# Satellite/Cable Cost Breakdown - Your opinions?



## Nightfall (Sep 1, 2003)

Greetings! Long time lurker, but first time poster looking for some thoughts. Please be gentle! 

I have had digital cable for sometime now, and while I have been moderatly happy, there has been a longing for something more. I have always wanted to ditch my VCR (which doesn't work well anyway) and go to a PVR. The only problem is that a PVR doesn't integrate well with Comcast Digital Cable. I then decided to go out and hunt around to see what other options I have. Here is what I came up with...

Dish Network seems to be a pretty solid choice. Americas Choice 100 on 2 TVs + Local Channels + PVR service for $55 a month. Plus I can get 3 $50 credits on my next 3 bills. However, the thing that turned me off is the equipment. The equipment would cost me $400 with one PVR and one receiver with 20 $10 credits. That would take me 20 months to recoup that $200. In addition, I have heard the Dish Network PVR is average in comparison to a Tivo which concerns me. I plan on using the PVR and I want it to be fully featured. On the good side, I have seen the picture quality of the dish network service and it is far above regular or digital cable. 

Directv also seems like a solid choice. The equipment would cost me $185 for a Series 2 Tivo receiver, regular receiver, dish, and installation. Not bad! The total choice plus with local channels and Tivo service would cost me $50 a month. Again, not bad! I can also take the Tivo and upgrade it myself so that makes things very reasonable. I have also heard that the Tivo is probably the best PVR out there and beats Dish Networks hands down. After looking at the picture quality between dish network and directv, I really can't tell the difference. I have heard from some people that directv is slightly poorer than dish network, but that is subjective I suppose. It is better than cable I will say that.

My last option is to just stay with what I have in Digital cable. Right now, my bill is hanging at $53 per month for basic digital cable. If I opt for the Comcast DVR, that is going to cost me $10 a month to bring my cost up to $63 per month. I also have no idea when that is coming out.

So now I turn it to you. Any thoughts on the matter?


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## platinum (Oct 28, 2002)

Go with D* their dvr is worth it alone. If you like sports D* wins again. E* has a few more premium movie channel's than D*. Whoever you choose is much better than cable.
Check out www.expertsatellite.com and www.orbitsat.com


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## waydwolf (Feb 2, 2003)

Comcast is aggressively rolling HD including most especially HD locals as well as PVR and Video-On-Demand. Within a year most areas will have it and they carry premiums that neither Dish nor DTV carry. NFL? The DTV Sunday Ticket exclusivity goes away in 2007 which is not coincidentally when the FCC all-digital deadline hits. About the only thing they have that Comcast won't is the hardcore monthly porn and variety of foreign channels that Dish has.


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## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

The intergrated DVR receiver is the killer app for both DBS providers. The cable companies are only starting to roll out these units now. In addition, the cable companies have to still maintain the analog tier for "lifeline" cable service which includes just the local channels. This, the cable companies DVRs will have to support both analog and digital reception.

On the other hand, DBS can squeeze 8-12 standard definition channels onto a single transponder, but only 2-3 high-definition channels per transponder. 

As for the 2007 deadline, I beliece that the deadline for "all digital" will be pushed back.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

Some cable companies are wanting to roll out the DVR service big time plus have high speed internet, that along with locals being available and no hardware cost make it very appealing. The advantage of satellite is that it is mobile making it more flexible. If service goes out you dont have to wait for the cable guy to come out or for them to fix it over a perid of days or a week or something. You can fix it on your end. Another thing is that you can get DVR now and there are special deals coming out like Dish is coming out with a free DVR deal for first time subscribers along with another receiver and free basic installation. They are also going to be rolling out locals in many areas they do not serve currently soon and plan on launching lots of HD in the future.

DirecTv does have a better DVR though and is cheaper too on getting it replaced unless you get the free Dish DVR on the 510 where you get 100 hours of recording time getting the receiver for free up front.


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## Nightfall (Sep 1, 2003)

I decided to go with directv. The choice was very simple. It came down to cost, quality of picture, and the PVR.

The directv costs $55 and that is with 2 receivers + 1 Tivo receiver, Total Choice Plus, local channels, and Tivo service. That is very reasonable. Right now, I am paying for one digital cable TV and no PVR for $55. If I got the PVR and another digital cable box, I would be paying $70 a month. The equipment cost was just $99 for a 3 way LNB dish, 2 receivers, and 1 Tivo. All Hughes equipment.

The quality of picture of directv beats cable hands down.

The PVR is also nice. The Comcast PVR is still in testing phase, course, I was asked to demo it in the next couple months. The problem is the DVR is substandard compared to Tivo. That also won't fix the picture quality. Plus, I can upgrade the Tivo. 

It is my hope that cable becomes more competitive down the road. Until then, I hope I made the right decision on Directv. I am geeked about the PVR.


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## Mike Richardson (Jun 12, 2003)

Mm. You got a good deal but you still could have gotten a similar deal at DISH Network. $99 would get you up to 3 basic receivers and a PVR. $49 of that $99 would be refunded on your first bill. All receivers are rented so if they break it's E*'s problem. And that's all. Just pay for your programming. AT100 + Locals ($48.99 + $5.99) would be $54.98.

DirecTV Monthly Charge ($39.99 TCPwL + $4.99 XRcvr + $4.99 XRcvr + $4.99 Tivo) = $54.96 (Actually, isin't there a $4.99 Tivo fee also added? That would make it $59.95)
Dish Network Monthly Charge ($48.99 AT100+3Rcvr + $5.99 Locals) = $54.98 (no PVR fees because it's before Sept. 30)

DirecTV Equipment Charge ($99 for Dish, 2 Rcvr, 1 Tivo) = $99
DISH Network Equipment Charge ($99 for Dish, Up to 3 Rcvr, 1 PVR) = $99 MINUS $49 returned on first bill.

DirecTV equipment is OWNED by you and has standard warranty that expires in 1 year I think. Ongoing warranty past that is $7.99 a month.
DISH Network equipment is RENTED (in this plan) and this includes a warranty for as long as you have DISH Network. NO extra charge for warranty.

DirecTV equipment could be sold if you cancel.
DISH equipment must be returned.

So in the long run... it's a very similar deal.


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## Timco (Jun 7, 2002)

Numbers are not quite right Mike.



> DirecTV Monthly Charge ($39.99 TCPwL + $4.99 XRcvr + $4.99 XRcvr + $4.99 Tivo) = $54.96 (Actually, isin't there a $4.99 Tivo fee also added? That would make it $59.95)


Nope, you added the Tivo twice. You only pay a mirror fee on the extra receivers.


> Dish Network Monthly Charge ($48.99 AT100+3Rcvr + $5.99 Locals) = $54.98 (no PVR fees because it's before Sept. 30)


Not quite. There are no PVR fees, but if you do the DHP you pay an extra 5.99 a month for the DHP plan and don't forget the mirror fees!


> DirecTV Equipment Charge ($99 for Dish, 2 Rcvr, 1 Tivo) = $99
> DISH Network Equipment Charge ($99 for Dish, Up to 3 Rcvr, 1 PVR) = $99 MINUS $49 returned on first bill.
> 
> DirecTV equipment is OWNED by you and has standard warranty that expires in 1 year I think. Ongoing warranty past that is $7.99 a month.
> DISH Network equipment is RENTED (in this plan) and this includes a warranty for as long as you have DISH Network. NO extra charge for warranty.


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## drjake (Jun 12, 2002)

Timco

You're the one mistaken; Mike's numbers on DHP are correct.

There is no 5.99 DHP fee; the fee is $5.00. Pricing on DHP is as follows. $33.99 AT100 + $5 DHP + $5 Mirror + $5 Mirror + $5.99 Locals = $54.98


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## Mike Richardson (Jun 12, 2003)

Timco said:


> > DirecTV Monthly Charge ($39.99 TCPwL + $4.99 XRcvr + $4.99 XRcvr + $4.99 Tivo) = $54.96 (Actually, isin't there a $4.99 Tivo fee also added? That would make it $59.95)
> 
> 
> Nope, you added the Tivo twice. You only pay a mirror fee on the extra receivers.


Ok so the $39.99 for TCP w/ Locals, that includes 1 receiver. Then we have another standard receiver which is $4.99. Then we have a Tivo receiver. It's still a receiver so it's still another $4.99. But there is a Tivo fee, no? $4.99 Tivo fee, isin't it? $54.96. Okay. That's the price then, $54.96.


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

Nightfall said:


> Greetings! Long time lurker, but first time poster looking for some thoughts. Please be gentle!


Looks like some of us have forgotten to extend our traditional DBSTalk 'new member' hospitality! :eek2: 
________

Welcome Nightfall! :wave:
.
.


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## Nightfall (Sep 1, 2003)

Thanks for the welcome! On Tuesday, I will hopefully be a happy Directv subscriber!


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## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

Welcome to DBSTalk. Let us know what you think of the DirecTV setup.


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

Cable trolls aside there have been media studies showing that cable is more expenive. One was reported unfrt theheadline "Satellite Slams Cable". It really does vary by locality. There are low cost cable providers. But where I live tehrew is no contest.


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## jeffwtux (Apr 27, 2002)

So Nightfall, you went to Ferris State? You guys had a pretty good hockey team last year. Were you at the game at Big Rapids where Wayne State beat you guys???? You know that CCHA office is less than 1 mile from my apartment in Farmington Hills?


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## Nightfall (Sep 1, 2003)

jeffwtux said:


> So Nightfall, you went to Ferris State? You guys had a pretty good hockey team last year. Were you at the game at Big Rapids where Wayne State beat you guys???? You know that CCHA office is less than 1 mile from my apartment in Farmington Hills?


Hey!

Actually, I am a huge hockey fan. I do coverage for USCHO.com which is an ESPN affiliate. I go to all the Ferris State games and I also cover them with recaps and photos. Was I at the game? I was at both of them. I was even at the West Regional Finals game when Wayne State played Colorado College. I was hoping for an upset...but it just wasn't meant to be.

Installer should be here tomorrow. I hope my directv system is everything I want it to be.


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## toad57 (Apr 23, 2002)

You should also find outages less annoying with DBS, cable is out more often, and for longer periods, than DBS. 

Unless there is something wrong at the headend (rare), your only outages should be a few minutes if a large enough storm is between you and the bird, or for wet snow on the dish (if you live in snow-land... make sure it is mounted somewhere you can brush it off). I have a 'wet snow' outage once a year where I live.

Alternately, get a heated dish to keep snow off if the dish will be inaccessable.

Congrats on the move to DBS... there are sometimes fierce loyalties to E* or D*, but I tell most people to base their choice (mainly) on programming, the rest of the issues are usually pretty close to equal; no matter which service you choose- both beat cable's a$$ unless you need to run a large number of TVs and all your programming can be had via analog cable (no converter boxes), then cable might be cheaper.


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## Nightfall (Sep 1, 2003)

toad57 said:


> You should also find outages less annoying with DBS, cable is out more often, and for longer periods, than DBS.
> 
> Unless there is something wrong at the headend (rare), your only outages should be a few minutes if a large enough storm is between you and the bird, or for wet snow on the dish (if you live in snow-land... make sure it is mounted somewhere you can brush it off). I have a 'wet snow' outage once a year where I live.


I really haven't had outages with cable to be honest. My main beef with cable was getting a good quality picture and the price. The picture quality on analog was below average. The picture would be really fuzzy about half the time and that annoys me. The price, as I said, is extremely high. I am getting Directv Tivo + 2 receivers + Total Choice Plus + Locals + Tivo Service for $55. That is how much I was paying for basic digital cable with no Tivo. If I wanted the PVR, Comcast wanted $10 per month when it comes available in my area. To get the same setup through cable would have costed me $70. Now I will pay $55 and be happy. For $70 I could get a movie package or something. 


> Congrats on the move to DBS... there are sometimes fierce loyalties to E* or D*, but I tell most people to base their choice (mainly) on programming, the rest of the issues are usually pretty close to equal; no matter which service you choose- both beat cable's a$$ unless you need to run a large number of TVs and all your programming can be had via analog cable (no converter boxes), then cable might be cheaper.


I based my choice not only on programming but the PVR feature. I know that Tivo beats out the Dish PVR hands down. As for programming, it was a toss up. Both dishes have the channels I want for right about the same price. Both have the center ice package, which I got last year on digital cable and am going to get this year on the good ole directv. The nice thing is that I will be able to watch digital channels in the bedroom and my study for the same price as my digital cable plan was. As I said, that ability would have cost me $70 with digital cable for a crappier picture with no Tivo. 

Here is to hoping everything works out well tomorrow.


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## DS0816 (Mar 29, 2002)

I did not read other responses before posting this one. I take it, from the poster of this topic, that you're wanting our assessment of which of the two -- cable or satellite -- is a better economical bargain for consumers.

You should know that there is no clear winner. The more I think about what programming I watch on television, the more I realize I could live with a lot less than what is being offered at the digital cable and mini dish satellite levels. A lot of what exists now are just multiscreens from programmers who acquire spots on the satellites from which programming is ultimately beamed to Northern American viewers.

For me to personally assess what I'm interested in having, yes, _choice_ is very important to me. But I also realize how much I love going on the Internet and -- as of now -- cable is way ahead in my book, because of the speed it provides (I will not consider a service such as DirecWay, because its cost per month is approximately $100 minimum, and the quality, from what I understand, is inferior to high-speed Interet download and upload services).

What I'm also considering is that we're going to be watching all-digital channels by the time the decade is up (former President Bill Clinton wanted local/network affiliated stations across America to do away with analog by 2006). I think how we watch TV has also changed so much that these Digital Video Recorders (DVRs) are going to become every bit common household appliances (or electronics, if you will) on par with microwaves or televisions themselves.

Getting back to programming, I've always wanted my provider, DirecTV, to carry everything the competition has that deserves to reach DirecTV subscribers as well: you know, if Dish Network has it, so should DirecTV. That sorta philosophy. But I'm also sick of escalating programming costs, which stem from the greed of programmers who seriously overestimate their own value.

I find that there is no point in saying whether cable or satellite is superior. All one does is get caught up in discussion the quality of the services, when, in reality, I'm thinking that everyone's situation is not the same as the next-door neighbor's. For example, I plan to be buying my first house by the end of this year. I would like to continue with DirecTV and high-speed cable Internet (another provider, of course). A personal question to myself: Should I do away with DirecTV if it insists on my having a land-based phone line always active? Due to outrageous local telephone prices, I plan to keep my cell phone as my main phone, and would certainly not kowtow to how DirecTV provides service (unless, of course, it's willing to pay my monthly home phone bill).

Oh, I'm just another number out here in Northern America. And so are most of the people here. Once again, I must say, it doesn't matter whether you choose cable or satellite. There are actually some people in today's world, here in the USA, who are saying the hell with them both. Imagine that :grin: !


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## DS0816 (Mar 29, 2002)

*P.S. To the Original Post[er],*

I realize my answer hints that I didn't read your message -- from which others have responded -- carefully. I apologize.

Since you're touching on DVRs and VCRs, I want you to know that I can relate. I'm tired of recycling, sorta speak, with hundreds of my VHS tapes and am wanting to go with a DVR.

The one thing I'm requiring most in a DVR is the allotted time for programming. There's a substantial monthly fee difference between DirecTV's DirecTivo and a regular Tivo. DirecTivo if $5 a month on top of DirecTV service (no charge if you're subscribing to the top-level programming package), while a regular Tivo is $13 a month.

Hey, I wonder if these fees ever stop? (I think I've simultaneously answered my own question, so please consider it _rhetorical_.)

I'm thinking eventually everything is going to be built into the televisions themselves. Hey, they oughta be, for crying out loud! I can only be dazzled so much by the sight of an HDTV or Plasma TV -- features, features, features are of essence.

We need TVs that carry hundreds upon hundreds of channels and ones that have recording capacities. We need, come to think of it, TVs that are as functional as home computers! And we need at them _reasonable_ costs.


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## Shel (Sep 9, 2003)

My digital cable is about $67 a month, thats basic +HBO (4 feeds). For me, switching to Dish was a no-brainer.


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## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

Even at the AT-150 or Total Choice Plus package, I'm getting 99% of the channels that are available on my local cable system. However, my local cable system has been putting channels into a digital tier, requiring a rental of a digital box.

No thank you.


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## Shel (Sep 9, 2003)

Yea the cable company here makes you get digital cable to have hbo.


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