# Does Sony Bravia support 1080p/24



## cycomyco (Mar 16, 2007)

I have the Sony Bravia XBR3 and Dad has the XBR4 or 5. Anyone know if these TVs support 1080p/24 ? and what will that mean for the future ? Thanks


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

cycomyco said:


> I have the Sony Bravia XBR3 and Dad has the XBR4 or 5. Anyone know if these TVs support 1080p/24 ? and what will that mean for the future ? Thanks


I have a XBR2 and called Sony. "Sony says" the XBR3 doesn't and the XBR4 does.
Sony has no plans to "fix" our TVs, even though they didn't list them as anything but 1080p, instead of 1080p/60.


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## Brian Hanasky (Feb 22, 2008)

I have a Sony KDL 40V2500. I called Sony and the rep told me that it would support the 1080/24p. I am not networked yet so it really doesn't matter yet but I called out of curiosity.


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## khigerd (Dec 20, 2007)

Mine does 1080p/24 very well.


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## cygnusloop (Jan 26, 2007)

It depends on your model, not the Bravia (or XBR) badge. 

Some models do, some don't. Some will accept a 24Hz input, but apply an internal 2:3 pulldown, and display it at the native refresh of 60Hz. Some will accept the 24Hz input and properly display it with a 4:4 or 5:5 pulldown at 96Hz or 120Hz respectively.

VOS is correct about the XBR's, however.

That said, I wouldn't worry about it too much. All of the XBR's are excellent HDTV's, and excel in many areas, such as color depth, color accuracy, and contrast ratio. These qualities are far, far more important in producing a quality picture than the ability to accept or display 24Hz material.


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## rsonnens (Nov 8, 2006)

Brian Hanasky said:


> I have a Sony KDL 40V2500. I called Sony and the rep told me that it would support the 1080/24p. I am not networked yet so it really doesn't matter yet but I called out of curiosity.


Rep is wrong. This set only supports a 60hz input.


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

There are 3 categories of HDTVs for the purposes of this issue:

1. Doesn't accept 1080/24p input signals. HD-DVR must convert signal to 1080/60i.

2. Accepts 1080/24p input signals, but internally converts to 1080/60 to work with fixed 60 Hz refresh rate panel.

3. Accepts 1080/24p input signals and has a "multiple of 24" panel refresh rate (48, 72, 96, or 120 Hz refresh) so that it can actually display each frame for 1/24th of a second. Usually requires turning OFF "motion smoothing" processing ("MotionFlow" on Sonys) on the TV.

The majority of HDTVs in use today are of the first category, but as HDTV sales continue, they will soon be the minority.

Higher-end TVs made since 2004 or so are usually in the second category, with most 2007 & 2008 models supporting 1080/24p input signals. It is becoming a "standard feature".

Some higher-end TVs made in 2007 are in the third category. Many more mid-high and high-end 2008 TVs are in the third category. Over the next few years, this will evolve into a "standard" feature on most HDTVs.

Anyway, it is important to understand what it means to "support" 1080/24p. There really isn't much difference between the first category (no support) and the second category (supports input signal but requires internal conversion), as the only difference is WHERE the signal is converted; in the DVR or the TV.

It isn't until you get to the third category that you get some substantial benefit, *aside* from the benefit that everyone will get from the higher effective bitrates you get with the 1080p content.


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## Spanky_Partain (Dec 7, 2006)

My Sony KDL-32XBR4 does work for 1080p/24.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Don't forget to add: 
all DVRs (DTV or Dish) required positive HDCP handshake and acceptable data from TV set. Unfortunately "acceptable data" doesn't disclosing by sat providers and cannot be verified by third party.


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## rsonnens (Nov 8, 2006)

IIP said:


> There are 3 categories of HDTVs for the purposes of this issue:
> 
> 2. Accepts 1080/24p input signals, but internally converts to 1080/60 to work with fixed 60 Hz refresh rate panel.
> 
> ...


Not sure what you mean by "higher-end" but most sets prior to last year did not accept 1080p/24hz signals. However many sets, including the Sony Bravia 40v2500(*) and I believe the XBR 3, do a _reverse pulldown_ which recognizes a 24fps source material encoded in a 60hz signal and somehow displays it better than without doing any tinkering. Since Sony does not say what they actually do, and it may differ by set, I won't go as far as saying that it actually displays this material on the panel as a multiple of 24hz but I suspect it does--other than adding in motion blur (which I doubt) I can't see what else they could do.

I believe that sets doing a reverse pulldown is far more common than accepting 24hz source and converting it to 60hz (I am not aware of sets do # 2 although many [all?] BlueRay players do it when outputting 60hz from 24pfs source.)

For more info on reverse pulldown click here.

(*) On the Sony KDL-40v2500 spec sheet they call it _CineMotion® Reverse 3:2 Pulldown Technology_.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

rsonnens said:


> Not sure what you mean by "higher-end" but most sets prior to last year did not accept 1080p/24hz signals. However many sets, including the Sony Bravia 40v2500(*) and I believe the XBR 3, do a _reverse pulldown_ which recognizes a 24fps source material encoded in a 60hz signal and somehow displays it better than without doing any tinkering. Since Sony does not say what they actually do, and it may differ by set, I won't go as far as saying that it actually displays this material on the panel as a multiple of 24hz but I suspect it does--other than adding in motion blur (which I doubt) I can't see what else they could do.
> 
> I believe that sets doing a reverse pulldown is far more common than accepting 24hz source and converting it to 60hz (I am not aware of sets do # 2 although many [all?] BlueRay players do it when outputting 60hz from 24pfs source.)
> 
> ...


My Sony has that, BUT it isn't for 1080p, and is "simply" for 1080i/720p showing movies.
Having talked to Sony, none of the XBR3 will display 1080p/24, as they claim the display panel of XBR4 is the first to be able to display 1080p/24.


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## rsonnens (Nov 8, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> My Sony has that, BUT it isn't for 1080p, and is "simply" for 1080i/720p showing movies.
> Having talked to Sony, none of the XBR3 will display 1080p/24, as they claim the display panel of XBR4 is the first to be able to display 1080p/24.


Very odd that they would do a reverse pull down for 1080i and 720p an not 1080p--it really make no sense especially if they can do it for 720p. Possibly they are only doing it for broadcast material and not for material over HDMI...but that seems stupid. But frankly Sony never says anywhere when/how they apply the reverse pulldown for the v2500.

But, if as you say, they do do it for 1080i then it really does not matter because you won't see any quality difference, But really I have no idea if any of this is true with these sets because...

I just looked at the KDL XBR3 manual and it says that "CineMotion is only available when you are watching 480i sources" and has a UI control to turn it on/off. On the v2500 it is only mentioned in the marketing material and not in the manual and the TV has no control for it. So now I am more confused. I am interesting in finding out where you got the info that it was for 1080i/720p? Ahh you have to love Sony.


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## rsonnens (Nov 8, 2006)

I may have answered my own question from this interesting read: http://www.hometheatermag.com/hookmeup/1106hook/ and http://www.hometheatermag.com/hookmeup/1107hook2/

After reading this I am inclined to believe that these sets (XBR3 and v2500) only take a 1080i/30hz with 24fps (and maybe a 480i) and convert it to a 1080p/60hz signal to preserve the 3:2 cadence correctly but does not, unfortunately, convert it so a signal that is a multiple of 24hz. :-(


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

rsonnens said:


> Not sure what you mean by "higher-end" but most sets prior to last year did not accept 1080p/24hz signals.


There have been many TVs from the last 4-5 years that are able to accept a 1080/24p input signal. Most have fixed 60Hz refresh rate panels, and must convert 24p signals to 60p, but they do accept the input signals.

It is true that TVs that will display 24p signals at the proper interval (24 frames per second, each frame being displayed for 1/24th of a second) were new in 2007, at least in consumer equipment. They require panels that have alternate refresh rates that can do a multiple of 24.

The point is that these are two different things.


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## bpratt (Nov 24, 2005)

rsonnens said:


> Not sure what you mean by "higher-end" but most sets prior to last year did not accept 1080p/24hz signals. However many sets, including the Sony Bravia 40v2500(*) and I believe the XBR 3, do a _reverse pulldown_ which recognizes a 24fps source material encoded in a 60hz signal and somehow displays it better than without doing any tinkering. Since Sony does not say what they actually do, and it may differ by set, I won't go as far as saying that it actually displays this material on the panel as a multiple of 24hz but I suspect it does--other than adding in motion blur (which I doubt) I can't see what else they could do.
> 
> I believe that sets doing a reverse pulldown is far more common than accepting 24hz source and converting it to 60hz (I am not aware of sets do # 2 although many [all?] BlueRay players do it when outputting 60hz from 24pfs source.)
> 
> ...


I have a Sony KDL 46V2500 and just downloaded a 1080p show to test it. My HR21-700 has both the 720 and 1080 lights lit, but the TV has no picture, just sound. When I switch the HR21 to 1080i mode, the picture returns. Apparently this TV does not support 1080p at 24 frames per second.


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## rsonnens (Nov 8, 2006)

bpratt said:


> I have a Sony KDL 46V2500 and just downloaded a 1080p show to test it. My HR21-700 has both the 720 and 1080 lights lit, but the TV has no picture, just sound. When I switch the HR21 to 1080i mode, the picture returns. Apparently this TV does not support 1080p at 24 frames per second.


If your "720 and 1080 lights are lit" then I suspect you forced it into 1080p/24hz mode likely with the _info_ trick that people were doing even though the DVR correctly detected that it was not support. You should uncheck that setting because someday you will view something and not realize how it was encoded and not know why the picture was not showing.


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

bpratt said:


> I have a Sony KDL 46V2500 and just downloaded a 1080p show to test it. My HR21-700 has both the 720 and 1080 lights lit, but the TV has no picture, just sound. When I switch the HR21 to 1080i mode, the picture returns. Apparently this TV does not support 1080p at 24 frames per second.


Correct; this model does not accept 1080/24p input signals, and has a 60 Hz panel.


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## Chuck W (Mar 26, 2002)

cycomyco said:


> I have the Sony Bravia XBR3 and Dad has the XBR4 or 5. Anyone know if these TVs support 1080p/24 ? and what will that mean for the future ? Thanks


The XBR4/5 does support 1080p/24, even without 3:2 pulldown. I don't know about the XBR3 tho.


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## Throckmorton (Dec 7, 2007)

rsonnens said:


> If your "720 and 1080 lights are lit" then I suspect you forced it into 1080p/24hz mode likely with the _info_ trick that people were doing even though the DVR *correctly detected that it was not support*. You should uncheck that setting because someday you will view something and not realize how it was encoded and not know why the picture was not showing.


Please be aware that this is not always the wrong thing to do.

My Bravia SXRD 60A3000 does 1080p/24.

My HR21-700 *correctly detected* that it *did*.
My HR20-100 *incorrectly detected* that it *did not*.

The _"info trick"_ was necessary on the HR20-100 to force 1080p/24 mode because in failed to detect correctly on its own.


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## dramirez (Jan 6, 2008)

my HR21 700 says my KDL-46XBR4 doesn't support 1080p, I'll try the "info" trick...


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## MJMSR (Dec 6, 2008)

Brian Hanasky said:


> I have a Sony KDL 40V2500. I called Sony and the rep told me that it would support the 1080/24p. I am not networked yet so it really doesn't matter yet but I called out of curiosity.


Hello, I have the KDL 46V2500 and when I tried the VOD test from DTV, I had audio but no sound. The HR22 locked up (could not use the buttons) and had to turn the receiver off and on to get things back.


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## MJMSR (Dec 6, 2008)

bpratt said:


> I have a Sony KDL 46V2500 and just downloaded a 1080p show to test it. My HR21-700 has both the 720 and 1080 lights lit, but the TV has no picture, just sound. When I switch the HR21 to 1080i mode, the picture returns. Apparently this TV does not support 1080p at 24 frames per second.


I have the HR22 and also had both lights lit up, with the same results.

How do you switch to just 1080i mode?


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## Phil T (Mar 25, 2002)

KDL 52XBR4 works fine.


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

MJMSR said:


> Hello, I have the KDL 46V2500 and when I tried the VOD test from DTV, I had audio but no sound. The HR22 locked up (could not use the buttons) and had to turn the receiver off and on to get things back.


The 2500 series are 2005 models IIRC, and do NOT support 1080/24p input signals. The 3000 series are the first models to support 1080/24p input signals, but they still have 60 Hz refresh panels and have to convert 1080/24p signals internally.

The first Sonys that can actually refresh at a multiple of 24 are the XBR6/7/8s and the W4100 and Z4100 models, all of which are 2008 models.

THIS THREAD on Blu-Ray.com is a pretty difinitive list of TVs that offer FULL support (meaning: a multiple of 24 Hz refresh rate) for 1080/24p signals. If your TV isn't on this list, then it almost certainly doesn't have full 24p support, even if it accepts 24p input signals.


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## Throckmorton (Dec 7, 2007)

IIP said:


> The 3000 series are the first models to support 1080/24p input signals, but they still have 60 Hz refresh panels and have to convert 1080/24p signals internally.


Not true for the *A*3000 series:



> As indicated earlier on, a new feature on A3000 series Sony projection television sets is the *'Motionflow' 120Hz high frame rate technology*, and which is also available on Sony latest XBR4 series of LCD HDTVs. Mainly the 120Hz refresh rate is designed to help smooth out artifacts when converting 24fps film-based content to 60Hz 1080p HDTV. The 2:3 pull-down process would normally result in a rather jerky movement that is generated when handling pans and other camera movement. The 120Hz refresh rate provides the only first integral that is a whole multiple for both 24Hz and 60Hz, thus eliminating the need for 2:3 pull-down altogether.


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## Leftcoastdave (Apr 2, 2004)

Throckmorton said:


> Please be aware that this is not always the wrong thing to do.
> 
> My Bravia SXRD 60A3000 does 1080p/24.
> 
> ...


Sorry if this is nitpicking, but your Sony SXRD A3000 is not a Bravia engine, it is an SXRD chipset.

That said, you are fortunate to see 1080p/24 because my SXRD *A2000* does not support 1080p/24p from a DirecTV HD DVR. I have both HR20-100's and HR20-700's and they both report 1080p support but I am unable to play the 1080p test movies available for download.

I called Sony and they claim to support both 1080p/24 and 1080p/60 but that is not the case with my model as I get a message from the TV reporting an unsupported signal from the DVR. I can see both 1080p resolutions just fine when play Blu-ray DVD's.


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## Throckmorton (Dec 7, 2007)

Leftcoastdave said:


> Sorry if this is nitpicking, but your Sony SXRD A3000 is not a Bravia engine, it is an SXRD chipset.


No need to aplolgize. And forgive me for pointiong out that Sony says it DOES have a Bravia engine. The *BRAVIA Engine™ EX Video Processor*, to be precise. See more here.



Leftcoastdave said:


> That said, you are fortunate to see 1080p/24 because my SXRD *A2000* does not support 1080p/24p from a DirecTV HD DVR. I have both HR20-100's and HR20-700's and they both report 1080p support but I am unable to play the 1080p test movies available for download.


Good fortune has nothing to do with it. The published specs for the 60A3000 clearly state 1080p/24 as one of the supported video formats.


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

Throckmorton said:


> Not true for the *A*3000 series:


Right. That's a rear-projection SXRD, not a flat-panel LCD, so what I wrote doesn't apply.


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## Wetboss (Aug 19, 2007)

I have a Bravia 40V2500 and when I tried to set 1080p I got the unsupported message. But when I hit info while the screen was black I got the congratulations message. Now what is shown in 1080p yet so I can see if it works?


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Sure.


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## Matman (Mar 24, 2008)

My KDL-40XBR4 worked like a champ.


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## Throckmorton (Dec 7, 2007)

IIP said:


> Right. That's a rear-projection SXRD, not a flat-panel LCD, so what I wrote doesn't apply.


I understand, but your comment was directed to the "3000" series. I just wanted to be clear that it wasn't true of *all* "3000 series".


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

Wetboss said:


> I have a Bravia 40V2500 and when I tried to set 1080p I got the unsupported message. But when I hit info while the screen was black I got the congratulations message. Now what is shown in 1080p yet so I can see if it works?


If your DVR is connected to the Internet, SEARCH for programs, type in "TEST". You should see the entry for "Test 1080p now with the Hulk" or something similar. I believe the Hulk trailer is the only 1080p content available at the moment.


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## Wetboss (Aug 19, 2007)

Well I downloaded the "TEST" and my screen went blank. Thank you Directv. I bought a 1080p Sony (40V2500) just so I could some day watch 1080p TV. Now I find out that oh there is different types of 1080p broadcasting methods. Freaking pick a standard and go with it. Thanks for nothing.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

Wetboss said:


> Well I downloaded the "TEST" and my screen went blank. Thank you Directv. I bought a 1080p Sony (40V2500) just so I could some day watch 1080p TV. Now I find out that oh there is different types of 1080p broadcasting methods. Freaking pick a standard and go with it. Thanks for nothing.


Complain to Sony, they are the ones doing who knows what.


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

This isn't an issue with DirecTV, it's an issue that NO TV manufacturers provided 1080/24p support until VERY recently. It was well-known in the industry that 1080/24p would be an important format since that is what virtually all film-based content will be encoded in.

Unfortunately, in the world of consumer electronics, there's always something newer, better, and cheaper than what you bought 2 years ago.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

IIP said:


> This isn't an issue with DirecTV, it's an issue that NO TV manufacturers provided 1080/24p support until VERY recently. It was well-known in the industry that 1080/24p would be an important format since that is what virtually all film-based content will be encoded in.
> 
> Unfortunately, in the world of consumer electronics, there's always something newer, better, and cheaper than what you bought 2 years ago.


Since Sony are the ones who developed Blu-ray, I'm holding their feet a bit closer to the fire for NOT listing anything more than "1080p", when part of the company knew all about 1080p/24.


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

Toshiba's HD-DVD was almost a year earlier to market with a 1080/24p device, and their TVs didn't support it either.

Here are the 18 companies on the board of the Blu-Ray Disc Association. See any TV manufacturers here? I do. None of them supported 1080/24p on their "1080p" TVs.

Apple Inc. 
Dell Inc. 
Hewlett-Packard Company 
Hitachi, Ltd. 
LG Electronics 
Mitsubishi Electric 
Panasonic (Matsu****a Electric) 
Pioneer Corporation 
Royal Philips Electronics 
Samsung Electronics 
Sharp Corporation 
Sony Corporation 
Sun Microsystems 
TDK Corporation 
Thomson SA 
Twentieth Century Fox 
Walt Disney Motion Pictures Group / Walt Disney Studios Home Entertainment 
Warner Bros. Entertainment, Inc

So, as I said before, the entire industry is just about equally to blame.


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## MALFEITOR (Dec 2, 2008)

IIP said:


> Toshiba's HD-DVD was almost a year earlier to market with a 1080/24p device, and their TVs didn't support it either.
> 
> Here are the 18 companies on the board of the Blu-Ray Disc Association. See any TV manufacturers here? I do. None of them supported 1080/24p on their "1080p" TVs.
> 
> ...


Do you mean that none of them support 1080P/24 signal w/h or w/h out the 3:2pull down? My DLP works fine with the 1080P/24 Hulk test trailer and my BD-35 player but it uses the pull down method. In the tv manual it states that it supports 24,30, and 60Hz but it still looks great even if it does use the pulldown method.


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

MALFEITOR said:


> Do you mean that none of them support 1080P/24 signal w/h or w/h out the 3:2pull down? My DLP works fine with the 1080P/24 Hulk test trailer and my BD-35 player but it uses the pull down method. In the tv manual it states that it supports 24,30, and 60Hz but it still looks great even if it does use the pulldown method.


What we're saying is that virtually no TV sets from before 2006 accepted 1080/24p signals AT ALL, even though Blu-Ray and other 1080/24p devices were being designed, and even though it was well-known that 1080/24p would be an important format. The first handful of TVs that actually refresh 24p content at the proper rate didn't appear until 2007, and many brands didn't have TVs that did this until this year (2008 models). And it is only the higher-end models that do this, though nearly all brand-name 2008 models at least accept 1080/24p input signals.

The issue was that many companies were advertising "1080p" support starting around 2004, without mentioning that this was limited to 1080/60p (good for video-based sources like live sports, computers, and video games), and didn't support 1080/24p, which is the format used to encode most film content, since film is 24 frames per second.

My point is that this was in no way limited to Sony; ALL manufacturers dropped the ball, and they ALL knew 1080/24p was coming, as they were all involved in the development of Blu-Ray or HD-DVD (or BOTH) years before the devices were even released.

But this is a standard tactic in the CE world; they've always got to have something new for next year...


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Because it is rule of our world - sell, sell, sell !


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## MALFEITOR (Dec 2, 2008)

IIP said:


> What we're saying is that virtually no TV sets from before 2006 accepted 1080/24p signals AT ALL, even though Blu-Ray and other 1080/24p devices were being designed, and even though it was well-known that 1080/24p would be an important format. The first handful of TVs that actually refresh 24p content at the proper rate didn't appear until 2007, and many brands didn't have TVs that did this until this year (2008 models). And it is only the higher-end models that do this, though nearly all brand-name 2008 models at least accept 1080/24p input signals.
> 
> The issue was that many companies were advertising "1080p" support starting around 2004, without mentioning that this was limited to 1080/60p (good for video-based sources like live sports, computers, and video games), and didn't support 1080/24p, which is the format used to encode most film content, since film is 24 frames per second.
> 
> ...


Yeah I did not even really look into this 1080P/24 thing until I got my first 1080P tv + blu-ray player on black friday. I saw the 24hz settings for my tv, the 24 frames in my BD-35, and the DirecTV 1080P/24 VOD. Now that I know about all this I would agree with you that they should have been more forthcoming about it early on.


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## allenn (Nov 19, 2005)

TV Make/Model: Sony BRAVIA KDL-52WL135
HR2x Model-manufacturer: HR21-700 release 0x029B
TV Firmware: Do Not Know
TV supports: HDMI video at 1080i, 1080p, and 1080/24p in a resolution of 1920 dots x 1080 lines 
HDMI Connection Yes/No: Yes
HDMI Logo Cable Yes/No: Yes

When I enabled the setup for HD 1080p resolution: the Screen goes blank. I let it stay blank until it displayed the "Sorry your TV doesn't support the 1080p broad cast". I tried selecting it again, but this time I cheated and pressed the D* Remote [Info] button which enabled the HD 1080p.

I downloaded the Hulk 1080/24p Test Trailer. The movie trailer played just fine without any jitter or audio sync issues. The Sony TV Display Banner showed 1080/24p during the VOD play back.

I do not know why the D* 1080p setup fails, but the test clip plays at 1080/24.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Pointed many times - not just resolution/frame rate matter, but FIRST is HDCP handshake !


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Pointed many times - not just resolution/frame rate matter, but FIRST is HDCP handshake !


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Pointed many times - not just resolution/frame rate matter, but FIRST is HDCP handshake !


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Pointed many times - not just resolution/frame rate matter, but FIRST is HDCP handshake !


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## rpl47 (Aug 20, 2006)

Phil T said:


> KDL 52XBR4 works fine.


My 52XBR4 did not pass the test. What's the "info trick"?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

rpl47 said:


> My 52XBR4 did not pass the test. What's the "info trick"?


When you see the "unsupported signal" message, press the info button on the remote.


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