# Programs with Judder / Motion Issues



## akopperl (Nov 4, 2006)

I own an HR54 and C61K. I added a 4TB hard drive (Western Digital WD40EZRX) docked in a Thermaltake BlacX to the HR54. 

I recently began experiencing playback issues (on both playback devices) specific to the HBO channels. When I watch shows on HBO - in particular original programming like Togetherness, etc. - the shows at times become difficult to watch as the motion becomes very jerky, regardless of the motion settings on my TV. I have both DirecTV units set to Native On and my AVR does not process the video signal which is then fed into my TV which deinterlaces and upscales the image to 4K.

When I watch shows on any other channel, the video plays back just fine - even at 1080i60 which is the format for the HBO programs.

Has anyone else experienced an issue like this? Very frustrating as it makes no sense to me and has become very distracting while watching HBO content.


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## Wyannuzzi (Feb 11, 2012)

I currently only record Vinyl on HBO and have the same issue. I end up watching it on demand or on HBOGO. Very frustrating, I hope Game of Thrones doesn't have same issue.


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## jclangston (Oct 19, 2010)

akopperl said:


> I own an HR54 and C61K. I added a 4TB hard drive (Western Digital WD40EZRX) docked in a Thermaltake BlacX to the HR54.
> 
> I recently began experiencing playback issues (on both playback devices) specific to the HBO channels. When I watch shows on HBO - in particular original programming like Togetherness, etc. - the shows at times become difficult to watch as the motion becomes very jerky, regardless of the motion settings on my TV. I have both DirecTV units set to Native On and my AVR does not process the video signal which is then fed into my TV which deinterlaces and upscales the image to 4K.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately this issues has been going on for a while. I have been noticing it for over a year on several of the premium channels, and I agree its extremely frustrating! I seems like every time I find a movie I really want to watch it will be so jittery I can't stand to watch it. I haven't tracked or documented this, but it seems like the channels that it occurs on tend to be random. One day Starz will be good the next its jittery and jerky.

Akopperl, I don't think this has anything to do with your setup. I have seen more than one thread about this issue.


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## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

Widely reported issue. Seems to be something to do with the conversion of the video from 24fps before it's sent to DirecTV. Does not happen with non-24fps sources like commercials or "coming soon" segments.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

akopperl said:


> I own an HR54 and C61K. I added a 4TB hard drive (Western Digital WD40EZRX) docked in a Thermaltake BlacX to the HR54.
> 
> I recently began experiencing playback issues (on both playback devices) specific to the HBO channels. When I watch shows on HBO - in particular original programming like Togetherness, etc. - the shows at times become difficult to watch as the motion becomes very jerky, regardless of the motion settings on my TV. I have both DirecTV units set to Native On and _*my AVR does not process the video signal which is then fed into my TV which deinterlaces and upscales the image to 4K.*_
> 
> ...


Just two quick questions: Brand and model # of TV? Your AVR isn't 4K ready? I'm not sure what you meant by the phrase highlighted in red above.

Rich


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## Delroy E Walleye (Jun 9, 2012)

Here's one of the other threads discussing this issue:

http://www.dbstalk.com/topic/220717-experiencing-movie-channel-skipping/

To me, it looks like D* have bumped-up "stat muxing" or compression rate (or both) to the point it just can't be easily decoded properly for smooth playback. Time to back it off!!

Sometimes, "futzing" with the remote FF, replay, RW pause/play can get it to play smoothly, then don't touch the remote 'till the program is over. Too bad this happens on *premium* channels, where otherwise PQ has been historically fairly decent for the most part.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Delroy E Walleye said:


> To me, it looks like D* have bumped-up "stat muxing" or compression rate (or both) to the point it just can't be easily decoded properly for smooth playback. Time to back it off!!


What doesn't make sense to me is that Directv had been doing six HD channels per transponder for a while and dropped down to five last year on some where they had more popular channels like ESPN. For some reason HBO is on one with six, you'd think since it is an important premium it would be one of the ones with five, especially if they are having problems like this.

If it isn't Directv's problem it should be happening on Dish and cable too...I have no idea if that's the case because I don't get HBO. However, when there was a free preview on my cable system last fall I recorded a few movies from HBO on my Tivo and didn't notice any such issues, unless it started more recently than that.

It could be sort of a combination of both. Something coming from HBO like texasbrit says, but something that only affects the decoder chips used in Directv receivers (and maybe a few others out there) so may not be seen on other providers much. If that's the case I could understand why it doesn't get fixed - HBO would say it is Directv's problem and Directv would say it is HBO's fault. :bang


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## Beerstalker (Feb 9, 2009)

Does this happen on all of the HBO channels or just the main channel (501 I believe)?

Does it happen on other premium channels?

Does it happen to live TV, or just recordings?

Does it happen on the TV hooked up to the C61K and the one hooked up to the HR54, or just one of them?


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## jclangston (Oct 19, 2010)

Beerstalker said:


> Does this happen on all of the HBO channels or just the main channel (501 I believe)?
> 
> Does it happen on other premium channels?
> 
> ...


It tends to happen randomly on all the premium channels at different times. In my estimate I would say I see the jitter and jumpiness about 30% of the time I pick a movie channel

It doesn't matter if the show is recorded or live, it doesn't have anything to do with the DVR. If the jitter is there it shows up either way.

I don't have 4K equipment yet so I can't answer the last question.


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## akopperl (Nov 4, 2006)

Rich said:


> Just two quick questions: Brand and model # of TV? Your AVR isn't 4K ready? I'm not sure what you meant by the phrase highlighted in red above.
> 
> Rich
> 
> Rich


I just meant that the signal goes from the DVR or C61K directly to my AVR which is set to video bypass. Therefore, any video processing is done by the TV. Both my AVR and TV are HDMI 2.0A HDCDP 2.2 compliant.


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## akopperl (Nov 4, 2006)

Delroy E Walleye said:


> Here's one of the other threads discussing this issue:
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/topic/220717-experiencing-movie-channel-skipping/
> 
> ...


Sorry, I didn't realize that this issue was previously reported.

It's extremely frustrating that this has been going on for quite some time and hasn't been addressed. I think that we all pay a lot of money for the service and the minimum requirement is a nice, stable picture. At this point, I can't enjoy any programming on HBO. The motion issues are too distracting. It's pretty evident on 501, 502 and 503 for me. For all I know, other channels may be affected as well.

I am going to try to watch an HBO program On Demand as one of the previous members suggested.


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## Eben (Sep 10, 2007)

Not a cure-all, but sometimes when I'm watching programming that suffers from judder, I hit the "back track" button/rewind a few seconds and then hit play (watching slightly back in the buffer) and often the judder is either gone or lessened.


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## hancox (Jun 23, 2004)

Oddly enough, I've seen this on non-premiums, and even more interestingly, OTA. If anything, OTA gets it most frequently, followed by TNT and a few others.


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## Jammasterd (Jul 6, 2006)

Rocky V or whatever it was was real bad with the judder today, this was 1080i. 
When I switched to 720p it was fine. 
This was either Encore or Showtime.


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## akopperl (Nov 4, 2006)

Has this issue been brought to DirecTV's attention? I've had DirecTV for over 10 years and this is the first time I've experienced this issue on so many channels, every day. My wife just complained that she had to switch away from Fish Called Wanda due to all of the motion issues.

If this continues for an extended period of time, may have to switch to another provider like Dish.


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## CraigerM (Apr 15, 2014)

I noticed it on a few programs when people are walking they studder.


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## hancox (Jun 23, 2004)

Eben said:


> Not a cure-all, but sometimes when I'm watching programming that suffers from judder, I hit the "back track" button/rewind a few seconds and then hit play (watching slightly back in the buffer) and often the judder is either gone or lessened.


I've seen this too.


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## Rhythmx (Aug 25, 2006)

I just had the same issue with Fear the Walking Dead this Sunday. Was almost unwatchable. Stuttered like crazy. Commercials played fine.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

akopperl said:


> I just meant that the signal goes from the DVR or C61K directly to my AVR which is set to video bypass. Therefore, any video processing is done by the TV. Both my AVR and TV are HDMI 2.0A HDCDP 2.2 compliant.


Again, it would be helpful to know what set you have and what model.

Rich


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

akopperl said:


> I own an HR54 and C61K. I added a 4TB hard drive (Western Digital WD40EZRX) docked in a Thermaltake BlacX to the HR54.
> 
> I recently began experiencing playback issues (on both playback devices) specific to
> the HBO channels. When I watch shows on HBO - in particular original programming like Togetherness, etc. - the shows at times become difficult to watch as the motion becomes very jerky, regardless of the motion settings on my TV. I have both DirecTV units set to Native On and my AVR does not process the video signal which is then fed into my TV which deinterlaces and upscales the image to 4K.
> ...


First, the format is 1080i30. The 30 refers to frames. 1080i uses 60 fields, interlaced to 30 frames. But nearly all sat HD is in this format, other than NFL, ABC, FOX, MyTV, ESPN, and a few others, possibly, so it is unlikely that 1080i is the problem. The HR54 and HDD/dock are unlikely to be at fault. Also, compression and 3:2 pulldown are unlikely to be at fault, so whether something is originally 24fps or not is unlikely to be a part of this problem. 3:2 pulldown judder is annoying, but not that annoying, and we grew up with it so engrained that we actually think there is something wrong when its not there! (soap opera effect) All filmed shows in the SD era had this. I think the judder you are talking about it probably something different, and much worse, than that.

There is a similar issue when trying to Airplay VNC shows from my computer through an AppleTV. It judders so bad that it jerks the picture significantly about 3 times a second. I have to convert MKV to iTunes format and play them there to avoid it. So while that is different, I feel your pain, and it is a similar sort of problem. In the case of Apple, it is an artifact built into Airplay.

So my best guess is this is an artifact created during the upscaling. It would be nice to know if other setups both using 4K upscaling and those that don't, have similar issues. This is the exact reason why I don't have 4K yet (not really ready for prime time--talk to me next December). All I know for sure is that HBO directly played back in HD from a DVR to a HDTV, does not have this issue.

4K is not yet mature; currently still 'under construction'. I'm sure HBO will fix this at some point, as the 4K audience grows. But don't hold your breath quite yet.

Other than Amanda Peet flashing us (I need a gif of that) I found _Togetherness_ difficult to watch, also. Just for different reasons.


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## txfeinbergs (Nov 16, 2005)

Bringing this thread back from the dead after spending multiple hours thinking this was tied to my new TV. This happens horribly on Blindspot and The Black List among other local channel shows on DirecTV.... and yes, it appears to be tied to 24 fps shows. Anyone have any newer info on this?


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## Gordon Shumway (Jul 25, 2013)

I've started seeing the problem as well. Saw it on a month old Samsung KS8000 being fed from an HR44. I had all of the ABC show Designated Survivor episodes recorded, and began watching them. Maybe I wasn't paying close enough attention to the first episodes, but it seemed like about the third episode it got real jittery. It was pretty bad, and seemed quire random. IOW it wasn't just fast movement causing it, but rather just general jittering. The rest of the episodes were also quite bad.

I haven't seen this on live or recorded TV like news or sports, nor have I seen it on recorded "reality" shows like everything on Velocity. I noticed it to a lesser degree on another recorded ABC series last night.

I plan to do some experimenting with the next bad show I see like 4K vs. HD TV for the same recording, Native ON vs.Native OFF, etc. I currently have Native OFF as the 4K TV gets the final say on upconverting no matter ON or OFF, so I just opted for quicker channel changes. Unfortunately I deleted those bad episodes I had too quickly.

I'm reluctant to blame the TV too quickly. Consumer Reports had this particular 49" TV rated highest in its class (46" to 52"), with excellent ratings for both HD picture & motion blur. Hard to imagine they would have missed this problem in their testing, if it was a generic problem with the TV.


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## txfeinbergs (Nov 16, 2005)

I was too quick to blame the new TV also. My previous TV was a Samsung and I wonder if it covered up the issue somehow. My current TV is a LG OLED and every defect in the source is very apparent on this thing (it is also larger than the Samsung which makes seeing bad sources even easier.). Honestly, I can live with it now that I know it isn't the TV. I assume someone at AT&T might actually bother to fix this someday and since it only occurs on certain shows / channels, I will grin and bare it. (FYI, almost all TV scripted shows are shot at 24 FPS which aggravates the issue). Sports, news, and reality TV shows are shot at 60 FPS and hence the problem is not seen with those (or commercials!).


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## Pete Johnson (Jan 24, 2018)

Just got an HR54 and noticed this last nite on the TNT NBA broadcast. Worked fine through Firestick but not the same quality.


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