# DIRECTV vs. DISH (was: D* vs. E*)



## Cyphernaut

Ok, not trying to start a flamewar here, this is not a direct vs dish question, for which there probably isn't a single uniform answer, but a direct vs dish for my specific needs, for which maybe there is.

I signed up for direct while at best buy the other day, but have postponed the install date since, to give me more time to really determine if that's the best for me. I'm having a really tough time sorting through the opinions and details of each, since there are nuances that are hard to compare, like the packages don't correlate exactly, etc.

My wife and I's interests in order are:
1) HD Movies and HD programming (i've been spoiled on hd and can't really stand sd anymore).
2) PQ
3) Local networks in HD (not sure if this has to be local, just like seeing my fav shows on ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox).
4) DVR features, record time, and useability
5) Ability to "expand" dvr with external harddrive, also *the ability to export shows off the dvr to my computer for archiving* (via firewire or whatever - I currently due this on time warner's box with a firewire driver - if it can be done, i can figure it out).
6) Price (knowing that I'll likely be getting a full package with every HD channel, special movie channels, dvr's for two tv's (maybe 3), and the playboy channel (is this in HD yet?)

That's about it. I would really appreciate any opinions based on these needs! I have very little interest in watching sports, save occasionally watching my home team, LA Lakers.

As a side note, does either system come with sirius or xm subscription? (as in you can use it in your car, etc.) Or just for the TV?

Thanks in advance!


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## turey22

Cyphernaut said:


> Ok, not trying to start a flamewar here, this is not a direct vs dish question, for which there probably isn't a single uniform answer, but a d* vs e* for my specific needs, for which maybe there is.
> 
> I signed up for direct while at best buy the other day, but have postponed the install date since, to give me more time to really determine if that's the best for me. I'm having a really tough time sorting through the opinions and details of each, since there are nuances that are hard to compare, like the packages don't correlate exactly, etc.
> 
> My wife and I's interests in order are:
> 1) HD Movies and HD programming (i've been spoiled on hd and can't really stand sd anymore).
> 2) PQ
> 3) Local networks in HD (not sure if this has to be local, just like seeing my fav shows on ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox).
> 4) DVR features, record time, and useability
> 5) Ability to "expand" dvr with external harddrive, also *the ability to export shows off the dvr to my computer for archiving* (via firewire or whatever - I currently due this on time warner's box with a firewire driver - if it can be done, i can figure it out).
> 6) Price (knowing that I'll likely be getting a full package with every HD channel, special movie channels, dvr's for two tv's (maybe 3), and the playboy channel (is this in HD yet?)
> 
> That's about it. I would really appreciate any opinions based on these needs! I have very little interest in watching sports, save occasionally watching my home team, LA Lakers.
> 
> As a side note, does either system come with sirius or xm subscription? (as in you can use it in your car, etc.) Or just for the TV?
> 
> Thanks in advance!


:welcome_s

The XM and Sirius is only for the TV so no using it in the car 

I like the PQ and the HD programming but don't watch much TV since I have school and work. But I know someone here will anwser these questions for you.

Oh, you can add a External HDD to the HDDVR (and I think the R22, which is an SD DVR) but it has to be an eSATA drive.


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## archer75

1. Dish has the most HD. 

2. debatable, in the past I would say dish. However I have not had direct recently to compare and everything changes.

3. you'd have to check your area for both dish and direct

4. it's widely agreed upon that dish has the better receivers. I haven't had a direct receiver in years so the only reason for me why dish has better receivers is that with an antenna I can record 3 HD shows at once. Read up on the upcoming dish VIP922 receiver. I think you'll be impressed.

5. you can add external hard drives on both. With direct the external hard drive essentially replaces the internal. With dish the external drive is an extension of the original. Gettings shows stored on your computer would require hacking the receivers as this isn't supported on either.

6. you'd have to go to each website and compare pricing for the channels that you care about. For me dish is cheaper. For others direct is cheaper. It all depends. Dish has some HD only packages that saves money.

Neither service has a sat radio subscription you can use in your car. But they both have it to listen to via the tv.


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## jclewter79

If you want the most national HD channels, and the most HD premium movies channels. E* is the one for you. How many HDTV's do you have and how many SDTV's do you have? Will all of these need DVR service?


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## uscboy

You're not going to get "export" functionality with either Dish or Direct.

Your best bet is a Hauppauge HD PVR:

http://www.hauppauge.com/site/products/data_hdpvr.html

Ripping via the Component outputs. I don't believe you'll find direct Firewire 
like the cable boxes have.

Sorry I can't help with the rest really, not that much experience with Dish, 
only a few folks I know have it. I think the HD content and PQ on Direct is 
great though! And as already pointed out, an eSATA drive can be used 
instead of the internal drives in the DirecTV DVRs.

Playboy is $12.99/month, not sure on HD, but I don't think so.


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## joshjr

jclewter79 said:


> If you want the most national HD channels, and the most HD premium movies channels. E* is the one for you. How many HDTV's do you have and how many SDTV's do you have? Will all of these need DVR service?


If you want Sports programming D* is the ONLY way to go. D* is miles and miles above E*!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## uscboy

joshjr said:


> If you want Sports programming D* is the ONLY way to go. D* is miles and miles above E*!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





Cyphernaut said:


> I have very little interest in watching sports, save occasionally watching my home team, LA Lakers.


Apparently not an issue as stated in the orignal post.


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## lparsons21

Cyphernaut said:


> My wife and I's interests in order are:
> 1) HD Movies and HD programming (i've been spoiled on hd and can't really stand sd anymore).
> 2) PQ
> 3) Local networks in HD (not sure if this has to be local, just like seeing my fav shows on ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox).
> 4) DVR features, record time, and useability
> 5) Ability to "expand" dvr with external harddrive, also *the ability to export shows off the dvr to my computer for archiving* (via firewire or whatever - I currently due this on time warner's box with a firewire driver - if it can be done, i can figure it out).
> 6) Price (knowing that I'll likely be getting a full package with every HD channel, special movie channels, dvr's for two tv's (maybe 3), and the playboy channel (is this in HD yet?)
> 
> That's about it. I would really appreciate any opinions based on these needs! I have very little interest in watching sports, save occasionally watching my home team, LA Lakers.
> 
> Thanks in advance!


I snipped a bit to try to answer some of your questions.

1. Dish has more of the HD premiums and I think that they are on par with Direct for the others.

2. PQ is very subjective. I've had both and would say that they are different in small ways. Both enjoyable, and after a couple of days, you don't notice differences much.

4&5 - Dish lets you add an HD by your account and not by the DVR I think. I know that you can use more than one HD by swapping them once you've paid the 'enabling' fee. And it expands your storage.

Direct's approach is that the external drive replaces the internal one. There is no charge, but the DTV DVRs are much more picky about which HD and enclosure you get. That's because they are eSATA vice the USB2 that Dish uses

6. Price - after all the new subscriber discounts and such are over, the prices between the two are not far apart, and depends on which package you get.

Since you are not into sports much, Dish sounds like it would be a better solution for you.

All my opinion of course.


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## steveken

Cyphernaut said:


> My wife and I's interests in order are:
> 1) HD Movies and HD programming (i've been spoiled on hd and can't really stand sd anymore).


Well, both *claim* they have the most choices, but from my experiences with DirecTV (not D*, there is no such thing as DirectStar, while there is an EchoStar), you will get a lot more channels in HD than I have seen on my dad's Dish setup. It's been a while since I looked at the lineup I guess.



Cyphernaut said:


> 2) PQ


again, in comparison with my dad's Dish setup, DirecTV has them beat in picture quality as I can notice a BIG difference between DirecTV and Dish. I say that because Dish has a very bad habit of cramming as many HD channels as they can onto a satellite at the expense of bandwidth per channel. This causes the picture to look bad on Dish in my opinion. Every time I have looked at Dish's HD channels, I have not been happy at all with it.



Cyphernaut said:


> 3) Local networks in HD (not sure if this has to be local, just like seeing my fav shows on ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox).


In Little Rock, AR, locals in HD is something that is severely lacking on Dish Network. You will have to check to see how many Dish claims to carry in your area. I am sure you will be disappointed. DirecTV has pretty much all of them usually in an area. Sometimes they will be missing one or two, but they try to get them all up.



Cyphernaut said:


> 4) DVR features, record time, and useability


This is something that people debate CONSTANTLY. I kinda like Dish Networks DVR, but its really a personal choice. No one person is going to say one is better than the other because of any one reason. To each his own kinda thing. I don't know how big the hard drives are in the Dish receivers, but DirecTV's are coming with 500GB drives now I believe.



Cyphernaut said:


> 5) Ability to "expand" dvr with external harddrive, also *the ability to export shows off the dvr to my computer for archiving* (via firewire or whatever - I currently due this on time warner's box with a firewire driver - if it can be done, i can figure it out).


With Dish Network, you have to pay $5 for the privileged of expanding hard drive size with one of your own. With DirecTV, you simply plug in an eSATA drive and you are good to go. This, however, disables the internal drive, so anything you had on it, you won't get to until you unplug the eSATA drive. As far as I have ever been able to tell, you can NOT at all hook up the DVR to a computer. The only way you are going to get the content off there is hooking it up to a VCR, DVD-Recorder, or something else that has RCA connections on it that you can record from. That is the ONLY way you can get content off the units. Its how they lock them down.

DirecTV DOES, however, have an application for your computer that, as long as they are networked up together, will let you watch DVR recordings on your Windows computer instead of sitting in front of the TV itself. This also allows your wife to watch one thing while you watch another. I don't believe Dish has this kinda thing.

Coming soon (not sure how long), they will have Multi Room Viewing where, if you have multiple DVRs or multiple receivers with network jacks on them, you can watch DVR recordings on those other receivers while someone watches something else on the main DVR that you are watching from. Its kinda like the pc app, but without the computer. I think Dish *might* have something similar to this in as much as you can watch stuff off the DVR in another room, but I am not real sure that is only if you have a coax from the DVR run to another TV in another room. DirecTV's solution is MUCH better from everything I have read and heard.



Cyphernaut said:


> 6) Price (knowing that I'll likely be getting a full package with every HD channel, special movie channels, dvr's for two tv's (maybe 3), and the playboy channel (is this in HD yet?)


I don't think playboy is in HD, but it is like $15 a month on DirecTV and Dish. 
Price, well, you pay $5 for each additional receiver on DirecTV, but once for DVR (if you have more than 1 DVR, you only pay for the first one which is usually included in the rates). The full blown package for DirecTV is something like $110/month or so and includes all the movie channels. I think you still have to pay like $10 a month on top of that for the HD package.

I pay $105 a month roughly for the next to top tier of channels, sports pack ($12 or so a month, which I know you don't want), and $5 extra for the extra HD channels that aren't in the HD package. So, you can assume that premier will be more than $110 if you want to get HD or something like that. You can go calculate the price yourself at DirecTV's site. It's real easy. I assume Dish has something like that, too.

That covers it all I think.


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## clyde sauls

I think that dish is probably the better for what you want. I have had both and the reason I stay with dish is the receivers. After the initial freebes are over for signing up. Dish is still cheaper on some plans. I just signed up my sister in law whom lives in a rural area after Fridays dtv transiton even with the converter boxes . She couldnt receiver any channels . She seems to be quite happy now.


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## steveken

clyde sauls said:


> I think that dish is probably the better for what you want. I have had both and the reason I stay with dish is the receivers. After the initial freebes are over for signing up. Dish is still cheaper on some plans. I just signed up my sister in law whom lives in a rural area after Fridays dtv transiton even with the converter boxes . She couldnt receiver any channels . She seems to be quite happy now.


Forgot to say that Dish has a bad habit of telling their customers where they can stick it when they want to get a new or different receiver after you have been signed up for a while. My dad has been disappointed with them several times trying to get them to do things for an existing customer that they will do with a new customer. They just don't appear to give a crap about existing customers. DirecTV at least gives you a little working room if you are an existing customer.


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## archer75

steveken said:


> Forgot to say that Dish has a bad habit of telling their customers where they can stick it when they want to get a new or different receiver after you have been signed up for a while. My dad has been disappointed with them several times trying to get them to do things for an existing customer that they will do with a new customer. They just don't appear to give a crap about existing customers. DirecTV at least gives you a little working room if you are an existing customer.


depends on whether or not your contract is up. Both will work with you. Sometimes you need the right CSR on the phone. But you can bypass them and ask to speak with retention and get whatever you want.


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## archer75

steveken said:


> Well, both *claim* they have the most choices, but from my experiences with DirecTV (not D*, there is no such thing as DirectStar, while there is an EchoStar), you will get a lot more channels in HD than I have seen on my dad's Dish setup. It's been a while since I looked at the lineup I guess.


Dish was in the lead even before they added their last round of HD channels. Now they have a large lead.

updated June 1st:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1058081


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## jclewter79

As you can see there are differences, if you could tell us how many of each type of TV you have, we could tell you a little bit more about a monthly price. As you noted in your first post if you do decide to go with the highest package with E* that would be "America everything Pack" which includes all DVR fees for the whole account, so don't get sacred by what the D* guys say the "per DVR" fee would not apply to your account.


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## Retro

I've never had Dish, but i have had Directv since 1997 and have never had any major issues with it.. It's been very reliable through 3 hurricanes, lot's of rain (rare rain fade) and i've upgraded my receiver through the years as technology has changed with little bumps in the road.. 

The others can acknowledge the specific points you asked more so, but as far as reliability, NFLST and sports in general it's the clear cut best. If you don't care for sports as doesn't appear that is a major concern, then both services are probably pretty close elsewhere... 

Of course, there are some people who will cancel one over the other just for a minor issue instead of working through it.. Either way they blow cable away!


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## steveken

archer75 said:


> Dish was in the lead even before they added their last round of HD channels. Now they have a large lead.
> 
> updated June 1st:
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1058081


I believe that still is including in the count all the PPV channels they have. They have a lot more PPV HD channels that DirecTV. DirecTV, as far as I know, is only missing like 2 or 3 HD national channels that are out there. Dish has Travel HD I believe which a LOT of DirecTV customers want. So, except for the 2 or 3 HD nationals that DirecTV doesn't have yet, they *should* be pretty equal if the really do have all the HD nationals available.

You just simply can NOT count PPV HD's in the list of total HD's, in my opinion. That becomes VERY deceptive if you do. You should only count the HD channels that everyone gets by default with the packages and not that you have to pay a considerable amount extra for.


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## steveken

jclewter79 said:


> As you can see there are differences, if you could tell us how many of each type of TV you have, we could tell you a little bit more about a monthly price. As you noted in your first post if you do decide to go with the highest package with E* that would be "America everything Pack" which includes all DVR fees for the whole account, so don't get sacred by what the D* guys say the "per DVR" fee would not apply to your account.


If you pay for one DVR on your account, you paid for them all. They only charge for it one time. And that DVR fee is included in most, if not all, their packages.


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## archer75

steveken said:


> I believe that still is including in the count all the PPV channels they have. They have a lot more PPV HD channels that DirecTV. DirecTV, as far as I know, is only missing like 2 or 3 HD national channels that are out there. Dish has Travel HD I believe which a LOT of DirecTV customers want. So, except for the 2 or 3 HD nationals that DirecTV doesn't have yet, they *should* be pretty equal if the really do have all the HD nationals available.
> 
> You just simply can NOT count PPV HD's in the list of total HD's, in my opinion. That becomes VERY deceptive if you do. You should only count the HD channels that everyone gets by default with the packages and not that you have to pay a considerable amount extra for.


Look at the chart, there are no PPV channels listed.



steveken said:


> If you pay for one DVR on your account, you paid for them all. They only charge for it one time. And that DVR fee is included in most, if not all, their packages.


Dish has packages including the DVR fee. Not that it matters. It's in your package or you add it on. It's all the same.


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## jclewter79

steveken said:


> Forgot to say that Dish has a bad habit of telling their customers where they can stick it when they want to get a new or different receiver after you have been signed up for a while. My dad has been disappointed with them several times trying to get them to do things for an existing customer that they will do with a new customer. They just don't appear to give a crap about existing customers. DirecTV at least gives you a little working room if you are an existing customer.


While this really does not apply to this guy at this time because he would be new with either provider, I have found your statement to not be true. I was given a free upgrade to a 625 and then later replaced that with a 722 for free. Tell, you dad to tell the first person he talks to that he wishes to close his account he will be transfered to "retention", these are the people that will make a decesion as to what will be done. It is based on how much he spends per month and if the account has been behind very much. Good luck.


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## djpadz

I am currently a D* sub. I had E* for about eight years, and finally got fed up with them. Customer service is really where E* falls down, and D* excels. About the only channel that I miss, having switched from E* to D* is HBO Comedy.

Also:



Cyphernaut said:


> 3) Local networks in HD (not sure if this has to be local, just like seeing my fav shows on ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox).


Every year, E* gets into a contract dispute with one carrier or another, and the customers suffer the loss of certain stations during the dispute. The time can range from a few weeks, as was the case a couple of years ago with Turner (or was it Viacom?), to six months, which was the case this year with Fisher Communications. Seattle subs were without ABC on E* for half the year. E*'s response was a $1 credit for each month that they were without the channel.



Cyphernaut said:


> 4) DVR features, record time, and useability


I really like the iPhone app that D* has for DVR recording. Very convenient.



Cyphernaut said:


> 5) Ability to "expand" dvr with external harddrive, also *the ability to export shows off the dvr to my computer for archiving* (via firewire or whatever - I currently due this on time warner's box with a firewire driver - if it can be done, i can figure it out).


I know that E* offers (for a price) the ability to copy DVR content to an external drive. However, I don't think either of them offer a legal means for transferring this information to a computer. It does bear mentioning, however, that D* is rumored to be offering whole-home DVR, which will allow you to transfer recorded shows amongst your receivers. They also offer (free, I think) DirecTV2PC, which allows you to watch DVR shows on a PC. Unfortunately, no Mac version 



Cyphernaut said:


> 6) Price (knowing that I'll likely be getting a full package with every HD channel, special movie channels, dvr's for two tv's (maybe 3), and the playboy channel (is this in HD yet?)


Playboy is SD on D*. I don't think it's HD on E* (or, at least it wasn't a year ago). To the general notion of price, E* appears to have D* beat, but, IMO, D* offers better value. I'll pay more, if it means that I can keep all of my locals.



Cyphernaut said:


> As a side note, does either system come with sirius or xm subscription? (as in you can use it in your car, etc.) Or just for the TV?


Just the TV, unfortunately.

Anyway, as I mentioned before, I'm really happy with D*, if only because I know that when I call them with a problem, they'll fix it, and be pleasant on the phone. Such has not been my experience with E*. Of course, this is just my opinion, and I'm sure there's somebody out there who could say the same in reverse.

HTH,

--Dj


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## steveken

archer75 said:


> Look at the chart, there are no PPV channels listed.
> 
> Dish has packages including the DVR fee. Not that it matters. It's in your package or you add it on. It's all the same.


Yeah, I just went back and looked at the chart. Didn't see the link before.

From what I can see on that chart, there are a LOT of HD channels that I have a hard time believing most people would give a crap about. FashionTV? Seriously? 

Anyway, the only thing I will give them based upon the HD they do have is Travel Channel HD, WGN HD, and the few HD movie channels that DirecTV doesn't have yet for some reason. That would be the only selling point I can see in comparing the two. Whatever floats your boat though.


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## RAD

The OP mentioned that locals were important. He might want to check out some of the disputes that Dish has had with retransmission agreements, they've been known to pull stations off their service. Sometimes they're gone for only a hour, or a couple days but sometimes for months at a time (as in the recent Fisher dispute). They've also pulled regular 'cable' channels from their lineup due to pricing disagreements with the channel providers. DirecTV has also done this in the past but IMHO never to the extent that Dish does.

While Dish does have more HD channels now, they were trailing DirecTV for a number of months until they got a new satellite launched this year. DirecTV is also launching a new satellite this fall which is supposed to add capacity for 50 more national HD channels. Dish can also launch more and leapfrog DirecTV again, so it will depend on when the question is asked what service has the most HD.

As for the DVR's there a comparison chart available here, http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=95242&highlight=dish. I prefer to say the DVR's from each provider are different, each can do some things the other can't. It's up to you to see what each receiver can do and see what's more important to you.


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## archer75

djpadz said:


> I really like the iPhone app that D* has for DVR recording. Very convenient.


With dish you just go to the website. It's formatted for the iphone. Then schedule all the recordings you wish.


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## steveken

jclewter79 said:


> While this really does not apply to this guy at this time because he would be new with either provider, I have found your statement to not be true. I was given a free upgrade to a 625 and then later replaced that with a 722 for free. Tell, you dad to tell the first person he talks to that he wishes to close his account he will be transfered to "retention", these are the people that will make a decesion as to what will be done. It is based on how much he spends per month and if the account has been behind very much. Good luck.


He has done this SEVERAL times in the past to try to get someone to work with him. Each and every time he asks for retention, they basically tell him "Fine, go ahead and leave! Who cares!"

Oh, another bad thing for Dish is the fact that in some locations, you have to put 2 dishes on your house to get all the local HD channels. My dad recently had to put up a second dish in order to get the local TV stations in HD on his account.


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## archer75

steveken said:


> He has done this SEVERAL times in the past to try to get someone to work with him. Each and every time he asks for retention, they basically tell him "Fine, go ahead and leave! Who cares!"
> 
> Oh, another bad thing for Dish is the fact that in some locations, you have to put 2 dishes on your house to get all the local HD channels. My dad recently had to put up a second dish in order to get the local TV stations in HD on his account.


My experience is you talk to retention and you get whatever you want. With both direct and dish.

I don't know that i'd call 2 dishes on your house a bad thing. My reception is FAR better than it ever was with direct as a result of having 2 dishes to get all the satellites. Also this only applies to the west coast.


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## steveken

archer75 said:


> My experience is you talk to retention and you get whatever you want. With both direct and dish.
> 
> I don't know that i'd call 2 dishes on your house a bad thing. My reception is FAR better than it ever was with direct as a result of having 2 dishes to get all the satellites. Also this only applies to the west coast.


Little Rock, AR is in the middle of the country. Here we have to have 2 dishes to get all the locals as well as regular programming. 2 dishes on your house IS a bad thing if it detracts from the overall image of your house.

If you had bad results with reception on DirecTV, it is from poor alignment of the dish itself. I have to say that this is a common occurrence anymore because of the complex dish that is required currently to receive all the satellites on the one dish. They are supposedly working on bringing back a 3-LNB dish instead of the current 5 which should clear this problem right up.

I have found that in most cases if you have issues with alignment, a simple phone call within the first 60 or 90 days (I think, can't remember exactly) of installation and they will do it free. If you watch what is going on and insist that the installer work with the alignment to get the levels up into the 90's, you won't have any problems at all with reception in the future. I, personally, had to go out and manually realign my dish because the installer wasn't real bright, but since I did, I have had NO problems except for during the hardest rain when you couldn't possibly expect any signals at all to come through clouds that thick.


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## Maverickster

steveken said:


> Well, both *claim* they have the most choices, but from my experiences with DirecTV (not D*, there is no such thing as DirectStar, while there is an EchoStar). . . .


"D*" is a common, albeit disfavored, abbreviation for DirecTV; it's some sort of play on E* and the deathstar, iirc.

--Mav


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## j2fast

As far a pricing goes doesn't E* charge for each DVR where D* just charges a flat fee for DVR service regardless of the number of boxes?

I can say that I have little to no reception issues with D* save the odd thunder storm that would effect either. As far as how much HD each one has a better question would be which one has the channel YOU want in HD? I am more than happy with D* lineup in the HD arena.


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## archer75

steveken said:


> Little Rock, AR is in the middle of the country. Here we have to have 2 dishes to get all the locals as well as regular programming. 2 dishes on your house IS a bad thing if it detracts from the overall image of your house.
> 
> If you had bad results with reception on DirecTV, it is from poor alignment of the dish itself. I have to say that this is a common occurrence anymore because of the complex dish that is required currently to receive all the satellites on the one dish. They are supposedly working on bringing back a 3-LNB dish instead of the current 5 which should clear this problem right up.
> 
> I have found that in most cases if you have issues with alignment, a simple phone call within the first 60 or 90 days (I think, can't remember exactly) of installation and they will do it free. If you watch what is going on and insist that the installer work with the alignment to get the levels up into the 90's, you won't have any problems at all with reception in the future. I, personally, had to go out and manually realign my dish because the installer wasn't real bright, but since I did, I have had NO problems except for during the hardest rain when you couldn't possibly expect any signals at all to come through clouds that thick.


Two different houses. Two different installers. Same reception issue with direct. Dark clouds, heavy rain, snow. Pixalation. Lost channels. Not so with Dish.

Though I will say that both have better reception than cable.

I don't find that w dishes on my house detracts from anything. We live in a nice neighborhood too. In a nice house. Dishes are on the side of the house. No biggy.


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## jclewter79

steveken said:


> If you pay for one DVR on your account, you paid for them all. They only charge for it one time. And that DVR fee is included in most, if not all, their packages.


Which is what they do with the everything pack with E*, which would include everything he wants for a cheaper per month price than D*.


----------



## smitmor

My beef with Dish is their constant battles with the networks and affiliates. When I had Dish I lost all the Viacom (I think it was Viacom) networks for a time while they hashed out their contract. Then I lost my local NBC affiliate, and later they canned my local ABC affiliate for 6 months. While they were all eventually worked out, it was a HUGE inconvenience. They always say that they do this to keep their costs down, but for me -- out of contract -- the price difference of Dish vs. DirecTV is like $2 and I've never known DirecTV to do this. Perhaps they do but it just has not affected me.

Dish may have better receivers. Indeed, they do seem more stable. But I have been testing some of DirecTV's new features, such as remote scheduling, and DirecTV2PC and they are very very nice! I do have the occassional glitch, but that is to be expected in the beta process.

For me, not losing my channels every 6 to 12 months is worth the switch to DirecTV.


----------



## j2fast

archer75 said:


> With dish you just go to the website. It's formatted for the iphone. Then schedule all the recordings you wish.


Direct also has a mobile site for DVR scheduling that can be used by most if not all web enabled phones beyond just the specific iPhone app so it sounds like either provider meets the need/want of those that wish to do remote DVR scheduling.


----------



## harsh

joshjr said:


> If you want Sports programming D* is the ONLY way to go. D* is miles and miles above E*!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I didn't see any mention whatsoever of sports programming.


----------



## barryb

harsh said:


> I didn't see any mention whatsoever of sports programming.


Look again Harsh:



> I have very little interest in watching sports


----------



## idigg

harsh said:


> I didn't see any mention whatsoever of sports programming.


Well he still pointed out the truth.


----------



## idigg

archer75 said:


> With dish you just go to the website. It's formatted for the iphone. Then schedule all the recordings you wish.


DirecTV has iPhone app and m.directv.com


----------



## bonscott87

For a simple answer, for you I might go with Dish if HD movie channels are your top priority. I think most of your other questions are a wash really. This coming from a DirecTV sub since 1996.



Cyphernaut said:


> 1) HD Movies and HD programming (i've been spoiled on hd and can't really stand sd anymore).


Look at the channel lists and compare for yourself on the channels you care about. Right now Dish has more HD movie channels. Then again, Dish has *always* had more movie channels then DirecTV. DirecTV has way more sports. I don't expect this to change a whole lot. As for "regular" HD channels Dish has some that DirecTV doesn't have and DirecTV has some that Dish doesn't have.

I could care less about channel counts. Frankly who has the most changes all the time. It's all about *what channels you care about*. So compare and go with who has the channels you want. But don't be surprised if the other provider leapfrogs with more channels 6 months from now. Just the way it goes.



> 2) PQ


All depends on who you talk to. However it's pretty well accepted that Dish right now is cutting the resolution on their HD channels to cram as many as they can up there. DirecTV's are at full resolution. If you can tell the difference or not is something only you can answer.



> 3) Local networks in HD (not sure if this has to be local, just like seeing my fav shows on ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox).


I know it sounds like a broken record but check with each one and see what they offer. Both offer web pages where you can put in your zip code and see.



> 4) DVR features, record time, and useability


Both are comparable and offer similar thing a different way. Which you prefer will be up to you. Both are good.



> 5) Ability to "expand" dvr with external harddrive,


Both offer this in different ways, as explained by the other posts above.



> also *the ability to export shows off the dvr to my computer for archiving* (via firewire or whatever - I currently due this on time warner's box with a firewire driver - if it can be done, i can figure it out).


Not going to happen due to DRM via HDMI. Assuming the channel isn't protected you can record off the Component outputs, and of course SD is available via composite or Svideo.



> 6) Price (knowing that I'll likely be getting a full package with every HD channel, special movie channels, dvr's for two tv's (maybe 3), and the playboy channel (is this in HD yet?)


Go to both web sites, plug in what you need and they will tell you the cost. In general if you get the full boat package from both Dish will probably be a little cheaper but watch out for their monthly add-on fees which add up quickly. Again, just do a comparision and you'll get it.


----------



## archer75

idigg said:


> DirecTV has iPhone app and m.directv.com


Yes, they have an app. But no need when you can go direct to a site that looks like any app.

Same site with dish. Whether you use a mobile phone or your desktop computer. Just the format changes completely depending on what you are using.

And with the 922 receiver you'll be able to watch your DVR shows on your iphone anywhere you are.


----------



## Cyphernaut

jclewter79 said:


> If you want the most national HD channels, and the most HD premium movies channels. E* is the one for you. How many HDTV's do you have and how many SDTV's do you have? Will all of these need DVR service?


I have two hdtv's and 0 sdtv's (not really interested in watching sd anymore :hurah. Want dvr on both.

Someone else asked my area, I'm in west los angeles.


----------



## jclewter79

You should be able to catch the Lakers in HD in your area all of the time. The only time that an HD game is not shown when it is availble is usually an MLB game and that does not happen that often.


----------



## ajc68

I give Directv a slight edge right now, and expect the lead to grow significantly when the new satellite (D12) launches later this year to expand HD (nationals, premiums, etc). Directv has better customer service, slightly better picture (although, most can't tell a difference) and doesn't get into have public negotiating battles with local affiliates where a network can get pulled w/o notice for six months (i.e. Fisher/ABC). The remote recording feature on the DVR is fantastic and if you're a Tivo fan, they are currently developing a new HD-DVR for Directv that should be out early next year. So if you don't see much of a difference right now, you very well could see a significant one by early next year in Directv's favor.


----------



## harsh

Maverickster said:


> "D*" is a common, albeit disfavored, abbreviation for DirecTV;


Disfavored by some, but much better than the decidedly confusing "DTV" (DIRECTV's stock symbol for the time being) moniker that the gubmint chose to use for digital television.

Technically, DIRECTV is in all caps. Their direct competitor (although they concentrate on comparing themselves to cable) goes by DISH Network.


----------



## harsh

barryb said:


> Look again Harsh:


Oopsie. :blush:


----------



## jclewter79

You can get 2 612's for free and if you decide to pay $99 up front you can have E* without any contract.


----------



## harsh

idigg said:


> Well he still pointed out the truth.


That's kind of like pointing out that if you stand in the rain, you're going to get wet. It would seem that the OP crafted their query to avoid the issue of sports.


----------



## sigma1914

archer75 said:


> Yes, they have an app. But no need when you can go direct to a site that looks like any app.
> 
> Same site with dish. Whether you use a mobile phone or your desktop computer. Just the format changes completely depending on what you are using.
> 
> And with the 922 receiver you'll be able to watch your DVR shows on your iphone anywhere you are.


You can use any mobile phone browser with Directv, too... m.directv.com


----------



## archer75

sigma1914 said:


> You can use any mobile phone browser with Directv, too... m.directv.com


yeah, that was posted a couple of times already.


----------



## harsh

bonscott87 said:


> For a simple answer, for you I might go with Dish if HD movie channels are your top priority. I think most of your other questions are a wash really.


This sums it up pretty well in this case.

The only way to improve on this would be to do some serious hands-on testing with the respective DVRs and see how they work and judge the PQ and usability first-hand.


----------



## Cyphernaut

At the moment I'm leaning towards Dish for my situation, but I'll need to really sit down and price out plans and the details tonight when I get home for work. And if I do go with Dish, it's probably worth waiting for the 922 dvr if it's coming out in the next month or two. Anyone know?


----------



## Cyphernaut

oh and thanks for all of the help and input!


----------



## Cyphernaut

jclewter79 said:


> You can get 2 612's for free and if you decide to pay $99 up front you can have E* without any contract.


Is this a standard online deal or something special?


----------



## barryb

Its akin to trying to get a drink of a fire hydrant Cyphernaut.

First off: :welcome_s to DBSTalk!

Do you know of anyone in your area that you could see Dish Network in action?

I -believe- you could go to a Best Buy (or Costco) and try out DirecTV.

I have been a DirecTV sub since 1997 by personal choice. If you can try both hands-on it might really help with your decision.


----------



## jclewter79

The main reason I do not predict that D* will take the lead in HD premiums is because they don't even have the lead in SD premiums. E* has led premiums as a whole for quite a long time.


----------



## Cyphernaut

barryb said:


> Its akin to trying to get a drink of a fire hydrant Cyphernaut.
> 
> First off: :welcome_s to DBSTalk!
> 
> Do you know of anyone in your area that you could see E* in action?
> 
> I -believe- you could go to a Best Buy (or Costco) and try out D*.
> 
> I have been a D* sub since 1997 by personal choice. If you can try both hands-on it might really help with your decision.


thx for the warm welcome! i've been lurking here for a bit, but wanted to get in the action today


----------



## harsh

ajc68 said:


> I give Directv a slight edge right now, and expect the lead to grow significantly when the new satellite (D12) launches later this year to expand HD (nationals, premiums, etc).


It is dangerous to look too far ahead when it comes to getting what you want. It may come, or it may not. It is probably best to go with the service that has what you want now rather than assuming you'll eventually get what you want some time down the road.


> Directv has better customer service,


They both suffer and each has their victories and failures.


> and doesn't get into have public negotiating battles with local affiliates where a network can get pulled w/o notice for six months (i.e. Fisher/ABC).


While the battles may not be public, the've DIRECTV obviously has had some difficulties coming to agreements with stations and channels as well.


> The remote recording feature on the DVR is fantastic


The DISH Remote Access feature is considerably more advanced.


> and if you're a Tivo fan, they are currently developing a new HD-DVR for Directv that should be out early next year.


For those who are familiar with TiVo this is the one point we agree on (assuming it comes to pass).


> So if you don't see much of a difference right now, you very well could see a significant one by early next year in Directv's favor.


Why wait?


----------



## barryb

Cyphernaut said:


> thx for the warm welcome! i've been lurking here for a bit, but wanted to get in the action today


I feel you are going about it the right way... especially where you make it clear you don't want to start a flame war.


----------



## jclewter79

Cyphernaut said:


> Is this a standard online deal or something special?


This is a standard deal, all new customers with E* can waive the 24 month commitment by paying $99 up front. You might be able to get three 612's for free but, I do not think they would lease you 3 of them unless you had three HDTV's to hookup at the install. If you think that you will be needing the third TV soon it might pay to go ahead and get it now because any upgrades with E* will result in a 24 month contract. The only way for an exsisting E* customer to add or upgrade receivers without a contract is to buy them outright which is more expensive. If you can find a local retailer, that is sometimes the best way to go because you have brick and mortar business to take your problems to if you have any.


----------



## harsh

Cyphernaut said:


> thx for the warm welcome! i've been lurking here for a bit, but wanted to get in the action today


Understand that either way, you'll be entering into a 24 month commitment so it pays to be diligent in your evaluation.

DIRECTV charges $20/month of unfulfilled commitment and DISH Network charges $12.50/month.


----------



## oldfantom

OK, this reply will win me some friends. Check the channel lineups on both, that is the only thing in your list that matters. This covers items (1) and (3)

PQ, not an issue, the fact that there is a debate should tell you that both have acceptable PQ and unless you compare both, on you TV in your living room, with your tv tweaked like you like it, you will never get a good answer on PQ. 

Hardware, not an issue. Both get you there. I loved my Tivo, I can live with my HR-xxx boxes. As with most hardware, it only matters in as much as it supports the software (or programming) you want. Who really cares if the UI is pretty if all you want to watch is a channel you can't get.

As to price, if you are paying for the full boat, are you really going to worry about saving $5 on $130 dollar bill? 

Like others, I would also say that the answer at this second is probably DISH. The answer in six months may be DIRECTV. Of course in another 3 months after that it might well be DISH again. 

My advice, find the programing that best suits you right now. Pull the trigger then be happy. In the end, TV is hard to mess up.


----------



## RAD

archer75 said:


> And with the 922 receiver you'll be able to watch your DVR shows on your iphone anywhere you are.


Since Dish is the nickel and dime with fees company I wonder if they will end up asking for a one time or monthly feed to use the Sling capability? Since Echostar bought Sling does it make financial sense for them to 'give away' a feature that normally would cost you $180 (or $299 for the HD) for the standalone product?


----------



## jclewter79

harsh said:


> Understand that either way, you'll be entering into a 24 month commitment so it pays to be diligent in your evaluation.
> 
> DIRECTV charges $20/month of unfulfilled commitment and DISH Network charges $12.50/month.


Not if you pay $99 upfront with E*


----------



## harmil2

I went from E to D about 3 months ago. I lost trust in E after 3 months of no ABC while E was in a dispute with Fisher Broadcasting. They just got ABC back last week so it took nearly 6 months. Since D hasn't left customers in the lurch, I lurched to them. All that said here are my opinions after 8 years of Dish and 3 months of Directv:

1. There really are short term differences but overall it is a wash. Both are good but not perfect. As I am an HDTV addict I found more shows that I actually watch were in HDTV on D than E.

2. D has the best hdtv picture, at least on my HR23 700 dvr compared to Dish 622dvr. This is on a 108" screen from an Epson 1080ub that really shows any artifacts or problems. This difference is small but noticeable.

3.E hardware equipment seems a bit more sophisticated and reliable in spite of D's picture advantage. I especially miss E's well thought out external usb hdd system which beats esata D by a mile.

4. D has better customer service if you can get through the robo phone to a real person. Then they are great compared to E.

5. A new sat (d12) going up for D this fall and then they will likely jump ahead of E until they put up another Sat. This leapfrog game will go on until everything is hdtv in a few years. Overall no difference, but at any given time one or the other will be ahead for a few months. Don't let short term differences bother you. I bet both will end up almost identical. 

6. In the pacific NW where I live D only requires one sat on the roof for full hdtv, E requires at least 2, at least this was true last March when I left.

7. Overall each has some strength and weaknesses. Don't lose any sleep over this issue. Longterm I experience little difference. I will consider changing again when my contract runs out just to score new receivers unless D retention services are cooperative or I see consistant reports of one actually pulling out in front...which would surprise me.

The above are my opinions and not meant to feed into any arguements. Good luck.


----------



## coldsteel

jclewter79 said:


> This is a standard deal, all new customers with E* can waive the 24 month commitment by paying $99 up front. You might be able to get three 612's for free but, I do not think they would lease you 3 of them unless you had three HDTV's to hookup at the install. If you think that you will be needing the third TV soon it might pay to go ahead and get it now because any upgrades with E* will result in a 24 month contract. The only way for an exsisting E* customer to add or upgrade receivers without a contract is to buy them outright which is more expensive. If you can find a local retailer, that is sometimes the best way to go because you have brick and mortar business to take your problems to if you have any.


Nope. Only the first HDDVR is free. Additional 612s are $100 each.


----------



## jclewter79

coldsteel said:


> Nope. Only the first HDDVR is free. Additional 612s are $100 each.


Yes, you are correct I checked if you want 2 612's it would cost $100 up front. You could go with a 612 and a 211 all for free after you get the 211 hooked up you could a hard drive and call E* and have DVR service added to it for a one time $40 fee. After that you would never pay for DVR service on the 211 ever again althought you would only have one tuner on the 211. So if you wanted dual tuner DVR's on both HDTV's it would cost you $100 up front with a 2 year contract or $199 without any contract at all. This is what the website said.


----------



## clyde sauls

also dont forget with dish you have 2 tvs connected to 1 receiver and control and watch different programming with the 1 receiver with D you cant do that. It will require 2 receivers plus add $5 for lease the 2nd receiver.


----------



## RAD

clyde sauls said:


> also dont forget with dish you have 2 tvs connected to 1 receiver and control and watch different programming with the 1 receiver with D you cant do that. It will require 2 receivers plus add $5 for lease the 2nd receiver.


That is a good option when TV2 is a SD set, not if TV2 is a HD set since the TV2 output is only SD, not HD.


----------



## jclewter79

RAD said:


> That is a good option when TV2 is a SD set, not if TV2 is a HD set since the TV2 output is only SD, not HD.


This is why I have not even mentioned the 722. He has HDTV's only so there is no need to even bring them up.


----------



## WestDC

D* is way better than E* because I have D*--That is all the information you need after all your not gonna have either product installed.


----------



## Aztec Pilot

I will offer my opinions. I am a Directv customer. As you can tell everyone here has a bias to there provider. But hopefully this gets back to topic.:lol:



Cyphernaut said:


> Ok, not trying to start a flamewar here, this is not a direct vs dish question, for which there probably isn't a single uniform answer, but a direct vs dish for my specific needs, for which maybe there is.
> 
> I signed up for direct while at best buy the other day, but have postponed the install date since, to give me more time to really determine if that's the best for me. I'm having a really tough time sorting through the opinions and details of each, since there are nuances that are hard to compare, like the packages don't correlate exactly, etc.
> 
> My wife and I's interests in order are:
> 1) HD Movies and HD programming (i've been spoiled on hd and can't really stand sd anymore).
> 
> I find that every chanel I watch is now HD (Comedy Central was the last holdout) on DirecTV. Don't care who has more HD, because if I am not watching it, it does not matter. I subscribe to Directv's premium package with all the premium channels, so all of the primary movie channels are HD.
> 
> 2) PQ
> 
> I have seen both ( my friend has Dish) HD is good on both. Most posts on DBSTalk have a bias towards Directv having better HD PQ. SD quality is, well, Who Cares.
> 
> 3) Local networks in HD (not sure if this has to be local, just like seeing my fav shows on ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox).
> 
> Do a zip check on each website, this varies by geography.
> 
> 4) DVR features, record time, and useability
> 
> Directv's DVR has come a long way, and keeps getting better. Dish's has been better, but I think things are getting more equal. Dish has a new one with Sling built in. Directv's CEO anounced that MRV is coming at a conference recently.
> 
> 5) Ability to "expand" dvr with external harddrive, also *the ability to export shows off the dvr to my computer for archiving* (via firewire or whatever - I currently due this on time warner's box with a firewire driver - if it can be done, i can figure it out).
> 
> Both are expandable with external drives. Dish allows the external to be an extension. Directv makes the external the primary, not using the original. No HD comes off either DVR.
> 
> 6) Price (knowing that I'll likely be getting a full package with every HD channel, special movie channels, dvr's for two tv's (maybe 3), and the playboy channel (is this in HD yet?)
> 
> Check their sites for package pricing. They are diferent depending on your taste.
> 
> That's about it. I would really appreciate any opinions based on these needs! I have very little interest in watching sports, save occasionally watching my home team, LA Lakers.
> 
> As a side note, does either system come with sirius or xm subscription? (as in you can use it in your car, etc.) Or just for the TV?
> 
> No not yet.
> 
> Thanks in advance!


Hope that helps


----------



## rkr0923

I've had D* for many years, around 10 I would say, and hated it for the last 9. Many reasons that all these D* _ _ _ kissers would still _ _ _ kiss about so I won't get into it. 
IMHO Dish is what you are looking for.


----------



## djrobx

I'm with DIRECTV. I'm generally very happy with it.

E* is probably a better choice for you if you're into premiums. I'm not sure what happened with DirecTV and HBO+Cinemax, but DirecTV does not have the full HD lineup. Also, the HD quality of those particular channels is not very good. It's HD, but it almost looks as if they have a low quality MPEG-2 source at times, and it is noticeably inferior to Showtime, TMC, and Starz. Really all other HD channels on DirecTV have outstanding PQ. 

The DirecTV HR2x DVRs are nice enough, but they're a little clunky and slow. They have lots of capacity and most of the important features. The Dish DVRs seem nicer.

My problem with E* is horrible customer service. I had them for a very short period of time a few years ago. Once I got my equipment, I found I needed to exchange one of the receivers they sent, but they woudn't do it unless I sent the entire dish+lnb back with it (they came boxed together). The person in customer service I spoke with had to the most unpleasant person I've ever had the misfortune of dealing with. He absolutely did not care. I ended up cancelling and E* made absolutely no effort to keep me. DirecTV's customer service has always been outstanding for me.

DirecTV is definitely a sports-centric provider, but that doesn't seem to take much away from the rest of their offering. 

Either way I don't think you'll go wrong.


----------



## Juppers

For what you stated in your original post, Dish would be the better service for you. Dish has more HD premiums, MUCH better equipment, and is generally lower cost. Downside to dish is they occasionally get into spats with channels and those channels go dark until they work out their differences, typically during contract negotiations. 

DirecTV's HD DVR is horribly slow and very buggy. The only reason I would recommend DirecTV to anyone is if they don't want a HD DVR or they are a BIG sports fan and need a ton of RSNs showing basically the same thing and season ticket type packages.


----------



## jclewter79

djrobx said:


> I'm with DIRECTV. I'm generally very happy with it.
> 
> E* is probably a better choice for you if you're into premiums. I'm not sure what happened with DirecTV and HBO+Cinemax, but DirecTV does not have the full HD lineup. Also, the HD quality of those particular channels is not very good. It's HD, but it almost looks as if they have a low quality MPEG-2 source at times, and it is noticeably inferior to Showtime, TMC, and Starz. Really all other HD channels on DirecTV have outstanding PQ.
> 
> The DirecTV HR2x DVRs are nice enough, but they're a little clunky and slow. They have lots of capacity and most of the important features. The Dish DVRs seem nicer.
> 
> My problem with E* is horrible customer service. I had them for a very short period of time a few years ago. Once I got my equipment, I found I needed to exchange one of the receivers they sent, but they woudn't do it unless I sent the entire dish+lnb back with it (they came boxed together). The person in customer service I spoke with had to the most unpleasant person I've ever had the misfortune of dealing with. He absolutely did not care. I ended up cancelling and E* made absolutely no effort to keep me. DirecTV's customer service has always been outstanding for me.
> 
> DirecTV is definitely a sports-centric provider, but that doesn't seem to take much away from the rest of their offering.
> 
> Either way I don't think you'll go wrong.


Directv does not even have the whole SD HBO/Cinamax lineup


----------



## Jhon69

Well I now have DirecTV,before I had Dish guess where I am going to send you? DirecTV? Nope Dish! Why? because when you experience things first hand it leaves a more lasting impression.Good Luck!


----------



## hahler2

I am currently a directv customer and will probably be switching to dish. I love directv and the picture quality is outstanding. However, I think the upcoming 922 HD DVR will be ten times better than anything Directv has right now. I'm going to wait until both the 922 and the new HD Tivo are out and then I will make a decision from there.


----------



## Newshawk

I know I'm late to the party, but I noticed that no one addressed the question of local channels.



Cyphernaut said:


> 3) Local networks in HD (not sure if this has to be local, just like seeing my fav shows on ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox).


I see you're in Los Angeles. When it comes to local HD channels, both Dish and DirecTV will give you the Big 4 (KABC, KNBC, KCBS and KTTV/FOX). Dish also has KTLA/CW and KCAL/Ind. DirecTV has KTLA/CW, KCOP/MNT, and two PBS stations, KCET and KOCE. DirecTV also has a third PBS station (KLCS, Ch 58) that provides its -2 subchannel (the agreement between DirecTV and the Asssociation of Public Television Stations is that each station can opt for either HD carriage or carriage of one of its subchannels.) So it ends up that DirecTV has 9 HD locals and one subchannel in LA to Dish's 6.


----------



## jimmymiko

Dish is like the AOL of satellite. Enough said.


----------



## Milkman

I am a DirecTV subscriber, but I will try to keep my responses objective.



Cyphernaut said:


> 1) HD Movies and HD programming (i've been spoiled on hd and can't really stand sd anymore).


I think Dish has more HD Programming, but I thought D* had more HD PPV channels. Could be wrong on this though.



Cyphernaut said:


> 2) PQ


I have not viewed Dish programming on a comparable TV to say either way.



Cyphernaut said:


> 3) Local networks in HD (not sure if this has to be local, just like seeing my fav shows on ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox).


Check the website (both Dish and DirecTV) for your local geography, as your results may vary. In the Tampa area I get all of those channels plus additional locals (Like CW for example).



Cyphernaut said:


> 4) DVR features, record time, and useability


I don't know much about the Dish DVR. I can tell you that the Dish DVR has a much nicer GUI then that compared to DirecTV.

DirecTV updates their software a few times a year. These updates have introduced a great deal of stability to the box as well as new features. Some of the newest features are the ability to broadcast 1080p as well as Quicktune (a neat little feature to quickly tune to your favorite channels).



Cyphernaut said:


> 5) Ability to "expand" dvr with external harddrive, also *the ability to export shows off the dvr to my computer for archiving* (via firewire or whatever - I currently due this on time warner's box with a firewire driver - if it can be done, i can figure it out).


Dish and DirecTV both allow for expansion with external hard drives. Dish uses USB and DirecTV uses eSATA. DirecTV does not currently offer exporting to the computer, and I am not sure about Dish. Due to copyright issues, I am not sure if either will ever support this.



Cyphernaut said:


> 6) Price (knowing that I'll likely be getting a full package with every HD channel, special movie channels, dvr's for two tv's (maybe 3), and the playboy channel (is this in HD yet?)


Since you are a new subscriber, both companies will give you a GREAT deal. I don't know if you can get a subscription to the Playboy channel (as I think it is PPV), but when you are pricing the packages you can ask them. I suggest you call both companies, and let them both know that you are pricing against their competition. Be very careful on what they tell you to try to get you to subscribe to them (as opposed to the competition). If you have any doubts of their claims, post in the appropriate forum here, and there will be more than enough people to help you.


----------



## inkahauts

Cyphernaut said:


> Ok, not trying to start a flamewar here, this is not a direct vs dish question, for which there probably isn't a single uniform answer, but a direct vs dish for my specific needs, for which maybe there is.
> 
> I signed up for direct while at best buy the other day, but have postponed the install date since, to give me more time to really determine if that's the best for me. I'm having a really tough time sorting through the opinions and details of each, since there are nuances that are hard to compare, like the packages don't correlate exactly, etc.
> 
> My wife and I's interests in order are:
> 1) HD Movies and HD programming (i've been spoiled on hd and can't really stand sd anymore).
> 2) PQ
> 3) Local networks in HD (not sure if this has to be local, just like seeing my fav shows on ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox).
> 4) DVR features, record time, and useability
> 5) Ability to "expand" dvr with external harddrive, also *the ability to export shows off the dvr to my computer for archiving* (via firewire or whatever - I currently due this on time warner's box with a firewire driver - if it can be done, i can figure it out).
> 6) Price (knowing that I'll likely be getting a full package with every HD channel, special movie channels, dvr's for two tv's (maybe 3), and the playboy channel (is this in HD yet?)
> 
> That's about it. I would really appreciate any opinions based on these needs! I have very little interest in watching sports, save occasionally watching my home team, LA Lakers.
> 
> As a side note, does either system come with sirius or xm subscription? (as in you can use it in your car, etc.) Or just for the TV?
> 
> Thanks in advance!


I am not going to rad any other posts, just going to reply to your first one..

1 & 2. Directv and Dish both have tons of HD. If your like me, there is a PQ difference today, with Directv winning. Dish is compressing more. In theory Dish has more channels. The problem with both those statements, is that Dish will get another sat up at some point, and therefore their PQ may increase to the level of Directv's at that point. Can't really say for sure. However, they tend to be cheaper, and will probably go for more channels than quality (see the tivo fight Dish is in). As for actual channel count.. Its to close to call either way. Both are comparable, both have a few stations the other doesn't, it just depends on what channels you actually watch. Directv has all the channels in HD I want, so they are great. Also Directv's next sat, to launch latter this year, will expand their capacity, which means likely more HD channels, where Dish will have to choose, more channels or better PQ, or a combination of the two.. No one knows what either provider will actually do in the future. Only where we are at now. (and lets face it, till the sats in the air, they don;t help. Dish lost a sat last year in flight, hence the position they are in now)

3. Directv has all the main LA locals in HD, (2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13) including 2 PBS stations, kcet, and koce.

4. I love Directv' DVR's. They are easy to use, and have some cool features announced that ARE coming. This was announced by the CEO a few months ago. Record time, if you want more with directv, all you have to do is add an external esata drive, up to 2tb.. which is what, over 400 hours.. I believe you can add a usb drive to dish, but its a one time fee, and its more archival based than just having a bigger hard drive, from what I have read...

5. No provider will allow you to archive recodings to a computer, ever. Directv will alow you to watch DVR'ed programs on your pc now, from any dvr in the home netowrk. Dish will have a sling player built into their boxes at some point, no one knows when.

6. Frankly, if you want everything, I would not make price an issue.. Get what you want, you already know its not going to be cheap....


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## jerrylove56

Have had both services. 
1. Dish has the worst customer service ever invented.
2. Dish's receivers are killer buttttt when they go bad they go real bad.
3. Directs sports programming is amazing.
4. I never figured out what drug Dish programmers were using. (their channel lineup was so complicated.
5. I like HD over SD and Dish's premium channel line-up is much better than Direct's
If I had to recommend a friend on a service, Direct is by far the best sat. provider.


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## dreadlk

Directv has a more streamlined better organised uplink of channels and a better organised Satellite fleet. The Pic quality on DirectvHD IMO is better than DishHD.

That said the Directv receivers, expecially the DVR is not a very reliable piece of equipment, it suffers from random reboots, that then take a good 8 minutes to reload the guide data so that you can watch TV again. Also the Beta testing program for the HR2X series receivers seems to be endless, three plus years and counting and we still have almost monthly updates to fix bugs and add new features but every new feature seems to add in it's own set of bugs.


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## harsh

Aztec Pilot said:


> I subscribe to Directv's premium package with all the premium channels, so all of the primary movie channels are HD.


Let's examine this as it seems to go to the heart of the question. Of those carried by either carrier here's the comparison:



Code:


          DIRECTV           DISH
HBOE         Y               Y
HBOW         Y               Y
HBO2E        N               Y
HBOSG        N               Y
HBOFM        N               Y
HBOC         N               Y
HBOZ         N               Y
MAX          Y               Y
MAXW         Y               Y
AMAX         N               Y
5MAX         N               Y
SHOE         Y               Y
SHOW         Y               N
SHO2E        Y               Y
SHOCS        Y               Y
SHOEX        Y               N
TMCE         Y               Y
ENCE         N               Y
STRZE        Y               Y
STRZW        Y               Y
STREG        Y               Y
STRKF        Y               Y

  22         14              20

Please note that in comparing the top packages of each, DIRECTV includes the SPORTS PACK with _many_ channels in HD ($12.99 ala carte). DISH offers Playboy (in SD) with the AEP package for $7/month ($15.99 ala carte).


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## stuartrawling

A while ago when I was choosing a new TV service, I did quite a bit of research by contacting the customer service departments of Dish and DirecTv.

I think it is too long to post, so here is the link to my write up:
<http://www.geekybrit.com/2008/08/tech/dish-vs-directv-vs-comcast.html>

All in all I chose DirectTv, basically because of the customer service I received during my research was second to none. This still impresses me after I had a couple of teething issues and they sorted me out well. The only downside I would say is that the DVR's I have are not as solid as I would have liked, but are getting better.

Hope this helps.


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## gphvid

I've been with DirecTV since 1994 and the old generation 1 receiverwith a dish that had an RCA logo on it. I've thought about moving to Dish a number of times over the years. I work in the TV industry and through the grapevine, keep hearing of Dish's instability in one way or an other and DirecTV's stability. With that in mind, I stayed and have even updated to HD with 2 HDDVRs.

And, as I see HD video every day in both 4.2.2 and 4.4.4, in 59.94 and 23.98, I like the pq on DirecTV. Even the 5.1 stereo on the HD channels is cool.

Granted, I have no experience with Dish, but these are the reasons I'm sticking with DirecTV. And I am looking forward to the new sat this fall!


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## smiddy

I have never had DiSH and I never researched their services. I do have DirecTV and I couldn't be happier (I came from Adelphia and was courting Charter when I went with DirecTV)! I get all the HD I need, the PQ is spectacular, their customer service is great, the STB is ok (they continually work on them, bringing updates all the time), the price seems right for the value of the service, and I can't beat the sports programming where I can get everything I'm looking for.


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## mkstretch

5) Ability to "expand" dvr with external harddrive, also *the ability to export shows off the dvr to my computer for archiving* (via firewire or whatever - I currently due this on time warner's box with a firewire driver - if it can be done, i can figure it out).

Check this out about exporting shows to an Archos PMP

http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/18/archos-605-and-705-now-support-dish-dvr-transfers/


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## BudShark

It really depends on what drives you. As far as channels/service of the main features they are the same.

Price: Dish
Movies: Edge to Dish
Sports: Landslide to DirecTV
DVR: I personally give the edge to DirecTV for a couple reasons. More active development AND pending competition from Tivo leads to more innovation and stability. Dish has 2 features DirecTV doesn't though: Harddrive movement/archiving and PiP.

Personal: I had Dish for many years. I found them to be a very frustrating company. The constant bickering with carriers, the loss of channels, and inconsistent/incomplete receivers with many broken roadmaps. The receivers are more stable now, but 5-6 years ago they were god awful IMO.

Personal #2: DirecTV is run more like a fortune 500 company. Dish is run like some frat guys hobby IMO. I say that about Dish because of the lawsuits, bickering with carriers, etc all out in the public. It turns me off to an extent and I'm willing to pay more to avoid that. Its all about what tolerance of risk/reward you are looking for.


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## Gene Steinberg

My experience is primarily with Dish. I agree that they were flaky a few years ago. I even returned to our local cable provider, Cox, but when they broke all their promises about providing HD content in sufficient quantities, I reconsidered satellite.

I actually ordered a full DirecTV package. But their installers were jerks, and arrived not even prepared to do the installation properly, lacking equipment to work in an apartment/condo situation, even though they were given the proper information on our location situation in advance.

Even though we had a clear southward view, their two-second test showed that they couldn't receive a satisfactory signal or any signal, so I dismissed them. I called DirecTV suppoty, and they promised a local tech would call within 20 minutes and arrange an appointment to get a second opinion on our ability to receive their signal.

The call never came, so I cancelled the service order.

I phoned Dish. They were far more professional in checking to determine what they needed to make a proper installation, and claimed to already have customers in our housing development. In the two days before the scheduled installation, I got emails indicating how best to prepare, including a link to a permissions document for housing associations and/or rental offices to sign to give them approval for the installation. DirecTV never told me I needed such a thing (one of the installers only mentioned it after arrival).

In any case, Dish sent one of their own employees to perform the setup. He confirmed a strong signal, and configured everything neatly and professionally to our requirements.

Reception is exactly what we expected on our Panasonic 1080P 50-inch TV. Picture quality is clearly superior to Cox, and we've had no glitches whatever. It may well be that DirecTV, had we gotten it, would have had superior PQ, but I dare say most of that difference wouldn't be visible at a normal viewing distance. It's not as if regular people sit in right in front of the set looking for pixelation and other artifacts of excessive compression. 

Peace,
Gene


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## xmguy

DirecTV is the way to go. I NEVER thought about Dish/Echostar.

Since I only have SD I can't comment on DirecTV's or Dish's HD lineup.
But as far as an SD customer goes. I feel I get MORE channels for my money with DirecTV than Dish. Plus I wanted XM not Sirius audio channels (I know their one company now. When I signed up they weren't) With Dish they seem to charge more to get the same channels I can get on DirecTV for a lower price.


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## harsh

xmguy said:


> DirecTV is the way to go. I NEVER thought about Dish/Echostar.


Going into something without considering all the options is generally not a good idea. In the long run, the SD quality that DISH delivers is arguably better and you ended up with an arguably inferior music channel situation.


> Plus I wanted XM not Sirius audio channels


I think you would be impressed how much better the audio quality is for what turned out to be the same channels on DISH.


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## TBoneit

uscboy said:


> You're not going to get "export" functionality with either Dish or Direct.
> 
> Your best bet is a Hauppauge HD PVR:
> 
> http://www.hauppauge.com/site/products/data_hdpvr.html
> 
> Ripping via the Component outputs. I don't believe you'll find direct Firewire
> like the cable boxes have.
> 
> Sorry I can't help with the rest really, not that much experience with Dish,
> only a few folks I know have it. I think the HD content and PQ on Direct is
> great though! And as already pointed out, an eSATA drive can be used
> instead of the internal drives in the DirecTV DVRs.
> 
> Playboy is $12.99/month, not sure on HD, but I don't think so.


Well I'm happy with the Hauppauge HD PVR.

feed it 480p it records 480p. feed it 720p & it records 720P or feed it 1080i and it records 1080i. I did a Sundance channel movie SD out at 1080i (forgot to change to 480P and it looks really good. I did a HDNet Movie at 1080i and encoded it as DVD spec and it looks good. The recording play fine with the Western Digital Media player BTW.

With the Dishnetwork HD DVR I'm feeding SD via S-Video to a DVD recorder, Component to the HD PVR and HDMI to the TV concurrently.

I use several USB drives with the DVR for different uses. The smallest one is used to store SD video, the others store HD video broken up into TV Shows/Specials, Movies and Other. Switching them as needed all the while continuing to watch from the internal drive, not possible with the HR series DVRs from DirecTV right now.

Customer service is much better for me than when I had DirecTV previously. When I have had problems such as a bad switch or LNB on the roof it took one or two days for the service to Arrive. Phone Interaction has always been good with Dishnetwork.

Since I'm not a huge sports fan ans would never pay that kind of money for a season ticket......

I got the hump towards the Yankees when they started YES and haven't watched them since, Greedy Bleepers.

Both would probably be suitable. Reading reports here, The E* VIP series is better. The D* HRxx series work however are slower and do seem to miss the occasional recording.

If I were subscribing now I'd wait to get the DVR with Sling in it. OTOH I can already log in from work and schedule recordings and such right away.


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## tim99

Content is king, the only regret you're going to have here is not getting the channels you want. Even if one provider had a little better service, PVR and PQ you're still going to regret choosing them if the other provider has the content you'd rather watch.



Cyphernaut said:


> That's about it. I would really appreciate any opinions based on these needs! I have very little interest in watching sports, save occasionally watching my home team, LA Lakers.


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## dreadlk

Do you actually own a Directv DVR

I like how you use the word "Innovation" , sounds just like what Microsoft always says! And we are pretty much in the same boat like Vista users:lol:



BudShark said:


> It really depends on what drives you.
> 
> --snip--
> DVR: I personally give the edge to DirecTV for a couple reasons. More active development AND pending competition from Tivo leads to more innovation and stability. Dish has 2 features DirecTV doesn't though: Harddrive movement/archiving and PiP.
> 
> --snip--
> .


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## mystic7

I wanna know how a guy with only 6 posts rates his own front page headline link!


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## Gene Steinberg

I did want to toss in a few more observations.

Although I realize that DirecTV is supposed to have better support than Dish, my own experience in trying to order the service shows the opposite. In addition, my sister-in-law has DirecTV, bundled by Qwest, and they run into interminable problems getting tech help when it's needed. A colleague said their support was, to him, flaky, although he liked the picture quality and channel selection.

A strange disparity indeed.

Peace,
Gene


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## AtlHDTV

tim99 said:


> Content is king, the only regret you're going to have here is not getting the channels you want. Even if one provider had a little better service, PVR and PQ you're still going to regret choosing them if the other provider has the content you'd rather watch.


Not too long ago, DirecTV had more HD channels when compared with Dish Network. To Dish Network's credit, they have met and exceeded their competition.

DirecTV is launching a new satellite in September. Then who will have more HD channels?

For me, content and customer service both matter.

I have Direct. The primary issue I have with them is they do not allow you to purchase hardware without a two year commitment - even a remote control. I'd be willing to pay more money to avoid the commitment (within reason). If you run a google search on "DirecTV Early Termination", you'll find they are not likely to relieve you of your commitment - even in circumstances where someone has moved to a location where reception isn't possible or when they were dissatisfied with the service after an initial install.

Other than the two year trap, I've had Direct for 12 years with no concerns or desire to change.

I know people who feel similarly about Dish.


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## tim99

Probably D* but by 'content is king' I don't mean the 'most' HD but rather the content that YOU (or in this case the OP) want. For example sports is by far the most important thing to me, esp football season. Dish could have 2x the HD channels but if they don't have NFL Ticket or the regional sport nets like D* then Dish just doesn't have the content that is important to me and it wouldn't matter what their service or DVR was like. By the same token if I didn't care about sports but did care most about premium movies what good would D*'s marginally better service do me if Dish has more premium HD movie channels?

I do agree that the other factors are important, but I think they're mostly a wash. Where I live we have 3 choices, Dish, DirecTv or no TV. Not once have I heard anyone lament their choice because of PQ or the PVR, instead its always 'when was that on?! #@#$ I don't get that channel'.

That said I have had D* about 12-13 years too, and as long as they have Sunday Ticket and a greater emphasis on sports than Dish I'll be a customer. But if say D* let NFL Ticket and the sport nets go and Dish picked them up then I become a Dish customer.

When I'm watching TV what matters most is what's available for me to watch, not who got it here.

Just sayin' . . . 



AtlHDTV said:


> DirecTV is launching a new satellite in September. Then who will have more HD channels?


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## Ron Barry

To Op. 

In terms of PQ there are numerous threads discussing who offers better. I have read them all, have seen DirecTV and Dish (Dish Sub) and to me I personally feel it depends on the configuration, what channels you watch, and for the most part I would consider them equal. 

On the DVR front, From what I can see here both are actively developed though DirecTV is more public about their development. Here is what I see as the main differences to consider.

1) D* definitely is more sports oriented in its offerings. 
2) If you are in LA and can get OTA. Dish currently offers a receiver that can record 2 OTA and 2 Sat HD streams at one time. This comes in real handy during the network seasons. They all have a receiver that will do 3. 
3) Dish does do external archiving, but it is a closed system. You can't move the files to your PC and watch them. You can however, move your EHD from DVR to DVR. 
4) External Web Programming. Given what I know about DirecTVs implementation I would give the nod here to Dish. 
5) DVR stability and functionality. General opinion is that Dish HD DVRs are better but it all comes down to what you consider must have. For me 3 HD streams at once, PIP, and Side by Side viewing are strong points in the plus category.

I do agree with the post above that content is king. Start there and if both meet your needs, then look at the features that separate the companies. That should help your decision.


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## bidger

mystic7 said:


> I wanna know how a guy with only 6 posts rates his own front page headline link!


I'd also like to know how much assistance is required in this. I made my choice over 10 years ago and it didn't take that long. It comes down to this, which provider has the most of what you want _right now_. It might take rocket science to launch the birds, but it shouldn't to choose a provider IMO.


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## coldsteel

Yeah, it pretty much boils down to the channels the OP wants to watch and who has them or more of them. He's already stated his (low) opinion of sports except the Lakers, so ST/EI or lack thereof doesn't matter a quid. Both have Fox Sports West, and both have Lakers games in HD.

Both have a 1-TV HDDVR. No clue how the DirecTV one operates, been off DirecTV too long. The vip612 works, but is missing PIP. Two 612 with Dish is $100 up-front, another $99 for no commitment.


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## gully_foyle

Newshawk said:


> I know I'm late to the party, but I noticed that no one addressed the question of local channels.
> 
> I see you're in Los Angeles. When it comes to local HD channels, both Dish and DirecTV will give you the Big 4 (KABC, KNBC, KCBS and KTTV/FOX). Dish also has KTLA/CW and KCAL/Ind. DirecTV has KTLA/CW, KCOP/MNT, and two PBS stations, KCET and KOCE. DirecTV also has a third PBS station (KLCS, Ch 58) that provides its -2 subchannel (the agreement between DirecTV and the Asssociation of Public Television Stations is that each station can opt for either HD carriage or carriage of one of its subchannels.) So it ends up that DirecTV has 9 HD locals and one subchannel in LA to Dish's 6.


DirecTV has 2,4,5,7,9,11,13,28,50 & an SD school-room subchannel of PBS-58, so that's 10, or 9/12 anyway. KCAL-9 is the one you're missing. This represents all of the old-style "VHF" stations, plus all the PBS stations. Some of the other "UHF" channels may be carried in a foreign-language package. CBS,NBC,ABC,FOX,CW,MNT, 2 1/2 PBS and the independent KCAL.


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## NaperDan

Every Dish subscriber I've known has either switched away from it or wished they had.


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## Gene Steinberg

NaperDan said:


> Every Dish subscriber I've known has either switched away from it or wished they had.


Well, they have 13.1 million left. 

Peace,
Gene


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## somguy

I've had both and had typed this up before and kept it to remind me about Dish. I copied and pasted it for you to view; I hope that I was able to help.

DISH NETWORK – ADVANTAGES VS. DISADVANTAGES

ADVANTAGES
1.	Dual buffered tuners.
2.	Picture In Picture.
3.	You can see what tuner a show will record on.
4.	When you hit record on a current show that you’re watching, you can choose how long to record it for.
5.	You can see how much HD and SD record time you have left.
6.	You can delete all upcoming recordings at once.
7.	You can delete all Caller ID calls at once.
8.	You can add an external Hard drive.
9.	You can pay your bill using the DVR.
10.	You have an All Subscription option using the guide showing only your channels that you are subscribed to.
11.	You have the ability to use an off-air antenna (only CBS & ABC showed up for me).
12.	You have the ability to see two and a half hours in the guide on the HD DVR.
13.	Ability to use DISH Pass = Wish List for movies that you would like to see and have recorded.

DISADVANTAGES
1.	You cannot search for a channel or a person.
2.	Title search does not start to auto-populate.
3.	You cannot auto record a show or a season pass using the guide.
4.	You cannot set recording defaults.
5.	You cannot set defaults to keep all shows until you choose to delete them.
6.	You cannot choose a date and time when using the guide.
7.	The guide only shows the next nine days.
8.	Does not offer as much HD channels as DirecTV.
9.	When you tune to a channel that you are not subscribed to, you have to hit channel up or down and cannot use the number pad to change the channel.
10.	Pressing stop does not put regular tv back on.
11.	When behind in a program, you have to choose Live TV first in order to change the channel.
12.	The DVR must daily update in order to update the guide.
13.	The hard drive is very loud.
14.	Poor customer service.
15.	When pausing, you cannot clear out the bar at the bottom of the screen.
16.	Customer service is in the Philippines.
17.	You do not have the ability to force a software update.
18.	When you are fast forwarding a show and you press play, it does not skip back eight seconds.
19.	Fast forwarding is way too fast.
20.	Cinemax is not free.
21.	You cannot hide SD duplicates in the guide.
22.	Picture quality is worse in SD.
23.	You have to use two satellites on your roof instead of one.


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## NaperDan

Gene Steinberg said:


> Well, they have 13.1 million left.
> 
> Peace,
> Gene


And, last I heard, they continue to lose customers faster than they can sign up - via Investors Business Daily.


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## harsh

somguy said:


> I've had both and had typed this up before and kept it to remind me about Dish. I copied and pasted it for you to view; I hope that I was able to help.
> 
> DISH NETWORK - ADVANTAGES VS. DISADVANTAGES


Like everything that is in print, your list is a little out of date. DIRECTV is addressing some of the advantages and DISH has addressed some of the disadvantages. Personal preferences may be different and a given individual may hold a different opinion about what is a plus or minus. Only a small percentage of satellite subscribers give the nod to DIRECTV's SD PQ.


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## harsh

NaperDan said:


> And, last I heard, they continue to lose customers faster than they can sign up - via Investors Business Daily.


I think you might be surprised if you look at the number of customers that each service has sent packing.


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## Gene Steinberg

You have some factual errors in your disadvantage listing:

1. I have but one dish, not two and I have the "America's Everything" package and Gold HD.

2. Dish claims 140 HD channels versus 130 for DirecTV. For most news and entertainment channels, though, their offerings are very, very close.

3. Which DVR do you have? Our VIP-722's hard drive doesn't make excessive noise. That can also be a symptom of a failing drive, so you may need to contact a support person.

4. Picture quality is supposed to be worse in SD, my friend.

5. When I called customer support I got an English speaking person clearly located in the USA.

As to some of the rest of your "complaints," they are largely interface quibbles that some may agree with and others might not. So I'll leave them for others to discuss. Compared to the Scientific Atlanta setup from Cox, the Dish DVR is much, much better and independent reviewers have said it's the best on the market.

It may not be TiVO, but listen: Charlie may have to license TiVO to settle that lawsuit, which means you may end up with it anyway.

Peace,
Gene


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## somguy

I had the VIP 722 I think for 10 days last July and went right back to Directv. At the time they told me that their csr's were located in the Philippines. When I said SD is worse, I meant worse than Directv's SD, of course SD is worse than HD, duh!! I also heard that all of their harddrives are loud; definitely louder than Directv's. Those were just my observations and have been happy with Directv ever since. I was upset with D* back then but compared to DISH and the price of cable I believe that Directv outways them all.


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## Gene Steinberg

They weren't in the Philippines when I called, the hard drive on mine isn't loud, and I didn't see any material difference in SD reception between DirecTV and Dish. Both are better than my local cable provider.

Glad you're satisfied with DirecTV. I don't know anyone personally who has had good support from them. They blew the installation process at my home and lost an account, as I previously reported.

Peace,
Gene


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## bonscott87

As noted, a bit out of date. I can't address the disadvantages as I don't have Dish but I can address the advantages.



somguy said:


> DISH NETWORK - ADVANTAGES VS. DISADVANTAGES
> 
> ADVANTAGES
> 1.	Dual buffered tuners.
> *DirecTV has this in testing so should be available soon.*
> 
> 4.	When you hit record on a current show that you're watching, you can choose how long to record it for.
> *Not sure I understand this one but you can certainly adjust how long you record something on DirecTV as well.*
> 
> 5.	You can see how much HD and SD record time you have left.
> *DirecTV has a free space indicator.*
> 
> 6.	You can delete all upcoming recordings at once.
> *You can as well on DirecTV. Unless I misunderstand the feature on Dish.*
> 
> 8.	You can add an external Hard drive.
> *Same with DirecTV. It is implemented a little different in that it replaces the internal. Then again there isn't a charge to activate the external drive like on Dish either.*
> 
> 10.	You have an All Subscription option using the guide showing only your channels that you are subscribed to.
> *Same with DirecTV although there are a couple bugs with it. You can also create 2 favorite lists of just what channels you want to see.*
> 
> 11.	You have the ability to use an off-air antenna (only CBS & ABC showed up for me).
> *Same with DirecTV.*
> 
> 12.	You have the ability to see two and a half hours in the guide on the HD DVR.
> *Same with DirecTV.*
> 
> 13.	Ability to use DISH Pass = Wish List for movies that you would like to see and have recorded.
> *Same with DirecTV.*


----------



## Gene Steinberg

bonscott87 said:


> As noted, a bit out of date. I can't address the disadvantages as I don't have Dish but I can address the advantages.


This argument is largely boring. They are two highly competitive companies with similar pricing and similar feature sets. Sometimes one leapfrogs the other. From reading the information online and not just this forum I see that picture quality has also gone back and forth over the years as data is more heavily compressed in wait of new satellite launchings.

In the end, from a normal viewing distance, I doubt most people would notice a significant difference either way with normal reception.

I gather both have customer service problems, although mine are focused more at DirecTV, particularly when I talked to them on behalf of my sister-in-law to get simple information about simple solutions.

But if one service has the programming you want, and the other doesn't -- so long as you are able to get a clear signal -- I expect that's the service you get.

I wasn't given a choice. I have a clear southward view without obstructions, but the DirecTV installers were clueless and unprepared, and the company had no interest in following up to address the problem.

So far Dish is fine, but I haven't had them long enough to encounter software updates, monsoon weather here in Arizona and other potential ills. But they were decent the first time I used them at another residence years ago.

Peace,
Gene


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## somguy

First off, you cannot delete all recordings at once with Directv. Secondly, unless you buy the Am-21 you cannot use an antenna on the new dvrs. Also, using the Directv Guide, you can only see what's on for the next hour, unless you highlight the channel on the left and press info. so there's more work to be done. Of course the TIVO guides are the best but maybe one day!! Still all in all, IMHO Directv far outways DISH!!



bonscott87 said:


> As noted, a bit out of date. I can't address the disadvantages as I don't have Dish but I can address the advantages.


Quote:
Originally Posted by somguy 
DISH NETWORK - ADVANTAGES VS. DISADVANTAGES

ADVANTAGES
1. Dual buffered tuners.
DirecTV has this in testing so should be available soon.

4. When you hit record on a current show that you're watching, you can choose how long to record it for.
Not sure I understand this one but you can certainly adjust how long you record something on DirecTV as well.

5. You can see how much HD and SD record time you have left.
DirecTV has a free space indicator.

6. You can delete all upcoming recordings at once.
You can as well on DirecTV. Unless I misunderstand the feature on Dish.

8. You can add an external Hard drive.
Same with DirecTV. It is implemented a little different in that it replaces the internal. Then again there isn't a charge to activate the external drive like on Dish either.

10. You have an All Subscription option using the guide showing only your channels that you are subscribed to.
Same with DirecTV although there are a couple bugs with it. You can also create 2 favorite lists of just what channels you want to see.

11. You have the ability to use an off-air antenna (only CBS & ABC showed up for me).
Same with DirecTV.

12. You have the ability to see two and a half hours in the guide on the HD DVR.
Same with DirecTV.

13. Ability to use DISH Pass = Wish List for movies that you would like to see and have recorded.
Same with DirecTV.

__________________
Scott


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## RAD

somguy said:


> Secondly, unless you buy the Am-21 you cannot use an antenna on the new dvrs.
> Scott


It appears that Dish is also going that route, their new HD DVR's also don't have built in ATSC tuners, you need to purchase an additional module to add that support.


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## harsh

somguy said:


> At the time they told me that their csr's were located in the Philippines.


This sounds like hearsay.


> I also heard that all of their harddrives are loud; definitely louder than Directv's.


This sounds like hearsay too.


> Those were just my observations and have been happy with Directv ever since.


Don't confuse hearsay with personal observations. You don't have to own something to make an observation but you should at least have laid hands on it. Better comparisons come from a side-by-side audition.

Devices that have moving parts may be louder or quieter from the factory. Then there are the machines that are placed into home entertainment ovens that must crank up the fan to survive the heat.

The other side of the coin is that some machines seem to inexplicably behave differently than others. This includes picture quality. Finally, not everyone who speaks broken English is in a foreign country.


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## jsk

I'm surprised that no one has posted this yet (unless I missed it), but you can compare the E* & D* HD channels at http://dishuser.org/dvse-HD.php.

If you don't count RSNs (which you can't get all of them anyhow), and PPV, E* has 79HD channels and D* has 70 HD channels. This number includes premium movie channels (E* has 22 and D* has 15).


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## RAD

jsk said:


> If you don't count RSNs (which you can't get all of them anyhow)...


But where D* comes out ahead on RSN's is that they have many of them full time and when not they have game only HD feeds of the RSN's. With E* many of their RSN's are part time HD channels and even then there are a number of times where your local teams game is provided by the RSN in HD E* doesn't have the capacity to provide the game in HD so you're stuck with a SD version. This rearly happens with D*, if the game is in HD then there's a good chance you'll get the game in HD.


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## bonscott87

Gene Steinberg said:


> This argument is largely boring. They are two highly competitive companies with similar pricing and similar feature sets.


And your point? Was simply claifiing some of the advantages of Dish pointing out that DirecTV does indeed have some of the same features.

If you read my first response to the poster, I recommended that he get Dish.


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## bonscott87

somguy said:


> First off, you cannot delete all recordings at once with Directv.


Specific example? Sure I can. I can easily blow a series link away to nuke the whole thing. I can also use "mark and delete" to easily mark several (or all) recordings in the playlist to all be deleted at once. I don't know how Dish does it but you can certainly do it on DirecTV as well, perhaps just in a different way



> Secondly, unless you buy the Am-21 you cannot use an antenna on the new dvrs.


The HR20 has OTA built in. Otherwise yes, you need an AM21 (which most people get for free). And your point is again? The real point is that DirecTV can indeed do OTA which the post seemed to indicate that you couldn't.



> Also, using the Directv Guide, you can only see what's on for the next hour, unless you highlight the channel on the left and press info. so there's more work to be done.


Not sure what guide you're looking at but I'm looking at my guide right now and it's the standard hour and a half. You can't change it to anything less (or more) then that.


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## harsh

bonscott87 said:


> The HR20 has OTA built in. Otherwise yes, you need an AM21 (which most people get for free).


I don't think this is the case. Those who are upgrading from HR10s have been relatively fortunate but others have been paying. It seems reasonable that the AM21 an the DISH dual tuner module should be free as they are useless without their respective receivers.

Let's file it under the cost to the provider of shorting you on LIL.


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## tim99

Of course that's true but somguy is right. Dish outsources a portion of their email and phone support to ePLDT Ventus in the Philippines. Ventus is the call center subsidary of PDLT (Philippine Long Distance Telephone).



> Finally, not everyone who speaks broken English is in a foreign country.


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## bonscott87

harsh said:


> I don't think this is the case. Those who are upgrading from HR10s have been relatively fortunate but others have been paying. It seems reasonable that the AM21 an the DISH dual tuner module should be free as they are useless without their respective receivers.
> 
> Let's file it under the cost to the provider of shorting you on LIL.


I pretty much agree with you. DirecTV however has been pretty good about providing the AM21 for free (or at most shipping cost) if you 1) don't have HD LIL on the sat or 2) You claim you need it for HD channels that aren't carried like PBS or CW.


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## bonscott87

tim99 said:


> Of course that's true but somguy is right. Dish outsources a portion of their email and phone support to ePLDT Ventus in the Philippines. Ventus is the call center subsidary of PDLT (Philippine Long Distance Telephone).


Yep. Most (all?) of Dish's customer service is done off shore in places like Philippines and India.

Most of DirecTV's customer service call centers are done in the United States in "cheaper" locals like Idaho and Oklahoma. They do have 1 call center in the Philippines for overnight support.


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## tim99

Not sure currently but in a 2006(ish) meeting with Convergys (who does a portion of U.S support for D*, TWC and Comcast among others) we were told that Dish did about 20% of their support thru Ventus in the Philippines. IIRC at the time Dish had 11-12 call centers in the U.S and they were just opening 1-2 in TX, something about converting old Walmart stores to call centers which is the only reason I remember it.

Again tho that data is 2-3 years old. I know Convergys is ramping up in the Philippines and just opened a few new call centers there this year but I didn't know until you said that they were servicing any D* accounts. I know Convergys has like 20,000 employees there.



bonscott87 said:


> Yep. Most (all?) of Dish's customer service is done off shore in places like Philippines and India.
> 
> Most of DirecTV's customer service call centers are done in the United States in "cheaper" locals like Idaho and Oklahoma. They do have 1 call center in the Philippines for overnight support.


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## ht2

I am sports fan(I need Speed ch HD) so I stuck with d*.

My complain to D*:
Some D* CSRs are very bad also.
We are told to have better then dual buffer support more then one year ago and also told expand 50 more ch last satellite but we got only 5-10ch plus 20-30 useless PPVHD ch. So don't buy something with promises only.
Remote response is very bad on HR21 HDDVR.

If you don't care about sports E* is better chice for OP because free 1st HDDVR and more premium HD channels. 

But if I am movie fan, the current best value is Comcast $30 digital cable + on demand and HBO package for 12 month and I will add $20 Netflix package to get Blu-ray disks for movies.
You get
1. The Best PQ and Sound of Blu-ray movie.
2. Most local HDTV support.
3. 1394 output port. I think there is E-SATA drive support if you get TIVO HDDVR.

You save money for 12 month then check D*, E*, FIOS and ATT Uverse again next year because Comcast will charge arms and legs after the promotion price.


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## Ron Barry

bonscott87 said:


> Yep. Most (all?) of Dish's customer service is done off shore in places like Philippines and India.
> 
> Most of DirecTV's customer service call centers are done in the United States in "cheaper" locals like Idaho and Oklahoma. They do have 1 call center in the Philippines for overnight support.


Not sure of the numbers or the percentages are, but Dish definitely has both On and Offshore support. Infact, it is usually suggested to call during the day to get a onshore CSR. I personally I have not seen any numbers that would suggest using "Most" to describe their support structure and it definitely is not all.


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## bonscott87

Ron Barry said:


> Not sure of the numbers or the percentages are, but Dish definitely has both On and Offshore support. Infact, it is usually suggested to call during the day to get a onshore CSR. I personally I have not seen any numbers that would suggest using "Most" to describe their support structure and it definitely is not all.


Thanks for the correction. I think I've read the "most" a few times over at the other site and that they have just 1 or 2 call centers left in the US. But obviously I don't follow Dish that closely so I could be wrong. But I do know that most of DirecTV's call centers are here in the US with just offshore for the overnight hours.


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## 3dfan

I read all the cons and prons and to me DISH has the best characteristics as DIRECTV !


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## Dolphins72

There is no doubt that DirectTV HD is superior to Dish HD. I myself have DishHD and I can tell by looking that it is inferior to DirectTV HD. At the place where I work, we have DirecTV and the HD picture quality is far superior to Dish HD. At work we have been watching alot of the Olympic coverage on our local NBC station, and the HD picture at work on DirecTV is a lot better than the supposedly HD picture on my dish network. Alot of the time, it looks like it is not even in HD even though the program info says it is in HD. I had previously had Mediacom HD and it is far superior to Dish and I now wish I would have stuck with them. But I switched because the picture quality on the non-HD channels was terrible and they kept raising prices and also the number of HD channels that you get with Mediacom was small. The major complaint I have with Dish is that they have too many shopping and religion channels on their smaller pkgs. I have the 120+ pkg which roughly comes to about 160 channels, and I figured that I watch maybe 25 of those channels. That even includes the local channels. If I wanted to I could switch back to DirectV. Their HD is just better. By the way, this thread is not more than 1093 days as it has warned me about. Today is Wednesday August 8,2012.


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## Dolphins72

Ron Barry said:


> Not sure of the numbers or the percentages are, but Dish definitely has both On and Offshore support. Infact, it is usually suggested to call during the day to get a onshore CSR. I personally I have not seen any numbers that would suggest using "Most" to describe their support structure and it definitely is not all.


I definitely have noticed that. I get tired of having to talk to people who cannot speak english clearly. Anytime that I get someone from INDIA, I hang up and call again till I get someone who is American! You can take that as bigotry or whatever but the one thing I cannot stand are people who cannot speak our language well. There are plenty of people in the USA that could do the job just as well.


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## James Long

Dolphins72 said:


> By the way, this thread is not more than 1093 days as it has warned me about. Today is Wednesday August 8,2012.


Actually, it was. The last post in the thread was nearly three years ago.
You have woken up a very old thread for your "argument".


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## SayWhat?

Dolphins72 said:


> but the one thing I cannot stand are people who cannot speak our language well.





Dolphins72 said:


> At work we have been watching alot of the
> 
> Alot of the time,


'_Alot_' is not a word.

_Allot_ is a word.

_A lot_ is two words.


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## Shades228

Dolphins72 said:


> There is no doubt that DirectTV HD is superior to Dish HD. I myself have DishHD and I can tell by looking that it is inferior to DirectTV HD. At the place where I work, we have DirecTV and the HD picture quality is far superior to Dish HD. At work we have been watching alot of the Olympic coverage on our local NBC station, and the HD picture at work on DirecTV is a lot better than the supposedly HD picture on my dish network. Alot of the time, it looks like it is not even in HD even though the program info says it is in HD. I had previously had Mediacom HD and it is far superior to Dish and I now wish I would have stuck with them. But I switched because the picture quality on the non-HD channels was terrible and they kept raising prices and also the number of HD channels that you get with Mediacom was small. The major complaint I have with Dish is that they have too many shopping and religion channels on their smaller pkgs. I have the 120+ pkg which roughly comes to about 160 channels, and I figured that I watch maybe 25 of those channels. That even includes the local channels. If I wanted to I could switch back to DirectV. Their HD is just better. By the way, this thread is not more than 1093 days as it has warned me about. Today is Wednesday August 8,2012.





Dolphins72 said:


> I definitely have noticed that. I get tired of having to talk to people who cannot speak english clearly. Anytime that I get someone from INDIA, I hang up and call again till I get someone who is American! You can take that as bigotry or whatever but the one thing I cannot stand are people who cannot speak our language well. There are plenty of people in the USA that could do the job just as well.


I bet they could read a date properly though.


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## PrinceLH

OK, I'm game. Directv has a better overall picture quality, it has AMCHD and that's a plus. Their call centers are mostly in the U.S. But over-the-air is better and less compressed, in regards to locals.


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## Laxguy

Dolphins72 said:


> I definitely have noticed that. I get tired of having to talk to people who cannot speak english clearly. Anytime that I get someone from INDIA, I hang up and call again till I get someone who is American! You can take that as bigotry or whatever but the one thing I cannot stand are people who cannot speak our language well. There are plenty of people in the USA that could do the job just as well.


There are also legions of Americans who can't speak English worth a hoot, or are too dense to be of help for all but the most mundane of tasks.


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## Laxguy

SayWhat? said:


> '_Alot_' is not a word.
> 
> _Allot_ is a word.
> 
> _A lot_ is two words.


Since we're allotted but one correction per diem, I will point out that all right is two words; one sees "alright" a lot of the time. Bleah!


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## Tiny

Dish network the Tennesse vs NC state game look like bleep in SD on my HD set last night thinking about when I still had Direct TV HD ESPNU .
:nono2:


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## CCarncross

Laxguy said:


> Since we're allotted but one correction per diem, I will point out that all right is two words; one sees "alright" a lot of the time. Bleah!


How about I-eegut-blah instead? :lol:

Anyone remember Greg the Bunny?


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## Clearcreek

ESPNU in SD is one reason I have hesitated going from Direct to a Hopper. Also, no over the air tuner as of yet.


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## Jhon69

Clearcreek said:


> ESPNU in SD is one reason I have hesitated going from Direct to a Hopper. Also, no over the air tuner as of yet.


That's why I went with DISH's VIP922/wMT2.It has 2 satellite tuners and 2 OTA tuners.It also has DISH's new HDDVR format(channel logo guide and Menu Tiles).But it's not a whole home system which I don't need so I went with a VIP211k in each of my 3 bedrooms.


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## PrinceLH

Dish, Directv, they both have pros and cons. Whatever makes a person happy with their satellite provider. I prefer Directv, but for some that's not their choice. I'd consider Dish, if they added MeTV, AntennaTV and RTV. Of course I need AMC too!


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## Jhon69

PrinceLH said:


> Dish, Directv, they both have pros and cons. Whatever makes a person happy with their satellite provider. I prefer Directv, but for some that's not their choice. I'd consider Dish, if they added MeTV, AntennaTV and RTV. Of course I need AMC too!


Don't know if you can get MeTV,AntennaTV and RTV locally,but I get MeTV,AntennaTV and THiS Network OTA where I live.


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## PrinceLH

We have none in our DMA but sometimes can receive MeTV, when the tropo is right. Also have seen AntennaTV via good Tropo, from Buffalo, but that's over 160 miles away! At least Rochester is about 100 miles over open water.


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## Clearcreek

Jhon69 said:


> That's why I went with DISH's VIP922/wMT2.It has 2 satellite tuners and 2 OTA tuners.It also has DISH's new HDDVR format(channel logo guide and Menu Tiles).But it's not a whole home system which I don't need so I went with a VIP211k in each of my 3 bedrooms.


I did not know that option was available. Now all I need is to wait for ESPNU in HD.


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