# NCIS - Judgement Day - 5/20/2008



## Sharkie_Fan (Sep 26, 2006)

Talk about a cliffhanger heading into next season! Since the show just ended, I'll use spoilers judiciously in case someone stumbles across this before you've seen the episode! It's a pretty good one!

I'd heard a while back the rumor that


Spoiler



Lauren Holly was leaving, plus the hints in earlier episodes that she was sick


 so the death didn't come as a big surprise. Nor did the fact that the whole episode was a result of some misstep in the past.

Sure are alot of questions heading into next season though.



Spoiler



The ones that came up first:

What's in the 'insurance policy'?

What did 'Director Vance' shred before calling the team into his office.

What exactly was Jenny suffering from? The demise was to be quick and painful.

Do the 'transfers' really stick, or does Gibbs threaten to walk without his team, or do they stay together by some other means?

Why does Vance let Gibbs & Franks 'get away with murder' so to speak, and then go all hardass on Gibbs and the rest of the team the next day?



I'm sure more will pop up as we go along. Damn, can't next season be here yet! It's been a while since I was actually this anxious/excited to see what the next season of a show was going to bring. In our house, there's never been such a thing as 'Must See TV'.... but next season's season premiere might just be Must see TV!


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## petergaryr (Nov 22, 2006)

Good episode, though I never really had much of an attachment to the cast member who "bought the farm (diner)". However, eveything you mention are very good questions.


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## Sharkie_Fan (Sep 26, 2006)

petergaryr said:


> Good episode, though I never really had much of an attachment to the cast member who "bought the farm (diner)". However, eveything you mention are very good questions.


YOu know, for whatever reason, I didn't have much of an attachment to that character either. I wasn't even that sad. And in fact, Abby's initial reaction made me laugh so hard I had to pause the show for a moment. It was just so odd.

I'll actually be more disappointed if the changes at the end of the episode stay in tact and we lose the character who was going home!

Another question that came up in this episode... which has actually been bugging me for a couple of episodes... When La Grenouille was killed, and they were investigating NCIS, the assumption along the way was that they were investigating the director. Gibbs even assumed that. And he has this nagging feeling that she did it. I think that going through the file from Fornell in this episode confirmed that suspicion that Jenny was the shooter. So why did Cort (the FBI 'handler') hand over the "your eyes only" orders to kill Grenoille and tell Vance/Fornell that he was the shooter if, in fact, he wasn't the shooter?

Was it a "scratch my back, I'll scratch your's" deal and he's going to cash in a favor from Gibbs in some later episode? Or did Gibbs go dig up some dirt on him and force him to take the blame? Or is there something completely different I'm missing?

I'm not sure we'll ever know the answer. I don't know how important it actually is to the show, on the whole, but it's still been bugging me.


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

Yes - an extreme overreaction for Abby to cry that much. When Kate was killed, Abby just sniffled, although at the time Kate only worked with Abby for a year, and the Director was there for over 3 years...

I thought there were a lot of problems with the 2-part series finale, to be honest. 

First, it takes a rich women who has serious enough credentials and connections almost 15 years to catch up with the three agents that targeted her and her accomplices in Paris?

Second, we are to believe that Jenny couldn't kill the woman, let her escape, Jenny never said anything, the woman never surfaced on anyone's radar in all those years?

Third, Vance had McGee trace the call after he speaks with Gibbs, and when a number come up on screen (P Street) he tells McGee to erase the number. Was that the Director's address? Were we supposed to know that? Would McGee not know that?

Fourth, the diner is in the desert, Franks is out back getting water. He can't hear two cars approaching so he could rush inside to assist Jenny?

Fifth, the "secret number" - Franks and Gibbs both added their own dashes in the right places, but didn't recognize it as a case file number from NIS days? At least Franks did ... eventually. Why didn't Gibbs know it?

Sixth - Tony's reactions after Jenny is killed. To me this was badly written and directed. 

Seventh - The whole cover-up of the death of the Director of NCIS, apparently with the approval of SecNav. Tony called Gibbs about Jenny's death, Gibbs called SecNav, SecNav called Vance. 

Finally, eighth - Gibb's awesome eyesight that he could look at one photo of a bullet, know something was wrong, and have Abby blow it up only then so Gibbs can see two marks that he later can match to bullets from the gun clip Jenny handed back to him. Jenny killed the Frog. We suspected already... what a lame way to close out that plot line.

No - finally #9 - the ending, with the team split up. That was direct from CSI a couple of years ago. Machinations. We'll see everyone miserable, then they'll get back together. How surprising.

For one of my favorite shows, this entire season has been a let-down. I miss Bellisario ...


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## Sharkie_Fan (Sep 26, 2006)

OK...

#1 - I'm not sure she knew who they were and why they were sent to kill her. So it wasn't so much tracking down Gibbs and Jenny, but finding out who they were and THEN tracking them down. I'm OK giving them that it took 9 years to "crack" the US government to figure out what agency and which agents were after her. I think they said a few times that the time in Paris was 1999, and that's when Svetlana became Natalia (or whatever the names were).

#2 I can buy that Jenny couldn't kill her, didn't tell anyone all these years. But nobody anywhere realized that this was the woman they were trying to kill just a few years ago? Good point, Drew.

#3 I'm assuming only Vance knew that was the Director's address. I can't recall any of the rest of the team being at the Director's house. I *think* Gibbs is the only one.

#4 I thought the same thing.

#5 I'm not sure that they didn't both know what it was very early in the game. Franks and Gibbs seem to be "on the same wavelength" most of the time... I think Gibbs realized it at the moment he saw the girls face. It was related to an old case, and the "insurance policy " was an old case number

#6 Yeah...

#7 What was the point? I guess to cover up the murder/assasination of the other lady? To ease the fears of some sort of terror attack (the assasination fo the Director of NCIS).

#8 Did he actually realize the bullet was something strange, or was he just trying to figure out who killed the frog and was checking everything, and when Abby found the strange marks, that led him to check his clip? Not that the marks weren't invisible to the naked eye, but they weren't something that they would normally look for.

#9 I'm curious what will happen with Ziva. Since she's not "NCIS", technically, she's not just shifting around. I've heard no rumors regarding her future on the show, so I'm not sure if they're replacing her or if they'll end up keeping the liason position that was "eliminated" by Vance...

And Bellisario is a genius, I think. I thought the episode was good, but it probably would have been better with Bellisario!


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## Supramom2000 (Jun 21, 2007)

Drew2k said:


> For one of my favorite shows, this entire season has been a let-down. I miss Bellisario ...


Okay Drew, did I not say this several episodes ago!!! Bellisario was "The Man"!!

I too was yelling at the TV saying "can't you hear the car coming? Can't you hear doors opening and shutting?"

What I wonder is how they come up with NCIS being involved in "hits" overseas? Isn't that CIA and sometimes Special Forces/Seals with CIA sanction?


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## Sharkie_Fan (Sep 26, 2006)

Supramom2000 said:


> Okay Drew, did I not say this several episodes ago!!! Bellisario was "The Man"!!
> 
> I too was yelling at the TV saying "can't you hear the car coming? Can't you hear doors opening and shutting?"
> 
> What I wonder is how they come up with NCIS being involved in "hits" overseas? Isn't that CIA and sometimes Special Forces/Seals with CIA sanction?


They didn't shut the doors... 

And I thought about the assasination angle this morning. Since when does NCIS (naval criminal INVESTIGATIVE service) perform assasinations? It didn't occur to me during the episode, but it crossed my mind this morning (I knew there was another question I wanted to bring up, but I couldn't remember it when I sat down to post. Old age, I guess. )


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## Supramom2000 (Jun 21, 2007)

Sharkie_Fan said:


> They didn't shut the doors...
> 
> And I thought about the assasination angle this morning. Since when does NCIS (naval criminal INVESTIGATIVE service) perform assasinations? It didn't occur to me during the episode, but it crossed my mind this morning (I knew there was another question I wanted to bring up, but I couldn't remember it when I sat down to post. Old age, I guess. )


I know they didn't shut the tailgate, but I thought the passenger doors had been shut.

My biggest problem with the charachter of Jenny was that I did not feel chemistry between her and anyone else. But I did think she stood out with this storyline and she had some chemistry with Franks. She has/had none with Gibbs.


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## Sharkie_Fan (Sep 26, 2006)

Supramom2000 said:


> I know they didn't shut the tailgate, but I thought the passenger doors had been shut.
> 
> My biggest problem with the charachter of Jenny was that I did not feel chemistry between her and anyone else. But I did think she stood out with this storyline and she had some chemistry with Franks. She has/had none with Gibbs.


I thought when Tony and Ziva drove up that all 4 doors were open... maybe not. Or maybe they were open in one scene and closed in another - wouldn't be the first time somebody had a problem like that! 

I thought Tony and Jenny had pretty good chemistry when they were following the Tony/Jean/Grenouille story line.

I came up with another question about this episode... and I'm too lazy to research it! How long has Jimmy Palmer been around? Didn't he come around after Ari shot the old assistant? And wasn't that BEFORE Ari shot Kate? So wouldn't he have been in on Kate's autopsy? He made the comment yesterday when they brought Jenny's body in that he'd never done an autopsy on a colleague.


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

Sharkie_Fan said:


> #9 I'm curious what will happen with Ziva. Since she's not "NCIS", technically, she's not just shifting around. I've heard no rumors regarding her future on the show, so I'm not sure if they're replacing her or if they'll end up keeping the liason position that was "eliminated" by Vance...


You're right - I don't know what they'll do with Ziva. For one, is she here on a "work visa", so she can be sent home ASAP if she is no longer employed by the US government? Or is she here via an Israeli diplomatic mission or council, so she can remain in the states at the Israeli embassy, for example? Could be interesting how they try to keep her here ...


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

Sharkie_Fan said:


> I thought Tony and Jenny had pretty good chemistry when they were following the Tony/Jean/Grenouille story line.


You'e right about this - they had great chemistry during that season. It was the writing, the acting, the direction - every time the actors spoke it was a mystery if they were speaking about a personal relationship Tony was having with Jean, or if it was an assignment. It was played beautifully ...



> I came up with another question about this episode... and I'm too lazy to research it! How long has Jimmy Palmer been around? Didn't he come around after Ari shot the old assistant? And wasn't that BEFORE Ari shot Kate? So wouldn't he have been in on Kate's autopsy? He made the comment yesterday when they brought Jenny's body in that he'd never done an autopsy on a colleague.


According to IMDB, Palmer has been with NCIS since the third to last episode of Season 1, so you're right - it would have been well before Ari killed Kate in the Season 2 finale.


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## Sharkie_Fan (Sep 26, 2006)

Drew2k said:


> According to IMDB, Palmer has been with NCIS since the third to last episode of Season 1, so you're right - it would have been well before Ari killed Kate in the Season 2 finale.


Only thing I can come up with is maybe Ducky didn't do that autopsy. Kate started out secret service before coming on board at NCIS, IIRC.

I think, though, that I recall some of them "visiting" her in autopsy at the end of the episode. Could be they kept her body until it could be transported somewhere else to have the autopsy done.

Could be Jimmy just wasn't brought in to assist on that one.

I don't know.. but you're right, he spent all of season 2 as a series regular with Kate, so he should have been around for her autopsy if it was done there.


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## d.glen (Aug 2, 2006)

Jethro will open the files with his new team members and it will be the old crew, just the new guy messing with them!


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## frederic1943 (Dec 2, 2006)

Drew2k said:


> According to IMDB, Palmer has been with NCIS since the third to last episode of Season 1, so you're right - it would have been well before Ari killed Kate in the Season 2 finale.


But Palmer was not in the episodes that had Kate being killed (last episode of season two) and Ari being killed (first two episodes of season three). Gerald had come back but soon left.


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## LarryFlowers (Sep 22, 2006)

I am enjoying this thread tremendously... as I do NCIS... I love seeing people get involved with a good show.

There isn't much I can add to this discussion with the exception of one very important thing... I can't believe it has been mentioned...

Ziva. Bikini. 

'nuf said!


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

> Ziva. Bikini


A great two word review of the season.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Drew2k said:


> Fourth, the diner is in the desert, Franks is out back getting water. He can't hear two cars approaching so he could rush inside to assist Jenny?


Actually, I can understand that. He's my age and his hearing ain't what it used to be - running water, a little wind blowing towards the cars...couldn't hear U2 performing 50' away.:lol:


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## makaiguy (Sep 24, 2007)

A complex and complicated couple of hours. But almost impossible to follow here in Augusta GA area because a line of severe storms running through here had the local station breaking in with weather updates every few minutes. 

Funny how they always returned to NCIS in time that we wouldn't miss the commercial breaks, though ...


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## frederic1943 (Dec 2, 2006)

The USA network is showing the first 13 episodes of NCIS on Monday the 26th (Memorial Day) starting at 6am EST. With 12 other episodes on Friday the 23rd staring at 11am EST


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## Sharkie_Fan (Sep 26, 2006)

frederic1943 said:


> But Palmer was not in the episodes that had Kate being killed (last episode of season two) and Ari being killed (first two episodes of season three). Gerald had come back but soon left.


IMDB credits Palmer as being in all those episodes.

According to IMDB, Gerald left after being shot (episode 13 of season 1, IIRC) and returned for a single episode (Kill Ari II, beginning of season 3).

It's been a long time since I saw any of those episodes, so I don't know if there were appearances by Jimmy or Gerald in any of those episodes.

We'll never know if Palmer was there or not, since we don't see Kate's autopsy. I'm pretty sure we see Kate in a freezer drawer at the very end of the episode, but after so many seasons, and twists and turns, everything kind of runs together and I can't figure out who was where, and when!

(As an aside, unrelated to this episode... what ever happened to the story line with the little cutie that Palmer was jumping in the sack with at every turn? In Closets, under autopsy tables, etc, etc)


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

She's the lawyer and she popped up a few times this season ... I'm sure we'll see her again.


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## Sharkie_Fan (Sep 26, 2006)

So I've been trying to do some homework on Jenny

In an earlier episode (Stakeout) Ducky tested some of her blood and noted that it had "elevated levels of Creatine Kinase". In this episode, he told Gibbs that her disease would have progressed and resulted in the loss of motor function.

Given those two things, there are a number of possibilites:

Muscular Dystrophy
Brain Tumor
Chorea–acanthocytosis (something related to Huntington's Disease)
Lou Gehrigs Disease (ALS. In one study, 43% of ALS sufferers had elevated CK)

I seem to recall Ducky saying that her death would have been painful and quick.

Typical adult onset MD seems to be milder and slower progressing.

I'm not sure how painful a brain tumor or Chorea–acanthocytosis would be. Certainly if one is losing motor function and mental capacities, that would be an emotionally painful death. I also don't know how fast these may progress.

I'm leaning towards ALS, I think. It's typically very quickly progressing. I believe it's also physically painful, but certainly it's excruciating mentally, being trapped inside a body that doesn't work.


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## Richard L Bray (Aug 19, 2006)

Sharkie_Fan said:


> What did 'Director Vance' shred before calling the team into his office.


Don't know; however, it was from his personnel folder that was in Jenny's safe. Makes you wonder if she had something on him that she had not forwarded to Agency files.


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## Steve H (May 15, 2006)

d.glen said:


> Jethro will open the files with his new team members and it will be the old crew, just the new guy messing with them!


Thats what I think also.


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## Sharkie_Fan (Sep 26, 2006)

Richard L Bray said:


> Don't know; however, it was from his personnel folder that was in Jenny's safe. Makes you wonder if she had something on him that she had not forwarded to Agency files.


I wondered if it was something along those lines.

My other thought, though, was that it's completely innocuous, a red herring to get us all thinking over the summer. We know he was temporarily sent to NCIS when Jenny was being investigated. Perhaps he'd put in a transfer request of some sort - unhappy playing second fiddle to Jenny, he wanted to move somewhere. With Jenny out of the picture, he gets the appointment as the Director of NCIS, and he shreds the transfer request as it's no longer needed.

My only reasoning for the shredded item being a red herring is that throughout the time Jenny was on the show, I can't think of many times when she had "dirt" on someone and Gibbs didn't know. He's pretty good at having the down low on just about everybody. And he knows Director Vance. I get the impression that they'd worked together at some point (Vance owed Gibbs money, I believe). If Vance was dirty, I think Gibbs would know.

It would just be so "un-Gibbs-like" for Vance to be dirty and Gibbs to be blindsided by the revelation.


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## eakes (Sep 22, 2007)

As this season closed, Vance 'reassigned' all of the team members. When next season starts, he continues his speech with something like: "Now that I have your attention, I am the boss and you will keep me informed of your actions in the future. If you can't do that, accept your new position and move on. Otherwise we can continue from where we are. If there are no questions, get back to work". Thus the closing of this season is resolved.


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## Sharkie_Fan (Sep 26, 2006)

I've been browsing other forums today trying to get a feel for what's in store for us for next season.

Spoilerfix.com has the episode summary for the season 6 premiere, and Tony, Ziva, and Probie all make appearances in the episode. Could be goodbyes, could be reunion, who knows. But nice to know that they're all back in SOME capacity.

Second, someone did a screen capture from the end of the episode, and here is that screen cap. Apparently, the document he shredded is a performance report, with glowing reviews, including at the bottom a line saying that he has a "recommendation for any promotion for which he qualifies".

Perhaps he's trying to disqualify himself from the position of Director of NCIS. When he was assigned temporarily, he wanted to go back home to his wife. Maybe by "losing" a good review, he can show his superiors that he's not qualified for the position and should be sent back home.

I can't really think of any other reason why he would shred that particular performance review, when it speaks so highly of him.

Interestingly, he is referred to as "Director Vance" in one paragraph. Some people say that it's just because it's easier than typig "Assistant Director Vance". The conspiricy theorists claim it's something more nefarious.


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## BobbySteelz (May 24, 2007)

just an fyi for those of us NCIS watchers...CBS is offering a new HD player...at 720p and NCIS is one of the shows they are offering full episodes of...the quality and clarity is very good (although it depends on yoru connection a bit)...but its a great way to catch up if you've missed some eps.

http://www.cbs.com/hd/


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