# New dish needed?



## BHYDE-1 (Nov 2, 2007)

When I spoke to DirecTV tonight about the whole room DVR service, I was told that I would need to have a new dish (she mentioned a SWM dish) installed.

I have a 5LNB slimline dish that was installed Nov 07. 

Is this correct that they will replace this dish with another one?


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## HDTVsportsfan (Nov 29, 2005)

You need SWM in some form for DECA/MRV. If you have more than 8 total tuners then you need and external SWM16 module and no dish swap. If you have less than 8 or less tuners then yes...they would replace your dish and not use the external SWM module.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

BHYDE-1 said:


> When I spoke to DirecTV tonight about the whole room DVR service, I was told that I would need to have a new dish (she mentioned a SWM dish) installed.
> 
> I have a 5LNB slimline dish that was installed Nov 07.
> 
> Is this correct that they will replace this dish with another one?





HDTVsportsfan said:


> You need SWM in some form for DECA/MRV. If you have more than 8 total tuners then you need and external SWM16 module and no dish swap. If you have less than 8 or less tuners then yes...they would replace your dish and not use the external SWM module.


If under eight tuners, then only the LNB needs to be change to the SWiMLB.


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## HDTVsportsfan (Nov 29, 2005)

True...i made an assumption...shoukld have been more specific. The refelctor would stay and the LNB would be the only replacement.


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## jefbal99 (Sep 7, 2007)

BHYDE-1 said:


> When I spoke to DirecTV tonight about the whole room DVR service, I was told that I would need to have a new dish (she mentioned a SWM dish) installed.
> 
> I have a 5LNB slimline dish that was installed Nov 07.
> 
> Is this correct that they will replace this dish with another one?


Just the LNB will be replaced


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## tsbrady1 (Jan 6, 2006)

I have an AT9 dish so I will need to have it replaced with a SWiM type dish, I will have 2) HR20-700s and whatever they give me to replace an H20-100. Will I need a SWM8 or will the leads from the dish suffice to supply a signal to the system?


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## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

tsbrady1 said:


> I have an AT9 dish so I will need to have it replaced with a SWiM type dish, I will have 2) HR20-700s and whatever they give me to replace an H20-100. Will I need a SWM8 or will the leads from the dish suffice to supply a signal to the system?


If you have an AT-9, I believe that no matter what SWM system you end up with, a swap to an AU-9 Slimline will take place. You will more than likely end up with the SWM LNB. As long as you don't plan to expand beyond 8 tuners, that's the cleanest way to go.


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## HDJulie (Aug 10, 2008)

hilmar2k said:


> If you have an AT-9, I believe that no matter what SWM system you end up with, a swap to an AU-9 Slimline will take place. You will more than likely end up with the SWM LNB. As long as you don't plan to expand beyond 8 tuners, that's the cleanest way to go.


If that's what I have (the SWM LNB) & I add another DVR that takes me to 9 tuners, will D* come out & change out whatever equipment is needed to take me to 16 tuners, for free? I have the protection plan if that makes any difference.


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## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

HDJulie said:


> If that's what I have (the SWM LNB) & I add another DVR that takes me to 9 tuners, will D* come out & change out whatever equipment is needed to take me to 16 tuners, for free? I have the protection plan if that makes any difference.


If you get the installation included with the receiver (meaning order it from DIRECTV) then yes. If you buy it on your own, then I don't know.


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## tsbrady1 (Jan 6, 2006)

hilmar2k said:


> If you have an AT-9, I believe that no matter what SWM system you end up with, a swap to an AU-9 Slimline will take place. You will more than likely end up with the SWM LNB. As long as you don't plan to expand beyond 8 tuners, that's the cleanest way to go.


so with less than 8 tuners the SWM LNB is all I need, I do not need a SWM8?


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## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

tsbrady1 said:


> so with less than 8 tuners the SWM LNB is all I need, I do not need a SWM8?


Correct.


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## tsbrady1 (Jan 6, 2006)

Thanks hilmar2k, I appreciate the info


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## tsbrady1 (Jan 6, 2006)

OK I ordered Connected Home to be installed Friday, went pretty smoothly, the only thing that concerns me is I have an AT9 dish and the CSR said it would work with MRV, I told him that it is not SWM compatible & he said it did not matter, true or not? Anyway I asked him to have the Installer bring a SWM dish just in case, he said ok.

BTW... anybody elses in the Atlanta area have a Home Connect install yet... what was your experiance.


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## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

tsbrady1 said:


> OK I ordered Connected Home to be installed Friday, went pretty smoothly, the only thing that concerns me is I have an AT9 dish and the CSR said it would work with MRV, I told him that it is not SWM compatible & he said it did not matter, true or not? Anyway I asked him to have the Installer bring a SWM dish just in case, he said ok.
> 
> BTW... anybody elses in the Atlanta area have a Home Connect install yet... what was your experiance.


I am quite sure you'll get a new dish with a SWM LNB.


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## tsbrady1 (Jan 6, 2006)

That's what I was thinking but he insisted that any HD dish would work, I told him I was skeptical about that!


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

tsbrady1 said:


> That's what I was thinking but he insisted that any HD dish would work, I told him I was skeptical about that!


"He" may have not been around long enough to know there was more than 1 HD dish.


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## tsbrady1 (Jan 6, 2006)

hey veryoldschool, hope you get up early on Friday AM, may need your help here on the east coast!:lol:


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

tsbrady1 said:


> hey veryoldschool, hope you get up early on Friday AM, may need your help here on the east coast!:lol:


!rolling
I'll do my best. :lol:


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## DogLover (Mar 19, 2007)

tsbrady1 said:


> OK I ordered Connected Home to be installed Friday, went pretty smoothly, the only thing that concerns me is I have an AT9 dish and the CSR said it would work with MRV, I told him that it is not SWM compatible & he said it did not matter, true or not? Anyway I asked him to have the Installer bring a SWM dish just in case, he said ok.
> 
> BTW... anybody elses in the Atlanta area have a Home Connect install yet... what was your experiance.


I'm in Snellville and scheduled for this evening. (Twiddling my thumbs right now.) I'll let you know how it goes.


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## DogLover (Mar 19, 2007)

Had a great install. Installer had done 3 MRV installs before, so he was still relatively new. He realized quickly that I knew as much or more about the DECA setup than he did. (I told him I had been beta testing MRV.) However, he was willing to let me help out with the set up and learn from what I knew. (And not every guy is willing to learn from a "girl geek".)

He switched out my SWM-8 for a SL3 LNB. He brought my 103 signals up from 50's and 60's to 90's. That was really great! 

One thing that was funny was that they were only issued 8-way splitters. In my install (because of previously using existing cables) I was using both outputs of the SWM-8, one of those cables went to the family room and a 4 way splitter, the other upstairs and a 2 way splitter. So, he ended up using 8-way splitters in all 3 places. The unused outputs were terminated, so I don't think I'm losing any significant signal. However, it does seem like a waste.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

DogLover said:


> So, he ended up using 8-way splitters in all 3 places. The unused outputs were terminated, so I don't think I'm losing any significant signal. However, it does seem like a waste.


I'm guessing that this means two are being fed from the first. This is way more loss than you need to have.
I'd have them come back and use "smaller" splitters to gain resistance against rainfade.
The SWM output and the receiver's input levels shouldn't have more than around 25 dB of attenuation and an 8-way to an 8-way eats all of this up and some more, so you've lost all your "system reserve" for weather.


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## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> I'm guessing that this means two are being fed from the first. This is way more loss than you need to have.
> I'd have them come back and use "smaller" splitters to gain resistance against rainfade.
> The SWM output and the receiver's input levels shouldn't have more than around 25 dB of attenuation and an 8-way to an 8-way eats all of this up and some more, so you've lost all your "system reserve" for weather.


Even if the unused ports are terminated? I have an 8 way splitter feeding a 4 way splitter, where 4 are used on the 8 way and 2 on the 4 way. Is it worthwhile to pick up a 2 way to replace the 4 way and use that to replace the 8 way? All unused ports are terminated currently.


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## DogLover (Mar 19, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> I'm guessing that this means two are being fed from the first. This is way more loss than you need to have.
> I'd have them come back and use "smaller" splitters to gain resistance against rainfade.
> The SWM output and the receiver's input levels shouldn't have more than around 25 dB of attenuation and an 8-way to an 8-way eats all of this up and some more, so you've lost all your "system reserve" for weather.


I figured it wasn't ideal, but it's all he had, and sounded like all he had actually seen. With 103 signals going from 60's to 90's, I probably still will have signal longer in the rain than before. (Looks like I'll get to try that out Friday night.)

Next A/V project is to rearrange the family room. I'll probably wait until then to make changes, as I think that will eliminate the need for 1 of the splitters altogether.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

hilmar2k said:


> Even if the unused ports are terminated? I have an 8 way splitter feeding a 4 way splitter, where 4 are used on the 8 way and 2 on the 4 way. Is it worthwhile to pick up a 2 way to replace the 4 way and use that to replace the 8 way? All unused ports are terminated currently.


Terminations are merely sending the RF into a resistor so it doesn't reflect back as cause issues.
Skywalker lists their loss specs and for 1750 MHz [about the highest for SWM]:
2-way 4.8 dB
4-way 9.5 dB
8-way 14.0 dB

So two 8-ways = -28 dB without cable losses. 
This is the worst case and other frequencies would be less and even one splitter to the next might be less.
"A good rule of thumb" is to never use a splitter with more outputs than you need. Better to use a mix of 2 & 4 ways to meet your needs since every termination used is "wasting power" and a splitter with more outputs has more loss.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

DogLover said:


> I figured it wasn't ideal, but it's all he had, and sounded like all he had actually seen. With 103 signals going from 60's to 90's, I probably still will have signal longer in the rain than before. (Looks like I'll get to try that out Friday night.)
> 
> Next A/V project is to rearrange the family room. I'll probably wait until then to make changes, as I think that will eliminate the need for 1 of the splitters altogether.


First: it working now and that's good.
Second: it would be better to get away from 8-ways to 8-ways as I posted ^.
"The best use" of an 8-way is one that has all the receivers connected to it.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> I'm guessing that this means two are being fed from the first. This is way more loss than you need to have.
> I'd have them come back and use "smaller" splitters to gain resistance against rainfade.
> The SWM output and the receiver's input levels shouldn't have more than around 25 dB of attenuation and an 8-way to an 8-way eats all of this up and some more, so you've lost all your "system reserve" for weather.


Unfortunately, some out there still think that in order to have 5 to 8 TUNERs you need an 8 way splitter. This goes from installers, to stupidvisors to trainers (oxymoron).

Sometimes, you just can't fix stupid. :nono2:


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## DogLover (Mar 19, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> First: it working now and that's good.
> Second: it would be better to get away from 8-ways to 8-ways as I posted ^.
> "The best use" of an 8-way is one that has all the receivers connected to it.


Yeah, I may be put the non-green label 2 and 4 ways back on. I've got a busy few weeks, so I'll at least get to see how well (or poorly) this set up works.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

RobertE said:


> Unfortunately, some out there still think that in order to have 5 to 8 TUNERs you need an 8 way splitter. This goes from installers, to stupidvisors to trainers (oxymoron).
> 
> Sometimes, you just can't fix stupid. :nono2:


Yeah, I went through this with the trainer who came out here with the engineers a while back. He saw my Skywalkers and offered/wanted to swap them out for "DirecTV approved" ones, but only had 8-ways with him.
A five min discussion between me, the trainer, engineer and my skywalkers stayed for "a good reason" and the trainer hopefully learned something.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

DogLover said:


> Yeah, I may be put the non-green label 2 and 4 ways back on. I've got a busy few weeks, so I'll at least get to see how well (or poorly) this set up works.


FYI: the 90% readings are more quality than RF level.
As the signal at the LNB drops, the SWiM will add gain to keep the output @ -30 dBm. when the input drops below -45 dBm, then the SWiM is out of gain and the outputs starts dropping. The receiver wants -54 dBm, so the less loss between the SWiM and the receiver, the longer the receiver will have a usable input signal.
I would care more about this than whether my splitter had a green label [DECA approved] or white label [SWiM approved].


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## tsbrady1 (Jan 6, 2006)

DogLover said:


> I'm in Snellville and scheduled for this evening. (Twiddling my thumbs right now.) I'll let you know how it goes.


DogLover, how long did your install take? Did they have to replace your dish?


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## DogLover (Mar 19, 2007)

tsbrady1 said:


> DogLover, how long did your install take? Did they have to replace your dish?


The did replace the LNB with a SL3, but not the dish itself. He removed the old SWM-8, added the DECA modules to the non-24 boxes, then realigned the dish to get great signals on all satellites. It took about 2 hours, maybe a little longer.


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## tsbrady1 (Jan 6, 2006)

Thanks, hope mine goes as smoothly tomorrow!


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## DogLover (Mar 19, 2007)

Good Luck!


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