# DirecTV's new equipment upgrade promo a sham



## BearsAndCards (Mar 6, 2015)

I've been with DirecTV for about 2.5 years now and generally been happy.....except for the gigantic lag my Genie HD DVR has when pressing basically anything on the remote. This has been extremely frustrating. I chalked it up to old hardware since mine is 2.5 years old. My model is the HR34-700. I have friend who recently signed up with DirecTV and got the latest model of their Genie HD DVR. I believe the model number begins with HR44, but don't hold me to that. There are two BIG advantages his over mine: It's half the physical size of my current box and absolutely no lag when navigating through the menus and guide.

So today I logged onto my account to see about equipment upgrades and what do you know - a message saying "You Qualify for an upgrade to the latest DIRECTV Equipment" (screenshot attached). I was happy about this as I thought I could get the better looking/newer/UPGRADED model of my Genie HD DVR that wouldn't have this terrible lag and look nicer.

WRONG.

After speaking with a DirecTV rep and the supervisor on duty, it turns out that I'm ACTUALLY only eligible to upgrade the two HD receivers in my bedrooms to Genie minis. I asked about the blatant false advertising on my account saying that I qualify for an upgrade to my equipment, and the supervisor went into some shpiel about how that can actually be interpreted in two different ways. The way I was interpreting wasn't accurate. They can't actually upgrade my Genie HD DVR - only the minis.

This is very troubling to me since I pay for a protection plan that says it includes free upgrades every 2 years. Seems again like false advertising.

This has ticked me off so much, I'm thinking of jumping ship to DISH instead. Anyone else had this problem?


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## mrknowitall526 (Nov 19, 2014)

DTV sees the 34 and 44 as equivalent since they are both Genies, hence the lack of offer to upgrade.


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## BearsAndCards (Mar 6, 2015)

Does the 44 have the same lag problems as the 34? I have friend with the 44 that does not have this problem.


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## Aridon (Mar 13, 2007)

The 34 is inferior.


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## mexican-bum (Feb 26, 2006)

The 44 is much much better, complain and have them send out a replacement, may get another 34 but a good chance of getting a 44.

I fought with them when I first got my genie, installer kept bringing out 34's and I kept canceling and rescheduling, eventually they gave me a large credit to purchase on my own, gotta wear them down sometimes and be persistent , shouldn't have to be that way but it is.


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## sregener (Apr 17, 2012)

This has been one of my greatest frustrations with DirecTV - their "all these boxes are just like the others" claim, when informed users know the difference. When I had a dog of an HR22-100, I was told I could get a replacement box - with a new 2-year commitment - but they couldn't promise me the replacement box wouldn't be another HR22-100. I went to Dish for 2 years, thoroughly loved the Hopper (though PQ left a little to be desired) and only came back when I had friends in high places who helped me ensure I got an HR44.

I know how much churn hurts DirecTV's bottom line. I wonder how much of that churn is related to bad hardware they claim is the same as the good hardware...


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## fleckrj (Sep 4, 2009)

I agree that the HR44 performs better than the HR34 as far as lag times go, but other than that, they have the same functionality. It is an annoyance that DirecTV considers them to be interchange, but if all you had was an HR2x or no HR2x at all, you would have been eligible for a free upgrade to either an HR34 or HR44, and they did offer you a free upgrade to the Genie Mini, so it is not false advertising.


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## fleckrj (Sep 4, 2009)

And although it is pronounced like "shpeel", the word is *spiel *- A long, involved sales pitch, as in, "I had to listen to his whole spiel before I found out what he really wanted." Yiddish from the German word for _play_.


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## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

Yes, it's not a sham, it just has a set of rules that you don't like. This is free, so they can make whatever rules they like. And DirecTv has ALWAYS considered equipment to fall into groups like this - as has been posted, all DVRs are the same from an inventory perspective, both Genies are the same. So you can't "upgrade" from an HR20 to an HR24, for example, and you can't upgrade from an HR34 to an HR44. If they didn't do this, everyone would want the new model every time one was released. When the HR34 came out, everyone loved it, until the Hr44 appeared.

You'll see many posts from people who have managed to work their way around the system, but pretty well all of them involve some mild form of deception. It's up to you.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Upgrades are between classes. There are many of us that don't necessarily agree with that, though in the past higher model number wasn't necessarily better.

You have a few options (some may call one unethical-wrote that before TexasBrit responded)

Get an HR44 on your own. This option is the most expensive, and if you get it leased (like from Solid Signal), it comes with a two year contract. Owned ones are out there, but you have to make sure it really is owned. This can cost more, but no contract. If owned, add $20 for a new access card.

Your HR34 has experienced a catestrophic failure, won't turn on. Have a tech come to replace it, asking him when he calls if he has any 44s. He comes and swaps out. No contract here, just dealing with an installer.

You of course could go to Dish, but make sure they don't have the same type of policy.

Keep in mind, you'd have to give up the HR34 completely once you upgrade. You can't keep it around to watch recordings.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

texasbrit said:


> Yes, it's not a sham, it just has a set of rules that you don't like.


Rules that are conducive to wide interpretation are not good rules; especially when the only interpretation that counts is that of the rule maker at the instant that the interpretation is made. See more at "CSR Roulette".


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Aridon said:


> The 34 is inferior.


This is one beautiful, succinct post! Kudos!

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

harsh said:


> _*Rules that are conducive to wide interpretation are not good rules*_; especially when the only interpretation that counts is that of the rule maker at the instant that the interpretation is made. See more at "CSR Roulette".


Another understatement. We should all be thankful that they only make TV equipment, not cars or planes.

Rich


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## MikeW (May 16, 2002)

I complained for six months about my HR34 until they finally swapped me out to an HR44. Yes, the 34 was great when it came out, but they've done something over the last year to break it. There are far too many people who have similar issues for it to be anything other than software that just doesn't run as well on a 34.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

MikeW said:


> I complained for six months about my HR34 until they finally swapped me out to an HR44. Yes, the 34 was great when it came out, but they've done something over the last year to break it. There are far too many people who have similar issues for it to be anything other than software that just doesn't run as well on a 34.


I dont think it's just software myself.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

inkahauts said:


> I dont think it's just software myself.


Are you suggesting that the hardware has deteriorated?


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

inkahauts said:


> I dont think it's just software myself.


Could you expand upon that? I understand if you can't.

Rich


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## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

harsh said:


> Rules that are conducive to wide interpretation are not good rules; especially when the only interpretation that counts is that of the rule maker at the instant that the interpretation is made. See more at "CSR Roulette".


Well this particular rule isn't supposed to be subject to interpretation. Although I do think this should be specifically stated somewhere. I wonder how many posts there have been on the various forums from people expecting they could upgrade from an HR34 to an HR44.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

texasbrit said:


> I wonder how many posts there have been on the various forums from people expecting they could upgrade from an HR34 to an HR44.


As the advertising for the Protection Plan promises you "an upgrade to the latest equipment every 2 years", it is hard to imagine any other interpretation.

Reading the Protection Plan terms suggests that DIRECTV's idea of an upgrade is to add the latest technology, not upgrade any in-place technology. Whatever you do, it has to lock you into or extend your existing programming commitment.


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## joshjr (Aug 2, 2008)

If the original poster really wants a HR44, why doest he see if he DirecTV will refund him if he buys a HR44 on SolidSignal?


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

joshjr said:


> If the original poster really wants a HR44, why doest he see if he DirecTV will refund him if he buys a HR44 on SolidSignal?


Because DIRECTV won't allow them to add another Genie to the account.


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## joshjr (Aug 2, 2008)

harsh said:


> Because DIRECTV won't allow them to add another Genie to the account.


They will if he deactivates the HR34 and has the HR44 ready to add.


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## Aridon (Mar 13, 2007)

Because he was promised if he pays for a protection plan on leased gear he'd get the latest and greatest. Not that he'd pay for the plan, then have to shell out $200+ and still be under contract.

It's a stupid policy on a high profit item and even higher profit subscription service that is worthless to keep.

D*should be kissing these customers asses not making your best customers ticked off over a refurbished hr44 which has been paid for 3 times already.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

joshjr said:


> They will if he deactivates the HR34 and has the HR44 ready to add.


While it may or may not work, what you advocate doesn't seem to have much to do with the Protection Plan free upgrade.

Not having any Genie Minis would certainly be a plus in trying to execute an alternative approach like this but if there were any, I'm guessing the transition wouldn't be possible..


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

From the fine print



> This Plan includes the following enhanced coverage:
> - Repairs necessary for the product to meet the manufacturer's written specifications.
> - Power surge coverage not covered by any other warranty, service plan or any insurance policy.
> - Dedicated technical troubleshooting professionals
> ...


It would appear to me that the PP was designed to ADD receivers to the account, not upgrade existing (same class) receivers. The issue at hand is that DIRECTV® calls any addition or removal or downgrade of equipment an "upgrade". The plan also covers adding a Genie to the account, but since only one Genie is allowed, this will not permit "upgrading" the Genie to another model. If and when DIRECTV® allows multiple Genie on the account, this wont be an issue any longer, as the sub can order a second Genie but instead of adding it, it would be replacing an existing one. This can be done to "upgrade" exiting HR2x dual tuners DVRs. the sub can just call DIRECTV® and tell them they want to add an HDDVR as part of the upgrade offer, when they tech gets to the site, tell him that he is replacing not adding. The tech can modify the order while on site.


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## joshjr (Aug 2, 2008)

harsh said:


> While it may or may not work, what you advocate doesn't seem to have much to do with the Protection Plan free upgrade.
> 
> Not having any Genie Minis would certainly be a plus in trying to execute an alternative approach like this but if there were any, I'm guessing the transition wouldn't be possible..


I guess I disagree. I would imagine someone with a leased HR34 that wanted to move to a owned HR44 even with Mini's could get it done. In the past lots of people have used their free upgrade to get the receiver they want and have DirecTV refund then since they wont grantee anything. While I agree its more complicated in this case, (mini's and having to deactivate the HR34 first) I bet it could still be done.


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

Of course it can be done...if the computer system has rules to prevent a Mini on an account with no Genie they just deactivate the Minis too, activate the HR44 and then reactivate the Minis. They have no smartcard, so it really is trivial.

Honestly, the "only one Genie" issue is something that would stop me from going back to DirecTV, if I were so inclined. Having two TiVo Roamio Pros and 5 Minis has us spoiled. To get the same storage and even a close, but lesser, tuner count would require 2 Genies, 5 Minis AND two external 3TB drives. Alternatively, they could give us 6 HR24s and an H25, but I don't see them doing that without a major up-front hardware charge, and I'm not sure we want to start keeping track of what is getting recorded across 6 DVRs (although I do aspire to be like Rich someday  ).

They need to either fix the problem with the Minis and more than one Genie or come out with a new Genie that addresses the issue.


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## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

BearsAndCards said:


> Does the 44 have the same lag problems as the 34? I have friend with the 44 that does not have this problem.


The HR44 has a much better CPU.

And swapping any STB for a Mini is anything but a upgrade.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Diana C said:


> Alternatively, they could give us 6 HR24s and an H25, but I don't see them doing that without a major up-front hardware charge,


or Alternatively you could just buy them. Assuming they are $400 a piece, that is $2400. IIRC this is close to the amount you spend to get the Roamios and the minis....


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

I'd rather pay $400 for a Tivo Roamio Plus with 6 tuners and 1 TB hard drive and own it, than pay $400 for a 2 tuner HR24 that still is going to cost me $21 per month.

I'll pay my $19.95 per month with no upfront fees thanks. 
Even owning one without lifetime it's still only $15 per month and Minis don't have a monthly fee anymore.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Rich said:


> Could you expand upon that? I understand if you can't.
> 
> Rich


I just find it weird that so many have an issues (pixilation on a few specific channels) and that issue doesn't exist on any other receiver they have. And that they can't seem to fix that issue with software updates either. If they could have they would have by now. This issue is far and few between overall I imagine but it's also been around for over a year. I just get the feeling it's got bad tuner or processor somewhere.

And where there is one bad part I can imagine there are more.

I wasn't trying to say they are all bad. But was trying to say that not all the units with issues are simply because of software. I think some are hardware. Probably not even the majority of those with real issues. Most stuff they produce if it's a hardware issue its dead. This is one of the few I think that doesn't just die.

This is just my observations.


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## 456521 (Jul 6, 2007)

damondlt said:


> I'd rather pay $400 for a Tivo Roamio Plus with 6 tuners and 1 TB hard drive and own it, than pay $400 for a 2 tuner HR24 that still is going to cost me $21 per month.
> 
> I'll pay my $19.95 per month with no upfront fees thanks.
> Even owning one without lifetime it's still only $15 per month and Minis don't have a monthly fee anymore.


And they are so much faster (menu, on-screen display response time) than anything DirecTV has to offer. I didn't realize how far behind DirecTV was until I used the Roamio.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Drucifer said:


> _*The HR44 has a much better CPU.*_
> 
> And swapping any STB for a Mini is anything but a upgrade.


And yet, any good D* shill will tell you they're functionally equivalent. Mind boggling.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

inkahauts said:


> _*I just find it weird that so many have an issues (pixilation on a few specific channels) and that issue doesn't exist on any other receiver they have. And that they can't seem to fix that issue with software updates either. If they could have they would have by now. This issue is far and few between overall I imagine but it's also been around for over a year. I just get the feeling it's got bad tuner or processor somewhere.*_
> 
> And where there is one bad part I can imagine there are more.
> 
> ...


Yup, I agree. And those are the things that get blamed on the HDDs, too. I've had it happen to me so many times with many models of HRs. When it happens (gotta give them credit, haven't had a problem in a long time) to just one HR it's easy to see that it's a hardware problem. When it happens to them all (that's what I went thru when they changed UIs and implemented the DLBs) I know I've got to wait until a new NR appears. And when the problems are widespread as they were with the new UI and DLBs the NRs come pretty quickly. Those problems were obviously SW related.

As you said, most of them must work correctly. But to blame software for everything is wrong. Easy, but wrong. Just like blaming the HDDs for most problems.

Rich


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Rich said:


> But to blame software for everything is wrong.


If the only part of the configuration that changes is the software, it is illogical to blame anything else.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Rich said:


> And yet, any good D* shill will tell you they're functionally equivalent. Mind boggling.


I doubt anyone is trying to claim they're functionally equivalent. Newer hardware will benefit from technology improvements, though cost cutting can make things go the other way (as with H/HR20 -> H/HR21) Directv made a business decision to consider them to be the same class to maximize their depreciation.

Directv could solve a lot of this if their upgrade offers would allow either a move up in class as they do currently, or a move up within the same class. The problem there is some customers will not want to upgrade their HR34 to a HR44, if it means losing all their recordings and settings. They could create a way to transfer all that, but they're probably more focused on how to cut the cost of the Genie even more.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Rich said:


> And yet, any good D* shill will tell you they're functionally equivalent. Mind boggling.
> 
> Rich


I would call the HR34 and hr44 feature equivalent. I could never hold a strait face and call them functionally equivalent. If I could I would be a cia spy.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

inkahauts said:


> I would call the HR34 and hr44 feature equivalent. I could never hold a strait face and call them functionally equivalent. If I could I would be a cia spy.


Even that's not really true, as the HR44 can do wireless which the HR34 cannot.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

slice1900 said:


> Even that's not really true, as the HR44 can do wireless which the HR34 cannot.


but that can be ealily fix by adding a CCK-W at no charge to the custumer

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

peds48 said:


> but that can be ealily fix by adding a CCK-W at no charge to the custumer
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Kind of like saying an HR22 isn't feature equivelent to a HR23 because it needs BBCs in a non SWM environment.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

slice1900 said:


> I doubt anyone is trying to claim they're functionally equivalent.


DIRECTV seems to hold on pretty tight to that position.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

slice1900 said:


> _*I doubt anyone is trying to claim they're functionally equivalent.*_ Newer hardware will benefit from technology improvements, though cost cutting can make things go the other way (as with H/HR20 -> H/HR21) Directv made a business decision to consider them to be the same class to maximize their depreciation.
> 
> Directv could solve a lot of this if their upgrade offers would allow either a move up in class as they do currently, or a move up within the same class. The problem there is some customers will not want to upgrade their HR34 to a HR44, if it means losing all their recordings and settings. They could create a way to transfer all that, but they're probably more focused on how to cut the cost of the Genie even more.


I was serious about that. It's bothered me for years. To compare a Series 2 DVR to a 20-700 or a 24 and call them functionally equivalent is terribly misleading. That's been going on for years, I didn't just make that up. D* did and still holds fast to that paradigm. D* decided to make the 20-100 because it was cheaper to make. That did not start with the Series 2 HRs. The shills have posted those very words many times on this forum and I think we ran a thread about it.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

inkahauts said:


> I would call the HR34 and hr44 feature equivalent. I could never hold a strait face and call them functionally equivalent. If I could I would be a cia spy.


Thanx.

Rich


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## txfeinbergs (Nov 16, 2005)

Rich said:


> This is one beautiful, succinct post! Kudos!
> 
> Rich


Agreed. I dumped my 34 for a 44 by purchasing the upgrade myself. I got a decent deal, and the upgrade was definitely noticeable.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

txfeinbergs said:


> Agreed. I dumped my 34 for a 44 by purchasing the upgrade myself. I got a decent deal, and _*the upgrade was definitely noticeable.*_


And there, in a nutshell, is the answer. How could such a noticeable difference occur between "equivalent" devices. "Similar", I could buy, maybe "functionally similar". But there's no leverage in the truth.

Rich


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## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

inkahauts said:


> I would call the HR34 and hr44 feature equivalent. I could never hold a strait face and call them functionally equivalent. If I could I would be a cia spy.


Obviously I'm a CIA spy!! Although there's absolutely no doubt in my mind that the HR44 is a much better box than the HR34, they are strictly speaking "functionally equivalent" in almost every respect. I'm a software designer, and this issue comes up all the time. Functions say nothing about performance, just what a device can do. As one of the references on this says, "make a phone call" is a function. An "illuminated keypad" is a feature. "Ability to connect to the internet" is a function. "Built-in DECA" is a feature.
That's not to say I agree with the DirecTV policy, I think it's unnecessary and creates a bad feeling with DirecTV customers, and it should be changed.. But DirecTv can use whatever rules it wants particularly around a free program like an upgrade.


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## CraigerM (Apr 15, 2014)

Should they just phase out and not install the HR-34's anymore? Or will that not happen until the HR-44's replacement comes out?


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

CraigerM said:


> Should they just phase out and not install the HR-34's anymore? Or will that not happen until the HR-44's replacement comes out?


If you were the CEO, what would you do? Remember, you have to answer to your shareholders....


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

CraigerM said:


> Should they just phase out and not install the HR-34's anymore? Or will that not happen until the HR-44's replacement comes out?


They phase out receivers when they are fully depreciated, and probably amortize on a five year schedule. If you think they should phase out the HR34 now, how soon should they phase out the HR44 when it is replaced? Is the answer different depending on whether customers feel the new Genie is a massive improvement over the HR44, or is in fact a step back due to cost cutting?


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

texasbrit said:


> Obviously I'm a CIA spy!! Although there's absolutely no doubt in my mind that the HR44 is a much better box than the HR34, they are strictly speaking "functionally equivalent" in almost every respect. I'm a software designer, and this issue comes up all the time. Functions say nothing about performance, just what a device can do. As one of the references on this says, "make a phone call" is a function. An "illuminated keypad" is a feature. "Ability to connect to the internet" is a function. "Built-in DECA" is a feature.
> That's not to say I agree with the DirecTV policy, I think it's unnecessary and creates a bad feeling with DirecTV customers, and it should be changed.. But DirecTv can use whatever rules it wants particularly around a free program like an upgrade.


We I believe feel the same but have a difference of opinions on terminology. Features is what it can do. Howe it functions is about how well or fast it completes the functions. You seem to have a different opinion on that. I was using function as an verb not an adjatiave. How it actually functions. Not what functions it can complete. I used features for that.


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## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

inkahauts said:


> We I believe feel the same but have a difference of opinions on terminology. Features is what it can do. Howe it functions is about how well or fast it completes the functions. You seem to have a different opinion on that. I was using function as an verb not an adjatiave. How it actually functions. Not what functions it can complete. I used features for that.


 I'm going to stick with this definition. Features are what it has. Functions are things it carries out. Two products can be functionally equivalent even though one is faster than the other. But still, don't have any disagreement about the fact the HR44 is a much better box than the HR34, having had both of them


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

peds48 said:


> but that can be ealily fix by adding a CCK-W at no charge to the custumer
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Yeah....

In fact I actually prefer the HR34 in the area of WiFi connectivity options since having a separate CCK-W is more flexible than having that feature integrated in as with the HR44, as it can be placed at any convenient point of the SWiM coax network for best wireless performance without needing to drag the entire Genie with it.

If they would give the HR44 the option to disable the internal WiFi beyond just plugging in an active ethernet cable so you can use it with a CCK-W as well would be great.

But alas DIRECTV won't implement such a feature, so ...

Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

dpeters11 said:


> Kind of like saying an HR22 isn't feature equivelent to a HR23 because it needs BBCs in a non SWM environment.


Yep....

I once tried to split hairs with a DIRECTV retention rep. arguing that the HR44 should be considered an upgrade from the HR34 since it uses the superior 2.4 GHz RF4CE remote control technology over the HR34's slower conventional (400 MHz range?) RF remote feature like the other receivers.

Obviously it didn't work ... 

Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


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## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

Yes, they both have RF control so are "functionally equivalent".....


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

HoTat2 said:


> Yeah....
> 
> In fact I actually prefer the HR34 in the area of WiFi connectivity options since having a separate CCK-W is more flexible than having that feature integrated in as with the HR44, as it can be placed at any convenient point of the SWiM coax network for best wireless performance without needing to drag the entire Genie with it.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


While that's a good way to look at it, 
I would rather have an HR44 with a hornets nest attached to it and drag it all over the house then use an HR34 again period.


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## bakerfall (Aug 23, 2006)

I thought I would share my recent HR34 for HR44 swap experience as I think it sheds some light on to get it done.

I had an HR34 fail recently, after having had similar experiences with slowness people have described in this thread. Since I had lost my recordings already and needed to replace it, I didn't want to swap it with another HR34. My first call resulted in them replacing it and "requesting" an HR44, of course an HR34 was delivered. I called back and explained that I really didn't want another HR34 and would it be at all possible to get an HR44. The woman I spoke with on this call actually knew how to do this. As she described it to me, this is what is required. 

- Change the HR34 to an HR44 on my account, basically just changing the hardware as it is listed in their system
- Order the replacement receiver
- Change it back to an HR34

I was unsure whether this would work, but two days later an HR44 showed up on my porch. If you are able to find a rep with enough experience and desire to help, this method seems to work. Note, I went through retention to find that rep, I seriously doubt you would find that person in tier 1 support.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

It's hit or miss even with retention. 
Maybe if you take the tech out of the mix.

I was promised the HR44 after multiple unresolved HR34 complaints and Guess what the tech had in his van?

Yep see ya, call retention back tech paper work even said HR44. 
Sorry then see ya.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

texasbrit said:


> Yes, they both have RF control so are "functionally equivalent".....


Some day when RF4CE is more widely implemented, it will likely represent a big advantage. As it is now, the automation feature set of the HR34 is more comprehensive.


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## AmazinglySmooth (Oct 25, 2014)

Sometimes it is better to just leave the service and come back in a year or 2. There are always deals to be had.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

CraigerM said:


> Should they just phase out and not install the HR-34's anymore? Or will that not happen until the HR-44's replacement comes out?


Since you never know what you're gonna get as a "functionally equivalent" replacement, why would they phase out the 34s? They'll be around for a long time, I would think.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

bakerfall said:


> I thought I would share my recent HR34 for HR44 swap experience as I think it sheds some light on to get it done.
> 
> I had an HR34 fail recently, after having had similar experiences with slowness people have described in this thread. Since I had lost my recordings already and needed to replace it, I didn't want to swap it with another HR34. My first call resulted in them replacing it and "requesting" an HR44, of course an HR34 was delivered. I called back and explained that I really didn't want another HR34 and would it be at all possible to get an HR44. The woman I spoke with on this call actually knew how to do this. As she described it to me, this is what is required.
> 
> ...


Going to a tier 1 CSR is usually an act of futility.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

HoTat2 said:


> Yep....
> 
> I once tried to split hairs with a DIRECTV retention rep. arguing that the HR44 should be considered an upgrade from the HR34 since it uses the superior 2.4 GHz RF4CE remote control technology over the HR34's slower conventional (400 MHz range?) RF remote feature like the other receivers.
> 
> ...


You really gotta love this. Nothing aggravates me more than someone trying to baffle me with BS. "Functionally equivalent" is a poor excuse for unloading a poorly performing HR on someone. But, lemmings abound, and being baffled with BS is a constant in our society. Sadly.

Rich


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

OK, let's see if we can help the OP while he still struggles with the '34....

Where does slowness that bothers you occur most? 

What things have you tried to troubleshoot? 

How full is the HD?


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

AmazinglySmooth said:


> Sometimes it is better to just leave the service and come back in a year or 2. There are always deals to be had.


Sadly, that is what Directv encourages with this. Someone who signed up almost 10 years ago and got a few HR21s would never get them upgraded until they got a Genie offer and moved one of them to a HR34. They'll never get anything upgraded further until Directv has 4K equipment and he decides to take the plunge (and he'll get first gen 4K equipment that will probably be quickly replaced) Yet someone who leaves for Dish or cable after their two year contract is up and comes back when their commitment there is over stands a very good chance of getting newer equipment than the loyal customer!


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Is it different at DISH?


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Probably not, nor at most cable providers. I know my mom was unhappy when her cable company DVR broke down and they replaced it with an older model with less recording space. Not suggesting that sort of thing is unique to Directv, but it just adds another incentive for switchers who change providers every couple years to collect the new customer deals.

A year ago Directv reported it cost an average of $873 to acquire a new customer! Seems like putting some of that towards keeping existing customers around might be worth it.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Couldn't agree more. But averages may not be in large play here.


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## Bill Broderick (Aug 25, 2006)

Laxguy said:


> Is it different at DISH?


Does Dish have a program that they promote as allowing customers to upgrade their equipment every two years? I'm not being condescending, this is a real question.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Rich said:


> Since you never know what you're gonna get as a "functionally equivalent" replacement, why would they phase out the 34s? They'll be around for a long time, I would think.
> 
> Rich


I'm guessing two or three more years. I think they have been main stream for three now and I believe they haven't made any in a couple years. I believe it's a five year life for accounting purposes for all their stock of leased stuff. But could easily be wrong.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Laxguy said:


> Is it different at DISH?


Well of course sometimes with Dish, there are definite differences, like the Hopper then the Hopper with Sling. But they have a completely different hardware model.


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## camo (Apr 15, 2010)

This is why I won't upgrade to the genie. My HR-24-500's are perfect with no lag and I don't want to take a chance of getting the 34.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

camo said:


> This is why I won't upgrade to the genie. My HR-24-500's are perfect with no lag and I don't want to take a chance of getting the 34.


Id upgrade in a heart beat if I where you. and you just make sure you end up with a hr44. But it makes the hr24 look old and slow and a waste of your time. There's just no comparison to me.


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## fleckrj (Sep 4, 2009)

HoTat2 said:


> Yeah....
> 
> In fact I actually prefer the HR34 in the area of WiFi connectivity options since having a separate CCK-W is more flexible than having that feature integrated in as with the HR44, as it can be placed at any convenient point of the SWiM coax network for best wireless performance without needing to drag the entire Genie with it.
> 
> ...


The internal WiFi on the HR44 can be disabled through the setup menu. I have the CCK-W in my basement and the HR44 on the second floor with no problems. The HR44 and all of my other receivers are connected to the internet via coax, and WiFi on the HR44 is disabled.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

inkahauts said:


> Id upgrade in a heart beat if I where you. and you just make sure you end up with a hr44. But it makes the hr24 look old and slow and a waste of your time. There's just no comparison to me.


This is why I've never driven a Corvette. I'm pretty happy with the way things are now.

Rich


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## Bill Broderick (Aug 25, 2006)

camo said:


> This is why I won't upgrade to the genie. My HR-24-500's are perfect with no lag and I don't want to take a chance of getting the 34.


If you have no need for additional recordable tuners, that's fine. But, if the Genie would be useful to you, then it's easy to guarantee that you will get an HR44. You just need to be willing to reschedule an appointment if the tech doesn't have one when he calls you to confirm your appointment.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Rich said:


> This is why I've never driven a Corvette. I'm pretty happy with the way things are now.
> 
> Rich


Yeah you would end up with two or three corvettes if the way you keep DVRs is a pattern!


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## HaterSlayer (Mar 24, 2010)

HoTat2 said:


> Yep....
> 
> I once tried to split hairs with a DIRECTV retention rep. arguing that the HR44 should be considered an upgrade from the HR34 since it uses the superior 2.4 GHz RF4CE remote control technology over the HR34's slower conventional (400 MHz range?) RF remote feature like the other receivers.
> 
> ...


I don't know why you'd waste your time doing that. They don't make the rules and the system won't process the upgrade even if they agree with you(which they probably did).


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## WestDC (Feb 9, 2008)

REASON -because it's worth it


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

HaterSlayer said:


> I don't know why you'd waste your time doing that. They don't make the rules and the system won't process the upgrade even if they agree with you(which they probably did).


Because strangely enough at the time when this happened, perhaps 11/2 to 2 years ago, the rep. actually asked me for specific reasons why the HR44 should be considered as an upgrade over the HR34. and then entered my comments into the system.

Don't really know what that was about, but just assumed that maybe their system (at least the one available to the retention dept. anyway) could base decisions for certain upgrades on the strength of the reasons put forth for them.

And no, the rep didn't agree or disagree with my argument. In fact she didn't really understand what the RF4CE (Zigbee) standard even was. But the system rejected it as a valid argument.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

fleckrj said:


> The internal WiFi on the HR44 can be disabled through the setup menu. I have the CCK-W in my basement and the HR44 on the second floor with no problems. The HR44 and all of my other receivers are connected to the internet via coax, and WiFi on the HR44 is disabled.


I wasn't aware of that ...

Could you post a screen shot of the menu option on the HR44?

I'd be interested in seeing that as I was told a number of times by tech reports to never try and use a WiFi connection via a CCK-W with an HR44 in the system ...


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## west99999 (May 12, 2007)

HoTat2 said:


> I wasn't aware of that ...
> 
> Could you post a screen shot of the menu option on the HR44?
> 
> I'd be interested in seeing that as I was told a number of times by tech reports to never try and use a WiFi connection via a CCK-W with an HR44 in the system ...


Unless he/she has an option in the menu that no other HR44 has then no a screen shot would not be possible. :nono2:


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Laxguy said:


> Is it different at DISH?


In that DISH distinguishes between incremental levels of DVRs, it is different in the most important way.

If your Hopper w/Sling fails, they will replace it with a HWS. If you want to upgrade to an HWS from a Hopper, they'll do it without a lot of fuss (with the programming commitment associated with an upgrade).


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

west99999 said:


> Unless he/she has an option in the menu that no other HR44 has then no a screen shot would not be possible. :nono2:


One useful feature of a smartphone.


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## west99999 (May 12, 2007)

What would a smartphone have to do with anything?


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

west99999 said:


> What would a smartphone have to do with anything?


If the option were in there somewhere, it could provide evidence that the poster wasn't making it up.


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## fleckrj (Sep 4, 2009)

HoTat2 said:


> I wasn't aware of that ...
> 
> Could you post a screen shot of the menu option on the HR44?
> 
> I'd be interested in seeing that as I was told a number of times by tech reports to never try and use a WiFi connection via a CCK-W with an HR44 in the system ...


I will have to go through the initial setup again to figure out how i did it. That who have to wait until the weekend. In the mean time, here is a shot of the info screen that shows that the wireless is not configured and the Internet is via coax.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

harsh said:


> In that DISH distinguishes between incremental levels of DVRs, it is different in the most important way.


DISH has used the "functionally equivalent" line in the past. Your example of Hopper vs Hopper w/Sling is not functionally equivalent (hint: w/sling ... not an add on module). The 622 and 722 were annoyingly "functionally equivalent". Annoying for anyone who had a 722 replaced by a 622.


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## west99999 (May 12, 2007)

harsh said:


> If the option were in there somewhere, it could provide evidence that the poster wasn't making it up.


The point is that you cannot disable wireless through the menu. The only way to not use wireless on HR44 is either use a broadband deca or use ethernet directly to the receiver. 


fleckrj said:


> I will have to go through the initial setup again to figure out how i did it. That who have to wait until the weekend. In the mean time, here is a shot of the info screen that shows that the wireless is not configured and the Internet is via coax.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You will not find a way to do it as it can't be done.


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## fleckrj (Sep 4, 2009)

In the initial setup there was an option not to configure the wireless. That is what I did, because the router was too far away from the HR44 to get a good signal. I have a CCK in another location that connects all of my receivers to the internet via coax. The HR44 WiFi is not in use.


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## west99999 (May 12, 2007)

Yes if you hook up a broadband deca or ethernet then the receiver will connect via that method but you cannot go into the menu and just disable wifi through a setting. If you hooked up an external wifi deca then tried to connect a HR44 to it then the 44 would try connecting using the internal wifi.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

west99999 said:


> What would a smartphone have to do with anything?


I misread your post.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

west99999 said:


> The point is that you cannot disable wireless through the menu. The only way to not use wireless on HR44 is either use a broadband deca or use ethernet directly to the receiver.
> *You will not find a way to do it as it can't be done.*


Restoring network defaults will in fact "turn off" the wireless connection.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

west99999 said:


> Yes if you hook up a broadband deca or ethernet then the receiver will connect via that method but you cannot go into the menu and just disable wifi through a setting. *If you hooked up an external wifi deca then tried to connect a HR44 to it then the 44 would try connecting using the internal wifi.*


Not quite actually. If you connect using a CCK-W, the HR44 will treated as a BroadBand DECA. The "thing" I am not sure about is if the HR44 can configure the CCK-W. But assumption would be "no" since there is no need, but the CCK-K can be configure via web borrower.


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## fleckrj (Sep 4, 2009)

I configured the CCK-W from an HR21. There are multiple external WiFi networks within range of my HR44, but since I did not configure the WiFi on the HR44, it never tries to connect to them.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

fleckrj said:


> I configured the CCK-W from an HR21. There are multiple external WiFi networks within range of my HR44, but since I did not configure the WiFi on the HR44, it never tries to connect to them.


Ok, so AIUI now beyond plugging in an active ethernet cable there is no specific menu setting or other way to actually disable the internal WiFi radio of the HR44?

It may not connect to a router/AP if not configured as in your setup, but it will still be transmitting a WiFi signal?

Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

peds48 said:


> Not quite actually. If you connect using a CCK-W, the HR44 will treated as a BroadBand DECA. ...


If you are connecting via an external CCK-W, isn't the CCK-W itself acting as the (wireless) BB DECA?

The HR44 should now be just another MoCA client like any other receiver on the network (all be it, broadcasting a useless WIFi signal).

Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


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## fleckrj (Sep 4, 2009)

If it is broadcasting a WiFi signal, my laptop and android devices do not see it.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

inkahauts said:


> Yeah you would end up with two or three corvettes if the way you keep DVRs is a pattern!


Actually stood in a showroom and looked at a nice red one last year. $70,000. That's never gonna happen.

Rich


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

HoTat2 said:


> If you are connecting via an external CCK-W, isn't the CCK-W itself acting as the (wireless) BB DECA?
> 
> The HR44 should now be just another MoCA client like any other receiver on the network (all be it, broadcasting a useless WIFi signal).
> 
> Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


Yes, if you connect a CCK-W to an HR44, the Genie "thinks" is just a BroadBand DECA. When ever the HR44 connects any other way than with internal WiFi, it disables it internal wifi DECA


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## west99999 (May 12, 2007)

peds48 said:


> Not quite actually. If you connect using a CCK-W, the HR44 will treated as a BroadBand DECA. The "thing" I am not sure about is if the HR44 can configure the CCK-W. But assumption would be "no" since there is no need, but the CCK-K can be configure via web borrower.


Actually the only way the wifi deca would work is if it has already been setup using another type receiver or as you state it can be setup using a web browser. It will not allow you to set it up using a 44.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

west99999 said:


> Actually the only way the wifi deca would work is if it has already been setup using another type receiver or as you state it can be setup using a web browser. It will not allow you to set it up using a 44.


Exactly what I was thinking.


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## gordon1fan (Jun 27, 2007)

For starters, I'm a returning customer, not a new customer. From reading this post, I'm very nervous about my DIRECTV install coming up this Saturday. If the installer comes out of his van with a HR34 I'm going to be very upset! If he doesn't have a HR44, I'm going to send him back where he come from. Now if he wants to go back to his shop and return with a HR44, then I will be more then happen to reschedule my appointment.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

gordon1fan said:


> For starters, I'm a returning customer, not a new customer. From reading this post, I'm very nervous about my DIRECTV install coming up this Saturday. If the installer comes out of his van with a HR34 I'm going to be very upset! If he doesn't have a HR44, I'm going to send him back where he come from. Now if he wants to go back to his shop and return with a HR44, then I will be more then happen to reschedule my appointment.


No need to be upset, DIRECTV® did not guarantee that you will be getting one, you would most def get a Genie though. Instead of wasting the tech's time, when he calls ask him what he has, if he does not have a 44, call DIRECTV® and reschedule. Keep playing the game until you get a 44. Don't be upset when you have the 44 and DIRECTV® releases the 54 or 64 or what ever is coming down the pipeline....


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## west99999 (May 12, 2007)

If you are in Talladega you will get a 44 on Saturday.


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