# Will DirecTV fix the problems with the HR2x receivers?



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Do you think that DirecTV will ever 'fix' the problems with the HR2x receivers? Common problem and complaints include:

* Generally slow - HR20 may be quicker but many still think it is slow.
* Jumping forward or back for no reason.
* Can't enter channels by number - ie entering 321 often is received as 3 or 32.

Since the last update complaints about troubles have either returned or new problems have appeared:

* Slower than before.
* Have to reboot because response gets too slow to function.
* Missed recordings that say they will be recorded 'Yesterday'.
* Available space disappearing to the point everything not set to 'keep' is lost.
* Audio/Video breakups.
* Hard drive noise - thrashing.

These problems are not being reported by just a few complainers. There are a few people that for some reason think all these troubles are user error or just people that are never happy.... Looking through the first few pages of posts here it is obvious that is just not the case. Lots of people are having trouble.

Question here is will they EVER fix the problems? What do you think?


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## mdavej (Jan 31, 2007)

My view is the more features and band-aids they add will continue to introduce bugs and slowdowns. They only solution, without starting from scratch, with more efficient code to begin with, is faster hardware, just like in the PC world. That will only come with future models. So I'm afraid we're stuck with what we've got on existing hardware.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> Question here is will they EVER fix the problems? What do you think?


Yes.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

This has to rank as one of the lamest polls ever seen on DBSTalk.

Every DVR on the planet has flaws....of course people work on correcting them....


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## Scott Kocourek (Jun 13, 2009)

Seems to me that there are way more updates to my HR boxes then my SD Tivo boxes ever got. This must mean there is someone working on updates all of the time. Sometimes we get new features and sometimes they try to fix problems, but it always seems like we get something.

Scott


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## barryb (Aug 27, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> This has to rank as one of the lamest polls ever seen on DBSTalk.


I mildly disagree. I know that many have had numerous issues with hardware... but I feel VERY confident that DirecTV is working hard behind the curtains to fix what can be fixed.

I love everything about DirecTV, and being a decade-long customer testifies this. Over the years things have continued to improve and I know it will only get better.

I really have nothing, and I do mean _nothing_ to complain about. In fact, I expect nothing less than a banner year for DirecTV in 2010.

I self-tune my dish to insure I get the best signal possible. I check my connections to make sure things are tight on an annual basis. I live in such a rural area that satellite TV is my only choice... and even then I know I have a choice. DirecTV gives me everything I would expect with a TV picture being beamed off a bird in the sky (and more).

I feel that anyone can voice their opinions on a service they pay for... but by all means everyone should be making sure their system is in the best possible condition before getting mad/upset and vocal. I currently have 4 units stationary (home), and two mobile (RV). I never miss recordings... and all my DVRs work exactly as expected. Its been this way for a very long time now.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> This has to rank as one of the lamest polls ever seen on DBSTalk.
> 
> Every DVR on the planet has flaws....of course people work on correcting them....


I was wondering how long it would take you to come to DirecTV's defense!

Are you also still claiming the last update made the boxes quicker?:lol:



hdtvfan0001 said:


> Thats totally contrary to what *most* posters are saying - speed is improved & less problems since 34C went out.


http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=166472

I guess you are one of the 3 that claim to have better speed since the update?

All smack-downs aside - I have had an HR for a little over a year now. I figure if they haven't fixed the major issues yet they probably won't or can't. I'm not sure why but many of the problems have been around from the begining. Of course they have fixed a boat load of problems but the remaining problems - especially the speed and the inability to use the remote don't seem to change. If they are working on these why has it been years?

I hope they fix the major ones at least but it is looking pretty grim.


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## LarryFlowers (Sep 22, 2006)

Not sure what the point of this poll is.

The thing you must remember is that the majority of people with DirecTV use these units day to day and rarely have any difficulties that they don't readily adapt to.

This represents the problem here... people who are members here are generally more involved, more technically oriented and have certain expectations of the equipment and how it should perform.

A good example of this is my brother... the antithesis of me... not a geek bone in his body. He has DirecTV HD and uses his DVR every day. I always ask him about how the unit is... is he having any problems? Is he unhappy with it? 

His answer is always the same, no problems, works great. He wishes he could store more programming cause he has a hard time keeping up. I mention using an external drive and his eyes glaze over.

My brother however is typical of most of the 18 million people using DirecTV. They use the units, they record and watch their programs. They love their HD picture. They are used to an occaissional rain fade. The speed of the guide menu and of changing channels is what it is. They adapt and are used to their units.

Unless you go to the trouble of pointing out issues that routinely come up on this forum, they are blissfully unaware.

So, your original question, will DirecTV ever fix the problems with the HR units? Yes and no. Are my HR units better today than they were when I first got them? Yes and No... I participate in the CE program and sometimes when they introduce a new feature, the unit initially will perform more poorly then before. That's the process though and as testing of the new feature continues through the CE process, it steadily improves.

My HR boxes are overall better than they were originally. They do more and do it better. Are they perfect.. no, but they get better all the time.

I can't remember when I last failed to get a recording or it recorded a blank screen. It functions on the network better than ever. Does my day to day usage of the unit suffer in any way.. no. Are some things about the box annoying... yes.. and speed would be the top issue.

Is the the basic chip controlling the HR boxes perhaps a little overwhelmed.. is it just because it is an older (technological time) chip? Will the introduction of new model with a newer chip make all the problems go away? Perhaps.

The real point though is that for the majority of DirecTV users, there isn't a problem. They use it as it is and really don't know any different because they adapt to what they have.

We geeks, technophiles, nerds, etc., have different expectations and see it in a different light.

Instead of creating a poll that asks a question that no one around here can answer.. join the CE program, test the software weekly, find the problems and post them. Not every problem we find gets fixed in the CE program, but some do and at least we get to be part of the solution.


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## stlmike (Aug 24, 2007)

I do think they are "working on it", but I too am confused why, after the last update, basic functions like entering channel number, going to list, etc, are so much worse. It seems any change to the box impacts it in many seemingly unrelated areas, including basic functions. So it would appear that any software update has the potential to mess things up like this...


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

LarryFlowers said:


> Not sure what the point of this poll is.
> 
> The thing you must remember is that the majority of people with DirecTV use these units day to day and rarely have any difficulties that they don't readily adapt to.


Very well put Larry, and I think you likely correct on most people adapt to what they have. That is another reason I don't have much hope that they will make any major improvements in my biggest issue - speed.

I have, on occasion, participated in the CE program but it gets me in even more trouble with the family! They still are not happy that I switched from the Dish Network DVRs to the HRs. The only thing saving me is my better half is a Chargers fan and we had to switch for Sunday Ticket!

It's refreshing to read posts like yours - articulate and not beating anyone over the head! Many others, including myself, spend too much time trying go after someone with differing opinions...


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## KCCardsfan (Apr 18, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> This has to rank as one of the lamest polls ever seen on DBSTalk.
> 
> Every DVR on the planet has flaws....of course people work on correcting them....


I agree! I've had my Tivo R10 now for 5+ years, it's much, much slower and more frustrating to use. I'm perfectly happy with my HR20-700! So I guess I need to start a Poll: After 5 years, will the Tivo R10 problems ever be fixed????


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> This has to rank as one of the lamest polls ever seen on DBSTalk.


Regardless of whether or not we agree with the OP, someone who has expended the effort to construct a poll like this obviously cares for the product he's using. He certainly should not be belittled for his efforts, or his desire to improve the product.


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## davring (Jan 13, 2007)

LarryFlowers said:


> Not sure what the point of this poll is.
> 
> The thing you must remember is that the majority of people with DirecTV use these units day to day and rarely have any difficulties that they don't readily adapt to.
> 
> ...


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## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

LarryFlowers said:


> The thing you must remember is that the majority of people with DirecTV use these units day to day and rarely have any difficulties that they don't readily adapt to.
> 
> This represents the problem here... people who are members here are generally more involved, more technically oriented and have certain expectations of the equipment and how it should perform.
> 
> ...


As a counter I can offer my brother-in-law. Same exact scenario as you have listed with your bother, but exactly the opposite in experience. He is ready to switch to something else as soon as their contract is over because of his DVR being "slower than his work computer" (guide and channel surfing on an HR-21) and being tired of the "goat boy" effect (his term for the brrriiipp issues). He has no interest in their causes, nor desire to understand them. He only knows he does not like them, several calls to directv have done nothing to resolve them, and he is willing to change carriers to get rid of them.


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## MIKE0616 (Dec 13, 2006)

scottandregan said:


> Seems to me that there are way more updates to my HR boxes then my SD Tivo boxes ever got. This must mean there is someone working on updates all of the time. Sometimes we get new features and sometimes they try to fix problems, but it always seems like we get something.
> 
> Scott


And maybe that indicates that D* is introducing more bugs into their software that they keep trying to fix, but seem to fall short of?


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Larry said it very well.

The only minor irritation I have is speed, but the rest of the family loves the HR2x platform with no problem. 

While I'm using a stop-watch and downloading CE's, they're just watching TV with no problem and no complaints what-so-ever.


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## barryb (Aug 27, 2007)

MIKE0616 said:


> And maybe that indicates that D* is introducing more bugs into their software that they keep trying to fix, but seem to fall short of?


That would be highly unlikely.


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## barryb (Aug 27, 2007)

LarryFlowers said:


> My HR boxes are overall better than they were originally. They do more and do it better. Are they perfect.. no, but they get better all the time.


I feel this is the most important point you made in your above post Larry, and I stand with you on this one.


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## Movieman (May 9, 2009)

Mike,

You are assuming with this post that Directv is not constantly working on issues. If they werent there would be no need for firmware updates. There is constant testing of firmware to make the STB's better. And even though we are not considered the everyday users Directv does also value us as consumers if not they wouldnt bother to read this site and get feedback on what we are saying.

The receivers will never be perfect but they are always looking for new ways to make it better. But I will say that my HR2x's are working very well. Cant complain but it doesnt mean they cant be better.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Steve said:


> Regardless of whether or not we agree with the OP, someone who has expended the effort to construct a poll like this obviously cares for the product he's using. He certainly should be belittled for his efforts, or his desire to improve the product.


You may have missed MY point.

One of these rant threads starts from the same crop of posters....rants continue...then the thread gets shut down. Cronic complainers just go through the same cycle over and over at nauseum.

The premise that any company....forget who for the moment....would not want to aggressive resolve real problems is just ludicrous.

This is episode 9,772. :barf:


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## FrostyMelon (Dec 22, 2007)

Mike Greer said:


> Do you think that DirecTV will ever 'fix' the problems with the HR2x receivers? Common problem and complaints include:
> 
> * Generally slow - HR20 may be quicker but many still think it is slow.
> * Can't enter channels by number - ie entering 321 often is received as 3 or 32.
> ...


Those are my four. I thought the entering channel thing was more of an issue with my remote, didn't realize it was something across the board.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Having had a DIRECTV HD DVR since September, 2006, I've seen improvement after improvement. I know that it's frustrating when it seems like every update creates some issues as it solves others... but if you look at it on balance I think it's easy to see that things have gotten steadily better.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> You may have missed MY point.
> 
> One of these rant threads starts from the same crop of posters....rants continue...then the thread gets shut down. Cronic complainers just go through the same cycle over and over at nauseum.
> 
> ...


DirecTV could stop production on episode 9773 if they could address the problems sometime soon!

It sounds like maybe you're saying the problems people complain about are not real?

I don't know your background or what your relationship is with DirecTV but you seem to be at the top of the list of people that say "the fix is coming soon". If would be great if you could tell us when at least the most annoying of the problems will be fixed.

I take it you are no longer of the opinion that my *****es about speed are "...totally contrary to what most posters are saying - speed is improved & less problems since 34C went out"? :bonk1:

I do bring these problems up a lot - I admit. I wish I had known about these problems before I went out and spent big bucks and got locked in for two years. If the posts here were around when I was looking into it I would have just kept Dish Network but added 1 HR2x with the family package and Sunday Ticket. Hopefully at least some people are now aware of the problems and will at least know what to expect if they make the switch to DirecTV.

On the other hand if DirecTV ever fixes the stuff I'll be the first to thank them and post about the big improvements they made. I just don't have much hope for that... But I can dream!


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Having had a DIRECTV HD DVR since September, 2006, I've seen improvement after improvement. I know that it's frustrating when it seems like every update creates some issues as it solves others... but if you look at it on balance I think it's easy to see that things have gotten steadily better.


I think things have gotten better since day 1 but some troubles seem to be stuck.... My HR22s are just as slow as the day they were installed over a year ago so from my vantage point the most annoying troubles are the same. Except the jump-to-the-end problem is much worse.

Maybe I should have worded it a little differently... I don't doubt that they have people working the HR receivers but do you think the speed issues can be fixed or is it a lost cause that we'll have to wait for a new receiver to get fix?


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Movieman said:


> Mike,
> 
> You are assuming with this post that Directv is not constantly working on issues. If they werent there would be no need for firmware updates. There is constant testing of firmware to make the STB's better. And even though we are not considered the everyday users Directv does also value us as consumers if not they wouldnt bother to read this site and get feedback on what we are saying.
> 
> The receivers will never be perfect but they are always looking for new ways to make it better. But I will say that my HR2x's are working very well. Cant complain but it doesnt mean they cant be better.


I think they do work on them - it just seems their focus is on adding features and not on fixing things like speed and other bugs still there years later.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I think there are some configurations that are going to continue to be issues. Mike, can I suggest that you disconnect your network and reboot, then leave the network disconnected for 6 hours... and see if the speed issues are so pronounced? 

If you have an AM21, I'd disconnect it at the same time (if you can do so without making things terrible for yourself.)

I know there are some cases where something else on the network is interacting with the DVR, and that's causing slowness on the DVR, similar to a denial-of-service condition. Also if there are a lot of errors in the OTA stream that can slow things down too, 

You don't want to blame the user, but the DVRs are at the point where they work really well in a lot of configurations, so you have to look at individual configurations to see why there are issues.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Stuart Sweet said:


> I think there are some configurations that are going to continue to be issues. Mike, can I suggest that you disconnect your network and reboot, then leave the network disconnected for 6 hours... and see if the speed issues are so pronounced?
> 
> If you have an AM21, I'd disconnect it at the same time (if you can do so without making things terrible for yourself.)
> 
> ...


Thanks but I don't have the network connected anymore... It did speed things up when I disconnected it but that was months ago. By 'speed things up' I mean it went back its normal slow speed. I don't have a AM21.

From the polls it looks like most people think at least the HR21/22/23 are slow.

I know 'you don't want to blame the user' - how can so many users have so many problems?

I even saw an ad last week from Dish Network about how their HD DVR is 'up to twice as fast' as the DirecTV HD DVRs - screen shots and all. I would personally say it is more than twice as fast!

I don't know how things are inside DirecTV but it feels like they are in denial.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Cronic complainers just go through the same cycle over and over at nauseum.


The same can be said for chronic fanboys.

Others who disagree have managed to respond in a similarly thoughtful manner to the OP's.


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## ajc68 (Jan 23, 2008)

I've only owned the HR20 series for the past three years and have never had these issues. Then I picked up an HR22 and it has the slowness issue with remote commands, often causing me to have to re-enter the channel number multiple times to get them to take. This is a very bad flaw...


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## MIAMI1683 (Jul 11, 2007)

Mike Greer said:


> Do you think that DirecTV will ever 'fix' the problems with the HR2x receivers? Common problem and complaints include:
> 
> * Generally slow - HR20 may be quicker but many still think it is slow.
> * Jumping forward or back for no reason.
> ...


 Sorry Mike but what issues. I hear the complaints but have 4 Hrxx's units all networked and all damn near perfect. They don't miss recordings they do playback what I want when I want. I hear the "bounce" from the remote can be a PITA but not worth a poll.

I have also been a Directv sub for what seems to be forever. 9 years I think, When I first got the Hrxx I wanted my Tivo back. Now I have all I want including DLB.So figure out something else to complain about for me/us. I know a few of us are getting tired of threads like this :nono2:


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## MIAMI1683 (Jul 11, 2007)

ajc68 said:


> I've only owned the HR20 series for the past three years and have never had these issues. Then I picked up an HR22 and it has the slowness issue with remote commands, often causing me to have to re-enter the channel number multiple times to get them to take. This is a very bad flaw...


 I agree the HR22 is "slower" than my Hr20 or 21 but I like the HDD size in my two


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

MIKE0616 said:


> And maybe that indicates that D* is introducing more bugs into their software that they keep trying to fix, but seem to fall short of?


It's certainly possible, but generally speaking there is a net improvement between one NR and the next .. This means that overall a new NR should be as good as or better than the previous. This seems to be the case for the most part.

Now, is it a "good enough" improvement? That seems to be what the debate is really about.


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## Scott Kocourek (Jun 13, 2009)

MIKE0616 said:


> And maybe that indicates that D* is introducing more bugs into their software that they keep trying to fix, but seem to fall short of?




I actually like all of my HR boxes, they could be faster (sometimes) and they occasionally have problems registering keystrokes on the remote but all in all they do what I want them to. Record programs and play them back when I want them to, now we have DP and TV apps, it just makes it even better to watch tv. Now all I need is someone to teach me how to use media share and I will be set.

I would not say the programmers fall short or are not capable, my receiver used to reset every other time I turned on my tv, after one of the new releases (I do not remember which one.) it hasn't happened since. Will I live with a small problem now or a little lack of speed instead of my receiver resetting everyday? Absolutley! I believe soon enough they will address the next issue. I am ust happy they have not given up and said That's it this is the best we can do.

Scott


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

MIAMI1683 said:


> Sorry Mike but what issues. I hear the complaints but have 4 Hrxx's units all networked and all damn near perfect. They don't miss recordings they do playback what I want when I want. I hear the "bounce" from the remote can be a PITA but not worth a poll.
> 
> I have also been a Directv sub for what seems to be forever. 9 years I think, When I first got the Hrxx I wanted my Tivo back. Now I have all I want including DLB.So figure out something else to complain about for me/us. I know a few of us are getting tired of threads like this :nono2:


I'm glad you're happy but the majority of users seem to feel speed is a problem. Most people also apparently have the problems with entering channels by number.

I really feel for the those who have lost all their recordings in the last few weeks. That is about the worst thing that can happen!


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## KoRn (Oct 21, 2008)

I agree. If they could get rid of the super slowness and the farting. I would be extremely happy. Those are my 2 main complaints.



Stuart Sweet said:


> Having had a DIRECTV HD DVR since September, 2006, I've seen improvement after improvement. I know that it's frustrating when it seems like every update creates some issues as it solves others... but if you look at it on balance I think it's easy to see that things have gotten steadily better.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Mike Greer said:


> I'm glad you're happy but the majority of users seem to feel speed is a problem.


A classic example of wild claims being repeated over and over, just to make one person's view of things seem justified. Wrong.

I'd love to see YOUR evidence of the majority of owner's user experience on ANYTHING. Simply saying it doesn't make it real (including endlessly in various threads).

*Yes* - every HD DVR on the market has "issues" of one sort or another.

They all also have been many positives and improvements.

It would seem mighty foolish of ANY provider to avoid addressing any substantiated "issues" with their equipment. There is no reason to believe, not any evidence to support that DirecTV is ignoring nor failing to attempt to address known issues. The same could be said for Dish, et al.

In fact, there is plenty of evidence to support just the opposite.

It would indeed be great for everyone to be 100% satisfied with their viewing experience and equipment use - hope that happens for everyone. Personally, I believe that not matter how well things are done, there will always be those who are never satisfied.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> A classic example of wild claims being repeated over and over, just to make one person's view of things seem justified. Wrong.


I was referring to recent polls that users claimed they are slow.

Where do you get your facts? Like how the last update was speeding things up? Pot calling the kettle black comes to mind. At least I was going by poll numbers. Do you have anything to base your claims on? If you read the last few weeks of posts here things didn't work out so great on the last update. Yea for being able to buffer two channels - anything else positive there?

Of course every DVR on the market has some issue or another - I never claimed they didn't. It seems to me that the HRs are just as slow as they were a year ago when I started. You still can't change channels by entering the numbers reliably. The jump-to-the-end problem is worse since the update... Please, with all your inside information, tell us they are working on these and when they will be fixed.

As far as positives go - I'm sure there have been some - two buffers comes to mind - maybe others.... But not being able to key in channel numbers seems to me to be a very basic task for a 3 year old DVR. Maybe they should work on that one?

I agree it would be mighty foolish of ANY provider to avoid addressing any substantiated "issues" with their equipment. I just wish DirecTV would do it sooner rather than later.

We'll never get to the point in anything where 100% are satisfied. That's just the way it works.

I will - even though I'm sure you don't believe it - be singing the praises of DirecTV if/when they can make the HRs perform even close to the speed of Dish Network DVRs and when trick plays and channel entries actually work 100% of the time. Hopefully you'll get to see that happen sooner rather than later.

Looking forward to eating my words....


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## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

Mike --

Don't let the fanboys get you down. 

I think the speed polls were some of the most useful posts to the board in recent memory. They discovered valuable information regarding the relative performance of these units. Anyone truly interested in improving this product would welcome those kinds of polls (and the honest feedback from a cross section of users they represent).

The CE program must not be "all that" if the NR software I have been using is the result of the CE design and quality control process. I have worked in organizations where everyone drank the cool aid and told people up the chain of command only what they wanted to hear. In the long run, it doesn't work out so well.

For Example - I was watching the Patriots/Broncos game in Double Play, and it dumped the buffer about 45 minutes after the game transmission ended, causing me to miss the end of the game and the OT. So much for Double Play being a big improvement for the HR2x. 

I believe (but of course have no way to know) that we will see a more powerful HR series sometime in the near future. I believe those of us who currently have HR2x boxes are running software that requires (and anticipates) more memory and more processor power in order to to run "snappily," and IMHO that is the most likely solution to the sluggish performance of the current software.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Mike Greer said:


> Looking forward to eating my words....


Bring a big plate.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

Hey...DirecTV released an NR that didn't require an immediate emergency patch like so many others in the past...things are improving.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Nicholsen said:


> Mike --
> 
> Don't let the fanboys get you down.
> 
> ...


Thanks but they weren't my polls - but you're right they show exactly what DirecTV needs to know!


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> This has to rank as one of the lamest polls ever seen on DBSTalk.


I completely disagree - I've seen much worse. The poll is missing some options and thus the results will be meaningless, as many forum poll results are, but I think it's occasionally good to take the temperature of the forum members to see what THEY think about the service they are getting, and this forum will surely invite some vigorous discussion and maybe even change some attitudes.


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

As to the primary question, will DIRECTV fix the problems with the HR2x receivers, the answer is YES. The question is not in the poll without qualifiers, or I would have voted, so I have abstained from the poll.

I've seen dramatic improvements in the performance and feature set the HR2x software and have no complaints about the speed of those improvements. Would I prefer everything to be fixed immediately? Well, of course, but I also don't want the boxes to be "just" a DVR. I like the new features we've been given and want to see them continue, so I am all in favor of two sets of development: improve performance and introduce new features.

I have multiple HR2x DVRs and they meet my minimum needs of recording all programs that are scheduled to record, and they let me flawlessly use trickplay during playback. I can search the guide and use advanced searches. The guide could be faster and the searches could be more robust, but I can still do what I need. 

That being said, I have confidence that for the problems reported that DIRECTV is working on fixes.


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

Drew2k said:


> I completely disagree - I've seen much worse. The poll is missing some options and thus the results will be meaningless, as many forum poll results are, but I think it's occasionally good to take the temperature of the forum members to see what THEY think about the service they are getting, and this forum will surely invite some vigorous discussion and maybe even change some attitudes.


 yep.. missing the "it does everything I need it to" option..


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## TimoHT (Oct 6, 2008)

Doug Brott said:


> It's certainly possible, but generally speaking there is a net improvement between one NR and the next .. This means that overall a new NR should be as good as or better than the previous. This seems to be the case for the most part.
> 
> Now, is it a "good enough" improvement? That seems to be what the debate is really about.


Stating a 'net improvement" is a personal or suggestive perspective. That is NOT mine or that of others suffering significant issues with loss of recording time or stuttering issues. I would be more than happy to revert to the prior s/w. DoublePlay is a nice addition. But, to those of us with issues, the issues more than overwhelm the advantages.

i am increasing frrstrated with folks that seem to be supporting the latest s/w release for its features vs its injected issuees.


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## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

Mike Greer said:


> Thanks but they weren't my polls - but you're right they show exactly what DirecTV needs to know!


My sincere apologies to BattleScott, who came up with the great idea of the speed polls!


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

TimoHT said:


> Stating a 'net improvement" is a personal or suggestive perspective. That is NOT mine or that of others suffering significant issues with loss of recording time or stuttering issues. I would be more than happy to revert to the prior s/w. DoublePlay is a nice addition. But, to those of us with issues, the issues more than overwhelm the advantages.
> 
> i am increasing frrstrated with folks that seem to be supporting the latest s/w release for its features vs its injected issuees.


What do you mean by loss of recording time? If you are using DoublePlay, it does take up potentially 90 minutes of your recording capacity. Are you referring to something else?


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## TimoHT (Oct 6, 2008)

Doug Brott said:


> What do you mean by loss of recording time? If you are using DoublePlay, it does take up potentially 90 minutes of your recording capacity. Are you referring to something else?


It has nothing to do with DoublePlay. With respect to "loss of recording time", Please see:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=166333
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=166490
http://forums.directv.com/pe/action/forums/displaythread?rootPostID=10602774
http://forums.directv.com/pe/action/forums/displaythread?rootPostID=10601617

As an "expert" on DirecTV's systems and DVRs I assume your are current and familiar with the related posts.

Previously, I have never posted "negative" comments. But, I am increasingly frustrated with the apparent denial by "experts" and DirecTv of issues with the latest s/w release. The posts/evidence is compelling to any who consider it in total!!!!!


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## armophob (Nov 13, 2006)

I abstain


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

TimoHT said:


> It has nothing to do with DoublePlay. With respect to "loss of recording time", Please see:
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=166333
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=166490
> ...


Thanks for the links .. I haven't denied anything, BTW. If you have something negative to say then go right ahead and say it.


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## TimoHT (Oct 6, 2008)

Doug Brott said:


> Thanks for the links .. I haven't denied anything, BTW. If you have something negative to say then go right ahead and say it.


I apologize for any negative/personal implications. That's not my intent. I would only like to have a positive impact.

There are 3 issues that have been widely posted and might be related:

1) loss of recording time
2) "stuttering", described in various posts/perspectives
3) significantly increased disk activity (disk noise).

All of the above are SINCE the latest s/w update.

There are MANY threads/posts about these issues on DBStalk and DirecTV forums.

It is my "perception" that:

1) the evidence is compelling that there is an issue with the latest DirecTV s/w release

2) that the "experts" (including, "with much respect", Doug Brott) seem to be discounting the empirical evidence, but rather writing off the data to "coincidence" versus consolidating our data/posts toward an integrated view that might aid DirecTV toward resolution.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

DirecTV may fix the issues...but it's always possible as the hardware platform that the HR2x series is built on ages that the fix will come in an entirely new hardware and software platform. I would guess they have learned a lot from developing the HR2x and do a better job the second time around.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Bring a big plate.


Be glad too - hopefully I'll need it!


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Drew2k said:


> As to the primary question, will DIRECTV fix the problems with the HR2x receivers, the answer is YES. The question is not in the poll without qualifiers, or I would have voted, so I have abstained from the poll.


Sorry - I thought the Yes - fix is coming soon would apply. I guess you mean Yes sometime from now?

All these polls are meaningless.... Just entertaining! If you took a poll about the earth orbiting the sun you'd get a bunch of opinions... Some people just like to go against the group.:lol:


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

houskamp said:


> yep.. missing the "it does everything I need it to" option..


I couldn't put all the options people would come up with because there would 400 things to vote on!

To me "What problems? My receiver works great! The problems reported are cause by something other than the receiver hardware/software." is what you are saying. No?


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## Hutchinshouse (Sep 28, 2006)

I'm happy with my HR20-700 units. However, a little faster would be better.


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## TBlazer07 (Feb 5, 2009)

It's amazing how a typo can change the meaning of a positive comment. 

While the poll itself is kind of meaningless I agree completely with your comment (as it was meant to be written of course). A lot of "belittling" goes on around here when there is disagreement. It's only TV.



Steve said:


> Regardless of whether or not we agree with the OP, someone who has expended the effort to construct a poll like this obviously cares for the product he's using. *He certainly should be belittled for his efforts*, or his desire to improve the product.


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

I think we need a poll choice that says "_Some_ people's will never be fixed...":lol:


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> It would indeed be great for everyone to be 100% satisfied with their viewing experience and equipment use - hope that happens for everyone. Personally, I believe that not matter how well things are done, there will always be those who are never satisfied.


I was browsing thru the Better Business Bureau's website the other day, looking at contractor's ratings and a little voice whispered, "Check out D*. Just in NJ, over 33,000 complaints. None were mine. So, I gotta think that nationwide that figure would be enormous.

I've written several times that I think the TS has problems that are probably not the HRs fault, since I don't have them and the one 22 that I had was as fast and responsive as any 21 that I've had. I agree with your conclusion that he'll never be satisfied, but I'm beginning to think that there is some merit to his claims.

Rich


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> Yes.


Considering the distribution of responses on the last two items (which are mutually exclusive and inconsistent with the breadth and depth of reports on these forums), I conclude that these two items tell us a *lot* more about the respondents than anything else.

The responses remind me of "My mind's made up, don't confuse me with the facts." An objective reading of the *reported experiences* on these forums could not possibly result in selecting either of these items as an accurate response.

I suppose an individual with limited experience with an HR2 series box, and no history of reading others' reports, could make such a selection, but I doubt this would represent nearly 40% of all respondents.

Considering that a plethora of problems have been fixed on these boxes (which cannot be disputed), saying "what problems" or "they aren't working on anything" is ....well....silly.


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## djrobx (Jan 27, 2009)

I'm not convinced they'll be able to solve the speed issues to people's satisfaction without better hardware. From the technical discussions I've seen, it sounds like they went with the "cheaper/consolidated" route at the expense of performance with HR21+ and that was probably a mistake. 

It's taken them way too long to fix the "skips to end" issue but I do see progress on that front ... finally.

Overall though, I'm very pleased with the progress DirecTV is making with their receiver software. Time Warner in our area still has Circa 2004 DVR "TV Guide" software that has not been changed in the slightest. DirecTV's box works reliably for us and has most of the features I really want and need.


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## Spanky_Partain (Dec 7, 2006)

I believe it is important to report the issues in the appropriate thread so they can be addressed. That would be my recommendation for your problems that you are having.

Will Directv ever fix them? 

Hard to say if they will ever satisfy everyone and it would be my experience to keep posting the issues in the issue thread and start ranking the importance of the issue so it is seen as a high priority for you.

Good luck! 

PS
I did not see an answer for my participation in the poll!


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## say-what (Dec 14, 2006)

hasan said:


> Considering that a plethora of problems have been fixed on these boxes (which cannot be disputed), saying "what problems" or "they aren't working on anything" is ....well....silly.


No sillier than this poll, since the first 4 options require the voter to have some inside knowledge of what DirecTV is doing and the design limitations/capabilities of the HR2x.

I chose the last option b/c quite frankly, my 4 receivers work great.


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

say-what said:


> No sillier than this poll, since the first 4 options require the voter to have some inside knowledge of what DirecTV is doing and the design limitations/capabilities of the HR2x.
> 
> I chose the last option b/c quite frankly, my 4 receivers work great.


I didn't vote in the poll, because *to me* it is meaningless. The large responses to the last two items, which could not possibly be justified from any objective reading of the facts, reinforces that assessment (meaninglessness).

As a tool for discussion, the poll is fine. As a representation of reality, one would have better luck with a Ouija board.


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## say-what (Dec 14, 2006)

hasan said:


> ... one would have better luck with a Ouija board.


I prefer the magic 8-ball


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## bills (Nov 7, 2002)

i have a HR22-100 i have had for about a year, always worked fine up until about a week ago,began freezing up,question? does anyone have a suggestion on what to do about this problem? regards..


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

TBlazer07 said:


> It's amazing how a typo can change the meaning of a positive comment.


D'oh! Thanks for spotting that.  I've fixed the typo in the original post, which should have read as follows:


> Regardless of whether or not we agree with the OP, someone who has expended the effort to construct a poll like this obviously cares for the product he's using. He certainly should *not* be belittled for his efforts, or his desire to improve the product.


My point was simply that whether or not you agree with *Mike's* assumptions or position, he obviously cares about the product to have spent the time he did constructing his poll. So if you want to disagree, why not do so in an equally thoughtful manner, similar to *Larry's* and many others' posts in the thread, instead of trying to attack or be insulting?

Too many interesting/potentially interesting threads have had to be locked and occasionally re-started, because of behavior like that. Just my .02.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

bills said:


> i have a HR22-100 i have had for about a year, always worked fine up until about a week ago,began freezing up,question? does anyone have a suggestion on what to do about this problem? regards..


First, verify you have a strong signal strength on all satellites and both tuners (not every transponder will be strong, but most should be). If that looks good, then try running the Built in Self-test (BIST) to try and repair your hard drive. To run the hard drive checks, please follow these steps:


reboot STB via Menu -> Parental, Fav's & Setup -> System Setup -> Reset -> Restart Receiver
when they see "Running receiver self-check" press select
You will see "Entering Diagnostics Mode..."
select Advanced Tests Menu -> Hard Drive utilities -> Surface Test
*Warning*: This process could take several hours to complete. You may want to run it overnight.

The good news is that every attempt is made to save programming. This is less destructive than a reformat all and could provide you with a more stable system if you are having problems that appear to be related to the hard drive.


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## bills (Nov 7, 2002)

Doug Brott said:


> First, verify you have a strong signal strength on all satellites and both tuners (not every transponder will be strong, but most should be). If that looks good, then try running the Built in Self-test (BIST) to try and repair your hard drive. To run the hard drive checks, please follow these steps:
> 
> 
> reboot STB via Menu -> Parental, Fav's & Setup -> System Setup -> Reset -> Restart Receiver
> ...


thank you...regards


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Steve said:


> Too many interesting/potentially interesting threads have had to be locked and occasionally re-started, because of behavior like that. Just my .02.


<mod hat>

Just to reiterate .. Stick to the forum rules and all will be fine. You may have either positive or negative views .. both are acceptable as along as everyone respects each other as part of the discussion.

</mod hat>


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> I couldn't put all the options people would come up with because there would 400 things to vote on!
> 
> To me "What problems? My receiver works great! The problems reported are cause by something other than the receiver hardware/software." is what you are saying. No?


 Nope.. that would be putting words in my mouth.. the 1st part would be true here tho..


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

say-what said:


> No sillier than this poll, since the first 4 options require the voter to have some inside knowledge of what DirecTV is doing and the design limitations/capabilities of the HR2x.
> 
> I chose the last option b/c quite frankly, my 4 receivers work great.


You are correct, of course, we don't know for sure what D* is doing to fix things. But there are strong indicators that fixing basic issues is secondary to adding a new 'gee whiz' feature.

It has been interesting to me to note that the problems I see on the HR21-700 I have are what the majority here that respond are having, or in my case, I should say was having as I terminated D* because of the poor performing HR and no other reason.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

I gotta ask. What hardware limitations "prevent them from completely fixing the issues"?

Mike


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

MicroBeta said:


> I gotta ask. What hardware limitations "prevent them from completely fixing the issues"?


GUIDE speed comes to mind. I believe that the HR20's are a bit quicker than the 21/22/23's, probably due to the dual memory architecture vs. shared memory architecture design of the different motherboards.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

Steve said:


> GUIDE speed comes to mind. I believe that the HR20's are a bit quicker than the 21/22/23's, probably due to the dual memory architecture vs. shared memory architecture design of the different motherboards.


I'm not sure anyone is currently using the BCM7038/BCM7411 in new equipment. The 7411 is an old chip.

But, you have a point that the BCM7401 which was chosen to reduce architecture cost, may not be as efficient as the BCM7038/BCM7411. There is no doubt that my HR20-700 if the fastest of my DVRs so there is definitely something there.

If it's solely the chipset then I would expect to see a speed difference between my HR23-700 and my HR21-100. However, the HR23 is the faster of the two.

This might be an indicator, to me at least, that it has to be related to differences in firmware as well as the possibility of the chipset.

Does anyone have both an HR21-100 & HR21-700 and do you see a speed difference?

I believe the firmware can get the receivers to a point that you can only tell the speed difference if they're side by side. I've seen some versions that were dang fast compared to other versions and I think we'll get back to that.

I don't believe the hardware is the sole issue here. The TiVo series 3 has used the BCM7401 as well as Blu-Ray & HD-DVD players without any problems.

My 2¢ anyway. :grin:

Mike


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## Racer88 (Sep 13, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Having had a DIRECTV HD DVR since September, 2006, I've seen improvement after improvement. I know that it's frustrating when it seems like every update creates some issues as it solves others... but if you look at it on balance I think it's easy to see that things have gotten steadily better.


Yeah so easy to see the improvements in the areas of.....

Keybounce...
Screensaver activation for no earthly reason whatsoever....
Bouts of super sluggish response to remote input....
Stupid press and hold transport functions....
General deterioration of overall performance as time between reboots goes by....

(here's a clue btw....little to NOTHING has been done to any of these LONG TERM issues.......)

:nono2::nono2::nono2::nono2::nono2::nono2:

Keep your lips planted firmly on DirecTV's collective arse's long enough and I guess the view never changes and it's all good....


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## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

The question posed in the poll,

_"Do you think that DirecTV will ever 'fix' the problems with the HR2x receivers?"_

to me, is obviously asking for my "opinion". To call it "useless" or "irrelevant" is ignorant. Any poll can tell you something if you take the time to analyze it. 
If nothing else, it can tell them how customers precieve their recent efforts and how they are doing in terms of consumer confidence.

Looking at the voting as it stands today, nearly 65% of the respondants have a negative opinion on whether or not DirecTV will be able to fix the issues they are having with their DVR. Of those 65%, more than half believe they could do so if they chose to, but are focusing attention elsewhere.

No matter how you slice it, blame it on "tech-crowd polling", "only complainers post", etc., that is still not a good number to see.

As for my vote, I chose the hardware limitations option as the general speed of operations is my only real complaint at this time.


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## Racer88 (Sep 13, 2006)

mdavej said:


> My view is the more features and band-aids they add will continue to introduce bugs and slowdowns. They only solution, without starting from scratch, with more efficient code to begin with, is faster hardware, just like in the PC world. That will only come with future models. So I'm afraid we're stuck with what we've got on existing hardware.


That's pretty much it in a nutshell....


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

Racer88 said:


> Yeah so easy to see the improvements in the areas of.....
> 
> Keybounce...
> Screensaver activation for no earthly reason whatsoever....
> ...


See now, that last parts uncalled for. You're effectively calling someone a fanboy and a liar. Make your point without the rude commentary please.

Mike


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Folks, I've seen the posts .. I've exchanges PMs. I'm aware that some of you are frustrated. Let me assure you that DIRECTV is aware of your concerns and will continue to make improvements.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Basic rules of forum life: Everyone gets to rant or vent from time to time. (Politely, please.) It happens. 

There will be duplicate threads. (Based on timing, moderators get to decided to let them be [if separated by time], merge, or close and direct to the first thread.) That's what we're paid compliments for. 

And from time to time a good summary of the current status is a good thing. Mike Greer's original post was thoughtful and polite. It shows a caring for the product (well said, Steve).

Now, as to his question... There might be some mild mutual exclusivity in some of the problems in that some of them are designed to help prevent other problems or a consequence of features. BUT, even at that, I'm sure DIRECTV is hard at work reducing the not so good side-effects and the problems.

Mike Greer, keep asking. Polite, constructive discussion helps. Nothing wrong with that at all.

Thanks,
Tom


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## Sartori (Nov 15, 2008)

Two HR21 Pro's, zero problems or issues, they both been up and running now for a year, never have to reboot them either....very fast and very stable!!


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> Mike Greer, keep asking. Polite, constructive discussion helps. Nothing wrong with that at all.


+1


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## TimoHT (Oct 6, 2008)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Having had a DIRECTV HD DVR since September, 2006, I've seen improvement after improvement. I know that it's frustrating when it seems like every update creates some issues as it solves others... but if you look at it on balance I think it's easy to see that things have gotten steadily better.


Stuart, Until the latest s/w release I would agree with you. However, I'm disappointed to see one of our Super Moderators seeming to discount significant problems with the latest release: Lost Recording Time; Audio/video stuttering/drops; Slowdown. I have experienced all of those issues and the number of posts documenting these issues presents a compelling case.

The problems we are seeing are NOT coincidence with respect to the latest s/w release. They are the result of issues with that s/w. I'm only mildly disappointed with DirecTV for these s/w bugs. It happens and its tough to test all usage scenarios for every DVR model that's in the field. But, I want to see DirecTV quickly issue a release that resolves these issues and I am very disappointed each time I read a post that ignores the data and discounts the current issues because that can diminish their urgency to DirecTV.


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## islesfan (Oct 18, 2006)

They have already announced a fix for the HR2X line. They will be releasing a TiVo next year!


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## tanasi (Nov 21, 2005)

i have two hr23's in my media room each paired with an am21. i got these just recently to replace a three year old hr20-700 and a three year old hr20-100 which were paired with external drives. their behavior was becoming a bit flaky plus i liked the newer black ones as they match all my other gear. they were both fairly quick and i had few problems until recently and rarely skipped to the end of recordings.

since changing to the hr23's i have noticed slower response but they have recorded admirably. there seems to be a busy time however, when neither machine will respond to remote commands. during this time if i use slip it jumps to the end of the recording or if i use replay it jumps to the beginning. this only happens on mpeg4. if i hit replay or slip during busy times on mpeg2 recordings from OTA it just doesn't respond. i record a lot of football games and have never watched an mpeg4 recording that didn't skip to the end using slip. i like to slip between plays which increases my chances of doing it during a busy time. i also hit replay yesterday during a busy time and it skipped to the beginning. 

is this hardware, software or a little of both? before finding this thread i thought it might be related to the USB connection of the am21 taking processing power away from the units.


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## TimoHT (Oct 6, 2008)

islesfan said:


> They have already announced a fix for the HR2X line. They will be releasing a TiVo next year!


Great! Where did you see the announcement of a fix for the HR2X line? Did they itemize the issues addressed?

Thanks.

EDIT: Oh, I get it... DUH!!!! ..... nevermind....


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## Sartori (Nov 15, 2008)

islesfan said:


> They have already announced a fix for the HR2X line. They will be releasing a TiVo next year!


I knew a Tivo Fanboy would pop up sooner or later...


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Let's keep the Tivo discussion confined to the thread designed for it.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

tanasi said:


> i have two hr23's in my media room each paired with an am21. i got these just recently to replace a three year old hr20-700 and a three year old hr20-100 which were paired with external drives. their behavior was becoming a bit flaky plus i liked the newer black ones as they match all my other gear. they were both fairly quick and i had few problems until recently and rarely skipped to the end of recordings.
> 
> since changing to the hr23's i have noticed slower response but they have recorded admirably. there seems to be a busy time however, when neither machine will respond to remote commands. during this time if i use slip it jumps to the end of the recording or if i use replay it jumps to the beginning. this only happens on mpeg4. if i hit replay or slip during busy times on mpeg2 recordings from OTA it just doesn't respond. i record a lot of football games and have never watched an mpeg4 recording that didn't skip to the end using slip. i like to slip between plays which increases my chances of doing it during a busy time. i also hit replay yesterday during a busy time and it skipped to the beginning.
> 
> is this hardware, software or a little of both? before finding this thread i thought it might be related to the USB connection of the am21 taking processing power away from the units.


My 23 did the same things. Deactivated it and sent it back.

Rich


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## RACJ2 (Aug 2, 2008)

tanasi said:


> i have two hr23's in my media room each paired with an am21. i got these just recently to replace a three year old hr20-700 and a three year old hr20-100 which were paired with external drives. their behavior was becoming a bit flaky plus i liked the newer black ones as they match all my other gear. they were both fairly quick and i had few problems until recently and rarely skipped to the end of recordings.
> 
> since changing to the hr23's i have noticed slower response but they have recorded admirably. there seems to be a busy time however, when neither machine will respond to remote commands. during this time if i use slip it jumps to the end of the recording or if i use replay it jumps to the beginning. this only happens on mpeg4. if i hit replay or slip during busy times on mpeg2 recordings from OTA it just doesn't respond. i record a lot of football games and have never watched an mpeg4 recording that didn't skip to the end using slip. i like to slip between plays which increases my chances of doing it during a busy time. i also hit replay yesterday during a busy time and it skipped to the beginning.
> 
> is this hardware, software or a little of both? before finding this thread i thought it might be related to the USB connection of the am21 taking processing power away from the units.


I have 2 HR22-100's and experience the same thing. Sometimes they work fine and other times I have the skip-to-tick and slow response to the remote issues. I have wondered if this happens when the schedule updates are running or when they push the PPV to the DVR.


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## Scott Kocourek (Jun 13, 2009)

RACJ2 said:


> I have wondered if this happens when the schedule updates are running or when they push the PPV to the DVR.


Would you be able to rule this out by activating DP? This would either stop update or stop recording of unwanted material. I would think then you could put one tuner on a non recordable channel like the music channels so it would not buffer.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

rich584 said:


> I was browsing thru the Better Business Bureau's website the other day, looking at contractor's ratings and a little voice whispered, "Check out D*. Just in NJ, over 33,000 complaints. None were mine. So, I gotta think that nationwide that figure would be enormous.
> Rich


Are you serious :eek2: 33,000 complaints in just New Jersey :eek2:

UPDATE:
Never Mind just checked, 33,683 complaints :eek2: WOW


----------



## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> Folks, I've seen the posts .. I've exchanges PMs. I'm aware that some of you are frustrated. Let me assure you that DIRECTV is aware of your concerns and will continue to make improvements.


I had no idea that so many people are still having so many problems. I did find the 034c update slowed down my HR23, Ahemm that was after Mr Broot promised a speedier unit after the update  Anyway I forgive you, my HR20 is better after the update
Still Doug it's not that bad, the only real problem for me is that remote issue. It's annoying, but I never know if it's my Harmony 890 or the HR2X so I leave that one out. Overall things are much much better than a year ago.


----------



## peano (Feb 1, 2004)

Mike Greer said:


> ...... I have had an HR for a little over a year now. I figure if they haven't fixed the major issues yet they probably won't or can't. I'm not sure why but many of the problems have been around from the begining. Of course they have fixed a boat load of problems but the remaining problems - especially the speed and the inability to use the remote don't seem to change. If they are working on these why has it been years?
> 
> I hope they fix the major ones at least but it is looking pretty grim.


I agree. I voted they aren't working on it because it is "good enough". If they haven't by now I doubt they ever will.

For those that think the HR series works fine, you need a point of reference by using the competitors product. Once you do, you will realize how poorly the HR series perform.


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

dreadlk said:


> I had no idea that so many people are still having so many problems. I did find the 034c update slowed down my HR23, Ahemm that was after Mr Broot promised a speedier unit after the update  Anyway I forgive you, my HR20 is better after the update
> Still Doug it's not that bad, the only real problem for me is that remote issue. It's annoying, but I never know if it's my Harmony 890 or the HR2X so I leave that one out. Overall things are much much better than a year ago.


not sure if this will help.
been messing with my harmony 1000 inter-key delays and found that changing from default 100 ms to 200 ms worked wonders.


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## MartyS (Dec 29, 2006)

David MacLeod said:


> not sure if this will help.
> been messing with my harmony 1000 inter-key delays and found that changing from default 100 ms to 200 ms worked wonders.


Great point, Dave... I find the same things with my Harmony One... interkey delays make a big difference.


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## tanasi (Nov 21, 2005)

RACJ2 said:


> I have 2 HR22-100's and experience the same thing. Sometimes they work fine and other times I have the skip-to-tick and slow response to the remote issues. I have wondered if this happens when the schedule updates are running or when they push the PPV to the DVR.


i've used five different remotes endeavoring to find a solution but it still occurs with all of them. i used the RC64, Harmony One, Harmony 676, Universal WR7 and the Sony VL-610. playing around with the timings on the harmonies does not seem to help and they worked fine with my old hr20 units. i do think it occurs most frequently when both tuners are recording. plus i am using the HDMI output and sometimes recording OTA with the am21.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

dreadlk said:


> Are you serious :eek2: 33,000 complaints in just New Jersey :eek2:
> 
> UPDATE:
> Never Mind just checked, 33,683 complaints :eek2: WOW


I gotta be honest. I'm obsessive and it's really difficult to stop myself from getting BBB info from each state and adding them all up. Fortunately, I'm also terribly lazy. :lol:

I did check Verizon, and was shocked to see that they only had about a third of the complaints that D* did. They had resolved virtually every complaint. I find this really amazing, considering the extremely poor tech service and store service. I only checked Verizon Wireless, but that part of Verizon has been the worst for us.

Rich


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

rich584 said:


> I gotta be honest. I'm obsessive and it's really difficult to stop myself from getting BBB info from each state and adding them all up. Fortunately, I'm also terribly lazy. :lol:
> 
> I did check Verizon, and was shocked to see that they only had about a third of the complaints that D* did. They had resolved virtually every complaint. I find this really amazing, considering the extremely poor tech service and store service. I only checked Verizon Wireless, but that part of Verizon has been the worst for us.
> 
> Rich


I don't think those numbers are right. They appear to be national. No matter what location I type into the search (and view the report), the results are the same, It appears that the numbers might be National and not keyed to a location, state or zip code. There is no way there are 33,758 complaints from Boone County, IA. (Or even in the entire state of Iowa...it just isn't possible)

Perhaps I'm using the tool incorrectly. If so, someone clue me in.


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## Barry in Conyers (Jan 14, 2008)

Take a step back and look at the big picture.

First, the track record does not suggest that D* is capable of correcting the problems with the HR2x DVR's.

Second, why should they? Introducing a new and improved series (HR3x ???) will "encourage" a large number of users to "upgrade" and be locked in to a new two year comittment and that is the D* business model.


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

Barry in Conyers said:


> Take a step back and look at the big picture.
> 
> First, the track record does not suggest that D* is capable of correcting the problems with the HR2x DVR's.
> 
> Second, why should they? Introducing a new and improved series (HR3x ???) will "encourage" a large number of users to "upgrade" and be locked in to a new two year comittment and that is the D* business model.


I'll take a 3 year "step back"...is that far enough for you?

My HR boxes have had many, many problems fixed. Some sooner, some later, some not really addressed at all. To say their track record for fixing problems suggests that they are incapable of, or unwilling to, fix things is a gross exaggeration in my experience.

The amount of development I've personally witnessed over this three year period is astonishing in some respects. The fact that one particular problem may not have been fixed (or more), does not outweigh the dozens of others that have.

In other words, it's a mixed bag. Lots of fixes, many new features and enhancements, and a number of long standing issues or issues that come and go with various releases. There is a lot of work yet to be done, and my experience is that much of what concerns me, eventually gets worked on.

Two things I have learned:

1. Discard histrionic and/or hyperbolic comments
2. Develop patience.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

hasan said:


> I don't think those numbers are right. They appear to be national. No matter what location I type into the search (and view the report), the results are the same, It appears that the numbers might be National and not keyed to a location, state or zip code. There is no way there are 33,758 complaints from Boone County, IA. (Or even in the entire state of Iowa...it just isn't possible)
> 
> Perhaps I'm using the tool incorrectly. If so, someone clue me in.


No, you're getting the same results I am. I just called up the BBB and what you're seeing is the national results. There is no way to break it down by states. Why they ask you to put in the state you're interested in is confusing and the CSR I talked to didn't do a good job of explaining why they do it that way, but that's what they do. So, over 33,000 complaints nationwide isn't really that bad. The guy did say that D* is one of the largest companies that they get complaints about.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Barry in Conyers said:


> Take a step back and look at the big picture.
> 
> First, the track record does not suggest that D* is capable of correcting the problems with the HR2x DVR's.
> 
> Second, why should they? Introducing a new and improved series (HR3x ???) will "encourage" a large number of users to "upgrade" and be locked in to a new two year comittment and that is the D* business model.


Don't forget, we were led to believe that the 21 series would be an upgrade to the 20 series and look how that turned out. That includes the 22s and 23s.

No reason to think that a new HR will be any better.

Rich


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

hasan said:


> I'll take a 3 year "step back"...is that far enough for you?
> 
> My HR boxes have had many, many problems fixed. Some sooner, some later, some not really addressed at all. To say their track record for fixing problems suggests that they are incapable of, or unwilling to, fix things is a gross exaggeration in my experience.
> 
> ...


I just had an HR21-700 for about 2 years and my track record doesn't match yours in the way of making things better. Yes, we did get some improvements, but it seemed that all of them came at the expense of basic operation, remote response and the pesky skip-to-end issue. From my perspective, each update either didn't change things or made the basics worse in that period of time. I was perfectly happy with the HR21-700 when I first got it and sincerely wished that they had the option of not updating!

As to your two points. I agree with #1 and try not to make those kinds of statements, sometimes not successfully. For #2, patience is for those things I'm not paying cold, hard cash for. Mine ran out and I moved.

IF/when D* comes out with a new box that fixes the issues that bugged me the most, I'll consider returning. But not one moment before that.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Barry in Conyers said:


> Take a step back and look at the big picture.
> 
> First, the track record does not suggest that D* is capable of correcting the problems with the HR2x DVR's.
> 
> Second, why should they? Introducing a new and improved series (HR3x ???) will "encourage" a large number of users to "upgrade" and be locked in to a new two year comittment and that is the D* business model.


Here's some "Big Picture" retrospective:

The DIRECTV Plus® HD DVR: A Look at the First Year
The DIRECTV Plus High Definition DVR - Year Two
The DIRECTV High Definition DVR - Year Three

Also, a list of Wish List items that have been completed in the past 3 years (no particular order):

"BLACKED-OUT" programs should be tagged, to prevent scheduling blank recordings.
"[...]access [...] home videos [...] directly from Intel� Viiv� PCs" - 2006 Annual Report, p.7.
30s SLIP should work at a faster speed.
4x FF mode - Enable Faster Fast Forward as shown in the owner's manual on p.iv.
A quick way to toggle Closed Captions On/Off.
A way to opt-in to software updates that have not yet been released nationally.
Ability to cycle through the CUSTOM channel lists while in GUIDE.
Ability to edit all shows in the PRIORITIZER, even when there are none upcoming, page 28.
Ability to jump to marked points in playback (End Points and TickMarks).
Ability to load/play multimedia files from an external source.
Ability to remotely control more than two HR20/21's in the same room via IR.
Ability to schedule a program remotely over the Internet.
Ability to watch recordings when there's no satellite signal.
After SEARCH by title, limit final search results to the episodes on the selected channel only!
All A/V Outputs should be disabled when the unit is put in standby mode.
At the Delete/Don't Delete pop-up at the end of recording, RW and REPLAY should still function.
Automatically pad a recording's start and/or stop time by one minute, when it won't cause a conflict.
AUTORECORD keywords with special characters, e.g. Americas should record matches to America's.
Broadband Video on Demand - Investor Day 2/22/06 Slide 54
Cache the OTA information so that it can be quickly discovered after a reset.
Display conflicting programs in the To Do List
Display LONG CHANNEL NAMES in the CHANNELS I GET or CUSTOM channel set-up lists.
Display more show details, like "Original Air Date", to allow better searching.
Driver support for "N" USB wireless devices to more easily integrate wireless networking
Dual Live Buffers - Toggle between two live shows with 30+ minute buffers on each.
During FF or RW, LEFT/RIGHT arrows should SKIP-TO-TICKS.
Enable "Local Off-Air" (Over The Air) ATSC Programming, p.76 of the manual.
Enable "Sound Effects" as shows in the photo on p. 29 of the manual.
Enable Parental Controls in My Playlist as defined in the owner's manual on page 34.
eSATA -Enable consumer installable Hard Drive Expansion Device - Investor Day 2/22/06 Slide 41
Fast Forward correction to compensate user response time when pressing PLAY key.
Group-play, or the ability to play all programs in a group one after the other.
GUIDE button should "display the Guide" first and Channel Categories second per p. iv. & 4.
History feature should contain updated information on "why" things occurred.
Icon in GUIDE if a particular program is already on MY PLAYLIST or the TO DO LIST.
LEFT ARROW should function like the BACK button in all menus where this is practical.
Make Caller ID work reliably.
Make Closed Captioning (Setup>Display Menu) work reliably.
Make the Replay Button consistently jump back 6 seconds, per manual p.iv.
OPTION to disable FFx1 AUTOCORRECTION.
OPTION to have My Playlist remember how I would like to view the list (chronological, alphabetical, etc.)
OPTION to turn off Guide/List/Menu Animation for better Ease of Use & response.
Optional "triple-tap" text entry for SEARCH term input or editing.
Remember if the LIVE BUFFER is PAUSED, when using PREV to toggle between LIVE TV and recording PLAYBACK.
Save GUIDE/INTERACTIVE data on Hard Disk for easy recovery after reset.
Selecting a SHOW in the PRIORITIZER should always display its upcoming EPISODE list.
Show the HD Icon on programs in all lists (e.g. search results).
Show the highlighted program's description in the "To Do List" and "History", instead of a static message.
Soft buffering, or putting the last couple of minutes of one show and the first couple of minutes of a second show into both recordings if shows are recorded back-to-back on the same channel.
Treat words like "The" and "A" at the beginning of a title as optional during a search.
Turn off "searching for satellite" message when watching a recorded program.
When re-ordering a show in the PRIORITIZER, CHAN UP/CHAN DOWN should move it one full page at a time.


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## Barry in Conyers (Jan 14, 2008)

hasan said:


> My HR boxes have had many, many problems fixed. Some sooner, some later, some not really addressed at all. To say their track record for fixing problems suggests that they are incapable of, or unwilling to, fix things is a gross exaggeration in my experience.
> 
> The amount of development I've personally witnessed over this three year period is astonishing in some respects. The fact that one particular problem may not have been fixed (or more), does not outweigh the dozens of others that have.


First, there should have been no need to "fix" dozens of problems. Second, the purpose of a DVR is to record and playback programming. The HR2x series of DVR's has been around long enough for D* to have permanently corrected that basic function, but it has not happened. Like it or not, that is the track record.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Barry in Conyers said:


> First, there should have been no need to "fix" dozens of problems. Second, the purpose of a DVR is to record and playback programming. The HR2x series of DVR's has been around long enough for D* to have permanently corrected that basic function, but it has not happened. Like it or not, that is the track record.


You know, I hate the "It doesn't happen to me" comments as much as anyone else, but I've gotta say .. It's been well over a year since my last missed recording .. This is all I do is record/watch .. LiveTV consists of sports programming on the weekends.

I am but one person, but that's what I see.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> You know, I hate the "It doesn't happen to me" comments as much as anyone else, but I've gotta say .. It's been well over a year since my last missed recording .. This is all I do is record/watch .. LiveTV consists of sports programming on the weekends.
> 
> I am but one person, but that's what I see.


Same here. During my first year of ownership, beginning in early 2007, I was a TiVo fanboy who was as big a critic as anyone about the HR20's not being able to perform what I used to call "DVR 101" functions. Since mid 2008, I'm pretty sure I haven't missed a recording either.


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## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

I have had two lost recordings in 2 1/2 years, one of which was my fault. However, I've lost count of the number of brrrps I still get. And with the latest update I'm losing one or more digits from my 3-digit channel inputs pretty often.


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## TimoHT (Oct 6, 2008)

Doug Brott said:


> You know, I hate the "It doesn't happen to me" comments as much as anyone else, but I've gotta say .. It's been well over a year since my last missed recording .. This is all I do is record/watch .. LiveTV consists of sports programming on the weekends.
> 
> I am but one person, but that's what I see.


Doug, I agree with the spirit of your prior post itemizing so many improvements and fixes. And, I was pretty much drinking the "DirecTV Corporate Kool Aid" until the latest release. But, I gotta tell ya, those of us with issues caused by the latest release are really suffering. I won't list all those issues here. They are well posted. Taking those posts/evidence in total presents a compelling, virtually undeniable case that there ARE serious issues with the latest release.

And, as you said above, "I hate the 'It doesn't happen to me comments'", especially when they come from one of our most historically helpful, knowledgeable and influential forum leaders. Such comments diminish the impact of those of us identifying and suffering with related issues and can only reduce their apparent urgency to DirecTV.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

TimoHT said:


> And, as you said above, "I hate the 'It doesn't happen to me comments'", especially when they come from one of our most historically helpful, knowledgeable and influential forum leaders. Such comments diminish the impact of those of us identifying and suffering with related issues and can only reduce their apparent urgency to DirecTV.


Trust me, nothing I say will reduce the urgency of any issue within DIRECTV. They have multiple avenues for understanding what any problems are. Look for some improvements in the not so distant future.

As for my particular comments above, it was with respect to recording and playback. I was relating my experience in my house on multiple DVRs. The only issues that I have personally had in the recent past relate to the MPEG4 data stream either an encoding issue or a transmission issue - completely unrelated to the STB that is receiving the signal. The biggest of these is the occasional 3-5 second video blackout. This occurred simultaneously on two different model DVRs connected to 2 different satellite dishes using two different technologies (SWM vs. WB68). While bothersome, it happens somewhat infrequently, but enough to notice.

Still, on the whole, I'm happy. That's what I want to share.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

David MacLeod said:


> not sure if this will help.
> been messing with my harmony 1000 inter-key delays and found that changing from default 100 ms to 200 ms worked wonders.


Thanks I will try that.


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## Sartori (Nov 15, 2008)

Doug Brott said:


> You know, I hate the "It doesn't happen to me" comments as much as anyone else, but I've gotta say .. It's been well over a year since my last missed recording .. This is all I do is record/watch .. LiveTV consists of sports programming on the weekends.
> 
> I am but one person, but that's what I see.


Don't feel like the lone stranger, whenever I post something positive about my receivers I get tagged as some fanboy.... I even posted a video just to prove how fast my receivers are, I think that shut a few people up


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

rich584 said:


> No, you're getting the same results I am. I just called up the BBB and what you're seeing is the national results. There is no way to break it down by states. Why they ask you to put in the state you're interested in is confusing and the CSR I talked to didn't do a good job of explaining why they do it that way, but that's what they do. So, over 33,000 complaints nationwide isn't really that bad. The guy did say that D* is one of the largest companies that they get complaints about.
> 
> Rich


I did some checking also and I was also told that Directv gets some of the most complaints of any company. Mostly about peoples Credit Cards being held hostage. What is alarming is that the Resolution rate for Directv is almost Zero while even lowly Dishnetwork has a high resolution rate. IOW I think D* does not give a rats ass if people are complaining to the BBB.


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## Movieman (May 9, 2009)

There seems to be a lot of unhappiness with this new release. First, I dont think it was not done to upset their customer base. Im sure when it was released the intent was to make improvements with all releases and updates. Second, this will not be the last firmware update and if im not mistaken one will be coming out soon to hopefully fix the issues that are specific to speed. I would say just give a little patience and continue to give feedback. Also, if and when this newer release comes out dont forget to give feedback if it works or doesnt. Helps on both fronts. Personally, im very happy with both my DVR's and would not trade them for any other DVR as I have had several from other companies. Is it perfect? Nope. But its sure beats the Comcast DVR I had and the Dishnet DVR I had. I think we also expect a lot from our DVR's with so much technology. Hopefully the next HDDVR will have much more of the services and features that this forum community wants. BTW 33K complaints nationally is not a lot compared to how many customers Directv has. It could be better but even with those numbers more people are joining Directv than its competitors.


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

Barry in Conyers said:


> First, there should have been no need to "fix" dozens of problems. Second, the purpose of a DVR is to record and playback programming. The HR2x series of DVR's has been around long enough for D* to have permanently corrected that basic function, but it has not happened. Like it or not, that is the track record.


Considering how much is going on in these boxes, I'm not at all surprised, nor am I dismayed that there have been dozens of fixes in all sorts of areas. I'd be really unhappy if there weren't fixes as well as active efforts to improve performance and functions.

Perhaps the difference between us is I have been in on things since the start, where things were really rocky (HR20-700) and have observed remarkable, and steady improvement. Like Doug, above, I have not had a lost recording in over two years. That's pretty important. There are many other things to work on, to be sure...I'm just not upset about it.

I have many consumer electronic devices that can't (or won't) be worked on. They are dead ended, and many were that way from the start. Others have avenues for fixes/features and have never been used (and never will be). I don't have a single sophisticated electronic device in the home that works 100% perfectly all the time, not one.

The key difference for me is that these boxes work well for me, most of the time, and are constantly being developed from both the bug-fix and feature sides. As long as this continues and the basic functionality remains useful during this development, I'm quite satisfied....but hey...that's just me.


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## TimoHT (Oct 6, 2008)

hasan said:


> As long as this continues and the basic functionality remains useful during this development, I'm quite satisfied....but hey...that's just me.


Yup. That's "just you". I'm glad the "basic functionality" is working for you. But, I and many others have had a lot of recordings deleted as a result of bugs in the latest release. We need to watch the "remaining space" issue continually to catch the times that it drops for no apparent reason. If we miss that instance, recordings are deleted to make space. In our case, the total recording space drops to as low as 10 HD hours (HR20-100) for no apparent reason. A reset brings back the space to the expected 30ish HD hours. But, if we miss it.... recordings start to be deleted.

So,,,, versus your experience, I'd have to say the "Basic Functionality" is not remaining useful for us and the others posting similar problems.

ya know... its just tooooooo easy to say that if you are not personally having severe problems they don't exist or are not signifcant.


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

TimoHT said:


> Yup. That's "just you". I'm glad the "basic functionality" is working for you. But, I and many others have had a lot of recordings deleted as a result of bugs in the latest release. We need to watch the "remaining space" issue continually to catch the times that it drops for no apparent reason. If we miss that instance, recordings are deleted to make space. In our case, the total recording space drops to as low as 10 HD hours (HR20-100) for no apparent reason. A reset brings back the space to the expected 30ish HD hours. But, if we miss it.... recordings start to be deleted.
> 
> So,,,, versus your experience, I'd have to say the "Basic Functionality" is not remaining useful for us and the others posting similar problems.
> 
> ya know... its just tooooooo easy to say that if you are not personally having severe problems they don't exist or are not signifcant.


It's not about "easy", it's about experience. The sum total of users' experiences is the best reflection of the current state, as well as the developmental cycle for these boxes. I have never said there aren't problems. That is a complete mis-characterization of what I have posted. Some are worse than others. What I object to is the implication that "things will never get fixed". That is inaccurate and I'm not the only one (by a long shot) whose direct experience with the boxes show consistent, long term progress.

Finding out why this dichotomy exists is what is important, not unsupportable, overly broad generalizations like "the boxes aren't being fixed". Histrionics and hyperbole may be perfectly acceptable literary techniques, but do nothing for one's credibility in what should be an empirical environment. I've had a single instance of the "runaway recording" issue. I lost nothing. Why? Most likely it is due to two factors: first, I have my default recordings set to Keep Until I Delete; second, I have a 750 gig drive, which would give me a considerable amount of time to catch a runaway before it could do damage. In my case, it was 14 hours of runaway. That was one bug, one time. It only happened on one of three DVRs. It hasn't happened again. I'm sorry, but it just doesn't bother me that it happened.

Problems exist, some worse than others. They are being addressed, some quickly some slowly. Progress is evident to an objective observer over a considerable amount of time. There have been two long term, high participation surveys on these forums about "satisfaction" with the H boxes. Both produced very similar results, with satisfaction being in the mid-80% range.

This doesn't mean there aren't or haven't been problems. It does mean that *for most of the respondents* in spite of those problems, they have been pleased with the overall progress and performance of their boxes. This doesn't mean we're done. It doesn't mean everything is OK. It doesn't mean there aren't problems, some worse than others. It means what it says, and it pretty much reflects what my other post stated.

What is the internet cliche? YMMV.

Saying "will they ever fix" or "nothing is being done", or some other exaggeration is neither accurate nor useful, although it may be cathartic for some.

Our goal is to get these boxes to work as well as possible. Reporting problems objectively and holding D*'s feet to fire about them *has been productive*. We all need to keep doing this! Making overly broad generalizations (will they ever fix the H boxes), is not productive.

We need to stick to our knitting and be patient while doing so. The alternative is self-frustration and a loss in credibility, which help no one.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

hasan said:


> Our goal is to get these boxes to work as well as possible. Reporting problems objectively and holding D*'s feet to fire about them *has been productive*. We all need to keep doing this! Making overly broad generalizations (will they ever fix the H boxes), is not productive.
> 
> We need to stick to our knitting and be patient while doing so. The alternative is self-frustration and a loss in credibility, which helps no one.


Well said.


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## TimoHT (Oct 6, 2008)

hasan said:


> What I object to is the implication that "things will never get fixed". That is inaccurate and I'm not the only one (by a long shot) whose direct experience with the boxes show consistent, long term progress.


I don't disagree with your statement (above) and experience. I have not lost faith in DirecTV and have been a user and advocate for more than 10 years.

What I object to is instances where a poster has not personally experienced the severe problems present for many of us since the last s/w release - and - that poster then says or implies that things are really ok and any problems are minor. An individual who has lost many recordings due to the recent problems would not think they are "minor." There are SERIOUS problems with the latest s/w release and I am just disappointed when I see posts seeming to diminish that severity since that could result in less urgency as perceived by DirecTV.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

TimoHT said:


> I don't disagree with your statement (above) and experience. I have not lost faith in DirecTV and have been a user and advocate for more than 10 years.
> 
> What I object to is instances where a poster has not personally experienced the severe problems present for many of us since the last s/w release - and - that poster then says or implies that things are really ok and any problems are minor. An individual who has lost many recordings due to the recent problems would not think they are "minor." There are SERIOUS problems with the latest s/w release and I am just disappointed when I see posts seeming to diminish that severity since that could result in less urgency as perceived by DirecTV.


One possible explanation for you seeing what you're seeing and others who post here are not seeing could be that many of us are CE'ers, who don't stay on a particular NR release long enough to see any problems that may crop up after extended use. We test the heck out of it for a week, and then move on to the next beta release over the week-end.

Another thing we do, because we d/l each weekend, is reboot the receivers at least once a week, which also may have a bearing on the long-term stability of a particular release.

Just a theory, but it is one possible explanation that fits the facts.


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## MalibuRacing (Mar 2, 2007)

First, let me state I'm a happy customer especially since I now have HD locals.  

I have had no issues with my HR20, but the HR21 is a different story. It has been slow and buggy from day one. Now I'm experiencing the chattering hard drive, which is VERY annoying in our bedroom. Hopefully these issues will be addressed at some point soon. I would have to believe that D* is taking these issues seriously, especially the slow/lagging menus and guides. Especially, since E* is running TV commericials talking about D*'s "inferior" equipment that has a slow menu system and other issues compared to their equipment. I certainly hope that commercial is getting D* attention....


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## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

Steve said:


> One possible explanation for you seeing what you're seeing and others who post here are not seeing could be that many of us are CE'ers, who don't stay on a particular NR release long enough to see any problems that may crop up after extended use. We test the heck out of it for a week, and then move on to the next beta release over the week-end.
> 
> Another thing we do, because we d/l each weekend, is reboot the receivers at least once a week, which also may have a bearing on the long-term stability of a particular release.
> 
> Just a theory, but it is one possible explanation that fits the facts.


Steve, I like your theory. The CE'ers clearly tend to have a more positive view of the HR2x's performance. I think there are some social/psychological reasons why beta testers might view the software they test though rose colored glasses. However, I think both your points have merit.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

dreadlk said:


> I did some checking also and I was also told that Directv gets some of the most complaints of any company. Mostly about peoples Credit Cards being held hostage. What is alarming is that the Resolution rate for Directv is almost Zero while even lowly Dishnetwork has a high resolution rate. IOW I think D* does not give a rats ass if people are complaining to the BBB.


And yet, the money I send them every month seems to work perfectly. Usually in excess of $200 and never a complaint from D*. I find it truly amazing how well their accounting department functions, compared to, say, Verizon.

They worry so much about "Theft of services" and yet don't seem to care about "Services not provided for paying customers" a bit. Basic functions of a DVR are to record and playback the programs as broadcast, not to throw in audio dropouts, heavy pixellations, video dropouts, etc.

Rich


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## markrubi (Oct 12, 2006)

Here is what I have noticed since my 2 HR20's got the update with Double Play. 

Hard drive thrashing and very loud. Playback of recorded shows will hiccup and pixelate at times. Usually when the thrashing occurs.


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## mcbeevee (Sep 18, 2006)

I've had good luck with my 3 HR20's over the past few years, but I still believe it would be a good move for Directv to build a basic HD-DVR for just watching/recording HD programs. I would imagine the performance would be better without all the "bells & whistles" of the current HD-DVR.


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

TimoHT said:


> I don't disagree with your statement (above) and experience. I have not lost faith in DirecTV and have been a user and advocate for more than 10 years.
> 
> What I object to is instances where a poster has not personally experienced the severe problems present for many of us since the last s/w release - and - that poster then says or implies that things are really ok and any problems are minor.


I agree with your sentiments completely.

Anyone who thinks and/or says that things are really ok and any/all problems are minor is either illiterate or mentally challenged. Anyone who thinks and/or says that things have never been fixed and that significant progress has not been made over the 3 years with these boxes, suffers from the same issues. (I'm really trying to be funny here, so don't take me literally).

In other words, the two extremes are not well thought through and represent the hysterical and hyperbolic (as I referred to in an earlier post).

There are serious issues to be fixed, let's get to it and drop the drama.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Thanks for all the input - good and bad.

For those of you that said this was worthless and that we don't have inside info on what they are doing...

I agree it is worthless to most but I do think it shows generally how at least those that frequent these forums feel about what's going on. From the numbers as of today it looks like there are pretty big group of people not happy.

If you read the poll it says "Do *you* think that DirecTV will ever....". I wasn't looking for a company policy - just general thoughts.

I voted that they are working on it - but hardware limitations prevent them from completely fixing the issues - as did many others. Maybe this is the case - maybe not.

I'm still ready to eat my words if they do fix at least the big problems but I've just about run out of hope. I have been sticking to my knitting and have been as patient as I can but from my perspective little has changed in the 'bug fix' category since the day mine were installed. Those of you that bought in on day 1 with the HR20 have seen huge improvements and have less problems because no-doubt the HR20's are better receivers than the others and you know how they 'used' to be. For me - in the last 15 months or so - not much has changed. I have had people tell me the fix is coming soon for over a year.

I'm hoping the next soon-to-be-released update improves the speed and at least makes the remote respond. Also - for the sake of those that have lost everything because of the 'lost capacity' problem I hope that is fixed right away. Nothing worse than buying into all this and then still missing things you recorded because of screw up in the DVR.

Here's to hoping things improve quickly!


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

mcbeevee said:


> I've had good luck with my 3 HR20's over the past few years, but I still believe it would be a good move for Directv to build a basic HD-DVR for just watching/recording HD programs. I would imagine the performance would be better without all the "bells & whistles" of the current HD-DVR.


You wouldn't believe how many posts have echoed your post. I agree wholeheartedly.

Rich


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

rich584 said:


> I've written several times that I think the TS has problems that are probably not the HRs fault, since I don't have them and the one 22 that I had was as fast and responsive as any 21 that I've had. I agree with your conclusion that he'll never be satisfied, but I'm beginning to think that there is some merit to his claims.
> 
> Rich


Thanks, I think...

I agree with you both that "he'll never be satisfied" but I'll be a heck-of-a-lot closer if/when I push a button on the remote and my HR22 responds quickly!

As far as 'merit to my claims' I think the 100's of posts here over the last few months give my claims merit. The latest poll has 'speed them up' and 'make the remote work' as by far and away the most desired changes to the HR boxes.

I may never be happy but you'll here a lot less *****ing from me if they can fix those two issues!


----------



## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> Thanks, I think...
> 
> I agree with you both that "he'll never be satisfied" but I'll be a heck-of-a-lot closer if/when I push a button on the remote and my HR22 responds quickly!
> 
> ...


There is a very good chance the remote issues are a function of overall speed. By that I mean, the box is busy doing things and is unable to promptly respond to remote commands. I've seen it many times, on three different models. Something(s) are stealing too many processing cycles, and they are *not* mandatory at the time. Read as: this is tweakable in the firmware.

All I can say on this forum is that you have every reason to be optimistic that both issues will improve dramatically.


----------



## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

Hasan:

No disrespect, but why is the fix for the HR2x's always "just around the corner," in a CE release posters can hint at but can never talk about directly. I have been hearing similar promises/hints/suggestions from various posters on this board since I got my HR21 about 18 months ago.

Let me also ask another direct question. Did you think 034C (the beta release with Double Play) was too slow when it was a beta, or did you think it was great at the time it was a beta? It seems to me that each beta (that will become National Releases "soon") is touted as better than sliced bread, when many of the NR's have serious problems and rarely (if ever) fix major bugs like slow speed, remote key bounce, CIG, etc.) That is a pattern that seems to repeat with each successive NR.

IMO, When a computing device is still searching for a fix to basic problems via software upgrades three years after release, it's time to seriously think about upgrading your hardware and your software.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

Mike Greer said:


> I voted that they are working on it - but hardware limitations prevent them from completely fixing the issues - as did many others. Maybe this is the case - maybe not.


 I have been doing Electronic Engineering for most of my life, in the early days I worked a lot with ML code and proto boards. One thing I can tell you is that it does not take this long from a software standpoint to get something working unless your battling hardware limitations. IMO the engineers at Directv are desperately trying to add features to seriously underpowered hardware. Hats off to them because they have had some success but in the end they really need a new DVR with twice the CPU and GPU speed plus more Ram etc.


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## Movieman (May 9, 2009)

Nicholsen said:


> Hasan:
> 
> N*o disrespect, but why is the fix for the HR2s always "just around the corner," in a CE release posters can hint at but can never talk about directly. I have been hearing similar promises/hints/suggestions from various posters on this board since I got my HR21 about 18 months ago.*
> 
> ...


To your first highlight. Im not sure if you registered in the CE forum (free BTW) but we do have rules we have to follow. To your second highlight not everything in the CE makes it to NR. Many things are tested and dont make the NR but continue to be tested. Like any code, it can be released in pieces while continuing to test the rest of the code. Saying that something is coming soon isnt designed to be a tease but what the CE program is actively and always doing. Again, since I dont know if your in the CE section or not I would be unaware of you are seeing whats being tested and posted in that particular forum.  With that said. It is almost certain (since I dont work for Directv) that they actively reading and doing with they can to make the receiver better.


----------



## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

Nicholsen said:


> Hasan:
> 
> No disrespect, but why is the fix for the HR2s always "just around the corner," in a CE release posters can hint at but can never talk about directly.


Because that's as far as the rules let any of us go. I found all releases slow compared to my very recent experiences. That's as much as I'm going to say, and I wouldn't have even said that were it not for the apocalyptic nature of some of the posts. All I'm saying is that there is very good reason to hope that the speed issue will be successfully addressed.

If that isn't worth anything to you based on past performance, fine, I can't change that, nor do I have any desire to do so. For those that are mired down with speed issues (and I have two boxes that fit that description), I merely wanted to point out that it doesn't look like a dead end to me, based on my most recent experiences, and that's all I'm going to say, as I've probably already said too much.

The reason you see some allusions and hints is that watching people stew in their own juices is not a lot of fun (at least for me), and giving those people some hope that the issue might be eventually resolved is warranted, while the specifics and details are not (permitted).


----------



## MIKE0616 (Dec 13, 2006)

Since all the folks who are using the CE think there is nothing wrong with the NR, why not load it up, live with it for a couple of weeks and come back. If you still think there are not a boatload of problems, I would question whether or not you can find your own as..... errrr... head!  

The brrrrrrrrrrrrrpppppppppp problem was introduced by D* a couple of years ago in a NR (did not exist before then), the slowwwwwwwwwww remote "feature" was added in 34c, as were several others. 

While adding new features that actually work is nice, getting old bugs out of the software would be even more desirable, to me.


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## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

dreadlk said:


> I have been doing Electronic Engineering for most of my life, in the early days I worked a lot with ML code and proto boards. One thing I can tell you is that it does not take this long from a software standpoint to get something working unless your battling hardware limitations. IMO the engineers at Directv are desperately trying to add features to seriously underpowered hardware. Hats off to them because they have had some success but in the end they really need a new DVR with twice the CPU and GPU speed plus more Ram etc.


+1 I think twice as big isn't enough.

I'd also like to see them switch to vxWorks instead of Linux. It is better at this and has lots of tools to help them troubleshoot problems. That won't happen, though, because of cost and time needed to port everything over.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

bobcamp1 said:


> +1 I think twice as big isn't enough.
> 
> I'd also like to see them switch to vxWorks instead of Linux. It is better at this and has lots of tools to help them troubleshoot problems. That won't happen, though, because of cost and time needed to port everything over.


Using the arguments of folks who think DIRECTV is taking too long .. How exactly would switching to vxWorks actually speed up the improvements?


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## gully_foyle (Jan 18, 2007)

dreadlk said:


> I have been doing Electronic Engineering for most of my life, in the early days I worked a lot with ML code and proto boards. One thing I can tell you is that it does not take this long from a software standpoint to get something working unless your battling hardware limitations. IMO the engineers at Directv are desperately trying to add features to seriously underpowered hardware. Hats off to them because they have had some success but in the end they really need a new DVR with twice the CPU and GPU speed plus more Ram etc.


One can also have an original software design that was never intended to be stretched this far. Several times (e.g. DLB) they have changed basic structures, but doing that often, and maintaining any stability, is difficult to impossible.

Seems like both hardware and software are getting close to the limits. TIme for a new framework.

As for someone else's idea of changing the HR2x RTOS at this time, well, you just gotta be kidding.


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## gully_foyle (Jan 18, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> Using the arguments of folks who think DIRECTV is taking too long .. How exactly would switching to vxWorks actually speed up the improvements?


Breaking everything usually isn't a speedup.


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

bobcamp1 said:


> +1 I think twice as big isn't enough.
> 
> I'd also like to see them switch to vxWorks instead of Linux. It is better at this and has lots of tools to help them troubleshoot problems. That won't happen, though, because of cost and time needed to port everything over.


I got a laugh from this one!

Just last month, at my place of work, we decided to switch our subsystem OS from vxWorks to Linux. After 6 years, our developers were fed up with vxWorks and ready for a change.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

gully_foyle said:


> One can also have an original software design that was never intended to be stretched this far. Several times (e.g. DLB) they have changed basic structures, but doing that often, and maintaining any stability, is difficult to impossible.
> 
> Seems like both hardware and software are getting close to the limits. TIme for a new framework.
> ...


We saw that with TiVo. Their DB didn't scale very well to 300 channels of guide data--even after 7 years. They rebuilt everything and it worked.

On the other hand, DIRECTV is learning and making many improvements under the hood. Some of which are probably specifically to improve performance or otherwise improve the architecture.

(We already know about a db change they've investigated...) 

And the developers I've met are all about a great DVR experience. It will continue to get better. 

Cheers,
Tom


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## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

Movieman said:


> To your first highlight. Im not sure if you registered in the CE forum (free BTW) but we do have rules we have to follow. To your second highlight not everything in the CE makes it to NR. Many things are tested and dont make the NR but continue to be tested. Like any code, it can be released in pieces while continuing to test the rest of the code. Saying that something is coming soon isnt designed to be a tease but what the CE program is actively and always doing. Again, since I dont know if your in the CE section or not I would be unaware of you are seeing whats being tested and posted in that particular forum.  With that said. It is almost certain (since I dont work for Directv) that they actively reading and doing with they can to make the receiver better.


1. My point is that the ongoing CE "teases" are not helpful. It seems as if certain CE posters hint that every new NR is going to be much better, then (often) the disillusionment sets in shortly after it is released. I have now seen this dynamic several times, and think that is where we are now.

2. I am among the small group that thinks the HR2x will never actually be "fixed," and the focus is on new hardware in the wings. That is pure speculation, but I think this product is sufficiently troubled that a big change is called for.


----------



## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

hasan said:


> There is a very good chance the remote issues are a function of overall speed. By that I mean, the box is busy doing things and is unable to promptly respond to remote commands. I've seen it many times, on three different models. Something(s) are stealing too many processing cycles, and they are *not* mandatory at the time. Read as: this is tweakable in the firmware.
> 
> All I can say on this forum is that you have every reason to be optimistic that both issues will improve dramatically.


Hasan:

If they really are tweakable, it would be nice if they did that work before they sent it out to the long suffering users.


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## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

gully_foyle said:


> One can also have an original software design that was never intended to be stretched this far. Several times (e.g. DLB) they have changed basic structures, but doing that often, and maintaining any stability, is difficult to impossible.
> 
> Seems like both hardware and software are getting close to the limits. TIme for a new framework.


+1


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> We saw that with TiVo. Their DB didn't scale very well to 300 channels of guide data--even after 7 years. They rebuilt everything and it worked.


Exactly right. And that was on a box with a 167mhz CPU and 64mb of RAM (I think some later HR10's came with 128mb RAM). I'm pretty sure the HR21/22/23's have a 600mhz CPU and 512mb RAM.


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

Steve said:


> Exactly right. And that was on a box with a 167mhz CPU and 64mb of RAM (I think some later HR10's came with 128mb RAM). I'm pretty sure the HR21/22/23's have a 600mhz CPU and 512mb RAM.


 300mhz IIRC.. broadcom site lists the chips.. and we're shoveing 4x the data around for HD..


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

houskamp said:


> 300mhz IIRC.. broadcom site lists the chips.. and we're shoveing 4x the data around for HD..


Actually with the HR21 being predominantly MPEG-4, isn't it only handling about 2/3 the HD data of the HR10, which was only MPEG-2 HD?

You're right about the 300mhz. So the HR21/22/23's have double the processor speed and 4x-8x the memory. Still a much more capable h/w platform than the HR10's.


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## ub1934 (Dec 30, 2005)

Doug Brott said:


> Yes.


_Yes with the new TiVo DVR , i hope _


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## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

Steve said:


> Exactly right. And that was on a box with a 167mhz CPU and 64mb of RAM (I think some later HR10's came with 128mb RAM). I'm pretty sure the HR21/22/23's have a 600mhz CPU and 512mb RAM.


I think the TiVO software engineers must have produced some very clean, fast code to make the HR10-250 work as well as it does, given its hardware limitations. The current HR2x series needs to be retired for hardware twice as fast.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Nicholsen said:


> The current HR2x series needs to be retired for hardware twice as fast.


:rolling:!rolling:lol:

The existing processors and memory are *more than sufficient *to handle quality MPEG-4, and in most cases do just that. The rest lies in how the firmware is coded, and that is in "refine, improve, and tweak" mode.

Unless you look great in purple....suggest you don't hold your breath for that...it ain't gonna happen, nor does it need to.


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## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

As I recall, you think the HR2x isn't slow, and that 034C improved the speed.

This is what you had to say on 10/4 about the new NR, 034C--



> Thats totally contrary to what most posters are saying - speed is improved & less problems since 34C went out.


My HR21 has been slow since I got it. Now it is even slower, painfully slooowwww. In the meantime, D* continued to add all kinds of features to the box which seem to make it slower.

I see no sign the programmers on this project are going to pull a rabbit out of their hat. Faster and easier to just phase in faster hardware.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Nicholsen said:


> As I recall you think the HR2x isn't slow, and that 034C improved the speed.
> 
> This is what you had to say on 10/4 about the new NR, 934C--
> 
> ...


Why do some posters insist on repeating themselves (based on incorrect information incidently) in multiple threads on the same topic?

1) There is no version 934C...there is a 034C version on the HR2x series HD DVRs....

2) That version was extensively tested, and did NOT show the issues at the time that have apparently appeared since in some DVR models 

3) Repeating the same whine endlessly accomplishes nothing - this is the same basic thing posted in 2 other threads now by the smae poster 

The premise in the heading of this thread alone (that DirecTV wouldn't?) fix things is lame on its own, without fertilizing it with manure.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Nicholsen said:


> As I recall you think the HR2x isn't slow, and that 034C improved the speed.
> 
> This is what you had to say on 10/4 about the new NR, 934C--
> 
> ...


Faster to phase in faster hardware??? Phase it into 1-5M (guessing, I don't know actual numbers) existing receivers? At $200-$300 a pop just for the hardware? I don't see that one happening. 

As for signs? Well I'm not sure what you are looking at, it is quite possible you haven't seen anything concrete yet. Fair enough, I can understand that.

I do know DIRECTV is working on performance. It is a high priority and high urgency. (Other features sometimes also have a high urgency in any development project, pushing aside other items...)

All in all, I'm pleased with the direction, and I hope you will be too.

Cheers,
Tom


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## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Why do some posters insist on repeating themselves (based on incorrect information incidently) in multiple threads on the same topic?
> 
> 1) There is no version 934C...there is a 034C version on the HR2x series HD DVRs....
> 
> ...


1. My bad. Typo corrected in original post. By the way, you spelled same as "smae" in your post. Get with it dude! Use the spell checker! 

2. You think the slowness magically appeared after the NR was released? Really?? You really expect people to believe that it was "extensively tested" before it was released and now these problems have just magically appeared??? I don't buy that.

3. Endless posting in response to all complaints that "the next NR is going to solve the problem" is wearisome.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Nicholsen said:


> 2. You think the slowness magically appeared after the NR was released? Really?? You really expect people to believe that it was "extensively tested before it was released" and now this problems have just magically appeared??? I don't buy that.


Believe what you will....but the fact is that 034C was tested with the same process and most participants as previous versions, and if the problem was detected - think about this for just one second - it would not have been pushed out.

As Mr. Robertson confirmed...there is work underway to resolve issues that have been reported, and they have a high priority to get done.

If you choose not to accept that information, so be it.


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## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

Tom -- I don't suggest they pull the HR2x's. I think you will see a super box (HR3x)? with a lot more horsepower, that will be phased in as the old units die or power users demand an upgrade.

By the way, I appreciate the civility of your post. 

Cheers!


----------



## Movieman (May 9, 2009)

Nicholsen said:


> Tom -- I don't suggest they pull the HR2x's. I think you will see a super box (HR3x)? with a lot more horsepower, that will be phased in as the old units die or power users demand an upgrade.
> 
> By the way, I appreciate the civility of your post.
> 
> Cheers!


The post about the next NR fixing a lot of these isnt meant to just be a prank. It will be vigorously tested to make sure in its release it fixes as much of the problems on the current NR as possible. Like anything future NR's will continue to be improvements unless something happens which is always possible. Although I do think its hard/impossible to make everyone happy.


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## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Believe what you will....but the fact is that 034C was tested with the same process and most participants as previous versions, and if the problem was detected - think about this for just one second - it would not have been pushed out.
> 
> As Mr. Robertson confirmed...there is work underway to resolve issues that have been reported, and they have a high priority to get done.
> 
> If you choose not to accept that information, so be it.


I think you seriously discount the pressure to get double play out the door for the NFL season. It seems equally logical to speculate that 034C was known to be slow, but a decision was made to release it to get it in place for the NFL season, and fix the speed problems later.

Just a thought.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Movieman said:


> The post about the next NR fixing a lot of these isnt meant to just be a prank. It will be vigorously tested to make sure in its release it fixes as much of the problems on the current NR as possible. Like anything future NR's will continue to be improvements unless something happens which is always possible. Although I do think its hard/impossible to make everyone happy.


*All *very well said points.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Nicholsen said:


> I think you seriously discount the pressure to get double play out the door for the NFL season. It seems equally logical to speculate that 034C was known to be slow, but a decision was made to release it to get it in place for the NFL season, and fix the speed problems later.
> 
> Just a thought.


I can understand how one might come to that conclusion...and respect your opinion on it.

That said, as several folks have indicated...it was extensively tested through multiple cycles of testing prior to release, and the symptoms pertaining to speed did not surface at that time...as they appear to have since.

Every new firmware release pushed out to the general user population goes through repeated and multiple cycles of testing prior to distribution.


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## Scott Kocourek (Jun 13, 2009)

After reading through this thread I see there are some out there that are otherwise rational people who have been convinced that D* sent out a bad NR on purpose, they knew it was bad, but thought it was the best they can do. 

People need to take a step back and take a breath.

I am not saying it is not frustrating when there are problems with the NR, but it is not a personal attack on you, nor was it on purpose, it was unforseen. When there is a fix, will you assume all of the programmers who wrote the 034C were fired and magically replaced by someone who instantly fixed the problem? Highly unlikely.

When the new NR comes out I am sure there will be people who do not like it, because there is always a segment of society who is not happy unless they are complaining. 

So until the new NR is released, report your problems and maybe someday your HR will work the way you want it to.


----------



## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

Scott --

My comments are complete speculation. I don't have any inside info or direct info of any kind. I am simply pointing out that D* may have been under some pressure, from ST subs and perhaps from the NFL (again idle speculation) to get Double Play out the door on or around 9/1. 

I don't think a programming group ever wants to releases unstable code, but I do believe unstable and poorly tested code goes out all the time (in many industries) to meet artificial "deadlines" and marketing needs. The coders are often driven crazy by the demands of the marketing department. 

I think my idle speculation is as good a "story" as the report that code was exhaustively tested and worked perfectly until it was released. It doesn't mean anybody in the programming group did anything wrong. Afer all, this is just software to watch TV with. FWIW - I like Double Play.

Ship it and fix it seems pretty common in the software world (outside of nuclear power and medical devices). If you ever read the fine print on most software licenses, it seems to specially warn you not to assume that the software actually works! :lol::lol:


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

scottandregan said:


> After reading through this thread I see there are some out there that are otherwise rational people who have been convinced that D* sent out a bad NR on purpose, they knew it was bad, but thought it was the best they can do.


The shame of it is, D* obviously didn't know what would happen. I can't believe that they'd do this intentionally. What would be the point?

This isn't the first time a "bad" NR was released. This one seems to be taking longer to fix. I think I'll always think of this release as the "DBL NR".

Rich


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## MIKE0616 (Dec 13, 2006)

Movieman said:


> The post about the next NR fixing a lot of these isnt meant to just be a prank. It will be vigorously tested to make sure in its release it fixes as much of the problems on the current NR as possible. Like anything future NR's will continue to be improvements unless something happens which is always possible. Although I do think its hard/impossible to make everyone happy.


This is a repeat of what D* has said with every software release over the past couple of years, that the next one will contain all the fixes, be well tested, etc.  And after so many, we are supposed the believe them this time because of?????


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

MIKE0616 said:


> This is a repeat of what D* has said with every software release over the past couple of years, that the next one will contain all the fixes, be well tested, etc.  And after so many, we are supposed the believe them this time because of?????


The results in 34C have been considerably different than most other National release versions.

As several folks have shared before....yes...extensive testing and multiple cycles of testing goes into these before they are ever release.

Put simply...34C's "performance flaws on some HD DVRs" were undetected previously, until they showed up when distributed as a National Release.

Having seen the various tests done for several years, 34C was indeed more of a fluke than a common occurrence.

Keep the faith.


----------



## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> The results in 34C have been considerably different than most other National release versions.
> 
> As several folks have shared before....yes...extensive testing and multiple cycles of testing goes into these before they are ever release.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry that flies in the face of what I observed. In 02/08 when I got my HR21-100 it was tolerably slow, but didn't skip-to-end and the remote response was fine. But then the 'updates' came, and all that started happening. It wasn't just 34C, the other updates either didn't change things perceptibly, or changed them for the worse.

They did add features, but they didn't help basic operation.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

lparsons21 said:


> I'm sorry that flies in the face of what I observed. In 02/08 when I got my HR21-100 it was tolerably slow, but didn't skip-to-end and the remote response was fine. But then the 'updates' came, and all that started happening. It wasn't just 34C, the other updates either didn't change things perceptibly, or changed them for the worse.
> 
> They did add features, but they didn't help basic operation.


Sorry to hear about your HR21-100.

Certainly different units have received different updates and seen different results from time to time.

Part of that is the differences in the "Maturity level" of the units (and the corresponding firmware).

The HR20-700, for example, seems to have overall lessor issues in performance...but then its been out for 3+ years and the firmware is quite "mature" at this point. There have been many revisions and improvements over that timeframe, while also adding some of the newest capabilities.

The HR21 series is newer, and the HR22 & HR23 series much newer yet.

Unfortunately, the firmware is not identical in all the units. If it were, this would help the situation.

Over the past year or so, they have been working to get the main firmware content "closer together", but they are still different...therefore, so are the results.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

If you based opinions solely on what you read here in the various threads and polls, it is very obvious that the HR20 is the best of breed. And as you note, that extra maturity is probably the reason why. The HR20 is around 3+ years out now? It should be mature.

But the HR21, 22, 23 are based on that same original design, so it should be reasonable to expect them to run at least as well if not better. Especially considering what was taken out, like the 2 OTA tuners that the HR20 has.

I'm one of those that believe that there were mistakes made in the early stages of the design. I firmly believe that the boxes are underpowered for doing what they want them to do, the way they want them to do it. I don't know if it is a misstep in the firmware/software design or something in the HW itself. But it doesn't matter.

I hope that those that are sticking with D* through this do get to see a very large improvement in the performance of these HRs, there is a lot to like about how they interface to the human operator. For me, I'm an impatient man and moved on. But I'm interested in watching this develop and hope that it all comes out in the wash, so to speak.


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## Movieman (May 9, 2009)

MIKE0616 said:


> This is a repeat of what D* has said with every software release over the past couple of years, that the next one will contain all the fixes, be well tested, etc.  And after so many, we are supposed the believe them this time because of?????


This would probably be the first NR that I have seen that had an issue as many have described. Indeed this NR had flaws that were not seen during testing but to say that every NR has had problems is not correct. Most of the complaints posted on here at least were about features not speed, remote response. etc. If your having issues with every single NR you are getting you may want to look into an equipment problem.

Keep a little faith (maybe hard) that the firmware is being tested as aggressively as possible to try and fix as many of the issues that are out there. Directv is realistic though, not everyone is going to be happy because the truth is most of those complaining would rather see new hardware than continued firmware updates. But I have say its good to see people voicing their problems and getting involved. Its important because although we typically dont represent the general Directv customer we still count.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

lparsons21 said:


> I'm one of those that believe that there were mistakes made in the early stages of the design. I firmly believe that the *boxes are underpowered *for doing what they want them to do, the way they want them to do it. I don't know if it is *a misstep in the firmware/software design *or something in the HW itself.


The HR21's have been out *more than a year *longer than the HR22 & HR23 series.

Since all are fundamentally the same internal content as the HR20 series, with only more advanced video, network, and other components inside...wondering how you came to the conclusion that they were "underpowered" somehow?

Firmware controls how the components are used, as well as to what degree of their performance they are presented.

The aging of the various levels of HR series DVRs parallels their firmware maturity, as well as degrees of reported issues overall.

I can even remember when the Tivo-based DVRs went through the same "maturing" process over several years. Numerous fixes were needed.

As the firmware evolves, and new capabilities are added...this also has the potential to introduce new anomalies or issues that have to be overcome. That is why a testing process exists prior to the firmware release to the mainstream user base - to minimize the impact.

Is it a perfect process. No.

Is it being improved over time. Yes.


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## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

Lets look at some reality based analysis based upon the poll that spawned this thread --

1. The poll reflects that roughly 68% of responders don't think the HR2x will be fixed.

2. The poll reflects that roughly 25% of responders don't think DirecTV is even working on a fix for the HR2x.

This sad showing appears to reflect a deep disatisfaction among the users. 

At some point you simply have to wake up and smell the coffee.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Polls are only as good as the sample size. The best we can say is 68% of the people who choose to answer the poll are dissatisfied. 

I'm not discounting your dissatisfaction. However, as much as I'd love to say that we speak for the 18-million-plus subscriber base, we don't.


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## sriram (Apr 4, 2006)

It takes me about 3 seconds for the guide to appear from when I press the button on the remote (HR21-700). I don't really use the skip forward button because there's no telling when it will decide to skip itself all the way to the end. These are not hardware issues as my calculator processor should be fast enough to do the very basic stuff like this with the right software.

After 3+ years I have no confidence in DirecTV software people to "fix" anything. I would suggest they start from scratch and work on getting the very basic stuff working before adding any other gimmicks.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

sriram said:


> After 3+ years I have no confidence in DirecTV software people to "fix" anything. I would suggest they start from scratch and work on getting the very basic stuff working before adding any other gimmicks.


Do you think this will bring the "problems" to a resolution more quickly?


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> The HR21's have been out *more than a year *longer than the HR22 & HR23 series.
> 
> Since all are fundamentally the same internal content as the HR20 series, with only more advanced video, network, and other components inside...wondering how you came to the conclusion that they were "underpowered" somehow?
> 
> ...


Here's what leads me to believe the inherent design was underpowered. When I decided to switch to D* in 02/08, I did a quick look and ensured that I would get a HR20 because of the 2 OTA tuners. But when I got it and found out that only 2 tuners could be used at a time, I thought then and still think, that was #1 a dumb design decision, and #2 spoke to the issue of did they have enough oomph to begin with.

Over time, nothing I've seen in the updates has caused me to change those thoughts. After going through 4 HR20s for the error 771(?) on tuner 2 issue and getting an HR21, I was pretty happy. The speed of the HR21 at that time was a bit slower than the HR20, which itself was slower than the E* equipment that I had previously used. But it was acceptable. It took remote commands properly and didn't skip to end. Those problems were for the udates that started coming to introduce.

I'll stand by my opinion. The boxes are underpowered for what they want them to do. You may disagree, but you cannot show me anything that will disprove my opinion, an opinion based on more than 40 years of electronics experience ranging from radars of all sorts, audio/video equipment and computers.

I don't think they can make significant improvement in speed with the existing hardware, although they may get it back to what it was a little less than 2 years ago, and get rid of the remote response and skip-to-end.

To make a significant improvement will take new hardware with new designs, imo. Unfortunately, that takes longer than firmware updates.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Your expectations are confusing:


lparsons21 said:


> Here's what leads me to believe the inherent design was underpowered. When I decided to switch to D* in 02/08, I did a *quick look *and ensured that I would get a HR20 because of the 2 OTA tuners. But when I got it and found out that only 2 tuners could be used at a time, I thought then and still think, *that was #1 a dumb design decision*, and *#2 spoke to the issue of did they have enough oomph to begin with*.


Interesting....not sure what you expected....as when the HR20 came out...having 4 tuners which also allowed you the ability to use any 2 to record, view them, or use or both to record at any given time actually *exceeded the capabilities* of *most* of the HD DVRs available at that time.


> Over time, nothing I've seen in the updates has caused me to change those thoughts. After going through 4 HR20s for the error 771(?) on tuner 2 issue and getting an HR21, I was pretty happy. The speed of the HR21 at that time was a bit slower than the HR20, which itself was slower than the E* equipment that I had previously used. But it was acceptable. It took remote commands properly and didn't skip to end. Those problems were for the udates that started coming to introduce.


So the addition of all the features over the past 2-3 years, as well as the known improvements in the operation of the guide, menu, user options, audio, and other capabilities have all been insignificant apparently?


> I'll stand by my opinion. The boxes are underpowered for what they want them to do. You may disagree, but you cannot show me anything that will disprove my opinion, an opinion based on more than 40 years of electronics experience ranging from radars of all sorts, audio/video equipment and computers.


I have 25+ years experience working with electronics and PC's, as well as other processor-based devices like DVRs. That said, you are certainly very much entitled to your opinion.

None of your statements, on the other hand, *substantiate* the claim to be "underpowered", except that it is your *opinion*, which you're entitled to. Others will likely disagree as well.


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## Movieman (May 9, 2009)

Many of us that are on this forum and others tend to be more of the tech customers than the typical customer base that all these carriers have. I have noticed that everyone on here wants the hardware to be pushed to its peak them work flawless even though features are constantly being introduced. Remember the original function of what a DVR is supposed to be. Look at the Directv DVR and then look at other competitors. You may think the others are faster or more reliable but everyday I meet people that are changing over cause they like my speed and prefer the features and services I have over their carriers. We will have to all agree or disagree on which are the best DVR. The main thing to take out of this thread and others is that Directv is listening and is trying to get out a newer NR that will make customers happy but even with the next NR i see the complaints hanging around until another STB is announced.

Hopefully though the next firmware is being tested enough to satisfy the complaints.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Your expectations are confusing:
> 
> Interesting....not sure what you expected....as when the HR20 came out...having 4 tuners which also allowed you the ability to use any 2 to record, view them, or use or both to record at any given time actually *exceeded the capabilities* of *most* of the HD DVRs available at that time.
> 
> So the addition of all the features over the past 2-3 years, as well as the known improvements in the operation of the guide, menu, user options, audio, and other capabilities have all been insignificant apparently?


At the time, the only other HDDVR out there was E*'s top of the line, which had 3 tuners, all useable all the time. As D*'s top of the line, the HR20 should have been a step up and allowed for all tuners all the time. It was a mistake, imo, not to make it that way.

As to the other improvements and such over the last 2-3 years, I can only see what I have experience with, and that is from 02/08 through 10/09, and that was a few improvements that were very nice, but it seems that they were at the expense of the overall speed of operation and remote response, very basic operations. So basic that they should never have been allowed to fall to this level. And I didn't say they were insignificant, but I do say that at the expense of useability, how many of them get the credit they should?

I know of no other piece of equipment that gets this much negative attention as the HRs are getting right now. Certainly not anything I own or use.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

lparsons21 said:


> *I know of no other piece of equipment *that gets this much negative attention as the HRs are getting right now. Certainly not anything I own or use.


You might want to visit the Dish side of DBSTalk....and see what's posted about the various VIP models....enlightening......it might also change your mind...then again....


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> You might want to visit the Dish side of DBSTalk....and see what's posted about the various VIP models....enlightening......it might also change your mind...then again....


:lol: He has a 722 & loves it...because his works.  Just like myself, you, & others like our HR2x...because they work.

He also owns a HDDVD unit that had lots of complaints. :eek2:


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

sigma1914 said:


> :lol: He has a 722 & loves it...because his works.  Just like myself, you, & others like our HR2x...because they work.
> 
> He also owns a HDDVD unit that had lots of complaints. :eek2:


You are right, I do have a 722k and I do love it because it does exactly what it says it will and does it faster. But I wouldn't have it had my HR21 been even close to it in speed and remote response.

I'm glad that others here have HRs that work for them, my experience wasn't that good unfortunately. And the HR was the sole reason I left D* this month.

As to my HDDVD, well it was one of the very few models mfg'd before HDDVD bit the dust. It doesn't give me any problems and never has, but I don't use it very much either.

My PS3 does great! One of these days I might even play a game on it...


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> You might want to visit the Dish side of DBSTalk....and see what's posted about the various VIP models....enlightening......it might also change your mind...then again....


I've been on the Dish side and don't see anywhere near the issues coming up on the 722k, which is the model I have.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

lparsons21 said:


> I've been on the Dish side and don't see anywhere near the issues coming up on the 722k, which is the model I have.


Nope, no issues. 

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=162593 (9 page "discussion")
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=165051 (722 DVR - Reset issues)
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=166815 (722K no longer retains Guide Button/Popup preference through power cycle)
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=166516 (722 dropping signal on various satellites.)
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=154627 (OTA Timers - not firing and not showing in Daily schedule)


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

sigma1914 said:


> Nope, no issues.
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=162593 (9 page "discussion")
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=165051 (722 DVR - Reset issues)
> ...


Compared to what is going on with the HRs? That IS no issues! 

I have seen none on the 722k that are widespread, neither here nor in the 'other' forum that even come close to the level that is going on right now with the HRs.


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## Movieman (May 9, 2009)

lparsons21 said:


> I've been on the Dish side and don't see anywhere near the issues coming up on the 722k, which is the model I have.


Just curious since you posted earlier that you recently changed. Have you found that you have all the same services and features that you had/wanted or did you want the services and features that Dish has? Dont take into account programming as that is not really related to this discussion. I know that you say that their STB does what is advertises. In my opinion the HR2x and the H2x series do more than what they advertise.

Im more wondering what you had to give up or what you gained in the switch. You seem more of a tech person than just changing for Versus or a cheaper plan which is typically what I read on here as being a reason for leaving from one carrier over another. (regardless of the carrier)


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Guys .. This is not a VIP vs. HR2x thread .. let's keep it that way.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Movieman said:


> Just curious since you posted earlier that you recently changed. Have you found that you have all the same services and features that you had/wanted or did you want the services and features that Dish has? Dont take into account programming as that is not really related to this discussion. I know that you say that their STB does what is advertises. In my opinion the HR2x and the H2x series do more than what they advertise.
> 
> Im more wondering what you had to give up or what you gained in the switch. You seem more of a tech person than just changing for Versus or a cheaper plan which is typically what I read on here as being a reason for leaving from one carrier over another. (regardless of the carrier)


I actually don't use many of the 'services' provided from either, just the video from the various channels on a time delayed basis. So many of the features that D* added had little or no value to me. I liked the way that D* handles the recording functions better than E*'s approach, but that is about it.

I made the change after 34C came out, but had been pretty frustrated with the remote response and skip to end for quite some time. The overall sluggishness I could have lived with had those two not been such an irritant.

I didn't switch because of channels or any other issues as both services now have all the channels I'm interested in watching in HD. Well, almost... 

Dish still doesn't have my locals in HD, but supposedly next month is the 'magic' month for my DMA. In fact, it was because of that that I kept my D* service alive for a couple of months. But in the end, paying $46 a month to have the 2 locals I can't get as OTA and Deadwood on the 101 didn't make sense.

I follow and comment in these D* forums because I want both services to be their best so that competition keeps us consumers happier. Right now, I don't think D* is doing that with the HRs. Hopefully it will change.


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## Movieman (May 9, 2009)

Thanks for the reply. As for the OP. The pole looks like most think that the hardware is limited. It might very well be but I think it will get better over time. If the next NR comes out we will either have a lot of thank you posts or I told you so posts. Looking forward to either one.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Why do some posters insist on repeating themselves (based on incorrect information incidently) in multiple threads on the same topic?
> 
> ...Repeating the same whine endlessly accomplishes nothing - this is the same basic thing posted in 2 other threads now by the smae poster
> 
> The premise in the heading of this thread alone (that DirecTV wouldn't?) fix things is lame on its own, without fertilizing it with manure.


Seems you still have a serious issue of the pot calling the kettle black!

You keep saying the fix is coming... The HRs are not slow... The latest NR increased the speed... You say this over and over when the truth is smacking everyone in the face! Why do you get to repeat the same slanted comments over and over but others can not?:lol:

Maybe it is time for you to take a deep breath and step away from the keyboard!

Still hoping to eat my words... Just wish you would eat some of yours!


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## MIKE0616 (Dec 13, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Polls are only as good as the sample size. The best we can say is 68% of the people who choose to answer the poll are dissatisfied.
> 
> I'm not discounting your dissatisfaction. However, as much as I'd love to say that we speak for the 18-million-plus subscriber base, we don't.


and the roughly 20% that think there are NO problems whatsoever with the units? If you subtract the homers from that number, where do you think that comes in? Around 0%, IMO.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Movieman said:


> Thanks for the reply. As for the OP. The pole looks like most think that the hardware is limited. It might very well be but I think it will get better over time. If the next NR comes out we will either have a lot of thank you posts or I told you so posts. Looking forward to either one.


I know this is difficult for the Geeks on the forum to understand, but all a lot of us wanted when we made the switch from VCRs to DVRs was the same basic functions that VCRs had: Record reliably and playback those recordings reliably. The extra features were a bonus at first, two tuners, the ability to watch while recording, the fact that the DVRs were computers rather than recording machines (don't quite know how to put that), etc.

I don't think that the expansion of features has helped the HRs very much in performance and as a platform that people want to buy for the extra features. Most of just want a reliable recording and playback device. The hardware isn't that limited that it can't do this reliably, is it? Of course not.

Apps, DLBs, God knows what else is planned, but how many people care nationwide? And can more features be implemented without screwing the HRs up more than they are at this moment?

I've got computers that blow away the Apps, don't see any reason for DLBs, which I believe thoroughly screwed up this NR, and really don't care how "Robust" D* thinks the HRs are. Simply put, "Robust" they are not. Just a simple device that records and plays back reliably, is that too much to ask for? I guess it is, because I, and many others have been asking for that for almost three years now and I still don't see it.

I don't care about what TiVos did, I don't care about what Dish DVRs do, I send D* about $200 dollars a month and what do I and others get for our money? NRs that are sent forth without the proper testing? My money is "Robust", my HRs simply aren't. Does that sound like a quid pro quo? I'm not saying every NR causes problems, but some of them play hell with the HRs, that is an undeniable fact.

I like my HRs, I have no intention of going elsewhere for a provider, but if D* is gonna send out NRs, I do wish they'd test them thoroughly before they do. And please don't tell me that this NR was tested thoroughly before it was released.

Rich


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Let it be known that on October 19th, 2009 at 7:33 Mountain Time I agree 100% with Rich!


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Mike Greer said:


> Let it be known that on October 19th, 2009 at 7:33 Mountain Time I agree 100% with Rich!


About time. I'm not the enemy. 

Rich


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

rich584 said:


> [...] I like my HRs, I have no intention of going elsewhere for a provider, but if D* is gonna send out NRs, I do wish they'd test them thoroughly before they do. And please don't tell me that this NR was tested thoroughly before it was released.


It was tested thoroughly by those of us who volunteered to download the CE. E.g., the wife and I used it for our usual 20-30 hours of combined weekly TV viewing and it certainly felt like it was good to go. What we were unable to test, however, was how well it would continue to perform after 2-3 weeks of continuous use.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

MIKE0616 said:


> and the roughly 20% that think there are NO problems whatsoever with the units? If you subtract the homers from that number, where do you think that comes in? Around 0%, IMO.


Let's not insult other members or their opinions, thanks.


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## MIKE0616 (Dec 13, 2006)

rich584 said:


> I know this is difficult for the Geeks on the forum to understand, but all a lot of us wanted when we made the switch from VCRs to DVRs was the same basic functions that VCRs had: Record reliably and playback those recordings reliably. The extra features were a bonus at first, two tuners, the ability to watch while recording, the fact that the DVRs were computers rather than recording machines (don't quite know how to put that), etc.
> 
> I don't think that the expansion of features has helped the HRs very much in performance and as a platform that people want to buy for the extra features. Most of just want a reliable recording and playback device. The hardware isn't that limited that it can't do this reliably, is it? Of course not.
> 
> ...


:up: +1

My wife is most likely like most users of the HR products, she will never use the features that are added up and above being a basic DVR. However, when the recordings briiipppppp, you have to enter channel numbers like you are doing so with a broken thumb in order for them to work, etc. they are a cause for concern to her as "the DVRs did not do that the other day, what is wrong now?"

Saying 34c was thoroughly tested flies in the face of reality. Tested software does NOT contain of bugs like the channel changing slowdown. If it was thoroughly tested per D*'s standards, it looks like its past time for them to review their standards and implement some that actually work.


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## MIKE0616 (Dec 13, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Let's not insult other members or their opinions, thanks.


Maybe that should go both ways?


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## Barry in Conyers (Jan 14, 2008)

MIKE0616 said:


> Maybe that should go both ways?


No maybe about it.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

It should of course. My request applies to everyone here. Your post was simply the one that caught my eye.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

rich584 said:


> About time. I'm not the enemy.
> 
> Rich


Nope - you're not the enemy! My HR22s are the enemy - and I think they just may have this war won!


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Steve said:


> It was tested thoroughly by those of us who volunteered to download the CE. E.g., the wife and I used it for our usual 20-30 hours of combined weekly TV viewing and it certainly felt like it was good to go. What we were unable to test, however, was how well it would continue to perform after 2-3 weeks of continuous use.


The problems began when I started watching shows at about eight o'clock the morning that the NR downloaded at about three thirty that same morning. Five 20-700s that had no problems the day before and suddenly were nearly unwatchable. Did anybody test the 20-700s?

Rich


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

rich584 said:


> The problems began when I started watching shows at about eight o'clock the morning that the NR downloaded at about three thirty that same morning. Five 20-700s that had no problems the day before and suddenly were nearly unwatchable. Did anybody test the 20-700s?
> 
> Rich


All applicable models getting the updated firmware, including the HR20-700's were tested through multiple cycles.

Feel free to call the Ripley's people to confirm.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> All applicable models getting the updated firmware, including the HR20-700's were tested through multiple cycles.


Got some explanation for my five 20-700s other than that? That sounds like the answers I get at my car dealer's service center. I should say "used to get". A simple lawsuit stopped that nonsense.



> Feel free to call the Ripley's people to confirm.


I have no idea what or who "Ripley's people" means.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

rich584 said:


> Five 20-700s that had no problems the day before and suddenly were nearly unwatchable. Did anybody test the 20-700s?


I know I did. I have five of them as well. Only difference between you and me may be that you "jumped" from one NR to another, while I "tip-toed" from one CE to another. IOW, mine was just an incremental upgrade from the prior release I was running.

If so, then a simple reboot _might _provide you with the same performance I saw that first week, for at least a week. After 7 days, I stopped using it to d/l the next CE.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

rich584 said:


> Got some explanation for my five 20-700s other than that? That sounds like the answers I get at my car dealer's service center. I should say "used to get". A simple lawsuit stopped that nonsense.
> 
> I have no idea what or who "Ripley's people" means.


Sorry...I can only account for 2 other HR20-700 units being tested before your quintuplets got 34C. 

There were, on the other hand...numerous others, as always.

Clearly this took some time to gel/surface/appear/propogate...or whatever.


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## RACJ2 (Aug 2, 2008)

rich584 said:


> Got some explanation for my five 20-700s other than that? That sounds like the answers I get at my car dealer's service center. I should say "used to get". A simple lawsuit stopped that nonsense.
> 
> *I have no idea what or who "Ripley's people" means.*


You know... Ripleys *believe it or not*!


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Steve said:


> I know I did. I have five of them as well. Only difference between you and me may be that you "jumped" from one NR to another, while I "tip-toed" from one CE to another. IOW, mine was just an incremental upgrade from the prior release I was running.
> 
> If so, then a simple reboot _might _provide you with the same performance I saw that first week, for at least a week. After 7 days, I stopped using it to d/l the next CE.


Not only did I reboot them, I did everything else I could think of and finally ended up unplugging them for twelve hours. That's the only thing that worked.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Clearly this took some time to gel/surface/appear/propogate...or whatever.


Five hours? C'mon.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

RACJ2 said:


> You know... Ripleys *believe it or not*!


Even the virtually useless Service Manager at my dealer didn't have the nerve to come up with something like that.

Rich


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

rich584 said:


> Not only did I reboot them, I did everything else I could think of and finally ended up unplugging them for twelve hours. That's the only thing that worked.


Then I'd have to guess it's because my CE to CE upgrade was more "gradual" than your NR to NR upgrade. E.g., mine may have preserved the previous week's GUIDE data, while yours may have had to be wiped and re-built from scratch. Not saying that was it, but maybe other things like that.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Steve said:


> Then I'd have to guess it's because my CE to CE upgrade was more "gradual" than your NR to NR upgrade. E.g., mine may have preserved the previous week's GUIDE data, while yours may have had to be wiped and re-built from scratch. Not saying that was it, but maybe other things like that.


Certainly was something and it was instantaneous. I have no doubt that had I been up at three o'clock when that beast downloaded the issues would have been right there.

Rich


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

rich584 said:


> Five hours? C'mon.


I'm sorry, Rich, but this comment and others in the same vein besmirch the volunteer CE testers here at DBSTalk who spend countless hours of their own time downloading the latest software release, looking for and documenting those issues, and submitting reports to DIRECTV. The CE cycle that preceded the current NR was extremely lengthy, and a simple glance at the Issues thread for that cycle in the CE forum would do you better than accusing that there was no testing.


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## HRJustin (Mar 5, 2009)

rich584 said:


> Even the virtually useless Service Manager at my dealer didn't have the nerve to come up with something like that.
> 
> Rich


"Ripley's Believe it or not" is a television show about weird, crazy and strange things that are all true. whether or not you believed them was up to you. It had the host Dean Cain. I cant believe you have never heard of it. This show has been around for a long time and been repeated for a few years now. :lol:

Its not like DirecTV intentionally distributed a bad version of software. It was tested for a long time but the CE is a pretty small test group. Even with the CE program bugs can still get passed over. Im sure another NR will be coming out in the near future. By DirecTV just having the CE program it should be easy to understand that their software is ongoing. They are constantly changing and fixing issues right along with adding new features.


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## Barry in Conyers (Jan 14, 2008)

Drew2k and HRJustin,

You seem to be assuming that anyone who complains about the latest NR is criticizing the CE program or the participants.

I doubt that many of DirecTV's CUSTOMERS know or care how the NR was tested or for how long; what they care about is the performance. Whether the testing was inadequate or the test results were ignored is a moot point; the fact is that the latest NR clearly has some significant problems.

The bottom line is that DirecTV is responsible to their CUSTOMERS for system performance. I don't care how the pre-release testing is accomplished as long as the NR does not introduce new problems or fail to correct problems that should have been eliminated years ago.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Barry in Conyers said:


> The bottom line is that DirecTV is responsible to their CUSTOMERS for system performance. I don't care how the pre-release testing is accomplished as long as the NR does not introduce new problems or fail to correct problems that should have been eliminated years ago.


You're expectations are correct, IMO. We (the CE testers) are only one part of the equation. It's ultimately DirecTV's decision when to pull the trigger on a new release, no matter what the current CE feedback is, including which known issues have or have not been addressed.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Folks .. Let's drop the CE discussion or I will start removing posts .. I do not want to do that. Thank You.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

Nicholsen said:


> Mike -- Don't let the fanboys get you down.
> ...
> The CE program must not be "all that" if the NR software I have been using is the result of the CE design and quality control process. I have worked in organizations where everyone drank the cool aid and told people up the chain of command only what they wanted to hear. In the long run, it doesn't work out so well...


I agree that the CE program isn't so hot. I was a CE'er for a while but quit for two reasons: (1) I was afraid my only box would lose all its saved programs or become unusable, and (2) the only people who were getting any feedback from developers or other D* employees were the few who had friends on the staff and (I think) tended to avoid criticizing their efforts. I guess that may be what you meant by "drinking the Kool-Aid."

I need feedback, and in the old days as a beta tester for the TiVo SA unit, the staff was receptive to my comments and told me a little about what progress was being made in fixing the bugs. (Of course I had signed an NDA.)

As for the fanboys, they constantly infuriate me with their denials and pretensions. They do get _me_ down, but only for a moment.

BTW, this is a very good idea for a poll. I was very surprised that so many people (64 so far) said "My receiver works great!" Also surprising is that an equal number said "They are NOT working on it - they just figure they are 'good enough'." Very cynical, that.

(Sorry, Doug, but I didn't see your warning until after I replied to a post on the first page.)


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Drew2k said:


> I'm sorry, Rich, but this comment and others in the same vein besmirch the volunteer CE testers here at DBSTalk who spend countless hours of their own time downloading the latest software release, looking for and documenting those issues, and submitting reports to DIRECTV. The CE cycle that preceded the current NR was extremely lengthy, and a simple glance at the Issues thread for that cycle in the CE forum would do you better than accusing that there was no testing.


Let me ask you these two questions: Is there any group within the CE testers that holds back HRs that are running the previous NR and have seen nothing of the forthcoming NR? And then downloads the NR before the scheduled national download and reports the results back to the CE testers and whoever they report to?

I meant to "besmirch" no one and never said there was no testing. I simply asked the question: "Were the 20-700s tested?". It was asked and answered to my satisfaction.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

HRJustin said:


> "Ripley's Believe it or not" is a television show about weird, crazy and strange things that are all true. whether or not you believed them was up to you. It had the host Dean Cain. I cant believe you have never heard of it. This show has been around for a long time and been repeated for a few years now. :lol:


I know what _Ripley's Believe It or Not_ show was and I know about Ripley's shows before TV got onto it. I did not expect that kind of answer to a question that I posed in a serious vein and thought that "Ripley's People" were a testing group of some sort. Believe It or Not, you can go to any telephone book and find many listings for many people named "Ripley".



> Its not like DirecTV intentionally distributed a bad version of software.


I never said that D* intentionally distributed a ''bad" version of software. Anywhere.



> It was tested for a long time but the CE is a pretty small test group. Even with the CE program bugs can still get passed over. Im sure another NR will be coming out in the near future. By DirecTV just having the CE program it should be easy to understand that their software is ongoing. They are constantly changing and fixing issues right along with adding new features.


Thanx for the explanation, but I know how it works.


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## Barry in Conyers (Jan 14, 2008)

Doug Brott said:


> Folks .. Let's drop the CE discussion or I will start removing posts .. I do not want to do that. Thank You.


Doug,

Sorry, my bad. The subject you don't want discussed was introduced YESTERDAY in posts by Steve and Drew2K and again this morning in a post by HRJustin. No one complained about those posts which discussed the unmentionable subject, so I rashly assumed that a polite response would be acceptable. That assumption was obviously a terrible misjudgment on my part.


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## NYSmoker (Aug 20, 2006)

I say this having not downloaded a CE in many moons, since the HR20 became pretty darn good, my HR 20 and HR 21 both have HDD thrashing around with the new NR. Recordings skip a little, in time with the HDD thrashing. 

It is quite annoyingly loud in the bedroom when it comes time to sleep.

Bad enough that I am looking forward to a new CE to see if it fixes anything.


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

Barry in Conyers said:


> Drew2k and HRJustin,
> 
> You seem to be assuming that anyone who complains about the latest NR is criticizing the CE program or the participants.


Ah, it is not I who is assuming. 

I only commented on one poster after seeing a series of posts that truly do not reflect the reality of the testing that goes into the releases. The final comment I replied to was at best sarcasm, but at worst, a put-down of the a subset of the forum members here, for the reasons I cited above.

It does not matter that any other DIRECTV customer knows of any special DBSTalk programs, as the members of this forum and in particular this thread know it exists, thus a comment that states no testing has been done really is slamming those members here who have done the testing. I stand by my earlier response.


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## Barry in Conyers (Jan 14, 2008)

Drew2k said:


> Ah, it is not I who is assuming.
> 
> I only commented on one poster after seeing a series of posts that truly do not reflect the reality of the testing that goes into the releases. The final comment I replied to was at best sarcasm, but at worst, a put-down of the a subset of the forum members here, for the reasons I cited above.
> 
> ...


OK, the unmentionable program testing was fantastic, but somebody at DirecTV decided to ignore the results and roll out a NR with known problems. I personally believe in user group testing and think it produces superior results, but that is not the issue. Lousy testing or lousy use of fantastic testing; either way, it is a lousy NR and expecting CUSTOMERS to ignore that is unrealistic.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I'm sorry, Mr. in Conyers, but I disagree with your statement.


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## Barry in Conyers (Jan 14, 2008)

Stuart Sweet said:


> I'm sorry, Mr. in Conyers, but I disagree with your statement.


OK Mr. Sweet, it is a FANTASTIC NR with absolutely no problems and CUSTOMERS should be dancing in the streets. Happy now?


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Barry in Conyers said:


> OK Mr. Sweet, it is a FANTASTIC NR with absolutely no problems and CUSTOMERS should be dancing in the streets. Happy now?


 Interesting thought, but also unlikely.

Perhaps there is a reality. A dimension not only of sight and sound but reality. (Not just shadow and substance...) The reality zone.   (Sorry Rod Serling...)

In this reality the HR2x NR is not perfect. Nor a complete failure. Something to be improved upon, of course. Yet, something that can work for many. Perhaps not all, I ain't that naive, but at least for many.

And the goal is the next release, every release will be better overall than the previous. 

Cheers,
Tom


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Since we all can't seem to move past the subject of CE .. I have no choice but to close this thread.

Feel free to start another thread based on the original topic .. that is not the point of closure here.


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