:


> The FedEx guy is trying his hardest to figure out what all the parts that fell out of the box are for.


Only because the loader dropkicked it onto the truck...


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## normang

It was return to sender, address unknown....


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## Henry

Alright, you jokers. You _forced_ me to read the link.


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## Blowgun

...with postage due.


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## Mavrick

FedEx delivered to wrong address and so far have been unable to find so that it can be retrieved


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## spear61

Getting Closer!

http://www.sea-launch.com/current_launch.htm


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## PRIME1

Prepare the slingshot!!


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## harsh

My best information still indicates that a launch is at least 1 month away.


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## James Long

spear61 said:


> Getting Closer!
> 
> http://www.sea-launch.com/current_launch.htm


That is a nice sight!






Finally on deck!


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## Richard King

Nice merged logos. Who would have thunk back in 1996 when the put Echostar I into service that they would be working on Echostar XI now?


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## Stephen J

What sort of an impact with E11 have on national HD? Will the national HD that is currently on the wings be moved to E11, so that the wings can be use solely for HD LiLs? It seems that with AMC 14s failure, and the age and weak signal levels from E3 that they need to do something for the national HDs


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## BattleZone

E11 will have NO *direct* impact on anything, other than higher signal strengths in fringe areas, especially Alaska & Hawaii. It is going to 110 as a replacement satellite, and 110 has all transponders in use already.

But... it will be freeing up at least one existing, older satellite, which is supposed to be moved to 77 as part of the "Eastern Arc." Exactly what will be where, from a channel perspective, is still unknown.


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## James Long

The higher power may allow additional channels per transponder ... so a couple of new national HD channels could show up at 110° ... but not a lot.

It will help customers in AK, HI and PR as they will be able to get more HD from 110° ... the new ConUS signals will be about as strong as the spotbeams from 110°. The channels in the AK/HI spotbeam package that are on 110° ConUS won't need to be uplinked twice ... opening room for a few of the 129°/61.5° channels not currently available.

But nationally, not a big hit.


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## EVAC41

Just went to the sea-launch page and it looks like they are preparing to launch the Echostar 11 satellite. As the current update it has arrived at the sea-launch homeport.

Here is the link:
http://www.sea-launch.com/current_launch.htm


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## bartendress

EVAC41 said:


> Just went to the sea-launch page and it looks like they are preparing to launch the Echostar 11 satellite. As the current update it has arrived at the sea-launch homeport.
> 
> Here is the link:
> http://www.sea-launch.com/current_launch.htm


Golly! Thanks for the breaking news alert.


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## Mikey

EVAC41 said:


> Just went to the sea-launch page and it looks like they are preparing to launch the Echostar 11 satellite. As the current update it has arrived at the sea-launch homeport.
> ...


It's been there since May 27th.
http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1620647&postcount=7


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## space86

When Echostar 11 is broadcasting new channels will we need a new Satellite Dish
and receiver ?


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## simulated

space86 said:


> When Echostar 11 is broadcasting new channels will we need a new Satellite Dish
> and receiver ?


no, it's a *mirror* replacement for echostar 8, operating in the 12.2-12.74ghz range, you shouldn't notice a difference, well apart from stronger signal strength, when echo11 goes online.


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## P Smith

When it will be placed in that position. Check where is AMC-14 now.


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## g182237

I cannot wait for this sat. to be launched. I'm so sick of the same 8 HD channels in HI. while the rest of the nation has received well over 40 HD channels. I just hope the thing doesn't blow up or the Navy doesn't shoot it down by accident. That would be my luck.


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## simulated

P Smith said:


> When it will be placed in that position. Check where is AMC-14 now.


two different launch vehicles/systems. Sea Launch did a fine job getting galaxy 18 and d11 to where they had to go, where proton/breeze m failed with amc14, you think Sea Launch will fail with echo11?


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## VBToad

James Long said:


> The higher power may allow additional channels per transponder ... so a couple of new national HD channels could show up at 110° ... but not a lot.
> 
> It will help customers in AK, HI and PR as they will be able to get more HD from 110° ... the new ConUS signals will be about as strong as the spotbeams from 110°. The channels in the AK/HI spotbeam package that are on 110° ConUS won't need to be uplinked twice ... opening room for a few of the 129°/61.5° channels not currently available.
> 
> But nationally, not a big hit.


James, would the upcoming mpeg2 to mpeg4 conversion make anymore room on 110?


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## jpeckinp

> James, would the upcoming mpeg2 to mpeg4 conversion make anymore room on 110?


I know I'm not James but if I understand correctly the switch to mpeg-4 is still a long way away. So for the time being no 110 won't gain any room because everything SD will be staying mpeg-2. Now after the transition I believe they should be able to add almost double the current SD. Now if they have new compression codecs between now and then that number could get better, who knows?


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## James Long

VBToad said:


> James, would the upcoming mpeg2 to mpeg4 conversion make anymore room on 110?


When the final MPEG2 HD channels move to MPEG4 it will open up a little more space ... that should be coming very soon. DISH needs to convert the people still subscribing to the $9.99 MPEG2 HDPack from 2006. They are in the process of offering deals and getting people over to MPEG4 receivers now.

Regular SD channels won't be going to MPEG4 soon ... the 110° 119° service will remain MPEG2 for the time being.


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## BattleZone

James Long said:


> Regular SD channels won't be going to MPEG4 soon ... the 110° 119° service will remain MPEG2 for the time being.


Changing the SD service to MPEG4 would require Dish to change out, oh, 30 million MPEG2 receivers, many of them being customer-owned. It's going to be a while before that's feasable. And, the longer Dish waits, the more customers are going to do their own PAID upgrade (from SD to HD receiver), reducing the amount of money that Dish will eventually have to spend to upgrade the remaining receivers.


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## James Long

Agreed. I expect there will be an intermediate step ... moving to MPEG2/8PSK which several of the most recent MPEG2 receivers can handle 8PSK. This would convert off the oldest receivers first (the MPEG2/QPSK only ones). But it is going to take a couple of years.

One "voluntary" way of getting people to change are the planned Eastern and Western services that will be MPEG4 only. When people do their "paid" upgrade to HD and new customers join they will simply get MPEG4 equipment and service. Many may pay their own way to convert just to reduce their number of dishes. The more people DISH can get to convert on their own for other reasons the better (other reasons than "your MPEG2 SD equipment will stop working on xx/xx/xx").


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## peak_reception

Shouldn't this discussion be re-named the "EchoStar 11 Pre-Launch Mostly Speculation" thread?


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## EDWIN MAESTRE

James Long said:


> The higher power may allow additional channels per transponder ... so a couple of new national HD channels could show up at 110° ... but not a lot.
> 
> It will help customers in AK, HI and PR as they will be able to get more HD from 110° ... the new ConUS signals will be about as strong as the spotbeams from 110°. The channels in the AK/HI spotbeam package that are on 110° ConUS won't need to be uplinked twice ... opening room for a few of the 129°/61.5° channels not currently available.
> 
> But nationally, not a big hit.


But what concerns me is the picture quality when so many channels are put on a single transponder. I really hope the this launch will give us sharper and cleaner images, especially when some of us have spent thousands in equipment. :nono:


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## HobbyTalk

It is doubtful the pictures will be any shaper or clearer. If you want sharper/clearer use OTA antenna and BD.


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## James Long

yihaa75 said:


> Yes it seems its July.
> 
> http://msdb.honeywell-tsi.com/launches.asp


Now listed as July 17th!
http://www.skyrocket.de/space/doc_chr/lau2008.htm#Planned


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## space86

SOON is now July 17th LOL


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## spear61

Progress Update

http://www.sea-launch.com/mission_EchoStarXI/payload_transfer/payload_transfer.html


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## greg47

IIP said:


> E11 will have NO *direct* impact on anything, other than higher signal strengths in fringe areas, especially Alaska & Hawaii. It is going to 110 as a replacement satellite, and 110 has all transponders in use already.
> 
> But... it will be freeing up at least one existing, older satellite, which is supposed to be moved to 77 as part of the "Eastern Arc." Exactly what will be where, from a channel perspective, is still unknown.


Echo 11 will replace Echo 8 @ 110 west and is conus. Echo 8 has had transponder and signal strength issues since launch. I would expect quite a few of the national channels to move to Echo 11. Everyone should see improved quality and signal strength. Dish had to ask the FCC for permission to include a video camera on board Echo 11 for space views of the earth from 22,300 miles out. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out. Charlie does have a pretty bad record getting satellites into orbit in good working condition. Everyone keep their fingers crossed on this launch.


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## g182237

Another step closer...

http://www.sea-launch.com/mission_Ec..._transfer.html


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## Richard King

Bad link


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## P Smith

http://www.sea-launch.com/current_launch.htm


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## spear61

11 days transit time from dock departure date and 3 days more to set up the launch - 14 days total. Weather is stirring up off Mexico but still looks ok futher west and south.


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## Richard King

I sure hope that UPS gets it there safely.


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## rocatman

Updat from Sea Launch. The launch platform has left port.

http://www.sea-launch.com/mission_EchoStarXI/lp_depart/lp_depart.html


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## James Long

T- 15 (days) and counting ... Smooth sailing (please).


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## rocatman

James Long said:


> T- 15 (days) and counting ... Smooth sailing (please).


Looks like the launch date has been moved up to July 16th although it might be just a time zone thing.


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## spear61

rocatman said:


> Looks like the launch date has been moved up to July 16th although it might be just a time zone thing.


Launches at 154 so the date looks ok (this side of the date line). 11 days transit and 72 hrs prelaunch prep so 16 looks good.


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## spear61

The web cam is up and running.

http://www.navigon.net/sl/pictures/


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## g182237

Another step closer...

http://www.sea-launch.com/current_launch.htm


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## JohnH

Permission has been granted to move EchoStar 6 to 72.7 West, but no mention of permission to delever programs to the USA from there:

SAT-STA-20080512-00103 E
Grant of Authority Effective Date: 07/02/2008
Special Temporary Authority
EchoStar Corporation
On July 2, 2008, the Satellite Division granted the request of EchoStar Corporation for Special Temporary Authority for a 60-day period.
EchoStar is authorized to conduct telemetry, tracking, and command (TT&C) communications related to the relocation of the EchoStar 6 satellite
from its current orbital position at the 110.4º W.L. orbital location to the 72.7º W.L. orbital location. Effective on the date that the EchoStar 6
satellite reaches the 72.7º W.L. orbital location, the U.S. license for the EchoStar 6 satellite will be terminated.


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## rocatman

JohnH said:


> Permission has been granted to move EchoStar 6 to 72.7 West, but no mention of permission to delever programs to the USA from there:
> 
> SAT-STA-20080512-00103 E
> Grant of Authority Effective Date: 07/02/2008
> Special Temporary Authority
> EchoStar Corporation
> On July 2, 2008, the Satellite Division granted the request of EchoStar Corporation for Special Temporary Authority for a 60-day period.
> EchoStar is authorized to conduct telemetry, tracking, and command (TT&C) communications related to the relocation of the EchoStar 6 satellite
> from its current orbital position at the 110.4º W.L. orbital location to the 72.7º W.L. orbital location. Effective on the date that the EchoStar 6
> satellite reaches the 72.7º W.L. orbital location, the U.S. license for the EchoStar 6 satellite will be terminated.


I think I previously posted this here:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=132374

So will Dish start moving E-6 or will they wait until they get FCC permission to deliver porgrams or will they wait until E-11 is on-orbit and testing at 138.5 W ?


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## spear61

rocatman said:


> I think I previously posted this here:
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=132374
> 
> So will Dish start moving E-6 or will they wait until they get FCC permission to deliver porgrams or will they wait until E-11 is on-orbit and testing at 138.5 W ?


Can't wait too long since the 38 degree move will probably take about 30 days and they used up 5 of their 60 days already.


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## rocatman

spear61 said:


> Can't wait too long since the 38 degree move will probably take about 30 days and they used up 5 of their 60 days already.


I think the 30 day estimate is too long. Dish could move E-6 in 10 days if needed, it would just use more satellite propellant. I have to believe Dish will wait until they at least get approval to provide programming to the U.S. from 72.7 W before moving. Dish can always ask for an extension or reapply if the time restriction expires.


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## JohnH

The permission to deliver may come in something as simple as several small receive dishes being approved.


I would think they should wait until EchoStar 11 is on station at 110 West.


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## James Long

Agreed ... the successful launch of E11 is the controlling factor here.
Using E6 at 72.5° is secondary to getting E11 in place.


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## kstuart

rocatman said:


> Looks like the launch date has been moved up to July 16th although it might be just a time zone thing.


I have read elsewhere:

July 15 - 10:21 pm PDT

which is

July 16 - 1:21 am EDT

It's conceivable that the "July 17" date includes a safety factor.

By the way, has anyone calculated the number of additional HD channels that will be possible to add from the increased power of E*11 (which allows fewer FEC bits) ?

Sounds like something that P. Smith might find interesting...


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## rocatman

kstuart said:


> I have read elsewhere:
> 
> July 15 - 10:21 pm PDT
> 
> which is
> 
> July 16 - 1:21 am EDT
> 
> It's conceivable that the "July 17" date includes a safety factor.
> 
> By the way, has anyone calculated the number of additional HD channels that will be possible to add from the increased power of E*11 (which allows fewer FEC bits) ?
> 
> Sounds like something that P. Smith might find interesting...


One thing that should be considered related to E-11 and Forward Error Correction (FEC) is more SD channels per TP. For example if the FEC can be lowered so there is enough useable bandwidth to put 15 SD channels per TP instead of the current 12 then for every 5 TPs used for SD channels, Dish would only need to use 4 TPs.


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## kstuart

rocatman said:


> One thing that should be considered related to E-11 and Forward Error Correction (FEC) is more SD channels per TP. For example if the FEC can be lowered so there is enough useable bandwidth to put 15 SD channels per TP instead of the current 12 then for every 5 TPs used for SD channels, Dish would only need to use 4 TPs.


Yes, that is what I was saying.

In your fictional example, there would be a net gain of one transponder, which would allow 7 more HD channels to be added.

I speak in terms of HD channels, because I don't think there are any SD channels that have not been added to Dish Network because of bandwidth concerns.


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## James Long

kstuart said:


> I speak in terms of HD channels, because I don't think there are any SD channels that have not been added to Dish Network because of bandwidth concerns.


If the SDs can be put 15 per TP (instead of 12) and free up a couple of transponders they would likely be used for HD.


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## g182237

kstuart said:


> I have read elsewhere:
> 
> July 15 - 10:21 pm PDT
> 
> which is
> 
> July 16 - 1:21 am EDT
> 
> It's conceivable that the "July 17" date includes a safety factor.
> 
> By the way, has anyone calculated the number of additional HD channels that will be possible to add from the increased power of E*11 (which allows fewer FEC bits) ?
> 
> Sounds like something that P. Smith might find interesting...


If/when they do add more HD channels to E11, they had better offer all the same channels to HI. as they do to the CONUS or else I'm switching to Direct


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## kstuart

James Long said:


> If the SDs can be put 15 per TP (instead of 12) and free up a couple of transponders they would likely be used for HD.


Yes, that is exactly what I was saying.

( I'm not picking the right words today )


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## HDRoberts

kstuart said:


> Yes, that is what I was saying.
> 
> In your fictional example, there would be a net gain of one transponder, which would allow 7 more HD channels to be added.
> 
> I speak in terms of HD channels, because I don't think there are any SD channels that have not been added to Dish Network because of bandwidth concerns.


Add to that the space from the MPEG4 transition and the Voom transponders at 61.5 and 129, and Dish should have plenty of space for another aggressive national HD expansion.


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## JohnH

It is possible that no FEC change will happen on the QPSK muxes. The additional power may just allow the current 5/6 to work very well.

There are a couple of Spotbeams at 61.5 which may be testing the 5/6 8PSK scenario in a real life situation.


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## kstuart

JohnH said:


> It is possible that no FEC change will happen on the QPSK muxes. The additional power may just allow the current 5/6 to work very well.


So by "work very well", you mean "increase the amount of signal strength degradation that can be accepted while still producing a good quality picture" ?


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## JohnH

Yep, people on the fringe would appreciate a better lock margin. If they reduce the FEC margin, folks may not see any improvement.


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## P Smith

So, what's going on with *the satellite *?


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## spear61

P Smith said:


> So, what's going on with *the satellite *?


Sea Launch has set a firm date; July 15 10:21 PM Pacific time. So those on the west coast can watch and go to bed relatively early.

http://www.sea-launch.com/current_launch.htm


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## P Smith

How high I should go up riding hot air balloon to see the launch from West Coast (SF) ?


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## phrelin

I didn't see this linked in any of the above posts, but I found the story Sea Launch follows a unique but successful path to space informative and interesting.


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## P Smith

Yes, thanks for the link. We speculated before many things what was reveal in the article.


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## Mr. Vega

thanks for the link to the article. good read.

there is also an episode for SeaLaunch on National Geographics Megastructures that is pretty informative. those of you who havent seen it, its worth a watch.


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## jclewter79

so will this launch be aired on ch. 101 or something. If so when do I need to set the dvr timer?


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## JohnH

jclewter79 said:


> so will this launch be aired on ch. 101 or something. If so when do I need to set the dvr timer?


It is in the EPG already at 12:30 AM EDT Wednesday.


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## HobbyTalk

Nevermind


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## Richard King

Why isn't it in HD????


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## JohnH

Pictures from SeaLaunch Commander make 350K IPTV look great.


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## spear61

A beautiful sight. --- sitting on the launch pad.

http://www.navigon.net/sl/pictures/


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## Spoonser

FYI, it's showing up in my EPG at 1:00am (I assume they moved it). 

I was able to find it using keyword search "launch". Nothing else showed up when I used that keyword


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## James Long

Hmm ... last night I set a DVR event for it at 12:30am tonight. Glad I have "name based recording"


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## rocatman

There appears to be some rumors from another site that there are some communication problems with the launch vehicle. Nothing confirmed yet. If I see something else I will post.


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## jclewter79

JohnH said:


> It is in the EPG already at 12:30 AM EDT Wednesday.


Thank you I have my timer set and +1 James on the name based recording.


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## darrencp22

rocatman said:


> There appears to be some rumors from another site that there are some communication problems with the launch vehicle. Nothing confirmed yet. If I see something else I will post.


Can you please provide source?


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## space86

I hope Echostar 11 does not have a near miss with AMC 14 LOL !:lol:


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## kal915

space86 said:


> I hope Echostar 11 does not have a near miss with AMC 14 LOL !:lol:


me neither:grin:


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## Schizm

Is Trisha Takanawa narrating this launch? :lol:


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## James Long

Looks like a good launch ... Spacecraft Acquisition was at 2:31am ET.


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## JohnH

Yeah, waiting on it to provide more signal for the Uplink Reports.


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## James Long

Kinda surprised it was a night launch ... I figured it would be at least dusk.
But a launch is a launch ... Go Echostar 11!


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## Richard King

rocatman said:


> There appears to be some rumors from another site that there are some communication problems with the launch vehicle. Nothing confirmed yet. If I see something else I will post.


So much for THAT rumor.


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## derwin0

Richard King said:


> So much for THAT rumor.


Yeah, too bad the E2 rumor was 100% true. :nono2:


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## neilo

Check out the coverage on Spaceflight Now
http://www.spaceflightnow.com/sealaunch/echostar11/index.html

Neil


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## lionsrule

Am I wrong, or is this really simply a replacement sat, adding little capacity??

This makes little or no impact on ability to significantly increase mpeg4 hd offerings......


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## harsh

lionsrule said:


> Am I wrong, or is this really simply a replacement sat, adding little capacity??


Yes. Things are pretty crowded in that slot, so it doesn't add much capacity to the 110W slot. It is more powerful, so it does add some capacity by requiring less error correction overhead.


> This makes little or no impact on ability to significantly increase mpeg4 hd offerings......


Not correct. This frees up E8 (which has spotbeams that aren't being used) to serve up HD content as part of the "Eastern Arc". E11 also has much better coverage for AK and HI than E8.


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## lionsrule

BUT, currently the number of subscribers that have 61.5 is NOT the majority...therefore dish would NOT put new NATIONAL HD's on 61.5.


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## mtame

so when you think the sat would be on 110 orbit and start to uplink channels?, 2 months?
thanks in advanced


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## Rob Glasser

Here is the press release from Sea Launch and some Pictures.

*Sea Launch Successfully Delivers EchoStar XI to Orbit*​
*Long Beach, Calif., July 16, 2008* - Sea Launch Company has successfully launched the EchoStar XI broadcast satellite from its ocean-based platform on the Equator, marking its fourth successful mission of 2008 and its third mission for DISH Network.

A Zenit-3SL rocket lifted off at 10:21pm PDT on July 15 (5:21 GMT, July 16) from the Odyssey Launch Platform, positioned at 154 degrees West Longitude. One hour later, the Block DM-SL upper stage inserted the 5,511 kg (12,150 lb) EchoStar XI satellite into geosynchronous transfer orbit, on its way to a final orbital position at 110 degrees West Longitude. Operators at the Gnangara ground station in Perth, Australia, acquired the spacecraft's first signals from orbit shortly after spacecraft separation. All systems performed nominally throughout the mission.

"Congratulations to DISH Network, and to Space Systems/Loral for tonight's outstanding success," said Kjell Karlsen, president and general manager of Sea Launch. "We're proud of our role in DISH Network's continued success. We thank you for your continued trust and confidence in our system and our team. I also want to thank the Sea Launch team, the Sea Launch partners, and all the suppliers and contractors around the world who support us."

Built by Space Systems/Loral (SS/L), the EchoStar XI spacecraft is designed for an orbital service life of 15 years, with 20kW of power to support the expansion of DISH Network's capacity and capabilities to customers throughout the United States.

"For the third mission in a row, Sea Launch has successfully launched a satellite for DISH Network, and we are thrilled to add our eleventh high-power satellite to our fleet," said Rohan Zaveri, vice president of Space Programs for DISH Network. "We look forward to beginning testing and ultimately enhancing our already extensive, high quality programming lineup."

*About Sea Launch Company*
Sea Launch Company, LLC, headquartered in Long Beach, Calif., offers the most direct and cost-effective route to geostationary orbit for commercial communications satellites. With the advantage of a launch site on the Equator, the robust Zenit-3SL rocket can lift a heavier mass or provide longer life on orbit, offering best value plus optimized spacecraft orbital delivery. Sea Launch also offers launch services for medium weight satellites, Land Launch, which initiates missions from the Baikonur Space Center in Kazakhstan. For more information, please visit the Sea Launch website at: www.sea-launch.com


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## Ron Barry

Sweet!!


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## Richard King

Love that first picture. How were you able to get so close?


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## curt8403

my congrats on a successful launch. May you have joy in your new bird.


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## nevets14

curt8403 said:


> my congrats on a successful launch. May you have joy in your new bird.


no doubt, us directv folk are still trying to enjoy our new bird


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## Ron Barry

Richard King said:


> Love that first picture. How were you able to get so close?


That first picture is way cool.... Nice and clear...


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## dhines

although i am a D* guy, no reason not to wish you guys the best . . . hell the competition makes the programming better for us all.

cheers.


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## Sixto

Per P Smith's request (in another thread) ... fairly sure that 33207 is Echostar 11


Code:


Name			OBJECT A
NORAD #			33207
COSPAR designator	2008-035-A  
Epoch (UTC)		07-16-2008 09:03:42
Orbit # at Epoch	0
Inclination		0.125
RA of A. Node		202.592
Eccentricity		0.7113749
Argument of Perigee	183.370
Revs per day		2.25612701
Period			10h 38m 15s (638.25 min)
Semi-major axis		24 556 km
Perigee x Apogee	709 x 35 647 km
Element number / age	2 / 0 day(s)

113.9898°


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## P Smith

113° - is it East ? 

Thanks Sixto.


----------



## Sixto

P Smith said:


> 113° - is it East ?
> 
> Thanks Sixto.


yep. 113.9898° E at the TLE timestamp.

146.3726° E now (projection based on TLE)


----------



## DodgerKing

Congrats on the successful launch of E11. Hopefully all of the testing works out and there are not problems.


----------



## P Smith

Will be interesting to compare SL launches - how the process of complete GSO placement is different between D-11 ans E-11 ?


----------



## DodgerKing

Comparing D12 is best as D11 is very unique.


----------



## harsh

DodgerKing said:


> Comparing D12 is best as D11 is very unique.


D11 is indistinguishable from D10 and D12. The major difference is that D11 will likely be the only one of the three that will be lofted by Sea Launch -- an advantage that they piddled away by taking two months to get it into orbit.


----------



## harsh

P Smith said:


> Will be interesting to compare SL launches - how the process of complete GSO placement is different between D-12 ans E-11 ?


D12 will likely be a land-based launch which will require a turn or two to convert from a non-equatorial orbit to an equatorial orbit.


----------



## Greg Alsobrook

Ron Barry said:


> That first picture is way cool.... Nice and clear...


+1 ... Awesome pic!

Congrats on the successful launch guys!


----------



## g182237

How long will it be before E11 starts broadcasting to HI?


----------



## rocatman

g182237 said:


> How long will it be before E11 starts broadcasting to HI?


The E-11 satellite will first be tested at the 138.5 W location and it should take 10 - 12 days to move it there based on what was done with the E-10 satellite which was launched by Sea Launch and tested at 138.5 W. I would expect E-11 to be tested for 3 - 4 weeks and then moved to 110 W. This would make E-11 operational by early September.


----------



## timhk

THE EASTERN ARC. I realize that it means a set of birds to supply the eastern US,but what are the facts as known.


----------



## harsh

rocatman said:


> I would expect E-11 to be tested for 3 - 4 weeks and then moved to 110 W.


D11 was tested for at most 13 days and it has directable spots. I would think that the test duration would be less for satellites without spotbeams.

Here's TLE #4:

1 33207U 08035A 08198.69434520 -.00000018 00000-0 00000+0 0 46
2 33207 000.1171 198.0385 7112326 188.0556 356.8234 02.25558236 16


----------



## harsh

Moments later, here's TLE #5:

1 33207U 08035A 08199.13765891 -.00000050 00000-0 00000+0 0 51
2 33207 000.1943 023.9793 4696595 002.5163 033.7870 01.79490943 24


----------



## P Smith

harsh, any chance convert the two line elements into readable form same as Sixto using for D11 ?


----------



## JohnH

It is all over the Equator, both high and low.


----------



## harsh

P Smith said:


> harsh, any chance convert the two line elements into readable form same as Sixto using for D11 ?


I don't have time to acquire and set up the software. You're more than welcome to do it on our behalf.


----------



## P Smith

In same boat.


----------



## James Long

http://www.space-track.org/tle_format.html
1 33207U 08035A *08199.13765891* -.00000050 00000-0 00000+0 0 51
2 33207 *000.1943 023.9793 4696595 002.5163 033.7870 01.79490943 24*

Element Set Epoch: 08199.13765891

Orbit Inclination (degrees): 000.1943
Right Ascension of Ascending Node (degrees): 023.9793
Eccentricity (decimal point assumed): 4696595
Argument of Perigee (degrees): 002.5163
Mean Anomaly (degrees): 033.7870
Mean Motion (revolutions/day): 01.79490943
Revolution Number at Epoch: 24​The revolutions per day has dropped slightly.


----------



## Radio Enginerd

dhines said:


> although i am a D* guy, no reason not to wish you guys the best . . . hell the competition makes the programming better for us all.
> 
> cheers.


Agree 100%. As we wait for our new bird to come online, a big congrats to you Echostar customers (having been one for many years). Here's to you!

:icon_da::icon_da::icon_da:


----------



## cforrest

Name	ECHOSTAR 11
NORAD #	33207
COSPAR designator	2008-035-A 
Epoch (UTC)	2008-07-17 03:18:13
Orbit # at Epoch	2
Inclination	0.194
RA of A. Node	23.979
Eccentricity	0.4696595
Argument of Perigee	2.516
Revs per day	1.79490943
Period	13h 22m 16s (802.27 min)
Semi-major axis	28 600 km
Perigee x Apogee	8 790 x 35 655 km
BStar (drag term)	0.000000000 1/ER
Mean anomaly	33.787
Propagation model	SDP4
Element number / age	5 / 1 day(s)
StdMag (MaxMag) / RCS	N/A
Diameters	N/A
Satellite group	Last Month Launches


Lon	39.6319° E
Lat	0.1034° N
Alt (km)	9 333.423
Azm	74.1°
Elv	-36.4°
RA	04h 27m 09s
Decl	-12° 44' 05"
Range (km)	18 639.992
RRt (km/s)	1.975
Vel (km/s)	6.067
Direction	Ascending
Eclipse	No
MA (phase)	8.5° (6)
TA	26.2°
Orbit #	4
Mag (illum)	Not visible
Constellation	Eri
2Sun
Azm	1.4°
Elv	-28.3°
RA	07h 51m 45s
Decl	20° 57' 22"
Lon	104.9373° E
Lat	20.9583° N
Range (km)	152 032 123
Constellation	Gem
3Moon
Azm	182.4°
Elv	25.2°
RA	19h 47m 30s
Decl	-24° 05' 36"
Lon	76.0125° W
Lat	23.3056° S
Range (km)	396 504
Illum	100%
Phase	Full moon
Constellation	Sgr


----------



## harsh

James Long said:


> 1 33207U 08035A *08199.13765891* -.00000050 00000-0 00000+0 0 51
> 2 33207 *000.1943 023.9793 4696595 002.5163 033.7870 01.79490943 24*
> 
> Revolution Number at Epoch: 24​


The RNE is 2. The "4" digit is a mod 10 checksum for the line. The "1" digit on line 1 is the checksum for that line.


----------



## James Long

Makes sense ... I thought 24 was high ...


----------



## harsh

Here's TLE #6:

Echostar 11
1 33207U 08035A 08199.62908719 -.00000050 +00000-0 +00000-0 0 00065
2 33207 000.1973 024.1732 4696052 002.3587 351.3269 01.79475449000035

Not a big change in eccentricity.

The fourth collection of digits on the first line (08199.62908719), the epoch date, tells us that the TLE is dated the 199th day (July 18th) of 2008 at 15:07GMT.

08 = 2008
199.62908719 = day (199.00000000 = 0:00GMT July 18th).


----------



## harsh

Hats off to Sixto for finding this:

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-08-1690A1.pdf

It speaks to an STA for Echostar to test E11.


----------



## P Smith

So, Monday we will see first channels from E11 at 138W position.


----------



## space86

James Long how long until Echostar 11 starts broadcasting Channels ?


----------



## rocatman

space86 said:


> James Long how long until Echostar 11 starts broadcasting Channels ?


See post #118 of this thread.


----------



## rocatman

P Smith said:


> So, Monday we will see first channels from E11 at 138W position.


See post #118 of this thread.


----------



## Sixto

Code:


Name			Dish XI
NORAD #			33207
Epoch (UTC)		07-17-2008 15:05:53
Orbit # at Epoch	3
Inclination		0.197
RA of A. Node		24.173
Eccentricity		0.4696052
Argument of Perigee	2.359
Revs per day		1.79475449
Period			13h 22m 20s (802.33 min)
Semi-major axis		28 602 km
Perigee x Apogee	8 792 x 35 656 km
Element number / age	0006 / 1 day(s)

162.2885° W


----------



## P Smith

rocatman said:


> See post #118 of this thread.


Wanna bet what we will see at 138W and when ?


----------



## P Smith

This site shows -97 degree, ie 97W.


----------



## harsh

P Smith said:


> This site shows -97 degree, ie 97W.


Unfortunately for those who use n2yo, it is often a day or so slow on getting new TLEs. Sixto used the latest publicly available TLE (#6).

I should note that the last number is _not_ the longitude. It looks like it is either the "True Anomaly" or maybe the azimuth relative to the Sixto household.

At 0:00GMT Saturday, the _predicted_ longitude is 99.9705 degrees.


----------



## harsh

Thanks for the conversion Sixto!


----------



## harsh

P Smith said:


> Wanna bet what we will see at 138W and when ?


It is unlikely that you'll see anything. Consider these:

1. Most don't have a DBS dish pointed at 138W and would have a hard time finding the slot until E11 gets there.
2. They probably won't use much in the way of FTA video content to do the testing. More than likely it will be specially designed content to push the design limits of the technology.
3. SSL is probably going to be doing most (if not all) of the testing.


----------



## Sixto

harsh said:


> Unfortunately for those who use n2yo, it is often a day or so slow on getting new TLEs. Sixto used the latest publicly available TLE (#6).
> 
> I should note that the last number is _not_ the longitude. It looks like it is either the "True Anomaly" or maybe the azimuth relative to the Sixto household.
> 
> At 0:00GMT Saturday, the _predicted_ longitude is 99.9705 degrees.


It was the longitude exactly at the TLE. There's huge variation hour-to-hour this early in the life of the satellite.


----------



## P Smith

harsh said:


> It is unlikely that you'll see anything. Consider these:
> 
> 1. Most don't have a DBS dish pointed at 138W and would have a hard time finding the slot until E11 gets there.
> 2. They probably won't use much in the way of FTA video content to do the testing. More than likely it will be specially designed content to push the design limits of the technology.
> 3. SSL is probably going to be doing most (if not all) of the testing.


a) We have enough FTAers here and there
b) With same probability those channels could be unencrypted
c) I'll ask to explain the "SSL" - I know a couple different meaning of the acronym.


----------



## James Long

Space Systems Loral seems to be most appropriate.
Certainly not secure socket layers.


----------



## Richard King

How about this SSL? http://www.solid-state-logic.com/music/Duality/index.asp I'd like one of these, but then, I have always liked knobs and have no idea what I would do with it here.


----------



## kstuart

timhk said:


> THE EASTERN ARC. I realize that it means a set of birds to supply the eastern US,but what are the facts as known.


Dish Network purchased a satellite at 61.5 with a lot of spot beams, and this has allowed them to provide a lot of HD Locals from 61.5.

However, that requires customers to have two dishes - one for 110/119 and one for 61.5.

Someone had the idea to obtain the 72 and 77 slots, put satellites there that are not being used (E*6 and E*8) and mirror the 110/119 content there, which would allow Dish to provide HD Locals from 61.5 and use a single dish. That new dish is already being manufactured and is called a Dish 1000.4


----------



## kstuart

space86 said:


> how long until Echostar 11 starts broadcasting Channels ?


From what has been stated in this thread (i.e. previous experience with DirecTV 11), a good guess is - mid-August at the earliest, early September at the latest.


----------



## James Long

The original plan was a launch by November 15th and in use by December 15th (2007). A 30 day window. That fits with a mid to late August timeline.


----------



## harsh

TLE #8:

1 33207U 08035A 08200.70000001 -.00000114 +00000-0 +00000-0 0 00087
2 33207 000.0850 015.4430 1006669 011.3920 272.8250 01.16404850000040

There apparently wasn't a TLE #7.


----------



## daleles

What's going to happen to the current E-8 at 110 when it's replaced by the E-11?


----------



## JohnH

Testing at 138.5 will most likely require a spectrum analyser or analog receiver to detect. A DVB receiver will likely see nothing.

The STA to test it is for 30 days beginning today. Of course, it may not be in position today to start testing.


----------



## James Long

daleles said:


> What's going to happen to the current E-8 at 110 when it's replaced by the E-11?


"In orbit spare" seems likely (unless I missed a move request - too many moves and not enough time).


----------



## kstuart

daleles said:


> What's going to happen to the current E-8 at 110 when it's replaced by the E-11?


E*6 and E*8 will be moved to 72 West and 77 West and will mirror the 110 and 119 channels, allowing those whose HD Locals are on 61.5 to use a single dish for all channels (the new "Dish 1000.4").


----------



## harsh

Tle #9:

1 33207u 08035a 08201.37492333 -.00000064 +00000-0 +00000-0 0 00099
2 33207 000.0979 013.6784 1006915 013.1526 195.6678 01.16398018000055


----------



## DishTSR3Mentor

kstuart said:


> E*6 and E*8 will be moved to 72 West and 77 West and will mirror the 110 and 119 channels, allowing those whose HD Locals are on 61.5 to use a single dish for all channels (the new "Dish 1000.4").


where did you hear about the 1k.4?


----------



## P Smith

There was pictures from Team Summit, posted at satguys site.


----------



## Sixto

man, dish xi is getting there in a hurry ... 34 583 x 35 624 km ... now back to D11 ...


----------



## P Smith

See,they're catching up. Soon we will see _programs_ at 138.5W not the blank signals from D11  .


----------



## JohnH

No programs, just testing.


----------



## spear61

Sixto said:


> man, dish xi is getting there in a hurry ... 34 583 x 35 624 km ... now back to D11 ...


Wow! Your link shows D11 taking 2 months for about the same movement E11 made in 8-9 days . Must be that fuel is not assumed to be on critical path for full satellite life.


----------



## Sixto

spear61 said:


> Wow! Your link shows D11 taking 2 months for about the same movement E11 made in 8-9 days . Must be that fuel is not assumed to be on critical path for full satellite life.


Does seem that time is much more critical for Echostar XI, then D11 ...


----------



## DodgerKing

spear61 said:


> Wow! Your link shows D11 taking 2 months for about the same movement E11 made in 8-9 days . Must be that fuel is not assumed to be on critical path for full satellite life.


The maneuvering and testing that D11 went through will be beneficial to Dish later down the road as well.


----------



## James Long

Hmmm ... headline "DISH passes DirecTV in HD space race!" ? 

It certainly doesn't look like DISH is going to waste any time getting E11 tested and in place.


----------



## harsh

Great Googly Moogly! They're really throwing the fuel to E11.

TLE #12:

1 33207U 08035A 08203.57422230 -.00000065 +00000-0 +00000-0 0 00127
2 33207 000.0030 036.6790 0125395 351.5990 330.7770 01.02758925000082

Since I'm taking the evening off for my birthday, I decided to run the TLE (2:35GMT Wednesday):

ECHOSTAR 11
Lon	133.5806° W
Lat	0.0069° N

At this rate, it seems like it could be thinking about commencing testing yet this week (depending on how round the orbit needs to be).


----------



## harsh

James Long said:


> Hmmm ... headline "DISH passes DirecTV in HD space race!" ?


There are at least two things wrong with this headline:

1. D11 is in its final position and being dialed in and E11 hasn't been parked for testing yet.
2. E11 isn't destined for HD programming any time soon. In theory, nothing new will come of this HD bandwidth-wise until after Ceil 2 is up and running.

We need to not fall into the promised capacity=channels trap that our brethren were mired in for so long.


----------



## James Long

Actually, all of DISH's ConUS HD at 110° will move to E11 - so this will be a HD satellite very soon (and with the higher power we are likely to see more HD channels on E11 than we do on E8).

I'll accept correction on that headline if you'll allow the question "why can DISH get their satellite to orbit so quickly while DirecTV putters around?"  Kinda like the last couple of years waiting for D10 ...

All in good fun - thanks for the location reports and decoding.


----------



## DodgerKing

James Long said:


> Actually, all of DISH's ConUS HD at 110° will move to E11 - so this will be a HD satellite very soon (and with the higher power we are likely to see more HD channels on E11 than we do on E8).
> 
> I'll accept correction on that headline if you'll allow the question "why can DISH get their satellite to orbit so quickly while DirecTV putters around?"  Kinda like the last couple of years waiting for D10 ...
> 
> All in good fun - thanks for the location reports and decoding.


I think you know the answer to this...


The testing at several locations, including testing that will benifit Dish in the near future as well.

They were no hurry what so ever.


----------



## kstuart

DodgerKing said:


> The testing at several locations, including testing that will benifit Dish in the near future as well.


Now I'm curious ... how does Dish Network benefit from DirecTV testing their satellite ??



DodgerKing said:


> Full time HD RSN's should be counted towards Direct's HD total since they are available to everyone 24/7.


Actually they are not available to everyone 24/7 due to blackout rules.


----------



## Christopher Gould

kstuart said:


> Now I'm curious ... how does Dish Network benefit from DirecTV testing their satellite ??
> 
> Actually they are not available to everyone 24/7 due to blackout rules.


because D* was testing new ferquencies in the bss band for the FCC what E8 may get in the future


----------



## Christopher Gould

James Long said:


> Actually, all of DISH's ConUS HD at 110° will move to E11 - so this will be a HD satellite very soon (and with the higher power we are likely to see more HD channels on E11 than we do on E8).
> 
> I'll accept correction on that headline if you'll allow the question "why can DISH get their satellite to orbit so quickly while DirecTV putters around?"  Kinda like the last couple of years waiting for D10 ...
> 
> All in good fun - thanks for the location reports and decoding.


its called burning more fuel and lowering the life of the satellite


----------



## DodgerKing

kstuart said:


> Now I'm curious ... how does Dish Network benefit from DirecTV testing their satellite ??


What Gould said...


> Actually they are not available to everyone 24/7 due to blackout rules.


You realize you were quoting my sig and do you really want me to get off topic? Since you commented I will reply. I believe this is like the second time you brought this up so this is the last time I will reply to it (the other time being on satelliteguys).

Blackouts are avoided with sports subscriptions. Meaning if anyone is willing to pay, they will be able to watch pretty much everything (including pro games) on any full time out of market RSN. This is no different than ESPN, which is also counted as full time without having to pay extra.

If your criteria is the extra pay, then one can argue that the premiums shouldn't count either. My criteria is availability. If I on the west coast can watch NESN or YES full time (which I can btw), then it is full time.


----------



## syphix

How _wrong_ can some "reporters" be??

http://blogs.zdnet.com/gadgetreviews/?p=288


> DISH Network successfully launched their EchoStar XI satellite this morning, thus allowing the network to add 17 new HD channels, bringing them to a grand total of about 100.


a) XI is -- correct me if I'm wrong -- not even parked yet.
b) XI has nothing to do with the 17 new HD channels Dish is launching...
c) ...on August 1st. They're not at 100 quite yet.


----------



## spear61

Christopher Gould said:


> because D* was testing new ferquencies in the bss band for the FCC what E8 may get in the future


Yup, They tested the new 17Ghz band into LA if I recall correctly. Ciel recently got their 17 Ghz approvals in principal and Dish's 17 Ghz applications are in process. This is good for everyone.


----------



## kstuart

DodgerKing said:


> You realize you were quoting my sig and do you really want me to get off topic? Since you commented I will reply.


A sig file is visible in a thread, and if someone posts several times in a thread, then that sig file statement is posted several times in that thread.

The idea that a sig file statement is some sort of loophole for posting statements that other people cannot discuss, is misunderstanding the concept.

A "signature file" is for a signature, which until recently was something like:


> Yours Truly,
> 
> Ken Stuart


When email and USENET started, then signatures became more "cute", like:


> The worst day fishing is better than the best day working.


But, if posts about Obama and McCain are off-topic in a Forum, then they are equally off-topic in a sig file (which is merely an automated device for posting sentences in that Forum).
Furthermore, _the idea that sig files are a way to post an opinion that is immune from reply is bizarre._ 
If replying to the sentence in the sig file is off-topic, then isn't the sentence in the sig file off-topic every one of the three hundred times that it appears ??


----------



## DodgerKing

kstuart said:


> A sig file is visible in a thread, and if someone posts several times in a thread, then that sig file statement is posted several times in that thread.
> 
> The idea that a sig file statement is some sort of loophole for posting statements that other people cannot discuss, is misunderstanding the concept.
> 
> A "signature file" is for a signature, which until recently was something like:
> 
> When email and USENET started, then signatures became more "cute", like:
> 
> But, if posts about Obama and McCain are off-topic in a Forum, then they are equally off-topic in a sig file (which is merely an automated device for posting sentences in that Forum).
> Furthermore, _the idea that sig files are a way to post an opinion that is immune from reply is bizarre._
> If replying to the sentence in the sig file is off-topic, then isn't the sentence in the sig file off-topic every one of the three hundred times that it appears ??


Fine, but I have answered this question posted by you on two different forum sites already so there is no need to continually bring it up, especially in a thread unrelated to the sig.


----------



## harsh

Jumpin' Jiminy

TLE #15

1 33207U 08035A 08204.61555284 +.00000098 +00000-0 +00000-0 0 00157
2 33207 000.0023 026.4698 0020728 185.2050 168.8507 01.00549382000093

Echostar 11
Lon	140.8100° W
Lat	0.0085° N

Looks like they fired a little hard somewhere. Either that or they too are pulling some sort of BSS stunt. I haven't had a chance to look at the intervening TLEs to see if they ever got it parked at 138.5W (where rocatman says it will be tested).

EDIT: Apparently there were no TLEs numbered 3, 7, 10, 11, 13 nor 14


----------



## DodgerKing

harsh said:


> Jumpin' Jiminy
> 
> TLE #15
> 
> 1 33207U 08035A 08204.61555284 +.00000098 +00000-0 +00000-0 0 00157
> 2 33207 000.0023 026.4698 0020728 185.2050 168.8507 01.00549382000093
> 
> Echostar 11
> Lon	140.8100° W
> Lat	0.0085° N
> 
> Looks like they fired a little hard somewhere. Either that or they too are pulling some sort of BSS stunt. I haven't had a chance to look at the intervening TLEs to see if they ever got it parked at 138.5W


Can you interpret this for us? What is the apogee and perigee?


----------



## harsh

kstuart said:


> Actually they are not available to everyone 24/7 due to blackout rules.


Blackouts happen to many RSNs. Blackouts of CONUS RSNs happen a much lower percentage of the time.

I concur with DodgerKing's observation but with the understanding that the RSNs in question are only available to those with the Sports Pack.


----------



## HDRoberts

DodgerKing said:


> Can you interpret this for us? What is the apogee and perigee?


I'm not quite bright enough for that. However, there are 2 numbers of particular importance:

Inclination : 000.0023 
Eccentricity (0=circular) 0.0020728

Last TLE had them at 000.0030 and 0.0125395, respectively. For comarision, the slightly wobbly E5 is at 000.0403 (inclination is lower in E11 already) and 0.0002772 (still a little to go).

They are very close.


----------



## rocatman

HDRoberts said:


> I'm not quite bright enough for that. However, there are 2 numbers of particular importance:
> 
> Inclination : 000.0023
> Eccentricity (0=circular) 0.0020728
> 
> Last TLE had them at 000.0030 and 0.0125395, respectively. For comarision, the slightly wobbly E5 is at 000.0403 (inclination is lower in E11 already) and 0.0002772 (still a little to go).
> 
> They are very close.


The way things are going, E-11 could be operational at 110 W by August 15.


----------



## harsh

DodgerKing said:


> Can you interpret this for us? What is the apogee and perigee?


Apogee = 35 796 km
Perigee = 35 622 km

Looking at the other Echostar satellites most seem to be running an apogee of 35798km and a perigee of 35775km.

Without running the model, you can get a better sense of the "out of roundness" by looking at the fifth number on line 2 (eccentricity) which in this case is 0.20728%.
For comparison:

D11: 0.01892%
D10: 0.00269%
E10: 0.02101%.

The Ku satellites of both companies are running around .03% eccentricity (maybe 30% tighter on the spotbeam satellites).

I think it likely that, due to the use of Ka spotbeams, the newest DIRECTV satellites must be held to substantially higher tolerances than most other DBS satellites. The Ka spotbeams are so narrow that the edges of some markets would fade in and out if the satellite were to wobble much. Imagine trying to point at something with a beam a little larger than a LASER pointer at a distance of almost 22,000 miles.


----------



## P Smith

rocatman said:


> The way things are going, E-11 could be operational at 110 W by August 15.


Only if you assuming all systems are OK during tests at 138.5W and no failure(s) during transition to 110W.


----------



## P Smith

"Imagine trying to point at something with a beam a little larger than a LASER pointer at a distance of almost 22,000 miles." - umm, little dramatizations ? 
Laser beam will come to less then 100 metres in diameter when SB is 200 Km.


----------



## harsh

rocatman said:


> The way things are going, E-11 could be operational at 110 W by August 15.


A month seems awfully quick, but as James pointed out, they're not wasting any time.


----------



## James Long

DodgerKing said:


> Fine, but I have answered this question posted by you on two different forum sites already so there is no need to continually bring it up, especially in a thread unrelated to the sig.


Agreed ... although I also agree that one can virtually spam a forum with a viewpoint in a signature. If it were about Obama or McCain or violated _any_ other rule it would be taken care of by moderators (when they noticed or when someone reported the signature).

For a public debate of the viewpoint in a sig it would be best to start a new thread - or (as in this case) just use one of the many many many threads discussing the topic of channel counts. If you can't find one, look again!

If anyone has any more question about forum moderation please PM a moderator. As for this thread, it is about Echostar 11 - not signatures or moderation ... therefore the last word will be:
:backtotop


----------



## DodgerKing

HDRoberts said:


> I'm not quite bright enough for that. However, there are 2 numbers of particular importance:
> 
> Inclination : 000.0023
> Eccentricity (0=circular) 0.0020728
> 
> Last TLE had them at 000.0030 and 0.0125395, respectively. For comarision, the slightly wobbly E5 is at 000.0403 (inclination is lower in E11 already) and 0.0002772 (still a little to go).
> 
> They are very close.


Thanks...
I understand eccentricity and inclination, I just did not know which numbers represented what and how one is able to get the perigee and apogee from those numbers (if they can at all).


----------



## DodgerKing

harsh said:


> Apogee = 35 796 km
> Perigee = 35 622 km
> 
> Looking at the other Echostar satellites most seem to be running an apogee of 35798km and a perigee of 35775km.
> 
> Without running the model, you can get a better sense of the "out of roundness" by looking at the fifth number on line 2 (eccentricity) which in this case is 0.20728%.
> For comparison:
> 
> D11: 0.01892%
> D10: 0.00269%
> E10: 0.02101%.
> 
> The Ku satellites of both companies are running around .03% eccentricity (maybe 30% tighter on the spotbeam satellites).
> 
> I think it likely that, due to the use of Ka spotbeams, the newest DIRECTV satellites must be held to substantially higher tolerances than most other DBS satellites. The Ka spotbeams are so narrow that the edges of some markets would fade in and out if the satellite were to wobble much. Imagine trying to point at something with a beam a little larger than a LASER pointer at a distance of almost 22,000 miles.


5th number...thanks!


----------



## James Long

rocatman said:


> The way things are going, E-11 could be operational at 110 W by August 15.


As noted ... last year's plan was for a "by November 15th" launch and a "by December 15th" in use date. 30 days if all goes well ... they planned for the speed that they are moving now.


----------



## harsh

P Smith said:


> Laser beam will come to less then 100 metres in diameter when SB is 200 Km.


I'm betting that a Ka spotbeam is much narrower than 200Km.

The trig out at 35,787Km would be out to several decimal places and I'm comfortable with calling that "small".

The point isn't so much the size of the beam as it is trying to hold the pointer steady.


----------



## g182237

When E11 is in place, will HI subs be able to receive ALL the national HD channels that the CONUS subs can?


----------



## harsh

g182237 said:


> When E11 is in place, will HI subs be able to receive ALL the national HD channels that the CONUS subs can?


No. 
Additional HI national HD will have to wait for Ceil 2 (129W).


----------



## harsh

TLE #16

Echostar 11
1 33207U 08035A 08204.89064782 +.00000097 +00000-0 +00000-0 0 00165
2 33207 000.0143 026.8516 0020623 184.0602 269.1970 01.00553150000090

Not much change.


----------



## spear61

I captured a shot of E8's spectrum and am going to do it again when E11 arrives at 110. The application says that the peak EIRP will be 0.8 dBw higher at the peak signal point.


----------



## harsh

TLE #17:

Echostar 11
1 33207U 08035A 08206.62721610 .00000100 00000-0 00000+0 0 173
2 33207 000.0060 049.2050 0012529 164.2750 175.2760 01.00443998 115

Steadied, but still hanging around at 139.76.


----------



## Sixto

Not gonna make a habit of it but just noticed ...


Code:


1 33207U 08035A   08207.55855656  .00000097  00000-0  00000+0 0   180
2 33207 000.0181 038.9395 0013675 173.3980 153.1998 01.00441880   122

Name			ECHOSTAR 11
COSPAR designator	2008-035-A  
Epoch (UTC)		07-25-2008 13:24:19
Orbit # at Epoch	12
Inclination		0.018
RA of A. Node		38.940
Eccentricity		0.0013675
Argument of Perigee	173.398
Revs per day		1.00441880
Period			23h 53m 39s (1433.65 min)
Semi-major axis		42 117 km
Perigee x Apogee	35 681 x 35 797 km
Element number / age	18 / 0 day(s)

Lon			139.0943° W
Lat			0.0240° S


----------



## rocatman

Sixto said:


> Not gonna make a habit of it but just noticed ...
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> 1 33207U 08035A   08207.55855656  .00000097  00000-0  00000+0 0   180
> 2 33207 000.0181 038.9395 0013675 173.3980 153.1998 01.00441880   122
> 
> Name			ECHOSTAR 11
> COSPAR designator	2008-035-A
> Epoch (UTC)		07-25-2008 13:24:19
> Orbit # at Epoch	12
> Inclination		0.018
> RA of A. Node		38.940
> Eccentricity		0.0013675
> Argument of Perigee	173.398
> Revs per day		1.00441880
> Period			23h 53m 39s (1433.65 min)
> Semi-major axis		42 117 km
> Perigee x Apogee	35 681 x 35 797 km
> Element number / age	18 / 0 day(s)
> 
> Lon			139.0943° W
> Lat			0.0240° S


Based on these numbers, E-11 should start testing this weekend.


----------



## harsh

Sixto said:


> Not gonna make a habit of it but just noticed ...


I appreciate your help!


----------



## spear61

Looks like it is at 138.5 and probably tightening up the eccentricity.


----------



## harsh

spear61 said:


> Looks like it is at 138.5 and probably tightening up the eccentricity.


Eccentricity is well within conventional parameters. I would imagine that testing has already begun for some of the non-position specific tests.


----------



## P Smith

Just checked the spot 138.5W - no signals.


----------



## kstuart

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-08-1737A1.pdf



> On July 24, 2008, the Satellite Division granted EchoStar Satellite Operating L.L.C. special temporary authority for 30 days commencing on August 9, 2008 to operate its EchoStar 8 satellite in the 12.2-12.7 and 17.3-17.8 GHz bands at the 109.8º W.L. orbital location while customer communications are transferred to its new EchoStar 11 satellite operating at the 110.0º W.L. orbital location.


----------



## P Smith

Posted already, kstuart. Actually it was abot E8 not our subject - E11.


----------



## harsh

P Smith said:


> Posted already, kstuart. Actually it was abot E8 not our subject - E11.


The point being that E8 will have moved by then and left an opening for E11 to drop into.


----------



## P Smith

I'm thinking to see signals at 138.5W first.


----------



## spear61

harsh said:


> The point being that E8 will have moved by then and left an opening for E11 to drop into.


And that transfer to the new E11 will be complete by Sept 8.


----------



## spear61

P Smith said:


> I'm thinking to see signals at 138.5W first.


Are they transmitting the NIT?


----------



## grooves12

Has Echostar announced or petitioned the FCC for its plans for E8 once the transition to E11 is complete??

I would think since E11 is basically a replacement delivering existing programming, with only a minor increase in bandwidth, that what Echostar decides to do with E8 would have the most impact on available bandwidth to Dish's customers.

Can e8 operate efficiently at 129 or 61.5 and allow them to activate the spot beams for the potential of offloading HD locals from the other sats there or just deliver more local markets??


----------



## rocatman

grooves12 said:


> Has Echostar announced or petitioned the FCC for its plans for E8 once the transition to E11 is complete??
> 
> I would think since E11 is basically a replacement delivering existing programming, with only a minor increase in bandwidth, that what Echostar decides to do with E8 would have the most impact on available bandwidth to Dish's customers.
> 
> Can e8 operate efficiently at 129 or 61.5 and allow them to activate the spot beams for the potential of offloading HD locals from the other sats there or just deliver more local markets??


Dish has applied to the FCC to move the E-8 satellite to the Mexican 77 W DBS slot to provide service to both Mexico and the U.S. I believe the application had 8 TPs dedicated to Mexico with the rest to the U.S. The application does not address use of the E-8 spotbeam capability. In regards to increasing bandwidth at least for the Eastern Arc, the E-6 satellite has been moved to the Canadian 72.7 W DBS slot and Dish has FCC permission to provide programming to the U.S. Dish has stated that they will initially use 11 TPs on E-6.


----------



## harsh

ECHOSTAR 11
1 33207U 08035A 08214.24451979 .00000087 00000-0 00000+0 0 240
2 33207 000.0255 059.2512 0002829 120.2135 080.2558 01.00271058 189

Not much new.


----------



## spear61

Epoch (UTC): 10:43:58, Sunday, August 3, 2008 
Eccentricity: 0.0002767 
Inclination: 0.032° 
Perigee height: 35774 km 
Apogee height: 35797 km 
Right Ascension of ascending node: 66.4851° 
Argument of perigee: 112.9392° 
Revolutions per day: 1.00272462 
Mean anomaly at epoch: 155.4415° 
Orbit number at epoch: 20 

Still parked at 138.5


----------



## spear61

E11 has finished testing and is moving to 110.


----------



## harsh

spear61 said:


> E11 has finished testing and is moving to 110.


At the rate it is moving, it will take 12 days to get there. It isn't moving with purpose yet.

Echostar 11
1 33207U 08035A 08221.38129003 .00000015 00000-0 10000-3 0 340
2 33207 000.0274 304.3435 0004418 177.1720 197.8232 01.00858808 251


----------



## g182237

When will E11 arrive at 110?


----------



## harsh

g182237 said:


> When will E11 arrive at 110?


See post 213. When it finally settles down is unknown, but it should fire up by the end of the month.

ECHOSTAR 11
1 33207U 08035A 08227.72184135 -.00000057 00000-0 00000+0 0 387
2 33207 000.0158 008.5797 0002172 118.0611 334.0363 01.00819898 328


----------



## simulated

http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/servlet/ib.page.FetchAttachment?attachment_key=-152303

"The in-orbit testing of EchoStar 11 
took longer than anticipated, necessitating this immediate extension request."

hope nothing bad happened.


----------



## P Smith

I have seen random 'sparks' instead of normal tpn activity at 138.5W that time.
Seems to me it was a failure with TWTAs warm up.


----------



## James Long

No biggie ... the move authority ends August 19th and the satellite won't be at 110° until the 21st ... The satellite started moving August 6th so it is well on it's way.

"Once the satellite reaches 110.0° W.L., which is now expected to occur on or around August 21, it will begin DBS operation pursuant to regular authority."


----------



## spear61

at 120.5193° W


----------



## kal915

spear61 said:


> at 120.5193° W


Come on, you're almost there


----------



## spear61

118.9227° W

Waved a solar panal as it passed by E7.


----------



## Aransay

aodring tomy soces 13 tp for emxican use

rumros abotu a septbe 1alaun i se ti n[posible i ebelvie in octover / nvoeber

rumros abotu 20 chanenls in mpge4 at 77 west sicne the weak ican only chejk sd dhannel; rpeosm tokee traking


----------



## plarkinjr

Aransay said:


> aodring tomy soces 13 tp for emxican use
> 
> rumros abotu a septbe 1alaun i se ti n[posible i ebelvie in octover / nvoeber
> 
> rumros abotu 20 chanenls in mpge4 at 77 west sicne the weak ican only chejk sd dhannel; rpeosm tokee traking


Uhmmmmm...... Yes? :scratchin


----------



## compubit

Aransay said:


> aodring tomy soces 13 tp for emxican use
> 
> rumros abotu a septbe 1alaun i se ti n[posible i ebelvie in octover / nvoeber
> 
> rumros abotu 20 chanenls in mpge4 at 77 west sicne the weak ican only chejk sd dhannel; rpeosm tokee traking


Jim's translation:

According to my sources, 13 transponders for Mexican Use

Rumors about a September 1 launch is not possible; He believes in October/November.

Rumors about 20 channels in MPEG-4 at 77 west; he can only check SD channels
(stuck on the last 3 words, though).

- Jim


----------



## JohnH

EchoStar 8 has moved to 109.8 west making room for EchoStar 11 which should be in the area of 110.0 west on Thursday.


----------



## James Long

0.2° shouldn't make a difference, but if anyone is having 'new' problems with 110° wait until after E11 comes online at the old E8 position before you reaim to fix 'new' problems!


----------



## Jason Dalton

Dad...are we there yet?:hurah:


----------



## DishSatUser

Jason Dalton said:


> Dad...are we there yet?:hurah:


Don't make me pull this Satellite over!!


----------



## jefbal99

any new TLEs?


----------



## harsh

Here's the current TLE:

ECHOSTAR 11
1 33207U 08035A 08233.33420667 -.00000123 00000-0 00000+0 0 434
2 33207 000.0340 335.3072 0002058 172.8843 189.5575 01.00820432 375

This puts the bird at 109.884W as of this posting but it is still in the easterly travel orbit.


----------



## James Long

Right on target to stop on Thursday.

It is within the window for a properly aimed DISH. The regular transponders must be off during the move to prevent interference. I wonder if the camera telemetry channel is putting out an image?


----------



## Mr. Vega

now its at 109.28 and still going... what gives.

someone needs to fire the aft thruster.


----------



## JohnH

Mr. Vega said:


> now its at 109.28 and still going... what gives.
> 
> someone needs to fire the aft thruster.


Those of us that have watched these for a long time have noticed that the satellites stop where they are supposed to, but the data for the calculations is not updated at that time. There is always some lag in the info.


----------



## kstuart

Mr. Vega said:


> now its at 109.28 and still going... what gives.
> 
> someone needs to fire the aft thruster.


It must be the Klingons !


----------



## Aransay

Is ehco 1 on apcle yet)


----------



## simulated

any new tle's? n2yo site's "REAL TIME SATELLITE TRACKING" shows echo11 past it's mark, I'm presuming this is automated and not accurate.


----------



## mtame

simulated said:


> any new tle's? n2yo site's "REAL TIME SATELLITE TRACKING" shows echo11 past it's mark, I'm presuming this is automated and not accurate.


Anyone knows what happen?. If E11 would move more or its now in 110 orbit althought the sattracker webpage said that it has move to 108 orbit ?

when it supposed to start dish the migration to new sat or how its going to work?
thanks


----------



## kal915

simulated said:


> any new tle's? n2yo site's "REAL TIME SATELLITE TRACKING" shows echo11 past it's mark, I'm presuming this is automated and not accurate.


According to this, it is at 113.5 http://www.lyngsat.com/tracker/echo11.html


----------



## Christopher Gould

simulated said:


> any new tle's? n2yo site's "REAL TIME SATELLITE TRACKING" shows echo11 past it's mark, I'm presuming this is automated and not accurate.


none of these sites are real time tracking. they are guesses from the last TLE


----------



## simulated

"I'm presuming this is automated and not accurate."

yes, i'm well aware, was asking if there are new TLE's to show where exactly echo11 is.


----------



## James Long

simulated said:


> yes, i'm well aware, was asking if there are new TLE's to show where exactly echo11 is.


NORAD has:


Code:


ECHOSTAR 11             
1 33207U 08035A   08233.33420667 -.00000123  00000-0  00000+0 0   434
2 33207   0.0340 335.3072 0002058 172.8843 189.5575  1.00820432   375

Which is the same TLE n2yo is using at this moment.

It is 46h27m old ... so I wouldn't trust it. Yes, it would be nice to find a newer one!


----------



## harsh

James Long said:


> It is 46h27m old ... so I wouldn't trust it. Yes, it would be nice to find a newer one!


It is still the latest.


----------



## harsh

kal915 said:


> According to this, it is at 113.5 http://www.lyngsat.com/tracker/echo11.html


This is not a very up-to-date resource.


----------



## James Long

harsh said:


> It is still the latest.


Latest is useless when the current location the data predicts is far past the destination.


----------



## JohnH

In other words, don't watch the data too closely. The signal may jump out and get you without you noticeing.


----------



## James Long

E11 ... assuming it stopped  ... should be in place where the telemetry can be read.
I wonder if the camera is active and sending a nice picture?


----------



## simulated

James Long said:


> I wonder if the camera is active and sending a nice picture?


Any idea how they are down linking this camera? Regular dbs frequency? Something else?

In any case, I hope they let us see the pictures.


----------



## James Long

The primary downlink is a telemetry channel ... not a normal DBS channel. It should be easy to pick up with the right equipment.

I too hope that DISH uplinks it to a channel for subscribers to view.


----------



## harsh

James Long said:


> Latest is useless when the current location the data predicts is far past the destination.


Just because you don't like the answer doesn't necessarily invalidate it. You sound like one of those D* dunderheads that believes that TLEs are "sightings".

Anyway, here's TLE #44 and it calculates out that E11 is home:

ECHOSTAR 11
1 33207U 08035A 08235.00000000 -.00000056 00000-0 00000+0 0 441
2 33207 000.0100 000.0000 0001000 000.0000 220.6710 01.00277486 394

ECHOSTAR 11
Lon	109.9850° W
Lat	0.0006° S
Epoch (UTC)	2008-08-22 00:00:00
Eccentricity	0.0001000
Perigee x Apogee	35 781 x 35 789 km

Note the epoch was Friday at 0:00:00.


----------



## James Long

harsh said:


> Just because you don't like the answer doesn't necessarily invalidate it. You sound like one of those D* dunderheads that believes that TLEs are "sightings".


The answer was invald because it was contradicted by other information and was based on aged information that needed updating.

Only a "dunderhead" would believe that a satellite moving to 110° would be at 107° and moving further east. 

But thanks for providing the TLE evidence that we've been waiting for to confirm that E11 did come to a stop in the right place.


----------



## yihaa75

harsh said:


> Just because you don't like the answer doesn't necessarily invalidate it. You sound like one of those D* dunderheads that believes that TLEs are "sightings".


Guess the nick says it all. LOL! 

Yay!!!! Echo 11 is at home plate!!!


----------



## Aransay

echsoatr 11 eems to be on fire doinga bdlin can wityha fta riht nown 
rumso abto 5960 shwoing the arth cmara

ch 5990 showinh teh live cmara ]
/-[0p-[-


----------



## jefbal99

Aransay said:


> echsoatr 11 eems to be on fire doinga bdlin can wityha fta riht nown
> rumso abto 5960 shwoing the arth cmara
> 
> ch 5990 showinh teh live cmara ]
> /-[0p-[-


Can anybody with an FTA setup get some screenshots of this feed?


----------



## P Smith

Huh ? Ch5960 located on 148W tp 17 MPEG-4 hidden ( eng mode) should be scrambled.


----------



## Aransay

h anenl si ebing fodun fta on 110 fptrtec emrcury 2 reciver

msitaeke 
cooret 5990 the channel


----------



## P Smith

Still scrambled 

ts debug: * service id=1 eit schedule=1 present=0 running=0 *free_ca=1*


----------



## simulated

ok, any ideas when they will make the 8 to 11 switchover? I presume these things are done in the wee morning hours, but with olympic coverage going all night long, will dish have to wait for the olympics to be over?


----------



## Aransay

the chanenl i sw it fta at 7am mexicoc enter summer time witha fortec emrury 2 revier


----------



## simulated

Aransay said:


> the channel I saw it fta at 7am mexico enter summer time with a fortec mercury 2 receiver


Well, it was scrambled when I looked at lunch time, and is still scrambled now.

Common dish network, let us have a look, please?


----------



## Aransay

now sicrmebel but when icheck ina the rmoning it wa fta


----------



## simulated

simulated said:


> ok, any ideas when they will make the 8 to 11 switchover? I presume these things are done in the wee morning hours, but with olympic coverage going all night long, will dish have to wait for the olympics to be over?


ok Bill R wrote in a different thread:

"The load from Echostar 8 (at 110) will start to be transfered to Echostar XI this week and should be completed by Sept 1st according to an email that I got from an "insider"."

Thanks for the answer


----------



## Bill R

As of today transponders 8, 16, and 24 are now alive on Echostar XI. More to come soon.


----------



## James Long

Yep ... those transponders are about 10pts higher than E8 transponders here in the midwest.

I'd be interested in seeing some numbers from AK, HI and PR for 8, 16 and 24 plus a couple more for comparison from that location.


----------



## JohnH

The rest of the channels on E*8 are listed Off Air at 3 AM EDT. 

You may not see it in your EPG until just before it happens.


----------



## James Long

Gotta get it empty to get it moved East! 

Thanks JohnH for the updates ...
(I'm glad they didn't do this change last week during Olympics coverage.)


----------



## Charles Oliva

From Honolulu Vip211 receiver with 30" Dish

Tp.8-68
Tp.16-66
Tp. 24-67

For comparison, Hawaii Spotbeams from E8:

Tp.12-50
Tp.27-61
Tp. 31-64


----------



## James Long

Terrific! The prediction was that E11 ConUS would be as strong as E10 spots - it looks like the prediction came true.


----------



## Charles Oliva

Just noticed something that may be interesting.

All of the HI spotbeamed programming from 110w is normal with one exception, ESPN-HD(5505) is also listed as "Off Air" at 3am ET(9pm HI).
Makes me think they may be doing a test for AK/HI HD subs.
Hmmm.


----------



## redsalmon

James Long said:


> Terrific! The prediction was that E11 ConUS would be as strong as E10 spots - it looks like the prediction came true.


In Ak with a 6' dish at 110 the readings for 8,16, and 24 have all jumped to 80 from an average of 24 before. Spotbeam readings are around 90.

 Maybe now they'll turn on Sci-Fi and USA HD for us.


----------



## James Long

I would not be surprised to see all the 5500's that are also ConUS from 110° moved to the ConUS beams by morning. I'm rooting for AK/HI to get everything they can from 110° - but I wouldn't expect it tomorrow.


----------



## JohnH

Charles Oliva said:


> Just noticed something that may be interesting.
> 
> All of the HI spotbeamed programming from 110w is normal with one exception, ESPN-HD(5505) is also listed as "Off Air" at 3am ET(9pm HI).
> Makes me think they may be doing a test for AK/HI HD subs.
> Hmmm.


looks like the EPG for that one may be coming from 9424.


----------



## Charles Oliva

Guess I'll try to watch SportsCenter at 9pm here and find out.


----------



## redsalmon

James Long said:


> I would not be surprised to see all the 5500's that are also ConUS from 110° moved to the ConUS beams by morning. I'm rooting for AK/HI to get everything they can from 110° - but I wouldn't expect it tomorrow.


The only problem I can see with going from spot beams to conus beams is they will be in mpg2 and not 4. Not picture quality, but DVR storage. Minor problem I realize, just a side happening.

James, a while back you had a map up of the footprint for ciel-2. Is this still available anywhere? When it's in place at 129 will AK be able to receive all the HD that is presently on it?

Thanks


----------



## JohnH

Charles Oliva said:


> Guess I'll try to watch SportsCenter at 9pm here and find out.


FYI: There is no EPG data in the streams for 5505, 5506 and 5507. Of course, the latter 2 would not have Off Air anyway. May be they are testing some conservation in the EPG streams.


----------



## Charles Oliva

Yep 5506 and 5507 only display Now and Next programming followed by "No Info Available".


----------



## JohnH

Well, that sure killed the signals.


----------



## JohnH

Those with a low Tp 3 should be happy now.


----------



## James Long

That was odd ... watching at 3:00am and watching the MUX drop ... then "Locked - Name not acquired" until the new TP was turned on.

TP10 is back 85 instead of 53 ...


----------



## JohnH

Tp 14 is bit low, but seem to be signals on all now.


----------



## Charles Oliva

Wow, that was fast!


----------



## Charles Oliva

Quick look at CONUS signals from 110w in Hawaii all are in the mid 60-low 70 range with a 30" Dish.

Just checked 5505 ESPN-HD still links to Tp.12 Spotbeam.


----------



## JohnH

There have been no table changes.


----------



## James Long

7:15pm ET to 3:30pm ET - ViP 622 DVR 100mi east of Chicago
1: 63 80
2: 78 87
3: 52 82
5: 64 78
6: 70 83
7: 57 65 ???
8: 87
9: 62 76
10: 55 85
11: 63 75
13: 52 65 ???
14: 68 82
15: 64 75
16: 86
17: 52 67 ???
19: 68 79
21: 72 91
22: 74 84
24: 82

Three low ones ...


----------



## JohnH

It's that 8PSK thing.


----------



## Charles Oliva

110w reading 30" Dish

7pm	10pm
tp1	20	66
tp2	23	70
tp3	0	72
tp4	52 spotbeam
tp5	20	64
tp6	18	68
tp7	14	56
tp8	68	66
tp9	21	63
tp10	0	67
tp11	22	66
tp12	51 spotbeam
tp13	12	51
tp14	17	68
tp15	15	64
to16	67	63
tp17	12	52
tp18	0	0
tp19	24	69
tp20	0	0
tp21	23	71
tp22	18	68
tp23	58 spotbeam
tp24	68	67
tp25	66 spotbeam
tp26	0	0
tp27	61 spotbeam
tp29	57 spotbeam
tp31	64 spotbeam


----------



## James Long

Very nice! It looks like it was money well spent!


----------



## Aransay

dveral trnpeosn mvoes is swm actaisons lakin palce


soem tapsens are down for mee


----------



## Aransay

last scan 146 channnels i slso seral oens aheop i a reson fot eh trnfr and later theya re back

1.8 m dishe mxico city


----------



## kstuart

James Long said:


> 7:15pm ET to 3:30pm ET - ViP 622 DVR 100mi east of Chicago
> 1: 63 80
> 2: 78 87
> 3: 52 82
> 5: 64 78
> 6: 70 83
> 7: 57 65 ???
> 8: 87
> 9: 62 76
> 10: 55 85
> 11: 63 75
> 13: 52 65 ???
> 14: 68 82
> 15: 64 75
> 16: 86
> 17: 52 67 ???
> 19: 68 79
> 21: 72 91
> 22: 74 84
> 24: 82
> 
> Three low ones ...


As someone else mentioned, the 3 you marked with " ??? " are all lower because they are 8PSK.

But what accounts for the other variations ?

This would be a good question for the Tech Forum, except that it no longer exists. 

Anyone know anything about that ? All the transponders of a satellite should be the same point in space relative to the receiving dish. It seems hard to believe that a several hundred million dollar electronics package could have that much variation in power output. So what causes it ?


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## JohnH

Measurements taken shortly after a hot switch without any load optimization. 
Also, LNBFs and dish characteristics are not perfect.


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## James Long

Even after the bird warms up there will be variations between transponders ... it doesn't bother me as long as the numbers are generally high.


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## dago2888

A friend of mine received a phone call from this number 8181141414
Supposedly to ask about the impact in signal Strength of E*11 in Mexico City.

Anynody here that knows where that number is from?
They also mentioned to him that they were sending receivers to Mexico City
thxs in advance.


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## spear61

dago2888 said:


> A friend of mine received a phone call from this number 8181141414
> Supposedly to ask about the impact in signal Strength of E*11 in Mexico City.
> 
> Anynody here that knows where that number is from?
> They also mentioned to him that they were sending receivers to Mexico City
> thxs in advance.


probably bootleggers. stay away from them.


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## scooper

818 is in California


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## plarkinjr

dago2888 said:


> A friend of mine received a phone call from this number 8181141414
> Supposedly to ask about the impact in signal Strength of E*11 in Mexico City.
> 
> Anynody here that knows where that number is from?
> They also mentioned to him that they were sending receivers to Mexico City
> thxs in advance.


Probably 'Aransay'.... look at user names higher up in this thread. :lol:


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## phrelin

dago2888 said:


> A friend of mine received a phone call from this number 8181141414
> Supposedly to ask about the impact in signal Strength of E*11 in Mexico City.
> 
> Anynody here that knows where that number is from?
> They also mentioned to him that they were sending receivers to Mexico City
> thxs in advance.


It's my understanding that in the three largest cities of Mexico (Mexico City, Guadalajara and Monterrey), the area code is two digits and phone numbers are eight digits. The area code for Monterrey is 81. However, 818 is a Los Angeles region area code.


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## James Long

dago2888 said:


> A friend of mine received a phone call from this number 8181141414
> Supposedly to ask about the impact in signal Strength of E*11 in Mexico City.
> 
> Anynody here that knows where that number is from?
> They also mentioned to him that they were sending receivers to Mexico City
> thxs in advance.


Whatever it is, it isn't local (to the US).

US phone numbers do not have a 1 as the fourth digit ... that number would be written area code 818 114-1414 ... 114-1414 could not exist as a local number. (Since 7 digit dialing is permitted in 818, dialing that local number would not be possible.)

It is possible that the number is a circuit ID for a trunk or a misprogrammed phone system (setting your own CID can be fun). But the more I look at it the more I think "run away, run away".

phrelin is probably on the right track with it being a Mexican number. Googling the number itself finds this thread (posted an hour ago? - good Google!). Monterrey is confirmed as area code 81.


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## jdonato

From Puerto Rico:
4.5 ft. Dish (just installed, could be better tweaked, haven't got the time to do it yet)
new signal meter

Order is TP -- Signal before (last weeks) -- Signal after (today)

01--34--77
02--25--84
03--14--87
05--35--77
06--25--82
07--0--0 (Receiver's not HD)
08--24--80
09--36--75
10--00--83
11--30--82
13--00-00 (Receiver's not HD)
14--22--82
15--24--80
16--26--80
17--00--00 (Receiver's not HD)
19--34--86
21--41--89
22--23--80
24--26--56

In my HD receiver, with a 6 footer, everythings around the 80s and 90s, except tps 7, 13 and 17 which are around 70's.


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## tkrandall

why does 8PSK lower the transponder strength reading?


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## spear61

phrelin said:


> It's my understanding that in the three largest cities of Mexico (Mexico City, Guadalajara and Monterrey), the area code is two digits and phone numbers are eight digits. The area code for Monterrey is 81. However, 818 is a Los Angeles region area code.


Everthing in Mexico has gone to 10 digit + long distance prefix when required (01 for national long distance, 001 for US long distance). Nationwide rollout was a year or so ago. Depends where you are, you may be able to drop some of the leading numbers when in your local calling area, but all numbers are listed and work with the full 10 digits.


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## JohnH

tkrandall said:


> why does 8PSK lower the transponder strength reading?


Takes more power to do 8PSK modulation. Plus, the levels are a quality indicator.


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## kstuart

JohnH said:


> Takes more power to do 8PSK modulation. Plus, the levels are a quality indicator.


Are you saying that for 8PSK transponders, the Dish singal strength screen is actually indicating what in an FTA receiver would be called the "quality" reading, rather than what an FTA receiver calls a "signal" reading ?


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## g182237

So when does HI/AK start getting more HD channels?


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## JohnH

kstuart said:


> Are you saying that for 8PSK transponders, the Dish singal strength screen is actually indicating what in an FTA receiver would be called the "quality" reading, rather than what an FTA receiver calls a "signal" reading ?


Seems to be somewhat that way.


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## Charles Oliva

g182237 said:


> So when does HI/AK start getting more HD channels?


Part One-E11 goes online at 110w....check
Part Two-Dish converts HD at 110w to Mpeg4....due Sept. 17
Part Three-We'll see come Oct.


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## yihaa75

Mpeg4 on 110, I dont think so, not for a huge while. 

Mpeg4 = Eastern Arc (61.5, 72.7, and 77)
Mpeg2 = Western Arc (110, 119, and 129)

Until they change all the old receivers only EA will be Mpeg4

But who knows


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## JohnH

HD at 110 is going MPEG4 very soon. Perhaps Sept. 17th as Charles states.
SD at 110 will be MPEG2 for quite some time.


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## yihaa75

true!!! thanks for the clarification...


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## rockstx

jdonato said:


> From Puerto Rico:
> 4.5 ft. Dish (just installed, could be better tweaked, haven't got the time to do it yet)
> new signal meter
> 
> Order is TP -- Signal before (last weeks) -- Signal after (today)
> 
> 01--34--77
> 02--25--84
> 03--14--87
> 05--35--77
> 06--25--82
> 07--0--0 (Receiver's not HD)
> 08--24--80
> 09--36--75
> 10--00--83
> 11--30--82
> 13--00-00 (Receiver's not HD)
> 14--22--82
> 15--24--80
> 16--26--80
> 17--00--00 (Receiver's not HD)
> 19--34--86
> 21--41--89
> 22--23--80
> 24--26--56
> 
> In my HD receiver, with a 6 footer, everythings around the 80s and 90s, except tps 7, 13 and 17 which are around 70's.


Are you getting any HD channels from 61.5?


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## jdonato

Yes. Just this weekend changed one of the six footers to get 61.5. I get all 17 premium movie channels that were recently introduced. Plus some Internationals SDs and some of the 9400's that are not included in 110/119. I am not (or have not tried yet to) subscribed to any of the HD national packages available in 61.5. They are not available to PR, although there are some that have been able to get them...


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## space86

The Turbo HD Banner says 150 HD Channels by the end of the year.

Are they even that many HD Channels exist as of today, and how many channels
will Echostar 11 be able to deliver us?


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## rockstx

jdonato said:


> Yes. Just this weekend changed one of the six footers to get 61.5. I get all 17 premium movie channels that were recently introduced. Plus some Internationals SDs and some of the 9400's that are not included in 110/119. I am not (or have not tried yet to) subscribed to any of the HD national packages available in 61.5. They are not available to PR, although there are some that have been able to get them...


There are 2 satellites at 61.5 - E3 and E12. Do you get both in PR? Here in St. Croix, we only get E3...


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## James Long

Echostar 8 discussion: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=139416

It looks like we've reached the end of Echostar 11 discussion in this thread.


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