# HR21 Pro



## marcusadolfsson (Jun 11, 2007)

Not sure if this is the right forum, but here is the first image I have seen of the HR21 Pro. Wanted to share. Ad scanned from the latest CE Pro.

 


Click to enlarge.


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## marcusadolfsson (Jun 11, 2007)

HR 21 Pro

- 100 Hrs HD Recording Capacity
- Optical HMDI output (using DLI, I have never heard of this)
- Rack mountable
- Efficient cooling fans


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## Philby (Jul 25, 2007)

What is an optical HDMI output?

And will the extra cost for this DVR be less than adding a 500GB eSata drive to the HR20? (which i think doubles the capacity?)

I think the fact that it's black and rack mountable will make this the "STB" of choice for lots of hometheaters with D* (or moving to D* after the new HDs light up)


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## or270 (Feb 12, 2006)

Looks like that will cost some $$$$


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## marcusadolfsson (Jun 11, 2007)

Some goggling:

Digital Light Interface (DLI): An optical light interface that can transmit digital video, audio, and data simultaneously over a single light link.

But which equipment has a DLI receiver port?


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## marcusadolfsson (Jun 11, 2007)

One more post to post URLs....


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## marcusadolfsson (Jun 11, 2007)

HDCP Specification v1.2 Amendment for HDCP-DLI Interfaces

http://www.digital-cp.com/home/HDCP_on_DLI_Specification_Rev1_0.pdf


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## or270 (Feb 12, 2006)

Industry unique feature optical HDMI output?

Wonder if there will be a regular HR21 and a HR21 Pro?


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## jlancaster (Feb 10, 2006)

this is the first I have heard of D* doing 1080p...am I wrong?


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

I'm surprised nobody posted "I want one!" yet.

So, let me be the first.

I want one!


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## tiger2005 (Sep 23, 2006)

jlancaster said:


> this is the first I have heard of D* doing 1080p...am I wrong?


I've noticed that too. This would be the first I've heard of any content provider doing 1080p.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

That would be a serious "BRING IT!!!" but in the meantime there's a real difference between an ad in a trade magazine and the real thing. For all we know the 1080p silkscreening could be a mistake (or bad photoshop work).


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## DR_LaRRY_PEpPeR (Jul 4, 2007)

I don't see an OTA input on there. :nono2:


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

marcusadolfsson said:


> Ad scanned from the latest CE Pro.


What month? I don't recall seeing it in my latest issue.


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## Greg Alsobrook (Apr 2, 2007)

Herdfan said:


> Someone please explain to me why I have to press 1 for ENGLISH!


LMAO!!!! i love it!! and agree totally!


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## christo76 (Sep 12, 2006)

It looks nice... but does it have DLB


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## D*Noob (Oct 24, 2006)

"With up to 100 HD channels available by the end of the year on DirecTV, the HR21 Pro Series is your HD solution".

Would that mean this thing will be available by the end of the year??


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

Remember that D*'s current HD receivers indicate the OUTPUT format on the front.

The "1080p" indicator probably means the DVR will be converting the image to 1080p to feed a 1080p display. It does not mean that D* will be transmitting that format.

Is this ad intended for home theatre professionals? It refers to "your customers."


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## bigbenny13 (Jul 22, 2007)

paulman182 said:


> Remember that D*'s current HD receivers indicate the OUTPUT format on the front.
> 
> The "1080p" indicator probably means the DVR will be converting the image to 1080p to feed a 1080p display. It does not mean that D* will be transmitting that format.
> 
> Is this ad intended for home theatre professionals? It refers to "your customers."


This appears to be an ad from the CEDIA expo coming up in Denver. So the ad would be for custom installers. The rack mounts would indicate higher end custom installs. My guess is the 1080p would be strictly upconvert as no one seems to have any plans for broadcasting that way.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

CE Pro is a magazine for custom installers so that would make sense. The stuff in there is usually more expensive than your car.


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## diggumsmax (Sep 12, 2006)

I'm wondering if 1080p is a typo. If you look at the pic there is no light for 1080i. Does it not output 1080i?


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## cbaker (Dec 20, 2006)

I have heard of an HR21 coming out but is this it, only the pro edition - which is obviously for the serious home theater with $$. I think the real question for most is, is there going to be a standard HR21 and if so, how will it be different than the HR20? Will it just be like the H20 vs H21 with OTA being the only major difference?

I had done many searches here and on several other sites over the past few weeks but could not find any solid info about the HR21. I am no D* HW expert but maybe someout out there is. What else is coming and will it make upgrading several units to the HR20 in the next month a stupid move?


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

I don't really see the appeal unless you need rack mount or feel the scalar doing a 1080p upconvert is worthwhile.


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## Sirshagg (Dec 30, 2006)

marcusadolfsson said:


> Not sure if this is the right forum, but here is the first image I have seen of the HR21 Pro. Wanted to share. Ad scanned from the latest CE Pro.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'll take it for $19.99.  
Think D will go for it?


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## easton (Feb 16, 2005)

As a custom installer that uses HR20s almost exclusively, this is fantastic news. I will be at Cedia all next week and will report back after seeing this. The most exciting thing about that box is the fact that it has an RS232 port on the back. These are useful for extracting metadata like song titles/artist info from the mucisn channels and getting feedback of channel number for touchscreens in areas that might not have a television in them.


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## EaglePC (Apr 15, 2007)

going price 599.00 lease only available sometimes in mid November 2007 along with the other HR21
HR21 PRO its commercial item
this is what i found out talking with retention @ DirecTV


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## uscboy (Sep 5, 2006)

Can you turn off Auto Correct on this box?

Might be worth $599! hah.


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## Sirshagg (Dec 30, 2006)

uscboy said:


> Can you turn off Auto Correct on this box?
> 
> Might be worth $599! hah.


Definitely worth it if it's got DLB, MRV and > 50 SL.


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## tony4d (Sep 5, 2006)

DR_LaRRY_PEpPeR said:


> I don't see an OTA input on there. :nono2:


Probably because the sat 1 port is ready for SWM and OTA. That would be sweet, a single cable going into the unit and it handles SWM and diplexing OTA. 

Considering the larger SWM module has an OTA port this would make sense.


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## Jomanscool2 (Aug 28, 2006)

I like the fact that it has active cooling. No longer will I need to use upside-down laptop coolers on my HD-DVRs, or at least, the new ones I get. (and I'm sure all the home-theater installers don't mind that either, as everyone knows heat is the bane to all electronics)


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

easton said:


> The most exciting thing about that box is the fact that it has an RS232 port on the back. These are useful for extracting metadata like song titles/artist info from the mucisn channels and getting feedback of channel number for touchscreens in areas that might not have a television in them.


The HR20 has a USB port for exactly the same reason. It is essentially an RS232 port, you just need a converter.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

Jeremy W said:


> The HR20 has a USB port for exactly the same reason. It is essentially an RS232 port, you just need a converter.


That is also true of all of the newer DirecTV receivers. The D11, R15, D12, HR20. All have active USB ports for RS232 serial interfacing to home entertainment equipment.

Carl


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## easton (Feb 16, 2005)

Jeremy W said:


> The HR20 has a USB port for exactly the same reason. It is essentially an RS232 port, you just need a converter.


I have known this for quite some time. What I have also known is that the current RS-232 Protocol is pretty weak when it comes to feedback, and they will be rolling out a whole new protocol with much richer feedback features.


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## sbl (Jul 21, 2007)

My guess is that the RS232 is for a high-end remote control solution such as Crestron - they tend to use RS232 interfaces. This would make perfect sense for a rack-mount product.


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## VicF (Sep 5, 2006)

No OTA = no sale with me


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## bluemoon737 (Feb 21, 2007)

jlancaster said:


> this is the first I have heard of D* doing 1080p...am I wrong?


Obviously the source material is not 1080p so this unit must have a scaler/de-interlacer built in. I see no HQV stickers on the front so they must be using some other chipset (too bad...if they had put a Realta in there folks would be drooling!).


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## Eich (Jan 9, 2007)

A "pro" version needs a lot more processing power than the standard version. I'd want to see much faster performance, channel changes, remote response, FFW/REW response etc...


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## bluemoon737 (Feb 21, 2007)

tony4d said:


> Probably because the sat 1 port is ready for SWM and OTA. That would be sweet, a single cable going into the unit and it handles SWM and diplexing OTA.
> 
> Considering the larger SWM module has an OTA port this would make sense.


I'm guessing it's like the other "1" units...no OTA tuner (most newer TV's have them anyway so it cuts costs).


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## 420greg (Sep 23, 2006)

Looks to me like the rack mounting would be good for sports bars. The one I go to has 10 hr20's stacked up in their audio/video rack and it looks like crap. 

This unit is going to give them a much cleaner look.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

IIRC, optical HDMI is for extending beyond 15m lengths.

Anyone??

Mike


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

I think the 1080p is a mistake as there is no light for 1080i. There are a lot of TVs/monitors that can take 1080i and not 1080p as input (while the box has 480i and 480p marked on it?).


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## HD AV (Nov 22, 2006)

bluemoon737 said:


> Obviously the source material is not 1080p so this unit must have a scaler/de-interlacer built in. I see no HQV stickers on the front so they must be using some other chipset (too bad...if they had put a Realta in there folks would be drooling!).


I posted previously, maybe Earl can confirm this, I have heard from a reputable source that D* is currently engineering testing 1080p and that they "may" have 1 or 2 chanels "coming soon". :lol: :eek2: :hurah:


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

HD AV said:


> I have heard from a reputable source that D* is currently engineering testing 1080p and that they "may" have 1 or 2 chanels "coming soon". :lol: :eek2: :hurah:


Why would they waste bandwidth on 1080p channels that can only be seen with a very exclusive receiver that very few people will ever even know exists?


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## Ken_F (Jan 13, 2003)

The HR21 is a lower-cost version of the HR20 (w/o the ATSC tuners) based on the Broadcom BCM7401. That's the same chip Tivo used in their new $299 TivoHD. The non-DVR H21 uses the BCM7402, which is the cheaper variant of that chip without SATA support.

This is the first I have heard of 1080p output on a "HR21 Pro." I know they had 500Gb DVR in the works -- I had assumed it was the next-generation HR22, but it looks like that is the "HR21 Pro" as well.



Jeremy W said:


> Why would they waste bandwidth on 1080p channels that can only be seen with a very exclusive receiver that very few people will ever even know exists?


Content delivered in 1080p24 requires less bandwidth than 1080i60 video. In fact, most of the 1080i60 movie channels -- including HBO, Starz, and Showtime -- are already using 1080p24 in a 1080i60 carrier. Since the overwhelming majority of 1080p displays use relatively cheap video processing circuitry that cannot detect and display that 1080p24 source, very few people are able to experience the full quality that these channels have to offer. It's akin to setting your Blu-ray player to output 1080i.

The Broadcom BCM7401 in the HR21 can output 1080p24 (if DirecTV wanted to do that), but it won't deinterlace 1080i into 1080p60. DirecTV would have to use a separate IC in the HR21 Pro to provide 1080p60 output. Examples of such ICs include the Silicon Optix ReonVX and the Anchor Bay ABT2010.

These chips would:
 Provide per-pixel, motion adaptive deinterlace of 1080i60 video.

 Detect 1080p24 sources within the 1080i60 signal, perform inverse telecine to obtain that 1080p24 source, and then apply pull-down to produce a 1080p60 signal from that 1080p24 source.
Many pre-2006 HDTVs can do neither. Most 2006 HDTVs can do #1, but not #2. Only a handful of 2006 and shipping 2007 HDTVs (ex: Pioneer, Fujitsu plasmas) can do #2. If you spent less than $4000 on your 2006-2007 HDTV, then it probably does not do #2.

*If* the HR21 Pro were to use one of the two solutions linked above, it is probable that DirecTV's MPEG-4 @ 1440x1080i output as 1080p on a movie channel would look better than a higher-bitrate 1920x1080i MPEG-2 signal output from a cable box at 1080i.

_Edit: Don't take these comments to suggest that 1080p output from the HR21 Pro would provide a dramatic improvement in PQ. However, the difference between quality deinterlace and mediocre deinterlace of 1080i is likely greater than the difference between DirecTV's MPEG-4 @ 1440x1080 MPEG-4 and higher-bitrate MPEG-2 @ 1920x1080. If you want to test the difference, set your Blu-ray or HD-DVD player to 1080i instead of 1080p output and compare. Pay close attention to the differences in resolution during camera pans and action scenes with lots of movement. Note the combing, stairstepping, moire, etc in the interlaced signal that is absent from the progressive one._


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## VideoVeteran (Dec 12, 2006)

Here is an actual photo from CEDIA (shown w/o rack mount hardware):


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## spec2 (Oct 1, 2007)

Anything new on the Pro version ship date? I see the regular version is starting to ship so I'd think the pro version wouldn't be too far behind.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

spec2 said:


> Anything new on the Pro version ship date? I see the regular version is starting to ship so I'd think the pro version wouldn't be too far behind.


It is still a little ways off...


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> It is still a little ways off...


Yeah, I haven't even received one to field test yet! :lol:

Or have I... :eek2:


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## MikeekiM (Oct 1, 2006)

Well...I am waiting for this one...  I am in the market for a 2nd...

I've got 2 upgraded SD DTiVos running in addition to my eSATA expanded HR20, so I am in a position to be patient...


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## Que (Apr 15, 2006)

AirRocker said:


> Originally Posted by Herdfan View Post
> Someone please explain to me why I have to press 1 for ENGLISH!
> 
> LMAO!!!! i love it!! and agree totally!









VicF said:


> No OTA = no sale with me


+++

Does the HR21 pro have DLB?


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## wmccain (Jan 9, 2006)

Well, I guess this means that the (previously announced) *HR20 Pro* will never see the light of day (it appears to be "superseded" by the HR21 Pro) ...

Apparently I made the right decision several months ago when I gave up on the HR20 Pro and ordered and installed two more HR20-700s. Thank God for Middle Atlantic custom faceplate rackshelves!

The HR20 Pro (see Engadget for photos) would have been cool, albeit expensive: rack mounted, 3U rather than 2U, with a front-panel LCD that showed the actual picture on the current channel. And, of course, the OTA tuners which the HR21 (Pro) lacks.

The HR21 Pro seems to be little more than a rack-packaged HR21. It appears to have two additional chips: a de-interlacer (for 1080p) and a Prolific PL-2303 (the chip that's inside every USB-to-serial adapter that DirecTV supports). It wouldn't surprise me if the mainboard of the regular HR21 has unpopulated traces for exactly those two extra chips!

The HR21 Pro may seem attractive for custom installers (one of my sidelines) ... but an external USB-to-serial adapter can be had for $15 and most high-end installations already have a quality de-interlacer (e.g. DVDO) and/or a projector or flat panel with a decent de-interlacer (with 2/3 pulldown support).

So, the main utility that I see in the HR21 Pro is that it saves you about $150 that a Middle Atlantic custom faceplate rackshelf would cost you. And it provides integrated cooling ... if those fans are quiet enough. (Standard custom installers' trick: run _several_ 12 volt DC fans at 6 volts. Much quieter than one fan at 12 volts ... and more air movement besides.)

William C. McCain
Palo Alto, California


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

wmccain said:


> The HR21 Pro seems to be little more than a rack-packaged HR21. It appears to have two additional chips: a de-interlacer (for 1080p) and a Prolific PL-2303 (the chip that's inside every USB-to-serial adapter that DirecTV supports).


Where are you getting this information?


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## wmccain (Jan 9, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> Where are you getting this information?


By "appears", I meant that this is a *conjecture*.

I have no "inside knowledge" ... I am just speculating on how the HR21 Pro is likely to be implemented. We all know that minimizing cost is important to any consumer electronics manufacturer. In this case, that means "use the same mainboard (or a minor variant thereof) if at all possible". That would minimize the unique engineering and manufacturing costs of the "Pro" version.

So, beside rack ears and cooling fans, what features does the Pro version have that the regular version lacks? Only two:

1. The 1080p de-interlacing. Previous posts have indicated that the HR21's Broadcom chip cannot do it, hence I hypothesize an additional de-interlacing chip.

2. The RS232 serial port on the rear replaces the USB port. Easiest way to do that, with minimal hardware re-engineering and no firmware changes, is to add the same (very cheap) USB-to-serial chip that is found inside nearly all USB-to-serial adapters (all except the ones made by Keyspan).

Bill


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

wmccain said:


> By "appears", I meant that this is a *conjecture*.


OK. Well to start, the HR21 Pro doesn't do 1080p, so that one is out.


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## wmccain (Jan 9, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> OK. Well to start, the HR21 Pro doesn't do 1080p, so that one is out.


Not surprising ... I guess the "1080p" in the picture in the magazine ad is erroneous (possibly taken of a prototype). But where do you get _your_ information? Beta tester?

I forgot about the optical HDMI jack, but that clearly would be done by feeding the electrical HDMI into an optical adapter. Notice that the two HDMI jacks are grouped together with the RS232 jack on the rear panel of the "Pro". That suggests a totally standard HR21 mainboard, with a small "rear panel jack" daughterboard that does the USB-to-serial conversion and the HDMI-to-optical conversion (and which mounts the HDMI switch as well as the three jacks).

Bill


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## wmccain (Jan 9, 2006)

Oh, yeah ... I forgot that the "Pro" has a larger hard drive. That, too, requires no new engineering — and just a "parts list" change in manufacturing.

So what does the "Pro" cost to make that isn't in the standard HR21?

1. New case, with rack ears and fans.

2. Additional "jack board" for the RS232 port, optical/HDMI, and switch (and adapter chips).

3. Bigger hard drive.

Probably worth the extra $300 (if you don't need OTA tuners). But everything in that list can be added to a standard HR20/HR21, at modest cost (with the possible exception of the optical HDMI converter).

Bill


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## flipptyfloppity (Aug 20, 2007)

The HR20 and HR21 can already deinterlace (480i->720p). And just putting an additional 1080i->1080p deinterlacer wouldn't accomplish a lot. What it needs is the ability to convert both 720p and 1080i to 1080p internally. Having it convert 720p->1080i and then deinterlacing that to 1080p wouldn't do any good.

The best would be to get direct 1080p upconversion on the main chipset, my understanding is the latest Broadcom chipset is capable.

I don't think the Pro even really exists right now. It was probably just a demo unit put together a while back from whatever they had on hand (HR20) now they'd have to start over with new HR21 guts.


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## wmccain (Jan 9, 2006)

flipptyfloppity said:


> I don't think the Pro even really exists right now. It was probably just a demo unit put together a while back from whatever they had on hand (HR20) ...


Yes, the "HR20 Pro" that was "shown around" in early 2006 was certainly a "one off" prototype. A bit over-ambitious (it was reportedly going to sell for over $1500). Undoubtedly they shelved it and decided to, instead, produce a much more modest "Pro" version of the HR21.



flipptyfloppity said:


> ... now they'd have to start over with new HR21 guts.


But the HR21 Pro appears to be "for real", possibly already "released to manufacturing", and (perhaps) soon to be available. For only $599.

Bill


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## wmccain (Jan 9, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> OK. Well to start, the HR21 Pro doesn't do 1080p, so that one is out.


Where do you get _your_ information? Beta tester?

Bill


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

wmccain said:



> Where do you get _your_ information? Beta tester?
> 
> Bill


From me...
Which I got from DirecTV... 1080p was a misprint/error in the publication.

As for the HR21PRO not being real.
Oh it is... and it is definently planned to be a released product.


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## Searching4signal (May 24, 2008)

Earl Bonovich said:


> From me...
> Which I got from DirecTV... 1080p was a misprint/error in the publication.
> 
> As for the HR21PRO not being real.
> Oh it is... and it is definently planned to be a released product.


Hello! First Post!

Just ordered my HR21PRO from SolidSignal.com as my HD receiver died last week. God rest its piece of crap, cheaply made, overheating soul.

Will keep yous posted on how it works out!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My System!
Pioneer Elite Pro1040HD 60" Plasma
Denon AVR-5803
HR21Pro???
Denon HDDVD
Harmony 890 remote
ADCOM5800 AMP


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## dave29 (Feb 18, 2007)

Searching4signal said:


> Hello! First Post!
> 
> Just ordered my HR21PRO from SolidSignal.com as my HD receiver died last week. God rest its piece of crap, cheaply made, overheating sole.
> 
> ...


they are nice units,, you will like it


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## rickeame (Sep 5, 2006)

Anyone know why DirecTV has not enabled the HR21 Pro for remote scheduling?


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

rickeame said:


> Anyone know why DirecTV has not enabled the HR21 Pro for remote scheduling?


It's probably an oversight. Since it uses the same software as the -200, it obviously has the capability, they just need to update the website to allow it.


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