# Loss Of OTA Channel Lost With Max Signal Displayed



## hortonjr (Oct 28, 2005)

Hi!

I see that this is posted as a poll in the bug reports section and I have responded there, but I am posting here in hopes of getting insights from others who have experienced this. I own two 921's and have had this occur on each box now. When it has happened on one box I have been able to tune the channel on the other box (both using the same OTA antenna), so the signal is there. I have eventually gotten the channel back on both boxes, but I'm not sure in either case if I actually "fixed" the problem or if the channel just returned on its own (in both instances it required multiple iterations of delete digital channels, save, rescan, reboot). In my case, the channel that was lost was 04-001. In any case, any feedback would be appreciated, and if this post isn't appropriate please let me know. Thanks.

Bob


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

This sounds like the broadcaster changing their PSIP data. It happened to me several times. The fix you posted is the correct method. Unfortunately there is nothing E* can do to avoid this happening. It's an issue with your local station.

The AVS forums have a section with local DMA forums. Find your DMA from the "United States thread index": http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=45

Sometimes the engineers from the local stations will post in there warnings about impending PSIP changes, down time, SD only broadcasts etc..


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

I've experienced this also. This is just a theory because I have not had both 921's on the same channel when the video goes black. I think that the broadcast station has a bump in the PSIP. If the station is in use on the 921, it causes the mapping to screw-up, in my case, to the point that the DTV channel has to be deleted and re-added. I to have tuned to same channel on the other reciver to find that it works fine. This happened on 30-01 FOXHD OTA channel. If it is not the PSIP bump then it must be something happening within the 921. Like you, I'm looking forward to hearing what others have to say


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

When it happened to me I was not watching the channel at all. It was there one day and gone the next (with a 120 signal and a blank screen). I only have one 921 so I didn't have another to compair. 

In one case when I deleted and reentered the channel the guide would not remap to it's analog channel number (043-01) I had to watch "Rf 28" for a few days.


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## hortonjr (Oct 28, 2005)

Thanks for the feedback everyone and for the link Michael.

Bob


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## dwcobb (Oct 13, 2005)

When this happens to me (and it does pretty often, I lose all my OTA's simultaneously, and they all show normal signal reception. 

I really don't think it is a broadcaster side problem or it would only happen on one of the networks. 

Now I HAVE lost a single network before, but that is the exception not the rule.

My bet is it is a 921 problem. I have to rescan the OTA's when it happens, though sometimes that doesn't work right away either.


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

dwcobb said:


> When this happens to me (and it does pretty often, I lose all my OTA's simultaneously, and they all show normal signal reception.
> 
> I really don't think it is a broadcaster side problem or it would only happen on one of the networks.
> 
> ...


The only time I lost all my OTA's at one time was when my hard drive crashed and the "auto repair" mode restored functionality to the 921. The only thing saved from before the crash were the DVR recordings, everything else reverted to factory default settings.

If your 921 did not go through the auto repair function, then losing all the OTA's is a new bug I've not experienced before. If this was still s/w 216 there was a similar bug where all stations caried in Dish LIL's disappearred in the OTA area if you did not sub to the LIL's, hoowever there were still some OTA's left in the OTA list that were not in the LIL's (PBS, subchannels, channels not carried in the LIL's).

One other thing - it could be a reception problem. I'm having a problem with the one OTA that is the closest to me, .8 of a mile from the transmitter (if I were any closer, if that tower would fall it might hit me :eek2: ). This just started after months of problem free reception, so it's not a case of being "under" the signal. In the AVS forum someone else is having a problem with this station as well.


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## rice0209 (Oct 11, 2005)

I do not believe this problem has to do with the stations themselves. I live 30 miles from the KC area. I have a very large antenna with a 60 mile UHF reception range pointing directly towards the proper direction. I almost never have channel 38 although it randomly pops on. I would say 90 percent of the time, the channel is gone even though i am pointing directly at their antenna to a degree and my antenna is firmly fastened and does not move. Not only do I also have audio drops and picture drops in OTA stations that a lot of people on here talk about, I completely lose the signal and the receiver has to re-acquire the singal. 

Watching the two episodes of the apprentice from thursday, I probably experienced 7 occurences of completely losing the signal during each show. It has become beyond annoying and did not happen nearly as much as before 272 came along. It very rarely lost the signal before 272. Although, the problem with channel 38 blanking most of the time was there before. I could stand that since i did not watch this channel much, but now that NBC is having so many problems, I am going to have to call Dish.

One more thing to note, since my antenna is oversized if anything, and has a wonderful pre-amp, the singal is either maxed at 120, or occasionally drops to 116 at the least. It is during these high reception times that the singal freaks out so I have to believe that the problem is in the receiver.


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## rice0209 (Oct 11, 2005)

UPDATE:

I called dish about this problem. Lucky me, i get the guy who HAS TO BE RIGHT and WANTS TO ARGUE EVERYTHING.

I told him about my first call i made to dish about the problem with the channels dropping. The previous advanced tech told me to call a local dealer and see if they can test the antenna tuner. When i called the local dealer, they told me that they don't understand why dish referred me to them. Since I am under warranty and dish had not contacted them about servicing my equipment, they run the risk of not getting paid for their services. I understood this completely and was also upset that dish had pushed me off rather than taking care of this themselves.

The tech then proceeded to tell me to contact the broadcasters to "see if they were doing maintenance or other services to their equipment and were not broadcasting at these times."

I told him about how frequent the problem was, sometimes 8 or 9 times during an hour episode and how rediculous it would be to provide a service that was only broadcasting half of the time and performing maintenance every 15 minutes or so. If i was having this problem once a week, i would understand, but this problem constantly interrupts every program i watch.

I then told him how random it is when signals that the previous time i viewed them were receiving a maxxed signal, were now completely gone and could not find themselves. He made up some other excuse and told me that he has no reports of any problem like this and it had to be my antenna. He then told me that i had to pay for the service call to send a technician out. Then, like they always do, they trick you into buying their service gaurantee so that you get the service call for half price. I did it because i will cancel the contract once this problem is taken care of. This way we both win.

The technician comes out monday to check things out and we shall see what they say. I have checked my antenna situation a million times. It's such a simple setup, i just don't see how i could have missed anything. Especially since the problem seem to be more like software bugs than actaul, physical problems. It just baffles me because i receive such crystal clear and strong reception, and the thing will just freak out with audio pops/pixelation, and complete singal loss for minutes and sometimes hours.


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

rice0209, To me it doesn't seem like the transmitter or PSIP are the cause of your problems. I currently did some reconfiguring of my antenna and began to experience the strong to nothing signal on one of my more distant channels that usually read 95-100. It would suddenly drop to zero then back to the strong signal kind of rapidly. What I found is that I had used a 75 OHM splitter to combine two UHF antenna's that aimed in different directions (more than 120 degrees). The splitter was the problem. I then used a 300 OHM cable from one to the other and removed the splitter. The signal was just as strong and no more losses.

When I first installed a terrestrial antenna a couple of years ago, one digital channel was broadcasting at full power. I was only 17 miles away from the transmitter. The antenna had a pre-amp on it. The signal meter was maxed. All that I would get was a black screen with no video. What I discovered is that the pre-amp over drove the signal to the point the it didn't work. I used an attenuator which brought the signal down and returned the audio and video to the affected channel but this eliminated my distant digital channels. I removed the pre-amp and inserted a cheap amplifier not far from the 921. this solved my problem. 

I don't know if any of this really applies to your circumstances, but checking and experimenting with the antenna, its connectors, and cables, amplifiers, etc. can prove beneficial.


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## rice0209 (Oct 11, 2005)

here is how my antenna is set up.

I have the antenna on the roof, with a pretty clear shot straight towards the antennas. The channels that i want to receive, and have aimed my antenna at, are about 30 - 45 miles away. I can receive up to 60 miles away for UHF which is what these channels are.

I have a pre amp on the roof, half way down the 5 foot mast. The cable, which is an RG6 cable, runs probably around 20 to 30 ft. At that point, inside my house, i have the powered adapter, and then another 5 feet of cable to the receiver's tuner itself.

All cables are RG6 but i could not find an ohms rating on them. The best i could find is that it said 75C which i just always assumed had something to do with degrees celsius for the transfer of electrical energy into heat or something. My satellite cables that the dish installer used also say 75C i believe. 

I do not have any splitters or anything other than the pre amp and its powered supply.

As I said, i get great signal strength when the channels are coming in, but one channel always seems to not be available. So far, the only two channels i have lost are 38 and 41. As far as I know, no other channels have vanished like these two have done. They are never gone at the same time. If one is there, the other is not. Right now, 41 is gone and has been for about 4 days. Before that, 38 was gone for almost a month only showing up for a couple days.

The dish isntaller will be out tomorrow, i guess i will see what he thinks. The receiver needs to be replaced regardless of the antenna problems since it has been locking up like crazy.


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

rice0209, That is super good information. Only thing I can now think of are a few things.

1. Bypass the pre-amp and its power supply and check your signals without.
2. If #1 doesn't help, check and ensure that you don't have any open cable outlets that may be driven by cable service or other source that is generating and opposing frequency that would block the channel your trying to watch. 
3. If this isn't the case or doesn't help, see if you can use an alternate digital receiver to determine if the problem exists with it. If not, then it is your receiver.

Good luck.


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## rice0209 (Oct 11, 2005)

UPDATE:

Dish technician/installer came out to look at receiver and antenna. He determined that there was no problem with the antenna due to the steadiness of the incoming signal. He stated that if the overall singal coming from the antenna had been jumping around, he would have had to look into the antenna more, but he said it was pretty rock solid so it was either a problem with the broadcasters or the receiver.

I called dish network and got a hold of this guy in their advanced tech support department. I told him about the technician and what he said, and as soon as I mentioned OTA channels in what was going on, he immediately told me he could not help me and wasn't responsible for this problem. He then said it was the antenna or the broadcasters and that dish was not responsible for lost reception. I kept trying to talk but he kept interuptting me and saying he wouldn't help. I was getting very frustrated because he wouldn't let me talk, and then he started getting sarcastic and mean with his comments. He finally aggravated me enough to where i started raising my voice.

I kept telling him that the technician came out and said that the signal was there and being received but that the receiver was not displaying certain channels. He still kept saying that he is not responsible for ota signals being displayed. I told him you are if its a faulty tuner or software bug and he said that wasn't true. He tried to tell me that all the channels would be gone if it was the tuner. The guy was just an outright jerk and i finally knew i wasn't getting anywhere and thanked him for his time and hung up the phone.

I have worked in retail for over 8 years now and understand that when someone has a problem, even if it isn't necessarily your area, you listen until they have at least explained the problem and then you work on a solution. He would not even listen. I am 10 seconds away from cancelling my dish network service. I have had nothing but trouble with these techs. Only two have ever been friendly and courteous. The rest seem to want to get to their 15 minute break every time i call them.


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

That is pretty bad behavior on the CSR's part. Too bad. Have you tried deleting all of your digital OTA's the doing a power cord reboot then re-adding them?


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## rice0209 (Oct 11, 2005)

Boyle,

Thanks for the e-mail. Yes I have tried that. The technician got channel 41 to show up today, but four hours later i tried it again and it was gone. Same problem. 

I called dish back shortly after i posted and this time used the prompts to talk to someone in billing. From what the person said, billing employees are also support technicians. I told him what had happened and he was instantly courteous saying that he was ready to help me, be patient, and get a solution. Mind you i was being ever polite because i also work in retail and know that is the best way to get things done. Be firm and be polite.

Anyway, he ended up having to transfer me to advanced tech, but assured me I would not get the same guy. I ended up talking to Donna and she was awesome. After 5 minutes, she decided to send out another unit. I told her that it was rediculous for the last guy to tell me that they don't even touch questions on OTA problems when the guy before me had me pay for a service call to determine if the antenna was the culprit. That would just be shady business practices if it was the case. 

The best part, was that she admitted point blank that the 921's were very touchy and have gone through a lot. I was astounded. She kept talking about how good the 942 was compared to the 921. She even got me with a supervisor to see if we could trade up or pay to upgrade. Of course he said no, and he sounded as if he was having a terrible day. I didn't push it because i have not read of anyone on this board having any success in getting that to work. I was still amazed that she admitted the unit was notorious for problems instead of feeding me the same old lines like "we have never had that problem" or "there are no problems I know of."

We shall see when this new unit arrives if the problem is still here or if it was the old 921 receiver.

Thanks again Boyle.


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## Tarpon65 (Sep 8, 2002)

Had all my OTA channels go on the blink this morning. One minute I surfing the next I could not get a picture on any of the OTA even with my stregnth bar showing between 120-125. Did several reboots but could not get anything to work until I unplugged the power for several minutes and let the 921 reboot. Then everything was good in the world, except the Bucs are down 21-0.:nono2:


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## rice0209 (Oct 11, 2005)

One thing that really bugs me is on my current receiver and the one that dish just replaced for me a week ago, I have this same problem. It happens sometimes when you switch from one OTA to another or sometimes when you switch from a dish channel to an OTA. You get a lot of pink lines on the screen or no picture at all. I have found that just quickly powering down and powering back up usually fixes it. Nothing huge but very annoying.


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