# DTV: Legacy SD Receivers To Be Obsolete



## BrucePadgett (Nov 14, 2007)

Per an email I just received from DirecTV, all pre-2004 SD receivers will become obsolete soon. They're offering me a more current one, no contract required. They want to swap out my old one, which will be a problem, as it is a first-gen Sony which I purchased way back in 1994 for a lot of money.

Before I phone them, I have a technical question for this forum, the members of which will probably be more informed to answer than DTV staff. (No disrespect intended to the CSRs.)

I purchased an H20 outright from a big-box dealer several years ago. While originally intended for use primarily as an MPEG-2 high-def receiver, it can also deliver standard def signals. Would it serve as an adequate replacement for my old Sony under the new DirecTV SD standards? I'd rather not play equipment roulette with DTV.

Thank you for any help, and I apologize to the moderators if this technical post seems misplaced. In a way, it's the end of an era.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

You realized the H20 is leased, right?


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

I wonder what the reasoning is. They used RIDs for part of the time before this didn't they

To the OP, you sure you don't mean an H10? H20 is mpeg4 for HD.


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## kevinwmsn (Aug 19, 2006)

The H20 doesn't do MRV if that matters to you.

I hope them by ending the life of the really old boxes, they could fix the guide data for Channels I Get being that was one of the old excuses.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

BrucePadgett said:


> Per an email I just received from DirecTV, all pre-2004 SD receivers will become obsolete soon. .


I wonder what is DirecTV up to if this is true....


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## longrider (Apr 21, 2007)

spartanstew said:


> You realized the H20 is leased, right?


Actually an H20 could be owned, I know I bought my first H20 before leasing took effect (thanks to this forum) even before I had an HDTV in the bedroom just so I could own it. Of course now I dont care


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## bobnielsen (Jun 29, 2006)

peds48 said:


> I wonder what is DirecTV up to if this is true....


Possibly they won't support non-SWM anymore. Now if they said that non-MPEG4 receivers were going to be obsolete, that would open up some interesting possibilities....

No, that's not it--SWM was more like 2006/7.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

I think the receivers prior to the D11 have challenges with the current guide data, and that is an ongoing and worsening problem. I suspect that is the motivation (as opposed to SWM) for obsoleting older units.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

bobnielsen said:


> Possibly they won't support non-SWM anymore. Now if they said that non-MPEG4 receivers were going to be obsolete, that would open up some interesting possibilities....
> 
> No, that's not it--SWM was more like 2006/7.


Irrelevant if we discuss signals, modulations, sats, APG, etc.

SWiM is in-house delivery short leg.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

spartanstew said:


> You realized the H20 is leased, right?


Absolutely untrue. Had in past three owned H20 and HR20.


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## tigerwillow1 (Jan 26, 2009)

When my Toshiba HD receiver was replaced by an H21 a few years ago, they told me to keep the Toshiba box and the H21 was registered as owned. YMMV, of course.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

P Smith said:


> Absolutely untrue. Had in past three owned H20 and HR20.


Absolutely untrue? Really?

How does equipment you have had have anything to do with it?

Is it possible it's owned? Sure. Is it likely? No.

Either way, it's not "absolutely untrue". But based on your other posts, I'm assuming you don't really know what that means anyway. English is tricky.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

You better use your native language after thinking ...a little at least. Instead of blind acquisitions.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

P Smith said:


> You better use your native language after thinking ...a little at least. Instead of blind acquisitions.


And you may want to look up the word acquisition...

Your *accusation* was pretty blind too.


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## doctrsnoop (Nov 20, 2007)

BrucePadgett said:


> Per an email I just received from DirecTV, all pre-2004 SD receivers will become obsolete soon. They're offering me a more current one, no contract required. They want to swap out my old one, which will be a problem, as it is a first-gen Sony which I purchased way back in 1994 for a lot of money.
> 
> I purchased an H20 outright from a big-box dealer several years ago. While originally intended for use primarily as an MPEG-2 high-def receiver, it can also deliver standard def signals. Would it serve as an adequate replacement for my old Sony under the new DirecTV SD standards? I'd rather not play equipment roulette with DTV.
> .


I don't understand your fears here.

You may have spent a lot of money back then on that receiver, but now it's worth near zero.

The H20 will certainly serve just fine as an SD receiver.

And what sort of equipment did you fear receiving? You would probably get an H21 which is fine. And possibly an H24, even better.


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## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

BrucePadgett said:


> Per an email I just received from DirecTV, all pre-2004 SD receivers will become obsolete soon. They're offering me a more current one, no contract required. They want to swap out my old one, which will be a problem, as it is a first-gen Sony which I purchased way back in 1994 for a lot of money.


You do realize that a lot has changed since 1994....
If you were running a computer, you were either running MS-DOS with Windows 3.1 or System 7
Connecting up to a computer meant using a dial-up modem
A fairly new computer ran a 80486 processor
A hard drive was around 500 MB, with some having 1 GB
"File portability" meant you carried files on a floppy disc instead of a USB or storing it on Dropbox
If you talked about Warcraft, you were talking about the NEW Warcraft game from Blizzard. There was no "World Of"
My computer monitor was a 14" CRT instead of the 24.6" widescreen LCD
Spike TV was known as The Nashville Network
AMC really meant American Movie Classics
"Timeshifting" a program required a VCR instead of a DVR
Considering all of the technological improvements, why are you complaining?


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## SamC (Jan 20, 2003)

BrucePadgett said:


> all pre-2004 SD receivers will become obsolete soon. They're offering me a more current one, no contract required. They want to swap out my old one, which will be a problem, as it is a first-gen Sony which I purchased way back in 1994 for a lot of money.


I will join the piling on here. Like most early adopters, you and I paid a lot of money for receivers that they no longer support. That is life. That is part of being an early adopter of any technology. 1994 model most things no longer work and it really doesn't matter what you paid for them. You have gotten your value.

As to "equipment roulete", I guarentee that what ever you get will be light years superior to a 1st Gen SD. Its all good stuff.


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## fleckrj (Sep 4, 2009)

BrucePadgett said:


> Per an email I just received from DirecTV, all pre-2004 SD receivers will become obsolete soon. They're offering me a more current one, no contract required. They want to swap out my old one, which will be a problem, as it is a first-gen Sony which I purchased way back in 1994 for a lot of money.
> 
> Before I phone them, I have a technical question for this forum, the members of which will probably be more informed to answer than DTV staff. (No disrespect intended to the CSRs.)
> 
> ...





bobnielsen said:


> Possibly they won't support non-SWM anymore. Now if they said that non-MPEG4 receivers were going to be obsolete, that would open up some interesting possibilities....
> 
> No, that's not it--SWM was more like 2006/7.





SamC said:


> I will join the piling on here. Like most early adopters, you and I paid a lot of money for receivers that they no longer support. That is life. That is part of being an early adopter of any technology. 1994 model most things no longer work and it really doesn't matter what you paid for them. You have gotten your value.
> 
> As to "equipment roulete", I guarentee that what ever you get will be light years superior to a 1st Gen SD. Its all good stuff.


On one hand, the RCA receivers I had circa 1999 were the best receivers I ever had. On the other hand, it is time that DirecTV retire all obsolite receivers. After all of the MPEG2 receivers are retired, DirecTV can shut down the MPEG2 transmition and focus on providing only HD. For those who still have an SD TV, the HD receivers will deliver a composit SD signal, but think of the bandwith that can be saved by eliminating all of the SD duplicate channels.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

I bought my first 1GB HD for $290 I'm betting that if I tried to give it away no one would take it.

The older tech just isn't worth supporting anymore because it's stopping progress.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

Shades228 said:


> I bought my first 1GB HD for $290 I'm betting that if I tried to give it away no one would take it.


I can remember a 5MB hard drive costing $2000. Really wanted it but no way I could afford it. That would have been around 1980. A year or two later they offered a 15MB drive for $2495.

So yes, technology certainly does evolve.

But obsoleting pre 2004 receivers is not even close to the start of getting rid of mpeg2. That will be around for years to come.


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## wahooq (Oct 19, 2011)

Its been a program for awhile...DTV is just now reaching ouot before it was a passive replacement program.....trying to get rid of the old stuff


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## Edmund (Apr 17, 2003)

carl6 said:


> But obsoleting pre 1994 receivers is not even close to the start of getting rid of mpeg2. That will be around for years to come.


There is no such thing as pre-1994 Directv receivers, its year they first came out. In the OP's post, its pre-2004 receivers.


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## BrucePadgett (Nov 14, 2007)

Whew! More responses than I imagined. Thanks all for your input.

As for my trepidation, I don't want to use a pre-leased receiver. That's what I meant by equipment roulette. Just a personal preference. All stuff breaks eventually, but used stuff is likely to fail sooner. And as pointed out, some of the best, most durable equipment was the earliest made.

My first-gen Sony has lasted 18 years. To think I would give it up for a leased receiver is hysterical. If nothing else, it will make a nice collector's item someday. BTW I have nothing against progress. But getting used electronics doesn't quite fit my definition of the word. All in all, the heretofore unused H20 I bought brand new is probably the best choice for me, given my preferences.

I will say the guide on my Sony has behaved poorly since the mid-90s. I can only scroll through about two hours worth of programming.

Thanks again for your help. Please continue, even the piling-on is interesting. Now it's time to listen to my vintage LPs... ; )


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

Edmund said:


> There is no such thing as pre-1994 Directv receivers, its year they first came out. In the OP's post, its pre-2004 receivers.


Thanks Edmund - edited to correct. Some typo, eh?


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

BrucePadgett said:


> Whew! More responses than I imagined. Thanks all for your input.
> 
> As for my trepidation, I don't want to use a pre-leased receiver.
> 
> ...


Well, leased receivers are replaced at no cost (if you have protection plan) or for cost of shipping (about $20) if you don't. Cost to replace owned is whatever you have to pay to buy (or lease) another receiver. So with leased, you won't get obsoleted. However, to each their own, and there are some arguments for owning (which is becoming hard to do).

As to vinyl LPs, they do sound good to me (as long as you are careful and don't get them scratched).


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## wahooq (Oct 19, 2011)

carl6 said:


> Well, leased receivers are replaced at no cost (if you have protection plan) or for cost of shipping (about $20) if you don't. Cost to replace owned is whatever you have to pay to buy (or lease) another receiver. So with leased, you won't get obsoleted. However, to each their own, and there are some arguments for owning (which is becoming hard to do).
> 
> As to vinyl LPs, they do sound good to me (as long as you are careful and don't get them scratched).


Not true receivers are replaced whether leased or owned ....if one has the protection plan then owned receivers are replced as owned...otherwise any receiver will be replaced for S/H $19.95


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Both sat companies been discovered by us, customers, have some sort of 'miracle' trigger in their databases what will often assign 'leased' status to your *owned* box. 
If you don't keep paper trail or eBays snapshots, you are SOL !


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## Edmund (Apr 17, 2003)

P Smith said:


> Both sat companies been discovered by us, customers, have some sort of 'miracle' trigger in their databases what will often assign 'leased' status to your *owned* box.
> If you don't keep paper trail or eBays snapshots, you are SOL !


In my case it was the opposite happened, I had three leased receivers suddenly become owned. Had two r16's sd dvrs and sd r22 all changed out the blue to owned. i didn't complain.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Another 'miraculous' event. Sadly, such one happening 1:1000000.


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## Edmund (Apr 17, 2003)

Oh i'm lying, last post I'll see of yours, you on ignore!


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

H20's were only available to purchase thru big box stores for a short time way back in about 2005, so by 2006 or so all receivers purchased from big box stores were leased...so you may want to check if you really *own* that H20. You also should have activated it within 30 days of original purchase IIRC how it used to work. Truthfully what you paid back in 1994 for a receiver is completely irrelevent, electronics have been getting cheaper since virtually the invention of electronics. Truthfully I wish they would have started to obsolete that MPEG2 crap a while ago. Its holding them back from moving forward, let alone they could add many many more channels with the bandwidth savings moving everything over to MPEG4. Embrace the change, be thankful they are offering you a free upgrade.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

> let alone they could add many many more channels


That's unfounded statement - releasing MPEG-1.5 channels/tpns (DTV is not using real MPEG-2) will not give "many many channels" as the 101W is holding maximum number of SD for legacy boxes. Hence the ugly look of over-compressed SD channels there.
In case if you expecting HD, the number will be decreasing. Dramatically. 
119W is not that good for retrofitting either. As Ka sats.


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## BrucePadgett (Nov 14, 2007)

CCarncross, I intentionally bought the H20 days before the changeover to leased-only status. In fact, after the deadline I asked a salesperson if they had yet begun informing DirecTV of every now-supposed "lease". I was given a definitive "no". This was then confirmed by a supervisor.

I suppose at some point appropriate reportage commenced. BTW this all happened at a branch of a very, very big-box dealer.


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## dielray (Aug 5, 2009)

"BrucePadgett" said:


> CCarncross, I intentionally bought the H20 days before the changeover to leased-only status. In fact, after the deadline I asked a salesperson if they had yet begun informing DirecTV of every now-supposed "lease". I was given a definitive "no". This was then confirmed by a supervisor.
> 
> I suppose at some point appropriate reportage commenced. BTW this all happened at a branch of a very, very big-box dealer.


I hope you at least activated it once first. I don't doubt you bought it before leasing started, but if you never activated it, you may have a hard time activating it without a commitment and it being marked as leased.


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

P Smith said:


> Both sat companies been discovered by us, customers, have some sort of 'miracle' trigger in their databases what will often assign 'leased' status to your *owned* box.
> If you don't keep paper trail or eBays snapshots, you are SOL !


sorry to disagree with you, but have had it happen on a replaced owned reciever, 10 minute call to access card department resolved the issue and the newly leased reciever was corrected to owned by them with a few clicks of the keyboard. No documentation required, everything was in their system


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

BTW, pretty much every H20 from back then, were the original H20-600's which I believe were all recalled due to an overheating problem(PSU issue I think), and repaired and marked with a green eco 2.0 sticker on the bottom. I had one as my 1st HD receiver, that I bought a few months before they went lease only in Mar 2006. The caveat when you bought from big box stores back then is you HAD to activate them within 30 days. You didnt say one way or another but based on the rest of your post I'm guessing you never activated it, hence the confusion some of us are getting from your OP. Also was confusing that you said you bought it "a few years ago", but they have been lease only since Mar 2006, more than 6 years ago, which is usually considered more than "a few". Best for you is to call and try and see if you can even activate it, I give you 1 in 3 odds at best.


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## wcalifas254 (Sep 23, 2007)

Well some of the legacy receivers have been obsolete for some time already. Some of them don't get all the ppv's and sports (i.e. sunday ticket, mlb, nba). Probably some of the other legacy receivers will also lose more channels. I still have a few hughes receivers but haven't received that e mail about replacing mine.


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## BrucePadgett (Nov 14, 2007)

I never activated it; I had actually intended to use it solely for its OTA tuner. Back in early 2006 the H20 was noted for the high quality of the OTA tuner's chip. After that plan didn't pan out, I held on to it for eventual use as a replacement for the Sony, if and when necessary.

That's where I'm currently at. I rather ignorantly was not aware of the 30-day activation rule, so my impending call to DirecTV should prove interesting.

Oy vey.


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## Satelliteracer (Dec 6, 2006)

peds48 said:


> I wonder what is DirecTV up to if this is true....


Let's start from scratch here. This email references the old SD receivers only that use an older on screen guide standard. The H20 is not in play here.
These are the old receivers without RIDs, very limited memory, etc. These are the gen 1 and gen 2 receivers, the vast vast vast majority of them actually older than 2000 that require a separate guide, separate resources, separate bandwidth for that guide, etc, etc. Those are being phased out and thus the email. Easy way to tell, if you can't see channels in the 700's then you have one of these receivers. If your local channels are in the 800's or 900's, that's the receiver we are talking about.

To repeat, the H20 is not one of those receivers. The email should have only been sent to customers with only these old, legacy receivers on their account. Not sure why a customer with a H20 that is active would have received the email unless the H20 wasn't actually active on the account. If that is the case, then yes you could have received it.


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## Satelliteracer (Dec 6, 2006)

wcalifas254 said:


> Well some of the legacy receivers have been obsolete for some time already. Some of them don't get all the ppv's and sports (i.e. sunday ticket, mlb, nba). Probably some of the other legacy receivers will also lose more channels. I still have a few hughes receivers but haven't received that e mail about replacing mine.


You will, trust me. Probably in a few weeks. They do this in waves so as not to have too many customers call at once, though with this situation there aren't that many customers that still have these receivers to begin with. Most of them are 1994-2001 receivers and as you correctly point out, technology has changed and advanced like everything else. Many customers that used to have those receivers have upgraded over the years to HD or a dvr that replaced these gen 1 \ 2 receivers.


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## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

All of the receivers that I got in 2003 were replaced a while ago with SWiM receivers.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Satelliteracer said:


> ...These are the old receivers without RIDs, very limited memory, etc. These are the gen 1 and gen 2 receivers, the vast vast vast majority of them actually older than 2000 that require a separate guide, separate resources, separate bandwidth for that guide, etc, etc. Those are being phased out and thus the email. Easy way to tell, if you can't see channels in the 700's then you have one of these receivers. If your local channels are in the 800's or 900's, that's the receiver we are talking about.
> 
> ...


Could we say technically speaking,these receivers what need MPG eg PIDs 0001+ and 05xx. Right ?


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## BrucePadgett (Nov 14, 2007)

Satelliteracer, the question about the H20 concerned whether it would be an appropriate replacement for the early-gen receivers, not whether the H20 itself needed to be swapped out. And except for that pesky overheating problem, it should satisfy stubborn luddites like myself.


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## Satelliteracer (Dec 6, 2006)

P Smith said:


> Could we say technically speaking,these receivers what need MPG eg PIDs 0001+ and 05xx. Right ?


MPG, correct


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## alnielsen (Dec 31, 2006)

I have an old Sony and RCA that are in use. I anxiously await the email message.


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## WestDC (Feb 9, 2008)

I still have a Active D10? But i noticed on my last bill a receiver credit for $4?


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## HarleyD (Aug 31, 2006)

I have three very old STBs in service. An old Hughes E11 (Silver Series) and two RCA DRD-420e boxes.

I also still have two R10 DirecTivos but I doubt if those are impacted by this.

I've actually been considering getting an HR34 and replacing all of the old legacy STBs with simple clients. I've been out of contract for 16 months. Maybe it's time to pull the trigger on that.


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## Satelliteracer (Dec 6, 2006)

WestDC said:


> I still have a Active D10? But i noticed on my last bill a receiver credit for $4?


D10 is unaffected


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## bquerry (Sep 9, 2011)

What about Philip DSR 6000? Right now I have lost most of locals, I can't upgrade the software past the 3.x it is running. I have 3 of these. 1stock, 2 with larger hds. I also have 3 Hughes Directivos with large hds. All SD, running 100 foot from a pole mounted dish via multi switch. I own all of these, not leased. Grandfathered under various "deals" via being a old Primestar customer. I have been on the fence to switching, but really have a lot of content that is still watched all the time by the grandkids. Any advice?


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## linuspbmo (Oct 2, 2009)

I have 6 Hughes SD-HBH receivers still active that were made in 2004. I wonder if they will qualify for replacement or are they just new enough to keep.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

While I do love being a thrifty sort of person (my car is a '95 camero with less than 100k miles), I don't use monochrome monitors on my computers nor CRT monitors for that matter anymore.  

At some point it just makes sense to move on. The newer units might use enough less energy than the cost of the upgrade... (especially if the units are free.) 

Peace,
Tom


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## naijai (Aug 19, 2006)

"linuspbmo" said:


> I have 6 Hughes SD-HBH receivers still active that were made in 2004. I wonder if they will qualify for replacement or are they just new enough to keep.


Those are fine


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## BrucePadgett (Nov 14, 2007)

Hey Tom, I resemble that remark! ; )

BTW I still use Advent speakers in my sound system--30 plus years and still going strong.
However, I'm sending this post on an iPad. Ooooh, cutting edge.

Bruce
Low tech and loving it?


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## Satelliteracer (Dec 6, 2006)

HarleyD said:


> I have three very old STBs in service. An old Hughes E11 (Silver Series) and two RCA DRD-420e boxes.
> 
> I also still have two R10 DirecTivos but I doubt if those are impacted by this.
> 
> I've actually been considering getting an HR34 and replacing all of the old legacy STBs with simple clients. I've been out of contract for 16 months. Maybe it's time to pull the trigger on that.


R10 not impacted

The DRD-420RE (that's the official designation) will be impacted but not until later in the year and next year.

Not sure about the E11.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Well ... since the service was originally released back in late 2000, I'll ask ... 

Are Ultimate TV boxes affected?


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## Satelliteracer (Dec 6, 2006)

HoTat2 said:


> Well ... since the service was originally released back in late 2000, I'll ask ...
> 
> Are Ultimate TV boxes affected?


No issues with those


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## HarleyD (Aug 31, 2006)

Satelliteracer said:


> R10 not impacted
> 
> The DRD-420RE (that's the official designation) will be impacted but not until later in the year and next year.
> 
> Not sure about the E11.


I'm not surprised about the R10s, but the E11 is so old it doesn't even support 4-digit channel numbers :lol:

It was part of my very first system, circa 1998. It actually has some cool features like color coded channels in the guide (e.g. Red=Movie channel) and what was called Turbo Tune (a tic-tac-toe matrix of 9 favorite channels you can tune to quickly) a version of which was eventually added to the HR2X firmware, accessed by pressing up-arrow.

But it is older than dirt. A good 2 -3 years older than the RCAs. From clear back in the Clinton administration.


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## Satelliteracer (Dec 6, 2006)

HarleyD said:


> I'm not surprised about the R10s, but the E11 is so old it doesn't even support 4-digit channel numbers :lol:
> 
> It was part of my very first system, circa 1998. It actually has some cool features like color coded channels in the guide (e.g. Red=Movie channel) and what was called Turbo Tune (a tic-tac-toe matrix of 9 favorite channels you can tune to quickly) a version of which was eventually added to the HR2X firmware, accessed by pressing up-arrow.
> 
> But it is older than dirt. A good 2 -3 years older than the RCAs. From clear back in the Clinton administration.


Is it a HNS HIRD-E11N, then yes it is affected. I'm not familiar with just an E11. Sorry to be nit picky on these, there are so many models over the years that I need the exact model number. I suspect that is the one you are talking about and it will be on the list to be replaced.


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## HarleyD (Aug 31, 2006)

Satelliteracer said:


> Is it a HNS HIRD-E11N, then yes it is affected. I'm not familiar with just an E11. Sorry to be nit picky on these, there are so many models over the years that I need the exact model number. I suspect that is the one you are talking about and it will be on the list to be replaced.


Yes, the manaul says HIRD-E11. I used to refer to it in the long form and so many other referred to it as simply an "E11" I started using the abbreviated model numbre since the first part seemed to be a pretty obvious abbreviation for "Hughes IRD" with E11 being the 'operative' part of the model number.

Thanks. I completely understand your attention to detail if you are providing information to others. You wouldn't want to disseminate something that was inaccurate and have folks relying on it.

That, and some folks can turn on you like jackals around here if you mess up or are a little off.

Jackals, I tells ya'!


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## wcalifas254 (Sep 23, 2007)

Anyone know if this will include legacy receivers with an APG guide that will be made obsolete? or just the pre-APG guide receivers?


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## Draconis (Mar 16, 2007)

wcalifas254 said:


> Anyone know if this will include legacy receivers with an APG guide that will be made obsolete? or just the pre-APG guide receivers?


It's just the MPG (Master Program Guide) receivers. APG receivers are not going to be effected.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

"Draconis" said:


> It's just the MPG (Master Program Guide) receivers. APG receivers are not going to be effected.


Are there any APG receivers without RIDs?


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## Draconis (Mar 16, 2007)

dpeters11 said:


> Are there any APG receivers without RIDs?


I know there are a few of the old TiVo's that do not have a RID.

As for the regular IRD's, I do not remember any APG's without a RID, but I reserve the right to be wrong on that one.


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## wcalifas254 (Sep 23, 2007)

I think the Hughes Gaeboa might be APG receivers without RID's


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

wcalifas254 said:


> Anyone know if this will include legacy receivers with an APG guide that will be made obsolete? or just the pre-APG guide receivers?


Look above http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=3046398&postcount=44


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## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

How much bandwidth will that save having to get rid of that old master program guide data?

Do you think some day they could phase out MPEG2 set tops? I would love to see better picture quality on channels I like to watch frequently like DIY Network, H2, BBC America, Fuse and the wife's Oxygen, Style, We.

The MPEG2 or MPEG 1.5 (if you want to call it that) quality is atrocious. It would be great if we could move all of 101 to MPEG4. Could have better quality in less footprint. More standby transponders for disaster recovery. More transponders for HD and other advanced services. The system would be in much better shape and it would follow a single standard (MPEG4) and would be simpler to support just one style of inventory and SWIM setups.

I know that would take a lot of work, but if you start now maybe you would have it done in the next 5 years?


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

I see that tp24 on 119W as first attempt to convert Ku tpn to MPEG-4 using DVB-S2D 8PSK. It carry 5 HD channels now (really only two, but a replication of one to four PIDs do stress for whole bandwidth).


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

cypherx said:


> How much bandwidth will that save having to get rid of that old master program guide data?
> 
> Do you think some day they could phase out MPEG2 set tops? I would love to see better picture quality on channels I like to watch frequently like DIY Network, H2, BBC America, Fuse and the wife's Oxygen, Style, We.
> 
> ...


I'm betting that bandwidth isn't a primary driver for this, from the satellite perspective, but more of a resource and time investment that is no longer cost effective. The receivers are not being replaced with MPEG 4 receivers so this is not the start of an MPEG 4 transition.


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## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

"Shades228" said:


> I'm betting that bandwidth isn't a primary driver for this, from the satellite perspective, but more of a resource and time investment that is no longer cost effective. The receivers are not being replaced with MPEG 4 receivers so this is not the start of an MPEG 4 transition.


That's odd. If your going to replace them then why not put mpeg4 boxes out there since they have been in production for so long... Spend time and effort once rather than twice.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

They know how many SD boxes out there and do count money - we are speculating; so the your question/pitch is not well funded.


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## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

"P Smith" said:


> They know how many SD boxes out there and do count money - we are speculating; so the your question/pitch is not well funded.


I know your right It seems asinine from the outside looking in. Not something I would do, but then I don't run a DBS provider either.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

They developing/have/correcting own plans. We would be lucky to just make right guess. Nothing else.


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## BrucePadgett (Nov 14, 2007)

Got a call this week from DirecTV informing us that the legacy receivers will be phased out by Dec. 31 of this year. I personally didn't take the call, but now I at least know the definitive drop-dead date for my Sony.


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

Draconis said:


> As for the regular IRD's, I do not remember any APG's without a RID, but I reserve the right to be wrong on that one.


My hughes e86 manual:


> The most powerful feature of the HD receiver is the DIRECTV Advanced Program Guide™


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## wcalifas254 (Sep 23, 2007)

so are people being offered an owned for an owned receiver? Or what's the deal with this?


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## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

I would THINK any swap outs would be for MPEG-4 receivers at this point. Not to start the MPEG-4 transition, but what would the price difference really be to swap all of these old receivers (That they're going to swap anyway right now) to MPEG-4, as compared to sending out MPEG-2 receivers now, and then MPEG-4 receivers again down the road. Just the fact that these people still have these shows they're probably not going to upgrade to MPEG-4 on their own.


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## wahooq (Oct 19, 2011)

wcalifas254 said:


> so are people being offered an owned for an owned receiver? Or what's the deal with this?


No it will be leased...but no difference in how it is handled other than you must return it if you leave or disconnect it


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## HarleyD (Aug 31, 2006)

kevinturcotte said:


> I would THINK any swap outs would be for MPEG-4 receivers at this point. Not to start the MPEG-4 transition, but what would the price difference really be to swap all of these old receivers (That they're going to swap anyway right now) to MPEG-4, as compared to sending out MPEG-2 receivers now, and then MPEG-4 receivers again down the road. Just the fact that these people still have these shows they're probably not going to upgrade to MPEG-4 on their own.


I'm pretty sure that with the exception of a few LIL markets that SD is still delivered exclusively in MPEG2 on the 101.


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## wcalifas254 (Sep 23, 2007)

So with these receivers being obsolete after december 31st. Will they not be able to get channels or just not get anything on their guides?


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## LynnW (Jul 9, 2012)

I have two Sony receivers which will need to be replaced. Is there any chance that DirecTV might replace the two with a single HD receiver? I no longer need two receivers. Should I call the receiver replacement number, or would it be better to call customer retention. I've read on this forum that some people hae gotten deals from the card access department.

I am also considering going to U-verse. My neighbor's tree has grown to block the line of sight and I am getting little to no signal strength. It might be easier and cheaper to go with U-verse than to get the dish moved to the roof. I would prefer to stay with DirecTV.

I have been with DirecTV since 1996. I have the original Total Choice package and have the Sports package. I have called customer service exactly three times in 16 years. Once to start Game Plan and again to drop it when I started working weekends. The other time was to drop Starz/Encore which I never watched. I have never asked or received any discounts. I have been on auto pay since its inception.


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## HarleyD (Aug 31, 2006)

LynnW said:


> I have two Sony receivers which will need to be replaced. Is there any chance that DirecTV might replace the two with a single HD receiver? I no longer need two receivers. Should I call the receiver replacement number, or would it be better to call customer retention. I've read on this forum that some people hae gotten deals from the card access department.
> 
> I am also considering going to U-verse. My neighbor's tree has grown to block the line of sight and I am getting little to no signal strength. It might be easier and cheaper to go with U-verse than to get the dish moved to the roof. I would prefer to stay with DirecTV.
> 
> I have been with DirecTV since 1996. I have the original Total Choice package and have the Sports package. I have called customer service exactly three times in 16 years. Once to start Game Plan and again to drop it when I started working weekends. The other time was to drop Starz/Encore which I never watched. I have never asked or received any discounts. I have been on auto pay since its inception.


Welcome to dbstalk, Lynn. I think you'll find it an interesting discussion and valuable resource on all things DirecTV.

I had wondered also about whether or not DirecTV might offer some sort of tradeoff or partial credit if we choose to upgrade the obsolete SD receivers to some sort of HD equipment.

I have three SD receivers due to be obsolete by the end of the year. Since I am moving toward a Whole Home DVR installation a few pieces at a time I would be interested in replacing these obsolete units with HD client boxes that would work with WHDVR. I'm waiting until they tell me the life of these boxes is over before I broach the issue with DirecTV.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

The old/legacy DTV receivers has some value - after reprogramming they could be used in Latin America, where DTV has growing business.


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## alnielsen (Dec 31, 2006)

P Smith said:


> The old/legacy DTV receivers has some value - after reprogramming they could be used in Latin America, where DTV has growing business.


The difference being these receivers are almost exclusively owned by the client. It's not D*'s property to redistribute.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

They could follow dish - give $10 credit to your subscription for each returned IRD. Still ripoff ...


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## ThomasM (Jul 20, 2007)

peds48 said:


> I wonder what is DirecTV up to if this is true....


They are dropping the old style program guide. In 2004 they introduced the "advanced program guide". The old guide only kept 2 hours of programming in the receiver. If you wanted more, you had to wait a few seconds while "retrieving program guide" appeared onscreen. In total, you could get up to 38 hours of programming (six 6-hour blocks plus the two hours the receiver always had in it's memory)

The "advanced program guide" sends out about four hours of programming via a high-speed data stream and up to the next 14 days via a slow speed data stream. Different receivers store different amounts of this data in memory from simple SD boxes (3 days) to some older RCA units (5 days) to the DVR'S which store the data on a hard drive (the full 14 days).

The abbreviated data is always viewable since that is what the receiver is getting while you see "receiving satellite data" onscreen after a receiver restart. DVR's keep the full 14 days of data stored in a "cache" file on the hard drive so you get all of the data when you restart these receivers.

To clear this cache (if it seems to be corrupted or for your own curiosity), restart your DVR TWICE within 30 minutes and you will see the 4 hours of high speed data when the receiver restarts and must wait up to 48 hours for all the data to be received.


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## ThomasM (Jul 20, 2007)

Satelliteracer said:


> You will, trust me. Probably in a few weeks. They do this in waves so as not to have too many customers call at once, though with this situation there aren't that many customers that still have these receivers to begin with. Most of them are 1994-2001 receivers and as you correctly point out, technology has changed and advanced like everything else. Many customers that used to have those receivers have upgraded over the years to HD or a dvr that replaced these gen 1 \ 2 receivers.


I'm eagerly awaiting the email. I still have my ORIGINAL Hughes box on my account which I first activated in 2000. It is used strictly for listening to DMX (Sonic Tap) since it continuously displays the song data (no irritating "screen saver")


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## ThomasM (Jul 20, 2007)

dpeters11 said:


> Are there any APG receivers without RIDs?


You bet. I have an RCA which was one of the FIRST receivers with the APG. It stores 5 days of programming data but doesn't have an RID. It is model DRD450RGA.

But if DirecTV is offering a FREE upgrade with NO contract extension... 

I wonder if this fantastic upgrade will be OWNED or LEASED???


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

ThomasM said:


> You bet. I have an RCA which was one of the FIRST receivers with the APG. It stores 5 days of programming data but doesn't have an RID. It is model DRD450RGA.
> 
> But if DirecTV is offering a FREE upgrade with NO contract extension...
> 
> I wonder if this fantastic upgrade will be OWNED or LEASED???


Leased


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## mrdbdigital (Oct 3, 2004)

I have a couple of Philips DSR6000's which I know do not have RID numbers. Will they be impacted by this?

Dave


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## Dude111 (Aug 6, 2010)

Mark Holtz said:


> Considering all of the technological improvements, why are you complaining?


Well for me,I DONT WANT ONE OF THIER NEW PIECE OF GARBAGE BOXS THATS WHY!!!!!

I have a 2nd gen plain SD reciever i got many years ago,NO HD,NO DVR,none of that garbage.... AND I DONT WANT IT!!!

In my opinion i have the BEST box i could ever have as far as response,etc.......

I will keep it as long as I can!!! (Less cancel service after 12 years)


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

Dude111 said:


> Well for me,I DONT WANT ONE OF THIER NEW PIECE OF GARBAGE BOXS THATS WHY!!!!!
> )


You have been ranting for hours...Valium is cheap, and readily available from your nearby physician. Maybe it would make you feel less...stressed?


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## Jacob Braun (Oct 6, 2011)

"Dude111" said:


> Well for me,I DONT WANT ONE OF THIER NEW PIECE OF GARBAGE BOXS THATS WHY!!!!!
> 
> I have a 2nd gen plain SD reciever i got many years ago,NO HD,NO DVR,none of that garbage.... AND I DONT WANT IT!!!
> 
> ...


Well you can keep it forever! You won't be able to watch anything on it in a few months, but it's yours!
A free D12 awaits you if you ever decide to call.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

mrdbdigital said:


> I have a couple of Philips DSR6000's which I know do not have RID numbers. Will they be impacted by this?
> 
> Dave


I'll double check for you but it's a TiVo so it should be fine due to TiVo's guide data.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Dude111 said:


> Well for me,I DONT WANT ONE OF THIER NEW PIECE OF GARBAGE BOXS THATS WHY!!!!!
> 
> I have a 2nd gen plain SD reciever i got many years ago,NO HD,NO DVR,none of that garbage.... AND I DONT WANT IT!!!
> 
> ...


And if you take the D12 you still won't have those. I don't think DirecTV even writes the software for them (handled by NDS.)


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Shades228 said:


> I'll double check for you *but it's a TiVo so it should be fine due to TiVo's guide data.*


TIVO's guide data is carried in the satellite stream?


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## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

HoTat2 said:


> TIVO's guide data is carried in the satellite stream?


Always has been for the DirecTivos.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

kevinturcotte said:


> Always has been for the DirecTivos.


I always thought the DTIVOs had to be designed to function with DIRECTV's MPT or APG like all other receivers. Not have a separate guide stream from TIVO's servers like the one which services their STB and CATV DVRs over the phone or internet also sent over the satellite.


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