# Instant replay in little league.



## yosoyellobo (Nov 1, 2006)

Just saw a batter get hit be the ball and the umpire call it a foul tip. It was overturn by instant replay in only 50 seconds from the time he was hit. In the major they would have been arguing for two or three minute and the manager would have been thrown out.


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

Yea, thats one of the major reasons I am not subscribing to Extra Innings next year. The majors are just a bunch of drugged up, overpaid babies. This LLWS has been a real refreshing look at what baseball is supposed to be.

BTW, if the Texas manager had appealed, the kid would have been called out. He never attempted to get out of the way of the pitch. Texas missed two appeals that would have gone their way in two days. They won, so it all worked out. That was one hell of a throw from Center field to third base. I couldnt throw a ball that far and hit the mark.


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

yosoyellobo said:


> Just saw a batter get hit be the ball and the umpire call it a foul tip.


I think you mean foul *ball*. There can *never *be a foul tip if the ball hits the batter.


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

Davenlr said:


> This LLWS has been a real refreshing look at what baseball is supposed to be.


Little League has lost its soul with the introduction of replay as they have done.


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## yosoyellobo (Nov 1, 2006)

Lord Vader said:


> I think you mean foul *ball*. There can *never *be a foul tip if the ball hits the batter.


You are right the ball did hit the batter but the umpire did call it a foul ball.


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

That's completely different from a foul tip, which is what you had said it was.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Lord Vader said:


> I think you mean foul *ball*. There can *never *be a foul tip if the ball hits the batter.


But that doesn't mean the ump can't call it a foul tip. Obviously, he didn't think it hit the batter.


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## yosoyellobo (Nov 1, 2006)

My bad. It would have been a foul tip if the catcher had hung on to the ball. Any way the play was overturn in 50 seconds from the time the batter was hit.


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

spartanstew said:


> But that doesn't mean the ump can't call it a foul tip.


Yes it does. If he thinks it *did *hit the batter, it cannot be a foul tip. If he *doesn't* think it hit the batter, he can call it a foul tip.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

spartanstew said:


> But that doesn't mean the ump can't call it a foul tip. Obviously, he didn't think it hit the batter.





Lord Vader said:


> *Yes it does*. If he thinks it *did *hit the batter, it cannot be a foul tip. *If he doesn't think it hit the batter, he can call it a foul tip.*


First you say it does mean the up can't call it (Yes it does), and then you say that he can (if he doesn't think it hit the batter, he can call it a foul tip).

So, which is it?

Of course it can't be a foul tip if the ump knows it hit the batter, that's not even part of the equation. Guess what? He can't call it a home run if it hits the batter either.

The discussion was about a WRONG call that an umpire made. The ball hit the batter and the ump called it a foul tip (because he didn't know it hit the batter). You came in and said that's impossible (for the ump to make the call he did). No, it's not impossible. Umps make wrong calls all the time.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Lord Vader said:


> Little League has lost its soul with the introduction of replay as they have done.


Spoken as a true umpire, which you are, who never think they're wrong.


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

Spoken like a true fan, who are presumptuous and unknowledgeable.I am a veteran umpire who will never believe he's "never wrong." We're human. One need not be an umpire to realize Little League has lost its soul, and not just because of the introduction of instant replay, which is a travesty at that level especially.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Lord Vader said:


> Spoken like a true fan, who are presumptuous and unknowledgeable.I am a veteran umpire who will never believe he's "never wrong." We're human. One need not be an umpire to realize Little League has lost its soul, and not just because of the introduction of instant replay, which is a travesty at that level especially.


Why else has it lost it's soul?

I realize there are those lunatic parents who ruin the fun. Also, there are the cases of using older players. These may be contributors, but how is instant replay at a world championship tournament a travesty?


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## yosoyellobo (Nov 1, 2006)

Soon or later Major League Baseball will have to go instant replay. Imagine in twenty or thirty years watching a game in an twenty foot ultra hd tv and not having instant replay. The collage kids would have a beer drinking game base on every time the umpire blew the call.


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

sigma1914 said:


> Why else has it lost it's soul?
> 
> I realize there are those lunatic parents who ruin the fun. Also, there are the cases of using older players. These may be contributors, but how is instant replay at a world championship tournament a travesty?


One excellent article on this.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Lord Vader said:


> One excellent article on this.


From the author:


> I'm against replay, in any form or sport.


So, officials are always right no matter what & fans must accept blatant missed calls? Yeah, that's fair. 
If the technology is there, then use it. Humans make mistakes & should not affect outcomes of games. Look at last years Big 12 title game...the officials damn near blew the end of the game affecting who goes to the national title game.
It seems two groups oppose instant replay...Officials & "Purists."


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

sigma1914 said:


> So, officials are always right no matter what


Do not infer that which I never implied. Whether officials are right or wrong in baseball, instant replay has absolutely NO place in Little League Baseball.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Lord Vader said:


> Do not infer that which I never implied.


I was responding to the author and his "article."


> Whether officials are right or wrong in baseball, instant replay has absolutely NO place in Little League Baseball.


In your opinion. I tried engaging you in a discussion about this, but you just keep stating opinions with no reason.


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

The author makes a very good case for no replay in Little League. A very limited use in MLB is one thing, especially since it's used across the entire league, but in Little League, its use is unnecessary and creates a disadvantage. Furthermore, it doesn't help the kids as they grow up.


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

Lord Vader said:


> in Little League, its use is unnecessary and creates a disadvantage. Furthermore, it doesn't help the kids as they grow up.


Disadvantage how? A 45 second break in the game flow?

And what lesson does getting a play call correct have anything to do with helping the kids as they grow up? What are we supposed to teach them? Should we have the coaches do like the big leagues and go out on the field and kick dirt on the umpire and get thrown out of the game for poor sportsmanship? Even if you know the runner was safe but the umpire called him out, dont say anything and maybe no one will ever know? Guess all those Wall st guys were old school little leaguers.

FWIW, they asked all the volunteer umpires, who I believe go through at least 10 yrs of training to get to umpire the LLWS, and they did *not* have any problem with the use of instant replay. If its ok with the umpires, and instituted fairly, I dont see the problem.

If you noticed, several replays were left as inconclusive. There were some blatant (to TV viewer) miscalls, that were not even challenged. It did not appear to be overused.


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

It's not overused because a team is allowed only one challenge. As far as LL umpires (I used to do that level earlier in my career), the current ones at this World Series and the preceding regionals are not that impressive, an alleged "10 years training" notwithstanding.

In MLB replay cannot be a disadvantage because it's accessible to all teams at the same time and in the same manner. It's used in a very limited capacity, when an umpire's eyes and ears cannot humanly tell if a ball hit a railing, went out in flight, etc.

In LL Baseball, it's not used universally and consistently. It also teaches the kids a poor lesson in baseball and life.


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

Lord Vader said:


> In LL Baseball, it's not used universally and consistently. It also teaches the kids a poor lesson in baseball and life.


OK, we know we cant have 9 HD cameras on every LL field. Give me an example of how this teaches kids a poor life lesson?


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

I think the author did that rather well in his article about replay in LL Baseball.


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

Lord Vader said:


> I think the author did that rather well in his article about replay in LL Baseball.


I read the article, and found nothing but a major rant on freezing in his seat while refs in the NFL went under the hood.

If you are suggesting he is correct in that we should teach the entire team a life lesson that life isnt fair, by having a blown call cause them to lose a game they should have won, then I would have to disagree.

As for the tears and forgiveness stuff in MLB where the pitcher got robbed of his perfect game, well, thats the exception, not the rule. And the fact the commissioner did not reverse it, speaks volumes about him as a person.


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

I do not like Selig, but the fact that he _*didn't*_ reverse it was the best and only decision he could have made. To have reversed it would have made a mockery of the game itself.

For those who believe he should have reversed it, using their logic, I ask this: what if that call by Jim Joyce had been the _*first *_ call of the game, after which Galarraga retired every other batter? Should Selig have reversed that? If yes, then what about the resulting mess created by the batters who followed? If no, then there is no consistency in one's claim he should have reversed it in the 9th.


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

I dont much care actually. I quit watching mid-season, and wont be resubscribing next year. Im still wanting to hear why you think replay is teaching little league kids a bad life lesson.

BTW, if the bank makes an error and takes $100 out of your account you didnt spend, do you just chalk it up to a human error, or do you request the bank to "go under the hood" and figure out where they made a mistake?


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

You're comparing apples to oranges, which doesn't surprise me.

Instant Replay in LL Baseball is far different.


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

Well, since you wont give me any examples for my questions, I dont see any point in continuing.


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

The most logical thing you've said all day.


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## yosoyellobo (Nov 1, 2006)

LLWS officials happy with instant replay.

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/llws10/news/story?id=5509918

I really believe this is something MLB should look into.


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