# DIRECTV HD Receiver with TiVo (Official Q4 2010 Thread)



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Folks, there's precious little to say about the upcoming DIRECTV TiVo-based device that hasn't already been said, but here's the thread for you to say it.

Ground Rules:

This is not a free-for-all. Rudeness will not be tolerated.

If you harp on a particular point to the exclusion of others, your posts may be deleted.

Synopsis of common arguments: (in other words, this ground's already been trodden, do we have to go there again?)


Many people like the TiVo interface, especially the list guide. 
Many people are equally fond of the DIRECTV interface. 
Many people think that TiVos are easier for them to use.
Many people think that DIRECTV DVRs are easier for them to use.
Standalone TiVo devices have many features that are appealing to people. 
No guarantee has been made that any feature from a standalone TiVo will make it to the DIRECTV TiVo. 
The new device will run on DIRECTV hardware, although we don't know how that will work (we have some ideas). 
TiVo, Inc. will develop the software for the device and seems to be solely responsible for the user experience.

Further, we've learned that the new TiVo for DIRECTV will *not* have the upgraded user experience seen in the TiVo Premiere, and since the DIRECTV HR24-500 DVR has been released, there has been some question as to what DIRECTV platform will underpin the new TiVo.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

..and go!


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

And we're a go....or not. 

How can TiVo make sure it appeals to the general subscriber? Without that they're dead in the water. 

Some how they have to make the current subs want to switch. I don't think it will work if they have to rely on a percentage of new subs.

Mike


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

My personal belief is that it will be a bit of a flop. Hopefully the unit works well or it won't be pretty.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

What ever it is it will need to make existing subs want to switch. Without that it will be a non-starter.

Mike


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## trainman (Jan 9, 2008)

I'm going to be interested to see how much promotion DirecTV does for the TiVo option once it becomes available -- messages on TV Mail? Mentions in direct-mail/newspaper circulars? "Internal" TV commercials? "External" TV commercials?


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

"Doug Brott" said:


> My personal belief is that it will be a bit of a flop. Hopefully the unit works well or it won't be pretty.


Despite my criticism of TiVo, I want it to succeed. Alternatives are good if they are good. I like my current DVRs and if something is better, great. If it is almost as good or close to good, fine.


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by bonscott87
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted by CuriousMark
> ...


My experience is solely with the series 2 standalone DVRs. In the event of a conflict I am presented with a list of which upcoming episodes will be recorded and which will be skipped because they conflict with a higher priority show. I am then given the choice to record the series as is loosing episodes that conflict or getting all episodes which will put it at the top of the list causing the conflicting episodes of the other show to not be recorded. What I saw while trying to set up series links did not offer me that level of detail with which to make a decision. After further playing around I see I can get to that information by going to the series manager and wandering around the upcoming shows lists. So I can get what I want, it is just harder.



> On the HR2x it will give you the choice of canceling *either* of the first two or the new request. And it certainly doesn't cancel the entire series, just the episode in question that is in conflict and if there is a later showing it will pick it up and record it...just like a Tivo.


I was only offered the options to cancel the entire link, or at least that is what it appeared to be offering. If it was going to do what you suggest I would have expected to see an option for partial recording and I did not. After setting up some more on other channels, USA for example, I do see a third option, which does make sense.

It is different, I am figuring it out.

On another note, the new HR24 has not had any spontaneous reboots, so the first probably was a lemon.

I tried the list guide option, that is helpful, but I do wish it were the default.

So far, and it is very early days for me with the HR24, I have yet to try out any network functions for example, I think this will tide me over until the TiVo version comes out, but it has not wowed me and I will still want the TiVo version when it comes out.


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## pfp (Apr 28, 2009)

MicroBeta said:


> What ever it is it will need to make existing subs want to switch. Without that it will be a non-starter.
> 
> Mike


Agree 100%. It's been way too long for the TiVo fans to become accustomed to the HR2x and I'm sure we'll see at least one (likely more) anticipation thread too.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Judging from everything I've read in the various newsletters I subscribe to, this thread might as well have been about the 1st quarter of 2011. If we ever get to see the D* TiVo, I don't think it will before then. But...

Rich


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

trainman said:


> I'm going to be interested to see how much promotion DirecTV does for the TiVo option once it becomes available -- messages on TV Mail? Mentions in direct-mail/newspaper circulars? "Internal" TV commercials? "External" TV commercials?


Unless I am missing it - most of the commercials I see for Directv compare thier services and nothing on the hardware, same with printed media and website ads, if they change this for the other unit it would be a interesting variance for them


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

tonyd79 said:


> Despite my criticism of TiVo, I want it to succeed. Alternatives are good if they are good. I like my current DVRs and if something is better, great. If it is almost as good or close to good, fine.


I don't want TiVo to fail .. I just think the already have.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> My personal belief is that it will be a bit of a flop. Hopefully the unit works well or it won't be pretty.


My guess is it will simply be an MPEG-4 HR10 clone, perhaps with MRV. As a result, I believe beauty will be in the eye of the beholder. DirecTiVO holdouts will give it a :up:, but HR2x fans will ask _"Where's the beef?"_ :shrug:


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## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> I don't want TiVo to fail .. I just think the already have.


I am in the same boat. I want it to succeed for a completely selfish reason: competitive pressure is good.

That being said, it would have to be stellar to be anything more than a minor event. I believe the real success will be in DirecTV extending an amicable licensing agreement (read lawsuit protection) through the expiration of TiVo's intellectual property. I base this off of the disappointment in the non-event that has been the TiVo Premiere. It took forever to release it and then some of its most desirable features have proven to be its greatest weaknesses.

That doesn't mean it won't be a good product but they are no longer in the driver's seat. The HR2x DVRs have far eclipsed the DirecTV TiVo in terms of total units and customers have much higher standards. DirecTV made a platform that people accepted. TiVo now has to release something good enough for them to give up what they have. That means few bugs, some impressive and unique features and pretty much every function they now have on the HR2x.

That is an uphill battle and they have very little history on their side.


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## smiddy (Apr 5, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> ..and go!


Uhm, why? I think it is clear that this box' light of day is next year at best. Why bother? :lol: Ok, ok, the cynic in me has come out, I'm sorry. Perhaps we will get something by Christmas that will give us all confidence that we're not just dealing with a vaporware product from TiVo. I hope it is spectacular too.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> I don't want TiVo to fail .. I just think the already have.


Judging by the drop of subscribers to TiVo in it's various forms, I agree. They'd have to come up with something that would blow our socks off and I don't see that coming.

Rich


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## litzdog911 (Jun 23, 2004)

tonyd79 said:


> Despite my criticism of TiVo, I want it to succeed. Alternatives are good if they are good. I like my current DVRs and if something is better, great. If it is almost as good or close to good, fine.


Me too. But I fear that by early 2011 there won't be much interest any more, unless the new Tivo has some sort of knock-your-socks-of features that the current HD DVRs don't provide.


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## sbl (Jul 21, 2007)

I have an HR20 and HR21, but my wife still uses the HR10 because she prefers the TiVo UI and feels it is also faster. I'm not so sure on the latter point, but... She's willing to stick to SD rather than use the HR2x boxes - says she "doesn't need HD", but she does enjoy the HD when she does watch it.

If the new TiVo box had come out even close to on-time, I would probably have gone for it automatically. Now, I'm unsure and will probably not be an "early adopter". A lot will depend on how much extra it costs (initially and monthly - I assume there WILL be a monthly "TiVo fee") and what it brings to the table other than the TiVo UI. Note that we do not use Suggestions and things such as KidZone and SwivelSearch have no appeal to us.

Unless the new box is very good, I may just stick with what I have until the HR10 dies and forces the issue. I'd love to have TiVo wow me here, but I'm not counting on it.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

sbl said:


> I have an HR20 and HR21, but my wife still uses the HR10 because she prefers the TiVo UI and feels it is also faster. I'm not so sure on the latter point, but... She's willing to stick to SD rather than use the HR2x boxes - says she "doesn't need HD", but she does enjoy the HD when she does watch it.
> 
> If the new TiVo box had come out even close to on-time, I would probably have gone for it automatically. Now, I'm unsure and will probably not be an "early adopter". A lot will depend on how much extra it costs (initially and monthly - I assume there WILL be a monthly "TiVo fee") and what it brings to the table other than the TiVo UI. Note that we do not use Suggestions and things such as KidZone and SwivelSearch have no appeal to us.
> 
> Unless the new box is very good, I may just stick with what I have until the HR10 dies and forces the issue. I'd love to have TiVo wow me here, but I'm not counting on it.


It would "wow" me just to see one.

Rich


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

rich584 said:


> Judging by the drop of subscribers to TiVo in it's various forms, I agree. They'd have to come up with something that would blow our socks off and I don't see that coming.
> 
> Rich


I'm on that same page.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I'm on that same page.


Great minds... :lol:

Rich


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Steve said:


> My guess is it will simply be an MPEG-4 HR10 clone, perhaps with MRV.


The early press releases said that TiVo was working on software for the "DIRECTV's broadband-enabled HD DVR platform" and that it would "support the latest TiVo and DIRECTV features and services".

In TiVo's Q2 2011 earnings call (August 25, 2010), Mr. Rogers said that TiVo was porting their platform to a Technicolor (-100) box. [strike]Since Technicolor hasn't delivered an HR24,[/strike] maybe they will produce all of the DIRECTiVo boxes. This may be a blow to those hoping for backwards compatibility.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

harsh said:


> The early press releases said that TiVo was working on software for the "DIRECTV's broadband-enabled HD DVR platform" and that it would "support the latest TiVo and DIRECTV features and services".
> 
> In TiVo's Q2 2011 earnings call (August 25, 2010), Mr. Rogers said that TiVo was porting their platform to a Technicolor (-100) box. *Since Technicolor hasn't delivered an HR24*, maybe they will produce all of the DIRECTiVo boxes. This may be a blow to those hoping for backwards compatibility.


So I guess I should stop using my HR24-100? 

That aside, in the last thread, *codespy *unearthed a "THR22-100", which leads me to speculate it will be based on the HR22.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Steve said:


> So I guess I should stop using my HR24-100?


Sorry about that. The date I misread was March and not September as I thought.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

harsh said:


> Sorry about that. The date I misread was March and not September as I thought.


No matter, really, if it turns out it will be based on the HR22. It could happen, because (a) the TiVO HD was based on that same chipset and (b) the HR22 supports MRV, if they choose to include it.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

It seems like it shouldn't have taken two years to adapt something for the same chipset given that DIRECTV has already done all the heavy lifting of dealing with the unique issues (WHDS, tuner and authorization control) that they bring to the party.

Maybe the CIG issues with DIRECTV guide data are really that difficult.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

harsh said:


> It seems like it shouldn't have taken two years to adapt something for the same chipset given that DIRECTV has already done all the heavy lifting of dealing with the unique issues (WHDS, tuner and authorization control) that they bring to the party.
> 
> Maybe the CIG issues with DIRECTV guide data are really that difficult.




That likely has NOTHING to do with the delay.

CIG is very small minnow in Ocean pond.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

harsh said:


> It seems like it shouldn't have taken two years to adapt something for the same chipset [...]


For sure. Had TiVO begun a port to the HR20 or HR21 in the fall of 2008, right after the 9/08 announcement, and delivered an MPEG-4 HR10 by mid 2009, they probably would have _conservatively_ retained 1,000,000 DirecTiVO subs, if not more. Instead, some of those folks left DirecTV, and others switched to the HR2x.

All _"Could'a, would'a, should'a..."_ now.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> That likely has NOTHING to do with the delay.


Do you have a better explanation?

Obviously, if DIRECTV or TiVo made a monumentally stupid design decision that this machine would have to overcome, that would explain the delay but that doesn't seem entirely likely either.

Maybe TiVo just wasn't devoting any resources to the project for a long time.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

harsh said:


> Do you have a better explanation?
> 
> Obviously, if DIRECTV or TiVo made a monumentally stupid design decision that this machine would have to overcome, that would explain the delay but that doesn't seem entirely likely either.
> 
> Maybe TiVo just wasn't devoting any resources to the project for a long time.


What is the basis behind believing CIG is the holdup?

Mike


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

harsh said:


> Do you have a better explanation?
> 
> Obviously, if DIRECTV or TiVo made a monumentally stupid design decision that this machine would have to overcome, that would explain the delay but that doesn't seem entirely likely either.
> 
> Maybe TiVo just wasn't devoting any resources to the project for a long time.


Tivo has already proven it takes longer than planned on multiple development projects. The Comcast commitment to delivery time was over a year late.

There's no reason to think anything but this is another example of Tivo failing to deliver on time - its not unique in this case.


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## joshjr (Aug 2, 2008)

sbl said:


> I have an HR20 and HR21, but my wife still uses the HR10 because she prefers the TiVo UI and feels it is also faster. I'm not so sure on the latter point, but... She's willing to stick to SD rather than use the HR2x boxes - says she "doesn't need HD", but she does enjoy the HD when she does watch it.
> 
> If the new TiVo box had come out even close to on-time, I would probably have gone for it automatically. Now, I'm unsure and will probably not be an "early adopter". *A lot will depend on how much extra it costs (initially and monthly - I assume there WILL be a monthly "TiVo fee") and what it brings to the table other than the TiVo UI.* Note that we do not use Suggestions and things such as KidZone and SwivelSearch have no appeal to us.
> 
> Unless the new box is very good, I may just stick with what I have until the HR10 dies and forces the issue. I'd love to have TiVo wow me here, but I'm not counting on it.


Thats it right there for me. I want to see how it gets reviewed and then cost is a big issue. Are there going to be alot of people willing to pay $300-$1000 and it be a leased unit? I know I wont. Will they offer it as an owned unit? Will D* have replacements of the TiVO if it fails and you have the PP or will your $300-$1000 be down the drain? Those all make a big difference on if people are gonna go with the TiVo name just because its a freaking TiVo.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> There's no reason to think anything but this is another example of Tivo failing to deliver on time - its not unique in this case.


Given the similarity of the platforms in this case, it wouldn't seem to be nearly the departure that a Cisco or Motorola box would be.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Steve said:


> So I guess I should stop using my HR24-100?
> 
> That aside, in the last thread, *codespy *unearthed a "THR22-100", which leads me to speculate it will be based on the HR22.


Betcha *Mike Greer* will run out and buy three of them!!! :lol:

Rich


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

MicroBeta said:


> What is the basis behind believing CIG is the holdup?


A accurate CIG is imperative to the proper function of a modern TiVo enabled device. CIG is a problem that DIRECTV doesn't seem to have an definitive answer for after many years of poking at it.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

harsh said:


> Given the similarity of the platforms in this case, it wouldn't seem to be nearly the departure that a Cisco or Motorola box would be.


Yea, but you're giving Tivo too much credit here for actually knowing what they are doing. It's pretty obvious over the past 4-5 years that they don't know what they are doing anymore and mismanage every project they work on.

Comcast Tivo 2 yrs late and *still* not rolled out other then beta markets.
Cox Tivo is what...3 yrs late now and still not seen anywhere.
Tivo Premier was released half backed and they aren't moving very quickly to fix or update the whole UI.
And of course DirecTivo is late by at least a year now.

Tivo just doesn't have it anymore. Maybe bad programming or just bad project managers. But either way they lost it a long time ago.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

I thought CIG was fixed?


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## litzdog911 (Jun 23, 2004)

sigma1914 said:


> I thought CIG was fixed?


Yep, it's pretty close on my equipment now. Just a couple of "errors".


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

And to claim that Tivo had CIG all solved is laughable. Man, how many times was I removing channels in my custom favorites list because Tivo felt I "needed" to see them. LOL.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

bonscott87 said:


> Yea, but you're giving Tivo too much credit here for actually knowing what they are doing.


TiVo had the software largely done for the chipset. DIRECTV was to supply most of the DIRECTV peculiar stuff.

What's left? Making sure that TiVo2Go doesn't work?


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

bonscott87 said:


> And to claim that Tivo had CIG all solved is laughable. Man, how many times was I removing channels in my custom favorites list because Tivo felt I "needed" to see them.


What you're talking about is favorites not working as you expect. CIG and favorites are two different concepts. One popular use of Suggestions is to find content that you wouldn't necessarily find among your favorite channels.


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

bonscott87 said:


> 1. Comcast Tivo 2 yrs late and *still* not rolled out other then beta markets.
> 2. Cox Tivo is what...3 yrs late now and still not seen anywhere.
> 3. Tivo Premier was released half backed and they aren't moving very quickly to fix or update the whole UI.
> And of course DirecTivo is late by at least a year now.


1. It was mentioned in interviews or quarterlies that it will not be. The market has moved on and both sides agree that continued effort on that was not warranted. They are now instead working on a Tru2way software solution to download onto a tru2way DVR box.

2. From the same source TiVo and Cox now say they are working on support of the TiVo Premiere as is. The Cox version of the Premiere will likely support SDV, VOD and PPV. Cox will supply the box and marry it with cable cards so that the user gets the same treatment they do now ordering a Cox cable DVR.

3. Premiere early release problems with exceptionally slow UI, sensitivity to network speed and latency, random reboots and hangs have been mostly fixed. The UI is still slower than many would like, other feel it is fast enough to match the speed of cable DVRs and HR10s. The UI is still unfinished with many screens reverding to an SD format. The second core of the processor has also not yet been enabled ( but we know how hard getting multi-threading to work right can be). The fact that RCN hasn't turned it on yet, indicates at least they don't think the HDUI is ready for prime time yet. When run with the SDUI, most people love the box. Pandora and was just added and Hulu Plus will be added soon. So *for TiVo*, I would say that development on this box has been fast paced.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

harsh said:


> TiVo had the software largely done for the chipset. DIRECTV was to supply most of the DIRECTV peculiar stuff.
> 
> What's left? Making sure that TiVo2Go doesn't work?


Sounds like your arguing with me when in fact we agree (imagine that). Tivo is incompetent.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

harsh said:


> A accurate CIG is imperative to the proper function of a modern TiVo enabled device. CIG is a problem that DIRECTV doesn't seem to have an definitive answer for after many years of poking at it.


All of that is true. So?

I'm just trying to understand what the cause and effect relationship is as a basis for thinking that TiVo won't release their firmware due to feature that doesn't work quite right for DirecTV?

Would it have something to do with Wishlists or Suggestions? I would think they would still work but maybe there is something else I'm missing.

The way I see it they use Tribune for their guide data, they have already written firmware for an HD DVR on the BCM7401, and they got it to work with all their features. This would lead me to believe the CIG is one of the least likely causes for the delay.

Mike


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

sigma1914 said:


> I thought CIG was fixed?


It's pretty close now. At any rate I haven't found a recent example that doesn't work. :grin:

Mike


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

"harsh" said:


> A accurate CIG is imperative to the proper function of a modern TiVo enabled device. CIG is a problem that DIRECTV doesn't seem to have an definitive answer for after many years of poking at it.


Not really. You tell the TiVo what you receive. It doesn't tell you.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

harsh said:


> TiVo had the software largely done for the chipset. DIRECTV was to supply most of the DIRECTV peculiar stuff.
> 
> What's left? Making sure that TiVo2Go doesn't work?


You are making inaccurate assumptions here ..

DIRECTV supplies the hardware and the necessary secret sauce to access the data stream .. TiVo supplies the rest. There is now "DIRECTV peculiar stuff" that will be added by DIRECTV. This is a TiVo effort top to bottom. All DIRECTV did was say "Sure, go for it."


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Doug Brott said:


> There is now "DIRECTV peculiar stuff" that will be added by DIRECTV. This is a TiVo effort top to bottom. All DIRECTV did was say "Sure, go for it."


The redacted agreement that we saw had DIRECTV responsible for all necessary documentation of the hardware APIs; even if DIRECTV had to be beat out of the hardware vendors.

Surely not an agreement to provide volumes of code, but not a mandate to pound sand either. After all, we're talking about some not-too-complex stuff in tuners and access control. The real magic in a DVR should be elsewhere.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

harsh said:


> The redacted agreement that we saw had DIRECTV responsible for all necessary documentation of the hardware APIs; even if DIRECTV had to be beat out of the hardware vendors.
> 
> Surely not an agreement to provide volumes of code, but not a mandate to pound sand either. After all, we're talking about some not-too-complex stuff in tuners and access control. The real magic in a DVR should be elsewhere.


I wouldn't worry about it if I were you. If a TiVo unit even got near your Dish gear one or the other would sue each other immediately. I have to imagine that there are legal swat teams mobilized across the country to prevent such a meeting.


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## smiddy (Apr 5, 2006)

So, does anyone have any idea what this puppy is supposed to look like?


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

smiddy said:


> So, does anyone have any idea what this puppy is supposed to look like?


Lights on the front, connectors on the back, and DirecTV/TiVo logos. 

Mike


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## smiddy (Apr 5, 2006)

MicroBeta said:


> Lights on the front, connectors on the back, and DirecTV/TiVo logos.
> 
> Mike


Well, what if they put the connectors on the sides?


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

smiddy said:


> Well, what if they put the connectors on the sides?


Very Interesting. 

How about under a door on the top so a bundle of wires can go into the case as one gang rather than a tangle. :grin:

Mike


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

MicroBeta said:


> How about under a door on the top so a bundle of wires can go into the case as one gang rather than a tangle. :grin:


Nice "inside-the-box" thinking! :up:


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

smiddy said:


> So, does anyone have any idea what this puppy is supposed to look like?


If the finding of a THR-22 model number pans out and indicates that it is based on the HR-22, it will look like one of those, but with a different front panel showing a TiVo and DirecTV logo, and that should be about it.


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## Maruuk (Dec 5, 2007)

Just announced "early 2011" for the D*/Tivo.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13506_3-20018468-17.html?tag=cnetRiver


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

Maruuk said:


> Just announced "early 2011" for the D*/Tivo.
> 
> http://news.cnet.com/8301-13506_3-20018468-17.html?tag=cnetRiver


Cnet is just a bit late on the story.


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## Draconis (Mar 16, 2007)

I just saw the article myself, looks like they are going to have to rename this thread.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Maruuk said:


> Just announced "early 2011" for the D*/Tivo.
> 
> http://news.cnet.com/8301-13506_3-20018468-17.html?tag=cnetRiver


....at that site....but "announced" several weeks back at another site and and posted by another poster at that time.

Thanks - and it is good to still "re-share" this kind of confirmation, as it helps reinforce what many here have been saying - folks will have to hold their breath a bit longer if a new HD Tivobox is what tickles their fancy.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

Draconis said:


> I just saw the article myself, looks like they are going to have to rename this thread.


Why would they rename the thread? This is the Q4 discussion thread...this is Q4.


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## Maruuk (Dec 5, 2007)

Well it was no surprise at any rate. The Tivo camp had been quiet, too quiet. Never a good sign in movies or in product delivery anticipation.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Cnet is way late on this "announcement"


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> Cnet is way late on this "announcement"


That has become the norm for Cnet over the last few years.


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## oldfantom (Mar 13, 2006)

I stopped trolling in this thread (as opposed to being a troll in the thread) a while back because my anticipation has slowly worn to resignation.  Does Tivo think they are going to have any kind of market buzz when they finally do roll a product? Maybe if they go to the 10 year plus Duke Nukem development cycle, they will get people to buy out of morbid curiosity?


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## jaywdetroit (Sep 21, 2006)

oldfantom said:


> I stopped trolling in this thread (as opposed to being a troll in the thread) a while back because my anticipation has slowly worn to resignation. Does Tivo think they are going to have any kind of market buzz when they finally do roll a product? Maybe if they go to the 10 year plus Duke Nukem development cycle, they will get people to buy out of morbid curiosity?


I check this thread out once every week or two. I've long ago given up and switched to Tivo with Comcast.

The CNET article underscores what I have been believing for some time... The Tivo announcement of 2008 is/was and will continue to be smoke and mirrors.

I have come to believe that the behind the scenes folks have never intended this product to come to market.

Imagine how many subs D* risked losing if that was known 3 years ago when PR on the new DVR was poor. Now those folks have been assimilated to something new... and now Tivo doesn't seem so shiny.

Meanwhile, I have about 175 suggestions recorded, the kids and I always find something new and interesting to watch.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

jaywdetroit said:


> the kids and I always find something new and interesting to watch.


Funny thing. Me too. And I don't have suggestions.


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## hancox (Jun 23, 2004)

jaywdetroit said:


> Imagine how many subs D* risked losing if that was known 3 years ago when PR on the new DVR was poor. Now those folks have been assimilated to something new... and now Tivo doesn't seem so shiny.


Nail on head. I'll fully admit to being in the "die-hard" camp, but mostly out of comparison's sake, at this point. I've learned to live with the design flaws of the HR2x, and would even miss some features, if it went away.


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## jaywdetroit (Sep 21, 2006)

hancox said:


> Nail on head. I'll fully admit to being in the "die-hard" camp, but mostly out of comparison's sake, at this point. I've learned to live with the design flaws of the HR2x, and would even miss some features, if it went away.


The biggest feature I miss, and I don't think this is minor, is how well it manages recordings that are starting while you are currently watching TV. Tivo Premiere is still doing things the way Tivo did 10 years ago in this regard. Its not smart enough to use the other tuner, or ask me which tuner, etc. etc.

I don't miss paying 50 extra dollars a month though. (Directv+ATT) vs Comcast 3x.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

"jaywdetroit" said:


> The biggest feature I miss, and I don't think this is minor, is how well it manages recordings that are starting while you are currently watching TV. Tivo Premiere is still doing things the way Tivo did 10 years ago in this regard. Its not smart enough to use the other tuner, or ask me which tuner, etc. etc.


I thought TiVo always used the background tuner. What it didnt do was give you all the options when it wanted to record on both tuners. Or am I misremembering?


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

jaywdetroit said:


> The biggest feature I miss, and I don't think this is minor, is how well it manages recordings that are starting while you are currently watching TV. Tivo Premiere is still doing things the way Tivo did 10 years ago in this regard. Its not smart enough to use the other tuner, or ask me which tuner, etc. etc.
> 
> I don't miss paying 50 extra dollars a month though. (Directv+ATT) vs Comcast 3x.


I miss TiVo when I'm rewound in the buffer on live TV and recordings start on both tuners. With TiVo I would be able to watch what's left in the live buffer but with the HR2x I would lose the live buffer.

That's the one thing I miss about TiVo.

Mike


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## JBernardK (Aug 16, 2006)

tonyd79 said:


> I thought TiVo always used the background tuner. What it didnt do was give you all the options when it wanted to record on both tuners. Or am I misremembering?


On the current TiVo it always pops up a box either telling you it is going to start recording on the other tuner (if it is not in use) or the tuner you are watching. You have the option to cancel the upcoming recording. What other options would you want?


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## jaywdetroit (Sep 21, 2006)

tonyd79 said:


> I thought TiVo always used the background tuner. What it didnt do was give you all the options when it wanted to record on both tuners. Or am I misremembering?


Now you have me questioning myself. But I don't think so, it seems to me, that a "suggestion" can be actively recording on the "unused" tuner, and yet still, the Tivo will prompt me to change the channel or cancel the recording on the tuner I am watching. And I think this has happened to me while nothing is being recorded on the other tuner.

Worse, is when you are watching a recorded show, want to pull up the guide, and you are kicked out of the recorded show and taken to live TV. Then you hit the back/previous button, and you don't go back to the recorded show, you go back to whatever channel that tuner was tuned too prior.

These are the kinds of things that the HRxx got right, I believe.


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## JBernardK (Aug 16, 2006)

jaywdetroit said:


> Worse, is when you are watching a recorded show, want to pull up the guide, and you are kicked out of the recorded show and taken to live TV. Then you hit the back/previous button, and you don't go back to the recorded show, you go back to whatever channel that tuner was tuned too prior.
> 
> These are the kinds of things that the HRxx got right, I believe.


Not true with the current TiVo. The guide will overlay the recorded show you are watching.


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## jaywdetroit (Sep 21, 2006)

JBernardK said:


> Not true with the current TiVo. The guide will overlay the recorded show you are watching.


Not on my current Tivo. Are you using the HD menus?


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## JBernardK (Aug 16, 2006)

jaywdetroit said:


> Not on my current Tivo. Are you using the HD menus?


I'm using a series 3 TiVo HD with the TiVo style guide.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

jaywdetroit said:


> Not on my current Tivo. Are you using the HD menus?


Did they take a step back on this with the Premiere. The last version of Tivo software I had on the HD Tivo changed the guide so it overlaid even when watching a recording. The List still kicked you out of a recording.

If so, they are in worse shape than I thought. Makes me cringe when thinking about their code configuration management.


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## mkdtv21 (May 27, 2007)

I know most of you think that the new Tivo will be just an hr10 with mpeg 4 but when I was reading one of Directv's quarter earnings the ceo stated that the box had some apps like youtube and some other related things. So that might mean there could be some internet video capability on the box. Sorry if everyone already knew that.


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

mkdtv21 said:


> I know most of you think that the new Tivo will be just an hr10 with mpeg 4 but when I was reading one of Directv's quarter earnings the ceo stated that the box had some apps like youtube and some other related things. So that might mean there could be some internet video capability on the box. Sorry if everyone already knew that.


I am counting on that. The more I try to get used to my new HR-24, the more I want that new TiVo version to have those features I am missing very badly right now. I am having Onion News Network withdrawal symptoms.

{rant}Worse yet the silly thing got into a playback loop at the 45 minute mark of Chuck and we could not see the end of the show. Audio dropouts are frequent, and media Share just doesn't work. I find I am pressing the red button almost daily. Ack. I need my Tivo!{/rant}


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## fernly (Aug 5, 2010)

Fresh news: The USPTO has upheld Tivo's "time warp" patent, making it very likely they will succeed in their lawsuits against Dish -- with one supposes, an indirect effect on their relationship with DTV.

Google "tivo patent time warp" for several hits including cnet.


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## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

CuriousMark said:


> {rant}Worse yet the silly thing got into a playback loop at the 45 minute mark of Chuck and we could not see the end of the show. Audio dropouts are frequent, and media Share just doesn't work. I find I am pressing the red button almost daily. Ack. I need my Tivo!{/rant}


Sorry, but this sounds very much like a signal issue. I would have someone out there to check on the lines to the box or the view from the satellite. The loop to which you refer generally occurs when there is no signal for the duration of a show. For me, it generally means I am in the middle of a hurricane or hurricane-like conditions. In your case it may just be a short in the coax or a tree blocking the dish when the wind blows.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

mkdtv21 said:


> I know most of you think that the new Tivo will be just an hr10 with mpeg 4 but when I was reading one of Directv's quarter earnings the ceo stated that the box had some apps like youtube and some other related things. So that might mean there could be some internet video capability on the box. Sorry if everyone already knew that.


I think you are misunderstanding exactly which box the *DIRECTV* CEO is talking about.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

fernly said:


> Fresh news: The USPTO has upheld Tivo's "time warp" patent, making it very likely they will succeed in their lawsuits against Dish -- with one supposes, an indirect effect on their relationship with DTV.
> 
> Google "tivo patent time warp" for several hits including cnet.


Why? :shrug:

DIRECTV & Tivo have a non-litigation agreement. DIRECTV should have no adverse affect from this. If anything, it will improve DIRECTV's position, but I'm not even sure that will come into play.

I just don't think TiVo/DISH has any bearing whatsoever on a DIRECTV TiVo.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> Why? :shrug:
> 
> DIRECTV & Tivo have a non-litigation agreement. DIRECTV should have no adverse affect from this. If anything, it will improve DIRECTV's position, but I'm not even sure that will come into play.
> 
> I just don't think TiVo/DISH has any bearing whatsoever on a DIRECTV TiVo.


TiVo probably wouldn't be hit very hard if they lost the suit. Aren't they trying to get money they've never had?

Dish would be devastated if they had to shut down their HD DVRs. Good for us, tho.

Rich


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

rich584 said:


> TiVo probably wouldn't be hit very hard if they lost the suit. Aren't they trying to get money they've never had?
> 
> Dish would be devastated if they had to shut down their HD DVRs. Good for us, tho.
> 
> Rich


But, Tivo is in bad shape. They have been losing customer base for years. The money they are going after is pretty much lifeblood for them right now. And they have others in their sights beyond Dish.

If Tivo loses the case, I think they are in deep trouble. They seem to be going to a software provider business case, and they would pretty much lose a lot of what they consider intellectual property.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

tonyd79 said:


> But, Tivo is in bad shape. They have been losing customer base for years. The money they are going after is pretty much lifeblood for them right now. And they have others in their sights beyond Dish.
> 
> If Tivo loses the case, I think they are in deep trouble. They seem to be going to a software provider business case, and they would pretty much lose a lot of what they consider intellectual property.


I should have said that nothing much will change for TiVo. I'm aware of how well they've managed to screw up a good product. That's just bad management. Yes, they are in deep trouble whether they win or lose the suit.

Rich


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## fairsailing (Nov 12, 2009)

Background:

I am probably one of the few left with a DTVTiVo Series 1 (Philips DSR6000R01) as my primary receiver. After 11 years of DTV service, a growing tree will finally block LOS on my roof mounted dish next spring (I've moved it twice I think). So sometime in late winter, concurrent with a roof replacement, I will be moving my service to a SWM3 dish located on the roof of my detached garage, 40 ft from my house (nice to run only one coax and 6pr drop wire clamps come in handy). I am in the process of completing that installation now, before the real MN winter sets in.

Question:

It is my (probably foolish) hope that the stars will align and the new HD TiVo box will come out about the time my roof comes off. Based on past experience, what is the likely deployment scenario for these new boxes? (I will probably ask DTV to peak the new dish with my new HD box order.)


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

fairsailing said:


> Background:
> 
> I am probably one of the few left with a DTVTiVo Series 1 (Philips DSR6000R01) as my primary receiver. After 11 years of DTV service, a growing tree will finally block LOS on my roof mounted dish next spring (I've moved it twice I think). So sometime in late winter, concurrent with a roof replacement, I will be moving my service to a SWM3 dish located on the roof of my detached garage, 40 ft from my house (nice to run only one coax and 6pr drop wire clamps come in handy). I am in the process of completing that installation now, before the real MN winter sets in.
> 
> ...


If by late winter you mean in the March time frame *and* if the latest release projection of Q1 2011 is still accurate then it's very possible you and the new TiVo could be ready at about the same time. 

MIke


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

At this point, I'd be surprised if it took till March, but I won't be surprised about 2011.


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## fairsailing (Nov 12, 2009)

Big box and online only, or will truck rolls actually be able to deploy these? I think I bought my Series 1 at Circuit City (now defunct).


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

:shrug:


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## ajiuO (Jun 17, 2006)

Does anyone know if the new DirecTivo will be an actual piece of hardware. or will you pay a one time fee to upgrade the software on your existing box like you do with comcast... ?

someone must be beta testing it by now.


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## litzdog911 (Jun 23, 2004)

ajiuO said:


> Does anyone know if the new DirecTivo will be an actual piece of hardware. or will you pay a one time fee to upgrade the software on your existing box like you do with comcast... ?
> 
> someone must be beta testing it by now.


Almost certainly new hardware. Very unlikely that there will be any sort of "software upgrade" to the Tivo version.

It's likely being beta tested now, but those folks are sworn to secrecy.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

There were a few folks here that were invited to a trial recently .. Not sure if anyone has accepted or not.

This will not be a software "upgrade" .. You will need new hardware.


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## Scott Kocourek (Jun 13, 2009)

I wonder if it will be compatible with the Directv's MRV/SWiM/Deca or if it completely standalone.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

I'm pretty sure that SWiM can be checked on that list.


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## Scott Kocourek (Jun 13, 2009)

With so many cool things that Directv has brought to the table lately like the new 24's, MRV, and the upcoming Nomad, it will be interesting to see if the TiVo is compatible. A couple of years ago I would have been extremely excited about this but there is no way I'd want to give up MRV the way it works now.

I can't wait to see the details.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Take a guess .. you're guess is most likely right.


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## smiddy (Apr 5, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> Take a guess .. you're guess is most likely right.


As Mort would probably say, from Penguins of Madagascar, "I like guessing!"


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

gregjones said:


> Sorry, but this sounds very much like a signal issue. I would have someone out there to check on the lines to the box or the view from the satellite. The loop to which you refer generally occurs when there is no signal for the duration of a show. For me, it generally means I am in the middle of a hurricane or hurricane-like conditions. In your case it may just be a short in the coax or a tree blocking the dish when the wind blows.


Signal was good and the tech who replaced the first HR-24 did just what you suggested only the Friday before Chuck recorded. Talking with relatives who have DirecTV I was told that their DVR just does that on occasion. No trees, no wind that night, another show that recorded at the same time was fine. We played the show to about the 47 minute mark and it froze. I fast forwarded and the show jumped back and started playing from the 45 minute mark. I could do that multiple times. Skipping to tick from the beginning just left us playing from the 45 minute mark. I could not skip to end and back up to the glitch, at least I couldn't figure out a way to do so. It seems that anything past the glitch was just inaccessible. If it were a TiVo doing this I would have blamed it on a failing hard drive. I haven't given up yet, I will find a way to make this work if I can.

The unit downloaded new software the next morning, so perhaps the problem won't recur. I will keep my eyes peeled. I had not heard of an hr24-200 on here before, so this may be new model glitches.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

CuriousMark said:


> Signal was good and the tech who replaced the first HR-24 did just what you suggested only the Friday before Chuck recorded. Talking with relatives who have DirecTV I was told that their DVR just does that on occasion. No trees, no wind that night, another show that recorded at the same time was fine. We played the show to about the 47 minute mark and it froze. I fast forwarded and the show jumped back and started playing from the 45 minute mark. I could do that multiple times. Skipping to tick from the beginning just left us playing from the 45 minute mark. I could not skip to end and back up to the glitch, at least I couldn't figure out a way to do so. It seems that anything past the glitch was just inaccessible. If it were a TiVo doing this I would have blamed it on a failing hard drive. I haven't given up yet, I will find a way to make this work if I can.
> 
> The unit downloaded new software the next morning, so perhaps the problem won't recur. I will keep my eyes peeled. I had not heard of an hr24-200 on here before, so this may be new model glitches.


One other thing this could be is a signal glitch with your local. If it happens again on your local NBC check out your locals thread on AVS and see if it was a common problem OTA or perhaps only with DirecTV. Even if it was a DirecTV only glitch the station engineer can many times get this fixed. We had similar issues a couple years ago with a local ABC station. After getting the station engineer involved and 2 weeks of investigation it ended up being a faulty wire/connection in the local uplink center. Fixed that cable and all was fixed. No way any of us or even DirecTV would have ever figured that out. Let the station engineers do their job and they have much better contacts at DirecTV then any of us do.  Of course this assumes the local station even cares, many do not unfortunately.

Again, just a possible cause.


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

bonscott87 said:


> If it happens again on your local NBC check out your locals thread on AVS and see if it was a common problem OTA or perhaps only with DirecTV. Even if it was a DirecTV only glitch the station engineer can many times get this fixed. We had similar issues a couple years ago with a local ABC station. After getting the station engineer involved and 2 weeks of investigation it ended up being a faulty wire/connection in the local uplink center. Fixed that cable and all was fixed.


Thanks, that is very helpful and I will follow up on it.
I don't have OTA, so at least I can rule that path out. I will check with the relatives and see if their experience only occurs on certain channels which could also help narrow this.

Thank you again for the helpful feedback.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

CuriousMark said:


> Thanks, that is very helpful and I will follow up on it.
> I don't have OTA, so at least I can rule that path out. I will check with the relatives and see if their experience only occurs on certain channels which could also help narrow this.
> 
> Thank you again for the helpful feedback.


No problem. I should clarify what I mean by OTA. If there was a problem with the signal OTA then that would be seen on DirecTV as well since that is usually where they get the signal from before uplinking to the sats. So thus my suggestion to check out AVS and your local area's thread because if the problem was also seen OTA then that's the problem right there, end of troubleshooting, station problem for sure. Also want to see if the problem was on local cable as well because if it wast then it may be a problem with the feed the station gives to cable/DirecTV. Lastly if it's only DirecTV then now we know for sure.

If your relatives have the problem on non local stations then that's most likely a hardware or signal problem.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

DirecTiVo "delayed again"...


mdutch said:


> [http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8183438#post8183438] *Got this today from TivoBeta:
> *"Thanks for your interest in the DirecTV/TiVo DVR. However, it has been delayed again and hope to be released in 2011."
> 
> No joy.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

2011 is old news .. It's the "when" in 2011 that is elusive .. I think January is possible.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

Doug Brott said:


> 2011 is old news .. It's the "when" in 2011 that is elusive .. I think January is possible.


I think the news is that TiVo only hopes to roll it out in 2011.

Prior to this email from TiVoBeta, the official line was that it was coming out this December or January; now they "hope" it'll appear by December 2011.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

Syzygy said:


> I think the news is that TiVo only hopes to roll it out in 2011.
> 
> Prior to this email from TiVoBeta, the official line was that it was coming out this December or January; now they "hope" it'll appear by December 2011.


The official line has been 2011 for some time now.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> I think the news is that TiVo only hopes to roll it out in 2011.
> 
> Prior to this email from TiVoBeta, the official line was that it was coming out this December or January; now they "hope" it'll appear by December 2011.


Based on what little I do know (and it is very little, BTW) .. Early 2011 seems very likely. January seems possible (perhaps even better than 50%).

2010 seems like .. no chance.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> Based on what little I do know (and it is very little, BTW) .. Early 2011 seems very likely. January seems possible (perhaps even better than 50%).
> 
> 2010 seems like .. no chance.


One of the newsletters I subscribe to seemed to have "inside info" and their prediction ties in with yours with the exception that, I think, they said 1st quarter 2011. They totally discounted the idea of it being released in 2010.

I gotta start saving those letters for links.

Rich


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## longshot (Jul 16, 2003)

I have some insider knowledge that while I can't reveal anything specific I can tell you that Tivo has not even started the field beta testing yet so I wouldn't count on seeing it in any earlier than the next 3-6 months at best.

As always take it with a grain of salt


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## redhot (Oct 23, 2009)

Hopefully some light appears at the end of the Tivo tunnel in Vegas and the CES.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

redhot said:


> Hopefully some light appears at the end of the Tivo tunnel in Vegas and the CES.


There is plenty of conflicting information right now on the timeline for a release.

Those of us going to CES in January will certainly keep our eyes and ears open for any additional information on this topic.

If any new DirecTV HD Tivobox is going to be released the first half of 2011 some time, early info on it should be around by January's CES.


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

If TiVo is a no show at CES (like they basically were this year), can we finally assume this project is DOA?


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

longshot said:


> I have some insider knowledge that while I can't reveal anything specific I can tell you that Tivo has not even started the field beta testing yet so I wouldn't count on seeing it in any earlier than the next 3-6 months at best.
> 
> As always take it with a grain of salt


That ties in with what I've been reading. I wonder if we'll ever see it?

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

ATARI said:


> If TiVo is a no show at CES (like they basically were this year), can we finally assume this project is DOA?


That wouldn't surprise me. I can't imagine them making a TiVo that would be better than the new HRs. (Or the 20-700s, sorry, I just couldn't help myself.)

Rich


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Assuming TiVo (the company) is going to CES this year, I'm about 99.9% certain that TiVo (the DIRECTV device) will be along for the ride.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Heck, I'm thinking the new DIRECTV TiVo will be available perhaps as early as late January.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Doug Brott said:


> Assuming TiVo (the company) is going to CES this year, I'm about 99.9% certain that TiVo (the DIRECTV device) will be along for the ride.





Doug Brott said:


> Heck, I'm thinking the new DIRECTV TiVo will be available perhaps as early as late January.


TiVo will be at CES - they have several meeting rooms booked (not a booth) - just like last year.

I'm guessing that the CES will be the first place any signs of the new DirecTV unit will surface.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> TiVo will be at CES - they have several meeting rooms booked (not a booth) - just like last year.
> 
> I'm guessing that the CES will be the first place any signs of the new DirecTV unit will surface.


But if it's true that they haven't even started beta testing...

Rich


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

rich584 said:


> But if it's true that they haven't even started beta testing...
> 
> Rich


No one is sure about that part either...what is most likely is that TiVo themselves will do a round of beta testing. What happens after that (DirecTV beta/filed/other tests) is unknown.

Obviously the timing of all this is based on the finalization of the DirecTV Tivobox code itself. I'd expect testing thereafter to take some time, as its all new.

None of that precludes having a prototype at CES - those things happen there all the time.


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

fairsailing said:


> Big box and online only, or will truck rolls actually be able to deploy these? I think I bought my Series 1 at Circuit City (now defunct).


That actually is an interesitng question given that TiVo is sold in big boxes like BB, but DirecTV has pulled out of them.

I do wonder the TiVo version will be sold at retail?


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> No one is sure about that part either...what is most likely is that TiVo themselves will do a round of beta testing. What happens after that (DirecTV beta/filed/other tests) is unknown.
> 
> Obviously the timing of all this is based on the finalization of the DirecTV Tivobox code itself. I'd expect testing thereafter to take some time, as its all new.
> 
> None of that precludes having a prototype at CES - those things happen there all the time.


Will TiVo permit CE testing?

Rich


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

rich584 said:


> Will TiVo permit CE testing?
> 
> Rich


Where have you been? TiVo is doing their own beta testing on this one.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> Where have you been? TiVo is doing their own beta testing on this one.


I've been here in NJ. I should have said: Once the TiVos come out to the public will they be part of the CE program?

Rich


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

rich584 said:


> I've been here in NJ. I should have said: Once the TiVos come out to the public will they be part of the CE program?
> 
> Rich


Doubt it. Tivo always does closed betas. Complete with NDA.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

rich584 said:


> Once the TiVos come out to the public will they be part of the CE program?


Given how little control they would seem to have over how the hardware might be configured and installed and that it might change radically during the course of testing (changing switchgear, networking schemes, away from home use), I doubt they would be excited about it.

The more variables there are, the more difficult the problems can be to isolate.

The Comcast public trials were limited to distinct cable systems where most everything was under control: one standard cable feed coming in and the various outputs going out. In most cases, I'd guess that even the Internet connection (if any) was under the Comcast's control.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

harsh, was there a point to that post?

As a matter of record, I don't think DIRECTV has ever done a CE on a product that was already released. That is the most telling thing.

And, since we're talking about CE in the non-CE forum .. well .. Time to stop as that's against forum rules.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

harsh said:


> Given how little control they would seem to have over how the hardware might be configured and installed and that it might change radically during the course of testing (changing switchgear, networking schemes, away from home use), I doubt they would be excited about it.
> 
> The more variables there are, the more difficult the problems can be to isolate.
> 
> The Comcast public trials were limited to distinct cable systems where most everything was under control: one standard cable feed coming in and the various outputs going out. In most cases, I'd guess that even the Internet connection (if any) was under the Comcast's control.


1. Why all the nonsense? Tivo never did public betas.

2. A controlled release of a Comcast Tivo was NOT a beta.

Tivo does not engage in CE style efforts. But then, again, what do you know about how CE works. You are not a potential CE participant.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> harsh, was there a point to that post?
> 
> As a matter of record, I don't think DIRECTV has ever done a CE on a product that was already released. That is the most telling thing.
> 
> And, since we're talking about CE in the non-CE forum .. well .. Time to stop as that's against forum rules.


Doug, I think you meant Tivo, not DirecTV.

As to the last point. Yessir.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

The main point I'm trying to make is that this is a TiVo product .. TiVo will be driving any beta.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

tonyd79 said:


> 2. A controlled release of a Comcast Tivo was NOT a beta.


Leaving aside the confusion about the differences between alpha, beta, gamma, gold, etc. testing, what would you call the Comcast TiVo "trials"? A "controlled" market expansion shouldn't take four years to expand beyond a relatively small geographical area.

Looking back, it seems pretty obvious that the CableCARD requirement ordered by the FCC in 2007 (and reversed last Thursday) was likely a leading cause of having to go back to the drawing boards with the Comcast TiVo STB and configure it to employ CableCARD technology.

DIRECTV would appear to bring no such fundamental platform changes.


----------



## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

"harsh" said:


> Leaving aside the confusion about the differences between alpha, beta, gamma, gold, etc. testing, what would you call the Comcast TiVo "trials"? A "controlled" market expansion shouldn't take four years to expand beyond a relatively small geographical area.


I would call it a failure. Not a testing failure as much as a customer failure. It was buggy enough and enough of a kludge that no one wanted it.

They decided to not roll it out. Period. That is not a beta. That is a market test. Just like when McDonalds test markets a sandwich at limited locations. They aren't testing if they can make it. They are testing if it will sell. Comcast TiVo did not.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

tonyd79 said:


> Doubt it. Tivo always does closed betas. Complete with NDA.


Depends on what you mean by "closed." The very first TiVo had a semi-public beta (testing tentative software releases on boxes that the beta testers had already bought) with a private mailserver that morphed into a private section of the TiVoCommunity forum (after TiVoCommunity came into existence). It was a lot of fun exchanging views and experiences with the other beta testers. There was an NDA.

The biggest difference between TiVo's semi-public beta and D*'s CE program is that you could call TiVo and talk to "beta-test managers" and even to TiVo programmers.


----------



## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Syzygy said:


> The biggest difference between TiVo's semi-public beta and D*'s CE program is that you could call TiVo and talk to "beta-test managers" and even to TiVo programmers.


Of course back then Tivo wasn't much more then a dozen guys programming in a garage somewhere.  Not hard to talk to someone back then. They were also much closer to their userbase as well which is really no longer the case. Funny how now DirecTV which dwarf's the size of Tivo has more intimate contact with it's userbase then does Tivo.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

bonscott87 said:


> Of course back then Tivo wasn't much more then a dozen guys programming in a garage somewhere.  Not hard to talk to someone back then. They were also much closer to their userbase as well which is really no longer the case. Funny how now DirecTV which dwarf's the size of Tivo has more intimate contact with it's userbase then does Tivo.


All quite true.

TiVo has really lost touch with its users. With the Consumer Electronic Show less than 90 days away...it will be interesting to see what actually surfaces on this long-delayed (by TiVo) HD DVR.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> All quite true.
> 
> TiVo has really lost touch with its users. With the Consumer Electronic Show less than 90 days away...it will be interesting to see what actually surfaces on this long-delayed (by TiVo) HD DVR.


One would get the idea that the less than 90 day wait for the CES might be more than you can stand. Anticipation is a wonderful thing, no? 

Rich


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

bonscott87 said:


> Of course back then Tivo ... were also much closer to their userbase as well which is really no longer the case. Funny how now DirecTV, which dwarfs the size of Tivo, has *more intimate contact* with its userbase than does Tivo.


More intimate contact? Maybe with you they have intimate contact, but certainly not with me...

 "Intimate contact" has me thinking about all the times I've gotten shafted by HR21 bugs and by DirecTV's intentional search-result pollution.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> More intimate contact? Maybe with you they have intimate contact, but certainly not with me...
> 
> "Intimate contact" has me thinking about all the times I've gotten shafted by HR21 bugs and by DirecTV's intentional search-result pollution.


You can debate the level of intimacy, but certainly there are DIRECTV employees that frequent DBSTalk.com much like TiVo employees frequented TiVoCommunity in years past. The rules of engagement are not the same between the two companies, but there definitely is back and forth.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

"Syzygy" said:


> "Intimate contact" has me thinking about all the times I've gotten shafted by HR21 bugs and by DirecTV's intentional search-result pollution.


Such hate. Dude, it's only TV. Shafted?


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

tonyd79 said:


> Such hate. Dude, it's only TV. Shafted?


Yes. Shafted.

And it's not hate; it's more like contempt.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Just the CE program alone shows a lot of involvement of DirecTV with the community at large. Tivo has very much cut themselves off from the community in recent years. I think it all started when Tivorevelutionary (dang, can't even remember his handle now after all these years) left.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> Yes. Shafted.
> 
> And it's not hate; it's more like contempt.


Okay, now I know to pretty much ignore your statements since you are a bit over the top.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> All quite true.
> 
> TiVo has really lost touch with its users. With the Consumer Electronic Show less than 90 days away...it will be interesting to see what actually surfaces on this long-delayed (by TiVo) HD DVR.


Yes, our last visit to their off site room yielded exactly nothing except a TIVO DOLL and a shirt!!!

Hopefully, there will be something more than VAPORWARE!!!

Can't wait to board the plane and fly to Lost Wages, I mean Las Vegas in January!!! :lol:


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

bonscott87 said:


> Just the CE program alone shows a lot of involvement of DirecTV with the community at large. Tivo has very much cut themselves off from the community in recent years. I think it all started when Tivorevelutionary (dang, can't even remember his handle now after all these years) left.


You're referring to Richard Bullwinkle (yes, that's his real name); his handle was TiVolutionary (and his email address was [email protected]).

I miss Richard too.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Syzygy said:


> You're referring to Richard Bullwinkle (yes, that's his real name); his handle was TiVolutionary (and his email address was [email protected]).
> 
> I miss Richard too.


Yep, that's him. Had many a good conversation with him that helped track down many a bug. I also remember him having a live web cam in his office (one of the first!). Good old days. When Richard left it was the beginning of the end of Tivo being involved and actually listening to the community.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Syzygy said:


> Yes. Shafted.
> 
> And it's not hate; it's more like contempt.


The online dictionary I use defines contempt as:

The feeling or attitude of regarding someone *or something* as *inferior*, base, or worthless; scorn.

That's pretty much how I feel about most of the 21 series of HRs. I could live with 21-700s of 21-200s if I had nothing to compare them to, but the rest of them...yeah, contempt is a pretty good word.

Rich


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Syzygy said:


> Yes. Shafted.
> 
> And it's not hate; it's more like contempt.


...and yet....there are reams of folks who simply don't share the issues, problems, or contempt others have with their HD DVRs. Folks having thousands of HD viewing hours enjoyed for years and years without the "end of the world" turmoil.

It makes people wonder why those who have such strong emotional negative equity in being dis-satisfied don't migrate to the "perfect provider" - whoever that may be.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> ...and yet....there are reams of folks who simply don't share the issues, problems, or contempt others have with their HD DVRs. Folks having thousands of HD viewing hours enjoyed for years and years without the "end of the world" turmoil.
> 
> It makes people wonder why those who have such strong emotional negative equity in being dis-satisfied don't migrate to the "perfect provider" - whoever that may be.


Not busting chops here, but what does "negative equity" mean? I can't find anything else but: the state of holding a property the value of which is less than the amount of mortgage still unpaid. That's the first time I've ever seen that phrase applied to a non-financial statement. Just curious, not looking for an argument. Well, not much of an argument. 

Rich


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

rich584 said:


> Not busting chops here, but what does "negative equity" mean? I can't find anything else but: the state of holding a property the value of which is less than the amount of mortgage still unpaid. That's the first time I've ever seen that phrase applied to a non-financial statement. Just curious, not looking for an argument. Well, not much of an argument.
> 
> Rich


OK...its fine to split hairs....I said strong *emotional* negative equity. In a posting thesaurus...it means...overly grumpy... :lol:


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Time to move on to a new topic, please. Talk about the TiVo, not about the Tivotees.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> OK...its fine to split hairs....I said strong *emotional* negative equity. In a posting thesaurus...it means...overly grumpy... :lol:


OK, what's a posting thesaurus? Link, please. I've never seen one.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Time to move on to a new topic, please. Talk about the TiVo, not about the Tivotees.


Didn't see your post before I wrote my last post, sorry.

Rich


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Regardless of past experiences...there is clearly an interest in what will come as a result of the release of a new DirecTV HD Tivo DVR.

From curiosity to strong interest...there is a following here.

Until we learn more either from published information from Tivo, or else direct information/viewing...we're all pretty much speculating.

It's all good, when it comes to input.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Regardless of past experiences...there is clearly an interest in what will come as a result of the release of a new DirecTV HD Tivo DVR.
> 
> From curiosity to strong interest...there is a following here.
> 
> ...


I just can't believe it's gonna be good enough to "knock my socks off". That's what it would take for me to switch to a TiVo, not that I won't get one and give it a try, but I like my HRs and my TiVo experience wasn't all that great before the HRs came out. Doesn't seem like a well run company either. Hard to believe they lost so many subs over the last few years.

Rich


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Well, I was a TIVOHOLIC but now with my 7 Directv HR2Xs working so Well and with WHDVR working Fantastic I don't even think about this New Directivo Unit coming out but it would have to have an awful lot of Bells and Whistles to get me to buy one as my units are doing everything I could possible want and more.

And we have NOMAD coming soon and that will be the Icing On The Cake!!!


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

rich584 said:


> I just can't believe it's gonna be good enough to "knock my socks off". That's what it would take for me to switch to a TiVo, not that I won't get one and give it a try, but I like my HRs and my TiVo experience wasn't all that great before the HRs came out. Doesn't seem like a well run company either. Hard to believe they lost so many subs over the last few years.
> 
> Rich


If you liked the HR10-250 interface, then you will probably like the new interface. Best I can tell it will be the same thing.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

rich584 said:


> I just can't believe it's gonna be good enough to "knock my socks off". That's what it would take for me to switch to a TiVo, not that I won't get one and give it a try, but I like my HRs and my TiVo experience wasn't all that great before the HRs came out. Rich





Doug Brott said:


> If you liked the HR10-250 interface, then you will probably like the new interface. Best I can tell it will be the same thing.


I'm sure the new unit will be embraced (to varying degrees) by die-hard TiVo fans, and likely have some things preferred to those users. Otherwise, there would be no purpose whatsoever to even release such a unit.

That said, based on the evolution and capabilities of today's DirecTV HD DVR's, I'm anticipating the "WOW Factor" timeframe has come and gone for mainstream adoption.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> If you liked the HR10-250 interface, then you will probably like the new interface. Best I can tell it will be the same thing.


Never had one. After all the problems I had with my SD TiVos I wasn't gonna spring for an HD one that cost a small fortune. Not that I didn't have problems with my first "few" HRs. 

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

richierich said:


> Well, I was a TIVOHOLIC but now with my 7 Directv HR2Xs working so Well and with WHDVR working Fantastic I don't even think about this New Directivo Unit coming out but it would have to have an awful lot of Bells and Whistles to get me to buy one as my units are doing everything I could possible want and more.
> 
> And we have NOMAD coming soon and that will be the Icing On The Cake!!!


You're reading my mind again!!!

Rich


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

richierich said:


> Well, I was a TIVOHOLIC but now with my 7 Directv HR2Xs working so Well and with WHDVR working Fantastic I don't even think about this New Directivo Unit coming out but it would have to have an awful lot of Bells and Whistles to get me to buy one as my units are doing everything I could possible want and more.
> 
> And we have NOMAD coming soon and that will be the Icing On The Cake!!!


In the same situation here.

HR2x with whole-home has been fabulous, with any-to-any viewing from the 7 TV's in the home.

Am curious to play with the new DirecTiVo, just to evaluate any new technology on DirecTV, but the HR2x is almost perfect now (for this household). Could now never live without MRV streaming.

And if they add Nomad, and some DVR controls over IP, oh boy, the future could be amazing.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Sixto said:


> In the same situation here.
> 
> HR2x with whole-home has been fabulous, with any-to-any viewing from the 7 TV's in the home.
> 
> ...


EXACTLY!!! I think it has taken them so long (TOO LONG) to come out with this Puppy that I am now so CONTENT with my 7 HR2X DVRs with WHDVR SERVICE that I don't even think about the new Directivo DVR and in fact this has been the first I have even looked at this Thread in months and I mean MONTHS!!! :lol:

Can't wait until NOMAD Debuts!!!


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

Sixto said:


> Am curious to play with the new DirecTiVo, just to evaluate any new technology on DirecTV, but the HR2x is almost perfect now (for this household). Could now never live without MRV streaming...


Seems like you're going to get a free loaner DirecTiVo - cuz I don't think _I'd _be allowed to add one on a trial basis and then send it back. Are you a "tester" of all new DirecTV hardware?


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

rich584 said:


> I just can't believe it's gonna be good enough to "knock my socks off". That's what it would take for me to switch to a TiVo, not that I won't get one and give it a try, but I like my HRs and my TiVo experience wasn't all that great before the HRs came out.


As a TiVo series 2 user switching to Hi Def and WHDVR while I wait for the TiVo to come out I have to say my experience is the opposite. The HR24 and H24 combo leaves me missing features I have come to expect. Now I will admit that RVU, TVAPPS, and NOMAD when they get done and work well will begin to bring parity, but until then, I feel like I have fallen back into the TiVo Series 1 world.

I have manage to make the best of it by pushing the HR24 off on my wife, and setting the H24 to be driven by my S2 TiVo. I get less HD that way, but it is a fair trade to keep the feature and performance I was missing. Also the TiVo does TiVo Togo, TiVo to Come back, and web video podcast downloads, all of which are just not there with DTV yet.

I also find the trick play of streamed content to be clunky with just enough delay to make fast forwarding just a little annoying. It works well enough, and is OK on the HR24 directly. There is room for improvement though.

My prior complaints about Music and Photos on the HR24 were also fixed by my switching to use of the H24. That is one area where the H24 is better than TiVo with TiVo Desktop, but it is not as good as TiVo with Harmonium. I suppose RVU will allow that to become equivalent some day.

Now if the New TiVo is limited to the same feature set as my H24/HR24, it will be a fail. But if it keeps most of the networking features that don't directly compete with VOD and PPV, then it will easily be worth switching to. Is that "knock your socks" off better. Not for me. However it would be a significant and worthwhile improvement.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Sixto said:


> Am curious to play with the new DirecTiVo, just to evaluate any new technology on DirecTV, but the HR2x is almost perfect now (for this household). Could now never live without MRV streaming.


Can you have Directv also send me one so I can Test and Evaluate it as I was one of the First Persons to receive an HR10-250 way back when???


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Syzygy said:


> Seems like you're going to get a free loaner DirecTiVo - cuz I don't think _I'd _be allowed to add one on a trial basis and then send it back. Are you a "tester" of all new DirecTV hardware?





richierich said:


> Can you have Directv also send me one so I can Test and Evaluate it as I was one of the First Persons to receive an HR10-250 way back when???


No inside info here, or access to any hardware.

Just interested to play with one, or watch others play with one (after release). 

P.S. I did apply to the TiVo beta program, but didn't get selected.


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## jaywdetroit (Sep 21, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> If you liked the HR10-250 interface, then you will probably like the new interface. Best I can tell it will be the same thing.


Unbelievable. They aren't even going to tweak it to modernize it a bit? Isn't like 10 years old?


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

"jaywdetroit" said:


> Unbelievable. They aren't even going to tweak it to modernize it a bit? Isn't like 10 years old?


Well. They just did their first update with the Premiere and that is not complete. They've used the same basic GUI for all TiVos.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

jaywdetroit said:


> Unbelievable. They aren't even going to tweak it to modernize it a bit? Isn't like 10 years old?


I guess that depends on how you qualify a "tweak" .. I'm sure there will be some minor adjustments, but I'm not looking for anything earth shattering.


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## Groundhog45 (Nov 10, 2005)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Regardless of past experiences...there is clearly an interest in what will come as a result of the release of a new DirecTV HD Tivo DVR.
> 
> From curiosity to strong interest...there is a following here.
> 
> ...


I'm interested in seeing how it plays out but I've been pretty satisfied with the HR2x boxes lately, especially with MRV, so the Tivo will have to be a big improvement to trigger a switch.



Doug Brott said:


> If you liked the HR10-250 interface, then you will probably like the new interface. Best I can tell it will be the same thing.


I would expect some modernization after all this time. Haven't seen the latest HD Tivo, however.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

From my experience with HD TiVo (cause I don't expect the Premiere GUI at all), the base will be the same with a bit more 3D look and some general polishing but nothing that will make anyone say, "Gee, that's spiffy. "


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> I guess that depends on how you qualify a "tweak" .. I'm sure there will be some minor adjustments, but I'm not looking for anything earth shattering.


Earth shattering, at this point, will just be delivering the product.


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## jbaron76 (Mar 1, 2007)

CuriousMark said:


> As a TiVo series 2 user switching to Hi Def and WHDVR while I wait for the TiVo to come out I have to say my experience is the opposite. The HR24 and H24 combo leaves me missing features I have come to expect. Now I will admit that RVU, TVAPPS, and NOMAD when they get done and work well will begin to bring parity, but until then, I feel like I have fallen back into the TiVo Series 1 world.
> 
> I have manage to make the best of it by pushing the HR24 off on my wife, and setting the H24 to be driven by my S2 TiVo. I get less HD that way, but it is a fair trade to keep the feature and performance I was missing. Also the TiVo does TiVo Togo, TiVo to Come back, and web video podcast downloads, all of which are just not there with DTV yet.
> 
> ...


This is how I feel as well. I still have an SD Series 2 DirecTivo box and as far as responsiveness and speed it runs circles around my HR22 and R15 boxes. The HR22 has improved over the last year and a half that I've owned it, but it is still extremely sluggish. There are some great features that have come about with the HR units, but the sluggishness has really been a problem for me.

I am eagerly awaiting the arrival of the new TiVo!


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

jbaron76 said:


> This is how I feel as well. I still have an SD Series 2 DirecTivo box and as far as responsiveness and speed it runs circles around my HR22 and R15 boxes. The HR22 has improved over the last year and a half that I've owned it, but it is still extremely sluggish. There are some great features that have come about with the HR units, but the sluggishness has really been a problem for me.
> 
> I am eagerly awaiting the arrival of the new TiVo!


The 22-100 is sluggish. Get a HR24 and you'll see some speed. Don't base your opinion on that 22-100, even the 20-700s are almost as fast as the 24s.

Rich


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## longshot (Jul 16, 2003)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> No one is sure about that part either...what is most likely is that TiVo themselves will do a round of beta testing. What happens after that (DirecTV beta/filed/other tests) is unknown.
> 
> Obviously the timing of all this is based on the finalization of the DirecTV Tivobox code itself. I'd expect testing thereafter to take some time, as its all new.
> 
> None of that precludes having a prototype at CES - those things happen there all the time.


Tivo will be doing their own BETA at first and when they are done it will be turned over to DirecTV and I don't know if they will be doing a beta test or not.

As always take it with a grain of salt


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Certainly, I expect this device to be sold through DIRECTV (there may be third party retailers as well). DIRECTV is charged with marketing the device once it becomes ready.


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## jbaron76 (Mar 1, 2007)

rich584 said:


> The 22-100 is sluggish. Get a HR24 and you'll see some speed. Don't base your opinion on that 22-100, even the 20-700s are almost as fast as the 24s.
> 
> Rich


You are absolutely correct about the 22-100. The problem is that D* won't let me upgrade to an HR-24 unless I pay for it. I already paid money for this box that barely functions and I feel that an upgrade to the latest box, that actually meets the minimum hardware requirements for the software, should be provided at no charge. I will, however, gladly pay money for a TiVo box when it is released!


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

I suspect we are in the home stretch prior to a new DirecTV HD Tivobox release...likely 1Q 2011. Yup - that makes it very, very late.

I have my own speculation on the delays, and most of it does not revolve around blaming anyone involved. My guess is that requirements were changed during the design/development stages, leading to change-related project elongation.

In any case...the timing of the CES this year is conveniently around the time one would think we might hear something more definitive about this new device and its forthcoming release. 

As one of a number of DBSTalkers who will be onsite at CES, its fair to assume that attempts will be made by one or more of us to seek information (if available), and share as best we can. 

I don't expect much more to be known earlier than that, at least no more than what has already been publicly disclosed.


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## Rockermann (Aug 9, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> If you liked the HR10-250 interface, then you will probably like the new interface. Best I can tell it will be the same thing.


Excellent! No need to mess with perfection.


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## Rockermann (Aug 9, 2007)

FWIW... I'm one of those TIVO diehards and will be on the phone the moment the new DirecTivo is announced to order mine. I'm definitely looking forward to this late Christmas present.

Edit... I should also state, that if MRV is not a feature, I might have to reconsider. So, here's hoping MRV is included.


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## joed32 (Jul 27, 2006)

Rockermann said:


> FWIW... I'm one of those TIVO diehards and will be on the phone the moment the new DirecTivo is announced to order mine. I'm definitely looking forward to this late Christmas present.
> 
> Edit... I should also state, that if MRV is not a feature, I might have to reconsider. So, here's hoping MRV is included.


Since I've had MRV, I wouldn't want to be without it.


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## Rockermann (Aug 9, 2007)

joed32 said:


> Since I've had MRV, I wouldn't want to be without it.


Yup, it's a killer app within an app. It would be very difficult to go back to the old way, that's for sure.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Rockermann said:


> I should also state, that if MRV is not a feature, I might have to reconsider. So, here's hoping MRV is included.


I have to Concur Wholeheartedly!!! I am so Happy with my HR2Xs and WHDVR Service and all of my Storage Capacity that This Puppy Would Really Have To Shine Like The Sun For Me To Even Consider It!!!

My Directv DVRs do almost everything that I want so why add another Tivo device that now I have to learn all over again.

Also, with Nomad on the way It would really have to be something out of this world.


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## Rockermann (Aug 9, 2007)

richierich said:


> ...It would really have to be something out of this world.


For me, it just has to be what it used to be with the HR10-250 and have MRV. If so, I'll switch in a heartbeat even if there is a surcharge.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Rockermann said:


> For me, it just has to be what it used to be with the HR10-250 and have MRV. If so, I'll switch in a heartbeat even if there is a surcharge.


I suspect we'll have some answers and know more in the next 90 days or so. CES is only 70 days away, and the overall 1Q 2010 soon too.


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## ffemtreed (Jan 30, 2008)

If it has a list style guide, MRV and one touch recording i'll be all over it.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

I doubt that it will have "MRV" but we will see soon when we get to 2011 CES!!!


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

richierich said:


> I doubt that it will have "MRV" but we will see soon when we get to 2011 CES!!!


I would think it would at least have to have the basic functionality of the current HD DVRs. How the heck would TiVo make any money if their HD DVR is a down grade from the HR2x.

IMHO, it will do MRV...but I've been wrong before. :grin:

Mike


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

MicroBeta said:


> I would think it would at least have to have the basic functionality of the current HD DVRs. How the heck would TiVo make any money if their HD DVR is a down grade from the HR2x.
> 
> IMHO, it will do MRV...but I've been wrong before. :grin:
> 
> Mike


I just don't know if they have had enough time to add "MRV" and adequately Test it. Of course it is taking Forever to Roll This Puppy out so who knows???


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

richierich said:


> I just don't know if they have had enough time to add "MRV" and adequately Test it. Of course it is taking Forever to Roll This Puppy out so who knows???


Well if they are going to charge an additional fee (or a slightly higher DVR fee) then it can't be a down-grade from the HR2x. It seems, to me at least, that MRV is a must have....who knows for sure? 

If we're talkin' about Q1 2011 somebody must know but they're not sayin'...yet. :grin:

Mike


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## Scott Kocourek (Jun 13, 2009)

If the Tivo had mrv compatibility with the hr's it would be interesting to see how the lists show up on each. Also I remember the ff button going back to play after the third press on the tivo unit. Seems like there may be even more incompatibility.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

I wouldn't hold my breath on HR2x to TiVo MRV.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> I wouldn't hold my breath on HR2x to TiVo MRV.


Let's see, Hypothetically: I can a TiVo, or, I can have MRV, but, not both. I'll take MRV. 

If that's the case...IMHO, TiVo would be dead in the water.

Mike


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> I wouldn't hold my breath on HR2x to TiVo MRV.


I would assume that the way MRV works is so tied to the core functionality of the DirecTV DVRs that bringing a Tivo into the mix would be near to impossible. There are clearly functions happening on both the host and client DVR since they lock down the number of streams they can see. It is not just "mounting" the data from the host DVR to the client and there is no apparent buffer locally as it works the same way on a non-DVR.

Since it does work with a non-DVR client, I am willing to bet the majority of the tasks are handled at the host DVR and the client is a thin client handling only IO to the screen and from the remote.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

Doug Brott said:


> I wouldn't hold my breath on HR2x to TiVo MRV.


Doug, I assume you meant probably no HR2x-to-TiVo MRV, but maybe TiVo-to-TiVo MRV. Or is that even better than just "maybe"? (I'd hope so.)

[edit] Or merely TiVo-to-TiVo copy, as is done with current cable-TiVos, and which avoids the sluggish-trick-play problem.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Doug Brott said:


> I wouldn't hold my breath on HR2x to TiVo MRV.


That is my sentiment exactly. Probably too complicated with two different platforms and data streams and different software, just can't happen especially in the time frame TiVo has been given.

And if I can have my WHDVR (MRV) then I will just choose to stay with my 7 HR2Xs and be a Happy Camper. And with Nomad probably coming within 30 days that would make it a No Brainer!!!:lol:


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## Rockermann (Aug 9, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> I wouldn't hold my breath on HR2x to TiVo MRV.


Well, that will be quite disappointing if it turns out to be the case. I guess we'll have to wait and see.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Well, I said it along time ago that I thought it would be very difficult for TiVo to put all of their Functionality onto a Directv Platform and resolve all of the issues and then include WHDVR (MRV) and get it all tested within the timeframe that has been allotted to them.

So some things will be missing from the Directivo Box such as WHDVR (MRV) and I would just Prefer to keep my HR2X DVRs with all of their Functionality and definitely do not want to miss out on MRV as I have waited 4 years for it's arrival.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

richierich said:


> That is my sentiment exactly. Probably too complicated with two different platforms and data streams and different software, just can't happen especially in the time frame TiVo has been given.
> 
> And if I can have my WHDVR (MRV) then I will just choose to stay with my 7 HR2Xs and be a Happy Camper. And with Nomad probably coming within 30 days that would make it a No Brainer!!!:lol:


I completely agree. With the exception of a couple of die-hard TiVo fans, this DVR seems to be a non-starter.

Mike


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

MicroBeta said:


> I completely agree. With the exception of a couple of die-hard TiVo fans, this DVR seems to be a non-starter.
> 
> Mike


But I can't imagine what it would have other than the Cute TiVo GUI that I would want let alone lose MRV!!! 

And I Was One Of Those Die Hard TiVotees until Directv got these HR2Xs working better and then added MRV. Come on Nomad!!!


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Syzygy said:


> Doug, I assume you meant probably no HR2x-to-TiVo MRV, but maybe TiVo-to-TiVo MRV. Or is that even better than just "maybe"? (I'd hope so.)
> 
> [edit] Or merely TiVo-to-TiVo copy, as is done with current cable-TiVos, and which avoids the sluggish-trick-play problem.


I think there is about a 0% chance of this new DirecTivo being able to "talk" with stand alone Tivo's. Zero. The old DirecTivo's didn't either and only did with hacks. You can bet big bucks this new box is being designed to not be hackable and certainly not part of the Tivo "echosystem".

HR2x to DirecTivo MRV...we just don't know. Bad news if it doesn't.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

bonscott87 said:


> HR2x to DirecTivo MRV...we just don't know. Bad news if it doesn't.


I've got some Throw Away Money To Bet That It Doesn't Do HR2X to Directivo MRV!!! Ain't gonna happen any time soon.:lol:


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## Rockermann (Aug 9, 2007)

bonscott87 said:


> ...HR2x to DirecTivo MRV...we just don't know. Bad news if it doesn't.


Right.. I think I misread earlier. That's my concern. As long as the new DirecTivo can MRV with existing HR2x, I'll be happy. If it only does DirecTivo to DirecTivo for MRV, then I guess I have to swap out both of my DVRs. That wouldn't be that bad of a proposition for me if it comes to that.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Rockermann said:


> If it only does DirecTivo to DirecTivo for MRV, then I guess I have to swap out both of my DVRs. That wouldn't be that bad of a proposition for me if it comes to that.


Ain't it Nice To Have Lots Of Money??? :hurah:


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

Rockermann said:


> Right.. I think I misread earlier. That's my concern. As long as the new DirecTivo can MRV with existing HR2x, I'll be happy. If it only does DirecTivo to DirecTivo for MRV, then I guess I have to swap out both of my DVRs. That wouldn't be that bad of a proposition for me if it comes to that.


That is a trade that I would also be willing to make. So long as I can watch from either DVR in both rooms, I will be a happy camper.


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## Rockermann (Aug 9, 2007)

richierich said:


> Ain't it Nice To Have Lots Of Money???


Not the case here at all. Just that some things in life are worth splurging for.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

CuriousMark said:


> So long as I can watch from either DVR in both rooms, I will be a happy camper.


Well, it ain't gonna be Cheap to trade for 2 Directivos as I think you will have to pay a Premium to get them and then there will be Bugs to sort out so I will just watch you Early Adopters of the Directivo have at it and then maybe down the road when it can talk to my HR2X DVRs as in MRV I will look into it.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Rockermann said:


> Not the case here at all. Just that some things in life are worth splurging for.


If you get alot of extra Features that are Worth Paying a Premium Price for. I will have to wait and see what all of those Features are before diving in as I am quite happy with my HR2Xs but a couple of them still have Audio Problems that I will hope to see resolved soon.


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## drpjr (Nov 23, 2007)

richierich said:


> I've got some Throw Away Money To Bet That It Doesn't Do HR2X to Directivo MRV!!! Ain't gonna happen any time soon.:lol:


If that's the case D will need to revise their "functionally equivalent" mantra. It would seem to me if you wanted to enjoy MRV with Tivo and you had to replace all your existing HRs(read $$$) with new Tivos(at a premium) you would severely limit an already limited base. I can see people buying one Tivo to use as a client in an already existing system but not paying a premium to replace all boxes in a whole home system. Some will as posted above but not the casual user. Even in a new install when there are two choices that to the casual user are indentical(except the cost) the cheaper one will more than likely win out. It sure seems like the longer it takes to release the new Tivo the more hurdles it faces.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

bonscott87 said:


> I think there is about a 0% chance of this new DirecTivo being able to "talk" with stand alone Tivo's. Zero. The old DirecTivo's didn't either and only did with hacks. You can bet big bucks this new box is being designed to not be hackable and certainly not part of the Tivo "echosystem".
> 
> HR2x to DirecTivo MRV...we just don't know. Bad news if it doesn't.


What I meant (when I said TiVo-to-TiVo MRV or TiVo-to-TiVo copy) was DirecTivo-to-DirecTivo.

Tivo "echosystem"... did you mean ecosystem?


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

drpjr said:


> It sure seems like the longer it takes to release the new Tivo the more hurdles it faces.


I for one was a TiVodevotee but now that Directv has given me all of the Features it has such as MRV and soon coming NOMAD well I have completely Lost Interest In Acquiring a DIRECTIVO DVR unless it has some Serious Bells & Whistles that I don't already have with my 7 DVRs.


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## Scott Kocourek (Jun 13, 2009)

Rockermann said:


> [...] If it only does DirecTivo to DirecTivo for MRV, then I guess I have to swap out both of my DVRs. That wouldn't be that bad of a proposition for me if it comes to that.


Having never used the Tivo to Tivo MRV can you start a recording on one unit and start watching it instantly on another receiver? This comes in handy when watching/recording/flipping through football games. It's also nice to start a show thats recording and catching up on it when you go to bed.

The current implementation of Directv's MRV is very flexible and user friendly. It will be hard to top.


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

scottandregan said:


> Having never used the Tivo to Tivo MRV can you start a recording on one unit and start watching it instantly on another receiver? This comes in handy when watching/recording/flipping through football games. It's also nice to start a show thats recording and catching up on it when you go to bed.
> 
> The current implementation of Directv's MRV is very flexible and user friendly. It will be hard to top.


That first one is a use case where streaming is better. You can transfer recordings between TiVo DVRs, but there is no receiver without a DVR that you can send to like you can with DTV streaming, the receiver needs to be another DVR currently. TiVo is working on a thin client cable box for one cable company that will be able to MRV from a DVR. It is rumored that that box will use streaming.

Your use case is build around using recording to supplement live viewing. It sounds like for this first use case the transfer approach of TiVo's current standalone DVR MRV would not be very useful.

The TiVo method is better for prerecorded stuff. You can start watching a show, pause it, go to bed, transfer from the pause point and continue watching. So for this second use case it is the same. Trick play of a local copy is smoother and faster than trick play of a stream. You can also delete the show from the sending DVR after the transfer and still have a copy on the receiving DVR if you want to.

I personally believe that TiVo will eventually get on the streaming bandwagon. I also suspect that they may use the DirecTV DVR with TiVo service as the development vehicle for bringing that about. Then they could port it back to their stand alone DVRs and streaming receiver cable boxes and streaming receiver insignia TV sets with TiVo inside.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

drpjr said:


> If that's the case D will need to revise their "functionally equivalent" mantra.


I don't recall DIRECTV (or TiVo for that matter) ever saying that the new DIRECTV TiVo will be "functionally equivalent" to the HR2x. All that has really been promised is "Classic TiVo interface" and "Supports MPEG-4 HD"



> It would seem to me if you wanted to enjoy MRV with Tivo and you had to replace all your existing HRs(read $$$) with new Tivos(at a premium) you would severely limit an already limited base.


I think you are seeing the same thing that others are seeing. I have no idea on cost. I'm starting to lean towards "no premium" on the month-to-month (i.e. included in DVR fee), but don't take that as gospel. I have no idea what the pricing model will be .. Just that I don't think the per-month cost will rise to the level of "premium" at this point. Don't expect a big break on the acquisition cost, though. So that is a premium. The same can be said about a new HR2x, though so don't think of the TiVo special. But if you have a working HR24 (for example), the HR24 is free to acquire today .. the TiVo (or other HR2x) is not.



> I can see people buying one Tivo to use as a client in an already existing system but not paying a premium to replace all boxes in a whole home system. Some will as posted above but not the casual user. Even in a new install when there are two choices that to the casual user are indentical(except the cost) the cheaper one will more than likely win out. It sure seems like the longer it takes to release the new Tivo the more hurdles it faces.


Yup .. This is kinda why I'm leaning towards the "no premium" on all TiVo pricing. Receivers will be priced about the same and per-month cost will be about the same. (just me guessing, no info either way).


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

CuriousMark said:


> Your use case is build around using recording to supplement live viewing. It sounds like for this first use case the transfer approach of TiVo's current standalone DVR MRV would not be very useful.
> 
> The TiVo method is better for prerecorded stuff. You can start watching a show, pause it, go to bed, transfer from the pause point and continue watching. So for this second use case it is the same. Trick play of a local copy is smoother and faster than trick play of a stream. You can also delete the show from the sending DVR after the transfer and still have a copy on the receiving DVR if you want to.


Trick plays work just fine over streaming .. I'd much rather have my programs in one place than having to figure out where it is to copy it .. and then delete in two different places. No thanks.

Then again, I'm one of the few that liked the Universal Playlist from the very beginning (vs. a per-DVR list).


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

Doug Brott said:


> Trick plays work just fine over streaming .. I'd much rather have my programs in one place than having to figure out where it is to copy it .. and then delete in two different places. No thanks.
> 
> Then again, I'm one of the few that liked the Universal Playlist from the very beginning (vs. a per-DVR list).


It works fine, but it is not as good. I can really feel the difference. The difference is more than enough to be noticeable, not so bad as to render it unusable. We humans are adaptable and once we get used to the latency delay, we can make it work just fine. That said the added smoothness of local trick play is nice.

I like the combined list idea also. Having things in multiple places is something some will like and others will dislike, it is just a difference. We tend to like what we have become used to.

In the end, streaming will win for both. The content owners want it and the bugs have been worked out to make it reliable, it is the wave of the future.


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## DogLover (Mar 19, 2007)

CuriousMark said:


> It works fine, but it is not as good. I can really feel the difference. The difference is more than enough to be noticeable, not so bad as to render it unusable. We humans are adaptable and once we get used to the latency delay, we can make it work just fine. That said the added smoothness of local trick play is nice.


I find that to be the opposite of my experience. I can't tell any difference in trick play between MRV and watching locally using the same "client" DVR. I do notice that if I use my HR22 as "client" the trick play is choppier than the HR24. But with either one I cannot tell the difference between local and MRV.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

richierich said:


> ... I am quite happy with my HR2Xs but a couple of them still have Audio Problems that I will hope to see resolved soon.


You may have other Problems as well; I certainly do.

Here's a bug report I'll be submitting, even though I'm sure nothing will ever get fixed: 
__________________________________________

HR24-100 (China), networked. Three of my ARSLs (Autorecord Series Links):
6. AANY 60 CSI Wife Defenders Mentalist TTITLE CCHAN4
8. AANY 1-8-7 Ordinary Truth TTITLE CCHAN5
9. AANY Chase Order Live Vikings TTITLE CCHAN11

_The Defenders_ and _The Whole Truth_ were scheduled to record tonight (10/27), but I needed to capture a rerun of _Law & Order: Los Angeles_. So I explicitly recorded it, and used the conflict-resolution screen to cancel _The Defenders_. Everything looked OK in the Guide. But hours later, during the hour in question, I noticed my HR24 had changed the *®*)) on _The Whole Truth_ to an *X** and recorded _The Defenders_ instead - without adding any *®* symbol at all to the Guide.

I have a hunch that I could have gotten the result I wanted if I had explicitly cancelled _The Defenders_ before adding _Law & Order: Los Angeles_ instead of relying on the conflict-resolution screen.

Recording History showed 4 separate entries for _The Whole Truth_ and 2 for _The Defenders_; none of the entries were revealing.

The previous night, a power outage truncated _The Tonight Show With Jay Leno_ (regular Series Link) at 37 minutes. The last few minutes of the shortened recording wanted to repeat over and over; there was a freeze at 37 minutes, after which pressing FFx1 moved me a few minutes backwards in the recording.

Recording History showed no entry for _The Tonight Show_.


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## ejjames (Oct 3, 2006)

Any bets as to DIRECTV2PC compatibility? Cyberlink had better have a whole new tivo gui (not a snowballs chance) or simply display the tivo shows in the current style guide.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

ejjames said:


> Any bets as to DIRECTV2PC compatibility? Cyberlink had better have a whole new tivo gui (not a snowballs chance) or simply display the tivo shows in the current style guide.


I'd be that is very low on the priority list...


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## ffemtreed (Jan 30, 2008)

Doug Brott said:


> the HR24 is free to acquire today .. the TiVo (or other HR2x) is not.


Where do I sign up for my free HR24?????? Been wanting to try one for awhile now.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Doug Brott said:


> Then again, I'm one of the few that liked the Universal Playlist from the very beginning (vs. a per-DVR list).


I like The Universal Playlist but I just wish I could Select which DVRs I Want To Populate That UPL.

For instance, if you have 2 DVRs for Kids upstairs you may not want to see all of those kid shows showing up in your UPL downstairs as I already have pages and pages of stuff filled by 7 DVRs with 13,000 Gigabytes of Storage Capacity so I need the Ability to Limit the UPL when I want to.

Of course, I could just eliminate them from the DVR Experience by selecting Not to Share Recordings with others but a Selectable UPL would fit my needs better.


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

DogLover said:


> I find that to be the opposite of my experience. I can't tell any difference in trick play between MRV and watching locally using the same "client" DVR. I do notice that if I use my HR22 as "client" the trick play is choppier than the HR24. But with either one I cannot tell the difference between local and MRV.


Interesting. I can tell the difference between the HR24 and the H24. Perhaps the DVR streams ahead and buffers a block on the hard drive for better performance.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

ffemtreed said:


> Where do I sign up for my free HR24?????? Been wanting to try one for awhile now.


It's "free" if you already have one .. This is compared to keeping an HR24 you have or getting a new TiVo that you don't have. Sorry I wasn't clear.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

Doug Brott said:


> Trick plays work just fine over streaming .. I'd much rather have my programs in one place than having to figure out where it is to copy it .. and then delete in two different places. No thanks.





CuriousMark said:


> It works fine, but it is not as good. I can really feel the difference. The difference is more than enough to be noticeable, not so bad as to render it unusable.





DogLover said:


> I find that to be the *opposite* of my experience. I can't tell any difference in trick play between MRV and watching locally using the same "client" DVR. I do notice that if I use my HR22 as "client" the trick play is choppier than the HR24. But with either one I cannot tell the difference between local and MRV.


If your experience was truly the "opposite," you would've reported that trick play while streaming via MRV was more responsive than trick play while watching locally.


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

Syzygy said:


> If your experience was truly the "opposite," you would've reported that trick play while streaming via MRV was more responsive than trick play while watching locally.


I seem to have this conversation going on over at TCF too. I guess HRXXs trick play streams better than HXXs do. That certainly is possible if the HR maintains a small cache.

What is clear is that what equipment you have and use makes a difference. While the HR24 does trick play better, the H24 does not have audio dropouts, so they each do better at some things and worse at others.

I also have to admit that none of these things are show stoppers, just differences that are fun to talk about.


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## ffemtreed (Jan 30, 2008)

Doug Brott said:


> It's "free" if you already have one .. This is compared to keeping an HR24 you have or getting a new TiVo that you don't have. Sorry I wasn't clear.


I got my hopes up to. I thought I missed something important.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

CuriousMark said:


> I seem to have this conversation going on over at TCF too. I guess HRXXs trick play streams better than HXXs do. That certainly is possible if the HR maintains a small cache.
> 
> *What is clear is that what equipment you have and use makes a difference. While the HR24 does trick play better, the H24 does not have audio dropouts, so they each do better at some things and worse at others.*
> 
> I also have to admit that none of these things are show stoppers, just differences that are fun to talk about.


Clear as mud. General over-statements like that often prove to be falsehoods.

I have an HR24 and an H24, and both work like a charm, and have no audio drops. Trickplay works very well on both.


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## DogLover (Mar 19, 2007)

CuriousMark said:


> Interesting. I can tell the difference between the HR24 and the H24. Perhaps the DVR streams ahead and buffers a block on the hard drive for better performance.


Ah, you are talking different clients here (since the H24 can only be a client). That part is the same as my experience. (I haven't used my H24 in a while, so I can't comment on it. But, I can see a difference in my HR24 as a client and the HR22 as a client.)

What I was talking about is watching on my HR24, I cannot tell the difference between watching a locally recorded show, and a show that was recorded on my HR22 or HR20. On the HR22, trickplay is not as smooth as the HR24. However, it is the same responsiveness whether it is a locally recorded show, or one recorded on the HR24 or the HR20. (I do so little trickplay on live TV, that I can't comment if it is more or less responsive than a recorded show.)

Since the H24 can't do live trickplay, and doesn't have any local recordings, we can't test those on that machine.

Hope that is a clearer picture of what I'm seeing.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Guys .. TiVo thread .. :backtotop


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## fernly (Aug 5, 2010)

CNET News video interview with Jim Denny, Tivo "VP of product strategy." (And you didn't think they had one!)

Listening: ah, Rafe Needleman is the interviewer, he's good... Gee, Denny was at SGI about the time I was, i.e. about the time it was getting ready to implode...

First Q: where's the DirecTivo? Rogers said it would be this year. Denny: work continues ... now sometime next year ... defer to DirecTV as it's their product .. not this year, DirecTV site says next year. "This would be a Tivo version of a DirecTV DVR."

Etc etc, Needleman is smart and knowledgeable and draws out lots of detail on cablecard, VOD, and the contradictions in tivo strategy. Well worth a listen.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

fernly said:


> First Q: where's the DirecTivo? Rogers said it would be this year. Denny: work continues ... now sometime next year ... *defer to DirecTV as it's their product* .. not this year, DirecTV site says next year. "This would be a Tivo version of a DirecTV DVR."


Now that's funny. Tivo is the one making the product and delivering it to DirecTV. DirecTV doesn't have much to do with it. LOL


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## Brennok (Dec 23, 2005)

bonscott87 said:


> Now that's funny. Tivo is the one making the product and delivering it to DirecTV. DirecTV doesn't have much to do with it. LOL


He did say that. He just said he had to defer to Directv regarding any announcements about the product. He says he has to let them give any clarification about the product.


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

Brennok said:


> He did say that. He just said he had to defer to Directv regarding any announcements about the product. He says he has to let them give any clarification about the product.


Exactly, TiVo is a DirecTV subcontractor here. They would be out of line to provide public information unless DirecTV tells them to. Denny confirmed that in this interview. The various HR2X-Y00 makers don't make product announcements about their version of the HR2X DVRs they make, and Cyberlink doesn't make product announcements about DirecTV2PC so it makes sense that TiVo would not do so either. This is a DirecTV product, just like all the older DirecTiVos were.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

With all the time that has now passed, and with the latest estimates into 2011...

It's been quite some time since much of any details have emerged. There will be a "crew" of DBSTalkers onsite at CES this year...and one way or another...the "team" will do its best to see what can be uncovered...in terms of new or added information.

TiVo does have a set of meeting rooms there - last year...absolutely nothing was going on in there other than some trinket giveaways. In another 62 days at CES 2011...hopefully we can deliver some new information for you folks.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

CuriousMark said:


> Exactly, TiVo is a DirecTV subcontractor here. They would be out of line to provide public information unless DirecTV tells them to. Denny confirmed that in this interview. The various HR2X-Y00 makers don't make product announcements about their version of the HR2X DVRs they make, and Cyberlink doesn't make product announcements about DirecTV2PC so it makes sense that TiVo would not do so either. This is a DirecTV product, just like all the older DirecTiVos were.


It's not completely cut and dry as I'm sure TiVo will be dying to make an announcement when the time comes. I think the key point is that any announcement would need to have DIRECTV's blessing. DIRECTV will be marketing this receiver. But If you think anyone other than TiVo is working on the software part, you are mistaken.


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

Doug Brott said:


> But If you think anyone other than TiVo is working on the software part, you are mistaken.


I never said and never implied anything of the sort. That is completely out of left field. TiVo is the subcontractor here, no one else. The point I have made over and over is that they are indeed a subcontractor here, not a partner.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

CuriousMark said:


> I never said and never implied anything of the sort. That is completely out of left field. TiVo is the subcontractor here, no one else. The point I have made over and over is that they are indeed a subcontractor here, not a partner.


Sorry .. while it wasn't so clear in my message I meant "you" as in anyone who reads the message. I really wasn't picking on you directly despite what it looks like.


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## Brennok (Dec 23, 2005)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> With all the time that has now passed, and with the latest estimates into 2011...
> 
> It's been quite some time since much of any details have emerged. There will be a "crew" of DBSTalkers onsite at CES this year...and one way or another...the "team" will do its best to see what can be uncovered...in terms of new or added information.
> 
> TiVo does have a set of meeting rooms there - last year...absolutely nothing was going on in there other than some trinket giveaways. In another 62 days at CES 2011...hopefully we can deliver some new information for you folks.


Also Jim's DirecTiVo response was the same one he gave with regards to the Best Buy Insignia TV.

Hopefully we will know something sooner rather than later just even for me at this point for curiosity sakes even though I know I will be picking up several for my father. I know some if not all testers have their box by now. One would hope details and "rumors" would start to surface.

Last CES didn't they just have the Premiere behind closed doors under NDA?

From Jim's comments though I would expect it to be in DirecTV's booth over TiVo but they might have one also if DirecTV plans to.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Brennok said:


> Last CES didn't they just have the Premiere behind closed doors under NDA?
> 
> From Jim's comments though I would expect it to be in DirecTV's booth over TiVo but they might have one also if DirecTV plans to.


DirecTV has no booth at CES - last year or this coming January...they do have folks on the ground there though.

More important - Tivo has a similar setup coming up in January as last year - invitation only meeting rooms. Only pre-approved folks and/or press are allowed in. Where there's a will, there's a way.


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## Brennok (Dec 23, 2005)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> DirecTV has no booth at CES - last year or this coming January...they do have folks on the ground there though.
> 
> More important - Tivo has a similar setup coming up in January as last year - invitation only meeting rooms. Only pre-approved folks and/or press are allowed in. Where there's a will, there's a way.


I just assumed DirecTV would have a booth.

Wish I was going to CES just for the fun of trying to get behind close doors.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Brennok said:


> I just assumed DirecTV would have a booth.
> 
> Wish I was going to CES just for the fun of trying to get behind close doors.


Some of us made the assumption last year. The do have folks there - last year we met several of them in other vendor/partner booths.

CES is not open to the public, but a number of DBSTalkers acquire credentials to gain admittance. Last year, a report of activities seen was filed...look for another one this year.


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## Brennok (Dec 23, 2005)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Some of us made the assumption last year. The do have folks there - last year we met several of them in other vendor/partner booths.
> 
> CES is not open to the public, but a number of DBSTalkers acquire credentials to gain admittance. Last year, a report of activities seen was filed...look for another one this year.


It may not be open to the public, but there are always ways in especially in Vegas. 

I know of many places and parties my brother has been to out in Vegas that aren't open to the public, some of which he still talks about lol. Sad thing was when I was younger I was there multiple times during CES but didn't go when I easily could have.


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## newsposter (Nov 13, 2003)

if dish buys tivo will this kill the new directivo?


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Brennok said:


> It may not be open to the public, but there are always ways in especially in Vegas.
> 
> I know of many places and parties my brother has been to out in Vegas that aren't open to the public, some of which he still talks about lol. Sad thing was when I was younger I was there multiple times during CES but didn't go when I easily could have.


That may be...but you'll need a legitimate conference badge for this "party". They also check 2 forms of ID to get them.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> CES is not open to the public, but a number of DBSTalkers acquire credentials to gain admittance. Last year, a report of activities seen was filed...look for another one this year.


I successfully registered to go to the 2010 CES as a private citizen, but couldn't make it for health reasons. I did it before September 30, so it was free.

Looks to be the same deal this year. Last year I registered as an "ATTENDEE".

http://registration2.experient-inc.com/showces111/Default.aspx


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Steve said:


> I successfully registered to go to the 2010 CES as a private citizen, but couldn't make it for health reasons. I did it before September 30, so it was free.
> 
> Looks to be the same deal this year. Last year I registered as an "ATTENDEE".
> 
> http://registration2.experient-inc.com/showces111/Default.aspx


Yup - registration is free until a certain date.

You must show not only a photo ID, but proof of being in the Consumer Electronic industry - typically via a business card. Some folks have successfully managed to get an admission badge with marginal credentials.

In any case - last year was a "no show" for TiVo in terms of having anything to see. This year, hopefully there will be something to view and share with DBSTalkers. Our cameras will be ready.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

newsposter said:


> if dish buys tivo will this kill the new directivo?


Ugh. That's a scary thought, Dish buying TiVo.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> It's been quite some time since much of any details have emerged. There will be a "crew" of DBSTalkers onsite at CES this year...and one way or another...the "team" will do its best to see what can be uncovered...in terms of new or added information.
> 
> TiVo does have a set of meeting rooms there - last year...absolutely nothing was going on in there other than some trinket giveaways. In another 62 days at CES 2011...hopefully we can deliver some new information for you folks.


Yes the "A Team" will be there with Cameras in Tow. I did get a TiVo Doll last year so maybe I'll get another one this year.

62 DAYS AND COUNTING DOWN!!!


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

newsposter said:


> if dish buys tivo will this kill the new directivo?


I would think a DISH Network buyout would be unlikely. It would be more likely that Echostar would be interested in the TiVo portfolio and that they would not be interested in cutting off anyone as they are in the business of making boxes for whomever will buy them.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Tivo has become more of a verb than a noun after years of diddling around on various things. Had the Comcast contract not come around a few years ago, Tivo would have been belly up at that time...it was very, very close.

Not alot has happened since, other than missing deadlines for key projects and one <yawn> new introduction.

The DirecTV HD Tivo launch is now so far past its mark, than anything less than a "revolutionary" new unit would continue the string of mis-hits.


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

I think this is Tivos last chance to make it as a world leader.

They either hit a home run with the new DirecTV Tivo or other companies thinking to sign on with TIvo this will just go with there own in house solutions.
I predict that if the DirecTV is not good, Tivo as a company will start to die off and they will be looking to merge or sell to a bigger company like a Cable, DIsh, or DireCTV (we have already seen rumors if this out there).

Maybe this is why Tivo is soooooo late on the DirecTV Tivo they know they need something unique and it must be "revolutionary" home run product.

Tivo, I hope you get this product out soon in time for Xmas pre orders with a Jan 2011 ship date, and it better be good. The Cable, Dishnetwork, and DirecTV HD DVRS sure are looking good these days. You might be too late.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Yes it has taken SO LOOOOOONNNNGGG to get this Puppy out to the Market Place that even I, a Tivoholic, have lost interest plus the fact that my Directv DVRs are working so Fantastic with WHDVR (MRV) and with Nomad coming I am a Pretty Happy Camper!!!


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

"scottchez" said:


> I think this is Tivos last chance to make it as a world leader.
> 
> They either hit a home run with the new DirecTV Tivo or other companies thinking to sign on with TIvo this will just go with there own in house solutions.
> I predict that if the DirecTV is not good, Tivo as a company will start to die off and they will be looking to merge or sell to a bigger company like a Cable, DIsh, or DireCTV (we have already seen rumors if this out there).
> ...


Nice thoughts but everything we've heard has been that it will not be a revolutionary product. Of course, TiVo claimed the Premiere was revolutionary.


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## newsposter (Nov 13, 2003)

it's on the web so must be true

http://www.timesoftheinternet.com/briefs/dish-network-likely-to-acquire-tivo/


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

tonyd79 said:


> Nice thoughts but everything we've heard has been that it will not be a revolutionary product. Of course, TiVo claimed the Premiere was revolutionary.


Well, it had better be better than the HR24s and it would have to have WHDVR (MRV) Capability and of course all of the other Features that the HR2X DVRs have and I just don't see how they are going to be able to do all of that and test it and get it working right and then release it next year.

I'll believe it when I see it.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

richierich said:


> Well, it had better be better than the HR24s and it would have to have WHDVR (MRV) Capability and of course all of the other Features that the HR2X DVRs have and *I just don't see how they are going to be able to do all of that and test it and get it working right and then release it next year.*


You'd be right if they just started working on it, but remember, the original product announcement was in September '08, tho, more than two years ago. How time flies!


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

I wonder if this whole thing was to avoid a lawsuit from Tivo so they just gave them some money in the form of a Directivo Development and signed an agreement whereby TiVo wouldn't sue Directv.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

richierich said:


> I wonder if this whole thing was to avoid a lawsuit from Tivo so they just gave them some money in the form of a Directivo Development and signed an agreement whereby TiVo wouldn't sue Directv.


No need, they already had a no sue agreement in place. Although Tivo could have said if you don't let us do a new box then we won't reup that agreement. Either way DirecTV doesn't care. Not being sued is the main focus for them, not getting a new DirecTivo out the door.


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## codespy (Mar 30, 2006)

newsposter said:


> it's on the web so must be true
> 
> http://www.timesoftheinternet.com/briefs/dish-network-likely-to-acquire-tivo/


Funny, not long ago Cnet's review of Dish's DVR was "Better than TiVo", and I think Dish used this in their advertising campaign.

Hmmmmmmm


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

well if that happens, look for the brakes to be put on the TiVo/DIRECTV collaboration.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

I made a Post about a year ago and wondered why Directv did not make an offer to buy TiVo when their Stock was relatively cheap. Just doesn't make sense not to buy it and now Dish may buy it so Go Figure.

Kind of like Dish buying Slingmedia so it can take advantage of their Sling Capabilities for it's line of DVRs.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

richierich said:


> [...] Kind of like Dish buying Slingmedia so it can take advantage of their Sling Capabilities for it's line of DVRs.


Or maybe a play by Charlie to make lemonade out of lemons, since he's already paid TiVO millions to settle the lawsuit and may have to pay millions more. By acquiring them, at least he gets something for his $$$. Not a bad idea from his vantage point, IMHO.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

codespy said:


> Funny, not long ago Cnet's review of Dish's DVR was "Better than TiVo", and I think Dish used this in their advertising campaign.


This has nothing to do with the goodness or utility of the respective DVRs. This is all about the ongoing patent infringement actions.

A possible rule of thumb: never trust a site that doesn't put full (and accurate) dates on and in their articles.

It seems likely that if Echostar made a bid for TiVo that DIRECTV would also throw in to preserve their long-term non-litigation agreement. I think it unlikely that DISH Network would make a bid for TiVo as Echostar is the hardware company.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

harsh said:


> [...] It seems likely that if Echostar made a bid for TiVo that *DIRECTV would also throw in to preserve their long-term non-litigation agreement*. I think it unlikely that DISH Network would make a bid for TiVo as Echostar is the hardware company.


I'm not an attorney, but it would seem to me an agreement is an agreement. Unless there's some specific clause that says the current pact is void if there's a sale of TiVO, which I doubt, D* should be covered, sale or not, until the TiVo patents expire in a few years. I say this because if one of the reasons DirecTV re-upped _was_ to extend the "no sue" period, why would DirecTV sign a deal that would potentially let a competitor acquire TiVO and sue them? Just my .02.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

I'd be very surprised if any sale of TiVo made the non-litigation portion of the agreement vanish. It's much more likely that a sale of TiVo to a direct competitor of DIRECTV would halt the collaboration portion of the agreement (though it's not necessarily the case). It would probably mean the demise of the DIRECTV TiVo even in the 11th hour.

But who knows .. I'd think it unlikely for DISH to buy TiVo right now, but it's certainly one way to try and get something out of the litigation.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Doug Brott said:


> I'd be very surprised if any sale of TiVo made the non-litigation portion of the agreement vanish. It's much more likely that a sale of TiVo to a direct competitor of DIRECTV would halt the collaboration portion of the agreement (though it's not necessarily the case). It would probably mean the demise of the DIRECTV TiVo even in the 11th hour.
> 
> But who knows .. I'd think it unlikely for DISH to buy TiVo right now, but it's certainly one way to try and get something out of the litigation.


I agree that the Non-Litigation Part of the Ageement would still stand and I would think there would be some Legality in place to force TiVo to complete the Directivo per a Legal Agreement with Directv and TiVo.

What Am I Missing?


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

richierich said:


> I agree that the Non-Litigation Part of the Ageement would still stand and I would think there would be some Legality in place to force TiVo to complete the Directivo per a Legal Agreement with Directv and TiVo.
> 
> What Am I Missing?


There was a link to a 10C(?) of some other SEC filing that someone posted on a previous version of this thread that stated, if I remember correctly, that the building of the new HD DirecTivo could/would be terminated if either Tivo was sold to another company or if DirecTV changed hands as well (or a certain % of it).

The non-litigation part would certainly still be enforced. You'd have to have some pretty bad lawyers to not have that clause in there.

So unless something has changed (or I remember incorrectly) if Dish were to buy Tivo then the new DirecTivo wouldn't happen but the no-sue clause should still be in place.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Steve said:


> Unless there's some specific clause that says the current pact is void if there's a sale of TiVO, which I doubt, D* should be covered, sale or not, until the TiVo patents expire in a few years.


The non-litigation clause is not something that automatically extends for the life of the patent -- it lasts for the term of the agreement. The current agreement struck with the HD DIRECTiVo refresh expires in February 2015. Some of TiVo's patents will last into 2029 or later.

Whether or not a buyer extends the agreement is an issue.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

harsh said:


> It seems likely that if Echostar made a bid for TiVo that DIRECTV would also throw in to preserve their long-term non-litigation agreement.





harsh said:


> The non-litigation clause is not something that automatically extends for the life of the patent -- it lasts for the term of the agreement. The current agreement struck with the HD DIRECTiVo refresh expires in February 2015. Some of TiVo's patents will last into 2029 or later.
> 
> Whether or not a buyer extends the agreement is an issue.


I thought you were suggesting D* should make a bid for TiVO in order to preserve the current agreement.

Didn't know the patents extended past it. At any rate, DirecTV holds some Sonic Blue (Replay) patent cards as well, if things ever got ugly in the future.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

I wouldn't envision Charlie initiating a lawsuit. He mostly just defends his company and their often set of the pants practices. I wouldn't understand why he would buy Tivo to end a series of lawsuits just to open up a new batch of them. The courts have not been kind to Charlie.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

tonyd79 said:


> The courts have not been kind to Charlie.


The courts can't reverse their decisions based on who acquires the rights to the technology. TiVo already has and will continue to go after other "infringers". The existing agreement may or may not paint a target on DIRECTV's back, but it would certainly give one pause when contemplating why they would enter in to such an agreement if they weren't concerned about infringement.

I would expect that Charlie would not overlook an opportunity like that unless he can make it back through licensing agreements or, better yet, OEM equipment deals where everybody wins. He has already paid dearly for the privilege.

This said, I wholeheartedly acknowledge that logic and reason don't always prevail (nor necessarily play a major role) in business or legal matters.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

harsh said:


> The non-litigation clause is not something that automatically extends for the life of the patent -- it lasts for the term of the agreement. The current agreement struck with the HD DIRECTiVo refresh expires in February 2015. Some of TiVo's patents will last into 2029 or later.
> 
> Whether or not a buyer extends the agreement is an issue.


DIRECTV will extend that to 2018 .. It's also already in the contract so while technically it may end in 2015 .. it doesn't really when you count on the extension.

Additionally, It is likely the most damaging Patents expire in 2018 (hence the timing of the contract) and that any Patents beyond that are already covered by DIRECTVs own Patents as well.

In other words, any innuendo suggesting that DIRECTV & TiVo will be at odds over Patents is simply pointing people in the wrong direction. The only thing that would make this a possibility would be outright wrongdoing by either DIRECTV or TiVo and while that may happen .. most companies are very careful to operate within the law.

DIRECTV (and it's customers) have NOTHING to worry about here regardless of whether the new DIRECTV TiVo makes it to the market or not.

Also, which TiVo Patents expire in 2029? That would mean TiVo just filed a new Patent last year and I sure as heck don't remember TiVo being so innovative in the recent past.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

harsh said:


> The existing agreement may or may not paint a target on DIRECTV's back, but it would certainly give one pause when contemplating why they would enter in to such an agreement if they weren't concerned about infringement.


Who does it "give pause" to? It took me about 1 nanosecond to figure out why they made the agreement. They adopted the bird in the hand philosophy .. "Pay to play" and .. Oh yeah, if those TiVotees come back to DIRECTV because of a new DIRECTV device. Well, DIRECTV will take their money, too in programming fees. It was a win-win other than having to fork over some cash (which DISH has probably spent that much in Lawyers fees by now).

DIRECTV's ace in the hole was the Replay Patents. It wasn't rock-solid though as the most damaging (the DVR one) Patent for Replay was filed exactly 1 week later than that of TiVo. But, there was a solid agreement of non-litigation between Replay and TiVo that almost certainly solidified the arrangement from DIRECTV's perspective.

In other words, TiVo may be angry about this fact, but DIRECTV played a smart enough defense and dished out just enough cash to put itself in a safe location. We simply won't see between DIRECTV & TiVo what is happening between DISH & TiVo. Not only is there NOT a target on DIRECTV's back, they're wearing the "don't hit" jersey that QBs wear in practice.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Doug Brott said:


> They adopted the bird in the hand philosophy .. "Pay to play" and .. Oh yeah, if those TiVotees come back to DIRECTV because of a new DIRECTV device. Well, DIRECTV will take their money, too in programming fees. It was a win-win other than having to fork over some cash (which DISH has probably spent that much in Lawyers fees by now).


Yup...some good forethought on their part, and preventive medicine for potential legal illnesses that could have cropped up. They stayed healthy taking that early approach.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

harsh said:


> The courts can't reverse their decisions based on who acquires the rights to the technology. TiVo already has and will continue to go after other "infringers". The existing agreement may or may not paint a target on DIRECTV's back, but it would certainly give one pause when contemplating why they would enter in to such an agreement if they weren't concerned about infringement.
> 
> I would expect that Charlie would not overlook an opportunity like that unless he can make it back through licensing agreements or, better yet, OEM equipment deals where everybody wins. He has already paid dearly for the privilege.
> 
> This said, I wholeheartedly acknowledge that logic and reason don't always prevail (nor necessarily play a major role) in business or legal matters.


Huh? Who says Tivo would go after anybody when it is no longer a means to survival? If Tivo is bought up by someone who buys them to buy off a court case, in essence, they will not need court decisions to get money to survive. When survival is not part of the equation, people make different decisions.

Besides, Tivo v. DirecTV is a whole different ballgame than Tivo v. Dish. DirecTV owns a lot of patents via Replay and Tivo and DirecTV decided to not go after each other to avoid court costs and delays for minimal gain (if any).

Charlie buys Tivo and goes after DirecTV, he will find that the sledding is tough because of the Replay patents.

Hence, "The courts have not been kind to Charlie." They would not be again.

Of course, Charlie can be his usual blustery self who thinks the world works the way he wants it to rather than the way it actually does.


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

Doug Brott said:


> Also, which TiVo Patents expire in 2029? That would mean TiVo just filed a new Patent last year and I sure as heck don't remember TiVo being so innovative in the recent past.


TiVo has had two or three patents issued in the last year. One is an extension of the Time Warping patent and I forget what the other or others were about. The time warping extension patent has been in process for years, so it does not represent recent innovation, but other patents are newer and show that while the pace of their innovation has fallen it has not stopped. This fits with my belief that Rogers' decisions to be profitable gutted engineering there and that recovery is and will be slow.


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## litzdog911 (Jun 23, 2004)

harsh said:


> The non-litigation clause is not something that automatically extends for the life of the patent -- it lasts for the term of the agreement. The current agreement struck with the HD DIRECTiVo refresh expires in February 2015. Some of TiVo's patents will last into 2029 or later.
> 
> Whether or not a buyer extends the agreement is an issue.


I think the bigger issue is whether or not Tivo will still be in business in 2015.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

"litzdog911" said:


> I think the bigger issue is whether or not Tivo will still be in business in 2015.


They won't.


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## ejjames (Oct 3, 2006)

tonyd79 said:


> They won't.


The "tivo" brand will no doubt survive. The company's epitaph has been written countless times in the past decade, yet they still manage to survive.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

litzdog911 said:


> I think the bigger issue is whether or not Tivo will still be in business in 2015.


Bingo!!! You hit the nail on the head. With everyone developing their own version of TiVo like DVRs and other devices TiVo's need to exist dramatically diminishes.

It was a Great Idea and a Novel Idea with Great Functionality when it first came out but I am so Happy with my 7 Directv DVRs and the fact that they have added a lot of functionality (even though they need to clean up their act a bit before developing new stuff) I don't even think anymore about the Directivo coming out and I Was a TIVOHOLIC at one time and was one of the First Persons on tivocommunity.com to buy and activate an HR10-250.

That says alot about Directv's Development of their DVR. They have made me quit thinking about or wanting a new Directivo.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

litzdog911 said:


> I think the bigger issue is whether or not Tivo will still be in business in 2015.





tonyd79 said:


> They won't.





ejjames said:


> The "tivo" brand will no doubt survive. The company's epitaph has been written countless times in the past decade, yet they still manage to survive.


Keeping in mind that they are primarily a software company...I would guess that before they would ever disappear...someone would acquire the rights to the software....not that it has tremendous value, but the patents and intellectual property itself may be worth such an acquisition.

Unless they reinvent the wheel somehow...they are pretty much just another also-ran company out there.


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Keeping in mind that they are primarily a software company...I would guess that before they would ever disappear...someone would acquire the rights to the software....not that it has tremendous value, but the patents and intellectual property itself may be worth such an acquisition. Unless they reinvent the wheel somehow...they are pretty much just another also-ran company out there.


TiVo has been avoiding being acquired to this point so that they can sell to all comers and not be locked into a single supply line. They have had a rough time, but seem to be turning the corner. Their Virgin roll-out in a month or two will arguably be the best DVR experience on the planet. It includes a buried cable modem so that VOD, PPV, and internet sourced content will not share the user's main cable internet connection and won't be degraded by whatever else the user may be doing in their home, such as gaming. It appears that the Virgin effort is where TiVo is focused and that may explain some of the delays here. Here is a link to the Virgin announcement page.

So yes, they are re-inventing themselves, you just haven't seen it because it has been with clients that are actually excited about what they have to offer.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Doug Brott said:


> DIRECTV will extend that to 2018.


You speak as if contract extension is a unilateral action. To borrow a satelliteracer phrase, it takes two to negotiate.


> Additionally, It is likely the most damaging Patents expire in 2018 (hence the timing of the contract) and that any Patents beyond that are already covered by DIRECTVs own Patents as well.


DIRECTV's acquired Replay patents survive largely because of a non-litigation agreement that existed between Replay and TiVo. I would question whether the Replay patents would hold up in an actual test.


> In other words, any innuendo suggesting that DIRECTV & TiVo will be at odds over Patents is simply pointing people in the wrong direction. The only thing that would make this a possibility would be outright wrongdoing by either DIRECTV or TiVo and while that may happen .. most companies are very careful to operate within the law.


The assertion that started this branch is that Charlie would somehow acquire TiVo. Under that assumption, it is no longer a DIRECTV and TiVo question about extending to 2018 as you're assuring the faithful. As I understand it, DIRECTV negotiated for the "capacity" to extend the agreement, not an actual extension.


> Also, which TiVo Patents expire in 2029? That would mean TiVo just filed a new Patent last year and I sure as heck don't remember TiVo being so innovative in the recent past.


TiVo was granted a patent (7779446) in August 2010 for their much ballyhooed "Season Pass" technology. A quick reading suggests that it may go to the core of the technology employed in the prioritizer. This patent seems to replace patent 7665111 granted in February of 2010. There was also a patent (7661121) added earlier this year regarding an implementation of closed captioning. Both of these patents will expire in 2029.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

harsh said:


> [...] DIRECTV's acquired *Replay patents survive *largely because of a non-litigation agreement that existed between Replay and TiVo. I would question whether the Replay patents would hold up in an actual test [...]


Replay patents "survive"? Talk about spin! I could say the TiVO patents survived for the same reason. Seems to me if TiVO didn't also think it was prudent for them not to challenge the Replay patents, there wouldn't have been a non-litigation pact.

Looks to me like there are about 40 DVR actions covered by the 2001 DirecTV/ReplayTV patent, not to mention a separate patent for REPLAY and SKIP. I have to laugh that TiVO was awarded that Season's Pass patent in 2010, given it's remarkable similarity, IMO, to items 1-9 of the 2001 ReplayTV patent.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

harsh said:


> You speak as if contract extension is a unilateral action. To borrow a satelliteracer phrase, it takes two to negotiate.


So using satelliteracer's name gives your comment more weight? 

reuters.com


> The new agreement runs through February 2015, with DirecTV having the right to extend it until February 2018, TiVo said.


This statement was all over around the time of the DIRECTV/TiVo announcement. The two have tango'd .. I'm not pulling the extension out of thin air.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

harsh said:


> DIRECTV's acquired Replay patents survive largely because of a non-litigation agreement that existed between Replay and TiVo. I would question whether the Replay patents would hold up in an actual test.


I'd agree that there is a legitimate question, but if you look at the dates on the relevant Patents (the time-shifting a.ka. DVR one), they are exactly 7 days apart. DIRECTV hasn't really asserted a claim based on the purchase of Replay and DIRECTV isn't asserting any claim today against DISH or other providers.

My belief is that the Replay Patents simply gave DIRECTV leverage and through a combination of a number of different plays, DIRECTV was able to negotiate a contract with TiVo that (quite frankly) leans very heavy in DIRECTV's favor.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

harsh said:


> I would question whether the Replay patents would hold up in an actual test.The assertion that started this branch is that Charlie would somehow acquire TiVo. Under that assumption, it is no longer a DIRECTV and TiVo question about extending to 2018 as you're assuring the faithful. As I understand it, DIRECTV negotiated for the "capacity" to extend the agreement, not an actual extension.


I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure that any contract between TiVo & DIRECTV would survive any acquisition. Certainly both parties could amend the contract and change the arrangements, but until/unless that happens, a contract is a contract.

Since it was widely reported that DIRECTV has the right to extend .. that right doesn't magically go away. Additional negotiation would be required. This is not just a "capacity," it's a right.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

CuriousMark said:


> TiVo has been avoiding being acquired to this point so that they can sell to all comers and not be locked into a single supply line. They have had a rough time, but seem to be turning the corner. Their Virgin roll-out in a month or two will arguably be the best DVR experience on the planet. It includes a buried cable modem so that VOD, PPV, and internet sourced content will not share the user's main cable internet connection and won't be degraded by whatever else the user may be doing in their home, such as gaming. It appears that the Virgin effort is where TiVo is focused and that may explain some of the delays here. Here is a link to the Virgin announcement page.


Interesting, but nothing revolutionary there. They continue to be in catch-up mode, as opposed to their earlier leadership position in the DVR market.


----------



## tkrandall (Oct 3, 2003)

CuriousMark said:


> TiVo has been avoiding being acquired to this point so that they can sell to all comers and not be locked into a single supply line. They have had a rough time, but seem to be turning the corner. Their Virgin roll-out in a month or two will arguably be the best DVR experience on the planet. It includes a buried cable modem so that VOD, PPV, and internet sourced content will not share the user's main cable internet connection and won't be degraded by whatever else the user may be doing in their home, such as gaming. It appears that the Virgin effort is where TiVo is focused and that may explain some of the delays here. Here is a link to the Virgin announcement page.
> 
> So yes, they are re-inventing themselves, you just haven't seen it because it has been with clients that are actually excited about what they have to offer.


Looking at that page, it sounds like customers will require/be provided a separate 50 Mb fiber optic broadband connection dedicated only to video services, and not regular internet. Makes you wonder which markets this service will be limited to.....


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

tkrandall said:


> Looking at that page, it sounds like customers will require/be provided a separate 50 Mb fiber optic broadband connection dedicated only to video services, and not regular internet. Makes you wonder which markets this service will be limited to.....


...that part is for the Star Trek crowd...


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

tkrandall said:


> Looking at that page, it sounds like customers will require/be provided a separate 50 Mb fiber optic broadband connection dedicated only to video services, and not regular internet. Makes you wonder which markets this service will be limited to.....


Sounds like they intend to become the equivalent of FiOS in the UK. BTW, Verizon claims they can deliver up to 400 mbps into U.S. homes currently connected to their fiber, if they chose to.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Steve said:


> Sounds like they intend to become the equivalent of FiOS in the UK. Verizon claims they can deliver up to 400 mbps into U.S. homes currently connected to their fiber, if they chose to.


...and of course only a small percentage of households in the US even have any access to FIOS in 2010....rendering that capability pretty much all hype without substance.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> ...and of course only a small percentage of households in the US even have any access to FIOS in 2010....rendering that capability pretty much all *hype without substance*.


What does the % of households they pass (13 million, BTW) have to do with the capability of their technology? Did you even read my post before you responded?


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Steve said:


> Replay patents "survive"? Talk about spin! I could say the TiVO patents survived for the same reason. Seems to me if TiVO didn't also think it was prudent for them not to challenge the Replay patents, there wouldn't have been a non-litigation pact.


The non-litigation agreement between Replay and TiVo was borne out of the recognition that neither company could possibly financially benefit from prosecuting the other, not that it wouldn't ultimately be in one or the other's best interests.


> Looks to me like there are about 40 DVR actions covered by the 2001 DirecTV/ReplayTV patent, not to mention a separate patent for REPLAY and SKIP. I have to laugh that TiVO was awarded that Season's Pass patent in 2010, given it's remarkable similarity, IMO, to items 1-9 of the 2001 ReplayTV patent.


That's the fun part. A patent stands until somebody screams bloody murder. At that point, the respective patent owners launch into action to get the other's patent invalidated. It hasn't come to that in this case, but it may should DIRECTV feel the pinch.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Doug Brott said:


> So using satelliteracer's name gives your comment more weight?


No, just applying a very familiar phrase in a similar situation.


> reuters.com
> 
> This statement was all over around the time of the DIRECTV/TiVo announcement. The two have tango'd .. I'm not pulling the extension out of thin air.


I wasn't disputing that they had negotiated for a possible extension. In point of fact, I made it clear that the extension remains an option. I was disputing that the extension to 2018 was a done deal. The agreement is decidedly two-sided and if DIRECTV is convinced that they can benefit significantly from not extending, I submit that they wouldn't extend, leaving open an opportunity to go after TiVo themselves.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

litzdog911 said:


> I think the bigger issue is whether or not Tivo will still be in business in 2015.


The patents are the bigger issue. They will survive whether TiVo does or not and someone will hold them and be able to exercise them either way.


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Interesting, but nothing revolutionary there. They continue to be in catch-up mode, as opposed to their earlier leadership position in the DVR market.


Catching up to what? My HR24 has a ways to go to catch up to my series 2 standalone TiVo DVR, so it is certainly not in the running.

The S2 actually works for playback of home movies, music and photos, whereas neither the H24 or HR24 can do that yet. The S2 can archive to the PC and with PC software convert for iPod and iPad, DirecTV won't have those capabilities until Nomad comes out. The S2 can automatically download web videos such as Rocketboom, to do that with DTV I need to add an RSS aggregator to my PC and feed it to the DVR using Playon or Tversity (but wait, those don't work and phone support says, yes it's broken but it's "beta"). I can get some VOD more cheaply from Amazon with the S2 than DTV (but at least DTV VOD works well!), and DTV does not yet give me any non-DTV over the top options yet, that requires a competitors box, so they have room to catch up there also. Finally my S2 has interactive third party HME applications that the HR24/H24 can't match. They provide at best TV-APPS which are just static non-interactive views of a fixed graphic.

From where I sit TiVo is still far ahead of everything else out there. I suspect many here are simply unaware of the capabilities due to not having see a real standalone TiVo (not a DirecTiVo, those don't count) for the last 5 years.

DirecTV is on the right path, and they are finally starting to catch up. I am very hopeful that the new DirecTV DVR with TiVo service will catapult them much closer. Meanwhile I survive by using my S2 as my primary device and supplementing with HD from the DirecTV equipment.


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

tkrandall said:


> Looking at that page, it sounds like customers will require/be provided a separate 50 Mb fiber optic broadband connection dedicated only to video services, and not regular internet. Makes you wonder which markets this service will be limited to.....


No, it is just a dedicated cable modem that doesn't share spectrum with the one used for normal internet usage in the home. They both will almost surely share the same fiber, after all50Mb is tiny.


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

Steve said:


> Sounds like they intend to become the equivalent of FiOS in the UK. BTW, Verizon claims they can deliver up to 400 mbps into U.S. homes currently connected to their fiber, if they chose to.


You said it much better than I.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

CuriousMark said:


> Catching up to what? My HR24 has a ways to go to catch up to my series 2 standalone TiVo DVR, so it is certainly not in the running.


The series 2 Tivo units are not new technology and lack other newer capabilities already...so that comparison is hardly accurate. The HR24 is leaps and bounds ahead of the old Tico units....you can start with the WHDS and networking feature capabilities to start with....


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Steve said:


> What does the % of households they pass (13 million, BTW) have to do with the capability of their technology? Did you even read my post before you responded?


Sure did.

Referencing something most people will never see in the next 5-10 years is an irrelevant technology refernce point.


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> ...and of course only a small percentage of households in the US even have any access to FIOS in 2010....rendering that capability pretty much all hype without substance.


Virgin has 4 million subscribers in the UK.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

CuriousMark said:


> Virgin has 4 million subscribers in the UK.


Compared to 300 million people in the U.S...WOO HOO.

Three are more people in the U.S. with pushbutton or dialing telephones I suspect... :lol:


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> The series 2 Tivo units are not new technology and lack other newer capabilities already...so that comparison is hardly accurate. The HR24 is leaps and bounds ahead of the old Tico units....you can start with the WHDS and networking feature capabilities to start with....


Ok, I am game, lets do that.

Yes, the S2 standalone is an old unit. It is standard definition after all. It completely lacks HD and is a single tuner device.


HD -- H24/HR24
Dual Tuner -- HR24
Whole Home / MRV -- TiVo S2 starting in about 2005
Archive to PC -- TiVo S2 since about 2005
Play back from PC -- TiVo since about 2007
Music and Photos from PC -- TiVo since about 2005
Amazon VOD -- TiVo S2 since 2008
Web Video download direct to DVR -- TiVo S2 since 2008
Online Scheduling -- TiVo since 2007
Network remote -- HR2X had it first, not sure of date
Interactive Network apps -- TiVo since 2007

Please add the things for the Hx2y's that I don't know about yet, let's get a real fair list going.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

CuriousMark said:


> Ok, I am game, lets do that.
> 
> Yes, the S2 standalone is an old unit. It is standard definition after all. It completely lacks HD and is a single tuner device.
> 
> ...


It's not just *if* it does something, but how well it does it...some of your Tivo items frankly sucked in their execution, and have been passed up by the HR24 - online scheduling and PC playback are 2 good examples.


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Compared to 300 million people in the U.S...WOO HOO.
> 
> Three are more people in the U.S. with pushbutton or dialing telephones I suspect... :lol:


300 million DirecTV subscribers? Is that what you are saying? Or 300 million subscribers to any single cable company? Remember we are talking subscribers to a singe video programming distributor here, not populations.

How does that 4million compare with FIOS subscribers? That would be more meaningful.

Your point that fiber penetration is not 100% is fair, but let's keep the discussion reasonable and eschew the silliness.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

CuriousMark said:


> 300 million DirecTV subscribers? Is that what you are saying? Or 300 million subscribers to any single cable company? Remember we are talking subscribers to a singe video programming distributor here, not populations.
> 
> How does that 4million compare with FIOS subscribers? That would be more meaningful.
> 
> Your point that fiber penetration is not 100% is fair, but let's keep the discussion reasonable and eschew the silliness.


Just comparing scale, not numbers.

4 million people using something is miniscule.


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> It's not just *if* it does something, but how well it does it...some of your Tivo items frankly sucked in their execution, and have been passed up by the HR24 - online scheduling and PC playback are 2 good examples.


Online scheduling is available from TiVo and several third party websites (zap2it and Yahoo! TV). It is available on iPhones, iPads, and smart phones too. It works well and is identical in performance to the latest DirecTV version. I have been using zap2it for years now.

PC playback. I presume you mean streaming to the PC using DirecTV2PC software on the PC. That does work well. It isn't integrated into media center though. Am I missing a plug-in? TiVo Desktop has done the same thing just as well and I have been using it for many years now. This is an area where DirecTV seems to have caught up. I will grant you that, but no, it is not better. With TiVo desktop I can take the shows with me when I pull the laptop off the dock. DirecTV2PC must stay on the home network to function. That is due to the difference between copying and streaming. Nomad will rectify that and catch DirecTV up to TiVo there.

Here I will give you a true good example. DECA networking. By providing a dedicated private network bus on the RF coax, things get simple and user friendly in a way that TiVo users have to provide for themselves. That is one area where DirecTV is truly ahead. Now if they can just fix the bug in the DHCP and Muticast Daemons, so it will be truly plug and play without the need to set manual IP addresses, it will be a hands down winner.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

CuriousMark said:


> Ok, I am game, lets do that.
> 
> Yes, the S2 standalone is an old unit. It is standard definition after all. It completely lacks HD and is a single tuner device.
> 
> ...


How many of those TiVo "wins" are on stock devices? Also, the only things that are completely missing on the HR2x are "Archive to PC" (there are ways to do this, but not easily), Amazon VOD (I think third party integration works, though).

It'd be fair to argue the quality of the offering in either case, but seems the HR2x handles pretty much all of the same things now.

Besides, I've had HD for 5 years now (WooHoo!) .. I decided long ago that HD trumps pretty much everything else in terms of feature set. The only thing that gets into the debate is DVR or no DVR so my "top feature" actually flipflops between HD & DVR depending on my mood.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> It's not just *if* it does something, but how well it does it...some of your Tivo items frankly sucked in their execution, and have been passed up by the HR24 - *online scheduling and PC playback are 2 good examples.*


Says you. Speaking for myself, I'd take TiVO's on-line recording manager over DirecTV's in a heartbeat, since it not only allows me to remotely search and schedule shows, but it allows me to remotely access the DVR's TDL and the PLAYLIST, and modify scheduled recordings and SL's, if need be.

As for PC playback, I can't speak for others, but I don't need to view TV shows on my PC when I'm at home. So until Nomad sees the light of day, AFAIK, only TiVO users can legally copy their recorded shows to their laptops and take them on a business trip.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

CuriousMark said:


> Online scheduling is available from TiVo and several third party websites (zap2it and Yahoo! TV). It is available on iPhones, iPads, and smart phones too. It works well and is identical in performance to the latest DirecTV version.


OK


> I presume you mean streaming to the PC using DirecTV2PC software on the PC. That does work well. It isn't integrated into media center though.


Yup. Not sure the media center approach is going to fit the future real well.


> With TiVo desktop I can take the shows with me when I pull the laptop off the dock. DirecTV2PC must stay on the home network to function.


Not for long...


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

Doug Brott said:


> How many of those TiVo "wins" are on stock devices? Also, the only things that are completely missing on the HR2x are "Archive to PC" (there are ways to do this, but not easily), Amazon VOD (I think third party integration works, though).


I am comparing with my stock 5 year old Humax Series 2 DVR. I am leaving out entirely it's built in DVD burner. From the Nomad thread it appears that DirecTV will catch up in the archive to PC arena (possibly at lower resolution) soon enough. Also, until Nomad arrives, convert for smartphone or iPad are still completely missing.



> It'd be fair to argue the quality of the offering in either case, but seems the HR2x handles pretty much all of the same things now.


Subjective things will always be arguable and it was not my original point to go there. I do want to counter mis-information based on lack of knowledge on what the current TiVo capabilities are. It is easy to bash that which you do not know.



> Besides, I've had HD for 5 years now (WooHoo!) .. I decided long ago that HD trumps pretty much everything else in terms of feature set. The only thing that gets into the debate is DVR or no DVR so my "top feature" actually flipflops between HD & DVR depending on my mood.


If that works for you, great. I like HD, but I miss features that I have become accustomed to having that don't work, or work very poorly on the H24/HR24, So I keep my S2. When the DTV boxes catch up, which I hope the TiVo Service version of the DirecTV DVR will do, I will retire the S2. DirecTV VOD is good enough that I can live without Amazon, but not being able to get my web content is a killer and I will live with watching that in SD rather than give it up entirely. Also, I am very fond of some of the HME games. I know DTV has some sort of game thing, but I have not inestigated it, so I am not comparing those, it is not fair to compare what I don't know about.

What is interesting is my comparison is against a standalone TiVo that is 2 generations old. the Current generation does much more, but not having one of those I did not compare to them at all. So yes, the H24/HR24 (ignoring HD) will soon be just as good as my 2 generation old TiVo once they get media share working and the Nomad comes out.

I know ignoring HD doesn't work for you and many others. I do that because I am going only on my own personal experience here. If we were to compare against the TiVo Premiere, which is HD, there would be no need to make that distinction.

Now if someone can make Media share work for me, many of my comparisons would even up very quickly.


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> OK
> 
> Yup. Not sure the media center approach is going to fit the future real well.
> 
> Not for long...


Agreed, although I don't pay a monthly subscription for TiVo2Go and I suspect Nomad will probably carry a monthly charge. We will have to see.

Can you expand on your Media center comment? I am not sure I understand what you meant.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

So I guess from CuriousMark's Comments and HDTVFAN0001's Replies to his comments below:

Quote from CuriousMark:
"With TiVo desktop I can take the shows with me when I pull the laptop off the dock. DirecTV2PC must stay on the home network to function." 

Quote from HDTVFAN0001:

"Not for long..." 

we can ascertain that Nomad will be very similar to DIRECTV2PC but with the ability to Offload Recorded Content from our DVRs to our PC, then using an Interface similar to DIRECTV2PC's Interface to be able to Playback our Recordings on our PC while traveling on an airplane or wherever where you can't get WiFi to get Netstreaming from sources such as Slingbox.

If that's the case, then that will be COOL BEANS!!!


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

CuriousMark said:


> Ok, I am game, lets do that.
> 
> Yes, the S2 standalone is an old unit. It is standard definition after all. It completely lacks HD and is a single tuner device.
> 
> ...


Fascinating that all your examples are, with one exception, three years old and older. How does that mean they are leading today?

CE moves quickly.

As for MRV, I reject that one. Tivo did not have MRV, they had copy from one Tivo to another. They may have been ahead on that arena because they had copy but today, they are playing catchup with true MRV.

Tivo even played from behind when they came up with these options. Amazon was just an ANSWER to Vidoe on Demand that they could not handle. Hence, they were catching up to Comcast and others.

Why does everything have to be DirecTV versus Tivo. Tivo playing catchup is in the general area of CE, not just against one "competitor." They were innovative and at the forefront at one time, but today their innovation is just hype (go back and look at the marketing of the Premiere).


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

CuriousMark said:


> Agreed, although I don't pay a monthly subscription for TiVo2Go and I suspect Nomad will probably carry a monthly charge. We will have to see.
> 
> Can you expand on your Media center comment? I am not sure I understand what you meant.


How content is distributed in a network environment can be executed in more than one way.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Just comparing scale, not numbers.
> 
> 4 million people using something is miniscule.


I disagree completely. TiVo has almost no over head so even if they could get 1 million people signed up and get $10 a month that's 10 million a month in recurring charges. Add that with the small market share they have now and it's still a solvent company. TiVo doesn't have to billions a year to be successful because they have very little operating costs. Will TiVo ever be the powerhouse they once were? That is the question people seem to think matters the most. If Google hasn't purchased them yet then I would say not at all. I was surprised that Google didn't decide to pick up TiVo. Droid OS plus TiVo patents would have made for some interesting possibilities for media pc setups.

Now as to the original topic. The longer this is vaporware the more damage it does to TiVo. They should have released a TiVo the isntant they could even if it wasn't as spectacular as it could have been. It would have kept the TiVo die hards happy for a while until they could have come out with something better. As it is now by the time it ever, if ever, comes out the percentage of people who really care will be a small fraction of those would would have a year ago. They lost a lot of revenue holding off.


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## HarryD (Mar 24, 2002)

tonyd79 said:


> They won't.


With all their (Tivo) business struggles... I cannot believe someone hasn't bought them...

there's Tivo, then everything else.


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## JBernardK (Aug 16, 2006)

tonyd79 said:


> As for MRV, I reject that one. Tivo did not have MRV, they had copy from one Tivo to another. They may have been ahead on that arena because they had copy but today, they are playing catchup with true MRV.


With the HD TiVo you can start a "copy" and begin watching it immediately. If you have watched part of it on the other TiVo you can copy and watch from the paused point. How is "true MRV" better?


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Shades228 said:


> I disagree completely.


OK....but the business model you describe has not been executed U.S. FIOS world. In fact, they have pulled back in their expansion plans.


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## bidger (Nov 19, 2005)

HarryD said:


> there's Tivo, then everything else.


Funny though how often consumers choose "everything else" over TiVo.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

bidger said:


> Funny though how often consumers choose "everything else" over TiVo.


Bingo.


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

tonyd79 said:


> Fascinating that all your examples are, with one exception, three years old and older. How does that mean they are leading today?


I am reporting on what I have, an old box. Newer boxes do more. For instance newer boxes let you manage your Season passes on the web, have much more web content including YouTube, and Pandora.



> As for MRV, I reject that one. Tivo did not have MRV, they had copy from one Tivo to another. They may have been ahead on that arena because they had copy but today, they are playing catchup with true MRV.


So you are redefining MRV to be streaming only. I was calling the copy operation MRV since I had a DVR. So you can only reject it because you have a personal definition of MRV that is very limited. Copy allows me to watch in multiple rooms, it still fits a very reasonable, and the first, definition of MRV. I suggest you use the word streaming, then you can be right. TiVo does not do "streaming MRV".



> Tivo even played from behind when they came up with these options. Amazon was just an ANSWER to Vidoe on Demand that they could not handle. Hence, they were catching up to Comcast and others.


Close, but no cigar. Comcast users were able to access video on demand by making a phone call or a web purchase, but not having it in the TiVo user interface was a bummer. Amazon Unbox, as it was originally called, did provide catch up in that respect. It was not TiVo's fault that cable and satellite companies kept VOD for their in house DVRs. Had they been allowed, they would have had it all along. Adding Amazon allowed TiVo to go over the top to get VOD. You can call that catch up or taking a new direction when forced. I am OK with either.



> Why does everything have to be DirecTV versus Tivo. Tivo playing catchup is in the general area of CE, not just against one "competitor." They were innovative and at the forefront at one time, but today their innovation is just hype (go back and look at the marketing of the Premiere).


It doesn't. I was responding to comments unfavorable comparing TiVo to DirecTV that seemed to be based on a lack of knowledge of the TiVo side. I wanted to compare and educate. None of this is specific to DirecTV in the larger world, it is just the direction of this particular discussion. You are quite welcome to expand the scope of the discussion if you like, I am cool with that.

My points are just showing that your belief that TiVo innovation is just hype is wrong and based on simply not knowing what TiVo can really do.

Now if you want to talk about the marketing of the Premiere, well then we are in agreement, that was hyped up much more than it should have been. Although Apple telling us that we will never forget yesterday because the Beatles came to iTunes is arguably even worse hype.

CE moves fast. TiVo in the last two years has slowed down, there is no arguing with that. Their lead is eroding, but they still lead. We can do similar comparisons to a scientific Atlanta DVR running SARA on Time Warner, do you think that is ahead of TiVo and DirecTV? 

No, of course not. How about the Dish VIP 922 with sling built in. That is going to be a leading product when it hits the street (or did it already, I don't pay attention).

I think the Virgin box shows TiVo's newest direction. Supplying software as a subcontractor that lets the operator get and stay ahead. I hope the DirecTV DVR with TiVo service that is coming will do the same for DirecTV.


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

bidger said:


> Funny though how often consumers choose "everything else" over TiVo.


Yes. Consumers are pretty much force fed "everything else" and have to spend extra money of their own for a standalone TiVo. TiVo's business model is changing to being a supplier of the MSOs so that they stop competing with the people they need most to prosper. In the UK, customers are about to be force fed the TiVo DVR by Virgin. I think that will be winner for TiVo. Getting the DirecTV DVR with TiVo service out should also be a winner for TiVo, and if it adds OTT features that people want, it will be a winner for DirecTV too.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

CuriousMark said:


> Yes. Consumers are pretty much force fed "everything else"...


I don't recall anyone *ever forcing *me to spend my money on any technology...


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

I wonder, is much of the resistance to a DirecTV with TiVo just a case of Not Invented Here?

I hope not. I want the best of both worlds. I want my TiVo capabilities and I want my HD DirecTV. The bashers seem to want me to give one up to get the other.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> CuriousMark said:
> 
> 
> > Yes. Consumers are pretty much force fed "everything else" [...]
> ...


Not what I understood Mark to be saying when you _finish _his sentence. He makes a valid point, IMO.



> Yes. Consumers are pretty much force fed "everything else" and have to spend extra money of their own for a standalone TiVo.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

CuriousMark said:


> I wonder, *is much of the resistance to a DirecTV with TiVo just a case of Not Invented Here*?
> 
> I hope not. I want the best of both worlds. I want my TiVo capabilities and I want my HD DirecTV. The bashers seem to want me to give one up to get the other.


More like *Not Delivered On Time *(again as has been the case with TiVo before).


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I don't recall anyone *ever forcing *me to spend my money on any technology...


My point is that once you pick a cable or satellite company you pretty much get to take the DVR they give you unless you want to spend more ( or appear to spend more). It is an economic or appearance of economic force feeding.

This is what happens when we try to parse statements that are intentionally overstated. I enjoyed the fun that was intended in the original comment and responded in kind, being equally overstated. Sorry about that.


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> More like *Not Delivered On Time *(again as has been the case with TiVo before).


Now that I can agree with. Although I think we place the responsibility for that on different shoulders this time around.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

CuriousMark said:


> Now that I can agree with. Although I think we place the responsibility for that on different shoulders this time around.


Its pretty clear that TiVo has owned the timeline in their court.


CuriousMark said:


> My point is that once you pick a cable or satellite company you pretty much get to take the DVR they give you unless you want to spend more ( or appear to spend more). It is an economic or appearance of economic force feeding.


Truth to that.

However what has happened in parallel is that many other HD DVR makers have simply passed up and/or replaced the position TiVO once held as a near-monopoly. They have missed the boat with DirecTV, in terms of having something that differentiates themselves.


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> However what has happened in parallel is that many other HD DVR makers have simply passed up and/or replaced the position TiVO once held as a near-monopoly. They have missed the boat with DirecTV, in terms of having something that differentiates themselves.


TiVo is beholden to the cable and sat companies and may have forgotten that and paid the price, dearly. They were replaced with cheaper vendors offering crappy DVRs that are now improving. They have come back around and now seem willing to give those companies what they need, and hopefully want.

Given my comparison lists, TiVo can still bring things to the table that DirecTV does not yet have. Is that differentiation, or just giving DirecTV the ammunition they may need to fend of future cord cutters? I don't know.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

CuriousMark said:


> Given my comparison lists, TiVo can still bring things to the table that DirecTV does not yet have. Is that differentiation, or just giving DirecTV the ammunition they may need to fend of future cord cutters? I don't know.


With millions of HD DVRs out there already....they will be very hard pressed to find enough to differentiate themselves with something substantial - especially in light of their traditional practices of premium costs for services and hardware. No doubt there will be some TiVo loyalists who have an interest, but I suspect the boat left the dock so far back that TiVo won't be able to swim to compete.


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Its pretty clear that TiVo has owned the timeline in their court.


I will agree to disagree. There are public statements that say DirecTV's moving target of a DVR platform was also a factor.

Even so, it is clear that Virgin is a much more excited customer. They really want the TiVo feature set, whereas DirecTV seems more diffident. (NIH again?) So TiVo may be slow here because they put their best and brightest on the Virgin project. There was an article from a Virgin executive saying one reason they went with TiVo was that they did not want to do it in house. I think he even said they did not suffer from NIH. I wondered if that was a swipe at one of their UK competitors.


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> With millions of HD DVRs out there already....they will be very hard pressed to find enough to differentiate themselves with something substantial - especially in light of their traditional practices of premium costs for services and hardware. No doubt there will be some TiVo loyalists who have an interest, but I suspect the boat left the dock so far back that TiVo won't be able to swim to compete.


You may be right, but I sure hope not.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> With millions of HD DVRs out there already....they will be very hard pressed to find enough to differentiate themselves with something substantial - especially in light of their traditional practices of premium costs for services and hardware. No doubt there will be some TiVo loyalists who have an interest, but I suspect the boat left the dock so far back that TiVo won't be able to swim to compete.


Yes, the boat has left the dock without a lot of passengers on it.

I was a Big TiVoholic and I no longer need a Directivo unless it had All of the Bells and Whistles that my HR2X DVR has plus some other pretty Fantastic stuff. I just don't see that happening so I have tuned it out as VAPORWARE that I will believe it when I see and really don't need it now that Directv has hit a Homerun with their DVR and with WHDVR Service (MRV). Sorry TiVo but you just took too long to GITRDONE!!!


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

CuriousMark said:


> I will agree to disagree. There are public statements that say DirecTV's moving target of a DVR platform was also a factor.
> 
> Even so, it is clear that Virgin is a much more excited customer. They really want the TiVo feature set, whereas DirecTV seems more diffident. (NIH again?) So TiVo may be slow here because they put their best and brightest on the Virgin project. There was an article from a Virgin executive saying one reason they went with TiVo was that they did not want to do it in house. I think he even said they did not suffer from NIH. I wondered if that was a swipe at one of their UK competitors.


I recall the very same WOO HOO when the Comcast deal with TiVo was announced - it was going to not only save TiVo from going belly up...but something "really special" was going to be delivered. Guess what....it took almost an extra year and was "nothing special".

I've seen more enhancements and capabilities come out with the HD DVRs from DirecTV in the past 12-24 months than anything from TiVo in the past 4 years.


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## Lee L (Aug 15, 2002)

Yeah, I was a huge cheerleader for TiVo and loved my HR10-250s. I really hated giving them up for the HR20s when I first got them and missed the TiVo OS. Even after a year or two I pined for a TiVo box and would have gotten several if they came out and paid extra per month for them. However as the years went by, I adjusted enough to the DirecTV box and they added enough features while TiVo remained more or less static that I would have to really think about it and it would have to be a situation where I lost pretty much nothing the HR2x has now and added features.

TiVo really shot themselves by not moving forward, IMO.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Lee L said:


> Yeah, I was a huge cheerleader for TiVo and loved my HR10-250s. I really hated giving them up for the HR20s when I first got them and missed the TiVo OS. Even after a year or two I pined for a TiVo box and would have gotten several if they came out and paid extra per month for them. However as the years went by, I adjusted enough to the DirecTV box and they added enough features while TiVo remained more or less static that I would have to really think about it and it would have to be a situation where I lost pretty much nothing the HR2x has now and added features.
> 
> TiVo really shot themselves by not moving forward, IMO.


EXACTLY MY THOUGHTS!!! Why do I need a Directivo if the Directv HR2X DVR is performing as well as it is even though it is not Flawless but with Directv working with us to resolve issues it is just a matter of time until we have a whole lot of things working Great!!!


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Lee L said:


> Yeah, *I was a huge cheerleader *for TiVo ...





richierich said:


> *EXACTLY MY THOUGHTS*...


Anyone else getting creeped out by that visual... :lol:


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Anyone else getting creeped out by that visual... :lol:


Yes, I can see the Short Skirt and the Midriff Top that Spells TIVO YEAH!!! :lol:


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> OK....but the business model you describe has not been executed U.S. FIOS world. In fact, they have pulled back in their expansion plans.


FIOS overhead/SAC is insane though it's not surprising that they're holding off expansion.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

JBernardK said:


> With the HD TiVo you can start a "copy" and begin watching it immediately. If you have watched part of it on the other TiVo you can copy and watch from the paused point. How is "true MRV" better?


It doesn't take up double the disk space and make you have to delete in two places. Doesn't the Tivo only remember the pause point from when you did the copy? Not later. So if you come back to the first room you don't have the pause point.

Even Tivo knows that "true MRV" is better.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

CuriousMark said:


> Close, but no cigar. Comcast users were able to access video on demand by making a phone call or a web purchase, but not having it in the TiVo user interface was a bummer. Amazon Unbox, as it was originally called, did provide catch up in that respect. It was not TiVo's fault that cable and satellite companies kept VOD for their in house DVRs.


No matter who's fault it is, they were playing catchup. If you can nitpick MRV wording, then you are completely wrong here. You could do Vidoe on Demand. Even if it took a phone call (which it did not on all cable systems.)

And, yes I do not call what Tivo has as MRV. I call it copying recordings. Gee, you could record the same thing on two Tivos independently. By your definition, that is MRV.



CuriousMark said:


> My points are just showing that your belief that TiVo innovation is just hype is wrong and based on simply not knowing what TiVo can really do.


I konw what Tivo can do. I had an HD Tivo until March of this year and read the information on the Premiere. Their CURRENT offerings are hype. TVs can do what Tivo can do with respect to streaming. My Roku can do more than a Tivo can. They are no longer innovative. They are hype. They advertised a great new box with Premiere and didn't even deliver on a new GUI.



CuriousMark said:


> CE moves fast. TiVo in the last two years has slowed down, there is no arguing with that. Their lead is eroding, but they still lead. We can do similar comparisons to a scientific Atlanta DVR running SARA on Time Warner, do you think that is ahead of TiVo and DirecTV?


They are no longer leading. Sorry. You have bought into the hype.



CuriousMark said:


> I think the Virgin box shows TiVo's newest direction. Supplying software as a subcontractor that lets the operator get and stay ahead. I hope the DirecTV DVR with TiVo service that is coming will do the same for DirecTV.


Good luck with that. I have only two words: Comcast Tivo.

Tivo has not shown that they can deliver as a subscontractor. In fact, they have shown as much that they can not as they can.

Or maybe there is this little thing called an HD DirecTivo. How long is that taking? Even when it should be a center piece of their new approach.

As for your hope: According to some here in the know, the new DirecTivo will be little more than an HR10 for HD on a new hardware box.

But you can continue to live in Tivo's vaporware land.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

CuriousMark said:


> I will agree to disagree. There are public statements that say DirecTV's moving target of a DVR platform was also a factor.


Doesn't say much for their ability to act as a subcontractor. Just sayin. If they cannot keep up with changes on the DirecTV platform....

What you don't factor in is that Tivo is a very small company with few resources. They got ahead with great ideas when there was no competition. Now there is a ton of competition and much of it is much larger and can invest and keep changing the game.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

tonyd79 said:


> Doesn't say much for their ability to act as a subcontractor. Just sayin. If they cannot keep up with changes on the DirecTV platform....
> 
> What you don't factor in is that Tivo is a very small company with few resources. They got ahead with great ideas when there was no competition. Now there is a ton of competition and much of it is much larger and can invest and keep changing the game.


Agree.

They are clearly not as nimble than in years gone by.

All the time that has passed on this project reflects an inability to deliver (on time). Since this has happened before (Comcast for one)...it makes one wonder just how much longer they will survive.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

CuriousMark said:


> I will agree to disagree. There are public statements that say DirecTV's moving target of a DVR platform was also a factor.
> 
> Even so, it is clear that Virgin is a much more excited customer. They really want the TiVo feature set, whereas DirecTV seems more diffident. (NIH again?) So TiVo may be slow here because they put their best and brightest on the Virgin project. There was an article from a Virgin executive saying one reason they went with TiVo was that they did not want to do it in house. I think he even said they did not suffer from NIH. I wondered if that was a swipe at one of their UK competitors.


That doesn't make any sense. Why would anyone want to do business with a company if they know that their best programmers are working on a single project. I wouldn't want to pay them money knowing I have no assurance of quality and time line because everyone who's any good is working on the Virgin project. I don't think even TiVo is _that _stupid.

Mike


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

tonyd79 said:


> It doesn't take up double the disk space and make you have to delete in two places. Doesn't the Tivo only remember the pause point from when you did the copy? Not later. So if you come back to the first room you don't have the pause point.
> 
> Even Tivo knows that "true MRV" is better.


There you go again ;-)

Streaming MRV saves you from a second delete, one or two remote presses, not a huge deal, but real.

Yes, if you transfer from the pause point, you can go back to the first room and pick up at the pause point.

Why are you posting misinformation as fact, when you just don't know?

If you find streaming better, then it is for you. I find copy better, it is far more flexible and also more tolerant of networking anomalies. Also, you get better trick play on the machine where you are viewing, which is not true of streaming. Copying is true MRV, so is streaming.


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

tonyd79 said:


> And, yes I do not call what Tivo has as MRV. I call it copying recordings. Gee, you could record the same thing on two Tivos independently. By your definition, that is MRV.


Nope, that is recording in two locations, just like you can also do with two HR24s. MRV is selecting the show from the remote machine and choosing to transfer and watch or choosing to stream and watch it, depending on the implementation. The work flows are almost identical. MRV is Multi-Room Viewing. Viewing a show recorded in one room in another. Whether it is streamed or copied is nowhere in the definition of those two words.



> I konw what Tivo can do. I had an HD Tivo until March of this year and read the information on the Premiere. Their CURRENT offerings are hype. TVs can do what Tivo can do with respect to streaming. My Roku can do more than a Tivo can. They are no longer innovative. They are hype. They advertised a great new box with Premiere and didn't even deliver on a new GUI.


Your posts convinced me completely otherwise, I find it surprising you have any real TiVo experience based on what you have been posting. Yes, the HD and Premiere can do streaming, and the over the top offerings on some boxes like the Roku do indeed work better. I am not at all surprised that as an HD owner that you are unimpressed with the premiere. It WAS over-hyped. It is not the box many wished for, which was even above and beyond the hype. Given time to rebuild their engineering staff I suspect they will eventually get it to where it should have been on day one, but your unhappiness is understandable.



> They are no longer leading. Sorry. You have bought into the hype.


In the areas I mentioned they are still leading. Name any other DVR that can do all those things. Nope, you need other boxes to do it. A Roku or PS3 or X-box along with the DVR to get there. That's fine, there is a lot to be said for a mix and match setup. You can get exactly what you want that way.



> Good luck with that. I have only two words: Comcast Tivo.


That was truly a fail. But you can't lay that fail at TiVo's feet. The OCAP and back office are being totally redone by Comcast based on what they learned from this failure.



> Tivo has not shown that they can deliver as a subscontractor. In fact, they have shown as much that they can not as they can.


They are doing it well for RCN. Let's see how they do with Cox, Comcast version 2.0, Suddenlink, Virgin, DirecTV, Ono, and others. Yes, they struggled in the past, but it looks like they are finally getting it and turning around.



> Or maybe there is this little thing called an HD DirecTivo. How long is that taking? Even when it should be a center piece of their new approach.


You and others here have said that DirecTV doesn't really care for this and only take it as way to throw to a bone TiVo's way as part of a no sue contract, right? So it is hard to be on both sides of that, either DirecTV is pushing for it come quickly or they are not. Either they are clearing roadblocks or throwing them up. Those who say DirecTV doesn't really care, can't blame TiVo for being late in the next breath, those are self contradictory positions.



> As for your hope: According to some here in the know, the new DirecTivo will be little more than an HR10 for HD on a new hardware box.


Well I will hope they are wrong. If it is just that, DirecTV will probably loose me as a customer. If you are right, then it would indicate that DirecTV is the one not wanting this to succeed and making it late too.


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Agree.
> 
> They are clearly not as nimble than in years gone by.


So true. I believe Rogers lost his stars when he took over and tried to run the company at a profit, gutting engineering and hoping he could deal make his way to success.



> All the time that has passed on this project reflects an inability to deliver (on time). Since this has happened before (Comcast for one)...it makes one wonder just how much longer they will survive.


OR it indicates that DirecTV isn't a very interested customer and has not provided stable requirements or much pressure on TiVo to perform.

Comcast bailed when they discovered that the hardware and infrastructure weren't there to make it work right. They have since hired NDS to completely redo their OCAP platform. They have hired some others to completely redo their back office infrastructure and they put their whole Tru2way project on hold while these things are being done.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

CuriousMark said:


> In the areas I mentioned they are still leading. Name any other DVR that can do all those things. Nope, you need other boxes to do it. A Roku or PS3 or X-box along with the DVR to get there. That's fine, there is a lot to be said for a mix and match setup. You can get exactly what you want that way.


OK, let's rehash your list then ...



CuriousMark said:


> HD -- H24/HR24
> Dual Tuner -- HR24


Well, these two you don't claim they are leading so I'll assume you aren't talking about these. Plus, HD is arguably the MOST WANTED feature. It's certainly high on many people's lists.



> Whole Home / MRV -- TiVo S2 starting in about 2005


I guess this is a matter of opinion, but IMHO, DIRECTV way outpaces any copy implementation. I'm certainly never concerned about "where" my recording is. I'm one of the first fans of the universal playlist because you simply don't have to know where it is .. you just play it from the list regardless of where you are. With the TiVo, you (at a minimum) have to manage where the recording is when you want to watch it. How many times have you been in the other room with your TiVo and gone Doh! .. I have to go back to the other room to send the recording to the room I'm in? With the HR2x, It's already in whichever room you are in via MRV. Sorry, I don't think TiVo is leading on this one.



> Archive to PC -- TiVo S2 since about 2005


You're right, you can't do this on HR2x .. perhaps when Nomad is available it will work. That is TBD. It's a feature for me that is way down the list, but this one .. TiVo wins.



> Play back from PC -- TiVo since about 2007


DIRECTV2PC streaming .. full picture, full bitrate .. At worst it's a draw and I don't even know the capabilities of TiVo.



> Music and Photos from PC -- TiVo since about 2005


MediaShare .. OK, it may suck, but it can be done. I'll give the nod to TiVo but it's only a guess as I have no idea how the TiVo works on this one.



> Amazon VOD -- TiVo S2 since 2008


What can you say? :shrug: .. It's a competing business model for DIRECTV. For TiVo they don't care. Since I don't get (nor care to get) anything from Amazon it doesn't affect me, but for this item on your list .. TiVo wins.



> Web Video download direct to DVR -- TiVo S2 since 2008


I'm giving the nod to DIRECTV on this one ..  .. Yeah, I'm hedging and its a "soon" thing, but this one goes to DIRECTV.



> Online Scheduling -- TiVo since 2007


Worst case a wash .. if TiVo doesn't have a smartphone App .. Goes to DIRECTV



> Network remote -- HR2X had it first, not sure of date


OK this is good for specialized installation, but most people are going to use the stock remote followed by the next group that uses a programmable remote (still IR/RF like stock) .. IP or Serial control will be for folks not in either of the first 2 groups. That being said, you gave this to DIRECTV, so I will to.



> Interactive Network apps -- TiVo since 2007


What is this? browsing the web (sortof) on your TV? Or is this like TV Apps? Or is this like the ScoreGuide and other specialized features that DIRECTV has with their iTV implementation? Either way, how could this be called anything other than a wash? I really can't make a determination on this item.

So even if I concede on Interactive Network Apps, here's my tally from your list:

DIRECTV - 7
TiVo - 5
(the 'draw' items get a point on both sides)

So, alas, I don't agree with your initial assertion: "In the areas I mentioned they are still leading. Name any other DVR that can do all those things. Nope, you need other boxes to do it."


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

I vote Doug's Post #350 *POST OF THE DAY*.


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## JBernardK (Aug 16, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> OK, let's rehash your list then ...
> 
> How many times have you been in the other room with your TiVo and gone Doh! .. I have to go back to the other room to send the recording to the room I'm in? With the HR2x, It's already in whichever room you are in via MRV. Sorry, I don't think TiVo is leading on this one.


With TiVo you do not push a recording to another room, you pull it from the room it is in. True, if you have more than 2 TiVos you need to know which one it is on so you can pull it to the Tivo you are watching.


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## Brennok (Dec 23, 2005)

JBernardK said:


> With TiVo you do not push a recording to another room, you pull it from the room it is in. True, if you have more than 2 TiVos you need to know which one it is on so you can pull it to the Tivo you are watching.


Of course if you have a server and FiOS, it doesn't matter which TiVo records it since all shows are sent to your server. 

Now don't get me wrong I would love a universal now playing/My Shows list, but it would have to have some caveats. I only want shows I want to display. If it shows everything it won't work for my house. The same goes for remote deletion. If anyone can remote delete a recording then it is wouldn't work for me either. I should be able to mark what shows/series can and can't be remotely deleted.


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

Doug Brott said:


> Well, these two you don't claim they are leading so I'll assume you aren't talking about these. Plus, HD is arguably the MOST WANTED feature. It's certainly high on many people's lists.


Correct, we are talking about my series 2, not the HD or Premiere TiVos which do have it. If you want, we can add them in if we expand this to a general discussion, which this seems to have grown into. So make those a wash with newer TiVo hardware.



> I guess this is a matter of opinion, but IMHO, DIRECTV way outpaces any copy implementation. I'm certainly never concerned about "where" my recording is. I'm one of the first fans of the universal play-list because you simply don't have to know where it is .. you just play it from the list regardless of where you are. With the TiVo, you (at a minimum) have to manage where the recording is when you want to watch it. How many times have you been in the other room with your TiVo and gone Doh! .. I have to go back to the other room to send the recording to the room I'm in? With the HR2x, It's already in whichever room you are in via MRV. Sorry, I don't think TiVo is leading on this one.


It is a pull not a push. On the now playing list of the TiVo you are sitting in front of there is a folder that contains the recordings on the other DVR. One folder per DVR if more than one is out there. Not much management, you open the folder for the room you came from, select the show and select transfer or transfer from pause point. It will then ask if you want to start watching immediately. No, this one is a wash also. Usability is nearly the same. The one minor downside for the TiVo is that at the end of the recording it asks if you want to delete, if you say yes, only the local copy is deleted. I don't think that is enough of a difference to give this one to the HR24.



> You're right, you can't do this on HR2x .. perhaps when Nomad is available it will work. That is TBD. It's a feature for me that is way down the list, but this one .. TiVo wins.


Nomad should go a long way toward evening this one up.



> DIRECTV2PC streaming .. full picture, full bitrate .. At worst it's a draw and I don't even know the capabilities of TiVo.


TiVo desktop allows you to pull recordings and watch them on the PC. You can also take and watch them elsewhere since it is a local copy, DRM protected, but local. Full picture, full bitrate, playable in WMC or WMP. TiVo Desktop also serves archived content back to the DVRs so it can be used to offload the drives of the DVRs. It supports automatic copy from the DVRs and also supports pushing home media music, photos, home videos and video podcasts to the DVR all automatically. Think of it as DirecTV2PC and a Tversity rolled into a single app, but with automation.

This bullet was meant to be about the media share capabilities by the way, not the watch on the PC part, so I guess it could be split into two bullets.



> MediaShare .. OK, it may suck, but it can be done. I'll give the nod to TiVo but it's only a guess as I have no idea how the TiVo works on this one.


Yes it sucks, but it is better than it was last month. It will eventually catch up. It is just late doing so.

TiVo desktop publishes music, photos and videos to the DVR. The DVR sees the music and photos as a folder under a music and photos menu item. Videos show up as a folder in the now playing list, just as if it were another TiVo on MRV. Folders of video podcasts or home movies can be set to auto-push to the DVR showing up as a folder of shows ready to play as if they had been recorded. When you delete one from the DVR, the next in line auto pushes to replace it. The music interface is weak, leaving you browsing folders, but there are HME applications that can use the iTunes database to give a very nice interface (what DirecTV will have when RVU gets implemented) Unfortunately the developer of that app isn't keeping up with iTunes so it isn't working right with current iTunes versions. There are HMEs that can also play music and photos together, similar to media share.



> What can you say? :shrug: .. It's a competing business model for DIRECTV. For TiVo they don't care. Since I don't get (nor care to get) anything from Amazon it doesn't affect me, but for this item on your list .. TiVo wins.


You are right. If we add the HD and Premiere TiVo model this list grows to include Pandora, YouTube, NetFlix, RSS feeds without the need of using TiVo Desktop as an intermediary the way I do with my Series 2. If DirecTV leave competing business models out of its new DVR with TiVo service that is fine. As long as something similar is available. I would hate to have to wait for RVU just to get Pandora though.



> I'm giving the nod to DIRECTV on this one ..  .. Yeah, I'm hedging and its a "soon" thing, but this one goes to DIRECTV.


How, it doesn't exist on DirecTV at all. If I can do it with my HR24 now show me how, otherwise the nod goes to TiVo. We are voting now not soon, you gave TiVo the win on archiving, even though Nomad will perhaps change that in the future. Let's be consistent here. If we include the HD model TiVo's it is falling off a log simple and you can even use a keyboard to enter the RSS URL if you want. Don't forget this includes YouTube in an interactive interface.



> Worst case a wash .. if TiVo doesn't have a smartphone App .. Goes to DIRECTV


TiVo has a mobile website, smart phone apps and this scheduling is available on third party websites such as Yahoo! TV and Zap2it also. If you have an HD capable TiVo this includes the ability to manage your season passes remotely too. If you get a new DVR, you can even use the remote scheduling site or app to move season passes from the old box to the new one. Not a wash, a clear win for TiVo, though web programming is not difficult and DirecTV will catch up soon enough.



> OK this is good for specialized installation, but most people are going to use the stock remote followed by the next group that uses a programmable remote (still IR/RF like stock) .. IP or Serial control will be for folks not in either of the first 2 groups. That being said, you gave this to DIRECTV, so I will to.


Agreed. I originally gave it to DirecTV because they had it first. But TiVo (via independent third party developers) now has this in iPhone and Droid apps and I don't think DirecTV has those yet. Yes, as an app it is a novelty, but the app integrates it with the web scheduling and season pass management so you can use the iPhone or Ipad to manage those while watching TV and using the phone as a remote so you don't have to put it down to grab the regular remote. Oh and yes, the phone apps include full querty keyboard support for search entry on the HD compatible TiVo DVRs.



> What is this? browsing the web (sort of) on your TV?


No, though I am aware of a third party HME that tries to present web pages. Even the author is not touting that capability.



> Or is this like TV Apps? Or is this like the ScoreGuide and other specialized features that DIRECTV has with their iTV implementation?


It is probably more like these plus RVU. I can use an app to play Sudoku, another for Reversi, a third for word games. One gave me an interactive view of my iTunes library so I could find and play my music easily. It displayed cover art of the tune currently playing and allowed me to make and use playlists either at the PC or on the TV screen, it currently doesn't work with the latest versions of iTunes, but I hope the author updates it. Other examples include Youtube, Netflix, and Pandora that are seamlessly integrated into the TiVo menu structure but use this technology. Some More "apps" in the music, photos and more folder include FrameChannel which is very much like TV Apps but not an overlay, Photo browsing at Photobucket and Picasa, Home Movie browsing at One True Media, Movie Ticket browsing and purchase from Fandango, and streamer apps that can stream from a PC to an HD capable TiVo. It is an exceedingly versatile tool.

I don't know what iTV is, can you tell me where to find it and how to use it? It sure has not made itself known to me on my H24 or HR24 yet.



> Either way, how could this be called anything other than a wash? I really can't make a determination on this item.


 This won't be a wash until RVU is built in and third parties can make "apps".

So let us re-tally:

Dual Tuner and HD, two points each.
MRV, we have different preferences, at best it is a wash, one point each.
Archive and convert video for smartphones or take on the road on a PC, one point for TiVo. (it could be two if these were split up)
Watch on a PC, one point each.
Sharing home media from a PC, one point for TiVo (for now)
Over the Top services, Netflix, Amazon, Blockbuster, Pandora, YouTube, one point for TiVo
Web video download (RSS) direct to DVR and automatically updated when new videos post, one point to TiVo (unless you can show me how to do it my HR24 today)
Online scheduling, season pass management and smart phone apps for these, one point TiVo
Network remote, one point each ( I changed my mind, DirecTV was first, but TiVo has more smart phone apps out there for this now)
Interactive Network Apps (HME or RVU), one point TiVo.

DIRECTV - 5
TiVo - 11
(the 'draw' items get a point on both sides)



> So, alas, I don't agree with your initial assertion: "In the areas I mentioned they are still leading. Name any other DVR that can do all those things. Nope, you need other boxes to do it."


I have elaborated to explain further. I doubt we will ever agree on a score, but perhaps with more information now you may want to reconsider some of your votes. Also, many of these things bear much greater weight that others. For instance network remote could probably be removes, it is a hobbyist thing really. Also I left out the Querty keyboard remote that the HD capable TiVo just gained. It could be a category unto itself, and compared against triple tap. Also, HD and over the top could get higher weight or more points since they really are more desirable features. So any vote we take will be fluffy and not definitive, still it is fun to discuss this.

The point I really want to make is that TiVo leads in many areas, lags in some areas, but is definitely in the running and in my opinion, for things I care about and use daily, is still leading. So I REALLY want to to see those features that don't directly conflict with a DirecTV money making product such as PPV, included in the next DirecTV DVR with TiVo. They are great features and my HR24 does not have them now.


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## rayik (Mar 30, 2009)

Nice post (#354) CuriousMark.

Right know and for the forseeable future, ultimate scorecard:

HD on D* box - yes
HD on D*TIVO - no


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

rayik said:


> Nice post (#354) CuriousMark.
> 
> Right know and for the forseeable future, ultimate scorecard:
> 
> ...


That about sums it up pretty well. 

Not to mention there is no way of telling what features in the current TiVo's will be in the DirecTiVo. We can speculate but that's about it. 

Mike


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

rayik said:


> Nice post (#354) CuriousMark.
> 
> Right know and for the forseeable future, ultimate scorecard:
> 
> ...


Your point is well taken. I was only talking about what I know personally and I have never tried a DirecTiVo. Loosing HD like is a real kick in the teeth. Let's hope the new box gets here soon.


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

MicroBeta said:


> Not to mention there is no way of telling what features in the current TiVo's will be in the DirecTiVo. We can speculate but that's about it.


So true. The people that know aren't saying. My wish list is out there.


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## Lee L (Aug 15, 2002)

MicroBeta said:


> That about sums it up pretty well.
> 
> Not to mention there is no way of telling what features in the current TiVo's will be in the DirecTiVo. We can speculate but that's about it.
> 
> Mike


Well, I'd say its a good bet that Amazon streaming won't make it in there.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

Lee L said:


> Well, I'd say its a good bet that Amazon streaming won't make it in there.


Yeah, that's pretty much guaranteed. Anything that's a competing service or that could conflict with current DRM agreements that DirecTV might have are also suspect.

Mike


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

MicroBeta said:


> Yeah, that's pretty much guaranteed. Anything that's a competing service or that could conflict with current DRM agreements that DirecTV might have are also suspect.


Can handicap which things you consider suspect?


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

CuriousMark said:


> Well I will hope they are wrong. If it is just that, DirecTV will probably loose me as a customer. If you are right, then it would indicate that DirecTV is the one not wanting this to succeed and making it late too.


You are obviously a fanboy and I have given up talking to you on this topic. Spin your MRV discussion anyway you want. And claim that Tivo is leading and turned it around based upon vaporware all you want. When it came to actual delivery in the last few years, Tivo has failed. But you say they are doing well because they ANNOUNCED new product. I say their track record the last few years stinks and they have not been at the forefront of innovation in a decade. Facts are on my side. Speculation is on yours, only if it is your speculation.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

CuriousMark said:


> So true. The people that know aren't saying. My wish list is out there.


One last post because this shows how delusional you are. Someone here who has some information has indicated that the new DirecTivo will basically be an HD version of the HR10 on the HR2x hardware platform. You can deny that no one is saying anything only because you are not reading the posts on this thread.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

The Only Thing TiVo is good at nowadays is Announcing New Things To Come that never happen.

I guess you could call that VAPORWARE but at last year's CES they had nothing to show us but did offer us a TiVo Plush Doll. I mean they are a Joke and I have good money to bet that we will never see the Directivo.

Just a Hunch.

Who needs it anyway now that Directv has stepped up to the plate.


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

tonyd79 said:


> You are obviously a fanboy and I have given up talking to you on this topic. Spin your MRV discussion anyway you want. And claim that Tivo is leading and turned it around based upon vaporware all you want. When it came to actual delivery in the last few years, Tivo has failed. But you say they are doing well because they ANNOUNCED new product. I say their track record the last few years stinks and they have not been at the forefront of innovation in a decade. Facts are on my side. Speculation is on yours, only if it is your speculation.


We are both fanboys, you for DirecTV, me for TiVo. So what!

I have not done any spin, I have been very careful to remain as balanced as I can. If that means rebutting fanboys who do spin, the so be it.

I did not say TiVo is doing well because of announced new products, you are putting words in my mouth there. I said that TiVo has had troubles and that the newly announced stuff leads me to hope they are finally turning around. That is hugely different than what you just said.

My claims that TiVo has leading features, most developed fairly long ago, stand on their own or not. They are not spin, I described them as they are. I even went to pains to point out the features of my new HR24 that beat out my TiVo in order to be more balanced. I am not seeing that kind of balance from some DirecTV devotees here, and I am seeing that kind of balance from others. That's fine. It is still fun and interesting to discuss these things. If you don't like what I am saying though, please don't take it personally. It is not meant that way.

By the way, their track record the last two years has been bad, and I said so, and said why I think so. Did you notice?


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## JBernardK (Aug 16, 2006)

tonyd79 said:


> One last post because this shows how delusional you are. Someone here who has some information has indicated that the new DirecTivo will basically be an HD version of the HR10 on the HR2x hardware platform. You can deny that no one is saying anything only because you are not reading the posts on this thread.


Plenty of people on these forums claim to have info, but until it happens it is just speculation.


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

tonyd79 said:


> One last post because this shows how delusional you are. Someone here who has some information has indicated that the new DirecTivo will basically be an HD version of the HR10 on the HR2x hardware platform. You can deny that no one is saying anything only because you are not reading the posts on this thread.


Insults aren't necessary. I can have a hope and express my desires. Others can post that they feel otherwise. Where is the delusion?

It may be a castrated box, just as you say. I can still hope that it won't be, or is that a violation of rule to be optimistic?

If it is not extremely limited as you and other have posted that it will, then it will be good for both DirecTV and TiVo. If it is limited, it won't be good for either. I will patiently wait to find out, using my new HR24 and H24 to tide me over until that time. My S2 will fill in the gaps that those boxes don't have the feature set to provide yet.

If the TiVo is limited like that, then perhaps the limit will be because DirecTV wants to provide those features themselves. If so, then my speculation that NIH syndrome is behind that might prove to be true. Or it might not. We shall see. I hope DirecTVs management has an open mind and takes "best of breed" technology where they find it.


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

richierich said:


> The Only Thing TiVo is good at nowadays is Announcing New Things To Come that never happen.



The QUERTY remote happened
 Pandora was announced and happened
The Premiere happened, for what it's worth
Hulu Plus is announced, but hasn't happened yet
The online season pass and todo list managers happened, and that one was never even announced
the DirecTV DVR with TiVo service was announced and hasn't happened, but hardware is finally in Beta.
The Comcast Downloadable TiVo happened and was deployed in Boston, then Comcast chose not to go national and instead jump straight to Tru2way
The Cox downloadable TiVo never happened, instead Cox is going to push Premieres and connect them to their VOD.
Suddenlink was announced and hasn't happened yet, but is not yet late either.
The RCN TiVo was announced, happened on time and is reportedly doing well in RCN areas.
The Virgin TiVo was announced, and appears to be right on schedule with 500 beta units going out now.
Australia was announced, happened and is struggling
Ono in Spain was announced, it hasn't happened yet, but it is not late



> I guess you could call that VAPORWARE but at last year's CES they had nothing to show us but did offer us a TiVo Plush Doll. I mean they are a Joke and I have good money to bet that we will never see the Directivo.


So far only Two are true vapor at this point. The Cox downloadable TiVo and Ono. The others (excluding HMEs) all have real hardware either out or in a beta, including DirecTV.

They were a joke for a while there, I can see why you might feel that they still are. Let's watch and see.



> Who needs it anyway now that Directv has stepped up to the plate.


I am glad DirecTV's current offering meets all your needs. For me, they are still on deck with promise of a good hit when they reach the batters box. And I am cheering for them.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

I was a TIVOTEE or TIVOHOLIC but the fact is that it has taken so long for them to get this Vaporware Directivo to the Marketplace I have Lost Interest because my HR2X DVRs do almost everything I want and more is on the way.

Why would I want the New Directivo DVR when it comes out (if it is indeed in my lifetime) when I have what I have with Directv???

It would have to have an awful lot of Bells and Whistles to make me want to pay a Premium to have this DVR and then go thru the Pains I did with the HR10-250!!!

Ain't gonna happen and I bet there are alot of past TiVotees who feel just like me.


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

richierich said:


> Why would I want the New Ditectivo DVR when it comes out (if it is indeed in my lifetime) when I have what I have with Directv???


You wouldn't and shouldn't If the HR24 is all you need, that is fantastic.

So why do you and others push back on me for wanting more? Wanting some neat TiVo standalone features in the next DirecTV DVR with TiVo should be no skin off your nose. So why keep saying it will never happen and implying that it should not happen?

Nothing I am saying should be taken to denigrate the DirecTV DVRs, they are good. But they miss some features I want, that TiVo already gives me. To me a DirecTV DVR with those feature would be better. If those features are not enough better to interest you, that is also fine. But please don't try to convince me and others that we should not want such things just because you don't want them.

Fair?


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

If you read my posts carefully then you would know that I would Love to see something that is far better than my HR2X DVRs but I don't believe it will happen. If it does then I will buy one and give it a Demo and kick the tires to see just how Great it is.

But I have my doubts as it seems to take forever for them to release this Puppy unless the Puppy died.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

CuriousMark said:


> So why do you and others push back on me for wanting more?


Thread got interesting, didn't it? 

Your tally v. my tally just shows the difference in opinion for the most part.

As for MRV .. Yeah, "copy" would be better than not having the ability. But with the UPL and streaming keeping the entire system consistent between DVRs .. Well, let's just say it's less work and you definitely can't convince me that TiVo does it the better way.


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## litzdog911 (Jun 23, 2004)

richierich said:


> If you read my posts carefully then you would know that I would Love to see something that is far better than my HR2X DVRs but I don't believe it will happen. If it does then I will buy one and give it a Demo and kick the tires to see just how Great it is.
> 
> But I have my doubts as it seems to take forever for them to release this Puppy unless the Puppy died.


Well stated. That's exactly how I feel. I love my old Tivo DVRs, but the DirecTV DVRs have surpassed them in just about every way that matters to me and my family. I'm anxious to see if the new HD Tivo will bring any of the newer Tivo features to the table, but I highly doubt it. We'll see.


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

Doug Brott said:


> Thread got interesting, didn't it?
> 
> Your tally v. my tally just shows the difference in opinion for the most part.
> 
> As for MRV .. Yeah, "copy" would be better than not having the ability. But with the UPL and streaming keeping the entire system consistent between DVRs .. Well, let's just say it's less work and you definitely can't convince me that TiVo does it the better way.


Fair enough, I am happy to agree to disagree on that one. There is lots of room for differences of opinion.

My point in all this comparison was to counter mis-information based on ignorance of what TiVo Standalone DVRs can do and where the company is at. TiVo has innovated, and is still innovating although at a slower pace lately. TiVo has features that DirecTV's current DVR lacks and the DirecTV DVR likewise has some that TiVo lacks. There is room for some wonderful synergy here. I am hoping that new TiVo Service will provide at least some of that synergy.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

litzdog911 said:


> Well stated. That's exactly how I feel. I love my old Tivo DVRs, but the DirecTV DVRs have surpassed them in just about every way that matters to me and my family. I'm anxious to see if the new HD Tivo will bring any of the newer Tivo features to the table, but I highly doubt it. We'll see.


EXACTLY!!! Always Great to see your Posts as I have watched you on AVSFORUMs for a long time when I was "Plasmamaniac".


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> As for MRV .. Yeah, "copy" would be better than not having the ability. But with the UPL and streaming keeping the entire system consistent between DVRs .. Well, let's just say it's less work and you definitely can't convince me that TiVo does it the better way.


One advantage to stream vs. copy I see is one less file I need to delete when I'm finished watching it.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Steve said:


> One advantage to stream vs. copy I see is one less file I need to delete when I'm finished watching it.


Yes, I Agree that it is one less thing to Delete and it is also not taking up more space on a Hard Drive because it is Streaming and not Transferring or Copying to another Device's hard drive.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

CuriousMark said:


> Online Scheduling -- TiVo since 2007





Doug Brott said:


> Worst case a wash .. if TiVo doesn't have a smartphone App .. Goes to DIRECTV


I like TiVO's on-line scheduler better, because it also provides access to each DVR's TDL and the Series Manager. I'd love to be able to sit at a single PC on my LAN and manage each of my DVR's recording activity from one place, since right now I have DVR's on 3 different floors of my house.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Steve said:


> One advantage to stream vs. copy I see is one less file I need to delete when I'm finished watching it.


...and one more disadvantage is the streaming may not work well if at all...subject to connectivity. I suspect that price is higher to pay than the 2 seconds it takes to delete a file.


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

Steve said:


> One advantage to stream vs. copy I see is one less file I need to delete when I'm finished watching it.


Although this does not apply to DirecTV, in the cable world streaming also beats the copy protection flags that some cablecos use to inhibit copy type MRV in DVRs that are not their own. I did not go with the TiVo Premiere for this very reason. I live in a Time Warner area where they play this game that kills copy type MRV. I need MRV and with DirecTV I still have it. Why TiVo has not implemented a streaming mode for MRV between Premieres just mystifies me, that should be even a higher priority than Virgin.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> ...and one more disadvantage is the streaming may not work well if at all...subject to connectivity. I suspect that price is higher to pay than the 2 seconds it takes to delete a file.


As a well-known complainer about HR2x deficiencies, I must admit that DirecTV's MRV streaming between my two HR24-100s is working very, very well, with only a second or two of delay at startup for each streamed show, and with trick play just a tiny bit less responsive.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Syzygy said:


> As a well-known complainer about HR2x deficiencies, I must admit that DirecTV's MRV streaming between my two HR24-100s is working very, very well, with only a second or two of delay at startup for each streamed show, and with trick play just a tiny bit less responsive.


I think you're confusing network-connected direct content streaming with the way these units would work without support DECA, or using Internet sources or WIFI...not the same.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> As for MRV .. Yeah, "copy" would be better than not having the ability. But with the UPL and streaming keeping the entire system consistent between DVRs .. Well, let's just say it's less work and you definitely can't convince me that TiVo does it the better way.





Steve said:


> One advantage to stream vs. copy I see is one less file I need to delete when I'm finished watching it.





hdtvfan0001 said:


> ...and one more disadvantage is the streaming may not work well if at all...subject to connectivity. I suspect that price is higher to pay than the 2 seconds it takes to delete a file.


We're comparing MRV methods here.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Steve said:


> We're comparing MRV methods here.


Interesting..so what does pushing one red delete button have to do with MRV exclusively..? It works that way for any recording.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Interesting..so what does pushing one red delete button have to do with MRV exclusively..? It works that way for any recording.


DirecTV streaming MRV you only have to delete one file when you're done. TiVO copy MRV you have to delete two.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Steve said:


> DirecTV streaming MRV you only have to delete one file when you're done. TiVO copy MRV you have to delete two.


Thanks for clearing that up.


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> ...and one more disadvantage is the streaming may not work well if at all...subject to connectivity. I suspect that price is higher to pay than the 2 seconds it takes to delete a file.


+1

Deca seems to be the enabling technology that makes streaming MRV work so well.


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## rayik (Mar 30, 2009)

richierich said:


> I was a TIVOTEE or TIVOHOLIC but the fact is that it has taken so long for them to get this Vaporware Directivo to the Marketplace I have Lost Interest because my HR2X DVRs do almost everything I want and more is on the way.
> 
> Why would I want the New Ditectivo DVR when it comes out (if it is indeed in my lifetime) when I have what I have with Directv???
> 
> ...


Same here.

Two years ago I would have paid a good premium to get a HD D*TIVO. But no more, after using the D* boxes for two years. Regardless of the D* v. TIVO, the D* HD boxes are really good and have almost all the functionality of the old SD D*TIVOS.


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

rayik said:


> Same here.
> 
> Two years ago I would have paid a good premium to get a HD D*TIVO. But no more, after using the D* boxes for two years. Regardless of the D* v. TIVO, the D* HD boxes are really good and have almost all the functionality of the old SD D*TIVOS.


Yes, the HR2Xs are definitely a step up from the older DirecTiVos. I come from the standalone TiVo world where the DVRs were much more innovative. That is why I am pressing, as best I can, for as many of those cool features to be included in the new DirecTiVo as possible. Without those features, there probably isn't going to be much of a reason to switch away from an HR2X.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

CuriousMark said:


> Yes, the HR2Xs are definitely a step up from the older DirecTiVos. I come from the standalone TiVo world where the DVRs were much more innovative. That is why I am pressing, as best I can, for as many of those cool features to be included in the new DirecTiVo as possible. Without those features, there probably isn't going to be much of a reason to switch away from an HR2X.


That's the thing though, most of those "cool" stand alone features aren't going to make it in the DirecTivo platform. Yea we don't know everything for sure but a lot of the stuff you've mentioned just isn't going to be there simply because it competes with DirecTV directly (like Amazon VOD) or DirecTV already has their own version (MRV or Nomad vs. Tivo2Go for example) and so they certainly aren't going to have two incompatible feature sets on big things like that.

The Tivo CEO earlier this year stated that the new DirecTivo HD would be based on the "classic" Tivo UI and thus it's feature set as well. Don't be expecting any Premier stuff. And a lot of the Tivo "cool stuff" historically was done by hacking and you can be sure that Tivo has been told this thing had better not be hackable (which could be a top reason for the continued delays, Tivo can't lock down their own product).

So the good money is basically on an HR10-250 with MPEG4 support as well as some Tivo stuff like Kids Zone and swivel search (announced a couple years ago). One hopes it will have the advanced platform support of MRV, DoD and so forth as well.


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

bonscott87 said:


> That's the thing though, most of those "cool" stand alone features aren't going to make it in the DirecTivo platform. Yea we don't know everything for sure but a lot of the stuff you've mentioned just isn't going to be there simply because it competes with DirecTV directly (like Amazon VOD) or DirecTV already has their own version (MRV or Nomad vs. Tivo2Go for example) and so they certainly aren't going to have two incompatible feature sets on big things like that.


Sure, that makes perfect sense to me too. They can leave out TiVo2go if the box will be Nomad compatible in the same way an HR2X will be. Even if the compatibility is not out there on day one, but promised, I think I could live with that. It is the feature I want and the specific implementation is secondary to me.



> The Tivo CEO earlier this year stated that the new DirecTivo HD would be based on the "classic" Tivo UI and thus it's feature set as well. Don't be expecting any Premier stuff.


Some of my favorite features are available in the old UI (I have an S2 after all) and don't directly compete with DirecTV current offering. For instance I really want access to web videos via RSS or menu selection from sources like CNET, NYTIMES, Rocketboom, The Onion, Revision 3 and others. That is an internet feature not on the HRs, it doesn't compete with VOD, PPV or any revenue generating feature of DirecTV, and adds value for me. Some of these are on my S2, others require either an HD or at least MP4 capable device, and the HR2x platform fits that bill.



> And a lot of the Tivo "cool stuff" historically was done by hacking and you can be sure that Tivo has been told this thing had better not be hackable (which could be a top reason for the continued delays, Tivo can't lock down their own product).


Hacking is not on the table and has never been for any feature I have ever discussed. Every feature I have talked about is STOCK and I won't discuss any that requires anything more than the remote control, and the expertise to press its buttons.



> So the good money is basically on an HR10-250 with MPEG4 support as well as some Tivo stuff like Kids Zone and swivel search (announced a couple years ago). One hopes it will have the advanced platform support of MRV, DoD and so forth as well.


I would like the see the following added to that list, even if they re unlikely:

Web video downlods
Working media sharing
DirecTV Cinema
HME Applications such as, games, One True Media, Movie theater times and tickets, Picasa, etc.

Some also nice, but possibly competitive with DirecTV features, and thus much less likely:

Pandora
YouTube
Hulu Plus

I agree with you that these are extremely unlikely, but perhaps some in the first list could be done if DirecTV were to allow it.

Many of these items are still consistent with Rogers' comments, so his comments don't rule them out. However, those comments provide zero hint that anything other than the specific things he listed will be coming. So yes, that is where the good money is. I still plan to post my desires though. You never know when someone with the power to act might see it and say, "hey that is worth considering".


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

CuriousMark said:


> Some also nice, but possibly competitive with DirecTV features, and thus much less likely:
> 
> Pandora
> YouTube
> ...


One of those is _pretty likely_, but not sure if it'll be on the HR Tivo.


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

sigma1914 said:


> One of those is _pretty likely_, but not sure if it'll be on the HR Tivo.


Velly Intelesting!

Those are all available on stand alone TiVo DVRs with the standard non-HD user interface. There is no serious technical reason they could not be included. So whether they show up or not will strictly be due to whether DirecTV authorizes the feature or not.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Wished I knew what TiVo's Swivel Search was???


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

richierich said:


> Wished I knew what TiVo's Swivel Search was???


It is an internet based search that can find results for things that are in upcoming shows, on VOD, on PPV, on Netflix, on Blockbuster, on youtube, etc and tell you about all of them so that you can choose which to get. For movies it includes IMDB like data and similar for shows. Say you search for an actor and get a list of all the movies and show that are available with him in it. Then you pick one of the movies. It now shows details about the movie, including the director and other actors. You can pick the director and the search will swivel on the director and show you what he has directed or acted in. It is nice way to get interesting and sometimes surprising results about shows or movies you didn't know about, but might actually be very interested in seeing. In the Premiere DVR they drop the name swivel and call it TiVo search. The search itself runs on internet servers, a la Google, as opposed to only within the DVR.

Edit: You do this search with your remote on the DVR, you don't have to go to a computer or do it on a Google TV, the box itself goes out to the internet in the background to make the search request and get the answers. I am not sure my description above was clear about this. It runs on the internet, but looks like it is built into the box.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Thanks Mark as I am just CuriousRich. :lol:


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## Brennok (Dec 23, 2005)

I would be curious to see if TiVo goes with swivel search or the new universal search on the Premiere which I have come to love. 

For example tonight I felt like watching the pilot episode of Sanctuary. I searched for Sanctuary and then you can either get a season pass or go into the episode list. If they are playable via Netflix or Amazon, you can select the individual episodes for playback from the various seasons. I then selected S01E01 and hit watch now from Netflix. I was streaming from Netflix pretty much immediately.

I realize Directv probably won't get these, but they could possibly include VOD as an option. Of course this would probably require the new UI since the beta version on the TiVo HD is slow since it was designed around flash.


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## fernly (Aug 5, 2010)

Tivo has struck a deal with Telenor/Canal Digital, a satellite provider serving the scandanavian countries. Tivo Press Release covers it. This *satellite* DVR will,


> serve as Canal Digital's next generation platform, seamlessly integrating linear satellite and terrestrial TV channels, Canal Digital's video-on-demand service, and a variety of current and future "OTT" services.


OTT?
In a different report (Multichannel.com) it says of this deal


> Canal Digital's first "networked" set-top with the TiVo user interface also will include capabilities such as universal search, home networking and integration with mobile devices.


Sounds like the box we're waiting for -- hope the Swedes and Finns don't have to wait as long as we have.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Brennok said:


> I realize Directv probably won't get these, but they could possibly include VOD as an option. Of course this would probably require the new UI since the beta version on the TiVo HD is slow since it was designed around flash.


The DIRECTV TiVo UI is supposedly based on the classic (read: HR10-250) interface.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

fernly said:


> Tivo has struck a deal with Telenor/Canal Digital, a satellite provider serving the scandanavian countries.


:shrug: .. And this has absolutely no bearing on the DIRECTV/TiVo arrangement from what I can see.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

CuriousMark said:


> Some of my favorite features are available in the old UI (I have an S2 after all) and don't directly compete with DirecTV current offering. For instance I really want access to web videos via RSS or menu selection from sources like CNET, NYTIMES, Rocketboom, The Onion, Revision 3 and others. That is an internet feature not on the HRs, it doesn't compete with VOD, PPV or any revenue generating feature of DirecTV, and adds value for me. Some of these are on my S2, others require either an HD or at least MP4 capable device, and the HR2x platform fits that bill.


I was doing all that on the HR2x platform 3-4 years ago via Media Share. 



> Some also nice, but possibly competitive with DirecTV features, and thus much less likely:
> 
> Pandora
> YouTube
> Hulu Plus


Well, DirecTV already announced YouTube integration coming for the HR2x. Hulu will never come, a competitor. But I could easily do Hulu via the HR2x anyway.

One thing you may not be aware is that the DirecTivo of the past never had all the stand alone features. So many of the things you list were never on the DirecTivo's (some were with hacking, thus my comment on hacking). So history teaches us as well as divining what has been told to us that the majority of these "cool" Tivo features that are on stand alones today will not be on the new DirecTivo simply because DirecTV doesn't want them to be (for whatever reason, usually competitive reasons).

FYI I have no horse in this race, I dumped DirecTV almost a year ago and just have a HTPC.


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## Brennok (Dec 23, 2005)

Doug Brott said:


> The DIRECTV TiVo UI is supposedly based on the classic (read: HR10-250) interface.


Right, but doesn't mean we couldn't see some form of the new search.


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## Skyboss (Jan 22, 2004)

CuriousMark said:


> +1
> 
> Deca seems to be the enabling technology that makes streaming MRV work so well.


Extremely well in DirecTV's case. All thats missing is the ability to remotely handle the series management. I rolled the dice on going to an all HR24/MRV layout and man... You want to talk about a reliable setup.


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## fernly (Aug 5, 2010)

> > Tivo has struck a deal with Telenor/Canal Digital, a satellite provider serving the scandanavian countries....
> 
> 
> .. And this has absolutely no bearing on the DIRECTV/TiVo arrangement from what I can see.


It is a satellite provider, teaming with Tivo to produce a satellite DVR with OTA and internet capabilities, in other words exactly what we would hope to get from DirecTV but have not.

The relevance is, if Tivo and this Norwegian company can deliver that product, why cannot Tivo and DirecTV deliver it?

Another point of relevance: a seemingly competent company appears to find Tivo credible as a technical partner, despite Tivo's poor record in delivering a satellite DVR for DirecTV. What does Telenor know, or think they know, about Tivo, that leads them to overlook this record? What does this say about DirecTV? To me, it strongly suggests that the problem here is not technical incompetence by Tivo but deliberate foot-dragging by DirecTV.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

fernly said:


> It is a satellite provider, teaming with Tivo to produce a satellite DVR with OTA and internet capabilities, in other words exactly what we would hope to get from DirecTV but have not.
> 
> The relevance is, *if Tivo and this Norwegian company can deliver that product, why cannot Tivo and DirecTV deliver it*?
> 
> Another point of relevance: a seemingly competent company appears to find Tivo credible as a technical partner, despite Tivo's poor record in delivering a satellite DVR for DirecTV. What does Telenor know, or think they know, about Tivo, that leads them to overlook this record? What does this say about DirecTV? To me, it strongly suggests that the problem here is not technical incompetence by Tivo but deliberate foot-dragging by DirecTV.


Striking a deal and delivering on it are obviously two different things...as we have seen. If I were them....I'd be concerned on how TiVo has failed now at least twice by being over a year+ late with Comcast and DirecTV agreement timelines.


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## litzdog911 (Jun 23, 2004)

fernly said:


> ..... What does this say about DirecTV? To me, it strongly suggests that the problem here is not technical incompetence by Tivo but deliberate foot-dragging by DirecTV.


I don't think it says anything about DirecTV. Where's the "foot-dragging"? DirecTV and Tivo have had an agreement in place for a long time, with a hot new HD Tivo under development for a long time. It's not about the agreement, it's about delivering a real and reliable product.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

litzdog911 said:


> I don't think it says anything about DirecTV. Where's the "foot-dragging"? DirecTV and Tivo have an agreement in place for a long, with a hot new HD Tivo under development for a long. It's not about the agreement, *it's about delivering a real and reliable product*.


Which repeatedly now has be pointed out...including that TiVo is driving the delivery time bus....and is behind in the target dates announced previously. DirecTv can't offer the unit until Tivo gets their work done first...


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Which repeatedly now has be pointed out...including that TiVo is driving the delivery time bus....and is behind in the target dates announced previously. DirecTv can't offer the unit until Tivo gets their work done first...


I think TiVo may have driven the Bus into a ditch on the way to pick up the school kids. :lol:


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

bonscott87 said:


> I was doing all that on the HR2x platform 3-4 years ago via Media Share.


Then perhaps you could point me at resources that will get this working for me. I am willing to launder this stuff through a PC if I must. So far, media share has been mostly a bust for me, so I just use the TiVo.



> Well, DirecTV already announced YouTube integration coming for the HR2x. Hulu will never come, a competitor. But I could easily do Hulu via the HR2x anyway.


If there are resources that could help me get that working, I am all ears.



> One thing you may not be aware is that the DirecTivo of the past never had all the stand alone features.


I was aware, but I believe that most readers here only have experience with either DirecTV DVRs or DirecTiVos and therefore had no clue what they were missing. I think that background accounts for most the "TiVo doesn't innovate" talk.



> So many of the things you list were never on the DirecTivo's (some were with hacking, thus my comment on hacking).


I wasn't really aware that a directivo could be hacked to gain these features. I knew MRV could be added, but that was about it. I don't follow that stuff since it hasn't interested me.



> So history teaches us as well as divining what has been told to us that the majority of these "cool" Tivo features that are on stand alones today will not be on the new DirecTivo simply because DirecTV doesn't want them to be (for whatever reason, usually competitive reasons).


Either competitive reasons or a bad case of NIH. One thing is clear, it wasn't TiVo holding back on offering the features so much as DirecTV choosing not to pick them up for one reason or another.


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Striking a deal and delivering on it are obviously two different things...as we have seen. If I were them....I'd be concerned on how TiVo has failed now at least twice by being over a year+ late with Comcast and DirecTV agreement timelines.


TiVo delivered with Comcast, it WAS late, but they delivered. Comcast scrapped the project going national anyway. The TiVo part has been done for years now and Comcast still hasn't gotten Tru2way off the ground.

TiVo did say that DirecTV requirement changes in the form of moving target of a platform contributed to the delay. Please be less one sided, it is not solely TiVo's fault with DirecTV.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

CuriousMark said:


> TiVo delivered with Comcast, it WAS late, but they delivered. Comcast scrapped the project going national anyway. The TiVo part has been done for years now and Comcast still hasn't gotten Tru2way off the ground.
> 
> TiVo did say that DirecTV requirement changes in the form of moving target of a platform contributed to the delay. Please be less one sided, *it is not solely TiVo's fault with DirecTV*.


Tivo missed *their own announced target dates*, which changed more than once...with only the firmware to be delivered and tested...so no one could possibly be to blame except TiVo themselves. Finger-pointing aside...there's a history with those folks overselling but under delivering.


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## DogLover (Mar 19, 2007)

CuriousMark said:


> TiVo delivered with Comcast, it WAS late, but they delivered. Comcast scrapped the project going national anyway. The TiVo part has been done for years now and Comcast still hasn't gotten Tru2way off the ground.
> 
> TiVo did say that DirecTV requirement changes in the form of moving target of a platform contributed to the delay. Please be less one sided, it is not solely TiVo's fault with DirecTV.


Are you sure that TiVo said that it was DirecTV "requirement" changes? I thought that I remembered that they just said "platform changes". That could just mean that TiVo decided to keep up with DirecTV platform changes, not that DirecTV required it.

I would think that they are smart to keep up with those platform changes, even if it meant a delay. However, that doesn't translate to DirecTV requiring them to keep up.

I may be remembering incorrectly, but I'm sure if I am someone will find the quote.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

fernly said:


> The relevance is, if Tivo and this Norwegian company can deliver that product, why cannot Tivo and DirecTV deliver it?
> ...
> To me, it strongly suggests that the problem here is not technical incompetence by Tivo but deliberate foot-dragging by DirecTV.





CuriousMark said:


> TiVo did say that DirecTV requirement changes in the form of moving target of a platform contributed to the delay. Please be less one sided, it is not solely TiVo's fault with DirecTV.


Ah .. Here we go .. I've been waiting 2 years for someone to bring this up. Let me be clear on this.

The delay is NOT because of DIRECTV. Now, there are certain requirements that I'm sure will need to be met .. most notably closing the ability to hack the TiVo. So if you guys call things like that "foot-dragging" by DIRECTV, then sure, have at it. But keep in mind that TiVo would have known this from day 1.

Let's not forget that TiVo first said it would be out second half of 2009 .. Then sometime in early 2010 and later switch to "just 2010" and now, it won't be available until 2011. I'm confident we are now "close" but as far as I know, DIRECTV has met all of it's obligations in this arrangement. I'd like to think that TiVo has as well, but the evidence is .. TiVo is where the delay is.

It's not like this is the first time TiVo has done this. Pretty much every single TiVo project has a mulit-month (often multi-year) delay. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck .. by golly .. It's a duck.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Excellent Response Doug!!!

I would like to say it is a Shared Responsibility as things change with Directv's Platform (for instance the addition of MRV) then TiVo's Responsibilities also change and they have to now incorporate something into the Directivo that they had not specifically anticipated but generally knew that as things changed on the Directv side of the Equation then TiVo would have to accomodate those changes because who would want a Directivo without MRV (and MRV or WHDVR is just one example of a change in Directv's Platform that necessitates a change for TiVo).

It Is What It Is and It Will Get Here When It Gets Here When TiVo and Directv meet all of their respective responsibities regarding the ability to bring to the Marketplace a Directivo that will satisfy our Directv needs and our TiVo needs (but maybe not every single thing we want).


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

I suspect having missed 2 holiday seasons now passed the original target date...TiVo has lost tons in potential sales dollars.

Still thinking we may see a pre-production unit at CES in 45 days from now, if they're indeed going to come out with a DirecTV TiVo-based HD DVR in early 2011 some time. If so....several DBSTalkers will have their onsite eyes open and cameras ready.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I suspect having missed 2 holiday seasons now passed the original target date...TiVo has lost tons in potential sales dollars.
> 
> Still thinking we may see a pre-production unit at CES in 45 days from now, if they're indeed going to come out with a DirecTV TiVo-based HD DVR in early 2011 some time. If so....several DBSTalkers will have their onsite eyes open and cameras ready.


You would think TiVo would have some kind of a Beta Prototype to show the World but who knows but we will go to the TiVo Booth or Room to inquire about the Directivo and it's availability and probably get nothing more than a TiVo Shirt and a Plush TiVo Doll!!! :lol:


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

richierich said:


> You would think TiVo would have some kind of a Beta Prototype to show the World but who knows but we will go to the TiVo Booth or Room to inquire about the Directivo and it's availability and probably get nothing more than a TiVo Shirt and a Plush TiVo Doll!!! :lol:


It's nice to want...

It's nice to dream...

In 45 days....you'll find out.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> It's nice to want...
> 
> It's nice to dream...
> 
> In 45 days....you'll find out.


That's Right and I will be there with Camera in hand a a Recorder to Record their responses to our questions.


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## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

richierich said:


> Excellent Response Doug!!!
> 
> I would like to say it is a Shared Responsibility as things change with Directv's Platform (for instance the addition of MRV) then TiVo's Responsibilities also change and they have to now incorporate something into the Directivo that they had not specifically anticipated but generally knew that as things changed on the Directv side of the Equation then TiVo would have to accomodate those changes because who would want a Directivo without MRV (and MRV or WHDVR is just one example of a change in Directv's Platform that necessitates a change for TiVo).
> 
> It Is What It Is and It Will Get Here When It Gets Here When TiVo and Directv meet all of their respective responsibities regarding the ability to bring to the Marketplace a Directivo that will satisfy our Directv needs and our TiVo needs (but maybe not every single thing we want).


Exactly. And given the nature of the "new agreement", I don't see where DirecTV has any real motivation to see it completed. To me it has seemed like a simple appeasment deal all along and that DirecTV couldn't care less if it is ever completed.


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## Scott Kocourek (Jun 13, 2009)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I suspect having missed 2 holiday seasons now passed the original target date...TiVo has lost tons in potential sales dollars.
> 
> Still thinking we may see a pre-production unit at CES in 45 days from now, if they're indeed going to come out with a DirecTV TiVo-based HD DVR in early 2011 some time. If so....several DBSTalkers will have their onsite eyes open and cameras ready.


If the Tivo unit had been out a year or year and a half ago I would most likely have bought one. I really didn't like the HR series especially when the HR20 came out, then having some troubles with the HR22 while still owning 2 SD D-Tivos I think I would have just switched over to all HDTivos.

Now it's a different story, I like my HR's and I like the constant advancement of the series. WHDVR certainly changes everything and with the upcoming release of NOMAD will make the HR's the best bang for the buck.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

BattleScott said:


> Exactly. And given the nature of the "new agreement", I don't see where DirecTV has any real motivation to see it completed. To me it has seemed like a simple appeasment deal all along and that DirecTV couldn't care less if it is ever completed.


Well, yeah, I don't see that DIRECTV has motivation to push TiVo to completion. In other words, I don't see DIRECTV getting angry at any TiVo delay. DIRECTV is still in a position of "If it comes out, Great! If it doesn't, Great!"


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> Well, yeah, I don't see that DIRECTV has motivation to push TiVo to completion. In other words, I don't see DIRECTV getting angry at any TiVo delay. DIRECTV is still in a position of "If it comes out, Great! If it doesn't, Great!"


Exactly. If it does come out, it helps with subscriber acquisition somewhat, because it's one less reason for folks to whom TiVO still matters to look elsewhere than DirecTV.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

fernly said:


> The relevance is, if Tivo and this Norwegian company can deliver that product, why cannot Tivo and DirecTV deliver it?


If DIRECTV were an active participant in the partnership, it would have probably gone quicker.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

CuriousMark said:


> Then perhaps you could point me at resources that will get this working for me. I am willing to launder this stuff through a PC if I must. So far, media share has been mostly a bust for me, so I just use the TiVo.


One word. PlayOn. 

It runs on your PC as a DLNA server and since the HR2x/Media Share is a DLNA client you then will have a new menu option under Media Share for your PC. You can then play local video files of pretty much any type, steam the thousands upon thousands of video podcasts, Netflix, Hulu, ESPN3, Comedy Central...I could go on but I'd be here all day listing everything.

There are other options as well such as Tversity and I believe there is even a similar Mac software to do the same thing.

You can stream music and photos with just Windows Media Player running as a server or use something like Tversity and I think PlayOn may do it as well (not sure, haven't looked at it in a while since I have an HTPC now, I don't need PlayOn or anything like it).

Like I said, I and many on this forum were doing Netflix and Hulu thru the HR2x 3 years ago. Is it perfect? No. But it does work. You may not like it as good as the Tivo, maybe you will.

Good luck.


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## fernly (Aug 5, 2010)

> a DLNA server


Interesting, thank you for pointing that out. According to the list in the Wikipedia article there's a lot of DLNA compliant software including quite a number of open source and cross-platform projects including MythTV, TwonkyMedia, and XBMC.

So you're saying that if the H[R]24 is connected (how? ethernet?) to a computer running a DLNA server, its content shows up automagically? That could be useful, to say the least...


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

fernly said:


> So you're saying that if the H[R]24 is connected (how? ethernet?) to a computer running a DLNA server, its content shows up automagically? That could be useful, to say the least...


You got it. It's been able to do that since about 6 months after the initial HR20 release...maybe early 2007.

A key however is what the HR2x can decode natively, which isn't much. Thus something like Tversity or PlayOn which transcodes everything into something the HR2x can understand is key in many cases.

Note that software like PlayOn and such are mainly used for getting content to the game consoles (360, PS3, Wii) but since the HR2x is also DLNA compliant it works for them as well, although usually not officially supported.

You just need your HR2x on your home network with your PC. So an HR2x DECA install with the ICK will do the trick for example.


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## Brennok (Dec 23, 2005)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I suspect having missed 2 holiday seasons now passed the original target date...TiVo has lost tons in potential sales dollars.
> 
> Still thinking we may see a pre-production unit at CES in 45 days from now, if they're indeed going to come out with a DirecTV TiVo-based HD DVR in early 2011 some time. If so....several DBSTalkers will have their onsite eyes open and cameras ready.


Is DirecTV equipment really that big of a buy at the holidays though? I would put it along the lines of trying to buy someone a cell phone for their current plan. Maybe I am reading your comment wrong though.

If anything I am surprised we haven't seen any Coyote leaks whatsoever. Then again TiVo beta testers due seem to respect the NDA, not that that is a bad thing at all, but just not as fun for us.


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## JoeTheDragon (Jul 21, 2008)

Brennok said:


> Is DirecTV equipment really that big of a buy at the holidays though? I would put it along the lines of trying to buy someone a cell phone for their current plan. Maybe I am reading your comment wrong though.
> 
> If anything I am surprised we haven't seen any Coyote leaks whatsoever. Then again TiVo beta testers due seem to respect the NDA, not that that is a bad thing at all, but just not as fun for us.


I think the super bowl is one the big TV times.

Also the start of NFL ST is big for Directv.


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## Brennok (Dec 23, 2005)

JoeTheDragon said:


> I think the super bowl is one the big TV times.
> 
> Also the start of NFL ST is big for Directv.


I guess I was more thinking about trying to buy one as a gift which if it is like it was in the past, nearly impossible. I know both Circuit City and Best Buy shot me down when I tried to buy a receiver as a gift for my brother in law since it wasn't going on my account.


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## DogLover (Mar 19, 2007)

Brennok said:


> I guess I was more thinking about trying to buy one as a gift which if it is like it was in the past, nearly impossible. I know both Circuit City and Best Buy shot me down when I tried to buy a receiver as a gift for my brother in law since it wasn't going on my account.


I would think that in many cases the gift is for someone in the same immediate family. Buying one for husband, wife or child would be easy. Also, buying one from an online site for a "further afield" family or friend wouldn't be too hard. There might be an issue if they didn't activate it, but only if the online dealers are reporting to DirecTV.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

JoeTheDragon said:


> I think the super bowl is one the big TV times.
> 
> Also the start of NFL ST is big for Directv.


Yup...and 2 of those cycles have been missed for the new HD TiVobox.

Despite several of us having no interest in actually getting one of these units, we're committed to learn what we can at CES in 44 days from now, and report back whatever we learn.

For the TiVo fans - we attempted that last year, only to be told there was nothing new last January. This coming January, there seems to be a higher possibility we may have some kind of news and/or information.


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## Brennok (Dec 23, 2005)

I am guessing this probably won't work with the DirecTiVo either. 
http://www.tivo.com/ipad thanks to www.zatznotfunny.com


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Yup...and 2 of those cycles have been missed for the new HD TiVobox.
> 
> Despite several of us having no interest in actually getting one of these units, we're committed to learn what we can at CES in 44 days from now, and report back whatever we learn.
> 
> For the TiVo fans - we attempted that last year, only to be told there was nothing new last January. This coming January, there seems to be a higher possibility we may have some kind of news and/or information.


Have fun at CES, but don't get your hopes up that you'll see anything new on the DirecTiVo front.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Brennok said:


> If anything I am surprised we haven't seen any Coyote leaks whatsoever. Then again TiVo beta testers due seem to respect the NDA, not that that is a bad thing at all, but just not as fun for us.


I'm not 100% sure it's in the field yet or not (testing). It might be as it was supposed to have been about a month back .. however, that was delayed. That's pretty much all I know right now.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

ATARI said:


> Have fun at CES, but don't get your hopes up that you'll see anything new on the DirecTiVo front.


Thanks...not holding my breath (I'd look terrble as I turn purple anyway )...but we'll share anything we learn there.


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

DogLover said:


> Are you sure that TiVo said that it was DirecTV "requirement" changes? I thought that I remembered that they just said "platform changes". That could just mean that TiVo decided to keep up with DirecTV platform changes, not that DirecTV required it.


You are correct, come to think of it. They did say platform not requirements. Please excuse the assumption that one was related to the other. We don't know that for sure.


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I suspect having missed 2 holiday seasons now passed the original target date...TiVo has lost tons in potential sales dollars.
> 
> Still thinking we may see a pre-production unit at CES in 45 days from now, if they're indeed going to come out with a DirecTV TiVo-based HD DVR in early 2011 some time. If so....several DBSTalkers will have their onsite eyes open and cameras ready.


I wish I could go to that. I would love to see it too. I will anxiously await the reports online.


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

harsh said:


> If DIRECTV were an active participant in the partnership, it would have probably gone quicker.


I think you have hit the nail squarely on the head.


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

bonscott87 said:


> One word. PlayOn.


Thanks, I will give it a try. If I can find one that will do the RSS aggregation for me, and with a setup this not as confusing as Tversity, I would love it.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

harsh said:


> If DIRECTV were an active participant in the partnership, it would have probably gone quicker.





CuriousMark said:


> I think you have hit the nail squarely on the head.


I can agree with this as well .. DIRECTV is likely going more by the letter of the contract and doing it's part (even on time). But it's unlikely DIRECTV is pushing TiVo to go faster.

DIRECTV will have to kick it into gear a bit once the thing is ready as they will be doing the marketing.


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

Brennok said:


> I am guessing this probably won't work with the DirecTiVo either.
> http://www.tivo.com/ipad thanks to www.zatznotfunny.com


Probably not, I would guess that the HR2x platform uses a completely different network interface for remote control, and the video content available for it would also be different. A different custom app could be written for it if there were enough users. I suspect the standard HR2Xs would get a custom app first though. I see the beginning of one from a third party developer being talked about here.

It can happen, I just wouldn't hold my breath.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

CuriousMark said:


> Probably not, I would guess that the HR2x platform uses a completely different network interface for remote control, and the video content available for it would also be different. A different custom app could be written for it if there were enough users. I suspect the standard HR2Xs would get a custom app first though. I see the beginning of one from a third party developer being talked about here.
> 
> It can happen, I just wouldn't hold my breath.


There's a whole thread showing how to use the iPad/iPhone using IP control for the HD receivers/DVRs. You can do it right now.

Mike


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

MicroBeta said:


> There's a whole thread showing how to use the iPad/iPhone using IP control for the HD receivers/DVRs. You can do it right now.
> 
> Mike


All I said was that the way DirecTV does it may not be the same as the way TiVo does it, so that porting the app will be a bit more work. It will certainly be doable by anyone who feels it is worth their while.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

CuriousMark said:


> Thanks, I will give it a try. If I can find one that will do the RSS aggregation for me, and with a setup this not as confusing as Tversity, I would love it.


It'll do custom RSS feeds. BUT I found that having the file locally is a lot better then streaming via the Internet.

So I use Miro (free of course) to download all the video podcasts I desire (via RSS). I can then watch them anywhere on my home network. Configure PlayOn (or your favorite DLNA server) to share out the Miro download folder and viola!...all your video podcasts are now available on your HR2x and is a local file so at best quality and no Internet hiccups.

Thinking about all this makes me appreciate even more my HTPC where I have video podcasts, RSS feeds, etc. all integrated into Windows Media Center. It's nice jumping from live TV, DVR'd programs, Hulu, Netflix, RSS feeds, etc. all with a remote and one single interface.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

CuriousMark said:


> All I said was that the way DirecTV does it may not be the same as the way TiVo does it, so that porting the app will be a bit more work. It will certainly be doable by anyone who feels it is worth their while.


 I suspect the ultimate goal is to have an actual app but you can use IP control to create a custom UI...buttons and all. However, it's all there and I gotta believe it's coming. Scheduling, remote control operations, etc.

Mike


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## Brennok (Dec 23, 2005)

Doug Brott said:


> I'm not 100% sure it's in the field yet or not (testing). It might be as it was supposed to have been about a month back .. however, that was delayed. That's pretty much all I know right now.


I know someone posted they would be getting theirs that week which was about 2-3 weeks ago, but they have been quiet since. They could have also been just making things up.

Everyone I know who does testing doesn't have Directv so they weren't invited to this project.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Brennok said:


> I know someone posted they would be getting theirs that week which was about 2-3 weeks ago, but they have been quiet since. They could have also been just making things up.
> 
> Everyone I know who does testing doesn't have Directv so they weren't invited to this project.


It's probably safe to assume that once the test cycles start...it will last for a number of months before any sort of a public release. That's typical for new hardware introductions.


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## NFLnut (Sep 29, 2006)

I've been a TiVo owner and DirecTiVo owner since early 2000. In fact, I still use a DSR6000. It is solid compared to my HR20 which is laggy and glitchy. I look forward to seeing a new DirecTiVo. I will order two the day it becomes available.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

NFLnut said:


> I've been a TiVo owner and DirecTiVo owner since early 2000. In fact, I still use a DSR6000. It is solid compared to my HR20 which is laggy and glitchy. I look forward to seeing a new DirecTiVo. *I will order two the day it becomes available*.


Cool...then there's at least those 2 TiVo can count on... :lol:

Now that we're nearing the end of the year...I suspect we'll hear more news after the holidays.


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## litzdog911 (Jun 23, 2004)

NFLnut said:


> I've been a TiVo owner and DirecTiVo owner since early 2000. In fact, I still use a DSR6000. It is solid compared to my HR20 which is laggy and glitchy. I look forward to seeing a new DirecTiVo. I will order two the day it becomes available.


Good thing that Tivo's first releases are never "laggy or glitchy"


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

litzdog911 said:


> Good thing that Tivo's first releases are never "laggy or glitchy"


Or "Buggy"!!! :lol:

I spent a year debugging my HR10-150 when it first came out with various problems.


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## litzdog911 (Jun 23, 2004)

richierich said:


> Or "Buggy"!!! :lol:
> 
> I spent a year debugging my HR10-150 when it first came out with various problems.


I remember all too well the early HR10-250 teething pains. Not to mention paying $1000 for it!


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

litzdog911 said:


> I remember all too well the early HR10-250 teething pains. Not to mention paying $1000 for it!


Yeah, I only had to pay $900 because I was Number 22 on Robert's Prepaid List but it was fun and when I first watched HDNET I was Stunned at the Clarity and now it is just common place to see HD but I can't or will not watch SD.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

NFLnut said:


> I've been a TiVo owner and DirecTiVo owner since early 2000. In fact, I still use a DSR6000. It is solid compared to my HR20 which is laggy and glitchy. I look forward to seeing a new DirecTiVo. I will order two the day it becomes available.





litzdog911 said:


> Good thing that Tivo's first releases are never "laggy or glitchy"


I've been a TiVo owner and DirecTiVo owner since 1999. Up until a week ago, I still used my HR10-250. It was solid compared to my HR21 which was laggy and glitchy. I look forward to seeing a new DirecTiVo.

I will *not* replace my two MRV'd HR24s as soon as the new DirecTiVo becomes available; first I'll wait to see about those expected bugs - and also to see what expected features DirecTV has suppressed, if any.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

richierich said:


> Yeah, I only had to pay $900 because I was Number 22 on Robert's Prepaid List but it was fun and when I first watched HDNET I was Stunned at the Clarity and now it is just common place to see HD but I can't or will not watch SD.


Yeah...seems like only about 100 years ago now...


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

Syzygy said:


> I've been a TiVo owner and DirecTiVo owner since 1999. Up until a week ago, I still used my HR10-250. It was solid compared to my HR21 which was laggy and glitchy. I look forward to seeing a new DirecTiVo.
> 
> I will *not* replace my two MRV'd HR24s as soon as the new DirecTiVo becomes available; first I'll wait to see about those expected bugs - and also to see what expected features DirecTV has suppressed, if any.


depends on your definition and recollection of "laggy and glitchy" when compared to the HR10. We must have had different models in different universes, the first two that I had at inception brought a whole new definition to the term coffee break - could fly down to columbia, plant a coffee tree, wait for it to mature, pick, dry and roast the beans, fly back, grind the beans and make a cup of coffee before theunit was ready to go again.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Yeah...seems like only about 100 years ago now...


Oh yes but it was only 8 1/2 years ago but with the Birthing Pains it seemed like forever before we would ever get it to work as Advertised. Alot of problems with the HDMI Ports, etc. so I wonder and would expect this Puppy to have the same Birthing Pains also.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

wingrider01 said:


> The first two that I had at inception brought a whole new definition to the term coffee break - could fly down to columbia, plant a coffee tree, wait for it to mature, pick, dry and roast the beans, fly back, grind the beans and make a cup of coffee before the unit was ready to go again.


Don't Mince Your Words and let us know how you really feel about it, was is SLOOOOOWWWWW!!!!:lol:


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

richierich said:


> Oh yes but it was *only 8 1/2 years ago *but with the Birthing Pains it seemed like forever before we would ever get it to work as Advertised. Alot of problems with the HDMI Ports, etc. so I wonder and would expect this Puppy to have the same Birthing Pains also.


Thats 8 millenniums in computer years....


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## CompuDude (Jan 27, 2003)

Syzygy said:


> I've been a TiVo owner and DirecTiVo owner since 1999. Up until a week ago, I still used my HR10-250. It was solid compared to my HR21 which was laggy and glitchy. I look forward to seeing a new DirecTiVo.
> 
> I will *not* replace my two MRV'd HR24s as soon as the new DirecTiVo becomes available; first I'll wait to see about those expected bugs - and also to see what expected features DirecTV has suppressed, if any.


Why did you stop using your HR10-250 a week ago?

My wife is a Tivo diehard. We have the HR10-250 HD DirecTivo in the bedroom, which she rules. All of her crappy shows get recorded there, along with most of the shows we both watch.

I have an HR21-700 in the living room, which is where I rule... all of MY crappy shows get recorded there. (LOL) Along with most of the shows that we both watch.

There are a two times per week, at the moment, where we have 3-4 shows on in the same timeslot, so they have to be split between the two DVRs and viewed on the respective systems only.

I would LOVE to be able to transfer shows between the two, so I certainly hope the new Tivo DVRs can do that. But considering it's only a couple of shows at issue, I'm not dying for it. At this point, I would be quite happy with something as simple as an updated HR10-250 that could decode the MPEG4 channels, so we could have some freaking HD in the bedroom again. That takes care of the majority of my wish list right there. My wife couldn't care less about HD. And frankly, the reality shows that fill her season pass list don't really benefit from it much, so I almost understand her apathy. To me, any other features the new HD DirecTivo's bring will be icing on the cake... a cake that I plan to eat with or without icing.

Personally, there are things I enjoy about both interfaces. It took time to get used to it (I didn't like the DTV HD-DVRs much at first), but I've grown accustomed to each. They each have strengths, and many areas where they are simply tied. (I'd love more than 40 series in my DTV DVR's prioritizer, for instance, and I certainly prefer Tivo's real 30-second skip to DTV's 30-second FF presses... and I've missed fewer shows recording to Tivo issues than DTV DVR issues. I like the show continuing in the background while working with menus on the DTV DVR, though, and there are a few other things that are nice, too.) The Tivo-style copying between units and the DTV DVR MRV option seem pretty well tied, IMO. Different ways of doing the same thing. I don't care about having to delete a show twice in the least. Protects me from accidental deletions! And does the DTC DVR offer a way to undelete recently-deleted shows? If so, I haven't found it. Tivo wins that one big time unless I've just missed something.

But still, personally, I'd be fine with replacing the DirecTivo we have now with a new DirecTV HD DVR if that was a viable option. I'm NOT fine with having to replace my wife, however, so that option is not on the table! :lol: I look forward to making her VERY happy with the new DirecTivos finally come how. Crossing my fingers for January 2011!


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

CompuDude said:


> I certainly prefer Tivo's real 30-second skip to DTV's 30-second FF presses.


Personally, I prefer the slip but I am not sure you know you can do skip on the DirecTV DVRs.

Do a keyword search for 30SKIP and it will become active. 30SLIP to go back.

At least you can have one thing working the way you prefer it on all your boxes.


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## CompuDude (Jan 27, 2003)

tonyd79 said:


> Personally, I prefer the slip but I am not sure you know you can do skip on the DirecTV DVRs.
> 
> Do a keyword search for 30SKIP and it will become active. 30SLIP to go back.
> 
> At least you can have one thing working the way you prefer it on all your boxes.


Srsly? :eek2:

Sweet!!!! I'll search now. That would definitely help.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

CompuDude said:


> Why did you stop using your HR10-250 a week ago?
> 
> My wife is a Tivo diehard. We have the HR10-250 HD DirecTivo in the bedroom, which she rules. All of her crappy shows get recorded there, along with most of the shows we both watch.
> 
> ...


My story is a lot like yours; it's uncanny.

My wife, like yours, didn't want to give up the TiVo UI she was used to just to get more HD. But on 31 Oct, after over 4 years of faithful service with only an occasional reset (sometimes spontaneous, but usually forced by a glitch), our HR10 started showing multiple signs of imminent failure: Two spontaneous reboots in a day, raster incoherence that required a one-hour resting period to recover from, then another temporary raster failure after the restart. Customer Retention offered me a Whole Home system with a second HR2x (which turned out to be an HR24) for a total of $128, which I accepted. (I did not mention that my HR10 was on its last legs.







)

BTW, TBlazer07 (Grumpy Grampy) posted in AVSForum on 01 Nov: _*"They raised MRV from $149 to $199 beginning 11/3."*_

A big advantage of MRV, for us, is that the SL limit is increased from 50 to 100, so that I no longer have to use cumbersome Boolean AutoRecord SLs to capture all the shows we want. Now I record CBS and ABC series on one box and NBC and Fox shows on the other, and there are never any unresolvable conflicts.

It didn't take my wife long to get used to the HR2x interface. (She had been watching me use that UI for a couple of years, which helped.) On the HR10, she was not all that adept at setting up autorecord wishlist items (roughly analogous to the HR24's ARSLs) or managing conflicts, and that's still the case with the new UI. But there are fewer conflicts now.



CompuDude said:


> I certainly prefer Tivo's real 30-second skip to DTV's 30-second FF presses...


Looks like you haven't discovered the trick of searching for 30SKIP, which replaces the 30-second "slip" with a true 30-second skip. (To revert, search for 30SLIP.) And, unlike TiVo's Select-Play-Select sequences, the change stays in effect if you reset the box.



CompuDude said:


> But still, personally, I'd be fine with replacing the DirecTivo we have now with a new DirecTV HD DVR if that was a viable option.


I'm hoping to replace my two HR24s with MPEG-4 DirecTivos, but I'm no longer champing at the bit for them. I can't/won't do without MRV or copying. I *don't* like the show continuing in the background while I work with menus; I expect the TiVo will make that optional. I wish there was an undelete; the TiVo will have that. I hate the pollution of search results with PPV, VOD, and Channels I Don't Get; TiVo will provide a way around that unless DirecTV's all-powerful marketing department forces TiVo to cripple their new box. I sure hope the new TiVo allows one-button keep and one-button record, and shows the Record icon in the Guide and in search-result lists. Bookmarks are another nice D* feature.


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## CompuDude (Jan 27, 2003)

Syzygy said:


> My story is a lot like yours; it's uncanny.
> 
> My wife, like yours, didn't want to give up the TiVo UI she was used to just to get more HD. But on 31 Oct, after over 4 years of faithful service with only an occasional reset (sometimes spontaneous, but usually forced by a glitch), our HR10 started showing multiple signs of imminent failure: Two spontaneous reboots in a day, raster incoherence that required a one-hour resting period to recover from, then another temporary raster failure after the restart. Customer Retention offered me a Whole Home system with a second HR2x (which turned out to be an HR24) for a total of $128, which I accepted. (I did not mention that my HR10 was on its last legs.
> 
> ...


I saw the post about the price increase... bummer, to be sure. Unless I get a second DTV DVR in here, though, it's irrelevant, since I'm likely to be one DTV DVR and one DirecTivo for the foreseeable future. It'll be worth every penny if it turns out the new DirecTivo's DO support MRV along with an HR2x DVR, though. I love the theory, I just don't think my wife will willingly give up Tivo for that feature alone, so unless the new Tivo is amazing enough that I leave the HR2x platform for the new DirecTivos, we're likely to have mismatched systems.

At the moment I'm living within the SL limit, but barely. As show seasons end, I have to be careful to trim them off the list and add back the newly-returning shows. Annoying, and I'm sure I'll miss some every now and then. (bittorrent to the rescue for those missed episodes!) But for now, at least, I'm within the limits. If barely.

I (like you, I suspect) would not really be sorry at this point if the HR10-250 up and died at this point. Fortunately for her, at this point, I'm not annoyed by the situation enough to do anything to "encourage" the HR10-250's departure from the land of the living...

I DO like the Tivo interface. Quite a bit. If the upcoming D* DirecTivo's actually do demonstrate the forward-thinking features that Tivo used to be known for, and they offer decent MRV capabilities, I would quite cheerfully chuck the D* DVR and go for a pair of DirecTivo's instead. I'm not married to either option, at this point... my wife is.  If they dropped all plans for new DirecTivo's, this would all be simpler.  Of course, other than the presence of a screen saver on my CRT-based HDTV (saves me from burn-in), I'm trying to think if there's anything in the HR2x UI that I actually prefer over the Tivo UI, and haven't been able to really think of anything I truly prefer. (other than the potential for MRV, at least, which I can't currently take advantage of)

I'm going to be saddened if I learn that the DirecTivo's really are just essentially HR10-250's with added MPEG4 decoders and no other changes worth mentioning. It seems like all the current momentum is on the HR2x side. I guess at this point all I can do is cross my fingers...


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

CompuDude said:


> ... It'll be worth every penny if it turns out the new DirecTivo's DO support MRV along with an HR2x DVR, though...


I'll be very surprised if MRV will be possible between the new DirecTiVo and the HR2x. (We don't even have a hint yet as to whether the DirecTiVo will do streaming at all.)



CompuDude said:


> I'm going to be saddened if I learn that the DirecTivo's really are just essentially HR10-250's with added MPEG4 decoders and no other changes worth mentioning. It seems like all the current momentum is on the HR2x side...


Me too. But if that's all there is, then no one will want them, even if they are relatively bug-free. I'm sure the delay in releasing the new DirecTiVo is mainly due to having to keep up with the HR2x as it adds new features such as DECA and MRV - and belatedly, with the HR24, adequate speed.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> I'll be very surprised if MRV will be possible between the new DirecTiVo and the HR2x. (We don't even have a hint yet as to whether the DirecTiVo will do streaming at all.)


I don't know. I think there have been a lot of hints regarding this if you just look around a bit.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> I don't know. I think there have been a lot of hints regarding this if you just look around a bit.


...this is itself a hint? 

Mike


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## CompuDude (Jan 27, 2003)

MicroBeta said:


> ...this is itself a hint?
> 
> Mike


We can only hope.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

CompuDude said:


> We can only hope.


I'm guessing you didn't look too hard ....


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

The longer I'm on this forum, the more Doug reminds me of Yoda


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

ATARI said:


> The longer I'm on this forum, the more Doug reminds me of Yoda


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

ATARI said:


> The longer I'm on this forum, the more Doug reminds me of Yoda


Obviously...seen him in person you have... :lol:


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

Driven into exile he was.


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## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> I don't know. I think there have been a lot of hints regarding this if you just look around a bit.


Any hint about a possible new release date?


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

jacmyoung said:


> Any hint about a possible new release date?


The hope is we'll learn alot more in about a month at the Consumer Electronics Show. If they have something brewing in the next 6 months...it'll likely be known there...

Several of us intend to visit the TiVo meeting rooms to see what we can find out and share.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Seeing as Tivo wasn't mentioned once in the latest DirecTV Investor "2 yr roadmap" presentation one has to wonder if it will ever come out.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

bonscott87 said:


> Seeing as Tivo wasn't mentioned once in the latest DirecTV Investor "2 yr roadmap" presentation one has to wonder if it will ever come out.


Good point.

Last year at CES...all we got was a "it's coming in 2010", which of course has been delayed.

We'll know soon what this year's info at CES brings.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Yes, we will!!!  Only 32 Days and 21 Hours left and we'll be on our way to Las Vegas. :hurah:


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

jacmyoung said:


> Any hint about a possible new release date?


I still think Q1/2011 .. but honestly .. I haven't heard a peep from anyone in well over 4 weeks now. Not necessarily a good sign.

I'm gonna try and track them down @ CES .. Although I won't be able to get there until Friday. Thursday is a travel day.


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## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

Good deal! Hope you guys have more fun at the CES than last year (not specific to the TiVo unit) now that the consumers seem to get into the buying mode more, I hope there is still time for the manufactures to take the advantage of the trend.


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## MikeS. (Dec 4, 2010)

My wife is addicted to the Tivo UI that I'm still running a Hughes HDVR-2 in the living room for her. This unit has been repaired once by Weaknees and is on it's 3rd or 4th HD. I have a 2nd HDVR-2 that is in transit to them for repair and a new HD. It will be the spare when it gets back.

I also have an H-22 in the living room that will be replaced by an HR Monday. I finally bought an HDTV. 

I'm off to do a search on 30skip.


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## jal (Mar 3, 2005)

A few months ago, I grew tired of all of the delays with the new Directivo. I was at a Blockbuster going out of business sale, and picked up an HD Tivo for $99. Called Time Warner, and had cable "installed." 

It's in quotes because what actually occurred is the installer placed a cable line from the curb over the grass to my home. He said someone would be out in a few days to bury it. I think that was about 4 monts ago--its still there. The installer also didn't bring the cable cards as promised by a phone CSR. Told me I had to order in on-line. Two weeks go by, no cable cards, and my calls to have the wire buried were ignored. I called to disconnect. A month later I received an email that a cable card was on the way.

So, I was glad I didnt disconnect Directv, but to my suprise, it wasnt working. So, I went to the basement to see what was going on. The cable installer had cut 4 jumper wires from the ground block to the WB6-16. There was no reason to do this other than to interfere with Directv service. I replaced the cut cables and I was back in business.

I guess I shouldn't be suprised, but in this day of competition, one would think Time Warner would get its act together. Only thing I liked about it in the short time I had it was the quality and quanity of premium channels. They give you one of their boxes included in the price. Customer service is just so poor. I didn't think it could be so bad even if intentional.


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## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

jal said:


> A few months ago, I grew tired of all of the delays with the new Directivo. I was at a Blockbuster going out of business sale, and picked up an HD Tivo for $99. Called Time Warner, and had cable "installed."
> 
> It's in quotes because what actually occurred is the installer placed a cable line from the curb over the grass to my home. He said someone would be out in a few days to bury it. I think that was about 4 monts ago--its still there. The installer also didn't bring the cable cards as promised by a phone CSR. Told me I had to order in on-line. Two weeks go by, no cable cards, and my calls to have the wire buried were ignored. I called to disconnect. A month later I received an email that a cable card was on the way.
> 
> ...


Hmmm, I did not know Blockbuster had some going out of business sale, do they still carry the HD TiVo now?


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

jacmyoung said:


> Good deal! Hope you guys have more fun at the CES than last year (not specific to the TiVo unit) now that the consumers seem to get into the buying mode more, I hope there is still time for the manufactures to take the advantage of the trend.


Last year was indeed disappointing regarding news on TiVo.

Personally...I have little interest in any new HD Tivo DVR...but as a long-time techy-gadget-geek...I have an interest in new technology anyway.

That said, and more important...since some of us are fortunate enough to go to CES...we feel we have a moral obligation to seek the information for others and report back at DBSTalk on what we learn. Certainly there are still Tivo fans out there, and have been patiently been waiting through this lengthy delay period for news.

We'll do what we can to find out any news and pass that on like we have in past years (yes, that will include photos if there is anything to photograph).


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Yes, I am going to ask alot of questions at the TiVo Room as I don't believe this puppy will ever see daylight.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

richierich said:


> Yes, I am going to ask alot of questions at the TiVo Room as I don't believe this puppy will ever see daylight.


Or...they'll give you another stuffed TiVo doll and ask you to leave...:lol:

Not to worry...several of us will be there and share whatever we learn. Honest.


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## jal (Mar 3, 2005)

Many of the stores Blockbuster closed. I think they were in bankruptcy. Whether any ones that remain open still have TIVOs I don't know.


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

richierich said:


> Yes, I am going to ask alot of questions at the TiVo Room as I don't believe this puppy will ever see daylight.


Agree.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

I got this email about 11 hours ago (Monday afternoon):


> _We plan on adding more testers to our existing DIRECTV / TiVo beta program this month. If you'd like to test this product please login to the Coyote program located at https://fieldtrials.tivo.com and complete the "Still interested in testing" survey as soon as possible. Thank you, TiVo Field Trials Team_


But this time I'm not biting, 'cuz I don't want to stop using my MRV'd HR24's.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Syzygy said:


> I got this email about 11 hours ago (Monday afternoon):
> 
> But this time I'm not biting, 'cuz I don't want to stop using my MRV'd HR24's.


At least it shows the DirecTV HD Tivobox is not a dead program... :shrug:

I suspect we'll learn more next month at CES.


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## Brennok (Dec 23, 2005)

Syzygy said:


> I got this email about 11 hours ago (Monday afternoon):
> 
> But this time I'm not biting, 'cuz I don't want to stop using my MRV'd HR24's.


Any reason you can't do both?


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Brennok said:


> Any reason you can't do both?


Likely not...but it might make some kinds of testing a bit more cumbersome.


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## trainman (Jan 9, 2008)

I _am_ interested, but the TiVo Field Trials site isn't giving me access to anything called Coyote, or a "Still interested in testing" survey.


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## Brennok (Dec 23, 2005)

trainman said:


> I _am_ interested, but the TiVo Field Trials site isn't giving me access to anything called Coyote, or a "Still interested in testing" survey.


It would only be if you were previously invited.


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## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Likely not...but it might make some kinds of testing a bit more cumbersome.


Wouldn't they need integrated MRV/Tivo systems tested as well?


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Drucifer said:


> Wouldn't they need integrated MRV/Tivo systems tested as well?


Perhaps...that's what is an unknown....if the new HD Tivo units support WHDS (MRV). Once would think they would...but there is no confirmation of it either.

If not...testing gets a bit more dicey...


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## Brennok (Dec 23, 2005)

Drucifer said:


> Wouldn't they need integrated MRV/Tivo systems tested as well?





hdtvfan0001 said:


> Perhaps...that's what is an unknown....if the new HD Tivo units support WHDS (MRV). Once would think they would...but there is no confirmation of it either.
> 
> If not...testing gets a bit more dicey...


I would imagine it might depend on where the testing is also. I can't speak for TiVo projects, but betas I have been in the past usually had focused testing. Each week or so focused on the main processes and the further along they implemented features so if the units do end up supporting MRV it might not be to that point yet.

This also might be why they are inviting more people to start expanding to test with other setups.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

I still expect to see the new TiVo @ CES. I'm still hopeful of a Q1/2011 availability, but having been through this with TiVo before, it's simply going to be an I'll believe it when I see it moment. I certainly wouldn't be shocked if there are more delays.


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## Brennok (Dec 23, 2005)

I definitely agree. I am hoping this new round of invites is a good thing though. 

I didn't keep up with previous releases of the older DirecTiVos so no idea if this news is par for the course though.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Doug Brott said:


> I still expect to see the new TiVo @ CES. I'm still hopeful of a Q1/2011 availability, but having been through this with TiVo before, it's simply going to be an I'll believe it when I see it moment. I certainly wouldn't be shocked if there are more delays.


I second those motions.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Brennok said:


> I definitely agree. I am hoping this new round of invites is a good thing though.
> 
> I didn't keep up with previous releases of the older DirecTiVos so no idea if this news is par for the course though.


I've never known TiVo to actually make a deadline that they've publicly set for themselves. Sometimes it's soon (within 90 days of deadline) and that can generally be considered "on time" .. but TiVo has all too often had multi-year delays.


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## Brennok (Dec 23, 2005)

Doug Brott said:


> I've never known TiVo to actually make a deadline that they've publicly set for themselves. Sometimes it's soon (within 90 days of deadline) and that can generally be considered "on time" .. but TiVo has all too often had multi-year delays.


Oh I definitely agree with this.

I was more talking about details about beta testing and that before the H10-250 came out. I didn't know when the H10-250 was testing if we heard news or saw posts like these to give us an idea on where in the process they might be.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Shoot the hr10-250 was only 9 months late....


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## litzdog911 (Jun 23, 2004)

inkahauts said:


> Shoot the hr10-250 was only 9 months late....


Seemed a lot longer to those of us anxiously waiting for those first ones to ship


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Doug Brott said:


> I still expect to see the new TiVo @ CES. I'm still hopeful of a Q1/2011 availability, but having been through this with TiVo before, it's simply going to be an I'll believe it when I see it moment. I certainly wouldn't be shocked if there are more delays.


I couldn't have said it better. I'll Believe It When I See It!!!


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## dirtyblueshirt (Dec 7, 2008)

"Syzygy" said:


> I got this email about 11 hours ago (Monday afternoon):
> 
> But this time I'm not biting, 'cuz I don't want to stop using my MRV'd HR24's.


I got the same email. No further comment.


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## codespy (Mar 30, 2006)

dirtyblueshirt said:


> I got the same email. No further comment.


:new_popco Wish I could get one.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

The best I can tell, we're definitely getting closer on this TiVo thing .. seems there's lots of activity but nobody talking .. Is the absence of evidence actually evidence of existence?


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

It will be nice to see the TiVo unit ship.

It's always obvious that we have lots of different wants and desires expressed here at DBSTalk,

For those that prefer the TiVo interface to the HR2x, then the new box may be a great option for them, assuming they can live with any of the differences with the HR2x line.

Personally, I've been happy with the HR2x, but now everyone will have their needs met, while we're all on the same TV provider. 

Perfect balance ... for those that want TiVo, here you go ... for those that don't have a preference, here to go ... best of both worlds.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

If I was asked in 2007, I would have have jumped all over a new DirecTiVo. I seriously doubt there would be anything it has that I would be willing to give up my HR's for....although, ya never know. :lol:

Mike


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Mike Bertelson said:


> If I was asked in 2007, I would have have jumped all over a new DirecTiVo. I seriously doubt there would be anything it has that I would be willing to give up my HR's for....although, ya never know. :lol:


Similar thoughts here.

Any new technology on our favorite TV provider is a good thing, especially for those preferring options ... and one of those options is getting closer. 

Sometimes it even helps to have a little competitiveness going on, while it's all still in the DirecTV family.


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

Sixto said:


> Similar thoughts here.
> 
> Any new technology on our favorite TV provider is a good thing, especially for those preferring options ... and one of those options is getting closer.
> 
> Sometimes it even helps to have a little competitiveness going on, while it's all still in the DirecTV family.


Competition is a very good thing for consumers, although I wouldn't consider the D* TIVO marathon vaporware real competition. Even when it does appear, the price point may not result in much competition either. Time will tell.


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## dennisj00 (Sep 27, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> The best I can tell, we're definitely getting closer on this TiVo thing .. seems there's lots of activity but nobody talking .. Is the absence of evidence actually evidence of existence?


Seems to have been for the last couple of years !!


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## Barry in Conyers (Jan 14, 2008)

I have never used a Tivo for any length of time, but the interface did not strike me as being enough better to make me run out and buy a D* Tivo (or whatever it is called).

Lack of bugs might be another matter. The HR24-500 was introduced 10 months ago and has still has significant problems (some from the very beginning and a couple of new ones introduced with 0x419). After a while, the lack of progress starts to make an alternative look more attractive.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Barry in Conyers said:


> After a while, the lack of progress starts to make an alternative look more attractive.


For many people, the grass is always greener on the other side.


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## Barry in Conyers (Jan 14, 2008)

Doug Brott said:


> For many people, the grass is always greener on the other side.


And for super cheerleaders, there is no grass except at DirecTV.


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

Barry in Conyers said:


> And for super cheerleaders, there is no grass except at DirecTV.


Same can be said for TiVo fan bois.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Barry in Conyers said:


> And for super cheerleaders, there is no grass except at DirecTV.


Many people are fans of many different things .. If you're implication is that I like DIRECTV. You are correct. That is why I have the service. Last I checked, The DIRECTV TiVo will work on the DIRECTV service (when available).

As for "lack of progress" .. keep in mind that the DIRECTV TiVo was announce in September 2008 for late 2009 delivery. Here we are late 2010 and we're just now sniffing a beta test period. TiVo epitomizes the phrase "lack of progress" when it comes to getting something out the door.


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## Barry in Conyers (Jan 14, 2008)

Doug,

OK, so you like DirecTV. I also like DirecTV (and have been a customer for a long time), but that does not mean that I have to kiss the D* corporate ass, ignore the ongoing problems and defend everything they do.

Based on what I read here, there is no doubt that the D* HDR with Tivo has gone nowhere very slowly, but that is a Tivo problem and I don't really care other than the fact that competition is generally good for customers.

My point was and is that the long standing problems with the HR24's make an alternative look more attractive, even if the alternative is the long delayed D* HDR with Tivo.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Barry in Conyers said:


> Doug,
> 
> OK, so you like DirecTV. I also like DirecTV (and have been a customer for a long time), but that does not mean that I have to kiss the D* corporate ass, ignore the ongoing problems and defend everything they do.
> 
> ...


Perhaps some of the HR24's have had certain problems....but many have been solid. My HR24-100 is the best HD DVR owned to date, and an exponential improvement of the old Tivobox unit that was retired here in 2006.

While I have no interest in the new TiVo unit, I respect the fact that there are some loyalists out there. For that reason, I follow it, keep my ears open, and will also check on anything that can be learned at CES next month.

I suspect you'd find that the Mods here have the same approach....get information and share. Since it's clear that TiVo has oversold their product launch and under-delivered....there's no reason to point the finger at DirecTV on that topic.

On the optimistic side, we may learn some information in less than 30 days that will shed some light for the TiVo aficionados.


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

In the midst of all this childish bickering about whose box is better, etc., I'm anxious for the new DirecTIVO for one main reason now: curiosity. 

The unit might be better; it might be worse. It might be, for all intents and purposes, "same ole same old." However, I'm simply just curious about it.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Lord Vader said:


> In the midst of all this childish bickering about whose box is better, etc., I'm anxious for the new DirecTIVO for one main reason now: curiosity.
> 
> The unit might be better; it might be worse. It might be, for all intents and purposes, "same ole same old." However, I'm simply just curious about it.


Exactly!


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Lord Vader said:


> In the midst of all this childish bickering about whose box is better, etc., I'm anxious for the new DirecTIVO for one main reason now: curiosity.
> 
> The unit might be better; it might be worse. It might be, for all intents and purposes, "same ole same old." However, I'm simply just curious about it.





Sixto said:


> Exactly!


Curiosity is my excuse too. 

We'll share, of course, if we learn anything at CES.....but certainly we have some here who like TiVo....and despite the pros and cons, and some liking it and some not....we'll still make sure and share the info.


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## Araxen (Dec 18, 2005)

I hate my HR20-100(slow and clunky) and I can't wait for this Tivo unit to come out!


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## Brennok (Dec 23, 2005)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Curiosity is my excuse too.
> 
> We'll share, of course, if we learn anything at CES.....but certainly we have some here who like TiVo....and despite the pros and cons, and some liking it and some not....we'll still make sure and share the info.


Curiosity here also, though I keep up on these things since I have a few family and friends who refuse to leave DirecTV due to the Sunday Ticket. They keep asking me about the TiVo since some of them are waiting to make the jump to HD for it.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Brennok said:


> Curiosity here also, though I keep up on these things since I have a few family and friends who refuse to leave DirecTV due to the Sunday Ticket. They keep asking me about the TiVo since some of them are waiting to make the jump to HD for it.


I suspect any new Tivobox might bring a few folks over to DirecTV and keep a few old TiVo loyalists....but not much more than that.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Brennok said:


> Curiosity here also, though I keep up on these things since I have a few family and friends who refuse to leave DirecTV due to the Sunday Ticket. They keep asking me about the TiVo since some of them are waiting to make the jump to HD for it.


All my friends that were in similar situation didn't care anymore after dual buffers were added to the HR2x series. They could care less about Tivo now and certainly won't pay extra for it.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

bonscott87 said:


> All my friends ... didn't care anymore after dual buffers were added to the HR2x series. They could care less about Tivo now and certainly won't pay extra for it.


*All* your friends, right? A sweeping generalization like that in support of an ideological position is why no one listens any more to that kind of BS.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

bonscott87 said:


> All my friends that were in similar situation didn't care anymore after dual buffers were added to the HR2x series. They could care less about Tivo now and certainly won't pay extra for it.





Syzygy said:


> *All* your friends, right? A sweeping generalization like that in support of an ideological position is why no one listens any more to that kind of BS.


You can add all my friends to the list if it makes ya feel better. 

BS not included.


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## Brennok (Dec 23, 2005)

bonscott87 said:


> All my friends that were in similar situation didn't care anymore after dual buffers were added to the HR2x series. They could care less about Tivo now and certainly won't pay extra for it.


The problem with mine is they hate the UI of the DirecTV DVRs and with 50 series limits they would need multiple DVRs per ever TiVo they have. My father is one of the big holdouts. I put in a SD DirecTV box in one of his rooms when DirecTV forced him to upgrade his old Sony receiver since it would no longer work with ST and he only watches basic cable in there now.

The other ones already made the switch to FiOS and have the TiVo Premiere, Media Center, the TiVo HD, or a mix of the three. I don't see any of us ever coming back to DirecTV unless we moved and FiOS wasn't an option. Then we might consider it.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Brennok said:


> The problem with mine is they hate the UI of the DirecTV DVRs and with 50 series limits they would need multiple DVRs per ever TiVo they have.


....and many folks I know hate the cartoonish UI and the small hard drives on the TiVo units...

Different strokes...


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> *All* your friends, right? A sweeping generalization like that in support of an ideological position is why no one listens any more to that kind of BS.


???

He said all his friends. Not everyone everywhere. How is it a generalization to talk about all your friends?

Here is one for you: None of my friends have Dish. Not a generalization. Just fact.

Only one of my friends has Tivo (and that is because I gave it to him when I dumped Comcrap).

None of my friends has Comcast (some of my family does but no friends. They all have Fios, DirecTV or no cable/satellite.)


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## Brennok (Dec 23, 2005)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> ....and many folks I know hate the cartoonish UI and the small hard drives on the TiVo units...
> 
> Different strokes...


Oh I agree it all boils down to personal preference and usage requirements.

None of my friends have the small drives since they were so easy to upgrade though. I think the smallest drive any of them are using is the 500gb, but since they are SD that still gives them 450 hours or so. Most of us with FiOS either have servers or upgraded TiVos with 1TB or 2TB drives.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Syzygy said:


> *All* your friends, right? A sweeping generalization like that in support of an ideological position is why no one listens any more to that kind of BS.


Correct. All my friends with DirecTV have it because of Sunday Ticket. When they had to go to the HR2x to get the games in HD they hated it. Only reason was the lack of dual buffers. I'd hear about it every time we'd watch the games at someone's house. When dual buffers came and I told them how to get it they were all happy and I never heard a complaint from them again about the HR2x.

Heck, I'm the only one of my circle of friends that doesn't even have DirecTV anymore. Yea, cable is that bad around here. Everyone has DirecTV (for Sunday Ticket) or Dish of Uverse that I know. That doesn't mean everyone, that just means my friends are football loving fanatics that have DirecTV and none of them care what the UI of their DVR is, they only cared about dual buffers...for sports or course. Your friends may be different.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

bonscott87 said:


> Correct. All my friends with DirecTV have it because of Sunday Ticket. When they had to go to the HR2x to get the games in HD they hated it. Only reason was the lack of dual buffers. I'd hear about it every time we'd watch the games at someone's house. When dual buffers came and I told them how to get it they were all happy and I never heard a complaint from them again about the HR2x.
> 
> Heck, *I'm the only one of my circle of friends that doesn't even have DirecTV anymore.* Yea, cable is that bad around here. Everyone has DirecTV (for Sunday Ticket) or Dish of Uverse that I know. That doesn't mean everyone, that just means my friends are football loving fanatics that have DirecTV and none of them care what the UI of their DVR is, they only cared about dual buffers...for sports or course. Your friends may be different.


Sorry for the "BS" comment. Yes, your friends are different from mine (in their love of football and their need for Sunday Ticket).

Your "About Me" says you have DirecTV, with HR20-700, HR21-200, H21-200, Glorystar FTA (?).

Does it need to be updated?


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Syzygy said:


> Sorry for the "BS" comment. Yes, your friends are different from mine (in their love of football and their need for Sunday Ticket).
> 
> Your "About Me" says you have DirecTV, with HR20-700, HR21-200, H21-200, Glorystar FTA (?).
> 
> Does it need to be updated?


Yea, probably. I publicly on this forum dropped DirecTV about a year ago and built a HTPC instead. I get all my programming from Internet streaming and some OTA. Also still have the FTA satellite system with a Glorystar receiver for my wife's religious channels.

I miss Sunday Ticket at times but I don't miss the $120+ a month bill.

And yes, my circle of close friends revolve around the two local fantasy football leagues I'm in. If you've ever seen the show "The League" on FX...that's pretty much us.


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## bengalfreak (Sep 17, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> ....and many folks I know hate the cartoonish UI and the small hard drives on the TiVo units...
> 
> Different strokes...


Wow, gotta say that while I'm a convert to DirecTV's HD DVR's and now wouldn't pay a penny extra for a DTivo, the HR series user interface is much MORE cartoonish than Tivo's ever was.

But the guide, I'd pay an extra dollar a month just to get the Tivo guide back. Hate, hate, hate the DirecTV guide.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

bengalfreak said:


> Wow, gotta say that while I'm a convert to DirecTV's HD DVR's and now wouldn't pay a penny extra for a DTivo, the HR series user interface is much MORE cartoonish than Tivo's ever was.
> 
> But the guide, I'd pay an extra dollar a month just to get the Tivo guide back. Hate, hate, hate the DirecTV guide.


Funny how some think the UI with the HR's is boring and too straight forward, and now we have this totally alternate view.

I guess it underscores just how diverse people's taste's are in user interface design.

Personally, I think waaaaay too much emphasis is put on the UI anyway....its a means to an end. "Hating it"...that's kinda over the top...I guess I spend most of my time watching HD, rather than the guide. :shrug:

Both the HR series and TiVo units do what they need to...they only variation is how they do it and the graphical presentation. That typically comes down to personal taste.


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## Araxen (Dec 18, 2005)

The Directv UI looks like it was made for an 8-bit Nintendo.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Araxen said:


> The Directv UI looks like it was made for an 8-bit Nintendo.


Not even close.

On the other hand...each TiVo comes complete with an etch-a-sketch and box of crayons included. 

I suspect the next TiVo unit will have its own new UI, and by that time, the next HR2x units will have an updated UI as well.


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## TBlazer07 (Feb 5, 2009)

bonscott87 said:


> All my friends that were in similar situation didn't care anymore after dual buffers were added to the HR2x series. They could care less about Tivo now and certainly won't pay extra for it.


 That sounds like the same statement that 70% of the people who posted in the "Would you pay for MRV" poll made. "NO WAY - FUGGETABOUTIT! I AIN'T PAYIN' EVEN 1 CENT FOR NO MRV OR EVEN MVR FOR THAT MATTER!" :lol:


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

TBlazer07 said:


> That sounds like the same statement that 70% of the people who posted in the "Would you pay for MRV" poll made. "NO WAY - FUGGETABOUTIT! I AIN'T PAYIN' EVEN 1 CENT FOR NO MRV OR EVEN MVR FOR THAT MATTER!" :lol:


It seems the last few polls were pretty accurate as far as DBSTalkers, but of course, not the mainstream world. But WHDS/MRV has been a very popular thingy. 

In reality, I'm not sure just how well the new TiVobox will be until we firm up what's all in it. There is little doubt there is a base of at least some TiVo loyalists out there.


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## smiddy (Apr 5, 2006)

543 posts before this, and I haven't read them. I would suspect that this DirecTiVo thing isn't going to happen, I mean, it has been so long since there has been any kind of "real" news. Is it just a dream? :shrug:


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

smiddy said:


> 543 posts before this, and I haven't read them. I would suspect that this DirecTiVo thing isn't going to happen, I mean, it has been so long since there has been any kind of "real" news. Is it just a dream? :shrug:


Well we do know TiVO sent out a second round of beta test invites, so they're working on _something_.


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

Araxen said:


> The Directv UI looks like it was made for an 8-bit Nintendo.


as compared to TIVOS Windows 3.0 look and feel?


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## dgsiiinc (Jan 25, 2007)

My wife still has very fond memories of our old TiVo, and I don't think she has ever been really comfortable with our HR2X receivers. She asks every once in a while about this upcoming TiVo receiver, but even she is losing faith.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

wingrider01 said:


> as compared to TIVOS Windows 3.0 look and feel?





dgsiiinc said:


> My wife still has very fond memories of our old TiVo, and I don't think she has ever been really comfortable with our HR2X receivers. She asks every once in a while about this upcoming TiVo receiver, but even she is losing faith.


I'm with you guys on those points.

It comes down to UI personal taste I suppose. The UI alone won't get it sold....it'll actually need to do something impressive and/or different to warrant mass adoption.


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## ffemtreed (Jan 30, 2008)

I will say it again, 

I really really like the HR series receivers and they have come a long way, but 3 issues remain that will make me at least look into the TIVO if/when it comes out,

#1 the guide, I can't stand the DTV guide and even after years of using the HR I still curse under my breathe every time I press the guide button. 

#2 Remote response , esp to channel changes. Instead of cursing under my breathe I usually curse out loud when I try to change the channel and it only gets half of the numbers I pressed or delays long enough that I end up entering the number twice. 

#3 The 50 limit on series links, its a pain to have to keep my fall shows and spring shows on an excel spreadsheet and have to re input them twice a year.

I am not really too concerned on whether the guide is in HD or not, or if it looks cartoonish, or 8bit NES style. As long the features are all easily accessible and make sense I am happy. I could care less about the TIVO boinks and bings when pressing buttons, I used to like the auto suggestions that TIVO would record when it had space! 

If the new TIVO supports MRV and has the one touch recording through the guide I will probably invest in a new tivo. *this is assuming they keep the list style guide*


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## TBlazer07 (Feb 5, 2009)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> It seems the last few polls were pretty accurate as far as DBSTalkers .......


 I highly doubt it ... because when I asked just that question (you said never but did you take it?) the "I DID" response was quite high.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

ffemtreed said:


> #1 the guide, I can't stand the DTV guide and even after years of using the HR I still curse under my breathe every time I press the guide button.


FYI in case you didn't know but in the guide you can arrow left to highlight the channel number and then hit info buttom and you'll get a complete 2 week listing of programs for that channel. I know for me it was sooooo much quicker to setup movies on a movie channel for the next 2 weeks with one touch record this way then ever was with the Tivo list guide.

Not exactly the same, but may work for you and better in ways (and not in others).

I liked the Tivo list guide too back in the day but I got over it quickly with just the addition of one touch record on the HR2x. That alone made the guide much more functional for me. Then again, once I had setup my series recordings I almost never go into the guide anyway. Live TV? What's that?


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

TBlazer07 said:


> I highly doubt it ... because when I asked just that question (you said never but did you take it?) the "I DID" response was quite high.


We're still talking about the new HD Tivo, right??????????


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## ffemtreed (Jan 30, 2008)

bonscott87 said:


> FYI in case you didn't know but in the guide you can arrow left to highlight the channel number and then hit info buttom and you'll get a complete 2 week listing of programs for that channel. I know for me it was sooooo much quicker to setup movies on a movie channel for the next 2 weeks with one touch record this way then ever was with the Tivo list guide.
> 
> Not exactly the same, but may work for you and better in ways (and not in others).
> 
> I liked the Tivo list guide too back in the day but I got over it quickly with just the addition of one touch record on the HR2x. That alone made the guide much more functional for me. Then again, once I had setup my series recordings I almost never go into the guide anyway. Live TV? What's that?


Yes I know about the info button trick. The problem is that its super slow to load and still only shows like 5 or 6 shows on the screen.

Yes that one touch record is the biggest improvement over the original TIVO and if the new TIVO doesn't have the same sort of functionality I will probably just stick with the HR series and maybe figure out a way I can get HR24's to help with the speed problems.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

smiddy said:


> 543 posts before this, and I haven't read them. I would suspect that this DirecTiVo thing isn't going to happen, I mean, it has been so long since there has been any kind of "real" news. Is it just a dream? :shrug:


Your suspicion would be wrong .. It's gonna happen.


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## ffemtreed (Jan 30, 2008)

Doug Brott said:


> Your suspicion would be wrong .. It's gonna happen.


would you have said that 2.5 months ago????? I know I wrote this TIVO off for awhile until we heard about the beta program.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

ffemtreed said:


> would you have said that 2.5 months ago????? I know I wrote this TIVO off for awhile until we heard about the beta program.


Yes, I would have said that 2.5 months back.


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

Araxen said:


> The Directv UI looks like it was made for an 8-bit Nintendo.


I'd prefer an 8-bit ATARI look and feel, but that's just me.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

ffemtreed said:


> ... but 3 issues remain that will make me at least look into the TIVO if/when it comes out,
> 
> #1 the guide,
> #2 Remote response,
> #3 The 50 limit on series links,


#4 the intentional pollution of search-result lists with VOD, PPV, and channels you don't get.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

It seems like the target audience has always been TiVo enthusiasts, and Mom-and-Pop America who have a DirecTiVo and would just as well upgrade to HD with something that they're already comfortable with (TiVo), assuming pricing isn't a detriment. Also, there's probably some marketing advantage to be able to promote TiVo support.

Of 20 million subscribers, there may be a significant target audience, with pricing / upgrade program being key.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> #4 the intentional pollution of search-result lists with VOD, PPV, and channels you don't get.


Channels you don't get are largely corrected over the past several months .. If you're still seeing this, please create a thread in the HD DVR area with examples.

VOD and PPV are valid search items. One man's pollution is another man's treasure.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

Doug Brott said:


> *Channels you don't get are largely corrected over the past several months* .. If you're still seeing this, please create a thread in the HD DVR area with examples.
> 
> VOD and PPV are valid search items. One man's pollution is another man's treasure.


Shows on channels you don't get are included in search results. Even though they're grayed, they still have to be skipped over.


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## JBernardK (Aug 16, 2006)

ffemtreed said:


> Yes I know about the info button trick. The problem is that its super slow to load and still only shows like 5 or 6 shows on the screen.
> 
> Yes that one touch record is the biggest improvement over the original TIVO and if the new TIVO doesn't have the same sort of functionality I will probably just stick with the HR series and maybe figure out a way I can get HR24's to help with the speed problems.


How does one touch record work on the HR DVRs? On the Tivo you need to confirm--so I guess it is two touch record. Is that a really too much for you that love one touch?


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Sixto said:


> It seems like the target audience has always been TiVo enthusiasts, and Mom-and-Pop America who have a DirecTiVo and would just as well upgrade to HD with something that they're already comfortable with (TiVo), assuming pricing isn't a detriment. Also, there's probably some marketing advantage to be able to promote TiVo support.
> 
> Of 20 million subscribers, there may be a significant target audience, with pricing / upgrade program being key.


I suspect that the largest target audience will be those who have SD TiVo's that want to upgrade (includes the HR10-250 although I think that is minimal compared to the SD DIRECTiVos).

There will also be some devoted TiVo fans (TiVotees) that will make the switch. I fully expect this to be an MPEG-4 version of the HR10-250 with a little bit of polish added. I also expect the TiVo to have similar trick play issues with MPEG-4 and potentially channel change issues depending on how the Format is set (can it change or is it forced to a particular setting - 720p, 1080i, 1080p). I think there will be some excitement for this new device and I think there will be some disappointment with this device.

I have no clue on pricing. <pure speculation>I will take a stab in the dark and say that it will be classified very similarly to the HD-DVR. This would mean that it would cost about $199 with 2-yr lease .. $5/month for mirror fee and probably it will fall under the current $7/month DVR fee so if you already have an HR2x DVR, then you may be set on that fee. It will (of course) require $10/month for HD service and I doubt you will be able to get the DVR without adding HD service <end speculation>


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

ffemtreed said:


> Yes I know about the info button trick. The problem is that its super slow to load and still only shows like 5 or 6 shows on the screen.


If 3-4 seconds is slow then I agree. Never seemed slow to me.

Not sure what the big deal is with 5 or 6 shows at once. Why the need for more? Simply hit page down and you get the next 6. Easy peasy and quick. Not saying more wouldn't be nice but I just don't see the big deal. And I used the Tivo list guide for over 7 years.

In the end it's just a preference but I have never seen the big deal here.


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## JBernardK (Aug 16, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> I suspect that the largest target audience will be those who have SD TiVo's that want to upgrade (includes the HR10-250 although I think that is minimal compared to the SD DIRECTiVos).
> 
> There will also be some devoted TiVo fans (TiVotees) that will make the switch.


There may also be an audience of those of us that left direcTV when they went to MPEG4 and the only way you could get a DVR was with a two year commitment. The bug reports on the HR scared me and others away. I would consider returning to Directv if I could get a DVR that had unlimited season passes, a list guide, DLB, fast response from the remote etc. But actually the triple play packages offered by Comcast and FIOS are excellent when paired with an HD Tivo. So I will wait and see.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

ffemtreed said:


> Yes I know about the info button trick. The problem is that its super slow to load and still only shows like 5 or 6 shows on the screen.


Yes, it takes about 3 or 4 seconds to Load and then you are off and running and Paging only takes a second or two so what is the Big Problem??? How Spoiled are you anyway??? :lol:


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## JBernardK (Aug 16, 2006)

richierich said:


> Yes, it takes about 3 or 4 seconds to Load and then you are off and running and Paging only takes a second or two so what is the Big Problem??? How Spoiled are you anyway??? :lol:


Its instantaneousness on a Tivo HD. Bbut then some may seem to be annoyed by the Tivo logo in the corner.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

I did like the TiVo Guide and I was one of the first persons to buy an HR10-250 so I definitely like TiVo but the Info Button gets the job done and I Select what I like to record and then I am done with that channel.


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> I have no clue on pricing. <pure speculation>I will take a stab in the dark and say that it will be classified very similarly to the HD-DVR. This would mean that it would cost about $199 with 2-yr lease .. $5/month for mirror fee and probably it will fall under the current $7/month DVR fee so if you already have an HR2x DVR, then you may be set on that fee. It will (of course) require $10/month for HD service and I doubt you will be able to get the DVR without adding HD service <end speculation>


Speculation flag noted... but, why wouldn't you expect a "premium"? I just don't really see how DTV plans to market this. Why would the average consumer pick box A over box B if they are both the same price and have pretty much the same exact feature set?

Didn't they purposely get away from "the consumer needs to pick from 1 of 50 boxes" model like 10 yrs ago? Ok, actually, it was probably less then 10 yrs ago... I still had a choice of 50 boxes when I signed up in 2002.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

SledgeHammer said:


> Speculation flag noted... but, why wouldn't you expect a "premium"? I just don't really see how DTV plans to market this. Why would the average consumer pick box A over box B if they are both the same price and have pretty much the same exact feature set?
> 
> Didn't they purposely get away from "the consumer needs to pick from 1 of 50 boxes" model like 10 yrs ago? Ok, actually, it was probably less then 10 yrs ago... I still had a choice of 50 boxes when I signed up in 2002.


well, let's be clear here .. If it weren't for something that DIRECTV needed (continued support for old DVRs - at least on a technical level, a bullet proof lawsuit shield, etc.) then this deal never would have happened. Clearly DIRECTV was worried about what has now ultimately happened to DISH (still pending resolution), and DIRECTV made a play that helped DIRECTV. TiVo can benefit from a market that has 20-million subscribers.

I expect some passive marketing (you won't see it show up in TV ads or on the front page of the website for example) of the TiVo. There also may very well be a surcharge because it's clear that DIRECTV will have to give away some amount of money for at least each DIRECTiVo account and possible each DIRECTiVo box. Those direct payments may be passed on to TiVo subscribers in the form of a fee.

The reason that I'm thinking there might not be is (1) I think the HR2x is going to have more features than the TiVo .. why would people pay a premium for a product with less features and (2) I just don't think the take is going to be in the huge-number category. There will probably be marketing to get SD TiVo users to upgrade to the new TiVo, but that could very well mean an extra $10/month from the HD fee in addition to the DVR fee which is already being paid. That's a hidden bonus right now.

I'm looking forward to the actual answer just like you guys are ...


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## ffemtreed (Jan 30, 2008)

richierich said:


> Yes, it takes about 3 or 4 seconds to Load and then you are off and running and Paging only takes a second or two so what is the Big Problem??? How Spoiled are you anyway??? :lol:


I actually timed it in the past and it was more like 8 seconds to load and 3 -4 seconds between pages.


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## ffemtreed (Jan 30, 2008)

Doug Brott said:


> Channels you don't get are largely corrected over the past several months .. If you're still seeing this, please create a thread in the HD DVR area with examples.
> 
> VOD and PPV are valid search items. One man's pollution is another man's treasure.


I agree, but it sure would be nice to at least have an option to turn off PPV and VOD from search results, even if its not the "default" option.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

ffemtreed said:


> I agree, but it sure would be nice to at least have an option to turn off PPV and VOD from search results, even if its not the "default" option.


I can't argue with you there .. but I don't expect it to happen, either.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

ffemtreed said:


> I agree, but it sure would be nice to at least have an option to turn off PPV and VOD from search results, even if its not the "default" option.


At least those are arguably "channels we get". Seeing the channels we _don't_ get in search results is a bigger issue, at least for me. That's the marketing folks at work, IMHO.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

Steve said:


> At least those are arguably "channels we get". Seeing the channels we _don't_ get in search results is a bigger issue, at least for me. That's the marketing folks at work, IMHO.


*All* of it - pushing VOD, PPV, and the channels we don't get - is the doing of the marketing folks, who evidently cannot be denied anything they ask for.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> *All* of it - pushing VOD, PPV, and the channels we don't get - is the doing of the marketing folks, who evidently cannot be denied anything they ask for.


I wouldn't go that far. Folks who _want _to search for VOD or PPV would be at a disadvantage if those results weren't there, at least by default. E.g., I've set up canned searches for movies I know should be coming to PPV, but aren't there yet.


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## ffemtreed (Jan 30, 2008)

I wish you could limit searchs to custom channel lists that you create.


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## ffemtreed (Jan 30, 2008)

JBernardK said:


> How does one touch record work on the HR DVRs? On the Tivo you need to confirm--so I guess it is two touch record. Is that a really too much for you that love one touch?


Its more than just the button pushes. Its the time that TIVO takes to think about what you want to record. This is especially true with season passes or series links.

The the DTV HR's you can set a series link in about 3 seconds whereas on the TIVO it can take a couple of minutes to process the new season pass.


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## hancox (Jun 23, 2004)

Syzygy said:


> #4 the intentional pollution of search-result lists with VOD, PPV, and channels you don't get.


#5 a real, working, SCANNING, OTA solution. upgraded tuners would be a plus, but my expectation is low.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Not sure on the OTA scanning. TiVo and DIRECTV deal with the guide data differently, so that's possible I suppose on the TiVo.

As for upgraded tuner? Upgraded from what? I would be surprised if OTA was anything other than the AM21.


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## ffemtreed (Jan 30, 2008)

Doug Brott said:


> Not sure on the OTA scanning. TiVo and DIRECTV deal with the guide data differently, so that's possible I suppose on the TiVo.
> 
> As for upgraded tuner? Upgraded from what? I would be surprised if OTA was anything other than the AM21.


I could be wrong since its been awhile since I had one, but didn't the OTA tuners in the HR20's scan for available channels??


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

ffemtreed said:


> I could be wrong since its been awhile since I had one, but didn't the OTA tuners in the HR20's scan for available channels??


I believe all the HR2x's scan a PSIP database of available channels based on the primary and secondary markets you choose during set-up. I think the HR10 actually scanned each VHF/UHF channel, to see what it could pick up.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

ffemtreed said:


> I could be wrong since its been awhile since I had one, but didn't the OTA tuners in the HR20's scan for available channels??


The HR2x uses Guide Data for available channels and restricts items to a primary and secondary market. Some (although I believe the number is quite small) channels are not included in the Guide Data and thus aren't tunable. Additionally in some cases, folks want to add a third market and don't have a way to do this at all without reconfiguring the OTA setup completely.

In my case, I can get a grand total of one channel via OTA .. It's a channel I don't even watch much and it's also a channel that comes in over the Sat in HD. For me personally (and I suspect a large portion of DIRECTV subscribers), OTA is a non-consideration.


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## hancox (Jun 23, 2004)

Doug Brott said:


> Not sure on the OTA scanning. TiVo and DIRECTV deal with the guide data differently, so that's possible I suppose on the TiVo.
> 
> As for upgraded tuner? Upgraded from what? I would be surprised if OTA was anything other than the AM21.


Yeah, it's a long shot. Only hope is that Tivo didn't go for the add-on component (as it would be their first, I believe)


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

I'm guessing that the new HD Tivobox will be met with the very same "feedback" as any other new HD DVR to date.... some will love, some will dislike.

Once all the capabilities (or lack of any) come to light, there is little doubt it will spurn more than a little discussion on this topic...


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

hancox said:


> Yeah, it's a long shot. Only hope is that Tivo didn't go for the add-on component (as it would be their first, I believe)


I'm 99.9% certain that they hardware they are using doesn't have an OTA tuner in it at all .. They are just reusing one of DIRECTV's existing receivers (probably with a different shell). So if TiVo is to support OTA at all, it would have to be through the add-in component.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

Doug Brott said:


> They are just reusing one of DIRECTV's existing receivers (probably with a different shell)...


And I hope it's not the HR22, as has been rumored in several posts. (It should be the HR24.)


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> And I hope it's not the HR22, as has been rumored in several posts. (It should be the HR24.)


Don't get your hopes up.


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## JBernardK (Aug 16, 2006)

ffemtreed said:


> Its more than just the button pushes. Its the time that TIVO takes to think about what you want to record. This is especially true with season passes or series links.
> 
> The the DTV HR's you can set a series link in about 3 seconds whereas on the TIVO it can take a couple of minutes to process the new season pass.


On the Tivo HD at least, setting up a season pass only takes a second or two and if there is a conflict, Tivo reports it right away and gives you options. As I understand it, the HR does the processing in the background and you may have a conflict but not know it.

The only thing that can take a couple of minutes is rearranging the priority of season passes.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

"JBernardK" said:


> On the Tivo HD at least, setting up a season pass only takes a second or two and if there is a conflict, Tivo reports it right away and gives you options. As I understand it, the HR does the processing in the background and you may have a conflict but not know it.
> 
> The only thing that can take a couple of minutes is rearranging the priority of season passes.


I get conflict notices immediately on my DirecTV DVRs. With messages about both conflicts that need to arise to tie up two tuners. I never saw more than one mentioned on any TiVo I ever had. Did they improve that process recently on TiVo?


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## JBernardK (Aug 16, 2006)

tonyd79 said:


> I get conflict notices immediately on my DirecTV DVRs. With messages about both conflicts that need to arise to tie up two tuners. I never saw more than one mentioned on any TiVo I ever had. Did they improve that process recently on TiVo?


The message says something like "will not record program 2, overlaps with program 1." Then you can accept or not get the season pass. If yiu want do remove program 1 you have to go to the todo list and delete it.


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## MycroftHolmes (Dec 9, 2008)

Syzygy said:


> *All* of it - pushing VOD, PPV, and the channels we don't get - is the doing of the marketing folks, who evidently cannot be denied anything they ask for.


I honestly wouldn't mind it so much if the results had the option to be sorted by name and grouped. The real issue with the search in my opinion is that you have to sort through so many duplicate VOD and PPV items with the same title before you get to real results.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

JBernardK said:


> The message says something like "will not record program 2, overlaps with program 1." Then you can accept or not get the season pass. If yiu want do remove program 1 you have to go to the todo list and delete it.


What about progam 3 and program 2 and program 1. The DirecTV DVRs give you all the choices. I don't think Tivo ever got that part working right.


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## Brennok (Dec 23, 2005)

This is definitely one area Microsoft got it right with Media Center and I wish TiVo would use. 

TiVo still doesn't do this on the Premiere though that screen is part of the old UI so it could be one of the changes once it gets updated.


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## ffemtreed (Jan 30, 2008)

tonyd79 said:


> I get conflict notices immediately on my DirecTV DVRs. With messages about both conflicts that need to arise to tie up two tuners. I never saw more than one mentioned on any TiVo I ever had. Did they improve that process recently on TiVo?


Yep, I have the same experiences.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> *All* of it - pushing VOD, PPV, and the channels we don't get - is the doing of the marketing folks, who evidently cannot be denied anything they ask for.


You do realize that Tivo has even more marketing pushed material on a dvr than Directv even does.. At least all of directvs stuff, at the moment, is related to programing or other Directv related stuff... Tivo will sell ads to any and everyone to push onto your dvr...


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

inkahauts said:


> You do realize that Tivo has even more marketing pushed material on a dvr than Directv even does.. At least all of directvs stuff, at the moment, is related to programing or other Directv related stuff... Tivo will sell ads to any and everyone to push onto your dvr...


Yea, really. One has to wonder if this new DirecTivo will have banner ads while searching, ads while pausing, banner ads on top of the guide...

Oh wait... :lol:


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

bonscott87 said:


> Yea, really. One has to wonder if this new DirecTivo will have banner ads while searching, ads while pausing, banner ads on top of the guide...
> 
> Oh wait... :lol:


With as far behind as this device is in terms of original planned delivery, I can't help but think alot of folks are going to be disappointed with the unit once it sees the light of day some time.

That includes even die hard TiVo fans.

In another 2 1/2 weeks...a number of DBSTalkers will be trying to learn what we can about this unit at CES, assuming its not another flop (no info) in their meeting room like last year. If anything is learned, we'll share.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> With as far behind as this device is in terms of original planned delivery, I can't help but think alot of folks are going to be disappointed with the unit once it sees the light of day some time.
> 
> That includes even die hard TiVo fans.
> 
> In another 2 1/2 weeks...a number of DBSTalkers will be trying to learn what we can about this unit at CES, assuming its not another flop (no info) in their meeting room like last year. If anything is learned, we'll share.


I agree with Your Assessment 100% as I can't fathom why it has taken so long to come out but I have lost interest totally in the New Directivo and I was a TiVoholic but I don't even think it will be compatible with WHDVR Service (MRV) so why would I want it.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

richierich said:


> ... I don't even think it will be compatible with *WFDVR *Service (MRV) ...


Whole Farm Digital Video Recorder Service? :scratchin


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Doug Brott said:


> *Whole Farm Digital Video Recorder Service*? :scratchin


!rolling


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Doug Brott said:


> Whole Farm Digital Video Recorder Service? :scratchin


Sorry, but my fast fingers got in the way to typing correctly WHDVR Service!!! :lol:


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

richierich said:


> Sorry, but my fast fingers got in the way to typing correctly WHDVR Service!!! :lol:


Nice (attempted) recovery. :lol:

Maybe that new TiVo GUI will be right for you after all.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Nice (attempted) recovery. :lol:
> 
> Maybe that new TiVo GUI will be right for you after all.


I thought it was HD Gooey??? :lol:


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

richierich said:


> Sorry, but my fast fingers got in the way to typing correctly WHDVR Service!!! :lol:


Obviously not a touch typist, as the H and the F are typed with different hands.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

tonyd79 said:


> Obviously not a touch typist, as the H and the F are typed with different hands.


Yes, but sometimes the Old Brain does not keep up with my Fast Fingers!!! :lol:


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

richierich said:


> Yes, but sometimes the Old Brain does not keep up with my Fast Fingers!!! :lol:


Sometimes?


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Sometimes?


Well, Most Of The Time but at least I have an excuse, you don't!!!


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> In my case, I can get a grand total of one channel via OTA .. It's a channel I don't even watch much and it's also a channel that comes in over the Sat in HD. For me personally (and I suspect a large portion of DIRECTV subscribers), OTA is a non-consideration.


You must live in the middle of nowhere . I like in Orange County, CA which is kind of in between LA and San Diego. I can pull in about 20 to 30 OTAs with a directional digital antenna in the attic and multiplexed down to the living room.

That being said, I never watch CBS, NBC, FOX, WB, etc. off the OTA. I always watch them off of DirecTVs feed. I think the only thing I actually watch off of OTA is "This Old House" and "Ask This Old House", but those are usually shown on KOCE or KCET which comes on the DTV feed. Only difference is that KOCE is kind of do**hy and pretty much pre-empts *everything* in December while the OTA channel does not.

That being said #2, if its built into the box, I would hook up OTA just cuz its there... if I need to buy the external box, I wouldn't bother.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

richierich said:


> Well, Most Of The Time but at least I have an excuse, you don't!!!


No need here...at least *I *know where the spellcheck button is... 

In the mean time, I was just thinking about the new Tivobox in terms of storage...wonder how big the hard drive will be...another question to keep handy for CES I suppose.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> No need here...at least *I *know where the spellcheck button is...
> 
> In the mean time, I was just thinking about the new Tivobox in terms of storage...wonder how big the hard drive will be...another question to keep handy for CES I suppose.


You need to write down all of those questions as I am keeping a list of what to ask whomever when I see them to try to nail down some answers if that is possible. For instance, will the New Directivo be compatible with WHDVR SERVICE???


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

richierich said:


> You need to write down all of those questions as I am keeping a list of what to ask whomever when I see them to try to nail down some answers if that is possible. For instance, will the New Directivo be compatible with WHDVR SERVICE???


When they see you coming...they'll head the other direction I suspect. 

They don't like playing "20 questions" in those meeting rooms. You might get 2-3 answered. Pick and pick carefully.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> When they see you coming...they'll head the other direction I suspect.
> 
> They don't like playing "20 questions" in those meeting rooms. You might get 2-3 answered. Pick and pick carefully.


Well you ask 3 questions and I will ask 3 questions and then you can chime in again with another question.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

SledgeHammer said:


> You must live in the middle of nowhere .


Nope .. I live in the middle of an area with nearly 2 million inhabitants. Amazing what terrain and foliage do to Antenna signals. 8 miles FARTHER from where I am now and I could pick up everything in the area with a $25 Radio Shack antenna (on the roof). Where I am now I can't "see" over the 1800ft pile of dirt and rocks down the road.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

richierich said:


> You need to write down all of those questions as I am keeping a list of what to ask whomever when I see them to try to nail down some answers if that is possible. For instance, will the New Directivo be compatible with WHDVR SERVICE???


I remember the first directvio.. had only one tuner active when it launched. took a software update latter on to activate it.. I be impressed if it launches with both tuners working at this point without the need for an update latter on, its so far behind schedule....


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

inkahauts said:


> I remember the first directvio.. had only one tuner active when it launched. took a software update latter on to activate it.. I be impressed if it launches with both tuners working at this point without the need for an update latter on, its so far behind schedule....


Yes, and the HDMI Port on alot of them didn't work and there were myriad of problems but I remember watching HDNET and I couldn't believe how Beautiful it was. I was one of the First Persons on Tivocommunity.com to buy the HR10-250 and Activate it with Directv and I was very pleased with the DVR but didn't have very much HD Channels to watch and when I see everyone *****ing about the lack of HD Channels being launched by Directv and then see all of the HD Channels we have I just laugh and remember when we only had 1 or 2 channels such as HDNET and ESPN and then ESPN2.

How quickly we become Spoiled Little Children!!! :lol:


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## ffemtreed (Jan 30, 2008)

richierich said:


> Yes, and the HDMI Port on alot of them didn't work and there were myriad of problems but I remember watching HDNET and I couldn't believe how Beautiful it was. I was one of the First Persons on Tivocommunity.com to buy the HR10-250 and Activate it with Directv and I was very pleased with the DVR but didn't have very much HD Channels to watch and when I see everyone *****ing about the lack of HD Channels being launched by Directv and then see all of the HD Channels we have I just laugh and remember when we only had 1 or 2 channels such as HDNET and ESPN and then ESPN2.
> 
> How quickly we become Spoiled Little Children!!! :lol:


Yeah i remember watching NHL games on HDnet and was converted for life. I still to this day don't see broadcast as good as HDNET was.


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## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

Do you think the DirecTivo's UI and functionality will be simular to Virgin Media's Tivo that just came out overseas?

This was Tivo's latest project, so I have to wonder if this is where they are headed. I know they colored things red for Virgin Media's OEM specification, but they could always color things blue for DirecTV - Or better yet, let the user select (red, blue, green, violet, black, aqua, etc...)

See video's of the latest Tivo in operation on Virgin Media (UK):
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=virgin+media+tivo&aq=f






The thing is, the Virgin Media implementation is using a triple tuner box built by Cisco.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

cypherx said:


> Do you think the DirecTivo's UI and functionality will be simular to Virgin Media's Tivo that just came out overseas?


No. The Tivo CEO already announced a while back that it will be the "Tivo Classic" UI. Thus the same old UI that is 8+ years old from the old SD DirecTivo's and HR10-250 unit.


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## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

bonscott87 said:


> No. The Tivo CEO already announced a while back that it will be the "Tivo Classic" UI. Thus the same old UI that is 8+ years old from the old SD DirecTivo's and HR10-250 unit.


Wow, what a waste of everyone's time. The HR24-200 is better looking than a 10 year old Tivo IMO. Especially with HD-GUI on the roadmap. Maybe they just don't want to take away from their own in house HD-GUI team. They have more control over their interface anyway.

Seems Tivo is pushing their "Premier" HD interface to some cable operators now. RCN and Suddenlink customers can rent them. They have an IP VOD backchannel so they do their VOD content.

The Virgin Media Tivo experience in the YouTube video's looks pretty nice. If Tivo wanted to push unit's, they need to be innovative and go that route. If they don't then what's the point. I know I won't be interested in a decade old user experience. I'm already excited for the new HD-GUI. I've seen Verizon's and Comcast's 2011 HD-GUI tests and they blow everything else out of the water. Verizon's goes national in Q1 2011, Comcast's sometime in Q3 or Q4. When providers start to add more features and more finesse into their interfaces, when does Tivo become relevant?


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## ffemtreed (Jan 30, 2008)

cypherx said:


> Wow, what a waste of everyone's time. The HR24-200 is better looking than a 10 year old Tivo IMO. Especially with HD-GUI on the roadmap. Maybe they just don't want to take away from their own in house HD-GUI team. They have more control over their interface anyway.
> 
> Seems Tivo is pushing their "Premier" HD interface to some cable operators now. RCN and Suddenlink customers can rent them. They have an IP VOD backchannel so they do their VOD content.
> 
> The Virgin Media Tivo experience in the YouTube video's looks pretty nice. If Tivo wanted to push unit's, they need to be innovative and go that route. If they don't then what's the point. I know I won't be interested in a decade old user experience. I'm already excited for the new HD-GUI. I've seen Verizon's and Comcast's 2011 HD-GUI tests and they blow everything else out of the water. Verizon's goes national in Q1 2011, Comcast's sometime in Q3 or Q4. When providers start to add more features and more finesse into their interfaces, when does Tivo become relevant?


Its relevant when it has a more functional guide and actually responds to remote control commands.

Your busting the old tivo for the same thing that is wrong with (in your opinion) the HR series DVRs, The same old 10 year old guide. While there are some rumors that they are going to be rolling out an HD gui soon there is nothing concrete about it and DTV's definition of SOON could be measured in years. Who knows what the future for the new HD tivo could bring.

Really there are very few people who know what the plans are for the new tivo once it comes out. Maybe plans have changed and it will have a new interface?? I don't think its worth complaining about until we at least see a demo unit and know some details.


----------



## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

cypherx said:


> I've seen Verizon's and Comcast's 2011 HD-GUI tests and they blow everything else out of the water. Verizon's goes national in Q1 2011,


Just a minor correction. Verizon's HD GUI is expected to START going national in Q1. It took something like 8 months to roll out the previous version upgrade and nothing says the next one, which is bigger, will be any quicker.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

ffemtreed said:


> and actually responds to remote control commands.


They have been talking about the HR24 which has no issues with remote commands at all and is quite a bit faster then the HR20-23. On the older ones some people have remote issues, others don't (I never did on either my HR20 or HR21 before I dropped DirecTV).



> Really there are very few people who know what the plans are for the new tivo once it comes out. Maybe plans have changed and it will have a new interface?? I don't think its worth complaining about until we at least see a demo unit and know some details.


When the CEO himself tells us what it's going to look like (Classic GUI) then I think we need to listen. This new DirecTivo HD will be not much more then an HR10-250 with MPEG4 capability built on HR22 hardware. That much we do know.


----------



## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> When the CEO himself tells us what it's going to look like (Classic GUI) then I think we need to listen. This new DirecTivo HD will be not much more then an HR10-250 with MPEG4 capability built on HR22 hardware. That much we do know.


Don't bother. Let hope spring eternal...for now.


----------



## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

bonscott87 said:


> When the CEO himself tells us what it's going to look like (Classic GUI) then I think we need to listen. This new DirecTivo HD will be not much more then an HR10-250 with MPEG4 capability built on HR22 hardware. That much we do know.


Then I have absolutely no interest in this product. The HR24-200 is good enough for me.


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## tkrandall (Oct 3, 2003)

bonscott87 said:


> This new DirecTivo HD will be not much more then an HR10-250 with MPEG4 capability built on HR22 hardware. That much we do know.


Dang - then one has to wonder why has it taken them so long to develop?


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

tkrandall said:


> Dang - then one has to wonder why has it taken them so long to develop?


Not really - TiVo means "slow to deliver & failure to meet expectations" in Portuguese.


----------



## smiddy (Apr 5, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Not really - TiVo means "slow to deliver & failure to meet expectations" in Portuguese.


I had no idea you knew another language. 

Thanks for educating us...:lol:


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

smiddy said:


> I had no idea you knew another language.
> 
> Thanks for educating us...:lol:


Welcome...I actually can speak 4 languages pretty well....luckily...English is the best.


----------



## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Welcome...I actually can speak 4 languages pretty well....luckily...English is the best.


Pig Latin doesn't count


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

ATARI said:


> Pig Latin doesn't count


Shucks.

OurYa UtsNa 

IvoTa UxSa :lol:


----------



## Lee L (Aug 15, 2002)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Not really - TiVo means "slow to deliver & failure to meet expectations" in Portuguese.


You forgot about the second, lesser known definition of massive hype machine that blows everything out of proportion just to get hammered in the tech blogs about the actual announcement.


----------



## Brennok (Dec 23, 2005)

tkrandall said:


> Dang - then one has to wonder why has it taken them so long to develop?


My guess is that is this related to the old UI. IIRC TiVo stated in an interview about the Premiere that the reason things like the free space indicator weren't added before now was that it was extremely challenging to update and change aspects of the original UI.

If TiVo is choosing or required to implement some of the DirecTV features that weren't on the previous DirecTiVo, this might be presenting some issues especially if it involves modifying the layout of the UI.

Of course beyond that, TiVo isn't known for being quick.


----------



## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Not really - TiVo means "slow to deliver & failure to meet expectations" in Portuguese.


bait?


----------



## TBlazer07 (Feb 5, 2009)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Shucks.
> 
> OurYa UtsNa
> 
> IvoTa UxSa :lol:


Evidently you failed in Pig Latin School:

OurYay UtsNay

IvoTay UxSay

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_Latin

:lol:


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

tkrandall said:


> Dang - then one has to wonder why has it taken them so long to develop?


That's certainly the million dollar question .. I'm really hoping it's not a no-show @ CES. That won't go over well :nono2:


----------



## Citivas (Oct 25, 2006)

Not to bait some fanboy response on either side, but seriously does anyone beyond a tiny loyal community still care about this mythical new Tivo box? I was a huge fan of the 10-250 in its day and still have one sitting in the original box in my basement. I held out until the bitter end when they shut down the MPEG-2 locals ecven though I also had had 2 DirecTV HD DVR's for a while, one since almost launch, because I liked the Tivo UI and reliability more. But since then DirecTV has radically improved its boxes and added features even the current stand-alone TiVo's don't have. And it has been rock solid stable, the exact opposite of its performance in the first year. About the only things I see on the current TiVo I would like are minor, like the undelete, the ability to add an external HD additively rather than as a replacement and the intergated Netflix option. But I already have 5-6 Netflix-capable devices and with whole-room viewing across 3 DVR's I have plenty of capacity. Just not seeing the point anymore.


----------



## TBlazer07 (Feb 5, 2009)

bonscott87 said:


> When the CEO himself tells us what it's going to look like (Classic GUI) then I think we need to listen. This new DirecTivo HD will be not much more then an HR10-250 with MPEG4 capability built on HR22 hardware. That much we do know.


Not that it matters to me (I don't give a crap about th GUI only that it works) the HR2x GUI has been the same since the first day it came out as well. If it was first released in 1999 like TiVo then it too would still have the same GUI since 1999, same as TiVo. Whether one prefers one over the other is another issue but neither have been updated since day 1 save for adding a couple features here and there.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Citivas said:


> Not to bait some fanboy response on either side, but seriously does anyone beyond a tiny loyal community still care about this mythical new Tivo box?


There are still some diehards and I'm confident there will be some initial excitement .. but honestly, I don't expect this to be a replacement for folks that already have an HR2x (yes, there will be some exceptions .. I'm generalizing here).

Where it might work is as an upsell for folks that currently have an SD TiVo (include the HR10-250 at this point). These folks stuck with the SD TiVo because either they were still on SD or they really, really didn't want to change from the TiVo interface. I do think there will be a fair number of sales in this arena as those folks simply haven't had what they would consider a viable option to this point.

Still, you've gotta wonder how many of those customers left the alter at this point. Folks can only wait so long, and everyone that I know that has actually made the switch isn't sitting around pining for a TiVo.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

TBlazer07 said:


> Evidently you failed in Pig Latin School:
> 
> OurYay UtsNay
> 
> ...


Not really...its correct in this part of the country...ever hear of a Southern drawl?


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Doug Brott said:


> That's certainly the million dollar question .. I'm really hoping it's not a no-show @ CES. That won't go over well :nono2:


Quite true.

Walking into the meeting rooms last year, only to be greeted by some college kids with stuffed TiVo critters and logo'ed trinkets....but no one stitch of information other than "we still expect it in 2010" was a major flop.

Of course we now know even that rehearsed response was bogus.

We'll give it one more try in 2 weeks and see what happens. :bang :shrug:


----------



## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

TBlazer07 said:


> Evidently you failed in Pig Latin School:
> 
> OurYay UtsNay
> 
> ...


Sounded more like Jar Jar Binks than Pig Latin to me.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

tonyd79 said:


> Sounded more like Jar Jar Binks than Pig Latin to me.


Now just how would you know that language....??? :lol:


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

tonyd79 said:


> Sounded more like Jar Jar Binks than Pig Latin to me.


Meesa no thinko TiVo gonna come next year.


----------



## dirtyblueshirt (Dec 7, 2008)

ATARI said:


> Meesa no thinko TiVo gonna come next year.


I'm beginning to think the next DirecTiVo is D*'s own "Duke Nukem Forever"; doomed to an endless cycle of "it's coming next year".


----------



## dirtyblueshirt (Dec 7, 2008)

TBlazer07 said:


> Evidently you failed in Pig Latin School:
> 
> OurYay UtsNay
> 
> ...


Both wrong... Incorrect use of "your". Should read:

Ou'reyay Utsnay

iVoTay Uxsay.

(to which I totally disagree).


----------



## redhot (Oct 23, 2009)

Doug Brott said:


> There are still some diehards and I'm confident there will be some initial excitement .. but honestly, I don't expect this to be a replacement for folks that already have an HR2x (yes, there will be some exceptions .. I'm generalizing here).
> 
> Where it might work is as an upsell for folks that currently have an SD TiVo (include the HR10-250 at this point). These folks stuck with the SD TiVo because either they were still on SD or they really, really didn't want to change from the TiVo interface. I do think there will be a fair number of sales in this arena as those folks simply haven't had what they would consider a viable option to this point.
> 
> Still, you've gotta wonder how many of those customers left the alter at this point. Folks can only wait so long, and everyone that I know that has actually made the switch isn't sitting around pining for a TiVo.


I have 2 Directv Tivo R10, one of them is about 80% pixelated, it isn't watchable most of the time. I am painfully waiting for CES in January to see if there is any light at the Directv Tivo tunnel. If there is not, I will be getting 2 Hr24 soon after. I am out of contract, so We'll see what kind of deal I can get.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

dirtyblueshirt said:


> Both wrong... Incorrect use of "your". Should read:
> 
> Ou'reyay Utsnay
> 
> ...


Gee thanks....good to have a Pig Latin expert assisting us.


----------



## TBlazer07 (Feb 5, 2009)

dirtyblueshirt said:


> Both wrong... Incorrect use of "your". Should read:
> 
> Ou'reyay Utsnay
> 
> ...





hdtvfan0001 said:


> Gee thanks....good to have a Pig Latin expert assisting us.


OyVeySay! :lol:


----------



## Win Joy Jr (Apr 23, 2002)

Waiting for the new DirecTiVo.

Me!

I actually returned to DirecTV the week they made the announcement (had dumped DirecTV for FIOS in early 2007, but then moved to the country where FIOS will never arrive). When I dropped DTV I had them note in my account that it was because the lack of the TiVo product. When I called to return, the note was in my account, and I pointed out that I was returning due to the announcement. I am a DirecTV customer because of TiVo. 

Unfortunately, both of my SD DirecTiVo's have recently given up the ghost. I do have a HR-23, and it's response is lackluster, with a very noticeable lag from remote input to response.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

redhot said:


> [/COLOR]
> 
> I have 2 Directv Tivo R10, one of them is about 80% pixelated, it isn't watchable most of the time. I am painfully waiting for CES in January to see if there is any light at the Directv Tivo tunnel. If there is not, I will be getting 2 Hr24 soon after. I am out of contract, so We'll see what kind of deal I can get.


I can assure you of one thing .. You will still be waiting post CES. I'm also pretty sure that Q1/2011 is off the table now (sadly) .. I'm hopeful for Q2.


----------



## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

Win Joy Jr said:


> Waiting for the new DirecTiVo... Me!
> 
> I actually returned to DirecTV the week they made the announcement... I am a DirecTV customer because of TiVo.
> 
> Unfortunately, both of my SD DirecTiVo's have recently given up the ghost. I do have a HR-23, and it's response is lackluster, with a very noticeable lag from remote input to response.


Also waiting for the new DirecTiVo: Me - but with an exception.

My HR10-250 recently threatened to commit hara-kiri, so I switched completely over to HR24 boxes (wouldn't accept anything slower; you don't have to either), and I'm very happy with MRV.

If the new DirecTiVo doesn't have MRV, I'll never switch back to TiVo - in spite of my mostly still valid complaints about the hundreds of deficiencies in the HR2x series.


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## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

What do you think will come first? DirecTV's in house HD-GUI or DirecTivo (supposedly with last decades SD UI)?

If DirecTV's in house GUI undergoes a massive transformation along with enhancements like IP Control, Copilot and Nomad; how badly will that cannibalize Tivo's efforts? Unless TiVo really innovates and evolves into a modern, richer system with some tie ins with MRV and Internet, I just don't see the value. What is it going to take for TiVo to evolve their product? Money from lawsuits?


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

cypherx said:


> What do you think will come first? DirecTV's in house HD-GUI or DirecTivo (supposedly with last decades SD UI)?
> 
> If DirecTV's in house GUI undergoes a massive transformation along with enhancements like IP Control, Copilot and Nomad; how badly will that cannibalize Tivo's efforts? Unless TiVo really innovates and evolves into a modern, richer system with some tie ins with MRV and Internet, I just don't see the value. What is it going to take for TiVo to evolve their product? Money from lawsuits?


As much as a few people would love to see it, I don't think the DirecTivo will ever see the light of day. Not basing that on any inside info or anything, just I figure it doesn't really make sense from a business standpoint. I mean, nobody is NOT signing up for DISH or DirecTV just 'cuz they don't have a tivo. Why bother training all the customer service people on a new box that < 1% of the 12 million subs are going to have?

That being said, supposedly people have been sent invites for the beta and supposedly they are going to show it at CES...

Still, that doesn't mean it will be out anytime soon .


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> If the new DirecTiVo doesn't have MRV, I'll never switch back to TiVo - in spite of my mostly still valid complaints about the hundreds of deficiencies in the HR2x series.


This aligns with my belief that MRV is the most recent killer feature in the DVR world. So let me be the first to say .. Welcome to DIRECTV land


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

SledgeHammer said:


> As much as a few people would love to see it, I don't think the DirecTivo will ever see the light of day.


While this is still a possibility at this point .. I don't really believe it is true.


----------



## JBernardK (Aug 16, 2006)

SledgeHammer said:


> I mean, nobody is NOT signing up for DISH or DirecTV just 'cuz they don't have a tivo.


I know many people who left D* because they wanted a HD TiVo and hated the HR boxes. Perhaps they won't come back, but some might.


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## redhot (Oct 23, 2009)

Doug Brott said:


> While this is still a possibility at this point .. I'm really believe it is true.


Why can't Directv just tell us it's not going to happenI hate the waiting


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

redhot said:


> Why can't Directv just tell us it's not going to happenI hate the waiting


Sorry .. typo on my part .. I fully expect the DIRECTV TiVo to become a real product. Hopefully that is more clear.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

redhot said:


> Why can't Directv just tell us it's not going to happenI hate the waiting


As Doug and others have pointed out....if there will be something happening in 2011, odds are we'll learn about it in 2 weeks from now at CES - that tends to be the place for such announcements.

If there's no new information provided there.... :shrug:


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

JBernardK said:


> I know many people who left D* because they wanted a HD TiVo and hated the HR boxes. Perhaps they won't come back, but some might.


Where did they go? To cable? DISH doesn't have a HD-Tivo either. I never tried to get a cablecard, but last I heard (and this could be outdated info) cable companies don't like to give them out and they are unreliable.

I had a HR10-250 and loved it. I too hated the HR20 when it came out, but its now a better box then the HR10-250 was. All of the annoyances of it are probably going to get propogated over to the new HD DTivo anyways (guide ads, spam email, etc)... so its really all the same.


----------



## JBernardK (Aug 16, 2006)

SledgeHammer said:


> Where did they go? To cable? DISH doesn't have a HD-Tivo either. I never tried to get a cablecard, but last I heard (and this could be outdated info) cable companies don't like to give them out and they are unreliable.
> 
> I had a HR10-250 and loved it. I too hated the HR20 when it came out, but its now a better box then the HR10-250 was. All of the annoyances of it are probably going to get propogated over to the new HD DTivo anyways (guide ads, spam email, etc)... so its really all the same.


The people I know went to Comcast and FIOS with TiVo HD. Sometimes initial cable card install was problematic, but they are not "unreliable" once they are set up.


----------



## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

SledgeHammer said:


> I had a HR10-250 and loved it. I too hated the HR20 when it came out, but its now a better box then the HR10-250 was. All of the annoyances of it are probably going to get propogated over to the new HD DTivo anyways (guide ads, spam email, etc)... so its really all the same.


The biggest annoyance to me is the HR2x's unreliable search, which irritatingly and unavoidably pollutes the results list with PPV, VOD, and (grayed out) channels you don't get. Since TiVo's Swivel Search may handle VOD, and their "old fashioned" interface lets you identify which channels you want the regular search to look at, I can easily imagine that annoyance going away.


----------



## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

SledgeHammer said:


> Where did they go? To cable? DISH doesn't have a HD-Tivo either. I never tried to get a cablecard, but last I heard (and this could be outdated info) cable companies don't like to give them out and they are unreliable.
> 
> I had a HR10-250 and loved it. I too hated the HR20 when it came out, but its now a better box then the HR10-250 was. All of the annoyances of it are probably going to get propogated over to the new HD DTivo anyways (guide ads, spam email, etc)... so its really all the same.


Tivo has always had more pushed non relevant advertising than any other dvrs.. even directv doesn't do that with theirs now...


----------



## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

RCN cable just turned on the HD UI to a group of customers who opted in to be beta testers. Suddenlink is also rolling out the same Tivo Premier as RCN now. http://hd.engadget.com/2010/12/16/suddenlink-starts-rolling-out-tivo-with-cable-vod-and-some-stre/

One important note:
"Netflix is currently not on the list of possibles and Suddenlink says it's not their fault, citing Netflix's agreements with the studios as a reason why its Watch Instantly service cannot coexist on hardware distributed by cable companies.Otherwise the usual suite of TiVo features is in full effect and they're available for the same price as Suddenlink's old boxes making this a pretty good looking upgrade if you can't bear to lose VOD access."

So Tivo is working with providers now (RCN, Suddenlink, Virgin Media). So I think it will come to DirecTV, because clearly Tivo wants to get their product out to other providers.

Time will tell what features it will have. They do push a lot of "suggestions" through the Discovery bar - wait, that's this generation's Tivo. I think you guys said DirecTV was getting last generation's Tivo. My bad. :-/


----------



## TigerDriver (Jul 27, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> I can assure you of one thing .. You will still be waiting post CES. I'm also pretty sure that Q1/2011 is off the table now (sadly) .. I'm hopeful for Q2.


Folks,

Here's an interesting data point. I have a 30-year-plus professional contact at Dolby Labs engineering. We chatted yesterday, and he mentioned that D* "recently" submitted a "Tivo-ish" (his words) box for Dolby certification.

Dolby won't accept a device for testing unless it has attained FCC Part 15 certification. Now for a company as large as D*, an FCC-approved Part-15 lab is neither difficult to find nor particularly expensive.

HOWEVER, Dolby Labs charges a pretty penny for certification testing, and, once an item fails cert testing, Dolby charges MUCH (geometrically) more for successive resubmissions. IOW, retesting gets VERY expensive VERY fast. Dolby also has an unspoken policy of sending resubmissions to the back of the line--especially submissions after two failures. For these reasons, submitting hardware for a Dolby cert is usually a late milestone in product development. Companies often show a non-shipping product at CES as a way to hijack the competition. But there's always a risk that showing it will also have the affect of curbing their own sales as potential customers postpone their buying decisions until they can have the latest-and-greatest.

Just sayin'


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

TigerDriver said:


> I have a 30-year-plus professional contact at Dolby Labs engineering. We chatted yesterday, and he mentioned that D* "recently" submitted a "Tivo-ish" (his words) box for Dolby certification.


Could you please ask your friend (if he knows) whether it was a THR22 box or a THR24 box?


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> Could you please ask your friend (if he knows) whether it was a THR22 box or a THR24 box?


I'll spare you the trouble .. It's based on the HR22, not the HR24. This is one thing that hasn't changed over the last 2 years.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

TigerDriver said:


> Just sayin'


OK .. Q1 would be nice .. Just don't get disappointed when it doesn't happen ....

Just sayin'


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## JoeTheDragon (Jul 21, 2008)

Doug Brott said:


> I'll spare you the trouble .. It's based on the HR22, not the HR24. This is one thing that hasn't changed over the last 2 years.


Nice way to miss the boat with D* trying to go H24 / HR24 only + A 5-6 tuner sever box where will the HD tivo fit?

D* will need a HD GUI on all H / HR boxes. SKY UK has it and the boxes there are have the same base.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

JoeTheDragon said:


> Nice way to miss the boat with D* trying to go H24 / HR24 only + A 5-6 tuner sever box *where will the HD tivo fit*?
> 
> D* will need a HD GUI on all H / HR boxes. SKY UK has it and the boxes there are have the same base.


Where will it fit you ask?

With TiVo taking so long to get their work done on the project...

You might not like the answer.


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## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

Where will it fit? 
In my house? NOWHERE!

I won't reward such behavior by paying for a 10 year old interface on last generation hardware. They missed the boat.

Why do I still follow this thread?
Curiosity I guess. Maybe it will pick up with more concrete stuff during and after CES.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

cypherx said:


> Where will it fit?
> In my house? NOWHERE!
> 
> I won't reward such behavior by paying for a 10 year old interface on last generation hardware. They missed the boat.
> ...


We'll share what we learn at CES the end of next week....but rest assured...if you've read the whole thread...there's enough information already here to validate your first statement.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

cypherx said:


> I won't reward [TiVo's] behavior by paying for a 10 year old interface on last generation hardware. They missed the boat...


_10 year old interface?_ Fine by me.

_Last generation hardware?_ Not so much.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

JoeTheDragon said:


> Nice way to miss the boat with D* trying to go H24 / HR24 only + A 5-6 tuner sever box where will the HD tivo fit?


It won't. But Tivo of course doesn't see it that way. I mean, why wouldn't everyone want a Tivo? Then again they've been saying that for many years now while they keep losing subscribers so it's no surprise.



> D* will need a HD GUI on all H / HR boxes. SKY UK has it and the boxes there are have the same base.


Huh? Are you thinking about NDS code? DirecTV hasn't used NDS code since the R16 something like 5 years ago. The HR2x's are all home grown DirecTV code.


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## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

bonscott87 said:


> Huh? Are you thinking about NDS code? DirecTV hasn't used NDS code since the R16 something like 5 years ago. The HR2x's are all home grown DirecTV code.


They have to be paying royalties or licensing for some of NDS technology right? On their website they advertise DirecTV as one of their customers, and they show a picture of the DirecTV guide.

Also the fonts used in the DirecTV guide are the same fonts used by NDS. So maybe the code is maintained in house now, but I'm sure they are licensing NDS's intellectual property for bits and pieces of the system.

The investor slide indicated that an HD-GUI was in the works. That to me is of more value, with Multi-room, on latest generation receivers, than an old tired Tivo.


----------



## tkrandall (Oct 3, 2003)

Speaking of HD GUI, I notice that my HR20-700's GUI (menu/setup font, etc) has larger text and looks more "SD" in context than does the GUI on my HR24-200s. Is that a systems difference or a software difference?


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

cypherx said:


> They have to be paying royalties or licensing for some of NDS technology right? On their website they advertise DirecTV as one of their customers, and they show a picture of the DirecTV guide.
> 
> Also the fonts used in the DirecTV guide are the same fonts used by NDS. So maybe the code is maintained in house now, but I'm sure they are licensing NDS's intellectual property for bits and pieces of the system.


NDS provides the access cards for DirecTV and thus are big customers but nothing else then that outside of perhaps some legacy support for the R15/16. There is no NDS code in the H/HR series.


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## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

Interesting.

Are they still maintaining the code for the old recievers? Do they continue to produce updates for them?

Because on the last page of NDS's EPG PDF it lists DirecTV as an NDS UI Customer. And on page 6 it doesn't show DirecTV's UI, but the Sky UI looks VERY similar in terms of colors and fonts, and icons such as the red X.
http://www.nds.com/pdfs/EPG.pdf

If DirecTV used NDS as a starting point and then purchased the I.P. and took it over, maybe NDS is just blowing smoke to make them look better.

At least they have the know how to produce an HD GUI for Cox cable, Sky and some other providers.

Also check this:
http://www.ndsebrochures.com/epgs/

A few pages in it says "Save time and costs with EPG Designer. A template based tool for customizing EPGs in-house, EPG Designer saves your pay-TV platform valuable time and significant costs. Maybe DirecTV is using EPG Designer from NDS and they are able to "build the gui" off that framework or toolkit/sdk.


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## TigerDriver (Jul 27, 2007)

Syzygy said:


> Could you please ask your friend (if he knows) whether it was a THR22 box or a THR24 box?


He wouldn't know that information.

Neither the FCC nor Dolby requires marketing info (e.g., model number). _Preliminary_ certification is given on a specific design *and* an implementation (which may be an engineering prototype). _Final _certification is issued, at earliest, on "first article," the first product to come out of real-world manufacturing. During certification, anonymizing ID's are assigned so that manufacturers can maintain secrecy during testing and certification.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

cypherx said:


> Interesting.
> 
> Are they still maintaining the code for the old recievers? Do they continue to produce updates for them?
> 
> ...


All I can tell you is that this is very well known info around here and has been for many years. NDS has *nothing* to do with the HR2x receivers outside the access card.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

cypherx said:


> Because on the last page of NDS's EPG PDF it lists DirecTV as an NDS UI Customer.


Are you at all familiar with the R15 and R16 SD DVRs? Those are the models that have some commonality with the NDS DVRs. Rest assured that they're not going to get an HD guide.


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## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

harsh said:


> Are you at all familiar with the R15 and R16 SD DVRs? Those are the models that have some commonality with the NDS DVRs. Rest assured that they're not going to get an HD guide.


Not really, it's been a long time since I've seen the older equipment. Doesn't the GUI look pretty much identical to what's on the HR's of today (maybe minus cover art)?

Is there any history of the software development with screen shots? I'm curious as to how the software evolved over the years in terms of looks, functionality, feature adds, performance, etc.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

cypherx said:


> Not really, it's been a long time since I've seen the older equipment. Doesn't the GUI look pretty much identical to what's on the HR's of today (maybe minus cover art)?
> 
> Is there any history of the software development with screen shots? I'm curious as to how the software evolved over the years in terms of looks, functionality, feature adds, performance, etc.


And yes, they made the GUI look the same across all receivers on purpose. I think about a year into the HR20 release they ported the GUI changes back to the R15/16. And they have done more porting back to them when something major has changed that they want to keep consistent.

Plenty of it on the forum archives. If you are really curious for some reason then look in the archives for the R15/16 software releases back a few years ago. You may find a note about GUI changes and such.

Not quite sure why you care or it matters, but suffice to say that NDS is only around beyond access cards for legacy support of the R15/16 (if even that anymore). Have fun!


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