# Dish loses 10K net subscribers in 2Q 2012



## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

From http://www.chicagotribune.com/busin...n-the-second-quarter-20120719,0,3988821.story



> Dish Network Corp., the No. 2 satellite provider in the United States, said on Thursday it lost 10,000 net subscribers in the three months ended June 30.
> 
> The company said in a regulatory filing it ended the second quarter with 14.061 million subscribers. Dish's average churn rate jumped to 1.60 percent, compared with 1.35 percent in the first quarter of this year.


Wonder why they published these numbers now vs. when they release the 2Q earnings report?


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## RasputinAXP (Jan 23, 2008)

because it means that Dish hasn't lost any real money from the loss of AMC.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

RasputinAXP said:


> because it means that Dish hasn't lost any real money from the loss of AMC.


That's good since Dish didn't drop AMC until the start of the 3rd quarter.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

RAD said:


> Wonder why they published these numbers now vs. when they release the 2Q earnings report?


This is the second set of numbers I've seen today. The other number was around 655,000 to the good (waaay too good to be true).

http://www.streetinsider.com/Corpor...s+in+Q2;+Avg.+Churn+Rate+at+1.6%/7591022.html

The interesting part of this is that the total subscriber number listed in the Street Insider article reflects a net loss of 10,000 subscribers versus the Q1 numbers (14,071,000 down to 14,061,000) which is in line with what the Tribune numbers indicate.

I too wonder who is leaking this information in advance of the August 7 conference call.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

RAD said:


> That's good since Dish didn't drop AMC until the start of the 3rd quarter.


DISH spent most of the 2nd quarter telling customers that they were dropping AMC (and three other channels). DISH also pulled promoting AMC as part of their programming packages. While three of the four channels were technically carried until the end of the contract they were buried in a high channel number graveyard.

Last year DISH lost 135k net subscribers (572k gross adds) in the 2nd quarter. After a 104k net add first quarter a negative net add quarter isn't the best news, but at least they are not digging the hole they were in last year.



harsh said:


> This is the second set of numbers I've seen today. The other number was around 655,000 to the good (waaay too good to be true).


Not really ... Gross adds are generally a high number. The worst quarter for gross adds in the past six years was 2Q2011 with 572k gross adds. Otherwise DISH has run 653k to 958k in gross adds each quarter since 1Q2006.


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## sliderbob (Aug 10, 2007)

I'd like to know how many left DirecTV over this Viacom dispute-where DirecTV had to take off 17 popular channels.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

I expected higher sub numbers due to the Hopper.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

sliderbob said:


> I'd like to know how many left DirecTV over this Viacom dispute-where DirecTV had to take off 17 popular channels.


You'll have to wait for quarter 3 results.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

sigma1914 said:


> I expected higher sub numbers due to the Hopper.


Dish probably did add a bunch of new customers due to Hopper... but then lost customers for other reasons. I'm not sure if we would see a breakdown of how many of the gross additions got Hopper/Joey installs.


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## DodgerKing (Apr 28, 2008)

harsh said:


> This is the second set of numbers I've seen today. The other number was around 655,000 to the good (waaay too good to be true).
> 
> http://www.streetinsider.com/Corpor...s+in+Q2;+Avg.+Churn+Rate+at+1.6%/7591022.html
> 
> ...


That 655,000 gain report was originally worded incorrectly. The report said 655k net gain when they really meant gross gain. In that same report they also stated they have a net loss of 10,000. Every report is now stating the same thing.

Of course they could have all just got the information for the same source and that one source could be wrong?


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## DodgerKing (Apr 28, 2008)

sliderbob said:


> I'd like to know how many left DirecTV over this Viacom dispute-where DirecTV had to take off 17 popular channels.


Of the popular channels it may only be two. But those are two very big ones.

Not all 17 are popular. In fact, most of those 17 are some of the lowest rated cable channels.


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## MikeW (May 16, 2002)

DodgerKing said:


> Of the popular channels it may only be two. But those are two very big ones.
> 
> Not all 17 are popular. In fact, most of those 17 are some of the lowest rated cable channels.


Yip. Not too many people clamoring to get their VH1 Classic back.


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## DodgerKing (Apr 28, 2008)

MikeW said:


> Yip. Not too many people clamoring to get their VH1 Classic back.


Ironically, I am.

That and Spike are the only channels I watch in that suit. I watch VH1 Classic for "That Metal Show" and Spike for the Powerblock series.

With that said, those are two of the lowest rated channels on cable, particularly VH1 Classic.


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

MikeW said:


> Yip. Not too many people clamoring to get their VH1 Classic back.


That's one of the channels I watch fairly often. Classic Albums, Classic In Concert, Behind the Music Remastered, lots of concerts and movies like Woodstock and It Might Get Loud.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

A reminder ... there is a thread to discuss DirecTV vs Viacom and this one isn't it.


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## Wire Nut (Apr 6, 2012)

My guess is that many Dish subscribers were frustrated with the upfront charges upgrading to a Hopper, so they canceled and created a new account through a spouse or family member. I agree that waiting for 3rd quarter numbers will better reflect the status of the company, especially when AMC asks a reasonable price.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

RAD said:


> From http://www.chicagotribune.com/busin...n-the-second-quarter-20120719,0,3988821.story
> 
> Wonder why they published these numbers now vs. when they release the 2Q earnings report?





harsh said:


> I too wonder who is leaking this information in advance of the August 7 conference call.


The 8-K filing for the DISH DBS Corporation debt says:


> The DISH ® branded pay-TV service added approximately 665,000 gross new subscribers and lost approximately 10,000 net subscribers during the three months ended June 30, 2012. Our average monthly subscriber churn rate for the three months ended June 30, 2012 was approximately 1.60%. As of June 30, 2012, we had approximately 14.061 million subscribers in the United States.


This is advance information on the second quarter results which we will not see until August. I would suspect that the second quarter results may not have a profit growth similar to the first quarter because of the investment in the Hopper.

The churn rate is up. It will be very difficult to sort out the impacts of the Hopper, the dropping of the AMC family of channels, and the continuing economic doldrums which still include home foreclosures.

Regarding why the _Tribune_ published these numbers absent any quarterly statement context, The Tribune Company's 18 newspapers such as the _Chicago Tribune_ and the _LA Times_ are part of a large media company that owns local broadcast stations and cable channels, all of which are constantly seeking increases in retransmission fees. The Tribune Company is in financial trouble and the newspaper staffs are feeling the crunch. They're are likely to be looking for you to pay in your basic package $25 a month for WGN, not helping you to get WGN and other cable channels a la carte.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

phrelin said:


> Regarding why the _Tribune_ published these numbers absent any quarterly statement context, The Tribune Company's 18 newspapers such as the _Chicago Tribune_ and the _LA Times_ are part of a large media company that owns local broadcast stations and cable channels, all of which are constantly seeking increases in retransmission fees. The Tribune Company is in financial trouble and the newspaper staffs are feeling the crunch. They're are likely to be looking for you to pay in your basic package $25 a month for WGN, not helping you to get WGN and other cable channels a la carte.


BTW, it wasn't just the Tribune that published this, 
http://www.streetinsider.com/Corpor...s+in+Q2;+Avg.+Churn+Rate+at+1.6%/7591022.html
http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/07/19/dishnetwork-idINL2E8IJE0120120719
http://www.fiercecable.com/story/dish-network-loses-10k-subscribers-q2-2012/2012-07-20


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Yeah ... this is soft wire service news. Pre-written stories that require no thought. Sometimes they get rewritten with a local angle but more often they are just regurgitated.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

I was actually referring more about the AMC emphasis the Tribune put on the selected four paragraphs of the Reuters story, with the first two posted above followed by:


> On June 30, Dish dropped New York-based AMC Networks after the companies' contract expired and a new agreement could not be reached. With the AMC channel blacked out, Dish subscribers have not been able to watch the new season of the drama "Breaking Bad."


The nine paragraph Reuter's story, on the other hand, led off with:


> Dish Network Corp, the No. 2 satellite television provider in the United States, lost fewer subscribers than expected in the second quarter, which sent its shares up more than 3 percent on Thursday.


 And before mentioning AMC they included:


> "The improving customer results appear to confirm that the company continues to turn around its PayTV operations," [Canaccord Genuity analyst Tom] Eagan said in a research note on Thursday.


It could have just been the staff cutting the length of the story to fit on the page, but my paranoia kicks in when a wire service story from the internet seems carefully cut on a newspaper's internet site.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

phrelin said:


> It could have just been the staff cutting the length of the story to fit on the page, but my paranoia kicks in when a wire service story from the internet seems carefully cut on a newspaper's internet site.


Normal "newspaper" writing style allows trimming the end of articles ... the first few paragraphs tell the story, the rest gives the details. And if space is not available to "print" the whole article the details can be lost without losing the core of the story.

I guess there was not enough space on the Tribune's website for the full story. The extra words take up too much server space.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

The rest of the 2Q results out today. From http://www.nasdaq.com/article/dish-network-q2-results-down-miss-estimates-20120808-00555



> Dish Network Corp. (DISH), a provider of satellite television through its unit Dish Network L.L.C., reported Wednesday a 32.6 percent decline in second-quarter profit reflecting the loss of an orbital slot license, higher costs and lower revenues. Quarterly earnings per share and top line missed Wall Street estimates.





> Second-quarter net income attributable to the company was $226 million or $0.50 per share, sharply lower than last year's $335 million or $0.75 per share. On average, 24 analysts polled by Thomson Reuters expected earnings per share of $0.68 for the quarter. Analysts' estimates typically exclude one-time items.
> 
> The results reflected a $43 million negative impact due to the loss of the 148-degree orbital slot license in the quarter. Higher subscriber-related expenses from higher programming costs and increased subscriber acquisition costs, including increased brand advertising associated with Hopper set-top box, added to the woes.
> 
> Quarterly total revenue fell to $3.57 billion from prior year's $3.59 billion and were below analysts' estimated revenues of $3.64 billion.





> In the quarter, Dish lost approximately 10,000 net subscribers, compared to a loss of about 135,000 net subscribers last year.
> 
> Dish added approximately 665,000 gross new subscribers, a 16.3 percent increase from last year. The company ended the period with some 14.061 million subscribers.
> 
> Average monthly subscriber churn rate was 1.60 percent, compared to 1.67 percent a year ago. Increased competitive pressures could increase churn in the future, the company noted.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

*DISH Network Announces Second Quarter 2012 Financial Results*

ENGLEWOOD, CO -- (Marketwire) -- 08/08/12 -- DISH Network Corporation (NASDAQ: DISH)


_YOY gross subscriber additions increase 16 percent_
_YOY net additions improved_
_Subscriber churn rate declines YOY_
 DISH Network Corporation (NASDAQ: DISH) today reported revenue totaling $3.57 billion for the quarter ended June 30, 2012 compared with $3.59 billion for the corresponding period in 2011.

Net income attributable to DISH Network totaled $226 million for the quarter ended June 30, 2012, a 32.6 percent decrease compared with $335 million during the same period last year. As a result of the loss of the 148-degree orbital slot license in the quarter, net income was negatively impacted by $43 million.

Additional contributors to year-over-year net income decline included higher subscriber-related expenses from higher programming costs and increased subscriber acquisition costs associated with our 16.3 percent increase in gross subscriber additions, including increased brand advertising.

Diluted earnings per share were $0.50 for the second quarter, compared with $0.75 during the same period in 2011. DISH Network's net subscribers decreased by approximately 10,000 during the second quarter, and the company ended the period with approximately 14.061 million subscribers. The subscriber churn rate of 1.60 percent was an improvement over the 1.67 percent rate from the year-ago quarter.

"In the face of a difficult economy and stiff competition, a disciplined approach to subscriber acquisition and retention is paying off," said DISH CEO and President Joseph Clayton. "Our focus has overcome the seasonality of the second quarter with year-over-year growth in gross activations and a reduction in churn. Additionally, the launch of the Hopper™ Whole-Home HD DVR has improved subscriber quality by adding more DVR and broadband-connected customers to our base."

_Year-to-Date Review_ 
DISH Network's first half revenues of $7.15 billion increased 5 percent over the same period last year. In the first six months of 2012, net income attributable to DISH Network totaled $586 million compared with $884 million during the same period last year. Diluted earnings per share were $1.30 for first six months of 2012, compared with $1.98 during the same period in 2011.

Detailed financial data and other information are available in DISH Network's Form 10-Q for the quarterly period ended June 30, 2012, filed today with the Securities and Exchange Commission. 
DISH Network will host its second quarter 2012 financial results conference call today at noon ET. The dial-in number is (800) 616-6729.

_About DISH
_DISH Network Corporation (NASDAQ: DISH), through its subsidiary DISH Network L.L.C., provides approximately 14.061 million satellite TV customers, as of June 30, 2012, with the highest quality programming and technology with the most choices at the best value, including HD Free for Life. Subscribers enjoy the largest high definition line-up with more than 200 national HD channels, the most international channels, and award-winning HD and DVR technology. DISH Network Corporation's subsidiary, Blockbuster L.L.C., delivers family entertainment to millions of customers around the world. DISH Network Corporation is a Fortune 200 company. Visit www.dish.com.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

Any thoughts on why the loss of 148 would cause the drop in income? I thought the FCC took the license away because Dish wasn't using it, so if they weren't using it to begin with how could it cause a loss of $43M in income for the quarter?


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

RAD said:


> Any thoughts on why the loss of 148 would cause the drop in income? I thought the FCC took the license away because Dish wasn't using it, so if they weren't using it to begin with how could it cause a loss of $43M in income for the quarter?


Was Dish sub-leasing transponders off of 148? I know they have leased transponders on other SATs... that could explain loss of revenue if they were leasing slots on 148 before they lost it.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Stewart Vernon said:


> Was Dish sub-leasing transponders off of 148? I know they have leased transponders on other SATs... that could explain loss of revenue if they were leasing slots on 148 before they lost it.


Neither DISH nor Echostar have a satellite at 148 - which is the primary reason why DISH lost the license. I have not read through the filing, but the loss was probably writing off the value of those licenses.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

"James Long" said:


> I have not read through the filing, but the loss was probably writing off the value of those licenses.


That could be, guess I just wasn't expecting it to be noted against income vs. listing it against assets.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

James Long said:


> Neither DISH nor Echostar have a satellite at 148 - which is the primary reason why DISH lost the license. I have not read through the filing, but the loss was probably writing off the value of those licenses.


Oops... I guess I forgot when that happened. I know they used to have a SAT there  I just must have forgotten (or not noticed) when they moved it.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

_On May 31, 2012, the International Bureau of the FCC announced the termination of our license for use of the 148 degree orbital location associated with our DISH segment. We have not had a satellite positioned at the 148 degree orbital location since the retirement of EchoStar V in August 2009. Our license for use of the 148 degree orbital location had a $68 million carrying value. This amount was recorded as "Depreciation and amortization" expense on our Condensed Consolidated Statements of Operations and Comprehensive Income (Loss) in the second quarter 2012 due to the termination of this license by the FCC._
DISH SEC Filing​


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## BillJ (May 5, 2005)

Even though AMC, etc didn't go dark until June 30, I wonder how many of those 10,000 lost subscribers left because of the expected channel loss?


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

If I have a driver's license, but don't have a car or access to one, does the license have value? If I lose that license, can I take a large writeoff?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

BillJ said:


> Even though AMC, etc didn't go dark until June 30, I wonder how many of those 10,000 lost subscribers left because of the expected channel loss?


It is just a line on a balance sheet. DISH lost 675k customers, which is less than they lost in the same quarter a year ago. DISH signed up 665k new customers in the 2nd quarter. Net gains are good but DISH is still getting people to sign up for their service and the number of customers lost is not remarkably higher than 'usual'.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

SayWhat? said:


> If I have a driver's license, but don't have a car or access to one, does the license have value? If I lose that license, can I take a large writeoff?


Do you want a job that requires a driver's license? Perhaps an employer who would give you access to a vehicle for work or would require the license as a step toward operating a forklift or other vehicle at work? That would place a value on having a driver's license. And when filling out a job application or resume you might list that asset. But people don't report their financials in the same way as a business.

The satellite license had value because they are hard to get and they allow the company to do something no other company can do ... place a satellite at 148 and use it to serve customers. When a business loses an asset it needs to be written off.


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

I thought they were using 148 to serve foreign channels to the west coast as a mirror of 61.5 back when all the foreign was on 61.5? 

Now that th moved them went to a eastern arc and a western arc they most likely didn't use 148.


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## WebTraveler (Apr 9, 2006)

RAD said:


> Any thoughts on why the loss of 148 would cause the drop in income? I thought the FCC took the license away because Dish wasn't using it, so if they weren't using it to begin with how could it cause a loss of $43M in income for the quarter?


It's probably the capitalized costs on Dish's books now charged to a loss on a discontinued operation.....


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