# Apple To Launch Dramatically Upgraded Apple TV With iPhone 12 Chip, Report Claims



## b4pjoe (Nov 20, 2010)

Apple To Launch Dramatically Upgraded Apple TV With iPhone 12 Chip, Report Claims


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

It's been rumored for a while that Apple will update the Apple TV line with either a variation of the A12 chip (seen on the iPad Pro devices) or the A14 chip. Nvidia's Shield TV line can already run AAA games via Steam Link & GeForce Now and was originally envisioned as more of a gaming device than media streaming player that it has been known for. Technically speaking all Shield TV models are able to handle console like graphics similar to Nintendo's Breath of the Wild since Shield TV & Switch use Nvidia's Tegra X1 line of SoCs. 

While I welcome an upgraded Apple TV (for Apple it is long overdue but at the same time the streaming device market except for Shield is still playing catch up) IMO Apple needs to focus on a less expensive range of Apple TV products.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

I'm not sure that Apple's marketing model would survive a new "lesser" model of the ATV at this point in streaming device evolution. To keep true to the product, they would pretty much have to slash the profit on the current ATV 4K as it would be difficult to cost-reduce it and still retain feature competitiveness and support for Apple Arcade. Would anyone buy a new ATV if it didn't do DolbyVision and promise Dolby Atmos? Apple is more about what people want than it is about what they need.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

harsh said:


> I'm not sure that Apple's marketing model would survive a new "lesser" model of the ATV at this point in streaming device evolution. To keep true to the product, they would pretty much have to slash the profit on the current ATV 4K as it would be difficult to cost-reduce it and still retain feature competitiveness and support for Apple Arcade. Would anyone buy a new ATV if it didn't do DolbyVision and promise Dolby Atmos? Apple is more about what people want than it is about what they need.


Yup and they are worth every penny. I'm gonna buy a new one just to see what's different. If the difference is noticeable I'll sell my "old" ATVs and upgrade.

Rich


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## NashGuy (Jan 30, 2014)

techguy88 said:


> While I welcome an upgraded Apple TV (for Apple it is long overdue but at the same time the streaming device market except for Shield is still playing catch up) IMO Apple needs to focus on a less expensive range of Apple TV products.


Apple reportedly had developed plans for a lower cost "Apple TV Stick" or some such a year or two back but in the end decided against it. Apple's model has never been to sell low-margin hardware and they could never compete with $50 4K HDR devices from Roku, Amazon and Google unless they sold them at cost and/or introduced ads to the home screen. And such a product would cannibalize sales of their more expensive Apple TV box. (I don't think many folks would buy the box just so they could play Apple Arcade.)

In the end, Apple apparently decided they were OK being a niche high-end player in the streaming TV hardware market as long as they could get their Apple TV app/service, and maybe even AirPlay, on all those cheap competitors and smart TVs. Will be interesting to see if the Apple TV app comes to Google's new Chromecast with Google TV.

As for the next-gen Apple TV box, in addition to more ambitious video games, I look for it to do better video processing and upscaling like the current-gen Nvidia Shield TV, with its superior AI upscaling. If Apple could deliver video processing like Sony's highest-end TV chip, that would be something. I expect it will also support decoding for the new AV1 codec.


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## itzme (Jan 17, 2008)

Rich said:


> Yup and they are worth every penny. I'm gonna buy a new one just to see what's different. If the difference is noticeable I'll sell my "old" ATVs and upgrade.
> 
> Rich


Ditto! There's not much more that I'm really hoping for, but I'm eager to see what's different. Maybe Atmos and DTS pass through? Even more integration with my other Apple iPad/iPhone? Maybe a "Hey Siri, what did he say?" Since i don't use the Apple remote. Maybe Stop that frame rate FPS issue that causes little jumps in original Netflix material (sorry to get so technical). Maybe get this middle-aged-to-old man interested in gaming? All those things would be nice.


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## b4pjoe (Nov 20, 2010)

I'm most interested in the new remote.


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## itzme (Jan 17, 2008)

b4pjoe said:


> I'm most interested in the new remote.


Im only interested in the remote if it'll also control my LG TV, and DirecTV, (and of course AVR) like my harmony and universal remotes can do. I hate having multiple remotes.


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## compnurd (Apr 23, 2007)

b4pjoe said:


> I'm most interested in the new remote.


Same.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

itzme said:


> Im only interested in the remote if it'll also control my LG TV, and DirecTV, (and of course AVR) like my harmony and universal remotes can do.


LG TVs can be particularly uncooperative. DIRECTV is easy. The AVR can usually be dealt with using HDMI-CEC unless you fiddle with sound modes a lot.

CEC is a game changer and I suppose that's why there seems to have been a paradigm shift away from universal remotes.


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## b4pjoe (Nov 20, 2010)

itzme said:


> Im only interested in the remote if it'll also control my LG TV, and DirecTV, (and of course AVR) like my harmony and universal remotes can do. I hate having multiple remotes.


I doubt that is going to happen. Is there any streaming box with a remote that can be setup to do all of that?

I went back and re-read the article for the part about the remote and it sounds like there might not even be a new remote. It seems they were talking about a new game controller not a remote.



> Fudge also claims that a new controller is coming. Since the current Siri remote control is unpopular with some users thanks to a sometimes-tricky touch-sensitive panel, *there will be many who are excited at a replacement remote with a different design.
> 
> They'll be disappointed, however, because when asked specifically, "When you say 'controller' do you mean a game controller or the remote control?", Fudge replied, "Game".*
> 
> While this doesn't rule out the possibility of a new remote control at the same time, which had been rumored separately earlier in the year, *it seems that that focus here is on gaming alone.*


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## itzme (Jan 17, 2008)

I just meant that the remotes are never an issue with me, since i have home theatre I need something univeral or a Harmony.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

The current 4K unit is fantastic for video. It probably doesn’t matter to much if it gets updated for that. For gaming they could make a huge jump with new hardware. It won’t surprise me if they have two units, one the current one at say 99 and then a gaming one for say 200. That would be the way they’d move closer to an entry level piece. Other than gaming though I wouldn’t expect any differences in new hardware from old hardware in terms of software abilities in what it can play etc.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

inkahauts said:


> It won't surprise me if they have two units, one the current one at say 99 and then a gaming one for say 200.


I'm betting on something closer to the new model being 50% more expensive putting the ATV 4K at around $130-140. I can't imagine that Apple could be happy with less than 200% margin.

A12 power is utterly wasted if you're not going to use it for something considerably more intense than streaming.


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## NashGuy (Jan 30, 2014)

itzme said:


> Maybe Stop that frame rate FPS issue that causes little jumps in original Netflix material (sorry to get so technical).


Have you gone into the Apple TV's settings and turned on "Match Frame Rate"? That should cause it to output content shot at 24 frames per second (which is the vast majority of movies and scripted TV series) at its native 24 Hz cadence. But you'll need a TV that has a native 120 Hz or 240 Hz panel, though (because 120 and 240 are evenly divisible by 24; lower-end 60 Hz panels won't work since 60 is not evenly divisible by 24).

I don't do that on mine, though, because when the Apple TV 4K outputs at 24 Hz to my LG OLED (2016 B6 model), it causes a weird flickering/pulsing in the picture. It's not noticeable on some scenes but very much so on others (especially if I'm viewing in a darkened room). So I just let the Apple TV output everything at 60 Hz, which means doing a 3:2 pulldown conversion on all that 24 frames-per-second content. Fortunately, the Apple TV does a really good job at that, IMO. I don't really have any complaints about motion handling.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

NashGuy said:


> Have you gone into the Apple TV's settings and turned on "Match Frame Rate"? That should cause it to output content shot at 24 frames per second (which is the vast majority of movies and scripted TV series) at its native 24 Hz cadence. But you'll need a TV that has a native 120 Hz or 240 Hz panel, though (because 120 and 240 are evenly divisible by 24; lower-end 60 Hz panels won't work since 60 is not evenly divisible by 24).
> 
> I don't do that on mine, though, because when the Apple TV 4K outputs at 24 Hz to my LG OLED (2016 B6 model), it causes a weird flickering/pulsing in the picture. It's not noticeable on some scenes but very much so on others (especially if I'm viewing in a darkened room). So I just let the Apple TV output everything at 60 Hz, which means doing a 3:2 pulldown conversion on all that 24 frames-per-second content. Fortunately, the Apple TV does a really good job at that, IMO. I don't really have any complaints about motion handling.


In Settings, I see Match Content. Where is Match Frame Rate?

Rich


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## compnurd (Apr 23, 2007)

Rich said:


> In Settings, I see Match Content. Where is Match Frame Rate?
> 
> Rich


they should be right next to each other. You may have to turn Match Content on to show frame rate


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

harsh said:


> I'm betting on something closer to the new model being 50% more expensive putting the ATV 4K at around $130-140. I can't imagine that Apple could be happy with less than 200% margin.
> 
> A12 power is utterly wasted if you're not going to use it for something considerably more intense than streaming.


They've sold the old Apple TVs for 99 before and that's a certain price point. It's still be highly profitable and if all their stuff, subscriptions are the bread and butter going forward more than ever. So they can sell a product at 100% profit and be happy as a clam.

With that said a new gaming appletv at 250 or 300 is also possible.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

inkahauts said:


> They've sold the old Apple TVs for 99 before and that's a certain price point.


That was before they started bundling the boxes with Apple TV+. The cheap version of the Apple TV HD currently retails for $149.


> With that said a new gaming appletv at 250 or 300 is also possible.


Perhaps if they include some serious extras (like a gaming controller and Apple Arcade subscription -- in addition to the Apple TV+ subscription).


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## NashGuy (Jan 30, 2014)

Rich said:


> In Settings, I see Match Content. Where is Match Frame Rate?
> 
> Rich


I guess in this most recent update to tvOS 14, Apple grouped together Match Dynamic Range and Match Frame Rate together under Match Content in the A/V settings. (I just realized this.) So click Match Content and then you'll see those two separate options that you can individually turn on or off.


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## itzme (Jan 17, 2008)

I feel like I’d be comprising something if I turned off Match DR or Match FR. the ATV forum at AVS Forums recommends keeping both on. I have an LG C8. I was just remarking that the current ATV does have that issue (my TV doesn’t and my FireTV doesn’t).


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

compnurd said:


> they should be right next to each other. You may have to turn Match Content on to show frame rate


Yup, that worked, thanks.

Rich


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

harsh said:


> That was before they started bundling the boxes with Apple TV+. The cheap version of the Apple TV HD currently retails for $149.Perhaps if they include some serious extras (like a gaming controller and Apple Arcade subscription -- in addition to the Apple TV+ subscription).


Appletv plus is irrelevant. They didn't increase regular prices when they launched plus. I don't ever recall the current Hi Definition model with Siri being 99 regularly. It was the one without. I'm harking back a ways to get to the 99 version.


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

From what I remember the Apple TV 3rd Gen was $99 when they released the Apple TV HD (4th Gen). IIRC Apple TV HD was launched at $149 for the 32GB model and $179 for the 64GB model. When Apple released the Apple TV 4K (5th Gen) the ATV HD 64GB model was discontinued because the ATV 4K 32GB model replaced it at the $179 price-point while the ATV 4K 64GB model was priced at $199. Now Walmart regularly prices the ATV HD 32GB at $144 & ATV 4K 32GB at $169.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

inkahauts said:


> They didn't increase regular prices when they launched plus.


They had also exceded two years without a hardware upgrade at that point.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

harsh said:


> They had also exceded two years without a hardware upgrade at that point.


So? Time alone isn't reason to put our new hardware. Needs to be some real reason.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

inkahauts said:


> So? Time alone isn't reason to put our new hardware. Needs to be some real reason.


There is an expectation from the faithful that there will be periodic upgrades. Keeping the cash flow rate up is always a good reason even if there isn't much new.


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## harperhometheater (Aug 31, 2012)

itzme said:


> ......Maybe Stop that frame rate FPS issue that causes little jumps in original Netflix material (sorry to get so technical). .......





NashGuy said:


> Have you gone into the Apple TV's settings and turned on "Match Frame Rate"? That should cause it to output content shot at 24 frames per second (which is the vast majority of movies and scripted TV series) at its native 24 Hz cadence. But you'll need a TV that has a native 120 Hz or 240 Hz panel, though (because 120 and 240 are evenly divisible by 24; lower-end 60 Hz panels won't work since 60 is not evenly divisible by 24).
> 
> I don't do that on mine, though, because when the Apple TV 4K outputs at 24 Hz to my LG OLED (2016 B6 model), it causes a weird flickering/pulsing in the picture. It's not noticeable on some scenes but very much so on others (especially if I'm viewing in a darkened room). So I just let the Apple TV output everything at 60 Hz, which means doing a 3:2 pulldown conversion on all that 24 frames-per-second content. Fortunately, the Apple TV does a really good job at that, IMO. I don't really have any complaints about motion handling.


The issue isn't just setting the output to 24Hz, frame rate matching, etc. The issue is that it outputs at exactly 24Hz instead of the required 23.975 Hz which is what results in the occasional frame skipping/stutter that's being noticed due to the mismatch in cadence.


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## itzme (Jan 17, 2008)

harperhometheater said:


> The issue isn't just setting the output to 24Hz, frame rate matching, etc. The issue is that it outputs at exactly 24Hz instead of the required 23.975 Hz which is what results in the occasional frame skipping/stutter that's being noticed due to the mismatch in cadence.


Right. But there still needs to be a fix or a setting to "adjust 23.975" since Netflix uses it so much, and since I've had to switch over to my LG or FireTV Netflix app when the stutter starts annoys me.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

itzme said:


> Right. But there still needs to be a fix or a setting to "adjust 23.975" since Netflix uses it so much, and since I've had to switch over to my LG or FireTV Netflix app when the stutter starts annoys me.


You may be in error in assuming that there is a software fix to the problem. I expect that if it were that easy, Apple would have done it long ago.

OTOH, if it is just a matter of a clock setting and they haven't done it, they'll have dirt (in the classic sense) on their face.


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## NashGuy (Jan 30, 2014)

harperhometheater said:


> The issue isn't just setting the output to 24Hz, frame rate matching, etc. The issue is that it outputs at exactly 24Hz instead of the required 23.975 Hz which is what results in the occasional frame skipping/stutter that's being noticed due to the mismatch in cadence.





itzme said:


> Right. But there still needs to be a fix or a setting to "adjust 23.975" since Netflix uses it so much, and since I've had to switch over to my LG or FireTV Netflix app when the stutter starts annoys me.


Hmm, are you sure it isn't the other way around, i.e. the 24Hz setting on Apple TV actually outputs at 23.976Hz rather than 24.0Hz? See this Change.org petition urging Apple to fix the problem:

Sign the Petition

It looks like there's some content out there that is natively 23.976 fps and other stuff (including a growing amount of recent Netflix Originals) that is natively 24.0 fps. So I guess streaming devices need to be able to accommodate both.

At any rate, I keep frame rate matching turned off on my Apple TV 4K for a couple of reasons. First, when it's on and outputting content at 4K 24Hz, my LG OLED displays a weird pulsating flicker in dark areas of the screen in certain scenes. I even took my ATV4K to an Apple Store and they swapped it out but the new one still does it. The LG TV definitely doesn't do this with 4K 24p content from its own internal apps (which I haven't used much in a long while now). Don't know about from any other streaming device connected via HDMI.

The other problem I ran into was needing different amounts of audio delay from my receiver for 24Hz vs. 60Hz content. Lips moving out of sync with spoken words drives me up the wall. I can set a certain number of milliseconds audio delay and it's in sync for 60Hz content output from the Apple TV but then it'll be noticeably off for 24Hz output, and vice versa.

So I just let the Apple TV output everything at 60Hz. Fortunately, it does a very good job of processing video and doing 3:2 pulldown on 24 fps content. I hardly ever notice motion that looks weird.


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## harperhometheater (Aug 31, 2012)

itzme said:


> Right. But there still needs to be a fix or a setting to "adjust 23.975" since Netflix uses it so much, and since I've had to switch over to my LG or FireTV Netflix app when the stutter starts annoys me.


Agreed, but NashGuy was making it seem as if just setting it to Native (24Hz in this case) was all it took to alleviate the issue and it's not. Although he did bring it up with his experience with Netflix, so I just wanted to clarify.


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## harperhometheater (Aug 31, 2012)

NashGuy said:


> Hmm, are you sure it isn't the other way around, i.e. the 24Hz setting on Apple TV actually outputs at 23.976Hz rather than 24.0Hz? See this Change.org petition urging Apple to fix the problem:
> 
> Sign the Petition
> 
> ...


Yes that very well could be the case and my mind has them reversed. Thanks for the clarification.


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