# Why didn't they put a 1TB+ drive in the HR24?



## mogulman (Mar 19, 2007)

Just wondering what kind of sense it makes to put a 500GB drive in the HR24?

This is Directv's newest receiver. I'm assuming its supposed to be THE hd DVR receiver for the next few years. With so many people putting 1T+ drives attached to their DVR on the older drives from 2007, why didn't they put a 1TB or higher drive in the HR24?

The price of an HR24 is $160 (discounted) up to around $199. 1TB drives are only about $10-20 more than 500GB drives right now. So instead of including a more mainstream (for 2010) 1TB drive, they opted for a 500gb. Then I have to go out and purchase a second drive, with external enclosure, wasting 2x as much energy powering both drives, wasting material, chemicals, etc. I would have paid $20-30 more to have an internal 1TB drive, rather then having an external enclosure and an external drive.

I like the idea of the HR24 being faster and the next generation and all. I just don't get why they wouldn't put at least a 1TB drive in this thing, or offer it as an option.

I guess 500gb might be fine for the average person. It seems like most of the techies on here have 1TB though. I imagine it might be a good marketing thing too, if they had the only 1TB drive DVR.

The only real good reason other than slight cost difference is that they didn't want to have a DVR that was that much better than the HR20,21,22,23... Otherwise everyone would call in wanting to upgrade (even more than they already are). Kind of forces them to not come out with a huge leap in DVR technology on a new platform, otherwise they have to figure out a structure for allowing people to upgrade to that specific unit.


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## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

Because you are in the vast minority (think <1%) who feel the need to go beyond the recording capacity of the HR24 with a 500GB drive.


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## Hutchinshouse (Sep 28, 2006)

mogulman said:


> Just wondering what kind of sense it makes to put a 500GB drive in the HR24?
> 
> This is Directv's newest receiver. I'm assuming its supposed to be THE hd DVR receiver for the next few years. With so many people putting 1T+ drives attached to their DVR on the older drives from 2007, why didn't they put a 1TB or higher drive in the HR24?
> 
> ...


$10-$20 per unit adds up real quick.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

It's all $.

The HR24 is the mainstream DVR, and they probably used 100 hours HD as the reference standard.

Every $1 is probably several million dollars in the long-run.

I'd love if it was 1TB, but certainly understand their perspective.


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## evan_s (Mar 4, 2008)

100 hours of HD content is already pretty generous. I think you are vastly overestimating the percentage of customers who want to upgrade beyond that. Heck most of cable provides are just starting to upgrade their units from the 160gb hds that store ~20 hours of hd.

Now I do expect the rumored HMC-30 to have a 1tb or possibly larger HD. More tuners and the ability to provide more streams should come with more storage space.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Why not give us the Option of buying an HR24-500 with either a 500 Gig or 1 TB Drive and let us pay for whatever we want so we don't have to go to the trouble of Upgrading the Hard Drive ourselves.


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## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

richierich said:


> Why not give us the Option of buying an HR24-500 with either a 500 Gig or 1 TB Drive and let us pay for whatever we want so we don't have to go to the trouble of Upgrading the Hard Drive ourselves.


See post #2.

There just wouldn't be enough demand for the 1TB version.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

IMO, my parents represent the "typical" DVR user. They record a good 3-5 hours of TV per day. They rarely got near 50% on their HR20 stock 300something drive...they stayed around 10-20% full. It makes _"cents" _to use a 500GB drive when average users don't use near 1TB.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

IMHO, much better to have two HR24's with a "virtual" 1 Terabyte and MRV, because it gives you 4 tuners, so no conflicts, and you can watch anything anywhere.

Ya, if you didn't previously have MRV, it costs you an extra $36 a year, but it's soooo worth it to not worry about a show getting bumped. Just my .02.


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## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

Steve said:


> IMHO, much better to have two HR24's with a "virtual" 1 Terabyte and MRV, because it gives you 4 tuners, so no conflicts, and you can watch anything anywhere.
> 
> Ya, if you didn't previously have MRV, it costs you an extra $36 a year, but it's soooo worth it to not worry about a show getting bumped. Just my .02.


Wouldn't that cost you an extra $96 per year?


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

sigma1914 said:


> IMO, my parents represent the "typical" DVR user. They record a good 3-5 hours of TV per day. They rarely got near 50% on their HR20 stock 300something drive...they stayed around 10-20% full. It makes _"cents" _to use a 500GB drive when average users don't use near 1TB.


My mom and step-dad are almost the same as your parents and have no issues with just the 20 hours of HD they get on their Verizon Multiroom DVR.

Looking at the Verizon forums, there are a couple of threads with a few folks posting they want more storage, but it's not as big an issue as one might think. Had it been a real problem over the past 2-3 years, I would think Verizon would have addressed it by now, for fear of not being able to acquire new subs because of this issue.


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## Justin23 (Jan 11, 2008)

evan_s said:


> Now I do expect the rumored HMC-30 to have a 1tb or possibly larger HD. More tuners and the ability to provide more streams should come with more storage space.


I've read it will be a 2 TB on the HMC...


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

I don't care about the percentage of the customers who are in the minority but just give us the Option to keep us happy so we don't have to Perform the Upgrade ourselves.

That is why alot of car manufacturers give you the Option of Upgrading to a larger engine if you want to pay for it.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

hilmar2k said:


> Because you are in the vast minority (think <1%) who feel the need to go beyond the recording capacity of the HR24 with a 500GB drive.





hilmar2k said:


> See post #2.
> 
> There just wouldn't be enough demand for the 1TB version.


Where does the <1% come from?

Mike


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## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

MicroBeta said:


> Where does the <1% come from?
> 
> Mike


My arse. :lol:

Seriously, you think it's any higher than that? I don't know of a single person (outside of this board) who has upgraded their HDD or runs an e-sata drive. I don't even know of anyone who complains about the storage space. It just isn't an issue for almost anyone....including me.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

A lot of these arguments on both sides remind me of the "Why didn't the put a 500GB drive in the HR20?" threads from a while back. I think it's cost at this point, and you saw that when it did make sense, DIRECTV quietly started putting in 500GB drives.


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## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

richierich said:


> I don't care about the percentage of the customers who are in the minority but just give us the Option to keep us happy so we don't have to Perform the Upgrade ourselves.
> 
> That is why alot of car manufacturers give you the Option of Upgrading to a larger engine if you want to pay for it.


It's not that easy. A separate model needs to be created and tested. Plus, with as low volume as the 1TB version would be, it would end up being a lot more than $10-20 more expensive than the standard version. My guess would be more like $50. Then what happens when that one dies, and you get an 500GB version as a replacement? How would that go over with you? It just creates more issues than it solves.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

richierich said:


> I don't care about the percentage of the customers who are in the minority but just give us the Option to keep us happy so we don't have to Perform the Upgrade ourselves.
> 
> That is why alot of car manufacturers give you the Option of Upgrading to a larger engine if you want to pay for it.


Well, at least they allow you to use an External drive. It's not ideal, and there are issues with it, but the majority of providers don't allow it at all, even if there's a SATA port.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

hilmar2k said:


> My arse. :lol:
> 
> Seriously, you think it's any higher than that? I don't know of a single person (outside of this board) who has upgraded their HDD or runs an e-sata drive. I don't even know of anyone who complains about the storage space. It just isn't an issue for almost anyone....including me.


I know families with DirecTV who have three & four kids (one with an HR21 and the other with an HR23). They're both running into space constraints. I know a third who has an eSATA drive on his HR20. :shrug:

However, I think both our sample sizes are just a bit small to extrapolate out to the general subscriber. 

Mike


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## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

MicroBeta said:


> I know families with DirecTV who have three & four kids (one with an HR21 and the other with an HR23). They're both running into space constraints. I know a third who has an eSATA drive on his HR20. :shrug:
> 
> *However, I think both our sample sizes are just a bit small to extrapolate out to the general subscriber.*
> 
> Mike


Which is why I was so candid about where I came up with that number.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

hilmar2k said:


> Which is why I was so candid about where I came up with that number.


Well, then you really can't put it out there as if you're stating a fact (in your initial post). 

Mike


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

It's looks like most, if not all, of the actual reasons have now been stated.

1. Most of the user population are fine with 100 hours of HD, thus the 500GB to 1TB cost delta becomes savings, which probably equates to tens of millions of dollars of savings.

2. The supply chain stays simple. One mainstream DVR model to design, build, stock/inventory, deploy, maintain, service/swap.

A Pro model would be nice, but analysis may have shown that advanced users just do e-SATA or will do MRV, without much complaint.


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## jodyguercio (Aug 16, 2007)

Justin23 said:


> I've read it will be a 2 TB on the HMC...


I don't remember reading that anywhere, do you have a link?


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

It comes down to what the competition has and if you look at the current website bragging about the HR22 and up having the "two times more DVR storage than cable", you'll understand why they don't feel the need to go larger at this time.

You have to remember that DIRECTV is very motivated to NOT differentiate between receivers. The HR24's defining difference is built-in DECA. Those in the know know better but not talking about other advantages (like not promoting the HR23's wide band tuners) avoids people clamoring for particular models (especially as replacements).


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

maybe over a long run they found twin platter 500gb to have better longevity and thermals then 3 platter or high density 1tb drive.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

richierich said:


> I don't care about the percentage of the customers who are in the minority but just give us the Option to keep us happy so we don't have to Perform the Upgrade ourselves.
> 
> That is why alot of car manufacturers give you the Option of Upgrading to a larger engine if you want to pay for it.


Car manufacturers are able to markup the options a bunch, each sale is individually made with a salesman, etc. And even then you have two choices--take what is on the "lot" (which is bigger with dealer trades) or wait months for the car with the options you want to be made.

The whole car maker model is completely different than the mass production of consumer electronics model. Every penny (literally) counts.

Cheers,
Tom


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

David MacLeod said:


> maybe over a long run they found twin platter 500gb to have better longevity and thermals then 3 platter or high density 1tb drive.


I believe the HR24 is one-platter 500GB. ST3500312CS.

It's the thin Pipeline drive.


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## Scott Kocourek (Jun 13, 2009)

Can't you already go to a place like Solid Signal and lease upgraded units from them? If you don't want an external drive and you don't own your unit to do a drive upgrade it seems there is still an avenue to get what you want.


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## bobnielsen (Jun 29, 2006)

scottandregan said:


> Can't you already go to a place like Solid Signal and lease upgraded units from them? If you don't want an external drive and you don't own your unit to do a drive upgrade it seems there is still an avenue to get what you want.


I don't think SolidSignal has upgraded units, but Weaknees has HR24s with up to 2 TB drives (at a price, of course).


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

richierich said:


> Why not give us the Option of buying an HR24-500 with either a 500 Gig or 1 TB Drive and let us pay for whatever we want so we don't have to go to the trouble of Upgrading the Hard Drive ourselves.


Didn't you already do that  .. seems like an option.


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## poppo (Oct 10, 2006)

Hutchinshouse said:


> $10-$20 per unit adds up real quick.


So does that $3 monthly MRV fee.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

poppo said:


> So does that $3 monthly MRV fee.


Yep, with all 7 receivers sharing content in this house, a great option indeed!

Family just loves it.


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## Scott Kocourek (Jun 13, 2009)

bobnielsen said:


> I don't think SolidSignal has upgraded units, but Weaknees has HR24s with up to 2 TB drives (at a price, of course).


Yup, I think you are right. I had right idea wrong place.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Sixto said:


> I believe the HR24 is one-platter 500GB. ST3500312CS.
> 
> It's the thin Pipeline drive.


This sounds right although I'm unsure on specifics .. I think the theory is that single platter drives make less noise.


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## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

I'm satisfied with the 300 gb capacity of my HR20-700. It's usually well under 50% full but will occasionally go higher when there's a free premium movie channel weekend.

That said, one reason I'm not planning to switch to FiOS anytime soon is the small size of their DVR's hard disk. Another reason is that despite their come-on offers I really wouldn't save any money by switching.


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## nickff (Dec 8, 2007)

Don't forget 500GB is still a lot larger than cable offers. ComCrap still issues DVRS with 1##GB drives.


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## azarby (Dec 15, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> Car manufacturers are able to markup the options a bunch, each sale is individually made with a salesman, etc. And even then you have two choices--take what is on the "lot" (which is bigger with dealer trades) or wait months for the car with the options you want to be made.
> 
> The whole car maker model is completely different than the mass production of consumer electronics model. Every penny (literally) counts.
> 
> ...


Looks who's making moiney, DTV or the auto manufacturers.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

azarby said:


> Looks who's making moiney, DTV or the auto manufacturers.




By the way, DIRECTV does allow the external option. Yes, it would be nice if completely supported, yet it can be done now. If there were larger hard drives inside, the larger the unused space by putting an external drive on... 

Cheers,
Tom


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## azarby (Dec 15, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> By the way, DIRECTV does allow the external option. Yes, it would be nice if completely supported, yet it can be done now. If there were larger hard drives inside, the larger the unused space by putting an external drive on...
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


For $700 the OP can go to Weaknees and get an HR24 with a 2TB drive. 90 day warranty but then he is on his own.


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## rsblaski (Jul 6, 2003)

My thinking goes in the other direction...
Why not make a dvr with NO internal hard drive for those who would like to use a large esata drive? D* and customer could save some money and the customer wouldn't be wasting the internal hard drive.
This would really be nice if D* would ever allow esatas to be linked to a customer account as opposed to the dvr.


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## Sim-X (Sep 24, 2009)

I think they should have put a 1TB in standard but look how long it took them just to make a "decent" box. I don't even have one yet. The good news is that at least they let you use a bigger one if you wish. I got a 2TB drive & love it. I can record movie after movie and it hardly makes a dent.

I agree with you they should have put a 1 in but hey now you have a reason to buy buy a 2TB. I don't think I would have bought a 2TB if it came with a 1. Since I had to buy a new drive anyway I went with the biggest. I actually went with a 1.5 at first cause I got a deal on it, but the EARS drives suck for DVR's so I ended up just getting the best drive I could. The EVDS 2TB drive.


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## employee3 (Aug 15, 2006)

All this discussion about eSata being unsupported reminds me of a saying I once heard working in IT :

"I don't want their support, I want their "stuff" to work."

Use your imagination for the original quote.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Doug Brott said:


> This sounds right although I'm unsure on specifics .. I think the theory is that single platter drives make less noise.


When it stop rotating.


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## rainydave (May 28, 2006)

I'm very satisfied with the 2tb drive in my HR21-700. I like being in that 1%.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

rainydave said:


> I'm very satisfied with the 2tb drive in my HR21-700. I like being in that 1%.


I suspect you mean .1% 

And congrats. As prices are dropping, I might join that group too.

Cheers,
Tom


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## barryb (Aug 27, 2007)

When I "buy" a car (cash or loan), I can do things like put in my own sound system.

When I "lease" a car, there are stipulations. 

The same applies for DirecTV equipment. I can buy a unit and light it on fire if I want to, but if I am leasing.... its not mine to mess with. If I wanted to upgrade a drive in a DirecTV box, it would suit me to just purchase my own. 

I decided that DirecTV's "whole home solution" (MRV) would be my best choice as I now have several terabytes of storage.


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

mogulman said:


> 1TB drives are only about $10-20 more than 500GB drives right now.





azarby said:


> For $700 the OP can go to Weaknees and get an HR24 with a 2TB drive. 90 day warranty but then he is on his own.


This is the real reason. It isn't cost effective.

That $10-$20 cost, by the time you get to retail, is $50-100. That is a pretty typical consumer electronics markup for manufactured goods, and a number I'm not pulling out of my ass. :grin:

That's just to cover cost. The market really charges what it can, not what it costs. Weaknees has shown that 0.001% of the market - or whatever this undocumented number is - will pay $399 for a 1TB drive. It's just too expensive compared to adding a eSATA drive for that few people who'd use the extra space.

Having a special model makes even less sense. Before the run is over, DirecTV will produce hundreds of thousands of HR24s. A special model will reduce the run by a couple of orders of magnitude. DirecTV's costs go up with a shorter run. They simply couldn't charge enough to make any money on the deal.


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## andy A (Sep 14, 2006)

richierich said:


> Why not give us the Option of buying an HR24-500 with either a 500 Gig or 1 TB Drive and let us pay for whatever we want so we don't have to go to the trouble of Upgrading the Hard Drive ourselves.


(edit) sorry did not realize that someone else already mentioned this.
You can, Weaknees http://www.weaknees.com/directv-hd-dvr.php sells them with up to a 2TB drive. For the price they want though it is cheaper to upgrade it yourself.


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## -Draino- (May 19, 2008)

hilmar2k said:


> Wouldn't that cost you an extra $96 per year?


$3.00 per month x 12 month = $36.00

Unless I'm missing something?


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## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

-Draino- said:


> $3.00 per month x 12 month = $36.00
> 
> Unless I'm missing something?


You are. The cost of the extra receiver.


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## -Draino- (May 19, 2008)

hilmar2k said:


> You are. The cost of the extra receiver.


Haha.....I work for the government, so I though there could some kind of fuzzy math going on!!!

Yep, missed the cost of the receiver!!!


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## djrobx (Jan 27, 2009)

My options:

Time Warner = 160GB of MPEG2 ... not expandable. eek!
AT&T U-verse = 250GB of MPEG4 ... not expandable.
DirecTV = 500GB of MPEG4. Expandable.

After having Time Warner, having 500GB of MPEG4 storage on a DVR seems like an endless wasteland of capacity. We have two, and now with MRV I don't feel pinched for capacity at all. More storage would be nice, but I can see why DirecTV wouldn't feel that it's worth the added expense at this time.


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## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

djrobx said:


> My options:
> 
> Time Warner = 160GB of MPEG2 ... not expandable. eek!
> AT&T U-verse = 250GB of MPEG4 ... not expandable.
> ...


Not to nitpick, but...

DIRECTV = 400GB of MPEG4. Expandable.


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

And of course Dishnetwork where you can use as many USB external drives to move video off of the internal drive.


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## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

hilmar2k said:


> Because you are in the vast minority (think <1%) who feel the need to go beyond the recording capacity of the HR24 with a 500GB drive.


Heard that same line with computer memory decades ago.

Believe me, you put it out there, it will be used.

Me, I rather have 'em figure out a way to daisy chain HDs.


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## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

Drucifer said:


> Heard that same line with computer memory decades ago.
> 
> Believe me, you put it out there, it will be used.
> 
> Me, I rather have 'em figure out a way to daisy chain HDs.


Right, but it costs money to put it in there. Until a much greater percentage of users are demanding more capacity, there is no reason for DIRECTV to spend money to put a larger HDD in there.


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## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

hilmar2k said:


> Right, but it costs money to put it in there. Until a much greater percentage of users are demanding more capacity, there is no reason for DIRECTV to spend money to put a larger HDD in there.


The key is to be able swap out a larger HD as an option when ordering. This way way you satisfied the bargain hunters and the premium buyers.


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## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

Drucifer said:


> The key is to be able swap out a larger HD as an option when ordering. This way way you satisfied the bargain hunters and the premium buyers.


Nope, that's an awful idea. Screws up the whole supply chain. As I said before, that creates more problems than it solves.


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## Guest (May 29, 2010)

hilmar2k said:


> Nope, that's an awful idea. Screws up the whole supply chain. As I said before, that creates more problems than it solves.


I think I barely use 1% to 5% of my HR-22's Hard Drive.


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

evan_s said:


> ....the rumored HMC-30....


Speaking of the HMC, is there any updates on this?


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

hilmar2k said:


> Right, but it costs money to put it in there. Until a much greater percentage of users are demanding more capacity, there is no reason for DIRECTV to spend money to put a larger HDD in there.


I tend to think it won't be customer demand but what the compition is doing. With the Dish's 922 coming with a 1TB drive, the door is now open. I believe it won't be long before you see bigger drives from DirecTV

Mike


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

I think we will see a larger hard drive with the hmc30.. but even then, I don;t expect more than a 1tb...


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## Guest (May 29, 2010)

I found this while searching to see who still had the HR-24. It's an HR-24 with an expanded 1.5 Terabyte hard drive for $499.00.

http://www.weaknees.com/cart/product.php?productid=60466


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## mogulman (Mar 19, 2007)

rsblaski said:


> My thinking goes in the other direction...
> Why not make a dvr with NO internal hard drive for those who would like to use a large esata drive? D* and customer could save some money and the customer wouldn't be wasting the internal hard drive.
> This would really be nice if D* would ever allow esatas to be linked to a customer account as opposed to the dvr.


This make the most sense. Don't make an HD and an hddvr. Just make a single unit and then provide different options of hard drives or let people use their own.

It would probably be hard to control quality with different external drives being used though. One of the reasons why it would be good to have a 1tb internal drive.


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

^ Holy jockstrap, Batman. Can you say unsupported?


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## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

mogulman said:


> This make the most sense. Don't make an HD and an hddvr. Just make a single unit and then provide different options of hard drives or let people use their own.
> 
> It would probably be *hard to control quality with different external drives being used though.* One of the reasons why it would be good to have a 1tb internal drive.


There are already quite a lot of '_DVR Expanders_'.

http://www.google.com/products?q=DVR+Expander&aq=f


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

The problems with a "no-disk" solution are the same with any specialized model:
1) Too small of a market segment
2) Too much work to rebuild the entire supply chain

The "entire" DIRECTV DVR market is just large enough to get some economy of scale, but not nearly large enough to do specialized models.

I mean, do you see color variations in stereo receivers? TVs? There just isn't the market demand to support variations in the supply chain.

Cheers,
Tom


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## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

Tom Robertson said:


> The problems with a "no-disk" solution are the same with any specialized model:
> 1) Too small of a market segment
> 2) Too much work to rebuild the entire supply chain
> 
> ...


Color variations is considered cosmetic. Hard drives are hardware. Your same question - do you see variations in hardware. Just look at DVR Expanders - I generally see at least three variations - from a 1/2 Gb to 2 Gb.


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## Sim-X (Sep 24, 2009)

djrobx said:


> My options:
> 
> Time Warner = 160GB of MPEG2 ... not expandable. eek!
> AT&T U-verse = 250GB of MPEG4 ... not expandable.
> ...


I couldn't imagine going back to crappy comcast mpeg2 over compressed low quality picture. Not only that the hard drive is soooo small. I did get a DCX3400 before I left comcast which I think had a 320 in it. 500 stock for dtv is still worlds ahead of cable. However I don't even put cable & sat in category anymore. I checked our comcast lineup here and it's EXACTLY the same as when I left last fall. 30 some HD channels over compressed mpeg2. They are finally shutting off analog in my market, however I don't really care anymore. Way to go comcast! I do however love there internet service. Docsis 3 rocks


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## scottjf8 (Oct 5, 2006)

I now have 2 HR24's in my house and MRV. If I ever go above what those 2 can record, keep a ton of stuff, and still run out of room, I need a life. I should NEVER run out of space now.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Tom Robertson said:


> I mean, do you see color variations in stereo receivers? TVs?


Several stereo receivers are available in a K (black) and S (silver/argent) model designation.

The point remains that DIRECTV doesn't want to differentiate the models (perhaps because refurbs play such a huge role in their supply chain) and that's why it isn't going to happen. Now that the competition has moved to a similar singular model, the impetus to diversify has all but gone away.


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## rsblaski (Jul 6, 2003)

scottjf8 said:


> I now have 2 HR24's in my house and MRV. If I ever go above what those 2 can record, keep a ton of stuff, and still run out of room, I need a life. I should NEVER run out of space now.


Actually, bigger hard drives are more useful to people with a life. Whose drives do you think have the most recordings on them--those who watch tv 8 hours a day, or those who have other things to do such as vacations, hobbies or work commitments?
When we go on vacation, we may have two or three weeks worth of recordings being done while we are gone. It may take a while to catch up, and while doing that, other recordings are being saved to the hard drive(s).
Take today, for example. If you are going out on a picknick, you may want to record both the Indy 500 and the Coca-Cola 600. That's going to take up a lot of room. If you were finishing a two week vacation tomorrow, add today's recording and that of the previous two weeks which include several season finales, and you may find that you have used more space than you anticipated.
I have a 1T esata on one of my dvrs that I try to schedule as many one-time events (races and NFL) as possible on, but I still end up using the other two to balance conflicts.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Drucifer said:


> Color variations is considered cosmetic. Hard drives are hardware. Your same question - do you see variations in hardware. Just look at DVR Expanders - I generally see at least three variations - from a 1/2 Gb to 2 Gb.


Yes, but they are really just hard drives that can be used for any computer system.

Cheers,
Tom


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## t_h (Mar 7, 2008)

hilmar2k said:


> Because you are in the vast minority (think <1%) who feel the need to go beyond the recording capacity of the HR24 with a 500GB drive.


And yet Tivo sells a 1tb version of their product, and they've sold a very significant number of them. There are also a handful of DVR expander products from a variety of manufacturers that also seem to sell very well.

So apparently there is a market for it, and its quite profitable since Tivo sells the 1tb unit for a couple of hundred bucks more than their base unit, and the dvr expander folks get about $50 more than the drive and enclosure would sell for.


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

t_h said:


> So apparently there is a market for it, and its quite profitable since Tivo sells the 1tb unit *for a couple of hundred bucks more than their base unit*, and the dvr expander folks get about $50 more than the drive and enclosure would sell for.


People arent willing to pay the going rate for a unit($99-$299 depending on acct status) with a 500GB drive in it now, based on that info, its hard to believe they would be willing to pay extra for a unit with a larger drive....


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

CCarncross said:


> *People arent willing to pay the going rate for a unit($99-$299 depending on acct status) with a 500GB drive in it now*, based on that info, its hard to believe they would be willing to pay extra for a unit with a larger drive....


Especially if the fee is artificial.


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

P Smith said:


> Especially if the fee is artificial.


Since when are you privy to enough of Directv's internal financial information to be able to so confidently label the fee "artificial?"


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## RichardS (Jan 2, 2007)

I totally agree with the posters here that for the "majority" of DVR users, 500gb of storage space is enough. If someone needs more storage space, they can get an e-SATA drive. 

Can we end this thread now? 

:lol:


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## spidey (Sep 1, 2006)

Steve said:


> IMHO, much better to have two HR24's with a "virtual" 1 Terabyte and MRV, because it gives you 4 tuners, so no conflicts, and you can watch anything anywhere.
> 
> Ya, if you didn't previously have MRV, it costs you an extra $36 a year, but it's soooo worth it to not worry about a show getting bumped. Just my .02.


actually I have 4 DVRS to prevent conflicts and to distribute the load as well as storage


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

spidey said:


> actually I have 4 DVRS to prevent conflicts and to distribute the load as well as storage


Not to "one-up" you, but I actually have a 5-DVR MRV setup here, all for the same extra $36 a year... what a deal! :lol:


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## uteotw (Sep 30, 2006)

Slightly off topic, but if I order a new HD-DVR, will I get an HR24? Just have the HR20 now and would like to move that to my new smaller LCD and upgrade to the HR24 on the main plasma. Thanks~


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

uteotw said:


> Slightly off topic, but if I order a new HD-DVR, will I get an HR24? Just have the HR20 now and would like to move that to my new smaller LCD and upgrade to the HR24 on the main plasma. Thanks~


There is no accurate way to predict what you'll get.

If you really to be certain, order from an online retailer or pick one up if you see one.

Cheers,
Tom


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## rmnowick (Sep 15, 2006)

Hi Guys,
New to DirecTv after having been a sub about 5 years ago. Just received a new HR24-500, and looking to add the external e-sata drive being discussed in this thread. Well, sometimes mentioned is more appropriate, since the discussion seems to be about why it might not be needed 

My understanding is that the external drive replaces the internal drive once you add it. I did this to my Series 3 Tivo, but it was so long ago that I don't remember what size drive I ended up adding. I saw a link earlier for a "DVR Expander" search on Google. If someone could recommend a 1TB or 2TB e-sata drive I would appreciate it. I'm a computer guy, so dropping the bare drive into an enclosure and then connecting it is no problem if that would save me a few $. Any enclosure references would also be appreciated. Apologies in advance if this is in another thread already.

Robert


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

rmnowick said:


> My understanding is that the external drive replaces the internal drive once you add it.


The external drive does indeed take over for as long as it is plugged in.

It is just like getting a new DVR so make sure you make notes of your programming preferences.


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## rmnowick (Sep 15, 2006)

Ok,
Found the e-sata thread. I ordered the MX-1 case and the WD15EVDS drive. Arrives on Friday 2 day shipping from Amazon. Just in case someone else ends up here when looking for this.

Robert


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## klambert (Feb 8, 2008)

500gb still puts them at the top of the heap for standard units, isn't the upper level THX tivo the only one with 1TB? You can always esata.

To me, the big question 500 vs. 1TB, but more how so many cable companies get away with really tiny hard drives AND intentionally disabling the esata port so you can't expand it.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

klambert said:


> 500gb still puts them at the top of the heap for standard units, isn't the upper level THX tivo the only one with 1TB? You can always esata.
> 
> To me, the big question 500 vs. 1TB, but more how so many cable companies get away with really tiny hard drives AND intentionally disabling the esata port so you can't expand it.


I belive the ViP 922 has a 1TB.

Mike


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

MicroBeta said:


> I belive the ViP 922 has a 1TB.
> 
> Mike


That's correct, but user space limited to same amount as for 500 GB inside of 722/722k and [user] updated 622. Other provider though.


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## patg25 (Nov 12, 2006)

rmnowick said:


> Ok,
> Found the e-sata thread. I ordered the MX-1 case and the WD15EVDS drive. Arrives on Friday 2 day shipping from Amazon. Just in case someone else ends up here when looking for this.
> 
> Robert


I am in the same boat; was a sub 3 years ago and just got back to D*. Had Comcast with an external 1TB drive; worked great for 3 years.

But why would you want to add the 1 TB drive now? I am planning to add one when I get 50-70% full. That should happen right about next spring when I record shows and not watch them until the summer. I assume (incorrectly??) you can still access all the shows on the internal drive.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

patg25 said:


> I assume *(incorrectly??)* you can still access all the shows on the internal drive.


Yes that is incorrect.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

patg25 said:


> I am in the same boat; was a sub 3 years ago and just got back to D*. Had Comcast with an external 1TB drive; worked great for 3 years.
> 
> But why would you want to add the 1 TB drive now? I am planning to add one when I get 50-70% full. That should happen right about next spring when I record shows and not watch them until the summer. I assume (incorrectly??) you can still access all the shows on the internal drive.


The shows on the internal drive continue to exist, tho you can only access them when the external drive is not attached, unfortunately. So you can go back and forth by rebooting the system.

Cheers,
Tom


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## patg25 (Nov 12, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> The shows on the internal drive continue to exist, tho you can only access them when the external drive is not attached, unfortunately. So you can go back and forth by rebooting the system.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


Ah - I was not aware of that one. Wow. Even my crappy SA 8300 could access either the internal or external drive for shows. OK, that means I may add a 1 TB drive before the fall season starts. On the other hand, 100 hours of HD really should be enough. I'll just record all those reality shows my family likes in SD :hurah:


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

I've come to look at hard drive space the same way I look at closet space.

The more you have the the junk you'll collect.

I'm sure if you ask D* about it these days they will say we've rolled out the cure for small drive space issues, MRV.


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

patg25 said:


> Ah - I was not aware of that one. Wow. Even my crappy SA 8300 could access either the internal or external drive for shows. OK, that means I may add a 1 TB drive before the fall season starts. On the other hand, 100 hours of HD really should be enough. I'll just record all those reality shows my family likes in SD :hurah:


And so do the E* VIP Series of HD DVR you can access either. But D* does seem to go their own way. Design by Committee.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I think honestly, it's just not a huge deal. What percentage of DVR users actually need so much space that an off-the-shelf eSATA isn't going to suffice and they are going to want to supplement it with another 500GB of space. 1%? Less?


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## torre39601 (Sep 23, 2006)

Are we still looking at 4 qtr 2010 on HMC-30?


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## am7crew (Jun 6, 2009)

P Smith said:


> That's correct, but user space limited to same amount as for 500 GB inside of 722/722k and [user] updated 622. Other provider though.


thats not entirely true, on my 922 during testing I filled up the HD and it came to just over 200 hours of HD.

Also if your picky enough to want more space on your HR24 (like myself) your probally savy enough to upgrade the hard drive to whatever you want including a 2TB.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Different measuring units: hours vs GB.


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## joshjr (Aug 2, 2008)

Justin23 said:


> I've read it will be a 2 TB on the HMC...


What is this HMC some of you are speaking of? Where can I find more on it? Is it a D* DVR that may be coming?


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

joshjr said:


> What is this HMC some of you are speaking of? Where can I find more on it? Is it a D* DVR that may be coming?


The forum search feature is your friend:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=178422&highlight=HMC

And from October 2005:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=47405&highlight=HMC


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## oldbamaguy (Jun 1, 2009)

My 2 cents worth concerning the "less than 1%" of increased memory users - I wonder just what percentage of DirecTV users know that you can increase the system's capacity by adding an eSATA? Or how many can afford it in these times and how many could do the job themselves?
I found out one day surfing here about eSATAs and in less than a week I had one up and running. I had never heard the term terabyte or SATA before that. Perhaps the "traditional" user would record more and save more if they knew there was a way to do it.
I think that "the percentage" should be of knowing capable users who decline to increase system memory. THAT is the percentage I would be concerned about.
Have A GREAT DAY!!
ed


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## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

I doubled my storage space by leasing a second DVR. The only cost is $5 extra per month plus, of course, we can now watch all our DirecTV channels in both rooms.


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## dbronstein (Oct 21, 2002)

oldbamaguy said:


> and how many could do the job themselves?


Even my 65 year old mother can connect an external drive herself. Most people just don't know you can do it.


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

Personally, I'm ticked that DirecTV didn't install a 1 Zettabyte drive in this thing! I would have at least settled for a 1 Petabyte or 1 Exabyte drive, though.


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## usnret (Jan 16, 2009)

Agree. That really bytes that they were so short sighted doesn't it.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

mogulman said:


> Just wondering what kind of sense it makes to put a 500GB drive in the HR24?
> 
> This is Directv's newest receiver. I'm assuming its supposed to be THE hd DVR receiver for the next few years. With so many people putting 1T+ drives attached to their DVR on the older drives from 2007, why didn't they put a 1TB or higher drive in the HR24?


The thing we all forget is that $20 per unit is a huge number when you render a million of them to the market.

While 500GB internally is quite substantial for most people...I agree that a 1TB or even 2TB drive is nice, but you can accomplish that with an eSata if its personally important.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

billsharpe said:


> The only cost is $5 extra per month plus, of course, we can now watch all our DirecTV channels in both rooms.


Plus the lease entry fee and a commitment extension.


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## rahlquist (Jul 24, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> The thing we all forget is that $20 per unit is a huge number when you render a million of them to the market.
> 
> While 500GB internally is quite substantial for most people...I agree that a 1TB or even 2TB drive is nice, but you can accomplish that with an eSata if its personally important.


While I agree with you on most things...

Since D* leverages the purchase price from 90% of their customers in one way or another ($200) and in the end winds up getting the hardware back, I say fooey to the added cost. LOL.

I think the real problem is they dont want to support 10 models each with 3 different drive sizes. and for that I cant blame them.

I think D* should consider this again. In the past they had PRO models, I think they should leverage that history to bring our a HR24 based pro model with a 2 TB drive for pricing similar to the pro's of yester year.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

torre39601 said:


> Are we still looking at 4 qtr 2010 on HMC-30?


maybe, but it could be 1 qtr 2011 ... don't really know at this point.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

harsh said:


> The forum search feature is your friend:
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=178422&highlight=HMC
> 
> ...


ignore the second link .. that product is dead.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

harsh said:


> Plus the lease entry fee and a commitment extension.


which is often $0 and not an issue for long time DIRECTV subscribers ..


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

Doug Brott said:


> ignore the second link .. that product is dead.


HMC is dead?


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

Think he was referring to the PC Card DirecTv receiver version for Media Center. That one is dead.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

TheRatPatrol said:


> HMC is dead?


The original one...an updated HMC30 is alive and on the drawing board for late 2010 or early 2011....or so they showed and told at CES...


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> The original one...an updated HMC30 is alive and on the drawing board for late 2010 or early 2011....or so they showed and told at CES...


I'm recalling that DIRECTV made no official mention of the HMC30 during/at CES. Instead, a prototype was spied in the Entropic booth. DIRECTV seems to have only officially mentioned the subsequent HMC concept in financial presentations.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=170841&highlight=HMC30+DECA

DIRECTV very publicly announced a similar timeframe (time relative) for the original HMC during the 2005 CES.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=47405

Both the concept and the apparent demise of the HDPC-20 were given press releases.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

harsh said:


> I'm recalling that DIRECTV made no official mention of the HMC30 during/at CES. Instead, a prototype was spied in the Entropic booth. DIRECTV seems to have only officially mentioned the subsequent HMC concept in financial presentations.
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=170841&highlight=HMC30+DECA
> 
> ...


The point from multiple folks now is that these were not the very same technology, nor devices, as shown/announced several years apart.

The HDPC20 never got much further past the lab testing bench.

The most recent unit had a working prototype, and a senior DirecTV engineer onsite at CES stated it would be released late in 2010 or early 2011. In addition, there have been 2 financial presentations done since January that also referenced its existence and planned release.

Dwelling on anything from 5 years ago seems silly, when we have current information, visual exposure, and confirmed information.

I've got a $20 bill sitting on my counter here betting it will be released as stated. Feel free to wager in contrast....I'd welcome the easy money.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

harsh said:


> I'm recalling that DIRECTV made no official mention of the HMC30 during/at CES. Instead, a prototype was spied in the Entropic booth. DIRECTV seems to have only officially mentioned the subsequent HMC concept in financial presentations.
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=170841&highlight=HMC30+DECA
> 
> ...


Interesting that you keep bringing this up .. let me spell it out in clear concise words for you ..

The HMC shown in 2005 is DEAD .. will not be built .. has been filed in File 13.

The HDPC-20 is DEAD .. will not be built

The HMC shown in 2010 (and shown by DIRECTV employees at the Entropic booth) is alive and well .. I expect it to be available in late 2010 or early 2011 but no official time table has been announced.

So I can say with certainty that there is no reason for you to continue bringing up the 2005 HMC .. It is DEAD and is one of the vaporware products that companies sometimes (often?) produce. Most of the time DIRECTV hits the mark and they try to be very conservative with announcements often announcing things AFTER it's actually hit the market. (new HD for example) .. Still things happen like the HMC you keep bringing up. But really, it's DEAD .. It's unrelated to the HMC shown this past year @ CES.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Since you seem to have missed my point, I'll lay it out.

DIRECTV made much the same promises on a much grander scale before and eventually scrapped the projects as you point out. While prior performance isn't a clear indicator, it does give some strong hints.

In combination with calling MRV the "Whole Home DVR Service", it should at least make one wonder why they didn't reserve that honor for the client-server setup.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

mogulman said:


> Just wondering what kind of sense it makes to put a 500GB drive in the HR24?
> 
> This is Directv's newest receiver. I'm assuming its supposed to be THE hd DVR receiver for the next few years. With so many people putting 1T+ drives attached to their DVR on the older drives from 2007, why didn't they put a 1TB or higher drive in the HR24?


Coming back to the first post...

Considering most HD DVRs for DirecTV had 320GB drives..the 500GB is an increase. If you look at other providers, its not unusual to see 160, 200, or 320 GB drives in those units. Again, having 500GB is more.

I'd agree that a 1TB drive in the HR24 might be nice to have, and likely, there will be some folks who even would desire a 2TB drive for these units.

That said, what we tend to forget at times is that many of us do not represent the general population, in terms of HD DVR use or requirements. We tend to adopt "bigger, fast, more" when compared to the majority of DirecTV HD DVR users out there. There's nothing wrong with that...but these devices are targeted at "the average user"...whatever that may be.

As for the reasoning....don't poo poo the cost difference so quickly. Every dollar in higher costs represents a potential $1 Million (or more) when you look at the HD DVR user base. I suspect that the "needs" of the market to have the added cost didn't warrant the return on that investment.

eSata can support either of those sizes for the 1-3% of the user population that will prefer larger storage. I'm guessing that's how DirecTV viewed things too.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

harsh said:


> Since you seem to have missed my point, I'll lay it out.
> 
> DIRECTV made much the same promises on a much grander scale before and eventually scrapped the projects as you point out. While prior performance isn't a clear indicator, it does give some strong hints.
> 
> In combination with calling MRV the "Whole Home DVR Service", it should at least make one wonder why they didn't reserve that honor for the client-server setup.


My confidence level is simply a lot higher than yours apparently .. It's great that you want to be negative about it, but I'll be happy to serve you some crow in a few months .. 

As for the "name" .. why can't "whole home" also cover the client-server setup? Just because technologies are different doesn't necessarily mean that the marketing has to be.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Isn't time to split the thread or at least stop posting off-topic ?
:backtotop:


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

P Smith said:


> Isn't time to split the thread or at least stop posting off-topic ?
> :backtotop:


Yes! 


harsh said:


> Since you seem to have missed my point, I'll lay it out.
> 
> DIRECTV made much the same promises on a much grander scale before and eventually scrapped the projects as you point out. While prior performance isn't a clear indicator, it does give some strong hints.
> 
> *In combination with calling MRV the "Whole Home DVR Service", it should at least make one wonder why they didn't reserve that honor for the client-server setup*.


This line of discussion is ridiculous.

You are deviating this thread in the worst way. For your information, I can see contents of *any* of my DirecTV HD DVRs *anywhere* *in my whole home *- so the name and technology fit each other. Enough already.

Perhaps you should go back to Post #1 and read the title thread before going on a redundant tangent of yesteryear and its related useless information, especially since it has nothing to do with the OP or thread topic. Troll elsewhere.


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