# Good Bye Dish, lost 10 year customer...



## optix (May 4, 2011)

I have been a dish customer for over 10 years, my problems began last December. For some reason that they have been unable to explain, Someone at dish took it upon themselves to cancel my old account number and issue a new one. My service was never interrupted, but I found out when I logged in to pay my bill and noticed that their web site said that my account was no longer active. 

I was a little confused by this because my service was still on, I called dish and they simply said that I had a new account number "Why was my question" They could not provide and answer. I was frustrated by this, I requested to talk to a manager as I was going to cancel my service. Manager talked me out of it and placed a note onto my account that the account was not new and if I wanted to cancel I would not be charged cancellation fee.

Forward to last week, I noticed that my bills where getting excessively high. SO I decided to take a look at them and I find fees to the tune of almost 50 bucks per month on receiver fees. The fees did not make sense so I called customer service, they where unable to explain the following chanrges;

Solo DVR Receiver $10.00
Dish Platinum $10.00
HD 250 $10.00
Solo Receiver $14.00
DVR service $6.00
HD Duo DVR Receiver $17.00

So if my math is correct I was paying close to 50 bucks on receivers I own? and another 20 bucks on HD that is supposed to be free? The CSR got frustrated and her only reply was that Dish was the cheapest service in town. At this point since I had no explanation of charges I told her to cancel service. She canceled a faithful customer of ten years and did not even bother to say good bye before hanging up. So five minutes later, after my head cooled down from the negative experience, I called back wanting to re-activate service at least until I decide if I was going to go with DTV or Uverse; their reply was, sure we will re-activate account after you pay a $150 reactivation fee. Lol farewell Dish...


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## Kevin F (May 9, 2010)

I would say go with Directv (a slight fanboy here, sorry) because in most areas, uverse can provide no more than 4 HD streams to your house at one time. And sometimes less depending on your distance from the VRAD. There are many reasons why I think Directv is better than uverse but I would say to try out uverse for a month. Only do so if there are no contracts from them. This way, if your unhappy with them, then you could go to Directv with ease. But the fanboy in me says go straight to Directv


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## optix (May 4, 2011)

The DTV packages with discounts for first year are mighty tempting. I just hate to wait and have a young kid install the stuff. Wish it was like the old days where i could pick the system and install myself.


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

optix said:


> The DTV packages with discounts for first year are mighty tempting. I just hate to wait and have a young kid install the stuff. Wish it was like the old days where i could pick the system and install myself.


I installed my own. Went to a local dealer and bought it. Course you dont get the free dish/discounts that way.
As to U-verse...every single person I know that signed up for U-verse when they installed it around here about 6 months ago, are either back with satellite or cable. Every one! Your area may be better, but we have nothing but problems, freeze ups, signal outages, and crappy picture.


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## [email protected] Network (Jan 6, 2011)

Sorry to hear that you were unable to get an adequate answer to your question regarding the account number changing, and the charges on your bill. I would be very happy to answer all of these questions for you.

The account number change happened legitimately for internal reasons, basically consolidating account numbers in certain areas to make room for new account types. It is very likely that you were one of those customers, but without looking at the account, I could not verify you were part of that move. I am fairly certain that is what happened, and I believe there was information regarding that mailed to any customer affected.

As to the fees for receivers, those are not new. They have been there since a change last year around this time. The HD free was a promotion that required a sign up with auto-pay and paperless billing, as well as two year commitment around the time you mention (December). So if you had it, there is a commitment on the account. I can verify that as well (and trace down the old account to see if some things didn't migrate).

Since the account is disconnected already, there is likely not much I could do to help out as far as pricing goes, but provide the explanations that you did not get. I could also possibly manage something with regard to the monthly rate, and the re-activation fee seems pretty steep as well, so I am not sure that is a proper amount. I am sorry for your experience, and of course I am sorry to lose a customer. If you would like, I could certainly take a look into it. Just PM me a phone number and I will get answers back ASAP.


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## paja (Oct 23, 2006)

AVOID U-verse. While they advertise recording 4 shows at once, only a few can be recorded in HD and some times NONE if people in the household are watching HD shows while also recording. They are very misleading. They also dropped HALLMARK, a popular channel with females. Their HD PQ is rock bottom amongst all the services-it SUCKS>


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I'm not sure we are getting the whole story here.

I get being confused at an account number changed... but why would that drive you to cancel your service? Reading the first post, it sounds like just the account number change drove him to want to cancel.

As for the receiver charges... those are hefty, but legitimate (depending on what receiver you have on your account)... BUT since they went into effect over a year ago, and you just noticed your bill being high a week or two ago... I'm not sure what that means.

I would have noticed my bill going up last Feb with that many receiver charges on it.

I'm wondering if you had some special promotions or something that were given to you as a discount that just recently expired or something? Otherwise, there's no reason for your bill to suddenly have gone up.


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## Mike500 (May 10, 2002)

The realignment of the receiver fees, evidently, was a move to increase revenue, and still maintain the claim that Dish has the lowest package prices.

Clearly, a sizeable number of subscribers pay little attention to their bill and pay them when they are due as a matter routine. *That most often happens with banks and credit card bills.* Until recently, the banks and credit card issuers would change the rules to maximize revenue.

There are those, however, who pay attention to their bills but have little clue on the technical aspects of getting the "most bang for the buck" by choosing the least costly configuration to secure the most value for their money.

Then, there are the few, like those who visit and post on this board, who can really have the knowledge to reconfigure their systems to get the most value for their money.

Clearly, this is waht happened with the fee alignment on the receiver fees.

So, it pays to take the time and the effort to pay close asstention to the fee notices and the changes to the bill and to periodically review the bill.


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## optix (May 4, 2011)

Stewart Vernon said:


> I'm not sure we are getting the whole story here.
> 
> I get being confused at an account number changed... but why would that drive you to cancel your service? Reading the first post, it sounds like just the account number change drove him to want to cancel.


Lets see if I can clarify some things, imagine that every time you call dish, the CSR greets you knowing that you have been a customer for a long time, now imagine that they change your account number and now you appear to be a new customer to the point that when they could not explain the reasoning for changing my account number and I threatened to cancel service, they wanted to charge me the early termination fee. Not because I was under contract, but because the new account number made it appear as if I was a new customer. That was six months ago... Lets move forward to last week when I did cancel, normally for a customer that has been with dish as long as I have, when you decide to cancel the CSR sends you to what used to be retention center, I think they changed the name now. But because now I appear to be a new customer, the CSR was able to cancel the account without the need to send me to retention. It has been my experience over the 10 long years with Dish that retention is usually able to sort things out...



Stewart Vernon said:


> As for the receiver charges... those are hefty, but legitimate (depending on what receiver you have on your account)... BUT since they went into effect over a year ago, and you just noticed your bill being high a week or two ago... I'm not sure what that means. I would have noticed my bill going up last Feb with that many receiver charges on it.


If I am guilty of something, it is of having most my bills on autopay. I do not monitor them regularly. I guess I am a fool but I just noticed the big increase on my dish bill and decided to look further into it. Last I remember I was paying 160 bucks or so per month and now my bill is over 200.



Stewart Vernon said:


> I'm wondering if you had some special promotions or something that were given to you as a discount that just recently expired or something? Otherwise, there's no reason for your bill to suddenly have gone up.


I do not think the bill suddenly went up, I just happen to have noticed the extra charges. There is no hidden agenda here, I have been a happy loyal customer for a long time. But clearly with the amount of receivers that I needed, dish network is not an affordable option for me. I disappoints me that they did not even care to keep a customer like me, heck they even threatened to charge me if I did not return my LNB, mind you I did my own dish install and the lnb's that I have I purchased from Ebay, Dishnetowrk never provided me with a dish or an LNB. Of course that was by choice as I rather install my own stuff...

Thanks all for steering me away from U-verse and sharing your experiences. I think I might give DTV a shot and see what happens.



Mike500 said:


> The realignment of the receiver fees, evidently, was a move to increase revenue, and still maintain the claim that Dish has the lowest package prices.
> 
> Clearly, a sizeable number of subscribers pay little attention to their bill and pay them when they are due as a matter routine. *That most often happens with banks and credit card bills.* Until recently, the banks and credit card issuers would change the rules to maximize revenue.
> 
> ...


Mike I hear you loud and clear, what happened to the old days where one would just get a simple bill for a service. Nowadays it almost takes an accountant to figure out how to get the best bang for the buck...


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## jal (Mar 3, 2005)

I get why the OP cancelled. He's paying excessive "fees" that caused him to reach a boiling point. When as a faithful customer, he called to get an explanation, he was given a smart ass answer. His $50 per month is $600 a year. In 10 years, he will have pIaid $6,000 in "fees."

The problem can be further explained as follows: Suppose you leased a car. You paid $2,000 down, and were told your payments would be $300 per month. But, then after 5 months, your payments were raised to $400 a month. That's the same thing with these increased and new box fees. The OP probablly paid a lease fee for his box, in exchange for which he was told he could lease the box for a certain amount per month. Now, that certain monthly amount has been raised, and new fees have been added.

All providers engage in this behavior somewhat, but Dish seems to be the biggest offender. I left Dish (for similar reasons) after about 10 years for Directv and have never thought once about returning to Dish. I have looked at other options, though, because I do tire of these "fee" increases, regardless of the provider engaging in it.


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## Lucavex (Apr 26, 2011)

I'm a very happy, pleased as punch Dish Network customer.

That being said, I can sympathize with the OP. It always sucks to lose your "old salt" status due to a simple account number change.

Imagine if that were to happen on this forum. A poster who had been here since the DNS was registered suddenly had their member number change, and their post count reduced to zero.

Yeah, it won't change anything about the member, and everyone (who isn't touched in the head) will respect him/her (or not) the same as they did before.

But still, that would sting the member a bit.

I feel for you, optix. I hate to see that you're leaving us, but I wish you the best with DIRECTV. They've got bang-up customer service and if sports is your thing, you'll be in hog heaven. Cheers!


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

> Suppose you leased a car. You paid $2,000 down, and were told your payments would be $300 per month. But, then after 5 months, your payments were raised to $400 a month. That's the same thing with these increased and new box fees.


Not a valid comparison. Auto lease contracts are for fixed amounts and fixed terms. Your Dish contract allows for adjustments, but of course no one ever reads them thoroughly.



> Not because I was under contract, but because the new account number made it appear as if I was a new customer.


Apparently you didn't read the Team Member's response above. You may have been under a contract as a result of a promotion which would trigger the ETF.


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## boba (May 23, 2003)

I'll cry alligator tears for you I check my bill monthly and know what I pay. I believe it was June of 2009 that dish made the changes on fees for additional receivers. There was a lot of publicity at that time but it looks like you ignored your bill for at least 18 mo. which is your own fault. Csr roulette is used to get answers you didn't play! Have you taken TonyT up on his offer to look at your account?


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## Mike500 (May 10, 2002)

*Like bank ATM and overcharge fees, it is the recurring charges like receiver fees that is the killer.* I am sure that someone at Dish got a large "bonus" for developing the new fee schedule to optimize their revenue stream, while still being able to claim that they had the lowest monthly "package" fees. *It is their clear intent to make the calculation of the "actual cost" of the montly bill so complicated, that only a few customers will take on the challenge.*

Dish Network, apparently, is NOT the ideal service for customers who use a lot of receivers or tuner outlets.

I have been a customer for 12 years. I'm on Dish Network and currently use two tuners. Not that I have annual billing to get the free month of service. _I NEVER had and still don'tr have locals, because I don't wish to pay for something that I can get for FREE. It was a requirement with cable. _Prior to the current setup, I had a single receiver with one tuner. I paid no receiver mirroring fees. When Dish came out with the 322, I purchased one and installed it myself. I had the phone line connected, so I did not pay for the additional tuner. *Still, I paid no additional receiver fee.* I didn't pay the DVR fee, because I chose a Series 2 TiVo and paid the $299 Lifetime subscription in 2004. That TiVo records both my OTA and my Dish programming to this day. I has paid for itself many times over. And, on the secondary market, it is still worth about $400, today, if I wished to sell it.

Just 2 months, ago, I upgraded to HD for FREE. I made a 24 months commitment and got a 222 install for FREE. *Still, I pay no additional mirrowing fee.* Dish NOW allows me to lease receivers on my yearly plan. Prior to that, I had to purchase the receivers. The first receiver always does not have additional tuner fees.

*Basically, you NOW have to consider the impact of the recurring fees as the most important issue, to get the "most bang for the buck." *

In the current fee situation, basically, there would be an advantage to using 211 HD receivers with purchased hard drives and paying the $40 activation fee.

*Fortunately, I have to ability to reconfigure my system and any system at will, since I am a retired installer and Master Electrician, having years of experience in wiring.*

_Unfortunately, for most, they are unwilling or unable invest the effort in figuring out the best an least expensive configuration to fit their needs. And, basically, that's what the service providers are "banking" on._


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## Mike500 (May 10, 2002)

optix said:


> I have been a dish customer for over 10 years, my problems began last December. For some reason that they have been unable to explain, Someone at dish took it upon themselves to cancel my old account number and issue a new one. My service was never interrupted, but I found out when I logged in to pay my bill and noticed that their web site said that my account was no longer active.
> 
> I was a little confused by this because my service was still on, I called dish and they simply said that I had a new account number "Why was my question" They could not provide and answer. I was frustrated by this, I requested to talk to a manager as I was going to cancel my service. Manager talked me out of it and placed a note onto my account that the account was not new and if I wanted to cancel I would not be charged cancellation fee.
> 
> ...


First, I feel for you.

While you might not be able to get back all of the receiver and other fees that you've paid in the past, they may waive the fees for rectivation.

In your situation, I would have realigned to three ViP 211 or 211k's. That's the maximum number of HD tuners that can be leased.

I'd pay the one time $40 External Hard Drive activation fee and purchase hard drives for each of the three 211's. These are now very inexpensive, now.

Then, depending on your needs, I'd purchase "digital modulators" at about $40 each and backfeed the signals into your wiring, yourself. I'd go to Radio Shack or another extender and get "remote extenders" along with Dish IR 211 PVR capable remotes for each TV beyond those connected directly to each 211.

It takes a bit of work and some "up front" costs, but you'd only have to pay two monthly additional receiver fees.

_With the current recurring fee schedule, it is readily apparent, that this is how to get the "most bang for your buck."_


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## optix (May 4, 2011)

boba said:


> I'll cry alligator tears for you I check my bill monthly and know what I pay. I believe it was June of 2009 that dish made the changes on fees for additional receivers. There was a lot of publicity at that time but it looks like you ignored your bill for at least 18 mo. which is your own fault. Csr roulette is used to get answers you didn't play! Have you taken TonyT up on his offer to look at your account?


No need to cry on my behalf, Yes, I did send tony a PM with my info... Again no hidden agenda here my friend. I am not upset about the cash I shelled over the last 10 years, I think I gotten my money's worth. I can no longer pull my old bills but I am certain that the new charges in my case started after the Account number changed, why? I wish I could tell you...



Mike500 said:


> First, I feel for you.
> 
> While you might not be able to get back all of the receiver and other fees that you've paid in the past, they may waive the fees for rectivation.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the supportive comments, I just installed a matrix switch in my house that will cut down on the amount of receivers I will need. Currently we have 7 Tv's but they are not all used at the same time, so I think I can get away with two dvr's and maybe one or two other high deff receivers. Those receivers will be shared between the tv's.


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

> Currently we have 7 Tv's but they are not all used at the same time, so I think I can get away with two dvr's and maybe one or two other high deff receivers.


How about ONE TV and box and get the family together once in a while for a little old fashioned family time.


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## Mike500 (May 10, 2002)

optix said:


> No need to cry on my behalf, Yes, I did send tony a PM with my info... Again no hidden agenda here my friend. I am not upset about the cash I shelled over the last 10 years, I think I gotten my money's worth. I can no longer pull my old bills but I am certain that the new charges in my case started after the Account number changed, why? I wish I could tell you...
> 
> Thanks for the supportive comments, I just installed a matrix switch in my house that will cut down on the amount of receivers I will need. Currently we have 7 Tv's but they are not all used at the same time, so I think I can get away with two dvr's and maybe one or two other high deff receivers. Those receivers will be shared between the tv's.


I'd go with three ViP 211 high def receivers, period. To avoid the extradornary fees, I'd do the $40 one time external hard drive activation fee. You'll never again pay another DVR fee and only two additional receiver fees a month. Then, I'd do HD Free for Life.


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## VDP07 (Feb 22, 2006)

optix said:


> .....The fees did not make sense so I called customer service, they where unable to explain the following chanrges;
> 
> Solo DVR Receiver $10.00
> Dish Platinum $10.00
> ...


Interesting that you weren't grandfathered into "HD Free for Life" last June but you could've definatly signed up for "HD Free" now. Dish doesn't have a Solo reciever that carrries a $14 fee. Maybe you meant "Duo". If the recievers listed are all additional recievers, your total monthly reciever fees should total $34.00. (or $41.00 if the solo is actually a Duo)


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## optix (May 4, 2011)

SayWhat? said:


> How about ONE TV and box and get the family together once in a while for a little old fashioned family time.


Lol isn't that the truth!



VDP07 said:


> Interesting that you weren't grandfathered into "HD Free for Life" last June but you could've definatly signed up for "HD Free" now. Dish doesn't have a Solo reciever that carrries a $14 fee. Maybe you meant "Duo". If the recievers listed are all additional recievers, your total monthly reciever fees should total $34.00. (or $41.00 if the solo is actually a Duo)


The way listed is the way that it shows on my bill  I agree with the free HD, my thinking was that changing my account number was to eliminate any grandfather status that I may have had...


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## Mike500 (May 10, 2002)

optix said:


> Lol isn't that the truth!
> 
> The way listed is the way that it shows on my bill  I agree with the free HD, my thinking was that changing my account number was to eliminate any grandfather status that I may have had...


If you should have been "grandfathered," and you weren't, then, you could probably get an "offset" on you bill for those funds fro which you shouldn't have been charges. Those are the fees that could have been charged due to an oversight with the new account number.

*You should not have been penalized due to Dish's mistake in not being able to see the record of the full account.*


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## coldsteel (Mar 29, 2007)

That means he had 2 Solo receivers, for the $14.

About the only way the account number would change is if you bundled or de-bundled with a phone company partner, or changed from an old account number to a normal residential account number...


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## coldsteel (Mar 29, 2007)

VDP07 said:


> Interesting that you weren't grandfathered into "HD Free for Life" last June but you could've definatly signed up for "HD Free" now.


Nope, the HD Free gimme was for customers that had the combined HD/Plat HD for $10. Customers billed separately did not automatically get HDFFL. But he could have easily added it later, correct.


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## coldsteel (Mar 29, 2007)

Mike500 said:


> If you should have been "grandfathered," and you weren't, then, you could probably get an "offset" on you bill for those funds fro which you shouldn't have been charges. Those are the fees that could have been charged due to an oversight with the new account number.
> 
> *You should not have been penalized due to Dish's mistake in not being able to see the record of the full account.*


Bull, he has been charged correctly based on the equipment he had. If he had 2 duo DVR/HDDVR, a Solo DVR and two solo receivers, I should say. The receiver fees have not one thing to do with the change of account number.


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

coldsteel said:


> About the only way the account number would change is if you bundled or de-bundled with a phone company partner, or changed from an old account number to a normal residential account number...


Or .......



[email protected] Network said:


> The account number change happened legitimately for internal reasons, basically consolidating account numbers in certain areas to make room for new account types. It is very likely that you were one of those customers, but without looking at the account, I could not verify you were part of that move. I am fairly certain that is what happened, and I believe there was information regarding that mailed to any customer affected.


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## optix (May 4, 2011)

Guys no need to disagree over my account status, a this point only Tony may be able to answer some of our questions. I very much would like to know what went on and why I did not get the free HD.


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## Dave (Jan 29, 2003)

So because Dish decides to change the account number system they think they can take a 10 year customer and make them a new one day customer.
Sounds about like another executive decision Dish would come up with. Putting the customer last. Just keep the money rolling in. Does the Dish executive staff really think about some of these dumb ideas before they approve them? Think about the customers that do not have DBSTalk to turn to and communicate with the members here. They open there bill up one day and lol and behold you are a new customer with a new commitement after being with them for 10+ years.


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## [email protected] Network (Jan 6, 2011)

Looked into it. I would like to share the results on the thread just so that the whole story comes into light, but I would need permission.

I figured there would be some information listed that would clarify a lot of this.


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## optix (May 4, 2011)

[email protected] Network said:


> Looked into it. I would like to share the results on the thread just so that the whole story comes into light, but I would need permission.
> 
> I figured there would be some information listed that would clarify a lot of this.


Please do share, the whole story. Kind of scary as I thought I shared the story as accurately as I could.

1- Been a long time customer.
2- Have had DIsh HD for ever but was never given the free HD
3- My account number was changed around December "if memory serves me right".
4- My monthly bill is over $200 dollars
5- When the CSR canceled my account, I did not even get a close the door on the way out. 
6- I pay my bill with auto Pay.

I am not trying to bash dish as I liked the service and the programing, but I think they could have handled things much better.


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## bnborg (Jun 3, 2005)

SayWhat? said:


> How about ONE TV and box and get the family together once in a while for a little old fashioned family time.


You've got to be kidding, right? 

My wife watches reality shows. :eek2:


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## jerry downing (Mar 7, 2004)

bnborg said:


> You've got to be kidding, right?
> 
> My wife watches reality shows. :eek2:


Mine watches soap operas.


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## [email protected] Network (Jan 6, 2011)

You are correct, with a few omissions.

With regard to the account number change, as I guesstimated previously it happened due to consolidation of account numbers. This was not meant to cause a problem, and the "history" transferred, but not the years. Digging into the notes, I was able to find the link to the old account, and that the "status" of the account had transferred successfully. I could also find how long you had been a customer pretty easily. The account (being a new number) was only reflecting the history of the account number itself, which was only since it "flipped" to the new number.

With regard to the bill being high, you had a leased Solo DVR which you returned after cancellation, so I do not see if it is HD or not. There was also two HD DUO DVRs you had purchased, and two 311s you had purchased (all of these were active at the time of cancellation). That being said, your account looked like this (including programming):

AEP $104.99
Latino Bonus Pack $13.99
HD250 $10.00
DISH Platinum $10.00
DVR Service $6.00
SS WWOR $2.00
SS KTLA $2.00
HD DUO DVR (2nd active on account) $17.00
Solo DVR (3rd receiver active on account) $10.00
2X311s (4th and 5th receivers active on account) $14.00
Tax: A little over $24.00
That gets us to roughly the $215 you were paying.

During encounters with an agent via any method (phone or chat), there would have been what we call "Right Size" billing options. Basically, the elimination of programming that you did not want to pay extra for, such as dropping the AEP down, Latino Bonus, etc, or deactivating receivers or swapping receivers for a less-capable model (this is required on every call with regard to any statement that the bill is too high).

With regard to the rate increases, we send out information on the bill with what the new rates will be, and when they will take affect. This has happened many times. The rate change in February was no different, and communication came on the bills, a press release, and 11 million letters sent out regarding the rate change, and I am very sorry if none of those methods of communication reached you.

All that said, from this point forward the only reconnection fee would be the next month of service, which is the same for any customer (new or existing). Also, if you would like a leased DVR back (which you may or may not want, based on the bill), I can manage that as well. I am willing to assist you.


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## optix (May 4, 2011)

[email protected] Network said:


> You are correct, with a few omissions.
> 
> With regard to the account number change, as I guesstimated previously it happened due to consolidation of account numbers. This was not meant to cause a problem, and the "history" transferred, but not the years. Digging into the notes, I was able to find the link to the old account, and that the "status" of the account had transferred successfully. I could also find how long you had been a customer pretty easily. The account (being a new number) was only reflecting the history of the account number itself, which was only since it "flipped" to the new number.
> 
> ...


Tony thanks for looking into this and posting your findings, I feel vindicated since my original post was met with skepticism. I guess this is neither here or there, but when I went to reactivate I was told that the $150 was a re-activation fee. Based on your post, my original factual post is correct, I was paying close to $50 bucks in receiver fees, sure one was rented so take off 10 bucks. On top of that I was paying for HD that should have been free to me. Times are tough and turning away a customer that has been loyal as long as I have is not good business. I find it kind of crazy that I shell over $800 bucks in receivers and I still have to pay such a high monthly fee for my owned receivers. DTV charges 6 bucks and no rental fees.

That said, I really do thank you for the time you took to look into this, I am going to pass on returning to dish and I will give DTV a try. If things do not work out then maybe I will consider returning in two years.


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## scorpion43 (Mar 16, 2011)

optix said:


> Tony thanks for looking into this and posting your findings, I feel vindicated since my original post was met with skepticism. I guess this is neither here or there, but when I went to reactivate I was told that the $150 was a re-activation fee. Based on your post, my original factual post is correct, I was paying close to $50 bucks in receiver fees, sure one was rented so take off 10 bucks. On top of that I was paying for HD that should have been free to me. Times are tough and turning away a customer that has been loyal as long as I have is not good business. I find it kind of crazy that I shell over $800 bucks in receivers and I still have to pay such a high monthly fee for my owned receivers. DTV charges 6 bucks and no rental fees.
> 
> That said, I really do thank you for the time you took to look into this, I am going to pass on returning to dish and I will give DTV a try. If things do not work out then maybe I will consider returning in two years.


buh bye


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## [email protected] Network (Jan 6, 2011)

optix said:


> On top of that I was paying for HD that should have been free to me.


Actually, this is not a true statement due to some omissions (as I meant to address in my original post). HDFFL came out last June to new customers. Existing customers had to sign a two year commitment and have auto-pay and paperless billing to get it. Since you were self-admittedly not under a commitment, you did not have HDFFL on either account.

I will say at one point some people were "grandfathered" into HDFFL under a different promotion for new customers. Customers who had the old plan of "HD & Platinum" (only available to new customers during a 3 or 4 month or so promotion, at a total cost of $10) were automatically slid into HDFFL and billed for DISH Platinum separately. You account was not in that category, so it didn't qualify for the "migration" on programming.

Equipment fees, leased or purchased, are the same. We provide the smart card when necessary for access to programming (at no charge to you on an active box), update the box with software to allow it continued access and support, and add new features with those software updates in some cases. As such, there is a charge to maintain equipment you own and give it up-to-date features when available, and that was what the equipment fee was for. All providers charge on a per outlet basis, whether that is upfront or during the course of the service. Just wanted to make mention of those things.



optix said:


> DTV charges 6 bucks and no rental fees.


Hopefully you find the lack of truth in this statement prior to signing a contract. They charge upfront in many cases (especially the number of boxes you have) which will even out, especially since there is still the DVR fee, and a per box fee monthly, MRV charge if you choose to have it, and you still don't own the equipment.


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## paja (Oct 23, 2006)

jerry downing said:


> Mine watches soap operas.


You may be in luck. They are getting cancelled left and right
http://www.popeater.com/2011/05/05/katie-couric-general-hospita-abc/


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## mdavej (Jan 31, 2007)

optix said:


> ...I find it kind of crazy that I shell over $800 bucks in receivers and I still have to pay such a high monthly fee for my owned receivers. DTV charges 6 bucks and no rental fees...


I'm afraid you've been misinformed. I can't quite tell how many receivers you'll need when you switch, but it appears to be 6-9, which will run you $35-$55 in "mirror fees" at DirecTV (aka, rental fees) whether you own the boxes or not. You'll need more receivers than you had with Dish because DirecTV has no Duo DVRs that can serve 2 TVs. Every TV needs a dedicated receiver or DVR. If you plan to buy "owned" DVR's, expect to pay at least $400 each. Even then, you still have to pay monthly mirror fees. And DirecTV also charges for their Platinum package. Theirs is called HD Extra and has about half the channels Dish Platinum has.

Except for your first two receivers, all additional receivers will end up costing you several hundred dollars, I dare say in the neighborhood of the $800 you're trying to avoid. After the new customer discounts run out, you'll save a few bucks, but not much. D* and Dish pricing is pretty much the same, with receiver fees on D* being slightly less. That difference can add up when you have a lot of receivers. My guess is you'll end up saving around $10-$15 / month in receiver fees. You won't avoid much of the new equipment costs whether you stay or go.

Also look carefully at D*'s lineup. They are about 30 HD channels behind Dish (no AMC, BBCA, TCM, AMC, HLN, E!, NatGeo Wild, etc, etc). I left D* for Dish due to D*'s abysmal HD lineup. My bill was essentially the same on both systems after new customer discounts.

I do sympathize with you. DirecTV treated me exactly the same way, which was also a factor in my switching to Dish. The bottom line is the grass isn't any greener. Do what you feel is necessary by all means. Just go into it with all the facts or you'll be in for some surprises.


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## Mike500 (May 10, 2002)

mdavej said:


> I'm afraid you've been misinformed. I can't quite tell how many receivers you'll need when you switch, but it appears to be 6-9, which will run you $35-$55 in "mirror fees" at DirecTV (aka, rental fees) whether you own the boxes or not. You'll need more receivers than you had with Dish because DirecTV has no Duo DVRs that can serve 2 TVs. Every TV needs a dedicated receiver or DVR. If you plan to buy "owned" DVR's, expect to pay at least $400 each. Even then, you still have to pay monthly mirror fees. And DirecTV also charges for their Platinum package. Theirs is called HD Extra and has about half the channels Dish Platinum has.
> 
> Except for your first two receivers, all additional receivers will end up costing you several hundred dollars, I dare say in the neighborhood of the $800 you're trying to avoid. After the new customer discounts run out, you'll save a few bucks, but not much. D* and Dish pricing is pretty much the same, with receiver fees on D* being slightly less. That difference can add up when you have a lot of receivers. My guess is you'll end up saving around $10-$15 / month in receiver fees. You won't avoid much of the new equipment costs whether you stay or go.
> 
> ...


For at least the last 5 years, you can't own any of the current DirecTV receivers. Even if you paid for it, a 24 month commitment is required, and you need to return it to DirecTV, when you cancel service. They provide you with whatever they have available. You generally get a refurbish earlier model DVR or receiver. _Dish does provide refurbished receivers as replacements, but they generally supply new receivers to new customers,_

With DirecTV, for their whole house DVR, you'd have to enable their DECA network system and you have to pay $200 or more for installation above and beyond what is provided with a standard install.

I've dealt with both DirecTV and Dish CSR's. In my experience, your's is the exception. I've been with Dish for over 12 years. Fortunately, I have not dealt with one as bad as you describe. My las experience was with a young woman, who was absolutely wonderful and personable.

*The only way that you can avoid excessive recurring montly fees is to adapt you configuration as I have suggested in my previous posts. And, my suggestions are quite inexpensive.*

In the case of DBS service, with either provider, there is no longer any advantage to owning the equipment, since the monthly fees are the same for the leased and the owned receivers.


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## mdavej (Jan 31, 2007)

All great points. But I have to take exception to not being able to obtain owned equipment. There are always a few owned boxes floating around on ebay (probably "fell off the truck", came from an employee or beta tester, etc.). I bought a fair number of "owned" receivers in the past few years precisely to avoid extending my commitment. But you really have to do due diligence to avoid getting taken because many being sold as "owned" are really leased. I agree there's practically no advantage to owning. You could probably avoid the initial 2 year commitment if you did your own install and bought all the equipment second hand, at a huge initial cost. You wouldn't benefit from any new customer deals going that route.

Anyway, I thought it was important to cover the "owned' issue in detail since the OP expects to buy owned and avoid lease fees. While owned boxes can be obtained at great risk, cost and effort, the monthly mirror/rental/lease fees cannot be avoided.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

optix said:


> Tony thanks for looking into this and posting your findings, I feel vindicated since my original post was met with skepticism. I guess this is neither here or there, but when I went to reactivate I was told that the $150 was a re-activation fee. Based on your post, my original factual post is correct, I was paying close to $50 bucks in receiver fees, sure one was rented so take off 10 bucks. On top of that I was paying for HD that should have been free to me. Times are tough and turning away a customer that has been loyal as long as I have is not good business. I find it kind of crazy that I shell over $800 bucks in receivers and I still have to pay such a high monthly fee for my owned receivers.


In your original post you stated that the reason you wanted to cancel was because your account number had been changed. You then said you later noticed how high your bill was... well over a year after those rates had been in effect.

I empathize on the high bill and need to cut back... but I don't know why you wouldn't have noticed when the bill originally went up... and why you wouldn't have been looking to cancel then... instead of looking to cancel because your account number had been changed.

To me, it seemed like your original post was not completely forthright because it didn't seem logical for someone to want to cancel just because of an account number change.

I echo the sentiment of others... that with the number of receivers you are talking about, you really should be clear on things before signing with DirecTV... otherwise you'll get a surprise there too when you see extra receiver charges for all those additional rooms.


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## optix (May 4, 2011)

Stewart Vernon said:


> In your original post you stated that the reason you wanted to cancel was because your account number had been changed. You then said you later noticed how high your bill was... well over a year after those rates had been in effect.
> 
> I empathize on the high bill and need to cut back... but I don't know why you wouldn't have noticed when the bill originally went up... and why you wouldn't have been looking to cancel then... instead of looking to cancel because your account number had been changed.
> 
> ...


If you read my previous post, you will notice that the account number change and the reason that I canceled are two different instances. I also explained why in December I felt like canceling service after the account number change and why I canceled service a week or so ago. I did not cancel service due to the account number change, service was canceled due to a CSR providing bad customer service and of course the high bills. I also explained on previous posts why I did not notice the change, the expression out of sight out of mind fits this case. My DTV change is as follows, $67.00 bucks a month for a year for service without the HBO's but free HD, If I want that the HBO's Stars etc the it will cost me 35 or 40 additional dollars. One time fee of $299 for four HD receivers of which Two are DVR's. The receivers come with built in Network so no need to pay anything additional to network them and get the whole home DVR.

After the year will be paying, $35.00 over the $67 dollars, so a total of $102 dollars that includes equipment rental fees and whole house DVR fee. I can live with those numbers, even if I add the fith receiver and I add the HBO's like I had with Dish I would still be paying $102 plus $40 for the HBO's and $6 dollar receiver rental fee. So that would give me a grand total of $148.00 for comparable programing, that is a far cry from the $200 plus I was paying...

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I respect that, I will try DTV "they are installing as I type and if it does not work out then I will go back to dish. I was happy with the dish programing but unhappy with the prices... Close to $40 bucks a month in receiver fees after spending maybe $1000 on the very same receives is insane. Now I am out only $300 bucks, no receiver monthly fee and only $6 bucks a month fee for the mirroring, I was paying $10 bucks for rental alone for one DVR from dish. I had that dvr as long as I had the account so lets say at least 8 years, I paid almost 1k on rental fees for that one DVR alone...

Again shame on me for not staying on top my bill...


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## coldsteel (Mar 29, 2007)

It is NOT a rental fee, it is a programming fee. You WILL be paying that with DirecTV also.


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## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

When people come here to say they are leaving Dish because Dish is so bad I either ignore the thread, or wave goodby. But you are very sincere, a long time subscriber, and I can see at first if I was in your shoes I would probably be upset too. Costs have risen, and if you were not paying attention it probably seemed like "what the h--l is going on here," lol

All that said, and understanding Dish probably could have handled things better, and you already acknowledged you should paid more attention to the bills, I am very certain you will not see the savings you think, unless you are getting less of something. (The sports VS national HD aside that is a personal choice of which is more important)
I have yet to see any large difference in cost for very similar services between Dish and Direct, promotions not included. When a poster who said he was saving large bucks finally shows his bill, you find things like he was in a much lesser package, or has less receivers now, or had the protection plan and now doesn't, etc. etc. This applies both ways, leaving Direct to Dish or the other way. You just have to ask yourself, between Dish and Direct (Evil Cable is not included in this) does it seem reasonable that with either provider you can save over $50 every month for the same services after promotions? (Again, not getting into Sports VS national HD)


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## RasputinAXP (Jan 23, 2008)

optix said:


> My DTV change is as follows, $67.00 bucks a month for a year for service without the HBO's but free HD, If I want that the HBO's Stars etc the it will cost me 35 or 40 additional dollars. One time fee of $299 for four HD receivers of which Two are DVR's. The receivers come with built in Network so no need to pay anything additional to network them and get the whole home DVR.
> 
> After the year will be paying, $35.00 over the $67 dollars, so a total of $102 dollars that includes equipment rental fees and whole house DVR fee.


Without premiums:
$67.99 a month, months 1-3 (if you're getting that "Watch More Save More" bonus $10 on the website)
$77.95 months 4-12 (Free stuff expires, then so does WMSM),
$108.95 months 12-24

plus $300 up front for the receivers.

Plus, if I'm understanding this correctly, you're "modifying your package" so to speak (going down one level from top tier), plus dropping one of the TVs.



That's a lot of initial outlay and effort. Hopefully it's worth it for you.
Edit: Wait, AND you're not doing any of the following:
Latino Bonus Pack $13.99
DISH Platinum $10.00
SS WWOR $2.00
SS KTLA $2.00

You could delete any or all of those and you'd be far better off. I...

never mind, sorry, just...yeah. I don't get it.

Edit2: OK, doing the same to your Dish bill (dropping one tier and one receiver, dropping extraneous package addons and free HD) gets you to...109.99. So you're saving a nickel.


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## jal (Mar 3, 2005)

The bottom line is that the OP is getting "fee'd to death," whether or not there is some complicated explanation for it. Simply put, it appears he had enough. I don't blame him.


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## coldsteel (Mar 29, 2007)

jal said:


> The bottom line is that the OP is getting "fee'd to death," whether or not there is some complicated explanation for it. Simply put, it appears he had enough. I don't blame him.


And he WILL have the same thing with DirecTV. YMMV.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

coldsteel said:


> It is NOT a rental fee, it is a programming fee. You WILL be paying that with DirecTV also.


So someone with 4 722's will pay the same as someone with 4 HR 24's for programming fees?


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## RasputinAXP (Jan 23, 2008)

jal said:


> The bottom line is that the OP is getting "fee'd to death," whether or not there is some complicated explanation for it. Simply put, it appears he had enough. I don't blame him.


"Fix" his Dish programming, take a 2 year commitment for Free HD, 24 mo @ $109.99 = $2639.76

Move to Direct, take a 2 year commitment, pay $300 up front = $2512.92

$120 total savings over 24 months. That's...$5 a month savings on average. This isn't even including whatever premiums get juggled around, this is just on base packages.


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## coldsteel (Mar 29, 2007)

Shades228 said:


> So someone with 4 722's will pay the same as someone with 4 HR 24's for programming fees?


No, but it's idiotic to assume you will not have the same issue with additional receiver fees with DirecTV. Both companies charge them, but have different scales.


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## optix (May 4, 2011)

coldsteel said:


> No, but it's idiotic to assume you will not have the same issue with additional receiver fees with DirecTV. Both companies charge them, but have different scales.


You did see my receivers fees correct? Let me post them again;

Solo DVR Receiver $10.00
Solo Receiver $14.00
HD Duo (2) DVR Receiver $17.00

For DTV I am playing a flat $6.00 fee per receiver. $41 bucks for Dish with one leased receiver and 4 purchased as opposed to $24 bucks DTV 5 leased receivers, first receiver there is not receiver fee. The whole house DVR is a Dream!!!

So apples to apples,

I paid Dish over $1000 purchasing receivers and since I had the leased receiver for lets say 8 years they charged me almost $1000 on lease fees for the leased receiver. Remember when you lease the dish receiver you pay the monthly mirroring fee in addition you pay a leasing fee that is why I was paying $10.00 bucks a month for the Solo DVR Receiver. The fee dish was cahrging for my two duo's makes nosense what so ever $17.00 so that is about $8.50 a piece, where do they come up with such and odd number...

Now lets go with DTV, only $299 out pocket for four receivers "2 DVR's", I bought a 3rd DVR today that was an additional $199.00 so that would give me a grand total of $500 bucks out pocket, five leased receivers and only $6.00 per month fee for four of them. From where I am standing that is a much better deal...

Programing is probably close in price, except that as a new subscriber I get the $35.00 off per month for a year, maybe everyone should switch every two years? To get new member promotions...


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## RasputinAXP (Jan 23, 2008)

optix said:


> You did see my receivers fees correct? Let me post them again;
> 
> Solo DVR Receiver $10.00
> Solo Receiver $14.00
> ...


Dish charged you $17 for ONE Duo. The first was included. Like I pointed out above, you're saving about $120 over two years with this deal. At least to me, it's not worth going through changing everything for $5 a month.

Again, in the end your monthly price ON THE SAME PROGRAMMING from both works out to 5 cents cheaper with Direct.

You're not getting screwed here, you're just...not getting the deal you think you are.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

"RasputinAXP" said:


> Dish charged you $17 for ONE Duo. The first was included. Like I pointed out above, you're saving about $120 over two years with this deal. At least to me, it's not worth going through changing everything for $5 a month.
> 
> Again, in the end your monthly price ON THE SAME PROGRAMMING from both works out to 5 cents cheaper with Direct.
> 
> You're not getting screwed here, you're just...not getting the deal you think you are.


What he gains in HD PQ is huge and may not be measured in dollars and cents.


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## RasputinAXP (Jan 23, 2008)

Hoosier205 said:


> What he gains in HD PQ is huge and may not be measured in dollars and cents.


I could beat you with a large foam rubber bat right about now. PQ was never one of his 'issues'.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

"RasputinAXP" said:


> I could beat you with a large foam rubber bat right about now. PQ was never one of his 'issues'.


It's an issue for every Dish sub


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## RasputinAXP (Jan 23, 2008)

Hoosier205 said:


> It's an issue for every Dish sub


No, it's really not. Get back on your side of the fence.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

"RasputinAXP" said:


> No, it's really not. Get back on your side of the fence.


Haha. Will do. Enjoy your HD-Lite.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Hoosier205 said:


> Haha. Will do. Enjoy your HD-Lite.


bye... 

I'll enjoy my HD-Lite, especially on BBCA and AMC. Beats the heck out of SD-Lite...


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

lparsons21 said:


> bye...
> 
> I'll enjoy my HD-Lite, especially on BBCA and AMC. Beats the heck out of SD-Lite...


That's a true statement Dish Network's MPEG2 SD is 544x480,D*'s 480x480.:eek2:

So I guess Dish Network's MPEG2 SD would be considered SD Plus?.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

I'm on the EA and my SD is MPEG4 I believe. I do know that my SD now is even better than it was on the WA.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

IMO, switching from one SAT provider to the other always seems very rosy. And I will give D* credit, they have sent me some very attractive offers to come back. And since today is a slow day and I like playing with numbers, I thought I'd look to see if switching made financial sense.

I have to adjust my subscription level because of the freebie Starz to the AEP with Dish, add the DVR fee, and $10/month for the Vip612 and I would be paying $121/month with Dish.

In order to switch, I would need 3 HDDVRs from D* to retain the 6 tuner w/DVR capability I now have, and will use D*'s top programming package. Yeah, I know the D* top package has a bunch of sports that E*'s doesn't, but that has no value to me at all. I'm a boxing and golf fan, other sports on rare occasions.

Upfront cost for 3 HDDVRs = $298
Premium+DVR+(2) Mirror fees = $65.99 f/3 months
Same for the next 9 months = $110.99 f/9 months

Total 1st year costs = $1605.87

So it would cost me $153 in the first year to switch. For that I would lose many national HD channels and not have all the channels available in the HD addon (D*'s is substantially less channels, but cheaper).

the only way I can make it cheaper than Dish is to reduce the HDDVR count by 1, which of course, reduces my recording capability. I would get slightly better HD video according to Hoosier205, but that hardly seems worth it...


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## mdavej (Jan 31, 2007)

Hoosier205 said:


> Haha. Will do. Enjoy your HD-Lite.


Hoosier, I've never seen such contempt for a company in my life. You seem to scour the net looking for Dish bashing opportunities. Did a Dish van run over your dog or something? Of course we'd all like better PQ from all providers, D* included. But Dish's HD-lite still beats most cable HD. I realize I'm talking to a wall, but for the benefit of others who may be on the fence, there is barely any visible difference between Dish and D* HD unless you have a really big screen. I wonder how many HD snobs who raved about the royal wedding coverage on D* even realized they were watching HD-lite courtesy of BBC's feed to all the networks.


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## scorpion43 (Mar 16, 2011)

mdavej said:


> Hoosier, I've never seen such contempt for a company in my life. You seem to scour the net looking for Dish bashing opportunities. Did a Dish van run over your dog or something? Of course we'd all like better PQ from all providers, D* included. But Dish's HD-lite still beats most cable HD. I realize I'm talking to a wall, but for the benefit of others who may be on the fence, there is barely any visible difference between Dish and D* HD unless you have a really big screen. I wonder how many HD snobs who raved about the royal wedding coverage on D* even realized they were watching HD-lite courtesy of BBC's feed to all the networks.


theres NO difference between Dish and D* HD.
i've had both 
i now have DISH and COMCAST HD and even comcast's HD is better than DIRECTV's


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

scorpion43 said:


> theres NO difference between Dish and D* HD.
> i've had both
> i now have DISH and COMCAST HD and even comcast's HD is better than DIRECTV's


Comcast HD is better than Dish?


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

Dont have DISH, but Comcast doesnt downrez their HD feeds. I disagree with the poster above you that they are better than DirecTv though. D* does have a slightly sharper picture on my 60" TV on the 1080i channels. Not that noticable unless you A/B compare them though. I doubt an average viewer would notice any difference.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

"scorpion43" said:


> theres NO difference between Dish and D* HD.
> i've had both
> i now have DISH and COMCAST HD and even comcast's HD is better than DIRECTV's


That's not even possible. You apparently do not know what Dish does to every single 1080i channel and the overly aggressive compression scheme used with both their 720p and 1080i channels.


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## scorpion43 (Mar 16, 2011)

Hoosier205 said:


> That's not even possible. You apparently do not know what Dish does to every single 1080i channel and the overly aggressive compression scheme used with both their 720p and 1080i channels.


the truth hurts huh


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

"scorpion43" said:


> the truth hurts huh


So you admit to not knowing anything about it?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Guys, don't feed the troll ... talk about the issues the OP has raised. It is pointless to argue with someone who is only here to argue.

:backtotop


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

_Seconding James' comments... Please discuss the topic. Much of the last few posts have relatively little to do with the original topic._


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## coldsteel (Mar 29, 2007)

And the topic is pretty much over. He quit because he didn't realize there were fee changes over a year ago. Nothing to do with his account number mod. This has run it's course.


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

Just remember, you can never win if you wrestle with a pig.

You both get filthy but the pig likes it.


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