# Dual live buffers coming...



## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

...to the HR20

http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=650398&postcount=169

Wagers on whether this trickles down to the R15?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

walters said:


> ...to the HR20
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=650398&postcount=169
> 
> Wagers on whether this trickles down to the R15?


I did say that are investigating the best way to implement it...
Doesn't mean they have found one or that it is imminent.

The problem is the R15 and the HR20 are very different beasts underneath the common UI. I do hope they bring it to both platforms but....


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

IMO, we'll never see it on the R15.


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## tbranan (Sep 3, 2006)

I am with wolfpack.. Why would they spend time on the 15 when the HR 20 seems to be their concern now.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

tbranan said:


> I am with wolfpack.. Why would they spend time on the 15 when the HR 20 seems to be their concern now.


Because not everyone out there is going to want to pay the premium cost for an HR20 vs an R15


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

Not to mention it's been stated that they have 2 different teams working on the 2 different DVRs.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Because not everyone out there is going to want to pay the premium cost for an HR20 vs an R15


OK, if DTV hasn't already given up on the R15 why haven't we either received a new update in time for the new fall season that fixes all the First Run/Repeat problems? Why haven't we received an update that fixes the problems introduced in the last update or two dealing with playblack of black screens? Or, why haven't you received any word of a pending update now in Beta? Word is that some have 10D4 which is only one build up from the current release. That doesn't indicate much progress in my mind.

Meanwhile the HR20 is getting a release every week or two. The R15 also has meny problems that have already been fixed on the HR20.

I know not everyone wants to buy a HR20, but when did DTV ever become concerned with what their customers need or want? Both the R15 and the HR20 are prime examples that DTV hasn't taken the time needed to prepare new DVRs for the public. Neither in design or functionality nor in proper testing.

Plus, I don't think they could implement dual live buffers on the R15 if they wanted. Again just my opinion. 10 months of the R15 and it's still not working as a stable DVR. We won't see much of anything new on the R15 and I'd be surprised if even basics such as FR/Repeats and Limits are addressed on this unit before it's replacement is introduced at next years CES.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Clint Lamor said:


> Not to mention it's been stated that they have 2 different teams working on the 2 different DVRs.


Which means absolutely nothing.

Sure, two teams. Team 1 for the HR20 consisting of 20-25 software engineers and Team 2 consisting of 2-3 XTV contractors working on the R15.

My point here being that having two teams means nothing unless you know the specifics of the teams.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

Why is that? When a product is released then a company usually downsizes the team as it doesn't take as many developers to fix as it does to fully create. Yes I know it has many problems and they could use a large team but point is they have a team of developers working on it regardless of the size.



Wolffpack said:
 

> Which means absolutely nothing.
> 
> Sure, two teams. Team 1 for the HR20 consisting of 20-25 software engineers and Team 2 consisting of 2-3 XTV contractors working on the R15.
> 
> My point here being that having two teams means nothing unless you know the specifics of the teams.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Doesn't matter if there are two teams or twenty teams working on each unit. I just stated IMO we won't see dual live buffers on the R15 and may or may not see it's biggest problems ever fixed.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

I would probably agree with the Dual Buffer part 



Wolffpack said:


> Doesn't matter if there are two teams or twenty teams working on each unit. I just stated IMO we won't see dual live buffers on the R15 and may or may not see it's biggest problems ever fixed.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> OK, if DTV hasn't already given up on the R15 why haven't we either received a new update in time for the new fall season that fixes all the First Run/Repeat problems? Why haven't we received an update that fixes the problems introduced in the last update or two dealing with playblack of black screens? Or, why haven't you received any word of a pending update now in Beta? Word is that some have 10D4 which is only one build up from the current release. That doesn't indicate much progress in my mind.
> 
> Meanwhile the HR20 is getting a release every week or two. The R15 also has meny problems that have already been fixed on the HR20.


I still don't know what 10D4 is about.
There is an update for the R15 comming, not sure of the exact time frame.

As for the HR20...
There has been TWO updates, one of which was "originally" the release but was held onto for a week or so, for more testing... and the BE release.

Not too different from when the R15 was first release.

As of right now, I know there are a bunch of software releases in the testing cycle:
The H20's (two versions, H20-100; H20-600)
The D10's (I think there are 4 models there)
The D11's (I think there are 3 models there)
The HR10-250
The HR20
and of course, the R15 (which as we know has two models)

The R15 hasn't been abandond... not by a long shot.


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## morgantown (Nov 16, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> The problem is the R15 and the HR20 are very different beasts underneath the common UI. I do hope they bring it to both platforms but....


But....you don't think it is going to happen on the R15.

Me thinks I made a good decision in placing the R15 back in the box it came in a few weeks after I got it. Should I be wrong, it is still in a closet somewhere...

I'd hope that DTV would pay as much attention to the SD users as the HD ones (in terms of the dual buffers being a missing feature -- only recently noticed by DTV).

Sheesh...


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

morgantown said:


> But....you don't think it is going to happen on the R15.
> 
> Me thinks I made a good decision in placing the R15 back in the box it came in a few weeks after I got it. Should I be wrong, it is still in a closet somewhere...
> 
> ...


I think they will bring it to both platforms... .just don't know if it will be the same implementation, or released at the same time.

If they bring it one, I am pretty sure they will bring it to both.


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## morgantown (Nov 16, 2005)

Thanks for the update.  The "if" statement stil give me pause though...


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> The R15 hasn't been abandond... not by a long shot.


What do you see as the future of the R-15 being its nearing the one year release date ? Next November when its been released for two years do you still see it being the only SD DirecTV Plus DVR ?


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> As of right now, I know there are a bunch of software releases in the testing cycle:
> The H20's (two versions, H20-100; H20-600)
> The D10's (I think there are 4 models there)
> The D11's (I think there are 3 models there)


Wow, so they can't even get basic non-DVR receivers right? I seem to recall my RCA circa 1996 working flawlessly. Slow as a dog, but no bugs.

BTW, they were so interested in standardizing the platform from the end-user's point of view (a stupid idea, IMO, for devices that have different purposes). What they should have done is standardized the platform from the developer's point of view. All of these boxes should have been made essentially the same, with the exception of certain components (taken care of by device drivers).


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## Mavrick (Feb 1, 2006)

While I would like to see the dual live buffers and hope one day to see them I am getting sorta used to not having them for I hardly watch any live tv anyway.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

walters said:


> Wow, so they can't even get basic non-DVR receivers right? I seem to recall my RCA circa 1996 working flawlessly. Slow as a dog, but no bugs.
> 
> BTW, they were so interested in standardizing the platform from the end-user's point of view (a stupid idea, IMO, for devices that have different purposes). What they should have done is standardized the platform from the developer's point of view. All of these boxes should have been made essentially the same, with the exception of certain components (taken care of by device drivers).


Even those circa 1996 ones got firmware updates.

I think this is the first time in over a year, the non-dvrs are getting an update.


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## cybok0 (Jan 5, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> Doesn't matter if there are two teams or twenty teams working on each unit. I just stated IMO we won't see dual live buffers on the R15 and may or may not see it's biggest problems ever fixed.


D* knows most of there money comes from people with hi-def instead of SD ($400 for a HD receiver vs. $99 for a SD receiver), there gonna spend most of there time and effort on the HR20.

Hd equipment trumps SD equipment.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

cybok0 said:


> D* knows most of there money comes from people with hi-def instead of SD ($400 for a HD receiver vs. $99 for a SD receiver), there gonna spend most of there time and effort on the HR20.
> 
> Hd equipment trumps SD equipment.


"Most" of their subscribers are SD only like 13 million or so (out of the 16 million)
So most of their money come from the SD...

BUT... Their target audience is primarily those that are switching to HD and have HD already. Plus they would like those that are SD customers to become HD customers.

The non-hd standalone receivers are pretty much given away for free...

But regardless, the "bulk" of their subscribers are SD....


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## cbeckner80 (Apr 19, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I think this is the first time in over a year, the non-dvrs are getting an update.


Not quite correct. I got an update about a month or so ago on my H20


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## cybok0 (Jan 5, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> BUT... Their target audience is primarily those that are switching to HD and have HD already. Plus they would like those that are SD customers to become HD customers.


Thats my point, getting people to spend more money.

If people have the money to chose between the R15 or HR20 there gonna chose HR20, so there gonna put more time into the HR20.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

They issue updates on receivers long after release. I got an update to my Hughes E-86 HD box at least 3 years after it was released. I've had that thing for nearly 5 years and it's still going strong as my only HD box until the HR20 arrives. It's guide is slow as dirt but works.


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## mikewolf13 (Jan 31, 2006)

Bobman said:


> What do you see as the future of the R-15 being its nearing the one year release date ? Next November when its been released for two years do you still see it being the only SD DirecTV Plus DVR ?


Personally. i believe the R15 will be the *only and last *SD DirecTV Plus DVR.

I do not beleive that they will(can?) ever completely fix the R15. I beleive that as usual, the cost of the HR20 will drop, that DTV will want to give all customers HD capable receivers/DVRs.

I suspect that come Nov 2008 THe only DVR on the market for DTV will be the HR20 and upgrades from the R15 or any other DVR wil be dirt cheap.

It probably will become more cost effective to give away HR20s especially as that will lure people into more expensive programming packages than to ship and re-ship Bad R15s, repeatedly create and test software upgrades for a product that for whatever reason will never work properly.

I think we see that DTV historically and presently will give away any receiver to a profitable customer. I would be shocked if any subscriber with HD and DVR and a spots or premium package or two and the "protection" plan could not get a free HR20. It may depend on the CSR, but it can be done.

THe only reason DTV puts any restraint on it is enursing it does not give expensive hardware to high-risk (creditwise) subscribers.

Look at SAC..it's what $640? So for the cost of a HD DVR if they can keep a highly profitable customer they will. For those of us moderately profitable, they will try to push the low risk ones into the most profitable packages, and the high risk ones will pay premiums for equipment.


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

mikewolf13 said:


> Personally. i believe the R15 will be the *only and last *SD DirecTV Plus DVR.


I was tossing some ideas like that around before as that is the way all the cable companies work.


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