# 921 Owners Roll Call



## Mark Lamutt

For those of you who are planning on purchasing a 921, please post in this thread when you actually have one in hand, and your impressions of the receiver.

As you all know, I have one. And despite some of its problems, I love it...so much that eventually when they are more available I'm going to be selling my 6000, 2 508s and my 501 to get another one.

Who else has one in hand? (Yes Frank - please add your name to this thread!)


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## Guest

great unit finally pickedit up on tue. installation was a peice of cake. PQ is incredible on hd channels. ota when they are working look great. waiting for new software, to fix the known bug. hopefully by first week of new year. Otherwise it is pretty stable. it was worth te wait .


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## Scott Greczkowski

I got mine.  Only had it running for a few hours.

I hope the guide fills up, so far an hour in the future is all NO INFORMATION.


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## Roger

So you got it activated? Get out the popcorn.


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## BobMurdoch

I know Claude Greiner got one. My supplier just told me that his region's units that were supposed to be available today just got diverted to another part of the country. He is supposed to get another batch next week. Grrr. He says I am still getting his first available unit, but I will post when it is in my hands.

C'mon guys!.. what is the holdup? I thought these were sitting on palettes ready to go.....


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## Scott Greczkowski

I was just told by someone at Dish that only 22 921's were made available so far.... Yes you read that correctly 22!

Talk about a limited rollout!


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## BobMurdoch

Scott, what is the holdup? Did they give ANY indication as to why they are trickling these out so slow (first we heard 200, then 1000, now 22)?


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## scottchez

Only 22

This sounds like an amount you would send out for a Public Beta program.

It does not sound like the 921 is released yet.

The Direct TV HDTV Tivo had 100 release for there Public Beta in November. You had to sign up and qualify for it.

It almost sounds like Direct TV and Dish are going to release to the masses at the same time. Both are in Betas right now. Both are in peoples homes. Both do have some bugs.

The Jan 8th CES should be interesting. . .


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## Frank Z

I posted my brief review here.
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=21669


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## John Corn

I got my UPS tracking no., my 921 should arrive Wednesday.


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## b5lurker

I too have received confirmation that my receiver will arrive on Wednesday before noon! New Years Eve day will be especially fun!

Steve


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## DonLandis

Just curious- what dealer did you guys who received tracking numbers from buy from- local, DishDepot, or other online? 

I was in at my local dealer today who just received a huge shipment of dish receivers, no 921's but I saw some 510's, 811's (surprise!) and one 522 on the skid. We checked again and the distributor still has no 921 to ship to him. I suspect I will be on the list when the masses are released sometime in end of January... My prediction.


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## SParker

I plan on getting one but will probably wait until I see if the price comes down.


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## John Corn

Don, I stumbled across it over at Satelliteguys, Justin from Mainstreet Communications made a post in the classifieds and I responded. He only made it sound like he only could get the 1 921 at the moment.

http://www.checkyes.dishontheweb.com/


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## b5lurker

DonLandis said:


> Just curious- what dealer did you guys who received tracking numbers from buy from- local, DishDepot, or other online?


I am getting mine through the auction that was posted on eBay this weekend. I paid a premium for it, but I have been waiting for long enough!

Steve


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## DonLandis

Interesting! Please post your receiving experiences when they happen. Hope you get them as promised. 

Today, I put in my "preorder" for an HDTIVO with my dealer. Should be fun having both, plus a second receiver for both services with the 169Time firewire as backup.


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## MattG

Just got a call from Dave at VSSLL that they got their order in from JVC at Atlanta and I'll have my 921 on Friday. He also said they are getting more units in soon.


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## SParker

does VSSLL not accept credit cards period or just not on the 921?


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## jcord51

MATTG, I spoke to Tracy yesterday, but I forgot to get a tracking number and it's being shipped ground via UPS, it could take until Monday...I live in New York.


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## MattG

Hi JCord,

I talked to Dave at VSSLL yesterday and I told him to overnight it and C.O.D. the shipping so that I would get it Friday.


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## BobMurdoch

My source has confirmed that he will be getting it Friday and will ship it out via FedEx either Friday or Saturday. I should have it Monday at the latest.


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## Jim Parker

I have one sitting in my truck. One of the local dealers got 4 in this morning, and I got the last one. I know what I'm going to be doing on New Years Day.


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## tahoerob

I GOT MINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! @245pm EST
However, I cannot set it up until after the kids goto bed at 8pm!
Oh, the pain of waiting a few more hours......


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## b5lurker

Airborne just dropped mine off as well about 30 minutes ago! In the process of downloading the update!

Can't wait to start playing with all of the features tonight!

For those doubting the 921's on ebay posted by worldfone, he does have them in stock, you will pay a premium but you WILL have one. I added $60 to the final price so that he would ship next day and he was more then willing.

Steve


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## wcswett

I have had a 921 on pre-order with Dish Depot since February. Has anyone heard from Mark about when they will be able to ship? He told me a couple of weeks ago that I was in the top 20, but that isn't too encouraging considering how they're trickling out of the warehouse. My local dealer (Rat Shack) is going down to Atlanta on Friday and will try to get one for me when he picks up other receivers. I can't remember if DD charged me a $50 deposit or not, considering it was nearly a year ago that I ordered.

--- WCS


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## John Corn

Got mine today around noon.


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## Throwbot

wcswett said:


> I have had a 921 on pre-order with Dish Depot since February. Has anyone heard from Mark about when they will be able to ship? He told me a couple of weeks ago that I was in the top 20, but that isn't too encouraging considering how they're trickling out of the warehouse. My local dealer (Rat Shack) is going down to Atlanta on Friday and will try to get one for me when he picks up other receivers. I can't remember if DD charged me a $50 deposit or not, considering it was nearly a year ago that I ordered.
> 
> --- WCS


I also have a $50.0 deposit for one at Dish Depot , Mark Emailed me today, and said he should have an update tomorrow, wait and see I guess.


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## Rodney

Just received the JVC version of the DVR921 from VSSLL Communications. I must have called at just the right time. Ordered on Wednesday and arrived on Friday.


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## wcswett

Throwbot said:


> I also have a $50.0 deposit for one at Dish Depot , Mark Emailed me today, and said he should have an update tomorrow, wait and see I guess.


I wish Mark would send out more email updates and let us know what's going on.

--- WCS


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## dmodemd

When you don't have any good news its best to keep quiet


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## SJ HART

Mark must be trying to get a semi truck full of these. Besides the original 100 preorders, he likely has had MANY more orders since! Hope he hurrys. SJ


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## kstevens

Just put in an order at dish depot, can't believe I haven't gotten it yet :lol: 



Ken


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## peterd

Well, I didn't post before it arrived 'cause I didn't want to jinx it. Picked up one that was sold on the Sat Guys classifieds.

Here's the short, bleary-eyed version:

Arrived at dinnertime... Domestic tranquility dictated that I pause (the setup, not the PVR  ) after opening the box.

By about 8PM, I was just getting everything wired. Had forgotten that I was using RGB from my 6000, so I had to rig up another input for component. Will have to order a DVI-I -> RGB adapter.

Got it activated around 8:15. Added as additional receiver. Glad I kept the 6000 active, 'cause it's obvious to me that I'll still need it!

Took quite a while to force it to see my local OTA channels consistently (1 scan, then many times around the individual "Add DTV" whenever it lost all OTA).

After another call to Dish, got CBS-HD turned on @ 148. Definitely necessary since there's guide info for it (no info for my local CBS) and it is more stable than OTA.

I've hit lots of bugs, and managed to cause it to spontaneously reboot 2 or 3 times.

Now have lots of timers set up. We'll see how well it handles them!
That's it for now. Will post observations on the forum tomorrow.


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## Mark Lamutt

Peter - please post your bug reports in the 921 forum as you run into the bugs.


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## peterd

Mark Lamutt said:


> Peter - please post your bug reports in the 921 forum as you run into the bugs.


Mark -

I will. I have not posted any yet because I will only post a bug when I can clearly describe & reproduce the problem. I must confess that my 1st evening with the 921 was about covering as much ground as possible as fast as possible. I will have more opportunity to be methodical as time goes on.


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## Mark Lamutt

Know what you mean. That's the way I was the first night I played with it - started around 9pm, and the next thing I know it's about 4:30am...


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## Jerry G

And another 921 owner chimes in. Received my unit this morning. So far, so good (other than the known bugs). I think this will be a terrific PVR once the major issues are resolved. That verrrrrrry wide stretch mode needs to be severly tamed so that it matches the stretch seen on the 811 and 6000.


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## tahoerob

Jerry G said:


> And another 921 owner chimes in. Received my unit this morning. So far, so good (other than the known bugs). I think this will be a terrific PVR once the major issues are resolved. That verrrrrrry wide stretch mode needs to be severly tamed so that it matches the stretch seen on the 811 and 6000.


I found the stretch & gray bar modes useless.
I have my 921 setup as 1080i & 16*9 for display. I tried other combos of settings & did not find much difference with my Sony LCD RPTV. So I decided to keep it simple (esp. for wife!). I now do not mind the SD being in 4*3 format.
However the zoom mode is very useful when SD channel has a LB show or movie. In the display setup above, these LB shows end up with top & side boxing. When the aspect is changed to Zoom, it will actually fill in the 16*9 screen quite nicely.


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## Richard Chalk

I received mine from VSSLL on Friday, Jan 2. Downloaded the update fine, then had some trouble getting the CheckSwitch to work correctly. I had disconnected the cables while powered. A full reboot fixed this. Then I couldn't get any picture on local DTV Channels. Another cold boot!! Working fine now, but still locks up if the DTV off-air signal is too marginal, and requires a reboot to fix. Hopefully this will be resolved soon...

Love the HD pictures, and most features. I do have a feature request or two that I will post in the proper place.

Richard


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## tahoerob

Richard Chalk said:


> I received mine from VSSLL on Friday, Jan 2. Downloaded the update fine, then had some trouble getting the CheckSwitch to work correctly. I had disconnected the cables while powered. A full reboot fixed this. Then I couldn't get any picture on local DTV Channels. Another cold boot!! Working fine now, but still locks up if the DTV off-air signal is too marginal, and requires a reboot to fix. Hopefully this will be resolved soon...
> 
> Love the HD pictures, and most features. I do have a feature request or two that I will post in the proper place.
> 
> Richard


The OTA issue is a known bug that definitely requires rebooting. I find the smart card In & out the easiest.


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## Guest

tahoerob said:


> The OTA issue is a known bug that definitely requires rebooting. I find the smart card In & out the easiest.


I walked into my local retailer on 12-27-03 and paid MSRP, got it 12-30-03. Shoulda' got a lottery ticket as well by the sound of it. Found this site after messing with the OTA for 3 days, much time with Dish tech support and almost killing myself by sliding off the mossy roof repositioning my antenna from inside the attic to an outside position on the roof. Turns out it probably would have been fine where it was  it was great there for the 6000. Great site. The 921 has GREAT potential 

5150


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## MM-etech

I've got mine from vssll.com (12/30/03). Lots of major bugs, but once bugs are fixed, great receiver and I may buy another one.


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## cnacht

I received my 921 on Jan 2nd from my local dealer. So far I haven't experienced any bugs. I am not using the OTA though. The stretch mode has been overstretched and discretes aren't supported yet would be my only complaints, but I waited this long so I guess I can wait for the fix. The up converting of SD programming makes SD programming look incredible.
Later,
Chad


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## tm22721

DishDepot shipped mine out today via UPS blue (two day shipping).


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## Bogney

tm22721 said:


> DishDepot shipped mine out today via UPS blue (two day shipping).


I am supposedly in the top 10 on Dish Depot's preorder list. Did they check with you first before they shipped it?


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## tm22721

Bogney said:


> I am supposedly in the top 10 on Dish Depot's preorder list. Did they check with you first before they shipped it?


I pre-ordered mine in the first minute of the first day of online pre-ordering back on February 15th. It seems like an eternity.

When did you order yours ?


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## Bogney

tm22721 said:


> When did you order yours ?


My confirmation Email from Dish Depot is dated:
2/15/03 10:45:12 AM Eastern Standard Time


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## tm22721

Bogney said:


> My confirmation Email from Dish Depot is dated:
> 2/15/03 10:45:12 AM Eastern Standard Time


My confirmation email arrived at 9:24 AM on 2/15/03.

They did not check with me first before shipping it out. Probably because I had recently contacted them several times so they knew I was still interested even after ten (!) months of delay.


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## tnsprin

Darn I am 2/18.

Mark responded that I am in the first 50. He thinks soon, put will not but a date on it yet.


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## kelliot

Cr*p, I ordered on 2/28, I may get mine by next Xmas. What good is it to preorder? Anyone willing to post an order number?


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## wcswett

Bogney said:


> I am supposedly in the top 10 on Dish Depot's preorder list. Did they check with you first before they shipped it?


I'm in the top 20 of Dish Depot's preorder list, so it's nice to know that they're starting to ship.

--- WCS


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## tahoerob

we should rename this thread:
"those who ordered from Dish Depot in Feb."


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## Mike Russell

I ordered mine on 2/27 and at the time I figured I was 60 something on the list. It's just a guess, but I sure hope I get it this month.


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## markjl

I hounded my local dealer for a couple of months about getting a 921. Last I knew, he didn't think he could get one for awhile. He called yesterday to say he had a 921 with my name on it. Not bad for the middle of Iowa. 

I hooked it up last night and barely had time to mess with it. So far the HD satellite stations look and record fine (I would say better than the 6000 picture quality). The local digital stations are a different story. I was able to get two of them into the guide, but ran into terrible pixilation problems when I tried to watch them. They came in at over 100 on the strength meter and worked fine with my 6000 receiver. I'll post results in the appropriate thread when I have time to play. After reading this forum it looks like I need to do the ole smart card reboot and try again.


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## BobMurdoch

I just got confirmation from my dealer (I have the fedex tracking number) that mine will be delivered Thursday and I will have it for the weekend. Check my new label under my name for my new gig. (He puts on Crash helmet)


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## John Corn

:lol:


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## mofiz

Just got mine today, thanks to Steve at Digital Sattelite Solutions......u came through buddy.


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## jcord51

I finally got mine yesterday and stated to play around with some of the settings. The weird thing is that I managed to knock off the remote that came with the 921 (it doesn't work). But the remotes I have with my old 508 work great in IR mode. I have three of these so I'm a little afraid to get the original 921 remote to work and lose the 508's. But it does bother me that the 921 remote is not working. I have the antenna connected and the remote indicates that it is set to remote control #1 which is the same as what is being displayed on my receiver set-up.


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## leemathre

I finally found a local retailer who sold me a 921. This company has offices in Utah, Nevada, and California. Dish allowed him to order one unit. I just got lucky and called him at the right time and grabbed his one receiver. He will have it on Friday and I will get it next week (he will get it in his Utah office and send it to me in Las Vegas). Can't wait!!


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## BobMurdoch

jcord51 said:


> I finally got mine yesterday and stated to play around with some of the settings. The weird thing is that I managed to knock off the remote that came with the 921 (it doesn't work). But the remotes I have with my old 508 work great in IR mode. I have three of these so I'm a little afraid to get the original 921 remote to work and lose the 508's. But it does bother me that the 921 remote is not working. I have the antenna connected and the remote indicates that it is set to remote control #1 which is the same as what is being displayed on my receiver set-up.


Maybe you got a dud remote. Time to call E* for a replacement......


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## tahoerob

jcord51 said:


> I finally got mine yesterday and stated to play around with some of the settings. The weird thing is that I managed to knock off the remote that came with the 921 (it doesn't work). But the remotes I have with my old 508 work great in IR mode. I have three of these so I'm a little afraid to get the original 921 remote to work and lose the 508's. But it does bother me that the 921 remote is not working. I have the antenna connected and the remote indicates that it is set to remote control #1 which is the same as what is being displayed on my receiver set-up.


my remote did not work initially until AFTER, the long 45-minute initial software update.


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## BobMurdoch

Okaaayyyy. Then how do we tell it to do the update. Do I need my 721 remote? (My 921 comes tomorrow)

Let me rephrase....

My 921 comes tomorrow. I will be swapping the 921 for my 721 so no new wiring is needed and it will be a straight receiver swap. I don't have an OTA antenna installed yet, but from the sound of the OTA bug, I don't need this right away anyway as that function is still dicey. What do I need to do after I unpack it?

I have the DVI cord for Connection to my Sony KP57WV600 which has a DVI-D connection. I have a DVI-D Monster Cable ready to go.

Since the remote didn't work until AFTER the download, what do I need to do to get started.....


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## Mark Lamutt

My remote worked just fine "out of the box" before I took the initial download. Bob, just plug it in and let it go. You'll get it authorized, and then the download will happen automatically.


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## BobMurdoch

Thanks, Mark. After the SW64 bypass surgery that my Dishplayer required (It could only go to the 119 feed for the initial download) at installation, everything else will seem simple.


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## tahoerob

BobMurdoch said:


> Okaaayyyy. Then how do we tell it to do the update. Do I need my 721 remote? (My 921 comes tomorrow)
> 
> Let me rephrase....
> 
> My 921 comes tomorrow. I will be swapping the 921 for my 721 so no new wiring is needed and it will be a straight receiver swap. I don't have an OTA antenna installed yet, but from the sound of the OTA bug, I don't need this right away anyway as that function is still dicey. What do I need to do after I unpack it?
> 
> I have the DVI cord for Connection to my Sony KP57WV600 which has a DVI-D connection. I have a DVI-D Monster Cable ready to go.
> 
> Since the remote didn't work until AFTER the download, what do I need to do to get started.....


After you connect lines & turn power on, you will get a circle splash screen with Dish & HDTV written in it. THen as it initial boots, it should try to acquire sat. This boot process (as well as reboot, which I know well) can take ~5 min. I then got a limited menu. I did a switch check. THen I had only channel 101. I then called CSR to activate.
What you may want to do is wait to see if it automatically starts software update or see if you can access it via menu before calling CSR. THE software update literally takes ~45 minutes (ouch). If you call CSR in the beginning, they will try to stay on the line with you (boring!). THe remote did not seem to work until AFTER the update. So keep the 721 or 500 series remote available (the 6000 one works too) if it is set to remote address #1 (default).
Also, the guide info will take hours to catch up.


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## angiodan

Mark at DD tells me I should be able to pick mine up on Friday. It was supposed to be today, but none were shipped to him from the distributor on Mon. and Tues. like they were supposed to. 


Keeping my fingers crossed!!


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## mofiz

so far having problem with OTA channels able to lock in but no pictures....sux and frustrated.


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## tm22721

Got mine yesterday and up and running last night after about two hours of unpacking, and setup.

There are several phases after turning on the power before you can watch anything. The longest is getting the guide. The software update took the least amount of time. The total sequence was about an hour from power up to first use of the remote control.

No new bugs to report but there was one annoyance - the DVI analog output stays electrically active even in SD mode which prevents my video scalar from switching to its non-HD inputs (S or component) when the 921 is in SD mode. Oh well I guess I'll insert a VGA switch to disable the DVI output when in SD mode (with the side benefit of allowing my wife to switch to her computer for a slide show).


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## srrobinson2

My retailer called me yesterday and scheduled installation for the SuperDish a new 510 and the 921 for 9AM Saturday morning!!! Finally!!


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## pculley

I got mine, thanks to a local retailer that I had been bugging. I am located in the Houston area.

I really hope that they uplink the atsc tuner bug fix soon...


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## Guest

what retailer in houston?


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## BobMurdoch

Mine's here! 

Now I have to wait 5 hours until I get off from work 

But there WILL be HD on my TV tonight!

Thanks again to Richard King for getting me one quicker than I could anywhere else.....


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## 928gt

Mine's here TOO !!!  

Fired up, check switch OK (both tuners) HD demo channel looks great via DVI on the plasma !!! Downloading new software as I type, called the good folks at Dish and they have already fired it up for me !! 

Will post progress as I get to play more. 

Kudos to Richard at New Mexico Satellite for selling me his second 921 arrival at normal price and timely shipping !!! 

Dave


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## Richard King

Enjoy Bob.... At least you have seen a picture of the box for yours as you waited.  Now I am still awaiting my second shipment of two receivers (sold). Then my third shipment. (available)


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## fjerina

928gt, glad you got yours. What is New Mexico Satellite? I live hear in Albuquerque and never heard of them?


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## 928gt

> 928gt, glad you got yours. What is New Mexico Satellite? I live hear in Albuquerque and never heard of them?


They are in Edgewood, NM. VERY nice and honest Dish Dealer to work with. Their info is also on Dish Networks website (search for NM dealers).

Dave


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## fjerina

928gt, I just spoke with Richard and he is busy trying to get more units in from the Denver or Dallas locations. He may get some in this Monday. Have to wait and see. I have a couple of questions for you on your unit. If you have some time send me an email at [email protected]. Thanks.


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## ibglowin

Just heard from Mark at Dish Depot. Mine is going out tomorrow AM with a free overnight shipping upgrade and Saturday delivery. I should be time shifting HD by Saturday afternoon!

Thanks Mark!


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## sleepy hollow

Just an FYI, I spoke to a Dish CSR yesterday morning and pointed her to the press release about the $999 HDTV and the $600 921 upgrade, and she at first was clueless, but then indicated an email had just come to her supervisor, went off to chat with the supervisor and came back to tell me that within a couple of days there would be details on the 921 upgrade offer. 

For what it's worth. I would speculate Monday they may be announcing direct sales from Dish of the 921. I happen to own the exact HDTV monitor they are packaging with the $999 system (RCA, Thomson Scenium 34" CRT), so I will be angling for the upgrade. We'll see what happens. At worst I can have a free 811 it appears.


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## BobMurdoch

My 921 is now hooked up and working.

My old setup.... A 721 with analog composite out going to a VCR, an S Video connection to my TV directly, and an optical connect to my A/V Receiver. Easy swap out as I only added the 6' Component Video cable E* supplied as well as a Monster Video 2 Meter DVI-D cable I got from Best Buy (length was a hair short but it was the longest they had in stock. Uh, it was the ONLY DVI cable they had in stock.... I made the lengths work, I just don't have a lot of room to pull the receiver forward). I have only had the 721 and never had a 6000 so I have no antenna for now and I am located 45 miles from New York City and about 50 miles from Philadelphia in Coastal Central New Jersey. 

Hooked everything up. The commemorative Franklin Mint DISH HD Silver Dollar logo pops up on the screen. It stays there for a few minutes and then an error message pops up that says that this unit has not yet been authorized. Well, duh, I KNEW that.

I click OK and go to the point dish screen. I run the switch check test and it finds my two SW64s. I click OK and the remote control help channel comes on. I call E* to activate and they ask for the receiver an smart card IDs. She asks for the software version and I give it to her. It is the factory default software so she says I need the software update. OK. She tells me to click on the software update selection on the menu (this won't work I'm thinking......) No Upgrade available. I kep getting the sluggish remote response others have mentioned atthis point. She get's an advanced tech who tells me turn off the unit and the download will happen. I press the power button and wait and after a minute the power light starts blinking. I ask her to activate the HD pak while I have her on the line and then I let her go. I watch the supplemental features of the Pirates of the Caribbean DVD for 45 minutes to kill time, and then the light stops blinking.

I go to the guide and it doesn't have any channels yet. Uh oh. Turns out to be a false alarm as they pop up in about 5 minutes. The guide looks identical to a 721 except they use a smaller font for the channel IDs and the info descriptions in the upper left hand corner. I go straight to the Demo channel and see Laurie Farkas in a North Carolina Museum. 

OK, the 6000 and 811 former owners may be a little jaded but I have never seen HD content on my TV other than some XBox content that never really reached the level of detail that these HD receivers are capable of.

My heart skips a beat when I see the Hummingbird flapping his wings, and the astronauts practicing spacewalking techniques underwater as the clear blue water ripples overhead. I marvel at the TOTAL lack of digital artifacts I can see (on the demo channel at least so far). After about 10 minutes it starts to loop, so I go to Discovery HD. The Crocodile Hunter is swimming with some whales. Clear blue water shimmers and the whales swims by the camera. At this point on an SD channel the coverage of 80% of the screen with the water would cause tons of digital artifacts as the compression couldn't keep up. NONE of that here. Wow. I check out the other HD channels, but they are all showing film based content which looks good, but is not as sharp as the video content, but still gorgeous. 

Then I go to HBO-HD and Inside the NFL is on. I watch the end of the Packers highlights and the film is clear. There are vertical letterbox bars to the left and right of the image (no stretching) and then they go back to the studio. I can now SEE the wrinkles in Costas' face (hmm. no wonder a lot of the actors hate HD) AND I can see the makeup they have plastered on his face. I go looking for CBS-HD as I am in the New York DMA. Uh. I can't find it. I call E* and they tell me that they have to check to see if I qualify. Yeah, OK. -Elevator Music plays-. After 5 minutes she comes back and says that they have activated it. 2 Minutes later it comes up. One of the CSI shows is on. Once again, film based content looks good, with none of the artifacts but film based HD doesn't pop off the screen to me as much as the video content. 

One note for Sony users. I switched to Vivid for the setup and I get NONE of the color bleeding that I get from the analog channels. You may want to think about switching away from Standard or Pro for HD content only.

I go to ESPN-HD and Golf is on. They REALLY stretch the image to fill the screen as Tiger looks like he's packed on a few pounds. The picture looks OK, but I'm sure it's upconverted so I'll check SportsCenter later.

I play with the recording features. I also set a timer to fire. I pad the beginning by five minutes. I start playing around with commercial skip and FF/Rev buttons. Just then I guess the timer was about to fire as the receiver locked up and I got a transparent X in the middle of the screen. Spontaneous Reboot. (I adjust my crash helmet). Commemorative Silver Dish HDTV Dollar pops up on screen. Reboots after about 4 minutes. Record light goes on. I turn to Discovery HD and a program about Jaguars is on. Wow. Gorgeous picture of the Jungle. Looks like a Jaguar is outside my window the picture is so sharp. After a few hours of HD bliss, I turn off the receiver and go to bed. I wake up this morning and the 9 day guide has been loaded.

OK, I got long winded there. A couple caveats for those first firing up your receivers. The Advanced CSR wanted me to have let the software download happen BEFORE I did any switch checks, but I had jumped the gun, and of course the manual made no mention of any unusual startup rituals. I did the switch check first, then got activated, and then turned off and the software download went fine. I had 125 reading on 119, a 122 on 110, and an 89 on 61.5 so I had clear skies for the download signal. The remote will be sluggish as the prerelease software is sluggish. However, once it is all done, the guide data FLIES when using the direction keys or the page up/down buttons. The guide scrolls 50-100% faster than the 721 and a 150% faster than my 510. I programmed a few favorites list including an HD only collection. Set the Display to 1080i and 4:3 #2. I have a 16:9 tv, but the 16:9 aspect ratio is off as it zooms into the picture too far and chops off 10% of the area on EACH side. Ugh. Discover HD logo chopped in half (My TV is set to Full, BTW on DVI and cannot be changed from the Sony remote). I set the channels and guide date to ascending (personal preference). Activated Caller ID popups. Once again, as I don't have an antenna yet, I didn't mess with the Local Channels. Just as well thanks to the OTA bug, for now. I didn't get a chance to play with the PIP, but I hear there are some issues as well with that function, but I'll play with it during football this weekend.

Final Grades....

Concept: A+
Software: Incomplete
Picture: A (Don't forget to play with your TV's settings to get the color temperature and other settings to your preference. Don't be afraid of Vivid. The colors don't bleed like they used to. I don't know if this is due to compression, the DVI cable, receiver, or my TV, but it looks good.
Sound: A- HD Net, HD Movies, and SHO-HD had Dolby Digital with discrete signals being sent to my surrounds. HBO-HD (Inside the NFL was on) and Discovery HD did not, and my default DSP mode of ALL CHannel Stereo created my own faux surround soundfield.
Features: B Greyed out Internet selection still taunts us on the menu. Where is the keyboard? Otherwise, the 921 is identical to a 721 plus the OTA HD tuner, the HD capability, and the bigger hard drive (BTW, the guide tells you how many hours of SD recording AND HD recording are possible with the balance of the hard drive.


Overall Impression: A

If you have never had HD on your TV before it will be a revelation. If you also never had a PVR before it will be the biggest change in your TV viewing experience since your first VCR. Rewinding Discovery HD to the beginning of a whales segment and saving it for my marine obsessed children was a wonderful new capability. Be patient with the bug hunt E* is working on, they have a winner here. 

Once again, kudos to Richard King at American Home Theatre in Vero Beach, FL for finding me a 921 quick.

Now, I'm off to start researching rooftop antennas. (Already imagining heated discussion with spouse,... "Honey, I know it's ugly, but.... you'll finally be able to watch your Eagles games again!")


----------



## Throwbot

BobMurdoch said:


> My 921 is now hooked up and working.
> 
> My old setup.... A 721 with analog composite out going to a VCR, an S Video connection to my TV directly, and an optical connect to my A/V Receiver. Easy swap out as I only added the 6' Component Video cable E* supplied as well as a Monster Video 2 Meter DVI-D cable I got from Best Buy (length was a hair short but it was the longest they had in stock. Uh, it was the ONLY DVI cable they had in stock.... I made the lengths work, I just don't have a lot of room to pull the receiver forward). I have only had the 721 and never had a 6000 so I have no antenna for now and I am located 45 miles from New York City and about 50 miles from Philadelphia in Coastal Central New Jersey.
> 
> Hooked everything up. The commemorative Franklin Mint DISH HD Silver Dollar logo pops up on the screen. It stays there for a few minutes and then an error message pops up that says that this unit has not yet been authorized. Well, duh, I KNEW that.
> 
> I click OK and go to the point dish screen. I run the switch check test and it finds my two SW64s. I click OK and the remote control help channel comes on. I call E* to activate and they ask for the receiver an smart card IDs. She asks for the software version and I give it to her. It is the factory default software so she says I need the software update. OK. She tells me to click on the software update selection on the menu (this won't work I'm thinking......) No Upgrade available. I kep getting the sluggish remote response others have mentioned atthis point. She get's an advanced tech who tells me turn off the unit and the download will happen. I press the power button and wait and after a minute the power light starts blinking. I ask her to activate the HD pak while I have her on the line and then I let her go. I watch the supplemental features of the Pirates of the Caribbean DVD for 45 minutes to kill time, and then the light stops blinking.
> 
> I go to the guide and it doesn't have any channels yet. Uh oh. Turns out to be a false alarm as they pop up in about 5 minutes. The guide looks identical to a 721 except they use a smaller font for the channel IDs and the info descriptions in the upper left hand corner. I go straight to the Demo channel and see Laurie Farkas in a North Carolina Museum.
> 
> OK, the 6000 and 811 former owners may be a little jaded but I have never seen HD content on my TV other than some XBox content that never really reached the level of detail that these HD receivers are capable of.
> 
> My heart skips a beat when I see the Hummingbird flapping his wings, and the astronauts practicing spacewalking techniques underwater as the clear blue water ripples overhead. I marvel at the TOTAL lack of digital artifacts I can see (on the demo channel at least so far). After about 10 minutes it starts to loop, so I go to Discovery HD. The Crocodile Hunter is swimming with some whales. Clear blue water shimmers and the whales swims by the camera. At this point on an SD channel the coverage of 80% of the screen with the water would cause tons of digital artifacts as the compression couldn't keep up. NONE of that here. Wow. I check out the other HD channels, but they are all showing film based content which looks good, but is not as sharp as the video content, but still gorgeous.
> 
> Then I go to HBO-HD and Inside the NFL is on. I watch the end of the Packers highlights and the film is clear. There are vertical letterbox bars to the left and right of the image (no stretching) and then they go back to the studio. I can now SEE the wrinkles in Costas' face (hmm. no wonder a lot of the actors hate HD) AND I can see the makeup they have plastered on his face. I go looking for CBS-HD as I am in the New York DMA. Uh. I can't find it. I call E* and they tell me that they have to check to see if I qualify. Yeah, OK. -Elevator Music plays-. After 5 minutes she comes back and says that they have activated it. 2 Minutes later it comes up. One of the CSI shows is on. Once again, film based content looks good, with none of the artifacts but film based HD doesn't pop off the screen to me as much as the video content.
> 
> One note for Sony users. I switched to Vivid for the setup and I get NONE of the color bleeding that I get from the analog channels. You may want to think about switching away from Standard or Pro for HD content only.
> 
> I go to ESPN-HD and Golf is on. They REALLY stretch the image to fill the screen as Tiger looks like he's packed on a few pounds. The picture looks OK, but I'm sure it's upconverted so I'll check SportsCenter later.
> 
> I play with the recording features. I also set a timer to fire. I pad the beginning by five minutes. I start playing around with commercial skip and FF/Rev buttons. Just then I guess the timer was about to fire as the receiver locked up and I got a transparent X in the middle of the screen. Spontaneous Reboot. (I adjust my crash helmet). Commemorative Silver Dish HDTV Dollar pops up on screen. Reboots after about 4 minutes. Record light goes on. I turn to Discovery HD and a program about Jaguars is on. Wow. Gorgeous picture of the Jungle. Looks like a Jaguar is outside my window the picture is so sharp. After a few hours of HD bliss, I turn off the receiver and go to bed. I wake up this morning and the 9 day guide has been loaded.
> 
> OK, I got long winded there. A couple caveats for those first firing up your receivers. The Advanced CSR wanted me to have let the software download happen BEFORE I did any switch checks, but I had jumped the gun, and of course the manual made no mention of any unusual startup rituals. I did the switch check first, then got activated, and then turned off and the software download went fine. I had 125 reading on 119, a 122 on 110, and an 89 on 61.5 so I had clear skies for the download signal. The remote will be sluggish as the prerelease software is sluggish. However, once it is all done, the guide data FLIES when using the direction keys or the page up/down buttons. The guide scrolls 50-100% faster than the 721 and a 150% faster than my 510. I programmed a few favorites list including an HD only collection. Set the Display to 1080i and 4:3 #2. I have a 16:9 tv, but the 16:9 aspect ratio is off as it zooms into the picture too far and chops off 10% of the area on EACH side. Ugh. Discover HD logo chopped in half (My TV is set to Full, BTW on DVI and cannot be changed from the Sony remote). I set the channels and guide date to ascending (personal preference). Activated Caller ID popups. Once again, as I don't have an antenna yet, I didn't mess with the Local Channels. Just as well thanks to the OTA bug, for now. I didn't get a chance to play with the PIP, but I hear there are some issues as well with that function, but I'll play with it during football this weekend.
> 
> Final Grades....
> 
> Concept: A+
> Software: Incomplete
> Picture: A (Don't forget to play with your TV's settings to get the color temperature and other settings to your preference. Don't be afraid of Vivid. The colors don't bleed like they used to. I don't know if this is due to compression, the DVI cable, receiver, or my TV, but it looks good.
> Sound: A- HD Net, HD Movies, and SHO-HD had Dolby Digital with discrete signals being sent to my surrounds. HBO-HD (Inside the NFL was on) and Discovery HD did not, and my default DSP mode of ALL CHannel Stereo created my own faux surround soundfield.
> Features: B Greyed out Internet selection still taunts us on the menu. Where is the keyboard? Otherwise, the 921 is identical to a 721 plus the OTA HD tuner, the HD capability, and the bigger hard drive (BTW, the guide tells you how many hours of SD recording AND HD recording are possible with the balance of the hard drive.
> 
> Overall Impression: A
> 
> If you have never had HD on your TV before it will be a revelation. If you also never had a PVR before it will be the biggest change in your TV viewing experience since your first VCR. Rewinding Discovery HD to the beginning of a whales segment and saving it for my marine obsessed children was a wonderful new capability. Be patient with the bug hunt E* is working on, they have a winner here.
> 
> Once again, kudos to Richard King at American Home Theatre in Vero Beach, FL for finding me a 921 quick.
> 
> Now, I'm off to start researching rooftop antennas. (Already imagining heated discussion with spouse,... "Honey, I know it's ugly, but.... you'll finally be able to watch your Eagles games again!")


Bob I switched to Vivid as you suggested, but darn it I'm still green with envy AS I DON'T HAVE ONE YET! Very encouraging review, I look for more as you toy around with it. If your locals transmit UHF the antenna will be somewhat smaller than a VHF/UHF . I mention this because I also have a "I don't know what was wrong with the 16 year old 16" Zenith we had for years",wonderful wife as well. :feelbette


----------



## Throwbot

Crickey, didn't mean to duplicate the whole review.


----------



## laker

sleepy hollow said:


> Just an FYI, I spoke to a Dish CSR yesterday morning and pointed her to the press release about the $999 HDTV and the $600 921 upgrade, and she at first was clueless, but then indicated an email had just come to her supervisor, went off to chat with the supervisor and came back to tell me that within a couple of days there would be details on the 921 upgrade offer.
> 
> For what it's worth. I would speculate Monday they may be announcing direct sales from Dish of the 921. I happen to own the exact HDTV monitor they are packaging with the $999 system (RCA, Thomson Scenium 34" CRT), so I will be angling for the upgrade. We'll see what happens. At worst I can have a free 811 it appears.


The distributor for my local retailer has asked if there are any customers for the 34" RCA monitor/921 HDTV package. So far I'm the only one. Does anyone have any positive or negative comments on the RCA monitor?


----------



## BobMurdoch

Sorry, every now and then my inner novelist comes out and I run on for a bit. (Then again Mark wrote 9 pages worth mine was positively brief.)

One important note....... Make sure that after you first hook it up you let it get the software update first before doing anything else INCLUDING running switch checks. Turn the power off by pressing the power button on the receiver and wait. It will shortly start blinking and take the download. After about 45 minutes it will stop blinking and you can run the check switch and and then call to activate the receiver.

The manual is useless for this initial setup, so be careful......

I don't know what manner of gremlins spring forth if you don't allow the download first. Also, I had run the check switch test and got channel 101. I called in and the CSR gamely tried to help me but she was obviously clueless when it came to 921s and she passed me to an advanced tech who had me reset the software to factory default, reboot the receiver by killing the power to the power strip and then turning it on again. After the Silver Dollar logo goes away, I powered off and the download started.

I think I left that detail out in my long diatribe (ooh, there's a bingo word for Scrabble)


----------



## BobMurdoch

Throwbot said:


> Crickey, didn't mean to duplicate the whole review.


Throwbot, where did you get the Left Handed User version of the 921?

Opus is sitting on a 921 in your avatar where the picture is reversed....... :lol:


----------



## BobMurdoch

Throwbot said:


> If your locals transmit UHF the antenna will be somewhat smaller than a VHF/UHF . I mention this because I also have a "I don't know what was wrong with the 16 year old 16" Zenith we had for years",wonderful wife as well. :feelbette


I have an interesting situation. I am 45 miles from New York and 50 Miles from Philadelphia. I have the New York Locals through E* and I wanted to configure the antenna for reception of the Philly channels which are all UHF based. Just in case, I can't get a decent signal at my distance, I will try for New York. But the terrain seems to favor Philly as the ground slopes down towards the southwest as I can look out my first floor living room window and I am looking at the point of my neighbor's roof across the street. There is a river behind him that is 400 yds. across so I have a clear view of the sky to the southwest towards Philly. The same dynamic works against me if I look to New York as I can stand on my roof and see first floor of my neighbor's house around 100 feet behind me towards the northeast looking at New York. New York has some VHF digital channels as well I believe.

Anyone know what a good antenna setup would entail for my situation (I'm going to assume I'll have better success with the Philly route but some of the stations may be as fas as 60 miles away. Do I have a prayer of pulling in any stations. When I was a kid and lived 1 mile to the north I could only pull in a snowy analog picture pointing it at new york (although I could pull in Philly UHF 29 and UHF 48 with a watcheable picture). Our area had cable in the mid 70's but I tried to pull in 29 to watch Star Blazers when I was 13.


----------



## sleepy hollow

laker said:


> The distributor for my local retailer has asked if there are any customers for the 34" RCA monitor/921 HDTV package. So far I'm the only one. Does anyone have any positive or negative comments on the RCA monitor?


We love it. The colors are superb. SD, itself is a new viewing experience. Have yet to see HD. It has all the connections you could want. Ours has an integrated progressive scan DVD (with optical output) which is very convenient for the rest of the family. Not sure if the Dish version does, but that is the only way this one came. DVDs are truly mesmerizing. Watched Road to Perdition by myself one night with the surround sound cranked up. Very profound.

It is a bit of a pain to navigate and change settings, but I've never seen a user interface I liked on any home electronics device. I can only assume TIVO must be much better at this since it seems to have such a following. Anyway, once you set it, you pretty much leave it alone unless you are one of those neurotic fidgiters. But even I was cured of that after about a month.

I cannot stand projection TVs, and did not want a screen the size of West Virginia. It weighs close to 200 pounds, though, so you need to have a sturdy stand.

All in all, I'd have to say it has been a good value (paid about $1100 in Feb).

Eventually, I would love to get a plasma screen, but they are not proven and way too much money right now.

Looking forward to the 921, despite the problems at the moment. If Dish offers it next week and they offer me a good deal, I'm in. I do not want to pay 1000, but I also want to see HD. Life is tough, isn't it, especially in America?

Nothing against dealers, and I am very handy, so can do the installation myself, but having Dish arrange for the installation and being able to work though them is my preference.

One last thing, I bought the extended 3-yr warranty from Circuit City ($150), which I never buy. This is the absolute first time ever for me, but in this case, I thought it made sense.


----------



## fjerina

Question: if one records some HD programming on the 921 can I take the unit to someone's home and just playback a program, or do you always have to be actively connected to the satellite dishes???


----------



## BobMurdoch

fjerina said:


> Question: if one records some HD programming on the 921 can I take the unit to someone's home and just playback a program, or do you always have to be actively connected to the satellite dishes???


I'm pretty sure it won't work. On a tech chat they talked about disabling the OTA Tuner if a satellite signal is not being received. I'm pretty sure they would do the same with recorded shows, but maybe someone else has a better answer.


----------



## Throwbot

BobMurdoch said:


> Throwbot, where did you get the Left Handed User version of the 921?
> 
> Opus is sitting on a 921 in your avatar where the picture is reversed....... :lol:


Oh, I forgot to mention I'm from England , we drive on the left hand side also. :lol:


----------



## chipwood

Got mine yesterday. Everything working faily well. I was very surprised to try my Pronto TSU-7000 that had been controlling the old 6000 and it worked!!! I had to reduce some of the delays in several macros but so far all commands are working. Now I need to find out why the ProntoPro TSU-6000 is not working on one of my customers Model 811...

I have had some over-the-air problems but surprisingly have yet to re-boot. I have found that by entering the channel number directly (not using the guide), I get good local digital reception. I will play with this some more but I have seen a big difference in over-the-air reception. Sometimes it takes a few seconds to lock in.

I have not tried any recoding yet but will get to that this weekend.

Regards,
Chip


----------



## Throwbot

fjerina said:


> Question: if one records some HD programming on the 921 can I take the unit to someone's home and just playback a program, or do you always have to be actively connected to the satellite dishes???


No, it's too big.


----------



## BobMurdoch

That's what Handtrucks are for.

Or teenagers.

"When I was your age, we had no only black and white TVs...."

"And we had to get UP to change the channel"

"And if we were lucky there was 7 channels to choose from!"

"So shut up and carry the PVR to Uncle Larry's house!"

Hee hee.


----------



## Bogney

BobMurdoch said:


> New York has some VHF digital channels as well I believe.


New York City has only one VHF digital station but it should be gone in a few months. WPIX-DT is on channel 12 at only 125 watts so you would probably not be able to receive them at your distance with the best of antenna setups. WPIX-DT will be going back to channel 33 when the Empire State Building antenna combiner project is completed this year.


----------



## James_Bruce

Had one getting replacement tomorrow


----------



## Jerry G

James_Bruce said:


> Had one getting replacement tomorrow


Can you tell us why, ie what happened to the first one?


----------



## Throwbot

BobMurdoch said:


> That's what Handtrucks are for.
> 
> Or teenagers.
> 
> "When I was your age, we had no only black and white TVs...."
> 
> "And we had to get UP to change the channel"
> 
> "And if we were lucky there was 7 channels to choose from!"
> 
> "So shut up and carry the PVR to Uncle Larry's house!"
> 
> Hee hee.


I could only dream of 7 channels, I grow up on BBC 1 plus ITV, and when I turned 14 years old ....BBC 2 ! Dam if i didn't ejaculate right on the spot.


----------



## mofiz

OTA is very unstable, at night no NBC, in the morning I am getting NBC...sometimes they just come in and out. i dont have any problem getting OTA with my Sony 200, still very frustrated. Now I am not sure if I can watch Todays NFL playoff on this 921 or not......waste of $$$$$$


----------



## mofiz

just figured out a trick about OTA, if i turn off the system and turn back on i get all the OTA...ATLEAST THIS MORNING. few min ago I wasnt getting any...rightnow I am getting NBC,ABC,CBS,FOX,UPN......Yeaaaaaaaaaa.......


----------



## srrobinson2

srrobinson2 said:


> My retailer called me yesterday and scheduled installation for the SuperDish a new 510 and the 921 for 9AM Saturday morning!!! Finally!!


           
I got a call from my retailer who drove to Atlanta yesterday to pick up the 921 that the Echostar regional sales manager had personally held for me and tagged for pickup. Somehow, when the retailer arrived in Atlanta, no one could locate my 921. It had "mysteriously vanished."

This happened after I 'd received personal assurances from the Echostar regional sales manager. I am so upset with E* !!!!!!!

I'd planned on disconnecting Comcast HD and replacing with Dish-HD, but maybe I should do just the opposite!


----------



## Richard King

From what I have heard from my regional manager, Echostar Atlanta has not received any 921's since sometime last week (not this past week), a VERY small shipment. If enough had come in for you to get one from your retailer it would have shipped last week, not this past week. I received my first and only 921 on Tuesday (shipped from Echostar on Friday) and shipped it out that day to a lucky member of this board. Per my regional manager they have received none since and won't commit as to when they will receive another (for my other two sold). The one I received is in my avatar, looking very lonely.


----------



## Throwbot

srrobinson2 said:


> I got a call from my retailer who drove to Atlanta yesterday to pick up the 921 that the Echostar regional sales manager had personally held for me and tagged for pickup. Somehow, when the retailer arrived in Atlanta, no one could locate my 921. It had "mysteriously vanished."
> 
> This happened after I 'd received personal assurances from the Echostar regional sales manager. I am so upset with E* !!!!!!!
> 
> I'd planned on disconnecting Comcast HD and replacing with Dish-HD, but maybe I should do just the opposite!


Think I saw your 921 in the sneaky VSSSSLLL guy's minivan!


----------



## srrobinson2

Richard King said:


> From what I have heard from my regional manager, Echostar Atlanta has not received any 921's since sometime last week (not this past week), a VERY small shipment. If enough had come in for you to get one from your retailer it would have shipped last week, not this past week. I received my first and only 921 on Tuesday (shipped from Echostar on Friday) and shipped it out that day to a lucky member of this board. Per my regional manager they have received none since and won't commit as to when they will receive another (for my other two sold). The one I received is in my avatar, looking very lonely.


--- email #1 received from the regional manager in Atlanta ---

Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 2:11 PM
To: Randy Robinson
Subject: RE: 921 Receiver Question

Randy,

Yes, there is some product, but our supply has been VERY limited. We did get some in today and I am going to contact Earth Satellite and advise them to give you a call, place an order, etc. ASAP. Maybe we can get a receiver up there before the weekend..........

Earth Satellite will be in touch...........

Brian

--- email #2 received from the regional manager in Atlanta ---

Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 9:16 AM
To: Randy Robinson
Subject: RE: 921 Receiver Question

Randy:

I spoke with Earth Satellite this morning. They will be giving you a call today to set up a time.......

Brian


----------



## wcswett

BobMurdoch said:


> I'm pretty sure it won't work. On a tech chat they talked about disabling the OTA Tuner if a satellite signal is not being received. I'm pretty sure they would do the same with recorded shows, but maybe someone else has a better answer.


All of my current DVRs play back with no satellite signal, so I believe the 921 should, too. They disabled the OTA tuner on the 6000/8VSB so people wouldn't buy them just for the OTA (probably the same on 811 and 921).

--- WCS


----------



## wcswett

srrobinson2 said:


> I got a call from my retailer who drove to Atlanta yesterday to pick up the 921 that the Echostar regional sales manager had personally held for me and tagged for pickup. Somehow, when the retailer arrived in Atlanta, no one could locate my 921. It had "mysteriously vanished."


My local retailer drove down to Atlanta on Wednesday this past week and was unable to get even a single 921.

--- WCS


----------



## Richard King

I know how you feel. I was told by my rep that I would have all three that I ordered in time for Christmas. They came in before Christmas and I was told they were there and would be shipping, but, before they were received in the computer in Atlanta they were diverted to another Echostar distribution warehouse. So, obviously I didn't have mine to deliver for Christmas. So far I have received one of the three that I have sold. At this time my rep will make no commitment to future delivery dates.


----------



## Mark_AR

Got my first one Thursday morning. Sold it Friday Morning. Shipped it last night to PA.

Getting my second one Monday. (Keeping it so don't ask)

First impressions:

*NOISY!* (Fan whine is acceptable, but during pauses or quiet scenes it notable.

*Games (Menu 8 ) Interactive*. I would have spent some of the HD space and memory for something better than breakout, math, concentration, solitaire spaced invaders and some goofy African seed game.

And if you are playing a game on an active channel, the sound is distracting and the semi-opaque game screen shows the channel content.

The UHF remote control for the games makes the action games nearly un-playable. Definite use of Keyboard and mouse would be needed for a better experience.

*Bright LED's*: In a darkened home theater environment, the Green, and blue LED's are distracting. (My Hitachi power button is also distracting)

*Text quality on Guides:* ALthough readable, they are typical Lo-resolution somewhat jagged text. I'm knit-picking now, but for a Grand, at least make the Cadillac of DVR's look nice on the screen rather than like a Geo Metro interior.

While I'm on text. What's up with the MUSIC channel screens. Plain moving white text in a light gray box? Even the 522 has a better display of music information for a fraction of the cost. (Yuk factor 10 )

More to come as soon as I get the second one hooked up.


----------



## Ben Welijka

BobMurdoch said:


> Now, I'm off to start researching rooftop antennas. (Already imagining heated discussion with spouse,... "Honey, I know it's ugly, but.... you'll finally be able to watch your Eagles games again!")


Bob,

There is an extensive set of discussions over at the AVS Forum concerning antennas:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/

See the threads "Local HDTV Info and Reception" and "HDTV Hardware".

Also check out the HomeTheaterSpot Forum ("The Antenna Spot" thread) at http://www.hometheaterspot.com for some good info and experiences using different types of antennas.

I'm in Atlanta 30 miles away from the transmitting towers and was influenced by the discussions at AVS to buy the Televes DAT75 from England ($50 + $100 shipping charge). Excellent UHF antenna for my range.

ChannelMaster also makes two excellent UHF antennas for the 30-50 mile range: the 4248 and the 4228 ($60 each). I've tried both and they perform well (slightly less than the Televes). Winegard also makes fine antennas.

Probably the best long-range antennas (and the costliest) are the Blake Aerials. Check out the antenna stack this person built to conquer his long range problem (greater than 50 miles) using a set of Blakes. Antenna stacks are one way of overcoming long-distance reception problems:

http://www.bobmerritt.com/dtv/dtv.htm

For my VHF needs (NBC broadcasts HDTV in Atlanta over VHF, all the others use UHF), I bought a Radio Shack VU-190 ($90). Both the UHF and the VHF antennas go into the same pre-amp to feed a single line to my HD receiver.

I needed to supplement my antennas with a ChannelMaster pre-amp (7777 or 7775) at my distance. I found other preamps have too high a noise factor to be effective.

In mounting the antenna, you are going to have to find the "sweet spot" appropriate for your location. Mounting the antennas just anywhere on your roof or in your attic may not work. It took me several weeks to find the exact location at which my antennas would receive the signals consistently and the receiver lock onto them. Antennaweb.org will also give you the co-ordinates at which to point your antenna (mine were 205 degrees southeast) if you pop in your address. Don't be deceived by "antenna professionals" who come in for an hour or so to mount an antenna, convince you that the signals are being received OK, and then disappear with your money never to be seen again - too many of my friends have been snookered by so-called "antenna pros". It takes a lot of time and patience to determine where to mount an antenna and test out the location for signal consistency over a period of days and weeks.

The quality and type of antenna (plus pre-amp) will determine whether you get the signals or not. Cheap antennas from a local store at long distances don't do anything. I'm not a strong believer in combined UHF/VHF antennas (such as the ChannelMaster 3020) at distances greater than 30 miles.

Your reception will be affected by line of sight, distance, and blocking encumbrances (such as trees or towers). Weather conditions also affect reception (ironically the cloudier, the better).

Note: my wife did not like the idea of antennas on the roof so I put them in my attic with great results.

BTW once I was able to get my local channels in HD, I could see just how bad Dish, DirecTV and cable are when it comes to broadcasting the local channels (really poor picture quality). Even the non-HD programming over HD channels was far superior to what the others broadcast. I kept my Dish locals simply because I have a 501 if and when I need to record something local.


----------



## Tool408

:eek2: :hurah: :lol: :grin:

I got my 2 921's!!! but no check out this article from the greatest techie area of the world. Silicon Valley. This can be found on
www.BayArea.com

Posted on Thu, Jan. 08, 2004

High-definition TV when you want it
WITH DISH NETWORK'S NEW SYSTEM, BIG-BUCKS DVR BUYS BIG PERFORMANCE
By Mike Langberg
San Jose Mercury News

I'm no longer willing to watch television programs according to some arbitrary schedule set by broadcasters -- even newfangled high-definition (HD) shows.

And I'm no longer interested in messing with videotapes while struggling to program a VCR to record a show I want to catch later.

For the past four years, I've been happily collecting hours and hours of shows on the hard drive of my digital video recorder (DVR) and watching them at my convenience.

I haven't considered moving up to HD because -- until now -- there was no worthwhile HD DVR.

That has changed in a big way with the very appealing DishPlayer DVR 921 from satellite-TV service Dish Network (www.dishnetwork.com).

This 18-pound silver box, introduced in late December, is a satellite receiver for both HD and standard channels from Dish Network, a tuner for receiving and recording local over-the-air HD broadcasts received through a roof antenna, and a DVR with a gigantic 250-gigabyte hard drive.

That hard drive holds 25 hours of HD programming, or a staggering 180 hours of regular TV.

There's just one big obstacle between me and digital nirvana: The 921 costs an eye-popping $999. While that would stretch my budget, it's a drop in the bucket for home theater enthusiasts who've spent perhaps $6,000 for a big plasma TV and $3,000 for a neighborhood-shaking surround-sound system. Indeed, Dish Network says demand is so high that customers might have to wait several weeks to get a 921 delivered.

I've just spent 10 days picking among Dish Network's eight HD channels with a 921 the company loaned me, recording shows and movies for later viewing in all their wide-screen, Dolby Digital glory. It's going to be hard to pick up the phone later this month to summon the installer to collect the 921.

I'll console myself by thinking how fast prices go down for all digital gadgets; maybe I'll only have to wait a year or two for HD DVRs to reach $500 -- the point at which I'd open my wallet.

Certainly, there will be lots of competitive pressure. DirecTV (www.directv.com), Dish Network's archrival, is promising to ship the HD-DVR250 by March. The specs are almost identical to the 921; both have 250-gigabyte hard drives and two tuners, as well as recording over-the-air HD. DirecTV hasn't yet announced a price, but it's likely to be about $1,000.

Motorola and Scientific Atlanta, the two main providers of set-top boxes to cable companies, also are developing HD cable boxes with built-in DVRs. Some cable operators could start offering them later this year, although they're unlikely to be widely available until 2005 or beyond.

I'll restrain myself from foaming at the mouth in extolling DVRs. I'll just say that once you own one, you'll never happily go back to a pre-DVR existence. To grab every weekly episode of a show, you need only click ``record'' one time at the beginning of the season. If the phone rings during the middle of a live show, you can hit ``pause'' and resume watching right where you left off. Or you can start watching a recorded program at 9:20 p.m. that began broadcasting at 9 p.m., catching up to real time just as the program ends at 10 p.m. by fast-forwarding through commercials. None of these tricks can be matched by a videocassette recorder.

I've also been lukewarm in the past about the value of HD. But I'm slowly becoming a convert. Movies and television shows shot on film look as good or better than the sharpest DVDs when viewed in HD, and they are accompanied by full surround-sound. Programs shot with HD cameras -- mostly nature shows and sporting events, for now -- are breathtaking in their sharpness and rich colors.

Of course, all this extra detail requires far more storage space on a hard disk than needed for what's now called standard-definition TV. The 40-gigabyte drives common in many standard-definition DVRs would hold an insufficient four hours of HD.

So I can't blame Dish Network for selling the 921 at $999; big hard drives cost money, as do the electronics for decoding HD broadcasts.

And, in this case, big bucks buy big performance. The 921 did an outstanding job in delivering the oomph of HD at my house, viewed through my Dell 2100MP front projector.

I have only a few minor quibbles. The instruction manual doesn't clearly explain the rather complicated process of setting the correct output mode, which can vary from 480i to 480p to 720p to 1080i; or aspect ratio, which can be 16x9 or 4x3. I had to figure it out myself by trial and error. If you have no clue what I'm talking about and don't want to know, you might want to wait another year or two as HD DVR providers work on ways to make configuration automatic.

More jargon overkill: The 921 has both component and DVI outputs for HD, as well as composite and S-Video outputs for standard-definition. You can hook up both an HD and a regular TV to the 921, but you can't run both at the same time.

Another small issue is over-the-air reception. You can only connect a roof antenna by coaxial cable to the 921; there's no component video input for connecting a cable box. If you can't get local HD reception through an antenna, a big problem in the hilly Bay Area, this would keep you from using an HD cable box instead.

On the plus side, Dish Network doesn't charge a monthly fee for DVR service. You do pay $9.99 a month for a package of four HD channels: Discovery, ESPN, HD Net and HD Net Movies. In many parts of the country, including the Bay Area, the package includes HD programs from CBS. If you subscribe to HBO or Showtime, you also get an HD version at no extra charge. And there's a pay-per-view HD movie channel, with most titles costing $5.99.

I should note that Dish Network didn't ship the first HD DVR. The honors go to Zenith, which introduced the HDR230 (www.zenith.com) in June. But it's no bargain, selling for $999 with a modest 80-gigabyte hard drive and only recording from a roof antenna. LG, Zenith's parent company, is bringing out a somewhat upgraded model in February, the LST-3410A (www.lgusa.com) at $999, with a 120-gigabyte drive and component video inputs.

JVC (www.jvc.com) launched a line of HD VCRs in 2002 using a format it developed called D-VHS. But prices are high, with the least expensive D-VHS VCR now selling for about $799, and the convenience is low in comparison to a DVR. It seems unlikely the format will catch on.

I am bullish, however, on HD DVRs, especially when they're built into satellite or cable receivers. The Dish Network DVR 921 isn't perfect, but it's a great starting point for a technology that will make HD much more popular.


----------



## Ronald K

I got mine Friday.

Great picture quality!

The OTA has been a real problem for me.

I am not eligible for locals or east/west coast network. Can anyone tell me how I can still get an east coast network guide?

Ron


----------



## tnsprin

Tool408 said:


> :eek2: :hurah: :lol: :grin:
> ...
> JVC (www.jvc.com) launched a line of HD VCRs in 2002 using a format it developed called D-VHS. But prices are high, with the least expensive D-VHS VCR now selling for about $799, and the convenience is low in comparison to a DVR. It seems unlikely the format will catch on.
> ...


The Format goes back a lot further than that, but was once very expensive and hard to get. I have had a Panasonic DVHS recorder since 1999.

The first JVC DVHS (HMDH30000U) is commonly available under $450. The newer one (HM-DH40000U) is available under $650. Until a HD-DVD recorder (or some other media) is commonly available, the format will remain important. You cannot keep everything on a disc that only holds 18 hour of HD recordings.


----------



## Throwbot

tnsprin said:


> The Format goes back a lot further than that, but was once very expensive and hard to get. I have had a Panasonic DVHS recorder since 1999.
> 
> The first JVC DVHS (HMDH30000U) is commonly available under $450. The newer one (HM-DH40000U) is available under $650. Until a HD-DVD recorder (or some other media) is commonly available, the format will remain important. You cannot keep everything on a disc that only holds 18 hour of HD recordings.


Heck I've been using the Dish JVC DSR100 DVHS since ts debut in 1998 (wasn't the same kind of excitement over that back then) that machine has served me so well , never failed , recording in digital MPEG and playback was indistinguishable from the source. Only giving it up for the 921 . It's only fault was the "we are making our final approach" 747 turbine fan noise, and reading the threads seems they still did not put a high quality cooling fan in the 921. Come on guys.


----------



## BobMurdoch

Throwbot said:


> I could only dream of 7 channels, I grow up on BBC 1 plus ITV, and when I turned 14 years old ....BBC 2 ! Dam if i didn't ejaculate right on the spot.


I grew up in Central New Jersey in the shadow of New York, so I was blessed.


----------



## tm22721

Throwbot said:


> Heck I've been using the Dish JVC DSR100 DVHS since ts debut in 1998.


I have had my 921 for a week but I will not part with my DSR100 until Dishwire is available.


----------



## BobMurdoch

Richard King said:


> From what I have heard from my regional manager, Echostar Atlanta has not received any 921's since sometime last week (not this past week), a VERY small shipment. If enough had come in for you to get one from your retailer it would have shipped last week, not this past week. I received my first and only 921 on Tuesday (shipped from Echostar on Friday) and shipped it out that day to a lucky member of this board. Per my regional manager they have received none since and won't commit as to when they will receive another (for my other two sold). The one I received is in my avatar, looking very lonely.


Ah, but I am keeping it company NOW! It will never be lonely again......


----------



## Richard King

I am sure it appreciates your company, Bob.


----------



## Mark_AR

Installed my 2nd 'Keeper' 921 today.

Works just as good as the first!


----------



## Throwbot

tm22721 said:


> I have had my 921 for a week but I will not part with my DSR100 until Dishwire is available.


I was under the impression that I would not be able to record HDTV from the 921 to my DSR100 ? Incompatible etc etc, what's your take on this?
How are you planning on using them both? Very interested.


----------



## TVBob

After a very long wait, I finally received my DVR-921 from VSSLL on Jan. 8th, and had it hooked up to the SW-64 that night. The DISH 6000 is still connected to my ReplayTV 5080.

Comparing the DVR-921 to the DISH 6000 / ReplayTV 5080 combo.

Pros: 

DVR-921 can time-shift/record HD in HD (but OTA HD recording not reliable enough yet)
Can record Dolby 5.1 surround sound
No encoding means no loss in picture quality or sound quality
DVR-921 reliably records satellite broadcasts (no IR blaster channel change failures)
Can record two shows at the same time
No Internet connection / phone line required to get channel guide data
Fast-forward is extremely fast and smooth compared to the ReplayTV
The browse feature works while watching a recording
All PPV movies are listed in the guide (ReplayTV doesn't)
You can sort the recordings different ways
On-screen progress meter

Cons:

Still buggy, first software release. Some instability in the UI, some hangs.
DVR-921 uses time-based, rather than name-based recordings (if a show changes its time slot, the DVR-921 will record the wrong thing)
No way to "Record first run episodes only" (i.e., "Don't record repeats")
No "season pass" or "theme-based" recordings, i.e., can't record all episodes of "The Simpsons" no matter what time or channel
No automatic commercial skip (ReplayTV licensed the Commercial-Advance(tm) technology).
No access to the MPEG files on disk for streaming or burning DVDs (as with a ReplayTV and DVArchive on a PC) 
RECALL button doesn't jump back and forth between recordings and "Live"
No "Return to Live" button (View doesn't work)
Local OTA programming is not listed in the guide
No "Critique" (star ratings) shown in the guide or banner (you have to press Info)
Cannot search Guide by all attributes (e.g., show me all upcoming 4-star movies)
Searching the guide is slow, no progress indicator
No shortcuts for navigating the guide (jump to 8 p.m., skip ahead 7 days), unless you do a bunch of math in your head
Browse feature doesn't scroll to the future; it just shows the current show and the next show
No MPEG encoder for saving videos to hard disk
DVR list doesn't display show titles in the list. You have to read the top of the display and keep moving the cursor to see all of the show titles

In sum, I'll be happy with the DVR-921 when they finally correct the OTA bug. I'll be _really_ happy with it when it has name-based recording. And if Echostar is ever brave enough to offer automatic commercial skip and a DVD recorder, then it will be better than any TiVo or ReplayTV.


----------



## Ben Welijka

TVBob said:


> 921 can time-shift/record HD in HD (but OTA HD recording not reliable enough yet)


TVBob,

Can you expand on "OTA HD recording not reliable enough"?

Because I have good OTA reception of HD locals, plus a 501 for my other Dish channels, I would only buy the 921 because it could reliably record my local OTA HD channels. What is unreliable about the 921 recording HD OTA? Thanks.


----------



## TVBob

Ben Welijka said:


> Can you expand on "OTA HD recording not reliable enough"?


See http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=21673

The OTA tuner in the 921 locks up if there is a weak OTA HD signal. I suppose the same thing may happen if an airplane passes overhead, and you get multipath into the HD tuner. It's supposed to be fixed by the next software release, though it's not clear when that will happen (sometime this month I hope).


----------



## tahoerob

Ben Welijka said:


> TVBob,
> 
> Can you expand on "OTA HD recording not reliable enough"?
> 
> Because I have good OTA reception of HD locals, plus a 501 for my other Dish channels, I would only buy the 921 because it could reliably record my local OTA HD channels. What is unreliable about the 921 recording HD OTA? Thanks.


*First*, the OTA bug related to SS is an issue for recording or even changing channels for now.
*Second,* since there is no guide data, you cannot one button set a timer in the guide. You have to manually set a timer. One option tha tdoes owrk is goto the SD locals in guide (usually a 7000 or 8000 number) select it to record & then change the channel to the OTA one in the edit timer. This is quicker. It will keep correct info up unitl it actually records. Then you get an "Unknown Recording" name for the recorded evert.
*Third*, it seems to NOT like any attempt to watch the OTA at the same time as recording. Thus, set an OTA timer & leave the OTA channels alone.
When I tried one it did not give me any appropriate error when trying to tune to another OTA channel. It just locked up!

With the next update (we are told in the next few days), they are supposed to fix the OTA problem as well as increase the tuner sensitivity. The guide data may have to take while.


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## Allen Noland

My 921 arrived from DishStore.Net today. It worked out of the box. It will be really nice once the OTA bug is fixed.


----------



## tm22721

Throwbot said:


> I was under the impression that I would not be able to record HDTV from the 921 to my DSR100 ? Incompatible etc etc, what's your take on this?
> How are you planning on using them both? Very interested.


Dishwire will connect to a JVC40000 DVHS (I will get rid of the DSR100).


----------



## ibglowin

OK,

My 921 is scheduled to be dropped on my front door today around noon. (good thing none ofyou know where I live!) Long wait for sure. It could have been in my hands on Saturday but I live in the middle of nowhere and not only do they not offer Saturday delivery as an option by UPS, you can't even go pick it up at the UPS warehouse in Santa Fe so I told Mark at Dish Depot to just 2 day AIR it to me.

I have decided to put it in the Master bedroom until I can test drive it and see how stable it is with the OTA bug. I have a 6000 out in the living room that works just dandy and with the playoffs and the Superbowl coming up I need an absolute stable platform for OTA not to mention the entertainment center in the living room will be an all day affair to take down and set up vs about a 10 min cable swap in the bedroom.

Here is my question though.......


What is the order of setup for the 921? I have seen several post about when to call, when to do the check switch and how long to wait till the software download is finished.

Do we have a consensus on all this folks?

Thanks!


----------



## tahoerob

ibglowin said:


> OK,
> 
> My 921 is scheduled to be dropped on my front door today around noon. (good thing none ofyou know where I live!) Long wait for sure. It could have been in my hands on Saturday but I live in the middle of nowhere and not only do they not offer Saturday delivery as an option by UPS, you can't even go pick it up at the UPS warehouse in Santa Fe so I told Mark at Dish Depot to just 2 day AIR it to me.
> 
> I have decided to put it in the Master bedroom until I can test drive it and see how stable it is with the OTA bug. I have a 6000 out in the living room that works just dandy and with the playoffs and the Superbowl coming up I need an absolute stable platform for OTA not to mention the entertainment center in the living room will be an all day affair to take down and set up vs about a 10 min cable swap in the bedroom.
> 
> Here is my question though.......
> 
> What is the order of setup for the 921? I have seen several post about when to call, when to do the check switch and how long to wait till the software download is finished.
> 
> Do we have a consensus on all this folks?
> 
> Thanks!


if you call a CSR in the beginning thay will end up staying on the phone with for the hoour setup time!!

THE download will take at least 45min. It has a progress guide ie. 5 of 30, 6 of 30 etc.. with a timer showing time elapsed.

The UHF remote will not work properly until AFTER the 45m download. Use the 6000 remote until then.

After intial boot you will probably have channel 101. At leaset now yuou know it works. The menu is limited until after the download. I am not sure when the download is supposed to run. However, the switch check is necessary for the unit to know that both tuners are working.

If you can get the unit to download before you call CSR, the better. 
I booted, did switch check, then got nothing new & called CSR to activate box. THEN the download started. So I had to make small talk with the CSR for 45 minutes!

Good Luck......


----------



## fjerina

Got my 921 today here in Albuquerque from Richard at New Mexico Satellite. I am also having problems with the OTA local channels and trying to record them. I sure hope the new software upgrade will rectify these problems. It is hard to believe this thing was in development for over 2 years and they released the unit with some very obvious bugs. Who did they hire to do the software?


----------



## ibglowin

Well my long awaited 921 did indeed arrive yesterday. 

The wife says "we paid a kilobuck for this?" That was after several hours of trying to get the OTA tuner to work. Oh well, she was happy with the 6000/508 set up I suppose. The OTA is useless right now. I have added in 6 stations but about half of them will crash the OTA tuner if you try and tune to that channel. Your hosed until you pull the plug and do a complete hard reboot.

Had a few install problems. First, the 921 has to see the same SATs on both tuners. I had 2 drops in the bedroom. One had just 110,119 and the other had 110,119 and 61.5 which was of course my drop for the 6000. If you run a check switch test it will come back with what each tuner sees but it won't let you store the info. Only option is to somehow get another feed of 61.5 into the bedroom or go up into the attic and pull 61.5 off that one receiver so they both see the same SATs. I ended up pulling down the 61.5 since I din't have any extra switches lying around the house. The only thing I lost of course was the HD Demo channel as we know all HD has been moved off the wings. 921 was happy after that.

You know, its just not real clear that the 921 is taking a software download after you plug it in. I knew it was from all the rest of the post but you have to search for the page that displays the update progress. How many people are going to not understand this and keep pulling the plug and rebooting on this machine because the download screen doesn't show up as a default?

After the download was complete the 921 just hung with a blank screen. Everytime I switch to the software update screen, it would show a blip of the screen and then go blank. At this point I called a CSR and asked immediately for advanced tech support. He said they have made some changes in there support center and now ATS is with them at all times. He was nice, said he had just gone through 921 install training and could help me. We pulled the plug for a few minutes and reconnected everything and rebooted. Damn this thing takes forever and a day to boot up. Even an old PII WinTel box boots faster I think.

Finally came up with the remote control help channel 101 and new software showed up in sys info screen. Got the receiver activated OK,all channels showing up in guide and let the CSR go. He actually asked me if I was interested working for Dish! He said "man you know this stuff pretty well for not working in this business." I guess thats what hanging out on DBSTalk all the time will do for you! Put it on the resume'!

I have the usual reported bugs that everyone else has (darn,was hoping to get lucky). Aspect control needs work AND it doesn't seem to remember your aspect settings. The response seems quick compared of course to my 6000 /508 combo. I like not having to swap inputs to switch between two receivers. Didn't get a chance to tryout any PVR functions last night was late after I got it working. PIP didn't work at first, kept saying something about "not available in safe mode". Not sure why but it started working fine after a while (and a couple more reboots trying to get OTA working)

Bottom line..... I made the right decision to install into the bedroom instead of out in the living room. The 921 is NOT ready for primetime as of today. Hopfully soon. The reciever has the potential to be a great one for sure but if OTA is important to you , the 921 will leave you very unhappy at the moment. PQ on the HD pack channels looks the same as the 6000 so no worries there. We now have loads more space to record our favorite shows and that is a real advantage. Looking forward to the day (hopfully soon) that the DVHS (Dishwire) gets activated so I have the option to dump content to a tape for archiving.

Time to put my 6000 on ebay or should I hold on it!

I sorta feel like I just bought a Mits Altair back in the mid 70's (ha!) Cool stuff for boys who love eletronics toys. Count me in as an official Dish Network Beta Tester!


----------



## buist

It seems that some of the issues with recording OTA channels may be related to signal strength. I am curious if anyone has looked at what the minimum signal that has worked successfully for OTA. Also, I am curious about what percentage of OTA recordings are working with a good signal. For me, OTA is a key part of the 921. If the fix for the problems it many months away, I hate to say this - but I have to take a long look at D*..

Tim


----------



## Mark Lamutt

The fix is weeks away, not months.


----------



## Throwbot

Mark Lamutt said:


> The fix is weeks away, not months.


Mark seeing this thread is a 921 "roll call" any idea just how many are out there? Just wondered if you are keeping score. Still waiting for the flood gates to open up .


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## Mark Lamutt

From what I've seen posted around, and from reports from dealers, I'd guess there's between 100 and 200 out now.


----------



## ibglowin

Throwbot said:


> Mark seeing this thread is a 921 "roll call" any idea just how many are out there? Just wondered if you are keeping score. Still waiting for the flood gates to open up .


Scott reported (yesterday) a "huge" shipment for their store.

"huge" is said to be 24.

Not a flood but that's more than most others places I've heard about if its accurate.


----------



## ibglowin

buist said:


> It seems that some of the issues with recording OTA channels may be related to signal strength. I am curious if anyone has looked at what the minimum signal that has worked successfully for OTA. Also, I am curious about what percentage of OTA recordings are working with a good signal. For me, OTA is a key part of the 921. If the fix for the problems it many months away, I hate to say this - but I have to take a long look at D*..
> 
> Tim


Were trying to compare Apples and Oranges here.

On my 6000, I was getting a signal between 80% and 95% on all channels and I am 50 miles away as the crow flys with a great line of sight.

Last night while trying to tune channels on the 921 they were ALL over 100% and locked easily.

Then You try and watch them and it craps out. This is NOT a signal strength problem unless its too much signal strength (perhaps they need to cut the gain down on the tuner?)


----------



## Mark Lamutt

It's a software problem, not a hardware problem. And it's been fixed (along with 22 other bugs) in the next software release (assuming of course the information I've received is accurate).


----------



## BobMurdoch

Here's a hypothetical for all you OTA veterans.....

I'm 45 miles from New York City and 62-65 miles from Philly according to antennaweb.org. They figure I only have a shot at receiving NY channels except for KYW out of Philly. Only thing is the site only mentions the analog channels not the digital channels (although weirdly it says I can receive a digital station from Kingston, NY which is 97 miles away... this is the only digital station that pops up).

Has antennaweb.org not been updated with the digital tower info yet, or is the digital signal WEAKER than analog (which goes against what I've been expecting). I know power output varies, but is anyone receiving Philly stations from 60+ miles away or am I stuck with New York only? (I'm trying to get some Philly sports for my wife if you are wondering.....).

If you can't help me with specifics, how far away from your towers are you, what strength do you get, and at what signal strength does your picture peter out on you? Sorry, do ask so many questions, but I'm a newbie with OTA and am still unsure how to proceed with hooking up my 921 to OTA (yeah, I know it's not ready for prime time yet, but I want to be ready when it is)


----------



## Mark Lamutt

Bob - with a good, high gain UHF antenna installed outside and carefully positioned, and with no or few obstructions between you and the towers, and if the stations are broadcasting at full power in the UHF spectrum, you should be able to receive digital stations from 60 miles away. But, all of those issues factor into it.


----------



## Throwbot

BobMurdoch said:


> Here's a hypothetical for all you OTA veterans.....
> 
> I'm 45 miles from New York City and 62-65 miles from Philly according to antennaweb.org. They figure I only have a shot at receiving NY channels except for KYW out of Philly. Only thing is the site only mentions the analog channels not the digital channels (although weirdly it says I can receive a digital station from Kingston, NY which is 97 miles away... this is the only digital station that pops up).
> 
> Has antennaweb.org not been updated with the digital tower info yet, or is the digital signal WEAKER than analog (which goes against what I've been expecting). I know power output varies, but is anyone receiving Philly stations from 60+ miles away or am I stuck with New York only? (I'm trying to get some Philly sports for my wife if you are wondering.....).
> 
> If you can't help me with specifics, how far away from your towers are you, what strength do you get, and at what signal strength does your picture peter out on you? Sorry, do ask so many questions, but I'm a newbie with OTA and am still unsure how to proceed with hooking up my 921 to OTA (yeah, I know it's not ready for prime time yet, but I want to be ready when it is)


Bob, might want to check, I was surprised that one local out of 8 in the Cleveland area is using VHF to transmit digital, So a dedicated UHF is not an option for me. I'd honestly by a pair of rabbit ears from Radio Shack stick them on your wife and send her up on the roof before investing too much. :lol:


----------



## Throwbot

ibglowin said:


> Scott reported (yesterday) a "huge" shipment for their store.
> 
> "huge" is said to be 24.
> 
> Not a flood but that's more than most others places I've heard about if its accurate.


Which company is Scott with again?
Anyone heard from Dish Depot lately?
does 921 stand for 09-21?


----------



## JohnMI

Note also that AntennaWeb recently changed their algorithms for determining if you can pick up a digital channel. I had 7 two months ago -- now I only have 2 according to AntennaWeb -- both PBS stations very nearby.

- John...


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## BobMurdoch

Mark Lamutt said:


> Bob - with a good, high gain UHF antenna installed outside and carefully positioned, and with no or few obstructions between you and the towers, and if the stations are broadcasting at full power in the UHF spectrum, you should be able to receive digital stations from 60 miles away. But, all of those issues factor into it.


Actually, I have a pretty good situation looking towards Philly which is 60 miles away. My house is on a hill 30 feet above sea level looking SW towards Philly. There is only one house in my line of sight before a 400 yard wide river and his house is 8 ft. lower than mine due to the fact that the hill slopes down from my house towards his. I've got a clear view of the sky from there, and NJ and Philly are east of the Appalachians there so no mountains to interfere. It is strictly a transmission power issue. Knowing all of this what is the best antenna for my needs (I'd rather spend for a good one rather than cheap out and get a mediocre one.) Any suggestions?


----------



## BobMurdoch

Throwbot said:


> Bob, might want to check, I was surprised that one local out of 8 in the Cleveland area is using VHF to transmit digital, So a dedicated UHF is not an option for me. I'd honestly by a pair of rabbit ears from Radio Shack stick them on your wife and send her up on the roof before investing too much. :lol:


ALL digital channels coming out of Philly are on the UHF band according to a Home Theater magazine article I read last year..... (They used Philly as a test for hooking up OTA HD)


----------



## Mark Lamutt

Bob - if all of the channels are UHF, I'd go with either the Channel Master 3023 (or 4248) in a yagi style antenna (the 3023 is basically the same as the 4248 except it comes in 2 pieces rather than 1 8' long piece) or a Channel Master 4228 which is an 8 bow tie antenna.


----------



## BobMurdoch

If you were me Mark, which would YOU use?


----------



## Mark Lamutt

I'd try the yagi first with and without a good pre-amp, and then go to the bowtie style. Other people would probably reverse that, as the bowtie style has a slightly higher gain than the yagi.

Also, if you're going to try to get both Philly and NY, you'll most likely need a rotor as well to rotate the antenna.


----------



## BobMurdoch

OK, thanks..... I'll get to work on finding it.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

I'd try locally first (that way it's easy to return if it doesn't work)...if you can't find local, then www.starkelectronic.com is where I ordered mine from.


----------



## ibglowin

Mark Lamutt said:


> I'd try locally first (that way it's easy to return if it doesn't work)...if you can't find local, then www.starkelectronic.com is where I ordered mine from.


I can second Mark's recommendation for Starke. I went with them for my 4228 (8 Bowtie UHF ONLY) and good preamp. They shipped it out FEDex for cheap. Now if only my 921 had a working tuner. ha! :nono2:


----------



## Throwbot

BobMurdoch said:


> If you were me Mark, which would YOU use?


Just to show you I sometimes have more than stupid comments to make , I would go with a blake aerial. Built specially for digital.
http://www.bobmerritt.com/dtv/dtv.htm
They are made in England by solid hard drinkin Yorkshiremen.
Could pull in Osama bin Lauden's mobile with two of these babies on your roof.


----------



## Throwbot

BobMurdoch said:


> ALL digital channels coming out of Philly are on the UHF band according to a Home Theater magazine article I read last year..... (They used Philly as a test for hooking up OTA HD)


Bob, Just to check, because it is important, go back to
www.antennaweb.org
and put in your address and go through the pages, click on digital stations only, and under "antenna type", it will list UHF or VHF plus upcoming stations not yet broadcasting, again worth checking because UHF antenna is the way to go. Smaller and dedicated to UHF.
Regards,
Stuart Watson


----------



## wcswett

Throwbot said:


> Anyone heard from Dish Depot lately?
> does 921 stand for 09-21?


I got an email from Mark at Dish Depot today. I'm now #3 on the list and should have my new 921 by next week, in plenty of time for the Superbowl.  My original number was "in the first 20" at DD.

For me, 921 stands for between Jan. 9 and Jan. 21. 

--- WCS


----------



## Throwbot

wcswett said:


> I got an email from Mark at Dish Depot today. I'm now #3 on the list and should have my new 921 by next week, in plenty of time for the Superbowl.  My original number was "in the first 20" at DD.
> 
> For me, 921 stands for between Jan. 9 and Jan. 21.
> 
> --- WCS


Thanks WCS, it's encouraging that he is starting to ship. 
There was a time when Patience ceased to be a virtue. It was long ago.

SW
:nono:


----------



## BobMurdoch

Throwbot said:


> Bob, Just to check, because it is important, go back to
> www.antennaweb.org
> and put in your address and go through the pages, click on digital stations only, and under "antenna type", it will list UHF or VHF plus upcoming stations not yet broadcasting, again worth checking because UHF antenna is the way to go. Smaller and dedicated to UHF.
> Regards,
> Stuart Watson


I think something is hinky as it only lists the Kingston station which is 96 miles away. New York stations should be 45 miles away and Philly is 63-65. I should be able to pull them in if it thinks I can see one 96 miles away...... (and which is straight line of sight through Manhattan on the way to Kingston which is twice the distance....)


----------



## leemathre

Got my 921 yesterday. It looks really nice sitting in my living room, too bad I can't use it. I am not a tech, so I paid for an install. The installer is very good and fixed some problems that the original installers left. Got my lines and DP34 switch in, turned on the reciever and could not see the sattys. The installer called Dish tech support and they told him to check out the LNBF's. Turns out that the original installers used Legacy LNBF's on my DisPro 500 system. Worked ok with the sw21's but not with the DP34. The installer did not have any DP LNBF's with him, so I now have to wait until Saturday to get my system working. What a drag. I don't know if I can brag about possibly being the first person in Nevada to get a 921 or not since it is not up and running as of yet.


----------



## Throwbot

leemathre said:


> Got my 921 yesterday. It looks really nice sitting in my living room, too bad I can't use it. I am not a tech, so I paid for an install. The installer is very good and fixed some problems that the original installers left. Got my lines and DP34 switch in, turned on the reciever and could not see the sattys. The installer called Dish tech support and they told him to check out the LNBF's. Turns out that the original installers used Legacy LNBF's on my DisPro 500 system. Worked ok with the sw21's but not with the DP34. The installer did not have any DP LNBF's with him, so I now have to wait until Saturday to get my system working. What a drag. I don't know if I can brag about possibly being the first person in Nevada to get a 921 or not since it is not up and running as of yet.


I also have the dish Pro 500 , could you please explain how I can tell if I have the correct LNBF sw21? DP34? stuff , not even sure what a all that is? So any help from anyone would be a help. Time is not an issue as I am # 3,444,569 on the waiting list at DishDepot.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

The dishpro lnbs will have a big, black DP lettering on them that you can clearly see when looking at the dish. If you don't see the DP, you don't have dishpro lnbs.

The DP34 has 3 inputs on the left side, 4 outputs on the bottom and 3 outputs on the right side (speaking from memory about what mine looks like).


----------



## rudolpht

10 Jan 04. Buggy yet happy. Question whether to rec Adventures of Baron Munchausen tomorrow of try the (for the time breing) dependable 5000 route.


----------



## Bill R

Mark Lamutt said:


> The DP34 has 3 inputs on the left side, 4 outputs on the bottom and 3 outputs on the right side (speaking from memory about what mine looks like).


The ones I saw (early models) had two outputs on the top and two on the bottom. The 3 outputs on the right side are trunking outputs to feed another DP34.


----------



## Throwbot

Mark Lamutt said:


> The dishpro lnbs will have a big, black DP lettering on them that you can clearly see when looking at the dish. If you don't see the DP, you don't have dishpro lnbs.
> 
> The DP34 has 3 inputs on the left side, 4 outputs on the bottom and 3 outputs on the right side (speaking from memory about what mine looks like).


OK , Thanks Mark, you should charge for all this info , you'd make a decent living! but I'm still confused, I just went out and took a look, (-8 wind chill,wife shaking head, lots of rolling of eyes) I have the Dish 500 and the LNBS do not have the big black lettering you speak of, they just say digital LBNF on them, they then feed to two SW21 's two lines into each one, one line out of each. I just had this Dish 500 installed two weeks ago. Are you saying that this will not work with the 921? Plan on feeding just the 921 from this single Dish 500. Please post soon, it's :new_color cold out here!


----------



## srrobinson2

Mark Lamutt said:


> It's a software problem, not a hardware problem. And it's been fixed (along with 22 other bugs) in the next software release (assuming of course the information I've received is accurate).


This is pitiful--why doesn't Dish test their software internally before releasing it? If I did that with my company, I would be out of a job quickly!


----------



## Mark Lamutt

It'll work just fine. You have legacy dual lnbs feeding 2 SW21 switches from your description. So, you'll need to take the output lines of both SW21s and run them into your 921. And it'll work just fine.

Nah...wouldn't want to charge for this stuff - this is what I do for fun! (among other things)


----------



## Throwbot

Throwbot said:


> OK , Thanks Mark, you should charge for all this info , you'd make a decent living! but I'm still confused, I just went out and took a look, (-8 wind chill,wife shaking head, lots of rolling of eyes) I have the Dish 500 and the LNBS do not have the big black lettering you speak of, they just say digital LBNF on them, they then feed to two SW21 's two lines into each one, one line out of each. I just had this Dish 500 installed two weeks ago. Are you saying that this will not work with the 921? Plan on feeding just the 921 from this single Dish 500. Please post soon, it's :new_color cold out here!


Actually Mark, I went to Dish Home page this is exactally what I have but as of now just feed one reciever.
http://www.dishnetwork.com/downloads/pdf/technology/installation/install-1.pdf
Regards
Stuart


----------



## Throwbot

Mark Lamutt said:


> It'll work just fine. You have legacy dual lnbs feeding 2 SW21 switches from your description. So, you'll need to take the output lines of both SW21s and run them into your 921. And it'll work just fine.
> 
> Nah...wouldn't want to charge for this stuff - this is what I do for fun! (among other things)


"You be the man." I believe they say over here


----------



## Mark Lamutt

If you've only got one line going to your receiver, you'll have to run the other 2 lines from the dish lnbs to another sw21 switch, and then take that line to your 921 location to get the 921 to work.


----------



## Throwbot

Mark Lamutt said:


> If you've only got one line going to your receiver, you'll have to run the other 2 lines from the dish lnbs to another sw21 switch, and then take that line to your 921 location to get the 921 to work.


Now I feel smart, I told the installer to run the extra line and leave it hanging , which he did so now I'm all set. ..............................
Oh wait a minute I nearly forgot, I DON'T HAVE MY 921 YET, ok ok breathe , just breathe.
C.E. is messin with my head mate. Release the hounds! Open the flood gates!


----------



## sleepy hollow

OK, well I took the plunge and need some advice, please. 

I just ordered the following:

From local dealer:

A 921 (two week estimated lead time) for 999.

From DISH:

A free 510 (with 24-mo committment, plus $5 per mo)
A local channel upgrade to see the 61.5 bird. This will apparently add another dish, but hopefully my wife will not see it (righht, sure).
Install date - 2/12

I currently have 2 Phillips receivers, a D500 wih dual LNBFs, and I believe an SW21. 

So, I need one more cable run to the 921 location. And I need a new switch deal. 

I am hoping to get the installer to put a switch up with the new setup that will acommodate the 921 without having to pay extra for that. that is have him do it as part of the locals setup. 

What would you folks recommend for the new switch? I do not understand the logic of the setup exactly, but I know I need three total feeds - 2 to the 921 and 1 to the 510. How do I get that from 2 dishes and 3 "horns"? 

Thanks.


----------



## Redster

I feel bad now after reading about everyone on waiting lists. I started reading all the reviews for the 921 last weekend. I picked up a bigscreen on Sat.,, started searching for the 921 and Tuesday morning found one at Vanns.com . I ordered it, its now up and running . I am not receiving HD channels yet, and am new to the multi tuner receiver. Once I get the OTA hd channels going, I will be set. I like the PIP, like the looks of the receiver and I am getting a better picture than on my 510 with the 480p upconvert and the new tv. I understand that its new and still under development so any bugs are just an inconvienence and will eventually go away. I cant review based on experience in the satellite field but the 921 set up easily, channels are coming in,, timer is set and working, I wont ask for more from a new product,, least not yet..


----------



## sleepy hollow

Don't feel bad. Enjoy. You'll just go slowly mad hanging out here and having to tolerate mad Scott's rants. See how much fun life can be when you do not know too much. 

I wonder how God feels...


----------



## wcswett

sleepy hollow said:


> OK, well I took the plunge and need some advice, please.
> 
> I just ordered the following:
> 
> From local dealer:
> 
> A 921 (two week estimated lead time) for 999.
> 
> From DISH:
> 
> A free 510 (with 24-mo committment, plus $5 per mo)
> A local channel upgrade to see the 61.5 bird. This will apparently add another dish, but hopefully my wife will not see it (righht, sure).
> Install date - 2/12
> 
> I currently have 2 Phillips receivers, a D500 wih dual LNBFs, and I believe an SW21.
> 
> So, I need one more cable run to the 921 location. And I need a new switch deal.
> 
> I am hoping to get the installer to put a switch up with the new setup that will acommodate the 921 without having to pay extra for that. that is have him do it as part of the locals setup.
> 
> What would you folks recommend for the new switch? I do not understand the logic of the setup exactly, but I know I need three total feeds - 2 to the 921 and 1 to the 510. How do I get that from 2 dishes and 3 "horns"?


I would recommend you get the installer to replace the dual LNBF's on your Dish 500 with a DishPro Twin LNBF. He can then install a DishPro LNBF on your second dish and use a DishPro 34 switch (3 satellite inputs and 4 receiver outputs). The DP34 switch will give you room to expand by one receiver. Your installer should do this set-up, but it would be best to confirm it with him, otherwise you might get stuck with an old SW64 switch, which requires a power inserter on receiver line 1.

--- WCS


----------



## BarryO

he he he ...

Got my tracking number from Justin @ Mainstreet Communications today ( http://www.checkyes.dishontheweb.com/dish_player_921.jhtml )

It should be here Tuesday; 'guess I better install that new LNBF and switch this weekend!


----------



## John Corn

BarryO said:


> he he he ...
> 
> Got my tracking number from Justin @ Mainstreet Communications today ( http://www.checkyes.dishontheweb.com/dish_player_921.jhtml )
> 
> It should be here Tuesday; 'guess I better install that new LNBF and switch this weekend!


 Cool.....I got mine from Justin too.


----------



## ocnier

Got mine thursday! My game plan worked to actually get one, worked! (it practically came to me,... who huh!). I recommend this tactic anyone serious about a 921. I live in the Dallas-Ft. Worth metroplex. I got a map and circled areas of what I call high mass (circle know areas of high wealth/disposable income), I then looked the zip codes for those and called all the local retailers. My logic was that dish would release the units considering the cost and investment to critical mass/rich fat cat areas. I did this monday the 12th (spent 2 hours doing it) by wednesday the 15th someone called me with a unit. Don't let dish bullsh*t ya, they do play favorites (ooohh the almighty dollar, Ergen you're a real d*ck in my opinion). Well, to make a long story short, if didn't have a good basic understanding marketing and enough sense to know when a company plays favorites I would still be SOL! Good luck guys and good hunting gentlemen! 


P.S. What can I say but simply knowledge is POWER.


----------



## BarryO

ocnier said:


> Got mine thursday! My game plan worked to actually get one, worked! (it practically came to me,... who huh!). I recommend this tactic anyone serious about a 921. I live in the Dallas-Ft. Worth metroplex. I got a map and circled areas of what I call high mass (circle know areas of high wealth/disposable income), I then looked the zip codes for those and called all the local retailers. My logic was that dish would release the units considering the cost and investment to critical mass/rich fat cat areas. I did this monday the 12th (spent 2 hours doing it) by wednesday the 15th someone called me with a unit. Don't let dish bullsh*t ya, they do play favorites (ooohh the almighty dollar, Ergen you're a real d*ck in my opinion). Well, to make a long story short, if didn't have a good basic understanding marketing and enough sense to know when a company plays favorites I would still be SOL! Good luck guys and good hunting gentlemen!


Actually, I don't think it's quite that. My guess is that the retailers in the high income areas were the ones who actually ordered some units from the local distributer, figuring some of their well-heeled neighbors would come in and buy them. These "home theater specialists" have the cost structures to carry some high-dollar inventory. The retailers in low-income areas, e.g., those who specialize in selling Dish Latino to the immigrant community, wouldn't bother ordering 921's. They'll sticj to the 301's.

I got mine by a reverse situation. I retailer in the mid-west ordered some 921's, based I guess on the perceived demand he saw on the forums, Guess what, no one in his part of the country was interested. All he had to do was mention in a post over on Satelliteguys that he had some, and he's now been selling every one he gets in.


----------



## guruka

Received my 921 from www. SatelliteOne last Thursday. Setup out of the box went fine. Using two legacy SW-21 switches, dish 500 (110/119 dual LNB) and second dish pointed at 148 wing sat. Off-air is from a Winegard HD-8200 plus a Winegard Chromestar hi-gain pre-amp.

Remote was DOA and Dish is sending a new one. I'm using my 501 remote to control the 921 till the replacement comes.

Would not update software on first boot. Dish "advanced" tech support said I had to climb up on the roof and remove the SW-21 switch from the 119 sat feed. Not true. It updated just fine through the switch. Took about 45 minutes to download L142 software.

Found all 10 local off-air digitals with signal strength of 85 or better (~60 miles from the transmission towers in Albuquerque - I'm in rural northern New Mexico.)

Bugs are same as reported elsewhere, but WOW, it's completely worth putting up with these inconveniences! The HD and SD PQ is wonderful and the PVR features are great.

I'm glad I waited for this one!

.....G


----------



## ggw2000

Guruka, What output are you using for SD on your 921 (s-video? Component?). Are you using 480P or 1080i thru component or ?. What's your setup for SD? I heard that PQ for SD is better than the 501/508 etc. Thanks, Gerry


----------



## dfergie

Guruka, Is that a NM dealer?, I'm in se NM and my local guy said he would not be able to get one in for 2 weeks. ( he called yesterday) that puts it past the super bowl


----------



## dfergie

Never mind, guruka, have found site.


----------



## DVDDAD

Just received mine under 48 hours ago. The hard drive is already 50% full. It's great to be able to record HD content. I'm recording movies again, something I haven't done in three years! (Once I got my HDTV who wanted to record 4X3 480i SD?).

This will be an exceptional addition to my HT set-up once the software is polished up, right now it's just great.


----------



## guruka

ggw2000 said:


> Guruka, What output are you using for SD on your 921 (s-video? Component?). Are you using 480P or 1080i thru component or ?. What's your setup for SD? I heard that PQ for SD is better than the 501/508 etc. Thanks, Gerry


I'm viewing both HD and SD on the DVI (digital) output to my Hitachi digital RPTV. The stretch mode of the 921 is linear (= ugly  ) so I view HD at 1080i and SD at 480p, and then use the TV to stretch the SD image. PQ for SD is definitely better than the 501/508. It's the best quality SD image I've seen yet.

.....G


----------



## guruka

Mark Lamutt said:


> It's a software problem, not a hardware problem. And it's been fixed (along with 22 other bugs) in the next software release (assuming of course the information I've received is accurate).


It would be great to be able to see an actual written list of bugs fixed when the next version is released (instead of just guessing.) :sure: Computer software developers do this routinely, but I can see why E* might not want such a list posted. Still hopin'. . .

.....G


----------



## Mark Lamutt

I'll post it when I can...(that's not yet)


----------



## BarryO

John Corn said:


> Cool.....I got mine from Justin too.


Yes, it was your report of good dealings with Justin that made me sign up to his wait list. 

Mine should be here Tuesday.


----------



## leemathre

Finally got mine working on Saturday when I got the DP LNBF' to go with the DP34 switch. The HD and SD PQ are excellent. OTA in my area is very limited as far as HD is concerned, so I haven't seen the problems in that area. My box has rebooted itself twice in two days. Once when I was just changing channels and the other time when I deleted a recorded program. When it reboots, it locks up and I see a small black cross in the center of a paisley background. That stays on the screen for a couple of minutes then the unit reboots. Takes between five and ten minutes to come back up. Hopefully this is something that will be fixed when the new software version is released. By the way, I was very pleased with my retailer (Sky Technologies in Salt Lake City 1-866-367-7591) and my installer (Community Dish in Pahrump, NV 775-751-4882). I believe that they both treated me fairly and I would recommend them to anyonw who lives in this part of the country.


----------



## guruka

leemathre said:


> When it reboots, it locks up and I see a small black cross in the center of a paisley background. That stays on the screen for a couple of minutes then the unit reboots.


A paisley background, huh? Wow that must look a lot nicer than the kinda grey square with an x in the middle mine shows when it reboots.  :lol:


----------



## MM-etech

Got mine on 12/30/04 for VSSLL.COM. Great unit, hopefully they will get most of the bugs out soon. Once prices drop, I will replace my other 6000 with another 921.


----------



## SParker

Wow that is what I call a late delivery! :grin:



MM-etech said:


> Got mine on 12/30/04 for VSSLL.COM. Great unit, hopefully they will get most of the bugs out soon. Once prices drop, I will replace my other 6000 with another 921.


----------



## Raymond Simonian

I picked my 921 up yesterday from a local retailer. Installed it myself. However the retailer had installed the DishPro LNB's and the leads. I installed the DP 34 switch myself. 
When I moved the 811 to the bedroom it would not turn back on. Dish is sending me another one. It is expected to arrive on Friday, Jan 23, 2004.


----------



## wcswett

Well, I'm now, finally, the proud owner of a brand new, shiny... um... er... UPS tracking number. My 921 should arrive from Dish Depot around Tuesday of next week.

--- WCS


----------



## ibglowin

wcswett said:


> Well, I'm now, finally, the proud owner of a brand new, shiny... um... er... UPS tracking number. My 921 should arrive from Dish Depot around Tuesday of next week.
> 
> --- WCS


Who hooo!

Luke, feel the force of L1.45 !

Enjoy, if your like me, you keep looking at the tracking page every few hours to see where your 921 is at!


----------



## wcswett

ibglowin said:


> Luke, feel the force of L1.45 !


Heh heh... well, I don't personally have any OTA channels within reception range, either analog or digital, so don't need that update as much as others do.



ibglowin said:


> Enjoy, if your like me, you keep looking at the tracking page every few hours to see where your 921 is at!


I look at it every few MINUTES!  The frustrating part will be watching it sit in one place all weekend before it starts moving again on Monday. I guess I should be happy to have one enroute as the Atlanta area, where I live, seems to be the furthest behind in 921 distribution and my local rep couldn't get one by going down to Atlanta in person.

--- WCS


----------



## Guest

Just got my 921 today from VSSLL.com! At last!


----------



## DonLandis

Guess I can now join in the fun! My 921 is on the shelf here waiting to be installed by me Saturday AM.
As an experienced beta and alpha tester of hardware and software for various companies, I plan to face a new challenge here with the 921. The challenge is quite different than testing to find what the 921 can't do. But rather, I plan to operate it is a way to avoid the gauntlet of listed isses as presented by all you eager beta buyin beta testers. It's more of a subjective test to see how difficult this receiver is to use as a consumer without issues. I did this for 2 hours at CES, only to walk away and witness another wiseguy come up who was quite familiar with this forum's bug list and execute an operation that rebooted the 921 on display that I had just had fun with for an hour, really giving the DVR a workout. I suppose, after a week or so of this, I may be able to explain to others who want the 921 but really have no intention of dealing with the problems how difficult this may be and whether they should consider waiting for future updates for stability. If I run across anything that gets me and feel my post of it would help I'll surely report it but I don't plan to document permutations of events that many of you are doing an excellent job of right now.


----------



## jmurphy644

Got my tracking number from Dish Depot today!!! Gee, I ordered on 2/15/2003 so I might still make it in under a year!!! :grin:


----------



## wcswett

jmurphy644 said:


> Got my tracking number from Dish Depot today!!! Gee, I ordered on 2/15/2003 so I might still make it in under a year!!! :grin:


You're in the same batch with me! 

--- WCS


----------



## jmurphy644

If you'll notice my last name (Murphy) you'll know that something must go wrong. In my case it's that I am heading out overseas next week. I predict a delivery about 30 minutes before I leave for the airport.


----------



## glp

Got my 921 Friday afternoon. Got it from EBAY paid $200.00 more but I have it. Took about an hour to hook up talk to CSR about activation and receive all software downloads (30). First impressions pretty positive HD is fantastic my wife thought I was nuts watching a travel special Friday night. SD a Little better with DVI hook up. Confused about picture aspects sometimes they look short and stubby. Other times long and lean. It has rebooted twice once while trying pip the other while watching SD HBO both times all grey screen with checks and x in the middle. Five minutes later came back on. Other than these 2 little anoyances the machine is quite amazing. Can't comment on OTA because don't want to put an antenna up just to find out it won't work. Most stations are over 55 miles away. Enjoy this board very much I have learned quite a bit both good and bad. All of you do a great job talking about this new and fascinating HD SAT connection. Keep up the good work
Very Satisfied 921 Owner
glp go pats :hurah:


----------



## srrobinson2

I got mine installed yesterday. The installer was going to put up a Superdish and give me a 510 throught the upgrade program in addition to the 921, but the 510 was out of stock (no big deal), and he needed a special bracket for the Superdish. So, we used my Dish 500 and disconnected both of my current receivers in order to feed the 921 the required two inputs.

The software did not start downloading until we did a smartcard reboot, and then it took about 40 minutes to complete. Once done, most functions started working properly. This is my first PVR, and OH BOY, WHAT I'VE BEEN MISSING!!!! This is way cool!!!!!!!!

I did find some bugs, so I'll list those in the support forum.

$1147 (includes tax and the $50 extra install fee for the special bracket, etc.)


----------



## JohnMI

I'm curious about tax. I see some people not paying tax for the 921 and others that have. Since they are retailer-only at this point, shouldn't everyone have to pay tax for it (provided that their state has tax, of course)?

- John...


----------



## Richard King

Sales tax has to be charged if the company selling the product has a "presence" in the state that the product is being delivered to. If selling to another state then it is up to the buyer to "declare" that they bought the product and submit the tax to their state. I don't think anyone ever "declares" that they bought products out of state.


----------



## JohnMI

Right, but the 921 is only available through retailers -- so everyone that is saying that they are getting them locally must be paying tax, correct? It is just the ones that did it via some internet dealer (say Dish Depot) that are avoiding tax, correct?

At first, I got the impression that even some local retailer buyers were not paying tax -- and it made me wonder if it was some odd Dish arrangement (i.e. they have Dish actually "selling" the product from another state and therefore the retailer not collecting sales tax) -- but, I'm thinking now that that isn't the case, of course...

Thanks.

- John...


----------



## wcswett

jgoggan said:


> Right, but the 921 is only available through retailers -- so everyone that is saying that they are getting them locally must be paying tax, correct?


Yes, correct.

Mine is coming from Dish Depot, which doesn't charge tax (out of state) or shipping. Mark charged me $999 total.

--- WCS


----------



## BobMurdoch

If you buy it from a local retailer or an internet retailer that has either a Brick and Mortar building in your state, a sales office in your state, or a distribution facility of some kind you will be charged tax.

If you are dealing with a business that does not, then they are exempt for now. Im surprised lawmakers extended the date on this as they are losing billions to online sales. Just beware, because if you get audited, they will go line by line in your checking account and credit cards looking for purchases you didn't pay tax on. They did this for our business which gets audited by the state tax boys regularly, I don't know about individual taxpayers (but since .5% get audited right now, you are probably safe unless you do something REALLY blatant on your tax return or have a occupation that they like to audit a lot (waitresses and other tip based income is looked at heavily)

With governments such as New York, California, and New Jersey all being strapped for cash, I'm surprised they haven't figured this one out yet.


----------



## DenR

wcswett said:


> Yes, correct.
> 
> Mine is coming from Dish Depot, which doesn't charge tax (out of state) or shipping. Mark charged me $999 total.
> 
> --- WCS


wcswett,

Do you know where on the list you were? Mark told me I was in the top sixty and I have not yet heard from him.


----------



## BobMurdoch

They are still only trickling them out a handful at a time so I would be surprised if Mark has seen #20 this early.....


----------



## the_tx_dude

I will have my 921 from a Houston retailer tomorrow at 7am and be watching by 9am hopefully.


----------



## fjerina

I really like my 921 but I have a question??? I haven't tried this myself but can you, once you record some programs, take the 921 to a different location to play back the programs WITHOUT being connected to the satellites???


----------



## psb1013

So far my 921 works great except for one strange glitch: when using the component output, the picture suddenly has a greenish tint (the reds disappears) after about 5 minutes....it goes back to normal by pushing the SD/HD button several times, but the problem appears again several minutes later. By utilizing the DVI output instead of component, I no longer have this problem.....very strange.


----------



## JohnMI

Interesting. Do you have a DVD player that you can connect to the same Component output and confirm that it only occurs when connected to the 921? Just to be sure...

- John...


----------



## psb1013

Yes, this problem is only confined to the 921.



jgoggan said:


> Interesting. Do you have a DVD player that you can connect to the same Component output and confirm that it only occurs when connected to the 921? Just to be sure...
> 
> - John...


----------



## 4HiMarks

I got mine hooked up on Wed. 1/21 just in time to watch the Md-Duke game on ESPN-HD. Fantastic picture, too bad I couldn't say the same for the final score.

-Chris


----------



## the_tx_dude

Activated 921 yesterday. Has the blue line problem mentioned elsewhere but the thin blue lines are only noticeable on dark scenes. IU-Purdue b-ball game on ESPN-HD looked great and so did other HD channels. Wife complains about the clarity of the SD channels with the 921 and says they are not as good as with the 508. She says this regardless of whether operating in normal, strech, or zoom modes. I agree and am wondering if it could be due to conversion to 1080i for output on Mitsu WS 65-411? I am going to play with it tonite and see if I can't get a better SD picture. Otherwise the 921 is working fine with timers, etc. Do not have the OTA antenna hooked up yet but hoping to this weekend. The Winegard that we got does not get quite high enough signal strength to get all the channels at 40 miles away.


----------



## JohnMI

For various reasons, I have been in contact with someone in the Executive Office over the past couple of weeks. I was informed by them today that there is an official "hold on the sale of the 921 at this time." Anyone have any information on this? Any retailers have any "hold" request from Dish as far as new orders of the 921?

Basically, they were saying that until the hold was lifted, even they couldn't get a 921 out to anyone...

- John...


----------



## kstevens

That's funny, Dish Depot sent 2 out today.


Ken


----------



## JohnMI

kstevens said:


> That's funny, Dish Depot sent 2 out today.


Getting in and shipping out two that have been ordered for weeks or even months isn't really the same thing and doesn't indicate whether or not Dish might have issued a "hold" on the SALE of the 921s during the past 24-48 hours...

- John...


----------



## Richard King

If there is a hold, which I doubt, it is probably a hold on Dish from shipping to dealers. They can't put a hold on dealers from shipping product that they already have or that is in transit to them unless they buy it back from the dealers.


----------



## wcswett

DenR said:


> wcswett,
> 
> Do you know where on the list you were? Mark told me I was in the top sixty and I have not yet heard from him.


I was in the top 20 and my 921 arrived today... woo hoo! 

He sent out an update email today, so if you are on his email list you should have gotten that. It had a total of 139 people on it. Since it was mostly by order number, and I don't know my order number, I couldn't tell you if I was on it or if it omitted all shipped units.

--- WCS


----------



## wcswett

jgoggan said:


> For various reasons, I have been in contact with someone in the Executive Office over the past couple of weeks. I was informed by them today that there is an official "hold on the sale of the 921 at this time." Anyone have any information on this? Any retailers have any "hold" request from Dish as far as new orders of the 921? Basically, they were saying that until the hold was lifted, even they couldn't get a 921 out to anyone...


That's very interesting. Maybe it explains why when I activated my 921 this evening the CSR asked me where I bought it. I've never had a CSR ask me that before.

--- WCS


----------



## Bogney

wcswett said:


> Since it was mostly by order number, and I don't know my order number, I couldn't tell you if I was on it or if it omitted all shipped units.


I was in the top 10 and my already received order number was not on that list.


----------



## wcswett

Bogney said:


> I was in the top 10 and my already received order number was not on that list.


Makes sense. So he's updating everyone's standing as he ships units, and he has 139 more orders to ship.

--- WCS


----------



## Mike Russell

At the time I ordered mine last year on the 2/27,I think I was in the 60's on the list. Mark told me monday I was 35 to 40 behind.I was hopeing to get before the Daytona 500.


----------



## jmurphy644

I was in the top 20 on the original list at DishDepot and mine arrived Yesterday. It's great and although I am sure I will ucover some glitches eventually it seems pretty good at 1.45 to me so far. I have done a fair amount of recording on OTA and HD sat. Overall, count me a happy camper!! I now have a 721 and a 921 so I can record 4 things at once :hurah:


----------



## jsa_usenet

Thanks to the good service at The American Home Theatre Company,
and our good friend Richard King, I'm now the proud owner of a Dish 921.

Although it absolutely pains me to admit it, I haven't been able to open
the box yet. I'm hoping to find a moment tomorrow when the kids won't
jump all over me to crack it open and report how it goes.

How exciting!

-jay


----------



## BobMurdoch

jsa_usenet said:


> Thanks to the good service at The American Home Theatre Company,
> and our good friend Richard King, I'm now the proud owner of a Dish 921.
> 
> Although it absolutely pains me to admit it, I haven't been able to open
> the box yet. I'm hoping to find a moment tomorrow when the kids won't
> jump all over me to crack it open and report how it goes.
> 
> How exciting!
> 
> -jay


Ah, I'm glad to see Richard got his next batch in. Not only is our dear Richard a prodigious poster, but he came through and hooked a few of us up quickly with the few units he was able to secure, while putting up with tons of impatient emails on my part.

Jay, welcome to the 921 Crash Test Dummies club. Just plan on three hours to hook up your baby as it will take 30 minutes to unpack and wire into the average A/V system (go with the DVI if you can, it works great, although the Component Video picture looks great as well.) You will spend the next hour waiting for the software update to take. I ran check switch and then tried getting the download, but couldn't get it to work. Then the advanced CSR had me reset the software to factory default from the menu and then turn it off. About a minute later the download started. Your guide data will only go out two shows on each channel, but that will be fixed on the first overnight download. Call and add the HD Pak and CBS-HD (CBS-HD has to be added, it doesn't come on automatically, but doesn't cost anything if you already have an O & O CBS channel in your local channel package). If you alrady had an HD receiver, the recording capability will intrigue you. If you have NEVER had an HD receiver (like me) you will be blown away by the picture (try HDNet and DiscoveryHD first). Have fun.


----------



## Todd G.

I ordered a 921 from a small local retailer here in Charlottesville, Va
Jan. 23rd and it was here on Jan 28th. I have seen a few of the bugs listed
but love this unit.

Todd


----------



## sleepy hollow

I just wanted to report the following:

I have had my 921 since 1/16/04. It has been sitting in my house as I await an upgrade to my dish to get a second feed to the 921 location. That is schedule for 2/12. 

After reading about the blue line problem, I sent an email to the address Mark posted about that problem. Basically, I reasoned that I have 2 weeks more to wait before I can use the 921. If it has the problem, then I certainly would regret wasting this time when it could have been used to get the unit fixed. I asked Dish if there was some way to tell if the unit had the problem without actually installing it. If not, what could we do to use the 2 weeks productively?

Within 1/2 hour I received a call from Dish and they have offered to ship the unit back to them so they can check it out. I was assured it will be back in plenty of time for the install. All I have to do is get it to FedEx (3 miles away from my house). Not a dime out of my pocket (not even gas, since I need to run an errand in that direction anyway).

Say what you want, I think these folks have top notch customer service. One can claim such problems should never be allowed to happen in the first place, but real, actual high quality customer service occurs when you act to take care of problems once you know you have them. They get an A+ in my book. No other monthly service I buy, be it land line phone service, cell phone service, electric power, internet, credit card company, my bank, my health insurance company, or whatever treats me as well. They always try to help. They are always respectful. They are always sincere. They are always available and responsive. I have never been frustrated or disappointed when I have talked with them on the phone. 

Maybe I am just lucky, but I cannot ask for any more. 

Just one man's view.


----------



## JohnMI

Well -- please do keep us informed of when you ship it off and when you get one back...

On a side note, there is a big difference between talking to the techs that you would have spoken with and talking to a normal CSR that is all many of us can get for many things. I have commonly been "frustrated" and "disappointed" when talking with a CSR on the phone. I think that is completely another side of Dish compared to the techs that you likely would have been dealing with in this very specific 921 situation. Normally, it simply doesn't work that way. Unfortunately, the 921 situation appears to be the exception, not the rule -- when dealing with Dish on the phone...

- John...


----------



## BobMurdoch

sleepy hollow said:


> Say what you want, I think these folks have top notch customer service. One can claim such problems should never be allowed to happen in the first place, but real, actual high quality customer service occurs when you act to take care of problems once you know you have them. They get an A+ in my book. No other monthly service I buy, be it land line phone service, cell phone service, electric power, internet, credit card company, my bank, my health insurance company, or whatever treats me as well. They always try to help. They are always respectful. They are always sincere. They are always available and responsive. I have never been frustrated or disappointed when I have talked with them on the phone.
> 
> Maybe I am just lucky, but I cannot ask for any more.
> 
> Just one man's view.


Make that two men. Yes, I've had problems with receivers. Sometimes I wish they would just finally wake up and throw some extra resources at the Tech Dept. to help them deal with these problems faster, but I can't fault their treatment of me.

In May 2000, I got two receivers for free due to the Digital Dynamite plan. Everything installed cost me $99 bucks including an SW64 switch. November 2000 I get a Dishplayer added for $225. Hilarity ensues. Numerous software difficulties, but when it works the PVR is a revelation. Like it so much I get another Dishplayer in April 2001 when they discontinue the Dishplayer AND they discontinue the PVR Fee for anyone who buys one of the last units. I think I paid $149 or so for that. September 2002 I upgrade to a 721 using the last of my SW64 ports. Two shows at once, woo hoo! Move one of the Dishplayers to my son's room. My original 4900 and 2700 are sitting in my closet (Price Protection to June 2003, free warranty for all my receivers, and no extra receiver fee makes keeping it on the DHP equivalent a no brainer) . July 2003, 721 Tuner starts hiccuping. Uh oh. 721 may be beginning to have the Tuner failure. No problem, they send a replacement for free, no shipping charge, and the return postage is paid for. November 2003, I upgrade my bedroom receiver to a 510 for free in exchang for promising to stay put for two years with E*. I decide to move my 2nd Dishplayer to my daughter's room. Oops. No more ports left. No problem, E* will GIVE me another SW64 and all new splitters and cabling along with installation to make it work. I also return the two dormant receivers, and get on teh Regular Plan and off DHP as my price protection expired in June. January 2004, (hallelujah chorus) 921 arrives. HiDef comes to the Murdoch Chateau I call NorthSpoon (SouthFork was taken in Texas). Minor hiccup during initial install, but then much joy throughout the homefront.

That sums up my experience. A few calls to E* Tech Support, but nothing ever severe. A 721 went bad, but they had a replacement in my hands within days. I'm sure they have a small army fixing refurb units, but I can't argue with the cost. Some of the CSRs are clueless, but the company has always done right by me on keeping me up and running. Only down thing I can say is that they still haven't got the NFL or Baseball packages, and the YES network fiasco here that keeps me from signing up another half dozen Yankee fans in my area. Otherwise, I'm happy.


----------



## wcswett

jmurphy644 said:


> I was in the top 20 on the original list at DishDepot and mine arrived Yesterday. It's great and although I am sure I will ucover some glitches eventually it seems pretty good at 1.45 to me so far. I have done a fair amount of recording on OTA and HD sat. Overall, count me a happy camper!! I now have a 721 and a 921 so I can record 4 things at once :hurah:


I have only had one glitch in two days of use. When I used the PVR button to access and join a program in the middle of being recorded, I chose the "Start Over" option that should have put me into timeslip mode, viewing the program from the beginning (like on my 721). Instead it brought up the program "live". Fortunately, I'm not an OTA user, so won't suffer those slings and arrows.

--- WCS


----------



## jsa_usenet

Again thanks to Richard King and American Home Theatre Company, the 921 is live in my livingroom.

A few points on the process:

- The install was challenging only in that the planets had to align for all my cables to fit. That's a lot of cables!

- I plugged it in, and from the start I've been on the DVI port. I checked to make sure the component out worked, which it does, but I'm sticking with DVI connected to my Sony 50WE610.

- First thing I did was check switch. Worked like a charm.

- Next I force updated the software. Took about ten minutes. It rebooted itself while I wasn't looking and was back onto the remote help channel.

- Set up the display for 1080i only and 16:9.

- Called Dish. Told them give me the whole shebang (at least for now). Five minutes later I had all the HD there is on Dish. 

- Now I check the preview guide. Seems to all be there! I thought you guys told me I'd have to wait 24 hours!? Guide is moving lightning fast.

- Trying to find a good HD demo proved to be a trick, however... The content was decent but not amazing. I'm on 148, not 65, so I assume that's why there isn't a demo channel? I finally tuned into Discover HD and haven't changed it since. Kids are watching crocodiles right now.

- I haven't tried to scan my digital off-air channels yet. It's plugged into my Terk which is about 1/4 mile from the huge television tower in San Francisco. If this thing doesn't pick everything up, we'll assume it's busted. Leave that for tonight. Any recommendations?

- Tried transparent preview guide thing. Lame. Turned it off.

- Recorded crocodiles without a glitch!  

I'll keep you all posted, but so far, smooth sailing. The $100/month
price tag seems out of control, but we'll just keep it there for a month and decide what is worth it.

-j


----------



## Richard King

Enjoy Jay!!  Glad to hear things are going well.


----------



## beemer58

Found mine on ebay. There are dealers still selling them there. Setup went smoothly. Scanned all locals ok. Local analogs scanned but not with correct info. Had to manually rename. Don't know if I have the blue line problem yet since my 60xbr hasn't arrived yet.(over a month waiting). Awesome unit. Have seen the gray screen with x crash when scanning channels on the menu. It records local digitals ok. Can't wait to see HDTV...


----------



## sleepy hollow

jgoggan said:


> Well -- please do keep us informed of when you ship it off and when you get one back...
> 
> - John...


Well, I sent the uninstalled 921 back via Fedex on Saturday morning to have them check it out. I happened to be home today because of the ice storm, and at about 10 am, doggone if Fedex did not deliver my 921 back to me. No indicatons of what they did or did not do, but it came from CO. I guess we'll find out next week. That sure was fast.

Must be a quick check/fix and/or there must not be many being sent back.


----------



## BroncoFan7

Got my 921 delivered and installed yesterday! Thanks to this forum, understanding the 45 minute wait, and just leaving it alone to do it's reboots etc., I was up and running as fast as the E* CSR could enter my info. I have to say it's a wonderful unit with MUCH potential! Being an original 501 user, the recording is nothing new and thrilling, but PQ ROCKS! Only bad thing I see so far is the OTA HD tuner needs more work. My Sony widescreen has an internal tuner, and I can lock in EVERY station in Denver (Minus ABC affiliate, but nobody can outside of the parking lot there.)
but it wont lock in to anything consistantly. I realize I am the 1000th person to mention this on this forum, but it really is my only complaint.


----------



## gsalem

On Saturday morning, I pulled a second feed from the dish and re-alligned it in less 
than 15 minutes.

I had my DVI cable ready, and the machine installed (replacing a 501) in another
15 minutes. 

Turned on and booted, called Dish to activate. 2 hours later, after a long download,
a check switch, and 2 re-boots I have a complete HD PVR system. 

I put the Terk on top of my San Francisco house, pulled the RG6 for the antenna and
started to play with the OTA. Most stations came in with about the same quality
I had had with my Samsung set-top box. 

Thus far, I've run into these bugs (that are already known):
1. OTA tuner goes haywire if it loses a signal (or tunes to channel 38 in SF)
2. OTA tuner cannot add Channel 45 in SF (no PSIP)
3. When recording an OTA, you cannot activate another tuner w/o stopping 
recording.
4. The aspect ratios for full 16x9 are incorrect and can even overshoot the screen.

I just saw this bug and I'll see if others reported it:
5. When tuned to an audio channel for a while, video out stops and requires
a reboot to get it back. 

I know my partner thinks I am a fool for spending over $1000 to replace my
501 with something so buggy. But the quality of the HD and a DVI input makes
the pill a little less bitter.


----------



## Rogueone

Picked up my 921 today, having it properly installed Thursday if the sw34's are in. At the moment, i've had to steal the connection to my 301 to feed the 2nd tuner, but it is working.

And oh my! I've had OTA HD for a year, and always thought as good as it looked, something was lackingin the quality compared to the showrooms (which always show DiscHD). Now I know why 

Obviously the networks are not using real HD equipment to record, or something causes a graininess, because when I hit the DiscHD channel after getting everything upgraded, my eyes about popped out of my head! I have NEVER seen my TV look so beautiful. It was like looking thru glass. And then HDNet I think, was playing a Travis somebody concert. All I can say is WOW! It looked THAT good  But put it on normal HD like HBO etc., not quite right. I recorded Daredevil tonight, and caught a portion with a close up of Michael Clark Duncan in a very nice striped grey suite. The best I can describe it is, the picture didn't seem to be able to lock in on what color each pixel should have been within the suite, and it was, well, snowy? or sparkly? Made me wonder if HBO just upconverts a progressive DVD signal to HD? 

But so far recordings have worked off of both tuners, but I don't have the OTA working properly as yet, waiting on a roof antenna to be mounted. Did get 1 crash, by getting into/out of/back into the Guide too quickly. 

But overall impressions are, fantastic. I love the new guide and menu system, and being able to keep watching while in them. I do wonder about the output, as my old 501, when I told it to display with a 16x9 aspect ratio, it always filled my screen. So far, the 921 only does this for HD programming. Everything else has been in 4x3, and the different modes just make it look worse, so I'm leaving it this way for now. 

Will be looking forward to many improvements going forward


----------



## guruka

Rogueone said:


> Obviously the networks are not using real HD equipment to record, or something causes a graininess, because when I hit the DiscHD channel after getting everything upgraded, my eyes about popped out of my head! I have NEVER seen my TV look so beautiful. It was like looking thru glass. And then HDNet I think, was playing a Travis somebody concert. All I can say is WOW! It looked THAT good  But put it on normal HD like HBO etc., not quite right. I recorded Daredevil tonight, and caught a portion with a close up of Michael Clark Duncan in a very nice striped grey suite. The best I can describe it is, the picture didn't seem to be able to lock in on what color each pixel should have been within the suite, and it was, well, snowy? or sparkly? Made me wonder if HBO just upconverts a progressive DVD signal to HD?


Well that's what 24fps film looks like when it's transferred to 1080i 30fps digital video. DiscoveryHD is mostly direct to digital video with HD cameras. That's why it's so eye-poppingly gorgeous. Showtime and HBO are either 480i video upconverted to 1080i or film transferred to 1080i. I still think it looks as good or better than 480p film transfers on DVD.

.....G


----------



## BarryO

Rogueone said:


> Obviously the networks are not using real HD equipment to record, or something causes a graininess, because when I hit the DiscHD channel after getting everything upgraded, my eyes about popped out of my head! I have NEVER seen my TV look so beautiful. It was like looking thru glass. And then HDNet I think, was playing a Travis somebody concert. All I can say is WOW! It looked THAT good  But put it on normal HD like HBO etc., not quite right. I recorded Daredevil tonight, and caught a portion with a close up of Michael Clark Duncan in a very nice striped grey suite. The best I can describe it is, the picture didn't seem to be able to lock in on what color each pixel should have been within the suite, and it was, well, snowy? or sparkly? Made me wonder if HBO just upconverts a progressive DVD signal to HD?


It's called "film grain", dude. It's supposed to be there. The cimenatographer intentionally sets the film exposure to show varying amounts of grain, depending on the artisitc intent.

Any film school graduate would consider your remarks to be that of an unwashed philistine.  Somewhat akin to those who prefer photographs to the work of French Impressionists.

Hey, I think DiscoveryHD looks better, too. But there is nothing worng with the film-to-HD process, or HBO-HD. The HD medium in this case is just showing the film exacly how it looks, exactly "as the director intended" (to borrow the phrase the OAR zealots love so much), artsy-fartsy film grain and all.


----------



## Rogueone

so you're saying some idiot film maker wants his film to look like crap on my TV?  (that's a joke of course)

well, that definitely explains it to some extent. I've noticed the same type of not quite perfect picture quality when watching TV, like CSI. There's times the picture looks great, then there's times, especially when there are large sections of white on the screen, where the white area is very noticably not solid. If anything, it's annoying, though I could see it being intentional. 

Guess that's one of the drawbacks of having a 65" TV, it makes little minor issues like those too damned obvious. I would like to go rent the DareDevil dvd again and compare it side by side to the HBO broadcast though, as I'm curious if it's noticeably better or not. Watching it had the feel of watching a dvd that was simply upconverted, much as would happen if I were able to buy the Samsung HD931 player, but can't because i don't have dvi to take advangtage of the 1080i output.

None of that difference would be because one channel has a higher bit rate than another is it? someone at work mentioned the compression etc., and that made me think about the different bit rates the channels use.


----------



## ggw2000

Rogueone said:


> so you're saying some idiot film maker wants his film to look like crap on my TV?  (that's a joke of course)
> 
> well, that definitely explains it to some extent. I've noticed the same type of not quite perfect picture quality when watching TV, like CSI. There's times the picture looks great, then there's times, especially when there are large sections of white on the screen, where the white area is very noticably not solid. If anything, it's annoying, though I could see it being intentional.
> 
> Guess that's one of the drawbacks of having a 65" TV, it makes little minor issues like those too damned obvious. I would like to go rent the DareDevil dvd again and compare it side by side to the HBO broadcast though, as I'm curious if it's noticeably better or not. Watching it had the feel of watching a dvd that was simply upconverted, much as would happen if I were able to buy the Samsung HD931 player, but can't because i don't have dvi to take advangtage of the 1080i output.
> 
> None of that difference would be because one channel has a higher bit rate than another is it? someone at work mentioned the compression etc., and that made me think about the different bit rates the channels use.


Could buy a Bravo D1! It outputs 1080i over both DVI and Component!!! :hurah:


----------



## topom

ggw2000 said:


> Could buy a Bravo D1! It outputs 1080i over both DVI and Component!!! :hurah:


True, as do the Momitsu DVD-V880 and the Shinco-EVD8830 (see Hivizone.com). However, they are pretty poorly constructed and give marginal performance even on 1080i output (and the 480i/480p output are terrible - at least on the Momitsu). I owned the Momitsu, and the picture was quite crisp on my 92" front projection system (Sony VPL-VW10HT), but the colors were quite washed out. Furthermore, the remote was unusable (buttons worked about 20% of time).

Further research led me to Projector Systems PD1100 dvd player which is designed with custom firmware to meet your exact display resolution (crtcinema.com). It is quite a bit more pricey, and basic in features, but I have owned this since December (merry Xmas to me!) and I am stunned every time I use it. It makes even the worst DVD transfers look awesome. Just FYI.


----------



## JohnMI

I asked this in an 811 thread, but never saw an answer...

Can someone with a 921 tell me if it can tune OTA digital channel 1 (i.e. "1.1")? or is it like the 811 and cannot because it uses "channel 1" for something else such as alternate inputs?

Note that I know that digital Channel 1 should not be used -- I've actually argued that rather extensively recently -- I simply want to know if those improper broadcasters are going to be a problem for 921 users also -- or just the 811 users for now.

- John...


----------



## Guest

Yes, I just had a 921 installed on 2/6/04. My first impression is that it produces a crystal clear picture, but it still has problems with local dtv channels. A couple of times now when I've been changing channels (from local to satellite I think), the receiver reboots itself. I thought this was supposed to be corrected in the latest software update (L145)?

Also, I'm still trying to get used to the screen formats. The receiver doesn't seem to want to let me change it back to normal format when I'm not watching an HD program. It leavse the black left and right bars even in the normal format? Maybe I need to learn some more about which format to use depending on the format being broadcast? If anyone has some useful information about using the correct format, please let me know. I don't like the bars because my TV manual doesn't recommend it because the lines may burn into the screen over time.


----------



## metallicafreak

I had mine installed 1/25 and have only had 2 inconveniences todate. 1 reboot during the superbowl recording (THAT ONE REALLY SUCKED!!!!). I immediatly switched over to my 6000 that I kept in place just incase this happened. The second was a reboot during a recording that I did not realize until I watched it a few days later. That's it. Note: I do not watch OTA at all.
One thing I immediatly noticed when I switched to the 6000 was how much friggin better the DVI pic from the 921 was than the component 6000(both 'calibrated')
FREAK!


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## fjerina

guruka,

I cannot send you a private message (don't have the priviledges yet) but wanted to ask you a question. I have a PVR 921 and I live in Albuquerque. I love the 921 except for the OTA capabilities which have some problems (which I assume most will be worked out in future software releases). When I have some glitches with my unit many times I lose my channel 13 (KRQE) digital channel 16. I have to manually remove it and then manually re-add it to my list of digital stations. Are you receiving KRQE wherever you are and is this ever happenning to you? Thanks, Fred.


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## Mark Lamutt

Fred, I've fixed your account. You listed a AOL email address, and obviously never got the registration email. Please make sure that you have your email set to NOT filter out emails from DBSTalk.


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## guruka

fjerina said:


> guruka,
> 
> I cannot send you a private message (don't have the priviledges yet) but wanted to ask you a question. I have a PVR 921 and I live in Albuquerque. I love the 921 except for the OTA capabilities which have some problems (which I assume most will be worked out in future software releases). When I have some glitches with my unit many times I lose my channel 13 (KRQE) digital channel 16. I have to manually remove it and then manually re-add it to my list of digital stations. Are you receiving KRQE wherever you are and is this ever happenning to you? Thanks, Fred.


Hi Fred. Welcome to the DBSTalk forum!

This is not specific to KRQE. This is a general problem with OTA and the 921. If you add back any OTA DT station, they will all appear again. This is supposed to be fixed in the next software update due in a week or so.

I receive KRQE just fine here in Espanola, over 50 miles from Sandia peak. KOAT also passes ABC network HD in 720p for much of it's evening programming and live feeds as well. PBS-HD on 005-1 is magnificent, isn't it? The schedule for PBS-HD programming is here: http://www.knmetv.org/digital/dtv-schedule.php3

.....G


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## topom

Well, I posted a msg last week that I was fortunate enough to get one of the last available 921's (New Mexico Satellite - somehow got 2 in when everyone else's supply was frozen). Well, I got the unit today via UPS and had it running within an hour of unpacking - no issues - smooth sailing.

I LOVE THIS UNIT!

I know about all of the potential pitfalls from reading this forum daily, and I was a little hesitant to find out what I was gonna get. However, this unit has exceeded my expectations. I have been recording HD off satellite, pausing , rewinding other HD satellite and watching OTA HD with absolutely no issues!

I an not so naive that I expect that I wont encounter some issues with more usage, but for the majority of what I will be needing from this unit, I am delighted. 

-The PQ is excellent
-The Menus are far improved over the 6000u
-The Guide is lightning fast and is more visually appealing than the 6000u
-Plus, I was pleasantly surprised with the weight and size ( had imagined a behemoth, and it is a very workable size)

All I can say to all those sitting on the fence is: Once you can get one, do it!

**Happy to be an early adopter** :righton:


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## sleepy hollow

I have to say that I am a very happy camper. 

I had the 921 sitting in my house for over 3 weeks waiting for another drop to be added to my legacy dish setup as part of a DVR 510 and "must carry" upgrade. During that time as the blue line problem became known and I asked Dish about how to tell if I had a bad one before installation, Dish directed me to send my unit back so they could confirm that it was ok. Dead time used wisely it turns out.

Well, the installer came at about 4 pm and left at about 8:30pm last night. My hats off to him for being incredibly tenacious and getting us through the minefield of minor difficulties we had getting the 921 up and running. Took us about an hour longer than it might have otherwise, and I will not bore you with the details, because they are really moot at this point and had mainly to do with getting the second feed working properly.

But once we got the checkswitch to run ok, we were cruising. Turns out that when I sent the unit back to have them check it for the "blue line" problem, they loaded the s/w, so I did not have to wait for the download. We just went right to the demo channel and then to authorization. 

Hey, this RCA/Thomson monitor is splendid! I happen to have bought the same one that is part of the Dish HD package/promo (only mine has integrated prog scan DVD). For the money, I think it is just fantastic. We watched the Rangers hockey game on ESPNHD, and it was unreal. Like being at the rink! And I have not watched hockey for years. 

I have not even begun to learn all of the 921 features and I can see that the aspect ratios will be fun for awhile, but we'll get through it "somehow." 

Man, many out there moaning are simply way over-exaggerating the problems as far as I can tell. No question, this baby is sweet, and now I feel privileged to be just a bit ahead of the TIVO-SD crowd, at least for as long as it lasts.

Most importantly, I have finally arrived at my station in life (pun intended). 

Seriously, this thing is just fine. Dish needs to continue to work out the bugs, and I am confident they will, but they can count me as another satisfied customer. They took care of me the whole way. 

This is a gas! (and the 510 is very cool too, by the way!)


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## BobMurdoch

Don't go losing your head now. (sorry, with a handle like Sleepy Hollow I had to do it)

HEY! No fair missing out on that fun 45 minute long "is it or isn't downloading OK" nerve wracking period. 

Welcome to the 921 club. Not as scary as the trolls would have you believe, no? The lightning fast guide scrolling was a pleasant surprise. Don't forget to record lots of DiscoveryHD and HDNet programming as that will REALLY show off the unit to friends and family.


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## sleepy hollow

BobMurdoch said:


> Don't go losing your head now. (sorry, with a handle like Sleepy Hollow I had to do it)
> 
> HEY! No fair missing out on that fun 45 minute long "is it or isn't downloading OK" nerve wracking period.
> 
> Welcome to the 921 club. Not as scary as the trolls would have you believe, no? The lightning fast guide scrolling was a pleasant surprise. Don't forget to record lots of DiscoveryHD and HDNet programming as that will REALLY show off the unit to friends and family.


Good one, Bob.

Actually, I was born in Sleepy Hollow which is why I use the handle. My grandfather built a house and then an apartment building (with his own hands) about 200 yards from site of the famous bridge where Ichabod supposedly encountered the galloping guillotined ghoul. Lots of sentimental value in the name for me. He was also a professional wrestler in the 1920's believe it or not - went by the name of Kid Tarzan. Quite an interesting guy. But enough about that.

Regarding your download comment, actually the extra hour fiddling with the new drop about evens out the download wait time. So I did not get off easy on that. But I did not have to endure both, that is true. We were ecstatic when we go to skip that step.

But, you are absolutely right that the tone of the complaints of the "trolls", as you so fondly referred to them, borders on - shall I say - hysteria?

Can't wait to play this weekend. We are only about 12-15 miles from all of the OTA broadcast towers in DC so should have some fun with that, too.

It's gonna be a great valentine's day with my new girl. Her measurements are 9 - 2 - 1. (Don't tell my wife! She'll get the wrong idea. I guess I'd better record some chick flicks, huh.)


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## BobMurdoch

Record Trading Spaces off of DiscoveryHD if you want her to get "onboard" with your new purchase. 

My wife was floored by the textures she was able to see while watching the show in HD. Where before she only saw colors, she could now see that a fabric was suede vs. cotton, etc. Paige, Laurie, and Gwen don't look half bad either...... And you can't REALLY appreciate the trainwrecks that Hildi creates until you see them in all their HD "glory".


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## doujah

Ive owned a 921 since the weekend before superbowl sunday. Since then I have experienced almost every known bug except the blue line. I must admit it can become frustrating (To my wife) but as far as im concerned im happy with the unit. My only gripe would be that I cant name my OA recordings to something other than what is posted. Ive have successfully been able to record many shows over the air wich had timers set. I only experienced a problem one time when I was viewing an OA channel and the timer did not launch, the problem is obvious. One wierd problem I was having was that I set the PIP window to an OA channel and I began to recieve allot of strange things such as the PIP window not disappearing and displaying a green sortof MATRIX like display. My system has rebooted many many times while surfing cahnnels viewing a recorded program viewing the guide so on and so forth, but im back in 5 minutes or less, One thing I would like to know is how can I begin to archive some HD to dvd-ive noticed some of you here are able to do this. Please explain to me what is needed in order to achieve this. Ive been toying with the idea of bulding a HTPC but if i can accomplish this by connecting the device to a dvd burner and just burn on the fly and then go and edit later I would be happy. Any info is appreciated, Like I said though the unit has made me happy and the problems dont bother me at all if I loose some time do to a reboot then so be it, on the other hand discovering all of the (Bugs on your own at least makes you know the limitations of the device and what not to do.


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## wcswett

doujah said:


> One thing I would like to know is how can I begin to archive some HD to dvd-ive noticed some of you here are able to do this. Please explain to me what is needed in order to achieve this.


I archive to DVD using the s-video and RCA audio outputs from the 921 to a Panasonic DMR-HS2 DVD-RAM/DVD-R recorder. Right now, with the aspect ratios a little screwy, I'd only recommend recording downrezzed HD material (16:9). In "normal" mode in SD on the 921 what you get on DVD is anamorphic wide screen recordings that you can stretch to full 16:9 on playback (the 6000 doesn't do this, and I like having it on the 921). None of the other SD modes work right and each cuts off part of the picture. In "normal" mode SD is squished into the 4:3 area ALONG WITH the black sidebars. There is no acceptable mode right now for getting just the 4:3 content of SD channels on DVD. I'm saving some SD recordings on the 921's hard disk awaiting an aspect ratio fix before I offload them to DVD. I hope the "fix" doesn't eliminate the anamorphic option for 16:9 content.

--- WCS


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## borfhead

I've had my unit since the end of Jan. and have been pretty happy with it, except for this week (seems to be ever since L146) that I have now missed 4 recordings. Luckily for me (and DISH that I'm not TOO pissed) they were recordings on WCBS-DT that were on 3 hours early for me (being on west coast) and was able to watch the shows live on KCBS-DT. If they can fix that, I can live with all the other quirks....


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## BobMurdoch

I also had a problem with my only CBS-HD recording this week (King of Queens).

Do we have a new bug with CBS-HD recordings off 61.5? Anyone else having problems recording CBS-HD?


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## wcswett

BobMurdoch said:


> I also had a problem with my only CBS-HD recording this week (King of Queens). Do we have a new bug with CBS-HD recordings off 61.5? Anyone else having problems recording CBS-HD?


My CSI recording failed to fire last night. I was watching a PVR program at the time and noticed that the record light didn't go on, so was able to cancel out of PVR and tune in to CSI manually.

--- WCS


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## eldoda

I got my 921 Friday and installed it on Sunday. Very happy with the unit, one spontaneous reboot in the middle of a movie, not recording at the time. I have noticed the blue line on some of the sd channels. It found nine off air stations in the Sacramento area and I am about 90 miles from transmitters.


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## JohnMI

eldoda said:


> It found nine off air stations in the Sacramento area and I am about 90 miles from transmitters.


Nice! May I ask what type and size of antenna you are using?

- John...


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## eldoda

jgoggan said:


> Nice! May I ask what type and size of antenna you are using?
> 
> - John...


Winegard PR-4400. Very easy to set up. I also purchased the corresponding pre-amp.

David


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## Guest

I purchased a 921 on ebay on Jan 26 from a dish dealer in PA. I payed extra for insurance and 2 day shipping so I could watch the Super Bowl in HD. After several frantic calls to the dealer finally got it late on Jan 30. I had a local dealer come out and do all the upgrades to my dish 500 so I was already to install.

After several attemps and calls to tech support it was detemined that the deck could not read the smart card and was pronounced DOA. Dish said that I would have to return it to the dealer to be replaced. I called the dealer and an RMA was set up so I could get a replacement and I shipped him back the original deck.

Long long story short, after 3 weeks of "its on the dock, call us in a few days to get your tracking number" to "its on hold we'll let you know". After talking to the Exec office so many times they know me by my first name. I am now the proud owner of the most expensive EXTRA 501 hookup in history!

Hope the 921 is as good as you say it is, or at least hoping someday i get to judge for myself.


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## JohnMI

Is that normal for returns? Or only because it was DOA? I mean, if I buy something from an online dealer and it dies after a month -- I wouldn't have to send it back to the dealer, right? I could have Dish replace it directly, yes?

- John...


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## Guest

Got a call Saturday night from the exec office (man am I impressed!), They said that the 921 was in its final stage of QC and I can expect my deck with in the next 2 weeks. Will post how it goes with the new one.


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## Guest

AZuser said:


> I purchased a 921 on ebay on Jan 26 from a dish dealer in PA. I payed extra for insurance and 2 day shipping so I could watch the Super Bowl in HD. After several frantic calls to the dealer finally got it late on Jan 30. I had a local dealer come out and do all the upgrades to my dish 500 so I was already to install.
> 
> After several attemps and calls to tech support it was detemined that the deck could not read the smart card and was pronounced DOA. Dish said that I would have to return it to the dealer to be replaced. I called the dealer and an RMA was set up so I could get a replacement and I shipped him back the original deck.
> 
> Long long story short, after 3 weeks of "its on the dock, call us in a few days to get your tracking number" to "its on hold we'll let you know". After talking to the Exec office so many times they know me by my first name. I am now the proud owner of the most expensive EXTRA 501 hookup in history!
> 
> Hope the 921 is as good as you say it is, or at least hoping someday i get to judge for myself.


Just call your credit card company and charge it back. Your credit card company will do this very easily. You'll get all your money back.


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## Rickroeder

I had my 921 come in around April 20th.


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## JerryLA

I ordered my 921 on December 29th from Dish Depot. I've sent several emails to Mark concerning shipment. My last update was last Thursday. According to Mark there are still about 30 orders ahead of me. To all who have one in hand... you lucky dogs!!!! Hopefully in the next couple of weeks mine will arrive.


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## bluegreg

I bought my 921 off ebay from an unhappy dish customer. I have the unit but I will be doing upgrades to my dish, quad LNB and installing HD antena. I should be live May 15, so I will let all know how it goes.
greg


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## BobMurdoch

Hey blue...... How much did you pay? I'm curious to see what the resale price is going for these days (I'm not selling mine, but I'm always curious to see what they are selling for in the aftermarket)


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## Mike Russell

I hope Mark don't mind me telling this but I believe it will help others know where they are on the list. I ordered on 2-27-03 and I'm # 23 on the list and some people are canceling as he calls them before shipping.


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## Earl

Is Mike's last post correct. He ordered in Feb. of 03 and is number 23 on the list. I ordered in about Feb of 04, where in the world am I on the list, 100,000+ ?


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## JM Anthony

Take heart, all of you on the waiting list. I ordered in December and received mine yesterday. Set up was quick and painless. Had only one connection issue that required a call to adv. tech. support and they were great to work with. Once the OTA guide and NBR get squared away, this will be a kick a-- machine!


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## Bogney

Earl said:


> Is Mike's last post correct. He ordered in Feb. of 03 and is number 23 on the list. I ordered in about Feb of 04, where in the world am I on the list, 100,000+ ?


It is correct. I ordered on the first day of preorders in mid Feb. 03 and got one of the last ones shipped on January 23, 04.


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## Mike Russell

Yes my post is correct, I ordered almost 15 months ago. I think I was near the end when Mark quit taking orders last year.


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## Mark S.

Got mine installed on Tuesday. 

Bought it from a guy who was selling it on E-bay. Convinced him to pull down his auction early and sell it to me for $1150. New replacement unit, never activated with 1 year warranty verified by DISH. 

I love it so far and HD reception is unbelievable!!! Does everything I was expecting it to do. Also seems a lot more stable than everyone seems to be making it out to be.

OTA reception is fantastic and I get 14 channels with antenna installed inside my attic. Only gripe is no program info for these channels but I pay for DISH locals anyway so have the guide data if I need it. 

So far...very pleased with the unit. Don't beleive all the hype. Not as bad as some would make it out to be. I'll keep my two hour recall feature and better picture quality over season pass capability any day of the week. IMO.


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