# Has the Hopper cured the 722's many bad faults?



## Wisguy (Aug 20, 2012)

I've had the 722 for almost two years and to be blunt, it is a very poorly engineered, outright POS of a product, probably the worst designed and implemented consumer electronics product I've ever used. Unquestionably, I would switch back to DirecTV, even though I haven't had the 5-8x/year billing problems with Dish that I had with DirecTV, if my only option was to continue with the 722, but I'm wondering if Dish's new Hopper DVR has cured its predecessor's problems.

Specifically, does the Hopper have the following problems that the 722 has:

1) Poorly implemented FF and RW. With every other DVR I've ever used, fastforwarding through the commercials, one hits the play button as soon as one sees the programming beginning and the DVR will stop, automatically rewind maybe 10 seconds or so, and then start playing at the very start of the programming. With the 722, when you see the start of the programming while fastforwarding, you press play and then it starts playing immediately at that point, maybe 15 seconds into the programming. So then each and every time you fastforward through commercials, you have to hit play, then rewind and watch the last commercial in order to see the start of the programming. This problem has bugged me each and every single day that I've used my 722.

2) Cannot record an entire program unless programmed to do so from the start. Say you start watching a movie and realize that you want to record the entire movie. It will not let you record it all, only from the point that you hit the record button, even if you are able to rewind to the beginning.

3) Cannot rewind or record the entire program that was playing llive in the background after stopping watching a recorded program - with my old DirecTV DVR, if I was watching a recorded program off the hard drive, if I finished and then realized that the program playing live was interesting, I could rewind up to 90 minutes or hit the record button and record the entire program. the 722 won't allow this.

4) Cannot control live programming while in Guide or List Recorded Programming mode. Live TV plays in a window in the top right corner of the screen during these two modes, but you cannot control it at all without exiting the Guide or List Recorded. With my DirecTV DVR, if I wanted to pause the program (say a violent story came on the news when my young daughter wandered into the room or I get a phone call), the Pause, Stop, FF, RW buttons still worked even the though the programming was in the small window, but with the 722 in Guide or List mode, you have to cancel out of the mode altogether to control the underlying program.

5) No screen saver (in essence). The 722's screen saver does not kick in until at least 4-5 hours has passed, which is a major problem since I have it connected to a plasma TV and by the time the 722 decides to throw up a screen saver, whatever has been paused has burned an image into my plasma screen.

6) The 722 will decide to shut down if, after several hours with no remote input, you fail to click on the "cancel" button when it throws up the "DVR has been inactive" window.

7) Random failure to record scheduled programming. I would say that between 5% and 10 % of the time, a show I've got the 722 programmed to record won't record, even when I have verified that there was no conflict with a higher priority sheduled recording. This was true on both the original 722 I had that had to be replaced because of sound problems, and on the replacement unit.

8) Pressing the RW or FF Skip buttons (i.e. 30sec. commercial skip) repeatedly will sometimes skip to the very beginning or the very end of the programming, instead of maybe 5 or 6 30-second skips ahead.

9) Remote control - is it easier to use, more ergonomic, have better sized and positioned buttons for use by feel in a dark room, etc...?

I know I've had at least a half dozen other problems with the 722 including the fact that the search and scheduling menus are not as clear, quick and easy to use as they were on my old DirecTV DVR and will update this post if any other specifc issues come to mind. 

Any input on these issues would be appreciated. Thanks


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## patmurphey (Dec 21, 2006)

I think that you should just go back to DirecTV. Your complaints are either an inaccurate representation of the 722 or reflect a difference in features.

Or, are you just trolling?


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## n0qcu (Mar 23, 2002)

1. IF you really would rather use FF instead of the 30 sec skip fwd during commercials hit the skip back button rather than the play button to resume normal speed.
2. the 722 has an options menu when you press the record button to allow you to recoed the entire program (If you were watching from the beginning) On the Hopper you MUST rewind to the beginning before you press the record button.
3. On all DISH DVRs there is no buffer while watching a DVR'd event.
4. Always been been that way on all DISH DVRs
5. No change except the inactivity time now has a two hour option on the Hopper.
6. That is by design, the inactivity time warns you before shutting down to standby.
If you don't want it to shutdown, turn off the inactivity timer.
7. Its very rare to not record a scheduled recording but it happens with any DVR (even tivo)
8. Some seem to have problems with the skip buttons, they have always worked for me.
9. I like the DISH remote, you didn't say which remote you have but the 20.0, 21.0, 21.1, 32.0 and 40.0 remotes all have the same size and placement of buttons.


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## strikes2k (Dec 10, 2008)

When I first started reading your post I thought I was going to read about reliability issues or some such. Typically that's what POS and "faults" mean. I thought "hmm I never had reliability issues with either my 622 or 722" but was willing to listen. Instead, you're complaining about how DISH decided the behavior of the product should work. I don't think that quaflifies as "POS." You disagree with DISH's software design choices. If that's the case I doubt the Hopper is going to be any better for you.


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## Wisguy (Aug 20, 2012)

patmurphey said:


> I think that you should just go back to DirecTV. Your complaints are either an inaccurate representation of the 722 or reflect a difference in features.
> 
> Or, are you just trolling?


What the heck kind of response is this??

I joined this website because I have a very valid question, namely, will the new Dish DVR cure the problems I had over the past 23 months with the old Dish DVR or should I go through the hassles of switching back to DirecTV? My contract with Dish is up in a few weeks and I genuinely want to research this matter before committing to one or the other satellite company for another two years. This appears to be a very appropriate website for posting this sort of inquiry, is it not? But instead of getting a "Welcome to the site, let me see if I can help you" first response, I get a bizarre accusation of being either a liar and/or a troll. Pat, are you a Dish employee?

OK, I took the time to write out a detailed list of issues I had with this DVR, PatMurphey, put your money where your mouth is and point out every single alleged inaccuracy in anything I've written. And if you haven't personally experienced one of the problems I have had that I listed, that hardly renders you qualified to judge the accuracy of the problems I had.

I've been a member of other sites before where other established members have been complete horses asses to new members, as this PatMurphey person has done with me, and pompously driven the new member away, which only hurts the site. I've got a bit thicker skin than that and hopefully I will receive an actual constructive and helpful response to my inquiry rather than a snide set of accusations and dismissal of my questions.


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## Wisguy (Aug 20, 2012)

n0qcu said:


> 1. IF you really would rather use FF instead of the 30 sec skip fwd during commercials hit the skip back button rather than the play button to resume normal speed.
> 2. the 722 has an options menu when you press the record button to allow you to recoed the entire program (If you were watching from the beginning) On the Hopper you MUST rewind to the beginning before you press the record button.
> 3. On all DISH DVRs there is no buffer while watching a DVR'd event.
> 4. Always been been that way on all DISH DVRs
> ...


Kevin,

Thank you for taking the time to respond to my specific, enumerated issues. That was very helpful, the sort of response I was hoping to get when I posted here. I very much appreciate you taking the time to respond.

As to Strikes2k's post, how on earth can lack of functionality and frequently annoying operation of basic features not be considered relevant in assessing the worth of the product? That's like saying that if the Acme 2000 compact car has sloppy handling, a weak engine that gets poor mileage, a cheap plastic dash, difficult to use radio and heater/AC controls, and bad visibility, it would not be fair to call it a piece of junk compared to the competition because the issue is merely one's preferences with how Acme decided to implement the vehicle's features. I'm betting that Strikes2k has never used Tivo or one of DirecTV's DVRs and thus does not have a basis for comparison. My wife and I have both found them to be vastly better than Dish's DVRs, and I've talked to others who switched from DirecTV to Dish who felt the same way.

Unfortunately I did not research the Dish DVRs sufficiently before I switched (and was out of town and thus not using my Dish equipment during almost all of the intial cancellation period), but I am trying to do a better job this time around. It seems to me that DirecTV's product engineers are people who actually use their own products and design ones that are easy to use and incorporate desirable features. I cannot imagine anyone who has used both satellite companies' DVRs and would prefer Dish's over DirecTV's based on functionality and ease of use. I think I'm going to switch back to DirecTV, notwithstanding that their billing department used to screw up my bills at least once every three months. I'd rather be aggravated every other month when I open up a bill, than every time I pick up the remote. It would be nice if there was a company out there that could get everything right.


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## coldsteel (Mar 29, 2007)

The problem is, you're wanting apples when you have oranges. Different companies, for reasons of copyright, avoiding infringement of such and ways they want their systems to operate, have different functionality for some DVR functions. What you describe is, in your opinion, bad OS. Most of us do not feel that way. Also, I've had DirecTV before. The only thing I miss from my R15 is the excellent Search capability.


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## jdskycaster (Sep 1, 2008)

So he wants help from the Dish community but feels the need to start out by using POS? Nice.

Most of these issues are a lack of understanding. When switching from one provider to the other there is a learning curve. Some choose to learn others just get frustrated. I think switching back to Directv was a good suggestion. Both of my 722's were problem free and worked as Dish designed them. I only upgraded them both to Hoppers because I wanted networked DVR's, PTAT and Autohop. Most of what is frustrating you related to implementation will most likely continue to frustrate you. Read through the DirecTV threads and you will see just as many frustrated users on that side of the fence.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

_Moderator note... please do not attack the poster. Attack the issues. If you have help or a valid response, please post it... disagree with the poster's thoughts or evaluations even... but no personal attacks.

Thanks!_


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## peano (Feb 1, 2004)

Wisguy comes from D* and doesn't like how Dish thinks a PVR should work.

I tried going from Dish's concept to D*'s and I didn't like it at all.

I don't want the PVR to jump back a few seconds after pressing FFW.

Its all what you are used to.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Wisguy said:


> I've had the 722 for almost two years and to be blunt, it is a very poorly engineered, outright POS of a product, probably the worst designed and implemented consumer electronics product I've ever used.


I find this hard to believe. Dish receivers aren't without their faults to be sure... but the worst design AND implementation ever? I have and probably will own far worse things than even the worst complain I've ever had about Dish.



Wisguy said:


> Specifically, does the Hopper have the following problems that the 722 has:
> 
> 1) Poorly implemented FF and RW. With every other DVR I've ever used, fastforwarding through the commercials, one hits the play button as soon as one sees the programming beginning and the DVR will stop, automatically rewind maybe 10 seconds or so, and then start playing at the very start of the programming. With the 722, when you see the start of the programming while fastforwarding, you press play and then it starts playing immediately at that point, maybe 15 seconds into the programming. So then each and every time you fastforward through commercials, you have to hit play, then rewind and watch the last commercial in order to see the start of the programming. This problem has bugged me each and every single day that I've used my 722.


To be blunt on this one... Every other DVR you've ever used probably was either a Tivo, used Tivo licensed technology, or was sued by Tivo. Dish lost the Tivo suit and had to redesign some things so as to not infringe on some of their patents.

Nobody knows for sure... but some functions on the DVRs did start to be less accurate around this time... so we can only assume (unless Dish says otherwise) that their changes to avoid Tivo patents were not as good as what they were previously doing.

After losing the suit, some speculated maybe Dish would start paying a licensing fee and put the old code back... but it would appear that Dish wants to avoid paying the licensing fee and stick with their workarounds.



Wisguy said:


> 2) Cannot record an entire program unless programmed to do so from the start. Say you start watching a movie and realize that you want to record the entire movie. It will not let you record it all, only from the point that you hit the record button, even if you are able to rewind to the beginning.


The Dish DVRs only have a 1 hour active buffer. While there might sometimes be a glitch, I have always been able to rewind back to the beginning of a show/movie as long as it was not more than 1 hour ago and press REC and have it record the whole program from the start.

You do have to rewind to the beginning... but I find this to work every time I want to do it.



Wisguy said:


> 3) Cannot rewind or record the entire program that was playing llive in the background after stopping watching a recorded program - with my old DirecTV DVR, if I was watching a recorded program off the hard drive, if I finished and then realized that the program playing live was interesting, I could rewind up to 90 minutes or hit the record button and record the entire program. the 722 won't allow this.


That's because there is no live-in-the-background buffering when you are watching a recorded program. There is a workaround, though since you have a 722 dual-tuner DVR...

As long as you aren't using the other tuner to record something else... what I often do is put my receiver on a channel, press the PAUSE button, then swap to the other tuner before playing back a recording. Then after that recording finishes, I can go back to Live TV and then swap to the previously paused tuner. As long as you don't go past the 1 hour limit, this too should work every time.



Wisguy said:


> 4) Cannot control live programming while in Guide or List Recorded Programming mode. Live TV plays in a window in the top right corner of the screen during these two modes, but you cannot control it at all without exiting the Guide or List Recorded. With my DirecTV DVR, if I wanted to pause the program (say a violent story came on the news when my young daughter wandered into the room or I get a phone call), the Pause, Stop, FF, RW buttons still worked even the though the programming was in the small window, but with the 722 in Guide or List mode, you have to cancel out of the mode altogether to control the underlying program.


Dish DVRs haven't ever done this to my knowledge, but I grant you... this would be a nice feature. One problem, though, is that Dish uses some of those keys to do other things... Like in the EPG, the FF and REW buttons scroll ahead/back faster in the EPG.. so they would have to do something else with those commands to implement this.



Wisguy said:


> 5) No screen saver (in essence). The 722's screen saver does not kick in until at least 4-5 hours has passed, which is a major problem since I have it connected to a plasma TV and by the time the 722 decides to throw up a screen saver, whatever has been paused has burned an image into my plasma screen.


The inactivity setting should be able to be changed to go into standby and kick in the screen saver after only 2 hours... of course this stops all buffering.

When I had an HDTV that was subject to burn-in and I wanted to do something like walk away for a while... I would just turn my HDTV off but leave my Dish receiver on.



Wisguy said:


> 6) The 722 will decide to shut down if, after several hours with no remote input, you fail to click on the "cancel" button when it throws up the "DVR has been inactive" window.


You can disable this feature. I disable it on mine.



Wisguy said:


> 7) Random failure to record scheduled programming. I would say that between 5% and 10 % of the time, a show I've got the 722 programmed to record won't record, even when I have verified that there was no conflict with a higher priority sheduled recording. This was true on both the original 722 I had that had to be replaced because of sound problems, and on the replacement unit.


Problems will happen from time to time... and only some of them are receiver-specific. EPG errors can cause missed timers too. Wrong info from the channel or Tribune data... a power fluctuation at just the wrong time... but yes, every once in a while there are some outright failures by the DVR to record when it is supposed to do so.



Wisguy said:


> 8) Pressing the RW or FF Skip buttons (i.e. 30sec. commercial skip) repeatedly will sometimes skip to the very beginning or the very end of the programming, instead of maybe 5 or 6 30-second skips ahead.


This is related to the Tivo discussion from earlier in this reply... it used to work better than it does now. I'm sure Dish is slowly working on tweaking it, but other things probably are more of a priority.



Wisguy said:


> 9) Remote control - is it easier to use, more ergonomic, have better sized and positioned buttons for use by feel in a dark room, etc...?


I'm not sure what exact problems you have with the Dish remote. I actually quite like it and find it very easy to use by feel in the dark. I rarely look at the remote when I'm using it. I would think after 2 years you would at some point adjust to it.

Most of the modern Dish DVRs have a very similar remote size, shape, and button arrangement. Some minor differences but largely the same layout.


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## Marlin Guy (Apr 8, 2009)

OP,
Many of your questions seem to regard not so much problems with previous implementations as they are about your own personal likes or dislikes.
The Hopper is the most stable and capable DVR I've had.
If you came to my house and tried to force me to take another HR anything in trade for it, you'd have one heck of a fight on your hands.
I wouldn't go back to DirecTV's crappy hardware if they offered me 5 years of free programming. I fix broken devices all day long. When I get home and relax I don't want to have to work on my DVR. I just want it to work.

Hopper meets my needs.


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## sregener (Apr 17, 2012)

Wisguy said:


> It seems to me that DirecTV's product engineers are people who actually use their own products and design ones that are easy to use and incorporate desirable features. I cannot imagine anyone who has used both satellite companies' DVRs and would prefer Dish's over DirecTV's based on functionality and ease of use.


Hmmm. Well... You'll have to put me in the camp of those who owned and used DirecTV DVRs and prefer the Hopper. I got an HR21 from DirecTV a few years back, and when I asked the installer if it was slow, like I'd read online, he said, "Some people think so, but I think it's okay." And it was okay at first. But over two years, it would at times be completely unresponsive, especially for the first 30 seconds after turning it on. There's nothing like trying to change a channel or start a program and mashing remote buttons over and over with nothing happening to make you an unhappy customer. From power-up, it would take me 45 seconds to change a channel or start up a recorded program. When I would fast-forward at 4x or faster, I'd only get the top 1/10 of the screen - the rest would be black so I couldn't see the program I was trying to fast-forward through.

I've been displeased with the Hopper's firmware updates since about S2.12, in that they slowed down the 30-second skip operation. It used to be lightning-fast, but now is more like DirecTV's slight pause (half second or so) before continuing playback. If I had one usability complaint with the Hopper, that would be it.

If I was even considering going back to DirecTV, I'd do some long and hard research on the slowness of their DVRs. It doesn't appear to be universal - some DVRs are perfectly fine, but others with the same model number are impossibly slow. After two years of waiting for the engineers to fix it, I finally gave up and gave Dish a try. (Note that the Tivo model is very fast, but lacks many of the features of the other DirecTV DVRs, and charges an extra fee.) I have not regretted my choice.


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## Marlin Guy (Apr 8, 2009)

Developers at DirecTV are what I refer to as "serial muckers" in the IT field.
They like to get in there and "fix" things when they barely have the ability to operate a coffee machine.


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## Wisguy (Aug 20, 2012)

jdskycaster said:


> So he wants help from the Dish community but feels the need to start out by using POS? Nice.
> 
> Most of these issues are a lack of understanding. When switching from one provider to the other there is a learning curve. Some choose to learn others just get frustrated. I think switching back to Directv was a good suggestion. Both of my 722's were problem free and worked as Dish designed them. I only upgraded them both to Hoppers because I wanted networked DVR's, PTAT and Autohop. Most of what is frustrating you related to implementation will most likely continue to frustrate you. Read through the DirecTV threads and you will see just as many frustrated users on that side of the fence.


Is this a forum of people who have Dish equipment or a forum of people who work for Dish? I agree that if I had posted a juvenile initial fanboi post of the sort that one sees on videogame or car websites (e.g. Dewd, that SUX!), then you would have cause to complain about my post. But I think the detailed list of all of the issues I have with my Dish DVR should give credence to my statement that I think this product really is poorly designed and not as user-friendly as the competition. And I think it should be obvious that I have a problem with Dish's equipment's functionality or lack therof, not with people who think their Dish equipment is fine.

After nearly two years with the 722, it isn't a question of not being familiar with it or adapting to it - it flat out doesn't do some of the things I want it to do or else its implimentation is awkward and inconvenient. And while Dish's reluctance to cater to Tivo's licensing demands may be an explanation, it is not, as some people here seem to suggest, an excuse or full justification for having a product that is more difficult to use. Being more difficult to use, particularly with functions that I use on a daily basis, makes this an inferior product.

Stewart, thank you for your post. I do appreciate your time and effort in responding to my specific points, as well. But it seems that some of what you are suggesting is an awkward series of jumping through hoops to get a portion of the functionality that my old DirecTV receiver had.

Of course DirecTV's equipment is not perfect and also requires some degree of owner familiarization - I had problems with my DirecTV recievers in the past, too, although I never had the delay issues mentioned above. But when I called DirecTV's tech support, I got someone who was sitting in an American workplace, completely fluent in English and knowledgeable about the products; if their customer support was half as competent as their tech support, I never would have left DirecTV. When I had problems with the sound fading in and out on my first 722, the first two outsourced Dish tech support guys kept telling me over and over in thickly accented English just to unplug the receiver's power and HDMI cables and then reconnect them, even after I told them I had already done so - that was all that they seemed able to offer as far as technical advice. It took three calls before I finally got someone who could confirm with me that I had a defective unit that needed to be replaced. And when I had problems with the display being stuck in a zoomed mode, it took two calls to get a Dish tech support person who could tell me the very easy fix, namely that someone had accidentally hit the "*" key on the remote which changes the zoom and aspect ratios and pressing that button a few more times would return it to a normal aspect.

I am not some sort of curmudgeon resistant to change or who views differences as always one is superior, one is inferior. When DirecTV changed from the Tivo units to their own units, at first I was very disappointed - I think the original Tivo DirecTV I had nearly 10 years ago was one of the best designed, easiest to use electroncis products I've ever used. However, I gradually realized that the DirecTV DVRs were pretty similar, had a feature or two of their own that was valuable, and generally enjoyed using them. In contrast, after becoming fully familiar with my Dish 722, I hate it because it is simply less easy to use, less functional than what it replaced, and it inconveniences me nearly every time I pick up its remote. I deeply regret not having used it enough during my trial period to understand its limitations and issues, otherwise, I certainly would have cancelled and gone back to DirecTV.

But my purpose in posting here wasn't to boast about DirecTV and crap on Dish, it was to find out if the new Dish DVR cured problems and added features that would make me want to have one in my home. The several of you who have posted constructive helpful posts here have answered that question: the Hopper isn't what I'm looking for and I'm going back to DirecTV.

So if I have mortally offended anyone, made them feel that I have disparaged the virtue of any family members as well as their Dish equipment, I apoloigze and want to reassure you that I did not come here to be confrontational. I came here because I sought genuine advice about Dish's new Hopper DVR that I felt I could best obtain from someone who has used that recorder before, such as a member of this forum.

However, I will say that out of several dozen websites I have joined over the years, only one of them has given me an initial welcome that was anything close to the unfriendly and unreasonable one I received here, and on that site, for no reason I could discern, a clique of extremely petty women, who treated the website as if they owned it, very bizarrely accused me of being some former cyberspace enemy of theirs who returned to the site with a new log-in name. I understood that this website was a place where home theater enthusiasts could help people out by sharing and exchanging helpful information about their satellite television equipment. I didn't know that having my own own opinions and being able to articulate specific justifications for those opinions would so unacceptable here.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

I don't know why you are not accepting other ppl's point of view to your posting here and there, but these your posts/threads clearly demonstrated your agenda:
- you already made your mind: you'll switch to DTV
- you do try to procure it by publicly bashing dish DVR
- you are 'poisoned' by TiVo DVR look&feel
- you don't want to adapt to different DVRs

Any student of psychology will tell you: stop dumping your frustration to ppl, switch to DTV and order THR22-100. Be happy with it for rest of your life.


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## RasputinAXP (Jan 23, 2008)

Wisguy said:


> *I did not come here to be confrontational. * I came here because I sought genuine advice about Dish's new Hopper DVR that I felt I could best obtain from someone who has used that recorder before, such as a member of this forum.





Wisguy said:


> I've had the 722 for almost two years *and to be blunt, it is a very poorly engineered, outright POS of a product, probably the worst designed and implemented consumer electronics product I've ever used. *Unquestionably, I would switch back to DirecTV, even though I haven't had the 5-8x/year billing problems with Dish that I had with DirecTV, if my only option was to continue with the 722, but I'm wondering if Dish's new Hopper DVR has cured its predecessor's problems.


Dissonance.


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

> Originally Posted by Wisguy
> 2) Cannot record an entire program unless programmed to do so from the start. Say you start watching a movie and realize that you want to record the entire movie. It will not let you record it all, only from the point that you hit the record button, even if you are able to rewind to the beginning.


On the other hand you can use the OTA module to record OTA + two satellite channels unlike the dual tuner DirecTV DVR. I suspect this is the reason for the difference in the way they operate for this.



> Originally Posted by Wisguy
> 4) Cannot control live programming while in Guide or List Recorded Programming mode. Live TV plays in a window in the top right corner of the screen during these two modes, but you cannot control it at all without exiting the Guide or List Recorded. With my DirecTV DVR, if I wanted to pause the program (say a violent story came on the news when my young daughter wandered into the room or I get a phone call), the Pause, Stop, FF, RW buttons still worked even the though the programming was in the small window, but with the 722 in Guide or List mode, you have to cancel out of the mode altogether to control the underlying program.


There are complaints on the DirecTV side about the removal of those features, So once you go there they won't have it either. You might want to check into that.



> Originally Posted by Wisguy
> 5) No screen saver (in essence). The 722's screen saver does not kick in until at least 4-5 hours has passed, which is a major problem since I have it connected to a plasma TV and by the time the 722 decides to throw up a screen saver, whatever has been paused has burned an image into my plasma screen.


You are saying that you leave the TV set on with all the wear an tear not to mention the extra electricity that is being wasted for hours at a time with no one watching?



> Originally Posted by Wisguy
> 8) Pressing the RW or FF Skip buttons (i.e. 30sec. commercial skip) repeatedly will sometimes skip to the very beginning or the very end of the programming, instead of maybe 5 or 6 30-second skips ahead.


I have seen that always on SD never on HD. Not sure why.

*****************************************

That feature you like where you fast forward and when you hit play it backs up? That was the first feature I junked with my Tivo. I set it to use the 30 second skip forward and the reverse skip instead. I also got rid of the Tivo noises and the suggestions.


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## Wisguy (Aug 20, 2012)

P Smith said:


> I don't know why you are not accepting other ppl's point of view to your posting here and there, but these your posts/threads clearly demonstrated your agenda:
> - you already made your mind: you'll switch to DTV
> - you do try to procure it by publicly bashing dish DVR
> - you are 'poisoned' by TiVo DVR look&feel
> ...


1) My agenda was to get more information about the Hopper and see if it cured the problems I found unacceptable with the 722.

2) I made up my mind, before posting here, that I would not continue to use a 722 or get another Dish DVR if it had the same functional limitations as the 722. Since I did not know anything about the Hopper's functioning, how could you say I had already decided to switch to DirecTV? Like I said, if the Hopper addressed most of my issues I had with the 722, it would have been altogether easier simply to replace receivers than replace satellite providers and I would have stayed with Dish. But no, P Smith and several others here seem to have an agenda in which they twist and distort what I have clearly said and seem to have become far more sensitive about their Dish equipment than a normal person would be about any inanimate object.

3) If I had said "I hate the 722" and not provided any reason, I would just be a troll making conclusory slams and attacks against the device. But since I actually articulated many very solid reasons why I don't like it, in order to provide sufficient details about information I wanted to obtain about the Hopper's functioning for comparison, that somehow also equates to "bashing." I guess if one doesn't mindlessly say "I LOVE MY DISH RECEIVERS MORE THAN MY WIFE JUST LIKE ALL OF YOU OTHER ULTRA COOL DISH FANBOIS," then one has nothing worthwhile to say in this forum.

4) Ah, I see. My problem isn't that I have reasonable expectations of how things should work to promote maximum ease of use and functionality, it's just that I'm a narrow-minded person who is too lazy to bother to adapt. You there good sir, complaining about your Dodge Neon's lack of power, precision, handling, comfort, style, or reliability - you're a highly unreasonable person and a whiner. The problem isn't that your Dodge Neon is an inferior vehicle, it is that you are an inferior car owner because you have failed to adapt to your car's particulars. And I've got at least four other Neon owners that will tell you the same thing so you must be wrong.

5) The good old "If you can't come up with a better, more intelligent response, then suggest that the person is deranged or has a psychological impairment and needs mental health care" argument. Always a last resort of the small person.

Well, I got the information I wanted so thanks to the several people who did post helpful responses.


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## sregener (Apr 17, 2012)

1) It's called "slip back" and is a patented TiVo feature. DirecTV has an agreement with TiVo for this feature. Dish does not. But seriously, who skips commercials with Rewind and Fast Forward? 30-second skip is so much faster and accurate.

2) The Hopper can record from the moment you started watching, provided you rewind to that point before selecting Record.

3) Another TiVo patent issue.

4) Never tried this, but probably the same in the Hopper.

5) No screen saver for the Hopper, either. At first, it bugged me a little, but now I don't leave my plasma on while paused for very long.

6) Hmmm.. So what you want is for the receiver to pop up a message saying, "hey, you haven't done anything for a couple hours. You still there?" but do nothing? If it didn't turn off, maybe people would complain about that.

7) I've missed 0 recordings with the Hopper.

8) I had that happen with my DTVPal DVR, but never the Hopper. I think that has been fixed in firmware.

9) I have no trouble using my remote using only the light from my TV.

I think we have a case of different priorities for different people. I like a fast, responsive DVR that lets me watch TV on my schedule, and skip commercials quickly and easily. The Hopper doesn't do everything the HR24 does, but neither does the HR24 do neat tricks like PTAT, PiP, or record three programs at once. And you're rolling the dice with DirecTV, because you cannot specify a model number when you order a box from them. They act as though all their DVRs are exactly the same and you get "what's on the truck.". So if you get my old HR22-100, I feel very sorry for you. If you get a snappy HR24, good for you, and you'll likely be a happy camper.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

_Second moderator friendly intervention... please stop attacking the posters, attack the topic. If you disagree with the poster, state so in a reasonable manner without insults. Further transgressions will meet with additional action._


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## speedy4022 (Jan 26, 2004)

I don't think it has been mentioned but as to number 6 the dtv dvr does this as well. The difference between it and dish is you can shut it off on the dtv dvr but the default is turned on.


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## PghGuy (Oct 13, 2006)

Wisguy said:


> 1) My agenda was to get more information about the Hopper and see if it cured the problems I found unacceptable with the 722.
> 
> 4) Ah, I see. My problem isn't that I have reasonable expectations of how things should work to promote maximum ease of use and functionality, it's just that I'm a narrow-minded person who is too lazy to bother to adapt. You there good sir, complaining about your Dodge Neon's lack of power, precision, handling, comfort, style, or reliability - you're a highly unreasonable person and a whiner. The problem isn't that your Dodge Neon is an inferior vehicle, it is that you are an inferior car owner because you have failed to adapt to your car's particulars. And I've got at least four other Neon owners that will tell you the same thing so you must be wrong.


Your dodge neon quote is a perfect analogy. A dodge neon owner who complains about the lack of power, handling, comfort or style is clearly an owner who did not put the time in to research these items before they purchased the car in the first place. This type of owner might not be too lazy to adapt but they are clearly too lazy to do their own research before purchasing. For whatever reason you did not research these items (and the "at least half dozen more" you say you did not include) before going with Dish and the 722. For that you have nobody else to blame, but instead of learning from your mistake, you come in here posting a very negative first paragraph to people who probably do not have the same opinion of the 722 as you do and then you expect them to jump out of their seat to give you the answers that you do not want to get on your own. You tell PatMurphey that you genuinely want to research the hopper so why not read the manual online, why not go to a physical store that sells dish and try it out first hand or read the many reviews already done on it. If you would spend just half the time you spent replying to others in here I bet you would have your answers by now.

Again your neon example is perfect. This is like a neon owner who thinks his car is poorly engineered, an outright POS of a car and probably the worst designed car he ever owned but instead of him going out and "genuinely researching" those features on his next car, all he wants to do is complain and have other people get this information for him.


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## mdavej (Jan 31, 2007)

There are a lot of DirecTV features I wish Dish had, including many Wiseguy posted plus several others like bookmarks, more cast/crew info, quicktune, sticky fav lists, etc. I knew all of this before hand, but frankly didn't care very much. My ideal DVR would combine features of both Dish and DirecTV. To answer your original question, most of those shortcomings you mentioned still exist in the Hopper. In spite of that, I liked my Hopper far more than my 722 and consider it the best DVR overall I've ever had from any provider.

Also consider that your DirecTV DVR of old no longer exists. Current ones on the current software are very sluggish. So pressing play to interrupt skip would only kick in 5-10 seconds after you pressed it, rendering that functionality useless.

For me, however, content trumps equipment. So I can live with a few annoyances as long as I get the content I want.

(I've had both Dish and DirecTV in the recent past, but I currently subscribe to neither service nor do I intend to in the near future).


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## bgottschalk (Aug 30, 2007)

mdavej said:


> There are a lot of DirecTV features I wish Dish had, including many Wiseguy posted plus several others like bookmarks, more cast/crew info, quicktune, sticky fav lists, etc. I knew all of this before hand, but frankly didn't care very much. My ideal DVR would combine features of both Dish and DirecTV. To answer your original question, most of those shortcomings you mentioned still exist in the Hopper. In spite of that, I liked my Hopper far more than my 722 and consider it the best DVR overall I've ever had from any provider.
> 
> Also consider that your DirecTV DVR of old no longer exists. Current ones on the current software are very sluggish. So pressing play to interrupt skip would only kick in 5-10 seconds after you pressed it, rendering that functionality useless.
> 
> ...


I've been hearing all the "Hopper" commercials on lately and was kind of interested. As a current DTV customer, I do think the prime time recording, commercial skip (lawsuits coming  ) and controlling recording from all receivers features are cool. However, after some research I found the 3 tuners just wouldn't cut it for me coming from 3 DVR's with 6 tuners. That was my deal-breaker.

I have to say after reading the complaints, I am even more happy with my decision. I would be very disappointed with the items listed by the OP. Just my 2 cents.

Oh - and my HR24's and HR20 are not sluggish in the least. 5 to 10 seconds to respond to a keypress - if that is not an extreme exageration, then you had something seriously wrong with your DVR. While I find that the skip back is almost perfect to the point where I want, I have to admit I only use fast forward while zooming through a large timeframe. For commercials, I just use the 30 second skip.


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## strikes2k (Dec 10, 2008)

bgottschalk said:


> I've been hearing all the "Hopper" commercials on lately and was kind of interested. As a current DTV customer, I do think the prime time recording, commercial skip (lawsuits coming  ) and controlling recording from all receivers features are cool. However, after some research I found the 3 tuners just wouldn't cut it for me coming from 3 DVR's with 6 tuners. That was my deal-breaker.
> 
> I have to say after reading the complaints, I am even more happy with my decision. I would be very disappointed with the items listed by the OP. Just my 2 cents.
> 
> Oh - and my HR24's and HR20 are not sluggish in the least. 5 to 10 seconds to respond to a keypress - if that is not an extreme exageration, then you had something seriously wrong with your DVR. While I find that the skip back is almost perfect to the point where I want, I have to admit I only use fast forward while zooming through a large timeframe. For commercials, I just use the 30 second skip.


If you get two hoppers you have 6 tuners. With PTAT that could be significantly more if you watch a decent amount of network TV.


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## bgottschalk (Aug 30, 2007)

strikes2k said:


> If you get two hoppers you have 6 tuners. With PTAT that could be significantly more if you watch a decent amount of network TV.


But they aren't linked together yet are they?

Once they are linked, I think that will be a very cool option. I assume you could turn PTAT off on one of them so you didn't double up on prime time?

Once they start offering a two hopper system for free to new subs that will be even cooler . I have a lot of money sunk into my 3 DTV DVR's to just send them back and buy more equipment. Not implying that having to pay for one hopper isn't a good deal - still cheaper than the 3 I bought - but it does make switching back and forth expensive if you aren't a basic sub.


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## puckwithahalo (Sep 3, 2007)

bgottschalk said:


> But they aren't linked together yet are they?
> 
> Once they are linked, I think that will be a very cool option. I assume you could turn PTAT off on one of them so you didn't double up on prime time?
> 
> Once they start offering a two hopper system for free to new subs that will be even cooler . I have a lot of money sunk into my 3 DTV DVR's to just send them back and buy more equipment. Not implying that having to pay for one hopper isn't a good deal - still cheaper than the 3 I bought - but it does make switching back and forth expensive if you aren't a basic sub.


They are linked together in that you can see the recordings from both Hoppers from any room with a Hopper or Joey. They do not share tuners though.


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## RasputinAXP (Jan 23, 2008)

They talk to each other already, you turn off PTAT on one and you're golden. Seriously, I don't even know what I'm going to do with those other 3 tuners right now.


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## puckwithahalo (Sep 3, 2007)

RasputinAXP said:


> They talk to each other already, you turn off PTAT on one and you're golden. Seriously, I don't even know what I'm going to do with those other 3 tuners right now.


We just set all of our recordings on the hopper with the least used Joeys connected to it. Then we never have to worry about whether or not something is recording on the Hopper our "high traffic" tv's are connected to


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## gschield (Aug 28, 2012)

I am am just about ready to dump my 722, freezes when I rewind and then jumps to live TV.


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## gschield (Aug 28, 2012)

So are you saying that you can watch any show recorded on either hopper on the Joey or the other hopper?


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## jestwaitn (Aug 16, 2012)

Wisguy said:


> I've had the 722 for almost two years and to be blunt, it is a very poorly engineered, outright POS of a product, probably the worst designed and implemented consumer electronics product I've ever used. Unquestionably, I would switch back to DirecTV, even though I haven't had the 5-8x/year billing problems with Dish that I had with DirecTV, if my only option was to continue with the 722, but I'm wondering if Dish's new Hopper DVR has cured its predecessor's problems.
> 
> Any input on these issues would be appreciated. Thanks


i started out with the old echostar receiver that would control a vcr (sometimes). got it for shipping cost of $30 + dish alignment & it included free programming for 90 days! used this system for over 3 years, so upgrading to the 502 was a huge leap in technology for me!

i have used the 722 for over a year now and find that it is anything but a POS. it is far better than the 502 i used for nearly 9 years. the sound is far superior. it records 2 programs and i can watch a recorded program while it does this.

i'm smart enough to skip beyond a commercial into the program itself and back it up. so i don't find this demeaning at all.

i didn't go with directv due to the high cost of their programming. i'm smart enough to determine this without making the mistake.

the 722 has been very reliable for me, so i don't find that it has any discernable problems. i don't plan to go hopper.

this is my input. have a good day.


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## RasputinAXP (Jan 23, 2008)

gschield said:


> So are you saying that you can watch any show recorded on either hopper on the Joey or the other hopper?


Yup.


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## Arya Stark (Mar 17, 2012)

Wisguy,

I can confirm that DTV DVR's don't let you FF, REW, Pause, anymore when the picture is on the guide/list. 

I don't know when they took that feature out, but I think it was when they updated the GUI.

I just switched to the Hopper from DTV, so this is current information!


There are several MAJOR things I prefer about DTV...the bookmarks, skip forward to the marks, the recording issue you talked about, the small screen control issue (but now DTV doesn't have that either) and other little things, but overall I am very happy with the Hopper. AND, I feel like Dish could potentially fix the things that annoy me. I don't get the feeling that DTV will ever fix their sluggish DVRs. 

That was pretty unbiased, non-fanboy (for either side) info, in my opinion.


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