# Unable to change to local OTA channels with remote



## dalucca (Feb 5, 2005)

Software version: L211Heed-N
Boot version: 150B
Flash version: F054

I have a "MINOR" issue with my new 921. I just received my receiver this week and hooked it to my Sony Wega 36" television and utilize a DVI cable for hookup. I ran a scan of my local OTA channels with great success. All the channels integrated themselves in my Program Guide and I am able to view all of them. 

One of my issues is when I am viewing some of the local channels provided by Dish Network (i.e., 006), and want to channel up to the corresponding local OTA station (006.1) with the Dish remote, the channel will not change. If I start with a channel number higher (i.e., 010) than the station I am trying to access I am able to channel down with no problem. I am also able to type in the number and access it without any issue. I also utilize a Home Theater MX-500 and I am encountering the same issue with it when I use the up button on the remote. 

One other issue I find odd is when I try to detect the OTA signal through the menu I am unable to obtain any signal strength. As I mentioned earlier, I was able to successfully scan and view all the local OTA stations available in my area. I also have a 811 receiver upstairs and I am able to obtain the signal strength when you I view any local OTA channel. With my 921 when I change to a local OTA station the signal strength I view is of the satellite feed, in particular the 110 feed.

I have spoken with Dish Network advanced technical support a couple of time and they stated they have never seen this issue. One lady I spoke to was shocked that the 921 allows you to obtain the OTA signal strength the same way you do for the satellite feed. Any help


----------



## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

dalucca - do you have the channel up problem ONLY on OTA channels? Or do you see it happen on satellite channels?

As for the signal strength, on the Add DTV screen or the Point Dish screen, you must enter the actual channel the station is being broadcast on, not the remapped channel. Just about all OTA digital stations these days are remapping their digital channels down to their analog equivalents. If you put in the analog equivalent channel, you'll see 0 signal strength. Check out www.antennaweb.org for a list in your area.


----------



## sluggo (Sep 16, 2004)

Mark Lamutt said:


> dalucca - do you have the channel up problem ONLY on OTA channels? Or do you see it happen on satellite channels?
> 
> As for the signal strength, on the Add DTV screen or the Point Dish screen, you must enter the actual channel the station is being broadcast on, not the remapped channel. Just about all OTA digital stations these days are remapping their digital channels down to their analog equivalents. If you put in the analog equivalent channel, you'll see 0 signal strength. Check out www.antennaweb.org for a list in your area.


I've seen the same thing on mine, with channels that I have guide info for, that is the channels that I subscribe through Dish for (Pittsburgh) I go to the Dish FOX and try to channel up to the OTA FOX and no go. I have to go into the guide select the channel and can go from there. Channels that I receive from another city (Youngstown) I'm not sure of. I also do not know it the channel down will work or not, but the channel up does not. I'll try those tonight and report back later.


----------



## dalucca (Feb 5, 2005)

Mark...thanks for the reply. Yes, it only occurs when going from a local station provided by Dish to a OTA channel. My only question is I do not encounter the issue when I channel down. 

And as far as the signal strength I did try to enter the actual channel numbers and still no luck. I did know of the actual numbers and that is were I am confused....no signal strength but obtaining the OTA with no issues. And like I mentioned earlier the signal I do see looks like it is the 110 signal from the satellite.


----------



## DHall (Apr 29, 2004)

I have the same problem with mine. It only happens when I go up from dish local channel 5 (WMAQ Chicago) to OTA 5.1. All other dish local to OTA digitals seem to work fine. Changing the channel down is not a problem. I can go from dish local channel 7 down to 5.2 then 5.1 and I can go down from dish channel 5 to OTA 2.1 and the dish channel 2.

Boot 150B
Flash 054
L211-HEED-N

Dave


----------



## dalucca (Feb 5, 2005)

To further clarify, I get stuck on a couple of other Dish local channels (i.e. 40 to 40.1 & 58 to 58.1) to OTA channeling up but never a problem going down. If I start at 6.1, I can scroll all the way to channel 40 and I get stuck again.


----------



## DHall (Apr 29, 2004)

DHall said:


> I have the same problem with mine. It only happens when I go up from dish local channel 5 (WMAQ Chicago) to OTA 5.1. All other dish local to OTA digitals seem to work fine. Changing the channel down is not a problem. I can go from dish local channel 7 down to 5.2 then 5.1 and I can go down from dish channel 5 to OTA 2.1 and the dish channel 2.
> 
> Boot 150B
> Flash 054
> ...


Just tried again and it also happens going up from dish local channel 9 to OTA 9.1.

Dave


----------



## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

From the remote you have to enter the OTA channels this way: 
For 9.1 you have to enter 00901.

As far as the channel up/down, I rarely use it. I don't subscribe to the LIL's so every digital OTA has it's corresponding OTA analog next to it (due to times when the 921 fails to receive the digital signal due to missing PSIP data or multipath I keep the analogs around). If I channel up/down I get an analog  feed.

Interesting bug: I have several stations in my digital OTA guide that don't come in without changing the antenna. If I selected one of these whithout fixing the antenna, the 921 tends to not want to move off that channel via the up/down buttons. It's as if it's bound and determined to pull in that station and can't let go when I try to tell it to change. It has no problems changing if the signal is present.


----------



## DHall (Apr 29, 2004)

Michael P said:


> From the remote you have to enter the OTA channels this way:
> For 9.1 you have to enter 00901.
> 
> As far as the channel up/down, I rarely use it. I don't subscribe to the LIL's so every digital OTA has it's corresponding OTA analog next to it (due to times when the 921 fails to receive the digital signal due to missing PSIP data or multipath I keep the analogs around). If I channel up/down I get an analog  feed.
> ...


Thanks, but I know how to enter channel numbers via the remote. And the signal strength on the channels it won't change to are constantly in the 120 - 125 range, as are the signals of the channels it will change to.

This isn't one of those "if they don't get this bug fixed my 921 is useless" bugs. It's just somewhat annoying, especially when I have to hear about it from my wife. :eek2:


----------



## sluggo (Sep 16, 2004)

DHall said:


> Thanks, but I know how to enter channel numbers via the remote. And the signal strength on the channels it won't change to are constantly in the 120 - 125 range, as are the signals of the channels it will change to.
> 
> This isn't one of those "if they don't get this bug fixed my 921 is useless" bugs. It's just somewhat annoying, especially when I have to hear about it from my wife. :eek2:


I went home last night to try channeling down and found some interesting things. Let's start with Sunday's Super Bowl. My OTA FOX (Youngstown) normally has a signal strength of around 110 without wavering. During the game it fluctuated from 85 to zero with a lot of lost lock messages until I channeled down and then went into guide and selected it again. Last night I was down to no signal on that station and about 9 others that I usually get. Went through all the motions, front panel, hard reset, factory default reset and still now only get two OTA channels. Even if I manually add the strongest stations, I get no signal. I have deleted both of them and saved the empty list, re-scanned and still just 2. Deleted them, saved the empty list and tried front panel reset, still just two. Same with hard reset. I'm at a loss. It could be that I have a loose connection or that my antenna has shifted slightly and I'll check that Friday, but I doubt it because even if I point the antenna at Pittsburgh, the Youngstown stations come in with a booming signal due to how close I live. I'll keep you all posted.


----------



## dishbacker (Jun 15, 2004)

I notice a couple of things here...

1) Stations have been messing with their PSIP info since it was supposed to be standardized on Feb. 1st. Mark has already posted a note about that (if its not here, its in the general dish network forum). The 921 doesn't do real-time PSIP updates like the 811 does, so if a station does a tweak of their PSIP data, it could affect the 921 and you will just need to go to the locals add page and read the individual station.

2) There is a bug that is well documented with L211 about a number of buttons not responding on the remote... usually after watching HD for some portion of time... included in that is the HD/SD button and sometimes all SD content is always stretched. Some of the threads about this include:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=36260
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=37627&highlight=Page
Try doing a power cord reboot of your box (put it in standby and unplug it for a little over 2 min) start it back up and see if you still have the page up issue.


----------



## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

sluggo said:


> I went home last night to try channeling down and found some interesting things. Let's start with Sunday's Super Bowl. My OTA FOX (Youngstown) normally has a signal strength of around 110 without wavering. During the game it fluctuated from 85 to zero with a lot of lost lock messages until I channeled down and then went into guide and selected it again. Last night I was down to no signal on that station and about 9 others that I usually get. Went through all the motions, front panel, hard reset, factory default reset and still now only get two OTA channels. Even if I manually add the strongest stations, I get no signal. I have deleted both of them and saved the empty list, re-scanned and still just 2. Deleted them, saved the empty list and tried front panel reset, still just two. Same with hard reset. I'm at a loss. It could be that I have a loose connection or that my antenna has shifted slightly and I'll check that Friday, but I doubt it because even if I point the antenna at Pittsburgh, the Youngstown stations come in with a booming signal due to how close I live. I'll keep you all posted.


Since when did the low power WYFX get a digital signal? I presumed that WKBN-DT would have put WYFX in SD on a subchannel. I can get the analog WKBN & WFMJ up here in the Cleveland antenna farm, but so far have had only a brief encounter with WFMJ-DT (as "rf20-1" & "rf20-2") I know that 20-2 is the WB (a DX'er posted a screen shot of "The Valley's WB" that was received in Indianna!).


----------



## sluggo (Sep 16, 2004)

Michael P said:


> Since when did the low power WYFX get a digital signal? I presumed that WKBN-DT would have put WYFX in SD on a subchannel. I can get the analog WKBN & WFMJ up here in the Cleveland antenna farm, but so far have had only a brief encounter with WFMJ-DT (as "rf20-1" & "rf20-2") I know that 20-2 is the WB (a DX'er posted a screen shot of "The Valley's WB" that was received in Indianna!).


My bad!!! I truly meant that the PITTSBURGH OTA FOX came in with a good signal and now it's just gone. Youngstown FOX does not yet have a digital signal as far as I know.


----------



## dalucca (Feb 5, 2005)

So back to my original post:

1) Is it a bug when we are unable to channel up to a OTA from a local station, and 

2) Why receiving OTA channels with very good success but unable to obtain signal strength both via System Setup/PointDish and the meter when you change to a OTA channel.

Thanks.


----------



## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

dalucca - for the answer to your 2nd question, read the original post I left for you at the top of this thread. For your 1st one, maybe...although it's not one that I have on my 921 (at least that I've noticed).


----------



## dalucca (Feb 5, 2005)

dalucca said:


> Mark...thanks for the reply. Yes, it only occurs when going from a local station provided by Dish to a OTA channel. My only question is I do not encounter the issue when I channel down.
> 
> And as far as the signal strength I did try to enter the actual channel numbers and still no luck. I did know of the actual numbers and that is were I am confused....no signal strength but obtaining the OTA with no issues. And like I mentioned earlier the signal I do see looks like it is the 110 signal from the satellite.


Thanks for the reply Mark....I knew of the actual channel number issue which I ran into when trying to setup my 811 last year. As I mentioned in my original post, the 811 is having no issues and is showing the actual signal strength. So when I tried to lock a OTA signal with my 921 it is showing no signal when I enter the actual channel number.

Like I also said, not a big issue but one I find very strange. On both receivers I am obtaining all my OTA channels and not really having any major issues. Just would like to see a resolution. Appreciate any feedback.


----------



## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

That's just absolutely bizarre. Do you see the signal strength in the banner that appears when you change to an OTA channel?


----------



## dalucca (Feb 5, 2005)

Yes, but the signal in the banner seems to be the strength of the 110 signal and not the OTA channel. All my signal strengths on the 811 are between 80 - 90%. On the 921 it is anywhere between 115 - 125%. Very bizarre, but happy I am least able to view OTA channels on both receivers.


----------



## KKlare (Sep 24, 2004)

The 811 seems to have a 0-100 range while the 921 is 0-125. So all your signals are good.

Bizarre on the 921 for me is sometime the OTA signal strength shows while playing a recording. Unless it was a live rewind. That and unknown channel 077 after the record time but still viewing it.

Hurry that update, no SB excuse now.

-Ken


----------



## dalucca (Feb 5, 2005)

Should I not see the same signal strength or at least very close on both receivers? Can the 921 amplify the signal? Still very bizarre.....


----------



## n0qcu (Mar 23, 2002)

dalucca said:


> Should I not see the same signal strength or at least very close on both receivers? Can the 921 amplify the signal? Still very bizarre.....


NO - They are different scales.


----------



## dalucca (Feb 5, 2005)

That seems like a big difference and still does not explain why I cannot view signal strength when I am in the System Setup/PointDish menu


----------



## Grandude (Oct 21, 2004)

dalucca said:


> That seems like a big difference and still does not explain why I cannot view signal strength when I am in the System Setup/PointDish menu


Maybe you are not waiting long enough. It takes a lot more time for the signal strength to show up in the 921 menu than it does for the 811.


----------



## dalucca (Feb 5, 2005)

What would be a reasonable time period? It seems like I did wait at least 10 seconds or more......if I need to wait longer please let me know so I can try. Thanks.


----------



## tbeuthin (Dec 15, 2004)

dalucca said:


> So back to my original post:
> 
> 1) Is it a bug when we are unable to channel up to a OTA from a local station, and
> 
> ...


Yes, #1 IS a bug. I had exactly the same problem. i.e. tuned to channel 5 KTLA in L.A. up button fails to respond to change to KLTA 5-1 OTA digital. The same applys to any other remapped LIL which has a OTA digital above it. Down Button works OK, but not Up. And you can get around it by going to the Guide where the channel up button does work.

However the host of other more serious bugs like jittery video really got to me so I RMAed the 921, took them 3 weeks to get me the mailing labels after promising twice they were sending boxes via 2 day UPS (boxes never showed up). Finally got return UPS labels via good ole USPS.

Sent the 921 back 1/28, DISH got on 2/1 now just waiting for the credit which they say can take 2-6 weeks. I diputed the charge as my 921 just had to may problems to be called a properly working unit and I did not want a refurb or have to argue about paying for shipping for replacements down the road. i.e. It took 6 replacments to get a good 501 once when my fist 501 failed. My 508 only needed replacment once.

I also cancelled my service after 6 1/2 years as mostly a top tier customer with a perfect paying record and CC autopay anyway for the last few years.

The awful support for the 921, broken NBR promises for various receivers, poor PQ for L.A. locals, price increases, VOD fees if you reduce from AEP. The CSRs are mostly clueless about the 921 after its been out for more than a year and now its being replaced. I ordered the 921 in Dec. 2004 just before the 942 was announced. It didn't bother me the 921 was made obsolete, but the fact its obsolete and still has so many bugs was too much for me. No NBR for the once top product IMHO sucks. Actually its still thier top HD product, as I don't think you can get a 942 just yet.

On the plus when the 921 didn't freeze or wasn't having jittery video, or need a reboot in the middle of a recording, the 921 had a good picture on my 36" Sony XBR like Discovery HD or OTA HD locals. But I still watch a lot of SD. Color seems better on SD (probably due to component input), but on my Sony Cinemotion is not available on component input on my Sony, so no 3:2 pulldown etc in SD.

The 921 is probably capable of working right, IF they fix the many S/W bugs and/or you get one that does not have bad H/W. But that's might be a big IF.

My 508 and 501 are pretty stable after the many S/W updates (and replacments). But the 921 is end of life and Dish Linux seems dead and so is the future os MPEG-2 HD from Sat.

But if you get one that works and you only have minor bugs like the "NO channel UP from SD LIL to OTA digital" you should count yourself as lucky.

I'd rather own the box verus lease (maybe financially stupid) which is my hangup from my very short time with cable.

Actually leasing may not be so smart either, if the require a non-refundable up front fee of $99 or $148, or even $250 for suppoedly the 942 and the darn thing doesn't work, then if is a POS you probably won't see your up front lease fee back. Now I am way off topic.

But yes the UP button doesn't work from LIL to same channel OTA digital in s/w v211, at least my 921 didn't, the same as dalucca's.


----------



## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

It definitely shouldn't take more than 10 seconds to lock in and show the signal strength.

dalucca - there are several other users here from the Sacramento area. Please post your channel lineup with broadcast channel, PSIP remapped channel and the signal strengths reported by the 811 from the Add DTV screen and the signal strength reported by the 921 from the browse banner.


----------



## DHall (Apr 29, 2004)

As I posted earlier in this thread, I was having the same problem, not being able the go up in channel from a local dish channel (I subscribe to dish locals) to OTA digital, i.e. from 5 to 5.1. My dad has an 811 and told me that WUPN, channel 26, now maps to 26.1 instead of being down at 001.1. I decided at this point to delete all my digital channels and rescan. When I did this, I found channel 5 analog and channel 9 analog were also on my channel list. These were the two channels I was having the trouble with. I deleted these and now the channel up works fine. 

So check your channel list, menu 6 - 8. If you subscribe to dish locals, make sure there are no analog locals on this list. If there are, delete them and that should solve the channel changing problem.

Dave

DVR921
Boot 150B
Flash 054
L211-HEED-N


----------



## Jon Spackman (Feb 7, 2005)

so the 921 should have say channel 5 (sat) and channel 005 (OTA) both show up?

My 921 starts at channel 105 (sat) and only digital channels below 105 (004,005,0028, etc)


yes i subscribe to sat locals

When i activated my 921 those channels didnt show up, but the CSR said it takes a while for them to show up. later the next day i think, ths sat locals were there on 5, 7, etc. but then after i added the digital OTA, they are gone again.

I thought i read on here that if you have OTA digital locals turned on then the sat locals will not show up??

which is it? Mark does your box show 004 and sat 4?? or are locals for the sat only thru like channel 8004 or 248 or some crap??


----------



## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

It depends on how you have it set. To map down your local satellite channels so that they show up as the local channel numbers, you have to set the option on page 2 of the preferences - uncheck the "Enable Off-Air Antenna Locals" and you will get your dish locals mapped into your guide as their analog equivalent channel. For example, in Denver we have channel 4 analog and 4-1 digital. My guide lists 4 first, followed by 4-1. 

You can either downmap your sat locals, OR you can scan in analog locals from antenna. You can't have both.


----------



## Grandude (Oct 21, 2004)

dalucca said:


> What would be a reasonable time period? It seems like I did wait at least 10 seconds or more......if I need to wait longer please let me know so I can try. Thanks.


I really don't know but suspect that 10 seconds should be enough. This might be a variable in each receiver. A friend of mine in the valley, when he first got his 921, mentioned to me that he didn't get any signal strength readings in the point dish menu. I pointed out that it took a while for it to register and he went back and found this to be true. He, like I, had been used to the more instant reading when using the 811.
I would guess that if nothing appears after 30 seconds, then something isn't right about your 921. I'm looking forward to the next software download to see if some of my quirky problems will be solved.


----------



## dalucca (Feb 5, 2005)

Grandude said:


> I really don't know but suspect that 10 seconds should be enough. This might be a variable in each receiver. A friend of mine in the valley, when he first got his 921, mentioned to me that he didn't get any signal strength readings in the point dish menu. I pointed out that it took a while for it to register and he went back and found this to be true. He, like I, had been used to the more instant reading when using the 811.
> I would guess that if nothing appears after 30 seconds, then something isn't right about your 921. I'm looking forward to the next software download to see if some of my quirky problems will be solved.


Well guess what....after approx. 13 seconds my first OTA channel gave me a signal strength...107%. Upon subsequent tries, the signal strength for the other channels took just about the same time frame. Hey, happy happy.....at least I know I am getting a good signal and can view my local stations in HD.

Now if the channel up issue gets fixed, hopefully with the next software download, my 921 actually is functioning ok.....or until I run into another issue. Thanks everyone for all the great responses.  This is truly a great forum.


----------



## Jon Spackman (Feb 7, 2005)

in still confused....

If i go to my 921 and type 5, it goes to 005 (KTLA digital DTV OTA 5), i went in to the prefereneces and it had no analog channels, so i did a analog search, it found like 30, i then deleted all of them and when i punch in 5 it still goes to 005 digital OTA. Mark you said if i uncheck the "receieve local digital...." box then sat. locals will show up on 5, but how would i then be able to record with the OTA?? will it still record on them, but not have them in the guide and when you chan up??

it sounds like you guys can press 5 and get sat 5, then chan up and get 5.1 or what mine shows are 005-1, what gives????

Jon


----------



## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Jon, now you have me confused here. Your local satellite downmapped channels will show up in the guide as just the number, while your digital channel will show up as the number dash another number (usually 1).

So, for your channel 5, your satellite local channel will show up as 5, while your local digital channel will show up as 005-01. I think you may be getting confused with how scanned analog channels from your antenna would show up, which would be 005-00. You can have either your local channels show up as downmapped from the satellite or from your antenna. Not both. So, you will never see your guide list both 5 and 005-00. That's not possible.

Now, recording wise, you can record from channel 5 because that's a satellite local channel. You cannot record from channel 005-00 because that's an analog channel being passed through from your antenna. The 921 would need an mpeg encoder to record an antenna analog channel, which it doesn't have. And you can record from channel 005-01 because that's your local digital channel. 

Does that make any more sense, or just make the situation more confusing?


----------



## Jon Spackman (Feb 7, 2005)

kinda, if i go in my guide there is nothing (sat) below 105. The chans. that show up below 105 are OTA digital channels. I think the lil's show up but as 8004 or whatever. so i can only have local chans. show up as OTA HD locals or SD sat locals, but not both?? because these guys are saying that they have problems when they are on sat 5 and push chan + on their remote. There is nothing for me below 105 (Sat).......just OTA digital chans


PS thanks for all your hard work Mark! if not for you i would have waited for a yet-to-be-seen-how-reliable-it-is 942 vapor box....(or does phantom box sound better?)

Jon


----------



## dalucca (Feb 5, 2005)

Mark Lamutt said:


> Jon, now you have me confused here. Your local satellite downmapped channels will show up in the guide as just the number, while your digital channel will show up as the number dash another number (usually 1).
> 
> So, for your channel 5, your satellite local channel will show up as 5, while your local digital channel will show up as 005-01. I think you may be getting confused with how scanned analog channels from your antenna would show up, which would be 005-00. You can have either your local channels show up as downmapped from the satellite or from your antenna. Not both. So, you will never see your guide list both 5 and 005-00. That's not possible.
> 
> ...


Mark, you state that we should be able to record from a local digital channel (i.e. 003.01, 006.02, 058.01) but whenever I try the red button defaults to the satellite local channel. Please advise.....bug or doing something wrong


----------



## dalucca (Feb 5, 2005)

Mark, disregard previous reply....I read a response by you in another thread and if I understand correctly......if you select a digital OTA station to record and the famous red button defaults to the local analog station, it still will record the digital transmission.

Is this is correct, is this a bug which will be fixed in a later software release?


----------



## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

That's correct dalucca, and will hopefully be fixed in the next version.


----------



## dalucca (Feb 5, 2005)

Mark Lamutt said:


> That's correct dalucca, and will hopefully be fixed in the next version.


Thanks Mark, one more item. In reference to other issue in my original post, is it a known bug and is there a planned fix for the channel up issue. As a reminder here was my issue:

"One of my issues is when I am viewing some of the local channels provided by Dish Network (i.e., 006), and want to channel up to the corresponding local OTA station (006.1) with the Dish remote, the channel will not change. If I start with a channel number higher (i.e., 010) than the station I am trying to access I am able to channel down with no problem. I am also able to type in the number and access it without any issue. I also utilize a Home Theater MX-500 and I am encountering the same issue with it when I use the up button on the remote."

I would appreciate any input into the issue....I know there are a couple of workarounds but would be nice if problem is corrected. Thanks again.


----------

