# FINALLY: DTV Acknowledges HR20/21 Satellite 110 Tuner 2 Bug,"



## capdood (Oct 19, 2007)

This problem has been discussed extensively, http://dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=116431, and for those experiencing it, the joy of DTV is muted, at best. This is the rather unusual situation of a 771 message which is clearly not installation-related, but rather software/receiver related, whereby HD channels on the 110 satellite can not be received on Tuner 2. These are mostly the 70's channels, although I have received the message on other new HD channels as well.

It is characterized by receiving 771 messages on these HD channels which can then usually be resolved by switching tuners and going back to the problem channel which is then usually viewable, or by resetting the receiver. But for recordings that switch to those channels when the viewer is in absentia, more often than not you are left with a recording that when viewed, goes immediately to the "Do You Want To Delete? message. In other words, nothing - a blank recording.

Many of us have been frustrated by DTV failing to acknowledge that this is a problem. The thread linked above has horror story after horror story of replaced dishes, receivers, switches, cables, BBC's, etc. In fact, when I set up my final "fix it, or take it out" appointment yesterday, the Retention Specialist indicated that he never heard of the problem.

Well, to make a long story short, while I was promised a visit by a SENIOR TECH, I actually was called on by a nice young guy who also had never heard of the problem either. When I showed him the issue while he was there, and played him some of my blank recordings, he seemed perplexed and called his supervisor.

While listening on the tech's speaker phone, this supervisor, after hearing the problem, quickly told the tech that there is nothing he can do to solve the problem on the visit. HE SAID THAT DIRECT TV WAS AWARE OF THE HR20/21 BUG and that they had received a directive on it just recently. The supervisor admited to the tech that other techs from this same shop (Berkeley area) had come back from other customers reporting the same exact problem.

He told my tech that this was a SOFTWARE ISSUE that DTV was aware of, and it would resolve itself in future updates.

Well..... Take all that for what its worth. It still doesn't explain why many more folks wouldn't have the problem if was simply software, but as one astute contributor pointed out, it is the complicated interaction between the software AND receiver that creates the problem.

When I asked the tech to query his supe on when this software fix would be arriving, he had no answers.

Am I happy now? I am glad that the problem has been officially acknowledged. I am not happy that I took another morning off from work to resolve a DTV problem that is still unresolved, causing my family grief, and has no definitive time frame on its resolution.

Since the problem, as reported in the previous thread, seems to be much less prevalent with the HR21's, I, for one, am going to demand that one replace my HR 20 exhibiting the problem, or the next service call they make will be to take all this crap out of my house.

I am wondering if other customers receiving service calls on this issue are now being told that this is a software problem that DTV acknowledges and will fix?


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

I personally have not noticed the problem, but I also haven't been watching any of the MPEG2 HD stations recently which makes it unlikely that I would even see it .. Hopefully you are correct and things will get better soon, there's a whole lot of hearsay in the chain of communication.


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## bradpr (Sep 8, 2007)

I've had the problem for 8 months now. 

D* has replaced my receiver three times, replaced my multi switch, replaced my LNB, and recabled my install. All of this & I haven't had to pay a dime, even though I refuse to pay the protection plan fee. It would seem that they would have good reason to figure out the problem because it is costing them $$.

Maybe what capdood overheard is for real & they'll get this fixed.


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## betterdan (May 23, 2007)

Can't say I ever remember having this problem but I hope for those that do it gets fixed soon.


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

For those interested, this problem effects primarily the HR20-100. I had the problem on an _HR21_-100, though, but the problem went away after a CE software update, so I would expect it to be fixed in the next NR software for the effected receivers. It seems to have first appeared about the same time as the SWM-enabling software was introduced.

For whatever reasons, we have determined that it does not effect all HR20-100's, but the refurb's being sent as replacements or for new installs are almost all effected, probably because others have returned them for this very reason.

Those having the problem have clearly demonstrated that after a reboot, the problem goes away until the 103(c) tuner is again first used, either by tuning to a 103(c) channel or accessing the 103(c) signal strength page in the menu. It is also to be noted that tuner 2 works fine all the time if the BBC is removed, but then of course you can't receive any 103(c) channels on that tuner.


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## william8004 (Oct 6, 2006)

I called today about the same thing happening to me on one of my HR20-700s. They are sending me another one. Should I cancel it?

We'll turn on the TV and Disney HD channel shows searching for sat. We turn to Sd and then back to HD and sometimes it comes in. Other times we need to reboot.


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## oldcrooner (Feb 23, 2004)

I had the problem for a long time also until they replaced the HR20 with an HR21 receiver. Nothing else, including several different HR20 receivers, new cabling, new LNBs, new BBCs etc., would correct it. Of course, I was then stuck with no OTA reception capability which I wanted and needed.  I told the technicians and other people involved that it had to be a Directv receiver/software problem and that when the HR21 OTA USB option became available, I expected to receive one free of charge. I think that would be only fair compensation for all the hassle I had to go through along with their inability and/or unwillingness to admit to a problem with their receivers/software!


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## william8004 (Oct 6, 2006)

Oh yeah. I almost forgot:

The CSR asked me what the available space we had on the HD. I told her 58% used. she then said that sometimes the DVRs had problems like this when they got less than 40% available. And since I was at that point, I could delete some stuff to see if the problem went away.

I said that defeated the whole purpose of a DVR.


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## oldcrooner (Feb 23, 2004)

william8004 said:


> Oh yeah. I almost forgot:
> 
> The CSR asked me what the available space we had on the HD. I told her 58% used. she then said that sometimes the DVRs had problems like this when they got less than 40% available. And since I was at that point, I could delete some stuff to see if the problem went away.
> 
> I said that defeated the whole purpose of a DVR.


I came to the conclusion a long time ago that many CSRs will tell you just about anything to get you out of their hair, including inane things like this. The whole CSR incompetence thing is a real negative that Directv needs to deal with and SOON! It can't be doing anything positive for their business. :eek2:


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## Dknow (Oct 11, 2006)

william8004 said:


> I called today about the same thing happening to me on one of my HR20-700s. They are sending me another one. Should I cancel it?
> 
> We'll turn on the TV and Disney HD channel shows searching for sat. We turn to Sd and then back to HD and sometimes it comes in. Other times we need to reboot.


No that's either a bad receiver or somethings wrong with the install. Do not cancel it! This SFSS problem occurs on the HR20-100 only on the 110 satellite on tuner 2.


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## JDubbs413 (Sep 4, 2007)

I had this problem with one of my receivers once and got a new one from DTV.


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## msbirr (Apr 19, 2008)

FWIW. I find that this can be fixed simply by unconnecting the coax for a moment and then reconnecting. Much faster than a reboot etc. I keep the coax f connector screwed on just a tad to facilitate this.

hth


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## smiddy (Apr 5, 2006)

Whoa! I had not seen this myself (HR20-700 and HR21-200) but alas Like Doug pointed out about his behavior, mine is similar, I only record Star Trek Enterprise from 79 and Mrs. Smiddy usually records a soap during the same time period which is a local over the sat; we've never seen this.

I hope they have finally identified this, since I recall a lot of folks getting similar items in the CE threads. Thanks for sharing!


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## smiddy (Apr 5, 2006)

msbirr said:


> FWIW. I find that this can be fixed simply by unconnecting the coax for a moment and then reconnecting. Much faster than a reboot etc. I keep the coax f connector screwed on just a tad to facilitate this.
> 
> hth


:welcome_s Welcome to the forum!


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## gfrang (Aug 30, 2007)

My signals tuner 1 96 92 97 tuner 2 80 76 93
today is a good clear day when it gets cloudy tuner 2 drops like a rock when it rains it goes up sometimes to tuner 1 readings. I never called to complain because i don't want a HR21{need ota) or another 2 year commitment.


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## capdood (Oct 19, 2007)

I found a simple way to replicate the problem -- and did so when the tech was here yesterday. 

First go to ESPN Channel 73 -- the biggest offender for me. Then through the menu selection, go to set up and then to the test signal screen. Without even needing to wait for the screen to fill with readings, select "done." You will be brought back to the set up menu, and will see the miniature TV picture screen (in the upper right hand corner) showing the "771" message. Hitting exit brings you to the full "771" message on Channel 73. I showed the tech how I could then switch channels and go back to 73 where the picture was then viewable. 

Going through the same process starting with a Tuner 1 channel will always leave the set up menu picture showing a problem free miniature picture -- not the 771 message that seems to appear when the starting channel is 73, or one of the other HD problem channels.

I tested this theory more than 20 times and it seemed to hold. I don't know understand why this process almost always yields the dreaded "771" problem, but it does.

This might be useful for those of us who have had this problem -- but can't replicate it when a tech arrives.


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

william8004 said:


> I called today about the same thing happening to me on one of my HR20-700s. They are sending me another one. Should I cancel it?
> 
> We'll turn on the TV and Disney HD channel shows searching for sat. We turn to Sd and then back to HD and sometimes it comes in. Other times we need to reboot.


While you may be having a problem with your -700, it's not _this_ problem, so don't cancel your replacement. If you should receive a refurb HR20-100, _then_ you might have this problem, but we'll jump off thar bridge when we come to it.


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## blc (Sep 30, 2007)

It's nice to know the Directv gods were listening. Hope they get it fixed with a software update. I know I finally got tired of complaining and just shut and lived with it. It seemed no one at Directv wanted to find the root of the problem, even though we pretty much found it for them. The general resolution given to most people was service calls and replacement receivers--which usually ended up with the same problem. Anyway, if it gets fixed, that is all I care about. Directv has over the years been good about addressing problems if you can convince them there really is a problem. That is the hard part.


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## ironwood (Sep 20, 2007)

I've seen quite a few HR20-100's with bad tuner 2, but it would show problem with signal on tuner 2 all accross the satellites, not just 110.


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## gfrang (Aug 30, 2007)

Trust me it's real and its only on 110 sat,In a lot of cases anyway.My signals are fine on other sats and tuner1 on 110. I know what you are saying thou
i tried swapping lines bbc's it's stil the same.


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## Ron DBS (Oct 31, 2007)

I had what appeared to be this problem with my first HR20-700 immediately after it was installed back in September. I think I had to reboot it every day or two to get rid of the 771s on tuner 2.

DirecTV sent me a refurbished HR20-100 as a replacement. It works much better, but I stll have to reboot it occasionally (once or twice a month?) to get rid of a blank screen problem on every other channel. Not sure this is the same problem because I don't get 771s. Only lost one or two recodings in the last 6 months with the -100 due to this. Although this is below my threshold of pain, I'd like to see the problem fixed once and for all.


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## PicaKing (Oct 8, 2006)

capdood said:


> I found a simple way to replicate the problem -- and did so when the tech was here yesterday.
> 
> First go to ESPN Channel 73 -- the biggest offender for me. Then through the menu selection, go to set up and then to the test signal screen. Without even needing to wait for the screen to fill with readings, select "done." You will be brought back to the set up menu, and will see the miniature TV picture screen (in the upper right hand corner) showing the "771" message. Hitting exit brings you to the full "771" message on Channel 73. I showed the tech how I could then switch channels and go back to 73 where the picture was then viewable.
> 
> ...


I have an HR20-100, have never seen this problem, and tried to create it following the steps you outline, but could not. Whatever it is, it does not effect my Hr20-100


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## capdood (Oct 19, 2007)

PicaKing said:


> I have an HR20-100, have never seen this problem, and tried to create it following the steps you outline, but could not. Whatever it is, it does not effect my Hr20-100


Hold onto that receiver for dear life! You are indeed one of the (many?) lucky ones who do not have this awful Direct TV problem.


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## jzoomer (Sep 22, 2006)

It is good to acknowledge the problem but it would be better to have a fix.

All the threads I have seen regarding 771 errors treat the solution is to reduce the likelihood that this bug will occur by reducing the error rate: new lnbs, new switch, new BBC, new receivers, new cables. I think you would want to do some of those things to reduce breakups in the reception.

The reality is that with this form of transmission, you cannot rule out the tuner getting into the circumstance where it locks up. You can't do anything about rain fade or the solar radiation in line with the satellite.

I haven't tried the unplugging the cable fix but that can be inconvenient. I still think they should have a "RESET Tuner" option in the system menu.


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

I have Two HR20-100s tried and tried many tests. I watch and record MPEG2 HD stations a lot.

I do always run the CE software though.

Never ever had the problem, 

except once 3 months ago on ALL sats and transponders, and I all did to fix that was to unplug the power cord for 10 mins to reset everything.


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## Arative (Jan 8, 2008)

Question, I wondering if my problem is related to this bug. I have an hr20-700 I just noticed this today. I'm recording a show. Watching the history channel, and after about a minute, the screen just freezes, no 771 at all. Switch to my OTA tuner, it works fine, switch back to the history channel, plays for about a minute, then just freezes.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Unfortunately, a word from an installer that DIRECTV is aware of the problem isn't a promise that it's really true. I'm saddened to say that the level of knowledge of the installers varies... a lot.


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## rpfotog (Sep 8, 2004)

capdood said:


> I found a simple way to replicate the problem -- and did so when the tech was here yesterday.
> 
> First go to ESPN Channel 73 -- the biggest offender for me. Then through the menu selection, go to set up and then to the test signal screen. Without even needing to wait for the screen to fill with readings, select "done." You will be brought back to the set up menu, and will see the miniature TV picture screen (in the upper right hand corner) showing the "771" message. Hitting exit brings you to the full "771" message on Channel 73. I showed the tech how I could then switch channels and go back to 73 where the picture was then viewable.


Thanks for the tip! I have the problem and I can replicate it using your technique. When I called DTV earlier tonight, the guy on the phone wanted to send out a tech to check his shoddy installation from 8 months ago. When he informed me that it would cost $80 I asked for retention. I was nice to the lady there and she agreed to waive the fee via a $79 credit to my account.

The tech is coming out on Wednesday so should I show him this thread and repeat the problem for him? Should I ask for an HR21? I don't get any OTA so I don't care about that feature. Just wondering what you all think.

Rob


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## rpfotog (Sep 8, 2004)

By the way, I forgot to ask how ti switch tuners for the demo. Since we don't have dual live buffers I'm not sure which tuner I'm on.

Thanks,

Rob


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

rpfotog said:


> By the way, I forgot to ask how ti switch tuners for the demo. Since we don't have dual live buffers I'm not sure which tuner I'm on.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Rob


The tuners alternate, unless you're recording something. To change from tuner X to tuner Y and wind up on the same channel, but the other tuner: CH A > CH B > CH C > CH A.


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## bearcat250 (Feb 19, 2004)

I am getting ready to make the move to HD. I will need a new dish and two HR20/21's. My question is with this software problem, should I wait till there is a fix?


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## cweave02 (Oct 12, 2007)

rpfotog said:


> When he informed me that it would cost $80 I asked for retention. I was nice to the lady there and she agreed to waive the fee via a $79 credit to my account.
> 
> Rob


What happened to the other dollar? You can't "waive an $80 fee" by charging $80 then crediting $79 - so the service call is costing $1 (plus any interest your card accrues unless you pay off your balance every month.:nono2:


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## cweave02 (Oct 12, 2007)

bearcat250 said:


> I am getting ready to make the move to HD. I will need a new dish and two HR20/21's. My question is with this software problem, should I wait till there is a fix?


Absolutely not! The pleasure you will get from the system far outweighs any minor nuisances you suffer, which will still be less trouble than you already have with Comcrap or some other system.


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## man_rob (Feb 21, 2007)

bearcat250 said:


> I am getting ready to make the move to HD. I will need a new dish and two HR20/21's. My question is with this software problem, should I wait till there is a fix?


Last year, I was hesitant to get the DirecTV DVR because of what I read on this forum, but my HR20 has been excellent. I've never had 771 issue. My signal strengths are excellent. The DVR records everything I schedule. It's been every bit as reliable as my R10 DirecTiVo, that I still have in my bedroom. Before I got my HR20, I had been contemplating a switch to Dish. I am soooooo glad I stayed with DirecTV.


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## jwd45244 (Aug 18, 2006)

The problem you are describing is what I am experiencing with my H20-600 (in a SWM environment)


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## ansky (Oct 11, 2005)

On a few occasions I have had the "Searching for Satellite" message when tuning to Discovery HD on Ch 278 and SNY HD on 625. I never really knew what the cause was but it sounds like it could be related to the issue described above. I was able to fix it by changing the channel back and forth a couple times.


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## fudpucker (Jul 23, 2007)

I'm really glad to see this thread - this has just started occurring on both of my HR20-100s, and I was wondering if somehow something in my installation had gone bad. I had a really bad experience with an installer when I moved here, followed by a really good installer coming in (when I sent the first one home and told DirectTV I was just going to move back to cable) so I don't want to play installer lottery again.

But I would really like some confirmation that this is a software problem DTV is aware of and will fix rather than just HR20-100s hardware degrading in some way.


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## JAYPB (May 8, 2002)

...and they are both -100's..and these are the 2 receivers that I have the 771 message on...haven't seen the message pop up on the single solitary hr21 that I have in the house.

Just hope that there is truly a *fix* out there for this issue......


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## CapeCodder (Mar 19, 2008)

gfrang said:


> My signals tuner 1 96 92 97 tuner 2 80 76 93
> today is a good clear day when it gets cloudy tuner 2 drops like a rock when it rains it goes up sometimes to tuner 1 readings. I never called to complain because i don't want a HR21{need ota) or another 2 year commitment.


Have you checked all the cable connections to tuner 2? My installer left several very (and I mean very) loose. Many were on the multiswitch, especially the one for tuner two, which probably would have fallen off if the other cables nearby weren't holding it in place. All hard to get fingers on, so I figure he just said screw it. I didn't notice the tuner 2 signal problem for a couple of days, so ended up tracking down the connections and tightening them myself. Seeing you are from MA, maybe you got the same team - and the same attitude.


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## bongju (Jun 4, 2006)

Can anybody having this problem verify if it still exists with the latest software release 0x022D?


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## scb2k (Sep 22, 2007)

I have the HR21-700 and I had this stupid 771 Message from Day One...

I had the box installed in September 2007 and right after the new channels got release Late September I would noticed that the 771 message would come on from switching from HD channel to another, the channel would come on and then it would go away..

I had 3 guys come out, they reinstalled the dish, try swaping receivers and same problem, finally the following day another tech came out, he changed the splitter and channels work!! No More 771! Well that was fine for about 2 months and now ever since, I still get an ocassional 771 message at least 2 times a month requiring resetting the receiver to cleared things out..

Earlier this week, I received a call from a D* tech and he said that my receiver sent them data that shows, I was having issues with my HD channels! Very low numbers on the 110.. I explain everything to him.... He did not know what to tell me.. He then offered to replace my receiver! I told him how I did not want the HR21 that I would only want HR20-700 because of my OTA capability.. Anyhow fingers cross that I get HR20-700 if not he he told me to refused shipment...

Oh yes The 0' signals are always on only Tuner 2.. but as soon as you resent all signals on both Tuners are okay...

A new receiver is coming in the mail for me.. 

So it seems like installing the replacement might not do the trick huh...


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

scb2k said:


> Anyhow fingers cross that I get HR21-700 if not he he told me to refused shipment...


What does the HR21-700 have that the other receivers don't?

Are you sure you didn't mean an HR20 versus an HR21???

I'm guessing because you referred to "OA" capability and that you meant "OTA".


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## scb2k (Sep 22, 2007)

harsh said:


> What does the HR21-700 have that the other receivers don't?
> 
> Are you sure you didn't mean an HR20 versus an HR21???
> 
> I'm guessing because you referred to "OA" capability and that you meant "OTA".


Correct! HR20-700


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## SubSlr08 (Dec 4, 2007)

I had this problem only slightly until version 0x22b was downloaded on 4/29. By slightly I mean once or twice a week. Since the 'update' it's happening more and more. . . and my signals are always very high 80's and 90's. It got so bad yesterday I finally did a POMC _(power off - master clear)_ on the unit. Even after that it still got a few more 771 errors until I did yet *ANOTHER* RBR. Since then it's been running fine. 
I'm still inside the 60 day install happiness window and I'm beginning to think I should call and push for a replacement unit. This thing would make a great boat anchor if it only had a shackle point. 
If my SD TIVO and HR10-250 had acted this way I'd have left D* ages ago. I want to add an eSATA to the mix, but I can't trust this thing enough to warrant that step.


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## ironwood (Sep 20, 2007)

scb2k said:


> I have the HR21-700 and I had this stupid 771 Message from Day One...
> 
> I had the box installed in September 2007 and right after the new channels got release Late September I would noticed that the 771 message would come on from switching from HD channel to another, the channel would come on and then it would go away..
> 
> ...


If your problem occurs 2 times a month then you are doing better than 99% of HD DVR owners. I would never call it a "problem". They will send you a refurb that will have more bugs than your current receiver.


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## Sherlocc (Sep 29, 2006)

Some posts here seem to believe that the HR21-700 does not experience this problem. Au contraire.

I have an HR20-700 and an HR21-700. 

I have never seen this problem on the HR20-700, I see it every few days on the HR21-700. Sometimes I would find several(20? 30? 40?) channels unavailable. When I see it now, I just reboot automatically.

The failure is always only on MPEG4 channels. Rebooting always fixes the problem.

I also note that someone mentioned they were happy that DirecTv had "officially recognized" the software problem. This "recognition" came by way of a visiting tech and his supervisor. Hardly "official recognition" of the problem, in my book.


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## rainor (Oct 1, 2006)

Hello all - Try this - it resolved my 771 Bug.

See Posting...

http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1585864&postcount=16

I had the same weird issue with bad recordings and random 771 errors on channels and this fixed the problem perfectly. Very simple fix.


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

Dknow said:


> ...This SFSS problem occurs on the HR20-100 only on the 110 satellite on tuner 2.


D NOT Know, apparently. There are reports of HR20-700s as well as HR21s with this problem. It happened on my HR20-700 when neither tuner had been on 110 all day.


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## tritch (Jan 15, 2008)

bongju said:


> Can anybody having this problem verify if it still exists with the latest software release 0x022D?


Yes, I can confirm that it still exists. It's still occurring on my HR20-100, but not with my HR21-200. I doubt at this point that any future software release is going to fix this issue or they would have done it by now. I suspect it's a hardware related problem (mostly a bad batch of HR20-100's circulating as refurbs now) which simply can't be fixed with any software update.

You have several options......

You can try the 3 foot cable insert between the BBC/DVR or the aluminum foil over the 110 LNB trick......it didn't work for me though.
*or* 
if you want a fix right now, get a HR21 or HR21/AM21 combo.
*or*
just wait a few more months and the issue will simply go away after the HD MPEG2 channels are mirrored or moved off of the 110 bird to the 99/103 location. You can expect this to happen sometime before the release of the new Slim3 dish.


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## jrodfoo (Apr 9, 2007)

rainor said:


> Hello all - Try this - it resolved my 771 Bug.
> 
> See Posting...
> 
> ...


Anybody try this? Did it work? Just was curious.


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

jrodfoo said:


> Anybody try this? Did it work? Just was curious.


The particular problem described in that post is different from the Sat 110 Tuner 2 bug which effects HR20-100's.


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## tzphotos.com (Jul 12, 2006)

I had the problem and solved it by putting in a powered multi-switch. I have not had the problem since installing the Powered Multi-Switch. Now my Caller-ID is off and on since installing the multi-switch. Oh Well you can't win them all.


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

Is that a WB68 or a WB616? I'm pretty sure there have been plenty of folks here with this arcane problem who also had WB68's, but maybe not WB616's......


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## jrodfoo (Apr 9, 2007)

K4SMX said:


> The particular problem described in that post is different from the Sat 110 Tuner 2 bug which effects HR20-100's.


Ok, Thanks! I'm going to try the patch cable trick and see what happens.


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