# Test drove a HR21 last night...



## RCY (Nov 17, 2005)

I have friends who just moved to D* HD and had a HR21 installed. Didn't spend a lot of time playing with it, but I did enter the "30SKIP" search for them and checked out the 30 second skip. It seemed to work well, as did the instant replay. One hurdle cleared! 

The interface was different, but IMO, neither better or worse than my DTivo. (I spent maybe 10 minutes total playing with it - just a quick first impression.) I didn't much like the PIP-ish current channel in the upper right hand corner, but I could live with it. Lack of DLB is a drawback for me, and my wife uses it daily. But I'm probably going to wait a bit to get feedback from my friends on how reliable the HR21 is for them before taking the plunge anyway. So maybe the "better than DLB" upgrade will rear it's head in the Cutting Edge software drops to give me that final nudge.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Sounds like you're right in the mainstream of DVR users... like some things but don't like others. 

Personally I like all the new HD channels, and content is my #1 consideration.


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## RCY (Nov 17, 2005)

There is certainly a lot of HD content, which is quite a draw...There were channels offered in HD that I had no idea were. (Big Ten network as an example) I need to wander over to the D* website an peruse the list of HD channels.


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## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

D* content is great. Is the HR21 that is substandard. I sorely miss the HR10-250. It wasn't perfect, but is was several levels above the performance of the HR21.


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## spunkyvision (Oct 12, 2006)

For some reason the HR21 is way slower than the HR20's. I have 4 HD DVRs, 1 HR21 and 3 HR20s ALL with 1TB drives.
2 of the 3 HR20s have external 1TB enclosures and the other HR20 and the HR21 have internal drives, all the same drive model #s. The HR21 is considerably slower. Takes 5-10 seconds to bring up Play list and also when deleting with a 60% free drive.
One of the HR20s has 10% free is extremly fast bringing up the list and deleting.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Nicholsen said:


> D* content is great. Is the HR21 that is substandard. I sorely miss the HR10-250. It wasn't perfect, but is was several levels above the performance of the HR21.


Not for me! I have actually had more problems and missed recordings on my Tivo than my HR2X's over the last year... And the only time I've missed a recording on my HR is when it was on a high risk CE....


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## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

inkahauts said:


> Not for me! I have actually had more problems and missed recordings on my Tivo than my HR2X's over the last year... And the only time I've missed a recording on my HR is when it was on a high risk CE....


I am truly curious about reports of HR21's that work "well.".

I know there is no DLB.

On my machine the Slo-Mo is useless.

It's also clear that it can't handle routine scheduling conflicts (like shows ending one minute late.) Customer service confirmed that to me.

When it searches, it reports shows on channels that you don't get receive.

And the remote (and response to the remote) is awful.

I am not saying it doesn't run. Just that when used as instructed, it's an inferior product. Better than nothing, but not up to the competition.


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## 66stang351 (Aug 10, 2006)

Nicholsen said:


> I am truly curious about reports of HR21's that work "well.".


My HR21 has been flawless since I received it.


Nicholsen said:


> I know there is no DLB.


Yep.


Nicholsen said:


> On my machine the Slo-Mo is useless.


Yep, but I have never had need for it.


Nicholsen said:


> It's also clear that it can't handle routine scheduling conflicts (like shows ending one minute late.) Customer service confirmed that to me.


What do you expect it to do in that situation. Right now it does the same thing every other DVR on the planet does. It schedules the program with the higher priority and tries to find the other at another time.


Nicholsen said:


> When it searches, it reports shows on channels that you don't get receive.


I can see why this would be annoying, but it doesn't affect me very much.


Nicholsen said:


> And the remote (and response to the remote) is awful.


I have no problems at all with the remote or the HR21s response to it.


Nicholsen said:


> I am not saying it doesn't run. Just that when used as instructed, it's an inferior product. Better than nothing, but not up to the competition.


Inferior to what, Tivo. For me it is vastly superior to the Tivo units I have used.


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## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

The HR21 records. Usually, but not always. That was never an issue with the TIVO box.

I think your comments make my point. The HR21 simply doesn't have the power features (like DLB and slo-mo) that make DVR's great. The TIVO never had a problem with one minute program overlaps.

The HR21 is only half finished. The problems with the search are a textbook example of bad product implementation. It's been two years already. When will the HR2X software be finished?

If your position is "I don't use the advanced features so I don't care if they work," that is hardly a ringing endorsement.

I just finished watching the Celtics / Piston game. Having the ultra smooth slo-mo on the HR 10-250 is amazing. The HR21 is useless in that regard. I dread the start of the football season, where the loss of DLB and slo-mo are going to be really big..

D* customers could still have all of the great features on the HR 10-250. D* choose to go another route, which is a shame.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

It has some features other boxes don't and other boxes have features it doesn't. 

That doesn't mean it's half finished. If it did mean that, then every box would be considered half finished, because none of them have every feature from every box.

And for the record, all of mine always record. In 8+ years of DVR use, I've also never used slo-mo and while I'd like to have DLB, the record workaround works just fine for my needs.


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## 66stang351 (Aug 10, 2006)

Nicholsen said:


> The HR21 records. Usually, but not always. That was never an issue with the TIVO box.


My HR21 has never missed a recording in 6 months that I have had it.


Nicholsen said:


> I think your comments make my point. The HR21 simply doesn't have the power features (like DLB and slo-mo) that make DVR's great. The TIVO never had a problem with one minute program overlaps.


To me the things that make DVRs great are the ability to watch TV on my schedule, pause live TV and instant replay. My opinion only but I highly doubt that the percentage of people that say slo-mo when asked what makes a DVR great is very big.

My HR21 has never had a problem with one minute overlaps.


Nicholsen said:


> The HR21 is only half finished. The problems with the search are a textbook example of bad product implementation. It's been two years already. When will the HR2X software be finished?


How is it half finished. My HR21 has a complete software package on it that works as advertised. They are adding features over time...many of which Tivo doesn't have at all...some that they do.


Nicholsen said:


> If your position is "I don't use the advanced features so I don't care if they work," that is hardly a ringing endorsement.


I use a different set of advanced features...some significantly more advanced than slo-mo.


Nicholsen said:


> I just finished watching the Celtics / Piston game. Having the ultra smooth slo-mo on the HR 10-250 is amazing. The HR21 is useless in that regard. I dread the start of the football season, where the loss of DLB and slo-mo are going to be really big..


The workaround for DLB on the HR2X series DVRs is sufficient for most situations. A true DLB would be useful, but I can easily live with it the way they have it.


Nicholsen said:


> D* customers could still have all of the great features on the HR 10-250. D* choose to go another route, which is a shame.


"All the great features"...you have mentioned 2, DLB and slo-mo. On my HR21 I have mediashare, one touch record, a much better GUI, a much better remote, the option to download video over the internet and more... This is just the tip of the iceberg as more features are still coming.


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## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

Maybe half-finished is harsh, let's call it not yet finished. 

I think a DVR with a program search function that doesn't work properly is not yet finished. That's not a feature comparison. That's a major programming error in a primary function that remains to be fixed.

Having a slo-mo that doesn't work is similar. The HR21 has the same slo-mo feature as the HR10-250, it just doesn't work.

The program overlap problem with the HR21 is well documented. I called customer support and was told that was simply the way the box worked. If you have found a way to work around that problem, please let us know how you did that, as it would be a big plus.

I would also point out that most product upgrades add new features, not remove existing features. I think a lot of my unhappiness the HR21 is the removal of features I really like in the HR10-250, like DLB and a usable slo-mo. 

The Cnet reviews tell a lot about how the HR2x boxes are being received. There are a lot of people who really don't like them. Some of the reviews are scathing compared to my posts. The new boxes from TIVO and E seem to be much better received by their user base. 

Based upon my experience so far, I can see why.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Nicholsen said:


> Maybe half-finished is harsh, let's call it not yet finished.
> 
> I think a DVR with a program search function that doesn't work properly is not yet finished. That's not a feature comparison. That's a major programming error of a primary function that remains to be fixed.
> 
> ...


I give CNETs reviews as much thought as I do cat poop... on anything... Not to mention, they are fairly old in their reviews...

I have working slow mo on my HR21... It satisfies me....

The searching capabilities on the HR21 not only work, but they actually have far more advanced search capabilities than the Tivos do... First, showing you all items that match a search, even on channels you don't get is done on purpose, and is not a malfunction in any way. Directv wants you to know what you are missing if you don't get every channel... I don't really like that, but that is on purpose. And have you ever used the Boolean search capabilities? They are very powerful tools that you can use to really dial in a specific search. You can narrow searches using a combination of multiple constraints... ANY, ALL, NOT, CHANNEL, and can narrow key words also to title or name. Saying the unit is inferior in search capabilities is IMHO misguided. They have mentioned that they will redo the search gui at some point so that these capabilities will be easier to use for the masses, but you can use them today...

I use several of them today for ARSLs....

Also, Have you heard of game search? If you watch sports, then gamesearch is a feature that Tivo has absolutely no response to at this time, and frankly, may not ever....


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## Stealth87 (Jan 10, 2008)

I like how I can watch a recording and search for a show or set a record at a later date. My S2 Tivo can't do that and it always drives me nuts.


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## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

inkahauts said:


> I give CNETs reviews as much thought as I do cat poop... on anything... Not to mention, they are fairly old in their reviews...
> 
> I have working slow mo on my HR21... It satisfies me....


I was referring to user reviews, not the editorial reviews.

My point is that a lot of people seem really unhappy with the HR2X. When consumers rate your product 5 and the competition 8, it's time to go back to the drawing board. The same basic collection of cranks and nut cases rate the competitors boxes as well.

The guys who styled and engineered the Edsel and the Yugo also thought their product was pretty cool until they got feedback from the users. Great products don't generate a lot of negative feedback in relation to the positive feedback. When the split seems to be running 50/50 , something has gone wrong somewhere.


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## kokishin (Sep 30, 2006)

inkahauts is extreme supporter of anything Directv - good or otherwise. Pasadena is only a 30 minute drive to El Segundo (Directv HQ). I wonder ...



Nicholsen said:


> I was referring to user reviews, not the editorial reviews.
> 
> My point is that a lot of people seem really unhappy with the HR2X. When consumers rate your product 5 and the competition 8, it's time to go back to the drawing board. The same basic collection of cranks and nut cases rate the competitors boxes as well.
> 
> The guys who styled and engineered the Edsel and the Yugo also thought their product was pretty cool until they got feedback from the users. Great products don't generate a lot of negative feedback in relation to the positive feedback. When the split seems to be running 50/50 , something has gone wrong somewhere.


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## MartyS (Dec 29, 2006)

kokishin said:


> inkahauts is extreme supporter of anything Directv - good or otherwise. Pasadena is only a 30 minute drive to El Segundo (Directv HQ). I wonder ...


Personally, I think this is uncalled for. He's expressing his opinion, Nicolsen was expressing his. To add an insinuation like you did is nothing more than a personal attack.

I, too have no problems with my HR20-700, HR21-700, HR21-100 or R15. THey record, they play back. Series links work. I can pause, fast forward, skip and do everything I want to do.

I don't have DLB. I do miss DLB, but only during football season. The rest of the year, I don't need DLB. My workaround is different. During football season I move one of my HR's next to the other, and I have two games running on SLB's so I can easily switch between the two units. No, its not DLB, yes I do want DLB, but this works for me.

I have a Series 3 TiVo as well. I like many things about it, but both my TiVo and my HR's do the same thing, albeit a bit differently, other than DLB.

So, back to my original point. There are many of us that do NOT have problems with our units. There are a number of reasons why one person might have a problem and someone next door doesn't.

But, I live in South FLorida, many miles from El Segundo. Does that lead you to any insinuation about my motives saying that I don't have problems?


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## 66stang351 (Aug 10, 2006)

Nicholsen said:


> I was referring to user reviews, not the editorial reviews.
> 
> My point is that a lot of people seem really unhappy with the HR2X. When consumers rate your product 5 and the competition 8, it's time to go back to the drawing board. The same basic collection of cranks and nut cases rate the competitors boxes as well.
> 
> The guys who styled and engineered the Edsel and the Yugo also thought their product was pretty cool until they got feedback from the users. Great products don't generate a lot of negative feedback in relation to the positive feedback. When the split seems to be running 50/50 , something has gone wrong somewhere.


The difference on consumer reviews is skewed in my opinion. My reasoning behind this opinion is simple. DIRECTV completely switched their DVR offering from Tivo to their own in house system. DISH network and Tivo have not. DIRECTV's change from Tivo automatically draws many complaints from people who love Tivo and now have no choice but to switch to the new DVR or not get the new HD offerings. Someone who is forced to change will always look for the weaknesses in what they now have and complain loudly about them while ignoring any strengths or passing them off as not that good. Of course they will also ignore any weaknesses of what they had previously.

In my opinion...and that's all it is...the added features of the HR2X series far outweigh DLB and a better implementation of slo-mo. Especially with the work around for DLB that requires 2 more button presses to set up...3 vice 1 with Tivo. In my experience with a HR20 for 18 months and a HR21 for 6 months the HR2X series has been nearly flawless. The only hiccup I had was over a year ago...right after I completely disassembled my system and moved it to a new location. After I set it up the HR20 wasn't scheduling all my series links properly. I reset the unit after watching it for a few days and have had no problems since.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

It's worth saying that the CNET review has been around for 18 months and a lot has changed in that time. Granted some things haven't but come on, it's not fair to judge the DVR by a review that old.


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## gio12 (Jul 31, 2006)

RCY said:


> but I did enter the "30SKIP" search


What's this? Enter this in the search for programs to activate something?


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

gio12 said:


> What's this? Enter this in the search for programs to activate something?


Do a keyword search for that and your DVR will change the 30 second slip button into a 30 second skip button, where you no longer fast forward 30 seconds when you hit it, it just skips right to 30 seconds ahead.


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## gio12 (Jul 31, 2006)

tcusta00 said:


> Do a keyword search for that and your DVR will change the 30 second slip button into a 30 second skip button, where you no longer fast forward 30 seconds when you hit it, it just skips right to 30 seconds ahead.


I did and nothing came up. It just said program not found.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

gio12 said:


> I did and nothing came up. It just said program not found.


That's how it should happen. Click Done and it should work. Try it.


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## ptalbot (May 14, 2008)

tcusta00 said:


> Do a keyword search for that and your DVR will change the 30 second slip button into a 30 second skip button, where you no longer fast forward 30 seconds when you hit it, it just skips right to 30 seconds ahead.


Will entering '30SLIP' change it back? (update:I did what I should have done and searched the forum to find that "30SLIP" will set it back)


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## Michael D'Angelo (Oct 21, 2006)

gio12 said:


> I did and nothing came up. It just said program not found.


You need to do the keyword search for "30SKIP"-->continue-->all-->when it finds nothing exit and it should work.


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## gio12 (Jul 31, 2006)

Michael D'Angelo;1621406 said:


> You need to do the keyword search for "30SKIP"-->continue-->all-->when it finds nothing exit and it should work.


It worked. thanks!


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

ptalbot said:


> Will entering '30SLIP' change it back? (update:I did what I should have done and searched the forum to find that "30SLIP" will set it back)


Yes.


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## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

kokishin said:


> inkahauts is extreme supporter of anything Directv - good or otherwise. Pasadena is only a 30 minute drive to El Segundo (Directv HQ). I wonder ...


I am relatively new to the board, and will let the posts speak for themselves, lest someone discover I live in a glass house. 

I can tell that many people seem very pro D*, to the point where it is hard to believe they have an open mind on these issues. Their position seems to be that you get what D* gives you, D* is a leading edge company and their product is way better than what the competitors have. Yada Yada Yada.

The CNET users reviews are constantly updated, and they are scathing. I have avoided quoting them as some of them are a bit inflamitory. (e.g.., _the HR21 is a P.O.S._)

I have an open mind. I am truly disappointed in the HR21, but am a long-time D* customer and have no desire to leave. I would like a better DVR.

In my opinion, the HR2x unit is intended to be much more palatable to the networks and advertisers than the TIVO units. Why would anyone implement a slip when everyone wants a skip, etc. It would be easy for them to license a TIVO box, they just choose not to do so.


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## evan_s (Mar 4, 2008)

Nicholsen said:


> Why would anyone implement a slip when everyone wants a skip, etc.


Call me crazy if you want but I prefer the 30 second slip to a 30 second skip. The slip goes by quick enough but still allows me to see enough of what is happening to tell when I've gone 2 far forward and replay to skip back a few seconds instead of just finding out that I'm a minute back into the show after a commercial break. I don't see any reason why they can't have a much easier to find way to change the behavior but the skip is there for those that want it.

Is it perfect? No.

Does it have every possible feature? Obviously not.

Does it work well for me? Yes

Does it have enough features that I'm happy with it? Yes.

Is it worlds better than the Motorola POS I had from Comcast. Definitely.


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## scrybigtv (Jan 25, 2008)

Would someone explain "DLB" to me? Thanks in advance.


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## Michael D'Angelo (Oct 21, 2006)

scrybigtv said:


> Would someone explain "DLB" to me? Thanks in advance.


DLB=Dual Live Buffers

You are able to pause a program on one tuner and switch to the 2nd tuner to watch something else on that one. Than pause the 2nd tuner and go back to the first one.

A lot of people uses this feature on sports so they can watch two games.


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## scrybigtv (Jan 25, 2008)

Thanks, Michael. Doesn't Dish have PIP/or split screen capabilities in its new HD DVR? That would be an even more attractive feature than DLB, wouldn't it?


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## direfan (Jan 21, 2003)

spartanstew said:


> It has some features other boxes don't and other boxes have features it doesn't.
> 
> That doesn't mean it's half finished. If it did mean that, then every box would be considered half finished, because none of them have every feature from every box.
> 
> And for the record, all of mine always record. In 8+ years of DVR use, I've also never used slo-mo and while I'd like to have DLB, the record workaround works just fine for my needs.


Actually it is half-finished. With all the CE releases that fix some things and break other stuff. This is not a finished product. they should have waited 2-3 years before they released it. Meanwhile they could have worked with TIVO to produce the next generation TIVOs. By not following that strategy, they have left a lot of unhappy customers in the wake.

And yes, the remote absolutely sucks. I hate it with a passion!


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## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

Direfan, I completely agree with you regarding the remote.

IMHO, it is the worst remote on any consumer electronic device I have ever used. It looks cheap (when was the last time you saw a remote in white) and it feels cheap (the button action feels really, really cheap, like a bad GM car from the 80's). Even worse, the unit is slow to respond to commands from the remote.

With respect to the remote (which is the only part of the system you actually touch) TIVO gets an A and the HR2x gets a C.

I think those of us who are unhappy with the HR20 and HR21 units should not be shy to register constructive complaints. I am sure D* monitors the boards for feedback, and nothing will change unless users speak up.


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## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

evan_s

I have heard other people express a preference for the slip (which I changed right out of the box). I have found I dislike the HR21 skip function. I am going to try the slip for a while, just to see if it works better than the poorly implemented skip.

I know that will make the advertisers happy, as they are clearly formatting commercials to make an impact during the 1-3 to seconds they appear when slipped or "skipped." on a DVR


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## PAJeep (Mar 8, 2008)

direfan said:


> Actually it is half-finished. With all the CE releases that fix some things and break other stuff. This is not a finished product. they should have waited 2-3 years before they released it. Meanwhile they could have worked with TIVO to produce the next generation TIVOs. By not following that strategy, they have left a lot of unhappy customers in the wake.
> 
> And yes, the remote absolutely sucks. I hate it with a passion!


Fortunately for Directv the average user is concerned about 2 things. Can you record and pause live tv. In which both are yes. The majority is not going to base there decision on who's dvr can correctly do slow motion or watch two shows at the same time.


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## rustynails (Apr 24, 2008)

There is no comparison betweeen E's Vip 722 and D's HR21. The 722 is hands down the best dvr. The 722 has everything you could want in a dvr. Having said this, the Hr21 does record shows and I have had no problems with it. I still don't like it though! The remote doesn't even feel right in my hands with the Hr21. I am with D because I couldn't get sat 129 with E so I just go with the better programming with D.


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## direfan (Jan 21, 2003)

PAJeep said:


> Fortunately for Directv the average user is concerned about 2 things. Can you record and pause live tv. In which both are yes. The majority is not going to base there decision on who's dvr can correctly do slow motion or watch two shows at the same time.


Since you quoted me, I am responding. I did not mention slow motion or DLB though DLB would be awesome. My issue is the repeated problems with the software:

1. The repeated blank recordings. Although of late that issue seems to have been fixed. However, the fact that I missed so many shows, means the dvr is not performing its basic task which is to record the damn show.

2. The "searching for satellite in 2" message. I have to trick the dvr by recording on the blank searching for satellite and thus switch the tuners. Because there is no way to switch tuners other than locking one by setting it to record.

3. The awful awful remote that is so unresponsive.

4. The fact that when you set up a recurring manual recording, you don't have a "keep at the most" option. So if you don't manually delete shows, they will just keep recording.

5. The fact that shows like the office and 2 and a half men are consistently missing the first 30-60 secs.

In spite of all these issues, I would still never go back to cable. DTV is by far my favorite provider, I jsut want them to have a kick ass DVR and right now they are not even close.

D


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## 66stang351 (Aug 10, 2006)

Nicholsen said:


> Direfan, I completely agree with you regarding the remote.
> 
> IMHO, it is the worst remote on any consumer electronic device I have ever used. It looks cheap (when was the last time you saw a remote in white) and it feels cheap (the button action feels really, really cheap, like a bad GM car from the 80's). Even worse, the unit is slow to respond to commands from the remote.
> 
> ...


This is one thing where I have completely different opinion. If I were to rate the DIRECTV remote and the Tivo peanut, I would say B+ for DIRECTV and D- for the peanut. When I first got the Tivo I had it was the most non-intuitive remote I had ever used. At that point I had never used one the DIRECTV style remotes. At that time the Tivo was the only DVR I had and it was the least used receiver in my house. The two main reasons it wasn't used were the remote and then the user interface with the remote probably being the bigger of the two reasons.


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## brahuna (May 27, 2005)

Nicholsen said:


> I am relatively new to the board, and will let the posts speak for themselves, lest someone discover I live in a glass house.
> 
> I can tell that many people seem very pro D*, to the point where it is hard to believe they have an open mind on these issues. Their position seems to be that you get what D* gives you, D* is a leading edge company and their product is way better than what the competitors have. Yada Yada Yada.
> 
> ...


I agree with you 100 percent. I have used TiVo's with DirecTV, Charter Cable DVR's and now the HR21. The only thing that doesn't make me switch back to Charter is the prices. The HR21 is pure junk and I don't see how anyone can defend it.

My dad upgraded to the HR21 also and can't stand it. He hates that there are no DLB's, the constant reboots to fix trickplay lockups, and the slowness.

Also had a friend switch from Dish DVR to a HR21 and can't stand it either.

People say they gained more features. What...MediaShare, VOD? This is pure junk too. MediaShare is too slow to do anything with. I can see the VOD feature since they need to compete with cable. However, I want a DVR that is a rock solid DVR first and foremost. Then work on the other features. I have had 8 TiVo's over the years and never had one issue with them. Now using 3 HR21's, not one is even close to rock solid.

In my opinion, DirecTV missed the boat on this one.


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## RCY (Nov 17, 2005)

This thread is a classic example why I've been waiting. Seems the HR2x works great for many, but is a disaster for others. As far as the whole interface issue, I couldn't care less - I can adjust to that. But missing recordings is just not acceptable to me. And two years after introduction, some folks are still missing recocrdings. Maybe it's all install issues as some have indicated. But what do you do when you get "Frick and Frack" installing your setup. (That was the quote from both of my friends who just had their HR21s installed. In both cases, they said the installers were lazy and mostly clueless.)

Eventually, I'll probably take the plunge with some HD cable/sat provider. I've been with D* for 7 years and would like to stay with them. Now I have two setups I can observe and see how it goes. Thanks for all the input! (both positive and negative)


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## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

66stang351:

You indicated in an earlier post that you have never had a problem with the program overlap bug on the HR 21:

"_My HR21 has never had a problem with one minute overlaps._"

I asked the following:

_"The program overlap problem with the HR21 is well documented. I called customer support and was told that was simply the way the box worked. If you have found a way to work around that problem, please let us know how you did that, as it would be a big plus."_

Are you sure you have used the box under the circumstances that reveal that problem? If so, can you tell us what you did to fix the bug? If there is a fix, I would like to know.


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## PAJeep (Mar 8, 2008)

direfan said:


> Since you quoted me, I am responding. I did not mention slow motion or DLB though DLB would be awesome. My issue is the repeated problems with the software:


No you didn't and I did not mean to imply you did. Sorry about that. I was really just replying to the unhappy customers comment.



direfan said:


> 1. The repeated blank recordings. Although of late that issue seems to have been fixed. However, the fact that I missed so many shows, means the dvr is not performing its basic task which is to record the damn show.


I have yet to experience any blank or missed recordings and hope I dont.



direfan said:


> 2. The "searching for satellite in 2" message. I have to trick the dvr by recording on the blank searching for satellite and thus switch the tuners. Because there is no way to switch tuners other than locking one by setting it to record.


Sounds like you are in need of a service call maybe? Wiring? Switch? receiver? Hopefully you get it sorted out.



direfan said:


> 3. The awful awful remote that is so unresponsive.


Can't comment on it. The few times I used it in the beginning I had no complaints but I use a Harmony 880 now. Too many devices and I can't stand having 6 remotes on the end table.



direfan said:


> 4. The fact that when you set up a recurring manual recording, you don't have a "keep at the most" option. So if you don't manually delete shows, they will just keep recording.


Being an average user I either record from the guide or set up a season pass which has worked for me every time so I cant really comment on manual recording.



direfan said:


> 5. The fact that shows like the office and 2 and a half men are consistently missing the first 30-60 secs.


I happen to record both and have noticed a tiny portion is clipped sometimes, but me personally I could care less as long as I get a laugh out of the other 29 minutes.



direfan said:


> In spite of all these issues, I would still never go back to cable. DTV is by far my favorite provider, I jsut want them to have a kick ass DVR and right now they are not even close.


I agree. About cable that is. They will never get my business again.


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## SteveInNC (Oct 8, 2007)

re: remote

I just had a failed HR20 swapped for a HR21. The remote itself doesn't particularly bother me, but I have noticed since getting the HR21 that this model is horrendously slow at times in responding to button presses; enough so that I sometimes hit a button again because it appears not to have registered the first time, resulting in double actions. The HR20 wasn't the snappiest in responding, but never felt like it was off doing something else.

I have a professional background in programming both high and low level code and device-level stuff, and did work with real-time data acquisition; for something like this, responding to the user should be near the top of the processing scheduler's priorities. Instead, it often seems like the machine is off dorking around with some internal housekeeping, perhaps updating the guide or reorganizing disk space, instead of responding to the IR input.


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## 66stang351 (Aug 10, 2006)

Nicholsen said:


> 66stang351:
> 
> You indicated in an earlier post that you have never had a problem with the program overlap bug on the HR 21:
> 
> ...


My HR21 and my HR20 work exactly the same as the Tivo I gave to my parents with respect to shows that run long and thus cause conflicts with shows in other timeslots. It schedules the show with the higher priority and looks for another showing of the lower priority show that it can record at a later time. In other words it works as advertised in exactly the same manner as every other DVR I have ever heard of. My response was to the post where you simply stated "The Tivo has no problem with one minute overlaps." I admit my response was somewhat facetious in nature, but to me a piece of electronics that is working as designed is not a problem. I also admit freely that prior to you mentioning it I had never heard of this "well documented" "bug" in the entire life of the HR2X series on this forum.


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

66stang351 said:


> My HR21 and my HR20 work exactly the same as the Tivo I gave to my parents with respect to shows that run long and thus cause conflicts with shows in other timeslots. It schedules the show with the higher priority and looks for another showing of the lower priority show that it can record at a later time. In other words it works as advertised in exactly the same manner as every other DVR I have ever heard of. My response was to the post where you simply stated "The Tivo has no problem with one minute overlaps." I admit my response was somewhat facetious in nature, but to me a piece of electronics that is working as designed is not a problem. I also admit freely that prior to you mentioning it I had never heard of this "well documented" "bug" in the entire life of the HR2X series on this forum.


TiVo will now do partial recordings as well.


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

RCY said:


> This thread is a classic example why I've been waiting. Seems the HR2x works great for many, but is a disaster for others. As far as the whole interface issue, I couldn't care less - I can adjust to that. But missing recordings is just not acceptable to me. And two years after introduction, some folks are still missing recocrdings. Maybe it's all install issues as some have indicated. But what do you do when you get "Frick and Frack" installing your setup. (That was the quote from both of my friends who just had their HR21s installed. In both cases, they said the installers were lazy and mostly clueless.)
> 
> Eventually, I'll probably take the plunge with some HD cable/sat provider. I've been with D* for 7 years and would like to stay with them. Now I have two setups I can observe and see how it goes. Thanks for all the input! (both positive and negative)


The initial installation is a *HUGE* factor with satisfaction. Getting the dish accurately aligned and securely mounted is key.

I was lucky in the draw, I guess, as my readings have always been in the mid to upper 90s. We had a major storm blow through on Sunday. Neighbors lost shingles and trees. We lost some siding. But the garage roof mounted slimline didn't budge.

As a result, I am mostly pleased with my HR20. Only one missed kiddie show recording, and two reboots in ~1 year. Love the HD content. Just wish they would add DLB to the unit.


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

66stang351 said:


> This is one thing where I have completely different opinion. If I were to rate the DIRECTV remote and the Tivo peanut, I would say B+ for DIRECTV and D- for the peanut. When I first got the Tivo I had it was the most non-intuitive remote I had ever used. At that point I had never used one the DIRECTV style remotes. At that time the Tivo was the only DVR I had and it was the least used receiver in my house. The two main reasons it wasn't used were the remote and then the user interface with the remote probably being the bigger of the two reasons.


I didn't care for the TiVo Peanut, and I can't stand the D* remote. That's why I always buy a third party universal remote. It's my interface to my entertainment world, and I (and the wife) need to be comfortable with it.


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

SteveInNC said:


> re: remote
> 
> I just had a failed HR20 swapped for a HR21. The remote itself doesn't particularly bother me, but I have noticed since getting the HR21 that this model is horrendously slow at times in responding to button presses; enough so that I sometimes hit a button again because it appears not to have registered the first time, resulting in double actions. The HR20 wasn't the snappiest in responding, but never felt like it was off doing something else.
> 
> I have a professional background in programming both high and low level code and device-level stuff, and did work with real-time data acquisition; for something like this, responding to the user should be near the top of the processing scheduler's priorities. Instead, it often seems like the machine is off dorking around with some internal housekeeping, perhaps updating the guide or reorganizing disk space, instead of responding to the IR input.


Remote response is slow. And it doesn't seem to matter what remote I use (D* or various third party) or what mode I use it in (IR vs RF). Therefore I have to assume the problem lies with the HR20, and not the remote.

And I agree, this should be a priority to be fixed. Clean up your code and move the remote input deamon to a higher priority.


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## 66stang351 (Aug 10, 2006)

ATARI said:


> Remote response is slow. And it doesn't seem to matter what remote I use (D* or various third party) or what mode I use it in (IR vs RF). Therefore I have to assume the problem lies with the HR20, and not the remote.
> 
> And I agree, this should be a priority to be fixed. Clean up your code and move the remote input deamon to a higher priority.


There are many reports of slow response to the remote for the HR2X DVRs. I don't see this on either of mine for the most part. There have been instances(once a month maybe) where there was a noticeable delay after pressing a button, but the next button press there is no delay again. I assume the cause of the delay in these instances is the DVR is performing a task in the background and it has to stop that task before responding to the remote command. Once it stops the task it waits until the system has been idle for a while before starting it up again, or runs it at a lower priority.

In normal operations the only function that is slow is channel changing, and that is standard throughout the industry when it come to DVRs.


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## bobnielsen (Jun 29, 2006)

kokishin said:


> inkahauts is extreme supporter of anything Directv - good or otherwise. Pasadena is only a 30 minute drive to El Segundo (Directv HQ). I wonder ...


You'v obviously never driven the L.A. freeways at rush hour....


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## upnorth (Jun 21, 2006)

For the life of me I do not understand why anyone would wait any longer to upgrade to a HR2X.
All the added HD content that is available thru MPEG-4 should be reason enough and the ability to record the new channels wow I am pleased.
Call me a DirecTv fanboy or whatever but what can I say I am pleased with DirecTv's channel choices and my HR20-700 has been very reliable since installed in September of 2006.
Try it you might like it.


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## STEVED21 (Feb 6, 2006)

Nicholsen said:


> I am truly curious about reports of HR21's that work "well.".
> 
> It's also clear that it can't handle routine scheduling conflicts (like shows ending one minute late.) Customer service confirmed that to me.


Please explain how your HR10 handles this as mine cannot record three programs at one time. The lower priority show would get bumped.


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## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

STEVED21 said:


> Please explain how your HR10 handles this as mine cannot record three programs at one time. The lower priority show would get bumped.


I am running my TIVO HR10-250 and the HR21 side by side. The HR21 is new, and I loaded it with the same "season passes" as the HR10-250, to see how it performed during the "transition." I record a lot of shows on Sunday (like a lot of people) and both tuners are in use during most of prime time.

The HR21 reported in the program manager that it could not record 60 Minutes. I checked (and yes this is ironic) 60 Minutes was scheduled to run 61 minutes, creating a conflict. I called D* and they said, that's just the way it works. (FYI -- This was prior to the very recent software upgrade that lets a HR10-250 do "partial recordings".)

The TIVO had no problem with this situation. I assume that it is smart enough to truncate 30 seconds off of each conflicting show as it records. This is a pretty common situation when you use both tuners, and a classic example of how immature the HR21 software is. A common problem that is dealt with smartly by the TIVO box completely befuddles the HR21.

My understanding is that the new partial recording upgrade extends this process to longer periods of time, so you might miss 5-10 minutes of a lower priority show rather than the whole thing.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Nicholsen said:


> Great products don't generate a lot of negative feedback in relation to the positive feedback.


You're right, just look at the Beta Max and the Macintosh. Look at how well they were received. I had a Beta Max when they first became available and all I heard were complaints about the length of recording and the lack of available titles at the video stores. And yet, the Beta Max put out the best picture I have ever seen on a VCR.

The Macs were put down as toys and were too expensive. And yet, all these years later, they are still the best computers for home or office use. I admit they are still relatively expensive, but they are far more dependable than Windows based computers.

I drove an Edsel quite frequently and I thought it was a step above the Mercurys. OK, the front end did look like it was sucking on a lemon, but for comfort and performance, they ran rings around Mercs. Did guzzle gas tho. Fast and handled well and the backseat was like a sofa.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

SteveInNC said:


> re: remote
> 
> I just had a failed HR20 swapped for a HR21. The remote itself doesn't particularly bother me, but I have noticed since getting the HR21 that this model is horrendously slow at times in responding to button presses; enough so that I sometimes hit a button again because it appears not to have registered the first time, resulting in double actions. The HR20 wasn't the snappiest in responding, but never felt like it was off doing something else.
> 
> I have a professional background in programming both high and low level code and device-level stuff, and did work with real-time data acquisition; for something like this, responding to the user should be near the top of the processing scheduler's priorities. Instead, it often seems like the machine is off dorking around with some internal housekeeping, perhaps updating the guide or reorganizing disk space, instead of responding to the IR input.


I have five 20s and one 21 and the 21 is definitely slower than the 20s when using the remote. All my 20/21s have remotes that are in the RF mode. You might find that mode a tad quicker.

Rich


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## Dr. Booda (Jun 18, 2007)

I've been with the HR2x series from October 2006, and can definitely say that my HR10 was more stable before I switched over. From day one with the HR2x, my signal strengths were in the 90's across all sats, my Multiswitch, wiring and BBC's were fine and checked repeatedly during service calls, and I've had five box replacements. The only thing that has changed over the years has been the software.

At first, the software was horrendous with regards to blank recordings, 771 errors, etc., but things did improve around a year ago due to all of the "stability" improvements that were sent out. However, all of that apparent stability disappeared a few months ago for some reason. Whatever was changed in the software has reverted my boxes back in time to the early days, and apparently has clipped some new users as well. Will it get better? Probably, given enough time just about any problem can be figured out. Will it happen prior to the end of my 2-year commitment? That remains to be seen.

If others love the advanced features of the HR2x versus the HR10, that’s fine. I personally just want the thing to not miss a program, not randomly reboot, and not ever show a blank recording. DLB would be great for sports viewing, but I’ll never, ever use Mediashare or VOD. I wish there was just a plain Jane box that was simply a MP4 capable HR10.

As far as the CNET user (not editorial) reviews, IMO they are more representative of the general public. This forum is more for the devotee of all things Satellite, and many users care deeply about that subject matter as evidenced by the thousands of posts made by some. I think that CNET is more for the common man, albeit one that knows how to use a computer. The even more common (basic?) man just picks up the phone to complain to the CSR’s.


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## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

Good Dr.

I second your motion. I have no use whatsoever for the whistles and bells on the HR21. Give me an HR10-250 with MPEG4 and I would be a happy man.

Well, pretty happy anyway. A 1Tb internal drive would make me really, really, happy.


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## Dr. Booda (Jun 18, 2007)

Nicholsen said:


> Good Dr.
> 
> I second your motion. I have no use whatsoever for the whistles and bells on the HR21. Give me an HR10-250 with MPEG4 and I would be a happy man.
> 
> Well, pretty happy anyway. A 1Tb internal drive would make me really, really, happy.


Lil' Nich'y :grin: ,

I agree a 1Tb internal drive would be cool, but I could have grabbed a 1Tb external at Fry's this week. Storage capacity is irrelevant without recording confidence.


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## kokishin (Sep 30, 2006)

Au contraire. I have definitely been on L.A. freeways during rush hour but thanks for the reminder. Blows! More like 90 minutes down the 110 in rush hour.



bobnielsen said:


> You'v obviously never driven the L.A. freeways at rush hour....


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## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

rich584 said:


> You're right, just look at the Beta Max and the Macintosh. Look at how well they were received. I had a Beta Max when they first became available and all I heard were complaints about the length of recording and the lack of available titles at the video stores. And yet, the Beta Max put out the best picture I have ever seen on a VCR.
> 
> The Macs were put down as toys and were too expensive. And yet, all these years later, they are still the best computers for home or office use. I admit they are still relatively expensive, but they are far more dependable than Windows based computers.
> 
> ...


I think there is little chance the HR21 will ever make the list of "great" consumer electronics products which struggled or failed due to lack of market share. The TIVO and the Mac have a lot in common (I have owned both at one time or another). The Mac is currently resurgent, and I suspect TIVO will continue to do well, regardless of what D* chooses to do.

As to the Edsel, I reserve judgment. I have an 88 Mazda RX7 convertible I bought for $2,800 that is great fun when it runs, which is about half of the time. It does turn heads, but only gets 15 mpg


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## gnahc79 (Jan 12, 2008)

I just want some fricking stability and reliability, neither of which the HR2x has mastered, unlike Tivo. All personal experiences aside, the fact that new NRs for our dvrs occur so often is indicative that DirecTV's in-house software is more like a beta than a GA build. Well that or the release team at DirecTV doesn't have a grasp of basic software release planning skills and QA.
To be fair, I can tolerate the instability of the HR2x for now....just barely . I have yet to have a blank or missed recording *fingers crossed*, but have experienced some random resets and issues when watching SpeedTV.


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## 66stang351 (Aug 10, 2006)

gnahc79 said:


> I just want some fricking stability and reliability, neither of which the HR2x has mastered, unlike Tivo. All personal experiences aside, the fact that new NRs for our dvrs occur so often is indicative that DirecTV's in-house software is more like a beta than a GA build. Well that or the release team at DirecTV doesn't have a grasp of basic software release planning skills and QA.
> To be fair, I can tolerate the instability of the HR2x for now....just barely .


The Majority of the NRs over the last year have not been for stability reasons. They have been putting in new features and once they feel that a new feature is stable they release it and start on another. There have been a few NRs that had problems, but they have been few and far between.


gnahc79 said:


> I have yet to have a blank or missed recording *fingers crossed*, but have experienced some random resets and issues when watching SpeedTV.


Hard to tell here, but are the random resets related to SpeedTV as well as the other issues. If the random resets are not channel related, but occur no matter what you are doing with the system you might want to check the temperature that your DVR is running at.

Seems strange to have issues that are isolated to one channel. Can you elaborate on what the issues are?


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## gnahc79 (Jan 12, 2008)

DVR temp is normal at 115F. The random resets are not channel related. I recall a thread somewhere discussing known issues with SpeedTV, forgot the exact details though. While recording MotoGP one time the dvr locked up and kept on recording. A RBR got everything back in order. I had a record->lock up for 12 hrs (overnight) once on ABC too. Watching the hr21 delete that show was interesting .

As for the NRs for the past year, well past 6 months for me, being new function vs. stability...other people and I would disagree. If the dvr software has such a short release cycle, it means they are fixing known issues or fixing regression caused by a previous NR. Having such a short release cycle to deliver new function makes no sense. The only major new function NR that I recall was VOD. That's the only new function that the execs and marketing dept could "sell" IMO.


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

gnahc79 said:


> I just want some fricking stability and reliability, neither of which the HR2x has mastered, unlike Tivo. All personal experiences aside, the fact that new NRs for our dvrs occur so often is indicative that DirecTV's in-house software is more like a beta than a GA build. Well that or the release team at DirecTV doesn't have a grasp of basic software release planning skills and QA.
> To be fair, I can tolerate the instability of the HR2x for now....just barely . I have yet to have a blank or missed recording *fingers crossed*, but have experienced some random resets and issues when watching SpeedTV.


Must have had different model Tivo units then you have. Got so sick and tired of hearing the wife and kids scream when the units missed recordings or autmagicly restarted in the middle of dora the explorer. The HR2X series have been far more reliable then the old HR10's. Have had them replaced via the upgrade program or the protection plan. One is left, but not to worried about that one, it is sitting in the garage hooked up to a set there so I can watch TV while working on the motorcycles.


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## gnahc79 (Jan 12, 2008)

Oh, sorry for the confusion, I meant Tivo as in the S2 Tivo box. We only recently switched from cable to DirecTV. Losing Tivo for great HD is worth it, but to say the HR2x is stable is an entirely different issue.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Nicholsen said:


> The HR21 records. Usually, but not always. That was never an issue with the TIVO box.


You didn't have the problem that almost everyone had with the HR10 when it was dropping whole channels about a year and a half ago?

I love that never comment from those trying to idolize the HR10. It has had many problems and mine became pretty unreliable towards the end.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Nicholsen said:


> I think your comments make my point. The HR21 simply doesn't have the power features (like DLB and slo-mo) that make DVR's great. The TIVO never had a problem with one minute program overlaps.


And this is just a misconception or an outright lie.

Tivo, until the software just released, had plenty of issues with overlaps. In fact, it had issues with overlaps ON THE SAME CHANNEL. The HR2x doesn't use two tuners to record overlaps on the same channel. With the HR10, if you have two shows on NBC that overlap and a show on ABC at the same time, you lost one of the shows completely. With the HR2x, it will record them all.

Time to ignore your posts as Tivo-glorifying.


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## MikeekiM (Oct 1, 2006)

First, I will admit that my HR20 has missed more recordings than my previous TiVo... But I can also say that I have missed recordings on my TiVo due to 1 minute overlaps... If the new software from TiVo fixes that, bravo!

How does it do it? How does it prioritize/identify which overlap I want to keep? If there is a 1 (or even a 10) minute overlap, how does the program know that I want the end of one show more than the beginning of another (or vice versa)?


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Nicholsen said:


> I think there is little chance the HR21 will ever make the list of "great" consumer electronics products which struggled or failed due to lack of market share. The TIVO and the Mac have a lot in common (I have owned both at one time or another). The Mac is currently resurgent, and I suspect TIVO will continue to do well, regardless of what D* chooses to do.


I didn't have particularly great experiences with TiVos and I have 5 HR20s that are quite reliable. Haven't missed a program in over a year. I have grown to really like them.

Now, the HR21 is another story. I am waiting for a service call to install in-line amplifiers and a new Slimline dish. The Case Management Group is convinced that this will solve the problems with the 21. As soon as they stabilize this 21, I intend to acquire at least two more.

Have patience, it takes a while to get used to these things. And please don't think that I am a shill for D*. A little over a year ago, I was getting ready to sue them over the performance of the 20s. The only thing that held me back was a lawsuit I was in the midst of with GM. But, they did get better and are now quite reliable.



> As to the Edsel, I reserve judgment.


You'll just have to take my word for the performance and the comfort of the Edsel. Doubt if you could find one that someone would let you drive. The backseat alone was worth buying the car for. I spent many happy evenings in the backseat of my friend's Edsel.



> I have an 88 Mazda RX7 convertible I bought for $2,800 that is great fun when it runs, which is about half of the time. It does turn heads, but only gets 15 mpg


Next time you get in that little sucker think of how difficult it would be for me to get into it. I would love to buy something like that but somewhere along the line every car made became smaller and smaller and now I have to buy a Caddie to be comfy in a car. And I am only 6'4" tall. When I started driving legally, every car I got in I had to pull up the seat. Now the salesmen come out, take one look at me and tell me to forget it. And the last time that happened, I was looking at a $65,000 Infinity. Height discrimination will be the final nail in the coffin for our society. I actually have come to envy people who are six feet and below in height.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

tonyd79 said:


> And this is just a misconception or an outright lie.
> 
> Tivo, until the software just released, had plenty of issues with overlaps. In fact, it had issues with overlaps ON THE SAME CHANNEL. The HR2x doesn't use two tuners to record overlaps on the same channel. With the HR10, if you have two shows on NBC that overlap and a show on ABC at the same time, you lost one of the shows completely. With the HR2x, it will record them all.
> 
> Time to ignore your posts as Tivo-glorifying.


Tony, I fear that we will have to put up with the "TiVo glorification" for years to come. Some people just can't let it go. I never bought an HR10 because of the price for the unit and the cost of a larger HD. A quick trip to weaknees.com should give anyone an idea of just how costly those things are, if they are still upgrading them.

Rich


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## MikeekiM (Oct 1, 2006)

rich584 said:


> Tony, I fear that we will have to put up with the "TiVo glorification" for years to come. Some people just can't let it go. I never bought an HR10 because of the price for the unit and the cost of a larger HD. A quick trip to weaknees.com should give anyone an idea of just how costly those things are, if they are still upgrading them.
> 
> Rich


And there is much to glorify... I loved my TiVo... And it was groundbreaking (people will argue that ReplayTV and UltimateTV were part of breaking ground in this space)... I was absolutely part of the TiVolution...

But I now have an HR20, an HR21, and a Sony SAT-T60 (DirecTiVo)... I use my HR20 and HR21 more often because of the access to HD content... And with the exception of a few glitches, I have really enjoy the HR20/21...

I was disappointed with the lack of updates from DirecTV on the TiVo platform... My HR20/21 seem to get updates on a frequent basis, which give me confidence that they are (1) identifying bugs and fixing them; (2) enhancing with new functionality...

Some will chalk this up to being a DirecTV fanboy/zealot... I would respond by saying that I absolutely hated the HR20 when I first got it over a year ago... It isn't me being a DirecTV fanboy... I think some that are accusing people of being blindly faithful to DirecTV need to look in the mirror and ask themselves if they are being blindly faithful to TiVo... For those that are having hardware issues with the HR20/21, I can absolutely understand your frustration, and would never accuse you of being a blind TiVo follower for those reasons...

I still love TiVo... But the HR20/21 are also great (for me)... I can't tell you how often I find myself using my TiVo and switch over to the "now playing list" and am jarred by the fact that I can't keep watching my program in the upper right hand corner...

There's a lot to love about both... But I also recognize that the HR20/21 are maturing, and as a result, still have a few kinks (which has been getting less and less)...

As I have said before, some of this is traditional change management... All change is initially bad...even good change... Because you are forced out of your comfort zone...

But again, some of this cannot be just change management if you are having hardware failures and missed recordings...for that, DirecTV needs to answer for that... I'd be pissed too!

OK...enough rambling...


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## bpratt (Nov 24, 2005)

MikeekiM said:


> First, I will admit that my HR20 has missed more recordings than my previous TiVo... But I can also say that I have missed recordings on my TiVo due to 1 minute overlaps... If the new software from TiVo fixes that, bravo!
> 
> How does it do it? How does it prioritize/identify which overlap I want to keep? If there is a 1 (or even a 10) minute overlap, how does the program know that I want the end of one show more than the beginning of another (or vice versa)?


If there is a 5 minute overlap or less, then the program that is lowest in priority will have part of it cut. If the overlap is greater than 5 minutes, the lowest priority program will not record.


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## MikeekiM (Oct 1, 2006)

bpratt said:


> If there is a 5 minute overlap or less, then the program that is lowest in priority will have part of it cut. If the overlap is greater than 5 minutes, the lowest priority program will not record.


Sweet... I love this... I wish they would incorporate this feature in DirecTV boxes...


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## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

tonyd79 said:


> You didn't have the problem that almost everyone had with the HR10 when it was dropping whole channels about a year and a half ago?
> 
> I love that never comment from those trying to idolize the HR10. It has had many problems and mine became pretty unreliable towards the end.


I have had the TIVO box for about 18 months, but never had that problem. I got the version 6 upgrade shortly after the install. Maybe I came in after the fix.

I will admit the HR10-250 had some issues. My biggest problem with the HR10-250 was occasional random restarts during recordings (which left a 5 minute hole in the program. It seemed very sensitive to power fluctuations. I put a small UPS on it (and the HR21) and it seemed to solve the problem.

I also missed the HDMI output debacle, as my unit was a later mode. I got it cheap, cheap, cheap as they were discontinued. I was using a Sony Ultimate TV before then, which I liked almost as much as the TIVO. IMHO, both were better than the HR21.


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## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

tonyd79 said:


> And this is just a misconception or an outright lie.
> 
> Tivo, until the software just released, had plenty of issues with overlaps. In fact, it had issues with overlaps ON THE SAME CHANNEL. The HR2x doesn't use two tuners to record overlaps on the same channel. With the HR10, if you have two shows on NBC that overlap and a show on ABC at the same time, you lost one of the shows completely. With the HR2x, it will record them all.
> 
> Time to ignore your posts as Tivo-glorifying.


Where I grew up calling someone a liar without some solid proof would often provoke a fight. How about we limit our fighting to important things, like whether 72 Fords are better than 72 Chevys 

The one minute overlap is petty common with competing network programming. However, I have never seen an overlap on the same network cause a problem on any of the DVRs I have used.

I never had one minute overlap problems with either my Sat 60 (Ultimate TV) or the TIVO box. While I am surmising, it appears that for a conflict of a minute or less, they just truncated both shows by 30 seconds or the lead in of the second show by up to 60 seconds. (Sometimes you might loose a little of the opening in one show).

This seems perfectly logical to me, and I was stunned the HR21 could not handle this simple and recurring problem.

Remember, extremism in the defense of superior technology is no vice!


----------



## kokishin (Sep 30, 2006)

Yeh, there is a small legion of Directv fanboys that post stuff like:
_I've never had that problem so it must be YOU,
HR2x is better than any TIVO so get over it,
YOU don't need DLB,
YOU don't need OTA,
YOU must have been rude to the CSR,
What makes YOU think YOU are entitled to discounts?
Don't report a bad install or the installer will get a charge back,
If YOU don't like Directv, then switch to cable,
YOU are hijacking this thread,
Oh, here we go again,
Never had a blank recording,
Yadda, yadda, yadda..._



Nicholsen said:


> I am relatively new to the board, and will let the posts speak for themselves, lest someone discover I live in a glass house.
> 
> I can tell that many people seem very pro D*, to the point where it is hard to believe they have an open mind on these issues. Their position seems to be that you get what D* gives you, D* is a leading edge company and their product is way better than what the competitors have. Yada Yada Yada.
> 
> ...


----------



## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

kokishin said:


> Yeh, there is a small legion of Directv fanboys that post stuff like:
> _I've never had that problem so it must be YOU,
> HR2x is better than any TIVO so get over it,
> YOU don't need DLB,
> ...


same can be said about the other side of the coin also, they being a legion of those with the opposite opinion that uses the same line. There are those that still refuses to admit that the HR10 ever had a problem and that any fault was because of the end user.

Bottom line on my side is - the HR2X IS better then the HR10 was, while I am not saying I have not had issues with it, but have been in the technology business for over 37 years and there is not one single piece of electronic gear that will not expierence problems. The HR10;s that I had and the various protection plan replacements that where sent gave me the biggest headaches I have had with electronic gear, got tired of hearing my daughter scream when it missed a recording of Dora, or decided to do a hard boot in the middle of the Wiggles, same with my wife yelling at me when it did the same exact thing on CSO or Americian Idol.

as for the line about discounts - one great thing to remember - TANSTAAFL.

Bottom line is simple - like you say - don;t like the direction that Directv is going in, then switch to a different provider that will do what you want them to do.


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## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

kokishin:

Thanks for the reply. There does seem to be a bit of shoot the messenger tone to certain of the posts on the board. 

I am always willing to complain when I think it's justified. I have also lived long enough to know life can throw you a curve ball from time to time, and which DVR box you prefer (or get to use) is nothing to loose sleep over. That's something you argue about with your friends over beer, like whether the Raiders will beat the Niners in the pre-season.


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## kokishin (Sep 30, 2006)

Nicholsen,

I like your attitude Dude!

Between the York's and Al Davis, there hasn't been anything to cheer about in a long time. I was a BIG 49ers fan when Eddie D. owned the team. Joe Montana is the greatest!

Just ignore the Directv fan boys and tell it like it is. The fan boys will try to gang tackle ya but run a screen pass or a draw play every once in a while and keep em on their toes.



Nicholsen said:


> kokishin:
> 
> Thanks for the reply. There does seem to be a bit of shoot the messenger tone to certain of the posts on the board.
> 
> I am always willing to complain when I think it's justified. I have also lived long enough to know life can throw you a curve ball from time to time, and which DVR box you prefer (or get to use) is nothing to loose sleep over. That's something you argue about with your friends over beer, like whether the Raiders will beat the Niners in the pre-season.


----------



## kokishin (Sep 30, 2006)

Similar to what Reagan said to Carter during their 1980 presidential debate:

_There you go again._



wingrider01 said:


> same can be said about the other side of the coin also, they being a legion of those with the opposite opinion that uses the same line. There are those that still refuses to admit that the HR10 ever had a problem and that any fault was because of the end user.
> 
> Bottom line on my side is - the HR2X IS better then the HR10 was, while I am not saying I have not had issues with it, but have been in the technology business for over 37 years and there is not one single piece of electronic gear that will not expierence problems. The HR10;s that I had and the various protection plan replacements that where sent gave me the biggest headaches I have had with electronic gear, got tired of hearing my daughter scream when it missed a recording of Dora, or decided to do a hard boot in the middle of the Wiggles, same with my wife yelling at me when it did the same exact thing on CSO or Americian Idol.
> 
> ...


----------



## 66stang351 (Aug 10, 2006)

Nicholsen said:


> The one minute overlap is petty common with competing network programming. However, I have never seen an overlap on the same network cause a problem on any of the DVRs I have used.


The overlap on same channel occurs if you pad your recordings. On a Tivo...at least before the recent update...if you padded your recordings and had a 3 way conflict one would get bumped every time even if only 2 channels are involved. On an HR2X if 2 of the shows are on the same channel it will record both on the same tuner, including the overlap caused by padding. Tivo always assigns a separate tuner to each recording.

This feature is also handy if you have two shows set on one channel with padding and you are watching live TV.


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## gb07 (Jun 1, 2008)

Obviously everyone is having a different experience with their hr21's or their hr10's. I wish I could be the one to praise the hr21, but sadly I am not. I went from falling in love with the hr10 and the added HD content to being greedy and wanting more. I ordered an hr21 and grudgingly signed up for the 2 year committment because I figured I would have directv for a LONG time so why not? This was in february. 3 months later and I am SOOO regretting that decision. Unfortunately my experience with the HR21 so far has been mostly spent looking for that sledge hammer I lost a couple years ago so I can smash the damn thing and put it out of its misery. While most of the time it records shows as expected, its the suprises it throws at you when it doesnt record something that you were looking forward to watching that gets very frustrating. I'm a NASCAR fan, so recording the races on the weekend is a must for me. That and f1, indy car as well. I've put up with the blank recordings, telling it to delete one program and it actually deleting a different one, no sound, no video, etc, like everyone else. But when it has consistently for the last three weeks recorded practice, and qualifying, but missing the race completely from the season pass, I had it and called directv. I explained politely all the problems we have had with the machine and asked if there was anything that could be done. Was told that they could send someone out, but at my expense. Then offered me a 5.99/month service plan. I told them I wasnt going to pay MORE money for something that has never worked right since I bought it, and was told that it WAS working right, and besides, my machine was out of warranty( I couldnt have missed the expire date by more than a few days). On top of that, there is no option to just cancel directv because I am locked in to a two year committment. They DID offer to send me a new box, which I have recieved and installed. So far it seems better, but still wont schedule the Nascar race right, so I still have to babysit it every week.

I know this strikes a nerve with some people, but I LOVED the TIVO box. I got used to this new interface, and fact is there ARE some things that it does better. For example I love being able to hit record twice to schedule a season pass rather than go through all the menus of the tivo box. But the tivo box WORKED. The only time I missed a show was either in bad weather or if I didnt schedule it right as far as the priority. It worked like clockwork and I never had to baby sit it. I'm sorry for the people that didnt have as good an experience with it but I did, and I wish Directv would at least give us a choice. I'd gladly pay more money for a box that WORKED. I love the added HD content but if they dont get the box fixed or give us a tivo I will leave Directv and never look back. And I learned my lesson; never sign a committment contract.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

wingrider01 said:


> same can be said about the other side of the coin also, they being a legion of those with the opposite opinion that uses the same line. There are those that still refuses to admit that the HR10 ever had a problem and that any fault was because of the end user.
> 
> Bottom line on my side is - the HR2X IS better then the HR10 was, while I am not saying I have not had issues with it, but have been in the technology business for over 37 years and there is not one single piece of electronic gear that will not expierence problems. The HR10;s that I had and the various protection plan replacements that where sent gave me the biggest headaches I have had with electronic gear, got tired of hearing my daughter scream when it missed a recording of Dora, or decided to do a hard boot in the middle of the Wiggles,





> same with my wife yelling at me when it did the same exact thing on CSO or Americian Idol.


My wife is still yelling at me about the random reboots on the SD TiVo that she uses



> as for the line about discounts - one great thing to remember - TANSTAAFL.
> 
> Bottom line is simple - like you say - don;t like the direction that Directv is going in, then switch to a different provider that will do what you want them to do.


I agree with all your comments, but what the devil is TANSTAAFL?

Here's one for you: URAIATOTWM. Try not to get too upset if you figure this one out.

Fortunately, I have a dandy little acronym dictionary and now know that TANSTAAFL stands for: There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch. Without the dictionary, I would have never figured that out. Of course there are free lunches. I ate (and drank) free in Chicago, New York, at the Indy 500 and many other places when in uniform. In some houses of ill repute I even... But that's a story for another place and time.

There was a time in this country when a serviceman rarely paid a bill in a bar or restaurant. My son told me the same thing happened to him in many places in the States and, oddly, overseas. We might say that with eternal vigilance and the willingness to fight comes the occasional, well deserved, "free lunch".

This rambling discourse is my way of repaying you for forcing me to use my acronym dictionary. I meant no offense.

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

MikeekiM said:


> And there is much to glorify... I loved my TiVo... And it was groundbreaking (people will argue that ReplayTV and UltimateTV were part of breaking ground in this space)... I was absolutely part of the TiVolution...


Well you missed the Ultimate TV DVR, which, I thought and still do, was a better DVR (when it worked) than the TiVo (when they work properly and are not constantly rebooting or destroying hard drives).



> Some will chalk this up to being a DirecTV fanboy/zealot... I would respond by saying that I absolutely hated the HR20 when I first got it over a year ago... It isn't me being a DirecTV fanboy... I think some that are accusing people of being blindly faithful to DirecTV need to look in the mirror and ask themselves if they are being blindly faithful to TiVo... For those that are having hardware issues with the HR20/21, I can absolutely understand your frustration, and would never accuse you of being a blind TiVo follower for those reasons...


Like you, I despised the 20s at first. Now I can't imagine life without them.



> I still love TiVo


Can't get rid of mine fast enough.



> But again, some of this cannot be just change management if you are having hardware failures and missed recordings...for that, DirecTV needs to answer for that... I'd be pissed too!


I think that a lot of the "hardware" problems people have are in their systems, not wholly in the DVRs. I just had my dish replaced with a Slimline and my problems have (I hope, oh how I hope!) disappeared.

Rich


----------



## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

kokishin said:


> Nicholsen,
> 
> I like your attitude Dude!
> 
> ...


I have pretty thick skin, so it will take more than that to run me off.

Two short Joe Stories -

1. I passed him in the crosswalk downtown in 2002. He looked great. Put a smile on my face for a week. Amazingly, the guy is not very big at all. He looks like an average joe 

2. Right before "The Catch" (which beat the Cowboys with time running out), Joe organized the huddle and said to Dwight Clark, "Clark, did you see that cheerleader on the end in the south end zone. Man that is worth checking out." Everyone laughed, the rest is history.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

kokishin said:


> Yeh, there is a small legion of Directv fanboys that post stuff like:





> I've never had that problem so it must be YOU


That one drives me nutz too.



> HR2x is better than any TIVO so get over it


This one I agree with.



> YOU don't need DLB,
> YOU don't need OTA


I don't think anybody NEEDs either, but I see no reason why they shouldn't have them if they want them so badly.



> YOU must have been rude to the CSR


Hard not to be rude when they don't listen and talk over you. Poor training and poor pay makes for poor CSRs.



> What makes YOU think YOU are entitled to discounts?


Love the discount. Take everyone they offer.



> Don't report a bad install or the installer will get a charge back


Still a lot to be desired in the installs. Again poor training and low pay make for a high turnover rate. Does seem to be getting better lately.



> If YOU don't like Directv, then switch to cable


Well, you'd think some of the posters would switch back, wouldn't you? Don't see that happening very often tho.



> YOU are hijacking this thread


I get accused of that from time to time. Don't do it intentionally and I am usually quite surprised by the accusation.



> Oh, here we go again


You can't blame people for getting sick of the same thing over and over.



> Never had a blank recording


Another statement that I doubt and am quite sick of seeing.



> Yadda, yadda, yadda...


Used to go out with a girl that used that constantly. Didn't last long with her. It was funny on Seinfeld, but in real life it gets old quick. Used to go out with a singer that constantly sang to me. That one didn't last too long either. I felt like I was in a musical every time I went out with her.

Rich


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## MikeekiM (Oct 1, 2006)

rich584 said:


> I think that a lot of the "hardware" problems people have are in their systems, not wholly in the DVRs. I just had my dish replaced with a Slimline and my problems have (I hope, oh how I hope!) disappeared.


Funny you should mention this... A couple of months ago, I had constant problems with my DirecTV service (I'll call it that, because too many automatically assume it is an HR20 problem)...

They came out and ended up trying a bunch of stuff... The first thing they were thinking was receiver issues...but was able to rule that out... Then they replaced my multiswitch AND LNBs on my slimline... Still had the problem... This was troubleshooting that happened over days...not in a single service call...

The solution that finally worked? They went to the roof and snipped off about an inch of RG6 from the tips of the cables where the dish run joins the home run hoping that it was corrosion on the connectors... When the snipped them, both of us looked at the tips, shook our heads and both agreed that there was no visible corrosion at all, and we both expected that this would not fix the problem, but that it was a worthwhile attempt since we had started to run out of options... I have not had any problems since...

A big problem can be caused by something very small...


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## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

rich584

I agree that the HR2x boxes unfairly catch some blame for install, dish, and cable problems. 

However, I also think the Hr2x boxes are much more finicky about dish alignment, cable runs, and connector quality than the older DVRs. (This is based upon comments and reports I have read on the board as a long-time lurker.) Still, D* bears the responsibility to make the total "system" work. 

In my experience, the install work ranges for very good to unbelievably bad. That's no way to insure customer satisfaction. I understand D* is going to a new install provider, which hopefully will improve the quality control. It must cost them a lot of $$$ to troubleshoot the bad installs.

My day wouldn't be complete without one shot (above the belt) at the HR21.  What idiot decided the HR21 needed a dongle? Will that go away at some point? Is there a reason the dongle function couldn't have gone on board in the box? It just seems like one more bad design choice.


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## MikeekiM (Oct 1, 2006)

Nicholsen said:


> rich584
> What idiot decided the HR21 needed a dongle? Will that go away at some point? Is there a reason the dongle function couldn't have gone on board in the box? It just seems like one more bad design choice.


I can completely understand to some extent why the dongles (I am assuming you are talking about the B-Band Converters) are necessary for the earlier units (like the HR20)... I'll chalk it up to poor planning...

But I agree here... Why is it that the B Band Conversion can't be built into the receivers now? Very odd indeed...


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Nicholsen said:


> In my opinion, the HR2x unit is intended to be much more palatable to the networks and advertisers than the TIVO units. Why would anyone implement a slip when everyone wants a skip, etc. It would be easy for them to license a TIVO box, they just choose not to do so.


Out of the box, Tivo didn't have a 30 second _anything_. And without cracking open the box, the backdoor 30 second skip code would have to be re-entered every time the box was rebooted. Compare that to the HR2x, which has 30 second slip right out of the box, and for those who want 30 second skip instead, the code only has to be entered once. How can you possibly say that Tivo's way is better?


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

kokishin said:


> Just ignore the Directv fan boys and tell it like it is.


You are so blinded that you don't even realize that you're an anti-DirecTV fanboy. You've even accused people of being DirecTV employees, which is a classic anti-DirecTV fanboy trademark.


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## MikeekiM (Oct 1, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> Out of the box, Tivo didn't have a 30 second _anything_. And without cracking open the box, the backdoor 30 second skip code would have to be re-entered every time the box was rebooted. Compare that to the HR2x, which has 30 second slip right out of the box, and for those who want 30 second skip instead, the code only has to be entered once. How can you possibly say that Tivo's way is better?


+1

I agree... Out of the box, the TiVo "30 second skip" button is really a skip to end button, isn't it? Or is it a "skip to tick" button? I forget... Pretty useless if it is a skip to end button, but that's where my money is on, if memory serves me well...

As others have said, I am a bit mixed on the skip versus the slip... I have caught many season television previews with the slip that I would have missed with the skip... That said, I still have my receivers on skip for some reason...


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

MikeekiM said:


> I agree... Out of the box, the TiVo "30 second skip" button is really a skip to end button, isn't it? Or is it a "skip to tick" button? I forget... Pretty useless if it is a skip to end button, but that's where my money is on, if memory serves me well...


If you're watching live TV in the buffer, it'll take you to live. If you're watching a recording, I think it does skip by ticks. But I've had it set to 30 second skip since I got the damn thing, so I really don't remember how it acts in a recording.


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## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

Jeremy W said:


> Out of the box, Tivo didn't have a 30 second _anything_. And without cracking open the box, the backdoor 30 second skip code would have to be re-entered every time the box was rebooted. Compare that to the HR2x, which has 30 second slip right out of the box, and for those who want 30 second skip instead, the code only has to be entered once. How can you possibly say that Tivo's way is better?


The skip function draws a lot of attention and criticism from the content providers. I think TIVOs decision not to implement it "out of the box" is understandable.

I find the need to occasionally reset the TIVO skip annoying, but it doesn't happen very often.

I find the HR21 skip to be annoying, and have to use it several times an hour regularly. Hence, it is a very annoying. In fact, It is bad enough that I am experimenting with the slip (which has some pros and cons).

The HR21 skip function is a kludge. It just doesn't work very well. The TIVO skip works perfectly. The fact that the TIVO skip is undocumented is not a problem for me. It's like a lot of good things in life. It takes some effort to find. But it's worth it.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Nicholsen said:


> The HR21 skip function is a kludge. It just doesn't work very well.


What is wrong with it? In my experience, it works exactly like the 30 second skip on my Tivo.


----------



## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

I have three complaints with the skip:

1. TIVO has am automatic backup adjustment the allows for the time (2-3 seconds) it takes you to review and push the button. 6 skips is exactly 3 minutes. On the HR21, you get 3 minutes and 18 seconds. If you are skipping six 30 sec commercials, this is a big deal.

2. The HR 21 freezes the picture for 2-3 seconds after a skip, but starts the sound immediately. I find this annoying. The TIVO goes live almost immediately, and the sound comes on with the picture.

3. The HR21 really doesn't like to do 4-8 skips quickly. It sometime locks up momentarily, and you get 3-7 instead (or occasionally a jump to the beginning of the program!). This is a major part of the problem with responsiveness to the remote that needs to be fixed. If there is one button I want to work immediately when I hit it, no matter how many times in a row, the skip button is the one.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Nicholsen said:


> The HR 21 freezes the picture for 2-3 seconds after a skip, but starts the sound immediately.


My HR21 doesn't have this problem. I can see how that would be annoying, though.


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## bpratt (Nov 24, 2005)

Jeremy W said:


> My HR21 doesn't have this problem. I can see how that would be annoying, though.


Then your HR21 is different than my two. I agree with Nicholsen, the 30 second skip on the HR10 is a much better implementation than on the HR2x.

One of the reasons TiVo did not implement 30 second skip as the box was delivered is because ReplayTV held the copyright on the 30 second skip. Once D* purchased ReplayTV, they also purchased the copyright for the 30 second skip.


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## RCY (Nov 17, 2005)

Jeremy W said:


> My HR21 doesn't have this problem. I can see how that would be annoying, though.


I agree with this. My friend's HR21 that I set the 30 second skip up on seemed to work exactly like the 30 second skip on my DTivo. No difference.


----------



## MikeekiM (Oct 1, 2006)

rich584 said:


> Well you missed the Ultimate TV DVR


No I didn't... I mentioned it in parens...



rich584 said:


> Can't get rid of mine fast enough.


Really... No love for TiVo, eh?


----------



## kokishin (Sep 30, 2006)

Jeremy,

There is just something about you that makes me chuckle. I respond as necessary to other fanboys, but for reasons beyond my understanding, I just don't have it in me to joust with you. You're obviously a smart kid. Perhaps I appreciate your passion even though you can be a little over the top at times.



Jeremy W said:


> You are so blinded that you don't even realize that you're an anti-DirecTV fanboy. You've even accused people of being DirecTV employees, which is a classic anti-DirecTV fanboy trademark.


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

bpratt said:


> One of the reasons TiVo did not implement 30 second skip as the box was delivered is because ReplayTV held the copyright on the 30 second skip. Once D* purchased ReplayTV, they also purchased the copyright for the 30 second skip.


We had 30 second skip in the HR20 well before DirecTV purchased ReplayTV.


kokishin said:


> There is just something about you that makes me chuckle. I respond as necessary to other fanboys, but for reasons beyond my understanding, I just don't have it in me to joust with you. You're obviously a smart kid. Perhaps I appreciate your passion even though you can be a little over the top at times.


Thank you? :lol:


----------



## kokishin (Sep 30, 2006)

No thanks necessary, but you're welcome just the same.



Jeremy W said:


> We had 30 second skip in the HR20 well before DirecTV purchased ReplayTV.
> 
> Thank you? :lol:


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

MikeekiM said:


> Really... No love for TiVo, eh?


No. Tired of them. And over the years that I owned them, I spent far too much money on them. My six 20/21s have cost me practically nothing and adding an eSATA is far cheaper than purchasing a programmed HD from some website and if you do it right, you never lose money on an eSATA.

Don't you find the 20/21s more interesting than TiVos? And far more aggravating when they don't work correctly, of course. With a TiVo, the problems were usually hard drives gone south. Easy, but expensive to fix. And, I never had a reason to go hunting on the Internet for info on the TiVos. Didn't know this forum existed before I got my first 20s.

Rich


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## MikeekiM (Oct 1, 2006)

I have to admit to really enjoying these HR20/21s... 

Two problems I am having with them at the moment...all having to do with my HDMI switch (I am assuming)...

When I switch to my HR20, I have to turn the HR20 off and then on (my belief is to establish the HDMI handshake...but not 100% sure)... When I switch to my HR21, I dont have to turn off/on, but the colors are competely washed out, and I have to change the channel to something other than the current display setting (i.e., if it's on 720p, I need to change it to a channel that is 480p or 1080i). When I change it back, all the colors are fine...

Don't know if you've ran into this issue at all... I think I fixed the second problem by turning off "Native Mode"... But my first issue is still there... 

Again, I don't think this is an HR20/21 issue, as much as it is an HR20/21 on an HDMI switch issue...


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

MikeekiM said:


> I have to admit to really enjoying these HR20/21s...
> 
> Two problems I am having with them at the moment...all having to do with my HDMI switch (I am assuming)...
> 
> ...


Two questions: Are you aware that there have been reports of 20s not working properly with HDMI switchers? I don't remember what thread that was on, you'd have to do a search. The other question is: What kind of TV do you have?

I keep all my 20/21s in the Native mode and have no problems such as you have reported. Have you tried not using the switcher and seeing if you can duplicate the problem?

Rich


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## MikeekiM (Oct 1, 2006)

rich584 said:


> Two questions: Are you aware that there have been reports of 20s not working properly with HDMI switchers? I don't remember what thread that was on, you'd have to do a search. The other question is: What kind of TV do you have?
> 
> I keep all my 20/21s in the Native mode and have no problems such as you have reported. Have you tried not using the switcher and seeing if you can duplicate the problem?
> 
> Rich


No, I was not aware of the reports that the 20s don't work with switchers...

That said, mine are working fine at this point... I switched back to native mode...that was not the issue... What I did was program my harmony remote to do a quick "Power Off", followed by a "Power On" (after a 2 second delay)... This forces the HDMI handshake, and I am up and running fine...

I keep my DVRs on 100% of the time (or more accurately, not in stand-by)... A quick flip of the switch to standby and back on solved my problem nicely...

As for your second question, I have two displays running off the switch... Both Sony's... I have a Sony SXRD in one room, and a Bravia in the other...


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## Bronco70 (May 14, 2008)

MikeekiM said:


> No, I was not aware of the reports that the 20s don't work with switchers...
> 
> That said, mine are working fine at this point... I switched back to native mode...that was not the issue... What I did was program my harmony remote to do a quick "Power Off", followed by a "Power On" (after a 2 second delay)... This forces the HDMI handshake, and I am up and running fine...
> 
> ...


I have an HR-21 and had been using it with a Gefen 3x1 switch. If I turned on the pj with the HR-21 input already selected the result was a washed out / color cast image. Switch to another input and back to the 21 and image normal. Run direct from 21 to pj: no problem.

Switch gone now, it's job taken over by an Integra DTC-9.8 pre-pro. 

Joe


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

MikeekiM said:


> No, I was not aware of the reports that the 20s don't work with switchers...
> 
> That said, mine are working fine at this point... I switched back to native mode...that was not the issue... What I did was program my harmony remote to do a quick "Power Off", followed by a "Power On" (after a 2 second delay)... This forces the HDMI handshake, and I am up and running fine...
> 
> ...


The reason I asked about your TVs was that I know that Sony Bravias are one of the problem sets that have been identified by D* regarding HDMI use. I had the same problems with two Sony Hi Def sets when using HDMI and switched to component wires and the problems were instantly resolved.

Rich


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## MikeekiM (Oct 1, 2006)

rich584 said:


> The reason I asked about your TVs was that I know that Sony Bravias are one of the problem sets that have been identified by D* regarding HDMI use. I had the same problems with two Sony Hi Def sets when using HDMI and switched to component wires and the problems were instantly resolved.
> 
> Rich


Darn it... I wish there was a better way of finding out about this stuff pre-purchase... But you never get "down and dirty" until you start using this stuff with other components and accessories...and by the time you discover an incompatibility...it's too late...

I am running HDMI under my house, and it would be a PITA to run component video and a separate audio cable under the house... I could do it...but I am not sure it is worth it for me... I might just have to deal with the situation until it gets painful enough for me to want to crawl under the house again...


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

MikeekiM said:


> Darn it... I wish there was a better way of finding out about this stuff pre-purchase... But you never get "down and dirty" until you start using this stuff with other components and accessories...and by the time you discover an incompatibility...it's too late...
> 
> I am running HDMI under my house, and it would be a PITA to run component video and a separate audio cable under the house... I could do it...but I am not sure it is worth it for me... I might just have to deal with the situation until it gets painful enough for me to want to crawl under the house again...


And to make it worse, the problem seems to lie with Sony and not D*. All the other HDMI sets I own (four Panny plasmas) and have tried all worked fine with HDMI. All three of my Sony DVD upscalers work perfectly with the Pannys in the HDMI mode (you have to use HDMI for the upscalers to work).

I actually traded a 40" Sony with DVI (used a DVI to HDMI adapter) to a contractor for work done in one of my family rooms. Just wanted to get rid of it.

It would be nice if D* put a disclaimer on the 20/21s stating that all TVs might not work correctly in the HDMI mode. D* is well aware of this problem.

Rich


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

In the "for what it's worth" dept., my Sony Bravia is working fine with HDMI using a monoprice HDMI switch.


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## MikeekiM (Oct 1, 2006)

ATARI said:


> In the "for what it's worth" dept., my Sony Bravia is working fine with HDMI using a monoprice HDMI switch.


Mine is working...how "fine" it's working is a different story...

So I have a completely workable system at this point...even with the Bravia... It's just that I have those two problems that I mentioned above that I do have a workaround for at this point...


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

MikeekiM said:


> Mine is working...how "fine" it's working is a different story...
> 
> So I have a completely workable system at this point...even with the Bravia... It's just that I have those two problems that I mentioned above that I do have a workaround for at this point...


Didn't mean my post as a dig, just that the problem may not be your TV, but your HDMI hardware. Checkout www.monoprice.com. Great products at great prices.


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## MikeekiM (Oct 1, 2006)

ATARI said:


> Didn't mean my post as a dig, just that the problem may not be your TV, but your HDMI hardware. Checkout www.monoprice.com. Great products at great prices.


Sorry...didn't take it as a dig at all... I was just clarifying that mine works too 

Just a few lingering issues... Sorry if it appeared that I was being defensive...that was not my intent at all...


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

ATARI said:


> In the "for what it's worth" dept., my Sony Bravia is working fine with HDMI using a monoprice HDMI switch.


Some work correctly, some don't. I happened to purchase two that didn't. Count your blessings.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

ATARI said:


> Didn't mean my post as a dig, just that the problem may not be your TV, but your HDMI hardware. Checkout www.monoprice.com. Great products at great prices.


I was going straight from HR20s to the TVs.

Rich


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