# Is the 222 same as 211, except...?



## khearrean (Mar 24, 2004)

Basic question...Is the 222 simply a 211 with an extra tuner for SD? Or are there some improvements technically over the 211? I couldn't really tell by reading Dish's brochure..

Ken


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## Mikey (Oct 26, 2004)

khearrean said:


> Basic question...Is the 222 simply a 211 with an extra tuner for SD? Or are there some improvements technically over the 211? I couldn't really tell by reading Dish's brochure..
> 
> Ken


I think it's more like a 622 without the hard drive.


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## khearrean (Mar 24, 2004)

Mikey said:


> I think it's more like a 622 without the hard drive.


Thanks.....not sure what that means though.  Since they're both MPEG-4 receivers, isn't the 622 technically the same as the 211 except for the hard drive?

Ken


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## Mikey (Oct 26, 2004)

I'm just saying that I don't think there are any technical advancements beyond the 211 in the 222 because:
1) the 222 is based on the 622 (minus the disk drive)
2) the 622 and 211 were released at the same time, with similar features.


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## julesism (Feb 25, 2004)

stop me if i'm wrong, but here's a crude/simple way to look at them:

211 - single tuner no hard drive
222 - dual tuner no hard drive
622 - dual tuner with hard drive

like mikey said, the "feel" will be the same.


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## khearrean (Mar 24, 2004)

Thanks... 

Ken


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## jarvantgroup (Mar 24, 2006)

julesism said:


> stop me if i'm wrong, but here's a crude/simple way to look at them:
> 
> 211 - single tuner no hard drive
> 222 - dual tuner no hard drive
> ...


211 - single HD tuner no hard drive?
222 - dual HD tuner/SD tuner no hard drive?
622 - dual HD tuner/SD tuner with DVR?

Who exactly is Dish targeting with this new rcvr? One would think that when upgrading to HD and all that good stuff, one would lean towards the DVR as well. Could it go the way of the old 111? :icon_cool


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## Rob Glasser (Feb 22, 2005)

jarvantgroup said:


> Who exactly is Dish targeting with this new rcvr? One would think that when upgrading to HD and all that good stuff, one would lean towards the DVR as well. Could it go the way of the old 111? :icon_cool


They are targeting people that want PiP and MPEG4 HD but don't want/need DVR functionality. I could see getting one for a secondary TV where I don't use it enough to justify the additional up front cost and monthly DVR fee. Think of the Dish 322 for SD TV.


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## Jason Nipp (Jun 10, 2004)

The ViP222 is being marketed towards the DP322 crowd.

In my opinion, it resembles and operates most like a ViP622 DVR. Minus the DVR capability that is...


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Jason, why you obfuscated SW version number in your PDF ?  
When discussing features and glitches it's a BASE for do it.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

I would guess that it was "obfuscated" because this is not a review that will change with every software version and will probably be in place for quite some time.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

???? What's wrong here ? 
You doing review of particular device with particular version and describe features in current software.
I don't see any logic in your advocating.
You're guys at top censoring too much . You should have self esteem, Independence as non affiliated site. Sad to see this.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Mr Smith, this is a privately owned and operated website - as such the management reserves the right to edit anything posted here. Perhaps you have forgotten the rules? You can read them here. Censorship is a task for the government ... this is simply moderation.

Everything is as described in the current release software, which is L3.01 according to the E* website.

If any member with a ViP-222 would like to post any "corrections" or their own impressions of their new receiver they are, of course, welcome to do so ...


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Thanks for clarification for the version number.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

By the way, thanks Jason for the excellent, hard work in getting this together.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Yes, and looking forward for updates - will be nice to see it internally as Earl usually doing in his reports for D* receivers.


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## khearrean (Mar 24, 2004)

Jason:

I wasn't sure where to post this question, either here or in the same thread as your 222 review. Feel free to move it if it needs to be there.

Maybe I missed this in the review, but I was especially interested in knowing if the 222 would pass audio via HDMI. There seems to be some question as to whether the 211 will. I haven't been able to try it because my A/V receiver is not HDMI capable, but I have one on order which is. For the time being I'm using optical from the 211 to my receiver. I was hoping to not have to do that when I received the new A/V receiver so I could go strictly HDMI all the way for all my sources (SAT HD & HD DVD), but I did read a post by "teachsac" in the 211 thread where he said (to his knowledge), the 211 would not pass 5.1 audio via HDMI. He also indicated he heard there was a software upgrade coming to correct the issue. (I had even e-mailed Dish Tech Support & never did get a straight answer). It would be great if the 222 corrected this issue & would make the upgrade totally worth it (for me at least) for this benefit alone. 
Any thoughts or can you ask your Dish engineering contacts for feedback?

Ken


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

My 211 passes audio via HDMI ... the only question would be what level of audio is passed (stereo or 5.1). My TV is stereo so 5.1 on HDMI does me no good.

My 622 also passes audio via HDMI ... the 222 should do at least that much.


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## khearrean (Mar 24, 2004)

James Long said:


> My 211 passes audio via HDMI ... the only question would be what level of audio is passed (stereo or 5.1). My TV is stereo so 5.1 on HDMI does me no good.
> 
> My 622 also passes audio via HDMI ... the 222 should do at least that much.


Hmmm....that's interesting. With all the advancements in a/v, I'm surprised Dish wouldn't be concentrating more on 5.1 capability. I mean no disrespect, but I would think the majority of SAT users (particularly those with HD receivers) would be more interested in DD 5.1 than 2 channel audio. So why not develop the equipment to have that capability. It could always be backward capatible for 2 channel users..

Ken


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## Jason Nipp (Jun 10, 2004)

khearrean said:


> Jason:
> 
> I wasn't sure where to post this question, either here or in the same thread as your 222 review. Feel free to move it if it needs to be there.
> 
> ...


Hi Ken,

The ViP222 does pass audio via the HDMI connection. In addition, if you are one of these bleeding edge types that has the latest AV equipment, the ViP222 can pass a Dolby Digital 5.1 signal by means of the HDMI connection. But in-order to decode and use that DD5.1 signal, you need the equipment that can actually use the signal and decode/process it in DD5.1. In my case, when I want to listen to content from the ViP222 in DD5.1 surround sound, I just use the SPDIF (toslink) connection as I don't have a grand or so right now to purchase a mid to high end stereo AV receiver just to extract the DD5.1 signal from HDMI. Hope that made sense....

Also I have tried this using an HDMI to DVI cable and it works fine, but as said in the past DVI has no embedded audio capabilities, as such you lose the audio if you convert to DVI.

I have seen many compare the ViP222 to being the same hardware and the ViP622 DVR. In my personal opinion, the ViP222 is unique hardware, it just shares cosmetics and a similar GUI.

Hope this helps,
Jason


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## khearrean (Mar 24, 2004)

Jason Nipp said:


> Hi Ken,
> 
> The ViP222 does pass audio via the HDMI connection. In addition, if you are one of these bleeding edge types that has the latest AV equipment, the ViP222 can pass a Dolby Digital 5.1 signal by means of the HDMI connection. But in-order to decode and use that DD5.1 signal, you need the equipment that can actually use the signal and decode/process it in DD5.1. In my case, when I want to listen to content from the ViP222 in DD5.1 surround sound, I just use the SPDIF (toslink) connection as I don't have a grand or so right now to purchase a mid to high end stereo AV receiver just to extract the DD5.1 signal from HDMI. Hope that made sense....
> 
> ...


Thanks for your response, Jason. I want to make sure I am understanding what you've said. By saying the 222 will pass DD 5.1 via HDMI, you are saying the 211 won't, correct? If that's the case, the 222 is definately an improvement & not the same technically as the 211 as some others have implied.

As to high dollar a/v equip., I have on order the Yamaha RX-V661 (a 7.1 unit) which comes in at around 4 bills & will matrix 5.1 uncompressed PCM audio via HDMI into 7.1 via DPLIIx. I only have (2) sources [SAT HD & HD DVD], so I only need (2) HDMI inputs & (1) HDMI output which the 661 has. Anyway, back on the subject & correct me if I am wrong. Based upon your reply, the 222 would be a better choice (over the 211) if someone definately wants *DD 5.1 audio *via HDMI? I just want to be able to take advantage of that capability which also eliminates unnecessary cables. Plus, supposedly if you believe what's written in some articles, HDMI provides a more pure audio than optical provided, as you said, you have the proper processor/decoder.

Ken


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Jason Nipp said:


> <skip>
> I have seen many compare the ViP222 to being the same hardware and the ViP622 DVR. In my personal opinion, the ViP222 is unique hardware, it just shares cosmetics and a similar GUI.
> 
> Hope this helps,
> Jason


Jason, is there any hope for us to see in-depth technical review like Earl did for D* receivers ? With internal pictures ?


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## Jason Nipp (Jun 10, 2004)

khearrean said:


> ...By saying the 222 will pass DD 5.1 via HDMI, you are saying the 211 won't, correct? ...


No I didn't say that. But I also do not know the answer to the 211 question. I could find out, but at this exact second I do not have the answer.


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## Jason Nipp (Jun 10, 2004)

P Smith said:


> Jason, is there any hope for us to see in-depth technical review like Earl did for D* receivers ? With internal pictures ?


Not at the moment, and really,I don't have any plans to do so... being honest.


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## khearrean (Mar 24, 2004)

Jason Nipp said:


> No I didn't say that. But I also do not know the answer to the 211 question. I could find out, but at this exact second I do not have the answer.


If you don't mind & get the chance to find out, I would like to know about the 211 audio issue. If it's not designed to pass audio via HDMI & there are no plans to add the capability with a software fix, then I will most likely consider the 222. Of course I can find out myself when my new a/v receiver comes in, but I wouldn't have any way of knowing about plans for a software fix. If I don't have to upgrade to the 222, that would be better as that would be the only reason for my switching, but worth it if I have to. Unfortunately I always have that "WAF" thingy to consider 

Thanks so much,

Ken


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## Jason Nipp (Jun 10, 2004)

khearrean said:


> If you don't mind & get the chance to find out, I would like to know about the 211 audio issue. If it's not designed to pass audio via HDMI & there are no plans to add the capability with a software fix, then I will most likely consider the 222. ...


Ken, please let me ask a clarification question.

Are you asking if the ViP*211* passes audio via HDMI, or are you asking if it passes DolbyDigital 5.1 via HDMI? The first part of that question was already answered by James.


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

From the February 2007 Tech Forum:*Scott: When will DD5.1 be available over HDMI on the 622 and 211?*
Dan: Will be in L401 on the 622, sometime in May for the 211.​The 622 did got 5.1 added. It looks like the 211's update won't be until very late May, until then it passes 2.0.


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## Mikey (Oct 26, 2004)

BobaBird said:


> From the February 2007 Tech Forum:*Scott: When will DD5.1 be available over HDMI on the 622 and 211?*
> Dan: Will be in L401 on the 622, sometime in May for the 211.​The 622 did got 5.1 added. It looks like the 211's update won't be until very late May, until then it passes 2.0.


It's already well past late May.


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## khearrean (Mar 24, 2004)

Jason Nipp said:


> Ken, please let me ask a clarification question.
> 
> Are you asking if the ViP*211* passes audio via HDMI, or are you asking if it passes DolbyDigital 5.1 via HDMI? The first part of that question was already answered by James.


I interpreted James answer to say he wasn't sure about DD 5.1 because he doesn't need (or use) that capability.

But yes, I am talking about DD 5.1 via HDMI. But it looks like from "Bobabird's" post that there is a plan to implement a software fix to remedy this issue. But that it's just past due.

Thanks,

Ken


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## khearrean (Mar 24, 2004)

BobaBird said:


> From the February 2007 Tech Forum:*Scott: When will DD5.1 be available over HDMI on the 622 and 211?*
> Dan: Will be in L401 on the 622, sometime in May for the 211.​The 622 did got 5.1 added. It looks like the 211's update won't be until very late May, until then it passes 2.0.


I'm glad to read about this. I guess I had overlooked it from the February Tech Forum. 
What's interesting though about this is that the couple of times I have e-mailed Dish Tech Support about this issue, the different ones who answered have never indicated they knew anything about a planned software fix or how to answer my question. I know I have stated this before (and I'm not bashing), but I really do not understand why some in technical know about certain issues & others do not. Don't they have meetings like the rest of us in our respective industries? In my business if there is a machine improvement or engineering change planned, every Engineer within the corporation knows about it along with every intimate detail about it..That's the least our customers expect from us.

Ken


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

It is not a surprise that you will get different answers when calling Dish. A shame, but not surprising. I find that most companies I deal with are this way... I am having a round of discussions with my TV manufacturer (Toshiba) right now about an upgrade option for my TV. I called and was told it did not exist. I emailed and was told it was not even possible... but I pointed them to their own documentation and specs for the TV and then finally got someone to say "Oh yeah, you're right"... and now I am waiting for a supervisor to see if I can move forward.

Companies in general tend to be bad about keeping the whole company in the loop for some reason.

Anyway, back on topic... Someone beat me to the mention of the last Tech chat.. I remembered that Dolby 5.1 was supposed to be fixed already on the ViP622 and that the 211 was supposed to be soon thereafter... but hadn't seen any more mention, so it looks like it may or may not have been addressed there yet.

I don't have HDMI on my TV... so I can't verify my ViP622 HDMI works properly, but gather from some other folks that has been working now with the latest software... so maybe the 211 fix is close.

I suppose if the 222 is essentially a 622 without the hard drive and DVR features... it could even be running the same software (with DVR stuff not available of course)... so it *may* be possible to see something like this on the 222 at the start even before the 211 is addressed... so patience may be a factor in your decision if you have a choice between it working right now vs a month or so from now.

If you are running through an audio receiver instead of directly to the TV... maybe you could use optical in the meantime if you go the patience route?


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Jason Nipp said:


> Not at the moment, and really,I don't have any plans to do so... being honest.


That sad, Earl established high level of the type of reviews here. Will be nice have same quality for Dish devices too.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

P Smith said:


> That sad, Earl established high level of the type of reviews here. Will be nice have same quality for Dish devices too.


Out of fairness.... there are many aspects of Jason's review that I find amazing... and wish I incorporated into my reviews... as it will be a while until a new piece of hardware comes out, for me to improve my reviews.

Cracking open the shell and taking a look at the insides, is kinda my signature to my reviews... but that is just the geek in me...

But for example the images on page 4 of Jason's review, that has all the bubbles and descriptions of all the ports... that is just sweet... 
Jason's review is great for the average and the above average.
While the ones I have done, have always been a tad more on the geeky/techy side of the fence.

We all have different styles, and the only thing we can do... is make our next review "that much" better, then the last.

So....... :backtotop (and thank you for the comments, and suggestions to improve all our DBSTalk reviews)


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## khearrean (Mar 24, 2004)

khearrean said:


> I'm glad to read about this. I guess I had overlooked it from the February Tech Forum.
> What's interesting though about this is that the couple of times I have e-mailed Dish Tech Support about this issue, the different ones who answered have never indicated they knew anything about a planned software fix or how to answer my question. I know I have stated this before (and I'm not bashing), but I really do not understand why some in technical know about certain issues & others do not. Don't they have meetings like the rest of us in our respective industries? In my business if there is a machine improvement or engineering change planned, every Engineer within the corporation knows about it along with every intimate detail about it..That's the least our customers expect from us.
> 
> Ken


I'm posting this below to show the kind of responses I get whenever I e-mail Dish tech support. Here is one I just received in response to an e-mail I sent them asking about the very thing in my above post. My question to them was simple; does the 222 or 211 either support DD 5.1 audio via HDMI or are there future plans to do so? Again, I'm not bashing, but just pointing out the challenges in getting info from them. This is also why I rely on this forum so heavily.

_Dear Mr. Hearrean,

Thank you for your e-mail. Unfortunately we do not have any information on these aspects at this time. Please stay tuned to Charlie chat and visit www.Dishnetwok.com for the latest information in our receiver capabilities. _

See what I mean...

Ken


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## satguy06 (Jan 11, 2006)

i have a vip 211. how can i program PIP in my remote?


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## satguy06 (Jan 11, 2006)

or better question. can i get PIP if i have a vip211?


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## Rob Glasser (Feb 22, 2005)

The 211 is a single tuner, therefore no PiP. You have to have a dual tuner receiver AND you have to have it in single mode (if it supports multiple modes) to have PiP.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Nope.. 211 is a single tuner box so you cannot do PIP.


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## satguy06 (Jan 11, 2006)

thanks for the info. with the vip222 can i get PIP?


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Check out Jason's review at the top of this forum. I believe the answer is yes if I recall, but I personally have not played with one.


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## satguy06 (Jan 11, 2006)

ok. last question. is the vip222 out yet and how much would it be to upgrade from the vip211 to the vip222?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

*ViP222: $169 upfront cost, -$50 DISH'n It Up Bonus - $100 HD Bonus = $19*
per the Charlie Chat this past Monday evening. (Chat Summary here)
Since you already have a ViP-211 you likely have the $20 DishHD and that bonus would _not_ apply.
That would leave you with a $119 upgrade cost.

You might get a better deal from Dish depending on account history. Give them a call.


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## satguy06 (Jan 11, 2006)

thanks James. one more thing. i know the vip222 has PIP. that said, that would be all i need to get PIP? I wouldn't need any other receiver connect it to it for PIP?


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## Rob Glasser (Feb 22, 2005)

satguy06 said:


> thanks James. one more thing. i know the vip222 has PIP. that said, that would be all i need to get PIP? I wouldn't need any other receiver connect it to it for PIP?


As long as you have both satellite inputs plugged into the back of the 222 and you are in single mode you will have pip. No other receiver needed.


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## satguy06 (Jan 11, 2006)

so, if i want to upgrade from a vip211 to a vip222 it will cost me $119 like James said?


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## Rob Glasser (Feb 22, 2005)

satguy06 said:


> so, if i want to upgrade from a vip211 to a vip222 it will cost me $119 like James said?


You need to call Dish or e-mail [email protected] to get an exact price. For customers that are eligible for DISH'n It Up you save $50.00 on the $169.00 price, so yes $119.00. If you have never had the new DishHD you are eligible for another $100.00 off ($10.00 for 10 months), I'm assuming this does not apply to you because you already have a 211.


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## HDdude24 (Feb 9, 2006)

Rob Glasser said:


> You need to call Dish or e-mail [email protected] to get an exact price. For customers that are eligible for DISH'n It Up you save $50.00 on the $169.00 price, so yes $119.00. If you have never had the new DishHD you are eligible for another $100.00 off ($10.00 for 10 months), I'm assuming this does not apply to you because you already have a 211.


I have 2 vip211's you think I'm eligible to upgrade one?


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## Jason Nipp (Jun 10, 2004)

HDdude24 said:


> I have 2 vip211's you think I'm eligible to upgrade one?


Call them up and ask... Never any hurt in asking.


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