# Fact or Fiction: The HR20-700 has been discontinued



## Incog-Neato (Apr 21, 2006)

Or production has ended or stopped?

This came from someone who normally orders them by the dozens from a distributor. 

Sounds fishy to me.

Can anyone confirm or deny "officially"?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

"Officially" ?

No, none of us can... well okay, maybe there is one or two users here, that "can"... but they won't out themselves.

The HR20 has not been discontinued.

Shortages have started to occur again... but the HR20 has not been discontinued.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

While we're on the subject, what's the latest on the HR20-700B or whatever the black one is going to be designated?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

lamontcranston said:


> While we're on the subject, what's the latest on the HR20-700B or whatever the black one is going to be designated?


see post 12:
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=79983


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Earl Bonovich said:


> "Officially" ?
> 
> No, none of us can... well okay, maybe there is one or two users here, that "can"... but they won't out themselves.
> 
> ...


In other words people are ordering them like hotcakes once again. Get yours now before the new HD channels appear, then it will be crazy!


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## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

As soon as closed captioning is fixed, I'm getting at least one, maybe two more.


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

mine is already on order


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## DishDog (Nov 10, 2006)

So are we saying that the box that everyone "hates to love" is really selling like crazy?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

DishDog said:


> So are we saying that the box that everyone "hates to love" is really selling like crazy?


Yes, and has been since it was released.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

DishDog said:


> So are we saying that the box that everyone "hates to love" is really selling like crazy?


I know you are referencing the PCMag article but for the record I do not hate to love the HR20. There has been friction but at this point I'm as happy with this receiver as I've been with any dedicated piece of consumer electronics. I show it off to people and talk it up whenever I can. However, as much enjoyment as I get from the DVR...I love my wife, I love my country, but I don't and can't imagine loving a piece of consumer electronics. Neither can I imagine hating it. If I were that dissatisfied I'd ask for my money back or just walk.


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## Incog-Neato (Apr 21, 2006)

Well, you guys are going to be in for a very big surprise. The HR20-700 is no longer in production and in almost non-existant supply from DTV. New equipment will be 2-3 months away. They have not disclosed any information other then the fact it is NOT from TiVo and will NOT be an HR20-700. 

Believe me or not ..... Earle, check it out with your sources.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

And then there was the comment from a Retention CSR about a Sony HD DVR with a DVD burner, due out about June.
I heard it, but without anything else , is rated [like so much from a CSR] as "rumor".


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## jimb726 (Jan 9, 2007)

MisterEd said:


> Well, you guys are going to be in for a very big surprise. The HR20-700 is no longer in production and in almost non-existant supply from DTV. New equipment will be 2-3 months away. They have not disclosed any information other then the fact it is NOT from TiVo and will NOT be an HR20-700.
> 
> Believe me or not ..... Earle, check it out with your sources.


Name your source, the only possible thing that could even remotely be going on would be a switch of manufacturers, possibly because PACE allegedly has been at the root of what some people call manufacturing problems. Beyond that, there is no way in the world that D* is abandoning the HR20 this close to having the basic stability they have been slammed for missing the past 8 months. No way in hell. Sorry but unless you are prepared to give a credible source beyond some person who buys them from a distributor, I would have a hard time finding the information valid. Sorry.


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## jimb726 (Jan 9, 2007)

Another possibility is maybe production on the Silver one is done and they are finally switching to the more "desireable" black model, although I would hope they would make both and offer a choice. We will see. By the way VOS, damn you and your lightning quick post, beat me by that much!!


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## tfederov (Nov 18, 2005)

I've got two more arriving at my house on March 27 to give me a total of three HR20s. I jumped in and I'm lovin' every minute of it!!


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

Maybe the HR20-700 (or more specifically even, the HR20-700S) will go out of production. But that does not mean the HR20 will. You may see the HR20-100, or the HR20-700B, etc. A distributor would order a very specific item (e.g., HR20-700S), and may get a not available response. But that does not mean the basic HR20 is being discontinued from production.

I would fully expect the HR20 to remain as the flagship DVR for some time.

Carl


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

No, of course D* will be canning the complete line of HR-20. That's why they're beating their heads against the wall to get the software right.


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## jimb726 (Jan 9, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> No, of course D* will be canning the complete line of HR-20. That's why they're beating their heads against the wall to get the software right.


D'oh, I meant to say that too!!!


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

It would be pretty funny if the OP was right that the HR20-700 has been discontinued, but it was based on an ordering misunderstanding. 

As already suggested, maybe the HR20-700 model can no longer be ordered because it is being replaced by two models with different case colors: HR20-700S or HR20-700B. 

So the OP could be technically right, but that doesn't mean the line of DVRs has been discontinued - it just means the ordering department needs an additional letter after the final zero!


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

drew2k said:


> It would be pretty funny if the OP was right that the HR20-700 has been discontinued, but it was based on an ordering misunderstanding.
> As already suggested, maybe the HR20-700 model can no longer be ordered because it is being replaced by two models with different case colors: HR20-700S or HR20-700B.
> So the OP could be technically right, but that doesn't mean the line of DVRs has been discontinued - it just means the ordering department needs an additional letter after the final zero!


Yes I think this really is it. The response from a "posted" black HR-20, has cause the production line to gear up to build the HR-20-700B, black with green lights. Until this runs is complete, the HR-20-700S will be on back order.


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

yep could be just another case or D*'s internal lack of comunication


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## Incog-Neato (Apr 21, 2006)

It would be funny. Unfortunately that isn't the issue. This has been confirmed by 2 sources at DirecTV, No I will not name them. No, you do not have to believe me. The current units are in almost non-existant supply (from DirecTV or distributors) and a new unit is "some months" away. No other information has been revealed to me (other then it is not a TiVo replacing it). Call DirecTV on the phone and ask when you will get one if you were to order it from them.

I am sure Earl will eventually check into and confirm this.



drew2k said:


> It would be pretty funny if the OP was right that the HR20-700 has been discontinued, but it was based on an ordering misunderstanding.
> 
> As already suggested, maybe the HR20-700 model can no longer be ordered because it is being replaced by two models with different case colors: HR20-700S or HR20-700B.
> 
> So the OP could be technically right, but that doesn't mean the line of DVRs has been discontinued - it just means the ordering department needs an additional letter after the final zero!


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## BobV (Dec 15, 2006)

MisterEd said:


> Well, you guys are going to be in for a very big surprise. The HR20-700 is no longer in production and in almost non-existant supply from DTV. New equipment will be 2-3 months away. They have not disclosed any information other then the fact it is NOT from TiVo and will NOT be an HR20-700.
> 
> Believe me or not ..... Earle, check it out with your sources.


Can you say "SONY":grin:


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## Chazb (Jan 29, 2007)

MisterEd said:


> It would be funny. Unfortunately that isn't the issue. This has been confirmed by 2 sources at DirecTV, No I will not name them. No, you do not have to believe me. The current units are in almost non-existant supply (from DirecTV or distributors) and a new unit is "some months" away. No other information has been revealed to me (other then it is not a TiVo replacing it). Call DirecTV on the phone and ask when you will get one if you were to order it from them.
> 
> I am sure Earl will eventually check into and confirm this.


So you are saying that people that want to go to direct tv and want to use the hr20 are in limbo because they are "almost non-existant supply"well that would kill direct tv for any new customers and hd.I am not saying you are wrong but that would be the biggest blunder direct tv could ever do waiting for months for a new unit to come out.I can see cable and E* using this bit of info in there ads it does not add up at all.


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## BobV (Dec 15, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> Yes I think this really is it. The response from a "posted" black HR-20, has cause the production line to gear up to build the HR-20-700B, black with green lights. Until this runs is complete, the HR-20-700S will be on back order.


http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=79983&page=2
See post 32 I was joking about the leds...:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## BobV (Dec 15, 2006)

Far as a shortage..hmmmm..
Example; I can call right now and tell them my HR20 is broken and they will FedX it to me by Friday at the latest. :angel:
OH! YAH! and it will cost me nada 0.


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## nick_r (Jan 24, 2007)

> No, of course D* will be canning the complete line of HR-20. That's why they're beating their heads against the wall to get the software right.


Not that I believe the rumor in the slightest, but the fact that they're still working on getting the HR20 right doesn't necessarily prove that it's sticking around.

If they _were_ going to abandon the current box, the #1 priority would have to be ensuring that the units in our houses continue to work long-term without problems, because abandoning the box _and_ the software updates would result in a customer revolt the likes of which they've never seen.

Then again, by that logic, if they really think they can successfully debug the HR20 code, they might as well stick with it.

Unless they _don't_ really think they can ever get the software 100% right and are therefore giving up on the box but are still maintaining a core group of programmers dedicated to ironing out the kinks as best they can so the existing HR20 owners (renters) don't complain.

Oy, this is complicated. I'd really like someone to go ahead and debunk the rumor so I can stop thinking about it.


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## jheda (Sep 19, 2006)

i cant imagine as a consumer purchasing a "new " product, the flagship product, of the company, is discontinued 9 mos. later. D would be shipping out a lot of FREE replacements.......


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## dhaakenson (Jan 14, 2007)

Hah. As I've stated before in recent weeks, one could envision a future with an HR25, a device that actually recorded and played back television. Preferably with all of the dialogue intact.

Please let it be true. I'm definitely not married to TiVo, the HR20, nor DirecTv for that matter. I merely want a device that performs like a flagship product should when I plug it in.

This is either a hoax, or really good news. If they are dumping the HR20, I'd say that it's definitely a victory for the "vocal minority" (ie, those who want an HR20 that works). :yesman:


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## slaz55 (Sep 22, 2006)

So..... if there is a new unit on the horizon should we be entitled to an upgrade. This doesn't make much business sense having to support this unit and then a new product that will have the same function.


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## bnglbill (Nov 29, 2006)

BobV said:


> Far as a shortage..hmmmm..
> Example; I can call right now and tell them my HR20 is broken and they will FedX it to me by Friday at the latest. :angel:
> OH! YAH! and it will cost me nada 0.


I don't want to take one side or another here but I would have to think that would be a refurb.


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

BobV said:


> Can you say "SONY":grin:


hope not.. sony has their own problems.. (financial)


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## HolmesCo (Dec 4, 2006)

houskamp said:


> mine is already on order


houskamp, do you mind sharing if they gave you a deal on the 2nd one? I will be getting a 2nd in due time, sort of curious if we can get them cheaper I paid the full $300 for my first one. ??


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## ItsMeJTO (Dec 22, 2006)

If the hr20-700 IS disscontinued, D* had better make sure it's replacement has the same bugs as it does now, or we will all be calling for a free new box.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Okay here is the deal, and yes... I have talked to my contacts.

The HR20-700 is not discontinued. 
And the current rate of requests for the HR20 is exceeding the production levels. So they are already starting to "account" for another possible shortage, and take steps now to ensure it is not as sever as the last one.

And similar to the R15, yes... they are looking at additional manufacturers for the unit to keep up with demand.

And yes... there is going to be a black HR20.

But again, to the OP's questio
It is FICTION that the HR20-700 has been discontinued.


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

Thanks for settleing that.. Would hate to think our fun was going to end. :lol:


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## klramp (Dec 2, 2006)

Damn Earl, this thread could have gone on at least four or five more pages!!


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

After pissing on PACE for a long time, a member in England, posted that the HR-20 is built by Selectron in Mexico.
So what I wonder is: D* went to PACE for the R&D & did they "buy it outright" so Selectron [and others] can manufacture it?
If so does this mean that if another manufacture starts building the HR-20, it will be the same [hardware/software]? If so then wouldn't it also be a "-700"?
May not mean anything except the "poor build quality" isn't PACE's fault, but belongs to Selectron.


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## ouijal (Aug 22, 2006)

It should say something that the rumor was actually believable.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

klramp said:


> Damn Earl, this thread could have gone on at least four or five more pages!!


This shouldn't stop us.....we can keep kicking something for a long time here...


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## brittonx (Dec 26, 2006)

MisterEd said:


> It would be funny. Unfortunately that isn't the issue. This has been confirmed by 2 sources at DirecTV, No I will not name them. No, you do not have to believe me. The current units are in almost non-existant supply (from DirecTV or distributors) and a new unit is "some months" away. No other information has been revealed to me (other then it is not a TiVo replacing it). Call DirecTV on the phone and ask when you will get one if you were to order it from them.
> 
> I am sure Earl will eventually check into and confirm this.


Funny, I was at BestBuy in rochester, NY a couple of days ago and they had a stack of 15 HR20s


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## BobV (Dec 15, 2006)

I am not sure of this , but i believe Thomson is the new manufature of the HR20.


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## BobV (Dec 15, 2006)

bnglbill said:


> I don't want to take one side or another here but I would have to think that would be a refurb.


The last one that I received in Jan. 07 was new with allthe cables including the HDMI 
cable. DTV has a warehouse in Tennessee they ship from.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

BobV said:


> I am not sure of this , but i believe Thomson is the new manufature of the HR20.


They make the H20-100
Their "dash number" is 100
LG is 600
PACE is 700
FWIW


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## Incog-Neato (Apr 21, 2006)

All I'm saying is they are no longer producing an HR20-700 in any shape, form or color. This was confirmed with both a conference call with DirecTV as well as from our DirecTV rep. We are a major DirecTV supplier to a specific market and were told this twice today alone. If both sources are wrong then so be it, but they haven't been wrong yet. They weren't able to confirm what or when the replacement would be available.

Seriously now, with all the problems they have been having with this box something had to give. Maybe they will come out with an HR20-701 or HR20-70.5 but what we were told is the box that they now supply and sell has been stopped and it will be "months" (they wouldn't commit, just said monthS) till the next device will be available. We were told we wouldn't have access to any HD-DVR for "quite a while" and that DirecTV won't be taking any more orders for the existing box. Once the supply dries up that is it. Like I said, call DTV and ask them when you can get an HD-DVR from them.



Chazb said:


> So you are saying that people that want to go to direct tv and want to use the hr20 are in limbo because they are "almost non-existant supply"well that would kill direct tv for any new customers and hd.I am not saying you are wrong but that would be the biggest blunder direct tv could ever do waiting for months for a new unit to come out.I can see cable and E* using this bit of info in there ads it does not add up at all.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

MisterEd said:


> Maybe they will come out with an HR20-701 or HR20-70.5 but what we were told is the box that they now supply and sell has been stopped


If you are not BSing, then you misunderstood something since the dash number is the manufacturer number. There is no 701 or 70.5. If they change the box, the HR number would change or they would add a suffix (like "b" for black).


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## Incog-Neato (Apr 21, 2006)

OK Earl, you are correct. Please close the thread.


Earl Bonovich said:


> Okay here is the deal, and yes... I have talked to my contacts.
> 
> The HR20-700 is not discontinued.
> And the current rate of requests for the HR20 is exceeding the production levels. So they are already starting to "account" for another possible shortage, and take steps now to ensure it is not as sever as the last one.
> ...


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## Rambler (Nov 9, 2006)

MisterEd said:


> All I'm saying is they are no longer producing an HR20-700 in any shape, form or color.


Well, that's obviously wrong.



> This was confirmed with both a conference call with DirecTV as well as from our DirecTV rep. We are a major DirecTV supplier to a specific market and were told this twice today alone.


As to what Earl had stated above, this likely means D* may be telling suppliers what you were told, to attempt to relieve the HR20 demand until production has built up and supply has met most of the demand.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

MisterEd said:


> OK Earl, you are correct. Please close the thread.


?????


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## Incog-Neato (Apr 21, 2006)

I'm not BS'ing only relaying information given to us in our weekly DirecTV conference call. If DirecTV gave us the wrong information then I guess we'll be losing hundreds of thousands of dollars in sales & service due to their lies. I guess we'll just have to sue them. 


tonyd79 said:


> If you are not BSing, then you misunderstood something since the dash number is the manufacturer number. There is no 701 or 70.5. If they change the box, the HR number would change or they would add a suffix (like "b" for black).


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

MisterEd said:


> Maybe they will come out with an HR20-701 or HR20-70.5


You don't gett the nomenclature of the model #'2 do you?:eek2:


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

MisterEd said:


> All I'm saying is they are no longer producing an HR20-700 in any shape, form or color. This was confirmed with both a conference call with DirecTV as well as from our DirecTV rep. We are a major DirecTV supplier to a specific market and were told this twice today alone. If both sources are wrong then so be it, but they haven't been wrong yet. They weren't able to confirm what or when the replacement would be available.
> 
> Seriously now, with all the problems they have been having with this box something had to give. Maybe they will come out with an HR20-701 or HR20-70.5 but what we were told is the box that they now supply and sell has been stopped and it will be "months" (they wouldn't commit, just said monthS) till the next device will be available. We were told we wouldn't have access to any HD-DVR for "quite a while" and that DirecTV won't be taking any more orders for the existing box. Once the supply dries up that is it. Like I said, call DTV and ask them when you can get an HD-DVR from them.


I took up your challenge. I just called D* and asked. There are NO PLANS TO STOP MAKING THE HR-20. I can have one in two weeks.
If your supplier can't order them, there may be a problem with the supplier and their relationship with D*.
BTW: the numbers for manufactures are: -700 for PACE, -100 for Thompson, -600 for LG. So you can see there wouldn't be a -70.5.
So you need to go back to "your source" & have them do the checks we've done here.


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

Wow ... there's an awful lot of smeeking in this thread!


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

There is a difference betwen stopping the HR20 "series"
And just stopping sub-model

I don't think MisterEd just decided to "make this up"... not in the least.

It is possible that there was some brakedown in communication... maybe by the way it was presented... or the person presenting it, didn't have all the facts straight.

Just like you guys tell people not to jump on me when I am in the messenger role.... let's not all condem MisterEd... or his buddy Wilber, for the information he was given... and he was coming here to share.

That is what we do here.
Share what we know... and clarrify what we know...


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

I like his friend Wilbur. :lol: 
I just did what he asked & called D*.
Maybe this will help Mr.ED.


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## SDizzle (Jan 1, 2007)

Maybe Mr. Ed is right.....we will have an HR20-765.17 that is purple with pink lights A hit with the ladies:lol: I believe the HR20 platform will be around for a LONG time........maybe -100, -200, -300, -400...etc. HD is only gaining popularity, and D* is creating a lot of buzz about HD as it pertains to channels. So, maybe we will see 5 manufacturers of the HR20 to help D* stock pile a mound of these bad boys, and stock up local BB and CC stores as well. You still cannot find one at CC or BB stores anywhere in Sac, sales guys are telling me they have numerous requests daily for them. More $$ put out by D* for the HD channels, means they want more new subs to help with that cost, right? Why advertise 100 HD channels, and HD locals all over the place, and then have to tell potential subs "we don't know when you can get an HD DVR"? I think a large portion of subs that love HD quality, also LOVE DVRs with a passion


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Stop by at my garage and your HR20 will have pink LEDs in 30 min.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

P Smith said:


> Stop by at my garage and your HR20 will have pink LEDs in 30 min.


Sorry, but if my HR20 wanted pinkie LEDs it would stop at the beauty salon


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Oh sorry, forgot to mention - half of my garage leased to Beauty Salon .


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## BobV (Dec 15, 2006)

I do not know who is right or wrong, But I think that Dtv has a new HD-DVR 
being r&d'ed now. Its just a matter when we will hear about it.
The HR20-700 is about 2 1/2 years old now. The HR20 was released a year late.
To think that the HR20 is the only model for the future is crazy.
Don't get me wrong, I like my HR20, in fact better then the Tivo HR10.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

SDizzle said:


> Maybe Mr. Ed is right.....we will have an HR20-765.17 that is purple with pink lights A hit with the ladies:lol: I believe the HR20 platform will be around for a LONG time........maybe -100, -200, -300, -400...etc. HD is only gaining popularity, and D* is creating a lot of buzz about HD as it pertains to channels. So, maybe we will see 5 manufacturers of the HR20 to help D* stock pile a mound of these bad boys, and stock up local BB and CC stores as well. You still cannot find one at CC or BB stores anywhere in Sac, sales guys are telling me they have numerous requests daily for them. More $$ put out by D* for the HD channels, means they want more new subs to help with that cost, right? Why advertise 100 HD channels, and HD locals all over the place, and then have to tell potential subs "we don't know when you can get an HD DVR"? I think a large portion of subs that love HD quality, also LOVE DVRs with a passion


Call D*, you can have one in two weeks [as of tonight] in our area. I did call.


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## Chilli_Dog (Dec 26, 2005)

I finally took the plunge and ordered an HR20 this evening (my HD Tivo is giving me the evil eye right now...) Anyway, when the CSR finalized the order, she acted like she was surprised about something and then came back and said I would have to wait until March 30th before I could get it. She also indicated that was the first big delay she'd seen. Prior to my call, she'd been able to schedule installs within a week or two of the order. 

Figures I'd be one of the first to be affected by the "shortage"...


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## BobV (Dec 15, 2006)

Chilli_Dog said:


> I finally took the plunge and ordered an HR20 this evening (my HD Tivo is giving me the evil eye right now...) Anyway, when the CSR finalized the order, she acted like she was surprised about something and then came back and said I would have to wait until March 30th before I could get it. She also indicated that was the first big delay she'd seen. Prior to my call, she'd been able to schedule installs within a week or two of the order.
> 
> Figures I'd be one of the first to be affected by the "shortage"...


Your talking about to differant things here..
Installing has nothing to do wth the HR20 so called shortage.
Your installer must be booked up untill the 30th.


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## danco (Jan 20, 2007)

BobV said:


> I do not know who is right or wrong, But I think that Dtv has a new HD-DVR being r&d'ed now. Its just a matter when we will hear about it.


Perhaps the 4-tuner Home Media Center?

(Hope it doesn't have only one live buffer...)

~Dan


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## dhaakenson (Jan 14, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> Call D*, you can have one in two weeks [as of tonight] in our area. I did call.


Yeah, but is it a refurb? I can get those all day long.


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## Hutchinshouse (Sep 28, 2006)

Wow.. I was worried for a second...not!

It is really simple, I work in the manufacturing business. At one point we had a failed product. The second we decided to "kill" it we removed all advertisement off our website. I just checked, D* still has the HR20 on their site in all it's glory. I love the neat little "order now" button. That does not make too much sense! If the HR20 is toast why are they still advertising? Their goal would be to shut it down ASAP. The sooner they shut it down the fewer customers they'll have to support. Why would D* intentionally create a non profitable workload?


By the way, my sources told me the iPod is discontinued. :lol:


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## bjibber (Feb 18, 2007)

Chazb said:


> So you are saying that people that want to go to direct tv and want to use the hr20 are in limbo because they are "almost non-existant supply"well that would kill direct tv for any new customers and hd.I am not saying you are wrong but that would be the biggest blunder direct tv could ever do waiting for months for a new unit to come out.I can see cable and E* using this bit of info in there ads it does not add up at all.


You mean a bigger blunder than releasing the HR20 700 with all of the problems they have had and all of the returns they have had. LOL I know very few owners who have not had multiple issues and sometimes multiple returns of their HR20s. How is that not the ultimate blunder. Maybe they are finally realizing that they made a mistake and they are trying to recuperate. I'm not saying dump the HR20, just that they would be wise to take advantage of the "shortage" and make some major change.


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## dhaakenson (Jan 14, 2007)

Hutchinshouse said:


> Wow.. I was worried for a second...not!
> 
> It is really simple, I work in the manufacturing business. At one point we had a failed product. The second we decided to "kill" it we removed all advertisement off our website. I just checked, D* still has the HR20 on their site in all it's glory. I love the neat little "order now" button. That does not make too much sense! If the HR20 is toast why are they still advertising? Their goal would be to shut it down ASAP. The sooner they shut it down the fewer customers they'll have to support. Why would D* intentionally create a non profitable workload?
> 
> By the way, my sources told me the iPod is discontinued. :lol:


Again, would you be ordering a refurbished unit or a new one?

The iPod is actually a good example here. Apple continually updates its products. It even discontinued its leading selling iPod, the Mini, and replaced it with the Nano. Did Apple pull ads for the Mini off its website before the Nano was available in stores and online? Nope. It continued to tout the Mini.

Did Apple tell secondary "in the know" people, like Earl, that the Mini was dead and soon to be replaced by the Nano? Nope.

Why would Apple even have replaced its leading selling iPod with a new, entirely different model? News analysis at the time felt that Apple was crazy to do it. But Apple felt that it needed to stay fresh, ahead of the curve.

Despite all the people who love their HR20s, the HR20 is truly behind the curve. One only has to read the problems reported here, the reviews posted by customers on many various websites (Amazon, Circuit City, eOpinions, etc), and you could easily see how a company like DirecTv, with pending new owner Liberty, finding it desirable to start with a fresh HD DVR, with an entirely different number (like HR25), so that it can tout all those new HD channels and rid itself of the "vocal minority" imprint that hangs around the HR20 like a noose, forever available via Google searches on the web.

A case could be made that it would be good business to start with a fresh model at this time, in light of the HR20's continual deficiencies (for some undetermined number of leasees).


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## bjibber (Feb 18, 2007)

jheda said:


> i cant imagine as a consumer purchasing a "new " product, the flagship product, of the company, is discontinued 9 mos. later. D would be shipping out a lot of FREE replacements.......


It is somewhat amusing to me when people are so impressed that they are getting a "brand new" HR20 to replace the one that failed 3 days after they started it up. Do they not pay attention to the hundreds of other posts of people talking about the numerous units that have been sent back to D*? Don't worry guys they will not run out of HR20s, they have a constant stream of returns that they can "refurbish" (couugh, RBR, cough) and have FedEx ship them out the next day. Now that is customer service!

On a good note... the other day i encountered my first official problem with any of my SD DTivos. My reciever was acting very slow and there was a long delay between commands from my remote and what the box would actually do. I thought that it might be something contagious that my DTivo was getting from my HR20 because they are dangerously close to each other. A few hours later when i went back to watching TV the commands were executed with normal great speed and no other problems. It may have just been slow because of updating or something but it did not last very long. I don't know if I can really call that a problem but it is as close to a problem as I have had with any of my DTivos in 4 years.


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## bjibber (Feb 18, 2007)

houskamp said:


> hope not.. sony has their own problems.. (financial)


Yeah maybe the Sony unit would have the option to record to Betamax oh wait I mean minidisk oh wait i mean Blueray.


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## Cyrus (Oct 22, 2006)

I have a friend who works at D*, though he doesn't work on hr20. When I told him about this so called news of hr20 being discontinued he had a good laugh. He said a few days ago they had a communication meeting with the top honchos of D* and hr20 is the centerpiece of all their upcoming stuff (VOD, etc). The hr20s are in such demand that they are adding a new manufacturer (in addition to pace) to meet the demand.


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## Chilli_Dog (Dec 26, 2005)

BobV said:


> Your talking about to differant things here..
> Installing has nothing to do wth the HR20 so called shortage.
> Your installer must be booked up untill the 30th.


I realize the installer may be booked until then. However, in our area, I would be surprised if that was the case.

Given that, I thought it was possible the installer was delayed because the HR20s were starting to be in short supply. How could the installer be here in two weeks to install a product that he can't get his hands on? Even Earl stated the "current rate of requests for the HR20 is exceeding the production levels".

Doesn't really matter that much to me either way. I just found some humor in the fact that I had to wait a while, given the current thread.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

dhaakenson said:


> Yeah, but is it a refurb? I can get those all day long.


No this was a "new" install, & not the 48 hour refurb replacement.


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## HarleyD (Aug 31, 2006)

Chilli_Dog said:


> I finally took the plunge and ordered an HR20 this evening (my HD Tivo is giving me the evil eye right now...) Anyway, when the CSR finalized the order, she acted like she was surprised about something and then came back and said I would have to wait until March 30th before I could get it. She also indicated that was the first big delay she'd seen. Prior to my call, she'd been able to schedule installs within a week or two of the order.
> 
> Figures I'd be one of the first to be affected by the "shortage"...


I ordered mine on Feb 7 and was given an install date of March 7 so it may have as much to do with geography as anything.

I live in a sort of rural part of Central Florida halfway between Tampa and Orlando.

If you have all your teeth, you weren't born here.


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## Car1181 (Mar 30, 2006)

Chilli_Dog said:


> I finally took the plunge and ordered an HR20 this evening (my HD Tivo is giving me the evil eye right now...) Anyway, when the CSR finalized the order, she acted like she was surprised about something and then came back and said I would have to wait until March 30th before I could get it. She also indicated that was the first big delay she'd seen. Prior to my call, she'd been able to schedule installs within a week or two of the order.
> 
> Figures I'd be one of the first to be affected by the "shortage"...


Go to your account on D*'s website and check your current orders. You can try to reschedule the appointment there. I was given a three week wait when I ordered my HR20. I went to the website the next day and was able to reshedule it to within a week. I've seen other posts with the same results. I've also seen other posts where this was tried and it didn't workout. I would give it a shot. Good luck.


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## jaywdetroit (Sep 21, 2006)

HarleyD said:


> I ordered mine on Feb 7 and was given an install date of March 7 so it may have as much to do with geography as anything.
> 
> I live in a sort of rural part of Central Florida halfway between Tampa and Orlando.
> 
> If you have all your teeth, you weren't born here.


That means you can go to Tiger games during Spring Training!!!!


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## Incog-Neato (Apr 21, 2006)

Oy Vey .. I was just kidding.


Herdfan said:


> You don't gett the nomenclature of the model #'2 do you?:eek2:


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## HarleyD (Aug 31, 2006)

jaywdetroit said:


> That means you can go to Tiger games during Spring Training!!!!


I could but I'm an Indians fan and they have spring training in Winter Haven (at least for the next two years before they move to AZ) which is where I actually live. I work in Lakeland where the Tigers have spring training though.

In fact Joker Marchant stadium where the Tigers train is about a mile from the Harley-Davidson dealership. They just did a bunch of upgrades and improvements there. It's actualy pretty nice. Chain-O-Lakes park where the Indians train is a dump and the city of Winter Haven doesn't want to sink any $$ into it which is why the Indians are leaving.


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## darrin1471 (Aug 18, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> There is a difference betwen stopping the HR20 "series"
> And just stopping sub-model.


DirecTV have said on two occasions that recent negotiations with manufactures have resulted in lower costs beyond their expectations for the HR20 in Q2/Q3 onwards. Manufacturers like Pace are always looking to reengineer their boxes to reduce costs and increase margins. Pace has started to use a single piece of silicon in other stbs, which reduces costs.
I would speculate a reengineered HR20 is the most likely cause of this discontinued rumour and a reengineered HR20 will soon appear with the same appearance and functions as the current HR20. 
If DirecTV have ordered a new lower cost HR20, then if they have underestimated demand then their may be shortages during the change over. There is a 4 month plus lead time for MPEG4 components and during earlier shortages Pace would have been able to move forward production a little in order to fill the gap. If there is a new hardware design on order then Pace will not have components in the pipeline beyond what DirecTV have ordered.
I repeat. This is only speculation


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## jheda (Sep 19, 2006)

I think you misunderstood my post, or i was ambiguous, bjbibber. Either way, my point was hypothetically if they put out a new hd DVR within a few months, say a sony brand one, D*, in my legal *opinion*, would be obligated to replace each and every one of our hr20s for reasons we can all summize, In any event, I again believe this is simply a misunderstanding that through the beauty of this site is being flushed out and corrected....



bjibber said:


> It is somewhat amusing to me when people are so impressed that they are getting a "brand new" HR20 to replace the one that failed 3 days after they started it up. Do they not pay attention to the hundreds of other posts of people talking about the numerous units that have been sent back to D*? Don't worry guys they will not run out of HR20s, they have a constant stream of returns that they can "refurbish" (couugh, RBR, cough) and have FedEx ship them out the next day. Now that is customer service!


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

BobV said:


> The HR20-700 is about 2 1/2 years old now. The HR20 was released a year late.


The HR20 was announced at the 2005 CES for shipment in August 2005. That adds up to just over the DirecTV programming commitment by my math.

I would point out that what was announced at the 2005 CES had a 100GB hard drive and lacked one or two of the features that they are working on in the production model.


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## gcisko (Sep 27, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> The HR20-700 is not discontinued.
> And the current rate of requests for the HR20 is exceeding the production levels. But again, to the OP's questio
> It is FICTION that the HR20-700 has been discontinued.


Exceeding production levels is nothing new. So the OP is spreading misinformation. Great. I will be sure to keep a look out for him/her.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

gcisko said:


> Exceeding production levels is nothing new. So the OP is spreading misinformation. Great. I will be sure to keep a look out for him/her.


As Earl posted, It may not be intentional, as we all "hear something" and then spread it here to find any truth to it.
The tittle of this thread is "Fact or Fiction...."


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## gcisko (Sep 27, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> There is a difference betwen stopping the HR20 "series"
> And just stopping sub-model
> 
> I don't think MisterEd just decided to "make this up"... not in the least.
> ...


Well if it is alright with you I will still keep an eye out for him  The whole thing just did not add up for me...


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## BobV (Dec 15, 2006)

harsh said:


> The HR20 was announced at the 2005 CES for shipment in August 2005. That adds up to just over the DirecTV programming commitment by my math.
> 
> I would point out that what was announced at the 2005 CES had a 100GB hard drive and lacked one or two of the features that they are working on in the production model.


Yah! They where looking for the successor for the HR10.
I has hoping back in 2005 to get the hr20 in Aug. 2005, But a year later I findly
got one.


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## HarleyD (Aug 31, 2006)

BobV said:


> Yah! They where looking for the successor for the HR10.
> I has hoping back in 2005 to get the hr20 in Aug. 2005, But a year later I findly
> got one.


Be careful what you ask for...you may get it.


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## Chilli_Dog (Dec 26, 2005)

Car1181 said:


> Go to your account on D*'s website and check your current orders. You can try to reschedule the appointment there. I was given a three week wait when I ordered my HR20. I went to the website the next day and was able to reshedule it to within a week. I've seen other posts with the same results. I've also seen other posts where this was tried and it didn't workout. I would give it a shot. Good luck.


Wow, I didn't even think about that. Great suggestion! I'll try this tonight.


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## Incog-Neato (Apr 21, 2006)

Actually I just like seeing my name up in print. :lol:


gcisko said:


> Exceeding production levels is nothing new. So the OP is spreading misinformation. Great. I will be sure to keep a look out for him/her.


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## cyrick (Mar 2, 2007)

The order problems are more tied to installers than they are to supply I believe. I called D* with an issue on my older DVR on Monday and they sent me out a new one (HR20), no charge. It was here Wednesday morning.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

cyrick said:


> The order problems are more tied to installers than they are to supply I believe. I called D* with an issue on my older DVR on Monday and they sent me out a new one (HR20), no charge. It was here Wednesday morning.


:welcome_s to the forum.


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## Pakratt (Sep 17, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> After pissing on PACE for a long time, a member in England, posted that the HR-20 is built by Selectron in Mexico.
> So what I wonder is: D* went to PACE for the R&D & did they "buy it outright" so Selectron [and others] can manufacture it?
> If so does this mean that if another manufacture starts building the HR-20, it will be the same [hardware/software]? If so then wouldn't it also be a "-700"?
> May not mean anything except the "poor build quality" isn't PACE's fault, but belongs to Selectron.


Our local Costco has a supply of the HR20-700 and they were manufactured in China. Don't know who the manufacturer was. My first HR20-700 was manufactured in Mexico.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Pakratt said:


> Our local Costco has a supply of the HR20-700 and they were manufactured in China. Don't know who the manufacturer was. My first HR20-700 was manufactured in Mexico.


Next time you're there, try to read the label on the box. The HR-20-700S is the one made in Mexico, if it has the same number [-700] but made in China, that would be interesting to know. Costco is fifty miles away from me, so I won't be able to.

EDIT: this may be the "other" manufacturer mentioned to increase production.


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

Solection is a contract manufacturer and has been making all "brands" of D* boxes for years including the beloved HR10.

IIRC, all the DirecTiVos from Hughes, Philips and D* were made by Solectron. Only the Samsungs were made in Korea.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Herdfan said:


> Solection is a contract manufacturer and has been making all "brands" of D* boxes for years including the beloved HR10.
> 
> IIRC, all the DirecTiVos from Hughes, Philips and D* were made by Solectron. Only the Samsungs were made in Korea.


LG are Korean [as in the H20-600]
As in the Sony HD SAT 200/300, as in the Hughes, as in the.... all made by LG. FWIW


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## darrin1471 (Aug 18, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> So what I wonder is: D* went to PACE for the R&D & did they "buy it outright" so Selectron [and others] can manufacture it?


Pace engineer the HR20 to DirecTV's specifications. If Thomson makes an HR20 to DirecTV's specifications then they will have to come up with a different price competitive design.
Pace used to manufacture their own product but now outsource that work mainly to Solectron. Solectron have facilities around the world including Mexico and China.
The HR20 is the collaboration of many companies and suppliers. As the price of components fall and new components are introduced, then the HR20 will be reengineered to improve performance and reduce costs. Therefore there is no point in DirecTV buying the HR20 design.


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## yesongs (Oct 4, 2006)

Seems to be the case - I was originally given a 3/29 install appointment for my second HR20, called retention and had it moved up to the 19th.

Been checking every few days since and there are no openings showing in March at all now.

I may try and have them send the unit to me, it's a straight swap for an SD Tivo so I could do it myself and keep the appointment and just have him hook me up with OTA where an extra line needs to be run

Eddie



cyrick said:


> The order problems are more tied to installers than they are to supply I believe. I called D* with an issue on my older DVR on Monday and they sent me out a new one (HR20), no charge. It was here Wednesday morning.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

yesongs said:


> Seems to be the case - I was originally given a 3/29 install appointment for my second HR20, called retention and had it moved up to the 19th.
> 
> Been checking every few days since and there are no openings showing in March at all now.
> 
> ...


Good luck getting them to just send it to you, they won't. I tried for about a month to get them to just send me a new HR20 to replace an HR10 that I have and they wouldn't. They told me I had to schedule an appointment to have an installer come and deliver and install it. I wound up going to BestBuy and getting one because I'm not about to take a day off of work and sit around all day only to find out my install had been cancelled like others have.


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## BobV (Dec 15, 2006)

RunnerFL said:


> Good luck getting them to just send it to you, they won't. I tried for about a month to get them to just send me a new HR20 to replace an HR10 that I have and they wouldn't. They told me I had to schedule an appointment to have an installer come and deliver and install it. I wound up going to BestBuy and getting one because I'm not about to take a day off of work and sit around all day only to find out my install had been cancelled like others have.


In most cases they will send the hr20 to you via FedX and the installer will bring the dish.
They really do not want the installer stocking the HR20.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

darrin1471 said:


> Pace engineer the HR20 to DirecTV's specifications. If Thomson makes an HR20 to DirecTV's specifications then they will have to come up with a different price competitive design.
> Pace used to manufacture their own product but now outsource that work mainly to Solectron. Solectron have facilities around the world including Mexico and China.
> The HR20 is the collaboration of many companies and suppliers. As the price of components fall and new components are introduced, then the HR20 will be reengineered to improve performance and reduce costs. Therefore there is no point in DirecTV buying the HR20 design.


Thanks for your reply, It's nice to have an idea of what's happening.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

darrin1471 said:


> Therefore there is no point in DirecTV buying the HR20 design.


It would seem to me that owning and controlling the design would allow DirecTV to have one single software version to support, instead of multiple different ones like they have with the R15.

Further, it simplifies customer service. Again, with the R15, due to manufacturing and design differences, even though all R15's are "functionally equivalent", they really are three different items and their are subtle differences between them, even to the consumer. I only have one R15 right now, but for awhile I had two from different manufacturers, and while they may have been functionally equivalent, they most certainly were not functionally identical.

Carl


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

carl6 said:


> It would seem to me that owning and controlling the design would allow DirecTV to have one single software version to support, instead of multiple different ones like they have with the R15.
> Carl


Or like the H20 [with the -100 & -600], but so far there is only the -700 from PACE, so if they don't sign a contract with another manufacturer, they can continue to have "control" over the HR-20, leaving PACE to keep "leaning down" the design.


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## marksman (Dec 23, 2006)

MisterEd said:


> I'm not BS'ing only relaying information given to us in our weekly DirecTV conference call. If DirecTV gave us the wrong information then I guess we'll be losing hundreds of thousands of dollars in sales & service due to their lies. I guess we'll just have to sue them.


If you are anything like ANY of the directv suppliers in my area, then they are probably doing it to you because you deserve it. I know the ones here give Directv no amount of problems from NEVER answering their phones, crappy installs, delayed installs, missing installs and the rest. I suspect the general relationship between DirecTV and the typical distributor is not good, at least in my experience.

So maybe they gave you bad information because it felt good.


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## jheda (Sep 19, 2006)

Costco is 50 miles away? wow, time to move!! Its my 2nd home!!! :lol:


veryoldschool said:


> Next time you're there, try to read the label on the box. The HR-20-700S is the one made in Mexico, if it has the same number [-700] but made in China, that would be interesting to know. Costco is fifty miles away from me, so I won't be able to.
> 
> EDIT: this may be the "other" manufacturer mentioned to increase production.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

jheda said:


> Costco is 50 miles away? wow, time to move!! Its my 2nd home!!! :lol:


Home depot used to be my second home.
There are always trade offs, Costco, home depot, or these beautiful mountains...hummmmmmmmm


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## jheda (Sep 19, 2006)

point well taken... shop on line


veryoldschool said:


> Home depot used to be my second home.
> There are always trade offs, Costco, home depot, or these beautiful mountains...hummmmmmmmm


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

jheda said:


> point well taken... shop on line


UPS, FedEx, know the way here like it was home....


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## Dawn Knight (Feb 22, 2007)

Same here - Costco and Home Depot are both 70 miles away for me, but these mountains are *SO* beautiful and inspiring! UPS and FedEx are at my house almost weekly. In fact, I bought my Samsung HD TV and my Belkin AV UPS online.


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## Incog-Neato (Apr 21, 2006)

We are not a DirecTV distributor nor do we supply service to any private residences. We are a major provider of DirecTV services to a specific contract only market across the US including the US Government. The "general relationship" between US and DirecTV is quite excellent but I do appreciate your concern.



marksman said:


> If you are anything like ANY of the directv suppliers in my area, then they are probably doing it to you because you deserve it. I know the ones here give Directv no amount of problems from NEVER answering their phones, crappy installs, delayed installs, missing installs and the rest. I suspect the general relationship between DirecTV and the typical distributor is not good, at least in my experience.
> 
> So maybe they gave you bad information because it felt good.


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## BobV (Dec 15, 2006)

Home Depot = 1.5 miles:icon_bb:
Sams Club = 2 miles:righton: 
Advanced Auto Parts = 3 miles:roundandr 
Lowes = 3 miles:joy: 
FedX,Ups = Priceless:goofygrin


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

AFAIK I've never even SEEN a Costco. I see online there is one 120 miles from me.

I'm luckier with Circuit City. Home Depot, and Best Buy. They're just 90 miles.

But I still drive for most of my major purchases. (I have driven 14 hours round trip to buy something.) I like the in-store return priviliges and don't want my items shipped any more than necessary. If my TV gets dropped, I wanna be the one to drop it!


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## NYHeel (Aug 21, 2006)

DishDog said:


> So are we saying that the box that everyone "hates to love" is really selling like crazy?


I always laugh when people mention that the Hr20 must be great because it's selling so well. My analogy is if the US government legislated that the only new cars that can be sold going forward are Chevys and then they reported that the Chevys were doing great since they have been selling like crazy. People are buying HDTVs much more now than in the past. People therefore need an HD receiver. If they want a DVR guess what they're going to buy (lease).... that's right an hr20 since that's the only thing available.

I actually think that Directv did a poor job of thinking ahead and planning. I mean how can you run short of your main equipment many times. They must not have realized that many more HDTVs were going to be purchased thereby driving up the amount of HD DVRs needed.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

NYHeel said:


> I always laugh when people mention that the Hr20 must be great because it's selling so well. My analogy is if the US government legislated that the only new cars that can be sold going forward are Chevys and then they reported that the Chevys were doing great since they have been selling like crazy. People are buying HDTVs much more now than in the past. People therefore need an HD receiver. If they want a DVR guess what they're going to buy (lease).... that's right an hr20 since that's the only thing available.
> 
> I actually think that Directv did a poor job of thinking ahead and planning. I mean how can you run short of your main equipment many times. They must not have realized that many more HDTVs were going to be purchased thereby driving up the amount of HD DVRs needed.


No, I think they partially bought the hype from all the Tivo bunny huggers (sorry, I just had to say it, no offense) that said they would never, ever give up their Tivo's for anything other then another Tivo. Thus they only need enough HR20s for new customers and the few that would switch or get an HR20 in addition to their Tivo. Well, that was wrong as tons of people with Tivo's flocked to get an HR20 for the new technology as well as HD locals. Thus initial supply problems (coupled with how can you really estimate how well your product will sell, all big consumer items from Xbox to Playstation have had supply problems when first rolled out).

Anyway....


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

BobV said:


> In most cases they will send the hr20 to you via FedX and the installer will bring the dish.
> They really do not want the installer stocking the HR20.


I already have the dish installed, along with 2 HR20's. They refuse to mail you the HR20 when it's "new".

Yet they will mail you an HR20 if it is to replace one that is being returned.

Makes 0 sense.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

RunnerFL said:


> I already have the dish installed, along with 2 HR20's. They refuse to mail you the HR20 when it's "new".
> Yet they will mail you an HR20 if it is to replace one that is being returned.
> Makes 0 sense.


What they "mail" or FedEx is out the the "refurb" department, not for "new" installations.
Maybe I don't understand you, but it makes sense to me. One is a replacement & the other is for a new installation [even though you don't need a dish].
You can go to a "retailer" and get one if you want.


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## Marcia_Brady (Nov 25, 2005)

bonscott87 said:


> No, I think they partially bought the hype from all the Tivo bunny huggers (sorry, I just had to say it, no offense) that said they would never, ever give up their Tivo's for anything other then another Tivo.


Oh yeah, that's probably it.

Because I remember them calling us and asking if _we'd_ give up our Tivo for their new unit, and we said 'no way.'

And they believed us!:hurah:

Yup, they bought the hype and now by gosh, 'tons of Tivo bunny huggers' are _flocking_ to buy the HR20, and they're (once again) out of stock because of this.\

Bottom line, _they screwed up again_. Whoever did their feasability survey is probably looking for work right now....or perhaps they promoted him.

Why is it that everytime D* screws something up, somebody's always got an excuse for their stupidity, lol?


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## NYHeel (Aug 21, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> No, I think they partially bought the hype from all the Tivo bunny huggers (sorry, I just had to say it, no offense) that said they would never, ever give up their Tivo's for anything other then another Tivo. Thus they only need enough HR20s for new customers and the few that would switch or get an HR20 in addition to their Tivo. Well, that was wrong as tons of people with Tivo's flocked to get an HR20 for the new technology as well as HD locals. Thus initial supply problems (coupled with how can you really estimate how well your product will sell, all big consumer items from Xbox to Playstation have had supply problems when first rolled out).
> 
> Anyway....


Sheesh, they messed up plain and simple. HDTVs are selling really well now and Directv didn't get enough boxes to meet the demand. THis product is very different from xboxes and playstations plus I think those companies had supply problems on purpose to add to the hype. Most Directv customers don't know or care who provides the software they just want a dvr that records in HD. I like the Tivos a lot better than the Hr20 but I got the Hr20 for my new second HDTV because that's what Directv was selling. Eventually, I'll switch my hr10 to the hr20 simply because I want the extra HD channels. I'm already considering it because I went the Mets in HD but I really want DLB as I use it all the time on that TV. It doesn't mean I like the Hr20 better. And certainly for new customers they don't even know what they are getting, just that they're getting an HD DVR.

The hr20 is improving. I still don't like the user interface and probably never will. I don't think it's particuarly intuitive. However, the box has some goos things about it that the Tivos don't. But don't confuse the high demand for the Directv HD DVR to mean that everyone loves the Hr20 and that it's been so successful. It may be successful but the high demand doesn't prove it.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> What they "mail" or FedEx is out the the "refurb" department, not for "new" installations.
> Maybe I don't understand you, but it makes sense to me. One is a replacement & the other is for a new installation [even though you don't need a dish].
> You can go to a "retailer" and get one if you want.


That's exactly my point...

You go online to directv.com to order a new HR20 to add to others you may already have and they *require* that an installer deliver the unit instead of just shipping it to you. That's crazy!


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

RunnerFL said:


> That's exactly my point...
> You go online to directv.com to order a new HR20 to add to others you may already have and they *require* that an installer deliver the unit instead of just shipping it to you. That's crazy!


OK, it crazy for you, granted. But what about the customers that need new coax, multi-switch, etc. installed?
I would guess there are more of them than you, but I have no clue, so......


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## psychobabbler (Sep 16, 2006)

BobV said:


> In most cases they will send the hr20 to you via FedX and the installer will bring the dish.
> They really do not want the installer stocking the HR20.


That's not what happened with my install. The installer had the receiver with him. Sadly, in spite of the good experience I had with the installer, I knew much more about the box than he did.


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## BobV (Dec 15, 2006)

psychobabbler said:


> That's not what happened with my install. The installer had the receiver with him. Sadly, in spite of the good experience I had with the installer, I knew much more about the box than he did.


It might be geographical thing. Who knows!!


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## BobV (Dec 15, 2006)

How is everyone ordering there HR20?;
DTV site,
A call to CRS,
Buy one at the dept. store.

The reason I am asking is this can make the differents and I am not seeing who did what in there posts!!!

I use the CRS method, Talking to someone live can make the differents .
It depends on your attitude and what package you have.
I have the premo package.:grin:


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

I've got two. Both obtained at a local retailer. No wait, no hassle.

First was a promo deal with an HDTV I bought, and got it at a good price.

Called DirecTV and discussed the purchase of the second one with them, got the amount of credits to my account that I was satisfied with and bought the second.

Installer came out after I got the first one and put in the dish.

Carl


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## BobV (Dec 15, 2006)

carl6 said:


> I've got two. Both obtained at a local retailer. No wait, no hassle.
> 
> First was a promo deal with an HDTV I bought, and got it at a good price.
> 
> ...


Nice!!:up: :up: :up:


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Marcia_Brady said:


> Why is it that everytime D* screws something up, somebody's always got an excuse for their stupidity, lol?


Sheesh. Was only pointing out that there is no accurate way to predict exactly what kind of demand you are going to have. Businesses are wrong all the time. Don't you think DirecTV wants to meet all the demand they can? That is their business after all. If you or anyone else can be so perfect to predict the correct amount of demand for a new product then I think you should be making a whole lot of money.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> OK, it crazy for you, granted. But what about the customers that need new coax, multi-switch, etc. installed?
> I would guess there are more of them than you, but I have no clue, so......


I don't think you get it...

I'm talking about when you order a second or third HR20 after you've already had an initial HR20 installed in your house along with new wiring and satellite dish. They STILL require that an installer come out to give you the new unit instead of shipping it directly to you.


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## Marcia_Brady (Nov 25, 2005)

bonscott87 said:


> Sheesh. Was only pointing out that there is no accurate way to predict exactly what kind of demand you are going to have.


But that's _not_ what you said. You were trying to blame it on those evil Tivo bunny huggers. Sometimes I think that you and Earl are 'brothers from a different mother (sorry, I just had to say it, no offense).' "Earl and Burl."



bonscott87 said:


> Businesses are wrong all the time. Don't you think DirecTV wants to meet all the demand they can? That is their business after all.


Exactly right. _That is their business after all_......it's what they do and they should know better. We're not talking about _me_, or any one individual. We're talking about a multi million dollar corporation and this is the 2nd time in as many months they've been back ordered.

Perhaps the shortage is due to the fact that many folks have returned/exchanged multiple units, but that's a whole 'nother debate.



bonscott87 said:
 

> If you or anyone else can be so perfect to predict the correct amount of demand for a new product then I think you should be making a whole lot of money.


Ouch. Zzzzzzzzzzing!

I'm not perfect, but I _am_ making a whole lot of money.  And I didn't express a desire for perfection in my previous post; I simply stated that D* screwed up (again), while pointing out that your accusation of their shortage being due to the 'Tivo HR10 faithful' is a bunch of baloney, and that you've solidified your position as a D* apologist (sorry, I just had to say it, no offense).


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Marcia_Brady said:


> I simply stated that D* screwed up (again), while pointing out that your accusation of their shortage being due to the 'Tivo HR10 faithful' is a bunch of baloney, and that you've solidified your position as a D* apologist (sorry, I just had to say it, no offense).


Not sure how that would be the HR10 faithful's fault other then not being so faithful. 

And if posting wild theories out of my big arss makes be a D* apologist then so be it. :hurah:


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

Actualy a lot of companies will on pupose call it short.. makes it look like everybody wants one when you call and they say well we are temperarly out of stock due to high demand...


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

RunnerFL said:


> I don't think you get it...
> I'm talking about when you order a second or third HR20 after you've already had an initial HR20 installed in your house along with new wiring and satellite dish. They STILL require that an installer come out to give you the new unit instead of shipping it directly to you.


I think I did "get it": doesn't that second or third receiver still need coax lines and/or a multi-switch?


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## BobV (Dec 15, 2006)

I still don't get it. 

Whats the difference if I went to the store and pick one up, Do I have to wait for the 
installer? NO,No,NO, I call D and say; Hey I need to activate a receiver.:nono2:


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> I think I did "get it": doesn't that second or third receiver still need coax lines and/or a multi-switch?


Clearly you don't get it...

I said "along with new wiring and satellite dish"... The coax for the new receiver and multiswitch are already in place! The new HR20 would simply be replacing a unit that is already hooked up like an R15 or an HR10... They still require that an installer do this...


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

BobV said:


> I still don't get it.
> 
> Whats the difference if I went to the store and pick one up, Do I have to wait for the
> installer? NO,No,NO, I call D and say; Hey I need to activate a receiver.:nono2:


Exactly, so why should we have to wait for an installer if we order it from them?

Thanks my point!


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## dhaakenson (Jan 14, 2007)

NYHeel said:


> I actually think that Directv did a poor job of thinking ahead and planning. I mean how can you run short of your main equipment many times. They must not have realized that many more HDTVs were going to be purchased thereby driving up the amount of HD DVRs needed.


Or, perhaps they didn't realize how many replacement HR20s they'd be sending out to leasees who's first HR20 failed to work correctly...


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

RunnerFL said:


> Clearly you don't get it...
> I said "along with new wiring and satellite dish"... The coax for the new receiver and multiswitch are already in place! The new HR20 would simply be replacing a unit that is already hooked up like an R15 or an HR10... They still require that an installer do this...


This has become beating a dead horse. 
You apparently had yourself wired for future needs. 
As I posted "for you it's crazy", but I was trying [with very little luck] to explain some sense to why this is done the way D* does. 
They send out "refurbs" not new units. For a customer to get a NEW unit it has to come from the installer/retail store.
I would guess 90+% of the time more cabling would need to be added also requiring an installer.
At this point, I'm not sure who doesn't "get it".
Still thinking "I get it", go to the store & buy one now, you're done end of story.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> This has become beating a dead horse.
> You apparently had yourself wired for future needs.
> As I posted "for you it's crazy", but I was trying [with very little luck] to explain some sense to why this is done the way D* does.
> They send out "refurbs" not new units. For a customer to get a NEW unit it has to come from the installer/retail store.
> ...


I was ONLY referring to the fact that those of us who are already wired for the unit, have the right dish and the right multiswitch STILL have to have an installer come out... Get it now??? I doubt it...

I'm done arguing this with you because if you don't get it now you never will...


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

RunnerFL said:


> I was ONLY referring to the fact that those of us who are already wired for the unit, have the right dish and the right multiswitch STILL have to have an installer come out... Get it now??? I doubt it...
> I'm done arguing this with you because if you don't get it now you never will...


I've agreed with you, from your point of view.
I've tried to give some explanation as to "why".
I've suggested options for you to get it sooner.
I haven't argued any points.
Do you always feel it is "crazy" when you don't get your way?
Life might be better if you become a bit more mature.


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## etchasketch (Dec 21, 2006)

Hijack / reroute: OK campers, early in the thread (irt dumping the HR20 lemon), it was asked when the stealth model will (if ever) be on the shelf (metaphorically speaking)?

lamontcranston:


> While we're on the subject, what's the latest on the HR20-700B or whatever the black one is going to be designated?


Earl dropped a tease, that the B version was reality, not just guff. A little birdie told me that _duh_recTV © would indeed bring a black box to market; the HR23-600BS. What might the code-talk mean? Lemme splain it to ya:

The (2) in model nummer was retained, and now stands for twice the hard-drive capacity. The (3) is a trifekta: indicating (a) the MSR price at $300, (b) the number of years you must extend service contract to receive the new unit, and, well, (c) an insider engineer joke suggesting triple the updates / triple the glitches.

The (600) shows LG got game. At first blush the (BS) designator might seem self explanatory, but, to clear possible confusion, it means the new unit will ship in both carbon-black and brushed-silver. And, admittedly, there's the other thing &#8230;

Last: hush-hush, mums the word, keep this quiet (amongst the 36,214 members at dbstalk)

... or, there might be a _run_ and BS will be in short supply!

Etch :beatdeadhorse:

Ps - DON'T even think about faking a defective HR-20 just to swap into the new BS variant. We know who you are, where you live, and what is your credit card number, and Ve Have Vays &#8230;


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## richlife (Dec 4, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> UPS, FedEx, know the way here like it was home....


I'm in a similar boat -- Costco 50 (or more) miles away, beautiful woods and even UPS, FedEx, etc. still have problems finding me (and when they do, can't be relied on to drive to my door because my driveway looks like it falls off the end of the earth). But I wouldn't change my forest and the ("winter" only) view for the small convenience of nearby stores. And FedEx/DHL give me something to complain about since my HR20 works fine.


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## richlife (Dec 4, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> I've agreed with you, from your point of view.
> I've tried to give some explanation as to "why".
> I've suggested options for you to get it sooner.
> I haven't argued any points.
> ...


Now, now -- let's not dirty the sandbox. I think you're right VOS. As we've all noticed many times, there's a lot of expertise here that doesn't exist in the real world of D* customers. Their assumption has to be that the customer cannot under any circumstances be relied on to self-install (how many more complaints would that have brought). And the idea that they might believe me if I say I can do it myself is equally absurd (reread the previous parenthetical comment).

If you buy from Best Buy or whoever, you are at your own risk. If you buy from D*, they are going to manage you -- like it or not.


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## BobV (Dec 15, 2006)

Forget it; Just get the Sony DVR in Nov. 2007......


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