# MRV hit a wall - techs are stumped - HELP!



## jhollan2 (Aug 31, 2006)

I had a SWM upgrade/DECA install scheduled for 8-12 saturday. At 2pm the guy showed up and said he had "passed the training class" and was unsure how to do it. Of course, he wasnt going to call for help...

He upgraded the SWM with an 8 (I think this is wrong but I'll get to that). The wires drop from the attic to the garage where there used to be an additional multiswitch. He got rid of that and split one line into two for one room. All boxes were recieving a signal.

Now - the upgrades
These boxes work:
D10 - R22. Named "guest room"
R15 - R22. Named "office" (this room is split again out of the wall to the R22 and Deca, and to another deca connected to the router - then back to input 2 on the R22 for power)
H21. Named "kitchen"

And the problem children (shocker)
HR20-100 "Living room" - line comes from wall and goes to the SWM power adapter - from there it goes to a splitter and is connected correctly with the blockers per the diagram.
HR20-100 "bedroom" Connected per the diagram for the 100.


Living room occasionally decides there are too many boxes on the network and will not use tuner 2. It randomly decides which other boxes it would like to see. DLB does not work. It can only record one show at a time. Using MRV crashes the box - goes to grey screen. Connected to the powerline ethernet on port 2. Every restart requires it to be "named" again.

Bedroom also randomly decides which other boxes it sees. It also likes to drop its internet connection despite the fact that it is directly tied to the router through ethernet 2 AND has the deca on ethernet 1.

Oddly enough, the other boxes can see living room and bedroom even when they cant see eachother.

I've also noticed that all the boxes have to be on for them to see eachother. The techs are completely clueless and have been here 3 times. I'm at a loss. 

Anyone have any ideas?


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

is that 9 tuners or did I count wrong?
needs swm 16 if so and not swm8 or swm lnb.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

one too many receivers
2- HR20s
2-R22 [SWiM is full now]
1-H21 oops


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## jhollan2 (Aug 31, 2006)

5 boxes - so yes, 9 tuners. Tech said splitting one was OK but I asked for a second switch. He said I didnt need it...


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

jhollan2 said:


> 5 boxes - so yes, 9 tuners. Tech said splitting one was OK but I asked for a second switch. He said I didnt need it...


Drop one receiver or get a SWiM-16 that's it.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

You need a SWM16, not a SWM8. That should fix your tuner issues.
Secondly, you need an additional deca and power supply to bridge the deca cloud to your home network/internet. Using the 2nd ethernet jack may (is) cause you problems.


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## barryb (Aug 27, 2007)

jhollan2 said:


> 5 boxes - so yes, 9 tuners. Tech said splitting one was OK but I asked for a second switch. He said I didnt need it...


Call DirecTV and let them know. He is wrong. Second switch is not your ideal either... SWM16 is.


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## jhollan2 (Aug 31, 2006)

I'll call him back! Will not having enough room on the switch cause the boxes to not see eachother?


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

jhollan2 said:


> I'll call him back! Will not having enough room on the switch cause the boxes to not see eachother?


Your currently using *9* out of *8* possible channels on the SWM. So it will cause all sorts of funky issues.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

jhollan2 said:


> I'll call him back! Will not having enough room on the switch cause the boxes to not see eachother?


"Room" is more the SAT signal.
"seeing" is more related to not being connected to your router [as Robert posted] need another DECA + PI to connect it.


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## jhollan2 (Aug 31, 2006)

I knew you guys would know! Thanks!


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

RobertE said:


> Secondly, you need an additional deca and power supply to bridge the deca cloud to your home network/internet. Using the 2nd ethernet jack may (is) cause you problems.


He's not using the 2nd ethernet jack as I read it. He has the extra DECA for the home network, but instead of using a PI on that DECA, it is connected to the SAT2 Input on the R22 in order to power it. Not the best setup, but I guess it will work.

- Merg


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## jhollan2 (Aug 31, 2006)

The Merg said:


> He's not using the 2nd ethernet jack as I read it. He has the extra DECA for the home network, but instead of using a PI on that DECA, it is connected to the SAT2 Input on the R22 in order to power it. Not the best setup, but I guess it will work.
> 
> - Merg


Correct. I tried moving the power up to that jack and the whole system went down. The tech is "dropping off" a SWM 16 tomorrow (in my mailbox) and I'm going to attempt to install it myself. Its either that or wait 2 weeks...


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## dwcolvin (Oct 4, 2007)

jhollan2 said:


> Correct. I tried moving the power up to that jack and the whole system went down. The tech is "dropping off" a SWM 16 tomorrow (in my mailbox) and I'm going to attempt to install it myself. Its either that or wait 2 weeks...


Do you have a SWM8 or a SWM LNB feeding an 8-way splitter? The SWM8 will have 4 wires coming from the dish, the SWM LNB will have only one wire. If you have a SWM LNB (which is what they're installing these days), the SWiM-16 will do you no good... it requires 4 wires from a non-SWM LNB, so the LNB would have to be changed.


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

dwcolvin said:


> Do you have a SWM8 or a SWM LNB feeding an 8-way splitter? The SWM8 will have 4 wires coming from the dish, the SWM LNB will have only one wire. If you have a SWM LNB (which is what they're installing these days), the SWiM-16 will do you no good... it requires 4 wires from a non-SWM LNB, so the LNB would have to be changed.


Looking at his description of the original install and upgrade, it looks like he got a SWM8 installed.

- Merg


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## BAHitman (Oct 24, 2007)

Wait... AS I read it, there is a loop in the network... if he has a DECA on the router, and an ethernet cable from one of the recievers to the router AND to a DECA adapter, then there is a network loop, and all sorts of bad things will happen...

to fix this check the following:

1. No reciever has 2 ethernet cables connected to it. 
2. EVERY reciever has a DECA and single ethernet cable connecting between it and the DECA adapter
3. 1 DECA connecting to your home router. it should be powered by a PI (Power Inserter)
4. get a SWM16 because you have 9 total tuners

By my count, you should have 6 DECA's, 1 Power inserter. if not, then the tech needs to come out and finish the job.


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## dwcolvin (Oct 4, 2007)

The Merg said:


> Looking at his description of the original install and upgrade, it looks like he got a SWM8 installed.


I couldn't tell from: _"He upgraded the SWM with an 8 (I think this is wrong but I'll get to that). The wires drop from the attic to the garage where there used to be an additional multiswitch. He got rid of that and split one line into two for one room. "_, which is why I asked. There didn't seem to be any reason to install a SWM8 (and Techs should at least know how to install SWM by now).


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## jhollan2 (Aug 31, 2006)

They "upgraded" the LNB to a single wire on saturday. I now have a SWM 8 with a single input. The tech is going to "drop off" a SWM 16 tomorrow but I am going to install it myself since I cant miss any more work waiting on them (and I'm a she FWIW  ) 

One of the HR20's (Living room) has been upgraded to a HR21. It still is split from the wall to the SWM power and the other to a DECA and sat in 1.

I have unplugged the ethernet from all boxes. All boxes now have ONLY a deca in the ethernet port. All boxes see the internet.

There are 5 boxes and 6 decas. One of the R22s has its input coming out of the wall to a splitter. One wire then goes to the DECA and to the R22. The other wire goes to the DECA that is tied to the ethernet and back to sat in 2 on the R22 for power.

The HR20 can only see the R22s
All other boxes see eachother except the HR20.

The install is jacked. When I told him (on sat) that he was using the wrong multiswitch he dismissed me and cut wires, rerouted wires etc. I'm really not sure this can be fixed. And now you guys think the one he's "dropping off" wont work? What do I do?!?!


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## Ken984 (Jan 1, 2006)

You cannot hook a swm lnb to a swm8. Maybe you think its is swm8 and its really just an 8 way splitter. You need a "legacy" LNB to use an outboard multiswitch like a swm8 or an swm 16, the installer needs to finish it the right way, and not drop off parts for you to deal with.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Can you post pictures?


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## jhollan2 (Aug 31, 2006)

I will take some now. This guy was COMPLETELY clueless. He just keeps begging me not to call Dtv and have a "roll back".


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

dwcolvin said:


> I couldn't tell from: _"He upgraded the SWM with an 8 (I think this is wrong but I'll get to that). The *wires* drop from the attic to the garage where there used to be an additional multiswitch. He got rid of that and split one line into two for one room. "_, which is why I asked. There didn't seem to be any reason to install a SWM8 (and Techs should at least know how to install SWM by now).


I went by the fact that he said *wires* drop and not wire from the attic to the garage. By reading the OP's next post though, you were correct in that a SWM-LNB was installed.

*@johllan2:*
In order to use the SWM16, as stated, you will need to replace the SWM-LNB with a legacy LNB and run all four wires from it down to the SWM16. From there you can feed out to all of your receivers. Basically, where your first splitter is you will put the SWM16. Put one of the outputs of the splitter on SWM1 and the other on SWM2. That will break up your tuners to be 8 or less on each SWM output.

- Merg


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## jhollan2 (Aug 31, 2006)

Its an 8 way splitter. Its not a multiswitch


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

jhollan2 said:


> Its an 8 way splitter. Its not a multiswitch


That's fine. After you replace the LNB, you will replace the splitter with the SWM16. How many outputs off of the splitter are being used?

- Merg


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## jhollan2 (Aug 31, 2006)

9 - but I guess I need another tech out here. I cant get to my dish.


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

jhollan2 said:


> 9 - but I guess I need another tech out here. I cant get to my dish.


So you have 9 cables coming out of an 8-way splitter?!? 

I assume you are counting the one cable going in?

Also, if you have only 5 receivers, the most outputs you should need would be 6 if you have one cable per receiver and ran a separate cable for the home network DECA. Where are the other cables going to?

- Merg


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## dwcolvin (Oct 4, 2007)

jhollan2 said:


> 9 - but I guess I need another tech out here. I cant get to my dish.


Yes, you definitely need a Tech. Change LNB, 4 wires to ground block to SWiM-16, different Power Inserter/Power Supply, at least one receiver on the SWM2 output, etc.


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## jhollan2 (Aug 31, 2006)

I called them and they will have a "supervisor" call me tomorrow. I have the wrong dish, wrong (or no) multiswitch, and they are unclear why I have so many splitters. They also dont like the deca being powered by the R22 connected to the router. I feel bad for the tech since I know that he'll get busted for the call - but it seems like he had no clue. Anyone want to place bets on them sending him back out here again? I'm guessing thats whats about to happen.


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## jhollan2 (Aug 31, 2006)

The Merg said:


> So you have 9 cables coming out of an 8-way splitter?!?
> 
> I assume you are counting the one cable going in?
> 
> ...


8 cables coming out - and then split again in the garage to go to the guestroom. Split again in the office to go to the router/deca


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

jhollan2 said:


> I called them and they will have a "supervisor" call me tomorrow. I have the wrong dish, wrong (or no) multiswitch, and they are unclear why I have so many splitters. They also dont like the deca being powered by the R22 connected to the router. I feel bad for the tech since I know that he'll get busted for the call - but it seems like he had no clue. Anyone want to place bets on them sending him back out here again? I'm guessing thats whats about to happen.


Well, the way the Internet DECA is installed is not per procedure for DirecTV. As you see it does work, but it is not how they want it.

- Merg


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## dwcolvin (Oct 4, 2007)

jhollan2 said:


> They "upgraded" the LNB to a single wire on saturday. I now have a SWM 8 with a single input. The tech is going to "drop off" a SWM 16 tomorrow but I am going to install it myself since I cant miss any more work waiting on them (and I'm a she FWIW  )
> 
> One of the HR20's (Living room) has been upgraded to a HR21. It still is split from the wall to the SWM power and the other to a DECA and sat in 1.
> 
> ...


Our confusion was because you don't have a SWM8, you have a SWM LNB. Both support 8 tuners, but the wiring from the dish is different. The SWM LNB has all (well, _most_) of the same guts as the SWM8 at the dish itself, so only needs one wire. The older SWM8 used the original LNB with 4 wires and its output was one wire (for the purposes of this discussion). The 4 inputs and power to a SWM8 and a SWiM-16 are the same, so _if_ you had a SWM8, you could have replaced the SWM8 with a SWiM-16 and all would be good. But you don't.

The Tech (or _another_ Tech) needs to fix this mess. And while he's at it, use a proper power supply to power the network interface DECA, not the second R22 input.

In the meantime, you can rerun Satellite Setup on one of the DVRs and disable one of the tuners so you'll only have 8, but all the boxes will work.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

:bang


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## bleggett29 (Feb 2, 2008)

johllan2, there seems to be some confusion weather you have an SWM LNB or a SWM8. Please tell us how many wires are coming from the dish.

To everyone else, before we confuse johllan2 any more than already has been, lets make sure we are all on the same page. Before we go any further, lets confirm the LNB first.


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## dwcolvin (Oct 4, 2007)

bleggett29 said:


> johllan2, there seems to be some confusion weather you have an SWM LNB or a SWM8. Please tell us how many wires are coming from the dish.
> 
> To everyone else, before we confuse johllan2 any more than already has been, lets make sure we are all on the same page. Before we go any further, lets confirm the LNB first.


I think the OP has pretty much confirmed it's a SWM LNB at this point.

In any event, this needs a truck roll to fix another botched install.

I don't see what part of _this_ (from 10/8/2009) is unclear:

When 8 tuner capacity is exceeded, Work Order Activities will include two SWiM 8 switches (plus the SWiM expander) or the SWiM 16 as soon as available (estimated for December 2009) to replace the 4X8 and / or WB 6X8.

Additionally, if the 8 tuner capacity is exceeded and the customer currently has a SWiM LNB, that must be replaced with a KA KY LNB (SL3 or SL5). The Activity will also include two SWiM 8 switches (plus the SWiM Expander) or the SWiM 16 when available.


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

dwcolvin said:


> I think the OP has pretty much confirmed it's a SWM LNB at this point.
> 
> In any event, this needs a truck roll to fix another botched install.
> 
> ...


With regard to MRV though, that has changed slightly. If you are having MRV installed, you need to have the SWM16 installed otherwise the receivers on one SWM8 do not see the receivers on the other SWM8.

- Merg


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## dwcolvin (Oct 4, 2007)

The Merg said:


> With regard to MRV though, that has changed slightly. If you are having MRV installed, you need to have the SWM16 installed otherwise the receivers on one SWM8 do not see the receivers on the other SWM8.


I think we all understand that. But isn't that covered by the _"SWiM 16 *as soon as it becomes available*"_ wording?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

dwcolvin said:


> I think we all understand that. But isn't that covered by the _"SWiM 16 *as soon as it becomes available*"_ wording?


The SWiM-16s seemed to have been stocked at the warehouses with enough inventory to be available, "if" they were ordered.


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## HDTVsportsfan (Nov 29, 2005)

jhollan2 said:


> I called them and they will have a "supervisor" call me tomorrow. I have the wrong dish, wrong (or no) multiswitch, and they are unclear why I have so many splitters. They also dont like the deca being powered by the R22 connected to the router. I feel bad for the tech since I know that he'll get busted for the call - but it seems like he had no clue. Anyone want to place bets on them sending him back out here again? I'm guessing thats whats about to happen.


I wouldn't be concerned about "busting" this installer. It's not like you're out to get him. Shame on his supervisor for putting him in a situation that he was not trained for or couldn't handle. I would politely request a new technician. Preferably the supervisor himself at ths point. I would also keep DirecTV up to date as well. Depending on how far you took that at least have them put notes on your account and have them read it back.


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## Directvlover (Aug 27, 2007)

It surprises me that there are so many untrained techs out there doing this stuff. Last weekend I just had one of the best techs to my house ever. He went through and repaired alot of shotty work that previous techs (like the one you obviously had) have done over the years. Finally by Directv system is solid, done right and works better than it ever has. It's sad that a bunch of us on a message board are more qualified than techs who have "passed the training course" but are still not sure. Geesh. DTV needs to wake up. Their service/technology is top notch and better than anything out there, but the cust service stinks.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

Directvlover said:


> It surprises me that there are so many untrained techs out there doing this stuff. Last weekend I just had one of the best techs to my house ever. He went through and repaired alot of shotty work that previous techs (like the one you obviously had) have done over the years. Finally by Directv system is solid, done right and works better than it ever has. It's sad that a bunch of us on a message board are more qualified than techs who have "passed the training course" but are still not sure. Geesh. DTV needs to wake up. Their service/technology is top notch and better than anything out there, but the cust service stinks.


Every tech is supposed to take an online test by the SBCA to be certified. I believe you needed an 80 or 90 to pass. It was 20 something questions.

Some problems I observed and heard were that:

Some of your better techs were helping the stragglers on the test so they as a class could get the heck out of there and make some money for the day.

Some sub-contractor "supervisors" were taking the test for their entire crew. Even taking tests for "ghost" techs. Same holds true for a number of supervisors and techs at some HSPs.

I could go on, but you get the picture.


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## dwcolvin (Oct 4, 2007)

Directvlover said:


> It surprises me that there are so many untrained techs out there doing this stuff. Last weekend I just had one of the best techs to my house ever. He went through and repaired alot of shotty work that previous techs (like the one you obviously had) have done over the years. Finally by Directv system is solid, done right and works better than it ever has. It's sad that a bunch of us on a message board are more qualified than techs who have "passed the training course" but are still not sure. Geesh. DTV needs to wake up. Their service/technology is top notch and better than anything out there, but the cust service stinks.


I don't claim to understand the complexities of the D* network of installers, or the way installers are trained and compensated. But I daresay many of us are better educated and more motivated to understand the technology than the guys crawling on the roof or in the attic or crawlspace.

Having said that, all the installers I've had have been friendly and professional.


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## iceturkee (Apr 1, 2007)

jhollan2 said:


> I will take some now. This guy was COMPLETELY clueless. He just keeps begging me not to call Dtv and have a "roll back".


don't want to burst your bubble but as soon as he said he had no idea what he was doing and was also late, i would have sent him home. then i would have immediately called dtv.

i had a monor problem with my original installer who was missing a piece. i called dtv and complained. fortunately, another tech did the install. and dtv called me back a few days later to make sure there was no problem with my install.


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## jhollan2 (Aug 31, 2006)

So... the same tech that screwed the whole thing up showed up 2 hours late for the install today. I really thought about sending him home - but he appologized and said he knew how to fix it now. I still think its messy, but it works.

He changed the dish BACK to the LNB with 4 wires coming out. He then installed a SWM 16 and powered it in the attic. He took lines off of that and send it to 2 8 way splitters. I'm not sure whats up with the splitters, but its working. All boxes have MRV and internet access.

What confounds me is the power units. There are 3! One in the attic, one on the deca that isnt connected to any dish (only the router) and another on the living room HR21 that is powering the splitters (so he says). I've tried playing around with unplugging the living room one but that kills all the signals.

He seemed really surprised when it worked (um... that inspires confidence how???). I documented everything with directv and am really sick of hearing "I can understand how that can be frustrating" but it works out in the end. They comped HD for 6 months and didnt charge me for the upgrade. I would have been happy with not being charged for the upgrade.

Hopefully this will work, for now...


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

Not sure why you'd have 3 power inserters. At most there should be 2. 1 powering the SWiM16. This really can be anywhere in the distribution chain. The other one will be supplying power to the deca that connects to your internet.


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## David Ortiz (Aug 21, 2006)

jhollan2 said:


> So... the same tech that screwed the whole thing up showed up 2 hours late for the install today. I really thought about sending him home - but he appologized and said he knew how to fix it now. I still think its messy, but it works.
> 
> He changed the dish BACK to the LNB with 4 wires coming out. He then installed a SWM 16 and powered it in the attic. He took lines off of that and send it to 2 8 way splitters. I'm not sure whats up with the splitters, but its working. All boxes have MRV and internet access.
> 
> ...


Can you post some pictures? I agree, there should only be 2 PIs. The SWiM-16 has two possible ports for power, and I don't think you should connect both of them.


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## jhollan2 (Aug 31, 2006)

I'll have to take them in the morning. Last time the flash blurred out everything so I didnt post.


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