# HP or Dell?



## DishDude1 (Apr 13, 2002)

Ok guys, time for a new PC. I priced out HP and Dell, for what I want they are both around the same price. Any suggestions, opinions or advice on which brand is more stable?


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## MarkA (Mar 23, 2002)

If you asked me what, of all PC brands out there, to avoid - the first two I would have mentioned are HP and Dell. Instead of restore CDs, HP creates a several GB restore partition on your hard drive. Not only do you lose a lot of the hard drive space you paid for, if you decide you want to upgrade your drive - you must call HP to order CDs (though I think they might be free - still)

As for Dell, they use way too many proprietary component designs. This makes upgrading any thing from a pain to almost impossible (example: a new motherboard would require a new case on most Dells). And I can never forgive them for the pain and suffering the Steve ads caused.


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## gcutler (Mar 23, 2002)

According to PC magazine's ratings, DELL had better quality and customer support ratings by users than HP (only Gateway beat Dell I believe?) And Gateway & Dell tends to win alot of awards based on the balance of features, quality and price.

You really can't go wrong with either of them, as long as you get exactly what you want.

I have 3 Dells at home (have had 5 total), had 3 dells at my desk last job and never had any problems. My next PC will probably be a Dell as well. Last company I worked for switched to Dells and never looked back.

Desktop Overall Survey
http://common.ziffdavisinternet.com/download/0/1581/desktops.pdf
Desktop Home/Office Breakdown
http://common.ziffdavisinternet.com/download/0/1536/desktops2.pdf
Satisfaction Survey
http://www.pcmag.com/image_popup/0,3003,s=1564&iid=13395,00.asp
Article
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,4149,334309,00.asp

Notebook Overall
http://common.ziffdavisinternet.com/download/0/1530/notebooks.pdf
Notebook Home/Office Breakdown
http://common.ziffdavisinternet.com/download/0/1537/notebooks2.pdf
Article
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,4149,334332,00.asp


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## Mike123abc (Jul 19, 2002)

I usually just price shop Dell and Gateway. They go back and forth on most bang for the buck depending on what exactly you need. Now if you just want the cheapest Gateway usually wins that, but on upper end models it is 60% of the time Dell will end up less. Look for an AGP slot, it is the best expansion option for the future.


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## MarkA (Mar 23, 2002)

I would second gcutler's hint at a reccomendation on Gateway. My Gateway works great, and a friend who asked me for advice on a new computer has been nothing but happy with her Gateway system. Very nice system designs. Intel only which kinda isn't good. I got mine when they had AMDs (it's an Athlon 950)


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## MarkA (Mar 23, 2002)

PS, to tell you how good the Athlon is. I also have a 2.0GHz P4 system. The speed is very very similar. In fact I'd say the Athlon 950 may be just a touch faster, but I'd put that on the fact the P4 is a notebook and therefore has worse Graphics (ATI Mobility Radeon vs. ATI Radeon AIW 7500), and a slower HD.


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## Bogy (Mar 23, 2002)

I've had good luck with a couple of HP's, very stable, not at all hard to upgrade. Of course these aren't the HP you are going to buy in BB. They're a little older, HP Vectra VL's.


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## gcutler (Mar 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Bogy _
> *I've had good luck with a couple of HP's, very stable, not at all hard to upgrade. Of course these aren't the HP you are going to buy in BB. They're a little older, HP Vectra VL's. *


Loved working with the Vectra VL's, all around nice machines. Don't let Zac know that they are proprietary in the way the Dells are.


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

After all the problems my school has had with Dells I would never get one. Even though every month PC World always rates Dell #1 in various categroies. Between Dell and HP, I'd go with HP, just because I have all Compaq stuff and everything works great. But if I were looking at getting another machine, I would choose a Compaq.


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## gcutler (Mar 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Steve Mehs _
> *After all the problems my school has had with Dells I would never get one. *


One thing that can make a difference is a certain level of abuse in classrooms. A PC that gets used by 1 person day in and day out for 2-3 years can defintely work differently when being used in a classroom setting, the abuse level is higher in the classroom. Were other machines used under the same circumstances and did better or was it only Dells and they just broke down alot? Having Taught MCSE and other classes, the Abuse of Non-Personal machines is really high and I would not hold that against a brand (unless they came out of the box like that)


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## James_F (Apr 23, 2002)

Please, corporate america uses Dells because they are cheaper and run better than others. 

BTW don't buy an extended contract with Gateway because they will be bankrupt by christmas of next year.


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

I wasn't refering to the Octiplexes in the classroom, which have so much grabage installed on them, they're expected to run like crap. But rather, the PowerEdge servers, which seem to crash everyother week. I talked to one of our part time network administrators and he said working with those servers is a nightmare, one of the servers arrived DOA, but Dell had a replacement sent 2 days later, after that their tech support has gone down hill. One thing that got him mad, the latest shipment of computers (Nov 2000) were supposed to all come with Windows ME but arrived with 98 instead. They complained and wanted to get some money back, never heard the rest of the story so I don't know what happened. My school has a contract with Dell, so thats all we use. We do have a few old HP Vertra's but at 166Mhz they're not used that much anymore.


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## gcutler (Mar 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Steve Mehs _
> *I wasn't refering to the Octiplexes in the classroom, which have so much grabage installed on them, they're expected to run like crap. But rather, the PowerEdge servers, which seem to crash everyother week. I talked to one of our part time network administrators and he said working with those servers is a nightmare, one of the servers arrived DOA, but Dell had a replacement sent 2 days later, after that their tech support has gone down hill. *


Thats actually not an un typical situation with servers in general. My last job had the same exact problem with IBMs. But we were very used to Compaq servers that I wonder if the problem was just lack of familiarity with IBM servers as opposed to quality.

If a server is crashing every week, it is either bad hardware or mis configured (faulty) SW. Hard to say if it is Dell or the Administrator?


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## James_F (Apr 23, 2002)

I have 4 dell PowerEdge servers and none of them have had an y trouble. Computers are a commodity. If they don't work its because of user error. Brands don't matter, its the service you get with that brand. Intel chipsets don't differ much between brands so specs are irrelevant anymore. Its about service and IMO Dell has the best service.


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## toddjb (May 7, 2002)

Interesting that you were able to price them out at the same price In my case, I would have preferred a Dell but HP came in at a much better bargain.

I'd go for the Dell if they're the same price. However, I have both and do not have problems with either yet. (but I have definitely heard more compliments from Dell owners).

MERRY CHRISTMAS!

-todd


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## MarkA (Mar 23, 2002)

"My school has a contract with Dell, so thats all we use."

Doesn't just about every school? It's the same at the high school I went to. They bought lots of Dell systems at a discount. It wasn't exclusive though. The science department had Gateway laptops for us to use in science class. The art department had Apple Macs, and Xi's (a pro video workstation brand, in reality they're overpriced junk). The English department also had iMacs in a writing lab. But almost all the computers (library, classroom except for exceptions above, business software labs) were Dells.


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## James_F (Apr 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by toddjb _
> *Interesting that you were able to price them out at the same price In my case, I would have preferred a Dell but HP came in at a much better bargain.
> 
> I'd go for the Dell if they're the same price. However, I have both and do not have problems with either yet. (but I have definitely heard more compliments from Dell owners).
> ...


That is exactly what I'd do. Computers are a commodity so why not buy the cheapest. The only thing that separates them is service, but when it comes down to it, a lower price will always win out.


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## gcutler (Mar 23, 2002)

One things is the customization ability of the online ordering. My friend went HP because Dell only had 128, 256, 512 and 1024MB. He wanted 768MB, HP gave him that option (which was around $250 difference between 768MB and 1024MB) That probably is my only complaint with the dell ordering system. If Dell would have offered a 768MB the price would have been the same, but because it didn't the Dell price was $250 more expensive, forcing him to take an extra 256MB that he didn't want.

But for me I usually can save money with Crucial.com memory so that gives me alot of leeway.


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## CoriBright (May 30, 2002)

Stay well away from the consumer range of HPs. They are very unstable - tower case is small, hard to upgrade and the PSU is so weak. I got a Pavilion 8860. Within 6 weeks the CDRW failed. HP's customer service told me to send in the whole unit... and to backup my software as they would format the hard drive. Having taken 27 hours straight to remove their junk and put my software on, I wasn't too keen on this idea. Since the burner had broken, I asked them for 3,000 floppies so that I could backup. Needless to say they didn't oblige and I went and purchased my own new burner.

The meager 185watt PSU couldn't handle anything much. The moment I wanted more than a 16mb Vanta nVidia graphics card, the PC wouldn't even startup. And to upgrade to a 300watt PSU meant cutting around the rear 'cage' with tin snips to make it fit. The micro ATX motherboard, an Asus, totally mutilated by HP doesn't make things any easier either.

A friend has a Dell Dimension 4100 and I'm most impressed by it. His graphics card failed and Dell actually sent a tech to his apartment to fix it within a couple of days. I clean installed XP Home for him.... zero problems, it found every piece of hardware correctly and runs like a dream.

Since the HP 'disaster' I now build my own PCs... if I had to go out tomorrow and purchase a pre-built one, I'd definitely go with Dell. If I had to wait a week or so, I'd go with Alienware. And if I had a few weeks, I'd build another. But there'll never be another HP anything in my household again.

Cari
www.coribright.com


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## James_F (Apr 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by CoriBright _
> *A friend has a Dell Dimension 4100 and I'm most impressed by it. His graphics card failed and Dell actually sent a tech to his apartment to fix it within a couple of days. I clean installed XP Home for him.... zero problems, it found every piece of hardware correctly and runs like a dream.*


Thats makes my point about service. You can buy a cheaper computer, but if you can't fix it yourself, why? :scratch:


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## gcutler (Mar 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by CoriBright _
> *Stay well away from the consumer range of HPs. They are very unstable - tower case is small, hard to upgrade and the PSU is so weak. I got a Pavilion 8860. Within 6 weeks the CDRW failed. HP's customer service told me to send in the whole unit... and to backup my software as they would format the hard drive. www.coribright.com *


I wouldn't have believed it, but I had a HP Pavillion Pentium-MX/200. There were labels all over the case that if you opened the case you invalidated the warranty (well within the 1st week I added memory, Hey I'm A+ certified, can't keep me out). And the case was incredibly hard to open. I don't believe the new Pavillions are as hard to open as HP must have realized that legit upgrades of memory, adding CDs or Hard Drives happens all the time.

Did you try to RMA the CDRW back to HP instead of the entire machine. The right words might have gotten that done?


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## bkwest (Aug 14, 2002)

I would go dell all the way. I have two dell desktops and two dell poweredge servers at home...

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MAJOR GEEK is all I can say!


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## djlong (Jul 8, 2002)

We've had problems with HP where I work. Now it's all IBM becuase of reliability and service. Though I hear that HP's shipping of a lot of their IT work to India is another reason.


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## MarkA (Mar 23, 2002)

"Stay well away from the consumer range of HPs. They are very unstable - tower case is small, hard to upgrade and the PSU is so weak. I got a Pavilion 8860. Within 6 weeks the CDRW failed. HP's customer service told me to send in the whole unit... and to backup my software as they would format the hard drive."

" I wouldn't have believed it, but I had a HP Pavillion Pentium-MX/200. There were labels all over the case that if you opened the case you invalidated the warranty (well within the 1st week I added memory, Hey I'm A+ certified, can't keep me out). And the case was incredibly hard to open. I don't believe the new Pavillions are as hard to open as HP must have realized that legit upgrades of memory, adding CDs or Hard Drives happens all the time."

My friends with an HP I told you about, lost their modem card. HP just mailed them a new one. Then they called me and I installed it. Case was easy to open and had, in fact, already been opened because I did some other upgrades for them. So I'd say that the problem you mention is non-existant in modern machines. My problem with HP was that they include no restore CDs (though you can order them for an HD upgrade), and instead waste YOUR drive space with a restore partition.


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## gcutler (Mar 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Zac _
> * My problem with HP was that they include no restore CDs (though you can order them for an HD upgrade), and instead waste YOUR drive space with a restore partition. *


Now if they give you a CD-RW in the unit, do they at least give you the ability to make a bootable Restore CD (from an ISO file or whatever). I don't mind them doing that so much (one or two blank CD-R and you're done). But then again, how expensive is it to throw in the CDs (25 cents per unit?). I make sure I keep my Dell CD/Manual boxes with everything. This way except for upgrading the OS, everything I need to put the system back to default when I sell it is there. And the new owner usually appreciates being handed a box with everything they would normally need. I don't know how much it costs Dell to produce that box with the 5-6 CDs and the manuals, but I could easily justify $50 of the cost of the computer.


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## MarkA (Mar 23, 2002)

Nope gcutler. I wouldn't mind that at all. No way to make restore CDs. If you want them, you must order from HP.


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## Wedgecon (Jul 13, 2002)

> _Originally posted by James_F _
> *I have 4 dell PowerEdge servers and none of them have had an y trouble. Computers are a commodity. If they don't work its because of user error. Brands don't matter, its the service you get with that brand. Intel chipsets don't differ much between brands so specs are irrelevant anymore. Its about service and IMO Dell has the best service. *


For a few servers Dells are ok, but for hundreds or thousands of servers unless your one of the Google's of the world the management capabilities of the name brand servers (Mostly Compaq) are well worth the extra price.

But there are a lot of companies that buy Compaqs and do not use any of their management tools, so they might as well buy Dells...

Me I will stick with Compaq until Dell or somebody else can sell me a total solution (Servers, Management, Racks, Tape Drives, etc)


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