# Crazy Idea For D* and E*



## junki (Feb 19, 2004)

Iv got a Crazy Idea For D* and E*. One dish that works for both. If a customer wants D* or E* the same dish pointed at 101/110/119. They both point at 2 out of the 3 for programming,so it would be nice if they join together and create a dish that is universal.


I really know it is a crazy idea, but just dreaming. 
Getting sick :barf: of changing out dishes all the time!


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## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

I believe that there is an inherent design problem with your proposed solution. I could be wrong, but I believe that DirecTV and Dish Network use different methods of switching between the even and odd transponders.

Also, it's going to get interesting since the DBS providers are now using Ka band frequencies as well as Ku band.


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## cdru (Dec 4, 2003)

Well you could always go with a toroidal style dish assuming you could find compatible LNBs. The problem is that they are competing companies. They could care less what is convenient for the installer or consumer. If it doesn't help their bottom line, they don't care. 

Dish would also get the short end of the stick as they have nothing at 101, so if they had to provide a 3-sat dish, 1/3 of it would be just a wasted expense. 

The satellites are also at different elevations at the same azimuth, so you'd either have to have different skews or some way of adjusting the lnb position to hit the correct focal point. All this extra effort and complexity just so they can save a few bucks on not having to replace a $10 piece of sheet metal.


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## jcg (Jan 28, 2005)

The FCC would not allow DTV and Dish to merge because it would be a monopoly.


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## Cheyenne (Apr 23, 2002)

Why would any business want to promote and provide access to a competetors business?
Keep dream'in.....


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

> The satellites are also at different elevations at the same azimuth,


Actually, any satellite assigned to the same slot in the sky would appear to be at the same elevation to the dish sitting 22,000+ miles away. The respective Dish and Directv satellites at the same location are far enough away to not be in danger of bumping into eachother, but the dish here would see them as being in the same spot. The problem with this is that to receive both on it's own LNB would be impossible since only one LNB can occupy the spot required to pick up the signal. They could probably develop a "special" LNB to do both systems (splitting the output of the probe inside the LNB to feed the two different receivers), but I am sure that neither company would want to.


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## Cyclone (Jul 1, 2002)

I always thought that a LNB looking at a slot (say 110), would see all 32 Transponders at that slot (both D* & E*), but the Set Top Box would be authorized to only display the once you paid for (and therefore would be the only ones it coud decrypt).


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

some people use a 3 slot direct old style dish for D&E. they use a multiswitch to split the signals. Only trouble is 110 and Ds off band LNB. But little programming is on D at 110.

Theres NO benefit to either provider for making changing services easier


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## Neil Derryberry (Mar 23, 2002)

Not to mention that they want the dish on your house to have their name on it... free advertising.


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## junki (Feb 19, 2004)

jcg said:


> The FCC would not allow DTV and Dish to merge because it would be a monopoly.


Did not mean for them to merge, just if they got on same page and used the same dish. A type of "universal dish"


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## sikma (Dec 11, 2003)

Easy on junki fellas, he did say it was a CRAZY idea


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## Brian Rector (Mar 25, 2002)

Neil Derryberry said:


> Not to mention that they want the dish on your house to have their name on it... free advertising.


Im surprised that EchoStar hasnt created a site where you can buy mugs, cups, thermos, notebooks, etc having the Dish Network name on them...but then.,....that would cost EchoStar money to have a company make those items.


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

Brian - there IS a site where you can get E* junk. Sorry, I forget where it is.

As for the on-topic stuff, no one's proposing a merger - just bandwidth sharing.

Legacy gear works fine - except for the D* C-LNB, but that's easy to fix. Bigger problem is E* DishPro non-standard gear.  And of course, D* and E* use different encoding techniques. If they were smart (and CEO egos could be put aside - HA), when MPEG-4 hits, they'll make sure they're compatible.

In the C-Band days, there weren't any duplicate feeds by programming provider. You could buy your HBO, TLC, Denver 5, whatever authorization from any of several services, then select the ONE transponder location for the channel you wanted. The current DBS setup is a horrible waste of bandwidth and is the ONLY reason (other than egos) that consumers have to deal with StupidDish, multiple dishes, over-compression, etc.


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## jdspencer (Nov 8, 2003)

Slightly off topic here.
I am a DirecTV customer with the Phase III dish and a 4x8 multiswitch connected to two DirecTV DVRs, HTL-HD receiver AND a Dish network 301 receiver. The 301 is used only for the Superstation pack. This works because the Superstations are on TP15 on the 119 satellite. The Phase III dish LNB don't mess with the odd TPs. Just put a 22kHz signal generator in the line to the 301.


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## kenglish (Oct 2, 2004)

I researched this a couple of years ago.

The LNBs for DirecTv and E*'s legacy gear are all the same. The differences are in how they do the switching between sats. D* uses a 22KHz tone switch. E* uses a proprietary voltage-pulsing scheme. 

Where it gets interesting is, there can only be two possible sats with D*. So,when D* wanted to add a third satellite, they had to improvise.....the "Sat-C" kit. It uses an LNB with odd frequency translation on the 110 bird, then uses a special diplexer to add it in on one of the other downleads.

E* now is using a special "stacked" LNB for DISHPro, so the older legacy stuff would need converters. They are using DiSEQc switching, but I have been told it is not exactly standard, so it may not work with the very common European multioswitch systems.


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## NThomas76207 (Jul 30, 2004)

jcg said:


> The FCC would not allow DTV and Dish to merge because it would be a monopoly.


But what about rumors of the XM & SIRIUS merger??? If that gets the ok, I would seriously question the FCC


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

XM and Sirius was a hoax. Wouldn't come CLOSE to passing judicial review....

It IS however much more likely that a larger entity might try to buy out XM or Sirius now while they are still small (Sirius probably wouldn't work because it is already way overvalued.... yet XM seems to continue to lag, even though they are much larger than Sirius and continue to gain market share)


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## dfergie (Feb 28, 2003)

SimpleSimon said:


> As for the on-topic stuff, no one's proposing a merger - just bandwidth sharing.
> 
> Legacy gear works fine - except for the D* C-LNB, but that's easy to fix. Bigger problem is E* DishPro non-standard gear.  And of course, D* and E* use different encoding techniques. If they were smart (and CEO egos could be put aside - HA), when MPEG-4 hits, they'll make sure they're compatible.
> 
> In the C-Band days, there weren't any duplicate feeds by programming provider. You could buy your HBO, TLC, Denver 5, whatever authorization from any of several services, then select the ONE transponder location for the channel you wanted. The current DBS setup is a horrible waste of bandwidth and is the ONLY reason (other than egos) that consumers have to deal with StupidDish, multiple dishes, over-compression, etc.


 If all the providers got togather they could provide exellent PQ as Simon says (no pun ) I subed to C-band in those days...thru several providers...Our Sd would look good not to mention Hd...


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## JM Anthony (Nov 16, 2003)

sikma said:


> Easy on junki fellas, he did say it was a CRAZY idea


I don't know if it's THAT crazy. It certainly wouldn't be the only case where competitors shared expensive infrastructure.


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

No bandwidth would be saved since E* and D* use sightly different encoding. As stated MPEG-4 may change this situation.

Also there is the probelm of "local avails" that both providers use to promote their programming (or sell as advertising time). If you can watch the same cable network side-by-side over both D* and E*. Some of the commecial breaks will be different - that's the local avail. If you have cable you will see commercials for your local car dealers during this time. You don't think that "Joe Jones Buick" actually bought time on the coast-to-coast CNN feed?


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## junki (Feb 19, 2004)

Michael P said:


> No bandwidth would be saved since E* and D* use sightly different encoding. As stated MPEG-4 may change this situation.
> 
> Also there is the probelm of "local avails" that both providers use to promote their programming (or sell as advertising time). If you can watch the same cable network side-by-side over both D* and E*. Some of the commecial breaks will be different - that's the local avail. If you have cable you will see commercials for your local car dealers during this time. You don't think that "Joe Jones Buick" actually bought time on the coast-to-coast CNN feed?


I think you are trying to say the same Satellites in the sky would be used? I think, maybe thats your input? What i meas is that both D and E Use 2 out of the 3 same locations to beam down to the dish on your home. It would make alot of sense to me anyways to use the same type of Reflector/Polar Plate and LNBF for either D or E. I understand the locations are off by inches here on earth but an adjustment on the Elevation or Skew would be a lot easier the changing the dish out. Am I ASS-U-ME-ing that would make sense?


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