# If E*DVR Hardware is Free would You Pay Monthly Fee?



## Chris Freeland (Mar 24, 2002)

Out of curiosity, how many current subs would consider upgrading to a 510 with the monthly fee's if they can upgrade for FREE? How many would consider a 522 with its two tuners, two outputs and no 2nd receiver fee if it replaces two receivers for say $99 up front and the the monthly fee? How much would you consider fair for a 921 that includes the monthly fee?


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

Chris Freeland said:


> Out of curiosity, how many current subs would consider upgrading to a 510 with the monthly fee's if they can upgrade for FREE? How many would consider a 522 with its two tuners, two outputs and no 2nd receiver fee if it replaces two receivers for say $99 up front and the the monthly fee? How much would you consider fair for a 921 that includes the monthly fee?


You asked the question in two places, so I'll answer it in two places as well.

Let's see...If I'm an AT50 subscriber, the "free" upgrade would cost me $120 dollars a year. In 3 years (which is as long as I've had my Dishplayer) that would be $360. In 6 years (which is as long as I've had Dish) that would be $720.

I'd say that is pretty steep for being "free".

I've said it before...if EVERYONE on the planet charges for DVR functionallity, I'll probably pay it. But just to prove the point, I will NEVER pay it to Dish. Anyone who's been in the forums for the last 6 years knows that this is not a normal thing for me to say. I've been called an apologist for Dish or a dish-ciple so many times it's not even funny. But this is where I draw the line!

See ya
Tony


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Tony AGREED! This is a matter of principle for me as well. I will NEVER give E a dime for a PVR DVR fee.

Futhermore once I need a new receiver I will move on to any other provider. I feel that strongly about this. I WILL NOT team E with a stand alone TIVO replay or any other PVR box.

E should offer a lifetime free DVR fee, that would elminate the trashing they are taking plus they have created lots of knowledgable motivated anti E salespersons, if this doesnt get a you asked for it you got it from charlie I will be sadly disappointed.

The lifetime free DVR fee has another good side affect. It encourages sticking with the service, close ytour service your out the free service.


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## Chris Freeland (Mar 24, 2002)

Bob Haller said:


> Tony AGREED! This is a matter of principle for me as well. I will NEVER give E a dime for a PVR DVR fee.
> 
> Futhermore once I need a new receiver I will move on to any other provider. I feel that strongly about this. I WILL NOT team E with a stand alone TIVO replay or any other PVR box.
> 
> ...


I agree that E* should make a lifetime fee as an option for their future DVR's, especialy for those who want a 2nd, 3rd or more DVR's or better yet charge per-account. If E* should listen to us and do away with the per-unit idea and go per-account, E* can not afford to give away those 2nd, 3rd and more DVR's so they would need to charge higher prices on these units if you already got one free and were paying the monthly fee. Personaly I am not interested much in the 510 even if I can upgrade for FREE because it is only one tuner, however when the 522 arrives in the fall with two tuners, one card and two seperate ouputs, if their is a good upgrade promotion for this receiver, it will be a good bargen for me because I will replace both of my old receivers with this one unit and even with the DVR fee it will be a penny a month cheaper then I pay now.

Tony, I agree that $9.99 is a bit steep for AT50 subs, however I doubt very few AT50 subs will be interested in this deal and many that are will go $4 higher and get AT100. E* is not aiming this deal at AT50 subs.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Sadly the 510 is the SAME pricew as the 508, and they are basically the same with a bigger cheaper hard drive. NOTE THE PRICE DIDNT DROP

I too could care less about the 510, I wanted a 522 but not with the fee.


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## DarrellP (Apr 24, 2002)

I would be willing to pay Dish a PVR (I mean DVR) fee IF they had decent software. TIVO I can see paying for, they have software that works, changes to catch your shows and they must provide the guide. Dish already provides the guide, so whey don't they just charge all receivers a $5 monthly "Guide Fee"?

With the bug ridden 501 that I have, a DVR fee is not justified. The tiered fee schedule and per reciever fee really stinks. Let those who are willing to pay full price for a box not pay a fee and make the fee they do charge be per household.


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## Chris Freeland (Mar 24, 2002)

Bob Haller said:


> Sadly the 510 is the SAME pricew as the 508, and they are basically the same with a bigger cheaper hard drive. NOTE THE PRICE DIDNT DROP
> 
> I too could care less about the 510, I wanted a 522 but not with the fee.


 Granted the 510 has a retail price of $299 at this time, however it will be Free to new subs as you are aware. It only makes since that E* has not announced a promo price for current subs yet because the current upgrade promotion is still going on, we as current subs will not see low price or Free DVR510 or 522 until the 508 upgrade promo expires and their are no more 508's left in inventory. One would be foolish to pay $299 for a 510 when their are still 508's left with no fee available to current subs for $150-$199. As I have repeated my self many times here, the 522 with a good upgrade promotion will still be a bargen even with the DVR monthly fee due to the fact that this receiver can replace two older receivers and you will not have to pay the $4.99 mirror fee, there fore making it a wash.


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## Allamand (Dec 13, 2002)

I could also see paying a fee, if only the software was better, and that includes the hangs when watching a show 

I can't see how people like the so called "Lifetime" fee's.. When I looked into the Tivo units, I found that by "Lifetime" they mean the lifetime of the unit.. any HD upgrades or if you had to replace the unit, you'd have to pay that lifetime fee again..

That could get pretty costly in a 6 year time frame every time you wanted to upgrade, and as these DVR's are like computer's, that could be as often as 2-3 years one would pay the "lifetime" fee..

so IMO, that isn't a option either,,,

Only way, is good reliable, easy to use software..


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Lifetime fee should be lifetime of the account. It would encourage people sticking with e.

But truly E should of stayed with FREE PVR by whatever name.


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## Deuce (Aug 5, 2003)

I somewhat agree with the fact that it would be nice if DVR was left free. However there isn't currently a free service for DVR, so it was only a matter of time.


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## Chris Freeland (Mar 24, 2002)

Deuce said:


> I somewhat agree with the fact that it would be nice if DVR was left free. However there isn't currently a free service for DVR, so it was only a matter of time.


Yes this is how I see it too, it would be good if E* could improve the stability of their software though. I have herd of posters who have had no problems with their 501 or 508, but unfortunately their have ben many more with complaints, of course they could just be louder and we may not here from the ones with no problems, who knows. :shrug:


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## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

As stupid as it may sound to some people, I too probably would not pay a DVR fee even if the unit were heavily discounted either I just can't get past being a TOP 150 subscriber, buying a $999 (or discounted price) 921, then being told I have to pay $10 a month more. (DVR $5 2nd Receiver $5) In just five years (minimum time I would probably keep it) that's $600 in extra fees! I have come to terms with paying the DVR fee, if they dropped the 2nd receiver fee, but not pay both.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

The true cost in giving you a discount or free DVR is the price of the hardware plus your monthly subscription cost over the period of time you have it until it comes time to sell it and minus that from the cost.

Example: Lets say they give a Free offer on the 510. You pay $5 a month for 2 years so that costs you $120 and you get $100 out of the receiver. $120-$100=$20. Your total cost over a period of 2 years is $20 divided by the months you had it (24 months) for a total of almost $2 a month for hardware and software. For each additional month you have it your cost goes up by $5 for the hardware + the amount less you get out of the hardware.

This seems like a good deal for new subs but just add $299 for subs that have to pay full price for the hardware.


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## Guest (Aug 6, 2003)

If E* would offer a free 510, I would pay the DVR fee. In my case , that would be $5/ month. So after 5 years, I would have spent $300 or the retail cost of the 510. By then something new would be available to do it all over again.

I believe that E* should discount all future fee based DVR's by $300 or more and offer a lifetime fee. For example, a 921 would cost a $1000 with lifetime or $700 fee based. If you want to spur DVR adoption then that would do it.


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## kstevens (Mar 26, 2003)

TNGTony said:


> You asked the question in two places, so I'll answer it in two places as well.
> 
> Let's see...If I'm an AT50 subscriber, the "free" upgrade would cost me $120 dollars a year. In 3 years (which is as long as I've had my Dishplayer) that would be $360. In 6 years (which is as long as I've had Dish) that would be $720.
> 
> ...


I would have never called you that, but it looks like everyone does charge a dvr fee. TIVO is 12.99 per month, D* I'm not sure, this it is like 5.99 a month.

Ken


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

I guess Dish wants retail price plus a fee for DVR. I also guess Dish is going to charge retail plus a fee for lifetime DVR if you want that. Dish just wants to make a profit off of DVR now. Period. Before they just wanted to get it out on the market because they got better customers. Now its about more than just that. Its very smart to get them hooked on the DVR and charge the monthly fee if they did give it away or reduced the cost, not by charging full price and still charging the fee.


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## dishrich (Apr 23, 2002)

Allamand said:


> I can't see how people like the so called "Lifetime" fee's.. When I looked into the Tivo units, I found that by "Lifetime" they mean the lifetime of the unit.. any HD upgrades or if you had to replace the unit, you'd have to pay that lifetime fee again..


This is NOT true of the D-Tivo's, however - the lifetime fee they used to have (before D* took over & lowered the monthly to $5) applied to the D* ACCOUNT, NOT the box. I know this because I have the lifetime on my D* account & have had to swap a box & my lifetime remained.


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## DarrellP (Apr 24, 2002)

> even with the DVR monthly fee due to the fact that this receiver can replace two older receivers and you will not have to pay the $4.99 mirror fee, there fore making it a wash.


How do you figure it's a wash when Dish is charging $10/month for those of us who don't wish to fork over our newborn every month for programming fees? I don't want anymore than the AT50 and I would have to pay $10/month for a "DVR" fee. I would rather pay an extra receiver fee for a 522.


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## John Walsh (Apr 22, 2002)

Maybe, just maybe if we keep ranting Dish may get the idea that this is a stupid plan

with the quality and the features we would be friggin idiots to pay for a DVR fee - everyone must refuse to buy that 510, its a matter of principal


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## DarrellP (Apr 24, 2002)

Ditto, John.


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## Chris Freeland (Mar 24, 2002)

DarrellP said:


> How do you figure it's a wash when Dish is charging $10/month for those of us who don't wish to fork over our newborn every month for programming fees? I don't want anymore than the AT50 and I would have to pay $10/month for a "DVR" fee. I would rather pay an extra receiver fee for a 522.


I am the one who made this statement and for my situation this is true. I have had AT150 in the past and will likely never go bellow AT100, for me this statement is true. E* is in the programing business, they are not in the hardware business, E* loses money on hardware and make's money on programing, the bigger the programing package the more money E* makes. E* makes less money on AT50 and DL then on the larger programing packages, charging a lower fee for AT100 subs encourages people to upgrade from AT50 to AT100 and it encourages AT100 subs with 3 or 4 premium services or AT150 subs with 2 or 3 premium services to upgrade to AEP.

D* is the same way, they charge a $4.99 DVR fee if you take TC or TC+ and no charge if you take TCP, D*also charges TC subs $5 for locals and only $2 for TC+ & TCP subs. D* used to have Select Choice (SC) for the same monthly charge as AT50, however new subs no longer have this option and only grandfathered current subs, still do. D* discontinued SC because they did not make enough money on this smaller package, at least with E* new and current subs still have the option to get just AT50 or DL. Like it or not E*, D* and cable make their money on programing and will always offer better deals if you take the bigger programing packages.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

I think this was a trial balloon that exploded in their face. If the internet discussions didnt get their attention they are brain dead.

Honestly E is a pretty smart company I think this will change...


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

If Dish is truely smart and has any sense they will not charge a DVR fee per receiver when DirecTv does not do so. That right there is where you cross the line. In reality you would be paying $9.98 per DVR receiver since you are charged the DVR fee as well in which means an extra $19.96 for two DVR receivers extra. OUCH!!! If you have only DVR receivers and the main receiver on the account is a DVR receiver then you would pay $4.99 less seeing there would be no additional outlet charge on that particular receiver.


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## dlsnyder (Apr 24, 2002)

Jacob S said:


> If Dish is truely smart and has any sense they will not charge a DVR fee per receiver when DirecTv does not do so. That right there is where you cross the line. In reality you would be paying $9.98 per DVR receiver since you are charged the DVR fee as well in which means an extra $19.96 for two DVR receivers extra. OUCH!!! If you have only DVR receivers and the main receiver on the account is a DVR receiver then you would pay $4.99 less seeing there would be no additional outlet charge on that particular receiver.


They didn't say exactly how they would charge for the 522. They very well could charge the $9.98 twice since it has two tuners and two independant outputs.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

If Dish was as stupid as to charge $19.98 for adding the 522 on the account they would get such few sales that they might as well figure on not making many or making any at all because they would just be wasting their time and money. I do not think Dish is that stupid.


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## Chris Freeland (Mar 24, 2002)

I doubt E* would attempt to charge two fees on the 522, if they tried this they would lose this loyal sub as well, contrary to popular belief right now E* is smarter then this. I would not be surprised if E* changed their mind about the per-unit charge, however I suspect that the FREE hardware with a DVR fee will remain. If a new sub gets AT100 or AT150, this $4.98 fee adds up to only $180 after 3 years, many by then will want to upgrade to the newest and greatest by then anyway. If a new sub wants AEP, they get a FREE DVR and no fee. Under the current 508 upgrade for new subs, it costs them what $199 up front to upgrade? So why is getting a FREE DVR with a monthly fee such a bad deal? I just do not get it :shrug: . Like it has ben repeated many times here by both me and HTguy, once the 508 upgrade promotion is over with I am confident their will be a promotion for us current subs to upgrade to the fee based DVR's similar but probably not exact promotion, probably FREE for a 510 and large discounts on 522 and 921.


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