# System Test - 2 Tests Failed!



## EricJRW (Jul 6, 2008)

1. Satellite Dish Alignment Problem
2. Cannot Detect Phone Dial Tone

Diagnostic Code: 43-72-342

Number 2 is to be expected as I have no phone line, only Internet. I included it only as it may be part of the diagnostic code. It's number 1 that I'm confused about. 

I'm not experiencing any problems, but I've never run a system test since my relocation (back in November). Even though I only have one receiver, this was a SWM install, so maybe somehow it's related.

Since the install, I did move the receiver, and I think I plugged the (single) cable back in the same place, but I'd like to double check. The single cable is in the left-most (as looking at the back) connection, which is labeled "Satellite in 1 (SWM-2)". 

Assuming this is correct, is there anything else that might cause this failure? Is it even a failure? My signal strengths are attached. I'm able to watch all the channels I always do. I understand low SS and zeros are to be expected, but I've just never know which ones should be low/zero.

Thanks for your help.

Eric


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

If you can look at your signal levels, and they're fine, then I'd consider this a false negative. It's a known issue.


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## EricJRW (Jul 6, 2008)

Stuart Sweet said:


> If you can look at your signal levels, and they're fine, then I'd consider this a false negative. It's a known issue.


Thank you Stuart. I was hoping it was something like that.


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## samrs (May 30, 2004)

I wouldn't call all zero's on the 110/119 a known issue.


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## EricJRW (Jul 6, 2008)

samrs said:


> I wouldn't call all zero's on the 110/119 a known issue.


Well that's the thing... I know zero's in certain places are OK, I just don't know where. This new dish is just a 3-LNB, down from my 5 on the other (pre-move) dish. But that other dish had 3 horns, but this one only has one. The technician said channels got moved around (on the satellites) so that the standard install only needed the one horn. That made a lot of sense to me.

And like I said, I'm not aware that I'm missing any channels, but then I'm only typically watching our favorites.

I'm just confused by the "test failed" message, as I don't want anything to be wrong.

I guess I'll look in the tips forum for satellite info and see if I can figure out what transponders should have good SS for my area.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

samrs said:


> I wouldn't call all zero's on the 110/119 a known issue.


It is possible that there are no signals necessary or available from those two satellites, or that the satellite setup is wrong. It's also possible that the failure is a false negative.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> It is possible that there are no signals necessary or available from those two satellites, or that the satellite setup is wrong. It's also possible that the failure is a false negative.


Since a 3LNB dish doesn't get 110 & 119, the receiver should have the SAT setup changed to a 3 LNB from the 5 LNB it is set to now, this should "resolve" the error [which is in fact a setup error].


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## EricJRW (Jul 6, 2008)

veryoldschool said:


> Since a 3LNB dish doesn't get 110 & 119, the receiver should have the SAT setup changed to a 3 LNB from the 5 LNB it is set to now, this should "resolve" the error [which is in fact a setup error].


I think you are onto something... I don't think the setup was ever changed from the old dish to the new dish... In fact I'm fairly certain when I was in the setup screens I did see "5 LNB..." (slimline maybe). I will take a close looks and possibly correct. No big deal in terms of operation, just annoying to fail a test.

Now I wonder if I can also configure the HR22 to indicate that I don't have a phone line, so no need to test that either?

Thanks for the insight!

Eric

PS. Do I have that single coax in the right spot?


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## mhayes70 (Mar 21, 2006)

EricJRW said:


> Now I wonder if I can also configure the HR22 to indicate that I don't have a phone line, so no need to test that either?


Unfortunatly there is no way to turn that off. I don't have a phone line connected to mine and it always fails that test.


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## GregLee (Dec 28, 2005)

veryoldschool said:


> Since a 3LNB dish doesn't get 110 & 119, the receiver should have the SAT setup changed to a 3 LNB from the 5 LNB it is set to now, this should "resolve" the error [which is in fact a setup error].


I wouldn't count on it. A week ago on my HR20 I was getting the Satellite Dish Alignment error when I had a 3lnb setup, with the HR20's dish setup set appropriately to a 3 lnb type. A D* technician did some stuff to change my dish setup to a 5 lnb setup, and my HR20 is now set to a 5 lnb setup. Guess what. I still get the Satellite Dish Alignment error. My signal levels are acceptably high (according to the D* guy).


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

GregLee said:


> I wouldn't count on it. A week ago on my HR20 I was getting the Satellite Dish Alignment error when I had a 3lnb setup, with the HR20's dish setup set appropriately to a 3 lnb type. A D* technician did some stuff to change my dish setup to a 5 lnb setup, and my HR20 is now set to a 5 lnb setup. Guess what. I still get the Satellite Dish Alignment error. My signal levels are acceptably high (according to the D* guy).


"Well" if you have a 3 LNB dish, and your receiver is looking at 110 & 119, that's a good place to start to resolve the problem.
I've seen the dish pointing error also, and retesting had it not come back.
I've also worked with someone with it and it turned out to be low signals.
His "bit-error rate" was good, but the actual [analog] RF level apparently was low enough to trigger this error.
Then there are the times when it is simply a false error.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

EricJRW said:


> PS. Do I have that single coax in the right spot?


You've got the correct spot if you're getting a signal at all. :lol:
If it says SWM, it's the right one.


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## GregLee (Dec 28, 2005)

veryoldschool said:


> "Well" if you have a 3 LNB dish, and your receiver is looking at 110 & 119, that's a good place to start to resolve the problem. ... Then there are the times when it is simply a false error.


I "did have" a 3 LNB dish, but now I have a 5 LNB dish. My receiver formerly did not "look at" 110 & 119, but now it "does". So far as I can tell, I do not "have a problem", even though the system test says "I do".


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

The Satellite Alignment Error may pop up if your signal strengths are not optimal. If it is cloudy or rainy, you may get the alignment error when it's not really a problem. Not much you can do about this. You should run the test when it is a nice clear day. If you see the problem then, an alignment might be in order.

The tests are specific to your area so there are expected strength levels. If you don't meet the right levels, then the error will be noted.


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## GregLee (Dec 28, 2005)

Doug Brott said:


> The tests are specific to your area so there are expected strength levels. If you don't meet the right levels, then the error will be noted.


Apparently they are not sufficiently area specific. My D* technician says the dish alignment error I get is because the system test doesn't understand that the average acceptable level in Hawaii for 99 and 103 is 73.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

GregLee said:


> Apparently they are not sufficiently area specific. My D* technician says the dish alignment error I get is because the system test doesn't understand that the average acceptable level in Hawaii for 99 and 103 is 73.


Another option might be to use the larger dish for Hawaii & Alaska, which I think is 1.8 meters.
73% really isn't that good.


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## swillotter (Nov 7, 2008)

did anyone notice he only had a signal strength of 30 on transponder 4 on sat 101. might be a typo...don't think trnsponder 4 is a spot beam anywhere..could be wrong though. could be a bad lnb


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## EricJRW (Jul 6, 2008)

swillotter said:


> did anyone notice he only had a signal strength of 30 on transponder 4 on sat 101. might be a typo...don't think trnsponder 4 is a spot beam anywhere..could be wrong though. could be a bad lnb


I will double-check that number...

Still have not had a chance to look at this further.

I definitely appreciate all the input and ideas.


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## gregftlaud (Nov 20, 2005)

I had the same issue on my bedroom hr20 yesterday. Ran the system test and it said sat dish alignment issue. I went into my setup--sat signal strength and everything was fine. Went into the living room ran the test on that hr20 and it came up fine. I restarted the hr20 in the bedroom ---did the test again and the dish alignment issue didnt come up. Just a glitch i think. BTW, when the system test does the satellite signal strength tests what sat does it us? B/c i was thinking since the spotbeam signal strengths (when checking them in the setup) take a while to come up when u check them maybe that's what caused the glitch.


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## jsmuga (Jan 3, 2008)

Doug Brott said:


> The Satellite Alignment Error may pop up if your signal strengths are not optimal. If it is cloudy or rainy, you may get the alignment error when it's not really a problem. Not much you can do about this. You should run the test when it is a nice clear day. If you see the problem then, an alignment might be in order.
> 
> The tests are specific to your area so there are expected strength levels. If you don't meet the right levels, then the error will be noted.


I ran the system test during our last snow storm and got the Sat Alignment Error. On the next clear day everything was good.....


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## GregLee (Dec 28, 2005)

veryoldschool said:


> Another option might be to use the larger dish for Hawaii & Alaska, which I think is 1.8 meters.
> 73% really isn't that good.


I didn't know there was a 1.8 meter dish available. I have two 1.2 meter dishes.


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## Newshawk (Sep 3, 2004)

swillotter said:


> did anyone notice he only had a signal strength of 30 on transponder 4 on sat 101. might be a typo...don't think trnsponder 4 is a spot beam anywhere..could be wrong though. could be a bad lnb


Satellite 101, transponder 4 is a spot beam.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

GregLee said:


> I didn't know there was a 1.8 meter dish available. I have two 1.2 meter dishes.


You're correct. The 1.2 meter is for your location. The 1.8 meter is not.
My 99/103c levels range from 80-95%, with a slimline.
Your larger dish has 4-5 dB more gain to offset the lower levels, which should give you levels similar to mine.


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## EricJRW (Jul 6, 2008)

swillotter said:


> did anyone notice he only had a signal strength of 30 on transponder 4 on sat 101. might be a typo...don't think trnsponder 4 is a spot beam anywhere..could be wrong though. could be a bad lnb





Newshawk said:


> Satellite 101, transponder 4 is a spot beam.


Thanks. That makes sense. I went back to the readings I took on the day (11/10/2009) that the technician was here, and for 101 TPNs 4, 18, 28 were 0 and 26 was 62. All others were mid 80s to high 90s, so my SS has actually gotten better!



gregftlaud said:


> I had the same issue on my bedroom hr20 yesterday. Ran the system test and it said sat dish alignment issue. I went into my setup--sat signal strength and everything was fine. Went into the living room ran the test on that hr20 and it came up fine. I restarted the hr20 in the bedroom ---did the test again and the dish alignment issue didnt come up. Just a glitch i think. BTW, when the system test does the satellite signal strength tests what sat does it us? B/c i was thinking since the spotbeam signal strengths (when checking them in the setup) take a while to come up when u check them maybe that's what caused the glitch.


I ran the test again today, which is another crystal clear day and all the snow (on the roof) is gone (as it was yesterday too). I still have the "Satellite Dish Alignment Problem" error.

I did notice my System Info says "Slimline-5". I don't feel like running the "Repeat Satellite Setup" just yet. If I could change just the dish/LNB I might try it, but I don't want to re-run the entire satellite setup just to change the number of LNBs.

Failing the test is no big deal, though for the purpose of gathering future SSs, it would be nice to not even have 110 and 119 in in the list.

Thanks again all.

Eric


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## taz291819 (Oct 19, 2006)

You should redo the setup and change it to 3-LNB dish. Since it's set to a 5-LNB Slimline, I believe it's going to try and get guide data from 119, which you don't get.


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## EricJRW (Jul 6, 2008)

taz291819 said:


> You should redo the setup and change it to 3-LNB dish. Since it's set to a 5-LNB Slimline, I believe it's going to try and get guide data from 119, which you don't get.


Yeah, I'll get around to it, just did not feel like messing with it today.

Guide is populated, so I guess the receiver can handle guide data from a redundant source.

But I would like things to be optimal.


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## james hyde (Nov 6, 2009)

i have the same issue on my h23-600!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## EricJRW (Jul 6, 2008)

Hi guys... Dumb question, but if I change my config to 3-LNB, how does the RCVR know which 3 LNBs I have?

Maybe I'm just getting myself confused, but at my old address I needed the 5-LNBs (3 horns) to get to the programming I paid for (basically just HD, no premium packages at all). If I understood the technician, the bulk of the programming has been "moved around" so that the majority of installs only require a 3-LNB, single horn, install.

Does the RCVR need to know which 3-LNBs I have, or is this transparent?

Thanks so much. I did not want to shoot myself in the foot over this.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

EricJRW said:


> Hi guys... Dumb question, but if I change my config to 3-LNB, how does the RCVR know which 3 LNBs I have?
> 
> Maybe I'm just getting myself confused, but at my old address I needed the 5-LNBs (3 horns) to get to the programming I paid for (basically just HD, no premium packages at all). If I understood the technician, the bulk of the programming has been "moved around" so that the majority of installs only require a 3-LNB, single horn, install.
> 
> ...


At your old address the slimline 5 was all that was out. Since 110 & 119, for the most part, are now on 99 & 103, they've come out with the Slimline 3.


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## EricJRW (Jul 6, 2008)

Thank you VOS. So the the statement about "things getting moved around" was quite accurate then. It seemed logical at the time, but I'm sure it took quite a bit of shuffling. I'll be getting to that reconfig ASAP.


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## JMII (Jan 19, 2008)

veryoldschool said:


> You're correct. The 1.2 meter is for your location. The 1.8 meter is not.
> My 99/103c levels range from 80-95%, with a slimline.
> Your larger dish has 4-5 dB more gain to offset the lower levels, which should give you levels similar to mine.


Where does one get a 1.8 meter dish and can one simply swap it out for their current 1.2 meter version? I've had my dish aligned TWICE but still get alot of rain fade issues down here in South FL.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

JMII said:


> Where does one get a 1.8 meter dish and can one simply swap it out for their current 1.2 meter version? I've had my dish aligned TWICE but still get alot of rain fade issues down here in South FL.


The 1.8 meter dish is only for Ku.
The 1.2 meter is Ku & Ka.
You might want to look into a SWM8 since it will add some gain to the weak signals, but it's not a cure all for rainfade. It will boost your levels by up to 15 dB as they start to drop, so it can/will reduce the onset and help with the recovery from rainfade.
A 1.2 meter dish & SWM8 is about the most you can do/get for reducing rainfade.


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## EricJRW (Jul 6, 2008)

Well I think I finally have a reason to finally change the config from 5-LNB to 3-LNB.

I went to redo my OTA setup, as there are new channels and subs in my area. I used my new zip (6 miles away from my old zip) and it searched and searched and searched forever (local market something or other, I know I should have pain more attention)... Never finding anything. I tried cycling power, but it went back into the same loop and now no button press would would break out of the searching screen. I took a RBR to get the DVR back on line. 

Now I wonder if it was looking for the OTA channel info on satellites I can't see?


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Eric, take a look into the map http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=187385
there you'll find channels, DMA, sats, spotbeam tpns, etc


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## EricJRW (Jul 6, 2008)

I re-ran the satellite setup... I have a 3LNB setup now. Next I'll retry the config for the AM-21. 

P Smith: Thanks for the link. The satellite info always impresses me.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

EricJRW said:


> I re-ran the satellite setup... I have a 3LNB setup now.


If you're still using a 5 LNB, the change in the receiver's SAT setup is useless, because the 5 LNB isn't hardwired to keep 101 active all the time like the 3 LNB is.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

veryoldschool said:


> If you're still using a 5 LNB, the change in the receiver's SAT setup is useless, because* the 5 LNB isn't hardwired to keep 101 active all the time like the 3 LNB is*.


That's interesting. Where I could read technicalities about the phenomena ?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

P Smith said:


> That's interesting. Where I could read technicalities about the phenomena ?


Not sure where any documentation can be found, but since you do understand the switching/tone arrangement, it shouldn't be too hard for you to realize that with a non SWiM LNB and tuning to 103, that the guide data has to come from 101 with the 3 LNB. Since there isn't any other Ku input, the 101 no longer is switched [other than even/odds], and just the KAs are.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

But Ka [103W] is coming at 250..750/1650..2150 while Ku [101W] - at 950..1450 [window] ...


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

P Smith said:


> But Ka [103W] is coming at 250..750/1650..2150 while Ku [101W] - at 950..1450 [window] ...


You're missing the tune voltage/tone.
103 is selected by 13/18 volts 22 kHz, while the 101 is 13/18 volts no tone. Since a tuner can only output one combination at a time, when it's tuned to 103, the 3 LNB has to be what has its switch modified to also pass 101 & 103, or there is no guide data.
"So":
103 outputs 260-750, 101 outputs 950-1450, and 103 outputs 1650-2150. Then the 99 replaces the 103 and the 101 stays constant.
The receiver can't change how it controls, so it's the change in the 3 LNB from the 5 LNB that does it.

"If in doubt" use your SA and connect it to a 3 LNB, and look at the tps. The 950-1450 will be different between the 5 LNB & the 3 LNB with the tone and be the same with no tone.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

My doubt in two tuners config, I guess one of tuners still has enough time to accumulate EPG data from 101W. If both cables/tuners are in good shape.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Freq MHz|no tone|no tone|tone|tone 
|| |22khz|	22khz
|	13V|	18V|	13V|	18V
250&#8230;750|	99-R|	99-L|	103-R|103-L
950&#8230;1450|	101-R	|101-L|119-R|110-L/119-L
1650&#8230;2150|99-R|99-L|	103-R	|103-L
I'm talking about TWO independent tuners inside of the HR22 DVR with OWN coaxes.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

The system is based off a signal tuner, so doubt whatever you want, as I'm tired of explaining.

SL5









SL3


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## EricJRW (Jul 6, 2008)

veryoldschool said:


> If you're still using a 5 LNB, the change in the receiver's SAT setup is useless, because the 5 LNB isn't hardwired to keep 101 active all the time like the 3 LNB is.


Physically it's one horn, 3 LNBs... If I have that right. The option to change this manually is gone, but running dish setup again figured out (automatically) that's it's a 3. May be my imagination, but system seems faster (maybe it was the reset as part of the reconfig).

I noticed a 2 or 3 sats vanished from the SS screen.

PS. I do have a SWM, so one cable into the HR22.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

EricJRW said:


> Physically it's one horn, 3 LNBs... If I have that right. The option to change this manually is gone, but running dish setup again figured out (automatically) that's it's a 3. May be my imagination, but system seems faster (maybe it was the reset as part of the reconfig).
> 
> I noticed a 2 or 3 sats vanished from the SS screen.
> 
> PS. I do have a SWM, so one cable into the HR22.


A SL3 SWiM will reconfigure correctly and you can't change it, so you are now using the SL3 and have the receiver set correctly.
This should be working fine.


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## EricJRW (Jul 6, 2008)

Thanks VOS.

I forgot to mention, no more dish alignment message after the reconfig. I checked before I did the reconfig and it was still there, so the system is definitely happier with the new setting. 

Oh, and I have the DVR plugged into a VOIP device now (for caller ID), so no phone line message either (I do have Internet connected to the DVR as well). Bottom line, clean bill of health on the system test.


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## DonDeAgo (Jun 3, 2008)

I have the same problem since I had a DirecTV installer move my dish down to the ground for easy snow removal. I get good signal levels on all five satellites and I'm not having any problems with loss of signal but it flunks the satellite info test every time on my HR 21 700. I'm also having the caller ID not working or reading not available most of the time lately.


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