# 30 second skip deactivated for some commecials-again



## bearcat250 (Feb 19, 2004)

This went away for a while but it's back with a twist. Before there were random commercials that the 30 second skip would not work but the fast forward would. The problem went away for a while, but it's back. Only now the 30 second skip appears to be working until you realize that is just moves around on the same commercial. So I have to fast forward through the commercial to get to the next commercial and the 30 second skip works again. Anyone else seeing this?


----------



## gary s (Jun 30, 2003)

I have noticed the same thing.


----------



## arvada keith (Apr 10, 2008)

me too, especially the last commercial on HGTV before the program comes back on.


----------



## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

It'd be really useful for you to state the channel, time, date and approximate location within the recording so others can test it. Otherwise to help you it's a bit of a needle-in-haystack proposition.


----------



## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

This was generally an issue with DirecTV local ad inserts. Basically, an ad local to you that is aired on a national channel. DirecTV has been trying to get this kind of ad insertion going for a while.

- Merg


----------



## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

The Merg said:


> This was generally an issue with DirecTV local ad inserts. Basically, an ad local to you that is aired on a national channel. DirecTV has been trying to get this kind of ad insertion going for a while.
> 
> - Merg


Yes, thanks, I just want to see it first hand. I normally FF @ 3x unless it's FB.


----------



## fornold (Sep 4, 2006)

I noticed the same thing from a recording from Food Network Star from the May 29th episode. It was a DirecTV ad.


----------



## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

"fornold" said:


> I noticed the same thing from a recording from Food Network Star from the May 29th episode. It was a DirecTV ad.


I believe that is what DirecTV is using to test the local ad insertions.

- Merg


----------



## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

It was on Discovery channel during Mythbusters on a local insert. I wonder if the advertisers pay extra for do-not-skip.


----------



## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

"Mark Holtz" said:


> It was on Discovery channel during Mythbusters on a local insert. I wonder if the advertisers pay extra for do-not-skip.


Nope. Just a bug.

- Merg


----------



## inf0z (Oct 16, 2011)

FYI
Fast Forward x4 > 30 skip


----------



## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

inf0z said:


> FYI
> Fast Forward x4 > 30 skip


Not sure what you are saying- that FF x3 or 4 is faster than a series of 30Skips?

Whether yea or nay, I prefer 3x for most FF as I can see just enough to stop it for an ad I want to see, or the resumption of the program.


----------



## bearcat250 (Feb 19, 2004)

Laxguy said:


> It'd be really useful for you to state the channel, time, date and approximate location within the recording so others can test it. Otherwise to help you it's a bit of a needle-in-haystack proposition.


I will moniter this and report as it happens.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Interesting....I haven't personally seen this happen...but obviously others have.

This seems to be a somewhat-related discussion:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=205906


----------



## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

inf0z said:


> FYI
> Fast Forward x4 > 30 skip


That's opinion, one not shared by all (or maybe even most).

For sports, 30 sec skips are much better. For example, football commercial breaks are always 2 minutes, so stack 4 skips and you get back to the perfect spot every time, with no risk of FF too far and seeing the result of the first play when coming out of FF.


----------



## Steveknj (Nov 14, 2006)

Same thing happens here. I guess with the last update, they forgot to include whatever patched this the last time it happened. A fix, albeit cumbersome is to stop the playback and then play again, it moves past the commercial (or just forgets the commercial insert and goes to the "national" ad, not sure) and then you can skip/ff.

My first thought when I saw this the first time, is they are testing a way to disable skipping on demand, so as someone said, advertisers could pay more to prevent the user from skipping, but I've been assured it is a bug, and since it was fixed once, I have no reason to think it won't get fixed again. Hopefully soon, it's really annoying.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

bearcat250 said:


> This went away for a while but it's back with a twist. Before there were random commercials that the 30 second skip would not work but the fast forward would. The problem went away for a while, but it's back. Only now the 30 second skip appears to be working until you realize that is just moves around on the same commercial. So I have to fast forward through the commercial to get to the next commercial and the 30 second skip works again. Anyone else seeing this?


I just re-read your post.

I'm wondering if it would help to know *which specific device *you have and *what firmware version *you have running on it.

Perhaps one of those factors would come into play somehow.

Can you post this information?


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Is this with the latest software (0x5CD?) Or should this discussion be taking place in the CE forum?


----------



## Jon J (Apr 22, 2002)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Is this with the latest software (0x5CD?) Or should this discussion be taking place in the CE forum?


I see this "feature" on local ad inserts on my three receivers running 5CD and the one now running 5CF. Not a CE download, BTW.


----------



## Steveknj (Nov 14, 2006)

For me, it's the latest production software (not CE) that was recently pushed to my DVRs (HR22s)


----------



## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

What happens with FIOS , HDMI, and native on is weird. The screen goes black for 3 seconds because the local insert is 480i, and the resolution has to be renegotiated. Then when the regular programming comes back, it's at 720p or 1080i so the screen goes black for 3 seconds after the commercial too, because the resolution has to be negotiated back again.

Maybe the DVR simply doesn't know how to FF through these commercials because they are at a different resolution. I'll try to FF with FIOS tonight. But my point is that it's probably not a conspiracy, it's most likely a bug.

But Laxguy is correct, more details are needed. Is native on? What resolutions are selected on your box? Does it still happen if you change the resolution settings around? Does it only happen on HD channels?


----------



## bearcat250 (Feb 19, 2004)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I just re-read your post.
> 
> I'm wondering if it would help to know *which specific device *you have and *what firmware version *you have running on it.
> 
> ...


HR21-100 0x5cd
HR21-200 0x5cd


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

bearcat250 said:


> HR21-100 0x5cd
> HR21-200 0x5cd


Thank you.


----------



## Mike_TV (Jan 17, 2006)

I'm seeing this too on local insertion ads. For those in the Chicago market you'll see this happen on the Jewel supermarket commercials that are standard def.


----------



## Deftones (Sep 6, 2006)

inf0z said:


> FYI
> Fast Forward x4 > 30 skip


that's not true, because I had the same bug and it was happening when I FF through commercials (I don't use 30 second skip).


----------



## bearcat250 (Feb 19, 2004)

Laxguy said:


> It'd be really useful for you to state the channel, time, date and approximate location within the recording so others can test it. Otherwise to help you it's a bit of a needle-in-haystack proposition.


OK, I have two occasions to report when this has happened. It happened during Pawn Stars on History channel Monday night the 11th. The commercial was for DTV coverage of the US Open golf. The next was during the 6 PM version of Special Report on Fox News Thursday the 14th. It was a commercial for the United Way with Ladaniun Tomilson. (Parden the spelling). More to come.


----------



## brianp6621 (Jun 13, 2007)

Yes this has been happening to me too but for at least a week or 2 through the last 2 or 3 software updates. It seems like there have been quite a few recently unless my receiver just keeps rebooting at night. I don't think that is the case as both do it on the same night usually. 

Main receiver is HR22/100 0x5cf


----------



## bearcat250 (Feb 19, 2004)

brianp6621 said:


> Yes this has been happening to me too but for at least a week or 2 through the last 2 or 3 software updates. It seems like there have been quite a few recently unless my receiver just keeps rebooting at night. I don't think that is the case as both do it on the same night usually.
> 
> Main receiver is HR22/100 0x5cf


I have been told on this forum that it would be very helpful if we post the following info:

What show was it, when did it happened and what the commercial it was.


----------



## ponchsox (Jun 2, 2012)

bearcat250 said:


> Ladaniun Tomilson. (Parden the spelling)


You are "pardened." Lol.


----------



## Podkayne (Nov 1, 2007)

The "skip forward" button on my remote is always the first one to wear out. My wife always does FF 3X, but depending on program I know to skip 4, 7, 9, or 10 times and pretty much resume programming almost immediately.

The invention of the DVR should go down in history as forever changing TV, right after the concept of easily available satellite TV, of course. We haven't watched a commercial in my house since June of 2007, and it really does help with enjoyment of the programs. It's obviously why you see the ridiculous "product placements" in shows now...it's fun to pick them out!


----------



## kikkenit2 (Oct 26, 2006)

bearcat250 said:


> I have been told on this forum that it would be very helpful if we post the following info:
> 
> What show was it, when did it happened and what the commercial it was.


I have the same new cf software as of 5-17. Happens every weeknight on msnbc during the political shows. Different commercial every night, but definately that local insert type. Usually at about 20 minutes into show, but time varies. Usually only once per hour. HR20 all hd native on. Always 30 skip through commercials. 4X ff halftimes etc. Just ff through these commercials. I have sound effects off so I hit skip about 4 times too many when it gets stuck. lol I read nbc owned channels tend to do this more. I don't think this is a bug anymore. It has been around for so long and keeps coming back.

I mentioned it to retention last week when I got free sunday ticket. She knew exactly what I was talking about and just laughed. They have had lots of complaints about it.


----------



## bearcat250 (Feb 19, 2004)

Laxguy said:


> It'd be really useful for you to state the channel, time, date and approximate location within the recording so others can test it. Otherwise to help you it's a bit of a needle-in-haystack proposition.


It happened again. 10 minutes into Dog the Bounty Hunter on Saturday night. A commercial for knowhow2go.org. It's the commercial where the girl keeps falling off her skateboard as the voice talks about how to get into college.


----------



## bearcat250 (Feb 19, 2004)

kikkenit2 said:


> I have the same new cf software as of 5-17. Happens every weeknight on msnbc during the political shows. Different commercial every night, but definately that local insert type. Usually at about 20 minutes into show, but time varies. Usually only once per hour. HR20 all hd native on. Always 30 skip through commercials. 4X ff halftimes etc. Just ff through these commercials. I have sound effects off so I hit skip about 4 times too many when it gets stuck. lol I read nbc owned channels tend to do this more. I don't think this is a bug anymore. It has been around for so long and keeps coming back.
> 
> I mentioned it to retention last week when I got free sunday ticket. She knew exactly what I was talking about and just laughed. They have had lots of complaints about it.


I know this is the wrong subject, but how did you get free Sunday Ticket?


----------



## bearcat250 (Feb 19, 2004)

Laxguy said:


> It'd be really useful for you to state the channel, time, date and approximate location within the recording so others can test it. Otherwise to help you it's a bit of a needle-in-haystack proposition.


It happened again today 20 minutes into Special Report with Brett Baier on Fox News Channel at 6 PM. It was a commercial for Cadillac.


----------



## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

"bearcat250" said:


> It happened again today 20 minutes into Special Report with Brett Baier on Fox News Channel at 6 PM. It was a commercial for Cadillac.


Was this a national commercial for Cadillac or one for a local dealership?

- Merg


----------



## bearcat250 (Feb 19, 2004)

Laxguy said:


> It'd be really useful for you to state the channel, time, date and approximate location within the recording so others can test it. Otherwise to help you it's a bit of a needle-in-haystack proposition.


It happened again, 10 minutes into The Real Housewives of New Jersey on Bravo. A commercial for Cumberland Farms Farmhouse Blend iced coffee with David Hasselhoff.


----------



## bearcat250 (Feb 19, 2004)

The Merg said:


> Was this a national commercial for Cadillac or one for a local dealership?
> 
> - Merg


It was not for a local dealership. It appeared to be a national Cadillac commercial.


----------



## bearcat250 (Feb 19, 2004)

Laxguy said:


> It'd be really useful for you to state the channel, time, date and approximate location within the recording so others can test it. Otherwise to help you it's a bit of a needle-in-haystack proposition.


During the O'Reilly Factor about 20 minutes in the "knowhow2go.org" commercial again


----------



## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

Mark Holtz said:


> It was on Discovery channel during Mythbusters on a local insert. I wonder if the advertisers pay extra for do-not-skip.


It is not a "feature" that they can turn on and off, and it is not a bug, which would imply some issue with the code.

What it is is that the way 30SKIP works is dependent on contiguous timecode (actually the digital equivalent of timecode) and if you break the running timecode by inserting a CM with different timecode, it flummoxes 30SKIP because it can't find the timecode value it is trying to skip to which is based on the code it reads at the time you hit the button, and that code is in the inserted commercial which is completely different than the code in the program segments. Since there is no corresponding code that is 30 seconds later because that code ends and the program code begins at the end of the insert, 30SKIP can't find the timecode location it wants to jump to, so it aborts instead.

This is different for commercials that are not inserted after the fact, because the running timecode through both the original program and its inserted commercials is already contiguous, and so 30SKIP will work just fine with that.

There is a fix, which is to add a regenerative timecode generator to the channel so that the continuity of the code is not broken, even with a late insert. DTV has the option to spend money to do that, or let 30SKIP, an "unsupported feature" just fail at insert locations. Obviously there is no great motivation for them to spend the money at this time.

But you raise an interesting question. What we have here is just an incompatibility that fails 30SKIP (30SLIP, which IS supported, still works because it doesn't have to calculate and then look for that number that is 30 seconds in the future). But we are all familiar with technology that can lock down FFWD; anyone who has ever rented a DVD has had to sit through the fed warnings at the head.

So to put your question another way: is it feasible that the vendors could sell spots at higher rates by guaranteeing no-skip technology, even though that is not what is happening now, and would they ever do that?


----------



## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

bobcamp1 said:


> What happens with FIOS , HDMI, and native on is weird. The screen goes black for 3 seconds because the local insert is 480i, and the resolution has to be renegotiated. Then when the regular programming comes back, it's at 720p or 1080i so the screen goes black for 3 seconds after the commercial too, because the resolution has to be negotiated back again.
> 
> Maybe the DVR simply doesn't know how to FF through these commercials because they are at a different resolution. I'll try to FF with FIOS tonight. But my point is that it's probably not a conspiracy, it's most likely a bug...


Honestly, it's neither a bug nor a conspiracy. But not using the same format 100% of the time is just a stupid engineering choice (and that is a completely different issue than the timecode issue that fails 30SKIP).

Every broadcast station and every cable/sat outlet picks a format (usually 1080i30 or 720p60) and sticks with it, and by that I mean that any content they produce locally is always in that format, and any content they ingest or import and put on their air is transcoded ahead of time to their native format as well.

If they didn't do that, not only would you see the rehandshaking issues you are seeing, but it could burp and/or damage the transmitter, or the DVB HPA, and would play hell with encoding and decoding. It makes no sense not to conform to that practice.

And for DTV to insert in a different format is again, just stupid, because of the problems it creates. That of course does not mean that they are not stupid or that they aren't doing that; if your report is correct (and I have no reason to doubt you) apparently that is exactly what they are doing, and if they are, it is a rookie, bush-league mistake.


----------



## kikkenit2 (Oct 26, 2006)

bearcat250 said:


> I know this is the wrong subject, but how did you get free Sunday Ticket?


There is a sunday ticket thread but basically call directv and say cancel service to the computer twice. Get to a real person. Be very friendly and respectful, but let them know how tempting fios etc. is and how slow directv equipment works etc. Eventually ask for free sunday ticket. Viola! Every year.

As you can see the commercials vary, but the 30skip error is rampant on directv. Remind them of that also. lol


----------



## bearcat250 (Feb 19, 2004)

Laxguy said:


> It'd be really useful for you to state the channel, time, date and approximate location within the recording so others can test it. Otherwise to help you it's a bit of a needle-in-haystack proposition.


Once again at 6:20 PM during Special Report with Brett Baier on Fox News channel. A commercial for the Chevy Cruze LS. Yesterday at the same time it was for Cadillac, another GM product. It was not an ad for a local dealership.


----------



## bearcat250 (Feb 19, 2004)

TomCat said:


> It is not a "feature" that they can turn on and off, and it is not a bug, which would imply some issue with the code.
> 
> What it is is that the way 30SKIP works is dependent on contiguous timecode (actually the digital equivalent of timecode) and if you break the running timecode by inserting a CM with different timecode, it flummoxes 30SKIP because it can't find the timecode value it is trying to skip to which is based on the code it reads at the time you hit the button, and that code is in the inserted commercial which is completely different than the code in the program segments. Since there is no corresponding code that is 30 seconds later because that code ends and the program code begins at the end of the insert, 30SKIP can't find the timecode location it wants to jump to, so it aborts instead.
> 
> ...


If 30SKIP is an unsupported feature, then why is it possible to enable the feature? Why would D make the option available if they do not support it? To me, that doesn't make sense.


----------



## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

bearcat250 said:


> If 30SKIP is an unsupported feature, then why is it possible to enable the feature? Why would D make the option available if they do not support it? To me, that doesn't make sense.


That sort of thing is not uncommon in computerland. And cell phones and pads. So, DVRs being limited use computers, it makes total sense to me. 
By saying it's unsupported, one thing is they don't have to keep it around or make sure it works.


----------



## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

Until they get it corrected maybe you would be better off switching back to 30SLIP...or use FF....you've posted about it, there is really no need to continue posting about the exact same issue.


----------



## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

TomCat said:


> Honestly, it's neither a bug nor a conspiracy. But not using the same format 100% of the time is just a stupid engineering choice (and that is a completely different issue than the timecode issue that fails 30SKIP).
> 
> Every broadcast station and every cable/sat outlet picks a format (usually 1080i30 or 720p60) and sticks with it, and by that I mean that any content they produce locally is always in that format, and any content they ingest or import and put on their air is transcoded ahead of time to their native format as well.
> 
> ...


I think both issues are bugs. Is that really the intended behavior of the product? It is simply a missing non-critical feature, or is it annoying customers? If I had to choose between operating as designed, future enhancement, or bug, I'd pick "bug."

FIOS doesn't have a 30 second slip, but it FFs through and 30 second skips over these 480i inserts without a problem. Interestingly, when FF is active the resolution isn't renegotiated, which leads me to believe that even though I have native set to "on", the FIOS DVR is upconverting while I'm trick-playing. I'm hoping that's by design so I can see what I'm doing while I'm fast forwarding. It's only when I stop on the commercial that the resolution gets renegotiated.

But yes, you'd think that "native on" would just set the resolution to what the channel resolution is 99% of of the time and upconvert/downconvert sparingly. I think this is just an unintended bug introduced when FIOS added the local inserts.

As far as D*'s bug, well it's only there for an unsupported feature, so they're probably in no hurry to fix it.


----------



## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

bearcat250 said:


> If 30SKIP is an unsupported feature, then why is it possible to enable the feature? Why would D make the option available if they do not support it? To me, that doesn't make sense.


It's estimated that 2% of customers are responsible for 10% of calls to customer service. They are affectionately called "whiners." To appease these whiners, and to get free beta testing of possible future enhancements, companies often put features in that are unsupported (untested) and then let their existence "leak".

It's a win-win situation. Your customer service call volume drops significantly, you get geeks to pay you to beta test your product, and your customers are happier because they now have that one feature they couldn't live without.


----------



## bearcat250 (Feb 19, 2004)

CCarncross said:


> Until they get it corrected maybe you would be better off switching back to 30SLIP...or use FF....you've posted about it, there is really no need to continue posting about the exact same issue.


It was posted that I should give examples of when, during what show, at what time into the show etc. etc. etc. I've only done what I was asked to do.


----------



## markrogo (Sep 18, 2007)

Yes, this bug is back on local-insert ads. I encountered it the other day too. I forget the content, to be honest, but it definitely happened.

It had been gone for months.

I do not run CE software.


----------



## gary s (Jun 30, 2003)

This bug has been happening quite a bit for us.

The last two times I noticed were on Pawn Stars 6/18 on History ch. about 13 mins. in during a national Infinity car ad and on Storage Wars 6/19 on A&E about 10 mins. in during a Subway ad.

I know for sure on the Pawn Stars one the ad was right after an ad for TRANSFORMERS THE RIDE-3D and I'm pretty sure the Storage Wars one was also.


----------



## Jaspear (May 16, 2004)

gary s said:


> This bug has been happening quite a bit for us.
> 
> The last two times I noticed were on Pawn Stars 6/18 on History ch. about 13 mins. in during a national Infinity car ad and on Storage Wars 6/19 on A&E about 10 mins. in during a Subway ad.
> 
> I know for sure on the Pawn Stars one the ad was right after an ad for TRANSFORMERS THE RIDE-3D and I'm pretty sure the Storage Wars one was also.


So, when will folks on this thread stop calling this a "bug" and start calling it what it increasingly appears to be, a feature. Every time you watch one of these spots, it _is_ a feature for DirecTV. If I were in charge of DirecTV's local ad sales initiative, I wouldn't be in any hurry to get this "bug" fixed.


----------



## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

Since it only affects 30SKIP, which is essentially an unsupported modification, well documented here though, I think its pretty reasonable to consider it a bug, and not some conspiracy theory to stop us from skipping commercials. 30SLIP and FF still work fine.


----------



## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

bearcat250 said:


> If 30SKIP is an unsupported feature, then why is it possible to enable the feature? Why would D make the option available if they do not support it? To me, that doesn't make sense.


Having been in numerous similar meetings, I can very easily imagine a meeting back in 2006 with an Engineer saying "we could offer 30SKIP as a feature in the new HD DVR+", and another Engineer saying "That's cool, but if we do we will have to support it through whatever changes we might go through in the future, including inserting spots after the fact, and since that breaks timecode unless you regenerate it, and since 30SKIP depends on contiguous timecode, that would mean we would have to buy a TC generator for every channel we want to insert on. Let's just support 30SLIP for now."

Guess who won that one.

It is not unusual for Engineering management to want to disseminate all features, but not be held responsible to support some of the more esoteric ones. This is a way for them to protect themselves and still give us all the great features they come up with, in case a higher power won't pull the trigger on support for a particular feature. So that does make sense. Tivo did the same thing on at least 3 backdoor features for the HR10-250.


----------



## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

CCarncross said:


> Since it only affects 30SKIP, which is essentially an unsupported modification, well documented here though, I think its pretty reasonable to consider it a bug, and not some conspiracy theory to stop us from skipping commercials. 30SLIP and FF still work fine.


I guess it depends on your definition of "bug". The conventional definition has always been some sort of behavior that was unexpected that thwarts proper operation of a coding algorithm. But I agree completely that there is no conspiracy, and no need to get out the tinfoil hat.

I don't think this was unexpected, for one. Good Engineers would have been able to know that breaking timecode could be a problem for 30SKIP in the future. And since the "feature" is not supported, it is difficult to characterize this a something that thwarts the normal authorized use of the OS, because it doesn't; it only thwarts an unauthorized feature.

Tomato, tomah-to.


----------



## markrogo (Sep 18, 2007)

Jaspear said:


> So, when will folks on this thread stop calling this a "bug" and start calling it what it increasingly appears to be, a feature. Every time you watch one of these spots, it _is_ a feature for DirecTV. If I were in charge of DirecTV's local ad sales initiative, I wouldn't be in any hurry to get this "bug" fixed.


Except it's a bug.

It was identified as a bug months ago by Stuart. It was fixed in a build some time ago. It has cropped up again.

It generates an awful user experience.

It's a bug.


----------



## brianp6621 (Jun 13, 2007)

So no update on this? It has been many months/releases since it showed back up and no fix yet...


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Actually it has been fixed for most people for quite some time. It is an unsupported feature so there is no guarantee it will work for you.


----------



## Bill Broderick (Aug 25, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Actually it has been fixed for most people for quite some time.


Not for me. I've been noticing this problem a lot lately.


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Bill Broderick said:


> Not for me. I've been noticing this problem a lot lately.


It must have something to do with the channels you're watching, verses the ones I am, since it's been long enough that I can't remember the last time it didn't work.
I did have them, but not on all channels.


----------



## bpratt (Nov 24, 2005)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Actually it has been fixed for most people for quite some time. It is an unsupported feature so there is no guarantee it will work for you.


It was fixed a few NRs ago, but then it returned. Mostly I get failure to skip 30 seconds on DirecTV adds.


----------



## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

bpratt said:


> It was fixed a few NRs ago, but then it returned. Mostly I get failure to skip 30 seconds on DirecTV adds.


Possibly. But my best guess would be that they just minimized the number of inserts they were doing after some backlash. And of course they probably have more real spots to insert now that are paid for, so they may have become a little bolder of late. If most of them are DTV promos, that indicates unsold spots that they still want to capitalize on by promoting their own stuff in those slots. At our expense, of course.

I put these inserts into the same bag as the annoying banner ads in the program grid; both are attempts to squeeze the last nickel out of us until the buffalo farts, and both cause problems; the inserts prevent 30SKIP from working properly, and the banner ads seem to make the guide evermore sluggish, at least part of the time.

I don't think it was ever really "fixed", because this is not something you can fix in the OS software without completely revisiting how 30SKIP works and making a wholesale change there. Honestly, I can't even imagine what an algorithm could even be that could accomplish that other than the one they are using, and that one is susceptible to the non-contiguous timecode of pre-recorded inserts.

It is possible that they could add TC regenerators and insert the clips in during broadcast, but I think they want to insert them on site (inside your DVR) which means a TC regeneration won't work. If they only did inserts live at broadcast they could fix the problem, but that is more clumsy; doing it in your DVR means they can regionalize it and target their demos more surgically.

For instance, if you live in a zipcode where there is an "In-Out Burger", they can target you for that, but if you live in an area where there is no "In-Out Burger" they can use the same slot to target you for something else (Chik-fil-et? Don't start!).


----------



## Delroy E Walleye (Jun 9, 2012)

I guess the big question is then, why is the bug back again, for *any* of us??!! Whatever they did the first time to fix it FIXED it for EVERYONE. so why is it back at all, for _anyone_, whether just some of us or all?

(Sorry if this has been clearly, completely and non-speculatively explained already and I'm just not "getting" it.)


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Delroy E Walleye said:


> I guess the big question is then, why is the bug back again, for *any* of us??!! Whatever they did the first time to fix it FIXED it for EVERYONE. so why is it back at all, for _anyone_, whether just some of us or all?
> 
> (Sorry if this has been clearly, completely and non-speculatively explained already and I'm just not "getting" it.)


"Some of us", may be running a newer version of software. 
If this is the case, then everyone will be getting it later.


----------



## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

Delroy E Walleye said:


> I guess the big question is then, why is the bug back again, for *any* of us??!! Whatever they did the first time to fix it FIXED it for EVERYONE. so why is it back at all, for _anyone_, whether just some of us or all?
> 
> (Sorry if this has been clearly, completely and non-speculatively explained already and I'm just not "getting" it.)


Del, I don't think it has been determined that it was ever "fixed" for anyone. All any of us really have is a perception of "now we see it, now we don't," and that may not coincide in any real way with the reality of how and when they are doing the inserts, regardless of how it may appear.

I also am not that comfortable with referring to it as a "bug", as it does not fit the classic definition of a bug; it is more of a known limitation that, coincidentally, only affects an unauthorized feature. But folks can call it whatever they like, although that hinders any chance for clarity on the issue.

Unless you are on the dev team that is working on it, no one really has any ability to do much more than speculate, and in my experience with that sort of thing even many of those folks are likely kept partially or completely in the dark as to what the goals or driving forces behind such an issue might be.

95% of what is posted on this forum is speculation, and the other 5% is helpful ideas that have been proven to be effective in many if not most cases, so if you are looking for something to be "non-speculative" regarding the questions in this particular thread, you might find that you have come to the wrong place, especially when the question involves "why does this happen?". Sometimes there is a good answer, but when the answer lies under a veil of secrecy from DTV, there usually isn't. At that point, speculation is really all any of us have.

This forum is what it is, but in most cases that is still a good thing, so while loaded with speculation, it is still probably the right place to go for these sorts of answers; the problem is that many questions just don't have definitive answers or at least those who have the answers may not always be available to post them here.

The best thing NEXT to having actual inside info is having info from folks who work on similar systems for similar companies and can at least shed some light on how this PROBABLY works. Coincidentally, I actually have such credentials in this area so I can contribute something that can hopefully be meaningful in this case. You then get to weigh how credible that might be.

Consider this situation: the professional mechanic who works on your car may be able to go on the record as much as he wants regarding heart valve replacement, simply based on his brother-in-law's experience as a heart valve recipient. He knows what he knows, and he knows just that much, and how much he goes on the record is up to him; he has little to lose by doing so.

A cardiothoracic surrgeon, however, will not go on the record until he has run lots of tests and has hard evidence one way or the other. So ironically, the guy who knows very little is the one willing to share advice freely, and the expert who might have done hundreds of such procedures is the one who is not as willing to speculate.

Do you want the advice that is voluminous and given freely or the advice that is based on acquired knowledge and empirical testing, which is not so voluminous and is very hard to get accurately simply by surfing the internet? I think I know how most people might answer that question.

Bottom line, credibility matters, even when all we have is speculation. None of us can really say for sure what is under the hood here; even what I am saying has to be speculative, but it's still probably much closer to accurate than some of the freely-available wild-ass guessing we might see.

But go ahead, its a free choice for anyone to make, as to what they might accept as their truth. it won't hurt my feelings at all if you'd rather believe something else. No evangelist reaches everybody. Bet the horses as you see them; just remember that racetracks can always still stay in business based on how those bets are placed.


----------



## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

This reply reminds me that I asked you a question following a similar post of yours, wherein you debunked every proposed method of speeding up DVRs. I never saw a reply, and now I cannot recall the thread. Can you?


----------



## Delroy E Walleye (Jun 9, 2012)

Ok. I'm cool with speculation.. Even done it (darkly, I might add) myself when these DVRs started acting nastily, blaming it on everything up to and including "corporate sabotage" which of course was taken the wrong way. The way I meant it was that perhaps some programmer or programmers were on the _competitor's_ dole, not DTV itself.

I guess what it comes down to is that some of us old fuddy duddies like to know why something doesn't doesn't work anymore that used to work perfectly, from specific features up to and including the entire operating interface. Naturally we turn to religious, if not scientific explainations for these things, as well as for our own existance. "DTV giveth, and then taketh away the better features."

Since I'm relatively new to 30Skip, I'm not near as upset with its partial loss as I *still* am of losing all of the old yellow button features, going all the way back to "to do" list. About the time I'd finally adjusted, then away went (or got buried deep) all the other yellow button features, with some of them *never* coming back (remember being able to manage, move and delete bookmarks - they even had timestamps on them?)! Not to mention two-button CC and fav channels access...

It could very well be that the removal of the 30skip fix was tied to the HDMI bug somehow, if only because that's about the time it disappeared and then re-surfaced, which if I recall was why many never received the fix. (I know, I know, I'm speculating, again, too).

Anyway, like many of us, sometimes I just wish the thing would work like it's supposed to (or at least like it _used_ to). We long for the "golden months" before drop-down banner, internet "garbage" and HDGUI problems and would gladly trade back for performance if we could.


----------



## UhClem (Oct 1, 2009)

TomCat said:


> ...
> It is possible that they could add TC regenerators and insert the clips in during broadcast, but I think they want to insert them on site *(inside your DVR) *which means a TC regeneration won't work.


Bingo!

I was poking around in the files (on an off-line HD-DVR drive) and found, among the program streams that _I recorded_, about 50-60 "suspicious" recordings. Three distinguishing characteristics: (1)their dir-names ended in "src2-ad.mpg" (vs "src2.mpg); (2) their sizes were all 20.3 MB (+- 200KB); (3) they were all "attributed" to channels in the range 8885-8889.
(You will find these in ./viewer/segments/)

Rather than debate whether this is a bug (or a feature?), I'd prefer to choose between _unintended consequences_ and _plausible deniability_. Regardless, it really irks me!


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

UhClem said:


> Bingo!
> 
> I was poking around in the files (on an off-line HD-DVR drive) and found, among the program streams that _I recorded_, about 50-60 "suspicious" recordings. Three distinguishing characteristics: (1)their dir-names ended in "src2-ad.mpg" (vs "src2.mpg); (2) their sizes were all 20.3 MB (+- 200KB); (3) they were all "attributed" to channels in the range 8885-8889.
> (You will find these in ./viewer/segments/)
> ...


Post #5 referred to these, with "local insert".
This addition wasn't tested with 30skip, and only the supported 30slip.
Newer versions of the firmware seems to have addresses it.


----------



## UhClem (Oct 1, 2009)

veryoldschool said:


> Post #5 referred to these, with "local insert".


Not really. #5's usage referred to a (broadcast) industry-standard term, pertaining to a local (geographical) market. I believe what we are experiencing here (and what is "confusing" the 30skip logic) is _super_-local (in your DVR). That is what my finding should differentiate. (TomCat will grok that.)


> Newer versions of the firmware seems to have addresses it.


No, it do not. (5D2 / 26Jun12 / hr23-700)
[I hope English isn't your native language]


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

UhClem said:


> Not really. #5's usage referred to...


What the problem/source is.

The only thing "local" in a national SAT feed, it the DVR.

Think this may be self explanatory: 5D2 / *26Jun12*, it's about 2 months old.


----------



## nickff (Dec 8, 2007)

I experience this annoying "event" all the time now. It started about 1 month ago.


----------



## Pauley (Oct 16, 2007)

If I have to see another DTV Cinema commercial for the f-ing Lorax without the ability to skip it I'm going to throw the unit through the wall! It has been happening about every second or third commercial break on ESPN today.

1) Is it local to my unit? It is always the lorax for me
2) Doesn't the insert have its own time code? If so, then skip30 should resync to that and then skip to the end of the commercial then resync to the 'real' time code.

Pauley


----------



## user3162 (Jun 1, 2002)

nickff said:


> I experience this annoying "event" all the time now. It started about 1 month ago.


Same here, and this is a deal breaker. I'm glad my contract is up.


----------



## MIKE0616 (Dec 13, 2006)

user3162 said:


> Same here, and this is a deal breaker. I'm glad my contract is up.


and it happens on every DTV ad that they have on now. Hopefully they will fix this soon as the football games are laced with DTV ads and each and every one of them screws with the 30skip. Neighbors who have DTV have noticed the same thing and not a one of them is happy with this feature.


----------



## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

I assume that since no one is complaining about the 30slip, that it works just fine??

And like others, the only time I'm seeing the 30skip bug is with DTV ads. Irritating, but certainly not a deal breaker to me.


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

"lparsons21" said:


> I assume that since no one is complaining about the 30slip, that it works just fine??
> 
> And like others, the only time I'm seeing the 30skip bug is with DTV ads. Irritating, but certainly not a deal breaker to me.


Right 30slip is fine. As Stuart said, the skip has improved, but we're talking about a feature that is undocumented and unsupported.


----------



## fornold (Sep 4, 2006)

I agree it is not a deal breaker, but an annoyance. I have been seeing this not only on some DirecTV ads, but also on several ads for GM recently on shows from Food Network and SciFi.


----------



## jdspencer (Nov 8, 2003)

I doubt that the 30s skip "problem" is a bug. DirecTV is disabling it on purpose, in order to get you to view it.


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

jdspencer said:


> I doubt that the 30s skip "problem" is a bug. DirecTV is disabling it on purpose, in order to get you to view it.


Why then with a newer version of software, I haven't had it in weeks?


----------



## jdspencer (Nov 8, 2003)

Just lucky that you haven't run into DirecTV ads I guess.

I wasn't aware of the problem until recently with DirecTV ads.


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I'll say again, this is not so e sort of conspiracy designed to force you to watch ads. It's a simple fact that this *undocumented, unsupported* feature is not tested when new software comes out. Period.

30-second slip still works fine, as does FF.


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> I'll say again, this is not some sort of conspiracy designed to force you to watch ads. It's a simple fact that this *undocumented, unsupported* feature is not tested when new software comes out. Period.
> 
> 30-second slip still works fine, as does FF.


Are you suggesting I should takeoff my tinfoil hat?


----------



## jdspencer (Nov 8, 2003)

Then why don't we see this on all channels when using 30s skip?

Probably has to do with the iframe or pframe the skip starts on?
Now that's the extent of what I know about how video is recorded.


----------



## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

The slip or skip would be great if it could be adjusted to something other than 30 seconds.
Since most of the batches of commercials are about 5 minutes long it takes 10 presses of the button to get over the commercials. I use the FF3 speed and zip right by them.


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

jdspencer said:


> Then why don't we see this on all channels when using 30s skip?
> 
> Probably has to do with....


The locally inserted commercials. DirecTV buys the time, but then adds their own locally targets in the DVR. This local insertion is what is having problems with the 30skip.


----------



## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

I haven't had this issue on any of my DVRs. I guess I don't live in an area that uses local insertion ads.


----------



## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

"RunnerFL" said:


> I haven't had this issue on any of my DVRs. I guess I don't live in an area that uses local insertion ads.


I believe they are still testing it and only in selected markets.

- Merg


----------



## MIKE0616 (Dec 13, 2006)

jdspencer said:


> I doubt that the 30s skip "problem" is a bug. DirecTV is disabling it on purpose, in order to get you to view it.


That is what it seems like, some marketing guru has decided to piss off current subscribers who use DVRs to buffer or record to rub in the new deals they are offering new subscribers or movers. 

Looks like will just use 30sllip for sports and 30skip for everything else. Easy nuff to do with "recent searches" of "smart search" until next update.


----------



## nickff (Dec 8, 2007)

Stuart Sweet said:


> I'll say again, this is not so e sort of conspiracy designed to force you to watch ads. It's a simple fact that this *undocumented, unsupported* feature is not tested when new software comes out. Period.
> 
> 30-second slip still works fine, as does FF.


How does something like this appear after months of use on a NR? Shouldn't it be acting up from the get-go?


----------



## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

nickff said:


> How does something like this appear after months of use on a NR? Shouldn't it be acting up from the get-go?


It'd be musch easier to track that if folks would cite what program, station number, time, and their location if not in their profile and visible.

[I don't see it as I always FF 3x through commercial blocks, 30SKIP for FB games, but I'd test if given specifics.]


----------



## jdspencer (Nov 8, 2003)

veryoldschool said:


> The locally inserted commercials. DirecTV buys the time, but then adds their own locally targets in the DVR. This local insertion is what is having problems with the 30skip.


Thanks, that sound like a reasonable explanation of the problem. I'll try to keep track of when it happens. Most recently, I've noticed it with DirecTV ads on TNT.


----------



## JoeTheDragon (Jul 21, 2008)

veryoldschool said:


> The locally inserted commercials. DirecTV buys the time, but then adds their own locally targets in the DVR. This local insertion is what is having problems with the 30skip.


DirecTV buys the time??

I think it's like cable where at the same times they put local ad's in.


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

JoeTheDragon said:


> DirecTV buys the time??
> 
> I think it's like cable where at the same times they put local ad's in.


You may be more accurate.
It doesn't really change that DirecTV ads are being replaced in the DVR with more locally targeted ads though.


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

nickff said:


> How does something like this appear after months of use on a NR? Shouldn't it be acting up from the get-go?


Your region may just now be getting the local insertions from DIRECTV.


----------



## jtudor (Feb 24, 2008)

My problem with the locally inserted commercials is that they are 3 db or more louder than the rest of the programming, and I have to grab the remote everytime one comes on.


----------



## MIKE0616 (Dec 13, 2006)

Laxguy said:


> It'd be musch easier to track that if folks would cite what program, station number, time, and their location if not in their profile and visible.
> 
> [I don't see it as I always FF 3x through commercial blocks, 30SKIP for FB games, but I'd test if given specifics.]


Good nuff, last night they were all over the ESPN broadcast of the Ga Tech game and were the D* ads that has a partnership on screen with CenturyStink. My spots come from Ft Wayne, IN. (Guess I should update my location since now in frozen north, not sunny south any more.)

Also using HR 24 DVRs with latest NR on them.


----------



## Sea bass (Jun 10, 2005)

Finally happened to me watching History Channel last night, 30 sec. slip would not work through Directv ad. Like originally posted, it appears to "slip" but just starts at the begining of the DTV ad. I thought something was wrong with my HR24, then I remembered this post! FF worked fine.


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

So you were trying to slip and not skip?


----------



## fornold (Sep 4, 2006)

Just had one watching MNF at about 1 hour in. It was a Jack In the Box commercial. It wouldn't skip. FF through.

What was weird was that after FF through, stopped at the next commercial (Joe Thiesman talking about his bathroom issues). Hit skip and it jumped back to the Jack In the Box commercial.


----------



## MIKE0616 (Dec 13, 2006)

fornold said:


> Just had one watching MNF at about 1 hour in. It was a Jack In the Box commercial. It wouldn't skip. FF through.
> 
> What was weird was that after FF through, stopped at the next commercial (Joe Thiesman talking about his bathroom issues). Hit skip and it jumped back to the Jack In the Box commercial.


This just gets better and better. Was watching SportsCenter on ESPN @ 6 last nite (EDST) and D* had a slew of ads on it that didn't appear to be local ones (no inserts for CenturyStink as the usual culprits have been) and as usual the 30skip didn't work and NEITHER did FF. If I attempted to skip or FF, it went back to beginning of ad! WTH? Was watching buffered about 5 minutes, so only way around the ads was to change channels and then come right back to ESPN as the ad was no longer showing.

The truly ironic part of this whole frustrating thing was the ad that was really flaky with this (and made me finally do the channel change thing) was the one about refer your friends and family.


----------

