# Interesting comment by DTV tech.



## jbauer (Aug 23, 2007)

Hi All,

So today, during my visit by a badged DTV tech, he mentioned that the HR22 was the best receiver that DTV has had, since it uses Intel chips, and all the others are using AMDs...

I love my 24-500, so I'm not complaining, but what do y'all think?

- Jon


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

He's wrong. :lol:


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## Kevin F (May 9, 2010)

Not true. They all use broadcom SoC's except for the HR24-500 which uses an NXE chip.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

jbauer said:


> Hi All,
> 
> So today, during my visit by a badged DTV tech, he mentioned that the HR22 was the best receiver that DTV has had, since it uses Intel chips, and all the others are using AMDs...
> 
> ...


Total BS ! No one of the STB using Intel nor AMD processors/significant chips.

Oh boy !


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Kevin F said:


> Not true. They all use broadcom SoC's except for the HR24-500 which uses an NXE chip.


Well, not like that - only last model using Broadcom SoC, all other with BCMs are not running SoC, and some of them using Conexant/etc chips.


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## jbauer (Aug 23, 2007)

Wow, dude seems to have been completely mis-informed!

- Jon


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## Kevin F (May 9, 2010)

"P Smith" said:


> Well, not like that - only last model using Broadcom SoC, all other with BCMs are not running SoC, and some of them using Conexant/etc chips.


Oh alright. Thanks for the correction. I knew something didn't sound quite right.


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## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

Yep...and the number of splitter ports determines how many tuners you can have...the HR20-100 doesn't work with DECA...multiswitches can be used with SWMLnbs.................


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## Kevin F (May 9, 2010)

"dsw2112" said:


> Yep...and the number of splitter ports determines how many tuners you can have...the HR20-100 doesn't work with DECA...multiswitches can be used with SWMLnbs.................


The HR20-100 can work with DECA with a splitter with the module going to the 2nd sat port and the other split line into the 1st sat port


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## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

Kevin F said:


> The HR20-100 can work with DECA with a splitter with the module going to the 2nd sat port and the other split line into the 1st sat port


That's the only one you picked on? If you re-read the post you'll probably get the sarcasm 

Hint: Things said by D* techs that aren't true.


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

dsw2112 said:


> Yep...and the number of splitter ports determines how many tuners you can have...the HR20-100 doesn't work with DECA...multiswitches can be used with SWMLnbs.................


:lol:

- Merg


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## WestDC (Feb 9, 2008)

What happened to all the left over commodore 64 Chips; they were used in the hr20's


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## johnp37 (Sep 14, 2006)

jbauer said:


> Hi All,
> 
> So today, during my visit by a badged DTV tech, he mentioned that the HR22 was the best receiver that DTV has had, since it uses Intel chips, and all the others are using AMDs...
> 
> ...


This "tech" would fit right in at Best(worst)Buy. Clueless, misinformed. Pick one.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

jbauer said:


> Hi All,
> 
> So today, during my visit by a badged DTV tech, he mentioned that the HR22 was the best receiver that DTV has had, since it uses Intel chips, and all the others are using AMDs...
> 
> ...


He probably didn't even know that there are two 22s. The 22-100 and the 22-200. In any event, that was an idiotic statement to make. The installer's training program must be really improving.

Rich


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

That's not at all the kind of "training" any tech is going to get. DirecTV has zero interest in paying to train techs to know what kind of chipsets are in their receivers. For the most part, they don't want anyone to know or care.

But in situations like that, there's always going to be a handful of guys who make up stuff because they want to look smart, or who hear something from someone else and pass it on without any official verification. Happens in all tech fields; it's human nature.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

BattleZone said:


> That's not at all the kind of "training" any tech is going to get. DirecTV has zero interest in paying to train techs to know what kind of chipsets are in their receivers. For the most part, they don't want anyone to know or care.


I'd think that part of the training would be not to make any stupid remarks, just stick to what you know. I was taught that during my electrical apprenticeship. We were told that most people wouldn't understand us and it was best to keep our mouths shut and get the job done.



> But in situations like that, there's always going to be a handful of guys who make up stuff because they want to look smart, or who hear something from someone else and pass it on without any official verification. Happens in all tech fields; it's human nature.


Agreed. Some people just want to sound smart. I was told by one installer that they were told to keep their eyes out for OSHA inspectors. How could you possibly do that? They don't ride around in trucks with OSHA printed on the sides of the trucks. The sit in offices waiting for the phone to ring and someone to complain about a safety issue that is not being addressed by their management. They'll immediately respond to catastrophes, but for the most part the employee has to make the call. That installer had no idea how that process worked.

Rich


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## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

Techs can be a clueless as CSR's.

One tech insisted that there was only one OTA tuner in my HR20-700, pointing out that there was only one antenna connection on the back of the DVR. Since I knew I had one bad tuner I insisted he replace the unit.

OTOH, there are good techs and good CSR's to be found.


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## canesice (Jul 11, 2009)

WestDC said:


> What happened to all the left over commodore 64 Chips; they were used in the hr20's


the 6510 microprocessor is used in new staplers


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## mthompso105 (Mar 21, 2007)

canesice said:


> the 6510 microprocessor is used in new staplers


They could use the SID64 chip for making beeps & boops.:grin:


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

WestDC said:


> What happened to all the left over commodore 64 Chips; they were used in the hr20's


Doubtful, but even if so, those were pretty reliable chips, which may be why the HR20 typically runs rings around all of the other DVRs (other than of course the HR24 and up) and has a widely-held reputation for better speed and reliability than they do.


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## whieb (Mar 17, 2010)

now before i say anything, im not saying he was right. i do understand where he is coming from because some hr-22 receivers have an intel sticker on the front. 

if its not for the processor what piece inside is made by intel?


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

whieb said:


> now before i say anything, im not saying he was right. i do understand where he is coming from because some hr-22 receivers have an intel sticker on the front.
> 
> if its not for the processor what piece inside is made by intel?


That was probably due to Media Share. I don't use it much, but "back in the day" it had Intel logos in the menu, it was based on Intel Viiv I believe. Not sure if it's based a sucessor to that or not though, it didn't work well for me and I haven't tried it again. But nothing to do with the processor, and it was supported by all the HD boxes, except the H20 (no network jack.)


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Oh dear. That's a very sad statement by the tech. 

And BTW the intel logos on some HR2x devices refer to their compatibility with the now-defunct Intel Viiv standard.


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## DesertWind53 (May 29, 2007)

Is this the guy by chance?


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## David Ortiz (Aug 21, 2006)

Reminds me of the time the employee at Home Depot was telling me how much better RG-59 was than the RG-6 I was asking about.


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

David Ortiz said:


> Reminds me of the time the employee at Home Depot was telling me how much better RG-59 was than the RG-6 I was asking about.


Well, 59 is that much higher than 6.

- Merg


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## kenglish (Oct 2, 2004)

David Ortiz said:


> Reminds me of the time the employee at Home Depot was telling me how much better RG-59 was than the RG-6 I was asking about.


59 minus 6=53 times as good. :sure:


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## oldengineer (May 25, 2008)

canesice said:


> the 6510 microprocessor is used in new staplers


Hey! I was Product Engineer for the 6502 family in 1979 at a long defunct company in Silicon Valley - Synertek.

In the early 80s Synertek was the fastest growing semiconductor company in the USA. We made 6502 family devices which were used in Apple II and III machines and ROMS used in Atari games. Then came 1984 - the video game craze died and Apple introduced the Mac, which used the 68000. Synertek died in Dec 1984.


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## xmetalx (Jun 3, 2009)

David Ortiz said:


> Reminds me of the time the employee at Home Depot was telling me how much better RG-59 was than the RG-6 I was asking about.


Bwhahahaha! :lol::lol:


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Ask a small child if they prefer a dime or a nickel....


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

David Ortiz said:


> Reminds me of the time the employee at Home Depot was telling me how much better RG-59 was than the RG-6 I was asking about.


Those Home Depot guys are priceless! And some are clueless. Last year I needed a large whetstone to sharpen my machetes (snakes, long story) and I asked a guy in the Tools area if they had any large whetstones. His reply was, "We only have dry stones." Dead serious.......:lol:

Rich


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## n3ntj (Dec 18, 2006)

jbauer said:


> Hi All,
> 
> So today, during my visit by a badged DTV tech, he mentioned that the HR22 was the best receiver that DTV has had, since it uses Intel chips, and all the others are using AMDs...
> 
> ...


This badged D* tech appears to be seriously misinformed.


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

Which is why he works at Home Depot.

Actually, I prefer RG-59 for short runs and jumpers, just because it is easier to work with and easier to hide. Other than attenuation over distance, they are electrically exactly the same, making one as good as the other for short distances.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

TomCat said:


> Which is why he works at Home Depot.
> 
> Actually, I prefer RG-59 for short runs and jumpers, just because it is easier to work with and easier to hide. Other than attenuation over distance, *they are electrically exactly the same*, making one as good as the other for short distances.


As long as there is no DC.


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

veryoldschool said:


> As long as there is no DC...


I hope you aren't assuming that attenuation over distance doesn't apply to DC. Ohm's law has not yet been repealed, IIRC.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

TomCat said:


> I hope you aren't assuming that attenuation over distance doesn't apply to DC. Ohm's law has not yet been repealed, IIRC.


I tend to distinguish between attenuation [RF] and resistance [DC], which was why my comment.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> I tend to distinguish between attenuation [RF] and resistance [DC], which was why my comment.


I wonder if we'll live long enough to see a super-conductor that works at room temp? That would transform (no pun intended) our lives in a most beneficial way.

For those of you who don't understand what a super-conductor does, basically it is a conductor that has little or no resistance.

A quick definition of attenuation is: To reduce (the amplitude of an electrical signal) with little or no distortion.

Rich


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

rich584 said:


> I wonder if we'll live long enough to see a super-conductor that works at room temp? That would transform (no pun intended) our lives in a most beneficial way.
> 
> For those of you who don't understand what a super-conductor does, basically it is a conductor that has little or no resistance.
> 
> ...


I don't look at DC as being "a signal".


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

veryoldschool said:


> I don't look at DC as being "a signal".


Why not ?

Especially for non-SWM setup: the "DC" is carry 22 KHz 300 mV tone to switch sats.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> I don't look at DC as being "a signal".


From an electrical point of view, it isn't. And isn't RG59 smaller in size than RG6 and therefore more resistant to current flow? Using either AC or DC. I don't have an instrument that can measure the difference without having a huge length of each cable available.

The reason I put the definition of attenuation in that post was because I had to look it up. Had no idea what it meant.

Rich


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

P Smith said:


> Why not ?
> 
> Especially for non-SWM setup: the "DC" is carry 22 Khz 300 mV tone to switch sats.


I see in your example two things: one is DC and the other is a signal @ 22KHz.
Maybe it's just my "mindset", but a signal needs to have a cycle.
Now this isn't clear cut, since a voltage can "signal" a switch, but I generally look at DC [and AC power] as a non signal, since they tend to be continuous.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

rich584 said:


> From an electrical point of view, it isn't. *And isn't RG59 smaller in size than RG6 and therefore more resistant to current flow? *Using either AC or DC. I don't have an instrument that can measure the difference without having a huge length of each cable available.
> 
> The reason I put the definition of attenuation in that post was because I had to look it up. Had no idea what it meant.
> 
> Rich


As with any gauge difference, yes one will have more/less resistance and a voltage drop depending on current flow.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

veryoldschool said:


> I see in your example two things: one is DC and the other is a signal @ 22KHz.
> Maybe it's just my "mindset", but a signal needs to have a cycle.
> Now this isn't clear cut, since a voltage can "signal" a switch, but I generally look at DC [and AC power] as a non signal, since they tend to be continuous.


We can easily overlook the root of the discussion if we will do scholastic.

That's why I put in my phrase words about DTV setup/cabling.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> As with any gauge difference, yes one will have more/less resistance and a voltage drop depending on current flow.


Oh, goody! I got something right!

Rich


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

rich584 said:


> ...isn't RG59 smaller in size than RG6 and therefore more resistant to current flow? Using either AC or DC...


It is. For RF signals, RG59 will attenuate a signal or voltage about 33% more for a given length. The first rule of thumb example you learn as a cable TV designer (well, the first rule circa 1984) is that 100 ft of RG6 will lose 3 dB at channel 13, and that 100 ft of RG59 will lose 4 dB at channel 13.

Coax has a response curve, meaning it attenuates more or less depending on the frequency. What I meant by "electrically the same other than attenuation over distance" is that the response curve to frequency, from DC to whatever zillion gigahertz, is exactly the same for both, even though at any given frequency, i_ncluding DC,_ one will attenuate more. But since the curve is a mathematical formula, that is predictable, and how that affects the signal is no different other than _the amount _of attenuation.

That is actually the most fundamental rule regarding cable plant design. The distance from the center-conductor to the shield and the size of the center-conductor are what determines that curve, and the proportions for both RG6 and RG59 are designed the same so that they will have the same response curve. RG58 has proportionally a different design and a different response curve. So does audio coax, and so does electrical wiring.

RG6 and RG59 have the same curve, on purpose, so they can do essentially the same job. The only differences are in attenuation and physical size. 133 ft of RG6 will treat any DC or broadband signal exactly like 100 feet of RG59 will. The destination device (i.e. STB) does not care nor does it have any earthly idea how the signal got there, just that it looks exactly the same to its input.



veryoldschool said:


> I tend to distinguish between attenuation [RF] and resistance [DC], which was why my comment.


I find that ultimately confusing at best. As long as we are going to school here, the definition of attenuate is "to weaken in force or intensity", while the definition of electrical resistance is "a material's opposition to the flow of electric current, measured in ohms". Since resistance is what causes the attenuation of signal or DC voltages, it would be splitting hairs very finely to not agree that we are talking about the same identical process when referring to either, and that these are essentially the same thing.

When speaking about the DC loop resistance of a wire (which is I think what we are discussing), a drop of the voltage based on the amount of resistance per unit length multiplied by the number of units of length (the distance) is nearly a textbook definition of attenuation.

That you may regard it a different way inside your own mind does not invalidate that definition for the rest of us.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

TomCat said:


> It is. For RF signals, RG59 will attenuate a signal or voltage about 33% more for a given length. The first rule of thumb example you learn as a cable TV designer (well, the first rule circa 1984) is that 100 ft of RG6 will lose 3 dB at channel 13, and that 100 ft of RG59 will lose 4 dB at channel 13.
> 
> Coax has a response curve, meaning it attenuates more or less depending on the frequency. What I meant by "electrically the same other than attenuation over distance" is that the response curve to frequency, from DC to whatever zillion gigahertz, is exactly the same for both, even though at any given frequency, i_ncluding DC,_ one will attenuate more. But since the curve is a mathematical formula, that is predictable, and how that affects the signal is no different other than _the amount _of attenuation.
> 
> ...


Good explanation, one thing I don't understand is this part: electrically the same other than attenuation over distance" is that the response curve to frequency, from DC to whatever zillion gigahertz, is exactly the same for both, even though at any given frequency, i_ncluding DC,_ one will attenuate more. .

DC has no frequency. That makes me unable to understand that part.

Rich


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

TomCat said:


> I find that ultimately confusing at best.


"Fine", but since RF basically doesn't have a current component of any significance and normally DC does, I'll use what works better for me to visualize in my mind as I need to figure this out.
Please use whatever you want to do the same for you.

This has wandered so far from my comment/reply to you as to become ridiculous.
RG-59 can't carry the same current as RG-6 can. "end of report".


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

rich584 said:


> Good explanation, one thing I don't understand is this part: electrically the same other than attenuation over distance" is that the response curve to frequency, from DC to whatever zillion gigahertz, is exactly the same for both, even though at any given frequency, i_ncluding DC,_ one will attenuate more. .
> 
> *DC has no frequency. That makes me unable to understand that part.
> *
> Rich


Bingo!


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> "Fine", but since RF basically doesn't have a current component of any significance and normally DC does, I'll use what works better for me to visualize in my mind as I need to figure this out.
> Please use whatever you want to do the same for you.
> 
> This has wandered so far from my comment/reply to you as to become ridiculous.
> RG-59 can't carry the same current as RG-6 can. "end of report".


 from what I see, rg6 is 18ga and rg59 is 20ga.. and looking at some general charts for wire sizes, current ratings for 59 is about 75% of 6..

current ratings are important for carrying the power to the lnb..
freq ratings are important for carrying the signals..

in any case the better the cable, the less problems you have..


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

houskamp said:


> from what I see, rg6 is 18ga and rg59 is 20ga.. and looking at some general charts for wire sizes, current ratings for 59 is about 75% of 6..
> 
> current ratings are important for carrying the power to the lnb..
> freq ratings are important for carrying the signals..
> ...


Stop being reasonable/rational, as it gets in the way of a good cat fight/pissing contest. :lol:


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

> DC has no frequency. That makes me unable to understand that part.


It is !  Just it's value eq 0 Hz.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

P Smith said:


> It is !  Just it's value eq 0 Hz.


:lol: but then it doesn't have a component of time.  [OK the component is infinite]


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

veryoldschool said:


> ...RG-59 can't carry the same current as RG-6 can. "end of report".


Let's stop the madness. Who here ever disagreed with that? You must be very confused, because I carefully included a disclaimer for "attenuation over distance" twice, and gave an example of how it can indeed carry the same current, allowing that disclaimer. I'll give it again, and I will even s p e a k m o r e s l o w l y t h i s t i m e:

If you inject a signal into 3 times X ft of RG59 and 4 times X ft of RG6, the signal at the other end will be attenuated exactly the same, and the signals will be exactly identical. That means that the current at that characteristic impedance at the output is the same. Since I disclaimed attenuation over distance, you can not cry foul that the lengths are different. Disregarding distance, which is what I originally did, the end result is still the same, which still means that disregarding attenuation, they are again electrically identical (which is what you were disputing), and not even that, the amount of current flow is identical, meaning they can indeed carry the same current. THAT is the end of the report.



veryoldschool said:


> ...since RF basically doesn't have a current component of any significance and normally DC does...


Any electrical signal of any, even the tiniest significance, has current. Electrons do not flow without current, and signals do not move from place to place without electron flow, or current. Even an "insignificant" current flow is still current, and can still move signals from source to destination, RF included. I feel funny saying that because it really should go without saying; this is what is discussed on the first day of Electronics 101.

And we are also not agreed that DC doesn't have a frequency. DC does indeed have a frequency, and that frequency is zero, by definition. A frequency very close to that, as another example, may be 0.0000001 Hz. If you graph attenuation (not including DC resistance) vs frequency on an X-Y graph, both are points on that mathematical curve, just like every other frequency. Zero is the point at the theoretical beginning of that curve for both attenuation (not including DC resistance) and frequency, and infinity is at the far end point of that curve, which is also, coincidentally, where both frequency and attenuation (not including DC resistance) are plotted at that end.

Since the plot of the frequency of DC is zero and it crosses the both the frequency or Y axis and the X or attenuation (not including DC resistance) axis at zero, then that particular frequency has no bearing on the attenuation, but only because of where it lies on that curve, not because it does not exist as part of the equation. Any number plus or minus zero is that number unchanged, so for zero, it solves out of the equation for either attenuation or frequency. But that does not mean it is not a part of the original equation or the 2-dimensional graph plot that resolves from that equation.



veryoldschool said:


> ..I'll use what works better for me to visualize in my mind as I need to figure this out.
> Please use whatever you want to do the same for you.


Again, you can crank up your reality distortion field as high as you like for your own peace of mind, just don't expect anyone else to fall for it, or to follow suit. Unlike a few others I do not base what I post on lame ad-hoc constructs designed to fit a warped sense of fantasy; I deal in reality.

Home schooling is apparently probably not a good idea.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

TomCat said:


> Again, you can crank up your reality distortion field as high as you like for your own peace of mind, just don't expect anyone else to fall for it, or to follow suit. Unlike a few others I do not base what I post on lame ad-hoc constructs designed to fit a warped sense of fantasy; I deal in reality.
> 
> Home schooling is apparently probably not a good idea.


With all due respect: "stuff it".
I've been taught be some of the smartest & brightest and the point is to realize how things work. To visualize these in the mind's eye.
If your mind's eye, needs to use another visualization that's fine, but it isn't everyone's.
Mine isn't any better than yours, and yours isn't any better than mine, as long as each of us grasp the concepts correctly.

This simply all comes down to you not liking that I had a comment directed at you about RG59/RG6. "Live with it".


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> With all due respect: "stuff it".
> I've been taught be some of the smartest & brightest and the point is to realize how things work. To visualize these in the mind's eye.
> If your mind's eye, needs to use another visualization that's fine, but it isn't everyone's.
> Mine isn't any better than yours, and yours isn't any better than mine, as long as each of us grasp the concepts correctly.
> ...


The fact is that coax cable has at least two kinds of losses at RF, while DC has only one, resistance. Treating them the same introduces errors, mostly in precision.

I do find it entertaining at times to watch the angels dance on those pin heads, however.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

hasan said:


> The fact is that coax cable has at least two kinds of losses at RF, while DC has only one, resistance. Treating them the same introduces errors, mostly in precision.
> 
> I do find it entertaining at times to watch the angels dance on those pin heads, however.


AC/RF doesn't have P= I²R, [or I² loss] which is how/why I tend to think of them differently.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

P Smith said:


> It is !  Just it's value eq 0 Hz.


If I remember correctly, 0 is not a value. Rather a lack of value.

Flat line on a silly scope....:lol:

Rich


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## lcisupply (Mar 21, 2011)

DTV doesnt really tell technicians what kind of hardware is in the receivers. They just tell them how to install it.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

lcisupply said:


> DTV doesnt really tell technicians what kind of hardware is in the receivers. They just tell them how to install it.


Which is as it should be if they are "installers". Techs are a different breed. I think. A rare breed.

Rich


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