# 942 and MPEG4?



## David_A (Nov 13, 2003)

Has it ever been said if the 942 will support MPEG4? I am considering a HD DVR but am hesitant to look at a 942 if it will be obsolete once E* switches to MPEG4.


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

No it does not, but I dont know why you could just not send the 942 into dish, where they then replace the mother board with a new one that does do Mpeg4 

I think this should be a free upgrade.


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## MarkoC (Apr 5, 2004)

David_A said:


> Has it ever been said if the 942 will support MPEG4?


I believe this has been said many times - the 942 will not support mpeg4.


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## Jordan420 (Nov 11, 2003)

http://www.dbstalk.com/search.php?searchid=526648


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## David_A (Nov 13, 2003)

See what kind of information you miss when you don't check the board for a month or so?

Thanks for the answers.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

I'd wait until their MPEG-4 HD DVR comes out. Most of the consumers out there do not know the information that we know about this. That is what Dish Network may be hoping for in order to rid of their MPEG-2 HD DVR stock. Maybe we will find some signifigant reductions in the MPEG-2 HD DVR's once the MPEG-4 comes out.


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## pjm877 (Apr 27, 2003)

I wonder what the processor/mem specs for this beastie is? Would it be good enough to use a Software decoder? Can you use a software decoder.. Have not done much reading up on this.. guess now would be a good time to start  

Later


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

I would be really surprised if there is enough hourse power in the 942 to handle all the operations lay the data of three possible streams on the drive and software decode two HD streams of data. Infact, I would say not a chance. Hell, I don't think a highboard single CPU machine would be able to do it. Well maybe, but not the 942.


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## pjm877 (Apr 27, 2003)

Ron Barry said:


> I would be really surprised if there is enough hourse power in the 942 to handle all the operations lay the data of three possible streams on the drive and software decode two HD streams of data. Infact, I would say not a chance. Hell, I don't think a highboard single CPU machine would be able to do it. Well maybe, but not the 942.


well no if you convert before you save to hda... but what if you do it after. that is you save it bit for bit as it comes from the source.. you only convert for the source being viewed on the fly. Sat's look to be the only ones looking to move to mpg4.. need the space... Ground based... not really...

So there is a delay... to hda first then viewing source... all data stored from sat is bit for bit what was sent... OTA would not require this "extra" step. I think there is a delay even now... and up to a set time is buffered for you to go back...

Data stream would have a flag... "I am mpg4, save as I am"... I am other save as SD...

Just thinking out loud.. bet the level of detail I need to see is not there viewable... E* would keep that close to the vest...

later


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

All E* DVRs already record the data stream unaltered (except possibly for re-encryption) from the LNBF.

Decoding is done on playback by the video chipset.


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## pjm877 (Apr 27, 2003)

SimpleSimon said:


> All E* DVRs already record the data stream unaltered (except possibly for re-encryption) from the LNBF.
> 
> Decoding is done on playback by the video chipset.


oh, :blush: Thanks for the info.. now to get my hands on the schematics


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

My point was that there is not enough horse power to move the decoding mechansim from the chipset to the CPU. That is if it could even be done with E* Receivers. Guess I was not clear enough in my response. Thanks for filling the Gap Simion


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## BobJ2004 (Feb 7, 2004)

Thats why they need mother board upgrades to get to Mpeg4


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Just three cents from me...

Software MPEG (2 or 4) decoding can be done with enough horsepower and can be done well. Thing is, you have to have a more expensive computer to do it than with an "add-on" card that does the decoding for the computer that can be mass-produced for everyone.

Linux-based systems can generally do this kind of thing with less horsepower than a Microsoft-Windows-based system, because Linux is a "slimmer" operating system with less overhead and more customizability (made up word) to allow you to just load what you need to perform desired functions.

Taken a step further... set-top boxes like Dish uses usually contain (if they are Linux-based) an even slimmer Linux o/s because they don't need anywhere near as many of the functions as you would for a home computer use.

That said... most of your manufacturers (Dish included here) are going to take advantage of all of the above... and generally only spring for as much hardware as is required to do the job.

Usually this is going to make software MPEG decoding not-so-good... so they go with hardware. NOW, if they would just find a way to make the MPEG decoder compartmentalized so that it could be swapped out easily for a little more dough in the development... then we'd have a winner.

However, obviously everything already developed before they thought of moving to MPEG4 would need to be replaced entirely at that point... so perhaps they figure that is just a given in their business model... and if the likelihood is going to be several years of migrating then several more years before they'd consider moving to a new/different technology after that... it may never be cost-effective to make upgradable boxes to that degree.


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## the_bear (Oct 18, 2004)

HDMe said:


> Software MPEG (2 or 4) decoding can be done with enough horsepower and can be done well.


There has not been a statement from Dish about which version of MPEG4 Dish will use. I assume it will be the standard H.264, not H.263 or the Microsoft version VC1. Even a 4 GHz P4, cannot decode H.264 HD in realtime when all the bells and whistles are turned on. I am surprised there is so much complaining about DBS providers being slow to adopt MPEG4. Just look at the current QuickTime and MS Media Player, neither one can decode H.264 without one of the shareware plugins. This stuff just isn't ready for mass production.


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## Equus911 (Mar 20, 2005)

I'm just going to go ahead and get the 942, but I'm going to get it with their current promotion where you pay an upgrade fee but you don't actually buy the receiver. There's no committment. That way, when they upgrade to MPEG-4 and I'm ready to switch, I'll just send it back to them and get the new one from them. That's my plan anyway.

<Fixed typo.. Thanks. >

--Equus


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## DRJDAN (Apr 28, 2002)

Equus911,

What are details of the upgrade? Can current users use it?


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## Cyclone (Jul 1, 2002)

I know that the 942 won't have a MPEG4 chip in it. But I do think that when Dish releases their MPEG-4 DVR, it will actually be a 942 renamed and it will use a MPEG4 chip. Maybe they will call it a 952, and bump up the Hard Disk space for that VOD stuff. 

While any CPU can likely do MPEG-4 decoding, keep in mind the throughput limitations of the BUS and CPU. There is a big difference between a little postage stamp sized video that you download on the internet in MPEG-4, and a 1920x1080 HDTV video stream. Being able to decode this in real time is where the CPUs aren't up to it. That is why they can't download a new software release to the existing HD receivers to support MPEG-4.


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## DRJDAN (Apr 28, 2002)

Cyclone or anyone else,

Based on what you know about the MPEG-4 hardware technology, when to you think the earliest that Dish could offer an MPEG-4 HD DVR along with the satellite to support it? I am trying to determine the minimun time period I would keep the 942 before needing a new one to deal with MPEG-4's additonal channels.

Is is reasonal to assume that Dish will keep the current MPEG-2 HD offerings for a while since their current HD customers would most likely not convert to new MPEG-4 turner overnight? Based on this question how long do you think DISH would keep the current MPEG-2 offerings after MPEG-4 is operational.


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## larrystotler (Jun 6, 2004)

It will probably be up to 2 years before E* has swapped out allk the HD receivers. However, keep in mind that they will still see SD channels as SD until that changeover happens, and that one will be a problem due to the massive # os receivers to replace. They will probably not switch it all over to MPEG4 until ALL activer receivers have been replaced, so don't be in any hurry to see more channels because of the MPEG4 changeover.


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## DRJDAN (Apr 28, 2002)

larrystoler,

Even after the change over, how would MPEG-4 be able to make a SD broadcast be HD?


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