# Advice Regarding Lightning



## nickff (Dec 8, 2007)

This past Saturday lightning either hit my house, hit my dish, or hit near my house because my DirecTV service was knocked out, my A/V receiver popped and smelled and quit working, and the HDMI input I was using on my display quit accepting a signal. 

It seems that the lightning travelled through the coax from the dish to the power inserter, to the DVR in the basement, to the A/V receiver via the HDMI cable, to the display via HDMI.

None of these connections are run through a surge protector.

My question is this: can anyone recommend an in-line coax surge protector for this situation. My search turned up a few dead links and a few devices but I am not sure which ones work with DirecTV.

Thanks in advance.


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## Cyber36 (Mar 20, 2008)

Google is your best friend............


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## Go Beavs (Nov 18, 2008)

Boy, I don't think any consumer surge protector will stop lightning. :eek2:

EDIT:
Looks like I'm mistaken: http://www.amazon.com/TII-Broadband-Cable-Lightning-Protector/dp/B0016AIYU6

And another: http://www.cell-phone-accessories.com/pol-859902-wil.html


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Go Beavs said:


> Boy, I don't think any surge protector will stop all lightning strike damage. :eek2:


I would agree with this modification.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> I would agree with this modification.


Lightning does pretty much what it wants to do. Almost unimaginable power.

Rich


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## dcowboy7 (May 23, 2008)

Dont fly a kite.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

rich584 said:


> Lightning does pretty much what it wants to do. Almost unimaginable power.
> 
> Rich


+1......Last year my neighbor's barn was struck by lightening. Neighborhood was without power for nearly 20 hours. Power company was repairing damage to their equipment for days.


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## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

nickff said:


> This past Saturday lightning either hit my house, hit my dish, or hit near my house because my DirecTV service was knocked out, my A/V receiver popped and smelled and quit working, and the HDMI input I was using on my display quit accepting a signal.
> 
> It seems that the lightning travelled through the coax from the dish to the power inserter, to the DVR in the basement, to the A/V receiver via the HDMI cable, to the display via HDMI.
> 
> ...


Your best defense from surges on the coax is to make sure the dish is grounded well. A properly grounded dish can bleed off the energy from a nearby strike, but a direct hit is going to cause damage regardless. The best defense there is a good home owners plan!
Most of the coax surge protectors are only rated for frequenices below 1 GHz so these will not work in a DBS system as the frequencies are much higher than that.


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## boba (May 23, 2003)

*an insurance policy is your best protection.*


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

MysteryMan said:


> +1......Last year my neighbor's barn was struck by lightening. Neighborhood was without power for nearly 20 hours. Power company was repairing damage to their equipment for days.


There is a way to "control" lightning strikes, but it's very expensive and complicated. In a chemical plant environment or any environment where a lightning strike on equipment might be catastrophic (buildings blowing up, for example) the strikes are pretty well controlled. We'd occasionally lose a big transformer, but that was about the worst thing that I can remember. Then it was just a matter of switching to a different transformer and replacing the damaged one. No small task, but better than an explosion of volatile chemicals.

Rich


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## Joe C (Mar 3, 2005)

rich584 said:


> There is a way to "control" lightning strikes, but it's very expensive and complicated. In a chemical plant environment or any environment where a lightning strike on equipment might be catastrophic (buildings blowing up, for example) the strikes are pretty well controlled. Rich


We surround our buildings that process explosives with tall metal poles to "catch" the lightning.


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## bigglebowski (Jul 27, 2010)

nickff said:


> It seems that the lightning travelled through the coax from the dish to the power inserter, to the DVR in the basement, to the A/V receiver via the HDMI cable, to the display via HDMI.


Just look what happened here, the strike traveled through that much equipment and even across circuits/boards inside the devices. Even though surge protectors and gas injected ground blocks are designed to try to prevent this kind of damage they just dont act fast enough to stop it in worse case scenarios like this. Not saying dont use them, in fact do use them more for issues that would not be lightning, at least when connecting an expensive TV or A/V equipment.

Sadly like others have said spending the money on the insurance policy might be best option. Sounds like the damage you have should well exceed even a high deductible.

Did the LNB and Power inserter survive?


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## NR4P (Jan 16, 2007)

If you have a homeowners policy, it may cover you for lightning. Some do, some don't.

Even with a $500 deductible, a TV with a bad input, DVR, AV Receiver etc will cost more than $500 to fix or replace.


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## nickff (Dec 8, 2007)

bigglebowski said:


> Did the LNB and Power inserter survive?


No, the LNB and PI had to be replaced. DirecTV took care of that no charge.



boba said:


> *an insurance policy is your best protection.*


Insurance is all well and good, but in my case I have would have to pay for everything up front and provide irrefutable proof that lightning caused the damage before insurance would pay for anything.

Luckily, my A/V receiver was covered under a 4-year warranty and I will just use a different HDMI input on my display. This time around, I am spending no where near my deductible to fix the damaged items.

I was just hoping there would be a way to prevent a surge reaching my A/V receiver and display via the satellite dish. I live a newly developed neighborhood with no mature trees and my dish tends to stand out. I am not looking forward to having to deal with this again.


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## bigglebowski (Jul 27, 2010)

nickff said:


> Insurance is all well and good, but in my case I have would have to pay for everything up front and provide irrefutable proof that lightning caused the damage before insurance would pay for anything.


Obviously you have irrefutable proof, look at the sum of all the pieces. Now the part about some of the equipment being under warranty isnt a fair example. If everything had to be diagnossed/repaired/replaced you would have to be well over a $500 deductible. You would also not just let the TV go unfixed. The replacement mainboard in your TV with labor could be close to $500 depending on TV make/model. It is possible the TV may still fail on you or the other HDMI ports to fail.

As for protection, lighting went from the dish all the way to to the mainboard on your TV you weren't going to prevent that kind of hit. This is a pretty extreme case, we have done a lot of affidavits for lightning repairs and it is rare to see lightning go through a chain of equipment like that. Would be interesting to see the scorches on the circuit boards of the receivers. Then again sometimes you dont see anything, but you mentioned a burn smell.


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

Actually, the 4-year warranty on your AV receiver shouldnt be covering lightning damage either, unless you didnt tell them it was damaged by lightning, which of course is fraudulent if you didnt.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Surge Protectors work if it is not a Direct Hit by Lightning or extremely close by lightning strike.

I had a lightning strike nearby and damaged equipment in several homes around me several years ago and nothing was damaged in my house because everything is on APC Battery Backup/Surge Protection/Automatic Voltage Regulation/Line Conditioning Units such as my 3 APC S15s and 1 J15 UPS Devices along with 2 APC ES750s.

Nothing can protect you from a direct hit but normally the strikes can be hundreds of yards away and still travel into houses and damage electronics in which case Surge Protection can help and they come with Insurance Coverage in case they fail. It is very rare to have a direct hit but it does happen but normally it hits the ground and scatters a long way.

I have Never had a problem and my house had several hiccups during a storm a couple of weeks ago and my DVRs never even Rebooted which is another reason why I like having the APC UPSs on all of my Home Entertainment Systems.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Well, you can prevent such damages only if you'll build four 30' tall metal towers in each corner of your lot. Don't forget to erect 10' long steel rod 1" diameter to top of each tower and make good grounding all of them.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Joe C said:


> We surround our buildings that process explosives with tall metal poles to "catch" the lightning.


At the arsenal? Was wondering if that place was still open.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

P Smith said:


> Well, you can prevent such damages only if you'll build four 30' tall metal towers in each corner of your lot. Don't forget to erect 10' long steel rod 1" diameter to top of each tower and make good grounding all of them.


And you'd have to ground the towers and bond them together. Like I said, it's expensive.

I don't think the TS got hit with a direct lightning strike, that produces equipment reduced to puddles. My father had a TV antenna get hit with a direct strike and all that was left of the TV was a puddle of melted metal parts.

Rich


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

rich584 said:


> And you'd have to ground the towers and bond them together. Like I said, it's expensive.
> 
> I don't think the TS got hit with a direct lightning strike, that produces equipment reduced to puddles. My father had a TV antenna get hit with a direct strike and all that was left of the TV was a puddle of melted metal parts.
> 
> Rich


Picture of the "a puddle of melted metal parts" would be hilarious !


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## Joe C (Mar 3, 2005)

rich584 said:


> At the arsenal? Was wondering if that place was still open.
> 
> Rich


About 3,000 people here and more coming in from the Navy. A lot of new construction going on.


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## westom (Aug 9, 2009)

nickff said:


> I was just hoping there would be a way to prevent a surge reaching my A/V receiver and display via the satellite dish.


 Notice how every 911 emergency response center has massive insurance so that they also are compensated when 911 calls go unanswered. Or learn how direct lightning strikes without damage to electronics is routine.

How will a 2 cm part inside any protector stop what even three miles of sky could not? You are asking for that - impossible. Others educated by advertising will also recommend miracle devices. Devices rates for hundreds of joules that will magically absorb hundreds of thousands of joules.

Protection is always about where energy dissipates. Therefore proper earthing - the always critical single point earth ground - is required. Otherwise zero protection even from power strips or UPS that cost $thousands.

Your telco connects their computers to wires (overhead and underground) all over town. Therefore suffers 100 surges with each storm. And no damage. Every wire inside every incoming cable connects as short as possible to earth before entering. That simple. Every wire makes that (ie 'less than 10 foot') connection directly or via a 'whole house' protector. A least expensive solution is also the best because it is protection - not a profit center.

You must do same. Some wires connect directly to earth before entering (cable TV, satellite dish). Other wires connect via a protector (AC electric, phone). If any one wire inside any cable does not connect that short to single point ground, then protection is compromised.

A professional demonstrates what must be done in an application note. Two structures. Each must have its own single point earthing. Any wire (even undersground) that enters either structure must be earthed. Otherwise a strike to one structure is like connecting a lighting rod to electronics in the other structure:
http://www.erico.com/public/library/fep/technotes/tncr002.pdf

No exception to this requirement. Why do broadcasting stations all over the world suffer direct lightning strikes without damage? They carefully install or upgrade their earthing. No protector does protection. Earthing is where hundreds of thousands of joules dissipate.

Protectors are connecting devices. Every wire inside every cable connects short (low impedance) to earth either directly (hardwire) or via a 'whole house' protector. If that protector connects to earth with sharp wire bends, splices, or inside metallic conduit, then protection is compromised. No protector does any protection. Either a protector connects low impedance to what does protection. Or the protector is ineffective.

Nothing inline stops or absorbs surges. Learn what a surge does. Anything that would stop current means voltage increases as necessary to blow through that in-line solution. Protection means large currents with near zero voltage. Happens only when currents connect to and are absorbed harmlessly by earth. That 100 year old (well proven) solution also costs tens or 100 times less money.

Effective solution says where hundreds of thousands of joules dissipate. Scams promoted by adverting will always avoid that requirement. Will not even claim protection in manufacturer specs sheets. Learn why superior solutions come from more responsible companies including General Electric, Polyphaser, Siemens, Intermatic, Cutler-Hammer, ABB, Keison, Leviton, and others. In every case, a protector always has that short (ie 'less than 10 foot') connection to single point earth ground. Always.


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

link to pdf is not valid


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

David MacLeod said:


> link to pdf is not valid


valid if remove last backslash


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

P Smith said:


> valid if remove last backslash


Like this: http://www.erico.com/public/library/fep/technotes/tncr002.pdf


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

P Smith said:


> Picture of the "a puddle of melted metal parts" would be hilarious !


Was a long time ago. The sound of the strike was like a bull whip.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Joe C said:


> About 3,000 people here and more coming in from the Navy. A lot of new construction going on.


Must be a scary place to work.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> Like this: http://www.erico.com/public/library/fep/technotes/tncr002.pdf


Like I said, complicated and expensive. Done properly, it usually works.

Rich


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

And that PDF shows very different setup - for benefit of it, it already has a tall tower;
for your home you must create "a ring" around your property lot, not just a house; that's why I mentioned installing FOUR tower before.


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## westom (Aug 9, 2009)

P Smith said:


> ... for your home you must create "a ring" around your property lot, not just a house; that's why I mentioned installing FOUR tower before.


Four towers will not do effective protection for so many reasons. For example, an earthed tower only creates protection from direct lightning strikes in a 60 degree cone beneath that tower. Also it does nothing for the typically more destructive transients that occur when lightning strikes AC wires far down the street. That distant lightning strike is a direct strike to every appliance inside a building.

The application note does not require a ring. Ring is simply one of many types of single point earth ground. A ring around the property would do nothing. Single point earth ground (ring or other types) must be at each structure. Located so that every wire inside every incoming cable makes the "always required" short (ie 'less than 10 foot') connection to that ground.

In the app note, replace that tower with another building or a satellite dish. Everything still applies. This is not only simple. It is the least expensive solution. Only complicated when one has to first unlearn advertising.

Surgeon General in 1964 said cigarettes were unhealthy. Resulted in similar denials. Because advertising had proved that smoking increases health. Many educated by advertising will automatically deny any reality that contradicts the advertising. Unlearning myths and sound bytes is that hard.

What is required to avert A/V receiver damage also contradicts myths promoted by advertising. Many knew by never asking why. Then assume nothing can protect surges such as direct lightning strikes. Hardest part is unlearning those myths and outright lies promoted by advertising, retail salesmen, and junk science. No in-line solution will provide what the OP wants.

nickff had damage because a current found earth destructively via his LNB and receiver. Both the problem and effective solutions are about how that current gets absorbed by earth. Any solution that would stop or block that current is best called a scam. Protection means tens of thousands of amps safety connected as short as possible to single point earth ground. Otherwise that current will hunt for earth destructively via a receiver - or the dishwasher, air conditioner, bathroom GFCI, etc. Anything that would block that current suffers a voltage increase so that the current will blow through that 'blocking' device. Protection is always about 'diverting' to earth.

All structures must have their own single point earth ground. As demonstrated by the application note. Otherwise effective protection is not possible.


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## ThomasM (Jul 20, 2007)

After many years of servicing radio transmitters at remote tower sites, I learned that lightning can do an amazing amount of damage which most people who have never encountered it don't realize.

We had every type of surge protector, copper grounding systems, etc. and if it directly hit an antenna it blew everything apart. If it came in the power line due to hitting a nearby power pole, the so-called "surge protector/lightning arrestor" was generally vaporized and the equipment was damaged anyway.

Believe me, I learned my lesson! When lightning starts hitting nearby, ALL of my DirecTV equipment gets UNPLUGGED FROM THE WALL including the multiswitch. So do all my TV sets and other expensive electronic equipment.

Since my dish is mounted on the back wall of my house only five feet above the ground, chances are slim lightning will target it, but it IS possible.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

ThomasM said:


> ..
> Believe me, I learned my lesson! When lightning starts hitting nearby, ALL of my DirecTV equipment gets UNPLUGGED FROM THE WALL including the multiswitch. So do all my TV sets and other expensive electronic equipment.
> ..


I would do the same, but if nobody home ?


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

> Four towers will not do effective protection for so many reasons. For example, an earthed tower only creates protection from direct lightning strikes in a 60 degree cone beneath that tower. Also it does nothing for the typically more destructive transients that occur when lightning strikes AC wires far down the street. That distant lightning strike is a direct strike to every appliance inside a building.


Well, I didn't exclude all other components of the setup, especially those what working with AC lines at the house ... and data lines (say sat coax and phone line).


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## admdata (Apr 22, 2011)

A few years ago I had a lighting strike that hit my power transformer (at the pole), now there is about 100ft-200ft of overhead cable that goes from my transformer to my house, the lighting strike hit the transformer, blew it up, then the surge went though my phone and cable lines fried my amp for my 5.1 surround system, 2 phones were toast, my tv's tuner didn't work (once it was on for about 5 minutes), and I had 3 sets of video inputs all dead, also fried a tivo Series 2 (not a directv one), now mind you I had all this a/v equipment hooked up to a APC sunet700 backup power supply (still have that), since the surge went though the coax and phone line which were (not protected at the time), now I have a surge protector that covers phone and my sat line's installed with a 25,000 warrenty if this happens again.

BTW: all the equipment was off at the time with happened I was at work. 

it is amazing the power of lighting

250,000 volts at about 20,000 amps (give or take)


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

admdata said:


> ...
> 
> BTW: all the *equipment was off* at the time with happened I was at work.
> 
> ...


Wasn't right - all equipment should be disconnected from all lines: AC, phone, sat/cable coax, etc.

[And stored in metal cage - Faraday type ]


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## westom (Aug 9, 2009)

admdata said:


> since the surge went though the coax and phone line which were (not protected at the time), now I have a surge protector that covers phone and my sat line's installed with a 25,000 warrenty if this happens again.


That new protector would have done nothing useful. You describe destructive energy entering on AC mains. Items damaged are in a path from cloud to earth. Incoming on AC mains. Out to earth via coax and phone lines. Those other lines must already have superior protection. That existing superior protection is why surges inside a building obtain earth destructively via appliances connected to satellite, telephone, and cable.

What would the new protector do? Nothing. How does it cause those appliances to not be connected to earth? It doesn't. So it does not even say HOW it does any protection. An incoming AC mains surge will still obtain earth via the phone line and cable - with or without that miracle power strip.

Its warranty is also bogus. Read many fine print exemptions so that the warranty need not be honored. They were not selling protection. They were selling a profit center by keeping you uninformed.

Did you know every telephone and cable coax must already have best protection? Even required by codes and government regulation. How does a surge enter on those wires when best protection already exists? It doesn't.

Incoming utility wires that rarely have effective protection is AC electric. Once you let energy inside, then it will hunt for and destroy earthed appliances. Best connection to earth was via superior protection on cable and telephone wires located outside. Damage because you let energy get inside the building on AC mains.

Once energy is inside, then nothing (not that miracle $25,000 protector) will stop a destructive hunt. Nothing. Damage is averted only when energy dissipates harmlessly outside. Once energy is permitted inside, it will find earth destructively via various cable and telephone appliances. Understood even 100 years ago. You have seen what happens when any incoming wire is not properly earthed. You never solved the problem.

Why does your $25,000 protector not discuss any of this? Honesty would seriously reduce sales. When selling a $4 power strip with ten cent protector parts for how much? They were not selling protection. Reason for all that damage remains unsolved.

I routinely operate any applianc during all thunderstorms without worry. Effective protection even direct lightning strikes without damage.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

weston, would you describe in details your "effective protection" what allow you "operate any applianc during all thunderstorms without worry" ? 

I'm curious how it could be done for one house ...


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## westom (Aug 9, 2009)

P Smith said:


> I'm curious how it could be done for one house ...


 Already posted:


> All structures must have their own single point earth ground. As demonstrated by the application note. Otherwise effective protection is not possible.


 How it is done in any house:


> Effective solution says where hundreds of thousands of joules dissipate. ... superior solutions come from more responsible companies including General Electric, Polyphaser, Siemens, Intermatic, Cutler-Hammer, ABB, Keison, Leviton, and others. In every case, a protector always has that short (ie 'less than 10 foot') connection to single point earth ground. Always.


 Some incoming cables require no protector to have a superior protection. Coax cable must be earthed driectly (and short) before it enters. Telephone lines must connect each wire to earth via a telco 'installed for free' protector. But the most common source of surges - AC electric - typically has no protection unless you have upgraded earthing to meet and exceed post 1990 code. And earthed AC wires via a 'whole house' protector.

How good is that protection? How good is your single point earth ground? In every case, without exception, a protector is only as effective as its earth ground. Protection starts with the item that is protection: single point earth ground.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

I thought you could post pictures of the points of protection (devices) at your house ...


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## westom (Aug 9, 2009)

P Smith said:


> I thought you could post pictures of the points of protection (devices) at your house ...


 Far more important are the solution, corresponding numbers, and underlying concepts.

Pictures of 'whole house' protectors can be seen here:
http://www.google.com/search?tbm=is...protector&aq=f&aqi=&q="whole house" protector

Many forget about protection because it cannot be seen. Be it a lightning rod or surge protector. In every case, the item that defines protection is buried. Not visible.

Another example. Many argue about pointed verses blunt lightning rods. A mostly irrelevant argument because the earthing most defines the effectiveness of that rod. Many will argue about what they see (want pictures) rather than deal with the underlying concepts.


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## xmguy (Mar 27, 2008)

I too had this happen to my HR21 and Vizio HDTV. Lightning either hit my SL3 on my roof or near it. Ran into the receiver. Then thought the HDMI port to the TV. fried both HDMI ports on the TV and HR21. Unit still worked ok. Got D* to replace the receiver. I had the TV warrantied through Square Trade. They are fixing the TV. I will be unplugging the SAT connections and the TV next time there is a storm. Only way to be sure.


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## nickff (Dec 8, 2007)

If anyone is curious...

It turns out lightning did hit the dish or close enough to it for a surge to travel through the rg6 cable to the power inserter, to the DVR in the basement, through the HDMI to the A/V receiver, through the HDMI to the display, and apparently through the sub cable to my sub. 

DirecTV replaced the LNB and PI and everything seems to be working fine. My third-party warranty fixed the main issue with the A/V receiver (wouldn't turn on), but I had to have the HDMI board swapped out. The HDMI input that I was using on my display doesn't show video anymore but, supposedly, my display has independent HDMI inputs so the other three are working without issue. My subwoofer is not outputting at the level it once was, so SVS is sending me a new amp (great customer service BTW). I also had some damaged mortar on the side of the house that needed touching up.

I understand that unplugging items is the only sure-fire way to prevent damage, but we are not always home and there are quite a few things that would need unplugged to stop a surge from getting in and doing damage.


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## curt8403 (Dec 27, 2007)

Lightning is weird and scary stuff. I have been in a field during a dry thunder and lightning storm, and saw lightning strike the ground about 1 1/2 miles away and kick up a huge dust cloud. Needless to say, I left the area and did not return until later. 
I have also seen lightning strike a metal tower and since it likes to follow the path of least resistance, surrounding equipment turned out to be ok, as the tower was properly grounded.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

curt8403 said:


> Lightning is weird and scary stuff. I have been in a field during a dry thunder and lightning storm, and saw lightning strike the ground about 1 1/2 miles away and kick up a huge dust cloud. Needless to say, I left the area and did not return until later.
> I have also seen lightning strike a metal tower and since it likes to follow the path of least resistance, surrounding equipment turned out to be ok, as the tower was properly grounded.


Lightning pretty much does what it wants to do. Sometimes it seems to follow the laws of electricity, sometimes it defies them. Just something we have to live with and hope it doesn't hit near us.

Rich


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## admdata (Apr 22, 2011)

westom said:


> That new protector would have done nothing useful. You describe destructive energy entering on AC mains. Items damaged are in a path from cloud to earth. Incoming on AC mains. Out to earth via coax and phone lines. Those other lines must already have superior protection. That existing superior protection is why surges inside a building obtain earth destructively via appliances connected to satellite, telephone, and cable.
> 
> What would the new protector do? Nothing. How does it cause those appliances to not be connected to earth? It doesn't. So it does not even say HOW it does any protection. An incoming AC mains surge will still obtain earth via the phone line and cable - with or without that miracle power strip.
> 
> ...


The strip didn't cost me $25,000 that is the warranty, as I explained in my first post on this thread. I found the org receipt for that strip today as a matter of fact I bought it in 8/4/2007for $42.38 at Staples.

Also I was wrong about my router being toasted (the receipt and the old router where in a box that I found), and the router works (the internet port doesn't that rest of it is fine though)


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## westom (Aug 9, 2009)

nickff said:


> I understand that unplugging items is the only sure-fire way to prevent damage,


Unplugging is effective only if the equipment is not used. Surges rarely occur when expected and are not limited to lightning.

I do not see where the dish man corrected reasons for damage. For example, a dish must be earthed directly. And a signal wire from dish to the receiver must enter at the service entrance to make anohter short (ie 'less than 10 foot') connection to single point ground. Without these well proven solutions, then reasons for damage remain.

Lightning is not capricious despite popular myths that assume otherwise. Damage is also how to learn where protection was defectively installed. For example, if lightning did strike a dish, then what was a path to earth via each damaged item? This accomplishes two things. Defines where a protection system defect must be corrected. And can locate other potentially overstressed (not yet identified as failed) appliances.

Lightning always follows electricity rules. But many people do not understand those rules. Even forget lessons taught in elementary school science. For example, many assume a surge enters on one wire, does damage, and stops there. No incoming path exists if an outgoing path to earth also does not exist. Both paths must be identified to understand why damage happened. It did not just enter on an HDMI port, damage that port, and end there. It was also outgoing via some other wire; maybe a wire to a digital recorder, et al.

Damaged router is a perfect example. A surge incoming on AC would be incoming to every part inside that router. But the only outgoing path was internet connection. So only the internet interface IC had both an incoming and outgoing path; only that one part is damaged. Routine is for a surge to be incoming on every internal part. Without an outgoing path, all those parts are not damaged. Most parts in a surge damaged appliance are not harmed.

Early 20th Century Ham operators would disconnect radio antennas. Even put an antenna lead inside mason jars. And still suffered damage. Damage ended when disconnected antenna leads were earthed. Quite predictable. Only capricious when one does not learn these well proven lessons.


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## nickff (Dec 8, 2007)

westom said:


> Unplugging is effective only if the equipment is not used. Surges rarely occur when expected and are not limited to lightning.
> 
> I do not see where the dish man corrected reasons for damage. For example, a dish must be earthed directly. And a signal wire from dish to the receiver must enter at the service entrance to make anohter short (ie 'less than 10 foot') connection to single point ground. Without these well proven solutions, then reasons for damage remain.
> 
> ...


I would love to have my satellite system properly grounded, but I do not know how to get them to come out and do so nor would I know if it was done correctly. 

Right now, the only "grounding" I see on the outside of the house is a green wire that runs from a metal piece that allows four RG6 cables to be joined to four other RG6 cables to a spigot.

Is this what I should make sure they come out and do?: http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1936613&postcount=2


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## westom (Aug 9, 2009)

nickff said:


> I would love to have my satellite system properly grounded, but I do not know how to get them to come out and do so nor would I know if it was done correctly.
> Is this what I should make sure they come out and do?: http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1936613&postcount=2


Do not ground the system. Otherwise the system is the destructive path lightning uses to obtain earth. Ground lightning. Those earthing connections are required even by the National Electrical Code.

Grounding to water pipes (spigot) has been a violation for decades. The term 'single point earth ground' is defined by the NEC as any of five electrodes. Most homes use (at minimum) ten foot copper clad steel rods driven in earth just outside the AC electric box.

The dish should have its own earth ground rod. But dish installers can pocket another $12 if they do not. Code says that dish must be earthed. Should lightning strike, then current flows through a metal dish frame directly and harmlessly to earth. Not via LNB or any other electronics.

Option 2 in your picture is a ground block. Maybe $3 in Lowes. Must be located within feet of the above ten foot ground rods (as required by code). Coax cable enters at that point. Surge protected (earthed) by that ground block because it connects as short as possible (ie 'less than 10 feet') to earth.

Let's assume your satellite system is properly earthed. What is the most common incoming source of surges? AC electric. Once energy is permitted inside, then it will hunt for earth. A best path to earth is via your receiver and that properly earthed dish system. Earth all incoming wires to protect a dish system. Even phone wires.

Well, phones typically have a 'whole house' protector installed for free by the telco. Also only effective if it connects to those same ten foot ground rods. But AC electric is not required by code to have that protection. Earth one 'whole house' protector if you want to protect that satellite dish system. Protection is not a magic box. Protection is not grounded appliances. Protection is no energy inside hunting destructively for earth. Every incoming wire connected short to single point earth ground before entering.

Pipes and spigot (like wall receptacle safety grounds) are not earth ground. Typically too far away; excessive impedance. A connection from protector to earth must be a dedicated and short wire even without sharp bends. Protection is defined by a connection to and quality of your earthing. Earthing must both meet and exceed post 1990 code requirements.


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## nickff (Dec 8, 2007)

westom said:


> Do not ground the system. Otherwise the system is the destructive path lightning uses to obtain earth. Ground lightning. Those earthing connections are required even by the National Electrical Code.
> 
> Grounding to water pipes (spigot) has been a violation for decades. The term 'single point earth ground' is defined by the NEC as any of five electrodes. Most homes use (at minimum) ten foot copper clad steel rods driven in earth just outside the AC electric box.
> 
> ...


Just to make sure..

Are you suggesting running a grounding wire directly from the dish to a rod buried in the ground or are you suggesting a lightning protection system for the entire house?

I appreciate your input.


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## westom (Aug 9, 2009)

nickff said:


> Are you suggesting running a grounding wire directly from the dish to a rod buried in the ground or are you suggesting a lightning protection system for the entire house?


Treat a dish as if it were a separate structure. Each structure must have its own earth ground.

What must exist is defined in NEC Article 810(?). Technically, you must also connect that dish earth ground to the house earth ground. Can be accomplished with a buried and bare copper wire. That would enhance both earth grounds. But few actually take it that far.

Dish must be earthed by a wire that goes as short as possible to earth. Then a lightning strike to the dish goes lowest impedance to earth. And if the dish becomes electrically hot, then a human's foot and hand are at same voltage - no safety threat.

A coax entering the house must be earthed at that entrance by the house's single point ground. A different ground (that may or may not be interconnected to the dish's earth ground). Every wire that enters a house must connect short to this ground for both human safety and surge protection.


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