# Picture of USSB "Bridge"



## ejjames (Oct 3, 2006)

Here is an ad (I think from "Broadcasting & Cable") celebrating our launch. Ah memories...

Also a quick video shot the day we took all the equipment out. There's no audio and it's quick and raw...


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## matt (Jan 12, 2010)

Which one is you?


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## ejjames (Oct 3, 2006)

This was probably taken late '93. I wasn't hired until '95.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Yep, the memories indeed ... 

Now the former USSB facility at Oakdale, Minn. is simply called the "Midwest Uplink" station or UL6 relegated to uplinking only LiL programming. 

And what were those transponder loading numbers back then again for the premium channels you broadcast?

No more than 5 (MPEG-2 SD) channels per transponder? Don't know the resolution you or DirecTV used at the time

But now its about, what, ~12 channels/per for MPEG-2 SD and at only 480X480 resolution?
:nono2: The days, how they do go by don't they ...?


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## ejjames (Oct 3, 2006)

5 per transponder. Full resolution.


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

ejjames said:


> 5 per transponder. Full resolution.


Damn, I remember that. Back when I first sub'd (early 1997), DBS used to advertise as "100% digital quality" and that really meant something special.

(Former USSB subscriber  ).


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

LameLefty said:


> Damn, I remember that. Back when I first sub'd (early 1997), DBS used to advertise as "100% digital quality" and that really meant something special.
> 
> (Former USSB subscriber  ).


You mean as opposed to 50% digital quality today?


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## Avder (Feb 6, 2010)

HoTat2 said:


> Yep, the memories indeed ...
> 
> Now the former USSB facility at Oakdale, Minn. is simply called the "Midwest Uplink" station or UL6 relegated to uplinking only LiL programming.
> 
> ...


Whats the bandwidth of a transponder now compared to then? Cause if its the same, then wow...thats some kind of shoehorning.


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

Davenlr said:


> You mean as opposed to 50% digital quality today?


As opposed to bit-starved and squished into metaphorical mush.


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## ejjames (Oct 3, 2006)

Avder said:


> Whats the bandwidth of a transponder now compared to then? Cause if its the same, then wow...thats some kind of shoehorning.


We took great pride in our image. Off the bridge are 7 control rooms. When I wasn't supervising on the bridge I would be in one of the rooms directly monitoring 5 or 6 channels. We monitored the incoming downlink from the source, and we also had a consumer IRD to monitor the result.

I can honestly say, switching between the source and the RCA IRD, it looked virtually identical. The one issue we had at startup had to do with the early encoders which we called "MPEG 1+". The signal tended to break up during periods like a fade to black. That was the case for the first few months, we then switched to full MPEG-2 encoder cards and it was no longer a problem.

As for "downrezzing" the signal to something like 480x480, that option wasn't even available in the early software. Even if we could, we had no immediate reason to do so. In fact about '98 we made a deal to transfer our basic channels to Directv. All the Viacom channels like MTV, VH-1, NICK, TV land and others like Comedy Central, Lifetime etc...It just made sense to group basics together. We then concentrated as a premium service.

Since we only had 5 channels to monitor, we would often catch problems before the network. Each room had a line to all control rooms. Low video levels or distorted audio on HBO? Call them. I'd say I made 3 or 4 calls a week. We had some network execs taking a tour, and they wanted to know what tech allowed us to catch problems so quickly. It was just eyes on the screen.

A great job working with some good friends. It was sad after the buyout. After we transferred control, we could notice a much softer picture right away.

Well, I've rambled on long enough. Goodnight!


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## mjbvideo (Jan 15, 2006)

That was part of Hubbard empire, right?


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## ejjames (Oct 3, 2006)

mjbvideo said:


> That was part of Hubbard empire, right?


Yes, they still own KSTP-TV(ABC) St.Paul and KSTC 45(Ind), 2 FM and 1 AM station. Part of the deal to buy USSB, the Hubbard's would get 1 channel space on D*. That channel is now "Reelz Channel".

They ended up buying the US broadcast rights to that Kennedy family miniseries that bounced around Hollywood like a hot potato. I think it was made for the History Channel, but it's accuracy was questioned by the family as being too "right" leaning.

I don't know much about the situation, but I do know Mr. Hubbard is conservative. Depending on how much he paid for rights (and I bet they got it for a song), it could be a coup for Reelz. I bet they get some carriage agreements and lots of viewers who have never stopped on that channel.

I could be wrong, but I thought I remember reading that they don't charge carriage fees.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Avder said:


> Whats the bandwidth of a transponder now compared to then? Cause if its the same, then wow...thats some kind of shoehorning.


The transponder bandwidth for the DBS Ku band (12.2-12.7 GHz downlink) is still the same as in the '90s since it is fixed by international agreement under the ITU which for region two (the Americas) is 27 MHz.

So yes its indeed a great deal of shoehorning SD channels into the standardized 27 MHz Ku transponders these days, with the resulting blurry and soft pictures currently displayed on the DirecTV SD network.

While still acceptable PQ for old 4:3 analog sets, its frankly a mess for the large flat screens nowadays.

Thus the nostalgia for the days of SD PQ of the USSB era.


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## ejjames (Oct 3, 2006)

I have a videotape of me walking through the control rooms etc...with no audio. One of the most impressive were the twin 9 meter u[link dishes. At the time, they were the only uplinks transmitting from inside a building, through a fabric transparent to microwaves. I don't know if that's still the case.

Being all the equipment has been torn out, do you think anyone would mind if I threw it onto youtube? It's not like I'd be exposing state secrets!


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## Avder (Feb 6, 2010)

HoTat2 said:


> The transponder bandwidth for the DBS Ku band (12.2-12.7 GHz downlink) is still the same as in the '90s since it is fixed by international agreement under the ITU which for region two (the Americas) is 27 MHz.
> 
> So yes its indeed a great deal of shoehorning SD channels into the standardized 27 MHz Ku transponders these days, with the resulting blurry and soft pictures currently displayed on the DirecTV SD network.
> 
> ...


Well, what about bitrate?


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## trainman (Jan 9, 2008)

ejjames said:


> Yes, they still own KSTP-TV(ABC) St.Paul and KSTC 45(Ind), 2 FM and 1 AM station.


Somewhere I have a Hubbard Broadcasting employee ID from the summer of 1994, when I interned at WTOG in St. Petersburg, Florida, which was then an independent station. I always assumed the Hubbards owned it to give them an excuse to take trips to Florida in the winter. 

(No longer owned by them, though -- if I recall correctly, they sold it to the Paramount stations group, which means it's now owned by CBS.)


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Good times... thanks for sharing that.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Avder said:


> Well, what about bitrate?


Since the "symbol" or "baud" rate is still limited by the Ku transponder bandwidth to ~20 million symbols/sec or "20 megabaud." And the digital modulation for SD signals are the same 4-QPSK. The bit rate is the same 80 million bps it was in the '90s.

Now take away some of that bit rate for Forward Error Correction (FEC) coding and other necessary control overhead information, and you can see just how much DirecTV is really packing in the SD channels nowadays via increased MPEG compression combined with down-rezzing of the images to create enough room for over twice the transponder channel loading USSB ran at in the '90s.

With the resulting soft blurry SD pictures many are complaining about today.


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## e4123 (Jan 31, 2011)

Pretty Cool. Thanks for sharing.


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## prestone683 (Aug 16, 2010)

Geezus. Picture looks like the geeks from 1984 War Games or something.


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## ejjames (Oct 3, 2006)

prestone683 said:


> Geezus. Picture looks like the geeks from 1984 War Games or something.


Yeh,

Not people you would probably find in the pages of GQ! :lol:


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## JosephB (Nov 14, 2005)

Avder said:


> Well, what about bitrate?


Since first gen receivers still work, all the technology is the same. They just crank up the compression and kill some of the error control and shove more into the same space. Now, granted, there has been some improvement in the encoders, but not a lot.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

ejjames said:


> Being all the equipment has been torn out, do you think anyone would mind if I threw it onto youtube? It's not like I'd be exposing state secrets!


You should do this!


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## xmguy (Mar 27, 2008)

ejjames said:


> Yeh,
> 
> Not people you would probably find in the pages of GQ! :lol:


What's GQ!?


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## xmguy (Mar 27, 2008)

I love it. Did USSB provide uplink to Ka big dishes too?


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## ejjames (Oct 3, 2006)

xmguy said:


> I love it. Did USSB provide uplink to Ka big dishes too?


If you mean the "BUDs", then no, we were strictly a DSS provider.


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

xmguy said:


> What's GQ!?


http://www.gq.com/


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

I found this in some old boxes when we were doing some spring cleaning.

That is $111.14 for the quarter.

And yes, the PQ was spectacular. I had a 35" Mits tube and it looked as good as my LD player.


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

And only $39.99 for a PPV!!!! Oh the memories!!! Now a WWE PPV is like $55 for the SD version and $65 for the HD version and a high caliber boxing match is like, what? $80 to $100? I bet a movie was like 1.99? LOL, now its $6.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Herdfan said:


> I found this in some old boxes when we were doing some spring cleaning.
> 
> That is $111.14 for the quarter.
> 
> And yes, the PQ was spectacular. I had a 35" Mits tube and it looked as good as my LD player.


Yep, nostalgia, and more nostalgia ... ;

Myself I recently found an old strong box in the garage with some of the old USSB advertisement literature in it from my first installation back in Sep. '95

This one was a six page brochure offering a first month free of USSB's top programming package "Entertainment Plus" to new customers ....

Back then all those basics and premiums for only $34.95/mo. :lol:


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

SledgeHammer said:


> I bet a movie was like 1.99? LOL, now its $6.


With the "top" package, you got one free per month. Don't remember if that was DirecTV or USSB.


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## ejjames (Oct 3, 2006)

Well, I uploaded a quick 10 minute youtube video of a last walk around before we tore it all out to send to directv, Castle Rock. Unfortunately it cut off my last shot of the 2 9 meter uplink dishes indoors. I'll grab some stills later. My 1st youtube, be kind! Here's the link.


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## PCampbell (Nov 18, 2006)

Cool, Looks great!


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## JosephB (Nov 14, 2005)

I have a question about how it worked back in the USSB/DirecTV days..was one of the companies "primary"? As in, who decided channel numbers, maintained the EPG data, conditional access, etc. Was there only one system maintaining all of that and one company or the other sent their commands, etc. to the main system? Or were there two sets of EPG data, two sources of channel authorizations, etc?


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## ejjames (Oct 3, 2006)

I believe whoever the customer called first was the "primary". We had full control of conditional access and when I moved to the 6a-2p shift, it was my responsibility to download the updated data from Tribune on a special computer. So we completely operated as a separate company.

There was even a 6'x6' conditional access room with a rack of computers. In the 5 years I was there, I never saw anyone in that room, nor did I know of anyone I worked with who had a key and the passcode. Very cloak and dagger if you ask me!

The only instance I can think of where D* was the source, was when we launched HBO-HD. Our infrastructure was not yet in place, so that was uplinked by Directv's then new L.A. uplink facility. However it was still our responsibility to monitor the feed.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

ejjames said:


> There was even a 6'x6' conditional access room with a rack of computers. In the 5 years I was there, I never saw anyone in that room, nor did I know of anyone I worked with who had a key and the passcode. Very cloak and dagger if you ask me!


I'm sure there was a very good reason for that.


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## ejjames (Oct 3, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> I'm sure there was a very good reason for that.


I'm sure you could authorize any and all cards for whatever you like from that room.

The IRDs in each control room was authorized for USSB programming only. The IRD on the bridge, connected to the large center screen had, what we referred to as a "gold" card. This was a completely open card. Although we only monitored USSB channels, we might *ahem* just make sure that a special D* PPV event was going smoothly.

Being a HBO affiliate meant that we would get most of the Tyson fights. It was all hands on deck and quite nerve wracking. Lots of the execs, including Stanly Hubbard (owner) would often be there. Usually we were a pass-through facility (except the promo insertions for basics). But for PPV, we had opening and closing animation.


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## SamC (Jan 20, 2003)

ejjames said:


> The only instance I can think of where D* was the source, was when we launched HBO-HD.


Now that is how faultly my memory is. I could have sworn that USSB was gone before HD began. I was an early adopter of HD and my first HD set (it was a rare deal, a rear projector with the box built in, the card slot was in the back where the cables plugged in) was and RCA and labeled "DirecTV", not DSS.


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## ejjames (Oct 3, 2006)

SamC said:


> Now that is how faultly my memory is. I could have sworn that USSB was gone before HD began. I was an early adopter of HD and my first HD set (it was a rare deal, a rear projector with the box built in, the card slot was in the back where the cables plugged in) was and RCA and labeled "DirecTV", not DSS.


True, we had agreed (some say we were forced) to change the name of the product to directv. Who knows, maybe the deal had been worked out by those way above my pay grade. But we were around for a few months after hbo-hd.

The hd set we used to monitor hbo was essentially a rear projection RCA CRT, with a DTC-100 tuner built in. Probably the same unit you had. If I remember, there were no RGB or component inputs. So the units that are still around can only get OTA HD, is that correct?


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## Scott in FL (Mar 18, 2008)

HoTat2 said:


> Since the "symbol" or "baud" rate is still limited by the Ku transponder bandwidth to ~20 million symbols/sec or "20 megabaud." And the digital modulation for SD signals are the same 4-QPSK. The bit rate is the same 80 million bps it was in the '90s.
> 
> Now take away some of that bit rate for Forward Error Correction (FEC) coding and other necessary control overhead information...


Well, the math is a bit off...

Assuming QPSK, 3/4 rate FEC, and 188/204 Reed Solomon, the information rate would be just over 27 Mbps. This would be shared between video, audio, DVB information, and any other overhead.

20 Msps X 2 = 40 Mbps transmission rate

40 X 3/4 FEC inner coding = 30 Mbps

30 X 188/204 Reed Solomon outer coding = 27.647 Mbps info rate


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## JosephB (Nov 14, 2005)

ejjames said:


> I believe whoever the customer called first was the "primary". We had full control of conditional access and when I moved to the 6a-2p shift, it was my responsibility to download the updated data from Tribune on a special computer. So we completely operated as a separate company.
> 
> There was even a 6'x6' conditional access room with a rack of computers. In the 5 years I was there, I never saw anyone in that room, nor did I know of anyone I worked with who had a key and the passcode. Very cloak and dagger if you ask me!
> 
> The only instance I can think of where D* was the source, was when we launched HBO-HD. Our infrastructure was not yet in place, so that was uplinked by Directv's then new L.A. uplink facility. However it was still our responsibility to monitor the feed.


That's kind of amazing that the system was/is designed to be completely independently managed by two companies on the same satellite. Obviously there had to be *some* collaboration to manage channel numbers, but the fact that EPG data and conditional access was duplicated is surprising.


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## Christopher Gould (Jan 14, 2007)

JosephB said:


> That's kind of amazing that the system was/is designed to be completely independently managed by two companies on the same satellite. Obviously there had to be *some* collaboration to manage channel numbers, but the fact that EPG data and conditional access was duplicated is surprising.


the channel numbers were easy. everything USSB be had was in the 900's


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

JosephB said:


> That's kind of amazing that the system was/is designed to be completely independently managed by two companies on the same satellite. Obviously there had to be *some* collaboration to manage channel numbers, but the fact that EPG data and conditional access was duplicated is surprising.


I wonder if it is much different than today with multiple uplink centers. The information on DirecTV's and USSB's servers would need to be shared so a change on one system would affect the others. The only difference I can see is with one company the changes would be done at one office and propagated instead of being done at two or more different points.

I assume all the data and control streams are still built at each uplink center (and not built at one and sent to the other centers as a data stream). The individual "per transponder" data streams would be best done at the actual uplink center (even if the changes were remotely controlled).

It is easy to forget how much infrastructure is behind the scenes. All we have to do is turn on the receiver and change channels. All the "where's the channel" and authorization is transparent (to us).


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## Scott in FL (Mar 18, 2008)

I worked for GlobeCast in London back in the 90's and early 2000's. GlobeCast was one of four companies that uplinked to Sky (actually the Eurobird and Astra satellites). Customers would call Sky to subscribe, Sky would keep the subscriber base, and send the conditional access information via a terrestrial link to the applicable uplinker (depending on who was uplinking a particular channel). We'd insert it into the transport stream, and the customer's receiver would be authorized. 

Sky maintained the call center and customer support, etc. We never talked to the customer. And they did this for three other uplink service providers, in addition to us.

Sort of the same technology.


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## SamC (Jan 20, 2003)

ejjames said:


> The hd set we used to monitor hbo was essentially a rear projection RCA CRT, with a DTC-100 tuner built in. Probably the same unit you had. If I remember, there were no RGB or component inputs. So the units that are still around can only get OTA HD, is that correct?


The one I had still exists. I sold it to my brother-in-law and he sold it to a bar. It had an "S-video" imput and the ones based on RCA plugs. It also had output RCA plugs so you could hook up a VCR "going and coming". It would only get the old HD, the ones that showed up on two-digit channel numbers. When the current HD came out, I got a traditional box, and the installers had never heard of the built-in deal I had. We hooked the box up via the S-video and deauthorized the built-in box. It did not "intergrate" the OTA channels, you just toggled between "DirecTV", "antenna" and "AUX" (which was what the S-video imput was labeled). So with today's system, theoretically (the bar has it hooked up to cable via the antenna imput) it would still get DirecTV SD and OTA ATSC and any NTSC that is still out there.


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## JosephB (Nov 14, 2005)

James Long said:


> I wonder if it is much different than today with multiple uplink centers. The information on DirecTV's and USSB's servers would need to be shared so a change on one system would affect the others. The only difference I can see is with one company the changes would be done at one office and propagated instead of being done at two or more different points.
> 
> I assume all the data and control streams are still built at each uplink center (and not built at one and sent to the other centers as a data stream). The individual "per transponder" data streams would be best done at the actual uplink center (even if the changes were remotely controlled).
> 
> It is easy to forget how much infrastructure is behind the scenes. All we have to do is turn on the receiver and change channels. All the "where's the channel" and authorization is transparent (to us).


Today I'm sure the CA data is all merged into one big stream. With call centers all over along with the website, those commands probably go into one CA system that would likely send the CA stream to all uplink centers, because no matter what channel you're tuned to, your CA data is always up to date.

I have to think that something similar was going on with DirecTV/USSB. Someone had to be "prime" (IE: who owned the satellite and managed its operations?) and I would imagine the other company simply sent CA data to get sucked up into the stream of data. Otherwise, it doesn't seem like it would be workable.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

JosephB said:


> Today I'm sure the CA data is all merged into one big stream. With call centers all over along with the website, those commands probably go into one CA system that would likely send the CA stream to all uplink centers, because no matter what channel you're tuned to, your CA data is always up to date.
> 
> I have to think that something similar was going on with DirecTV/USSB. Someone had to be "prime" (IE: who owned the satellite and managed its operations?) and I would imagine the other company simply sent CA data to get sucked up into the stream of data. Otherwise, it doesn't seem like it would be workable.


Still a bit confused here;

Why would CA info. need to be conveyed to all uplink centers? 

Wouldn't all CA data as well as all other control information be sent to receivers by uplinking it to certain designated transponders on 101 Ku and possibly mirrored on 119 from one main site (with backup site(s) of course) which maintains (or is certainly in communications with) the subscriber database of authorized customers and their packages?


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

HoTat2 said:


> Why would CA info. need to be conveyed to all uplink centers?


It wouldn't. 101 and 119 (for legacy systems) are all that's needed, just like the guide data. I believe that Castle Rock is where all of the CA is handled.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

HoTat2 said:


> Why would CA info. need to be conveyed to all uplink centers?
> 
> Wouldn't all CA data as well as all other control information be sent to receivers by uplinking it to certain designated transponders on 101 Ku and possibly mirrored on 119 from one main site (with backup site(s) of course) which maintains (or is certainly in communications with) the subscriber database of authorized customers and their packages?


For that to work all receivers would occasionally need to tune to the right transponder on the right satellite to get CA information. It is more robust to place that information on as many transponders as possible - so you don't have to have a customer tune to a specific channel in order to enable or disable their receiver.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

James Long said:


> For that to work all receivers would occasionally need to tune to the right transponder on the right satellite to get CA information.


I have no reason to believe that the CA data is any different than the guide data, which is transmitted on one transponder at 101, and one transponder at 119. Because of the way DirecTV designed the stack plan, that's all that's necessary. And with SWM, 119 isn't even needed anymore.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Jeremy W said:


> I have no reason to believe that the CA data is any different than the guide data, which is transmitted on one transponder at 101, and one transponder at 119. Because of the way DirecTV designed the stack plan, that's all that's necessary. And with SWM, 119 isn't even needed anymore.


Isn't there a trickle EPG?


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

James Long said:


> Isn't there a trickle EPG?


IIRC all guide data beyond 24 hours is a trickle.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

James Long said:


> For that to work all receivers would occasionally need to tune to the right transponder on the right satellite to get CA information. It is more robust to place that information on as many transponders as possible - so you don't have to have a customer tune to a specific channel in order to enable or disable their receiver.


AIUI, all DirecTV receivers actually have a dedicated "Network Tuner" separate from TV programming user accessible ones which operate in the background and invisible to the user that not occasionally, but always tunes to the specific transponder on 101 or 119 carrying the channel guide, CA, system information, and all other necessary control data.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

HoTat2 said:


> AIUI, all DirecTV receivers actually have a dedicated "Network Tuner" separate from TV programming user accessible ones which operate in the background and invisible to the user that not occasionally, but always tunes to the specific transponder on 101 or 119 carrying the channel guide, CA, system information, and all other necessary control data.


I understand it exactly the way you said it.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Jeremy W said:


> I have no reason to believe that the CA data is any different than the guide data, *which is transmitted on one transponder at 101, and one transponder at 119.* Because of the way DirecTV designed the stack plan, that's all that's necessary. And with SWM, 119 isn't even needed anymore.


Just for clarity, I'm told it's actually two designated transponders at 101 and 119, one odd the other even, used for this purpose so the Network Tuner may receive authorization, guide, and system control data regardless of the dish polarities which happen to be selected by TV program tuner(s) at any particular time.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

HoTat2 said:


> AIUI, all DirecTV receivers actually have a dedicated "Network Tuner" separate from TV programming user accessible ones which operate in the background and invisible to the user that not occasionally, but always tunes to the specific transponder on 101 or 119 carrying the channel guide, CA, system information, and all other necessary control data.


Interesting ... that would help get away from the need to put the data on other satellites - although it does cost another RF tuner circuit.


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## JosephB (Nov 14, 2005)

But would that work on a legacy receiver with a phase 3 dish? Suppose you're watching something from 110. Does the switch not work in a way that you only get the sat + polarity combo that you're watching? So if you were on 110 (either way) you would miss the data? I know that immediately following a CA data command it's repeated very often, but it starts to taper off and eventually stops.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

JosephB said:


> But would that work on a legacy receiver with a phase 3 dish? Suppose you're watching something from 110. Does the switch not work in a way that you only get the sat + polarity combo that you're watching? So if you were on 110 (either way) you would miss the data? I know that immediately following a CA data command it's repeated very often, but it starts to taper off and eventually stops.


That dish stacks the 110 feed with the 119 feed ... so one would still have access to a polarity of 119 on the cable while watching a 110 hosted channel.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

JosephB said:


> Suppose you're watching something from 110. Does the switch not work in a way that you only get the sat + polarity combo that you're watching?


The way the stack plan works, you're always seeing 101 or 119 no matter what orbital slot you're actually using. If you're watching 110, you're also seeing 119. The SWM system gets around this by extracting the data from 101, and feeding it on a dedicated channel. That's why the signal strength screen on a SWM system always shows one more channel than the system actually supports.


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## JosephB (Nov 14, 2005)

Ah, got it. That lends even more to the hypothesis that either USSB or DirecTV had to be running a "master" EPG/CA system that the other company fed into.

fake edit: According to Wikipedia, if I'm reading the wording correctly, there was a common company that handled billing, and Hughes (DirecTV) built and operated the satellite, so I'd be willing to bet money that USSB's activations and EPG data flowed through DirecTV's systems.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Is it possible DirecTV ran the "odd" CA/EPG and USSB ran the "even" ones? USSB wouldn't need a secure room if all the work was done elsewhere.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

James Long said:


> Is it possible DirecTV ran the "odd" CA/EPG and USSB ran the "even" ones?


Doubtful. You'd want the information to be identical, and it's easier if it's all being compiled and uplinked by one company. USSB probably just sent their data to DirecTV to integrate and uplink.


James Long said:


> USSB wouldn't need a secure room if all the work was done elsewhere.


Just like I said above, USSB could have handled their stuff and just sent it over to DirecTV for integration and uplink. That's how I'd do it, at least.


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## mluntz (Jul 13, 2006)

I remember USSB. Something like $34.95/month for everything. PPV's $1.99. 1 reciever and dish $700! (ouch!)


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

James Long said:


> Interesting ... that would help get away from the need to put the data on other satellites - although it does cost another RF tuner circuit.


I understand that the special Network Tuner is not a full bandwidth tuner like the user accessible one(s) are, but needs only a narrow-band one for receiving CA, guide, and control data which is cyclically transmitted at comparably much lower baud rates than any TV programming info. statistically multiplexed on the same transponder.

So this may mitigate the cost of equipping all receivers with an addtional dedicated Network Tuner beyond the user ones.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

HoTat2 said:


> I understand that the special Network Tuner is not a full bandwidth tuner like the user accessible one(s) are, but needs only a narrow-band one for receiving CA, guide, and control data which is cyclically transmitted at comparably much lower baud rates than any TV programming info. statistically multiplexed on the same transponder.
> 
> So this may mitigate the cost of equipping all receivers with an addtional dedicated Network Tuner beyond the user ones.


The special tuner would still need to demultiplex the full transponder at it's complete symbol rate in order to pull out the low bandwidth streams for CA/EPG. The point of savings would come after the tuner where the pids are processed into audio/video streams. Up to that point, the tuner would have to be fully functional.

Which is why I would expect the trickle EPG and CA to be on every transponder. Pulling a couple more PIDs off of a transponder already tuned would be a lot easier than having a dedicated tuner just for EPG/CA.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

James Long said:


> Pulling a couple more PIDs off of a transponder already tuned would be a lot easier than having a dedicated tuner just for EPG/CA.


Maybe so (though I don't agree), but that's not how DirecTV's system works.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Jeremy W said:


> Maybe so (though I don't agree), but that's not how DirecTV's system works.


Do you at least agree that the "special network tuner" used for CA/EPG has to be capable of tuning a full bandwidth transponder?


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

James Long said:


> Do you at least agree that the "special network tuner" used for CA/EPG has to be capable of tuning a full bandwidth transponder?


Of course. A transponder is the smallest "piece" of the signal that can be tuned. The PIDs exist past the physical layer that the tuner operates at.


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## JosephB (Nov 14, 2005)

the ICs that carve out a piece of the RF pie is probably not the expensive part of what most people think of when they think 'tuner'. the most expensive part would be the chip(s) doing decoding of the MPEG streams, so a separate network only tuner, even if it pulls a full TP off the wire, isn't going to be as expensive as if it has the capability of tuning and decoding a video channel


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

JosephB said:


> the ICs that carve out a piece of the RF pie is probably not the expensive part of what most people think of when they think 'tuner'. the most expensive part would be the chip(s) doing decoding of the MPEG streams, so a separate network only tuner, even if it pulls a full TP off the wire, isn't going to be as expensive as if it has the capability of tuning and decoding a video channel


I think of the consumer side where one can buy a card that can pull a few (8) PIDs off of a transponder or a more expensive one that can pull off more (32+) PIDs off of a transponder. What is done with those PIDs after being pulled is up to the rest of the receiver.

The DirecTV system seems to require two cards (narrowed down to the actual circuitry needed for each card) to be built in to each receiver - one dedicated to the "network tuner" CA/EPG use and one dedicated to tuning viewable channels. The receiver could be designed with two of the low end "8 PID" cards as long as that was enough to cover all the tuning needs (control channels, alternate audio, etc.). The next step "let's figure out how to turn PIDs into video" is the next set of chips.

It is a choice ... and DirecTV was a pioneer in figuring out how to make multi channel satellite service work so I'm not saying it was a bad choice. Just that their choice required more parts to be in the receiver (two RF to data circuits) instead of just using the PIDs off of the tuner already there for channel reception. It would simplify things at the head end with only four transponders with the CA/EPG to keep in sync.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

James Long said:


> instead of just using the PIDs off of the tuner already there for channel reception.


Is this how Dish does it?  I'm not familiar with the technical ins and outs of their system.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Jeremy W said:


> Is this how Dish does it? I'm not familiar with the technical ins and outs of their system.


I have not looked for their CA (it isn't needed for what I track) but yes ... their "present/next" EPG data for every channel in the system (current program and next program on every channel) plus data tables describing the complete network arrangement (all transponders by frequency, location, symbol rate, encoding, etc.) and the complete channel lineup (transponder location and a lot of other information for all channels) is on every transponder including local spot beams. (One does have to tune the individual transponder to see the PMT that lists what PIDs each channel is using on that transponder.)

The larger EPG data that is downloaded nightly (48 hour) is on a specific transponder on each satellite. This download interrupts any channel viewing. The 9 day EPG (for DVRs) is on one satellite on each arc. But every transponder has the "present/next" EPG information that overrides the last download for every channel transmitted on the system that has an EPG.

I'm pretty sure the CA information is also on every transponder otherwise receivers could not be activated or deactivated without tuning to the right channel to get the tuner to see the transponder with the CA feed.

DISH follows the DVB-S standards so it is easy to see what they are doing with very available equipment (although DSS tuners are available ... and my next DVB-S tuner will likely have DSS built in as well).


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## JosephB (Nov 14, 2005)

James Long said:


> It would simplify things at the head end with only four transponders with the CA/EPG to keep in sync.


Well, especially with things like multiple satellites too. I wonder if they had those ideas in their heads way back in 93/94? Having a dedicated tuner + TP combo in the stack plan with multiple orbital locations means a simple headend situation and more efficient use of bandwidth.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

JosephB said:


> I wonder if they had those ideas in their heads way back in 93/94?


I'm guessing they did. It has lasted quite a while, and SWM is the first distribution technology that has actually excluded legacy receivers. I imagine there will be more changes that exclude legacy receivers, but they had a very good run with the original stuff.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

James Long said:


> The special tuner would still need to demultiplex the full transponder at it's complete symbol rate in order to pull out the low bandwidth streams for CA/EPG. The point of savings would come after the tuner where the pids are processed into audio/video streams. Up to that point, the tuner would have to be fully functional. ...


To be honest, I originally felt the Network Tuner was by necessity full bandwidth like the user ones as well for the very reasons you mention here.

But I was trying to reason based on the lead of the good Doctor's description of the NT as "narrowband" when I first asked about it back in August of last year. ... 

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2562689#post2562689

(see under the "show spoiler" button)


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

ejjames said:


> As my original intent for this thread has obviously run its course, I'd please have the moderators close it, as the last 20 or so posts have nothing to do with the topic.
> Thank You


If you feel the thread has really deviated from topic, shouldn't you first try a more lenient

:backtotop

advisory before asking the moderators to close the thread? There are more questions I would like to ask about some of the scenes in the YouTube video.

If I can figure out a way to capture sill images from it to post that is ...


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

ejjames said:


> As my original intent for this thread has obviously run its course, I'd please have the moderators close it, as the last 20 or so posts have nothing to do with the topic.
> Thank You


I was kind of hoping you'd jump in since you worked at the facility and it was your mention of the secret CA room that spawned the questions over what its use was.

BTW: It was interesting to see the password label on the monitor. There are still systems on closed networks that use simple passwords. The one in your video honored the creator (Hubbard).


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## JosephB (Nov 14, 2005)

Why close the thread? This has been a pretty interesting discussion. Just because it's ventured off from the original discussion of the bridge, it still centers around the architecture of the DirecTV/USSB setup in the past. Everyone should be less quick to close a thread around here.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

JosephB said:


> Why close the thread? This has been a pretty interesting discussion. Just because it's ventured off from the original discussion of the bridge, it still centers around the architecture of the DirecTV/USSB setup in the past. Everyone should be less quick to close a thread around here.


+1

Thought this was a pretty interesting thread as well and was happy to see after James' recent post here he didn't cede to ejjames' request and lock the thread.

Yet at least ....


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

I would like to focus on the need for that equipment at the USSB site. If all the CA/EPG was done via a network tuner focused on a transponder DirecTV broadcast (at the time) why would their CA equipment be on site at a USSB uplink? I'm thinking the systems mirrored each other and some PID(s) used locally (on USSB uplinks) was created by that equipment.

In retrospect, that "secret room" equipment may have been the actual encryption equipment that took unencrypted feeds as an input and turned them into the encrypted feeds needed for uplink. That would make sense. Unless that encryption was being done by other equipment.

I do a fair amount of looking at the signals AFTER they bounce off of a satellite ... following the route from the providers through an uplink center to the satellite is interesting.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

HoTat2 said:


> I was trying to reason based on the lead of the good Doctor's description of the NT as "narrowband" when I first asked about it back in August of last year.


It's narrowband in that it only needs to tune the frequencies that the Ku signals appear in on the coax, which is 950-1450 MHz. It doesn't have to worry about the Ka signals above and below at all, because they don't contain the data. It still has to pull in the full Ku transponder though, there's no way around that.


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## ejjames (Oct 3, 2006)

You're right, let the discussion continue. I'd be happy to answer questions. As far as the secure room, we were told absolutely nothing about it. We had written procedures for seemingly every piece of equipment and situation, but only the VP of operations on our site had access. (A man I respect tremendously, and still keep in touch...he now works with "Wild Blue)

The lack of audio was simply a mistake made by a guy who transferred it. I'd be happy to explain parts of the video, just give a time into the video so I know what to explain. I'm trying to find the original as the final shot of the two 9 meter uplink dishes didn't fit into youtube's 10 minute limit.


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## JosephB (Nov 14, 2005)

Just because DirecTV integrated and uplinked USSB's CA and EPG info doesn't necessarily mean that USSB wouldn't have a 'secure' room like that. The data that got sent to DirecTV from USSB had to come from somewhere. Plus, I bet that room had access to info like the decryption keys that could unlock all channels regardless, not just USSB's


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## ejjames (Oct 3, 2006)

The more I think about that security room, the more that comes back. We had a "floating floor" throughout the facility. Usually 3 feet above concrete and 6 feet on the bridge, so to run cable you remove a square tile and crawl around and pretty much pop up in any other area, but even the security room was surrounded by concrete.

The funny thing is, even if I somehow got access to that room, I don't think me or any other of my coworkers would have the slightest idea what to do. It's not like we were the gang from Hackers. 

By the way, as I'm outside shooting the 5 and 7 meter simulsat and the other 2 outside downlink dishes (used for special events like PPV, where we are pulling it off a sat not in the simulsat lnb package.

Anyway, the brown steel tall building with the two beige fabric panels are where the two 9 meter uplinks are located. Again, at the time, the only inside uplinks in the world. That may have changed by now. In a Minnesota winter it was a godsend because even though we had natural gas heaters for the simulsats, they were designed in California and in the manual it says effective down to 15 degrees "because it really doesn't snow if it's colder than that." So when it was your turn, so took a broom with an extra long handle, switched all programming to the 5 meter, swept off the 7, then reverse the process.

I loved the job and the people and had a dish before working there when we moved out from ND. So I was a a/v geek that knew quite a bit about the company. Once I had my interview and was given the tour, I HAD to work there! It may seem quaint and simple to what D* deals with now, but in the mid '90s it was all new and cutting edge stuff. Simply a great experience.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

ejjames said:


> *You're right, let the discussion continue. I'd be happy to answer questions.* ...


OK ... 

You may start with an explanation of the equipment in these images if you can, and I will successively post more as we go along.

I included the progress bar in the shots from the YouTube video for additional help as to the points the stills were taken.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

And these interesting ones as well if you can ...


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## ejjames (Oct 3, 2006)

HoTat,

I'll try to explain the first set of images tonight.

1. The general electrical panel for the critical functions for the uplink. Although only an electrician could make changes. We knew the nominal readings, and did a complete facility walk around every 8 hours

2. In most shots, there are 2 of everything always having a redundant system. The 2 beige boxes are the 2 UPS units. If we lost power, it would seamlessly switch to the batteries while the diesel generator (housed in its own building outside) started and got up to speed. After about 1 minute, the UPS would then switch from the batteries to the generator.

We did this a few times most summers on a hot day when the electric company was at peak...they would call us to lighten the load. It also gave us a chance to run equipment. We also ran drills at other times of the year.

3. The next three shots are the battery room. If the generator failed, we had about 45 minutes of power, probably double that if we shutdown every non-vital system. Luckily, we never had to find out!

I'll comment on your 2nd post tomorrow.


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## matt (Jan 12, 2010)

ejjames said:


> We did this a few times most summers on a hot day when the electric company was at peak...they would call us to lighten the load.


LOL. How much power were you pulling?


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## ejjames (Oct 3, 2006)

matt said:


> LOL. How much power were you pulling?


I can't remember. Thousands of pieces of gear, 5 or 6 huge cooling units to keep the gear cool. It would circulate air under the floating floor. Even during a Minnesota winter, the plant was still heated by the gear and still required cooling.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

ejjames said:


> HoTat,
> 
> I'll try to explain the first set of images tonight.
> 
> ...


Fine, certainly interesting so far and looking forward to your further explanations later on today;

Won't need to include shots of the 5 and 7 m Simulsat dishes or the other two smaller supplementary ones. Nor of the two large beige flat radome panels since you've already explained their functions earlier.

Also sorry about the blurriness in many of the shots, but for some reason every time I pause the YouTube video so I can use my "SnagIt" screen capture program, the picture almost always blurs.


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## Christopher Gould (Jan 14, 2007)

ejjames said:


> HoTat,
> 2. In most shots, there are 2 of everything always having a redundant system. The 2 beige boxes are the 2 UPS units. If we lost power, it would seamlessly switch to the batteries while the diesel generator (housed in its own building outside) started and got up to speed. After about 1 minute, the UPS would then switch from the batteries to the generator.
> .


I remember reading years ago on how everything in D* uplink centers had a redundant backup. I wonder if they still do that now. Like having 2 encoders for every channel. Look how many local channels there are.


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## JosephB (Nov 14, 2005)

Christopher Gould said:


> I remember reading years ago on how everything in D* uplink centers had a redundant backup. I wonder if they still do that now. Like having 2 encoders for every channel. Look how many local channels there are.


For national channels? No doubt. And maybe even for locals in larger markets, but I'm willing to bet they don't have a fully redundant set for every local that is hot and ready to go. I'd bet they have a few spares that they can swap in if needed, but not up and running. So, if an encoder goes down on CNN, they could get it back in seconds. ABC in North Dakota? Probably going to take a little longer.


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## ejjames (Oct 3, 2006)

HoTat2 said:


> And these interesting ones as well if you can ...


1.This is a wide shot. The 2 racks on the right are tuners and dish controls for the 2 round downlinks, also equipment such as TBCs.

The two left racks are patch panels for the 5 and 7 meter downlinks so any feed can be patched to any receiver.

2. Closeup of the right racks in 1.

3. Tuners, waveform and vector scopes for special feeds.

4.Patch panels from 1.

5. Digicypher network receivers. @ foreach feed. You notice the grey box 5 racks down. We called them "cricket switches" If one rx fai.ed, it would instantly switch to the secondary.

6. More digicyphers. "HBO Plus west"

7. "HBO E & W" videocyphers. Most of the channels were still analog at the time. Maybe 30% digital.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Hey, pretty cool stuff so far, even if the equipment is technically obsolete today and only SD.

Funny, those patch panels look like ethernet switches which would be confusing in this area.

OK, now how about an explanation of this interesting looking gear. There actually multiple shots of just two areas.


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## ejjames (Oct 3, 2006)

Have to make this kind of quick.

1. wide shot.

2. TBCs for every feed. These are typically set once, and usually don't change, hence the plexiglas to prevent accidental "bumps"

3. A real PITA digital playout system for local insertion spots. A company called "Channelmatic" We would encode a spot to a removable hard drive. (It said something like 2.5gig which I guess was a big deal in '94.) We then grabbed the drive by a big handle, "sneaker neted" it to the channelmatic racks, shove the drive in, and had to know UNIX commands on an amber monochrome terminal and cross your fingers.

It reminded me of Dan Akroyd demonstrating how you transfer a ghost from the trap to that holding pen for the EPA in Ghostbusters.

It was truly awful.

4. Channelmatic adcart closeup.

5. One of 2 sets of routers, a "source" and "transmit" router. Would take too much time to explain tonight if you are not familiar with broadcast facilities.

Hope this helps.


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