# Dish DVR standards



## LanMan (Nov 10, 2003)

I believe that Dish needs to create standards for their DVRs, they are wasting a lot of time and money building new features in to all of their different DVRs with different operating systems and different GUIs. 

If they created standards and adhered to them they would:

1.	be faster to market on new receivers
2.	be faster to market on new features
3.	have more reliable receivers
4.	eliminate a lot of the “receiver envy” caused when a Dish customer sees a better interface with “cool” features that is never going to be “ported” over to their brand new receiver. (Dish would save a lot of money not having to offer disgruntled existing customers free or heavily discounted equipment) 
5.	have greater customer satisfaction due to all of the above (less churn)

I know that over time some new receivers would have features that the old hardware just couldn’t support but to have all these different new receivers with completely different GUIs and features is confusing the customer. An example of this is I have two neighbors who I convinced to sign up with Dish using the ClubDish promotion. They both asked for the same thing, two TVs hooked up and a DVR. The first family received a DVR 510 just like mine and was very happy with it until the other family a week later got a DVR 522 which looks so much better and more advanced. The DVR 510’s OS and GUI looks very dated when compared to the DVR 522 and these are both new current production units. 

I know that it takes time for a technology to mature and standards to be created but I think it would benefit Dish greatly to pick a hardware platform and OS consolidate your development staff and build the best line of DVRs in the industry. (Linux would be the safest bet and it is already running the 522)

Doesn't this make sense? Am I crazy? 

Dan


----------



## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

LanMan said:


> I believe that Dish needs to create standards for their DVRs, they are wasting a lot of time and money building new features in to all of their different DVRs with different operating systems and different GUIs.
> 
> If they created standards and adhered to them they would:
> 
> ...


Dan,

It makes sense and Dish does tend to do this to some extent.

721, 921 look and feel are similar. 
522, 942 look the same. (Hopefully feel the same).

But there is always technology overlap as technology progresses. If you were to set a UI Look and feel standard today. 2 yrs down the road that standard would look dull. The look and feel as receivers progress should progress with the technology. Expecting a 508 to look like a 522 is not reasonable. The 522 is newer and therfore the UI is updated. The 721 is newer than the 501 so the UI looks better there. It is a case of Dish trying to upgrade the look as it introduces new receivers. Similar to Windows 3.1, 95, and XP. I do find the the feel 508, 721, 921, 811 (All units I have used) seem pretty consistent. There is some differences but pretty much if you have used a 508 you can move to a 721 without a lot of training. (To me this is the most important aspect of the product line that Dish needs to keep in mind).

Where the biggest problem lies in Dish as I see it, is it has a number of software development environments within the company so they are duplicating effort. This is not uncommon in a hardware centric company (Hell software companies also have this problem). Little islands of software development doing specific tasks and not sharing code. This is where Dish needs some reorginization in my opinion. As to OS selection, standardizing on one makes sense but might not meet all their goals. They should try to minimize this, but basically what I see is typicaly company software evolution common to many companies.

1) Create a company. (Company uses a set of tools). 
2) Expand into other geographic areas (Other areas pick their tools) 
3) Acquire other companies that are currently using their tools.

What you describe is what I think all software companies want to do but as time goes on and acquisitions, personal choice, and technology advancements interfer it is very hard to achieve.

The best thing Dish could do is structure the group into functional areas so that common code can be used across platforms. I thought this is what was happening with NBR but from what I can see it did not pan out.


----------



## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Standardizing on the 500 series base software should help. The 721 921 will have no future boxes using this platform.<kinda sad the 721s interface is nicer>

I am part of the problem If everytimer E sent out BAD code 10% of the subs using it CANCELLED SERVICE E would straighten up their act.

They are taking the low cost path and all of us suffer....


----------



## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

Hey, maybe it is time to use a tried and true method of fixing broken management systems.

BUY a weaker competitor who DOES get it right and make them do it for you. With D* ditching Tivo, it might be just the time to buy them and have them overhaul E*'s systems.

Now that Cable is getting into the act with their new PVR offerings their standalone units will be chasing an ever shrinking market. It is join or die time for them. They can either continue to try and play hardball (like Pegasus tried to), or watch after they are crippled and then have terms dictated to them (hmmmm... also like Pegasus)


----------



## LanMan (Nov 10, 2003)

Nothing would make me happier than if Dish would buy Tivo. I think eventually most Tivo subs would migrate over to Dish due to their STRONG brand loyality. 

Everytime I hear news about the new DirecTV DVR I think "What are you waiting for Charlie?".

Dan


----------



## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Bob Haller said:


> Standardizing on the 500 series base software should help. The 721 921 will have no future boxes using this platform.<kinda sad the 721s interface is nicer>
> 
> I am part of the problem If everytimer E sent out BAD code 10% of the subs using it CANCELLED SERVICE E would straighten up their act.
> 
> They are taking the low cost path and all of us suffer....


Bob. just because the 522 and 952 are common code bases does not mean they are standardizing on this code base in the future. Do you have information on the contrary.

I have not seen the 522 in action, but from what I have seen the UI is nicer looking than the 721. I have both the 721 and 921 for reference. Also have a 508 and an 811. (Going to get ride of the 508).

as to subs leaving from BAD code. It is a small percentage and given the amount of effort it takes to switch it would take a lot more than a bad code drop to get me to switch. It is not always about the quality of the receiver. That is one factor in why someone uses the service.


----------



## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

BobMurdoch said:


> Hey, maybe it is time to use a tried and true method of fixing broken management systems.
> 
> BUY a weaker competitor who DOES get it right and make them do it for you. With D* ditching Tivo, it might be just the time to buy them and have them overhaul E*'s systems.
> 
> Now that Cable is getting into the act with their new PVR offerings their standalone units will be chasing an ever shrinking market. It is join or die time for them. They can either continue to try and play hardball (like Pegasus tried to), or watch after they are crippled and then have terms dictated to them (hmmmm... also like Pegasus)


That is not always the tried and true method. I have been involved in a number of companies that have attempted this and because of corporate culture difference it does not work. I am sure TIVO also has some contract obligations with OEMs that would make this aquisition very tricky.

At this point I am not sure if buying TIVO would be a huge help. This would take a very good execuation plan and I am not sure E* would be handle this correctly. They don't have a lot of experience in this area.


----------



## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

I would very much like to see Dish standardize on the 522 platform for all future receivers. It's by far the nicest interface that I've seen.


----------



## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

E announced publically they are stasndardizing ALL future DVRs on the 500 series code.

This is GOOD, bug fixes and problems can be learned from, and limited resources $$ all spent on ONE BETTER PLATFORM.

This is why the 721 wouldnt be getting name based, its the end of the line for this platform...


----------



## finniganps (Jan 23, 2004)

It's really ashame that the 721 won't bet NBR since it's such a nice receiver. I love it with the duel tuners and the UI is nicer than the 508.

Bob - when are you cutting down that tree and getting Direct?


----------



## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Bob Haller said:


> E announced publically they are stasndardizing ALL future DVRs on the 500 series code.
> 
> This is GOOD, bug fixes and problems can be learned from, and limited resources $$ all spent on ONE BETTER PLATFORM.
> 
> This is why the 721 wouldnt be getting name based, its the end of the line for this platform...


Were was this announced Bob? I don't recall seeing this. Can you provide a link?

500 series?? The 522 is not based off the 508 code from what I understand.


----------



## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

BobMurdoch said:


> Hey, maybe it is time to use a tried and true method of fixing broken management systems.
> 
> BUY a weaker competitor who DOES get it right and make them do it for you. With D* ditching Tivo, it might be just the time to buy them and have them overhaul E*'s systems...


That's a great idea in theory, but in practice.....maybe not so much. The unfortunate reality is that the reason D* is ditching Tivo is because they are tired of ponying-up that $1.23 every month to Tivo (per sub). They aren't bringing in their own ringer just because they think they can do it better (they probably don't think that)...on the contrary, they simply don't want to leave any money on the table.

E* is already so arrogant that they actually think they ARE doing it better, but as a recent sub to both vendors and an 8-year sub to E*, I can assure you that they are a legend in their own minds at best. Even they must know deep inside that Tivo (and Replay) kicks their ass, but they would never admit that, let alone let Tivo make them its *****.

I think the smart move for Tivo is to make a HD standalone, which would essentially be the same thing as the HD Dtivo minus 2 sat tuners (which leaves even more room for an extra 300GB of storage). HD is fixin' to 'splode all over everybody in the next 18 months, and there is a looming PVR vacuum already forming. The great majority of HD owners who record HD OTA already do that with, you guessed it, the HD DTivo, whether they have DBS service or not.

The SA HD Tivo could be simpler and cheaper than a HD DTivo, and would have no PQ issues similar to the current SD SA version. Not only that, such a Tivo would not be handcuffed feature-wise, as is the DTivo due to DirecTV's pressures and restrictions. The HD DTivo and the CableCard HD Tivo are already here. With D* forcing Tivo out of DTV, the SA HD Tivo should be a no-brainer.


----------



## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

WeeJavaDude said:


> Were was this announced Bob? I don't recall seeing this. Can you provide a link?
> 
> 500 series?? The 522 is not based off the 508 code from what I understand.


Around the time of the last tech chat, it was announced or leaked the 921 was the end of the line of the 721 921 code base. the new high def box is based on the 522 model group. eldon is ending its involvement with future boxes, eldojn was thr 721 921 group, but never involved in the 500 series boxes.

The 522 is loosely based on the 510 software. Sorry I dont have a iink but am very sure of this info.


----------



## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Bob Haller said:


> Around the time of the last tech chat, it was announced or leaked the 921 was the end of the line of the 721 921 code base. the new high def box is based on the 522 model group. eldon is ending its involvement with future boxes, eldojn was thr 721 921 group, but never involved in the 500 series boxes.
> 
> The 522 is loosely based on the 510 software. Sorry I dont have a iink but am very sure of this info.


Announced or leaked??? Hmmm well I equate leaked without any actual proof or official statement from Dish as rumor or speculation. You can take it as gospal I will rather not at this point. As the 522 loosely based on the 510 software, once again I have not heard this to be a fact or read anything that would confirm this. Do you have some insight into the evolution of Dish's code base or is this leaked information also that you have picked up off this board.

Well anycase.. I am well aware of 921/721 code base and that the 942 is based on the 522. Just as the 921 is based on the 721.

Well without a link where Dish official states that future DVRs will be based on the 522 code base, I will take your your statement as the 522 being the code base for all future DVRs as speculation. Not saying it wont be. Just that I don't think Dish as officially stated it.


----------



## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

You might ask or check old threads at scotts site, his info agreed with what I heard. At the time it was discussed a good bit, its likely part of old threads here too.


----------



## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Bob Haller said:


> You might ask or check old threads at scotts site, his info agreed with what I heard. At the time it was discussed a good bit, its likely part of old threads here too.


So what you are saying is that it has not been stated by anyone official at Dish. I did a quick search here and on scotts site and I coudl not find anything that looked official.

I would be suprised that Dish would make such a statement. It might be true and then again it might not. I am sure Dish's goal is to reuse as much possible as they move forward. However, If there is a new set of widgets on a new platform I would not be suprised that Dish just ports the 522 code over. To me this is a lot different that common code platform for all future DVRs. A lot different.


----------

