# No guide data for Fox 35 Orlando OTA



## sthor (Oct 1, 2006)

While programming the bowl games into my 622 yesterday I realized I am not getting guide data for OTA WOFL 35-01 Fox in Orlando Florida. This shows in my guide as 35-01. I subscribe to locals from Dish. Dish WOFL 35 Fox shows as 35-00 in my Dish Guide and I do receive programming data for 35-00. (See attached screenshots of guide)

I receive program data OK for the OTA versions the local ABC,CBS & NBC affiliates WESH 2, WKMG 6 and WFTV 9 as well as most of the PBS and independents.

Channel 35-01 OTA has a signal strength of 93% and a beautiful HD picture; just no guide data.

I called Dish Tech Support last night and spent about an hour with them. They elevated it to a 2nd tier tech who could not figure it out. She said she would notify engineering and maybe they could fix it. They did not offer to let me know if they find the answer. 

I called engineering at WOFL Channel 35 this afternoon. They were interested and listened carefully and said thay would call me back.

This is a major problem for me with Dish if it cannot be resolved. Since Dish does not offer HD locals in the Orlando market I need WOFL 35-01 OTA to get Fox HD for sports programming, in particular NASCAR. 

I can manually set timers (ala VCR programming) for 35-01 but it is a major PITA. I have also read here at DBS Talk of problems with corrupt recordings when there was no guide data on OTA's. That would be a deal killer for the 622 if true.

Is anybody else experiencing this?


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## saltrek (Oct 22, 2005)

Yes - it's been like this for some time - over a year, i would say. Don't know what the problem is. I hope your efforts yields some results.


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## sthor (Oct 1, 2006)

saltrek said:


> Yes - it's been like this for some time - over a year, i would say. Don't know what the problem is. I hope your efforts yields some results.


Did you complain to Dish or WOFL 35 at the time? Did they have any response?


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## Hall (Mar 4, 2004)

There's no point complaining to WOFL, is there ?? The 622 doesn't read PSIP data. That guide data is "filled in" by Dish Network, not WOFL.


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## sthor (Oct 1, 2006)

Hall said:


> There's no point complaining to WOFL, is there ?? The 622 doesn't read PSIP data. That guide data is "filled in" by Dish Network, not WOFL.


Neither Dish nor WOFL seemed to understand the problem. Both said they would check it. Perhaos there is some linkage that must occur?


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## Hall (Mar 4, 2004)

The people at WOFL, if they're unfamiliar with the 622, probably assume it reads the PSIP data that they send with the broadcast. I'm guessing they checked that their setup is up and running, maybe even rebooted it, and are wondering why no one else has complained, not to mention that their in-house digital receiver has the guide data filled in.


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## tammyandlee (Apr 22, 2002)

It's my biggest issue with the 622. When the price increases hit I am going to cancel locals and just do manual timers. No point in paying 5.99 for incomplete guide data.


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## sthor (Oct 1, 2006)

Hall said:


> The people at WOFL, if they're unfamiliar with the 622, probably assume it reads the PSIP data that they send with the broadcast. I'm guessing they checked that their setup is up and running, maybe even rebooted it, and are wondering why no one else has complained, not to mention that their in-house digital receiver has the guide data filled in.


Do you think the problem is at Dish then? I am new to Dish although I had a DirecTivo for 6 years until switching to the 622 earlier this month.

What is Dish not doing that they need to do so I will get the guide data for OTA WOFL 35-01 ?

Thanks for your patience!


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## tammyandlee (Apr 22, 2002)

Support PSIP or get there guide info from the same people as Tivo Zaptoit.com


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## sthor (Oct 1, 2006)

tammyandlee said:


> Support PSIP or get there guide info from the same people as Tivo Zaptoit.com


That change sounds larger in scope than what appears to be needed. Probably unlikely.

I don't mind paying for the locals, I just want the guide data for 35-01 WOFL OTA.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

And supporting PSIP EPG is not the answer. Do a search and there are some discussions on that for sure...

I would email Dish and let them know.... Tough to get all things different configurations correct....


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## Hall (Mar 4, 2004)

sthor said:


> Do you think the problem is at Dish then?


 Yes


sthor said:


> What is Dish not doing that they need to do so I will get the guide data for OTA WOFL 35-01 ?


 The speculation is that Dish matches up the received OTA channels and then downloads guide data for those channels based on the station ID or call letters. They use the same source for guide data for the OTA channels as they do for the satellite-delivered channels.

You need to get AS MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE to report this particular problem to Dish. You need to get the TV station's people to do the same. They likely have a different avenue to contact Dish's engineering group, of course.


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## sthor (Oct 1, 2006)

Hall said:


> Yes
> The speculation is that Dish matches up the received OTA channels and then downloads guide data for those channels based on the station ID or call letters. They use the same source for guide data for the OTA channels as they do for the satellite-delivered channels.
> 
> You need to get AS MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE to report this particular problem to Dish. You need to get the TV station's people to do the same. They likely have a different avenue to contact Dish's engineering group, of course.


Thanks,

I received an email from Dish Tech support this morning but I think they misunderstood the problem. In reply I restated the problem clearly and attached my screenshots with notations showing the problem.

I will also followup with WOFL 35 tomorrow. The tech I spoke to in their engineering dept Saturday afternoon seemed interested in resolving the problem. It would be in WOFL's interest to make it as easy to view their channel as possible for as many viewers as possible.


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## virgilw (Dec 18, 2006)

sthor said:


> Thanks,
> 
> I received an email from Dish Tech support this morning but I think they misunderstood the problem. In reply I restated the problem clearly and attached my screenshots with notations showing the problem.


I have a similar problem and have begun a discussion with tech support at Dish. In my case, being the the Raleigh NC area, channels 005-01 and 050-01 lose their guide data. However, they sometimes have it. For instance, right after a reboot or a check switch they will have guide data. But at some point in the next day or so they will revert to "Digital Service". When I notice this, if I do a reboot, the guide data will restore. On another forum, another person reports that a reboot or check switch does not restore his guide data.

Note that this problem only exists for these two OTA channels. The other OTA channels are fine. Also note that Dish provides HD versions of the local stations in this area, with the exception of channel 5 and 50... So the only HD option for channels 5 and 50 are via OTA (which constantly reverts to just "Digital Service").

The first reply I got from Dish began as:

"Thank you for your e-mail. Are you referring to the OTA broadcast of these channels and the resulting PSIP data from them, or the DISH broadcast and the EPG information? Either way, please provide me with some more information:"

Why they are asking about PSIP, I don't know..... Not a good start.


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## sthor (Oct 1, 2006)

virgilw said:


> I have a similar problem and have begun a discussion with tech support at Dish. In my case, being the the Raleigh NC area, channels 005-01 and 050-01 lose their guide data. However, they sometimes have it. For instance, right after a reboot or a check switch they will have guide data. But at some point in the next day or so they will revert to "Digital Service". When I notice this, if I do a reboot, the guide data will restore. On another forum, another person reports that a reboot or check switch does not restore his guide data.
> 
> Note that this problem only exists for these two OTA channels. The other OTA channels are fine. Also note that Dish provides HD versions of the local stations in this area, with the exception of channel 5 and 50... So the only HD option for channels 5 and 50 are via OTA (which constantly reverts to just "Digital Service").
> 
> ...


This is what Dish Support sent me:
_
"Thank you for your e-mail. The guide information is received from your local station and transmitted to you. The digital signal can be broken up into smaller sections, technically called multi-casting. This is where the suffix on the high definition channels comes from. Up to four channels can be broadcast on channel 35. these will be named 35-01, 35-02, 35-03 and 35-04. When combined into one high definition signal, these will display as 35-00. We carry the signal for only one channel of these four channels, so when the broadcast is broken into multicast, we carry the signal and guide information from what would be channel 35-00."_

I do not see how that is related to the problem I submitted. I asked again but have not heard back yet.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

I think they are confused.... Because the problem you are pointing out looks like it has nothing to do with sub-channels. Not sure where they would get sub-channels as the issue? Also, if Dish has the info to feed it will map more than just one sub-channel as your picture clearly show. 

Is there anything unique about your area in regards to FOX? Example: is there two FOX affiliates in your area or something like that? 

From past experience with these type of issues. 

1) Something in the PSIP stream is incorrect and is confusing the 622 when it is trying to do the mapping. 
2) There is a issue with the Dish Map tables that results in incorrect mapping.


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## sthor (Oct 1, 2006)

Ron Barry said:


> I think they are confused.... Because the problem you are pointing out looks like it has nothing to do with sub-channels. Not sure where they would get sub-channels as the issue? Also, if Dish has the info to feed it will map more than just one sub-channel as your picture clearly show.
> 
> Is there anything unique about your area in regards to FOX? Example: is there two FOX affiliates in your area or something like that?
> 
> ...


Fox affiliates in Florida:
Cape Coral (Fort Myers) - WFTX 36 
Jacksonville - WAWS 30 
Miami - WSVN 7 
Ocala (Gainesville) - WOGX 51 
Orlando - WOFL 35 
Panama City - WPGX 28 
Tampa - WTVT 13 
West Palm Beach - WFLX-TV 29

If you extended a line 35 miles NW from my house through the WOFL 35 antenna location at Bithlo another 100 miles NW it would end up in the vicinity of Gainesville. That would be the next closest Fox affiliate. Do you think that could be related?

Thanks for the help!


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## sthor (Oct 1, 2006)

This is the reply I got from Dish in response to my request for clarification of their first answer. It is hard to believe that Dish really intends that the only way you will get OTA guide data is by it "leaking into your receiver"

It is really bad here because even though I subscribe to Dish locals they are only SD from Dish in the Orlando market. The only way I can get HD locals here is through the OTA antenna connected to my 622.

Dish response below:

_
"Thank you for your e-mail. Most off air channels do provide a form of guide information in their transmission. It may be possible that some of this information is "leaking" into your receiver from the channels 02-01, 06-01 and 09-01from the over the air multicast. It is not designed to do so. Most over the air multicast do include programming data that is decodable by some high definition tuners as it is transmitted over the air, but it is in a different format than the guide information which Dish Network uses. These formats are not supposed to be compatible.

We consider that the other local channels in your area being able to provide the information to your guide which does not originate from Dish Network to be a fortunate bonus. The receiver is not supposed to be able to do this.

Dish Network does not transmit multicast. When the local channels are not transmitting in high definition and have sufficient bandwith to transmit more than one set of programming, the signal that is relayed to dish is one channel, one set of programming. The networks indicate to us what they plan to broadcast on this one channel, and that becomes the guide information we send to your receiver. We do not send information for more than one set of programming per network to your receiver. We also make no editorial changes to the information.

The information for channels 02-01, 06-01 and 09-01 is not transmitted from Dish Network to your receiver. I do not know what is different about the signal 35-01 that is not also "leaking" into your receiver. It may be that 35-01 does not carry PSIP data.

We hope we have properly addressed your concerns. If you have further questions you can respond to this e-mail or access our online technical support at the following link: "_


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## saltrek (Oct 22, 2005)

What a bunch of hogwash. I guess you should call a plumber to stop the "leaking".


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## Hall (Mar 4, 2004)

That support rep needs to let engineering know that the 622 has holes in it....


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## JSIsabella (Oct 20, 2006)

What I don't understand is that people all over the country have been complaining about the problem of guide data not being linked to the OTA stations for months, but if you call Dish, you would think you were the only person in the world with this problem. Plus they do not even seem to understand what the issue is. Obviously they must check out this or other forums. You would think that they would at least say that they are aware, and are working on a fix for it. That response I could understand. It would save so much time that is being wasted by their phone reps! I know, I know, I am assuming comon sense here............ 

And I am not really clear how it works. Can someone tell me exactly how the guide data gets to Dish from the local stations? And if Dish has the guide data, which they seem to, since it appears just fine on the local packages we all have to buy from Dish, because it is the only way to get the guide data, then how is it supposed to link to our OTA stations in the 622?

From my perspective, it appears to be a software problem with that link. I would be just as happy if they made it a manual setup function, where I pick the Dish local station # and manually link it to the OTA station #. Then, at least it would work................. Sometimes a manual function that will work is better than the "cool" built in automatic feature that does not work.

My e-mails to Dish go unanswered. But I guess that is better than a nonsense respose that just makes you more angry!

I have been with Dish for a long time, and I really like the 622, but these little problems should be corrected, or at least acknowledged!!!

OK, I am stepping off the soapbox now.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Actually I am not sure if anyone here actually nows exactly how it works. One thing you have to realize first is that there are a huge number of combinations. And by no means is it a trivial task to get the mapping right. There are people that are in multiple DMA areas. I have seen posts were people are in these edge conditions between two DMAs where they get no guide info. etc.. Lot of variables to consider when you look across the country.

Just pop over to the D* side of the fence and you will find ut they don't use PSIP guide info at all and they also have their mapping issues.

What I have basically be able to come up with is that the PSIP guide information contained in the OTA stream is used to map a given OTA channel to a particular set of guide information. How it does it and why some channels get missed is hard to say. My gut tells me that the issues could be anything from an error in the stream configuration or could be in the mapping logic within the 622. Could even be in the EPG information being sent to the 622. Hard to say and since their are three parties providing the solution.. The OTA provider, Dish and possible the EPG provider I personally would not be quick to point the finger to anyone of them..

Like I have said a few times before.. Just the nature of the beast when one does not have full control of the process and is one of the main reason why I changed my tune with providing a mechanism to use either Dishes EPG or an EPG provided by PSIP.

Sorry can't provide a better answer.. Maybe someone here has a better idea but that is how I see the OTA EPG thing working from a high level perspective.

Here is another thread discussing OTA etc.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=62939


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## JSIsabella (Oct 20, 2006)

Thanks for the link to the other thread. Very interesting. But it seems that no one really understands how this data is sent to the 622.....

I don't mind paying for the locals, if that is the rule to get the EPG for my OTA locals. But it should work!

And again, if they can't get the mapping to work automatically, give me a manual link option that I can do myself. Then I would at least have a workaround.


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## virgilw (Dec 18, 2006)

JSIsabella said:


> Thanks for the link to the other thread. Very interesting. But it seems that no one really understands how this data is sent to the 622.....
> 
> I don't mind paying for the locals, if that is the rule to get the EPG for my OTA locals. But it should work!


It seems even Dish tech support doesn't for sure understand how it works. They claim that it should not work... that it somehow gets through to the guide for some people. If this is so, this has to be the most amazing case of a software bug that turned into a functional and incredibly useful feature for almost eveyone that uses OTA. I think it goes without saying that all of the -01 channels that do have guide data that exactly matches the -00 channels get that guide data as an intended act of the developers.

Here is the reply I got:

"Thank you for your e-mail. From what I understand, our receivers are not designed to pass through the PSIP data. With that in mind, you should not be getting guide data from any multi-cast channels.

You will see guide info from OTA digital channels only if DISH carries them, and if you subscribe to the local package through us. As we don't carry the multi-cast channels, we don't have that guide data.

We have had instances reported (similar to yours) where the PSIP data actually gets through the receiver and incorporated into the guide. However, because our software is not designed to support this, we currently cannot offer a way to fix this for the channels that do not display the information. I will go ahead and send in my report to the engineering team describing what we've discussed here to see if PSIP data is something that we may be able to support in the future.

I do realize that this hinders the ability to record from those channels. However, you can still set up manual timers without the need for an on screen guide.

To create a Manual Event Timer: ... "


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## Hall (Mar 4, 2004)

My understanding of the local guide data is that Dish receives it from a 3rd-party service. Is it "Tribune" or something similar ?? It's somewhat like TitanTV, where you enter your zip code, tell them how you receive TV, and it builds a guide for you. If I look at TitanTV for my zip code and tell it I get channels via OTA, it lists my locals (plus Cincinnati) and all of their sub-channels. 

Dish receives this same data and then has to do a match-up with their data vs the local channels we have scanned into our receivers to populate the guide properly. Of course, they only do this for channels that they're sending this add'l guide data for. A few weeks back Dish stopped uplinking (add'l channels) those virtual channels in the 14,000 range, but those "channels" were nothing more than guide data for the locals. Many cities have rec'd this data during the time Dish did this and continue to receive the guide data.


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## JSIsabella (Oct 20, 2006)

OK, but what is so weird about this is that some of my OTA stations link up fine to the SD locals pack I purchase from Dish, and some do not. That is what I find so hard to understand. In Youngstown, OH the SD locals offered by Dish are:

ABC 033-0 WYTV links to the OTA HD 033-1 perfectly
CBS 027-0 WKBN does not link to the OTA HD 027-1
FOX 062-0 WYFX does not link to the OTA HD 027-2
NBC 021-0 WFMJ links to the OTA HD 027-1 perfectly
PBS 045-0 WNEO links to the OTA HD 045-1 perfectly

Those are the only links I expected to work. I also receive some other OTA HD stations (sub channels) that I did not expect to get the EPG guide, since they are not a part of the Dish locals package.

CW 021-2 WBCB
My Net TV 033-2 My YTV
PBS2 045-2 WNEO
PBS3 045-3 WNEO
PBS4 045-4 WNEO

So I pay to get the SD locals, and the EPG with those locals, and I get the OTA HD stations, but only the CBS/FOX stations do not link to that guide data. When I called Dish, I was told it was a problem at the local CBS/FOX station. My thought was: What does the local station have to do with a link inside the 622? But I called WKBN anyway. The engineer I talked to said "What do they want me to fix?" I gave him the number to Dish tech support, and he promised to call them. A few weeks later I received an e-mail from Dish asking if the problem was fixed. I responded with "Sorry, but it still does not work." That was the last week of October. I have not heard from them since. I have followed up with a few more requests for information, but have received nothing.

I think if they would just tell me why it does not work, give me a check list of things to try, or what is needed from the local station, it would at least help me to understand the situation and possibly work with both parties to get a solution.

That is what is so frustrating.

Sorry for the rant................


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## Hall (Mar 4, 2004)

The fact that Dish carries your local CBS and FOX, yet the guide data for their -1 sub-channels do not populate is Dish's problem or mistake, not your local TV stations.

You, or your locals, have the same problem that the original poster has.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Hmm interesting.. FOX and CBS on the same subchannel... That I would never have expected. In my area.. FOX, CBS, NBC, and ABC each have their channels and also have sub channels to them but never would have expected to major networks to share a channel. 

Most likely that might be where the problem lies. Then again it might not be but that is definitely interesting. You have two frequencies mapping to different sub-channels. Wonder how common that is?


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## Hall (Mar 4, 2004)

That is unusual, I would think. I see that those two are "sister" stations, much like my local ABC and FOX. In my case though, they don't share sub-channels.

Wait a minute .... something's not right with his list:


> CBS 027-0 WKBN does not link to the OTA HD *027-1*
> FOX 062-0 WYFX does not link to the OTA HD 027-2
> NBC 021-0 WFMJ links to the OTA HD *027-1* perfectly


 I presume the NBC sub-channel is a typo and should read 21-1.


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## CABill (Mar 20, 2005)

JSIsabella said:


> In Youngstown, OH the SD locals offered by Dish are:
> 
> ABC 033-0 WYTV links to the OTA HD 033-1 perfectly
> CBS 027-0 WKBN does not link to the OTA HD 027-1
> ...


Rants don't need appologies. If it ain't right, it ain't right!

But I'm REALLY confused. I used 44511 for Youngstown at www.antennaweb.org and when you select Digital channels, FOX isn't listed.

* yellow - uhf WYTV-DT 31.3 ABC YOUNGSTOWN OH 108° 3.1 36 
* yellow - uhf WKBN-DT 27.1 CBS YOUNGSTOWN OH 118° 2.7 41 
* yellow - uhf WFMJ-DT 21.1 NBC YOUNGSTOWN OH 84° 2.9 20 
* red - uhf WNEO-DT 46.1 PBS ALLIANCE OH 233° 16.0 46

I ignored the 31.3 and assume a typo for 33.1. When you show Analog or Both, the Fox shows up as a Low Power analog
green - uhf WYFX-LP 62 FOX YOUNGSTOWN OH 118° 2.7 62

I don't have a 622, but if you go add channel 41 manually, it should display the WKBN call sign (27.1). I get LOTS of channels in my Guide for OTA digitals that aren't in my DMA and that DISH doesn't carry. The EPG info for those channels come from "artifical channels" DISH creates to identify the program info. My local PBS (KVIE) analog is carried as a DISH local on 6.0. Its digital 6.1 and 6.2 have entirely different programming but DISH uplinks their guide data as if their call sign were KVIE1 and KVIE2. Back in May, they started working and JohnH posted in his "Uplink Activity" threads that channel 14103 had the KVIE2 info:

14103 KVIE2 ADDED TO Tp 16 ConUS beam on EchoStar 8 at 110w

These 14,000 channel numbers aren't something you can tune to, just artificial things to find the needed EPG info. Eventhough I'm not in the San Francisco DMA, I get Guide data for all 5 of the subchannels of its PBS KQED. JohnH's Uplink Activity shows

14015 KQED1 MOVED FROM Tp 29 ConUS beam on EchoStar 6 at 110w
TO Tp 8 ConUS beam on EchoStar 8 at 110w

14016 KQED2 MOVED FROM Tp 29 ConUS beam on EchoStar 6 at 110w
TO Tp 8 ConUS beam on EchoStar 8 at 110w

14017 KQED3 MOVED FROM Tp 29 ConUS beam on EchoStar 6 at 110w
TO Tp 8 ConUS beam on EchoStar 8 at 110w

14018 KQED4 MOVED FROM Tp 29 ConUS beam on EchoStar 6 at 110w
TO Tp 8 ConUS beam on EchoStar 8 at 110w

14019 KQED5 MOVED FROM Tp 29 ConUS beam on EchoStar 6 at 110w
TO Tp 8 ConUS beam on EchoStar 8 at 110w

DISH can duplicate the Guide info on a Sat SD channel to either subchannel of an OTA digital, but I THINK it needs to create one of those 14,000 channel numbers to get more than one subchannel having EPG info. It also requires Tribune having the correct info for the digital channels. If you go to www.Zap2it.com and don't find your digital info, DISH won't have it either. Zap2it having it doesn't guarantee DISH will, but if they don't, DISH won't.

Dunno if this link will work or if you have to enter your zipcode and pick antenna yourself, but http://tvlistings5.zap2it.com/tvlistings/GridAction.do?lineupId=PC:44511 does show 27.1 as WKBNDT (CBS) and 27.2 as WKBNDT2 (Fox) (but not HD). It also shows Fox to be channel 8.0 and 8.1, but they must be from "far away" and outside the DMA.

My GUESS is that you'll have to wait until DISH puts up some WKBN2 14000 channel that has the EPG info for a station with WYFX call letters. I think your low power Fox on a subchannel of the Digital CBS is pretty unusual.

When you select channel 27.1 and 27.2, do you see any call sign displayed?


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## JSIsabella (Oct 20, 2006)

Typos all over the place.............. :goofygrin

I missed the WFMJ number - it is suppoed to be 021-1

The number on antennaweb.org is also incorrect - it should be 033-1

The channel 8 FOX station is in Cleveland - about 90 miles from here.

And yes, the call letters of WKBN and WYFX are displayed when I tune them in.

The CBS and FOX stations must be owned by the same people, becuase everything they do is linked together. They even share a single web site:

http://www.wkbn.com/

I am aware that the FOX WYFX sub-channel is being sent in SD. According to the engineer I talked to at WKBN, they are supposed to switch over the FOX signal to HD "sometime in the future".....

It would be nice to get the EPG for all of the PBS sub-channels, but for now I would just be happy with the channels listed in the Dish locals pack.

Being a programmer by trade, these kinds of problems drive me crazy, so I spent some time today trying things on the 622 to see if I could find any kind of a pattern.

1. I did a re-scan of the OTA channels on both the HD receiver built into the Hitachi TV and the 622. They both found a new station - 033-3 WYTV Weather. Other than that, everything else was the same.

2. Then I checked to see if the EPG would magically appear for the CBS/FOX stations. No change - all that was displayed was Digital Service.

3. Next I went back to the local channels in the setup menu. I noticed that the listed call letters for the NBC station was WFMJ-D, which I assume was shortened from WFMJ-DT. But the call letters for CBS was WKBN-H, again assuming shortened from WKBN-HD. Just as a test, I changed the name of the CBS station to WKBN-D. When I exited that editor, a message came up and said that it was saving "important information". Then the 622 locked up and after a minute or so, it rebooted. Very strange, but OK. However, when I checked the program guide, presto chango! - EPG was now in place for WKBN 027-1.

So now I am figuring that maybe the link used by Dish is somehow tied to the call letters. The call letters listed for the FOX sub channel 027-2 are just WYFX. So I changed it to WYFX-D. Again it locked up and rebooted, but no luck with this one.

To really test the call letter link theory, I went back and changed the CBS station to WJIM. I thought it would then drop the EPG. System locked up, rebooted, check program guide - it is still there. Now I am back to square one.

I have no idea why the EPG for WKBN has started to work after all this time. I guess you all are correct in that the FOX being a sub-channel of the CBS station is the reason it does not yet work, since the SD station # is 062-0 and the HD # is 027-2.

I still think a manual editor that would allow me to link the EPG to the OTA stations would be the easiest fix, but there must be reasons why that is not in place.

And the lockup/reboot of the 622 every single time I make a change in the OTA menu is a real pain!!!! (Edit: I just saw another thread that says this is a known issue..............)

If you have any other ideas, I will be more than glad to try them! Thanks for all the input.


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## Hall (Mar 4, 2004)

Others have tried that channel name re-naming trick and it also worked for *some* people. In the case of the main analog and main digital channel, it's fine, as they almost always simulcast the same programming. As you can imagine, doing this for your local PBS, at least my local PBS, would do no good. They have 4 or 5 total digital channels and each has unique programming. Worse, PBS-HD in my area is off the air most of the week, only on from 6pm Fri to 12 midnight Sunday (or something like that). When it goes on the air, they drop one or two of the other sub-channels.


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## redsoxnation (Jan 9, 2007)

I recently installed a 622. I previously and still do have an 811. E* wants to collect the $5 for the HD locals. In the 811 HD locals could only be watched from OTA. The guide data for the locals exist in the carousel coming off the satellite. in the 811 the data would be populated for the HD OTA. now E* has HD locals for $5. if you try to save the $5 and use HD OTA you can. Your downside is that E* has the 622 block the guide data from being populated in the guide. Pay your $5 and it will be populated.
During my install, i didn't want to pay the $5 so I had a 622 wth no HD OTA guide data and an 811 with HD OTA guide data. 622 EPG software check to see that you subscribe to HD locals for $5 before it wil put the data in the guide. NO PAY, NO DATA. Simple as that.


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## saltrek (Oct 22, 2005)

To get back on track: We are paying for the locals, but for some reason there are some channels that do not populate the guide data. Fox 35 Orlando is one of them, which started the discussion, and has caused some to wonder how the whole thing works.

As an aside - the FOX 35 problem also exists on the 811 and 211.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

redsoxnation said:


> I recently installed a 622. I previously and still do have an 811. E* wants to collect the $5 for the HD locals. In the 811 HD locals could only be watched from OTA. The guide data for the locals exist in the carousel coming off the satellite. in the 811 the data would be populated for the HD OTA. now E* has HD locals for $5. if you try to save the $5 and use HD OTA you can. Your downside is that E* has the 622 block the guide data from being populated in the guide. Pay your $5 and it will be populated.
> During my install, i didn't want to pay the $5 so I had a 622 wth no HD OTA guide data and an 811 with HD OTA guide data. 622 EPG software check to see that you subscribe to HD locals for $5 before it wil put the data in the guide. NO PAY, NO DATA. Simple as that.


:welcome_s redsoxnation. Yes this is true. However, there is also people having issue were they do sub to locals and certain local channels are not getting populated. What this thread is discussing in a particular reqion specific issue where people are subbing, get guide data for most channels, but are not seeing it for one channel that should be receiving it.


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## virgilw (Dec 18, 2006)

My latest reply from Dish tech support. It doesn't really help. Doesn't explain why some get it, some don't, some get partial, or I get intermittent on partial.

"Thank you for your e-mail. I will definitely pass this information along. The ‘official information’ they’ve been passing down the wire for the last few months is that we do not support PSIP data at all. Like you’ve said, we have had several customers stating that they have it on the -1 channels for some markets, but not others.

I will pass this along to engineering and see what comes up. Hopefully we can integrate full multi-cast PSIP data into our receivers at some point. "


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## JSIsabella (Oct 20, 2006)

I had no idea what PSIP was, so I did a google.

For more than you ever wanted to know about it check out:

http://www.psip.org/



sthor, saltrek, and virgilw - Have you tried playing with the station name in the setup screen to see if it will work, like it did with my CBS station? It is worth a try...........


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## sthor (Oct 1, 2006)

JSIsabella said:


> I had no idea what PSIP was, so I did a google.
> 
> For more than you ever wanted to know about it check out:
> 
> ...


I got excited when I read it so I a changed WOFL-D to WOFL-H and rebooted. Nothing happened except that a few minutes later the 622 froze up and I had to reboot it.

Unfortunately I still do not get the guide data for WOFL 035-01. 

Thanks for the tip though!


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## sthor (Oct 1, 2006)

redsoxnation said:


> I recently installed a 622. I previously and still do have an 811. E* wants to collect the $5 for the HD locals. In the 811 HD locals could only be watched from OTA. The guide data for the locals exist in the carousel coming off the satellite. in the 811 the data would be populated for the HD OTA. now E* has HD locals for $5. if you try to save the $5 and use HD OTA you can. Your downside is that E* has the 622 block the guide data from being populated in the guide. Pay your $5 and it will be populated.
> During my install, i didn't want to pay the $5 so I had a 622 wth no HD OTA guide data and an 811 with HD OTA guide data. 622 EPG software check to see that you subscribe to HD locals for $5 before it wil put the data in the guide. NO PAY, NO DATA. Simple as that.


I do subscribe to Orlando locals but I and I do get the guide data for most of the OTA locals but not WOFL


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## moman19 (Oct 22, 2004)

I have experienced similar issues since Day 1 on my 622. Here in St. Louis, the local PBS station transmits FOUR subchannels. While two (IMHO) are completely useless, none of the four contain any Guide data. Even the mirrored analog channel has no data!

In it's wisdom (???) the 01 channel is the national PBS HD feed. The 02 channel is the analog mirror. After going 'round & 'round with E* and the station Director of Engineering, it was learned that the guide info for mirrored analog stations MUST be the 01 subchannel. Otherwise all subs get no guide data. That's the explanation and E* refuses to address this issue either with a fix or a parameter option.

All this madness stems from the fact that the 622 is designed to ignore PSIP data, which forces a subscriber to order locals for the EPG to be populated. While I disagree with this business practice, I would be much more willing to accept this fact of life if all channels were correctly populated. As a result, neither the HD channel nor the mirrored SD channel can easily be programmed into the DVR. Plus, I have to go to the web to see what's on. How dumb is that????

As a side bar, I have a deactivated D* receiver tied to my PJ in the basement. It's used merely for OTA HD reception. It receives EPG data for every local station including the subs. So this could be a no-brainer and proves the locals are not at fault.


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## Hall (Mar 4, 2004)

moman19 said:


> That's the explanation and E* refuses to address this issue either with a fix or a parameter option.
> 
> All this madness stems from the fact that the 622 is designed to ignore PSIP data, which forces a subscriber to order locals for the EPG to be populated. While I disagree with this business practice, I would be much more willing to accept this fact of life if all channels were correctly populated. As a result, neither the HD channel nor the mirrored SD channel can easily be programmed into the DVR.


 Please do some reading on DVRs and guide data. It turns out that very few, if any, *DVR*s use (trust) the PSIP data. The key is, again, *DVR*s, not standard set-top boxes. The consensus, and this is from end-users at this site and many others, is that PSIP is notoriously unreliable or inaccurate. I can attest to that personally from the time I used a deactivated DirecTV HD set-top for OTA. On more than one occasion I saw wrong guide information.

That said, I also disagree with the fact that Dish makes you subscribe to your locals just to get the main digital channel's to populate the guide. I'd consider dropping my local channels if they'd leave the OTA guide data populated. I guess the add'l $5 provides us with their (accurate) guide...


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## moman19 (Oct 22, 2004)

Hall said:


> Please do some reading on DVRs and guide data. It turns out that very few, if any, *DVR*s use (trust) the PSIP data. The key is, again, *DVR*s, not standard set-top boxes. The consensus, and this is from end-users at this site and many others, is that PSIP is notoriously unreliable or inaccurate. I can attest to that personally from the time I used a deactivated DirecTV HD set-top for OTA. On more than one occasion I saw wrong guide information.
> 
> That said, I also disagree with the fact that Dish makes you subscribe to your locals just to get the main digital channel's to populate the guide. I'd consider dropping my local channels if they'd leave the OTA guide data populated. I guess the add'l $5 provides us with their (accurate) guide...


I'm pretty much up on this stuff and I have to agree with you. When the E* Guide data is present, it's accurate the vast majority of the time....barring a Presidential speech or an extended sporting event. My complaint concerns the fact that some OTA stations simply contain no guide data 24 x 7 due to issues related to the 622. In those cases, I would prefer the option to use PSIP for those stations and take my chances rather than put up with "LOCAL DIGITAL" being the only info available.


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## sthor (Oct 1, 2006)

I tried to get Dish to look into this problem again Last night during Tech Talk. I emailed my problem and screenshots (same pictures as my original post in this thread) showing the missing guide data to Dish last night during the show. Here is my email and Dish's "reply":

***********************************************************
Dear Sir or Madam:

Thank you for your e-mail. _Our guide information should not include the -01 channels. There is no troubleshooting for this. The fact that you are receiving the guide info for the other -01 channels is coincidence._ We apologize for any inconveniences.

We hope we have properly addressed your concerns. If you have further questions you can respond to this e-mail or access our online technical support at the following link:

http://tech.dishnetwork.com/departmental_content/techportal/index.shtml

A Technical Service Representative is available via live chat 1:30 PM-10:00 PM (MDT) 7 days per week regarding your concerns. Please click the following link to use this option.

http://tech.dishnetwork.com/departm...al/content/tech/techchatadvcustformrf23.shtml

Thanks,

Julie J.

DISH Network Technical eCare

** Please include all previous correspondence when replying. **

-----Original Message-----
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: 
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 8:03 PM
To: TechForum
Subject: No guide data for 35-01 in Orlando

As you can see from the attached screen photos I get no guide data for Channel 35-01 in Orlando, Florida. I do get guide data for 35-00.

I also get guide data for 02-00, 02-01, 06-00,06-01, 09-00, 09-01 which are the other major network affiliates in Orlando.

This makes it difficult to program recordings on 035-01.

What is the solution to this problem?
***********************************************************

I cannot accept Dish's suggestion that "The fact that you are receiving the guide info for the other -01 channels is coincidence."

Is this true? Is this the best Dish can do?


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Ugh...I really hate it when such obviously bad information is sent by clueless tech support CSRs. Unbelievable...


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## sthor (Oct 1, 2006)

Mark Lamutt said:


> Ugh...I really hate it when such obviously bad information is sent by clueless tech support CSRs. Unbelievable...


Is there anyway to get anybody higher up at Dish to look at this?

I called during last night's Tech Talk but did not get on. I talked to a couple of CSR's who said they were going to connect me to a higher level of Tech Support then when they transferred the call I got cut off. That is when I sent the email.

It is very frustrating to communicate with Dish about technical problems.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

I definitely understand your frustration, sthor. I'll see what I can do...


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## sthor (Oct 1, 2006)

Mark Lamutt said:


> I definitely understand your frustration, sthor. I'll see what I can do...


Thanks!


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## Will Munshower (Mar 4, 2007)

Has anyone heard an update to this issue? I just got my VIP 622 and 625 installed on Monday. This problem is very frustrating. I have 8 shows that I DVR regularly on FOX. I have called WOFL directly and left a voice mail for their tech team and sent them feedback through their web page. It's been nearly four days and I have not gotten a response. 

In the past, I have found that WOFL does not like to discuss technical issues with their viewers. The other Orlando station's technicians have been really cool and forthcoming with their knowledge. I have been viewing some form of OTA DTV for seven years, and it just seems that FOX 35 doesn't care what it's viewers think. I just don't get it!

Oh, by the way, I called Dish first and they were real quick to blame this on FOX 35. Since the digital multicast channels have PG data populated in the sub-channels, I assume the PSIP data is being used. I am just not sure if this is being sent to Dish first or the 622 is receiving and decoding it. The 2nd level support "technician" I spoke to didn't even know what PSIP is! Yikes!


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Will Munshower said:


> Oh, by the way, I called Dish first and they were real quick to blame this on FOX 35. Since the digital multicast channels have PG data populated in the sub-channels, I assume the PSIP data is being used. I am just not sure if this is being sent to Dish first or the 622 is receiving and decoding it. The 2nd level support "technician" I spoke to didn't even know what PSIP is! Yikes!


As I understand it. The 622 uses PSIP information to do the mapping from the frequency to the channels we are accustom to and to figure out subchannels etc (56 goes to 002-01 and 002-01). However, the guide information is provide through Dish. No PSIP guide information is used and this is how all DVRs get their guide info.

Based on my experience here, for this channel not to be getting guide info would mean that either there is something in the PSIP stream that is confusing the 622, There is some edge multi-DMA situation, or the guide info for this channel is not being provided.


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## sthor (Oct 1, 2006)

The problem is at Dish. They just don't seem to understand or care about it. 

It is very frustrating and makes recording Fox 35 WOFL OTA difficult.


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## Will Munshower (Mar 4, 2007)

Just to give all of you an update: I just got off of the phone with Mark Duffy from the Executive Resolution Team. I explained to him the issues that those of us in the Orlando area are dealing with in regards to WOFL FOX 35. He is escalating the issue to the 622 programming team and is going to have one of the engineers call me tomorrow evening at 7:00PM. I will not let this issue die. I have a bad case of OCD and will not let this problem go. I have been tormenting Dish since last Monday. They assure me that this will be corrected. I guess we shall see. I will post the contents of my conversation with the engineer, if he/she does indeed call. Take care...Will


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

sthor said:


> The problem is at Dish. They just don't seem to understand or care about it.
> 
> It is very frustrating and makes recording Fox 35 WOFL OTA difficult.


What makes you sure the problem is with Dish? There have been cases in the past where invalid PSIP configuration data has resulted in info not being displayed in the guide. There have also been cases where people have indicated that STB is displaying the data correctly so it must be the Dish Receiver to later find there was something in the PSIP stream that the receiver did not like.

The thing that keeps running through my mind.. Your other channels map just fine. Since -00 shows data, the 622 knows about the guide info and it exists. It is even mapped correctly to the -00 channel. So it make me think there is something unique about the PSIP configuration data in this stream that the 622, 811, and 211 does not like based on other reports in this thread. I personally am not convinced it is a 622 problem but could be a case of the Dish Receivers being picky about the PSIP configuration.

Is there something I missed that would make one thing 100% the issue is Dish related?

:rant:
I read through the thread again.. 3 times.  For the future.. If you have an OTA specific issue.. Open up a thread with the DMA info in the thread title and try not to drag multiple issues into the same thread. It makes it really difficult to seperate the different issues. 
:rant:


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## sthor (Oct 1, 2006)

Will Munshower said:


> Just to give all of you an update: I just got off of the phone with Mark Duffy from the Executive Resolution Team. I explained to him the issues that those of us in the Orlando area are dealing with in regards to WOFL FOX 35. He is escalating the issue to the 622 programming team and is going to have one of the engineers call me tomorrow evening at 7:00PM. I will not let this issue die. I have a bad case of OCD and will not let this problem go. I have been tormenting Dish since last Monday. They assure me that this will be corrected. I guess we shall see. I will post the contents of my conversation with the engineer, if he/she does indeed call. Take care...Will


:righton: 
Thanks for keeping up the pressure.

I have called and emailed several times on this only to get ridiculous answers from Dish.


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## Will Munshower (Mar 4, 2007)

Ok...Just to cover my bases before the Dish Network Engineer calls, I did a couple of experiments. I removed my OTA antenna connection over to the ATSC tuner of my TV. Voila! Guide data for WOFL. I then blew the dust off of my RCA DTC-100 and connected it to the OTA antenna. Within a couple of minutes, I had a weeks worth of guide data for WOFL. Now, here is my question to you fine folks.

Does anyone know, with absolute certainty, if the 622 receives and decodes the PSIP data or do the networks send it to Dish or is the data sent to Dish via a 3rd party PG source? Knowing this would assist me greatly with my discussion I am scheduled to have with Dish this evening. 

I apologize for what may be perceived as a noob question. My Dish installation was just set up last Monday and there is a lot that I don't know yet. Thanks in advance for your assistance...Will


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## ChuckA (Feb 7, 2006)

As I understand it, Dish gets the Guide data from a third party. PSIP data is not used for Guide data, but it is used for OTA to identify the station to do channel mapping and know what guide data goes with what channel.


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## saltrek (Oct 22, 2005)

Will Munshower said:


> Ok...Just to cover my bases before the Dish Network Engineer calls, I did a couple of experiments. I removed my OTA antenna connection over to the ATSC tuner of my TV. Voila! Guide data for WOFL. I then blew the dust off of my RCA DTC-100 and connected it to the OTA antenna. Within a couple of minutes, I had a weeks worth of guide data for WOFL.


Just to clarify - are you saying that you received guide date for channel *35-01* *after* you disconnected the antenna? You no longer see "digital service" on channel 35-01?


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## Will Munshower (Mar 4, 2007)

saltrek said:


> Just to clarify - are you saying that you received guide date for channel *35-01* *after* you disconnected the antenna? You no longer see "digital service" on channel 35-01?


No. I'm sorry. I should have been more clear. What I was saying was that I received guide data from WOFL, 35-01 via my ATSC tuner on my TV and the RCA DTC-100. I am still unable to get PG data from my 622 from WOFL OTA. I did this because one of the 'advanced technicians' stated that the reason there is no guide data is because WOFL is not transmitting PSIP data. Now, I have been experimenting with editing the name of the channel. Originally, the guide identifies the channel as WOFL D I have tried:

WOFL
WOFL-D
WOFL-H
WOFL H
035-01
35-01
22.1
022-01

So far, this has not yielded any desirable results. I especially like the bug that locks up the 622 when you make any changes in the local channels menu. I will update everyone when and if the member of the 622 eningeering team contacts me. Best regards...Will


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

The guide data definitely comes from a third party and not from the guide information provided in the PSIP stream. From what I can tell, Dish uses the PSIP configuration data to look up the EPG info and then does the mapping. Based on the fact that you can see the -00 guide information, my gut is telling me something in how it is being mapped is where the issues lies. This can either be a bug in the 622 or a misconfiguration in the stream that is causing the 622 to be confused. 

What might be of some use would be pictures of the OTA guides from your TVs tuner for that channel and some others.


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## Will Munshower (Mar 4, 2007)

arghh....having problems uploading images. One moment please


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## Will Munshower (Mar 4, 2007)

Does this help? I would have sent the DTC-100 screen. It takes awhile to hook back up. I'll just post these two first...Will

View attachment 7640


View attachment 7641


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## Will Munshower (Mar 4, 2007)

Here is the PG for the DTC-100. Sorry that it took so long. I had to connect a VGA to component transcoder to it. Essentially, I had to pull the TV back away from the wall to get access to the input pack. The DTC-100 is pretty slow pulling down PSIP data, but it is adding PG data as we speak. Here is a snapshot. Sorry about the flash glare, WOFL is down at the bottom...Will


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## Will Munshower (Mar 4, 2007)

Here is the info view for WOFL FOX 35


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Few shots of some of the channels that are working would be helpful. Wonder if it has to do with the fact there is a 35 and then 35-1? Just guessing.


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## Will Munshower (Mar 4, 2007)

Ron Barry said:


> Few shots of some of the channels that are working would be helpful. Wonder if it has to do with the fact there is a 35 and then 35-1? Just guessing.


Here is a screen shot of the Dish guide clearly showing the SD programming with it's OTA HD counterpart. WKMG is CBS and WFTV is ABC. I hope this helps...Will


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Ooops Sorry Will. I was meaning from the TV Tuner point of few. I was curious if any of the working channels showed both a number with no dot and a number with a dot... In your capture you show 35, 35.1, and 35.2. Wonder if WKMG has 06, 06.1 and 06.2. Sorry I don't have a lot of experience with OTA STBs so I am not sure if that was normal. 

I still think there is something in the stream that is confusing the 622. Question is.. Is the 622 misinterpreting the stream info provided or is the stream info an invalid configuration that other tuners are not being as critical as the 622 in its interpretation. Then again.. it could be something else.  

Good details though and hopefully this will be helpful to the Dish Engineering that is suppose to call.


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## Will Munshower (Mar 4, 2007)

Well, it's nearly 8:30PM and I have heard nothing from Dish's 622 Engineering Department. Just as I had suspected. Now, like every other issue that I have had to deal with since Dish was installed last week I am going to have to throw a tantrum to the upper echelon. It shouldn't be like this. Customer service in this country has gone to the dogs. This is just another example.


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## Will Munshower (Mar 4, 2007)

Well...Today at about 12:00PM, I received a phone call while I was at work. I usually forward my home phone to my cell during work days. It was a gentleman from the 622 engineering team! I explained to him the issues we were having and he seemed very familiar with this problem. He stated that it is probably an issue with the TSID mapping. I am unfamiliar with this acronym and will have to look it up and research it. He stated that this is an 'easy fix' and that Dish Network should have this resolved by tomorrow morning. 

The first thing I did once I walked in the door was to turn on my 622 and do the check switch method of refreshing the PG data. No dice, yet (I hope) I am keeping my fingers crossed.

Now I am kind of glad that I had such a nightmare installation. It has allowed me to collect many contacts at the Executive level. This morning before I left for work, I left a voice mail with one of the executives, complaining that I did not receive the promised phone call. I guess he went and 'stood on someone's desk' to get the ball rolling. I hope this is not false hope for me and in turn for all of you as well. The engineer seemed VERY knowledgable and did not seem concerned at all about the complexity of our problem. He even gave me his phone number (another for my rolodex!)

Let's hope for the best all. Like I said, once I get started on something, I rarely stop until something gives. I just pray that I am not giving you all false hope. Let's keep our fingers crossed.

P.S. The engineer did confirm that the 622 only incorporates the PSIP data for channel mapping and nothing else.

Best regards...Will


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Thanks for the update Will. Hmmm that makes it sound like there is some mapping info contained within the Dish EPG side of the stream. Well lets hope for the best. Be great is it appears in the next day or so.


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## sthor (Oct 1, 2006)

Will Munshower said:


> Well...Today at about 12:00PM, I received a phone call while I was at work. I usually forward my home phone to my cell during work days. It was a gentleman from the 622 engineering team! I explained to him the issues we were having and he seemed very familiar with this problem. He stated that it is probably an issue with the TSID mapping. I am unfamiliar with this acronym and will have to look it up and research it. He stated that this is an 'easy fix' and that Dish Network should have this resolved by tomorrow morning.
> 
> The first thing I did once I walked in the door was to turn on my 622 and do the check switch method of refreshing the PG data. No dice, yet (I hope) I am keeping my fingers crossed.
> 
> ...


You' re the man!reach:

Your Dish Screenshots look just like the ones I posted back at the start of the thread. I am glad they seem to be listening at Dish now.


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## Will Munshower (Mar 4, 2007)

I woke up this morning and....got myself a gun. Oh, wait a minute. I'm not Tony Soprano!

So sorry. I get punchy when I first wake up. What I meant to say is I woke up this morning and their is NO GUIDE DATA FOR FOX 35! Argghhh...

I refreshed my EPG and still nothing. I will give them till noon EST before I call my contact. I'm working from home today, so I will have plenty of time to check the guide...I mean, um, work.

Take care...Will


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## Will Munshower (Mar 4, 2007)

Ok Guys, here's the latest. My engineering contact from Dish just called me. As he initially thought, it is indeed a TSID mapping issue. Here's the kicker. According to my contact, Dish has been attempting to get the TSID info from WOFL for many months and they have been "unresponsive". He told me that repeated phone calls and emails have gone to Ken Preston, who I believe is the VP of Engineering over at WOFL.

Now, needless to say this REALLY makes me angry if this is indeed the case. Would it not be in WOFL's best interest to make a simple phone call and supply this data? Is it not in his best interest to ensure that the viewers can easily view Fox's content? Aww...This just gets me riled. I just want to wring someone's neck!

I guess our numbers are not large enough to be on the radar. What we need is a concerted effort to compel Ken Preston to do the right thing. (Here again, if what I am being told is indeed the case). BTW, every voice mail I have left for Ken Preston has gone unanswered.

Please let me know your thoughts on this matter, everyone. I've had a terrible day today and this just makes it a little worse. 

Thanks, all...Will


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## Will Munshower (Mar 4, 2007)

OK, everyone. This morning I went out on a mission. I sent this email to the following executives at WOFL. Nevermind the 'I represent 50 or so Dish customers, I had to put a little muscle behind my email, believe me, I don't have that type of ego :

Stan Knott - General Manager
Rosa Santos - His Assistant
Terry Walden - Program Manager
Lou Supowitz - VP of Sales
Ken Preston - VP of Engineering

<insert name>

I have been attempting to get someone from your engineering department to contact an engineer from Dish Network for nearly two weeks. I have left voicemails for Ken Preston beginning on March 5th and have not received a response. The issue is that WOFL needs to let Dish Network know your station's TSID information so that those of us who use an antenna to receive high definition content can have guide data. As it stands, my family cannot DVR the 10 or more shows that we record weekly from FOX because of this.

I represent 50 or so Dish Network customers in the Central Florida area through several satellite television dedicated websites. We are very frustrated by this apparent lack of concern on your station's part. It is just a simple phone call that needs to be made. The engineer at Dish Network is <name deleted> and his phone number is <phone number deleted>. I really hope that we can get this situation resolved as quickly as possible. I would think that providing this simple information so that viewers can properly enjoy your product would be of paramount concern to you.

Please assist me in this matter. Your cooperation would be greatly appreciated and you would make many of your viewers very happy.

Sincerely,

Will Munshower


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## Will Munshower (Mar 4, 2007)

Ok, guys...

I just got 4.01 a couple of hours ago. When I first checked the WOFL guide data, it said the same thing...digital service. Once I went and performed a 'scan locals', I went back to the guide and there it was...guide data for FOX 35. I am a happy camper. I haven't even checked the rest of the functionallity of the new software, yet. I know...I must be a geek if I am up at 4AM to test new software. I can't help it! Best regards everyone...Will


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Glad to hear it was fixed Will.. Hmm wonder if it was L4.01 or just coincidence. Did you try a rescan after the Dish Team indicated it should be fixed the next day?


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## Will Munshower (Mar 4, 2007)

Ron Barry said:


> Glad to hear it was fixed Will.. Hmm wonder if it was L4.01 or just coincidence. Did you try a rescan after the Dish Team indicated it should be fixed the next day?


Ron,

Yeah. I have OCD so badly I probably rescanned 20 or 30 times this week alone! I had just re-escalated this through one of my executive contacts at Dish, but this was several days ago. I really think that L4.01 fixed the issue. I left a message for the member of the 622 programming team to tell him that WOFL works now after 4.01 downloaded. I hope that if it was just a coincidence that he will call me back and let me know. I'm also going to search for similar problems on the forum and see if others no longer have the EPG issue since the release as well.

Thanks for all of your help...Will


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## Will Munshower (Mar 4, 2007)

Here is the proof!


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## sthor (Oct 1, 2006)

L4.01 resolved this problem for me too.

I deleted all my existing OTA's this morning then rescanned and 35-01 now has guide data.


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