# DIRECTV 10 now scheduled for May Launch



## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

This website looks to have updated since Feb 17th, looks more current than any other I could find. Notice, it has removed (at least for now) all of the birds that were scheduled for SeaLaunch.

http://www.satelliteonthenet.co.uk/launch.html


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

Another link to Russian launch site info:

http://www.russianspaceweb.com/2007.html

Says launch set for first half 2007


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## HDTVsportsfan (Nov 29, 2005)

Wasn't this originally in April?


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## markrubi (Oct 12, 2006)

HDTVsportsfan said:


> Wasn't this originally in April?


Yes you are correct. I think Vegas should be taking bets on whether or not D will be turning on any more locals in HD thise year.  D10 is for the "National HD channels" right?


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

markrubi said:


> Yes you are correct. I think Vegas should be taking bets on whether or not D will be turning on any more locals in HD thise year.  D10 is for the "National HD channels" right?


National and additional HD LIL's wll come from D10 and D11.


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## HarleyD (Aug 31, 2006)

ScoBuck said:


> Another link to Russian launch site info:
> 
> http://www.russianspaceweb.com/2007.html
> 
> Says launch set for first half 2007


Also says the launch is DirecTV11, not DirecTV10.



> First half of 2007: A Proton/Breeze M to launch DirecTV 11 comsat from Baikonur.


Hmmm. I wonder if that is a misprint or if 11 is going ahead of 10 now becuase of the Sea Launch incident.

I thought it was originally going to be D10 from SeaLaunch in the first half of 2007 and D11 from Baikonur in the Fall. I could be mistaken.


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

It is possible that the NUMBER of the bird is only in regards to what orbital slot it is being sent to? Aren't the birds identical? My understanding is that BOTH are completed (10&11) but still on-site at BOEING. 

If so - they could ship either bird to Russia I would imagine. Might require switching connections for different launch vehicle, but I would guess that is NOT a major issue/problem.


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## HarleyD (Aug 31, 2006)

I won't claim to be an expert.

Everything I have read to date indicates that yes, the satellites are identical and that a ground spare was ordered in addition to the two slated for launch.

This quote from a very old article published on space.com dated July of 2005 would seem to back that up.



> Beyond Spaceway, DirecTV ordered three large 702-model Ka-band satellites from Boeing, all with a dual HDTV/broadband capacity. DirecTV 10 and DirecTV 11 will be delivered in 2006 and 2007, respectively. The third will be a ground spare. Newhart said the contract for these spacecraft includes an option for a fourth satellite.


Just wondering out loud. As long as I get more HD channels, a rose by any other name...


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## 450211 (Feb 23, 2007)

Does anyone have any idea how long after a satellite is put into orbit does it take to bring it on-line? Are we talking days to make sure everything is working to make new channels available, or weeks, or longer?

Also, is there any indication whether the May satellite will carry the new local HD channels they're promising?


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## brewer4 (Aug 19, 2006)

Takes at least a month if not longer. So if everything goes as planned, I would guess we should see things August time frame. If sooner, then great. If anything, I think they are definately shooting by beginning of Sunday Ticket.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

One thing that effects the timing is how quickly D* wants to get the satellite into geostationay orbit. They can do it quicker if they're willing to burn more fuel, but that shortens the expected operational life of the satellite since they can't refuel it in orbit.


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## BNUMM (Dec 24, 2006)

ScoBuck said:


> This website looks to have updated since Feb 17th, looks more current than any other I could find. Notice, it has removed (at least for now) all of the birds that were scheduled for SeaLaunch.
> 
> http://www.satelliteonthenet.co.uk/launch.html


Jet Propulsion Labs launch calendar has indicated the launch date of D10 as May for a while. It also shows that Echostar 11 (which was a SeaLaunch) has been moved from March to September.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

neptune-mick said:


> Does anyone have any idea how long after a satellite is put into orbit does it take to bring it on-line? Are we talking days to make sure everything is working to make new channels available, or weeks, or longer?
> 
> Also, is there any indication whether the May satellite will carry the new local HD channels they're promising?


All depends on the package the satellite is carrying, how much testing the manufacturer requires on orbit, etc. The last Xm satellite was turned over to XM in 44 days. S1 and S2, more complex satellites than d10 and d11, took 3 months or so. (There are some rumors that given their uniqueness, S2 may have been scheduled for extra testing by Boeing.)

And don't forget, sometimes mistakes happen. S1 was apparently almost lost during the testing process...

Both D10 and D11 will carry both Nationals and Locals in HD.

Cheers,
Tom


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## lbostons (Jun 13, 2006)

I was qouted from a CSR that it would launch in June. She also said that it would be able to transmit within a week or two. I don't believe her since the last two took a couple months to get handed over to D*. As for June or May who knows, as you all know CSRs sometimes do not have the most up-to-date information.

This information was handed out by her voluntarily by her when I called b/c my HD channels were not broadcasting.


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## Dolly (Jan 30, 2007)

Well I don't have HD, but for all of you that do I hope the birds fly well


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Dolly said:


> Well I don't have HD, but for all of you that do I hope the birds fly well


Thank you. And may you get HD soon.


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## lwilli201 (Dec 22, 2006)

According to the Boeing web site both sats are to be delivered on the ground. I guess D* is going to do all the work to get them into possition and tested.

Check out this Boeing website:

http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/space/bss/launch/launch_sched.html

Note that next to launch date it has DOG (Deliver on Ground)


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## loudo (Mar 24, 2005)

This recent article states June Launch for D-10.
http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6412800.html


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## Argee (Oct 16, 2006)

So, are the Spaceways at max capacity now or can DTV ads some more LIL's on them as well?


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## bobnielsen (Jun 29, 2006)

Argee said:


> So, are the Spaceways at max capacity now or can DTV ads some more LIL's on them as well?


Good question. Since DTV had announced additional LILs for 2006 (and apparently there are plans to add some within the next few months), satellite capacity would not seem to be the reason behind the schedule delays. Someone speculated in another thread that it might have something to do with the new order for Tandberg MPEG4 encoders (perhaps there aren't enough of them available). There are a few missing HD locals in existing markets for which agreements have been reached in recent months. These should be added, as well.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

tibber said:


> All depends on the package the satellite is carrying, how much testing the manufacturer requires on orbit, etc. The last Xm satellite was turned over to XM in 44 days.


I previously pointed out that the latest XM satellite (Blues), while using the same satellite platform, was nothing like a DBS satellite. XM4 carries two S-band transponders which have an incredibly broad and powerful beam. I was sincerely hoping that you would discontinue making any further comparisons.


> S1 and S2, more complex satellites than d10 and d11, took 3 months or so. (There are some rumors that given their uniqueness, S2 may have been scheduled for extra testing by Boeing.)


Spaceway 1 took six days shy of SIX (6) months to handoff. Spaceway 2 took FIVE (5) months to the day to handoff.

I'm not sure why you assert that S1 and S2 are more complex than D10, D11 or D12. Counting backwards from the eventual bandwidth capacity claimed by DirecTV, they feature half the spotbeam payload (250 HD LIL channels each) of the new birds and none of the CONUS coverage.

This is why my projections are for _at least_ four months after launch. I believe that forecasting handoff in terms of days or weeks is folly. Such is not to say that it can't or won't be done, but I can find no relevant evidence to suggest otherwise. Hopefully, they will surprise me.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

harsh said:


> Spaceway 1 took six days shy of SIX (6) months to handoff. Spaceway 2 took FIVE (5) months to the day to handoff.


The Spaceway sats were Delivered In Orbit. D10 and D11 are Delivered On Ground. That means that there is *no* handoff from Boeing to DirecTV while the satellites are up. They are DirecTV's property the whole time. Assuming that DirecTV's testing will take at least four months is absurd. There's no reason for it to take that long.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Jeremy W said:


> Assuming that DirecTV's testing will take at least four months is absurd. There's no reason for it to take that long.


I use the four month period because that's the supportable number that we have from Spaceway 2; the most recently launched DirecTV satellite. I say supportable because there is disagreement on whether or not the Hughes testing impacted the hand-off date.

I believe that the DOG status was done so that DirecTV could have more options regarding when, how and whether they launched the satellites.

Perhaps you could explain why it should be sooner than four months. Does DirecTV know something about setting up satellites that Boeing doesn't?


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

harsh said:


> Does DirecTV know something about setting up satellites that Boeing doesn't?


I'm sure they don't, but they have much more incentive this time around to get the satellite broadcasting ASAP. They're not going to drag their feet at all, and I can't imagine that they wouldn't work as fast as humanly possible. When you're not dealing with Hughes testing their IP service, there is no reason for a testing period to take four months. And it won't take four months, I am laying that down right here. Once the channels start beaming down from the new satellite, we can come back to this thread and see who was right.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Jeremy W said:


> When you're not dealing with Hughes testing their IP service, there is no reason for a testing period to take four months.


Reportedly the Hughes testing was in the fifth month. That leaves four months to get a much smaller satellite going.

You don't really want DirecTV to do to their upcoming satellites what they did to the HR20, do you?


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

harsh said:


> You don't really want DirecTV to do to their upcoming satellites what they did to the HR20, do you?


Unlike the HR20, DirecTV already has experience transmitting MPEG4 programming.

Until some hard numbers are available, neither one of us will be convinced. So we'll just wait and see.


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## loudo (Mar 24, 2005)

Remember the HR20 was a NEW unit, just coming out. It is software run and anything software run needs debugging time. No matter how much BETA time is spent there will always be problems when a new software or software run device comes out. Look what happens every time Microsoft comes out with a new operating system, look how many service packs and patches they need to get it right. D* is doing a good job getting it right so far. Most of the bugs have been worked out.

Also remember the spot beam satellites probably need a lot more setup and testing than the Conus ones do.


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

I'm just hoping the sat will be broadcasting sooner rather than later and that they run into minimal issues with the launch and orbital positioning.


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## loudo (Mar 24, 2005)

PoitNarf said:


> I'm just hoping the sat will be broadcasting sooner rather than later and that they run into minimal issues with the launch and orbital positioning.


I think we all have our fingers crossed on that one.


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## cnmsales (Jan 9, 2007)

After the installer was out here yesterday I am a bit confused on this. I mentioned the two new satellites that would provide HD and he said that isnt the case as if they put new sats up Id have to have a bigger dish with 5lnb's. He said all the hd would be carried on the current sats. I know this has to be wrong or else these sats are set to TAKE THE PLACE of two that are currently up and can deliver more BW then the two they would replace. Any info on what he said?


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

cnmsales said:


> After the installer was out here yesterday I am a bit confused on this. I mentioned the two new satellites that would provide HD and he said that isnt the case as if they put new sats up Id have to have a bigger dish with 5lnb's. He said all the hd would be carried on the current sats. I know this has to be wrong or else these sats are set to TAKE THE PLACE of two that are currently up and can deliver more BW then the two they would replace. Any info on what he said?


So the dish he installed wasn't the 5LNB dish? The new sats to go up are going to be in the same orbital slots as the 2 that went up last year at locations 99 and 103. The 5LNB dish will be able to see the current sats and the 2 new MPEG4 HD sats to go up later this year.


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## cnmsales (Jan 9, 2007)

Yes it was the 5lnb dish. So he just didnt know then. So how can a sattelite pick up two seperate sats at the same time on the same orbit?


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

cnmsales said:


> Yes it was the 5lnb dish. So he just didnt know then. So how can a sattelite pick up two seperate sats at the same time on the same orbit?


I don't know the technical details, but that's the way it's going to be; 2 of the MPEG4 sats at the 99 slot and 2 at the 103.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

cnmsales said:


> how can a sattelite pick up two seperate sats at the same time on the same orbit?


The satellites are broadcasting on different frequencies.


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## machavez00 (Nov 2, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> The satellites are broadcasting on different frequencies.


thus the need for the B band converters


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

Jeremy W said:


> I'm sure they don't, but they have much more incentive this time around to get the satellite broadcasting ASAP. They're not going to drag their feet at all, and I can't imagine that they wouldn't work as fast as humanly possible. When you're not dealing with Hughes testing their IP service, there is no reason for a testing period to take four months. And it won't take four months, I am laying that down right here. Once the channels start beaming down from the new satellite, we can come back to this thread and see who was right.


Are you an expert? I'm betting NO.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

machavez00 said:


> thus the need for the B band converters


Not quite.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Paul Secic said:


> Are you an expert? I'm betting NO.


I am not a rocket scientist, no. I never claimed to be, either.


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## cnmsales (Jan 9, 2007)

Ahh yeah, that makes sense. Installer mentioned the need for those because of the diff freqs on the sats. LOL wonder why he would know that and not that those sats arent airborn yet.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

harsh said:


> I previously pointed out that the latest XM satellite (Blues), while using the same satellite platform, was nothing like a DBS satellite. XM4 carries two S-band transponders which have an incredibly broad and powerful beam. I was sincerely hoping that you would discontinue making any further comparisons.


Why? the OP asked for a time range. XM is a very valid comparison point as it uses the same Boeing satellite bus as a starting point. Sure different package, but your favorite example, the Spaceways is also a very different package. Perhaps you should stop using that as an example? I don't think you should, but if you think XM isn't valid, you equally should think Spaceway isn't.


> Spaceway 1 took six days shy of SIX (6) months to handoff. Spaceway 2 took FIVE (5) months to the day to handoff.
> 
> I'm not sure why you assert that S1 and S2 are more complex than D10, D11 or D12. Counting backwards from the eventual bandwidth capacity claimed by DirecTV, they feature half the spotbeam payload (250 HD LIL channels each) of the new birds and none of the CONUS coverage.
> 
> This is why my projections are for _at least_ four months after launch. I believe that forecasting handoff in terms of days or weeks is folly. Such is not to say that it can't or won't be done, but I can find no relevant evidence to suggest otherwise. Hopefully, they will surprise me.


Thank you for the corrections to my recollections on how long S1 and S2 took to turn over. I could not recall at the time I posted.

I am sorry I can not explain to you why I feel S1 and S2 are far more complex. I've tried to explain, but clearly we are not synching up. As to why you continue to bring it up, I also can not explain. I thought we had agreed to disagree.

I will try one more time, moreso for the newer people. S1 and S2 are brand new technology as launched satellites: both the 702 bus was then very new and the phased array for spotbeams is still new to this day. S1 and S2 are, AFAIK, the only 2 birds using that technology. D10 and D11 are based on already in use technologies a now more understood 702 bus and standard TWTA transponders. Well known, time-tested, already in use technologies. It would be much easier to compare XM with D10 than S1 and D10...

How long _will_ it take? I don't know. Could be couple months. If things go wrong, it could take 6 months or even more. Your guess of 4 months is very reasonable.

Cheers,
Tom


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

I'm in agreement with tibber in that I believe that the timeframe for D10 to get lit will be shorter than either of the SPACEWAY birds for a couple of reasons. 

First of all SW1 was the first D* bird to utiliize comercially the Ka band, also MPEG4, and in addition they needed to do testing of the ground facilities and some beta testing of the H20 before launching Detroit in Oct 05. Yeah, it had been all tested on the ground, and MPEG4 was tested from the 101 slot (and demonstrated at CES in 2005), but before Detroit was lit, it was operational for DirecTV beta testers.

SW2 was 'borrowed' by its original owner Hughes for testing - thus pushing back its D*start date.

But in both these cases those tests took 4-6 weeks (as far as i understand) and l have to believe that the test period after reaching GEO orbit for D10 is thus going to be shorter. Also, since the beams are CONUS, I'm guessing (this is strictly a guess) that they require less precision in aiming and quite possibly could be pre-set while its still on the ground.

My estimate is 2-3 months from launch - just in time for NFL-ST (assuming no later than June launch).


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Argee said:


> So, are the Spaceways at max capacity now or can DTV ads some more LIL's on them as well?


No the Spaceways still have some room. I don't think there is much left, but the biggest hangup for LILs was supply of the HR20, according to the people at CES.



cnmsales said:


> After the installer was out here yesterday I am a bit confused on this. I mentioned the two new satellites that would provide HD and he said that isnt the case as if they put new sats up Id have to have a bigger dish with 5lnb's. He said all the hd would be carried on the current sats. I know this has to be wrong or else these sats are set to TAKE THE PLACE of two that are currently up and can deliver more BW then the two they would replace. Any info on what he said?


The installer was mistaken. The current disk is the 5lnb, there won't be any changes to the home needed to support the two new satellites.

There is some minor truth to a concept of D10 and D11 taking a part of the place that S1 and S2 were scheduled for. But they will not replace S1 and S2 entirely.

Part of the issue is FCC licenses for the frequencies. As a part of the awarding of the licenses to Hughes then transfer to Directv, significant milestones had to be reached or the licenses would revert back to the FCC for resale. Included in these milestones were contract for satellites, arrange for launch facilities, then actual usage of the frequencies all with certain timeframes. After the licenses were granted, Boeing finished the design of the more powerful 702 bus, DIRECTV decided to launch D10 and D11 on that bus and combined three satellites planned for each of 99 and 103 into two: S1 and D10 and S2 and D11. This freed up some frequencies (not to the home) originally approved for communications between satellites in those slots. I'm sorry, I don't have ALL the details straight in my mind, I continue to research some of the original plans for comparison.



cnmsales said:


> Yes it was the 5lnb dish. So he just didnt know then. So how can a sattelite pick up two seperate sats at the same time on the same orbit?


Actually, DIRECTV has had three or even more satellites colocated in various slots for several reasons. Right now, at 101, for instance are D1R, D4s, D8s, and D9s. Your receiver is likely picking up D1R, D4s, and D8 (I think) from 101. The trick is to make sure each satellite is transmitting on mutually exclusive frequencies and/or to mutually exclusive geography. For instance, at one point, D1R may have been all the even conus transponders and D4 all the odd ones. And spot beams filled in the rest as needed.

At 99 and 103, there are 2 ranges of KA frequencies. At each location, the Spaceways will take one range and the D10/11 will take the other. And even simpler scheme.

cheers,
Tom


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

lwilli201 said:


> According to the Boeing web site both sats are to be delivered on the ground. I guess D* is going to do all the work to get them into possition and tested.
> 
> Check out this Boeing website:
> 
> ...





Jeremy W said:


> The Spaceway sats were Delivered In Orbit. D10 and D11 are Delivered On Ground. That means that there is *no* handoff from Boeing to DirecTV while the satellites are up. They are DirecTV's property the whole time. Assuming that DirecTV's testing will take at least four months is absurd. There's no reason for it to take that long.





harsh said:


> I believe that the DOG status was done so that DirecTV could have more options regarding when, how and whether they launched the satellites.
> 
> Perhaps you could explain why it should be sooner than four months. Does DirecTV know something about setting up satellites that Boeing doesn't?


Took some digging, and I'm not yet complete, but I believe that I understand the following:
DOG is mostly for insurance and Title of ownership purposes. I think Harsh is totally correct in that the contract was written so that DIRECTV had more flexibility in arranging its own Launcher Services.

While the satellites transfer title to DIRECTV at the point of "intentional ignition of the launch vehicle" (or a few other clauses), the scope of work required by Boeing does not end there. There are schedules of work to be done by Boeing to get the satellite into final orbit and in orbit testing prior to active user turnover to DIRECTV.

Hope this clears up the mud somewhat. While this is likely all easy to understand if you're in the industry, finding it from the outside has taken a fair amount of time. Let me know if I've left anything out.

Cheers,
Tom


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Great information tibber!


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> Assuming that DirecTV's testing will take at least four months is absurd. There's no reason for it to take that long.


One of the conditions of the sale of S1 & S2 to D* as part of the NewCorp buyout was extended testing by HNS. Remember HNS still has S# & S4 so they wanted to be able to do some testing of the capabilities of these birds.

While I agree that comparing and XM satellite to a DBS satellite is apples and oranges, remember that D* 7S was launched in early May 2004 was in service before the end of the month. Granted it was a SSL bird and not a Boeing bird so I don't know if that makes a difference.


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## Ext 721 (Feb 26, 2007)

cnmsales said:


> Yes it was the 5lnb dish. So he just didnt know then. So how can a sattelite pick up two seperate sats at the same time on the same orbit?


It jus treats them as if they were one sat.

Heck, the old receivers were "tricked" into considering the 119 and 110 ONE sat.


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## Ext 721 (Feb 26, 2007)

cnmsales said:


> Ahh yeah, that makes sense. Installer mentioned the need for those because of the diff freqs on the sats. LOL wonder why he would know that and not that those sats arent airborn yet.


Same reason a house framer whose job is to fire a nail-gun might not know about the poor timber growing season in canada.

People tend to know enough to do their jobs, and not much more. Only the very curious or very ambitious will stay informed about aspects of their industry that have no real bearing over the way they do their jobs.


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## nick1817 (Feb 12, 2007)

Someone forwarded me an e-mail from Direct TV sent to them, current customer, ( I assume promo stuff) claiming the new channels in under 4 mos


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

nick1817 said:


> Someone forwarded me an e-mail from Direct TV sent to them, current customer, ( I assume promo stuff) claiming the new channels in under 4 mos


So post it...


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## nick1817 (Feb 12, 2007)

That all it said, new channels coming within 4 months

-- A&E -- National Geographic
-- Bravo -- NFL Network
-- Cartoon Network -- SciFi Channel
-- CNN -- Speed
-- Food Network -- TBS
-- FX -- The History Channel
-- HGTV -- The Weather Channel
-- MTV -- USA Network

Nothing mind blowing. I never get e-mails from Direct TV, so I thought the timing of him getting this was convenient, is all.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

We've known about the channels for a while now, but the "within 4 months" claim is what's interesting. That would be the end of June, and if the launch happens in May, it would be possible for that to happen. We'll see, but I'm waiting for an official announcement.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

machavez00 said:


> thus the need for the B band converters


The B band converters have nothing to do with the frequencies of the satellites. The LNB sees to it that all of the frequencies are block converted to frequencies that will pass through an RG6 cable.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

tibber said:


> Why? the OP asked for a time range. XM is a very valid comparison point as it uses the same Boeing satellite bus as a starting point.


Other than that, they have almost nothing in common. It would be like comparing a "big block" Corvette with a school bus using the same engine.


> Sure different package, but your favorite example, the Spaceways is also a very different package.


The Spaceway satellites have dozens of Ka transponders just like the new satellites have and many are arranged in spotbeams just like the new satellites are.


> I am sorry I can not explain to you why I feel S1 and S2 are far more complex. I've tried to explain, but clearly we are not synching up.


I don't recall a technical explanation of the differences. At one time both agreed that we could find no authoritative information on the composition of the new satellites; key in determining relative complexity.


> As to why you continue to bring it up, I also can not explain.


I bring it up, because I think the number (or even just the presence) of spotbeams is proportional to the amount of time required to get a satellite fully deployed.


> S1 and S2 are brand new technology as launched satellites: both the 702 bus was then very new and the phased array for spotbeams is still new to this day.


The first of the Boeing 702 model line was launched in 1999 and by April 2004, they had an order for the sixteenth in the series, so it was not uncharted territory. It is notable that XM1 and XM2 are failing 702 platform satellites.

I was under the impression from reading the Wikipedia article that the phased array equipment went away when the satellite was refitted for DBS use.


> It would be much easier to compare XM with D10 than S1 and D10...


The Wikipedia article suggests that D10 and D11 are "expected to utilize" the same bent-pipe Ka band technology that Spaceway 1 and 2 were refitted for.


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

The truth is, sats (for various companies) have been up AND operational within 2 months. Not all of the testing done prior to lighting SW1 & SW2 up for commercial use was on the birds - as already discussed, these 2 birds required extensive on-ground testing after they were launched also. I for one, do NOT know if these similar tests (ground facilities, etc.) will be required prior to D10 being turned on for commercial use.

I don't think that there is ANY direct correlation between the timeframe for SW1/2 and D10/11 - it obviously depends on what exactly needs to be accomplished, and also how much emphasis/manpower, etc. is placed on getting the work done. 

I still take D* at face value, and that they will be a GO by Labor Day for D10 commercial usage.


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## moonman (Oct 27, 2004)

I notice that Spaceway3, a Hughes Broadband Satellite, has been reschedule
from SeaLaunch, to Ariianespace. http://www.arianespace.com/site/news/news_sub_release_index.html
Directv10 a Russian Proton launch is now sked. for July9th per Lyngsat..
http://www.lyngsat.com/launches/ka.html
and Direct11 still shows as June? with sealaunch.
Direct12 is a ground spare.
Also Echostar 11 is said to have switched launch companies also.


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## HDTVsportsfan (Nov 29, 2005)

July....That sucks. But at least it's going up.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

moonman said:


> July9th per Lyngsat..


Are you sure that isn't a July through September window? Another listing, NigComSat, with an obvious date comes in the YYMMDD format versus the YYMM-?? format.

Amos-3 is slated to go up in December according to the Amos-Spacecom website, so I'm inclined to think that the hyphen represents a month range as opposed to a specific day.

Note that I'm still not very confident with the information that Lyngsat offers, but it does seem to be agreeing with what we eventually find out from other sources.

How's that for grasping at straws?


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

moonman said:


> I notice that Spaceway3, a Hughes Broadband Satellite, has been reschedule
> from SeaLaunch, to Ariianespace. http://www.arianespace.com/site/news/news_sub_release_index.html
> Directv10 a Russian Proton launch is now sked. for July9th per Lyngsat..
> http://www.lyngsat.com/launches/ka.html
> ...


Couple of things. First, lyngsat is way off in its information (that is nothing new). The first sat is launching may-june from Russia on a Proton. Could be either DirecTV 10 or 11.

If you would be so kind as to pass on ANY link where you have info re: Echostar 11.


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## moonman (Oct 27, 2004)

ScoBuck said:


> Couple of things. First, lyngsat is way off in its information (that is nothing new). The first sat is launching may-june from Russia on a Proton. Could be either DirecTV 10 or 11.
> 
> If you would be so kind as to pass on ANY link where you have info re: Echostar 11.


Direct10 is definitely a Proton launch by contract. Sealaunch was/is sked to do directv11. Since Directv has a option for a second launch (Sealaunch-land)
they could wind up with a second launch as well from Russia, altho that option has not been announced. As for E*'s 11, it is still on Lyngsat's sked. as well, however it is a in-orbit spare so no hurry there....this article does not
indicate which bird it is, but it would not surprise me if it iturned out to be
E*'s11.
Echostar Orders Proton Launch from ILS
McLEAN, Va., Feb. 21, 2007 - International Launch Services (ILS) today announced that EchoStar Communications Corporation (NASDAQ: DISH) will launch a satellite in 2008 on a Proton Breeze M vehicle. Financial details were not disclosed.

EchoStar has a long-standing relationship with ILS that includes 100 percent success on all previous launches.

ILS President Frank McKenna said, "We are happy to have completed this order for a returning customer, and we are dedicated to performing reliably and on-schedule to support EchoStar."

The Proton vehicle, built by ILS partner Khrunichev State Research and Production Space Center of Russia, has carried out more than 320 missions for the Russian government and commercial customers for more than 40 years. The Proton launches from the Baikonur Cosmodrome in Kazakhstan.

###


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## Guest (Mar 1, 2007)

ScoBuck said:


> My estimate is 2-3 months from launch - just in time for NFL-ST (assuming no later than June launch).


How would that affect Sunday Ticket? Unless CBS expands their HD coverage to more than 3 games per week, it won't matter what DirecTV does. Maybe you were referring to NFL Network? It would be nice to have that in HD by the start of football season.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

rcoleman111 said:


> How would that affect Sunday Ticket? Unless CBS expands their HD coverage to more than 3 games per week, it won't matter what DirecTV does. Maybe you were referring to NFL Network? It would be nice to have that in HD by the start of football season.


Actually, you are correct--ST will likely not be affected by this. But SF very well might be. I'm bettin' that the same sorta stuff that is in NASCAR Hotpass will be in SF either this season or next... (Kinda hinted at CES...)

Cheers,
Tom


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

rcoleman111 said:


> How would that affect Sunday Ticket? Unless CBS expands their HD coverage to more than 3 games per week, it won't matter what DirecTV does. Maybe you were referring to NFL Network? It would be nice to have that in HD by the start of football season.


I was referring to the need of D* to move around the available bandwidth to carry all of the Hd games. NFL network in HD is only 1 channel additional.


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

moonman said:


> Direct10 is definitely a Proton launch by contract. Sealaunch was/is sked to do directv11. Since Directv has a option for a second launch (Sealaunch-land)
> they could wind up with a second launch as well from Russia, altho that option has not been announced. As for E*'s 11, it is still on Lyngsat's sked. as well, however it is a in-orbit spare so no hurry there....this article does not
> indicate which bird it is, but it would not surprise me if it iturned out to be
> E*'s11.
> ...


As to the best of my knowledge both DirecTV 10 and 11 are still at Boeing, I feel pretty certain that they could ship EITHER to Russia for launch - I would guess that it would depend on which orbital slot they want to have up and running first (knowing that the second launch was going to be delayed due to SeaLaunch accident). But whichever it is that is launched is meaningless to us I think. Truth is, barring an accident to this DirecTV satellite, it will be up and running pretty soon. I remember when it was 3 years away, 3-6 months ain't bad IMO.


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## VeniceDre (Aug 16, 2006)

I'd really like to know if HD Sunday Ticket this year will be on the new MPEG4 bird if it gets up in time. Since bandwith is the issue they wouldn't have to shut down a HD channel or 2 on the MPEG2 and get rid of PPV channels for the day.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

VeniceDre said:


> I'd really like to know if HD Sunday Ticket this year will be on the new MPEG4 bird if it gets up in time. Since bandwith is the issue they wouldn't have to shut down a HD channel or 2 on the MPEG2 and get rid of PPV channels for the day.


I asked this very question at CES. The people I talked to seemed very genuine in not knowing at that point. They did say that it was unlikely but possible a decision had been made and they hadn't been told yet.

The key path DIRECTV is taking that they will evaluate bandwidth usage based on how the user community moves organically and not try to force users to switch. Its much cheaper if users move on their own.

Another part to this whole equation is that if DIRECTV forces users to move to newer equipment, that will further constrain sales to new customers of the HR20. They'd much rather sell, sell, sell than give away 

If I had to guess, there may be "new" SF features available only on MPEG4, but everything we've seen to date will stay one more season on MPEG2. Sales of HR20s are so high, they do not want to slow that in the least!

Challenges and cheers,
Tom


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## VeniceDre (Aug 16, 2006)

My thinking exactly... In the near future they are going to have a lot customers as it is who will one day wake up to the news that the new HD channels are available... but they can't watch them because they haven't upgraded to the new 5 LNB and/or a new MPEG4 receiver yet. Granted people have upgraded but I think they where will be a mass rush of upgrade requests on top of the new customers they will be flooded with... Good luck with that DirecTV.

Couple that with Sunday Ticket they will probably wait at least one more season just to not piss people off on two levels... "I can't watch the new HD channels until I get the new equipment... oh ok... What?!?!!? I can't watch Football in HD either???!?!!... Where's my gun!"


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## loudo (Mar 24, 2005)

VeniceDre said:


> I'd really like to know if HD Sunday Ticket this year will be on the new MPEG4 bird if it gets up in time. Since bandwith is the issue they wouldn't have to shut down a HD channel or 2 on the MPEG2 and get rid of PPV channels for the day.


Once they have all of the HD locals up and running, they can change out the remaining non MPG4 receivers to HR20s & H20s. Then they could move all of their current HD channels to new satellites with MPG 4. This would free up a lot of space on their current birds.

By next football season, if all goes well, with the two upcoming launches, HD bandwidth shouldn't be an issue.

If they could expand on the size of their MPG4 spot beams of the locals, to cover the entire country, they could get rid of the HD locals in the 80's as everyone could get networks from their closest local network stations, via MPG4 broadcast. That would free up channel 80 to 89.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

VeniceDre said:


> My thinking exactly... In the near future they are going to have a lot customers as it is who will one day wake up to the news that the new HD channels are available... but they can't watch them because they haven't upgraded to the new 5 LNB and/or a new MPEG4 receiver yet. Granted people have upgraded but I think they where will be a mass rush of upgrade requests on top of the new customers they will be flooded with... Good luck with that DirecTV.
> 
> Couple that with Sunday Ticket they will probably wait at least one more season just to not piss people off on two levels... "I can't watch the new HD channels until I get the new equipment... oh ok... What?!?!!? I can't watch Football in HD either???!?!!... Where's my gun!"


For people who don't know, the press announcements at CES are for the press and the wall street analysts. My sense, without anything I can directly quote, is that the analysts (and the press) understood exactly what DIRECTV was trying to do visa vie an organic conversion process. Let content drive both new customers and existing customers to convert.

I was impressed with DIRECTV's press conference. Lots of excitement (unlike Dish networks, surprisingly.)

Challenges and cheers,
Tom


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## VeniceDre (Aug 16, 2006)

tibber said:


> For people who don't know, the press announcements at CES are for the press and the wall street analysts. My sense, without anything I can directly quote, is that the analysts (and the press) understood exactly what DIRECTV was trying to do visa vie an organic conversion process. Let content drive both new customers and existing customers to convert.
> 
> I was impressed with DIRECTV's press conference. Lots of excitement (unlike Dish networks, surprisingly.)
> 
> ...


From my experience here in the Los Angeles market they can hardly keep up with the current demand (scheduling delays, hardware shortages, and cancelled appts.)

It could get even uglier when the demand intensifies.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

As of now, the D* web site for NFLST-SF says only the 3LNB dish is required unless a game is on a local HD channel then you need to 5LNB dish. If they were going to move it to the Ka band you'd think they'd be getting the word out now so folks can start upgrading all the hardware, we're only about 6 months away from the start of the season. 

IMHO, unless they do more the NFLST-SF HD channels over to the Ka birds this year we'll be seeing the same as last year with the PPV's being shut down and TNT-HD or Universal-HD going dark on Sunday afternoons since they will still have the current bandwidth requirements that they had last year this year on the Ku birds.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Based on the current schedule....
I would have to agree that Sunday Ticket-SF will be on the 3LNB setup.

But... it is possible that TNT-HD or Universal-HD gets moved over to the others, sooner then "planned"


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Based on the current schedule....
> I would have to agree that Sunday Ticket-SF will be on the 3LNB setup.


I can't foresee them getting the Ka nationals up in time either. Have they administered last rites to the sports recording bug on the HR20?


> But... it is possible that TNT-HD or Universal-HD gets moved over to the others, sooner then "planned"


I don't think anyone would get particularly uppity about Universal HD moving to Ka, but there are a lot of sports fans who would have a fecal hemorrhage if they suddenly moved TNT. Sports, as limited as it is becoming, is one of the few redeeming qualities that TNT-HD might have.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

harsh said:


> Sports, as limited as it is becoming, is one of the few redeeming qualities that TNT-HD might have.


Tis true... Tis true


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Moonman posted that Hughes, originally scheduled for May is now scheduled for August on Arianespace.

More good news from that article: United Launch Alliance has cleared the Atlas V for launch after the Sea Launch explosion. This might take some pressure off SeaLaunch _and_ indicates at least that the cousin engine to the one that exploded is cleared for launch. That might also help clearing the SeaLaunch engine as well. But that investigation continues...

SeaLaunch has projected two launches this year, down from 5.

Link: http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5037

None of this applies to D10's launch, which is still showing as Proton in May--but many sources vary as to launch date. (And there is a lot of D10/D11 confusion in the schedules too.)

Challenges and cheers,
Tom


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## lwilli201 (Dec 22, 2006)

I wish I could find out how many D* subs have HD, and of that number, how many have only MPEG2 HD equipment. The MPEG2 number is the critical one. These are the ones that have to be converted to MPEG4 before the MPEG2 HD channels can go away. All new subs will have non HD equipment or should get MPEG4 equipment. With the demand for H20's and HR20's, I do not understand why D* does not have additional suppliers so there will not be a shortage. Is Pace dragging their feet?


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## Halo (Jan 13, 2006)

loudo said:


> If they could expand on the size of their MPG4 spot beams of the locals, to cover the entire country, they could get rid of the HD locals in the 80's as everyone could get networks from their closest local network stations, via MPG4 broadcast. That would free up channel 80 to 89.


I think the reason they never used the spaceway spotbeams in a Conus configuration is because it's impossible. Or, at the least, not practicle while still starting the HD locals rollout on those sats.

The KA spots are smaller to begin with. To double the diameter of a spot beam would require that the power allocated to that spot beam be *quadrupled* to maintain the same signal strength. To do any kind of Conus configuration with the spaceway spotbeams they would have to much more than double the diameter of the spots.
They do have the ability to ramp up power and/or increase FEC to a spotbeam which is under severe weather. It's one reason KA signals can be used at all. I've seen for myself the signal strength jump about 8 or 10 points right before a storm. I just doubt they could ramp the power 16X (which would quadruple the size of the original spotbeam), but I could be wrong about that.


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## lwilli201 (Dec 22, 2006)

Another reason to have spot beams is that non overlapping beams can use the same frequencies. The are just so many frequencies and ways to pack channels into those frequencies.


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## RUSHFAN_2112 (Mar 3, 2007)

I am hoping to get HD programming very soon, but with the N.O. locals not in HD yet, and the delay in the launch of the new HD sats, I think my best bet is to hold out until end of summer. Also, my choice in HDTV's a a Samsung Plasma, and it seems they have issues with HDMI hookups and the H20 and HR20 receivers.


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## mitchelljd (Aug 16, 2006)

nick1817 said:


> That all it said, new channels coming within 4 months
> 
> -- A&E -- National Geographic
> -- Bravo -- NFL Network
> ...


would wish cinemax hd, the movie channel HD, Starz HD would be added to the HD mix


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

mitchelljd said:


> would wish cinemax hd, the movie channel HD, Starz HD would be added to the HD mix


According to the January press release: 


> To satisfy the insatiable appetite for a greater number of movies in HD, DIRECTV will offer an expanded line-up of HD programming available from all premium movie channels.


You can find the press release at: http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=127160&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=948332&highlight=

Challenges and cheers,
Tom


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

mitchelljd said:


> would wish cinemax hd, the movie channel HD, Starz HD would be added to the HD mix


Those channels would be associated with their respective premium service as opposed to the HD programming package.

The bind that DirecTV is in is that they don't have the space to put these on the Ku satellites, so those with MPEG2 receivers would not be able to receive the HD version.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

tibber said:


> According to the January press release:


But Doc says that they already offer the best of the available HD channels now.:shrug:

As I pointed out previously, only six of those fourteen are actually live today.


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