# Question regarding aligning dish



## rlambert7 (Feb 7, 2006)

I have to move my dish. I thought I read a post on this board or on "forums.directv.com" that you can't use the R15 to align the dish, but you have to use the standard receiver. Is that correct?

I'm also thinking of getting rid of my standard receiver. I had been using it as a "backup" to record "The Young and the Restless" in case it failed to record on my R15. TY&TR has not failed on my R15 for months now, and I seldom use it for anything else. If I get rid of the standard receiver, and you can't use the DVR to align the dish, is there some kind of "tool" you can use to align the dish? If there is such a tool, is there any particular one that might be preferable over others?


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

The R15 (as of 10B8 software, have not tested it with 10C8) looks for a satellite signal during it's initial bootup, and if it does not find one, it locks out that tuner. As a result, if your dish is close enough that you are getting something, even if it is a poor signal, then you can peak the signal with the R15. But, if your dish is not close enough, then the R15 won't see a signal even if you subsequently get the dish aimed directly and perfectly at the satellite, until you do a reset.

I believe I verified the same behavior with the D11 standard receiver.

If you have an older standard receiver (or older dvr), even if it is not currently active, you should still be able to use it to align your dish.

Otherwise, you can invest anywhere from about $30 to over $200 for a satellite signal meter that you can use to align the dish. Most do not know what satellite you are looking at, and will give you a signal reading even if you are pointing at a totally wrong satellite that does have a signal coming out of it. As a result, you still need to know where to aim your dish, and can use the signal meter to align for best signal, then test using your DirecTV receiver (including R15 but you have to do a reset) to make sure you are on the correct satellite. If necessary, you can further peak the signal using the R15 or other receiver.

Check solidsignal.com as one (of many) source for signal meters. Camping and RV websites also have them.

Carl


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## rlambert7 (Feb 7, 2006)

carl6 said:


> The R15 (as of 10B8 software, have not tested it with 10C8) looks for a satellite signal during it's initial bootup, and if it does not find one, it locks out that tuner.
> Carl


Thanks for that info. I found a place from which to order a "satellite meter". It says that it gets its power from the receiver. Will it still get power if the receiver has locked out the tuner?


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

I think so, but am not absolutely certain. I don't think I specifically tested for that.

Carl


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## TigersFanJJ (Feb 17, 2006)

rlambert7 said:


> Thanks for that info. I found a place from which to order a "satellite meter". It says that it gets its power from the receiver. Will it still get power if the receiver has locked out the tuner?


As Carl said, I'm pretty sure it will still power the meter. However, be prepared to curse a lot as it is a pain to get it right using one of those types of meters. As far as I'm concerned, the Birdog is the only way to go. But they aren't cheap ($350-400).


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## rlambert7 (Feb 7, 2006)

TigersFanJJ said:


> As Carl said, I'm pretty sure it will still power the meter. However, be prepared to curse a lot as it is a pain to get it right using one of those types of meters. As far as I'm concerned, the Birdog is the only way to go. But they aren't cheap ($350-400).


Just out of curiousity, how do the D* folks typically align a dish, i.e. max out the signal? There were two D* guys doing my installation. Before they "called in" my access card they went to the "squawker" screen using the standard receiver they were hooking up. They communicated via their cell phones. The guy inside kept "squawking" to the other guy, "86, lock it! 85, lock it! 86, lock it...." I guess the guy on the roof eventually did "lock it".


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## TigersFanJJ (Feb 17, 2006)

rlambert7 said:


> Just out of curiousity, how do the D* folks typically align a dish, i.e. max out the signal? There were two D* guys doing my installation. Before they "called in" my access card they went to the "squawker" screen using the standard receiver they were hooking up. They communicated via their cell phones. The guy inside kept "squawking" to the other guy, "86, lock it! 85, lock it! 86, lock it...." I guess the guy on the roof eventually did "lock it".


It depends. In your case, the guys worked together using (in my eyes, anyway) the unprofessional method. Yes it can be done that way. But I look at it the same as taking your car to the shop to have a flat repaired and all they do is put a plug in it. It works, but it isn't the professional way to do it.

As for myself, I run all of my cable. Then I connect an additional 4' or so cable (with one of the push on F-type ends on it) to the lnb with the other cables. If there is an open port on the lnb, I go ahead and put the retaining screws through the lnb. I max out my signal on the birdog, lock it down, pull my extra cable out of the lnb, and clean up. Then I set up the receivers and activate. With the birdog, I never have to turn up the tv and open a window, call the customer and have him stand by the tv, or anything like that as the receivers are always in the mid to high 90 range when I get finished.


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## Nosey (Mar 12, 2006)

from experiance trying to tune the r15 with a finder, there is power on both tuners, even though the receiver locks them out, so a finder will work, you just have to reboot and hope that you are a) on the right sat and b) have it tuned in close enough to get a good signal, when using a regular receiver and playing, the r15 would not turn on the tuner with a signal below 40 (if I recall)


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## rlambert7 (Feb 7, 2006)

TigersFanJJ said:


> ...As for myself, I run all of my cable. Then I connect an additional 4' or so cable (with one of the push on F-type ends on it) to the lnb with the other cables. If there is an open port on the lnb, I go ahead and put the retaining screws through the lnb. I max out my signal on the birdog, lock it down, pull my extra cable out of the lnb, and clean up...


Wow, that's very clever, but now I've got a few more questions. You seem to sort of hint at something...You say, "If there's an open port on the LNB...", but what if there is not an open port? I don't know for sure, because I haven't taken apart my dish, yet, but I'm going to guess I have only 2 ports (the installers ran 2 cables from the LNB to a multiswitch, and then from the MS, 2 cables to my R15 and 1 to my standard receiver. If there were more than 2 LNB ports, they would not have needed a MS, right???)

Anyway, here's what I was thinking of doing. Run all of my cables, but leave 1 of the 2 cables coming from the MS not connected to the LNB, and leave the retaining screws off of the LNB. Then, run 1 short cable to the LNB, and use it to do the alignment. Then pull off the LNB, disconnect the short cable, connect the one I from the MS I had left off, and then lock down the LNB with the retaining screws. Would that work? (Hmm, maybe I should lock down the LNB while I'm doing the alignment, then remove the retaining screws, disconnect the short cable, connect the 2nd cable from the MS, and then lock down the LNB, again???)


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## TigersFanJJ (Feb 17, 2006)

rlambert7 said:


> Anyway, here's what I was thinking of doing. Run all of my cables, but leave 1 of the 2 cables coming from the MS not connected to the LNB, and leave the retaining screws off of the LNB. Then, run 1 short cable to the LNB, and use it to do the alignment. Then pull off the LNB, disconnect the short cable, connect the one I from the MS I had left off, and then lock down the LNB with the retaining screws. Would that work? (Hmm, maybe I should lock down the LNB while I'm doing the alignment, then remove the retaining screws, disconnect the short cable, connect the 2nd cable from the MS, and then lock down the LNB, again???)


That's it. The only thing is that you would have to connect that one cable (the one you didn't connect to the lnb) to your meter so that it will power up. That's another luxury of the birdog meter - self powered. And with the cheaper meters, you want to verify that you do indeed have signal strength *BEFORE* you lock it down and clean it up, as you will probably need to fine tune it a little.


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## rlambert7 (Feb 7, 2006)

TigersFanJJ said:


> That's it. The only thing is that you would have to connect that one cable (the one you didn't connect to the lnb) to your meter so that it will power up....


Well, I guess I would eventually have figured that out.  Thanks for all that help


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## rlambert7 (Feb 7, 2006)

I am just about ready to relocate my dish, but I thought I would get an "Angle Finder" to use as a confirmation to the angle scale on the dish support. I thought I'd see what the Angle Finder read before I moved the dish.

So, here's the dumb question: Is the "arm" that supports the LNB perpendicular to the "plane" of the dish? The reason I ask is that the "arm" is the only substantial thing I can place the Angle Finder against. My dish is supposed to elevated at about 47 degrees, and that's about what the angle scale on the dish support reads. However, when I attached the Angle Finder to the [LNB] arm of the dish, it reads about 25 degrees. Of course, perhaps I need to use the "complement of 25", but that would be 65 degrees (90 - 25 = 65). I sort of thought the "eleveation" angle was measured from the horizon. I'm confused.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

The elevation of the dish is actually where the focal point on the dish is looking into the sky - the signal comes from the satellite, bounces off the dish and into the LNB assembly.

It is typically somewhat higher than where the center of the dish is aimed, or where the LNB arm is pointed. There is no actual physical component on the dish that is pointing at the satellite other than a tiny portion of the curved surface of the dish at the exact correct point.

Using a separate angle finder like you are, measure whatever is convenient, then use the same measurement technique and value at the new location. You should be okay.

However, if your mounting pole is correctly installed and is plumb, then you should simply NOT change the elevation (or slew if it is a multi satellite dish) adjustments. Leave everything locked down where it is at. Move the dish to the new location and put it on a properly plumbed mast and do your azimuth alignment and you should be good to go.

Carl


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## rlambert7 (Feb 7, 2006)

carl6 said:


> ...Move the dish to the new location and put it on a properly plumbed mast and do your azimuth alignment and you should be good to go.
> Carl


That sounds like good info. Just to be clear though, when I said I was moving my "dish", I meant I would be moving every bit of hardware that was used to mount it where it is, currently. So, that includes the "foot", mast, dish, etc. So, I take it I should be able to replumb the mast without unlocking the nut on the "angle scale". And, assuming it was plumb in the first place, and assuming that I do just as good a job of plumbing the mast, then the "dish" should still be pointing to the same elevation, right?


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

Yes, if you are plumb now, and end up plumb after the move, you should be good to go.

Carl


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## rlambert7 (Feb 7, 2006)

carl6 said:


> Yes, if you are plumb now, and end up plumb after the move, you should be good to go.
> 
> Carl


Well, I don't think it was plumb before. My elevation should be 47º. My dish was at 50º (the way the DTV guys locked it). Here's my whole story of moving the dish today (as Johnny Carson used to say, "Are you ready for this?"):

I designed and constructed my own "mounting plaform". I disassembled my dish, and mounted the foot and mast on my new platform. I have a small [13"] TV. I fashioned a box I could put it in, and hoisted the TV (and my small "standard" receiver) onto the roof of my mobile home.

There was about a 5' long "pigtail" coming from the dish the way the DTV guys installed it. I connected that to my cheapy satellite finder meter, and that to my satellite receiver. I had pre-aligned the dish to the azimuth (I had drawn a line on my platform according to the azimuth for my location), but I left the elevation set to the point where the DTV guys had previously locked it.

There was not enough signal to "fire up" the satellite reciever (said "searching for satellite signal" on the TV). So, I reset the elevation to 47º. Interestingly, after I did that the angle finder I had attached to the arm read what it did at the old location. Then, I twisted the dish several degrees to the east. The satellite finder started squealing like crazy, and the TV "came to life", too. I went to the "signal meter" screen , and noticed I was at about "92". I twisted the dish a bit more to the east, and got it up to "96". I quit at that point (the brutal heat wave we been experiencing for over a month was really getting to me). I had just enough left in me to connect the cables coming from my R15 to the LNB.

*Question. *I seem to recall that when DTV installed by dish, receiver, and DVR, that they used the "standard receiver" to peak the signal, and I'm almost cetain they did that BEFORE they called DTV to activate my "cards". Does that sound right?

The reason I ask is that about a week ago I called DTV to cancel my "standard reciever" (it had gotten to the point where we were not using it), however, I get to keep it because they say I "bought it"--I didn't know that. Anyway, perhaps it is not actually cancelled yet, because when I said [above] that my TV "came to life" it was on CBS. Would I still have been able to use the "signal meter" screen if my receiver was actually cancelled?


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## AnonomissX (Jun 29, 2006)

the signal meter in each box works even if the receiver is not activated.


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## TMullenJr (Feb 23, 2006)

When they disconnect a receiver, the programming may remain active for a short time. I had one working for a couple of weeks before it stopped.


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