# Dish won't allow me to have another Hopper?



## ukwes21 (Apr 11, 2007)

Going to talk to Ray and see if he can help.


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## thomasjk (Jan 10, 2006)

How many do you have? I believe 2 is the lease limit. If more than that you need to purchase one.


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## ukwes21 (Apr 11, 2007)

I had one installed yesterday and with a Joey and I haven't been impressed with the tuner situation and though I could switch out my Joey for another Hopper. Dish online rep is telling that you are not allowed to have 2 hoppers. I know that is not true since multiple people on here have 2 Hoppers. I'm going to talk to Ray tomorrow to see if he can help me.


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## ken1403 (Sep 16, 2006)

I changed a joey for a hopper after my install of 1 hopper and 3 joey's. It will not be free. The standard lease fee is $100.00 unless you can get a better deal. I now have 2 hopper's and 2 joey's and am very happy for the most part.


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## ukwes21 (Apr 11, 2007)

I told them I understand that I will have to pay for it. But they said you are not allowed to have 2 hoppers. Which is why I am all confused.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

ukwes21 said:


> I told them I understand that I will have to pay for it. But they said you are not allowed to have 2 hoppers. Which is why I am all confused.


I am not a dish person but I read a lot.
I think I have read that you can not have just hoppers, you must have hoppers and joeys.
If you kept the joey and added another hopper and possibly another joey.
??????


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## thomasjk (Jan 10, 2006)

ukwes21 said:


> I'm going to talk to Ray tomorrow to see if he can help me.


Best way to do it.


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## garys (Nov 4, 2005)

It was my understanding that 2 Joeys are needed with 2 Hoppers.


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## bobukcat (Dec 20, 2005)

jimmie57 said:


> I am not a dish person but I read a lot.
> I think I have read that you can not have just hoppers, you must have hoppers and joeys.
> If you kept the joey and added another hopper and possibly another joey.
> ??????


Nah, there are plenty of us with two Hoppers and no Joeys. He just needs to get help from the DIRT folks on here, I'm sure they will clear it up.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

garys said:


> It was my understanding that 2 Joeys are needed with 2 Hoppers.


The "normal" way of ordering a system has Hoppers and Joeys ... but one can always return equipment. Setting up 2 hoppers and 2 or more Joeys then cancelling the unneeded Joeys is one way around the order system. Getting a DIRT member who can set up the special order is the other way.

It is best when the two Hoppers are installed up front ... then the installer does not have to come back and install the duo node.


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## 356B (Oct 11, 2008)

When Hopper was released I got 2 Hoopers and 1 Joey...nothing is set in stone, with exception of a 2 Hopper lease limit... which I would like to see change.....


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## RasputinAXP (Jan 23, 2008)

more than 2 hoppers is...technologically interesting.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

RasputinAXP said:


> more than 2 hoppers is...technologically interesting.


But not that hard to do. The hardest part is having the fifth DISHPro feed to feed the second hub. A duo hub serving two hoppers works nicely on a stock 1k LNB (either western or eastern arc) or a DPP44. But adding the hub for the third hopper requires a feed that isn't there unless one chains two DPP44s off of their dish (and once someone does that the door is open for a second duo hub ... four hoppers).

Tying the two systems together isn't hard in a three Hopper system - although at some point the MoCA bandwidth is going to get saturated. That could happen if there were several Joeys on the system and the Hoppers were all trying to talk to the Joeys and each other at the same time.


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## 3HaloODST (Aug 9, 2010)

If you can't get any help with getting another Hopper just keep the Joey you already have, order another Hopper and another Joey, then return the unneeded Joeys when you get the new Hopper installed.

James Long: I used a DPP44 and a DPP33. I think I was the first one on these and other various Dish forums to realize that you can just daisy chain the nodes for MoCA communication.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

I forget about the DPP33 ... but I also have four orbitals (EA + 118) so the DPP44s would be in my solution. With only two hoppers it is easier to run the node right off of the dish and use the input on the 1k4 to add 118.


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## 3HaloODST (Aug 9, 2010)

Very true. In my case, I only need 3 orbitals (Hoppers are on WA 110/119/129, unrelated but I have the 722k on EA 61.5/72.7/77,) so the cheaper DPP33 works plus the added benefit of one less power inserter needed  .

Curious, what receivers (and how many) do you have?


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## Grandude (Oct 21, 2004)

3HaloODST said:


> Very true. In my case, I only need 3 orbitals (Hoppers are on WA 110/119/129, unrelated but I have the 722k on EA 61.5/72.7/77,) so the cheaper DPP33 works plus the added benefit of one less power inserter needed  .


I have in my existing system a DPP44 and a DP34 feeding 3 VIP622/722s and a couple of 211s and am thinking I would like to leave them in the system when I convert to the H/J, two Hoppers and two Joeys, sytem as my internal wiring is all set up this way but am curious about what you mean for daisy chaining the MoCa for the Joeys.

Would it be possible to supply a simple diagram of how your system is set up?


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## garys (Nov 4, 2005)

Grandude said:


> I have in my existing system a DPP44 and a DP34 feeding 3 VIP622/722s and a couple of 211s and am thinking I would like to leave them in the system when I convert to the H/J, two Hoppers and two Joeys, sytem as my internal wiring is all set up this way but am curious about what you mean for daisy chaining the MoCa for the Joeys.
> 
> Would it be possible to supply a simple diagram of how your system is set up?


Unfortunately, Dish will not allow you to do this. Only 211 can remain with H/J, but only if owned and with RV exemption.


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## RasputinAXP (Jan 23, 2008)

James Long said:


> But not that hard to do. The hardest part is having the fifth DISHPro feed to feed the second hub. A duo hub serving two hoppers works nicely on a stock 1k LNB (either western or eastern arc) or a DPP44. But adding the hub for the third hopper requires a feed that isn't there unless one chains two DPP44s off of their dish (and once someone does that the door is open for a second duo hub ... four hoppers).
> 
> Tying the two systems together isn't hard in a three Hopper system - although at some point the MoCA bandwidth is going to get saturated. That could happen if there were several Joeys on the system and the Hoppers were all trying to talk to the Joeys and each other at the same time.


QED...'interesting'


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## FarmerBob (Nov 28, 2002)

If you can get the the "schematic" that was drawn and mentioned at this link, it will show you how to do it. Ya gotta dig. I did and finally found it. But that was a long time ago, otherwise I would have posted the direct link. Sorry.

http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/298065-3-hopper-install


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## Grandude (Oct 21, 2004)

garys said:


> Unfortunately, Dish will not allow you to do this. Only 211 can remain with H/J, but only if owned and with RV exemption.


I should have been clearer. I didn't mean to leave the VIPs in the system, just meant to leave the DPP44 and DP34 in the system.


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## Grandude (Oct 21, 2004)

FarmerBob said:


> If you can get the the "schematic" that was drawn and mentioned at this link, it will show you how to do it. Ya gotta dig. I did and finally found it. But that was a long time ago, otherwise I would have posted the direct link. Sorry.
> http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/298065-3-hopper-install


Thanks, that was perfect. Since I have all the hardware already installed, the DPP44 and DP34 switch, I could add a third Hopper quite easily if I wanted to purchase one. Not sure but would expect that I might have to get a DPP33 switch to replace the DP34 but that would be an easy swap with all the cables there and in place.


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## garys (Nov 4, 2005)

Grandude said:


> I should have been clearer. I didn't mean to leave the VIPs in the system, just meant to leave the DPP44 and DP34 in the system.


How many Hoppers are you looking at getting? You need one coax for each Hopper and all the Joeys are connected on the one coax from the node, so 2 Hoppers and all Joeys would only need three outputs from the switch. No second switch would be needed at all.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Grandude said:


> Not sure but would expect that I might have to get a DPP33 switch to replace the DP34 but that would be an easy swap with all the cables there and in place.


You will need to swap the DP34 for the DPP33. The hopper node expects DPP connections to the inputs.

(DPs can only put feeds from one satellite on a coax ... DPP can put the feed of two satellites on a coax. To feed the three tuners on the Hopper, the node needs to be able to split the inputs between more than one satellite location.)



garys said:


> You need one coax for each Hopper and all the Joeys are connected on the one coax from the node, so 2 Hoppers and all Joeys would only need three outputs from the switch. No second switch would be needed at all.


Hoppers need unique feeds from a NODE not a switch. A duo node feeds two Hoppers, a solo node feeds one Hopper. One would need a duo node and a solo node to feed three Hoppers.

Then one has to deal with the inputs to the nodes. The duo node needs three DPP inputs, the solo node needs two DPP input. A three Hopper system needs five DPP inputs. One can feed four DPP inputs off of a DPP44 or three DPP inputs from a DPP33 ... to get five DPP feeds to feed five DPP inputs one needs two DPP switches.

(It might appear to work with less ... but there are combinations of viewing and recording that will cause a system that does not have all of the feeds to fail.)


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## 3HaloODST (Aug 9, 2010)

Grandude said:


> Thanks, that was perfect. Since I have all the hardware already installed, the DPP44 and DP34 switch, I could add a third Hopper quite easily if I wanted to purchase one. Not sure but would expect that I might have to get a DPP33 switch to replace the DP34 but that would be an easy swap with all the cables there and in place.


You're welcome for the diagram. Even if my phone signature annoys you :hurah: .

Hopper requires DPP equipment. You'd need either the DPP33 or another DPP44.


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## Grandude (Oct 21, 2004)

garys said:


> How many Hoppers are you looking at getting? You need one coax for each Hopper and all the Joeys are connected on the one coax from the node, so 2 Hoppers and all Joeys would only need three outputs from the switch. No second switch would be needed at all.


Originally planned to get 2H and 2J but considering that I have a DPP44 already, I started thinking of 3H and 2J, with the thought of returning one J or 1 H or keeping them depending on how I end up configuring my system.


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## Grandude (Oct 21, 2004)

James Long said:


> You will need to swap the DP34 for the DPP33. The hopper node expects DPP connections to the inputs.
> 
> (DPs can only put feeds from one satellite on a coax ... DPP can put the feed of two satellites on a coax. To feed the three tuners on the Hopper, the node needs to be able to split the inputs between more than one satellite location.)


I kinda guessed that would be the case.



James Long said:


> Hoppers need unique feeds from a NODE not a switch. A duo node feeds two Hoppers, a solo node feeds one Hopper. One would need a duo node and a solo node to feed three Hoppers.


Thats where the diagram from Halo comes in handy. If I do decide to do this I want to be able to show the installer how to do it.:grin:



James Long said:


> Then one has to deal with the inputs to the nodes. The duo node needs three DPP inputs, the solo node needs two DPP input. A three Hopper system needs five DPP inputs. One can feed four DPP inputs off of a DPP44 or three DPP inputs from a DPP33 ... to get five DPP feeds to feed five DPP inputs one needs two DPP switches.


Thanks for your expertise. It's nice to have a better idea of how things work.
(I always tell my wife it's magic)


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## Grandude (Oct 21, 2004)

3HaloODST said:


> You're welcome for the diagram. Even if my phone signature annoys you :hurah: .
> 
> Hopper requires DPP equipment. You'd need either the DPP33 or another DPP44.


Yup, got that and thanks again for the diagram without the signature.

We are currently experiencing severe weather here, 2 3/4 inches rain overnight and flooding all over the place along with tree limbs down, etc. Hope my power holds through the football games today. I do have a UPS at my TV and Dish system, a UPS at my computers, and a smaller UPS out in the garage feeding the power to the DPP44 and a Cable amp for my basic cable and internet.

Had the cable diplexed with the dish feed to the back bedroom just to see if I could do it. Worked fine but have pulled that out since I plan on putting a Hopper back there for my wife's exclusive use.

I have to check my cable labeling to make sure it is all current and correct, and then wait for the storms to pass. I want to get this done before 12/21/12.:grin:
Total rain since Wednesday: 7 inches.


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## 3HaloODST (Aug 9, 2010)

This site doesn't allow phone signatures  .

You've only got 19 days to accomplish this, good luck  .

Also, as you may or may not know, you'll have to purchase the third Hopper. Dish will only lease up to 2 Hoppers and 4 Joeys. I originally got 2H/2J from Dish, then purchased the third one a couple of months later when I realized I needed more tuners. I installed it myself so I wouldn't have to pay Dish to do it. However, if you purchase Hopper #3 beforehand and order the 2H/2J, you should be able to use that diagram to show the installer how to do it. You can always return unwanted Joeys later.


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