# Info for those who lost OTA w/updates



## JimL (Dec 13, 2004)

For those who lost OTA after 4.01 through 4.03 updates... it is being worked by the Dish folks in the beta group. Just wanted to give an update for all:

I had perfect OTA until I received 4.01 as part of the beta test. None of the suggestions posted on this forum and the other one did any good. I communicated this to the beta group and received correspondence from them.

After 4.03 didn't fix my OTA I communicated again to the beta group...received correspondence from them that 4.03 was not going to fix this particular problem and they were working debug software.

I was part of TOA1 update which was used to log OTA scan actions, etc...

Now I'm being sent a "specially formatted" USB drive to get my logs from the TOA1 routines I was asked to run.

Jim


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## Volitar Prime (Apr 1, 2007)

Thanks for the update


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## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

Jiml,
Were you one of those who have been unable to get any OTA back, or like me where you lost it until a reboot?
Your fellow TOA1 user.


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## blackwhole (Apr 12, 2007)

JimL said:


> I was part of TOA1 update which was used to log OTA scan actions, etc...
> 
> Now I'm being sent a "specially formatted" USB drive to get my logs from the TOA1 routines I was asked to run.


Yes, me too. I lost OTA going from L3.66 to L4.03, unable to get it back. The TOA1 update has not solved the problem, but hopefully Dish is getting closer.

This is frustrating but at least they're working on it.


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## tsduke (Mar 20, 2007)

blackwhole said:


> Yes, me too. I lost OTA going from L3.66 to L4.03, unable to get it back. The TOA1 update has not solved the problem, but hopefully Dish is getting closer.
> 
> This is frustrating but at least they're working on it.


I don't believe the TOA1 we have is meant to fix anything. It's just logging issues for debugging.


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## blackwhole (Apr 12, 2007)

tsduke said:


> I don't believe the TOA1 we have is meant to fix anything. It's just logging issues for debugging.


That wasn't the impression I got, but it does make sense because I have yet to hear of anyone having their OTA issues solved by TOA1.

I guess we just play our parts and be patient!


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## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

blackwhole said:


> That wasn't the impression I got, but it does make sense because I have yet to hear of anyone having their OTA issues solved by TOA1.
> 
> I guess we just play our parts and be patient!


If you definitely have repeated your OTA bug, make sure you did what was in the message they sent, and then contact them. Apparently they will send you a disk to offload the information and send it back to them.


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## fmcomputer (Oct 14, 2006)

I was wondering if those of you that lost your OTA with the L4.03 upgrade were using attunators or amps to lock onto OTA with 3.65 or 3.66. I could never get a lock with 3.65 or 3.66 even using attunators or amps, so i just went back to basics, antenna with RG-6 cable. After I received L4.03 everything was great. Increased signal strength and 100% lock.. Just a thought !!!!!!!!!!


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## blackwhole (Apr 12, 2007)

tnsprin said:


> If you definitely have repeated your OTA bug, make sure you did what was in the message they sent, and then contact them. Apparently they will send you a disk to offload the information and send it back to them.


You bet, I've run that routine. They overnighted a USB key that I stuck into the front panel. It downloaded some log files, and today I am sending it back through FedEx. You would think there would be a faster way to upload data, but hey I'm with the program.

And to respond to fmcomputer, yes I am using an amplifier. I don't know much about it, the previous owner of my house installed it along with the rooftop antenna (works very well, thanks Bill!).

When I called a Dish CSR about my lost OTA, he suggested I bypass the amp too. I disagreed, reasoning that it worked fine with L3.66, and still works fine to my TV tuner. To this date I have not tried it, I still don't understand how it could be the problem.

It's not as if I'm getting poor signal--I'm getting ZERO signal, not even a blip.

Opinions?


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

The USB key thing is a pain, especially for people that have to use Fedex to send it back and forth. I end up stopping by Dish's office 2 or 3 times a week swapping keys out with them, but fortunately at the moment, their office is only about a mile out of my way to and from work. 

For what it's worth, there will eventually be a much easier way to send logs in.


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## teacher1066 (Mar 27, 2007)

I had so many problems after the 4.01 download that I finally had to ask for a replacement receiver. The new one continues to have audio level problems between SD and HD sources--with the SD sometimes having a 20db higher output than the HD channels. This is particularly disturbing when using the pip feature. Having excessively loud volumes "suddenly occur" seems to threaten the speaker cones... and my sanity. I never had any of these problems until the new download.
Interestingly enough, the new receiver seems to be a bit more sensitive on OTA channels.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I was in the better camp OTA-wise... as I only lost OTA twice after L4.01 and both times (about a week apart) I was able to front-panel reset and get them back.

Unfortunately for Dish, I have not been able to lose OTA since getting the debug software. I've been trying all kinds of combinations of going into the EPG, going to My Recordings, switching channels OTA fast or slow, scrolling vs typing direct numbers... going to channels from the EPG and back & forth between OTA and satellite.. and so far have been unable to get my OTA to go away again.

Good for me that it is working  But bad in that thus far I haven't had anything to log or report to Dish as yet.


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## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

HDMe said:


> I was in the better camp OTA-wise... as I only lost OTA twice after L4.01 and both times (about a week apart) I was able to front-panel reset and get them back.
> 
> Unfortunately for Dish, I have not been able to lose OTA since getting the debug software. I've been trying all kinds of combinations of going into the EPG, going to My Recordings, switching channels OTA fast or slow, scrolling vs typing direct numbers... going to channels from the EPG and back & forth between OTA and satellite.. and so far have been unable to get my OTA to go away again.
> 
> Good for me that it is working  But bad in that thus far I haven't had anything to log or report to Dish as yet.


Same case for me. Of course from my programming days it wouldn't be the first time debug software changed timing just enough to mask or eliminate a bug. Hopefully one of us will hit eventually and be able to send them the info needed to fix the problem.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

I think that the sensitivity of the ota tuner was turned way up to get a stable signal on all ota channels. If you use an atteunator or another amp , it will over power the tuner and you would get nothing. I notice I get 100% on a nbc station that I used to get 76 % on . The tv with an ota tuner shows still 76 % on my Nbc station using the same antenna. I also get a 70 % strength on my Abc station that used to be 76%. The funny thing is that this station will now stay working even if it drops down to 65 %. My tv ota tuner still shows 76 % strength on ABC on its meter. SO I believe the sensitivity was turned up to lock on all ota signals which would cause a problem if you used atteunators or extra amplifiers. It was also to fix the multi path issues. I notice that my Dad's terk 44 now locks in on all stations that it used to have multi path issues . HE uses the same 622 and the same antenna as I do.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Hmm... that's interesting. I am receiving all my expected channels and no pixelation or breakups even on the weaker channels... but most of my signal levels are actually down from what they used to be with L4.03, L4.01, and in some cases L3.66.

The only thing I reported to Dish, and I assumed this was intentional... is that I do not see as many steady signal levels. Mine tend to float.

For instance, channels that previously were locking in at 99/100 are now floating from 90-100 every couple of seconds it goes up and down along that range. No noticable issues with picture or sound except for seeing the signal level fluctuate.

I have one channel that prior to L4.03 read 95-100 but now is never better than 85, and had dropped to around 75 with L4.03... but that channel is still locking nicely regardless of the signal level.

To my thinking it is not so much that they turned up sensitivity as they changed how multipath is being handled. Pure speculation on my part of course... but if sensitivity was up I would expect more multipath problems and higher signal levels. In my case I'm seeing overall average of several points lower signal levels but no issues with multipath that I can tell. I have a couple of channels that are as solid at 62 as my other channels are at 92. If I didn't look at the signal level I wouldn't know the difference.


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## JimL (Dec 13, 2004)

Sorry didn't back sooner.

Received the FedEx of the USB...will be running log download routine and sending it back shortly. As stated in one of the earlier messages TOA1 is strictly for debugging purposes as I understand it, not a fix of any type. Seems there are several OTA issues they are looking at, the most severe is total loss of OTA after 4.01/4.03 and inability to get it back.

Jim


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

HDMe said:


> Hmm... that's interesting. I am receiving all my expected channels and no pixelation or breakups even on the weaker channels... but most of my signal levels are actually down from what they used to be with L4.03, L4.01, and in some cases L3.66.
> 
> The only thing I reported to Dish, and I assumed this was intentional... is that I do not see as many steady signal levels. Mine tend to float.
> 
> ...


 Maybe you are right that it is just a multi path fix , but it seems to me that the sensitivity has changed in the ota tuners. I don't know how else to explain a signal going down on the 622 but staying the same as it was before the update on my tv signal meter. The terk 44 is amplified but I would think that some people having atteunators and external amplifires added to the new software ,might cause an overload and a rejection of the signal entirely. But I am just speculating. I don't know for sure .


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## cummingsje (Mar 23, 2007)

HDMe said:


> I was in the better camp OTA-wise... as I only lost OTA twice after L4.01 and both times (about a week apart) I was able to front-panel reset and get them back.
> 
> Unfortunately for Dish, I have not been able to lose OTA since getting the debug software. I've been trying all kinds of combinations of going into the EPG, going to My Recordings, switching channels OTA fast or slow, scrolling vs typing direct numbers... going to channels from the EPG and back & forth between OTA and satellite.. and so far have been unable to get my OTA to go away again.
> 
> Good for me that it is working  But bad in that thus far I haven't had anything to log or report to Dish as yet.


Same for me here. I was able to duplicate a system re-boot, however, and reported back via e-mail.


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## Hall (Mar 4, 2004)

Mike D-CO5 said:


> I think that the sensitivity of the ota tuner was turned way up to get a stable signal on all ota channels. If you use an atteunator or another amp , it will over power the tuner and you would get nothing. I notice I get 100% on a nbc station that I used to get 76 % on . The tv with an ota tuner shows still 76 % on my Nbc station using the same antenna.


 Very good comment there. Many people did report an increase in signal strength with L4.01. We know that stations all over the country didn't crank their output power at the same time that Dish updated our software, _so something changed on the 622_. Was it nothing more than a bogey number or did they fine-tune the tuner ??


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## Hall (Mar 4, 2004)

blackwhole said:


> yes I am using an amplifier. I don't know much about it, the previous owner of my house installed it along with the rooftop antenna.
> 
> When I called a Dish CSR about my lost OTA, he suggested I bypass the amp too. I disagreed, reasoning that it worked fine with L3.66, and still works fine to my TV tuner. To this date I have not tried it, I still don't understand how it could be the problem.


 How far from the TV towers are you ?? How big (model ??) is the antenna ?? If you're less than 30 miles, you shouldn't need an amplifier unless you're in a difficult reception area.

Definitely bypass the amplifier as a test. Some amps have an on/off switch that would make it real easy !


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## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

Hall said:


> How far from the TV towers are you ?? How big (model ??) is the antenna ?? If you're less than 30 miles, you shouldn't need an amplifier unless you're in a difficult reception area.
> 
> Definitely bypass the amplifier as a test. Some amps have an on/off switch that would make it real easy !


Turning off many amps cuts the signal. Meaning he really has to bypass the amp. And if his is a preamp that's not easy as its up by the antenna.


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## blackwhole (Apr 12, 2007)

Hall said:


> If you're less than 30 miles, you shouldn't need an amplifier
> 
> Definitely bypass the amplifier as a test. Some amps have an on/off switch that would make it real easy !


I'm about 30-45 miles from the various towers. Not sure about the model of antenna, but it's about 7-8 feet tall up on top of my 2 1/2 story house. High enough that it's scary to work on. I usually had no problem with signal strength, with the exception of WWMT CBS which is the farthest away.

I will check the amp, I think it DOES have a switch. And it's in the basement, no need to climb ladders. I'll check the switch first, then if I have to it will not be too hard to bypass it. If the 622 can compensate for no amp, then it's all good.


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## Hall (Mar 4, 2004)

At your distance, you just might need the amp, but I suspect it's more to help than a "no amp = no signal" situation. 

As for the switch on the amp, I thought some could bypass the amp's internals by turning it off. Others might have a "bypass" switch. If you've got enough slack, all you need is a barrel connector to really bypass it.


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## blackwhole (Apr 12, 2007)

Hall said:


> At your distance, you just might need the amp, but I suspect it's more to help than a "no amp = no signal" situation.
> 
> As for the switch on the amp, I thought some could bypass the amp's internals by turning it off. Others might have a "bypass" switch. If you've got enough slack, all you need is a barrel connector to really bypass it.


Yeah, I can't picture the front of the amp from my office 15 miles away, but I seem to recall a switch or maybe two. If not, I have several barrel connectors leftover from when I had to undo/redo the Dish installer's work.

But that's a whole 'nother story... :nono2:

I will definitely give this a try tonight. Thanks!


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## blackwhole (Apr 12, 2007)

I bypassed the amp in the OTA line, didn't make any difference.

So we sit back and keep waiting.

I hear L4.04 is out on Friday! :lol:


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## owensjro (Mar 4, 2005)

What is the preferred method for contacting DISH about issues like this? I came home from vacation and found that I no longer can get the OTA HD channels. OTA non-HD work fine.

Tried power cycling, ran switch tests, etc. No luck. 

Really annoying since most of my timers I cared about were on these channels so I missed programs. 

Thanks,
Jim


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## Rob Glasser (Feb 22, 2005)

owensjro said:


> What is the preferred method for contacting DISH about issues like this? I came home from vacation and found that I no longer can get the OTA HD channels. OTA non-HD work fine.
> 
> Tried power cycling, ran switch tests, etc. No luck.
> 
> ...


If you haven't already try deleting all your OTA channels and then rescanning for them and see if that fixes it. This has worked for some members.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

If you are going to do that.. Delete all OTA channels, exit the Local HD Screen (Say Yes to saving your changes), reboot your 622 with a power cord reboot and then rescan your channels. That is the most extreme case but one that also has worked for some.


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