# BIG PROBLEM effects all 622 owners



## jimboy0 (Dec 22, 2006)

Hi, I am new member here but have been around for sometime now. I'm also a 10 year Direct TV customer who is trying to convert to Dish (maybe not after this).

Please someone say this isn't true I really love the HD picture and 622 box, but I have been stopped in my tracks because of this issue.

A 401 screen came up on my TV, I called Dish Network and the HD tech said:


The 622 only allows for 90 TIMERS total and for 290 EVENTS total ( whichever comes first ) before it displays the 401 screen saying that you have used your maximum amount of TIMERS. When this happens you cannot enter anymore TIMERS until you delete one of your existing TIMERS or reduce the number of EVENTS below 290.


Well I was setting up the 622 and entering in my TIMERS. After entering in my 24th TIMER the 401 screen came up and said I had used up all my TIMERS. Well even tho I had'nt reached my max of 90 for TIMERS I had reached the max for EVENTS 290.

So now I have only 24 TIMERS and the box is DONE

Oh and it gets worse!

I did some calculating So by making a TIMER out of just 4 shows that contain 36 events each, I have just used up half of my 290 EVENTS allowed.

In other word the 622 will only hold a maxamum of 8 TIMERS ( season passes) if those timers contain 36 EVENTS each average, like Real world (35) Modern Marvels (40).

And the wosrt part about it is: If you go into edit and change from Record All Programs to Record First Runs, it still uses up the 36 EVENTS even tho it records only 2 first run EVENTS.

If your kids want to set TIMERS for these 4 shows it will eat up half of your alotted EVENT space of 290. Even if you just set it for first runs!!

You can see the number of EVENTS being used by pressing on one of your TIMERS and looking in the bottom right hand corner of the page 

Road Rules 36 events
Modern Marvels 40 events
E True Hollywood Story 30 events
Real World 33 events

I have talked to the top level of Hd tech support supervisor and they seemed very concerned and kept me on the phone for over 2 hours trying to understand what I was saying and to document it .

Can some of the more informed people here shed some light on this problem

I still am connected to Directtv and need to make a decision to stay or go to dish . It's nice having both to compare on the same HD TV.

Thanks Again for your help
Jim


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## shortspark (Oct 25, 2006)

It is going to take me some time to go through that all again but if one can be deleted to make space you never run out, right? Seems to me that would be an awful lot of timers or I'm not understand this correctly.


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## jimboy0 (Dec 22, 2006)

Your not understanding correctly.

Don't feel bad. Most of the highest HD techs and Supervisors at Dish didn't even understand how the TIMERS and EVENTS have effects on each other. Or that their was even a limit on TIMERS let alone EVENTS. 

Jim


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## lakebum431 (Jun 30, 2005)

It is easy to understand and it has been discussed here many times including in the 942 days. I have had both and have never run into this problem. I think it would be pretty rare to run into this. Obviously for you it is a problem. Maybe you need a second box.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

It is a problem, although technically it was a design limitation. I'm not sure where they come up with that number, but usually such limits are the result of amount of memory reserved to keep track of such events. What I'm not sure about, in the case of these DVRs with the big hard drives, is why the limit is so low...

BUT...

Having said all that... The DVR only has a 9-day EPG anyway from which to create timer events... so you'd have to be setting timers for stuff that comes on a LOT of times during that 9 day window (say like 32 times a day) right?

Just what kinds of shows come on that often? And if there truly is something that comes on that often... is it really prudent to be using a DishPass timer to record something like that anyway?


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## rustamust (Feb 22, 2006)

Do you not watch any of these and therefore delete some? Or are you saving them forever?


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## mchaney (Aug 17, 2006)

Sounds to me like some shows are listed/played way too many times to be reasonable! Is there any way you could do some trick like, if you know that the show only does first runs every Wednesday at 9:00pm, just set up a timer for that slot instead of trying to go through all listed. Or... maybe select "weekly" instead of "all episodes". There must be a way you can narrow it down so that it doesn't have to look at so many events. I've never run into this problem so I don't know, but with all the options, it seems like it might be possible to put some sort of "second layer" filter on it so all shows are not considered.

Mike


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

I have 64 timers set at a time and most are New or weekly or Daily or mon - friday. I have never had any problem with the timer limit. I don't use DISH Pass as it will load your receiver up with every show you asked for in the satellite system unless you specify one channel only. I also use the option screen on all my timers and I limit the amount of each show recorded before they are recorded over. This leaves my hard drive clear and it won't clog it up with multiple recordings if I leave for a couple of days.


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## ChuckA (Feb 7, 2006)

Maybe you don't understand the way most people set up timers with Dish DVRs. Why are you using Dishpass timers in the first place instead of name based recordings. I think this is mis-understood by previous TIVO users. The Dishpass timers are normally used when you want to search for programs to record regardless of what channel they are playing on or when they come on. I think most people use the NBR type timers to record specific programs from specific channels. If you set up your timers by displaying the Guide and selecting the program you want to record, it takes up only one timer and one event. Using Dishpass you can wind up with a lot of events for a timer, as you found out, which you may not really want/need to start with.


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## grooves12 (Oct 27, 2005)

ChuckA said:
 

> Maybe you don't understand the way most people set up timers with Dish DVRs. Why are you using Dishpass timers in the first place instead of name based recordings. I think this is mis-understood by previous TIVO users. The Dishpass timers are normally used when you want to search for programs to record regardless of what channel they are playing on or when they come on. I think most people use the NBR type timers to record specific programs from specific channels. If you set up your timers by displaying the Guide and selecting the program you want to record, it takes up only one timer and one event. Using Dishpass you can wind up with a lot of events for a timer, as you found out, which you may not really want/need to start with.


This is not true... if you attempt to record shows such as "The Daily Show" "Colbert Report" etc... it creates an "Event" for every time that how is aired in the next 9 days regardless of your recording settings. Since these air 4-5 times a day that is around 40+ timers for one program...

This is not uncommon for a large number of Cable Channels and Shows. If you do a majority of your recording from Network television or channels that don't show lots of repeats, you will likely never run into the problem. But, if you like shows aired on Comedy Central or MTV to name a few you will run into this issue fairly quickly.

This limitation is a problem... and is something that should be fixed. I don't think simply raising the number is a good fix either... I think it requires a chnage to the way the DVR looks at these things so that there is NO limitation. There are TONS of other DVR's on the market with no such limitations, and they aren't running hardware much if any different than the Dish DVR's, so it is possible, just not very likely.


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## Rovingbar (Jan 25, 2005)

grooves12 said:


> This limitation is a problem... and is something that should be fixed.


Absolutely! There are many ways to work-around this limitation, but it should not be up to us users to find it.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

grooves12 said:


> This is not true... if you attempt to record shows such as "The Daily Show" "Colbert Report" etc... it creates an "Event" for every time that how is aired in the next 9 days regardless of your recording settings. Since these air 4-5 times a day that is around 40+ timers for one program...


I agree that they might have picked a low-limit for the number of timers and events to cover some situations... and I understand the issue you are talking about.

If you select to record all "Colbert Report" on Comedy Central OR if you just select to record New "Colbert Report" you will see the EPG filled with either scheduled timers for all events OR scheduled timers for new events, and skipped timers for the other events... In either case, all 40 events are tagged and tracked by the DVR so even if you only record the new ones, you still use 40 timer events.

This is true, and perhaps a design limitation... BUT, unless you actually mean to record ALL "Colbert Report" episodes... why would you not set a DVR timer to Record new episodes of Colbert Report and select the M-F option? This would just be a few events instead of every single repeat.

IF you want all the repeats too, which I can't figure you would, then 40 timers is what you'd need... but if you really just want the 1 new episode each day, why would you not define your timer that way instead of using the DishPass and wasting timers?

For regular programs, that's how I set my timers... I only use DishPass for things I don't know where/when they are coming on... for stuff I know when it comes on regularly, it is much easier to set a DVR timer from the EPG for just that show.


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## grooves12 (Oct 27, 2005)

HDMe said:


> I agree that they might have picked a low-limit for the number of timers and events to cover some situations... and I understand the issue you are talking about.
> 
> If you select to record all "Colbert Report" on Comedy Central OR if you just select to record New "Colbert Report" you will see the EPG filled with either scheduled timers for all events OR scheduled timers for new events, and skipped timers for the other events... In either case, all 40 events are tagged and tracked by the DVR so even if you only record the new ones, you still use 40 timer events.
> 
> ...


The problem with the M-F option is that it is time/channel based and if you set two programs with higher priority happen to record in the same timeslot, then you will miss the show completely, instead of it then reverting to the later showing, which is one of the main advantages of a smart DVR. And I am NOT talking about using Dishpass at all... I am creating a "New Episodes" Timer, which will catch timeslot changes, and do the best job of prioritizing and catching lated shows if skipped based on priority.

A DVR should be able to handle ALL of your timers to be created this way, as it is the best option, forcing users into hokie workarounds because of shortsightedness by the programming team is unacceptable in my opinion.


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## n0qcu (Mar 23, 2002)

grooves12 said:


> The problem with the M-F option is that it is time/channel based and if you set two programs with higher priority happen to record in the same timeslot, then you will miss the show completely, instead of it then reverting to the later showing, which is one of the main advantages of a smart DVR. And I am NOT talking about using Dishpass at all... I am creating a "New Episodes" Timer, which will catch timeslot changes, and do the best job of prioritizing and catching lated shows if skipped based on priority.


WRONG... M-F,Daily & Weekly timers are ALL name based and will record at another available time if necessary due to a conflict with an earlier time.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Actually their is a link discussing the timer limit in the Tips and useful threads sticky at the top of the forum.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=64185

As far as effecting all. Well it has effected some in the past for sure but in most situations this limitation is not usually an issues.

Would i like to see it addressed. Personally I would like to see it addressed both by increasing the limit and better timer event logic though since I am not intimate with the code and issues surrounding this issue I am not sure if the timer events can be further optimized.

There are ways to optimize and their are links also included in the thread I mentioned if I recall. Does those solve all situations.. Nope. But they may help.

As for other DVRs. Well if I recall I have seen similar limitation threads on the D* side of the fence and as for the cable offerings.. Well I am not familiar with them and last time I looked Disk space seemed to be their sore spot.

Ok... So yes.. the 622 has a limitation and most people hit the Timer Event one first before the timers.. Yes it would be nice to have more room in this area and hopefully one day we will. Does it severely hamper the 622 as a DVR solution, from reading all the threads regarding this issue my general opinion is in most use cases it does not.


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## rickaren (Jan 22, 2003)

It all has to do with shows that are repeated usually in my case. They are counted as events with a line ran through them as a repeat, but still counted as an event. If a program is shown 10 times a day and you watch only New Shows those other 9 go-away too the next day. It will all work out after a few days of using it! Hang in there....

*Yesterday I had 135 "Events" but because of all the repeats I had only THREE Events to be recorded in the whole schedule. Today it was down to 116 and still only 3 events to record in the future guide as shown.*


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

I found the title to be a nit misleading "BIG PROBLEM effects all 622 owners"

I've never seen this, I just looked and My 622 has 65 events showing in Schedule and 58 in My Recordings. I'm giving a harder than usual workout with regards to timers due to the holiday season.

IMHO the title to this thread shoudl have been "A Problem that could effect 622 users"

I think there must be something you are doing as a Prior Tivo user. The 622 does require you to understand the way it works and it will reward you with a good picture, and reliable operation. The 622 works way faster and smoother than my old Tivo ever did.


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

This has nothing to do with how many recorded shows are sitting on the HDD. People are understanding how the 622 works (posts 1, 5, 10, 11, 13, 14, 15 and 16). The only user error I see here is recording Road Rules :lol: .


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