# Folks that are having multiple reboots per Day and running into Static noise lock



## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

I have been having issues with the spontaneous reboots and the lock and scretch. I have a new unit on the way and since I won't get it for 4 weeks, I did some receiver swapping and moved to downstairs to where i have a monster power center that clean the power before it reaches the receiver. 

So far I have not had any reboot on the unit and have not had the lock scretch since the move. The other reciver that I plugged in its place, where the issues I was seeing were occuring, is working flawlessly. 

So the question I have. For the people that are running into this a lot, any body have it hooked up to a UPS or a power center and are still seeing these issues. 

I am going to let it run over the weekend and report back if the box has become stable., but I figured it would intersting to see if anyone is having this issues that have it hooked into a UPS or a power centers. Surge strips don't count and infact the tech support suggested I bypass the surge protector to see if the problem goes away.


----------



## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

Ron- just following these threads to see when the 622 is about ready for my prime time and I will order but I have a question for you-

What the hell is LOCK SCRETCH? you and only you have used it in two threads here and nobody has responded to your use of that so I can't figure out what that is. I google searched it and guess what? yep! you are the only one on google and not even the dictionary has a definition of the word "SCRETCH" There were some other uses i n the tire industry but not related and still no definition

Congratulations for coining a new word. You are in good company with the President Bush! 

So tell us what it is! please...


----------



## David-A (Feb 21, 2006)

I think power line quality has been high on E*'s suspect list for some time. A couple months ago advanced support asked me if my power was coming straight from the line or through any kind of power conditioning.

A week ago I started getting not only more rebooting on my second 622 but a couple times the mode changed on its own (like going from live into guide mode) even though no one was using any remote in the house. Since I'm in the single-TV mode and don't need the UHF remote, I unplugged the UHF remote antenna from the DVR. Not only have I not had any strange "ghost-remote" behavior, I haven't had any rebooting. Probably just coincidence. There also may be multiple causes of reboots.


----------



## David-A (Feb 21, 2006)

DonLandis said:


> Congratulations for coining a new word. You are in good company with the President Bush!


Also Shakespeare who is famous for the number of new words he coined.

I assume he means screech. However, that's not the way I would describe the sound I get when the 622 self-reboots. I get very loud pink-noise. (Pink noise is like white noise except it doesn't have equal distribution throughout the audio spectrum.) My second 622 doesn't do this, however, when it auto-reboots. Now there is no sound: a small improvement I guess.


----------



## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

Thanks David- I know what pink noise is but further search on "scretch in the tire industry, I believe is also a mispelled "stretch" Oh well, looking forward to the author's response.

BTW- maybe some of you weren't around for the first run of 921's. These also had a nasty habit of spontaneous reboots. It took E* about 9 months to eventually build a software that didn't do this. 


Thanks for all the reports here. I'm going back to monitoring the section now for improvement reports.


----------



## pwherr (Jul 14, 2004)

Ok I took the plug out of the surge protector and plugged it in to the wall outlet.I have 2 622's and only 1 does this screech,scretch,pink noise,white noise whatever the hell you want to call it crap.I will let you know if this helped.


----------



## Jeff McClellan (Apr 22, 2002)

Ron, mine is hooked to a surge protector, but not a UPS. No issues with it.


----------



## pwherr (Jul 14, 2004)

1 hour 30 min after I changed and lock up.Black screen and locked.Reboot fixed it.But 90 min. this time.


----------



## nightfly85 (Oct 6, 2005)

I have my 622 hooked up to a Monster hts3500 power center and have had these problems - but not for a whole week now.

I started to wonder if I am in the "crashes for a couple of days" camp, as it hasn't since day 3.

Power is increasingly an issue with newer HT/DVR and computer components becoming, out of necesscity more powerful to be able to handle more load (recording 3 programs at once and playing back another - that would take a very good PC to do that today)

For instance, the newer SLI motherboards and folks running multi drive raid setups, these things are power hungry and require 550w+ psu to run stabily.

If you are having issues, give Ron's idea a shot and run a line to a deadicated unloaded circuit to your 622 to see if your able to become stable, easy to do and worth a try as if you are having this problem, no replacment 622 if going to fix it.


----------



## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

Interesting theory on power supply loading- In mY HT, I have 2KW of amps for the subwoofers. These are on separate 120v lines back to main panel box and the rest of the audio and receivers/VCR/DVRs are all on another circuit with battery backup. The PJ is on yet another circuit with battery backup. So, the sub woofer amps are the culprits that would cause a fluctuating load based on audio base pulses and this being on a separate circuit is probably a good idea if the 622 is indeed way too sensitive design for it's current power supply. I doubt a software update would fix that but may need a hardware design change that would either beef up the voltage regulation in the 622 or reduce the system sensitivity to voltage fluctuations. 

I would recommend people monitor the power line voltage at the input to the 622 to see if it is jumping around. If so, I don't think a filter is going to help as power line filters are mostly high frequency filtering, not low frequency voltage regulation. The solution to put the fluctuating loads like subwoofer amps on separate circuits is just good HT design.


----------



## pwherr (Jul 14, 2004)

1 hour on the nose this time.I don't think power is the problem.


----------



## abricko (Mar 1, 2006)

I still think heat is the major contributor to (the randomness of) problems... since i've *fixed* my cooling, the major problems are gone, but the minor annoying problems are still there (which lead me to believe these are driver / software issues).... random reboots, audio sync, audio dropouts are gone... still i get the flickering occasionally... skipback / reboot fixes it for a while.


----------



## pwherr (Jul 14, 2004)

No heat problems here.It is out in the open barely warm to the touch.The one with no problems is in a closed cabinet and no reboots ever.


----------



## pwherr (Jul 14, 2004)

90 min again.Dish is just going to have to replace this POS.I was told last Mon they would get back to me and they haven't yet.I guess I will just have to be a pain.I bought both of mine so I have a chunk of change in them.


----------



## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

DonLandis said:


> Ron- just following these threads to see when the 622 is about ready for my prime time and I will order but I have a question for you-
> 
> What the hell is LOCK SCRETCH? you and only you have used it in two threads here and nobody has responded to your use of that so I can't figure out what that is. I google searched it and guess what? yep! you are the only one on google and not even the dictionary has a definition of the word "SCRETCH" There were some other uses i n the tire industry but not related and still no definition
> 
> ...


Sorry... Should have been
Lock Screech - Where the receiver locks up followed by a scretching noice (annoying but not high piched).

Typed really quickly as I was walking out the door.

Well got home and have had one reboot since the receiver was moved down. I suspect power is not a contributor but will have a better feel over the next few days. Have not gotten a Lock screech yet.

Oops.. spoke to soon. just got another one Lock Screech and actually it is not as much of a what I would call a screech as lock followed by what I would discrable as static noise. Seems a little louder than the audio.

Sorry for causing any confusion.... Lets keep it to suggestions and experience and lets leave out the bashing. I have two of these and one is performing excellent in both locations and one seems to be a lemon. Units are like night and day so lets avoid the POS like comments in the support forum guys.

By the way.. if I was not clear. The bypass of the surge protector did not work. It was a suggestion from Advance Tech support that they indicated helped some users. I did not have a lot of confidence in it, but felt needed to a least try what is suggested before RMAing my box.


----------



## pwherr (Jul 14, 2004)

I think I have a right to be upset.I spent a lot of money for it and it don't work right off the bat.If dish would put out a good product maybe I wouldn't call it a POS.It is.I will leave your forum now and not post again.


----------



## audiomaster (Jun 24, 2004)

pwherr said:


> I think I have a right to be upset.I spent a lot of money for it and it don't work right off the bat.If dish would put out a good product maybe I wouldn't call it a POS.It is.I will leave your forum now and not post again.


I suspect the first wave of bad 622s that customers/installers had to send back have been refurbished and are on the way back out to new customers due to the shortage of units. I suspect some percentage of these initially defective units will not have been completely fixed and will be "recirculated" through the system again! They are probably trying to scrounge every unit that will even light up for new customers.


----------



## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

Thanks Ron for your correction. I'm a bit relieved now that you have pointed out, actually two things. One that it is a mispelled noise burst as others suggested. And second that you have two and only one is giving you these issues. Could you define if the good one was a later model? I'm glad it doesn't appear to be a design flaw in the voltage regulation as that could be serious set back.

I'll take a back seat again and lurk a bit so I can determine when the 622 is reliable enough to schedule one for myself. I've been down the bumpy road of E* hardware now for too many years and this time, I'm happy to sit back and watch you all assist E* with working out the issues. There is a level of performance I'm looking for and hopefully it will be evident here when I jump on board. Thanks again for everyone's great work here.

PS- You as a moderator may want to correct your title on the thread.  But it was what drew me to it out of curiosity.


----------



## Jerry G (Jul 12, 2003)

DonLandis said:


> I'll take a back seat again and lurk a bit so I can determine when the 622 is reliable enough to schedule one for myself. I've been down the bumpy road of E* hardware now for too many years and this time, I'm happy to sit back and watch you all assist E* with working out the issues. There is a level of performance I'm looking for and hopefully it will be evident here when I jump on board.


Hi Don,

Your plan is certainly reasonable given the problems that have been reported. But I think there is hope.

I had one of the first 622s. It rebooted at least every one or two days. After every reboot, I noted the hardware counter (I think it was the fourth item in the counters list) incremented. I began to check it daily and found there were times it incremented when the unit was "off" and I wasn't watching.

I finally requested a replacement 622 that I received 1 1/2 weeks ago, the day before the latest software downloaded. Since then, not a single reboot. I've still checked the counters daily and neither the mini watchdog count or the hardware count has changed. Given that people are still seeing reboots with the latest software, the reboots would seem to be related to more than just software, or theoretically, I should still be having them. So I think there are differences in the hardware, and that some units are more susceptible to the reboots than others.

I still occasionally lose sound, which I fix by changing channels or turning the unit off and on again. I'm guessing (and hoping) this is a software issue. Other than this, my 622 has been very stable.

Jerry


----------



## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

Thanks for the report, Jerry. I stated in another thread I felt there are two types of bugs. tolerable ones, such as caller ID not working and inaccurate program guide data, and intolerable bugs, those that cause a disruption of the usability of the basic receiver / DVR such as reboot, fail to record. loss of audio and loss of video during your program. If the DVR reboots while you are not watching and not recording, then I would say this is a tolerable bug. So, what this means is that I would wait on the 622 until the 622 shows a high confidence ratio for not experiencing intolerable bugs. Just my opinion because my 921 is and has been free of intolerable bugs for 14 months now. Not everyone is as lucky with that technology as I have been. In my case I trust Charlie when he said good things will come to those who wait.


----------



## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

DonLandis said:


> Thanks Ron for your correction. I'm a bit relieved now that you have pointed out, actually two things. One that it is a mispelled noise burst as others suggested. And second that you have two and only one is giving you these issues. Could you define if the good one was a later model? I'm glad it doesn't appear to be a design flaw in the voltage regulation as that could be serious set back.
> 
> I'll take a back seat again and lurk a bit so I can determine when the 622 is reliable enough to schedule one for myself. I've been down the bumpy road of E* hardware now for too many years and this time, I'm happy to sit back and watch you all assist E* with working out the issues. There is a level of performance I'm looking for and hopefully it will be evident here when I jump on board. Thanks again for everyone's great work here.
> 
> PS- You as a moderator may want to correct your title on the thread.  But it was what drew me to it out of curiosity.


Don,

My other unit is a "B". I personally don't think the version has anything to do with it. I have my guesses as to what the root cause may be, but at this point they are merely guesses.

Both of my units have been sitting in the exact same location. One locks up and reboots, other does not. Problem follows the receiver. I have a new one on the way so I will report back how that one does.

And as Jerry G. pointed out, Lots of other folks have swapped out and the issues have disappeared so I think some of these ugly issues appear not software related based on the reports I have read.

Thanks again for the heads up.


----------



## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

pwherr said:


> I think I have a right to be upset.I spent a lot of money for it and it don't work right off the bat.If dish would put out a good product maybe I wouldn't call it a POS.It is.I will leave your forum now and not post again.


Never said you did not have a right to be upset and my comment was not directed at you though I used your general tone as an example. There are a few other threads that need a bit of cleaning also and I see a trend that I wanted to stop before it got common place. At the top of this forum there are a set of rules and one is no Bashing in the support forums. There are reasons for this that if you search you will find. I would be happy to outline if you like, but they can be found here. If there is a need to vent the general areas is where it should be done.

Just a general shot out to all the folks.... You guys are doing great with the feedback and helping each other.. lets just keep the comments constructive and to the point and avoid the rock throwing.

Now.. lets get back on topic


----------



## GravelChan (Jan 30, 2005)

Just a note.... I received my 622 the 5'th of April. It has never spontaniously rebooted itself. I have lost audio a couple of times, soft reboot cured it. Both times I was messing around checking out the menus etc. Has never lost audio while I was just watching something. Lost video once while it was tuned to an OTA station that was in and out due to wx, reboot fixed that also. Otherwise no problems. Much much better than the 921 it replaced. I'm a happy camper now.


----------



## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

<Going Off topic a little >

To expand on the issues I am having and why some may see it or not. From my experience there are three three main classes of bugs when creating a device like the 622. (I am sure Don and others will expand from my thoughts or totally tell me I am smoking it).

1) Hardware Defect. (Hardware design flaw)
- These type of defects may be fixed with software though the best fix is hardware based but to expedite and save cost a lot of them is done in software.

2) Software bugs. (We all know what these are)

3) Manufacture bugs. 
- These are process related defects. Maybe a chip is getting put in where a pin gets bent and make momentary contact.

All of 3 types can cause instability with the box. The 3rd type usually can't be fixed through software.

At this point it is too early to even make a guess where the issue or issues are that has lead to what some people including myself are seeing. We have seen people report that a box swap has fixed the problem and I am sure there are lots of thoughts as to what might be causing it. Just thought I would point this out to demonstrate that there are reasons why some see issues that others do not.


----------



## moman19 (Oct 22, 2004)

My 622 has never screeched. But it has locked up and rebooted all by itself. This happens every 2 or 3 days but I have been unable to pin down the cause. Ususally, I'm merely changing channels Up or Down, or hitting the GUIDE button The image will freeze solid, followed shortly by a restart.

I do lose audio on occasion. Unlike 355, pressing Skip Back does Not bring the sound back. My only option is to reboot.

I also notice that while the audio sync issue has been improved over 355, it is not 100% fixed. Sync loss becomes more apparent as the the 622 gets closer to its next lockup/restart.


----------



## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

moman19 said:


> My 622 has never screeched. But it has locked up and rebooted all by itself. This happens every 2 or 3 days but I have been unable to pin down the cause. Ususally, I'm merely changing channels Up or Down, or hitting the GUIDE button The image will freeze solid, followed shortly by a restart.
> 
> I do lose audio on occasion. Unlike 355, pressing Skip Back does Not bring the sound back. My only option is to reboot.
> 
> I also notice that while the audio sync issue has been improved over 355, it is not 100% fixed. Sync loss becomes more apparent as the the 622 gets closer to its next lockup/restart.


 That is why I do a daily reboot by 6:30pm to avoid any problems during primetime . So the unit gets its daily reboot by 3:00am and then again by me around 6:30pm. This is the only way I know of to avoid the excessive video stuttering and the audio drop outs on dolby digital sound , especially on RAVE channel.


----------



## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

Ron Barry said:


> Never said you did not have a right to be upset and my comment was not directed at you though I used your general tone as an example. There are a few other threads that need a bit of cleaning also and I see a trend that I wanted to stop before it got common place. At the top of this forum there are a set of rules and one is no Bashing in the support forums. There are reasons for this that if you search you will find. I would be happy to outline if you like, but they can be found here. If there is a need to vent the general areas is where it should be done.
> 
> Just a general shot out to all the folks.... You guys are doing great with the feedback and helping each other.. lets just keep the comments constructive and to the point and avoid the rock throwing.
> 
> Now.. lets get back on topic


Don't agree that using a term to state that something is junk is bashing. Bashing is when U tell a thing that is marginally correct or an out right lie. In this case the owners of units that reboot on their own for no reason have a right to call it what they will cuz it is what it is doing to them. So if you are not having the problems then realize we that are having problems have a much shorter fuse than those that are not having bad luck.


----------



## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

whatchel1,

First off... Just for the record, I am having those problems with one of my 622s and I was the one that started the thread to see if there was a correlation between the issue and power feeds. I have since come to the conclusion power is not the cause.

2nd, the definition of bashing I use is from Websters.

"to attack physically or verbally"

3rd, as a moderator part of my responsibility is to make judgment calls and to keep the support forums as bash free and clear of rock throwing as possible.

This is stated in the support forum rules.. See link below.

http://www.dbstalk.com/announcement.php?f=107&a=60

4th.

Everyone's fuse is a different length and I am aware of the frustration that a user can have. Been there done that and also since I am a software developer I know the other side of the fence. Like I stated earlier if you want to vent and start rock throwing at Dish due it in the general forums. Those forums are not as heavily moderated than the support areas.

Bashing, even out of frustration, is not allowed in the support forums. There are reasons for this and if not apparent I will be happy to go over them again. Main one being.. If you were a developer and had to wade through rocks to read what experiences would you stick around long and would you spend much time here. I am a developer and I know I would not.

We want these areas to be where users can help users and Dish can read what users are experiencing. Does this mean you cannot criticism the 622? nope read the areas and there is plenty of criticism. But saying things like the 622 is the worse product since the dawn of time or who wrote the 622 software a bunch of kids in high school will not be allowed. Criticism can be done without tossing a rock toward Dish. I understand that a person can be frustrated and would want Dish to know their frustration. But if you cant do that without tossing a rock toward Dish, do it in the general area. Simple as that and as moderators it is our job to make those type of judgment calls.

Hope This clarifies what I am talking about.... If not, PM me and I will be happy to clarify why we have the rules here that we do. This is Mike and Rob's forum so if you guys feel differently than I do by all means step in and correct me.


----------



## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

Ron I support your efforts to maintain a degree of decorum in the support forums. I have been guilty of bashing myself when frustrated but I do strive to be specific and informative but sometimes in frustration I have strayed into the gray zone of "bashing" 
for example, I believe if I say that a product is a POS or junk or that the developers are all incompetent, have no business introducing a product (or other derogatory adjective / adverb I would certainly be bashing. But to state that a specific product has a flaw that is causing it to be unusable. I call these "intolerable bugs" I believe is stating my observations and then stating my intentions (not purchasing) until these intolerable bugs were mostly fixed. 

I have been accused of bashing the E* beta program in the past. Furthermore, I have been accused of bashing certain members of the beta program for being incompetent. I believe these accusations were all misunderstanding, or worse people reading between the lines and making up stuff I never said or even intended to say. I always felt the E* beta program was not run properly, that members of it have confided in me that they do not get feedback, that the program was too little and not well specified. Some of these things have changed but maybe it was because of the so called "bashing" I and a few others may have done in the interest of trying to improve things. 
I think you wear a tough hat as Moderator but do a pretty fine job of it. Sometimes you can't really define bashing but you know when that was the intent. Sometimes you might make a mistake, but I think it can be seen when nothing specific is offered but just general derogatory comments. For me that would be the deciding factor between bashing and attempting to point out a serious flaw or speculate a cause to a flaw. 
Finally, people need to understand that these sections here are for discussion of issues and work-rounds. We are all here to help each other. BUT, dbstalks does offer other sections, as you stated, where one can go and make a general vent of frustration. Often I have seen Moderators here move a post like that to the other area with a note they did that. Maybe a little more of that practice is what is called for here to keep this place "heavily moderated" as is claimed. To just delete and censor is to say a rule was violated for the general forum. Calling equipment a POS, junk may not be that far, but does warrant a boot out of this section, IMHO.


----------



## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Don You provided a good example of what I would consider bashing and what I would consider not bashing. Your first statement would be removed from here, the second one would stay. Nothing wrong with stating that you feel the bug level is too high or to manin intolerable bugs to make the jump. There is a big difference in the two statements. One is more directed towards Dish the other is stating a personal opinion and experiences. 

Yes we have discussed this issue in the past and you have brought up some excellent points. Some I have agreed with and some I have not. Nothing wrong with that and that is what this board is about. From reading your post above you obviously have a good handle on what we are trying to accomplish with these forums. 

As for moving the posts. Yes that is most certainly and option and one that I have done myself on a number of occassions. However, sometimes it is not possible without a lot of work given how the thread ratholes. In this case a cleansing usually occurs and the orginator of the ratholes is PMed and a I usually put a comment to let others know why I removed the posts. Contrary to what some my think, we try and keep the Censorship here to a minimum, but like the rules say this area is heavily moderatored. 

What we did for the 622 area was upon the initial release we relaxed the area because lots of people had install questions and had a lot of issues just getting their 622s. We felt this served the users of the board the best. Well now that the 2nd wave has happend, I felt it was time get back to what this area is for and to to keep it up to the level of what the forum rules where set up to do. 

Nothing personal here. just trying to minimize the amount of posts we as moderator have to deal with. It does take time to move inappropriate posts and when removed to explain our rational. 

Thanks for understanding and lets get back on track here...


----------



## Rob Glasser (Feb 22, 2005)

Ron Barry said:


> This is Mike and Rob's forum so if you guys feel differently than I do by all means step in and correct me.


I know I agree with Ron.

This forum is for ViP622 technical support, we all need to make sure we keep the posts in line with the scope of the forum:



> First, this is a support forum for the ViP622 DVR. It is a highly moderated forum, to be used only for general discussion, bug reporting, and features requests related to the ViP622 DVR.
> 
> There are other forums here at DBSTalk.com for general Dish Network comments, questions, HD content, and other receiver models. Please post them in the appropriate forum. Keep all posts in this forum related to ViP622 DVR as this forum is intended to support ViP622 DVR customers.


Obviously some of us have been experiencing on-going issues with our ViP622s, our orders, and our installs. We appreciate the posts detailing these issues, and listing your frustrations. It makes sense that not all of us have been happy with the results. Let's just make sure we keep the bashing out of it and stick to constructive criticism and detailed descriptions. I think the examples that Don Landis posted covered it well,

This would be bashing:



> ... a product is a POS or junk or that the developers are all incompetent, have no business introducing a product (or other derogatory adjective / adverb ...


This would not:



> ... a specific product has a flaw that is causing it to be unusable. I call these "intolerable bugs" I believe is stating my observations and then stating my intentions (not purchasing) until these intolerable bugs were mostly fixed.


I would also like to thank all the members and other moderators that are contributing on this forum, it's been a great help to many members. Let's keep up the good work. All in all, this has been an easy forum to moderate.


----------

