# PBS HD



## lacruz (Feb 24, 2005)

Anybody know is Dish is planning on adding Local PBS HD Channels to our Local HD Packages? Thanks...


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

lacruz said:


> Anybody know is Dish is planning on adding Local PBS HD Channels to our Local HD Packages? Thanks...


Several months ago, someone associated with Dish said they'd negotiate with PBS. So it will be...soon.


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## finniganps (Jan 23, 2004)

I wish they would add that....we'll see.


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## mdewitt (Sep 21, 2006)

I have PBS HD OTA and the picture looks better than anything on Dish. I don't know if we just have a good local station (49.1 Western Reserve in Cleveland/Akron) or if PBS is that good across the board. The other local OTA's aren't quite as crisp ( I am only 4 miles away from the tower though). I could almost cancel Dish and live with PBS alone. I was amazed that PBS wasn't included in the HD locals when they turned them on for Cleveland. They do replay a lot of stuff, but they still put out more new stuff than I can watch before the DVR fills up. Hopefully it shows up soon for those who can't get it OTA.


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## garys (Nov 4, 2005)

mdewitt said:


> I have PBS HD OTA and the picture looks better than anything on Dish. I don't know if we just have a good local station (49.1 Western Reserve in Cleveland/Akron) or if PBS is that good across the board. The other local OTA's aren't quite as crisp ( I am only 4 miles away from the tower though). I could almost cancel Dish and live with PBS alone. I was amazed that PBS wasn't included in the HD locals when they turned them on for Cleveland. They do replay a lot of stuff, but they still put out more new stuff than I can watch before the DVR fills up. Hopefully it shows up soon for those who can't get it OTA.


Dish doesn't offer PBS HD except in Alaska and Hawaii.


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## moman19 (Oct 22, 2004)

mdewitt said:


> I have PBS HD OTA and the picture looks better than anything on Dish. I don't know if we just have a good local station (49.1 Western Reserve in Cleveland/Akron) or if PBS is that good across the board. The other local OTA's aren't quite as crisp ( I am only 4 miles away from the tower though). I could almost cancel Dish and live with PBS alone. I was amazed that PBS wasn't included in the HD locals when they turned them on for Cleveland. They do replay a lot of stuff, but they still put out more new stuff than I can watch before the DVR fills up. Hopefully it shows up soon for those who can't get it OTA.


Here in St. Louis, the PBS station transmits FOUR sub-channels, including the national HD feed. As a result, the image quality is sub-par as far as HD goes and obviously bit-starved. Quick motion will often cause macro-blocking. I have no way to measure, but the image appears to be downconverted to 480p---about the same quality as a standard DVD. In other words, it's 16 x 9 and good but not great.


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## harmil2 (Nov 22, 2003)

I use to have c-band and ota pbs HD and it was wonderful...really miss it since I moved and lost both. I really hope Dish can get PBS in HD soon as I really cut back watching anything but News Hour and occasionally Frontline. Science and nature shows are especially great in HD. Heck, I would even enjoy Jim Leahr in HD. PBS and Comedy Central (love Stewert and Colbert) are the only sd I ever watch now and the picture really is lame compared to HD.


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## Artorture (Feb 23, 2008)

DirecTV is already rolling PBS in HD in markets. Why are they always a step ahead of Dish?


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

They waste alot less subscription money on lawsuits.


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## jclewter79 (Jan 8, 2008)

They also charge more subscription money to make up for their extra options.


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## CorpITGuy (Apr 12, 2007)

phrelin said:


> They waste alot less subscription money on lawsuits.


We have a winner!


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## bjamin82 (Sep 4, 2007)

jclewter79 said:


> They also charge more subscription money to make up for their extra options.


Like What?


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## jclewter79 (Jan 8, 2008)

bjamin82 said:


> Like What?


Their packages cost more money because of the high prices that they pay for exclusive packages such as Sunday Ticket. Sunday Ticket can not break even just by the people that subscribe to it alone. Not even close.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Perhaps the packages do cost more, but as far as I know the charge for locals is the same. And I'm not so sure about the packages costing more. Depends a great deal on what you feel you want. Nothing simple about the comparisons except for what HD channels we at Dish don't get.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

phrelin said:


> And I'm not so sure about the packages costing more.


Somehow the ARPU (average revenue per unit) at DIRECTV is quite a bit higher than at DISH Network. The most recent numbers are:

DIRECTV ARPU: $83.59
DISH ARPU: $69.82

Considering that these are average numbers, there are quite a few subscribers dropping some relatively big money. DIRECTV subscribers pay almost 20% more _per month_ on average for programming and equipment than do DISH Network subscribers.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

harsh said:


> Somehow the ARPU (average revenue per unit) at DIRECTV is quite a bit higher than at DISH Network. The most recent numbers are:
> 
> DIRECTV ARPU: $83.59
> DISH ARPU: $69.82
> ...


That's true, but that doesn't mean that comparable packages cost significantly more. What we don't know is the relative number that choose those expensive sports package add-ons as well as premiums.

The problem with ARPU is that it is an average.

If Dish had more customers like me, their ARPU would be higher. If I hadn't really wanted some of the SD channels in the AT200 package this past year, I would have dropped down to the pre-Turbo HD Absolute. I also chose to have Platinum and four premiums (including 1 cent Cinemax).

The more interesting statistics would be the lower quartile and upper quartile figures.


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## jclewter79 (Jan 8, 2008)

phrelin said:


> Perhaps the packages do cost more, but as far as I know the charge for locals is the same. And I'm not so sure about the packages costing more. Depends a great deal on what you feel you want. Nothing simple about the comparisons except for what HD channels we at Dish don't get.


Maybe, being as how you do not have the option to not have locals with D* I don't know. In my DMA D* does not carry locals so you get $3 a month knocked off for the trouble. In that respect I could be said that locals are cheaper with D*. The point I was trying to show was that D* included and charges for things without giving you the choice as to wheather you want it or not. The fact that D* does not have a HD only package is a good example of less choice=more cash. Sometimes I get bothered when D* has a channel I want and E* does not but, in the end I would rather have options to pay for only what I want.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

harsh said:


> Somehow the ARPU (average revenue per unit) at DIRECTV is quite a bit higher than at DISH Network. The most recent numbers are:
> 
> DIRECTV ARPU: $83.59
> DISH ARPU: $69.82


A $14 difference ... pretty good considering DirecTV has been running about $10 more per subscriber for a while. It probably reflects the extras that DirecTV has available, such as MLB/NHL and the requirement to buy a SD package to add $10/$15 HD instead of having HD only options.

DirecTV doesn't have an "AT100" equivalent package ... pushing people to an "AT200" equivalent.
Four million DISH customers at AT100 forced to pay $12 more for AT200 would raise the ARPU $3.70 or so.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

James Long said:


> A $14 difference ... pretty good considering DirecTV has been running about $10 more per subscriber for a while. It probably reflects the extras that DirecTV has available, such as MLB/NHL and the requirement to buy a SD package to add $10/$15 HD instead of having HD only options.
> 
> DirecTV doesn't have an "AT100" equivalent package ... pushing people to an "AT200" equivalent.
> Four million DISH customers at AT100 forced to pay $12 more for AT200 would raise the ARPU $3.70 or so.


Dish does not offer HD only as of right either...a little tid bit I found out when they screwed up my package, and then told me they could not put me back on the HD Absolute (HD only) package because it stopped being offered in August. However if you had it by then, you are grandfathered into it. They say it will be offered again in Feb 09, but until then if you want All the HD channels you have to have the AT250....so due to them screwing it up they are now giving me the AT 250 and all the HD for the same price i was paying for the HD ABsolute, until they offer it again, then I can jump back on....but any way...yeah, Dish as of right now does not offer it.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

texaswolf said:


> Dish as of right now does not offer it.


Yes they do ... any new customer can subscribe to Turbo HD "HD Only" packages ranging from $24.99 to $54.99 depending on level and options. Some existing customers have been able to get these packages as well on a case by case basis. You have apparently done even better with your special deal.

Even if "restrictions apply" the Turbo HD packages _are_ and offering of DISH Network.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

James Long said:


> Yes they do ... any new customer can subscribe to Turbo HD "HD Only" packages ranging from $24.99 to $54.99 depending on level and options. Some existing customers have been able to get these packages as well on a case by case basis. You have apparently done even better with your special deal.
> 
> Even if "restrictions apply" the Turbo HD packages _are_ and offering of DISH Network.


yeah i'm glad they did make it right with my deal.

I'm just going by what 2 account specialist told me, and that was there is no HD only pack available until Feb. Now they may be doing another deal where new subs get the perks, but thats just what they said, other wise they would have just put me on one to make it right instead of putting me on the at250 in order to get all the HD, which thy said was the only possible way to do it...i dunno


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## ans2004 (Oct 28, 2008)

dish should pull the rag out of their a$$ and stuff it in their mouth. if they would play nice with others, instead of losing lawsuits, they would'nt have pay out millions. they lost at&t, lost subscribers in several quarters this year, lost lawsuits (tivo), and dropped voom hd without warning to their valued customers. great customer service --- keep up the good work charlie! as far as directv, they will have a all hd package this february, my guess, along with a price increase of course (dish will to). directv will have the mlb network in hd on the 1st of jan. and they are giving pbs hd to current markets that they provide hd in. they do give you the option to have no locals when you order, $4.99 is deducted. remember, by mid year 2009, directv will have the new tivo units available. these new units will make the dvr option more attractable to new subscribers.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

ans2004 said:


> das far as directv, they will have a all hd package this february, my guess, along with a price increase of course (dish will to).


Bet you're all wet on the all HD package front from DIRECTV. Their business model is built around charging everyone for a qualifying SD package.


> and they are giving pbs hd to current markets that they provide hd in.


DISH does this too; they just aren't as far along in deployment.


> they do give you the option to have no locals when you order, $4.99 is deducted.


The deduction is $3 and it is unknown if this option will continue. They also make OTA considerably more difficult for their HD customers.


> remember, by mid year 2009, directv will have the new tivo units available.


Even the DIRECTV faithful aren't looking for the new TiVo powered DVRs until well into 2010.

Just a little help for the criminally misinformed.


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## jclewter79 (Jan 8, 2008)

I wonder how popular that TIVO unit will be when the HR series is the one that new installs will be getting for free. Then, after you pay extra for it look for double the DVR charge and, mostly likely per unit.


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## CorpITGuy (Apr 12, 2007)

If it weren't for the poor DVR, I would've gone with DirecTV a long time ago. Dish has them beaten... badly. I did have a TiVO for a short period of time and miss it badly. Internet scheduling, intelligent content management, frequent updates (streaming video, etc.)... ABILITY TO SYNC TO MY PC! Ahhh, I miss my TiVO. But I digress.


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## archer75 (Oct 13, 2006)

Artorture said:


> DirecTV is already rolling PBS in HD in markets. Why are they always a step ahead of Dish?


Always? Dish was leading in HD for what? 2 years? And dish is the first and only to offer an HD only package.

My problem with direct is their packages are so damn expensive compared to dish. And their DVR can't record sat and OTA at the same time. It's one or the other on only 2 tuners. With dish you can record 3 at a time one of those being OTA.


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## DodgerKing (Apr 28, 2008)

archer75 said:


> Always? Dish was leading in HD for what? 2 years? And dish is the first and only to offer an HD only package.
> 
> My problem with direct is their packages are so damn expensive compared to dish. *And their DVR can't record sat and OTA at the same time.* It's one or the other on only 2 tuners. With dish you can record 3 at a time one of those being OTA.


Yes they can. You can only record 2 programs at once: two OTA, two satellite, or one of each.


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## archer75 (Oct 13, 2006)

DodgerKing said:


> Yes they can. You can only record 2 programs at once: two OTA, two satellite, or one of each.


I was told it was one or the other but not both. I'm also referring to their newer receiver and the OTA add on that you have to buy.
Either way it can't do 3 at once and I do use that on dish from time to time.


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## peak_reception (Feb 10, 2008)

harsh said:


> Just a little help for the criminally misinformed.


 That's harsh


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## DodgerKing (Apr 28, 2008)

archer75 said:


> I was told it was one or the other but not both. I'm also referring to their newer receiver and the OTA add on that you have to buy.
> Either way it can't do 3 at once and I do use that on dish from time to time.


That I do not know. The HR20 is capable of recording both OTA and a Direct channel at the same time. The HR21 with the added external OTA tuner MAY only be able to do one or the other. I will check into it and let you know.

You are correct about only recording two at once. None of Direct's receivers are able to record three at one time, including their TiVO's.

I am not going to argue that Dish's receivers are not any better than Direct's. Even though I have never used a Dish receiver, from everything I have read, their receivers are superior to Direct's. I just think Direct's receivers are not as bad as many on these forums lead others to believe.


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## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

archer75 said:


> I was told it was one or the other but not both. I'm also referring to their newer receiver and the OTA add on that you have to buy.
> Either way it can't do 3 at once and I do use that on dish from time to time.


Which E* receiver do you have that can record 3 shows at the same time?

The ViP722's product brochure and ViP622's brochure state:


> Single Mode: Picture-In-Picture (PIP) available on any TV, watch/record two live programs, record two live programs, record two live programs while watching a pre-recorded program


The 612's brochure says:


> Watch a program while recording another program, or record two live programs while watching a pre-recorded program


I'd think if any of these really does 3 channels simultaneously they would brag about that.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

It does record three programs ... two from satellite and one OTA.
The new 722k w/OTA module will be able to record four (two satellite/two OTA) at once.

Yes, all feeds being recorded CAN be HD.


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## archer75 (Oct 13, 2006)

Both the 622 and 722 can do it. I have owned the 622 and have recorded 3 shows at once.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Since this thread title says "PBS HD", thought I'd mention that new PBS HD locals were not mentioned on the Charlie Chat.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

Kheldar said:


> Which E* receiver do you have that can record 3 shows at the same time?
> 
> The ViP722's product brochure and ViP622's brochure state:
> 
> ...


i record 3 HD programs at the same time, quite a bit....2 off my sat, and one off my OTA (which gives me my PBS HD). Trust me...you can do it.


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## jclewter79 (Jan 8, 2008)

Kheldar;1913523
I'd think if any of these really does 3 channels simultaneously they would brag about that.[/QUOTE said:


> Yes, the 622 the 722 and the 612 are all capble of this. On my 722 I have actually recorded three shows and played back 2 on different tv sets at the same time.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

jclewter79 said:


> Yes, the 622 the 722 and the 612 are all capble of this. On my 722 I have actually recorded three shows and played back 2 on different tv sets at the same time.


same here, i was very impressed when i was able to do it.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

One of the first things I did with my 622 ... just to prove it could be done. Record three HD feeds at the same time and watch two other HD feeds previously recorded. Considering that the same receiver can now do all that while downloading video on demand off of the internet there is a lot that can be going on at the same time (and the new 722k w/OTA module can record 2 OTA 2 sat + internet all at the same time).


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