# Finally, a Skinny Bundle! ‘Don't Watch, Don't Pay' with DISH's New Flex Pack



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

*Finally, a Skinny Bundle! 'Don't Watch, Don't Pay' with DISH's New Flex Pack*

* Flex Pack skinny bundle offers choice, flexibility to create personalized TV package
* $39.99 per month includes core package plus choice of one of eight channel packs
* Channel packs, interchangeable monthly, include Locals, Variety, Kids, Action, etc.
* Available for new and existing DISH customers

ENGLEWOOD, Colo.--(BUSINESS WIRE)-- Today DISH launched a new way to package and purchase pay-TV. The Flex Pack skinny bundle debuts at $39.99 per month with a core package of programming consisting of more than 50 channels and the choice of one of eight themed channel packs. Customers can add and remove as many channel packs as they would like each month to best suit their entertainment needs. Individual packs feature local broadcast networks, kids, national and regional action and general entertainment, and range in price from $4 to $10 per month.

DISH launched a new way to package and purchase pay-TV with the introduction of Flex Pack.

"Our customers are frustrated with having to pay for hundreds of channels, most of which they never watch," said Warren Schlichting, DISH executive vice president of Marketing, Programming and Media Sales. "Flex Pack provides a level of flexibility and control that brings our customers closer to the ideal of fully tailoring their channel lineup."

The Flex Pack core package features more than 50 channels like AMC, TNT, USA, HGTV, E!, Cartoon Network, History, A&E, CNN, Discovery, TBS, Food Network, FX and TV Land. The channel packs include the following:

Locals Pack ($10 per month): CBS, ABC, NBC, FOX, as well as Univision and others based on the local market

Variety Pack ($6 per month): Investigation Discovery, Lifetime Movie Network, Freeform, Bravo, BET, Crime & Investigation

Kids Pack ($10 per month): Disney Channel, Disney Jr., Animal Planet, Nick Jr., Disney XD, Nicktoons, Boomerang, Baby TV

National Action Pack ($10 per month): ESPN, ESPN2, FS1, Velocity, AXS TV, Fuse, TV Games Network, TVG2, Universal HD

News Pack ($10 per month): FOX News Channel, MSNBC, Weather Channel, CNBC, FOX Business Network, BBC World News, Bloomberg, TheBlaze

Heartland Pack ($6 per month): Hallmark Channel, Hallmark Movies & Mysteries, GSN, OWN, Uplifting Entertainment, Discovery Family, Baby TV, PIXL, RFD-TV, Ride TV, FamilyNet

Regional Action Pack ($10 per month): In-market regional sports network(s), Big Ten Network, FS2, Longhorn Network, Outside TV, Pac-12 Network, SEC Network, World Fishing Network, ESPN Buzzer Beater

Outdoor Pack ($4 per month): Outdoor Channel, Outside TV, Sportsman Channel, World Fishing Network

Customers who choose not to add any channel packs can receive the Flex Pack core programming for $29.99. Premium channels like HBO, Cinemax, Showtime and Starz are also available as add-ons for an additional fee. A complete channel lineup can be found at www.dish.com.

Flex Pack includes a standard DISH receiver, free installation and a two-year price guarantee for new customers. For an additional $10 per month, new customers can upgrade their equipment to the award-winning Hopper 3. Customers must enroll in eBill and AutoPay to be eligible to receive these offers.


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## nmetro (Jul 11, 2006)

After looking at the announcement, if one were to subscribe to all the various parts; it is $106/month.

AT250 is $89.99/month to compare.

But, EPIX, HD Movie Pack, Encore are available fro a combined $17. (EPIX and Encore, plus two SD TMC are in AT250)

So, while Flex may be good for some people, it would be a hefty increase to switch to it.

All the Premiums? $50 (HBO, Cinemax, Showtime, Starz)

The cost hits at least $123.99 + $50 = $173.99. AEP is $139.99, for comparison.

And, looking at the various packs, you end up with less channels than AT250, if all the packs were subscribed to.

Finally, now that the old forum is locked, the last post in there indicated they still could not figure out how to get BBC World, without moving to Flex.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Here's the graphic that goes along with the news release as it appears on Business Wire:

[youtubehd]GL4Be95gGvs[/youtubehd]


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## xmguy (Mar 27, 2008)

Dish chat is refusing to acknowledge BBC World News. I don't mind paying 10 dollars for it. But it shows in the press release, but no where on their site yet.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Here is the new package on the DISH website:

https://www.mydish.com/flex-pack


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## xmguy (Mar 27, 2008)

If I go to News Pack, BBC World News does not show up.


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## bnewt (Oct 2, 2003)

supposedly the only way to get these channels is via the Flex pak, regardless of your current programming. So those that have at250 or aep are screwed because they won't receive them, which imo isn't that great a loss since they aren't HD


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Here are the programming options available to me right now online (I'm not showing the "International" choices as it is a long, long list nor the "Midnight Lounge":


























This doesn't mean there are no additional add-ons if you interact with a representative in an on line chat or on the phone.

Again, depending upon what programming you think you need, you might save not choosing the Flex Pack as your Core Programming. But it reflects the changing programming scene brought about by streaming.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

nmetro said:


> The cost hits at least $123.99 + $50 = $173.99. AEP is $139.99, for comparison.


A la carte is not cheaper than packages to receive the same programming.
One might be able to save money by buying less content.

BTW: As far as BBC World News goes - yes, I saw it in the press release - but until someone gets the channel I would wait and see where it ends up.


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## xmguy (Mar 27, 2008)

They finally said it was on their press release, but not showing anywhere.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Now there is a curious thing in that news release:

*Customers who choose not to add any channel packs can receive the Flex Pack core programming for $29.99.*

What I'm finding on line from the package resellers is a new customer offer of $39.99 with any one add on pack. That would, of course, reduce the Flex Pack/Locals Add On combination by $5.00. But I don't see the Flex Pack core anywhere offered for $29.99.


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## xmguy (Mar 27, 2008)

They should have made sure everything was good to go before releasing to the press. BBC World News doesn't show up on Dish's website, but does in the press release. Shows that core for $29.99, but the package online core for $39.99.


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## gor88 (May 9, 2003)

Looking at this, some subscribers can get some real savings, depending on what channels they watch. If you tend to just watch the most popular channels in the core and no sports, you'll probably benefit the most from the skinny bundle. If you have the OTA equipment and a good lock on locals, you get more savings. If I were still on Dish Network, I would definitely take advantage of that and screw the local channels out of revenue... 

Although I recently cut the cord, I have just sent the web page link to my brother, who is still on Dish Network for now. I suspect he might be interested in switching over to Flex Pack...

All in all, I think this a good move in the short term for Dish Network and has the potential to somewhat stem the tide of potential cord cutters. Hopefully, the discrepancies mentioned above will be fully clarified (and fixed, if needed).


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

This is really unfortunate for us with AT250. With paying for this pack since the beginning and always expecting all of the new general channels always being added. we no longer get that. The Bet networks as well as BBC World are not included. I have BBC World as well as France24 streaming now. I will wait this out until later in the year to if things change and the new channels are added. If not, I will go down to a smaller pack and move more of my viewing to the Roku. Even Direct TV as well as Charter Cable both have BBC World in HD in their larger packages as well as CNN International. Why pay the big price for the largest package only to find all of the channels are no longer included. I hope Dish gets plenty of flack on this one.Now, with them losing so many subs. I would think they want to keep the rest of us happy.


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## WelcomeBackKotter (Aug 3, 2016)

For existing customers, those who are out of the contracts, will Dish reps be amenable to the idea of $39.99, including locals, for two years (as new customers get) to save $5? Can Heartland be purchased under this arrangement at the discounted price of $3 for six months? Combined, this would save out-of-contract customers $8 and possibly lock it in for two years. Does anyone know more about these?


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## dennispap (Feb 1, 2007)

phrelin said:


> Now there is a curious thing in that news release:
> 
> *Customers who choose not to add any channel packs can receive the Flex Pack core programming for $29.99.*
> 
> What I'm finding on line from the package resellers is a new customer offer of $39.99 with any one add on pack. That would, of course, reduce the Flex Pack/Locals Add On combination by $5.00. But I don't see the Flex Pack core anywhere offered for $29.99.


The online 39.99 price includes core package and one add on pack, assuming most would pick the locals pack. Same price as dish


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Despite the fact that here we were discussing the Flex Pack almost a month ago and you have to believe Dish management and staff have been working on it a day or two longer, the public roll out is hardly smooth. Someone needs to call the folks over at BBC World News and work out some kind of arrangements to go along with the news release.

Beyond any oops problems, though, they really need to spend some money hiring a good marketing person to aim directly at the millennials. As I said in the other thread:



phrelin said:


> I don't know if people get just how significant this is. Dish is now offering a pretty extensive cable channel package for $34.99 that is also a streaming package with Dish Anywhere.
> 
> But you really aren't limited to the Dish Anywhere arrangement. Many, many cable channels offer streaming if you've got a subscription with a cable/satellite provider like Dish. Here's just a few channel Apps that can be used on your other devices because you have the $34.99 package:
> 
> ...


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

$29.99 Flex Pack* per the news release*
$39.99 Flex Pack plus one Channels Pack *per advertising*

*Me:*
$34.99 Flex Pack
$10.00 Locals Channels Pack
$44.99 Total

Well, being retired with time on my hands, I can't just sit back and not see what I can do. After all, I have been with Echostar/Dish since 1988 and have a clean record as a good customer. So taking the easiest route I began with an online chat with this result:



> *Dish Representative:* Hi, my name is Dish Representative. How may I help you?
> *phrelin:* I recently signed up for the Flex Pack and the Locals Add On and am being charged $34.99 and $10.00
> for a total cost of $44.99. But today I see it advertised that if you get the Flex Pack with one add on it is a total of $39.99.
> Can I get that advertised price?
> ...


Even knowing that making the suggested the phone call will require some patience, I did make the call. The representative who had an Indian accent had problems getting to my account, but explained that the offers were for new customers. Specifically the $29.99 Flex Pack deal was for having autopay, but since I have autopay he would give me the $5.00 off. He seemed to be typing and he said, so you now have the discount. I, of course, said "thank you very much."

It has not yet appeared in my online account information, so I will report back here when I'm sure I have the discount.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Well ... you should see BBC WN in the guide now (channels no longer hidden).

DISH updated their channel guide on the website. The new channels are listed only in the Flex Pack.


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## nmetro (Jul 11, 2006)

Confirmed they are not in AT250.

So DISH wants you to get less, by paying more. See my earlier post.



James Long said:


> Well ... you should see BBC WN in the guide now (channels no longer hidden).
> 
> DISH updated their channel guide on the website. The new channels are listed only in the Flex Pack.


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## levibluewa (Aug 13, 2005)

Mwdxer...my thoughts exactly. Keep the locals...I should say what's left of them...keep the minimum & go Roku Hulu (without ads) and Netflix.


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## nmetro (Jul 11, 2006)

Honestly, It is not worth $10, to the AT 250, to add BBC world. With the Pluto App I get Sky News or ITV News, dep[ending on time of day. And it is free through my Sony Smart TV.

Of course DISH could start playing hard ball and starting moving channels, now into the AT250, shown in bold on the card that James posted, thus forcing people to pay $20 to $30 more than they are now. Such an action would cause a drop in subscribers. I meanthink about it, you pay $140 a month for the AEP, which isn't Everything any more, and be told to pay for channels you already have to the tune of $20 to $30 more, because they dropped some of your channels.

Someone in DISH Marketing needs to have their head examined.

One other note, DISH may surpass Xnfinity at this rate; cost wise.


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## WelcomeBackKotter (Aug 3, 2016)

I have determined the situation with the Welcome Pack. It will continue as it is with locals for $19.99. The price may change in 2017, and I suspect it will be increased to $24.99 then. Heartland can still be added to Welcome Pack. Again, this could change in 2017. Locals are not being removed from Welcome Pack or Smart Pack, according to what I've been told by a rep. I have the Flex Pack for the past three days. I'm in the "existing customer" price of $44.99 (including locals), and I'm hoping to at least get $5 knocked off. I would hope this would be $5 off for two years, the complete promotion. I've been with Dish for three years straight, out of contract, so it might be possible to get the whole deal.


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## sabrewulf (Sep 4, 2011)

Not all that much cheaper. For what channels I would want Should just get America's Top 200. If it wern't for Animal Planet in Kids Pack could save 10 bucks there.


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## WelcomeBackKotter (Aug 3, 2016)

And as we know, Dish has historically given the six months at 1/2 off discount on Heartland add-on pack. Will this be the case with the add-ons for Flex? (Most likely not for the locals.) But possibly for, say the "news" add-on pack?


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

mwdxer said:


> This is really unfortunate for us with AT250. With paying for this pack since the beginning and always expecting all of the new general channels always being added. we no longer get that. The Bet networks as well as BBC World are not included. I have BBC World as well as France24 streaming now. I will wait this out until later in the year to if things change and the new channels are added. If not, I will go down to a smaller pack and move more of my viewing to the Roku. Even Direct TV as well as Charter Cable both have BBC World in HD in their larger packages as well as CNN International. Why pay the big price for the largest package only to find all of the channels are no longer included. I hope Dish gets plenty of flack on this one.Now, with them losing so many subs. I would think they want to keep the rest of us happy.





levibluewa said:


> Mwdxer...my thoughts exactly. Keep the locals...I should say what's left of them...keep the minimum & go Roku Hulu (without ads) and Netflix.


I'm viewing this as DISH Network Corporation, corporate home to the MVPDs (multichannel video programming distributors) Dish Network satellite TV service and Sling TV streaming TV service, making the necessary adjustments for the 21st Century reality - that streaming is where it's at in the TV business and that the so-called "skinny bundle" is the antidote for the à la carte longing. If, like me, you're not a millennial this will require a realignment of one's TV viewing comfort zone.

As I noted in one post above, it appears you can get the Flex Pack for $29.99 a month with autopay. That's a pretty good place to start, particularly if you are willing to go the $10 a month for a Hopper DVR which means you can record content. You get Dish Anywhere free which gives you online access to live streaming from your Hopper, recorded program streaming from your Hopper, and on demand streaming from a lot of channels through Dish Anywhere or from the channel's website.

The $10 Local Channels Pack add on is probably the best choice for now. But in 2017 one will have to look hard at the Hulu live streaming offer and CBS All Access. That Local Channels Pack may still be the best bet. But since both Hulu and CBS All Access will be offering original programming not available, there will be hard choices to make.

I see my problem as a mix and match - find the lowest cost that _mix_es both streaming and satellite TV in such a way that it closely _match_es our TV series viewing-without_or_skipping-commercials preferences. It's me becoming a "still corded" cord cutter.

For DISH Network Corporation, the *three Sling TV streaming packages* puts them competitively in the cord-cutter/cord-never competition. And that is where they want to be as 2020 approaches.


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## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

The new customer discount is available to current subscribers if they want the same deal. Two years guarantee no price increase and $5 discount. As for adding channels to the Top 250 - I agree you would think something like BBCWN would be added. But I don't think any channel has been added just to the Top 250 in quite sometime. I believe they are getting ready to drop it and/or Grandfather it. Many channels that were once only in that package are now in the Top 200.


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## xmguy (Mar 27, 2008)

I'm calling Dish now. I see it as a unsubscribed channel. I am very mad since I've been asking for this channel since I signed up. Since they want people to sign up and pay more, and lose channels only in the at250 too. So I'm loosing either way. I will be going back to charter once their tech improves. Sad to say too, I liked dish.

I told them I don't mind paying more for it. But I won't pay 30+ dollars more for it and still lose channels in the at250.


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## tcatdbs (Jul 10, 2008)

When I do selections on the Dish site, it gives a running total at top. Flex with locals $40, plus Heartland $46, plus 3 tvs (Hopper 3 + 2 Joeys) $70. The equipment with DVR is only $24? Is this a special? I'm paying more than that for my Hopper 1 plus 2 Joeys. 

That's $40 less than I'm paying now for top 200. Don't think Golf channel is worth $40 to me. 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## xmguy (Mar 27, 2008)

This is nuts, danged if I do danged if I don't. I'm going to be watching charter closely.


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## nmetro (Jul 11, 2006)

You can't just add the News Pack to AT 250, to pay $10 fro BBC World?

Then again, is BBC World worth $10? That is the cost for Some of the premium movie packages, like Stazr or Cinemax.

I will say, if DISH is trying to force people into Flex, they will force people to its competitors. My local Xfinity provider offers more channels than Flex, http://www.xfinity.com/locations/cable-tv-service/colorado/longmont.html$99/month for the 1st year. $109, no commitment. After a year, $130 - $160 dependeing on the area.

If so, I am glad I did not sign up for another two year commitment with the Hopper 3.

DISH make their Flex Packages sound like a great deal, until you figure out they are taking you for a ride. And insulting the intelligence of its subscribers.

DISH may have launched their version of the Edsel. For those who want to know what I am talking about: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edsel



xmguy said:


> I'm calling Dish now. I see it as a unsubscribed channel. I am very mad since I've been asking for this channel since I signed up. Since they want people to sign up and pay more, and lose channels only in the at250 too. So I'm loosing either way. I will be going back to charter once their tech improves. Sad to say too, I liked dish.
> 
> I told them I don't mind paying more for it. But I won't pay 30+ dollars more for it and still lose channels in the at250.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

I had to clear cookies, since visiting DISH's website as a customer gives different pages (at mydish.com) than visiting as a non-customer. (The dish.com website has the press release prices.)

There is a nice tool where one can click on the individual channel that one wants and DISH will add the Flex Channel Pack that includes that channel. But when one clicks on BBC America one gets a "sorry, not available in any Flex Channel Pack" message. The same error comes up when selecting NBCSN. (I do not understand why C-SPAN2 is not in a Flex Channel Pack - I thought that was always included. Programming glitch?)

So ... a world exists where one has to choose between a DISH package with BBC America in it or a DISH Flex Pack with BBC World News? And no amount of money can get a subscriber both channels? That doesn't make sense.

I cannot accept that what we see is the final offer. That there is no way of adding BBC World News and the other new channels to an account with AT250 (or a lesser subscription). Heartland and Outdoor are existing a la carte packages that can be added to AT120 or above. The current marketing layout doesn't make sense.


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## xmguy (Mar 27, 2008)

^^^ This is what I am encountering with Chiller and being on the AT250 and BBC World News. I flat told Dish, I'll pay $5, or $10 more for BBC World News, I like their news better than CNN, and I love the TV show Click. I had it when I had DirectTV, and then when I had Charter. 

In fact I just called them (charter) and their (at some point) upcoming worldbox would scare me if I was a exec at Dish. Cloud storage/viewing/recording. 

But if dish will comprise and add the channel to keep their already dwindling base with the loss of WGN/Tribune then I'll be happy. Otherwise I'll be keeping my eyes peeled at Charter. 

I would make my own thread, but the DBS Talk android app closes every time I try. I can reply, pm, etc, but no new threads.


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## anex80 (Jul 29, 2005)

tcatdbs said:


> When I do selections on the Dish site, it gives a running total at top. Flex with locals $40, plus Heartland $46, plus 3 tvs (Hopper 3 + 2 Joeys) $70. The equipment with DVR is only $24? Is this a special? I'm paying more than that for my Hopper 1 plus 2 Joeys.
> 
> That's $40 less than I'm paying now for top 200. Don't think Golf channel is worth $40 to me.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


Per the press release, it appears the H3 is only $10 for customers with Flex vs. $15 for those without. So the less you buy the more discounts you get.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Some glitches in the rollout to be sure... but what's interesting to me... People keep wanting "more choices" and more ability to "get just the channels I want" or "no sports" and many of us have said that the closer you get to choice and a la carte, the more the prices will go up... so here we have a move towards more choice, the price goes up, and people are surprised and angry?

I don't get why some of these new channels aren't in AT250, though. That seems weird.


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

Like others I see the MTV Channels as well as BBC World in red. I hope the CSR's get flooded with phone calls. We lost Aj America, why not give us BBC World as a replacement? One advantage of the Flex pack, I see no sports. For me that would be a plus, but the cost of each channel is much more than with AT250. We have lost several channels, regional & national, NWCN (NW News) we lost, it looks like WGN may be gone, AJ America went off, so I would think these new commercial channels should go into AT 250. My feeling is those MTV channels as well as BBC World should be included in AT250 to give us back something on what we have lost. With 250K subs dropping, does Dish want to lose more? Also in the large package on Direct they include BBC World in HD. Plus Charter Cable also does and they have the MTV channels. Charter Cable also carries several of the Portland OTA sub channels METV, Escape, Grit, etc). As much as I like Dish, Dish needs to give us something to keep us loyal. Raising prices people often do not like, but that is reality in this day, but add channels to keep us happy.


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## nmetro (Jul 11, 2006)

It keeps getting better fro existing customers

:nono2:



anex80 said:


> Per the press release, it appears the H3 is only $10 for customers with Flex vs. $15 for those without. So the less you buy the more discounts you get.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

I expect prices to go up. But even if AT250 went up a few bucks, which I am sure it will, please include all of the regular channels, including BBC World. It also looks like even if I wanted to pay extra for BBC World, I couldn't, not with AT250. The CSR told me the other day, I would have to move to the Flex Pack. The way this is set up, is crazy. I hope they get this ironed out.


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## nmetro (Jul 11, 2006)

This coupled with the loss of two of my locals (Tribune owned), and WGN America, now going on three months; no credit. Loss of NFL Network fro Nearly two months; no credit.

Weird about this. KWGN, a Super Super Station available nationwide, but not in Denver.

As for not being in AT250, the writing si on the all; the AT packages will probably be dumped, ro become so unappetizing, that people will be forced into the higher price alternative. And that alternative si cheaper through my local Xfinity provider.

DISH may also be skirting breach of contract and class action suit territory here. Especially those in contract, with AT250, and been told that they get all channels, except the premiums and ala carte. AEP folks more so. When is "everything" no longer "everything"? Answer, it just happened today with the MTV and BBC World Channels.



mwdxer said:


> Like others I see the MTV Channels as well as BBC World in red. I hope the CSR's get flooded with phone calls. We lost Aj America, why not give us BBC World as a replacement? One advantage of the Flex pack, I see no sports. For me that would be a plus, but the cost of each channel is much more than with AT250. We have lost several channels, regional & national, NWCN (NW News) we lost, it looks like WGN may be gone, AJ America went off, so I would think these new commercial channels should go into AT 250. My feeling is those MTV channels as well as BBC World should be included in AT250 to give us back something on what we have lost. With 250K subs dropping, does Dish want to lose more? Also in the large package on Direct they include BBC World in HD. Plus Charter Cable also does and they have the MTV channels. Charter Cable also carries several of the Portland OTA sub channels METV, Escape, Grit, etc). As much as I like Dish, Dish needs to give us something to keep us loyal. Raising prices people often do not like, but that is reality in this day, but add channels to keep us happy.


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

I just got off the phone with a Dish CSR. He checked with engineering & programming. The message was once things get rolled out the MTV channels as well as BBC World will be in AT250. Finally something, if the info is correct. I can imagine the number of calls Dish is getting on these new channels. Doesn't Direct have an Everything pack" too?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

mwdxer said:


> I just got off the phone with a Dish CSR. He checked with engineering & programming. The message was once things get rolled out the MTV channels as well as BBC World will be in AT250. Finally something, if the info is correct.


Good news. The current situation where there is no way (at any price) to buy all of the channels is not right. Getting the new channels in AT250 will restore sanity.



mwdxer said:


> I can imagine the number of calls Dish is getting on these new channels. Doesn't Direct have an Everything pack" too?


DIRECTV does not call it "everything" ... so they are off the hook. DISH's "almost everything pack" (AEP) has never included all channels. But all channels were available at some price. (AEP does not include the multi-sports package, adult channels and a couple of other a la carte channels. Latino channels are an add on, as well as any international channels.)


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

The old adage "A little knowledge can be dangerous" comes into play here. We found out several weeks ago about the MTV channels and BBC World, but there was no info on these channels, except they were coming. We waited week after week, nothing. The uplink info showed them, but nothing showed up in our guides. We call CSR's and they have no idea what channels we are talking about. They still don't. After I posted, I called back again to a CSR and she knew nothing of any of the new channels. None are listed in any of their material. She even asked a supervisor and that person knew nothing. She wanted to know if I meant BBC America, I said no and explained that BBC World is an all news channel like CNN is. My take on this is the channels are not available for prime time as yet. Sure the MTV channels may be in the Flex pack, but really aren't advertised. Since the CSRs do not even know about them. So, how can the CSR sell the new channels if they have no idea that they even exist? I have no idea for sure if the channels will show up in AT250, but I hope that the earlier CSR is right. But until the CSR's know about the channels, I guess things will be up in the air. I'll just check the guide every morning and see if they are turned on and check the usual groups. If not, and Dish starts advertises them, then we can find out how they are being sold and we still don't have them, then we can cry uncle. But I kind a agree with the logic of the first CSR, that AT250 has most every basic channel and it makes since that these new channels will be in that pack.


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## tcatdbs (Jul 10, 2008)

Do flex pack customers get all the extra Olympics channels (148-1 thru - 9)? (Golf and nbcsn?). As long as they get specials and free previews, I'm in. Especially to get the Hopper 3 upgrade at $10!

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## xmguy (Mar 27, 2008)

When I see this that I've been waiting 6 months to see again. But yet I cannot, I am upset to say the least.


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## boukengreen (Sep 22, 2009)

mwdxer said:


> I just got off the phone with a Dish CSR. He checked with engineering & programming. The message was once things get rolled out the MTV channels as well as BBC World will be in AT250. Finally something, if the info is correct. I can imagine the number of calls Dish is getting on these new channels. Doesn't Direct have an Everything pack" too?


 yes it's the premier package and the only thing it doesn't include is PPV and out of market sports

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## xmguy (Mar 27, 2008)

mwdxer said:


> Like others I see the MTV Channels as well as BBC World in red. I hope the CSR's get flooded with phone calls. We lost Aj America, why not give us BBC World as a replacement? One advantage of the Flex pack, I see no sports. For me that would be a plus, but the cost of each channel is much more than with AT250. We have lost several channels, regional & national, NWCN (NW News) we lost, it looks like WGN may be gone, AJ America went off, so I would think these new commercial channels should go into AT 250. My feeling is those MTV channels as well as BBC World should be included in AT250 to give us back something on what we have lost. With 250K subs dropping, does Dish want to lose more? Also in the large package on Direct they include BBC World in HD. Plus Charter Cable also does and they have the MTV channels. Charter Cable also carries several of the Portland OTA sub channels METV, Escape, Grit, etc). As much as I like Dish, Dish needs to give us something to keep us loyal. Raising prices people often do not like, but that is reality in this day, but add channels to keep us happy.


Gritt, MeTV, Retro TV, Comet, etc... I loved this ota sub channels and was thrilled to get a few on Dish. That's why I would go to charter before DirectTV again. But Dish needs to make this right.


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## xmguy (Mar 27, 2008)

mwdxer said:


> I just got off the phone with a Dish CSR. He checked with engineering & programming. The message was once things get rolled out the MTV channels as well as BBC World will be in AT250. Finally something, if the info is correct. I can imagine the number of calls Dish is getting on these new channels. Doesn't Direct have an Everything pack" too?


Let's hope that happens. No idea when they'll add it. But before people abandon ship, they best add them soon.


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## tcatdbs (Jul 10, 2008)

Well, online chat isn't too helpful (but much faster than calling in. I'm guessing my proposal is right except probably $15 for the Hopper 3. Still a big drop from my top 200! My chat:

￼ Rhea: Hi, my name is Rhea Romano. How may I help you? 
￼ Tom: If I switch to the Flex pack plus locals plus Heartland, and upgrade my Hopper to Hopper 3, do I get the $5 autopay discount, the $10 DVR service, and the 2 year price guaranty?
$40 + $6 + $10 hopper3 + $7 x 2 Joeys = $70
Right? 
￼ Rhea: Hi Tom. 
￼ Rhea: Yes, you can still have your credit for the autopay. 
￼ Rhea: I was unable to access your account with the phone number you have provided. Can you think of another number that would be associated with your account? I can also use the full service address or the 16 digit account number listed on your DISH bill to identify your account. 
￼ Tom: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX For your protection, we have masked potentially sensitive information in your message. Please re-type as an "Off the Record" message by selecting the Lock icon in the above toolbar. 
￼ Rhea: Thank you. 
￼ Rhea: This credits that you are referring are offered through new customer offers, however as I can see on your account that you have good standing. 
￼ Rhea: We appreciate your services with DISH and want to ensure you get the best support possible for this matter. Please dial 1-(866) 974-0769 between 7 am and 1 am Eastern time, 7 days a week to speak with one of our Account Specialists. They will be able to further assist you. 
￼ Tom: Ok 
￼ Rhea: This department is the one who process giving higher credits 
￼ Rhea: On my end, I will make sure your account is noted to ensure that you would not have to repeat yourself once you contact them. 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## Wilf (Oct 15, 2008)

I am having a hard time following this thread. Dish is offering another option - the other options are still there. Why is there so much angst over another choice?


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

The best. easiest to read, most comprehesive story about this option I've seen to date is in _*Variety*_. It clearly explains the nature of the new packages, reflects on the question of will ESPN/Disney complain, etc. And regarding pricing:



> Dish's Flex Pack is $29.99 monthly without any add-on bundles, or $39.99 per month with one add-on channel pack....
> 
> Flex Pack includes a standard Dish receiver, free installation and a two-year price guarantee for new customers. For an additional $10 per month, new customers can upgrade their equipment to the Hopper 3. Customers must enroll in online billing and auto-pay programs to be eligible for the offers.





Wilf said:


> I am having a hard time following this thread. Dish is offering another option - the other options are still there. Why is there so much angst over another choice?


The angst. If you're like me, I cheer having choices but I'm finding it hard to process the huge range of options available, among which are Dish's new option(s). And after you think you've got the streaming and the money-saving new Dish subscriptions you want, then there's the problem of how to organize your viewing when you really don't want to binge watch. Then you read about a show on the one channel you have no access to....


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

boukengreen said:


> yes it's the premier package and the only thing it doesn't include is PPV and out of market sports


Out of market RSNs are included in Premier ... but not the blacked out sports.



Wilf said:


> I am having a hard time following this thread. Dish is offering another option - the other options are still there. Why is there so much angst over another choice?


Part of the angst is the channels CURRENTLY only available using the new Flex Pack options. One would need to choose Flex Pack to get these new channels - however choosing Flex Pack loses several channels that are only available in regular packages. At the moment it is a Catch 22/Sophie's choice. The example I gave above: One can subscribe to tiered package and get BBC America. One can subscribe to Flex Pack w/News and get BBC World News. CURRENTLY one cannot subscribe to both. Hopefully DISH will fix that sooner than later.


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## mitchflorida (May 18, 2009)

They are targeting the Flex Pack for new Dish customers, who are eligible for new signup promos that are much more generous..

I guess they are experimenting, I see it as very overblown for the savings you get. If you have a varied household with different interests (like two or more people), Flex will cost you more for less.


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

boukengreen said:


> yes it's the premier package and the only thing it doesn't include is PPV and out of market sports


It also doesn't include Fox Soccer Plus, Dog TV, MBC Drama HD, the channels in the HD Extra Package (kind of like Dish's Movie Pack) or the International subscription packages.


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## plasmacat (Mar 14, 2007)

Looking at the Flex package - it does not include BBCA, but more important to me is no CSNBA, CSNCA or any Comcast Sportsnet channels in the package or in the add-on packages.
Can somebody confirm this?


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## nmetro (Jul 11, 2006)

The "angst" starts with, if you subscribe to AT250 or America's Everything Pack (AEP), you are paying $x fro X number of channels.

If you convert to the Flex Packs and subscribe to all the options, which would make up the equivalent At250 or AEP, you discover quite quickly that:

1. You are paying about $15 to $20 more than what you had before. ($10 fro locals instead of $6 for example)
2. That you are getting less channels then you had before. (Channels like BBC America)
3. Right now, several new channels are only in the Flex packs, but not available to people who have the various AT DISH packages. (BB word, and the new music channels)

So, if you are long time subscriber, which rarely gets the benefits offered to new subscribers, this is a slap in the face. Especially, if a subscriber has been around for a very long time. And especially, it was understood that being at AT250 or AEP you get new channels because you are in the top tier of programming options.



Wilf said:


> I am having a hard time following this thread. Dish is offering another option - the other options are still there. Why is there so much angst over another choice?


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Oh please! The flex pack is for those that want only (or nearly the only) channels they want to watch that fit the makeup. It isn't designed to replace the Txxx packages for those that want more.

For me the Flex pack+Locals+national sports has every channel that I watched in the T120, but it is $10 less. For others the Flex pack approach may not be a good fit. But it is VERY nice to have some new choices.

No angst needed... 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## tcatdbs (Jul 10, 2008)

Many want fewer channels for less. Flex does that, but certainly could be more flexible. I'm more than happy with sports on local networks, happy with local news. Wife watches 5 or 6 channels and I watch 7 or 8. All are included with Flex + Heartland (although if we didn't both watch GSN, the $10 movie pack is a better deal than Heartland since it has HalmarkMM which she watches) . Why are there duplicates in Flex and some of the addon packs? Be much nicer to get all different channels. I have a feeling that after 2 years lots of other fees will kick in making it not that much less than top 200. But saving $30/mo x 24 = $720!

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

nmetro said:


> The "angst" starts with, if you subscribe to AT250 or America's Everything Pack (AEP), you are paying $x fro X number of channels.
> 
> If you convert to the Flex Packs and subscribe to all the options, which would make up the equivalent At250 or AEP, you discover quite quickly that:
> 
> ...


Where are you getting locals cost $6 in the packages anymore? DISH raised the price to $10 for the locals in the International packages before, how do we know how much they cost us in the packages?
Why would anyone add all the packs if they are trying to save money and get just the channels they really want. If they really want all the channels of course they would stay with the Top packages. This to me means you don't quite get why the Flex Pack can save some serious money.

One of the biggest keys is that the core Flex Pack has a very high percentage of the cable channels minus sports, locals, all the news channels people want that you have to get the Top 200 or with Direct you need their equivalent package to get. With Flex you get those for a fraction of the cost. Then it's a matter of choice. If I don't need my RSN all year but just during Baseball season then I can get that pack and drop it after without losing any of the core channels. Maybe I want the all the News channels during elections but most of the time what is in the core package is enough along with local news, so I save there. Those with OTA may not want to pay for locals but must with the other packages.


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## jsk (Dec 27, 2006)

Just curious, but if you don't get the locals, will you get guide data for the ones that you can get OTA? My guess is no since when they drop a channel, they remove the guide data.


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## nmetro (Jul 11, 2006)

No locals subscribed to, possibly no EPG data fro the channels from DISH.

The EPG data, at least through the Hopper, does not come from the OTA signal, but from DISH. The stations are identified, like THIS, COZI and the like, but no schedule. I use Ititan TV to figure out what is on, via my laptop.



jsk said:


> Just curious, but if you don't get the locals, will you get guide data for the ones that you can get OTA? My guess is no since when they drop a channel, they remove the guide data.


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## nmetro (Jul 11, 2006)

Instead of attacking the messenger, ask a CSR.

If DISH chooses to, they can dump the AT packages. Some people like myself, like getting a slew of channels. Also, I watch all kinds of sport, including Rugby and Aussie rules Football, besides the sports in the US. And I like movies.

Why would people choose everything, pay more? Well, as confusing as DISH has made the current circumstance, less informed people may dump a packages to get new channels they want and realize they may have made a mistake; and may not be able to go back.

These forums are designed to help people.

Finally, DISH did a very poor job, and still are, with the roll out of Flex.

You are welcome to do what you want to do, but people need to be made aware that cost and that Flex is not for everyone. Just like At250 is not for everyone.



Where are you getting locals cost $6 in the packages anymore? DISH raised the price to $10 for the locals in the International packages before, how do we know how much they cost us in the packages?
Why would anyone add all the packs if they are trying to save money and get just the channels they really want. If they really want all the channels of course they would stay with the Top packages. This to me means you don't quite get why the Flex Pack can save some serious money.

One of the biggest keys is that the core Flex Pack has a very high percentage of the cable channels minus sports, locals, all the news channels people want that you have to get the Top 200 or with Direct you need their equivalent package to get. With Flex you get those for a fraction of the cost. Then it's a matter of choice. If I don't need my RSN all year but just during Baseball season then I can get that pack and drop it after without losing any of the core channels. Maybe I want the all the News channels during elections but most of the time what is in the core package is enough along with local news, so I save there. Those with OTA may not want to pay for locals but must with the other packages.


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## 4HiMarks (Jan 21, 2004)

I don't get all the grumbling over one or two channels. I want to know if the Flex Pack allows one to get rid of whole clumps of channels like all the home shopping channels or the religious channels.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

tampa8 said:


> One of the biggest keys is that the core Flex Pack has a very high percentage of the cable channels minus sports, locals, all the news channels people want that you have to get the Top 200 or with Direct you need their equivalent package to get. With Flex you get those for a fraction of the cost. Then it's a matter of choice. If I don't need my RSN all year but just during Baseball season then I can get that pack and drop it after without losing any of the core channels. Maybe I want the all the News channels during elections but most of the time what is in the core package is enough along with local news, so I save there. Those with OTA may not want to pay for locals but must with the other packages.


The new Flex Pack options offer great money saving opportunities, but will require many to be more proactive in managing their subscriptions. This reflects the new option that streaming sites like Netflix, Hulu, etc. created.

Unlike the cord-never millennials it took me some time to figure out that one could turn the subscriptions on and off. If a new show or new season of a show you really want to watch begins on Netflix, you turn your subscription on. While it's on you watch some other stuff you thought you might want to watch but weren't sure about plus maybe some movies. Then after a month or two you shut the subscription off for awhile.

I used to switch back and forth between AT200 and AT120 ($15/mo difference) to catch a particular show on BBCA I wanted to see. But I couldn't come back to AT200 after being on AT120 and watch a series or season of a past season of a show that wasn't must-see-TV but I might watch it when I had the channel.

I finally gave up on BBCA. And I find it preposterous that I'd have to subscribe to AT200 to get it knowing that at some point in time the very few shows on the channel I'd like to see will be streaming at some site.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

4HiMarks said:


> I don't get all the grumbling over one or two channels. I want to know if the Flex Pack allows one to get rid of whole clumps of channels like all the home shopping channels or the religious channels.


No, you still get those channels as I think they pay Dish. I just keep them out of my custom guide.


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

I agree that Dish did a poor job on rolling out the new packs. Especially not informing the CSR's. In every call, none of the CSR's knew anything about BBC World or the MTV channels. If those channels are indeed available, why don't we have them in AT250? Besides that, I could not even subscribe to them with AT250. I would have to go after the Flex pack. Although the thought of not having to pay for sports channels, that is indeed a plus, but we are paying much more per channel with Flex and the add ons. Then having to add more packs to Flex, will eat up any savings, at least for me. I like having a huge variety AT250 offers. Even though some channels I rarely watch, they are indeed available to watch on occasion. I like that and to be able to DVR anything I might want to watch later. Sure I get BBC World on Roku, but it is not all in one place, and the convenience of having everything on Dish is a real winner for me. Since we lost Aj America, shouldn't Dish replace that lost International news channel, with another? I would think so, and BBC is a good choice. Time will tell "if" we get these new channels in AT250. To me it is not rocket science. Adding these misc channels to AT250 is not asking for a lot.


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## xmguy (Mar 27, 2008)

I've never been with a provider like Dish, where they pick and choose what channels to add where. Like dish has I mean.


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## hsoj95 (Aug 6, 2016)

So... ok, I guess as long time Dish subscribers, going on 10 years now, with the America's Top 250 package, We'd like to know is there anyway we will get BBC World News added to our package? Without having to switch packages, which would cause us to lose channels we like, or pay a VERY hefty additional price? I feel like being subscribed to one of the highest packages Dish has to offer should allow us to watch channels Dish offers on lower tier packages. This feels a little bit like a slap to the face to long time subscribers...


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

xmguy said:


> I've never been with a provider like Dish, where they pick and choose what channels to add where. Like dish has I mean.


Except they don't just pick and choose... Where the channel goes is part of the negotiation process with the channels. If a channel goes in one package and not another, you can bet that's because it was what was agreed upon in the contract negotiations. Who knows whether it was what Dish wanted, what the channel wanted, or both... but it isn't a whim by Dish after the fact.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

xmguy said:


> I've never been with a provider like Dish, where they pick and choose what channels to add where. Like dish has I mean.


So you have never subscribed to pay TV?

Channel placement is done in coordination with the channel providers ... but ALL pay TV providers are involved in what channel is placed where in their systems.


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## xmguy (Mar 27, 2008)

James Long said:


> So you have never subscribed to pay TV?
> 
> Channel placement is done in coordination with the channel providers ... but ALL pay TV providers are involved in what channel is placed where in their systems.


I've never had a provider work like dish does. Basic channels out of high packages.


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

We just do not know as yet, as the latest uplink info on 8/4 states the channels are "hidden" Which sounds like they are not available as yet. So we wait it out. Like the rest, I really want BBC World on Dish too. Until the CSR's know the score, we will not know. If channels are turned on, Wednesday's, we may see something by then.


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## jsk (Dec 27, 2006)

I just had a frustrating chat session with Dish to ask if I would continue to get EPG data if I switched to the Flex Pack without locals. The CSR didn't understand much about how the OTA module worked. Would anyone from DIRT (or someone who got the Flex Pack) be able to answer my question?

[I changed the names in the chat session]

Dish CSR: Hi, my name is Dish CSR. How may I help you? 
Dish CSR: Hello, Jeffrey. 
jsk: I am considering the Flex Pack and was wondering if I do not get locals, will I still get the EPG data for recording OTA channels via the DVR. 
Dish CSR: I will be more than happy to assist you today. 
jsk: Thanks 
Dish CSR: Local channels may be added to the Flex pack for $10. 
Dish CSR: They will not be able to be recorded if accessed through an over the air antenna. 
jsk: Will the electronic program guide have the listing for the over the air channels that I get with my antenna? 
jsk: Using my over the air module for my 722K 
Dish CSR: No I apologize, the over the air antenna only accesses the TV but not the receiver. 
Dish CSR: You can access local channels with an over the air antenna but not record them. 
Dish CSR: I have not heard from you in a while and your chat window shows you've been idle for several minutes; are you still with me? 
jsk: My 722K has an over the air module. My over the air antenna plugs into my dish receiver. Right now, I get program guide information from Dish for the channels that I receive over the air (even the ones that I don't get over the satellite). I know I would be able to use my 722K to record the over the air channels as I do now. However, I am wondering if you would continue to provide the electronic program guide information so I can use the DVR timers to record 
Dish CSR: If you are able to access the channels in your programming guide since the antenna is connected to the receiver it may still continue to be available, although the EPG for the OTA channels is broadcasted locally so we cannot guarentee. 
Dish CSR: guarantee* 
jsk: Thank you


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

James Long said:


> Here is the new package on the DISH website:
> 
> https://www.mydish.com/flex-pack


Did anyone else notice that the list falsely claims TV Land and INSP are carried in HD?


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

KyL416 said:


> Did anyone else notice that the list falsely claims TV Land and INSP are carried in HD?


We can always hope that instead of fixing the web site they'll add the HD channels. :sure:


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## tcatdbs (Jul 10, 2008)

jsk said:


> I just had a frustrating chat session with Dish to ask if I would continue to get EPG data if I switched to the Flex Pack without locals. The CSR didn't understand much about how the OTA module worked. Would anyone from DIRT (or someone who got the Flex Pack) be able to answer my question?
> 
> [I changed the names in the chat session]
> 
> ...


Somebody over here tried it and says egg stays (so far). 
http://www.satelliteguys.us/xen/index.php?threads/362590/

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

KyL416 said:


> Did anyone else notice that the list falsely claims TV Land and INSP are carried in HD?


There are errors on the chart. Please do not make derogatory claims that any error is intentional.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

mwdxer said:


> We just do not know as yet, as the latest uplink info on 8/4 states the channels are "hidden"


Actually, the August 4th update shows "Hidden flag removed. (was SD Hidden)".
The channels are visible.


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## KevinRS (Oct 9, 2007)

Reading through the press release, it definitely says new and existing customers, and the only qualification on the pricing of 39.99 with one add-on or 29.99 with none is that ebill and autopay are required. So it should be pretty easy to get that $5 off the pricing that's shown to existing customers.

I am on the edge of changing over to the flex pack, but in the channel comparison, I'm not seeing the olympics channels listed, 97 olmpb and 98 olmps, I don't want to change right now and drop those, when in a couple weeks the olympics will be over.

The $10 a month upgrade from standard receiver to hopper 3 does say new customers only.
The dish receiver comparison page shows a normal charge of $15 for the hopper, + $7 for a joey for the second TV, compared to $10 dvr fee for a 722k. I don't find anything saying whether that discounted upgrade to a hopper 3 includes the joey, probably not?

It would be nice to be able to upgrade my existing aging 722 to a hopper if it was only the increase of $3 from the $7 I'm paying right now, but if a joey is also needed for another $7 for the second TV, that would erase any savings I'll get switching to the flex pack.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

Each extra TV means an additional Joey. I suppose you could get a modulator for the Hopper / Joey and use coax to distribute that to more than one TV, but that will only be SD.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

KevinRS said:


> It would be nice to be able to upgrade my existing aging 722 to a hopper if it was only the increase of $3 from the $7 I'm paying right now, but if a joey is also needed for another $7 for the second TV, that would erase any savings I'll get switching to the flex pack.


How do you connect your 722 to a second TV? The reason i ask is related to this thread Two TVs from 1 Hopper.


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

In checking Dish's site, I see the Flex pack with the MTV channels and BBC World as a News add on, and under AT250, those channels are not listed. For me, the Flex pack is not of interest. There just aren't many channels that is of interest. The AT250 is to my liking. But I hope the MTV channels and especially BBC World get added to AT250.


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## xmguy (Mar 27, 2008)

mwdxer said:


> In checking Dish's site, I see the Flex pack with the MTV channels and BBC World as a News add on, and under AT250, those channels are not listed. For me, the Flex pack is not of interest. There just aren't many channels that is of interest. The AT250 is to my liking. But I hope the MTV channels and especially BBC World get added to AT250.


I would loose Chiller if I went to flex and pay more than I do with the AT250.

It's like James Long said, no amount of money can get you all channels right now. Which from a financial standpoint seems crazy.


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## tcatdbs (Jul 10, 2008)

They'd keep a lot more subs if they offered all the missing channels ala-carte! Offer them all at $5 each, then the flex pack would look much better! They'd probably add 30% more subs if they did that, and keep 100%!

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## KevinRS (Oct 9, 2007)

Second TV is SD, and on the coax TV2 output


phrelin said:


> How do you connect your 722 to a second TV? The reason i ask is related to this thread Two TVs from 1 Hopper.


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## KevinRS (Oct 9, 2007)

My question for those who have switched to flex plan is, what are you getting for olympics channels? From the listing on package comparison, it looks like nothing at all besides maybe golf which is on preview, unless you add locals, and/or add news channels.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

KevinRS said:


> Second TV is SD, and on the coax TV2 output


I have a Hopper w/Sling and have

one HD TV connected to the the HDMI output,
one HD TV connected to the component RGB+optical audio, and
one SD TV connected to the RCA video/audio.
There is no coax TV output.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

KevinRS said:


> My question for those who have switched to flex plan is, what are you getting for olympics channels? From the listing on package comparison, it looks like nothing at all besides maybe golf which is on preview, unless you add locals, and/or add news channels.


You are correct. As was announced in the Dish news release on Olympics coverage:



> *Exclusive sports hub on DISH channel 148:* DISH's exclusive sports hub creates an easy means to navigate through NBCUniversal coverage across 10 networks: NBCSN, Golf Channel, Bravo, CNBC, MSNBC, USA Network, Telemundo, NBC Universo and two linear sport-specific specialty channels. DISH's channel 148 will be labeled "2016 Rio Olympics" and, when expanded, it will list these NBCU networks side-by-side in the guide.
> 
> *"NBC Olympics TV Experience" app:* DISH will offer an NBC Olympics app on its family of Hopper set-top boxes and accompanying 4K Joey, Wireless Joey, Joey and Super Joey units. The app features real-time medal counts dynamically provided by NBCUniversal, and will showcase the complete NBC Olympics TV roster by schedule and network. Viewers can use the app to tune to any live event or record any upcoming event.


Some of those channels are not available. When I go to the App which as a schedule and press an event on one of those channels it would require me to upgrade my packages.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Besides the Spanish language channels, NBC Sports is presenting the most Olympic coverage and it is only in the T250 package.

Otherwise the Golf Channel as you noted, locals, and USA. USA and locals are available in the Flex Pack+Local Pack combo.

For me only Boxing and Golf are of interest and I'll see 1/2 of that on the Golf Channel. Boxing is all on NBCSP so I'll miss that since I have the Flex Pack.

Lloyd from the Pixel


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## fudpucker (Jul 23, 2007)

lparsons21 said:


> Besides the Spanish language channels, NBC Sports is presenting the most Olympic coverage and it is only in the T250 package.
> 
> Otherwise the Golf Channel as you noted, locals, and USA. USA and locals are available in the Flex Pack+Local Pack combo.
> 
> ...


Confused - when I go to Dish and look at the package comparison, NBCSN is shown in HD available in both the AT 200 and the AT 250 package, not just the AT 250.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

My bad, I would have sworn it was only in the T250. Thanks for the correction.

Lloyd from the Pixel


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## fudpucker (Jul 23, 2007)

lparsons21 said:


> My bad, I would have sworn it was only in the T250. Thanks for the correction.
> 
> Lloyd from the Pixel


NP. either way, you have to subscribe to one of the top two packages to get it.


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## xmguy (Mar 27, 2008)

I talked to a DISH rep yesterday who told me BBCWN will not appear in the Line up for the AT250 until the current contract expires with them. I was given an estimated date of 6 months or more. How nice of dish to negotiate that way.


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## xmguy (Mar 27, 2008)

The rep also told me, he had gotten 3 calls that day alone about BBCWN not being available. So they're getting a lot of flack from this.


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

It at least looks like BBCW is coming....That still does not explain the MTV suite.


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## nmetro (Jul 11, 2006)

It does explain that DISH does not care about customer paying dollars for AT250 and AEP and subsidizing Flex Pack customers.

Make one wonder if we ever see the Tribune channels, let a lone the MTV and BBCW channel again.

And yes, no credit still for me paying for two locals that I am not getting because of Tribune and DISH acting as bas as our Washington politicians.

What si weird, KWGN is being seen everywhere in the country, if you have the Super Station package, but not in Denver.

I bet when Tribune own CBS, NBC and FOX stations are still blocked, when football season starts, then the anger, or cancellations, will rise. Not everyone can get signals OTA.


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

Well, Dish has lost 250K customers. Some have cut the cord, but most probably went to Direct or cable. Both here has BBC World. If Dish loses 250k, mainly because of disputes, does anyone think that a handful of subs complaining about not having BBC World, will make any difference? Why Dish would sign some contract that would keep the majority of viewers access to BBC World, it beyond my understanding, when Direct and cable has it in their regular packages. I am so happy with my Roku, as I get most of the International news channels in English for free including BBC and even Sky News (UK). I have backed Dish for years and have been a supporter since I bought and installed my own equipment back in 1999. In fact I believed in Dish to the point where I knew I would stay with them and I have always purchased my own equipment and installed it myself. I have sat through disputes and we all have. But this is really a big disappointment for me not to get BBC World on Dish. What now keeps me with Dish are the Super Stations and a few other channels cable or Direct does not have. But at least I have it streaming. It is nice to have everything in one place. We continue to get increases and yet, do not get all of the channels.


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## shadough (Dec 31, 2006)

jsk said:


> I just had a frustrating chat session with Dish to ask if I would continue to get EPG data if I switched to the Flex Pack without locals. The CSR didn't understand much about how the OTA module worked. Would anyone from DIRT (or someone who got the Flex Pack) be able to answer my question?
> 
> [I changed the names in the chat session]
> 
> ...


I can't imagine that the guide data would NOT be there. We should still get guide data. Case in point, the Tribune channels, now have guide data (at least for the Off-air channel) and they are off Dish still.


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## xmguy (Mar 27, 2008)

I'm biding my time until Charter improves a bit on their technology for DVRs. I sadly regret getting DISH. The Hopper 3 never works right. Channels we all should get, we don't. Just keeps adding up. 

Charter has BBCWN in HD, not just SD. Dish will have to loose a lot more I think before anything will happen. 

How many months has it been for Tribune?


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## nmetro (Jul 11, 2006)

Going on two months.



xmguy said:


> I'm biding my time until Charter improves a bit on their technology for DVRs. I sadly regret getting DISH. The Hopper 3 never works right. Channels we all should get, we don't. Just keeps adding up.
> 
> Charter has BBCWN in HD, not just SD. Dish will have to loose a lot more I think before anything will happen.
> 
> How many months has it been for Tribune?


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## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

What does the DISH official press release or official announcement and information say about the placement of the new channels?


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Nothing as far as I can tell. One of the dirt people said they didn't have that info yet either


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## fudpucker (Jul 23, 2007)

What's funny, I'm about to dump Directv and move back to Dish, LOL!

The channel disputes are, tbh, the only significant hesitation I have. Directv has them also, they're in one now with a locals owner, but they tend to try to resolve them, it appears, much faster than Charlie does. It almost seems like Charlie doesn't really care if Dish subscribers lose channels or go without them for months, by damn he's not gonna let anyone "beat" him!

That said, I can get a much better price for the same channel package for two years guaranteed and the Hopper 3 is much better tech than the Genie in so many ways. I only left for Sunday ticket, which they gave me for free for two years, but I'm not willing to pay what they want for it now.


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## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

lparsons21 said:


> Nothing as far as I can tell. One of the dirt people said they didn't have that info yet either
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


*Exactly. *People are assuming at this point. You can call the CSR's all day long, you can hear them give you all kinds of answers but at this point they have no information about the new channels because DISH hasn't yet released the official announcement they are carrying them or what package(s) they will end up in. Maybe what we see is what will happen, maybe not. We have been told many times CSR's do not normally have information about carriage of channels prior to the day of the official announcement.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

tampa8 said:


> We have been told many times CSR's do not normally have information about carriage of channels prior to the day of the official announcement.


Other than the press release announcing the Flex Pack the channels have not been announced. However, DISH did officially update their official channel guide PDF on their official website. So that should count for something. (I linked a copy of the PDF earlier in the thread.)

There are obvious errors on that channel guide ... but has any AT250 subscriber come forward and say that they are getting the new channels? Or at this moment in time is the guide correct and the new channels are not in AT250?

I am giving DISH the benefit of the doubt and assuming that they will fix the problem. But each day and week that goes by that those channels are not available at any price to AT250 subscribers (without dropping AT250 and channels that are not available at any price with the Flex Pack) makes the black eye blacker.


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

You are right. Until we see some official announcement, we don't know for sure. All of these CSR answers seem a bit off. The idea that BBC World will not be in AT250, until they renegotiate their contract, does not make sense especially when Direct & Cable has the channel in their regular packs.


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## HobbyTalk (Jul 14, 2007)

mwdxer said:


> Well, Dish has lost 250K customers.


Dish isn't the only one that lost customers

Pay TV lost over 700,000 subscribers in Q2, analyst says


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

True, as one worker for Charter cable told me that people as leaving cable TV left and right.


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## fudpucker (Jul 23, 2007)

No surprise that ESPN is not a fan of Dish's "skinny bundle" :

http://www.fiercecable.com/cable/disney-s-iger-dish-s-skinny-bundle-so-skinny-you-can-t-even-see-it


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## tcatdbs (Jul 10, 2008)

fudpucker said:


> No surprise that ESPN is not a fan of Dish's "skinny bundle" :
> 
> http://www.fiercecable.com/cable/disney-s-iger-dish-s-skinny-bundle-so-skinny-you-can-t-even-see-it


That's pretty funny. Maybe watched ESPN once in 10 years, and Disney about the same. I do watch Golf, the only reason I'm still on the Top 200 package.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

I'm on the T200 right now after trying out the Flex Pack+Locals+National sports. I made the switch to the T200 because of the Olympics coverage. I'm enjoying the boxing and golf that are my favored sports.

But in a month I'll change back to the Flex pack and get the national sports as I like boxing and ESPN has some good boxing on it. As to golf? Well often I go to the course clubhouse and watch there, but overall just am not watching much golf as other things are more interesting.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

fudpucker said:


> No surprise that ESPN is not a fan of Dish's "skinny bundle"


They are not fans of losing 2.2 million subscribers (not all DISH). They have to position themselves as a "must have" network to survive.


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## fudpucker (Jul 23, 2007)

James Long said:


> They are not fans of losing 2.2 million subscribers (not all DISH). They have to position themselves as a "must have" network to survive.


While the a la cart/Skinny offering doesn't work for me, I am really, really interested in how popular it is. We've said for a long time no provider would offer a la carte' for various reasons and if they did it would be prohibitively expensive. This isn't complete a la carte but a step in that direction, and yeah, for a lot of us it is indeed more expensive than the standard packages. And I would bet it is intended to be a shot across the bows of channels like ESPN. You can't leave it out of your standard packages but you send a message, especially if there's a good market for packages without it. I wonder how many subscribers to the flex packages will not bundle with a sports pack with ESPN.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

See me, the sports pack is what I find the best value. I can get everything else via Netflix streaming or DVD. All I have to do is be patient. Sports is what keeps me. I wouldn't be surprised if the sports and locals are the most popular and that's it.


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## fudpucker (Jul 23, 2007)

I've said this before, but I'll repeat myself - I always say we only watch about 20 stations if that many beyond the locals, and really, on a regular basis (as in things we DVR, which is how we watch most shows) probably a dozen channels beyond the locals and the sports channels. Yet as I contemplate moving back to Dish, I find myself thinking oooh instead of the AT200 maybe I should go AT250? JUST IN CASE??? LOL!

But when I look at the Flex bundles, there are just some main channels for us that aren't available in Flex (like NBC Sports.) And I quickly end up with a package where the AT standard packs are a better deal. However, I could easily see where someone like my parents could end up with a much cheaper package than what they currently have and they would have everything they watch now plus some.


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

inkahauts said:


> See me, the sports pack is what I find the best value. I can get everything else via Netflix streaming or DVD. All I have to do is be patient. Sports is what keeps me. I wouldn't be surprised if the sports and locals are the most popular and that's it.


The 50 channel original Flex pack looks very good for me,time to say goodbye to ATHD 120.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Watching channels not available in Flex immediately kills Flex as an option for me. It is also interesting to see channels I watch in different Pack add ons (not counting locals) ... so adding one pack wouldn't be enough to get everything I watch today (even ignoring the channels not in Flex).

Destined to fail?


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## fudpucker (Jul 23, 2007)

James Long said:


> Watching channels not available in Flex immediately kills Flex as an option for me. It is also interesting to see channels I watch in different Pack add ons (not counting locals) ... so adding one pack wouldn't be enough to get everything I watch today (even ignoring the channels not in Flex).
> 
> Destined to fail?


I suspect it may be popular with a lot of people, especially those who don't already sub to Dish or DTV and have pretty simple needs/wants.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

James Long said:


> Watching channels not available in Flex immediately kills Flex as an option for me. It is also interesting to see channels I watch in different Pack add ons (not counting locals) ... so adding one pack wouldn't be enough to get everything I watch today (even ignoring the channels not in Flex).
> 
> Destined to fail?


I don't think it is destined to fail at all.

Some will make the choice even if it doesn't include channels they normally watch. For instance, overall the Flex Pack+locals+national sports fits me pretty well and saves money over the T120 non-plus.

But this month the Olympics was enough of a draw to change to the T200 to get the channels. Next month I'll be back on Flex Pack.

Will I lose some channels I might watch on occasion? Yes. But are those channels worth the $25/month more it costs? For me the answer is no for most of the year.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## fudpucker (Jul 23, 2007)

Yeah, I think we often, in forums like this, forget that we are not representative of most people who subscribe to Dish (or Directv or Time Warner, etc.) The fact that we read and post on a DBS forum means we are WAYYYYYYY more into the details of this than 99% of subscribers. I've got a friend at work, smart guy, Ph.D. chemist, who just moved to Dish from the local cable. The total reason: the local cable only provides one regional sports channel, and they moved to the one that carries the Twins games, and he's a Cardinals fan. Dish and Directv give us 3 regionals, Chicago, Fox Sports MW which carries both Royals and Cardinals, and Fox sports north that carries Twins. His entire research was asking me how I was watching the Royals, me telling him Directv and Dish carry those regionals. him calling Directv and Dish and getting prices, then choosing Dish for the price and two year price lock. I did tell him to ask for a Hopper 3, and a 4K Joey, which he did. He has no idea about the Tribune disputes, timer end times and padding differences, BBC World News, etc. 

For a LOT of people, getting their locals and the handful of channels they like whether its sports or news or whatever they prefer is all they need. They call and let whatever CSR they get tell them what they need. For these people, the Flex will probably do very, very well.


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## Tiny (Feb 1, 2009)

Fixed income people will love this flex package it all about choices and what your wallet can stand


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## fudpucker (Jul 23, 2007)

Tiny said:


> Fixed income people will love this flex package it all about choices and what your wallet can stand


Yeah, I just talked to my parents (over 70!) who have a Directv package that has WAY more channels than they need or watch about this. When I visit them next we'll probably set up a change.


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

Yes, I have a lot of friends that have Dish & Direct. They do not follow any of this. They want their channels and that is it. The Tribune/Sinclair, etc does affect them as they lose the channel(s). They do not understand why those channels are not available in many cases. That is why they jump ship. I know people that go back and forth between the 3 carriers here, Dish, Direct, & Charter. Whoever can give them the best deal. When the deals run out they move to someone else. I could not do that. With Dish I am used to their lineup, channel numbers, equipment. Plus goodbye Super stations as well as many other other channels.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

I used to be one of the switchers, always chasing the best deal. And it was relatively easy since the channels I watch are available regardless of which service I'm on. But the Hopper and especially the Hopper 3 is just such a sweet DVR that I'm not interested in doing that any more.

The addition of the Flex Packs has just made it sweeter for me. Get the channels I really care about in the non-premium packages for $10/month less than the T120 which was the lowest I was willing to go to. Add in all the premiums on one deal or another and I have a bill under $100/month with more than enough to watch.

Lloyd from the Pixel


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

Jhon69 said:


> The 50 channel original Flex pack looks very good for me,time to say goodbye to ATHD 120.


Well I thought it was time for the flex pack,so I called Dish this morning and said cancel my account,the call went to the Loyalty Department.

All the CSR offered me was AT200 for the AT120's price.I own my VIP922,but still no offer for a Hopper 3,no flex packs??.

Think I figured it out......Everybody's leaving!!! and that includes me.Bye Dish! :wave:


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## rcamburn (Jun 19, 2010)

Is BBC America part of the FLEX package? I see that its in DirecTV's basic package....


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

No, BBCA isn't in it. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

From what I can tell so far, American Heroes, Angel One, Angel Two, BBC America, Believers Voice of Victory, C-SPAN2, CBS Sports, Centric, Chiller, Daystar, Destination America, El Rey, ESPNEWS, ESPNU, Esquire, Fido, FM, Fusion, FYI, Gaither, getTV, Golf Channel, Laff, Logo, MLB Network, MTV, MTV Classic, MTV Live, Nat Geo Wild, NBA TV, NBCSN, NFL Network, NHL Network, Nickelodeon, Oxygen, Pursuit, RT, SBN, Science, Smithsonian, Sundance TV, Tennis Channel, TeenNick, Viceland and Z Living are not part of any Flex package.

The west coast feeds of CN and Disney Channel are marked as not available on the comparison, but I don't know if that's a mistake. The national feeds of Ion, Azteca, Telemundo and Univision are also marked not available, but if you have a local affiliate it's available via the locals addon, and Azteca, Telemundo and Univison are probably available with the Latino Addon.

I also don't know if when they say "Regional Sports Networks Included" for the Regional Action addon, if it just means that you get your local RSNs, or if you also get the non-game content from out of market RSNs that would otherwise need Multisport.

Is there any others missing?


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## xmguy (Mar 27, 2008)

KyL416 said:


> From what I can tell so far, American Heroes, Angel One, Angel Two, BBC America, Believers Voice of Victory, C-SPAN2, CBS Sports, Centric, Chiller, Daystar, Destination America, El Rey, ESPNEWS, ESPNU, Esquire, Fido, FM, Fusion, FYI, Gaither, getTV, Golf Channel, Laff, Logo, MLB Network, MTV, MTV Classic, MTV Live, Nat Geo Wild, NBA TV, NBCSN, NFL Network, NHL Network, Nickelodeon, Oxygen, Pursuit, RT, SBN, Science, Smithsonian, Sundance TV, Tennis Channel, TeenNick, Viceland and Z Living are not part of any Flex package.
> 
> The west coast feeds of CN and Disney Channel are marked as not available on the comparison, but I don't know if that's a mistake. The national feeds of Ion, Azteca, Telemundo and Univision are also marked not available, but if you have a local affiliate it's available via the locals addon, and Azteca, Telemundo and Univison are probably available with the Latino Addon.
> 
> ...


Boy that's a lot. If they offer a flex/add-on packages, that should cover all channels available now.

Then if you stay on a AT plan you lose out on BBC world news, and the MTV music channels.

Way to go dish.


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## Chihuahua (Sep 8, 2007)

Could this end up becoming Dish Network's Edsel (or possibly Hudson Jet)?


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## fudpucker (Jul 23, 2007)

Chihuahua said:


> Could this end up becoming Dish Network's Edsel (or possibly Hudson Jet)?


I predict the opposite: I expect it to be very popular. Not for people like those here, but for the more mainstream subscribers. Buddy at work today just switched to it; all he wants is a few key sports channels that he could get in the sports pack, the local networks, and the mainstream channels that come in the base package. He's very happy with this setup and saving money. I would bet there are a lot of people like him out there.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Yep, the Flex Pack+Locals+National Sports is a very nice combination. I think the Flex Pack idea will really catch on for many, including many here. It saves some money, has most of the major channels and some not so major ones.

I have this thought in the back of my mind that some of the time it was taking in recent contract negotiations had something to do with the design of what is offered in them. Hopefully going forward some more add-on packages can be offered to fill in some of the holes. With the flexibility of adding and subtracting add-ons with no penalty, I can see some switching around as show/events change during the year.

For instance, this summer the locals just didn't have anything on that I watched that I couldn't get OTA. Can't get all the channels, but can get a few. So that would have covered the local news which was almost the only thing of interest all summer for me. I could have dropped them over the summer and pick them back up when their prime season starts.

Lloyd from the Pixel


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Just a quick thought. I would have jumped all over an "Olympics Pack" if it had been offered at $10. As it was, I ended up jumping up to the T200 to get the Olympics in all its glory. But I came very close to not doing that as it is $25 higher than what the Flex+locals+Nat. Sports was costing. When the Olympics are over I'll drop back.

Lloyd from the Pixel


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## satcrazy (Mar 16, 2011)

It's called "gotcha" plan.

The channels not bundled in kyl416 list forces you back to a regular package.

There are at least a dozen listed that I watch on a regular basis. Non are sports, most are what I call informative [ AHC, Smithsonian, natgeo, zliving, etc.]

What channel is believers voice of victory? Science? Pursuit?

Shame, really. If Dish thought this out more thoroughly they would lose less subs and keep a lot more [subs] happy.

I get offers from Direct and Time Warner on a weekly basis, as I'm positive many do as well.

Why not be King of the heap and do it right? Dish is missing the mark.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Lots of sour grapes in that.. 

Dish is most likely offering the most they can in the Flex Pack according to the contracts they have with the content providers. 

That channels are missing that you want just means that the Flex Pack isn't for you. It isn't designed to be for everyone.

Lloyd from the Pixel


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## satcrazy (Mar 16, 2011)

lparsons21 said:


> Lots of sour grapes in that..
> 
> Dish is most likely offering the most they can in the Flex Pack according to the contracts they have with the content providers.
> 
> ...


Not really meant to be :grin:

Explain what you mean about the "contract" thing. Isn't sundance part of AMC?

You are right about flex not being for me [now] Unless they expand the bundles.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Hard to explain what might be in the various contracts since we don't get to see them. I'm of the opinion that the Flex Packs were part of the more recent negotiations, but an opinion is all it is. I don't have any 'inside' info either... 

Lloyd from the Pixel


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

satcrazy said:


> Isn't sundance part of AMC?


Sundance and BBC America are part of AMC Networks
Centric, Logo, Nickeldoeon, MTV, MTV Classic, MTV Live and TeenNick are part of Viacom
American Heroes, Destination America and Science are part of Discovery
FYI and Viceland are part of A&E Networks
Chiller, Esquire, Golf Channel, NBCSN and Oxygen are part of NBCU
CBS Sports and Smithsonian are part of CBS
Nat Geo Wild is part of Fox
ESPNEWS, ESPNU and Fusion are part of Disney/ESPN (Disney is in the process of giving their half of Fusion to Univision, but all current contracts are still with Disney)
El Rey is part of the Univision contract
FM is sister channels with Fuse, but Dish is probably still under the old Nuvo/SiTV contract that predates them owning Fuse

All of the above have some of their sister stations in the Flex packages, while as of now BBC World News (who's US contracts are handled by AMC Networks) and the Viacom music channels are only in the Flex packages.

I don't know if it's the same with Dish, but on DirecTV at least some of those other non-Flex channels like SBN are paying to be on the lineup. And with DirecTV because of the one channel per owner thing, only C-SPAN counts towards the P/I quota while C-SPAN2 doesn't, since Dish has to follow the same P/I rules, it would explain why there's C-SPAN but no C-SPAN2.


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## fudpucker (Jul 23, 2007)

satcrazy said:


> It's called "gotcha" plan.
> 
> The channels not bundled in kyl416 list forces you back to a regular package.
> 
> ...


Not sure I understand where you're coming from here.

This isn't intended to replace the regular packages. They aren't trying to offer something that will make every AT 200 or other package subscriber move to Flex. This is something offered as an option.

As such, it provides Dish subscribers another choice. A choice that Directv doesn't currently offer. Choice is good.

So, compared to, say, Directv. Dish has standard packages that pretty much line up side by side with the Directv packages. The way they have competed for many years.

But now Dish offers something people have been asking for for a long time. More options. The ability to put together you own customized package. Again - not intended to replace the standard packages. They're pretty up front with that. If you start adding a ton of channels you'll get a notice that you'll save money with ATXXX package, and they even tell you what else you'll get and what you won't get.

This is an option, IMO, people like my buddy at work, who only wants ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox, the local news, and some sports. That's all he watches. Perfect. Or my parents - they watch the local news and a handful of channels like History, Discovery, etc. This is perfect for them.

Me, at first I THOUGHT it was for me, because we think we only watch about 25 channels or so. But when we started looking at what we want to drop, we find ourselves saying, well, we PROBABLY wouldn't watch that, but who knows we MAY want to. LOL! So we end up with the 200 channel packages. Not meant for us.

I think it's brilliant. It gets Dish a lot of good press, it offers something Directv doesn't offer, provides more choices than what we had in the past. Again, it;'s not meant to replace the main packages nor do I expect that they expect for a huge percentage of current subscribers to switch to it.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

fudpucker said:


> I predict the opposite: I expect it to be very popular. Not for people like those here, but for the more mainstream subscribers. Buddy at work today just switched to it; all he wants is a few key sports channels that he could get in the sports pack, the local networks, and the mainstream channels that come in the base package. He's very happy with this setup and saving money. I would bet there are a lot of people like him out there.


I'm a people here, I switched to the Flex Pack and I also am a very happy camper because I'm getting "far more bang for the buck" than I did two years ago.

There's a need to be realistic. The long established "traditional" cable package is only now falling apart. We used to see options still available that look like this:

America's Everything Pack - $139.99
America's Top 250 - $89.99
America's Top 200 - $79.99
America's Top 120+ - $69.99
Dish did and continues to offer packages under $50 for the budget minded:

Dish America - $49.99
Smart Pack - $36.99
Welcome Pack - $19.99
Subject to varying rules, there are a number of premium, a la carte, international, and a few other add ons.

Now there's the Flex Pack - $34.99 with these add on Channel Packs:

Locals Pack - $10
National Action Pack - $10
News Pack - $10
Regional Action Pack - $10
Variety Pack - $6
Kid's Pack - $10
Heartland Pack - $6
Outdoor Pack - $4
Subject to varying rules, there are a number of premium, a la carte, international, and a few other add ons.
So what has this meant to me?

_*How the changes have affected me*_

For years I subscribed to AT200 (now at $79.99) plus I had premiums. Then I dropped back and forth between AT120 (now at $64.99) and AT200. And it wasn't like the AT packages didn't leave me without like-to-have channels.

Then I finally was buying a number of streaming services so I gave up one channel I liked to watch plus all the SiriusXM channels by dropping to Dish America (now at $49.99).

During these past periods I subscribed to premiums - HBO, Showtime, and Starz, turning them on and off.

Now there's the Flex Pack at $34.99 (giving me back one channel I wanted) to which I have added the Locals Pack, so I'm now down to a core package price of $44.99.

For reasons that confuse me, I'm getting premiums which are now basically streaming channels that appear on my bill as follows:

HBO Special Price - $10.00
Showtime 6 Mo (50% Off) - $7.50
Starz 6 Mo (50% Off) - $5.00
So I get the cable/OTA channels programming plus the premium channels I want for $67.49, only $2.50 more than AT120 without premiums.

Here's the important contrast that make me happy;

I subscribe to Netflix, Acorn TV and Hulu which when added to Dish brings my current total "all channels" subscriptions to _*$93.46 in 2016*_.
Two years ago I was paying only Dish for programming that included America's Top 200 at $69.99 plus HBO and Showtime at $26.00 which made my total "all channels" subscriptions to _*$95.99 in 2014*_.
For a person who...

thrives on scripted TV programming,
got tired of most sports maybe 20 years ago,
doesn't like most reality programming,
has no children in the household, and
simply cannot accept daily news as the entertainment it has become,
...to be paying *$2.53 less* in 2016 than I did in 2014 for access to a far greater number quality scripted shows is nothing less than a miracle. Sure there are a couple of channels I'd like to have that aren't available. But compared to any other package the Flex Pack offers me the escape path from the Disney/ESPN extortion tax (now $15± a month) I have been seeking for years. (I also like having the option to escape the locals taxation.)

So I guess while it's always nice to have more channels that I could get through Dish, I feel like this year I've seen a major change in programming package offers. Being the nitpicking critic that I am, in hindsight I think the PR folks at Dish should not have included any "new channels" announcement in the Flex Pack news release. But for "people like me" - if there are any - this change is a real benefit.


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## Tiny (Feb 1, 2009)

Flex is a alternative to the Comcast DIGITAL ECONOMY and that's what type of packages it should be compared to... what does Direct TV , charter, AT&T have anywhere close to this


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

I would like to switch to Flex Pack, but I will wait until after the first of the year. There are still several channels I get with AT250, I would not get with Flex, like Get TV. It is a good start, but I will see where it leads.


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## KevinRS (Oct 9, 2007)

I'm planning to switch as soon as the olympics are over, even though as far as I know, my family has only been watching the through the local NBC channel. I currently have dish america, the lineup is nearly the same, except for dropping espn, and some news stations, and will save $5 according to the site, maybe another $5 if I can get them to give me the autopay credit.
If they had an add on that added channels like science channel, smithsonian, nat geo wild, and BBC america, I'd consider adding it, possibly, it seems like there were more channels I'd have put in that category before. I've always hated those channels being locked up in the top tiers, with no other way to get them.

It's been for a while that I've disliked the tiers, back before dish america, I watch maybe a dozen channels in tier 1, would watch a couple, and at the end 1 in tier 2, and half a dozen in the top tier. I started in the middle, and couldn't justify the jump to the top, then dropped to the bottom when I would only lose 1 show, then dropped to dish america again to lose only 1 show. Dropping to flex+ locals basically loses nothing I care about.


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## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

I don't get at all the gotcha? Either the Flex system is right for you or not. It's by far the best alternative to regular bundling anyone has. With Dish having no first receiver fee it becomes an affordable alternative.to cord cutting.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

I believe people want better. It is a nice option if the channels happen to line up with your viewing habits and the tier options remain available so no one is forced to lose channels by accepting a Flex package.

But people want better. People want to be able to choose a "skinny bundle" that includes ALL of the channels they want and not pay for channels they don't want. That is not available. One still has to compromise and buy channels that one does not want to get everything one wants. Or fall into cognitive dissonance and convince themselves that they really don't want channels they can't get with Flex.


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

I totally agree. The Flex pack is a nice start, but we need our own Flex pack that has the channels we want, not what Dish decides. I looked at it and I would lose way too many channels I watch now. Even with add on packs, I still would not have everything I want and adding on all of that, would cost me nearly what I pay now. I want BBC World, not enough to drop everything to get it, so I will continue to just stream it via the Roku and Chromecast.


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## fudpucker (Jul 23, 2007)

While this is a nice first step, I think we're a long way from a true a la carte option where you just pick each individual channel you want. My understanding of the structure of the providers is that their agreements with networks/channels is set up to guarantee certain channels will be bundled in certain packages to assure those channels of getting into a certain number of homes. A lot of those channels would never be selected by most subscribers. Plus some pay the provider.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

I'd like the core package to include popular cheap channels that people may not choose to subscribe to but would not object to being part of their service. The difference between AT200 and AT250 should be a flex pack. The difference between AT120 and AT200 should be a flex pack. These shouldn't be the only packs, but the more options the better.

I understand that some channels may refuse to be sold outside of the tier system. Perhaps they can be put in the core (if cheap) or added to a bonus pack that is added when the subscription reaches a certain level.


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

Now Get TV seems to only be in AT250. I like the old TV series and I watch them a lot even in SD. But I would lose that channel if I dropped to some other package.


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## tcatdbs (Jul 10, 2008)

mwdxer said:


> Now Get TV seems to only be in AT250. I like the old TV series and I watch them a lot even in SD. But I would lose that channel if I dropped to some other package.


Says Get TV is on every package. Just checked and I have on Top200.









Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

mwdxer said:


> Now Get TV seems to only be in AT250. I like the old TV series and I watch them a lot even in SD. But I would lose that channel if I dropped to some other package.


Where do see that? I have it and don't have the Top 250. But even if was only there, so? If you MUST have a particular channel you can pick apart any system. Even A La Carte because a channel like Getv will disappear if people have to pay separately for it.


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## hsoj95 (Aug 6, 2016)

James Long said:


> Other than the press release announcing the Flex Pack the channels have not been announced. However, DISH did officially update their official channel guide PDF on their official website. So that should count for something. (I linked a copy of the PDF earlier in the thread.)
> 
> There are obvious errors on that channel guide ... but has any AT250 subscriber come forward and say that they are getting the new channels? Or at this moment in time is the guide correct and the new channels are not in AT250?
> 
> I am giving DISH the benefit of the doubt and assuming that they will fix the problem. But each day and week that goes by that those channels are not available at any price to AT250 subscribers (without dropping AT250 and channels that are not available at any price with the Flex Pack) makes the black eye blacker.


I can confirm that BBC World News is listed on channel 281, but it is listed in red, and I have to go to the "All Channels" menu in my guide to see it, and when I select it, it tells me to go to the "My Channels" section on Dish.com to check if I'm subscribed to it. I would absolutely love to watch it, but no way would BBC World News justify dropping the AT250 and going to the Flex Pack for one channel!

I agree with you, Dish needs to resolve this issue quickly for the subscribers who have bought the far more expensive plans, and who expect to get a lot for paying a lot!


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## fudpucker (Jul 23, 2007)

tampa8 said:


> Where do see that? I have it and don't have the Top 250. But even if was only there, so? If you MUST have a particular channel you can pick apart any system. Even A La Carte because a channel like Getv will disappear if people have to pay separately for it.


And there's one of the gotchas of pure a la carte. One man's trash is another man's treasure. Quite a few channels in bundles would likely disappear if everything was a la carte.


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

Get TV is only listed in AT200 and AT250 the last time I checked. Laff and well as Family Net are also not in Flex pack. As much as I want BBC World on Dish and the MTV channels, I guess I will have to wait it out, as I feel they should be in AT250 in time. Unless Dish has had a change in not having them in the biggest pack. Has anyone asked why we don't have MTV Soul, Country, etc in AT250? I still don't see BBC World listed even in the Flex Pack. So BBC World is still not official.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

mwdxer said:


> Get TV is only listed in AT200 and AT250 the last time I checked.


https://www.mydish.com/station/GETTV shows it as AT120/AT120+/AT200/AT250/AEP.

https://www.mydish.com/upgrades/compare-packages is the full chart.
(DISH does not show the channel as being in the Flex Pack on that chart.)


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

Thanks for the update. At least it is in AT120 and above. But me changing from AT250 to Flex, I still would miss way too much. If I added a few packs to get more of what I would miss, I still would not everything I watch and the price would not be that much less than AT250, with the added packs.


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## Wilf (Oct 15, 2008)

fudpucker said:


> And there's one of the gotchas of pure a la carte. One man's trash is another man's treasure. Quite a few channels in bundles would likely disappear if everything was a la carte.


Why is that bad? Am I missing something here - isn't that what's supposed to happen in a competitive market. Those with a successful product survive, and the others cut their prices or go out-of-business. As for niche markets, streaming handles that very nicely. There are thousands of pod/videocasts that cater to whatever your passion might be.


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## fudpucker (Jul 23, 2007)

Wilf said:


> Why is that bad? Am I missing something here - isn't that what's supposed to happen in a competitive market. Those with a successful product survive, and the others cut their prices or go out-of-business. As for niche markets, streaming handles that very nicely. There are thousands of pod/videocasts that cater to whatever your passion might be.


It's bad because a lot of those stations depend on the huge exposure in the program packages of cable and satellite to survive. And if they disappear because they aren't as popular as Foxnews, there will be a significant number of people who miss them a lot. They are the kind of channels where people watch and enjoy them occasionally if they're in the guide, but people wouldn't pay extra for them.

And of course a lot of people would say, fine, I never watched that anyway. But people say that about EVERY channel - you have people here who say the big 4 networks don't have anything worth watching, etc. Every time there's a fight over a channel, the forums fill up with people saying "let them drop off, I never watch that channel anyway."

I'd love an a la carte option that let me pick from every individual channel that is available from Dish and didn't cost more than my current package (AT250) and even better, less. But Dish won't do that, because a lot of the channels that pay to be on their list would never get selected.


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

I am a fan of old classic TV shows. I don't care if they are in HD or SD. I am sure I am in the minority. At least it seems that way on this list. Except for a ad free movie, I do not care if the program is in HD or not. I do like a good movie in the best pq, but old TV shows? We never got them in HD to begin with. I just want access. Channels I watch are Cozi, Get TV, Family Net, Logo, and OTA METV, Decades, etc. I do watch CNN & MSNBC, as well as local news. So if the less popular channels go away, my viewing would drop and I would miss the channels. Iwas pleased when Dish added Get TV. I have been wanting more of the sub channels. I hope they add more in the future. One nice thing, they do not cost much to add either. The only classic TV channel that is available OTA in HD, is METV. KATU 2.2 METV does run it in 720p, but it is not a big deal to me. I doubt years ago when these shows were on in the 60s/70s if we even had 360i, but of course in those days, we did not know the difference.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Wilf said:


> As for niche markets, streaming handles that very nicely. There are thousands of pod/videocasts that cater to whatever your passion might be.


Streaming just shifts costs to another provider ... usually an ISP. As bandwidth usage grows those ISPs are going to become more sensitive to their costs and raise their rates or throttling accordingly. ISPs that also resell content (cable companies, fiber companies) who also feel the pain of less profits from the content subscriptions they sell will need to compensate for their losses.

Losing a niche channel is fine if it isn't your niche. Otherwise it can be expensive to buy and support a replacement delivery method.


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## xmguy (Mar 27, 2008)

mwdxer said:


> I am a fan of old classic TV shows. I don't care if they are in HD or SD. I am sure I am in the minority. At least it seems that way on this list. Except for a ad free movie, I do not care if the program is in HD or not. I do like a good movie in the best pq, but old TV shows? We never got them in HD to begin with. I just want access. Channels I watch are Cozi, Get TV, Family Net, Logo, and OTA METV, Decades, etc. I do watch CNN & MSNBC, as well as local news. So if the less popular channels go away, my viewing would drop and I would miss the channels. Iwas pleased when Dish added Get TV. I have been wanting more of the sub channels. I hope they add more in the future. One nice thing, they do not cost much to add either. The only classic TV channel that is available OTA in HD, is METV. KATU 2.2 METV does run it in 720p, but it is not a big deal to me. I doubt years ago when these shows were on in the 60s/70s if we even had 360i, but of course in those days, we did not know the difference.


I'm the same. Cozi, Get TV, Laff, Chiller, and BBC World News. Those are about the only ones I care for. HD or SD doesn't matter to me. If I can see and make the people out, fine by me. I didn't get HD til 2009 and I was born in 1984. So I spent more time with SD and Tube TV than any.


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## fudpucker (Jul 23, 2007)

Somewhat related, in terms of alternate options: Apparently Hulu's foray into streaming is destined to lose money, even at a sub price of $40 per month.

http://www.fiercecable.com/cable/hulu-s-live-tv-service-will-lose-real-money-at-around-40-analyst-says



> Unconfirmed reports say the service basic package will start at $35 and will allow streaming to only one in-home device or mobile device. A $50 option allows for streaming to multiple devices.
> Both plans will include 20 hours of DVR storage and reportedly include either live or on-demand access to ABC, NBC, FOX and CBS - along with channels including AMC, ESPN, TBS, TNT and USA.


Sounds like a serious loser to me.


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## bmetelsky (Mar 1, 2009)

fudpucker said:


> Somewhat related, in terms of alternate options: Apparently Hulu's foray into streaming is destined to lose money, even at a sub price of $40 per month.
> 
> http://www.fiercecable.com/cable/hulu-s-live-tv-service-will-lose-real-money-at-around-40-analyst-says
> 
> Sounds like a serious loser to me.


No kidding. What ridiculous pricing, if true.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

I think the pundits need to be more analytical about the Hulu streaming concept.

The delivery costs associated with cable and satellite TV are much higher than the incremental cost of adding streaming to Hulu's current infrastructure arrangements. The simplest fact in my case would be that Comcast would be delivering the Hulu streams to me as they are my ISP.

If Hulu tries to match the high fees for local channels and sports channels they would get if I were a Comcast cable TV subscriber, they will lose the next generation.

I've said it before and I'll continue to say it, in the 21st Century ABC, CBS, Fox and NBC ought to be delivering their programming as cable channels and ESPN and Disney ought to be premiums.

Dish has identified some initial bundling concepts with the Flex Pack and Add-ons and in Sling TV's offerings. Those choices create some economic pressures on the industry. As have the "cord never" millennials, not to be confused with "cord-cutters."


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## Wilf (Oct 15, 2008)

James Long said:


> Streaming just shifts costs to another provider ... usually an ISP. As bandwidth usage grows those ISPs are going to become more sensitive to their costs and raise their rates or throttling accordingly. ISPs that also resell content (cable companies, fiber companies) who also feel the pain of less profits from the content subscriptions they sell will need to compensate for their losses.
> 
> Losing a niche channel is fine if it isn't your niche. Otherwise it can be expensive to buy and support a replacement delivery method.


The thousands of podcasts exist because it is very cheap for anyone to do a podcast. In the US, where broadband costs are high, it is because Comcast, etc. can get away with it. Elsewhere in the developed world, broadband is cheap and very fast. We are still about 20th on the list of broadband quality, with countries like Korea and Estonia near the top.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Wilf said:


> As for niche markets, streaming handles that very nicely. There are thousands of pod/videocasts that cater to whatever your passion might be.





Wilf said:


> The thousands of podcasts exist because it is very cheap for anyone to do a podcast.


I do not expect a "podcast" will meet my needs. Going back to your earlier post, I was replying to the claim that streaming handles niche markets. Streaming on the level of Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, etc. Not cheap and dirty podcasts. There are professionally produced short feature podcasts ... but I do not expect "podcasts" to replace a desire for long form programming.

I do expect internet access costs to rise as consumption increases ... whether or not consumers think the prices are fair.


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## shadough (Dec 31, 2006)

I tried to switch to the Flex pack today but was told that I can't. Need a new smart card they said. The G4 card is required and I have a G3 in my 222k, apparently. So i'll hafta wait till I receive the new card to make the change.


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

I was talking with my Brother in Law today regarding the Flex pack. Both of us thinks the way Dish went about this is really weird. Besides not having the new MTV nets or BBC World in AT250, and then not able to even pay extra to get them in AT250, or even buying an extra pack to get them, add to that, I would even need a new card to get them under any circumstances. I criticize Direct for not having certain channels both Charter cable & Dish has, but this really takes the cake as far as not allowing these new channels to be available without going to Flex Pack, losing many good channels,and all. I hope the viewer is flooding Dish with complaints about this. This is just strange. If I wanted BBC World with Direct, I could easily get it and even in HD. The same is true with Charter Cable. In fact Charter even has the MTV channels, and CNN International also in HD. If it wasn't for the Super Stations and a few other channels, I would consider jumping ship. I never thought I would ever say that as I always felt Dish was a leader in programming. This is coming from a very long time customer who believes in Dish to own the equipment. I have been with Dish continually since 1999, 17 years.


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## Wilf (Oct 15, 2008)

James Long said:


> Not cheap and dirty podcasts.


Many podcasts are professionally produced, especially the techy ones I watch. Dirty????? Not the ones I watch.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

I have searched this thread and didn't see a post that anyone has actually subscribed to the News Pack despite all the discussion about BBC World News, which incidentally is still listed with a red channel number 281. Channels available in other packs and other channels available in the News Pack are listed with a green channel number. But it's not clear what the situation is. Does anyone have the News Pack and BBCWN?


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

Good question. I thought someone said they got BBC World, but was complaining it is not in HD.


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## l'Aucherie (May 8, 2010)

I get BBC World using the News Pack, alas in SD.


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## xmguy (Mar 27, 2008)

I'd be more than happy with Standard Definition BBC World News in my AT250.


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

Fortunately I do have BBC World on the Roku, but it would be nice to have it on Dish. I still have no clue why Dish set up this weird thing, not having it in the regular packages, needing another card. If nothing else, they should at least have it available for anyone in any package. The same is true with the MTV nets.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Wilf said:


> Many podcasts are professionally produced, especially the techy ones I watch. Dirty????? Not the ones I watch.


Read the rest of my post and stop cherry picking. And if you didn't know, "cheap and dirty" means second-rate or second-class (or otherwise inferior). Not what you are lamely inferring by separating the words.


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

xmguy said:


> I'm biding my time until Charter improves a bit on their technology for DVRs. I sadly regret getting DISH. The Hopper 3 never works right. Channels we all should get, we don't. Just keeps adding up.
> 
> Charter has BBCWN in HD, not just SD. Dish will have to loose a lot more I think before anything will happen.
> 
> How many months has it been for Tribune?


Well instead of jumping ship to Charter even though your signature says you were with D* might wanna see if you can get a former customer offer with them. I just checked my parents TV and they have BBC WN online through my mom's account its listed in Preferred Xtra, Xtra, Ultimate, Premier. Also D* just resolved two local contract disputes (Forum Communications & Sunbeam). I suggest to anyone wanting to switch providers to get BBC WN go with D* sign up for Xtra or Ultimate. If you don't like sports do what my mom did and call in and request Preferred Xtra. Saves money and keep the new/former customer offers.


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## another old guy (Aug 23, 2016)

Flex looks like a great deal for me. Only one channel that I regularly watch isn't in the basic line-up, and it's in an add-on. (Animal Planet, but with no kids or grandkids, buying the "kids pack" isn't worth it.) About the only time I turn on my locals is when I want to see the weather radar because a bad storm has rolled in, and the satellite reception has likely crapped out by that point anyway.

So Flex looks to be a big savings over the $79 I'm paying for AT200. I have a 722k receiver, and pay $7 for DVR service. I'm a long-time subscriber, on autopay. Anyone know, before I call, will they...

-- try to stick me with some other fee, like any other kind of receiver fee or equipment rental or anything? I'm fine with the 722k and don't want a Hopper.

-- insist on a contract with early termination fee? While the local phone and cable companies so far haven't come up with a package to give me phone, internet, and TV as cheaply as what I've got (grandfathered packages), I'd hate to have many months' worth of savings lost to a Dish ETF. I'd trade no price guarantee for no 24-month contract.

Anything else I should be on guard for? Thanks!


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

Tiny said:


> Flex is a alternative to the Comcast DIGITAL ECONOMY and that's what type of packages it should be compared to... what does Direct TV , charter, AT&T have anywhere close to this


Not sure about the cable providers but I do wish D* came out with a flex option like this but the satellite providers are each trying new things like Dish's Flex Pack or DirecTV's Preferred Xtra

Here is how they compare Dish is clearly the more budget friendly of the two

*Dish ---------------------- Directv*
Welcome Pack ---------- Family
Flex Pack ---------------- (no equivalent)
Smart Pack -------------- Family or Select
Dish America ------------ Select
AT 120 -------------------- Entertainment
AT 120 + ----------------- Choice
(no equivalent) --------- Preferred Xtra 
AT 200 -------------------- Choice or Xtra
AT 250 -------------------- Xtra or Ultimate
AEP ------------------------ Premier


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## xmguy (Mar 27, 2008)

techguy88 said:


> Well instead of jumping ship to Charter even though your signature says you were with D* might wanna see if you can get a former customer offer with them. I just checked my parents TV and they have BBC WN online through my mom's account its listed in Preferred Xtra, Xtra, Ultimate, Premier. Also D* just resolved two local contract disputes (Forum Communications & Sunbeam). I suggest to anyone wanting to switch providers to get BBC WN go with D* sign up for Xtra or Ultimate. If you don't like sports do what my mom did and call in and request Preferred Xtra. Saves money and keep the new/former customer offers.


DirecTV doesn't have the smaller channels like Laff, Get TV, etc...

Only Dish and Charter.


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

xmguy said:


> DirecTV doesn't have the smaller channels like Laff, Get TV, etc...
> 
> Only Dish and Charter.


Charter and other cable providers only have them if you're in a market that has an OTA affiliate, provided they have a deal with the individual station to carry their subchannels. Laff is about to gain a lot more OTA affiliates in the next month or so as their recent affiliation deals are implemented (along with their sister channels Escape and Grit). GetTV hasn't announce any new OTA markets recently.

Dish only has Laff because of the deal Blue Highways TV made with Laff, the same with Cozi, that's via a deal with FETV and not Cozi directly. If Blue Highways and/or FETV were willing to pay for their place on DirecTV's lineup like they do with Dish, they would have got them too. If Sony is willing to continue the provider route instead of the OTA route for GetTV, DirecTV will probably get that too next time their contract for the Sony Movie Channel is up for renewal.

Even if you can't get an OTA affiliate for them, the bulk of their programming is either available via On Demand sites, DVD or syndication on other channels. For the currently Flex only channels like BBC World News, it's live news many times providing in depth covering of things other stations don't. Like this morning's earthquake, by the time the media got to the epicenter in Italy and the devastation became clear, it was after 4am on CNN, so they were back to US based programming and moslty focusing on the election, while BBC World News was simulcasting Breakfast and Victoria Derbyshire from the UK BBC News Channel once they got a reporter on the scene. For the Viacom music channels a lot of them air things that due to licensing agreements or label issues can't be found on sites like Vevo or MTV.com, and many times they mix in videos that you probably would have never thought of putting on a personal playlist until you heard them, either because you never heard of the band before or it was one of those songs from back in the day that you loved but completely forgot about until you heard it again.


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

Charter out here on the Oregon Coast carries some Portland sub channels, but not all. But they also carry some sub channels not available OTA out here like Escape & Grit. No OTA channels that run those. No Antenna TV, even though Charter does carry 32 out here, but OTA translator. Same with THIS TV. Many of the sub channel fare is FTA with a big dish, not not all. Antenna TV & Get TV are not. But living in rural Oregon, we do get 15 OTA channels via five translators, so it is much better than it used to be. Since Antenna TV is owned by Tribune, I really doubt we will ever see that. You are right, a lot of the old shows are available elsewhere, but not all. Like Decades is going to be running a marathon of the White Shadow this coming weekend, but the 3rd & final season has never been released on TV. Some shows are quite rare to see, so I enjoy the sub channel fare.


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## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

another old guy said:


> Flex looks like a great deal for me. Only one channel that I regularly watch isn't in the basic line-up, and it's in an add-on. (Animal Planet, but with no kids or grandkids, buying the "kids pack" isn't worth it.) About the only time I turn on my locals is when I want to see the weather radar because a bad storm has rolled in, and the satellite reception has likely crapped out by that point anyway.
> 
> So Flex looks to be a big savings over the $79 I'm paying for AT200. I have a 722k receiver, and pay $7 for DVR service. I'm a long-time subscriber, on autopay. Anyone know, before I call, will they...
> 
> ...


 If you do not want the extra discount there is no contract. You can keep your receiver and no change to fees.


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## xmguy (Mar 27, 2008)

I would rather have just those sub channels any day. I am watching Murder She Wrote on Netflix now. I just like the 70s and 80s classics. I've given up on TV shows like Pawn Stars on History, since they're not history any more. I miss modern marvels. But nonetheless, the only reason I care about BBC World News is because the carry the TV show Click. It's a technology show. I can't find it anywhere. Not with any regular upkeep.


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

Yes, I would gladly pay extra for a package of the majority of the Classic TV channels like METV, Antenna TV, THIS, Heroes and Icons, Decades etc.


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## fudpucker (Jul 23, 2007)

mwdxer said:


> Yes, I would gladly pay extra for a package of the majority of the Classic TV channels like METV, Antenna TV, THIS, Heroes and Icons, Decades etc.


I think you're on to something there. I would guess that a lot of the families for whom the Flex approach would be attractive would also very much like a Classic TV package.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

mwdxer said:


> Yes, I would gladly pay extra for a package of the majority of the Classic TV channels like METV, Antenna TV, THIS, Heroes and Icons, Decades etc.


Not all the same but have you tried crackle?


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

I have one form of Crackle on the Roku. I will check them out again. I have not looked at them for a long time, Thanks for the tip.


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## xmguy (Mar 27, 2008)

It now seems BBC World News can be added to the AT200 package and below. But not the 250. What sense does that make?


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

Now that is odd? I wonder with so many complaining, that Dish decided to start opening up the new channels to other packages. If available in AT200, then we will not need a new card to get the channel. But I want it in AT250, or at the worst, can add it.


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

With the Roku, I am finding more and more free classic TV channels. Roku now brought back Pro TV, and there is XTV that has old shows.


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## xmguy (Mar 27, 2008)

Mmm, might have to check those Roku Channels out. 

But if going to the length to add the news, and thus bbc world news to 200 package, then add an option for 250. I'd still loose channels I could not get back.


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## tcatdbs (Jul 10, 2008)

What's with Smithsonian? I don't see it on the free previews page, but I'm getting it on Flex pack. It's it part of movie pack? Thought it was only T250.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

What is the cost to add BBC World to AT200? I have AT250, and we should have access to the channel.


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## Troch2002 (May 8, 2016)

mwdxer said:


> What is the cost to add BBC World to AT200? I have AT250, and we should have access to the channel.


$10

Samsung Galaxy S6 Active


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## Troch2002 (May 8, 2016)

tcatdbs said:


> What's with Smithsonian? I don't see it on the free previews page, but I'm getting it on Flex pack. It's it part of movie pack? Thought it was only T250.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


Its a Free preview.
I had it with Top 200 a few days ago.

Samsung Galaxy S6 Active


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## Link (Feb 2, 2004)

mwdxer said:


> Yes, I would gladly pay extra for a package of the majority of the Classic TV channels like METV, Antenna TV, THIS, Heroes and Icons, Decades etc.


I would pay for these as well. I can only pick up MeTV off and on from a station 80 miles away. Our closet local stations, don't carry MeTV, Antenna TV or any of the others except they did add Laff, Escape, Grit, and Bounce because of a Nexstar deal. MeTV is still the top one and I wish I could rely on getting it all the time.


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## WelcomeBackKotter (Aug 3, 2016)

I have had the Flex Pack with locals and news packs for over one month. I have already gone back to Welcome with Heartland add-on. There were a few reasons for this. Flex, with the $5 discount for being autopay, is $29.99. Then $10 for locals and $10 for the news pack. The price then stands at $49.99. For me, however, there is no RT as that channel isn't included in Flex or the news pack. Also, no GSN in that combination. Welcome with Heartland (at the six month 50% discount which is $3.00 per month) is $22.99. So, both GSN and RT are now available. But Welcome or Heartland don't have TV Land. I really don't like paying for channels that I don't watch, so, unfortunately, Flex doesn't do much to prevent that. So, while Flex has some neat channels (USA, Syfy and others), the difference in cost doesn't get Flex past the goal post, and even if GSN and RT were included, it would still be way too costly compared to Welcome. The only significant loss is TV Land, but it's not that significant. And then, if there's still some extra channels needed, Dish Movie Pack, Encore, Epix Pack are available to Welcome. My overall conclusion: Welcome still beats Flex unless you really, really have a need for certain channels.


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## Tiny (Feb 1, 2009)

I switched to Flex with locals and Action pack so far it's great saved $25 dollars a month off my previous AT200 Bill and like that HD Net movies, AMC, and TCM is included plus all my favorites like History, Discovery, AE, TNT, TBS, FX, FXX, All us people on fixed income will like this option plus u get ESPN and ESPN 2 and the real kicker is FS1 can't believe that channel is included Thanks Dish us old Seniors love this sure bears cable crap lol


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

Not being a fan of sports, having a ton of sports channels in AT250, has always been a total waste. I spend too much of stuff I do not want. That has always been the case. Since sports is big with the average viewer, anytime a new general sports channel is added, it goes to AT250. Otherwise to the regional sports packs. It has bugged me for several years I pay through the nose for expensive sports channels I never watch. I have kept AT250 because along with the sports channels, Dish has added all new general channels into that package. So if a person has AT250, a new commercial channel would at least be in AT250. You could almost bet on it. But here comes a game change, with the Flex Pack. Dish has done something no other provider has done, the biggest package no long carries everything. The Flex Pack is a good idea, but there just is not the variety I would want, and add-on packages at $10 a pop. the price goes up to nearly what I am paying now and with the loss of several channels. The Welcome pack does offer a decent basic pack for $20. I could add my Super Stations, the Encors, and movies and cover mostly what I watch. But no TMC channels either which I like, but none in HD in AT250. . My bill would be $45 a month. Yes, I would lose a few things, but some of it I get OTA like Get TV. Between the Roku, which new channels are added left and right for free, much of the missing cable fare is there. But I will save half of of my bill, and have no sports channels. Not 100% to my liking, but with the current move Dish has made, this is the best thing I can up with. I have even considered going to Charter, but I would lose the Super Stations. One person suggested I keep a skinny pack with Dish and pick up a pack with Charter, but that may cost me more. I could look into that, but I do not want to spend any more. I am hoping by the first of the year, Dish changes and these new channels end up in AT250. If they do, I will keep the package even though I am still paying for sports, but at least I will have everything I watch in AT250. Again, this is the only provider that does not have BBC World in their larger packages.


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## jamelar (Dec 30, 2010)

VIP722K with MT2 antenna tuner.
I made the switch to Flex, added Locals and News Pack from AT120. After years of requests, finally getting BBC World. Most the locals, but not all, I already get with an antenna. I'm working on antenna improvements which when finished I'm confident will get me all my locals, Grand Rapids, MI DMA, as well as Lansing, MI DMA, then I'll drop the Local Pack.
Comments, I'm getting all the channels I want, except a couple of what I believe should be part of the News Pack. That would be C-Span 2 and RT (Russia Today). I was always under the impression RT pays DISH to be included, so I'm at a loss why it wouldn't be in the News Pack much less in the basic flex pack.
Wish list, add CNN International and Aljazeera (the still ongoing International English service) to the News Pack.

A sideline. When Aljazeera America pulled the plug, why didn't they move the plug to their International English service???? I'm sure there are some lawyers that can answer that one! After all, Aljazeera paid the owners of Current TV $1/2 Billion to acquire the channel in the first place.


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

Aljazerra as well as BBC News and CNNI are all free on the Roku. Plus Press TV(Iran), France 24, Euro News (France), DWTV (Germany), Sky News (UK), Irish TV, TRT (Turkey), Israeli TV, Russia today and their Doc channel, NHK (Japan), India TV. All English News channels. Before I got the Roku, I had no idea how many countries had English News channels. Some other International channels run news in English at times like KBS (Korea), Kuwaiti and Saudi Arabian TV. I also have caught the news from South Africa, Nigeria, and even Kenya in English. Streaming is really amazing.


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## WelcomeBackKotter (Aug 3, 2016)

After having had most Dish packages over the many years I've dealt with them, including for a month the Flex pack, I've made what is, for me, a final decision on these packages. Welcome is the most cost-effective and has 90% of the channels that I need. I can sacrifice 10% of the channels that I like for the cost. Flex doesn't have RT, so that pretty well ends Flex as an alternative. Dish America does have RT, I believe. Dish America is in essence a bigger Welcome pack. However, the cost of $49.99, being more than double Welcome's cost, is rough, but TV Land is in Dish America. Flex has the advantage of a $5 autopay discount, bringing it down to $29.99, but $10 for locals and $10 for the news pack brings it back up to $49.99, the same as Dish America. Dish America includes ESPN 1 and ESPN2, not so valuable channels to me, but maybe someone in the home would watch them occasionally. Dish America also has a reasonable number of news channels plus GSN. (Dish America $49.99 cost is $30.00 higher than Welcome, but $3 is saved with GSN being included in Dish America.) In the case of Dish America and Flex, there's not much room to maneuver with future price increases. Once again, Welcome comes in at the top, and cost is what propels it to the top. In second (overall) place, I would put Dish America and third, Flex. With the competition from Internet providers, I am very hard-pressed to consider any pack that costs more than $49.99.


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

If the customer has high speed internet, wifi the house and get a Roku. That way the vast majority of English language International news channels like BBC and RT are free on the Roku. If you like RT, then the RT Documentary channel is something else you will enjoy. It is free with the RT app on the Roku. Lots of interesting history on Russia and also other European areas.


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## xmguy (Mar 27, 2008)

mwdxer said:


> If the customer has high speed internet, wifi the house and get a Roku. That way the vast majority of English language International news channels like BBC and RT are free on the Roku. If you like RT, then the RT Documentary channel is something else you will enjoy. It is free with the RT app on the Roku. Lots of interesting history on Russia and also other European areas.


How does one find these?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

xmguy said:


> How does one find these?


Walmart or many other fine retailers.


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## jsk (Dec 27, 2006)

Does Dish pay for RT since it is available for free elsewhere? If not, why isn't it on the Flex pack?


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

I bought my Roku LT back in 2013 and it has been a very good investment. You can still buy the Roku for $50. I think the streaming stick is even less. There are now over 4,000 different channels available and most are free. I think when I bought mine in 2013, there was 1,000 channels. Many of the channels have plenty of sub channels. So there are thousands of choices. I have a big dish, I rarely use except for a few OTA sub channel fare like METV, etc are FTA. But I am the Roku a lot of the time. Check out the Roku website, at Roku.com. You can click on channels and see what Roku has to offer. You can check out Private channels too. A lot of the International channels are there.

Patrick


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

I checked again and I am getting to the point where I watch more streaming and DVD's I have collected of old TV series. So, unless things change before now and January when my discounts drop off from Dish, and I go back to $105 a month for AT250/Supers/Movies, I believe I will switch to the Welcome Pack/Movies/Encore pack/and keep Supers. That will drop me below $45 a month. I will lose all Sports channels, which I could care less about. I will lose a few I watch on occasion, but nothing I cannot live without. Some of those are free online or on the Roku. Most of the old TV shows that the channels carry on Dish, I have, at least the ones I like. We have several classic TV OTA channel now, METV, The Comet, Get TV, Decades, Cozi & Laff. I remember having AT250, or whatever it was called some years ago for $50 Yes, quite a few new channels have been added to the pack, but not enough to warrant a $30 increase through the years, and too many additional sports channels. Then of course by early 2017 we will have another increase. Add to that the new channels that Dish added are not available in AT250. All of it together, I have decided to change, which I thought I would do, as I do like the variety in AT250, but like with others the cost is getting too expensive for TV.


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## Blowgun (May 23, 2008)

If you did change your account, are you sure you would be able to keep the Supers?


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

When I spoke to a CSR sometime back, she said I could. The only reason I would lose them, if I dropped them and then tried to get them back. No issue as long as I continually keep them, even when changing packages.


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## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

mwdxer said:


> I checked again and I am getting to the point where I watch more streaming and DVD's I have collected of old TV series. So, unless things change before now and January when my discounts drop off from Dish, and I go back to $105 a month for AT250/Supers/Movies, I believe I will switch to the Welcome Pack/Movies/Encore pack/and keep Supers. That will drop me below $45 a month. I will lose all Sports channels, which I could care less about. I will lose a few I watch on occasion, but nothing I cannot live without. Some of those are free online or on the Roku. Most of the old TV shows that the channels carry on Dish, I have, at least the ones I like. We have several classic TV OTA channel now, METV, The Comet, Get TV, Decades, Cozi & Laff. I remember having AT250, or whatever it was called some years ago for $50 Yes, quite a few new channels have been added to the pack, but not enough to warrant a $30 increase through the years, and too many additional sports channels. Then of course by early 2017 we will have another increase. Add to that the new channels that Dish added are not available in AT250. All of it together, I have decided to change, which I thought I would do, as I do like the variety in AT250, but like with others the cost is getting too expensive for TV.


Maybe I'm not adding it up correctly. Wouldn't the Flex Pack with $5 autopay, the DISH movie Pack, Encore pack and supers be about $49 -$50 or so, about $10 more than the Welcome pack but with dozens of more channels? If the lowest price is the objective or really you just don't want the other channels then I see the Welcome package.
Also you could drop what you pay now by $15 a month to about $90 if you wanted to. Or by $20 if you keep Encore with the Top 200 that is really close now to the Top 250 and it would be about $85. And if you do a two year contract on either of those there will be no package increase for two years.


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

Thanks. There may be other options I have not looked at as yet, but cutting my bill in half sounds great. I just wish there was a way to have a pack like AT250 without all of the sports channels. I really enjoy a lot of what is on there, even though I am unhappy with not having the new VH1/MTV pack & BBC World. For what we pay, those channels should have been added to AT250. One channel I will miss is TCM, but unfortunately there is no way to get it without at least AT200. It doesn't seem to be available in a smaller add on pack either. TCM doesn't even stream. FXM and AMC now run ads, so I never watch them. I have friends in Canada that have Shaw Satellite and they buy a basic pack and have a lot of packs with 5 or 6 channels. It is easier to get what you want. I will keep looking until my discounts drop off in January. Maybe there will be an alternative I like better.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

TCM is in the Flex Pack.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

It is? Thanks. Now Flex Pack is an option then. I'll will check into it more once it gets closer. I clicked on TCM on the Dish Website and it stated that it was only available in AT200 or AT250 though.


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

I went and checked again and found AMC in the Flex Pack, but I did not see TCM. Also it was not listed in the add on packs either. Has it been add since the original info came on on the Flex pack?


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Go to mydish.com and get the latest channel guide pdf, it shows it there. The regular web pages about Flex Pack don't show it, but then again, they don't show a few other channels there either. I got the Flex Pack early on and got TCM from the start.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

Thanks. I am still considering my options, but at least TCM is in Flex. There are a few add ons. that may not be allowed under Flex. Now with the Welcome Pack the Encore pack is available, but I guess with Flex the same ad on channels are not available.
What I was looking at is Flex, News, Encore, Movie Pack, and Super Stations. Now I have AT250, Movie Pack, and Supers. Would that be allowed? It would still save me a fair amount each month. With the Welcome Pack, I could still keep Supers, but with the new card with Flex, that may not be allowed. I do not want to lose them.
Also for those who has BBC World, is it add free, or are there a lot of US ads on there? The streaming is ad free.

Patrick


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

The only legal feed in the USA is the one with ads, it's the same feed carried by Dish, DirecTV and other North American providers.

That ad-free streaming feed you're watching on Roku is stolen from Livestation, which is why it's only available via a 3rd party private app and the official app doesn't have it in the USA. The BBC flat out says it is not available for streaming in the USA:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-radio-and-tv-14563857


> BBC World News is available via a high quality stream on Livestation worldwide (excluding the UK, US, China, Singapore, Thailand and Malaysia due to rights restrictions).


It's blacked out in the USA because they went the commercial route here and partnered with AMC Networks to distribute the channel to cable and satellite providers who can then stream it via their apps (initially they partnered with Discovery). UK is because of the license fee so BBC UK and BBC Worldwide are seperate entities. The other countries are for censorship reasons, they get the channel on TV, but it's on a minute delay so certain stories can be censored.

The feed they get on TV in the rest of the world also has breaks when the North American feed has ads. (Depending on the country they either get ads or bumpers/continuity) You're not really missing anything, those stories that air during the break are filler stories that aired earlier in the day and are meant to only be seen on non-commercial stations that air BBC World News bulletins like PBS, ABC Australia and BBC UK. Each region also has different weather bulletins so weather for their region is shown in the morning and evenings.


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

I have read that FilmOn, in the UK, the company that streams BBC News seems to have some legal rights. What they are, I have no clue. The BBC has taken them to court in the past, only to find the judge favors FilmOn. FilmOn cannot sell the streaming service or install any ads, but as long as it is free, there seems to be some loophole. Any BBC channels all have the FilmOn logo. It looks like they are the only one with rights. But International News channels are popping up all over. Most are streamed by their government. One of the latest English News channels is TRT (Turkey). We have Russia Today on Dish, but besides Russia Today, they also have their documentary channel. France 24 as well as DWTV Germany is also on the Roku. I will say one thing about streaming, it is all over the board. It reminds me of the early days of TVRO where everything was free. Except with streaming there are so many more choices. But I would rather have BBC World on Dish as I could DVR any program.


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

By the way, there is a UK channel streams called Sky News, I guess a competitor to the BBC. They have a app on the Roku. It streams in 1080i and it is free. There are way too many International News channels on the Roku, that Dish will never get.


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## jamelar (Dec 30, 2010)

mwdxer said:


> Now with the Welcome Pack the Encore pack is available, but I guess with Flex the same ad on channels are not available.
> What I was looking at is Flex, News, Encore, Movie Pack, and Super Stations.
> Also for those who has BBC World, is it add free, or are there a lot of US ads on there?


I switched from AT120 to Flex. I had added Encore to the AT120, and continue to add it to Flex, no problem.
I also added the News Pack which includes BBC World News, a channel I've been wanting. As KyL416 points out, there are ads, although far fewer than the US based news channels.


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

Thanks. The Flex Pack is becoming more of an interest to me. I'll check into it a bit later on.


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## WelcomeBackKotter (Aug 3, 2016)

My mother switched to the Flex Pack from the Smart Pack and had the discounted Heartland Pack. She's going back to the Smart Pack. The Smart Pack is $36.99 and includes locals plus TV Land and Animal Planet. Flex starts off at $34.99 (no discount because it's part of a combo with the Frontier phone and internet service) and then $10 for locals and $10 for "kids pack" that includes Animal Planet. Heartland is $6 (no discount when part of Flex). Obviously, we have a problem here on cost difference between the two. $54.99 (and more with tax) for Flex vs. $39.99 for Smart Pack and including the $3 for Heartland (discount applies when combined with Smart Pack). $15 difference between the two, and yes, Flex has more channels, but those aren't the greatest channels around (contrary to Dish's "50 most popular channels"). So she will go back to Smart. I've already gone back to the Welcome Pack. Flex may work for some people, but, honestly, the cost is really more than what's necessary if you can accept Welcome or Smart Packs.


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

Since Flex Pack does not carry BBC World, without paying another $10, I am leaning against going to it. I will lose TCM in the Welcome Pack, but the $$$ I will save it may be worth it. I figure with Welcome ($20) and Encore's, Movies, & Supers, it will knock me under the $50 and I will not be paying for Sports channels. I spend a lot of my viewing on the Roku these days along with Chriomecast. More and more free channels are available on the Roku now. plus, if I want any more of the cable fare, there are services that offer them.


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## jsk (Dec 27, 2006)

I switched from AT250 to the Flex Pack.

Before: 
AT250: $89.99
DVR (722K w/OTA module & Sling): $7.00
Courtesy discount (I got this by negotiating): -$10.00
Tax: $0.96
FCC Fee: $0.03
TOTAL: $87.98

After:
Flex Pack: $34.99
News Pack: $10.00
Heartland Pack: $6.00
Variety Pack: $6.00
DVR (722K w/OTA module & Sling): $7.00
Courtesy discount (I got this by negotiating): -$10.00
Tax: $0.96
FCC Fee: $0.03
TOTAL: $64.02

Netflix: $9.99
Amazon Prime (w/educational discount): $49.00/year/12=$4.08

TOTAL (with Dish, Netflix, & Amazon): $78.09 (Savings: $9.89/mo or $118.68/year)

My wife and I lost a few programs here and there that we watched, but we have Netflix and Amazon, which more than make up for it. Also, we like that we're not paying for locals that we can get OTA (and get guide data and DVR on my 722K), sports programming and kids programming that we don't watch. Also, I'm happy to get BBC WN.


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## Troch2002 (May 8, 2016)

jsk said:


> I switched from AT250 to the Flex Pack.
> 
> Before:
> AT250: $89.99
> ...


If you would have just dropped down to Top 200 you would have been
Down to $77.98.


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## HobbyTalk (Jul 14, 2007)

Troch2002 said:


> If you would have just dropped down to Top 200 you would have been
> Down to $77.98.


But he wouldn't have Netflix or Amazon Prime.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

HobbyTalk said:


> But he wouldn't have Netflix or Amazon Prime.


That's the thing many don't understand. For me there is much "must see TV" on (in alphabetical order) Acorn TV, Amazon Prime, Hulu, and Netflix. Those are channels for content.

I can't get OTA so I have the Locals Pack. Right now we're watching one show on Fox - "Pitch" - which is available on Hulu, as are the few shows we watch on ABC and NBC. PBS is available for streaming. If I were to add commercial-free CBS All Access to my streaming, I could drop my Locals Pack, which I'm contemplating doing soon. That's five channels which carry some shows that are on our "want to see TV" list.

Right at this moment the core Flex Pack is giving me shows on FX, AMC, and TVLand that are on our "want to see TV" list. Without the Locals Pack I'm not sure its worth it to me. And there are streaming alternatives.

But truthfully, commercial-free (in alphabetical order) Acorn TV, Amazon Prime, CBS All Access, Hulu, and Netflix would give me more TV than I can watch. Which raises the question: "Why am I subscribing to Dish?"


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

Good question. I am asking myself the same thing, but in my case I get the locals pack, like you, but ones I cannot get here OTA, also the Super Stations. I do like TCM and some of the off the wall movie channels that often run things that aren't on DVD. Dish disappointed me when they added the new VH1/MTV channels only in the Flex Pack and BBC World. We have put up with disputes, lost channels through the years, and our bills keep getting higher, for less programming. I have been with Dish since 1999. I am not a Sports fan but I am stuck paying for zillions of sports channels in AT250, so I can get a few others I want. It would have been nice to have Dish add the new channels in AT250. The Flex Pack to me is not good enough. If I add on everything I might want, I am paying nearly the same as I am now with less channels. Fortunately I also have plenty to watch on the Roku and I am spending more and more time there. If Dish was to add the VH1 channels and BBC World, I probably would AT250, etc. I am waiting until January to see what they might do. If not, I am looking on cutting my bill in half, to Welcome pack, Movies, Encore, and Supers.


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## Troch2002 (May 8, 2016)

phrelin said:


> That's the thing many don't understand. For me there is much "must see TV" on (in alphabetical order) Acorn TV, Amazon Prime, Hulu, and Netflix. Those are channels for content.
> 
> I can't get OTA so I have the Locals Pack. Right now we're watching one show on Fox - "Pitch" - which is available on Hulu, as are the few shows we watch on ABC and NBC. PBS is available for streaming. If I were to add commercial-free CBS All Access to my streaming, I could drop my Locals Pack, which I'm contemplating doing soon. That's five channels which carry some shows that are on our "want to see TV" list.
> 
> ...


With Netflix and Amazon you will soon find out most of the content doesn't change much.

We have both of those, and had both for many years.
While they are a fine addition, Our household certainly couldn't live without some type of subscription to TV service.
And streaming only depending on your Internet provider could get expensive.


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

My son watches Netflix streaming and I get the discs as few old shows are available streaming.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Troch2002 said:


> With Netflix and Amazon you will soon find out most of the content doesn't change much.
> 
> We have both of those, and had both for many years.
> While they are a fine addition, Our household certainly couldn't live without some type of subscription to TV service.


That's true which is why I have the Flex Pack with the Locals Pack. By itself, for us the Flex Pack doesn't provide any "must see TV" and only a few "want to see TV" shows which emphasizes exactly how expensive cable TV channels on the AT### packages are for what you get. But then we won't watch reality show TV and have no need to rewatch scripted shows in syndication which together make up at least 98% of cable TV content hours.

I haven't yet abandoned Dish though as our redwood trees grow Dish has chosen to abandon this customer of 28 years by not sending out a tech capable of installing three dishes each on 4' or higher mount with the switching equipment needed. Even 10 years ago I could have done the work myself, but I'm too old.

Which brings me to...



Troch2002 said:


> And streaming only depending on your Internet provider could get expensive.


For us, not really. If my Comcast internet went up 31% tomorrow specifically because I dropped Dish and went to all streaming, I would break even on signal delivery service.

Paying for a high speed ISP connection today for us has nothing to do with streaming television. We have a long history with technology use and relative to the internet began with CompuServe in the early 1980's with 1200 baud dialup modems.

In our location today we are fortunate to have Comcast Xfinity high speed internet. We signed up when the long-ago bankrupt Adelphia put in a cross-country distribution cable close to us, long before anyone heard of streaming television.

Comcast was stuck with our ISP customer business 10 years ago when it acquired Adelphia's bankrupt assets split with Time Warner (and has upgraded the system continually). It was _subsequent to_ that Comcast-Adelphia deal when Netflix went into the streaming business. If we still had never heard of streaming television, we would have internet service. Let me emphasize that at this time the infrastructure delivering streaming TV to our home costs us $0.00/mo for streaming TV - we'd pay for our internet service with or without streaming.

Because of the Dish Flex Pack at $34.99 and the comparable Sling TV Blue package at $25.00, I can now get a feel for what I'm being charged for the Dish core infrastructure - $10/mo. If I went to all streaming, Comcast could add a 15% usage surcharge of $10 at some point and I'd still break even. But there is more too this.

To skip commercials I do have to pay Dish a $12/mo DVR service fee which is really for the Dish infrastructure known as the "free" Hopper. And here cost comparability gets complicated. Yes, I have to recognize that a Roku or an Amazon or an Apple TV box or stick costs money. But my buying that Roku _is not related to going "all streaming."_ I bought it to stream commercial-free Amazon and Hulu and Acorn TV content not available on the Dish box (Dish does have a Netflix app but mistakenly didn't hustle out to get the others).

So I have a Roku box, the cost of which will not go up if I switch to all streaming. Right now, not only could Comcast add a 15% usage surcharge of $10, they could add another $12 and I'd still break even. Simply if my Comcast internet went up $22 tomorrow (a 31% increase) because I went to all streaming, I'd be paying the same as I am now for signal delivery infrastructure costs.

I'm sure I haven't explained this well, but it's my take on me possibly moving to all streaming today and the implications of possible internet service cost increases because I chose to do so.


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## Tiny (Feb 1, 2009)

Why doesn't sling tv have Discovery channel or velocity in a package ?


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## Jaspear (May 16, 2004)

phrelin said:


> In our location today we are fortunate to have Comcast Xfinity high speed internet. We signed up when the long-ago bankrupt Adelphia put in a cross-country distribution cable close to us, long before anyone heard of streaming television.


Fortunate indeed. I live in a top 100 metro area (Spokane just makes the list at number 100.) and the best internet service I can get is from a wireless ISP that on a good day tops out at 10MB. Streaming anything is a hit or miss proposition and virtually impossible during prime time. Short of adding a service like NightShift, which downloads Netflix programing during overnight hours, I'm watching OTA, satellite TV or downloading Netflix, Hulu, Amazon or Acorn stuff from less than reputable sources.

Until that changes and actual broadband make it beyond the city limits, I'm stuck with either moving into town (or near a cross-country internet pipe)  or satellite TV. So for me, it's not an issue of going all streaming or not. I'd be happy just to get enough bandwidth _to_ stream.

As for Flex, I haven't switched yet, but I may very well do it and spend some of the savings on NightShift, especially if they expand to Amazon and Hulu.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Tiny said:


> Why doesn't sling tv have Discovery channel or velocity in a package ?


As i've noted this morning in the thread Sling TV: traditional television channel internet delivery both the Discovery Channel group and CBS/Showtime are missing from the Sling TV service. Like there were negotiation issues.



Jaspear said:


> Fortunate indeed. I live in a top 100 metro area (Spokane just makes the list at number 100.) and the best internet service I can get is from a wireless ISP that on a good day tops out at 10MB. Streaming anything is a hit or miss proposition and virtually impossible during prime time. Short of adding a service like NightShift, which downloads Netflix programing during overnight hours, I'm watching OTA, satellite TV or downloading Netflix, Hulu, Amazon or Acorn stuff from less than reputable sources.
> 
> Until that changes and actual broadband make it beyond the city limits, I'm stuck with either moving into town (or near a cross-country internet pipe)  or satellite TV. So for me, it's not an issue of going all streaming or not. I'd be happy just to get enough bandwidth _to_ stream.
> 
> As for Flex, I haven't switched yet, but I may very well do it and spend some of the savings on NightShift, especially if they expand to Amazon and Hulu.


Yes this is IMHO a significant issue for the U.S. True reliable high speed internet should be available where land line phone service generally has been available not just where cable TV has been available.

While internet TV is not the subject of this thread, I have to note how similar in approach Dish's Flex Pack system is to Dish's owned Sling TV offerings.


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## WelcomeBackKotter (Aug 3, 2016)

I think Flex could be a decent idea. But the $10 per add-on package, and especially with the locals as a $10 add-on, makes the price too high. Dish America isn't bad, but the variety is lacking. And why would TV Land be part of the standard Flex pack and TV Land isn't part of Dish America? And other channels that are standard within Welcome Pack aren't in Dish America. I really don't think Flex is where it should be, although all of these packages are leaving out channels. So, we are FAR, FAR away from the supposed concept of Flex.


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

Yes, that is my thought too. For what I would want with the Flex pack with add on's I would be paying close to what I am paying now and getting less channels. Too bad we do not have real ale carte, where we could buy the channels we want.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

The block to getting à la carte is not Dish or any other provider. It is the media corporations.

As you can see in the Dish Corp's Sling TV packages, you can buy the 40+ Channels package for $25 and the All Channels package for $40. That $15 buys you Disney/ABC/ESPN cable channels - nothing else, not even ABC which is in the the $5 Broadcast Extras package. That $15 is the first clear indication of what Disney would charge you.

My preference would be to buy programming directly from the media companies. Let them compete. If Disney/ABC/ESPN wants to offer you all or nothing for $15-$20 a month, so be it. My guess is that within ten years professional sports wouldn't have half a dozen $1+ million plus player contracts and Disney would have the worlds smallest audience for its shows on Disney, Freeform and ABC.

In the meantime, imperfect though they be, I'm looking at the Flex Pack and Sling TV's 40+ Channels package as a miracle of sorts. For this change in approach, I'm thankful to Dish and Charlie.


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

I do have BBC News streaming on the Roku, so at least I have one form of it. We now have Grit on #217, so another good diginet channel. As much as I do not like paying for a ton of Sports channels I never watch, I may just stay with what I have, AT250, Movies, Supers. Who knows? Maybe the others will end up in AT250 in time. Dish is still the best out there.


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## tcatdbs (Jul 10, 2008)

Got my first full Flex bill, $90, down from $135. All I miss is golf channel. What a deal! Now if dish would add golf to the sports package, I'd pay another $10. 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## xmguy (Mar 27, 2008)

I like they are adding these subchannels, like Grit. I would love to see the others too. But I will never understand their reasoning behind not adding BBC World News to the At250 package.


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

I have no idea why Dish has not added BBC World to the AT250 package. If I want BBC World on Direct or Charter Cable, they are in the larger packages. A person does not have to change to a different smaller pack and then pay extra for adding it. Add to that if I want Flex pack I have to get a card from Dish. That is crazy. Then by the time I add most everything I want, with some channels missing, I will be paying the same I am now or maybe more. No thanks. I will stay with AT250, for now at least.


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## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

WelcomeBackKotter said:


> My mother switched to the Flex Pack from the Smart Pack and had the discounted Heartland Pack. She's going back to the Smart Pack. The Smart Pack is $36.99 and includes locals plus TV Land and Animal Planet. Flex starts off at $34.99 (no discount because it's part of a combo with the Frontier phone and internet service) and then $10 for locals and $10 for "kids pack" that includes Animal Planet. Heartland is $6 (no discount when part of Flex). Obviously, we have a problem here on cost difference between the two. $54.99 (and more with tax) for Flex vs. $39.99 for Smart Pack and including the $3 for Heartland (discount applies when combined with Smart Pack). $15 difference between the two, and yes, Flex has more channels, but those aren't the greatest channels around (contrary to Dish's "50 most popular channels"). So she will go back to Smart. I've already gone back to the Welcome Pack. Flex may work for some people, but, honestly, the cost is really more than what's necessary if you can accept Welcome or Smart Packs.


Apparently in her case the Flex Pack doesn't fulfill her needs as well. But I would say you are way off about the channels in the Flex Pack, it is 100% made up of most wanted channels, it's what makes it different than anyone else is offering. You happen to want locals and can't get the $5 Autopay discount apparently. That's your situation, for the vast majority they will pay $29.99 and may or may not get locals for a total of $39.99. Everything is a choice, if Animal Planet was the one channel preventing me from getting all the other ones in the Flex Pack I would do without it. But if it is a most watched channel that would make a difference.

BTW TV land is in the Flex Pack so you are talking about *one* channel apparently, Animal Planet and locals needing an additional pack. It's all about choices, for her the choice that works is apparently the Smart Pack and Heartland. For alot of people it will be the Flex Pack if not the regular packages particularly if you are looking to save money and not pay for Sports but want most of the other Cable channels.


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

As much as I would rather go to a smaller less expensive pack, I don't see any reason to switch from AT250 at this time, even though I do not like paying for all of the Sports channels. Maybe in the future there may be a pack that I would like to save money.


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## jsk (Dec 27, 2006)

The nice thing about Netflix is that I can drop it for a few months and resubscribe at will.


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## Keniff (Nov 25, 2013)

jsk said:


> I just had a frustrating chat session with Dish to ask if I would continue to get EPG data if I switched to the Flex Pack without locals. The CSR didn't understand much about how the OTA module worked.


(Off topic) So nothing has changed, that's been my experience with Dish for 15 years. Right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing. I have never spoken with any rep that actually understands the full depth of what they are repping. They should make the field techs the sales reps too, because they often have not only installed, but also used the gear.

Being in a rural area where no one cares to run cable to you for under 20K like me...TV life is like being stuck in a communist bloc country. I have two choices for TV...Dish...or another Dish, so I am stuck with that...or locals only OTA.

(On topic) As far as Dish Flex? Please...these are just smaller "boxes" of selected channels. I still get 1 channel for every ten I pay for that I actually care to watch. I would gladly pay a larger bill and be able to select channels Ala-carte. I dont mind paying for what I watch...I mind paying for what I dont watch. I do understand a lot of this comes with stupid network and FCC stuff that is not Dish's fault...that doesn't change what my experience is though. Dish STILL cant provide local HD for me and I'm almost 3 years after my Hopper install.

(Off Topic) My other beef with Dish is they ride on other backbones (internet) to provide their service. If I had the internet to do everything my Hopper with Sling is capable of...I might not even have Dish, but I would happily pay dish for a good internet service that they cant provide. Features have outpaced capabilities.


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

Do you have high speed internet? If so, get a new a steaming device like a Roku. I spend more and more of my time watching TV on the Roku, where I do have many more choices. Many of the channels will never be on cable or satellite. Streaming has opened up a world that never used to exist. The best thing, is a lot of what is on the Roku is free. Also a Chromecast streaming stick, you can cast anything from Chrome on your computer to the TV.


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## Keniff (Nov 25, 2013)

mwdxer said:


> Do you have high speed internet? If so, get a new a steaming device like a Roku. I spend more and more of my time watching TV on the Roku, where I do have many more choices. Many of the channels will never be on cable or satellite. Streaming has opened up a world that never used to exist. The best thing, is a lot of what is on the Roku is free. Also a Chromecast streaming stick, you can cast anything from Chrome on your computer to the TV.


Nope, that's part of my issues as I mentioned in my post above. We have no real internet but there is a wireless internet now advertising locally that says it will stream movies, but from Netflix recommendations, I'm not so sure how well...for the money at least.

My speeds are great with cell tech 4G modems, but the data costs make using it for anything real like TV cost prohibitive.

That's why I said in my post above that if I had real internet, I might not even have Dish. We watch any movies we want to schedule ourselves using Netflix snail mail Blu-Ray discs, which we are used to, and the quality of a Blu-Ray movie is actually superior to even HD streaming from what I have read. Of course we do get free-views and stuff from dish which are nice, but rarely a movie we are really looking for. Sometimes I'll record a movie running on free-view that I would not ordinarily put on our Netflix queue.

I would be happy to pay-per-view all our movies through Dish but their prices are outrageous. I am not paying 4-5 bucks or more for a movie when I can get 6 or more movies a month for $15 in Blu-Ray from Netflix. We dont spend our entire life watching TV or movies so we dont mind the wait. We have plenty stashed on the DVR to watch in between Netflix stuff.

Even with no decent internet, if not for the Hopper DVR and the multi-room joeys allowing me to access the entire DVR and resume in different rooms, etc., I would not have Dish today. They cant even provide me HD locals...the slackers...I have to OTA those and even at that, ABC wont come in so anything on ABC has to be crappy SD through my Dish.

I'm thankful for Dish, but the cost is getting to a point where I would jump in a second for the first serious high speed/data service that comes around and put my Dish bill money toward that. We only watch maybe a dozen of the channels we get anyway...seeing as though I have to serve myself on locals, etc.


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

There is always satellite, but depending on where you live, what kind of rain fade you would get. We never had high speed out here until a few years back, when Charter Cable offered it. I put up with 28.8 for years (If I was lucky), and I just got tired of it. Then I get a Roku, and the world changed for me.


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

4HiMarks said:


> I don't get all the grumbling over one or two channels. I want to know if the Flex Pack allows one to get rid of whole clumps of channels like all the home shopping channels or the religious channels.


Those pay their own way to be on E*, so no removing them would not reduce your bill. Having the shopping and religious channels actually reduces the cost of having satellite TV. You don't have to watch them, think off them as OTA stations you can receive but chose not to watch. As a matter of fact many of these channels are OTA in my area on low power and/or sub channels.

Most of the grumbling is over one specific channel: BBC World News. Many have been waiting for years to receive it, as it's the only alternative to CNN / MSNBC / FOX News that is not owned by a former or current Communist country (RT & CCTV).


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## xmguy (Mar 27, 2008)

I agree on the BBC World News. Even though I have alternate ways to see it now, not with Dish, I am still upset. It's not even in HD, yet we cannot get it.


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

I feel the same way. Always in the past, new regular channel were put into AT250. I have no idea what Dish's logic is in making this change. Any provider always offers everything in the larger pack, Direct does as well as Charter Cable.


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## Keniff (Nov 25, 2013)

mwdxer said:


> There is always satellite, but depending on where you live, what kind of rain fade you would get. We never had high speed out here until a few years back, when Charter Cable offered it. I put up with 28.8 for years (If I was lucky), and I just got tired of it. Then I get a Roku, and the world changed for me.


 "There is always satellite".

Unless you have these natural occurrences called "trees". Satellite is nowhere near as good as cell based internet 4G type tech and they still dont have unlimited packages. If I cant stream HD movies for a reasonable price whats the point the point of having 18 gigs or even 30 gigs? I pay basically $10 a gig, so yes, satellite would be a bit cheaper not considering hardware and setup, but I still have internet in a rain storm with 4G...and its fast. We are data disciplined from years of cell tech internet, we simply dont do any streaming, internet radio, netflix, you know...all the good stuff about the internet!

Just like with the Dish flex pack, there is no perfect world, especially if you dont live in a city or wired suburbia. The U.S. government's "rural broadband initiative" has been a slow failure just like everything else they have done recently. At some point I hope wireless will blow satellite and cable away. You mentioned the Roku changing your life...you still need good internet for that I assume. It doesn't change the size of an HD content does it? It still burns internet.

Back on subject: Is Dish and DirecTV going to survive in the city? It seems like the best customers they would have are people in the sticks with little choice like me, and at some point even we will have internet that could make Dish all but irrelevant, especially to the younger generations who are not stuck in the mindset of the cable/dish box and the remote.


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

The change has happened. Sure, there will be many still on satellite or cable as that is their only reliable option(s), but as you said the cities will be different. The Comet, a popular diginet now streams. I get it OTA on 2.3, but the pq on the stream is sharper than OTA. The Comet is totally free. If a person wants it on the Roku, get Channel Pear and add it from there. This is only the beginning. Several OTA diginets are streaming now, more to be added soon.


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## JohnMI (Apr 2, 2002)

So -- I'm a little confused. Many of you are talking about seeing this on your account as an option, right? I can't seem to find it on mine. If I follow the link early in this thread to the Flex Plan info and click Buy Now, it takes me to the My Programming section of the Dish site for my account. I currently have the Top-120 package. For options, it lists these:

Top-120 for $64.99 (with options for Heartland, Outdoor, and Latino)
Smart Pack for $36.99 (with same options)
Dish America for $49.99 (with same options)
Top 120+
Top 200
Top 250
Everything Pack

I don't see the Flex Plan anywhere.

What am I missing?

(I currently have Top-120 with locals and a 722 DVR.)

- John...


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

One has to call to get the Flex Pack (or be a new customer). The online system does not allow you to change from the regular tiers to Flex Pack.


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## JohnMI (Apr 2, 2002)

Ok -- got ya. Thanks.

When I do the dish.com pricing thing for Flex Pack when not logged in and pick the Flex Pack with locals and single-TV DVR, it gives me a price of $49.99 total. (They list it as $39.99 for "Flex Pack w/ DVR (includes eAutoPay savings)" and another $10 for the Locals Pack.)

Anyone know what DVR model that includes at that price?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

jgoggan said:


> Anyone know what DVR model that includes at that price?


Not without doing a credit check. I ran through the Flex Pack packages last year "logged out" and the receiver offered without paying an additional upgrade fee varied based on the credit level chosen (as well as the number of rooms).


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## Troch2002 (May 8, 2016)

James Long said:


> One has to call to get the Flex Pack (or be a new customer). The online system does not allow you to change from the regular tiers to Flex Pack.


Not true, if you don't have receivers with G4 smart cards installed, the option will not show up on your account.

Otherwise its available to all customers as a downgrade or Upgrade online.

If you have VIP receivers with the G3 cards, than you must call Dish and the will send you the G4 cards at no cost.


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## Troch2002 (May 8, 2016)

jgoggan said:


> So -- I'm a little confused. Many of you are talking about seeing this on your account as an option, right? I can't seem to find it on mine. If I follow the link early in this thread to the Flex Plan info and click Buy Now, it takes me to the My Programming section of the Dish site for my account. I currently have the Top-120 package. For options, it lists these:
> 
> Top-120 for $64.99 (with options for Heartland, Outdoor, and Latino)
> Smart Pack for $36.99 (with same options)
> ...


You need to call Dish and get a G4 smart card sent to you.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Troch2002 said:


> Not true, if you don't have receivers with G4 smart cards installed, the option will not show up on your account.


In your words, "not true". I have G4 smart cards and the Flex Pack does not show up as an option on my online account. So it comes back to what I wrote. Existing customers need to call DISH to get the packages.


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## Troch2002 (May 8, 2016)

James Long said:


> In your words, "not true". I have G4 smart cards and the Flex Pack does not show up as an option on my online account. So it comes back to what I wrote. Existing customers need to call DISH to get the packages.


I'm not going to argue with you because I'll never win, so you believe what you want.

But with an exception of you 95% of customers have Flex option available online with equipment that has the current G4 smart cards.
A phone call is not necessary in most cases.

I suggest you look around the forums.
I've never subscribed to the Flex pack and The options are there for me and many many others.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Bottom line - if you do not see the option online call DISH. Happy now?


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## Blowgun (May 23, 2008)

If I use the "My Account" thingy from my receiver, the Flex Pack shows up for $34.99. I do not know or have the desire to find out, if selecting that core option would work.


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## JohnMI (Apr 2, 2002)

James Long said:


> Bottom line - if you do not see the option online call DISH. Happy now?


I will just say that I appreciate Troch2002's more accurate answer. The reality is that I hate calling Dish. As you likely know, most of us, at some point in time, have been told the WRONG information from a Dish CSR over the years. Sometimes, on a regular basis. Therefore, I avoid dealing with them as much as possible. And, therefore, I'd MUCH rather be able to do it myself online.

Therefore, I will take his advice, contact Dish, and just request the new card. And then see if that works so that I can do the Flex Plan stuff online. Looking around, I see many others that have been able to do that. So, it seems accurate that most people can do exactly that.

So, sure, if you don't see it, you need to contact Dish -- but Troch2002's info certainly changes what I would contact Dish about. I'm tired of playing Dish CSR Roulette over the years just to get the correct info. I'd rather try to get a newer card and then see if I can do it myself.

So, I thank you, Troch2002!

- John...


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## Troch2002 (May 8, 2016)

jgoggan said:


> I will just say that I appreciate Troch2002's more accurate answer. The reality is that I hate calling Dish. As you likely know, most of us, at some point in time, have been told the WRONG information from a Dish CSR over the years. Sometimes, on a regular basis. Therefore, I avoid dealing with them as much as possible. And, therefore, I'd MUCH rather be able to do it myself online.
> 
> Therefore, I will take his advice, contact Dish, and just request the new card. And then see if that works so that I can do the Flex Plan stuff online. Looking around, I see many others that have been able to do that. So, it seems accurate that most people can do exactly that.
> 
> ...


You're welcome.


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## Troch2002 (May 8, 2016)

Blowgun said:


> If I use the "My Account" thingy from my receiver, the Flex Pack shows up for $34.99. I do not know or have the desire to find out, if selecting that core option would work.


It will work.
All of your active equipment on your account must have the G4 card in order for it to show up online.
If you have Hoppers or even 211Zs they should have the proper cards already.


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## Troch2002 (May 8, 2016)

James Long said:


> Bottom line - if you do not see the option online call DISH. Happy now?


Yes, and I love how you edited your post.


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## Troch2002 (May 8, 2016)

jgoggan said:


> Ok -- got ya. Thanks.
> 
> When I do the dish.com pricing thing for Flex Pack when not logged in and pick the Flex Pack with locals and single-TV DVR, it gives me a price of $49.99 total. (They list it as $39.99 for "Flex Pack w/ DVR (includes eAutoPay savings)" and another $10 for the Locals Pack.)
> 
> Anyone know what DVR model that includes at that price?


Thats for a Hopper.
There is a $10 promo for New customers
Not a VIP.
The Credit check will determine whether you would be offered a H2 or H3.
If you want a regular DVR like a 722k you would have to specify that.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

jgoggan said:


> Therefore, I will take his advice, contact Dish, and just request the new card.


Please let us know if getting the G4 card (and not asking DISH about anything else) adds the option to your online account. Perhaps it will with an upgrade ... but my existing account with a G4 card does not have the option online. (It may be something strange in the way the account is flagged since I had the receiver with a G4 card before Flex Pack was introduced.)



Troch2002 said:


> Yes, and I love how you edited your post.


What edit? And what does it have to do with the topic of the thread?


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## HobbyTalk (Jul 14, 2007)

As a note, I've had my HWS since before Flex. I just checked my online account and the Flex option is available. I currently have 120+.


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## Keniff (Nov 25, 2013)

jgoggan said:


> 'm tired of playing Dish CSR Roulette over the years just to get the correct info.
> 
> - John...


Man...you aint lyin'. Talking to Dish usually makes me want to drink. As long as my stuff is working I am loathe to do anything, including make any changes. The quality of my channel feed is good, no complaints there, but its almost like they dont train their CSR's on purpose when it comes to anything beyond taking your money.

Phone dude working on the box near the road says their may be a fiber upgrade to the lines soon...I think I'll just sit in stasis for the next 6-8 months and see if we get actual decent internet here and then start looking at options. I'd like to keep Dish but the prices go up and the quality of customer service does not.


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## crodrules (Nov 21, 2016)

James Long said:


> Please let us know if getting the G4 card (and not asking DISH about anything else) adds the option to your online account. Perhaps it will with an upgrade ... but my existing account with a G4 card does not have the option online. (It may be something strange in the way the account is flagged since I had the receiver with a G4 card before Flex Pack was introduced.)


Do you have any *deactivated* receivers with G3 cards still tied to your account? (Even if you don't think you do, check with DIRT to be sure.) Once the old receivers are completely removed from your account, you should see Flex Pack as an option on your mydish account if all of your remaining receivers have G4 cards. Someone at satelliteguys had the same problem, and getting the old receivers removed from the account fixed it. I can tell you from personal experience, with my two dish accounts, that the account that has Welcome Pack, with a deactivated ViP211k with a G3 card tied to the account, does not show Flex Pack as an option in my online account, in spite of the fact that my activated receiver is a Hopper with a G4 card. My other account already had a ViP211k with a G4 card before Flex Pack was introduced, and Flex Pack always showed up as an option on that account (since Flex Pack was launched) even before I switched that account to Flex Pack.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

crodrules said:


> Do you have any *deactivated* receivers with G3 cards still tied to your account?


That makes sense. I have several owned receivers that were on the account before the Hopper. They do not show up online, but they could be lurking in the database.


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## JohnMI (Apr 2, 2002)

So, I have excellent credit. That would mean I would get an H3 then, correct?

Any reason to go with something other than the H3 if the deal is the same? I see someone mention requesting a VIP722k if I wanted that. I currently have a 722 and I'm fine with it except for some ongoing issues with it not recording the extra minute or two past the end even if it doesn't have anything else to record (it just plain doesn't do it sometimes!). I'm hoping the Hopper would solve some of that. So, any reason to not go with an H3 setup?

Also, anyone know if this is a hard or soft pull on your credit? I'm not taking a hard pull hit just for a Hopper. 

- John...


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## Blowgun (May 23, 2008)

The H3 is not for everyone. I'll stick with my two HwS receivers and two OTA modules for now.


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## JohnMI (Apr 2, 2002)

Blowgun said:


> The H3 is not for everyone. I'll stick with my two HwS receivers and two OTA modules for now.


Can you give more info on that? I did some searching but really couldn't find anyone suggesting that someone would be better off keeping a 722 than moving to a Hopper if the price was the same (except for some early-on beta stuff with the first Hopper).

Is there a good reason to keep a 722 over a Hopper3? (Again, in a one-HDTV setup -- so no multiple TVs or anything to worry about.)

Thanks!

- John...


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Please discuss DIRECTV's offerings in the DIRECTV forum (unless specifically comparing to the topic of the thread).

(Off topic posts removed.)


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## JohnMI (Apr 2, 2002)

James Long said:


> Not without doing a credit check.


Anyone know if the credit check that Dish does is a hard pull or soft one? I'm not taking a hard pull just to upgrade from a 722 to a Hopper. 

- John...


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## shadough (Dec 31, 2006)

I noticed on my Flex pack, I'm getting 1 of my Regional Sports networks now (but not the other one, which is even odder), plus all the ALT sports channels. Did something change? I thought the RSN's were only available in 120+. I dont recall seeing it when i 1st got the pack.

Also I noticed the Starz/Encore channels lit up, im guesing theres a free-view going on.


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## Tiny (Feb 1, 2009)

Dish added 6 CD Christmas channels to the flex package


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## sabrewulf (Sep 4, 2011)

My question is How much is Flex Pack after the 2 years is up. I would consider flex pack and the locals cause all I need is locals if I am going to stream instead. I live out in the boonies and antenna isn't a very good option. I only get NBC decently.


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## camo (Apr 15, 2010)

Normal price is $35 without networks which is $10 add on making it $45. At that time you could switch to lower tier Smart package with locals included if you are still streaming.


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## HobbyTalk (Jul 14, 2007)

Take $5 off for auto pay and you're at $40 same price as what it is now.


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## lee635 (Apr 17, 2002)

We signed up for Flex pack a week ago and are very happy. Flex lowered our monthly bill too.  

Thanks, Lee


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## crodrules (Nov 21, 2016)

shadough said:


> I noticed on my Flex pack, I'm getting 1 of my Regional Sports networks now (but not the other one, which is even odder), plus all the ALT sports channels. Did something change? I thought the RSN's were only available in 120+. I dont recall seeing it when i 1st got the pack.


The same thing happened to me a few years ago with Welcome Pack. It was a glitch. Whatever you do, don't make any changes to your account, or you will lose those RSNs. (Or you will have to add the Regional Action Pack to get them back.)


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## crodrules (Nov 21, 2016)

sabrewulf said:


> My question is How much is Flex Pack after the 2 years is up. I would consider flex pack and the locals cause all I need is locals if I am going to stream instead. I live out in the boonies and antenna isn't a very good option. I only get NBC decently.


If all you need is locals, have you considered Welcome Pack? It is cheaper at $19.99 per month, although there is currently no two-year price lock available for Welcome Pack.


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## sabrewulf (Sep 4, 2011)

crodrules said:


> If all you need is locals, have you considered Welcome Pack? It is cheaper at $19.99 per month, although there is currently no two-year price lock available for Welcome Pack.


Does that still exsist? Some places say it does and some it don't. I am looking for bare bones as I can get and still have the DVR service so figure flex pack is best.


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## crodrules (Nov 21, 2016)

sabrewulf said:


> Does that still exsist? Some places say it does and some it don't. I am looking for bare bones as I can get and still have the DVR service so figure flex pack is best.


Welcome Pack still exists and still includes locals. Bare bones would be Welcome Pack with a single ViP211k with an external hard drive. No monthly equipment fees, just a one-time $40 fee to activate the DVR functionality. Well worth it in my opinion. (You could use a ViP211z or Wally instead of the ViP211k, but either of those options would need an OTA adapter if you want to record from an OTA antenna. The ViP211k has the OTA tuner built-in.)


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

I bought by 211k probably in 2009, or about the time it came out. For a single man, I love the receiver. Nothing fancy, but a good HD receiver, with an outboard HDD (up to 2 tb), and the OTA tuner, as we have several channels (15) in our area, that gives me METV, The Comet, Get TV, Decades, Justice, Estrella, COZI, & Laff OTA. Some Dish now has, some they do not. No receiver fees and all I pay for is programming.


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## sabrewulf (Sep 4, 2011)

Pretty much all I am looking for is locals and DVR a few channels on flex has channels I would take such as Discovery and Hallmark other wise hulu will help out. Looking to keep it between $60 to $70 and I would be happy.


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## camo (Apr 15, 2010)

If you don't need a bunch of tuners you can go with 211K single tuner and add a 2 gig hard drive for recording. There is a 1 time fee of $40 for hard drive hookup fee. (HD purchase not included) The reason for doing this is avoiding DVR fee and currently life time free HD is offered. I did the welcome package includes local networks and stream all other channels with PSVue.

Package comparison here. Compare DISH Programming Packages | MyDISH | DISH Customer Support
If you don't want contract, pay as you go and purchase own equipment if handy with stuff like that. I learned years ago when I would set Dish up with RV. All my equipment is what I used to travel with but now permanently mounted.


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## mousemaniac (Jun 17, 2007)

Is there a list of what channels you can't get with the Flex pack and add ons.

It may have been answered here, but I haven't been able to find it.

I know that ESPNU is only available with the 120 package or higher and that Redzone is the same. Are there more?


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

Don't know if it changed recently but from the list I made a few months ago:
American Heroes Channel
BBC America
BET Her (Centric)
C-SPAN2
CBS Sports Network
Destination America
El Rey
ESPNEWS
ESPNU
FM
Fusion
FYI
getTV
Golf Channel
Laff
Logo
MLB Network
MTV
MTV Classic
MTV Live
Nat Geo Wild
NBA TV
NBCSN
NFL Network
NFL Red Zone
NHL Network
Nickelodeon
Oxygen
Pursuit
RT
Science
Smithsonian
Sundance TV
Tennis Channel
TeenNick
Viceland
Z Living


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## purwater (Mar 24, 2005)

I've read through the thread and I was interested in the Flex Pack when it was introduced last year. I was with Directv for 7 years and decided to make the change about a month ago. I did a chat with Dish and was told I could still sign up with Flex even though it wasn't advertised any longer. I wouldn't mind having BBCA, but since Top Gear isn't really Top Gear anymore it's not as big of a deal. We were able to get our important channels with the Flex, Locals, and Variety Packs. All in the monthly bill is $65 for the Hopper 3 and 1 Joey including taxes. With Direct it's $90 or so with their Select package that I was on for the past couple of years. They will throw in some discounts to keep you around, but after trying AT&T wireless and having a billing nightmare I decided I wasn't giving them any more of my money. So far we're loving the Hopper and the price is good. Even after our 2 years the price should remain reasonable unless they have a large increase.


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## crodrules (Nov 21, 2016)

purwater said:


> I've read through the thread and I was interested in the Flex Pack when it was introduced last year. I was with Directv for 7 years and decided to make the change about a month ago. I did a chat with Dish and was told I could still sign up with Flex even though it wasn't advertised any longer. *I wouldn't mind having BBCA*...


Since BBCA is frequently in free preview, you will not be without that channel for very long.


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## Jon W (Jan 27, 2004)

We called and lowered our bill from $117 to $59 by downgrading from AT120 to the Flex pack w/ locals and getting rid of our Super Joey which we rarely used and upgraded from a HWS to a Hopper 3. They threw in 3 months of all premium channels, took $5 off the equipment for two years while guaranteeing the price for the two year term. After the 3 months are up we will pay $7.50 extra a month for HBO. They also waived the install fee for the Hopper 3. Didn't have to argue once I threatened to cancel with the original CSR who transferred me to customer retention. 10+ year customer with excellent credit probably helped our chances.


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