# E. hd line up doesnt cut it



## krazy k

I dont know why E. cant do hd right like D.
they have a ton of hd channels that no one watches,
I am thinking of switching to D. from E. 
i have been with E. for over 11 years,
and am tried of paying for hd channels that i dont watch,
D added hd channels that people want to watch,
like 
Sci Hd,
Usa Hd,
Cnn hd,
Tbs Hd,
and what do we get
Crap that we dont watch.............
why cant we get more hd movie channels,
( not ppv movie channels)
which they are just a money Grab.

And when they do add the hd channels we want 
there will be a fee increase.,
i am sick of this .,,,,,
Direct here i come.
krazy


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## Taco Lover

See ya.


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## braven

Come on in, the water's warm.


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## noneroy

Come to the dark side...

With install times being what they are, you should switch now and get SciFi in HD for the BSG movie (and the new season).

Sure, Charlie *MAY* give you those channels some day....but why wait....D* is just getting warmed up!


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## He Save Dave

I'm so close to switching now. If I don't hear anything from Dish soon I'm outtie.


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## He Save Dave

noneroy said:


> Come to the dark side...
> 
> With install times being what they are, you should switch now and get SciFi in HD for the BSG movie (and the new season).
> 
> Sure, Charlie *MAY* give you those channels some day....but why wait....D* is just getting warmed up!


Nice avatar!!! GO BLUE!


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## Stewart Vernon

Bye!

DirecTV took several years to catch up to Dish, and you want Dish to do it overnight?

Also, both Dish and DirecTV have added HD channels lately that carry very little HD on them, so no big loss in my mind to not carry from day 1 if the channel isn't going to have a lot of HD on it anyway!


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## GrayCalx

You know, it is frustrating to see HD channels that I really want available to D* subscribers and not e*... yet. But, you know E* will get them... eventually. And the deciding factor for me? Nothing beats the 622 (or 722). Central storage for my recorded shows accessed via both tv sets. Brilliant. I just don't see how D*'s could be any better...

So carry on with the mass exodus. Hopefully you leaving will let Dish know they should get those channels for me. And I still get my FilmF in HD. w00t. Win win!


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## Marriner

I am just old enough to remember going to the "Record Store", Full of LP's when a single rack of this new thing called a compact disk was placed in the store. That same "Record Store" i used to go to is now boarded up, mostly due to a thing called MP3 that people can purchase one at a time if they like whilst wearing their PJ's. What is this old man raving about?

In 2 years the SD channels on your TV screen will be as easy to find as LP's are today. In fact we may not even be getting them via DBS or Cable. They will probably be downloaded over our broadband connections, in Hi-Def, on demand... You get the idea. Sit back and watch Echostar and DirecTV compete their butts off while you and I reap the benefits of this competition.

America. What a country.


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## krazy k

And where is the nhl games in hd tonight,
NO leafs or Habs in HD...............
and i am paying 149 for what?


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## DBS Commando

He has a point - I'd trade the VOOM channels for what D* currently has anyday. The VOOM channels just seem to be fillers so that E* can say that it has America's largest HD lineup.


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## krazy k

DBS Commando said:


> He has a point - I'd trade the VOOM channels for what D* currently has anyday. The VOOM channels just seem to be fillers so that E* can say that it has America's largest HD lineup.


Amen my Brother ,,,,,
Amen


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## kckucera

Please folks,
Who needs strech-o-vision and HD channels with no HD content. I am a great fan of SciFi and USA but want real HD content. Although I only watch a couple of the Voom channels I do like those I watch. I am willing to give E* the benefit of the doubt for the time being.


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## He Save Dave

DBS Commando said:


> He has a point - I'd trade the VOOM channels for what D* currently has anyday. The VOOM channels just seem to be fillers so that E* can say that it has America's largest HD lineup.


Yes! I skip right past all the Voom channels. I never ever watch them.


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## GeorgeLV

kckucera said:


> Please folks,
> Who needs strech-o-vision and HD channels with no HD content. I am a great fan of SciFi and USA but want real HD content. Although I only watch a couple of the Voom channels I do like those I watch. I am willing to give E* the benefit of the doubt for the time being.


There's already been real HD content on USA. If the guide holds true, a majority of their programming such as NBC repeats, Law & Order CI/SVU, House, Monk, and many movies of the week will be in HD.


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## davethestalker

I'm a gamer, so I appreciate GamePlay HD. However, the reruns are getting REALLY FRACKING OLD. G4 caters to stoned alcoholic porn mongers. They have way too much to be considered a valid source for gaming news and other information.

I miss TechTV. G4 was a blip on the map when TechTV was alive.


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## He Save Dave

GeorgeLV said:


> There's already been real HD content on USA. If the guide holds true, a majority of their programming such as NBC repeats, Law & Order CI/SVU, House, Monk, and many movies of the week will be in HD.


Aww man I want USAHD!!!


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## DBS Commando

GeorgeLV said:


> There's already been real HD content on USA. If the guide holds true, a majority of their programming such as NBC repeats, Law & Order CI/SVU, House, Monk, and many movies of the week will be in HD.


Not to mention that SciFi will most likely be airing shows such as BSG, Stargate, and Eureka in HD. I'd take SciFi in HD just for those shows.



davethestalker said:


> I'm a gamer, so I appreciate GamePlay HD. However, the reruns are getting REALLY FRACKING OLD. G4 caters to stoned alcoholic porn mongers. They have way too much to be considered a valid source for gaming news and other information.
> 
> I miss TechTV. G4 was a blip on the map when TechTV was alive.


If you watch every show on Gameplay for a month, then you're basically set for their entire base of programming for the entire year.

Don't even get me started on G4.


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## He Save Dave

DBS Commando said:


> Not to mention that SciFi will most likely be airing shows such as BSG, Stargate, and Eureka in HD. I'd take SciFi in HD just for those shows.
> 
> If you watch every show on Gameplay for a month, then you're basically set for their entire base of programming for the entire year.
> 
> Don't even get me started on G4.


Both of those channels are a waste.


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## ssmith10pn

> Yes! I skip right past all the Voom channels. I never ever watch them.


Except maybe RAVE when it isn't a rerun.


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## Richard King

DBS Commando said:


> He has a point - I'd trade the VOOM channels for what D* currently has anyday. The VOOM channels just seem to be fillers so that E* can say that it has America's largest HD lineup.


To each his own... Rave is my favorite HD channel. If Voom went to D I would probably make the swap, but NOT for any of the stuff that they recently added. The same "stuff" is just as watchable in SD for me.


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## Lincoln6Echo

Wind_River said:


> I'm not ready to jump ship from E* yet (I've still got 10 months on my committment anyway)......but I did just get notice from HDTV Magazine that Cox Cable has started adding some of the HD channels that D* has.
> 
> Could this mean that E* drops to third behind D* and Cable? A scary thought. I'm sure that 99% of subscribers have no idea that they don't have channels.....(in the same way that most subscribers don't seem to care about the distorted picture of stretch-o-vision).....but it would be nice to hear SOMETHING from E* to give us some hope of things to come to (at least) move into SECOND PLACE.
> 
> It would be great if E* could give us something to celebrate besides boring NHL Hockey and Big Ten stuff (glad that you hockey and BT lovers have it, however).


Man, what's with you and you're constant bashing of the Big Ten [Network]?

Yes, we get it...you don't like spectator sports....but for the 99.9999% of the rest of us...we do.


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## Stewart Vernon

If a channel had all HD on and had better programming than Voom, I'd be right in line asking for a "trade up"... but Voom is 24/7 HD, even if repeats... Not too many channels can say that. Some channels go to infomercials overnight! Other channels have stretched or zoomed stuff.

On a related note. IF USAHD, SCIFIHD, and BRAVOHD all launch and have at least HD simulcast of the stuff available in HD... I wonder what will become of UniversalHD. I would like to see that channel become 24/7 movies from the Universal library OR it could fade away and we have bandwidth to replace it with something new.


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## SingleAction

Marriner said:


> I am just old enough to remember going to the "Record Store", Full of LP's when a single rack of this new thing called a compact disk was placed in the store. That same "Record Store" i used to go to is now boarded up, mostly due to a thing called MP3 that people can purchase one at a time if they like whilst wearing their PJ's. What is this old man raving about?
> 
> In 2 years the SD channels on your TV screen will be as easy to find as LP's are today. In fact we may not even be getting them via DBS or Cable. They will probably be downloaded over our broadband connections, in Hi-Def, on demand... You get the idea. Sit back and watch Echostar and DirecTV compete their butts off while you and I reap the benefits of this competition.
> 
> America. What a country.


AMEN!


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## ibooksrule

I seriosuly doubt that 99.99 % watch sports. There are alot who do but they watch niche sports such as tennis or volleyball. Then of course all the people who watch football and basketball. But there are quite a but more who dont watch sports and watch shows such as CSI, law and order and others.

Hey each his own but i have to say im tired of paying $20 a month to get HD so i can have my locals in HD and i dont even care about the voom channels.


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## Stewart Vernon

ibooksrule said:


> Hey each his own but i have to say im tired of paying $20 a month to get HD so i can have my locals in HD and i dont even care about the voom channels.


I understand your other issues... but what you said here isn't factual. You do not have to pay $20 to get your HD locals.

All you have to do is pay for your locals and pay the $6 enabling fee on a ViP series receiver and you will get your HD locals if that is all you really want.


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## ibooksrule

HDMe said:


> I understand your other issues... but what you said here isn't factual. You do not have to pay $20 to get your HD locals.
> 
> All you have to do is pay for your locals and pay the $6 enabling fee on a ViP series receiver and you will get your HD locals if that is all you really want.


Oh well nice to know that. I am calling dish tomorrow. They told me that the HD locals only come as part of the HD package. Now i do watch HGTV in Hd some and once in a while some voom or HDNEt but during the regular season i have so many shows i watch i cant watch them all in one night. I spend a good deal of saturday catching up on shows i didnt get time to watch during the week. But what i record is all HD locals and OTA HD locals. So i have no need for the other Hd channels right now.

Thanks for letting me know i can save $20 a month


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## Stewart Vernon

Not a problem... if you really do most of your HD watching on your HD locals, it makes sense to save the $14 (difference in $20 minus the $6 enabling fee) and just pay for the locals.


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## JohnL

krazy k said:


> I dont know why E. cant do hd right like D.
> they have a ton of hd channels that no one watches,
> I am thinking of switching to D. from E.
> i have been with E. for over 11 years,
> and am tried of paying for hd channels that i dont watch,
> D added hd channels that people want to watch,
> like
> Sci Hd,
> Usa Hd,
> Cnn hd,
> Tbs Hd,
> and what do we get
> Crap that we dont watch.............
> why cant we get more hd movie channels,
> ( not ppv movie channels)
> which they are just a money Grab.
> 
> And when they do add the hd channels we want
> there will be a fee increase.,
> i am sick of this .,,,,,
> Direct here i come.
> krazy


Krazy,

DirecTV can label all those channels as HD if it wants, but a PIG is still a PIG.

DirecTV's Scifi HD has NO HD at all, USA HD has NO HD at all, CNN HD has 2-3 hours per day of HD (Which is 12 percent of its broadcast day), TBS HD has Baseball in HD and maybe ONE OTHER hour of content in HD per day.

In the end, WHY BOTHER, 4 HD channels with a total of about 7 hours of HD programing out of a possible 192 hours of HD from those 4 channels equals about 3 percent of their collective broadcast day. Wow, now that is some pretty compelling content.

John


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## Mike D-CO5

All you people who have salivated about the new hd channels available at Directv are nothing but a bunch of HD WHORES! How can you turn against DISH just because they don't have mainstream channels like Sci-FI, TBS, USA .... Okay , okay, I get it now.

But remember that this is just the begining of the HD wars. Directv may indeed have more national channels that you would watch for now, some in upconverted sd , some in hd , but maybe next week or next month DISH will have more . THe point is if you can't switch everytime you see a channel added at the competition or you will go broke. OF course if you had money for both services you would be able to have the best of both. I have both services but only for the one channel at Directv that my wife wants to watch" Passions." I end up paying about $20.00 a month for it. I can't afford to add both for hd. Not unless I come into some $$$. I have already invested more than enough money in DISH and I can't see doing the same for Directv. But if DISH keeps sitting on the sidelines for more than a month or two, I will have to reconsider and sell my receivers on E-bay and recoup my Money so I can afford the switch to DIRECTV. 

Oh and I agree that the Voom channels are nothing but hd filler. But I wanted them 2 years ago when they added them. If I knew that they were not going to add anything new on them for the last two years, except new shows on RAVE, I wouldn't of bothered adding them. They are certainly not worth the extra $10.00 we pay now, as part of the $20.00 hd pack. I would like to see the Voom channels reconsolidated so that they share bandwith like VS/golf channels does today. THen you could have say World fim in the day time and Film fest at night or World/FILM. THen instead of watching the same show 3 or 4 times a day and night you would consolidate and share the reruns . We could then get more hd channels we want added in the space that used to hold the 15 VOOM channels. WE might end up with 7 or 8 voom channels with a 24 hour Monsters hd and a 24 hour RAVE channel and the rest could share bandwith or go away.


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## hilmar2k

JohnL said:


> Krazy,
> 
> DirecTV can label all those channels as HD if it wants, but a PIG is still a PIG.
> 
> DirecTV's Scifi HD has NO HD at all, USA HD has NO HD at all........


Simply not true. I will agree that the networks have a ways to go to sure up their HD programming lineup, but what currently exists is plenty to warrant the existance of the channel. Adding USA was huge. I don't watch SciFi much, so that was less important to me.

TBS has been amazing for the playoffs thus far, but it will be interesting to see how much HD programming they have post baseball. So far so good, however.

And by the way, the PIG looks pretty amazing in HD.


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## bhenge

JohnL said:


> In the end, WHY BOTHER, 4 HD channels with a total of about 7 hours of HD programing out of a possible 192 hours of HD from those 4 channels equals about 3 percent of their collective broadcast day. Wow, now that is some pretty compelling content.
> 
> John


Hey, its NOT about HD content anymore... it is a numbers game with the suppliers... who can stake claim to the most HD Channels out there for their ad campaigns. This is a good thing though... with D* finally rolling out channels the pressure to expand the number of HD channels is greater... face it, the channel has to be HD before even limited HD content can be seen. Content will catch up over time, but we need the HD channels first so the programmers can justify the expense of creating HD content.

Bill


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## satex

bhenge said:


> Hey, its NOT about HD content anymore... it is a numbers game with the suppliers... who can stake claim to the most HD Channels out there for their ad campaigns. This is a good thing though... with D* finally rolling out channels the pressure to expand the number of HD channels is greater... face it, the channel has to be HD before even limited HD content can be seen. Content will catch up over time, but we need the HD channels first so the programmers can justify the expense of creating HD content.
> 
> Bill


Well said


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## MikeR

l8er said:


> SciFi HD is currently upconverted and _PQ is reportedly much better than its SD counterpart._


So much so that it makes it painful to the eyes to watch the SD version.


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## richiephx

Everyone focuses on pseudo-HD channels and I keep reading...well, the upconverted SD on these channels still looks better than it's SD counterpart. Well, SD isn't going away in the near future and the majority of subscribers on both DBS providers don't have HD. Why doesn't D*or E* improve picture quality on the SD channels?. The non-hd picture quality you are seeing on many of the new HD channels is what SD should look like now. You are just paying extra for it now because they call it HD when it's not.


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## rbonzer

richiephx said:


> Everyone focuses on pseudo-HD channels and I keep reading...well, the upconverted SD on these channels still looks better than it's SD counterpart. Well, SD isn't going away in the near future and the majority of subscribers on both DBS providers don't have HD. Why doesn't D*or E* improve picture quality on the SD channels?. The non-hd picture quality you are seeing on many of the new HD channels is what SD should look like now. You are just paying extra for it now because they call it HD when it's not.


Well said. Give us better SD USA quality (and other channels) until the HD version is added.


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## hilmar2k

richiephx said:


> Everyone focuses on pseudo-HD channels and I keep reading...well, the upconverted SD on these channels still looks better than it's SD counterpart. Well, SD isn't going away in the near future and the majority of subscribers on both DBS providers don't have HD. Why doesn't D*or E* improve picture quality on the SD channels?. The non-hd picture quality you are seeing on many of the new HD channels is what SD should look like now. You are just paying extra for it now because they call it HD when it's not.


You can't match the quality of upconverted SD on a non-HD channel. There is simply not enough data in an SD image to match what upconverted SD can look like on an HD channel. Some of the upconverted SD stuff looks nearly identical to HD. And the bottom line is I don't care what it is or how they got there, if it looks like HD then it is HD. After all, it only matters what it looks like to you.


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## gjh3260

krazy k said:


> And where is the nhl games in hd tonight,
> NO leafs or Habs in HD...............
> and i am paying 149 for what?


4 games in HD tonight


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## JohnL

hilmar2k said:


> You can't match the quality of upconverted SD on a non-HD channel. There is simply not enough data in an SD image to match what upconverted SD can look like on an HD channel. Some of the upconverted SD stuff looks nearly identical to HD. And the bottom line is I don't care what it is or how they got there, if it looks like HD then it is HD. After all, it only matters what it looks like to you.


hilmar2k,

It is definitely NOT HD unless it is at least 1280x720. If you want to call it something besides SD then call it ED (Enhanced Definition).

If you like the PQ then great but it would be nice if you stopped calling something it is not. Be careful what you wish for, if enough people say that pseudo-HD is great then the providers and MSO's might be persuaded to give up on 1280x720 or 1920x1080 or even the HD lite 1440x1080, which By the way blows away any SD upconvert away, unless you are watching TV on a display smaller than 42 inches.

John


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## Wrister17

gjh3260 said:


> 4 games in HD tonight


I dont think the Canadian feeds will be coming thru in HD right now...maybe later is the season, but I dont think a HD agreement was reached with TSN/CBC/RogerSports Net to carry HD games on CI. The only HD games right now will be on NBC/VS and the FSNs. Later


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## rlu929s

I have to agree that all the VOOM channels are just worthless junk. That's the main reason I ended my HD package. There was never anything on that I wanted to watch.

I'll be back though when they get USAHD running on E*.

I'm fine as long as they get it added by next summer before Dead Zone and The 4400 start back up again.


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## hilmar2k

JohnL said:


> hilmar2k,
> 
> It is definitely NOT HD unless it is at least 1280x720. If you want to call it something besides SD then call it ED (Enhanced Definition).
> 
> If you like the PQ then great but it would be nice if you stopped calling something it is not. Be careful what you wish for, if enough people say that pseudo-HD is great then the providers and MSO's might be persuaded to give up on 1280x720 or 1920x1080 or even the HD lite 1440x1080, which By the way blows away any SD upconvert away, unless you are watching TV on a display smaller than 42 inches.
> 
> John


My point was only to say that upconverted SD is light years better than SD. In fact there is a much larger gap in quality between SD and upconverted SD then there is between upconverted SD and HD.

And by the way, all of the upconverted SD is broadcast in either 1280x720 or 1920(or 1440)x1080. It is upconverted to an HD resolution and then broadcast. So technically it is HD, at least once it gets to us (or me, if you don't have D*).


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## grooves12

hilmar2k said:


> You can't match the quality of upconverted SD on a non-HD channel. There is simply not enough data in an SD image to match what upconverted SD can look like on an HD channel. Some of the upconverted SD stuff looks nearly identical to HD. And the bottom line is I don't care what it is or how they got there, if it looks like HD then it is HD. After all, it only matters what it looks like to you.


The SD is not truly "upconverted".. it is just not overcompressed. We have become so used to compression artifacts on the SD channels that we think this "upconversion" is something magical. It is not. It is merely the way SD is supposed to look without rediculous bandwidth constraints the DBS comanies have placed on the channels to squeeze more channels into their limited space.

If you don't beleive me... watch an OTA SD program. It looks nearly as good as most the "HD" content we have been getting.

Another example... watch a DVD on a quality player. In most cases the picture quality is BETTER than the "HD" channels we receive. How is that it is even comparable with less than 1/4 the resolution? People have been compaining about HD-lite and downrezzing of the channels. Well, the real problem is limited bandwidth and compression that result in artifacts. Our eyes will better notice macroblocking and motion artifacts (which effectively limit resolution even more) than we will the actual difference in resolution.


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## krazy k

Wrister17 said:


> I dont think the Canadian feeds will be coming thru in HD right now...maybe later is the season, but I dont think a HD agreement was reached with TSN/CBC/RogerSports Net to carry HD games on CI. The only HD games right now will be on NBC/VS and the FSNs. Later


well if thats true then that Sucks,
The only reason i subscribed to NHL CI on dish was because of the external 750 hd.
Now no tsn,cbc,sn games in hd that just stupid,
we got like 12 nhl hd channels 
also
where is the nhl network hd channel?


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## krazy k

Also just a thought,
can we sub to a west network feed aswell as get our regular detroit networks?
it sure would be nice to be able to time shift.
ie,
hockey game A on at 8pm
hockey game B on at 8pm
and ugly betty on at 8pm

it sure would be nice to get the west coast feed of ugly betty at 11pm.


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## James Long

NHL Center Ice HD is on channels 543 through 558.

Local channel feeds from outside of your local market are not available on E*.
Local channel feeds from outside of your local market are not available on D* unless:
1) Your own market locals are not available; and
2) You live far enough away from all stations of the network you wish to receive or have waivers from all stations that you are too close to.

Being that you have locals from your own market, you cannot get them via either carrier from another market.


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## allargon

l8er said:


> SciFi HD is currently upconverted and PQ is reportedly much better than its SD counterpart (so still a big improvement over E*'s SD only offering) and USA HD *IS* showing some HD content. So I believe if E* doesn't deliver soon on some of these same "basic" channels, there will be some defection of subs from E* to D*, if D* continues to have the content they want while E* does not. Yes, it's only been a matter of days for D*'s HD content - but now for many people E* appears to be falling behind.


E*'s website recently said they were going to carry USA and Bravo HD. The missing major's are CNN, TBS and SciFi. USA, TNT and TBS are the most watched SD cable channels. I never watched any of the 3 when I was SD CRT. However, I did watch a good bit of SciFi. I would love to get Smithsonian. However, I know that's a low priority.

If E* can add six more channels, the question is what will be the remaining four? I don't know. I do know that D* has more HD channels than E* now. Competition is great. When is E*'s next (delayed) satellite launch scheduled?


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## jgurley

allargon said:


> E*'s website recently said they were going to carry USA and Bravo HD.


I would love to see that link. Not that I doubt you in any way, but whenever I try to find that sort of info on the Dish site I can't.


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## natem50

ibooksrule said:


> I seriosuly doubt that 99.99 % watch sports. There are alot who do but they watch niche sports such as tennis or volleyball. Then of course all the people who watch football and basketball. But there are quite a but more who dont watch sports and watch shows such as CSI, law and order and others.
> 
> Hey each his own but i have to say im tired of paying $20 a month to get HD so i can have my locals in HD and i dont even care about the voom channels.


At least you get your locals in HD. The Indy market was uplinked and then dropped for some reason that E* doesn't want to explain. Of course, they told me that this market had the locals in HD when I signed up........


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## krazy k

what happened to the colorodo game last night,
set up a timer to tape it in hd,
and then
was a dish net logo.
??????????????
i want to give charlie the benifit of the doubt but i am not impressed.


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## BrianG

I pay over $100 for my E* service. This includes all of the movie channels. I want all my movie channels in HD. If E* doesn't keep up with D* in this area, I'm jumping ship. 

It's all about competition and keeping up. It's not good enough for E* to be ahead in HD once. They have to maintain that position. If they can't then people will leave, or never select them in the first place. I will go to the top provider of the HD content that I like to watch, and I will pay more if necessary.

Also, to the other point going around the "who's better" debate. I'd rather have Sci-Fi HD with standard definition programming than Sci-Fi SD.


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## Richard King

Rather than come here and complain about Dish and state that you are "jumping ship", just DO it. Complaining here will do nothing to get more channels.


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## jrb531

You have to understand that some people have the opinion...

"Anything I bought rules, anything I did not sucks"

LOL

Few people are truely neutral.

The startup costs for D* is alot more than E* and the 622/722's are far far better than anything that D* or cable has but when it comes to "total" programming costs they are both now about equal. E* nickels and dimes you a bit more than D* does but E* is a bit cheaper for SD programming.

For HD programming D* is cheaper. Now when you point this out the "fanboys" will say that it's only temporary and that D* will raise prices soon but funny how these same "fanboys" responded to the "D* will have more HD soon with the statement that it only counts when it's turned on.

Sounds like a bit of doubletalk here. The then "upcoming" HD from D* does not count but "potential" D* price increased should count because D* currently has cheaper HD than E*????

What is keeping me with Dish now is the 622 and the high cost to switch to D*. It's no secret that I "HATE" Dish's nickel and dime fees... esp the DVR fee and the $40 to turn on the USB backup port.

I have no loyalty to Dish. Long ago I once did and I steared many many many new people to Dish. Now I neither love or hate Dish. They are a company out to make as much money as possible and will only spend when they have to. No different than any other company but if and when a better deal comes up I will move on.

Call me naive but at one time I was a staunch supporter of Dish. I really thought they carred about being fair and representing the little guy.

Well I'm sure you are all laughing at me now... go ahead I deserve it LOL

-JB


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## Sat4me

jrb531: No laughing here. I couldn't agree more. At one time, Dish seemed to really care about its subscribers. I no longer get that feeling. I was totally loyal to Dish and also convinced several people to go with Dish. Even now, I don't want to jump ship, but mostly because they definitely have better equipment. I certainly am not loyal because of their attitutde or their business practices.

One of the people I talked into going with Dish many years ago was my next door neighbor who just jumped to D*. I asked him why he changed and he said he decided to go HD and since he was doing that, he decided to switch to D* at the same time because he was tired of the nickel and dime stuff from Dish, thinks the $20 HD access fee is too much and also believes that D* is making a stronger play into HD. I understand his changing even though I'm not ready to do that and I hope I never need to do that. Its really up to Dish rather than anything I can do. I think $20 per month for the HD being provided by Dish is way overpriced but I will wait awhile to hear plans from Dish and see what they do to provide $20 worth of HD but I won't wait forever.


----------



## MarcusInMD

Geeze, what a bunch of whining little babies.


----------



## James Long

Is D*'s HD cheaper than E*? Perhaps the way they bill their "HD Access Fee" it appears that way, but D* charges more for their SD channels in the first place.

D* Premier for $99.99 currently includes their sports pack. That delivers 188 SD video channels (29 of them RSNs with blackouts). The $9.99 HD Access Fee adds 37 HD video channels (plus 5 RSNs with blackouts). IMHO Premier is under priced ... D* decided last year to raise prices on lower tier subscribers forcing everyone except Premier subs to a higher price.

E* AEP w/locals is $94.99 ... that delivers 188 SD video channels before adding their sports pack. With blacked out sports an E* customer pays $100.98 for 217 SD video channels. 99c more for 29 more channels? E*'s "DishHD" raises that price to $120.98 for a total of 217 SD video (including 29 SD RSNs), 39 HD video (plus 22 HD RSNs). $11 more is practically a wash.

Both companies could realign their prices so one pays for what they get instead of D* overcharging their lower tier subscribers. But it would be lousy marketing. Right now customers EXPECT to pay a certain price for TV ... even the low end packages. As long as D* can get customers to sign up with a $49.99 minimum commitment for Choice (or $29.99 for Family with reduced channels) they will do it. Then for just $5 more sell 33 channels to upgrade to Choice Xtra. Decent marketing strategy!

It is all about the marketing ...


----------



## jrb531

James Long said:


> Is D*'s HD cheaper than E*? Perhaps the way they bill their "HD Access Fee" it appears that way, but D* charges more for their SD channels in the first place.
> 
> D* Premier for $99.99 currently includes their sports pack. That delivers 188 SD video channels (29 of them RSNs with blackouts). The $9.99 HD Access Fee adds 37 HD video channels (plus 5 RSNs with blackouts). IMHO Premier is under priced ... D* decided last year to raise prices on lower tier subscribers forcing everyone except Premier subs to a higher price.
> 
> E* AEP w/locals is $94.99 ... that delivers 188 SD video channels before adding their sports pack. With blacked out sports an E* customer pays $100.98 for 217 SD video channels. 99c more for 29 more channels? E*'s "DishHD" raises that price to $120.98 for a total of 217 SD video (including 29 SD RSNs), 39 HD video (plus 22 HD RSNs). $11 more is practically a wash.
> 
> Both companies could realign their prices so one pays for what they get instead of D* overcharging their lower tier subscribers. But it would be lousy marketing. Right now customers EXPECT to pay a certain price for TV ... even the low end packages. As long as D* can get customers to sign up with a $49.99 minimum commitment for Choice (or $29.99 for Family with reduced channels) they will do it. Then for just $5 more sell 33 channels to upgrade to Choice Xtra. Decent marketing strategy!
> 
> It is all about the marketing ...


Ahhhh we're back to counting channels 

I'll not even start but you know what I'm thinking 

-JB


----------



## James Long

Ok, we can just throw out prices without saying how many channels one gets for the price.

D* costs $109.98 per month for a single receiver serving one TV.
E* costs $29.99 per month for a single receiver serving two TVs.

Now are you happy? Without the count the price is irrelevant!


----------



## jrb531

James Long said:


> Ok, we can just throw out prices without saying how many channels one gets for the price.
> 
> D* costs $109.98 per month for a single receiver serving one TV.
> E* costs $29.99 per month for a single receiver serving two TVs.
> 
> Now are you happy? Without the count the price is irrelevant!


LOL much happier 

Now I can pay Dish $29.99 + 2.99 ala cart for Veria TV Natural Wellness Channel

This is all the TV I'll ever need :lol:

ROTFL

-JB


----------



## ShawnL25

Here's what it looks like today.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=103235


----------



## TBoneit

Lincoln6Echo said:


> Man, what's with you and you're constant bashing of the Big Ten [Network]?
> 
> Yes, we get it...you don't like spectator sports....but for the 99.9999% of the rest of us...we do.


Oh spectator sports. Just some of the channels I locked out with the adult channel lock.

Sorry, Just couldn't resist.

Seriously however:

E* has been ahead for what 2 years and D* HD subs living on promises. Now D* has some channels and people can't wait a little while before jumping ship?

Jump back and forth every few months if you want as the balance changes. When you have to live with the HR20 instead of the VIP622/722 tell us how much better and reliable the HR20 is.

I'm bet money, and I don't gamble, that Charlie is planning on adding more HD in the near future. Didn't he just get some more transponders on 61.5? Maybe that is all that is needed. Keep in mind that the HD come from more than one location so whichever one has less capacity it all that can used on all locations.


----------



## krazy k

krazy k said:


> what happened to the colorodo game last night,
> set up a timer to tape it in hd,
> and then
> was a dish net logo.
> ??????????????
> i want to give charlie the benifit of the doubt but i am not impressed.


Again ,,,,,,,,, what happened to the colorodo hockey game last Night????????


----------



## James Long

Email E* and ask them. We certainly didn't mess up your timers.


----------



## krazy k

James Long said:


> Email E* and ask them. We certainly didn't mess up your timers.


Nice


----------



## nataraj

krazy k said:


> am tried of paying for hd channels that i dont watch,





jrb531 said:


> "Anything I bought rules, anything I did not sucks"


Thats exactly the reason we need a la carte.


----------



## jrb531

nataraj said:


> Thats exactly the reason we need a la carte.


LOL

I'm not allowed to bring up Ala-cart here otherwise I will be run out of town on a rail 

Ala-cart is like kryptonite to some people on this board :lol:

-JB


----------



## nataraj

Wind_River said:


> Personally, I think you'll end up paying MORE for fewer channels....


I've to question the truthiness of this repeated assertion - with not an iota of reason or logic to support it.

In any case, people like me who want just a handful of channels won't have to subsidize rich couch potatos 

BTW, I just subscribed to Zee Sports for $19.99 a month. I don't expect that cost to be spread out among so many people who don't want it - so that I can get it cheap.


----------



## msmith198025

JohnL said:


> Krazy,
> 
> DirecTV can label all those channels as HD if it wants, but a PIG is still a PIG.
> 
> DirecTV's Scifi HD has NO HD at all, USA HD has NO HD at all, CNN HD has 2-3 hours per day of HD (Which is 12 percent of its broadcast day), TBS HD has Baseball in HD and maybe ONE OTHER hour of content in HD per day.
> 
> In the end, WHY BOTHER, 4 HD channels with a total of about 7 hours of HD programing out of a possible 192 hours of HD from those 4 channels equals about 3 percent of their collective broadcast day. Wow, now that is some pretty compelling content.
> 
> John


What have u seen to make those claims?
I KNOW i have watched HD on USAhd(its on there every day) and quite a bit on CNNhd also.
SCI-fi, im not sure, but from what is being said all of the PRIMETIME shows will be in HD too.
Id do some research before you make false claims again


----------



## jrb531

Wind_River said:


> I say...."bring it up".
> 
> Personally, I think you'll end up paying MORE for fewer channels, but if that makes you happy.....I say.....be happy.
> 
> Cheaper to just block the channels you don't want.


While this is just my opinion (and I do not want to stir up another ala-cart debate) I feel you are correct short term.

Long term I think competition would bring prices down.

If you can pick and choose your channels the programmers most certainly do not want to price themselves out of the market.

Example:

I like to watch sports and it's no secret that ESPN is almost as expensive as some pay channels. If ESPN gets too expensive even many sports fans might cancel and those who are "sports lite" might not be too happy with large yearly increases.

In teh end ESPN would be forced to hold the line on costs and as such the rich spoiled athletes might have to live with 5 million a year instead of 20 million 

-JB


----------



## Richard King

Overall, alacarte will be more expensive IF you want the SAME channels that you have today. I don't want alacarte for this reason, even though I would certainly save under alacarte since I would delete ALL sports channels. HOWEVER, MANY of the lesser watched channels WILL go away completely under alacarte, which is maybe a good thing. An interesting thing to think about is what would happen to the required public interest channels? Would the PI channels be limited in number by the number of channels subscribed to?


----------



## blarg

E* is just a temporary measure for me. It was cheap. The 622 IS very nice...but as soon as Verizon puts in FIOS in my area, I'm buying a Series 3 TiVo and I'm off the reservation.

Uncompressed HD, 20+ Mbit upstream AND downstream internet, phone....all over fiber that goes right to my house...not just a switchbox that sits down the street.

E* better get something damn impressive working by then...I guess Slingbox is a good start....except TiVo does it too.


----------



## msmith198025

blarg said:


> E* is just a temporary measure for me. It was cheap. The 622 IS very nice...but as soon as Verizon puts in FIOS in my area, I'm buying a Series 3 TiVo and I'm off the reservation.
> 
> Uncompressed HD, 20+ Mbit upstream AND downstream internet, phone....all over fiber that goes right to my house...not just a switchbox that sits down the street.
> 
> E* better get something damn impressive working by then...I guess Slingbox is a good start....except TiVo does it too.


Uncompressed? care to back that up?


----------



## TBoneit

What's the Tivo S3 subscription going to cost you every month?

My guess it that it isn't cheap.


----------



## grooves12

TBoneit said:


> What's the Tivo S3 subscription going to cost you every month?
> 
> My guess it that it isn't cheap.


Would a Tivo Series 3 even work with FIOS??? I thought they are only compatible with CableCard.


----------



## Hound

grooves12 said:


> Would a Tivo Series 3 even work with FIOS??? I thought they are only compatible with CableCard.


I have Fios and my understanding is that the Fios cable card works with Tivo.


----------



## Guest

HDMe said:


> Bye!
> Also, both Dish and DirecTV have added HD channels lately that carry very little HD on them, so no big loss in my mind to not carry from day 1 if the channel isn't going to have a lot of HD on it anyway!


Only partially true (meaning it's partially *untrue*). Many of the new channels have a lot of HD content. Over the past few days, I've watched a bunch of HD shows on USA, SciFi, Bravo, and MHD. The baseball playoffs on TBS look great in HD. And the NFL Replay games on NFL Network are HD as well. Even History Channel has some HD programs. And tomorrow, MGM HD and National Geographic will be added. So there's plenty of HD content.


----------



## Guest

blarg said:


> Uncompressed HD, 20+ Mbit upstream AND downstream internet, phone....all over fiber that goes right to my house...not just a switchbox that sits down the street.


There is no "uncompressed HD", whether you use FIOS, satellite, or cable. All MPEG video is compressed.


----------



## msmith198025

rcoleman111 said:


> There is no "uncompressed HD", whether you use FIOS, satellite, or cable. All MPEG video is compressed.


thats why i asked him to back it up.
Not only that, id love to see the DVR hard drive where they can record all of that uncompressed HD......


----------



## HobbyTalk

All may not be well in FIOSland. Here is a person comparing FIOS HD side-by-side with Comcast HD.

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r19181795-The-Trial-is-ON~days=10

Spoiler......

He's going with Comcast


----------



## Ron Barry

rcoleman111 said:


> Only partially true (meaning it's partially *untrue*). Many of the new channels have a lot of HD content. Over the past few days, I've watched a bunch of HD shows on USA, SciFi, Bravo, and MHD. The baseball playoffs on TBS look great in HD. And the NFL Replay games on NFL Network are HD as well. Even History Channel has some HD programs. And tomorrow, MGM HD and National Geographic will be added. So there's plenty of HD content.


I think the point of this is that in a number of cases it takes a while for any new HD channel to ramp up and even then in the most cases it is a mixed bag. Some channels come out offering more HD than others but at this point in time one can expect to have a mixed HD and SD content on the channels being added both to D* and E*.

As you eluded to there is HD to be had on these channels but ofcourse some of them have a lot of SD upcast content with minimal HD content but overall there is a lot of HD to watch. In my opinion, the decision to add an HD channel should be based on the HD/SD ratio and the popularity of the show. Yes the more the better, but if HD is limited or non-existent the argument for adding a particular channel drops in my opinion.

The trend that I am liking is that as these channels get added they are coming out of the door with more HD content that previous channel launches. When TNT and ESPN were intially launched, HD was hard to find. More recently, when National Geo, Discovery, and Animal Planet was added on E* the channels out of the door contained a lot of HD content. Hopefully this trend will continue.

It is good times.... Lots of HD to watch and enjoy for both camps now, but when you look at the individual channels by themselfs there still is a lot of room for HD improvement.


----------



## Guest

msmith198025 said:


> thats why i asked him to back it up.
> Not only that, id love to see the DVR hard drive where they can record all of that uncompressed HD......


A lot of people have no idea how much storage uncompressed HD would require. I'm always amused when I see someone commenting about "uncompressed HD".


----------



## cdub998

rcoleman111 said:


> A lot of people have no idea how much storage uncompressed HD would require. I'm always amused when I see someone commenting about "uncompressed HD".


Same with audio. You have to compress everything or you are going to have some major bandwidth taken up. Maybe he mean't lossless?


----------



## msmith198025

cdub998 said:


> Same with audio. You have to compress everything or you are going to have some major bandwidth taken up. Maybe he mean't lossless?


I think he actually did mean uncompressed. That was a rumor for a while with the uninformed(no offense to him) and it has taken off. Its mainly just a lack of understanding about the whole subject


----------



## JohnL

rcoleman111 said:


> A lot of people have no idea how much storage uncompressed HD would require. I'm always amused when I see someone commenting about "uncompressed HD".


rcoleman,

No Kidding 1920x1080 that is 2 plus Million Pixels (picture Elements). Ok then, Video is 30 Frames per second although 1080 is interlaced so that is 15 Even Frames of about 1 Million Pixels, and 15 Frames of about another 1 Million Pixels. This equals about 30 Million Pixels per second in standard 1080i. Considering a Standard Over the Air Broadcast can only carry 18 Megabits per second how could HD exist without compression.

720p doesn't use much less bandwidth either, as a complete frame uses about 920,000 Pixels. Remember that a 720 HD stream is progressive so you use just under 1 Million Pixels per frame but every line is scanned each 30th of a second pass. So each second of 720p uses about 27.5 Million Pixels per second.

John


----------



## TBoneit

From a reply I got in another forum in May 2007.

"The Blackmagic card is mainly for capturing uncompressed HDMI from an HD camcorder and for feeding a monitor from an uncompressed NLE timeline. It probably won't work as a HTPC capture or monitor solution unless your PC can handle uncompressed HD or SD bitrates (270-1435Mb/s). Be prepared for file sizes at up to 750GB/hr."

Imagine how big a drive array you'd need to hold 40 hours of Uncompressed HD at those rates. Hmmmm 750Gb time 40 + humongous


----------



## tnsprin

JohnL said:


> rcoleman,
> 
> No Kidding 1920x1080 that is 2 plus Million Pixels (picture Elements). Ok then, Video is 30 Frames per second although 1080 is interlaced so that is 15 Even Frames of about 1 Million Pixels, and 15 Frames of about another 1 Million Pixels. This equals about 30 Million Pixels per second in standard 1080i. Considering a Standard Over the Air Broadcast can only carry 18 Megabits per second how could HD exist without compression.
> 
> 720p doesn't use much less bandwidth either, as a complete frame uses about 920,000 Pixels. Remember that a 720 HD stream is progressive so you use just under 1 Million Pixels per frame but every line is scanned each 30th of a second pass. So each second of 720p uses about 27.5 Million Pixels per second.
> 
> John


Try doubling some of those numbers. 1080i is about 30 full frames a second. 720p is about 60 full frames a second.


----------



## Guest

And don't forget to multiply by the number of bits per pixel for color depth.


----------



## msmith198025

rcoleman111 said:


> And don't forget to multiply by the number of bits per pixel for color depth.


i think ALOT covers it


----------



## Richard King

I think a few pixels fell on the floor. You really should clean those up before someone notices that they are gone. :lol:


----------



## tomcrown1

Pixel?? who got Pixels?? How Dumb are Pixels?? is that why we care for HD??

and those darn Pixels are all over my floor I had to compress them in my DISH compactor.

Now back to the subject with Direct Tv weekly release of HD what will dish do to stay ahead??

Add more HD programming or come up with a new math formula to brag about being #1???


----------



## msmith198025

tomcrown1 said:


> Pixel?? who got Pixels?? How Dumb are Pixels?? is that why we care for HD??
> 
> and those darn Pixels are all over my floor I had to compress them in my DISH compactor.
> 
> Now back to the subject with Direct Tv weekly release of HD what will dish do to stay ahead??
> 
> Add more HD programming or come up with a new math formula to brag about being #1???


stay ahead? dont you mean regain the lead?


----------



## Presence

So, we have this topic every, what, two weeks?


----------



## unr1

Presence said:


> So, we have this topic every, what, two weeks?


I guess you don't read the front page much.


----------



## moooog

I'm pretty happy with the current DISH HD lineup - I do get frustrated with having to watch the NFL and Superbowl in standard def. I like HD sports, and DISH did get me Fox Northwest and the Mariners in HD - without even announcing that it was on the schedule - so that was a nice surprise. Then the MLB playoffs come along - and they add TBSHD, pretty responsive. I don't pay attention to whether they're ahead or behind DirecTV - but I'm satisfied with the progress that I see - and what I get compared with 2 years ago. Sure, I'd like to see some more HD movie channels - more is always better, but I've been happy with the rate of addition of HD movie channels. I also like the HDPPV even though I seldom use it -but it's an excellent option if you have guests/visitors and want to find something instantly that you all haven't seen. I enjoy the Monsters HD channel, Filmfest, and RAVE - which I think are all VOOM. I'm just curious to know what is on USAHD that is so appealing? I would check out SCIFI HD, as Sci-Fi/Fantasy is perhaps my favorite genre, but I only like full length movies, not hour long TV series, and my recollection is that the SCI-FI channel movies are filled with commercials? Wouldn't things be stretched etc.? I never watch anything on TNT other than the NBA as I hate all the weird upconversions and weird aspect ratios, and I won't watch ComedyHD or SCIFI HD if they do things like TNT does.


----------



## tomcrown1

msmith198025 said:


> stay ahead? dont you mean regain the lead?


You are right what will Dish do to regain the lead?? use new Math??


----------



## archer75

tomcrown1 said:


> You are right what will Dish do to regain the lead?? use new Math??


All they have to do is add the same channels that Direct has and they will have more. Your forget all the voom channels.


----------



## TonySCV

archer75 said:


> All they have to do is add the same channels that Direct has and they will have more. Your forget all the voom channels.


That's because they are forgettable.

- T


----------



## Richard King

I really don't understand the need to bash channels that a person doesn't watch. Could it be that the bashers don't even have the service bashed? Judging from the posting history of the basher, I would suspect that this is the case. I watch Voom channels as much or more as any of the other HD channels that Dish carries. I would never consider switching services so long as another potential service didn't carry Rave, the best HD channel out there. Would you like to explain your comment, Tony?


----------



## nataraj

cdub998 said:


> Same with audio. You have to compress everything or you are going to have some major bandwidth taken up. Maybe he mean't lossless?


There really is no lossless HD video option either. Lossless is only with audio ...


----------



## Guest

moooog said:


> I'm just curious to know what is on USAHD that is so appealing? I would check out SCIFI HD, as Sci-Fi/Fantasy is perhaps my favorite genre, but I only like full length movies, not hour long TV series, and my recollection is that the SCI-FI channel movies are filled with commercials? Wouldn't things be stretched etc.? .


USA HD has been showing a marathon of last season's episodes of Law & Order: Criminal Intent, in addition to first-run episodes of the new season. They are doing the same with L&O: SVU. They also had repeat showings of the premiere episodes of Chuck, Journeyman, and Life this past weekend. They are repeating Life after the episodes appear on NBC. They've shown a ton of HD content since DirecTV picked up the HD channel and even the SD content looks great - I haven't seen any of it stretched so far. I've watched some JAG episodes that are in pillar box format and they look incredibly sharp (I'm pretty sure it's upconverted SD, but it looks so good it's hard to be sure). Catherine Bell looks so good on the HD channel I'm thinking of watching all of the episodes again. I'm definitely going to DVR the Boomerang episodes.

SciFi has a number of their shows in HD now - Flash Gordon and Stargate Atlantis, plus the upcoming season of Battlestar Galactica.


----------



## msmith198025

rcoleman111 said:


> USA HD has been showing a marathon of last season's episodes of Law & Order: Criminal Intent, in addition to first-run episodes of the new season. They are doing the same with L&O: SVU. They also had repeat showings of the premiere episodes of Chuck, Journeyman, and Life this past weekend. They are repeating Life after the episodes appear on NBC. They've shown a ton of HD content since DirecTV picked up the HD channel and even the SD content looks great - I haven't seen any of it stretched so far. I've watched some JAG episodes that are in pillar box format and they look incredibly sharp (I'm pretty sure it's upconverted SD, but it looks so good it's hard to be sure). Catherine Bell looks so good on the HD channel I'm thinking of watching all of the episodes again. I'm definitely going to DVR the Boomerang episodes.
> 
> SciFi has a number of their shows in HD now - Flash Gordon and Stargate Atlantis, plus the upcoming season of Battlestar Galactica.


correct. all of the HD "non hd" channels are coming along nicely. Im happy


----------



## bobukcat

Richard King said:


> I really don't understand the need to bash channels that a person doesn't watch.
> 
> SNIP
> 
> Rave, the best HD channel out there.


I'll second that! The Tom Petty concert this summer was a good example of the excellent programming and production quality on RAVE.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

It sounds like USAHD might be a good add then, based on the reports it seems to have the most HD of the recent new channels. It's a shame that Dish added TBSHD, quite possibly under pressure from baseball fans... as it appears very little besides baseball on TBSHD will actually be in HD. Shame we couldn't have gotten USAHD instead.


----------



## richiephx

Richard King said:


> I really don't understand the need to bash channels that a person doesn't watch. Could it be that the bashers don't even have the service bashed? Judging from the posting history of the basher, I would suspect that this is the case. I watch Voom channels as much or more as any of the other HD channels that Dish carries. I would never consider switching services so long as another potential service didn't carry Rave, the best HD channel out there. Would you like to explain your comment, Tony?


Ditto RK...I too enjoy many of the VOOM channels and I think VOOM is a great addition to any HD lineup; and it's 24/7 HD. You can't say that about most of the new HD channels that are being added. It's unfortunate that many who post negatively about VOOM probably never have watched any of the channels. When you try to engage them in further discussion you never get a reply from them. It's called the hand-puppet syndrome. It's hard for some people to create original thoughts. I would not be surprised that, at some time in the future, D* adds VOOM to their lineup. How will all the people who comment so vehemently about VOOM react if that ever happens?


----------



## whatchel1

I say ditto on Voom. To me RAVE by it self is worth it. I know there are repeats but that also helps me when I miss a concert that I real wanted to see/DVR.


----------



## heisman

For those interested in switching to D* from E*, consider these shortcomings. The VIP622 is an advanced DVR at worst, while the HR20 is a below average STB at best. Also, D*'s HD PQ is definitely a notch or two below E*'s HD PQ at this time. Some of the channels they are adding are basically Voom Channels with different names. In other words, content lacking niche type programming. One big difference is that you don't have to pay for them over there, they are on a separate paid tier coming in December---for which I have no interest in paying. I am happy with my switch because of NFLST, March Madness, and much improved SD PQ. But, if these things are low on your list, stay where you are.


----------



## dclaryjr

heisman said:


> I am happy with my switch because of NFLST


That is the only thing that could entice me to switch. I'm happy with E*s HD line up (but I'll gladly take more  , but I don't get CBS or Fox HD programming which shuts me out of daytime NFL HD. Sunday Ticket would provide a nice fix for that.


----------



## Guest

The new MGM HD channel is great, too. It's all HD movies, uncut and commercial-free. Of the new HD channels added so far, it's one of the best.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

Right now I would prefer Dish to cherry-pick and maybe even negotiate better deals for some channels than just trying to line them all up. We have seen multiple times in the last couple of years where DirecTV has rushed to sign something and then Dish holds out for a better deal. I remember DirecTV going back after LifeTime and demanding the same better deal that Dish got through a holdout. Then the recent lawsuit Dish won where DirecTV and cable companies had paid a settlement instead of fighting.

Different companies, different ways of doing business... but so far Dish has better suited me in the way they handle theirs.

I remember Dish had TNTHD for nearly a year before DirecTV added it, and even now DirecTV takes it down sometimes for the NFL Sunday Ticket premium customers. I also remember DirecTV had ESPN2HD and UniversalHD for nearly a year before Dish added them... so it has worked both ways.

If DirecTV customers could be patient for a couple of years waiting for new HD... I don't see why Dish customers are panicking over the last month. I am certain we will see more HD from Dish, though I can't say I know or have a feeling when... I just know Dish will not sit and do nothing, but they may not tell us all their plans in advance.. and I don't feel like they owe me that either.


----------



## Richard King

> I don't see why Dish customers are panicking over the last month.


I really have to wonder how much of the panic is being stirred by Dish people or simply uninformed Directv people, a sample of which we saw above.


----------



## msmith198025

heisman said:


> For those interested in switching to D* from E*, consider these shortcomings. The VIP622 is an advanced DVR at worst, while the HR20 is a below average STB at best. Also, D*'s HD PQ is definitely a notch or two below E*'s HD PQ at this time. Some of the channels they are adding are basically Voom Channels with different names. In other words, content lacking niche type programming. One big difference is that you don't have to pay for them over there, they are on a separate paid tier coming in December---for which I have no interest in paying. I am happy with my switch because of NFLST, March Madness, and much improved SD PQ. But, if these things are low on your list, stay where you are.


Im sorry but shouldnt you add to this, IMO? I mean i understand thats what you think, but alot of people would disagree with your assesment of the HR-20 and HD pq. Buts thats just my opinion


----------



## cdub998

nataraj said:


> There really is no lossless HD video option either. Lossless is only with audio ...


Maybe for TV but I am pretty sure that somewhere out there, there is a lossless HD master of these shows.


----------



## He Save Dave

I hope this is just the start of a huge shootout in which we the customer benefit by 189 new HD channels.


----------



## paulman182

I think a lot of those looking to switch to D* are impressed by the choice of channels D* added, and unimpressed by Voom.

I'm sure most, if not all, of D*'s new channels will be coming to E* at some point.

I wish D* would get Voom! However, D*'s new channels are making me pretty happy. But just as people once were impressed by E*'s HD _numbers_, they are now impressed by D*'s HD _selection. _

Not criticising--I wish I had both services!--just observing.


----------



## Hound

HDMe said:


> It sounds like USAHD might be a good add then, based on the reports it seems to have the most HD of the recent new channels. It's a shame that Dish added TBSHD, quite possibly under pressure from baseball fans... as it appears very little besides baseball on TBSHD will actually be in HD. Shame we couldn't have gotten USAHD instead.


It was not a shame that TBSHD was added instead of USAHD for two reasons:

1. The baseball playoffs most likely had the interest of the largest niche of
E* HD subs during that time period. When I say niche, I mean maybe 15% of HD subs would actually watch the baseball playoffs, while maybe 8% would watch USAHD. The percentages are examples only.

2. With the Rockies making the LCS, E*, as the 3rd largest MVP not having TBS HD would stick out like a sore thumb, because the other top four MVPs provided it. E* would have been subject to criticism in their home state and around the US.

Of the three major sports on RSNs, baseball, ice hockey and NBA basketball,
baseball RSN ratings usually blow away ice hockey and basketball. Sometimes
the baseball ratings are five or more times as high.


----------



## coldmiser

I for one enjoy a lot of the Voom programing. MonsterHD and KungFuHD are two of my favorites.

That said though...I still really want USA, SciFi, and Bravo HD and I'm dissapointed DTV got them before Dish.


----------



## paulman182

coldmiser said:


> I for one enjoy a lot of the Voom programing. MonsterHD and KungFuHD are two of my favorites.
> 
> That said though...I still really want USA, SciFi, and Bravo HD and I'm dissapointed DTV got them before Dish.


Those two Voom channels would be the ones I would watch also, if I had the channels.


----------



## jrb531

coldmiser said:


> I for one enjoy a lot of the Voom programing. MonsterHD and KungFuHD are two of my favorites.
> 
> That said though...I still really want USA, SciFi, and Bravo HD and I'm dissapointed DTV got them before Dish.


LOL you are the very first that I have read that liked old kung fu movies 

To me it's a waste of bandwidth. I have nothing against people who like those sort of movies but 24/7 kung fu???? You would thing that there were any number of subjects that would appeal to more people over kung fu. Maybe I'm in the minority. Maybe all of you can't wait to get home to watch several hours of old kung fu movies 

Just an example of how people all have different tastes.

About half of the Voom channels are a total waste to me. Monsters is getting better. I see that they are showing more of the first movies of a group instead of only the last (and usually bad) ones.

-JB


----------



## jkane

Monster and KungFu are amoung my favorites too. Remo Williams The Adventure Begins has always been a classic in my mind. Lot's of Jet Li too. Not all old kung Fu. They do newer stuff too.


----------



## TBoneit

Halloween, the movie in HD! The Mummy movies they showed a while ago, definately worth watching.

And some of the Shows on Rave!

Some of the shows on World & Equator.

Worthless? not to me and I resent being called a no-one when someone knocks those channels. 

When you say No-One watches those channelsyou insult everyone that likes and watches them. Change your mantra to they are IMHO a niche product.


----------



## cdub998

jkane said:


> Monster and KungFu are amoung my favorites too. Remo Williams The Adventure Begins has always been a classic in my mind. Lot's of Jet Li too. Not all old kung Fu. They do newer stuff too.


And shaolin soccer. Love that movie. They played enter the dragon too.


----------



## Guest

whatchel1 said:


> I say ditto on Voom. To me RAVE by it self is worth it. I know there are repeats but that also helps me when I miss a concert that I real wanted to see/DVR.


Does Dish carry MHD? I'm curious as to how RAVE compares to it. MHD has a lot performance videos and concerts, and it's 100% HD as well. Is RAVE similar to what MHD offers?

BTW, I wasn't bashing RAVE in my previous post. It sounds like a good channel, I just meant that USA and SciFi have a broader audience and I'm sure there are many Dish subscribers who would like to have them in HD.


----------



## Hound

rcoleman111 said:


> Does Dish carry MHD? I'm curious as to how RAVE compares to it. MHD has a lot performance videos and concerts, and it's 100% HD as well. Is RAVE similar to what MHD offers?
> 
> BTW, I wasn't bashing RAVE in my previous post. It sounds like a good channel, I just meant that USA and SciFi have a broader audience and I'm sure there are many Dish subscribers who would like to have them in HD.


Yes, Dish carries MHD, but I could not give a comparison since I very rarely watch.
Both channels seem similar and both seem to be very good. I am sure that the
regular viewers have their own preferences.


----------



## tomcrown1

rcoleman111 said:


> Does Dish carry MHD? I'm curious as to how RAVE compares to it. MHD has a lot performance videos and concerts, and it's 100% HD as well. Is RAVE similar to what MHD offers?
> 
> BTW, I wasn't bashing RAVE in my previous post. It sounds like a good channel, I just meant that USA and SciFi have a broader audience and I'm sure there are many Dish subscribers who would like to have them in HD.


MHD is better. since you get all of HD programs from the MTV franchise.

Rave is one to two year old Sound Track from Public Broadcast and some British rock programs.


----------



## zlensman

jrb531 said:


> LOL you are the very first that I have read that liked old kung fu movies
> 
> To me it's a waste of bandwidth. I have nothing against people who like those sort of movies but 24/7 kung fu????


Come on, JB, just because the name of the channel is Kung Fu does not mean that is the only thing that they show. Just like "Real World" is on _Music _TeleVision (MTV) and "Sopranos" is on Home _Box Office_ (HBO), viewers understand that the name of a channel does not dictate its content.

Kung Fu HD is Asian action cinema, with an emphasis on martial arts. Besides the standard kung fu film, they show interesting sub-genres such as chop sockey. They show Hong Kong Actioners, where the fighting is done with guns. They show lots of Japanese films -- samurai films, jidaigeki, chanbara, and Kurosawa-style samurai "westerns" -- as well as yakuza (gangster) films with more guns. Check the schedule for Monday, 10/15, it's like a Kurosawa marathon. They occasionally show a martial arts film that's not from Asia, but Germany or France or America.

I like many of these genres, but not all of them. It's great that they are all shown in 1080i and most are mastered from the original film negative because this is the best presentation available outside of a theater. Inside of a theater, they rarely show these films. IFC shows samurai films, but that's SD and while they have the decency to letterbox it only reduces the image quality even further. So, hooray for Kung Fu HD.

Now, I'll admit that the selection is limited and the repetition is excessive. But I have seen more great Asian films on Kung Fu HD in high quality in the comfort of my home theater than I could have seen in a lifetime of seeking out the little niche theaters that show them.


----------



## moooog

jkane said:


> Monster and KungFu are amoung my favorites too. Remo Williams The Adventure Begins has always been a classic in my mind. Lot's of Jet Li too. Not all old kung Fu. They do newer stuff too.


I do not watch Kung Fu - but was happy to snag a HD recording of Remo Williams - great flick! Too bad there weren't more made. I'm still trying to figure out where the third Conan movie is - Arnold is even the right age to be King Conan.


----------



## bobukcat

tomcrown1 said:


> MHD is better. since you get all of HD programs from the MTV franchise.
> 
> Rave is one to two year old Sound Track from Public Broadcast and some British rock programs.


I think you meant SoundStage, and you're mostly correct, but then MHD will seem newer to you (and I) because we haven't had as much chance to see the same re-runs over and over. I'm not ready to give MHD the nod as being better just yet, and RAVE does release some newer stuff now and then - like the aforementioned Tom Petty concert this summer and Queen w/ Paul Rodgers.

Don't get me wrong, I'm anxious to see MHD tap into more of their vault but right now it's too many repeats of "cross-country" and the same few "Storyteller" shows. I wonder if any of the older "Unplugged" shows were shot in HD (or film)?? I'd like to see Eric Clapton, Alice In Chains, and a few of the other classic ones in HD with DD5.1. I'd also like to see them do blocks of HD videos here and there (does anyone remember MTV actually showing videos??).


----------



## Richard King

rcoleman111 said:


> Does Dish carry MHD? I'm curious as to how RAVE compares to it. MHD has a lot performance videos and concerts, and it's 100% HD as well. Is RAVE similar to what MHD offers?
> 
> BTW, I wasn't bashing RAVE in my previous post. It sounds like a good channel, I just meant that USA and SciFi have a broader audience and I'm sure there are many Dish subscribers who would like to have them in HD.


Dish does carry MHD, but I prefer Rave. I am one who enjoys live concerts, and Rave is the place to get them. MHD, while it has some good stuff, has too much rap and other programming that I don't enjoy. I have Rave Shuffle, a "sampler" program that shows a variety of performances from the Rave programs on in a 30 minute time slot, on my DVR timer to record every program. This way I get a wide variety and this variety may attract me to watch a show that I might not normally watch.


----------



## nataraj

I'll take semi/real HD of Voom anyday over A&E or TNT HD - what are a streatch in more ways than one ...


----------



## msmith198025

nataraj said:


> I'll take semi/real HD of Voom anyday over A&E or TNT HD - what are a streatch in more ways than one ...


And you are more than welcome to as is anyone that feels so inclined one way or another. Whats funny about that though is you have at least one of them


----------



## unr1

any news on CNN HD?


----------



## James Long

unr1 said:


> any news on CNN HD?


Probably. It is a news network.

(And no, E* has not announced any upcoming channel additions ... apparently they want to surprise us!)


----------



## patmurphey

The title of this thread is nonsense. Dish has had far more HD than Direct for ages. We are a few days into Direct offering a few HD channels that are not on Dish - most of them do not have much HD content and Dish still has HD channels that are not on Direct. Direct does have a new big selection of HD premium movie channels in HD - how many of you pay for all Premiums? Dish has a new huge selection of HD PPV - does Direct? A little patience is in order. If you really believe that Dish won't remain HD leader or at least have comparable offerings, just go!


----------



## Hound

patmurphey said:


> The title of this thread is nonsense. Dish has had far more HD than Direct for ages. We are a few days into Direct offering a few HD channels that are not on Dish - most of them do not have much HD content and Dish still has HD channels that are not on Direct. Direct does have a new big selection of HD premium movie channels in HD - how many of you pay for all Premiums? Dish has a new huge selection of HD PPV - does Direct? A little patience is in order. If you really believe that Dish won't remain HD leader or at least have comparable offerings, just go!


By my accounts, currently, E* has more HD sports content than D* with NHL CI HD games every night and five BTN HD feeds. The Sunday Ticket HD channels are only
weekly. CI HD and the NBA LP HD (coming up next month) feeds are every night. There are a lot of D* subs complaining that D* does not have CI HD feeds, and only one BTN game is in HD. E* has some HD RSNs that D* does not have and
vice versa.


----------



## nataraj

msmith198025 said:


> And you are more than welcome to as is anyone that feels so inclined one way or another. Whats funny about that though is you have at least one of them


The question really is - are these cable channels ready or even willing to embrace HD ? From the look of it No - at least not yet.

And I've no idea what your second sentence means ....


----------



## whatchel1

patmurphey said:


> The title of this thread is nonsense. Dish has had far more HD than Direct for ages. We are a few days into Direct offering a few HD channels that are not on Dish - most of them do not have much HD content and Dish still has HD channels that are not on Direct. Direct does have a new big selection of HD premium movie channels in HD - how many of you pay for all Premiums? Dish has a new huge selection of HD PPV - does Direct? A little patience is in order. If you really believe that Dish won't remain HD leader or at least have comparable offerings, just go!


I have AEP so yes I sub to premiums. I don't do PPV period. Why pay extra for something I will get in a month. In fact I detest PPV for that fact. I can wait a bit for what I'm paying for already. What's mostly going on I feel is weve had the advantage for a long time now and want to keep it that way. If it available we want it. We want it "NOW" is what is going down. I don't blame anyone for feeling like that I want it too. Patience is a virtue it's not something that I'm that good at. Looks like I'm not the only one. It's obvious that's why this thread is still going.


----------



## Paul Secic

davethestalker said:


> I'm a gamer, so I appreciate GamePlay HD. However, the reruns are getting REALLY FRACKING OLD. G4 caters to stoned alcoholic porn mongers. They have way too much to be considered a valid source for gaming news and other information.
> 
> I miss TechTV. G4 was a blip on the map when TechTV was alive.


You're right! TechTV taught you something & it was fun. G4 is just another ch.


----------



## mikesd

Paul Secic said:


> You're right! TechTV taught you something & it was fun. G4 is just another ch.


My kingdom to be able to watch "The Screen Savers" again!


----------



## dld542004

krazy k said:


> I dont know why E. cant do hd right like D.
> they have a ton of hd channels that no one watches,
> I am thinking of switching to D. from E.
> i have been with E. for over 11 years,
> and am tried of paying for hd channels that i dont watch,
> D added hd channels that people want to watch,
> like
> Sci Hd,
> Usa Hd,
> Cnn hd,
> Tbs Hd,
> and what do we get
> Crap that we dont watch.............
> why cant we get more hd movie channels,
> ( not ppv movie channels)
> which they are just a money Grab.
> 
> And when they do add the hd channels we want
> there will be a fee increase.,
> i am sick of this .,,,,,
> Direct here i come.
> krazy


BYE BYE


----------



## jcord51

mikesd said:


> My kingdom to be able to watch "The Screen Savers" again!


Isn't that the truth:lol:


----------



## whatchel1

Screen Savers was F'n great. Leo was a god. So to speak.


----------



## tomcrown1

Did anyone see the new Direct Tv Ads???

It says Direct Tv has more HD than Dish---so what will Dish do now??


----------



## Hound

tomcrown1 said:


> Did anyone see the new Direct Tv Ads???
> 
> It says Direct Tv has more HD than Dish---so what will Dish do now??


I also saw an ad on TV this weekend that D* currently offers 70 HD channels.


----------



## dclaryjr

tomcrown1 said:


> Did anyone see the new Direct Tv Ads???
> 
> It says Direct Tv has more HD than Dish---so what will Dish do now??


I noticed that too--they used to just mention cable in their ads. Now it's an all out assault!

I guess I'm lucky to have the viewing habits I do. I keep seeing the lists of channels D* is adding and my reaction is that I rarely if ever watch any of those now. I think the only channel we watch with any regularity that isn't HD at this point is Encore Westerns. Heck, I have a lot of recorded programs from preview weekends and other things that I just haven't had the time to watch. The only thing D* has at this point that I would like is Sunday Ticket...and that ain't gonna happen.


----------



## Richard King

> I keep seeing the lists of channels D* is adding and my reaction is that I rarely if ever watch any of those now


DITTO!!! I couldn't care less about USA, SciFi, etc. I think I could count on one hand the number of times I have tuned into any of those stations over the past year, and making them HD won't make me tune in any more.


----------



## ShawnL25

Hound said:


> I also saw an ad on TV this weekend that D* currently offers 70 HD channels.


The ad might be misleading but they do have a point, sooner than later E* needs to add these channels that everyone is trashing.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=103235


----------



## Hound

ShawnL25 said:


> The ad might be misleading but they do have a point, sooner than later E* needs to add these channels that everyone is trashing.
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=103235


Why aren't the E* HD RSNs on your list as well? I see you have them on D*. I sub to NHL CI and NBA LP with E* and all of the E* HD game feeds are available to me.


----------



## satex

D* has 24/7 channels for HD version of the RSN, while i believe E* only airs the HD games


----------



## Dicx

I sure hope E* adds FX soon, would have to miss a nonHD version of Nip/Tuck.


----------



## gjh3260

Richard King said:


> DITTO!!! I couldn't care less about USA, SciFi, etc. I think I could count on one hand the number of times I have tuned into any of those stations over the past year, and making them HD won't make me tune in any more.


I agree also. There really arent any HD channels that D* has and E* doesn't that I would watch anyway.

I am hoping for the NHL HD channel on E* and that is supposed to be available this Wednesday (10/17).


----------



## dclaryjr

ShawnL25 said:


> The ad might be misleading but they do have a point, sooner than later E* needs to add these channels that everyone is trashing.


I don't see anyone "trashing" any channels that D* is carrying and the E* isn't. I and others have merely stated that we don't care because we don't watch those particular channels. For the sake of others that do want them, I hope E* adds them. The only "trashing" going on here is by people who with one broad swipe label all the Voom Channels as "worthless" and worse even though there are people who clearly watch and enjoy several of them.


----------



## Hound

satex said:


> D* has 24/7 channels for HD version of the RSN, while i believe E* only airs the HD games


But what does 24/7 HD RSNs mean for D* subs across the entire US? I have
24/7 HD Channels with Verizon for CSN Phila, YES and SNY with no sports
blackout of any type. And I still only watch the Verizon HD games. The D* subs are posting that there are no HD games available on D* CI, while E* has had up to five HD games a night. I assume the D* subs can only watch the HD games
on the 24/7 HD RSNs if they live within the blackout area.


----------



## DoyleS

The good news with some of the new D* HD channels that E* doesn't have is that at least we know these channels exist in HD. FX is one I would like to see added just to be able to watch "The Shield' in HD. I am actually glad to see D* push to be #1 in HD as it means that E* and Cable will need to respond. That in the end should be good for all of us. 

..Doyle


----------



## rictorg

I wouldn't say people are trashing these channels, as much as people of rationalizing why these announcements aren't that important. ("Oh, I don't watch that, so I don't care..." or "That channel barely shows any HD, anyways") It is important to me for one point, and that is I justified the lack of Sunday Ticket because of the cost savings, HD lineup, and VIP622 that I received with Dish. E*'s advantage has disappeared on the first two accounts, and all thats left is the very, very good DVR.

If I had to choose again today, it would be a toss up, but I would lean D*. It's still not enough to get me to churn, but Charlie had better start whispering sweet tales of HD supremacy in my ear.


----------



## satex

Hound said:


> The D* subs are posting that there are no HD games available on D* CI, while E* has had up to five HD games a night.


There is 13 NHLCI (NHLHD) channels although not airing much other than To Be Announced, There is 1 NHL CI HD game scheduled on the program guide for this evening on D*

Redwings @ Ducks on channel 764-1 NHLHD I assume as they are adding HD RSNs they will offer more NHL CI games.


----------



## Richard King

> When E* doesn't get the channels, some decide that they are crappy channels, anyway.


With me, at least, that's not the case. Like I said, I RARELY if ever watch most of the channels that they picked up. I think it's great that they got them because that will drive Dish to add more HD programming, including, hopefully, some programming that I might be interested in.


----------



## Adam Richey

All I know is that I will be very upset if I have to wait until February for the kind of HD additions that DirecTV has been doing the past week. I am hoping for at least a few new HD channels, and MGM HD looks better and better every time I go to their website.


----------



## lionsrule

Um, excuse me everyone...BUT HAS ANYONE READ ABOUT THE LACK OF HD PROGRAMMING ON THE NEW CHANNELS?


I'll pass on the stretched out SD crap I'm used to seeing on AE"hd", etc....

I can get a good look at a piece of meat by sticking my head up a bulls ass, but I'll take the butchers word for it.


----------



## arxaw

E* and cablecos had their 15 minutes of HD fame. Now it's D*'s turn.

Competition is great.


----------



## Jon D

lionsrule said:


> Um, excuse me everyone...BUT HAS ANYONE READ ABOUT THE LACK OF HD PROGRAMMING ON THE NEW CHANNELS?
> 
> I'll pass on the stretched out SD crap I'm used to seeing on AE"hd", etc....
> 
> I can get a good look at a piece of meat by sticking my head up a bulls ass, but I'll take the butchers word for it.


I HAVE the new HD channels and you should know this. Most of the HD channels are NOT stretched. Most of the new programming IS in HD. And the older stuff that was not produced in HD still looks a thousand times better than in SD. As time goes on, more and more programming will be produced in HD. This post smells strongly of the "I don't have it so it's crap" mentality. See the previous post about sour grapes.


----------



## yoyo1010

Jon D said:


> I HAVE the new HD channels and you should know this. Most of the HD channels are NOT stretched. Most of the new programming IS in HD. And the older stuff that was not produced in HD still looks a thousand times better than in SD. As time goes on, more and more programming will be produced in HD. This post smells strongly of the "I don't have it so it's crap" mentality. See the previous post about sour grapes.


The one thing we all can be sure of is that Dish has too much $$$ invested in the game not to see D* and raise them. It might take getting the new birds up, but they will at least match them. Look how long it took D* to pass Dish up.


----------



## msmith198025

Jon D said:


> I HAVE the new HD channels and you should know this. Most of the HD channels are NOT stretched. Most of the new programming IS in HD. And the older stuff that was not produced in HD still looks a thousand times better than in SD. As time goes on, more and more programming will be produced in HD. This post smells strongly of the "I don't have it so it's crap" mentality. See the previous post about sour grapes.


thats the problem, most are only READING about it, and havent seen it. Most of what they read seems to be coming from others who havent seen it also. Its a viscious cycle


----------



## jrb531

Wind_River said:


> It's like the Aesop Fable of the Fox and the grapes......
> 
> When the fox couldn't get the grapes, he decided they were sour anyway.
> 
> When E* doesn't get the channels, some decide that they are crappy channels, anyway.
> 
> The IMPORTANT thing is for all of us to complain about, and put down, the channels we don't like, in favor of the channels that we do like and want.
> 
> I never watch SciFI, so I hope E* never gets it.
> 
> The only sports channel that I watch is Fox Sports Rocky Mountain so I want E* to keep that and get rid of all other sports channels.
> 
> I like Monsters and Film Fest, so I want E* to keep those and get rid of Rave and MHD (since I never watch those).
> 
> There is no reason for Hockey and Basketball HD channels since I don't watch them.
> 
> CNNHD would be good......I'd watch that.....keep it
> 
> Fox Business -- forget it.....I never watch Fox News, why should we have Fox Business?
> 
> I'm sure there are some who will not understand the sarcasm in this post.
> 
> :lol: :nono:


LOL exactly! We sure as heck counted our crap channels when we wanted to gloat. Now all of a sudden half of D*'s channels should not count 

At least Voom (even the crap ones) are all in HD 24/7 

-JB


----------



## Guest

lionsrule said:


> Um, excuse me everyone...BUT HAS ANYONE READ ABOUT THE LACK OF HD PROGRAMMING ON THE NEW CHANNELS?


Um, excuse me, but I've actually SEEN what's there, and I can tell you firsthand that there is more HD on those new channels than I have time to watch. Someday Dish will add those channels and you'll be able to see for yourself.


----------



## lionsrule

rcoleman111 said:


> Um, excuse me, but I've actually SEEN what's there, and I can tell you firsthand that there is more HD on those new channels than I have time to watch. Someday Dish will add those channels and you'll be able to see for yourself.


Ah HA, I too, have seen the "HD" on several of the new channels. My parents have directvHD. Sorry, but ALOT of the programming is in stretchovision....just like it has been for years on TNTHD. Every once and a while you will luck out and get a movie in REAL HD. Please don't cry to me about how the HD is only as good as the content providers....I KNOW THIS ALREADY. I am not criticizing direct, I am only stating that stretched, upconverted content on USA or Cartoon or Scifi, or TNT or TBS is not a great loss. Again, I have seen you precious programming (or at least a few hours of it ( I do have a job after all)), and I am not running to my phone to drop E.


----------



## jpeckinp

lionsrule said:


> Ah HA, I too, have seen the "HD" on several of the new channels. My parents have directvHD. Sorry, but ALOT of the programming is in stretchovision....just like it has been for years on TNTHD. Every once and a while you will luck out and get a movie in REAL HD. Please don't cry to me about how the HD is only as good as the content providers....I KNOW THIS ALREADY. I am not criticizing direct, I am only stating that stretched, upconverted content on USA or Cartoon or Scifi, or TNT or TBS is not a great loss. Again, I have seen you precious programming (or at least a few hours of it ( I do have a job after all)), and I am not running to my phone to drop E.


I guess D* and E* should wait until 100% of the programming is in HD.:nono2: 
The point is the channel is capable of showing HD which is 100% better than the over compressed SD channel that has absolutely NO chance of showing anything in HD. These channels will get more programming in HD, almost everything these days are taped/filmed in HD.


----------



## Spike

I am very picky about HD. I'll say two things. I've seen Dish, since I had them. I've seen Directv, since I currently have them. The HD content looks stunning on Directv. The stretched picture of SD content looks very good for what it is. This is the best overall viewing experience that I've had, since the VOOM DBS days. I like E*, and I hope that they can and will add more HD channels. The amount of HD content over the years will greatly imporve. This is just the beginning of something that is really going to be a great thing for all of us E* and D* subs.


----------



## Guest

lionsrule said:


> Ah HA, I too, have seen the "HD" on several of the new channels. My parents have directvHD. Sorry, but ALOT of the programming is in stretchovision....just like it has been for years on TNTHD. Every once and a while you will luck out and get a movie in REAL HD. Please don't cry to me about how the HD is only as good as the content providers....I KNOW THIS ALREADY. I am not criticizing direct, I am only stating that stretched, upconverted content on USA or Cartoon or Scifi, or TNT or TBS is not a great loss. Again, I have seen you precious programming (or at least a few hours of it ( I do have a job after all)), and I am not running to my phone to drop E.


The content I listed in my previous post is real HD, not stretched or upconverted content. And it's only a partial listing of what I've watched since those new channels went live. I've cited enough examples to prove there is a ton of HD content on those new channels, while you're just repeating the same nonsense. If you want to pretend there's no HD on the new DirecTV channels, go right ahead if it makes you feel better. I'll continue watching the new HD programming on DirecTV and you can continue watching your SD programming on Dish.


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## lionsrule

Check this out...http://www.tvpredictions.com/dvideo101607.htm

I rest my case.


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## cb7214

lionsrule said:


> Check this out...http://www.tvpredictions.com/dvideo101607.htm
> 
> I rest my case.


and every HD channel on E* is 24/7 365 of HD

I rest my case


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## Jason Nipp

krazy k said:


> ...
> D added hd channels that people want to watch,
> like ...
> Sci Hd,
> Usa Hd,
> Cnn hd,
> Tbs Hd,


Perhaps someone pointed this out already (Not gonna read every post in this thread), But didn't Dish add TBS-HD?


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## Guest

lionsrule said:


> Check this out...http://www.tvpredictions.com/dvideo101607.htm
> 
> I rest my case.


Oh wow, you found a blog that says not everything on every one of those new HD channels is HD. Now isn't that enlightening. I guess you missed the part that says "the DIRECTV high-def viewer has more to choose from". Or maybe you weren't listening when he talked about the crisp images and nice graphics on Fox Business News, or when he described MGM HD as "a nice addition".

Now what case is it that you're resting? That you can make the same lame comments ad nauseam?


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## Stewart Vernon

When I question the value of some of the recent DirecTV HD additions, I am NOT bashing DirecTV. If I were a DirecTV customer I wouldn't be wishing for some of those additions either... so as a Dish customer I can't feel too badly about not having all of these channels right now.

To be fair, some of the new channels DirecTV added are ones Dish has had for a bit now... and are nothing to write home about. Thus far TBSHD is a real loser channel to me, aside from baseball, and I dare anyone to claim of its greatness after baseball. This is true no matter who you get your TV from.

DirecTV has added some new channels that, by reports, do have some HD I would like to see... and that's a horse of a different color. But I am not sitting here worried that they might eclipse Dish in channel count by a wide margin when I really have only heard of a handful that seem to be showing a significant quantity of actual HD.

Again, this is not me bashing DirecTV. If the shoe were on the other foot... I would not be posting the virtues of these channels. I've complained about several channels that Dish has had over DirecTV in recent months and years.


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## lionsrule

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=105144


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## Guest

Yes, I'm disappointed that "Damages" isn't in HD on FX. On the other hand, I've been quite pleased by the HD programming on MGM HD, USA, SciFi, Fox Business Network, CNN, and all the new HD premiums that have been added.


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## normang

CNN's one-sided news, now in HD, yay... I think HDnet World report does a better job, even though some of those reports still don't have enough depth.. Somehow news in HD just doesn't do it for me. I prefer entertainment in HD. 

News just needs to do a better job of really presenting all sides of a story.. the past few years news is just terrible and all the people in it, with rare exceptions are too lazy to do a story right.. or even try to get the facts, even when in some cases all they have to do is visit a web site for transcripts.

As for the rest, its only a matter of time, everyone will have all the same channels with some exceptions on both sides. To go through the hassle of changing all your gear in an effort to get a few more channels when more than likely they will all show up eventually. The issue becomes, eventually this is going to cost someone something, wait till the increases show up for all these new channels, then watch the whining really begin..


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## TBoneit

I'm guessing sooner rather than later for the more popular channels to show up. 

I'm still unhappy that they added TBS-HD, Like I wanted anther stretch-o-Vision channel.


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## msmith198025

TBoneit said:


> I'm guessing sooner rather than later for the more popular channels to show up.
> 
> I'm still unhappy that they added TBS-HD, Like I wanted anther stretch-o-Vision channel.


easy enough to not turn it on....


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## HobbyTalk

normang said:


> News just needs to do a better job of really presenting all sides of a story..


No single news channel does that. If you want different views of the news (notice I didn't say unbiased) you need to read the news on the Internet and read it from different sources/countries.


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## koralis

gjh3260 said:


> I agree also. There really arent any HD channels that D* has and E* doesn't that I would watch anyway.
> 
> I am hoping for the NHL HD channel on E* and that is supposed to be available this Wednesday (10/17).


And yet, I don't give a fig about NHL/NBA/NFL HD, but SciFi is one of the channels that I watch the most. If Dish intends to keep their *WHOLE* customer base happy they need to start working on the non-sports channels or watch as people start to leave.

I'm around for a while... but Dish really needs to get SciFi straightened out if nothing else. (adding Comedy Central also would virtually eliminate my SD viewing!) I suspect that DirectTV made an exclusive agreement for some of these channels for a certain amount of time to try to pull customers. Hopefully it's not more than a couple of months. Q1/2008 seems the most likely time in terms of contracts, etc.


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## koralis

Wind_River said:


> :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> Yea.....THAT'S what they need to do.
> 
> :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


In contrast to adding more VOOM channels that you prefer? Yeah, I suspect it's a much better business decision. No one signs up for Dish to get TREASURE. Some people will stop signing up for Dish if Direct has SciFi HD and they don't. I originally signed up for Dish because SciFi and Comedy Central were in the lowest tier plan in contrast to DirectTV being in the next tier up. I'm not alone in terms of viewing habits.

ps. Way to be obnoxious.


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## jpeckinp

koralis said:


> And yet, I don't give a fig about NHL/NBA/NFL HD, but SciFi is one of the channels that I watch the most. If Dish intends to keep their *WHOLE* customer base happy they need to start working on the non-sports channels or watch as people start to leave.
> 
> I'm around for a while... but Dish really needs to get SciFi straightened out if nothing else. (adding Comedy Central also would virtually eliminate my SD viewing!) I suspect that DirectTV made an exclusive agreement for some of these channels for a certain amount of time to try to pull customers. Hopefully it's not more than a couple of months. Q1/2008 seems the most likely time in terms of contracts, etc.


Start working on the Non- Sports channels? That is all Charlie does. In case you hadn't noticed Nobody on Dish gets NFL Sunday Ticket, MLB Extra Innings, Nascar Hot Pass. Sure we get NBA and NHL and Big 10 until the end of March then it goes RSN but if you think all that Charlie does is cater to the sport fans you sir are insane.

Nothing is keeping you with E* if the one channel you want is on D* then go get it stop complaining about it here, most of us are getting very sick of hearing the D* has it so E* needs it now rhetoric.

I myself would love to have MLB and NFL on E* but I'm not going to let it ruin my viewing pleasure. Now I really don't care if E* gets SciFi HD or not I don't watch it but I'm not going to complain if they do add it and say that it's wasted bandwidth because it's not something I'll watch. Myself I wish every channel was HD clear down to the damn shopping channels that I don't watch but I'm sure somebody does and I bet they would love to see that little Unicorn figurine in HD.

I was with D* until March and when I heard a definite plan of where the new sats were going and that I wasn't going to be able to receive one of them I left because I wanted all the HD I could get, now I could run into the same problem with E* here next year once we find out for sure where the sats will be positioned permanently I'll just have to re-evaluate what I want to see and who can give it to me and I won't have second thoughts on leaving E* back to D* if that is what it takes.


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## Richard King

> Nothing is keeping you with E* if the one channel you want is on D* then go get it stop complaining about it here, most of us are getting very sick of hearing the D* has it so E* needs it now rhetoric.


Thank you!!!!


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## texaswolf

Wind_River said:


> :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> Yea.....THAT'S what they need to do.
> 
> :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


considering the fan base that sci fi shows that are in HD ....yeah that would be a very good business decision. You may not like it...but obviously from the disgruntled E* fans on this site and others....a ton of other people do care.......Now where as Gameplay i think is pretty cool...and ...sometimes...monster HD has a good flick...I wouldn't be betting money that Gallery HD or Treasure HD or Ultra HD...together could match ratings with BSG, Nip Tuck or Rescue Me alone from Sci Fi and FX...so lol...all you want


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## nataraj

It is very naive to assume something in Voom needs to be shutdown to get some of the new "HD" channels.


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## texaswolf

nataraj said:


> It is very naive to assume something in Voom needs to be shutdown to get some of the new "HD" channels.


wasn't claiming that..just stating something to someone who is obviously a voom fan that thinks sci fi being added is not a big deal ....because we have voom.....they shouldn't shut down any HD to add another...not needed


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## He Save Dave

I was getting ready to switch to D* but I've realized what alot of people on here were saying is correct. Most of the new D* HD is stretch-o-vision. Until they get more actual HD theres no reason to be trippin'. I'd still like my HD locals though.


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## texaswolf

He Save Dave said:


> I was getting ready to switch to D* but I've realized what alot of people on here were saying is correct. Most of the new D* HD is stretch-o-vision. Until they get more actual HD theres no reason to be trippin'. I'd still like my HD locals though.


yeah but the "main shows" on those arn't stretch o vision...seen them at a buddies....even the stretch on the other shows is better than the current SD...but..what are ya gonna do....:nono2:


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## richiephx

texaswolf said:


> yeah but the "main shows" on those arn't stretch o vision...seen them at a buddies....even the stretch on the other shows is better than the current SD...but..what are ya gonna do....:nono2:


Complain to the programmers, that's what you do. Send them an email or call them.


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## He Save Dave

Yeah it would be cool for the shows that are in HD. I wish we'd hurry up and get the transition to HD over with. This is painful.


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## paulman182

It all depends upon what channels you want to watch. 

There is no stretch on my favorite new HD channels (the new MGMHD, Starz and Max channels.) I am very happy.

The only time I see the stretch is when the family watches one of those channels.


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## msmith198025

richiephx said:


> Complain to the programmers, that's what you do. Send them an email or call them.


so they should do what? Letterbox them? Then you would have peope complaining about the bars on the side. You cant please everyone, and im sure they did some research on what the majority of the people would prefer before they chose to stretch content that wasnt shot in HD to begin with. On the stuff that was, no stretch


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## TBoneit

The bigger problem as I see it is if nobody complains about stretched then there is no incentive to spend the money for equipment to do true HD.


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## jrb531

msmith198025 said:


> so they should do what? Letterbox them? Then you would have peope complaining about the bars on the side. You cant please everyone, and im sure they did some research on what the majority of the people would prefer before they chose to stretch content that wasnt shot in HD to begin with. On the stuff that was, no stretch


They should LB them because then "we" get to decide if we want it stretched or not since we can do that either with our TV or Dish Box.

When they pre-stretch them then there is not too much we can do if we prefer to look at people who are not mutants 

-JB


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## texaswolf

jrb531 said:


> They should LB them because then "we" get to decide if we want it stretched or not since we can do that either with our TV or Dish Box.
> 
> When they pre-stretch them then there is not too much we can do if we prefer to look at people who are not mutants
> 
> -JB


yeah but the stretch option on my 622 is much worse looking than the prestretched stuff


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## msmith198025

texaswolf said:


> yeah but the stretch option on my 622 is much worse looking than the prestretched stuff


as it is for most people id bet


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## richiephx

texaswolf said:


> yeah but the stretch option on my 622 is much worse looking than the prestretched stuff


Try partial zoom, it's much better than what the programmers provide.


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## texaswolf

richiephx said:


> Try partial zoom, it's much better than what the programmers provide.


thats even worse...tops of peoples heads are cut off..i dont know why that or zoom were put on there


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## koralis

jpeckinp said:


> Start working on the Non- Sports channels? That is all Charlie does. In case you hadn't noticed Nobody on Dish gets NFL Sunday Ticket, MLB Extra Innings, Nascar Hot Pass. Sure we get NBA and NHL and Big 10 until the end of March then it goes RSN but if you think all that Charlie does is cater to the sport fans you sir are insane.


A large percentage of the HD channels added lately have been sports-centric. Probably because he can add large numbers of them to make Dish look better in the HD-count by adding the RSNs. Each invididual doesn't get a lot of new channels but charlie can claim to carry a lot of them.



> Nothing is keeping you with E* if the one channel you want is on D* then go get it stop complaining about it here, most of us are getting very sick of hearing the D* has it so E* needs it now rhetoric.
> .


Actually, because of the reciever upgrade contract, I'm bound for a bit unless I feel like paying a lot of money to leave and start over. (Probably the reason for the offer in the first place... knowing this scenario was coming up.)

In any event, you didn't read my post and decided to chastize me anyway? Did I say "Dish needs it now", or threaten to leave? Here's my statement:



> *I'm around for a while...* but Dish really needs to get SciFi straightened out if nothing else. (adding Comedy Central also would virtually eliminate my SD viewing!) I suspect that DirectTV made an exclusive agreement for some of these channels for a certain amount of time to try to pull customers. *Hopefully it's not more than a couple of months*. Q1/2008 seems the most likely time in terms of contracts, etc.


Where is the "Dish needs it now" statement? I said "hopefully" and "a couple of months" which is quite different from "now", and "I'm around for a while" which states that a lack of a channel on dish in the short term isn't going o make me jump ship. I speculate that we'll see the channel in Q1 2008, giving charlie plenty of time to get it added. I not only don't expect it right now, I'm giving Charlie the benefit of the doubt that it *will take time* and we'll get it ASAP.

However, if Charlie doesn't get it added in the long term, then yes... I will actually be leaving. It's not a threat, it's a statment of fact and it's also a statement of fact that other people that have similar viewing habits will also. Charlie knows this, so I assume that he's working to get them added ASAP. If that turns out not to be true, then I'll re-evaluate my relationship with the company. At this point in time, if any friends or family were to ask for my recommendation I'd have no choice but to tell them to go with DirectTv. That kills me.


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## James Long

msmith198025 said:


> ... im sure they did some research on what the majority of the people would prefer before they chose to stretch content ...


You are sure? I'm not. If there was a survey it was probably mis-handled (not exposing what was being done). I have an OTA local that non-proportional stretches everything to 16x9 with a crop on their HD. Sure the viewers MAY not figure out that the channel isn't HD sourced 24/7 and they "fill the screen" but it was THEIR CHOICE, not an answer to a survey!


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## texaswolf

James Long said:


> You are sure? I'm not. If there was a survey it was probably mis-handled (not exposing what was being done). I have an OTA local that non-proportional stretches everything to 16x9 with a crop on their HD. Sure the viewers MAY not figure out that the channel isn't HD sourced 24/7 and they "fill the screen" but it was THEIR CHOICE, not an answer to a survey!


do you know the reason for partial zoom and zoom on the 622 james? I cant see people really watching it like that.


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## James Long

Zoom is really nice ... I use that for letterboxed SD to fill my screen.

Partial zoom and zooming 4:3? Not something that I'll use. I rarely use stretch (only when I want to let my wife watch what I'm watching in another room -- I set my TV to 4:3 mode to unstretch it). Gray Bar is another one I don't use.

All of those are choices. Not choices I want made for me. Give me OAR!


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## texaswolf

James Long said:


> Zoom is really nice ... I use that for letterboxed SD to fill my screen.
> 
> Partial zoom and zooming 4:3? Not something that I'll use. I rarely use stretch (only when I want to let my wife watch what I'm watching in another room -- I set my TV to 4:3 mode to unstretch it). Gray Bar is another one I don't use.
> 
> All of those are choices. Not choices I want made for me. Give me OAR!


zoom really? it cuts off all kinds of things


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## Stewart Vernon

texaswolf said:


> zoom really? it cuts off all kinds of things


As James said... Zoom works if watching an SD channel that is letterboxing a 16x9 program, because zoom brings it up to full 16x9 widescreen. Still lacking in HD detail of course, but it is a proportional zoom and the only stuff that gets cut off in this particular scenario are the sidebars and sometimes part of the logo bug.


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## texaswolf

hmmm...maybe i'm doing something wrong...but it cuts off the tops oh heads...and brings up way to close for enjoyable viewing


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## jarvantgroup

krazy k said:


> I dont know why E. cant do hd right like D.
> they have a ton of hd channels that no one watches,
> I am thinking of switching to D. from E.
> i have been with E. for over 11 years,
> and am tried of paying for hd channels that i dont watch,
> D added hd channels that people want to watch,
> like
> Sci Hd,
> Usa Hd,
> Cnn hd,
> Tbs Hd,
> and what do we get
> Crap that we dont watch.............
> why cant we get more hd movie channels,
> ( not ppv movie channels)
> which they are just a money Grab.
> 
> And when they do add the hd channels we want
> there will be a fee increase.,
> i am sick of this .,,,,,
> Direct here i come.
> krazy


The grass is always greener on the front of the grass seed bag!! :icon_cool:icon_cool


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## Stewart Vernon

texaswolf said:


> hmmm...maybe i'm doing something wrong...but it cuts off the tops oh heads...and brings up way to close for enjoyable viewing


That is definately true if you zoom on a 4:3 picture. But zooming a letterbox picture does not cut off anything inside the 16x9 letterbox area.


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## GregLee

texaswolf said:


> hmmm...maybe i'm doing something wrong...but it cuts off the tops oh heads...and brings up way to close for enjoyable viewing


If there's a head near the top of the screen, you're right, zooming will cut if off. But if there's a bar at the top of the screen -- no head -- then zooming just cuts off the bar, and who cares?, because no one wants to look at bars. The ideal place to use zoom is when there are bars on all four sides, because then zoom cuts off all the bars, without any geometric distortion in the remaining picture.


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## texaswolf

GregLee said:


> If there's a head near the top of the screen, you're right, zooming will cut if off. But if there's a bar at the top of the screen -- no head -- then zooming just cuts off the bar, and who cares?, because no one wants to look at bars. The ideal place to use zoom is when there are bars on all four sides, because then zoom cuts off all the bars, without any geometric distortion in the remaining picture.


OK...gotcha...I've actually only come across that twice...any show not in HD...say Survivor....or anything on CW...is not in 16:9? since there are only side bars...forgive me for my ignorance ahead of time.


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