# Dish Lawsuit



## llunken777

Did anyone receive their letter in regards to the Dishplayer lawsuit? It stated several benifits to current and past owners of dishplayers. I'm glad that somebody is finally doing something about these poorly designed units.


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## Bill R

Yes, I just got the notice in the mail this morning. The only people that are going to get much out of this are the lawyers.

For those that didn't get the notice (or don't own DishPlayers, models 7100, 7200, 7222, or 7222T) here is the settlement claim form:

*DISHPLAYER CLASS ACTION SETTLEMENT CLAIM FORM

(Must be mailed so that it is received by September 1, 2004.)

Pursuant to the terms of the settlement relating to DISHPlayer satellite receivers in the
lawsuit captioned Prestemon v. EchoStar Communications Corporation, et al., you are
entitled, as a Class Member, to select one of the following forms of settlement relief.*
Please check the benefit that you chose to receive:

[] Option 1 - Eleven non-transferable certificates in the amount of $3.99
plus tax each that are redeemable towards the purchase of any pay-per-
view movies offered by EchoStar and one non-transferable credit in the
amount of $25.00 that will be applied toward subsequent PTV Service
subscription fees.

or

[] Option 2 - One non-transferable certificate in the amount of $50.00 that is
redeemable towards the purchase of satellite television reception
equipment offered by EchoStar and one non-transferable credit in the
amount of $20.00 that will be applied towards subsequent PTV Service
subscription fees.

To receive your chosen benefit, please confirm your customer infomation below, sign in
the space indicated below, and mail this original claim form to the following address.
Your claim form must be received on or before September 1, 2004.

DISHPlayer Settlement Claims
PO Box 11068
Denver, Colorado 80211

Customer Information (please print):

Name:

(please print your name as shown on your last DISH Network billing statement)

Telephone Number:
Street Address:
City, State, ZIP Code:

Signature:

*You have been sent this Claim Form because EchoStar's records indicate that you are a current
customer. If this is incorrect, please call Class Counsel at (800) 589-9886. Do not contact
EchoStar.*


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## Mike123abc

How much do you want to be the lawyers get 3-5 million plus expenses out of this while the users get $70 of Dish stuff?


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## kmcnamara

This may be the 1st class action lawsuit I may go ahead and take advantage of. The only problem was mine just came with the main pamphlet. It said there should be some kind of additional form but my envelope didn't have anything else in it. I guess I'll have to call someone.


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## SimpleSimon

What was this lawsuit about? I used to have a DishPlayer, but traded it in for a 501.


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## TBarclay

I got mine today as well. I only wish the PPV certificates would include the extra fee when you can't order with your remote. I haven't ordered a PPV in years because I only use a cell phone--got rid of my landline.


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## red hazard

I just got a letter folded into 3 sections front and back; no form to fill out. It says the court hearing is in Oakland, CA but the shyeerrr I mean lawyer whose name is on the letter is out of Columbus, OH.

It says, "The claim in this law suit is that the "DISHplayer" satellite receiver was defective." That's all. The letter also talks about a similar pending law suit in Cook Country Illinois that has not been ruled on. It also differentiates between current and past subscribers and those members that use PTV services.

Paraphasing part of the letter below:
The possible awards range from certificates worth $19.95 for PPV. Current subscribers who are class members using PTV Services for an additional charge and who choose to participate in the Settlement will received benefits according to an election procedure ranging from eight to eleven certificates (valued at $3.99 ea) redeemable for purchase of PPVs for plus a $25 dollar credit toward subsequent PTV subscription fees and/or $20 - $50 worth of certificates redeemable toward the purchase of satellite television equipment from E*, plus a $20 credit toward subsequent PTV fees for those receiving PTV for an additional charge. Former subscribers who are class members will receive benefits according to a claim procedure will receive benefits ranging from $30 - $50 in certificates redeemable towards the purchase of satellite television reception equipment from E* or checks ranging from $5 - $20. For specific relief available to you see the enclosed claim form.

It goes on to state, "You can remain a member of the class by doing nothing." I don't know if that mean I still get something if I don't fill out the claim form that was not included in the letter or not.

I had my DISHplayer activated for about 18 months 1999 - 2000 and cancelled service because I didn't care for the problems the receiver had.

*I wonder when we will be getting a similar letter about the 811 receiver.* 

On second thought, I pasted Bill R's posting of the form above into a word document and will be sending it in. Thanks Bill R!!


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## Chris Blount

Here is the entire document in PDF format. You will need to rotate the doc before reading. Each file is about 230MB

*Page 1*
*Page 2*


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## olgeezer

Instead of rotating, you could turn your moniter on its side. The settlement seems to really let the parties of the hook. Although i will probably not accept it as i'm not big on law suits of things, as an adult, i decided iwanted i needed i couldn't live without, even if it didn't wrk all the time.


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## Phil T

I am an ex-Dish subscriber who sold my Dishplayer after 4+ years, so no smart card to send in. It looks like the only thing I could get out of this is a $50.00 discount on Dish equipment. 

No thanks, My DirecTivos are doing just fine.


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## Jacob S

So are those that used to own a DishPlayer or was a previous subscriber and no longer one anymore not eligible for this?


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## Bill R

Jacob S said:


> So are those that used to own a DishPlayer or was a previous subscriber and no longer one anymore not eligible for this?


It appears from the material that I received that you are correct. If so, the law firm that put this together sure sold out the people that DID own "defective" DishPlayers. I would advise the people that did own DishPlayers to call the Class Counsel at (800) 589-9886 and see what they tell you. Also, it might be a good idea to opt-out on THIS class action. There is a least one other action in the works and it _might_ result in a better deal for previous (and maybe current) DishPlayer owners.

One thing that you can conclude from all this and the "deal" that was worked out is that Echostar has much better Lawyers than they do marketing and customer service people. It was the marketing and customer service team that decided NOT to give the DishPlayer owners a good deal (like a FREE DVR on a different model receiver). A few people did get a 501 to replace their DishPlayers but it was not a general offer to ALL DishPlayer owners like it should have been. They decided that they would take a chance in court IF there was ever a class action lawsuit. I think that it is fitting that the heads of both of those departments are now gone. The really sad thing is that the DishPlayer problems caused DISH to lose tens of thousands of customers and to gain the reputation as a company that does not have reliable hardware and a customer service department that doesn't care about customers. The damage done by the DishPlayer fiasco will haunt Echostar for years to come.


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## Nick

It had to be Dan Collins and/or Bob Haller. 

About 3-4 years ago Dan, who took over admin of DBSForum from John Hodgen (sp?), got his panties in a wad about the DP. Dan even tried to promote a CA against E*. Things got pretty nasty, I wrote a long "editorial" against the proposed CA, Dan retorted with some pretty heavy verbage which really jacked my jaws. That's when I picked up my toys and left. I was a street curmudgeon looking for a home when, thankfully, I found DBSTalk.

Funny thing is, I've NEVER had nearly the extent of problems with either of my two Dishplayers in the four years I've had them, or with the more recent 811 for that matter. To tell the truth, IMO, the DP is one of the most elegantly designed receivers I've seen. It was wa-a-a-y ahead of its time when was introduced in '99. Other than a relatively small but upgradeable HDD, its design and operation just blew me away and still does.

I use the wireless keyboard and alpha search feature all the time, searching for specific movies, actors, directors, sports events. The 9-day EPG is great for setting up recordings, automatic channel-changes and a week's worth of Braves' games at a time. I just wish all of E*'s DVRs had the features and ease of operation that the DP has.

When I added the 811, I took DP #2 offline and relegated it to back-up status. If, after an amazing four years of reliable and continuous 24/7 operation, DP #1 should fail, I'm ready to swap out during a commercial break and continue for what well may be another 1-2-3 years until 2-tuner HD DVRs come down in price so that we ordinary mortals can afford them.

I thought the idea of a class action lawsuit was silly and unjustified then, and I still do now. Machines don't often work well for mean-spirited people. That's why I always remember to appreciate those things that serve me and tend to make my life even more enjoyable.

Keep the coupons, I'll not join the suit. It's all about karma. You either have or you don't. :sure:


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## llunken777

I owned both a dishplayer 7100 and 7200 with nothing but problems almost weekly with them. I literally had to put dish tech support number on my speed dial. I don't normally approve of law suits but in this case I'm all for it.


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## Bob Haller

Nick. Its nice that SOMEONES DP ran well, but on the other hand good operation should be the ruke rather than the exception.

This class action is a waste. I WISH one would REALLY punish a company producing defective product. If E for example had to pay each and every unhappy DP, 721, 921 or other box user $500 every box would run fine after that.

Pure and simple charlie doesnt care and screwed his customers.

Having had a supplier of mine who builds laminating machines build junk quality machines and not care. This is a hot button for me. companies should have a little pride and care for their custonmers


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## Nick

Bob, your "wish" goes way past equity. That you want to "punish a company" is bizarre and beyond the pale. Your all-consuming need for revenge is indicative of a sickness, one which has infected more than one forum over the years. 

I said it's about karma and I believe that. It's also about possessing a decent attitude and being reasonable in the resolution of problems. Your hyper-negative posting history here is well-known by most who have been reading the Dishnetwork threads for anytime at all.

In my experience, more than half of technical problems and failures can be attributed to 'operator malfunction'. You seem to be the "Linus" that consistently attracts the dark cloud of pending disaster.

I also believe you are dead-wrong when you say Charlie Ergen doesn't care. Whatever problems you may have with E* support may be a reflection of your own bad attitude in dealing with E* CSRs and tech support. 

It's all about treating people the way you want to be treated.


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## Bob Haller

Nick said:


> Bob, your "wish" goes way past equity. That you want to "punish a company" is bizarre and beyond the pale. Your all-consuming need for revenge is indicative of a sickness, one which has infected more than one forum over the years.
> 
> I said it's about karma and I believe that. It's also about possessing a decent attitude and being reasonable in the resolution of problems. Your hyper-negative posting history here is well-known by most who have been reading the Dishnetwork threads for anytime at all.
> 
> In my experience, more than half of technical problems and failures can be attributed to 'operator malfunction'. You seem to be the "Linus" that consistently attracts the dark cloud of pending disaster.
> 
> I also believe you are dead-wrong when you say Charlie Ergen doesn't care. Whatever problems you may have with E* support may be a reflection of your own bad attitude in dealing with E* CSRs and tech support.
> 
> It's all about treating people the way you want to be treated.


Nick, just what do you value your time? I along with most DP owners must of spent a 100 hours over the time I used it doing reboots, entering codes, waiting for tech support, waiting for new software, and hanging out here looking for bug work arounds, let alone trying to help others

At a measely $5 a hour $500 isnt really enough but its better than $20. As I said a hot button of mine is any company knowilngly selling a product that just doesnt work. I once told a laminator manufacturer this will NEVER work as designed. I was a beta tester and the units were junk 

The head of marketing said fixing them will delay release. That wasnt a option and the company went on to sell a gazillion of them none of which worked.

As to my comment that charlie doesnt care. We we have one sad fact. NO E DVR has ever been released on time withj stable software. My 721 today bogged down and brain farted durng recording. Rebooting is a normal event for many owners.

A GREAT example of accepting and releasing a half finished mess is the 921.

E blamed Microsoft, Now they blame Eldon, wonder who they will blame next :eek2:

Actually E tech support is pretty good. They do the best they can with what they have to work with.....

As far as treating people like I would like to be treated.

I wonder how Charlie or even you Nick would feel if your furnace was as reliable as a average dishplayer? :nono:


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## Nick

As I have said elsewhere, satisfied customers seldom post. They're too busy enjoying life and watching tv. You assume that every dishplayer owner had the same degree of problems you had. I do not believe that to be the case.

You've mentioned laminating machines twice now.  I have no idea what that's about, but I have noticed that you tend to cloud issues with a lot of external, unrelated stuff. 

I tried connecting my furnace to my HD tv. I got the Hell channel (ch 666). The PQ was fine, but my set started to overheat.

You haven't convinced me of anything yet, Bob. Keep on trying while I watch the news on my trusty dishplayer. :grin:


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## SimpleSimon

Nick said:


> ...You've mentioned laminating machines twice now.  I have no idea what that's about, but I have noticed that you tend to cloud issues with a lot of external, unrelated stuff.


I saw the relationship immediately. It's a cancer all over corporate america - announce a product before it's designed, ship it before it's ready. Happens all the time.


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## Mark Holtz

What really turned my off was last year when they annouced that the new DVR units would carry a $5 fee. For what? The electronic equivelent of a VCR only that you could just pick the program from the program guide and it would insert both a start and stop time. I don't mind doing that if the cost was free. I wasn't expecting TiVo functionality.

Once Dish announced that $5 fee, I was ready to walk. Then, they compared the $5 fee to a standalone TiVo's $12 monthly fee. That's like comparing apples to oranges. The DirecTiVo software is also $5 per month, and with some minor gripes, the DirecTiVo system is superior. At the time I purchased the system, I paid _less_ for a phase III dish, a 40GB DirecTiVo, and two standalone receivers. Since I lost the Encore theme channels, my monthly bill went down. And, I put in another $200 to upgrade the hard drives for maximum recording capacity. There is some definate differences between the 301 receiver and the HBH-SA receiver.

As for the original DishPlayer, I don't place all of the blame on Dish. Microsoft had a hand in the software, gave Dish the shaft, created UltimateTV for DirecTV based upon the Dishplayer code, then abandon the UltimateTV unit. No wonder Dish wants to keep software development in-house. But it's backfiring on them.

The 721 code is based upon Linux which also runs the DirecTiVos. You can take a look at a project such as MythTV which I believe can be implemented in the receivers.


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## Bob Haller

Nick I can never convince you of anything But thats OK, If you compare the posts from a year ago till today I believe you will see a anti E bias beginning. E went out of their way with new fees and espically the 921 to EARN the reputation they are getting.

Heck someone reported a E insider said the NEW 942? HD DVR will be out in december no matter what. E still doesnt get it. Marketing before engineering is a recipe for yet another 921.

I wonder if Nick is a E stockholder or insider? It doesnt matter but few people ever report a flawless dishplayer..... he must be the only one...

The E cable pig add is funny, espically the part about cable fees Charlie appears to have forgotten the $5.99 warranty FEE and the $4.99 DVR FEE. The VOD reference is a howl too....L(


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## Lee L

I got the letter too, seems like it is a little different than what is posted here though and says that they have me as a former Dish Sub. They do want me to send in my smart cards and I thought it said I could get $15.00 per DP in return. I sold my DP's so I do not have a smart card to send in. I did get a pretty good amount for them so I will not be too mad if I can't get the money. but it does seem silly to not even adress people who the record is clear used the thing for years and got rid of it. Maybe they figured every consumer device sold eventually gets retired to a closet or something?


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## LarryS

So for us Dishplayer users who got totally frustrated and dumped both the DP and E* the lawsuit gives us nothing. I guess my only compensation is the suspicion that my Dishplayers have been hacked and have been depriving E* of subscription revenue. That and the selling prices that paid for my DTivo equipment.


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## Nick

Bob Haller said:


> ...I wonder if Nick is a E stockholder or insider?...


Actually, "Nick" is only my handle, my real name is Charlie.



> ...few people ever report a flawless dishplayer...he must be the only one...


I've said this before, Bob. Satisfied users don't complain and very few bother to post their satisfaction. :nono2:

Please pay attention.

(P.S. to Bob: Please feel free to go visit our new, state-of-the-art uplink facility in Bangladesh. Just tell 'em "Charlie" sent you.)


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## mattyro

I loved my Dishplayer.I had to reboot it a little too often but if I could get one now--I'd buy it!!


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## Jacob S

Most people that have problems with the DishPlayer and do not want to hassle with it try to call and have something about it and when nothing is done they just move on, either staying with Dish, or going back to cable or with DirecTivo. Sure some may complain for a while but move on so they do not have to deal with the problem anymore.

Anytime something comes out for the first time it is going to be more buggy than the future generation that will come out. Some people overlook some of the problems with the new functionality that the receiver has to bring in which has never been seen before but eventually people do tire of the issues if they are not resolved.

I think it would have been fair for Dish to have at least offered a replacement DVR to those DishPlayer customers that called in and complained about it or a special offer for them. For those that kept the DishPlayers long enough it looks like they got rewarded with a nice sum of money, a lot of times more than what they paid for the receiver, so that in itself helps make up for it, even though Dish was not the one to help. Maybe that is one reason why Dish is waiting longer to fix the DishPlayer smart card issues so that people can sell them for more instead of expecting Dish to pay and make up for it.


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## Guest

I got my dishplayer 7100 and 7200 back when they first came out.
I was sick of cox cable and wanted something better.
I had DVR (tivo) technology before anyone knew what it was (even me).
I thought it was standard technology for satellite service.
I have had them for years, before I just upgraded and got a 721.
All of these without the VOD fee, and I am only paying the $1.99 warranty fee. If you were a loyal E* customer, you would have these options also.
The tech support line has always helped me with minimal wait times.
I am very HAPPY with Dish and don't write enough in support of them.
I have had my 721 for a month now with not one single problem (knock on wood).


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## jackie50

From my perspective, the Webtv now Msntv end of the receiver was a farce. They told us when we bought it was a full fledged Webtv Plus receiver. That in fact was not true. The Dishplayer version of Webtv plus had severe limitations. It could not do several important things that the standalone Webtv plus could do. It still to this day is not upgraded to the same standard nor will it ever be. There were no disclaimers when I purchased it that this would in fact be a "Different" Webtv plus. Those of you who never used the Webtv side as I did on a daily basis were not even exposed to this problem.


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## djlong

I was quite the Dish cheerleader. It was the Dishplayer that got me to go from my BUD to a minidish. I was exceedingly happy with the DP and had only a *fraction* of the bugs that I'd heard about here.

....then it happened.... When they were switching locals around from sat to sat getting ready for a big Jan 1 date where they needed compliance. EVERY DAY my DP was useless when I got up in the morning. For TWO WEEKS I had to hit the 32768 code and rebuild all my lists. I went on vacation and NOTHING recorded because it was stuck in a "thank you for updating your software" screen waiting for me to hit 'done'. Some of the most idiotic software design I've ever seen.

Ever since then it's been buggy - worse at times than others. Then I started hearing about new E* DVRs and figured Dish had learned their lesson. Not so. Problems with every new DVR that comes out - some even lacking basic functions. Unbelievable that they released a product in this condition - and never mind the 'dishwire' fiasco.

It astonishes me that people will say "Yeah, I paid $1K for a 921 and it *mostly* works but it's a complicated piece of hardware and you have to expect problems". Compared with the HDTiVo people with just about no complaints for the same price.

For a thousand dollars, I want something that *works*. Under no circumstances should there be a topic about DIsh telling people "how to properly reboot a 921".

When I get the money to invest and upgrade the home theater and go HD, I'm leaving Dish behind and it saddens me to say that because, on the whole, I liked the Dish channels selection a little better.


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## crkeehn

There are different versions of the letter, depending on what your relationship to E* and the dishplayer are. As an ex-subscriber, I was given the option of either a $50 credit towards equipment or a check for $20 which required the return of the smart card.


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## finniganps

crkeehn said:


> There are different versions of the letter, depending on what your relationship to E* and the dishplayer are. As an ex-subscriber, I was given the option of either a $50 credit towards equipment or a check for $20 which required the return of the smart card.


I had my dishplayer until December 2003 (bought new in 1999, sold in 2003). I haven't received the letter about the settlement. Does that mean I'm not eligible or that perhaps the letters went out in batches and that I simply haven't received mine yet? Any thoughts?


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## Bob Haller

web tv never ever worked for me. it crashed and was buggier than the satellite tv portion of the box. what a great product with terrible implemenation


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## Jacob S

So they want $20 to have the card returned huh? Sounds more like a way to settle their issues with DishPlayer piracy to me to help them than to help the consumer.


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## Chris Blount

Here is what SkyReport has to say:

----------------------------------------------

Past and present DISH Network subscribers who had the DISHPlayer satellite TV receiver/PVR could be eligible for pay-per-view coupons or other benefits under a proposed settlement concerning the product and its alleged defects.

California Superior Court in Oakland has been working on a class action case involving defendants EchoStar and WebTV Networks over DISHPlayer, the much talked-about set-top box that put EchoStar into the PVR business in the late 1990s. Attorneys on both sides have produced a proposed settlement to wrap up the litigation, which was first filed with the court in May 2002.

Under the proposed settlement, current EchoStar subscribers who are class members but do not subscribe to interactive "PTV" services and participate in the settlement will receive non-transferable certificates valued at $19.95 plus tax, redeemable towards the purchase of DISH Network pay-per-view movies. Current subscribers who are class members using PTV services will receive between eight and 11 non-transferable certificates valued at $3.99 plus tax for pay-per-view movies, plus a non-transferable $25 credit toward subsequent PTV subscription fees. Those customers also can get $20 to $50 worth of certificates for the purchase of satellite TV equipment from EchoStar, plus a $20 credit toward subsequent PTV service subscription fees, the court document detailing the proposed settlement said.

Former subscribers who are class members and choose to participate in the settlement will receive $30 to $50 in non-transferable certificates for the purchase of satellite TV equipment from EchoStar, or checks ranging from $5 to $20, the document said.

EchoStar would not comment on the litigation or the proposed settlement.

The defendants have maintained in the case that the DISHPlayer system is not defective. Nonetheless, the settlement is intended to settle and release all alleged claims against the defendants, the proposed settlement stated.

The California court overseeing the matter will hold a hearing Aug. 31 to determine if the settlement should be approved.

http://www.skyreport.com (Used with permission)


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## stonecold

my soultion is to give every 7x00 user a 721 enough said.


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## dlh1435

I got the 3 page suit in the mail.I did not sign anything thing or send anything in.do I need to do anything?like call them to add my name or something.


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## Jacob S

I agree stonecold, every DishPlayer owner should get a 721 to make up for the DishPlayers. If some want to say how it is more expensive and has more functionality then that will just make up for all the aggervation the DishPlayer owners went through all along plus make up for the lack of WebTv functionality in the 721. The 721 prices have dropped down a good bit anyways, about as low as the DishPlayers were going for.


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## Phil T

If dish would have offered a discount towards a 721 last summer I would have stayed with them.

Now it is way to little, way to late. :shrug:


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