# Should I buy a 921?



## wonderlamb (Jun 24, 2004)

I just got notice that I am now at the front of the waiting list and can get a 921 in about one week. The question is, should I? I have seen so many error reports and bugs that I am hesitant.


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## pez2002 (Dec 13, 2002)

next time do a search


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## wonderlamb (Jun 24, 2004)

I did. Next time keep your arrogant snot boy comments to yourself.


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## deweybrunner (Feb 8, 2004)

Wonderlamb, if you have a chance to get a 921 absolutely do so. So much you read on these forums is coming from those who just want to ***** about something. By the time you get yours Dish will have sent out the latest software which should clear up most problems. Hopefully shortly thereafter we will be getting OTA guide information. I have one of the first units and really like it. I have had very few minor problems. I highly recommend the 921.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

Or you can ask your dealer if you can pass on this one, get the next one and see how the next software fix goes. If you look over all the posts you'll see that some software upgrades fix things but then break something else that used to work just fine.


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## SlicerMDM (Feb 12, 2003)

deweybrunner said:


> By the time you get yours Dish will have sent out the latest software which should clear up most problems. Hopefully shortly thereafter we will be getting OTA guide information.


Personally, I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole. But that's just me.

Buy it based on what it can do today, not based on what a future upgrade "may" bring. The above statement pretty much covers updates...

--> "should" clear up "most" problems ...
--> "hopefully shortly thereafter" we will ...

That's all anyone can ever say about updates and it's just wishful thinking.

Don't buy based on "should", "hopefully", and "coming soon" or you'll just be another person complaining on the forums.


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## deweybrunner (Feb 8, 2004)

Slicer, if you are not a 921 owner then stay off this forum. Your statements just show what little you know. You might not "touch one" however there are hundreds who are very happy with their units, just like me. My unit works fine, as most.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

What is the main problem with the 921 now? Is it the ota isssues or the timers not firing or keep recording till the hard drive is full. I am getting one Monday and would like to know what is the average over all common problem . I waited 18 months for the 721 to become stable so I would expect as long for the 921. Still waiting for the Dish home apps to fully work on the 721.


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## TV Director (Feb 14, 2004)

Jump on it!


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## pez2002 (Dec 13, 2002)

wonderlamb said:


> I did. Next time keep your arrogant snot boy comments to yourself.


dont you ever talk to me like that ever agian understand me u Newbie


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## deweybrunner (Feb 8, 2004)

Mark, isn't there anything you can do about the Direct tv people, like Pez200 from coming on this forum and 'bashing Dish," the 921, and all the work you and others are doing. He and a few others are doing all they can to discourage anyone from purchasing the 921. Wonderlamb don't pay any attention to him. Like I said earlier, when the next software comes out, most of the minor problems will be taken care of.


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## SlicerMDM (Feb 12, 2003)

deweybrunner said:


> Slicer, if you are not a 921 owner then stay off this forum. Your statements just show what little you know. You might not "touch one" however there are hundreds who are very happy with their units, just like me. My unit works fine, as most.


I didn't realize I have to own a 921 to post in this forum. The forum admin can make this rule clear to me if this is the case. I doubt it is.

It's pretty solid advice to buy something ... not just the 921 but ANYTHING ... based on how it works NOW rather than how it MIGHT work later. Maybe you like to spend $1000 on something that MIGHT work sometime down the road, but I don't and I assume others don't either.


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## pez2002 (Dec 13, 2002)

deweybrunner said:


> Mark, isn't there anything you can do about the Direct tv people, like Pez200 from coming on this forum and 'bashing Dish," the 921, and all the work you and others are doing. He and a few others are doing all they can to discourage anyone from purchasing the 921. Wonderlamb don't pay any attention to him. Like I said earlier, when the next software comes out, most of the minor problems will be taken care of.


I was not bashing dish i simply told him to do a search so we would not have 100 topics of the same topic

And my name is Pez_2002 not pez2000


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## Mark S. (May 14, 2004)

Wonderlamb,

I have had my 921 for a little over a month now. I like deweybrunner have had very few issues with my 921. Yes, the unit is not perfect at it's present state but it does everything I expected it to do when purchased and does it pretty well almost all of the time.  

If your like me and want to be able to view and record HD while staying with DISH, and want the ability to watch one show while recording another, then the 921 is the way to go. $1000 is a lot to spend on a DVR but IMO the 921 is well worth the money I spent.

Don't take advice from someone who doesn't have a clue what they are talking about because they have never used the product. Maybe they are just jealous of the fact that you have moved high enough on a waiting list to get one and can afford to do so, and they either haven't or can't. :hurah: :hurah:


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## JM Anthony (Nov 16, 2003)

wonderlamb said:


> I just got notice that I am now at the front of the waiting list and can get a 921 in about one week. The question is, should I? I have seen so many error reports and bugs that I am hesitant.


I've had mine for over a month and really enjoy it. Is it perfect? Nope. Is E* working to fix it? Yeah, they appear to be. Would I do it again? Ya Sure Youbetcha.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

To answer the question on how well the 921 works, I think the best and most accurate response is from Mark Lamutt in this thread: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=28598

His response is: *As for reliability, for some it's great. For others it's the worst thing that has ever been made. For most everyone else, it's somewhere in between.*

So you and you alone need to answer the question do you want to gamble $1,000 on a product that may be your dream machine, your machine from hell or something that works most of the time but may end up not recording your favorite show every now and then, maybe.


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## kmcnamara (Jan 30, 2004)

deweybrunner said:


> Like I said earlier, when the next software comes out, most of the minor problems will be taken care of.


Dewey, no offense, but you have no way of knowing if this is true or not. The last 2 updates have done nothing (except fix the crashing with Sirius channels that they had created in the previous release). Mark doesn't even know for sure - he's occasionally surprised when they send an update because they don't always seem to keep him in the loop like they should.


If you need an HD receiver - consider the 921.

If you would like to be able to pause and rewind with an HD reciever - consider the 921.

If you need a reliable HD DVR, consider the 921, but don't be surprised if you're disappointed with the current quality level - especially for a $1000 IRD

I'm really glad for those of you that are either not experiencing or not bothered by the problems that I and many others have with the 921 (such as frequently missed recordings and OTA channels that lock up). I'm also certain that most of these problems will be fixed "someday". But *CURRENTLY*, my 921 is only marginally better than my old 6000 and it cost a lot more.

Obviously, YMMV.

*** Edit: This thread should probably be moved to the Dish DVR forum since it's not really a support issue.


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## tahoerob (Mar 22, 2003)

I have had mine since JANUARY!!!
I would definitely recommend it.
Being in the first wave, we got a little bloodied. Now we are approaching Paris!!
My OTA works great. When guide data shows up soon ......wonderful.
I like the HD pak & I also get HBO HD & Showtime HD. I find that with the current HD channels, I easily keep ~10 hours of recorded HD available to watch at my leisure.
It is GREATLY more stable now except for the timer thing! But rebooting once a week is a small current hassle for a one box solution.
DVR is the way to go regardless of TV. However, if you have a HDTV, get a HD DVR.
If you have Dish.....get 921.
If you have DirecTv.....get HD Tivo.
If no service yet look at these 2 & Voom. Voom does not have HD DVR yet but plans one this year. Worth keeping an eye out.
I like Dish for overall lineup & I still get SD locals for now. (good for bad OTA days due to atmospheric factors)
I think all 3 will keep up with each other wihin 6 months of any major anouncement of any 1 service. ie adding new HD channels. Best bet is to check out friends & neighbors who have the services & see them in real time. 
Some Sears stores have Dish & Voom running on displays. 
The price is really not bad considering you get a TWO tuner satellite DVR (like 721) that also does HD. It is also a OTA HD tuner that RECORDS. PLUS, we now have added Sirius RADIO for no extra cost! If you got seperate components it would cost MORE.


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

Well, wonderlamb, you've now seen the whole gamut of 921 opinions. Mine works better than most - probably because I don't use OTA. The software quality and updates are crap - as someone said, don't count on anything being fixed, but it is a good satellite DVR with a huge HDD. I think if it had no OTA, it would be a much better box, and Eldon could spend more time trying to deal with the basic functionality issues.

I wish they would've dropped OTA instead of Firewire.


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## JerryLA (Dec 29, 2003)

I just got my 921 today and it apparently has a problem with SD tuning and has to be replaced. I'm very pleased to have it. If I wanted a perfect unit I would never have bought a 921. I'm willing to work through the problems. Just the couple of hours I've had mine up and running I love it. Recording without a "VCR" is something I"ve been waiting for. But thats just my opinion......


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

My statement has already been posted in this thread about the 921 reliability. My personal opinion is this - I'm planning at some point in the not too distant future on getting a 2nd one. 

But, this is not the forum for this thread, so it's getting moved now.


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

Mark Lamutt said:


> My statement has already been posted in this thread about the 921 reliability. My personal opinion is this - I'm planning at some point in the not too distant future on getting a 2nd one.
> 
> But, this is not the forum for this thread, so it's getting moved now.


They better be GIVING you the second one - you've earned it!


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## Slordak (Dec 17, 2003)

If you live by yourself and you don't mind fighting with computers or electronic devices, you'll enjoy having the 921. If there are other people in your house who have to use it, or you are not that technically inclined, you probably won't really want to get one at this point in time. 

In my opinion, the unit requires constant babying and paying attention to "what to do" and "what not to do" when changing channels, setting timers, watching channels over the air, etc. The first time you set it to record some important show and it fails to do so, you'll be pissed. When it keeps doing that, you'll want to throw it out the window. Hence, if you have a significant other, you'd best not subject them to that kind of punishment.


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## Cyclone (Jul 1, 2002)

I am waiting for the OTA Guide information (and to see how well they implemented it), and the DP+44 switch (or a DP+ DLNB).


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## garypen (Feb 1, 2004)

deweybrunner said:


> Slicer, if you are not a 921 owner then stay off this forum. Your statements just show what little you know. You might not "touch one" however there are hundreds who are very happy with their units, just like me. My unit works fine, as most.


Slicer's comments, including his reply, were good, logical, and useful bits of advice. There was no malice. No bashing. Just good, sound advice, as was _most_ of the advice on this page, pro or con.

And, oh yeah, he broke no forum rules in making his post. Relax. It's a fuggin machine. A _THING_. People are allowed to offer their opinions on it. It's nothing to get upset about, and no one needs to be banned from the forum.


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## rgiffin (Jan 27, 2004)

I have had my 921 since January. 

The typical line is, wait for the next release and things will be much better. I've heard that since January...and my patience is now gone. 

Current issues include:
No DishWire
No OTA recording...whatsoever...none.
Timer events fire about 5% of the time...and the system needs rebooted every night.
No OTA guide data

This is the most basic functionality...and they can't get it right.

This system is criminally deficient and should be recalled. I can't get out of my contract just yet, but as soon as I do, I will never go back to Dish. The only way they will learn not to sell sh!t is to loose customers over it.


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

Well, the "most basic functionality" is satellite receiver & DVR. It does that OK. Better for some than others.

OTA is problematic with many receivers, and at least a fair chunk of the problems have to do with the TV stations themselves.

But NO DISHWIRE!!! That's the one that has me all pissed off for sure!


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## tahoerob (Mar 22, 2003)

rgiffin said:


> I have had my 921 since January.
> 
> Current issues include:
> No DishWire
> ...


Dish wire........... I do not care  
OTA record works fine for me
TImers......work fine for me. I now will reboot once a week as preventive until next upgrade.
No OTA guide.............yes it is a pain, but I have SD locals too to check.

NOT THAT BAD!!!!


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## garypen (Feb 1, 2004)

Not that bad? For $1000 it should not only work near perfectly, it should massage my feet and make me coffee.


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## Anthony Falcone (Dec 19, 2003)

There was a hardware problem which caused them to stop production till they fixed it. I think that there must still be units out there that don't have that hardware fix and the most vociferous complaints are coming from people with those units . 

I am guessing that rgiffen has a bad one since I think they stopped production sometime after he got his 921. People that have received their 921's recently seem to have less complaints. 

Don't get me wrong, I still think the 921 is far from perfect and destined to be replaced by the 942 anyway, but the constant rebooting and missed timers lead me to believe that it's the box he has.


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## tahoerob (Mar 22, 2003)

garypen said:


> Not that bad? For $1000 it should not only work near perfectly, it should massage my feet and make me coffee.


We all buy $15-30000 cars that give us more aggravation. 
I had a VW that was a true lemon last year. For $20k+ I expected a lot better too!!!!

Its all realtive.


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## kmcnamara (Jan 30, 2004)

tahoerob said:


> We all buy $15-30000 cars that give us more aggravation.
> I had a VW that was a true lemon last year. For $20k+ I expected a lot better too!!!!
> 
> Its all realtive.


I'm pretty sure that if 75% of the VW buyers had lemons, there would be hell to pay. We're not talking about an isolated bad 921. These problems are systemic.


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

Anthony Falcone said:


> There was a hardware problem which caused them to stop production till they fixed it. I think that there must still be units out there that don't have that hardware fix and the most vociferous complaints are coming from people with those units. ...


The hardware problem was a specific picture anomaly (blue lines). Absolutely nothing to do with anything else mentioned here.


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## Anthony Falcone (Dec 19, 2003)

Ahhh that's right, I forgot about the blue line problem. But, isn't it odd that some people seem to be having more problems with the 921 than others? Wouldn't that point more towards a hardware problem ? 
Also, when they stopped production to fix the blue line thing, I wouldn't doubt for a second that there was more than just that being fixed. They've hardly been forthcoming in admitting ANY problems with ANY of their receivers.


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## tahoerob (Mar 22, 2003)

kmcnamara said:


> I'm pretty sure that if 75% of the VW buyers had lemons, there would be hell to pay. We're not talking about an isolated bad 921. These problems are systemic.


Well you are not too far off about VW, they had to RECALL over 2 million engines due to failures in ignition coils. I had one fail on mine & it sat at dealer for 2 weeks!!! So VW may actually be a good analogy for the 921 :lol:

I fully agree that the 921 was too slow to market after announced & not fully tested for quality before release. However, it is the first of its kind to combine 2 DBS tuners, with DVR, with HD decoder, with OTA HD decoder, with HD & OTA DVR capability.

It will be interesting to see how the D* HD Tivo does its first month out. If it does better with function & quality to go along with easy availability then D* is doing a much better job then E*. By this fall, after D* adds HD & Voom has its HD DVR, I would have no problem switching services despite my current E* 921 status


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

tahoerob said:


> It will be interesting to see how the D* HD Tivo does its first month out. If it does better with function & quality to go along with easy availability then D* is doing a much better job then E*. By this fall, after D* adds HD & Voom has its HD DVR, I would have no problem switching services despite my current E* 921 status


The HD Tivo's been available since April, I got mine the end of mid May. There are two major problems with the box. The first is that the audio on the HDNet channel, and only the HDNet channel drops out every now and then and you need to change channels to get it back. Looking at posts over at Tivocommunity it looks like the audio drop will hit many folks at the same time. So far no word on when it will be corrected, the HDNet engineers say it's a D* problem and D* knows about it.

The other 'major' issue is that some boxes are missing the channel logo's, like the NBC peacock or the CBS eye. I don't have them on mine and it really doesn't bother me but a number of folks really miss them.

There are reports of the occasional box that goes dead or a bad HDMI port but it looks like it's doing much better then the 921 and has much better availability.


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

Quite right Anthony - E* has a habit of attempting to hide their lack of perfection - and the more they try the more obvious it becomes.

As for more/less problems, in general, not using OTA means your 921 will be more stable. If you use OTA, the problems are various - and a lot of those seem to depend on just what the local TV stations are doing - like whether they're sending PSIP or not.

I got my box in the beginning of February, about 6 weeks after I placed the order through a small local dealer, and it's been great hardware-wise, but for all I know the OTA tuner is totally inop. Never tried to use it and probably never will.


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## tds4182 (Jul 17, 2003)

I was one of the first purchasers of an HD Tivo. Mine shipped from Value Electronics in the first batch on 1/16/2004. I've had it for a little over 5 months now and it's rock solid. No reboots, both OTA and Satellite HD are fine and I've not had any of the audio dropout problems that are discussed in some of the othe forums (especially related to HD NET broadcasts).

I had an SD Tivo prior to purchasing the HD Tivo and both work perfectly.

That's just my one person's experience--I'm very happy with my HD Tivo!



tahoerob said:


> Well you are not too far off about VW, they had to RECALL over 2 million engines due to failures in ignition coils. I had one fail on mine & it sat at dealer for 2 weeks!!! So VW may actually be a good analogy for the 921 :lol:
> 
> I fully agree that the 921 was too slow to market after announced & not fully tested for quality before release. However, it is the first of its kind to combine 2 DBS tuners, with DVR, with HD decoder, with OTA HD decoder, with HD & OTA DVR capability.
> 
> It will be interesting to see how the D* HD Tivo does its first month out. If it does better with function & quality to go along with easy availability then D* is doing a much better job then E*. By this fall, after D* adds HD & Voom has its HD DVR, I would have no problem switching services despite my current E* 921 status


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## kmcnamara (Jan 30, 2004)

I hear the HDTIVO program guide is slow (this is one area where the 921 shines). Otherwise, I haven't heard too many negatives.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

kmcnamara said:


> I hear the HDTIVO program guide is slow (this is one area where the 921 shines). Otherwise, I haven't heard too many negatives.


There are two different guide formats, the DirecTV grid which is horribly slow and the Tivo grid which is just plan slow. But I make up the time not waiting for a reboot 

The slow guide issue effects all the DirecTivo units, it's not just the HD version. From what I've read on other forums it looks like something that won't be fixed anytime in the near future due to the amount of design change that must take place.


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## knealy (Jul 6, 2002)

I'm scheduled to get my 921 on Wednesday, 6/30/04. I currently have a 721 and should be able to just disconnect it and connect the 921. Is there anything else I should know about initializing the 921? Anything special about starting it for the first time?


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## tahoerob (Mar 22, 2003)

knealy said:


> I'm scheduled to get my 921 on Wednesday, 6/30/04. I currently have a 721 and should be able to just disconnect it and connect the 921. Is there anything else I should know about initializing the 921? Anything special about starting it for the first time?


Connect.
DO switch check.
Upgrade software if it does not do it itself.
You may need to use the 721 remote or a 501/301 remote until after software update.
Software download may take 30-45 min!!! REBOOT.
Do not call TS (if needed) until AFTER software download!!! THey are encouraged to stay on the line with you if you call before/during......BORING.....!!


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## tahoerob (Mar 22, 2003)

ALSO, you may want to check the early post by Mark L about setting up 921 in this section.


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

tahoerob said:


> Connect.
> DO switch check.
> Upgrade software if it does not do it itself.
> You may need to use the 721 remote or a 501/301 remote until after software update.
> ...


Note that "REBOOT" means 'hard' (pull power-plug) reboot.


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## knealy (Jul 6, 2002)

SimpleSimon said:


> Note that "REBOOT" means 'hard' (pull power-plug) reboot.


Thanks all for your recommendations!


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## knealy (Jul 6, 2002)

One more question. I have a Sony 42" LCD projection HDTV with a DVI input. Does it matter if I use the component inputs vs. the DVI? Can you see any difference? The local Magnolia Hi-Fi store says these cables cost from $100-600!

Also, the manual (I downloaded it) says to be sure to use a DVI-I cable. What's this all about? How do I get the right cable/connectors.


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## knealy (Jul 6, 2002)

And one more question. My TV has both 720p and 1080i. Which should I set the 921 to? Does 1080i look better?


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## tahoerob (Mar 22, 2003)

knealy said:


> One more question. I have a Sony 42" LCD projection HDTV with a DVI input. Does it matter if I use the component inputs vs. the DVI? Can you see any difference? The local Magnolia Hi-Fi store says these cables cost from $100-600!
> Also, the manual (I downloaded it) says to be sure to use a DVI-I cable. What's this all about? How do I get the right cable/connectors.


I have a Sony GW 50 in LCD RPTV. I had used a DVD for calibration with component. When I tried testing with a $10 DVI cable, it looked WORSE then component. Thus, with DVI it might need some calibration to look better. You need to test both to see which factory settings look good. HDNet has a 15 min test pattern it runs ~once a week if you know how to use it for calibrating HD signal. Otherwise you pay someone ~$300 to come out to the house to HD callibrate. The calibration DVDs tecnically can only set you up to optimize 480p via component!!
DVI cables run from $10-200!! Get one from Best Buy or Circuit City for ~$50-100 and return it if needed. 
DVI-I vs DVI-D has something to do with whether it can carry analog/digital mixed signals. Someone else might be able to explain in more detail. Overall, the connector is shaped differently.
I have read all the info that DVI is technically better. I have also read that it does not matter!!!
So......I use component & have been quite happy.



knealy said:


> And one more question. My TV has both 720p and 1080i. Which should I set the 921 to? Does 1080i look better?


Mine does 720p only native. Again, same story about 720p vs 1080i. It all depends who you read. Most HD content is 1080i except ESPN, ABC, & soon Fox. I set my 921 to 1080i. Thus, 1080i in 921...1080i out to TV....let TV convert signal only once to native. If you set 921 to 720p: 1080i in.....921 converts to 720p.....720p out.....to 720 or 1080 conversion of TV. I trust the circuitry of the Sony TV more than the 921 for messing with the signal!!!!
The 921 seemed to cause overscanning issues when I set it to 720. 1080i looked better overall to me.
Thus for you, set 921 to 1080i. That way most content will stay 1080i all the way to your eye w/o manipulation. You could always change the 921 to 720p for Sun(ESPN) or Mon(ABC) Night Football games!!


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## RobbinMerritt (Jan 29, 2003)

I have a 60" Sony LCD (XBR) that I had adjusted via component input using Avia and the AVSForum.com "UMR" tweaks for the Service Menu. When I plugged in my 921 via DVI, it was necessary to copy my component service menu settings to DVI -- most of the settings are input specific. 

I assume that there are some differences between DVI and component that make doing this less than a perfect solution, but it made my DVI look much better. Without this, DVI didn't look nearly as good as component did. I'd forgotten how much improvement UMR's tweaks made.


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## knealy (Jul 6, 2002)

RobbinMerritt said:


> I have a 60" Sony LCD (XBR) that I had adjusted via component input using Avia and the AVSForum.com "UMR" tweaks for the Service Menu. When I plugged in my 921 via DVI, it was necessary to copy my component service menu settings to DVI -- most of the settings are input specific.
> 
> I assume that there are some differences between DVI and component that make doing this less than a perfect solution, but it made my DVI look much better. Without this, DVI didn't look nearly as good as component did. I'd forgotten how much improvement UMR's tweaks made.


What are the "UMR" tweaks? Where can they be found? The DVI signal is much brighter and slightly clearer than the component signal on my 42" Sony LCD projection HD monitor.

I got my 921 and am very happy with it, though it does have a couple of glitches. It becomes even more evident that we need some way to get HD program off it in full resolution since the disk fills up so fast. Or if we can't get them off, then a way to upgrade the in box storage.

Also it's a disappointment to discover so many so-called HD programs are down res'd and not really HD at all. Still in all it's very impressive. HD is obviously in it's infancy both technically and program wise. Many of the HD programs are curiously unsophisticated in their editing and camera techniques compared to network TV and film. Hopefully the HD producers will find some more professional producers and directors to remedy this.


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## RobbinMerritt (Jan 29, 2003)

knealy said:


> What are the "UMR" tweaks? Where can they be found? The DVI signal is much brighter and slightly clearer than the component signal on my 42" Sony LCD projection HD monitor.


Search the Rear projection forum of avsforum.com for "UMR."


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