# Is the Power Inserter Required?



## sNEIRBO (Jul 23, 2006)

This morning I wake up to find that my ViP622 is not functioning. I got a message saying a CHECK SWITCH TEST needed to be done. I do the CST - it runs through the 38 step process on Input 1, we all know how that ends up. I quickly check my 522 in the basement - everything is fine. I run a CST on that - works perfectly.

So I pull the diplexer out of the system behind the ViP622. Connect the incoming to Input 1, run the CST again. This time it it pulls up 3 of the 4 SATs, it's missing 118. I switch to input 2 - it pulls 3 out of 4, this time it's missing 129. I swap diplexers between the basement and the ViP622 - get 119 on Input 1, nothing on Input 2 on the ViP622, I get all 4 SATs on both inputs on the 522.

I decide to swap the incoming lines from the Dish. I pull the power inserter from behind the 522, swap the wires at the ground block. The 522 fires right back up. I do a CST, get 4 out of 4 SATs, no problems. I go upstairs and run a CST on the ViP622 - I now get 4 out of 4 SATs. I then realize that the power inserter is sitting on the bar in the basement. Both systems seem to be working correctly now though. 

Is the power inserter really needed to run the system?


----------



## Ken Green (Oct 6, 2005)

Mine is connected, and powered on. What I do know is, if I power-off the inserter, all my receivers lose all SAT signals. Once I power it back on, all the receivers work again, without a check-switch being run.

I've read of others using the DPP44 without the inserter.

The installer told me, the power to the DPP44 is necessary to enable the switch to, do whatever it does, to be able to receive the FSS/DBS dual bands off the one LNB for 118 & 119. I have no idea if that's correct or not, just what he told me, and I know my system will not work without power to the inserter.

Of the 10, or so subs I know in STL (we use the 1000+ and 118 for locals, same as DET) all of them have the inserter in-line and powered up.


----------



## lakebum431 (Jun 30, 2005)

It really depends what receivers you are running with it. If all are newer receivers you can probably get away without it, but you may put a strain on the box as the LNBFs will be powered fully by the receivers. Although it may "work" it really isn't recommended.


----------



## Rob Glasser (Feb 22, 2005)

According to the installation instructions the power inserter is required, however some members have the DPP44 working without it. Personally I would keep it connected if at all possible just to minimize any potential problems.


----------



## sNEIRBO (Jul 23, 2006)

I've had both receivers running without the power inserter since yesterday morning. All timers have fired correctly, everything is working perfectly on both receivers. I've been having problems for the past 6 weeks or so with tearing and pixelization of my HD recordings on the ViP622 - not just HD locals via Sat, I've had problems with HBO-HD, Discovery HD as well as the HD locals. Last night the 622 recorded ROME - no tearing, no pixelization. I've got a timer set to record 24 tonight, that's the show I've had the most problems with, we'll see what happens there.


----------



## jmel (Jan 19, 2007)

Hrm... I dont think mine (new install) has a power inserter...

messenger cable comes from dish on roof, grounded to rod (with grounding block that grounds both coax and dish), cable comes into a splitter, that sends vhf/uhf to tv2 and sat down to vip 622. fromt there, there is some sort of splitter that goes to tuner 1 and tuner 2, and another that stacks the uhf/vhf from tv2 out to the main line that comes in.

I dont see anything power related..



all my signals are above 85 (usually 105-95) and everything has recorded fine, with no drops in signal quality ever (pixelization or anything).


----------



## sNEIRBO (Jul 23, 2006)

jmel -

The power inserter is for the 4 LNB (110, 118, 119, 129) DPP44 switch. If you have a 3 LNB setup you wouldn't have a power inserter. As of right now there are only 2 markets using the 4 LNB switches - Detroit and St Louis.


----------



## TulsaOK (Feb 24, 2004)

sNEIRBO said:


> jmel -
> 
> The power inserter is for the 4 LNB (110, 118, 119, 129) DPP44 switch. If you have a 3 LNB setup you wouldn't have a power inserter. As of right now there are only 2 markets using the 4 LNB switches - Detroit and St Louis.


I have a Dish 1000 picking up three satellites and it uses a DPP44 switch with a power inserter.


----------



## INHUMANITY (Aug 8, 2005)

sNEIRBO said:


> jmel -
> 
> The power inserter is for the 4 LNB (110, 118, 119, 129) DPP44 switch. If you have a 3 LNB setup you wouldn't have a power inserter. As of right now there are only 2 markets using the 4 LNB switches - Detroit and St Louis.


Just thought I'd let you know that I'm in the San Francisco Bay Area and am using the power inserter.

I receive 110, 118, 119, and 129. With the inserter unplugged I loose my signal.


----------



## sNEIRBO (Jul 23, 2006)

Two + days without the power inserter and both of my receivers have been working flawlessly - possibly more stable than they ever have.

Here's my thought / question - is it possible the 522 receiver in the basement is supplying the power to the switch? My 522 receiver is less than a 15 foot cable run from the switch. My ViP622 receiver is about a 80 foot cable run away from the switch. Something is obviously supplying power to the switch since it is working perfectly while others report that if their power inserter is off they lose their signal.


----------



## DishTim (Feb 6, 2006)

sNEIRBO said:


> This morning I wake up to find that my ViP622 is not functioning. I got a message saying a CHECK SWITCH TEST needed to be done. I do the CST - it runs through the 38 step process on Input 1, we all know how that ends up. I quickly check my 522 in the basement - everything is fine. I run a CST on that - works perfectly.
> 
> So I pull the diplexer out of the system behind the ViP622. Connect the incoming to Input 1, run the CST again. This time it it pulls up 3 of the 4 SATs, it's missing 118. I switch to input 2 - it pulls 3 out of 4, this time it's missing 129. I swap diplexers between the basement and the ViP622 - get 119 on Input 1, nothing on Input 2 on the ViP622, I get all 4 SATs on both inputs on the 522.
> 
> ...


I have the power inserter and it is needed.


----------



## INHUMANITY (Aug 8, 2005)

sNEIRBO said:


> Two + days without the power inserter and both of my receivers have been working flawlessly - possibly more stable than they ever have.
> 
> Here's my thought / question - is it possible the 522 receiver in the basement is supplying the power to the switch? My 522 receiver is less than a 15 foot cable run from the switch. My ViP622 receiver is about a 80 foot cable run away from the switch. Something is obviously supplying power to the switch since it is working perfectly while others report that if their power inserter is off they lose their signal.


Curious... Are you still running your cable through the inserter without the unit being powered up or are you bypassing it entirely?


----------



## ssmith10pn (Jul 6, 2005)

sNEIRBO said:


> Two + days without the power inserter and both of my receivers have been working flawlessly - possibly more stable than they ever have.
> 
> Here's my thought / question - is it possible the 522 receiver in the basement is supplying the power to the switch? My 522 receiver is less than a 15 foot cable run from the switch. My ViP622 receiver is about a 80 foot cable run away from the switch. Something is obviously supplying power to the switch since it is working perfectly while others report that if their power inserter is off they lose their signal.


Just make sure you post back when it stops working because it will.
The receivers can not provide enough power to power that switch and LNBs over a long period of time.



> "possibly more stable than they ever have."


There is no way that statement could be true.


----------



## sNEIRBO (Jul 23, 2006)

INHUMANITY said:


> Curious... Are you still running your cable through the inserter without the unit being powered up or are you bypassing it entirely?


Completely removed the power inserter. It's sitting on my workbench, nowhere near either receiver.

It's been working flawlessly for 4+ days now.


----------



## sNEIRBO (Jul 23, 2006)

ssmith10pn said:


> There is no way that statement could be true.


That statement is completely TRUE. My tearing / pixelization problem have disappeared from the premium channels and has been reduced severally on the HD Locals via SAT. The picture quality seems to have improved, and I'm no longer fighting with Check Switch Tests every other day to keep the system running.


----------



## dvbfan (Aug 2, 2006)

sNEIRBO said:


> That statement is completely TRUE. My tearing / pixelization problem have disappeared from the premium channels and has been reduced severally on the HD Locals via SAT. The picture quality seems to have improved, and I'm no longer fighting with Check Switch Tests every other day to keep the system running.


Maybe the run from your receiver to LNBs doesn't require power inserter because it is short and your receiver has enough juice to enable the switching all by itself?


----------



## sNEIRBO (Jul 23, 2006)

dvbfan said:


> Maybe the run from your receiver to LNBs doesn't require power inserter because it is short and your receiver has enough juice to enable the switching all by itself?


That's what I'm thinking as well. The 522 is relatively close to the switch and is feeding the power.


----------



## lujan (Feb 10, 2004)

sNEIRBO said:


> That's what I'm thinking as well. The *522* is relatively close to the switch and is feeding the power.


Why is this even in the 622 forum?


----------



## sNEIRBO (Jul 23, 2006)

lujan said:


> Why is this even in the 622 forum?


Because the DPP44 switch was REQUIRED to get the HD Locals for my *ViP622*.


----------



## device manager (Apr 11, 2006)

ssmith10pn said:


> Just make sure you post back when it stops working because it will. The receivers can not provide enough power to power that switch and LNBs over a long period of time.


FWIW I previously had two 622's on the 44 switch without the power inserter for 2 years, and several months ago I dish-n-it-up'ed to two 722's. I have a DP twin for 110/119 on a 500 dish, DP dual for 129 on a 300 dish, and another DP dual for 148 on a 300 dish. So far no problems to report on not using the power inserter.


----------



## Ken Green (Oct 6, 2005)

device manager said:


> FWIW I previously had two 622's on the 44 switch without the power inserter for 2 years, and several months ago I dish-n-it-up'ed to two 722's. I have a DP twin for 110/119 on a 500 dish, DP dual for 129 on a 300 dish, and another DP dual for 148 on a 300 dish. So far no problems to report on not using the power inserter.


Probably because of the limited amount of power required for your 3-Dish/LNB setup.
If you were running, say a 1000.2 or 1000+, receiving 4 orbitals, and using a dual-band FSS/DBS LNB, I don't think the results would be as favorable.

I run a 1000+, 4 orbitals to 6 receivers (4-dual tuner), with 2 DPP44's trunked, and cannot even get a signal lock without the power inserters in-line.

It seems to work in some configurations, and not in others.


----------



## LinkNuc (Jul 4, 2007)

sNEIRBO said:


> jmel -
> 
> The power inserter is for the 4 LNB (110, 118, 119, 129) DPP44 switch. If you have a 3 LNB setup you wouldn't have a power inserter. As of right now there are only 2 markets using the 4 LNB switches - Detroit and St Louis.


Also Pittsburgh as is my setup


----------



## kstevens (Mar 26, 2003)

Ken Green said:


> Probably because of the limited amount of power required for your 3-Dish/LNB setup.
> If you were running, say a 1000.2 or 1000+, receiving 4 orbitals, and using a dual-band FSS/DBS LNB, I don't think the results would be as favorable.
> 
> I run a 1000+, 4 orbitals to 6 receivers (4-dual tuner), with 2 DPP44's trunked, and cannot even get a signal lock without the power inserters in-line.
> ...


When the dish installers brought my 612 2 or 3 months ago, they said I nolonger needed a power inserter and removed it. I have 4 sats going to the 44 and have not had a problem at all in this set up.

Ken


----------



## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

kstevens said:


> When the dish installers brought my 612 2 or 3 months ago, they said I nolonger needed a power inserter and removed it. I have 4 sats going to the 44 and have not had a problem at all in this set up.
> 
> Ken


I don't know where they get these ideas. Reselling parts? The power inserter is always suppose to be used with the DPP44. Most of the other switches can get enough power from the receiver. To make matters worse the DPP44 draws all its power from the receiver or power inserter on port 1. The more LNB's connected the more likely to overload that receiver.


----------



## device manager (Apr 11, 2006)

After some searching I came across several posts that stated by not using the power inserter it would cause the psu in the receiver connected to port 1 of the 44 switch to run hotter due to the increased load. Sure enough I hooked up the power inserter earlier and now that same receiver runs a lot cooler.


----------



## Ken Green (Oct 6, 2005)

tnsprin said:


> I don't know where they get these ideas. Reselling parts? The power inserter is always suppose to be used with the DPP44. Most of the other switches can get enough power from the receiver. To make matters worse the DPP44 draws all its power from the receiver or power inserter on port 1. The more LNB's connected the more likely to overload that receiver.


I couldn't agree more. One would think, the manufacturer/provider has a bit better idea of whether or not the inserter is required.

From Tech Depot:

_DP Plus 44 Switch Features 
-Four inputs for use with up to four orbital locations. 
-Four outputs for connection to up to four tuner inputs.
-Four "trunk" connections, to "trunk" to another DP Plus 44 Switch. 
-*DOES require power insertion.*
-Can be used indoors or outdoors._

This issue has been bounced around since the DPP44 was released. It cannot be any clearer.


----------



## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Ken Green said:


> This issue has been bounced around since the DPP44 was released. It cannot be any clearer.


Perhaps even more to the point... Why does this ever become an issue?

All the DPP44's come with a power inserter in the box, right? So forgetting for a moment that you are supposed to use it because it needs the power... what is the "benefit" to anyone for not installing the power inserter?

Is there a black market demand for the power inserter or something?

Seriously... the confusion that keeps coming up over "needing" it aside... I can't see any possible reason not to use it since it is right there in the box.


----------



## device manager (Apr 11, 2006)

HDMe said:


> Perhaps even more to the point... Why does this ever become an issue?
> 
> All the DPP44's come with a power inserter in the box, right? So forgetting for a moment that you are supposed to use it because it needs the power... what is the "benefit" to anyone for not installing the power inserter?


Depending on your equipment config it works without it.



> Is there a black market demand for the power inserter or something?
> 
> Seriously... the confusion that keeps coming up over "needing" it aside... I can't see any possible reason not to use it since it is right there in the box.


Not if the installer keeps it for himself.


----------



## TorinoCobra (Sep 24, 2006)

HDMe said:


> Perhaps even more to the point... Why does this ever become an issue?
> Seriously... the confusion that keeps coming up over "needing" it aside... I can't see any possible reason not to use it since it is right there in the box.


Aesthetics. It's a big, ugly power supply, cable and inserter sitting on the floor next to my fancy new A/V cabinet taking up one of my precious few power outlets. Sure I could splice into my cable and install it in my attic, but there is no power outlet at that end of the attic, and I'm too lazy to get up there in the middle of summer.


----------



## DishTSR3Mentor (Nov 3, 2006)

the 44 switch does require a power source *the power inserter* if it is not plugged in, the only other way your system is functioning is because the proximity of your 522 to the switch is close enough to arc the electricity required (as of now) - if your system has to overhaul to pick up a signal (possibly during a light storm or during overcast skies) you will lose it all. 

The 44 switch is designed to require a power source, it must have one. If your power inserter is off the switch and things cleared up, I question whether or not that power inserter wasn't supplying too much power to your dish (again, a proximity issue) and thus choking out your signal. This is very possible and has happened to me in the past. (This can also happen when you have a dish pro plus seperator that isn't discharging the electricity it is fed via the sat-in inputs).

I would suggest that you contact dish to have a tech come and witness this firsthand. At that point, you can have them replace your power inserter. Because, again, it is required to make 100% sure the switch doesn't kill your signal.


----------



## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

To summarize...

1. Power inserter is required for all DPP44 installations. Doesn't matter if it "works" without it, the power inserter is still required. I don't "need" all of my blood, but if I let it leak out all over the place, eventually it becomes a problem.

Similarly, I need to drink water at least every few days and eat probably once a week or so... and regular breathing is STRONGLY recommended. 

2. What is the "black market" or otherwise use for an installer to not install the power inserter? Nobody else should need it except someone else with a DPP44...who should already have one!


----------



## scoobyxj (Apr 15, 2008)

I can tell you that a DPP 44 switch needs to have the inserter hooked up. I have personally replaced a receiver that was burnt up due to the power inserter not being hooked up. The sad part is when the receiver went it burnt up the switch which took out the other receiver as well.


----------



## kstevens (Mar 26, 2003)

Well, I just called up Dish technical support and they agree with the installer. He said that the 612 and 211k that I have supplies more than sufficient power to a dpp-44 and that a power inserter is not required.

Ken


----------



## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

kstevens said:


> Well, I just called up Dish technical support and they agree with the installer. He said that the 612 and 211k that I have supplies more than sufficient power to a dpp-44 and that a power inserter is not required.
> 
> Ken


Remember only port 1 supplies the DPP-44 with power. So only the receiver on that port is supplying the power.


----------



## kstevens (Mar 26, 2003)

That is correct, he said either one had sufficient power for the dpp-44

Ken


----------



## puckwithahalo (Sep 3, 2007)

> Well, I just called up Dish technical support and they agree with the installer. He said that the 612 and 211k that I have supplies more than sufficient power to a dpp-44 and that a power inserter is not required.
> 
> Ken


They *CAN* provide enough power. That does not mean that they *SHOULD*. Its already been explained that this could cause the receiver providing the power to burn out. So, to reiterate, the power inserter needs to be connected when using a DPP-44 switch.


----------



## kstevens (Mar 26, 2003)

I specifically addressed this point and he said that it is NOT, period, a concern. I think I have to rely on their knowledge base.

Ken


----------



## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Hate to be blunt, but... I wouldn't rely on that answer as factual.

Incidentally, it is also true that some external hard drives can draw power from Dish receiver's through the USB port... but it is not supported nor recommended.

There are lots of things that might work, or appear to work, but when not designed specifically to work in that configuration you are just asking for trouble.


----------



## kstevens (Mar 26, 2003)

And how do you know the receivers are not designed to work in this configuration. I'm pretty certain they and the installer are not just arbitrarily making recommendations. 

Ken


----------



## device manager (Apr 11, 2006)

kstevens said:


> And how do you know the receivers are not designed to work in this configuration. I'm pretty certain they and the installer are not just arbitrarily making recommendations.
> 
> Ken


On the flip side there are Dish techs and contractors that state you must use the power inserter. As I stated before my ViP 622 (went thru 2 of them due to reboot or bad HDMI port) receivers powered the DPP44 for 2 years without the inserter. Since I have had my 722 it's been purring along without the inserter. For kicks and grins I connected the power inserter and it runs cooler. I'll take less heat FTW


----------



## puckwithahalo (Sep 3, 2007)

> I specifically addressed this point and he said that it is NOT, period, a concern. I think I have to rely on their knowledge base.
> 
> Ken


Plain and simple, he was wrong. Now, I could get into the technical details about it. I could even go talk to engineering about it if you want.



> And how do you know the receivers are not designed to work in this configuration. I'm pretty certain they and the installer are not just arbitrarily making recommendations.
> 
> Ken


because I'm advanced tech support at E* and have been there for 3 years?


----------



## kstevens (Mar 26, 2003)

puckwithahalo said:


> Plain and simple, he was wrong. Now, I could get into the technical details about it. I could even go talk to engineering about it if you want.
> 
> because I'm advanced tech support at E* and have been there for 3 years?


We'll, all I can say, they point blank refused to send me a power inserter to replace the one the instlaller removed.

Ken


----------



## puckwithahalo (Sep 3, 2007)

> We'll, all I can say, they point blank refused to send me a power inserter to replace the one the instlaller removed.
> 
> Ken


call again and ask for a supervisor if they won't do it. or e-mail [email protected]


----------

