# No iPhone 5? thread



## trdrjeff

Will be surprising if the Sprint exclusive rumor is true. We shall find out soon I guess...


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## dpeters11

35 minutes in and a snoozefest so far...


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## Alan Gordon

iOS 5 on Wednesday, October 12 (YAY!!!)...

~Alan


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## dpeters11

True, that was the one new piece of info along with iTunes Match other than the new Greeting card app. Oh and no Nike+ sensors needed anymore....


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## Alan Gordon

dpeters11 said:


> True, that was the one new piece of info along with iTunes Match other than the new Greeting card app. Oh and no Nike+ sensors needed anymore....


iTunes Match was already known.... or did you mean a start-up date?

While rumored, Find My Friends is sorta new.

~Alan


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## dpeters11

Yeah I meant date. I wonder how many will get it to get new versions of their ill gotten Napster downloads. That story will be buried, the Napster purchase


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## naijai

trdrjeff said:


> Will be surprising if the Sprint exclusive rumor is true. We shall find out soon I guess...


 Doubtful since that would really limit the market for the phone to few million instead of 100's of millions on At&t, Verizon & Sprint and 1 million on T-mobile


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## Alan Gordon

naijai said:


> Doubtful since that would really limit the market for the phone to few million instead of 100's of millions on At&t, Verizon & Sprint and 1 million on T-mobile


The rumors were that Sprint paid Apple a ton of money to have it exclusive only for the holidays.

No mention of an iPhone 5 yet, just the 4s... which may very well be all there is.

~Alan


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## bobukcat

Alan Gordon said:


> iTunes Match was already known.... or did you mean a start-up date?
> 
> While rumored, Find My Friends is sorta new.
> 
> ~Alan


If they hadn't blocked Latitude users could have been using very similar functionality for years already, and not just with other iOS users.


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## hilmar2k

iPhone 4S coming to AT&T, VZW, and Sprint on October 14th.


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## Alan Gordon

bobukcat said:


> If they hadn't blocked Latitude users could have been using very similar functionality for years already, and not just with other iOS users.


I have Latitude on my phone, but I'll be honest, I never go anywhere, so it's of no interest to me.

I can see where it'd be cool for others though...

~Alan


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## bobukcat

Alan Gordon said:


> I have Latitude on my phone, but I'll be honest, I never go anywhere, so it's of no interest to me.
> 
> I can see where it'd be cool for others though...
> 
> ~Alan


I've used it for work before, couldn't find a job site because it was still under construction and didn't have an address yet. My buddy was there working so I just went to Latitude layer on Google Maps, found him and hit navigate to. Very easy and convenient.


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## Alan Gordon

bobukcat said:


> I've used it for work before, couldn't find a job site because it was still under construction and didn't have an address yet. My buddy was there working so I just went to Latitude layer on Google Maps, found him and hit navigate to. Very easy and convenient.


Yep... like I said, cool feature for some. 

~Alan


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## Alan Gordon

iPhone 4s this month.

No iPhone 5 announcement.

~Alan


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## hilmar2k

To answer the question asked in the thread title...

Maybe that's because there's no iPhone 5.


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## naijai

Alan Gordon said:


> The rumors were that Sprint paid Apple a ton of money to have it exclusive only for the holidays.
> 
> No mention of an iPhone 5 yet, just the 4s... which may very well be all there is.
> 
> ~Alan


That would still upset a larger base on AT&T and not to talk about those on Verizon who have shunned the regular 4 for the 4S


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## bobukcat

Alan Gordon said:


> Yep... like I said, cool feature for some.
> 
> ~Alan


I guess I missed it when they finally allowed the app for ios devices - have to get my iPhone carrying friends on board with that one.


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## trdrjeff

hilmar2k said:


> To answer the question asked in the thread title...
> 
> Maybe that's because there's no iPhone 5.


:lol: I guess all the tech blogs have egg on their face


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## Alan Gordon

hilmar2k said:


> To answer the question asked in the thread title...
> 
> Maybe that's because there's no iPhone 5.


Yet...

Next year, this thread could be appropriate.

~Alan


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## Alan Gordon

naijai said:


> That would still upset a larger base on AT&T and not to talk about those on Verizon who have shunned the regular 4 for the 4S


A five month delay might tick people off, but probably not that bad.

I'd gladly trade my Android phone for a 4s, but sadly, I'm not eligible for another phone until July... UGH! 

~Alan


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## naijai

trdrjeff said:


> :lol: I guess all the tech blogs have egg on their face


Actually i think AT&T & Apple Punk'd the blogs with all the iphone 5 cases that showed up all over the place


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## hilmar2k

trdrjeff said:


> :lol: I guess all the tech blogs have egg on their face


If you remove the question mark, the thread title works perfectly.


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## djlong

I've been with Verizon Wireless since approximately 1990.

I'll probably be going to Sprint for a pair of iPhones (4S) and perhaps a new phone for my daughter. I expect to save a chunk of money every month on my 3-line family plan and I'll get back to unlimited data.


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## RasputinAXP

I'll wave at the iPhone folks from my Nexus Prime on VZW.


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## hilmar2k

RasputinAXP said:


> I'll wave at the iPhone folks from my Nexus Prime on VZW.


Waiting for that phone myself.


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## bobukcat

Seriously, the lack of anything that can remotely be called 4G on this phone has to be considered a disappointment by even the most loyal ifans, doesn't it?? I mean they don't even have HSPA+21 on the AT&T version, that certainly surprised me! 

I'm an unabashed Android fan but the one thing I do envy from the iPhone is the camera and it looks like they made it even better in the 4S. Motorola Mobility, HTC and even Samsung (although the camera on the GSII is supposed to be very good) need to learn that more megapixels on the sensor don't matter, its the quality of the sensor, optics and s/w that make a difference.


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## macwinlin

So, about Siri - Is this only available on the 4S because of hardware or will this be included in iOS 5?


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## Alan Gordon

bobukcat said:


> Seriously, the lack of anything that can remotely be called 4G on this phone has to be considered a disappointment by even the most loyal ifans, doesn't it?? I mean they don't even have HSPA+21 on the AT&T version, that certainly surprised me!


I have Verizon, and 4G (LTE) is most likely 2-3 years away from me, so it doesn't matter to me. Sprint doesn't offer 3G here (at my home), and AT&T just started offering 3G for the first time this year... so 4G is not that big of a deal to me personally.

While I'm quite pleased with the camera in my Samsung phone, I agree, the new camera in the iPhone 4s looks SWEET!!

~Alan


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## klang

bobukcat said:


> Seriously, the lack of anything that can remotely be called 4G on this phone has to be considered a disappointment by even the most loyal ifans, doesn't it?? I mean they don't even have HSPA+21 on the AT&T version, that certainly surprised me!


News or rumor a couple months ago was that the LTE chips just weren't going to be available until after the first of the year. I suspect that is why they have held off on the iPhone 5.

I am looking forward to iOS 5 on October 12. That I was happy to hear. I can't see upgrading my 4 to a 4s unless I need a replacement for some other reason.


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## dpeters11

macwinlin said:


> So, about Siri - Is this only available on the 4S because of hardware or will this be included in iOS 5?


Reports I see are 4S only. Now, whether it's because of the new processor or just because Apple says so is a different story.

However, I will say that while it was possible to enable some iPhone 3GS features on a jailbroken 3G, it wasn't always a great experience.

As for 4G, from the phones I've seen, battery takes a big hit.


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## Stuart Sweet

I'll stay with my iPhone4. I think the OS is more important than the hardware, unless the OS just bogs down the hardware too much.


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## macwinlin

dpeters11 said:


> However, I will say that while it was possible to enable some iPhone 3GS features on a jailbroken 3G, it wasn't always a great experience.


True, but I'm thinking of when iOS 4 was released and 3GGS' got the same features unless unavailable because of hardware restrictions, so thats why I was asking. Like you, I've seen reports today that talk about it with the 4S.

I'd like to give it a try on October 12, but I guess it won't happen? I don't think i'll upgrade to the 4S for it or the camera. The main reason I upgraded from the 3GS to 4 was the retina display, so I'll wait for a more significant change before I shell out the moneh.


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## dpeters11

Stuart Sweet said:


> I'll stay with my iPhone4. I think the OS is more important than the hardware, unless the OS just bogs down the hardware too much.


I'm going to recommend iPhone 4 users hold off. 3GS and older, it is a good upgrade.

For first time buyers, the 3GS has too high of a cost. I'll recommend 4s generally.


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## Alan Gordon

Stuart Sweet said:


> I'll stay with my iPhone4. I think the OS is more important than the hardware, unless the OS just bogs down the hardware too much.


I suspect there will be quite a few people who stick with the iPhone 4...

I think the 4s adds quite a few decent features with the memory and camera, and possibly usage if the call quality and download speeds truly are improved/sped up... but I doubt many will be running out to spend the money on the upgrade.

If I was eligible for a new phone (prior to July, 2012), I'd probably get the 4s over the 8gb iPhone 4 simply for the camera and bigger storage capacity, as I like having space for recorded movies (that will most likely take up more space on the phone than my Fascinate since the 4s will record 1080p).

~Alan


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## Stuart Sweet

So now I'm reading that Siri will only be on iPhone 4S. I'd like the ability to more effectively read and compose emails while on the road. Pulling off to the shoulder is a pain. But it's still not enough to make me want to upgrade. I've got about 9 months left on my current contract and I think I'll be able to ride it out.


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## Alan Gordon

Stuart Sweet said:


> So now I'm reading that Siri will only be on iPhone 4S. I'd like the ability to more effectively read and compose emails while on the road. Pulling off to the shoulder is a pain. But it's still not enough to make me want to upgrade. I've got about 9 months left on my current contract and I think I'll be able to ride it out.


Aah... but think about it this way... in 9 months, it'll only be 3 months til the iPhone 5 (or iPhone 4z)... so can you wait 12 months?! 

~Alan<~~~~~~~~~~~Will have to decide in July if he wants to deal with his phone for another 3 months and wait on the iPhone 5 (or iPhone 4z), or get a iPhone 4s...


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## bobukcat

Stuart Sweet said:


> So now I'm reading that Siri will only be on iPhone 4S. I'd like the ability to more effectively read and compose emails while on the road. Pulling off to the shoulder is a pain. But it's still not enough to make me want to upgrade. I've got about 9 months left on my current contract and I think I'll be able to ride it out.


I look forward to seeing how good it is at those things. The speech to text on my Bionic works pretty well until I start using technical terms and acronyms and then it, and every other voice recognition system I've ever used, gets very confused. Considering very, very few of my e-mails lack technical terms, acronyms, model and part numbers I find it to be pretty useless. It does work well for quick text messages of a social nature but that's about it.


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## Alan Gordon

bobukcat said:


> I look forward to seeing how good it is at those things. The speech to text on my Bionic works pretty well until I start using technical terms and acronyms and then it, and every other voice recognition system I've ever used, gets very confused. Considering very, very few of my e-mails lack technical terms, acronyms, model and part numbers I find it to be pretty useless. It does work well for quick text messages of a social nature but that's about it.


I started to say "try using voice software with a Southern accent," then I remembered you're from Kentucky, so you may already have an idea...  

That being said, I now believe Siri to be the precursor of Skynet. :eek2: 

~Alan


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## bobukcat

klang said:


> News or rumor a couple months ago was that the LTE chips just weren't going to be available until after the first of the year. I suspect that is why they have held off on the iPhone 5.
> 
> I am looking forward to iOS 5 on October 12. That I was happy to hear. I can't see upgrading my 4 to a 4s unless I need a replacement for some other reason.


LTE chipsets are certainly already available as there are three phones now on VZW that include them but I'm sure that size, getting them to work with the A5 chip-set and battery consumption were serious issues. Supply in Apple's required numbers may have been an issue as well. As for battery life - it does take a hit but for me speed > battery life as long as it's still reasonable and if I turn LTE off on my Bionic I can get 10+ hours of talk time - thankfully I almost never need that.


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## bobukcat

Alan Gordon said:


> I started to say "try using voice software with a Southern accent," then I remembered you're from Kentucky, so you may already have an idea...
> 
> That being said, I now believe Siri to be the precursor of Skynet. :eek2:
> 
> ~Alan


Surprisingly or not I find that it almost always gets "y'all" correct. 

What I have noticed, driving a 12 year old full size pickup with fairly large tires and a moonroof, is that road noise at highway speeds often creates havoc with it. Although the Bionic is better than my OG Droid was for some reason.


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## hdtvfan0001

After the announcement, their stock took an uncharacteristic nosedive down over $12. If it wasn't for the general stockmarket rally today (also unusual), it would have been down perhaps double that...it finished down $2.10.

Hype....let me introduce you to Dud.

Even some Kookaid drinkers tasted the staleness in this one.


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## klang

bobukcat said:


> LTE chipsets are certainly already available as there are three phones now on VZW that include them but I'm sure that size, getting them to work with the A5 chip-set and battery consumption were serious issues. Supply in Apple's required numbers may have been an issue as well. As for battery life - it does take a hit but for me speed > battery life as long as it's still reasonable and if I turn LTE off on my Bionic I can get 10+ hours of talk time - thankfully I almost never need that.


This is what I remember reading earlier.


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## Chris Blount

hdtvfan0001 said:


> After the announcement, their stock took an uncharacteristic nosedive down over $12. If it wasn't for the general stockmarket rally today (also unusual), it would have been down perhaps double that...it finished down $2.10.
> 
> Hype....let me introduce you to Dud.
> 
> Even some Kookaid drinkers tasted the staleness in this one.


Nope, not a dud. Between the speed increase, the camera and the voice recognition, it's a worthy entry into the market. Far from a dud.


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## hilmar2k

Chris Blount said:


> Nope, not a dud. Between the speed increase, the camera and the voice recognition, it's a worthy entry into the market. Far from a dud.


It certainly is in comparison to the rumored (and thus far nonexistent) iPhone 5. Perception is it's a dud, and on Wall Street, perception is reality.


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## hdtvfan0001

Chris Blount said:


> Nope, not a dud. Between the speed increase, the camera and the voice recognition, it's a worthy entry into the market. Far from a dud.


I guess we'll just have to see how folks stampede to buy them in the next few months then...

I'd be willing to wager that simply doesn't happen.


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## Tom Robertson

hilmar2k said:


> It certainly is in comparison to the rumored (and thus far nonexistent) iPhone 5. Perception is it's a dud, and on Wall Street, perception is reality.


Was there anything in the speculated iPhone 5 that wasn't delivered today?
iOS 5 - Check
iCloud - Check
World phone - Check
Cameras - Check
Dual CPU - Check
No LTE - Check

The only hoped part was T-Mobile--by us T-(im)mobile users.

Cheers,
Tom


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## Sixto

Still the best all around phone in the world. Hardware and Software.

I'm somewhat glad the case is the same, I like my Luxe Lean case and that I can stand the iPhone4 up.

iMessage, super camera, voice assist, longer battery life, dual-core/7x graphics, true Verizon world phone ... all great stuff.


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## hilmar2k

Tom Robertson said:


> Was there anything in the speculated iPhone 5 that wasn't delivered today?
> iOS 5 - Check
> iCloud - Check
> World phone - Check
> Cameras - Check
> Dual CPU - Check
> No LTE - Check
> 
> The only hoped part was T-Mobile--by us T-(im)mobile users.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


Larger screen
Better form factor
1GB RAM
NFC
4G

That's a lot.


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## Reaper

I didn't see a burning need to upgrade from the 3GS to the 4 and the same is true from the 4 to the 4S (or even from the 3GS to the 4S). Sure, the faster processing and better camera would be nice, but the 3GS and 4 will still get the sweet IOS 5 improvements. With no larger screen and no 4G, why upgrade? This is a big misstep by Apple IMHO, and it's months late to boot.


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## Chris Blount

hilmar2k said:


> Larger screen
> Better form factor
> 1GB RAM
> NFC
> 4G
> 
> That's a lot.


Larger screen - Don't want that in a phone. I have the iPad for that.
Better form factor - Form factor is fine the way it is.
1GB RAM - Why?
NFC - Don't need it right now and it's not all that popular at the moment.
4G - What is 4G? Speed? According to Apple the iPhone 4S will be just as fast (but that remains to be seen in real world application)


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## dpeters11

"Chris Blount" said:


> 4G - What is 4G? Speed? According to Apple the iPhone 4S will be just as fast (but that remains to be seen in real world application)


Faster on one carrier only.


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## Chris Blount

hdtvfan0001 said:
 

> I guess we'll just have to see how folks stampede to buy them in the next few months then...
> 
> I'd be willing to wager that simply doesn't happen.


You would lose that wager. There were lines for the 3GS just like there will be lines for the 4S. There are plenty of Appleheads to go around.


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## davring

Reaper said:


> I didn't see a burning need to upgrade from the 3GS to the 4 and the same is true from the 4 to the 4S (or even from the 3GS to the 4S). Sure, the faster processing and better camera would be nice, but the 3GS and 4 will still get the sweet IOS 5 improvements. With no larger screen and no 4G, why upgrade? This is a big misstep by Apple IMHO, and it's months late to boot.


Ditto


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## harsh

hdtvfan0001 said:


> After the announcement, their stock took an uncharacteristic nosedive down over $12.


Nosedives are relatively common during and after Apple product announcements. This was one of the bigger dumps in recent memory. In the two days after the iPad was announced, the stock value dropped $14/share (~7%). There are several examples in the Macintosh line that precipitated similar stock value beatings.

It is pretty hard to live up to the hype that the Apple zealots create. I like to think that it is because there's so much room for improvement.


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## hilmar2k

Chris Blount said:


> Larger screen - Don't want that in a phone. I have the iPad for that.
> Better form factor - Form factor is fine the way it is.
> 1GB RAM - Why?
> NFC - Don't need it right now and it's not all that popular at the moment.
> 4G - What is 4G? Speed? According to Apple the iPhone 4S will be just as fast (but that remains to be seen in real world application)


The question wasn't what you wanted, but what was rumored to be forthcoming that was not delivered.

Larger screen - highly desired upgrade
Better form factor - most people seem to think that the 4 was a step backward from the 3GS in this regard
1GB RAM - You really quesiton this?
NFC - I agree, no big deal
4G - The 4S is nowhere near 4G, it doesn't even max out 3G.

To further the point, this is from CNET.com



> Failing to live up to the hype, Apple announces the iPhone 4S to disappointed sighs around the world. It boasts hot new features, but is that enough?


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## hilmar2k

dpeters11 said:


> Faster on one carrier only.


And not even as fast as that one carrier maxes out at.


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## dennisj00

The media can't stand that they missed it completely! So there will be plenty of naysayers.

Just get in line for deliveries! We'll pass on this one with our iP4s.


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## RasputinAXP

Does AT&T even have HSPA+ in wide release? I know TMo does, and my wife's Mytouch 3G Slide from over a year ago has plenty of HSPA+ coverage...


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## hdtvfan0001

hilmar2k said:


> The question wasn't what you wanted, but what was rumored to be forthcoming that was not delivered.
> 
> Larger screen - highly desired upgrade
> Better form factor - most people seem to think that the 4 was a step backward from the 3GS in this regard
> 1GB RAM - You really quesiton this?
> NFC - I agree, no big deal
> 4G - The 4S is nowhere near 4G, it doesn't even max out 3G.
> 
> To further the point, this is from CNET.com


Others seem to share that view:

http://bottomline.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/10/04/8151910-apple-disappoints-fans-with-modest-iphone-4-update


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## braven

I'll be upgrading my 4 to a 4s on December 11th. The lack of 4G means absolutely nothing to me. We're years away from 4G in my area as it is.


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## Alan Gordon

hilmar2k said:


> Larger screen
> Better form factor
> 1GB RAM
> NFC
> 4G
> 
> That's a lot.


I admittedly like the 4-inch screen on my phone for apps and the like, but for phone factor, I like the iPhone's current size. It's a trade-off I guess...

I don't have any issue with the current form factor.

1GB of RAM?! It's unknown what it will have (though rumored to be the same 512mb). It's it as fast as my iPad 2, I don't really see the big deal about RAM. It's not how much RAM is used, but how efficiently it's used, and my iPad 2 does that very well... it runs much faster than my old desktop with 4GB of RAM.

NFC - not really interested.

4G - not really interested at this time. In a few years, I will be.

~Alan


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## djlong

Ok, I've had time to review everything AND stop at the Sprint store to see what their plans cost.

Here's how it breaks down for me (as I said, I've been with Verizon Wireless for 21 years).

Right off the bat, my 3-line family plan is going to save me at least $30/mo and that's with my daughter getting a new smartphone. If she gets an 'ordinary' phone and if I don't get the 'insurance' (my AmEx card will double the warranty) I could save up to $60/mo *and* more since Sprint apparently offers me a 15% discount because of where I work.

That's compelling. Now, the features...
Larger screen - would have been nice.
Better form factor - I disagree. The iPhone 4 seems to be pretty good - better than what I have now (HTC Touch Pro 2)
1GB RAM - do we really know how much is in there?
NFC - I could lose my phone. I don't want to lose my wallet along with it.
LTE/4G - don't need it. Don't want it. The battery drain is a showstopper for me. Also, for the most part, the data that I want from a smartphone is smaller. I will NOT be streaming movies to a *phone*. 3G is enough to handle audio (like Pandora or the SiriusXM app)and that's the most I'd use.
Siri - This is the "killer app" to me - the way it's integrated into everything.. Saying "Wake me up at 6am tomorrow" to set an alarm is unreal.
iOS 5 - I've heard nothing but good things about this.
iCloud - Not an issue for me.
World phone - This IS an issue for me and I'm glad it's in there.
Cameras - I have no idea how they get all that in there. This shapes up to be an incredible casual camera.
Dual CPU - THIS is important as future apps may be more CPU-intensive.

I have to say there seem to be enough reasons for me to move. To be honest, I wish I could stay with Verizon but, on top of everything else, Sprint is keeping their TRUE unlimited data plan - and it's FAR cheaper than Verizon's.

I can't imagine how much money I've given to Verizon Wireless over these 21 years. My bill is around $230 these days and has been at that level for about 4 years. Their insistence on nickel-and-diming me until it's no longer nickels and dimes has lost me as a customer. Not that my $2800/year is going to do a lot to their bottom line - but just writing that amount makes me angrier about having taken their $30 larceny just because your phone CAN access the internet for this long.


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## dpeters11

Gazelle is offering $186 for an AT&T iPhone 4 16gb in good condition, $154 for Verizon.

Sure someone can get more on Craigslist maybe, but dealing with the emails from the people out of town that have a "buyer" etc is a big pain.


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## hilmar2k

You guys are all missing the point of my list of "missing" features. It wasn't about what features you wanted, but it was in response to a post asking what was rumored but not delivered. The bottom line is that the iPhone 4S is a letdown, a huge letdown, for most people. It is far from the quantum leap forward that most were expecting/hoping for. 

Look, it's a nice little phone. But most people expected the new iPhone to compete harward-wise more closely with the latest (and soon to be released) Android phones, and it doesn't. Not iPhone bashing at all, so save the hate posts, just pointing out facts.


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## Sixto

hilmar2k said:


> You guys are all missing the point of my list of "missing" features. It wasn't about what features you wanted, but it was in response to a post asking what was rumored but not delivered. The bottom line is that the iPhone 4S is a letdown, a huge letdown, for most people. It is far from the quantum leap forward that most were expecting/hoping for.
> 
> Look, it's a nice little phone. But most people expected the new iPhone to compete harward-wise more closely with the latest (and soon to be released) Android phones, and it doesn't. Not iPhone bashing at all, so save the hate posts, just pointing out facts.


That's fair.

Thinking they're waiting for the newer LTE chipset before they go aluminum back, thin, and bigger screen. Maybe next June.

I'm thinking that the delay (June to October) was all software related.


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## Chris Blount

hilmar2k said:


> The bottom line is that the iPhone 4S is a letdown, a huge letdown, for most people.


Which "most people" are you referring to?


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## Alan Gordon

hilmar2k said:


> You guys are all missing the point of my list of "missing" features. It wasn't about what features you wanted, but it was in response to a post asking what was rumored but not delivered. The bottom line is that the iPhone 4S is a letdown, a huge letdown, for most people. It is far from the quantum leap forward that most were expecting/hoping for.
> 
> Look, it's a nice little phone. But most people expected the new iPhone to compete harward-wise more closely with the latest (and soon to be released) Android phones, and it doesn't. Not iPhone bashing at all, so save the hate posts, just pointing out facts.


Aside from a potentially bigger screen and different form factor, most of the rumors you listed a few posts back have been pretty much ruled out for months now.

I also think that you can't fault a company for failing to deliver on rumors...

Some of the upcoming Android phones have some great specs, but I'll be honest, I'm more impressed with reliability than specs. My Android phone is plenty capable for me, but I'm disappointed with the reliability and battery life.

If Apple manages to release a phone with the reliability and battery life of my iPad 2, with the upgrades mentioned today, I'll consider that a WIN!

~Alan


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## WERA689

The way I see this announcement, is that Apple simply wasn't prepared for the level of competition they now face from Android and even W7 phones. The rate at which the rest of the market is advancing is not the way Apple has done things in the past...a way which will not work for them in the current market. Their current hardware model will leave them further and further behind the rest of the market unless they shift gears and up their pace of innovation.


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## Sixto

Hmmm. I'm viewing Apple as leading with their ecosystem and just slick/sick compelling cool stuff.

I'm really looking forward to talking to Siri, leveraging iCloud to share stuff (especially photos) between all of my devices including the other iPhones/iPads in the house, iMessage will be great to be able to message from the iPad, the camera (and software) and 1080p recording is perfect, the iTunes Matching, ... the list goes on and on.

Yep, a 4+ inch screen would simply just blow the doors off, but man they got some great stuff.

I moved from the Blackberry platform, one family member moved before me, and the rest will now get the 4S. (actually I'll get the 4S  and the iPhone4 rolls down hill )

This is great.


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## Groundhog45

What is the "NFC"?


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## Sixto

Groundhog45 said:


> What is the "NFC"?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near_field_communication


----------



## Groundhog45

Sixto said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near_field_communication


Thanks. I can see some potential problems with that unless you can tightly control it.


----------



## Alan Gordon

WERA689 said:


> The way I see this announcement, is that Apple simply wasn't prepared for the level of competition they now face from Android and even W7 phones. The rate at which the rest of the market is advancing is not the way Apple has done things in the past...a way which will not work for them in the current market. Their current hardware model will leave them further and further behind the rest of the market unless they shift gears and up their pace of innovation.


While I'm not one to stand in the way of progress, I don't personally care for the way Android handset makers release a new phone every few months... at least it feels that way anyway.

Yes, I realize that most non-techies won't know that in a few months, their brand new phone will be a dinosaur. I realize that's an exaggeration, but with the products being as expensive as they are, and most people only able to upgrade every two years, that the pace is a little too fast...

~Alan


----------



## WERA689

Alan Gordon said:


> While I'm not one to stand in the way of progress, I don't personally care for the way Android handset makers release a new phone every few months... at least it feels that way anyway.
> 
> Yes, I realize that most non-techies won't know that in a few months, their brand new phone will be a dinosaur. I realize that's an exaggeration, but with the products being as expensive as they are, and most people only able to upgrade every two years, that the pace is a little too fast...
> 
> ~Alan


I can't necessarily disagree with you about the "pace", but the fact remains that regarding advances in handset technology, Android is now leading the field. And I say that as an Android owner that has carefully chosen his devices with an eye towards maximum return on investment.

I started with the NexusOne, which set the bar at the time, and is still a very viable and relevant device over two years later. And I followed it with the Atrix 4G...the first dual-core device; which has yet to see apps that fully utilize its power. I have no doubt that the Atrix will see Ice Cream Sandwich by the end of the year, and so will remain relevant for quite some time to come.

That said, I realize that many aren't as savvy as I try to be in planning my purchases; and that as such, many may not care about future-proofing themselves.


----------



## Alan Gordon

WERA689 said:


> I can't necessarily disagree with you about the "pace", but the fact remains that regarding advances in handset technology, Android is now leading the field. And I say that as an Android owner that has carefully chosen his devices with an eye towards maximum return on investment.


I'd say that Android has the momentum, anyway...

They have the flashier hardware specs, but I think some of it can be overkill.



WERA689 said:


> That said, I realize that many aren't as savvy as I try to be in planning my purchases; and that as such, many may not care about future-proofing themselves.


Many of the people I know (most of which don't have smart-phones, but even those who do) are generally looking for a phone they like the look of, and the price, and occasionally the brand. Most of the tech-specs and OS makes would go right above their head...

One of the reasons I think the budget iPhone 4 will do very well...

~Alan


----------



## TBlazer07

Groundhog45 said:


> What is the "NFC"?


 *N*o-one *F*rickin' *C*ares. Maybe in 3-4 years.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Alan Gordon said:


> While I'm not one to stand in the way of progress, I* don't personally care for the way Android handset makers release a new phone every few months*... at least it feels that way anyway.


There reason for that is there are new Android phones coming out regularly - since there are numerous manufacturers supporting Android - so its not the same company coming out with something new...its various companies overall. With iPhone, there is 1.

Selection/choice is good.


----------



## Herdfan

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Hype....let me introduce you to Dud.
> 
> Even some Kookaid drinkers tasted the staleness in this one.


It was the Koolaid drinkers that created the hype. They read too many blogs showing "leaked" prototype cases with a new form factor and that is what they expected even though there were just as many rumors of the 4S design.

I am seriously thinking about getting one. I skipped the 3GS, but might jump on this one for better battery life alone.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Herdfan said:


> It was the Koolaid drinkers that created the hype. They read too many blogs showing "leaked" prototype cases with a new form factor and that is what they expected even though there were just as many rumors of the 4S design.
> 
> I am seriously thinking about getting one. I skipped the 3GS, but might jump on this one for better battery life alone.


If they get better battery life...that would be a good thing. After 3 battery replacements on the 3GS (and 2-3 recharges needed daily) over less than 18 months, my stepdaughter has had it with iPhones and is moving to an Android very shortly.

I suspect the iPhone 5 (whenever it actually does come out) will certainly have a stronger following. The (even) thinner profile and other new features will likely please the iOS loyalists.


----------



## Sixto

It's all about the software/ecosystem. I'm amazed regularly with how easily everything works together (iPod, iPhone, iPad, Apple TV) with iCloud (and iMessage, Mirroring, ....) now just adding to the integration.

There's no debate on who's #1 in customer satisfaction.

There will always be a #2 and #3 ... humans like choice.

Sure, a new hardware design (screen/chassis) had the potential to create much more buzz and longer lines, but that's just marketing/hype drama, it's still the #1 smartphone.

I'm looking forward to when I have the whole family converted by year-end.


----------



## Chris Blount

Sixto said:


> I'm looking forward to when I have the whole family converted by year-end.


I know what you mean. I converted my whole family so now when I get a new device (iPhone or iPad), the one I was using gets handed down. It works out great for everyone.


----------



## Steve

Stuart Sweet said:


> So now I'm reading that Siri will only be on iPhone 4S. *I'd like the ability to more effectively read and compose emails while on the road.* Pulling off to the shoulder is a pain. But it's still not enough to make me want to upgrade. I've got about 9 months left on my current contract *and I think I'll be able to ride it out.*


No pun intended, right?  Ya. It looks like Siri needs the dual-core CPU (and probably > internal memory) offered by the 4S.

Here's my .02. At this stage of the game, we're not going to see any "revolutionary" improvements in these hand-held devices. As far as incremental improvements go, the 4S is not a disappointment by any means, IMHO, except to folks that may have been hankering a larger screen.

The 4S has a faster CPU, better battery life, better "dual antennas" than the 4 (even though time and sales have shown there was nothing really wrong with the old antenna), dual GSM/CDMA capability and what looks like it's going to be kick-ass "voice assistant" capability, as you noted.

If and when the 5 arrives, I'm sure it will offer the same phone experience as the 4s, but in a thinner body with a slightly larger screen and 4G, which I still think is a red herring because 3G is fine for texting, e-mail and web browsing. Ya 4G is better for streaming video, but with data caps and throttling, is anyone really gonna do that? :scratchin Just my .02.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Sixto said:


> Sure, a new hardware design (screen/chassis) had the potential to create much more buzz and longer lines, but that's just marketing/hype drama, *it's still the #1 smartphone*.


*Not exactly **<in the Hertz Commercial voice>*


----------



## klang

More on the LTE chips I posted about here.


----------



## Stuart Sweet

I don't know. I think it would have been better given Mr. Jobs' change in status with Apple, if they had some really buzz-worthy hardware. Still, the lack of buzz will pass, because the real interest is with the OS, not with the hardware. The hardware form factor is fine; they added a better processor and faster camera which keeps it competitive.


----------



## Stuart Sweet

hdtvfan0001 said:


> *Not exactly **<in the Hertz Commercial voice>*


Do you have a chart that shows actual phones by market share, not just OS's? I think that would be quite a different thing.


----------



## Sixto

You walk into a store, you buy a smartphone, that's how I measure it.

I'm no expert, but it seems like the leading tablet, desktop, and laptop is also Apple.

Very impressive is their rise to prominence, and I'm gradually buying into the great integration.


----------



## Steve

StuartSweet said:


> Do you have a chart that shows actual phones by market share, not just OS's? I think that would be quite a different thing.





Sixto said:


> You walk into a store, you buy a smartphone, that's how I measure it.


Ya. Ask any salesman in a Verizon or AT&T store that carries both phone OS's which particular models they sell the most of. Also ask them which phone models are most often returned within 30 days.

And lastly, ask Sprint if they'll be buying $20 billion of any _other _individual manufacturer's phones over the next 4 years.


----------



## Sixto

klang said:


> More on the LTE chips I posted about here.


Thanks for the article/link.

As with most things, I always get the impression that Apple really thinks these things through, and releases these upgrades when it's most appropriate.

Personally, my iPhone is fine, data speed wise, but I don't tether.


----------



## Sixto

Steve said:


> Ya. Ask any salesman in a Verizon or AT&T store that carries both phone OS's which particular models they sell the most of. Also ask them which phone models are most often returned within 30 days.
> 
> And lastly, ask Sprint if they'll be buying $20 billion of any _other _individual manufacturer's phones over the next 4 years.


Exactly.

Reality.


----------



## Steve

Stuart Sweet said:


> [...] The hardware form factor is fine; they added a better processor and faster camera which keeps it competitive.


That's right. The camera is a bit more than an incremental upgrade, IMHO. I was pretty amazed by the image quality of the samples on the bottom of this page.

If you click on any of them, you can download the originals. The sharpness of the "squirrel" image is particularly impressive.


----------



## Sixto

Steve said:


> That's right. The camera is a bit more than an incremental upgrade, IMHO. I was pretty amazed by the image quality of the samples on the bottom of this page.
> 
> If you click on any of them, you can download the originals. The sharpness of the "squirrel" image is particularly impressive.


Yep, it continues to amaze me how seriously they invest in perfection for every feature, and as they said yesterday it's maybe even more about the camera software/firmware then just the lens.

The video from yesterday is great time spent.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Steve said:


> Ya. Ask any salesman in a Verizon or AT&T store that carries both phone OS's which particular models they sell the most of. Also ask them which phone models are most often returned within 30 days.


Good point - I did just that with my stepdaughter this past weekend at the Verizon store for her iPhone 3GS replacement - they said Android phones are selling better than iPhone there, especially because of their 4G support. They have 6 new Android phones coming out in 4 months alone.

At the AT&T store, they said sales were about equal. Both said they also get the about the same number of units returned for service.

There's perception, and then there's reality.


> And lastly, ask Sprint if they'll be buying $20 billion of any _other _individual manufacturer's phones over the next 4 years.


I'm not sure following what Sprint thinks is a good idea is necessarily meaning much to the market overall...


----------



## Stuart Sweet

But again you lump all Android phones together instead of addressing the question, which is, which phone do they sell the most of.


----------



## Sixto

No one is debating phones (plural) vs phone (singular).

Enter a store, which one device (singular) is the best seller.

Very simple discussion.

This whole debate is rather non-productive, everyone knows what reality is.

And again, there's always a strong desire for multiple options, humans like choice, some get excited about speeds/feeds, and there's also price thresholds for many people.


----------



## DCSholtis

Well I'll be using Gazelle to sell my 3Gs and I'll be biting on a 4Gs I think. I have a 16GB 3Gs not sure I really needed one that big so I may just get an 8GB this time around....possibly...


----------



## Herdfan

Sixto said:


> and I'm gradually buying into the great integration.


It really is. I put an entry in the calendar and it shows up on every iDevice.

Want to play a video from the iPhone on the TV? Just turn on ATV and use airplay and boom, watching the video. No downloading to a computer and then figuring out how to stream.

------------------------

As for the Android vs. Apple market share thing, iPhone is a brand of phone made by Apple and exclusively runs iOS. Android is a phone operating system and runs on many different phones. You can compare Android vs iOS, but not Android vs iPhone. Apples :lol: and Oranges.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Stuart Sweet said:


> But again you lump all Android phones together instead of addressing the question, which is, which phone do they sell the most of.


I suspect most folks buy a smartphone base on key features first (including as a phone). The carrier and service prices are other key decision points.

It's true that comparing one model to many is perhaps unequal, but Apple has chosen to have their very short list of choices.

The fact that so many manufacturers support Android (and have placed large investments in that technology) seems to make the case that its a solid choice.

It also reaffirms the idea that having more choices (in terms of phone features and capabilities) is a good thing.

The fact that more Android phones are sold than iPhones seems to be the best testimony that those manufacturers selling Android-based phones are meeting the largest number of user expectations.


----------



## Sixto

Herdfan said:


> It really is. I put an entry in the calendar and it shows up on every iDevice. ...


Yep, and I'm really looking forward to the iCloud thing and iMessage, and sharing with the whole family. I just keep thinking of all the benefits. My wife will enjoy iMessage from her iPad to the kids traveling, same with photo sharing, lots of cool possibilities.


----------



## Stuart Sweet

Not saying it isn't a solid choice.

What should be interesting is, as people will now have the choice of a free iPhone or a free Android phone, how many will go to the iPhone? I think it's great that Android is out there and I think it satisfies the needs of many people. It didn't, and still doesn't, satisfy my needs which are (1) seamless Outlook integration baked into the OS and (2) a very low support requirement as I have to support not only my phone, but my wife's and my mother's iPod Touch. 

In fact, with Wi-Fi updates and cloud sync I think the support load will drop even further.


----------



## Chris Blount

hdtvfan0001 said:


> The fact that more Android phones are sold than iPhones seems to be the best testimony that those manufacturers selling Android-based phones are meeting the largest number of user expectations.


Not necessarily. Android phones are simply flooding the market just like Microsoft did with Windows by not limiting the OS to one hardware choice. Actually with Apple's self imposed limits, its amazing how they are competing in the first place.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Stuart Sweet said:


> Not saying it isn't a solid choice.
> 
> What should be interesting is, as people will now have the choice of a free iPhone or a free Android phone, how many will go to the iPhone? I think it's great that Android is out there and I think it satisfies the needs of many people. It didn't, and still doesn't, satisfy my needs which are (1) seamless Outlook integration baked into the OS and (2) a very low support requirement as I have to support not only my phone, but my wife's and my mother's iPod Touch.
> 
> In fact, with Wi-Fi updates and cloud sync I think the support load will drop even further.


No doubt having more cloud services will prove interesting as time goes on.

We'll have to see just what adoption rate is, and how it moves users in any particular direction enough to make a difference. I think cloud computing itself is p[retty cool and actually use it on 2 devices already...but I also have some security and reliability concerns.

What is clear about smartphones is that one size does not fit all - the same could be said for wireless service providers for that matter.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Chris Blount said:


> Not necessarily. Android phones are simply flooding the market just like Microsoft did with Windows by not limiting the OS to one hardware choice. *Actually with Apple's self imposed limits, its amazing how they are competing in the first place*.


I suspect even the most prolific Android fan would have to concur that Apple makes a good smartphone and is innovative. Those two things put iPhone on the map to start with, and are why they sell tons of them. They also have some of the most loyal customers on the planet.

But to your point, the self-emposed limits for one model at a time, as well as feature limitations might be why they have lost marketshare leadership. Still, they aren't exactly "hurting" for smartphone sales.

I bet when the iPhone5 is finally released, there will be plenty of demand - past new models have had over 30% customer upgrade rates alone. Choices are good, competition is good.


----------



## dmspen

> Originally Posted by Sixto
> and I'm gradually buying into the great integration.


My wife and I have iPhone 3GS's and are considering the upgrade to the 4S (mainly for the screen and the fact that our 3GS phones are a bit on the old side and act wonky sometimes). We are also planning on getting the next iPad whenever that comes out.

Here's the question...With the great iCloud availability in iOS 5, can you integrate 2 phones into one system? Can we each add separate items to a calendar from our phones and have them show up on an iPad in an integrated calendar?

Right now we use an app/program called COZI. It's quite good as it works from the iPhone or PC and even integrates into MS Outlook so all your stuff is integrated into a single calendar.


----------



## bobukcat

Herdfan said:


> It really is. I put an entry in the calendar and it shows up on every iDevice.
> 
> Want to play a video from the iPhone on the TV? Just turn on ATV and use airplay and boom, watching the video. No downloading to a computer and then figuring out how to stream.
> 
> ------------------------
> 
> As for the Android vs. Apple market share thing, iPhone is a brand of phone made by Apple and exclusively runs iOS. Android is a phone operating system and runs on many different phones. You can compare Android vs iOS, but not Android vs iPhone. Apples :lol: and Oranges.


I keep reading about how Apple "makes all this work seamlessly across all your devices" but they leave out a pretty critical point - it only works with other iOS Devices. I've had calendar and e-mail sync via GMAIL for over two years and with Google+ my photos are automatically loaded up to the cloud and I can access them on ANY other device like my PC, all my music (and movies if I bought or rented any in digital form) is already in the cloud via Google Music and I can access it on any Android, PC, Mac, etc. The new Find My Friend feature only works on iOS - Latitude works on iOS, Android and soon WP7. I don't need Apple TV to stream something from my phone or Xoom tablet to my DLNA AVR / TV, and I've never needed a PC or Mac to upgrade the OS on my phone or tablet. I know it's their job to market their products this way but to me it just always sounds so disingenuous because I know the limitations. Don't get me wrong, they make great products and a very easy to use OS and iOS is about to get much better (IMO) when they integrate the Android-like notification system (among other things) in iOS5 but I swear that people will justify their shortcomings more so than products from any other manufacturer I've ever seen.


----------



## Stuart Sweet

What you're saying is absolutely, categorically true. If I were willing to migrate to Google for calendar and contacts sync across multiple devices, an Android phone would have been a more viable choice. 

This reminds me somewhat of a battle from about 12 years ago. In the publishing industry, Quark XPress was the dominant program. It was very basic but highly customizable with multiple extensions available. Adobe, maker of Photoshop, came along with their new program, InDesign. It was completely uncustomizable but had all the features that people wanted tightly integrated into the program. 

InDesign is now the dominant program. 

Of course, there's more to the story. Quark's customer service is legendary in its awfulness. Quark XPress was a higher priced product. There were a lot of factors. But in this case, what I'm trying to say is, when you need a product to "just work" there's a lot to be said for integrating features tightly into the ecosystem, even if better alternatives are available as extensions.


----------



## RasputinAXP

Steve said:


> No pun intended, right?  Ya. It looks like Siri needs the dual-core CPU (and probably > internal memory) offered by the 4S.


No it doesn't. Before it was purchased by Apple, Siri was available on the App Store and worked on the 3GS and the 4.

It works roughly identically to the extant Android voice command system because it requires an Internet connection to work: it records the command, says "thinking!" and transmits it to the server, which replies with the assumed response.

Really small print at the bottom: Siri is available in Beta only on iPhone 4S and requires Internet access. Siri may not be available in all languages or in all areas, and features may vary by area. Cellular data charges may apply.

It's not that it won't work with the 4 or the 3GS (or probably even the 3G), it's that it's a carrot with which to lead folks to go 4GS.


----------



## Chris Blount

Stuart Sweet said:


> what I'm trying to say is, when you need a product to "just work" there's a lot to be said for integrating features tightly into the ecosystem, even if better alternatives are available as extensions.


Yes and that goes back to the old reasons (and arguments) why people hate Apple so much. Closed ecosystems are great for people who want them but for some reason users who don't like them bash them like they are evil.


----------



## TBlazer07

You know how bad it is paying $10+ for a movie ticket and sitting in the theater with the folks in front of you texting away on their bright screen whatever device and even worse talking on the phone? Well now instead of texting they will be talking to their phones. Are you "SIRI"ious? Just another gimmick that will rarely be used except to demonstrate (and annoy).


----------



## bobukcat

Here's my take on the "4G" versus battery life argument:

I'm a fairly mobile person in both my work and personal life but even I am rarely away from a charging (or potential charging) location for more than 6 hours at a time and I can only think of one time in the past 5 years I've had to be on a phone call for more than a couple hours that I couldn't have had my phone plugged in. If plugging it in a couple times a day is my trade-off for ridiculously fast web page loading (even with Flash), getting my driving directions loaded or re-routed nearly instantly and being able to access the network while at a sporting event when all the AT&T and VZW 3G users around me can't get squat through I will gladly take it.

I know not everyone lives in a 4G area but I'm in the Cincinnati DMA - which will never be mistaken for Chicago, LA, NYC, Dallas or Houston - and I cannot believe how many places VZW has LTE deployed. A good friend of mine who has always been an iPhone / iPad fanatic was holding off upgrading from an old 3 he's been using (because he lost his 4 and didn't want to pony up full price for another one only to see it be surpassed in 4 months) for the iPhone 4S / 5 announcement yesterday and he was completely disappointed and is now waiting for the Samsung Nexus announcement - primarily because of the lack of 4G data and the same size screen. This would likely not have been so had he not picked up and used my Bionic a couple weeks ago, he needed to look up something and was blown away by the speed. He thought it was just because his iPhone 3 was super-slow, but he then compared it to his wife's 4 (on AT&T) and it blew the doors off that too.


----------



## Stuart Sweet

More power to you (and him.) Glad you're both going to be happy. I'm so glad they didn't increase the screen size... my phone doesn't need to be as big as a paperback book.


----------



## bobukcat

TBlazer07 said:


> You know how bad it is paying $10+ for a movie ticket and sitting in the theater with the folks in front of you texting away on their bright screen whatever device and even worse talking on the phone? Well now instead of texting they will be talking to their phones. Are you "SIRI"ious? Just another gimmick that will rarely be used except to demonstrate (and annoy).


To me voice commands are best used while in the car (hopefully by yourself ) to free up your eyes and hands but they can still be a distraction because, unless it's something really simple you generally end up looking at the device (whatever it is) to make sure the response was correct. I think Siri is very intriguing, much like voice commands and voice search on Android, but I still think we're years away from this technology being really, really fool-proof and functional for more advanced tasks.


----------



## bobukcat

Stuart Sweet said:


> What you're saying is absolutely, categorically true. If I were willing to migrate to Google for calendar and contacts sync across multiple devices, an Android phone would have been a more viable choice.
> 
> This reminds me somewhat of a battle from about 12 years ago. In the publishing industry, Quark XPress was the dominant program. It was very basic but highly customizable with multiple extensions available. Adobe, maker of Photoshop, came along with their new program, InDesign. It was completely uncustomizable but had all the features that people wanted tightly integrated into the program.
> 
> InDesign is now the dominant program.
> 
> Of course, there's more to the story. Quark's customer service is legendary in its awfulness. Quark XPress was a higher priced product. There were a lot of factors. But in this case, what I'm trying to say is, when you need a product to "just work" there's a lot to be said for integrating features tightly into the ecosystem, even if better alternatives are available as extensions.


Mail probably wasn't the best example to make my point (although Gmail Calendar works just fine on my wife's iPhone4!) but I just think the iPhone would be an even better product if they weren't quite so closed off. That's not too say that have to open their ecosystem to every application in the world but they focus so much on their own apps on their own devices that it blocks them off from all the rest of the devices out there, and as Android's market share continues to grow I think it will become more relevant and meaningful for their customers - and not in a good way.


----------



## bobukcat

Stuart Sweet said:


> More power to you (and him.) Glad you're both going to be happy. I'm so glad they didn't increase the screen size... my phone doesn't need to be as big as a paperback book.


I agree, there's a "sweet spot" to be found there. The 4.3" display on my Bionic is definitely as big as I'd want to go but then I have pretty big hands too so it's necessary for typing with any kind of speed / accuracy - I cannot type well on an iPhone at all. I actually think the 4" display on the Droid 3 is a really good compromise of size and usefulness, I don't want a 5" mini-tablet for my phone (the Bionic still seems strangely large when held to my head some times) but I know that there are people out there that do want just that.


----------



## Chris Blount

Stuart Sweet said:


> More power to you (and him.) Glad you're both going to be happy. I'm so glad they didn't increase the screen size... my phone doesn't need to be as big as a paperback book.


I agree. A bigger screen size would not help me at all and would only add to the clumsiness of carrying the phone around.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Chris Blount said:


> Yes and that goes back to the old reasons (and arguments) why people hate Apple so much. Closed ecosystems are great for people who want them but for some reason users who don't like them bash them like they are evil.


I suspect there is some validity to your points Chris.

In my case, I don't "hate" Apple in any way, and in fact have an iPad along with my Android tablet. My step-daughter has her 2nd consecutive iPhone model at this time.

Perhaps the most compelling case why some folks perhaps "resent" Apple is their attitude to "tell" people what they want, as opposed to supporting more open capabilities in their technology.

The best example is the Apple response for not having industry-standard USB or SD memory expansion support on their iPads: "Because people don't really need those things". My guess is consumers might just want to make those choices, rather than have someone "tell" them what they want (and then charge a premium price for the "privilege"). Sure you can buy "adapters", but that only makes Apple more money and is a silly approach.

A closed ecosystem has its merits, and promotes integrated functionality for sure. That said, it also promotes "our way or the highway" mentalities. I suspect THAT is at the heart of any Apple resentments.


----------



## Laxguy

Chris Blount said:


> Nope, not a dud. Between the speed increase, the camera and the voice recognition, it's a worthy entry into the market. Far from a dud.


Besides, they pretty much had to release something, and I believe the speculation that not all the ingredients were available in enough quantity to put together the 5.

If I still had the 3 or the 3GS (which I did have), I'd upgrade on release. However, I have the 4, so, like many others with that model, I'll stick until 5 is available. I bet that millions with the earlier models will choose to upgrade soon.


----------



## Laxguy

Reaper said:


> I didn't see a burning need to upgrade from the 3GS to the 4 and the same is true from the 4 to the 4S (or even from the 3GS to the 4S). Sure, the faster processing and better camera would be nice, but the 3GS and 4 will still get the sweet IOS 5 improvements. With no larger screen and no 4G, why upgrade? This is a big misstep by Apple IMHO, and it's months late to boot.


And there'll be some who see a burning need to up to the 4S from the 4- I found it "necessary" to upgrade from the 3GS to the 4, so it's truly diff strokes/diff folks. We'll have to see how many make the switch, but I bet it's "enough"-many millions. This is my opinion, natch, and I make no representation as to its being humble.


----------



## Sixto

Some really good LTE articles today, another:http://www.macrumors.com/2011/10/05/lte-unlikely-to-arrive-in-iphone-until-at-least-q3-2012/​


----------



## Herdfan

dmspen said:


> Here's the question...With the great iCloud availability in iOS 5, can you integrate 2 phones into one system? Can we each add separate items to a calendar from our phones and have them show up on an iPad in an integrated calendar?


Absolutely. Gets even better. We currently integrate 3 iPhones, 2 iPads and 3 iCal's (Mac Calendar). We have the main HOME calendar where stuff that affects all of us goes. My wife and daughter each have their own calendar where they put friend's birthday's and stuff I want no part of. Their "stuff" stays on their phones. It took my daughter a little while to understand what was "family stuff" and "her stuff" (for example, we don't need to know her friend's birthday, but that school dance date is important so we are aware of it).


----------



## Steve

RasputinAXP said:


> No it doesn't. Before it was purchased by Apple, Siri was available on the App Store and worked on the 3GS and the 4.
> 
> It works roughly identically to the extant Android voice command system because it requires an Internet connection to work: it records the command, says "thinking!" and transmits it to the server, which replies with the assumed response.
> 
> Really small print at the bottom: Siri is available in Beta only on iPhone 4S and requires Internet access. Siri may not be available in all languages or in all areas, and features may vary by area. Cellular data charges may apply.
> 
> It's not that it won't work with the 4 or the 3GS (or probably even the 3G), it's that it's a carrot with which to lead folks to go 4GS.


Could be. I just fired up Siri Assistant on my iPod Touch 4G, and I got the message below. Will be interesting to see what happens with that app on my iPod on the 15th.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Steve said:


> Could be. *I just fired up Siri Assistant *on my iPod Touch 4G, and I got the message below. Will be interesting to see what happens with that app on my iPod on the 15th.


Perhaps by the 15th...they'll consider changing the name again.... 

http://technolog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/10/05/8166217-awkward-apples-siri-translates-as-buttocks-in-japan


----------



## Laxguy

Stuart Sweet said:


> << Snipped bits out >>
> 
> InDesign is now the dominant program.
> 
> Of course, there's more to the story. Quark's customer service is legendary in its awfulness. Quark XPress was a higher priced product. There were a lot of factors. But in this case, what I'm trying to say is, when you need a product to "just work" there's a lot to be said for integrating features tightly into the ecosystem, even if better alternatives are available as extensions.


One of those factors was how well it worked with Photoshop, which just happened to be produced by Adobe also. And Illustrator, ibid. And Acrobat, ibid. Free trials. (Though iPhones don't play dat!) Good How To's. Instructional videos. Help in migrating from another system, platform. (Some of these apply more to Apple Macs than the iPhone, but the spirit is the same.)

Features that work, even if limited from doing everything under the sun, seem to make a lot of sense when they are also elegantly packaged and marketed.


----------



## Laxguy

bobukcat said:


> To me voice commands are best used while in the car (hopefully by yourself ) to free up your eyes and hands but they can still be a distraction because, unless it's something really simple you generally end up looking at the device (whatever it is) to make sure the response was correct. I think Siri is very intriguing, much like voice commands and voice search on Android, but I still think we're years away from this technology being really, really fool-proof and functional for more advanced tasks.


I've been using voice commands in my car for a couple of years. (Since second generation iPhone) And I don't need to look at the screen, as an efficient voice comes back confirming, "Calling: Joan Baez, Home" or, "Calling: Hank Williams, Jr, Office" or "Playing: Album Raising Sand." This is with the supplied ear buds, with mic on the cord, and a switch on the cord so you never even tough the phone while calling.


----------



## Herdfan

Laxguy said:


> And there'll be some who see a burning need to up to the 4S from the 4- I found it "necessary" to upgrade from the 3GS to the 4, so it's truly diff strokes/diff folks.





Sixto said:


> Some really good LTE articles today, another:http://www.macrumors.com/2011/10/05/lte-unlikely-to-arrive-in-iphone-until-at-least-q3-2012/​


LTE is really the only thing making me hold off on upgrading. By the time the phone gets here, we will have better LTE coverage.

But, I currently have my MIL on our account. Way back in the original ATT Wireless days you could have multiple area codes on a shared plan. Cingular did not allow that, so when my wife got her first iPhone, the MIL had to go on a separate plan. So instead of $10, her cost went to $50.

Verizon does not have this limitation, so now that the 4S is 1) a world phone, and 2) there is just one model so all phones will be on the same OS version, I might have to look at Verizon Wireless. I am only under contract on 2 of my lines, so it may be worth it to pay the ETF and move to VW.

But I would miss the talk and surf at the same time thing. Don't use it much, but when I do need it, its good to have. And the MIL would want an iPhone. She was pi**ed when she found out we got our daughter one and tried to frame it as "she doesn't need one", but it was because she was mad she didn't have one. So there goes the savings.

Hmmmm........


----------



## Laxguy

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Perhaps by the 15th...they'll consider changing the name again....
> 
> http://technolog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/10/05/8166217-awkward-apples-siri-translates-as-buttocks-in-japan


So good to have MS inspired articles posted regarding Apple products in a thread about iPhones! Kinda like quoting a Ford e-news letter in a Chevy forum!:sure:


----------



## pfp

Reaper said:


> I didn't see a burning need to upgrade from the 3GS to the 4 and the same is true from the 4 to the 4S (or even from the 3GS to the 4S). Sure, the faster processing and better camera would be nice, but the 3GS and 4 will still get the sweet IOS 5 improvements. With no larger screen and no 4G, why upgrade? This is a big misstep by Apple IMHO, and it's months late to boot.


I've got to agree. I've got a 3gs and I was 100% ready to purchase a 5. This announcement was a big disappointment and I doubt I'll buy a 4s.

_On a side note... Interesting that for a phone launch the one thing not talked about is the phone features._


----------



## Herdfan

Laxguy said:


> Features that work,


A business colleague had his computer crash. Since he is technically challenged, he called asked for help.

I went over and took an Antec MX-1 (same one we use for external drives on HR2x's), dropped his HDD in it and used my MacBook Pro to copy off all his files to an external drive. He had ordered a new Dell, but it was going to be a week or so.

He told me he really need one document printed, so I said OK, went over to his printer, plugged the USB cable in, pulled up his document, selected the printer and hit print. There was no installing the printer or looking for drivers, just plug it in and it works.


----------



## hilmar2k

To me, it all comes down to who you want making your decisions.

Android - You get many hardward choices. You choose screen size, memory, processor, GUI (Sense, MotoBlur, etc), SD card size, battery capacity, 3G/4G, etc.

iPhone - new version or old version

I'll take my decision making [for me] over Apple making my decisions every day of the week. Even BlackBerry gives you hardware choices.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Laxguy said:


> So good to have MS inspired articles posted regarding Apple products in a thread about iPhones! Kinda like quoting a Ford e-news letter in a Chevy forum!:sure:


I thought is was a giggler, regardless of the source.

Somebody in marketing apparently didn't do their homework.


----------



## Laxguy

hilmar2k said:


> To me, it all comes down to who you want making your decisions.


I make my decisions over what I buy and put to use. Usually Apple puts together the right combo of specs for me, and a few million others.

Acknowledging that there are iPhone owners who made the wrong choice for the wrong reasons in buying one, as there are non-iPhoners who don't have one, also for the wrong reasons. :nono2: 
[And I am sure from the number and strength of your protestations that you deep down want one. Badly.]


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Laxguy said:


> I make my decisions over what I buy and put to use.


That's all anyone could ask.


----------



## Laxguy

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I thought is was a giggler, regardless of the source.
> 
> Somebody in marketing apparently didn't do their homework.


Well, as an acknowledged Apple resenter (not hater!) you would giggle at that!:nono:

But, the phone is not being released in Japan, and the name sounds only vaguely similar to a japanese word. Siriously!

It's no "Nova" being marketed in S. America!


----------



## hilmar2k

Laxguy said:


> I make my decisions over what I buy and put to use. Usually Apple puts together the right combo of specs for me, and a few million others.
> 
> Acknowledging that there are iPhone owners who made the wrong choice for the wrong reasons in buying one, as there are non-iPhoners who don't have one, also for the wrong reasons. :nono2:
> *[And I am sure from the number and strength of your protestations that you deep down want one. Badly.] *


Nah. It's just a lot of fun to fire up fanboys. :lol:

I actually own nothing made by Apple. My daughter has an iPod Touch, and by brother-in-law is a store manager for Apple, so I have some experience with the platform. It's just not for me. I can certainly see why millions of housewives and schoolgirls like them though.


----------



## djlong

One of Android's problems is that a new version of the OS doesn't mean you'll get it. Will your carrier support it? Will they support it for your phone? Heck, I was told that my HTC Touch Pro 2 would get a WinMo 7 upgrade - that never happened and never will. I've already heard of people complaining that their carrier won't upgrade their phone. That's the Android Fragmentation problem.

With Apple, you have very few models and very clear upgrade paths. With this, it looks like the end is in sight for 3GS owners - not many upgrades left in that product. But there's ONE 4S. When iOS 5.1 or 5.5 comes out, you know you'll get your upgrade - you won't de bependent on Verizon or Sprint or AT&T.

That being said, I *really* wish Apple would change their stance on SD cards and batteries that can be replaced by the user. It really irritates me that I won't be able to 'sneaker-net' something via MicroSD or carry a spare battery...


----------



## hdtvfan0001

djlong said:


> One of Android's problems is that a new version of the OS doesn't mean you'll get it. Will your carrier support it? Will they support it for your phone? Heck, I was told that my HTC Touch Pro 2 would get a WinMo 7 upgrade - that never happened and never will. I've already heard of people complaining that their carrier won't upgrade their phone. That's the Android Fragmentation problem.


That's virtually an obsolete issue within 60 days, once "Ice Cream Sandwich" is released. It'll run on almost anything Android, as well as Google TV.


----------



## dshu82

hilmar2k said:


> Nah. It's just a lot of fun to fire up fanboys. :lol:
> I can certainly see why millions of housewives and schoolgirls like them though.


Ah to be so technially superior to everyone else..... how cool that must be.


----------



## barryb

I will get the 4S. 

I just happened to drop my 4 last weekend and shattered the back. Best part is: it still works, but I don't know for how long!


----------



## hilmar2k

hdtvfan0001 said:


> That's virtually an obsolete issue within 60 days, once "Ice Cream Sandwich" is released. It'll run on almost anything Android, as well as Google TV.


But that doesn't mean that the carrier will support it right away, or that the phone manufacturer will release it for every model.

That is an issue for Android. When I got my Incredible 2 in June it was running Froyo even though Gingerbread had already been released. And even when GB was released for it, it wasn't the latest version. And there are still Android phones out there stuck on Froyo.


----------



## Herdfan

djlong said:


> That being said, I *really* wish Apple would change their stance on SD cards and batteries that can be replaced by the user. It really irritates me that I won't be able to 'sneaker-net' something via MicroSD or carry a spare battery...


Can't help with the microSD cards, but if you are willing to carry a battery, there are a number of portable charging batteries available. My neighbor uses one and it works great.


----------



## Sixto

I've decided to invest in a platform (and a company).

What I like about my choice ...

I know that the company wants to be leading edge, and has visionary type people leading. They want to be the best at everything they do. It can always be debated who's number 1 at any moment in time, but I can be sure they'll always be at the top or near the top, with their one leading edge device.
I know that they have a very limited number of devices, really just one current top-of-the-line model, so they're totally focused on making that one device perfect, fully supported, and they desire high customer sat. They have a target on their back, they have ten of millions of people with that one single device, so they'll be extremely focused on any and all issues.
I know that they want to announce one device refresh per year, and they want a big show with cool stuff that people want. I love to upgrade annually, so I'm guaranteed a cool upgrade every year. I don't much care what it costs.
I know that the transition will be simple from the current device to the next. I can simply do a backup of my current device, restore to the new device, and I'm all set, without any transition headaches or time consuming re-customization. Every year! I can go years-and-years with a simple painless upgrade.
I know that I've invested in a platform with a zillion apps, hundreds of thousands of apps, and I'm almost guaranteed that if there's an app that it will run on the platform. And DirecTV loves the platform as well! Every DirecTV app comes out on this platform first.
They have other platforms for Music, and a Tablet, with also a TV device, and they all work seamlessly together. It's just great, and for at least Music and the Tablet, there's probably also a guaranteed yearly refresh, with an easy backup/restore transition.
And they're making a boatload of money, so they have a ton of cash to invest in always striving to be the market leader.
The net ... I love Apple these days, and I'm glad that I switched from Blackberry.

And my entire family is switching, so we're all consistent, and all can share in the benefits.

Just one persons view, others may have other priorities or perspectives ... which is fine.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

hilmar2k said:


> But that doesn't mean that the carrier will support it right away, or that the phone manufacturer will release it for every model.
> 
> That is an issue for Android.


It's rarely any "issue" with Android users, but it is a key inspiration for Google to have a single platform OS for all devices...something they have needed for a while as you stated.

Having a single platform is sparked more by making app development and distribution easier than anything else. It's for that very reason they released their Software Dev Kit (SDK) a while back already.

Anything running Android will support Ice Cream Sandwich...but as you stated, its up to the Manufacturers to distribute the update. The SDK toolkit given to all manufacturers makes that pretty easy.

There are more manufacturers (many huge ones), more devices, and (combined) financial investment in Android than any other platform. I'll trust that roadmap.

We now return you to your regular iPhone5 topical channel....


----------



## hilmar2k

hdtvfan0001 said:


> It's rarely any "issue" with Android users, but it is a key inspiration for Google to have a single platform OS for all devices...something they have needed for a while as you stated.
> 
> Having a single platform is sparked more by making app development and distribution easier than anything else. It's for that very reason they released their Software Dev Kit (SDK) a while back already.
> 
> Anything running Android 3.2 will support Ice Cream Sandwich...but as you stated, its up to the Manufacturers to distribute the update. The SDK toolkit given to all manufacturers makes that pretty easy.
> 
> We now return you to your regular iPhone5 topical channel....


You mean Android 2.2? There are no phones on 3.2.

Also, I was under the impression that ICS required a dual core processor. That takes 90% of the current Android phones out of the equation.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

hilmar2k said:


> You mean Android 2.2?


Fixed the post...no version should have been listed.

Android 2.3 or higher is ICS supported for sure...2.2 will vary by manufacturer to support it.

So lets let the fine folks here get back to iPhone 5.


----------



## bobukcat

Laxguy said:


> I've been using voice commands in my car for a couple of years. (Since second generation iPhone) And I don't need to look at the screen, as an efficient voice comes back confirming, "Calling: Joan Baez, Home" or, "Calling: Hank Williams, Jr, Office" or "Playing: Album Raising Sand." This is with the supplied ear buds, with mic on the cord, and a switch on the cord so you never even tough the phone while calling.


Right, and those are the type of relatively simple commands I meant when I said that's where voice commands are best used for. I have Sync in one of our cars and it does all those things very well. An example of something more complex you're likely to look at your device for would be: "Send text to Joan Baez, your music is still timely today but my DRM'd copies from iTunes don't work on my Zune."


----------



## bobukcat

djlong said:


> One of Android's problems is that a new version of the OS doesn't mean you'll get it. Will your carrier support it? Will they support it for your phone? Heck, I was told that my HTC Touch Pro 2 would get a WinMo 7 upgrade - that never happened and never will. I've already heard of people complaining that their carrier won't upgrade their phone. That's the Android Fragmentation problem.
> 
> With Apple, you have very few models and very clear upgrade paths. With this, it looks like the end is in sight for 3GS owners - not many upgrades left in that product. But there's ONE 4S. When iOS 5.1 or 5.5 comes out, you know you'll get your upgrade - you won't de bependent on Verizon or Sprint or AT&T.
> 
> That being said, I *really* wish Apple would change their stance on SD cards and batteries that can be replaced by the user. It really irritates me that I won't be able to 'sneaker-net' something via MicroSD or carry a spare battery...


"Fragmentation" of the Android platform is more to blame on the UI or skin manufacturers install than it is carrier certification IMO. BTW - Apple has to submit their s/w to the carriers for certification before it can be released too, they just don't have as many devices to have it tested on (especially on VZW who is notorious for testing the snot out of s/w and taking their time with it) and have more leverage with the carriers than most others. When a new version of the Android OS is released they have to re-write their skins (NinjaBlur, TouchWiz, Sense, etc.) to work properly on that new code and they have to divide develop time between new and older devices. This is one reason why the Nexus devices always get the new code soonest, the original Droid was quickly updated until hardware limitations (RAM) when Gingerbread was released because it too was stock Android. But one of the beautiful things about the Android ecosystem is there are awesome developers who develop custom ROMs that you can run for free. I've been running a build of Gingerbread on my OG Droid for many months even though Motorola and VZW never released a 2.3 build for it - and it runs it very well.

Now I know not everyone wants to mess with their phones to do things like rooting or loading custom ROMs, but FROYO is a very good OS on it's own and if you're not really tinkering with it would be more than acceptable for everyday use.

Recent Android OS revision numbers from the Market show that about 38% of devices are now running Gingerbread and about 85% are running at least Froyo so things are improving in this area:

http://www.engadget.com/2011/10/05/android-gingerbread-has-growth-spurt-grabs-38-2-percent-device/


----------



## bobukcat

Thought it might be interesting to link this poll from TiPB which seems to be a pretty popular iEVERYTHING blog:

http://www.tipb.com/2011/10/04/poll-iphone-4s/

Obviously none of these are scientific but right now "This isn't the iPhone I was looking for" is leading with about 60% and "Yes, you had me at iPhone" and "Maybe, waiting on reviews" combining for about 35%. I have no idea how many units 30-35% of iPhone users / fans / fanatics make up but I'm sure it's still a substantial amount! I just don't think they'll see a tremendous % of 4 users upgrading until the next release - if for no other reason than most of them are still under contract and pretty happy with the device they already have.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

OK.

I'm going to take my share of ownership for contributing to the topic diversion in this thread. Despite responding to some questions directed on non-iPhone material...I'll own up to helping cloud (no pun intended) things up.

Please...lets let the folks interested in the iPhone5 discuss that topic at hand.


----------



## hilmar2k

hdtvfan0001 said:


> OK.
> 
> I'm going to take my share of ownership for contributing to the topic diversion in this thread. Despite responding to some questions directed on non-iPhone material...I'll own up to helping cloud (no pun intended) things up.
> 
> Please...lets let the folks interested in the iPhone5 discuss that topic at hand.


Here's an article to get us back on track:

http://money.cnn.com/2011/10/04/technology/apple_iphone_5/index.htm?iid=HP_River


----------



## Lord Vader

It's really sad that Apple has so much power that they forced Sprint to make some major changes (elimination of Premier program, change in phone upgrade schedule, etc.) in order to have the "privilege" of carrying the iPhone.

Apple tells companies to bend over, and companies do it gleefully.


----------



## Stuart Sweet

Well, Sprint could have said no...


----------



## Sixto

Market demand baby.

Demand Up = leverage.

Demand Down = less to no leverage.

Let the world decide, and the chips will fall where they may.


----------



## DCSholtis

"Herdfan" said:


> Can't help with the microSD cards, but if you are willing to carry a battery, there are a number of portable charging batteries available. My neighbor uses one and it works great.


That's true I use an IMAX battery pack with my 3Gs. Works great and doesn't add too much bulk at all.


----------



## chevyguy559

I got what I wanted with yesterday's announcement, my wife a $99 iPhone 4 :lol:

I'm one of the "wait until the price drops" techies, bought her a 1st Gen iPhone for $25 when the 3G came out....got her a 3G for $99 when the 3GS came out and now getting her a iP4 for $99  Now my son uses the 1st Gen as an iPod Touch, and I'll tinker with the 3G around the house since I'm still stuck in the dark ages with my BlackBerry Torch :lol:


----------



## trdrjeff

Not sure I would believe the rumor of big money Sprint threw at Apple, that was also linked to the I5 exclusivity that turned out to be vaporware at this point.


----------



## hilmar2k

Lord Vader said:


> It's really sad that Apple has so much power that they forced Sprint to make some major changes (elimination of Premier program, change in phone upgrade schedule, etc.) in order to have the "privilege" of carrying the iPhone.
> 
> Apple tells companies to bend over, and companies do it gleefully.


They don't really have much of a choice. It's a huge gamble on Sprint's part, but a necessary one, in my opinion.

By the way, Sprint also had to commit to 30MM iPhones over the next 4 years. Not sure they have any shot of selling all of those, and they are stuck with them if they can't. Like I said, huge gamble.


----------



## Lord Vader

Stuart Sweet said:


> Well, Sprint could have said no...


So could have Verizon. So could have...


----------



## TBlazer07

hdtvfan0001 said:


> That's virtually an obsolete issue within 60 days, once "Ice Cream Sandwich" is released. It'll run on almost anything Android, as well as Google TV.


 That's not known to be true for anything other than very recent and new devices. There is talk it might require a dual core at minimum and if it doesn't the chances of AT&T doing an upgrade are slim to none on anything but the brand newest phones. If not for the fact of rooting and custom roms my Infuse would still be on Froyo and still waiting for a Gingerbread upgrade which was promised a long time ago.

I'm sure the DEV community will ultimately port ICS to just about anything but like with Froyo when it came out it will barely run on some old devices and the carriers won't even attempt to upgrade.

Major announcement info will be had next week when hopefully they finally announce the Nexus Prime w/ICS. I'm in a holding pattern either for the Prime or the GSII.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

TBlazer07 said:


> That's not known to be true for anything other than very recent and new devices. There is talk it might require a dual core at minimum and if it doesn't the chances of AT&T doing an upgrade are slim to none on anything but the brand newest phones. If not for the fact of rooting and custom roms my Infuse would still be on Froyo and still waiting for a Gingerbread upgrade which was promised a long time ago.
> 
> I'm sure the DEV community will ultimately port ICS to just about anything but like with Froyo when it came out it will barely run on some old devices and the carriers won't even attempt to upgrade.
> 
> Major announcement info will be had next week when hopefully they finally announce the Nexus Prime w/ICS. I'm in a holding pattern either for the Prime or the GSII.


At the Google Conference...thousands of attendees there (and over the live broadcast on the web) were told any device Android 2.3 or higher would run ICS. By the way....sounds like you'll be getting a pretty neat new phone soon.


----------



## Lord Vader

TBlazer07 said:


> That's not known to be true for anything other than very recent and new devices. There is talk it might require a dual core at minimum and if it doesn't the chances of AT&T doing an upgrade are slim to none on anything but the brand newest phones. If not for the fact of rooting and custom roms my Infuse would still be on Froyo and still waiting for a Gingerbread upgrade which was promised a long time ago.
> 
> I'm sure the DEV community will ultimately port ICS to just about anything but like with Froyo when it came out it will barely run on some old devices and the carriers won't even attempt to upgrade.
> 
> Major announcement info will be had next week when hopefully they finally announce the Nexus Prime w/ICS. I'm in a holding pattern either for the Prime or the GSII.


I played with the GS2 and didn't like it for one big reason-it was all plastic and just felt flimsy and cheap.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Since this is a thread about the iPhone5 - whatever it will be - I thought I share the latest set of rumors.

What I always like about this site/source is that the aggregate information from other sources too, making at least some resemblence of reasonable "guesswork".

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/05/iphone-5-release-rumors_n_996269.html


----------



## Sixto

I tend to agree with some of the articles, and tend to understand why they decided on an incremental 4S. Then when the LTE chipset is available, do a big splash with the larger screen and thinner device next year. Also thinking that they may go back to June again, because October may have been caused by the need to finish up iOS5.

It's all good buzz.


----------



## hilmar2k

TBlazer07 said:


> That's not known to be true for anything other than very recent and new devices. There is talk it might require a dual core at minimum and if it doesn't the chances of AT&T doing an upgrade are slim to none on anything but the brand newest phones. If not for the fact of rooting and custom roms my Infuse would still be on Froyo and still waiting for a Gingerbread upgrade which was promised a long time ago.
> 
> I'm sure the DEV community will ultimately port ICS to just about anything but like with Froyo when it came out it will barely run on some old devices and the carriers won't even attempt to upgrade.
> 
> Major announcement info will be had next week when hopefully they finally announce the Nexus Prime w/ICS. I'm in a holding pattern either for the Prime or the GSII.


You know, for a gumpy grampy, you're awfully technically savvy. :lol:

Prime will hopefully be my next phone as well.


----------



## Sixto

I wonder how these upgrades work. I'm a newbie. 

So when Apple says that you can pre-order on Friday, do you do that at the Apple web-site or the provider web-site (Verizon for me).

I'm going to upgrade my line, then roll the iPhone4 to another family member, just curious how this works.


----------



## Sixto

Sixto said:


> I wonder how these upgrades work. I'm a newbie.
> 
> So when Apple says that you can pre-order on Friday, do you do that at the Apple web-site or the provider web-site (Verizon for me).
> 
> I'm going to upgrade my line, then roll the iPhone4 to another family member, just curious how this works.


Oh, I now see it on the Verizon web-site.


----------



## klang

Sixto said:


> I tend to agree with some of the articles, and tend to understand why they decided on an incremental 4S. Then when the LTE chipset is available, do a big splash with the larger screen and thinner device next year. Also thinking that they may go back to June again, because October may have been caused by the need to finish up iOS5.
> 
> It's all good buzz.


I think another issue is the two year cycle with the carriers. Most of us that are currently using an iPhone 4 are only about 15 months through our contract. Right now AT&T says they would want $250 for an early upgrade. Not really worth it for me at this time.


----------



## Sixto

klang said:


> I think another issue is the two year cycle with the carriers. Most of us that are currently using an iPhone 4 are only about 15 months through our contract. Right now AT&T says they would want $250 for an early upgrade. Not really worth it for me at this time.


Yep, one of the articles talked about how they usually change the chassis every two years. I'm new to the iStuff so hadn't looked back much.


----------



## Sixto

Cool article:http://www.bgr.com/2011/10/05/apples-rise-to-greatness/​


----------



## braven

Remember folks, the Droid probably wouldn't exist if not for the iPhone.


----------



## Herdfan

Steve Jobs has passed away!

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=197560


----------



## hilmar2k

braven said:


> Remember folks, the Droid probably wouldn't exist if not for the iPhone.


And the iPhone would not exist if not for BlackBerry, Palm, Symbian, etc.

Let's not pretend that Apple invented the smartphone.


----------



## Steve

hilmar2k said:


> And the iPhone would not exist if not for BlackBerry, Palm, Symbian, etc.


One could argue the Apple Newton, ca. 1987, spawned the Palm Pilots, which spawned the early "smart" phones. 

And I'm sure someone will point out whatever device the Newton may have been imitating. :lol:


----------



## hilmar2k

Steve said:


> One could argue the Apple Newton, ca. 1987, spawned the Palm Pilots, which spawned the early "smart" phones.
> 
> And I'm sure someone will point out whatever device the Newton may have been imitating. :lol:


I *said* etc.


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## hdtvfan0001

hilmar2k said:


> I *said* etc.


That's OK....Apple didn't invent the tablet either, as some might believe...

http://www.osnews.com/story/22739/A_Short_History_of_the_Tablet_Computer

But they sure know how to market them.


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## Chris Blount

Steve Jobs looked at things reverse of what most tech companies do. He looked from the consumer standpoint first then reverse engineered everything to make it easy to use and practical. No, he didn't invent the smart phone and the tablet, he made them useful.


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## hilmar2k

"Chris Blount" said:


> Steve Jobs looked at things reverse of what most tech companies do. He looked from the consumer standpoint first then reverse engineered everything to make it easy to use and practical. No, he didn't invent the smart phone and the tablet, he made them useful.


I am not sure useful is the best word, as prior tablets and smartphones were certainly that. I think what he did was make them fun. He took what was once a business device and made it a consumer device.


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## dmspen

After thinking about this whole iPhone4S vs iPhone 5, I think that Apple may be pulling a tremendous marketing scheme.

I think MANY 3GS owners will take this opportunity to upgrade to the 4S since their 2 year contract is up.

I think MANY 4 owners will NOT upgrade as it appears to be a somewhat minor upgrade - at least in appearance. They will wait until the iPhone 5 comes out and their 2 year contract is up.

This 'guarantees' yearly sales rather than one BIG sale every other year.

The wife and I have 2 year old iphone 3GSs and will probably upgrade for the screen and camera.


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## Karen

I have an iPhone 4 and I considered updating just for the camera, but I have a year left on my contract and decided I have other things to do with my money, so will wait. I love the look and feel of my iPhone 4 and hate the thought of them changing it...


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## Herdfan

Karen said:


> I love the look and feel of my iPhone 4 and hate the thought of them changing it...


Which is one of the things that has me thinking upgrade. I also like the 4 and I'm not a fan of the leaked 5 designs.

I will have to do it quietly as my daughter has a 3GS and would want my old 4. But I think the 3G/S Otterbox is much more durable than the one for the 4, so I would prefer she keep it as "safe" as possible.


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## hdtvfan0001

Herdfan said:


> Which is one of the things that has me thinking upgrade. I also like the 4 and I'm not a fan of the leaked 5 designs.
> 
> I will have to do it quietly as my daughter has a 3GS and would want my old 4. But I think the 3G/S Otterbox is much more durable than the one for the 4, so I would prefer she keep it as "safe" as possible.


In our case...it has my step-daughter leaning towards an Atrix in light of her dying 3GS...


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## Karen

Herdfan said:


> Which is one of the things that has me thinking upgrade. I also like the 4 and I'm not a fan of the leaked 5 designs.
> 
> I will have to do it quietly as my daughter has a 3GS and would want my old 4. But I think the 3G/S Otterbox is much more durable than the one for the 4, so I would prefer she keep it as "safe" as possible.


I'll probably upgrade to the 4s when the iPhone 5 comes out. It will be closer to the time I'll be out of contract and should be cheaper than the 5.


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## Steve

Chris Blount said:


> Steve Jobs looked at things reverse of what most tech companies do. He looked from the consumer standpoint first then reverse engineered everything to make it easy to use and practical. No, he didn't invent the smart phone and the tablet, he made them useful.


You're in good company, Chris. Here's what Eugene Kaspersky had to say this morning:



> The man who invented the wheel didn't change the world...the man who got a stick and attached two wheels, he changed the world. Steve Jobs, he was the man with the stick.


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## DCSholtis

Well I did the upgrade early this morning...Took awhile but finally got through.


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## klang

Reuters: 'AT&T seeing "extraordinary demand" for new iPhone'

200,000 pre-orders in the first twelve hours for just one carrier. Yep that's a dud alright. :lol:

I did find I will be eligible for upgrade pricing on December 2. I may go for it.


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## hilmar2k

klang said:


> Reuters: 'AT&T seeing "extraordinary demand" for new iPhone'
> 
> 200,000 pre-orders in the first twelve hours for just one carrier. Yep that's a dud alright. :lol:
> 
> I did find I will be eligible for upgrade pricing on December 2. I may go for it.


Remember, this is the first iPhone to launch on two or more networks simultaneously, and it's launching on three. It's also the only iPhone option for Sprint customers. It should beat previous sales records, even if it doesn't live up to expectations.


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## Sixto

Ordered 4S this morning (Verizon).

"Thank you for your order. It is being processed and will be shipped to arrive on 10/14/11."


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## Sixto

Verizon now has the 4S 16GB at 10/21, 32GB still 10/14.


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## Steve

The Apple Store is no longer promising 10/14.

Fortune had this to say:


> If you had any doubts that Apple (AAPL) would be able to beat the record 1.7 million iPhones sold in three days in June 2010, you can put them to rest. [*more*]


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## dpeters11

I do hope AT&T doesn't rename theirs 4G. It's not accurate, and will just confuse customers once AT&T rolls out LTE and real 4G, and their "4G" phones aren't compatible.


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## Herdfan

dpeters11 said:


> I do hope AT&T doesn't rename theirs 4G. It's not accurate, and will just confuse customers once AT&T rolls out LTE and real 4G, and their "4G" phones aren't compatible.


They will call that 5G. :lol:


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## VegasDen

You can almost guarantee that AT&T will be bragging their IPhone will be the only version that is capable of the accelerated speeds of the new chip as well as simultaneous data/voice.


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## dpeters11

Yeah, and I've had people think that the no simultaneous data/voice was without exception, because ATT told them it was impossible under all circumstances. Just not true. Phone companies do irritate me...


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## klang

Engadget:  Apple iPhone 4S pre-orders exceed one million in first 24 hours.

It will be interesting to see the breakdown by carrier.


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## hdtvfan0001

klang said:


> Engadget:  Apple iPhone 4S pre-orders exceed one million in first 24 hours.
> 
> It will be interesting to see the breakdown by carrier.


It'll be equally interesting to see the numbers, since Engadget has a pretty good track record of providing "suspect" information on many topics.

Nonetheless....they'll probably sell a bunch of the 4GS units to replace the older 3G series devices that are showing their age.


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## klang

hdtvfan0001 said:


> It'll be equally interesting to see the numbers, since Engadget has a pretty good track record of providing "suspect" information on many topics.


The source is a press release directly from Apple, which is included in their story. :lol:


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## hdtvfan0001

klang said:


> The source is a press release directly from Apple, which is included in their story. :lol:


Cool - I'm sure Apple would never inflate their results...


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## Steve

klang said:


> Engadget:  Apple iPhone 4S pre-orders exceed one million in first 24 hours.
> 
> It will be interesting to see the breakdown by carrier.


I'm trying to think of what other consumer electronics device had as successful a first 24 hours. If it's not the this, the 4s has gotta be right up there with whatever is.

Imagine what they're going to see when they finally launch the iPhone 5 next year! :eek2:


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## hdtvfan0001

Yup - they'll sell a bunch no doubt.

But once you look past 24 hours...there's even a bigger fish to fry for record launch sales...

http://community.guinnessworldrecords.com/_Kinect-Confirmed-As-Fastest-Selling-Consumer-Electronics-Device/blog/3376939/7691.html


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## Herdfan

klang said:


> It will be interesting to see the breakdown by carrier.


AT&T is reporting 200+K of those.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/07/us-att-idUSTRE7966NL20111007


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## klang

Herdfan said:


> AT&T is reporting 200+K of those.
> 
> http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/07/us-att-idUSTRE7966NL20111007


See post # 184 

That 200K was for twelve hours. Did they double down to 400K in twenty-four? I suspect maybe not or they would have announced it.


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## Steve

klang said:


> That 200K was for twelve hours. Did they double down to 400K in twenty-four?


That's my guess. 400k AT&T, 300k Verizon and 300k Sprint.


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## DavidMi

I ordered a 4S last Friday morning... I am very excited as this will be my first iphone, I have an ipad already so I sort of know what to expect.

I went with AT&T and ordered from Apple, this morning I got an email from AT&T confirming my order with them and welcoming me to AT&T. My order now says processing. 

Can't wait to get it!


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## Herdfan

Steve said:


> That's my guess. 400k AT&T, 300k Verizon and 300k Sprint.


But was that 1M US or worldwide? I think the UK, France and Japan also started orders that day.


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## klang

Herdfan said:


> But was that 1M US or worldwide? I think the UK, France and Japan also started orders that day.


Apple Press release I think that says just US.


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## Steve

Ya. If those were via Apple's site, they were only offering US carriers.

They're out to 1-2 weeks now. Still not as bad as the iPad2. These are probably easier to produce because they're able to use the same assembly lines as the 4's, I'll bet.


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## djlong

I know I'll be making a contribution to their coffers early Friday morning. I'll be in for 3 iPhone 4S handsets.


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## Lucavex

I love all the choice I get when I order a new iPhone.

"I'd like a new iPhone please."

"Certainly sir, what color would you like?"

Of course, there was a time you could get an iPhone in ANY color you wanted, so long as it was black.


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## wingrider01

Steve said:


> That's my guess. 400k AT&T, 300k Verizon and 300k Sprint.


actually 200K for ATT was reported, suspect the bulk of the sales went to apple. Verizon's has ot said much but none of their current Iphone 4 users where eligible for upgrade pricing, they dropped the 12 month upgrade when they introduced the iphone. Out of all of the new models for the Iphone 4s the only one that Sprint sold out of was the entry level - 16GB, they still have 32 and 64GB available as of tuesday

All in all for 4 retail points the response was meeh


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## Steve

wingrider01 said:


> actually 200K for ATT was reported


I think that was the first 12 hours.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/07/us-att-idUSTRE7966NL20111007

So all the Verizon 4S's were new users? Interesting, because at least 200k must have come from there, no?


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## Herdfan

I did read something very interesting. Since this will be the first GSM/CDMA combo phone, carriers get to decide about unlocking it. It seems Sprint's GSM functions will be unlocked from day one, Verizon's after 60 days.

Used phones from these carriers just became a lot more valuable on the secondary market.

Edit: It seems Sprint has come out denying this: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news...hone-4s-with-unlocked-micro-sim-card-slot.ars


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## Sixto

iOS 5 ... downloading now. It's available.


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## Steve

Bloomberg is reporting that all us carriers are officially "sold out" of the 4S. AT&T is now estimating 3-4 weeks delivery on their web site, up from 2-3 days. I just went to Apple, however, and they're still saying 1-2 weeks. :shrug:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-...-three-u-s-carriers-ahead-of-store-debut.html


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## klang

I wonder how many Blackberry users have ordered an iPhone in the last couple days? 

My wife was in Chicago for a Mortgage Bankers Association trade show earlier this week. According to her the Blackberry crowd were LIVID.


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## Steve

klang said:


> I wonder how many Blackberry users have ordered an iPhone in the last couple days?
> 
> My wife was in Chicago for a Mortgage Bankers Association trade show earlier this week. According to her the Blackberry crowd were LIVID.


Those poor people. Probably costing some of them money, too. :nono2:

I'll bet many of those that can switch are used to keyboards, tho. Could be WP7 benefits most from the outage, since Android sees so many daily activations anyway. The delta might just a rounding error for Google.


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## hdtvfan0001

klang said:


> I wonder how many Blackberry users have ordered an iPhone in the last couple days?
> 
> My wife was in Chicago for a Mortgage Bankers Association trade show earlier this week. According to her the Blackberry crowd were LIVID.





Steve said:


> Those poor people. Probably costing some of them money, too. :nono2:
> 
> I'll bet many of those that can switch are used to keyboards, tho. Could be WP7 benefits most from the outage, since Android sees so many daily activations anyway. The delta might just a rounding error for Google.


We had 25 of our staff at the very same Conference.

Yup - plenty of unhappy folks because of the RIM downtime. Then again...95% of the Blackberry users are Corporate users, not making buying decisions on equipment or providers.


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## djlong

It'll be interesting to see what the truth about GSM unlocking is.

The Sprint rep who denied the initial Sprint rumor (that it would be unlocked form day one) didn't even know whether or not you CAN remove the SIM card - and didn't know that it was a MicroSIM card to boot. (And yes, you can remove it - you need a paper clip to open the slot)

The manager at the Sprint store I went to last week told me that they can't unlock the *CDMA* side of things, but that they CAN unlock the GSM side but ONLY for international (no switching your phone to AT&T). He seemed pretty knowledgable because he told me that they wouldn't be doing the Sprint insurance - you'd have to buy the Applecare+ - and this was before the general announcement was made.

I plan on finding out the truth tomorrow.


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## DCSholtis

Finally got IO5 downloaded on everything.....now going thru the iPhone4s authorization this morning was another thing. UGH.


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## dpeters11

"klang" said:


> I wonder how many Blackberry users have ordered an iPhone in the last couple days?
> 
> My wife was in Chicago for a Mortgage Bankers Association trade show earlier this week. According to her the Blackberry crowd were LIVID.


My Blackberry users were quite glad we have a backup. It's gotten a lot of use in the past few months, we had an exchange outage a while back that we had to use it for too.


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## Steve

Apple's iPhone 4S barrelled toward unit sales of up to 4 million at the weekend, as the company's US carrier partner AT&T reported a record number of customers activating the device on its network.

The latest version of Apple's best-seller, which went on sale last Friday in the US, Australia, Canada, France, Germany, Japan and the UK, is outpacing the iPhone 4 - a device that topped 1.7 million units in its first weekend in 2010. Most estimates for weekend sales range from 2 million to 3 million, with Yankee Group analyst Carl Howe predicting up to 4 million.

[*more*]


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## djlong

Well.. I made the plunge. Bought 3 iPhone 4S handsets. 1 32GB in white for the wife, a 64GB black for me and 64GB black for my daughter who is selling her 2-month-old 64GB iPod Touch to pay for it.

A little slow getting activated, but it pretty much went without a hitch.

I've been a Windows Mobile guy ever since my Axim X5 PDA in 2002 and my Palm Treo 700w in 2005 (because I could write apps for it using the same development environment I used for desktop and web apps - Visual Studio). And since early 2009 I've been using a HTC Touch Pro 2.

The difference is astounding.

I decided that, since I was FAR more a USER of phone apps, being able to write them wasn't so important. Here's what I've noticed in my first weekend with the 4S and iOS5.

- Siri is a KILLER app. Haven't 'written' a text message at all - dictated them all.
- Web pages render FAST. It's like a desktop when using my wifi at home.
- Apple wants you to use a strong password (good). They also want you to re-type it for every purchase on the phone (annoying because of the combination of numbers/letter/uppercase/symbols)
- I will no longer have to go outside or to a window at work to answer a call.
- Sprint service at home seems just as good as Verizon was.

And I found out what the final word was on the GSM (un)locking issue with Sprint.

The iPhone 4S shipped with it's GSM unlocked.
At some point, Sprint will 'push' a lock on the MicroSIM card.
After that, if you're a customer in good standing, you can request an unlock.

It looks like they're adopting Verizon's policy - you have to be a customer for 2 months before they'll set you free - and only on request. That's ok since it'll be next year AT LEAST before I head overseas again.

The games are great, the apps do what they say they do, I get alerts when an app wants access to my info or location (which is the way it should be)...

My biggest problem was with iTunes and wanting to move my music library from my laptop to my HT (Home Theater) PC after I'd put iTunes on the HTPC and synced my iPhone to that. That was an unpleasant and time-consuming ordeal that eventually required uninstalling and starting all over again.

We'll see how the battery life is.


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## Steve

> They also want you to re-type it for every purchase on the phone (annoying because of the combination of numbers/letter/uppercase/symbols)


Every purchase? Or every purchase session? Just wondering if the 4S is different than my iPod Touch or iPad2 on iOS 5. With those, I have to log in first trip to the store, but once it's open, I can make several purchases without re-authing.

I'm jealous there's no Siri for the iPad2, which has similar computing power to the 4S. That looks like an app I'd really use a lot.


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## klang

Steve said:


> Every purchase? Or every purchase session? Just wondering if the 4S is different than my iPod Touch or iPad2 on iOS 5. With those, I have to log in first trip to the store, but once it's open, I can make several purchases without re-authing.


I agree that has been the behavior with iOS 4. I haven't gotten anything new from the store since upgrading to iOS 5.

I think they will turn on Siri for the iPad2 at some point, the hardware surely should be capable. I think they are probably attempting to protect their server resources until the kinks are worked out.


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## dmspen

DCSholtis said:


> Finally got IO5 downloaded on everything.....now going thru the iPhone4s authorization this morning was another thing. UGH.


My iPhone4s authorization was absolutely easy. The email from ATT had a link. I clicked it, verified the info, and within minutes the phone was good to go.


----------



## djlong

Steve said:


> Every purchase? Or every purchase session? Just wondering if the 4S is different than my iPod Touch or iPad2 on iOS 5. With those, I have to log in first trip to the store, but once it's open, I can make several purchases without re-authing.
> 
> I'm jealous there's no Siri for the iPad2, which has similar computing power to the 4S. That looks like an app I'd really use a lot.


Actually I've had it both ways.

One time, I put the password in and was able to get two or three apps without entering the password again.

Another time, even for a FREE app, I had to put in a password - even though I'd put a password in earlier.

I can't nail down exactly what the rules are - I would *guess* that the password 'times out' after a while.

But I certainly got an early indicator about battery life.

Normally, a day at work drains at least 70% of the battery in my HTC because of the lousy signal and it constantly going into "hunt for signal" mode. Conversely, when I charge up on Friday night, I can go a three-day weekend at home without needing to charge.

When I got home from work yesterday, I still had 75% battery left... In addition, I have 2 or 3 bars from Sprint at work - meaning I no longer have to go to the lobby to make a call and don't get so many "New Voicemail" messages coming all at once when a connection is established.

I am *loving* this phone. My wife is even being able to figure things out without having to ask me for help (it's up to about 50/50 now).


----------



## dpeters11

And they are adding another carrier, C-Spire, formerly Cellular South is getting the 4s.


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## Herdfan

djlong said:


> I can't nail down exactly what the rules are - I would *guess* that the password 'times out' after a while.


I think it is 15 minutes. Also, they changed the way in-app purchases work. Before you could buy and app and the in-app purchases would be included in the 15 minute time out period. But after parents would buy their kids the Smurf's app and the kids would then "buy" stuff in the app not knowing they were spending real money. Then the parents would get a $100 bill. I guess after so many complaints, they now make you enter the password again for in-app purchases.


----------

