# Is there a DVR "Recycle Bin"



## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

I'm pretty sure the answer is no... but the wife wants me to ask anyway. She deleted one of her episodes of "The Sing Off" on nbc on the DVR. Normally I can just grab it on BitTorrent, but no one seems to be ripping this show. We can use Hulu to get it, but the resolution stinks vs. a 720p torrent.

So when you delete a program, there is no recovery or recycle bin correct?


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## JACKIEGAGA (Dec 11, 2006)

Sorry no bin wish there was one


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## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

JACKIEGAGA said:


> Sorry no bin wish there was one


Ok that's what I thought, but I promised her I would ask!

Thanks.

This happened yesterday, so if there was a recycle bin, it may of been overwritten by now anyway (a few recordings occurred since then).


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## fluffybear (Jun 19, 2004)

JACKIEGAGA said:


> Sorry no bin wish there was one


+1, I would think that a recycle bin would be one of the most desired features and am quite surprised that it does not already exist..


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## ndole (Aug 26, 2009)

fluffybear said:


> +1, I would think that a recycle bin would be one of the most desired features and am quite surprised that it does not already exist..


:whatdidid I don't get it. If you don't want it deleted... don't delete it :lol:

As far as accidental deletion, you have to press the button, and the DVR even asks, "Are you sure?".


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## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

I don't know how she deleted it. I know sometimes there are delay or latency issues with the remote, and maybe she overcompensated and the software 'caught up' and ended up saying yes to delete. I know I almost deleted stuff by accident before.


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## Go Beavs (Nov 18, 2008)

ndole_mbnd said:


> :whatdidid I don't get it. If you don't want it deleted... don't delete it :lol:
> 
> As far as accidental deletion, you have to press the button, and the DVR even asks, "Are you sure?".


Yeah, except if you hit 'dash-dash' the show will be gone immediately. I've done it once or twice to myself  and once to my wife. :eek2:


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

cypherx said:


> I don't know how she deleted it. I know sometimes there are delay or latency issues with the remote, and maybe she overcompensated and the software 'caught up' and ended up saying yes to delete. I know I almost deleted stuff by accident before.


Mistakes happen. We all make them. Wishing for a Trash Bin is probably one of those mistakes. Look at how the DLB NR that made so many people happy screwed up so very many HRs. Be careful what you wish for.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Go Beavs said:


> Yeah, except if you hit 'dash-dash' the show will be gone immediately. I've done it once or twice to myself  and once to my wife. :eek2:


That's one trick play to avoid. I like being asked if I really want to delete it.

Rich


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## JACKIEGAGA (Dec 11, 2006)

Go Beavs said:


> Yeah, except if you hit 'dash-dash' the show will be gone immediately. I've done it once or twice to myself  and once to my wife. :eek2:


Same here I dont use dash-dash anymore


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## Steveknj (Nov 14, 2006)

Go Beavs said:


> Yeah, except if you hit 'dash-dash' the show will be gone immediately. I've done it once or twice to myself  and once to my wife. :eek2:


I never dash-dash my wife :lol:


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## Go Beavs (Nov 18, 2008)

Steveknj said:


> I never dash-dash my wife :lol:


!rolling

Yeah, I learned my lesson... won't do that again. :lol:


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

How hard would it be to give us a Recycle Bin???


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## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

Did DirecTivo have one? Doesn't the real TiVo have one? Of course whatever is in "the bin" would be subject to be overwritten if needed.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

cypherx said:


> Of course whatever is in "the bin" would be subject to be overwritten if needed.


Of course but normally when you accidentally Delete a Show or your Kids Delete it, it hasn't been that long since it's been Deleted so the chance of it still being there is still Great!!!


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

cypherx said:


> Did DirecTivo have one? Doesn't the real TiVo have one? Of course whatever is in "the bin" would be subject to be overwritten if needed.


DirecTivo (SD or HD) never had one. Standalone Tivos have one now (they didn't originally). I assume the cable ones that they are doing with cable companies have one and, probably, the new DirecTivo will have one.

The recycle bin does not get overwritten on Tivo until it needs to. The order of disk usage on the Tivo is:

1) unused space
2) deleted items (in reverse date order)
3) autorecorded suggestions
4) "expired" programs (those beyond their keep by date)
5) non-expired programs

Not a huge fan of the recycle bin because as implemented by Tivo because deletions happen right away without any confirmation. If you made a mistake, you have to sift through the bin to get the show back. I normally keep recycle bins on email and computers clean, so I like them clean on my DVRs too. That drove me nuts (yes, a bit anal there). If a recycle bin was implemented to it asked if I want to delete something and it went in the bin, I would probably try to never look in there. But I did not like that I got no deletion confirmation on Tivo.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

tonyd79 said:


> DirecTivo (SD or HD) never had one.


Not true. My son has a SAMSUNG SIR-S4040R DirecTivo and it has a "recently deleted" folder from which you can recover deleted programs.

and from a May 26, 2008 Engadget article:


> ...recently as DirecTV pushed down a long awaited update (6.4a). All the new features included in the update are an old hat to stand-alone TiVo owners, but appreciated all the same as DirecTV subscribers can finally take advantage of having a *Recently Deleted folder*, Overlap Protection, and DirecTV Remote Booking.


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## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

Ok, I thought that I saw that feature somewhere. I knew it was technically possible.

I think the Comcast Tivo software on Motorola set tops has it too. One of the big requests was a percentage free indicator. They always said that it would not be useful, because once the drive hit 100% full, it stayed there. It just overwrote deleted programs, autorecord programs and expired programs in that order.

Tivo software pushed to Motorola DCH/DCX cable boxes never seemed to get out of a few New England regional systems.


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## nighthawk777 (May 1, 2008)

Didn't someone in the forums report that you could view a deleted show by going to history under manage recordings and clicking on the date and time of the episode that had been deleted and it would play as long as it hadn't be overwritten. Or maybe that was just a reported problem with a certain firmware.


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## wagman (Jul 11, 2007)

trh said:


> Not true. My son has a SAMSUNG SIR-S4040R DirecTivo and it has a "recently deleted" folder from which you can recover deleted programs.


I can also confirm that the HR10-250 DirecTivo also has the feature as I had to use it just last week....and, of course, it was because the wife (as wonderful as she is) had "accidentally" deleted a show.:grin:


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

The "recycled bin" was added to the D* Tivo's after that 6.3 update, the last official one IIRC....so for the 1st few years of the D* Tivo' lives they did not have the ability. I have no idea when Tivo added it to their standalone products or how many years it was before their standalone products offered it either...


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## davel (May 1, 2007)

CCarncross said:


> The "recycled bin" was added to the D* Tivo's after that 6.3 update, the last official one IIRC....so for the 1st few years of the D* Tivo' lives they did not have the ability. I have no idea when Tivo added it to their standalone products or how many years it was before their standalone products offered it either...


I had one in 2001 on an SD Directivo. Granted I had to add the network card and do it over http. I think it was called tivoweb. Hilarious that Tivo had that control NINE YEARS AGO and directv is just toying with http control now.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

davel said:


> Hilarious that Tivo had that control NINE YEARS AGO and Directv is just toying with http control now.


It is just all a matter of Corporate Priorities.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

davel said:


> Hilarious that Tivo had that control NINE YEARS AGO and directv is just toying with http control now.


Then again...they haven't done much of anything with their products since...being lapped and outdone by their competitors.


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Then again...they haven't done much of anything with their products since...being lapped and outdone by their competitors.


Kind of a case of "What have you done for me lately", eh?

It's going to be hard for this new product to live up to people's expectations, especially since they have been strung along for such an extended period.


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Then again...they haven't done much of anything with their products since...being lapped and outdone by their competitors.


That is certainly not my experience. If it were true, my TiVo would not still be connected and used every day doing things my HR24 can't do yet. If it could do those things in High Def, it would be the HR24 that got unplugged.

Now if you are talking only about the DirecTV DVR With TiVo service, like the HR1-250, you are right, but that isn't TiVo's fault, DirecTV prevented the networking features from being added.


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

hasan said:


> It's going to be hard for this new product to live up to people's expectations, especially since they have been strung along for such an extended period.


Especially if DirecTV limits the feature set. Of course Netflix would not be allowed, but that is apparently because of content producer rules, not a limititation imposed by TiVo, DirecTV or Netflx. But there are so many other features I would want to see on this box for it to meet my expectations, which were set by having and using stand alone TiVo boxes. The recycle bin is one I miss a great deal though. Another is being able to clear the time bar in pause. I had no idea that the silly thing would sit there forever in pause, even frame advancing doesn't wipe it out.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

hasan said:


> It's going to be hard for this new product to live up to people's expectations, especially since they have been strung along for such an extended period.


They have not been strung along...*they* have repeated their failure to deliver, just like they did for ComCraps' unit. They were one large (last minute lifesaving) contract away from going underwater as well about 3 1/2 years ago....but people forget those things.


CuriousMark said:


> That is certainly not my experience. If it were true, my TiVo would not still be connected and used every day doing things my HR24 can't do yet. If it could do those things in High Def, it would be the HR24 that got unplugged.
> 
> Now if you are talking only about the DirecTV DVR With TiVo service, like the HR1-250, you are right, but that isn't TiVo's fault, *DirecTV prevented the networking features from being added*.


I'd love to see that documented somewhere, as to who's choice it was.

The "old" DirecTiVo here was littered with years of issues, and hardly had many of the things found in today's HR24 series HD DVR. Paying extra on top of that for TiVo is a joke.

As for failing to support this millennium's networking capabilities...heck..they're already going on 2 years behind making a next generation "new Tivobox" unit...and I bet it fails to match some of the HR24 capabilities too.

TiVo diehards a a loyal bunch, but blinders are not becoming on anyone, except maybe a horse. :lol:

As for the recycle bin...a nice idea.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Then again...they haven't done much of anything with their products since...being lapped and outdone by their competitors.


That's because they have been working very hard trying to get the New Directivo out the door for the past 3 years!!! :lol:


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

richierich said:


> That's because they have been working very hard trying to get the New Directivo out the door for the past 3 years!!! :lol:


Maybe it'll support color TV this time around. :lol:


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> They have not been strung along...*they* have repeated their failure to deliver, just like they did for ComCraps' unit. They were one large (last minute lifesaving) contract away from going underwater as well about 3 1/2 years ago....but people forget those things.
> 
> I'd love to see that documented somewhere, as to who's choice it was.
> 
> ...


I had nothing but problems with my TiVos. Now that the HRs have finally settled down I find it hard to believe that a new TiVo is gonna blow the doors off the HRs.



> As for the recycle bin...a nice idea.


As long as the implementation isn't disruptive.

Rich


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

rich584 said:


> I had nothing but problems with my TiVos. Now that the HRs have finally settled down I find it hard to believe that a new TiVo is gonna blow the doors off the HRs.


I suspect you are spot on. 


> As long as the implementation isn't disruptive.


Well of course.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> As for the recycle bin...a nice idea.


Yes a Very Nice Idea and How Hard Would It Be For Directv to set this up for us???


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

richierich said:


> Yes a Very Nice Idea and How Hard Would It Be For Directv to set this up for us???


I'll ask Mike White the next time I talk to him.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

richierich said:


> Yes a Very Nice Idea and How Hard Would It Be For Directv to set this up for us???


The DLBs were a "very nice idea" and look how that turned out.

Rich


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Maybe it'll support color TV this time around. :lol:


I bet it won't Support WHDVR Service and that is a Deal Breaker for me if I was going to Consider this New Directivo Vaporware!!!


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I'd love to see that documented somewhere, as to who's choice it was.


The ultimate decision on what features are included or not on DirecTV TiVo units has always been DirecTV's. You won't find any more documentation to the contrary than I will find in support. DirecTV is the customer and TiVo is a subcontractor on these cobranded units, so let's you and I just admit that the decisions may have been mutual at best.



> TiVo diehards a a loyal bunch, but blinders are not becoming on anyone, except maybe a horse. :lol:


From here it looks like lots of people wearing "DirecTV can do no wrong" blinders. That is expected in a DirecTV forum, and fine as it stands.



> As for the recycle bin...a nice idea.


Since DirecTV allowed it to be added to the DirecTiVo's I believe they thought it was a good idea too. I wonder why they never implemented it on the HR line.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

richierich said:


> I bet it won't Support WHDVR Service and that is a Deal Breaker for me if I was going to Consider this New Directivo Vaporware!!!


Aw, it would have to, don't you think? What would be the point of having a DVR that wouldn't work with MRV? Immediate failure?

Rich


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I'll ask Mike White the next time I talk to him.


Also, ask him where my Nomad is and my Selectable (by DVR) UPL???


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

rich584 said:


> Aw, it would have to, don't you think? What would be the point of having a DVR that wouldn't work with MRV? Immediate failure?
> 
> Rich


I have Good Money To Bet that it won't be able to Support WHDVR Service at least initially when and if it ever comes out!!!

Rich, did you ever read that Thread I PMed you about the Failing or Aging Power Supplies???


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## DogLover (Mar 19, 2007)

CuriousMark said:


> Especially if DirecTV limits the feature set. Of course Netflix would not be allowed, but that is apparently because of content producer rules, not a limititation imposed by TiVo, DirecTV or Netflx. But there are so many other features I would want to see on this box for it to meet my expectations, which were set by having and using stand alone TiVo boxes. The recycle bin is one I miss a great deal though. *Another is being able to clear the time bar in pause. I had no idea that the silly thing would sit there forever in pause, even frame advancing doesn't wipe it out*.


Just in case you weren't aware, the exit button clears the time bar just fine in pause and it stays away if you subsequently do a frame advance. It's not automatic, but the box is "able" to clear the time bar.


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

DogLover said:


> Just in case you weren't aware, the exit button clears the time bar just fine in pause and it stays away if you subsequently do a frame advance. It's not automatic, but the box is "able" to clear the time bar.


I try that and the time bar is replaced with some message about networking that I then have to click to clear. Still, yes that does work, even if a little oddly. Thank you SO much for the pointer, it was driving me crazy every time I wanted to read something hidden by that time bar. I was expecting TiVo like behavior where pressing down or frame advance would clear it, but I should have remembered and tried to use clear also. I suspect the networking error message has something to do with the fact that I am doing this on the H24 when it is pulling a show from the HR24.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Why are you Pausing it?

If you want to Pause and get out hit the "Stop" Button and then Hit Exit and you are in "Live TV".


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

CuriousMark said:


> I try that and the time bar is replaced with some message about networking that I then have to click to clear. Still, yes that does work, even if a little oddly. Thank you SO much for the pointer, it was driving me crazy every time I wanted to read something hidden by that time bar. I was expecting TiVo like behavior where pressing down or frame advance would clear it, but I should have remembered and tried to use clear also. I suspect the networking error message has something to do with the fact that I am doing this on the H24 when it is pulling a show from the HR24.


???

You got an issue there. You should not get any network message when you pause, even if it is from another box.


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

davel said:


> I had one in 2001 on an SD Directivo. Granted I had to add the network card and do it over http. I think it was called tivoweb. Hilarious that Tivo had that control NINE YEARS AGO and directv is just toying with http control now.


That was a hack, IIRC, the 6.3 release that was official was around 5-6 years ago...


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Yes, I had it back then and I think that was the Last Release I was ever on because subsequent releases had problems so I stayed there so I wouldn't lose my Upgrades from PTVNET!!!


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

richierich said:


> Also, ask him where my Nomad is and my Selectable (by DVR) UPL???


I asked... he just laughed as soon as I started mentioning your name...wonder what that means.... :lol:


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I asked... he just laughed as soon as I started mentioning your name...wonder what that means.... :lol:


That Means He Knows Me Well and Calls Me From Time To Time To Chat And Ask My Opinion About All Things Directv!!! 

Don't Be Jealous!!!


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

richierich said:


> That Mean He Know Me Well and Calls Me From Time To Time To Chat And Ask My Opinion About All Things Directv!!!
> 
> Don't Be Jealous!!!


!rolling...suspect there's more to it...


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## DogLover (Mar 19, 2007)

CuriousMark said:


> I try that and the time bar is replaced with some message about networking that I then have to click to clear. Still, yes that does work, even if a little oddly. Thank you SO much for the pointer, it was driving me crazy every time I wanted to read something hidden by that time bar. I was expecting TiVo like behavior where pressing down or frame advance would clear it, but I should have remembered and tried to use clear also. I suspect the networking error message has something to do with the fact that I am doing this on the H24 when it is pulling a show from the HR24.


As tonyd79 said, it is not normal that you are receiving that message. You should be able to pause and frame advance over MRV, just the same as with a locally recorded show.


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

tonyd79 said:


> ???
> 
> You got an issue there. You should not get any network message when you pause, even if it is from another box.


The message appears when I clear the time bar using clear when on an H24 playing from an HR24. I will get the text of the message tonight and post it. I don't recall what it said, so it may not actually be a networking message, but it did seem to have something to do with pulling from the other box. Once I click OK on that message I have a paused screen with nothing blocking it.


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

DogLover said:


> As tonyd79 said, it is not normal that you are receiving that message. You should be able to pause and frame advance over MRV, just the same as with a locally recorded show.


Pause and frame advance do work fine, just with the time bar in the way. Using clear gets rid of it, with the funny message I will look up tonight, and I can still frame advance afterward.

I will try this exercise directly on the HR24 too, if I can get near it, it will have to be when my wife isn't using it.


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

CuriousMark said:


> The message appears when I clear the time bar using clear when on an H24 playing from an HR24. I will get the text of the message tonight and post it.


It says:
Receiver:...791230
SWiM Connected
OK
Once I clear that message by selecting OK, I can see the whole screen.

It doesn't have the hallmark of being something wrong. I suspect this is a normal behavior for an H24 receiver that just turns out to be odd in this context.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

CuriousMark said:


> It says:
> Receiver:...791230
> SWiM Connected
> OK
> ...


That message comes up if you hit the "-" key", normally.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

richierich said:


> I have Good Money To Bet that it won't be able to Support WHDVR Service at least initially when and if it ever comes out!!!


That just boggles the mind. What kind of initial impression would the TiVo make if it can't work with MRV right off the bat? Perhaps that's why it's taking so long to introduce the TiVo? They gotta realize that the lack of MRV will be, literally, a killer.



> Rich, did you ever read that Thread I PMed you about the Failing or Aging Power Supplies???


Not yet, I will read it.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

CCarncross said:


> That was a hack, IIRC, the 6.3 release that was official was around 5-6 years ago...


Wasn't the 6.3 release the one that caused the massive random rebooting problems? That was another reason I was happy to shut down all my TiVos.

Rich


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

rich584 said:


> Not yet, I will read it.
> 
> Rich


I think you will find it Fascinating, so go ahead and Read It!!!


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> That message comes up if you hit the "-" key", normally.


- and clear are the same key, right? There is no button actually labeled clear on the remote, but that is the key I have always used as clear on my universal remote. Perhaps I should be using some other key?


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

CuriousMark said:


> - and clear are the same key, right? There is no button actually labeled clear on the remote, but that is the key I have always used as clear on my universal remote. Perhaps I should be using some other key?


No, in order to Clear the Screen you have to Hit the Exit Key and not the "-" Key.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

rich584 said:


> Wasn't the 6.3 release the one that caused the massive random rebooting problems? That was another reason I was happy to shut down all my TiVos.
> 
> Rich


I believe it was the next release after 6.3 that caused all of the Reboot Problems.


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

richierich said:


> No, in order to Clear the Screen you have to Hit the Exit Key and not the "-" Key.


OK, thanks. This feels like MS Windows. The right way makes perfect sense only after you know what it is. Oh well, I know it now. Thank goodness for this site and people like you to help me out. I appreciate it very much.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

CuriousMark said:


> - and clear are the same key, right? There is no button actually labeled clear on the remote, but that is the key I have always used as clear on my universal remote. Perhaps I should be using some other key?


Actually....hitting the "-" (dash) key *twice* also will let you exit.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Actually....hitting the "-" (dash) key *twice* also will let you exit.


I'd be careful with that one. Too many dashes or dashes in the wrong place and you wind up deleting a program without a nag screen.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

tonyd79 said:


> I'd be careful with that one. Too many dashes or dashes in the wrong place and you wind up deleting a program without a nag screen.


It surely can sir.

That's why I don't use that way...but since they asked....


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

tonyd79 said:


> I'd be careful with that one. Too many dashes or dashes in the wrong place and you wind up deleting a program without a nag screen.


That's why I don't use the -" at all because of problems it can cause.


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

Go Beavs said:


> Yeah, except if you hit 'dash-dash' the show will be gone immediately. I've done it once or twice to myself  and once to my wife. :eek2:


So if I press 'dash-dash" she will be gone immediately? No alimony or anything?


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

richierich said:


> I believe it was the next release after 6.3 that caused all of the Reboot Problems.


Hardly matters. It was a domino effect of 6.3, which broke a lot of stuff, and ended the streak of luck that the Tivo programmers had been on since 1998. 6.3 brought Tivo down to the level of mere mortal DVRs (of course it also sped it up considerably and brought us folders for the first time). And they quickly did panic releases of 6.3b, 6.3c, 6.3d, and 6.3e, whereupon I think they finally gave up realizing that they could never fix the original problems of 6.3. And each panic release except maybe the last one broke something new.

I never heard that the reboots were tied to a version of 6.3. I had two HR10s that suffered from this during the 6.3 years, but both were fixed immediately and permanently by doing a "clear and delete", or maybe the option just above that one. And one of those was still on v3.15, and still is (it has been 2257 days since your DVR has connected to the mother ship...)


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## joed32 (Jul 27, 2006)

TomCat said:


> So if I press 'dash-dash" she will be gone immediately? No alimony or anything?


She'll be in "History"!


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## Go Beavs (Nov 18, 2008)

TomCat said:


> So if I press 'dash-dash" she will be gone immediately? No alimony or anything?


No, but I think it triggers an "early termination fee"... :lol:


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Go Beavs said:


> No, but I think it triggers an "early termination fee"... :lol:


Right about now might be where that recycle trash bin feature would come in real handy...


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

TomCat said:


> I never heard that the reboots were tied to a version of 6.3. I had two HR10s that suffered from this during the 6.3 years, but both were fixed immediately and permanently by doing a "clear and delete", or maybe the option just above that one. And one of those was still on v3.15, and still is (it has been 2257 days since your DVR has connected to the mother ship...)


I had twelve TiVos running during that wretched 6.3 update and they constantly suffered from random reboots. I think that's one of the reasons I suffered thru the first year and a half of using the HRs. The HRs certainly weren't ready for prime time, but at least they didn't suffer from those horrible random reboots.

I called D* for support of some sort and was told that I should call TiVo for that support. D* denied any responsibility for the random reboots. So, I called TiVo and I was told that the random reboots were D*'s problem and to call them. Circular argument. Went back and forth quite a few times and finally gave up. For the first time, I went to the TiVo forum (first time I ever went to a forum), and it seemed as if the random reboots weren't limited to D*'s TiVos. I saw many posts from folks that had stand alone TiVos that were doing the same thing. Didn't give me a warm, fuzzy feeling about TiVo and it's future.

Rich


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