# Internet Connection Problem



## dcandmc (Sep 24, 2008)

I've looked around, but can't find another thread that addresses my specific problem. Any help that can be provided, either by directing me to an appropriate thread or helping to solve my problem is appreciated.

I have two HR-20 700s and one HR-24 that are networked using my home network and CAT 6 cable (i.e. "unsupported"). Until yesterday they all had internet access through a Linksys WRT160N router; one of the HR-20s was connected directly to the router and the other two units were connected to a switch that was then connected to the router. Well, the router failed in that it was no longer passing the internet signal. Everyting else continued to work over the network, such as printing and the MRV function with the DVRs. Just no internet at the computer or internet connection for the DVRs.

I pulled the router out of the network and now everything is connected directly to the switch- the cable modem for internet, the computer and all three DVRs. The internet is up and running on the computer, and after restarting all the DRVs I have MRV working on all the DVRs. However, I can't get any of the DVRs reestablished with an internet connection.

Is there something that I need to do in the "Advanced Setup" menu under "Network Setup" to account for the removal of the router? I'm thinking that I need to modify the IP address, subnet mask, default gateway or DNS, but I don't have enough network knowledges to figure out exactly what needs to be done.

The switch is a D-Link DGS-2208, and the cable modem is a Motorola SB6120. Thanks in advance for any assistance provided.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

I'm no networking expert, but had a problem like this with a netgear router and had to find the hidden reset button on it. I figured it had died, but it only needed a factory reset to work again.
without a router, the receivers aren't being assigned IP addresses or the gateway [internet] IP address.
"You might" be able to manually load the gateway [the modem IP address] into the receivers.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

You would need to reset the gateway to the IP address of the cable modem, and possibly the DNS. The easiest thing would probably be to reset the network settings completely and try to reconnect. Your cable modem is probably equipped to configure the DVR for you using DHCP.


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## futurerebeldr (Jun 8, 2010)

I'll preface this by saying my day to day job is a network administrator for a large university. If it's unclear what I'm saying feel free to ask questions.

The problem is that since you took the router out of line, you have nothing on your network handing out IP addresses to the devices in your home network. The computer is working most probably b/c it was the first thing connected and powered on. 

By default, cable modems usually only give out 1 IP address. The responsibility of the router in your network is to take that 1 IP address the cable modem (cable provider) issues to you, and makes all of the devices in your network talk through that 1 IP. More specifically, the router does NAT (network address translation) and creates a private network behind the IP address the cable modem issues. Therefore, if you plug your computer to the cable modem directly, you may get a 204.125.x.x address. When you plug the router in, that address is assigned to your router, and your computers and other devices then have addresses like 192.168.x.x or 172.16.x.x etc.

To resolve this issue, you will need to obtain a new router if your old one is in fact dead. Make sure the cable modem is powered off, plug the cable modem into the WAN or Internet port on the new router, and then turn on the cable modem. Wait a minute or so, then turn on the router. Wait another minute or so, then plug your switch (and/or other devices) into the LAN ports on the router. This should take care of your problem.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Nice explanation, future man! 

My reaction was: it'll never work right without a router! Switches can be made to work, but with difficulty, and very big limitations, and a ton of potential problems. 

Are your boxes with fixed IPs? I'd recommend that once you get the new router up and running, all set, all working, then change to fixed IPs out of the range of your other gear, but in normal range.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

The possibility that the cable modem is only assigning one IP address hadn't occurred to me. The ones I've used have also been routers/DNS/DHCP servers.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> The possibility that the cable modem is only assigning one IP address hadn't occurred to me. The ones I've used have also been routers/DNS/DHCP servers.


Back in the dark ages, my cable modem would provide more than one IP address, which the cable folks didn't like too much. :lol:


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

My neighbors have Time Warner; their cable modems are also router. I have FiOS. With FiOS there is an optical network terminal outside that is essentially a router with one available IP address. They also provide a coax-enabled router (which most would call a cable modem) for use inside that provides DHCP to in-house clients.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

They have 'em that are also WiFi? I don't have choice of either FIOS, U-verse or TWC- [Comcast only, or ATT DSL.]


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## DarkLogix (Oct 21, 2011)

veryoldschool said:


> Back in the dark ages, my cable modem would provide more than one IP address, which the cable folks didn't like too much. :lol:


Ya it is possible to make the config file for a cable modem issue more than 1 IP but cable ISP's stoped that sometime ago (I think it was an issue with lowering the level of support that CSR's had to offer, and making it easier on field techs)

The modems are "capable" of handing out more but the config file sets how many they will and you can not edit that file unless your working for the Cable company and are fairly high up in the network department (I'm ignoring the possiblity of hacking the cable modem for clear reasons)


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

DarkLogix said:


> Ya it is possible to make the config file for a cable modem issue more than 1 IP but cable ISP's stoped that sometime ago (I think it was an issue with lowering the level of support that CSR's had to offer, and making it easier on field techs)
> 
> The modems are "capable" of handing out more but the config file sets how many they will and you can not edit that file unless your working for the Cable company and are fairly high up in the network department (I'm ignoring the possiblity of hacking the cable modem for clear reasons)


"pre dark ages" @Home used static IP addresses and you could "snag" more than they wanted you to.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Also be warned that by the OP removing the router from the mix, the home network is no longer protected by its firewall thereby exposing the DVRs and computers (if no software firewalls are activated) to the internet.


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## DarkLogix (Oct 21, 2011)

veryoldschool said:


> "pre dark ages" @Home used static IP addresses and you could "snag" more than they wanted you to.


Those were pre-midevil times aka earlyevil times

now its locked down to 1 IP per Mac address and on reboot of the cable modem whatever mac address askes it first get the first IP, and the config tells it how many to issue

For awhle it was possible to get a config applied by comcast that would give you 5 public IP's all issued via their DHCP server (but don't count on trying to get that now)


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

DarkLogix said:


> Those were pre-midevil times aka earlyevil times


 "When you're older than dirt,...." :lol:


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## dcandmc (Sep 24, 2008)

Thanks everyone for your help, especially futurerebeldr. Your explanation of what my problem is with a switch but no router was just what I needed to understand what's happening.

I bought a new wireless router this afternoon, but before hooking it up I thought that I would give the old one another try. After being powered up 24/7 for the past several years, it had been sitting on the floor unpowered since yesterday evening. Of course, now it's working again. I had previously experienced episodes of loss of internet connectivity, but never for very long, and before I could diagnose the issue as an ISP, modem or router problem (or something else entirely), I would get the internet connection back. Yesterday was different; the problem went on for 24 hours, and I had time to move cables around and come to the definite conclusion that the router was getting an internet signal but not passing it on. And yes, I wore the RESET button out on that sucker, to no avail.

So, it's working again and all three DVRs are internet connected, but I don't know how long that will last. The new router is still in shrinkwrap, and I'll probably return it tomorrow if things continue to work. At least I've done my research into available routers, so if/when this happens again I'll be ready to go.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Fingers crossed.... hope it keeps on keepin' on!

Reminds me of a recent router incident at my home front. My lovely Netgear router, only a year old, bit the dust, and I started looking around for the receipt, as well as bringing out the previous Netgear I have as a back up. Then I recalled I powered the new router on the power cable of the previous one, [after checking that the amperage requirements were in line.] No problem..... for a year.... I rechecked the power requirements, and noticed the new power supply was a tiny bit higher in the amps department, so put on the new one, and blam! I am back in business. Wonder it worked for nearly a year with lower amps than designed.


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

Laxguy said:


> Fingers crossed.... hope it keeps on keepin' on!
> 
> Reminds me of a recent router incident at my home front. My lovely Netgear router, only a year old, bit the dust, and I started looking around for the receipt, as well as bringing out the previous Netgear I have as a back up. Then I recalled I powered the new router on the power cable of the previous one, [after checking that the amperage requirements were in line.] No problem..... for a year.... I rechecked the power requirements, and noticed the new power supply was a tiny bit higher in the amps department, so put on the new one, and blam! I am back in business. Wonder it worked for nearly a year with lower amps than designed.


If you use an unregulated power supply (and most wall warts are) that can supply much higher current than the device requires, then its output voltage rises. This may or may not cause a problem for the device's input voltage regulator, and any unregulated chips that are fed the raw voltage coming in.

If, on the other hand, your supply was rated lower than required, the voltage would "sag" or drop.

Either way, problems could be solved, or caused by going either way. It would be best, of course, to use the properly rated supply.


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## futurerebeldr (Jun 8, 2010)

No problem dcandmc. Glad that I could help out. They just don't make products like they used too. I had a router do that a while back and never did figure out what caused it. I think it's probably something to do with the 50 cent parts in my $80 router lol.


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## DarkLogix (Oct 21, 2011)

dcandmc said:


> Thanks everyone for your help, especially futurerebeldr. Your explanation of what my problem is with a switch but no router was just what I needed to understand what's happening.
> 
> I bought a new wireless router this afternoon, but before hooking it up I thought that I would give the old one another try. After being powered up 24/7 for the past several years, it had been sitting on the floor unpowered since yesterday evening. Of course, now it's working again. I had previously experienced episodes of loss of internet connectivity, but never for very long, and before I could diagnose the issue as an ISP, modem or router problem (or something else entirely), I would get the internet connection back. Yesterday was different; the problem went on for 24 hours, and I had time to move cables around and come to the definite conclusion that the router was getting an internet signal but not passing it on. And yes, I wore the RESET button out on that sucker, to no avail.
> 
> So, it's working again and all three DVRs are internet connected, but I don't know how long that will last. The new router is still in shrinkwrap, and I'll probably return it tomorrow if things continue to work. At least I've done my research into available routers, so if/when this happens again I'll be ready to go.


sounds like the router is flakey, I'd use the new one as the old one is likely the reason for the past issues


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## DarkLogix (Oct 21, 2011)

hasan said:


> If you use an unregulated power supply (and most wall warts are) that can supply much higher current than the device requires, then its output voltage rises. This may or may not cause a problem for the device's input voltage regulator, and any unregulated chips that are fed the raw voltage coming in.
> 
> If, on the other hand, your supply was rated lower than required, the voltage would "sag" or drop.
> 
> Either way, problems could be solved, or caused by going either way. It would be best, of course, to use the properly rated supply.


Ya using the wrong power supply can cause issues
when I had comcast bring out a replacement cable modem (to upgrade to Docsis3) the tech insisted on using the old power supply (ya it didn't work) but he claimed that D3 wasn't here yet

I check the power supply ratings and found that the old one had a lower amp rating but the modem was already damaged by using the wrong one, so I had to get another new modem (I only allowed it because I didn't feel like arguing at the moment)


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