# Bad Service Call Turned Minor Problem Into Major One, Please Help



## susanandmark (Feb 15, 2007)

Longtime customer needs help from the experts, please.

We have been DirecTV customers since 1996-97 and redid our DirecTV system most recently in 2007, when we added a theater room to our house. We have a five-LNB oval dish with four lines coming off it and going to a Zinwell MB-616 powered multi-switch. We have five HD-DVR receivers, various models, and each have two sat lines feeding them for dual tuners. The older models have intact B-band converters.

We had the dish peaked in November 2010 after having some signal loss (very susceptible to rain/snow fade, that sort of thing), off and on, and that seemed to help a lot. Then, in May, we started having frequent pixillation/drop out/"searching for signal" messages, exclusively, from what I can tell, on the HD channels (USA HD, HGTV HD, Bravo HD, etc.). This happened across all receivers in the house. We had a storm with strong straight line winds about that same time and I thought perhaps that the dish had been moved slightly and just needed to be realigned.

We have had several bad to very bad experiences with DirecTV installers/service--when they would even show up--so we lived with the minor problem these last few months. Pixellation would last only a second or so and the "searching for signal" message could usually be resolved by switching channels and switching back. The problems, by the way, seem to peak in the middle of the day, though I'm not 100 percent sure of this, since 99.9 percent of the TV we watch is via DVR recordings. We have only rarely had problems with any prime-time recordings, but were starting to notice more frequent instances of going to watch something on the DVR and finding the "part or all of this program did not record" message, so decided it was time to bite the bullet and get someone to come out.

I know this is not the current system, but I was hoping to avoid replacing it, which I explained to the person sending someone out, both due to the expense and the complexity of the system we've got set-up and working for us. (I've never done a complete re-do without a major amount of hassle and trouble no matter how "easy" I'm assured it will be before we begin.)

Anyway, we had someone out this morning, from the only company that, we have learned from painful past experience, will service our semi-remote area. (Really, we're not that far out, but our zip code places us just outside the metro area that most companies service from and they simply will not come out at all when they see our zip, usually necessitating 3-6 calls to DirecTV.)

Well, the person who came arrived this morning, did not instill confidence (unwashed, chewing tobacco and spitting into a cup) from the get-go, but I gave him the benefit of the doubt (he was prompt; an hour early actually), explained the problem and he checked the signals and said they were too low on 103 (ca) and that it was likely a bad LNB. He had brought a replacement based on the discussions/explanation I had given the dispatcher yesterday, and said he'd put it on and then re-peak the dish, which should solve the problem. Except, when he put the new LNB on, the "low" 103(ca) signals were now non-existant. We were now getting nothing at all there and other sat positions weren't much better. Now, instead of occasional pixellation, we had no service at all. Great.

After hours of back and forth and fruitless "checking," he re-installed the old LNB--where the problem of 0 signal on every other 103(ca) transponder remains--and said that our switch "must be bad." 

I was very polite--didn't say anything at all, and kept asking if I could help him with anything for the first 1-1/2 hours, hoping he'd figure it out if I just let him be--but did eventually say, several times, that I simply didn't understand how what was working before is no longer working since he arrived and that we are now in an even worse scenario than before he got here. I actually didn't say it couldn't be the switch, but really did very politely and delicately say, 'OK, maybe we have a bad switch, but why was it working better before anything happened? It just doesn't make sense to me. I'd like to get back to where we at least have usable service.' He told me he thought the signals, "would come back in with time." (NOTE: Nope, they haven't.)

Then he said he was going outside to "check one more thing" and the next thing we know he'd bolted from the backyard, jumped in his truck and left without another word. Based on previous experience with DirecTV installers, this actually struck neither myself or my husband as all that unusual. 

He did leave us with our dish now semi-non-working. He pulled the wires out of the dish and didn't re-attach them with the clips (they were under a screwed in cover, which he unscrewed and left hanging) and zip ties they previously had (all are now just loose and hanging off the eaves). I'm only praying our roof doesn't now leak too (this happened to us before with a DirecTV installer).

I'm not saying it can't be the switch, mind you, but I really, really want a second opinion as this guy said many things that made me truly doubt he had a clue. Basically, I think he wanted to sell us a new system, put that in and leave. He didn't want, or couldn't, trouble shoot or repair the existing system, though he told us, many times, that he'd been "doing this for a living for 12 years." At one point my husband had heard him talking on the phone to a supervisor upset because I "wouldn't let him" pull the plugs on all the receivers. I didn't think it would help, and it didn't, but I did do them all myself while he watched, just didn't want him randomly groping behind our set-up. (My actual words to him were: There's a lot of wires back there, please let me do it, so if something gets messed up accidentally it's me doing it and then I laughed. This was AFTER getting the distinct impression that he didn't have a clue and things weren't going well.)

Some things he said that made me doubt his knowledge: You don't really need all these receivers. Why do you want more than one receiver on this TV? Why do you want a multi-switch when a splitter "does the same thing". Why are these wires labeled? He couldn't find the power supply on the multi-switch and when I pointed to it he said, 'No that's not it.' (It was.) He told us "satellite signals aren't supposed to fluctuate" when looking at signal strength meters. He asked "what do you mean" when I used the term "coax cable" ... Every time he asked me a question and I answered he said, 'Yeah, I know that.' (Then why did you ask?) That sort of stuff.

So, based on all of the above (sorry for the ramble didn't know what was/wasn't relevant info), what does everyone here think. Is it the no-longer-made switch? Could it still be LNB or dish alignment and this guy was clueless?

Help, please, because I don't have a clue where to go from here and am very frustrated.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

I understand your frustration, and hopefully you can now post some information that will help to give you help.
Can you take some photos of the dish and this "switch"?
What is the current status of getting signals?
What receivers and is this the problem with all of them?


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## mini1 (Jan 25, 2004)

Who is the installation company that you are dealing with? They sound terrible. You need to find out who the supervisor is and talk to them directly. You need to tell them exactly what you said on here. Demand that a field supervisor or master tech come out and fix your system. You could also call D* and ask for a supervisor and explain the situation. If that doesn't get anywhere, tell them you want to cancel and switch to Dish Network. You will go to retention and then, not only will this get sorted out, but you could also get some new equipment... maybe some new HD DVR's and a SWM dish.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Did this just happen? I wonder if he left to get a part and just didn't tell you (bad form).


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> Did this just happen? I wonder if he left to get a part and just didn't tell you (bad form).


That happened to me, so certainly possible.


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## susanandmark (Feb 15, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> I understand your frustration, and hopefully you can now post some information that will help to give you help.
> Can you take some photos of the dish and this "switch"?
> What is the current status of getting signals?
> What receivers and is this the problem with all of them?


I wasn't actually trying to rant (really!) just wanted to explain entire situation. As I said, I didn't know what was, or wasn't, relevant.

Right now we are getting most channels with exceptions, I would gather, of whatever is on those 103c (a and b) transponders.

Signal strengths across the board are lower than before he came, but still in upper 80s to mid 90s (were all basically mid 90s, other than 103, before he came).

The 103ca signal strengths look like this ...

1-8 N/A across the board
9-16 94, 0, 95, 0, 93, 0, 95, 0
17-24 92, 0, 95, 0, 91, 0, 95, 0
25-32 N/A across the board

The 103 cb is virtually identical with same good reading, 0 pattern on 1-8 and 9-16.

All receivers, and the switch, have been reset, several times, without effect. The signals are the same on all five receivers.

The multi-switch is a Zeniwell WB-616 (like this: http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.as...itch-(WB616)&c=Multiswitches&sku=874409000264)

And the dish is a slimline (I think that's what they were called) 5 LNB. The standard model, from what I understand, prior to the SWM units. Unsure how posting a photo of it would help?


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## susanandmark (Feb 15, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> Did this just happen? I wonder if he left to get a part and just didn't tell you (bad form).


It's been an hour now, I'm guessing he ran away. No one has called me back from message left at company a few minutes after installer left.

The company is one that has a monopoly on the so-called "rural" areas around here. They operate across much of the state under the same name (dispatch from one area, I think) and sub-contract. This is my understanding of how it works, but I am not 100 percent sure it was accurate, so I'd prefer not to 'name names' at least until I'm confident what I'm saying is absolutely the case. Seems only fair and, really, I just want to get our system working, not start any kind of grudge match.

By the way, I set up this service call directly, not through DirecTV, based on past problems (as listed in original post) of them actually being able to get service in our area. I haven't called them yet but, obviously, will at some point. Just want to even figure out what I'm asking for/about. I think the more information I have, the better chance I have of a successful outcome.

I don't really want a SWM because, unless I'm missing something, that doesn't actually gain me anything in terms of channels/services/etc.

I realize I may not have a choice in the end, but that's where I'm at right now.


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## mini1 (Jan 25, 2004)

susanandmark said:


> It's been an hour now, I'm guessing he ran away. No one has called me back from message left at company a few minutes after installer left.
> 
> The company is one that has a monopoly on the so-called "rural" areas around here. They operate across much of the state under the same name (dispatch from one area, I think) and sub-contract. This is my understanding of how it works, but I am not 100 percent sure it was accurate, so I'd prefer not to 'name names' at least until I'm confident what I'm saying is absolutely the case. Seems only fair and, really, I just want to get our system working, not start any kind of grudge match.
> 
> ...


You need to get on the phone right now with both D* and the installation company. Don't wait. This "installer" needs to be fired if he did what you said. Who gets in the truck and just leaves in the middle of a service call without fixing anything?

Why would you try to avoid getting a SWM? All future receivers will be SWM. The H25 requires it and would not work on your current system. This is a perfect time to upgrade.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

I know that sometimes they are missing parts, etc. Heck, if it's on the East Coast, it may even be due to lunch. Not saying it's right that he just left (it's not), but he may simply think that he's not done yet and plans on coming back.


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## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

Not that you should have to deal with this sort of thing, but just FYI are you seeing the same pattern of zero signals on the even transponders on 119 also? If so, it's almost certainly a problem with the cable/connectors on the cable from the dish to the port on the WB616 labelled "103/110/119 18v"


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## susanandmark (Feb 15, 2007)

mini1 said:


> Why would you try to avoid getting a SWM? All future receivers will be SWM. The H25 requires it and would not work on your current system. This is a perfect time to upgrade.


Because I didn't want to redo my set-up, wiring, etc.

Explain to me what it takes to get five HD receivers with a dual line going (wiring required, etc.) and maybe I'll feel differently, but right now we have wall-to-wall installs with two receivers on one TV (two coax lines each), three other TVs with HD receivers (all dual line). All also have multiple other components hooked up to them and ethernet junctions, etc.

PS: We are central time. He took off at about 10:30 AM without a word. He arrived about 8:30. Again a call at approx. the time he left to the dispatching company has not been returned as of yet. Though the installer here was talking to the dispatcher just minutes before he left, I was told he was "out" and would "call me back." Not saying it's absolutely not true, just saying I'm skeptical.


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## susanandmark (Feb 15, 2007)

texasbrit said:


> Not that you should have to deal with this sort of thing, but just FYI are you seeing the same pattern of zero signals on the even transponders on 119 also? If so, it's almost certainly a problem with the cable/connectors on the cable from the dish to the port on the WB616 labelled "103/110/119 18v"


Yes, now that you mention it, and I didn't notice it before, but we have zero transponders on some of our 119 as well.

It looks like this ...

1-8 "N/A" across board
9-16 "N/A" across board
17-24 N/A, N/A, N/A, N/A, N/A, 97, 100, 0
25-32 0, 0, 100, 0, 95, 96, 62, 100


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## susanandmark (Feb 15, 2007)

If someone can tell me what channels are on 119 and 103ca and 103cb, I can confirm that we are not receiving those. 101 channels are definitely coming in, as are our locals.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

susanandmark said:


> Because I didn't want to redo my set-up, wiring, etc.
> 
> Explain to me what it takes to get five HD receivers with a dual line going (wiring required, etc.) and maybe I'll feel differently, but right now we have wall-to-wall installs with two receivers on one TV (two coax lines each), three other TVs with HD receivers (all dual line). All also have multiple other components hooked up to them and ethernet junctions, etc.
> 
> PS: We are central time. He took off at about 10:30 AM without a word. He arrived about 8:30. Again a call at approx. the time he left to the dispatching company has not been returned as of yet. Though the installer here was talking to the dispatcher just minutes before he left, I was told he was "out" and would "call me back." Not saying it's absolutely not true, just saying I'm skeptical.


You can use the coax that's already being used for SWM. The transition isn't that complicated, but it might be for the bozo you had today.


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## susanandmark (Feb 15, 2007)

sigma1914 said:


> You can use the coax that's already being used for SWM. The transition isn't that complicated, but it might be for the bozo you had today.


What would I need to get a system up and running (dish type/model number) and whatever they are now using as a switch for the five receivers (still 10 lines, correct) I've currently got plus slots for at least four more potential HD receivers in the future. (We have three HD TVs now that aren't connected to the system, though we occasionally take a receiver from inside to our patio TV and it does have coax run.)

What kind of run to the dish would it take? Would I need new lines there too?

Links to examples on, say, Solid Signal would give me a good idea. I would like to know EVERYTHING I'd need before I go in, even if I eventually just have DirecTV send someone out to do it or whatever. (Maybe I'm weird, but I like to know how things work in my home so I have at least a shot of troubleshooting it without going through fun service calls like we had today.)


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## susanandmark (Feb 15, 2007)

Does anyone know if it is just the switch? Because I did a search and can still buy one on eBay and replace it myself if that's the case.


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## mini1 (Jan 25, 2004)

susanandmark said:


> Because I didn't want to redo my set-up, wiring, etc.
> 
> Explain to me what it takes to get five HD receivers with a dual line going (wiring required, etc.) and maybe I'll feel differently, but right now we have wall-to-wall installs with two receivers on one TV (two coax lines each), three other TVs with HD receivers (all dual line). All also have multiple other components hooked up to them and ethernet junctions, etc.


There isn't going to be much in the way of re-wiring. You would install a new SWM LNB on your current slimeline dish. You could remove all but one coax line. Follow the coax to its home run distribution point, remove all the multiswitches and install SWM splitter(s). Install a power inserter at the receiver nearest your dish. Go to your receivers and unhook the second line on your DVR's. Go into the menu on each receiver and select SWM. You may need to slightly re-aim your dish. If your receivers are fairly new, you could possibly add a Cinema kit and activate MRV. One coax from the dish, one line to each receiver (assuming you aren't running really old receivers).


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Yeah, for 5 DVRs, you'd need:

Slimline + 3 or 5 LNB with 4 lines going to a SWiM-16.

From the SWiM-16, you would (probably) have one 4-way splitter feeding 4 of the DVRs from SWiM port 1 and a direct line from SWiM port 2 to the last DVR (a second splitter would be added if you ever add more DVRs).

Instead of using 2 coax to each location, you'd drop to one coax at each location. The SWiM-16 + splitters would be installed in the same location as your current multiswitch.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

mini1 said:


> There isn't going to be much in the way of re-wiring. You would install a new SWM LNB on your current slimeline dish. You could remove all but one coax line. Follow the coax to its home run distribution point, remove all the multiswitches and install SWM splitter(s). Install a power inserter at the receiver nearest your dish. Go to your receivers and unhook the second line on your DVR's. Go into the menu on each receiver and select SWM. You may need to slightly re-aim your dish. If yours receivers are fairly new, you could possibly add a Cinema kit and activate MRV. One coax from the dish, one line to each receiver (assuming you aren't running really old receivers).


5 DVRs .. (dual line to each "receiver") .. SWiM-LNB won't work as that only provides 8 tuners .. 10 tuners are needed.


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## mini1 (Jan 25, 2004)

Doug Brott said:


> 5 DVRs .. (dual line to each "receiver") .. SWiM-LNB won't work as that only provides 8 tuners .. 10 tuners are needed.


Yea you are right, I didn't see that he had 5 DVR's. Maybe he could drop a couple DVR's if he upgraded and went with a MRV.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

mini1 said:


> Yea you are right, I didn't see that he had 5 DVR's. Maybe he could drop a couple DVR's if he upgraded and went with a MRV.


Possible, but that would be different than current setup. SWiM will work, but it needs to be a SWiM 16, no need to drop any equipment.


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## susanandmark (Feb 15, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> Yeah, for 5 DVRs, you'd need:
> 
> Slimline + 3 or 5 LNB with 4 lines going to a SWiM-16.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your quick responses. Just trying to wrap my head around and get all this.

OK, so I would, or would not, need a new dish (or just a new LNB)?

Take one of the four lines currently going to our dish and hook it to the new one? Need to run a new line?

In the attic where our current multi-switch is, we can put in a swim multiswitch (or whatever it now is ... a link perhaps could help me picture it?) and just screw the lines in just as now? Am I screwed up?

We have a box in our attic where all our lines are home-runned both outside from the sat dish and inside from the receivers meet there. Right now the multi-switch is in that box, which has power, and the lines are labeled and can be readjusted to any thing we need (e.g. living room 1, etc. with most rooms having at least 4 coax runs). (Ethernet and phone is in a box right next to it.)

What's a power inverter? None of our receivers would be close to the switch. Problem?

We need a splitter at every box now? Is that good for the signal?

Can/should we also set up whole home DVR (I don't want to get rid of any of our receivers though) service at same time? What is involved in that?

If that's the route I go is there anything we can do in meantime to get our system up and running? Any ideas to try?

All these questions may help you understand why it seems a lot easier to me to just swap the current switch if that is actually the issue.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

If you have this, you DO NOT need a new dish:









If you have this, you DO need a new dish:


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## susanandmark (Feb 15, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> If you have this, you DO NOT need a new dish:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have the slimline.

Is this something we could, potentially, do ourselves?

Maybe I sound picky or weird but the situation this AM was the norm for us with DirecTV people. I'd rather do it myself, or at least know what they were supposed to, step-by-step, than have someone else botch things up, again.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

you can put the SWiM-16 in the same place as the WB16 (removing the WB16). If you have the slimline dish already, you could use the same LNB (if it's OK) or get a new LNB. If you have the Sidecar dish, you should go ahead and get it replaced as the sidecar dish is no longer used and does have problems after a while (that may actually be your problem).

If you replace the WB16, the SWiM-16 has two outputs (instead of 16). Each output will feed via splitters and one cable to each location. Each receiver will need to be restarted to force it to change from legacy to SWiM setup.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

susanandmark said:


> Does anyone know if it is just the switch? Because I did a search and can still buy one on eBay and replace it myself if that's the case.


"Quick check":
unplug the power to the switch, then swap the coax to the 13 volt 22 khz tone with the 18 volt 22 khz tone.
Power the switch up and check the numbers.
If they swap from even to odd, then it's the coax. If they don't it's the switch.


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## susanandmark (Feb 15, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> you can put the SWiM-16 in the same place as the WB16 (removing the WB16). If you have the slimline dish already, you could use the same LNB (if it's OK) or get a new LNB. If you have the Sidecar dish, you should go ahead and get it replaced as the sidecar dish is no longer used and does have problems after a while (that may actually be your problem).
> 
> If you replace the WB16, the SWiM-16 has two outputs (instead of 16). Each output will feed via splitters and one cable to each location. Each receiver will need to be restarted to force it to change from legacy to SWiM setup.


So, I'd need a SWM LNB, a SWiM-16, how many splitters, still don't understand the power inverter part?

Will the dish need to be realigned?

How does the splitter and one-line work? Is it two again on the receiver, or does the receiver just know that one is now two?

Oh and, we still have 3 HR20s. Will those work with this system?

Wish I'd looked into all this here BEFORE this AM's "service" call.


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## mini1 (Jan 25, 2004)

susanandmark said:


> Thank you for your quick responses. Just trying to wrap my head around and get all this.
> 
> OK, so I would, or would not, need a new dish (or just a new LNB)?


See above picture. It sounds like you do not need a new dish.



> Take one of the four lines currently going to our dish and hook it to the new one? Need to run a new line?


No need to run a new line, as long as your have RG6 coax. Reuse what you already have.



> In the attic where our current multi-switch is, we can put in a swim multiswitch (or whatever it now is ... a link perhaps could help me picture it?) and just screw the lines in just as now? Am I screwed up?


Yes, you are replacing the current multi-switch. The only change you will be making it that you be running ONE line to each receiver, including DVR's. You will use one SWM splitter. That will be new. You will be loosing lines.



> What's a power inverter? None of our receivers would be close to the switch. Problem?


It is a power inserter, not inverter. It inserts power into the coax to run SWM.



> We need a splitter at every box now? Is that good for the signal?


No, who said you needed one? The DVR's split internally on SWM (assuming you have HR-20 or newer). Think of this like a cable TV set-up.


> Can/should we also set up whole home DVR (I don't want to get rid of any of our receivers though) service at same time? What is involved in that?


It is $3 per month. If you have the numbers of TV I think you have, then it would be a no brainier to add MRV. If you can remotely access the DVR's from another room, it may make sense to get some H24/H25's and ditch the outdated DVR's.



> If that's the route I go is there anything we can do in meantime to get our system up and running? Any ideas to try?


Yes, call the installers supervisor and call a D* supervisor. You shouldn't have to pay to start replacing equipment because the installer was a hack.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

susanandmark said:


> So, I'd need a SWM LNB, a SWiM-16, how many splitters, still don't understand the power inverter part?
> 
> Will the dish need to be realigned?
> 
> ...


Please try the "quick check" above as if the coax is bad, it needs to be fixed "first" or the SWiM-16 will also have this problem.

I/we can walk you through what you'd need if you want to go SWiM.


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## susanandmark (Feb 15, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> "Quick check":
> unplug the power to the switch, then swap the coax to the 13 volt 22 khz tone with the 18 volt 22 khz tone.
> Power the switch up and check the numbers.
> If they swap from even to odd, then it's the coax. If they don't it's the switch.


OK, I did the swap at the switch and the 103(ca) now look like this ...

1-8 "N/A" across the board
9-16 94, 0, 95, 0, 92, 0, 95, 0
17-24 91, 0, 95, 0, 91, 0, 95, 0
25-32 "N/A" across the board

When I posted before 103(ca) looked like the below so, basically, the same. Does that mean it's bad coax?

OR could it be that the guy out here attached/reattached the coax cables in the wrong order coming from the LNB. Until you mentioned the above, I didn't know it mattered BUT he did ask me, a couple times, why the coax cable at the dish was labeled. (All our coax is labeled.)

Remember: Before the service guy came this morning we had some signal issues but we did have signal on all channels on all transponders MOST of the time. There were no every-other-one is zero stuff.

If we can fix that, as the first step, by changing a couple wires, I'm all for it!



susanandmark said:


> The 103ca signal strengths look like this ...
> 
> 1-8 N/A across the board
> 9-16 94, 0, 95, 0, 93, 0, 95, 0
> ...


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

susanandmark said:


> OK, I did the swap at the switch and the 103(ca) now look like this ...
> 
> 1-8 "N/A" across the board
> 9-16 94, 0, 95, 0, 92, 0, 95, 0
> ...


Looks like the switch is the problem.
The connections at the dish doesn't matter because there is also a switch there.


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## susanandmark (Feb 15, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> Looks like the switch is the problem.
> The connections at the dish don't matter because there is also a switch there.


Oops, sorry, I went back and had incorrectly read your original message. IF they switch, it's bad coax, if they don't, it's just a bad switch.

So, how come it was all working this morning and now we've got zeros? Frustrating!

Time to walk through SWIM set-up? Do-able on our own if we buy the parts to avoid having the same company back again if at all possible?

If people think my husband can put on the LNB, I can attach wires. I'm good at following directions and have a reasonably technical mind. I hooked up our current system and while running wires in walls is beyond me (I'm not handy), I do all the technical/IT stuff in our household. (I know, a world gone mad. My husband can barely work the Harmony remotes ... which I programed.)

(I'm sure DirecTV will credit any costs if I push hard enough, but know they won't send parts without installer. Even if they don't credit, it still may be worth some $$ to avoid dealing with them again.)


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

fwiw swm16 drops into space of wb616 really nicely 
I know for fact it does 
you unplug wires from 616 switch, attach to swm16.
hook power supply up to swm16.

I ended up using the unused second lines to dvr's for ota antenna feeds.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

I think I've worked with you before.

Actually we haven't "proved" the LNB isn't bad either, so it's the LNB or the switch "most likely".

With 3 HR20s, you could convert to a SWiMLNB, remove the BBCs from the receivers and use only one coax from the dish to a 4-way splitter and one coax to each HR20 "SAT 1" input.


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## susanandmark (Feb 15, 2007)

David MacLeod said:


> fwiw swm16 drops into space of wb616 really nicely
> I know for fact it does
> you unplug wires from 616 switch, attach to swm16.
> hook power supply up to swm16.
> ...


Drops aren't are problem, we've already got at least double the drops to each room than we're using. When we did this build out, I wanted to be prepared. 

I'm still not sure I completely understand how the SWM works at receiver end. Does the single line get a splitter right before receiver or just hook onto one line? No more B-Band converters on the older units?


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## adkinsjm (Mar 25, 2003)

susanandmark said:


> Drops aren't are problem, we've already got at least double the drops to each room than we're using. When we did this build out, I wanted to be prepared.
> 
> I'm still not sure I completely understand how the SWM works at receiver end. Does the single line get a splitter right before receiver or just hook onto one line? No more B-Band converters on the older units?


Just one line. No splitter needed at the receiver.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

susanandmark said:


> I'm still not sure I completely understand how the SWM works at receiver end. Does the single line get a splitter right before receiver or just hook onto one line? No more B-Band converters on the older units?


As I posted ^ just one coax to each receiver and no BBCs.


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## susanandmark (Feb 15, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> I think I've worked with you before.
> 
> Actually we haven't "proved" the LNB isn't bad either, so it's the LNB or the switch "most likely".
> 
> With 3 HR20s, you could convert to a SWiMLNB, remove the BBCs from the receivers and use only one coax from the dish to a 4-way splitter and one coax to each HR20 "SAT 1" input.


Meaning I'm crazy, dense or difficult? Or all three? 

We have 5 total HD DVRs, 3 of them are HR-20s that I have no desire to replace right now. I also want to maintain the ability to add additional receivers as needed. We have three, four actually now that I think about it, TVs in the house nut currently on sat, and not really needed to be right now. Our current set-up makes it as trivial as adding a receiver (lines are there, as our slots on multi-switch). Wouldn't want to lose that ability to quickly self-install something new if I can help it.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

susanandmark said:


> Meaning I'm crazy, dense or difficult? Or all three?
> 
> We have 5 total HD DVRs, 3 of them are HR-20s. I also want to maintain the ability to add additional receivers as needed. We have three, four actually now that I think about it, TVs in the house nut currently on sat, and not really needed to be right now. Our current set-up makes it as trivial as adding a receiver (lines are there, as our slots on multi-switch). Wouldn't want to lose that ability to quickly self-install something new if I can help it.


SWiMs are based off 8 tuners, so with more than 4 DVRs the SWiM-16 is your only option.
What models are your other receivers? Some older ones don't work with SWiM, but the SWiM-16 has four legacy ports for this.


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## susanandmark (Feb 15, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> SWiMs are based off 8 tuners, so with more than 4 DVRs the SWiM-16 is your only option.
> What models are your other receivers? Some older ones don't work with SWiM, but the SWiM-16 has four legacy ports for this.


Thank you so much for your help and patience!! (Meant for everyone responding, not just the above poster, but especially to him/her.)

We have three HR-20s, 1 HR-22 and 1 HR-24. Will it work? Replacing receivers is not something I want to do right now AT ALL. We've got loads and loads of recordings on each one (including external drives, some full) and I plan to run them, literally, until they die, without exception.

If the receivers have to be replaced. I'm looking to just change out the switch, I think. (And earlier when you said we'd "proved" the LNB was bad, you meant because the installer tried to change it and the problem got worse, correct? I'm wondering now if he tried to put a SWM LNB on there without doing anything else, not realizing it won't work. Are legacy Ka/Ku LNBs even available?)

By the way, I prefer the term detail oriented over totally nuts.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

susanandmark said:


> We have three HR-20s, 1 HR-22 and 1 HR-24. Will it work? Replacing receivers is not something I want to do right now AT ALL. We've got loads and loads of recordings on each one (including external drives, some full) and I plan to run them, literally, until they die, without exception.
> 
> If the receivers have to be replaced. I'm looking to just change out the switch, I think. (And earlier when you said we'd "proved" the LNB was bad, you meant because the installer tried to change it and the problem got worse, correct?)
> 
> By the way, I prefer the term detail oriented over totally nuts.


You're good with SWiM, so maybe the only question is whether the LNB is what is really the problem right now.
Wish I was closer as I have spare LNBs just for things like this.
The SWiM-16 is the way to go, but if the LNB is the problem, then moving to a SWiM-16 isn't going to resolve it [alone].

To check the LNB, you might [if you have a coax barrel] jumper across the switch with one coax from a receiver to the coax to the dish. Then check the receiver and see if anything has changed. If both even & odds are there, then the LNB is good and it's the switch.


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## susanandmark (Feb 15, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> You're good with SWiM, so maybe the only question is whether the LNB is what is really the problem right now.
> Wish I was closer as I have spare LNBs just for things like this.
> The SWiM-16 is the way to go, but if the LNB is the problem, then moving to a SWiM-16 isn't going to resolve it [alone].


OK, now I'm confused again. I can't use the SWiM 16 switch without a SWM LNB, can I?

Right now the five-LNB system I've got has four wires coming off it, into the house, and to the Zeniwell multi-switch.

I know I'm taking a lot of your time, and I apologize, but could you tell me exactly what I'd need (all components) to just convert the dish/system to SWiM.

-SWM five-LNB
-SWiM 16 switch
-And?

And if I wanted to do DECA to at least prepare for MRV? (Which may appeal in the future on those four TVs not currently with their own receiver, but used in the trial didn't totally impress and I found it unnecessary for our current set-up.)


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## David Ortiz (Aug 21, 2006)

susanandmark said:


> OK, now I'm confused again. I can't use the SWiM 16 switch without a SWM LNB, can I?


Actually, you can't use a SWiM-16 switch *with* a SWiM LNB.

The SWiM-16 switch uses the 4 lines coming off a standard Slimline dish.


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## susanandmark (Feb 15, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> To check the LNB, you might [if you have a coax barrel] jumper across the switch with one coax from a receiver to the coax to the dish. Then check the receiver and see if anything has changed. If both even & odds are there, then the LNB is good and it's the switch.


OK, remember when I said I was semi-technical but not handy? You've lost me. 

Do you mean just running a line to a receiver direct from the dish itself?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

susanandmark said:


> OK, now I'm confused again. I can't use the SWiM 16 switch without a SWM LNB, can I?
> 
> Right now the five-LNB system I've got has four wires coming off it, into the house, and to the Zeniwell multi-switch.
> 
> ...


The SWiM-16 uses a "normal" LNB, where the SWiMLNB has the SWiM as part of it.

So:
Standard SL5 LNB,
SWiM-16 + PI [for power]
2 4-way "green labeled" splitters
"connect as needed" :lol:
DECAs can be added as needed. The 24s have one internally.


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## susanandmark (Feb 15, 2007)

David Ortiz said:


> Actually, you can't use a SWiM-16 switch *with* a SWiM LNB.
> 
> The SWiM-16 switch uses for 4 lines coming off a standard Slimline dish.


OK, I'm definitely confused!

I thought to have a SWiM system, you needed a SWM LNB. So if all I gotta do is change the switch, I'm golden.

I KNOW I can install one of those myself. No worries.

So assuming our current dish is properly peaked and the LNB is NOT bad (which I know is a question) I can just change the switch and I've got SWM???? Sounds too easy. I gotta be missing something here.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

susanandmark said:


> OK, remember when I said I was semi-technical but not handy? You've lost me.
> 
> Do you mean just running a line to a receiver direct from the dish itself?


Sure if you can do that, but I was "thinking" to use one coax from the output of the switch and connect it to one coax from the input of the switch [requires a connector called a barrel] and then use the receiver to power the LNB and see what it gets.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)




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## Alebob911 (Mar 22, 2007)

Folk, So susanandmark does not get further confused lets let VOS work with her. It's tough when your frustrated and trying to read multiple posts and suggestions.


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## susanandmark (Feb 15, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> The SWiM-16 uses a "normal" LNB, where the SWiMLNB has the SWiM as part of it.
> 
> So:
> Standard SL5 LNB,
> ...


Again, thanks very much (no sarcasm intended) for the pedantic description. If people talk to me like a five-year-old, it's amazing what I can eventually grasp.

So, if I get (and install) the following I will have an up-to-date, SWiM system, to which DECA can be added and all current and (foreseeable) future DirecTV receivers/products will work on?

-2x DIRECTV SWS-4 Satellite 4-Way Wide Band MRV Compatible Splitter (2 -2150 MHz)

-DIRECTV SWM16 Single Wire Multi-Switch (16 Channel) (SWM-16)

-DIRECTV SWM-PI 29V 1.5A Power Inserter for SWM-8 and SWM-16 (PI-29Z)

And, assuming my LNB and coax is good (and, yes, I realize that is just an assumption) I should be able to hook the above up using my current dish/lines?

Brief Rant ... Why isn't there someone who seems to know what the frick they're talking about in my part of the country? DirecTV sure didn't when I first called about the issue months ago and talked to THREE DIFFERENT REPS. And no one in the install/service company I talked to--and we talked for over 30 minutes yesterday troubleshooting and going over the problems/my concerns--even MENTIONED the idea they could put in a SWiM 16 switch. They wanted to change my dish, run new lines, etc. Heck, the guy today told me I "can't" have five HD DVRs with two lines anymore ("now they got multi-room"), which is why he said he understood I wanted to cling to the legacy system. I knew that wasn't totally accurate, but I didn't know how totally off base it was either.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

"Brief Rant"
Not sure where you are, but training is a BIG problem all over. Techs that care about their jobs, have a hard time getting the information they need and those that don't care, well....
The SWS4 has been replaced with the new [DECA] SPLIT4MRV splitter

http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.as...itter-(2-2150-MHz)&c=Satellite Splitters&sku=


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## susanandmark (Feb 15, 2007)

veryoldschool said:



> The SWS4 has been replaced with the new [DECA] SPLIT4MRV splitter
> 
> http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.as...itter-(2-2150-MHz)&c=Satellite Splitters&sku=


That link is leading me to the same splitter as the SWS4, just by the by.

If I wanted to do DECA while I'm at it, what would I need to get set-up?

Is it worth it since we already have hard-wire ethernet at each of our receivers? Any better/faster? Can the DECA router be in the attic with our other router or does it need to be closer to receiver?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

susanandmark said:


> That link is leading me to the same splitter as the SWS4, just by the by.
> 
> If I wanted to do DECA while I'm at it, what would I need to get set-up?
> 
> Is it worth it since we already have hard-wire ethernet at each of our receivers? Any better/faster? Can the DECA router be in the attic with our other router or does it need to be closer to receiver?


The link or really what they're calling them now is the same, but the name I got was also off that site. What you don't want is:









If you have ethernet working now, there may not be any difference with DECA. It sure won't be any worse with DECA, but it might be better as all the MRV traffic stays off your home network.
There isn't a DECA "router", but a bridge and it can be anywhere you have coax and ethernet. There is even a new wireless one that can be connected near a receiver, to its coax.

As for need, the 24s need nothing, while your others need the white DECA [one each] and the Cinema Connection kit to make the bridge to your home network.


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## susanandmark (Feb 15, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> The link or really what they're calling them now is the same, but the name I got was also off that site.
> 
> If you have ethernet working now, there may not be any difference with DECA. It sure won't be any worse with DECA, but it might be better as all the MRV traffic stays off your home network.
> There isn't a DECA "router", but a bridge and it can be anywhere you have coax and ethernet. There is even a new wireless one that can be connected near a receiver, to its coax.
> ...


I got the name from the Solid Signal site too, which is where I was looking, because I've dealt with them before. It was the green label splitters you had linked to.

As for DECA ... How does it hook up to your Internet then? Can't see what the "cinema connection kit" actually contains. We already have (but don't that often use) the On Demand and the house has both wired and wireless access in every single room, including behind all the receivers. Like my other systems, I don't want to biff my other set-up (wifi/hard-wired) in order to make this work. But if it's easy to just put another box in the attic next to the new switch and then run a couple cables through it, could be worth it. But definitely NOT if I have to have DirecTV's "professional" installation ... I think for obvious reasons at this point.

To update ... I've now wasted the whole day on this and still don't have a working system or call back from service company. I am waiting to confirm if I just order a new switch, etc. and do it myself before I call DirecTV. I want to have either solution in hand/problem self-solved or know exactly what I want/need to ask them to do.

Thanks again to this forum for all the help. I should have started here first ... Something I realized pretty quickly this AM. In defense of my sanity, the guy they sent out in November to peak the dish did so promptly, quickly and efficiently so I was hopeful things would go smoothly once again. No such luck.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

All the non 24s would "simply" need one of these: http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.as...DECA--(DECA1MR01)&c=Satellite Components&sku=

You connect it to the receiver and then the coax to it and then the ethernet jumper to the network jack of the receiver.

you could use one of these in the attic: http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.as...upply-(DECABB1R0)&c=Satellite Components&sku=

or from DirecTV [and cheaper] the wireless one http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=193851


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## susanandmark (Feb 15, 2007)

I went ahead and ordered the parts from Solid Signal. Fingers crossed I can get it up and running myself. I'll let you know. Very, VERY appreciative for all the help I received in this thread!!


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## Alebob911 (Mar 22, 2007)

GREAT JOB VOS!!


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

susanandmark said:


> I went ahead and ordered the parts from Solid Signal. Fingers crossed I can get it up and running myself. I'll let you know. Very, VERY appreciative for all the help I received in this thread!!


I bet that cost a bit, but for do-it-yourself it can be worth it. When you're ready to install, this place will help.


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## hombresoto (Sep 10, 2006)

"Doug Brott" said:


> I know that sometimes they are missing parts, etc. Heck, if it's on the East Coast, it may even be due to lunch. Not saying it's right that he just left (it's not), but he may simply think that he's not done yet and plans on coming back.


I have been working on the east coast as an installer for many years and can count my lunches on one hand.
Back to topic...


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Alebob911 said:


> GREAT JOB VOS!!


Thanks, but there are many here who would have done the same. [just one of the crowd here]


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## susanandmark (Feb 15, 2007)

sigma1914 said:


> I bet that cost a bit, but for do-it-yourself it can be worth it. When you're ready to install, this place will help.


Wasn't free 

But, my hope is that it saves the hair pulling and hassle of dealing with, let's just say, the less than knowledgeable (omitted hygiene joke I had originally planned because it felt too mean, though true today).

I admit that I'm HOPING to get at least some of the $360 cost (HIGHLY doubtful for all) as a service credit from DirecTV but, even if I don't (and, trust me, I'm gonna ask, but know there's no obligation/guarantee/expectation), and I can get it all up and running and working smoothly, it will still be worth it to me just to have the problems solved ... At least for now 

Buying a replacement WB-616 switch via eBay or the like would have been around $300, so it seemed to make sense to at least try and upgrade.

By the way, Solid Signal said I needed 2 8-way (model SPLIT8MRV) switches (http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.as...er-(2-2150-MHz)&c=Amplifiers&sku=874409002084), not 2 4-way which, when they said it, made total sense, so I changed. Hope that wasn't a mistake. If it was tell me quick so I can call and change it back.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

susanandmark said:


> Wasn't free
> 
> But, my hope is that it saves the hair pulling and hassle of dealing with, let's just say, the less than knowledgeable (omitted hygiene joke I had originally planned because it felt too mean, though true today).
> 
> ...


I would change it back to 2 4-ways, because the 8-way is simply adding 5 dB of loss that you don't need. Rainfade may start sooner than with 4-ways.


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## wallfishman (Dec 31, 2008)

susanandmark if it were me I would start troubleshooting right at that switch. what you are seeing can be a bad switch, a bad lnb, or 1 of the 4 wires feeding the switch has issues. so doing divide and conquer method I would undo all four feeds off the switch and individually test them with a meter to verify signal. There could be a line with a corroded fitting , bad barrel etc. without a meter you can bypass the switch and connect a feed directly to the receiver to test signal.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

wallfishman said:


> susanandmark if it were me I would start troubleshooting right at that switch. what you are seeing can be a bad switch, a bad lnb, or 1 of the 4 wires feeding the switch has issues. so doing divide and conquer method I would undo all four feeds off the switch and individually test them with a meter to verify signal. There could be a line with a corroded fitting , bad barrel etc. without a meter you can bypass the switch and connect a feed directly to the receiver to test signal.


Think this has already been suggested/posted here.


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## susanandmark (Feb 15, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> I would change it back to 2 4-ways, because the 8-way is simply adding 5 dB of loss that you don't need. Rainfade may start sooner than with 4-ways.


They were saying the 5 HD DVRs still counted as 10, so I needed more than the 8, even with the one-wire solution. Does that make any sense? They if I only wanted 8 I could get the SWiM 8 instead and that's not what I want, right? (To add more confusion to the mix.)

Is one 8 and one 4 any better, or do they need to be paired?

And to comment on the whole bad installer experience again. If this turns out to work like most here seem to think than, overall, he was right, it is the switch. Now, he offered no solutions for that, and did want to change the dish for some reason and then just left out of the blue. And it was working, if not perfectly, at least working, before he started fiddling with it but ... Bad switch does seem to be the consensus so I don't want to condemn too hard.

My guess/theory all along was they get paid a certain amount no matter how long a call takes and when it gets tough to troubleshoot or he's not really confident how to proceed he just decided to cut his loses and leave.


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## David Ortiz (Aug 21, 2006)

Solid Signal is wrong. veryoldschool is correct. With 5 DVRs and a SWiM-16, two 4-way splitters are best.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

susanandmark said:


> They were saying the 5 HD DVRs still counted as 10, so I needed more than the 8, even with the one-wire solution. Does that make any sense? They if I only wanted 8 I could get the SWiM 8 instead and that's not what I want, right? (To add more confusion to the mix.)
> 
> Is one 8 and one 4 any better, or do they need to be paired?
> 
> ...


Some days it seems like the blind leading the blind.
The SWiM-16 has two outputs, where each handle 8 tuners. Since you have 5 "receivers", you'll need two splitters and 4-ways are best, as this equals 8, and with 5 receivers + one DECA, you'll still have two left.

As to the switch & tech, if he thought the switch was bad, he doesn't have one to replace it with as they are no longer made.
"Maybe" he's off trying to find one..... !rolling


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## susanandmark (Feb 15, 2007)

David Ortiz said:


> Solid Signal is wrong. veryoldschool is correct. With 5 DVRs and a SWiM-16, two 4-way splitters are best.


He's saying that you still need the space for 10 lines even though it's a one line solution. He's telling me that he'll change the order back, but it won't work.

I'm trusting you.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

susanandmark said:


> He's saying that you still need the space for 10 lines even though it's a one line solution. He's telling me that he'll change the order back, but it won't work.
> 
> I'm trusting you.


"He" doesn't know what he's talking about. :nono: :lol:


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## Beerstalker (Feb 9, 2009)

VOS is right, since you only are using 5 receivers you only need to hook up 5 coax runs, one to each receiver (six runs if you add the braodband DECA). You really don't even need two 4 way splitters, you could get by with one 4 way splitter, and one 2 way splitter.

From SWM output one you will go to the 4 way splitter and then run one line from each of the splitter outputs to one of your HD-DVRs.

From SWM output 2 you will go to the 2 way splitter (or the second 4 way if you get two of them). Then from that splitter you will use one coax run to your other HD-DVR, and one coax run to your broadband DECA adapter (Cinima Connection Kit) if you use one.

You will hook the Power Inserter up to the power port.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Beerstalker said:


> VOS is right, since you only are using 5 receivers you only need to hook up 5 coax runs, one to each receiver (six runs if you add the braodband DECA). You really don't even need two 4 way splitters, you could get by with one 4 way splitter, and one 2 way splitter.
> 
> From SWM output one you will go to the 4 way splitter and then run one line from each of the splitter outputs to one of your HD-DVRs.
> 
> ...


I was trying to keep it "simple", but you too are correct and the 2-way should be [if used] on the longest coax runs to help balance the cable/coax losses, but.....


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## susanandmark (Feb 15, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> "He" doesn't know what he's talking about. :nono: :lol:


I hope not. He said they still count a two, even though you use one wire, just like now. He was arguing about me listening to people on the Internet in lieu of him (he said there's no db loss on larger splitters because they're capped) when I finally broke down and told me "who" was helping me after he suggested I go to dbstalk.com because you'd agree with him. 

New wrinkle though ... Anyway, he had me to go to sat test channels and I'm getting a "searching for signal" on 103b even (channel 9511) which he said means it's not the switch at all, it's the dish alignment after all. He said can't be aligned without a meter which, of course, we don't have and likely can't do ourselves. (Used to be able to do the shout out from the window thing with my hubby in the old days and do a pretty good job of it.)

So, now what?


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## kymikes (Jan 16, 2008)

susanandmark, As a side note, I would send an email to [email protected] while this issue is fresh. I am not trying to 'rabble rouse' but would do this for the following reasons:
1. DirecTV needs to continue to be made aware of installation vendors that have a 'destructive' relation with DirecTV customers
2. Even if your service rep. had some minimum technical background (which it doesn't appear that he did), walking in chewing tobacco and then leaving unannounced 'in the middle' of a service call is grossly unacceptable
3. This is your best method of getting some 'acceptable to you' compensation for the time and expense that you have been forced to put it for a 'normal' service call.
4. Whether it turns out to be LNB or switch that is bad, your existing setup could have been repaired without changing the layout of your current installation. Ideally, someone at DirecTV should have been able to outline the changes necessary to upgrade to 'Whole Home' if you had desired. If you had desired, you would not have had to change your DVR's and, therefore, lose some of your recordings.

Just my thoughts without getting into the technical questions that have been very competently addressed by VOS. I wish you the best of luck.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

susanandmark said:


> I hope not. He said they still count a two, even though you use one wire, just like now. He was arguing about me listening to people on the Internet in lieu of him (he said there's no db loss on larger splitters because they're capped) when I finally broke down and told me "who" was helping me.
> 
> New wrinkle though ... Anyway, he had me to go to sat test channels and I'm getting a "searching for signal" on 103b even (channel 9511) which he said means it's not the switch at all, it's the dish alignment after all. He said can't be aligned without a meter which, of course, we don't have and likely can't do ourselves. (Used to be able to do the shout out from the window thing with my hubby in the old days and do a pretty good job of it.)
> 
> So, now what?


Who is he????
I align my dish with my receiver, by selecting "view signal strength"
As for "splitters", he doesn't have a clue and the more "he talks" the more he keeps proving it.
Now as to whether it's the switch or not, when the receiver is searching, it means it isn't getting a signal [DUH], BUT!!!! without removing the switch from the circuit NO ONE knows if it's the switch, or the LNB itself.
"Jumpering" across the switch will show if the switch is it or not, because [another DUH] if you still have searching without the switch, then it isn't the switch. IF on the other hand you no longer have searching, "then" it is the [removed] switch.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

kymikes said:


> susanandmark, As a side note, I would send an email to [email protected] while this issue is fresh. I am not trying to 'rabble rouse' but would do this for the following reasons:
> 1. DirecTV needs to continue to be made aware of installation vendors that have a 'destructive' relation with DirecTV customers
> 2. Even if your service rep. had some minimum technical background (which it doesn't appear that he did), walking in chewing tobacco and then leaving unannounced 'in the middle' of a service call is grossly unacceptable
> 3. This is your best method of getting some 'acceptable to you' compensation for the time and expense that you have been forced to put it for a 'normal' service call.
> ...


^ "yeah" and had one asked for the Whole Home DVR upgrade @ $200, all of this would have been "fixed/replaced" [though the same person may have been dispatched :eek2:].


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## susanandmark (Feb 15, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> Who is he????
> I align my dish with my receiver, by selecting "view signal strength"
> As for "splitters", he doesn't have a clue and the more "he talks" the more he keeps proving it.
> Now as to whether it's the switch or not, when the receiver is searching, it means it isn't getting a signal [DUH], BUT!!!! without removing the switch from the circuit NO ONE knows if it's the switch, or the LNB itself.
> "Jumpering" across the switch will show if the switch is it or not, because [another DUH] if you still have searching without the switch, then it isn't the switch. IF on the other hand you no longer have searching, "then" it is the [removed] switch.


Clearly, I know just enough about this subject (DirecTV) to be dangerous and not enough to be confident. (And had to giggle because you used the same phrasing as the Solid Signal Guy ... "Who is 'he'" when I said "he told me to get the two fours")

What you say makes total sense, but it also made sense that the searching meant alignment and not the switch. By the way, the test channel for 103 even comes in perfectly.

I did get the set-up you advised. Should be here next week. Will keep fingers crossed that I install and it gets up and running.

Meantime is the consensus here that messing with the alignment ourselves this weekend is a pointless pursuit? I ask because I don't want to do more harm than good (i.e. now we have no channels AND need to get that same guy back out here to fix it). Keeping in mind that before the "service call" this AM we did have readings on all transponders and were receiving all channels, albeit with dropouts.

As a PS, I'm actually kind of GLAD that service person just jumped the fence and left (no, literally, he jumped the fence to avoid coming back through the house since our gate was locked cause we have a pool). I do NOT enjoy confrontation and I was already worried about how I was going to avoid paying this guy for making our problem worse. I was still HOPING he'd figure it out, but didn't have much faith in that particular outcome. Thought it was much more likely he'd demand payment AND leave us in a lurch, so fleeing was actually a better-than-expected outcome at that point.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

"Well if you have no TV now", then you don't have anything to lose, so....
connect the dish to a receiver without the switch, see what or if you get anything.
Maybe someone has a link to how to align the slimline which might help, as googling hasn't found it for me.
There are some fine adjustments for AZ & EL that you can use if there is some signal already, otherwise use the course El & AZ like the older dishes to find the signal.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

your best bet is to bypass the switch completely as VOS has suggested to verify whether or not the current switch is bad or not. If the switch is bad, then there isn't much to do other than wait. If you find that you still have problems after bypassing the switch, then (if your bold) you could make some adjustments to the alignment to improve the situation.

I've done it myself a few times and it's not really that hard, but access to the dish is key and you'll also need a receiver close by or a second person helping you with the adjustment by yelling out the signal strengths for you. (unless you have a meter of course )


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## Beerstalker (Feb 9, 2009)

Man, SolidSignal is usually pretty good to work with, I wonder if this guy was a new hire or something cause he really doesn't know his stuff.

Susanandmark, sorry if I missed it, but where about do you live? Maybe someone on here would be willing to come by and help out. I know I would if you were in my area.


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## susanandmark (Feb 15, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> "Well if you have no TV now", then you don't have anything to lose, so....
> connect the dish to a receiver without the switch, see what or if you get anything.
> Maybe someone has a link to how to align the slimline which might help, as googling hasn't found it for me.
> There are some fine adjustments for AZ & EL that you can use if there is some signal already, otherwise use the course El & AZ like the older dishes to find the signal.


Oops, sorry, I went back and can see how you read it that way. Right now we have everything but the channels on the 103 even transponders and maybe some on 119, though I'm not sure what's there, so can't check, but we have some suspicious zero readings there too.

I meant that I was afraid if we started futzing with the thing we might move it to the point we have no channels at all AND then need to hire another "professional" to come back and realign it.

Think we'll just leave bad enough alone. Think we've "fixed" the system enough for one day. I'll work on totally blowing it up next week when I get the gear from Solid Signal. Will let you know how it all works out.

Thanks again for your help and patience. Any mistakes from here on out (and before) are my own.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

susanandmark said:


> Oops, sorry, I went back and can see how you read it that way. Right now we have everything but the channels on the 103 even transponders and maybe some on 119, though I'm not sure what's there, so can't check, but we have some suspicious zero readings there too.
> 
> I meant that I was afraid if we started futzing with the thing we might move it to the point we have no channels at all AND then need to hire another "professional" to come back and realign it.
> 
> ...


OK, so "really" it is worth by-passing the switch and see if it is or is not the problem. You can then put things back to where you are now [nothing lost and maybe information gained].
For now stay away from the dish. 

these will need to be my last words for a bit as I do need to.... :lol:


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> these will need to be my last words for a bit as I do need to.... :lol:


 .. I know what you're talking about here ...


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## admdata (Apr 22, 2011)

Just a BTW:

I found (on ebay) a Zinwell WB616 switch current bid is $19.99

here is the link for it http://cgi.ebay.com/Zinwell-WB616-Wide-band-6X16-Multi-Switch-Ka-Ku-/250853889926?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a680e9786#ht_500wt_1156

good like with your switch swap and upgrade to a Swim system!!!!!

As others have said a good idea would be to take a reciver to the attic (and a tv of course), and hook it up directly to the wires coming from the dish, "take out" the switch, if you get all signals on the "temp" hookup then the switch is bad, if you still get the same readings (the ones you got before), then the LNB needs to be replaced. IF you get all good readings then the switch is bad and the new parts you ordered will fix this problem.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

admdata said:


> As others have said a good idea would be to take a reciver to the attic (and a tv of course), and hook it up directly to the wires coming from the dish, "take out" the switch, if you get all signals on the "temp" hookup then the switch is bad, if you still get the same readings (the ones you got before), then the LNB needs to be replaced. IF you get all good readings then the switch is bad and the new parts you ordered will fix this problem.


One or two of these would be so much easier:


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

What market are you in? USA is a bit vague.


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## MikeinBaja (Mar 17, 2010)

Excellent tech thread.


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## Alebob911 (Mar 22, 2007)

"MikeinBaja" said:


> Excellent tech thread.


I agree. Maybe sticky worthy?


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

RobertE said:


> What market are you in? USA is a bit vague.


cleveland  

sorry could not resist


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## susanandmark (Feb 15, 2007)

To update ... My husband got up on the roof this morning to try and put the dish back together after the tech left some hanging wires, didn't bolt back down the cover trough that fits over the coax, etc. Anyway, while he was up there I thought we should try the "is it the switch" test, just to confirm that was the problem. Well, hooked up direct to receiver, all transponders are active so, yeah, it is, by all appearances, the switch. 

New equipment is supposed to arrive later today or tomorrow, so we'll work on getting it put in and, fingers crossed, have everything up and running by weekend.

One more question for those in-the-know ... The signal strengths we currently have are a bit lower than before tech came out (even direct from dish, as we tried this AM). More high 80s and low 90s, vs most 95+ prior to "service" call. Should I worry about it or is that good enough? We did have few 96-98 readings, but most were more like 88-92 across the board on all positions.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

susanandmark said:


> One more question for those in-the-know ... The signal strengths we currently have are a bit lower than before tech came out (even direct from dish, as we tried this AM). More high 80s and low 90s, vs most 95+ prior to "service" call. Should I worry about it or is that good enough? We did have few 96-98 readings, but most were more like 88-92 across the board on all positions.


I wouldn't worry about those numbers. Let's see what you get after the hardware change.


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## susanandmark (Feb 15, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> I wouldn't worry about those numbers. Let's see what you get after the hardware change.


Thanks for your continued help. Will let you know how it all turns out!


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## admdata (Apr 22, 2011)

veryoldschool said:


> One or two of these would be so much easier:


Yes that is true VOS!!! and MUCH CHEAPER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## 714tips (Jul 22, 2011)

Wow I had to subscribe say this



1st. I understand the tech cuz I'm a tech myself dtv doesn't want to pay us for doing this type of work so it really stresses us out. 
That guy was there for about a 20$ service call which that's how dtv f us all

2nd. The switch is not your problem as it was working before it was touched. It's a connector(fitting) at the LNb. If u take the LNb of u will see a cable not pushed in all the eway

3rd. That guy made a very bad move just leaving. I hope you called dtv and gotten about 3 months free of Showtime or something.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

714tips said:


> Wow I had to subscribe say this
> 
> 1st. I understand the tech cuz I'm a tech myself dtv doesn't want to pay us for doing this type of work so it really stresses us out.
> That guy was there for about a 20$ service call which that's how dtv f us all
> ...


1st, I do understand

2nd, was eliminated when the coax were swapped and the problem stayed the same.
Since the LNB has been now tested with a receiver, it isn't the problem, which points to the WB616 not powering the LNB. I've lost track as to whether it was the 13 or 18 volt 22 KHz tone output that is defective.


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## susanandmark (Feb 15, 2007)

UPDATE from OP ... Got the parts Thursday, going to try and set up today. Assuming it works, will then will call DirecTV and tell my story to see if/how they can/will help me. If I wanted to pay for MRV am I right in that it will work on non-HR receivers. Like a H24 can access content recorded on the DVRs in the house? If true, might be worth it to add a receiver to one of our TVs that doesn't currently have sat access.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

susanandmark said:


> If I wanted to pay for MRV am I right in that it will work on non-HR receivers. Like a H24 can access content recorded on the DVRs in the house? If true, might be worth it to add a receiver to one of our TVs that doesn't currently have sat access.


Yes. From an earlier post your equipment currently installed: "We have three HR-20s, 1 HR-22 and 1 HR-24."

Once MRV is hooked up, each of your DVRs will be able to see each other and if you added an H24 (or H25 -- both available at SolidSignal for $99), those would be able to see/watch what you have on your other DVRs. And talk with DirecTV; you might get it cheaper than that.

But older DVRs (R16/R22) won't be able to watch from your other DVRs.

The H25 is small. like 5.5"x8.5" and about 1.25" depth.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

susanandmark said:


> UPDATE from OP ... Got the parts Thursday, going to try and set up today. Assuming it works, will then will call DirecTV and tell my story to see if/how they can/will help me. If I wanted to pay for MRV am I right in that it will work on non-HR receivers. Like a H24 can access content recorded on the DVRs in the house? If true, might be worth it to add a receiver to one of our TVs that doesn't currently have sat access.


Remember that everything but the 24 & 25 need to have a DECA connected:


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Pardon me if I missed it;

But in scanning through all the posts in this long thread, I didn't see if anyone asked the OP what exact model of HR20 she has or why.

If they are all HR20-700s she's good to go. If any of them are HR20-100s, then she does not yet have all the necessary parts for the install of the DECA portion of her upgrade unfortunately.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2456734#post2456734


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## GBFAN (Nov 13, 2006)

I wonder if the OP ever got everything set up........


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## susanandmark (Feb 15, 2007)

UPDATE: OP here, sorry I never posted again. Life got in the way of the TV. Priorities, I know. 

We got the switch up and running and it did solve our problem. Had some issues getting DECA together and will tackle that again when I have more time to troubleshoot/spend. Not urgent since we already have all receivers hooked to Internet and don't currently use/need MRV.


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