# Vizio to Stop making Plasma TV's



## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

02.11.2009 - Vizio is dropping out of the plasma TV market, The New York Times reports.

This comes just days after it was reported that Pioneer may also leave the plasma TV market. Vizio will continue to sell LCDs.

Vizio co-founder Laynie Newsome, according to The New York Times, says there were a couple reasons for this decision:

* Plasmas don't show as well in big-box stores, giving consumers the impression that LCDs have a better picture
 * Vizio wants to devote all available shelf space to technology that moves off the shelves fastest

Don't be fooled by the plasma models still listed on Vizio's Web site - its plasma inventory is basically dry.

The five-year-old company's first LED-backlit LCD will ship in July, while its first Blu-ray player will hit the market in May.

More HERE and HERE


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## mhayes70 (Mar 21, 2006)

:eek2: DANG!!! I hate to see that. I love my Vizio plasma.


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## dave29 (Feb 18, 2007)

man, i just hate to see everyone leaving the plasma market. i prefer a plasma to a comparable LCD anyday.


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## Sharkie_Fan (Sep 26, 2006)

dave29 said:


> man, i just hate to see everyone leaving the plasma market. i prefer a plasma to a comparable LCD anyday.


So do I.

And yet.... First of the year, the Mrs. and I decided to do some remodelling at the house. New floors were the big one, and since we had to move the behemoth rear projection TV out, we figured we'd put in a little bigger Plasma while we were at it.

I went to Costco, intending to buy a Vizio Plasma. They were out of stock, and the next two choices I made were also out of stock. So I was left to decide between a Panasonic plasma which was about $250 more than the Vizio, or go with an LCD.

While trying to decide whether to spend the extra bucks, the Costco "associate" spent 5 minutes or more trying to convince me that LCD was better. Trying to get me to stand back and tell me how the picture was better, and brighter and more vivid and whatever.... I pretty much tuned him out (and ended up spending the extra money).

At any rate, this guy was REALLY pushing the LCDs, in spite of the fact that I told him plainly I would be leaving the store with a Plasma or nothing.


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## xIsamuTM (Jul 8, 2008)

so... what's the diff between a plasma and LCD?


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## Cholly (Mar 22, 2004)

xIsamuTM said:


> so... what's the diff between a plasma and LCD?


Short answer: Plasmas have better black, but are subject to glare in a well lit room and generate more heat than LCD's.
LCD's are less sensitive to glare, are generally brighter, but as previously noted, don't render black as well as Plasmas.

There are other differences, but these are the ones that popped into my mind.


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## deltafowler (Aug 28, 2007)

xIsamuTM said:


> so... what's the diff between a plasma and LCD?


Very little anymore. Thus the migration away from Plasmas, which are heavier, hotter, and reflect ambient light to annoying levels.

There used to be vast difference, but LCD technology has progressed to the point that Plasmas are headed the way of the betamax and 8 track.


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## eahmjh (Dec 2, 2006)

I also beleive that most or all manufactures are dropping plasmas because of the huge power consumption and thus are not ECO friendly. When I worked part time at a big box store, I noticed that one 58" plasma used almost 700 watts of power. That is a lot.

Just my observation.


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## Sharkie_Fan (Sep 26, 2006)

I find that when watching hockey (or other fast moving sports), the picture on the Plasma is more appealing than the LCD. Even the new 120Mhz LCDs, IMO, weren't quite as good.

I wouldn't say the difference was HUGE, but it was enough that in my comparing of different TVs at different stores, I noticed it from time to time. And having noticed it, then I would be apt to watch for it - and notice it more - which would have driven me crazy. Especially since at least 50% of my own personal TV viewing is Sharks hockey.


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## dshu82 (Jul 6, 2007)

dave29 said:


> man, i just hate to see everyone leaving the plasma market. i prefer a plasma to a comparable LCD anyday.


Ditto, and I think my Vizio plasma was a great TV for the price.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Cholly said:


> Short answer: Plasmas have better black, but are subject to glare in a well lit room and generate more heat than LCD's.
> LCD's are less sensitive to glare, are generally brighter, but as previously noted, don't render black as well as Plasmas.
> 
> There are other differences, but these are the ones that popped into my mind.


Also, LCD's are much weaker at off axis viewing.


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## breadman43 (Mar 24, 2007)

dshu82 said:


> Ditto, and I think my Vizio plasma was a great TV for the price.


pleased with my 50" as well.


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## davring (Jan 13, 2007)

spartanstew said:


> Also, LCD's are much weaker at off axis viewing.


Not so true anymore with quality panels.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

davring said:


> Not so true anymore with quality panels.


That's what I thought too, until I read the latest edition of HomeTheater Magazine where they did a flat panel shootout between the Samsung LN55A950 (LCD), Panasonic Viera TH-50PZ800U (Plasma), Sony Bravia KDL-55XBR8 (LCD) and Pio Elite Pro-111FD (Plasma).

Both LCD displays were knocked for off-axis viewing. Here's some of the comments from the 4 people that viewed the shootout:

"While I know LCD sets suffer when viewed off axis, I was shocked at how little I had to move off center to see image degradation. The Samsung and Sony were side by side, and one seat was lined up dead center where the two sets met. Sitting in that seat, four picture heights away, it was almost impossible to even compare the two LCD's head to head because the off-axis performance of each was so affected."

"One of the biggest observations of the day was how the LCD TV's lost picture quality when viewed from even slightly off axis. Both the Sony and the Samsung lost black level when viewed from any seat that was not centered in front of the TV"

"I was also surprised at how much the picture degraded when I sat even just a little off axis."

"I could live with LCD sets if I could install a device that locked my head at an angle directly in front of them. Off axis, these things frankly got a little weird. Color shifted, light levels flattened out, shadow detail decreased, children cried, dogs started barking, horses ate each other. If you live alone and never move your body, then these are the sets for you."

I would think those two displays are considered quality panels and all the sets were properly calibrated.


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

Wal-Marts around here have a lot of Vizios, and in my experience, even the Sanyos have better PQ.


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## ImBack234 (Aug 26, 2008)

They should vizio is junk!!!:eek2:
(Maybe this one will stay!!!)


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## peano (Feb 1, 2004)

LCDs do a very poor job with SD material, along with the other drawbacks mentioned above.

I have yet to see an LCD that comes close to the PQ of a Pioneer plasma. They are still a LONG way off. Its really too bad the manufacturers are dumping plasma to push an inferior display.


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## bidger (Nov 19, 2005)

peano said:


> LCDs do a very poor job with SD material


BFD. I didn't buy mine to watch SD.


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## Cholly (Mar 22, 2004)

ImBack234 said:


> They should vizio is junk!!!:eek2:
> (Maybe this one will stay!!!)


Not so! Vizio, like all other manufacturers, does have a few low end models, but in general, their sets have gotten good ratings from the critics. I have a 37 inch Vizio 720p LCD receiver in my bedroom that performs very well.


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## bobukcat (Dec 20, 2005)

peano said:


> LCDs do a very poor job with SD material, along with the other drawbacks mentioned above.
> 
> I have yet to see an LCD that comes close to the PQ of a Pioneer plasma. They are still a LONG way off. Its really too bad the manufacturers are dumping plasma to push an inferior display.


Same here, another thing that LCD has just recently started catching up with is motion resolution and some of the expensive ones still don't produce as many lines during motion as a cheaper plasma.


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## ImBack234 (Aug 26, 2008)

paulman182 said:


> Wal-Marts around here have a lot of Vizios, and in my experience, even the Sanyos have better PQ.


:up:


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

The truth of the matter is no one can make and sell plasmas as cheaply as Panasonic. Plasma prices have been cut so low now that there are no margins to work with, and everyone's fleeing. First Sony, then Fujitsu, then Pioneer and now Vizio. A Panny 58" 1080p plasma can be found for $2300, and 50" for $1200-1300.

LCD's are getting really good, but I still haven't seen one with a comparable picture to a properly set-up plasma at the same price point. You typically have to spend a lot more for an LCD that looks as good as the same-sized plasma, IMO.

/steve


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## thumperr (Feb 10, 2006)

Inch for Inch, $ for $ i still like DLP


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Me too thumperr, me too.


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## jgriffin7 (Feb 16, 2007)

thumperr said:


> Inch for Inch, $ for $ i still like DLP


Hear, hear!


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## ImBack234 (Aug 26, 2008)

thumperr said:


> Inch for Inch, $ for $ i still like DLP


And you pay ever 2 years just for having it.:eek2:
No thanks.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Are you talking about the bulb?

Most will last 4-5 years (7000 hours). And even so, nowadays you can get bulbs for $200 or so and they bring the picture back to just like it was brand new. $500 or so extra over 10 years (an extra $4 per month) to have a like new picture the whole time is more than worth it to me. Especially when you consider the sets themselves are usually $500 - $1000 cheaper than their Plasma and/or LCD counterparts.

And in my case, when I bought my DLP in 2007 I bought an extended 5 year warranty from Tapeworks for $200, which includes any bulb replacements over that time period.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Steve said:


> The truth of the matter is no one can make and sell plasmas as cheaply as Panasonic. Plasma prices have been cut so low now that there are no margins to work with, and everyone's fleeing. First Sony, then Fujitsu, then Pioneer and now Vizio. A Panny 58" 1080p plasma can be found for $2300, and 50" for $1200-1300.
> 
> LCD's are getting really good, but I still haven't seen one with a comparable picture to a properly set-up plasma at the same price point. You typically have to spend a lot more for an LCD that looks as good as the same-sized plasma, IMO.
> 
> /steve


I've had Pioneers next to my Pannys at home and couldn't see any difference in PQ. Could see a big diff in price, tho. Quickly took the Pioneers back. Brought home a 50" Vizio and put it next to one of my Panny 50"ers and the difference was clearly evident. Brought the Vizio back. Bought a Phillips 50" and put it next to a Panny and couldn't believe what a crappy picture the Phillips put out. Brought that back and stopped screwing around with other brands. Just bought my sixth Panny plasma and couldn't be happier with the PQ.

I did try the LCDs and I will say that they make excellent computer monitors. The inability to see a clear picture from all angles is too much for me to take. And watching a runner steal second was a hoot. Looked like a color picture from one of those 1918 projectors. Stop, go, stop, go, stop, go and he finally made second. Tried a high rated Samsung and took it back. Tried a Sony and took it back. Tried the most expensive Vizio LCD that Costco had and couldn't believe how bad the SD picture was. Shrug off SD all you want, but I watch and enjoy BBCA and it is only in SD and my Panny plasmas put out as good an SD picture as my $4000 40" Sony CRT did.

Just checked out the new 120 megahertz LCDs this last weekend and as soon as I moved a bit to the side the picture faded considerably. The salesman told me that was an "optical illusion" and I would get used to it. For well over $2000, ya gotta "get used to it"? Perhaps the backlit with LEDs will be better, but I'd have to see it.

The DLPs fade too much for me too. My neighbor has a 62" Toshiba DLP and you have to be sitting precisely (or close to precisely) in front of it. He does have two couches, one in front of the other for viewing.

When it comes to TVs, it's all about the PQ for me. And the Pannys come out of the box needing hardly any adjustments. That Phillips plasma I had had to be readjusted just about every time I changed channels.

The plasmas do use more juice than the LEDs, but I don't care enough about saving energy to suffer with those things. I let my wife pay the power bill. She hasn't complained yet.

I don't remember the size of the Vizio LCD, but when I hooked it up to my computer the display was great. Lot of money to pay for a monitor tho.

Out of all the TVs I've tried in the last couple years, the Phillips was, by far, the worst plasma. The Vizio was better than the Phillips, but nowhere near the Panny's PQ. Never have had a Samsung anything that I was satisfied with.

Whew, didn't mean to go on like that. By the way, before I bought my first Panny plasma, I did not have a good opinion of anything Panasonic made. Changed my mind, I did.

Rich


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## BubblePuppy (Nov 3, 2006)

spartanstew said:


> Are you talking about the bulb?
> 
> Most will last 4-5 years (7000 hours). And even so, nowadays you can get bulbs for $200 or so and they bring the picture back to just like it was brand new. $500 or so extra over 10 years (an extra $4 per month) to have a like new picture the whole time is more than worth it to me. Especially when you consider the sets themselves are usually $500 - $1000 cheaper than their Plasma and/or LCD counterparts.
> 
> And in my case, when I bought my DLP in 2007 I bought an extended 5 year warranty from Tapeworks for $200, which includes any bulb replacements over that time period.


 Wait a minute. You bought a 5 year extended warrenty for $200 that includes a replacement bulb that would cost $200?? And, according to your post, the bulb will outlast you extended warrenty.


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## dpd146 (Oct 1, 2005)

I have both and prefer the plasma. I feel like I am looking at a computer screen when I watch my LCD. I bought my plasma over 3 years ago and they were talking about plasmas going away back then. I don't think they are going anywhere soon.

I am not a big fan of the rear projection DLP's but I have a DLP front projector and love it. As someone mentioned the bulb replacing thing is not good. I am looking at $350 to replace the one in my projector.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

BubblePuppy said:


> Wait a minute. You bought a 5 year extended warrenty for $200 that includes a replacement bulb that would cost $200?? And, according to your post, the bulb will outlast you extended warrenty.


Correct. The extended warranty isn't just for the bulb, it's for anything. The fact that the bulb (actually 2 bulb changes) is included was a bonus, just in case I don't get as much life out of the bulb as I would expect. BTW, the extended warranty is added onto the 1 year manufacturers warranty, so for $200 I'm assured of having a perfectly working TV for at least the next 6 years. I'm kind of hoping the bulb will go out at about the 5 year mark, in which case I'll be good for 9 or 10 years bulb wise. Still confused?


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## BubblePuppy (Nov 3, 2006)

spartanstew said:


> Correct. The extended warranty isn't just for the bulb, it's for anything. The fact that the bulb (*actually 2 bulb changes)* is included was a bonus, just in case I don't get as much life out of the bulb as I would expect. BTW, the extended warranty is added onto the 1 year manufacturers warranty, so for $200 I'm assured of having a perfectly working TV for at least the next 6 years. I'm kind of hoping the bulb will go out at about the 5 year mark, in which case I'll be good for 9 or 10 years bulb wise. Still confused?


2 bulb changes? In 5 years? 
Seems like a major pain the a$$.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

When I asked if you were still confused, you should have just said "yes".

I don't anticipate needing to replace the bulb twice in 5 years. I don't even anticipate needing to replace it once. However, IF the need arises (we decide to leave the TV on 12 hours per day every day, defective bulb, etc.), I'm covered. And even if I do end up replacing it twice in 2 years, I've never considered replacing a bulb to be a major pain in the a$$. It's no more painful than replacing the batteries in a remote control (or changing a light bulb), but I guess we all have different pain thresholds.


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## bobukcat (Dec 20, 2005)

BubblePuppy said:


> 2 bulb changes? In 5 years?
> Seems like a major pain the a$$.


It's not really as the set (well, most anyway) warn you that it needs to be changed before it actually burns out. I'm not sure I would repeat it (I will never, and I mean NEVER buy another Mits electronics product - but I digress) but when I bought my 62" DLP 4 years ago getting anything close to the same size in Plasma or LCD (and the LCDs then had really crappy PQ IMO) would have cost twice as much. You can't mount them to the wall but they have gotten thiner and off-axis viewing in the horizontal plane is better than just about anything except plasma or CRT. Considering you can get a 60+" 1080P display for under $1500 there is something to be said for them.

Is the picture as good as a Kuro, not even, but bang for the buck remains pretty high.


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## Wukillabeez78 (Aug 13, 2008)

ImBack234 said:


> And you pay ever 2 years just for having it.:eek2:
> No thanks.


You don't have to worry about changing out the bulb if you get one of Samsung DLP TV's with the LED bulbs in it. The LED bulb lasts the life of the TV and is a thousand times better than the DLP TV's with the old lamp-based bulbs you guys are referring to. Built in motion-blur, no worry about screen burn in. Mine has been great but the only con like someone said is that it doesn't have as wide a viewing angle as plasma so if your setup includes EXTREME seating angles you might not want one.

Plasma is a dying technology, another 10 years and they won't be sold for the general consumer anymore. My major complaint with plasma has always been that the picture degrades slowly after time and eventually degrades completely. You can't fix it either, when it's done it's done. Even after 7 or 8 years the picture on the plasmas I've seen that old have degraded to a point where the picture is noticeably not as bright. Plus even though plasma has gotten better it still is prone to screen burn it, something that isn't a worry with LCD or DLP LED's.

I've also had no problems with my LCD TVs. The viewing angle on them hasn't been a problem for me at all and I have no problems with motion blur (Sony now has LCD's out that have 240hz technology in case the 120hz isn't enough for some people)...


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## ImBack234 (Aug 26, 2008)

spartanstew said:


> Are you talking about the bulb?
> 
> Most will last 4-5 years (7000 hours). And even so, nowadays you can get bulbs for $200 or so and they bring the picture back to just like it was brand new. $500 or so extra over 10 years (an extra $4 per month) to have a like new picture the whole time is more than worth it to me. Especially when you consider the sets themselves are usually $500 - $1000 cheaper than their Plasma and/or LCD counterparts.
> 
> And in my case, when I bought my DLP in 2007 I bought an extended 5 year warranty from Tapeworks for $200, which includes any bulb replacements over that time period.


Wow I don't want to shop where you do. From what I've seen about bulbs is 1 1/2 maybe 2 years if your lucky.:eek2:



spartanstew said:


> BTW, the extended warranty is added onto the 1 year manufacturers warranty, so for $200 I'm assured of having a perfectly working TV for at least the next 6 years. I'm kind of hoping the bulb will go out at about the 5 year mark, in which case I'll be good for 9 or 10 years bulb wise. Still confused?


In my neck of the words extended warranties include the manufacturers warranty. But good luck with that bulb.


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## Lincoln6Echo (Jul 11, 2007)

spartanstew said:


> That's what I thought too, until I read the latest edition of HomeTheater Magazine where they did a flat panel shootout between the Samsung LN55A950 (LCD), Panasonic Viera TH-50PZ800U (Plasma), Sony Bravia KDL-55XBR8 (LCD) and Pio Elite Pro-111FD (Plasma).
> 
> Both LCD displays were knocked for off-axis viewing. Here's some of the comments from the 4 people that viewed the shootout:
> 
> ...


That's strange as my 1.5 year old Sharp Aquos only gets distorted as you move in close and at a severe off-axis angle to the side. And that's because of the backlight effects. At a distance there's no distortion whatsoever. Hell, my 24" monitor on my computer is worse than that. You move your head just slightly off center and the backlight effect explodes.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

ImBack234 said:


> Wow I don't want to shop where you do. From that I've seen about bulbs is 1 1/2 maybe 2 years if your lucky.:eek2:


Then perhaps you do want to shop where I do.



ImBack234 said:


> In my neck of the words extended warranties include the manufacturers warranty. But good luck with that bulb.


I don't know where your neck of the woods is, but my advice would be to venture outside of your surroundings occasionally. The world wide web is a fabulous place and it's not restricted to "your neck of the woods". You might want to Google "TapeWorks Texas". They sell extended warranties and are the preferred provider of them over at this websites sister site, AVS. Thousands of members there have purchased warranties from Tapeworks. Once you Google it, you'll see that their warranties begin AFTER the manufacturers warranty ends.

So again, perhaps you do want to shop where I do. Your bulbs will last longer and the warranties are better. Of course, it'll mean leaving "your neck of the woods" to do so, so tread with caution.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Lincoln6Echo said:


> That's strange as my 1.5 year old Sharp Aquos only gets distorted as you move in close and at a severe off-axis angle to the side. And that's because of the backlight effects. At a distance there's no distortion whatsoever. Hell, my 24" monitor on my computer is worse than that. You move your head just slightly off center and the backlight effect explodes.


Yes, that shoot-out surprised me too. I thought LCD had gotten better in that regard (from what I've read), but apparently not in all cases.


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## steelhorse (Apr 27, 2004)

Plasma is a dying technology, another 10 years and they won't be sold for the general consumer anymore. My major complaint with plasma has always been that the picture degrades slowly after time and eventually degrades completely. You can't fix it either, when it's done it's done. Even after 7 or 8 years the picture on the plasmas I've seen that old have degraded to a point where the picture is noticeably not as bright. Plus even though plasma has gotten better it still is prone to screen burn it, something that isn't a worry with LCD or DLP LED's. 


The new plasmas advertise 60000 hour panel life. I think that means before they lose half the brightness. 60000 hours is a long time!


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## ImBack234 (Aug 26, 2008)

Do a side by side comparison with any quality tv you will find no reason to buy them. If you still do on your way out of walmart stop at the eye doctor.:eek2: The eye doctor is cheap too and again you get what you pay for.:eek2:

Also looking locally (Sam's Club/ Walmart) I find vizio prices comparable with other tv of the same size. :eek2:
So I'll continue shopping where I do and find more realistic pricing.


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## Wukillabeez78 (Aug 13, 2008)

steelhorse said:


> The new plasmas advertise 60000 hour panel life. I think that means before they lose half the brightness. 60000 hours is a long time!


I think that it's the total time the panel can be expected to last and that they lose half their brightness at 30,000 hours. You can notice the degradation before it reaches it's halfway point though, for the average consumer after 7 or 8 years you're about at that point.


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## ImBack234 (Aug 26, 2008)

Vizio vs. Olevia LCD HDTV Shootout


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## bobukcat (Dec 20, 2005)

Wukillabeez78 said:


> I think that it's the total time the panel can be expected to last and that they lose half their brightness at 30,000 hours. You can notice the degradation before it reaches it's halfway point though, for the average consumer after 7 or 8 years you're about at that point.


If the set is on for 8 hours a day everyday you will reach 60K hours in 20.5 years and 30K hours in 10.25 years. I don't know how long the "average consumer" watches or games on a TV every day. I would suspect that families with children have them on for more than 8 hours a day but that may also be spread out over a few different TVs. For me it's probably going to be on 5-6 hours most days and longer on some weekends but hardly ever on weekends and weeknights during the summer. I'll be surprised if something else doesn't fail before the panel reaches half brightness.


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

bobukcat said:


> If the set is on for 8 hours a day everyday you will reach 60K hours in 20.5 years and 30K hours in 10.25 years. I don't know how long the "average consumer" watches or games on a TV every day. I would suspect that families with children have them on for more than 8 hours a day but that may also be spread out over a few different TVs. For me it's probably going to be on 5-6 hours most days and longer on some weekends but hardly ever on weekends and weeknights during the summer. I'll be surprised if something else doesn't fail before the panel reaches half brightness.


My main TV is generally on 12 hours per day, but it still takes about 7 years to reach 30,000 hours.

We have a 60-inch Sony Plasma at work that has been on constantly for six years. It is used as a computer display so I can't really say how it would look with TV programming, but I'd be very surprised to find out that it has decreased in brightness by 50% since new (back when it cost almost $10,000.)


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

bobukcat said:


> If the set is on for 8 hours a day everyday you will reach 60K hours in 20.5 years and 30K hours in 10.25 years. I don't know how long the "average consumer" watches or games on a TV every day. I would suspect that families with children have them on for more than 8 hours a day but that may also be spread out over a few different TVs. For me it's probably going to be on 5-6 hours most days and longer on some weekends but hardly ever on weekends and weeknights during the summer. I'll be surprised if something else doesn't fail before the panel reaches half brightness.


Panasonic put out a statement last year that stated that their older plasmas were good for 25 years and the new ones for 42 years. That is factoring in six hours of viewing a day.

In the last two years I have given away about 8 or 9 CRT TVs and I have a feeling that I will be giving the plasmas away in a couple of years and upgrading.

I think those horribly heavy CRTs would have lasted forever. I like it when things are shot after a couple two three years and I get to go shopping for new stuff. Used to be if you bought a new TV and got a couple years out of it you were doing good. Now the damn things last forever.

Rich


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## TSR (Feb 7, 2009)

I have a 32" Dynex HD TV that my wife bought while I was in Iraq.

I just wish she would have involved me more (if possible) in the decision, but it wasn't a bad deal for $500 really, so I can't complain. As long as she is happy I suppose...


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

I've got six Panny plasmas, two 42", one 58", three 50". The last one I bought is a 1080p and I had to change the tint a tad. Just a hair. Aside from that, my other five came out of the box and played with perfect PQ without any adjustments. 

I think PQ is pretty subjective. But every other HD TV I've tried, I had to spend some time adjusting the picture. A 50" Phillips plasma I bought, I had to adjust every time I changed channels. That was the worst. 

Next worse was a Samsung LCD (forget the size, but it wasn't huge). Would have made a great computer monitor, but a real disappointment as a HD TV. Tried a Vizio plasma and an LCD. Compared to a Panny plasma, the Vizio plasma was terrible and the LCD? Fuhgeddabout it. Awful SD, poor HD. Hooked it up to a computer and it did make a passable monitor.

Just some thoughts, don't want to argue. I think this is too subjective to argue about.

Rich


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