# Local reception and the 942



## ebeeks

In the past few weeks my local CBS has taken about a 30 point dip in signal strength down to 61. I have a neighbor that has the Tivo HD unit from DirecTV and still gets about 96 signal strength. I have called the local station and they gave some lame excuse about squirrels chewing on cable lines and interfering with the transmission in my neighborhood.

Has anyone experienced a signal loss with their 942? Trying to rule out possible software release that could have caused this. My other local channels were never that strong, but their reception does not seem to be affected.


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## kmcnamara

Where in Texas are you?


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## lakebum431

I have no idea about your location, but sometimes when the leaves come out in the Spring it can mess with OTA signals.


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## LtMunst

lakebum431 said:


> I have no idea about your location, but sometimes when the leaves come out in the Spring it can mess with OTA signals.


Yup, I've found that with the change in seasons I always have to repoint my antenna.


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## ebeeks

I am Wichita Falls, Texas. I spent about two hours on the roof last night working on repointing the antenna and I had it all over the place and the signal is not any better. I ended up changing over to local ABC and getting it zeroed in to pick it up again. The antenna is back where I had it.


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## ebeeks

Update!!! I spoke to the engineer at the local station and he says he has tested all the euipment at the station and can't find anything wrong. They are now launching "a full interference investigation". Whatever that is. Makes me think they are giving me a line. Anyone been through anything like this?


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## agreer

ebeeks said:


> Update!!! I spoke to the engineer at the local station and he says he has tested all the euipment at the station and can't find anything wrong. They are now launching "a full interference investigation". Whatever that is. Makes me think they are giving me a line. Anyone been through anything like this?


Probably not "just a line" as the station pays huge money for the exclusive right to that frequency range inside that DMA, they want ANYONE willing to be able to watch (at least the ADs...) because they need as many eye-balls as possible to make the station worth the cost to opperate.

If some punk is messing arround in that range, or if (unlikely but possible) a HAM opperator has mis-configured something and is bleeding in, they will report it to the FCC and get what they paid for, the exclucivity of that range.


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## Gramps

I live about 15 miles N of Wichita Falls and for the past couple of weeks I've seen the same problem with that same station. For me the NBC and CBS affiliate are nearly side by side and the same distance from me. One evening the CBS HD OTA became unwatchable (alternating between a frozen pixilated image and the yellow message that signal was lost) while NBC was perfect. What is a real puzzle is that I can take the RG9 cable and plug it directly into my HDTV and both channels are sharp and stable. On a scale of 1-100, NBC comes in at 89 (TV shows SNR 27dB AGC 18%); CBS comes in at 96 (SNR 30dB, AGC 16%). Move the same cable to the 942 and the 942 shows NBC's signal strength @ 72. I had tried to rescan the channels and the CBS affiliate is now invisible to the 942. It sure seems to me that the problem is in the 942 somehow, otherwise why do I get such a good signal when I move the same antenna to the TV?


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## sgt940

ebeeks said:


> In the past few weeks my local CBS has taken about a 30 point dip in signal strength down to 61. I have a neighbor that has the Tivo HD unit from DirecTV and still gets about 96 signal strength. I have called the local station and they gave some lame excuse about squirrels chewing on cable lines and interfering with the transmission in my neighborhood.
> 
> Has anyone experienced a signal loss with their 942? Trying to rule out possible software release that could have caused this. My other local channels were never that strong, but their reception does not seem to be affected.


I am in Denton and have a 622 and have the same 30 point drop across all OTA channels.


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## ebeeks

Gramps said:


> I live about 15 miles N of Wichita Falls and for the past couple of weeks I've seen the same problem with that same station. For me the NBC and CBS affiliate are nearly side by side and the same distance from me. One evening the CBS HD OTA became unwatchable (alternating between a frozen pixilated image and the yellow message that signal was lost) while NBC was perfect. What is a real puzzle is that I can take the RG9 cable and plug it directly into my HDTV and both channels are sharp and stable. On a scale of 1-100, NBC comes in at 89 (TV shows SNR 27dB AGC 18%); CBS comes in at 96 (SNR 30dB, AGC 16%). Move the same cable to the 942 and the 942 shows NBC's signal strength @ 72. I had tried to rescan the channels and the CBS affiliate is now invisible to the 942. It sure seems to me that the problem is in the 942 somehow, otherwise why do I get such a good signal when I move the same antenna to the TV?


OK, Seeing now that I have somone close by experiencing the same issue from the same station, I did some further testing with my 811 receiver. I hooked it up in the same room as my 942 and used all the same connections. My CBS OTA HD signal was still hovering between 60 - 63 with nothing, but pixels. However, my NBC OTA just D was at 73 on my 942 and at 49 on my 811. I don't know what's involved with the tuners between OTA HDTV tuners and Dish OTA HD tuners, but there is a difference between an 811 and a 942. I have a friend that has DirecTivo HD box and he gets a solid 96 on CBS OTA HD now.

The station said it was limited to my side of town, but the more evidence I have makes me believe it is Dish Tuners.


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## sgt940

ebeeks said:


> OK, Seeing now that I have somone close by experiencing the same issue from the same station, I did some further testing with my 811 receiver. I hooked it up in the same room as my 942 and used all the same connections. My CBS OTA HD signal was still hovering between 60 - 63 with nothing, but pixels. However, my NBC OTA just D was at 73 on my 942 and at 49 on my 811. I don't know what's involved with the tuners between OTA HDTV tuners and Dish OTA HD tuners, but there is a difference between an 811 and a 942. I have a friend that has DirecTivo HD box and he gets a solid 96 on CBS OTA HD now.
> 
> The station said it was limited to my side of town, but the more evidence I have makes me believe it is Dish Tuners.


I just double checked my stations after the sun came out in Denton, I get 88 on 11, 93 on 8, 78 on 5, and 73 on 4. I have a high gain channel master amp with a fringe channel master antenna on the roof.


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## ebeeks

sgt940 said:


> I just double checked my stations after the sun came out in Denton, I get 88 on 11, 93 on 8, 78 on 5, and 73 on 4. I have a high gain channel master amp with a fringe channel master antenna on the roof.


Can you receive Wichita Falls channels in Denton or do yours come out of Dallas? I am wondering if it could be a combination of some kind of encoding the local WF CBS station does and the decoding by Dish branded receivers. Anyone with a hard core technical breakdown of what could be happening here feel free to jump in. I have yet to call Dish to report this.


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## ebeeks

Update!! I called Dish after discusing this with *gramps*. They were not very helpful. They insist that it is nothing with their receiver. I checked the software update forum and someone was posting that they saw this same thing happen with l283 software update. I checked the release of the last major update and that was l285 on March 15th. About the time I started seeing this issue. Does anybody know how to reset or downgrade the software release? I also, called the local station and they are using a back channel to Dish to see if they can get anywhere. All I know is that I have not been able to watch CSI for weeks and it is really irritating. If anyone has any troubleshooting tips please share.


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## Gramps

Further experimentation continues to point to the 942 as the culprit. Earlier I stated that after the problem surfaced, I get a perfectly good signal when I moved the OTA cable to my HDTV that has a built in HD tuner. Tonight I dug out my Hisense HDTV tuner (Walmart special) that I use in my RV and set it up next to the 942 and connected it to to the same OTA cable; the CBS affilitate comes in at nearly full scale on the on-screen signal strength display, picture perfect. Yet a channel scan with the 942 acts as if this station no longer exists. I wish I could recall with certainty when I first noticed this; I want to say it was about the time that the L2.85 update was applied. I agree with *ebeeks* that it would be a simple matter to prove this if we could downlevel the software. I also made visits to 3 separate DISH dealers in Wichita Falls and none had an HD receiver hooked up, so that didn't prove anything. At least I have an alternate way to watch CSI, just can't record it on the 942 until this gets resolved. For anyone that is interested, I am about 12.5 miles line-of-sight to the CBS affiliate's tower. *ebeeks* is a little over a mile on the other side of that same tower from me.

It doesn't make much sense that we both have a 942 and cannot receive the same channel. Without the troubleshooting he and I have done, it would be easy to point at the local affiliate, but since we can receive it perfectly on anything but a DISH receiver, where else can the problem be?


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## Jon Spackman

Just be patient guys, I hear help is coming soon


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## ebeeks

Jon Spackman said:


> Just be patient guys, I hear help is coming soon


Do tell


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## wingnut1

Why don't you upgrade to the 622?


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## ebeeks

wingnut1 said:


> Why don't you upgrade to the 622?


I'm on the fence. I am waiting for *gramps* to get his and see if he has the problem. If it fixes his problems then I am all over it. I was not really excited about the additional channels that I would get. Also, was waiting for initial deployment issues with 622 to get resolved if there were any.


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## Gramps

wingnut1 said:


> Why don't you upgrade to the 622?


They tell me my 622 "is in the mail", scheduled install date is 5/19 HOWEVER, I really don't expect this to fix the issue. Here's why: *ebeeks* has a 942 and an 811, both fail to receive this one local affiliate. Yesterday I stopped by a local DISH retailer and asked if he had any problems with the OTA locals. His response was that while he had a 942 at home, he didn't use it for the locals and that since HDTV is so new for this area, he had only sold a handful of receivers capable of receiving OTA HD. He did have a 211 that he hooked up to his antenna and ran the channel scan. All the local HD channels showed up, but the channel in question was only displaying a signal strength that bounced between 0 and 61, this alternated with the "lost signal" error panel. I went by the TV station and met with the chief engineer. He told me he has been in contact with a couple of other DISH subscribers complaining about this same problem. He then called his contact at DISH and we discussed the issue at some length on a conf call. The only things we can say for sure is that this one station is the only one we receive in this area that transmits in 1080i native, and the problem appeared on different DISH branded receivers after the sw updates in March. Since this doesn't seem to be an issue elsewhere as no one else is reporting the problem, the logical conclusion is there is some conflict with the local affiliate's signal/encoding and the DISH software. Hopefully they will work together to find a solution shortly now that it has been formally brought to DISH's attention. Since it worked before the sw update, that seems to be a good place to start looking.


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## ebeeks

The problem may not be with the 942 at all. It is very possible that Dish may tell the local station that there is something wrong with the way they encode their signal.

I find it hard to believe that the issue is with the 942 since this is the only area of the country that is reporting a problem. Wichita Falls is ranked 144 out of the 210 DMA's in the country. Not exactly on the cutting edge.


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## Gramps

Update on my end: 942 was updated to L2.86, last night I scanned local channels, but local CBS affiliate still does not exist. 622 came in today. I set it up, software level is L3.56. Scanned local channels, same results. Fortunately, I can still watch CSI in HD since my TV has a tuner built in. For someone without a TV tuner, the 622 is even more limiting since it does not have the ability to receive NTSC OTA. Thus no reception of CBS here at all.


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## ebeeks

I spoke with the local station engineer and he is forwarding all our information to Dish to get this resolved. The season is almost over and still no HD.


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## Gramps

Of the 4 digital affiliates we can receive off air, the one in question happens to have the strongest signal per the info provided by the ATSC tuner built into my TV. The station engineer loaned me several attenuators to try on the antenna cable to see if too much signal was the problem. It was not.

I called DISH today and spoke with a CSR who initially "could not help" me. *Her position was that since the OTA stations were free, they were not DISH's responsibility. I reminded her that the OTA was a selling feature of the 942; particularly since on the Charlie Chat they offer this as a solution for folks who have an HDTV without a tuner.* I push this and stated that as a long time DISH customer I wasn't happy with that response after spending $$$ to get this receiver. She then connected me to someone who appeared to be her supervisor and after discussing the problem with him, he put her back on the line to collect some info about my receiver and it is to be forwarded to engineering with no promise of any results.


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## RocketNJ

Here's a thought.

Dish provides CBS-East HD on the satellite. Is it possible this is causing the conflict? Maybe that is why the OTA HD cannot display guide info?

Also here in NYC market my CBS shows in lower case while the other OTA HD channels show upper case.

Just a thought


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## William Millar

Alright guys I live in Iowa Park, 13 miles North of Wichita Falls. I have a 411 receiver and a 6000 receiver, and I do not get channel 6 either. This problem started in the middle of March and I know 2 other people in Iowa Park which have the same problem. It's hard to believe it's the receiver as the 6000 has had no updates in many months and it does not receive the station any longer.

If you want to receive channel 6, unplug your outside antennae and take a piece of coax and just plug in the copper wire only to the back of your receiver then you will receive it, but you will not be able to receive any other of the stations. I feel since my 6000 has the problem I beleive it's either with the station or somebody has but a cellular phone tower in wichita falls which is interferring with the signal because I am using a channel master 4248 antennae and I can pick up NBC and CBS out of Dallas every evening, I also pick up Sherman, Tx, CBS. All these stations are broadcasting in 1080I so I feel that Channel 6 has a problem and they just can't pin point it, so try what I said with the coax and see if it works for you. I reported this problem in March on the AVS Wichita Falls forum, I am glad to hear that people are now saying something about it.



Bill


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## Gramps

RocketNJ said:


> Here's a thought.
> 
> Dish provides CBS-East HD on the satellite. Is it possible this is causing the conflict? Maybe that is why the OTA HD cannot display guide info?
> 
> Also here in NYC market my CBS shows in lower case while the other OTA HD channels show upper case.
> 
> Just a thought


Our problem here isn't the program guide, we just don't get the channel at all.


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## Gramps

William Millar said:


> Alright guys I live in Iowa Park, 13 miles North of Wichita Falls. I have a 411 receiver and a 6000 receiver, and I do not get channel 6 either. This problem started in the middle of March and I know 2 other people in Iowa Park which have the same problem. It's hard to believe it's the receiver as the 6000 has had no updates in many months and it does not receive the station any longer.
> 
> ...
> 
> Bill


If you are certain there were no updates to the sw on your receiver, then this does shed another light on the problem. Those of us who have been discusing this all noted the problem started in mid-March and we did have an update at that time. I was not initially aware of the update and cannot be certain this happened the first time I turned the receiver on after the update, so it may just be coincidence. In addition, since there seems to be a lack of reports about this issue outside of Wichita Falls, it seems this may be indeed a local issue. The only thing reason I have trouble believing this is a station issue or local interference is because when I connect the same antenna & cable to the ATSC tuner in my TV, that channel is fine. The same is true when I brought in the TV from my RV and connected the Hisense tuner I bought at Walmart to my house antenna. From my experience, it is only my 942 and 622 that that cannot get this station. We also know that the model 211 and 811 receivers don't receive Channel 6-1. An acquaintance with a DirectTivo HD receiver also gets Channel 6-1 without problem. With the little info we have so far, it appears to be some obscure configuration or coding issue between Channel 6 and DISH's software. Since this is only affecting DISH customers, the Chief Engineer at Channel 6 doesn't have much to explore on his end. *My recommendation is to call DISH to report the problem and don't take no for an answer. Insist that they open a ticket and forward it to engineering. Only after they get a number of separate reports will it move to the front burner and get some attention. At that time they may be able to assist Channel 6 in discovering the cause of the problem.*


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## William Millar

Gramps,
Let me clarify my post, my 6000 receives channel 6.1, with a reading of 85-90, but the bar is red not locked. My 411 receives 6.1 with a reading of 62-64, it locks the channel but the picture goes on and off. 

I live in Iowa Park and my antennae is pointed 126 degrees (dead on) to the station/tower. I can get the station by pointing my antennae to 270 degrees and locking in, but then I do not get channel 3 or 18. If I'm on 270 degrees looking at the station with a reading/output of 62 I can turn my antennae back to the 126 degree location as my antennae is turning my signal will start going up to the high 90's for channel 6, and it will stay on the station until I switch channels and it will be gone again. I also know that the Allred Prison unit here in Iowa Park has frequency blockers, maybe somehow is causing the problem. Tony at Channel 6 said most of the problem seems to be centered in the Iowa Park/ Burkburnett area, also when Dish does an update on the receievers I do not beleive it updates over the air digital tuner as it is a separate unit. I'll be on later to check on the posts...thanks for your input. By the way I did read somewhere that Dish did change 1080I output recently, but I think this is if they are broadcasting local HD.



Bill


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## ebeeks

William Millar said:


> Alright guys I live in Iowa Park, 13 miles North of Wichita Falls. I have a 411 receiver and a 6000 receiver, and I do not get channel 6 either. This problem started in the middle of March and I know 2 other people in Iowa Park which have the same problem. It's hard to believe it's the receiver as the 6000 has had no updates in many months and it does not receive the station any longer.
> 
> Bill


I tried your workaround and it did not work for me. Have you called KAUZ to report the issue? If you haven't, give them a call and ask for Tony Guess. He is the chief engineer. He is compiling a list of people in the area that has the issue. So far everyone that has reported the issue has a Dish brand receiver.

However, since this is only happening in our area it very well could be the station. It just doesn't explain why every other receiver I have tried is not affected. I am not an engineer, but it almost sounds like Dish closed a hole in their software that KAUZ was using. Similar to Windows Security patches.

Either way, I expect Dish and KAUZ to work together to get this resolved. One more week til CSI season is done.


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## William Millar

ebeeks said:


> I tried your workaround and it did not work for me. Have you called KAUZ to report the issue? If you haven't, give them a call and ask for Tony Guess. He is the chief engineer. He is compiling a list of people in the area that has the issue. So far everyone that has reported the issue has a Dish brand receiver.
> 
> However, since this is only happening in our area it very well could be the station. It just doesn't explain why every other receiver I have tried is not affected.  I am not an engineer, but it almost sounds like Dish closed a hole in their software that KAUZ was using. Similar to Windows Security patches.
> 
> Either way, I expect Dish and KAUZ to work together to get this resolved. One more week til CSI season is done.


Try the center lead only off the antennae, and see if that does not make the station come on for you, do not screw the coax onto the receiver.

Bill


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## ebeeks

William Millar said:


> Try the center leaf only and see if that does not make the station come on for you, do not screw the coax onto the receiver.
> 
> Bill


That's what I did. How long is the cable you are using? Mine is about 3ft.


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## William Millar

Take your UHF remote antennae off the back of your receiver, and put it where your roooftop antennae is now, see if this will work. Your antennae should be pointing at channel 3 if you want to pick up the channel 6 digital. If you have it peeked out at 7.1 you will probably miss channel 6 as channel 3 and 6 antennae on Seymour Hwy and 7 and 18 are down near Randlett, there is almost 120 degree difference in location, if you need some help, just let me know I live in Iowa Park and would be glad to help you. I have worked on C-Band and off-air antennaes for many years, I do not do this for a living.




Bill


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## ebeeks

William Millar said:


> Take your UHF remote antennae off the back of your receiver, and put it where your roooftop antennae is now, see if this will work. Your antennae should be pointing at channel 3 if you want to pick up the channel 6 digital. If you have it peeked out at 7.1 you will probably miss channel 6 as channel 3 and 6 antennae on Seymour Hwy and 7 and 18 are down near Randlett, there is almost 120 degree difference in location, if you need some help, just let me know I live in Iowa Park and would be glad to help you. I have worked on C-Band and off-air antennaes for many years, I do not do this for a living.
> 
> Bill


Still no go. My signal was 0 when I did that. I hooked up my rooftop and it gave me 65 for a signal strength.


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## William Millar

I'm sorry it didn't work for you. It will be 2 months since I first started having the problems. I first reported it to the station on March 28, 2006, you would think they would have it fixed by now. The people down in DFW area are having the same problem with channel 8 digital, they either get it or they don't, and the station there apparently has done nothing about the problem, but now Dish has hooked them up over the air, and now thier stations are broadcast on the satellite.


Bill


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## ebeeks

William Millar said:


> I'm sorry it didn't work for you. It will be 2 months since I first started having the problems. I first reported it to the station on March 28, 2006, you would think they would have it fixed by now. The people down in DFW area are having the same problem with channel 8 digital, they either get it or they don't, and the station there apparently has done nothing about the problem, but now Dish has hooked them up over the air, and now thier stations are broadcast on the satellite.
> 
> Bill


I am about to throw in the towel here and by an HDTV tuner card for my computer. Don't know any other way to watch and record HD since Dish does not support their hardware. I don't know what else to do. The station says Dish, Dish says the station. The only group left to complain to is the FCC. This sounds like a conspiracy. "Can't get your local channels anymore? Then subscribe to them from us!"


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## ebeeks

Update!!!!

I made my weekly call to the station to see of there was any progress. Tony Guess, the chief engineer states that there is an issue with the alogorthim that decodes native 1080i and the Dish software. Also stated that the Dish development is working on the problem, but does not look like they are taking it too serious. He also told me that KERA, the Dallas PBS station is reporting the same issues as we are here. There isn't much we can do, but wait. Tony also stated that if a resolution wasn't reached in the near term the lawyers would have to get involved.


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## ebeeks

Since we have not been able to resolve the issues on this forum, with the local station or Dish, I decided to take it to the next level. I issued a complaint at the FCC website http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/complaints.html I encourage each of you who have this issue to do the same. Everybody seems to think this is the other guys problem to fix and we are left in the lurch.


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## Gramps

William Millar said:


> Try the center lead only off the antennae, and see if that does not make the station come on for you, do not screw the coax onto the receiver. Bill


I'm about at the end of the rope. I tried this, but get nothing. I'm in Burk so I'm about the same distance from Ch6 as you. The CE at Ch6 loaned me some attenuators to try, and they didn't help either.


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## Gramps

My 942 is in a box, UPS label and all... The 622 is installed and guess what? The new receiver has the identical problem as the 942. Cannot get the local CBS affiliate HD OTA.

I was back on the phone with DISH again tonight. I think they sent me to the "back office" this time. The person I spoke with did acknowledge there is a problem ticket open with reception issues for this station, but it has been open since the 18th of March! I tried to get her to escalate the issue, but she could or would not. I then sent what I consider to be a tactful email to customer service. I must agree with *ebeeks, we're stuck in the middle and I know DISH isn't going to give me my money back. If I don't see some progress soon, I'll send a registered letter to Mr. Ergen. Should that fail, what other choice is there but to file a complaint with the BBB and/or the FCC? All we're asking is for DISH and the TV station to get together and figure out what went wrong 2 months ago and implement a solution.

There are two related shortfalls with the 622: It does not have an NTSC tuner like the 942 did. For someone with an "HD Ready" TV using a 622 as their tuner for OTA programming, they will not be able to get CBS in this market unless they subscribe to the satellite locals. The 2nd half of this really surprised me. The video produced by the satellite locals (digital?) is inferior to what I was getting with the NTSC tuner in the 942 and my rooftop antenna (analog!).  On the plus side, the additional HD satellite channels available on the 622 produce astounding video. I assume most of this programming was HD from the start, no interpolation or upconverting.*


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## LtMunst

Gramps said:


> Should that fail, what other choice is there but to file a complaint with the BBB and/or the FCC?


While I understand your frustration, I do not see where getting the FCC involved would help. Dish is under no obligation whatsoever to provide OTA reception. It is an added convenience that works well for the vast majority of us.

If someone builds a website that works on Mozilla (Firefox) but somehow will not display properly on Internet Explorer, is it Microsoft's problem the code was written incorrectly? No. Same with this station. It is clearly a problem with their coding that they need to fix, not Dish.


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## ebeeks

LtMunst said:


> While I understand your frustration, I do not see where getting the FCC involved would help. Dish is under no obligation whatsoever to provide OTA reception. It is an added convenience that works well for the vast majority of us.
> 
> If someone builds a website that works on Mozilla (Firefox) but somehow will not display properly on Internet Explorer, is it Microsoft's problem the code was written incorrectly? No. Same with this station. It is clearly a problem with their coding that they need to fix, not Dish.


The problem is that it worked prior to the update Dish downloaded in March. The OTA receiver was a selling point for buying the receiver. Don't think for a minute you didn't pay for it. Plus it doesn't work unless you subscribe to Dish programming.

The reason I filed a complaint with the FCC was that neither party is very interested in repairing the problem. The only way I can receive CBSHD is to buy additional hardware when I should not have to.

This is a difficult situation to troubleshoot. Every other branded HDtuner on the market works fine with the local broadcast, only Dish branded receivers are affected. This makes one beleive the problem lies with Dish. At one point this was the only station affected. However, through my investigations I have found that KERA out of Dallas is experiencing the same issue and some stations in Denver as well.


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## Gramps

LtMunst said:


> ...Dish is under no obligation whatsoever to provide OTA reception...


My comment re: the FCC was in response to *ebeeks* earlier post; personally I feel that the BBB is the next course should other routes to DISH fail to produce a resolution.

As I see it, the problem is that when DISH elected to include an ATSC tuner into their satellite receiver and *advertised it as a solution to customers with HD Ready sets*, so that *the customer would not require the purchase of a separate tuner*, they entered into an agreement, if not an implied contract. In addition, to get the EPG for the OTA channels, DISH requires a separate subscription to the satellite locals. I don't understand why someone might feel I'm not paying DISH so that I can receive the local HD channels. If we were in a fringe area, it could be argued that DISH cannot guarantee reception. I can assure you, this is not the case here.

Had the 942 I purchased directly from DISH not delivered on the OTA when it was installed, I could have returned it, skipped the additional monthly fee for the EPG, got a refund and been on my way. But months later, it appears that when software updates were downloaded, it unintentionally broke something that was working, something that we were and still are paying for. There are sometimes unintended consequences with any change. Some at DISH have admitted this problem has been documented, and that it has existed for over 2 months, but cannot say if, or when it will ever get fixed.



LtMunst said:


> ...It is clearly a problem with their coding that they need to fix, not Dish...


 It is absolute fact that a Sony TV with a built-in ATSC tuner and an inexpensive Hisense ATSC set-top tuner both receive this station off the same antenna in my attic with excellent signal strength. I have both a 942 and now a 622, and neither will synchronize with this one channel at all. It is hard for me to come to the conclusion that this is not DISH's problem. I will agree that since we are not seeing others on the forum reporting the same problem in different markets, it is possibly some incompatibility in the data stream from the station that does not affect other brands of tuners.

All we are asking is for the engineers at DISH to get on a conference call with the local CBS affiliate to analyze what is wrong and fix it so that it works as it did before the mid-March update.


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## ebeeks

Downloaded L287 and the problem still exists. I also called Dish again this week and they filed another "special report" Still waiting for a resolution.


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## William Millar

Try this, switch your lead from your off air antenna in, to the antenna output, and see if you do not get channel 6. Let me know!!



Bill


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## ebeeks

William Millar said:


> Try this, switch your lead from your off air antenna in, to the antenna output, and see if you do not get channel 6. Let me know!!
> 
> Bill


No change. Also, my other local channels disappeared when I tried it.


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## SaltiDawg

LtMunst said:


> While I understand your frustration, I do not see where getting the FCC involved would help. Dish is under no obligation whatsoever to provide OTA reception. It is an added convenience that works well for the vast majority of us.
> ...


You don't think that the FCC has standing in the design, operation, and ATSC implementation with TV tuners?

Wait 'til FOX starts selling low-cost STB's that coincidentally don't receive ABC. :lol:


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## LtMunst

SaltiDawg said:


> You don't think that the FCC has standing in the design, operation, and ATSC implementation with TV tuners?


You really think the FCC gives a rat's behind whether on not the OTA tuner in Dish's SATELLITE receiver box is any good? Don't hold your breadth waiting for the government to declare Dish in violation of FCC regs because it's tuner is not the best.


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## SaltiDawg

LtMunst said:


> You really think the FCC gives a rat's behind whether on not the OTA tuner in Dish's SATELLITE receiver box is any good? Don't hold your breadth waiting for the government to declare Dish in violation of FCC regs because it's tuner is not the best.


So, given one is dissatisfied with performance of the tuner for *one* OTA station, who would *you* suggest be contacted.

Oh, Joisey boy, you didn't answer my question.


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## LtMunst

SaltiDawg said:


> So, given one is dissatisfied with performance of the tuner for *one* OTA station, who would *you* suggest be contacted.
> 
> Oh, Joisey boy, you didn't answer my question.


I would suggest continuing to bug the station, as it is more than likely a coding problem. If that fails, then by all means complain to the FCC....about the station.

BTW....here in Joisey, all of our OTA stations work perfectly with the 942. I can pick up every station at 35 miles with a little RadioShack settop antenna. That's why I take complaints about crappy 942 tuners with a grain of salt.


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## LtMunst

SaltiDawg said:


> You don't think that the FCC has standing in the design, operation, and ATSC implementation with TV tuners?


The FCC is involved in setting the standards for ATSC broadcast signals. Regarding end-user hardware...the FCC's regs are limited to the usual standards of acceptable emissions and the need to accept certain interference signals. There is no Qualitative mandate. Some radios receive signals great....some suck. Not an FCC issue.

Now your example of a tuner that "coincidentally" does not accept a certain network's signals is a different story.


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## ebeeks

For those of you have been saying the FCC has no jurisdiction here, you are correct. I heard back on my complaint yesterday and they do not concern themselves with regualting the manufacture of Sattelite hardware or other STB. However, they did say that the FTC would handle cases like this.

I don't think I want to take it any further. It will either eventually work itself out or I will find other shows to watch. After all my investigation I am leaning more to the way the station encodes their signal vs. the way Dish decodes it. So long CBS


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## Gramps

Since I traded in my 942 for a 622 and this problem persisted with the newer model, I had hopes that DISH and the local affiliate would work together to find a resolution. If there is something going on in the background, they aren't sharing it with us. I've been watching this forum and looking for other forums for other individuals seeing this problem. The absence of other DISH subscribers in other cities having OTA HD issues like this seems to put the focus back on our local CBS affiliate. For now the reality seems to be that Wichita Falls is a smaller market, OTA HD is very small slice of the pie here and since is is only DISH customers here who see the problem, there is no pressure on the affiliate to take any action for a handful of viewers.


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## ebeeks

Gramps said:


> Since I traded in my 942 for a 622 and this problem persisted with the newer model, I had hopes that DISH and the local affiliate would work together to find a resolution. If there is something going on in the background, they aren't sharing it with us. I've been watching this forum and looking for other forums for other individuals seeing this problem. The absence of other DISH subscribers in other cities having OTA HD issues like this seems to put the focus back on our local CBS affiliate. For now the reality seems to be that Wichita Falls is a smaller market, OTA HD is very small slice of the pie here and since is is only DISH customers here who see the problem, there is no pressure on the affiliate to take any action for a handful of viewers.


We are the minority.


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## William Millar

Well I think I will send a letter to Kyle Williams the station manager tomorrow. I have a feeling he probably doesn't know whats going on. 

I received an e-mail from AVS forum today, channel 7-ABC is going full power starting Friday night on thier channel 11 digital. I also talked to a technician in Dallas last week, he said either the settings are wrong at the station or another station is overpowering thier signal.


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## ebeeks

William Millar said:


> Well I think I will send a letter to Kyle Williams the station manager tomorrow. I have a feeling he probably doesn't know whats going on.
> 
> I received an e-mail from AVS forum today, channel 7-ABC is going full power starting Friday night on thier channel 11 digital. I also talked to a technician in Dallas last week, he said either the settings are wrong at the station or another station is overpowering thier signal.


Do you have a link about ABC?


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## William Millar

ebeeks Try CBS and see if is working.


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## ebeeks

William Millar said:


> ebeeks Try CBS and see if is working.


Still nothing only 68 signal strength. Did something change?


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## William Millar

I cannot beleive it, but for the first time since March 15, I now can receive KAUZ CBS 6.1 in the Wichita Falls, Tx area. I hope this has fixed the problem with the 942, and 211, 411 and 622 as we all have been having a lot of problems.


Bill


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## ebeeks

William Millar said:


> I cannot beleive it, but for the first time since March 15, I now can receive KAUZ CBS 6.1 in the Wichita Falls, Tx area. I hope this has fixed the problem with the 942, and 211, 411 and 622 as we all have been having a lot of problems.
> 
> Bill


Did you do anything different?


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## William Millar

I didn't do anyhting different. Your welcome to try my 211 on your system if you like. You can e-mail me privately if you would like to do that.

[email protected]


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## ebeeks

William Millar said:


> I didn't do anyhting different. Your welcome to try my 211 on your system if you like. You can e-mail me privately if you would like to do that.
> 
> [email protected]


Ok, I rescanned channels last night and it came back. The signal strength is still 68, but now the signal is watchable. However, none of the material was in HD. It was just the digital transmission. Not back to where we were, but it is progress. Knowing that Dish has not donw anything to their receivers I now know it is defeintely an issue with the local station. I guess its time to upgrade to the 622.


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## Gramps

Having given up on Channel 6-1, I accidentally tuned it in this afternoon and it's back! As ebeeks noted, it's not HD, just a digital program, at least programming that is on this afternoon. Color seems to be heavy on red, and signal strength as the 622 sees it is 81 in Burkburnett. Even if they took a step backwards, it's progress! I'm anxious to see what happens this evening when they typically carry the HD material.


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## William Millar

Gramps one reason you may be getting it is because thier only broadcasting at 60% power right now due to equipment failure, when thier at full power they may be overloading our receivers. They are broadcasting in HD-TV when there is a program available. The only problem I see happening now is that they are broadcasting an HD program and when they go to a commercial and they forget to turn the HD back on,and you have to wait for another commercial and then they may remember. Also they are not broadcasting in wide screen unless it's a HD program.



Bill


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## Gramps

William Millar said:


> Gramps one reason you may be getting it is because thier only broadcasting at 60% power right now due to equipment failure


When Cold Case came on last night, it was in HD full screen. Noticed some minor pixelation, but otherwise programming appeared normal. The colors appeared normal also, so it may have been the network feed they were broadcasting earlier in the day that had the red cast. If they are not a full power now and go back to it when the repairs have been made, it might be more than simply overloading as the CE at the station had loaned me a number of attenuators to try inline with my antenna. They only served to kill the reception of the other stations as expected but with no change for Channel 6.


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## ebeeks

I watched about 15 minuites of without a trace and I noticed the same pixellation and a few frame dropouts. Signal Strength is up to 81 now.


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## bcnvc

I live 60 miles west of St. Louis with a 30' mast and a booster the reception is very good but at such a low signal I lost the picture.

Does the Release Notes affect the local HD reception? 
The reason I ask is for at least a 2 weeks or more the signal strength has dropped and the picture loses the signal no picture. I was at 85-95% at least on NBC now I am at 65-68% , CBS was at 70-80% now at 95%, FOX is at a constant (this did not change) 95%, KPLR is at (this did not change)70%, ABC is at (this did not change)75%. I hope this is enough info.

Bill


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## SaltiDawg

bcnvc said:


> I live 60 miles west of St. Louis with a 30' mast and a booster the reception is very good but at such a low signal I lost the picture.
> 
> Does the Release Notes affect the local HD reception?
> The reason I ask is for at least a 2 weeks or more the signal strength has dropped and the picture loses the signal no picture. ...


Bill,

I realize it is not the *start* of the growing season, but any chance the reduced reception is due to tree/leaf growth?


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## ebeeks

bcnvc said:


> I live 60 miles west of St. Louis with a 30' mast and a booster the reception is very good but at such a low signal I lost the picture.
> 
> Does the Release Notes affect the local HD reception?
> The reason I ask is for at least a 2 weeks or more the signal strength has dropped and the picture loses the signal no picture. I was at 85-95% at least on NBC now I am at 65-68% , CBS was at 70-80% now at 95%, FOX is at a constant (this did not change) 95%, KPLR is at (this did not change)70%, ABC is at (this did not change)75%. I hope this is enough info.
> 
> Bill


According to Dish the software upgrades do not affect the OTA tuners. After careful trouble shooting our earlier thoughts about this being a Dish caused problem were incorrect. The problem happened for us right when Dish downloaded an update and casued us to be lieve that Dish caused the issue. However, the signal came back and Dish did nothing. It was only related to one station in town and all the other stations were operating as usual.


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## bcnvc

SaltiDawg said:


> Bill,
> 
> I realize it is not the *start* of the growing season, but any chance the reduced reception is due to tree/leaf growth?


No the trees were in full growth while this happened.
Bill


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## Kenpo Addict

Howdy, 

I have a 942 and after reading most of the problems ya’ll seem to be having it sounds very familiar. I have never since day 1 been able to pick up HD Fox 4 on my system. I get 5, 8, 11, 21, and 33 all in HD with my antenna (Ghost killer) at around 70 to 80 signal. I live about 26 miles SE of Dallas in Forney TX now if I remove the antenna and just plug in rabbit ears I get Fox in HD but nothing else. Is this a problem Dish has with the receiver? I also have a standard two tuner box (I think the 311) that every time I change the channel I have to run the check switch then it works fine again until I change the channel. I am working with DN to get that fixed.


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## ebeeks

Kenpo Addict said:


> Howdy,
> 
> I have a 942 and after reading most of the problems ya'll seem to be having it sounds very familiar. I have never since day 1 been able to pick up HD Fox 4 on my system. I get 5, 8, 11, 21, and 33 all in HD with my antenna (Ghost killer) at around 70 to 80 signal. I live about 26 miles SE of Dallas in Forney TX now if I remove the antenna and just plug in rabbit ears I get Fox in HD but nothing else. Is this a problem Dish has with the receiver? I also have a standard two tuner box (I think the 311) that every time I change the channel I have to run the check switch then it works fine again until I change the channel. I am working with DN to get that fixed.


Have you been able to tune in the Fox channel on another tuner with the same antenna? We knew we had a problem when we could get it on other tuners in the same location with the same antenna. It had something to do with 1080i encoding from the station.

Also, is your antenna directional? It could be that your stations are not all transmitting from the same direction and the non-directional rabbit ears can pick it up.


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