# Sticky  Official DBSTalk ViP622 DVR Review



## Mike Johnson

Well it's finally here, the Official DBSTalk ViP622 DVR Review

The file is in Adobe Acrobat (PDF) format, please make sure you have a compatible PDF reader... Version 5.0 or better should work.

It is almost 1.8 MB in size, depending on server load it may take a bit to download. Your best bet for downloading may be to do a "Save As" instead of trying to download and view inside of your browser.

Enjoy!
Rob Glasser & Mike Johnson


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## Mike Johnson

Please post any comments or questions about our ViP622 DVR Review in this thread.

Rob Glasser & Mike Johnson


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## rfowkes

Outstanding document!

Should be packaged with every 622.

I'm still loving my 622. I have some issues with FOX HD (NY locals) but I'm not sure it has anything to do with the device. I'll be investigating this in the proper 622 support threads.

Once again, great job on the review guys.


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## Jeff McClellan

Remarkable, you 2 guys did a very good job in making a document that benefit alot of folks to come. You should be proud of yourselves.


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## cebbigh

Excellent review. A very very good job!


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## Ghostwriter

I am going to sound like an unappreciative f*#^ but is this opinion based at all? I mean I scrolled through the first 6 pages and it looked like the manual that came with the 622 to begin with. I rather not read the manual twice.


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## Jeff McClellan

I think everyone is entitled to interpret it they way they want. Seems you are second person that has referred to it as a manual. Hmmm.


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## Chris Blount

Ghostwriter said:


> I am going to sound like an unappreciative f*#^ but is this opinion based at all? I mean I scrolled through the first 6 pages and it looked like the manual that came with the 622 to begin with. I rather not read the manual twice.


I can understand your point of view but read a little further. It compares the 622 with the 921 and 942. Also take a look at sections 4.1, 5.1, 7.2 and 8 (just to name a few). There is stuff in there you won't find in the manual.

Alot of work went into this to not only make it informative, but to outline how it stacks up against other DVR's in Dish Network's lineup.


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## treiher

Outstanding review, thanks!!! Some real effort went into making this a very nice professional looking report, which is why people I think are confusing it with a manual, but I believe the detailed review of the operation is an important aspect. 

One question . . . the 942 has developed a very slow caller ID pop-up over time, almost to where it is not useful. Were you able to observe the 622's response time? Any improvement?


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## Cardini

Very nice job indeed. And even if parts of this do in fact look like the manual, let's not overlook the fact that many people who would look to this as a source of information to guide their future purchases, won't already have the manual. :nono:


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## Mikey

Jeff McClellan said:


> I think everyone is entitled to interpret it they way they want. Seems you are second person that has referred to it as a manual. Hmmm.


Well, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, ... 

But yes, it is presented in a professional manner. It's just missing some of the human elements we expect in a forum context. You know, the WTF reaction.


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## lakebum431

treiher said:


> Outstanding review, thanks!!! Some real effort went into making this a very nice professional looking report, which is why people I think are confusing it with a manual, but I believe the detailed review of the operation is an important aspect.
> 
> One question . . . the 942 has developed a very slow caller ID pop-up over time, almost to where it is not useful. Were you able to observe the 622's response time? Any improvement?


That has been fixed (in the latest software release (L284)


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## James Long

Mikey said:


> But yes, it is presented in a professional manner. It's just missing some of the human elements we expect in a forum context. You know, the WTF reaction.


It was more of a WOW reaction when the guys got their 622s. 

As a permanent reference it is a good look at the receiver at L350 and how well it does at replacing the 942 (and 921). There are plenty of WTF and WOW comments presented 'in a forum context' here in the 622 forum if you want to read about the 622 in a more casual manner.


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## Rob Glasser

The purpose of the review was three-fold. 

First and foremost it was to give the reader an idea of what the ViP622 features are, the connections it supports, menus, how to set it up initially. Keep in mind that right now not a lot of people have 622's and therefore they don't have the manual to look at. 

Secondly, it was to let the current owner of HD Dish equipment know what's new about the 622 compared to their existing HD DVR. What has been added since the 921, and the 942? 

And finally, it was to give our opinion on the features and changes and whether or not it's something we think is worth buying. 

We figured that would be much more useful than just stating our opinion about everything and providing no meat on what the receiver can do.

If all you are looking for is opinions, just start reading all the threads here, there are plenty of them.

Thank you


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## BillJ

I appreciate the section on initial startup and activation. I may have to do this myself and your info takes the guess work out of it. Should also make me sound smarter when I call the CSR and beg for non-installer activation. Nice job, guys!


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## ericmatz

Does the closed captioned work in 1080i mode? My 921 is a piece of crap sometimes so I can't wait to use the Vip 622 in April. Thank you.


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## James Long

Yep. CC works in 1080i and other modes.


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## ericmatz

Awesome. Thanks James.


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## Ron Barry

Excellent jobs guys. Well done and I felt it was a good mix of tutorial and opinion. Reviews are always hard to do. I think this box will be replacing my 921 come April 1st or if maybe sooner.


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## unr1

wonderful review, thanks to all those who participated in this.


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## cpufixer1

Is the HMDI/DVI HDCP protected ? My plasma has a DVD-D and can not accept a HDCP protected DVI.


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## Jerry G

Just finished reading it. Excellent. Thanks to the authors.


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## portagent

Bravo, this is a great review, you can tell a lot of work went into this, good job.

My Question: 2mpeg 941 vz 4mpeg VIP622. Does this allow me to capture more programs offered in HD format in the future, or is it a faster chip, or what? 

I dont seem to be able to find information on 4mpeg.

Thanks
Louis
happy 942 user


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## Jeff McClellan

I think as others said, this review may not mean alot to the 200 who have theirs, but the, (and we wont quote any numbers here), but those for the future. I had alot of people say these guys did a great job. And like others have said, the more there are, the better for those who are looking to get one. See, I said something nice.


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## Rob Glasser

portagent said:


> Bravo, this is a great review, you can tell a lot of work went into this, good job.
> 
> My Question: 2mpeg 941 vz 4mpeg VIP622. Does this allow me to capture more programs offered in HD format in the future, or is it a faster chip, or what?
> 
> I dont seem to be able to find information on 4mpeg.
> 
> Thanks
> Louis
> happy 942 user


MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 are different standards for audio/video encoding and compression. Because MPEG-4 is much more effecient and compresses better, it takes less bandwidth to transmit and allows more data to travel through a fixed amount of bandwidth, i.e. Satellite transmissions. Both DirectTV and Dish Network are transitioning to MPEG-4 to allow them to transmit more channels than they could with MPEG-2 encoding.

Since MPEG-4 is a different encoding method it requires a different decoder (read hardware) to process the stream so you can view it. As of 2006, Dish Network has said that all future HD programming will be MPEG-4 and therefor you will need one of their MPEG-4 compatible receivers to view it (ViP211 or ViP622 DVR).


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## Charise

Very nice job on the review!

One thing I've noticed on the 622 that I didn't see in the review is that when you want to again watch a recorded show you have stopped watching, the default is to "resume" not "start over."  

Another thing that's not as nice, in my opinion, is with my 721 remote I could press "mute" and (after setting my TV to do this) get closed captioning when the TV was muted. Not a necessity, certainly, but just a nice little extra. I can't see how to do that with the 622.


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## portagent

Thanks for the explanation Rob,

I have my $100 ready now for April 1st.


regards,
Louis
Future former 942 user


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## shamus46

Outstanding review, I can’t understand how people are confusing it with a Dish manual, this is much better.


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## lujan

I'm a current 921 user who will be upgrading to a 622 on 4/1. This review was fantastic and will make the 622 transition much less mysterious.


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## Rob Glasser

Thanks everyone for the feedback, we appreciate it.


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## BFG

wow that was one snazzy looking review you did.

Hoever one thing I was looking for was screencaps of How SD & HD pictures can be formatted on the TV1 HD outputs, SD outputs, and TV2 Outputs. I've heard that on SD out there is no formatting, it's just 16x9 cropped, and 4x3 normal. But I'd like to see pics of this thanx!


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## Rob Glasser

BFG said:


> wow that was one snazzy looking review you did.
> 
> Hoever one thing I was looking for was screencaps of How SD & HD pictures can be formatted on the TV1 HD outputs, SD outputs, and TV2 Outputs. I've heard that on SD out there is no formatting, it's just 16x9 cropped, and 4x3 normal. But I'd like to see pics of this thanx!


That would be good information to have, maybe we can include it in a future revision.

In the meantime, the modes for TV1 are: Normal (full image on HD Widescreen content, Black bars on the sides for 4:3 content), Stretch (Stretches 4:3 content to fill a 16:9 screen), Zoom (Zooms in 4:3 content to fill a 16:9 screen), Partial Zoom (Combination of zoom and stetch so 4:3 content will fill a 16:9 screen), and Gray Bars (Replaces black bars on 4:3 content with gray bars).

As for TV2 in dual mode, if the channel is an SD channel you can't change the mode, it is normal 4:3. If the channel is an HD 16:9 channel you can choose between normal (which cuts off the sides of the show, or letterbox which puts black bars on top and bottom and keeps the 16:9 aspect ratio.


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## James Long

BFG said:


> I've heard that on SD out there is no formatting, it's just 16x9 cropped, and 4x3 normal. But I'd like to see pics of this thanx!


At the moment TV1 is exactly what you would see on the HD feeds just downrezzed. If you're watching 16:9 HD and your HD display is set to 16:9 your SD output is stretched. As you peg through the screen stretch options appropriate for the HD side the SD follows suit (as if it were a 16:9 display).

TV2 is like the ViP-211 and has less options (SD output is always "4:3" showing 4:3 SD feeds and either letterbox or zoomed in showing 16:9 HD feeds).

I say at the moment because when I first got my ViP-211 it behaved exactly like the TV1 output on the ViP-622 DVR. E* has since "fixed" that so now HD and SD stretch is controlled seperately. As of today the 622 has not been "fixed". (The ViP-211 allows all the appropriate modes in HD but limits the SD side to full screen 4:3 or letterbox/zoom if showing a 16:9 feed.)

The current TV1 modes are: "normal" "stretch" "partial zoom" "zoom" and "gray bar"
The TV2 modes are "normal" or "letterbox" with letterbox disabled when watching 4:3 feeds.

I see Rob was answering at the same time ...


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## BFG

Ok so basically the SD output on TV1 can be sorta thought of as Anamorphic?

I kinda like that for DVDs, so hopefully when they make an update they leave that in and possible label it as Squeeze when htey isolate the HD and SD formatting, like the 211 and 811 has


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## Mike Johnson

BFG said:


> Ok so basically the SD output on TV1 can be sorta thought of as Anamorphic?


That is correct. I like it for recording to DVDs myself, so I can record them as widescreen.

I also like your request for adding a section to the review that shows all of the different zoom modes. Maybe using the HDNet Test Patterns to show what effects each of the modes have on the picture. I'll talk this over with Rob and maybe we can add an addendum.


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## tnsprin

You mention in only one place one of the few negatives of the vip622. It doesn't support NTSC (analog) OTA. I would mention it both in the front and the conclusions.


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## Ghostwriter

Chris Blount said:


> I can understand your point of view but read a little further. It compares the 622 with the 921 and 942. Also take a look at sections 4.1, 5.1, 7.2 and 8 (just to name a few). There is stuff in there you won't find in the manual.
> 
> Alot of work went into this to not only make it informative, but to outline how it stacks up against other DVR's in Dish Network's lineup.


Well I will definately look through it. As I mentioned I didn't want to sound like unappreciative but seeing the first 6 pages reminded me of the manual. If there are tips, comparisons and opinions in there then I will definately read through!


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## lujan

I liked the review but I still haven't been able to find out how long the pause buffer is on the 622. It is 2 hours on the 921 and I'm hoping that it is at least as long on the 622. Anyone know?


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## DonLandis

Nice job fellows. Do I have your permission to print it out to keep by the equipment when I get a 622? I suspect that your manual is far better than the one Dish will supply.

Ghostwriter- if you are looking for some "conclusions" that does not sound like a manual writing style, go to page 44 and read backwards. They have some opinions posted near the end of the manual. I agree the entire work reads more like a manual than an editorial review but IMHO, this is a good thing. Already read Scotts "first impression install review" and there are several posted first impressions from users here but what was lacking for non-owners is a manual on how it works. That we now have. I like it that way!

I have one suggestion for the authors- Would you consider making your excellent pdf into an interactive DVD? Now that would be a great thing to have for first time users. The DVD menu could be the hot link table of contents. There are some easy DVD authoring tools for doing this in an automated process but I don't recall seeing it done with a PDF file.


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## TOAST

NICE JOB info is right on.


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## Rob Glasser

DonLandis said:


> Nice job fellows. Do I have your permission to print it out to keep by the equipment when I get a 622? I suspect that your manual is far better than the one Dish will supply.


Thank you very much, and yes, of course you or anyone else for that matter has permission to print it out for personal use.

As to the whole, Review vs. Manual talk, I guess you could call this a "Revual"  , it's really both. It started out as a "First Look" type doc and really out grew that so we started calling it a Review, maybe Overview would have been more accurate. Regardless the information is there to supplement what your going to find in the manual and help prospective customers determine whether or not it's something they would want to purchase/lease.

Anyways, we're glad that everyone is enjoying it.


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## DonLandis

Thanks, I have a nice color laser printer so the pdf will be on the way to that tomorrow. 

I didn't read the whole thing in study mode but will later as I offload it to my PDA for those moments I have time. 

Yes, I do plan to order after 4-1 but may need to delay the install for mid May because I will be traveling quite a bit in April and first week of May. NAB is one of those weeks. Their 4-1 timing couldn't have been worse for me so we'll see.


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## pajer

is there a way for the 622 to allow a 50/50 split of the pip or just the larger / smaller sizes?


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## sb987

Really a great, detailed review!

On the last page, it says on April 1 current owners of a 942 can upgrade for $99, $50 more than a new sub. Does that mean on April 1 new subs will only pay $49 for the VIP622?


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## James Long

I believe they are referring to people who leased the 942 for $250 being able to trade it in for a 622 for $299 less $200 rebate ($99) and end up paying $349 for their unit. That is what is only $50 more than a new sub.

There is no deal coming where a new sub can get a ViP-622 for $49.


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## Rob Glasser

Yes, we were saying exactly what James posted. Sorry for the confusion.


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## Rob Glasser

pajer said:


> is there a way for the 622 to allow a 50/50 split of the pip or just the larger / smaller sizes?


Just the larger or smaller sizes, and you can move them around the screen. There is no 50/50 split like you can do on most newer TVs.


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## lakebum431

The 50/50 split is something that I really wish they would add. I would love this feature for sports.


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## Rob Glasser

I agree. I use it on my TV for that a lot, but with 2 different receivers right now. Would be nice if the receiver had that built into it.


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## gregmisc

Great Job! Lays out information needed for non-622 owners and 622 owners.


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## DoyleS

Great read. My install date is Tuesday the 28 and the manual has put me to sleep a couple times. Your review was just what I needed. 

Thanks,

Doyle


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## lrk2

Great review, lots of detail.

I've ordered one and it should be installed on 3/12. Too long!

I currently record my OTA HD channels and SD Comcast channels using Windows MCE. I'm planning on hooking TV1 up to my HDTV, but would like to use the TV2 output to record SD channels on my Media Center PC using an IR blaster to control TV2.

So, is it possible to control TV2 using IR, or only UHF?

Thanks, Larry


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## Ron Barry

I believe you can only do TV2 using UHF. I have not heard of being able to control TV2 with IR.


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## Richard King

*Someone please verify this for me*, but something that those wanting to bring cable into the "off air" input is that I don't believe that it will demodulate "cable" signals. You will only get up to channel 12 on the cable line. Anything above that would be lost.


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## James Long

2-13 are VHF and would be tunable IF they were in ATSC.
14-69 UHF OTA also have their counterparts on 'cable' with different numbers.
There are a lot of cable channels in the gaps between the OTA VHF channels and between OTA VHF and UHF.

The biggest issue is would any cable channels be in ATSC? That's all the 622 can handle even if it could see the channel numbers.


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## Bill R

James Long said:


> The biggest issue is would any cable channels be in ATSC? That's all the 622 can handle even if it could see the channel numbers.


What the industry calls an ATSC tuner is really an 8VSB tuner. When cable companies started providing digital service they did use 8VSB but they abandoned it because it was very inefficient (for cable tranmission). The standard for digital channels via cable is QAM. There is not any DBS satellite receivers on the market that have a QAM tuner and there likely never will be. There isn't any cable STB that has a satellite tuner either and there likely never will be. Cable and satellite are two competing vendors and they are not going to provide equipment to tune "the other guys" channels.

Some of the (older) satellite receivers do have NTSC tuners so they can pick up either OTA analog or analog cable channels but, as noted, the ViP622 only has an ATSC tuner for OTA digital channels.


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## Curmudgeon

Good work, but please note that an LNB is not a "low noise blocker", as defined on the opening page...but is, in fact, a Low Noise Block downconverter.


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## Rob Glasser

Curmudgeon said:


> Good work, but please note that an LNB is not a "low noise blocker", as defined on the opening page...but is, in fact, a Low Noise Block downconverter.


Dang, google let me down  Thanks.


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## Richard King

James Long said:


> 2-13 are VHF and would be tunable IF they were in ATSC.
> 14-69 UHF OTA also have their counterparts on 'cable' with different numbers.
> There are a lot of cable channels in the gaps between the OTA VHF channels and between OTA VHF and UHF.
> 
> The biggest issue is would any cable channels be in ATSC? That's all the 622 can handle even if it could see the channel numbers.


Correct, I forgot about that little catch.


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## voyagerbob

Is there a limit to the numer of timers per tuner or collectively?

Thanks


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## BobMurdoch

Great job. I referred to it while I was hooking up my 622 last night. I especially liked the time estimates about the downloads. It eliminated the "did it or did it not lockup" moments we always see during an initial install.

The 622, like many other units doesn't indicate when it is rebooting. the screen just goes black, you see all the LEDs on the 622 light up for a millisecond, and then you wonder whether or not it is coming back on its own or whether you have to turn it on manually. I almost miss the silver coin medallion from the 921. At least I KNEW it was booting up again, even if it did take 5 minutes to do so.

E*, on a future release I suggest giving SOME kind of visual cue to help the impatient among us know when to leave the receiver alone or not......


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## Ron Barry

Moved the Phone Line converstation to its own thread. Ok.. lets get back on topic, I agree with rfowkes.. that one wondered off a bit. I deleted your post rfowkes because it no longer pertains.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=53902


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## Ron Barry

Moved the Native pass through posts over to another thread to allow for further discussion on this topic.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=53907


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## Walt C

I just noticed the 622 main video out is via HDMI connection. The 921 used a DVI output. Unless I'm mistaken this means another $50 (or more) out of our pockets to buy a new cable. Unless the installer will provide the cable:lol:


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## James Long

Or $20 (perhaps even $10) if you shop around.

Can't stay in the past forever. HDMI is better.


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## zer0cool

Don't know how valid this is, but my installer advised me to call dish and tell them thsat he did not have the HDMI cable on the truck and requesst that they send me one. Of course, I bought my own beforehand, but if I can get one from dish, I'll return the one I spent $60.00 on. Actually, if dish would just give me a credit, I'd be happy.


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## BobMurdoch

You can also reuse the existing cable and buy a HDMI-DVI converter for $25. I got a Monster brand one that works fine...... (But Best Buy doesn't carry the DVI Female-Male DVI you need to reuse your existing cable - you probably have to go online to find one)


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## rfowkes

Walt C said:


> I just noticed the 622 main video out is via HDMI connection. The 921 used a DVI output. Unless I'm mistaken this means another $50 (or more) out of our pockets to buy a new cable. Unless the installer will provide the cable:lol:


Ouch! Not necessary to spend that much, especially on digital cables of relatively short lengths. There are lots of places on the web to get good cables very inexpensively. I personally use monoprice.com and have been very happy with the quality and the service.


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## Vettman

I'm having the 622 installed next week. The receiver will be located in a bedroom approx. 75 feet from the dish 1000, 44 switch and VIP411 (in my living room). My questions: should I expect the installer to hook-up the phone line as part of the install? (phone outlet is 20 ft. from the receiver) Also should I expect the installer to run a 3rd coax for the OTA antenna?


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## redbird

Bill R said:


> What the industry calls an ATSC tuner is really an 8VSB tuner. When cable companies started providing digital service they did use 8VSB but they abandoned it because it was very inefficient (for cable tranmission). The standard for digital channels via cable is QAM. *There is not any DBS satellite receivers on the market that have a QAM tuner and there likely never will be*. There isn't any cable STB that has a satellite tuner either and there likely never will be. Cable and satellite are two competing vendors and they are not going to provide equipment to tune "the other guys" channels.
> 
> Just for reference, the 3750 is QAM and the 811 can be switched to QAM in the menu.


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## James Long

IIRC it is a flavor of QAM that E* cooked up for multiple unit installs. I doubt if there is compatability between it an what cable does.


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## Bucko

I had not read much about the wonderful 622's multimedia functions, but then discovered it in one of the menus. I loaded a group of digital photos onto the 622 hard drive thru the convenient usb 2 port on the front, using a simple card reader and compact flash card from my camera. After loading, I reviewed them with such greater clarity and size than on my pc monitor. Also a great slide show function. This capability should definitely be publicized! I was about to purchase a separate device for displaying large format digital photos, but saved that by having the 622!!!


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## Rob Glasser

Welcome to DBSTalk Bucko and thank you for your feedback.

That is a great idea. We didn't think about having a section on that, since at time we were focusing on new features since the 942. However, now that I think about it, the Picture feature wasn't active on the 942 when Mark wrote his 942 review so it's not in there. I'll see if we can add a section on that to a later revision.


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## bff426

page 26 of the review talks about audio synchronization being set to either high definition or standard definition. Can someone explain that? I have had a constant problem with audio synchronization on the Voom channels, with the audio being a fraction of a second ahead of the video. Very annoying! (I have the 942, a part in considering upgrading to the 622)


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## leatherman

BobMurdoch said:


> You can also reuse the existing cable and buy a HDMI-DVI converter for $25. I got a Monster brand one that works fine...... (But Best Buy doesn't carry the DVI Female-Male DVI you need to reuse your existing cable - you probably have to go online to find one)


My VIP622 was installed on 4/4/2006. I had to buy a hdmi to dvi cable to attach the receiver to my SONY 65" TV. I have been using DISH HD with a DVI connection for 1 1/2 year with no problems. For about a week, the new VIP622 worked well but, all of a sudden, the DVI signal quit working. I exchanged my $150 Monster hdmi/dvi cable for another thinking it might me a bad cable but no change.
Talked with DISH support on Saturday 4/15 and they first tried to tell me i probably had a bad tv. finally, they put me on hold while they tested an hdmi/dvi cable in their lab and had similar results. they said they were able to mess with the sequence of power up in the lab and could get it to work and that may work for me on a temporary basis. They said that the engineers would be working to fix the problem and that the fix would be included in a future support download. I cant get the power up sequence to work for me so i am watching everything through the s-video connection through my VCR. This sucks. Anyone else having problems?


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## leatherman

My VIP622 was installed on 4/4/2006. I had to buy a hdmi to dvi cable to attach the receiver to my SONY 65" TV. I have been using DISH HD with a DVI connection for 1 1/2 year with no problems. For about a week, the new VIP622 worked well but, all of a sudden, the DVI signal quit working. I exchanged my $150 Monster hdmi/dvi cable for another thinking it might me a bad cable but no change.
Talked with DISH support on Saturday 4/15 and they first tried to tell me i probably had a bad tv. finally, they put me on hold while they tested an hdmi/dvi cable in their lab and they received similar results. they said they were able to mess with the sequence of power up in the lab and could get it to work and that may work for me on a temporary basis. They said that the engineers would be working to fix the problem and that the fix would be included in a future support download. They said it was not a problem with the receiver or the TV but a problem in the communication with the two through the HDMI/DVI convertor cable. I cant get the power up sequence to work for me so i am watching everything through the s-video connection through my VCR-believe it or not, this is supperior to the component connection through my VCR. This sucks. Anyone else having problems? I am assuming that a "fix" downloaded last week that caused the new problem.


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## dirtydan

Do you turn on tv first? I have instructions for my Toshiba that the communication has to have tv turned on first, ymmv

Edit: also use reverse order when shutting down..


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## boylehome

My 3rd ViP622 was installed and activated April 27, 2006. The original install date was April 14, 2006, then pushed to April 24, 2006, then pushed to May 5, 2006. The installer arrived on the April 24 install but the 622 didn't. He verified existing equipment like dishes, switches, etc. He said that if the receiver came before the May 5 install date to call his cell and he would come and activate (pretty nice!). The 622 is Version, "D." He arrived 2 minutes after the latest software version finished installing. Activation was a snap. The receiver is working great so far.

Okay, here is one thing that I guess others have not suffered. all three 622's were shipped without a component cable included. There is a coax, S-video, and composite. For those who have a component cable included, my hat is off to you.

Now If I can do the upgrade deal for my remaining 921, I'll be set until the next debut of a newer model with more bells and whistles.


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## gsxltd

Great document very detailed. The issue I have with this is that it states that all 3 tuners are HD. I am currently a DTV customer and I am considering moving to Dish because I am getting tired of waiting for them to release their mpeg4 HD DVR. In the past week I have spoken to 4 different people at Dish about the VIP622 and I have specifically asked if both SAT tuners are HD and been told that 1 is HD and the other is SD. I was told this by 2 people in sales and I also called tech support and was told the same thing by 2 different people there as well. My thought is that they are confusing tuners with outputs? not sure. I currently have a HR10-250 and I don't want to loose the ability to record 2 HD shows simultaneously while watching another recorded program, my wife would KILL me. Can someone help clear this up for me? Thanks.


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## guruka

Yes, they are confusing tuners with outputs. TV 1 is HD and TV 2 is SD.

All three tuners are HD.

.....G


----------



## dlhuse

CSRs also have a hard time believing that you can actually record three programs at the same time.

Now a question. Am I to believe the CSR that local channel 008-00 (not to be confused with (HD 008-01) is just a mapped 8400 from the bird and not the local analog signal? If it's true why have the locals at the 8400 range?

I have gone thru the menu series, 6-9-sat locals to disable and nothing happens. HD Priority is always selected. 50% of the time, the box reboots upon exit.

CSR seemed as confused as I was and not a lot of help.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

dlhuse said:


> Now a question. Am I to believe the CSR that local channel 008-00 (not to be confused with (HD 008-01) is just a mapped 8400 from the bird and not the local analog signal? If it's true why have the locals at the 8400 range?


The mapping (or remapping) of channels is just that, a remapping for your convenience.

Dish has to transmit the channel somewhere, and there are lots of "channel 5" around the country... so Dish sticks them up at 8400 or wherever... then they provide a channel re-mapping feature in the receiver so at the local level your receiver can re-map the 8400 channel to your local channel number for convenience to you.

Each channel on Dish has to have a unique channel number... so they can't just push it on channel 5 for everyone who has a channel 5... so that's ultimately the reason why it has to be at 8400 or wherever.


----------



## olgeezer

Have had unit since 2/1. The code was evidently the first production run (A) Have had one hiccup and one burp. Dish threw me over there collective shoulder and got rid of the gas. I am still in love with this machine. It is an amazing wonderful piece of equipment that I'm growing into.


----------



## titansky

:nono: Why has D* taken away the feature available in the 921 and 811 (EPG for OTA channels without sat subscribe)? I had a 921 and I have an 811. In my 42101 zip locals are not available from Dish. I had the EPG with both these receivers without sub to locals from D*. Now the 622 is promoted has bigger, better, wonderful, etc but the DVR functionality for OTA channels is gone. Manual timers are not a substitute for true DVR EPG point and click timer setting. Not to mention data about programs. D* has done a major disservice to the customer by taking away a very important part of the DVR's function-- local channel EPG and ease of recording. I would pay the $5 for locals from sat but it will be years or never before locals are available from D* in this area. They are busy getting HD locals avail but we've never had locals of any type avail for 10 years!! This was not disclosed in any info before making decsion to move from 921 to 622. What does it take to get this corrected?? I am very dissatisfied with loss of OTA EPG info. CS offers no help. "I'm sorry that's not available." This is entirely unacceptable. Many D* customers will be in this situation, not just me. The DVR 622 review in this forum overlooks this problem as well. HELP!!!


----------



## Rob Glasser

titansky said:


> :nono: Why has D* taken away the feature available in the 921 and 811 (EPG for OTA channels without sat subscribe)? I had a 921 and I have an 811.


First, Welcome titansky to DBSTalk.com. Also, as far as abbreviations go D* indicates DirectTV while E* indicates Echostar (DISH Network).

As for this feature. My understanding is you had to subscribe to locals to get EPG guide on the 921, and part 3 of the 942 review, page 63, backs that up. This was the same with the 942. No subscription, no EPG. That is why it was not mentioned in the 622 review, nothing had changed. I am not sure how/why you got that information on your 921 without having a subscription to DISH provided locals.

If DISH does not provide locals to your area, I'm curious how you could ever have had EPG information? If they don't carry the channel how do they know what is on that channel? Primetime of major networks I could understand, based on timezone, but for the smaller networks or local shows I don't get.


----------



## gglockner

Although I did not appreciate the rude tone, I definitely agree with the critics of this review who say that it reads like an instruction manual.

What I really want to know is how easy is the DVR to program. Does it offer name based recording, or only timeslot recording? How reliable is the DVR -- does it record all programs reliably? Reading the forums on the various Dish DVRs and the latest R15 from D*, I get the impression that no one can make a reliable, easy-to-use DVR except TiVo.

So I'm sitting on the fence, waiting to see what to get when I finally upgrade to HD. The HR10-250 is a product with a limited lifespan because of the move to MPEG4, so the upcoming Series 3 TiVo looks attractive. But I'd rather stay with satellite. But I have read such criticism of the Dish DVRs and the R15 from D* that I am sitting back and waiting.

I'm much more interested in knowing whether the device will actually record my programs reliably, regardless of timeslots or conflicts. I can read the manual online to figure out how many connections it has, what kind of remote it supports, how many tuners it supports, or where to find something on the menus. And this is why the review is lacking. Too bad, since it looks like someone put a lot of time in writing the review.


----------



## DoyleS

I have had the 622 since Feb 28. I have not experienced any missed recordings. I had a Tivo and have since given it to my son so I am familiar with its capability. The 622 is very easy to program. I don't use the name based feature that much but have used it a few times. It has the ability to do one time record, first run only or daily or weekly timer based recordings. I think it is a great unit. Dish is working on activating supplemental storage through its USB port and at that point this will be a killer box in my opinion. I think there are always a some personal preferences as to how these boxes are operated. But this is a high feature box. Initially it took me awhile to get used to where some menu features were as they were not in the same location as on previous Dish DVRs but that is no different than buying a car and having the windshield washer controls in a different location. I would highly recommend it. Dish seems to be putting the effort in and the complaint level on this box surely seems much lower than on either the 921 or the 942 which were the previous generations. YMMV

..Doyle


----------



## Rob Glasser

gglockner said:


> What I really want to know is how easy is the DVR to program.


Alot about this was covered in the 942 review, since the 622 interface is almost identical to the 942 we decided not to re-invent the wheel but instead point users to that review to come up to speed on the interface. Page 6 of the 622 review directs you to read the 942 review if you are not familiar with it.



> Does it offer name based recording, or only timeslot recording?


This feature was in the 942 so it was not specifically listed as a new feature for 942 users, however it is listed on Page 6 as a new feature for those coming from a 921.



> How reliable is the DVR -- does it record all programs reliably?


Your right, there is not a lot of information about the reliablity. A lot of that was left out at the time because this review was written in the first few days of it's release. Long time reliabity was hard to judge. I suggest that maybe you check out some of the reviews that came out later, here are a couple of links:

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/...1956226,00.asp
http://reviews.cnet.com/Dish_Network...2.html?tag=nav

Personally I have found the reliablity great. The unit is as reliable as my 942, light years beyond what my 921 was.



> Reading the forums on the various Dish DVRs and the latest R15 from D*, I get the impression that no one can make a reliable, easy-to-use DVR except TiVo.


I can imagine that this would be your opinion based on "Support Forums". This is where people come to ask for help with problems that they are having or vent their frustrations. Those that are not having problems do not post that information, for the most part. Please keep that in mind as you read through this and any other site.



> ... And this is why the review is lacking. Too bad, since it looks like someone put a lot of time in writing the review.


I'm sorry our review did not meet your expectations, perhaps one of the others will help you. This review was meant for 921 and 942 users that were looking to upgrade to the 622. And at the time it was written not many people have 622's so reading the manual was not an option. People wanted to know the layout of the menus, the outputs on the unit, etc ... Really I should have named the document a First Look. Hopefully you'll find the information you need in other threads here or in the other reviews I linked above.


----------



## robre

titansky said:


> :nono: Why has D* taken away the feature available in the 921 and 811 (EPG for OTA channels without sat subscribe)? I had a 921 and I have an 811. In my 42101 zip locals are not available from Dish. I had the EPG with both these receivers without sub to locals from D*. Now the 622 is promoted has bigger, better, wonderful, etc but the DVR functionality for OTA channels is gone. Manual timers are not a substitute for true DVR EPG point and click timer setting. Not to mention data about programs. D* has done a major disservice to the customer by taking away a very important part of the DVR's function-- local channel EPG and ease of recording. I would pay the $5 for locals from sat but it will be years or never before locals are available from D* in this area. They are busy getting HD locals avail but we've never had locals of any type avail for 10 years!! This was not disclosed in any info before making decsion to move from 921 to 622. What does it take to get this corrected?? I am very dissatisfied with loss of OTA EPG info. CS offers no help. "I'm sorry that's not available." This is entirely unacceptable. Many D* customers will be in this situation, not just me. The DVR 622 review in this forum overlooks this problem as well. HELP!!!


Sorry if this has been asked before. I understand that you do not get OTA info for OTA channels without paying the ransom for locals to Dish, but do you at least get the channel listing of the scanned locals in the EPG with "no info" listed for the channels so you can easily select a channel from the EPG? Or if you do not subscribe to locals, is the only way to select a local to enter the local channel number from the remote? It is bad enough that Dish will be extorting $6 a month to watch "free" OTA HD programs after paying to own a 622 (with no HD subscription).


----------



## James Long

If you don't subscribe to locals the current receivers (ViP series and 921/942 DVRs) will show local OTAs in the guide with no info.

You can manually set timers (very manually) and record what you are watching. Name based recording doesn't work without EPG.


----------



## Ron Barry

gglockner said:


> I'm much more interested in knowing whether the device will actually record my programs reliably, regardless of timeslots or conflicts. I can read the manual online to figure out how many connections it has, what kind of remote it supports, how many tuners it supports, or where to find something on the menus. And this is why the review is lacking. Too bad, since it looks like someone put a lot of time in writing the review.


Every review I have ever read has always left questions unknown. Especially in terms of reliability. Reviews are always written early in a products life and usually with minimal runtime so personally I would question any early review that made claims in terms of reliability.

I have had my 622s for a while now. There is one know issue I am aware of dealing with missed timers and there is a work around. Personally I have not missed any events I have set timers for on both my 622s.

I also recieved what I considered a bad 622 out of the box. Resulted in a lot of reboots and what one would consider reliability. Since I have received a replacment none of the issues I had with the orginal box has surficed. I have drawn the conclusion I got a bad production unit.

Like Rob said, forums are where people come when they have issues or want to voice their opinions about features they are not happy with. You always read a negative slant on these type of forums and if I didn't I would be skeptical of the forum itself.


----------



## lbeck

Lots of posts here, and I have only scanned through them. Forgive me if my query has been addressed.

I have an old JVC DVHS receiver and I'm lusting aver the 622 since coming to this forum for other reasons. I keep reading here about "the upgrade." I purchased my receiver from an online store (not Dish Network) 5 years or so ago and installed it myself. Will Dish upgrade a user purchased/installed receiver? What's their charges? I did a Google search and find that I can buy a 622 for around $500. I'm looking for my least expensive option. I'm fairly technical and believe that I can do all the hookups etc. myself.

Also, I have an HDTV but do not currently receive (pay for) HD programming. My Dish subscription also doesn't have a DVR add-on and I pay for one receiver only. Will I be charged for 2 receivers since the 622 has TV1 and TV2? What additional mothly charges will I incur by purchasing the 622?

I've heard some bad reports from early DVR owners that recording may be interrupted in the middle of a program due to DVR (i.e., not weather or power related) issues. Also some problems with audio/video syncronization. Have these bugs been worked out with the DVR hardware? This would be a deal-breaker for me since I record a lot for watching later and these issues would drive me crazy. Is another "latest and greatest" receiver looming on the horizon? My current equipment still works and I don't want to upgrade then be sorry later this year that I didn't wait.

Finally, What's the differences between a 622 and a 625. I don't see a 625 thread on this forum so I'm assuming that the 622 is the latest, but that would be a strange numbering system (going backwards).

Thanks for your help.


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## Ron Barry

622 is an HD DVR. The 625 is a SD DVR. That is where the differences start. Even though the UI looks similar, really hard to compare them since they are different class of receiver. Better comparision is the 622 and 942 and that is done in the 622 review.


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## lbeck

> 622 is an HD DVR. The 625 is a SD DVR.


Thanks. That's an important first step. Obviously since I'm wanting to stay ahead of the technology curve on my next purchase, I'll only consider the HD model. One important component of my initial post is monthly fees. Do I need to pay for HD if I have the receiver or only when I choose to receive HD signals. Also, is there a DVR fee?

My other questions remain. I'm learning.

Thanks.


----------



## Jim5506

lbeck said:


> Thanks. That's an important first step. Obviously since I'm wanting to stay ahead of the technology curve on my next purchase, I'll only consider the HD model. One important component of my initial post is monthly fees. Do I need to pay for HD if I have the receiver or only when I choose to receive HD signals. Also, is there a DVR fee?
> 
> My other questions remain. I'm learning.
> 
> Thanks.


You must purchase the 622 to have it without HD programming, and then there is a $6 fee for not having HD programming plus a $6 DVR fee also.

622's are going for around $400 or so.


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## adamevans

I like the review a lot.

However, I would've liked to have seen some screenshots of the new channel guide.


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## Rob Glasser

adamevans said:


> I like the review a lot.
> 
> However, I would've liked to have seen some screenshots of the new channel guide.


Welcome to DBSTAlk and thanks for the feedback.

As far as the channel guide, check out the 942 review that is linked in the 622 review. The 942 review that Mark Lamutt wrote shows all of that and a lot more about the GUI and Name Based Recording. Since that didn't change between the 942 and the 622 it wasn't covered again in the 622 review.

Let me know if that doesn't answer your questions and I'll see if I can help answer them for you.


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## jsluga

First of all, thanks for hosting this thread! I've learned more in the past 45 minutes here than I have in the past month at Circuit City, Fry's, and Best Buy, combined!!

Secondly, my situation: I have a Dish 921 receiver in my home theater which is richly stocked with Pioneer Elite receiver/DVD player/speakers/HD TV, so I know a little bit about HD programming and DVR. My knowledge, however, is somewhat dated: thus, my research on the threads at DBSTalk.

I recently purchased and installed an LG 42PC3DH TV for another room, which gets its television programming via a DishNetwork 522 DVR. I am contemplating trading in the 522 to Dish N/W for the new 622 and running the signal from that, along with the DVD player signal, through a new Sony switching A/V receiver, probably running component video cables and a digital optical sound cable into the A/V receiver from the DVD player and an HDMI cable from the 622 into the A/V receiver with another HDMI cable running from the A/V receiver into the LG television. (I plan to control everything with a Harmony remote control, BTW, but that probably isn't germane to this discussion. 

Questions: #1—Is the setup I've described optimal or should I do someting different? The legion of problems about which I have read on the various threads here have me somewhat daunted. #2—Should I really upgrade to the 622 when the 522 works perfectly? I realize that threads usually only broadcast the problems and not the triumphs of new technolgy. I'm hoping that is the case here. #3—I saw an ad from a highly rated internet vendor for the 522 and the needed antenna upgrade for just over $500. This seems better to me than the best deal offered by Dish N/W at this time. Can you advise me on that, as well? I am willing to trade in my 522, but the 921 (a replacement from an original failure, actually) is functioning qute well, and I don't require additional HD programming in the home theater room just yet. I an competent to install the new antenna and run the additional cable along the existing two cables to the 622 if that is what the new installation requires. Please advise me if you can.

I tried to take care of a swap order by calling the DishNetwork NONsupport line TWICE, but failed both times. The first time, the young woman was so ill-infomred re: DishNetwork products that she quoted me several different prices for the same programming packages! After about 30 minutes of talking to her, I hung up the telephone in despair. This morning, I called again. This disservice operator's headset was picking up so much background conversation that I told her repeatedly that I could not understand what she was saying and asked to speak to a supervisor. When the supervisor came on the line, his headset picked up the same background conversation. He said their was a meeting going on. He changed headsets to a different type, and then I could not hear him at all because of static coming from the headset! Oh, well!

BTW, FOG means Fat Old Guy.


----------



## Rob Glasser

Welcome to DBSTalk jsluga and thanks for the compliment.

To quickly answer your question, yes, what you want to do should work. The 622 should just drop into the location that your 522 is at. They both take the same number of Sat feeds. As far as the feeds into your AVR I'm going to assume it can do Component and HDMI switching and leave it at that.

Should you do it? If you want to use the new LG to it's fullest and have HD on it then yes. If your happy with SD content on it then no.

As far as getting a 622, the cheapest route is probably to lease one from Dish. This will cost you $199, but there is currently a $10 for 10 months credit for signing up to a new DishHD package for the first time (their bronze, silver, gold or platinum packages). There is a good thread over on the Dish HD forum that describes the offers: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=59333. If you do this lease deal it includes installation, including any new dishes you'd need to get all the new programming. Depending on your location that would mean adding a dish that could pick up 129 or one to pick up 61.5 if you don't have either one yet.

You can send in your 522 and get a small credit but I don't think it would be much, maybe only $25.00. If you own the 522 and don't want it anymore I'd suggest selling it on eBay or craigslist.

If you prefer to go the buy route you can can shop online for one, order from Dish directly or go through a local installer. In the past I've even seen them for sale at Costco, though I'm not sure if they are still there or not. If you go that route your probably looking at $450 - $500.

Hope this helps.


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## jsluga

Thanks for the reply, Rob. Very thorough. I'll probably go the lease from Dish route if I can get a Costomer Support Rep that can really help me!


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## jerrynorton

I've had my ViP622 since April. There was a few things the installer didn't set up correctly, but I'm pretty good at following instruction manuals. Since then it has performed flawlessly. Well, you have to unplug it from the wall once in a great while when it gets stuck and just sits there. The software upgrades it installs at night have made it more fault resistant. I think mine is the B revision too. An early mainboard, but like I said, I am very happy with its performance.

It runs real hot, especially in the summer. About 128 degrees Fahrenheit on average. Which brings me to my question. Has anyone tried swapping out their hard drive for one with more capacity? I've never opened mine up, but I was able to ascertain that it uses a SATA hard drive. Donno whether it's SATA I or SATA II. It's either 250 Gb or 320 Gb. I guess the thing to do is try it. Someone said the ViP622 will download the operating system onto a blank drive from the satellite. I'm not usually a pioneer on things like this as long as it's working correctly. Keep waiting for that hard drive to burn up so I'll have just cause, but I would like more than 30 hours HD recording time.

Sorry if this has been addressed on another thread. The search terms are so generic, "upgrade vip622 hard drive", "increase hard drive capacity vip622", etc., that I have a difficult time returning useful search results. But I'm a noob on this forum.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Ron Barry

I am not aware of anyone that has swapped out the drive, but doing so would void the warranty I believe. If I recall there is a temper seal on it.

Based on info from Dish, External USB archival support is coming... Hopefully we will see it soon and that will allow one to transfer shows to an external drive and thus providing more storage.


----------



## BobMurdoch

Ron Barry said:


> I am not aware of anyone that has swapped out the drive, but doing so would void the warranty I believe. If I recall there is a temper seal on it.
> 
> Based on info from Dish, External USB archival support is coming... Hopefully we will see it soon and that will allow one to transfer shows to an external drive and thus providing more storage.


Wait for CES in Vegas this month. New goodies usually follow a few months thereafter.

Also, I highly recommend getting the extended warranty (a monthly surcharge on your monthly bill). PVRs are prone to hardware failure, and E* will replace the receiver AND pay the freight both ways if you have it.


----------



## jerrynorton

BobMurdoch said:


> PVRs are prone to hardware failure, and E* will replace the receiver AND pay the freight both ways if you have it.


Hmm. Wouldn't they do that anyway if they want me to keep paying my bill (beyond the 18 month contract period)? Maybe not pay the freight, but I think they would definitely have to fix my box if it breaks. Don't they?

Thanks for the info guys. I was thinking maybe I'd just buy a 750 Gb Seagate and try it out. I know it voids the warranty. If it didn't work, I could just use it in my computer. If it did work, I'd use the drive out of the ViP622 in my computer. In any event I'd have more storage capacity somewhere.

Let me know if you hear of anyone who has tried it and what the results were.


----------



## Jim5506

Warranty on leased units is 1 year, after that repairs are your responsibility, but Dish has a Dish Home protection plan that you can subscribe to it if your unit fails, get it repaired for reduced cost, then drop coverage.


----------



## acidscan

Thank you for the review, great work !


----------



## Rob Glasser

acidscan said:


> Thank you for the review, great work !


Thank you acidscan and Welcome to DBSTalk. I hope this site is able to help you out.


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## asher

Somebody asked this question way back at the beginning of the thread and was never answered - does anybody know if the receiver requires HDCP support in the display to work over HDMI? I tried asking Dish, and they basically don't know. 

The context of the question - I'm trying to get my 622 to work with my non-HDCP TV (which is actually a DVI input), and I get a black screen. Seems likely that it's just a bad HDMI port like everybody else's, but I also got the same symptom with a brand-new upscaling DVD player which was documented to require HDCP support. I've tried the TV with a DVI laptop, so I know that the input works.

Thanks,
Aaron


----------



## WynsWrld98

Anyone have info of when the ViP622-1 (500 GB hard drive) version announced at CES will be available? When the new DISH promotions start February 1 is that with the ViP622-1 or the ViP622? I'm considering switching to DISH Network is why I'm asking...


----------



## santafeguy

HDMe said:


> The mapping (or remapping) of channels is just that, a remapping for your convenience.
> 
> Dish has to transmit the channel somewhere, and there are lots of "channel 5" around the country... so Dish sticks them up at 8400 or wherever... then they provide a channel re-mapping feature in the receiver so at the local level your receiver can re-map the 8400 channel to your local channel number for convenience to you.
> 
> Each channel on Dish has to have a unique channel number... so they can't just push it on channel 5 for everyone who has a channel 5... so that's ultimately the reason why it has to be at 8400 or wherever.


Ok, I am planning on switching to DISH from Comcrap. I am trying to get my head around the re-mapping, since I've never seen it before. :grin: I completely understand the concept. Just so I am clear though: I can program the Vip622 to say that the HD NBC channel is 4 not 6326 (as is the case here in New Mexico)?

So, if I were to set a timer it would record it on 4 as an HD? Again, pardon my naivete` just cus I am used to comcast where the SD channel is the local number...in this case 4, and the HD is a separate channel. So, If I want to record a show that is in HD I have to make sure I have specified the HD channel not the standard number.


----------



## Ron Barry

Actually... You don't program it.. Not sure if you will be using OTA... I will cover both.

What you do is scan your OTA channels in. They have a frequency to channel mapping that dish uses. There also is your HD locals that are supported in some areas (6326 sounds like one).

Here is what the 622 can do.

HD Priority setting

Maps SD locals to 0X-00 slot.
Maps HD locals to 0X-01.. 0X-02 etc.

Example: 
SoCal NBC

04-00 : Dish HD NBC
04-01: NBC OTA
04-02: NBC sub channel #1

SD mapping
04-00 :SD NBC
04-01: OTBA NBC
04-02: NBC sub channel #1

See more in section 5.3 of the review.
http://www.dbstalk.com/622review/DBSTalkViP622Review.pdf

If not... check out the 942 review. It has EPG pictures that should help.

Hope this makes sense.


----------



## santafeguy

Ron Barry said:


> Actually... You don't program it.. Not sure if you will be using OTA... I will cover both.
> 
> What you do is scan your OTA channels in. They have a frequency to channel mapping that dish uses. There also is your HD locals that are supported in some areas (6326 sounds like one).
> 
> Here is what the 622 can do.
> 
> 
> Ron Barry said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, now I understand.  That was a great review, I had read the CNET one, but yours is much more thorough. Thanks!  Here in Santa Fe they aren't OTA, the can come through the Dish itself. Well except CBS, which isn't carried on HD by any carrier because they are greedy and want more money.
> 
> I noticed one of the pics that there was a pop up about having a home phone, or getting a monthly charge. I called them and was told you only have to have a phone line if you want caller id. :nono: But as we all know, Cust. Serv. Reps. are wrong more than 1/2 the time.  Does anyone know for sure, as I only use Cell, don't have a home phone.
Click to expand...


----------



## Ron Barry

Ohh... forgot to :welcome_s you. : )

Yes, the 622 has a requirement to have a phone line connected or get a additional fee. I would do a search on the forum for further discussions on this topic. I know there are threads dealing with this subject and I don't recall if some people have been able to get around this issue.


----------



## c4racer

Quick question - the -622 will support both TV1 and TV2 watching different recorded programs at the same time, correct? 

I have an install scheduled for tomorrow.


----------



## Ron Barry

Yes.. when in dual mode.


----------



## JCN

jerrynorton said:


> Hmm. Wouldn't they do that anyway if they want me to keep paying my bill (beyond the 18 month contract period)? Maybe not pay the freight, but I think they would definitely have to fix my box if it breaks. Don't they?
> 
> Thanks for the info guys. I was thinking maybe I'd just buy a 750 Gb Seagate and try it out. I know it voids the warranty. If it didn't work, I could just use it in my computer. If it did work, I'd use the drive out of the ViP622 in my computer. In any event I'd have more storage capacity somewhere.
> 
> Let me know if you hear of anyone who has tried it and what the results were.


I know it has been done with the SA8300 cable box. I believe on that hard drive they had a dye or something like that, that showed if it has been touched. It can be done if you just take time and be careful. It was discussed on the AVS forum.


----------



## RonS

WynsWrld98 said:


> Anyone have info of when the ViP622-1 (500 GB hard drive) version announced at CES will be available? When the new DISH promotions start February 1 is that with the ViP622-1 or the ViP622? I'm considering switching to DISH Network is why I'm asking...


Does anyone have any info on this request? I am thinking about buying another 622 and would prefer the higher capacity if it will be available soon.

Thanks


----------



## Idahonuke

Hullo,

I'm a newbie, so I apollogize if this is allready covered, but I could not find it.

I have direct v with an HR20. I hate it. HATE it! And I don't use that term lightly. I was thinking about switching to the netwerk with a vip622. My main concern with the HR20, is it doesn't record what I want it to, and it records things I don't subscribe to. Basically I can't make it work. It's a minor complaint. I am probably asking too much.

So, my question is this. Will the vip622 try to record programs on channels that are not subscribed? My HR20 does this 24/7/365.


----------



## tomcrown1

Idahonuke said:


> Hullo,
> 
> I'm a newbie, so I apollogize if this is allready covered, but I could not find it.
> 
> I have direct v with an HR20. I hate it. HATE it! And I don't use that term lightly. I was thinking about switching to the netwerk with a vip622. My main concern with the HR20, is it doesn't record what I want it to, and it records things I don't subscribe to. Basically I can't make it work. It's a minor complaint. I am probably asking too much.
> 
> So, my question is this. Will the vip622 try to record programs on channels that are not subscribed? My HR20 does this 24/7/365.


??? My vip622 only records what I program it to record. If i do not subscribe to a service like the Playboy ??? i cannot record it.


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## Rob Glasser

Idahonuke said:


> Hullo,
> 
> I'm a newbie, so I apollogize if this is allready covered, but I could not find it.
> 
> I have direct v with an HR20. I hate it. HATE it! And I don't use that term lightly. I was thinking about switching to the netwerk with a vip622. My main concern with the HR20, is it doesn't record what I want it to, and it records things I don't subscribe to. Basically I can't make it work. It's a minor complaint. I am probably asking too much.
> 
> So, my question is this. Will the vip622 try to record programs on channels that are not subscribed? My HR20 does this 24/7/365.


Welcome to DBSTalk Idahonuke. To answer your question briefly, no it will not. It records only what you set timers up for. However, if you setup a DishPASS recording and the search criteria is pretty vague you may end up with more than your bargained for. Other than that every once in a while you get a small SD Dish Network recording about features or billing information, but they are pretty rare, at least for me. They only usually last a couple minutes and take up almost no hard drive space.


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## Ron Barry

:welcome_s Idahonuke. 

My two 622s record what I have selected it to record. As far as I know there is no reports of people getting recordings that they did not set up. If you hit the DVR button three times on the 622 you get a list of Scheduled recordings and a list of what was recorded. From my experiences these match up. 

Not sure how the HR20 works since I don't have one. before Jumping have you looked into the D* forums and perhaps there is a solution to your HR20 issues... 

I guess your main question is.. Is the 622 record shows reliably. My opinion is yes based on having two 622s for close to a year.


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## BobMurdoch

Yeah, be careful with DishPass. I tried to have it look for all recurrences of the show Las Vegas on any network... It wound up recording show that had Las Vegas in the title OR in the description (lots of travel shows, etc.)

Then again, I have it set up to record anything that says New York Giants, and all I got were the local football games, none of the shows that air on the RSNs about the team, so go figure.


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## Idahonuke

tomcrown1 said:


> ??? My vip622 only records what I program it to record. If i do not subscribe to a service like the Playboy ??? i cannot record it.


Wow, that was quick. Thanks guys. I will look to see if there is a work around for the hr20.

Just to clarify, I will explain exactly what my problem is...

I set up a search for Soccer in the title. Since this sport is rarely broadcast, I am hoping to catch any games I can. However, there are soccer-specific channels availlable on direct v that I don't subscribe to. So it spends all day 'recording' these. Even though there is nothing there. They fill up my List. But it somehow misses all the games on ESPN and ESPN2 and their HD counterparts. Occasionally it will catch one. But I missed the US/Ecquador game this weekend.

The other gripe I have with direct v is that 2 of the big 4 networks denied my request to get the west/east coast channels. So I couldn't watch the super bowl, for example. Unless I wanted to hook up an antenna. HD can give me locals (or maybe the coastal stations, can't remember).

Thanks again!


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## Ron Barry

Well I know the Dish 622 does not do record stations that you do not currently sub to... If the HR20 is still doing that, boy I would say the grass is greener.


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## daddywags

I am thinking of dumping direct tv due to the hr 20 i have to get.i have a hr10 250 whats the difference on a vip622


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## ChuckA

Read the review and ask specific questions. Most of us here never had a HR10 250 to know the difference.


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## Rob Glasser

Definitely read the review, also check out the other sticky threads at the top of this forum. Ron and others have linked in some very good threads and documents pertaining to the 622. Once you have done that is you have any additional questions we'd be more than happy to try and answer them. I personally do not have any DirecTV experience though so I can only tell you what the 622 can and can not do, I can't really compare it to the HR10-250 or any other DirecTV receiver.


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## prejeand

First, the review was excellent and much is confirmed in another review done on cNet. As final confirmation, I have just gotten off the phone with a technical guy from Dish Network and now I am totally confused. As a 10+ year Dish customer I am in the process of upgrading to HDTV and have spent countless hours on the internet reading everything I could find about the various HD DVRs available. I currently have a 721 and am pleased that I am able to record 2 SD shows and watch something that I have previously recorded. Based on your article and the cNet one I got excited that I could do the same and with a OTA antenna maybe even a bit more with the 622. The guy at Dish Network popped by balloon. He said that I could record one in HD and one in SD and watch one that I had previously recorded. According to him, adding OTA, made no difference--only one HD recording at a time. Help! Is he correct or can I record 3 HD shows at once as you (and cNet) say in the reviews. What about watching a previously taped show while I record. Sorry to be so verbose but I have sort of hit the frustration wall! I would appreciate any help or advice. Thanks!


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## James Long

You can, and we have been able to, record three HD at the same time.
One OTA HD and two via satellite HD.

Plus you can play back two different previous DVR events at the same time (if you really want to push the 622).


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## prejeand

James Long said:


> You can, and we have been able to, record three HD at the same time.
> One OTA HD and two via satellite HD.
> 
> Plus you can play back two different previous DVR events at the same time (if you really want to push the 622).


Thank you for the positive information. Is there somewhere I should look for instructions on exactly how to do this or just get the unit and "have at it"?


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## James Long

Just set three things to record at the same time ... two on TV1 and one on TV2 (or if in single mode one will show up as being recorded on TV2 while the others will appear to be recorded on TV1).


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## Ron Barry

prejeand said:


> Thank you for the positive information. Is there somewhere I should look for instructions on exactly how to do this or just get the unit and "have at it"?


:welcome_s prejand... You might want to hold of a month or so for HDTV since it appears that the 722 is scheduled for release in August. IF it hold true then you might be able to get the 722 instead of the 622 and get the additional hard drive space thought we are hearing conflicting information if the user will actually see some of that space be used for personal recording.


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## Stewart Vernon

prejeand said:


> Thank you for the positive information. Is there somewhere I should look for instructions on exactly how to do this or just get the unit and "have at it"?


To quote the Nike ads... "Just do it" 

Really, it is far simpler than the CSRs (and even the manual for that matter) make it seem. As James says, there are 3 tuners... 2 for satellite and 1 for OTA. So if you hook up an OTA antenna, you have the ability to record 3 different programs at the same time... and can even watch 2 pre-recorded programs while that is going on!

It really is as simple as just setting timers for three different channels. Just make sure you don't try and set 2 timers for multiple OTA channels at the same time or you will get a conflict of course since there is just the 1 OTA tuner. Some folks see that message and get confused about the rest of the features.


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## lbeck

> two on TV1 and one on TV2


You can do this. Really? Even with all being satellite?

I've had my 622 for a little over a year and still am being confused by its capabilities. I'm not complaining. Anything with the extensive capabilities of this machine will be complicated. But how do you record two programs on TV1 at the same time? Do you need to be in single or dual mode? And I'm assuming that this needs to be set up with the timers and not "on the fly"? It seems that there have been times that I've been watching a program and then decide to record the rest of it and change the channel to watch something else live, and my 622 says that if I switch channels that it will stop recording.


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## ChuckA

You can record only two satellite programs at once. To record three things at once, one of them must be an OTA program.


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## lbeck

> You can record only two satellite programs at once.


okay - Thanks

Now, how do you do the scenario that I described?

1 - you're watching program A and decide to recore the rest of it, so you press the record button and respond to the pop-up screens

2 - you go to change the channel to watch/record program B and you get a message "this will stop the recording...."

Apparently you need to direct the 622 to do the recording on the *other* tuner, but I haven't figured out how to switch tuners mid-stream. Probably simple. But what's the procedure?


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## ChuckA

Are you in Single mode or Dual mode? Do you have an OTA antenna or not? If Single mode, just press the Swap key on the remote to swap to the other tuner and then change the channel on that tuner. If you are in Dual mode you can not use the other satellite tuner on TV1. In Dual mode, if you have OTA channels you can use the Guide to change to an OTA channel. Otherwise all you can do is watch a recorded program or go watch TV2.


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## lbeck

> In Dual mode, if you have OTA channels you can use the Guide to change to an OTA channel. Otherwise all you can do is watch a recorded program or go watch TV2


Yeah, I figured it was something like that. And I've used that approach. But TV2 is all the way downstairs and I normally like to RECORD a program so that I don't need to sit through the commercials. Of course, maybe I can pause the program on TV2 to get around the commercial thing.

And actually, I can watch TV2 without leaving the upstairs sofa by using my remote in TV mode and changing channels to the one that I have programmed for TV2. Whew,.... for a minute I was thinking that I might actually need to get off my butt and walk downstairs to see the other program.

This technology is really great. I remember a time back in the old days when I actually had to get up and turn a knob to get to a different channel. Thanks for helping me work through this dilemma.


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## DaddyDuke

GREAT JOB, a lot of work, THANK YOU


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## justrelaxing

I will be giong HD on thurs. I have 2 tv's, so i will be using 1 HD DVR. My current DVR is connected upstairs tv and one in the basement. My question comes with I was reading the 622 that TV1 shows 1080, where TV 2 only shows 480. Can I switch back and forth on which tv is going to be TV1 for 1080? Say I want to watch some sports show on my basement projector that i am also buying.........and want to see it in 1080. Then another time, not at the same time, I am sitting upstairs and want to watch CSI, and i know it shows in HD. Can I then change the upstairs TV to the TV1 to get higher dpi?

Any help would be great.


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## lujan

justrelaxing said:


> I will be giong HD on thurs. I have 2 tv's, so i will be using 1 HD DVR. My current DVR is connected upstairs tv and one in the basement. My question comes with I was reading the 622 that TV1 shows 1080, where TV 2 only shows 480. Can I switch back and forth on which tv is going to be TV1 for 1080? Say I want to watch some sports show on my basement projector that i am also buying.........and want to see it in 1080. Then another time, not at the same time, I am sitting upstairs and want to watch CSI, and i know it shows in HD. Can I then change the upstairs TV to the TV1 to get higher dpi?
> 
> Any help would be great.


No you can't switch TV1 and TV2 but since all outputs are hot at the same time, you could connect one TV via HDMI and the second TV via component so that both are displaying HD. You will need a long run of cable (probably) component to the second TV though. Either that, or you can get a splitter (for HDMI or component) and do it that way. Either way, one of the cable runs will be long. I think component does better with long cable runs than HDMI.


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## justrelaxing

few things....

when you talk component...what are you meaning by this? My enterance of the satelite is in the basement. So you think by using my basement tv as TV1, which is where i am hooking the projector up when I get it, and having some type of router there and then drill a hole in the floor to run cable to my upstairs to hook to tv? My upstairs tv is HD also.

Very new to this....so sorry if i am not following very well


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## Ron Barry

Bottom line.. is TV1 is the only output that does HD. In the back of the 622/722 you have an HDMI output and a Component output (This is what you use to connect your 622/722 to your TV). Both of these sockets provide an HD output and can be used to drive two HD devices though you both will be watching the same content. You cannot output Two different HD outputs. IF that meets your goal you can make this work.


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## justrelaxing

Ok....so at no time I can have 2 outputs showing High Def shows. But If I set it up with HDMI from the 622 to the projector and then the component from the 622 to the upstairs tv, when i am not watching HD downstairs....the upstairs would still be able to watch HD network show?


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## Ron Barry

Both outputs are hot so you can watch the same content upstairs and downstairs at the same time. What you cannot do is watch DiscoverHD in HD upstairs and watch Rave HD downstairs in HD. This would require dual mode and in dual mode one output can support outputting in HD & SD while the other can only output in SD. 

Don't get this confused with Tuners. All tuners can still recorded either HD or SD content. 

I know it can be a bit confusing and hopefully this helps. If not, Take a look at the Sticky FAQ and take a read of some of the threads relating to this topic. it should feel in the gaps. 

Oh.. And welcome to DBSTalk.... WOW.. joined in Dec 2006 and this is your third post.. Must have been lurking for a long time.


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## justrelaxing

Thanks...I will read the sticky....

I understand I can not watch both tv's on HD, but if hooked up, can both watch HD at different times?

I signed up and was going to go HD but got deployed to Iraq. Just got back 2 weeks ago, so that is why the lapse in time....

Thanks for the welcome


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## Ron Barry

Welcome back....  

Yes Both can watch HD at different times. If you are in a situation where you watch one or the other then I would recommend running your VIP DVR in single mode. With the two remotes you can use the IR remote in the room with the VIP DVR and use the RF remote in the other room. 

I currently do this set up with the bedroom TV and a TV in the garage though my Garage TV is SD but the principle is the same.


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## justrelaxing

cool............then its not much of a issue.............this is of course requiring me to get a router and run component to the other tv.............or does this not require anything other then having the dvr hooked up direct to the tv and just being in single mode and with tv1 getting the better pict quality


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## ChuckA

In single mode both of your TVs will be TV1. Connect the TV that is close to the receiver using an HDMI cable. Then you will need to get a long Component and audio cable. You can get a 5 wire Component cable that will carry both the video and audio so a single cable run is all you need. Check out www.monoprice.com for the length of cable you will need. If the run is not very long you could instead connect the close TV with Component and the upstairs TV with HDMI. Since HDMI carrys the audio and video in a single cable.


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## skippytym99

lrk2 said:


> Great review, lots of detail.
> 
> I've ordered one and it should be installed on 3/12. Too long!
> 
> I currently record my OTA HD channels and SD Comcast channels using Windows MCE. I'm planning on hooking TV1 up to my HDTV, but would like to use the TV2 output to record SD channels on my Media Center PC using an IR blaster to control TV2.
> 
> So, is it possible to control TV2 using IR, or only UHF?
> 
> Thanks, Larry


tv 2 can not use ir unforunately it doent work like that tv2 is uhfpro only.


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## skippytym99

James Long said:


> 2-13 are VHF and would be tunable IF they were in ATSC.
> 14-69 UHF OTA also have their counterparts on 'cable' with different numbers.
> There are a lot of cable channels in the gaps between the OTA VHF channels and between OTA VHF and UHF.
> 
> The biggest issue is would any cable channels be in ATSC? That's all the 622 can handle even if it could see the channel numbers.


where did you get that info frome it doesnt sound right.


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## James Long

It was a direct response to Richard's post, and is right.


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