# Questions on Whole House DVR upgrade



## kymikes (Jan 16, 2008)

I have an upgrade scheduled for Friday but still have a couple of questions that I haven't seen answered (but I might have missed it in the deluge).

I have a current system with 2 HR21-700's and 2 H21's (1 -100 & 1 -200) so everything appears SWiM & DECA compatible. I currently have the 4 RG6 lines coming from the dish to a x8 powered multiswitch with 2 RG6 coax to each box (all homerun) and a cat 5e to each of the 4 boxes (also have a 3rd RG6 coax to a couple locations to provide OTA to a couple AM21's but this is separate and should remain separate). I have MRV running on the beta with manually assigned IP addresses and have selected and 'passed' the ports through my router for network services (if it gets used for something sooner or later).

My questions. I assume that the LNB on my dish will be replaced with a SWiM LNB since this will provide the support for the six tuners needed. I also assume that they will probably then functionally replace the multiswitch with an 8 way splitter (don't think there is a x6) and use one of coax lines to a DECA at each unit (2 DVR & 2 receiver). Please correct any errors in my assumptions.

Questions:
1. Does this configuration require 1 PI or 2? I see many comments that a PI is needed for SWiM and DECA. If the answer is 2, what location restrictions are there on the PI for SWiM? I believe that the PI for DECA would be handled by the 5th DECA that would be used to connect the DECA cloud to my network (this would be most convenient in my layout).

2. What has to be changed in the IP address assignment and port assignment and port passing for Network Services? Does the DECA cloud do a DHCP like assignment for communications with it's own subnet or will it use the manually assigned addresses currently used in each DVR/receiver?

Fortunately, I won't get into the SWiM 16 availibility problems or the HR20 quirks but, after reading some of the installation descriptions, I feel a need to understand the installation requirements better than the typical installers to try to keep my blood pressure down.

Any help will be greatly appreciated!


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## Grentz (Jan 10, 2007)

Your assumptions all sound right. As far as your questions...

1) 2. One for the SWiM and one for the DECA that is bridging to your network. The SWiM PI can be anywhere from the back of one of the receivers to where the line goes out to the dish. Just whatever works. If it is after the splitter (not between the splitter and the SWiM), make sure to put it on the power passing port on the splitter.

2) Nothing, just leave it all the same. DECA is the connection medium, but does not do any DHCP or any separation from your network. If you leave all the static assignments as they are and the forwarded ports the same, it should all continue to work just fine. The receivers will still just act as if they were connected as before.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

kymikes said:


> Questions:
> 1. Does this configuration require 1 PI or 2? I see many comments that a PI is needed for SWiM and DECA. If the answer is 2, what location restrictions are there on the PI for SWiM? I believe that the PI for DECA would be handled by the 5th DECA that would be used to connect the DECA cloud to my network (this would be most convenient in my layout).
> 
> 2. What has to be changed in the IP address assignment and port assignment and port passing for Network Services? Does the DECA cloud do a DHCP like assignment for communications with it's own subnet or will it use the manually assigned addresses currently used in each DVR/receiver?
> ...



One for the SWiM anywhere & one for the DECA to router on the DECA.
Nothing changes since the DECA cloud is basically invisible to the network.


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## vetrev (Sep 1, 2007)

I guess my first thought is why do you want to go to SWM and DECA? If you've already gone through the effort of running two coaxial lines to each receiver along with internet cables, what would you really gain? 

DECA and SWM together do exactly the same thing your setup does except on one line. That's the real advantage. Note that there are procedures on this forum for signing up for the Whole Home DVR Service without getting the equipment (just using an existing wired network). I personally had DECA installed because two receivers/DVRs were connected to the network via powerline adapters and two DVRs with wireless N game adapters. But my HD MRV video was not good. It stuttered more than it played. 

Regarding your questions: My SWiM power injector is in the basement next to my SWM 16, between that and the 8-way splitter. My DECA power injector is in the same room as my cable modem (my office). My IP addresses are the same as I had before in my previous setup. It seems that DECA used them without a problem.


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## dminches (Oct 1, 2006)

Grentz said:


> The SWiM PI can be anywhere from the back of one of the receivers to where the line goes out to the dish. Just whatever works. *If it is after the splitter (not between the splitter and the SWiM), make sure to put it on the power passing port on the splitter.*


Can you explain what you mean? Aren't all outputs of the splitter the same?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

dminches said:


> Can you explain what you mean? Aren't all outputs of the splitter the same?


You need to look at the splitter, because some are power [DC] passing only on one leg, which is where the PI needs to go.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Grentz said:


> Your assumptions all sound right. As far as your questions...
> 
> 1) 2. One for the SWiM and one for the DECA that is bridging to your network. The SWiM PI can be anywhere from the back of one of the receivers to where the line goes out to the dish. Just whatever works. If it is after the splitter (not between the splitter and the SWiM), make sure to put it on the power passing port on the splitter.
> 
> 2) Nothing, just leave it all the same. DECA is the connection medium, but does not do any DHCP or any separation from your network. If you leave all the static assignments as they are and the forwarded ports the same, it should all continue to work just fine. The receivers will still just act as if they were connected as before.


As long as they put in a DECA to reconnect you to the network. I lost Internet capability after my install, so had to reset the IP settings to get 169 addresses.


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## kymikes (Jan 16, 2008)

veryoldschool said:


> One for the SWiM anywhere & one for the DECA to router on the DECA.
> Nothing changes since the DECA cloud is basically invisible to the network.


Thanks to everyone for the quick responses. VOS, just to restate for my understanding - In my anticipated configuration, I would have one RG6 from the SWiM LNB to the splitter (taking the multiswitch out). I would want to install one PI at the splitter (convenient since my multiswitch is powered) and insure this PI is on the splitter output that is DC passing. The second PI would attach to coax output of the DECA module used bridge the network cloud to my home network. Since the network bridge DECA module also needs to connect to the SWiM splitter, I would have 4 outputs of the splitter going to the 4 units (2 DVR & 2 Recievers), 1 output of the splitter (DC passing) going to the SWiM PI and another output of the splitter going to the DECA module that is bridging the cloud to the home network and has the second PI. Are these PI's (SWiM vs. DECA) different or do I just need two at different points in the electrical topology? Since I am on 0x3de firmware, my software should be OK.

Thanks again.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

kymikes said:


> Are these PI's (SWiM vs. DECA) different or do I just need two at different points in the electrical topology? Since I am on 0x3de firmware, my software should be OK.
> 
> Thanks again.


They could be the same type or different. 
The DECA PI can be either the smaller 18 volt PI, or the 21 volt PI used with the SWiMLNB install.
If you look at the images thread at the top here, there are photos of each.


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## kymikes (Jan 16, 2008)

vetrev said:


> I guess my first thought is why do you want to go to SWM and DECA? If you've already gone through the effort of running two coaxial lines to each receiver along with internet cables, what would you really gain?
> 
> DECA and SWM together do exactly the same thing your setup does except on one line. That's the real advantage. Note that there are procedures on this forum for signing up for the Whole Home DVR Service without getting the equipment (just using an existing wired network). I personally had DECA installed because two receivers/DVRs were connected to the network via powerline adapters and two DVRs with wireless N game adapters. But my HD MRV video was not good. It stuttered more than it played.
> 
> Regarding your questions: My SWiM power injector is in the basement next to my SWM 16, between that and the 8-way splitter. My DECA power injector is in the same room as my cable modem (my office). My IP addresses are the same as I had before in my previous setup. It seems that DECA used them without a problem.


I pondered that question quite a bit. An earlier post from Doug convinced me that this would be worthwhile to guard against subsequent feature/function that would require SWiM/DECA and to insure that any DVR/receiver replacements in the future would be later level. Also this 'upgrade' gets the work don'e at a known price that could be higher if I did it a later point in time. My wired MRV performance had been great so this was not a factor. Thanks for your feedback.


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## kymikes (Jan 16, 2008)

veryoldschool said:


> They could be the same type or different.
> The DECA PI can be either the smaller 18 volt PI, or the 21 volt PI used with the SWiMLNB install.
> If you look at the images thread at the top here, there are photos of each.


Thanks. So they are functional the same but come in two different flavors (guessing the 21 volt PI may be needed for the higher load units like the SWiM16 but this would not be an issue in my installation).


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

kymikes said:


> Thanks. So they are functional the same but come in two different flavors (guessing the 21 volt PI may be needed for the higher load units like the SWiM16 but this would not be an issue in my installation).


Three flavors:
18 volt - DECA
21 volt - SWiM LNB
28/9 volt - SWiM 8 & SWiM-16

The SWiM LNB can use the 28/9 volt.
The DECA can use the 21 volt.
The DECA SHOULD NOT use the 28/9 volt & the SWiM8 & 16 should NOT use the 21 volt.


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## kymikes (Jan 16, 2008)

dpeters11 said:


> As long as they put in a DECA to reconnect you to the network. I lost Internet capability after my install, so had to reset the IP settings to get 169 addresses.


Yes, I double checked the work order confirmation to ensure internet connection was shown. My thought process is to ensure that the installer shows up with 5 DECA modules, 2 PI's, the splitter, SWiM LNB, etc. so that the installation is quick and easy and so I don't get any functional issues since it was all working before the 'upgrade'. If not, I'll have him come back when he has everything he needs.


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## kymikes (Jan 16, 2008)

veryoldschool said:


> Three flavors:
> 18 volt - DECA
> 21 volt - SWiM LNB
> 28/9 volt - SWiM 8 & SWiM-16
> ...


Got it! Many thanks again for all your help.


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## dwcolvin (Oct 4, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> Three flavors:
> 18 volt - DECA
> 21 volt - SWiM LNB
> 28/9 volt - SWiM 8 & SWiM-16
> ...


http://forums.directv.com/pe/RepositoryFileDownloadServlet/10690708/TB Issue 9 2010-051210.pdf on page 2 says (probably _incorrectly_) that you can use a 29V on a DECA... :eek2:


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

dwcolvin said:


> http://forums.directv.com/pe/RepositoryFileDownloadServlet/10690708/TB Issue 9 2010-051210.pdf on page 2 says (probably _incorrectly_) that *you can* use a 29V on a DECA... :eek2:


I would *NEVER *use.
Maybe "you can". :lol:


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## Grentz (Jan 10, 2007)

dpeters11 said:


> As long as they put in a DECA to reconnect you to the network. I lost Internet capability after my install, so had to reset the IP settings to get 169 addresses.


Though if you have static addresses it should still work. If you were DHCP before your situation would arise.


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## dwcolvin (Oct 4, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> I would *NEVER *use.
> Maybe "you can". :lol:


Not me! :nono2:


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## dwcolvin (Oct 4, 2007)

The most interesting part of that document is, "*Always use the SWiM meter to test the cable run - the SWiM meter is the blue meter*."

Yeah, right :lol:


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

dwcolvin said:


> The most interesting part of that document is, "*Always use the SWiM meter to test the cable run - the SWiM meter is the blue meter*."
> 
> Yeah, right :lol:


Mine is blue.


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## dwcolvin (Oct 4, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> Mine is blue.


And I bet you actually *use* yours!


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

dwcolvin said:


> And I bet you actually *use* yours!


"Used" might be more accurate. Once the receiver is up and running the SAT signal screen will give a better idea of 9 SWiM levels than the LEDs on the meter.
This meter is most useful if coax is being reused and may have cable rated splitters behind walls/craw spaces, etc. It is basically a "go/no go" status.


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## kymikes (Jan 16, 2008)

Well, my prep worked. The installer showed up on time at 8:30AM and was done with all the hardware install and unit reboots by 9:20AM. It then took D* about 40 minutes to get the authorization to take within their system but the installer stayed on them until all units showed authorized. The install was exactly like I anticipated and all was done by 10AM with half that time being phone time to complete the authorization.

Doug - my streak has continued one more time - got a pleasant, knowledgeable installer who did a great job.

Hip, hip, hooray!


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