# HD DVR Copy Protection?



## jericho (May 29, 2002)

I have a 612 DVR and ran into an interesting and maybe alarming situation today. My wife records Rachel Ray on our local NBC station during daytime, but today the DVR event was blank. It showed 1 hour of record in the DVR window but when played there was nothing recorded, it would just flash back to the DVR menu. 

Then tonight during the debates, I was watching again on the local NBC affiliate. At one point I tried to rewind but it wouldn't let me. When I pushed the rewind button it would just go to pause. Then when I hit play it would skip back to live TV. 

So in other words on my local NBC station, there is no recording, rewinding or time shifting of any kind available whatsoever! I haven't found any other channel doing this, just channel 4 KFOR. (my local Oklahoma City NBC affiliate) Is this channel being copy protected? If so, how is that possible and who is in control of this happening? NBC? The local station? I've heard of copy protection on some premium movie channels but is this happening to anyone else on network channels? This is huge as I now won't be able to record any NBC programming, prime time or otherwise.


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## mengel (Oct 27, 2007)

jericho said:


> I have a 612 DVR and ran into an interesting and maybe alarming situation today. My wife records Rachel Ray on our local NBC station during daytime, but today the DVR event was blank. It showed 1 hour of record in the DVR window but when played there was nothing recorded, it would just flash back to the DVR menu.
> 
> Then tonight during the debates, I was watching again on the local NBC affiliate. At one point I tried to rewind but it wouldn't let me. When I pushed the rewind button it would just go to pause. Then when I hit play it would skip back to live TV.
> 
> So in other words on my local NBC station, there is no recording, rewinding or time shifting of any kind available whatsoever! I haven't found any other channel doing this, just channel 4 KFOR. (my local Oklahoma City NBC affiliate) Is this channel being copy protected? If so, how is that possible and who is in control of this happening? NBC? The local station? I've heard of copy protection on some premium movie channels but is this happening to anyone else on network channels? This is huge as I now won't be able to record any NBC programming, prime time or otherwise.


Things like this are sometimes cleared up by a simple reboot of your dvr. Perhaps, after your nightly reboot at 3:00am, you will be fine. Try those same recordings again.


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## garys (Nov 4, 2005)

HD DVR copy protection occurs when you try to record via the HDMI output to a computer or dvd recorder. The dvr recording nothing but black is caused by some other problem. The nightly reload or a reboot could fix it and maybe even bring back the program to be viewed.


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## jericho (May 29, 2002)

It is still doing the same thing this morning. Only the one channel (channel 4 NBC) and the recordings are not black screen, they are just zero second files which flash back immediately to the DVR menu when you click them. 

Is there anyone else from the Oklahoma City DMA who gets KFOR channel 4, who can record that channel's HD feed on a Dish receiver? Particularly on a 612?


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## patmurphey (Dec 21, 2006)

OTA or Satellite feed for that local?


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## bjwilson (Feb 14, 2008)

With the not being able to back up/rewind issue, are you sure you were watching live TV and not playback from the buffer? My kids pause the TV all the time and then leave, and when the buffer is full it starts playing from when the pause button was pressed. As it plays it automatically clears the buffer behind the play point to make room from the live TV that is still being recorded, so you can't back up. Is it possible this is what happened?


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## jericho (May 29, 2002)

It is a Satellite Feed. I'm positive its not the buffer. I've gone to other channels and come back to channel 4 and its only doing this on channel 4. I have never seen anything like this. If its copy protection, look out, your local might be next.


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## bobukcat (Dec 20, 2005)

jericho said:


> It is a Satellite Feed. I'm positive its not the buffer. I've gone to other channels and come back to channel 4 and its only doing this on channel 4. I have never seen anything like this. If its copy protection, look out, your local might be next.


Did you try going to the OKC DMA site at AVSForum and see if anyone else is reporting this? You may also try posting this issue again with a title reflecting problems with the channel and see if anyone else (I'm sure there are other people in that DMA on this board) is having the same issue - if it is your local I'd start complaining to them.


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## MPH711 (Jun 1, 2005)

Try recording (or watching) the NBC channel not from channel 4...but from the one in the 6000's or whatever that number is.


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## TP715 (Jan 15, 2007)

Wasn't there a case in the past where a channels broadcast engineers "accidently" set the "no record" flag? Could this be another occurrence? Perhaps contact the station and ask them?


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## Norm In Norman (Mar 25, 2004)

DUDE! I'm in Norman and have had the same problem recording from KFOR. I recorded Knight Rider a couple days ago and The Office tonight and can't watch either. Chuck from Monday doesn't have a problem though.

What happens with mine (I have a 722 btw) is it acts like a 1 second blank recording and stops when I try to play it. Then I select "Start Over" and I get a blank screen that shows the real length of the recording but I can't fast forward, stop, play or anything. To get out of it I have to change to another channel. I just tried restarting and it both recordings still do the same thing.

I guess I'll try AVS forums and see if there is anything there. If I find out anything I'll post it back here.

like it's wasn't bad enough that they can't show weather alerts without going back to SD. I really enjoyed my 10 seconds of Heroes in HD before they finished the show out in SD. Thank God the OU/Texas game is on ABC!


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## jericho (May 29, 2002)

Yep Norm, that's exactly the same problem I'm having. But you have a different HD receiver than me so that tells me its not just a 612 problem. And it started Tuesday for me too. My recordings on KFOR for monday worked. I'm amazed there aren't more upset OKC people on here yet. 

Yes, please let me know if you find anything out. I may try to call the station tomorrow and see if its accidental "no record flag" issue. (scary if they can actually do that!) I had to turn away from the Dodgers game tonight to watch The Office live so this is really becoming a pain. What's the point of having a DVR if you can't record your favorite shows?

Oh, and I tried the 6000 channel for KFOR and it does the same thing.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

TP715 said:


> Wasn't there a case in the past where a channels broadcast engineers "accidently" set the "no record" flag? Could this be another occurrence? Perhaps contact the station and ask them?


Anyone call the station and Dish, as this post is correct; it did happen one time.


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## h2ouup2 (Oct 11, 2008)

It's not just NBC now it, Fox and ION.

I have two 622's and it does it on both. However if you go to SD everything works fine.

I also have OTA HD on these channels (on one of the TV), and if I switch to OTA the rewind, pause, etc works perfectly.

I called DISH and reported the problem and they said it was the Network. However if so why can I record on OTA HD?

Something is wrong with DISH HD locals when they are sending them back to the OKC / Norman area. I tried the other channels and they are OK for NOW.

So in short it's not your unit, it a flaw in either the software upgrade, or how DISH is sending the signal to us because remember: MY OTA-HD works fine, my SD on these channels works fine, just the HD on Fox, NBC and ION are doing this.

I hope they get a fix for this soon.


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## Norm In Norman (Mar 25, 2004)

h2ouup2 said:


> It's not just NBC now it, Fox and ION.
> 
> I have two 622's and it does it on both. However if you go to SD everything works fine.
> 
> ...


My son was in the other room watching knight rider and complained that when he unpaused it it would skip to live tv. So I tested the same thing you did and OTA can be paused, rewound, and whatever while the satellite version would not. IF kfor had turned on that broadcast flag wouldn't it not work for both?

I'm calling dish right now.


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## Norm In Norman (Mar 25, 2004)

Ok guys, please call dish, explain the problem and tell them that they need to fill out a "technical problem report" for you. The lady I was on the phone with said the only thing she was showing in her system in the OKC area was a problem with Fox and Ion recording with static or something, which I guess is what was mentioned above. That is why they need to fill out the technical problem report.

I think the key thing you need to tell them is that the OTA version is fine while the satellite version is the problem. To me, that proves it's a Dish problem and not a kfor problem. Maybe if there are enough complaints then they will do something.


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## jericho (May 29, 2002)

I already called Dish and had them fill out a technical problem report last Thursday. So they should have had that showing in the system. Is there a technical hotline or email that we can go straight to the top on this? I want someone who can look at the feeds and see what I'm talking about. Not some random tech support person who just goes through the troubleshooting book.


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## veggieliving (Oct 12, 2008)

I'm so seriously peeved about this! Starting Tuesday night with Bones and now I've lost My Name is Earl and Life. They say Start Over and shut off in under a second. So that's local channel's 4 and 25 here in OKC.

Like everyone else, I've rebooted, tried forwarding and backing up, but my recordings are just toast.

I just called Dish Network and after telling them about OKC's problems and walking through a number of diagnostic steps, they sent a message to the Engineering department. They're sending a technical problem report to the engineers and they're supposed to call me back within 24 hours. We'll see...

Thanks for starting this thread or I would've just thought it was my receiver.


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## haloguy628 (Aug 5, 2007)

veggieliving said:


> I'm so seriously peeved about this! Starting Tuesday night with Bones and now I've lost My Name is Earl and Life. They say Start Over and shut off in under a second. So that's local channel's 4 and 25 here in OKC.
> 
> Like everyone else, I've rebooted, tried forwarding and backing up, but my recordings are just toast.
> 
> ...


Watch Life here: http://www.nbc.com/Life/

Watch MNIE here: http://www.nbc.com/My_Name_Is_Earl/

Watch Bones here: http://www.fox.com/bones/


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## Norm In Norman (Mar 25, 2004)

Awesome. I'm running linux and neither of those work right for me. Good thing there is bittorrent.


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## smeaster (Oct 12, 2008)

I am having the same issue in Midwest City OK; cannot record and playback on Dish local hd channels for fox and nbc; OTA and sd works fine; called in a trouble ticket but I am not hopeful it will be resolved; rep said the last software update was a month ago - and not this week; problem just started as with everyone; also cannot pause, etc.


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## veggieliving (Oct 12, 2008)

Thanks for the links to the shows. At least other technology is available to make up for the broken one at the moment.

Dish has another 8 hours left on their promise of a 24-hour callback. If they don't call in that time, I will call again and start demanding my money back...

I hope more people in Oklahoma City find this thread and make lots of complaint calls!


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## h2ouup2 (Oct 11, 2008)

They also promised to call me back in 24 hours. They have until 2:00 a.m. Ha, they won't call, I don't think they know what the problem is.

I thought it was my unit at first.

Better get ready and record your shows in SD or miss them.


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## smeaster (Oct 12, 2008)

I just checked and mine is working now; didn't hear back as to what tbe problem was.


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

When I got my 1st DVR (a 921)I had a problem with my local FOX station (this was OTA). They had to do something at the station to fix the problem so that DVR's worked.

The problem with KFOR may be a similar situation. The fact that "trick play" does not work (i.e. watching from the buffer, i.e. rewinding live tv) is the give away that it's the station's fault (and no it has nothing to do with copy protection flags). PSIP errors are the likely cause, and even if it's delivered by satellite the errors get retransmitted.


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## h2ouup2 (Oct 11, 2008)

Michael P said:


> When I got my 1st DVR (a 921)I had a problem with my local FOX station (this was OTA). They had to do something at the station to fix the problem so that DVR's worked.
> 
> The problem with KFOR may be a similar situation. The fact that "trick play" does not work (i.e. watching from the buffer, i.e. rewinding live tv) is the give away that it's the station's fault (and no it has nothing to do with copy protection flags). PSIP errors are the likely cause, and even if it's delivered by satellite the errors get retransmitted.


Mine is working now too. It would still be interesting to find out what happened.

Remember the OTA was working, and the SD was working only the HD wasn't working. It could have been PSIP errors only on HD I guess?

Bottom line it's fixed, still would like an explanation though.


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## jericho (May 29, 2002)

It's working for me too. Dish must have gotten a bunch of angry calls over the weekend from people who couldn't watch the programs they recorded all week. Whatever it was, I'm glad its fixed, but if anyone knows what the problem was, it would be interesting to find out.


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## eddieras (Aug 31, 2007)

i posted about this 2 weeks ago - i was just watching cnn news and went to skip back and it froze the 722 and rebooted - then went to watch nbc news recording and it jumped me to live- and this was recording ota - this is really pissing me off - they'd better fix this


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## Bigcat75 (Oct 7, 2008)

I was still having this problem as of last night as well. I have two 722's and it happens with both. It doesn't matter if it is OTA, HD, single mode or dual mode. Very frustrating!!


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