# Just got Vip622 and HD and not happy with picture quality



## Guitar1969 (Oct 19, 2006)

I am a newbie to the HD scene, but I just had the VIP622 installed with HDMI to my Panasonic 50" Plasma(Viera - 1080i), and I find the picture quality horrendously bad compared to my Directv standard programming(R10 PVR hooked up via S video). Am I missing something - The picture is extremely pixilized(I tried both 720 and 1080i settings on 622, but it didn't help), and blurry. I am in the Los Angeles market; the installers said I had a stronger than usual HD signal.As the installers were finishing up I started complaining and said if this is the best it gets, then I want them to remove it and am going back to my Directv, but by then they had taken down my Directv dish. They seemed to be clueless on the HD quality thing and told me to call CS.

I checked the software and its L365. Is there something I can try - possibly Component cables instead of HDMI because at this point I am bummed that I am paying more for worse picture quality.

Any thoughts or ideas. I appreciate any help.

Thanks


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

What channels are you watching that look bad?

SD channels often look worse through component or HDMI on a large HDTV because it shows the flaws in those signals. Some folks run a S-video connection to use when watching the SD channels for that reason.

If it is HD channels you are seeing problems, then I would be concerned, because they should look as good or better than what you had with DirecTV.

OTA (if you have an antenna connected) should look the best by comparison unless the OTA in your area is not up to par.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

First off what channels are you watching? Is your TV set to Vivid mode? If so, change the mode to something other than burn mode. I assumed we are talking your experiences with watching HD content. 

What channels are you experiences PQ issues. Is it all channels. Look at HD Discovery as a good starting point.. How does the quality look there. 

If you are seeing night and day differences between Dish and Direct HD quality, something is not configured properly... 

I threw out a couple of possibilities. Also make sure you viewing your Component or HDMI inputs and not the svideo. 

Are you talking about SD channel content? 

Answer to these questions should help pinpoint what you are experiencing. I suggest also searching this forum because we have had some other threads that sound similar. Might provide some ideas of what to try.


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

Something isn't kosher if you are having a lot of problems with pixelizing on all the channels. Go into the install menu and tell us what level of signal you are getting on 110/119/129. It sounds to me that even though the installers said you had a high signal level that it isn't really that good. Also it could be that you have a faulty unit.


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## rickaren (Jan 22, 2003)

You should be saying WOW on HD with DISH. Re-check your settings for the VIP 622 DVR and your new TV and running of cables.


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## Guitar1969 (Oct 19, 2006)

whatchel1 said:


> Something isn't kosher if you are having a lot of problems with pixelizing on all the channels. Go into the install menu and tell us what level of signal you are getting on 110/119/129. It sounds to me that even though the installers said you had a high signal level that it isn't really that good. Also it could be that you have a faulty unit.


My signal strengths are as follows:
110 West = 89%
119 West = 121%
129% = 57%
So is 57% on 129 too low - what HD Channels would this affect. Should I call E and have a tech come out and realign it/

As someone mentioned above, I reduced the picture color from Vivid and it appears better, but it isn't jaw dropping.

I expect to see pixilation on Sd channles, but for example, Discover HD, some of the program and appears good sometimes but sometimes its unclear in other parts- NFLHD looks bad, etc. Do providers sometimes mix HD and SD contnet on an HD channel(besides commercials) - maybe that's where I am finding fault.

Sorry for all the questions - Just not sure what the issue is.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Here is what I would suggest.

1) 57% on 129 is really low. This could explain picture break up on some of your channels if you are having it.

2) Is your TV in any zoom mode.. That would blow the picture up and make it softer.

3) Yes... HD channels will mix HD content with SD content. DiscoveryHD usually does not so that is a good one to use. Use HDNet also when trying to get a feel. NFL HD has a lot of SD content that is shown. Not a good one to use for comparison.

4) IS there a huge difference between your SD and HD experience? There should be. 

5) Another suggestion would be to get a DVD calibration disk like AVIA and calibrate your settings... 

6) What is the sharpness set on your TV. Turn it all the way down and see if that removed the pixelization. Sharpness can have a bad effect on digitial content.

Like I said.. Do a search on this thread for Picture Quality and you should get some thread for suggestions. I just typed some random thoughts of things to check.. 

Like others said.. you should see some good HD quality stuff. Do you have OTA.. If so, what does the PQ of your OTQ look like. 

I am in SoCal myself and have a 60" LCD Sony and my HD looks excellent. One thing to keep in mind... HD is still a mixed back.. Some of it looks amazing and some of it looks ok... Reason is that some of it is bad transfers, cheap conversations etc... Not all looks amazing.. but you should be able to find the good stuff on HDNet and Discovery and if those are not impressing then something is still not right.


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## Guitar1969 (Oct 19, 2006)

Ron Barry said:


> Here is what I would suggest.
> 
> 1) 57% on 129 is really low. This could explain picture break up on some of your channels if you are having it.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the ideas - So what HD channels would be affected by the low signal on 129 (I just checked it again and it is now 52%. Should this warrant a return visit from an installer.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

I would say so.. Check all the transponders for 129 and report those numbers back so someone that is more knowledgeable. As for Channels. Well you can see that on the Dish chart at(will take a bit to download). If you are having one channel that you seeing a lot of issues.. Use the Dish Chart to find the Dish and transponder then use your Dish signal strength screen to see what the value is.

http://ekb.dbstalk.com/dishlist.htm

However, I should note that with digital signal the symptom is usually audio loss and lot of micro-blocking. At this point I am not sure if what you are seeing is pixelization or what I would call graininess... Pixelization would be bigger pieces of the picture breaking up while graininess looks like what happens when you take a digital picture and apply a unsharp filter that is set too high or when you shoot a ISO 1600 picture in low light.

Sorry but that is the best way I can describe the difference... what are you seeing?


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## bruin95 (Apr 23, 2006)

Ron Barry said:


> Here is what I would suggest.
> 
> 5) Another suggestion would be to get a DVD calibration disk like AVIA and calibrate your settings...


The problem with that is that you're "calibrating" your DVD player and NOT the TV with those discs.


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## DAG (Feb 7, 2006)

Take a digital photo and post it here so we can see what you are talking about instead of guessing.


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## trpltongue (Dec 4, 2006)

bruin95 said:


> The problem with that is that you're "calibrating" your DVD player and NOT the TV with those discs.


Not really. The changes are being made on the TV, not on the DVD player. However, you are right in that you are calibrating to the DVD players output, and not the SAT receiver's output. The DVD player and SAT box most likely put out slightly different signals so calibrating to the DVD player will not be optimum for the SAT receiver, but it will be a MARKED improvement over out of the box TV calibration and will potentially save you from burning in your new plasma.

I think HDnet shows some test patterns to calibrate your TV to the SAT receiver. Not sure what time they're on, but I think it's early in the morning. You could record them and use them to calibrate your SAT output.


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## dbconsultant (Sep 13, 2005)

trpltongue said:


> I think HDnet shows some test patterns to calibrate your TV to the SAT receiver. Not sure what time they're on, but I think it's early in the morning. You could record them and use them to calibrate your SAT output.


I used the HDnet test patterns on my Sony 34" xbr and it worked great to fix the overscan problem I was having.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

bruin95 said:


> The problem with that is that you're "calibrating" your DVD player and NOT the TV with those discs.


Well it is better than nothing and will get you close with your 622. You could get the TV professionally calibrated.. that would be the other option. I consider AVIA the cheap mans calibration and it was a good first pass for me. ofcourse you might need to do some cable swapping

Another other option is to use the HDNet pattern but I never done that one and now sure how much value it would provide.


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

Next HD NET test pattern is coming up Sunday 6:50 AM EST. Get the signal back up 52 isn't worth a S**t. If they can't get it into more than the 60's then it is time for a 2nd dish to peak up the signal on 129.


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## Guitar1969 (Oct 19, 2006)

dbconsultant said:


> I used the HDnet test patterns on my Sony 34" xbr and it worked great to fix the overscan problem I was having.


Sorry for the questions - But where would I find instructions on how to use the HDNet calibration patterns if I record them(Does it include instructions in the program)

This is all new to me, but I appreciate everybodies help


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## Guitar1969 (Oct 19, 2006)

Ron Barry said:


> I would say so.. Check all the transponders for 129 and report those numbers back so someone that is more knowledgeable. As for Channels. Well you can see that on the Dish chart at(will take a bit to download). If you are having one channel that you seeing a lot of issues.. Use the Dish Chart to find the Dish and transponder then use your Dish signal strength screen to see what the value is.
> 
> http://ekb.dbstalk.com/dishlist.htm
> 
> ...


Graininess is what I am seeing, but I am not sure if my expectations are too high.

For example,I was watching NFLHD and the picture looked awful but my colleage mentioned al ot of those games could be in SD rebroadcasted in HD which would explain why they looked bad.
- although my first recorded program(Heroes - Network HD) had green blocks and freezes in a few places as well, but I was messing with the reciever and might have bumped it which caused it)


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## astropin (Nov 23, 2004)

Guitar1969 said:


> Graininess is what I am seeing, but I am not sure if my expectations are too high.
> 
> For example,I was watching NFLHD and the picture looked awful but my colleage mentioned al ot of those games could be in SD rebroadcasted in HD which would explain why they looked bad.
> - although my first recorded program(Heroes - Network HD) had green blocks and freezes in a few places as well, but I was messing with the reciever and might have bumped it which caused it)


NFLHD does not show much in actual HD. Go to Discovery Channel HD to get a good Idea of what HD should look like. HDnet is another good one to look at. Monday Night Football on ESPNHD always looks good to me.....but again ESPNHD also shows a lot of SD content.

Green Blocks and freezes sound like signal dropout to me (99.99% that is signal loss). Network HD is "over the air" and if you don't have a strong solid signal you will get green blocks and freezes. However that being said if you do have a strong signal then over the air HD should show you a fantastic picture (providing the content is being presented in HD.)


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Good Sample is also NBC Sunday night game. For some reason that always looks good. Also... You have a 50" TV.. How far are you viewing it from. Viewing distances also is a factor in perceived PQ. If you are 4 to 5' from the set you want find the picture as appealing as 9 to 10' from the set. 

Definitely check sat strength for the channel you are getting heroes form. Also.. Still need to look at your 129 numbers. the number you threw out is too low.


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## Guitar1969 (Oct 19, 2006)

Ron Barry said:


> Good Sample is also NBC Sunday night game. For some reason that always looks good. Also... You have a 50" TV.. How far are you viewing it from. Viewing distances also is a factor in perceived PQ. If you are 4 to 5' from the set you want find the picture as appealing as 9 to 10' from the set.
> 
> Definitely check sat strength for the channel you are getting heroes form. Also.. Still need to look at your 129 numbers. the number you threw out is too low.


Here are my Transponder strengths on 129:
1 = 50
2 = 56
4 = 60
5 = 61
6 = 51
7 = 56
8 = 59
9 = 62
10 = 78
11 = 56
12 = 59
13 = 76
16 = 58
17 = 62
18 = 50
19 = 80 
21 = 61
22 = 55
23 = 58
27 = 57
30 = 79
31 = 86
32 = 61

I am in the Los Angeles Market so I am not sure how these strengths affect me, although according to the dish chart I downloaded I am recieving quite a bit of content from 129.

I am set to record the HDNet tsat pattern to see if that helps, but any assistance you can provide on whether or not these signal strengths need to be addressed by Dish Techs would be appreciated.

Thanks


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

There is a thread on DBS Talks that has that info. Just Do a search for it.


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## dbconsultant (Sep 13, 2005)

Guitar1969 said:


> Sorry for the questions - But where would I find instructions on how to use the HDNet calibration patterns if I record them(Does it include instructions in the program)
> 
> This is all new to me, but I appreciate everybodies help


I found out how to get into my tv's service menu from a posting on AVSForum.com - be very very careful to write down any settings before you change them because messing in the service menu can really cause you some major problems. Also make sure you know how to return it to the factory set-up in case you need to (I reset mine 3 times before I got it right).

The HDNet test patterns have audio at the start of each one to tell you some basics on how to use them. I only used the one for calibrating my overscan but now I can see the news crawls while in Partial Zoom.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Guitar1969 said:


> Here are my Transponder strengths on 129:
> 1 = 50
> 2 = 56
> 4 = 60
> ...


Since I am in the LA Market too. North OC. Here are the number I got. I placed mine to yours..

1 = 50 60
2 = 56 60
4 = 60 80 
5 = 61 68
6 = 51 57
7 = 56 58
8 = 59 77
9 = 62 81
10 = 78 82
11 = 56 58
12 = 59 80
13 = 76 81
16 = 58 70
17 = 62 71
18 = 50 53
19 = 80 80
21 = 61 68
22 = 55 55
23 = 58 56
27 = 57 54
30 = 79 76
31 = 86 83
32 = 61 ??

Looks like my lower numbers are higher some by a good margin and your upper numbers are a few points high than mine. I guess the next step is to look at your Dish HD locals transponders and see we are getting. I have had break up in the past but have not seen it recently.

By the way.. I see two issues. One is the grainyness and personally I think that it might calibration/environment related and the other is the break up. Break up is most likely caused by your 129 strength.


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## Guitar1969 (Oct 19, 2006)

Ron Barry said:


> Since I am in the LA Market too. North OC. Here are the number I got. I placed mine to yours..
> 
> 1 = 50 60
> 2 = 56 60
> ...


I think I have come to accept the picture quality after making some adjustments to my Plasma, and finding true HD content, but I still seem to be experiencing ofter image studdering/Artifacts, and image movement that hestiates a bit(like slow motion), and once in awhile audio dropout - not just on 129 sat. Is this just a result of 622 firmware bugs that will be resolved or is this how it is This happends much more frequently than my old SD Directv service .

Not sure what my expectations should be


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

Guitar1969 said:


> I think I have come to accept the picture quality after making some adjustments to my Plasma, and finding true HD content, but I still seem to be experiencing ofter image studdering/Artifacts, and image movement that hestiates a bit(like slow motion), and once in awhile audio dropout - not just on 129 sat. Is this just a result of 622 firmware bugs that will be resolved or is this how it is This happends much more frequently than my old SD Directv service .
> 
> Not sure what my expectations should be


You really need to get the dish peaked so that the signals are no lower than 60 on the channels that are now in the 50's.


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## koralis (Aug 10, 2005)

Ron Barry said:


> Here is what I would suggest.
> 5) Another suggestion would be to get a DVD calibration disk like AVIA and calibrate your settings...
> 
> 6) What is the sharpness set on your TV. Turn it all the way down and see if that removed the pixelization. Sharpness can have a bad effect on digitial content.


Pretty much all digital processing is a bad thing for HD sets in my limited experiance. It's much worse for SD material shown on an HD set though.

I've spent a signifigant amount of time in my Samsung service menu turning off most of the processing and tweaking colors (hint: Samsung's blue is waaaay too green. By setting Green in the DNIe menu to 480 rather than 512 my gradient is nearly smooth. Check test patterns for details.) Much of the processing is adding artifical edge-enhancement and "color pooling" so that similar colors near each other are set to the same value, which is probably causing your "pixellation" issue. How much tweaking your TV allows I don't know. Go to http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=40
and ask how to get into the service menu and if they have suggestions to improve things.

Seriously, my picture is 100% better on SD material since tweaking it from out of the box.

One thing to keep in mind... for many TVs, each input has a completely different set of memorized settings, so tweaking with the Avia DVD means that you've only fixed the DVD input. You'd have to copy the settings to the Dish input to get the same result (and things will be off just a bit since the source color is different, etc.)

The svideo input is definitely different... not only different settings, but a completely different hardware input, etc. Just to check things out, you could take an svideo output into the same jack that your directtv was hooked into. I would imagine it would look similar.


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## mikeyinokc (Jan 11, 2006)

Guitar1969.....I bought the same model Panasonic as yours about 3 weeks ago, and I am also using the 622 receiver. Here is a link to the A/V Forum, where there are several threads on setting up a Panasonic plasma. Reading through those has really helped me to get mine setup.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=40

The picture on a new tv comes set up pretty hot. Move it off of vivid mode, and tweak the "picture", and brightness levels.

Get Dish to come back out and work on your signal strength. That along with tweaking your picture and you should see a marked improvement.


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## Guitar1969 (Oct 19, 2006)

whatchel1 said:


> You really need to get the dish peaked so that the signals are no lower than 60 on the channels that are now in the 50's.


Thanks for all of the advice - I spoke to Dish Tech support last night(after they finally found my new account- They kept saying my account was closed, because my phone number was attached to my old Dish account from years ago - they are pretty lame)

The Technician seemed to not be the shapest knife in the box, but agreed that my 129 signals were too low(should all be in the 70s) so a service tech is coming out Monday to realign my dish.

Do you think I can send them a bill for the 5 plus hours I need to take off of work again to get them do what they should have done at the initial installation - Frustrating.

Thanks for the help - I'll advise on the results


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## SonicBee777 (Aug 2, 2006)

Guitar1969 said:


> Thanks for all of the advice ...
> Do you think I can send them a bill for the 5 plus hours I need to take off of work again to get them do what they should have done at the initial installation -


!rolling !rolling !rolling


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

Guitar1969;
Do you think I can send them a bill for the 5 plus hours I need to take off of work
[/QUOTE said:


> Actually would like to know where they would tell you to stick it.


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## Guitar1969 (Oct 19, 2006)

The tech just realigned my dish 1000 to improve my 129 strengths(at the expense of my 119 signal strengths a bit but it is still really high) and said this is the best he can get it(said itwent from 20% to 35%) - Initial strenghts are on left , new ones on right:
1 = 50 60
2 = 56 60
4 = 60 81
5 = 61 73
6 = 51 56
7 = 56 61
8 = 59 77
9 = 62 83
10 = 78 80
11 = 56 61
12 = 59 79
13 = 76 65
16 = 58 66
17 = 62 73
18 = 50 53
19 = 80 85
21 = 61 71
22 = 55 56
23 = 58 61
27 = 57 61
30 = 79 83
31 = 86 90
32 = 61 68

Looks lke quite an improvement so hopefully it will solve my problems - He did say they only way to improve it further would be for dish to install a "Super Dish" instead of the 1000 which I guess picks up 4 satellites,but he said they very seldom will do this. He also said that the 622 still has issues but mainly in the area of audio bugs.

I also am going to put a laptop cooling pad/fans on the 622 to help with heat dissipation which others have reported help with freezeups on the 622.


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## Guitar1969 (Oct 19, 2006)

whatchel1 said:


> Actually would like to know where they would tell you to stick it.


Cool thing is the tech came right at 12pm for a 12-5pm windows - blew me away.


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## Guitar1969 (Oct 19, 2006)

mikeyinokc said:


> Guitar1969.....I bought the same model Panasonic as yours about 3 weeks ago, and I am also using the 622 receiver. Here is a link to the A/V Forum, where there are several threads on setting up a Panasonic plasma. Reading through those has really helped me to get mine setup.
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=40
> 
> ...


Thanks for the tip - I'll check it out. I already tookthe Pani off of Vivid for the burnin phase(first 100hrs) and have the sharpness turned way down for the HD quality which helped alot. Hopefully there are some other nuggets of info in the threads aside from going into the 622 setup menus for screen adjustment, which I don't feel comfortable doing yet.


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## donmurray (Dec 15, 2006)

I improved the SD PQ on my Toshiba rear projection by setting the 622 System Setup, HDTV setup to 1080i and 16x9. This reduced the pic size on the tv when viewing an SD source, so that naturally improves the resolution. SD now has black bars on the side to make the image 4x3, and on some sources smaller black bars top and bottom. Also made the TV pic size button "not available", so now the 622 is the sole control of screen format. HD sources are full screen.

Using the 622 format button I'm set at the "standard" setting.


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

Guitar1969 said:


> He did say they only way to improve it further would be for dish to install a "Super Dish" instead of the 1000 which I guess picks up 4 satellites, but he said they very seldom will do this.


Could it be very seldom because SuperDISH isn't designed for 129 (it gets 110, 119 and either 105 or 121)? Some mad scientist types have strapped on an LNB for 129, but there's no "out of the box" option. He may have meant Dish 1000+ which gets 110, 118.75 (only a few need this), 119 and 129. The other way to get more signal from 129 is to pick it up with a separate, possibly larger, dish of its own.


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## JohnL (Apr 1, 2002)

Guitar1969 said:


> I am a newbie to the HD scene, but I just had the VIP622 installed with HDMI to my Panasonic 50" Plasma(Viera - 1080i), and I find the picture quality horrendously bad compared to my Directv standard programming(R10 PVR hooked up via S video). Am I missing something - The picture is extremely pixilized(I tried both 720 and 1080i settings on 622, but it didn't help), and blurry. I am in the Los Angeles market; the installers said I had a stronger than usual HD signal.As the installers were finishing up I started complaining and said if this is the best it gets, then I want them to remove it and am going back to my Directv, but by then they had taken down my Directv dish. They seemed to be clueless on the HD quality thing and told me to call CS.
> 
> I checked the software and its L365. Is there something I can try - possibly Component cables instead of HDMI because at this point I am bummed that I am paying more for worse picture quality.
> 
> ...


Guitar,

This might sound overly simplistic, but have you set your VIP622 to output 720p or 1080i instead of the default 480i setting.

John


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## Guitar1969 (Oct 19, 2006)

JohnL said:


> Guitar,
> 
> This might sound overly simplistic, but have you set your VIP622 to output 720p or 1080i instead of the default 480i setting.
> 
> John


It's been on 1080i since day 1


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