# MRV and large number of receivers?



## dinotheo (Sep 22, 2006)

Hi all,
I have 10 HR20/21/22/23 receivers. They are all setup to use ethernet MRV. It seems like they can't all see each other. Is there a limit on the number of receivers on 1 system? When I go to Multi-Room\Status each receiver will show between 1-5 other receivers. Is there anything I can try?

Thanks,


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## azarby (Dec 15, 2006)

dinotheo said:


> Hi all,
> I have 10 HR20/21/22/23 receivers. They are all setup to use ethernet MRV. It seems like they can't all see each other. Is there a limit on the number of receivers on 1 system? When I go to Multi-Room\Status each receiver will show between 1-5 other receivers. Is there anything I can try?
> 
> Thanks,


MRV is limited to 16 tuners per cloud. You have 20 tuners. You would need a cloud with a SWiM16 and connect that to your router with a DECA bridge and a seperate (in parallel) SWiM8 cloud also connected to your router with a differnt DECA bridge. This should get you what you need.


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## dinotheo (Sep 22, 2006)

Thanks for the reply. I thought it was 16 receivers (32 tuners). Oh well. I am diplexing OTA onto my 2 switches (soon to be 3.....yes, I am adding more tuners) so I guess DECA is out for me.


Thanks


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## djousma (Jan 22, 2007)

Not sure I agree with azarby. I dont think there is a DECA limit, but I have heard that there is a MRV limit built into the receiver MRV client software, which as you seem to have hit is 5 other receivers.

the 16 tuners per cloud sounds like a limitation due to SWM16, I've heard rumors of a SWM32. As others on this forum have done, when they have >16 tuners, and have to go to multiple SWM switches, then they have multiple "clouds", and segregate tuners by location or intended use(if possible).


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

djousma said:


> *Not sure I agree* with azarby. *I dont think* there is a DECA limit, but I have heard that there is a MRV limit built into the receiver MRV client software, which as you seem to have hit is 5 other receivers.
> 
> the 16 tuners per cloud sounds like a limitation due to SWM16, I've heard rumors of a SWM32. As others on this forum have done, when they have >16 tuners, and have to go to multiple SWM switches, then they have multiple "clouds", and segregate tuners by location or intended use(if possible).


Just so you can be sure and do think:
One DECA cloud has a hard limit of 16 "nodes" [receivers/DECAs]
A SWiM-16 also has a limit of 16 tuners, which could be only eight DVRs and with a broadband DECA, which be nine nodes in the DECA cloud.
The SWiM-32 has no DECA support [like the SWiM-16 does], so the four outputs have no DECA crossover and the whole thing simply works like 4 SWM8s.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

*Device*
|
*Tuners*
|
*SWiM outputs*
|
*DECA devices*
|
*DECA Crossover*

SWiM-LNB|8 total|1|16|no
SWiM-8|8 total|2|16|yes (sorta)
SWiM-16|8/output|2|16|yes
SWiM-32|8/output|4|16/output|no
The SWiM-16 is the only SWiM that has a DECA crossover. This means that the DECA network on one SWiM output can see the DECA network on the other SWiM output. The SWiM-8 outputs are both "connected" and share DECA but there really isn't a crossover per se. All other SWiM devices block DECA at the SWiM output.

Each DECA network can host 16 devices but it is very unlikely that anyone will ever reach this number in any configuration.

The "view" limit on the whole home status list is 5 DVRs

The practical limit on the number of DVRs that can be connected is 10 (might be 11) .. meaning that regardless of how you are connected, you cannot exceed that number because play lists from all receivers will no longer be available.


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## lugnutathome (Apr 13, 2009)

The "Status" option is in fact limited to 5 DVRs in its list BUT when doing a program list do you see programs from DVRs that are not listed in "Status"?

I went through this with my H21 receivers only showing 5 of my 6 DVRs but upon evaluating the list contents all 6 were accounted for. It's just a coding or memory issue on the Status display function.

I see everybody is answering with respect to SWM and DECA here but you are using Ethernet which implies a home switched network and YOU can be a great source of info here!

The SWM/DECA cloud is capped at 16 *TUNERS* by the available hardware at present. SWM units themselves can be cascaded much further out but each becomes its own DECA cloud (if so enhanced).

It would seem logical one could cascade 4 SWM8s off a dish and use a hardwired Ethernet to pass the traffic from it's 32 tuners but I suspect a possible limit of 15 devices (DVR or HD Receiver).The brochures refer up to 16 "receivers" which is impossible as if 1 is a DVR it takes 2 tuners.

If there is a physical limit on number of DVR "receivers" the firmware will process that is <= 10 you should be able to provide that info by your list content after enabling all receivers.

Everybody here is locking in on the tuner count when the issue I see from your question is how many network named devices will the D* firmware recognize and function between?

I've 9 total on my Ethernet based system, 6 are DVRs. Seems I read in another thread where one had 8 DVRs on their network.

Don "I'd guess its all good" Bolton



dinotheo said:


> Hi all,
> I have 10 HR20/21/22/23 receivers. They are all setup to use ethernet MRV. It seems like they can't all see each other. Is there a limit on the number of receivers on 1 system? When I go to Multi-Room\Status each receiver will show between 1-5 other receivers. Is there anything I can try?
> 
> Thanks,


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

lugnutathome said:


> I've 9 total on my Ethernet based system, 6 are DVRs. Seems I read in another thread where one had 8 DVRs on their network.


If we ignore DECA and go strictly on a networking basis for limitations ..

It's 10 DVRs, maybe 11. I'm not sure if it will show 10 remotes or 10 including local and remote. I suspect it's just 10 DVRs period, though.

After that, you could have plenty of receivers all seeing the 10 DVRs on the network. This is a limitation in the firmware and one that even that "I've got a lot of tuners" crowd is having a hard time reaching, so I do not see it as a remotely troublesome limitation.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

The OP states he is Ethernet so DECA doesn't come into play.

So the question is, why can't a DVR on the OPs network see all of the other nine DVRs?

Honestly, I have no idea but hopefully on of the more knowledgeable people can tell us.

Mike


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## lugnutathome (Apr 13, 2009)

Thanks Doug!

It makes perfect sense that they would have a limit in the firmware based on the max 16 tuner vessel they've chosen for DECA. 8 would actually make sense but I suppose someone considered one might be running DVRs in a single tuner mode for some reason and bumped it up to 10.

I also know the frustration the OP was having with the Status display. It was driving me nuts (very short drive) when my H21(s) only showed 5 DVRs after I'd added a sixth. I was running from room to room verifying status and uttering dirty words:nono2: using my outside voice too. This behavior persisted till I ran a list and spotted the one test recording I'd run on the new DVR and it played. :hurah:

Don "if you've more than 10 DVRs, you're not seeing enough daylight" Bolton



Doug Brott said:


> If we ignore DECA and go strictly on a networking basis for limitations ..
> 
> It's 10 DVRs, maybe 11. I'm not sure if it will show 10 remotes or 10 including local and remote. I suspect it's just 10 DVRs period, though.
> 
> After that, you could have plenty of receivers all seeing the 10 DVRs on the network. This is a limitation in the firmware and one that even that "I've got a lot of tuners" crowd is having a hard time reaching, so I do not see it as a remotely troublesome limitation.


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## ciurca (Apr 14, 2009)

Have we refreshed services for all the boxes?


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## dinotheo (Sep 22, 2006)

MicroBeta said:


> The OP states he is Ethernet so DECA doesn't come into play.
> 
> So the question is, why can't a DVR on the OPs network see all of the other nine DVRs?
> 
> ...


Microbeta,
I am not as up to speed on this as my wife. (She is the guru on where everything is recorded). She grew tired of not seeing the recordings on a particular DVR. She resorted to rebooting it and later on she was able to see the recordings from that DVR. She is like a walking database on her recordings. We'll be sitting in the basement and all of a sudden she'll chime in with "Where is such and such program which is in the upstairs family room DVR" 
To play it safe I may turn off MRV on some DVR's. (I have an HR22 at my bar. I can do without that one)

Thanks


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## djousma (Jan 22, 2007)

And thanks to all for educating me as well.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

dinotheo said:


> Microbeta,
> I am not as up to speed on this as my wife. (She is the guru on where everything is recorded). She grew tired of not seeing the recordings on a particular DVR. She resorted to rebooting it and later on she was able to see the recordings from that DVR. She is like a walking database on her recordings. We'll be sitting in the basement and all of a sudden she'll chime in with "Where is such and such program which is in the upstairs family room DVR"
> To play it safe I may turn off MRV on some DVR's. (I have an HR22 at my bar. I can do without that one)
> 
> Thanks


I have a spreadsheet for the two DVRs in the living room. The dang one and two minute overlaps almost require a minimum of three tuners so I need something to keep track of what's where. 

Mike


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## wordethic (Jul 8, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> If we ignore DECA and go strictly on a networking basis for limitations ..
> 
> It's 10 DVRs, maybe 11. I'm not sure if it will show 10 remotes or 10 including local and remote. I suspect it's just 10 DVRs period, though.
> 
> After that, you could have plenty of receivers all seeing the 10 DVRs on the network. This is a limitation in the firmware and one that even that "I've got a lot of tuners" crowd is having a hard time reaching, so I do not see it as a remotely troublesome limitation.


re remotely troublesome limitation: I have 12 DVRs -- how else does one watch/tape all NFL games on Sunday? Although I accept that I am the exception rather than the rule, I do not understand in the slightest why the firmware should limit me to seeing 10 receivers. Every other device on my network that actively looks for other devices can at least see all the others.

Is there an actual technical limitation, or did someone just make an arbitrary decision?


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## azarby (Dec 15, 2006)

wordethic said:


> re remotely troublesome limitation: I have 12 DVRs -- how else does one watch/tape all NFL games on Sunday? Although I accept that I am the exception rather than the rule, I do not understand in the slightest why the firmware should limit me to seeing 10 receivers. Every other device on my network that actively looks for other devices can at least see all the others.
> 
> Is there an actual technical limitation, or did someone just make an arbitrary decision?


MRV has a technical limit due to bandwidth limititations.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

wordethic said:


> re remotely troublesome limitation: I have 12 DVRs -- how else does one watch/tape all NFL games on Sunday? Although I accept that I am the exception rather than the rule, I do not understand in the slightest why the firmware should limit me to seeing 10 receivers. Every other device on my network that actively looks for other devices can at least see all the others.
> 
> Is there an actual technical limitation, or did someone just make an arbitrary decision?


I don't think it's really arbitrary. They had to work within the limitations of the hardware and firmware. Having been involved in these kinds of decisions, I suspect it was seen as a reasonable limitation that would allow the best use of bandwidth and onboard hardware capabilities.

Additionally, if a whole home DVR comes out then the number of DVRs visible technically only needs to be one...assuming that whole home solution has sufficient tuners and storage to replace say 10 DVRs. Ok, I realize 20 tuners and 5TB of space a bit much for one device but you get the picture. 

Mike


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## wordethic (Jul 8, 2007)

I get that DirecTV may want to limit the number of shows going through the MRV pipe at any time. But I still don't see why they need to limit how many DVRs each receiver "sees" at any one time -- isn't that just a variation of ping, which takes msecs?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

wordethic said:


> I get that DirecTV may want to limit the number of shows going through the MRV pipe at any time. But I still don't see why they need to limit how many DVRs each receiver "sees" at any one time -- isn't that just a variation of ping, which takes msecs?


I'd guess you're only looking at part of it. The receivers need to sort through all the recordings and this load may be more than they want to have the receivers deal with right now.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Yeah, and maybe it could go higher, but so far wordethic is actually the first person I've seen that has exceeded the 10 DVR limitation. Can you confirm that some DVRs don't show up on the list? I can't even test this out and am going by what I've been told.


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