# How bad is the R15 really?



## skaeight (Jan 15, 2004)

I'm curious just how bad the R15 really is. I currently have a couple DirecTivos and don't plan to replace any of them any time soon, however I'm curious what my upgrade path will be like in the future.

I had planned to migrate to cable and SA TiVo S3, however with the elimination of the Lifetime subcription, it's ends up being much more expensive than Directv for 2 DVR's.

So as a DirecTivo user, would I be completely disappointed if d* sent in team to swap my receivers out tonight? What would I miss.? What just plain doesn't work? How unstable are these receivers? I'm just curious if these will ever be a viable replacement option. I am willing to give up the obvious differences, i.e. suggestions, wishlists. 

By reading this message board, am I only seeing the worst case scenario or are these issues common place? Thoughts?


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## chrishiatt1973 (Nov 22, 2005)

skaeight said:


> I'm curious just how bad the R15 really is. I currently have a couple DirecTivos and don't plan to replace any of them any time soon, however I'm curious what my upgrade path will be like in the future.
> 
> I had planned to migrate to cable and SA TiVo S3, however with the elimination of the Lifetime subcription, it's ends up being much more expensive than Directv for 2 DVR's.
> 
> ...


lacks dual live buffers = bad if you like to flip between shows and want to rewind each of them

lacks a good guide = lack of full show info

is unstable when recording your shows, wil record lower priorty shows instead of higher ones when they are both same /// repeat etc

has no suggestions.. although in directvs pdf they act like will in 2007

lacks changes you can make, no changing from defaults

lacks an undelte folder

limits the series links to an unacceptablely low 50

limits the recent searches

limits what you can search by (no directr etc)

has no wish list type thing where you can store your wants of shows names etc, and cant easily choose to have it record them or just keep them there till you want to use them

and box is crash/freeeze happy


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

One can get that impression. But it's not as bad as it seems.

I've been very critical of the R15 as I currently have 5 SD DTivos and 1 HD DTivo. I also have 1 R15.

With my R15 I didn't start experiencing the freezes and such until I started loading it up with things to do. If you're a standard Joe User with 10-12 Season Passes on your Tivos, you should be fine. If you're a power user, or like hacking the Tivos, that's a different story.

Despite the problems with the R15, make sure you understand this is not a Tivo. No dual buffers, loose the one live buffer when you watch a recording, no "Wishlists", searches work differently...I could continue but there are many other threads here and elsewhere that compare the Tivo to the R15.

In the end, if your Tivos don't die, you'll be able to use them until they do. DTV isn't about to turn Tivos off. If you need to add a new DVR, check out eBay for a used DTivo or remember that the R15 is being worked on by DTV and new software releases are being sent out. You get those automagically and we all hope and cross our fingers the next one will at least solve the big problems mentioned here. Ah, but we also hoped and crossed our fingers that the last update would do the same.

How bad is it? In my opinion it was rushed to market. With the updates received so far I don't believe it should be sold even now. But that's just my opinion. We just don't know. Without releasing it, maybe they would have never found many of the problems reported here.


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## skaeight (Jan 15, 2004)

chrishiatt1973 said:


> lacks dual live buffers = bad if you like to flip between shows and want to rewind each of them


I already know about this, that isn't make or break, but it certainly would be nice to have it operate in a manner simialar to tivo.



> lacks a good guide = lack of full show info


This has me curious. Why is this? Why can't they just use the same info that DirecTiVo's or even standard recevers use?



> is unstable when recording your shows, wil record lower priorty shows instead of higher ones when they are both same /// repeat etc


If this is true, that is a major problem. Core DVR functionality is mainly what I care about.



> has no suggestions.. although in directvs pdf they act like will in 2007


As I said in my post, I really could live w/ out suggestions if I had to.



> lacks changes you can make, no changing from defaults


Not sure what you mean by this?



> lacks an undelte folder


So does TiVo and most every other DVR I've seen.



> and box is crash/freeeze happy


If you or someone else could corroborate this with specific examples, and the frequency it would help. Saying it's crash happy doesn't mean much to me because that's pretty subjective.

Thanks for the response.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

skaeight said:


> I'm curious just how bad the R15 really is. I currently have a couple DirecTivos and don't plan to replace any of them any time soon, however I'm curious what my upgrade path will be like in the future.
> 
> I had planned to migrate to cable and SA TiVo S3, however with the elimination of the Lifetime subcription, it's ends up being much more expensive than Directv for 2 DVR's.
> 
> ...


Lite users are not having many issues with the box as the power users are. If I were in you I would wait. I think in the next month or two you should have no problem getting one and having it work correctly recording shows. If you get one now you'll have to babysit day to day. As long as D* keeps working at it, the R15 will be a wonderful box. So basically if you can wait I would, hopefully it won't be that long.


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## skaeight (Jan 15, 2004)

Wolffpack said:


> One can get that impression. But it's not as bad as it seems.
> 
> I've been very critical of the R15 as I currently have 5 SD DTivos and 1 HD DTivo. I also have 1 R15.
> 
> ...


Yeah I definitly fall in the latter, power user category. I believe I have around 56 SP's on my one TiVo and another 7 on the other. I realize I'd lose a lot of the added TiVo features, but I was just curious how well it would function as a basic DVR. It sounds like it really needs some time to mature. It also sounds very similar to Dish DVR's (at least a couple of years ago when I was looking at which Sat provider to go with).

It just seems like Directv is going to have to get this stuff fixed. They have so many people that are extremely happy with their Tivos, and now they bring out a product that really shouldn't have been released. It's one thing for us highend power users to be frustrated, but when Joe Sixpack starts calling up wondering what happened to tivo and why they replaced his tivo that always worked, with this half baked solution, they're going to have problems.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

skaeight said:


> If you or someone else could corroborate this with specific examples, and the frequency it would help. Saying it's crash happy doesn't mean much to me because that's pretty subjective.


This seems to be related to the amount of SL that you have. The higher the SL the more crashes/lockups (mostly in the GUI). I one had one lockup before the last update, after that the 2 of mine with 32-36 SL started locking up everyday/everyother day. It's settle down a little bit and locks up every week or so now.


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

skaeight said:


> I believe I have around 56 SP's on my one TiVo


See, the problem is you watch too much TV. At least according to DirecTV. You'd have to lose at least 6 of those to be able to even use an R15 (hard limit of 50). You'd have to lose another 20 or so to make it work reliably.


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## skaeight (Jan 15, 2004)

walters said:


> See, the problem is you watch too much TV. At least according to DirecTV. You'd have to lose at least 6 of those to be able to even use an R15 (hard limit of 50). You'd have to lose another 20 or so to make it work reliably.


Ha, that might be true. I don't necessarily watch everything I record though, some stuff is just there just incase there's nothing else on. Also, not all of those are even currently active shows.


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## chrishiatt1973 (Nov 22, 2005)

skaeight said:


> Ha, that might be true. I don't necessarily watch everything I record though, some stuff is just there just incase there's nothing else on. Also, not all of those are even currently active shows.


that is the bad thing,, directv wants to tight limit of a control of whow much you can have on your box


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## Joe C (Mar 3, 2005)

walters said:


> See, the problem is you watch too much TV. At least according to DirecTV. You'd have to lose at least 6 of those to be able to even use an R15 (hard limit of 50). You'd have to lose another 20 or so to make it work reliably.


Better be carefull, Directv might think your using to much TV and charge extra for it.:lol:


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## skaeight (Jan 15, 2004)

Joe C said:


> Better be carefull, Directv might think your using to much TV and charge extra for it.:lol:


So maybe the answer to my question is ditch the DVR altogether, and read more books :grin: .


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

Okay, I'll add some positive remarks.

I've got two R15's and one R10 Tivo based dvr. Overall, I prefer the R15. Overall, both of my R15's work quite well. I have had one situation in four months where I had to do a reset. I've missed one recording. I've had no partial recordings.

The R15 obviously has some problems, and DirecTV is working hard to correct them. The general expectation is that a software upgrade will be released within the next few weeks, but there is no firm knowledge that I am aware of as to exactly when. That should correct the major problems with regard to series link issues - the fundamental "it needs to record what and when" stuff.

The R15 definately has a different user interface than do Tivo based units. I prefer it, but many who are experienced Tivo users find it cumbersome. There are certainly design differences from Tivo. Those are not deficiencies, nor do they make the R15 an inferior product, only a different product. The two most discussed differences are the lack of dual live buffers, and the lack of a 30 second skip function. The R15 also has a number of features and functions that are not found on other units - improvements over it's predecesors, if you will.

From my personal experience, the R15 is a usable DVR today, and will be a very good DVR after another software upgrade or two.

There are other products out there, and if someone does not like the R15, they have choices.

I do not work for DirecTV or any company associated or affiliated with them in any way, never have, and don't expect I ever will.

Carl


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## skaeight (Jan 15, 2004)

carl6 said:


> Okay, I'll add some positive remarks.
> 
> I've got two R15's and one R10 Tivo based dvr. Overall, I prefer the R15. Overall, both of my R15's work quite well. I have had one situation in four months where I had to do a reset. I've missed one recording. I've had no partial recordings.
> 
> ...


Thanks, this is kind of what I was looking for. I just wanted to see if there were any positive remarks about the R15. I knew it couldn't be all bad. Don't get me wrong, my tivo's aren't going anywhere soon, but the geeky side of me wants to get my hands on a new toy. I'll be keeping my eye on how the R15 progresses and maybe pick one up at some point in the future. Thanks for all the feedback everyone.


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

Excellent post carl.....


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## fergiej (Nov 16, 2005)

I agree with Carl 110%. I have had very few problems with this box. Yes, I'd like it to record what i ask it to, but repeats aren't THAT big of a deal for me. Other than that, now that i've gotten used to it, I like the interface alot. Some things I like the TiVo better, others I like the R-15.

You guys really ought to try the Comcast Motorola DVR's. Yes, it's dual tuner. Yes it records HD. Usually. Yes, I only have to pay $9.95 a month to rent it. Those are the only good things I can say about it. I will be shutting down my DTV soon and I am really, really going to miss the R-15. Out of the box, even with it's difficulties, it blows away the "polished" Moto boxes. Even without HD. I cannot wait until I can purchase the TiVo s3 box just to get rid of this abomination. That comment was probably in bad taste on this forum , sorry. But, I really, really am going to miss the r-15.


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## doc_j (Dec 25, 2005)

As an R15 user who migrated here from UTV, my perspective is similar to Carl's. Sure, UTV did a good job of recording first run shows and it could do PiP, but it, too, had issues. It's response speed was extremely slow, evidence of a processor design from quite a few years ago. It also had rather limited storage space, another artifact of its age. Most importantly of all, it hadn't been improved or updated in several years, ever since Microsoft decided to drop it. At least with the R15, we can assume DTV will continue to support and improve it.


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

I have an R-15, R-10 and another model DirecTivo and by far I find the R-15 to have the best features. You can see all them listed in another thread here.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=54177&page=3

I use the R-15 and R-10 both daily as the R-15 limits SL's to only 50 and I have 88 on the R-10. I have the first 50 SL/SP's duplicated on both units as a test and also a backup in case the R-15 acts up. I also use the R-10s wishlist and add shows to the R-15 from it.

I hope to soon have three R-15's and no DirecTiVos once the bugs are worked out and the SL limits are increased.


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## skaeight (Jan 15, 2004)

Bobman said:


> I have an R-15, R-10 and another model DirecTivo and by far I find the R-15 to have the best features. You can see all them listed in another thread here.
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=54177&page=3
> 
> ...


Just of curiosity, and I don't mean to single you out, I've seen a couple of people say this, but why are you so eager to ditch the DirecTiVos? I'm extremely happy with mine, and plan to use them until they die. I may at some point add an R15 just to play around with, but I don't see any need to ditch hardware that works flawlessly.


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

skaeight said:


> why are you so eager to ditch the DirecTiVos?


I like the features the R-15 has that the DirecTivos dont. Some prefer the DirecTiVo features (30 second skip, dual buffers....) but they dont matter much to me. I dont watch live TV and about all I would miss is the Wishlist, with the R-15 you have to search one by one.

Picture and sound in all the menus and screens.

Ability to watch a recorded show and still do other things like browse the guide or do some housecleaning. .

One line guide to use so it doesnt block the TV picture.

Free space % indicator.

Much longer buffer(s) ????????

A fast guide and in the guide you can tell at a glance what shows are scheduled to record, also simply press record in the guide and the show will record or a SL will be made.

Interactive channels (News Mix, Sports Mix, etc...) and features for sports like NFL, NBA, Olympics, etc...

Caller ID on screen,

Conflict select screens where it allows you to choose from ALL conflicts

Active features with Best Bests PPV shows, lottery, weather, horoscope, daily TV highlights and more.

Ability to directly record XM channels.

Download PPV's to watch later without paying and if you dont watch you dont pay.

A lot of sort options in the VOD

Able to see the program descriptions in the VOD without clicking on the program.

Manual recording can be done in1 minute increments.

Cool blue whirling swirling light on the box. (I know some hate it)

Very fast FF and RR.

Main menu is a small overlay so you can still watch TV when looking for options.

Two favorite channels lists.

Stores previous channels viewed for quick recall

A lot of Parental Control options


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## skaeight (Jan 15, 2004)

There are a lot of appealing features there. I can understand why someone would want to switch once they fix Series Link issues. 

My major concern would be fastforwarding. How hard is it to navigate to where you want to be without the auto compensation that TiVo's FF/ RW have? Do you ever find yourself 5-10 seconds past where you want to be?


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

skaeight said:


> There are a lot of appealing features there. I can understand why someone would want to switch once they fix Series Link issues.
> 
> My major concern would be fastforwarding. How hard is it to navigate to where you want to be without the auto compensation that TiVo's FF/ RW have? Do you ever find yourself 5-10 seconds past where you want to be?


I usually overshoot by just a little but then I tap the skip back button 2-3 times and I am at the start of where I want to be again. I had the same issues with TiVo in both FF and 30 Sec Skip modes so it's no great adjustment to me.


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

skaeight said:


> There are a lot of appealing features there. I can understand why someone would want to switch once they fix Series Link issues.
> 
> My major concern would be fastforwarding. How hard is it to navigate to where you want to be without the auto compensation that TiVo's FF/ RW have? Do you ever find yourself 5-10 seconds past where you want to be?


It actually gets pretty easy to hit once you get used to it. Yes, it's different timing than the Tivo box but it's (bad comparison to follow) like the brakes on our two cars. One I have to "touch" the brakes to stop, the other I have to "mash" the pedal.

You get used to it.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

skaeight said:


> There are a lot of appealing features there. I can understand why someone would want to switch once they fix Series Link issues.
> 
> My major concern would be fastforwarding. How hard is it to navigate to where you want to be without the auto compensation that TiVo's FF/ RW have? Do you ever find yourself 5-10 seconds past where you want to be?


Coming from a UTV to the R15 and just using a HD tivo for 2 weeks now, I find the R15 isn't that bad if you only use FFx1, FFx2, and FFx3. FFx4 is a luck of the draw to where it's going to stop. If they changed the R15 3 sec jumpback to a 30 sec it would be alot better, or if they would build in a little autojumpback like the UTV. With Tivo it seems that you have to pass up where you want to start by a lot to get the jumpback to work correct. On the Tivo I hit play when I see the show start i end up way to far back into a commerical, so I FF again and hit play and end back in the commerical again.


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

cabanaboy1977 said:


> Coming from a UTV to the R15 and just using a HD tivo for 2 weeks now, I find the R15 isn't that bad if you only use FFx1, FFx2, and FFx3. FFx4 is a luck of the draw to where it's going to stop. If they changed the R15 3 sec jumpback to a 30 sec it would be alot better, or if they would build in a little autojumpback like the UTV. With Tivo it seems that you have to pass up where you want to start by a lot to get the jumpback to work correct. On the Tivo I hit play when I see the show start i end up way to far back into a commerical, so I FF again and hit play and end back in the commerical again.


A "user default" setting would be nice for I'm sure online gamers have faster reactions then us old folk.


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

skaeight said:


> without the auto compensation


I want it to stop where I want and not fight with the thing as it keeps "correcting" where it thinks I want to be. Its a DirecTiVo feature that I do not miss and hope is never added to the R-15.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

Bobman said:


> I want it to stop where I want and not fight with the thing as it keeps "correcting" where it thinks I want to be. Its a DirecTiVo feature that I do not miss and hope is never added to the R-15.


I honestly have to agree here. That was one of the most annoying things on my TiVos, I would tell it to stop as I saw the start of a show and boom it would bounce back and I would have to watch commercials.


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## mikewolf13 (Jan 31, 2006)

skaeight said:


> I'm extremely happy with mine, and plan to use them until they die. .


Based on this I don' tthink there is a chance in hell you will like the r-15 more. Even assuming the machine works as hoped. Anyone who really enjoys the way the Tivo works will be frustrated.

Eventually you will have no choice...wait until you have to, or if you have a room to use it in get it and test it out.


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

mikewolf13 said:


> I don' tthink there is a chance in hell you will like the r-15 more.


In another month or so after 1-2 more R-15 updates and there are no more stability or SL problems, the DirecTiVo people are going to be VERY quiet. As then the R-15 will be just as reliable and have WAY more features like I listed above.


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

Bobman said:


> I want it to stop where I want and not fight with the thing as it keeps "correcting" where it thinks I want to be. Its a DirecTiVo feature that I do not miss and hope is never added to the R-15.


You could disable or adjust the overshoot correction in the Tivo (at least in some versions...it was a backdoor thing, IIRC).

I like it and miss it, ESPECIALLY with the lack of a 30-sec skip. I want it back.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

ApK said:


> You could disable or adjust the overshoot correction in the Tivo (at least in some versions...it was a backdoor thing, IIRC).
> 
> I like it and miss it, ESPECIALLY with the lack of a 30-sec skip. I want it back.


It was disabled a long time ago (I think early in the 3x version cycle)

As for the 30 second skip...........................................................


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## joegrjoe (Mar 17, 2006)

Bobman said:


> In another month or so after 1-2 more R-15 updates and there are no more stability or SL problems, the DirecTiVo people are going to be VERY quiet. As then the R-15 will be just as reliable and have WAY more features like I listed above.


Will not have a suggestion / type feature yet untill 2007 . when it has that with rest they are supposed be adding, this thing might be ok


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

joegrjoe said:


> Will not have a suggestion / type feature yet untill 2007 . when it has that with rest they are supposed be adding, this thing might be ok


How do you know it won't have a feature added until 2007?


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## joegrjoe (Mar 17, 2006)

Kanyon71 said:


> How do you know it won't have a feature added until 2007?


I meant that particular feature, not others, I have no idea when they will add others


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## Brennok (Dec 23, 2005)

Kanyon71 said:


> I honestly have to agree here. That was one of the most annoying things on my TiVos, I would tell it to stop as I saw the start of a show and boom it would bounce back and I would have to watch commercials.


You do realize when fast forwarding with Tivo you can hit pause to stop, then pause again to play and there is no compensation? I find I do that more often if I am paying attention and it works great.

I wished the R15 had grown on me but I finally shelved the units since I couldn't get into it. I figure I will try again once they raise the series link and to do list limit. Among my 3 current Tivos I have around 325 season passes including duplicates. When I set up my new Tivo I had 56 season passes just for primetime so the R15 wasn't even a valid solution for me to use as a backup.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

325 Season Passes!!!!!!!!!!!!

What in the world are you recording...

I have a hard time getting 50, and that is with shows that I would never watch.

Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Agrajag (Jun 22, 2004)

I own a series 1 DirecTiVo that I've had forever. I'm also not a fan of the HD TiVo due to the lack of a native pass-through option. Thus, I've been holding off for now on upgrading to anything hoping the new HD DVR shows up and isn't too bad. Frankly, I don't expect much there. They've yet to really get a receiver fully right. I really miss the days when Sony and the rest were putting out boxes.

Anyway, I recently got an offer from DirecTV to get a free DVR including free installation (good thing as I recently broke my leg and can't do any install-type work for quite some time). Just recently, my 11 year-old son has started becoming annoying with our TiVo. Out of nowhere we started seeing all these Cartoon Network shows showing up and, most recently, we noticed a few shows didn't record as he figured out how to move his shows up the priority list!

Of course we had a chat about this but some of it still continued so I figured that this would be a great opportunity to not only test out the newer boxes but to make both him and us happy. So I went ahead and ordered it. It took 3 visits by installers to get the work done. The first two simply wanted nothing to do with the install which took the third guy all of 20 minutes but we finally ended up with an R15.

My initial thoughts were that it looked terrible. I absolutely HATED the idea of two Guide presses to get a guide. I much prefer the TiVo approach there. I also am in the minority and like TiVo's guide. However, the unit quickly started to impress me with its speed and ease of use.

However, a few things are a bit confusing and since I'm not using the unit personally, I'll ask here:

First, where is the list of Series that you record? In other words, where is the equivalent to a Season Pass list? I can't find it. Can you set priorities of the programs it records? Does it work?

Second, am I to understand that if you watch a recorded show, when you leave the recorded show, the buffer for the live show will be empty? That's a bummer.

What are the red,blue,green,yellow buttons on the remote for? Hit them initially and they didn't do anything but that was before the unit was fully set up.

I keep telling CSR reps that I wish DirecTV would just bite the bullet and buy TiVo out to a) keep them from helping competitors and b) to get access to TiVo's few patents. When I say this, CSR's ask what features TiVo has that these units can't do and I mention wishlists and the ability to record a show via the season option regardless of the night or length. The reps always say, "Oh, our boxes do that completely too." I am under the impression that these boxes cannot record a show with the same flexibility of the TiVo's. On that issue:

First, consider the new show "Out of Practice" on CBS. It's moving from Monday to Wednesday night. Would the R15 record it on this different night? 

Second, and I thought I was sure about this being a problem, if a show is usually say 30 minutes and has a 1 hour special, am I right that you'll miss the extended time? I was pretty sure this is one of the items TiVo has a patent on and, to me, if that's accurate it's a real reason on its own for considering purchasing TiVo. No DVR is complete in my view without this ability. 

By the way, if you want some fun, call the DVR a PVR with the customer service reps and they'll flat out ask you what the hell you're talking about. I've called them PVR's longer than DVR's so it's hard to change. Murdoch even calls them PVR's so you'd think they'd at least have a clue as to what a PVR is and the similarity in the terms.


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

All current DVRs to my knowlege will follow a show to a different day/time and correctly handle a program length change.


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## TMullenJr (Feb 23, 2006)

Agrajag said:


> First, where is the list of Series that you record? In other words, where is the equivalent to a Season Pass list? I can't find it. Can you set priorities of the programs it records? Does it work?


If you press LIST, then press the yellow button, it will bring up your To Do list. If you press select on any of the shows, it will bring you to another menu. On that new menu will be your priotizer option. Yes it works. I had 3 things set to record on Friday nights at 10:00 (Galactica, Convicted (or something like that) & Monk. I had Monk set to the lowest priority, and it recorded the rebroadcast at 1:00.



> What are the red,blue,green,yellow buttons on the remote for? Hit them initially and they didn't do anything but that was before the unit was fully set up.


They change depending on where you are. The blue during live TV brings up an abbreviated program guide.



> First, consider the new show "Out of Practice" on CBS. It's moving from Monday to Wednesday night. Would the R15 record it on this different night?


Yes.



> Second, and I thought I was sure about this being a problem, if a show is usually say 30 minutes and has a 1 hour special, am I right that you'll miss the extended time?


It records the entire program. Even the stupid shows that start at x:59 or end at x:02.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

Agrajag said:


> First, where is the list of Series that you record? In other words, where is the equivalent to a Season Pass list? I can't find it. Can you set priorities of the programs it records? Does it work?


Go to MYVOD hit the yellow button. Which will take you to the todo list and then select the priorty list and yes it works like the SP manager.



Agrajag said:


> Second, am I to understand that if you watch a recorded show, when you leave the recorded show, the buffer for the live show will be empty? That's a bummer.


Yup, it sucks. Hopefully it will be fixed soon.



Agrajag said:


> What are the red,blue,green,yellow buttons on the remote for? Hit them initially and they didn't do anything but that was before the unit was fully set up.


They do different things depending on where you are.



Agrajag said:


> First, consider the new show "Out of Practice" on CBS. It's moving from Monday to Wednesday night. Would the R15 record it on this different night?


Yes it will.



Agrajag said:


> Second, and I thought I was sure about this being a problem, if a show is usually say 30 minutes and has a 1 hour special, am I right that you'll miss the extended time? I was pretty sure this is one of the items TiVo has a patent on and, to me, if that's accurate it's a real reason on its own for considering purchasing TiVo. No DVR is complete in my view without this ability.


Yes it will record it.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

Agrajag said:


> I keep telling CSR reps that I wish DirecTV would just bite the bullet and buy TiVo out to a) keep them from helping competitors and b) to get access to TiVo's few patents.


Be careful what you wish for. My guess is that if DirecTV were to buy out Tivo, you would not see them change their product line to be based on Tivo technology. They have already charted the future course for their dvr technology. If they bought Tivo, it would be to limit the dvr competition. You would essentially see Tivo go away. Dumbed down boxes might be licensed to other providers. Almost certainly you would see the ability to hack be locked down. You would lose any networking capabilities, as D* wants to be able to market those features, not provide them for free. Whether they used Tivo or NDS programming would be a business, not a technical, decision.

Carl


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

carl6 said:


> Be careful what you wish for. My guess is that if DirecTV were to buy out Tivo, you would not see them change their product line to be based on Tivo technology. They have already charted the future course for their dvr technology. If they bought Tivo, it would be to limit the dvr competition. You would essentially see Tivo go away. Dumbed down boxes might be licensed to other providers. Almost certainly you would see the ability to hack be locked down. You would lose any networking capabilities, as D* wants to be able to market those features, not provide them for free. Whether they used Tivo or NDS programming would be a business, not a technical, decision.
> 
> Carl


I have a felling that regardless of who buys TiVo if they are actually sold the hacking portion is a thing of the past. Just my opinion though. I think that if the R15 is brought up to snuff on reliablity then it's a moot point if they own TiVo or not. The R15 is a good box and just needs some issues fixed. I don't want it to be TiVo I don't like many of the directions TiVo has taken over the years, they have concentrated more on it being an internet box then it being a DVR and I don't like that. These boxes will never be as fast as say even my slowest computer so why make them do all these things?

DirecTV and TiVo need to both worry about making really good DVR's or you never know Earl and his newly constructed MCEbonovic PC/DVR with Uber Scheduling may swoop in and overthrow all of them.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Clint Lamor said:


> DirecTV and TiVo need to both worry about making really good DVR's or you never know Earl and his newly constructed MCEbonovic PC/DVR with Uber Scheduling may swoop in and overthrow all of them.


I like that idea...


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## wohlfie (Dec 28, 2005)

Clint Lamor said:


> .... or you never know Earl and his newly constructed MCEbonovic PC/DVR with Uber Scheduling may swoop in and overthrow all of them.


ya know, I think I saw an option for Uber Scheduling in the R15 manual....but it might have just been a screenshot.....:hurah:


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

wohlfie said:


> ya know, I think I saw an option for Uber Scheduling in the R15 manual....but it might have just been a screenshot.....:hurah:


:lol: you know the page?


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## Agrajag (Jun 22, 2004)

Thanks for all the help. All of this is great news to the point of my thinking I might want to retire my Series 1 DirecTiVo! It's become so mind-numblingly slow over the last year or so as to be nearly unusable. We only have 12 shows in the SP list and yet ANY editing takes several minutes and, in some cases, more than 10 minutes. It's ridiculous.

I'm completely shocked to find that I was wrong about shows on non-standard lengths and non-standard times recording fully. That's terrific news.

On the TiVo going in non-DVR directions, I couldn't agree more. It's one of the things I argued on their forums for ages, with no luck. TiVo was acting as if they had perfected television recording when there still was a long way to go. They ended up failing where MANY companies fail; They started to believe their own hype and the input of the fanatics. For example, they put a ton of effort and money into their HMO feature set when 95% of people have NO interest in that sort of thing (I do, but I realize I'm in a minority). Imagine going to your AVERAGE TV viewer and saying, "Hey, do you want to listen to your music on the TiVo? Simply set up a wireless network, understand how your router works, turn on your PC, set up shares, then go downstairs and set up an access point, turn on the TV and the TiVo, turn on your receiver and then you can play a song.

It's ludicrous to think that sort of approach is going to appeal to a majority of your audience. To drop all the effort to improve your core functionality for things like that showed me that TiVo had lost its way.


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## skaeight (Jan 15, 2004)

Bump....

So it's been a month and a half since I first posed the question, "How bad is the R15 really?"

I've been monitoring this board a little bit, it seems like things are getting a little better. it's great to see they're implementing 30 second SLIP. For people w/ 30 sec skip enable on their tivos how does this compare?

Overall how is everyone liking their R15's? Are they almost to the point where they are an acceptable substitute for a dtivo?

The on thing that is still a deal breaker for me is the 50/99 limits on SL/ Todo list. I mean I have 63 season passes right now, granted these aren't all currently active shows, some might even not be on the air anymore, but I don't like to add and delete season passes when a show goes on break. If they could address this issue I might seriously consider picking one up.

So please give me input on how you are liking the reciever, good, bad, ugly, etc. Thanks.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

I just went back through this entire forum the other day, and it seems to me that the really bad reactions, the really bad posts and comments, have decreased significantly over the 5 or so months covered.

Now, what that really means is harder to determine. I think it is a combination of things.

1. The initial "shock" of the differences between Tivo based units and the R15 resulted in many early complaints. These were due to design differences as opposed to actual defects or problems. Not just dual buffers and 30 second skip, but also the overall look and feel, the menu structures, the remote design, etc.

2. People are becomming more familiar with their R15's as they use them more. They are learning the remote functions, the menu's, etc., so the R15 is now becoming "comfortable" and "familiar" to them, as Tivo units previously had.

3. There have been multiple software revisions, each having made an incremental improvement in the overall performance and operaton of the R15. Taken individually, they may not have been all that noticeable, but collectively the R15 is now more stable and more reliable than it was initially.

4. Combined with item 3, there have also been changes to the information in the data stream, which has improved the operation or performance of the R15.

In summary, we are overall better off today than we were in November or December.

However, if you are a tivo user, and do not yet have an R15, then the day you get one you are still going to suffer the change experience. But I think once you have one up and running for a month (and are actually using it), I think you will find that overall it is a decent unit, albiet one that still has differences from tivo.

Carl


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## profbobo (Jan 22, 2006)

I've been absent for a while and have a few questions.

My wife and I had two R15s from end of Jan to the end of March and gave up on them. We bought two R10s off eBay and are much happier. The R15s sit in their boxes on a basement shelf. 

The three things that really really made me mad that I almost broke the remote are:

#1. The Complete inability to record a Find By Keyword for sports packages. I subscribe to NHLCI. 

With TiVo I have a keyword wishlist for Red Wings/Sports/Hockey. It always records them and they always show up in the To Do List. I did have to remove the channels I don't receive from the Channels I Receive List. But after that. No problems. 

With the R15 it either didn't recorded them or would try from a RSN that I couldn't remove. I had to manually go through the menu and set the games to record every day. Since DirecTV sometimes doesn't know the channels games are on for a couple days. If I was gone for the weekend and a game was on Sunday, I couldn't record it since I wasn't there to babysit it every day.

Has the Auto Record Find By Keyword been fixed yet?

#2. The ability to record the same show title on two different channels. Family Guy on FOX, Family Guy on TOON. Not being able to record both unless you set up a timed record is sooooooooo stupid. I hated that.

Has this been fixed?

#3. The instant replay on a show that is currently recording causing it to stop and ask you if you wanted to delete it. 

That made me almost break the remote. Has it been fixed?

There are many other things I hated about the R15. Those are a few. 

O and I hated the limited info in the guide. Year, Original Air Date, etc.

And the loss of buffer when you go to watch a recorded show. That really bugged me.

Some menus seemed to have show desc and others didn't. You had no idea what episode of a show you were going to play.

My wife hated it more than I did. My mom has a T-60 and uses it. I can't imagine that she would be able to use the R15 without calling me for help. IMHO, that is DirecTV's biggest problem. Can you imagine your mom or non techie family member hooking up a R15 and using it based on that manual. DirecTV should be ashamed of themselves for that manual. I still think the R15 was released about 6-12 months too early and will have to work extra hard to shake it's bad image.

Thanks for letting me rant a little. I'm still semi-interested in the R15. More because I love tech and electronics though.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

profbobo said:


> #1. The Complete inability to record a Find By Keyword for sports packages. I subscribe to NHLCI.


Don't know on this one.



profbobo said:


> #2. The ability to record the same show title on two different channels. Family Guy on FOX, Family Guy on TOON. Not being able to record both unless you set up a timed record is sooooooooo stupid. I hated that.


No, still not working yet but Earl says there are working in on it.



profbobo said:


> #3. The instant replay on a show that is currently recording causing it to stop and ask you if you wanted to delete it.


Same as #2, it's been worked on, but hasn't been fixed.


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## ad301 (Mar 30, 2004)

profbobo said:


> #1. The Complete inability to record a Find By Keyword for sports packages...


From reading here (I no longer have an r15 myself), it doesn't seem like anything has been addressed in the Find function. Unfortunately for us, I doubt that the Find function will be improved any time soon, as you and I very well may be the only two people in this whole forum who would make use of it in the way you described.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

#1: No. It still records channels you don't receive.

profbobo, looks like a No, No, No answer to your questions.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

ad301 said:


> From reading here (I no longer have an r15 myself), it doesn't seem like anything has been addressed in the Find function. Unfortunately for us, I doubt that the Find function will be improved any time soon, as you and I very well may be the only two people in this whole forum who would make use of it in the way you described.


Add me in. I do not think the R15 development staff even understand what the Tivo Wishlists can do and sadly, how customers use it. But I refuse to believe only a few Tivo customers use this functionality.


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## profbobo (Jan 22, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> #1: No. It still records channels you don't receive.
> 
> profbobo, looks like a No, No, No answer to your questions.


Nice. 

It looks like there have been one or two software updates since I dumped the R15.

<sarcasm>Looks like progress.</sarcasm>

Also, I hated the searching for satellite popup during storms even if you were watching a previously recorded show.

The following is just my opinion. YMMV

I'm just shocked that DirecTV released the R15. I understand the business decision to have their own DVR. Not a problem for me. Go ahead DirecTV; make your own DVR.

But look at all the material out there they could of used for a design reference. TiVo, ReplayTV, Windows MCE, PC based software, cable, Dish, etc. I mean come on. TiVo and Replay came out in 1999.

DirecTV was a leader in the DVR game. They had a dual tuner TiVo box. Granted it is older TiVo software.

So they make their own DVR and the R15 is the result. I think they set themselves back 2 or 3 years in the DVR game. The way people used to complain about the Dish DVR and cable DVRs. That is now happening to DirecTV and I just don't think it had to be this way. They could have avoided this.

Was there ever any market research done? Did they ever look at what worked and didn't work with other DVRs? They had a chance to start from scratch with 5+ years of DVR knowledge out there at their disposal.

I think the bugs will end up being worked out and it'll be an okay to fine DVR. But I also think some of the design decisions are horrible. And those won't be corrected.

Okay, I'm done now. I just wanted to vent. I talked to the CSR when I switched from R15s to R10s about how much I hated the R15. I'm sure upper management is shielded from bad comments though.

DirecTV Upper Management: So how is the R15 doing?
Employee: Great, everyone loves it.
Upper Management: So no one has any issues? Anything we can do better?
Employee: Nope, it's a giant success.

Okay, now I'm done.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

The truth is that DTV went from having the best DVR available for SAT or Cable to having the R15. I agree with your assessment of DTV now being 2-3 years behind the DVR game.

At least my DTivos will be working for some time.


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## ad301 (Mar 30, 2004)

Wolffpack said:


> Add me in. I do not think the R15 development staff even understand what the Tivo Wishlists can do and sadly, how customers use it. But I refuse to believe only a few Tivo customers use this functionality.


Ok, you make three.  
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. If you use or rely on tivo wishlists, like myself or profbobo, then the r15 is basically just another generic dvr, roughly equivalent to the Motorola 6412 running iGuide software (except that the 6412 does HD). The similarities are striking. I'm hoping that by the time the HD dvr is released by D*, they may have made the necessary improvments to the Find function which would make it roughly equivalent, or even better than, tivo wishlists. (Yes, the wishlists are not perfect, they could be improved upon.) I have no basis for that hope, other than wishful thinking, but until the tivo series3 is released, I am not going anywhere. After that point, it's probably off to cable for me.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

profbobo said:


> #2. The ability to record the same show title on two different channels. Family Guy on FOX, Family Guy on TOON. Not being able to record both unless you set up a timed record is sooooooooo stupid. I hated that.
> 
> Has this been fixed?


You can't set up a series link for the same show on two channels, but you can record individual episodes without doing a timed/manual recording.

In other words, if you set a series link for Family Guy on FOX, you could still go to individual listings of Family Guy on TOON and press the R button to record them. You just can't get the R)) going on TOON.

Not sure what you meant by "timed record", so this may or may not help you out.

Carl


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## ghstbstr (Apr 23, 2006)

I haven't had any problems/issues with the DirecTV Plus/Philips DVR R15-300 receiver that I have. To me it is as flawless as my Tivo Series 1(that I have had since Tivo has available) and my ReplayTV 4500 series(that I have had for a year), which both of those work perfectly.
I am at loss reading all of the problems/issues from posts on this site and other sites, and I have none of these problems/issues what so ever.
My R15-300 works great, and it works as it is supposed to.


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## samo (Nov 9, 2002)

Wolffpack said:


> Add me in. I do not think the R15 development staff even understand what the Tivo Wishlists can do and sadly, how customers use it. But I refuse to believe only a few Tivo customers use this functionality.


I have been using TiVo since 1999, but I can count on one hand how many times I used auto recording on wishlist. I mostly use wishlist to search for shows and few times I used auto recording feature for the movies that I didn't want to buy on PPV or some show that I missed and wanted to catch it next time it would be on. I'm sure that there are more than few TiVo customers that use wishlist on regular basis, but there are quite a few that don't.


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

I use the wishlist a lot now on my 40 hr tivo, now that the 100 hr r15 handles the regular content. When the 40hr unit was my only one, there was no space to mess with the wishlists.


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## ad301 (Mar 30, 2004)

samo said:


> I have been using TiVo since 1999, but I can count on one hand how many times I used auto recording on wishlist. I mostly use wishlist to search for shows and few times I used auto recording feature for the movies that I didn't want to buy on PPV or some show that I missed and wanted to catch it next time it would be on. I'm sure that there are more than few TiVo customers that use wishlist on regular basis, but there are quite a few that don't.


I only set about 10% of my wishlists to auto-record, primarily the sports teams' games. The other 90% are used to watch for programs which may interest me. If I see a match that I'm interested in, I simply set a recording. Many matches are simply ignored.

I've come to realize that many tivo owners don't us WLs at all, hence my pessimism about the future improvement of the Find feature on the r15. Too bad, really.


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## ad301 (Mar 30, 2004)

ApK said:


> I use the wishlist a lot now on my 40 hr tivo, now that the 100 hr r15 handles the regular content. When the 40hr unit was my only one, there was no space to mess with the wishlists.


ApK, I'm not sure I understand. WLs themselves take up no space at all, unless you actually record a program which a WL finds for you.


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

Right. We had too much scheduled content to mess with using the wish lists to add content that would probably fall off before we got around to it. Now that space is not at a premium, we're adding wishlists and using the thumbs buttons more to see what shows up.


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