# Zebras did a bad job at the Super Bowl



## neljtorres (Jul 15, 2004)

:grin: Those zebras last night made a lot of bad calls, That Darrell Jackson pass interference, The holding play on the Jeremy Stevens play, The Big Ben Touchdown, The NFL have to do something with these clowns. Make them full time referee take out the clowns.!


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## tomcrown1 (Jan 16, 2006)

No take out the NFL


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Definitely some poor calls made during the game. Seattle sure got a lot of tough calls at very critical times. It seemed that Pitt was a team of destiny. Lot of Seahawks passes just out of bounds. The Pitt quarterback looked horrible and that wounded duck that got caught... Jeez things just went Pitts way for most of the game and combined with some questionable calls made by the refs at very key points of the game spelled victory for Pitt and disappointed for the Seahawks. 

Overall I found both the game and the commercials very mediocre.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I wanted Pittsburgh to win, but I can't feel 100% certain that they did.

There were several phantom calls during the game that I think affected the final score.

Seattle was robbed of an early touchdown, and Pittsburgh didn't really score their first touchdown. If I extrapolate, then the 21-10 score probably should have been 17-14 and that makes a huge difference on how Seattle's last drive played out since a field goal could have tied for overtime, which I think would have been fair.

The only reason I don't feel completely bad or that Seattle was robbed of a win... is because their dropped-passes-plague from last year resurfaced again... and even with all the bad calls, Seattle could still have won if they just caught a few more balls that Hasselbeck was throwing on target.

So while I agree that the officials were watching a different game than I was... I can't completely blame them for Seattle's loss.


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## John W (Dec 20, 2005)

neljtorres said:


> :grin: Those zebras last night made a lot of bad calls, That Darrell Jackson pass interference, The holding play on the Jeremy Stevens play, The Big Ben Touchdown, The NFL have to do something with these clowns. Make them full time referee take out the clowns.!


I've heard the rationale regarding not being full time is to avoid gambling influence on someone who's only job is refereeing.But last night was worse than pro wrestling.


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

I wonder if any of you guys were watching the same game I was? All the calls ended up being correct except the one which was reversed on the field. The Pittsburgh "questionable" TD was a TD. With the goal-line reversae angle camera there was no question that was a TD. The ball just has to break the plane. Not the whole ball either, just a stitch!

I thought overall the zebras did a decent job calling a tough game!

See ya
Tony


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## juan ellitinez (Jan 31, 2003)

TNGTony said:


> I wonder if any of you guys were watching the same game I was? All the calls ended up being correct except the one which was reversed on the field. The Pittsburgh "questionable" TD was a TD. With the goal-line reversae angle camera there was no question that was a TD. The ball just has to break the plane. Not the whole ball either, just a stitch!
> 
> I thought overall the zebras did a decent job calling a tough game!
> 
> ...


 It hit the ground first


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Have to agree HdMe with the dropped passes. If I recall one guy (Stevens) was responsible for 3 of them. Mind you one would have been a tough call, but still should have been pulled down. This guy did score the only seahawk touchdown though. Also, Seattle forget what got them here. Alexander. They did not use him enough... THe Seahawks just did not do enough things right to compensate for the poor calls.


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## tomcrown1 (Jan 16, 2006)

Holgram blew the game for seattle with his poor coaching(game calling) Pittsburgh offensive (Raiders new head coach 2007 SUPERBOWL CHAMPS RAIDERS) called a great game!!!


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I also like, and think it is interesting, that Seattle players and coaches did NOT complain about the officiating. I think they realized there were blown calls, but that Seattle still had a chance to win and made enough mistakes on their own.

Perhaps the better team did still win the game... but I do sincerely hope the NFL gets a handle on the officiating problems. This year, playoffs included leading up to the SuperBowl, was one of the worst in recent memory. And I really don't like some of the "needs evidence to overturn" copouts on questionable calls when IF the call had been the other way that wouldn't have been overturned either. Replay needs some better work, and officials need some better work as well.

There were lots of games during the season, including the Hasselbeck "fumble" yesterday that were called wrong, and eventually corrected via replay via challenge from a coach... but it shouldn't come to a challenge on a call like that where supposedly officials are right there on the field to see calls like that.

All-in-all, not one of the best played or officiated games.... I'm glad for Pittsburgh winning... but I really wish it was more decisive OR one of those last-team-with-the-ball years where you can feel like the right team won even if it wasn't your team. Case-in-point, two years ago when New England beat Carolina... It was a close game, and Carolina didn't lost but was beaten on a final drive... Another minute on the clock and maybe they have time to get a tying field goal... so even though my team didn't win that year, I feel like the right team did win.

This year we are all left with questions.


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

juan ellitinez said:


> It hit the ground first


So you WERE watchig a different game than I! It was clear that the ball broke the plane well before he hit the ground. It only broke the plane but I guess anyone who was rooting for Seattle is blind to that.

See ya
Tony


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## juan ellitinez (Jan 31, 2003)

TNGTony said:


> So you WERE watchig a different game than I! It was clear that the ball broke the plane well before he hit the ground. It only broke the plane but I guess anyone who was rooting for Seattle is blind to that.
> 
> See ya
> Tony


no some of were hoping for a field goal instead of a touchdown for "other" reasons


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

TNGTony said:


> So you WERE watchig a different game than I! It was clear that the ball broke the plane well before he hit the ground. It only broke the plane but I guess anyone who was rooting for Seattle is blind to that.
> 
> See ya
> Tony


Actually I was playing Enhanced TV at the same time (ABC play with us Applet). Of all the people watching, it was about a 50/50 split by the viewers if the ball crossed the goal line. I was rooting for Seahawks, but really did not care who one. Brother in law was rooting for Pitt and both of us felt it did not cross the front of the white strip. However, it was close and my guess is Pitt would most likely would have scored. From the responses on EnhancedTV throughout the game it was obvious there were more Pitt supporters playing ETV but there still was a 50/50 split if the call should be reversed.

The calls I thought were shady was the offensive pass interference in the end zone and a critical holding call. One of the holding calls i felt was a good call It was a take down for sure) and the other one resulted in a seahawk receiver caughting the ball on the 3 yard line was bad. My brother-in-law felt the same way.

The endzone offense pass interference we both felt was totally blown. Close to 70% from ETV also felt the endzone call was shady at best.

So.... I was also watching the same game Tony and from my seat in front of my 60" TV, my brother-in-law, myself, and people playing ETV at a minimum felt the endzone call was botched. No one knows what the outcome would have been had those plays turned out differently. It is just not Seahawk fans that felt some critical calls were blown.

I will say that the Seahawks also did a number of things wrong that contributed to their loss for sure. Two missed fieldgoals and some poor coaching. However I personally field the offensive Pass interference and the offensive holding were two huge miss-calls with major ramifications on the game.

Other than that.. the game was slow and so was the commercials. Oh.. and Half time. Yikes!!!!


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I bet all fans can agree that Halftime was lacking!

And I even like the Rolling Stones too.


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## SamC (Jan 20, 2003)

The sports talk radio crowd has been singing the "make the refs full time" mantra for a while. 

Lets review. Until a few years ago, NFL ref was a part time job. Most refs were full time teachers, salesmen, executives, and other jobs that could be left behind for 20+ weekends in a row. This was because they were selected out from top college refs, and college refing is manned by similar people. Since football is played on weekends only (almost) this was a good system, unlike the other sports where games are played throughout the week. They made good money. Not full time pay, but good money for part time work.

Then the refs got a union and a big pay raise. No it, really, is almost a full-time job, pay wise.

Now we go to full-time. So some mid-career teacher or such has to make a choice to walk away from his career to move up to NFL ref. And if he does, and doesn't make it? So he will, like the baseball umpires' union, work for some system that will protect him in his job. So we will have fat and lazy old men like the baseball umps. That will make things better?


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## JM Anthony (Nov 16, 2003)

Horsepucky. The 'hawks got jobbed. That was some of the worst officiating I've seen in years. CS calls stopped Seattle's momentum cold on 3 drives. Seattle contributed to the problem with some dropped balls, but the refs clearly cost them the game. Holmgren had some comments on the poor officiating when he got home. Hopefully we'll keep the team pretty much in tact for next year. 

Paul Allen is doing a great job of getting the right players together with a good coaching staff. He absoluely loves the way the fans have responded to the team this year. 

John


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## neljtorres (Jul 15, 2004)

TNGTony said:


> So you WERE watchig a different game than I! It was clear that the ball broke the plane well before he hit the ground. It only broke the plane but I guess anyone who was rooting for Seattle is blind to that.
> 
> See ya
> Tony


Hi Tony
 I watch the game and I was born and raised in Philly I am a Eagles fan.
I have a 721 man a I watch that play a couple of times in slow motion, 
and did you hear what Big Ben said last night on Letterman!!!
That was not a touchdown!
That ball never broke the plane!


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

I saw what I saw more than just a few times. The refs agreed with me, TWICE!

See ya
Tony


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## juan ellitinez (Jan 31, 2003)

TNGTony said:


> I saw what I saw more than just a few times. The refs agreed with me, TWICE!
> 
> See ya
> Tony


 Guess who disagree's with you now!!! http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/wcStory?contentId=5311588

*Ben Roethlisberger told David Letterman on Monday night that he didn't think he scored on a controversial goal-line dive in the second quarter of Super Bowl XL that put the Steelers ahead for good. "I told Coach, 'I don't think I got in,'" Roethlisberger told *


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I like it when the players are honest... It's not up to the player to make the call, so there's no shame in Ben being honest. I suspect he thought they would be getting a 4th down, and at the inches line would be going for it again most likely and may very well have still gotten a touchdown anyway.

I still maintain two truths about the game Sunday... 

1. Seattle was robbed on a couple of plays that cost them points and gave points to Pittsburgh, as well as some plays that stalled drives.

2. Seattle had dropped passes and an interception and 2 missed field goals and 2 end-of half horrible clock management situations that also cost them points and stalled drives.

I honestly can't say which hurt them more... because even with the ref bad calls, Seattle still had several chances to be in the lead and win the game... so it isn't like Seattle can walk away saying "we played our best and the refs stole it"... because both truths are there, and Seattle could very well have won the game even with the bad calls... just like Pittsburgh won the game against Indy where they were the victim of a bad call (the interception reversal that allowed Indy to get a late touchdown and narrow the gap). If Pitt had lost that game due to the late Bettis fumble... I would say the same thing I'm saying now, that they did get robbed of a call but they also robbed themselves too.

I do hope they work on the officiating though, because no one can argue that the officiating got better this year even if you like the team that won.


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## tsmacro (Apr 28, 2005)

I'm not going to say the officiating actually made or broke the game for either team. However the fact that people are talking about the refs is proof enough that they didn't do their job well. In a well officiated game no one remembers the refs at all, which is how it should be.


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## djlong (Jul 8, 2002)

Oddly enough, by the rules, the Big Ben touchdown was the right call.

Now, looking at the reverse angle, I'm not sure at all that the ball 'broke the plane'. Howver, that's IMMATERIAL.

I believe the rules concerning the challenge/review process state that the replay *has* to be *conclusive* in order to overturn the call.

So - if the ref says 'touchdown', because the replay isn't clear-cut, it's still a touchdown.

If the ref had said NO touchdown, the replay would still have the call on the field stand as-is.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

djlong said:


> Oddly enough, by the rules, the Big Ben touchdown was the right call.
> 
> Now, looking at the reverse angle, I'm not sure at all that the ball 'broke the plane'. Howver, that's IMMATERIAL.
> 
> ...


Which is why there is a problem with the officials... if they don't get the call right on the field, many cases like this can't be reversed via replay so not only is the call bad but replay is rendered ineffectual.

I also continue to be confused as to why there are not more cameras at certain parts of the field to give more options for the replay team. If they aren't going to get better angles than they had in real-time, it also makes replay less useful.

Even when the team I'm rooting for wins, I really don't feel as good about it if there are bad calls that help my team. I'd rather my team lose a clean game than win a foul one.


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## neljtorres (Jul 15, 2004)

This season the referees have been blowing calls all season long. This season was terrible for the zebras. I have been a NFL for more than 20 years, but this year was terrible. Solution Full Time Zebras.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

neljtorres said:


> This season the referees have been blowing calls all season long. This season was terrible for the zebras. I have been a NFL for more than 20 years, but this year was terrible. Solution Full Time Zebras.


That's the one thing I don't think will fix the problem... Think about it this way... if you have a bunch of part-time help working for you, and they aren't doing their job correctly... do you think hiring them full time is the answer?

The answer is to hire better qualified people and train them better during the off-season. I don't think hiring them full time automatically makes them any better officials. There are some great officials, even this year, that are part time.


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## JM Anthony (Nov 16, 2003)

HDMe said:


> . . . The answer is to hire better qualified people and train them better during the off-season. I don't think hiring them full time automatically makes them any better officials. There are some great officials, even this year, that are part time.


I know one of the NFL officials, a guy named Tom Sifferman, who worked back to back Super Bowls. He is extremely well qualified and takes his officiating very seriously. I think a good share of the problem is that the crew that works the Super Bowl doesn't regularly work together. Officiating is every bit a team activity as the game itself. While there are certain prescribed mechanics for where you should be to cover certain situations, if you don't work with the other members of your crew, you don't know their individual tendencies and how that affects where they will be and how they'll cover the play and players.

The offensive pass interference call against the Hawks that cost them a TD is a great example. There was clearly contact between the two players, but was it incidental and didn't affect the defensive player or were they put at a disadvantage that affected the outcome of the play?? If you watched the replays, you'd notice that the Steeler's player wasn't affected by the contact. I've got to believe one of the other members of the crew should have confered with the official who made the call, shared with him that information, and encouraged him to eat the flag. Tough to do?? Not really. At that level the officials need to ensure the game is called correctly not that one of their buddies' egos gets tweaked.

John


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Agreed about teams... I thought some of the past SuperBowls were officiated by the best team, rather than an all-star group of officials.

It does seem a bit odd to throw together a group of guys, even if they are good, who aren't used to working together.

Think about the NBA "Dream Team" of Jordan and Magic and Bird and the gang... the very first game they played, they lost by 20 to a team of college kids! Because even though they were the NBA best, they weren't used to working together... and that loss taught them a good lesson that forged what really became the Dream Team that year and romped through the Olympics.

Keeping teams of officials together seems like a good idea to me too.

For the record... I bet if you ask any official, they would all say that they don't want to decide the game and they don't want to make mistakes. I know ones in the past who have been singled out for game-changing historical errors have really seemed bothered many years after the fact... so it isn't like these guys screw up on purpose, its just that their mistakes are videotaped and broadcast live!


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