# Will DTV Upgrade SWM So PI's Aren't Needed?



## CraigerM (Apr 15, 2014)

One thing I don't get about their SWM system is it promoting using existing cabling in the home and a single wire going to the receiver. However, how is SWM a single wire when one coax goes into the PI and the other comes out the PI into the HD DVR/Receiver?


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Single wire to the receivers and to the dish, not a single piece of coax. If that was the case, you'd be limited to one receiver.


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## HarleyD (Aug 31, 2006)

Depending on your configuration you may never see the PI and have a single wire coming from your wall to the receiver.

My SWM16 is in the attic, as are the PI and splitters. Since it was added to an existing install that used the original 5LNB Slimline and WB68 Zinwell multiswitch with all the cables already run to the attic, the SWM and PI were installed in place of the WB68. My PI goes to the power port on the SWM, not in line with a receiver.

I now have a true "single wire" for the satellite going to each receiver. And as a bonus since there were already at least two wires going to each DVR (there were three wires in the family room for the HR20 to support OTA as well) I was able to re-purpose the second wire for OTA. I put in a distribution amp for my deep fringe antenna and added AM21s to each DVR (except the HR20)


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## Bill Broderick (Aug 25, 2006)

As others have stated, "Single Wire" refers to a single wire to each receiver. Previously, there needed to be a separate wire for each tuner. So, all DVR's needed two wires. If they were still on the old system, a Genie would require 5 coax cables connected to it.

You really love complaining about things that you don't understand, don't you?


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## CraigerM (Apr 15, 2014)

Bill Broderick said:


> As others have stated, "Single Wire" refers to a single wire to each receiver. Previously, there needed to be a separate wire for each tuner. So, all DVR's needed two wires. If they were still on the old system, a Genie would require 5 coax cables connected to it.
> 
> You really love complaining about things that you don't understand, don't you?


How I am complaining when I am just curious as to how installations work. I like DTV I was just offering suggestions for easier installation setups.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

In order to do what you want, receivers would have to provide power to the LNB like they used to. That means all receivers would require larger power supplies, in case they were the only receiver in use. Directv wanted receivers to have smaller power supplies so they could make them external - so if the power supply fails the brick can be swapped, rather than having to swap the receiver (which the customer isn't too fond of if it is a Genie with hundreds of hours of recordings on it)


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## CraigerM (Apr 15, 2014)

slice1900 said:


> In order to do what you want, receivers would have to provide power to the LNB like they used to. That means all receivers would require larger power supplies, in case they were the only receiver in use. Directv wanted receivers to have smaller power supplies so they could make them external - so if the power supply fails the brick can be swapped, rather than having to swap the receiver (which the customer isn't too fond of if it is a Genie with hundreds of hours of recordings on it)


I get it now thanks for the explanation. Why can't DTV have small power supply's that would provide a lot of power to the LNB and then you wouldn't need a PI?


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Why are you so against the power supply? I haven't seen mine in years.


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## CraigerM (Apr 15, 2014)

sigma1914 said:


> Why are you so against the power supply? I haven't seen mine in years.


I just find it strange having two power supplies for one box.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

CraigerM said:


> I just find it strange having two power supplies for one box.


How do you have 2 power supply's

Sent from my Galaxy S5


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## CraigerM (Apr 15, 2014)

damondlt said:


> How do you have 2 power supply's
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy S5


I don't have SWM I was just curious incase I ever had to upgrade to it about needing the PI and Power Supply. Isn't the PI an Supply the same thing? as Slice1900 explained it? Or am I reading him wrong?

I am also a less wires clutter type of person.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

The power supply for the swm 8 /16 or swm lnb is one coax that plugs into a power inserter which is plugged into a wall outlet which powers the swm system. 

you still only have one wire from the Swm to the receivers. 
There are other ways to power the swm too through the swim spliters and the power inserter can also feed a receiver. 

I prefer to run my power supply straight from power inserter to my swm16. 

Sent from my Galaxy S5


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

Think of it this way, each piece of equipment needs a power supply. A receiver is a piece of equipment. A DVR is a piece of equipment. An LNB is a piece of equipment. All have internal electronics that need power. In the past, DirecTV put a larger power supply in the receiver which could also power the LNB. Now they only make the power supply in each receiver sufficient to run the receiver, because most receivers do not power a dish (they are a part of a multi-receiver household with only one dish). So it is more efficient, and uses less power, for the consumer. They have also started putting the power supply outside the receiver, allowing the receiver to be smaller and require less cooling, and also allowing the power supply alone to be replaced should it fail, allowing the receiver (DVR in particular) to be retained with its recordings.


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## lugnutathome (Apr 13, 2009)

I'm not 100% certain a "PI" is needed in SOME installations in reality. In a more normal install it could be technically called a power supply but in that context it powers both the SWM and the dish LNBs.

I have 2 SWM16s that run off of four two way splitters that have been fed signal thru a slope equalizer (flattens signals out to known levels and slope), a signal amplifier (boosts signals with proper strength and slope), and a polarity locker (locks all the LNBs ON (this last job is a normal function of the SWM but in this context it means the LNBs are powered separate of the SWM preserving its power for signal processing)). I have 150 foot long down-leads from the dish to my SWM implementation.

I use two power supplies (not inline inserters) for this. One powers the equalizer/amp/locker and the other the two SWMs (these are Sonora Design 2 amp 24V regulated and not the standard 29V 1.2(4?) Amp unregulated inserters used by the Direct TV installers).

The 16s have a power in port and I have a power passing (both sides) splitter that send the power from from the PS to both SWMs. The locker/amp/equalizer has their own PS this enables the automatic gain functionality in the SWMs that aren't now having to power the LNBs as well.

The HAS to be power to both the LNBs and to the SWMs for AGC (Automatic Gain Control) for the system to work.

In my case both power bricks are power supplies (they don't have a signal pass thru provision) but they do insert the power in the proper places to services the modules of my implementation.

Don "hopefully I didn't take you off in the wrong direction here" Bolton



CraigerM said:


> I get it now thanks for the explanation. Why can't DTV have small power supply's that would provide a lot of power to the LNB and then you wouldn't need a PI?


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

CraigerM said:


> I just find it strange having two power supplies for one box.


That one box comes with an LNB which needs power as well, hence the two power supplies. When you bought your PC and connected the monitor, did you complain about two power supplies, one for TV and one for the monitor?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

carl6 said:


> In the past, DirecTV put a larger power supply in the receiver which could also power the LNB. Now they only make the power supply in each receiver sufficient to run the receiver, because most receivers do not power a dish.


Not 100% accurate
Maybe the H25 and HR34/44 can't power the Dish since they are swm only. 
BUT
Slimline 3 and 5 non swm lnbs are powered just fine with using HR20,21,22,23,24, 
H20,21,23,24
R15, 16, 22
D10,11,12
and a WB68 multiswitch all work without power supply's. 
Just they require a separate coax for every tuner.
And some require BBC's .
Also no MRV.

Sent from my Galaxy S5


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## CraigerM (Apr 15, 2014)

carl6 said:


> Think of it this way, each piece of equipment needs a power supply. A receiver is a piece of equipment. A DVR is a piece of equipment. An LNB is a piece of equipment. All have internal electronics that need power. In the past, DirecTV put a larger power supply in the receiver which could also power the LNB. Now they only make the power supply in each receiver sufficient to run the receiver, because most receivers do not power a dish (they are a part of a multi-receiver household with only one dish). So it is more efficient, and uses less power, for the consumer. They have also started putting the power supply outside the receiver, allowing the receiver to be smaller and require less cooling, and also allowing the power supply alone to be replaced should it fail, allowing the receiver (DVR in particular) to be retained with its recordings.Coul


Couldn't DTV make an external power supply that is more efficient and power the LNB?


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

Someone please post a wiring diagram for him. 

Sent from my Galaxy S5


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## CraigerM (Apr 15, 2014)

peds48 said:


> That one box comes with an LNB which needs power as well, hence the two power supplies. When you bought your PC and connected the monitor, did you complain about two power supplies, one for TV and one for the monitor?
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I have a laptop. All in one pc's have only one power cord.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

CraigerM said:


> I have a laptop. All in one pc's have only one power cord.


All swm multiswitches have only one power cord too.

Sent from my Galaxy S5


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

CraigerM said:


> I have a laptop. All in one pc's have only one power cord.


how about your microwave and coffee maker lol.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## dennisj00 (Sep 27, 2007)

It doesn't matter what YOU have. Each device requires a PS.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

dennisj00 said:


> It doesn't matter what YOU have. Each device requires a PS.


or he can hand crank it.....

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## CraigerM (Apr 15, 2014)

Sorry I asked this question.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

As I said on the other thread, sometimes there is no need to reinvent the wheel


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

To answer the question in the title...

No.


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## CraigerM (Apr 15, 2014)

peds48 said:


> As I said on the other thread, sometimes there is no need to reinvent the wheel
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Is their a difference between reinventing the wheel and innovation?


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

CraigerM said:


> I have a laptop. All in one pc's have only one power cord.


Can your PC power your wireless router and cable/DSL modem?

Sent from my iPad using DBSTalk


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## CraigerM (Apr 15, 2014)

Stuart Sweet said:


> To answer the question in the title...
> 
> No.


Well since you answered it you can closed this thread if you want.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

CraigerM said:


> How I am complaining when I am just curious as to how installations work. I like DTV I was just offering suggestions for easier installation setups.


The SWiM LNB draws quite a bit of current and that would force DIRECTV to oversize a HD receiver power supply by as much as 50%.

I'm pretty sure that the H25 wasn't designed to power anything.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

dennisj00 said:


> It doesn't matter what YOU have. Each device requires a PS.


With the exception of a DECA adapter.


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## CraigerM (Apr 15, 2014)

harsh said:


> The SWiM LNB draws quite a bit of current and that would force DIRECTV to oversize a HD receiver power supply by as much as 50%.
> 
> I'm pretty sure that the H25 wasn't designed to power anything.


Oh I didn't realize the SWiM LNB requires that much power. So an external power supply wouldn't cover all of it.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

An external power supply does power it.

Sent from my Galaxy S5


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## CraigerM (Apr 15, 2014)

damondlt said:


> An external power supply does power it.
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy S5


We should probably just close down this thread. I still don't get it.

I did say didn't cover all it. Isn't that why a power inserter is also needed to power the LNB in addition to the power supply?


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

CraigerM said:


> We should probably just close down this thread. I still don't get it.
> 
> I did say didn't cover all it. Isn't that why a power inserter is also needed to power the LNB in addition to the power supply?


It only powers the LNB or multiswitch. That's it. Receivers have their own power.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

CraigerM said:


> We should probably just close down this thread. I still don't get it.
> 
> I did say didn't cover all it. Isn't that why a power inserter is also needed to power the LNB in addition to the power supply?


No there is ONLY a power inserter. That is the power supply. If you unplug the power inserter, you will have no satellite signal.

Sent from my Galaxy S5


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

GOOGLE a Directv SWM wiring diagram. Then you will understand where the power supply comes into play.

Sent from my Galaxy S5


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## CraigerM (Apr 15, 2014)

I guess that is what I was getting confused on that the PI is the power supply for the LNB. What I guess I didn't get is why its this way now and it wasn't before?


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

CraigerM said:


> I guess that is what I was getting confused on that the PI is the power supply for the LNB. What I guess I didn't get is why its this way now and it wasn't before?


Before swm ,Legacy lnbs were used. And are still used. read back a few of my posts and you'll see what receivers and applications the Legacy Lnbs are used for.

If you use a Swm lnb it's a single wire 8 way/tuner multiswitch built in.

But if you are using a SWM 8/16 Multiswitch, you can't use a SWM lnb, Has to be the old style Legacy SL3 or SL5 LNb.

Like I said Legacy lnbs don't require external power inserters.
And still work, fine with Non swm receivers.

Sent from my Galaxy S5


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## dennisj00 (Sep 27, 2007)

There's really no reason to explain it here!


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## studechip (Apr 16, 2012)

Just to confuse things even more, a swm lnb can run on the power supply from a receiver, but not properly and probably not for long.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

studechip said:


> Just to confuse things even more, a swm lnb can run on the power supply from a receiver, but not properly and probably not for long.


Yep, but receivers can't power swm multiswitches.

Sent from my Galaxy S5


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

https://www.google.com/search?q=directv+swm.wiring+diagram&client=ms-android-att-us&source=android-browser&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=_glXU4LFLeTgsASa8YL4CA&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=360&bih=640#facrc=_&imgrc=UzLck4dVyDPBxM%253A%3BylYbSbHKkGvxvM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.satpro.tv%252Fimages%252Fswm-16-diagram.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.satpro.tv%252Fswm-16.aspx%3B500%3B816

Sent from my Galaxy S5


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

studechip said:


> Just to confuse things even more, a swm lnb can run on the power supply from a receiver, but not properly and probably not for long.


only under very limited circumstances


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## JosephB (Nov 14, 2005)

CraigerM said:


> I guess that is what I was getting confused on that the PI is the power supply for the LNB. What I guess I didn't get is why its this way now and it wasn't before?


There's a lot of cross talk and a bunch of stuff is getting confused.

In current, standard, new HD DirecTV installations that use SWM, you have ONE power supply. It's generally referred to as a power inserter (PI) but you may see it also referred to as the power supply. There's only one. Not a PI and a PS. Just one PI, that's it. It's a box that has a coax in, and a coax out. it basically goes between one of your receivers and your dish if you have a SWM LNB, meaning you have one wire that comes off your satellite dish. If you have a SWM Switch and a "legacy LNB" (meaning 4 wires out of your dish to a box, and then one wire from that box into your house) then the power inserter powers both the SWM switch and the legacy LNB, but that is not a standard installation and would only be used in special cases.

Now, back in the day of "legacy" LNBs you didn't need a power inserter. That's because the receivers could power the LNB by itself. The reason you now need a power inserter is because an LNB only needed a small amount of power to switch channels and push the signal down the wire. However, a SWM system is much more complicated and frequencies are being converted and channels moved around, and it's feeding 8 receivers at once. So, the power supply in the receivers are not nearly powerful enough to run that system. So, they now include the power inserter in the setup.

This is how SWM is wired:









Just one power supply.


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## CraigerM (Apr 15, 2014)

JosephB said:


> There's a lot of cross talk and a bunch of stuff is getting confused.
> 
> In current, standard, new HD DirecTV installations that use SWM, you have ONE power supply. It's generally referred to as a power inserter (PI) but you may see it also referred to as the power supply. There's only one. Not a PI and a PS. Just one PI, that's it. It's a box that has a coax in, and a coax out. it basically goes between one of your receivers and your dish if you have a SWM LNB, meaning you have one wire that comes off your satellite dish. If you have a SWM Switch and a "legacy LNB" (meaning 4 wires out of your dish to a box, and then one wire from that box into your house) then the power inserter powers both the SWM switch and the legacy LNB, but that is not a standard installation and would only be used in special cases.
> 
> ...


Don't get mad but I think I get with your diagram. So those boxes wouldn't need an ac cord from the box to an AC outlet the power inserter provides the power to boxes not the ac cord?


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

CraigerM said:


> Don't get mad but I think I get with your diagram. So those boxes wouldn't need an ac cord from the box to an AC outlet the power inserter provides the power to boxes not the ac cord?


No you still have to plug the receivers in. The Power inserter only powers swm lnb, or swim multiswitch.

Sent from my Galaxy S5


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## CraigerM (Apr 15, 2014)

damondlt said:


> No you still have to plug the receivers in. The Power inserter only powers swm lnb, or swim multiswitch.
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy S5


I get it now. I think what I was confused on is I thought each box needed its own PI. I think the question is where they would place the PI. I know some here said a good installer would place it so it wasn't seen at all.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

CraigerM said:


> I get it now. I think what I was confused on is I thought each box needed its own PI. I think the question is where they would place the PI. I know some here said a good installer would place it so it wasn't seen at all.


the PI can go anywhere as long as the coax that has the PI is connected to the power passing port of the splitter(s)


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## studechip (Apr 16, 2012)

peds48 said:


> only under very limited circumstances


Probably only when the receiver is providing 18 volts. Even then I doubt it would be very good for the power supply in the receiver.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

I have mine in a closet

Sent from my Galaxy S5


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

studechip said:


> Probably only when the receiver is providing 18 volts.


and a very short run of coax and it must be SCC to get lucky


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

damondlt said:


> Not 100% accurate
> Maybe the H25 and HR34/44 can't power the Dish since they are swm only.
> BUT
> Slimline 3 and 5 non swm lnbs are powered just fine with using HR20,21,22,23,24,
> ...


Which is exactly why I said "in the past..." That was to differentiate the move to smaller receivers/dvrs with external power supplies from all of the prior receivers/dvrs that have internal power supplies.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

CraigerM said:


> Couldn't DTV make an external power supply that is more efficient and power the LNB?


That is exactly what the PI is. But I think you've caught on to that in the various posts since this question.


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## dishinitout (Jan 4, 2013)

I'm starting to question if he understands the difference in terminology of a power supply (PS) and a power inserter (PI). They're two completely different items with different goals. The PS powers a receiver, a PI powers a switch or LNB.

Sent from my SM-N900V using DBSTalk mobile app


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## studechip (Apr 16, 2012)

dishinitout said:


> I'm starting to question if he understands the difference in terminology of a power supply (PS) and a power inserter (PI). They're two completely different items with different goals. The PS powers a receiver, a PI powers a switch or LNB.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N900V using DBSTalk mobile app


So a power supply in an HR24 doesn't power the non swm ka/ku lnb?


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

studechip said:


> So a power supply in an HR24 doesn't power the non swm ka/ku lnb?


Yes it will. Just not a SWM lnb or SWM multiswitches.

Sent from my Galaxy S5


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

studechip said:


> So a power supply in an HR24 doesn't power the non swm ka/ku lnb?


of course it does, but is semantics

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## dishinitout (Jan 4, 2013)

studechip said:


> So a power supply in an HR24 doesn't power the non swm ka/ku lnb?


Considering the OP was talking about a swm environment and so was I....

And if you want to get specific the power supply in your case is powering the receiver, which in turn powers the lnb

Sent from my SM-N900V using DBSTalk mobile app


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## studechip (Apr 16, 2012)

dishinitout said:


> Considering the OP was talking about a swm environment and so was I....
> 
> And if you want to get specific the power supply in your case is powering the receiver, which in turn powers the lnb
> 
> Sent from my SM-N900V using DBSTalk mobile app


So in a non swm setup the power supply powers the receiver but something else in the receiver powers the lnb?


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Yes. The receiver sends voltage up the line to power the LNB.


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## studechip (Apr 16, 2012)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Yes. The receiver sends voltage up the line to power the LNB.


And where does the receiver get the voltage from?


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

studechip said:


> And where does the receiver get the voltage from?


From an outlet!

Sent from my Galaxy S5


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

damondlt said:


> From an outlet!
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy S5


 !rolling


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## CraigerM (Apr 15, 2014)

Should I think about it this way, in order for DTV to make smaller HD DVR's and HD Receivers they moved the PS outside the box and that way doesn't provide enough power for the LNB. So to compensate for the LNB's power loss it needs the PI?


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## studechip (Apr 16, 2012)

CraigerM said:


> Should I think about it this way, in order for DTV to make smaller HD DVR's and HD Receivers they moved the PS outside the box and that way doesn't provide enough power for the LNB. So to compensate for the LNB's power loss it needs the PI?


They may have made the power supplies smaller in the H25s and the Genies, but not in the other models.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

studechip said:


> They may have made the power supplies smaller in the H25s and the Genies, but not in the other models.


What "other models" are you talking about? Those are the only new receivers introduced in the past four years, and also the only ones that support SWM only.

The SoC used in the SWM capable receivers is fully capable of tuning legacy channels, and providing voltage. The H25 is "SWM only" not because of limitations in the electronics, but because they chose to use a smaller power supply.

For the Genie the decision was more obvious - they didn't want to include 5 coax connectors on the back for the three people who would try to use it on a legacy install


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## studechip (Apr 16, 2012)

My whole point, which seems to be lost here, is that the swm only models have smaller power supplies because the power inserter provides voltage to the lnb, but in the other receivers/dvrs, the power supply supplies power to the receiver/dvr and the lnb. Posts #55 and 59 didn't make that clear.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

studechip said:


> but in the other receivers/dvrs, the power supply supplies power to the receiver/dvr and the lnb. Posts #55 and 59 didn't make that clear.


Yes on legacy lnbs only. Not SWM
and again, you need a coax for every tuner as well as the required BBCs, except HR23
Sent from my Galaxy S5


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

So long story short, Swm requires Separate power supply, but also eliminates the need for a coax for every tuner.
Eliminates All BBC's 
And enables Internet through coax, as well as whole home dvr.
So IMHO this is a much better setup then all the crap that's required with a multiple hopper, joey setup.


Sent from my Galaxy S5


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## CraigerM (Apr 15, 2014)

Does Dish Network need a power inserter?


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

CraigerM said:


> Does Dish Network need a power inserter?


My Dish Pro 44 dish switch did.

Sent from my Galaxy S5


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

Here this is the 3 Hopper 2 Joey setup I was going to do.

This is Whats required.
http://www.dbstalk.com/topic/196687-is-a-3-hopper-install-allowed/


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## dennisj00 (Sep 27, 2007)

Quite a bit more crap!


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

dennisj00 said:


> Quite a bit more crap!


Yep ,
This is all my 11 Tuner Directv setup requires.
View attachment 24782
Slimline 5
View attachment 24780
Swim 16
View attachment 24783
Power Inserter
View attachment 24781
And 2 of these Splitters


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## CraigerM (Apr 15, 2014)

damondlt said:


> Here this is the 3 Hopper 2 Joey setup I was going to do.
> 
> This is Whats required.
> http://www.dbstalk.com/topic/196687-is-a-3-hopper-install-allowed/


Holly crap! All that is required? Is all that required even if say a person just wanted two boxes? Would the Wireless and Virtual Joey's get rid of some of that?

Could DTV combine the PI and Mulitswitch?

Would a line run from the Mulitswitch to the PI and that line to the back a coax outlet?


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

CraigerM said:


> Holly crap! All that is required? Is all that required even if say a person just wanted two boxes? Would the Wireless and Virtual Joey's get rid of some of that?
> 
> Could DTV combine the PI and Mulitswitch?
> 
> Would a line run from the Mulitswitch to the PI and that line to the back a coax outlet?


If you look at the Power Inserter on the Directv Picture , it also serves as a receiver output.
Thats why there are 2 fittings on it.

In my case, I have a coax from PI (in my closet), right to the SWM 16 PI input on the Multiswitch.

Then 2 Coax feeds from SWM16 Leg 1 and 2, one first floor, and two to 3rd Floor of my House.
Then there is a 4 Way Splitter at the end of each feed. (Could have 8 way splitters at each feed if needed)

The first floor feed/splitter, does my HR34, and D12 for living room and office. One coax each.
The 3rd floor feed/splitter, runs 3 coax to my 2nd floor to 3 of the Main bedrooms. One for my HR24, HR23 and H25
Then on the same 3rd floor Splitter, the 4th output Coax stays on the 3rd floor where its connected to my Cinema Connection Kit, that sits right next to my Router and internet modem.

Now the PI can go to any one of those Splitter(red input only) and Feed Juice to the SWM 16, But I chose to do a separate Coax , just because it was easier to power it 10 feed away, then have the PI sitting in the attic or living room next to a receptacle . Also if there is any issue it can be traced right away . Instead of going through splitters and trouble shooting more stuff..


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## CraigerM (Apr 15, 2014)

So with Dish you would need their multiswitch, node, splitter and PI?


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

CraigerM said:


> So with Dish you would need their multiswitch, node, splitter and PI?


Yep, the Graph I posted , is For a 9 Tuner Hopper system.

I don't know how a 6 Tuner or 8 tuner with the new Super joey would look.
But 6 Tuners wouldn't fly in my House.

8 or 9 , I could make work. But not with all that Mess that required for the hopper system.

That Graph , plus No NY sports, Made me steer way clear or Dish, and I'm Glad I did, Because they jacked the Receiver fees way up.


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## CraigerM (Apr 15, 2014)

damondlt said:


> Yep, the Graph I posted , is For a 9 Tuner Hopper system.
> 
> I don't know how a 6 Tuner or 8 tuner with the new Super joey would look.
> But 6 Tuners wouldn't fly in my House.
> ...


Would you still need the Multiswitch, Node, Splitter and PI just one Hopper and one Joey or a HD Receiver with a tuner?


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

CraigerM said:


> Would you still need the Multiswitch, Node, Splitter and PI just one Hopper and one Joey or a HD Receiver with a tuner?



View attachment 24784
This is for a 2 Hopper 4 Joey system. This is Do-able (6 tuners)

View attachment 24785

This is for a 16 Tuner Directv Setup
8 HD DVRs, or 16- H25

Or a combination of any 16 Tuners , But can only be 8 tuners per leg

I wouldn't want to see what it would take to get 12 tuner hopper setup, Let alone a 16. :hair:
I guess thats why they do the Prime time Blah Blah Blah poor excuse for a tuner Anytime Nonsence!


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

View attachment 24786
This is a Swm LNB setup, 8 Tuners.

View attachment 24787
Single Hopper 2 Joey setup. 3 Tuners


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

CraigerM said:


> Would you still need the Multiswitch, Node, Splitter and PI just one Hopper and one Joey or a HD Receiver with a tuner?


Are you interested in learning about modern DIRECTV, or everything there is to know about DBS switchgear technology?

What happened in the past when LNBs could run on 10 volts doesn't apply as the switchgear in SWiM LNBs is much more sophisticated. It now requires double the voltage to run an SWiM lnb. SWiM standalone switches use a 29 volt PI. The sophistication came with a relatively big hop in power requirements and it wasn't just a matter of more current, but more voltage than a receiver was designed to provide.

DIRECTV is very committed to energy efficiency and raising the voltage is one of the best ways to get there. At the same time, it closes the door on providing power from the old sources.


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## CraigerM (Apr 15, 2014)

harsh said:


> Are you interested in learning about modern DIRECTV, or everything there is to know about DBS switchgear technology?
> 
> What happened in the past when LNBs could run on 10 volts doesn't apply as the switchgear in SWiM LNBs is much more sophisticated. It now requires double the voltage to run an SWiM lnb. SWiM standalone switches use a 29 volt PI. The sophistication came with a relatively big hop in power requirements and it wasn't just a matter of more current, but more voltage than a receiver was designed to provide.
> 
> DIRECTV is very committed to energy efficiency and raising the voltage is one of the best ways to get there. At the same time, it closes the door on providing power from the old sources.


Couldn't DTV just make an LNB that had 40 volts so you didn't need a PI? Or that not possible?


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

LNBs don't produce volts. Receivers do, and PI do.

You can't make receivers make more power without bringing all (most likely over 100,000,000) receivers back into the shop for more powerful PS.

So what would you say would be a better solution?

I would say Swm with PI.

EVERYTHING is compatible this way.

Sent from my Galaxy S5


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

If your against power inserters
Then stick with HR24s and H24s. Or older model receivers that don't require SWM.


Sent from my Galaxy S5


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## CraigerM (Apr 15, 2014)

I just think of the PI as extra device that could fail. How big was the PS in the older boxes so that you didn't need a PI? Kind of like the BBC's failing sometimes.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

CraigerM said:


> I just think of the PI as extra device that could fail. How big was the PS in the older boxes so that you didn't need a PI? Kind of like the BBC's failing sometimes.


So how is building it the equipment better? If a PI fails, that's a simple swap. A failed LNB with built in power requires more $kill.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

CraigerM said:


> I just think of the PI as extra device that could fail. How big was the PS in the older boxes so that you didn't need a PI? Kind of like the BBC's failing sometimes.


Read all the previous posts.
Everything you asked has been answered multiple times.
Read Harsh's last post. He explains why Non swm lnb can be powered by receivers and why swm lnbs can't be.
Sent from my Galaxy S5


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## CraigerM (Apr 15, 2014)

damondlt said:


> If your against power supplies.
> Then stick with HR24s and H24s. Or older model receivers.
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy S5


The H24 is the same size as the HR44 and it doesn't have an external PS. Unless the motherboard is configured in such a way the H24 can't have a Hard Drive? However, I can see if the PS fails that is an easy swap also. Then you would have to replace the whole box.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

CraigerM said:


> I just think of the PI as extra device that could fail.


as is every other piece on your system.


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## CraigerM (Apr 15, 2014)

sigma1914 said:


> So how is building it the equipment better? If a PI fails, that's a simple swap. A failed LNB with built in power requires more $kill.


That's one way of looking at. If the LNB fails you have to have a truck roll if the PI fails you can swap it out yourself.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

I just hit the 2 year mark, and I've yet to have any issues from faulty equipment, Or wiring. 
We had an extreme last 12 months weather wise too. 
From 99 last summer to Minus 21 last January. 

Directv software may suck, but I know hardware wise they last a Long time.

Sent from my Galaxy S5


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## studechip (Apr 16, 2012)

CraigerM said:


> That's one way of looking at. If the LNB fails you have to have a truck roll if the PI fails you can swap it out yourself.


I've replaced my lnb several times, once to go from a standard 5 lnb ka/ku to a swm, then to go to a 3 lnb swm. It's easy.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

studechip said:


> I've replaced my lnb several times, once to go from a standard 5 lnb ka/ku to a swm, then to go to a 3 lnb swm. It's easy.


What do you do to your lnbs that you replace them several times. I've had the same 5 lnb since 2008.
Just curious!

Sent from my Galaxy S5


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Hasn't this thread been beaten to death? Several people have explained to you why SWM uses a PI, if you don't like it, fine, get cable. Then you only have power supplies for the receiver and nothing else. Unless, of course, you have a lot of TVs then you'll need an amp and guess what, it will require a power supply (the horror!)


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

studechip said:


> I've replaced my lnb several times, once to go from a standard 5 lnb ka/ku to a swm, then to go to a 3 lnb swm. It's easy.


For you, but with 20 million subs, it's not easy.


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## Bill Broderick (Aug 25, 2006)

CraigerM said:


> Couldn't DTV just make an LNB that had 40 volts so you didn't need a PI? Or that not possible?


So now you want them to build a dish that needs to be plugged into an electrical outlet?


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

I think he's just playing games.


Sent from my Galaxy S5


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## studechip (Apr 16, 2012)

damondlt said:


> What do you do to your lnbs that you replace them several times. I've had the same 5 lnb since 2008.
> Just curious!
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy S5


I went to a 5 lnb swm when I added a dvr so I wouldn't have to add an extra line from the dish, then to a 3 due to tree growth. I don't really need 119 for sd locals since I have hd ones.


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## dishinitout (Jan 4, 2013)

damondlt said:


> I think he's just playing games.
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy S5


agreed....
I'm done here


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

CraigerM said:


> That's one way of looking at. If the LNB fails you have to have a truck roll if the PI fails you can swap it out yourself.


After reading your posts in this thread I "have my doubts" that you could swap a PI "yourself"



slice1900 said:


> Hasn't this thread been beaten to death? Several people have explained to you why SWM uses a PI, if you don't like it, fine, get cable.





damondlt said:


> I think he's just playing games.


There seems to be too much merit to these to leave this thread open.


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