# See the lates E DVR commercial



## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

The funny one where the hubby FF commercials and his wifes talking?

I can see a slightly different one

Where the family sees the box malfunction, is shown rebooting, disappointed at missing scheduled shows, missing audio and all the possible flakiness that goes with being a E user

Heres our FAVORITE SHOW, OOOPS downloading new software message, we missed the show

The last bit shows the family ripping the box from the cables and tossing it in the trash.....


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## finniganps (Jan 23, 2004)

Just think Bob, this time next month you should have Direct and not have to worry about ANY of these problems with your flawless box from Direct. I assume that your buyer for the rental is set to close in a couple weeks right?


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

We are at minimum keeping E for skyangel.

So things will still bve of interest

Yeah closing is set for the 19th. Just hope it all works out..


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## JBKing (Mar 23, 2002)

What was the point of this post?


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

It was supposed to be funny in a sarchastic way

Sorry I am not real good at funnies like this

I forgot to add the featured box is a 921....


The commercial is actually pretty good. I KNOW I want to RW and FF stuff other than tv all the time.

skip would be useful for conversations with my wife

playback would be a howl when I warn her about stuff and she claims she never heard it!


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

JBKing said:


> What was the point of this post?


There is absolutely no point to the post. It is just Bob Haller being ... well, Bob Haller. I was going to say something else but I don't want to get him started again on how bad *he thinks* DISH is. Like others here I am looking forward to him getting a flawless receiver and service from DirecTV.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Ahh my buddy bill.

The tech chat doesnt even know how to use their own design...

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=34950

E home of the unfinished untested software

Bill they will fix the bugs as time permits

Bob The bugs should be found and elminated before the softwares release.

Heck even daylight savings time hung around thanks to E

Back to the funny part. Once exposed to a DVR how many WISH it was usable on everything? Relieve over and over a good time with a lover? FF past bad days at work? Bad posts with Bill R

Relive your vacation on dem,and


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## the_bear (Oct 18, 2004)

DVR does have its dark side. Just the other day I heard,
“Daddy help! Come quickly, QUICKLY!”
I run to find the kids in front of the TV. Then they say, “It’s a commercial. You have to skip it.”


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

Bob Haller said:


> Bill they will fix the bugs as time permits
> 
> Bob The bugs should be found and elminated before the softwares release.


I never have said that and you know it. In fact, I agree with you -- bugs SHOULD be fixed BEFORE software is released.

The problem is Haller (and it seems like you are just too damn dumb to know it even though people have told you a thousand times) it is almost impossible to release complex software that is COMPLETELY bug free. Even TiVo has problems. That is why they have done three software updates in the last few months.

Haller, Echostar is doing fine IN SPITE of all your bashing, lies, and character assassination (of their programmers). People like you (most of whom are dumber than dirt and have very little education) have no idea of what it takes to bring a product like a DVR to market. Those of us in the engineering profession who do know (somewhat) what it takes really do appreciate all the hard work and dedication that DISH people put into their service. Perhaps, if your life wasn't such a mess, and you stopped taking out your frustration on the wrong people, you could step back and see that.


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

Bill R said:


> I never have said that and you know it. In fact, I agree with you -- bugs SHOULD be fixed BEFORE software is released.
> 
> The problem is Haller (and it seems like you are just too damn dumb to know it even though people have told you a thousand times) it is almost impossible to release complex software that is COMPLETELY bug free. Even TiVo has problems. That is why they have done three software updates in the last few months.
> 
> Haller, Echostar is doing fine IN SPITE of all your bashing, lies, and character assassination (of their programmers). People like you (most of whom are dumber than dirt and have very little education) have no idea of what it takes to bring a product like a DVR to market. Those of us in the engineering profession who do know (somewhat) what it takes really do appreciate all the hard work and dedication that DISH people put into their service. Perhaps, if your life wasn't such a mess, and you stopped taking out your frustration on the wrong people, you could step back and see that.


Bob is doing what he does best! He has a very colorful imagination I must say, The, "commercial" and the, "flight with Charlie" are pretty comical at least. It's not that I want to add fuel to the fire but there seems to be plenty of fire burning on the fuel.


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## JBKing (Mar 23, 2002)

Yes, that was slightly amusing...... 6 million times ago!!!!! But when you hear the same junk coming from the same mouth, day in and day out.... it gets old to say the least.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Most of whats discussed anywhere on the net is repeated. Probably less than 1% is original never been talked about before.

Because of something Bill R said I must do some research 

Mostly I prefer to FF thru his posts or skip them altogether!


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## Unthinkable (Sep 13, 2002)

JBKing said:


> Yes, that was slightly amusing...... 6 million times ago!!!!! But when you hear the same junk coming from the same mouth, day in and day out.... it gets old to say the least.


You think thats bad, you should pop into the charlie chat chats or tech chat chats where people run the "not compelling enough" jokes into the ground a few million times over to the point of sheer insanity.


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## Tyralak (Jan 24, 2004)

Bob Haller said:


> The funny one where the hubby FF commercials and his wifes talking?
> 
> I can see a slightly different one
> 
> ...


I would suggest you do what I did, and dump the DVRs that are dependant on provider, and just get a ReplayTV. I did that about 2 months ago, and couldn't be happier. It's networkable right out of the box, and I have it hooked up to my home network, so I can archive video right to my computer easily. I can manage the unit remotely if I'm on vacation (like I am now). It also doesn't matter if I use satellite, cable or an antenna, I can still use my Replay. If you have additional Replays, they cut the subscription fee in half for the other boxes. I just have one now with a small 40gig HD, but I'm going to upgrade the hard drive soon to the biggest one I can afford. Probably a 300 gig or up.


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## Chris Gerhard (Nov 10, 2004)

Tyralak said:


> I would suggest you do what I did, and dump the DVRs that are dependant on provider, and just get a ReplayTV. I did that about 2 months ago, and couldn't be happier. It's networkable right out of the box, and I have it hooked up to my home network, so I can archive video right to my computer easily. I can manage the unit remotely if I'm on vacation (like I am now). It also doesn't matter if I use satellite, cable or an antenna, I can still use my Replay. If you have additional Replays, they cut the subscription fee in half for the other boxes. I just have one now with a small 40gig HD, but I'm going to upgrade the hard drive soon to the biggest one I can afford. Probably a 300 gig or up.


No bitstream recording, no Dolby Digital audio, lesser picture quality and missed channel changes when used with a satellite service make that not a very good choice for the majority.

Bob is certainly correct, the Dish Network DVRs are inferior to DirecTV TiVo DVRs. If all bashing him are suggesting otherwise, that is total nonsense.

Chris


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Chris Gerhard said:


> Bob is certainly correct, the Dish Network DVRs are inferior to DirecTV TiVo DVRs. If all bashing him are suggesting otherwise, that is total nonsense.


Since I have not played with a Tivo DVR in detail, I cannot say wheither or not it is totally nonsense. I would not be that arrogant. However, I would think there are some use cases where a Dish DVR would make more sense and would be more usable to the end user.

One that comes to mind... Hmm an older person that is use to how a VCR works. Moving to a TIVO would be a paradigm shift they might not get over. Since the Dish DVR more closely models a VCR, the learning curve would be less. I have a 60+ year old mother-in-law that is using a 508 and she required some time to get use to the DVR paradigm shift. I a can assure you that if I put a TIVO in here room she would still try to be figuring it out a year later and most likely would have me take it away.

It is not always about who has the best technology and there is always use cases that make one DVR a better match than the other. We all tend to play the game of "What is inferior", well it is my opinion that inferior is based on the desired end user. In the case of a technology challanged person, I believe a Dish Tivo would be more easier to use.

But if you are just wanting to compare features, reliability, and cool factor. Yes Tivo would take the crown compared to Dish's units.

So I see many points of discussion worthy of talking about, but I am sure they are all nonsense in your eyes and therefore not even worth discussing. I guess then I should just stop discussing.


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## Tyralak (Jan 24, 2004)

Chris Gerhard said:


> No bitstream recording, no Dolby Digital audio, lesser picture quality and missed channel changes when used with a satellite service make that not a very good choice for the majority.
> Chris


The "diminished picture quality" is exaggerated. I've noticed no noticable degradation when I record on high, and minimal when I record on medium. As for missed channel changes, it's never happened to me. It would be nice to have DD recording though.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Tyralak said:


> The "diminished picture quality" is exaggerated. I've noticed no noticable degradation when I record on high, and minimal when I record on medium. As for missed channel changes, it's never happened to me. It would be nice to have DD recording though.


PQ is very subjective and depends a lot on the display unit. What is not noticeable on a 32" TV would be very no ticable on a big screen TV. Also, what one person my not see as poor someone else sees as a big deal. When i was choosing a DVR, one of the main reasons I went with a Dish box was because of no PQ loss. It was high on my list.

Some people look at VHS and DVD and don't see what the difference is. This is true, I have heard the comments. I am not sure if the PQ loss is blown out of proportion, however, on all PQ issues I contend that the person should check it out for themselfs if it is a concern. What my be unnoticeable to someone might look like a huge defect to someone else.


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## Tyralak (Jan 24, 2004)

WeeJavaDude said:


> PQ is very subjective and depends a lot on the display unit. What is not noticeable on a 32" TV would be very no ticable on a big screen TV. Also, what one person my not see as poor someone else sees as a big deal. When i was choosing a DVR, one of the main reasons I went with a Dish box was because of no PQ loss. It was high on my list.
> 
> Some people look at VHS and DVD and don't see what the difference is. This is true, I have heard the comments. I am not sure if the PQ loss is blown out of proportion, however, on all PQ issues I contend that the person should check it out for themselfs if it is a concern. What my be unnoticeable to someone might look like a huge defect to someone else.


Right now I have a 55" Mitsubishi rear projection HDTV which has (both in my opinion and according to reviewers) has among the best SD picture quality in it's class of television. Even with all the fancy circuitry in it designed to clean up SD picture, it's still really easy to see flaws in a picture. Especially the overcompression that E* and D* inflict on us. At first I was concerned about the PQ degradation I'd heard so much about, but I was pleasantly surprised to find no noticable PQ loss in high recording mode, very minor issues in medium (and only on channels that had already been compressed to hell by E*) Now, "standard" mode is a different story alltogether, and may be where a lot of this concern comes from. It looks like crap. I NEVER record on standard. Now, this means I have less space to work with, but I'm going to be upgrading the HD in it soon anyway.


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## SAEMike (May 29, 2004)

I've had my 510 for seven months now. No major malfunctions, no missed timers, just a couple of minor bugs. I've been very happy with it.


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## Cholly (Mar 22, 2004)

I have a TiVo Series 2 connected to my 811's S-Video output. I've recorded several HD programs (naturally downconverted by the 811 to 525i) in both Best quality and High quality on the TiVo. While the PQ isn't anywhere as good as live HD, it is still very watchable on my 32" direct view Sony HD monitor receiver. I also routinely use the combination for time shifting non-HD programs that are broadcast when I'm not at home. I'd have to say that the PQ is comparable to that of programs Ive recorded on my 721. When judging PQ, it makes a whale of a difference if you're viewing a TV that has a line doubler as compared to one that doesn't (most if not all current HD monitors have line doublers). Line doublers really improve standard TV PQ (for the uninitiated, line doublers don't double the number of lines in a picture, they show the full picture twice in 1/30 second rather than showing first the odd numbered lines of the picture and then the even numbered lines).
For a very enlightening article that compares the various formats of analog and digital television, see http://www.projectorcentral.com/hdtv_edtv.htm
Actually, projectorcentral has a number of good articles worth reading. The also have reviews of projectors, among other things (surprise  )


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## deweybrunner (Feb 8, 2004)

BillR, you have hit the nail on the head. I commend you for an opinion that is the same as hundreds or thousands of others who have a 921's. Bashers should get off this thread and get their Direct HD.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

bill R has a small problem Its ONE thing to find a occasional bug.

Its altogether a different and troubling management issue to find bugs in every box, unfinished and ill tested software. DST is a twice yearly predictable scheduled event that E choose to ignore, till after it caused grief.

Same for leaving paths for users to create unrecoverable troubles. like the old 75 rimer bug, that would put the boxes in endless reboot requiring a RMA.

Obviously little testing is done, or they have choosen to accept junk code. Bugs rarely effect every box. That lkeads to the conclusion of varying specs or poor QC.

In any case these troubles raise subs costs. the bugs cause lost customers, and even if the person sticks with E no doubt they tell their friends of their problems Ultimately that can cause lost business too.

These are really management issues, and honestly Charlie should hang it up before he hurts the company futher.


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

Haller,

You are just to stupid to argue with. You are *SO* biased against ANYTHING that DISH does that NOTHING I could say could change your mind. Echostar's (subscriber) numbers speak for themself. While you are spending a lot of your life complaining about your (mostly minor) bugs the other MILLIONS of us DISH subscribers will keep enjoying our service.

As I said before, I think your life is such a mess that you just use DISH a scapegoat for the many other thing that you hate about your life. They don't deserve that abuse and it really isn't going to make your life better by constantly lying about their service.


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

While I recommend and sell E* daily, that does not mean it can't be improved.

Most of what Haller says IS actually true, and there's no reason for it.


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## garypen (Feb 1, 2004)

You got that right.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Bill R said:


> Haller,
> 
> You are just to stupid to argue with. You are *SO* biased against ANYTHING that DISH does that NOTHING I could say could change your mind. Echostar's (subscriber) numbers speak for themself. While you are spending a lot of your life complaining about your (mostly minor) bugs the other MILLIONS of us DISH subscribers will keep enjoying our service.
> 
> As I said before, I think your life is such a mess that you just use DISH a scapegoat for the many other thing that you hate about your life. They don't deserve that abuse and it really isn't going to make your life better by constantly lying about their service.


Bill have you EVER noticed?

I NEVER call other posters here stupid or other demeaning things. Saying things like that diminish your message, whatever it is

Another oddity. I appear to find bugs FIRST. I cant remember one that I ONLY get. Eventually others report the same experience.

Now you call my bugs minor To ME days of timer malfunctions because my 721 didnt update its time isnt minor, and should never occur.

Lets get back to the real subject. How many others here would like to DVR life

People say dumb stuff all the time Could re[play it for the offender.

Heck I want a DVR radio


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## Phil T (Mar 25, 2002)

While I respect both Bill and Bob, both who have been around these boards since the beginnings, I do get tired of their attacks on each other, although I must say, both of you do have have some valid points.

I was the biggest Dishnetwork supporter for 7 years. I got good equipment at a good price point and was a happy camper for a lot of years. But as the technology was getting better, Dish seemed not to learn or listen to is customer base. The original Dishplayer 7100 was cutting edge but when there were problems, Dish offered little in the way of solutions. I never was offered even any free programming or upgrade programs when the software bugs were at there worst. As my family became hooked on the DVR, I knew I needed a 2 tuner DVR. The 721 never reached a price point I could live with. The 522 looked like the answer but it came out lease only with bugs that took a long time to get resolved (I assume they are resolved now). I spent nearly a grand on a 6000 that could never get the program guide more then 2 hours out and never did get local digital information. I worked a lot with a local Dish dealer and even helped him sell a few 6000's since I knew more about the unit then he did. I also got to hear his frustrations about product shortages, and the way dealers were paid (or not).

It has been over a year since I decided to try DirecTV. While they are not perfect, I must say my overall experience is much more enjoyable then with Dish. My initial investment for 2 DirecTivos was next to nothing. I got a Samsung 360 for $68.00 from DirecTV when I told them I needed to replace my 6000. It makes the 6000 look like a model T when you compare the features.

I must say the biggest difference is when there are problems. I was not happy with the installer who hooked up my Samsung. I called DirecTV and got Showtime for free for 6 months. I referred a friend and got HBO for $2.00 a month for 6 months.

I now have Showtime free for 3 months since it is my one year anniversary. They just turned it on and sent me a card.

Last week when Altitude was added to the lineup I did not get it on any of my three units. I called and got a 1st level CSR. She was very nice but couldn't fix the problem and said she would have to send me to another level. The second level CSR in Las Vegas was very nice and tried a lot of things but could not get it added to my package. He ended up sending me to a third level (retention) who fixed the problem in about 30 seconds. Not only did she fix the problem, she gave me Starz free for 6 months. 

Bottom line for me is when I do have an issue, they take care of me, something Charlie used to say he would do for his customers. 

Things may change but I do enjoy equipment that works, freeview concerts, lots of free programming (for me), and $1.99 PPV's (I am recording one now). 

I try and stop by the local Dish dealer now and again. The doors are always locked. He may have gone out of business.  It is too bad because another local Dish dealer just locked up the doors after 5 years.

I hope Dish turns things around because someday I may want to replace my DirecTivos. But untill something better comes around, I plan to stay with DirecTV.


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

Bob Haller said:


> Bill have you EVER noticed?
> 
> I NEVER call other posters here stupid or other demeaning things.


If the shoe fits.......... An example of your stupidity is your "tag" line. Are you too dumb or too lazy to correct all the spelling and grammatical errors in it? From your posts I think ANYONE can conclude that you aren't very bright. If you tried a little harder maybe people would think you are so stupid.

Besides attacking me (because I don't agree with you) you choose to to attack the programmers and others at DISH network; people you know aren't allowed to publically post. I stand up for them because they can't.

I dislike bugs as much as anyone but the way you (almost daily) UNJUSTLY (and that is the key word) attack ALL of DISH's actions is totally uncalled for. When I have a problem I complain about it but you have made it your life's work to bash DISH (MOST of the time it isn't justified). You don't realize how nuts that seems to a lot of us. You constantly post about bugs that have been fixed over a year ago (like the timer bug). What does that accomplish? Nothing, it just allows you to further spread your hate of _anything_ related to DISH. I think that some people that read your posts conclude that the only reason that you live is so you can complain (a really dysfunctional lifestyle).

Haller,

As Phil points out, people are sick and tired of our attacks on each other. If we don't BOTH stop it we are BOTH going to be kicked off this board. Is that what you want? Keep it up and it is going to happen, I can almost guarantee it.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Tyralak said:


> Right now I have a 55" Mitsubishi rear projection HDTV which has (both in my opinion and according to reviewers) has among the best SD picture quality in it's class of television. Even with all the fancy circuitry in it designed to clean up SD picture, it's still really easy to see flaws in a picture. Especially the overcompression that E* and D* inflict on us. At first I was concerned about the PQ degradation I'd heard so much about, but I was pleasantly surprised to find no noticable PQ loss in high recording mode, very minor issues in medium (and only on channels that had already been compressed to hell by E*) Now, "standard" mode is a different story alltogether, and may be where a lot of this concern comes from. It looks like crap. I NEVER record on standard. Now, this means I have less space to work with, but I'm going to be upgrading the HD in it soon anyway.


Interesting data point Tyralak. Sounds like you have a nice system, but I still stand behind my original point. PQ loss issue might be exaggerated and I would recommend anyone one looking to go your route to see if the loss in PQ is not noticable to them. There is a PQ loss and depending on the person's tolerance and their configuration it may or may not be acceptable.

I am not a fan of a two box DVR solution, but that is my opinion. Obviously you went with it and are happy with your choice.


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## garypen (Feb 1, 2004)

Bill R said:


> If the shoe fits.......... An example of your stupidity is your "tag" line. Are you too dumb or too lazy to correct all the spelling and grammatical errors in it? From your posts I think ANYONE can conclude that you aren't very bright. If you tried a little harder maybe people would think you are so stupid.
> 
> Besides attacking me (because I don't agree with you) you choose to to attack the programmers and others at DISH network; people you know aren't allowed to publically post. I stand up for them because they can't.
> 
> ...


I gotta tell ya Bill... YOU always attack Bob first. Every time. Always. Without a doubt. Like clockwork. The above post is a perfect example. (Immediately preceding your call to end personal attacks, ironically.) He merely responds to your personal attacks.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

I NEVER attack another member here first, but I DO defend myself.

Now I DO attack as needed provider issues, and do admit disquist for their software group. The combo of these have caused many man hours of rebooting, troubleshooting, RMA replacements, lost recordiungs and geneal hassle. Heck one nite it bugged out on the survivir finale

These sorts of events cause troubles here.

As to my tag line I HOPE it changes soon


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Bill On that 75 timer bug....

Leaving a path that a customer can turn a box into a RMA by merely creating too many timers. Thats manageent and softeware at its worst. espically when a box likely has unwatched programs on it.

I use this bug as a example for this reason.

Would a auto maker leave a bug where turning the radio to a particular station shorts the ignition and requires a tow?

Or turn on the headlights and brake at the same time kills the engine.

Look in my job business repairing office machines like copiers one of my hot buttons are companies that leave easy operator error cauises BIG failure. 

Designers should know better


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

Been- DirecTV since the beginning and went HDTV when they began to offer it. When E* started to get ahead of D* with adding Showtime HD channel. I added E*. Last summer I added VOOM as well. I have all three. I got the 921 as soon as I could. Did the same for the HDTIVO. Had both on order when they were announced as shipping.
Fact is- 2004 has marked a year that E* has failed it's subscribers with false promises and has fallen behind in the offering of HDTV. The 921 had many serious bugs as well as minor ones. 6 months past before E* had most of the serious bugs fixed while the HDTIVO worked pretty well out of the gate. It also offered superior feature set for same money. Then D* pushed forward with more quantity but at debatable quality. 

Bottom line- none of the services has it all. Some offers better then the others. At times it appears a game of leap frog is being played and as of today- for programming offers Voom is #1, D* #2, and E* #3 For DVR's D* #1, E* #2, Voom not yet in play.

PQ varies more by source than delivery method. On equal program source and same monitor, all 3 are about equal! 

My wish- Give me Voom service with HDTIVO receiver- Probably never happen but that would be the best of all worlds, for me anyway.


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

Haller,

Give it a rest. The timer bug was FIXED. Yes, I agree with you, bugs should be fixed BEFORE software gets deployed but, as I often point out, software with bugs is a problem for a lot of vendors on a lot of devices. Some of them never bother to fix them. Speaking of cars, I have a neighbor who has a "luxury" car (he paid over $35,000 for it) and it has some major bugs in the one of its systems. He gets nowhere with the dealer, car maker or anyone else that he contacts about the problem (other than the problem exists). He has been fighting the problem for about 18 months now. Now that is something worth complaining about.


Constantly bringing up OLD problems is something that I really hate about your posts. You like to live in the past (not an attack, just a fact). Its not like DISH doesn't fix problems (O.K., sometimes they take longer than any of us like); but they really do try.

As Gary pointed out, I often go on the attack after reading your posts. I guess it has become that way because I am just so damn sick and tired of your unwarranted attacks on DISH employees and their service. DISH is FAR from perfect but, on the other hard, they do not deserve the ABUSE and HATE that you ALWAYS levy at them. As you know, DISH has went out of their way to take care of your problems. They have given you special deals that no other customer have received (you know what I am talking about) yet you talk about them like they are the worst company in the world. I just think that is TOTALLY unfair and CONSTANTLY coming from a person like you (uneducated and pig-headed - not an attack, just a fact) is just not fair to the new readers of this board (if I was new and was considering DISH and read any of your posts I would never even consider them as an option). It is fine to post your bugs (I always do) but CONSTANTLY abusing DISH isn't right (where are your ethics, man?).

You and I just have to agree to disagree. For the sake of others on this board we need to stop the bickering. It really isn't accomplishing anything.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Boy that deal NO ONE ELSE HAS GOTTEN? Well lets see after a bunch of repetive RMAs they quit charging me the $15. ONCE I got a $8 or so credit when my 721 quit again, it was the third box or something.

Yeah true over 5 years ago I suggested something and they used it. Got me a invite to echo six launch. A memory I will always cherish No secret there.

Bill since your trying to make it look I have the inside track on freebies just go ahead and post it here now publically. I CHALLENGE YOU!

Simple fact I have no insider freebies

OK NOW PUT UP OR SHUTUP!!!

On my rants about E....

Remember the buggy roll out of the 721 E said publically we have learned our lesson

Then went on to roll out the 921 a real piece of work.

ANY company dumb enough to do that deserves all the ranting they get.

I see you ignore the DST change bug.... Yeah ignore them then say they are OLD.

Good cover up spin doctor.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Bill at your request I updated my signature and ran spell check too


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

Bob Haller said:


> Bill since your trying to make it look I have the inside track on freebies just go ahead and post it here now publically. I CHALLENGE YOU!
> 
> Simple fact I have no insider freebies
> 
> OK NOW PUT UP OR SHUTUP!!!


You definitely have a problem with comprehension. I didn't say that you were getting freebies. What I was referring to was the special deal you got on your 501 (from information YOU emailed me and bragged about a long time ago).

Why do you keep dragging this on. No one wants to read it.


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

Bill R said:


> Why do you keep dragging this on. No one wants to read it.


Per reply to Bob Haller-
Not necessarily true. This is like an ongoing saga, soapopera style. Keep up the good work.


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

SimpleSimon said:


> While I recommend and sell E* daily, that does not mean it can't be improved.


I totaly agree with that and I think that can be said for just about any company. I write to them all the time and tell them how they can improve service. Do they listen? Sometimes. I have seen some changes made that have improved some things but you are right, they could always do better.



SimpleSimon said:


> Most of what Haller says IS actually true, and there's no reason for it.


SOME (not nearly ALL) of what Haller says is true. His remarks about upper level management is solely based on his (uneducated) opinion and has absolutely no basis in reality. Haller often tells us that DISH is in a "crisis". Frankly, that just isn't true (look at their numbers). I also have a problem with THE WAY he says what he says. His remarks toward the engineering staff are totally unwarranted and are unnecessarily cruel.

As to WHY it happens (bugs), it seems to be something that can (and SHOULD) be corrected. Hopefully they are listening to you dealers and us customers and are making those changes. If they don't they are going to loose their customers. So far (looking at their numbers) that isn't happening.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Bill R said:


> You definitely have a problem with comprehension. I didn't say that you were getting freebies. What I was referring to was the special deal you got on your 501 (from information YOU emailed me and bragged about a long time ago).
> 
> Why do you keep dragging this on. No one wants to read it.


You MUST have me confused with someone else. I have NEVER owned a 501. Only 508s and 721s

BTW I purchased ALL my boxes from Metro AKA claude. He has given me good deals but always covered his costs.... good friend nice fellow

no freebies ever.

over the years I have owned 4900s,5000s, 4000s, 7100s and possibly some other non dvr model. I am a early adopter, but glad I didnt get into the 921 boondoggle...

my all time favorite box was the 7100, when it wasnt too buggy...


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

On upper eschelon activities remember I DID break the news FIRST of Mike Dugans departure.

sources can be anyone from the janitor to the CEO Somewhere in there is one of mine

Countiuning roll outs of bad boxes / software will at some point come back to bite them big time. 

DVRs are the FUTURE of TV. E better get their act together....


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

Bill R said:


> ... As to WHY it happens (bugs), it seems to be something that can (and SHOULD) be corrected. Hopefully they are listening to you dealers and us customers and are making those changes. If they don't they are going to loose their customers. So far (looking at their numbers) that isn't happening.


I've seen several companies whose numbers looked fine right up until they crashed, and then there was no return.

It appears that E* wants to release new boxes strictly for marketing reasons, regardless of whether it is actually needed or not (322/522).

Or maybe they think the hardware savings of the 322/522 were critical. Except that when you look at the prices, the savings are almost nonexistant.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Personally I think multi tuner boxes are the future for everyone. Perhaps marketing is coming before engineering

On a interesting note one of my 508s died today of tuner failure, it didnt see any sat. sending out a replacement and placed a bug report on my 721 who looses audio after pause reverse,.

Dealing with nice CSRs helps when you have a problem


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

Bob Haller said:


> On a interesting note one of my 508s died today of tuner failure, it didnt see any sat.


Bob,

I can't believe the number of receivers that you go through. You and I have been DISH customers for about the same number of years and I have never had to have DISH replace a receiver (I did sell one of my DishPlayers and replaced it with a 721; all my current receivers are DVRs). I guess that is why you and I look so differently at DISH. I don't have problems and I see the few bugs as minor problems just as I have with other processor based products that I own.


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## ocnier (May 8, 2003)

Can't we all just.... get along *sniff* *sniff*. Bill just tone it down man, bob's just voicing problems that have been obvious. I'm not saying he's right on everthing, but at least he's being civil. C'mon bill switch to decaff...... (shift down man, easy killer... )


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## Inaba (Jun 20, 2003)

> Haller, Echostar is doing fine IN SPITE of all your bashing, lies, and character assassination (of their programmers). People like you (most of whom are dumber than dirt and have very little education) have no idea of what it takes to bring a product like a DVR to market. Those of us in the engineering profession who do know (somewhat) what it takes really do appreciate all the hard work and dedication that DISH people put into their service. Perhaps, if your life wasn't such a mess, and you stopped taking out your frustration on the wrong people, you could step back and see that.


It's obvious you don't work in a real engineering shop. I do, and I can tell you that if we released products like Dish does, we'd be fired 2 weeks after the first market trial. Dish has it EASY... they have one piece of hardware for their software that they have to test against. Products coming out of Dish should be nearly bulletproof. While I could expect some MINOR bugs, some of the doozies I've seen on the 721 are unfathomable.

Dish has no excuse for the poor software (and hardware). They distribute this junk because they know the public will buy it, regardless of how crappy it is... so it's all about the money, not producing quality software and hardware. Dish is almost criminal in their distribution of untested/poorly tested equipment and software... unfortunately, that's pretty much the norm in a lot of industries.

Regardless of what you may think of Bob, the fact is, Dish is extremely remiss in their testing and development cycles and needs to be called to the floor on it.


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## garypen (Feb 1, 2004)

Abso-friggin-tootely!!!


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Inaba said:


> It's obvious you don't work in a real engineering shop. I do, and I can tell you that if we released products like Dish does, we'd be fired 2 weeks after the first market trial. Dish has it EASY... they have one piece of hardware for their software that they have to test against. Products coming out of Dish should be nearly bulletproof. While I could expect some MINOR bugs, some of the doozies I've seen on the 721 are unfathomable.
> 
> Dish has no excuse for the poor software (and hardware). They distribute this junk because they know the public will buy it, regardless of how crappy it is... so it's all about the money, not producing quality software and hardware. Dish is almost criminal in their distribution of untested/poorly tested equipment and software... unfortunately, that's pretty much the norm in a lot of industries.
> 
> Regardless of what you may think of Bob, the fact is, Dish is extremely remiss in their testing and development cycles and needs to be called to the floor on it.


I do work for a engineering shop that creates embedded products and I agree with most of what you say. However there are two points that I would have to disagree with.

1) Maybe at your company you would be fired 2 weeks after release, but in general that would not happen. I have worked for two major hardware vendors and that just does not happen. Maybe you would not call them major but one is a network giant and the other a major player in the storage industry. Firing is not very common in the companies i have worked for. The companies I have worked for create products that are used by Enterprise level IT organizations.

2) "Dish has it Easy". Have to disagree here also. Though they have a limited set of hardware. This hardware is connected a number of different ways and configurations. The software is deployed in embedded product space with a limited input paradigm. Product also needs to be Consumer friendly. I don't see it being "Easy" by no means.

However, I would agree that there is definite need for improvement and I have seen the same doozies that you have seen. On Bill's defense, Bob's experiences are way off the bell curve in terms of reliability and his experiences scream that there is something external to Dish that is contributing to his experience. Another possibility is that he uses the product in a why that no other use case does. I have to say that some of the basic bugs that I have seen after an initial release does point to a serious testing deficiencies.

I have been with Dish for at least 6 years and have not had one hardware failure. I thought my 721 went south a month ago and it turned out to be a software glitch. My experience has been that their hardware is reliable and there problem is in the software process. This is currently the same problem my current company has so I am familiar with some of the issues that Dish might be dealing with.

In the end, there is no excuse for what we have seen and I agree with you on that point. However, I am sure if you were to take a poll of all Dish subscribes and ask them about software quality, you would be surprised at the results.

My guess would be most people would say the software works good. Reason: difference between a power user and the average Joe. Same reason MS got where it was.. It was just good enough. If you were to roll back the clock at the early days of Windows 98 and check the windows boards, you would see posts about people calling it crap. Power users just like who hang out here. However, the general opinion of the average Joe would be that it works and is cool. I think the same situation can be applied here.

My take is this, To the average Joe the software is acceptable. To us, there is great room of improvement. Though I would like to see their software quality improved out of the gate. I have no experience as to their business model or this industry so I am try not to make the leap that Bob makes in terms of "crises" or the "death of them". A sad as it may be, it might be good enough though for us folks here it is not.

Hopefully Dish looks at boards like this and sees where the software quality goal should be. You please most of us and you will see a reduction in support calls which translate to a huge cost savings.


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## ocnier (May 8, 2003)

But WeeJava, my wife's definitely not a power user and we have had multiple failures with the 921. I feel inaba is closer to the mark on this point... sorry man


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Well a new day a new bug My 721s guide is all nicely green EVERY CHANNEL. Unfortunately I cant watch the unsubscribed in the all channel guide. But its annoying having the red gone, intermittently. no its not my tv... anyone else see this? for us its a new bug...

yeah were power users... jens cooking shows and stuff maxing out the 75 timer limit.

still some bugs are just way too easy, and should of been foiund and fixed before release.

well the hoiuse sale has hit a snag. the buyer may be backing out refusing to sign a last mortage paper before closing, which was is still scheduled for this friday.

I honestly dont know whats going to happen Its VERY stressful here.

I want to go to phoenix for thanksgiving but havent bought a ticket for fear of a sale delay. my dad is 75 and in poor health. 

STRESSED> THAT BE US


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## ocnier (May 8, 2003)

Bob Haller said:


> Well a new day a new bug My 721s guide is all nicely green EVERY CHANNEL. Unfortunately I cant watch the unsubscribed in the all channel guide. But its annoying having the red gone, intermittently. no its not my tv... anyone else see this? for us its a new bug...
> 
> yeah were power users... jens cooking shows and stuff maxing out the 75 timer limit.
> 
> ...


Bob, good luck man, just hang in there. I think you'll make it to phoenix in time.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

ocnier said:


> But WeeJava, my wife's definitely not a power user and we have had multiple failures with the 921. I feel inaba is closer to the mark on this point... sorry man


Closer to the mark in what way? I was not disagree with Inaba on the issues of software quality. I disagreed with Inabe on the points of "Dish" having it Easy and most people would be fired two weeks after release if they let software with the quality that Dish does out.

On your 921 comment, what do you define as multiple failures? Are you talking about hardware problems or running into software defects? If you are referring to software defects, I never said non-power user would not run into them. My opinion is that they would run into them less and would not be a frustrated by them. But it also depends on the individual and their level of tolerence. I was also talking in general based on my experience talking to people that have Dish.


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