# Need opinions\advice on 65"+ size



## JeffBowser (Dec 21, 2006)

I am finally serious about replacing my first generation HD RPTV. I went to BestBuy yesterday with every intention of getting the Panasonic TC-P65V10 plasma. However, when I got there, there were so many good looking displays, and so many choices, and the Panny didn't really JUMP out at me like I thought it might. Plus, strangely, even though I was ready to pay cash and walk, BestBuy absolutely refused to move off MSRP. No way I'm paying MSRP, and it stunned me that they'd rather take nothing than give me 10% off.

So, anyway, I am now ambivalent about my choice between DLP, plasma, and LCD, and my wife suggested that perhaps 65" is not our max after all, why not look into the 65 to 83" range. So, I am hunting opinions of what might be the best technology in this size. The room has a lot of ambient light, and viewing angle is somewhat important to us, but there is no overriding variable either way...


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## shedberg (Jan 20, 2007)

I would go with the Panny anyway. The TVs in the stores are set in a way that the plasmas look bad and are better at home. I would recommend calling Cleveland Plasma - they will negotiate and Chris won't do you wrong. He can even discuss your options so you know which TV to buy. Good luck! By the way, I have a 54 V10 and have never been happier with a TV - even in a lit room!


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## JeffBowser (Dec 21, 2006)

Thanks for your input. The plasma was actually set to THX mode, and the source signal was, of all things, DirecTV in 1080i on NatGEO HD. Of course, they had none of the TV's I wanted to compare showing the same source, and the big 82" DLP was showing a flipping animated movie, terrible for comparison purposes.


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## shedberg (Jan 20, 2007)

Usually the box stores have the LCDs set up to look good in their environment. The Pannys don't look too good in the stores because of the lighting and such. Give Chris a call. I ordered one from him last year and he was very patient in explaining things to me. They also ran break in slides for me and calibrated the set before they shipped it. Nothing but good to say for them.

If you are unsure, do you have any friends with a Panny you can look at? I am actually a believer of whatever looks good to you is what you should buy. Chris can point you in the right direction depending upon what you like!


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## JeffBowser (Dec 21, 2006)

Thanks, I may give him a call, but Cleveland is an awfully long way from Ft. Lauderdale.....


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## RichardMcCarty (Jul 14, 2007)

Is there a Magnolia Audio-Video near you? This Best Buy owned chain specializes in home theater products, and you'll have a much more satisfactory TV-shopping experience there.


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## JeffBowser (Dec 21, 2006)

I appreciate your input, but I'm not really shopping for an "experience", and my experiences down here with home theater shops are they charge MSRP and more, and insist on doing setup as well. I'd just as soon order from Amazon (where I can get that Panny for $3400), than pay a shop for services I don't need. I'm just torn between DLP and plasma. I now don't really think I'm going to find an adequate, or affordable, LCD in the size I am looking for.


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## Mark Walters (Sep 21, 2009)

The V10 is gorgeous. It's worth every penny. It's last years model so you could find better, but nothing wrong with it.


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## JeffBowser (Dec 21, 2006)

It just came out in August, it's new enough (and now, at $3100....). What would you consider better?



Mark Walters said:


> The V10 is gorgeous. It's worth every penny. It's last years model so you could find better, but nothing wrong with it.


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## Lee L (Aug 15, 2002)

JeffBowser said:


> Thanks, I may give him a call, but Cleveland is an awfully long way from Ft. Lauderdale.....


They ship them of course and warranty service is totally seperate from the dealer network anyway. I have never bought from them, but they have an excellent rep around various forums.

You also might check to see if the company you or your wife work for is eligible for Panasonics employee purchase program. They have a site that you can log in if you are eligible with pricing that ranges from pretty much the same as you can get anywhere to dramitically less than anywhere else, depending on circumstances. 2.5 or 3 years ago, we got a a 58 inch plasma from there that was listing at $5,500 at thime and selling for maybe $4500 in stores that ended up being about $3300 from Panasonic. Other times we have cheecked and the pricing was not that much off though.

AS far as shippping, I would not worry too much about it as Most of the Panasonic plasmas are assembled in Mexico from parts made mostly in asia (the Panel itself and some other parts) and shipped all over already, so one more truck ride should not hurt.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

The Mits 2009 DLP line is extremly good. The 659 can be had for less than $1500 and the 73" for around $2000. I bought the 60" in December for $650.

The blacks are tremendously improved on these models (737, 837, C9) and there's a plethora of calibration setttings.

Now, some don't like DLP because you can't hang them on a wall, but if you have no need for that, they're a great choice. Plus, they're 3D ready.

HERE'S the review of the 73837 that Home Theater Magazine did a couple of months ago.


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## JeffBowser (Dec 21, 2006)

Lee - thanks. Given my wife and I both own our own businesses, I can tell you we're not on any discount programs. I actually e-mailed Cleveland Plasma, and his price is close, but still too close to MSRP to make me jump. The Amazon associated reseller is now at $3100. I think I need to wait for the spring models to come out, that should drive the price down on last years.

Spartan - I've been advised away from DLP from several sources, but I agree, the price point is much more attractive over the plasma. However, the potential for the rainbow effect, and the viewing angle issue I think is going to end up making that a non-starter for me. I went and looked at one this afternoon - if fades too fast off angle, and we have a lot of off-angle seating in our room....


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

JeffBowser said:


> Spartan - I've been advised away from DLP from several sources, but I agree, the price point is much more attractive over the plasma. However, the potential for the rainbow effect, and the viewing angle issue I think is going to end up making that a non-starter for me. I went and looked at one this afternoon - if fades too fast off angle, and we have a lot of off-angle seating in our room....


I can't comment on the rainbow effect as I'm not prone to that phenomenon and have never witnessed it, but in regards to viewing angles, these displays are very good when properly calibrated. Here's the part of that review that mentions it:

*While rear-pro sets do lose brightness off axis, this set doesn't produce the odd effects that LCD flat panel displays often produce off axis (obvious color shifts, degraded black levels). If you remain roughly centered on the screen vertically, the Mitsubishi will dim when you move off center horizontally. But it didn't produce any anomalies that are likely to bother the average viewer-even at the widest angle I checked (about 45 degrees). *

If I'm seated and then stand up, I can notice a slight dimming on my set, but the picture is not effected by viewing angles when seated (I have big range in my room too).


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## JeffBowser (Dec 21, 2006)

Thanks for that insight. I'm going to have to revist a brick and mortar store and have a closer look. Hopefully I can get them to play a film and not a cartoon. How are reflections? I'm getting mighty tired of the mirror that is my 1st generation CRT based Mitsubishi RPTV.



spartanstew said:


> I can't comment on the rainbow effect as I'm not prone to that phenomenon and have never witnessed it, but in regards to viewing angles, these displays are very good when properly calibrated. Here's the part of that review that mentions it:
> 
> *While rear-pro sets do lose brightness off axis, this set doesn't produce the odd effects that LCD flat panel displays often produce off axis (obvious color shifts, degraded black levels). If you remain roughly centered on the screen vertically, the Mitsubishi will dim when you move off center horizontally. But it didn't produce any anomalies that are likely to bother the average viewer-even at the widest angle I checked (about 45 degrees). *
> 
> If I'm seated and then stand up, I can notice a slight dimming on my set, but the picture is not effected by viewing angles when seated (I have big range in my room too).


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

For the size of the screen and the budget amount have you considered a projector? Assuming the room is suitable for one?


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## JeffBowser (Dec 21, 2006)

I did, actually, but there is waaay to much ambient light for that. There are 3 floor to ceiling windows in the room itself, a french door, and the room is open on the opposite side to my florida room, which is all glass. Daytime viewing of a projector would be nigh impossible.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

JeffBowser said:


> Thanks for that insight. I'm going to have to revist a brick and mortar store and have a closer look. Hopefully I can get them to play a film and not a cartoon. How are reflections? I'm getting mighty tired of the mirror that is my 1st generation CRT based Mitsubishi RPTV.


I haven't had an issue with reflections, but a lot of that depends on the room (I have a wall of windows, but they have shutters on them that are usually closed). These sets do have a non-gloss screen and the 837 models have different settings for day/night viewing as well.


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## RichardMcCarty (Jul 14, 2007)

My point, apparently not well stated, was that a home theater specialty store, like Magnolia, is far more likely to show you what you want to see. At least that was my experience.

When I asked Best Buy staff to connect a Blu-Ray to a $4000 TV, they looked at me like I was from Mars. Magnolia didn't hesitate.



JeffBowser said:


> Thanks for that insight. I'm going to have to revist a brick and mortar store and have a closer look. Hopefully I can get them to play a film and not a cartoon. How are reflections? I'm getting mighty tired of the mirror that is my 1st generation CRT based Mitsubishi RPTV.


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## JeffBowser (Dec 21, 2006)

Ah, Thanks. I investigated Magnolia yesterday after you mentioned it, and down here, at least, they are only found inside the BestBuy stores. OK, so where is the closest one. Turns out, it was the very BestBuy I was in this last weekend that refused to do anything. I recall the section I was in was a darkened room off the main store, but at the time I didn't think anything of it, I just thought maybe that's just where they kept all their bigger TVs.



RichardMcCarty said:


> My point, apparently not well stated, was that a home theater specialty store, like Magnolia, is far more likely to show you what you want to see. At least that was my experience.
> 
> When I asked Best Buy staff to connect a Blu-Ray to a $4000 TV, they looked at me like I was from Mars. Magnolia didn't hesitate.


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## lugnutathome (Apr 13, 2009)

The Rainbow effect has diminished as DLP has matured. I've a 62 in Toshiba from early 05 that shows this and a 57 inch Toshiba from mid 07 that does not show it at all... BUT this being said I'll not get another DLP TV....

Viewing angle drop off is tolerable more or less from side to side or when rising above the image center. Dropping below however is drastic. I've some mid wall ledges in my main theater room and in my master bedroom. I had a 46 inch DLP in the MB that I put on the ledge and its image was dismal.

My son and I engineered a stand that tilted it down and elevated it above my Yamaha YSP sound system but still image wasn't quite right unless viewed from farther back. A Sony XBR 46 incl LCD solved that problem when the DLP bulb fried and it would not function with a new bulb.

Fortunately I'd paid for one of those extended warranty deals and after they could not fix the TV they cut me a check for the full initial price of the unit. Enough to pay for the Sony which I'd already purchased.

Toshiba, Samsung and others have dropped DLP. Most of the brands have dropped Plasma too.

In 2 months the first of the LCD units with panels made at the new joint Sharp/Sony panel manufacturing facility are hitting the retailers. Sony has a 60 inch with LED backlight priced at 3400 dollars, Sharp has a similar offering for less. If you can hold on a few months there may be some reasonably priced 65 inch and up units coming out from this facility.

I've the funds allocated, am just looking to see the units in action before I release the hounds.

Don "friends don't let friends buy DLP" Bolton



JeffBowser said:


> Lee - thanks. Given my wife and I both own our own businesses, I can tell you we're not on any discount programs. I actually e-mailed Cleveland Plasma, and his price is close, but still too close to MSRP to make me jump. The Amazon associated reseller is now at $3100. I think I need to wait for the spring models to come out, that should drive the price down on last years.
> 
> Spartan - I've been advised away from DLP from several sources, but I agree, the price point is much more attractive over the plasma. However, the potential for the rainbow effect, and the viewing angle issue I think is going to end up making that a non-starter for me. I went and looked at one this afternoon - if fades too fast off angle, and we have a lot of off-angle seating in our room....


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

Before you consider a Mitsubishi...

http://www.pcworld.com/article/154129/sony_hdtvs_rated_most_reliable_by_pc_world_readers.html


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## JeffBowser (Dec 21, 2006)

My first Mitsubishi, a 50" SD RPTV lasted me 10 years. my current 65" HD RPTV is now 8 years old, neither ever had any issues. That being said, I'm not really considering Mitsubishi anymore, and despite my experience, that article does carry weight. Who knows what happened in the 8 years since I bought my 65.



BattleZone said:


> Before you consider a Mitsubishi...
> 
> http://www.pcworld.com/article/154129/sony_hdtvs_rated_most_reliable_by_pc_world_readers.html


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## JeffBowser (Dec 21, 2006)

I have 4 LCDs in my house, all different brands, all 36". I cannot stand the color shift and diminished viewing angles these sets show. Are you saying these newer LCD's conquer that issue? I literally have seating (when we have a crowd) that is nearly 160 degrees off angle.....



lugnutathome said:


> The Rainbow effect has diminished as DLP has matured. I've a 62 in Toshiba from early 05 that shows this and a 57 inch Toshiba from mid 07 that does not show it at all... BUT this being said I'll not get another DLP TV....
> 
> Viewing angle drop off is tolerable more or less from side to side or when rising above the image center. Dropping below however is drastic. I've some mid wall ledges in my main theater room and in my master bedroom. I had a 46 inch DLP in the MB that I put on the ledge and its image was dismal.
> 
> ...


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## Lee L (Aug 15, 2002)

We have a rec room with several TVs. Most are plasma, but one above the bar is LCD due to only being able to fit a 32 there and no plasmas come that small. It is a Panasonic 32X1, which is not that high end of a set (streets for about $450 now)and I can see the image from any angle that allows you to see the screen and it looks darn good. Frankly, about the same as the plasmas and I was amazed at how good it looked.

I wold say to look at the TV in teh store to be sure, but it is definitely possible to make a LCD with a great veiwing angle.

Now, I still think plasma is better for many other reasons, especially for sports viewing, but LCD is gettign closer all the time.


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## lugnutathome (Apr 13, 2009)

If your viewing angles are that great then only something that sends the color itself to the absolute display surface such as plasma or OLED will please you at those extremes. LCD is not bad but yeah, as you state it does lose depth of color at the extremes. Some are better than others probably the thin panel units would look better at the extreme.

Sometimes room dynamics just ruin a great concept. I've been waiting for an affordable 65 inch LCD for awhile now. And with LED coming of age a non CCFL backlight is what I want. YMMV

Don "Coming soon to a Costco near you" Bolton



JeffBowser said:


> I have 4 LCDs in my house, all different brands, all 36". I cannot stand the color shift and diminished viewing angles these sets show. Are you saying these newer LCD's conquer that issue? I literally have seating (when we have a crowd) that is nearly 160 degrees off angle.....


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## JeffBowser (Dec 21, 2006)

I'm a tad surprised LEDs haven't started becoming the primary screen, as opposed to just the back lighting.


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