# Recent increase in compression on spot beam SD channels ONLY? My signal is perfect!



## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

I noticed over the past two weeks or three that the SD spot beam channels (locals) have an increased amount of pixelization compared to just a month ago. It is definitely noticable when there is significant movement . All the locals are demonstrating this effect. My signal is good and the conus channels look pretty much the same as always, which is ok.

I am wondering if D* had increased the compression on spot beam channels to increase their offerings of more locals in other areas?

I didn't even bother to call D* "customer NO service since I doubt that I would get an honest answer in any case. 

Anyone else notice a increase in the amount of compression (pixelization) on their locals?

Bill


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

dubber deux said:


> I noticed over the past two weeks or three that the SD spot beam channels (locals) have an increased amount of pixelization compared to just a month ago. It is definitely noticable when there is significant movement . All the locals are demonstrating this effect. My signal is good and the conus channels look pretty much the same as always, which is ok.
> 
> I am wondering if D* had increased the compression on spot beam channels to increase their offerings of more locals in other areas?
> 
> ...


Nope, haven't seen any issues.

As far as compressing more to offer other locals. I doubt it.

Most if not all recent additions have been on 99/103. I can't recall the last time additional locals were added to the 101.


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

My spot beam is the Greenville, SC market for reference.

I can't be a signal issue because it is good, never flucuates too much.

Conus channels are no problem.

The interesting thing is that just prior to when I noticed this my locals had EXCELLENT quality (apparently very little compression) compared to the conus channels.

My guess is that it's just D* lowering the bar on quality again.

I doubt I'll stay with them after my contract is up. While the service isn't terrible once I start paying the regular price it won't be worth it due to the very average quality..


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

DirecTv (even Dish for that matter) is not going to crank up the compression just for the hell of it.

Maybe something else is going on at the uplink or somewhere else along the chain.


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

Thanks for your insight Robert.

You know IF D* would actually be willing to be HONEST about various shifts in quality and explain it when you called them at customer service I would at least be understanding of it, but when they always refuse to be frank about such issues it just infurates me. 

If anyone monitoring this thread from D* has the lo down I'd be happy to hear an honest explanation .


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

I don't know why anyone ever expects a front line CSR to know anything about the fine details of any operation. Anyone who does know is not going to be talking to customers.

It would be like going to your local gas station and asking the clerk about the exact formulation used during the refining process. All your going to get is blank stares and


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Maybe your local stations are affecting the quality?


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

RobertE said:


> I don't know why anyone ever expects a front line CSR to know anything about the fine details of any operation. Anyone who does know is not going to be talking to customers.
> 
> It would be like going to your local gas station and asking the clerk about the exact formulation used during the refining process. All your going to get is blank stares and


Maybe the first line CSRs won't know , BUT then they should have the ability to transfer you DIRECTLY to someone that DOES know!

Obviously when I request that they put me in touch with the headend after describing the problem or issue it is pretty clear that I may have a legit reason to communicate with broadcast center.

Sorry Robert but I'm hearing more excuses from you, it sounds like D* all over again.

SIGMA:

I have noticed that ALL the locals have an equal amount of increase in pixelization (compression) at the same time. Hard to believe that eight different stations all decided to change something at their end at the very same time.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

dubber deux said:


> Maybe the first line CSRs won't know , BUT then they should have the ability to transfer you DIRECTLY to someone that DOES know!
> 
> Obviously when I request that they put me in touch with the headend after describing the problem or issue it is pretty clear that I may have a legit reason to communicate with broadcast center.
> 
> ...


Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. I wouldn't give any of the CSRs the ability to transfer calls to the NOC. No way, no how. The people at the core of the operation have much better things to do than to talk to customers. Just not going to happen.


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

RobertE said:


> I don't know why anyone ever expects a front line CSR to know anything about the fine details of any operation. Anyone who does know is not going to be talking to customers.


Or like asking the sales manager at the local car dealer about FM radio adjacent signal rejection specs on the factory stereo.

No TV provider is going to have front-line CSRs who are informed or authorized to discuss things like compression rate variations, any more than the person working the Drive-Thru window at Taco Bell is going to be able to tell you what types of fertilizer were used to grow the onions used in the hot sauce. There may be ways to find out about that information, but expecting to get it with a front-door approach is woefully unrealistic. And in this case, it's very likely that DirecTV will consider that proprietary information that they don't intend to share publically.


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

RobertE said:


> Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. I wouldn't give any of the CSRs the ability to transfer calls to the NOC. No way, no how. The people at the core of the operation have much better things to do than to talk to customers. Just not going to happen.


I have personally e mailed several of the managers at Broadcast Center in Co and not once have the courtesy to respond AT ALL!!!!! My e mail to them was fairly brief and to the point, technically sound, and very polite as well.

I have sent similar communications to local broadcast stations and have received very reasonable replies usually with an issue being resolved due to my description of the problem at their site. There is no excuse for not replying to the legit concern of a PAYING customer, NONE.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

dubber deux said:


> I have personally e mailed several of the managers at Broadcast Center in Co and not once have the courtesy to respond AT ALL!!!!! My e mail to them was fairly brief and to the point, technically sound, and very polite as well.
> 
> I have sent similar communications to local broadcast stations and have received very reasonable replies usually with an issue being resolved due to my description of the problem at their site. There is no excuse for not replying to the legit concern of a PAYING customer, NONE.


Sorry to say, but I bet there's a better than average chance that no one read your complete email. As so as someone got far enough to see "yet another self proclaimed expert" it went straight to the digital recycle bin.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

dubber deux said:


> I have personally e mailed several of the managers at Broadcast Center in Co and not once have the courtesy to respond AT ALL!!!!! My e mail to them was fairly brief and to the point, technically sound, and very polite as well.
> 
> I have sent similar communications to local broadcast stations and have received very reasonable replies usually with an issue being resolved due to my description of the problem at their site. There is no excuse for not replying to the legit concern of a PAYING customer, NONE.


Uh, I would imagine that they aren't even ALLOWED to communicate with you by replying to your email in any way, even if they did read it in full.. I would never allow that kind of information out if I where in charge.. Company proprietary secrets. Period. You may disagree with that, but the reality is, anything said by an engineer that could be in any way construed badly by a competitor in a marketing plan would be used, no hesitation, and there is no way they7 are going to spend the time to verify who you are, etc....


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

RobertE said:


> Sorry to say, but I bet there's a better than average chance that no one read your complete email. As so as someone got far enough to see "yet another self proclaimed expert" it went straight to the digital recycle bin.


Bullocks about D* management not being able to reply to my e mails. Sure I don't expect them to devulge propirtary information, BUT there is NO reason NOT to say that they will look into my concerns and take any necessary action if there are changes needed. That's all they have to do. Not replying AT ALL is inexcusiable. Period.

If they did take the time to actually read the brief technically SOUND e mail and the person READING it was technically QUALIFIED to understand what I was relating to them I doubt they would not bother to look further into it.

I have some broadcast engineering background, AND I have actually WORKED in the MC of a major market NBC affiliate as well. Not to mention that as I replied above I HAVE received responses from OTA station engineers about certain issues at their operations and have not only received replies but also they have actually ADDRESSED the issues and resolved them!!!!!!

If some of these posters reflect the attitude of D* management it is no surprise about D* not caring about LEGIT concerns of their paying subscribers.


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## mlyles (Sep 19, 2006)

I'm also in the Greenville market and I've noticed it too. It's been a long time since it was this bad.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

dubber deux said:


> Bullocks about D* management not being able to reply to my e mails. Sure I don't expect them to devulge propirtary information, BUT there is NO reason NOT to say that they will look into my concerns and take any necessary action if there are changes needed. That's all they have to do. Not replying AT ALL is inexcusiable. Period.
> 
> If they did take the time to actually read the brief technically SOUND e mail and the person READING it was technically QUALIFIED to understand what I was relating to them I doubt they would not bother to look further into it.
> 
> ...


:icon_stup:kickbutt:


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

mlyles said:


> I'm also in the Greenville market and I've noticed it too. It's been a long time since it was this bad.


*BINGO!*

Thank you mlyles!

So Robert, WHY would a OTA station engineer (major NBC or Fox Affiliate) care MORE about the viewers concerns than D*!??!?!?

I wouldn't expect too much from the OTA since I don't really PAY them directly, but as a paying customer with D* I expect some consideration and repeatedly there is NONE. This doesn't just apply to me but many other subs as well.

Evenually contempt for the customer results in a business that DIES!


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

So, all you want is someone to say, "We'll look into it," right?


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

dubber deux said:


> I have personally e mailed several of the managers at Broadcast Center in Co and not once have the courtesy to respond AT ALL!!!!! My e mail to them was fairly brief and to the point, technically sound, and very polite as well.
> 
> I have sent similar communications to local broadcast stations and have received very reasonable replies usually with an issue being resolved due to my description of the problem at their site. There is no excuse for not replying to the legit concern of a PAYING customer, NONE.


You're barking up the wrong tree (again). First you went to the front line CSRs about some crap no one cared about and screamed about how they didn't care and now you're procuring engineer's email addresses (God knows how) and spamming them with your issues. I'm sure they love getting unsolicited email from a stalker.

It's become apparent you're not going to be pleased with DirecTV. Just go get cable and be done with it. :nono2:


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

sigma1914 said:


> So, all you want is someone to say, "We'll look into it," right?


That someone should be a "QUALIFIED" someone.

If an OTA affiliate engineer can do this WHY can't D*?!?!?!?! I'd bet they are "busy" too, but they still seem to find the time to investigate possible issues that affect PQ.

Just like the OTA engineer ..If they state they are looking into it, or are working to improve the quality that would be sufficient.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

The check is in the mail.


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

tcusta00 said:


> You're barking up the wrong tree (again). First you went to the front line CSRs about some crap no one cared about and screamed about how they didn't care and now you're procuring engineer's email addresses (God knows how) and spamming them with your issues. I'm sure they love getting unsolicited email from a stalker.


Lets get this RIGHT!

I sent several e mails to various BC engineers, that is all. No repetition, no stalking!  Very polite, businesslike communication! 


> It's become apparent you're not going to be pleased with DirecTV. Just go get cable and be done with it. :nono2:


Unlike some I honor my contractural obligations...I still have 18 months to go.


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

get hd, then they might care.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

dubber deux said:


> Lets get this RIGHT!
> 
> I sent several e mails to various BC engineers, that is all. No repetition, no stalking!  Very polite, businesslike communication!


Yeah, cause they have published emails meant for this. 



dubber deux said:


> Unlike some I honor my contractural obligations...I still have 18 months to go.


I'll be counting the months.


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

RobertE said:


> The check is in the mail.


Do tell!!

You're going to send me the 400$ (approx) for the ETF!?!?!?!?

Make that a cashiers check please!


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

dubber deux said:


> Do tell!!
> 
> You're going to send me the 400$ (approx) for the ETF!?!?!?!?


ZOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooommmmmmmmmmm


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

dubber deux said:


> Unlike some I honor my contractural obligations...I still have 18 months to go.


Good luck in you're continued emails and CSR Level 1 chats for 18 more months, which IMO, is a waste of time.


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

*Just a warning to potential subscribers. D* doesn't care about the legitimate concerns of their PAYING customers*
:eek2:
You can bet that the responses of some of the posters above reflect the attitude of D* management as well. :nono:

BUYER BEWARE!!


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Maybe satracer could "try" and appease this guy.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

sigma1914 said:


> Maybe REDACTED could "try" and appease this guy.


Please don't bring him into this mess. We like him.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

dubber deux said:


> *Just a warning to potential subscribers. D* doesn't care about the legitimate concerns of their PAYING customers*
> :eek2:
> You can bet that the responses of some of the posters above reflect the attitude of D* management as well. :nono:
> 
> BUYER BEWARE!!


Why? Because you can't contact a high level engineer? Riiiight.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

tcusta00 said:


> Please don't bring him into this mess. We like him.


My bad...He'd probably drive good ol' SR away.


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

dubber deux said:


> *Just a warning to potential subscribers. D* doesn't care about the legitimate concerns of their PAYING customers*
> :eek2:
> You can bet that the responses of some of the posters above reflect the attitude of D* management as well. :nono:
> 
> BUYER BEWARE!!


hard to tell the difference ain't it


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

sigma1914 said:


> Maybe satracer could "try" and appease this guy.


To reiterate for those who don't want to look too far back in this thread...

I have had several OTA station engineers respond to my e mails concerning issues at their operation, and not only were they honest enough to admit that there were some issues, but actually took the time to resolve them or at least indicate that they were working on them and would resolve them soon. Which actually happened! Yet D* engineering staff are too busy to be bothered with the concerns of their paying customers...


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

sigma1914 said:


> Why? Because you can't contact a high level engineer? Riiiight.


You bet....!

If a busy OTA engineer can take a few minutes out of his day to give a brief reply and look into a potential site issue than surely the massive D* staff could!

I call Boulderdash!!!!!!


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

There's no appeasing you...we're done here, well, I am.


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

sigma1914 said:


> There's no appeasing you...we're done here, well, I am.


BS doesn't cut it with the educated consumer...does it? :eek2:

The sorry part is that if they were doing their job taking care of the customer at D*, I probably would be upgrading to HD sometime in the near future instead of dropping D* all together. It is true though that you can BS most customers most of the time thesedays.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

dubber deux said:


> BS doesn't cut it with the educated consumer...does it? :eek2:


Yet that's exactly what you're looking for. 


dubber deux said:


> If they state they are looking into it, or are working to improve the quality that would be sufficient.


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

guess I'm lucky, the one time I needed it engineering called me.


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

David MacLeod said:


> guess I'm lucky, the one time I needed it engineering called me.


David,

Was that specific issue actually at YOUR end or THEIR end?


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

mlyles said:


> I'm also in the Greenville market and I've noticed it too. It's been a long time since it (compression on spot beams) was this bad.


Quote for backing up confirmation of customer concern!


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

dubber deux said:


> David,
> 
> Was that specific issue actually at YOUR end or THEIR end?


their end with database entry.


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## Taltizer (Sep 26, 2007)

Send an email with your complaints here you may get better response and help.
http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/global/contentPageIFnorail.jsp?assetId=P4960016#h:694.204


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

David MacLeod said:


> their end with database entry.


Well I'm VERY pleased to know that they seemed to give a darn in your case, David.

There probably are a few dedicated engineering folks at D* that care about the customer, but it is obviously too few!


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

they were very accommodating and verified I was going to be available before the 40 minute conference call.


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

Taltizer said:


> Send an email with your complaints here you may get better response and help.
> http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/global/contentPageIFnorail.jsp?assetId=P4960016#h:694.204


Thanks for the suggestion Taltizer.

I tried this and received a call from "some CSR" who hadn't a clue about what I was talking about. That said she was polite, but curt as well. She seemed uncomfortable with a mildly technical discussion.


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## RogueWing16 (Aug 25, 2009)

While watching the football games on the local channels today (Bel Air, MD), I saw a fair amount of pixelation. This is the first weekend I really noticed it. Noticed it enough to make me research the forum. Not sure what is going on with the channels.:eek2:


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

For reference I have used my ECEB SD box and my OTA antenna to compare locals and the D* quality is across the board on all locals much more compressed than that of my ECEB as of the past two weeks or so. Before that the quality was almost the same. Something IS different.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

You're trolling the forums for something you're not going to find, dubber. You've stated in this thread that all you're looking for is acknowledgment of the issue and you'll shut up about it, but CLEARLY this isn't the case since your last "issue" proved otherwise:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2094653#post2094653


dubber deux said:


> Just put a call into Jessica at the Customer Advocate Team office. She was professional and pleasant. She stated that she did review my e mail and forwarded the information to LABC Broadcast Operations Center. She did mention that she personally viewed the channels I mentioned and claims that she noticed no problems, but then again we are pretty picky here and also have very good eyes for a quality picture. She didn't specifically state that she had viewed HD or SD but I am assuming she was talking about the SD pic as I mentioned in the e mail.
> 
> I know that there are issues at some place in the feed pipeline and others here have confirmed what I am seeing about the channels. I have a perfectly calibrated SD TV and I took the set to various places and connected to several providers and indeed at least with my D* SD there is definitely some issues. Especially with C SPAN 2, QVC, and Chiller, the others are less noticable yet with a good eye you can clearly see some kind of defect with levels.
> 
> At least she replied in a timely manner and was pleasant about it. Hopefully I will hear from someone at LABC BOC, if not, I will find a way to directly contact them. I really wanted to go through the "chain of command" and give them every opportunity to rectify this in their own way since they do have some sort of system for resolving special issues.


It's not getting fixed. I'm sure DirecTV will let you out of the contract if you tell them who you are and how much of their time you've been wasting over the past months, especially by spamming their engineers.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

RogueWing16 said:


> While watching the football games on the local channels today (Bel Air, MD), I saw a fair amount of pixelation. This is the first weekend I really noticed it. Noticed it enough to make me research the forum. Not sure what is going on with the channels.:eek2:


I watched on the same locals and noticed none. Have you checked your alignment?


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

dubber deux said:


> That someone should be a "QUALIFIED" someone.
> 
> .


That CSR is NOT a QUALIFIED person!


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Customers are to contact Customer Service, not Engineering.
I've been in contact with both my local station engineering and by following the steps/levels in customer service, had engineers come out to my house. I've even had the phone passed to me and talked directly to a network broadcast center engineer/manager.
Did I get his phone number? 
Not a chance. There is a protocol required.

Local stations have a vested interest in their signal, so their engineering may be more responsive to emails. For me, some have and some haven't.
Problems with my locals get addressed by emailing my locals. I do this even if the problem doesn't turn out to be on their end as they do have the phone numbers to contact at DirecTV.

Here is a thread [actually the second] about what & how for problems with the HD spots; http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=161262


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

tcusta00 said:


> You've stated in this thread that all you're looking for is acknowledgment of the issue and you'll shut up about it, b.


BY A QUALIFIED indivdual!

We now have THREE subscribers that are indicating the same issue recently noticed.

Unless your signal is poor or is fluctuating greatly it wouldn't explain the problem of compression changes. You most likely have picture dropouts...this is different.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

dubber deux said:


> BY A QUALIFIED indivdual!
> 
> We now have THREE subscribers that are indicating the same issue recently noticed.
> 
> Unless your signal is poor or is fluctuating greatly it wouldn't explain the problem of compression changes. You most likely have picture dropouts...this is different.


You're clearly delusional. *One *person in your market agreed with you in this thread. The person from Bel Air, MD (the same DMA as I'm in) said he saw pixelation. What you're reporting is not pixelation, and further, I didn't see any pixelation and I've been on the same exact channel as him all afternoon watching football. His problem is likely something in his setup and I'd be glad to help him if he reports back.

Good luck. I don't think this forum can provide the type of help you need.


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

veryoldschool said:


> Customers are to contact Customer Service, not Engineering.
> I've been in contact with both my local station engineering and by following the steps/levels in customer service, had engineers come out to my house. I've even had the phone passed to me and talked directly to a network broadcast center engineer/manager.
> Did I get his phone number?
> Not a chance. There is a protocol required.
> ...


Old...

That is the thing I did whatever I could to use chain of command to sort things out yet it clearly didn't work. I politely asked the CSR to have someone responsible in engineering at BC to E MAIL me about the issue since the CSR couldn't actually understand what I was explaining to her, it is possible that she did understand and simply was told to "blow me off" by upper management since while polite I could tell that she couldn't wait to get off the phone with me, even though I was as polite possible and effective as I could be discussing a technical issue with someone that clearly wan not able to understand me on the issue.


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## RogueWing16 (Aug 25, 2009)

tcusta00 said:


> I watched on the same locals and noticed none. Have you checked your alignment?


I haven't checked the alignment.

I only started noticing pixelation during the games today and some college games yesterday. The games all happened to be on my locals. Other shows on my DVR seem to look fine.

Anyway, counting down the weeks before I upgrade to a flat panel and get HD.


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

tcusta00 said:


> The person from Bel Air, MD (the same DMA as I'm in) said he saw pixelation.
> 
> .


Pixelization CAN result from EXCESSIVE digital picture compression.

You can check your spot beam signal levels but I'd bet they're fine.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

dubber deux said:


> Old...
> 
> That is the thing I did whatever I could to use chain of command to sort things out yet it clearly didn't work. I politely asked the CSR to have someone responsible in engineering at BC to E MAIL me about the issue since the CSR couldn't actually understand what I was explaining to her, it is possible that she did understand and simply was told to "blow me off" by upper management since while polite I could tell that she couldn't wait to get off the phone with me, even though I was as polite possible and effective as I could be discussing a technical issue with someone that clearly wan not able to understand me on the issue.


Then you have "her" send an email to the broadcast center. The broadcast center WILL NOT email you back.

DirecTV has somewhere around 16 million customers and 99% of the time "problems" are on their end. For the 1% that aren't on the customer's end, how many customers are actually technically knowledgeable?
For the few [like me] that are, "the numbers" don't work to have engineering contact us directly, as they have their jobs to do and that isn't talking to customers.
Now if you do go through the customer service steps, as I did, and remove anything on your end as the cause, then you do [or I did] get to talk to someone that does know the problem and will explain it and why.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

dubber deux said:


> Pixelization CAN result from EXCESSIVE digital picture compression.


While this is true, it's not the only thing.
You'd need to understand a lot more about how the signals are processed and uplinked to get an idea of how complex the process is.


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

veryoldschool said:


> Then you have "her" send an email to the broadcast center. The broadcast center WILL NOT email you back.


This much is true.



> Now if you do go through the customer service steps, as I did, and remove anything on your end as the cause, then you do [or I did] get to talk to someone that does know the problem and will explain it and why.


I did this as well.

The most important part is that many others also reported this very issue as well regarding the previous issue I posted about. Actually I had one poster actually post a pic of a luminance level scope reading on a thread here for conformation of the problem with one specific channel. It was proof positive, actually and that one channel did have the problem resolved. (C-SPAN 2) The rest remain unchanged.


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

veryoldschool said:


> While this is true, it's not the only thing.
> You'd need to understand a lot more about how the signals are processed and uplinked to get an idea of how complex the process is.


Like I stated above. It CAN result in pixelization. I'm not saying that it is the ONLY reason.

While I don't claim to have the amount of background as does a degreed qualified engineer, I do understand the differences.

In any case D* should change their policy regarding how they respond to technical issues when a customer can communicate a potentially problematic issue at their end.

There is no reason why someone in BC management can't respond. Especially if you have already tried the customer NO service route!


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

dubber deux said:


> In any case D* should change their policy regarding how they respond to technical issues when a customer can communicate a potentially problematic issue at their end.
> 
> There is no reason why someone in BC management can't respond. Especially if you have already tried the customer NO service route!


While I do understand "your position", I can't say that I would agree with it.
Engineering is hired for "doing a job", and that isn't talking/email customers.
Customer service is there for that, and if you can work with them, you can get the attention you're asking for, as I did.
"Would it be nice to be able to talk directly to the engineers"? Sure, but since so few could actually "talk on their level", it isn't surprising that DirecTV doesn't give out their phone number.
How many other companies give you a direct line to their engineers?


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

Old..

I'm not indicating that they should give out their engineering number openly, but if the CSRs on the second tier can't help and don't understand the technical nature of a subscribers problem then there seems to be no reason why they couldn't put you in touch with a manager in engineering perhaps. Of course I have no issue with communicating by e mail in this case. I DO think that I should have received a confirmation via e mail that the info was received by the people in BC that could make the best use of it.

I don't believe that the CSR from the office of the president I spoke to about the previous issue ever relayed the information I supplied her with to engineering because she had NO technical understanding of the matter. She probably used her own judgement as to whether or not the information should be forwarded.

Thanks oldschool for being civil in thread, its obvious that some clearly don't understand how to behave here.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

dubber deux said:


> I truly don't believe that the CSR from the office of the president I spoke to about the previous issue ever relayed the information I supplied her with to engineering.


I do know how difficult it can be.
"For me", I had to be fairly "diplomatic" with them as I pushed my issue.
You need to understand:


most of the time your questions aren't in their understanding
you need to layout your situation well enough for them to understand.
Most of the time they do want to help, but when you're dealing with things on this level, you really need to "lay it all out for them", so they can then "champion your cause".
In my case, I'd explained how the OTA signal didn't have the problem & that it was happening on several locals during the same evening. Also this had been going on for some time.
First "report" they gave was that the broadcast center had monitored my locals and didn't see the problem. Then it turned out they'd only done this for 20 min.
I had to explain that this wasn't long enough to see it.
You really need to "play the game" and have a civil/reasonable response to each of the "answers".
Even with this, the first "major step" was to have someone come out and check out my system.
As everyone agreed: "You need to start somewhere" [if only to know where the problem isn't].
I don't say it's easy, but there are ways.
"Frankly" it's easier to contact your local station and have them go through these hoops. They also have a interest in how well their signal is getting to you as a DirecTV customer.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

dubber deux said:


> Old..
> 
> I'm not indicating that they should give out their engineering number openly, but if the CSRs on the second tier can't help and don't understand the technical nature of a subscribers problem then there seems to be no reason why they couldn't put you in touch with a manager in engineering perhaps.


I've read this entire thread, and I would like to add a comment or two.

First, DirecTV has something in the neighborhood of 18 million customers. In any given DMA/Market, they probably have tens of thousands or more. The customer service system is set up to handle that volume of customers, and they track complaints. When enough complaints are received to be statistically valid, the issue gets elevated. There is absolutely no way you, or anyone else, is ever going to get transferred to anyone in engineering or management - which are not organized or staffed to deal with customer calls. This does NOT mean that DirecTV does not care about you or the quality of their service. They do care. In fact, if engineering had to talk with every customer that complained, it would have a very detrimental effect on the quality of everyone's service because they wouldn't have time to do their job.

Second, DirecTV has many systems in place to track the operation of all their backhauls and uplinks. In most cases, they become aware of a problem before enough customer complaints come in to flag it, and the problem is fixed.

Third, the current set of HD customer equipment (receivers and DVRs) will call and report problems to DirecTV when there are repeated or consistent problems. More than one person has reported in these forums that DirecTV has called them to schedule a service call because their equipment reported problems (including satellite signal strength issues). Yet another pro-active function on the part of DirecTV to provide the best possible service.

Last, the best thing you can do to resolve the problem you are having is to repeatedly call and politely report your symptoms. Most likely, this will lead to a service call, as somewhere around 99.8% of all customer problems are the cause of something at the customer location.

I do hope you find a solution to your problem. But I can pretty well assure you that you won't find one by asking to speak to engineering or head-end operations, or senior management. You are but 0.00000005% of DirecTV's customer base (that reads 5 one hundred millionths of one percent).


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

Well said, Carl.


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## RogueWing16 (Aug 25, 2009)

RogueWing16 said:


> I haven't checked the alignment.
> 
> I only started noticing pixelation during the games today and some college games yesterday. The games all happened to be on my locals. Other shows on my DVR seem to look fine.
> 
> Anyway, counting down the weeks before I upgrade to a flat panel and get HD.


I think I am using the wrong term in my post.:nono2: I have been saying pixelation (it's not the pixelation you get during a bad storm), but I believe I am experiencing compression. All of my research on buying a flat panel is screwing my terms up. Anyway, what I am seeing is a grainy image (I referred to this as pixelation) around moving objects . Like I stated earlier, I just noticed it this weekend. Maybe with all of my LCD/Plasma research, I have become more picky with the signal.


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

SD is dead, move along....

:lol:


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## joshjr (Aug 2, 2008)

dubber deux said:


> For reference I have used my ECEB SD box and my OTA antenna to compare locals and the D* quality is across the board on all locals much more compressed than that of my ECEB as of the past two weeks or so. Before that the quality was almost the same. Something IS different.


Maybe your dish needs aligned. It is possible that the issue is not on D*'s end. Alot of people say that OTA is better then their local reception from D*. If its that much better on OTA then get recievers that you can hook an antenna to and watch it of them. I mean I think you have done what you can in a way by reporting the issue. You wont get ahold of anyone that can directly answer your questions about that.


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## mystic7 (Dec 9, 2007)

Here in Charlotte, NC I've definitely noticed an increase in sparklies in the past month or so, even on national HD channels like MLB network. Even mild transitions result in sparklies on the local NBC affiliate during such rockem-sockem fare as "Jeopardy".


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## mystic7 (Dec 9, 2007)

RogueWing16 said:


> I think I am using the wrong term in my post.:nono2: I have been saying pixelation (it's not the pixelation you get during a bad storm), but I believe I am experiencing compression. All of my research on buying a flat panel is screwing my terms up. Anyway, what I am seeing is a grainy image (I referred to this as pixelation) around moving objects . Like I stated earlier, I just noticed it this weekend. Maybe with all of my LCD/Plasma research, I have become more picky with the signal.


The technical term, as specified by Bell Labs, is "sparklies"  And as I mentioned above, you are not alone. I've noticed it too, on HD channels. Don't know about SD, never watch the stuff.


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## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

"Sparklies" aren't usually caused by compression, they usually indicate the bit error rate is too high and so individual pixels are being dropped. The most common cause is using an HDMI cable that isn't heavy enough gauge for the distance to the TV (not suggesting that's your issue by the way, just as an example). If you are seeing this on your locals, and it's not a cable problem, then something is probably creating uncorrectable errors in the signal distribution. If it's on all your locals, then the DirecTV Local Receive facility or the signal distribution from there to the uplink would be likely suspects.


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

CCarncross said:


> SD is dead, move along....
> 
> :lol:


Yeah tell that to probably 80% of D* customer base. :lol:

SD is going to be a critical part of D* revenues for some time to come. That is why they need to take care of issues here as well.


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

joshjr said:


> Maybe your dish needs aligned. It is possible that the issue is not on D*'s end. Alot of people say that OTA is better then their local reception from D*. If its that much better on OTA then get recievers that you can hook an antenna to and watch it of them. I mean I think you have done what you can in a way by reporting the issue. You wont get ahold of anyone that can directly answer your questions about that.


Obviously you haven't read my thread from the start. I have a perfectly good signal and have a decent technical background to understand the difference between compression rates and signal issues.

ONCE AGAIN....I have used the chain of command in order to have D* resolve BOC issues and it hasn't worked apparently.

Bottom line is that even though I am a single customer, I help to pay the salaries of those unreachable engineers and management. This type of customer response is unacceptable to me as the customer. If as a paying customer I want to have contact with that personnel and do so in a polite, reasonable, business-like manner there is NO excuse for refusing to do so.

While I wouldn't say that the typical cable outfit or ever DISH is much better it speaks volumes about this business in general, it seems that customer NO service is the name of the game.

I see that D* just recently named a new CEO. I'm going to be sending him a certified mail- return receipt requested letter concerning the state of customer NO service at D*.It's going to be a polite but revealing one I can assure you.


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

texasbrit said:


> If it's on all your locals, then the DirecTV Local Receive facility or the signal distribution from there to the uplink would be likely suspects.


This is my belief as well.

Thanks for your insight texasbrit!


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

dubber deux said:


> Obviously you haven't read my thread from the start. I have a perfectly good signal and have a decent technical background to understand the difference between compression rates and signal issues.
> 
> ONCE AGAIN....I have used the chain of command in order to have D* resolve BOC issues and it hasn't worked apparently.
> 
> ...


You're contacting people who aren't meant to be contacted. That's unacceptable. Period.

You've had someone in the office of the President say that they're working on it but somehow that's not good enough for you. To pursue it beyond that is harassment and you're wasting engineer's time.

As Carl6 suggested, if others start reporting the same issues and they notice a pattern then they'll address it. Until then I suggest you re-contact the Office of the President and ask to be let out of your contract because they can't fix the issues you're reporting. Based on your history I'm sure they won't have a problem with that. Then you can find a provider you're happy with and we'll all be a bit happier too.


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

tcusta00 said:


> You're contacting people who aren't meant to be contacted. That's unacceptable. Period.


there's the bottom line, but if you're petty enough it does not matter.


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## swyman18 (Jan 12, 2009)

> If as a paying customer I want to have contact with that personnel and do so in a polite, reasonable, business-like manner there is NO excuse for refusing to do so.


Wow... is all I can say.

Polite, reasonable, or otherwise, can you imagine if they accomodated that for all 18 million or so customers?


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

I pay taxes, think Barack Obama will take a personal call from me?
good lord.


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

tcusta00 said:


> You're contacting people who aren't meant to be contacted. That's unacceptable. Period.


As long as I'm a paying customer and have already attempted the perscribed route as indicated by D*, than my attempts are perfectly acceptable. 
[


> You've had someone in the office of the President say that they're working on it but somehow that's not good enough for you. To pursue it beyond that is harassment and you're wasting engineer's time.


Unfortunately that CSR didn't follow up even though I specifically requested such. So further action was required. Frankly I didn't get the impression that she really cared or could understand what I was communicating to her, even though I used layman's terms when explaining things to her.

Harassment...haaaa!!!!! Yeah three brief e mails, polite, and businesslike ,...please! I'd like to make sure that others that are not getting issues resolved by D* CSR foil also try directly contacting the necessary individuals .

I have the feeling that in many cases the CSR nonsense is used to try and wear down the customer into giving up when it comes to getting a problem solved.



> As Carl6 suggested, if others start reporting the same issues and they notice a pattern then they'll address it. Until then I suggest you re-contact the Office of the President and ask to be let out of your contract because they can't fix the issues you're reporting. Based on your history I'm sure they won't have a problem with that. Then you can find a provider you're happy with and we'll all be a bit happier too.


I'm going to the top, a certified mail, return receipt requested letter is going to be arriving shortly at the door of the new D* CEO. I'll let you know what happens.


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

nothing will happen, and you will be complaining about that.


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## swyman18 (Jan 12, 2009)

I think bottom line is, the OP is just having a hard time accepting the fact that a large corporation like D* cannot operate in the same manner as a small mom and pop store that has a handful of employees. It is just physically and logistically impossible.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

dubber deux said:


> I'm going to the top, a certified mail, return receipt requested letter is going to be arriving shortly at the door of the new D* CEO. I'll let you know what happens.


A person who's authorized to sign off on certified mail on behalf of executives will sign for it. They will then read it and forward it to the department that already contacted you. They will let you know it's being forwarded. You will come back here and post in every thread again about how there is "NO" service in customer service.

If you're this passionate about it and obviously an expert in these matters just get a job working for them and request to work in the broadcast center.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

dubber deux said:


> As long as I'm a paying customer and have already attempted the prescribed route as indicated by D*, than my attempts are perfectly acceptable.
> 
> Unfortunately that CSR didn't follow up even though I specifically requested such. So further action was required. Frankly I didn't get the impression that she really cared or could understand what I was communicating to her, even though I used layman's terms when explaining things to her.
> 
> ...


So when your attempts at going through the proper channels don't get the answer that you want, you seem to feel it's completely appropriate to bypass the proper channels at whatever the cost to get the answer you want. Not the correct answer per se, just the one you somehow feel entitled too.

As for the CSR, she most likely thought you were :icon_stup I can fully sympathize with her.


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

Shades228 said:


> A person who's authorized to sign off on certified mail on behalf of executives will sign for it.


I'm going to TRY and make sure that doesn't happen. It will be additionally ONLY to be signed for by the CEO himself. You can have the letter be sent this way by USPS. If he refuses it, which he may possibly do, it will be returned.

I'm determined to make sure that the new "top tack" at D* gets an HONEST rundown of events and I will hope that he investigates other D* customer experiences as well.



> If you're this passionate about it and obviously an expert in these matters just get a job working for them and request to work in the broadcast center.


That would be nice. I wish I had the technical certifications to be a systems engineer at D* but unfortunately, I don't.

Maybe they could hire me a a go between when BoC or headend issues are encountered by customers. Honestly I would guess that only a handful of customers would have the realization that they would need to actually speak to/e mail the engineering dept. That is why allowing those that specifically request it, should be encouraged to do so. It's amazing to me that D* would not want to work with technically inclined customers to help increase quality of service.

Oh and BTW its kind of amusing all the D* point men hinting that I'm hmmm "crazy" for trying to get a legitimate issue that affects large numbers of D* customers resolved. Many of those folks probably see that they have a problem but don't understand the technical significance of it and thus get trapped in the revolving world of CSR roulette as so many here like to call it.


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## ffemtreed (Jan 30, 2008)

when your car breaks do you expect to talk to the engineer who designed your car to fix it? 

Even if your DTV is overcompressed, there is nothing in your contract that say DTV has to deliver a certain picture quality.


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

ffemtreed said:


> when your car breaks do you expect to talk to the engineer who designed your car to fix it?


yes dammit, I pay for my sd service and I expect then to jump when I say so.


> Even if your DTV is overcompressed, there is nothing in your contract that say DTV has to deliver a certain picture quality.


well...waahhhh


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## krock918316 (Mar 5, 2007)

I think he just likes to write letters.....

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2129726&highlight=return+receipt#post2129726



> I'll give things a little more time. If there is no action soon I will be sending a return receipt requested snail main to the CEO of D*. I have a feeling that a few folks at D* are guna feel the heat after that letter is sent.


Did anyone 'feel the heat'? :lol:


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## Fontano (Feb 7, 2008)

dubber deux said:


> I'm going to TRY and make sure that doesn't happen. It will be additionally ONLY to be signed for by the CEO himself. You can have the letter be sent this way by USPS. If he refuses it, which he may possibly do, it will be returned.


I believe you are referring to Restricted Delivery:
http://www.usps.com/send/waystosendmail/extraservices/restricteddeliveryservice.htm

I refer you to the section: "or to the person authorized in writing to sign for intended recipient"

Wanna place a bet that the Executive staff has that document on file that allows the mail room to sign it? And probably another on file that authorize other parties to read and process any mail?


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

krock918316 said:


> I think he just likes to write letters.....
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2129726&highlight=return+receipt#post2129726
> 
> Did anyone 'feel the heat'? :lol:


At the time I sent that letter there was NO CEO....D* was still looking.

Usually when the new top dog comes in he wants to make a name for himself, hopefully my well timed letter will help.


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

delusional as well as petty.


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## wilbur_the_goose (Aug 16, 2006)

Just lurking here - I'm half rooting for the OP and half chuckling at the quixotic behavior. Good luck!

But I don't think you'll win. We couldn't even get our local ABC station to broadcast a usable DT signal. For some reason, they CHOSE to use VHF-6 for their HD signal. Channel 6 is amazingly tough to get OTA. They ignored their viewers for months and eventually increased the signal strength. Most still can't get them OTA.

If we couldn't affect a local station, I doubt you'll be able to get to a huge national corporation.

If you really want to make yourself heard, buy some stock and speak at the annual meeting.


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## CJTE (Sep 18, 2007)

RobertE said:


> So when your attempts at going through the proper channels don't get the answer that you want, you seem to feel it's completely appropriate to bypass the proper channels at whatever the cost to get the answer you want. Not the correct answer per se, just the one you somehow feel entitled too.
> 
> As for the CSR, she most likely thought you were :icon_stup I can fully sympathize with her.


I don't want to speak for everyone, but I do believe I can say that the majority of us feel this way.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

dubber deux said:


> At the time I sent that letter there was NO CEO....D* was still looking.
> 
> Usually when the new top dog comes in he wants to make a name for himself, hopefully my well timed letter will help.


There is always a CEO. Larry Hunter is still the CEO until Michael White takes over on 1/1/10. So sending it to Michael White right now will do you no good he's not an employee yet. However if you have a complaint with the shading of the Pepsi Bottles in your area you could write to him right now.

CEO's make names for themself by making boards and shareholders happy. They hire people to make customers happy. It's pretty obvious that you really don't care about the resolution at this point you're trying to turn it into big company vs you. So have fun with that we will enjoy reading about it.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

Try reversing the polarity on the tachyon injectors to the illudium q-36 explosive space modulator. Also make sure those injectors are getting 1.21 jigawatts of power, no more, no less.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

RobertE said:


> Try reversing the polarity on the tachyon injectors to the illudium q-36 explosive space modulator. Also make sure those injectors are getting 1.21 jigawatts of power, no more, no less.


No no no, are you crazy, man?! The negative nominalized hyper-directional pattern buffer must take precedence over the charged oscillator at all times! The injectors are the least of his worries.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

tcusta00 said:


> No no no, are you crazy, man?! The negative nominalized hyper-directional pattern buffer must take precedence over the charged oscillator at all times! The injectors are the least of his worries.


I suppose thats possible, but it could also be any of these:

The Adaptable Cybercluster
Computerized Thought Fluid
Detachable Infectionazer
Electrical Cryopatch
Electromagnetic Patch
Hearingizer
Implanted Cardiocatcher
Implanted Circulationoid
Modified Epithelium Divider
Optical Scanning Infection
Parallel Circulation Patch
Subdermal Patch Catcher

So hard to say. :scratch:


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## Garry (Jul 4, 2006)

Fontano said:


> I believe you are referring to Restricted Delivery:
> http://www.usps.com/send/waystosendmail/extraservices/restricteddeliveryservice.htm
> 
> I refer you to the section: "or to the person authorized in writing to sign for intended recipient"
> ...


Actually, the CEO goes to the post office himself to sign for the mail.:lol::lol:


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

dubber deux said:


> I wish I had the technical certifications to be a systems engineer at D* but unfortunately, I don't.


Then why is it you feel you have an entitlement to try and talk to them at their level?

Please, find a service provider that will meet your expectations and requirements, and go with them. It is obvious that DirecTV will not accomplish that. Why continue to beat an obviously dead horse?

While you may feel your pursuit is in the best interest of not just you but all customers, it is very clear that most people on this web site do not agree with you in that regard. What you are trying to accomplish, and the manner in which you are doing so, is in fact detrimental to the service that the rest of us will receive.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

dubber deux said:


> *Just a warning to potential subscribers. D* doesn't care about the legitimate concerns of their PAYING customers*
> :eek2:
> You can bet that the responses of some of the posters above reflect the attitude of D* management as well. :nono:
> 
> BUYER BEWARE!!


Please do not make blanket false statements such as this. I have had many concerns over the years, and all of mine have always been taken care of, including ones that have dealt with bad hardware, etc... I can say the same for several others I know that have directv as well....

Just because they don't listen to you doesn't mean they don't listen to anyone...

And I know you think you know whats going on from a technical standpoint, but how could you really, since you don;t actually have access to their equipment.. And you have even stated your to trained well enough to actual work at a BC. A lot of times, its the people that know a little that always think they know a lot that are the most wrong in these situations. You'd be better of simply describing the problem your seeing in detail, rather that the reasons you believe are causing it...


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

dubber deux said:


> I'm going to TRY and make sure that doesn't happen. It will be additionally ONLY to be signed for by the CEO himself. You can have the letter be sent this way by USPS. If he refuses it, which he may possibly do, it will be returned.
> 
> I'm determined to make sure that the new "top tack" at D* gets an HONEST rundown of events and I will hope that he investigates other D* customer experiences as well.
> 
> ...


I hope he does get to read your letter.. He will be under a lot of stress, and getting a letter of this nature with this information could bring a nice big smile to his face... I know it would mine if I was in charge!


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## HerntDawg (Oct 6, 2008)

Isn't there a mod that can kill this thread..... i like to waste my time, not everyone's.

jeez


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## HarleyD (Aug 31, 2006)

The core of this is you think you are too educated and technically knowledgeable to waste your precious time on an ignorant CSR who is beneath your level of expertise.

Ever wonder how the _real_ engineers view wannabes like you? Well there you go.

That shoe don't fit so good on the other foot, do it?

Don't be mistakenly impressed by OTA engineers that actually will talk with you either. 90% of their job is monitoring. Until something actually goes wrong their job consists mainly of monitoring operations and recording measurements and events to satisfy FCC requirements.

They have time to take your calls...and then some. OTA engineers are the Maytag repairmen of broadcast engineering.

I have nice little dialogs with the engineer at Channel 38 here in Tampa fom time to time, initiated some years back when I was having problems pulling their signal from the local 'antenna farm' and no problem with anybody else's local OTA signal.

But, just keep telling yourself that you are being treated unfairly.

If an engineer had to speak with every caller who considered themselves 'too smart' to talk to a service rep, very little actual engineering would be done.

Really, if you have a problem DirecTV cannot or does not correct, petition them to be let out of your contract. I think they'd somehow find their way clear to let you go.

But then you'd lose your pet complaint.

I'm no longer even sure that picture quality is your issue. I think the fact that you feel slighted that the engineers don't respond to you as a knowledgeable peer is what is actually eating you. If an engineer would see fit to talk to you you'd be mollified regardless of the results in your picture quality.

The fact that HD doesn't matter to you is evidence that there is a limit to how much PQ really matters to you. You just want a high level response to your ever-so-sophisticated and erudite pronouncements and observations.


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## KSbugeater (Feb 17, 2005)

At the risk of reopening the wound (noticed this thread for the first time just now)...

Our SD locals have looked compressed for as long as I've had them (3-4 years), longer than we've had HD LIL. Are you sure you're not just more aware of compression artifacts now that you have OTA digital to compare them to? I know I noticed it a lot more after I got HDTV... can't stand watching sports on the D* SD feed (72.5 in my case).


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

texasbrit said:


> If you are seeing this on your locals, and it's not a cable problem, then something is probably creating uncorrectable errors in the signal distribution. If it's on all your locals, then the DirecTV Local Receive facility or the signal distribution from there to the uplink would be likely suspects.


texasbrit I'd like to know more about this scenario you mention.

I'd tended to believe these points might be the source of trouble as well, but I don't have the expertise to fully understand what within this system might be the direct cause of the problem. Care to elaborate on this further? I'd appreciate it.

Could D* be doing system maintenance that might cause this ?

Bill


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

dubber deux said:


> texasbrit I'd like to know more about this scenario you mention.
> 
> I'd tended to believe these points might be the source of trouble as well, but I don't have the expertise to fully understand what within this system might be the direct cause of the problem. Care to elaborate on this further? I'd appreciate it.
> 
> ...


wait, now you're not an expert on it? which is it?
lies getting hard to track I bet.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

HarleyD said:


> I'm no longer even sure that picture quality is your issue. I think the fact that you feel slighted that the engineers don't respond to you as a knowledgeable peer is what is actually eating you. If an engineer would see fit to talk to you you'd be mollified regardless of the results in your picture quality.
> 
> The fact that HD doesn't matter to you is evidence that there is a limit to how much PQ really matters to you. You just want a high level response to your ever-so-sophisticated and erudite pronouncements and observations.


So eloquent, and so true!


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

KSbugeater said:


> At the risk of reopening the wound (noticed this thread for the first time just now)...
> 
> Our SD locals have looked compressed for as long as I've had them (3-4 years), longer than we've had HD LIL. Are you sure you're not just more aware of compression artifacts now that you have OTA digital to compare them to? I know I noticed it a lot more after I got HDTV... can't stand watching sports on the D* SD feed (72.5 in my case).


That is what is odd KS....

Actually before about 2-3 weeks ago our SD locals off of D* looked superior less grainy and pixelated (less compression) than the SD CONUS channels, and pretty noticeable to me, especially evident when there was great amount of movement going on.

The main reason why I use D* SD is because the OTA HD signal here is not that great because of trees and when the wind increases the picture drops out enough that it becomes annoying.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

dubber deux said:


> That is what is odd KS....
> 
> Actually before about 2-3 weeks ago our SD locals off of D* looked superior less grainy and pixelated (less compression) than the SD CONUS channels, and pretty noticeable to me, especially evident when there was great amount of movement going on.
> 
> The main reason why I use D* SD is because the OTA HD signal here is not that great because of trees and when the wind increases the picture drops out enough that it becomes annoying.


Are you implying that you have LoS problems with OTA with bad weather?


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

Shades228 said:


> Are you implying that you have LoS problems with OTA with bad weather?


No actually it is "mulitpath" inteference.

When it gets windy the trees start moving around alot and it seems to increase blockage or multipath , or both.

Similar problems with analogue and FM reception, except with DTV often times the signal becomes poor enough that the threshold for a picture no longer exists..where with analogue you got the ghosting ..

Even amplifiers don't seem to help with this problem.

In defense of the OTA stations they have done a very good job of replicating the old analogue coverage area, but the signal doesn't seem to be quite as powerful in most of the new transmitters.


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

dubber deux said:


> No actually it is "mulitpath" inteference.
> 
> When it gets windy the trees start moving around alot and it seems to increase blockage or multipath , or both.
> 
> ...


bet its an sd antenna.....


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

dubber deux said:


> No actually it is "mulitpath" interference.
> 
> When it gets windy the trees start moving around alot and it seems to increase blockage or multipath , or both.
> 
> ...


:nono:

If you suffer from multipath, you don't want to add amps, you want a directional antenna. If you add amps to a crap signal, guess what you get? Amped crap. Based on your previous bragging about your qualifications, you should have known that.


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

RobertE said:


> :nono:
> 
> If you suffer from multipath, you don't want to add amps, you want a directional antenna. If you add amps to a crap signal, guess what you get? Amped crap. Based on your previous bragging about your qualifications, you should have known that.


writing letters and using phone is a qualification? ??


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

RobertE said:


> :nono:
> 
> If you suffer from multipath, you don't want to add amps, you want a directional antenna. If you add amps to a crap signal, guess what you get? Amped crap. Based on your previous bragging about your qualifications, you should have known that.


I DID know that but with the problems I had I figured that a little experimentation might be worth a try. Sometimes you can be surprised that theory and practice don't always coincide. If you knew anything about RF in the VHF/UHF bands you'd know that.

So let me guess Rob are you involved in HAM radio? I am. I know you could say anything because this is the internet. LOL


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

Lets see.. Mutipath is getting multiple signals due to bounce off of objects.. why would amplifying the bounces help at all?


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

a ham operator that cannot get a good ota signal...awesome..


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

Someone please lock this topic. It's getting ridiculous.


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

David MacLeod said:


> a ham operator that cannot get a good ota signal...awesome..


Ah....most HAMs are still (including myself) using analogue signals...one of the good things about "legacy" technology like analogue is that even when signals are pretty weak or multipathing you can still see a marginal but viewable picture with SSTV...LOL. I figure you'll have to google "SSTV"

Unfortunately we have height restrictions here, and plenty of tall trees...It really is a challenge for OTA digital signals.


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

yes, assume I have never heard of slow scan, proves what happens when you assume.
the old radio shack crystal radio still working for you then..


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

I'm not saying that there should never be progress of course, but old analogue usage is interesting and HF (although prop is not so good now because of low sunspot activities except on 40 m and lower) can still be fascinating. There is still something amazing to me about being able to QSO with a LP station 2000miles away in Europe, Asia, or the like.

But I do like new technology as well. 

Sorry for OT, but I love that hobby.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

dubber deux said:


> I'm not saying that there should never be progress of course, but old analogue usage is interesting and HF (although prop is not so good now because of low sunspot activities except on 40 m and lower) can still be fascinating. There is still something amazing to me about being able to QSO with a LP station 2000miles away in Europe, Asia, or the like.
> 
> *But I do like new technology as well. *
> 
> Sorry for OT, but I love that hobby.


Yet you don't subscribe to HD? :lol:


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## tuff bob (Mar 5, 2007)

swyman18 said:


> I think bottom line is, the OP is just having a hard time accepting the fact that a large corporation like D* cannot operate in the same manner as a small mom and pop store that has a handful of employees. It is just physically and logistically impossible.


the OTA engineers care about their OTA product. I've been able to resolve issues with both CBS and FOX in Chicago and in both instances been contacted directly by the OTA Transmission Engineers - simply by posting feedback via the station website.

In one case one of the OTA stations had to work with DirecTV to get an encoder replaced.

At no time did I feel that they didn't want to talk about the issues I was seeing, nor attempt to brush me off.

As for the OP, he should consider using twitter to contact DirecTV, whomever handles that seems to suggest they'll pass issues to the LABC. Or of course contact the Executive Customer Relations dept, since he indicates the normal escalation paths are useless.

an example from twitter:
# @directv lost all sound of the GB - SF game, 5 or so minutes now. Channel 709 12:40 PM Nov 22nd from TwitterBerry 
directv @chad4404 we alerted our broadcast team to take a look 2 days ago from mobile web


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

tuff bob said:


> an example from twitter:
> # @directv lost all sound of the GB - SF game, 5 or so minutes now. Channel 709 12:40 PM Nov 22nd from TwitterBerry
> directv @chad4404 we alerted our broadcast team to take a look 2 days ago from mobile web


Which is exactly what the OP wanted ... "we'll look into it" ... although it seems that he won't accept that answer. The only acceptable answer would be the "restoration" of what he believes the channels looked like before?

If DirecTV did anything to the OP's locals it was probably some reduction in the backhaul. dubber, did your locals come online in HD at about the same time as the apparent SD reductions? If (still the big if) DirecTV did do something I would not expect them to reverse the move. Not without a flood of complaints from many people (as opposed to many complaints from one person).

Changing the backhauls is a possibility ... although I would expect that would have been done many months ago. As long as the signals meet DirecTV's quality standards (however low or high they may be) I wouldn't expect change. But that's just my 2c.


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## kevinwmsn (Aug 19, 2006)

KSbugeater said:


> At the risk of reopening the wound (noticed this thread for the first time just now)...
> 
> Our SD locals have looked compressed for as long as I've had them (3-4 years), longer than we've had HD LIL. Are you sure you're not just more aware of compression artifacts now that you have OTA digital to compare them to? I know I noticed it a lot more after I got HDTV... can't stand watching sports on the D* SD feed (72.5 in my case).


Being your locals are on 72.5, hopefully sometime soon in the future your SD locals will be 99 or 103 where they will be less compressed.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

KSbugeater said:


> At the risk of reopening the wound (noticed this thread for the first time just now)...
> 
> Our SD locals have looked compressed for as long as I've had them (3-4 years), longer than we've had HD LIL. Are you sure you're not just more aware of compression artifacts now that you have OTA digital to compare them to? I know I noticed it a lot more after I got HDTV... can't stand watching sports on the D* SD feed (72.5 in my case).


Being in a market that converted from 72.5 I can understand your pain. Hang in there till it's converted and you'll be very happy.


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

David MacLeod said:


> bet its an sd antenna.....


:lol:

Priceless


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## trainman (Jan 9, 2008)

dubber deux said:


> Ah....most HAMs are still (including myself) using analogue signals...


"HAMs"? The origin of the term "ham radio" may somewhat murky, but it's definitely not an acronym, and therefore "ham" shouldn't be capitalized.

(As far as I know, best guess is that it's a shortened version of "amateur radio" with a British influence -- "ham radio" would be pronounced with a silent "H" in certain British accents -- with the added bonus of making the term harder to confuse with "AM radio," i.e., radio broadcasting using amplitude modulation.)


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

From the ARRL (Amateur Radio Relay League - perhaps the most inclusive national amateur radio organization):

Why Do They Call Themselves "Ham?"
Although the origin of the word "ham" is obscure, every ham has his or her own pet theory. One holds that early Amateurs were called hams because they liked to "perform" on the air, as in "hamming it up." Another proposes that the name came from the "ham-fisted" way some early Amateurs handled their code keys. The easiest to accept is that "ham" is a contraction of "Am," as in Amateur. One of the most exotic holds that "ham" is an acronym from the initials of three college students who were among the first Radio Amateurs. 

So, it is possibly an acronym, it is possibly a contraction, it is unknown to be sure.

Oh, yeah, I'm one also. Extra class.


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

James Long said:


> If DirecTV did anything to the OP's locals it was probably some reduction in the backhaul. dubber, did your locals come online in HD at about the same time as the apparent SD reductions? If (still the big if) DirecTV did do something I would not expect them to reverse the move. Not without a flood of complaints from many people (as opposed to many complaints from one person).
> 
> Changing the backhauls is a possibility ... although I would expect that would have been done many months ago. As long as the signals meet DirecTV's quality standards (however low or high they may be) I wouldn't expect change. But that's just my 2c.


James,

Thank you for a dose of technical detail about the actual issue!
It's nice to see there are some on DBStalk that have some interest in actually discussing the nitty gritty technical aspects of things.

No, as far as I remember the Greenville market locals have been up for quite some time now at least a year or more I think.

James could you elaborate on the process of "backhaul reductions" a bit more?

I'm glad to see that you are giving what appears to be frank, honest information. Like you mention perhaps BOC will see how low they can go with PQ and when the calls start coming in by the hundreds they back off if needed. This makes sense to me and is logical.

Keep the info coming!

Bill


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

I'm still trying to understand, if they're actually doing so that is, why would DirecTV choose to increase the compression on your spotbeam channels? 

What real advantage would it give them unless they are trying to clear more bandwidth for additional SD LiLs to be carried in your market?

Have they increased the number of your SD locals? 

From it's inception spotbeam technology actually alleviates to need for increased compression through repeated transponder frequency reuse schemes transmitted over spatially isolated beams.


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

HoTat2 said:


> I'm still trying to understand, if they're actually doing so that is, why would DirecTV choose to increase the compression on your spotbeam channels?
> 
> Have they increased the number of your SD locals?
> 
> .


Actually it is interesting that you bring this up.

I do know that in my market there are a few stations that are not currently carried by D*. An independent in Athens/Toccoa, GA, and a couple in Greenville. So do you think that the "must carry" rule is going force them to carry these smaller outlets?

I know the regs recently changed about this..... maybe you know more.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

dubber deux said:


> No, as far as I remember the Greenville market locals have been up for quite some time now at least a year or more I think.


Well that blows my theory ... any change in backhaul wouldn't be recent.

To explain my theory: Satellite companies receive the signals of TV stations at a point of presence somewhere in each market. In some cases a direct link to a station's output is provided (not requiring OTA broadcast) otherwise high quality (and expensive) tuners are used. DirecTV has a list of their point of presences (receive sites) on their website. The signals received at the point of presence were backhauled to an uplink center. This can be done via leased data links or occasionally via satellite (not the DBS satellites you use, but other systems). Since it is point to point not point to multipoint a direct land line data link is most likely. Satellite is expensive for point to point.

Years ago, before a market was in HD, the satellite companies received the analog signals of stations, encoded them and sent them on. A handful of encoded SD signals doesn't take up much of a backhaul.

Now markets are in HD ... even markets and stations not carried by the satellite carriers are received by the carriers in HD. If the station is carried in HD it makes more sense to backhaul ONLY the HD signal. So in a market where they once carried a handful of SD signals on the backhaul they now carry a handful of HD signals on a slightly bigger backhaul. For SD subscribers the satellite companies simply take the HD signal and center crop it. You're getting a downrezzed cropped version of the signal HD subscribers are seeing.

This change should have been made way back when ... late last year or at least before February as satellite providers scrambled to meet the original OTA deadline when the analog sources were to go away. In markets that had HD carried via satellite the SD viewers would see what I described above ... downrezzed cropped HD = SD. In markets that are not carried in HD it is likely that the downrezzed cropped part of the equation is being done at the point of presence. The focus has changed from getting a decent SD signal to the uplink to getting a better HD signal to the uplink.

But as noted, this isn't a recent change for your market ... so all my speculation is moot. If there was a change it wasn't the move from SD backhauls to HD backhauls (unless for some stupid reason DirecTV left a separate SD backhaul up for several months after it was no longer needed - which would be a complete waste money of money).

Please note - these are BACKHAULS that I am speaking of. Not the separate feeds of SD and HD channels that customers see.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

dubber deux said:


> Thank you for a dose of technical detail about the actual issue!
> It's nice to see there are some on DBStalk that have some interest in actually discussing the nitty gritty technical aspects of things.l


What technical detail did James provide? I'm not trying to disrespect him, but he didn't really say anything that would come close to "nitty gritty technical" stuff. It sounds like you're responding to the words under his username more than anything else.


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## blueoyster (May 3, 2007)

RobertE said:


> DirecTv (even Dish for that matter) is not going to crank up the compression just for the hell of it.
> 
> Maybe something else is going on at the uplink or somewhere else along the chain.


Uplink issues have never been fixed when I've reported them and the Support was clueless and played the blame game. The audio quality on our locals in Albany N.Y. SUCK! They've had different audio issues since the locals here were introduced. Originally on certain stations,now they all stink! I hate TWC but it looks like it's time for 2 bills again. I'll keep D* for ST with Base package and use sucky TWC for the rest.


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## Knowledge (Oct 30, 2009)

dubber deux said:


> Thanks for your insight Robert.
> 
> You know IF D* would actually be willing to be HONEST about various shifts in quality and explain it when you called them at customer service I would at least be understanding of it, but when they always refuse to be frank about such issues it just infurates me.
> 
> If anyone monitoring this thread from D* has the lo down I'd be happy to hear an honest explanation .


This information is something that you would obtain at a Corp. level. CSR's are not equipped nor are they given the tools to answer or comment on your request about compression rates.


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## Knowledge (Oct 30, 2009)

dubber deux said:


> Maybe the first line CSRs won't know , BUT then they should have the ability to transfer you DIRECTLY to someone that DOES know!


HAHAHAHA! Dream on! Do you think the person at the McD's counter should be able to channel Ray Crock over a watered down soda?


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

Knowledge said:


> HAHAHAHA! Dream on! Do you think the person at the McD's counter should be able to channel Ray Crock over a watered down soda?


self-entitlement leads to delusions that support these types of conversations


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

Knowledge said:


> This information is something that you would obtain at a Corp. level. CSR's are not equipped nor are they given the tools to answer or comment on your request about compression rates.


I clearly understand that, and like I said if one is a PAYING customer and has a legit case they need to be directed to those that actually can give you a sound answer.

To those peanut gallery members ,I actually have been able to talk to the engineers that designed my car!!!!!!

Oh and BTW when I was having a technical problem with my VW GTI some years ago, I tried to use the customer care chain of command. Well that simply didn't work. I then called the MAIN corporate VWoA HQ in Auburn Hills, MI and politely requested I be connected to the technician info line. He asked for my VW dealer ID number. I told them that I was a customer and that I had not been able to get the problem resolved using the normal avenues. I was connected to a competent field engineer who quickly and easily helped me to solve my problem . I was able to relate this back to the stealership techs and everthing was fine again.

If anything it proves that there are exceptions to the rule and ANY organization worth its salt has to realize this. VW seems to, yet D* doesn't. Why not?

...."total customer satisfaction.....that's D* goal" HAH!!!!!!


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## CJTE (Sep 18, 2007)

dubber deux said:


> ...."total customer satisfaction.....that's D* goal" HAH!!!!!!


DirecTVs goal is to satisfy their entire sub base. (as are most corporations goals, to satisfy end users, stock holders, etc)
If you aren't satisfied, then leave. DirecTV will still have accomplished its goal. Everyone who currently is a subscriber with DirecTV is satisfied, or wont be a customer with DirecTV anymore.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

Oh God, you did the same thing to VW. :nono2:


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

blueoyster said:


> *Uplink issues have never been fixed when I've reported them and the Support was clueless and played the blame game.* The audio quality on our locals in Albany N.Y. SUCK! They've had different audio issues since the locals here were introduced. Originally on certain stations,now they all stink! I hate TWC but it looks like it's time for 2 bills again. I'll keep D* for ST with Base package and use sucky TWC for the rest.


Sorry to hear about your related issues as well blueoyster.

This is what really steams me blue. While there may be logical, technical, and economic issues that create a necessity for the problem D* refuses to ante up and come clean. I'm a reasonable person and if D* directed the customer to the appropiate technical people for an explanation I might be understanding. But instead they play ring around the rosy which results is increasing annoyance and frustration. And to foil the theory of the peanut gallery here. You yourselves state that only a handful of customers might be determined to get a more detailed explanation/resolution about such head end (BOC ) items. So for the few customers that want it why not belly up? The cost arguement, or the "they are too busy arguement" is NA.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

dubber deux said:


> Sorry to hear about your related issues as well blueoyster.
> 
> This is what really steams me blue. While there may be logical, technical, and economic issues that create a necessity for the problem D* refuses to ante up and come clean. I'm a reasonable person and if D* directed the customer to the appropiate technical people for an explanation I might be understanding. But instead they play ring around the rosy which results is increasing annoyance and frustration. And to foil the theory of the peanut gallery here. You yourselves state that only a handful of customers might be determined to get a more detailed explanation/resolution about such head end (BOC ) items. So for the few customers that want it why not belly up? The cost arguement, or the "they are too busy arguement" is NA.


Nope, not related issue at all. His is with the local uplink, yours is with phantom compression problems. Try again.


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

tcusta00 said:


> Oh God, you did the same thing to VW. :nono2:


VWoA even THANKED me via snail mail for my bringing the issue to their attention, my persistance also help them solve the same problem for thousands of other owners as well. :eek2::lol:


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

dubber deux said:


> VWoA even THANKED me via snail mail for my bringing the issue to their attention, my persistance also help them solve the same problem for thousands of other owners as well. :eek2::lol:


:joy::joy::joy::joy:


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

sometimes its easier to thank someone to prevent more calls and letters.


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

dubber deux said:


> my persistance also helped them solve the same problem for thousands of other owners as well. :eek2::lol:


Thing is that those other customers that were previously DISSATISFIED, are now satisfied with their product and that turns into future business from them and those who are referred. Oh, wait, that is LONG TERM thinking, how foolish of me.


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

dubber deux said:


> I noticed over the past two weeks or three that the SD spot beam channels (locals) have an increased amount of pixelization compared to just a month ago. It is definitely noticable when there is significant movement . All the locals are demonstrating this effect. My signal is good and the conus channels look pretty much the same as always, which is ok.
> 
> I am wondering if D* had increased the compression on spot beam channels to increase their offerings of more locals in other areas?
> 
> ...


Just want to reiterate the original issue.


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

sounds to me like your just trying to boost your ego here. 
you're mad directv did not break SOP and spend time with you personally on what they consider a MINOR issue.
they do not care as much about sd as they do about hd, those with sd need to realize that and plan accordingly. adapt or go extinct.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

dubber deux said:


> Just want to reiterate the original issue.


Should everyone else quote their original comments, too? It'll do nothing more.


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

David MacLeod said:


> sounds to me like your just trying to boost your ego here.
> you're mad directv did not break SOP and spend time with you personally on what they consider a MINOR issue.
> they do not care as much about sd as they do about hd, those with sd need to realize that and plan accordingly. adapt or go extinct.


So what we are to gather here is...."we at D* don't really give a crap about 85% of our customer base ".

Considering the economy, SD will be the majority of D* customers for some time to come whether you like it or not.


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

dubber deux said:


> So what we are to gather here is...."we at D* don't really give a crap about 85% of our customer base ".
> 
> Considering the economy, SD will be the majority of D* customers for some time to come whether you like it or not.


you are foolish if you think that.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

dubber deux said:


> So what we are to gather here is...."we at D* don't really give a crap about 85% of our customer base ".
> 
> Considering the economy, SD will be the majority of D* customers for some time to come whether you like it or not.


Got proof for your numbers?
Only 15% are HD subs? Doubtful


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

Way off. WAAAAYYYY off.

http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/hdtv_052109.pdf

And growing by the year...


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

David MacLeod said:


> you are foolish if you think that.


If the economic situation wasn't so dire I might agree with your statement.

The majority of people are cutting back, and TV while almost a modern necessity, HD service is not, especially expensive HD cable and sat service.

I think you're going to see a lot of folks using OTA for some HD and keeping standard SD service for the majority of service.


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## Canis Lupus (Oct 16, 2006)

dubber deux said:


> Considering the economy, SD will be the majority of D* customers for some time to come whether you like it or not.


That may apply more to DISH customers


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

tcusta00 said:


> Way off. WAAAAYYYY off.
> 
> http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/hdtv_052109.pdf
> 
> And growing by the year...


I was looking for that, thanks.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

dubber deux said:


> If the economic situation wasn't so dire I might agree with your statement.
> 
> The majority of people are cutting back, and TV while almost a modern necessity, HD service is not, especially expensive HD cable and sat service.
> 
> I think you're going to see a lot of folks using OTA for some HD and keeping standard SD service for the majority of service.


Point me to a TV at Walmart.com that's not HD.

Thanks. Bye.


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-10125962-94.html

You and I both know that HD subscriptions have slowed considerably over the past year.

Many people are becoming accepting of only having OTA HD or maybe the few HD offerings from a basic cable package. It is the reality of the new world we live in.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

dubber deux said:


> http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-10125962-94.html
> 
> You and I both know that HD subscriptions have slowed considerably over the past year.


I don't know that. Please back up your rhetoric with some facts and sources. This is getting tired.


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

blueoyster said:


> Uplink issues have never been fixed when I've reported them and the Support was clueless and played the blame game. The audio quality on our locals in Albany N.Y. SUCK! They've had different audio issues since the locals here were introduced. Originally on certain stations,now they all stink! I hate TWC but it looks like it's time for 2 bills again. I'll keep D* for ST with Base package and use sucky TWC for the rest.


So blue,

Can you elaborate further on your experience with D* customer service regarding your issue here?


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

thought so


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

dubber deux said:


> http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-10125962-94.html
> 
> You and I both know that HD subscriptions have slowed considerably over the past year.


that has nothing to do with whether a customer gets hd or sd setup on directv. its about not getting sat at all.
has nothing to do with percentage of d*'s hd vs sd base.
read your own "facts" before posting them.

its also a year old..


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

tcusta00 said:


> Way off. WAAAAYYYY off.
> 
> http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/hdtv_052109.pdf
> 
> And growing by the year...





David MacLeod said:


> I was looking for that, thanks.


It pains me to quote Swanni, but on May 8, 2008 he said, _"DIRECTV says that seven million customers now subscribe to a High-Definition and/or Digital Video Recording service. That number represents 41 percent of the satcaster's total audience of 17.04 million subscribers. DIRECTV reported a year ago that approximately 30 percent of its audience was subscribing to an HD and/or DVR service."_

Not quite the 15% dubber claimed. :lol:

http://www.tvpredictions.com/dsubs050808.htm


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

tcusta00 said:


> I don't know that. Please back up your rhetoric with some facts and sources. This is getting tired.


http://www.i4u.com/article22900.html

Considering that people are now cutting back further I wouldn't doubt that numbers of HD subscribers will DECREASE in 2010.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

dubber deux said:


> http://www.i4u.com/article22900.html


oops....



sigma1914 said:


> It pains me to quote Swanni, but on May 8, 2008 he said, _"DIRECTV says that seven million customers now subscribe to a High-Definition and/or Digital Video Recording service. That number represents 41 percent of the satcaster's total audience of 17.04 million subscribers. DIRECTV reported a year ago that approximately 30 percent of its audience was subscribing to an HD and/or DVR service."_
> 
> Not quite the 15% dubber claimed. :lol:
> 
> http://www.tvpredictions.com/dsubs050808.htm


!rolling

How about now, we done _now_?


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

and another "fact" having nothing to do with directv's hd vs sd customer base.
heres something having nothing to do with the issue, see we can all post foolishness.


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

Now after that brief attempt at once again taking the eye off the ball.....


So still wondering if the "must carry" rule is perhaps forcing D* to increase spot compression in order to provide several other local stations here. Possible?

James Long....you still around?


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

dubber deux said:


> http://www.i4u.com/article22900.html
> 
> Considering that people are now cutting back further I wouldn't doubt that numbers of HD subscribers will DECREASE in 2010.


From your link:
"In-Stat reports that at the end of 2008 there were 39 million homes in the US with HDTVs installed, but a full 17 million of those homes lack HD programming."

That's 44.74% of those homes lack HD programming...not you're made up number of 15%


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

dubber deux said:


> Now after that brief attempt at once again taking the eye off the ball.....
> 
> So still wondering if the "must carry" rule is perhaps forcing D* to increase spot compression in order to provide several other local stations here. Possible?


Nope, we're just debunking your myth that 85% of DirecTV's customers are SD so they should focus on it...

Now that the lie has been disproven you can try to come up with another reason why DirecTV should give a flying ____ about overcompressed SD that only you can see.


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

mlyles said:


> I'm also in the Greenville market and I've noticed it too. It's been a long time since it was this bad.


Need to fend off the peanut gallery's slight of hand tactics here.:dance07::up_to_som


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

dubber deux said:


> Now after that brief attempt at once again taking the eye off the ball.....
> 
> So still wondering if the "must carry" rule is perhaps forcing D* to increase spot compression in order to provide several other local stations here. Possible?
> 
> James Long....you still around?


Did you already forget what I told you in post# 2?

DirecTv hasn't added ANY SD locals in some time. All new additions have been on the 99/103 birds.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

dubber deux said:


> Need to fend off the peanut gallery's slight of hand tactics here.:dance07::up_to_som


Why do you insist on calling people names? Have a conversation without resorting to name calling please.


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

RobertE said:


> Did you already forget what I told you in post# 2?
> 
> DirecTv hasn't added ANY SD locals in some time. All new additions have been on the 99/103 birds.


Didn't you read what I stated.

I stated that maybe they will be FORCED to offer a couple more or so (on 101) due to must carry .


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

dubber deux said:


> Didn't you read what I stated.
> 
> I stated that maybe they will be FORCED to offer a couple more or so (on 101) due to must carry .


You're assuming & Robert's telling you facts...as usual, you don't like it so you keep ignoring it.

Also, quit name calling.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

dubber deux said:


> Didn't you read what I stated.
> 
> I stated that maybe they will be FORCED to offer a couple more or so (on 101) due to must carry .


Highly unlikely that they will compress more to stuff them on 101. If anything they will be put on 99/103 in mpeg4.

You started this thread stating that you saw additional compression artifacting on your locals. Now your saying that they MAY be forced to crank up the compression at some future point in time.

Which is it? You are seeing additional compression now, or are you somehow seeing additional compression that hasn't happened yet?

Tell you what.

Stop calling people names.
Stop quoting yourself for self gratification.
Stop rambling like a crazy man.

Then, and maybe then, there might be a chance for civil conversation.


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

Perhaps D* is ramping up or making adjustments (which might result in increased compression) in anticipation of these required additions.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

dubber deux said:


> Perhaps D* is ramping up or making adjustments (which might result in increased compression) in anticipation of these required additions.


Nope.


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

omg that is so ludicrous is actually saddening.


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

RobertE said:


> Nope.


OK, tell me how you know this to be a certainity?


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

dubber deux said:


> OK, tell me how you know this to be a certainity?


I'm not at liberty to disclose how I know what I know. I can say that you have been wrong, are wrong now, and continue to be wrong.

With a tiny bit of research you can find a great deal of information as to what channels are on what transponders. Some of which is right here in the Information, tips and resources sub forum.


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

RobertE said:


> I'm not at liberty to disclose how I know what I know.
> .


So it would appear that your statements are likely just mere personal opinion. Correct?


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## Canis Lupus (Oct 16, 2006)

dubber deux said:


> So it would appear that your statements are likely just mere personal opinion. Correct?


No.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

dubber deux said:


> So it would appear that your statements are likely just mere personal opinion. Correct?


Bzzzzzt. Wrong answer. No prize for you.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

dubber deux said:


> So it would appear that your statements are likely just mere personal opinion. Correct?


Saying one is not at liberty to discuss something usually indicates a legality reason...not that they're making stuff up. :nono2:


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

trade secrets and private info are just that, and don't expect him to call you to explain it.


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

> I noticed over the past two weeks or three that the SD spot beam channels (locals) have an increased amount of pixelization compared to just a month ago. It is definitely noticable when there is significant movement . All the locals are demonstrating this effect. My signal is good and the conus channels look pretty much the same as always, which is ok.
> 
> I am wondering if D* had increased the compression on spot beam channels to increase their offerings of more locals in other areas?
> 
> ...


Trying to keep the thread on topic for other viewers.


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

nope, trying to make people not see how wrong you've been shown to be.
nothing like reqouting yourself to try to throw people off.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

dubber deux said:


> Trying to keep the thread on topic for other viewers.


Most people know how a forum works ...read the thread title and original post, first. No one is going to jump to, let's say page 6, and not know what the topic is.


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

Often times people will simply click on the last page of a thread.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

dubber deux said:


> Often times people will simply click on the last page of a thread.


But they still see the topic.


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

sigma1914 said:


> But they still see the topic.


shhhh..don't shatter the illusions...


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

sigma1914 said:


> But they still see the topic.


Just not all the details of it. :lol:


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

Only an idiot would post a reply to something they didn't read...


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

dubber deux said:


> Just not all the details of it. :lol:


Then they'd read the 1st post...


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

This has GOT to be the silliest thread in a long time. :nono:


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

LameLefty said:


> This has GOT to be the silliest thread in a long time. :nono:


 eh, it has a fair amount of competition lately...


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

OK folks .. Couple of things here ..

(1) If you are not in the Greenville-Spartanburg DMA, then let's just move along. There's probably no point in even commenting in this thread at this point.

(2) My Dad lives in the Greenville-Spartanburg DMA (Mountains of NC which is where I grew up) and has only SD DIRECTV service. I asked him a couple of days ago and said specifically "I have not noticed any change, but will pay particular attention to any differences over the next couple of weeks and let you know."

So, point #2 tells me that at a minimum, it's not so bad that it has even raised an eyebrow with my parents. Still, that doesn't mean things haven't changed. What I do know is that DIRECTV handles things like this in a particular way and that is by reports through the normal CSR route.


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

Doug....

Thanks for your response.

I would definitely say that the change occured over the past say three weeks or so. I wouldn't say it is major but it is noticable.

I have a very good eye for detail and having been in the business (worked for a major market NBC affiliate in master control some years ago) tends to make you very sensitive to any picture quality degradations...My job demanded that I report such issues to our engineering department back then! 


Thanks again.


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## ndole (Aug 26, 2009)

WOW. I just got done [reading] this agonizing terrible thread. Somehow it kept my interest, the same way that Jerry Springer does.








Sometimes I just love to see someone get their deserved lumps. What a bunch of BS from the OP. Seriously? If you want to talk directly to engineering, get on www.forums.directv.com and go to the INSTALLER ONLY section. Post something titled val_installs and talk Directly to Val Allen, the head of Directv's installation service and support department. NOT hard to figure out. There you can find out ANY technical D* information about compression.. etc.
Secondly, Get over yourself! :beatdeadhorse:
How one person can go ON and ON about something so obviously redundant is beyond my understanding.
Have there recently [in the last year] been problems with the LiL's?.. YES! Especially the HD LiL's, Not like you'd know anything about those.
But let me TELL YOU SOME INSIDE INFO: It's a known D* issue. Which means that some poor (contractor) HSP [Mine] had to compile thousands of field cases illustrating that there was a non-isolated D* problem.
So there! They're working on it!
If that's not good enough, then LEAVE. E* isn't much better. Goodbye.


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

ndole_mbnd said:


> Sometimes I just love to see someone get their deserved lumps. What a bunch of BS from the OP.


As a paying customer in good standing with a long term contract I am stunned by abuse I'm receiving simply because I am trying to bring an issue to the attention of D*. It is clear in numerous posts that many customers including myself have no luck whatsoever dealing with the CSRs and problem solving chain that they provide. It's OBVIOUS THAT IT IS BROKEN!!!!!

I believe it doing whatever it takes to get the job done. A call directly to D* engineering, why not? A CMRRR snail mail to the new CEO, absolutely!


> Seriously? If you want to talk directly to engineering, get on www.forums.directv.com and go to the INSTALLER ONLY section. Post something titled val_installs and talk Directly to Val Allen, the head of Directv's installation service and support department.


Why would I talk to someone that handles customer site issues? 


> How one person can go ON and ON about something so obviously redundant is beyond my understanding.


Problem is that others are indicating they see the same thing as well.


> Have there recently [in the last year] been problems with the LiL's?.. YES! Especially the HD LiL's, Not like you'd know anything about those.
> But let me TELL YOU SOME INSIDE INFO: It's a known D* issue. Which means that some poor (contractor) HSP [Mine] had to compile thousands of field cases illustrating that there was a non-isolated D* problem.
> So there! They're working on it!
> .


I have great sympathy for the installers , it's pathetic that D* knows of headend issues (uplinks, backhauls, ect) and still makes installers and the like play "lets put the blame here".

*..At D* Our goal is TOTAL customer satisfaction...." *


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## ndole (Aug 26, 2009)

dubber deux said:


> As a paying customer in good standing with a long term contract I am stunned by abuse I'm receiving simply because I am trying to bring an issue to the attention of D*. It is clear in numerous posts that many customers including myself have no luck whatsoever dealing with the CSRs and problem solving chain that they provide. It's OBVIOUS THAT IT IS BROKEN!!!!!
> 
> I believe it doing whatever it takes to get the job done. A call directly to D* engineering, why not? A CMRRR snail mail to the new CEO, absolutely!
> 
> ...


You obviously don't know who D* ISS [Installation Service and Support] is. They're the direct link between technicians and engineers. Also, any one person that says, "Hey yeah, I've had local problems too" doesn't quantify any argument that you have. Any one system can have an isolated technical failure, and cause similar problems. IT'S JUST YOU. You probably just have a bad lnb, or something similarly simple and easy to fix. If you'd just swallow your pride (and suck on a lemon) and schedule a service call, it'd be resolved in about 10min.:bang


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

> It's JUST YOU!





mlyles said:


> I'm also in the Greenville market and I've noticed it too. It's been a long time since it was this bad.


No, it's not.

YOU said yourself just now that D* has had persistant LiL problems that are not customer site related.

It makes no sense that the LNB is the problem, since the signal is fine, and the problem only affects the spots, nothing else since others have confirmed seeing a similar problem, YOU have mentioned that ISS has also indicated the same.

That aside even if (oh god, I cringe thinking about it) if I did get D* service to come out it is going to be a mess.

When the craptastic outfit that came out to my place to do my basic install the guy refused to install a new dish and LNB, even though the existing unit was probably almost 10 years old, maybe more!!!!!! And I had paid 20$ for shipping and handling of the equipment! I politely asked the installer if he would at least install a NEW LNB since it was clear how old the existing one was, he still declined...After he sort of finished (left various pieces of siding on the ground and never replaced them.) He asked me for a phone book so he could order lunch!!!

It wasn't like the clown had to climb up to the roof to change it, because the location was on a pole, all he needed to do was walk over to it and change the LNB!

I called D* Customer No service and related the events. I asked them to have another installer come out and install a new LNB. No dice. I told her that they need to have a supervisor call me back because I would bet that the existing unit would fail soon after the 90 day warranty expired, this supervisor did agree that they would extend the warranty until Jan 1 2010. Even though I would have preferred that they install new equipment I agreed to the extended warranty because I thought that it would be an easier solution for all involved. 
The supervisor admitted that the installer was supposed to install a new LNB and dish! I said I'd like that extended warranty in writing because this is business and while giving one's word is nice having the proof in writing is best. She refused...."I can't do that, D* won't let us for legal reasons"..... Outrageous!

I can only imagine the fiasco that would occur if I try and have the idiots come out to look at something that is clearly not a problem at MY end. 
My guess is that if it ain't broken now it will be after they get done with it.

Can you see the pattern here?

D* drops the ball quite often, and then hands the mess to the customer.


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

so you expect engineers to call you back for a problem before you've even had a directv tech out to check things out.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Folks, I ask that this thread get back to polite conversation, and quickly. It's totally fine to complain about customer service. I get that they're not perfect. It's not appropriate to be rude to other people because of their opinions or the way they state them. 

Thank you.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

dubber deux said:


> As a paying customer in good standing with a long term contract I am stunned by abuse I'm receiving


I don't think you realize that *nobody* in this thread is representing DirecTV, and therefore *nobody* cares that you're a paying customer in god standing with a long term contract.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

So you have 3 options. First option is learn to live with this "problem" you have. Second option is order HD and have HD locals. Third cancel and go to a provider who will have engineers call you back.


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

Shades228 said:


> So you have 3 options. First option is learn to live with this "problem" you have. Second option is order HD and have HD locals. Third cancel and go to a provider who will have engineers call you back.


well allowing a directv technician to look at the issue there should be an option.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

David MacLeod said:


> well allowing a directv technician to look at the issue there should be an option.


He already did they told him nothing was wrong.


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

Shades228 said:


> He already did they told him nothing was wrong.


I must of misunderstood this then:


> I can only imagine the fiasco that would occur if I try and have the idiots come out to look at something that is clearly not a problem at MY end.
> My guess is that if it ain't broken now it will be after they get done with it.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

David MacLeod said:


> I must of misunderstood this then:


No I was just talking about how the original installer already told him the equipment was fine.

So I guess an option could be have a tech come out to close a SC for no reason but I would give the option of an eye exam first.


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## wilbur_the_goose (Aug 16, 2006)

Shades228 said:


> So you have 3 options. First option is learn to live with this "problem" you have. Second option is order HD and have HD locals. Third cancel and go to a provider who will have engineers call you back.


There is another option - get the signals from an antenna. The OP is a ham, so it should be easy for him.


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## HarleyD (Aug 31, 2006)

Translation...

I worked part-time weekends and holidays at Channel 3 in Cleveland as a swithcer in the control room during the local newscasts. The director told me what button to push and I pushed it. Remember the times when the anchor did a lead in for a clip on a big story and then a still frame came up on the screen for 5 seconds that said "VTR-1"? That was me!



dubber deux said:


> Doug....
> 
> Thanks for your response.
> 
> ...


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

OK, last warning. 

I understand how much fun it must be to take pot shots at the thread starter and others who are having problems. 

I personally think this thread has run its course, but I'll leave it open for now to encourage productive conversation. However, if the only posts from here on are insults directed at other forum members, this thread will be closed, and infractions will be issued.


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