# New Vip612 Problem with HDCP and HDMI



## Rogernet

Hi...I need to vent a little...and finally joined this forum today. I would appreciate any help on this issue...can't believe I am the only one with this problem....

Current Setup: Sony HDTV...New Bravia Model KDL52W4100 - installed 12/08
Reciever... Dish Network Vip612 Current Firmware: L603
Interface: HDMI cable from Vip612 to Sony HDMI port 4

Problem: No problems until sometime after 7/14/09. I was able to
Order any PPV movies and DVR them. Second reciever
is a Vip211...again no problem ordering and viewing PPV,
HBO or anything else. Then last week 7/29/09, I go to
order a PPV movie...then a Dish Error message 890 comes
out of nowhere...saying the Vip612 has determined that my
new SONY which was working fine...is not HDMI/HDCP
compatible anymore Tried resets....unplugged 
everything...different portssame problem. Tried different
HDMI cables

The last few days I have spoke to both SONY and Dish. The SONY tech said that all their HDTVs are HDCP compliant....they don't even have any 
menu switch to turn it off. Their only solutions: try the cold start on the receiver with the plug out and if that doesn't work go to Component green/blue/red inputs....still no luck. I called Dish twice....finally got to talk to a second level tech.....they had me check some hard drive values and we got a 17 on #4 and a -2 on #7 which he didn't like....so he sent me a new Vip612 which I got Friday and installed and activitated myself....still same problem.....called them back and had them dispatch a tech installer who came today....they verified I had a good install and they also encountered the same HDCP 890 error message when we tried to order a PPV. He called DISH for a solution/workaround. We went back to the Component GBR connection...but this time, we pulled out the HDMI cable to the SONY...and guess what? We could now order a PPV like I used to be able two weeks ago with the HDMI setup. We even tested the Vip211 on this setup to be sure the HDMI cables were good....So clearly the firmware Vip612 version L603 was updated and downloaded sometime over the past two weeks at the 3:00 a.m. timeframe and some type of new bug came with it....has to be it....The Dish Installer said that DISH would check this out and send me an "email" by next Wednesday on status...but for now, the only way I can order and see a movie on my Vip612 is Component GBR with HDMI cable out of the receiver.....a very awkward workaround for the $$ I pay DISH to rent this piece of junk.

This really sucks! I am very upset with DISH and the dummies who invented the worthless HDCP with HDMI. I have been a loyal Dish Network customer since 1997 and have spent a lot of $$ over the years with them...I guess I'm going to have to consider cable if I want this type of entertainment or just turn the damn thing off.... 

Has anyone else encountered this problem recently? (Mar-August, 2009) I would like to hear from you...thanks!


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## Maxfli500

I have something very similar going on my 622. PPV has always worked Fine, now I get the HDCP error. Will have to see if works with the HDMI pulled.


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## Stewart Vernon

I wonder which end truly has the problem... the Dish receiver, the TV, or if it is just another of the handshaking glitches with HDMI.

I don't have my 622 hooked to an HDTV... My 722 is, via HDMI, and I haven't had any problems and I'm sure I've ordered at least one PPV recently because when I got my new HDTV recently I wanted to test the 24p PPV movie.


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## ret44k2

I have the same DVR and the same model TV only 46" with exactly the same problem - Dish has informed me that on 7/29 they activated HDCP and that it should not bother with new equipment and HDMI cables.
Hav emade a couple of calls to Dish without success but am still trying - I am NOT going back to component cables. Will advise when have more info - just know your not alone


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## Rogernet

It's a week later from my initial vent....and here's a status update....DISH never called me back or sent me an email....which didn't surprise me. The problem is still there. I called them yesterday, 8/7, and was told by the help desk....they are still "looking into the matter". I also called the DISH installer manager (don-Lors electronics) out of Livonia, Michigan...to confirm they also felt the problem was not hardware and spoke to their senior tech who has been there for 10 years. He said this type of problem is common with DISH....something will show up overnight......then disappear just as suddenly weeks or months later...with no notice from DISH. It hurts their business to dispatch techs needlessly to confirm that it isn't a hardware problem, and they are frustrated too. The only other interesting fact I discovered this week....while I still cannot order PPV via HDMI with this 890 problem, I can order VOD (Video on Demand) Channel 501, but maybe that makes sense, since you are renting a movie for 24 hours, and cannot DVR VODs...thanks to those who have responded this week.


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## des627

MY FIRST POST!

I too had the same issue with a SANYO 42" model. I called both Dishnetwork and Sanyo. Sanyo told me they were not going to be upgrading their units nor did they have any plans to install HDCP compliance into their tvs. That sealed the deal for me. Luckily I was in my time period to return the TV to Walmart. I traded up to a Vizio after some research on the units available with HDCP. I got the Vizio VO420E (sub $700 unit). It has 3 HDMI ports that are all HDCP compliant.

I got it home and installed and no more error message. In fact I also used to get a 1-2 second black delay when I would skip forward/backward on recorded events. That too is gone. But now I have a new problem.

I downloaded a HD movie and an HD on demand tv show. both downloaded fine, but the screen is black and no audio. I can pause, skip, whatever, even get show info but no video/audio. I am perplexed. I have not called Dishnetwork yet. And I know my HDMI cable is good, because everything else works fine, I can play regular HD content and as well as on demand (non-HD) television shows. Just nothing with the HD ondemand has video or audio.
If anyone else has experienced this then please tell me if you have got a fix for it.

Thanks,
David


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## Tulsa1

You may have downloaded a 1080P/24 movie and your display can't handle 1080P/24.
Just a guess


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## des627

Okay, so I was reading somewhere online about similar issues on a Comcast box. I figured I can atleast try this. It said that you should connect your Component cable, then disconnect your HDMI. Restart the Receiver, and start your movie. If you see the movie, then simply unplug the component and plug in your HDMI cable. It will now play. I tried this and would you believe it I can watch and hear the movies and shows without problem. BUT... I am not happy with this solution. It is a fix, I can live with till Dish gets the problem fixed. I have to do that cable switching each time that I want to play a new downloaded movie. I plan to communicate this with Dish Network and see what they say. I will try and talk to someone up the chain so it is actually looked at and not just logged in the computer as a work around. I think that most of the cable/sat companies are having problems with this HDCP, but I guess we will see.


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## mattcar

I have the exact same television and problem. please post if you find an answer, i'll do the same


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## tsanders3

There is a new software update out for the VIP612. I have not got it yet but I wonder if it fixes this issue?


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## Rogernet

Since I started this thread, I thought I've give you a two month "progress" update on my problem which started on 7/29/09. Still nothing from Dish....they won't admit anything....that they are using an old or buggy version of HDCP software protocol. The only thing I've noticed in the past two weeks is that the problem is now worse. I used to be able to get the VOD channels 501 movies with my HDMI cable on my new SONY BRAVIA, without the HDCP message "890" message. About 2 weeks ago, I started to get the 890 message and no movies with going back to Component RGB cables. So no PPVs at all now with HDMI technology. Like many of you that have commented on this problem, I refuse to go to "old technology" RGB to see movies, I used to see with HDMI before their VIP612 software change in July.
I just won't order any PPVs anymore....Now if everyone would just do this, I think, they might lose just enough revenue so they might finally find somebody who knows something about HDCP protocol and implement the right one for us. Thanks for your comments and tips...nice to know I'm not alone....


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## Rogernet

It's now 11/22, almost 4 months since I first reported this problem to DISH on 7/29/09......I was hoping that the HDCP problem would end with the upgrade of the VIP612 firmware to L606 recently ......However, I still get the 890 error message when I try to order PPV or VOD movies. No call backs or help from DISH.....I have given up on them almost completely now.....I even sent a polite note to DISH CEO Charlie Ergen([email protected]) and not even a reply return note.....My DISH VIP612 still thinks my new SONY Bravia does not support HDCP protocol which is absolutely not true per SONY. The only good news is that I've saved a sizeable chunck of dollars by refusing to order any movies from DISH...It's almost cheaper to wait and get the movies I want to keep from discount video stores. Again I will not use RGB component video cables as des627 suggests, but thanks for the suggestion anyway. I am staying with my HDMI cable period.... 

I did note that my other (non-DVR) receiver a VIP211 is designated as primary receiver and the VIP612 is secondary when I logon to get my setup on my Dish Account. The older TV on that receiver is definitely not HDCP since we only use it for SD. I doubt this would make any difference, but for those of you with this same problem....let me know if you have another receiver in your setup which is designated primary but not an HDTV.

Also, I am curious if anyone knows how to reset the VIP612 HDCP bit externally once it has been flagged for the 890 error. Thanks again to all.


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## samsmith

The Bravia actually does support HDCP, this is actually a problem with dish receivers, The workaround is to disconnect the HDMI or DVI cable completely and use YPrPb instead. I was told that this fix requires a software update which should be done very soon.


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## dragon342

samsmith said:


> The Bravia actually does support HDCP, this is actually a problem with dish receivers, The workaround is to disconnect the HDMI or DVI cable completely and use YPrPb instead. I was told that this fix requires a software update which should be done very soon.


Is it for all vip series rcvrs??


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## samsmith

dragon342 said:


> Is it for all vip series rcvrs??


Yes!!


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## Jim5506

No problems with my 211K with EHD on a Sony Bravia.


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## samsmith

Jim5506 said:


> No problems with my 211K with EHD on a Sony Bravia.


May not be always, But at times


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## Jim5506

Never!


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## Jpriest007

I have a Sony KDL-40Z5100, I have it hooked up with a Monster Cable HDMI, the best one you could buy at Best buy. I got the TV in the first week of July. I got Dish around the second week. To replace over priced cable, never could afford PPV from cable company. So I thought Dish would be better. And it was at first, the first PPV movie worked great. I did not try to order any more till about the end of the month due time constraints. When I did I got the message that either my TV or the connection to it was not HDCP compliant. Called Dish got someone that spoke English as a third language. Took almost 15 minutes to get some one that spoke English they then asked for the type of TV I had. When I told them the model they said they had alot of problems with this model. Then told me there was nothing they could do and then hung up. Called back later again got non-English speaking person. They transferred me to another.They asked for TV model I told them a phony number, they then said "Oh yes that is the model we have the most trouble with." When I told them that was a phony number they said I was lying because they were looking at it online. The model number I gave them was HEL-Pkkkk. So all I know is that I can't order PPV, VOD and that Dish staffs their call center with Non-English speaking third world people.
I have the Vip612


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## TulsaOK

So, did you try any trouble shooting? Probably not a good idea to lie to the people you're calling for help.


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## SaltiDawg

Jpriest007 said:


> I have a Sony KDL-40Z5100, I have it hooked up with a Monster Cable HDMI, the best one you could buy at Best buy. ... So all I know is that I can't order PPV, VOD and that Dish staffs their call center with Non-English speaking third world people. ...


One other thing you'll know now.

Your Monster (brand) HDMI cable was not necessarily the *best* one you could buy at "Best buy" (sic), however it was the *most expensive* and most hyped by the sales staff.


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## olguy

SaltiDawg said:


> One other thing you'll know now.
> 
> Your Monster (brand) HDMI cable was not necessarily the *best* one you could buy at "Best buy" (sic), however it was the *most expensive* and most hyped by the sales staff.


Surely you jest. You mean those cheap a** lil cables I got from monoprice are really and truly just as good as "the best one you could buy at Best buy (sic)"?


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## Jpriest007

The cable was not my first choice. I was going to buy the cheap cable but they did not have one long enough. And the cheap cables don't work either. I tried the cable from my PS3, its some off brand called Dnex. It did not work either. Oh and by the way when I told them the different model number was while I was on the phone with Sony support. I told the Sony rep that I gave them a phony model number, and what Dish reply was. Sony Rep said Dish rep's are not tech smart.


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## puckwithahalo

Jpriest007 said:


> I have a Sony KDL-40Z5100, I have it hooked up with a Monster Cable HDMI, the best one you could buy at Best buy. I got the TV in the first week of July. I got Dish around the second week. To replace over priced cable, never could afford PPV from cable company. So I thought Dish would be better. And it was at first, the first PPV movie worked great. I did not try to order any more till about the end of the month due time constraints. When I did I got the message that either my TV or the connection to it was not HDCP compliant. Called Dish got someone that spoke English as a third language. Took almost 15 minutes to get some one that spoke English they then asked for the type of TV I had. When I told them the model they said they had alot of problems with this model. Then told me there was nothing they could do and then hung up. Called back later again got non-English speaking person. They transferred me to another.They asked for TV model I told them a phony number, they then said "Oh yes that is the model we have the most trouble with." When I told them that was a phony number they said I was lying because they were looking at it online. The model number I gave them was HEL-Pkkkk. So all I know is that I can't order PPV, VOD and that Dish staffs their call center with Non-English speaking third world people.
> I have the Vip612


There are known issues with certain model Sony tv's registering as non-hdcp compliant when they are compliant. Its been narrowed down to a software issue, but whether it is on E*'s side or Sony's, I couldn't tell you.


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## Rogernet

It's me again...the guy that started this issue string last August.....I still have the DISH VIP612 HCDP problem with my SONY KDL-52W4100 which I still love. I spoke to the SONY help desk a few days ago as a suggestion from the VideoOnly rep where I bought the the HDTV in November of 2008...SONY confirmed that my HDTV had an older version of firmware which came out in March of 2008.....The current version for SONY has a March 2009 date and may have updates that might help with the HDCP incompatibility issue with DISH. They are sending me the firmware upgrade which is plugged into the USB port on the back of the HDTV....and we'll see if this makes any difference. If not, I will call DISH, tell them that SONY had done everything they can do. If it doesn't then I'm calling DISH, and requesting a no cost upgrade to a VIP 712 or 722 which they will install free. If they say no, then hello DIRRECT or cable TV.....I'll keep you posted...


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## GrumpyBear

Rogernet said:


> It's me again...the guy that started this issue string last August.....I still have the DISH VIP612 HCDP problem with my SONY KDL-52W4100 which I still love. I spoke to the SONY help desk a few days ago as a suggestion from the VideoOnly rep where I bought the the HDTV in November of 2008...SONY confirmed that my HDTV had an older version of firmware which came out in March of 2008.....The current version for SONY has a March 2009 date and may have updates that might help with the HDCP incompatibility issue with DISH. They are sending me the firmware upgrade which is plugged into the USB port on the back of the HDTV....and we'll see if this makes any difference. If not, I will call DISH, tell them that SONY had done everything they can do. If it doesn't then I'm calling DISH, and requesting a no cost upgrade to a VIP 712 or 722 which they will install free. If they say no, then hello DIRRECT or cable TV.....I'll keep you posted...


I hope you get it resolved. What is cool about today's technology is being able to update it like this. In the past, once Sony informed you that your firmware was out of date, and made before they fixed HDCP issues, you would have just been screwed.
Sony Movie Studio's and all the others should be shot over HDCP and all other forms of so called Protection of thier Greedy ways.


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## SaltiDawg

Jpriest007 said:


> The cable was not my first choice. I was going to buy the cheap cable but they did not have one long enough. And the cheap cables don't work either ...


And, again, you now know that the Monster brand cable is not better performing and you simply paid for the most expensive cable. :lol:


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## ret44k2

I purchased my Sony Bravia in Dec of '09 so I'm not holding out hope for the Sony firmware upgrade but I await your post as I'm not sure of the firmware revison. Since my post I have tested with the HDMI cable removed and the RGB installed and I was able to to do PPV just fine. However I refuse to give any more money to Dish until they resolve the issue.


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## Rogernet

Hi......to all of you that have been suffering this problem since last July. DISH has indicated they have isolated the HDCP problem with SONY and other HDTVs and a fix should be available within 2 months. They have successfully tested it with a Beta version, per a very good Dish Technical
expert who actually called me back this evening after I escalated through the standard DISH Help Desk process. This is the first time that anyone from DISH has ever called me back and offered to work with me to solve the problem.....I volunteered to further beta test the fix if they wanted me to.
The DISH Tech also suggested a receiver upgrade to a VIP722 for those who do not wish to wait any longer.....not sure if it would be no cost or not to go from a 612 to a 722, but you can ask. The other option is to pull your HDMI cable and spend $$ and time to go back to old RGB cable quality.

As I mentioned last week, I requested that SONY send me their latest firmware which I installed on Saturday, 1-9-10, to be sure I was at the most current level for most Bravia Models BR2-BR7s. They will send you a plug-in for your USB port which takes only 5 minutes to upgrade. (Release is FE-01.96-BE-1.429C which first came out of March of 2009). This is optional but a good idea if you bought your set before last March like me. 

I will keep you posted on this....not sure if the fix will be in firmware L607 or L608. For now, I will keep my VIP612, save a few $$ by not ordering any PPVs or VODs for the next few months.....Don't let anyone at DISH tell you that you must have to go back to old technology RGB cables to see the PPVs on HDTVs like SONY.


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## olguy

Rogernet said:


> Hi......to all of you that have been suffering this problem since last July. DISH has indicated they have isolated the HDCP problem with SONY and other HDTVs and a fix should be available within 2 months.


Sure hope when they fix your Sony problem they don't break my Toshiba HDCP. Sometimes their fixes seem like 1 step forward and 2 steps back.


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## wlrogalski

Any more updates on this, like software release? I have a 40 Sony and the same issue with my 612. Current software I have is 606. I have had no luck from Dish trying to get this resolved, acting like they have no idea and it is my TV.


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## Jpriest007

Rogernet said:


> Hi......to all of you that have been suffering this problem since last July. DISH has indicated they have isolated the HDCP problem with SONY and other HDTVs and a fix should be available within 2 months. They have successfully tested it with a Beta version, per a very good Dish Technical
> expert who actually called me back this evening after I escalated through the standard DISH Help Desk process. This is the first time that anyone from DISH has ever called me back and offered to work with me to solve the problem.....I volunteered to further beta test the fix if they wanted me to.
> The DISH Tech also suggested a receiver upgrade to a VIP722 for those who do not wish to wait any longer.....not sure if it would be no cost or not to go from a 612 to a 722, but you can ask. The other option is to pull your HDMI cable and spend $$ and time to go back to old RGB cable quality.
> 
> As I mentioned last week, I requested that SONY send me their latest firmware which I installed on Saturday, 1-9-10, to be sure I was at the most current level for most Bravia Models BR2-BR7s. They will send you a plug-in for your USB port which takes only 5 minutes to upgrade. (Release is FE-01.96-BE-1.429C which first came out of March of 2009). This is optional but a good idea if you bought your set before last March like me.
> 
> I will keep you posted on this....not sure if the fix will be in firmware L607 or L608. For now, I will keep my VIP612, save a few $$ by not ordering any PPVs or VODs for the next few months.....Don't let anyone at DISH tell you that you must have to go back to old technology RGB cables to see the PPVs on HDTVs like SONY.


Any news on the update?


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## Jpriest007

Yeah I usually go with the less expensive options. But I have seen my friend have to return 5 off brand cables that had the same defect. Two of them came from different stores. My other friend who is a professional "electronic geek" is the one who told us to go with Monster cable.


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## Jpriest007

Sometimes while watching a recorded program. Just after starting the picture has a distortion of green blocks across the screen. Has anyone seen this?


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## Rogernet

I suspect that the next firmware version L607 will have the HDCP fix for SONY and other HDTVs with this HDCP (890) incompatibility problem....just check your system info 6-1-3 on the Vip612......Hope it will be out by mid-March.

By the way, I just purchased a second SONY HDTV (KDL-40W5100) for the bedroom, and hooked up to the same VIP612 via the RGB video component output, and confirmed that if you unplug the HDMI cable to your first HDTV, you will be able to get standard PPV options for the second set if you cannot wait for the fix...with quality almost as good as HDMI. If you have a small enough HDTV with at least 120 hz refresh, it will come close on video. However, the separate audio (red/white or black) cable quality is not as good as HDMI. It is a pain to have to plug and unplug the HDMI to get PPV on the second set...so I still will not do it.


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## mark000001

I have the same HDCP problem with my new VIP612. It won't talk to my Yamaha V465 receiver. I just switched to DISH from Direct TV last weekend. I had no HDCP problems (or any technical problems at all) with the Direct TV satelite box.


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## 47HO

Why did you switch?


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## TulsaOK

*Please stay on topic.*


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## Jpriest007

I was on the phone this morning resolving a signal problem. While I was talking to the rep. I asked him if there was any news on the fix our problem. He checked with the tech dept. , they told him a fix is being worked on but is not ready. They said it might be ready in the next couple of weeks.

I liked this rep, when he said that he couldn't understand why Dish has not resolved this problem sooner. Since it causes them to lose money.


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## fryguy503

There are no Formal KPI's ( known Product issues ) for the rcvrs, now that doesnt mean they dont know about and are not fixing it. Thats why most CSR/TSR dont know anything and blame the tv's. I always suggest a hard reset of both the tv and the rcvr, then power the tv back on first. That has fixed some sony issues but not all.

I personally used component and TOSlink for my system just to avoid any hdcp issues.


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## tincan

I just switched from cable to Dish Net and it seems I am having a simular problem. I have the VIP 722 in one room and the 612 in the other. The problem is with the 612. I switched from the RCA cables to HDMI to my new Phillips. My problem is the 612 is always freezing up. I will hit my remote and sometimes the 612 will freeze or it will take two to three mins for the channell to change. then sometimes it will work normally for awhile say two hours or so.. Any ideas on this problem???????


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## Jpriest007

Has anybody heard anything from Dish about this problem lately?


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## Rogernet

Hi.......It's been a few months since my last update on this topic. As most of you are aware, the "fix" for the HDCP Error message 890 for SONY and other HDTVs is due out with the next firmware release L607. My tech contact at DISH was not available today to answer my question on when this release will be out....Last conversation, he estimated by mid-March....and it's now a more than a month over his estimate......I left him my cell number and hope he will call me back soon. I will post any updates as soon as I hear....
It's now been 9 months since this problem started....I guess we are all at the mercy of DISH again!


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## crockett_18

I have the same problem with a Dish 211 receiver with PPV. No use calling, since there is a problem, out of curiosity what is the current firmware for dish ??


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## lakeski

Rogeret...I have been patiently awaiting the Dish update...It is hard to waste a 52" Sony HD TV with no VOD or HD Content to rent (instead of purchase). I did a little looking myself and looked at the three different combinations of TVs and receivers...My 612 and a 32" HD LG (4 years old) works...My 612 on my bedroom Sony 40" HD (2 years old) doesn't work, and neither does my Sony 52" HD (9/09). Our 722 works on everything...

Having said that...when doing an analysis on the HDMI (Install/Connections) it shows that it sees that I am connected by a HDMI, the manufacture date of the TV, size, etc, but the HDCP is doesn't connect (0/33) tries... There is a HDMI reset button, but it is grayed out...

I tried talking to the Indian Customer service, but got the composit fix..waited to talk to an english speaking person in the United States their solution was send me a new receiver...same problem...

Awaiting your solution...good luck

My last update was D607...


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## Jpriest007

Mine still says L606 does anyone have L 607?


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## crockett_18

I am still on L528, I checked the menu I can't seem to find the software update. I know on my old receiver you could.


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## lakeski

Sorry...meant L6.06 and still waiting


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## Rogernet

As of 5/13/10, the Vip612 receivers are still running L606. For the newbies on Dish, just punch option 6-1-3 on your menu button on the remote, and look at line d Software. If you move to Next on that window....the second window will show you whether HDCP in enabled or not.......For most of us SONY folks and some other HDTV mfgs, this shows a big fat "No", since L606 showed up about 7-29-09. If you go back to the first 6-1-3 menu and hit Details, you can also read your receiver health Values as you scroll down from 0 to 9. Most should read a value of 0. If you get high negative or positive values, keep a record of them for you next chat with a Dish Tech....don't bother with the help desk guys. They don't have a clue what you are talking about......

About the fix.......I did get a voice mail about 5-1-10 from my internal Dish tech who apologized for the delay.....He called his HCDP fix engineer and tried to get us a release date without success. I did call him back tonight to confirm that the fix is still going to be packaged with L607...so that when it comes out, the fix should be there for us. Just keep looking for it on Menu 6-1-3.....not sure about other Dish receivers and this HDCP problem....If you can't wait, upgrade to a Vip722 or go to composite video RGB cables, but be sure to unplug your HDMI cable when you do. I've tested this on both my SONYs...and it works for VOD or PPV channels...but the quality is not HDMI.


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## Rogernet

I just received a voice mail on my cell phone from my internal Dish Tech Support contact (5/16/10 AM). The long-awaited fix for HDCP incompatibility messages with SONY and some other HDTV manufacturers (error code 890), has been tested successfully in their beta test environment and is ready for release in the next firmware download to your VIP612 receiver, probably L607...or 08 or whatever is next. 

The very slow release of L607 apparently has to do with the priority of DISH engineering resources being dedicated to the new VIP922 receiver upgrades/fixes which just came out about 2 months ago. There might also be a few glitches with other maintenance fixes targeted for L607 according to my source. Again he apologized, but the Dish Engineering department is not releasing the L607 release date to Dish Tech Support either......so I guess we can all save a little more $$ on PPVs and VODs if you want to see them on DISH with HDMI.


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## Rogernet

Hi to all you HDCP fans.....I just spoke to my internal tech support contact at Dish, today, 5/25 at 17:00. Here's the latest: the fix for the HDCP Error (890) on various Sonys and other HDTVs will be deployed via a firmware download to VIP612s this Thursday, 5/27, to 100 selected Dish accounts, mostly internal, to check for the fix working and any other problems. If all goes well, the fix will be packaged as L608 and should be out two weeks or around June 10th for the rest of us. I volunteered to be a part of the 100 to test out the patch but no guarantee they will invite me. I'll keep you posted.


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## TulsaOK

Rogernet said:


> ...to check for the fix working and any other problems.


They do that?


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## Jpriest007

I just looked and saw that the new update is out. It is L 608. I just tried and was able to watch a VOD movie.


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## Rogernet

Good to hear that JPriest007, BJK, and a few others are lucky enough to be upgraded to L608 which apparently has solved the HDCP problem so we can now order/view PPVs and VODs with HDMI quality. The rest of us may have to wait a bit longer, but after 10 months of the L606 HDCP bug, what's a few more weeks. 

One thing I noticed while checking yesterday which you might try if you are still on L606 with this HDCP problem....Try to order a standard non-HD movie, like Channel 546, "Edge of Darkness". I was able to order it, view it, and DVR it successfully with my VIP612 still on release L606. We will need to wait until L608 to do this with HD quality movies.


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## wlrogalski

I have the updated 608...I still cannot use my HDMI ports with my Sony Bravia and the 622. They still reset every 5 seconds.


----------



## Rogernet

Hi!

I just spoke to my internal technical support contact at Dish. Here is what he told me. 

1. The VIP612 L608 firmware was downloaded in a limited deployment to
100,000 receivers (612s for sure, not sure about 622 or 722s) sometime
around May 27th. He previously said only 100 receivers were changed.

2. There were multiple fixes in this release including the HDCP 890
incompatibility message for SONY and other HDTVs.

3. There were some reports that at least one of the fixes was having 
problems. My contact said when he spoke to Engineering, they did
not believe it was the HDCP fix...but that some receivers with L608
were rebooting too frequently.

4. Those who currently have L608 will continue to have that release and 
those on L606 will gradually be given L608 as any bugs are fixed in the
field for the first 100,000.

5. He said another 100,000 receivers will be added to the first group but 
there was no date that Engineering would release to him. I asked to
have my receiver added to that group. He will contact me if he gets
any ETA for posting here to the rest of you that have been patiently
waiting with L606.


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## pwkirk

Thanks 
Rogernet for keeping us posted on this issue. I've searched the net looking for answers and finally came upon DBSTALK. I just joined and this is my firt post. I done so to thank you. Our receiver is vip211 and the software is L528. I must really be behind the times. I have been having the same problem or course, and now I'm really angry that I have don't even have the latest receiver. I've called Dish and they never hinted or wanted to know anything about the receiver. Probably because they didn't want me to know. If there is anything else that you might add that will benefit me please do so. Thanks again.


----------



## Rogernet

PWKirk,

Hmmmm.....I wasn't aware that the VIP211 receivers are also having HDCP compatibility problems. We also have a VIP211 receiver, but we use it as a low cost option (with no DVR) for our guest room. It is currently not even hooked up to an HDTV and does not have an HDMI cable. I just checked, and it is running on firmware L459 which is a different firmware level than you mentioned. I have been focused on the VIP612 and my HDMI connections
during this past year on my Sony HDTVs.

In your case, you might try the standard workaround if you want PPV or VOD movies now......unplug and pull off your HDMI cable between the VIP211 and your HDTV .....and use component RGB cables for now....it's not quite HDMI quality but it should work. I will check with my contact to determine if a similar HDCP/HDMI fix is in work for VIP211s....and which firmware level it is in.
You can check your current status for firmware from your menu button, option 6-1-3. Good luck!


----------



## ziusudra

Rogernet, have you an update?

I'm seeing this on the 612 with L609 over HDMI to a Sharp LC-42SB45UT. Haven't tried ... well, anything yet, other than a web search.


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## rimbaud76

My wife tried to rent "Shutter Island" today on the 32" Vizio LCD in our son's playroom and received the 890 HDCP error.

The tv is virtually new - just got it in December of last year although we never attempted to rent a PPV/VOD movie with this tv and the 612 before. We are connected via HDMI, so the connection is digital...just no HDCP. We have hardware version L609.

The receiver has been a little flaky since we got it...nowhere near as reliable as the 622 in the basement.

Anyone have any additional information on this? Thanks!


----------



## Rogernet

Thanks to those of you who have indicated a possible fix with version L609 to the HDCP Error message 890 problem I reported here almost a year ago on 7-29-09. It's been a few days since I checked to see if there had been any changes on my SONY HDTVs until late last night.....7-08-10

Wow, for the first time in a year, I can report that I now can order/view PPVs and VODs via my HDMI cable on my primary SONY Bravia HDTV with the
L609 Software which must have been downloaded over the past few days.....

For those still having problems with their VIP612 receiver and this HCDP problem on their HDTV, confirm your current version with the Menu...6-1-3 option to get your version number on the System Info Screen.....then select
NEXT....and check that both Your Digital Connection and HDCP options now both say "YES". If so, you should be able to order/view movies with HDMI with no HDCP error message 890. If not, check to see if you have an RGB hookup to a second HDTV or plugged into the VIP612 with nothing on the other end. I will contact my inside tech source and let him know about the 
report some problems surrounding L609 and this problem.

I noticed that, despite the fact I now can get past this problem on my primary SONY HDTV, I still get this HDCP error message on my secondary bedroom SONY HDTV which uses the RGB hookup not HDMI. I will do some additional testing today, and unplug the RGB hookup to that HDTV and change to HDMI to see if that fixes it...but then I would lose HDMI on my primary HDTV. 

Since there is only 1 HDMI output from the VIP612, does anyone know if there
is an HDMI splitter available so I can split the signal on separate cables to both of my HDTVs, and order PPVs on either?

On the bright side, I am estimating I saved around $1200 by refusing to order 
any PPVs or VODs while this problem was in work this past year. I learned that maybe I just don't need to see that much TV anyway....there were a lot of books and activities I enjoyed more......My thanks to all of you that have kept the pressure on DISH to get this fixed on the VIP612s.


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## SaltiDawg

Rogernet said:


> ...
> 
> On the bright side, I am estimating I saved around $1200 by refusing to order
> any PPVs or VODs while this problem was in work this past year. ...


Get Netflix and watch their Instant movies thru your Xbox, Wii, PS3, or PC.


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## Rogernet

I did some research on HDMI splitters to answer my own question above....and found mixed results. Some had good results with the cheaper passive splitters to convert the single VIP612 HDMI out into two HDMI signals or the slightly more expensive powered splitters which seem to have better results.....I don't need an HDMI switch, just the splitter, since I would never run both HDTVs at the same time due to their close proximity. I'd appreciate any other opinions from those who have used HDMI splitters successfully.

Right now I am inclined to get the $25 SEWELL HDMI 1x2 Splitter v1.3 (up to 1440p) which is powered.....ref: http://sewelldirect.com. Anybody with
experience on this model?

BTW...SaltiDawg. Thanks for your Netflix suggestion. During the DISH HDCP movie drought this past year....free HULU movies and TV was just fine on our large 25" HP Pavilion HDMI desktop monitors....We didn't need to see the most current movies that quickly...and waited until HBO or STARZ or ENCORE picked them up.


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## Grandude

Rogernet said:


> I'd appreciate any other opinions from those who have used HDMI splitters successfully.
> 
> Right now I am inclined to get the $25 SEWELL HDMI 1x2 Splitter v1.3 (up to 1440p) which is powered.....ref: http://sewelldirect.com. Anybody with
> experience on this model?


I have successfully used a similar splitter from Monoprice and have no problems with it. I did try to use two of them to split the HDMI to three destinations but that always failed. It was advertised to work that way but didn't. A 1x4 splitter was out of the question as the second split was at the end of a 30ft HDMI cable. I don't want to buy and run another 30ft cable but that would probably fix my problem.


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## warrrreagl

It's great to find this forum. I joined DISH for the first time last week, and attempted to hook up my new Pioneer surround-sound receiver this afternoon when I started getting the picture reset issue discussed in this thread. I have a Panasonic Viera plasma TV, and a model 612 DISH receiver.

When I hooked up the DISH straight to the TV, everything was perfect. When I hooked up the DISH receiver to the Pioneer receiver and tried to watch TV, the picture reset every few seconds. However, when I navigated to the setup screen for the Pioneer or tried to watch a DVD (bypassing the DISH receiver), the picture and sound were perfect.

I called the Pioneer tech support line, and the guy told me that the Pioneer receiver was not getting the HDCP protocol from the DISH receiver, and it would require either a firmware update or swap out the DISH receiver.

I called our local DISH installer, and he said the exact same thing. He told me that the glitch with the 612 was a well-known glitch, and DISH should allow me to swap out for a different receiver if I called the 800 number to officially schedule his tech visit.

However, when I called DISH, the lady told me they had no record of any such glitch or firmware updates for the model 612, and clearly the problem was in our Pioneer receiver. She said she could schedule the tech visit for free from our local installer, but if I changed receivers (I've only been a customer for one week now), then it would cost me $200. Is that accurate? That doesn't sound right if the receiver they picked for me isn't compatible with my setup.

Is it the DISH receiver or the TV itself giving me the problems?

What should I say to the DISH installer when he comes out on Friday afternoon?


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## warrrreagl

The problem is solved. The DISH installer came out this afternoon and we tried several scenarios. First, he took the 722 Dual Receiver out of one room and tried it where the 612 was, and the 722 worked perfectly with the Pioneer home theater receiver. No screen pops and resets. So, we knew the 722 worked with my setup. Next, he took the other 612 from a different room and tried it with the Pioneer, and we were back to the same screen pops and resets. So, all of that proved that my receiver wasn't bad, and that the 722 Dual would work. Since the 722 I already have has a pre-wired home run connection to another bedroom for the secondary TV, I couldn't just swap out the recievers with each other. It appeared that my only option was to upgrade to a new 722 in that room, which would cost $215 (unless I wanted to buy another home theater receiver, which I DEFINITELY did not want to do).

That's when my DISH installer got creative. He said he had some RCA high-end A/V cables in his truck, and he wanted to see what happened when we used them to connect the Pioneer to the 612. His thinking was the Pioneer was already connected to the TV with HDMI, so there was no reason to have an additional HDMI jumper from the Pioneer to the 612 when RCA cables would do the trick. And it worked perfectly!

I am back to surround sound, home theater, whole-house audio with all my original equipment. Thank you, DISH installer...


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## Rogernet

It's been a few weeks....Here is what I discovered on the HDCP L609 fix:

1. I spoke to my technical inside contact at DISH on July 20th. He said
he would contact Engineering to determine why a second SONY HDTV
hooked to the VIP612 via RGB would still have the HDCP 890 error 
message, when the primary SONY HDTV via HDMI does not. He
will contact me as soon as he hears back from them. He feels you 
should be able to order PPVs or VODs via HDMI or RGB on either HDTV.

2. HDMI Splitters: I did install the Sewell 1x2 powered splitter but 
had no success with it trying to split the HDMI signal from the 612 to
both SONY HDTVs. I could not get signal out of the box to either HDTV.
I sent it back and they bench tested it and it did ok with other HDMI
devices.....Their engineer had heard of other problems with DISH receivers
which tried to split signals passive or powered. We think that somehow
the VIP612 is smart enough to sense other non-standard devices and 
will cut off all signal going out via the HDMI output They are good folks
and will credit my splitter purchase.

It would be interesting if anyone else has had problems using splitters
with Vip612s and two or more HDTVs.


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## ANGEL64644

I have just finished my 3rd phone call to dish this morning. Thank you all for your info. When I called them I had info they were not counting on. I gave specifics on systems info and that HDCP was not on and that I knew that a fix had been applied to some customers and not others. The barely English speaking person informed me that no fix had been downloaded (which of course we know different) and that they are still working on it. This was after the two previous conversations telling us that our 1 month old TV was not compatabile. 
Again thanks for the info, at least I felt better having info to give them.


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## taurus6

Hi guys, I'm new to forum and have to say that the customer service people at Dish Network are horrible. I too have a Sony KDL40VL*** and get the 890 error with the VIP612 (L609). When I viewed the Menu/6/1/3/Next screen, it said there was a Digital Connection but HDCP was NO.

After speaking to a tech support guy at Sony, he suggested resetting the TV to factory default settings. I asked him if there were any user options to disable or change the HDCP settings on the TV and he said there was not. Anyway, since the Dish idiots were not helping the situation, I gave it a try. (insert magic word here) and the 612 says HDCP = YES. 

This may help some of you guys even though logically resetting something that a user cannot change seems pointless. Good luck.


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## SaltiDawg

taurus6 said:


> ....
> This may help some of you guys even though logically resetting something that a user cannot change seems pointless. Good luck.


So, resetting *your* TV to the default conditions corrects the problem and yet you feal the need to call the Dish Techs "idiots?" lol


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## taurus6

Well I guess if there is no way for a user to change a setting, then there would be no reason to reset a setting that cannot be changed. So if that logic makes me an idiot then I suppose I am one. 

Anyway, I did not actually order the PPV after getting the 612 to recognize that the Sony was HDCP since I could not watch it this morning. The bad news is that when I tried to actually order the PPV tonight, it still fails with the 890 error. Now, I'm an idiot that is really pissed. On one hand the receiver says HDCP = Yes, on the other it says I can't order PPV because the TV is not HDCP compliant. Go figure that crap.

Dish Network wants $200 to upgrade to the 722. They don't care if i leave after 1 month of service and that they will not make any profit from me. I suppose they are happy with the imaginary $400 they "believe" they will collect from me for cancelling.

Fortunately, I used a local company direct for the install and sale. According to him, Dish will back charge him $1000 if I cancel. He said he will eat the cost for the 722 if that will work to save the cancellation fee. Can anyone confirm that the 722 will work when the 612 would not. Thanks.


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## Rogernet

Sorry guys....I've been out this past week and found it interesting that at least one of you was able to avoid the dreaded HDCP 890 message to disappear with a change to factory default settings from Sony. I tried this last year with no results. Sony even sent me a firmare finger drive update for my SONY KDL52W4100 HDTV. Didn't solve the HDCP problem. I am absolutely convinced that this is a 100% DISH HDCP/HDTV problem based on my personal experience and what my inside DISH Tech told me earlier this year. Sony has nothing to do with this....it's a Vip612 problem....although there have been reports of it on VIp211ks and Vip622s. The problem is that DISH does not have a large enough HDTV test bed to try all their firmare fixes on specific models, Sony or otherwise. 

My theory is that DISH and SONY (and a few other HDTV manufacturers) are using different or incompatible versions of the HDCP protocol and handshaking is not complete so that the VIP612 thinks it's dealing with a non-HDCP device.... and that L608 and L609 and ..... is work in progress bandaid fix as complaints come in and they have time to work.

They also haven't enough engineers to test combinations on the Vip612 for both HDMI and RGB for the L609 firmware fix. Their priority now are the newer receivers and bugs....722...9xx. I still get the HDCP 890 message on my bedroom Sony KDL40W4100 Bravia HDTV which is hooked up via RGB. 

Try to unplug any devices on the RGB out of your Vip612 to see if the HDCP error message goes away on your primary SONY HDTV. See if that helps.

I plan to contact my DISH Tech insider later this week. I will have him review your notes on this DBS string to see if he and the Dish Engineers have
any other recommendations or status. I'll let you know.


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## taurus6

Ok, the plot thickens. According to Dish, my 612 must be connected to the Sony TV with component cables to avoid the 890 error. Although I will not keep the service if this is the only way I can watch PPVs, I wanted to give it a try. Yes, I can now order PPVs but I get a new error saying that my TV does not support the HD format (1080p), but I can order it in a resolution that matches my TV. What a piece of crap receiver. I will not watch 1080p movies in 1080i on my 1080p TV. The other great part is that Dish is billing me for a PPV that failed to let me order when connected via HDMI. I'll probably have to fight for a credit for that too.

The installing company is going to swap me with a 722 at no charge. They wanted me to try these other options so they could keep track of what may or may not work. I'll update when I get the 722 to let you guys know if it works.

I cannot believe that the only people having this issue are the few here on this forum. Dish should truly have a class-action suit filed against them. Especially for those people they forced to pay a cancellation fee when they realized that Dish cannot provide the services they advertise and switched to another provider.


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## SaltiDawg

taurus6 said:


> ...Yes, I can now order PPVs but I get a new error saying that my TV does not support the HD format (1080p), but I can order it in a resolution that matches my TV. What a piece of crap receiver. ...


In this situation it is not the TV nor the receiver that is lacking. It is your understanding of the formats that can be viewed with Component cables that is lacking. 

PS I think you'd be hard pressed to see a difference between 1080i and 1080p input to your 1080p. (I have a 1080p Sony Kuro plasma and I can not detect the difference.) Of course, YMMV.


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## taurus6

Hey Salti,

Well, trying the component cables was just out of curiosity. I was not going to be happy with them because I'm upgrading to a new Onkyo receiver that supports HDMI switching and 1080p upconverting so I need the HDMI. It's also sad that Dish wants me to compromise on the services I get from them and have such horrible attitudes towards their customers. I've spoken with 3-4 of them for a total of 3 hours on the phone and none of them were really concerned with customer satisfaction. They all had negative attitudes, insisted that my hardware is the cause of the problem, would not even consider letting me try a 722 without a $200 fee, and saying that maybe I should just not order PPVs. 

Anyway, for technical purposes, my installer swapped the 612 out for the 722 today and guess what? Everything works as expected so far. PPVs order properly without error (and in 1080p where appropriate). There definitely is something wrong with the 622 hardware/firmware or I just had another bad 622. Oh yeah, forgot to mention the first 2 put in were bad on the first day.


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## Rogernet

Hi Guys,

Here's an update from my inside contact at Dish Technical Support. Last week, their Engineering Department tried to reproduce my problem with the secondary Sony via RGB still getting the 890 HDCP message while my primary SONY via HDMI was not getting it and allows me to order PPV and VODs. I just checked again....both
HDTVs show: Digital Connection: Yes and HDCP: Yes, when you show the Menu 6-1-3 status second screen,
but still the 890 message on the secondary Sony Bravia when I try to order a PPV off of it.

They could not reproduce the problem, but my contact will try to do it himself and will ask them to do it again. I should have the results back by this Thursday, 8/19 and will let you know.

As to the dialog since my last status, I'm sorry for all the problems Taurus6 has had, having gone through this process myself for over a year....the vip612 is probably a poor choice for a first receiver nowadays. I do have agree with Saltidawg, that both Dish and Dirrect as well do not yet have widespread 1080p resolution available, although Dish will occasionally have it on selected movies. The 1080i interlaced is an easier and cheaper technology for them than the progressive scan 1080p. I'm not sure any human eye could discern 1080i vs 1080p. I do see (and hear) the difference between HDMI and RGB however. I think both DISH and Dirrect will need to step up to 1080p or higher resolutions when the demand for 3D movies HDTVs that can show them becomes affordable to most....The cost to deliver will be high for a while, just like at the neighborhood theaters.....


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## ducks4

As a newbie to this thread (and dbstalk), I think you guys have done a fine job in pinning the HDCP problem on Dish. 

I have a 622/Sony TV with the problem. Because I have a DVD player to use in this system and there's only one HDMI port on the TV, I will need a component video connection somewhere. I'd rather that be the DVD player but in truth my eyes don't see that much difference in picture quality so I can accept the compromise. 

I do believe the firmare update on my 622 is L627 - which doesn't seem right based on what I've read here (it still shows HDCP = NO) - any thoughts? And, an aside, is actual "Component Video Cable" going to make any real difference from the reasonably high grade audio/composite video cables I used to test things with?


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## Rogernet

The answer is yes to Ducks4.....We have had reports of the HDCP problem on DISH 622s and 211s receivers with Sony and other HDTVs if you review this thread from the beginning. We have been focused on my VIP612 since I started this string over a year ago....which started with firmware version L603....and is now at least partially fixed with L609. The VIP622 and 211s will also eventually have the "HDCP fix" applied to it....I will try to confirm with my inside contact if he knows when (maybe L628 or L629)......I was unable to reach him this week on some of his test progress on my issues. 

BTW...each DISH receiver has its own unique set of firmware upgrade numbers....that's why you see so many different number sets. Your VIP622 L627 does not have the HDCP fix yet.

Until then, if you want to order PPVs or VODs, you will need to use your RGB 
cables between your 622 and one of your Sony HDTV or DVD input ports. The other option is a VIP722
swap out....which thus far has not had the HDCP problems...but it will cost you more from what I've heard.

Important...you will need to unplug your HDMI cable from the 622 when you do this or you will get the HDCP message again. I was able to do this with my 612, but did not want to settle for RGB quality. This should work for your
622. Hope this helps.


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## MNipper

Re: the 622, and L629. "No joy" yet. I, too, have been following this thread since early on, as someone with a 622/Sony setup, and the first thing that I do with each no release (as with 629, several weeks back) is check to see if they've finally resolved their HDCP handshaking problems.

If someone does find out something about a future release, where this will be resolved on the 622, I hope that they will post that here.


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## ducks4

Thanks for the reply, Rogernet.

I was wrong with the version (or it was updated in the last few days) - my 622has L629. Alas, no HDCP fix.

I have both connections in place - Comp Video (TV Video input 4) and HDMI (Video input 6). For whatever reason, PPV movies show up no problem using Vid 4 and I still get the 890 message switching to Vid 6. PPV is fine when cycling back to Vid 4. FWIW, I purchased the movie on-line using a coupon, not via phone.

HDMI continues to work for other programming, so I suppose I can use the Component Video only for PPV and HDMI for other Dish programming.

Let's see now - one set of comp vid cables for PPV, another set of comp vid cables for my DVD player, the HDMI cable and the wireless network port extender with its power and ethernet cables. My wife's going to go nuts with all these cables. Maybe it's time to look again at DirectTV and whole house DVR - they've really simplified cabling with the DECA technology.


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## Adman98

Unfortunately, I am having the exact same problem (error 890) with a VIP722 from Dish. I've had the receiver for a couple of years and it worked fine on another HDTV. Problems with HDCP handshake started when I recently hooked a new Panasonic TV50G25 Plasma to the 722. 

Tried to order a PPV movie last night--got the 890--chatted with tech at Dish, they said it is a "software" problem their engineers have been working on for 2 months" and they have no idea when it will be resolved.

I am starting to really dislike Dish (after 10 years).


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## Wvand

I wish I would have seen this thread a long time ago. Story - new Panasonic G25, new 722 and new 612. Software is L6.09. The tv's (sony, sharp and panasonic) hooked to the 722 work fine. The Pansonic G25 hooked up to the 612 gets the 890 HDCP message. Dish evidently hasn't learned anything to date. The CS I first talked to said this is the first time this has happened. After many calls an advanced tech rep said it must be a faulty receiver and they are sending me another 612. This isn't going to fix it, is it?


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## Rogernet

It's been a few weeks, but I finally got through to my Technical Support inside contact at Dish this evening. Here is what he said:

1. The Error Message 890 HDCP problem with SONY and some other HDTVs
which was fixed for VIP612s is now being reviewed & tested by the
Engineering department for other receivers VIP211ks, VIP622s, and 
VIP722s. The Platform Product Manager has been notified and he was
given this DBStalk Blog String to follow the reports you have been posting.

2. At this time, there is no estimate from Engineering as to when they can
port the fix to other VIPxxx receivers with this problem. Hopefully, these
fixes will happen much sooner, now that the bug has been fixed for the
VIP612s with the L609 firmware release this past May.

3. For current VIP612 users with a second SONY HDTV hooked up via
RGB, the HDCP problem still is happening on the secondary HDTV.
My contact was unable to do some personal testing due to the lack 
of SONY TVs in his personal area. For now, at least you can order 
PPVs and VODs on your primary SONY...

My contact will call me if he hears any updates on fix estimates....If you do 
get a new firmare release for your receiver (Menu 6-1-3) check out if the HDCP problem is fixed on the next menu (HDCP=Yes).


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## Wvand

Update - received a different 612 today, hooked it up same as the last one, fired it up...............and HDCP says yes on the info screen. I haven't tried to rent a pay for view yet but it seems like it should work. Maybe I had a bad receiver after all. 

Rogernet - thank you for the all the work you have done on this issue. If it comes back, I'll let you know.

Wayne


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## loki

Hello, 

I am new here and I find myself in the same shoes as everyone else. I currently have a 2 VIP612 Receivers software L609 and for the first time today encountered the same issue with HDCP on both televisions after placing an order for PPV. After reading the posts on this thread, it didnt surprise me after working for them for three years. It really takes Dishnetwork a lot of effor to listen to their customers.

I currently have two Vizio TV's 42 inch and both had the same issues. I reviewed the specs on the televisions and both are HDCP compliant. Looking forward to a solution and willing to help where I can. I will see if I can get in touch with a few of my old tech friends and see what they are encountering in the field.


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## Rogernet

Sorry it's been a long time since I've had a chance to keep current this one. By now, most of you should have L640 firmware installed on your VIP612 which should solve your HDCP problem on your primary HDTV. It still doesn't correct my secondary HDTV which is hooked up through the RGB cable to my back bedroom....when you do a Menu 6-1-3 on it, it comes back HDCP: No..... but the primary hooked up through HDMI says HDCP: Yes.
My inside Dish Tech said it should work...but I haven't heard from him in months.....so my PPV and VODs are only available in my rec room....really poor
engineering here.

BTW....I had to replace my last VIP612 (3rd one) for a new one last month. We had a few power outages and my breaker blew a few times as well downstairs......Normally, I would just do a cold start reset from unplug and things would be ok....but this last time, the problem was I could get it to come up on my last channel....but as soon as I tried to go to another.....it would die...like the RAM was fried where it keeps track of channel history.
So I had to order a new one and install it myself. Does anyone know how to decode the 9 Value codes off the detail page from Menu 6-1-3? All the values on my new VIP612 are 0, except Value 3: 15 and Value 7: -2. Have no idea if my new reciever is AOK from these status codes.

Thanks!


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## [email protected] Network

HDCP is High-bandwidth *Digital* Content Protection. Component video is an analog source and therefore cannot be HDCP compliant. You mentioned the HDCP issue was fixed on the digital connection though, right?

I am still working on getting a master value list as I saw that this was on another thread as well. As I posted there, Value 7 : -2 is fine. Value 3 is an unknown and I am surprised that anyone RA'd anything previously (per one of your other posts) regarding either of those numbers. The values on some of them can be anything under 200 and still be nominal (receiver specific still). Trying to troubleshoot using those numbers is virtually impossible at this point, at least until I can get "the list".


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## wantland

I've got the HDCP handshke issue also. I've got the DVR hooked to a sony home theater system along with a sony dvd player and then to a Samsung HDTV. All connections are HDMI. My Software version is L640.

I just started Dish Network service about 1 week ago. Before that I had fttp service that provided my TV, internet and phone service. This was thru my local utility company and they used fiber STB's made by ADB. This setup worked fine as far as all equipment working/talking with each other. I dropped the TV service because they just couldn't seem to work out all the bugs and provide reliable service. So I know it's not the TV or the home theater HDMI switching. It's got to be the VIP 612.

Dish suggested I use RGB cables to which I say horse-hocky. Don't understand why they seem to be no hurry to fix this since they're losing revenue. I'll just stick to Netflix but will probably drop Dish when my 2 yr contract ends.


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## Rogernet

Wantland,

Sorry you are having problems with your DISH VIP612, Sony, and HDCP. This is where I was back in July of 2009. Just to be sure you have the same symtoms: When you order a PPV or VOD on your primary Sony via an HDMI cable.....you get a Dish Message #890....." The (VIP612) receiver has detected that the HD Television or digital connection to the TV does not support High-bandwith Digital Content Protection (HDCP)......."

You get this message even though all Sony HDTVs and all HDMI cables do support HDCP. Is this correct? Per my DISH deep throat tech support person last year, if you have followed this whole string.....it was finally corrected with firmware version L609 for SONY and many other HDTV mfgs in May, 2010. This version was then updated with L640 late last year. If it still isn't working for you....it's important that DISH know the model number of your SONY, especially if it is a new one. I have two SONY Bravias.....older models KDL40W5100 and KDL52W4100. It is possible that SONY has newer models that have a newer version of HDCP protocol which is not compatible with Dish's version for the VIP612, in which case SONY and Dish engineers need to have a conversation and DISH should add your HDTV model to its test bed for the next version of L64x. Make sure you have your nightly updates activated for 03:00 in case they have patched L640 for you when they fix it. For now, if you haven't already, unplug any other cables from your VIP612, like RGB, etc., so just the HDMI cable is there to your Sony. Then do a cold start after unplugging your power cord for about 1 minute.
Once you are up, do a Menu Sys Info 6-1-3. The next page should say: Digital Connection: Yes and HDCP: Yes. If so, you should be able to order PPV and VODs without the 890 message. If not, call Dish and insist on talking with a second level tech...give them the 890 message code and your Sony HDTV model number and pray they will test it to confirm and fix with their next L640 update. If you still get the runaround.....have fun with NETFLIXs, maybe they are cheaper anyway than DISH. Good Luck!


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## Rogernet

[email protected] Network said:


> HDCP is High-bandwidth *Digital* Content Protection. Component video is an analog source and therefore cannot be HDCP compliant. You mentioned the HDCP issue was fixed on the digital connection though, right?
> 
> I am still working on getting a master value list as I saw that this was on another thread as well. As I posted there, Value 7 : -2 is fine. Value 3 is an unknown and I am surprised that anyone RA'd anything previously (per one of your other posts) regarding either of those numbers. The values on some of them can be anything under 200 and still be nominal (receiver specific still). Trying to troubleshoot using those numbers is virtually impossible at this point, at least until I can get "the list".


TonyT....

Thanks for your comments. Yes, I do get HDCP on my Primary Sony via HDMI cable.....now and was suprised when the DISH tech told me, I should also get it through RGB (analog) with the audio cables to my secondary....but I kept hoping. Originally, I tried to split the HDMI digital signal out of VIP612 with a powered splitter to both Sony's without success so I sent it back....but nobody at DISH seemed to know why a powered or passive splitter should not have worked. Maybe you do.....it just seems like the VIP612 should be able to support two HDTVs with HDMI quality. It is superior to RGB + Audio cables especially for sound. Do you know why this shouldn't work? Do you know of a splitter that might. The typical DISH response was to upgrade my reciever for 2 HDMI outs...at signicantly greater cost. I would also appreciate any info on the meaning of the 9 receiver Value codes from off the 6-1-3 menu detail info. We have many power outages here during the winter, and although I have a surge protector when it comes back, it would be nice to know if they have damaged my receiver show by one of the Value codes. BTW, you are the first Dish Tech to participate in this string. Thanks!


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## Cmn

I wish I had found this forum a few weeks ago...I've spent many hours on the phone with dish customer service being told that the 890 ppv/vod error is a problem with my panasonic tc-p50g10, which panasonic denies. I've got two vip612 dish receivers, one connected by hdmi to the panasonic which doesn't allow ppv/vod, the other connected by hdmi to a vizio sv470m, which allows ppv/vod without any problems. Both 612's have the L640 software release. So my question is will the 722 dish receiver solve the problem with my panasonic?


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## Rogernet

Cmn....Thanks for your question.....the last data point for Error Message 890 and the VIP722s, was 9/12/10 last year (Wvand) on page 4 of this string: 

"I wish I would have seen this thread a long time ago. Story - new Panasonic G25, new 722 and new 612. Software is L6.09. The tv's (sony, sharp and panasonic) hooked to the 722 work fine. The Pansonic G25 hooked up to the 612 gets the 890 HDCP message. Dish evidently hasn't learned anything to date. The CS I first talked to said this is the first time this has happened. After many calls an advanced tech rep said it must be a faulty receiver and they are sending me another 612. This isn't going to fix it, is it?"

Not sure if you have a Panasonic g25 Series or not....but sounds like the 722 should work with the Panasonics according to the info above. I can try to contact my old DISH Tech insider for you....but there is at least one DISH tech on this string who might be able to check with their Engineering to see if the 890 HDCP fix has been ported to your platform and respond. You might try to contact him if you can get through the normal DISH Help Desk zoo. 

Anthony Thomas
DISH Network Customer Service
2:45PM to 11:15PM Sunday-Thursday 

I'll let you know if I hear anything. Hang in there...Enjoy all the $$ you are saving not ordering VODs or PPVs from DISH like I did for 12 months.


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## Cmn

Thanks for the info Rogernet. I'm going to replace the 612 with a 722 and see if it fixes the problem.


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## srkoma

I have the VIP612 hooked up directly to a Samsung FPT5084 with HDMI and nothing else. No second TV or sound system. Can't order PPV unless I go to components. My error message number is E120 for what it's worth. Tech came out and even had some guy on the phone in speaker phone mode and the phone guy said he never heard of this. The tech did however hear of this, but didn't know of a fix. They sent the tech out and waived the 15$ fee, but they WOULDN'T entertain the possibility that the 722 might work (as I suggested based on this awesome forum) and wanted 100$. I want to dump them even though my contract is not up, but wanted to hear any suggestions and if anyone thinks I should be able to get out of the contract based on this problem. It is false advertising if you ask me. I am only 2 months in and wasn't able to test the PPV option when they initially set things up since my internet was not up at the time. Thanks in advance.
Steve


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## tampa8

You can not order PPV with component connections. Not sure what you are trying to say.


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## srkoma

Yes you can. Read some of the other responses in the beginning of this thread. Others are getting the same error message and are required to switch to component cables to be able to watch ppv. The tech did this in front of me. He switched back to hdmi and it failed. Back to component and I was able to rent movies.


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## [email protected] Network

OK.. I see the confusion here. 

On a factual basis (generalization of course), it is a "handshake issue" as the receiver thinks that the TV, in the case of the HDCP error, is a recording device. The type of receiver (in the event it is changed) will likely have NO affect on the issue whatsoever. The software on the box is picking up the software on the TV and saying "You are a recording device, I cannot allow you to record this." It is the same reason why HDCP content loses its lease when transferred by EHD from an old receiver to a replacement receiver. The coding for copyright is embedded digitally into the event, and any receiver is forced to comply with it.

Being that HDMI is a two-way digital communication cable, the work around is using component video cables. Component cables are analog connections (only sending information one way in analog) and therefore are not affected by HDCP issues between our receivers and any manufacturer's TVs (at least that I have seen).

In my honest opinion, and in regard to TVs that see this issue, I believe it is how the TV is coded in the software in relation to how the receiver (on DISH Network's side) is coded in software as well. A lot of the Samsung TVs (at the really high end) have a functioning USB, as do Sony, and Mitsubishi. The lower models in each brand have the same software, just minor features that are not "enabled"; either the hardware is not connected (software unchanged) or the hardware is missing altogether (software still unchanged). 

I mention this as a possible reason behind the issue with HDCP-errors, as somewhere in the software on the TV there is a code written (whether applied to hardware or not) showing that a flash drive or hard drive of some kind can be attached directly to the TV. In some cases, it is the SD card reader available on some models of TVs, or a functioning USB port. The receiver is not "smart" enough to discern that the code is not for recording, but more for displaying pictures and short clips on video from an external device of some kind, or updating firmware. Features like Mitsubishi's supported EHD make the receiver sensitive to potential recording capabilities on the device that the programming is being sent to. That is likely why placing an A/V receiver between the DISH equipment and the TV changes nothing in some cases. The A/V receiver may have a similar code in it. 

At any rate, DISH is actively working on a solution from our end to discern the problem and correct it, while still maintaining HDCP compliance due to copyright laws and likely contractual obligations to offer the programming to begin with.


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## phrelin

Wow. That's the best explanation I've seen about what could go wrong with the HDMI communications between a TV and a receiver. I can just imagine how complex the problem is given the number of potential storage devices that could be hooked up or inserted or....


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## Rogernet

Wow....almost 6 years later on my old HDCP complaint.......
Breaking News here in 2017......DISH has finally implemented HDCP 2.x
for my old VIP 612 which still works just fine these many years later. Ref:

HDCP 2.2 copy protection and 4K Ultra HD TV

Joy to the World especially for those of us with older receivers like the 600,
700, and 900 series receivers. For me, with my single VIP 612 HDMI output
port for my primary SAMSUNG HDTV and single component output port for my secondarySONY HDTV in the bedroom not far away, it means a lot.

Up until February, last month, I had turn on my primary HDTV in the rec room to be able to watchany of the 20 HDCP protected channels (HBO, ESPN, USA, SYFI, CNBC....)on my HDTV in the bedroom without the dreaded ".....HDCP detected error..."This device does not support HDCP protocol..." even thought this 5 year old SONY Bravia has been HDCP compliant from the factory.

I remember one morning, last month, I turned on the bedroom HDTV, without the primary being on, and behold.....no HDCP Error message on an HBO channel! I couldn't believe it! I thought I was dreaming until I read about recent HDCP 2.x protocol implementation. Thank you Hollywood, steaming competition like NETFLIX, and DISH for finally waking up to the reality of everyone moving away from Satellite
providers and going the movie theaters. Sorry it took you 6 years to finally wake up.


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## P Smith

man ... you do cross-posting same misleading info

HDCP cannot be fixed by FW changes !
It's HW feature

missing popup messages have nothing with HDCP implementation !


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## Rogernet

Mr. Smith,

Thanks for your instant analysis of an issue I have been dealing with DISH for 8 years now. Trust me, I am well aware of HDCP protocol from the beginnings of it 10 years back with the 1.3 versions. I know it is a handshaking hardware protocol between transmitting devices and receivers. I never have complained about any missing popup messages since I started this thread....so not sure where that came from. The DISH 890 error message has been a standard one when the DISH firmware does not sense an HDCP compliant device on the receiver end.

I am sorry if I confused you with my last post on this thread. I'm sure you didn't have time to read up on all the other previous posts since I started this thing 8 years back. I will try to be more clear this time.

So back in 2010, I had 2 SONY 1080p Bravia TV's. My old DISH VIP 612 Receiver (which I still use) had only 1 HDMI port and 1 set of RGB component ports for my secondary 1080 TV about 10 feet away in a bedroom. Because DISH was still using a HDCP 1.3 protocol at that time and many years until this year for this receiver, every time I tried to watch an HDCP protected channel on the bedroom TV....I would get the DISH message 890...."This device does not support HDCP......." However,
everything was just fine on my primary 1080 TV via the HDMI port from the receiver.

To debug this with DISH techs back then.... I used the menu options 6-1-3 to get the to System INFO One screen. If you then press NEXT, you will get the SYSTEM INFO TWO screen. The second line there gives the HDCP status as Yes or No. The DISH tech could not explain why my primary was good HDCP=YES with the HDMI cable but my secondary was bad HDCP=NO with RGB cables.

The only fix for the past 6 years was to turn on both my primary and secondary TVs if I wanted to see all channels in including HDCP protected ones on my secondary TV.
Still not sure why this worked.....but it did.

Finally, this year, DISH upgraded their firmware in the VIP 612 receiver to version L890, which apparently upgraded the receiver to HDCP 2.0, which has backward compatibility with earlier HDCP versions.

Not sure if you are familiar with HDCP 2.0 or the newer 2.2 version for 4K content protection, but I think the reason that both my TVs now show HDCP=YES, is because HDCP 2.0 among other things uses a locality test in the authentication process which sets a max of 7 ms between the HDCP transmitter (VIP 612 receiver) and the HDCP receiver (my secondary 1080P TV) which passes the test, even with RGB component cables. This is what finally turned the HDCP bit on my secondary TV without the primary being on.

Trust me, all the hardware has been the same for 7 years, except I upgraded my primary to a SAMSUNG 4K HDTV in 2015. The only variable was the DISH firmware upgrades since 2010, and I think DISH finally had to move up to HDCP 2.0 for the older receivers like mine last month. I hope my response is clear to you now.

BTW: A very good technical review of HDCP 2.0 can be found on this link:

http:www.embedded.com

Updating the High Definiton Content Protection Standard with Version 2.0
by Al Hawtin - June 17, 2009


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