# Is Something amiss with these new 24-500 receivers!!!



## Mrmiami (Oct 3, 2006)

As another post has referenced why are the two HR24-500 losing sound when going from HD to Standard definition? Also, the HDMI Splitter that worked almost flawlessly with my 2 Samsung tv's no longer works for either one. Upon further inspection using the info key on the TV remotes both TV's are reporting no timing information is being sent out with the signal. Has anyone else who is using a splitter and HR24-500 receivers having this problem also or is this just a software fix (CE) that I have missed? I'm still running on 0x3ba and have missed 2 CE's since my install.

The problem with the loss of sound occurs even when running a straight HDMI line to the TV from the Sat Receiver when changing from a HD program to a Standard def program and then I have to go in and monkey around with the resolution settings to watch current program.

I hear all kinds of praise for this receiver as "being the Cadaillac" of receivers with only a few minor quirks. Rendering my bedroom TV useless is more than a minor quirk for me and to be forced to purchase another receiver and install in order to get it back is not a quirk at all.


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## Jason Whiddon (Aug 17, 2006)

Mine is running thru a Denon AVR via HDMI, and I see audio dropouts rarely, but they do happen. The rcvr is new, and as with all from Dish and Directv, it'll prob take a good 6 months to really fine tune it.

Compared to what we've had, this is a "Cadillac".


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

The HR24-500 does do something differently with HDMI. When using it through my DVDO video processor straight through, the TV turns to a green picture for about two seconds during a channel change, whereas, the HR22 and HR20 dont.
If I enable the "Block HDCP for unencrypted channels" the unit switches channels instantly with no green screen. 
I suspect they added some HDCP stuff in the HR24 that isnt present/working/active on the other boxes.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

I am running HDMI from my HR24-500 to my Samsung LCD and then Optical Digital Audio to my Denon AVR5803 and I Experience No Audio Dropouts so perhaps this Issue is totally related to an HDMI Bug in the Software for the HR24.

I do have a problem when I turn off my LCD I lose Audio but now it seems to have been fixed but others have said that after so many minutes (like 10 minutes) it will lose the Audio.

I haven't had time to try it as I am on vacation but I will when I get back.


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## ktm250 (May 22, 2010)

Seeing how we are talking HDMI problems (I also believe that there is a problem with it), I will add the one that I am seeing. My old HR21 and my son's HR23 hooked up through hdmi to our Samsung tv's will cause our HDMI Black Level settings to be grayed out. I was told that this means that you are running full range out of the hdmi and the receiver is controlling the black level. My HR24 does not do this and the picture on my old HR21 is better then the HR24. 
richierich you mention a HDMI Bug in the Software for the HR24. Do you have any more info on that?


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## Bruce W (May 28, 2010)

I also have issues with HDMI on the HR-24. As I posted in the software thread for the HR-24, I get a message saying I cannot use the HDMI output. I have it through a four port switch and out to my 50" rear screen Mitsubishi's DVI port. There is no pattern to how often I get the messages on screen. Sometimes it's an eye blink, and sometimes I can actually read the message. I chimed in because my sound is also digital optical out to my entertainment center and I'm not having any issues at all with sound, and I have Dolby Digital active. Maybe the sound issue some are having is related to the HDMI as mentioned earlier.


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## Robert L (Dec 13, 2005)

Davenlr said:


> The HR24-500 does do something differently with HDMI. When using it through my DVDO video processor straight through, the TV turns to a green picture for about two seconds during a channel change, whereas, the HR22 and HR20 dont.
> If I enable the "Block HDCP for unencrypted channels" the unit switches channels instantly with no green screen.
> I suspect they added some HDCP stuff in the HR24 that isnt present/working/active on the other boxes.


Just curious if you use HDMI audio and if so, do you lose the audio after the display is turned off, going through the DVDO. If you use a audio receiver of course. That appears to be a issue, but some say it might take 10 minutes. I was wondering if the DVDO might keep that from happening.

Also, is there a difference in video levels coming out of the HR24? Since another user, KTM250 is saying it appears to be different. I would hope beta testers or anyone would instantly see if the video levels were expanded, instead of limited (video) as they should be.


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## Mrmiami (Oct 3, 2006)

Just a little more elaboration on my previous post, the HDMI splitter I am using is the Gefen TV 1:4 HDMI 1.3 splitter which is a/v and said to be HDCP compliant. I am losing the audio through HDMI connecting to my TV only for now, I have't branched out to even check the TOS connection to my receiver because I didn't get that far yet. Now as soon as I disconnect the other cable from the Gefen, which goes to my TV upstairs in the bedroom all comes back fine but can not be the cable or splitter alone because this setup worked fine with my HR20-700 a week ago. Something has change and I can't figure it out.


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## SPACEMAKER (Dec 11, 2007)

The HR24's are probably still just in need of a few firmware updates. No reason to panic.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

I have a HR24-500 HDMI connected to a Samsung LN-S4696D and don't have issues with audio dropping when going between HD and SD channels like the OP reported for what it's worth.


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## Mrmiami (Oct 3, 2006)

RAD said:


> I have a HR24-500 HDMI connected to a Samsung LN-S4696D and don't have issues with audio dropping when going between HD and SD channels like the OP reported for what it's worth.


But is that signal coming out of your receiver and being split through and HDMI splitter? That is where my problem is happening, I can run an HDMI connection off the 24-500 to my 63" Samsung Plasma or My 32" LCD Samsung independantly (one at a time) with no problem but when that signal is passed through a splitter it's either or but not both. It saves me from having to buy another receiver for my smaller bedroom set.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

Mrmiami said:


> The problem with the loss of sound occurs even when running a straight HDMI line to the TV from the Sat Receiver when changing from a HD program to a Standard def program and then I have to go in and monkey around with the resolution settings to watch current program.





Mrmiami said:


> But is that signal coming out of your receiver and being split through and HDMI splitter? That is where my problem is happening, I can run an HDMI connection off the 24-500 to my 63" Samsung Plasma or My 32" LCD Samsung independantly (one at a time) with no problem but when that signal is passed through a splitter it's either or but not both. It saves me from having to buy another receiver for my smaller bedroom set.


I was just replying to this part of your OP about loosing sound even when running a straight HDMI lint to the TV from STB.

It could be that since HDMI is a two way interface that the HR24's are getting confused with the splitter telling it two different things from your two TV's.


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## Mrmiami (Oct 3, 2006)

RAD said:


> I was just replying to this part of your OP about loosing sound even when running a straight HDMI lint to the TV from STB.
> 
> It could be that since HDMI is a two way interface that the HR24's are getting confused with the splitter telling it two different things from your two TV's.


Yea sorry about that first quote, that was incorrect, i guess I had myself so riled up with all the switching of cables I've been doing that I lost track of what was hook to what. Straight though is working fine from Sat to TV, I have it isolated down to the splitter but can't figure out what has changed because nothing is different from this setup as it was with my functioning 
HR20-700 setup except for the obvious (new receiver, now single wire and DECA. I'm hoping a new CE will adress the problem but it doesn't really seem anyone is aware of this being a problem or has faced this scenerio yet so I don't know.


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## djrobx (Jan 27, 2009)

> I am running HDMI from my HR24-500 to my Samsung LCD and then Optical Digital Audio to my Denon AVR5803 and I Experience No Audio Dropouts so perhaps this Issue is totally related to an HDMI Bug in the Software for the HR24.


No. My HR24 drops audio frequently to my Sony AV receiver, connected through the optical output. It dropped once typing this actually! I really hope it will be fixed with a product update.


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## jstutman (May 27, 2010)

My AVR has 2 HDMI inputs so I use a Monoprice HDMI switch. Yesterday I noticed it loosing the handshake, but today I did not notice no problems.

The funny thing is, it is not happening when I watch a recorded video. Just live tv


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## Richard L Bray (Aug 19, 2006)

Davenlr said:


> If I enable the "Block HDCP for unencrypted channels" the unit switches channels instantly with no green screen.


How do you do that?


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Davenlr said:


> [...] I suspect they added some HDCP stuff in the HR24 that isnt present/working/active on the other boxes.


I wonder if the HR24's support HDMI 1.4 and the 21/22/23's HDMI 1.3, and whatever is different in the spec may be causing issues?


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## Mrmiami (Oct 3, 2006)

Steve said:


> I wonder if the HR24's support HDMI 1.4 and the 21/22/23's HDMI 1.3, and whatever is different in the spec may be causing issues?


Hmm, didn't think of that angle that would be a shame b/c I just bought a whole new bunch of HDMI 1.3 cables from 1 maker thinking my problem had something to do with that. So I reinvested in all quality cables of various lenghts to redo all my hookups but so far that has not fixed the HDMI splitter problem.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Mrmiami said:


> Hmm, didn't think of that angle that would be a shame b/c I just bought a whole new bunch of HDMI 1.3 cables from 1 maker thinking my problem had something to do with that. So I reinvested in all quality cables of various lenghts to redo all my hookups but so far that has not fixed the HDMI splitter problem.


Even if I'm right, I would think the 1.4 spec is backwards-compatible, so your cables shouldn't be an issue. Don't forget, most legacy displays or receivers you'd be connecting to would not be 1.4 compatible either. Nothing I own is, AFAIK.


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## ktm250 (May 22, 2010)

RAD said:


> I have a HR24-500 HDMI connected to a Samsung LN-S4696D and don't have issues with audio dropping when going between HD and SD channels like the OP reported for what it's worth.


Looks like I finally found the correct thread to be in. RAD i see that you have a Samsung tv hooked to your 24, I am assuming that you menu's a similar to my UN46B8500. Can you go into your Picture Options Settings and look at you HDMI Black Level setting and tell me if it is grayed out? 
Thanks


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## Mrmiami (Oct 3, 2006)

Steve said:


> Even if I'm right, I would think the 1.4 spec is backwards-compatible, so your cables shouldn't be an issue. Don't forget, most legacy displays or receivers you'd be connecting to would not be 1.4 compatible either. Nothing I own is, AFAIK.


Same here I don't own any AFAIK equipment either. There is one last checkpoint in my chain going to my Sammy upstairs and that is a HDMI wallplate was added to clean up my install as opposed to straight HDMI cable going out of the splitter directly up and into the TV's HDMI input. If for some reason the added throughput or the cable I added to complete the connection from the wall to the TV may in some way be incompatable with 1.3 standard (cable was marked as being 1.3) or just adding that extra jump reduced the signal so much that it's junking up the whole chain. I will be checking that last hope today but since my run falls well within the max extension of HDMI at 34 feet, I'm not holding out too much hope on it.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

ktm250 said:


> Looks like I finally found the correct thread to be in. RAD i see that you have a Samsung tv hooked to your 24, I am assuming that you menu's a similar to my UN46B8500. Can you go into your Picture Options Settings and look at you HDMI Black Level setting and tell me if it is grayed out?
> Thanks


I looked and I don't see any setting option like that, sorry.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

ktm250 said:


> Looks like I finally found the correct thread to be in. RAD i see that you have a Samsung tv hooked to your 24, I am assuming that you menu's a similar to my UN46B8500. Can you go into your Picture Options Settings and look at you HDMI Black Level setting and tell me if it is grayed out?
> Thanks


According to someone over at AVSForum: _"That setting only affects RGB over HDMI. Devices that output RGB include PC's and video games consoles. It is greyed out and doesn't have any effect when it's fed YCbCr (from DVDs, blu-ray disc, cable TV etc)."_

If that's correct, do we know if the HR24 outputs RGB or YCbCr. Perhaps someone has an advanced video processor that can report that information?


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## ktm250 (May 22, 2010)

RAD said:


> I looked and I don't see any setting option like that, sorry.


Thanks for looking for me. Wish I could find someone with a set similar to mine so I can verify what I am seeing. Or someone that can verify if the HR24 is outputting a limited or full HDMI. Calling D TV will probably be a waste of time seeing how the first person you talk to will have know idea what I am talking about. Anybody have any ideas how to fine out the answer to my question?.


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## Robert L (Dec 13, 2005)

ktm250 said:


> Thanks for looking for me. Wish I could find someone with a set similar to mine so I can verify what I am seeing. Or someone that can verify if the HR24 is outputting a limited or full HDMI. Calling D TV will probably be a waste of time seeing how the first person you talk to will have know idea what I am talking about. Anybody have any ideas how to fine out the answer to my question?.


Well, if I had one could tell you for sure. But been slow about doing it and then read about the audio handshake problem and dropped it for now.

But, you should be able to tell about the black levels by looking at the picture, or maybe the HD test pattern. The HR20 outputs YCbCr of course and levels are limited. If it outputs YCbCr they will be limited unless its screwed up.

But if your setting isn't grayed out then maybe the are using RGB but I have no idea why. Still, if its not grayed out then you can change that setting. If you mis-match levels most likely the blacks will look gray. Also will probably clip BTB. That is long as the display isn't doing something odd.

It would be wrong and retarded if they output RGB Expanded pc levels, 0-255 on a satellite receiver.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Mrmiami said:


> As another post has referenced why are the two HR24-500 losing sound when going from HD to Standard definition? Also, the HDMI Splitter that worked almost flawlessly with my 2 Samsung tv's no longer works for either one. Upon further inspection using the info key on the TV remotes both TV's are reporting no timing information is being sent out with the signal. Has anyone else who is using a splitter and HR24-500 receivers having this problem also or is this just a software fix (CE) that I have missed? I'm still running on 0x3ba and have missed 2 CE's since my install.
> 
> The problem with the loss of sound occurs even when running a straight HDMI line to the TV from the Sat Receiver when changing from a HD program to a Standard def program and then I have to go in and monkey around with the resolution settings to watch current program.
> 
> I hear all kinds of praise for this receiver as "being the Cadaillac" of receivers with only a few minor quirks. Rendering my bedroom TV useless is more than a minor quirk for me and to be forced to purchase another receiver and install in order to get it back is not a quirk at all.


You should not be able to use a splitter with hdmi and expect it to work properly. The concept of hdmi is that they tv and the receiver will talk to each other, and if you have two tvs trying to talk to one device, it screws it up.. and I believe it also is thinking there is a hdcp issue. Change your splitter for a switch, and life should be better... (check out the ones at monoprice.. I use a 5X1 and it works great with the hr24-0500 I have) For the moment, simply bypass your splitter and see if that fixes the issue.

This isn't a quirk.. This is the way its supposed to work.. If it worked on a previous unit for you, then that was a quirk in your favor, nothing more.


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## ktm250 (May 22, 2010)

Robert L said:


> Well, if I had one could tell you for sure. But been slow about doing it and then read about the audio handshake problem and dropped it for now.
> 
> But, you should be able to tell about the black levels by looking at the picture, or maybe the HD test pattern. The HR20 outputs YCbCr of course and levels are limited. If it outputs YCbCr they will be limited unless its screwed up.
> 
> ...


You last statement about 0-255 on a satellite receiver, why do you say that?

I understand that I can set it manually if it's not grayed out, I have tried both settings and still does not look as good as my HR21.
There is either something wrong with this receiver or they are doing something different with the HDMI on the HR24 (which I am trying to figure out who to ask about this). All I know is that I will not except the HR24 like this. I'm not going to upgrade to a newer receiver and have a worse picture then my old receiver.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

inkahauts said:


> You should not be able to use a splitter with hdmi and expect it to work properly.
> 
> This isn't a quirk.. This is the way its supposed to work.. If it worked on a previous unit for you, then that was a quirk in your favor, nothing more.


Inky, I revere your knowledge and posts here at DBSTALK.COM and enjoy reading them but I believe you are wrong on this Issue.

I had a HDMI Splitter to split the signal going to two TVs and it worked for more than a year and then with a Software Upgrade it Quit Working!!!

I then would unplug it and plug it back in and it would work for a few minutes and then quit. So I decided that it was a Spliiter going bad so I ordered an Upgraded Version of the First Spliiter and it has worked ever since.

I believe it is a Software Bug as related to HDMI and perhaps DHCP but there is nothing illegal about splitting your signal once you get it in your house.

Of course both TVs will have to view the same channel but my wife just want's to watch TV in the bathroom and since no one is in the bedroom it doesn't matter.

I have another problem with my HDMI signal downstairs and Directv is accutely Aware of the HDMI Problem. When I turn off the TV it Disables all Audio including my Optical Digital Audio to my Denon AVR5803 which it shouldn't do and Directv admits that. I believe that this issue has been resolved and I will test it further when I get home.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

richierich said:


> Inky, I revere your knowledge and posts here at DBSTALK.COM and enjoy reading them but I believe you are wrong on this Issue.
> 
> I had a HDMI Splitter to split the signal going to two TVs and it worked for more than a year and then with a Software Upgrade it Quit Working!!!
> 
> ...


Or it's the prior implemtations of the hardware/software has a loophole in them which allowed for HDMI splitters which has been closed with the HR24's. I worked with computer software for many years and many a time got hit with something that worked for years didn't when a new version rolled out a change which closed that loophole.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Well, the HDMI Splitter is working Fine now with my HR23-700 and it is not an HR24-500.

The other problem is with my HR24-500 and shuts down all Audio Out when I power off the TV which is clearly a Bug!!! It does not do it with the same TV when I have it connected to my HR23-700 so it clearly is a Software Bug in the HR24-500 than does not exist in the Software for the HR23-700.

I believe they have fixed it because the last two times I shut off the TV it didn't happen but some posters have said that it may take up to 10 minutes for it to Shut Off the Audio which I haven't tried because I am on vacation.


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## Mrmiami (Oct 3, 2006)

All this talk of not being able/allowed to use a splitter or that somehow a loophole has been closed with the usage of a splitter with the 24's has me doing loops right now. That's ridiculous but that being said I wouldn't put it past D* to do it either. In that way they get to force a extra charge for a receiver, install and monthy charge with a new 2 year agreement. I can see how it would be advantageous for them to do that but that would be a bad business move from a customer appreciation standpoint. To let a loophole remain open for a number of years, then promote how much better things will be with DECA and 24-500's and then find out,,,whoops, did we forget to mention you'll no longer be able to use a splitter for your bedroom set. I not saying it isn't possible because it's happening right now but you might as well do away with the RF too, that is unless your one of those people that hides your equipment away This splitting of the signal to bring/send to another TV in your bedroom is not like your pirating a signal in fact I can only watch one TV at a time. A switcher did not work for my application at the time when I wanted to have a signal go to my TV upstairs in my bedroom so I chose to invest in a high quality HDMI splitter at over $300 that worked just fine up until this changeover to the 24-500. I know it's easy to turn a blind eye to a problem and just explain it away as being something illegal but it's not and if it is then I like to see that in writing and enforced. How is a switcher any different than a splitter from a legal standpoint then? I understand all the electronical differences between the two but your still sending a signal where it didn't belong before right? 

Come on, work on the problem...not create more. There is definately a problem even going from SD to HD content, sometimes you got audio sometimes you don't. I wont even get into the MRV problems because thats not my most important issue right now but with my previous setup using 20-700's I've never seen the problems these 24's are showing right now and this is improvement? Fast is good but functionality is actually more important and I sure in time that will all get worked out because MRV is where it's at for D* right now. That is why this explaining it away as you shouldn't be able to do that as though waving your hand and poof-the problem never existed really pisses me off. I spent the entire day working on this problem swapping cables and trying different splitters to no avail and even damaged my 63" Plasma in the process of sliding it back and forth on it's wall mount and if I find out D* has done away with this capabillity and didn't say anything about it ahead of time I'm gonna blow a gasket.


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## Robert L (Dec 13, 2005)

ktm250 said:


> You last statement about 0-255 on a satellite receiver, why do you say that?
> 
> I understand that I can set it manually if it's not grayed out, I have tried both settings and still does not look as good as my HR21.
> There is either something wrong with this receiver or they are doing something different with the HDMI on the HR24 (which I am trying to figure out who to ask about this). All I know is that I will not except the HR24 like this. I'm not going to upgrade to a newer receiver and have a worse picture then my old receiver.


I was just saying that expanded video levels aren't the correct output for a satellite receiver. Expanded is pc levels (full range) which is 0-255, verses 16-235 for limited, which is TV video levels.

Now, if a display wants to use the word expanded for limited video, then that's just something about how it was designed.

But honestly I think if the HR24 was using expanded levels, there would be more talk about that in the forums.

So what exactly does the picture look like ? If the video levels aren't the same as your other DVR, then you should be able to correct it with the brightness control, and maybe contrast also.

When video levels aren't adjust correctly then the picture can look washed out and the colors not vivid. Black is displayed as dark gray. White is as light gray. The opposite is also possible, but not as likely. But then dark colors are displayed too dark, and light colors are displayed too bright.

So, do you have that HD net test pattern they do ever so often ? If not you should be able to get it somewhat close by being close at the screen adjusting the black in a dark scene.


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## Mrmiami (Oct 3, 2006)

inkahauts said:


> You should not be able to use a splitter with hdmi and expect it to work properly. The concept of hdmi is that they tv and the receiver will talk to each other, and if you have two tvs trying to talk to one device, it screws it up.. and I believe it also is thinking there is a hdcp issue. Change your splitter for a switch, and life should be better... (check out the ones at monoprice.. I use a 5X1 and it works great with the hr24-0500 I have) For the moment, simply bypass your splitter and see if that fixes the issue.
> 
> This isn't a quirk.. This is the way its supposed to work.. If it worked on a previous unit for you, then that was a quirk in your favor, nothing more.


Appreciate the suggestion but I don't need more inputs to go to one device I just want the 24's to work the same way my 20-700 and 21-200 work. So when I'm tired and want to go to bed, I can continue watching my program up there like I use to. Really, is this D* stand on this splitter issue or is this something new where just finding out about because it's the first I'm hearing about it. You make it sound like I've been doing something criminal here, if my memory serves me correctly I even seem to remember D* having some sort of promotional advertisment saying something to the effect of "start watching a program from this room and finish it here" so if it coax,RGB or HDMI what difference does it make. So I guess then what your saying is I should be buying another receiver for the bedroom to keep everything on the up and up. Well after coming home to see what the last installers did coming through my son's bedroom halfway up the frigging wall because they didn't feel like fishing some line, I might be a little reluctant to do that. My fault though I just couldn't be there this time for the install. So let me ask you because I haven't tried it yet since I shouldn't be splitting my HDMI signal is it fair to assume then that D* has also deactivated their Component outputs when HDMI is in use? There was a time when D* claimed all outputs active no matter what is being used at the time but if I shouldn't be splitting my HDMI then I shouldn't be able to use component either.


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## DogLover (Mar 19, 2007)

Mrmiami said:


> Appreciate the suggestion but I don't need more inputs to go to one device I just want the 24's to work the same way my 20-700 and 21-200 work. So when I'm tired and want to go to bed, I can continue watching my program up there like I use to. Really, is this D* stand on this splitter issue or is this something new where just finding out about because it's the first I'm hearing about it. You make it sound like I've been doing something criminal here, if my memory serves me correctly I even seem to remember D* having some sort of promotional advertisment saying something to the effect of "start watching a program from this room and finish it here" so if it coax,RGB or HDMI what difference does it make. So I guess then what your saying is I should be buying another receiver for the bedroom to keep everything on the up and up. Well after coming home to see what the last installers did coming through my son's bedroom halfway up the frigging wall because they didn't feel like fishing some line, I might be a little reluctant to do that. My fault though I just couldn't be there this time for the install. So let me ask you because I haven't tried it yet since I shouldn't be splitting my HDMI signal is it fair to assume then that D* has also deactivated their Component outputs when HDMI is in use? There was a time when D* claimed all outputs active no matter what is being used at the time but if I shouldn't be splitting my HDMI then I shouldn't be able to use component either.


I don't think Inkahauts was in anyway implying that that you were doing anything illegal, or even that there was anything unethical going on.

HDMI and HDCP are specifications. DirecTV (and any other manufacturer)
follow those specifications. Because they are human, they don't always follow them correctly, and they may have found something they weren't doing correct (according to specifications) and fixed it. It's also possible that the new/different chips in the HR24 handle these specifications differently. (In other words, it may not be DirecTV's coding at all, but a chip manufacturer's coding.)

It is a shame your setup is no longer working. Perhaps it is a bug that can/will get fixed. However, I think that Inkahauts is saying that it's possible that the old way (that worked) was the bug, and this way is correct according to the specifications.


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## videojanitor (Oct 8, 2006)

Mrmiami said:


> I just want the 24's to work the same way my 20-700 and 21-200 work...


Thanks for posting about this issue. I was considering an HR24, but like you, I use an HDMI splitter to feed multiple displays. The one I'm using is from Monoprice, and it works fine with an HR20 and an HR23. I also run a TiVo Premiere through it with no issues. However, it does cause problems for my Panasonic Blu-ray -- the center channel is missing from the audio mix when the TV decodes it. Not sure what is going on there -- it works fine when the Blu-ray is connected directly to either TV.

Sounds there is something similar happening with the HR24. The splitting of HDMI seems to be a hit-or-miss thing -- sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Unfortunately, if it doesn't work with the HR24, I'll have to take a pass on it. Maybe you should try the Monoprice splitter? It's only about $50, and they are good about returns if it doesn't work for you.


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## Richard L Bray (Aug 19, 2006)

Robert L said:


> So, do you have that HD net test pattern they do ever so often ? If not you should be able to get it somewhat close by being close at the screen adjusting the black in a dark scene.


Next time they run it is Sat 6/5 at 6:30 am (est). Following provides good explanation of how to use the test patterns:
http://www.smartcalibration.com/hdnetpatterns.html


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## Mrmiami (Oct 3, 2006)

DogLover said:


> I don't think Inkahauts was in anyway implying that that you were doing anything illegal, or even that there was anything unethical going on.
> 
> HDMI and HDCP are specifications. DirecTV (and any other manufacturer)
> follow those specifications. Because they are human, they don't always follow them correctly, and they may have found something they weren't doing correct (according to specifications) and fixed it. It's also possible that the new/different chips in the HR24 handle these specifications differently. (In other words, it may not be DirecTV's coding at all, but a chip manufacturer's coding.)
> ...


Yes after re-reading his post I most likely misinterpreted his post, yesterday was a difficult day for me and very frustrating. I spent alot of time changing out cables to see if something was wrong with that aspect and thinking I had disconnected everything from my TV's jack pack I had to slide it (63" plasma) on it's wall mount all the way to the right side of mount to get to the panel and once I did I found out one thing I totally forgot about was the Cable/antenna and I had snapped the post clean off. Don't know how or what thats gonna cost me to get fixed but it's my own darn fault for not making sure and taking my time.

Anyways, I did get all the cables (less the antenna) swapped out and unfortunately it didn't make any difference at all but like to think it had to improve something by going with heavier duty HDMI cables and eliminating a couple of the wall throughputs and going direct. I'm sure Inkahauts didn't mean it the way I initially perceived it and in fact have come to realize it may not be a major difference with the 24's because any slight change in the chip would more than likely throw this Gefen TV 1:4 out of whack and cause it to be in need of a update/mod change. It's just frustrating to know after spending so much on this upgrade that you now have to spend even more to get things back on track and the additional cost of paying for my stupid mistake with the antenna. Today I can laugh at my error where as yesterday it was a whole different story. Things will all get worked out, it's just not going to get done in a day.


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## Mrmiami (Oct 3, 2006)

videojanitor said:


> Thanks for posting about this issue. I was considering an HR24, but like you, I use an HDMI splitter to feed multiple displays. The one I'm using is from Monoprice, and it works fine with an HR20 and an HR23. I also run a TiVo Premiere through it with no issues. However, it does cause problems for my Panasonic Blu-ray -- the center channel is missing from the audio mix when the TV decodes it. Not sure what is going on there -- it works fine when the Blu-ray is connected directly to either TV.
> 
> Sounds there is something similar happening with the HR24. The splitting of HDMI seems to be a hit-or-miss thing -- sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Unfortunately, if it doesn't work with the HR24, I'll have to take a pass on it. Maybe you should try the Monoprice splitter? It's only about $50, and they are good about returns if it doesn't work for you.


Thank's for the suggestion and as a matter of fact I have a new splitter to try today and will post my results with that shortly.


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## reubenray (Jun 27, 2002)

This will affect me upgrading to a HR24 also if using a HDMI splitter is a problem. I have three different sources being sent to my projector using a Monoprice splitter.


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## bratboy (Apr 5, 2008)

Just wanted to check something. This issue concerns splitting hdmi to 2 Tv's right? I was planning on using a hdmi auto switch as my tv only has one hdmi in & want to be able to switch between 2 dvrs and my blueray player as needed. I use optical for my audio.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

reubenray said:


> This will affect me upgrading to a HR24 also if using a HDMI splitter is a problem. I have three different sources being sent to my projector using a Monoprice splitter.





bratboy said:


> Just wanted to check something. This issue concerns splitting hdmi to 2 Tv's right? I was planning on using a hdmi auto switch as my tv only has one hdmi in & want to be able to switch between 2 dvrs and my blueray player as needed. I use optical for my audio.


Perhaps some of the confusion surrounds the differences in using an HDMI signal splitter, in contrast to an HDMI line switch. These cases are not specific to the HR24, as any HD output device could be the same in terms of results.

A switch should work fine for most installations, sending the HDMI signal to the specific device designated by the switch.

In the case of a splitter, the potential exists for "issues" around the actual HDMI signal "handshake" that is required for a reliable/successful video/audio connection.

Since the HR24 will support both component HD and HDMI HD signals concurrently, perhaps you might consider using that approach if 2 concurrent displays are needed.

If the goal is to use 2 different input sources (such as the HR24 and Blu Ray player), then the HDMI switch should work fine.


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## ktm250 (May 22, 2010)

Robert L said:


> I was just saying that expanded video levels aren't the correct output for a satellite receiver. Expanded is pc levels (full range) which is 0-255, verses 16-235 for limited, which is TV video levels.
> 
> Now, if a display wants to use the word expanded for limited video, then that's just something about how it was designed.
> 
> ...


Let me give you a quote that from another forum about how the HDMI Black Level on my samsung and I'm sure many others is suppose to work.
The HDMI Black Level setting comes in to play if you are receiving an RGB signal that has an output of 0 - 255. The normal HDMI YCbCr range is 16 - 235, so it cuts the black level down. This is the reason you're not getting perfect blacks using your new receiver. The same thing happens on the PS3. You have to either set the PS3 or your cable receiver to output RGB full -> 0 - 255 or compensate it on your TV's end by changing HDMI black level settings to Low.
So if this statement is true then it looks like the HR21, HR23 are putting out the full range. Again maybe I am wrong here but I can't find anyone with that answer so far.
Not sure how it does this but again this is what I saw with my HR21 and also with my PS3 set to full the setting is grayed out. What a difference in PQ with it on full playing blurays. Again the HR24 does not do this and this in IMO is why the 21 looks better. It is shaper and deaper blacks. The test pattern will be a nice thing to try but I don't need it to see the difference in the PQ between the two receivers and I have tried many adjustments to try to improve the 24.


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## reubenray (Jun 27, 2002)

Ooops - I have a HDMI switch not a splitter.


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## reubenray (Jun 27, 2002)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Perhaps some of the confusion surrounds the differences in using an HDMI signal splitter, in contrast to an HDMI line switch. These cases are not specific to the HR24, as any HD output device could be the same in terms of results.
> 
> A switch should work fine for most installations, sending the HDMI signal to the specific device designated by the switch.
> 
> ...


Will I be able to get a 1080p signal using component instead of HDMI?


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## bratboy (Apr 5, 2008)

Ok I'm trying to understand things a bit better. Right now I have my system set up using component (3 cables) from my dvr and my blueray via hdmi. When the installer shows up to do my upgrades should I leave it that way or should I use my hdmi autoswitch to get the best image/black out of the 24's?


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

reubenray said:


> Will I be able to get a 1080p signal using component instead of HDMI?


No you won't. Component only supports up to 1080i. That said, there are no 1080p channels being broadcase on DirecTV, just "On Demand" movies.

3D does require HDMI, if you're thinking about going that route.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

bratboy said:


> Ok I'm trying to understand things a bit better. Right now I have my system set up using component (3 cables) from my dvr and my blueray via hdmi. When the installer shows up to do my upgrades should I leave it that way or should I use my hdmi autoswitch to get the best image/black out of the 24's?


I saw no difference in PQ connected via component or HDMI on a 2009 display, and I am a fanatic about picture quality.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Steve said:


> No you won't. Component only supports up to 1080i. That said, there are no 1080p channels being broadcast on DirecTV, just "On Demand" movies.
> 
> *3D does require HDMI*, if you're thinking about going that route.


Correct....and there is a new HDMI v1.4 standard being launched to support 3D within the industry as a whole. The new 3D HDTV's will all supposedly have HDMI 1.4 connections. That verion of HMDI is not required to use the DirecTV 3D HD service. The current common standard HDMI is 1.3. Therefore, the HR21 and newer DVR units will support 3D HDTV soon.

Component supports up to 1080i. Without opening up the whole 1080i/1080p debate (feel free to check out his link if you want more information on that topic - http://www.hometheatermag.com/gearworks/1106gear/ )...1080i and 1080p are both HD standards, and both excellent viewing experiences.


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## reubenray (Jun 27, 2002)

Steve said:


> No you won't. Component only supports up to 1080i. That said, there are no 1080p channels being broadcase on DirecTV, just "On Demand" movies.
> 
> 3D does require HDMI, if you're thinking about going that route.


The main reason is I am setting up a new projector and running all the wires. I may run a set of component cables also just in case. I already have two HDMI cables and a one VGA cable run.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

reubenray said:


> The main reason is I am setting up a new projector and running all the wires. I may run a set of component cables also just in case. I already have two HDMI cables and a one VGA cable run.


I would, just to play it safe. And in case you want to use them, perhaps run a coax for digital audio as well?


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## bratboy (Apr 5, 2008)

Well my JVC TV says its 720p, which I believe is its native setting, but supposedly will also do 1080i. Would I see or notice a difference if I change my DVR from 720 to 1080 or since its a few years old not worth it?


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## reubenray (Jun 27, 2002)

Projectors normally do not have audio feeds.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

bratboy said:


> Well my JVC TV says its 720p, which I believe is its native setting, but supposedly will also do 1080i. Would I see or notice a difference if I change my DVR from 720 to 1080 or since its a few years old not worth it?


Sounds like your JVC is a native 720p display, so everything you feed it that isn't 720p to begin with needs to be converted to 720p for viewing.

Whether or not the HR does a better job of converting a native 1080i signal like CBS HD, e.g., to 720p than the JVC does is a matter for your eyes to determine. 

If you were HDMI, I'd say if you let the HR convert everything to 720p you might change channels a bit more quickly, due to no HDCP re-handshaking required. Since you're using component, HDCP is not an issue, tho, so if you think the JVC does a better job, leave "native on" on the HR and let the JVC manage the conversion.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

reubenray said:


> Projectors normally do not have audio feeds.


D'oh! Had I thought about that for more than 2 seconds, I would have realized that! :lol:


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## Robert L (Dec 13, 2005)

ktm250 said:


> Let me give you a quote that from another forum about how the HDMI Black Level on my samsung and I'm sure many others is suppose to work.
> The HDMI Black Level setting comes in to play if you are receiving an RGB signal that has an output of 0 - 255. The normal HDMI YCbCr range is 16 - 235, so it cuts the black level down. This is the reason you're not getting perfect blacks using your new receiver. The same thing happens on the PS3. You have to either set the PS3 or your cable receiver to output RGB full -> 0 - 255 or compensate it on your TV's end by changing HDMI black level settings to Low.
> So if this statement is true then it looks like the HR21, HR23 are putting out the full range. Again maybe I am wrong here but I can't find anyone with that answer so far.
> Not sure how it does this but again this is what I saw with my HR21 and also with my PS3 set to full the setting is grayed out. What a difference in PQ with it on full playing blurays. Again the HR24 does not do this and this in IMO is why the 21 looks better. It is shaper and deaper blacks. The test pattern will be a nice thing to try but I don't need it to see the difference in the PQ between the two receivers and I have tried many adjustments to try to improve the 24.


I don't have a HR24 or your plasma TV so of course I don't have experience with how it handles video levels. I do know more than I'd like to about levels being wrong because of using a HTPC and how ATI,Nvidia,Intel just love to flip-flop back and forth in the past & present with different drivers.

But best I can understand your Samsung is grayed out when receiving limited levels or YCbCr. It only when RGB is coming in that its not grayed out. But RGB can be 0-255 or 16-235. I would assume normal on the samsung would be 16-235. That's what I read taking a quick look.

All I have is HR20's and they output YCbCr, as I would expect. If other models don't, well I'm not sure why. Someone posted in this thread with a DVDO, he can tell easy if its RGB or YCbCr.

Personally though, it would cause a problem if it outputs 0-255 for most people I think. But still, you can use the HDnet test pattern to adust contrast and black levels fairly close either way. Maybe you could start a thread asking if anyone else had to adjust levels a lot different, when they switched to a HR24.

Sorry, but I cannot really help any more, and maybe you have a defective box.


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## ktm250 (May 22, 2010)

Well I broke down and called D TV (against my better judgement) and got what I expected. The girl really had no idea what I was talking about and made the statement that the HDMI output should be the same. I tried to get her to pass me to someone more technical and she stated that she was technical LOL. So now I will have to wait until Saturday when the service guy comes to see what he will do. I know he is not going to have a clue on how the HDMI works on this new box. Oh and by the way according to the girl I talked to, there are zero complaints about this reciever. Now that gave me a BIG LAUGH!!!


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## Mrmiami (Oct 3, 2006)

reubenray said:


> This will affect me upgrading to a HR24 also if using a HDMI splitter is a problem. I have three different sources being sent to my projector using a Monoprice splitter.





bratboy said:


> Just wanted to check something. This issue concerns splitting hdmi to 2 Tv's right? I was planning on using a hdmi auto switch as my tv only has one hdmi in & want to be able to switch between 2 dvrs and my blueray player as needed. I use optical for my audio.


I'm hearing in general there are few if any issues with the switchers and am happy to report that my new HDMI splitter is working on both sets just fine so the trace of the problem would bring it back to my 2008 GefenTV 1:4 HDMI splitter I guess it wasn't up to the latest and greatest advancements that my little ol $45 box can handle. It's a shame that you just cant return those things for a prorated refund so they stay out of our landfills while they modify the chips/boards/firmware inside for resale but at $300 who would buy? Anyways, sorry it took so long for the update but I had to also get my car inspected today I was driving around with it a day overdue.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Mrmiami said:


> [...] I'm [] happy to report that my new HDMI splitter is working on both sets just fine [...]


Great news! Based on your testing, appears handshaking is not an issue with that $45 HDMI splitter. Perhaps you can post the details on where to get the one you're happy with, in case others are looking? TIA.


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## Mrmiami (Oct 3, 2006)

Steve said:


> Great news! Based on your testing, appears handshaking is not an issue with that $45 HDMI splitter. Perhaps you can post the details on where to get the one you're happy with, in case others are looking? TIA.


Absolutely, just wasn't sure if there was an interest but it made by VeiwHD and grabbed it at amazon hope this info helps. I think it just has newer boards, nothing fancy to look at just a small black box but it did the job and that's what counts!!! :>)


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## judson_west (Jun 15, 2006)

My HR24 is connected via HDMI (audio/video) to my ES Sony AV receiver. It drops audio with the same frequency as the HR20 it replaced.


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## Mrmiami (Oct 3, 2006)

judson_west said:


> My HR24 is connected via HDMI (audio/video) to my ES Sony AV receiver. It drops audio with the same frequency as the HR20 it replaced.


Just curious but have you tried the Sony website to see if they perhaps have a firmware update available for that receivers inputs? Not sure if that's even possible with the Sony's but worth a shot if so. I assume you've tried other HDMI cables also, if not you could try that too.


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## videojanitor (Oct 8, 2006)

Mrmiami said:


> Absolutely, just wasn't sure if there was an interest but it made by VeiwHD and grabbed it at amazon hope this info helps. I think it just has newer boards, nothing fancy to look at just a small black box but it did the job and that's what counts!!! :>)


Thanks for the report! I'd be interested to know if anyone has tried running an HR24 through the Monoprice 1x2 Pro Series splitter (item #4921)? That's what I'm using, but don't have an HR24 to test it.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

I was looking at *Mrmiami's *ViewHD 2-1 splitter on Amazon, and noticed they even make a 4-1 ($60) and a 4-2 HDMI splitter ($90). Check out what one customer had to say about the 4-2. I never knew a gadget like this existed:

_"I was looking for a simple splitter to keep from having to rent another cable box. I found this via Google and it intrigued me as to the ability to put my BluRay and Set Top Box in, then split or parallel the output to two HD televisions. We have a Family room and a Sun room that are connected except for a small 30 inch partition. We recently purchased another flat screen for the Sun Room. The HDMI Matrix switcher successfully allows me to accomplish the above setup flawlessly. 
Setup: 
Two short 2 foot HDMI Cables from my BluRay and STB to input 1 and 2 respectively. 
One 10 foot HDMI cable to the 42 inch. 
-Sound is connected directly from both sources to a Philips Sound Bar. Could not use the Digital Audio from the television to the amplifier like I used to, but cannot fault the Matrix switcher, as I would have to sometimes switch to an auxillary input with the BluRay.

One 65 foot amplified HDMI Cable to the 32 inch. 
One Microsmith Hot Link XL Cat 5 Extendable IR Booster System 
One Harmony Remote 620

Pro's: 
-Full HDMI 1080P to both Televisions 
-Price ! 
-Can share Cable box, save some $$ 
-No difference in audio/video synch, both televisions can run on the same input at the same time, no echo.

Con's: 
-Instructions are in Chinese, (*labels are in English) no explanation as to what the indicators mean. However, the remote's diagram is self explanatory, so if you get the inputs and outputs plugged in as labeled, no problems." _


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## Robert L (Dec 13, 2005)

Steve said:


> According to someone over at AVSForum: _"That setting only affects RGB over HDMI. Devices that output RGB include PC's and video games consoles. It is greyed out and doesn't have any effect when it's fed YCbCr (from DVDs, blu-ray disc, cable TV etc)."_
> 
> If that's correct, do we know if the HR24 outputs RGB or YCbCr. Perhaps someone has an advanced video processor that can report that information?


I finally got around to getting a HR24, and I don't know if it has been posted elsewhere or if anyone is interested. But the HR20-700 outputs YCbCr444, also shows BT.709 HD standard, 24 bit.

The HR24 outputs RGB and just says video, 24 bit. But I think thats because its RGB.

I don't notice any big difference in video levels but don't have the HDnet test pattern yet. I notice the menu is some sharper on the HR24, but nothing much in actual picture quality. But they do have a little different look, watching on a 110 inch screen.

Don't know why they went to RGB, but I'm sure they has some kind of reason.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Robert L said:


> I finally got around to getting a HR24, and I don't know if it has been posted elsewhere or if anyone is interested. But the HR20-700 outputs YCbCr444, also shows BT.709 HD standard, 24 bit.
> 
> The HR24 outputs RGB and just says video, 24 bit. But I think thats because its RGB.
> 
> ...


FWIW, below are some comparison pixel-level screen grabs from an HR20-700 and an HR24-100, both connected HDMI to a Panny 65S1 1080p display. I used a screen from the 1080i _HDNet Test Pattern_. HR20 is on top in both examples. Contrast and brightness was tweaked by eye for each input.

*These two models look identical to me from a normal viewing distance. YMMV.*

HR20-700









HR24-100









HR20-700









HR24-100


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## reubenray (Jun 27, 2002)

I have had the HR24 for about 2 weeks and it was working with my Monoprice 4x1 switch. But after recording a few 1080p VOD shows the switch will not pass through the 1080p signal. 

For right now I have it hooked up direct to my projector, but the projector only has 2 HDMI inputs and I have a total of 4 pieces of equipment. Two of these work fine with the switch, but the HR24 plus my Panny Blu-ray will not go through the switch. Both of these output 1080p so I am thinking the Monoprice 4x1 switch will not do 1080p even though it says it will.


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## allturbo1 (Sep 27, 2009)

I am also having audio issues on my HR-24. I run it through a HDMI switch all controlled by a Harmony 900. I have figured out that if HR-24 powers on first, then TV, I have no audio issues. If I power TV first and then HR24, I get no audio at all. I obviously have left my set up to power hr24 first. The only problem is when I am watching blueray and switch to watch directv, the audio drop out occurs because tv was left on. This sounds like a handshake issue to me. BTW, watching directv, then switching to watch blueray has no audio issuess at all. This all leads me to believe it's an hr24 problem, not the switch. Also, same exact config. with an hr22 and never had this issue.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Robert L said:


> Don't know why they went to RGB, but I'm sure they has some kind of reason.


The Hx24 uses a different chipset than the HR20 ..


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## reubenray (Jun 27, 2002)

My HR24 will not work with my Monoprice 4x1 or my Belkin AV HDMI switches. Both of these are supposed to pass through 1080p. It was not a problem until now being my new Panny Blur-ray will not work with these switches either. So now I have two pieces out of 4 that will not work through the switch and I only have two HDMI inputs on my projector. For the time being I am swapping out the cables, but I do not want to damage my projector by doing this.

Any suggestions on getting this to work or another switch to get?


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

reubenray said:


> My HR24 will not work with my Monoprice 4x1 or my Belkin AV HDMI switches. Both of these are supposed to pass through 1080p. It was not a problem until now being my new Panny Blur-ray will not work with these switches either. So now I have two pieces out of 4 that will not work through the switch and I only have two HDMI inputs on my projector. For the time being I am swapping out the cables, but I do not want to damage my projector by doing this.
> 
> Any suggestions on getting this to work or another switch to get?


Can you afford a new a/v receiver? That way you use it to pass the video, and you'll get HD audio formats from the new Blu-Ray.


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## reubenray (Jun 27, 2002)

sigma1914 said:


> Can you afford a new a/v receiver? That way you use it to pass the video, and you'll get HD audio formats from the new Blu-Ray.


I really do not want to upgrade to a new a/v receiver just to get the switching capabilties. My current Onkyo receiver is to good to replace just for that reason. I am not using these for audio at all. I have my audio connected via Toslink cables. These switches are only for video.


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## drpjr (Nov 23, 2007)

Steve said:


> I was looking at *Mrmiami's *ViewHD 2-1 splitter on Amazon, and noticed they even make a 4-1 ($60) and a 4-2 HDMI splitter ($90).


The 4x2 looks interesting. It could be a great solution for Mits owners being hamstrung with only one input on the soon to be released 3D converter. I was wondering how I was going to feed a Blu-ray and an HR with only one input to the converter. It would be a great solution for those with limited HDMI ports on their TV. The split or parallel feature is also very cool. Nice find.


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