# ? Dish HD expansion plans



## unc8185 (Jun 25, 2006)

DirecTV is talking about 100 or 150 new HD channels by sometimes next year. Dish has been very content to talk about its current advantage in the number of HD channels. Does Dish have any announced plans or intent to match DirecTV? The DirecTV promise may be enough to keep me with them. However, I would love to have more channels both now and later.

Thanks!


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Dish has more National HD right now than DirecTV.

DirecTV is launching some satellites this year to have more capacity that *could* possibly be used for HD.

Dish has capacity right now to add more HD... BUT...

There just isn't that much HD to add right now, nationally. Many (most) of the promised HD channels from DirecTV do not yet exist. Some say they will launch near the end of 2007, others say early 2008... and a few of them were completely surprised when DirecTV announced plans to carry their currently non-existent HD channels! 

Bottom line... Unless and until there are a bunch more national HD channels, and DirecTV adds them... then I am not worried as a Dish customer.

A year from now, if DirecTV has more HD than Dish... THEN and only then will this be a valid concern for Dish customers.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Nothing announced. No promises to break.

Read D*'s promises carefully ... they started by saying 100 channels, but only said that once ... now it is all capacity (which E* has much more of than D*) and it appears they may even fudge the numbers by including regional HD in their national HD counts.

E* has couched their comments in "we hope" and "we expect" ... the HD locals planned for last year have quietly not been uplinked and HD RSNs which were hoped to be available "very very soon" also have not appeared. It looks like now E* have simply stopped making promises. A smart move.

Personally I'd stick with what I have, whether it be E* or D*. They both have their benefits and eventually the tables will level on the HD comparison.


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## Radio Enginerd (Oct 5, 2006)

James Long said:


> Nothing announced. No promises to break.
> 
> Read D*'s promises carefully ... they started by saying 100 channels, but only said that once ... now it is all capacity (which E* has much more of than D*) and it appears they may even fudge the numbers by including regional HD in their national HD counts.
> 
> ...


I was a long time Dish customer and I certainly didn't leave Dish to go to DTV for HD. The reading I've done doesn't just make promises of more capacity but makes reference to agreements in place with content providers. Since they're pitching their capacity they're likely, for a short time, to have more compelling HD content.

With what's been said in this thread sounds as though Dish already has this capacity. If so, why wouldn't Dish make a business decision to get that much further ahead and start these talks? Are they already in motion? Please excuse my ignorance when it comes to E*'s business model.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

D*'s content providers, who are not providing HD to anyone at the moment, seem to be more "agreements in concept". Perhaps those providers will have HD available to D* (and others) by the end of the year, perhaps not. D* needs to be careful not to promise what cannot be delivered at any cost - networks that may not exist.


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## grooves12 (Oct 27, 2005)

This is all just empty promises... I don't remember the exact wording, but DirecTV made VERY similar promises in 2006, and they added what 2 HD channels during that year.

I have been saying it all along, but I will be VERY surprised if DirecTV adds 10 National HD channels this year that are not mirrored content of other timeslots. IE: HBO HD East/West, Sho HD East/West


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## tomcrown1 (Jan 16, 2006)

D* promise of 100 HD channels include all local hd RSN HD and all HBO SHOWTIME STAR HD east and west etc.(along with Zoom which D* will get soon)


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

tomcrown1 said:


> D* promise of 100 HD channels include all local hd RSN HD and all HBO SHOWTIME STAR HD east and west etc.(along with Zoom which D* will get soon)


I know that D* has announced all the HD premiums and I think they are taking the HD RSNs to national beam, so the first part of your message is pretty much confirmed.

For the last part of your post I assume you mean "Voom." Is there a source for this information?


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## tomcrown1 (Jan 16, 2006)

paulman182 said:


> I know that D* has announced all the HD premiums and I think they are taking the HD RSNs to national beam, so the first part of your message is pretty much confirmed.
> 
> For the last part of your post I assume you mean "Voom." Is there a source for this information?


yes I mean Voom err Zoom er garabage er here is one source
http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/01/13/directv-in-talks-to-buy-voom/


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I don't know what the DirecTV agreements to carry HD channels from providers if/when they launch actually means... They couldn't really have negotiated fees to pay those channels because who knows when it would launch? The channel wouldn't want to lock in now for a rate, then launch their channel in 2008 and find they need/want more money! Similarly DirecTV wouldn't want to lock now, then see the channel launch in 2008 and realize it isn't worth what they agreed to pay.

So I can't believe their "agreement" is much more than an agreement to talk to those channels in good faith if/when the channels get closer to launch time.

Dish would appear to be taking the more rational and business-conscious approach of waiting until the channel looks like it is actually about to exist before making agreements with the provider.


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## Mikey (Oct 26, 2004)

HDMe said:


> I don't know what the DirecTV agreements to carry HD channels from providers if/when they launch actually means... They couldn't really have negotiated fees to pay those channels because who knows when it would launch? The channel wouldn't want to lock in now for a rate, then launch their channel in 2008 and find they need/want more money! Similarly DirecTV wouldn't want to lock now, then see the channel launch in 2008 and realize it isn't worth what they agreed to pay.
> 
> So I can't believe their "agreement" is much more than an agreement to talk to those channels in good faith if/when the channels get closer to launch time.
> 
> Dish would appear to be taking the more rational and business-conscious approach of waiting until the channel looks like it is actually about to exist before making agreements with the provider.


Oh, I dunno. If the channel is a HD simulcast of an existing channel (like NGHD), then the D* approach might be appropriate.

But if it was me negociating, I'd try to get an agreement on some minimum level of HD content per day, maybe 50% or more.


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## INHUMANITY (Aug 8, 2005)

tomcrown1 said:


> yes I mean Voom err Zoom er garabage er here is one source
> http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/01/13/directv-in-talks-to-buy-voom/


From that link:

HD will set them apart from the other providers and have agreements in principle with more than 70 national networks, including CNN, *USA*, *Sci Fi*, Weather Channel, Food Network, TBS, *Cartoon Network*, Speed, FX and all Premium Services.

I want those channels in HD. Will it happen anytime soon? I seriously doubt it. :lol:


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## Wu-Infinite (Mar 24, 2007)

If D* is trying to purchase Voom, would that mean if they are successful that they would then take the Voom networks away from E*? I hardly watch this channels, but D* could really hurt E* by taking away those 15 HD networks!


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

E* is a part investor in Voom, and likely has an unbreakable contract to carry the channels. E* won't be losing Voom.


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

It is D* advertising vaporware. As far as Voom to buy it out they would have to buy out E*'s share of Voom. I think that it would be unlikely to happen. Now Voom might be available to D* as some point but doubr that it would be owned by D*. I don't consider TVPredictions that reliable of a source. They have said many things that have not happened. But that is the nature of predicting about the TV industry.


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## Mr.72 (Feb 2, 2007)

I kind of dig some of the Voom channels. I like Rave and RushHD. I occasionally look at the Film Festival channel and also World Cinema. So that's a pretty high ratio of watchable channels for me, taking 2 out of 15. I would be ecstatic if I watched two of every 15 channels I am paying for. That would be 33 channels! Yeah right! We watch about 10 channels out of the 250+ we pay for and two of those are Voom.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

tomcrown1 said:


> yes I mean Voom err Zoom er garabage er here is one source
> http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/01/13/directv-in-talks-to-buy-voom/


It took me a while to chase that one down. This was a fourth party story that didn't get all of the names right.

The link is a comment on an article posted on TVPredictions.com that was a comment on an article that was published in the New York Post.

The Post story was that Liberty Media was in negotiations with Cablevision for Rainbow Media. Liberty media is soon to become the parent company of DirecTV.

To suggest that DirecTV is or was negotiating to buy Voom was poor journalism.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

whatchel1 said:


> As far as Voom to buy it out they would have to buy out E*'s share of Voom.


Do you have any evidence that confirms that E* has _any_ share in Rainbow Media? It would appear that Rainbow HD Holdings LLC is a wholly owned subsidiary of Cablevision Systems Corporation.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

E* has invested in Voom ... they don't own any part of Rainbow Media (which owns a lot more than Voom) they just have a 20% investment in the Voom channels.

It is two years back to find the discussion on this.


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## dclaryjr (Mar 11, 2007)

Mr.72 said:


> I kind of dig some of the Voom channels. I like Rave and RushHD. I occasionally look at the Film Festival channel and also World Cinema.


Glad to see there is someone who thinks that in a sea of Voom slammers. We watch Equator quite a bit although I will admit we're probably reaching a point where we will have to stop for awhile because we've seen just about everything that's in the current rotation. I use to watch concerts on INHD when I had cable so Rave is a good substitute for that. I have also watched several of the Rush programs and some of the movies on World. So considering my net increase for HD from Time-Warner to E* was $10, I feel like I'm getting a pretty good return on my investment, and a good portion of that is Voom programming.


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## Dave (Jan 29, 2003)

Actually one of the DTV Senior Executives has stated within the past week or so, that DTV is getting more content soon and such content will be outstanding or better than the VOOM Channels. He talked down the VOOM Channels as if they didn't exist. Go figure. So unless he wants to eat his words, then I would not expect DTV to get the VOOM Channels anytime real soon.


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## RealityCheck (Apr 3, 2007)

Sorry for asking all of the E* experts to get this back on topic - but it is not about D*, it is asking for what E*'s plans are - but it seems that all of the E* fans have chosen to talk down what D*'s announced plans are instead of offering what was asked for in the OP.

Is there any reason for the lack of on-topic answers?


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

RealityCheck said:


> Is there any reason for the lack of on-topic answers?


Post #3 answered the question. The rest of the comments address the issue of the relative value of announced HD plans.


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## RealityCheck (Apr 3, 2007)

harsh said:


> Post #3 answered the question. The rest of the comments address the issue of the relative value of announced HD plans.


oh - I get it. 1 paragraph on-topic - that allows for D* bashing in all the other posts. got you. nice to see you in a echostar forum for a change harsh.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

RealityCheck said:


> oh - I get it. 1 paragraph on-topic - that allows for D* bashing in all the other posts. got you. nice to see you in a echostar forum for a change harsh.


The original topic raised the question of "what are Dish's HD expansion plans" relative to the announced plans from DirecTV.

I think that (to use legalese) opens itself to cross-examination 

If the sole basis for asking about Dish's plans is relative to DirecTV's announcements... then one simply must take into account the vaporware nature of DirecTV's plans.

IF the question were simply "what does Dish have in the works" then I would agree that mention of DirecTV would be off-topic... but the original post put DirecTV front and center.


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## Mikey (Oct 26, 2004)

E* makes plans (I think). They just don't announce them. Like the RSN HD channels that lit up this week.


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

Oh really. Just go to their website and check out the press releases. They announce plenty of their plans. They also did announce last year that they would light 60 markets for HD lils in 2006 - they got that only 46% complete. 27 at end of 06. Not bad.


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## dbconsultant (Sep 13, 2005)

dclaryjr said:


> Glad to see there is someone who thinks that in a sea of Voom slammers. We watch Equator quite a bit although I will admit we're probably reaching a point where we will have to stop for awhile because we've seen just about everything that's in the current rotation. I use to watch concerts on INHD when I had cable so Rave is a good substitute for that. I have also watched several of the Rush programs and some of the movies on World. So considering my net increase for HD from Time-Warner to E* was $10, I feel like I'm getting a pretty good return on my investment, and a good portion of that is Voom programming.





Mr.72 said:


> I kind of dig some of the Voom channels. I like Rave and RushHD. I occasionally look at the Film Festival channel and also World Cinema. So that's a pretty high ratio of watchable channels for me, taking 2 out of 15. I would be ecstatic if I watched two of every 15 channels I am paying for. That would be 33 channels! Yeah right! We watch about 10 channels out of the 250+ we pay for and two of those are Voom.


We also like the Monster channel in addition to Rave, Rush and Equator!


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

ScoBuck said:


> Oh really. Just go to their website and check out the press releases. They announce plenty of their plans. They also did announce last year that they would light 60 markets for HD lils in 2006 - they got that only 46% complete. 27 at end of 06. Not bad.


I'm getting bored w/ your repetition of this thru out the threads (Mr. D* owner).


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

If you're bored you can always watch TV ...


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

James Long said:


> It is two years back to find the discussion on this.


I looked back to February 2005 and found some messages where you were vigorously chastising someone for claiming that Echostar had a connection with Voom.


JL said:


> There is NO CONNECTION between the future existance of Voom and E* (except to the extent that E*'s purchase of V*'s satellite platform and 61.5 DBS licenses do cast a shadow on V*'s future).
> 
> JL


Later in May 2005, JohnL mentioned that Dish had a "minority ownership stake" in Voom, but didn't offer any supporting information.

Bingo! There is a Denver Post article from a 2007 CES interview that mentions that "EchoStar holds a minority interest in Voom".


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

I knew it had come up recently ... Thanks for finding the article.

As far as the older post, it was likely made before the announcement that some Voom channels were going to be on Dish. Voom as a DBS carrier did go out of business and E* picked up the original content channels.

I wish I could find the posts from 2005 that support the ownership issue (I said it in February 2006 here) ... I found one reference back in May 2005 that referred to a investor's conference call. It is one of those things that became common knowledge then got forgotten.


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## rbaggio00 (Mar 22, 2007)

Ok just because Direct said HD does not mean TRUE HD, i was talking to a dish Netowork a few weeks ago about ne HD channels and thy said that dish is working on Broadcasting all Channels in HD, so maybe that is what Direct is talking about, you can have alot o HD channels but only a few shows, just look at A&E on dish everytime i look at it its never HD... so lets take t easy on direct TV adding HD.


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

James Long said:


> If you're bored you can always watch TV ...


I do this & watch HDTV. I multi-task. Bored w/ his statements not what I'm watching on TV.


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## RealityCheck (Apr 3, 2007)

whatchel1 said:


> I'm getting bored w/ your repetition of this thru out the threads (Mr. D* owner).


Are you getting bored with his post on this - or is it that you are really pissed at DISH that the info he gave is 100% accurate?

Time for your RealityCheck I'm afraid.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

RealityCheck said:


> Are you getting bored with his post on this - or is it that you are really pissed at DISH that the info he gave is 100% accurate?
> 
> Time for your RealityCheck I'm afraid.


I for one am not bored with his posts... but I don't understand the motivation. He seems to be a happy DirecTV customer, so why can't he be happy and move on? I'm a happy Dish customer, and I see no need to go all over DirecTV forums and ask sarcastic questions about parts of their service that I know to be inferior to Dish.

Each service has plusses and minuses. These are forums to discuss things... but if all the guy wants to do is pour salt in wounds, I see no point in that discussion as it gains absolutely nothing for anyone.


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

First I asked NO question - sarcastic or otherwise. I simply responded to a posters comments that I believe to be erroneous 
- I in fact read many press releases and other info that DISH puts out concerning their plans. Just because the factual information I posted disturbs you, should in no way stop it from being posted.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Gentlemen, talk about DBS, not each other. Thanks!

:backtotop


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Well that didn't work ...

Since this thread turned into a war the thread is being closed.
The warring parties can take their battle to PMs and emails, if they want.


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