# Reducing costs: How expensive is 'whole house' for 6 TV's



## kxaz145 (May 1, 2008)

Hi All,

I've been with DirecTV since 1999, so I've bought and installed my own equipment, then watched them be replaced with leased receivers. Costs have increased as well and a few months ago I dropped down to the lowest package to save $$, only to see the individual fees increase again. With 6 TV's and the primary one free, I'm paying $30 a month plus tax for the TV's. That's put me over $110 per month again.

Can anyone tell me what the comparable cost's would be with a 'whole house' setup on Ethernet or Wireless. I understand I might have to purchase additional equipment. I already have a Roku HD box and won an Apple TV box a few weeks ago. I'm about ready to cut the signal if I can't reduce my costs.

Thanks,

JimB


----------



## JosephB (Nov 14, 2005)

Ethernet, wireless, or coax has no impact on the costs.

If you have 6 TVs active on your DirecTV account, whether they be full fledged receivers or Genie clients, and whether they are connected via a coax wire or ethernet wire or wirelessly, you will have to pay the mirror fee on each of them, minus the first one of course.


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

If you're considering a Genie, don't get your hopes up about a DIY install.

Adding services always costs more so that's not going to help reduce costs. There will be an additional monthly fee of $3-5 for Whole Home service.

Since you've already bottomed out on the programming package, the next step is to reduce the number of boxes. If you don't require six independent views, it may be possible to share a box between TVs.


----------



## lugnutathome (Apr 13, 2009)

You haven't mentioned if you are already incurring the HD and DVR receiver fees. If not, they are an add to the whole home 3 dollar fee. Talk to customer retention after arming yourself with what a new agreement for a comparable service with a competitor would run. Even research what a new DirectTV subscriber might need to pay for a comparable landscape. Now Retention will not likely put a permanent cost reduction in place but will more than likely give you months (perhaps even a year or two) of discounting.

It is unfortunate that to attract new business the service providers put out near if not actual "loss leader" packages. Because of that though part of a long time subscriber's costs is the rates that make up that delta. It has reached a point where one may be better off just taking the new subscriber goodies and then cancel when they run out and try the next provider's new account bundles. Many out there do just this and it is a part of why these providers have such high "churn" rates which loyal customers unfortunately have to subsidize with their fee structures.

You won't know what you can get till you ask,

Don "you are not alone in your situation" Bolton


----------



## kxaz145 (May 1, 2008)

lugnutathome said:


> You haven't mentioned if you are already incurring the HD and DVR receiver fees. If not, they are an add to the whole home 3 dollar fee. Talk to customer retention after arming yourself with what a new agreement for a comparable service with a competitor would run. Even research what a new DirectTV subscriber might need to pay for a comparable landscape. Now Retention will not likely put a permanent cost reduction in place but will more than likely give you months (perhaps even a year or two) of discounting.
> 
> It is unfortunate that to attract new business the service providers put out near if not actual "loss leader" packages. Because of that though part of a long time subscriber's costs is the rates that make up that delta. It has reached a point where one may be better off just taking the new subscriber goodies and then cancel when they run out and try the next provider's new account bundles. Many out there do just this and it is a part of why these providers have such high "churn" rates which loyal customers unfortunately have to subsidize with their fee structures.
> 
> ...


Three thoughtful replies, thanks guys. Yes, I do have a HD DVR and I have dealt with retention in the past. My monthly bill was reduced for a year and when I called back they said it wasn't designed to be permanent and agreed to continue the reduction for 3 more months. When that expired I dropped down to the lowerst package. I'll do some research and call retention again, or see where I am in the 2 year requirement. I only watch a handful of the available channels and the cost is hard to justify. I'm ready to buy a Tivo and go with locals and the web.

Thanks, JimB


----------



## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

reducing costs and wanting 6 tv's is what is hurting you the most....they dont really go together. You could reduce your total receiver count by a couple if you are willing to only be able to watch the same channel at the same time in a few of those 6 rooms. if you need independent viewing in all 6 rooms, then your extra equipment fees cant be reduced because you would need 6 boxes, one for each tv.


----------



## kxaz145 (May 1, 2008)

CCarncross said:


> reducing costs and wanting 6 tv's is what is hurting you the most....they dont really go together. You could reduce your total receiver count by a couple if you are willing to only be able to watch the same channel at the same time in a few of those 6 rooms. if you need independent viewing in all 6 rooms, then your extra equipment fees cant be reduced because you would need 6 boxes, one for each tv.


You're right and at least 3 of them are superfluous and only used when kids, grandkids visit. That's $18 + tax per month. Let's see if this will make Momma unhappy, we all know what that means....


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

kxaz145 said:


> You're right and at least 3 of them are superfluous and only used when kids, grandkids visit. That's $18 + tax per month. Let's see if this will make Momma unhappy, we all know what that means....


You can put the unused HRs in "vacation" status and just reactivate them when folks visit.

Rich


----------



## Supramom2000 (Jun 21, 2007)

Rich said:


> You can put the unused HRs in "vacation" status and just reactivate them when folks visit.
> 
> Rich


That's what I did. Both my boys went off to college, so I deactivated their receivers. I have a Genie client that I move around to the various TVs as needed. If one of the boys comes home for the summer, I will reactivate a receiver for that time period.


----------



## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

I seem to be seeing more and more of this type of question, It makes me wonder if subscription fees are approaching the tipping point where subscribers just drop the service and not move on to a different service.

Going instead to OTA and Netflix for example.

TBoneit


----------



## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Rich said:


> You can put the unused HRs in "vacation" status and just reactivate them when folks visit.
> 
> Rich


Is this even possible to place just some leased receivers on "vacation"? I was under the impression that it had to be the entire account&#8230;


----------



## Supramom2000 (Jun 21, 2007)

TBoneit said:


> I seem to be seeing more and more of this type of question, It makes me wonder if subscription fees are approaching the tipping point where subscribers just drop the service and not move on to a different service.
> 
> Going instead to OTA and Netflix for example.
> 
> TBoneit


I would if we could get good internet. We have 1.5 MB available only. Totally sucks.


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

peds48 said:


> Is this even possible to place just some leased receivers on "vacation"? I was under the impression that it had to be the entire account&#8230;


Yeah, I think they are doing this with owned boxes. That's all that Rich has. It's always been one of the benefits of owned vs leased.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

TBoneit said:


> I seem to be seeing more and more of this type of question, It makes me wonder if subscription fees are approaching the tipping point where subscribers just drop the service and not move on to a different service.
> 
> Going instead to OTA and Netflix for example.
> 
> TBoneit


Evolution at work. I foresee having ten HRs sitting in my back room collecting dust. I gotta sell them.

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

peds48 said:


> Is this even possible to place just some leased receivers on "vacation"? I was under the impression that it had to be the entire account&#8230;


I've got a couple owned 20-700s on vacation right now. I've never tried to reactivate one, but I was assured that it was possible. Do I believe that? Kinda, but I wouldn't be surprised if I was fed another story by a CSR.

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Supramom2000 said:


> I would if we could get good internet. We have 1.5 MB available only. Totally sucks.


Huh. And I've been thinking about buying a place in Moses Lake. (Not in the lake, that's the name of the rather strange town). Is that all you can get in Spokane?

Rich


----------



## JosephB (Nov 14, 2005)

If they have to be "owned" receivers, then what's the difference between putting them on "vacation" and simply deactivating them? I suspect the CSRs are just playing word games and they are just deactivated. Do they still show up on your bill as "on hold"?


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

dpeters11 said:


> Yeah, I think they are doing this with owned boxes. That's all that Rich has. It's always been one of the benefits of owned vs leased.


I do have two leased 24-100s. I'm still stunned by how well they work.

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

JosephB said:


> If they have to be "owned" receivers, then what's the difference between putting them on "vacation" and simply deactivating them? I suspect the CSRs are just playing word games and they are just deactivated. Do they still show up on your bill as "on hold"?


The way it was explained to me was that I wouldn't have to buy a new access card if I put them on vacation. If I deactivate them I do have to buy a new card. Again, I've never activated one, so I can't say for sure if this is all true. It sounds like _*Mom*_ has done it, tho.

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

JosephB said:


> If they have to be "owned" receivers, then what's the difference between putting them on "vacation" and simply deactivating them? I suspect the CSRs are just playing word games and they are just deactivated. Do they still show up on your bill as "on hold"?


They don't show up on my bill at all. Your suspicions might be correct.

Rich


----------



## Supramom2000 (Jun 21, 2007)

Rich said:


> The way it was explained to me was that I wouldn't have to buy a new access card if I put them on vacation. If I deactivate them I do have to buy a new card. Again, I've never activated one, so I can't say for sure if this is all true. It sounds like _*Mom*_ has done it, tho.
> 
> Rich


But it does have to be owned. One of the ones I deactivated when the boys left turned out to be leased. I just received t.he return box for it yesterday. But I have 2 more owned in a closet


----------



## Supramom2000 (Jun 21, 2007)

Rich said:


> Huh. And I've been thinking about buying a place in Moses Lake. (Not in the lake, that's the name of the rather strange town). Is that all you can get in Spokane?
> 
> Rich


We just live way out in the boonies, on acreage. No one is will to run anything out to us unless we were in a large neighborhood that would justify the costs. Spokane itself has all the goodies available. We actually live in Colbert, but that is not even a town, it just has a post office for some reason, thus - our own town name!

We didn't even get DSL until 2007 I think. Prior to that, it was dial up or satellite.

However, Century Link is completely upgrading out here, so they told me I could change to a cable internet system, or something like that. But they told me it would be ready after Labor Day, and they are still out there on the roads working.

Anyway, Moses Lake proper will have most choices, but it is also a very spread out area with many homes on acreage. So I would make sure you know all the options available at each house you are looking at.

I inspected many, many homes being built in Moses Lake. None were in town, as they were all custom. I also inspected many, many HUD repos in town. Moses Lake is very poor, very Hispanic and full of gangs. But the outlying areas are where the wealthier folks live. It is also very desert like, with lots of red clay dust and dirt.


----------



## spedinfargo (Oct 6, 2005)

Another possibility that hasn't been brought up is to have a single receiver going to two or three of the TVs. If you can run an HDMI cable from one receiver to multiple TVs you could split the output and be able to watch it on multiple TVs. You'd be tied to watching the exact same thing on each of those TVs but it might be an option...


----------



## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Supramom2000 said:


> That's what I did. Both my boys went off to college, so I deactivated their receivers. I have a Genie client that I move around to the various TVs as needed. If one of the boys comes home for the summer, I will reactivate a receiver for that time period.


SO just to be clear, in order to put the receiver on "vacation" or better yet, deactivate them, they must be OWNED. there is no such thing for LEASED receivers. once they are deactivated, they must go back to DirecTV.


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Rich said:


> The way it was explained to me was that I wouldn't have to buy a new access card if I put them on vacation. If I deactivate them I do have to buy a new card. Again, I've never activated one, so I can't say for sure if this is all true. It sounds like _*Mom*_ has done it, tho.
> 
> Rich


I've deactivated an owned box, and they never asked for my access card back. Wouldn't think they'd still make me get a new one.


----------



## linuspbmo (Oct 2, 2009)

Rich said:


> The way it was explained to me was that I wouldn't have to buy a new access card if I put them on vacation. If I deactivate them I do have to buy a new card. Again, I've never activated one, so I can't say for sure if this is all true. It sounds like _*Mom*_ has done it, tho.
> 
> Rich


I have several owned receivers that I deactivate and then reactivate at will. All it takes is a phone call, no new cards.


----------



## Supramom2000 (Jun 21, 2007)

peds48 said:


> SO just to be clear, in order to put the receiver on "vacation" or better yet, deactivate them, they must be OWNED. there is no such thing for LEASED receivers. once they are deactivated, they must go back to DirecTV.


Correct, as I noted in second post regarding receiving a return box from DTV. But I have 2 others that are owned, that I can reactivate in place of the HR23 I just sent back.


----------



## JosephB (Nov 14, 2005)

I wonder how Genie clients fit into this. I assume even if you get a Genie client from somewhere like Solid Signal, they're leased. It'd be neat if you could just deactivate clients as needed and not have to send them back.


----------



## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

JosephB said:


> I wonder how Genie clients fit into this. I assume even if you get a Genie client from somewhere like Solid Signal, they're leased. It'd be neat if you could just deactivate clients as needed and not have to send them back.


This is interesting because as long as you have a Genie "license " or RVU slot on DirecTV's account, you can move that slot to different clients without notifying DirecTV. I think when it gets "hairy" is that when you get a Genie client, DirecTV is expecting to see another slot added to your account, but then when you order through 3rd party sites like solid signal, you are NOT given them your account number so...... :shrug:


----------



## JosephB (Nov 14, 2005)

peds48 said:


> This is interesting because as long as you have a Genie "license " or RVU slot on DirecTV's account, you can move that slot to different clients without notifying DirecTV. I think when it gets "hairy" is that when you get a Genie client, DirecTV is expecting to see another slot added to your account, but then when you order through 3rd party sites like solid signal, you are NOT given them your account number so...... :shrug:


If that's the case, then a Genie + clients could be a compelling solution to the "intermittent TV location" problem a lot of people try to solve with owned receivers.


----------



## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

Supramom2000 said:


> We just live way out in the boonies, on acreage. ...
> 
> Anyway, Moses Lake proper will have most choices, but it is also a very spread out area with many homes on acreage. So I would make sure you know all the options available at each house you are looking at.
> 
> I inspected many, many homes being built in Moses Lake. None were in town, as they were all custom. I also inspected many, many HUD repos in town. Moses Lake is very poor, very Hispanic and full of gangs. But the outlying areas are where the wealthier folks live. It is also very desert like, with lots of red clay dust and dirt.


Yeah, Moses Lake is a small town in a big area. Absolutely double check on everything before making any decisions. Warm to hot in the summer, cold and icy in the winter, flat and barren year round. Big airfield and you'll see all kinds of strange planes fly in and out of there, many military, in test mode. But for a commercial flight you'll end up on a dash 8 flying to Seattle or Spokane for connection.

Certainly a low cost of living (especially compared to my side of the mountains). Unless there is something specific drawing you to Moses Lake, I would look closer to Supramom, or north of her, on the east side of WA, and probably anyplace 20 or more miles from Seattle proper on the west side of WA (cost and traffic).


----------



## Joe Tylman (Dec 13, 2012)

peds48 said:


> This is interesting because as long as you have a Genie "license " or RVU slot on DirecTV's account, you can move that slot to different clients without notifying DirecTV. I think when it gets "hairy" is that when you get a Genie client, DirecTV is expecting to see another slot added to your account, but then when you order through 3rd party sites like solid signal, you are NOT given them your account number so...... :shrug:


Genie Mini Clients are leased only so if you deactivate one you would have to send it back. Activating the client will add the RVU license to the account regardless of where you get it.


----------



## JosephB (Nov 14, 2005)

Joe Tylman said:


> Genie Mini Clients are leased only so if you deactivate one you would have to send it back. Activating the client will add the RVU license to the account regardless of where you get it.


But you can order them from Solid Signal without giving up your account information. You can also activate an RVU client online without calling in (I think) and you can add/remove those differently than receivers since TVs have RVU clients. Does DirecTV's system recognize that a given MAC address is for a Genie mini vs. a Samsung TV and mark it for return should you remove an RVU license from your account?


----------



## JosephB (Nov 14, 2005)

I did some checking and activating a Genie mini I bought from Solid Signal did trigger an extension of my contract, so they do keep track of it at some level.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Supramom2000 said:


> We just live way out in the boonies, on acreage. No one is will to run anything out to us unless we were in a large neighborhood that would justify the costs. Spokane itself has all the goodies available. We actually live in Colbert, but that is not even a town, it just has a post office for some reason, thus - our own town name!
> 
> We didn't even get DSL until 2007 I think. Prior to that, it was dial up or satellite.
> 
> ...


I would have never thought of Moses Lake having gang problems. I was there a little over 20 years ago on a business trip and it seemed like a nice place to live. Guess I'll have to rethink this. Thanx.

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

dpeters11 said:


> I've deactivated an owned box, and they never asked for my access card back. Wouldn't think they'd still make me get a new one.


I've never reactivated a box, so I don't really have any idea what happens, just what I've been told. What I've been told is that a deactivated box needs a new card to be activated and an HR on vacation doesn't. All my info came from CSRs. Obviously not the best sources.

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

linuspbmo said:


> I have several owned receivers that I deactivate and then reactivate at will. All it takes is a phone call, no new cards.


But, were they put into vacation status?

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

peds48 said:


> This is interesting because as long as you have a Genie "license " or RVU slot on DirecTV's account, you can move that slot to different clients without notifying DirecTV. I think when it gets "hairy" is that when you get a Genie client, DirecTV is expecting to see another slot added to your account, but then when you order through 3rd party sites like solid signal, you are NOT given them your account number so...... :shrug:


Could these people be any more screwed up? Seems like very little planning goes into the business, they just seem to react to whatever pops up. Gotta give D* credit, tho. Whatever semblance of a business plan they have, they're making a lot of money.

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

carl6 said:


> Yeah, Moses Lake is a small town in a big area. Absolutely double check on everything before making any decisions. Warm to hot in the summer, cold and icy in the winter, flat and barren year round. Big airfield and you'll see all kinds of strange planes fly in and out of there, many military, in test mode. But for a commercial flight you'll end up on a dash 8 flying to Seattle or Spokane for connection.
> 
> Certainly a low cost of living (especially compared to my side of the mountains). Unless there is something specific drawing you to Moses Lake, I would look closer to Supramom, or north of her, on the east side of WA, and probably anyplace 20 or more miles from Seattle proper on the west side of WA (cost and traffic).


I was kinda of enchanted with the place. Seemed as if everyone had an electrically heated pool because of being so close to the dam. That's the reason my company had a site there. They were making silicon wafers for chips and the electricity needed for that was immense. The plant itself was surrounded by step-up transformers and the inside of the plant was so clean it was a bit hard to believe.

I saw a lot of old cars without rust and asked the folks that were hosting our meeting about them. No rust because of the weather. They did rave about playing golf there for many hours a day. Seemed like a nice place to live. Another wrong assumption, I guess.

Rich


----------



## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

Rich said:


> I was kinda of enchanted with the place. Seemed as if everyone had an electrically heated pool because of being so close to the dam. That's the reason my company had a site there. They were making silicon wafers for chips and the electricity needed for that was immense. The plant itself was surrounded by step-up transformers and the inside of the plant was so clean it was a bit hard to believe.
> 
> I saw a lot of old cars without rust and asked the folks that were hosting our meeting about them. No rust because of the weather. They did rave about playing golf there for many hours a day. Seemed like a nice place to live. Another wrong assumption, I guess.
> 
> Rich


That entire area does have plentiful and cheap electricity, especially for large customers. That's why there are so many H U G E data centers in the general area (a friend manages the Dell facility in Quincy). There are certainly some positive aspects to the general area, and I wasn't trying to tell you to not choose it, only to do your research before making decisions. I have not spent enough time there to be aware of gang problems or other things of that nature, but the local news on the west side of the mountains really doesn't provide much coverage for that area. The Spokane locals would cover that (which Supramom gets), so she is probably more aware of what goes on there than I am. I tend to drive through Moses Lake several times a year going one direction or another, but have never spent as much as an overnight there.


----------



## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Joe Tylman said:


> Genie Mini Clients are leased only so if you deactivate one you would have to send it back. Activating the client will add the RVU license to the account regardless of where you get it.


Right, we know this is a fact. but say you have one RVU SLOT in your account. let's also assume you have a C31 client and an RVU TV. in the Genie menu you can move the RVU slot to either RVU device.


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

JosephB said:


> I did some checking and activating a Genie mini I bought from Solid Signal did trigger an extension of my contract, so they do keep track of it at some level.


Adding leased equipment to an account ALWAYS triggers an extension.

"Buying" from any retailer is a misnomer as they're really just collecting a lease entry fee. Conventional wisdom holds that outright purchases happen through MDUs and DIRECTV and I'm not so sure about the MDUs any more.


----------



## JosephB (Nov 14, 2005)

harsh said:


> Adding leased equipment to an account ALWAYS triggers an extension.
> 
> "Buying" from any retailer is a misnomer as they're really just collecting a lease entry fee. Conventional wisdom holds that outright purchases happen through MDUs and DIRECTV and I'm not so sure about the MDUs any more.


Right, I understand that. What we were previously discussing was whether or not you could activate/deactivate Genie clients without having to necessarily send them back to DirecTV, since the whole RVU scheme is somewhat different that activating a full blown receiver. For example, you can activate a TV as an RVU client. Apparently DirecTV discerns the difference when you activate an RVU client.


----------



## otaliema (Aug 9, 2012)

Rich said:


> I've never reactivated a box, so I don't really have any idea what happens, just what I've been told. What I've been told is that a deactivated box needs a new card to be activated and an HR on vacation doesn't. All my info came from CSRs. Obviously not the best sources.
> 
> Rich


Owned vrs leased argument. Owned units when they are disconnected from the account, they are off with return requirement. Unless the unit is off for more than 3 years no new card will be needed and even than it can proly just reactivated if it is found that your card number was recycled by the system Access card team can issue you a new one with out a fee due to it' being D* fault you can't use the unit. There are always exceptions to every rule.
Leased units do have a vaction status that can be used by some agents it prevents a return request but can only be used once a year for upto 185 days than the unit must be reactivated or returned.



JosephB said:


> Right, I understand that. What we were previously discussing was whether or not you could activate/deactivate Genie clients without having to necessarily send them back to DirecTV, since the whole RVU scheme is somewhat different that activating a full blown receiver. For example, you can activate a TV as an RVU client. Apparently DirecTV discerns the difference when you activate an RVU client.


Clients and RVU devices are separated in the system. So if you have RVU TV or other devices (coming soon for 3 years now ) you can activate it and deactivate at will like a owned receiver. No contract as it's not D* hardware being activated, you may need to get a external DECA for some TV's.
Clients are considered receivers that are leased and must remain active at all times so can not be disconnected and reconnected at will and do incur a contract upon activation regardless of purchase location.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

carl6 said:


> That entire area does have plentiful and cheap electricity, especially for large customers. That's why there are so many H U G E data centers in the general area (a friend manages the Dell facility in Quincy). There are certainly some positive aspects to the general area, and I wasn't trying to tell you to not choose it, only to do your research before making decisions. I have not spent enough time there to be aware of gang problems or other things of that nature, but the local news on the west side of the mountains really doesn't provide much coverage for that area. The Spokane locals would cover that (which Supramom gets), so she is probably more aware of what goes on there than I am. I tend to drive through Moses Lake several times a year going one direction or another, but have never spent as much as an overnight there.


I was there for a week. We stayed at the Holiday Inn in Moses Lake. I guess we only saw what the hosts wanted to show us, which was primarily the plant.

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

harsh said:


> Adding leased equipment to an account ALWAYS triggers an extension.
> 
> "Buying" from any retailer is a misnomer as they're really just collecting a lease entry fee. Conventional wisdom holds that outright purchases happen through MDUs and DIRECTV and I'm not so sure about the MDUs any more.


No more of that "have to pay the full price" for the MDU dwellers as far as I know.

Rich


----------



## JosephB (Nov 14, 2005)

otaliema said:


> So if you have RVU TV or other devices (coming soon for 3 years now )


I've got an RVU TV, the only problem is it's my main big TV in the living room and I have other stuff connected to it too, so might as well put the Genie there.

They need to push for RVU client software built into smaller TVs, from 30-ish inches downward. Especially in anything meant for weird spaces like under the counter TVs.


----------



## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

RVU is just an "add on" that gets "thrown in" into the smart features of these TV's. and these features do indeed add quite a few "bucks" to the price tag. So i don't see them selling a 19" LED for $1500


----------



## JosephB (Nov 14, 2005)

peds48 said:


> RVU is just an "add on" that gets "thrown in" into the smart features of these TV's. and these features do indeed add quite a few "bucks" to the price tag. So i don't see them selling a 19" LED for $1500


RVU technology doesn't cost $1500 to add to a TV. Not saying every TV should have it, but it would really take off if some of the higher end panels at smaller sizes had it. Almost no one puts a TV the size of which usually comes with RVU in a bedroom.


----------



## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

JosephB said:


> RVU technology doesn't cost $1500 to add to a TV. Not saying every TV should have it, but it would really take off if some of the higher end panels at smaller sizes had it. Almost no one puts a TV the size of which usually comes with RVU in a bedroom.


I was not implying that either. What I was trying to say was that RVU is not a stand alone feature but rather is bundled with the other smart features that only come with higher end TVs and these companies are not likely to just implement RVU in the cheaper sets as they want their customers to get the expensive TVs


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

peds48 said:


> RVU is just an "add on" that gets "thrown in" into the smart features of these TV's. and these features do indeed add quite a few "bucks" to the price tag. So i don't see them selling a 19" LED for $1500


The problem with RVU from DIRECTV is the support gear that goes along with it. If you do the install the DIRECTV way, you've got a DECA adapter and power supply you have to figure out where to hide and how to power. On a small under-cabinet or countertop TV that becomes a much bigger issue.

The other side of making small TVs RVU compliant is that you don't have a lot of room for the Smart TV hardware and precious little display screen acreage for making a Smart TV usable. You have to expect that someone is going to complain about the text size on their 19" TV when browsing the Internet for recipes.


----------



## JosephB (Nov 14, 2005)

harsh said:


> The problem with RVU from DIRECTV is the support gear that goes along with it. If you do the install the DIRECTV way, you've got a DECA adapter and power supply you have to figure out where to hide and how to power. On a small under-cabinet or countertop TV that becomes a much bigger issue.
> 
> The other side of making small TVs RVU compliant is that you don't have a lot of room for the Smart TV hardware and precious little display screen acreage for making a Smart TV usable. You have to expect that someone is going to complain about the text size on their 19" TV when browsing the Internet for recipes.


In terms of Smart TVs and small TVs, I would envision the small TVs not having any smart functions *except* an RVU client. So, drop the web browser and netflix and whatever else. Also, when it comes to putting the hardware for DECA at the TV, you could always run ethernet to the TV instead of coax. You already have to deal with power for the TV so the power for the DECA isn't insurmountable, and they're not so bad that you can't mount them to the back of the TV with some velcro or 3M mounting strips.


----------



## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

harsh said:


> The problem with RVU from DIRECTV is the support gear that goes along with it. If you do the install the DIRECTV way, you've got a DECA adapter and power supply you have to figure out where to hide and how to power. On a small under-cabinet or countertop TV that becomes a much bigger issue....


An RVU TV needs a network connection (and in DirecTV's implementation that is via a DECA) but who says the coax/ethernet conversion has to happen at the TV? You can put the DECA in different room and just run ethernet to the TV (not to mention all the other "unsupported" options).

In our kitchen we have a 20" Vizio LCD TV with C41 velcro mounted on the back of the TV. A DECA is about 1/3 the size of the C41, so space is not an issue.


----------



## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

harsh said:


> The problem with RVU from DIRECTV is the support gear that goes along with it. If you do the install the DIRECTV way, you've got a DECA adapter and power supply you have to figure out where to hide and how to power. On a small under-cabinet or countertop TV that becomes a much bigger issue.
> 
> .


as others have noted, you don't have to do it the "DirecTV way"


----------



## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

JosephB said:


> In terms of Smart TVs and small TVs, I would envision the small TVs not having any smart functions *except* an RVU client. So, drop the web browser and netflix and whatever else. Also, when it comes to putting the hardware for DECA at the TV, you could always run ethernet to the TV instead of coax. You already have to deal with power for the TV so the power for the DECA isn't insurmountable, and they're not so bad that you can't mount them to the back of the TV with some velcro or 3M mounting strips.


The problem is, that RVU is only supported by DirecTV now. so why make a TV for such small market? would you?

and wouldn't you be upset if you buy an RVU only TV but then lacks the fundamentals on an internet connected TV?


----------



## JosephB (Nov 14, 2005)

peds48 said:


> The problem is, that RVU is only supported by DirecTV now. so why make a TV for such small market? would you?
> 
> and wouldn't you be upset if you buy an RVU only TV but then lacks the fundamentals on an internet connected TV?


Sure, it's a chicken and egg problem in terms of DirecTV being the only provider with RVU servers. That's just the nature of new technology. But, that TV wouldn't be exclusively for the DirecTV market since it would still have HDMI and other inputs, so you're not limiting yourself at all.

And when it comes to "upset" about buying an RVU TV without the other smart features, how would that be any different than buying a TV today that doesn't have smart or internet connected features? I don't see how adding RVU would change that equation. As long as the manufacturer advertises and markets it in an honest way and doesn't imply it's a smart TV, then a buyer shouldn't expect it to be.


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

JosephB said:


> In terms of Smart TVs and small TVs, I would envision the small TVs not having any smart functions *except* an RVU client.


Without a sufficiently powerful Smart TV engine, there is no RVU. It would be akin to putting a DVD theater system in a car and using only the GPS feature. All the cost and limited benefit.

We kind of have to assume that standalone RVU implementation isn't cheap given that the lease entry fee of a Genie Mini is the same as that of a full-fledged HD satellite receiver. It would be a hard sell indeed to add 30-50% to the cost of the TV for a market that remains microscopic.


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

JosephB said:


> Sure, it's a chicken and egg problem in terms of DirecTV being the only provider with RVU servers.


I point out again that DIRECTV, as yet, doesn't offer an approved RVU server; a requirement of bearing the mark.


----------



## JosephB (Nov 14, 2005)

harsh said:


> Without a sufficiently powerful Smart TV engine, there is no RVU. It would be akin to putting a DVD theater system in a car and using only the GPS feature. All the cost and limited benefit.
> 
> We kind of have to assume that standalone RVU implementation isn't cheap given that the lease entry fee of a Genie Mini is the same as that of a full-fledged HD satellite receiver. It would be a hard sell indeed to add 30-50% to the cost of the TV for a market that remains microscopic.


Just because the lease entry fee for the mini is the same as, say an H25, doesn't mean they have the same costs. They may indeed, but that is not a valid data point to use to make that assumption. DirecTV may simply be willing to take more of a "loss" on the H25. It's entirely possible, but we simply don't know. It's also not a valid assumption that to add RVU to a TV without any other smart TV functions would either a) cost just as much as adding all the smart TV functions or b) that it costs the same as building a C31 (or equivalent). The truth is none of us here really know the costs of building a TV.



harsh said:


> I point out again that DIRECTV, as yet, doesn't offer an approved RVU server; a requirement of bearing the mark.


You're just splitting hairs here. The Genie is an RVU server and I assume by your continued assertion about this point, it's not certified, yet it is on the market and serving RVU clients and I doubt any CE company would ignore the Genie when considering RVU plans (as obviously they haven't, since there are RVU TVs on the market)


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

peds48 said:


> as others have noted, you don't have to do it the "DirecTV way"


Sacrilege! 

DIRECTV's installers don't have much choice in the matter and you know how cherished having a "supported installation" is. This may change if wireless RVU delivery solutions become widely available.


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

JosephB said:


> Just because the lease entry fee for the mini is the same as, say an H25, doesn't mean they have the same costs. They may indeed, but that is not a valid data point to use to make that assumption. DirecTV may simply be willing to take more of a "loss" on the H25.


We know from history that the lease entry fee is not far from the hardware cost.

Back in the day, DIRECTV used to discuss the cost of the HR2x series and how each design change they made impacted it. They were very proud of the cost reductions they made in going from the HR20 to the HR21. Old timers will remember when the lease entry fee of the HR20 was $299 and the cost was right around there.


----------



## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Just one data point that refutes a few blanket statements: I have a 32" Samsung LED Smart TV that is RVU capable. I have it hooked up via a C41. The TV is neither bigger nor smaller than "ignorant" sets, and the placement and size of the direcTV unit is no problem whatsoever. It wasn't that much more expensive than "stupid" sets.


----------



## JosephB (Nov 14, 2005)

Laxguy said:


> Just one data point that refutes a few blanket statements: I have a 32" Samsung LED Smart TV that is RVU capable. I have it hooked up via a C41. The TV is neither bigger nor smaller than "ignorant" sets, and the placement and size of the direcTV unit is no problem whatsoever. It wasn't that much more expensive than "stupid" sets.


Right. That's actually the size that I would expect to have an RVU, it's the size you'd probably have in a bedroom for example, not a 50-60" TV. I think over time they will push down further and deeper into product lines into smaller and more niche TVs.


----------



## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

I hope so! Though I'd rather have the DirecTV boxes for now. And, yes, it's in the BR.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

JosephB said:


> Right. That's actually the size that I would expect to have an RVU, _*it's the size you'd probably have in a bedroom*_ for example, not a 50-60" TV. I think over time they will push down further and deeper into product lines into smaller and more niche TVs.


I've got a feeling a lot of us have 50-60" TVs in our bedrooms. Two of our bedrooms have 50" TVs in them. When the prices drop, I plan to buy a new TV and will put my main 60" TV in the master bedroom.

Rich


----------



## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Rich said:


> I've got a feeling a lot of us have 50-60" TVs in our bedrooms. Two of our bedrooms have 50" TVs in them. When the prices drop, I plan to buy a new TV and will put my main 60" TV in the master bedroom.
> 
> Rich


Yup, right now I have a 55" in the MB


----------



## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Laxguy said:


> Just one data point that refutes a few blanket statements: I have a 32" Samsung LED Smart TV that is RVU capable. I have it hooked up via a C41. The TV is neither bigger nor smaller than "ignorant" sets, and the placement and size of the direcTV unit is no problem whatsoever. It wasn't that much more expensive than "stupid" sets.


While is "wasn't not much more expensive" it does add to the price tag.


----------



## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

harsh said:


> Sacrilege!
> 
> DIRECTV's installers don't have much choice in the matter and you know how cherished having a "supported installation" is. This may change if wireless RVU delivery solutions become widely available.


I siad, "you" not "them"


----------



## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

JosephB said:


> Sure, it's a chicken and egg problem in terms of DirecTV being the only provider with RVU servers. That's just the nature of new technology. But, that TV wouldn't be exclusively for the DirecTV market since it would still have HDMI and other inputs, so you're not limiting yourself at all.
> 
> And when it comes to "upset" about buying an RVU TV without the other smart features, how would that be any different than buying a TV today that doesn't have smart or internet connected features? I don't see how adding RVU would change that equation. As long as the manufacturer advertises and markets it in an honest way and doesn't imply it's a smart TV, then a buyer shouldn't expect it to be.


Yes you are. you will be paying for something that you might not use, if you have cable as your provider.

This is akin the TVs that came with built in receivers. it was not a success


----------



## JosephB (Nov 14, 2005)

Rich said:


> I've got a feeling a lot of us have 50-60" TVs in our bedrooms. Two of our bedrooms have 50" TVs in them. When the prices drop, I plan to buy a new TV and will put my main 60" TV in the master bedroom.
> 
> Rich


Yes, but you are the type of person that would post on a message board on the internet about a specific satellite provider. I bet the >40" TV in the Bedroom population is in the single digits or less.


----------



## JosephB (Nov 14, 2005)

peds48 said:


> Yes you are. you will be paying for something that you might not use, if you have cable as your provider.
> 
> This is akin the TVs that came with built in receivers. it was not a success


Every TV has an ATSC tuner but hardly anyone uses them. You're not limiting yourself to anything if you get a TV with RVU and don't use it. I think this discussion has lost my original point, anyway, so this will be my last post about it.


----------



## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

peds48 said:


> Yup, right now I have a 55" in the MB


46" Panny plasma in my MB....


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

JosephB said:


> Yes, but you are the type of person that would post on a message board on the internet about a specific satellite provider. I bet the >40" TV in the Bedroom population is in the single digits or less.


Yeah, I keep forgetting we are a minority. You're probably right.

Rich


----------



## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

JosephB said:


> Yes, but you are the type of person that would post on a message board on the internet about a specific satellite provider. I bet the >40" TV in the Bedroom population is in the single digits or less.


Being in thousands of peoples homes, I can tell that folks do not go by sizes but rather what they get is the "best"of what they can afford.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

peds48 said:


> Being in thousands of peoples homes, I can tell that folks do not go by sizes but rather what they get is the "best"of what they can afford.


So, what sizes do you see? Can you give us a "feel" for the average size?

Rich


----------



## Bill Broderick (Aug 25, 2006)

peds48 said:


> Being in thousands of peoples homes, I can tell that folks do not go by sizes but rather what they get is the "best"of what they can afford.


In my case, for the bedrooms, it was "biggest that can fit inside the cabinets.


----------



## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

So, what sizes do you see? Can you give us a "feel" for the average size?

Rich
mostly between 40" and 50" But there are many with smaller sets but you can tell it was because they could not afford anything bigger or better. Some of these folks even gets bigger "off brands" flat panels. I have seen weird brands


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

In my case, for the bedrooms, it was "biggest that can fit inside the cabinets.
yup, since this a lot. Also seen where folks remove doors from cabinets to fit even bigger sets


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

I can afford whatever in the BR, but so far what seems to work best is a small set, as I can put my head about two feet away and watch clearly without glasses. That's a big plus for me. Right now I have a 32" Sammy and may replace it with an even smaller Sony. 

The ideal screen size is about 24". (!) That's based solely on pixel density, eye resolving power, utilizing an uncomfortably close viewing distance for most. There are other, overriding factors that cause larger sets to be the majority.


----------



## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

> *How expensive is 'whole house' for 6 TV's?*


$3.00 per month. But there will be a one-time charge to you to change over to SWM. This will vary.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

peds48 said:


> mostly between 40" and 50" But there are many with smaller sets but you can tell it was because they could not afford anything bigger or better. Some of these folks even gets bigger "off brands" flat panels. I have seen weird brands
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


Kinda what I figured. Thanx. Handy having you around, it is.

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Laxguy said:


> I can afford whatever in the BR, but so far what seems to work best is a small set, as I can put my head about two feet away and watch clearly without glasses. That's a big plus for me. Right now I have a 32" Sammy and may replace it with an even smaller Sony.
> 
> The ideal screen size is about 24". (!) That's based solely on pixel density, eye resolving power, utilizing an uncomfortably close viewing distance for most. There are other, overriding factors that cause larger sets to be the majority.


I used to have a "big" Mitsubishi 26" CRT right by my bed and I still couldn't see it without glasses.

Rich


----------



## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

I'm thinking of removing one stem from an older pair so I can lie on my side comfortably and view a larger set from a distance. 
Don't know how many can comfortably view on their side, but after a few seconds' adjustment, it doesn't bother me.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Laxguy said:


> I'm thinking of removing one stem from an older pair so I can lie on my side comfortably and view a larger set from a distance.
> Don't know how many can comfortably view on their side, but after a few seconds' adjustment, it doesn't bother me.


Well, I've got a 50" in my bedroom and my glasses don't bother me. I've been wearing them since the 3rd grade and most of the time I don't even know I've got them on.

I was lucky enough to be the first person in my class to get glasses, boy oh boy, can kids be cruel.

Rich


----------

