# Help me pick a new AV receiver, folks



## farmermike

Now that I have my satellite situation resolved (switched from DirecTV to Dish) I'm ready to buy a new HDTV and AV receiver (and probably a BluRay player).

All my hardware is kinda old: Sony KP-57HW40 rear projection TV, Sony STR-DE675 receiver, neither of which have HDMI. I also have an older Sony DVD player, a VCR and AppleTV.

I know which TV I'm gonna buy: Samsung HL67A750. I think rear projection gives a lot of bang for the buck and since I have a 57" set now, I sure don't want to downsize to go with an LCD or plasma.

But I can't decide on an AV receiver. I like Sony products a lot, and they've trotted out some super new receivers, but I don't want to spend $2K on a receiver after I just laid out $2K for a TV. 

I also like Onkyo and Denon, but don't know as much about them.

Since I'm going to be buying so many new components I guess I might as well buy new speakers, too. I have a set of Polk Audio speakers that are decent, but I might as well upgrade everything to 7.1.

So, let's say I want 7.1 surround, lots of HDMI connectivity (4-6) and really good video processing and want to spend $500 to $1K. What are my best bets? I'd be willing to go more than $1K if the difference between a $999 unit and a $1,299 unit was substantial, but I'd like to stay under a grand if possible.

Thanks in advance for any assistance.


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## phrelin

This is a tough choice. I love my Yamaha RXV2700 AV Receiver, but it only has 3 HDMI inputs.

Every one in your price range lacks something, but the Sony STR DA5300ES looks good. Sony is selling refurbs for $899.95 which is 53% of the original MSRP.


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## BattleZone

Sony STR-DG920 is the top standard-line model at $600. 4 HDMI inputs, 1080p (both 60p and 24p), deep color, etc. Decodes all audio formats via HDMI, including the new HD and lossless codecs. Upconverts SD sources and converts component to HDMI. 7.1 support, etc.

If you need something higher-grade, Sony's ES line will support most of these features and more, and uses higher-end internal components. Price goes up fast, though.


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## dave29

i suggest the onkyo 606 or 706. here is the 706
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882120107


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## Sirshagg

dave29 said:


> i suggest the onkyo 606 or 706. here is the 706
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882120107


I second the Onkyo 606. I've got one of these and I'd say it's goy the same type of bang for the buck as the HL67A750 - also has 4 HDMI inputs.


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## farmermike

Sirshagg said:


> I second the Onkyo 606. I've got one of these and I'd say it's goy the same type of bang for the buck as the HL67A750 - also has 4 HDMI inputs.


I looked into the 606, and although it has great audio, including decoders for Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio, CNet did not like the way it handled video. In fact they called its video processing "subpar." So that's not a good thing.


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## farmermike

phrelin said:


> Every one in your price range lacks something, but the Sony STR DA5300ES looks good. Sony is selling refurbs for $899.95 which is 53% of the original MSRP.


I looked at the 5300 and liked what I saw, but it's last year's model, so even though you can buy it refurbed for real cheap, you are getting last year's technology. It's been superceded by the 5400, but it has an MSRP of $2K (ouch).

I didn't understand one thing CNet said:

_It packs a walloping six HDMI inputs, which is more than we've seen on any other receiver in this price range, and it comes with onboard decoding for the latest high-resolution soundtracks, namely Dolby TrueHD, and DTS-HD Master Audio (although you can't use that decoding yet)._

What do they mean that it has the decoding but you can't use it? I don't get it.

Yeah, I think the Sony ES series looks like some really serious AV tech, but boy are they pricey.


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## harsh

I recommend against lots of money spent on video processing in the AV receiver. Spend the money on a better TV or an outboard processor.

I'm personally feeling a renewed interest in the offerings of Pioneer and Yamaha recently. The recurring Denon HDMI issues have soured me on that brand.

In any event, I wouldn't buy anything until you've seen what comes out of Las Vegas in about a month.


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## Sirshagg

farmermike said:


> I looked into the 606, and although it has great audio, including decoders for Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio, CNet did not like the way it handled video. In fact they called its video processing "subpar." So that's not a good thing.


Their issue in this regard has to do strictly with scaling and upconverting composite, svideo, or component from from lower resolutions such as 480i to 1080p over the HDMI output so that you only need to run one HDMI cable to the TV. For me, all my devices are HDMI so this is a non-issue. Lets say I connect my Wii to this TV I'll just run component connections to the TV and it will still not be an issue.

All they are really saying is that the scaling/upconverting is really cool but it doesn't perform that great. It's easy to work around by not asking the receiver to do it.


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## harsh

Which begs the question about buying an upscaling A/V receiver in the first place. If it does a "sub-par" job, what's the point?


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## Sirshagg

harsh said:


> Which begs the question about buying an upscaling A/V receiver in the first place. If it does a "sub-par" job, what's the point?


Fo me it was not even a consideration when buying the receiver since I will never use the feature.


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## smiddy

This one is likely perfect for you: http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/4484.asp


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## spartanstew

For $1000, here's my list:

1. Pioneer Elite VSX-03TXH
2. Denon AVR-989 
3. Onkyo TX-SR876


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## MadManNBama

Some of these suggestions are ok, but I'd go with Onkyo as IMHO Sony recievers suck and are overpriced. In fact the newer version of my reciver the Onkyo TX-SR706 is on sale at Crutchfield.com or Newegg.com for around $599 or less and is THX certified. The SR606 is even cheaper and both have HDMI passthrough and upconversion on the 706 model. 

For your speakers, it would depend on which Polk speakers you have now. I have Monitor 30's and the CSi for fronts and surrounds and the PSW12 sub. Not the best sound, but pretty solid for my home theater in my Man Cave. 

I shake my wife out of the house when watching a movie with lots of action or The Unit on CBS. The Monitors and even the floor standing models are on sale at newegg.com also, so for about $1200 or less you can be enjoying some good home theater. 

Then there is a good Mirage set of speakers on sale at many websites and most Polk speakers if you want to go higher than the Monitor series.

Just shop around online and fine a good deal. Now is the right time to upgrade.


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## jlast01

Sirshagg said:


> I second the Onkyo 606. I've got one of these and I'd say it's goy the same type of bang for the buck as the HL67A750 - also has 4 HDMI inputs.


I like the *Onkyo 606* as well... Lots of research prior to purchase, and now six months, no problems. And I agree, video processing is not an issue. If you'll feed it HD, don't concern yourself with upconverting.

I'll be surprised if you hear anything negative about the Onkyo receivers from anyone who's had them. I've used Sony and Onkyo receivers.

Look at the PS3 for Bluray... Upconverting with the PS3 is great for SD dvds.

Look at B&W speakers... Expensive, but beautiful sound.

We have a 60" Sony LCD/projection TV, but wish we had gone with a slightly smaller plasma.


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## wilbur_the_goose

I have a Denon AVR-5803A that I bought on eBay fo $1K in early 2008. Retaled for $5K a few years ago.

Honestly, I'd go the used route.


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## PokerJoker

_I'll be surprised if you hear anything negative about the Onkyo receivers from anyone who's had them. I've used Sony and Onkyo receivers._

Well - I have an 875. The current 876 is almost identical.

It runs so hot that it will eventually go into shutdown if placed inside any kind of cabinet, even one with open sides. Same thing will happen if you have anything stacked on top of it. I had to place it out in the open, on top of the cabinet, to get enough cooling.

And I'm not the only one with this problem. Read the many threads on the issue.

It does sound nice, I'll grant you that.

Keith


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## bobukcat

farmermike said:


> I looked at the 5300 and liked what I saw, but it's last year's model, so even though you can buy it refurbed for real cheap, you are getting last year's technology. It's been superceded by the 5400, but it has an MSRP of $2K (ouch).
> 
> I didn't understand one thing CNet said:
> 
> _It packs a walloping six HDMI inputs, which is more than we've seen on any other receiver in this price range, and it comes with onboard decoding for the latest high-resolution soundtracks, namely Dolby TrueHD, and DTS-HD Master Audio (although you can't use that decoding yet)._
> 
> What do they mean that it has the decoding but you can't use it? I don't get it.
> 
> Yeah, I think the Sony ES series looks like some really serious AV tech, but boy are they pricey.


Crutchfield is currently offering the 4300 (which only has 3 HDMI inputs but may be enough) for $700 (non-refurb) and free shipping. I'm not a big Sony Receiver fan but for that price it has me considering it.


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## spartanstew

farmermike said:


> I didn't understand one thing CNet said:
> 
> _It packs a walloping six HDMI inputs, which is more than we've seen on any other receiver in this price range, and it comes with onboard decoding for the latest high-resolution soundtracks, namely Dolby TrueHD, and DTS-HD Master Audio (although you can't use that decoding yet)._
> 
> What do they mean that it has the decoding but you can't use it? I don't get it.


That review is from a year and a half ago. At that time there weren't any BD discs with lossless audio IIRC.


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## jlast01

PokerJoker said:


> _I'll be surprised if you hear anything negative about the Onkyo receivers from anyone who's had them. I've used Sony and Onkyo receivers._
> 
> Well - I have an 875. The current 876 is almost identical.
> 
> It runs so hot that it will eventually go into shutdown if placed inside any kind of cabinet, even one with open sides. Same thing will happen if you have anything stacked on top of it. I had to place it out in the open, on top of the cabinet, to get enough cooling.
> 
> And I'm not the only one with this problem. Read the many threads on the issue.
> 
> It does sound nice, I'll grant you that.
> 
> Keith


I don't disagree with that... My Onkyo runs hot too. But it hasn't been a big issue for me.


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## phrelin

As I said:


phrelin said:


> This is a tough choice.


I suggested the Sony refurb because you get more (like HDMI's) for the buck, plus other features still not offered on many sub-$999 2008 or 2009 models. And many of the peformance problems that are included at no extra charge in every new model have been fixed.:sure:

But truthfully I don't know what I'd buy today. When I go the Yamaha site (because I like my Yamaha) and run a comparison on all the current models they list, I go nuts trying to figure out which features I might want "someday." But the RX-V1800 at $894.08 at Amazon has 4 HDMI inputs.


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## russdog

Do any of these provide HDMI pass-through without the receiver turned on?
I ask because I often want just normal TV, and only use the good sound for certain things.


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## spartanstew

I doubt it russdog.

You could always hook your cable/satellite box to your TV with secondary connections. 

Why would you not want to use your sound system for everything though? I've never used the speakers on my living room set. Heck, we even watch Dora in surround sound.


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## smiddy

The Denon will allow you to pass-thru, but it has to be on, due to the switching circuitry. I've done this in the past just to test the Sharp TV crackling noise, the Denon doesn't present it audio wise, where the Sharp TV does if I pass-thru.


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## dave29

Sirshagg said:


> Fo me it was not even a consideration when buying the receiver since I will never use the feature.


agreed


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## kevinturcotte

Sirshagg said:


> I second the Onkyo 606. I've got one of these and I'd say it's goy the same type of bang for the buck as the HL67A750 - also has 4 HDMI inputs.


Will this accept and pass the Hr2x's 1080p signal?


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## Mark Holtz

farmermike said:


> All my hardware is kinda old: Sony STR-DE675 receiver, neither of which have HDMI.
> 
> Since I'm going to be buying so many new components I guess I might as well buy new speakers, too. I have a set of Polk Audio speakers that are decent, but I might as well upgrade everything to 7.1.


If it's in great shape, I wouldn't mind you giving me your Sony receiver. :grin:

But, why would you want to replace the speakers? Aren't Polk Audio excellent speakers? And, I don't believe speakers wear out.


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## Sirshagg

kturcotte said:


> Will this accept and pass the Hr2x's 1080p signal?


With the TV and receiver off. but the HR20 on i turned on the TV and had a message "check signal cable" so I'd say no, the receiver muyst be on.


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## spartanstew

Mark Holtz said:


> But, why would you want to replace the speakers? Aren't Polk Audio excellent speakers? And, I don't believe speakers wear out.


Depends on the polk speakers. I wouldn't call THESE excellent. I wouldn't even call them decent.


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## Lord Vader

dave29 said:


> i suggest the onkyo 606 or 706. here is the 706
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882120107


Or even the 806 if you want the largest number of HDMI inputs I've ever seen on an A/V unit!


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## Ken S

I've been very happy to date with my Denon 4306. However the web interface is a bit rudimentary and the documentation is horrendous.

The feature set is quite nice and has also improved with the more recent models. iPod control, internet radio, etc.


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## farmermike

MadManNBama said:


> Some of these suggestions are ok, but I'd go with Onkyo as IMHO Sony recievers suck and are overpriced. In fact the newer version of my reciver the Onkyo TX-SR706 is on sale at Crutchfield.com or Newegg.com for around $599 or less and is THX certified. The SR606 is even cheaper and both have HDMI passthrough and upconversion on the 706 model.


Just checked newegg.com:

Onkyo TXS706B $549

Onkyo TXS806 $649 free ship on both

Seems like cheap prices on both. Does the 806 have enough additional features to justify the extra $100?

I have no objection to Onkyo, I've just kind of been a Sony fan for years, although I'm going Samsung for my new TV. I'm not wedded to any particular brand, but the reviews I've read of the new higher end Sony ES series receivers have been very, very glowing.


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## farmermike

jlast01 said:


> Look at the PS3 for Bluray... Upconverting with the PS3 is great for SD dvds.
> 
> Look at B&W speakers... Expensive, but beautiful sound.


I've been looking into the PS3 and even though I don't have much interest in game consoles, it's a helluva deal and the reviews of its Bluray performance are very good.

I've never heard of B&W speakers. B&O, yes, but not B&W.

BTW, why are you sorry you didn't buy a plasma?


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## farmermike

jlast01 said:


> I don't disagree with that... My Onkyo runs hot too. But it hasn't been a big issue for me.


When you say hot, how hot do you mean? I have one of those typical open-backed cabinets with a glass door. I really wouldn't want to put it on top of the cabinet because I have the ViP 722 up there and that runs a little warm, too (although not nearly so warm as the HR20 I used to use).

If these Onkyos run too hot to put in any cabinet that's a definite non-starter for me.


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## farmermike

PokerJoker said:


> _I'll be surprised if you hear anything negative about the Onkyo receivers from anyone who's had them. I've used Sony and Onkyo receivers._
> 
> Well - I have an 875. The current 876 is almost identical.
> 
> It runs so hot that it will eventually go into shutdown if placed inside any kind of cabinet, even one with open sides. Same thing will happen if you have anything stacked on top of it. I had to place it out in the open, on top of the cabinet, to get enough cooling.
> 
> And I'm not the only one with this problem. Read the many threads on the issue.


Is there a fix for this? I have a typical open-backed cabinet with a glass door that I have all my components in except for the ViP722, which sits on top. I think I'd like to keep it there because it runs a little warm, although not nearly as warm as the HR20 I used to use (that actually ran HOT).

i'd hate to have to rule out Onkyo entirely because of this issue, but putting it on top of the cabinet is a non-starter for me.


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## spartanstew

farmermike said:


> Seems like cheap prices on both. Does the 806 have enough additional features to justify the extra $100?


That's up to you. the 806 has more power (130W compared to 100W), extra THX processing and certification, a detachable power cord and a couple of other things.

You can compare them directly at onkyousa.com


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## farmermike

PokerJoker said:


> _I'll be surprised if you hear anything negative about the Onkyo receivers from anyone who's had them. I've used Sony and Onkyo receivers._
> 
> Well - I have an 875. The current 876 is almost identical.
> 
> It runs so hot that it will eventually go into shutdown if placed inside any kind of cabinet, even one with open sides. Same thing will happen if you have anything stacked on top of it. I had to place it out in the open, on top of the cabinet, to get enough cooling.
> 
> And I'm not the only one with this problem. Read the many threads on the issue.
> 
> It does sound nice, I'll grant you that.
> 
> Keith


CNet doesn't have any official reviews of the 806, but there's one user review that's a bit frightening:

"Good sound, lots of connectivity, but video problems."
by imperito on November 14, 2008

Pros: The sound is great, driving my Aperion speakers. The video conversion is convenient, I can put everything on HDMI. Configuration isn't too difficult, nice to see a menu on the TV.
Cons: When displaying 1080p video from my Xbox 360, I see blue dots on the screen during dark scenes, even with the HDMI mode set to "Through". I don't think it is doing real pass through of the video. Doesn't happen on a 720p signal.
Summary: I like the sound, and the connectivity. The video on 720p is fine.

But the problem with 1080p video is very distracting,the whole screen would sparkle with blue dots during fade to black transitions. I had to switch to using 720p.


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## Christopher Gould

sony STR DA2400 ES not that expensive but does everything i need it to do plus a 5 year warranty


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## spartanstew

farmermike said:


> Is there a fix for this? I have a typical open-backed cabinet with a glass door that I have all my components in except for the ViP722, which sits on top. I think I'd like to keep it there because it runs a little warm, although not nearly as warm as the HR20 I used to use (that actually ran HOT).
> 
> i'd hate to have to rule out Onkyo entirely because of this issue, but putting it on top of the cabinet is a non-starter for me.


You could get a usb powered fan or a laptop cooling pad for it, if it's a concern.


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## Lord Vader

farmermike said:


> Just checked newegg.com:
> 
> Onkyo TXS706B $549
> 
> Onkyo TXS806 $649 free ship on both
> 
> Seems like cheap prices on both. Does the 806 have enough additional features to justify the extra $100?
> 
> I have no objection to Onkyo, I've just kind of been a Sony fan for years, although I'm going Samsung for my new TV. I'm not wedded to any particular brand, but the reviews I've read of the new higher end Sony ES series receivers have been very, very glowing.


My old man got the 806 for $596 on Amazon (no tax, no shipping), so that NewEgg price above is a bit high.


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## farmermike

jlast01 said:


> Look at B&W speakers... Expensive, but beautiful sound.


What about the Bose Acoustimass® 16 Series II speakers? A bit pricey, but with speakers you pretty much get what you pay for, don't you?


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## spartanstew

DO NO GET BOSE.

You get what you pay for with everything except Bose.

Are you familiar with Monster cables? The ones that cost $100 when you can get the same cable from monoprice for $5.

Bose is about the same. Their speakers aren't terrible, but they're way over priced. They rely strictly on marketing.


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## farmermike

Is it even worth buying the two extra speakers to get to 7.1 instead of 5.1? How many soundtracks take advantage of the two extra channels?

I'd hate to have a 7.1 capable receiver and not take advantage of it if it makes a difference in the sound, but maybe it's not worth the expense and trouble.


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## farmermike

spartanstew said:


> DO NO GET BOSE.
> 
> You get what you pay for with everything except Bose.
> 
> Are you familiar with Monster cables? The ones that cost $100 when you can get the same cable from monoprice for $5.
> 
> Bose is about the same. Their speakers aren't terrible, but they're way over priced. They rely strictly on marketing.


OK, forget Bose. How about the Mirage Nanosat® 5.1 Home Theater Speaker System?

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_653NAN...-Theater-Speaker-System.html?c=4&tp=184&avf=N


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## Cholly

You can get almost as good a spatial effect going 6.1 as you would with 7.1 sound The rear center channel works quite well for me. I have a 7.1 receiver, but my house was prewired for 6.1, so I went with that. very nice. 
I agree with spartanstew regarding Bose. For the price you pay for Bose speakers, you can go to an audio specialty dealer and get Paradigms, which are very good, indeed (I did a lot of comparisons before settling on the Paradigms I bought. B&W, Cerwin Vega and the better Klipsch and Pioneer spearers are also quite nice.


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## Hansen

I use the Mirage nanostats in one room and they are actually pretty darn good for a low profile speaker and their cost. I only used 4 and replaced the 5th with a robust center channel and that worked well. They do not compete with higher end, bigger range speakers but do a really great job for their size. Very wife friendly given the low impact on decor.


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## russdog

I very recently looked into this, to replace a Denon 4802.
I spent a couple weeks doing extensive research via internet.
My location makes it difficult to audition things directly, so I don't even try.
I'm not trying to convince anybody to favor any brand or model, am only reporting my own thoughts and decisions.
 I became convinced that Onkyo has perhaps the best current profile of price, features, and quality.
 I narrowed the choices down to the current generation (model numbers ending on 6) vs. the previous generation (ending in 5).
 By nature, I am sorta OCD and a borderline-cheapskate. So, I try to get the most for the least.
 The advantage of the 5's is that you can get factory-approved refurbs for cheap.
 The advantage of the 6's is the improved version of Audyssey auto-EQ.
 I am generally not a fan of DSP. However, while some people have trouble setting it up properly, I am satisfied that Audyssey magic is a good thing. (Audyssey is available on various brands.)
 While both the new and previous versions of Audyssey are useful, the current one is better in that it works at various volume levels, not just reference volume.
 So, for me, the hard part was choosing between a cheaper '5 with the previous Audyssey vs. a more expensive '6 with the newer Audyssey.

 Due to both (a) the level of amp-goodness, and (b) the details of the Audyssey features, I decided that I wanted one of the 800-series. 
If I had wimpier speakers, I would have grabbed a SR706 ($480 from Vann's).
 I narrowed the choices down to refurb-SR805, refurb-SR875, or new-SR876.
 These have the same amp. (I rejected the SR806 because Onkyo downgraded the amp/power-supply from the 805.)
 I could get a refurb 805 at accessories4less. By going through live.com cashback and then to ebay, when the dust settled it would be $484.38 delivered.
 I could get a refurb 875 as above for a total of $676.67 delivered.
 I could get a new 876 at J&R. By going thru live.com cashback and then to J&R, I could get it for $836.07 delivered.

 The 805 and 875 are basically the same except for better video processing in the 875.
 The 875 and 876 are basically the same except for the newer Audyssey in the 876, plus more HDMI's.
 Since I feed 1080i signals to the TV, while I do want the HDMI switching, I don't need the video processing. 
This narrowed it down to between the 805 and 876. 
If I wanted the better Audyssey, I'd be paying for the better video processing in the 876 that I don't need.
If I was up for living with the previous Audyssey, I'd get the 805.
After due agony, I opted for the 876. 
So, I ended up paying: 
 $351 more to get a new 876 (rather than a refurb 805) with the up-to-date Audyssey plus good video processing I don't need. 
 $159 more to get a new 876 rather than a refurb 875, both of which have video processing I don't need.
Ouch. 
I rationalize it by telling myself that I got a great price on the 876, and that it's both cheaper and better than the old Denon was.
It's not here yet.


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## Lord Vader

Wow. I'm rather impressed by your analysis.


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## russdog

Lord Vader said:


> Wow. I'm rather impressed by your analysis.


OCD + internet access to lots of info ;-)


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## Lord Vader

Obviously.


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## spartanstew

farmermike said:


> Is it even worth buying the two extra speakers to get to 7.1 instead of 5.1? How many soundtracks take advantage of the two extra channels?
> 
> I'd hate to have a 7.1 capable receiver and not take advantage of it if it makes a difference in the sound, but maybe it's not worth the expense and trouble.


Yes, it's worth it. It doesn't matter how many soundtracks are in 7.1. As long as your receiver has ProLogic IIx, it will matrix a 5.1 soundtrack into 7.1. The difference it great. I have 5.1 in my living room and 7.1 in my HT. There's really no comparison between the two. If you have the ability to go with 7.1, I'd take advantage of it.


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## bobukcat

spartanstew said:


> DO NO GET BOSE.
> 
> You get what you pay for with everything except Bose.
> 
> Are you familiar with Monster cables? The ones that cost $100 when you can get the same cable from monoprice for $5.
> 
> Bose is about the same. Their speakers aren't terrible, but they're way over priced. They rely strictly on marketing.


No highs, no lows, it must be Bose!


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## jlast01

farmermike said:


> I've been looking into the PS3 and even though I don't have much interest in game consoles, it's a helluva deal and the reviews of its Bluray performance are very good.
> 
> I've never heard of B&W speakers. B&O, yes, but not B&W.
> 
> BTW, why are you sorry you didn't buy a plasma?


I didn't spend a lot of time researching Bluray players, mostly because I'm a bit of a gamer, so the PS3 was an easy choice.

B&W (Bowers & Wilkins) Speakers are British, I think...

http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/display.aspx?infid=799

We have the 704 series. Expensive, but dude, they sound so good. I think we spent around $3k for the speakers and sub (5.1 set-up). This was way, way more than we set out to spend that day, but we were really taken by the sound of these speakers in the showroom... These speakers replaced a set of Bose we had been using for several years.

We have a 60" Sony LCD/projection, but with HD D*, 7.1 Onkyo (using 5.1 of it), high-end speakers, etc, I feel like we cut corners a bit with the TV. I think a plasma display might deliver better results. You do get more bang for your buck with projection, but I wish we had gone with a 50" plasma instead of a 60" projection. Also, the 60" is a bit too large for the room we have it in.



farmermike said:


> When you say hot, how hot do you mean? I have one of those typical open-backed cabinets with a glass door. I really wouldn't want to put it on top of the cabinet because I have the ViP 722 up there and that runs a little warm, too (although not nearly so warm as the HR20 I used to use).
> 
> If these Onkyos run too hot to put in any cabinet that's a definite non-starter for me.


Yeah, the Onkyo runs a little warm, sometimes hot, and it has shut down a few (maybe 3 or 4) times, but it's been when I was pushing it past normal operating conditions. It's never shut down while we were watching a movie or anything. My Sony used to do the same thing when I was pushing it.

I have it in a open-sided/open-front TV stand, but there's not much clearance on top of it. I'll post a photo of the Onkyo in the cabinet later today to give you an idea...

The Onkyo also has on-screen set-up, you can customize the component tags, etc, and the auto-calibration (comes with a mic so it can hear itself) works well.


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## jlast01

I took these with my Blackberry, so they're not that great.

Not much clearance above the Onkyo, but no problems with the heat. If I start having issues, I'll just get a fan to move air.


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## dave29

spartanstew said:


> That's up to you. the 806 has more power (130W compared to 100W), extra THX processing and certification, a detachable power cord and a couple of other things.
> 
> You can compare them directly at onkyousa.com


i believe the 806 has an extra hdmi port as well over the 706


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## farmermike

Is the 876 worth $310 more than the 806?

According to Onkyo's web site, the 806 actually has more HDMI inputs (5 vs 4). As far as video processing goes, I don't know what the difference is between HQV Reon and DDCI Cinema, but the 876 upscaled to 1080p and the 806 only to 1081i.

They both have the same Ultra2 Plus THX certification, and THD differences are negligible: 0.08% vs 0.05%.

Where's the $300 price uptick coming from?


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## russdog

farmermike said:


> Is the 876 worth $310 more than the 806?
> 
> According to Onkyo's web site, the 806 actually has more HDMI inputs (5 vs 4). As far as video processing goes, I don't know what the difference is between HQV Reon and DDCI Cinema, but the 876 upscaled to 1080p and the 806 only to 1081i.
> 
> They both have the same Ultra2 Plus THX certification, and THD differences are negligible: 0.08% vs 0.05%.
> 
> Where's the $300 price uptick coming from?


Better amp.
Superior video processing.
Better version of Audyssey processing.

Whether the diff is worth it to you is a different matter.

ps: You can't adequately judge the quality of either the video processing or the amp just by reading manufacturer spec-sheets.


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## spartanstew

Gotta say, if you can stretch your budget, I'd go for the Pioneer Elite SC-05. I just spent the last 4 days reading all 3300 posts in the owners thread over at avs and I'm very impressed. It's not too often that you read a thread with that many posts and there's less than 10 posts that aren't raving about the product. So, far soundandvision magazine has given it their recommended status and ultimate av magazine has done the same. Glowing reviews. Plus, it looks gorgeous. If you shop around, it can be had for less than $1300. I'm seriously thinking about getting one and I'm not even really interested in upgrading my avr.


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## Cholly

I can't deny that the Elite SC-05 is a fine receiver. However, if you don't need all the extra inputs and outputs, the Yamaha RX-V863 is an excellent choice at a little over half the price.


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## wilbur_the_goose

I love Denon, but they blew it with their current series. From what I understand, their frequent software updates resulted in a unacceptable number of boat anchors.


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## farmermike

russdog said:


> Better amp.
> Superior video processing.
> Better version of Audyssey processing.
> 
> Whether the diff is worth it to you is a different matter.
> 
> ps: You can't adequately judge the quality of either the video processing or the amp just by reading manufacturer spec-sheets.


Thanks for the info, but it's a moot point now. I made my buy and it's Sony:

Samsung HL67A750
Sony STR-DA4400ES
Sony PS3 Playstation (instead of a standalone Bluray player)

Decided to hang into my Polk speakers for now because I can't decide which way to go in that department. Heard about Orb Audio and they look interesting, but there's no way you can hear them unless you live in NY or LA and you can only buy them online.
Was thinking about Mirage Nanosats, but I might go all in on the Orbs. Gotta think some more and do more research.


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## Lord Vader

OK, how long until someone pops in to say, "You made a horrible decision!", "Sony? Dude, wrong choice!" etc.


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## spartanstew

Cholly said:


> I can't deny that the Elite SC-05 is a fine receiver. However, if you don't need all the extra inputs and outputs, the Yamaha RX-V863 is an excellent choice at a little over half the price.


Well, I don't care about all the inputs as I wouldn't use most of them. To me it's about the audio. That Yamaha (almost any Yamaha with the possible exception of the RX-Z7) would never be able to compete with the ICE amps in the new pio's (05/07). There's a reason that Yamaha is half the price.


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## farmermike

Lord Vader said:


> OK, how long until someone pops in to say, "You made a horrible decision!", "Sony? Dude, wrong choice!" etc.


Won't bother me. I have yet to read one bad review of the upper end ES series receivers. CNet was absolutely crazy about them. I've had my Sony STR-DE675 since September 2001 and it has performed flawlessly. I have no complaints.

All the reviews say the Sony graphical interface is superb and the kind of software every receiver maker should emulate. Seems silly to spend $1K on a box and have to fight with text menus and a DOS-like interface. There's more to these receivers than just the tech specs. User friendliness is a major issue.

Now I just have to figure out what to do about speakers. Orbs? Mirage Nanosats? Klipsch RF-10 system? Aperion Intimus 4T? Can't decide. I wanted to spend less than a grand on them, but it doesn't look like that's going to be possible, especially since I want 4 surrounds and a new subwoofer so I can do 7.1 the right way.


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## farmermike

farmermike said:


> Won't bother me. I have yet to read one bad review of the upper end ES series receivers. CNet was absolutely crazy about them. I've had my Sony STR-DE675 since September 2001 and it has performed flawlessly. I have no complaints.
> 
> All the reviews say the Sony graphical interface is superb and the kind of software every receiver maker should emulate. Seems silly to spend $1K on a box and have to fight with text menus and a DOS-like interface. There's more to these receivers than just the tech specs. User friendliness is a major issue.
> 
> Now I just have to figure out what to do about speakers. Orbs? Mirage Nanosats? Klipsch RF-10 system? Aperion Intimus 4T? Can't decide. I wanted to spend less than a grand on them, but it doesn't look like that's going to be possible, especially since I want 4 surrounds and a new subwoofer so I can do 7.1 the right way.


Answering my own question tonite. Just bought PolkAudio RM85 surround system and added two more RM7 surrounds and a PSW125 subwoofer.

So I'm done with all my home theater shopping. And I managed to keep it under $5K, including TV stand and HDMI cables. All I have to buy is new speaker wire, connectors and 4 stands for my surrounds. Whew, glad that's done.


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## Lord Vader

farmermike said:


> Won't bother me. I have yet to read one bad review of the upper end ES series receivers. CNet was absolutely crazy about them. I've had my Sony STR-DE675 since September 2001 and it has performed flawlessly. I have no complaints.
> 
> All the reviews say the Sony graphical interface is superb and the kind of software every receiver maker should emulate. Seems silly to spend $1K on a box and have to fight with text menus and a DOS-like interface. There's more to these receivers than just the tech specs. User friendliness is a major issue.
> 
> Now I just have to figure out what to do about speakers. Orbs? Mirage Nanosats? Klipsch RF-10 system? Aperion Intimus 4T? Can't decide. I wanted to spend less than a grand on them, but it doesn't look like that's going to be possible, especially since I want 4 surrounds and a new subwoofer so I can do 7.1 the right way.


I'm certainly not criticizing him for getting that model. I was just surprised he did because of its price. I DO love the fact that it has tons of HDMI inputs!


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## ShawnL25

Three pages and no one has suggested HK
I love mine. Get the HK AVR 354

It does everything and is easy to use / setup.


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## spartanstew

ShawnL25 said:


> Three pages and no one has suggested HK
> I love mine. Get the HK AVR 354
> 
> It does everything and is easy to use / setup.


1. No video passthrough.
2. Underpowered.
3. EZSET (one of the worst of the auto calibrations)
4. Audio synch issues with the PS3 via HDMI
5. Clips BTB/WTW
6. Random speaker level bug.
7. Sound loss issues when changing channels/FF, which needs a source change to correct.


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## rotohead

I vote for the Denon 3808 w/Audyssey. Great features and I love the Rhapsody subscription. Sound quality is exceptional. Only shortcoming I find with it is only one HDMI output. If you hate when commercials are much louder than regular programming then Audyssey is the answer.


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## shedberg

What do you guys think of the Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K as a decent AVR?


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## Sirshagg

rotohead said:


> If you hate when commercials are much louder than regular programming then Audyssey is the answer.


What are these commercials of which you speak?


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## rotohead

Sirshagg said:


> What are these commercials of which you speak?


Jezz, I get it...my sister continues to point out there is a 'mute' button.

I watch 90% sports, LIVE, don't care to much for Idol or Dance programming. I also can't time shift even just a little bit if I know the event is live. Can't do it. 
I'm just saying, for what it does, Audyssey worked for me, aging, hard of hearing viewer tired of diving for the remote everytime something changes. Audyssey maybe isn't for the purist but it is working better than I expected for me.


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## spartanstew

shedberg said:


> What do you guys think of the Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K as a decent AVR?


I'm a big Pioneer fan, but in that price range, I'd get the Onkyo TX-SR706 (might cost you $100 - $150 more, depending). I think it's a much better receiver in terms of sound and features. It's also a Recommended Buy from Sound and Vision Magazine.


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## jimstolz76

farmermike said:


> CNet doesn't have any official reviews of the 806, but there's one user review that's a bit frightening:
> 
> "Good sound, lots of connectivity, but video problems."
> by imperito on November 14, 2008
> 
> Pros: The sound is great, driving my Aperion speakers. The video conversion is convenient, I can put everything on HDMI. Configuration isn't too difficult, nice to see a menu on the TV.
> Cons: When displaying 1080p video from my Xbox 360, I see blue dots on the screen during dark scenes, even with the HDMI mode set to "Through". I don't think it is doing real pass through of the video. Doesn't happen on a 720p signal.
> Summary: I like the sound, and the connectivity. The video on 720p is fine.
> 
> But the problem with 1080p video is very distracting,the whole screen would sparkle with blue dots during fade to black transitions. I had to switch to using 720p.


99% sure that is a bad HDMI cable and nothing else.


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## spartanstew

jimstolz76 said:


> 99% sure that is a bad HDMI cable and nothing else.


Actually that's an issue that some Onkyo's have with gaming machines via HDMI (PS3/XBOX). You can usually correct it by going into the OSD menu and turning off immediate display.

You can also avoid the issue by choosing 720p or 1080i. It only happens when gaming (not watching Blu Ray via the PS3).

There's a thread about it on avforums


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## barryb

I have been more than satisfied with my Pioneer equipment.


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## shedberg

spartanstew said:


> I'm a big Pioneer fan, but in that price range, I'd get the Onkyo TX-SR706 (might cost you $100 - $150 more, depending). I think it's a much better receiver in terms of sound and features. It's also a Recommended Buy from Sound and Vision Magazine.


Thanks Stew!


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## KG4MVP

I install Onkyo and Intergra receivers almost daily and they by far are the best bang for the buck. We as a company dropped Sony a few years ago because there quality went to crap. We use B&K for our high end systems but they are a little on the spendy side. I can't stress enough to you how easy the onkyo are to set up and use and the sound IS very good for it's price point.


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