# OTA antenna question



## Redster (Jan 14, 2004)

A "What would you do " question for all the experts. Currently I am getting almost all of my ota's through a channel master 3016 in the attic. I get a signal strength of 77 - 87 with the tv towers of the stations I want 18 - 20 miles away between 128 and 130 degrees. There are several trees and buildings in the path and I have aluminum siding. The picture is pretty good but I do get the occasional pixelation on all of them and channel 59 I cant get at all. I can move antenna around to pick it up but then I lose strength/quality on other channels. I tried a radio shack amplifier both on antenna side and down at the receiver , watching the signal strength while I adjusted - it did not improve signal at all. 
So now for the question. According to the antennaweb.org site, for my HD locals, I need a LD antenna. The current one is rated mileage wise but it is a MD . Not sure which brand is best, but I see a Wineguard HD8200P that is rated for what I need. It has 71 active elements compared to 24 I currently have and is about twice as big. They also recommend a preamp to be used with it. I am not going to ask if it is worth it because to get a clear signal on all channels to me, is worth it. My question is ,, do you think a new antenna will it make a difference. I dont want to spend the money and still have same problem. Thoughts ?


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

Redster said:


> According to the antennaweb.org site, for my HD locals, I need a LD antenna. The current one is rated mileage wise but it is a MD . Not sure which brand is best, but I see a Wineguard HD8200P that is rated for what I need. It has 71 active elements compared to 24 I currently have and is about twice as big. They also recommend a preamp to be used with it. I am not going to ask if it is worth it because to get a clear signal on all channels to me, is worth it. My question is ,, do you think a new antenna will it make a difference. I dont want to spend the money and still have same problem. Thoughts ?


Antennaweb.org is very good. With the antenna in your attic a pre-amp isn't going to help, I assure you. The best place for the antenna in atop the roof with as few obstructions as possible. I believe that you would see a big difference if you put your current antenna on the roof. The attic is a cause of reflected signals. On analog this would look like ghosting. With digital, it causes reduced signal strength, pixelation, and at times total loss of signal. MD antenna's respective to distant digital signals are bad. I'm still trying to come up with something that will allow me to get my low power, distant SD channels that are located at 124, 131, and 260 degrees.


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## Redster (Jan 14, 2004)

Well, I finally got the antenna on the roof instead of in the attic,, no one had a tripod mount so had to go with chimney mount. Father nlaw built chimney, and none of the straps were long enough to go around but thats another story. I bought a compass and pointed to main station I wanted,, the others are just off less than 10 degrees. I did a point dish and signal strength is pretty much steady at 120 instead of the 71 - 91 range. I then deleted all my OTA channels and powered down 921 for about 10 mins. After reboot I did another search and I am now receiving every local channel in my area. They are all working  I still need to put a grounding block up somehow and secure cable to the roof but I have time until snow flies.
Guess there was a bigger reflection and dampening effect from the siding than I realized. Thanks Boylehome, even I sometimes take advice. Yippeee,, wife gave me hugs,, football in HD all weekend.


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

Redster said:


> Well, I finally got the antenna on the roof instead of in the attic,, no one had a tripod mount so had to go with chimney mount. Father nlaw built chimney, and none of the straps were long enough to go around but thats another story. I bought a compass and pointed to main station I wanted,, the others are just off less than 10 degrees. I did a point dish and signal strength is pretty much steady at 120 instead of the 71 - 91 range. I then deleted all my OTA channels and powered down 921 for about 10 mins. After reboot I did another search and I am now receiving every local channel in my area. They are all working  I still need to put a grounding block up somehow and secure cable to the roof but I have time until snow flies.
> Guess there was a bigger reflection and dampening effect from the siding than I realized. Thanks Boylehome, even I sometimes take advice. Yippeee,, wife gave me hugs,, football in HD all weekend.


I'm totally happy that your have your OTA's. I hope that your getting a good amount of HD content. Redster, your welcome, glad I could help.


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## Redster (Jan 14, 2004)

yep,, every channel has a digital, so getting more content than I did with Dish HD package. I do have another question though. Am I going to lose much signal by using a grounding block for the antenna and also by using the coax connectors on the surge protector I just bought. I know a straight shot with one cable is the best way to go but I also want to protect my investment.


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## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

Redster said:


> Not sure which brand is best, but I see a Wineguard HD8200P that is rated for what I need. It has 71 active elements compared to 24 I currently have and is about twice as big. They also recommend a preamp to be used with it. I am not going to ask if it is worth it because to get a clear signal on all channels to me, is worth it. My question is ,, do you think a new antenna will it make a difference. I dont want to spend the money and still have same problem. Thoughts ?


I upgraded to the 8200P from one that was half the size. It's improved picture quality quite nicely for towers up to 60 miles away.


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

Redster said:


> yep,, every channel has a digital, so getting more content than I did with Dish HD package. I do have another question though. Am I going to lose much signal by using a grounding block for the antenna and also by using the coax connectors on the surge protector I just bought. I know a straight shot with one cable is the best way to go but I also want to protect my investment.


Grounding block is a must. It should be near the antenna. Db loss will be very little and you may not notice. If you use a splitter you will lose about 20db signal strength. BTW, if you notice signal loss and it affects your viewing, you can always disconnect your surge protector. Really, the surge protector for the antenna cable is not a big deal as the grounding block is better. If there is a nearby or direct lighting strike, neither are going to be 100% helpful. To compensate for loss, you can put a good amplifier behind the receiver or you can put up a bigger antenna, fringe to deep fringe. You could use a pre-amp but depending on where you live the pre-amp could make for some unhappiness in getting normally good signals.


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## Redster (Jan 14, 2004)

I can put the grounding block on the antenna mast and run wire down chimney then. I have read different opinions in here about using the protector for the coax but was undecided which way to go.. Everything is under warranty and I have dish protection package. Guess I will just go with grounding block.

Thanks again


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Bad information here.

If you put a single splitter in the line, you will lose 3.5dB of signal on each split line, not 20dB. Signal loss from a ground block should be negligible - <0.5dB.

You should install a ground clamp around the base (or near the base) of your antenna mast. From the ground clamp, run a minimum 10 gauge solid copper wire (8 gauge is better according to the electrician I talked to about this) from the ground clamp to your main house ground. I connected mine to the 6 gauge bare copper wire running from my house electrical service to my ground rod. 

You also need to use a ground block to ground the coax wire running from the antenna. The ground block should be placed as close as possible to the point where the coax enters your house. From the ground block, run a 10 gauge minumum wire to your house ground. 

Do not install and use a new ground rod unless you use an 8' rod, and connect it to your existing house ground rod with 6 guage bare copper wire, buired. If the ground rods aren't connected, you will create a ground loop situation that potentially could be dangerous. 

If you put the ground block near the base of your antenna mast, run the ground wire from your ground clamp, through the ground block and then straight to the house ground. 

As for using the surge protector on your powerstrip, that's up to you. I use mine, just for added protection.

None of this is going to protect you from a near or direct lightning strike. It's not physically possible for a 10 gauge wire to carry that much current. The goal of all of this is to reduce the potential difference between your antenna mast and ground. It's that potential difference that draws lightning. 

This all also applies to grounding your satellite dish(es) and coax coming from the dish(es). If you have DishPro lnbs, you should use 3 ghz rated ground blocks. Lots of online places have dual 3 ghz ground blocks, but the only online place I could find that uses quads is DishStore.net.


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## Redster (Jan 14, 2004)

oh boy,, what to do. Here is what I have. Antenna is mounted to chimney which is on my patio , brackets have a good bite on the antenna mast and mast does not touch roof. My existing ground pole is about 40 feet down and away on another wall. Because of the patio, I cant drive a new ground rod anywhere close so would have to run wire way around to other rod. If I get a direct hit on the antenna/chimney,, it wont do much damage to house,, ( I believe ?) , I know that lightning is gonna strike where it wants but I do have several trees higher than it. . I dont see any safe way of running that ground wire now unless perhaps I go with a shielded cable which would then have to lay on the roof to get to the existing rod. If its the potential that I have to worry about, now you have me worried.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

I'm running my 10 gauge wire down the side of my brick house and then around a corner myself - total distance of wire in my case is about 40 feet to my connection. It was the best I could do, and it was approved by the electrician that I had look at it.

Sounds like your best bet (to me) would be to run the ground wire down the chimney (it's brick, right?), and then around to your ground service. It's not an ideal situation, but it's much better than not grounding it at all. At least, that's what the professional told me when I went though this exercise a couple of weeks ago.

Not trying to worry you here. But I got freaked out by a huge lightning storm we had here 3 weeks ago, with my 13' high metal antenna sticking up above my roof not grounded in any way. So, I did something about it.


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## Redster (Jan 14, 2004)

is your wire a bare one or is it coated ? I can run along the gutter, would make it a longer run but it would be out of the way and I could then use the original ground rod. I could then use the ground block, screwed to the mast and wire it to a ground clamp that I could put on bottom of mast.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

I used the insulated 10 guage wire that Home Depot sells for $0.16 per foot. Sounds like a decent solution for your situation, and will absolutely be better than not doing anything at all.


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

Mark Lamutt said:


> Whoa, whoa, whoa. Bad information here.
> 
> If you put a single splitter in the line, you will lose 3.5dB of signal on each split line, not 20dB. Signal loss from a ground block should be negligible - <0.5dB.


Sorry, my bad. What was I thinking about


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