# 4th Wave of HD launches on DTV



## coldmiser (Mar 10, 2007)

How's everyone feel about that? They have quite the line up now. 

I'm getting close to switching. Cost wise I would end up saving about $15 a month and have more channels.


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## Sirshagg (Dec 30, 2006)

coldmiser said:


> How's everyone feel about that? They have quite the line up now.
> 
> I'm getting close to switching. Cost wise I would end up saving about $15 a month and have more channels.


Just need Comedy Central and Spike and my entire "Channels I Watch" list will be in HD.


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## rictorg (Feb 2, 2007)

I've stopped referring my friends who are looking for HD to E*, but haven't started looking at D* for myself quite yet. The 622 keeps me here... but if it winds up being the only thing keeping me here, I might jump to the D*


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## Taco Lover (Jan 8, 2007)

A price hike of their HD Pack is inevitable. There's no way they'll keep it at $10 if Dish charges $20 for less(?) channels.


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## Sirshagg (Dec 30, 2006)

Taco Lover said:


> A price hike of their HD Pack is inevitable. There's no way they'll keep it at $10 if Dish charges $20 for less(?) channels.


Well, It's $15 to get them all in Dec.


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## GCanada (Apr 3, 2007)

It'll be a two tier HD setup. Only about 6 or so channels in that second tier that'll be around $5 or so.


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## tomcrown1 (Jan 16, 2006)

like I have posted elsewere I will wait untill Feburary to see what Dish will do to meet Direct TV HD assualt.

If Dish does nothing then expect a hugh turn rate at Dish come this Feburary.'

Alot of us long time Dish customers would like to think that Dish will keep up, but if Dish doesnt I am sure Dish will see a decrease in its customer base.

I may stay if Dish comes out with a receiver that provides a great picture. Right now picture quality is more important than the number of HD channels---That is why I may go to Comcast Cable as the do seem to have a better HD picture then Dish or Direct Tv and I base this on watching both Direct Tv and Comcast cable, at the homes of my various friends.


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## jgurley (Feb 1, 2005)

Here's a link which list DirecTV's HD offerings:

http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/news/2007/10/directv_hd_revo.php

Here's a link which compares the HD offerings of several providers (the author says it will be updated this Wednesday, 10/17):

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=419472

D* is upgrading their HD offerings at just the right time of year when many people will be making HDTV purchases for Christmas. For those first timers many will also be making a decision for their programming provider. Many will just stay with whichever provider they currently have, but others will be re-evaluating. It's interesting to note that Best Buy and Circuit City promote D* for satellite while Sears and Radio Shack offer E*.

I wonder which satellite provider will sign up more new subscribers over the Christmas buying season?


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## rogerpl (Aug 16, 2006)

I'll wait a few months more before any serious consideration of switching. I have my locals OTA but no NESN HD which will be the biggest issue come spring. Still prefer E* equipment and D* still has startup costs. As for cost no difference for me. D* cheaper programming but extra on rental equipment. So for now I wait.


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## bobukcat (Dec 20, 2005)

tomcrown1 said:


> I may stay if Dish comes out with a receiver that provides a great picture. Right now picture quality is more important than the number of HD channels---That is why I may go to Comcast Cable as the do seem to have a better HD picture then Dish or Direct Tv and I base this on watching both Direct Tv and Comcast cable, at the homes of my various friends.


I'm no expert on it but my guess is that the receivers they (both providers) are selling now are capable of the best possible picture quality the 720P/ 1080i HD standard provides for, the picture quality is more an issue of bandwidth and compression (they go hand in hand, of course). If they had fewer channels or more satellite capacity the picture quality would (will?) improve. If they just decide to use their bandwidth for the maximum number of channels by further compression then the picture suffers.


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## DoyleS (Oct 21, 2002)

Out of the gate, E* takes a quick lead followed by Comcast and D*. 
Around the second turn D* pulls into the lead. Followed by E* and who is ahead of Comcast by a neck. 
Now down the backstretch D* extends its lead over E* and Comcast to a full length. 

.....And so goes the race. I think I'll just let the horses run for awhile. This time of year most of my HD watching is the new Network shows which I have both via SAT and OTA. 

..Doyle


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## braven (Apr 9, 2007)

Sirshagg said:


> Well, It's $15 to get them all in Dec.


IMO, $15 is a bargain compared to what the E* fellas have been paying for their HD.


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## nataraj (Feb 25, 2006)

jgurley said:


> Here's a link which compares the HD offerings of several providers (the author says it will be updated this Wednesday, 10/17):
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=419472


Well, I decided to update early 

With this update D* "officially" overtakes E* - 44 to 40.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

In today's, er, yesterday's Wall Street Journal DTV had a total of:
Section One: 8 pages of ads.
Section Two: 6 1/2 pages of ads.
Section Three: 2 pages of ads.


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## He Save Dave (Jun 6, 2006)

Man, they are gettin' the hookup.


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## jrb531 (May 29, 2004)

I hope Dish has an answer for this.
I hope Dish has not been too busy counting their $$$ on their overpriced $20 HD package.

Yes the $20 is starting to be "somewhat" justified as more channels are added and yes I just turned back on my HD but for over a year that $20 was a ripoff IMHO.

As I said before, the 622 is keeping me for the moment at Dish and nothing more. The days of "loyalty" to Dish are long gone after Dish nickeled and dimed me over silly fees that made no sense.

Whatever happens to Dish is their own doing. They squandered a customer base that was "very" loyal to Dish by trying to offer "teaser" prices at the expense of their long term customers.

Saying that they are the cheapest Pay TV provider means nothing if by the time you add up all the silly made up fees the "total" cost ends up being the same as the other providers.

Whoever came up with the 622 saved Dish IMHO because that one box is what is keeping so many people from switching.

Dish had better come up with something fast because the 622 is not going to keep people here forever.

-JB

P.S. I did not even mention the now infamous Dish CSR's who have dived into a new class of poor customer service. I swear that Dish only hires CSR's in India who have been fired from other CSR jobs


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

jgurley said:


> D* is upgrading their HD offerings at just the right time of year when many people will be making HDTV purchases for Christmas. For those first timers many will also be making a decision for their programming provider. Many will just stay with whichever provider they currently have, but others will be re-evaluating. It's interesting to note that Best Buy and Circuit City promote D* for satellite while Sears and Radio Shack offer E*.
> 
> I wonder which satellite provider will sign up more new subscribers over the Christmas buying season?


You're assuming, of course, that people are intelligent enough to realize that just because they buy an HDTV does NOT mean they'll get an HD picture. You wouldn't believe how many stupid people are out there who think that if they buy an HDTV and plug it in, Voila! They've got HD PQ.

I read an interesting fact mentioned in a poll recently, one that said 75% of American consumers had HDTV as their #1 item on their Christmas wish list this year. However, of these people, only _*2%*_ said they were going to buy a digital set top box (satelite receiver or cable box) with which to view the HD content. Unbelievable.


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## DoyleS (Oct 21, 2002)

It was interesting that the local Comcast here in the South Bay Area announced some pretty significant price increases on all of their packages in the paper today. Basic cable dropped 70 cents but everything else went up anywhere from $2 to about $7. Could be a bunch of people looking to switch horses by the end of the year. 

..Doyle


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## gneagle (Oct 5, 2007)

Maybe the rest are going to use OTA? (I doubt it, but there _is_ a portion of the public that will go the free route. My OTA HD stations look fantastic - and they are free.)



Lord Vader said:


> I read an interesting fact mentioned in a poll recently, one that said 75% of American consumers had HDTV as their #1 item on their Christmas wish list this year. However, of these people, only _*2%*_ said they were going to buy a digital set top box (satelite receiver or cable box) with which to view the HD content. Unbelievable.


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## jgurley (Feb 1, 2005)

> You're assuming, of course, that people are intelligent enough to realize that just because they buy an HDTV does NOT mean they'll get an HD picture.


 Your right about this. I've also read about the number of consumers who have an HDTV but don't realize they need the appropriate programming.

To me that speaks volumes about the quality of sales people working in most of the big box stores, CC and BB especially and probably many RS stores. I doubt if they even bother to ask how the consumer plans on receiving HD programming.

Along the same line, it's still amazing to me how little most people seem to know about the 2/2009 digital deadline (assuming that holds up). Ask a friend or coworker someday, or walk into BB or CC and ask a sales person about this. It's almost always good for a laugh.


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

gneagle said:


> Maybe the rest are going to use OTA? (I doubt it, but there _is_ a portion of the public that will go the free route. My OTA HD stations look fantastic - and they are free.)


I neglected to mention that people can still get HD via OTA. Of course, that only would work if (a) they're physically able to have some sort of antenna with which to receive said signals, and (b) live "close enough" to get them WITH that antenna.


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## rbonzer (May 13, 2002)

Lord Vader said:


> You wouldn't believe how many stupid people are out there who think that if they buy an HDTV and plug it in, Voila! They've got HD PQ.


I wouldn't necessarily call them stupid. After all, when converting from black and white to color, this is all they had to do.


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

I'd still call them stupid. And most of them try out for game shows, too.


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## motts (Apr 11, 2006)

Lord Vader said:


> I neglected to mention that people can still get HD via OTA. Of course, that only would work if (a) they're physically able to have some sort of antenna with which to receive said signals, and (b) live "close enough" to get them WITH that antenna.


Well, any old antenna works to pick up an hd signal. I see the advertisements for "hd antennas" costing a pretty penny when it's the same damned thing with a different name. I use the antenna that was on my house when my family first got cable in the 80's to pick up my locals in hd. There has to be a good chunk of the populace that will do just that, and, inadvertently pick up the hd signal they didn't even know about (provided that their locals are available in hd.)


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

Except that as I mentioned, one has to be *able * to receive the signals. Distance and terrain may often cause problems in that regard. Putting up a big traditional antenna on a house can often help, but for those who live 40, 50, 70, or more miles away and in a condo or apartment, for example--and there are a LOT of these people around--will find it nearly impossible to get OTA signals.


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## sb40 (Nov 29, 2005)

tomcrown1 said:


> like I have posted elsewere I will wait untill Feburary to see what Dish will do to meet Direct TV HD assualt.
> 
> If Dish does nothing then expect a hugh turn rate at Dish come this Feburary.'
> 
> ...


I need to know.

Is that with the NEW LNB5 AND NEW STB HR-20, H-20 and on the "NEW CHANNELS" If ConCAST has better picture then the NEW channels on D* I would eat my shoe.


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## gjh3260 (Mar 19, 2006)

Will stick with Dish through April since I have the Center Ice package. If nothing happens by then with E* and their HD some decisions will have to be made.


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## lpmiller (Mar 8, 2007)

switching over channels for something that will eventually equalize seems silly. Everyone will have most everything, kind of like they do now with SD. The only race is the timing, and to me that is irrelevant if they all end up in the same spot anyway.


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## normang (Nov 14, 2002)

This grass is greener stuff is really silly, its only a matter of time before each has the same with some exceptions on each side. 

And of course there is the questionable watch-ability of a number of the channels, even now on both sides, some channels will be stared at for a total of a few minutes..

To sell your old gear, return leased gear, wait for the end of contracts, install all new Dish's, new hardware, new switches, all for a couple extra channels that will more than likely show up on Dish eventually, because I doubt that Dish is going it sit on its hands and let Direct out do them in the HD channel dept..


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## ssmith10pn (Jul 6, 2005)

Hard to beat a DISH DVR with external HD. I'm staying put.


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

Huh? I've got a DirecTV HR20-700 with an external eSATA drive of 1TB. And I didn't have to fork over a $39.99 activation fee for that drive. I literally plugged and played it, and thankfully, D* is soon planning on making those external drives supplementary and not a replacement for the internal one.

Can't get much easier than this for external drives!


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## BNUMM (Dec 24, 2006)

I believe people have mentioned that they are using 3 Terabytes in posts on the DirecTv side of the forum.


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

I think so. I'm fine with a 1TB drive in an Antec enclosure. So far so good for me, so I can't complain, knock on wood.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

ssmith10pn said:


> Hard to beat a DISH DVR with external HD. I'm staying put.


that is the ONLY reason i'm still with E*...the whole "they will get them eventually" is getting old. A lot of people watch most of their shows on those channels. I do not want to wait until February to get them...wait 4 months? By then what else will D* offer? E* has horrible marketing with not telling anybody what they are planning or at least attempting. We just see the channels when they pop up...like I said...it's getting old...equipment will only keep me around for a little while.


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## normang (Nov 14, 2002)

texaswolf said:


> that is the ONLY reason i'm still with E*...the whole "they will get them eventually" is getting old. A lot of people watch most of their shows on those channels. I do not want to wait until February to get them...wait 4 months? By then what else will D* offer? E* has horrible marketing with not telling anybody what they are planning or at least attempting. We just see the channels when they pop up...like I said...it's getting old...equipment will only keep me around for a little while.


So you expect within what, hours, days, for E* to be able to add any channel you want, just because it showed up somewhere else?

Last time I checked, each and every channel costs money, requires a contract with the provider, needs space on a transponder, and who knows what all else, and you seem to expect that its just going to go "poof" and appear in your guide just because it showed up on D*?

If you can't wait, and your not under a contract (for if you are, be ready to pay that early termination fee) and return that leased gear, ( or try and sell your stuff) and then get into a new contract, get all new gear installed, new dishes installed, and then hope its as good as you think it will be... then do it now.. why wait...


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

normang said:


> So you expect within what, hours, days, for E* to be able to add any channel you want, just because it showed up somewhere else?
> 
> Last time I checked, each and every channel costs money, requires a contract with the provider, needs space on a transponder, and who knows what all else, and you seem to expect that its just going to go "poof" and appear in your guide just because it showed up on D*?
> 
> If you can't wait, and your not under a contract (for if you are, be ready to pay that early termination fee) and return that leased gear, ( or try and sell your stuff) and then get into a new contract, get all new gear installed, new dishes installed, and then hope its as good as you think it will be... then do it now.. why wait...


Correct me if I'm wrong...but hasn't D* been claiming to do this for months? Granted we all figured it was blowing smoke....but "poof"...here they are...so yeah...i do expect E* to have something, or tell us something, or respond in someway...it wasn't "hours" or "days" that E* knew about this...the "leader" in HD should have been ready for this. I know it takes money to get channels...something E* doesn't seem quick to spend. I would be happy if Charlie came out and said "we plan to launch such and such in HD around this time" at least we have an idea what they are working on....but we get nothing...customer support doesnt even have a clue on what they are working on...leaves all of us in the dark ...hoping...guessing....we will hear or get something soon.

Like I said...I like E* equipment better...thats why I haven't "just switched now" but i would like to hear something about their plans. Yes I am under contract...so it would cost me a nice "fine" to get more HD content. Not to mention...we can"t even get the CW in HD...if they wont spend money for that local station...I don"t expect quick deals with bigger networks.


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## normang (Nov 14, 2002)

texaswolf said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong...but hasn't D* been claiming to do this for months? Granted we all figured it was blowing smoke....but "poof"...here they are...so yeah...i do expect E* to have something, or tell us something, or respond in someway...it wasn't "hours" or "days" that E* knew about this...the "leader" in HD should have been ready for this. I know it takes money to get channels...something E* doesn't seem quick to spend. I would be happy if Charlie came out and said "we plan to launch such and such in HD around this time" at least we have an idea what they are working on....but we get nothing...customer support doesnt even have a clue on what they are working on...leaves all of us in the dark ...hoping...guessing....we will hear or get something soon.
> 
> Like I said...I like E* equipment better...thats why I haven't "just switched now" but i would like to hear something about their plans. Yes I am under contract...so it would cost me a nice "fine" to get more HD content. Not to mention...we can"t even get the CW in HD...if they wont spend money for that local station...I don"t expect quick deals with bigger networks.


For months E* was the leader, and D* was blowing smoke, and now they've finally implemented what they were saying.

Should E* have been ready for this, last time I checked, they've added what, nearly a dozen HD channels in the past 2.5 months? Probably there is more to come, but Dish doesn't seem to do what D* did and blow smoke for months, they seem to want to have it nearly ready to go before announcing. Would I like more info, sure, but sometimes giving out information and not being able to deliver on time causes more problems than saying, here it comes.

While I don't understand all the issues, CW does seem to be unique and may or may not be a part of locals in any area for a while and if you cannot get it with your 6/722 HD OTA, then its just not there..

I would not expect CSR's to tell you anything either, even if they knew something, chances are they could be terminated for giving out information that people should not know in advance. Companies choose when and how to reveal things in what they feel will do them the most good. D* blew smoke and mirrors for months.. I would have preferred that they announce it when they were ready to go, not sit around and wonder if they would ever deliver.

So now D* finally delivers, and here we discuss "should I switch?" well the grass isn't always greener on the other side and even if it is, there is usually a hassle and expense to get there..

And I happen to believe that most of these channels will appear on Dish sooner or later anyway. I don't think its if, its when. There are probably going to be some exceptions, and so each side will be going "I have this one and you don't"... yay - corporate pissing match over perhaps a couple channels that perhaps some significant percentage may not care about anyway, hard to say until the playing field levels off and I suspect that is going to take a few more months.. and I don't mind waiting.. as I don't see much that I am missing. There are a couple channels I see as interesting, and I expect those to show up.. Dish is probably being deluged for channel requests from this anyway.


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

normang said:


> For months E* was the leader, and D* was blowing smoke, and now they've finally implemented what they were saying.
> 
> Should E* have been ready for this, last time I checked, they've added what, nearly a dozen HD channels in the past 2.5 months? Probably there is more to come, but Dish doesn't seem to do what D* did and blow smoke for months, they seem to want to have it nearly ready to go before announcing.


I guess you haven't had a chance to read the press release they put out today. No smoke in those comments. :nono2: :nono2: :nono2: :nono2:

DISH Network®, *home of the best sports *and movies in high definition :nono2: :nono2:

75 National HD channels :nono2: :nono2:


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

normang said:


> For months E* was the leader, and D* was blowing smoke, and now they've finally implemented what they were saying.
> 
> Should E* have been ready for this, last time I checked, they've added what, nearly a dozen HD channels in the past 2.5 months? Probably there is more to come, but Dish doesn't seem to do what D* did and blow smoke for months, they seem to want to have it nearly ready to go before announcing. Would I like more info, sure, but sometimes giving out information and not being able to deliver on time causes more problems than saying, here it comes.
> 
> ...





> hey seem to want to have it nearly ready to go before announcing. Would I like more info, sure, but sometimes giving out information and not being able to deliver on time causes more problems than saying, here it comes.


Sure be a little loose on release date...but how about a..."we are working to add "these" channels for our customers" instead of "we will offer HD channels when they become available" which is the same as "when we get them we get them". We dont even know if what they are trying to get....i dont want smoke and mirrors...but a heads up that we are working on these channels...might keep a few more people around. As far as the "hassle" of switching if someone wanted...new dish and all that....1 afternoon appt. will take care of it...thats not much of a fear as it would seem. Thats the great thing about choices, people can switch whenever (contract aside). I had switched from charter and love dish compared to them, but with D* smoke becoming reality now...it's annoying. You may not care about getting those channels in HD, but a lot of customers do...BSG, Nip Tuck, Rescue Me ect. are highly acclaimed and watched shows that are done in HD. Take a look at any HD or Sat. boardout there and there are a lot more E* customers out there talking about making the leap if they don't hear anything soon....key word is HEAR....what a surprise we don't get charlie chat this month...the month D* finally came through...be nice to hear his comments.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

> DISH Network®, home of the best sports and movies in high definition


Yeah...losing MLB was a major blow also....like I said...they don't like to pony up the $...look how long BIG 10 took to get...after MUCH complaining.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

E* got the deal for Big Ten that E* wanted ... and they have ALL of the Big Ten coverage available now. D* still has not added the alt HD games on the weekend.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

James Long said:


> E* got the deal for Big Ten that E* wanted ... and they have ALL of the Big Ten coverage available now. D* still has not added the alt HD games on the weekend.


Right and I'm grateful for that...too bad Big Ten fans had to miss on of the best games in history due to it....but at least they finally got it...and they did say they were trying to get it....why not do that with somr of the key D* HD releases...thats all


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## BigSey (Oct 18, 2006)

I'm sorry but without Sunday Ticket and Extra Innings in HD (or at all for that matter), there is no way that E* should be claiming to be "home of the best sports and movies in high definition." That's just wrong.


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

They don't have the NFL Sunday Ticket. They don't have MLB Extra Innings. They don't have the NCAA Mega March Madness tournament package. DirecTV has all. 

So how again can E* be the "best"?


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

BigSey said:


> I'm sorry but without Sunday Ticket and Extra Innings in HD (or at all for that matter), there is no way that E* should be claiming to be "home of the best sports and movies in high definition." That's just wrong.


And NOT offering NESN-HD or YES (SD or HD) - those are only the 2 MOST WATCHED RSNS.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

If NESN-HD and YES would negotiate fairly they would be on E*. CSN CHI made it on E* after similar problems (programmer wanting a 24/7 slot with E* offering game coverage). YES demands better placement than every other RSN on the system (similar to BTN, before BTN conceded their position).

Season Ticket packages are fine for people who like one sport regardless of who is playing (or is not in the region with their favorite team). But they are not the killer application.


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

James Long said:


> If NESN-HD and YES would negotiate fairly they would be on E*.


Fairly as in Charlies eyes? Seems that YES and NESN have made it on ALL the other respective systems. I guess D* and ALL the cablecos are wrong - and Chuckie is the only right one.

I know you are (and its ok of course) a DISH fan, but you don't always have to take Charlie's pocketbook position. He is wrong sometimes you know.

BTW - NFL-ST has only - 2 million paying customers.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Fair in the eyes of most of the 13.585 million people in America who count the most.
Those who pay their E* bill each month.


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

I don't buy that standard answer for moment. It is too late now, but DISH suffers in this market (the LARGEST) by not offering YES - it would have more than made up for the cost to Charlie. You wouldn't be paying any more if he was carrying it - that is all hype.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

The point isn't how much those 13.585 million people are paying and whether they would or would not be paying more if YES were added (or the other channels that demand more than E* is willing to give). The point is that there are plenty of people willing to keep their subscriptions DESPITE all the claims that "E* will lose by not carrying _ fill in the blank _".

I expect they will continue to GAIN more customers than D*. They have been good at that for a while!


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

James Long said:


> DESPITE all the claims that "E* will lose by not carrying _ fill in the blank _".
> 
> I expect they will continue to GAIN more customers than D*. They have been good at that for a while!


Since 2002 they have added almost exactly the SAME number of customers. I for one have never said they will lose by not carrying.....

I DID SAY that they would DEFINITELY HAVE many more customers in the LARGEST DMA if they carried the YES network.

With DISH's non-response to the onslaught of DirecTV's HD adds this month, your expectations are more than likely not going to happen. Can't you tell by the sheer desperation in DISH's press release today?


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

James Long said:


> Fair in the eyes of most of the 13.585 million people in America who count the most.
> Those who pay their E* bill each month.


I'm one of those customers, and I could really give a damn about what Charlie considers fair prices. As far as a company he needs to do what it takes to offer the same content to keep customers. If he is worried about losing $$$ and feels the need to up E* prices...he'll pay for it true...but playing the waiting game and losing some bids....could cost him more.

Tell me why is it that E* is getting all the "unfair" pricing and D* isn't? Do people in the industry not like him, or is it all about who you are tied to?

John you even have to admit that this doesn't look good on E* marketing dept. hell the cust. care office doesn't even seem to care if we leave...myself and a workmate talked to them and mentioned leaving, and their response was...thats your choice...but you may regret it....NICE RETENTION DEPT. You could tell they have heard the complaint before...I just wish they would come out and give E* cust. a reason to look forward with staying with them.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

ScoBuck said:


> Since 2002 they have added almost exactly the SAME number of customers.


Still moving the cheese on that one? How about you find a year for which that bogus claim works and stick with it?

June 2007 ... D* 16.3 million subs
Dec 2004 ... D* 13.9 million subs (2.4 million added since 2004)
Dec 2003 ... D* 12.2 million subs (4.1 million added since 2003)
Dec 2002 ... D* 11.2 million subs (5.1 million added since 2002)
Dec 2001 ... D* 10.7 million subs (5.6 million added since 2001)

June 2007 ... E* 13.585 million subs
Dec 2004 ... E* 10.905 million subs (2.68 million added since 2004)
Dec 2003 ... E* 9.425 million subs (4.16 million added since 2003)
Dec 2002 ... E* 8.18 million subs (5.4 million added since 2002)
Dec 2001 ... E* 6.83 million subs (6.7 million added since 2001)

Since 2002 ... 5.8% more added by E*
Since 2003 ... 1.5% more added by E*
Since 2004 ... 11.6% more added by E*
Oooooh that "Since 2003" number looks good, was that the one you were looking for?


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

James Long said:


> Still moving the cheese on that one? How about you find a year for which that bogus claim works and stick with it?
> 
> June 2007 ... D* 16.3 million subs
> Dec 2004 ... D* 13.9 million subs (2.4 million added since 2004)
> ...


If DISH had 8.18 in Dec of 2002 and 13.58 in June of 2007 - they added 5.40 million.

if D* had 11.2 in Dec 2002 and 16.3 in June of 2007 they added 5.10 The difference between the 2 is 300,000 in 5 years (60k a year).

Like I said almost exactly the same.

I also notice that since I clearly mentioned since 2002 - you added the year 2001 which we all know was a great year for DISH. But - outside the range I clearly mentioned.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

ScoBuck said:


> If DISH had 8.18 in Dec of 2002 and 13.58 in June of 2007 - they added 5.40 million.
> 
> if D* had 11.2 in Dec 2002 and 16.3 in June of 2007 they added 5.10 The difference between the 2 is 300,000 in 5 years (60k a year).
> 
> Like I said almost exactly the same.


My question James...is how much will E* numbers drop since they aren't giving as much as a peep about when or what they are doing to compete?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

ScoBuck said:


> If DISH had 8.18 in Dec of 2002 and 13.58 in June of 2007 - they added 5.40 million.


Number corrected and percentages added.

2003 must be the year you are looking for. 



texaswolf said:


> My question James...is how much will E* numbers drop since they aren't giving as much as a peep about when or what they are doing to compete?


Based on all the other doomsday predictions ... E* will gain subs in Q4.


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

James Long said:


> Number corrected and percentages added.
> 
> 2003 must be the year you are looking for.
> 
> Based on all the other doomsday predictions ... E* will gain subs in Q4.


What the heck are you even talking about. Dish added a total of 300k more subs in the past 5 years than DirecTV - that is pretty close to even.

I think you have blinders on. DISH is in trouble right now. No need to take it so personal though.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

ScoBuck said:


> What the heck are you even talking about. Dish added a total of 300k more subs in the past 5 years than DirecTV - that is pretty close to even.


Only if you stick on the blinders and ignore the fact that 300k is 5.8% more additions to E* than D*.



> I think you have blinders on. DISH is in trouble right now. No need to take it so personal though.


Ditto. Remain fact based and stop moving the cheese!


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

James Long said:


> Number corrected and percentages added.
> 
> 2003 must be the year you are looking for.
> 
> Based on all the other doomsday predictions ... E* will gain subs in Q4.


I can understand that...but were any of those other doomsday predictions right after D* finally launched a bunch of wanted channels? Thats my concern


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

In this case the doomsday is "D* launches a competitive HD package".
Whatever will E* do! 

Survive. Just like every other time.


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

James Long said:


> Survive. Just like every other time.


Just as D* thrived the past few years. But who has said anything about E* not surviving. You are stretching things worse than TNT does.

I don't think they are going anywhere (except under the ATT&T umbrella). But I do honestly think you are way too attached to be fair in your view.

Whatever - you haven't lost an argument or conceeded a point to anyone that I can remember.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

James Long said:


> In this case the doomsday is "D* launches a competitive HD package".
> Whatever will E* do!
> 
> Survive. Just like every other time.


yeah...but as far me and other customers go as far as E* "survival" goes...I could care less...i want to receive available HD channels....E* knew this was coming and hasn't told us squat...besides "those channels arn't in HD"......really?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

ScoBuck said:


> Whatever - you haven't lost an argument or conceeded a point to anyone that I can remember.


Moving the cheese again ... can't win the point that you claimed so you move on to a different attack.
I try not to lose arguments ... but I have lost a couple over time.



texaswolf said:


> yeah...but as far me and other customers go as far as E* "survival" goes...I could care less...i want to receive available HD channels....E* knew this was coming and hasn't told us squat...besides "those channels arn't in HD"......really?


BTW: :welcome_s: ... lots of posts for your first day here? Should I know you? 

E* has been consistent in adding more customers than they lose ... net growth ... You may not be an E* customer for long, but someone will take your place and likely bring a friend.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

James Long said:


> Moving the cheese again ... can't win the point that you claimed so you move on to a different attack.
> I try not to lose arguments ... but I have lost a couple over time.
> 
> BTW: :welcome_s: ... lots of posts for your first day here? Should I know you?
> ...


lol..no you shouldn't know me...just an annoyed E* customer who can't get answers from E*. I know they will "probably" add the channels...its just when. I'm one of those people who can't stand to watch SD channels anymore....so it bugs me to know I can be watching the channels I like...but yet I can't


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Is there a reason why a supposedly happy DirecTV would be spending so much time in a Dish forum? Maybe there's nothing good to watch on all those new channels?

Seriously.. I find it increasingly amazing and annoying that some folks want to stir up trouble when there really is nothing to be stirred.


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

Yes there is BTW. And every time one of us makes a good point, the stock answer is why would a DirecTV sub post in a DISH thread. Just read post 37 and how foolish it is - I felt the need to give some correct info.

I assure you people from your side post daily in the DirecTv forums as well.

Oh - were you lost in the DirecTV forum when you made this post?
http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1214347&postcount=31


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Really? I have not seen that "stock answer" in a while. Perhaps D* subs are not making any points? 

Here is a gentle reminder ...
Most E* customers are happy with their service ... price and channel selection.
Those that are unhappy really don't need anyone to tell them to be unhappy.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

ScoBuck said:


> Yes there is BTW. And every time one of us makes a good point, the stock answer is why would a DirecTV sub post in a DISH thread. Just read post 37 and how foolish it is - I felt the need to give some correct info.
> 
> I assure you people from your side post daily in the DirecTv forums as well.


People also shoot people every day, but it doesn't make me feel like I need to go do it.

I see Dish people in DirecTV forums too... and I don't understand that either.

I also don't feel the need to go "correct" people in a DirecTV forum even if I read something there.

What's the point?


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

HDMe said:


> People also shoot people every day, but it doesn't make me feel like I need to go do it.
> 
> I see Dish people in DirecTV forums too... and I don't understand that either.
> 
> ...


look above - I have shown that you DO go and post in the DirecTv threads when you feel you want to.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

ScoBuck said:


> Oh - were you lost in the DirecTV forum when you made this post?
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1214347&postcount=31


I never said I didn't post in the DirecTV forum.

'Course if you're going to stalk my posts and try to catch me in something... I wish you'd also dig up my various posts where I question Dish and comment negatively about them. I am sure you will find me saying more bad things about Dish than I've said about DirecTV.

As for the specific link above.. I still think it would be funny if Dish made DirecTV look silly just as DirecTV has made Dish look silly in the past when mocking the Dish ads about "Better TV for all".


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

HDMe said:


> People also shoot people every day, but it doesn't make me feel like I need to go do it.
> 
> I see Dish people in DirecTV forums too... and I don't understand that either.
> 
> ...


The thread was about DIRECT 4TH WAVE...and the question was what do we think of it...

Well how about the fact that there are also E* customers that are pissed off?

James you sound like E* customer support...."oh well we could give a crap iof you leave...someone else will come along"....again...GREAT CUSTOMER SERVICE! Sure it was easy to do that because D* had to play catch up...now it looks like E* needs to play catch up...but we don't know...cuz charlie don't seem to care enough let us know anything...so if thats the continued attitude...i guarantee E* will be losing a lot more than a few customers...it will get old real quick.


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## richiephx (Jan 19, 2006)

I'm happy and satisfied and have more than enough on E* to keep me happy. Unfortunately, there's nothing on right now that I want to watch.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

texaswolf, I don't speak for E* ... I'm just another guy on the internet with an opinion.


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## richiephx (Jan 19, 2006)

HDMe said:


> People also shoot people every day, but it doesn't make me feel like I need to go do it.
> 
> I see Dish people in DirecTV forums too... and I don't understand that either.
> 
> ...


There is absolutely nothing wrong with people entering any forum to get information. It's unfortunate that some people make ridiculous or incorrect statements and people try to clarify or question to make the information more meaningful. Seems ok to me. I have an E ticket which allows me to ride all the rides.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

James Long said:


> texaswolf, I don't speak for E* ... I'm just another guy on the internet with an opinion.


i understand..and i'm just another disgruntled E* customer...but for those of you that don't find it a big deal that E* doesn't carry SCI FI HD, or FX HD, ect. ect. ect.....it is a big deal to the (i"m sure) millions of E* customers that do like those channels...especially since other people are enjoying favorite shows in HD, and they can not. I say millions.....guessing....since shows like BSG, Stargate, Nip Tuck, Rescue Me are on those channels and highly acclaimed and watched shows.....and only on D*...those shows are in HD


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Alas, this thread has strayed too far off topic and too unlikely to return. So I have closed it.

My only editorial: DIRECTV and Dish network are both good companies, both will likely survive, we all benefit from their efforts to bring more HD into our homes.

Cheers,
Tom


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