# Off air local channels



## SThacker (May 24, 2005)

Good morning all,

I am contemplating going with a roof top antenna instead of the indoor antenna but was wondering if it was worth it if I already subscribe to local channels through dish? My main reasson for getting the 622 iwas the fact sometime this year dish is going to start broadcasting local digital channels for my area. To reiterate my question would it be a waste of money if I bought an outdoor antenna if I already subscribe to local channels? 

Thanks

P.S. I've had decent luck with my 622. I've had a few audio issues on Rave. I am very happy with my 622. Hopefully they resolve the problems and make it a much more stable platform.


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## jpage4500 (Jul 30, 2005)

One reason to keep an outdoor antenna up even with local HD channels is you can record 3 shows at once (1 off-air and 2 sat). It doesn't happen often w/me but there are times when it will come in handy - esp with some shows going over the typical 1-hour blocks.


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## kbdrand (Apr 16, 2006)

Is your indoor antenna on top of your TV or in the attic? 

I've found that by placing a very large outdoor antenna in the attic I can get all of my digital signals (even being 30+ miles away from the towers) without having to mess with putting the antenna on the roof.


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## dewey brunner (May 1, 2006)

jpage4500 said:


> One reason to keep an outdoor antenna up even with local HD channels is you can record 3 shows at once (1 off-air and 2 sat). It doesn't happen often w/me but there are times when it will come in handy - esp with some shows going over the typical 1-hour blocks.


I agree, I have my outside antenna in the attic with stations about 40 miles away. I have subscribed to locals, however, my hd locals come from the outside antenna. There is no telling when dish will get hd locals, with the exception of cbs in some areas.


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## c_caz (Jul 15, 2003)

I have a cheap ($25 RatShack) outdoor UHF antenna in the rafters of my garage. Works very well and is not seen. I have Dish locals on SAT, but typically watch the OTA channels as they include more beyond the 4 networks (PBS, UPN) and when the weather gets real bad they aren't prone to fading as much as my SAT locals on 129. That and you can record 3 things at once which I do more then I thought I would.


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## Cold Irons (Dec 7, 2005)

I have an outdoor antenna & would not give it up for anything. Two reasons:

1) Now can record 3 HD local network shows at once (one OTA & 2 Sat).

2) The OTA HD quality is quite a bit better than that on the Sat LIL HD networks.


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## SThacker (May 24, 2005)

Cold Irons said:


> I have an outdoor antenna & would not give it up for anything. Two reasons:
> 
> 1) Now can record 3 HD local network shows at once (one OTA & 2 Sat).
> 
> 2) The OTA HD quality is quite a bit better than that on the Sat LIL HD networks.


Thanks all for the replies, I do have an antenna on top of the tv. If I put in the attic, I would have to fish the wire down the wall and then run it out of wall to the receiver is this correct?


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## kbdrand (Apr 16, 2006)

SThacker said:


> Thanks all for the replies, I do have an antenna on top of the tv. If I put in the attic, I would have to fish the wire down the wall and then run it out of wall to the receiver is this correct?


Unless you already have an extra coax cable in the wall. I had the people who built my house install an extra coax for the antenna, which helped a bunch.


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## rbyers (Jan 15, 2004)

You could use a diplexer to join the OTA signal to the satellite signal and share one of the satellite's coaxes. Then you use a diplexer at the other end to separate the two into two coaxes that connect to the 622. Beats fishing wire down the wall.


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## Mikey (Oct 26, 2004)

Dish is only putting up the big four networks in selected cities so far. If you have any UPN/WB/Independent digital stations that you want to watch OTA, you'll probably want to keep that antenna up


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## SThacker (May 24, 2005)

Mikey said:


> Dish is only putting up the big four networks in selected cities so far. If you have any UPN/WB/Independent digital stations that you want to watch OTA, you'll probably want to keep that antenna up


Thanks all for helpful advice


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## kbdrand (Apr 16, 2006)

rbyers said:


> You could use a diplexer to join the OTA signal to the satellite signal and share one of the satellite's coaxes. Then you use a diplexer at the other end to separate the two into two coaxes that connect to the 622. Beats fishing wire down the wall.


How much signal loss or interference do you see with a diplexer like that? I might try that with some of my setups but I already have marginal OTA signals, don't want to degrade them even more.


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## oljim (Aug 6, 2002)

Forget diplexers they can reduce OTA signal


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

oljim said:


> Forget diplexers they can reduce OTA signal


A signal amplifier (if and only if the signal is attenuated too much) is a whole lot easier to install than fishing wires down the wall to each receiver. The insertion loss of a pair of quality diplexers isn't going to break the camel's back unless your already a candidate for an amplifier.


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## oljim (Aug 6, 2002)

Diplexers are also a nightmare feeding power to the amp.


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## wingnut1 (Nov 10, 2005)

I have mine setup with diplexers and have for several years with different receivers and even back to when I was with D. they work great and I haven't had any problems with signal loss due to them.


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## Rogueone (Jan 29, 2004)

ST, whether you go roof top or attic is largely going to depend on your distance from the towers and how good you can receive signal. Also, if you are in an area that could potentially receive locals from 2 areas, you might want an antenna on a rotor which you could then face towards whichever signal you wanted (unless you are lucky enough to be able to get both sets without moving the antenna). 

As others stated, I'd never give up my roof antenna now that I have it. And just because you have an antenna on the roof doesn't mean it has to be ugly. I have the CM 8 bowtie model, which is like 4'x4' or something like that. But on top of a two story house, on the back side fo the center line, it's barely visible, and it's in the spot with the strongest signal (installer had a signal meter for finding the best reception spot ) . As far as recordings and watching, I always use the OTA as my primary source, as OTA is less likely to experience loss. Since I watch nothing live, and I'll have no way of knowing if the sat lost signal during a show until I get around to watching it, I've gone the route of just recording as much as possible off the OTA  

And the 3 tuners issue comes in handy this time of year, with shows like AI that move around and cause other programs to move around. Due to AI, the show Bones moved to Wed nights, and created the one time a week I need 3 tuners, hence you never know when you'll need that extra tuner and you'll be very happy when it happens (boy I hope I never need 4, I'll probably loose it  hahaha)


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## oljim (Aug 6, 2002)

When all your stations are from 40 to 71 miles you will find out how they reduce signal


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## Rogueone (Jan 29, 2004)

mine are in the 50+ range, and the ota is diplexed into the house. I have a simple RS 15db amp at the receiver, and have no issues (unless you count a split second drop every now and then). that's a lot better than dealing with trying to run another cable down from the roof


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## SThacker (May 24, 2005)

Rogueone said:


> ST, whether you go roof top or attic is largely going to depend on your distance from the towers and how good you can receive signal. Also, if you are in an area that could potentially receive locals from 2 areas, you might want an antenna on a rotor which you could then face towards whichever signal you wanted (unless you are lucky enough to be able to get both sets without moving the antenna).
> 
> As others stated, I'd never give up my roof antenna now that I have it. And just because you have an antenna on the roof doesn't mean it has to be ugly. I have the CM 8 bowtie model, which is like 4'x4' or something like that. But on top of a two story house, on the back side fo the center line, it's barely visible, and it's in the spot with the strongest signal (installer had a signal meter for finding the best reception spot ) . As far as recordings and watching, I always use the OTA as my primary source, as OTA is less likely to experience loss. Since I watch nothing live, and I'll have no way of knowing if the sat lost signal during a show until I get around to watching it, I've gone the route of just recording as much as possible off the OTA
> 
> And the 3 tuners issue comes in handy this time of year, with shows like AI that move around and cause other programs to move around. Due to AI, the show Bones moved to Wed nights, and created the one time a week I need 3 tuners, hence you never know when you'll need that extra tuner and you'll be very happy when it happens (boy I hope I never need 4, I'll probably loose it  hahaha)


Rogueone,

How expensive was it to get the antenna installed? I am not sure exactly how to do it myself.


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## liferules (Aug 14, 2005)

SThacker said:


> Rogueone,
> 
> How expensive was it to get the antenna installed? I am not sure exactly how to do it myself.


I had looked around the DFW area for antenna installation and received bids in the $200-300 area. I then went to Circuit City and they said they would install any antenna's purchases there for $70-80. You may want to talk to them...I believe they carry Winegard...


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## lujan (Feb 10, 2004)

liferules said:


> I had looked around the DFW area for antenna installation and received bids in the $200-300 area. I then went to Circuit City and they said they would install any antenna's purchases there for $70-80. You may want to talk to them...I believe they carry Winegard...


$200-300? I guess I got a good deal for $150 two years ago and this included the antenna.


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## oljim (Aug 6, 2002)

Just make sure you do not get stuck with a over priced TERK ant.


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## SThacker (May 24, 2005)

oljim said:


> Just make sure you do not get stuck with a over priced TERK ant.


Thanks for the info


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

oljim said:


> When all your stations are from 40 to 71 miles you will find out how they reduce signal


Everyone's situation is different. I'm located about 50alm from the broadcast towers in Portland, Oregon and I'm pegged on two of the eight digitals after splitting three ways off of a $60 Radio Shack VHF/UHF/FM rooftop antenna (model VU-90). The rest are consistently 95-115 on the 921's 125 scale.

The insertion loss of a good diplexer isn't substantially worse than that of a 2-way splitter. Remember also that both the good and the bad signals are attenuated similarly, to the net signal stays pretty good.


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## larrymadison (May 5, 2006)

if you do a scan in setup and establish good local digital signals, why would anyone want to pay 5 bucks for dish network locals?


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## lujan (Feb 10, 2004)

larrymadison said:


> if you do a scan in setup and establish good local digital signals, why would anyone want to pay 5 bucks for dish network locals?


To be able to record two HD local stations at the same time. I can't think of any other reason.


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## wingnut1 (Nov 10, 2005)

larrymadison said:


> if you do a scan in setup and establish good local digital signals, why would anyone want to pay 5 bucks for dish network locals?


So that you can get the local guide information and use name based recording. If you are getting HD locals from Dish you could also record up to three HD local programs at the same time.


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## madbrain (Dec 10, 2004)

lujan said:


> To be able to record two HD local stations at the same time. I can't think of any other reason.


I can think of one more.

We have a PBS station here in the SF Bay area, KQED, that broadcasts all its new programming in ... SD analog only ! It broadcasts in digital too, including one HD channels and 4 subchannels, but it has different programming there, and it's always reruns. The news on the digital channel is always oldies , at least by a few hours.

The 622 doesn't have an analog tuner, so it can't receive that new PBS programming ... Even my 921 which has an analog OTA tuner can only tune it, but not record. Also, my antenna gets the digital PBS channel perfectly, but that PBS OTA channel has an incredible amount of snow that makes it unwatchable... So, paying Dish the $5/month for the LIL is the only way I can watch and record the supposedly "free" new KQED programming. sigh !


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