# lease don't rush to buy 622



## Creon007 (Mar 31, 2004)

Why you ask simply because 622 only outputs up to 1080i Knowing that 1080p is here now and will be bigger this year with more HDTV set, dvd, playstation3 and that MPEG4 with 1080p is the highest of high-definition signal formats with 1080X1920 It would only mean that 622 or even the 211 within year or two just like 811,942,921 would need to be replaced. Bottom line is DirectTv went the right way in saying they will be moving to a lease only program. Dish should follow suite.


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## Creon007 (Mar 31, 2004)

There are no 1080p signal sources yet—at least, none available to consumers, A lot of companies believe 1080p is the next big thing in HDTV


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

I wonder if most people can tell the difference between 1080i and 1080p.

Besides the fact that there is currently a big lack of material in 1080p one needs to consider that most of the broadcasters (and other program providers) need to make a lot of expensive upgrades to be able to provide 1080p. Most of the FOX and ABC stations are now doing 720p and a lot of them have plans to upgrade to 1080i this or next year. 1080p equipment won't even be available to them for several years. 

The "change" to 1080p is one thing that a person should consider when thinking about buying the new receivers but there are many other things that need to be considered when considering leasing verses buying.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

1080i is a valid output format for HD. I don't expect E* to change their hardware to output 1080p (assuming it would be a hardware upgrade).

I suggest leasing a ViP-622 because it is unlikely you will get a better deal. The only value in buying is if you get a trade in rebate from a retailer and you expect to resell the ViP-622.

JL


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## TheFuzz (Dec 26, 2005)

James Long said:


> 1080i is a valid output format for HD. I don't expect E* to change their hardware to output 1080p (assuming it would be a hardware upgrade).
> 
> I suggest leasing a ViP-622 because it is unlikely you will get a better deal. The only value in buying is if you get a trade in rebate from a retailer and you expect to resell the ViP-622.
> 
> JL


Well said. While 1080p displays will in fact become readily available in the upcoming year, including PDP displays, the content simply will not be there. Evan blu-ray and HD-DVD will not output 1080p, so there is no reason to believe sat companies will rush to use it. Also, don't forget the output is only as good as the input.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I forget where now... but I read somewhere an interesting article that spun 1080p as something that may never happen with broadcast TV. Program-creators/converters may use 1080p as a source capturing method because it easily downconverts to 1080i or 720p while capturing at the best possible current digital resolution... but that it isn't expected to be used in broadcast due to expense of equipment and lack of real need for the technology.

Most of our problems in seeing digital TV have to do with signal strength & multipath (for OTA)... then dealing with MPEG2/MPEG4 compression being lossy AND hardware in the receivers processing the data in a timely fashion without missing bits.

If all the other parts of the chain are improved in the next few years, no one would notice a change to 1080p vs 1080i I suspect... except those perhaps who are particularly subconsciously sensitive to the interlaced display mode.


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## Creon007 (Mar 31, 2004)

The reason to lease not buy 622 1- $649.00 miunus $100 trade in that some Retailers give for your 921,942 by the way most don't offer $100 credit anymore. 2- E*will lease 622 to you if you own 921,942 for $99($200 rebate) not bad but your leasing plus you already fork out Major Money for that MPEG2 receiver.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

I expect that the retailer trade in offers won't last long - especially after E* starts to refuse to activate 921s and 942s. Those that remain activated will retain value, but there is the prospect that once you deactivate it you will have a big paperweight.

Details HAVE NOT been announced. I wouldn't plan on doing anything if I had a 921 or 942 until details are announced, unless you have a friendly retailer cutting you a deal. But at this point there are no ViP-622s available to sell. Hard to believe any offer I see on the web when there is no stock. (If a retailer wants to post a picture of their stockpile I'll believe their offer.)

JL


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## Jon Spackman (Feb 7, 2005)

What are you talking about that HD DVD and Blu Ray are not 1080p capable? They sure as hell are!!!!


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## Moridin (Mar 22, 2005)

j5races said:


> What are you talking about that HD DVD and Blu Ray are not 1080p capable? They sure as hell are!!!!


For those seeking clarification on resolutions (native and output) on the next-gen formats:

http://www.audioholics.com/ces/CEStechnology/HDDVDCESinterview.php


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## Rogueone (Jan 29, 2004)

while 1080p would be nice for watching sports and such, it's not like there is any difference otherwise. in any given second of TV, 1080i and 1080p will display 30 frames, of which the human eye will process 30 frames. Unless there is fast action, and you have eyes sensitive enough to notice, or maybe have 2 sets side by side so you can "see" the differenence. the average watcher isn't going to know the difference. heck the average tv viewer isn't likely to know the difference in 720p and 1080i. We do, we're not normal  we're videophiles and techheads. People like my brother, my dad, my mom, my sister, etc., will care less. All they'll see is a prettier picture than normal TV used to give them  

Both 1080 formats put the exact same number of unique pixels on the screen every second, so it's not like discussing the differences in 720 and 1080. And considering the HD standard only includes 1080i and there doesn't seem to be plans for 1080p/60, at least not soon, does it really matter? Likely not as only people who are anal will care  yes , we are those who are anal. we are the same types of people who will upgrade a cpu from 3.8 to 4.0GHz because it's faster on some benchmark program. In reality, in use, there is no way to measure the difference, maybe it speeds up opening something by a few tenths of a second, but honestly, even though you know there is a difference, have you ever "seen" the difference? This is much the same. a few of us might notice, but if you don't tell anyone what they are seeing, they'll simply think it's wonderful regardless of 1080 i or p


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## LtMunst (Aug 24, 2005)

Rogueone said:


> Both 1080 formats put the exact same number of unique pixels on the screen every second, so it's not like discussing the differences in 720 and 1080.


The 1080i=540p clowns will be coming out of the woodwork soon to argue this.


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## Creon007 (Mar 31, 2004)

* 720p - 1280x720 progressive
* 1080i - 1920x1080 interlaced
* 1080p - 1920x1080 progressive

More Accurate - Listing the resolution and frame rate:

* 480i - The picture is 704x480 - (60/2 interlaced frames per second)
= 30 complete frames per second.

* 480p - The picture is 704x480 - 60 complete frames per second.

* 720p - The picture is 1280x720 - 60 complete frames per second.

* 1080i - The picture is 1920x1080 - (60/2 interlaced frames per second)
= 30 complete frames per second.

* 1080p - The picture is 1920x1080 - 60 complete frames per second.


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## BoisePaul (Apr 26, 2005)

Creon007 said:


> * 1080p - The picture is 1920x1080 - 60 complete frames per second.


From what I've read, there are no planned sources that will deliver 1080p/60. Even HD-DVD and BluRay are spec'd to produce 1080i/60 and 1080p/30. 1920x1080 progressive 60 fps is not listed. Going back to the original issue brought up by the thread, I can't see DBS delivering 1080p/60 any time soon even if there were other sources that employed that resolution/framerate. With the existing bandwidth constraints, how on earth would they be able to deliver twice as many pixels as 1080i/60 without applying excessive compression?


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## Moridin (Mar 22, 2005)

BoisePaul said:


> From what I've read, there are no planned sources that will deliver 1080p/60. Even HD-DVD and BluRay are spec'd to produce 1080i/60 and 1080p/30.


Follow the link I posted earlier. There are such devices "planned", but none announced yet due to 1080p/60 not yet being a part of the HDMI spec.


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## BoisePaul (Apr 26, 2005)

Moridin said:


> Follow the link I posted earlier. There are such devices "planned", but none announced yet due to 1080p/60 not yet being a part of the HDMI spec.


Fair enough...


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## Jim Parker (Aug 12, 2003)

Moridin said:


> http://www.audioholics.com/ces/CEStechnology/HDDVDCESinterview.php


Great site. Thanks!


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## unr1 (Jul 16, 2005)

Moridin said:


> For those seeking clarification on resolutions (native and output) on the next-gen formats:
> 
> http://www.audioholics.com/ces/CEStechnology/HDDVDCESinterview.php


Good read. Thanks

:icon_cool


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## tonyp56 (Apr 26, 2004)

so when is 20000P coming? 

Wow, the good old days of analog TV , back when it was all about how fuzzy the picture was.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

LtMunst said:


> The 1080i=540p clowns will be coming out of the woodwork soon to argue this.


Shhhhh! Don't wake them up!


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## tomcrown1 (Jan 16, 2006)

To get back to the title of this thread. The real reason to lease virus buying, is that in one to two years Dish will release another new DVR receiver. By leasing you wont be out alot of up front cost, thus it will making the switch to the next greatest box easier.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

The ViP622 isn't the last DVR, but it is not likely to be obsolete in two years.

JL


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## Ghostwriter (Oct 11, 2005)

Not obsolete but very outdated IMO. buy them we will have HDrives with at least 3 or 4 terrabytes!


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

James Long said:


> The ViP622 isn't the last DVR, but it is not likely to be obsolete in two years.
> 
> JL


Everything in technology is "old" by the time it hits the shelves... Most companies are a year or two along the way to their next releases by the time one thing comes out... so I've just become accustomed to that. I buy stuff that I like and can afford, and I don't go shopping for that kind of product anytime soon afterwards so I don't make myself wish I'd waited. That leads to all kinds of depression!

I skipped all the HD DVRs so far... so if I got a ViP622 and it was obsolete in a year, I'd still be mostly ok because I skipped a few generations... Since I can't afford to buy new stuff every year anyway, it being obsolete doesn't make or break my purchas plans!

Now, if I knew for certain that 6 months down the road there might be a ViP633 that had twice the HD size for recording... that could tempt me to wait... but that's the kind of info that doesn't leak out often because they know us consumers will wait for that kind of thing.


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