# HD local rollout plan



## kstevens (Mar 26, 2003)

Anyone have an updated HD local rollout plan? I thought I had seen one on this site before, but couldn't find it.

Thanks,


Ken


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## BFG (Jan 23, 2004)

3 markets are being added this fall

indy, raleigh, and another one (probably pittsburgh, cause it was listed on a map being displayed at the team summit.

that's it for now


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## boatdrink (Aug 20, 2004)

From reading the headlines today it looks like Direct TV is edging out dish in picking up the local HD markets. Why is Dish so far behind?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Here's the thread ...
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=54667

The delay is odd. Earlier this year E* was rolling out markets quickly - now, not so much and D*'s announcement that they will serve 74% of the US population with HD locals isn't good for E*.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

boatdrink said:


> From reading the headlines today it looks like Direct TV is edging out dish in picking up the local HD markets. Why is Dish so far behind?


Probably a business decision as much as anything. The DNS issue has likely forced Dish to concentrate on finishing out their SD lineups in the 41 markets that they aren't SD LIL yet. DirecTV may be getting similar heat soon.

If you ask the people over at D* what they want, it is national HD. The grass is always greener...

Having seen much of what the Fall network television season has to offer, I submit that E* made the correct decision; especially since the move of Monday Night Football to ESPN and the popularity of serials on HBO and Showtime.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

While I look forward to Raleigh HD locals on Dish so that when I get my ViP622 I can record more than one show at a time off the major locals... I am happily watching OTA HD right now just fine.

So, given the choice of more national channels, or regional sports networks in HD, vs locals in HD... I would rather have the nationals/regionals.

Many folks who had trouble getting SD locals OTA in the past are able to get HD locals OTA (like me for instance) just fine and nice and sharp, much sharper than they will be on satellite... so there is not as big a push for the locals in HD yet.

I agree that Dish has made the better choice to focus on nationals first, locals in HD second.


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## Newshawk (Sep 3, 2004)

harsh said:


> Having seen much of what the Fall network television season has to offer, I submit that E* made the correct decision; especially since the move of Monday Night Football to ESPN and the popularity of serials on HBO and Showtime.


The funny thing is, D* has all three of the channels you cite in HD, so what's the difference?


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Newshawk said:


> The funny thing is, D* has all three of the channels you cite in HD, so what's the difference?


That local channels, save possibly ABC, aren't providing content that is as compelling as the national channels. With the exception of the odd sporting event, there's been more lusting after Voom's Monster channel than there has been of anything on NBC.


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## Wicker 54 (May 7, 2006)

When do you think the Evansville Ind area will get HD ?


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Wicker 54 said:


> When do you think the Evansville Ind area will get HD ?


Evansville is Nielsen market 111, so you should invest in a suitable OTA antenna.


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## nazz (May 4, 2006)

My problem is that OTA is not a viable option for me and my Indy market HD has been uplinked since May. It wouldn't seem that difficult to at least get those three markets going. I can more understand a delay in getting more uplinked but this is just getting frustrating.


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## archer75 (Oct 13, 2006)

boatdrink said:


> From reading the headlines today it looks like Direct TV is edging out dish in picking up the local HD markets. Why is Dish so far behind?


They're behind? Direct TV doesn't even offer HD Locals in Portland, OR. Yet Dish has for months now. And from what i'm seeing so far it seems Direct TV is way behind in HD locals.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

It's a regional thing. E* had a long list of markets they were going to have up by the end of the year yet it has been several months since they added the last two markets and there are two uplinked markets still waiting to be activated.

D* just published a huge list for their next round. Of course you have to get their nasty dish to get the HD locals, but apparently those monsters work.

E* will catch up ... not sure why they are not moving now, but they will come.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

archer75 said:


> They're behind? Direct TV doesn't even offer HD Locals in Portland, OR. Yet Dish has for months now. And from what i'm seeing so far it seems Direct TV is way behind in HD locals.


DirectTV has rolled out some locals in almost twice as many markets. They seem to have a little more trouble that Dish Network with getting all of the stations going at once.

D* put up two Portland stations about three weeks ago. The are also lagging strangely behind in Seattle where they also have two stations (compared to Dish Network's four in both markets for quite a while now).

Dish is currently getting after SD locals in some of the smaller markets to avoid problems with customers who would otherwise need distants. DirecTV, on the other hand, is building out HD while neglecting almost entirely the many SD markets that remain unserved.


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## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

harsh said:


> DirectTV has rolled out some locals in almost twice as many markets. They seem to have a little more trouble that Dish Network with getting all of the stations going at once.
> 
> D* put up two Portland stations about three weeks ago. The are also lagging strangely behind in Seattle where they also have two stations (compared to Dish Network's four in both markets for quite a while now).
> 
> Dish is currently getting after SD locals in some of the smaller markets to avoid problems with customers who would otherwise need distants. DirecTV, on the other hand, is building out HD while neglecting almost entirely the many SD markets that remain unserved.


Twice as many? Not by my count, but D* is well ahead at the moment. I agree that E* is probably working more to settle the DNS issue by adding SD Locals.


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## blueeyedman196 (Mar 13, 2006)

how bout greenville sc hds


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## jerseyfla (May 12, 2006)

The Tampa-St. Petersburg HD locals NEED to be done before these other smaller markets like Tulsa, Norfolk, Greenville, or Burlington. I really don't feel like moving my service address to Miami but I may have to just to see the Super Bowl in HD this February. My service address is only 10 miles or so from WTSP's transmitter in Holiday so I doubt they will give me a waiver for WCBS-DT and my real address is like 50 miles away from WKMG's transmitter in East Orlando so there is no shot of getting any CBS in HD unless I switch my address to Broward or Dade County.


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## BFG (Jan 23, 2004)

Why don't you just put up an antenna since you're so close


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## jerseyfla (May 12, 2006)

BFG said:


> Why don't you just put up an antenna since you're so close


Sorry, I didn't post more details. I live on Patrick Air Force Base, we are not allowed to put up outdoor antennas so my only option is indoor which I only get Orlando NBC affiliate WESH-DT, but just barely. I don't like any of the Orlando stations except ABC affiliate WFTV for news, so my service address is my parents house near Tampa. Tampa is not on the list for HD locals current or future so my only option is "moving" my service address again but to Miami-Ft. Lauderdale area, I don't have relatives there anymore to use for an address so now I'm thinking since Philly HD locals are not on spotbeam yet, I may go that route since my in-laws live across the river in New Jersey.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

jerseyfla said:


> Sorry, I didn't post more details. I live on Patrick Air Force Base, we are not allowed to put up outdoor antennas so my only option is indoor which I only get Orlando NBC affiliate WESH-DT, but just barely. I don't like any of the Orlando stations except ABC affiliate WFTV for news, so my service address is my parents house near Tampa. Tampa is not on the list for HD locals current or future so my only option is "moving" my service address again but to Miami-Ft. Lauderdale area, I don't have relatives there anymore to use for an address so now I'm thinking since Philly HD locals are not on spotbeam yet, I may go that route since my in-laws live across the river in New Jersey.


At the risk of stirring a hornet's nest here in regards to people who are sensitive to "moving"... if you're living on an air force base, then that tends to mean either you or a family member is in the air force, doesn't it? In which case... is it really a good thing for a military officer to have an account with Dish that contains intentionally fraudulent information?

Staying away from the moral and legal implications we normally discuss... if caught, it seems like this sort of thing would be frowned upon by the military. They could hardly be shown to support officers or families on-base lying I would think.

Might not be the best idea to be posting about on a public form is all I'm saying... though I've gone on record in the past as being opposed to the "movers" as well.


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## saltrek (Oct 22, 2005)

jerseyfla said:


> Sorry, I didn't post more details. I live on Patrick Air Force Base, we are not allowed to put up outdoor antennas so my only option is indoor which I only get Orlando NBC affiliate WESH-DT, but just barely. I don't like any of the Orlando stations except ABC affiliate WFTV for news, so my service address is my parents house near Tampa. Tampa is not on the list for HD locals current or future so my only option is "moving" my service address again but to Miami-Ft. Lauderdale area, I don't have relatives there anymore to use for an address so now I'm thinking since Philly HD locals are not on spotbeam yet, I may go that route since my in-laws live across the river in New Jersey.


I'm surprised you have that much trouble. I live across the river from PAFB and was able to get all the stations with a bow tie antenna, as long as I moved it around. I finally got tired of that and put up an outdoor.


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## fsquid (Aug 30, 2006)

How Raleigh is getting it before Charlotte blows my mind!


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

fsquid said:


> How Raleigh is getting it before Charlotte blows my mind!


You say that mainly because you are in Charlotte... folks in Raleigh would likely say it makes perfect sense 

Raleigh is the capitol city after all! Plus, keep in mind that even though Charlotte has more population than Raleigh... the "Raleigh" DMA may very well have more population than the "Charlotte" DMA.

BUT... even though it will be cool and all... I again echo what I've always said that to truly serve "the people" Dish and DirecTV should first add locals in markets where people have the most trouble getting them... I have no problems in Raleigh, and I bet similar results in Charlotte too... but the business truth is they will add where they can make the most money first.


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## chuckf1 (Aug 27, 2006)

fsquid said:


> How Raleigh is getting it before Charlotte blows my mind!


Well I live in Charlotte too and I think it just blows that Raleigh is getting HD locals before we do. Even though Raleigh is the capitol city, Charlotte is the biggest city in N.C. We are the #27 television market while Raleigh is the 29th largest market.

If anyone from E* is reading this post and wants to pickup a customer for sure in Charlotte, then let us have our locals in HD and I'm there for you.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Maybe also worth mentioning... WRAL-5 in Raleigh was the first HD channel in the US to broadcast in HD... before many markets larger had HD, Raleigh had it!

Also worth noting... of the big 4 (ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX) Our local ABC (WTVD-11) is owned by ABC, our local NBC (WNCN-17) is owned by NBC, and the other two (CBS WRAL-5 and FOX WRAZ-50) are owned by one company... so when it comes to negotiations for carriage, Raleigh is pretty easy to negotiate. ABC and NBC should be practically "gimmes" and just one station to negotiate with for CBS and FOX.

I suspect that helps Raleigh to be an early market to launch on satellite as a result.


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## nazz (May 4, 2006)

HDMe said:


> At the risk of stirring a hornet's nest here in regards to people who are sensitive to "moving"... if you're living on an air force base, then that tends to mean either you or a family member is in the air force, doesn't it? In which case... is it really a good thing for a military officer to have an account with Dish that contains intentionally fraudulent information?
> 
> Staying away from the moral and legal implications we normally discuss... if caught, it seems like this sort of thing would be frowned upon by the military. They could hardly be shown to support officers or families on-base lying I would think.
> 
> Might not be the best idea to be posting about on a public form is all I'm saying... though I've gone on record in the past as being opposed to the "movers" as well.


You know...this post got me to thinking about something. Wouldn't it be a great idea if they'd waive the regulations for military bases and allow our enlisted people to receive locals from close to home? It would allow them a taste of home while serving their country to see local news and sports from where they're from. I certainly wouldn't mind them being made the exception to rules that apply to me. It's the modern day equivalent of having their home town paper sent to them.


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## jerseyfla (May 12, 2006)

nazz said:


> You know...this post got me to thinking about something. Wouldn't it be a great idea if they'd waive the regulations for military bases and allow our enlisted people to receive locals from close to home? It would allow them a taste of home while serving their country to see local news and sports from where they're from. I certainly wouldn't mind them being made the exception to rules that apply to me. It's the modern day equivalent of having their home town paper sent to them.


My thoughts exactly!! I know that the higher ups at Dish, DTV, and FCC wouldn't fall for it but wouldn't it be great.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

nazz said:


> You know...this post got me to thinking about something. Wouldn't it be a great idea if they'd waive the regulations for military bases and allow our enlisted people to receive locals from close to home? It would allow them a taste of home while serving their country to see local news and sports from where they're from. I certainly wouldn't mind them being made the exception to rules that apply to me. It's the modern day equivalent of having their home town paper sent to them.


That's an idea so good that I wish I had thought of it!

Seriously... I don't mind giving our military folks some perks for the job they do... and this is the kind of thing that might help someone stay in touch virtually a bit with home if they could get locals from back home no matter where they are stationed.

Some logistic problems would come up with locals that are only on spotbeams... but if there were no technical limitation to the reception of a signal, I think this would be a good thing to grant a waiver for... and from a publicity standpoint I would think networks would come off looking good for granting such a waiver to enlisted men/women.


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## derwin0 (Jan 31, 2005)

nazz said:


> You know...this post got me to thinking about something. Wouldn't it be a great idea if they'd waive the regulations for military bases and allow our enlisted people to receive locals from close to home? It would allow them a taste of home while serving their country to see local news and sports from where they're from. I certainly wouldn't mind them being made the exception to rules that apply to me. It's the modern day equivalent of having their home town paper sent to them.


Military personnel can do that easy, just use their permanent home address. Spotbeams will kill that for the most part though.


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## derwin0 (Jan 31, 2005)

chuckf1 said:


> Even though Raleigh is the capitol city, Charlotte is the biggest city in N.C. We are the #27 television market while Raleigh is the 29th largest market.


 27 & 29 are not that far apart. Being the state capital could easily outweigh 2 places on the chart, not to mention Sat. penetration amounts. Raliegh could currently have more Dish customers than Charlotte, and that would effect the decision.


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## slowmo (Sep 22, 2006)

derwin0 said:


> 27 & 29 are not that far apart. Being the state capital could easily outweigh 2 places on the chart, not to mention Sat. penetration amounts. Raliegh could currently have more Dish customers than Charlotte, and that would effect the decision.


Actually, the Raleigh / Triad area is generally accepted as having a more intelligent / educated population as compared to the land of Tammy Faye / Hugh McColl worshippers.


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## Cholly (Mar 22, 2004)

slowmo said:


> Actually, the Raleigh / Triad area is generally accepted as having a more intelligent / educated population as compared to the land of Tammy Faye / Hugh McColl worshippers.


That's sure to evoke an unacceptable political argument. :lol: 
Actually, what you say may once have been true, but now that Charlotte is the #2 financial center in the U.S., things have changed significantly. Granted, some of the high tech companies have abandoned the Charlotte area, but the same is true in the Triad, as far as I know.

As I understand it, there are several factors governing the provision of locals in a given market. 
* The number of subscribers in the market.
* Contract agreements with the stations involved, including feeds to an uplink center.
* Availability of spotbeams covering a given area.
* Priorities established by the dbs provider -- who gets served first. Much of this is based on simple economics. It costs a LOT to establish uplinks.

For example -- in the Charlotte DMA, both D* and E* provide locals, but only D* provides locals in HD, having done so just recently. I'm sure you'll find many areas in the country that have HD locals from one of the satellite providers, but not the other.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

slowmo said:


> Actually, the Raleigh / Triad area


Actually... Raleigh (with Durham and Chapel Hill) are referred to as the "Triangle" area. The "Triad" is Winston-Salem, Greensboro, and High Point I believe.

Though I still, even as a lifelong NC resident, continue to wonder why the fascination with making triangles on the map! Why not a square region? Or an irregular shape? Or a trapezoid or something?


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## chuckf1 (Aug 27, 2006)

slowmo said:


> Actually, the Raleigh / Triad area is generally accepted as having a more intelligent / educated population as compared to the land of Tammy Faye / Hugh McColl worshippers.


Tammy Faye lives elsewhere and Hugh McColl is retired. I guess news gets to the Triad (actually the Triangle) area more slowly. :lol:


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