# New Panasonic Plasmas best FP Ever Tested!



## bobukcat

Let's hope the new Panasonice plasma (starting with the G10) can save Plasma until something truly better can replace it. According to HDGuru and others it has better color reproduction, white uniformity and black details than the previous reference Pioneer Elite. Add in the smaller form factor due to reduced bezels and power consumption comparable to similar sized CCFL LCDs and it's truly a remarkable new product:

http://hdguru.com/panasonic-tcp50g10-50-plasma-review/416/


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## BattleZone

> The TCP50G1 accepts 1080p/24 signals that may be displayed at 48Hz or 60 Hz. Like last year's TH50PZ850 reviewed here, the 48 Hz rate suffers from image flicker and is deemed unwatchable. Use the 60 Hz mode.


This part is very, very disappointing. After last year, you'd think they'd have fixed this. Most plasmas use 72 Hz (3:3) to display 24p content. Panasonic doesn't seem to understand how important 1080/24p is...  It's a big black mark on an otherwise fantastic TV.


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## dettxw

Gonna have to pay more and get the V10 series.
From CNET:

"The company also includes a "24p direct in" setting that's available when the TV detects a 1080p/24 source, typically from a Blu-ray Disc. As with the PZ800U and 850U models from last year, choosing the "48Hz" setting, as opposed to the standard 60Hz setting, causes the display to refresh at 48Hz to match the 24fps cadence of film. And as with last year's sets, selecting 48Hz on the G10 causes flicker--more intense in brighter areas, but visible pretty much constantly--that basically renders the image unwatchable. We don't expect any of the videophiles toward whom this setting is aimed to stand for the flicker, so we kept the G10 set to 60Hz. It's worth noting that the step-up V10 series refreshes at 96Hz, according to Panasonic, so the flicker shouldn't be a problem on those sets."

CNET Review.


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## hdtvfan0001

WIth Visio and Pioneer already pulling the plug on Plasmas just in the past 45 days....investing in any Plasma unit seems pretty risky... :eek2:

I'm just saying...


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## Nick

hdtvfan0001 said:


> WIth Visio and Pioneer already pulling the plug on Plasmas just in the past 45 days....investing in any Plasma unit seems pretty risky... :eek2:
> 
> I'm just saying...


If you buy it and you like it and it lasts 5-10 years, who cares what other mfrs are doing with plasma? Also, it's not an "investment" but a cost or, at best, a capital expenditure.

I'm just saying...


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## vollmey

hdtvfan0001 said:


> WIth Visio and Pioneer already pulling the plug on Plasmas just in the past 45 days....investing in any Plasma unit seems pretty risky... :eek2:
> 
> I'm just saying...


Panasonic was building most of Pioneers stuff, and Vizio who flipping cares they pulled the plug. Plasma's are not going away anytime soon. If Panasonic will market these bad boys to the newbies who are afraid of burn in and all the other rumors they have heard about Plasma's, they would do very well. The problem is most folks who buy Plasma's know what the heck they want and what they want it to look like. They are not awed by an LCD turned to max power in the store. And that is not the majority.

I have "given" away all of my LCD TV's in favor of Plasma, and will never go back. All though I once thought like you did and thought LCD's where the way to go.


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## hdtvfan0001

Nick said:


> If you buy it and you like it and it lasts 5-10 years, who cares what other mfrs are doing with plasma? Also, it's not an "investment" but a cost or, at best, a capital expenditure.
> 
> I'm just saying...


Lasting that long is a mighty big assumption.

I know of at least 2 that never made it to their 2nd birthday.

Of course, they do make a great space heater. 


vollmey said:


> Plasma's are not going away anytime soon.


Really?

Is that why there are almost no manufacturers left other than Panny?

They are going somewhere - the Smithsonian.


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## vollmey

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Lasting that long is a mighty big assumption.
> 
> I know of at least 2 that never made it to their 2nd birthday.
> 
> Of course, they do make a great space heater.
> 
> Really?
> 
> Is that why there are almost no manufacturers left other than Panny?
> 
> They are going somewhere - the Smithsonian.


It's funny hdtvfan, your an DLP guy looking at your setup. Besides Samsung and Mitsubishi ( and Samsung makes some fine DLP TV, no doubt about it) no one is left in the DLP world either ( besides some off brands ). Your DLP stuff will be in the Smithsonian well before the Plasma world comes to an end. I bet two more years max in the DLP world, and Panny will make Plasma's past that. So your argurment is somewhat against old technology, which I own as do you.

I will say this again. In the store you see and Samsung DLP and an Panny Plasma I bet 75% of the buyers will look at that Samsung and say wow and buy it. But the Wow factor can't compare to a Panny Plasma set up right. But you can't explain that to a buyer that wants to buy a TV, you can't. Plasma's are bought buy buyers that know exactly what they are looking for in a picture.

Your Marantz projector is nice though!!


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## hdtvfan0001

vollmey said:


> It's funny hdtvfan, your an DLP guy looking at your setup. Besides Samsung and Mitsubishi ( and Samsung makes some fine DLP TV, no doubt about it) no one is left in the DLP world either ( besides some off brands ). Your DLP stuff will be in the Smithsonian well before the Plasma world comes to an end. Your Marantz projector is nice though!!


Thanks....yes, actually I was recently told by the owner of a $32,000 high end CRT projector that my imagery with the Marantz was better than his (per his eyeballs), but there are still 11 manufacturers of DLP equipment, mostly projectors, and only 2 plasma ones left on the planet. DLP rules. :lol:

Seriously though....plasma is dead, lets face it. It's not that it didn't have a nice picture, because it indeed did. It because they cost too much (both to buy and manufacture), give off more heat than a nuclear power plant, and had years of burn-in and other issues before they finally got it right, during which timeframe other technologies passed them by.

Time have changed and so has technology. Add in the cost factor where you can get 2 LCDs for the same price as 1 plasma of the same size, and you have a roadmap for losing the battle.

There are some neat new things coming out - and seeing high-end projectors with extremely great images (as well as lower lamp and operating costs), which now cost 1/2 or less what I paid just 3 years ago makes things great for Home Theater fans.

Fact is, this stuff changes so fast that almost anything you buy is half obsolete by the time you plug it in - much like PC's. The good news is that everything is getting better with image delivery and cheaper at the same time. HD viewing is a wonderful thing.


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## bobukcat

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Seriously though....plasma is dead, lets face it. It's not that it didn't have a nice picture, because it indeed did. It because they cost too much (both to buy and manufacture), give off more heat than a nuclear power plant, and had years of burn-in and other issues before they finally got it right, during which timeframe other technologies passed them by.
> 
> Time have changed and so has technology. Add in the cost factor where you can get 2 LCDs for the same price as 1 plasma of the same size, and you have a roadmap for losing the battle.
> 
> [SNIP]
> 
> Fact is, this stuff changes so fast that almost anything you buy is half obsolete by the time you plug it in - much like PC's. The good news is that everything is getting better with image delivery and cheaper at the same time. HD viewing is a wonderful thing.


Okay, I'm going to have to take issue with those exagerations:

I have a 50' 720P Pioneer plasma about 3 years old in a relatively small bedroom and if it's on for 4 or more hours you can start to feel some heat of off it, but it's far from a space heater and probably puts off less than my PS3. The new 60" 1080P Pioneer can be on all day and the fans never even come on - you have to put your hand ON the thing to feel any real heat off of it, again far from a space heater and MUCH quieter (nearly silent) than my 62" DLP.

As for price, I helped 3 different people choose a new FP TV this Christmas and all 3 of them bought a Panny Plasma for the same or LESS than a comparably sized / spec'd LCD from a quality manufacturer. If you want high-end picture you may pay more for Plasma but the high-end LCDs are usually just as expensive in the same size / spec range.

LCD continues to suffer from off-angle brightness, contrast, and color reproduction loss - something plasma has never suffered from. Vizio said they were dropping Plasma because it didn't show as well in the big-box stores, mainly because they weren't as bright in torch mode as the LCDs. The G10 can produce a picture much brighter than previous plasmas and on par with the LCDs and it has better anti-reflective coatings than previous (glare being the other big complaint about plasma because of the glass panel) models so perhaps it will show better in the stores. Personally I've always thought they look just fine in the stores, but as others have said I know what I'm looking for / at, and those buyers will tend to buy plasma anyway.


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## hdtvfan0001

OK...now I respectfully have to take issue with your inaccuracies...


bobukcat said:


> I have a 50' 720P Pioneer plasma about 3 years old in a relatively small bedroom and if it's on for 4 or more hours you can start to feel some heat of off it, but it's far from a space heater and probably puts off less than my PS3.


There are fire code rules in at least 2 states I know of just specific to Plasmas based on the amount of heat they give off and risk tied to it. For example, you cannot locate them in locations that other devices are acceptable.


> As for price, I helped 3 different people choose a new FP TV this Christmas and all 3 of them bought a Panny Plasma for the same or LESS than a comparably sized / spec'd LCD from a quality manufacturer.


I think you'll find that is *NOT* at all the case. Plasma costs more.

Panny 50" Plasma ($1800):
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=9236338&st=plasma&lp=5&type=product&cp=1&id=1218064404632

Sharp 52" 1080p LCD:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=9034323&st=LCD+HDTV&lp=9&type=product&cp=7&id=1218010851328



> LCD continues to suffer from off-angle brightness, contrast, and color reproduction loss - something plasma has never suffered from.


That was indeed the case with many 1st generation units, but not the case with most units constructed the past 12-24 months. I have one unit with a full wide range of angle view, no limits. Contrast is 8000:1 and color reproduction is outstanding. There are many LCDs with similar specs.



> Personally I've always thought they look just fine in the stores, but as others have said I know what I'm looking for / at, and those buyers will tend to buy plasma anyway.


You could say that of any HDTV - frankly, almost no one properly tunes HD units in stores anyway. You see how it was set from the factory out of the box there...not what it can or will look like at home - including plasma units.

Put simple, here are the realities:

1) The number of folks making plasmas is rapidly dwindling to almost none
2) Plasmas almost always cost more
3) Plasmas may restrict you choices on location of the unit based on local fire codes
4) Plasmas are more cumbersome to install based on their weight

For all those reasons, any purchasing investment in a Plasma HDTV at this point is riskier than alternative choices.


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## Lee L

I would love to see some citation on those state fire codes. Personally, owning both LCD an plasma, I see no way the plasma could put out enough heat to cause a fire. Sure, they can make more heat than an LCD, but 80-100 degrees is a far cry from staring a fire.

Also, LCD has become more and more competitive, starting a few years back in the smaller sizes and the break even point has moved up gradually, but you also skipped over at least one lower level 1080p Panny plasma in your comparison, http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=9236294&type=product&id=1218064394819 . This brings the differential down to $100 and this does not take PQ into account. Without veiwing the 2 sets, there is no way to tell and anyone why would decide an over $1500 purchase that will last for several years and be seen every day by only $100, is suspect as a judge IMO. Also, comparing prices at just one store does not mean it is truly cheaper.

ALso, I have installed a dozen or so flat panel TVs over the years for myself, freinds and family, and while Plasmas may be heavier, you are not talking 500 pounds v 100 pounds here. In the specific TVs you cited, it is 53 v 71. Clearly not a burdensome difference.

Much of the diffference, now that LCD has become better, is down to personal choice, buit there are various specs and characteristics that favor both LCD and Plasma. Thats why there are two seperate forums over at AVS about it. Personally, I like the look of Plasma and would buy all plasma if I could, but since plasmas do not go below 40, you have to go LCD in that size or lower. (like in my Rec room, I have one 46 plasma that I love. However, we are looking to put in 2 additional TVs but a 32 or maybe a 37 is all that will work. I can't go plasma there.)


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## hdtvfan0001

Lee L said:


> Personally, I like the look of Plasma and would by all plasma if I could, but since plasmas do not go below 40, you have to go LCD in that size or lower.


Nothing wrong with making a personal choice. Nothing at all.

The point earlier, however, was those choices should be based on the knowledge that there are factors to consider which may result in looking back later (after spending one's hard-earned money) and regretting the choice.

Having the technology disappear off the planet (and the disappearance of product support) is just one example of that kind of risk. Plasma is not far from that point.


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## bobukcat

hdtvfan0001 said:


> OK...now I respectfully have to take issue with your inaccuracies...
> 
> There are fire code rules in at least 2 states I know of just specific to Plasmas based on the amount of heat they give off and risk tied to it. For example, you cannot locate them in locations that other devices are acceptable.
> 
> I think you'll find that is *NOT* at all the case. Plasma costs more.
> 
> Panny 50" Plasma ($1800):
> http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=9236338&st=plasma&lp=5&type=product&cp=1&id=1218064404632
> 
> Sharp 52" 1080p LCD:
> 
> http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=9034323&st=LCD+HDTV&lp=9&type=product&cp=7&id=1218010851328
> 
> That was indeed the case with many 1st generation units, but not the case with most units constructed the past 12-24 months. I have one unit with a full wide range of angle view, no limits. Contrast is 8000:1 and color reproduction is outstanding. There are many LCDs with similar specs.
> 
> You could say that of any HDTV - frankly, almost no one properly tunes HD units in stores anyway. You see how it was set from the factory out of the box there...not what it can or will look like at home - including plasma units.
> 
> Put simple, here are the realities:
> 
> 1) The number of folks making plasmas is rapidly dwindling to almost none
> 2) Plasmas almost always cost more
> 3) Plasmas may restrict you choices on location of the unit based on local fire codes
> 4) Plasmas are more cumbersome to install based on their weight
> 
> For all those reasons, any purchasing investment in a Plasma HDTV at this point is riskier than alternative choices.


I'll believe the fire codes statement when I see it, until then......

HD Guru, and Home Theater Magazine will disagree with you on the issue of off-angle contrast, brightness and color reproduction. I don't have the link handy but HT Mag's double blind tests revealed that even with the HIGHEST END Sony, Samsung and other LCDs (current generation models were tested) sufferred VERY noticable off-angle degredation when placed next to plasma screens.

I agree that the number of people making them is shrinking but I'll trust Panasonic and Samsung to stand behind their products and even purchase an extended warranty if I'm really worried about it before I choose a inferior product for the same amount, or nearly same amount of money. In fact, if I was that worried about it I wouldn't buy ANY of the current technologies because they are all likely to replaced by something else in a few years - but I've always been an early adopter so I take my chances.

I won't start a Sharp LCD versus Panny Plasma debate here, but IMHO they are not comparable quality and performance wise.


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## hdtvfan0001

bobukcat said:


> I don't have the link handy but HT Mag's double blind tests revealed that even with the HIGHEST END Sony, Samsung and other LCDs (current generation models were tested) sufferred VERY noticable off-angle degredation when placed next to plasma screens.
> 
> I won't start a Sharp LCD versus Panny Plasma debate here, but IMHO they are not comparable quality and performance wise.


You're taking things too literally....these were examples, not direct comparisons. If that was the intent, other units would have been better to directly compare.

In any case, the degredation you describe on the LCDs is for beyond normal room viewing range (more than 140 degrees) - yes for that, the Plasma would have an advantage - but hardly anyone watches at those angles anyway.

As for quality...that's brand specific, not technology specific.

Finally, no one said a manufacturer wouldn't stand behind their product, especially the dwindling list of Plasma makers....the point was that once they go away, the access and resources for support will equally diminish.

Example - try getting a 3-lense color projector serviced. The list of people supporting this fine (and very expensive) technology are few and far between. Parts are hard to come by, and the number of techs servicing them is shrinking daily. I'd expect Plasma to be in that same camp a year from now.


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## vollmey

I'm curious hdtvfan. Some guy pulls you off the street and want to buy a TV and has $2000 to spend and wants it 50" or larger. He tells you he watches alot of movies and is somewhat into sports. He sub's to D* and will purchase a Blueray player with the TV, but $2000 max on the TV. And, he wants the best bang for his buck. What TV today do you recommend today, or new models coming in lets say 60 days?

If your honest with him, and you take your byass away from your dislike of Plasma's, you would steer him straight into a plasma. Right!!


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## hdtvfan0001

vollmey said:


> I'm curious hdtvfan. Some guy pulls you off the street and want to buy a TV and has $2000 to spend and wants it 50" or larger. He tells you he watches alot of movies and is somewhat into sports. He sub's to D* and will purchase a Blueray player with the TV, but $2000 max on the TV. And, he wants the best bang for his buck. What TV today do you recommend today, or new models coming in lets say 60 days?
> 
> If your honest with him, and you take your byass away from your dislike of Plasma's, you would steer him straight into a plasma. Right!!


I've had that situation actually come up in big box stores, and after discussing it with the potential buyer, asking them how they intend to use the HDTV...they always migrate away from plasma.

OK - I admit it...I'm a plasma biggot. 

Friends don't let friends buy plasma...at least if you want to keep them as friends past the first year of ownership... :lol:


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## vollmey

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I've had that situation actually come up in big box stores, and after discussing it with the potential buyer, asking them how they intend to use the HDTV...they always migrate away from plasma.
> 
> OK - I admit it...I'm a plasma biggot.
> 
> Friends don't let friends buy plasma...at least if you want to keep them as friends past the first year of ownership... :lol:


Ok, so what model TV would you set a guy up with today?


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## hdtvfan0001

vollmey said:


> Ok, so what model TV would you set a guy up with today?


Depends on the screen size, features required, budget, and location it will end up in your home. Location comes into play in terms of connections and whether you want a matte screen or regular screen (more glossy). Matte screens are better to offset glare in "sunny" rooms.

Even those expensive infamous plasma's had issues with that problem from time to time. 

If it was that easy a question to answer...the guys at Best Buy could do it. :lol:

Assuming you're looking for a 46" or larger screen (I can't handle anything less than 50" HDTV myself at this point :eek2, Samsung, Sharp (AQUOS) and Sony (Bravia) are among some popular units.

You can actually hone in on perhaps 2-3 units, and do some viewing of user reviews over at AVSForum, searching on model numbers. That might give you some real world experience feedback on specific HDTV's.


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## Lee L

hdtvfan, I know I was probably editing while you posted your response to me and you might have missed one or two things, but it sure looks like you chose to ignore an awful lot in my post questioning your alleged facts. 

Remember, this comes from someone who owns both plasma and lcd.


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## bobukcat

hdtvfan0001 said:


> You're taking things too literally....these were examples, not direct comparisons. If that was the intent, other units would have been better to directly compare.
> 
> In any case, the degredation you describe on the LCDs is for beyond normal room viewing range (more than 140 degrees) - yes for that, the Plasma would have an advantage - but hardly anyone watches at those angles anyway.
> 
> As for quality...that's brand specific, not technology specific.
> 
> Finally, no one said a manufacturer wouldn't stand behind their product, especially the dwindling list of Plasma makers....the point was that once they go away, the access and resources for support will equally diminish.
> 
> Example - try getting a 3-lense color projector serviced. The list of people supporting this fine (and very expensive) technology are few and far between. Parts are hard to come by, and the number of techs servicing them is shrinking daily. I'd expect Plasma to be in that same camp a year from now.


It's simply not true that you need to go to 140 degrees (or even close to that) to get degredation of contrast, black-level and color accuracy on many "quality" LCDs. In their tests of the highest end Sony (more expensive than a KURO BTW) and Samsung LCDs along with Pioneer and Panny plasmas in November of 08 here are a few comments from their reviewers:

http://www.hometheatermag.com/lcds/face_off_at_the_hdtv_corral/index.html



> While I know LCD sets suffer when viewed off axis, I was shocked at how little I had to move off center to see image degradation. The Samsung and Sony were side by side, and one seat was lined up dead center where the two sets met. Sitting in that seat, four picture heights away, it was almost impossible to even compare the two LCDs head to head because the off-axis performance of each was so affected.





> One of the biggest observations of the day was how the LCD TVs lost picture quality when viewed from even slightly off axis. Both the Sony BRAVIA and the Samsung HDTVs lost black level when viewed from any seat that was not centered in front of the TV.





> I could live with the LCD sets (which I rated the lowest) if I could install a device that locked my head at an angle directly in front of them. Off axis, these things frankly got a little weird. Color shifted, light levels flattened out, shadow detail decreased, children cried, dogs started barking, horses ate each other. If you live alone and never move your body, then these are the sets for you. (Or I suppose your family could take turns watching the same movie.)


It's no surprise that the Pioneer won this comparison but the Panny plasma, which was $2500 cheaper than any of the other sets tested was noted as what several reviewers would buy if value for the dollar was their main priority.

LCDs are getting better, but IMHO you can still buy a better performing plasma for the same amount of money unless you want a smaller screen, have a very bright viewing area (the G10 Panny may resolve this), or you are going to have a static image displayed for VERY long periods of time.


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## peano

And lets not forget the massive resolution loss most LCDs have during fast moving scenes. I find it unbearable. 

Another big negative - SD on an LCD looks terrible, disgusting, awful and crappy.


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## hdtvfan0001

bobukcat said:


> LCDs are getting better, but IMHO you can still buy a better performing plasma for the same amount of money...


But in the end...they are almost extinct now, and will be soon enough.

Encouraging people to buy something that is going away would not see like prudent advice. I equate to buying an Oldsmobile 2 years ago....sure...the prices came down, GM dealers would still service them, and some ranked a model or two as very good, but in the end...an orphan, just like plasma will soon be.

Maybe all those former manufacturers who have now increasingly abandoned plasma, leaving only 2 players, knew something.....hmmmmm.


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## bobukcat

hdtvfan0001 said:


> But in the end...they are almost extinct now, and will be soon enough.
> 
> Encouraging people to buy something that is going away would not see like prudent advice. I equate to buying an Oldsmobile 2 years ago....sure...the prices came down, GM dealers would still service them, and some ranked a model or two as very good, but in the end...an orphan, just like plasma will soon be.
> 
> Maybe all those former manufacturers who have now increasingly abandoned plasma, leaving only 2 players, knew something.....hmmmmm.


If you use that as a litmus test I wouldn't recommend any current HT equipment as it all may be replaced by different techology within two years - my thoughts are that it's better to select the best currently available (in your price / size range) and enjoy it while you can. LCD is certainly not the long-term future of TV sets like CRT was 25 years ago. In fact I doubt we'll ever see a single technology enjoy such dominance for as long of a period of time ever again.

If Panasonic and Samsung can find a way to make their plasma products look better in the Big Box stores and keep prices comparable they may see their market share hold or improve.


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## Steve

I've got two Panny plasmas and one Fujitsu, and couldn't be happier. The Fujitsu 50" (which uses Panasonic "glass") has been on an average of 4-5 hours per day for 5 years now with nary a hiccup, and it looks better today than most LCD's I see. Same with my sister's 55" Fujitsu, a year older than mine and equally "well-used" in her home.

The Panny's and Fujitsus are each rated for 60,000 hours before "half-brightness", which would equal 32 years of use at 5 hours per day. Seeing as how my Fujitsu's brightness hasn't yet diminished at all (it is still currently set to "0" on a scale of -60 to +60), it's possible these panels will easily outlive me.  /steve


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## hdtvfan0001

bobukcat said:


> If you use that as a litmus test I wouldn't recommend any current HT equipment as it all may be replaced by different techology within two years


There is some validity to your point as well...probably not what you intended, huh? 

Anyone who constructs a dedicated Home Theater with rack mounted equipment like a few of us have, and invests plenty of $$$ doing it, would/should also need to assume that some equipment will need to be updated, replaced, or changed over time. So yes, you are indeed correct.

In my case, I assumed that in the construction, and have ample opportunity to change components (and even cabling in walls) without reinventing any wheels or significant impact.

The litmus test still holds true.

But rather than back-and-forth how great plasma is (and no one said they are not a joy to view)...the issue really comes down to:

QUESTION: Is spending thousands of dollars on technology that you know *up front *will likely expire some time in the near future a wise choice?

In the end, that's a personal decision with no right or wrong answer. To some folks it won't matter in the least.

To those with plasma...enjoy (as I'm sure you are already doing). To those who are thinking about getting plasma, ask and answer the question above of yourself first. If it doesn't matter, then let 'er rip and get one.


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## Steve

hdtvfan0001 said:


> [...]QUESTION: Is spending thousands of dollars on technology that you know *up front *will likely expire some time in the near future a wise choice?[...]


Huh? Is the plasma you buy today going to be unable to display a picture in 5 years? /steve


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## Lee L

So what if they stop making plasmas tomorrow? (of course this is far from happeneing as evidently Panasonic has found a way to make good money off of them). It is not like they will come in and bust up your TV.

Does the fact that LCD has used and transitioned away from several different competing technologies over the years cause the older LCD TVs (you might even call them obsolete  ) to stop working? If your older 60 hz dies and now 3 years later all they make are 120hz panels are you up the creek? According to Wikipedia, there are at least 5 different technologies that are all LCD. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LCD If you have a TV of one, but a new manufacturing process is now being used, it does not stop yours from working..

If a TV stops working, it is more likely that some electronic board died and that has nothing to do with the actual display panel. Then again, if your actual panel dies and you are out of warranty, you are probably screwed no matter what technology as the panel usually costs at least 50% of the cost of a new TV and usually closer to 75%, not even accounting for improvements causing the following generations to be cheaper and better. Sad as it seems, the days of a TV that can be repaired economically, compared to the first cost are pretty much gone, at least for some parts of the TV.


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## hdtvfan0001

Steve said:


> Huh? Is the plasma you buy today going to be unable to display a picture in 5 years? /steve


That's not the issue....the issues are if it fails to display a picture in 2 years or more....what will be the owners ability to find qualified service, parts availability, and affordable versions of them both.

That same standard holds true of any substantial electronics purchase.


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## hdtvfan0001

Lee L said:


> So what if they stop making plasmas tomorrow? (of course this is far from happeneing as evidently Panasonic has found a way to make good money off of them). It is not like they will come in and bust up your TV.
> 
> Does the fact that LCD has used and transitioned away from several different competing technologies over the years cause the older LCD TVs (you might even call them obsolete  ) to stop working?


LCD and DLP are just 2 of numerous alternatives to plasma.

The key item is *IF/WHEN *they fail...what is the impact...?

I have friends who had to pay over $875 getting a 42" plasma serviced from a manufacturer who recently terminated in that market. They ended up having to go to another state to locate a qualified repair facility who also had access to the right parts. It will only get worse if the plasma market dries up.

For the umpteenth time - if people feel compfortable knowing these risks, then by all means - buy a plasma and enjoy it. If not, they might want to consider an alternative display platform.


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## Steve

hdtvfan0001 said:


> That's not the issue....the issues are if it fails to display a picture in 2 years or more....what will be the owners ability to find qualified service, parts availability, and affordable versions of them both.
> 
> That same standard holds true of any substantial electronics purchase.


Do you think Panasonic is going to be unable to service any display it sells today 5 years from now? And that's assuming you'd want to spend the $$$ to service it.

As *Lee L* correctly points out, once the warranty (or extended warranty) runs out in 2-3 years, it probably not even worth repairing, e.g., a typical 42" plasma or LCD or any piece of electronics that you purchase today for $600-$800. /steve

EDIT:



hdtvfan0001 said:


> I have friends who had to pay over $875 getting a 42" plasma serviced from a manufacturer who recently terminated in that market. They ended up having to go to another state to locate a qualified repair facility who also had access to the right parts.[...]


Exactly Lee's point. A top of the line Panny 42" Viera can be had for $700-$800, no tax, free shipping. Why even bother to fix?


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Steve said:


> As *Lee L* correctly points out, once the warranty (or extended warranty) runs out in 2-3 years, it probably not even worth repairing, e.g., a typical 42" plasma or LCD or any piece of electronics that you purchase today for $600-$800. /steve
> 
> A top of the line Panny 42" Viera can be had for $700-$800, no tax, free shipping. Why even bother to fix?


I know of no one personally who spent *less *than $2000 on a plasma...of course...they all wanted something over a 32" screen...

I even know of 3 people who spent over $3000 the past 12 months alone. One, interesting enough, returned it and got a high end LCD and pocketed $1000 in the process.

But yes, even might Panasonic (who I happen to like alot), can easily change gears and divest themselves of support quickly if they made that kind of business decision to do so.


----------



## Steve

Ya. I spent $6k for my 50" Fujitsu 5 years ago. That doesn't mean I'll spend a penny to repair it if I ever have to. Not when that Panny in the OP will probably have a street price of around $1500 with arguably the best picture money can buy today, if that reviewer is correct. And the best 42" plasmas today are all gonna be $1k or less.

I spent $900 for my second Panny 42", about 18 months ago. My son bought both 50" and 42" Panny (720p) plasmas last September for under $2k... total! /steve


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Steve said:


> Ya. I spent $6k for my 50" Fujitsu 5 years ago. That doesn't mean I'll spend a penny to repair it if I ever have to. Not when that Panny in the OP will probably have a street price of around $1500 with arguably the best picture money can buy today, if that reviewer is correct. And the best 42" plasmas today are all gonna be $1k or less.
> 
> I spent $900 for my second Panny 42", about 18 months ago. My son bought both 50" and 42" Panny (720p) plasmas last September for under $2k... total! /steve


Anything less than a 42" screen is painful to these old eyes Steve...:lol:

Best wishes to you and fellow plasmatics (not sure if that's a real world, but I don't mean anything bad by it).


----------



## bobukcat

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I know of no one personally who spent *less *than $2000 on a plasma...of course...they all wanted something over a 32" screen...
> 
> I even know of 3 people who spent over $3000 the past 12 months alone. One, interesting enough, returned it and got a high end LCD and pocketed $1000 in the process.
> 
> But yes, even might Panasonic (who I happen to like alot), can easily change gears and divest themselves of support quickly if they made that kind of business decision to do so.


I know many people that have paid less than $2K for 50" plasmas, in fact you can buy a 50" Pioneer Kuro from BEST BUY for $1998, right now (and if I needed another TV I would in a heartbeat)! You can call that a close-out if you want but there are also two 50" pannys (both 1080P) for even less, and that's not even on sale and at Best Buy.

As for availability of parts / repair, I have a four year old Mitsubishi DLP that they can't get parts for replacement / repair on and Mits is still very much in the DLP game - so this can happen regardless of what they are still manufacturing in four years.

I will tell anyone who asks that all the technologies have their pros and cons, but I never spread FUD about one or the other and try to steer people based on it. If they ask my opinion I will gladly tell them I prefer Plasma but, as I told a friend whose location was prone to a lot of glare it's not perfect for everything.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

bobukcat said:


> I know many people that have paid less than $2K for 50" plasmas,


Congrats - that wasn't the case a year or so ago...



> As for availability of parts / repair, I have a four year old Mitsubishi DLP that they can't get parts for replacement / repair on ....


Exactly my point...not a good situation for *any* platform.



> I will tell anyone who asks that all the technologies have their pros and cons, but I never spread FUD...


There you go....you had to cross the line and make it personal and insulting... 

Whoa is me...


----------



## Steve

hdtvfan0001 said:


> WIth Visio and Pioneer already pulling the plug on Plasmas just in the past 45 days....investing in any Plasma unit seems pretty risky... :eek2:





hdtvfan0001 said:


> Lasting that long is a mighty big assumption.
> 
> I know of at least 2 that never made it to their 2nd birthday.
> 
> Of course, they do make a great space heater.





hdtvfan0001 said:


> Seriously though....plasma is dead, lets face it.





hdtvfan0001 said:


> There are fire code rules in at least 2 states I know of just specific to Plasmas based on the amount of heat they give off and risk tied to it. For example, you cannot locate them in locations that other devices are acceptable.





hdtvfan0001 said:


> OK - I admit it...I'm a plasma biggot.
> 
> Friends don't let friends buy plasma...at least if you want to keep them as friends past the first year of ownership... :lol:





hdtvfan0001 said:


> But in the end...they are almost extinct now, and will be soon enough.
> 
> Encouraging people to buy something that is going away would not see like prudent advice. I equate to buying an Oldsmobile 2 years ago....sure...the prices came down, GM dealers would still service them, and some ranked a model or two as very good, but in the end...an orphan, just like plasma will soon be.
> 
> Maybe all those former manufacturers who have now increasingly abandoned plasma, leaving only 2 players, knew something.....hmmmmm.





hdtvfan0001 said:


> QUESTION: Is spending thousands of dollars on technology that you know *up front *will likely expire some time in the near future a wise choice?





hdtvfan0001 said:


> There you go....you had to cross the line and make it personal and insulting...
> 
> Whoa is me...


You bombard someone's pro-plasma thread with comments like those above, and then post you feel victimized? Give us a break, won't ya? /steve


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Steve said:


> You bombard someone's pro-plasma thread with comments like those above, and then post you feel victimized? Give us a break, won't ya? /steve


*You guys* made it pro-plasma...if you read the first post, he said "Let's hope the new Panasonic plasma (starting with the G10) can save Plasma...."

Pointing out the fact that it likely won't, as well as the impact therein, are logical considerations. 

To knowlingly steer someone towards a large purchase without telling them all the risks/alternatives is simply not the right thing to do.

You also apparently missed the " " tongue in cheek reference.


----------



## bobukcat

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Congrats - that wasn't the case a year or so ago...
> 
> Exactly my point...not a good situation for *any* platform.
> 
> There you go....you had to cross the line and make it personal and insulting...
> 
> Whoa is me...


I actually think I dis-proved your point because the manufacturer in question (Mits) is still making the same basic technology (DLP) as they were yet parts are still unavailable. If we translate that to an LCD (since you seem to prefer them) manufacturer (let's use Sony) it can be said they are as likely to not have repair parts available for any of their current LCD sets in four years, even if they are still making LCD TVs. On the other hand, people who bought an LG Plasma recently may have no problem getting them serviced in four years, who knows - certainly not you or I.

At no point did I make it personal, I'm simply a BIG fan of people being able to come here and get accurate infomation (as I have so many times - thank you DBS Talk!!) so I provided a counter-point to your "Plasma is a bad idea" argument. I will also note that I didn't accuse you of spreading FUD (in fact it didn't enter my mind when I wrote that - I was thinking more of the common salesperson) but I _did_ supply references to dispute many of your claims whereas you failed to respond to other poster's requests for references / data to back up your claims, specifically around the Fire Code issue.

Now that we can agree to disagree about Plasma vs LCD, I will say that anyone considering purchases like this should consult independent reviews and ultimately decide on what looks best to them. Unfortunately Big Box stores (and there isn't much else left to chose from in many places) make it very difficult to tell what will look best in the actual viewing environment.


----------



## bobukcat

hdtvfan0001 said:


> *You guys* made it pro-plasma...if you read the first post, he said "Let's hope the new Panasonic plasma (starting with the G10) can save Plasma...."
> 
> Pointing out the fact that it likely won't, as well as the impact therein, are logical considerations.
> 
> To knowlingly steer someone towards a large purchase without telling them all the risks/alternatives is simply not the right thing to do.
> 
> You also apparently missed the " " tongue in cheek reference.


The title of this thread includes "Best FP Ever Tested!", I think that qualifies as pro-plasma. Knowingly steering someone towards a large purchase with statements like "you need to go to 140 degrees.." and "makes a nice space heater" is also simply not the right thing to do. If you point out that several manufacturers have left the market recently and the future of this technology is uncertain no one could reasonably take exception to that!


----------



## hdtvfan0001

bobukcat said:


> I actually think I dis-proved your point because the manufacturer in question (Mits) is still making the same basic technology (DLP) as they were yet parts are still unavailable.


Then you actually missed my point altogether...but that's OK.


> At no point did I make it personal...


OK.....I guess describing someone's content as FUD is not insulting then...


> Now that we can agree to disagree about Plasma vs LCD, I will say that anyone considering purchases like this should consult independent reviews and ultimately decide on what looks best to them.


Great advice.


----------



## Steve

hdtvfan0001 said:


> OK.....I guess describing someone's content as FUD is not insulting then...


No need to continue to cry foul. Your comments stand on their own. Let others judge for themselves whether or not Bobukat is simply stating a fact, or you've been insulted.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Steve said:


> No need to continue to cry foul. Your comments stand on their own. Let others judge for themselves whether or not Bobukat is simply stating a fact, or you've been insulted.


As for stating a "fact"...simlpy stating something doesn't make it a fact. 

But then...none of that really matters.

Let's just keep it simple - either folks like plasma or they don't.

The only point that matters is "buyer beware" based on any risks.

If those things don't concern someone....great....enjoy their pruchase by all means. No one contests that "fact" that plasmas have a great image.

It's understanding the risks that have been the key discussion, meant to give people information to consider as not to regret it later. How they digest and consider that iinfo in their purchase is up to the individual.

Perhaps we can all now rest easy and move on to watching great HD on whatever platform floats our boat.


----------



## Steve

hdtvfan0001 said:


> As for stating a "fact"...simlpy stating something doesn't make it a fact.


I agree 100%. Oftentimes, statements like those are termed "BS".

Can you post some corroboration for this "fact"? It may very well be true, but I've been Googling away and can't come up with anything that confirms it:



hdtvfan0001 said:


> There are fire code rules in at least 2 states I know of just specific to Plasmas based on the amount of heat they give off *and risk tied to it*. For example, you cannot locate them in locations that other devices are acceptable.


I know plasmas generate more heat than LCD's, but it's been my understanding that fans in plasmas make the issue moot. I was unable to find any documentation that there are places you can hang LCD's by law, e.g., that you can't hang plasmas.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Steve said:


> I agree 100%. Oftentimes, statements like those are termed "BS".


...so what you're saying is we should go back to square one and start analyzing this all over again...I think not.

There are plenty of quality articles about plasma placement, related heat issues, and county fire code ordinances that impact location. I don't use Google as my search engine, but had no trouble finding numerous articles on these topics.

In my case, the only reason I am familiar with many of those specific issues here in the SouthEast is that I know of a couple good friends who considered plasma and requested me to work with them to research those items. Those things vary significantly from county to county and state to state.

One example here is that placement of a plasma above a fireplace location on a wall requires it to have at least 14" space from the mantle. Concentrated heat from the fireplace with the plasma is the concern. One neighbor who is currently finishing their lower level with a dedicated Home Theater confirmed his contractor knew of that same requirement, and based on seeing his drywall and trim stage project yesterday, it meets that. Personally, I don't care for HDTVs to be mounted that high, but I guess its a matter of taste - there is no right or wrong on that part.

So to conclude the ongoing dialog, it appears we agree the main point here. It is in the best interest of any buyer of any HDTV to do their homework in terms of purchase, placement, and any potential risks associated with that technology (if there are any, which may not always be the case).

Beyond that, lets agree to disagree as to whether or not a plasma is a wise choice and move on. Thanks.


----------



## Steve

hdtvfan0001 said:


> In my case, the only reason I am familiar with many of those specific issues here in the SouthEast is that I know of a couple good friends who considered plasma and requested me to work with them to research those items. [...]
> 
> One example here is that placement of a plasma above a fireplace location on a wall requires it to have at least 14" space from the mantle.[...]


So just plasmas need to be that high, and not LCD's? I'd love to take a look at your town's building codes. Do they have a website?

_*FUD*, an acronym for "Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt", is the faulty use of detail to spread uncertainty about a competing position, product or candidate._

_________​
And for those worried about plasma energy consumption, I took a look at specs for some of the newer plasmas and LCD's. Much to my surprise, and contrary to what I previously posted, at least one of the latest Panasonic plasmas consumes less power than the latest Sony LCD's, e.g.

The 46" model of the Panasonic G10 series plasma (mentioned in the OP) now claims an astounding 100,000 hours before the display reaches 1/2 brightness (that's almost 55 years at 5 hours per day of use!), and consumes *207 watts* of power on average. The 46" Sony Bravia XR6 LCD consumes an average of *285 watts*.


----------



## Lee L

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Congrats - that wasn't the case a year or so ago...
> 
> Exactly my point...not a good situation for *any* platform.
> 
> There you go....you had to cross the line and make it personal and insulting...
> 
> Whoa is me...


I am sorry, but you could easily find 50" plasma under $2000 a year ago. Here is a link that is still at Panasonics site for one of the 2008 model TVs. 1080p, list price of $1,999. Street price was of course less than that. When you throw out blanket statements that are wrong, it dimishies your arguments.

This is why they segregated the forums over at AVS. A few people could not have discussions over facts and post any random stuff they made up. Most of them were 10 times worse than you, but you are posting things that are just not true, not maliciously at all IMO, but you are just not correct on the facts.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Lee L said:


> I am sorry, but you could easily find 50" plasma under $2000 a year ago. Here is a link that is still at Panasonics site for one of the 2008 model TVs. 1080p, list price of $1,999.


Yeah...that $1 sure made a big difference in the statement. 

Did you include the tax? :nono2:

Enough said.


----------



## bobukcat

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Yeah...that $1 sure made a big difference in the statement.
> 
> Did you include the tax? :nono2:
> 
> Enough said.


Nice job of selective quoting, he went on to say that street price was much less than that and the tax rate applies evenly to TVs no matter what technology they use, unless that is different in your county too?


----------



## Lee L

I am not going to argue this anymore. You simply stated that "a year or so ago" there were no 50" plasmas under $2,000. I took literally 30 seconds and found a 1080p version (of course 720 are even less) that was under $2k from a manufacturer that is by no means the low end of the spectrum cost wise. I am sure I could find plenty of 50 inchers for well under $2000 at this time last year or late 2007 if I (1) spent time on it and (2) included lower tier brands.

That is the problem. We are merely bringing up facts and you make things up to try to prove a point. No one on this thread has overtly critical of LCD, just pointing out some differences between it and Plasmas and certainly no one has made up arguments against LCD just to get our jollys. (in fact, several of the people including myself own LCD sets also) On the other hand, you have consitently been an agitator against plasma and have ignored requests for facts to back up your outlandish, unsubstantiated statements that defy logic, instead taking umbrage at those who point this out.

Can't we all just get along?


----------



## pdvbshack

vollmey said:


> Panasonic was building most of Pioneers stuff, and Vizio who flipping cares they pulled the plug. Plasma's are not going away anytime soon. If Panasonic will market these bad boys to the newbies who are afraid of burn in and all the other rumors they have heard about Plasma's, they would do very well. The problem is most folks who buy Plasma's know what the heck they want and what they want it to look like. They are not awed by an LCD turned to max power in the store. And that is not the majority.
> 
> I have "given" away all of my LCD TV's in favor of Plasma, and will never go back. All though I once thought like you did and thought LCD's where the way to go.


I agree completely about getting rid of your LCD's. I have replaced them with Panasonic 800U 50 inch models. LCD's don't look as true to life as the plasma to me.

Shack


----------



## Drew2k

My most recent TV purchase was this January when I acquired the LG 60PG60, a 60" flat-panel plasma set, and I couldn't be happier. I have no concerns about repairs, heat, or burn-in ... I just sit back and enjoy it.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Lee L said:


> Can't we all just get along?


Sure....I've been asking that virtually same question for several pages of posts now.


Drew2k said:


> My most recent TV purchase was this January when I acquired the LG 60PG60, a 60" flat-panel plasma set, and I couldn't be happier. I have no concerns about repairs, heat, or burn-in ... I just sit back and enjoy it.


WOW - that's a big bad boy of viewing size.


----------



## Lee L

Drew2k said:


> My most recent TV purchase was this January when I acquired the LG 60PG60, a 60" flat-panel plasma set, and I couldn't be happier. I have no concerns about repairs, heat, or burn-in ... I just sit back and enjoy it.


That is a good size. I have a 58 inch 2007 Panasonic Plasma as my main TV. I really considered the 65, but it would have been a tighter fit in a lot of ways and my wife, who made me get rid of the old school HD RPTV for the Plasma did not think it would look as good so I gave in. I am about 10-11 feet away and the 58 is fine. Sometimes I can see junk, so it would have probably been even worse with another 7 inches.


----------



## Steve

My brother-in-law put in a Panny 65" 1080p last year that he bought at a PC Richard in Long Island, NY for $4500! What a gorgeous set, even sitting as close as 10'-12'. /steve


----------



## bobukcat

Steve said:


> My brother-in-law put in a Panny 65" 1080p last year that he bought at a PC Richard in Long Island, NY for $4500! What a gorgeous set, even sitting as close as 10'-12'. /steve


He got a great deal on it for $4500! I was torn between that and the 60" Kuro but ended up with the Pioneer because I just couldn't quit looking at it. No buyer's remorse here.


----------



## Steve

bobukcat said:


> He got a great deal on it for $4500! I was torn between that and the 60" Kuro but ended up with the Pioneer because I just couldn't quit looking at it. No buyer's remorse here.


I know. I couldn't believe it when he told me what they were willing to let it go for. Brand new, in the box. Not a demo unit, either. I made him triple-check that! 

The Kuro has a gorgeous picture. Comparable to my Fujitsu, which I paid through the nose for! :lol: That's the problem when you're an early adopter. /steve


----------



## Lee L

Actually, the current Panny 65 can be had for $4000 or maybe a touch less on teh right sale.

Given how much the other models have come down this year so far, I wonder just how cheap it will be when the new 65 comes out this fall.

It is an amazing set no doubt.


----------



## kokishin

_With Pioneer and Vizio dropping out of the business, many are wondering if we've seen the beginning of the end of plasma TV._

http://www.electronichouse.com/article/whats_next_for_plasma_tv

Picture quality based on my eyes: Plasma > LCD > DLP. YMMV.


----------



## Steve

kokishin said:


> _With Pioneer and Vizio dropping out of the business, many are wondering if we've seen the beginning of the end of plasma TV._
> 
> http://www.electronichouse.com/article/whats_next_for_plasma_tv


Excellent article that should put any speculation that plasma is "dead" or "dying" to bed. Here's a quote from it:

_"Taylor notes that LCD sales have outpaced plasma to this point because industry sales figures include small screen sizes--where LCD owns the market--as well as larger sizes. When it comes to the high end, though, LG is all about plasma. "LG positions plasma as the ultimate home theater experience for large-screen viewing with a more film-like quality," says Taylor.

Despite Pioneer's and Vizio's recent moves, LG maintains that the demand for plasma TVs is still growing. This year alone, LG expects to sell 3 million plasma sets, representing a projected 19 percent of the total plasma TV market. LG will focus primarily on 50-inch and larger screen sizes where demand is highest."_



> Picture quality based on my eyes: Plamsa > LCD > DLP. YMMV.


Couldn't agree more. /steve


----------



## Drew2k

Woo hoo! I'm 1 in 3M!


----------



## Mike Bertelson

kokishin said:


> _With Pioneer and Vizio dropping out of the business, many are wondering if we've seen the beginning of the end of plasma TV._
> 
> http://www.electronichouse.com/article/whats_next_for_plasma_tv
> 
> Picture quality based on my eyes: *Plasma > LCD > DLP*. YMMV.


I definitely agree with that but I think you'd only be able to tell the difference if they're side-by-side.

BTW, the TC-P50G10 is being delivered tomorrow. 

I'll let you know what I think.

I'm replacing a 42" 1024x768 plasma with a 50" 1080P...how frakking happy am I. 

Mike


----------



## Steve

MicroBeta said:


> BTW, the TC-P50G10 is being delivered tomorrow.


Sweet... can't wait to hear a first-hand report! /steve


----------



## Mike Bertelson

I haven't seen blacks this deep and any flat panel before.

I watched “Quantum of Solace” in 1080p last night and the picture was perfect.

I haven’t tried my Blu-Ray yet.

The transitions between light and dark are so clear.

I came from a 42” 1024x768 plasma and the difference is night and day.

Here's a pic...

Mike


----------



## Steve

Damn... You're making me wish I needed a new display! :lol: /steve


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Gee...that great plasma picture of HDNet is *almost* as good as my 116" 3-chip DLP projector image. :lol:


----------



## Steve

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Gee...that great plasma picture of HDNet is *almost* as good as my 116" 3-chip DLP projector image. :lol:


I'm sure Mike will invite you over if you want to see what the color "black" looks like! :lol: /steve


----------



## Mike Bertelson

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Gee...that great plasma picture of HDNet is *almost* as good as my 116" 3-chip DLP projector image. :lol:


Isn't the minimum viewing distance about 15'?

I would have to sit in the front yard for that. :eek2:

He's knows what "black" is...when the lights go out. :lol:

Mike


----------



## bobukcat

MicroBeta said:


> I haven't seen blacks this deep and any flat panel before.
> 
> I watched "Quantum of Solace" in 1080p last night and the picture was perfect.
> 
> I haven't tried my Blu-Ray yet.
> 
> The transitions between light and dark are so clear.
> 
> I came from a 42" 1024x768 plasma and the difference is night and day.
> 
> Here's a pic...
> 
> Mike


Beautiful acquisition - thanks for sharing!


----------



## Mike Bertelson

Now that I’ve had the TC-p50G10 for a week I thought I’d give some impressions.

My previous plasma was a 42” 1024x768. I loved the picture. 

Well I have to say that the picture on the Panasonic is what HD is supposed to be.

Even my wife, who really isn’t that into TV, noticed the difference between the old plasma and the new one. She said it was much better then our old one.

I knew it should look better but I didn’t expect it to be so stark a difference.

All the research to find a replacement for my failing plasma paid off. 

I’m a happy camper.

Mike


----------



## TheRatPatrol

MicroBeta said:


> Now that I've had the TC-p50G10 for a week I thought I'd give some impressions.
> 
> My previous plasma was a 42" 1024x768. I loved the picture.
> 
> Well I have to say that the picture on the Panasonic is what HD is supposed to be.
> 
> Even my wife, who really isn't that into TV, noticed the difference between the old plasma and the new one. She said it was much better then our old one.
> 
> I knew it should look better but I didn't expect it to be so stark a difference.
> 
> All the research to find a replacement for my failing plasma paid off.
> 
> I'm a happy camper.
> 
> Mike


What brand was the 42"?


----------



## Jack White

bobukcat said:


> Let's hope the new Panasonice plasma (starting with the G10) can save Plasma until something truly better can replace it. According to HDGuru and others it has better color reproduction, white uniformity and black details than the previous reference Pioneer Elite. Add in the smaller form factor due to reduced bezels and power consumption comparable to similar sized CCFL LCDs and it's truly a remarkable new product:
> 
> http://hdguru.com/panasonic-tcp50g10-50-plasma-review/416/


The new Panasonics especially the V series and the Z series with a 96 hz 24P mode are among the best displays available. That being said, the Pioneer Elites still have no rivals.
The new Panasonics beat the Pioneers in Motion Resolution, viewing in sunny rooms, etc, but the Kuro Elites are still THE BENCHMARK of any consumer level HD Flat Panel Television.
I work at a major consumer electronics store and I get great discounts on Panasonics and once a year we get a HUGE rebate from Panasonic on top of the employee discount if we get the Panasonic. I did decide to get the Pioneer Elite Pro 111-FD Kuro as in my opinion it's one of the top 2 50" or smaller consumer level televisions ever made, the other one is the Pioneer Elite Pro 101-FD Kuro Signature Series. One thing I noticed about the Pioneers compared to the G series and S series Panasonic plasmas, LG Plasmas, Samsung Plasmas, etc, is that the Pioneers have the LEAST green phosphor lag of any Plasma I've tested. It also had the best contrast ratio when viewed in a controlled lighting situation. The blacks on my Kuro Elite are almost as good as my Trinitron CRTs which basically have 0.000 Footlambert Blacks, while the Kuro has 0.001 Footlambert Blacks. I think the Z series and V Series Panasonic Plasmas are the best displays after the Pioneer Elites(they may even be better than the Runco Displays that use last gen Panasonic glass). The Pioneer Elites are better than any display that Bang and Olefsen, Runco, or Fujitsu has ever sold.
I don't think any Plasma and surely no LCD will ever beat the Pioneer Elites. I think Pioneer was so many years ahead of everyone else that by the time they start to catch up, the industry will have shifted to OLED or SED. So it will be either an OLED or an SED that would be the Kuro Elites, not a Plasma, and SURELY DEFINATELY not any LCD.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

theratpatrol said:


> What brand was the 42"?


Magnavox.

It was having a problem with the bottom half of the screen going black. Turns out there is a problem with several circuit boards manufactured by Philips.

The repair cost was high enough to consider buying new...which we did. 

I narrowed it to Pioneer or Panasonic. Since Panasonic currently makes the plasma panels for Pioneer, and with a little research, I choose the G10. 

Mike


----------



## dave29

How is the sound on the G10, I believe that is the THX series?


----------



## Mike Bertelson

dave29 said:


> How is the sound on the G10, I believe that is the THX series?


It is THX Certified but I don't use the speakers on the TV.

All my audio goes through my Yamaha A/V receiver (optical).

However in playing with it in THX mode I find the picture a little dark.

With that said, once I have about ≈100 hours on it I'll try calibrating with Digital Video Essentials-BluRay version and then I'll see how it goes.

I also read the thread about using any receint DVD with THX to calibrate your TV(thanks Nick ). I might try that out and see how it goes. 

Mike


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## Mike Bertelson

After a month of using the TC-P50G10 all I can say is WOW!

Nearly every HDTV I’ve ever seen looks great but this one is on a whole different level.

My wife, who could really care less, notices the difference between this plasma and our old plasma & friends LCDs.

I find the THX mode kind of dark but since I ran the DVE calibration disc (Blu-Ray version) the picture if phenomenal. 

Wow! 

Mike


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## bobukcat

CNet didn't go as far as HDGuru and say it's better than the Pro-111 Kuro but did call it slightly better than the G series. Deciding if it's better performance is worth the extra $$ is, of course, up to the individual buyer. I'm just pleased to see Panny keeping Plasma alive as the best display technology available. :biggthump


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## bobukcat

As suspected the "HD Guru" has rated the V series as the new top of the heap in flat panel HD sets. It's thinner than the G series and has brightness levels on par with that of a high-quality LCD. I only wish the 58" model had been released or I may have been able to talk my buddy into buying this instead of the 58" Sammy he just purchased last week so I could see if first hand! !Devil_lol


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## Lee L

Yeah, they never briong out the 58s until fall I think. Seems like the new models are almost out by the time they hit.


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## NOLANSKI

bobukcat said:


> As suspected the "HD Guru" has rated the V series as the new top of the heap in flat panel HD sets. It's thinner than the G series and has brightness levels on par with that of a high-quality LCD. I only wish the 58" model had been released or I may have been able to talk my buddy into buying this instead of the 58" Sammy he just purchased last week so I could see if first hand! !Devil_lol


Why?
I invite you to see my B860....and your jaw will be ajar.


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## mystic7

My Panny is only 2 1/2 years old but I have it on a good 12 hours a day (I work at home), and the picture is still amazing (even though it's "only" 1080i). I have brightness set to +2, since day one, and if I ever have to increase the brightness to the point where blacks start to look gray, I still have my blackness level to play with.

I put up with Mac vs. PC, Beta vs. VHS, and BluRay vs. HD-DVD. But I draw the line at plasma vs. LCD!!!! Enough already!!!!!


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## NOLANSKI

vollmey said:


> Panasonic was building most of Pioneers stuff, and Vizio who flipping cares they pulled the plug. Plasma's are not going away anytime soon. If Panasonic will market these bad boys to the newbies who are afraid of burn in and all the other rumors they have heard about Plasma's, they would do very well. The problem is most folks who buy Plasma's know what the heck they want and what they want it to look like. They are not awed by an LCD turned to max power in the store. And that is not the majority.
> 
> I have "given" away all of my LCD TV's in favor of Plasma, and will never go back. All though I once thought like you did and thought LCD's where the way to go.


I'm afraid your are dead wrong on the Panasonic building the Pioneers...just isn't true.


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## bobukcat

NOLANSKI said:


> I'm afraid your are dead wrong on the Panasonic building the Pioneers...just isn't true.


They had announced that Pioneer would begin using Panasonic Neo PDP panels in the 10th Gen lineup but then Pioneer killed the whole product line entirely so it never happened. The panels that are in Pioneer plasmas were all made in a Pioneer factory.


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## NOLANSKI

bobukcat said:


> They had announced that Pioneer would begin using Panasonic Neo PDP panels in the 10th Gen lineup but then Pioneer killed the whole product line entirely so it never happened. The panels that are in Pioneer plasmas were all made in a Pioneer factory.


The whole idea that Panny and Pioneer were going to share tech were just rumors....nothing more.


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## Mike Bertelson

NOLANSKI said:


> I'm afraid your are dead wrong on the Panasonic building the Pioneers...just isn't true.





NOLANSKI said:


> The whole idea that Panny and Pioneer were going to share tech were just rumors....nothing more.


Actually, it was much more then rumor. Until Pioneer pulled the plug on plamsa in Feb '09 they had an agreement in place with Matsu****a (darned thing won't let me put in Panasonic's parent company's name ) for providing the PDPs.

http://pioneer.jp/press-e/2008/0424-1.html
http://www.japancorp.net/Article.Asp?Art_ID=17858
http://www.tvsnob.com/archives/018408.php

You're right in that it didn't happen. However, it's not like it was just some article naming some inside source about what might happen. There were press releases from both companies when agreement had been reached. Had Pioneer not taken such a beating in the 4th quarter of '08 and pulled out of plasma altogether, it probably would have gone through.

Oh well. I wonder if any of the technology sharing actually took place. :grin:

Mike


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## bobukcat

MicroBeta said:


> Actually, it was much more then rumor. Until Pioneer pulled the plug on plamsa in Feb '09 they had an agreement in place with Matsu****a (darned thing won't let me put in Panasonic's parent company's name ) for providing the PDPs.
> 
> http://pioneer.jp/press-e/2008/0424-1.html
> http://www.japancorp.net/Article.Asp?Art_ID=17858
> http://www.tvsnob.com/archives/018408.php
> 
> You're right in that it didn't happen. However, it's not like it was just some article naming some inside source about what might happen. There were press releases from both companies when agreement had been reached. Had Pioneer not taken such a beating in the 4th quarter of '08 and pulled out of plasma altogether, it probably would have gone through.
> 
> Oh well. I wonder if any of the technology sharing actually took place. :grin:
> 
> Mike


I think it's a real shame it never happened too, maybe Pioneer could have released some lower end (still relatively high-tier) models with cheaper panels and kept them in the market with their high-end stuff too. The new Pannys are getting awesome reviews though so maybe they did learn some things from the Kuro line!


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## Senator05

Love this form; got me sold on a plasma, Looking at Panasonic 58" S1 or a 58" V10; S1 is 400 bucks less than the V10. Can go with the V10 with THX certificate display or S1 and have Best Buy Calibrated it for $300.
Since both are new sets and not reviewed at that size; would appreciate any input.. Thanks


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## Steve

Senator05 said:


> Love this form; got me sold on a plasma, Looking at Panasonic 58" S1 or a 58" V10; S1 is 400 bucks less than the V10. Can go with the V10 with THX certificate display or S1 and have Best Buy Calibrated it for $300.
> Since both are new sets and not reviewed at that size; would appreciate any input.. Thanks


I'd hold off on committing to any calibration $$$ up front. Either display should be used about 100 hours before calibration. You can try using the THX calibration screens found as "extras" on many DVD's, or buy a Digitial Video Essentials or Avia calibration DVD to set your brightness, contrast and sharpness. Unlike years ago, the factory preset color settings are pretty good these days, and you may be very pleased with the color rendition using one of the "cold, normal, warm" presets without spending the extra $$$, which you can always do later on, if you're still unhappy with the picture.


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## bobukcat

Senator05 said:


> Love this form; got me sold on a plasma, Looking at Panasonic 58" S1 or a 58" V10; S1 is 400 bucks less than the V10. Can go with the V10 with THX certificate display or S1 and have Best Buy Calibrated it for $300.
> Since both are new sets and not reviewed at that size; would appreciate any input.. Thanks


The V series should do away with the 24Hz flicker when watching 1080P/24 BDs and VOD content and have better specs for processing, etc. Both will look awesome but unless you're really tight on budget or not too picky about these things I would spend the extra $400 bucks. I would agree with Steve not to spend the money upfront on the calibration. You can get HD Digital Video Essentials for under $20 from Amazon and it includes color filters to help you calibrate the TV yourself. I would also recommend the owners thread for the set at AVSForums, they usually include post-calibration setting for sets they have done and from what I've seen they often work very well with other sets of the same model. The money to have BB calibrate it would be better spent on the V series upgrade.

Best of luck with your purchase and post back to let us know what you end up getting and your experiences with it!


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## zodiac

Senator05 said:


> Love this form; got me sold on a plasma, Looking at Panasonic 58" S1 or a 58" V10; S1 is 400 bucks less than the V10. Can go with the V10 with THX certificate display or S1 and have Best Buy Calibrated it for $300.
> Since both are new sets and not reviewed at that size; would appreciate any input.. Thanks


I would like some input also as I'm in the same boat looking at the 58"v10!


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