# HARDWARE PROBLEM: Help With New 921!!!



## JerryLA (Dec 29, 2003)

Well it looks like I can now join the rest of you with 921 problems. Just installed my 921 this afternoon and it went without a hitch, or so I thought. Seems everything went well until I changed channels. Whenever I switch from one channel to another there is a gray bar that appears in the middle of the screen and the picture begins to roll, then it stops , then it rolls. I called Dish, they had me hold in the power button for 8 seconds then let it restart. This took care of the problem until I switched channels again. I just called tech support again and they told me I need to remove my component cables and try using an S video cable. If I still have the same problem, then it is most likely the unit. Why am I not surprised. Anyone have this problem?


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

Well, S-Video ain't gonna give you HD, that's for sure, so it's not a solution. Also, switching to SD is NOT going to tell you if it's your TV or not because it might be the HD portion of your TV (basic logic).

Do you have anything else like a progressive scan component-output DVD player you can sue to try to exercise that part of the TV? No, it's not HD, but it will use a lot of the same circuitry.

Also try playing around with the resolution settings in Menu-6-9 and see if you can make anything different happen.


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## kmcnamara (Jan 30, 2004)

Also, have you have tried some other HD unit/receiver with this TV? I recall a few months ago someone having trouble with their 921 syncing to their TV. I think the person ended up returning their 921 because that was cheaper than buying a new TV. When my 921 boots, my projector sometimes has a bit of difficulty syncing but usually syncs after 5 seconds or so. Do you know someone else with Dish and an HDTV that you could try? This is probably going to be one of those 'process of elimination' problems.

--Kelly


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## JerryLA (Dec 29, 2003)

After playing with the unit for a couple of hours this is what I have found:
When in HD mode all is well. I can scroll channels and no problem. When I view SD channels in HD mode, no problem. When I switch to SD mode and change channels I get the gray 2inch bar down the middle of the screen and the picture rolls. If I use the format button on the remote and switch formats the problem is corrected until I change channels again. I have spoken to Dish 4 times this evening and they are sending me another unit. I did the test they requested, switching to a S Video cable for my SD mode with the same rolling results. I have done a cold boot twice leaving the unit unplugged for about 3 minutes and it does not seem to help. The first tech told me they had to submit this report to Denver and within 72 hours someone would contact me to send a replacement unit. I called back about an hour ago to give them the results of the test and they said they would just send a replacement. Needless to say my 6000 did not have this problem. I've set one timer and it fired without flaw. Hopefully this problem is a fluke. I have not seen any other reports of this problem on this board. Right now the unit is running and I'm not experiencing this problem. I'll keep you updated on the issue.
Thanks for the replies.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Sounds like a hardware problem to me, Jerry. Sorry to hear it.


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## BarryO (Dec 16, 2003)

I agree with Kelly that this may be a sync issue.

With the second 921 I received, the one with the hardware redesign to fix the "blue-line" problem, I've seen some issues with sync. Like most TV's, I have the HD component input set up in Auto Sync mode, so that it will automatically detect the scan rate of the input signal, and adjust to it (I have only one HD input; the 921 and a progressive-scan DVD player both go to it through a switcher, so the TV needs to switch from 1080i to 480p automatically).

It seems (but I'm not entirely sure) that the 921 puts out a lower black level than the 6000 does, or than the 921 did before the redesign. On some material that has black bars in the video (the Tour de France previews on OLN being notable), my TV will lose sync momentarily.

I haven't had a chance to borrow an oscilloscope and take a close look at the output levels, but I suspect the lower black level from the 921 may be causing some issues with some Autosync mode inputs on some TVs. That may be the problem here.


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## Bogney (Jul 11, 2003)

BarryO said:


> It seems (but I'm not entirely sure) that the 921 puts out a lower black level than the 6000 does, or than the 921 did before the redesign.


My understanding is that the 6000 outputs an out of spec signal that makes it too bright compared with other sources.


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## Kagato (Jul 1, 2002)

The 6000 was bright, but I never had any sync issues. It was also a very strong signal. The 921 has a fairly weak component output. I get signal break ups with certain component switchers. It was very easy to get a rolling signal on the 921, even through a single component video switch.


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

Is your "picture roll" anything like a "jitter"? Is the gray bar horizontal, narrow and with lines in it? I have a similar problem with my 60" RPTV, but only when the picture content is very bright. Philips shipped me a replacement, but I haven't had a chance to install it - it takes 4 people and removal of a door.


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## JerryLA (Dec 29, 2003)

Actually the roll now is more of a jitter with a double or triple image vertically. The gray bar down the center is vertically also, about 2 inches wide. I've now found that by pressing the info button or guide button seems to lock in the picture and stop the distortion. When I first got the unit the picture actually rolled, now that has stopped and it definitely is more of a jitter.


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## JerryLA (Dec 29, 2003)

If I understand you guys correctly, I may still have the same issue with the new unit Dish is sending?? I will check my TV settings and let you know what I find through experimenting.


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

That's what's hard about all this stuff - with only one 'sending' and one 'receiving' unit for a given set (1080i for example), you can't tell where the trouble is.


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## BarryO (Dec 16, 2003)

Yup, it might be some compatibility issue between the TV and the 921. Try experimenting with the TV settings.


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## sjm992 (Jan 14, 2004)

I have a similar problem. I get the vertical gray bar and noise when I switch from HD output to SD output while watching an SD program. It doesn't happen when I change channels. My current workaround is to leave the 921 permanently on the HD output and live with the slightly reduced pic quality and crazystretch.


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## Kagato (Jul 1, 2002)

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=26394

That thread has a sample of glitches I was seeing. At some points you'd get "rolling" as the sync was lost. When this was taken I was running the 921 through a Audio Authority 4 port component switch that cascased into an Onkyo receiver. While this set up had work for years with the JVC 30K HD DVHS, and Dish 6000, the 921 has no such luck.

I was told by advanced support that this is a "known" issue they are working on with a software fix.

My solution was to replace the Onkyo with the Yamaha Z9. Which has a 6 Component Inputs, and 2 outputs (Applified). I haven't had a problem since. I would contend that the signal is underpowered, and needs to be tweaked. I honestly don't know why dish is having so many video problems. I'm not aware of any other consumer electronics maker having these kinds of problems. At least not on 2nd, 3rd and 4th generation hardware.


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## BarryO (Dec 16, 2003)

The "glitch" is a momentary loss of horizontal sync. "rolling" is due to loss of vertical sync.

All of these problems will tend to be more of a problem when you go through an auto-sensing switcher such as the AA. It appears that the sync level and/or the black level of the 921 is "different" from other devices. It's hard to say if this is wrong or not; it could even be the case that the 921 is correctly following the spec., but other devices are wrong: I remembering reading somewhere that the black level for HD componenet was supposed to be different than that of SD component, but alot of equipment wasn't doing that.


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## JerryLA (Dec 29, 2003)

Well.......
I received my replacement 921 today and have the same problem. I was on the phone with tech support for over and hour and this is the result. "Leave the receiver in HD mode for all content". The tech told me that my HD/SD lights on the front of the 921 should change automatically when I switch from an HD channel to a SD channel. That is not happening. On my 6000 I had to switch manually so this is a new feature to me. Is that correct information? I have read and reread my TV manual and see no settings that could be wrong. Here is my current setup:
921 to video 1 by component cable
Digital Audio cable out of 921 to Denon Audio Receiver
Video Out 1 of 921 to Video in of TV by RCA Cable/ or S Video Cable to Video1 of TV "without this connection I have no picture unless in HD mode on 921"
During the converstaion with Dish Tech, he had me unplug the Digital Audio cable going to my Audio receiver and cold boot the 921. When it rebooted I had no picture at all in HD mode only in SD.
I reconnected the Digital Audio cable re-booted and that is where I am now with everything working, only in HD mode. When I manually switch the toggle HD/SD to SD the picture rolls and is distorted. He also had me change the remote address from "1" to "5". I have now lost all the functions of my MX500. 
This is all very confusing to me, and apparently to Dish also.
Any feedback is certainly appreciated!!!


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## comet48 (Dec 18, 2003)

JerryLA said:


> Well it looks like I can now join the rest of you with 921 problems. Just installed my 921 this afternoon and it went without a hitch, or so I thought. Seems everything went well until I changed channels. Whenever I switch from one channel to another there is a gray bar that appears in the middle of the screen and the picture begins to roll, then it stops , then it rolls. I called Dish, they had me hold in the power button for 8 seconds then let it restart. This took care of the problem until I switched channels again. I just called tech support again and they told me I need to remove my component cables and try using an S video cable. If I still have the same problem, then it is most likely the unit. Why am I not surprised. Anyone have this problem?


Bit unreasonable expecting to change chanels isn't it.


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## David_Levin (Apr 22, 2002)

Jerry,

The HD/SD light DOES NOT change as you change channels. It's an indication of what 921 output is active, not what you're watching.

In your 2nd message, it sounded like you were trying to switch to SD mode while using the component outputs - this will NOT work. When in SD mode, only the S-Video and composite outputs are active. You'll need to choose the corresponding input on the TV.

Did you try SD mode with S-Video or Composite AND the component disconnected? Perhaps there's some cross noise or interference.

You should try the SD mode (with S-Video or Composite) on another TV and see if it has the same problem.

No idea why they had you change the remote address - change it back.


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## JerryLA (Dec 29, 2003)

David,
I did change my remote address back to 1 and my MX500 is functional again. I have not tried viewing with an S Video cable and the component unplugged. I think I have come to terms with living with things the way they are working now until I get this figured outl. I now have only component cable running from the 921 to the tv. All functions seem to work fine, I have my HD and all SD looks just about the same to my eyes as it did when I had SD from my 6000. In spite of the problems from the last few days, I'm very pleased with the unit. I am amazed at the picture quality from recordings in HD and even SD. The last time I had any recording capabilities was with and old VCR so this is top notch to me. Pausing live tv and recording was my main interest in this unit and it seems to be working fine.... right now anyway. Thanks for all the replies and any future thoughts or ideas will be tested and appreciated.


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## daoust501 (Jul 6, 2004)

JerryLA said:


> David,
> Pausing live tv and recording was my main interest in this unit and it seems to be working fine.... right now anyway. Thanks for all the replies and any future thoughts or ideas will be tested and appreciated.


I have this same problem. In addition, if you are watching a recorded event and the 921 is in SD mode, if you try to skip forward/back, you will get the screwed up picture. It works fine in HD mode, but then you can't get CC.


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## JerryLA (Dec 29, 2003)

Welcome to DBS. I think you will find a wealth of information on these pages and just about every problem you can imagine, and hopefully fixes. I've had my 921 a little over 2 weeks now and all is well. Have not had one timer failure. I'm living with the fact that for whatever reason SD is not working properly with my unit or my configuration. To tell ya the truth, I'm pleased with my picture on SD while in HD mode. The 921 is doing everything I need it to do.. and then some.


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## Slordak (Dec 17, 2003)

Sounds like the CSRs need a briefing on how the 921 really works with regards to the admittedly confusing "SD/HD" toggle. The name is the real problem here, since this "mode" doesn't really have anything to do with SD/HD; it only controls which set of outputs are active. Hence, it should probably have been known as "Output Selection" from the beginning.


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## rbyers (Jan 15, 2004)

sjm992 said:


> I have a similar problem. I get the vertical gray bar and noise when I switch from HD output to SD output while watching an SD program. It doesn't happen when I change channels. My current workaround is to leave the 921 permanently on the HD output and live with the slightly reduced pic quality and crazystretch.


Why would you get reduced picture quality when viewing SD on the HD output? I haven't noticed that. I'm viewing the both HD and SD channels using component output. Am I missing something?


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

rbyers said:


> Why would you get reduced picture quality when viewing SD on the HD output? I haven't noticed that. I'm viewing the both HD and SD channels using component output. Am I missing something?


Some TV's seem to have some trouble with the 921's HD upconversion of SD content. And sometimes the stretch (or non-stretch) is wrong.

Me, I'm doing just fine with it on my 60" Philips RPTV - except it would be nice if they would take the 15 seconds to tweak the stretch table a bit - they've already got the necessary data to get it at least better than it currently is.


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