# Dishplayer 7200 strikes again...



## djlong (Jul 8, 2002)

So I'm watching the recorded Olympics coverage this morning at about 12:05AM. Then, nothing. Black picture... Ok, after some waiting, I determine that the DP has crashed.

I get the 'getting TV linfo' screen and wait 15 minutes.
Then I get the "Preparing your update" screen.
Then it reboots and I get the 'getting TV info" screen again and wait.

Then, a half hour later, when it's all done, I go back to PTV.

Nothing. No recordings. Wiped out. My wife is camping for a week and wanted me to save the Olympic opening ceremonies for her. I was going to run them off to my computer along with some of the other coverage. Now - nothing. All the Stargates I had, Monk, The Prisoner, a couple of movies - all that I'd saved to watch while I was recovering from surgery - gone.

I've had this thing for over 4 years and they still can't get it right. Why on EARTH would I trust anything E* makes with a hard drive in it?

I'm up for a contract that should have me working again long term and one of the things we want to do is re-do the family room and turn it into a real Home Theater with HD and everything. For that project, Dishnetwork has lost me as a customer. And it's too bad - as I prefer Dish's lineup and pricing. But if they're starting in with PTV fees for software that I wouldn't release to ALPHA testers, much less the general public, then I have to vote with my wallet. I really wanted the 921 to be 'it'. DirectHDTiVo, here I come - probably will be a few months, maybe a Christmas present for the family, but I'm on my way.


----------



## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

Can't blame you a bit, man. I lost all the recordings on my 7200 more than once. Finally "upgraded" to a 501 - and lost all my recordings on THAT once.


----------



## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

Mine is acting erratically as well. It seems to happen for a few days adter every S?W upgrade. Did you get the web TV clinnt update?


----------



## pjmrt (Jul 17, 2003)

Ditto. My old 7200 acts up after a S/W update too. After a hard reboot, it seems to recover though. Still, I don't think its ever caused recorded shows to be deleted. Might be indications of a dieing hard drive. The drive in my 721 did that just before biting the dust.


----------



## Joe Q (May 7, 2002)

pjmrt said:


> Ditto. My old 7200 acts up after a S/W update too. After a hard reboot, it seems to recover though. Still, I don't think its ever caused recorded shows to be deleted. Might be indications of a dieing hard drive. The drive in my 721 did that just before biting the dust.


djlong,

Do yourself a favor and dump your DP and switch over to DirecTV and get a DirecTivo. It's 10X better than the DP, and you don't have to put up with all the annoying aggravating problems.

I had the same thing happen to me 3 times before I switched over to DirecTV a month and a half ago. Dish Network will probably deny it, but this and other DP problems are being caused by the Dishplayer ECM that they started sending out a couple months ago.

I read some of the posts in the Echostar hacking groups, and some of the things that you I have suffered, as well as other DP problems that have been reported recently, are all being caused by (or are all ill side effects of) Dish Network's DP ECM.

Legitimate, paying DP customers are being hosed by these things, that are being done by Dish Network. And when you call in to complain about it, they say they have no idea what's really causing the problem, and they tell you they have nothing they can do, to try to help you out with your problem.

They won't be sympathetic about what you've just gone through, and they won't offer you any type of compensation either. The only thing they'll try to do is tell you your DP is defective, and you probably need to get it replaced. Then they'll try to tell you that you have to pay for it too, because your DP is out of warranty.

That's a real nice deal, isn't it? They do something that's causing the problem that your having, and then they try to tell you that you have to pay to get the problem (that they're causing) fixed.

What the hell is wrong with that picture?

Oops... I forgot for a minute where I was actually posting. I'm not supposed to be saying stuff like that here in this group, am I?

Sorry, but I've got to tell the truth, and I've got to let everybody know. A lot of these current DP problems are being caused by, or are a direct side effect of, Dish Network's new Dishplayer ECM.

To be the one's who are actually causing the problems, which are inconveniencing DP customer's....

and then telling them that it's not, is straight out lying, if you ask me. Then to tell that person his (or her) equipment is defective, and it needs to be replaced at that customer's own expense is very wrong too.

But that's just that way that Dish Network does business. At least with it's DP customer's, that's what they do.

It's not right, and they should admit what THEY'RE doing is what's causing the problems. And not try to make deliberate lying excuses.

I didn't want to switch over to DirecTV, but Dish Network gave me no choice in the matter. They told me I'd have to pay for a DP replacement, if I wanted to continue on as a Dish Network DP customer. I told them I wasn't going to. (because I knew something they were doing, was what was actually causing the problem)

It wasn't until after I switched over to DirecTV, that I read all of those posts in the Echostar hacking groups. All of the things that they had experienced when their illegal DP's got ECM'd, were things that I had experienced too, just before I cancelled my Dish Network service, and I switched over to DirecTV.

Knowing I had to switch over for that reason, leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. I was a loyal Dish Network customer for almost 7 years before I was forced to switch over to DirecTV. Dish Network should have treated me better than what they did, but they didn't. And now the rest is history.

I'm now a happy DirecTV customer, who owns a DirecTivo, and doesn't have all the problems that he once had, with that aggravating thing that they call the Dishplayer.

Dish Network, you should really treat your DP customers a lot better than what you do. After all of the aggravation that you've put them through all of these years. They deserve a lot better, than what they have gotten. JMHO


----------



## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

I knew we would see that posted.


----------



## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

Yeah, but he's probably right.


----------



## finniganps (Jan 23, 2004)

I'm glad I sold my 7100 in January for big bucks on e-bay! That experience really stinks!


----------



## djlong (Jul 8, 2002)

He's not far from the truth. When my DP was going through the worst of it's malfunctions (remember the awful time they had getting ready for LIL - 32768 codes every day for 2 weeks among other problems) I called Dish several times outraged at how bug-ridden their software was. Their offer?

- 3 free months of Showtime
OR
- I could pay as much as I had paid for my DP and get a new 500-series DVR

Neither one solves the problem of bad software. When I go HD, I really *want* to stay with Dish (as I said, I like the lineup) but they're forcing me to leave. I mean, come on, $1000 for something with as many problems as the 921? If it was an isolated incident, as we all originally believed the DP was, I'd be very sympathetic. But it's not. Every single E* DVR has these kinds of problems and it's so damnably frustrating because I was a real E* cheerleader. I really feel for the person who paid $1000 *and* a monthly PVR fee...

I waited for WEEKS to get the 124 update - that's the one that was *forced* on to my system WHILE I WAS WATCHING A RECORDED PROGRAM - only to have it wipe everything out. I'd honestly thought the DP was done with those kinds of errors. Guess I was wrong.


----------



## Joe Q (May 7, 2002)

djlong,

I used to feel the same way that you did too. But I got disillusioned with all the DP problems, long before you did. I realized that Dish's PVR software was nothing but lousy cheap crap. Always buggy, and a lot of time unreliable. But since they weren't charging a monthly fee for their PVR service, the problems and the annoyances were tolerable. But once they tried to re-institute the monthly fee again, I could see the handwriting on the wall.

I also used to think the same way that you do, about Dish Network's programming. But now that I'm a DirecTV customer, I can tell you (at least from my own point of view) you get more bang for your buck with DirecTV. It wasn't always that way, but it is now.

I'm getting the DirecTV Total Choice Premier Package with locals for only $70.98 a month. That's equivalent to Dish Network's Everything Package. What's the price of that package? $80 some odd dollars a month? And the actual quality of the DirecTV channels are better too. The only thing that I can't get (or the only things that I really miss) are the Superstations and HBO Comedy. Plus my $4.99 a month DirecTivo fee is waived every month too.

Picture quality is better, and the features included in the Tivo software are incredible. How Dish Network can charge $9.99 a month for the buggy DP, when DirecTV is only charging $4.99 a month for the DirecTivo is a mystery to me. They should be put in jail for doing something like that. The extreme differences in the 2 services is like night and day. The service that's charging half as much, is 10X better than the service that stinks, and is charging twice as much.

How the heck does something like that make any sense?

Regarding that incident where you lost all your PTV recordings, I read that's exactly how the DP ECM works. It disrupts the TV program that you are watching, then it goes to retrieve TV listings, or it automatically reboots your system without your actually doing it. Then it goes into that "preparing your receiver for an update" mode. That's when the ECM is actually applied, and then when it's finished, your DP is hosed in one way or the other. Either your hard drive gets wiped out, or your receiver gets fried, and you're forced to get a replacement.

Considering your particular incident happened at... 12 or 12:30am did you say? I'd say your DP probably got hosed by the DP ECM. If you were getting the newest DP client side upgrade, you would have gotten it with the normal 3am DP download. But getting hit at the time that you did, leads me to believe otherwise.

I could be wrong, but I really don't think that I am. I can't prove it, but I know what I have read, and I know what I personally went through, before I cancelled my Dish Network service, and switched over to DirecTV. Form your own conclusions, but these are the things that I think and believe.

Bottom Line

To me, DirecTV is the better service. They're offering better deals right now, and the quality of service that you get with *their* service, is far superior than what you get with Dish Network.

Yes, I know I'm saying these things at DBSTalk. But I'm being perfectly honest here. I've had both services, and to me, DirecTV is the hands down winner in every category. I know that'll be hard for a lot you E* cheerleaders to accept, but to me, it's the absolute honest to god truth. DirecTV outclasses Dish Network in every single area. Period.

OK, I've said all that I wanted to say. We now return you to your normal regular scheduled programming.

Good Night All


----------



## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

*Troll *:bonk1: :uglyhamme :kickbutt:


----------



## StevenZ (Aug 15, 2003)

For what it's worth, my DP7100's hard drive died recently. On the way there, it looked like it was trying to take SW updates, and I ultimately lost all my recordings. I know the 30GB drive had lasted a few years since I dropped it in to replace the original ~8GB one.

If I were paranoid, I'd blame E* ECM for 'killing' a perfectly good drive. But I prefer to believe that the drive had reached end of life. All I lost was a season finale or two that I hadn't watched -- nothing that won't come around again.

The best part was being able to drop in a new 40GB drive in 15 minutes, and wait about an hour or so for the software parts to load, and I now have a good little machine again. Not bad for a hardware design that started shipping 5 years ago.

I'll dump the thing when I can afford an HD DVR (not 921!), but I like it enough to have no interest in replacing it with any 5xx or even 721 receiver.


----------



## Joe Q (May 7, 2002)

Nick said:


> *Troll *:bonk1: :uglyhamme :kickbutt:


A comment like that coming from Nick the Resident Curmudgeon is totally expected.

But tell me Nick, what really happened to your 2 previously "working fine", "never had a problem before" DP's?

They just both suddenly died simultaneously, after 5 years of loyal, faithful, dependable, rock solid service, right?

Yeah, they just both decided to give out at the same time, right?

Please, Nick. You know exactly what happened to your DP's. You're just such a big E* brown nose that you let them get away with doing what they did. Then you actually paid them to send you out a replacement.

That's the difference between you and me Nick. Because you like E* so much, you'll let them get away with stuff like that. But me, I'll yell and scream and get in their face when they do something wrong. I don't want to have to do it, but it's the only way to keep them honest. That's the only reason why I do it. You and others here may not like it, but I have no regrets doing what I have done. Any time I have complained, it has been for a reason. And results have come because of my complaining. The results of my complaining have probably benefitted you and others here, at one time or another.

Maybe my spouting my personal opinions regarding E* vs D* here in this forum was a mistake. I said what I meant, but maybe it wasn't the wisest thing to do here at DBSTalk. I apologize, and Admin & Mods, if you think my post was inappropriate and should be edited, go right ahead. But I think I have a right to say all the other things that I said.


----------



## finniganps (Jan 23, 2004)

Joe, I'm glad to hear that you like D* so much. It will be interesting to see what kind of problems they have once they switch AWAY from the TiVo boxes and FOLLOW E* path of making their own boxes.......I just don't see how they are going to do a BETTER job than E* who has been doing this for several years. Are the E* boxes buggy.....Yes, but overall I really like my 508 and 721. The dual tuner on the 721 is fantastic. For me I get a better value with E* than D* or cable (I have the basic package, 60 plus locals). Unless I see D* as a better OVERALL value or if the customer service for E* declines significantly than I'll consider D*...until then I'll stick with Charlie.

BTW: I did own a 7100 for 5 years so I am familiar with some of the problems you stated.


----------



## djlong (Jul 8, 2002)

For the record - I got in on the $99 PTV for {life|3 years} deal. I got an offer for a settlement in the class action suit, but all the 'offers' were absolutely, 100% worthless. The only 'hacking' that my DP has undergone was the ~40GB hard drive that I put into it shortly after purchasing it. I've had credit-card autopay since my account was started.

It's not a 'troll' - it's my anger at having been a loyal customer who's paid upwards of $5000 or so for the service over the years. It's my disappointment at seeing the service that I like so much being hobbled by ridiculously low-quality products.

When I leave, if asked by any particular 'retention' person, I will give a long, articulate and polite dissertation on all the things that lead to me leaving. After that, I will ask them - how can you solve this problem? Is the 921 working? How about the Dishwire you originally advertised? Pioneer has a TiVo-based box that has a DVD burner. If, as expected later this year, D* finally adds HMO to their TiVo boxes, will I be able to hook up a DVD burner to archive stuff? Can you honestly compare quality between the 921 and HDTiVo and say they are worth the same price (purchase *and* monthly)?

I am open to being convinced. I do *not* want to leave.


----------



## finniganps (Jan 23, 2004)

I don't think that you're going to get a retention person calling you at all, but I could be wrong. Hang on to your equipment in case you decide to come back.

Be sure to ask D* BEFORE you switch what happens to existing subscribers once the TiVo deal expires - will you still be able to get the program updates or will you need new boxes, etc? Hopefully you'll be able to keep the boxes and the new boxes will only go to new subscribers.


----------



## djlong (Jul 8, 2002)

I can't believe that D* would want to honk off their hundreds of thousands of DirecTiVo subscribers by telling them their boxes no longer worked come 2007.

Most analysts I've read are *speculating* that TiVo will be the 'high end' DVR that D* will sell, with their own boxes being the low and middle-tier DVR. Makes perfect sense to me (which is why there's less than a 100% chance it'll happen)


----------



## stonecold (Feb 20, 2004)

Before any more dish vs dtv crap goes on lets look at the facts

MS made the 7x00 it runs off of MS code and MS patents ( hence the only reason why the 7x00 has name based recording. )

MS made another crappy IRD but for Direct TV that is almost identical to board design and bugs it was called Ultimate TV.

Dish still supports the 7x00 even though it buggy

DTV does not even want to hear the word ultimate tv. 

If DTV was going to keep tivo as a highend dvr why did they sell there stock and which caused tivo stock to go down the **** hole. 

where tivo is going to surive is licensing of software. Not making there hardware. 

Is the general feeling dish pvrs are crap well yeah it seems like it with the way with no name base recording and crappy ui in 501 508 510 model.... Hopefully charlie will give us all a christmas president of name based recording even though they had predicted it be out for the summer.


----------



## Lee L (Aug 15, 2002)

djlong said:


> When I leave, if asked by any particular 'retention' person, I will give a long, articulate and polite dissertation on all the things that lead to me leaving. After that, I will ask them - how can you solve this problem? Is the 921 working? How about the Dishwire you originally advertised? Pioneer has a TiVo-based box that has a DVD burner. If, as expected later this year, D* finally adds HMO to their TiVo boxes, will I be able to hook up a DVD burner to archive stuff? Can you honestly compare quality between the 921 and HDTiVo and say they are worth the same price (purchase *and* monthly)?
> 
> I am open to being convinced. I do *not* want to leave.


I was you right about May 1st. Be ready for a long and insipid conversation with someone who knows nothing and will only be willing to give you a few months of free Showtime but wil talk to you for an hour if you let them. They will say that the 921 is great and you should try one of those. It is a real waste of time.

While my DP's had actually worked well the last couple of years, my HR10-250 and SD-DVR 40 just work and work and work. They never miss a recording without me knowing about it ahead of time since there is a to do list that tells you about any conflicts you have coming up. I can set up shows to record ahead of time without being afraid that they won't record. The DirecTiVo is a worthy replacement to the DP and you will not be unhappy if you make the change.


----------



## Joe Q (May 7, 2002)

stonecold said:


> Before any more dish vs dtv crap goes on lets look at the facts
> 
> MS made the 7x00 it runs off of MS code and MS patents ( hence the only reason why the 7x00 has name based recording. )
> 
> ...


stonecold, have you ever owned or used a DirecTivo?


----------



## stonecold (Feb 20, 2004)

Joe Q said:


> stonecold, have you ever owned or used a DirecTivo?


Yes I even own one. 
Bought a Direct Tivo to replace a RCA 430RGA as i have a special package that dtv offeered Cband users of NFL sundayticket when they removed it a couple of years ago from cband. Where i get only NFLsunday ticket. I am not overly impressed with tivo or direct tv tivo.


----------



## Joe Q (May 7, 2002)

stonecold said:


> Yes I even own one.
> Bought a Direct Tivo to replace a RCA 430RGA as i have a special package that dtv offeered Cband users of NFL sundayticket when they removed it a couple of years ago from cband. Where i get only NFLsunday ticket. I am not overly impressed with tivo or direct tv tivo.


stonecold,

Do you think that Dish can, or will come out with PVR software, that will be better than Tivo's?

I highly doubt that they can, and I seriously doubt that they will.

Compared to Tivo's software, I think Dish's software is actually pretty simple. Basic and only rudimentary, with no advanced features like Season Passes or individual WishLists. The best that I think you guys can hope for in an improvement, is basic name based recordings. And at what cost too? Wasn't it said that if that feature were added sometime in the future, it might actually increase the cost of Dish's DVR service?

I always felt Dish should have done what DirecTV did, and leased the Tivo software, and incorporated it into their own DVR recorders. I know many of you here would have loved something like that. (A Dish Network DishTivo)  But they didn't, and they decided to keep everything strictly home grown, and strictly in-house. I guess that's just the way Dish Network does things.

I hope you guys do get name based recordings added to your DVR service very soon. God knows, you really do deserve it.


----------



## stonecold (Feb 20, 2004)

Gets down to alot of people dont like tivo.... Tivo is not the end all as you are stating. if I wanted dish to license anyone interface and software it would be replay's 

7x00 is an amazing unit. sure it been buggy but have gotten better has I real nice UI. So nice they used something similar in the 721 and the 921. 501 508 510 are awful ui. if anything I do belive that dish should replace the ui on those recievers because the basic ui that you see on 301 and other open tv enabled recievers is just fine for those non dvr boxes but just sucks 


Name based recording will come. 

But Jon it comes down to this if those E customers who want tivo like interface they can go buy a tivo and hook it up to there 301's etc. as tivo has droped so much that they are dirt cheap.


----------



## djlong (Jul 8, 2002)

FTR - DTV sold a *lot* of stock holdings. It was part of a stated corporate policy of divesting themselves of investments. They sold stock in XM radio but you don't see people saying that XM is going to die because of it do you?


----------

