# SWANNI: Why do people hate DIRECTV



## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

*Why So Many DIRECTV Haters? *



> *TVPredictions*
> 
> Monday, March 19, 2007, 06:01 AM
> 
> ...


More @ TVPredictions.com


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## captain_video (Nov 22, 2005)

I'd be willing to bet that there are more people out there that hate Comcast and some other cable providers far more than they dislike DirecTV. I'd also have to say that Dish subscribers aren't all that happy with Charlie 24/7 either. 

That being said, I just severed ties with DirecTV this past weekend in favor of Verizon FIOS. I spent a record 3-1/2 hours on hold with DirecTV waiting for the chance to do so. I made the mistake of responding to the voice prompt with "Cancel service" and I got put on hold in limbo. I finally gave up and hung up. I called back and just pressed "0" to get to a CSR directly instead of letting the phone menu lead me by the nose into another dead end.

I have to admit that the CSR I spoke with was one of the friendliest I had ever dealt with and the entire experience was extremely pleasant (discounting the 3-1/2 hours I'll never see again). When asked why I wanted to cancel service I told her I had a list and went on to explain why I was leaving. I informed her that the DirecTV picture quality had deteriorated steadily over the past 10 years due to the signal being overcompressed. She said that no one had ever told her that before. BTW, I have DVDs I made from shows I extracted from my DTivos and the picture quality of the shows recorded five years ago is markedly superior to the crap DTV is sending down now. 

I said I was not happy about the fact that DirecTV holds their customers hostage for 1 or 2 years just for activating new hardware. She said that was regrettable but there was nothing that could be done about it. I also said I wasn't happy that they routinely hijacked bandwidth from certain HD channels to provide HD programming to NFLST viewers (they superceded the entire LOTR trilogy in HD on TNT-HD during the Christmas holidays to show a football game in HD). I told her I was paying for the HD service and that I had my pocket picked. She didn't blame me for getting mad about that one.

She began offering me all sorts of incentives to stay with DTV but I told her it was a done deal. She even offered me an HR20 absolutely free and said that it was never offered to anyone for free before. I thanked her politely and declined the offer but did say that if DTV showed me they had a better HD lineup in the future and better PQ then I would consider coming back. After being with Verizon FIOS I don't see this ever happening. The HD quality is absolutely stunning and I'm actually enjoying standard definition programming on my HDTV for the first time. The images are almost as good as DVD quality on some channels.


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## lwilli201 (Dec 22, 2006)

I don't like Duke, but I have to respect them as an elite basketball program. I would not characterize D* as elitist because it is available at approximately the same price as cable through its different packages. On the high end D* does cater to those of means. The easiest way to get into Duke is be rich or one hell of a basketball player. But it is an interesting analogy.


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## mr anderson (Oct 6, 2006)

...Because their new HD DVR has no Dual Live Buffer!

ba-du-bump *crash*...

Thank you! Thank you! I'm hear all night folks!


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## machavez00 (Nov 2, 2006)

I just tried to post a comment on tvpredictions and it had an error, hmm. What I tried to say is that I had horible service from Cox, both when I live at home and when I got married and moved to the East Valley. When Qwest came in with thier VDSL service almost our entire subdivision dropped Cox and went with Qwest. There were so many poeple switching that Qwest had to install a second USAM to handle it. When I bought a house in my old neighborhood in Phoenix I went with DirecTV because Qwest had not finished the VDSL service install yet. (it was just turned on)


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## lwilli201 (Dec 22, 2006)

It does not matter how good FIOS is, if it is not available to you. Where I live D* is far superior to anything available, and it will be for many years. I am sure D* understands that with the proliferation on FIOS and other high quality services, that they will have to improve their PQ. Im sure the plans are on the table already. IMHO FIOS will damage cable companies more than DBS. It could be bad for DBS but it will kill cable.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

Wow - this just tells me why I shouldn't pay attention to what Swanni has to say about anything. So many people hate DirecTV... that they have 16 million subscribers... that they consistently get rated as #1 in customer satisfaction. Sounds like Swanni has an axe to grind. Personally, I love my DirecTV service. I had Comcast... and HATED that service. With DirecTV I believe I'm getting a good value - you get a lot for the price. I also think that, despite some bad experiences that some folks have, their customer service is still second-to-none. When I call, I get right through to an operator. I find them helpful and curteous. Do they know the answer to EVERY question? No. But I don't expect them to. The ONLY time I've ever had to wait on hold, ironically, is when I went to activate both of my R15s. Generally, on something like activation of service, you get right through but on service calls you end up waiting. My experience with DirecTV has been the exact opposite.

Also, this past Saturday gave me a real indication that I shouldn't consider switching to FiOS TV. I've always been concerned with Verizon's customer service, although we have FiOS internet connectivity at home, and I really do love the service. Saturday morning we lost connectivity. I called Verizon, and got through their automated system (never once did I talk to a live operator). They remotely ran a diagnostic on my system, and then I was informed that a call went out to a technician, and that the tech would be contacting me, and that they were "committed to having this problem resolved by March 19th..." That caught me - that was 2 days. Several hours went by - no call from the tech. I had to go out to run some errands, and my wife heard a loud beeping coming from downstairs. She noticed that it came from the Verizon power supply (supplies power for the internet connection). She was going to wait until I came home to deal with it, and then she realized something else - the house was getting really cold. The breaker for the circuit that supplies power to both the Verizon power supply, and the furnace, had been tripped. Apparently the battery backup for the Verizon supply finally ran down, and hence we got the loud beeping. She flipped the circuit back on and we were back in business.

Two things concerned me with this whole episode. First, it appears that the battery backup did nothing. I wasn't able to connect to the internet, even though the batter backup still had power. Second, it is now more than 48 hours since I placed the call to Verizon, and I STILL have yet to hear back from their technician. I was going to call to cancel the service call, but I wanted to see how long it would be before I heard from the tech, so I left the service call out there. This doesn't bode well for FiOS customer service in my book... I hope this is an isolated incident, but in the meantime, I won't even consider leaving DirecTV for FiOS at this point because of this experience.


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

Just shows what you can expect when there is nothing really to write about.


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## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

I like DirecTV.  I never listen to Swanni.


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## jaywdetroit (Sep 21, 2006)

I actually feel this way about Comcast; and in the past I felt that D* was the lesser of two evils.

But after I've seen the way they have worked with subs in the CE area, my opinion of D* has changed for the better. Thats not to say I 'all of a sudden' smell nothing but roses in regards to D*. I still have my gripes. But the company has a much more human face for me now, and any step in that direction, no matter how small, isn't a bad thing.


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## tds4182 (Jul 17, 2003)

My only real gripe about D* is the 2 year commitment for any advanced technology.

I wish they'd offer the opportunity to pay more $$ up front and "buy down" the length of your commitment. They could use a sliding scale in which the more you pay up front, the shorter your commitment period. This would be fair to everyone, whether well off financially or otherwise.


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## lwilli201 (Dec 22, 2006)

Swanni thrives on controversy. He is just stirring the pot. :goodandba


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## machavez00 (Nov 2, 2006)

Cox cable is really bad in our neighborhood. My mother has Cox and all the VHF locals have ghosting, channels 70-95 have bad video static. Cox installed a booster with no help. She pays more for the full analog service than I pay for total choice and she gets fewer channels


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## leww37334 (Sep 19, 2005)

Directv is kinda like democracy, it's the worst system around, except for all the others. :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## jimb726 (Jan 9, 2007)

tds4182 said:


> My only real gripe about D* is the 2 year commitment for any advanced technology.
> 
> I wish they'd offer the opportunity to pay more $$ up front and "buy down" the length of your commitment. They could use a sliding scale in which the more you pay up front, the shorter your commitment period. This would be fair to everyone, whether well off financially or otherwise.


The out fee isnt too bad if you dont want to cancel 2 months into your commitment, I think for the full 24 months its 300 dollars prorated evenly per month over the two years, plus I have read that if you have a legitimate reason for leaving there is even some flexibility with that. Not sure, I cant stand my alternative so I wouldnt leave if I could.


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## Boston Fan (Feb 18, 2006)

tds4182 said:


> My only real gripe about D* is the 2 year commitment for any advanced technology.
> 
> I wish they'd offer the opportunity to pay more $$ up front and "buy down" the length of your commitment. They could use a sliding scale in which the more you pay up front, the shorter your commitment period.


They do this already (kind of), but instead of charging you upfront, they charge an early termination fee that is prorated to account for your actual months of service. I think this is better than what you propose, because you only pay if you actually cancel.

In your scenario, the subscriber that pays more to lessen the commitment upfront pays no matter how long they ultimately stay with DirecTV.


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## Dolly (Jan 30, 2007)

jpl said:


> Wow - this just tells me why I shouldn't pay attention to what Swanni has to say about anything. So many people hate DirecTV... that they have 16 million subscribers... that they consistently get rated as #1 in customer satisfaction. Sounds like Swanni has an axe to grind. Personally, I love my DirecTV service. I had Comcast... and HATED that service. With DirecTV I believe I'm getting a good value - you get a lot for the price. I also think that, despite some bad experiences that some folks have, their customer service is still second-to-none. When I call, I get right through to an operator. I find them helpful and curteous. Do they know the answer to EVERY question? No. But I don't expect them to. The ONLY time I've ever had to wait on hold, ironically, is when I went to activate both of my R15s. Generally, on something like activation of service, you get right through but on service calls you end up waiting. My experience with DirecTV has been the exact opposite.
> 
> Also, this past Saturday gave me a real indication that I shouldn't consider switching to FiOS TV. I've always been concerned with Verizon's customer service, although we have FiOS internet connectivity at home, and I really do love the service. Saturday morning we lost connectivity. I called Verizon, and got through their automated system (never once did I talk to a live operator). They remotely ran a diagnostic on my system, and then I was informed that a call went out to a technician, and that the tech would be contacting me, and that they were "committed to having this problem resolved by March 19th..." That caught me - that was 2 days. Several hours went by - no call from the tech. I had to go out to run some errands, and my wife heard a loud beeping coming from downstairs. She noticed that it came from the Verizon power supply (supplies power for the internet connection). She was going to wait until I came home to deal with it, and then she realized something else - the house was getting really cold. The breaker for the circuit that supplies power to both the Verizon power supply, and the furnace, had been tripped. Apparently the battery backup for the Verizon supply finally ran down, and hence we got the loud beeping. She flipped the circuit back on and we were back in business.
> 
> Two things concerned me with this whole episode. First, it appears that the battery backup did nothing. I wasn't able to connect to the internet, even though the batter backup still had power. Second, it is now more than 48 hours since I placed the call to Verizon, and I STILL have yet to hear back from their technician. I was going to call to cancel the service call, but I wanted to see how long it would be before I heard from the tech, so I left the service call out there. This doesn't bode well for FiOS customer service in my book... I hope this is an isolated incident, but in the meantime, I won't even consider leaving DirecTV for FiOS at this point because of this experience.


I very much feel your pain. Verizon is my phone service. And they can't even fix a phone problem timely so I certainly don't want to have any other service that uses Verizon :raspberry And, of course, as about everybody on the D's Forum knows the only thing I really have against D is they don't carry The Tennis Channel :beatdeadhorse:


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## lwilli201 (Dec 22, 2006)

The commitment softens the blow of paying $799.00 for an HR 20.
I got $600 worth of cell phones for $50 and a two year commitment. I got a flyer from my local cable company. They have an 18 month commitment and they don't even have HD yet, or even claiming that they will have it soon.


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## Newshawk (Sep 3, 2004)

I think that Swanni had a bunch of money riding on Duke...


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

My money says that Swanni never had Adelphia. Now there was a company to hate. Not only did they have a lousy product and service, but the scandal wasn't even that entertaining.


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## lwilli201 (Dec 22, 2006)

Newshawk said:


> I think that Swanni had a bunch of money riding on Duke...


!rolling


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## Blitz68 (Apr 19, 2006)

mr anderson said:


> ...Because their new HD DVR has no Dual Live Buffer!
> 
> ba-du-bump *crash*...
> 
> Thank you! Thank you! I'm hear all night folks!


Don't care. DLB is over rated.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

Dolly said:


> I very much feel your pain. Verizon is my phone service. And they can't even fix a phone problem timely so I certainly don't want to have any other service that uses Verizon :raspberry And, of course, as about everybody on the D's Forum knows the only thing I really have against D is they don't carry The Tennis Channel :beatdeadhorse:


What, I didn't know that you're into tennis  Customer service is a biggie for me. Last summer when my phone service went and I tried to call Verizon, I nearly dropped them. By 'trying' I mean just that. I found my latest bill, found the service number, dialed it (with my cell) and got a message that that number was no longer in service. Now, I don't expect perfection, but when you're the PHONE COMPANY I expect that you get the phone numbers on your bill correct. I then tried their general number, and was told that the office was closed and that I should try again during business hours! I was never given the option to switch over to their service number. I tried another number that I had in my PDA, but had issues with that too (something about my account not being current). I was getting real close to throwing the phone out the window. So I pulled out my phone book and found their number, and called it. THEN I got through.

At this point I already had the FiOS internet service - and it really is a good service - but my options are limited. It's either FiOS, cable (and I would rather use smoke signals for sending e-mail than give Comcast another dime of my money), Hughes Net, or dial up. With dialup I never got over 14k speed (even with a 56k modem), and given the cost of Hughes Net, FiOS was my only real high-speed option. Still, I think their customer service leaves much to be desired. It's the way their company is organized. IF you can find the right number, you can get good service, but unless you find the right number you're hosed. When FiOS TV became available about 5 - 6 months ago I really thought about switching, but decided to hold off until at least I went HD before making that kind of decision. This experience pretty much did it for me. Unless I see some improvement in their customer service I don't expect to ever switch over.


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## islesfan (Oct 18, 2006)

lwilli201 said:


> I don't like Duke, but I have to respect them as an elite basketball program. I would not characterize D* as elitist because it is available at approximately the same price as cable through its different packages. On the high end D* does cater to those of means. The easiest way to get into Duke is be rich or one hell of a basketball player. But it is an interesting analogy.


I kept waiting for them to refer to people hating Duke because of its "gang rapist" lacrosse team (I don't follow college basketball, only hockey and lacrosse, so I didn't know about the opinion/status of their basketball team). Thankfully, it appears that people have finally started to see that for hoax that it was.


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## captain_video (Nov 22, 2005)

> Two things concerned me with this whole episode. First, it appears that the battery backup did nothing. I wasn't able to connect to the internet, even though the batter backup still had power.


The battery backup is there to make sure your phones work in the event of a power outage, not your internet (i.e., it ensures you will have a dial tone). Either your FIOS installer didn't explain this to you or you were absent that day. The FIOS installers I had were topnotch and put every DTV installer I've ever had at my home to shame.

My main reason to switch to FIOS was for the internet. Getting all three services lowered my monthly bills considerably. I was already paying the same for my Verizon local service and was paying AT&T for long distance. Getting the Verizon FIOS phone gave me both unlimited local and long distance calls plus call waiting and caller ID for the same as what I had been paying previously for just local service. Comcast was charging me $57.95 per month for wideband internet vs. about $40 for Verizon. Severing ties with Comcast was a major plus for me. Verizon will also be upgrading the download speed from 5mbs to 10mbs in the upcoming months for no increase in cost. I believe the upload speed will bump from 2mbs to 5mbs as well. Their other internet plans will increase proportionately, again with no additional cost.

What really sold me on FIOS was the quality of the TV image. Standard def never looked so good on my HDTV. DTV SD channels are absolutely pathetic by comparison, at least on the few SD channels that I do watch. The only time I've seen Battlestar Galactica look better is when the reruns air on UHD. Verizon also provides both Baltimore and DC locals in HD (about 12 total) vs. four Baltimore HD locals from DTV that would require new mpeg4 hardware and another 2-year commitment to receive. All I can say is that for those that can't get FIOS, it sucks to be you (I feel your pain, if that's any consolation).

One thing DTV does have in its favor is the quality of their customer service. Then again, they've been doing this a lot longer than Verizon has (the TV part, anyway). So far my main gripe with Verizon is that I can't get a sub-account set up for my wife's e-mail. The folks at Verizon can't figure out why yet but they do know it's a problem and are supposedly working on it.



> Don't care. DLB is over rated.


I couldn't agree more. It all depends on how you record your shows. I have my season passes set up in advance and I really don't have time to watch anything else, so the live buffers are of little or no importance to me. I can count the number of times I actually used them on one hand in all the years I've owned a Tivo, but obviously YMMV. If I do run out of shows to watch on the Tivo I've got lots of movies stockpiled that are waiting in the wings. Besides, in order for the buffers to be of any use the Tivo has to be tuned to the channel ahead of time. If you happen to run across something while surfing you'll only be able to record from that point on anyway. If you know what channel the Tivo needs to be on then isn't it just as easy to set up a recording in advance? Being able to actually use the live buffers seems like a crapshoot to me, unless you're trying to watch two games simultaneously and keep toggling back and forth, in which case they'd come in pretty handy. I'm not that much of a diehard sports nut that would use the feature and any other game that's on at the same time will probably have the highlights shown during the game I'm watching anyway if there's anything noteworthy going on.


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## mr anderson (Oct 6, 2006)

It's not DirecTV that gets the hate; it's the changes they implement. Like it or not, Directv has made some major changes, the most major (to the general consumer) is the new gui and boxes for their receivers and dvr's. And while I can't say enough that the programmers and engineers behind the coding of these new boxes have done a great job so far, they are not perfect. 

They are not perfect because agree or not, they are a downgrade disguised as an upgrade. You simply have to get them if you want to future proof yourself to have service. Simple as that. And no one likes being forced to have to buy or lease something.

Would people care if they got all the same features they had plus more? Of course not, but they don't. They lose stability. They lose dual buffers. They lose that great familiar gui they've known and is easily recognizable to them to operate. They lose quite a bit more. Remember that the general population who use directv are not ce beta testers, and do not frequent these forums.

But they lose something far worse, they lose a loyalty to a company who did not look out for their own customer's best interest. The first rule of any business is customer satisfaction because without the customer, there is nothing. I'm not saying directv has left it's customers in the dark...hardly. But until they start really..and I mean really implementing the core features they've decided to take away from their receivers and dvrs, this constant downward spiral of review and opinion on them will not change.


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

I'm guessing that D* expects the number of subscribers who get an HR20 and have never had a Tivo, to far outnumber those with Tivo experience, soon after the "HD Explosion" we are being promised.

I like my HR20 fine, it is stable, and do not like what I see of the Tivo GUI. I have no personal need for dual buffers.

I think D* expects a lot of new subscribers who barely know what Tivo is.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

jpl said:


> Second, it is now more than 48 hours since I placed the call to Verizon, and I STILL have yet to hear back from their technician. I was going to call to cancel the service call, but I wanted to see how long it would be before I heard from the tech, so I left the service call out there.


I have a Verizon T1 data service at work and they are constantly "closing" tickets on me when their tests say that the line is good. It is possible that they did another remote test or saw traffic and closed out the ticket, canceling your service tech. It annoys me to no end when they do this to our T1 data line. I don't believe a ticket should be closed until AFTER checking to make sure the customer is satisfied with the repair. They can reopen the ticket or reference it and start another if the problem is re-reported, but closing tickets without checking with the customer is a constant problem with Verizon data - and that mentality and corporate policy has likely filtered down to the FIOS team.

That being said, there are a lot of words being thrown around here ... whether one hates, dislikes or just annoyed by DirecTV - every business has customers who believe the company is not living up to expectations. Some of those customers go elsewhere, others stick it out waiting for a better day, others have tried elsewhere and may be choosing the lesser of two (or more) evils.

It is likely that MOST customers are happy ... not even ticked at DirecTV. Perhaps they don't care about the hot button issue that raises blood pressure daily on the forums. Perhaps they are not bleeding edge adopters who must have it now with perfection lest they rant until no one listens to them any more. Noisy people get noticed. Noisy people with a publication more so ... it doesn't mean that the noisy people are in the majority.


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## Drewg5 (Dec 15, 2006)

Blitz68 said:


> Don't care. DLB is over rated.


thank you


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

Swanni should start a similar thread for Cablevision - I'd bet he would get 10 times as many responders. They are the worst - starting from customer serice, to outages, etc.

Point is, you could get virtually identical stories about EVERY provider if you wanted to - this is all pretty meaningless IMO for that reason. Sure some people have complaints - after all they serve 15 MILLION people - but you know what - no matter which provider you look at it would be the same.


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## uncrules (Dec 20, 2005)

For the record, there is nothing on the planet that I hate more the dook* basketball.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

James Long said:


> It is possible that they did another remote test or saw traffic and closed out the ticket, canceling your service tech.


That's most likely the case - but part of good customer service, in my mind, is follow up. I would have at least liked a "we detected that your system should be fine now... is everything ok?" call.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

I don't think that Swanni was trying to express his opinion. He was simply bringing to light the amount of nasty e-mail he gets when he does a DirecTV related article. It is painfully obvious that he gives DirecTV a lot more attention than anyone else in the marketplace and some of it is even good attention.

I think a lot of the bile comes from the fact that DirecTV ties up content that many believe should be more widely available; especially those for whom DirecTV is not an option.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

James Long said:


> I have a Verizon T1 data service at work and they are constantly "closing" tickets on me when their tests say that the line is good. It is possible that they did another remote test or saw traffic and closed out the ticket, canceling your service tech.


This is not uncommon in the telco business. They have all sorts of monitoring tools that tell them what is and isn't happening and they rely on them way too much.

DirecTV has very little to go on and what they do find out usually comes in the form of an "us versus them" battle between the installer/tech and the subscriber.

I think it is off-topic to bring up reliability of the HR20 as the reason. People hated DirecTV long before they took the hardware stuff inside.

I claim that one of the biggest reasons people hate DirecTV is that they talk big talk at the trade shows and, like Micro$oft (another company that many hate with a passion), they deliver less than promised months late... if at all. And now, like Micro$oft, it comes out with lots of stupid bugs.


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

Originally Posted by Blitz68 
Don't care. DLB is over rated.



Drewg5 said:


> thank you


It is also a STANDARD feature on just about every other dual tuner DVR offered by competitors, so somebody must like it.


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## mr anderson (Oct 6, 2006)

raott said:


> Originally Posted by Blitz68
> Don't care. DLB is over rated.
> 
> It is also a STANDARD feature on just about every other dual tuner DVR offered by competitors, so somebody must like it.


I don't think so. However it was a STANDARD feature on DirecTV's _own_ dvr receivers. So for them to take that feature away, is just crazy.


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

ScoBuck said:


> Point is, you could get virtually identical stories about EVERY provider if you wanted to - this is all pretty meaningless IMO for that reason. Sure some people have complaints - after all they serve 15 MILLION people - but you know what - no matter which provider you look at it would be the same.


My thoughts exactly.


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

mr anderson said:


> I don't think so. However it was a STANDARD feature on DirecTV's _own_ dvr receivers. So for them to take that feature away, is just crazy.


You are incorrect in your assertion that it is not a standard feature on other provider's dual tuner DVRs. I could call my cable company, have a motorola 6412/6416 with dual tuners and dual live buffers, installed today if I wanted to.

I do not do so because D* still wins when compared to my cable co. thanks to sports packages / overall programing and total price. However the margin between the two continues to thin.


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

harsh said:


> I don't think that Swanni was trying to express his opinion. He was simply bringing to light the amount of nasty e-mail he gets when he does a DirecTV related article. It is painfully obvious that he gives DirecTV a lot more attention than anyone else in the marketplace and some of it is even good attention.
> 
> I think a lot of the bile comes from the fact that DirecTV ties up content that many believe should be more widely available; especially those for whom DirecTV is not an option.


I for one never suggested he was stating his opinion. What I did say is that I believe that this type of article is really meaningless as every provider has pretty much the same issues, complaints, etc. In my neck of the woods you better believe that there are TONS of folks that HATE the Dolans, hate Cablevision, etc., and I have been hearing it for 20 years +. Rembember, you wouldn't get such a national or wide response to an individual cable company - they are all localized in their service and offerings - even the huge companies are so varied from market to market. But I certainly don't feel the 'love' for any of them overall.


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## jal (Mar 3, 2005)

ScoBuck said:


> I for one never suggested he was stating his opinion. What I did say is that I believe that this type of article is really meaningless as every provider has pretty much the same issues, complaints, etc. In my neck of the woods you better believe that there are TONS of folks that HATE the Dolans, hate Cablevision, etc., and I have been hearing it for 20 years +. Rembember, you wouldn't get such a national or wide response to an individual cable company - they are all localized in their service and offerings - even the huge companies are so varied from market to market. But I certainly don't feel the 'love' for any of them overall.


That's why people switched from cable in droves to Directv in the 90s. Now, with some feeling like Directv is just another cable company (bad equipment, poor customer service, etc.), the same dissapointment comes out.

Personally, for me, if Directv hadn't eliminated TIVO, I would be one happy customer.


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## techstar (Mar 7, 2007)

The only thing that keeps me with D* is the sports packages. They've lied to me (and everyone in the market I live in - Greenville/Asheville) for six months now about being next on the list for HD locals. This is the largest market (36) without them. Many much smaller ones already have them. And odds are they'll miss their next promised date of 4/15. On top of that, I have had three missed installer appointments I've taken off work for, another service call where the guy showed but wouldn't do anything because he didn't want to spend time outside in the rain, two bad DVRs, the wrong DVR shipped to me, I could go on and on.


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## hr20manray (Dec 18, 2006)

techstar said:


> The only thing that keeps me with D* is the sports packages. They've lied to me (and everyone in the market I live in - Greenville/Asheville) for six months now about being next on the list for HD locals. This is the largest market (36) without them. Many much smaller ones already have them. And odds are they'll miss their next promised date of 4/15. On top of that, I have had three missed installer appointments I've taken off work for, another service call where the guy showed but wouldn't do anything because he didn't want to spend time outside in the rain, two bad DVRs, the wrong DVR shipped to me, I could go on and on.


If another service would provide the Sports programming and have Tivo, I believe that customers would leave D* by the droves.


----------



## jimb726 (Jan 9, 2007)

hr20manray said:


> If another service would provide the Sports programming and have Tivo, I believe that customers would leave D* by the droves.


Which of couse is why D* has locked all of the sports packages up. If you have the best content package people will put up with a lot of crap before they leave.


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## hr20manray (Dec 18, 2006)

jimb726 said:


> Which of couse is why D* has locked all of the sports packages up. If you have the best content package people will put up with a lot of crap before they leave.


I couldn't have said it better. 
By the way. Go Browns.


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

techstar said:


> The only thing that keeps me with D* is the sports packages. They've lied to me (and everyone in the market I live in - Greenville/Asheville) for six months now about being next on the list for HD locals. This is the largest market (36) without them. Many much smaller ones already have them. And odds are they'll miss their next promised date of 4/15. On top of that, I have had three missed installer appointments I've taken off work for, another service call where the guy showed but wouldn't do anything because he didn't want to spend time outside in the rain, two bad DVRs, the wrong DVR shipped to me, I could go on and on.


I can't defend them in any way in regards to your comments - but read the DISH threads and you will see similar installation issues. You will also see complaints about the RSN-HD channels being uplinked but not provided. All I say is -YES, some people have issues (but after all there ARE 15 MILLION customers), but ALL providers (and cable is notorius for crappy customer service) have similar circumstances. In this neck of the woods, in the past year cable has gone down in neighborhoods for up to 3 days at a time after some storms. That alone makes them much more unreliable than a satco could ever be. Frankly, I don't think ANY company of this size will ever please EVERYONE.


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

hr20manray said:


> If another service would provide the Sports programming and have Tivo, I believe that customers would leave D* by the droves.


The same way they have left the cablecos over the past 10 years due to THEIR B.S.? I mean there are almost 30 MILLION subs with satellite providers now.


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## hr20manray (Dec 18, 2006)

Does anyone know how many hr20 units have been sold? (Leased, I mean.)


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## techstar (Mar 7, 2007)

ScoBuck said:


> The same way they have left the cablecos over the past 10 years due to THEIR B.S.? I mean there are almost 30 MILLION subs with satellite providers now.


I dumped Charter for less than the problems I'm having now, but the sports packages now have me sucked in to D*. I just hope we get our HD Locals next month like they've now promised, because where I live in the mountains, HD over OTA is spotty at best.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

*So, Then, Why do people LOVE TiVo?*
http://www.tvpredictions.com/lovetivo031907.htm


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## hr20manray (Dec 18, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> *So, Then, Why do people LOVE TiVo?*
> http://www.tvpredictions.com/lovetivo031907.htm


This guy from that site has it right. I had a Tivo box for two years. 
Tivo Reboots in 2 years = 0 HR20 reboots in 5 months = 15

His/her remarks:
"Its pretty simple, TiVo works all the time, and the DirecTV HR20 works some of the time. With all the nice promised features of the HR20, I just want to come home from work and watch the Islanders on NHL Center Ice. With TiVo it is there EVERY TIME. With the HR20, its a crapshoot. Maybe its there, maybe its not, maybe it won't even record it while I'm watching, as it did the other night."


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## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

There are two reasons that people seem fanatical about Tivo:

1) Tivo does what it is supposed to do, almost flawlessly.

2) People who don't like what Tivo is supposed to do (either don't like the interface or don't like the basket of features offered by Tivo), don't have Tivo and don't feel compelled to get Tivo.

There are, of course, a few exceptions, but they are limited. For example, I have a friend who has Tivo. His wife likes Tivo for the convenience of recording and watching programs. But she hates the user interface. He calls her "Tivo Challenged". She has asked him for a "better" DVR, but she is compelled to use Tivo because he likes it and because they are locked into Tivo since they purchased a lifetime subscription.


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

I for one, never had a DVR until the HR20. But I have read many threads and think that since TiVO was the first, every thing is judged against them. I also know for a fact that there is real selective memory here - TiVO has had their own fair share of issues and problems over the years.


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

After reading a lot of those comments.... Here are mine...

There was at leat the one comment, somewhat bashing DBSTalk and what we are doing with DirecTV... Well... where is the equal "bashing" of www.tivocommunity.com. Isn't that the "same" thing that is going on?

Where TiVo has a vested intrest in that forum... and offers information and updates ect...

But yet... what we are doing here... must be wrong... as it is with "DirecTV"..

-------

There was the one comment about the hacking of TiVo vs the not-so with the DirecTV Plus DVRs... well.. okay, so you can't change it into something else. So sure it is a "TiVo"... but you customized it to what YOU wanted it to do... not everyone can do that... but if "TiVo" was perfect.. you wouldn't have to do that.

---------

The remark about TiVo "just" signing a deal with Comcast.
Well... that deal was made nearly 3 years ago... and I "think" the first public beta was slated for April 2007, but as of yet... I haven't seen much about it's progress.

COX signed their deal nearly a year ago... but there hasn't been a word about it since...

-------
The comments... TiVo Works, the HR20 doesn't

Well... I can argue that till I am blue in the face, doesn't seem to matter some. Each user is different... Some have had issues (with both products), and don't with the other... so obviously that is going to effect their own perception of the product in question.

There will never be a concensus....

The other part... is that DirecTV has changed a lot of it's things over the years. The commitment, the lease aspect, pricing, ect.... So I think a lot of those things go into the factors.


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## Blitz68 (Apr 19, 2006)

mr anderson said:


> I don't think so. However it was a STANDARD feature on DirecTV's _own_ dvr receivers. So for them to take that feature away, is just crazy.


Was NEVER a feature on DirecTV's DVR's. Just the DirecTivo.


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## Blitz68 (Apr 19, 2006)

raott said:


> Originally Posted by Blitz68
> Don't care. DLB is over rated.
> 
> *It is also a STANDARD feature on just about every other dual tuner DVR offered by competitors*, so somebody must like it.


Then get a different DVR!!!! Period.

My car does not have a navigation system but others do. I do not whine about it. If it was that important to me I would buy one that does.


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## mr anderson (Oct 6, 2006)

Blitz68 said:


> Was NEVER a feature on DirecTV's DVR's. Just the DirecTivo.


Right, and those dvr's i'm talking about *were* the directivo dvrs. So?


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## Blitz68 (Apr 19, 2006)

mr anderson said:


> Right, and those dvr's i'm talking about *were* the directivo dvrs. So?


You did not state DirecTivo., you said DirecTV's DVR's which are the R15 & HR20.

Nuff said. Close this thread please.


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

Blitz68 said:


> You did not state DirecTivo., you said DirecTV's DVR's which are the R15 & HR20.
> 
> Nuff said. Close this thread please.


If you don't like threads regarding DLB's then don't read them, its that simple.


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## Blitz68 (Apr 19, 2006)

raott said:


> If you don't like threads regarding DLB's then don't read them, its that simple.


What does that have to do with what you have in quotes. Good lord.


----------



## hr20manray (Dec 18, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> There will never be a concensus....


But there is concensus.

That's part of the problem. There weren't problems with Tivo and there are with the HR20. Most people that had Tivo were pleased with it and had very few,if any problems. A considerable amount of people in the same proportion to the number sold are having or had multiple problems with their HR20. Me being one of them. That does not mean I hate DirecTV or love Tivo. All of these negative articles and what they're saying. Don't you think they have any validity at all?


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## Blitz68 (Apr 19, 2006)

hr20manray said:


> But there is concensus.
> 
> That's part of the problem. *There weren't problems with Tivo* and there are with the HR20. Most people that had Tivo were pleased with it and had very few,if any problems. A considerable amount of people in the same proportion to the number sold are having or had multiple problems with their HR20. Me being one of them. That does not mean I hate DirecTV or love Tivo. All of these negative articles and what they're saying. Don't you think they have any validity at all?


You are kidding right?

There were LOTS of problems with the Tivo. The only people that did not have the problems are the people who got them after they were out for a couple years and the bugs were worked out via software fixes. Kind of like what we are going thru now with the HR20. Some of us have been there from the beginning.


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

Blitz68 said:


> What does that have to do with what you have in quotes. Good lord.


On just about every thread that has to do with DLB's, the first thing you do is whine about the thread and tell everyone else not to complain about DLBs. If you don't like DLB threads, then don't read them.

You stated to close the thread after DLB's were brought up, how much more clear can I make it?


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## Blitz68 (Apr 19, 2006)

There is no reason for DLB threads. There are only about 20-30 of them already.

And if you would read the thread title THIS IS NOT A DLB THREAD.

So go start some DLB threads in the Tivo Community forum where they belong.

This is the DirecTV DVR forum, not DirecTivo or Tivo.

DLB is dead and not needed, obviously.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Please... enough about the DLB's...

If that is the reason that people "love" TiVos... so be it.
It is there on the DTivo platform, not on the DVR+ platform.

If that is a consumers reason for preferring one over the other... so be it.
It is a FACT about the systems.

If/When it comes to the DVR+ platform... then it will be it's own discussion.


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## hr20manray (Dec 18, 2006)

Blitz68 said:


> You are kidding right?
> 
> There were LOTS of problems with the Tivo. The only people that did not have the problems are the people who got them after they were out for a couple years and the bugs were worked out via software fixes. Kind of like what we are going thru now with the HR20. Some of us have been there from the beginning.


No, I'm not kidding.
We are not in 2005. It is 2007 and at this moment in 2007 the Tivo box is more reliable than the HR20. And before I'm called a Tivo lover, I'm not. I own an HR20 and plan on continuing to own it until it is stable. But, my gosh, facts are facts.


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## Blitz68 (Apr 19, 2006)

hr20manray said:


> No, I'm not kidding.
> We are not in 2005. It is 2007 and at this moment in 2007 the Tivo box is more reliable than the HR20. And before I'm called a Tivo lover, I'm not. I own an HR20 and plan on continuing to own it until it is stable. But, my gosh, facts are facts.


OK.

Tivo started making a theres devices in 1997 and in 10 years I would think should have a pretty firm grasp on it.

DirecTV started making there in 2006 um give them some slack.

Considering they have to work around patents and such.

You are getting a DAMN good product for only being out about a year and is pretty reliable.

If you like Tivo so much they are over at eBay, get one.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

enough. :beatdeadhorse: :bang


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

hr20manray said:


> But there is concensus.
> 
> That's part of the problem. There weren't problems with Tivo and there are with the HR20. Most people that had Tivo were pleased with it and had very few,if any problems. A considerable amount of people in the same proportion to the number sold are having or had multiple problems with their HR20. Me being one of them. That does not mean I hate DirecTV or love Tivo. All of these negative articles and what they're saying. Don't you think they have any validity at all?


No... There isn't a concensus

Do the issues that are reported here:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=51
and
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=7
and
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=36
and
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=4

Those issues are just false, and don't really exist...

As Blitz said... TiVo has been around nearly 10 years... and I would hope after 10 years they have it working pretty good... even after 8 years.

Heck the HR10-250 has a hardware issue with the HDMI card... and that was a $1,000 box...

You had people "hating" the DVR+ series the moment it was announced... predicting gloom and doom the moment the informations started to come out that the TiVo platform on DirecTV was going to end...

The R15 had a MASSIVE target on it back... with a gigantic spotlight on it when it was released.... "What was this non-TiVo going to be like..."

The HR20's target was made even bigger with the issues the R15 had...

So regardless how good the HR20 becomes... and the R15 becomes... Those DVR's are always going to have people just that don't like them because they are not a "TiVo" or UTV, or just flat out because they are different...

As to "All of these negative articles and what they're saying. Don't you think they have any validity at all?"

They have validity... those people that wrote them... don't like the units...
Nothing wrong with that... those people are in a position to write an article, about their feelings on the unit....

But what about the articles from CNet? I mean it did give the unit a good review, even after the "adjustment"... but it was the customer-blog section that attacked it.

Then even Swanni started as someone that didn't like the HR20... but has since changed with the improvements in the unit.

Home Theater Magainze? PCMagazine... they all have had positive things to say about the HR20....

So do those not mean anything? Or is it just the negative ones that mean something?

Again... the HR20/R15 and what ever comes after it... is never going to universally liked. Even if, DirecTV did release a new DTivo... It also would not be universally like, and compared to every other product out there.

But yet... as SWANNI's two articles are trying to point out....
There are definently Anti-DirecTV and Pro-TiVo sentiments out there.
There are also Anit-TiVo and Pro-DirecTV sentiments out there.

They are going to be there...they will always be there.


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

hr20manray said:


> No, I'm not kidding.
> We are not in 2005. It is 2007 and at this moment in 2007 the Tivo box is more reliable than the HR20. And before I'm called a Tivo lover, I'm not. I own an HR20 and plan on continuing to own it until it is stable. But, my gosh, facts are facts.


Take a good look around at the boards you will see many with issues with TiVO. Gosh, these things are complicated devices, doesn't your computer ever freeze? I would rather lose a TV recording than a document saved on my PC.


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

ScoBuck said:


> Take a good look around at the boards you will see many with issues with TiVO. Gosh, these things are complicated devices, doesn't your computer ever freeze? I would rather lose a TV recording than a document saved on my PC.


I can live without TV, but without my porn? :lol:


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## hr20manray (Dec 18, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> No... There isn't a concensus
> 
> Do the issues that are reported here:
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=51
> ...


I have had both. I had the Tivo dual tuner system for two years. I replaced it with the HR20. With the Tivo unit I had zero resets. Zero, in two years. In the 5 months that I've had the HR20 I've had 15. Fifteeen, along with many other problems, and currently trickplay problems. In my opinion, at the present time the Tivo unit is or was a more reliable unit than the HR20, based on my experience. Since I'm not drinking the DirecTV Kool-Aid nor carrying the water for Tivo, it would just be absurd for me to feel any other way.


----------



## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

hr20manray said:


> I have had both. I had the Tivo dual tuner system for two years. I replaced it with the HR20. With the Tivo unit I had zero resets. Zero, in two years. In the 5 months that I've had the HR20 I've had 15. Fifteeen, along with many other problems, and currently trickplay problems. In my opinion, at the present time the Tivo unit is or was a more reliable unit than the HR20, based on my experience. Since I'm not drinking the DirecTV Kool-Aid nor carrying the water for Tivo, it would just be absurd for me to feel any other way.


Why don't you see the point? You have a device that is 'old' and it SHOULD be that way. BTW, my 2 HR20s have had a total of 3 resets in 6 months - they have never missed a recording, and work just as expected.

But this thread is not about YOU or about ME, it is about the public as a WHOLE, and if you look at the sites (TiVO community for one) you will see for yourself that there ARE issues with TiVO.


----------



## hr20manray (Dec 18, 2006)

ScoBuck said:


> Why don't you see the point? You have a device that is 'old' and it SHOULD be that way. BTW, my 2 HR20s have had a total of 3 resets in 6 months - they have never missed a recording, and work just as expected.
> 
> But this thread is not about YOU or about ME, it is about the public as a WHOLE, and if you look at the sites (TiVO community for one) you will see for yourself that there ARE issues with TiVO.


You are trying to convince people that have had great experiences with Tivo that missed no programs, and not so great experiences with the HR20 that has missed many programs, that the HR20 is a "more reliable" product. Good luck with that.


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

hr20manray said:


> I have had both. I had the Tivo dual tuner system for two years. I replaced it with the HR20. With the Tivo unit I had zero resets. Zero, in two years. In the 5 months that I've had the HR20 I've had 15. Fifteeen, along with many other problems, and currently trickplay problems. In my opinion, at the present time the Tivo unit is or was a more reliable unit than the HR20, based on my experience. Since I'm not drinking the DirecTV Kool-Aid nor carrying the water for Tivo, it would just be absurd for me to feel any other way.


Key Words there: *my experiences*
And you are 100% entitled to that opinion of the two units... And frankly should be the only thing that matters to you as a consumer.

But because *YOU* have had a terrible experience with HR20... and no problems with the DTivo... doesn't mean that will be the case for everyone.

Take my case for example... my HR10-250... arrived.. .no problems till about 2 months later (now remind you this was when the box was $1k)... The hard drive went flakey.... So I had it replaced.... That one arrived... No HDMI, the HDMI port was bad.. I had it replaced... That one arrived... still HDMI had an issue.... I ended up "settling" and changing my DVD player to be DVI, so the HR10-250 could use the component.

So does that make the HR10-250 platform as a whole, horrible and bad for everyone? No... But it did have a problem (and still does to this day).
Do the cases where I had failed recordings with my HR10-250 (24, CSI, and other popular shows)... does that make it a flawed/horrible product? No.

And you never saw me bash the HR10 because of those flaws... you still won't.

My HR20's (both of them), have worked just as good as my HR10's... and in fact better in some cases...

So while back to the piont of this thread and the articles.
Even if the HR20 doesn't have an issue for 12 months... the moment it has one... BOOM!!! POS again, they are never going to get it to work... But yet the latest and greatest TiVo (S3) has had what? 3 maybe more software updates since it's release? and people are still having issues. Is it a POS? 
Wheree are the "hate" blogs, and nasty articles about it?

Where are the "hate" blogs/articles about the nearly 3+ year delay in getting that Comcast TiVo out? Gosh... DirecTV was getting hammered in June/July of '06 about not having their "new" DVR out...

Where is the COX unit?

So yes... there is definently a Love/Hate relationships out there..


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

hr20manray said:


> You are trying to convince people that have had great experiences with Tivo that missed no programs, and not so great experiences with the HR20 that has missed many programs, that the HR20 is a "more reliable" product. Good luck with that.


But yet it is okay... to try to convince people that the HR20 is the worst, because you have had issues? And that TiVo is great because it hasn't?

What do you tell the person that can't get a DTiVo to work, but yet has had a flawless experience with the HR20?

And at the end of the day...

You have just hit the nail on the head.... it is all about your personal experiences.... If you get "bitten" by a problem... It takes a LONG time to reverse that opinion.


----------



## hr20manray (Dec 18, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Key Words there: *my experiences*
> And you are 100% entitled to that opinion of the two units... And frankly should be the only thing that matters to you as a consumer.
> 
> But because *YOU* have had a terrible experience with HR20... and no problems with the DTivo... doesn't mean that will be the case for everyone.
> ...


Geesh.
I don't remember calling anything a pos. I don't remember "bashing" any unit. I do remember using the words "more reliable". I believe the Love/Hate relationship is in here.


----------



## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

hr20manray said:


> You are trying to convince people that have had great experiences with Tivo that missed no programs, and not so great experiences with the HR20 that has missed many programs, that the HR20 is a "more reliable" product. Good luck with that.


\

Wrong again. I am NOT trying to convince anybody of anything - let your own personal experiences be YOUR own guide. Just like yours are what THEY are, mine are what THEY are. Get off of your soap box and smell the roses.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

hr20manray said:


> Geesh.
> I don't remember calling anything a pos. I don't remember "bashing" any unit. I do remember using the words "more reliable". I believe the Love/Hate relationship is in here.


Where did I say "you" where calling anything a POS...

I didn't...

This "thread" is about the discussion of the perceptions of the two companies / the two products

Not about "your" personal experience, nor "my" personal experiences...

As they are just 2 of the million different experiences out there.


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

hr20manray said:


> Since I'm not drinking the DirecTV Kool-Aid nor carrying the water for Tivo, it would just be absurd for me to feel any other way. .


It looks, to me, like you have an agenda.


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

The one point that I would like to make is that you can count issues on both sides until you are blue in the face, but you have to give a "weight" to the issues to make a apples to apples comparison. If either product has a feature that prevents it from performing its primary mission, that should be heavily weighted. Predictable annoyances should probably be given little weight.

As for cutting DirecTV slack because they're new at the game, I call baloney. If I decided that I could design a better engine for my garden tractor don't my neighbors still have a the right to expect that I'll keep my grass mowed?


----------



## hr20manray (Dec 18, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> It looks, to me, like you have an agenda.


Yeah, right!!
I don't have an opinion that agrees with you so I have an agenda. Please...


----------



## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> It looks, to me, like you have an agenda.


Well, the other day it was complaining about their commercials:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=82802


----------



## hr20manray (Dec 18, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Where did I say "you" where calling anything a POS...
> 
> I didn't...
> 
> ...


You are correct. 
And in my opinion D* is getting much negative publicity from some reputable magazines/news articles. Whether it is fair or not is really irrelevant. It is there.


----------



## hr20manray (Dec 18, 2006)

ScoBuck said:


> Well, the other day it was complaining about their commercials:
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=82802


I happen to have an opinion and I don't like commercials. Yeah, there's a conspiracy in there somewhere.


----------



## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

hr20manray said:


> I happen to have an opinion and I don't like commercials. Yeah, there's a conspiracy in there somewhere.


I have no problem with your opinion. But when you tell me that simply because I state MY experience that "I am trying to convince", but when YOU state YOUR experience its any different, now that's what I'm talking about.


----------



## hr20manray (Dec 18, 2006)

ScoBuck said:


> I have no problem with your opinion. But when you tell me that simply because I state MY experience that "I am trying to convince", but when YOU state YOUR experience its any different, now that's what I'm talking about.


Fair enough.


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

ScoBuck said:


> Well, the other day it was complaining about their commercials:http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=82802


It's not like this hasn't been going on for the last week or so.
It didn't take long to get bored.
Some discussions are interesting, informative, & some are just a waste.
I've learned a lot from "opinions" I didn't agree with.
If we all just talked or posted about or to, members "of like mind", How much would we learn?
I like to keep learning every day.


----------



## mr anderson (Oct 6, 2006)

Man...

I just have this to say:

The HR20 would lay the SMACKDOWN on the HR10. 



























































if it had DLB :grin:


----------



## dhaakenson (Jan 14, 2007)

Upstream said:


> 1) Tivo does what it is supposed to do, almost flawlessly.


Which is why the word TiVo has entered the vernacular, at least in the U.S. It's superior performance is endearing to many.

Now, if HR20 ever becomes a common term, it will be for a different reason. Example usage: "You've been HR20'd" when you catch the flu. Etc.


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

dhaakenson said:


> Which is why the word TiVo has entered the vernacular, at least in the U.S. It's superior performance is endearing to many.
> 
> Now, if HR20 ever becomes a common term, it will be for a different reason. Example usage: "You've been HR20'd" when you catch the flu. Etc.


I don't think that is the reason.. "superior performance is endearing to many"
If that is the case... explain why users of Comcast's DVR? TimeWarner DVR? and others.... refer to the action of recording something... TiVo-ing it? Even though they don't have a TiVo (and a lot don't even realize they don't have a TiVo)

That is because for the last 6 years.. TiVo did one definent thing right... Marketing... You saw TiVo on a lot of TV shows, with characters referring to the "TiVo"... You had other media personalities refer to the action as "TiVoing"... even if they didn't use a TiVo.

Another thing was their price... They where relatively inexpensive... most definently on the DirecTV platform... $89 and no extra programming fee? (when the R10 was release), or even free? So you had a fair amount of market penetration and corresponding marketing.

"Rollerblade" is not the "premier" product anymore... yet, they the "overall" in-line skate is still refered to as roller-blading..
Same as "Kleenex"... They are not necessarily the "best".
Xerox was the same for a long time (but yet it has started to fade to be "copy")
"Q-Tip", "Tylenol", and so on...

So yep... you are not going to here someone ever say they HR20ed it... but when was the last time you had someone refered to: I DSR704ed it ?


----------



## machavez00 (Nov 2, 2006)

one of the things people are b***ng about on tvpredictions.com is "2 year agreements" Then don't get a cell phone. If you upgrade, new agreement; replace a lost or stolen phone, new agreement.


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## dhaakenson (Jan 14, 2007)

machavez00 said:


> one of the things people are b***ng about on tvpredictions is "2 year agreements" Then don't get a cell phone.


True. But my cell phone came wrapped in a bag with a printed seal that said I was entering a 2-year contract. My HR20 had zero information that came with it about any contract, nor even information that the unit was leased. Definitely a different experience than I had with my cell phone, which came with all sorts of information.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

dhaakenson said:


> True. But my cell phone came wrapped in a bag with a printed seal that said I was entering a 2-year contract. My HR20 had zero information that came with it about any contract, nor even information that the unit was leased. Definitely a different experience than I had with my cell phone, which came with all sorts of information.


The committment was ALL over the documents I signed when the installed it, was told about it when I called to get it.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Clint Lamor said:


> The committment was ALL over the documents I signed when the installed it, was told about it when I called to get it.


Your mileage will vary... just like calls to CSRs and installations, alas.

I knew about it, but it wasn't all over everything on my HR20s or my h20.

Cheers,
Tom


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## Ext 721 (Feb 26, 2007)

one thing you're going to run into is size.

When a company first starts up, they realize they're going to have to distinguish themselves and hire top-notch people and pay them well. 

But there are only so many top-notch people out there, and soon enough, given that the initial push (often a loss-leader in terms of price) was successful, someone has to go on a hiring binge to keep up with mass demand.

Then two things happen...one, the pool of top-notch people grows smaller and more expensive. Two, the cost for training them stays high...and corporate starts looking at just how LITTLE training they can get away with.

FIOS installers today are likely to be highly trained career-minded people because they know it's a growth business and that promotion is virtually guaranteed.

Once FIOS hits mainstream, watch it go the same way sat installers went....less pay, less training, more difficult job as new services and devices are unveiled.

FIOS today has an advantage over cable and sat.....they get to redline...serve only RICH districts or densely packed areas while slowly filling in their service areas to include poorer areas or sparse areas.

When they reach critical mass, we'll see how they stack up.


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## Ext 721 (Feb 26, 2007)

"Which is why the word TiVo has entered the vernacular, at least in the U.S. It's superior performance is endearing to many."

Puffs plus is a superior tissue (IMNSHO) to kleenex, but people still say "get me a kleenex" Sometimes, the original brand becomes used as a generalization for the entire genre...there is no such thing as a styrofoam cup, because Styrofoam (tm) does not make cups. Yet, as one of the original brands of polystyrene foam, we call all polystyrene foam "styrofoam".
We also call waxed paper cups "dixie cups", no matter the brand. 

It's usually not superiority, but originality that makes a brand synonymous with a product.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

tibber said:


> Your mileage will vary... just like calls to CSRs and installations, alas.
> 
> I knew about it, but it wasn't all over everything on my HR20s or my h20.
> 
> ...


It wasn't on the HR20 itself it was on the contract that I had to sign when it was installed.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

I need a Dixie cup to take an aspirin before I use a Kleenex.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

veryoldschool said:


> I need a Dixie cup to take an aspirin before I use a Kleenex.


Because you fell while on your RollerBlades


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Because you fell while on your RollerBlades


Well I really shouldn't have been wearing my RollerBlades while eating Jello and Xeroxing printed emails lol: I know people who print ALL their email)


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Okay...  I think we have covered that aspect..
:backtotop


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## dhaakenson (Jan 14, 2007)

Clint Lamor said:


> The committment was ALL over the documents I signed when the installed it, was told about it when I called to get it.


Interesting. DTV had me purchase mine locally and let me install it myself. Then they sent Ironwood out for a free alignment check, just to be sure I'd aligned it correctly. Never had me sign anything. Never received any contract or lease agreement.


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## Pink Fairy (Dec 28, 2006)

The commitment comes with the activation of the receiver. :/


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## machavez00 (Nov 2, 2006)

Clint Lamor said:


> The committment was ALL over the documents I signed when the installed it, was told about it when I called to get it.


and in the print ads (SD or HD)


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

dhaakenson said:


> Interesting. DTV had me purchase mine locally and let me install it myself. Then they sent Ironwood out for a free alignment check, just to be sure I'd aligned it correctly. Never had me sign anything. Never received any contract or lease agreement.


Wasn't even an option for me. I think many people here have had the same thing that they wnt to do the install. Not sure why that is but honestly I didn't want to do the install on this one anyway, figured let them put up the new slimline dish and new multi-switch. Make sure everything worked (installed did a good job). I was told when I called to get it though about the committment and that I would have to sign it when the install happened. I guess like talking to many of the CSRs it depends on who you get.


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## dhaakenson (Jan 14, 2007)

Blitz68 said:


> You are kidding right?
> 
> There were LOTS of problems with the Tivo. The only people that did not have the problems are the people who got them after they were out for a couple years and the bugs were worked out via software fixes. Kind of like what we are going thru now with the HR20.


Kind of like what we're going through now with the HR20? Only in the broadest sense are they even "kind of" comparable.

The HR20 ordeal is in a league all its own, except for those whose HR20s worked well and continue to do so. The odd thing about the HR20 is it works great for some, horribly for others. That makes it very difficult to accurately compare the two.

I think many of our experiences that we report (including mine) are so varied from that of others, I'm left questioning whether anything I even report has any relevance at all in the big picture!


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

dhaakenson said:


> ... except for those whose HR20s worked well and continue to do so.


Those people exist? Wow, you are speaking for the silent majority. 


dhaakenson said:


> I think many of our experiences that we report (including mine) are so varied from that of others, I'm left questioning whether anything I even report has any relevance at all in the big picture!


Variety can be the spice of life!


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## dhaakenson (Jan 14, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I don't think that is the reason.. "superior performance is endearing to many". If that is the case... explain why users of Comcast's DVR? TimeWarner DVR? and others.... refer to the action of recording something... TiVo-ing it? Even though they don't have a TiVo (and a lot don't even realize they don't have a TiVo)


They do it because TiVo is the gold standard by which all inferior DVRs are judged, including the lame devices they're currently using. I myself refrain from calling my HR20 a TiVo. That would be blasphemy! My TiVos record and play back television. My HR20 tries really, really hard to be a TiVo. It dreams of being a TiVo. Perhaps someday it will be TiVo's best friend. My fingers are tightly clenched with hope.



Earl Bonovich said:


> That is because for the last 6 years.. TiVo did one definent thing right... Marketing.


True. But the primary reason is that TiVo was able to create software that consistently records and plays back television, to such an extent that the public rejoiced with goose bumps and squeals of joy, rather than shrieks of anguish (which my HR20 still elicits daily at my house). Yeah, TiVo had good marketing. But no matter how great the marketing department is, it's very tough to sell a POS. TiVo is not a POS. It stands on its own. It's why everything else is compared with it. If everything in life were as good as a TiVo, we'd have nothing to talk about.


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## dhaakenson (Jan 14, 2007)

Ext 721 said:


> "Which is why the word TiVo has entered the vernacular, at least in the U.S. It's superior performance is endearing to many."
> 
> Puffs plus is a superior tissue (IMNSHO) to kleenex, but people still say "get me a kleenex" Sometimes, the original brand becomes used as a generalization for the entire genre...there is no such thing as a styrofoam cup, because Styrofoam (tm) does not make cups. Yet, as one of the original brands of polystyrene foam, we call all polystyrene foam "styrofoam".
> We also call waxed paper cups "dixie cups", no matter the brand.
> ...


True. We could carry the comparison further. TiVo let's me blow my nose and not get anything on my hand, fulfilling its primary function. HR20 not only gets stuff on my hands, I can't even tell what the stuff is.


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## Direction75 (Oct 18, 2006)

I dropped my service all the way down to the family package because I cant cancel their service. First off they have no HBO comedy and zone.They have to make these contracts to get people to stay with their service.I went back to Comcast with channels like HBO COMEDY HBO ZONE and Retroplex and indieplex!Once my freaken contract is up I pull the plug forever.Directv the TurdBird that should die.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

Not to get into the whole Tivo vs. DirecTV DVR debate, but... ok, I will. Tivo I believe is currently the gold standard of the industry. Mainly because they were really the first wide-spread DVR. Yeah you can argue that ReplayTV came first, but Tivo was the first successful one. And to be honest, they make a good product. They have great marketing - their ads during Christmas several years back made me want to go out and buy one. And their products are intuitive and easy to use.

All that being said, I think much of the glow around Tivo is due to perception - yeah, to some extent bias. And that's fine. You see this same type of fierce loyalty in other areas as well. Just make a comment about problems with, say, the Mac computer, and watch the Mac-users heads start to steam. They get visibly upset when you criticize certain aspects of that machine - I did that with a co-worker, complaining that the e-macs were too expensive. When he told me that they weren't and I then demonstrated that I could get a more powerful PC for about 1/3 of the price, he still wasn't convinced. Again, no issues with that - people like what they like, and I'm not about to try to convince them otherwise.

As for comparing the problems that Tivo has/had with say the R15 - I don't think that's a fair comparison. Yeah, on one hand Tivo broke the trail, so to speak. Figuring out many of the technical challenges that must exist in developing such a product. However, the original Tivos, I don't believe, are anywhere near as complex as say the R15. For example, one thing that I love about the R15 (I've said this before) is the integration between live tv and dvr functionality. That is extremely complex functionality to incorporate. And it's functionality that Tivo doesn't have. Tivo opted to go for the simpler solution with stuff like that, for whatever reason. My point is - the R15 and HR20 have bugs for a variety of reasons... but to say "well Tivo didn't have nearly these types of problems..." is somewhat misleading since Tivo didn't incorporate much of the functionality that the R15 and HR20 did. I'll grant that when you do a side by side comparison of equivalent functionality (stuff that exists in both platforms) Tivo executes better. But also realize that there is lots of stuff in the R15 and HR20 that doesn't exist in the Tivo platform.

I also wish people would refrain from telling me that their Tivo is perfect - never had a bug. Sorry, but I don't buy that, and it makes your argument totally unconvincing. When someone starts with the premise "my product is perfect... let me tell you why yours sucks..." people that you're trying to convince will quickly tune you out.


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## KurtV (Dec 21, 2006)

I don't understand why someone has to eventually take every thread down the Tivo-is-great-and-the-HR20-is-a-POS path. It's really an impediment to interesting, helpful dialogue.


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

Direction75 said:


> I dropped my service all the way down to the family package because I cant cancel their service. First off they have no HBO comedy and zone.They have to make these contracts to get people to stay with their service.I went back to Comcast with channels like HBO COMEDY HBO ZONE and Retroplex and indieplex!Once my freaken contract is up I pull the plug forever.Directv the TurdBird that should die.


Not only does DirecTV not have HBO Comedy or Zone they don't have the bandwith either to add these channels maybe in the future like 2008?

Contracts are the norm heck even Comcast has contracts for a lower rate.

Now you have found this Forum you can become an informed consumer.:welcome_s


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## Steve Robertson (Jun 7, 2005)

KurtV said:


> I don't understand why someone has to eventually take every thread down the Tivo-is-great-and-the-HR20-is-a-POS path. It's really an impediment to interesting, helpful dialogue.


No kidding it really gets old. I loved my Tivo but it was time to move on and have no regrets. I think people need to get over the fact Tivo will not be an option in the future


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## Blitz68 (Apr 19, 2006)

jpl said:


> All that being said, I think much of the *glow around Tivo *is due to perception - yeah, to some extent bias. And that's fine. You see this same type of fierce loyalty in other areas as well. Just make a comment about problems with, say, the Mac computer, and watch the Mac-users heads start to steam. They get visibly upset when you criticize certain aspects of that machine - I did that with a co-worker, complaining that the e-macs were too expensive. When he told me that they weren't and I then demonstrated that I could get a more powerful PC for about 1/3 of the price, he still wasn't convinced. Again, no issues with that - people like what they like, and I'm not about to try to convince them otherwise.


Hate to tell you this... okay maybe I don't. LOT of Tivo's success has to do with DirecTV. they took Tivo from a small yet successful idea to a mega idea.

I think DirecTV was the reason for like 80 some percent of there business.

Without DirecTV they might have died a while back.

Let's not forget who helped who. In turn they helped each other but DirecTV was not going to go anywhere but Tivo could have disappeared.


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## machavez00 (Nov 2, 2006)

James Long said:


> Those people exist? Wow, you are speaking for the silent majority. Variety can be the spice of life!


And E*'s DVRs are not having any issues?
From The E* section:


SteveB said:


> Haven't had recording problems, but I will protect the existing recordings as soon as I get home. But, just like L330, L331 boots on its own several times a day, drops a black screen covering 90% of the picture several times a day and every morning at about 8:20 am Pacific, requiring a soft reboot or hard power plug reboot. Sometimes the controls become sluggish. Off-air drops out more often. AND of course the OTA guide data is now missing (I do not subscribe to locals).





Mr.Gadget said:


> Well Dish released the "new and improved" P365 software recently. I think I was infected with it about a week ago (when my systems got extremely unreliable). Previously with P3.63, I had the systems setup so they would ASK before downloading, but somehow this was overridden and now has without my permission set (software override?)
> 
> I am not pleased at all with the new bugs introduced: Jerky fast-fwd/reverse, lockups, recorded material does not play (hang), must perform frequent hard resets, long periods of dark screen, frequent jumps to LIVE while watching delayed.
> 
> Dish, Get it right before you unleash the faulty software!!!!





promitiusx said:


> Starting today every time I try to set a manual timer on my 942 it freezes while loading the setup screen right after pressing the manual timer button, and then does a reboot. When it comes back up I have 259 Digital/analog local channels rather than the 16 I had before the reboot. My software version is L2.89





savecal said:


> Yes, with the new L2.89, I've got a whole bunch of bogus analog with a few bogus digitals that have shown up located above my last highest analog channel 50. I've not yet tried the manual timer, since the update, but my 942 did already reboot itself once when I tried to manually move to satellite channel 135. Fortunately, I was able to scroll up to get it without the reboot.


This nice thread: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=79230
and this one also: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=82914


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

Blitz68 said:


> Hate to tell you this... okay maybe I don't. LOT of Tivo's success has to do with DirecTV. they took Tivo from a small yet successful idea to a mega idea.
> 
> I think DirecTV was the reason for like 80 some percent of there business.
> 
> ...


Not disputing that at all. I said that Tivo's marketing is really good - the idea of tagging up with a supplier like DirecTV is a testament to that. I think the number of subscribers was closer to 50% through DirecTV. I don't disagree with what you're saying about HOW Tivo became so successful... but the point is that they DID become successful. DirecTV was smart enough to pull them on board, and Tivo was smart enough to glom onto DirecTV's success.

That's also why I don't understand when folks decry the fact that the R15 was the result of "a business decision" and "looking to the bottom line." Yeah, it is... but so what? So was Tivo. Tivo wasn't brought on board because they were considered to be the best DVR. They were brought on board to compete with things like Comcast's on-demand service. DirecTV would probably have gone with Replay if they could have gotten a good deal - they probably picked Tivo because of the business arrangement they could set up with Tivo. In other words, Tivo was brought on board because of a business decision, and because DirecTV was looking to neutralize a threat by Comcast - since DirecTV couldn't really match Comcast's on-demand, they changed the parameters of the game by one-upping Comcast. They figured that more folks would be interested in a DVR than they would in limited on-demand. The fact that every service out there now feels compelled to provide a DVR is a testament to the fact that they were right. The next time someone gnashes their teeth over the fact that the bottom line drives a decision, remember that it was that very fact that caused DirecTV to set the standard with offering DVR service cheap. If it weren't for that one business decision, DVRs in general, I don't believe, would be anywhere near as ubiquitous as they are today.


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## Mark20 (Dec 25, 2006)

I have my own ax to grind with Comcast due to their re-aligning the cable TV tier I was in. I lost 2/3 of the channels and would have had to pay 3 or 4 times as much to get them back. So I dropped them (TV and internet) and went with FIOS and D*. If I had pulled the trigger two weeks later I would have gotten FIOS TV and just put it all on one bill.

For a few $ cheaper on my overall bill I am getting a better package than Comcast's equivalent.


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## hr20manray (Dec 18, 2006)

Who cares who wins the DVR war or "my brand is better than your brand fight"? I currently own an HR20 dvr and partake in this forum because it is a good place to get solutions and ideas about the HR20. But if Ilo or Durabrand offered a dvr with the same capabilities at a much lower price, I would own one in a New York minute. It's disturbing to see such excessive brand loyalty to the point that it clouds one's judgement or logic. I want the best product at the lowest price.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

KurtV said:


> I don't understand why someone has to eventually take every thread down the Tivo-is-great-and-the-HR20-is-a-POS path. It's really an impediment to interesting, helpful dialogue.


Some people have a limited vocabulary. I too wonder why people so happy about "the other system" bother with the one they always complain about ... I've seen it in the E* vs D* threads as well. If one is so much better go with it and stop pestering people who are quite happy with their decision to go the other way.

I guess some people just like to make angry posts ... but that is drifting into psychology and outside the scope of this forum --- let's talk DBS.


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## gresmi (Mar 4, 2007)

machavez00 said:


> one of the things people are b***ng about on tvpredictions is "2 year agreements" Then don't get a cell phone.


But the cell phone usually works.

I don't have an HR20, so I can't comment on that, but I do have an H20...and I'm not impressed.

I had no problems with Directv for 7 years, but within 6 months of getting the H20, I 
really hate D*... and I have a 2 year commitment because of that *POS* (that's what makes it intolerable)

..but I still believe D* is the best out there...but I will start paying attention to other services offered now.


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## hr20manray (Dec 18, 2006)

gresmi said:


> ..but I still believe D* is the best out there...but I will start paying attention to other services offered now.


That's very close to how I feel. I have been with D* for I think about 15 years. I can't remember exactly, I know it was a Sony dish that blinked when it saw a satellite.... But anyway that's really close. I have never had any reason at all to even pay attention to anything else. But since I bought this HR20 I'm on a forum which I've never done. And I've written D* 3 letters since October of 2006, which I've never done. It's weird.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

gresmi said:


> I do have an H20...and I'm not impressed.
> I had no problems with Directv for 7 years, but within 6 months of getting the H20, I
> really hate D*... and I have a 2 year commitment because of that *POS* (that's what makes it intolerable)
> ..but I still believe D* is the best out there...but I will start paying attention to other services offered now.


I had/have the same feeling/opinion of the H20, but for me it is no different than my first HD receiver from Sony, their SAT HD-200 & coming to D*. I don't know if all "new" HD receivers are like this. After 18 months of dealing with Sony & D*, it just was frustrating beyond anything I'd ever been through. Finally Sony replaced it with their HD-300 and life was better.
Since I'd gone through this, I had great reservations about the "new" hardware. Sure enough, it wasn't the "happy" experience I'd finally achieved with my Sony.
While it's taken some time for my HR-20s to achieve the same satisfaction, for the last month or two, they have. The support D* is giving the HR-20 hopefully will "trickle down" to the H-20 soon.


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

gresmi said:


> But the cell phone usually works. (


I wish the cell phones in my family worked as well as our HR20 and H20. 100% for the last couple of months.


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## KurtV (Dec 21, 2006)

gresmi said:


> But the cell phone usually works.
> 
> I don't have an HR20, so I can't comment on that, but I do have an H20...and I'm not impressed.
> 
> ...


Leaving aside the flame-throwing implicit in using the POS term, your take on the cell phone analogy simply doesn't hold water. I'm on my fourth Treo in about 18 months because of hardware failures. Even my latest one, which I've had for about 6 months, frequently became "unprovisioned". I'm usually without e-mail capability and my contact lists for 1 -3 days until the IT staff can reprovision the phone. Blackberrys, Goodlink devices, and Blackjacks have all been plagued with similar problems.

You may be able to come up with another example of a high-end piece of consumer electronics that's been extremely reliable from the get-go, but cell phones (at least the more advanced ones) ain't it.


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## gresmi (Mar 4, 2007)

KurtV said:


> Leaving aside the flame-throwing implicit in using the POS term, your take on the cell phone analogy simply doesn't hold water. <deletia> Blackberrys, Goodlink devices, and Blackjacks have all been plagued with similar problems.


I'll ignore your flame-throwing implicit in mentioning my flame-throwing.

As far as the cell-phone analogy...I'm assuming you're not happy with a 2 year commitment and a phone that doesn't work as advertised.

That's how I feel about the H20


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## KurtV (Dec 21, 2006)

gresmi said:


> I'll ignore your flame-throwing implicit in mentioning my flame-throwing.
> 
> As far as the cell-phone analogy...I'm assuming you're not happy with a 2 year commitment and a phone that doesn't work as advertised.
> 
> That's how I feel about the H20


No, I'm very happy with the functionality I get with the Treo. I accept that new CE gear will frequently not be hiccup-free.

I understand that while my experience with the HR20 has been excellent, it hasn't been the same for everyone. That's one of the reasons I think the "it's a POS" posts and the "it's the greatest" posts are so counterproductive.


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

gresmi said:


> I'll ignore your flame-throwing implicit in mentioning my flame-throwing.
> 
> As far as the cell-phone analogy...I'm assuming you're not happy with a 2 year commitment and a phone that doesn't work as advertised.
> 
> That's how I feel about the H20


Well my Blackberry Pearl from T-Mobile (got the first one in October) was replaced in February because it started re-booting often during the day. The first replacement they sent me had a broken sim-card cover, and they sent me a third one which so far (knock wood) is ok. And yes, I had to sign a 2 year comittment to get this for free. My difference - I accept that these things have those types of issues, I was overnighted a replacement (twice in 2 days) and the company responded.

Cell phones in gerneral (all providers) suck. There are still lots of dead zones, and frankly large areas still exist where you CAN'T get a signal. That technology has been common for 20 years+ and it still sux.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Direction75 said:


> I dropped my service all the way down to the family package because I cant cancel their service. First off they have no HBO comedy and zone.They have to make these contracts to get people to stay with their service.I went back to Comcast with channels like HBO COMEDY HBO ZONE and Retroplex and indieplex!Once my freaken contract is up I pull the plug forever.Directv the TurdBird that should die.


Why wouldn't you just drop DirecTV now? If you're really that unhappy, and you're not using it, why prolong the agony? It's going to cost either way, I'm just curious if the penalty charge is greater than or less than the carrying costs?


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## brownclown (Feb 28, 2007)

dhaakenson said:


> They do it because TiVo is the gold standard by which all inferior DVRs are judged, including the lame devices they're currently using. I myself refrain from calling my HR20 a TiVo. That would be blasphemy! My TiVos record and play back television. My HR20 tries really, really hard to be a TiVo. It dreams of being a TiVo. Perhaps someday it will be TiVo's best friend. My fingers are tightly clenched with hope.
> 
> True. But the primary reason is that TiVo was able to create software that consistently records and plays back television, to such an extent that the public rejoiced with goose bumps and squeals of joy, rather than shrieks of anguish (which my HR20 still elicits daily at my house). Yeah, TiVo had good marketing. But no matter how great the marketing department is, it's very tough to sell a POS. TiVo is not a POS. It stands on its own. It's why everything else is compared with it. If everything in life were as good as a TiVo, we'd have nothing to talk about.


Because they were the 1st company to hit mainstream. Just like Earl said: ADVERTISING!!!!!
Imop replay tv was the best.


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## Direction75 (Oct 18, 2006)

brott said:


> Why wouldn't you just drop DirecTV now? If you're really that unhappy, and you're not using it, why prolong the agony? It's going to cost either way, I'm just curious if the penalty charge is greater than or less than the carrying costs?


They want $300.00 upfront I do not have that kind of extra money to hand them.They wont take payments for it and I cant put it on a credit card also so
I have to pay them by the month .


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## brownclown (Feb 28, 2007)

machavez00 said:


> And E*'s DVRs are not having any issues?
> From The E* section:
> 
> This nice thread: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=79230
> and this one also: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=82914


Are these old dvr's? Yes they are. Compare the 622 or even the 625 if hd is not your bag. HR20 loses, period.


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## jimb726 (Jan 9, 2007)

brownclown said:


> Are these old dvr's? Yes they are. Compare the 622 or even the 625 if hd is not your bag. HR20 loses, period.


I think that you are missing his point which was to say that when those DVR's were 6-9 months old they had problems, as do the HR20 and the S3 and in the past, the HR10 and the basic DirecTivo. Simply stating, as other people have in this thread, that other compaies trials and tribulations when launching a DVR are not relevant, is just foolish. It is a product created from the ground up. I think that was what he was trying to convey.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Direction75 said:


> They want $300.00 upfront I do not have that kind of extra money to hand them.They wont take payments for it and I cant put it on a credit card also so
> I have to pay them by the month .


Thanks for the input. I was under the impression that the penalty could be prorated for the number of months remaining on the contract. I guess that's not the case.


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

brott said:


> Thanks for the input. I was under the impression that the penalty could be prorated for the number of months remaining on the contract. I guess that's not the case.


It IS pro-rated. And to the best of my knowledge you can pay them by credit or debit card - they don't care how they get their money.


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## captain_video (Nov 22, 2005)

> Quote:
> Originally Posted by brott
> Why wouldn't you just drop DirecTV now? If you're really that unhappy, and you're not using it, why prolong the agony? It's going to cost either way, I'm just curious if the penalty charge is greater than or less than the carrying costs?
> 
> ...


DirecTV charges you $12.50 per month for each month you have left on a commitment period, but I believe there is also a maximum they will charge based on how much time you have left, which may be where you got the $300 figure. I'm not sure where you got the idea that they require any money up front if you're cancelling the service. I just dropped DTV this past weekend and they informed my that they'd be sending me a final bill.

If they ask for money just tell them to cancel the service immediately and bill you. You should be able to access your account online and pay using a credit card if you have set it up for online access. You can also set it up to pay using your checking account. Just make payments when you can until it's paid off. If they give you any grief when you call then keep escalating until you get someone higher up that will help you. The folks at customer retention are usually pretty helpful and will try to keep you as a customer but will let you cancel if they can't entice you to stick around. The experience I had was one of the most pleasant I've had when talking to a customer service rep for any company.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

dhaakenson said:


> They do it because TiVo is the gold standard by which all inferior DVRs are judged, including the lame devices they're currently using.


It has more to do with the TiVo being the first commercially viable device of its type (an idea that will doubtless be disputed by the ReplayTV zealots). The same thing happened early on in the days of half inch video tape when everything was a "betamax"; even when it was VHS.


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