# 721 Caller ID problem



## Ken N. (Apr 8, 2003)

I have recently moved and my 721 now causes my phone to only ring once or twice and then it disconnects incoming calls. It doesn't happen all the time but it happens often enough where I have been forced to disconnect my phone line from the 721. It worked fine at my old place and it is the same phone provider. I have also only had the 721 connected to a line with no other lines connected to the phone box directly. I have rebooted, checked the switches etc. and still no good. I don't understand how the 721 would be able to do this but it does. Anyone have any ides


Ken


----------



## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

Ken,

Your 721 may not be causing the problem. The problem is likely your telephone line. If you have too much of a "load" on your line (outside your home), putting an item on the line could cause the problem you are describing. The problem also could be caused by poor inside wiring. Call the telephone company and have them check your line. They may be providing your service via a SLC (subscriber line concentrator). They are known to sometime caused the problem as are load coils (load coils are sometimes on the wires between your home and the central office).


----------



## Guest (Apr 8, 2003)

i agree with bill R, most likely it's your phone. probably old phone cables or could be just too much dust or rust on the phone jacks.


----------



## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

Would grounding the phone line help?


----------



## Ken N. (Apr 8, 2003)

I have removed all the phone lines directly from the telephone box on my house excluding a line with the 721. I have also tried the 721 on another phone line and I have the same problem. I now have a standard caller ID box and 2 phone lines with no issues. If I plug the 721 in, the incoming calls are disconnected. Can the 721 have a greater load stand alone than when I have no 721 and 2 phone lines with a caller ID. I wouldn't think that the phone jack load on the 721 would be that much differenet than a normal phone or caller ID box.



What do you mean by grounding the phone line?


----------



## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

Ken,

There could be all sorts of things between your home and the telephone company's central office that is causing your problem. CALL THE TELEPHONE COMPANY. Only they can "look" at the line and "see" what is on it.

It could be that you home wiring is screwed up too. I have seen homes where a second line was added and the wiring was not done correctly and some piece of equipment did not work. Your 721 is "tripping the line" (acting like it is answering the line). Most of the time this is because there is something wrong on the line.

Grounding could be an issue too. Telephone lines should have a lightening arrestor (it is installed by the phone company and is usually part of the network interface box) and it MUST be grounded to your home ground (usually at the meter). You satellite system must be grounded also and MUST be connected to your electrical system's common ground. Not have your satellite system grounded _could_ be causing your problem.


----------



## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

If the phone company has to do any work inside the home they WILL charge you. If it is a problem that is outside the home its on them. It could be a modem issue where the modem is no good ruining any connection you have when it is connected. 

The best thing to do is to take it to someone else's house or to your local retailer that you bought it from and see if it does the same thing there, especially someone that already has a 721. Even if they have a 501 or 508 you may be able to see if your 721 works on that since it should not operate any different for the modem function than they do.


----------



## Ken N. (Apr 8, 2003)

I actually called the phone company when I first had the hanging up problem before I knew it was the 721 and they told me that they would have someone sent out in a day to check it out. They never contacted me to let me know what they found so I have no idea if they even came out. I assumed they checked the line outside but who knows. I will call and see if they know if anyone ever came out.

I will check the telephone box but I am pretty sure I remember it grounded to the meter. How can I determine if the satellite system is also grounded? Is this done directly through the ground of the Plug or was this supposed to be done by the installer? That hack tracked tar all over my carpets and ran the satellite cables from the dish over the edge of the roof which is about 2 feet from the outside walls. He didn't even tie them doen. It looks rediculous.


----------



## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Ken N. _
> *How can I determine if the satellite system is also grounded? Is this done directly through the ground of the Plug or was this supposed to be done by the installer?*


Ken,

Look outside where your dish is mounted. You should see a bare or green wire running from the ground block or switch (if you have one) to your home's common ground. If you do not see one, call the installer back. It is a requirement of the NEC (national electrical code) that a ground be installed.


----------



## Ken N. (Apr 8, 2003)

Thanks for the help. I guess I will have to climb on the roof.


----------



## Ken N. (Apr 8, 2003)

At my previous home the dish was mounted low and I had to remove it before I left. There absolutely was no ground wire installed so I can imagine it was also not done at my new address by the installer. I'll check.


----------



## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

The phone line should also be grounded. One can put it through a surge supressor that has a phone ground as well to ground it I believe. See if that solves the problem. Trying it on someone else's phone line may be the only way to test it to see if it is the receiver or the phone line.


----------



## Ken N. (Apr 8, 2003)

The phone box does have a ground wire connected to the meter of the house. I looked in the box where the wire is connected to a metal ground plate. I also looked at the wires coming in from the phone company. There are about 30 wires but only four are connected. 2 for Line 1 and 2 for line 2 (I think). I do not see any wires from this cable connected to the ground plate. Is this normal? I expected to see a ground wire from the main cable connected to the ground plate. 

As a test, I connected a wire from an outlet ground directly to the coax. connected to the 721. I called about 5 times and so far so good. I am going to wait and see how this works for a few days as a test. Maybe I will try it 20 or 30 times tomorrow when it's not so late at night. Girlfriend's "on the rag" and I ain't messing with that.


----------



## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

Even if it is grounded out at the phone company box there may still be a problem. I say that because a phone line is the most likely cause of a surge when one happens, so it may be a bit more sensative to grounding and require more attention. A good surge surpressor will help in this. It is a good idea even for those that do not have pvr's that have the phone line connected to their receivers.


----------



## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Ken N. _
> *The phone box does have a ground wire connected to the meter of the house. I looked in the box where the wire is connected to a metal ground plate. I also looked at the wires coming in from the phone company. There are about 30 wires but only four are connected. 2 for Line 1 and 2 for line 2 (I think). I do not see any wires from this cable connected to the ground plate. Is this normal?*


The 4 wires for your two telephone lines should go through a network interface box and that box has a lightening arrestor in it that has one wire connected to ground. If that is not the case you have a very old box and it should be replaced (by the telephone company at NO charge to you).

I have no idea of why you have 30 wires running to your home. Standard telephone drops for residence service usually have 6 wires. Sounds like a very old installation like the telephone companies did in the 60s.



> *Girlfriend's "on the rag". *


Too much information. We didn't need to know that. :shrug:


----------



## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Ken N. _
> *As a test, I connected a wire from an outlet ground directly to the coax. connected to the 721. I called about 5 times and so far so good. I am going to wait and see how this works for a few days as a test. *


Sounds like you have found the problem (a non-grounded system). If the installer had done the installation right (put in a ground block or ran a ground to the switch) you would not have had that problem.

You don't want to leave it connected the way you have it (it might cause a ground loop). You want to ground the coax OUTSIDE and connect that ground to your common electrical ground.


----------



## Danbo (Oct 3, 2002)

Well, after reading this discussion on phone line and grounding, I have a question/concern. I ordered my 721 from Dish Depot. The installation was a "voucher" of sorts once the equipment came. I called Dish, they set a date, and it was installed. Yet, just like my previous DirecTV install, no ground wire was ever installed on it.

Granted, I've not had a problem, but it may now be a concern. My house is aluminium sided. The dish itself is on the facia part of my house, at roof line. I had an older DirecTV dish mounted lower, but that got ripped off (yeah, nice neighborhood). That one had a ground wire. I'm wondering if grounding with it being attached through the aluminium siding is necessary or not. Any thoughts on that?

And, to add my thoughts on the phone issue, I rewired the first floor of my house, all the way out to the external phone box using Cat 5 cable (4 pair). This supports 3 phone lines (home, fax, office) and DSL (which the installer did wrong and had it run on a completely different pair). So, unlike some current installations, I don't have 4 wires running to every jack. Each jack in the living room has 4 plugs (3 for phone, 1 for DSL via my home network) and 2 Coax connections. This allows me to put my equipment, be it TV or other stuff, on any wall in the living room without worrying about running wires. I do have everything centrally wired in a wiring cabinet in my front closet (all wires run from outside, in the crawl space, to this central location).

I went to the neighbors house when he bought it from his father to help him with some remodeling. He had, perhaps like this person, a boatload of OLD phone wires. I mean these are the old ones that had the jacks with the four prongs, not modular plugs. And there were a ton. Best thing I found, which worked for him, was to rip out as much of the old stuff as possible and rewire from where it entered his house to the appropriate outlets. This ultimately got rid of a lot of confusion. Not to mention he had me wire his phones and surround system (hiding speaker wires, etc).


----------



## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Danbo _
> * I'm wondering if grounding with it being attached through the aluminium siding is necessary or not. Any thoughts on that?*


Dan,

I would run a ground from the switch (or ground block) to your electrical system's ground just to be on the safe side. The ground is not really to protect from a direct lightening strike but it does serve to drain a static buildup that can occur (and could attact lightening) on the dish and it also serves to prevent ground loops that can occur with some (mainly poorly designed) audio/video equipment. Even though you don't have a problem now, you could have one in the future. Besides the safety issue a missing ground could cause a problem when you change equipment. I know someone that had DirecTV for 5 years and got a new TV and had problems with hum bars. Since I had satellite he asked me to look at it and when I checked outside I noticed that he did not have a ground. We added a ground wire and his problem went away. It seems that there are lots of installers that skip the ground wire (although both the NEC and our local electrical code requires it).

I agree with what you posted about the telephone wiring. Sometimes it is best just to tare out the old stuff and put in cat 5E. The old stuff can really cause problems if you have DSL.


----------



## Ken N. (Apr 8, 2003)

721 is still hanging up on my calls. I called the number about 10 times from work today with no problem. Then I tried on the way home and it hung up a few times. I am assuming that the lack of ground block is not the problem. I have to check with the phone company again.


----------



## Ken N. (Apr 8, 2003)

Phone company confirmed that there are no issues with the line to the house. I called dish for some ideas (man those guys are clueless). In any case they are sending someone out to install the grounding block. If this doesn't work, I will have to have the phone company check out the box and probably get charged.


----------



## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Every time Isee such disacussions I wonder why anyone wants caller ID on trheir TV. 

I have a radio shack TALKING caller ID box thats way more convenient/ Says the caller out loud, by reading the actual number.

Way better than tv ID and the tv doesnt have to be on.


----------



## Danbo (Oct 3, 2002)

I love my AT&T 5830 phones. I bought the base, and 2 extra handsets. It talks as well, calls out numbers or, if you add your own announcement for someone elses number, will say that when they call.

But, that all said and done, my wife happens to like the caller ID on the TV itself. Perhaps she's too lazy to look over at the phone next to her to see who it is? I dunno, but if you have the feature on the 721, it should work anyway. If it didn't, I'd be yapping about it too.


----------



## Ken N. (Apr 8, 2003)

Dish cane and properly installed the ground but still no good. I guess I have to forgret about caller ID and having pay per view. Otherwise, I will have to plug int he phone line every time I need to order a movie.


----------

