# Piece of [junk]



## wbmccarty (Apr 28, 2006)

It's official. My brand-new replacement model 300 is no better--perhaps worse --than my evil model 500 that I just returned. I prepped the new model 300 with a download of 10FA and a complete reformat. In other words, I did everything reasonable and then some.

Likewise, before I left for the evening, I verified that the season opener of 24 was set to record. When I returned, the program was in progress. But, the tuner was tuned to another channel, was not recording, and had not recorded 24.

The useless History entry says "not recorded." But, when I drill down, it says that "all episodes are set to record." History doesn't show any program recorded in the place of 24. The MyVOD likewise shows nothing recorded in the 24 time slot.

So, this stinking piece of junk just sat there doing nothing. GRRRR !!!!!!!    

What really irritates me is that I had the presence of mind to check, double check, and triple check that 24 was set to record. All checks were okay. And, still it didn't record. 

What is a customer supposed to do???    

After I view the episode on my wife's Tivo, I plan to give some unfortunate CSR a tongue lashing he or she will remember for months to come. Can anyone suggest a more useful response? 

Thank God I was given the R15 as a gift. If I had made the purchase decision, my guilt would be overwhelming.... 

Cheers,


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## tony4d (Sep 5, 2006)

The R15 is not reliable.
The HR20 is not reliable.
DirecTV is not reliable.

Not much more to say.


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## wbmccarty (Apr 28, 2006)

I think I understand the nature of the defect. I'll hint that it has to do with programs appearing on multiple channels.  

I'm tired of doing DTV's work for them for nothing. :grrr: And, getting nothing but smarmy abuse in return. :flaiming I will sell the specification of the defect to DTV for the sum of US $10, cash. I will not accept commercial paper or credit of any kind. :nono: 

I will contribute US $100 toward the first bona fide class-action lawsuit related to the R15 naming DTV as defendant. This offer is not contingent upon DTV's acceptance of my offer, above, or any other offer. !danger: 

:raspberry :raspberry :raspberry


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## Greyshadow2007 (Aug 23, 2006)

wbmccarty said:


> It's official. My brand-new replacement model 300 is no better--perhaps worse --than my evil model 500 that I just returned. I prepped the new model 300 with a download of 10FA and a complete reformat. In other words, I did everything reasonable and then some.
> 
> Likewise, before I left for the evening, I verified that the season opener of 24 was set to record. When I returned, the program was in progress. But, the tuner was tuned to another channel, was not recording, and had not recorded 24.
> 
> ...


One question. If the r15 you got had 10FA, then you got an r15-500 instead of an r15-300. Are you sure you have an r15-300? Just a question


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## wbmccarty (Apr 28, 2006)

Sorry, the -500 got 10FA just before I boxed it. The -300 got the equivalent up-to-date release for that model. I'd check the release number but if I went anywhere near the remote or the R15 right now, I'd find it difficult not to express my feelings physically....


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

Swapping out boxes does nothing except waste time. The problem IS the software.


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## mphare (Nov 15, 2005)

If Comcast can download TiVo software to their Motorola boxes... I wonder if DTV could do the same and download TiVo software to the R15.

Giving the CSR a _tongue lashing_ is not going to do anything positive for either of you.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

wbmccarty said:


> I think I understand the nature of the defect. I'll hint that it has to do with programs appearing on multiple channels.


So I'm guessing that you scheduled the recording by using the search/autorecord function, instead of highlighting it in the guide on the proper local channel for your location? And that the issue was that (as we already very well know) the search will return results for the DNS feeds that you don't have?

I would sum this up quite succinctly as ... OPERATOR ERROR 

Carl


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

mphare said:


> I wonder if DTV could do the same and download TiVo software to the R15.


From what I've been reading on here, sounds like the Tivo software is having issues too. I'm glad I still have my trusty MS UTV.


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## cbeckner80 (Apr 19, 2006)

mphare said:


> If Comcast can download TiVo software to their Motorola boxes... I wonder if DTV could do the same and download TiVo software to the R15.
> 
> Giving the CSR a _tongue lashing_ is not going to do anything positive for either of you.


Unfortunatly that's true. But how does he (or any of us) get to the people that deserve the tongue lashing.


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## rlambert7 (Feb 7, 2006)

wbmccarty said:


> ...After I view the episode on my wife's Tivo, I plan to give some unfortunate CSR a tongue lashing he or she will remember for months to come. Can anyone suggest a more useful response?...


Since you at least have it to view somewhere you ought to watch it before making any responses. It is not very likely that tongue lashing a CSR will get you what you are ultimately seeking.

Another suggestion (if you have two* lines into your R15). Next time you want to record a "must have" on your R15 try setting up a "manual record" in addition to however you whatever method you typically use to record it. I know I've seen postings on this forum that say such cannot be done, but I've done it. (Try it on something that doesn't matter , first)

*if you have only one line, try a manual record _instead_ of your typical method.


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## evcomp (Nov 19, 2006)

I have to ask, how many of us would still have a job if we offered the same excuses on a daily, weekly, or monthly basis as we have heard from DTV? I have seen some defend DTV's position that we should give them a chance to fix, to roll it out to everyone, etc. Am I the only one who thinks that we should hold this multi-billion dollar company responsible for fixing the issues? Why does it take so long to roll something out, they have the ability to change or upgrade service instantly while you are on the phone? Seems to me that there should be a process to send upgrades upon request or better yet, after they finish a QA process, to mass upgrade the country. I am done giving DTV the benefit of the doubt. They collect a hefty fee from me every month for my "leased" equipment and "programming".


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## bearymore (Sep 1, 2006)

carl6 said:


> So I'm guessing that you scheduled the recording by using the search/autorecord function, instead of highlighting it in the guide on the proper local channel for your location? And that the issue was that (as we already very well know) the search will return results for the DNS feeds that you don't have?
> 
> I would sum this up quite succinctly as ... OPERATOR ERROR
> 
> Carl


No, poorly conceived software. Autorecord that attempts to record from channels the user doesn't receive is useless. Tivo's wishlist function doesn't do this. Why should the DVR+? Any reasonable person would expect an autorecord function to restrict itself to channels received.

Perhaps the CSRs should be required to inform users of this little "feature" when they recommend the machine. I know when I got stuck with this POS, the CSR told me specifically that it did Wishlists "just like Tivo". That's false advertising.


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## mphare (Nov 15, 2005)

evcomp said:


> I have to ask, how many of us would still have a job if we offered the same excuses on a daily, weekly, or monthly basis as we have heard from DTV? I have seen some defend DTV's position that we should give them a chance to fix, to roll it out to everyone, etc. Am I the only one who thinks that we should hold this multi-billion dollar company responsible for fixing the issues? Why does it take so long to roll something out, they have the ability to change or upgrade service instantly while you are on the phone? Seems to me that there should be a process to send upgrades upon request or better yet, after they finish a QA process, to mass upgrade the country. I am done giving DTV the benefit of the doubt. They collect a hefty fee from me every month for my "leased" equipment and "programming".


It's not the CSRs fault (in all cases) They work from a script. Some may have more experience than other and may be able to work off the script better. But they only know what they are told.

A CSR is more likely to loose a job if they provide information they were told not to provide or if they lie about things. Not providing correct information is not always a lie.

Nobody offers SW upgrades upon request. Can you imagine the technical support nightmare?

That said, you can 'fire' DTV any time you want, I bet even if you are under a commitment that if you are having problems you can get out from under it.


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## rlambert7 (Feb 7, 2006)

bearymore said:


> ...Autorecord that attempts to record from channels the user doesn't receive is useless...


Well, "useless" at the very least, more likely "Annoying", and possibly "detrimental".

I have one autorecord, out of the 19 items in my "Prioritizer" list, setup for "Swimming". A couple of times it has scheduled, but eventually failed (and correctly/inevitably so), to record a "swimming" event on a channel I don't receive. But, here's a pondering. Suppose, today, I find two shows in The Guide I want to record on Tuesday, 1/23/07, from 8pm to 9pm. So, I press the "R" button to do a "record once" for those shows. Now, lets say that tomorrow my "Swimming" autorecord finds something on a channel I don't receive, on that same Tuesday, and at the same time as the two shows I already setup to "record once". What will happen? Will the autorecord be unable to shedule a recording, or will the autorecord schedule a recording (which will, of course, eventually fail), and "bump off" one of the two shows I previously had scheduled to record? If it's the first scenario, I guess that's "useless", if it's the second scenario, I would consider that to be "detrimental".

Now, I suppose if I were diligent, and monitored my "ToDo" list frequently, I might discover if the R15 was going to behave as described in the "bad scenario" above, and I could take counter measures, but that would be "annoying" to have to do that.


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

I would sure hope that "one off" recordings have a higher priority than everything in the prioritizer (including Series Links and autorecord searches), regardless of the channels I receive issue. That is, the non-SL recording you setup should not be bumped by anything, other than any new SL or recordings you explicitly setup (and you'd be told about that at the time).


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## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

mphare said:


> It's not the CSRs fault (in all cases) They work from a script. Some may have more experience than other and may be able to work off the script better. But they only know what they are told.
> 
> A CSR is more likely to loose a job if they provide information they were told not to provide or if they lie about things. Not providing correct information is not always a lie.


From my perspective, I don't differentiate between DTV and the CSR who represents DTV. When I pick up the phone and call, I am calling DTV, not Jim or Mary.

If the CSR gives me wrong information because they are working from a script, that is DTV's fault. If the CSR gives me wrong information because they have not been well trained, that is DTV's fault. If a CSR gives me wrong information because they are told not to tell the correct information, that is DTV's fault. From my perspective, DTV is giving me wrong information, and that is DTV's fault.


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## bearymore (Sep 1, 2006)

walters said:


> I would sure hope that "one off" recordings have a higher priority than everything in the prioritizer (including Series Links and autorecord searches), regardless of the channels I receive issue. That is, the non-SL recording you setup should not be bumped by anything, other than any new SL or recordings you explicitly setup (and you'd be told about that at the time).


This highlights another R-15 "feature". On my Tivo, if I schedule a single program and already have an autorecord, it will ask me if I want to override the autorecord. Likewise, if I schedule an autorecord and already have a single program specified, it will ask me if I want to override the previously scheduled program. Since the to-do list on Tivo is unlimited, the conflict can't come up (i.e., if a show isn't in the guide data, you can't schedule it to record individually and if you try to schedule a show that appears at the time of an autorecord, which will also be in the guide data, it will already be in the to-do list and you will be asked to override.) Since the R15's to-do list is limited to 100 items it could happen that the autorecord might not be in the to-do list when you schedule an individual show or vice-versa. So something unpredictable will happen.

By the way, I didn't mean to say that the whole machine was made useless by the autorecord issue -- only autorecords. My beef is that I (and others) was told by the CSR that it "works just like Tivo." That is patently untrue.


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## wbmccarty (Apr 28, 2006)

carl6 said:


> So I'm guessing that you scheduled the recording by using the search/autorecord function, instead of highlighting it in the guide on the proper local channel for your location? And that the issue was that (as we already very well know) the search will return results for the DNS feeds that you don't have?
> 
> I would sum this up quite succinctly as ... OPERATOR ERROR
> 
> Carl


Nice try, but no. I get all three channel involved in this fiasco (11, 388, 389). Not onlhy that, I real-time verified reception on all three channels during the last few minutes of the recorded program.

So, the putative "operator error" relates to the diagnostician, not the user.   Frankly, you presume too much.

But, I wouldn't count the suggested scenario as an "operator error." That's merely an operator failure to apply a workaround for an egregious defect. Let's not shift the blame even where workaounds exist.


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## wbmccarty (Apr 28, 2006)

cbeckner80 said:


> Unfortunatly that's true. But how does he (or any of us) get to the people that deserve the tongue lashing.


CSR turnover due to frequent customer upset.


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## wbmccarty (Apr 28, 2006)

wbmccarty said:


> Sorry, the -500 got 10FA just before I boxed it. The -300 got the equivalent up-to-date release for that model. I'd check the release number but if I went anywhere near the remote or the R15 right now, I'd find it difficult not to express my feelings physically....


Doh! Obviously, I'm on a roll: I didn't get even that right. The -300 _did_ update when I installed it. But, now that I check, I find that it updated only to the not-quite-up-to-date 104B.

But, as it happens, I take that as good news. I now once again have some small hope that the forthcoming release for the -300 will bring satisfactory performance. As I recall, at least one member has reported that result.

I admit that I'm really, really skeptical. I'm even more skeptical than I was last April when I insisted the improvement was all but impossible. But, call the odds of improvement "epsilon" and I'll stipulate that the value of epsilon is non-zero. I may insist that epsilon approaches zero to within any given tolerance, however small the tolerance. But, it still isn't zero.

So, neglecting the possible quantum nature of reality, I can't exclude the possibility that the R15 will some day work better than it does now. I'm just not sure in which multiverse that outcome actually obtains. Did anyone see a cosmological street sign back there anywhere????

Dang: I _gotta_ get a working DVR. This Carl Sagan Channel stuff is coming out my ears....

P.S. Shades of Rod Serling.... I just checked the unit and it had done an auto update to 106C overnight. I've now done a prophylactic RBR and am--once again--hoping for the best. However, I feel that usage does considerable violence to the meaning of the word "hope."

Cheers,


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

wbmccarty said:


> ...and I'll stipulate that the value of epsilon is non-zero...


But are you dealing with real or imaginary numbers

Carl


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## wbmccarty (Apr 28, 2006)

carl6 said:


> But are you dealing with real or imaginary numbers
> 
> Carl


Yes, the alternative is too complex for me


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## evcomp (Nov 19, 2006)

> That said, you can 'fire' DTV any time you want, I bet even if you are under a commitment that if you are having problems you can get out from under it.


Sorry, nothing doing. I have called them 4 times about the issue of the commitment and they are now telling me that the commitment is for programming, not the equipment. Get this, they also said that it was improbable that two receivers would fail and that it must be an issue with my lines. Then she offered to send out a DTV technician to inspect. Are you kidding me!

I have decided that I must have been a real jerk in another life and this is my punishment.


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## wbmccarty (Apr 28, 2006)

evcomp said:


> I have called them 4 times about the issue of the commitment and they are now telling me that the commitment is for programming, not the equipment. Get this, they also said that it was improbable that two receivers would fail and that it must be an issue with my lines. Then she offered to send out a DTV technician to inspect. Are you kidding me!


Ditto and therefore confirmed. :righton:

In my case, they _insisted_ on sending out a tech and refused to replace the DVR until I complied, despite my other two DVRs (not R15s) and receiver working just fine, and no problems using legacy equipment on the feed used by the R15. This isn't technical expertise, it's obstructive bureaucracy or deliberate obstinacy, take your pick. :bang



evcomp said:


> I have decided that I must have been a real jerk in another life and this is my punishment.


I have decided that I am at heart a really fine person and the Force wants to help me express that nature more consistently. Tribulation, especially including technological frustration, is apparently the tool of choice. [The present context leads me to infer the presence of a very fine pony and I'm digging assiduously to locate it.] :dance01:

Cheers,


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