# Why are guests allowed here?



## JohnMI (Apr 2, 2002)

I am curious for the reasoning behind allowing "guest" accounts to post here. In the vast majority of cases where I see either an insulting or obvious troll posting, it is from a "guest." Why are these unregistered users still allowed to post? It just seems that there are so few forums around today that still allow guest postings without an actual account, at least.

Granted, even an account is still anonymous -- but it seems that just the time it takes (that couple of minutes) to register is usually enough to greatly reduce the number of people that would have otherwise posted some rude comment as a "guest."

Just curious. Thanks.

- John...


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## Mike123abc (Jul 19, 2002)

I would second the motion that posting be prohibited by guests. If someone wants to remain anon they could simply get an anon email address and do a fake registration. It would take more time and would stop most of the rediculous posts. Given the huge number of registered people, we pretty much see all of the rants we need without having to wade through guests.


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## Neil Derryberry (Mar 23, 2002)

That is one of the reasons we are the best satellite forum on the Internet. We want open discussion here, and some folks just won't post if they have to register. We have a great staff here that does a great job of weeding out the trolls, so we keep the trouble to a minimum.


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## Cyclone (Jul 1, 2002)

I had a few guest posts before I registered. I kinda considered it like a trial offer.


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

Mike123abc said:


> I would second the motion that posting be prohibited by guests.


I agree. It seems that most of the "guest" posts are from people that are just trying to start trouble.


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## dtcarson (Jan 10, 2003)

While many of them may be trolls, I like the flexibility of the 'guest' posting. That was one of the things that attracted me to the site. Some forums/websites require you fill out some huge account creation form to post, or even worse, just to read, and if I have no idea of the content, I'm not going to waste my time with that. 
Would there be a way to tweak the 'Guest' name so that it can be added to the Ignore list, if that's not already possible?


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## JohnMI (Apr 2, 2002)

Neil Derryberry said:


> That is one of the reasons we are the best satellite forum on the Internet. We want open discussion here, and some folks just won't post if they have to register. We have a great staff here that does a great job of weeding out the trolls, so we keep the trouble to a minimum.


Well, I figured that was the reason, actually -- but I'm not convinced it is really worth it. I don't think people that "won't post if they have to register" are worth the cost of allowing guest accounts to post. The very rare "insider" information that gets posted by a guest would simply meet so much resistance and statements of "that's a bunch of bull!" that it doesn't help any.

Heck, I think the resent Tasydra posts are a perfect example of why it wouldn't work. Even though Tasydra registered an account and was NOT a guest, because of their low number of posts, they were still basically attacked by some -- people saying that it was a bunch of crap and citing one of the reasons being that they had so few posts and was brand new. When a guest says something similar, the reaction is even 10x worse.

In other words, I just don't see that the very, very limited situations where a guest would make a great information post that they wouldn't make if they had to register outweighs the incredible downside of the majority of guest posts.

This is "the best satellite forum on the Internet" because of the incredible knowledge and input of the registered userbase -- not the guests.

- John...


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## JohnMI (Apr 2, 2002)

dtcarson said:


> While many of them may be trolls, I like the flexibility of the 'guest' posting. That was one of the things that attracted me to the site.


Really? I find it difficult to believe that many people were attracted to this site because they could post without registering... I just don't see it as being that common.



> Some forums/websites require you fill out some huge account creation form to post, or even worse, just to read, and if I have no idea of the content, I'm not going to waste my time with that.


With reading, I agree. I think a guest should be able to read whatever they want here. I think they can find out all they need to know -- enough to know if they want to join or not -- without posting as a guest.



> Would there be a way to tweak the 'Guest' name so that it can be added to the Ignore list, if that's not already possible?


I don't think that is a good solution. Then you'd just see the replies that wouldn't make much sense and such.

I just don't see that guest's really need the ability to post. I can see a few very limited situations -- but they would be so rare that I don't see that the possibility of it happening outweighs the benefits of not allowing guests to post without registering. Especially based on how much of the userbase already reacts to "guest" (or even newbie) postings -- regardless of how accurate their information might turn out to be.

- John...


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## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

I co-own ComicBoards.com and TVShowBoards.com, and one of our main selling points is that we don't have passwords (unless you want to edit your post later) and we don't have registration. We also don't have ads. We moderate by having MODERATORS who delete posts from drolls, and if needed ban the troll in a number of ways that tend to work well. So it's very possible to keep boards well maintained and yet open and free.


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

jgoggan said:


> This is "the best satellite forum on the Internet" because of the incredible knowledge and input of the registered userbase -- not the guests.
> 
> - John...


I have to agree with John but I would not use the term "best satellite forum", I would use "better satellite forums" and it could be even better if there were NO "guest" posts. As far as I'm conserned, I would not use "best" for ANY of the satellite boards. They all have thier "problems". Egotism and the fighting between boards are two of the things that bugs me the most on two of the boards (here and SatelliteGuys.US).

As for the Neil saying "We have a great staff here that does a great job of weeding out the trolls, so we keep the trouble to a minimum" I have to somewhat disagree. While they do a good job on MOST things just look at how long Bob Haller got away with the crap he posted and all the trouble he caused. He chased a lot of posters over to SatelliteGuys.US because he was allowed to continue re-posting his "DISH hate posts" so long.


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## Neil Derryberry (Mar 23, 2002)

> As for the Neil saying "We have a great staff here that does a great job of weeding out the trolls, so we keep the trouble to a minimum" I have to somewhat disagree. While they do a good job on MOST things just look at how long Bob Haller got away with the crap he posted and all the trouble he caused. He chased a lot of posters over to SatelliteGuys.US because he was allowed to continue re-posting his "DISH hate posts" so long.


Here's the thing... Bob didn't violate our terms of use. We can't go deleting posts from users no matter how full of crap they are if they don't break the rules. We have to give every user the freedom to say what they want to say within the constraints of those Terms of Use. You won't find that freedom on the other Sat boards, and we value that here.


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## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

Neil your so full of crap your eyes are brown.

Over at SatelliteGuys we have never deleted any posts unless they were spam or hacking related (or posted by you) 

Unless you allow spam and hacking posts here what freedom is different?


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## JBKing (Mar 23, 2002)

Bill R said:


> Egotism and the fighting between boards are two of the things that bugs me the most on two of the boards (here and SatelliteGuys.US).


Case in point......


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## Neil Derryberry (Mar 23, 2002)

Scott Greczkowski said:


> Neil your so full of crap your eyes are brown.
> 
> Over at SatelliteGuys we have never deleted any posts unless they were spam or hacking related (or posted by you)
> 
> Unless you allow spam and hacking posts here what freedom is different?


My eyes are blue, thank you. And your deletion policy is exactly as you state, which is fine by me.


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## Chris Blount (Jun 22, 2001)

Interesting topic. I understand how some of you guys feel. Guest posts can be pain in the butt but like Neil said, we control them the best we can. You have to understand that this forum was founded on free and open discussion of DBS issues and that includes guests who don't wish to register.

There is one thing you guys missed in this discussion. We don't look to guest posts for news or information. Guest posting is allowed mainly to encourage anyone to ask for help with their system. That is one of the main reasons why we exist. I know a lot of people who find registering to be a nuisance and just want some quick help. I have to admit when I go to other forums and just want to ask a simple question, I hate having to go through the registration process just to write a 2 line post. 

Unregistered trolls can be a problem but over the past 2 1/2 years I have learned that people who come here to cause trouble are usually registered users with multiple personalities. We see this when we look at the IP addresses. If they are behind an anonymous proxy, most of the time we delete the message. Item (p) of our terms of use prohibit the use of anonymous proxies especially with guest users.

In any case, I can understand everyone's concerns but for now we don't plan on going to registration only. As long as we can keep it reasonably under control, there really is no need.


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## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

Neil Derryberry said:


> My eyes are blue, thank you. And your deletion policy is exactly as you state, which is fine by me.


Really thought they really were brown, thats why I made the joke. 

Wait I should talk I have brown eyes :grin:


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

> Over at SatelliteGuys we have never deleted any posts unless they were spam or hacking related (or posted by you)


Gee, and you never allow guest posts. I bet you never allowed Sam Spade or Sam Spade2 to post there eaither.


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## JBKing (Mar 23, 2002)

ouch!


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Ok, kids...be nice now... 

We don't want to go there again.


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## sorahl (Oct 24, 2002)

i think that just proves that you don't need to be a GUEST to be a troll.....


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## JohnMI (Apr 2, 2002)

Maybe I should have posted this question as a Guest to avoid any repercussions. 

- John...


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## Bogy (Mar 23, 2002)

I sometimes get accused of being a troll around here for my contrarian views and I've got, let's see...Lots of posts. In fact when I have pointed this and the fact that I am #19 as some kind of proof that I wasn't just a passing troll I was accused of some kind of "elitist troll". :lol:   :grin:


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

> "elitist troll".


:lol:


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

I have a different take on guest posts. I see many guest posts that are asking legitimate questions, and quite a few knowledgeable guests who have made good contributions to our collective body of knowledge. Also, I have seen many guest posters sign on after making several posts as a guest.

I have no data, but I believe permitting guests to post is more beneficial to DBSTalk.com than it is detrimental. Just my .02.


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## Chris Blount (Jun 22, 2001)

Nick said:


> I have a different take on guest posts. I see many guest posts that are asking legitimate questions, and quite a few knowledgeable guests who have made good contributions to our collective body of knowledge. Also, I have seen many guest posters sign on after making several posts as a guest.
> 
> I have no data, but I believe permitting guests to post is more beneficial to DBSTalk.com than it is detrimental. Just my .02.


I agree with you Nick. It's very easy to think guest posts are garbage but for every one guest troll, there are several other guests who ask good questions or provide helpful insight.


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## dtcarson (Jan 10, 2003)

I also agree--sometimes the guests use the Guest in part to gauge the informational content and responsiveness of the other members before 'committing' to signing up with an actual account [I know it's not *that* huge a deal, but it is something.] If a Guest posts a question, which yes, may be a newbie question, and gets 'You IDIOT! How'd you buy a satellite dishwithout knowing that?' well, that's one Guest who probably won't come back. 
Like the old parable, what's telling is how someone treats someone else they don't know.


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## Bogy (Mar 23, 2002)

Its already been expressed, but those of us who have been around here since the very early days remember that this place was founded partly because some people were not happy about the way one of the other DBS forums was being administrated. (Also because at the time there were doubts about that other sites future.) The creator of this forum started it with an intention to make it a place less bound by legalities than some other sites. I have appreciated this forum and that attitude. For the most part I have found the administrators to be fair and conscientious in keeping order here. Sometimes they may seem to be a little heavy handed, but when you are dealing with people who sometimes act like 3 year olds frustration is a possibility. 
At other times they get criticized for not acting quickly enough. 

In the beginning this was just a small friendly (for the most part) place where everyone knew your name. Just a couple of rooms where some friends chatted about DBS and other interests. But the place has gone through extensive expansion and renovation several times now. Traffic compared to those early days is incredible. There is no way I know everyone's name anymore, not like when we had 50 members. There are times you have to wait forever to get an elevator, and Chris, the carpet in the main lobby is getting pretty tacky with all the traffic. (Thank goodness for the Gold Club where things are a little quieter and less hectic. I really appreciate the leather chairs.) 

Anyway, this site began with a philosophy that people were welcome to come in, look around, see if it was their kind of place, and if they felt comfortable to join up. If someone would post as a guest for months, then I might wonder why, but I haven't seen that happen. I'm willing to continue to let Chris run the establishment in the manner he feels best. I know he is always open to suggestions, and welcomes feedback from the members, but I don't think this is that big a problem. If anything the problem is how guests get treated. When a guest comes into my home, I try to make them feel at home, to feel welcome, to feel special. If a guest comes here we should do the same. Now if somebody comes into my home, puts their muddy boots up on my leather furniture and uses my carpet as a spittoon, I may ask him politely to leave. And I might even help him. Same here. But wait until the guest shows they are being intentionally obnoxious, and not just making dumb but honest mistakes before you roast him.

Keep up the good work Chris.


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## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

Richard King said:


> Gee, and you never allow guest posts. I bet you never allowed Sam Spade or Sam Spade2 to post there eaither.


Richard there is no need to me to post as an alais, if I have something to say I will say it and there is NO ONE who is going to stop me.

I mainly made SatelliteGuys registration only to post because we had threads with many replies from guests, and trying to figure out what guest saud what was hard. The guest feature on my software is not as robust as the guest feature here on Vbulletin.


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## Chris Blount (Jun 22, 2001)

Thanks for feedback everyone. I do a appreciate your comments. Guest posting has been a controversial issue since we opened. We will continue to do our best keeping things cleaned up. If you see a guest post that you think violates are forum rules, be sure to let one of the admin or mods know. Usually at least one of us is online to take care of the problem at any given hour. 

To Jgoggan,

I hope we answered your original question about "Why are guests allowed here". You along with Mike123ABC and Bill R have made some good points and we will keep them in mind.


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

Thanks Chris.


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## JohnMI (Apr 2, 2002)

Chris Blount said:


> To Jgoggan,
> 
> I hope we answered your original question about "Why are guests allowed here". You along with Mike123ABC and Bill R have made some good points and we will keep them in mind.


Indeed -- I can understand and respect your view on it.

I've decided to really watch the Guest postings for a while. I'm going to do a little informal survey, I guess, and just just down some notes on the Guest posts. Not to try to "convert" you or anything -- so please don't take that wrong -- I'm now simply curious about how the Guest posts end up when it comes to legit questions, troll replies, and other such things.

But, again, I respect your decision to do Guest accounts as you do. No problem. Thanks for the replies and info.

- John...


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## sorahl (Oct 24, 2002)

Maybe we can appoint such members as our DBSTalk.com Board Jesters at large?

:grin:


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## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

What happened to Bill R's post that was after jgoggan's post.

Bill made some good points and now its gone.


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

I got an e-mail from Mark about another post I made so I decided to delete that post and a couple of posts here (one of which had some of the same points) before I get kicked off the board.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

You're not going to get kicked off the board, Bill. All I did was ask you to stop attacking Bob, when he's been pretty restrained in his recent postings.


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## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

So in other words you asked Bill to censor himself 

Just goes to show you the TRUE goings on here at DBSTalk.


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

Scott,

To make it clear. Mark (or anyone else) did NOT ask me to censor myself. I deleted the one post that offended Mark and decided that I would delete a couple more "just in case".

I do NOT like the way that Mark handled the situation. He publically chastised me for posting the message (a private e-mail was ALL that was needed) and yet he has let Bob Haller go on for months and months and nothing (publically) is said. That is NOT even treatment of the members of this board.

And Scott, I think you should really refrain from criticizing DBSTalk on their own board. It just makes you seem petty and childish.


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## Chris Blount (Jun 22, 2001)

Scott Greczkowski said:


> So in other words you asked Bill to censor himself
> 
> Just goes to show you the TRUE goings on here at DBSTalk.


Oh boy. "Disgruntled former employee syndrome" rears it's ugly head yet again. The original question has been answered and there really is no reason to continue this thread. Please take this to private discussion. Scott, I suggest you mind your own store and don't worry about us.


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