# Pre 2003 Receiver Upgrade



## toyboxgang (Jan 28, 2008)

Hi, I'm sure that this has been answered somewhere already, but here goes the question again. I received the following email from DTV today.... IMPORTANT INFORMATION
WE WILL NEED TO REPLACE YOUR RECEIVER
Some receivers that are from the year 2003 and older will be phased out in the coming months and will no longer function. Our records indicate that one or more of these receivers are active on your account. If these older receivers are not replaced soon, your receiver will no longer function and will lose access to all programming. In preparation for this broadcast transition, DIRECTV will ship newer-generation receiver(s) directly to you to replace these older receiver(s) FREE of CHARGE* and with NO NEW SERVICE AGREEMENT. 

While I have no issues with the free replacement, what I am curious about is whether or not these new machines will work with the old SD 13" 'pizza' style dish?? I use one of my receivers in my RV and have the dish all set up on my rig. Will this receiver change out require me to also change out my dish on my trailer? I have a mid-generation 3 head dish in my collection, will that work or do I have to go with the 5 head SWM system that is on the side of my house??

Thanks in advance.


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## studechip (Apr 16, 2012)

Whatever they send you will work with the older style dish.


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## ThomasM (Jul 20, 2007)

Actually, most ALL DirecTV receivers can be used with the very first round-style dishes! I'm not sure about the Genie or others that have been released recently, but my R22 works just ducky with my Phase III dish and it would work fine with my very first round dish too!

Back to your replacement, you will probably get a D12 or possibly a D11. These SD receivers will work fine with your round dish also. You just have to go to the satellite section in the menu and configure it for an 18" round dish.


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## Go Beavs (Nov 18, 2008)

The only receivers that won't work with the older (non SWiM) dishes are the H25 and Genie models. You can probably get an upgrade for free if you ask (and want to).


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Go Beavs said:


> The only receivers that won't work with the older (non SWiM) dishes are the H25 and Genie models. You can probably get an upgrade for free if you ask (and want to).


Let me add the RVU clients to this list as well&#8230;


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## Go Beavs (Nov 18, 2008)

peds48 said:


> Let me add the RVU clients to this list as well&#8230;


Well, clients don't work without Genies so...


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## JohnDG (Aug 16, 2006)

ThomasM said:


> Actually, most ALL DirecTV receivers can be used with the very first round-style dishes! I'm not sure about the Genie or others that have been released recently, but my R22 works just ducky with my Phase III dish and it would work fine with my very first round dish too!


Yep. Do note for planning purposes that you cannot get HD on the older dishes.

jdg


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## RACJ2 (Aug 2, 2008)

toyboxgang said:


> Hi, I'm sure that this has been answered somewhere already, but here goes the question again. I received the following email from DTV today.... IMPORTANT INFORMATION
> WE WILL NEED TO REPLACE YOUR RECEIVER...
> ...Thanks in advance.


Yes it has been discussed before and here is a post with all EOL receivers.


Floyd said:


> Here's the list of legacy MPG receivers that are supposed to be replaced:
> 
> MAKE-MODEL
> 
> ...


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## Volatility (May 22, 2010)

DTV is basically trying to weave customers off of the legacy receivers due to broadcast transition and as those were during the early days when they could not provide enough receivers to their growing number of customers so they got with companies like RCA for assistance.


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## Brubear (Nov 14, 2008)

If you tune to ch 325 and get a message that the ird needs to be replaced then there you are. Oddly I had a HNS HIRD D1 that required replacing while the Hughes GAEBO saw programming - go figure.


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## Dude111 (Aug 6, 2010)

Volatility said:


> DTV is basically trying to weave customers off of the legacy receivers due to broadcast transition and as those were during the early days when they could not provide enough receivers to their growing number of customers so they got with companies like RCA for assistance.


Yes and its probably all BS.....

The recievers WILL STILL WORK. What will happen is: THEY WILL PROBABLY KILL YOUR ACCESS CARD ON YOUR CURRENT OLDER BOX TO MAKE YOU THINK IT WONT WORK!!!!!!


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## Brubear (Nov 14, 2008)

Dude111 said:


> Yes and its probably all BS.....
> 
> The recievers WILL STILL WORK. What will happen is: THEY WILL PROBABLY KILL YOUR ACCESS CARD ON YOUR CURRENT OLDER BOX TO MAKE YOU THINK IT WONT WORK!!!!!!


. Yeah they will continue to work. You will lose channels. Killing the access card? I don't think so. The idea that DirecTV would expend money and man hours to get a leased box into your home just to kill your legacy receiver sounds a little extreme.


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## Dude111 (Aug 6, 2010)

Then why dont they just SEND EVERYONE NEW BOXS?????

Why make people CALL THEM AND CONSENT TO AN UPGRADE?? (If there is no commitment changes,no price change,etc)

Because the whole thing is suspicious thats why!!


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Dude111 said:


> Then why dont they just SEND EVERYONE NEW BOXS?????
> 
> Why make people CALL THEM AND CONSENT TO AN UPGRADE?? (If there is no commitment changes,no price change,etc)
> 
> Because the whole thing is suspicious thats why!!


Ahh, hmmm&#8230;.maybe to make them aware&#8230;.


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## Jacob Braun (Oct 6, 2011)

Dude111 said:


> Then why dont they just SEND EVERYONE NEW BOXS?????
> 
> Why make people CALL THEM AND CONSENT TO AN UPGRADE?? (If there is no commitment changes,no price change,etc)
> 
> Because the whole thing is suspicious thats why!!


Yeah I think it would be more suspicious if a customer just found a D12 on their doorstep one day.
You need to take off your tin foil hat, sir.


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## gov (Jan 11, 2013)

Just did one last Saturday. One of my customers had an RCA DRD420 (which I have been urging him to chuck for years) and D* ponied up some free movie channels, and an HDDVR upgrade.

The tech showed up just 1 hour into the window, and I had worked with him before. He took a glance at the ancient dish on a thin piece of conduit that was also holding a big VHF-UHF yagi and a rotator 15 feet further up, then he looked at me and we both busted out laughing. And then I said wait till you see his receiver!

The tech agreed the old 420s weren't all that long lived and was surprised to see one there still plugging away. He was also surprised to see the 420 connected to a larger Sammy LCD panel. 

Not surprising to me, paperwork didn't seem to show a new dish but the tech jumped right onto it with a new s tube mount and he ran new cable to the TV stand.

He also took the 420 with him when it was all done. I asked if it was going to Living History Farms, and he said it was going in the recycle bin at the hub.

Customer loves the HDDVR, he needs an AM21, badly, and I'll take care of that for him next week. Might remount the TV aerial (or replace it with a 2 way setup that seems to work pretty well in this area) on a tripod higher on the roof and delete the rotator.

I've had some other calls about this phaze out, I think most are in RVs.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

JBv said:


> Yeah I think it would be more suspicious if a customer just found a D12 on their doorstep one day.
> You need to take off your tin foil hat, sir.


Much agreed;

Wow ... unless he's just trolling for the fun of it, I really don't understand why Dude111 persists in this senseless rant of totally unfounded accusations of some kind of conspiracy on this issue.

DIRECTV is the one actually losing money in this area giving out free D12s to replace all these obsolete MPG based boxes with no contractual re-commitments. Nor has he ever submitted any evidence to demonstrate how the D12 is inferior to his or any other current MPG box much less that its a piece a "POS" in comparison beyond merely shouting it with CAPS and exclamation marks.


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## tortured (Aug 11, 2010)

HoTat2 said:


> Much agreed;
> 
> Wow ... unless he's just trolling for the fun of it, I really don't understand why Dude111 persists in this senseless rant of totally unfounded accusations of some kind of conspiracy on this issue.
> 
> DIRECTV is the one actually losing money in this area giving out free D12s to replace all these obsolete MPG based boxes with no contractual re-commitments. Nor has he ever submitted any evidence to demonstrate how the D12 is inferior to his or any other current MPG box much less that its a piece a "POS" in comparison beyond merely shouting it with CAPS and exclamation marks.


I don't necessarily agree with his rant but I'm more sympathetic to his underlying issues than you.

I've been a DTV sub for over eleven years and one thing I have learned about DTV is that they don't move a muscle without a profit motive. I don't know whether a D12 receiver is a better functioning unit than my trusty old Hughes E2, but my unit has performed flawlessly over the years and I'm VERY reluctant to give it up, whether I have to lease the new unit or not. Since I don't know anything about the D12 model I won't negatively criticise it without attempting to use it.

What evidence do YOU have that "DTV is the one actually losing money ... giving out free D12s (sic) to replace all these obsolete MPG based boxes..."? It seems to me they have the cash in hand to accomplish this switchout from subscriptions. I know that I pay over $60pm to watch a handful of channels and many of my friends/acquaintances pay considerably more, so I believe it's not a significant cost for them. Also, just because the mpg on my current receiver is not the same, technologically speaking, as whatever system they are now employing doesn't mean it's obsolete; it works well enough for me, thank you.


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## Satelliteracer (Dec 6, 2006)

Dude111 said:


> Then why dont they just SEND EVERYONE NEW BOXS?????
> 
> Why make people CALL THEM AND CONSENT TO AN UPGRADE?? (If there is no commitment changes,no price change,etc)
> 
> Because the whole thing is suspicious thats why!!


A couple of reasons why.

1) Because some of these boxes are owned we have to make sure the customer knows the replacement will be leased. There is no net change to the customer's bill as a result, but that has to be disclosed to the customer. If boxes were just sent, that affirmative conversation couldn't happen.
2) If you just send a box, what is no one is there to get it? Or it is delivered on the porch and it is stolen, etc. Or if a box just happened to be there and a customer would want to know why its there
3) For some customers this is their vacation home and they aren't there, sometimes for months
4) It gives some customers the opportunity to just discontinue that older receiver. For example, say a customer has 4 receivers on their account and one of them fits this description and it's in the kids room or the garage and rarely, if ever used. Rather than paying for a receiver to be sent out, pay for shipping, etc, etc we allow the customer to say they actually want it replaced because they might instead say that old receiver and tv there don't use much or ever anymore so just take it off the account.

Those are some of the obvious reasons, but there are others.

The new receivers deliver a better experience for customers with the newer generation receivers...they are faster, can display more channels, have interactivity, etc, etc. These legacy receivers go back to 1994 in a day when local channels weren't offered on Directv, far far fewer channels even existed, no interactivity, etc. That older guide uses up separate bandwidth and operates on hardware that is quite dated (no receiver since 2003 uses that guide). That guide has gone beyond it's intended life and because there are so few of these receivers left out there the time to reclaim that bandwidth to be used for other things will be utilized. It also allows for better use of resources at the broadcast centers so they only have to monitor one guide that serves 100% of customers rather than two guides that serve 99% and 1% respectively. There are a myriad of other reasons, but those are some of the highlights.


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## Satelliteracer (Dec 6, 2006)

Dude111 said:


> Yes and its probably all BS.....
> 
> The recievers WILL STILL WORK. What will happen is: THEY WILL PROBABLY KILL YOUR ACCESS CARD ON YOUR CURRENT OLDER BOX TO MAKE YOU THINK IT WONT WORK!!!!!!


In the near future, the old guide will be shut down and that will prevent any of the channels from working on those boxes that use that guide.


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## goinsleeper (May 23, 2012)

tortured said:


> What evidence do YOU have that "DTV is the one actually losing money ... giving out free D12s (sic) to replace all these obsolete MPG based boxes..."? It seems to me they have the cash in hand to accomplish this switchout from subscriptions.


Whether they can afford it or not isn't really the point. It would be bad business practice to make extra expenditures if not necessary.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

It only costs money to provide "new" receivers to people in exchange for their obsolete receivers if Directv has to pay to manufacture actual new receivers as a result. Are they still manufacturing SD receivers? I'd personally be a bit surprised if they were.

I would think there would be enough D1x receivers coming back from people swapping them out when they upgrade to HD and/or Genie that they have enough on hand to do this. That may be why they aren't pushing everyone nationwide to upgrade all at once with a single national deadline, but doing it in phases over time. They know the rates at which the D1x receivers are coming back from these upgrades, so they can plan for that when doing the MPG upgrades.

Even assuming it costs Directv money (aside from the shipping and occasional lost customer who is upset they can't keep their 15 year old receiver) perhaps it will save them money in the long run not having to support the old guide. I don't know what that costs, but transponder bandwidth certainly isn't free. There's no reason for them to do it just to piss people off, there must be a business case for doing so. Either simple profit/loss or other improvements that don't necessarily show up on the balance sheet like no longer having to support receivers without a RID.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

tortured said:


> > I don't necessarily agree with his rant but I'm more sympathetic to his underlying issues than you.
> >
> > I've been a DTV sub for over eleven years and one thing I have learned about DTV is that they don't move a muscle without a profit motive.
> 
> ...


Fair enough, which is all I would ask Dude111 to do as well.



> ... What evidence do YOU have that "DTV is the one actually losing money ... giving out free D12s (sic) to replace all these obsolete MPG based boxes..."? It seems to me they have the cash in hand to accomplish this switchout from subscriptions. I know that I pay over $60pm to watch a handful of channels and many of my friends/acquaintances pay considerably more, so I believe it's not a significant cost for them


I don't hold that DIRECTV does not have the money to afford this, but that they still have to give out free D12s without charging some or all of the $69.00 (from the last time I checked) lease fee. And that is a defacto loss of money they could have otherwise charged.



> ... Also, just because the mpg on my current receiver is not the same, technologically speaking, as whatever system they are now employing doesn't mean it's obsolete; it works well enough for me, thank you.


But that doesn't have to mean DIRECTV is wrong for upgrading all its subscribers to a much better APG system, because a lesser capable and now technologically obsolete guide system is personally good enough for you.


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## Volatility (May 22, 2010)

peds48 said:


> Ahh, hmmm&#8230;.maybe to make them aware&#8230;.


Well said peds, well said.


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## goinsleeper (May 23, 2012)

peds48 said:


> Ahh, hmmm&#8230;.maybe to make them aware&#8230;.


Not to mention making sure the address is correct and not sending the receivers to a non-existing address.


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## tortured (Aug 11, 2010)

goinsleeper said:


> Whether they can afford it or not isn't really the point. It would be bad business practice to make extra expenditures if not necessary.


So you're saying Dude 111 is paranoid but DirecTV is engaged in a bad business practice by switching D12's for older receivers.

Ok.


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## Volatility (May 22, 2010)

tortured said:


> So you're saying Dude 111 is paranoid but DirecTV is engaged in a bad business practice by switching D12's for older receivers.
> 
> Ok.


A standard DirecTV reciever is a standard DirecTV reciever. How is it bad practice they give you an older reciever that does the exact same thing the D12 does? It isn't. Also the word paranoid was never used so yay for adding in words. They mail out whatever is in the warehouse at the time. Now if you were talking about DVRs were some models have a larger HD than another then you may have had a point.


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## goinsleeper (May 23, 2012)

tortured said:


> So you're saying Dude 111 is paranoid but DirecTV is engaged in a bad business practice by switching D12's for older receivers.
> 
> Ok.


No, I was referencing they wouldn't be swapping these if it wasn't something they need to do. No intelligent company is going to add extra expenditures without a valid reason to do so.


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## racerbug (May 27, 2013)

I have a Sony SAT-1 in my moterhome, the dish is a Datron. When you park hit the button and the dish finds the sat. My problem is that they sent me a D12-100 and it has no way to plug into the dish.Is their another box available?


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

Have you tried a USB to RS232 converter? It has been a couple of years, but I do recall this question coming up when they first released the D11/D12 series of receivers. I know they support serial communications, but it would take some searching to find the details.


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## ThomasM (Jul 20, 2007)

carl6 said:


> Have you tried a USB to RS232 converter? It has been a couple of years, but I do recall this question coming up when they first released the D11/D12 series of receivers. I know they support serial communications, but it would take some searching to find the details.


It's doubtful that the USB port on the D12 will be compatible with his dish. There are publications from DirecTV detailing how the serial communications port on the SD receivers operates. Look around DBSTALK for them.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Shouldn't Directv be responsible for making this right for him? Presumably they didn't know about his special requirements. Hopefully if he called and explained it to them, they'd be willing to either swap the D12 for a D10 (which I take it has the serial port he needs?) or provide him whatever USB to serial type solution would be necessary for his dish to work with the D12.

At some point his dish pointing solution may be obsolete as far as compatibility with supported Directv receivers, but if a D10 will work, that's not yet the case, and if USB can be made to work, he could even use HD receivers with his dish - though only be able to pick up SD signals with it, of course.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

these systems were supposed to be use with the M10 receiver, do not know if it is still available


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## kushnir (Jun 4, 2013)

Any Idea how they will handle exchange since I have a Sony that has serial output for steering RV antenna?


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Newer receivers have USB ports, and there are USB/serial converters known to work with them. You could contact the manufacturer of your TV dish to see what your options are for using receivers with USB ports.


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## kushnir (Jun 4, 2013)

I emailed Direct TV and this is the response I got.

_Thank you for your recent correspondence.

The replacement receiver will work with your RV antenna; however, it requires a low-speed data port adapter. You can purchase these online at amazon.com and universalpart.com just to name a few. You can easily find these at stores or online by searching for an RS232 to USB adapter.

If you forward your account information I would be more than happy to issue a $25.00 credit towards the purchase of the cable.

Sincerely,

Chad
DIRECTV Office of the President_

SO it appears that we can get a replacement that will work, keep our fingers crossed


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## andy A (Sep 14, 2006)

Got the email the other day about this and finally called today. What I find odd is that I actually have 2 receivers on my account that are on the list supplied, one a Hughes GAEB0 and the other a Hughes GCEB0A, but at this time they are saying that the only one on my account that is eligible for replacement is the GAEB0. To me that is strange because the GCEB0A is an identical box with just a few different features. Not a big deal at this point but hope it gets straightened out at some point.


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

The GCEB0A has the advanced program guide so it's not affected by the MPG shutdown.


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## andy A (Sep 14, 2006)

KyL416 said:


> The GCEB0A has the advanced program guide so it's not affected by the MPG shutdown.


Did not know that, thought they were both APG.


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## jdspencer (Nov 8, 2003)

You didn't list the Sony SAT-T60 TiVo. :sure:


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## garyhalstead (Feb 24, 2008)

I have not seen Directv post a date as to when a receiver will be obsolete or not work. Does anyone know? It could be another year??


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

garyhalstead said:


> I have not seen Directv post a date as to when a receiver will be obsolete or not work. Does anyone know? It could be another year??


Probably after we go a few months without seeing threads like this pop up, meaning that everyone who has such a receiver has already been notified


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## ThomasM (Jul 20, 2007)

garyhalstead said:


> I have not seen Directv post a date as to when a receiver will be obsolete or not work. Does anyone know? It could be another year??


I would think that prior to "pulling the switch" on the MPG they will make every effort to contact every sub who still is being billed for an MPG box. Knowing how some people ignore email and even snail mail letters, I'm sure they will have CSR's phone the affected subs and let them know exactly what is happening. Maybe DTV will program the MPG to receive only one channel which has a slide telling the sub what is going on. Who knows?


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## Satelliteracer (Dec 6, 2006)

This is coming to a conclusion here by the end of this month. All customers have been notified for the past 6 to 9 months (letters, emails, phone calls, etc) as well as on screen messaging that receivers needed to be replaced. Final notifications with turnoff dates were recently sent out. Just an update for those of you that still have an active receiver as programming will start to come down very soon.


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## LynnW (Jul 9, 2012)

It is coming to an end tomorrow, Dec 13th. I haven't updated yet because I wanted to see what happens. I got an e-mail today saying that I had suspended my account.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

That's weird. Do you only have old boxes. Wonder why they suspended the account instead of just send you a message on screen that says we told you to upgrade!


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## LynnW (Jul 9, 2012)

Oh, I've been getting e-mails and on screen messages for months. I just wanted to see what happens when the old guide is shut off.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

SO you now have to un suspend your entire account? That sucks...


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## LynnW (Jul 9, 2012)

I'm going to be in and out for the next few weeks. May as well have the account suspended. I don't know when I would be available for delivery of the replacement receiver and I don't want it left on the porch. As of 8:52 AM CST, the old receiver is still working.


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## Satelliteracer (Dec 6, 2006)

Customers with ONLY MPG receivers were put in suspend so that they aren't charged for programming they no longer can receive. Since suspend status lasts for 6 months, it allows the customer to still exchange the receiver(s) for free in the next 6 months. This was done to protect the customer's options. Also, some customers have vacation homes, are on military leave, etc, and despite being notified for months, were unable to make the receiver exchange because of their situation. Thus, the suspend status buys them more time without incurring any charges.

For customers that have an MPG receiver but also regular receivers, they will start to see channels coming out of the guide over the course of the next few weeks until they are all gone by the end of the year.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Why are they dropping channels in small numbers at a time instead of just cutting off the MPG guide entirely on a certain date?


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

I'll bet it's not so easy to drop them. I'm guessing each has to be done individually. 

And that makes sense on the suspended account.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

I guess I think of the "MPG guide" as a data stream carried on one or more transponders, which the MPG guide receivers access, and figured they could simply turn it off, and those receivers would no longer be capable of showing a guide.

Perhaps there also some MPG related data carried per channel, or per transponder (i.e. as an index for all the channels contained in that transponder) that is getting cleaned up first?


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