# Some PVR 721 and software version 175 info



## curtisjackson (Apr 7, 2005)

In case it might help the rest of you, the following is my experience. If you have definitive knowledge that anything I say below about Dish is incorrect, please correct me. I'm only going to report what actually happened to me, and what they told me.

The morning after the 175 upgrade, I noticed that my recordings from the night before were chopped into pieces. I also noticed that I could not view channel X while recording on channel Y. There were other symptoms; they all boiled down to a frequent but intermittent loss of signal on one tuner.

I called Dish, and we figure out together that I had both tuners recording shows at 3am the night before, so I didn't get the upgrade and was still at version 175 (CHECK YOUR VERSION!). Because this was a major incompatible upgrade, I was having problems. And, because they didn't want people screwing with their receivers during this massive upgrade, they were only spooling it down from the satellite at 3am (the software update screen said "no update available"). The cure was to disable all timers (so both tuners would be free) and leave my receiver plugged in but powered off all night. It would wake up at 3am and grab the update.

Well, it didn't grab the update. It remained at 174. I called back, and they said that it could never get the update now, and they'd have to send me a replacement unit. My, what good planning/engineering on their part. I got my replacement unit yesterday, it was also at version 174 and, after I set it up, it said no upgrade was available. I called Dish, but after being on hold for 15 minutes, when we checked software update again, it was available and started downloading. The tech told me that after setting up a new unit "you have to watch channel 101 for a while". I presume this is talking-down-speak for "it takes a while for the receiver to realize from the satellite stream that there is an update", but I'm guessing there.

Things worked fine for a couple of hours, until I started recording a movie at 6:20pm, then at 7pm another recording timer kicked off. This caused the new 721 to crash. Hard. I eventually gave up and held down the power button.

Then things worked OK until 4am, when I had only one thing recording. It started at 3:20am, but 1 minute early, and it ended 41 minutes into the recording, or exactly 4am. None of my subsequent timers worked, and the box was locked up so badly when I woke up this morning that it wouldn't even power on; I had to hold down the power switch again.

I braced myself at 9am this morning when I had one movie recording and another started recording at 9am, expecting the same crash as the night before, but it worked fine. I have no idea how stable, or not, this piece of garbage is now. If it even looks at me funny again, I'm going to call Dish and tell them about all of its antics.

I don't know about you folks, but I am very tired of Dish's blatant incompetence, and I am even more tired of their smokescreen. I'll encounter a problem like the phantom timer conflict, look on the Internet, and see where a dozen people or more have called Dish about it, which means many more have called and not posted about it on the Internet. And every single time, with every single problem, Dish claims it is not a known problem. That is no way to run a business, as anyone in the software industry can tell you. The companies that win respect and keep their customers are the ones who go out of their way to be honest with customers and address problems quickly.

I'll quit ranting. Maybe this info will help someone. If anyone knows anything else, please post or email me directly.

Thanks,

Curtis Jackson


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## curtisjackson (Apr 7, 2005)

In my previous message, I said "I didn't get the upgrade and was still at version 175".

That should have read "still at version 174". Sorry for any confusion.

Curtis Jackson


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## 23collector (Feb 10, 2005)

I just purchased a 721 but have not installed or activated it yet.

Now I'm scared to!


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## finniganps (Jan 23, 2004)

23collector said:


> I just purchased a 721 but have not installed or activated it yet.
> 
> Now I'm scared to!


Don't be scared - the 721's are great. I've had mine for a year and LOVE it! Activate it, you won't regret it.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

I shelved mine for the moment and activated a 522. It seems pretty gpood some minor audio sync troubles..

my 721 was unusable due to crashing


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

The 721 has been a pretty good receiver for me but had its run of the mill bugs when it first came out and had some last year as well with me having to reboot it in order to do all the functions.


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## curtisjackson (Apr 7, 2005)

Well, my 721 has crashed hard twice in the last 3 hours. This new software rev is CRAP!

I am going to try to work with Dish technical support, but if they are not VERY responsive, and if their solution (if any) does not actually work, and fast, they are going to lose a customer of many years. I'll go to ANYONE but Dish; their incompetence has finally reached my breaking point.

Curtis Jackson


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## curtisjackson (Apr 7, 2005)

More Dish incompetence, fresh off the support phone:

After 35 minutes on hold, with only a brief respite to have my call redirected, I finally got hold of a tech who was supposedly in their special DVR support department.

He searched and searched his support info after I told him all the details about the 4 crashes I'd experienced in the last 48 hours. Then, WHILE I WAS ON THE PHONE WITH HIM, THE RECEIVER CRASHED. The screen went black and about 5 seconds later the rebooting screen appeared with the Dish logo. But it wouldn't even reboot -- after a long long time, the tech finally had me unplug the unit. He then did something on his end, then had me plug it back in. After the receiver booted back up, he had me read him all the system info. 

Then (AND THIS IS THE BEST PART), he had me change my remote address from 1 to 2. Reason? A neighbor might have a Dish remote on address 1, and when they turn their receiver on or off, my receiver gets the power toggle signal and turns itself off. I asked, "OK, I see how my neighbor's remote could turn my receiver off. But how could it make my receiver crash and try to reboot?" He had no answer, and said I could call back Monday or Tuesday to see if my problem had become a known problem and if they might be working on a solution.

I have a different solution. I am going to shop for another solution, ANY other solution, except Dish Network. I don't really care, within reason, what supposed functionality I have to lose or how much extra I have to pay. Anything that works will be infinitely better than what these clowns are peddling.

I don't even remember how long ago I became a Dish customer. 8 years, perhaps? It takes a lot to shake loyalty like that, but they've managed it.

Curtis Jackson


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Our brand new 522 has crashed 5 times since activation, changes its mode operation so it misses records and is basically not working

E KNOWS ITS GOT A PROBLEM, so much software spooled at once what boxes do you think they will fix first?


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## larrystotler (Jun 6, 2004)

Since their s/w updates last week, I have seen numerous problems that were "fixed" simply by unplugging all receivers, letting the switch reset and then re-running the check switch. It's obviously an irritating situation for the subs, and they really need to do something about it.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Neither my 721 or 522 was fixed by pull plug do switch test.

Did you notice the phone message now recommends pulling plug?

Not long ago people trashed me for that saying power button reset was thew way to go


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## larrystotler (Jun 6, 2004)

A switch reset requires ALL receivers to be unplugged at the same time. Did you try that?


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## SpencerKat (Apr 24, 2002)

Well, I've joined the car wreck, AKA the 721 fiasco with the 175 SW spool. Over the past few days I've been reading about other people's problems with 175, but, like driving past a car accident, I felt sorry for those involved, but at the same time I was glad that I wasn't one of them.

Now I'm bloodied and battered. Last night I was watching, delayed, a movie (program A) that was still recording. Half an hour into program A, a timer attempted to fire for program B. Up popped a "timer conflict" message. The 721 seemed to think it had only one tuner and therefore could not record program B since program A was already being recorded? After fiddling around trying to get program B to record, I inadvertently wound up stopping program A.

When I looked at the program guide, it showed that program B was being recorded, but when I looked at the PVR screen, program B did not appear. I could not stop program B from being recorded because part of the 721 must not have recognized it as being recorded, and when I tried to start recording program B, the 721 would not do so because, apparently, another part of the 721 recognized it as already being recorded. Ultimately, program B was not recorded. The 721 is truly a schizophrenic machine. I'm going to start calling it Sybil.

Under certain circumstances, the 721 acts as though it has only one tuner - which (NEWSFLASH!!!) defeats the purpose of having a 2‑tuner machine.

As so many others here have mentioned, Dish Network apparently does only minimal software testing before spooling it to us suckers. The problems that we have been mentioning are not esoteric, rarely occurring situations; trying to record one program while watching another is a very common use of a 2‑tuner PVR. DUH!!

As I've mentioned in other posts, I've stayed with Dish Network through all of the DP7200 problems and the 721 problems for three reasons: I had been grandfathered for distant networks; I viewed Ergen as the underdog, since Dish Network had been a distant second to DirecTV; I didn't want to give a penny to Murdoch.

Several weeks ago I received a letter from Dish Network saying that I would be losing the distant networks in early April because Congress had passed a law prohibiting anyone from receiving locals and distant networks (the war in Iraq, exploding health care costs, energy crisis, terrorism, and Congress has nothing better to do with its time than to pass a law helping a few local broadcasters?). Reason one for staying with Dish is gone.

Sometimes a company is in second place because its product and service are inferior. Reason two for staying with Dish is gone.

Reason three still exists, but our local cable company was bought out by a larger one which has been laying fiber optic cable and which has said that by this summer they will be providing higher speed Internet service, HDTV, and DVR boxes. If their price is reasonable and anywhere near what I'm paying Dish Network ($95.48/month), and if their DVR boxes have dual tuners, so long, Dish.

One more thing. When people find out that we have satellite TV, they ask me how I like it, would I recommend it, etc. I tell them that if I had it to do over, I would go with DirecTV because Dish Network's products and service are inferior. Stupid, stupid, stupid business plan on Dish's part. Focus on getting new customers, and screw the current customers, not realizing that we talk to others and recommend that they NOT buy Dish.

From what I've been reading on the forum, it appears that the 721 is not the only receiver having problems; most of the other receivers seem to be having significant problems also.

Sorry for the long post, but things have been building up inside me for quite a while.

Richard


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

larrystotler said:


> A switch reset requires ALL receivers to be unplugged at the same time. Did you try that?


Currently my 721 or 522 is on ONE dish, my 2 508s on the other dish. This after concern my 3 to 4 switch had some troubles (it didnt )

So they are completey seperate, but thanks for the suggestion


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

I WOULD LOVE to SET UP E!

Get a big bunch of us to go to friends homes the night of the next charlie chat. People who have NEVER complained!

Call in with nice softball questions, like how wonderful CC autopay is and ZING charlie on the chat!

Hey my 721 is useless why dont you beta test software. Hey ANYONE home there???

My personal opinion. Charlie has lost touch with the business he started, and may be unaware of the troubles we are having. at least if we got thru on a chat, he would be aware E has serious troubles.


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## chawk80 (Aug 10, 2002)

For the first time since I got my 721 I too have had problems since 175. Thank God I have had 17 of my 36 anger management classes.


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

larrystotler said:


> A switch reset requires ALL receivers to be unplugged at the same time. Did you try that?


 Right!

ALL: Don't confuse a switch "power-off reboot" with a receiver's "switch matrix reset".


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## marshalk (Jun 9, 2002)

Would you please define "switch matrix reset" and "power-off reboot". What they are, how they differ and how to perform each one. I suspect I know (hold the power switch down vs. pull the power plug) but the terminology is new to me.


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

The search button is your friend. There's at least a hundred threads on it.


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## ericv13 (Apr 4, 2005)

Called back again today (1.5 weeks of getting a black screen on channel 77 UNK while trying to watch live TV), this time they claimed there are no known issues with the 721 and since a bug report was already submitted to engineering there was nothing else to do.

I suggested they could refund the last month of service (which was lost due to some sort of receiver failure on 721#1, followed by a bad disk in 721#2, followed by the evil 175 on 721#3); they did give me a month credit which was nice. They are also now sending me 721#4, I'm hoping that since some people have issues with 175 here and some don't maybe I'll get lucky and another receiver will happen to work by luck.

I write s/w for a living (embedded and not) and I have some sympathy for the team trying to put out these fixes, we don't really know how they do QA and there could be some manufacturing irregularity they didn't know about causing QA to succeed on their sample units. CS is told nothing (as usual) since admitting to unfixed problems can only generate bad PR in general, I feel for them too.

*rant on*

The main inexcusable thing from my developers point of view is no mechanism to back out to a prior release, it is total crap that they push a download then leave N boxes broken for weeks or months. I realize sometimes they may make a change in service that *requires* the download, but there always has to be a window where the old and new versions both have to work (since the downloads aren't installed by everyone simultaneously). In the case of problems they could just keep any compatibility tweaks in place until things settle down. They also have almost zero in the field reliability-availability-servicability tools leaving CS to shotgunning in the dark. A simple debug/log screen (wraparound message buffer, counters from interesting places), dump facility with a summary, etc would go a long way to narrowing down problems in the field. Either they have a bunch of inexperienced people trying to code this stuff, or more likely, they are not allowed to spend time on 'frivolous' things like supportability vs the feature of the week. Depressing..

*rant done*

I think the strategy ongoing will be to insist on receiver replacement every time they say there are 'no known problems'; at least this will cost them money and maybe with enough people doing this they will take note (or they will fire me as a customer ).


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## larrystotler (Jun 6, 2004)

Actually, there is a way. They push the older version out with a new release #. However, that isn't the way E* works.........


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Part of the problem is everything is at the last minute MUST get this out for DST, or some marketing date results in nothing but grief.


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## finniganps (Jan 23, 2004)

Bob H - You don't like the 522, 721 or E*......you have yourself to blame for buying a 522 (recently) when you have had such a bad history with them. MOVE on to D* already. We ALL know you don't like E*, so quit torturing yourself and us with all the complaints about E*....sheesh, you sure like to beat a dead horse.


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## Bogey62 (Dec 1, 2002)

SpencerKat said:


> Well, I've joined the car wreck, AKA the 721 fiasco with the 175 SW spool. Over the past few days I've been reading about other people's problems with 175, but, like driving past a car accident, I felt sorry for those involved, but at the same time I was glad that I wasn't one of them.
> 
> Now I'm bloodied and battered. Last night I was watching, delayed, a movie (program A) that was still recording. Half an hour into program A, a timer attempted to fire for program B. Up popped a "timer conflict" message. The 721 seemed to think it had only one tuner and therefore could not record program B since program A was already being recorded? After fiddling around trying to get program B to record, I inadvertently wound up stopping program A.
> 
> ...


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