# NBA Pass



## scouserut (Mar 11, 2006)

Well, Dish have just delivered their third strike in that they "are still negotiating with the NBA" for the season pass with the first game scheduled for tomorrow. This, after still waiting for Comcast to settle a price with Dish to show The Mountain channel (Utah and BYU games +others) and in Oregon Dish fighting with Comcast for Blazers games.

What an outfit!


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## aaronbud (Nov 3, 2006)

I just found this out after speaking to a CSR. Here is my email to [email protected]:

"Dear Dish Network,

I just called Customer Service to check the status of my auto renewal for NBA League Pass and was informed that you probably will not be offering it any more.

I hope the CSR was just misinformed and that your company is not going to let us lose our NBA package just as you lost baseball. I am a Golden State Warriors fan here in Sacramento, and League Pass is the only way I can get the games. I have been a loyal customer since I paid $500 for my first Dish Network 4000 receiver and dish back in 1997. I believe I was one of your first 500,000 customers. I have upgraded equipment numerous times since then, and have a pretty good investment in your service. I have signed up at least 5 households of family and friends to Dish Network, and they all continue to have your service today. I currently own 2 508 DVR boxes and lease a 622 HDDVR box. I subscribe to top 250w/HD programming package with locals, superstations, and the sports pack in addition to NBA League Pass. I would think I am the type of customer Dish Network would like to keep. I recently signed up for another 2 year commitment with your Free HBO/Starz promotion, however if the NBA goes dark, I will take steps to move to Directv. I really don't want to as, again I love Dish's equipment and service overall.

Thank you for your time,

Aaron Lewis
(email and phone# deleted)"

We'll see what they're answer is.


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## aaronbud (Nov 3, 2006)

Dish website lists games for tomorrow night, but nothing else. Must be day to day.
C'mon Charlie pony up!


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## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

Now they list games for tomorrow night (10/30) but the site still says:


> Check back here next season to order NBA League Pass.


So if they are broadcasting games but not selling the package, who gets the games? Is this a 'free preview" week?


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## Justin23 (Jan 11, 2008)

I believe it is a free preview weekend for League Pass through Nov. 4. Looks like they are also offering new this year the ability to watch the games online as well. Kind of like NFL Sunday Ticket Supercast.

J


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## jclewter79 (Jan 8, 2008)

Have you received a reply from the "[email protected]" people yet?


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## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

E* apparently redesigned their website last night. It looks totally different this morning. In fact, it looks strikingly like the D* website.

I mention this because I can't find any mention of the NBA League Pass anywhere on it now.

Granted the search feature is now broken (produces dead links on every search term I've tried), but that happens with site redesigns.

The "Sports" link at the top of the page brings up a page advertising NHL Center Ice, ESPN Full Court, ESPN Game Plan, and MLS Direct Kick, along with PPV and the Multi-Sport Pack. NO mention of NBA League Pass.


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## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

IT'S OFFICIAL!

Another thread posted a link form E*'s website:


> DISH Network sincerely regrets that NBA League pass is currently unavailable. In the meantime, you can still view your favorite Basketball games on ESPN (CH 140), TNT (CH 138) and your local regional sports channel.
> 
> The loss of NBA League Pass was the result of the NBA's decision to impose unreasonable contract terms on DISH Network to continue to carry their programming package.
> 
> ...


Thanks _siwsiw_ for the link. This page is available from their main site, hover over "Sports" then "ESPN Full Court".


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## Steve615 (Feb 5, 2006)

Here is the League Pass page on the NBA's official site.

http://www.nba.com/leaguepass/tv.html

According to that page,it is available via DirecTV,DISH Network and Cable/In Demand PPV.


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## siwsiw (Aug 15, 2007)

Steve615 said:


> Here is the League Pass page on the NBA's official site.
> 
> http://www.nba.com/leaguepass/tv.html
> 
> According to that page,it is available via DirecTV,DISH Network and Cable/In Demand PPV.


I believe, this is just to apply pressure on Dishnetwork from its customers. It does not mean anything if Dish says it is not avaialble. 
Actually They do now, since it's just a free preview until 11/4


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## spunkyvision (Oct 12, 2006)

> The loss of NBA League Pass was the result of the NBA's decision to impose unreasonable contract terms on DISH Network to continue to carry their programming package.


What does this "mean"? It's not like they were giving it you for free. I am glad DTV is not having this problem.


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## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

spunkyvision said:


> > The loss of NBA League Pass was the result of the NBA's decision to impose unreasonable contract terms on DISH Network to continue to carry their programming package.
> 
> 
> What does this "mean"? It's not like they were giving it you for free. I am glad DTV is not having this problem.


That phrase could mean just about anything. I'm sure they aren't spelling out the exact details due to the contract dispute, but it could mean that:

the NBA wants too much money (but D* and InDemand are both carrying it at the same price as last year, so this is probably not likely),
E* wanted to pay less than the NBA was asking (possible, knowing Charlie's attitude toward paying for stuff),
maybe the NBA wanted NBA TV available to more customers (it was only in AT250). Both D* and lots of cable companies offer it in an a la carte Sports Pack that anyone, even with a smaller package, can add in order to get NBA TV. Notice that NBATV was also dropped from E*'s lineup recently (I believe at the same time as the League Pass). Maybe they wanted treatment like the NFL Network, available in AT200.

Could be lots of things, but as anyone who has followed E* for a couple years knows, Charlie isn't afraid of pissing off his customers to save a buck (MLB, Lifetime, the whole Viacom/CBS "Dish Network left you high and dry without SpongeBob" mess, etc).

It appears that he is basically ceding the whole American professional sports situation to D*. Now D* is the only satellite provider with NFL, MLB, and NBA games. This leaves E* with hockey, soccer, college football & college basketball. While popular in their own right, these sports don't compare in national popularity to NFL, MLB, and NBA.


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## FTA Michael (Jul 21, 2002)

Some package providers impose minimum system royalty rates, as in "Dish must pay for at least X League Pass subscriptions whether they can get that many subscribers to bite on it or not."

If it was the old system of a straight percentage per sub, then yeah, I can't think of any reason Dish wouldn't do that.

Edit: Kheldar makes a good point; this might have something to do with NBA TV.


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## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

D* also includes NBA TV with the NBA League Pass subscription. Did E* do that last season?


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## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

The Basketball page (http://www.dishnetwork.com/packages/ppv/sports/basketball/default.aspx) has been updated:


> NBA LEAGUE PASS on DISH Network Season Ticket - Channels 560 - 572
> 
> NBA LEAGUE PASS brings you maximum coverage of your favorite NBA action with up to 40 regular season games a week not otherwise available in your local area. Plus your subscription includes NBA LEAGUE PASS Broadband, NBA LEAGUE PASS Stats Central, NBA TV, and select games in high definition.
> 
> Check back here next season to order NBA League Pass.


And contains a link to a game schedule for the next couple days (thru 11/2).

Looks like they might be working things out.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I'm always surprised (guess I shouldn't be) at how people will chastise Dish/Charlie for trying to get a better deal on programming for his company... when those same people will threaten to switch to cable or DirecTV if Dish doesn't give them a better deal on something.

Forgetting for a moment what your or my favorite channel is, and how it affects us personally if our favorite channel is dropped over a dispute... I just don't "get" why people are surprised or mad as if threatening to leave isn't exactly what they do as customers to try and save a buck, so why wouldn't Dish do the same?


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

HDMe said:


> I'm always surprised (guess I shouldn't be) at how people will chastise Dish/Charlie for trying to get a better deal on programming for his company... when those same people will threaten to switch to cable or DirecTV if Dish doesn't give them a better deal on something.


I could see your argument if this would result in a lower price for NBA League Pass for Dish customer vs. the other providers that carry it. But if past history is anything the price that Dish charges will be exactly the same as what DirecTV and cable charges for the package.


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## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

RAD said:


> I could see your argument if this would result in a lower price for NBA League Pass for Dish customer vs. the other providers that carry it. But if past history is anything the price that Dish charges will be exactly the same as what DirecTV and cable charges for the package.


I have yet to see _any_ provider offer a lower price for _any_ sports package than the competing companies that also offer it. With every sports package, the pricing seems to be the same regardless of which provider you have. This would suggest that the end price for consumers is part of the contract.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

RAD said:


> I could see your argument if this would result in a lower price for NBA League Pass for Dish customer vs. the other providers that carry it. But if past history is anything the price that Dish charges will be exactly the same as what DirecTV and cable charges for the package.


Agreed... but consumers often expect companies to always "pass the savings along" and yet we as consumers do not do the same to our employers. Do we volunteer for a pay cut when our employer keeps us at work for 5 years? As we get better at our jobs and are able to perform more efficiently do we give our employers a discount? Or do we instead as for a raise?

I'm not purely a Dish defender, so don't get me wrong... but if the company doesn't seek to increase its profits where it can, then the company doesn't grow. Dish getting a better deal now with NBA League Pass might mean they have more money to throw at FOX for their channels... just as an example of two things at an empasse apparently right now negotiating-wise.

As consumers we seek to pinch pennies and don't give those pennies away... so why would a company (made of of consumers itself) behave differently?


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## jclewter79 (Jan 8, 2008)

Directv has to make their other non sports packages more expensive to help subsidize the high prices of the sports they carry. So, if you don't actually get a discount on your sports package from E* holding out for a better deal, you may very well be getting it on you basic package.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

HDMe said:


> Agreed... but consumers often expect companies to always "pass the savings along" and yet we as consumers do not do the same to our employers. Do we volunteer for a pay cut when our employer keeps us at work for 5 years? As we get better at our jobs and are able to perform more efficiently do we give our employers a discount? Or do we instead as for a raise?
> 
> I'm not purely a Dish defender, so don't get me wrong... but if the company doesn't seek to increase its profits where it can, then the company doesn't grow. Dish getting a better deal now with NBA League Pass might mean they have more money to throw at FOX for their channels... just as an example of two things at an empasse apparently right now negotiating-wise.
> 
> As consumers we seek to pinch pennies and don't give those pennies away... so why would a company (made of of consumers itself) behave differently?





jclewter79 said:


> Directv has to make their other non sports packages more expensive to help subsidize the high prices of the sports they carry. So, if you don't actually get a discount on your sports package from E* holding out for a better deal, you may very well be getting it on you basic package.


HDMe, I agree with your point but it's the way Dish always makes it sound like they continue to have these disputes all in the way of saving their customers money. And this way of doing business appears to not be growing the company since Dish has been loosing customers and last quarter had a net loss of customers. It will be interesting to see this month how Dish and DirecTV do with their numbers.

jclewter, there are some packages that are cheaper on Dish and others that are cheaper on DirecTV, when you take into aco**** all the addional fees that get tacked on. I know I looked at the numbers for what I have with D* vs. E* and E* is more expensive.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

RAD said:


> I know I looked at the numbers for what I have with D* vs. E* and E* is more expensive.


Not surprising given that you have four HD DVRs and five HDTVs.

The fact remains that the programming pricing is higher with D*.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

RAD said:


> HDMe, I agree with your point but it's the way Dish always makes it sound like they continue to have these disputes all in the way of saving their customers money. And this way of doing business appears to not be growing the company since Dish has been loosing customers and last quarter had a net loss of customers. It will be interesting to see this month how Dish and DirecTV do with their numbers.


I do agree with you there... Companies saying "we are trying to keep low prices for our customers" is a lot like when people say "do it for the children" or some other platitude to appease people rather than answer the question.

I admit that it would just be better for Dish to say "we are seeking better contracts with..." and stop there without even saying anything at all about trying to keep low prices for their customers. They could do that in a completely different marketing or advertising situation... but the negotiation talk should just be negotiation talk and end it there.

I'm in the camp that understands and appreciates what Dish is doing when they negotiate... so I'm not bothered, but I do shake my head when I hear "it's all for you" as the reason.


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## puckwithahalo (Sep 3, 2007)

> HDMe, I agree with your point but it's the way Dish always makes it sound like they continue to have these disputes all in the way of saving their customers money.





> I do agree with you there... Companies saying "we are trying to keep low prices for our customers" is a lot like when people say "do it for the children" or some other platitude to appease people rather than answer the question.


E* does consistently have the lowest annual increases in the industry.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

puckwithahalo said:


> E* does consistently have the lowest annual increases in the industry.


I was trying to find what the 2008 increases were, found http://www.satelliteguys.us/1191114-post1.html for DirecTV and http://www.satelliteguys.us/attachment.php?attachmentid=20822&d=1198292526 for Dish.

Except for the AT200 and AT250 package which had a $2.00 increase vs. $3.00 for DirecTV Plus looks like all the other packages had the same amount of price increase. Does that make it worth it to have a provide that always is fighting to keep their rates down by dropping programming channels/packages that people who signed contracts expected would continue to be available?


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

harsh said:


> The fact remains that the programming pricing is higher with D*.


True for the most part. But only by a couple bucks. Charlie isn't saving people all that much. :hurah:

I guess Dish is down to just Center Ice now. I guess most sports subs will now just give up on Dish all together. And Charlie wonders why sub growth is flat and negative over the past year.


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## aaronbud (Nov 3, 2006)

jclewter79 said:


> Have you received a reply from the "[email protected]" people yet?


nothing. gotta love 'em.


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