# A cord cutting experiment



## lparsons21

On the 1st of September I decided to give cord cutting a try. I used that date as that was when my data cap counter reset for the month.
I currently have Mediacom cable with owned Tivos. The bill for the TV portion with no premiums would be about $45 as I’m on a bundle deal for at least another year. The goal of the test was to determine if cord cutting was good enough for me and see if it would save me money.

I subscribed to Sling Blue for $20 including their DVR service. That would rise to $30 after the first month. Sling worked fine and their UI wasn’t bad for live watching and not completely horrible for scheduling recordings. But ad skipping for the most part is just not there and I’ve gotten spoiled with TiVo’s auto ad-skipping. Blue had my ‘must have’ channels, but I figured out that if I stayed with cord cutting I would change to Orange+Blue w/DVR @$45/month. So the cable/OTT financials was a wash.

While cord cutting would work for me, it wouldn’t be as convenient and easy as using TiVo’s with cable by a big margin. Auto ad-skipping, better channel guide, much better DVR and being able to use one UI all added up to a better experience IMO.

I did notice that my internet data use was much higher. I knew it would be higher but didn’t think it would rise so quick. 12 days in I’ve used about 700Gb of a 2TB cap which means I would probably exceed the data cap at extra cost, or need to step up to the next level at a higher cost.

When my cable bill goes up in a year I’ll revisit, but for now, I’ll stick with cable/tivo.


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## B. Shoe

lparsons21 said:


> On the 1st of September I decided to give cord cutting a try. I used that date as that was when my data cap counter reset for the month.
> I currently have Mediacom cable with owned Tivos. The bill for the TV portion with no premiums would be about $45 as I'm on a bundle deal for at least another year. The goal of the test was to determine if cord cutting was good enough for me and see if it would save me money.
> 
> I subscribed to Sling Blue for $20 including their DVR service. That would rise to $30 after the first month. Sling worked fine and their UI wasn't bad for live watching and not completely horrible for scheduling recordings. But ad skipping for the most part is just not there and I've gotten spoiled with TiVo's auto ad-skipping. Blue had my 'must have' channels, but I figured out that if I stayed with cord cutting I would change to Orange+Blue w/DVR @$45/month. So the cable/OTT financials was a wash.
> 
> While cord cutting would work for me, it wouldn't be as convenient and easy as using TiVo's with cable by a big margin. Auto ad-skipping, better channel guide, much better DVR and being able to use one UI all added up to a better experience IMO.
> 
> I did notice that my internet data use was much higher. I knew it would be higher but didn't think it would rise so quick. 12 days in I've used about 700Gb of a 2TB cap which means I would probably exceed the data cap at extra cost, or need to step up to the next level at a higher cost.
> 
> When my cable bill goes up in a year I'll revisit, but for now, I'll stick with cable/tivo.


I think this is a pretty fair argument for staying with cable. The data cap issue would be a constant worry on my end, especially during football and basketball seasons.


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## lparsons21

B. Shoe said:


> I think this is a pretty fair argument for staying with cable. The data cap issue would be a constant worry on my end, especially during football and basketball seasons.


Yeah, data caps are an issue. At my current home my choices are Mediacom, Wisper (WiFi), and Frontier DSL. Frontier is a non-starter as the best they can do here is 3Mb. Mediacom offers speeds up to 1Gb with data caps that are tied to the speed you subscribe to.

Wisper offers up to 25Mb with no data caps for $100/month. Wisper would be doable in my home if the service was a little better. Talking to my neighbor that has them, it is a bit flakey. Usually works OK, but not so good for streaming as the speeds vary quite a bit over time. If their quality of service was better I would consider them if I cut the cord.

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## Rich

lparsons21 said:


> Yeah, data caps are an issue. At my current home my choices are Mediacom, Wisper (WiFi), and Frontier DSL. Frontier is a non-starter as the best they can do here is 3Mb. Mediacom offers speeds up to 1Gb with data caps that are tied to the speed you subscribe to.
> 
> Wisper offers up to 25Mb with no data caps for $100/month. Wisper would be doable in my home if the service was a little better. Talking to my neighbor that has them, it is a bit flakey. Usually works OK, but not so good for streaming as the speeds vary quite a bit over time. If their quality of service was better I would consider them if I cut the cord.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


We have Optimum by Altice. No data caps that I know of. Yes, a 25 Mbps feed will not maintain 25 at times. My 300 Mbps feed rarely shows the full 300 down. On weekends it dips quite a bit at times.

Rich


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## lparsons21

Rich said:


> We have Optimum by Altice. No data caps that I know of. Yes, a 25 Mbps feed will not maintain 25 at times. My 300 Mbps feed rarely shows the full 300 down. On weekends it dips quite a bit at times.
> 
> Rich


Mediacom has been rock solid and seldom slows down below the 200Mb I subscribe to. The data caps are troublesome though. I don't need 200 at all, but if I drop to 100 the data cap drops too.

One thing I didn't mention is that in fiddling with various streamers I found some of the ad supported to be pretty darned good. Amazon's imdb has a great picture and good audio with fewer ads than Hulu's paid for ad subscription. Heck, it is even better audio and video than Hulu IMO. Pluto is good as are other ad supported ones.

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## Rich

lparsons21 said:


> Mediacom has been rock solid and seldom slows down below the 200Mb I subscribe to. The data caps are troublesome though. I don't need 200 at all, but if I drop to 100 the data cap drops too.
> 
> One thing I didn't mention is that in fiddling with various streamers I found some of the ad supported to be pretty darned good. Amazon's imdb has a great picture and good audio with fewer ads than Hulu's paid for ad subscription. Heck, it is even better audio and video than Hulu IMO. Pluto is good as are other ad supported ones.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


Don't see any reason to use any service that has commercials that you can't skip thru. But, I'm gonna take a look at IMDb. Perhaps there is a reason and I try not to be a blockhead...let me see what it looks like...yup, good picture, lots of content and commercials I can't skip thru. They don't have a way to pay to get rid of the commercials?

Rich


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## Rich

lparsons21 said:


> Mediacom has been rock solid and seldom slows down below the 200Mb I subscribe to. The data caps are troublesome though. I don't need 200 at all, but if I drop to 100 the data cap drops too.
> 
> One thing I didn't mention is that in fiddling with various streamers I found some of the ad supported to be pretty darned good. Amazon's imdb has a great picture and good audio with fewer ads than Hulu's paid for ad subscription. Heck, it is even better audio and video than Hulu IMO. Pluto is good as are other ad supported ones.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


You have to consider where you live and where I live. I think there's a lot more people online at any time in my area. I've always seen some dip in speed (not that it matters, really) during prime time for gamers and streamers.

Rich


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## lparsons21

Rich said:


> Don't see any reason to use any service that has commercials that you can't skip thru. But, I'm gonna take a look at IMDb. Perhaps there is a reason and I try not to be a blockhead...let me see what it looks like...yup, good picture, lots of content and commercials I can't skip thru. They don't have a way to pay to get rid of the commercials?
> 
> Rich


No, it is strictly an ad supported streamer offered as a freebie from Amazon. And yes there are those ads, but they are fewer and further apart than some.

The crappy part of streaming is that in all too many instances there isn't any ad skipping except for SOME dvr'd stuff. I found that very irritating! Especially on paid streamers.

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## lparsons21

Rich said:


> You have to consider where you live and where I live. I think there's a lot more people online at any time in my area. I've always seen some dip in speed (not that it matters, really) during prime time for gamers and streamers.
> 
> Rich


Yep. I have 200/20 internet speed which is serious overkill for my needs. Even if it dipped it wouldn't matter. If not for data cap levels tied to speed levels I would be good to go with less than 1/2 that!

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## crkeehn

When ATT extended U-Verse into my neighborhood, I was able to add their gigapower service to my account for a sweetheart deal. It includes unlimited data. I found that with a son into gaming and streaming and a dad who is streaming only now, the extra bandwidth is appreciated. Currently, I subscribe to Youtube TV, which gets me the sports and local channels and Philo for my Hallmark Movies.  There is some overlap between the two services but enough independent programming that justifies both in my opinion. it doesn't hurt that I signed up for Philo when the base service was $14 so I am currently continuing to pay that amount.

Philo and YTTV is still considerably cheaper than I was paying for SD service with DirecTV and also provides me with HD service. It is also portable so I am able to take my programming with me when I travel. For me, cord cutting makes sense and is still affordable. Your mileage may vary.


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## B. Shoe

A few additional thoughts, as I'm now reaching a month of all-streaming service, and enjoying the discussions that take place in this section of the forum. Right now, cord cutting is the ultimate YMMV situation. The product isn't a success or failure if you're are/aren't satisfied with it, it's simply is or is not the right fit for you:

*Are you willing to lose "must haves"?* I made a few concessions switching to YTTV. And unless you're willing to subscribe to more than one service, you're likely losing something. I lost NFL Network, and other Viacom channels. (Albeit, I rarely watch MTV and Nickelodeon.) Anything else I lost switching to streaming wasn't considered a personal loss of content (See the constant discussions regarding the Hallmark suite in other posts/threads.) Would I like to have NFL Network? Yes. But I'll find a way around to access the few Thursday night and Saturday night games that are NFLN exclusive. I lost ESPN3 content just recently on YTTV. Do I miss having it? A little, but I'm surviving and doing fine. What can you live with/without, and what it is worth to you, to have that content. For my own mileage, I haven't really missed what I lost that much.
*Are you open to learning a new system/means of viewing? *Watching via streaming requires a little bit of non-conventional viewing habits from the past 15-20 years. You don't need a wholly elaborate DVR system, because accessing apps will have the on-demand content you need. But that requires swapping into a different app. Some people are okay with this shift, some aren't, or aren't willing to take the time to learn it. Again, not better or worse, just different tastes.
*Does the cost justify the shift?* As mentioned here, the package may be less, data caps could be a killer, depending on how many streams you're accessing at once and how often you're watching TV via streaming. Or are you simply a little better off and can financially pay for a higher priced product with no worries? Maybe it's not worth the hassle of setting everything up, relearning systems, etc.
*Are you still getting locals? *Blame it on my former day job, but man is it important to be able to have access to local channels. Whether that's via antenna, maybe the stations stream local newscasts...you've gotta have a means to get that local information. For my market, YTTV was the only streamer that provided all four broadcast networks. That was one of the last hurdles for me to make the jump.


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## lparsons21

For me locals were fairly easy. I can get them all except for CBS. But I sub to CBS All Access to that isn’t an issue. Local news I get either from ABC which is located in the next town over, or online.

The TV in my home is on if I’m awake, often just as noise in the house. This is probably the biggest reason I see bumping over the data cap limit on my current subscription. I could change what I do but don’t want to, or at least not yet.

The biggest single irritant to all streaming is the blasted ads and lack of being able to skip them. Since cable TV is so close to the cost of streaming right now, it isn’t worth the hassle of changing IMO.


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## Rich

lparsons21 said:


> No, it is strictly an ad supported streamer offered as a freebie from Amazon. And yes there are those ads, but they are fewer and further apart than some.
> 
> The crappy part of streaming is that in all too many instances there isn't any ad skipping except for SOME dvr'd stuff. I found that very irritating! Especially on paid streamers.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


I think if we made the differences between cable replacement services and streaming video services a bit clearer it would make this easier to understand. I don't remember seeing any video streaming service that had/has commercials, but we happily pay for the upgraded services such as Hulu without commercials. I would consider IMDb a streaming video service and with no way to opt out of commercials I wouldn't bother with it. I did find it interesting but...

Rich


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## Rich

lparsons21 said:


> Yep. I have 200/20 internet speed which is serious overkill for my needs. Even if it dipped it wouldn't matter. If not for data cap levels tied to speed levels I would be good to go with less than 1/2 that!
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


I understand that. I do run a speed test from time to time and I can see the dip from 300 down to a bit less than that at prime time for gamers and streamers but that has absolutely no adverse effect on us.

Rich


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## Rich

crkeehn said:


> When ATT extended U-Verse into my neighborhood, I was able to add their gigapower service to my account for a sweetheart deal. It includes unlimited data. I found that with a son into gaming and streaming and a dad who is streaming only now, the extra bandwidth is appreciated. Currently, I subscribe to Youtube TV, which gets me the sports and local channels and Philo for my Hallmark Movies.  There is some overlap between the two services but enough independent programming that justifies both in my opinion. it doesn't hurt that I signed up for Philo when the base service was $14 so I am currently continuing to pay that amount.
> 
> Philo and YTTV is still considerably cheaper than I was paying for SD service with DirecTV and also provides me with HD service. It is also portable so I am able to take my programming with me when I travel. For me, cord cutting makes sense and is still affordable. *Your mileage may vary.*


Everybody's mileage varies when it comes to streaming. So many ways to do it.

Rich


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## Rich

B. Shoe said:


> *Are you still getting locals? *Blame it on my former day job, but man is it important to be able to have access to local channels. Whether that's via antenna, maybe the stations stream local newscasts...you've gotta have a means to get that local information. For my market, YTTV was the only streamer that provided all four broadcast networks. That was one of the last hurdles for me to make the jump.


I haven't watched a local channel for anything but sports in years. I don't think I'm missing anything. I get your point tho. I had a job where I had to watch the weather in the winter closely. I had The Weather Channel in my office. I depended on it. Now I get better forecasts on my phone. Same thing with news.

Rich


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## lparsons21

Rich said:


> I think if we made the differences between cable replacement services and streaming video services a bit clearer it would make this easier to understand. I don't remember seeing any video streaming service that had/has commercials, but we happily pay for the upgraded services such as Hulu without commercials. I would consider IMDb a streaming video service and with no way to opt out of commercials I wouldn't bother with it. I did find it interesting but...
> 
> Rich


Yeah the cable replacement services generally are going to have ads and unfortunately, rather poor ad skipping if any at all.

In the other streamers it has always been a mixed bag. Netflix and Amazon Prime don't have ads, virtually all the rest do. The only 2 services with ads on their lowest tier with no or restricted ads on higher tiers is Hulu and CBS All Access. There may be others but I don't know of any.

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## Rich

lparsons21 said:


> Yeah the cable replacement services generally are going to have ads and unfortunately, rather poor ad skipping if any at all.
> 
> In the other streamers it has always been a mixed bag. Netflix and Amazon Prime don't have ads, virtually all the rest do. The only 2 services with ads on their lowest tier with no or restricted ads on higher tiers is Hulu and CBS All Access. There may be others but I don't know of any.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


Both Hulu and CBS AA are top tier video streamers here. I'll do anything to avoid commercials.

Rich


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## espaeth

Rich said:


> Both Hulu and CBS AA are top tier video streamers here. I'll do anything to avoid commercials.


One other benefit I don't see discussed much: in addition to avoiding commercials on Hulu or CBS AA, you also get to skip overlay graphics on your local channels for things like weather alerts or school closings. (useful info if you're watching live, not so much when you're watching days after the fact)


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## mjwagner

lparsons21 said:


> Yeah the cable replacement services generally are going to have ads and unfortunately, rather poor ad skipping if any at all....
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


Huh? I've been using PSVue for the last 2+ years, don't watch commercials and never had an issue FFing thru the commercials on any programs we watch...maybe I'm just special...


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## lparsons21

mjwagner said:


> Huh? I've been using PSVue for the last 2+ years, don't watch commercials and never had an issue FFing thru the commercials on any programs we watch...maybe I'm just special...


Not special, just on the service that allows it. That's not always the case as has been commented on in quite a few threads. Sling is hit or miss, some channels/shows allow for trick play, others not. Live watching, at least on the channels I checked doesn't even allow for pausing.

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## mjwagner

lparsons21 said:


> Not special, just on the service that allows it. That's not always the case as has been commented on in quite a few threads. Sling is hit or miss, some channels/shows allow for trick play, others not. Live watching, at least on the channels I checked doesn't even allow for pausing.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


Yeah, that's one of the main reasons we went with PSVue. Any service that doesn't allow me to FF thru commercials would be a non-starter for us. It also allows pausing of live tv although you are limited to how long you can pause.


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## lparsons21

mjwagner said:


> Yeah, that's one of the main reasons we went with PSVue. Any service that doesn't allow me to FF thru commercials would be a non-starter for us. It also allows pausing of live tv although you are limited to how long you can pause.


I tried PSVue back when they first came out and thought at the time that if I cut the cord, it would be the service I would get. Before I started this experiment I evaluated which cable type channels were must have. Sling had all of them and was the cheapest. PSVue had most as I remember but cost was higher than cable.

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## APB101

lparsons21 said:


> On the 1st of September I decided to give cord cutting a try.
> 
> &#8230;
> 
> I did notice that my internet data use was much higher. I knew it would be higher but didn't think it would rise so quick. 12 days in I've used about 700Gb of a 2TB cap which means I would probably exceed the data cap at extra cost, or need to step up to the next level at a higher cost.


I would like to know how you reached 700GB of data usage in 12 days.

Can you explain?


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## compnurd

APB101 said:


> I would like to know how you reached 700GB of data usage in 12 days.
> 
> Can you explain?


Not difficult streaming TV at the highest bit rate


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## lparsons21

APB101 said:


> I would like to know how you reached 700GB of data usage in 12 days.
> 
> Can you explain?


A few 4K videos and most of the rest at least 720p, doesn't help that the TV is on something pretty much from 10AM-10PM


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## mjwagner

compnurd said:


> Not difficult streaming TV at the highest bit rate


Live TV is almost all 720p so not very high bit rate. That said, if you have 1 or more TV's on all the time for background noise like some people do I'm guessing that would do it. My wife and I only have any of our TV's on when we are actually watching something, normally evenings. That plus typically a couple of 4k movies per month and we rarely get above 500GB per month. Our ISP doesn't have data caps but I do check the stats on my router every so often. In the 2 + years we have been all streaming we have never even come close to 1TB in any month. I think 700GB is as close as we have ever come and that was during football season. This is one of those things that is very much based on how you watch TV, or if you have other things that use lots of data (gamers, work from home, etc.).


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## lparsons21

We are all creatures of habit to some extent. I live alone and have always had the TV on even if not actively watching for noise in the house. I could just stream music and reduce the useage and might at some point in time.
Or I could have it on an OTA channel since they have plenty of daytime shows that are easy to ignore too! 


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## Rich

lparsons21 said:


> We are all creatures of habit to some extent. I live alone and have always had the TV on even if not actively watching for noise in the house. I could just stream music and reduce the useage and might at some point in time.
> Or I could have it on an OTA channel since they have plenty of daytime shows that are easy to ignore too!
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


How's the puppy doing?

Rich


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## lparsons21

Rich said:


> How's the puppy doing?
> 
> Rich


Just fine. She's such an attention hog though. Unless I'm actually doing something she figures I'm supposed to play with her!

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## James Long

Get her Dog TV.


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## mjwagner

James Long said:


> Get her Dog TV.


Please tell me that's not really a thing...


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## MysteryMan

mjwagner said:


> Please tell me that's not really a thing...


Sure is, DIRECTV channel 562.


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## compnurd

mjwagner said:


> Live TV is almost all 720p so not very high bit rate. That said, if you have 1 or more TV's on all the time for background noise like some people do I'm guessing that would do it. My wife and I only have any of our TV's on when we are actually watching something, normally evenings. That plus typically a couple of 4k movies per month and we rarely get above 500GB per month. Our ISP doesn't have data caps but I do check the stats on my router every so often. In the 2 + years we have been all streaming we have never even come close to 1TB in any month. I think 700GB is as close as we have ever come and that was during football season. This is one of those things that is very much based on how you watch TV, or if you have other things that use lots of data (gamers, work from home, etc.).


Just because it may be 720p doesn't mean the bit rate can't be high. Plus ATT TV and I believe YTTV use 1080p streams at higher bit rates


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## James Long

MysteryMan said:


> Sure is, DIRECTV channel 562.


Sample videos ... DOGTV

The video is designed for dogs range of vision!


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## Rich

lparsons21 said:


> Just fine. She's such an attention hog though. Unless I'm actually doing something she figures I'm supposed to play with her!
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


Glad to see she's working out well. I just got a puppy a month ago. I'd provide a picture but he's totally black and not photogenic, all we see when we take a picture is black blob. Gotta get him groomed and I'll try to get a decent picture.

Rich


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## Rich

MysteryMan said:


> Sure is, DIRECTV channel 562.


Yet another channel I don't get. Not about to upgrade...but the wife keeps harping at me about the "other" Hallmark channels that we don't get on our plan. If I upgrade for that I'd get the dog channel. Not sure how the puppy feels about watching TV...maybe we should stop this, let me start a thread about dogs...done. Here's a link: Dogs

Rich


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## mjwagner

compnurd said:


> Just because it may be 720p doesn't mean the bit rate can't be high. Plus ATT TV and I believe YTTV use 1080p streams at higher bit rates


As opposed to 4K streams is what I meant. I should have been more specific.


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## mjwagner

MysteryMan said:


> Sure is, DIRECTV channel 562.


LOL...too funny.


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## MysteryMan

Recently there was a free preview of DOGTV. During the free view we played it for our dog. It held his interest for only a few minutes. He and our cats prefer watching wildlife (especially marine life) on Nat Geo Wild and Smithsonian Channel.


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## Getteau

We had 3 dogs that paid no attention to the TV. I would turn on dog TV when it was on free previews and they would never even look at it. Then we fostered a dog that would actually watch TV. It was amusing at first, but got old real quick when she would start barking at every dog on the TV. You don’t realize how many dogs or dog sounds are on TV until you are grabbing the remote every 10 minutes to hit mute.


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## B. Shoe

compnurd said:


> Just because it may be 720p doesn't mean the bit rate can't be high. Plus ATT TV and I believe YTTV use 1080p streams at higher bit rates


Help me understand this, for YTTV; aren't ESPN, FOX and others broadcasting at 720p, still? I see where YTTV stats tell me it's at 1080p, but is it just up-scaling the native broadcast?


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## compnurd

B. Shoe said:


> Help me understand this, for YTTV; aren't ESPN, FOX and others broadcasting at 720p, still? I see where YTTV stats tell me it's at 1080p, but is it just up-scaling the native broadcast?


Correct


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## Rich

B. Shoe said:


> Help me understand this, for YTTV; aren't ESPN, FOX and others broadcasting at 720p, still? I see where YTTV stats tell me it's at 1080p, but is it just up-scaling the native broadcast?


What are you using for YTTV? An ATV or a Fire TV device or a Roku?

Rich


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## ejbvt

Rich said:


> I haven't watched a local channel for anything but sports in years. I don't think I'm missing anything. I get your point tho. I had a job where I had to watch the weather in the winter closely. I had The Weather Channel in my office. I depended on it. Now I get better forecasts on my phone. Same thing with news.
> 
> Rich


If you think your phone is going to give you an accurate weather forecast....
Social media is not news.

This is why we have problems. Streaming cuts off people from locals and what's really going on.


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## mjwagner

ejbvt said:


> If you think your phone is going to give you an accurate weather forecast....
> Social media is not news.
> 
> This is why we have problems. Streaming cuts off people from locals and what's really going on.


Huh? I use the Weather Underground app on my phone. In my experience the forecasts are much more accurate than some tv channel that is 40+ miles from where I live. Their are several other apps that provide very accurate "hyper local" weather forecasts. The farmers here where I live don't pay any attention to the tv weather forecasts anymore.


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## Rich

ejbvt said:


> If you think your phone is going to give you an accurate weather forecast....
> Social media is not news.
> 
> This is why we have problems. Streaming cuts off people from locals and what's really going on.


Yeah, I do think I get an accurate weather report on my phone's weather app. This is the only "social media" I take part in.

Rich


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## Rich

mjwagner said:


> Huh? I use the Weather Underground app on my phone. In my experience the forecasts are much more accurate than some tv channel that is 40+ miles from where I live. Their are several other apps that provide very accurate "hyper local" weather forecasts. The farmers here where I live don't pay any attention to the tv weather forecasts anymore.


Yup, my AccuWeather app is much more dependable than anything I've ever used. I've tried a couple other weather apps, most recently the NOAA app, and they seem to be as dependable. Hard to explain this to folks entrenched in "normal" TV.

Rich


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## lparsons21

Since my Sling subscription has until the end of the month before it runs out I thought I’d play around a bit. So here’s the setup I’m using with streaming and OTA:
1. OTA - Tivo with an indoor antenna. I can get ABC, Fox and some subchannels with this. Missing is CBS and NBC. CBS is covered well with CBS All Access subscription, NBC is covered with NBC On Demand with Sling Blue.
2. Cable type channels - All I need with Sling Blue, missing is ESPN and some others, none of which are of much importance.
3. General Paid Streaming - Netflix, Hulu no ads, Amazon Prime, CBS All Access, Disney+ (Nov 1st). Netflix and Hulu on monthly payments, Amazon, CBS and Disney on at least 1 year payments.
4. Unpaid Streaming - IMDb (from Amazon), Tubi, Crackle, Pluto and probably some others I’ve forgotten. All with ads and not way to get rid of them.

Cost comparison for only those thing I would pay in addition to what I already pay with cable and some streaming services.

Sling Blue w/DVR : $30/month
Cable. : $46/month approximately

Essentially a $16 additional cost over streaming to get convenience, auto ad-skipping, whole home sharing and a true unlimited time DVR and more DVR space by a lot. Both costs do not include Premium channel subscriptions as I turn them on and off when something strikes my fancy for binge watching.

I’m going to continue the experiment until the 24th of the month as that’s when the internet bandwidth metering switches to the next month. I’ll have enough time in to see whether bandwidth cap would be an issue. Current usage is 738Gb @22 days in so it should be OK.


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## B. Shoe

ejbvt said:


> If you think your phone is going to give you an accurate weather forecast....
> Social media is not news.
> 
> This is why we have problems. Streaming cuts off people from locals and what's really going on.


Coming from someone who worked in local broadcast news for seven years, sometimes the phone is just as reliable as the local meteorologist. 

Streaming isn't cutting people off from locals; many of the major services are incorporating locals (I live in market 174 and have all four broadcast locals via YTTV.) Three years ago, I would have agreed with that statement. It's now more of a lack of interest in people to watch local news, and or simply not pay attention.


----------



## lparsons21

Yep, some cable/sat replacement streamers have the local channels available though not all of them do. But even if you don’t have the local channel in the streamer,most channels have a website...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## mjwagner

Rich said:


> Yup, my AccuWeather app is much more dependable than anything I've ever used. I've tried a couple other weather apps, most recently the NOAA app, and they seem to be as dependable.  Hard to explain this to folks entrenched in "normal" TV.
> 
> Rich


Yeah, I have the AccuWeather app loaded on all my streaming devices. I've found it to be spot on and it's local to me not 40 miles away like the tv news channel weather. Some people still want a weather person to read the weather to them. I don't get it but different strokes for different folks as they say.


----------



## NYDutch

ejbvt said:


> If you think your phone is going to give you an accurate weather forecast....
> Social media is not news.
> 
> This is why we have problems. Streaming cuts off people from locals and what's really going on.


Not everything on our phones is "social media". I have several national and regional news apps on my phone, including the local newspaper. For weather, I use the NOAA Weather App Pro. The forecasts and radar come directly from NOAA and are optimized for my current location. I've found the accuracy to be very good...


----------



## ejbvt

lol at all the people who live with their nose in their phones and defend the confusing mess that is streaming.


----------



## RAD

lparsons21 said:


> Since my Sling subscription has until the end of the month before it runs out I thought I'd play around a bit. So here's the setup I'm using with streaming and OTA:
> 1. OTA - Tivo with an indoor antenna. I can get ABC, Fox and some subchannels with this. Missing is CBS and NBC. CBS is covered well with CBS All Access subscription, NBC is covered with NBC On Demand with Sling Blue.


You didn't mention PBS/WSIU (yea I went there and worked in the station). I remember when my grandparents were in that neck of the woods a rotator was necessary to pull the major networks in since they were all coming from different directions (Harrisburg, Paducah, Cape Giardeau, FOX didn't exist back then).


----------



## raott

No it doesn't. The locals in my city boldly advertise their availability on streaming services.



ejbvt said:


> If you think your phone is going to give you an accurate weather forecast....
> Social media is not news.
> 
> This is why we have problems. Streaming cuts off people from locals and what's really going on.


----------



## NYDutch

ejbvt said:


> lol at all the people who live with their nose in their phones and defend the confusing mess that is streaming.


I don't live with my nose in my phone, except maybe when I'm reading a book. I do use it as a valuable multi-tool though, for making calls, setting up my portable sat dish, converting units of measure, checking the weather, making payments, checking gas prices, and other uses that otherwise require a variety of devices. I have no social media apps like Facebook, etc, on my phone. Just an email app...


----------



## lparsons21

RAD said:


> You didn't mention PBS/WSIU (yea I went there and worked in the station). I remember when my grandparents were in that neck of the woods a rotator was necessary to pull the major networks in since they were all coming from different directions (Harrisburg, Paducah, Cape Giardeau, FOX didn't exist back then).


It isn't that bad now after they switched to digital. With a decent outdoor antenna and no rotor I would be able to get PBS/WSIU and 6 which is CBS. 12 is off angle and over in Cape Girardeau so it is more problematic.

Edit: oops! 6 is NBC, 12 is CBS.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Rich

NYDutch said:


> Not everything on our phones is "social media". I have several national and regional news apps on my phone, including the local newspaper. For weather, I use the NOAA Weather App Pro. The forecasts and radar come directly from NOAA and are optimized for my current location. I've found the accuracy to be very good...


I just tried NOAA and liked it. Very detailed.

Rich


----------



## Rich

NYDutch said:


> I don't live with my nose in my phone, except maybe when I'm reading a book. I do use it as a valuable multi-tool though, for making calls, setting up my portable sat dish, converting units of measure, checking the weather, making payments, checking gas prices, and other uses that otherwise require a variety of devices. I have no social media apps like Facebook, etc, on my phone. Just an email app...


Why anyone would mock having a computer in your pocket is beyond me. Seems like we see a lot of mocking these days...kinda like the fake 4K thing a couple years ago. Now damn near everyone has a 4K set and the mocking on that subject has completely stopped.

Rich


----------



## B. Shoe

ejbvt said:


> lol at all the people who live with their nose in their phones and defend the confusing mess that is streaming.


How is streaming confusing? I've had it for one month, and it's now as common place to me to watch TV as anything I was used to previously with my satellite provider. I'm far from defending a consumer choice, but moreso explaining my experience for those interesting in making the switch.

We're talking about switching apps and finding content to watch on TV, it's not really rocket science.


----------



## lparsons21

B. Shoe said:


> How is streaming confusing? I've had it for one month, and it's now as common place to me to watch TV as anything I was used to previously with my satellite provider. I'm far from defending a consumer choice, but moreso explaining my experience for those interesting in making the switch.
> 
> We're talking about switching apps and finding content to watch on TV, it's not really rocket science.


The confusion comes from multiple providers, all with their own unique UI and shows. A possible example was watching a series but hadn't finished it. Later decided to go back to it. Which service was I using? Netflix, Amazon, Pluto and the list goes on.
With cable/sat and a dvr, it doesn't matter as it is there in my list of shows to watch.
But you're right, it isn't rocket science, but it is a bit irritating.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Rich

B. Shoe said:


> How is streaming confusing? I've had it for one month, and it's now as common place to me to watch TV as anything I was used to previously with my satellite provider. I'm far from defending a consumer choice, but moreso explaining my experience for those interesting in making the switch.
> 
> We're talking about switching apps and finding content to watch on TV, it's not really rocket science.


You understood the benefits of streaming quickly. Most people are gonna be overwhelmed at first and if they don't take the time to figure it out...well, that causes posts like the one you replied to.

Rich


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## Rich

lparsons21 said:


> The confusion comes from multiple providers, all with their own unique UI and shows. A possible example was watching a series but hadn't finished it. Later decided to go back to it. Which service was I using? Netflix, Amazon, Pluto and the list goes on.
> With cable/sat and a dvr, it doesn't matter as it is there in my list of shows to watch.
> But you're right, it isn't rocket science, but it is a bit irritating.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


Patience, Lloyd, patience.

Rich


----------



## B. Shoe

lparsons21 said:


> The confusion comes from multiple providers, all with their own unique UI and shows. A possible example was watching a series but hadn't finished it. Later decided to go back to it. Which service was I using? Netflix, Amazon, Pluto and the list goes on.
> With cable/sat and a dvr, it doesn't matter as it is there in my list of shows to watch.
> But you're right, it isn't rocket science, but it is a bit irritating.


You're right, and it's probably a little uncouth of me to reply in that way. But the concept from some people that watching TV via streaming is like trying to decipher the clues in "National Treasure" is just a tad over the top.

It shouldn't be viewed as a 'mess', but a different system of viewing.


----------



## lparsons21

B. Shoe said:


> You're right, and it's probably a little uncouth of me to reply in that way. But the concept from some people that watching TV via streaming is like trying to decipher the clues in "National Treasure" is just a tad over the top.
> 
> It shouldn't be viewed as a 'mess', but a different system of viewing.


Fortunately there are some steps in the right direction going on. Apple's TV app is one as is the Roku app. The idea is to make one app to play videos from different sources transparently. We're not quite there yet and may never get there.

I've not used the Roku app, but I have used the Apple one quite a bit. There are basically 2 things going on with it.
Scenario #1 : You subscribe to the 'channel', like HBO or others, through Apple and videos play as if they are native to the app.

Scenario #2: You get something that is subscribed in a different way, but is compatible with the Apple TV app. You pick the video and the app launches the appropriate streamer to play what you selected. If you pick a video that is available on multiple platforms that are supported, it gives you the option to pick which one you want to use.

Not perfect by a long shot, but a very good step in the right direction, IMO.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## vfourmax

lparsons21 said:


> The confusion comes from multiple providers, all with their own unique UI and shows. A possible example was watching a series but hadn't finished it. Later decided to go back to it. Which service was I using? Netflix, Amazon, Pluto and the list goes on.
> With cable/sat and a dvr, it doesn't matter as it is there in my list of shows to watch.
> But you're right, it isn't rocket science, but it is a bit irritating.


Actually I find that the streaming option consolidates all of my tv watching into one device. When I had satellite tv if I wanted to watch say an Amazon "prime" show I had to switch sources from the satellite box to the firestick and change remotes to use a different device to view the programming. Now I incorporate all those services to be viewed through 1 device (I have a firestick) all using the same remote. I click on just the "home" button on the firestick remote and I can switch to a different streaming service and not have to play the musical chairs with devices and sources or remotes.

I sort of find that is much less complicated than needing to have multiple devices and remotes and switching the source that you are sending to the screen to be able to view the programming. As far as which service was you watching something on remembering that is no different than remembering which channel the show is on on the satellite service.


----------



## the2130

Rich said:


> Yet another channel I don't get. Not about to upgrade...but the wife keeps harping at me about the "other" Hallmark channels that we don't get on our plan. If I upgrade for that I'd get the dog channel. Not sure how the puppy feels about watching TV...maybe we should stop this, let me start a thread about dogs...done. Here's a link: Dogs
> 
> Rich


What package are those channels part of? I've had the HD Extra package since it was first offered, but I don't see it on my bill now. I would have dropped it a long time ago, but my wife watches the Hallmark Movies channel (565) all the time. Looking at the program guide, I see that all of the channels in that range (562-570) are grayed except for 565. I'm fine with not getting or paying for those channels, but why am I still getting 565 and not the others? I have the Premier package, which I've had all along. Does that include 565?


----------



## Rich

the2130 said:


> What package are those channels part of? I've had the HD Extra package since it was first offered, but I don't see it on my bill now. I would have dropped it a long time ago, but my wife watches the Hallmark Movies channel (565) all the time. Looking at the program guide, I see that all of the channels in that range (562-570) are grayed except for 565. I'm fine with not getting or paying for those channels, but why am I still getting 565 and not the others? I have the Premier package, which I've had all along. Does that include 565?


I didn't look at that any farther than learning I'd have to upgrade my package. That stopped that idea dead in it's tracks. No more additions to our monthly bill.

But, if you have the Premier package you should get just about everything. I had that package for years and it seemed to include most/all channels. Gave it up when I stopped watching movies on D*.

Rich


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## the2130

I used to watch HDNet Movies until they started running an animated channel bug every few minutes during movies. It was part of the HD Extra package that included a few channels and cost $5 a month. Those channels are grayed out in the program guide now, but Hallmark Movies is still available.


----------



## lparsons21

I’ve noticed that since I started playing around with streaming that during the day, instead of watching the reruns of reruns of reruns which dominate the cable type channels, I’m watching some older shows on one or the other streaming service.

In playing around I have to ask, which non cable/sat replacement streaming service has a UI that just doesn’t suck? It seems all of them just are non-intuitive. Suggestions that seldom suggest anything I might consider watching. Netflix’s never knowing which section it will start up with. And the list goes on.

Some channel specific streamers are actually better than the more generic ones. Apple’s TV app is a step in the right direction though it isn’t the best layout I’ve seen, but unified search of supported streaming services is nice as long as you know the show you want.

Here’s an issue I found this morning. NBCU’s app (and their individual channel versions too), audio is much different level depending on which box you run it on. Examples:
1. AppleTV - very low audio level compared to other apps.
2. Xbox One - much higher audio level in line with other apps on the Xbox
3. FireTV Cube - similar to the Xbox One

So why in hell is the volume level in that app so low on the AppleTV and not the others?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Rich

lparsons21 said:


> I've noticed that since I started playing around with streaming that during the day, instead of watching the reruns of reruns of reruns which dominate the cable type channels, I'm watching some older shows on one or the other streaming service.
> 
> In playing around I have to ask, which non cable/sat replacement streaming service has a UI that just doesn't suck? It seems all of them just are non-intuitive. Suggestions that seldom suggest anything I might consider watching. Netflix's never knowing which section it will start up with. And the list goes on.
> 
> Some channel specific streamers are actually better than the more generic ones. Apple's TV app is a step in the right direction though it isn't the best layout I've seen, but unified search of supported streaming services is nice as long as you know the show you want.
> 
> Here's an issue I found this morning. NBCU's app (and their individual channel versions too), audio is much different level depending on which box you run it on. Examples:
> 1. AppleTV - very low audio level compared to other apps.
> 2. Xbox One - much higher audio level in line with other apps on the Xbox
> 3. FireTV Cube - similar to the Xbox One
> 
> So why in hell is the volume level in that app so low on the AppleTV and not the others?
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


Some of the sites do suck when it comes to their UI. I think you should stick with one site, learn how to use that until you're comfortable with the UI. I learned by using the Netflix app exclusively. I can see why you're frustrated. Using a lot of streaming sites right off the bat doesn't work well.

You're gonna see different levels of volume on different sites, using different streaming devices, seems to be normal.

Patience, take your time.

Rich


----------



## lparsons21

Rich said:


> Some of the sites do suck when it comes to their UI. I think you should stick with one site, learn how to use that until you're comfortable with the UI. I learned by using the Netflix app exclusively. I can see why you're frustrated. Using a lot of streaming sites right off the bat doesn't work well.
> 
> You're gonna see different levels of volume on different sites, using different streaming devices, seems to be normal.
> 
> Patience, take your time.
> 
> Rich


Uh you know this isn't my first rodeo, right? 

I've been using Netflix pretty much when they started. I can navigate pretty much any UI just fine, but I can also note the irritation of the poor designs.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## the2130

lparsons21 said:


> Uh you know this isn't my first rodeo, right?
> 
> I've been using Netflix pretty much when they started. I can navigate pretty much any UI just fine, but I can also note the irritation of the poor designs.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


The interface I hate the most is Netflix, especially the Roku app. You can't browse for titles without videos playing.in windows. You try to discuss what to watch with your spouse with the sound from videos blaring out from the TV. And when you decide on a movie or show to watch, it starts playing before you press the play button. Then when the credits roll, it shrinks to a window so small you can't read it unless you fiddle with the remote. And if you try to back it up, it shrinks to a window again. Very annoying.


----------



## Rich

lparsons21 said:


> Uh you know this isn't my first rodeo, right?
> 
> I've been using Netflix pretty much when they started. I can navigate pretty much any UI just fine, but I can also note the irritation of the poor designs.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


Seemed like you were getting frustrated by the UIs.

Rich


----------



## Rich

the2130 said:


> The interface I hate the most is Netflix, especially the Roku app. You can't browse for titles without videos playing.in windows. You try to discuss what to watch with your spouse with the sound from videos blaring out from the TV. And when you decide on a movie or show to watch, it starts playing before you press the play button. Then when the credits roll, it shrinks to a window so small you can't read it unless you fiddle with the remote. And if you try to back it up, it shrinks to a window again. Very annoying.


Oh yeah, you are right about the auto-play thing on NF. You are not alone, it annoys a lot of us. Why they don't put a stop to it is beyond me. This is relatively new and I have seen it mentioned in several articles. Hopefully they will get rid of it. Don't see what purpose it serves.

Rich


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## the2130

Rich said:


> Oh yeah, you are right about the auto-play thing on NF. You are not alone, it annoys a lot of us. Why they don't put a stop to it is beyond me. This is relatively new and I have seen it mentioned in several articles. Hopefully they will get rid of it. Don't see what purpose it serves.
> 
> Rich


You can turn off the auto-play in your account settings so it doesn't start another episode of a show, but those other "features" can't be disabled. They must get a ton of complaints about that stuff, but so far they refuse to do anything about it or even acknowledge the complaints.

Amazon has a much cleaner and more pleasant interface. You can browse in silence, it won't start playing a video until you tell it to, and the credits run full-screen with only a small graphic in the lower corner to give you the option to skip the credits and start the next episode of a show.


----------



## grover517

lparsons21 said:


> The confusion comes from multiple providers, all with their own unique UI and shows. A possible example was watching a series but hadn't finished it. Later decided to go back to it. Which service was I using? Netflix, Amazon, Pluto and the list goes on.


But isn't that more of a negative for D* than anything else since D* has no way to integrate OTT apps and services in the same UI as it's own programming? There are solutions out there than can and do integrate OTA, OTT and on demand services into one single UI. FireTV is one of them.



> With cable/sat and a dvr, it doesn't matter as it is there in my list of shows to watch.


There are millions that are, and will continue to be comfortable with what they know and have trouble finding any value in doing things a bit differently than they always have. I myself used to think that way and had AT&T not came along, I would most likely still be with D*, paying more than I had to and putting up with all the strings that came along with D*, simply because I was comfortable and felt no need to change things up. Now that I have actually experienced the "dark side" LOL, it's not nearly as bad as many seem to think it is.

For me, I have PS Vue Core tier, Philo and PlutoTV. My FireTV UI integrates all three of them along with my 40+ locals I get from my antenna and my Recast 4 tuner OTA DVR into not only a single UI but a consolidated "LIVE" 2 week channel guide as well. I can even setup a favorites list that can include channels from all of those services and with a single click, tune to anyone of them. So no jumping around between apps or trying to remember which channel is in which app/service. So in this sense, I really am not missing anything D* offered me previously. It's still all right there in one place, UI and 2 week channel guide.

The only major difference I have now from my D* service is in regards to how I record things. Of course, any OTA programming I wish to record can be done directly within the FireTV Recast UI or channel guide. As for the cloud DVR's, I do have to go in to each one to either setup or playback a recording but it's really not that big of a deal and once you have your regular shows setup to record, I rarely go into them any more other than to just playback recordings. But even then, with the way the cloud DVR's work, even if I don't setup a recording, they keep every single show, episode, etc. for up to 28 days so I can easily go in and just grab it. I may not be able to skip commercials all the time for "on demand" content (but neither can you with D*) but that isn't high on our "must have list" either and for the vast majority of the time, it's never an issue on recorded content either in the cloud DVR or in the Recast.

When I was with D*, I hated having to jump between not only between the D* and TV remotes, but various apps like Amazon Prime Video, Vudu and Netflix apps. With the FireTV UI recently watched list and/or and Alexa, it's really easy now to go right back to what I was watching. I also can now stream EVERYTHING I have regardless of it's source, including my OTA locals, from anywhere else in the US without the need for a VPN to get around local channel restrictions or sports blackouts. We have 4 TV's with FireTV 4K sticks and with the PS Vue 5 stream limit, Philo's 3 stream limit, Pluto has no limits and our Recast DVR has a 2 stream limit. None of this is an issue for us either.

At then end of the day, if it's not a good fit for you then great, stick with what you have. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. I am the first to admit that streaming everything may not be a good fit for everyone. But by simply allowing myself just a bit of leeway in regards to trying something new and doing a bit of up front research on my own vs. listening to all the naysayers out there, I was pleasantly surprised on what was actually available and how well it could actually work for us.


----------



## Rich

the2130 said:


> You can turn off the auto-play in your account settings so it doesn't start another episode of a show, but those other "features" can't be disabled. They must get a ton of complaints about that stuff, but so far they refuse to do anything about it or even acknowledge the complaints.
> 
> Amazon has a much cleaner and more pleasant interface. You can browse in silence, it won't start playing a video until you tell it to, and the credits run full-screen with only a small graphic in the lower corner to give you the option to skip the credits and start the next episode of a show.


I've read many complaints about auto-play on NF. Somebody in power must really like it. Maybe they have a dopey CEO too...

We do have Fire TV devices but we use the AP app on our ATVs. Kinda like the NF app on the ATVs. I like both apps. Struggle with Hulu and the ATVs, that bothers me.

Rich


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## lparsons21

Well to add an irritant to cable, Tivo is changing how recorded shows play. They are adding a pre-roll ad to the start of any recorded show. It is skippable, but it is very slow to do so according to reports. And Tivo has told a few people that have this latest update that they can turn it off on a case-by-case basis if you call in and complain.
The crappiest part of this is that Tivo recently introduced auto-skipping for ads, but it doesn’t work on these pre-roll ads. 
Assuming the worst, that I can’t get rid of those, then it may mean I’ll switch to streaming/OTA sooner than later.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Rich

lparsons21 said:


> Well to add an irritant to cable, Tivo is changing how recorded shows play. They are adding a pre-roll ad to the start of any recorded show. It is skippable, but it is very slow to do so according to reports. And Tivo has told a few people that have this latest update that they can turn it off on a case-by-case basis if you call in and complain.
> The crappiest part of this is that Tivo recently introduced auto-skipping for ads, but it doesn't work on these pre-roll ads.
> Assuming the worst, that I can't get rid of those, then it may mean I'll switch to streaming/OTA sooner than later.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


Big changes, all for more money?

Rich


----------



## lparsons21

Rich said:


> Big changes, all for more money?
> 
> Rich


Yeah, Tivo is not doing so well. They are following the ATT methodology to improve that by pissing off their customers! 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## the2130

lparsons21 said:


> Well to add an irritant to cable, Tivo is changing how recorded shows play. They are adding a pre-roll ad to the start of any recorded show. It is skippable, but it is very slow to do so according to reports. And Tivo has told a few people that have this latest update that they can turn it off on a case-by-case basis if you call in and complain.
> The crappiest part of this is that Tivo recently introduced auto-skipping for ads, but it doesn't work on these pre-roll ads.
> Assuming the worst, that I can't get rid of those, then it may mean I'll switch to streaming/OTA sooner than later.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


When you switch back and forth between recorded shows, does the ad appear each time or only at the beginning of the program?


----------



## lparsons21

the2130 said:


> When you switch back and forth between recorded shows, does the ad appear each time or only at the beginning of the program?


I haven't gotten the update yet, so I can only report what has been said. It appears that the ad only appears the first time you play the recording.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## the2130

Rich said:


> I've read many complaints about auto-play on NF. Somebody in power must really like it. Maybe they have a dopey CEO too...
> 
> We do have Fire TV devices but we use the AP app on our ATVs. Kinda like the NF app on the ATVs. I like both apps. Struggle with Hulu and the ATVs, that bothers me.
> 
> Rich


Netflix got tons of complaints when they started the auto-play feature, especially from users with data caps who said it was wasting bandwidth if they fell asleep watching a program. They added the capability to disable it, but they have ignored all the complaints about shrinking the credits and the other annoying features. There are tons of complaints on Reddit and other sites, so it's pretty clear they are just ignoring the complaints they get from subscribers.

BTW, what are AP and ATV?


----------



## inkahauts

They all prefer to have you watching while sleeping so they can increase numbers over just stopping at the end of an episode.


----------



## TheRatPatrol

the2130 said:


> BTW, what are AP and ATV?


AP = Amazon Prime
ATV = All Terran Veh..... OH wait.....Apple TV.


----------



## the2130

TheRatPatrol said:


> AP = Amazon Prime
> ATV = All Terran Veh..... OH wait.....Apple TV.


Thanks, I get it now.


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## the2130

inkahauts said:


> They all prefer to have you watching while sleeping so they can increase numbers over just stopping at the end of an episode.


Aside from the data usage, it would be annoying to have to go back and figure out what episode you were on when you fell asleep.


----------



## Rich

lparsons21 said:


> Yeah, Tivo is not doing so well. They are following the ATT methodology to improve that by pissing off their customers!
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


Just read this article this morning: Confirmed: TiVo Will Start Airing Pre-Roll Ads on Your DVR Recordings - Cord Cutters News
Yeah, that would aggravate me.

Rich


----------



## Rich

the2130 said:


> Netflix got tons of complaints when they started the auto-play feature, especially from users with data caps who said it was wasting bandwidth if they fell asleep watching a program. They added the capability to disable it, but they have ignored all the complaints about shrinking the credits and the other annoying features. There are tons of complaints on Reddit and other sites, so it's pretty clear they are just ignoring the complaints they get from subscribers.
> 
> BTW, what are AP and ATV?


*A*mazon *P*rime and *A*pple *TV* boxes. I knew about the complaints, but you said they added the capability to disable the auto-play, how is that done? It's not a big annoyance to me but I'd be happy if I could stop it.

Like I said, someone in power at NF must really like the concept of auto-play.

Rich


----------



## Rich

inkahauts said:


> They all prefer to have you watching while sleeping so they can increase numbers over just stopping at the end of an episode.


Thinking conspiracy? That would fit into the way things are going today.

Rich


----------



## crkeehn

Rich said:


> *A*mazon *P*rime and *A*pple *TV* boxes. I knew about the complaints, but you said they added the capability to disable the auto-play, how is that done? It's not a big annoyance to me but I'd be happy if I could stop it.
> 
> Like I said, someone in power at NF must really like the concept of auto-play.
> 
> Rich


Go into Netflix on the web. Select Account (upper right hand side) and when you open the account menu, open Playback Settings. You can disable autoplay there.


----------



## phrelin

On this thread I have learned that although Netflix caters to the binge watcher with the next episode auto-play default, they do offer old guys like me the option of turning it off. My frustration level with NF dropped significantly!


----------



## Rich

crkeehn said:


> Go into Netflix on the web. Select Account (upper right hand side) and when you open the account menu, open Playback Settings. You can disable autoplay there.


I knew that. I thought we were talking about how the programs start playing "automatically" when we hover over a tile and the sound track comes on. I don't think there's a way to disable that. Sorry for the confusion.

Rich


----------



## Rich

phrelin said:


> On this thread I have learned that although Netflix caters to the binge watcher with the next episode auto-play default, they do offer old guys like me the option of turning it off. My frustration level with NF dropped significantly!


Rarely get frustrated by anything NF does. I can see how auto-play would be disturbing.

About binge watching: I actually started binging on series in the late '90s...on cable, then D* content. With VCRs. That was complicated. DVRs and D* came into our lives and the DVRs made it a lot less complicated. Then came Netflix and the other video services and complications went out the window. Like Amazon, NF keeps it simple.

Rich


----------



## B. Shoe

Rich said:


> Rarely get frustrated by anything NF does. I can see how auto-play would be disturbing.
> 
> About binge watching: I actually started binging on series in the late '90s...on cable, then D* content. With VCRs. That was complicated.


The ol' VCR+ system?


----------



## mjwagner

Rich said:


> I knew that. I thought we were talking about how the programs start playing "automatically" when we hover over a tile and the sound track comes on. I don't think there's a way to disable that. Sorry for the confusion.
> 
> Rich


AFAIK their is no way to disable that behavior. It is the main thing I dislike about NF.


----------



## TheRatPatrol

B. Shoe said:


> The ol' VCR+ system?


The good ole days.


----------



## pottert1

call me the oddball, but I actually like the preview shown when I hover over a tile. It often shows me enough of a preview to tell whether it was a decently made show, or a sharknado.


----------



## the2130

crkeehn said:


> Go into Netflix on the web. Select Account (upper right hand side) and when you open the account menu, open Playback Settings. You can disable autoplay there.


Unfortunately there isn't any way to stop the credits from shrinking down to a tiny window, other than using a 3rd party app like PlayOn.


----------



## Rich

B. Shoe said:


> The ol' VCR+ system?


Yes, if it wasn't for VCR + I don't think I could have done it. I had cable and twelve VCRs at one point. Had hundreds of blank tapes and a log book to keep track of what was on each tape. It was a PITA, but it worked and allowed me to begin binging. Expensive too. I used Sony VCRs and had lots of hardware problems. Had to keep a couple new VCRs in their boxes as backups.

Discovered DVRs shortly after joining D* in 2002 and got rid of all the tapes and VCRs. Thought DVRs were the ultimate for a person who wanted to do what I was doing...and then streaming entered our lives. Now it's so easy it's almost ridiculous. Evolution's a wonderful thing, I can't wait to see what's better than streaming.

Rich


----------



## Rich

mjwagner said:


> AFAIK their is no way to disable that behavior. It is the main thing I dislike about NF.


It's the only thing about NF that I can think of that annoys me. Aside from never renting UHD discs. I really wanted a 4K disc player. Now I see no need for one. I'm curious, what else annoys you about NF?

Rich


----------



## Rich

TheRatPatrol said:


> The good ole days.


Oh yeah, get up for work, take a shower and spend quite a bit of time programming VCRs every day. Wonderful time in my life. Every room, except the bathrooms and kitchen, had racks of tapes and they had to be sorted numerically. More work than I thought it would be.

Rich


----------



## Rich

pottert1 said:


> call me the oddball, but I actually like the preview shown when I hover over a tile. It often shows me enough of a preview to tell whether it was a decently made show, or a sharknado.


Much as it annoys me it is a useful tool at times. I use it to see if the content is in English. Finding a use for something that annoys me makes it less difficult to deal with.

Rich


----------



## mjwagner

Rich said:


> It's the only thing about NF that I can think of that annoys me. Aside from never renting UHD discs. I really wanted a 4K disc player. Now I see no need for one. I'm curious, what else annoys you about NF?
> 
> Rich


Honestly, I'm not sure. That specific "feature" annoys me so much that I spend as little time as possible using the NF interface...LOL.


----------



## TheRatPatrol

Rich said:


> Oh yeah, get up for work, take a shower and spend quite a bit of time programming VCRs every day. Wonderful time in my life. Every room, except the bathrooms and kitchen, had racks of tapes and they had to be sorted numerically. More work than I thought it would be.
> 
> Rich


I had 4 or 5 VCRs at one time and did the same thing you did.

Then I got two of these Sony DVRs on clearance from Tweeter for $250, used them for OTA only. Great DVRs until they couldn't support the digital OTA guide anymore. Luckily I sold them before that happened.
Sony DHG CableCard HD DVR Series
Tweeter (store) - Wikipedia

Good times. Well except the working part.


----------



## billsharpe

We have a VCR gathering dust in the living room. Probably haven't used it in five years but we have some old family tapes still around. DVD player in family room is used occasionally, but most viewing is done by DVR or streaming services, mainly Netflix, Amazon Prime, and Acorn.


----------



## Rich

billsharpe said:


> We have a VCR gathering dust in the living room. Probably haven't used it in five years but we have some old family tapes still around. DVD player in family room is used occasionally, but most viewing is done by DVR or streaming services, mainly Netflix, Amazon Prime, and Acorn.


Had all the tapes we valued converted to DVDs and threw all the VCRs away. Another sad moment.

Rich


----------



## billsharpe

My one DVR is seldom more than 30% full. We seldom record two shows at once. I can only remember one time when we recorded two shows and watched a program OTA at the same time.


----------



## lparsons21

OK, my month long experiment is done and over. The first thing I learned is that I could drop my internet tier down from 200/20 w/2TB cap to the 100/10 w/1TB cap even if I went all streaming. After the month was up my usage hit a bit over 800Gb of use.

I also learned that I could live with streaming only and maybe save money depending on which channels I was willing to give up.

In the end, I just changed my cable subscription to Family Video and dropped my internet tier. Prior bill was $198 all in, new bill will be $145 all in. The internet tier as standalone would be $80, so about $65 for the TV portion. Next year when the next bump in the ‘deal’ comes around I’ll re-evaluate the setup.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## B. Shoe

lparsons21 said:


> OK, my month long experiment is done and over. The first thing I learned is that I could drop my internet tier down from 200/20 w/2TB cap to the 100/10 w/1TB cap even if I went all streaming. After the month was up my usage hit a bit over 800Gb of use.
> 
> I also learned that I could live with streaming only and maybe save money depending on which channels I was willing to give up.
> 
> In the end, I just changed my cable subscription to Family Video and dropped my internet tier. Prior bill was $198 all in, new bill will be $145 all in. The internet tier as standalone would be $80, so about $65 for the TV portion. Next year when the next bump in the 'deal' comes around I'll re-evaluate the setup.


Enjoyed a lot of your personal insight and discussion through this. In regards to your internet usage, do you think your internet usage could potentially increase during the winter months? That would be my only concern in regards to lowering to the 1TB cap.

I'm now finishing month two of an all-streaming world. A lot of my viewing seems second nature now. Flipping apps, finding content, voice search. Just a new system that I've mastered and I have no issue with it, and rarely do I miss much of the days prior with satellite.


----------



## lparsons21

In my case, probably not. During decent weather I go to the golf course for a couple hours every day and then after that the TV is on. When winter weather keeps me off the course I generally don’t turn on the TV until about 3 hours after I get up.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## lparsons21

Here’s a suggestion for a real butt kicker of a streaming experience, especially for those with Atmos gear.

The Xbox One is the only box other than a Windows PC that has the Dolby Experience. With that app on the Xbox One you can have Atmos on nearly all audio. That’s because it either passes through Atmos from sources having it, or does a heck of a fake job to other audio. Huge improvement to the audio! The faked Atmos with 5.1 audio is excellent. Stereo audio sources aren’t as good but are better than just the stereo.

While the Xbox One has quite a few streaming apps available, there are lots it doesn’t have. So add a Roku to the mix. Plug the Roku into the HDMI in port and you have all those apps that the Xbox One doesn’t have, including the superb AppleTV app.

The HDMI in port doesn’t do 4K but streaming apps that have 4K are all available on the Xbox One so that isn’t an issue.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## trh

Rich said:


> I knew that. I thought we were talking about how the programs start playing "automatically" when we hover over a tile and the sound track comes on. I don't think there's a way to disable that. Sorry for the confusion.
> 
> Rich


There is now. I received an email today from Netflix.

"We've heard the feedback loud and clear - members can now control whether or not they see autoplay previews on Netflix."



> *Autoplay previews while browsing on all devices*
> When you browse Netflix, you can automatically play trailers using autoplay to get a preview of a TV show or movie.
> 
> To turn autoplay on or off:
> 
> 
> Sign In to Netflix from a web browser.
> 
> Select Manage Profiles from the menu.
> 
> Select the profile you'd like to update.
> Check or uncheck the option to Autoplay previews while browsing on all devices.


NOTE:

There may be a delay before the setting takes affect. You can force an update by switching to another profile, then switching back in order to reload your profile with the updated setting.


----------



## the2130

trh said:


> There is now. I received an email today from Netflix.
> 
> "We've heard the feedback loud and clear - members can now control whether or not they see autoplay previews on Netflix."
> 
> NOTE:
> 
> There may be a delay before the setting takes affect. You can force an update by switching to another profile, then switching back in order to reload your profile with the updated setting.


What about shrinking the credits to a thumbnail? Are they listening to feedback on that? There have been tons of complaints about that, which they have ignored for years. And what about starting the video in a window before you press the Play button? Will that be fixed by this update? Netflix has so many annoying features, it's just a pain to watch anymore. I'm actually happy they are losing they are losing so much of their content to other services.


----------



## trh

the2130 said:


> What about shrinking the credits to a thumbnail? Are they listening to feedback on that? There have been tons of complaints about that, which they have ignored for years. And what about starting the video in a window before you press the Play button? Will that be fixed by this update? Netflix has so many annoying features, it's just a pain to watch anymore. I'm actually happy they are losing they are losing so much of their content to other services.


The credits on a thumbnail can be changed by using an arrow (I think Left?) and then Select. Then you're back to full-screen credits.

Here are the two auto-play features they changed: How do I turn autoplay on or off?


----------



## the2130

trh said:


> The credits on a thumbnail can be changed by using an arrow (I think Left?) and then Select. Then you're back to full-screen credits.
> 
> Here are the two auto-play features they changed: How do I turn autoplay on or off?


Yes, I'm aware of that. I prefer not having to fiddle with the remote while I'm reading the credits. And if you rewind a few seconds to see the part you missed, it will shrink again.

The option of turning off auto-play was added years ago. That's nothing new.


----------



## mjwagner

the2130 said:


> Yes, I'm aware of that. I prefer not having to fiddle with the remote while I'm reading the credits. And if you rewind a few seconds to see the part you missed, it will shrink again.
> 
> The option of turning off auto-play was added years ago. That's nothing new.


Turning off auto-play of next episode was added some time ago, you are correct. But what was added just today was the ability to toggle off auto-play of previews when browsing. That toggle was just added.


----------



## phrelin

the2130 said:


> What about shrinking the credits to a thumbnail? Are they listening to feedback on that? There have been tons of complaints about that, which they have ignored for years. And what about starting the video in a window before you press the Play button? Will that be fixed by this update? Netflix has so many annoying features, it's just a pain to watch anymore. I'm actually happy they are losing they are losing so much of their content to other services.


It's interesting how different people view different features. I think there should be control over things like the credits, etc. But with that said I love being able to avoid watching the intro credits and the end credits on TV series. I watch them once in a while, but I really don't need to see them every episode - life is short, I don't want to waste it. I can look up the guest stars of episodes on IMDb. Different strokes, as they say.


----------



## Rich

trh said:


> There is now. I received an email today from Netflix.
> 
> "We've heard the feedback loud and clear - members can now control whether or not they see autoplay previews on Netflix."
> 
> NOTE:
> 
> There may be a delay before the setting takes affect. You can force an update by switching to another profile, then switching back in order to reload your profile with the updated setting.


Finally. I just shut it down. Thanks.

Rich


----------



## Rich

phrelin said:


> It's interesting how different people view different features. I think there should be control over things like the credits, etc. But with that said I love being able to avoid watching the intro credits and the end credits on TV series. I watch them once in a while, but I really don't need to see them every episode - life is short, I don't want to waste it. I can look up the guest stars of episodes on IMDb. Different strokes, as they say.


Agreed, we do it the same way. And it is much easier to just use IMDb for finding cast members. On an ATV you can ask the remote to "show cast of this episode" too. That works well at times. When using a Fire TV Cube (or any Fire TV device) you can use the "Diamond" feature to see the cast.

Rich


----------



## Rich

mjwagner said:


> Honestly, I'm not sure. That specific "feature" annoys me so much that I spend as little time as possible using the NF interface...LOL.


A bit happier today?

Rich


----------



## mjwagner

Rich said:


> A bit happier today?
> 
> Rich


Finally able to actually use the Netflix UI to browse...yes. Really does make me laugh though...first world problems for sure...


----------



## the2130

phrelin said:


> It's interesting how different people view different features. I think there should be control over things like the credits, etc. But with that said I love being able to avoid watching the intro credits and the end credits on TV series. I watch them once in a while, but I really don't need to see them every episode - life is short, I don't want to waste it. I can look up the guest stars of episodes on IMDb. Different strokes, as they say.


Yes, it's nice to be able to skip the intro to a TV show and to go directly to the next episode from the credits, but there is no reason it shouldn't be left up to viewers to decide for themselves. Not everyone wants to go to a web browser or app to look up cast information. And what's the point of even showing the credits if it's in a window so small you can't read it? Amazon gives you the ability to jump directly to the next episode by placing a thumbnail in the corner of the screen while the credits are playing instead of shrinking the credits screen to the size of a thumbnail.


----------



## the2130

mjwagner said:


> Finally able to actually use the Netflix UI to browse...yes. Really does make me laugh though...first world problems for sure...


I was able turn off that feature, which is an improvement. However, when I pull up an episode of a show, it still starts playing in a window before I press the button to start it, which is very annoying. Why would anyone want the video to start before they are ready to watch, and why would anyone design a program to work that way?


----------



## Rich

the2130 said:


> I was able turn off that feature, which is an improvement. However, when I pull up an episode of a show, it still starts playing in a window before I press the button to start it, which is very annoying. Why would anyone want the video to start before they are ready to watch, and why would anyone design a program to work that way?


No idea why they are designed that way. But I do think NF is by far the best video streaming service when it comes to navigating thru the app. Yeah, there are some small annoying things I don't like but for the most part I think NF is rather trouble free. Certainly better than AP or Hulu. Not talking about the content, just the navigation thru the app.

Rich


----------



## lparsons21

Well, not experimenting any more! Cut cable TV off today.

Brought my Tivo in and ran a new setup for OTA, getting ABC, CBS and Fox with their subchannels, NBC is a no go as expected.

Rest of the setup is an AppleTV4K with Sling Blue/Hulu no ads/CBS All Access no ads. Didn’t lose any content availability that I watch or would want to watch. Savings about $45/month.

I’m going to keep watching bandwidth usage the rest of this cycle and the next to see if I can drop down a step.


----------



## lparsons21

Well after monitoring bandwidth usage for the last month doing nearly all streaming it looks like I won’t be able to drop down a step as I hit the bandwidth cap for that level yesterday.

After I got the TV portion of cable turned off and they put in their filter, I swapped my Tivo unit for the one with lifetime service. Surprisingly it got all my locals including both CBS and NBC, and of course all the sub-channels.


----------



## lparsons21

I got to thinking a bit today, always a dangerous thing for me!
Since my Tivo gets all my locals and does DVR so well complete with auto-ad skipping, I could make some changes to my streaming subscriptions.
Hulu provides me with NBC, Fox and ABC shows next day with no ads at my current subscription. But I also use it a lot for daytime viewing where my attention is not always on what is on the TV. So is not having ads worth paying for? I’m beginning to think, no.
CBS provides me with same or next day prime time CBS shows plus some originals and no ads. 
So I’m beginning to think maybe it makes more financial sense to change to ad-supported on Hulu and CBS which saves about $10/month. That would make my total streaming bill, not counting the internet cost come in at around $47. That’s made up of Sling Blue w/expanded DVR ($35), Hulu ($6), CBS ($6).


----------



## wmb

lparsons21 said:


> I got to thinking a bit today, always a dangerous thing for me!


The only question is whether ads during the Hulu or CBS All Access original programming is an issue.

Do you need the Sling DVR? Can you get that content on-demand?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## the2130

lparsons21 said:


> I got to thinking a bit today, always a dangerous thing for me!
> Since my Tivo gets all my locals and does DVR so well complete with auto-ad skipping, I could make some changes to my streaming subscriptions.
> Hulu provides me with NBC, Fox and ABC shows next day with no ads at my current subscription. But I also use it a lot for daytime viewing where my attention is not always on what is on the TV. So is not having ads worth paying for? I'm beginning to think, no.
> CBS provides me with same or next day prime time CBS shows plus some originals and no ads.
> So I'm beginning to think maybe it makes more financial sense to change to ad-supported on Hulu and CBS which saves about $10/month. That would make my total streaming bill, not counting the internet cost come in at around $47. That's made up of Sling Blue w/expanded DVR ($35), Hulu ($6), CBS ($6).


I will gladly pay an extra $10 per month for the ad-free versions of those services. I have ad-free Hulu and CBS All Access. In fact, I have the Disney+/Hulu/ESPN+ bundle with ad-free Hulu. It's just not worth it to me to put up with ads to save a few bucks a month.


----------



## the2130

Rich said:


> No idea why they are designed that way. But I do think NF is by far the best video streaming service when it comes to navigating thru the app. Yeah, there are some small annoying things I don't like but for the most part I think NF is rather trouble free. Certainly better than AP or Hulu. Not talking about the content, just the navigation thru the app.
> 
> Rich


The Netflix interface does have some advantages in navigating to the stuff you want to watch, but it is over-designed with a lot of intrusive features. It's like it was designed by a bunch of videogame geeks who have no idea how people actually watch TV. They couldn't have spouses or they would realize that most people don't want the sound of previews blaring out from the TV when they are trying to talk or decide what to watch. And I doubt there are many people out there who want a movie or show to start playing in a window before they are ready to start watching.


----------



## lparsons21

wmb said:


> The only question is whether ads during the Hulu or CBS All Access original programming is an issue.
> 
> Do you need the Sling DVR? Can you get that content on-demand?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sling's on-demand isn't so good IMO. If I were more willing to put up with ads, YouTubeTV is much better for VOD. Covers more channels. So yeah, you do need their expanded DVR though an argument could be made that right now, since the cable channels aren't really putting out much in the way of new shows, I could just use the included and bump it up when the cable channels new stuff starts up again. But then again, the basic DVR is so small that you really would have to manage it closely.

As to ads. Well I'm more tolerant of them for daytime watching as I don't pay close attention then. Usually it is noise in the room while I do something else. The difference with streaming is that I get to pick what reruns of old shows I want to do that with.


----------



## lparsons21

the2130 said:


> I will gladly pay an extra $10 per month for the ad-free versions of those services. I have ad-free Hulu and CBS All Access. In fact, I have the Disney+/Hulu/ESPN+ bundle with ad-free Hulu. It's just not worth it to me to put up with ads to save a few bucks a month.


That's kind of my feeling. I keep thinking that I'll go to ad-supported levels but everytime I do I end up changing back.


----------



## mjwagner

the2130 said:


> The Netflix interface does have some advantages in navigating to the stuff you want to watch, but it is over-designed with a lot of intrusive features. It's like it was designed by a bunch of videogame geeks who have no idea how people actually watch TV. They couldn't have spouses or they would realize that most people don't want the sound of previews blaring out from the TV when they are trying to talk or decide what to watch. And I doubt there are many people out there who want a movie or show to start playing in a window before they are ready to start watching.


Netflix lets you turn the auto previews when browsing off now. That changed was rolled out 3 or 4 weeks ago.


----------



## Rich

the2130 said:


> I will gladly pay an extra $10 per month for the ad-free versions of those services. I have ad-free Hulu and CBS All Access. In fact, I have the Disney+/Hulu/ESPN+ bundle with ad-free Hulu. It's just not worth it to me to put up with ads to save a few bucks a month.


Yup, every app we have is commercial free. Worth every penny.

Rich


----------



## Rich

the2130 said:


> The Netflix interface does have some advantages in navigating to the stuff you want to watch, but it is over-designed with a lot of intrusive features. It's like it was designed by a bunch of videogame geeks who have no idea how people actually watch TV. They couldn't have spouses or they would realize that most people don't want the sound of previews blaring out from the TV when they are trying to talk or decide what to watch. And I doubt there are many people out there who want a movie or show to start playing in a window before they are ready to start watching.


I think the auto-play thing is fixed. I shut it down a few weeks ago. Haven't paid attention to whether that worked. As I said, there are some things about NF that can be annoying but it seems to me it has the best interface of all the apps we've tried. Especially when you throw an ATV into the mix, it seems like the ATVs were designed with NF in mind.

Rich


----------



## the2130

mjwagner said:


> Netflix lets you turn the auto previews when browsing off now. That changed was rolled out 3 or 4 weeks ago.


Yes, but it still starts playing a program in a window before you tell it to start. They didn't fix that.


----------



## Rich

the2130 said:


> Yes, but it still starts playing a program in a window before you tell it to start. They didn't fix that.


Yup, just saw that yesterday.

Rich


----------



## lparsons21

To bring things up to date. After trying YouTube TV, my Sling/Hulu/CBS:AA combo and reviewing quite a few other ways to skin the streaming cat, I’ve settled in with the Sling combo.

Advantages :
Both Hulu and CBS shows can be managed via the AppleTV app on the AppleTV. That isn’t so if you use the combo on any other box.
Sling shows, and any other live streaming service, cannot be managed or even shown in the AppleTV app.

Disadvantages:
Managing it is a little hinky as you have to use multiple apps to see all I want. Not horrible, but still not as slick as just using one app to do the same thing.
HDPQ varies between the services a bit. Sling for me is fine, but others have noted that it is a bit soft.
No RSNs at all. Not a big deal for me as I don’t watch them anyway, but this wouldn’t be the way for a sports fan.

Overall with streaming, it really is difficult to get everything in one package. The only one to truly do that is ATTTV if you are willing to pay the huge premium for that service. So regardless of which service you pick, you probably will fiddle around trying to get that one or two channels that you want.

An example is Paramount, AMC and BBCA. Paramount is missing from quite a few services. AMC & BBCA are available in many more. YTTV has AMC & BBCA but not Hallmark & Lifetime. Hulu+ has Hallmark & Lifetime but not AMC & BBCA.


----------



## Rich

lparsons21 said:


> To bring things up to date. After trying YouTube TV, my Sling/Hulu/CBS:AA combo and reviewing quite a few other ways to skin the streaming cat, I've settled in with the Sling combo.
> 
> Advantages :
> Both Hulu and CBS shows can be managed via the AppleTV app on the AppleTV. That isn't so if you use the combo on any other box.
> Sling shows, and any other live streaming service, cannot be managed or even shown in the AppleTV app.
> 
> Disadvantages:
> Managing it is a little hinky as you have to use multiple apps to see all I want. Not horrible, but still not as slick as just using one app to do the same thing.
> HDPQ varies between the services a bit. Sling for me is fine, but others have noted that it is a bit soft.
> No RSNs at all. Not a big deal for me as I don't watch them anyway, but this wouldn't be the way for a sports fan.
> 
> Overall with streaming, it really is difficult to get everything in one package. The only one to truly do that is ATTTV if you are willing to pay the huge premium for that service. So regardless of which service you pick, you probably will fiddle around trying to get that one or two channels that you want.
> 
> An example is Paramount, AMC and BBCA. Paramount is missing from quite a few services. AMC & BBCA are available in many more. YTTV has AMC & BBCA but not Hallmark & Lifetime. Hulu+ has Hallmark & Lifetime but not AMC & BBCA.


I'd like to see you try ATTTV with the box and remote. Appreciate what you've done so far, like to see more.

Rich


----------



## lparsons21

Rich said:


> I'd like to see you try ATTTV with the box and remote. Appreciate what you've done so far, like to see more.
> 
> Rich


It isn't out of the realm of possibility. I'll wait to see what kind of hassle it is to cancel and the return of the box before I seriously consider it though.

Just doing the channels I want comparison, Entertainment would fit the bill quite well, only missing IFC which isn't any kind of deal killer IMO.

To be honest, YouTubeTV would fit the bill with only missing Paramount and that only because of one show. I'm just not convinced that the convenience of using a single app that can manually skip ads in recorded events is $15 handier than having a combo of services that let me have no ads for lots of it, and manual ad skipping where that isn't available. Speaking of Hulu & CBS:AA for no ads, while needing to manually skip in Sling.

BTW, VOD offerings are nice and all, but usually come with no skip ads. Is that true for DirecTV these days, and if so, would indicate that is probably also true for ATTTV.


----------



## espaeth

lparsons21 said:


> To bring things up to date. After trying YouTube TV, my Sling/Hulu/CBS:AA combo and reviewing quite a few other ways to skin the streaming cat, I've settled in with the Sling combo.


I've adopted some of this approach as well. The best part about the Hulu / CBS:AA combo is they come in commercial free variants. Not having to think about fast forwarding through commercials is crazy awesome, especially for times that I'm watching shows on the treadmill.

I will say that one of the negatives of commercial free services is you realize just how obnoxiously standard TV programming is edited to account for commercials.



lparsons21 said:


> An example is Paramount, AMC and BBCA. Paramount is missing from quite a few services. AMC & BBCA are available in many more. YTTV has AMC & BBCA but not Hallmark & Lifetime. Hulu+ has Hallmark & Lifetime but not AMC & BBCA.


I'm sure you've already looked at this, but for that subset of channels Philo carries AMC, BBCA, Lifetime, Hallmark (all 3 variants), and Paramount. Not bad for a $20/mo service that includes "unlimited" DVR with 30 days of retention.



lparsons21 said:


> To be honest, YouTubeTV would fit the bill with only missing Paramount and that only because of one show.


 Have you considered just buying a season pass to a show through iTunes? We had Philo for a few months to cover the networks that YTTV is missing, because we had watched them occasionally when we had DTV satellite. For as much as I like the value prospect of Philo, I found I was really only motivated to keep up with 2 shows on the History channel. Instead of paying $240/year on Philo, I just bought those seasons at $25ea though iTunes, and I can watch them the day after they air, just like most of the Hulu catalog content. The bonus is that the iTunes versions also have no commercials.

One of the biggest surprises for us with the AppleTV as our starting point when turning on the TV, we're finding a lot more stuff to watch on Netflix, HBO Go (incl w/ wireless plan), regular ol' Youtube, Prime Video, and Hulu. Funny how it works when we don't have to change remotes or change inputs, there's just less of a mental barrier to keep us from clicking over to those services now.


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## lparsons21

I considered Philo, but the value proposition just isn’t there as they really don’t have much more that a couple channels that I would be interested in. And it would make the difference between what I’m doing and a YTTV+Philo be a $35 difference instead of a $15 difference.

Note that the cost of Hulu, CBS:AA, Netflix and so on are not included in my math as I would have them regardless of what else I might do. Had them when I had cable and satellite.

If I had kept YTTV I would have bought Yellowstone season pass as it makes good sense. And YTTV isn’t out of the question even now. I might wake up tomorrow and decide to make a change. I’m flighty that way!


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## Rich

lparsons21 said:


> It isn't out of the realm of possibility. I'll wait to see what kind of hassle it is to cancel and the return of the box before I seriously consider it though.
> 
> Just doing the channels I want comparison, Entertainment would fit the bill quite well, only missing IFC which isn't any kind of deal killer IMO.
> 
> To be honest, YouTubeTV would fit the bill with only missing Paramount and that only because of one show. *I'm just not convinced that the convenience of using a single app that can manually skip ads in recorded events is $15 handier than having a combo of services that let me have no ads for lots of it, and manual ad skipping where that isn't available.* Speaking of Hulu & CBS:AA for no ads, while needing to manually skip in Sling.
> 
> BTW, VOD offerings are nice and all, but usually come with no skip ads. Is that true for DirecTV these days, and if so, would indicate that is probably also true for ATTTV.


I have no idea what On Demand is like on D* these days. Never used it much and haven't used it for years.

The Paramount show you are concerned about, is that the one with Kevin Costner?

The sentence I highlighted: Your concern is valid, you, me and everyone else would be better off with the combo of services, I think. That's where I am aside from sports. Just my opinion.

Rich


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## lparsons21

Rich said:


> I have no idea what On Demand is like on D* these days. Never used it much and haven't used it for years.
> 
> The Paramount show you are concerned about, is that the one with Kevin Costner?
> 
> The sentence I highlighted: Your concern is valid, you, me and everyone else would be better off with the combo of services, I think. That's where I am aside from sports. Just my opinion.
> 
> Rich


Thanks, hopefully someone will come around with VOD on DirecTV these days. I know on YTTV and Sling that the VOD pretty much all has non-skippable ads.

As to which way is best? Very subjective. I would think that younger folks that are used to bouncing from app to app with their phones and tablets all day would find that to work for them best.

For older folks, especially those not tech types, a single point of entry would be a better choice. Possibly as the first step to being more flexible with how they stream.

Frankly YouTubeTV has a lot going for it. Single point of entry, a guide that vaguely resembles the one we've all used for years, a wide range of channels for varying interests, a very decent DVR function though it does take getting used to, and all at a very fair price IMO.

Sling and Philo took a different path. Skinny bundle of channels though in Sling's case they have a few levels to subscribe, decent DVR functionality and at a lower price.

Note that I'm not commenting on Hulu+Live. I did try it a long time ago before they fixed a few things and didn't like it and since it is missing BBCA and AMC I wouldn't be interested anyway.


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## lparsons21

espaeth said:


> One of the biggest surprises for us with the AppleTV as our starting point when turning on the TV, we're finding a lot more stuff to watch on Netflix, HBO Go (incl w/ wireless plan), regular ol' Youtube, Prime Video, and Hulu. Funny how it works when we don't have to change remotes or change inputs, there's just less of a mental barrier to keep us from clicking over to those services now.


Yeah, when I first started doing this I had planned on Tivo for OTA since I can get all my locals that way, then the Sling combo for everything else. Ended up using the Tivo to watch the nightly local news and not much else. Just turn on AppleTV and use the apps. Hulu covers 3 of the broadcast and some other channels, CBS:AA does CBS. Netflix and Amazon are used for originals mostly and some ad-supported services for some stuff not covered elsewhere.

One thing that people new to streaming, or considering it, is how the cloud DVR works. ALL of them have expiration times that vary from 1-9 months depending on service. So doing archives of shows/movies we did on local hardware based DVRs just doesn't work.


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## Rich

lparsons21 said:


> As to which way is best? Very subjective. I would think that younger folks that are used to bouncing from app to app with their phones and tablets all day would find that to work for them best.
> 
> For older folks, especially those not tech types, a single point of entry would be a better choice. Possibly as the first step to being more flexible with how they stream.


We've been bouncing from one app to another for years. We've become used to doing it that way. I don't like the single point of entry thing. I've tried it and it just annoys me.

I asked Sadie if anyone talks about TV programs at school and she said nobody watches TV anymore and nobody talks about it. Of course that's in her circle of 11-12 year old kids. They're all on YT...learning. Gonna be a smart generation.

Rich


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## Rich

lparsons21 said:


> Yeah, when I first started doing this *I had planned* on Tivo for OTA since I can get all my locals that way, then the Sling combo for everything else. Ended up using the Tivo to watch the nightly local news and not much else. Just turn on AppleTV and use the apps. Hulu covers 3 of the broadcast and some other channels, CBS:AA does CBS. Netflix and Amazon are used for originals mostly and some ad-supported services for some stuff not covered elsewhere.
> 
> One thing that people new to streaming, or considering it, is how the cloud DVR works. ALL of them have expiration times that vary from 1-9 months depending on service. So doing archives of shows/movies we did on local hardware based DVRs just doesn't work.


I have to admit I envy that. You had a plan. I just stumbled upon streaming. I had no idea what I was doing.

Rich


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## lparsons21

Rich said:


> I have to admit I envy that. You had a plan. I just stumbled upon streaming. I had no idea what I was doing.
> 
> Rich


Well as it turns out, it wasn't much of a plan! . I've started and stopped Sling and YouTubeTV so many times I've lost count. Even now both services are live with me.

Here's the deal. The costs are close enough between the two that it is almost not worth thinking about. Essentially $15/month in Slings favor. But YTTV and cancel CBS:AA is nearly the same. One of these days I'll settle down.


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## Andrew Sullivan

So much dismissal of sports programming.


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## lparsons21

Andrew Sullivan said:


> So much dismissal of sports programming.


While I'm not a big sports fan, I do watch some. And while there are holes in sports with streaming, it isn't horrible. YTTV, Hulu+ and others have sports programming, including at least some RSNs.

IMO, right now for a big sports fan, streaming isn't there yet. I fully expect it to be at some point.


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## Andrew Sullivan

I just cancelled Sling because the PQ on ESPN was so terrible. I have tried YTTV and in general it offers the best programming if you want several sports options included in a package. Especially since they reached an agreement to allow most of the RSNs. They include your locals and most of the most watched cable channels. Some of the cable companies are trying to be more competitive by bundling a decent TV package with a decent internet package for around $80 plus taxes. That's a good proactive move on their part but they for the most part still require a 2 year contract and then throw in equipment rental costs.


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## Rich

Andrew Sullivan said:


> So much dismissal of sports programming.


Not on my part, but I get tired of saying all D* has that interests me is sports. I'm sure everyone else is tired of it, too. But I get your point, would be nice to know how each service deals with sports of all sorts.

Rich


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## Rich

lparsons21 said:


> While I'm not a big sports fan, I do watch some. And while there are holes in sports with streaming, it isn't horrible. YTTV, Hulu+ and others have sports programming, including at least some RSNs.
> 
> IMO, right now for a big sports fan, streaming isn't there yet. I fully expect it to be at some point.


Yeah, I'm sure MLB and the NFL are aware of what's going on. They'll make adjustments, just have to be patient.

Rich


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## lparsons21

Rich said:


> Not on my part, but I get tired of saying all D* has that interests me is sports. I'm sure everyone else is tired of it, too. But I get your point, would be nice to know how each service deals with sports of all sorts.
> 
> Rich


The RSNs are the real issue for sports. National sports channels are on quite a few streamers, so finding them isn't a real issue.

Today it seems that ATTTV, YouTubeTV and Hulu+Live have RSNs, and in YTTV's case, not all of them.


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## espaeth

lparsons21 said:


> Yeah, when I first started doing this I had planned on Tivo for OTA since I can get all my locals that way, then the Sling combo for everything else.


It's funny how things change. I also started off with the Tivo for OTA (with the great 1 button commercial skip feature!), then we got sick of changing remotes for that so I setup a HDHomerun 4-tuner box and the Channels DVR running on my NAS server. After getting that all setup, Youtube lifted their forced VOD swaps and we ended up signing up for Hulu (no ads) and CBS:AA... now we haven't launched Channels in months.

For efficiency it really feels like I should be taking advantage of getting content OTA, but YTTV's DVR does a better job of adjusting for game overruns that cause the news to run late, and all the shows we watch on Hulu and CBS:AA are free from the commericals and scrollers for school closings, weather, etc that plague our regular broadcasts.


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## lparsons21

Andrew Sullivan said:


> I just cancelled Sling because the PQ on ESPN was so terrible. I have tried YTTV and in general it offers the best programming if you want several sports options included in a package. Especially since they reached an agreement to allow most of the RSNs. They include your locals and most of the most watched cable channels. Some of the cable companies are trying to be more competitive by bundling a decent TV package with a decent internet package for around $80 plus taxes. That's a good proactive move on their part but they for the most part still require a 2 year contract and then throw in equipment rental costs.


Yeah, YTTV is a very good cable/sat replacement service. Wide range of channels to cover most interests, a DVR service that's a little messy but works well, all at a decent price. Hulu+Live is similar in some respects but is a little pricey if you do no ads and get their enhanced DVR. Neither approaches the outrageous pricing ATT has on their latest offering.


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## Andrew Sullivan

Sometimes we take the status quo for granted. Kids in high school today aren't familiar with life before Sling and YTTV. Our parents weren't familiar with life before Satelite TV. I remember when cable offered one HBO channel and there was no Showtime etc. Today we are discussing the best streaming service. What will tomorrow bring? Stay tuned.


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## lparsons21

Absolutely. I remember my grandfather having the first TV in his neighborhood. Great big piece of furniture with I think a 7” screen, all in glorious black & white. We had a choice then of 2 local stations mostly playing the test pattern.

And cable’s early days had no ‘premium’ channels. Just a better way to get the locals.


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## James Long

Andrew Sullivan said:


> Today we are discussing the best streaming service. What will tomorrow bring? Stay tuned.


The best implant service. Download the show directly to your memory.


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## Andrew Sullivan

James Long said:


> The best implant service. Download the show directly to your memory.


As long as it's 4K with On Demand available. Maybe throw in 3D too.


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## wmb

Andrew Sullivan said:


> As long as it's 4K with On Demand available. Maybe throw in 3D too.


Resolution? Where we're going, we don't need resolution.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## lparsons21

Well, time to shift services. I was locked in with Sling Blue/Hulu/CBS as it had what I thought I wanted. But then I decided I wanted the Hollywood and Sports pack and the math changed:

Sling Blue = $30
Enhanced DVR = $5
Hollywood = $5
Sports = $10
Hulu no ads = $12
CBS no ads = $10

Total : $72

YouTubeTV = $50
Hulu no ads = $12
Cancel CBS = $0. Was mostly keeping for Picard, now its over or will be by the time my month is out.

Total = $62

So switched to YTTV. Picked up local channels, ESPN and others. Lost Paramount, but that only has one show I want. I’ll get that via season pass when the new season starts.


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## billsharpe

I remember when there was only one OTA station in Philadelphia and it was on weeknights and weekend afternoons and evenings. That was 1948. No need for a remote to change stations!


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## trh

the2130 said:


> I was able turn off that feature, which is an improvement. However, when I pull up an episode of a show, it still starts playing in a window before I press the button to start it, which is very annoying. Why would anyone want the video to start before they are ready to watch, and why would anyone design a program to work that way?


Go to their web site, under your account, change playback settings. You have to do this for each profile.


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## the2130

trh said:


> Go to their web site, under your account, change playback settings. You have to do this for each profile.
> View attachment 30447


Those boxes are both unchecked for my profile. It has no effect on the issue. It prevents previews from playing while you are browsing for something to watch, but an episode of a show will still start to play when you pull up the episode in your list. Very annoying.


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