# Forget it, old people. No more TV for you starting in 2009.



## water1

This captures more reality of the digital conversion than I have ever seen.

http://www.hulu.com/watch/36608/talkshow-with-spike-feresten-cable-psa#s-p1-st-i1


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## davring

That seems to be the confusion of many prople today, most don't have a clue.


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## Mark Holtz

Slight problem.... Low power and translator stations can continue in Analog after February 17th. http://www.lptvanswers.com/


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## reddice

The video is funny however they forget to mention that digital signal can be a real pain to pull in reliable. Someone who can get a reliable analog station would be very frustrating trying to pull a digital station that does not break up all the time.


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## reddice

Mark Holtz said:


> Slight problem.... Low power and translator stations can continue in Analog after February 17th. http://www.lptvanswers.com/


But who would want to watch them. Most of them are religious stations.


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## Pete K.

This is so true. One elderly couple purchased a converter box and hooked it to their rabbit ears. They live in a major metropolitan area where analog signals have never been a problem. Once they installed the converter box, they were getting far fewer channels than before. They won't put up an outdoor antenna and won't purchase cable or satellite. They don't own a computer and wouldn't have a clue how to use one. Come February, they're SOL.



reddice said:


> The video is funny however they forget to mention that digital signal can be a real pain to pull in reliable. Someone who can get a reliable analog station would be very frustrating trying to pull a digital station that does not break up all the time.


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## Cholly

Ummm - I'm in the elderly class, and while the video may be funny to some, I find it to be demeaning to the elderly as a whole. To begin with, there's *always* a telephone number displayed along with the web site info. Secondly, most elderly people still have enough common sense to seek advice from a younger person when they're confused. Finally, the converter boxes do come with instructions and if the elderly person can't fathom the instructions, he/she can still seek help.

It's not just the elderly who may be clueless about the DTV transition. An awful lot of young people can't fathom TV hookups, program a remote, etc.
Granted, I've been involved in electronics for over 50 years, but IMHO, it's a lame attempt at humor and casts the elderly in a bad light.


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## Nick

I'm an old fart and thought it was funny, not demeaning, but then I still have a healthy sense of humor. :lol:

My overall fav old person Youtube video was the elderly woman who mistakenly thought her car had been stolen.

Speaking of which, did you hear the one about the old lady who was getting dressed one morning and suddenly felt a sharp pain in one of her breasts? She went to the mirror and saw that she had tightened her big Harley belt buckle over her left ta-ta.


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## Kansas Zephyr

Pete K. said:


> This is so true. One elderly couple purchased a converter box and hooked it to their rabbit ears. They live in a major metropolitan area where analog signals have never been a problem. Once they installed the converter box, they were getting far fewer channels than before. They won't put up an outdoor antenna and won't purchase cable or satellite. They don't own a computer and wouldn't have a clue how to use one. Come February, they're SOL.


Maybe not.

If those are analog VHF high channels, there is a good chance the digital signal will move from the temporary UHF assignment back to the VHF slot.

Most of the reception problems are UHF versus VHF, or transmit power, not analog versus digital.

Give things some time to stabilize after the analog cut-off. Anything this big will have some hiccups.

Here in South Central Kansas, for example, digital works great. In my basement with only rabbit ears, I can get four stations solid via digital, that have very poor analog reception. One is analog VHF-Low, another VHF-High, and all have UHF digital channels. The VHF-High station is planning to return to their "old" VHF channel with their digital signals on February 18, 2009.


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## Partner45

I didn't look at any video, I just find the title of this thread a slam on what?? Anyone older than the original poster!

Well let's remind him that the AVG. cost to watch his/mine/our DTV is about $1000 a year. Most 'older people' live on fixed incomes and to litterly have to pay for a signal is out of the question. Lets see what he can do with a 'new' TV that is say, 36" and about 7 years old. Do you think an "old" person should spend the money to replace that TV when it actually works? And if NOT you think they should put out more money to pay for someone to deliver a signal to them.

HEY DUDE! get a fri***** life is my answer.


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## Kansas Zephyr

Partner45 said:


> I didn't look at any video, I just find the title of this thread a slam on what?? Anyone older than the original poster!
> 
> Well let's remind him that the AVG. cost to watch his/mine/our DTV is about $1000 a year. Most 'older people' live on fixed incomes and to litterly have to pay for a signal is out of the question. Lets see what he can do with a 'new' TV that is say, 36" and about 7 years old. Do you think an "old" person should spend the money to replace that TV when it actually works? And if NOT you think they should put out more money to pay for someone to deliver a signal to them.
> 
> HEY DUDE! get a fri***** life is my answer.


The video is a clip from a comedy show, trying to make light of the situation.

Context...context, is important here. I don't think the OP is slamming "old people"


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## Mark Holtz

I have dealt with the more seasoned citizens in my 9+ years of tech support. The key to dealing with seasoned citizens is lots... and lots.... and lots.... of patience. Enough to qualify you for sainthood.

(I should know. I was the favorite tech of every 62+ customer at the ISP that I used to work at.)


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## space86

No more TV for you seniors after the analog shutoff date?


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## phrelin

This is one of the funniest videos we (my wife and I) have watched in months. Everyone should realize that this is not a slam on us older people, it's a slam on Congress and the FCC. There are technologically challenged folks in every age group who are going to be struggling with their TV's in February all because someone thought their wasn't enough space in the radio wave spectrum for making money.

I don't understand the following post:


Partner45 said:


> I didn't look at any video, I just find the title of this thread a slam on what?? Anyone older than the original poster!
> 
> Well let's remind him that the AVG. cost to watch his/mine/our DTV is about $1000 a year. Most 'older people' live on fixed incomes and to litterly have to pay for a signal is out of the question. Lets see what he can do with a 'new' TV that is say, 36" and about 7 years old. Do you think an "old" person should spend the money to replace that TV when it actually works? And if NOT you think they should put out more money to pay for someone to deliver a signal to them.
> 
> HEY DUDE! get a fri***** life is my answer.


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## Partner45

phrelin said:


> This is one of the funniest videos we (my wife and I) have watched in months. Everyone should realize that this is not a slam on us older people, it's a slam on Congress and the FCC. There are technologically challenged folks in every age group who are going to be struggling with their TV's in February all because someone thought their wasn't enough space in the radio wave spectrum for making money.
> 
> I don't understand the following post:


Then you just need to read the following post closer and comprehend.


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## rustynails

It was a funny clip! I am considered a senior by some standards and I know about computers, televisions, hddvrs, etc. My sister on the other hand is a lot older than me and she doesn't understand the digital transition. She chooses not to know how to use a computer. I do have to tell her occasionally that since she has cable that she won't have to worry about the transition.


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## Kansas Zephyr

Partner45 said:


> Most 'older people' live on fixed incomes and to *litterly* have to pay for a signal is out of the question. Lets see what he can do with a 'new' TV that is say, 36" and about 7 years old. Do you think an "old" person should spend the money to replace that TV when it actually works? And if NOT you think they should put out more money to pay for someone to deliver a signal to them.


I'm sure you meant literally.

There are D to A TV converter boxes that cost almost nothing using the $40 coupon. (The TR-40 CRA for example is $40)

If you can get a decent analog picture now with rabbit ears, you will, most likely (...there will always be a few exceptions) get solid digital free TV service after February 17, 2009.


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## jacksonm30354

reddice said:


> The video is funny however they forget to mention that digital signal can be a real pain to pull in reliable. Someone who can get a reliable analog station would be very frustrating trying to pull a digital station that does not break up all the time.


Where I grew up, when the cable went out we could only get a clear picture on our NBC station (38) whos' tower was about 10 miles away. 3 (CBS) and 9(ABC) were on a much taller tower 10 miles further south but you could only pull in a black and white or grainy color picture with an indoor tv antenna. 54 (FOX) didn't sign on until the 80's and is just down the street from 38 on a slightly shorter tower. It was difficult to pull in that station too.

I just hooked up an HR20 with OTA antenna in that house and get all stations perfectly with very few drop outs. A VAST improvement over analog reception. Fortunately, all 4 towers are close to a straight line from that location.


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## phrelin

Partner45 said:


> Then you just need to read the following post closer and comprehend.


I did. I don't understand why you didn't look at the video. And I don't understand anyone taking offense at an "old people" reference. It merely means advanced in years. And as class we're not poor. Many are poor, but in this country many children go to bed hungry and can't get medical services.

A greater percentage of people over 60 are "technologically challenged" than in other age groups. So the video used such a person to demonstrate how truly stupid the digital "cutoff" is, a government mandated technological change that will have the most negative effect on the most vulnerable, mostly poor and dependent people.

There is no logical reason to cut off analog for another five years while people discover that another choice for OTA TV has been developing and actually represents something desirable. The cutoff is, to put it simply, a move by covetous corporations enabled by a bunch of mostly old men in Congress several years ago who either (1) really don't care much about what happens in the day-to-day lives of mostly poor and dependent people or (2) are just too dumb to see the big picture.

The video clearly describes the absurdity of the policy. And yeah, there are phone numbers, and government coupons, and boxes that may or may not work in your location. And none of that resolves the fundamental flaws in the policy.

It won't affect my home theater. Nothing in the technological age has completely passed my wife and I by. But we have cousins of our generation that weren't working with computers in 1970 and starting a PC computer service business in 1980. Some of them have marginal incomes.

Many are going to be surprised. No one took their "land lines" away from them before they began to appreciate the value of the cell phone, and they all still have land lines.

Before this video, I never saw anything in the new, spiffy media that truly addressed the impact of this change. And here, we get hung up because the video using humor portrays the difficulty affecting a member of the population that will have the most members struggling - old people, people my age.


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## water1

As the OP let me tell you that my reaction to the clip ( I was in tears) was based on years of experience helping friends make the transition to HD. (over 20) Many of them older than me and I'm pretty old. The most frequent comment I heard while hooking up their systems was "how would the average person be able to do this"? I actually found that age wasn't a determining factor but the willingness to accept a challenge to get a desired result.
I'm glad the clip has sparked a good discussion so let's remember to keep our sense of humor in a dreary time.
Remember "Where's the beef"


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## bidger

If you didn't watch the video, commenting on it is really unfair. Oh, and who stuck the stick up America's @$$?


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## HIPAR

Just went through this in real life with an 85 year old friend:

Chas -- Steve, you know that TV won't work next February.
Steve -- What are talking about?
Chas -- TV will be digital.
Steve -- (Blank Stare) digital?
Chas -- You should buy a new modern set.
Steve -- Why, I'm going to die soon.
Chas -- Let's apply for your converter coupons
Steve -- What's that all about?
Chas -- I'll do it for you, call me when they arrive.
Steve -- Glad you told me, I would have taken the TV to the repair shop.
Chas -- Haven't you seen the announcements?
Steve -- Oh, that's what it's all about.
.
.
Went to Circuit City and bought a Zenith box. I put it in line as he watched. You would have thought I was assembling an 'interocitor'!!

Chas -- Here's how to work it.
Steve -- (Blank stare) I don't see any difference. Why can't I watch like I've been doing for the last 45 years? It's too complicated.

Took the converter out of line, put it back into its box and put it in the closet.

Chas -- We'll worry about it next year.

:nono2: --- CHAS


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## Cholly

Looking back at my original post, I still find the video a lame attempt at humor because it uses an elderly, almost senile woman as its subject. The show could have just as easily gotten the point across using a clueless younger person -- perhaps even better. 
Granted, there is a generational gap insofar as technology is concerned and advertisers are very much involved in demographics, always targeting specific age groups or people of specific religious or political persuasions.. Programming execs are the same way. One need only look at the offerings of various cable channels - think of Fox News and MSNBC for differing political views or TVLand for catering to some of the elderly by running programs from the 1950's and 1960's. :grin: 

But I digress. :backtotop Perhaps I'm a bit overly sensitive when it comes to depicting the elderly. Howver, I always found Tim Conway's old man shuffle to be hilarious (despite my growing tendency to shuffle along) and Mel Brooks and Carl Reiner doing their thousand year old man routine always made me laugh. They're still funny today.


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## phrelin

Cholly said:


> Looking back at my original post, I still find the video a lame attempt at humor because it uses an elderly, almost senile woman as its subject. The show could have just as easily gotten the point across using a clueless younger person -- perhaps even better.
> Granted, there is a generational gap insofar as technology is concerned and advertisers are very much involved in demographics, always targeting specific age groups or people of specific religious or political persuasions.. Programming execs are the same way. One need only look at the offerings of various cable channels - think of Fox News and MSNBC for differing political views or TVLand for catering to some of the elderly by running programs from the 1950's and 1960's. :grin:
> 
> But I digress. :backtotop Perhaps I'm a bit overly sensitive when it comes to depicting the elderly. Howver, I always found Tim Conway's old man shuffle to be hilarious (despite my growing tendency to shuffle along) and Mel Brooks and Carl Reiner doing their thousand year old man routine always made me laugh. They're still funny today.


Me, I shuffle just like Conway's old man and my wife reminds me not to shuffle and to stand up straight as it's making me look old. Well, I'm old.

You did put your finger on one thing about the video - "the elderly, almost senile woman." "Senile." The term is applied to older people and it means a deterioration, an illness, which as we age we all fear more or less.

In fact, a better term has entered the lexicon more recently to describe what is depicted in the video: "clueless", which means "Lacking understanding or knowledge." (Dictionary.com). The problem is, being "clueless" behavior at any age resembles to some degree "senility." It's just that old people get tagged with senility when they are just clueless, which is ageism and is as disturbing as overt racism, sexism, etc.

The nice thing about being old is that while I'm "clueless" about many things my grandchildren experience daily, I am able to put into perspective things they are "clueless" about because of lack of experience.


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## leww37334

What I have done (and I ask that everyone consider): 

I have posted a flyer at my church and at every local supermarket stating that I will help anyone who needs help with their TV after the transition, and I will do it for free.

Think about this as what we used to do, neighbor helping neighbor.

And yes I will be 60 next March.


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## n3ntj

This whole digital conversion is often full of misinformation and, sometimes, lies. I think 80% of people have no clue what the conversion is or what it means and another 10% don't even know a change is coming. Should be a VERY interesting February 2009!

Not sure how so many people seem confused when, if they have satellite TV or cable TV, they don't have to do anything. Only if they have an antenna.. then people ask "what if I have rabbit ears?" Well, dimwit, rabbit ears is a type of antenna!

Just like how political ads say one party or one person is trying to take away old people's medications.. I'm surprised no ads have come out saying that someone or the FCC is trying to take away old people's TV.

Just for fun, go to your local big box store and ask about the conversion.. be prepared to be entertained.


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## Mark Holtz

Oh, great.... guess what I'll be doing during the evenings following February 19th. 

The older you get, the more you resist change. When you mention digital, some of their eyes glaze over, and boom, they tune out the rest of the DTV commercial. Some of them have vision problems, so they can't see the difference in the picture. So, what is the difference then?

My mother, the technical support nightmare, asked me about the converter boxes the other day. My response? Don't worry about it. The signal is already converted by DirecTV.


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## Mark Holtz

reddice said:


> But who would want to watch them. Most of them are religious stations.


My buddy in Fort Smith, Arkansas, would disagree with you on that point. Some of the more mountainous areas of the United States use translators to get their signal out.


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## Bill R

leww37334 said:


> What I have done (and I ask that everyone consider):
> 
> I have posted a flyer at my church and at every local supermarket stating that I will help anyone who needs help with their TV after the transition, and I will do it for free.
> 
> Think about this as what we used to do, neighbor helping neighbor.
> 
> And yes I will be 60 next March.


Lew,

I commend you for that. Very generous of you.

I haven't gone quite that far but I have ordered and hooked up DTV boxes for two of my neighbors and have hooked up two others for my neighbors who were concerned that they would get electrocuted if they tried to hook up their boxes.

And I found that age doesn't matter. Some people get it, other don't. And I am a few years older than you.


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## HIPAR

n3ntj said:


> This whole digital conversion is full of misinformation and lies.


It's not that evil. Mostly everyone in the prime service area of a TV station should retain service. Those who will have problems are under the 'digital cliff'. Nobody has told them the straight story.

--- CHAS


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## Mikey

I saw a digital cutover public service announcement at the end of the Lawrence Welk Show on PBS last night. That was the perfect place and time for it. Seniors are the target audience, and the message was clear.


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## Pete K.

A wunerful...a wunerful. Now, the Lennon Sisters sing, "Baby, I'm So Confused".


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## Fontano

Around here, You usually can't go one hour without seeing a commercial about the cutoff during the daytime programming.

It is included in all the local news broadcasts as well.
In addition a lot of the local retailers have signage and displays that are difficult to miss.

I know my grandparents have already converted all their TV's with the new boxes.
And they are actually very happy about it, as the picture qualty went "through the roof" according to my grandmonther (both of them are in their 80's)

This holiday shopping season, just about every store should do this:
In all the bags, include a notice about the cutoff. Or on the receipts.
Even if it isn't an electronic store. Target, Walmart, Kmart, Sears, JCP, Kohls, Home Depot, Menards, Best Buy, CC, Safeway, Albertsons, and so on.

ALL retailers should include something.
Also the newspapers starting in about December, should have something on the FRONT PAGE of the paper. Could be a simple: Are you ready for the DIGITAL TV transition in February? If not, see page x.

Kids should get a notice sent home from the schools, just a simple flyer.

During the election results next week, they should have a bug showing up during all the coverage. There are so many avenues that haven't been tapped into yet.


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## n3ntj

Yeah, every night during Scrubs (syndicated on the local CW station) and during Jeopardy airs a crawl about the digital conversion. I didn't know that many old people watched Scrubs.


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## audiomaster

reddice said:


> The video is funny however they forget to mention that digital signal can be a real pain to pull in reliable. Someone who can get a reliable analog station would be very frustrating trying to pull a digital station that does not break up all the time.


Yes even if they are getting it off Dish Network HD satellites!! Especially audio!


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## kocuba

Maybe they'll trust Kevin and Norm...

http://www.pbs.org/digitaltv/watch_online.php


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## ARKDTVfan

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: That's hilarious!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## tsmacro

Trust me it's not just old people, there's enough cluelessness to go around for all age groups. I had a man in my office earlier this week who was in the all too common group who believes digital = HD. He believed that all those commercials he was seeing were telling everyone that all television programming would be in HD starting February, and he thought it meant every channel, not just OTA, but cable and satellite too. The reason why he was in my office is he was asking why he was paying extra for HD programming he couldn't understand how Dish was "getting away with this" since everything was going to be HD in February anyway, how could they justify charging extra for something that's happening automatically anyway. After I explained to him what was actually happening in February he came back with, "well why do I pay extra for HD, I have an HD tv?" At which point I just gave him a glazed over-look and he countinued to explain that he was under the impression that when you own an HD tv that everything you watch on it is automatically already HD. So then I had to explain away that fantasy to him and I still don't think he got it, he left giving me a look like I was trying "pull one over on him" and that he was pretty sure that he was still right and I was the one who was confused. Oh and yeah this guy was easily under 40, so back to my original point cluelessness knows no age! :lol:


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## Nick

Well, I'll be 70 in two days (Nov 7) and I get mildly irritated with those who equate age with ignorance about matters technical. In fact, I would venture that it is those who say such things who are themselves ignorant for making such assumptions. Among a few other things I have learned in my 69 years and 363 days on the planet is to beware of those who attempt to paint pictures with a broad brush.

Now, who want to talk about brain surgery? :grin:


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## HIPAR

Nick said:


> Well, I'll be 70 in two days (Nov 7) and I get mildly irritated with those who equate age with ignorance about matters technical. :grin:


Nick, I'm pulling for your being able to say that when you're 85.

--- CHAS


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## Nick

Thanks, and I'm pulling for me to _still_ be around when I'm 85!


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## kocuba

Nick said:


> Well, I'll be 70 in two days (Nov 7) and I get mildly irritated with those who equate age with ignorance about matters technical. In fact, I would venture that it is those who say such things who are themselves ignorant for making such assumptions. Among a few other things I have learned in my 69 years and 363 days on the planet is to beware of those who attempt to paint pictures with a broad brush.
> 
> Now, who want to talk about brain surgery? :grin:


Nick,

An early happy Birthday!!! :hb:

I will be celebrating one the day after. But in comparison I'm still a young pup(40). Hope I'm still as technically inclined as you when I reach your age.


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## Nick

Thanks, Dave.
My regards and very best wishes to you on your day! :goodjob:


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## scooper

I think the name of the topic needs to be changed from 
"Forget it, old people. No more TV for you starting in 2009. " to
"Forget it, stupid people. No more TV for you starting in 2009." 



And Nick - I hope I'm still giving the youngsters heck like you are when I'm your age - Happy Birthday (early) !


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## cocoario

Great offer!! I wish you could help in our part of the country....My parents included.


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## Nick

scooper said:


> I think the name of the topic needs to be changed from
> "Forget it, old people. No more TV for you starting in 2009. " to
> "Forget it, stupid people. No more TV for you starting in 2009."
> 
> 
> 
> And Nick - I hope I'm still giving the youngsters heck like you are when I'm your age - Happy Birthday (early) !


I don't need to give 'em heck, Scooper -- just knowing they can't keep up with the old man is reward enough for me. 

My (belated) thanks to you for your (early) birthday wishes. Overall, it was a good one -- many calls, cards and emails, and a special gift from the gf  -- in all, a great day!


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## Cholly

Nick: Belated happy birthday, youngster! (Not revealing my own elderly status other than to say you're just a kid!) :lol:


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## audiomaster

Went to Circuit City and bought a Zenith box. I put it in line as he watched. You would have thought I was assembling an 'interocitor'!!

Chas -- Here's how to work it.
Steve -- (Blank stare) I don't see any difference. Why can't I watch like I've been doing for the last 45 years? It's too complicated.>>

I hope you told him to remember to say "Klatu, Barada, Nicto" when the big guy shows up!


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## Nick

The stupid, the ignorant, the clueless -- they walk among us. 

Makes me wonder who are the real aliens???


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