# software fixes coming....



## Jon Spackman (Feb 7, 2005)

Mark, when we get the new software will it fix......

Im sure there are lots of things to work on, but what has been fixed?

Have they fixed the bug where the dvr list shows timers as well??

Also have they added the ability to see timers to the timers button on the dvr page??? (ie: if you are in the DVR page and you select the timer button, it doesnt take you to the tiemr management screen like it should)


Thanks jon

PS, I would like to thank everyone involved for getting things fixed (whenever the software is released). A lot of people ***** and complain on here about Eldon this and that and bad mouth them. It doesnt do us any good to ***** about these guys and then say "when are they gonna fix this..."

Lets just tell them we need their help and thank them for what they are able to do for us.....


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

> Have they fixed the bug where the dvr list shows timers as well??


I was not aware that that was a "bug".


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## Slordak (Dec 17, 2003)

Right, the "timers showing in the recorded events list" is an example of poor UI design, not specifically a bug. Basically, the software meets the requirements, and even if most folks don't like the requirements, it's still "Works as Designed".

Could we get them to change this to be more like the 501/508/510, and maybe use a more intelligent screen layout so we could see more than a handful of events on the screen at once? Probably not.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Jon - both of the items you list are by design. I don't think that they are well implemented, but they aren't bugs in the true sense of the term.


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## tom921 (Jan 21, 2005)

At the risk of throwing philosophical fuel on the fire, the best measure of quality I have heard is how well something meets a customers needs _and_ expectations. Meeting needs but not expectations, or expectations bot not needs, are indications of poor quality. Conformance to specs, or proper implementation of design are meaningless if the product doesn't meet needs and expectations. Specifications and designs can be the source of defects as well as software and hardware.


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## welchwarlock (Jan 5, 2005)

tom921 said:


> At the risk of throwing philosophical fuel on the fire, the best measure of quality I have heard is how well something meets a customers needs _and_ expectations. Meeting needs but not expectations, or expectations bot not needs, are indications of poor quality. Conformance to specs, or proper implementation of design are meaningless if the product doesn't meet needs and expectations. Specifications and designs can be the source of defects as well as software and hardware.


You are describing "Customer Satisfaction" not quality. Quality is performing a procedure or process and getting the same, expected result, every time. The opposite of quality is Insanity, which is performing the same procedure, but getting (or expecting) a different result every time. In the case of the 921, its operation leans more towards Insanity than Quality.

I would like Dish take a leadership role here. Publish a comprehensive list of known bugs, and upgrades, identify the release that they expect to fix the bug, and the estimated dates for the identified releases. If they published this information, we could measure their quality... Did fix what they said, when they said it, over time...

Hell will probably freeze over first.

Robert Cook


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

welchwarlock said:


> Hell will probably freeze over first.


Sorry welchwarlock it is already frozen over.


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## KKlare (Sep 24, 2004)

welchwarlock said:


> Publish a comprehensive list of known bugs, ...


But that would be telling. (To number 6.)



boylehome said:


> Sorry welchwarlock it is already frozen over.


Yes, it seems we have arrived at the ninth circle of Dante's Inferno.



tom921 said:


> Specifications and designs can be the source of defects as well as software and hardware.


Those should be the minimum. The programmers must go beyond them and make it do want was intended but failed to be specified.
-Ken


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

welchwarlock said:


> I would like Dish take a leadership role here. Publish a comprehensive list of known bugs, and upgrades, identify the release that they expect to fix the bug, and the estimated dates for the identified releases. If they published this information, we could measure their quality... Did fix what they said, when they said it, over time...


Show me what DBS/Cable company does this? I work for a hardware/software company that manufactures to Enterprise companies and we don't do this. Sun, does provide a mechanism for reporting defect and voting for their Java language but even then they don't list a specific release a defect will be added to. As nice as this sounds, development is to dyamic of an environment. I could just see the ranting and raving as a bug exepected for 2.37 gets moved to 2.40.

Yes it would be nice to know this information, but the number of Dish Customers that really care about such a list is small. We are recently seeing Release notes on some of the products and that is a good step forward. I doubt we will ever see something as comprehensive as you suggest.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

tom921 said:


> At the risk of throwing philosophical fuel on the fire, the best measure of quality I have heard is how well something meets a customers needs _and_ expectations. Meeting needs but not expectations, or expectations bot not needs, are indications of poor quality. Conformance to specs, or proper implementation of design are meaningless if the product doesn't meet needs and expectations. Specifications and designs can be the source of defects as well as software and hardware.


What you are talking about here it terms of UI is something called Human Factors and at times is very subjective. What my seem intuitive to you and straightforward may not to the person next to you. Lots of times you create a UI only to find that for certain operations it is a bit on a corky side. As a developer you want to fix it, but can't because of other priorities. It is one of those... Works good enough and does the job type arguments. The issues you mentioned I would consider fall into that catagory.

The Issue when you select and OTA to create a timer and the red dot appears on the local channel. That one is just plan a bug. Not a quirky UI.


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## Jerry G (Jul 12, 2003)

j5races said:


> Mark, when we get the new software will it fix......
> 
> Im sure there are lots of things to work on, but what has been fixed?
> 
> ...


Why not chose an appropriate thread title instead of a misleading one? Do I need to explain it further?


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

Ron Barry said:


> The Issue when you select and OTA to create a timer and the red dot appears on the local channel. That one is just plan a bug. Not a quirky UI.


What


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

Jerry G said:


> Why not chose an appropriate thread title instead of a misleading one? Do I need to explain it further?


A title like this sells. A real eye catcher. He is right, it is coming but no body wants to say when it is coming, not even Ms Cleo.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

boylehome said:


> What


What I did not make sense. That would never happen. The one i am referring too is when you creating an timer for an OTA off the guide, the red dot does not show up in the location where you selected the timer.

Example:

Create a timer for OTA CBS 002-01. It creates a timer but no red dot. The red dot shows up on the SD counterpart if I recall.


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

Ron Barry said:


> What I did not make sense. That would never happen. The one i am referring too is when you creating an timer for an OTA off the guide, the red dot does not show up in the location where you selected the timer.
> 
> Example:
> 
> Create a timer for OTA CBS 002-01. It creates a timer but no red dot. The red dot shows up on the SD counterpart if I recall.


Thanks, I thought I was having technical difficulties


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## Jon Spackman (Feb 7, 2005)

Not trying to mislead anyone. I appreciate all the help Mark and eldon give us. A lot of people on here have nothing but bad things to say about Eldon. If you think the 921 is such a piece, then F%$King sell yours and stop complaining! I am hopeful they will fix many of the bugs and make it even more enjoyable. I simply mean't to ask Mark if he knows what is going to be fixed. If he is not at liberty to say, then fine just say that and we will just have to wait and see.

I think that this is supposed to be a place to share bugs, workarounds, ir codes (aka support) not a place to talk trash.


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

j5races said:


> Not trying to mislead anyone. I appreciate all the help Mark and eldon give us. A lot of people on here have nothing but bad things to say about Eldon. If you think the 921 is such a piece, then F%$King sell yours and stop complaining! I am hopeful they will fix many of the bugs and make it even more enjoyable. I simply mean't to ask Mark if he knows what is going to be fixed. If he is not at liberty to say, then fine just say that and we will just have to wait and see.
> 
> I think that this is supposed to be a place to share bugs, workarounds, ir codes (aka support) not a place to talk trash.


j5races - I too appreciate work that is given in hopes making the 921 better. Every software update that was released for the 921, has "BUGS" new and old problems, some are chronic problems. I hope that finally the Eldon team can get everything fixed. Their track record does paint a grim picture. Eldon should consider starting over from ground zero and building up, one step at a time. E* should find a more compentent designer and get it done right if the next release performs like the previous releases. We, and maybe even you, paid for an expensive piece of equipment with expectations that it function properly. There is plenty of room for complaints. One persons trash is another persons gold. BTW when in the DVR Record Event screen the, "Timer" button will take you to the bottom of the page where the timers are listed when you have a population of DVR events the exceed the size of the page. if you select the timer that your concerned about, it will take you into the Timer Management screen. In conclusion, I'll be happy to thank the Eldon team once they get it to us and working properly 

John


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