# Genie - Not (Ever?) For Me



## JohnTSmith (Dec 5, 2009)

Mostly this is just a personal comment about why I will never (?) have a Genie

The Genie sounds great... 5 tuners and you may play recorded video on any box in the house

BUT

Twice in the last year one of my two HR23 boxes has died and been replaced... which means that all recorded shows ON THAT BOX were lost

I also have 2 older DTivo boxes, each with recordings

I shudder to think what would happen if I replaced those 4 separate recorders with a Genie... and then the Genie died and I lost ALL recordings

So... no plans to ever (?) replace my 4 recorder boxes with one Genie


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Why not get a Genie and keep the others that you have (or all but the one the Genie replaces)?


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## jjn (Dec 16, 2006)

Keep your other DVR's.
Don't have all your DTV's eggs in one basket...


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## usnret (Jan 16, 2009)

Thats what I did. Got a Genie last Feb, and kept my HR24 and HR22 for backup of my most watched programs. Won't lose a thing if one of them "goes South".


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## TXD16 (Oct 30, 2008)

I've been using various iterations of DIRECTV's DVR technology since the introduction of the Philips DSR6000. In all that time, and with numerous DVRs over that period of time, I have had exactly one DVR (an R15) bite the dust. And when it happened, it was one of only two DVRs I had at the time, but it was replaced so quickly by DIRECTV that I completely forgot about any "lost" recordings, I recovered what I could from other sources, and then simply picked up where I had left off.

My point being, it's just TV. If it's that critical, store it on something other than a hard drive.


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## Rickt1962 (Jul 17, 2012)

usnret said:


> Thats what I did. Got a Genie last Feb, and kept my HR24 and HR22 for backup of my most watched programs. Won't lose a thing if one of them "goes South".


Direct sucks when it comes to backups ! You can use a external drive ! But its married to your reciever  When it should be married to your acct ! Dish does it why cant Direct do it ?


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

Rickt1962;3182679 said:


> Direct sucks when it comes to backups ! You can use a external drive ! But its married to your reciever  When it should be married to your acct ! Dish does it why cant Direct do it ?


You've brought that issue up time and time again. While most of us would want that, it does not like seem it will happen any time soon. DirecTV uses an encryption scheme that ties recordings to a specific receiver. DISH does not. Until DirecTV decides to redo their encryption scheme, which would most likely cost a lot of money, it's not going to happen.

- Merg


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## yall2 (Dec 5, 2010)

I guess u use ur dvr different than me. I don't concider it as an archive. At most I keep shows for a couple of weeks before I watch them and delete.


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## patmurphey (Dec 21, 2006)

Rickt1962 said:


> Direct sucks when it comes to backups ! You can use a external drive ! But its married to your reciever  When it should be married to your acct ! Dish does it why cant Direct do it ?


I love Dish's EHD setup, but please don't consider it a backup. You can only transfer - NOT - copy recordings because of DRM. It is nice that all VIP DVR and Hopper/Joey receivers in the account can read them and that you can use them to move to a new receiver, but again they are not backups.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

The Merg said:


> You've brought that issue up time and time again. While most of us would want that, it does not like seem it will happen any time soon. DirecTV uses an encryption scheme that ties recordings to a specific receiver. DISH does not. Until DirecTV decides to redo their encryption scheme, which would most likely cost a lot of money, it's not going to happen.
> 
> - Merg


With the 34s and 44s only having a 1TB drive internally and five tuners pumping content into the drives, I think eventually D* will see the light and, at least, allow for external drives to be viewed on replacement Genies. Seems logical, but that means nothing.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

patmurphey said:


> I love Dish's EHD setup, but please don't consider it a backup. You can only transfer - NOT - copy recordings because of DRM. It is nice that all VIP DVR and Hopper/Joey receivers in the account can read them and that you can use them to move to a new receiver, but again they are not backups.


I have a Pat Murphey (hmm. Might be Murphy) living next door to me... :lol:

I don't understand why you don't think of those HDDs within the account as backups. Could you explain further?

Rich


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## macfan601 (May 4, 2012)

yall2 said:


> I guess u use ur dvr different than me. I don't concider it as an archive. At most I keep shows for a couple of weeks before I watch them and delete.


I guess Directv thinks differently than you too because they called the HR34 a "media server" when it first came out. Media Server would indicate the long term storage of large quantities of media for future playback. Directv only started calling the HR34, Genie when Dish called its big DVR, Hopper. Directv wanted to be able to say we have a cute name too. I personally think the reason the hard drives are small and we can't move them on Directv DVRs is that Directv makes a large profit off of PPVs and would rather have us buying and watching those than storing programming to watch later. I have the Premier package along with the HD packages. If I am patient my premium channels offer just about any movie I want and/or that Directv offers on PPV. This is how I stock my front projector Home Theater. I never buy PPVs and very seldom buy DVDs or Blu Rays unless it is something I want as a keepsake. I make the Premier programming package more than pay off for me. What I do now as a backup for my HR34 and HR24 is burn anything valuable to a DVD. I am not sure how much longer DVD burners or DVD players are going to be around though as there is only one factory left in China that make the chips for those. Everything is going Blu Ray or streaming. I have seen computer Blu Ray burners but have never seen a Home Theater component Blu Ray burner yet. My guess is that as the DVD burners are phased out we might start seeing those.


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

macfan601 said:


> I guess Directv thinks differently than you too because they called the HR34 a "media server" when it first came out. *Media Server would indicate the long term storage of large quantities of media for future playback.*


*Long term* storage would only apply to a media server you were actively backing up. Anyone that considers spinning disk without a backup strategy long term storage is not really thinking it through. What you're doing isnt backing up at all, its making a SD downrezzed copy, most likely from analog outputs....not anything remotely close to a backup.
:nono2:


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## macfan601 (May 4, 2012)

CCarncross said:


> *Long term* storage would only apply to a media server you were actively backing up. Anyone that considers spinning disk without a backup strategy long term storage is not really thinking it through. :nono2:


Oh I agree and that is why Directv is in the wrong here and should allow us to move the external hard drives. Until they put customers before profit I will use my DVD burner to do that. I guess I could use a second HR34 to do that as well, but oh wait, they have that screwed up from working right too.

I am going to state once again, I think Directv is currently the best TV service out there but I detest their business plan/model.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

macfan601 said:


> I guess Directv thinks differently than you too because they called the HR34 a "media server" when it first came out. Media Server would indicate the long term storage of large quantities of media for future playback.


To me, media server would indicate that it serves media (shows) to multiple destinations - nothing about long term storage.


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## macfan601 (May 4, 2012)

spartanstew said:


> To me, media server would indicate that it serves media (shows) to multiple destinations - nothing about long term storage.


LOL, just how could it serve media to multiple destinations without long term storage? DOH!!!! Using your definition Directv would have to take the hard drive out and instantly stream everything.

From the dictionary: By definition a media server is a device that simply stores and shares media


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

macfan601 said:


> LOL, just how could it serve media to multiple destinations without long term storage? DOH!!!! Using your definition Directv would have to take the hard drive out and instantly stream everything.
> 
> From the dictionary: By definition a media server is a device that simply stores and shares media


But long-term does not enter into that definition. None of us disagree with you about what a media server does. But I don't believe many of us agree with you about a media server being considered long-term storage. Again, long-term storage can only be achieved with a backup strategy, not an analog copy strategy. Maybe Directv at one time referred to it as a media server, I have always thought of it as nothing more than a 5-tuner DVR that could be turned into a whole home DVR with the clients, or just an enhancement to your existing Whole Home setup.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

macfan601 said:


> LOL, just how could it serve media to multiple destinations without long term storage? DOH!!!! Using your definition Directv would have to take the hard drive out and instantly stream everything.
> 
> From the dictionary: By definition a media server is a device that simply stores and shares media


And does Genie not store and share media?

My Genie serves my media to multiple destinations just fine.

You don't need long term storage to do that. LOL. or is it DOH?


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## macfan601 (May 4, 2012)

spartanstew said:


> And does Genie not store and share media?
> 
> My Genie serves my media to multiple destinations just fine.
> 
> You don't need long term storage to do that. LOL. or is it DOH?


It is going to be awfully tough to serve media that isn't long term stored. But each to their own. I use my HR34 (I hate the name Genie, sounds Disney like to me) to long term store/archive movies to supply my front projector Home Theater. Others use there DVR to time shift but that is not my thing. I have a hard drive attached to my router for short term storage. Media Share on a Directv box can see the hard drive attached to my router. I think the problem we have here is in definition of terms and in some here thinking their way is the only one way to use Directv equipment. Look at Rich and his multiple DVRs with external hard drives, certainly unusual, but it works for him.


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## Scott Kocourek (Jun 13, 2009)

Let's move along....


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

macfan601 said:


> It is going to be awfully tough to serve media that isn't long term stored.


Not tough at all, I do it everyday and so does my 7 year old. If he can figure it out........

I certainly don't think my way is the only way, but I also know the term Media Server does not imply Long Term Storage. Long Term Storage being anything over 1 month, IMO.


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## macfan601 (May 4, 2012)

spartanstew said:


> Not tough at all, I do it everyday and so does my 7 year old. If he can figure it out........
> 
> I certainly don't think my way is the only way, but I also know the term Media Server does not imply Long Term Storage. Long Term Storage being anything over 1 month, IMO.


I think that is exactly the problem. I am not sure I put much stock in your opinion. And if I may add is exactly why some people are leaving DBS and going to the other satellite forum. Just because some of you have thousands of posts and may or may not have some kind of connection with Directv does not make your opinion more right than other people's. I am happy for your 7 year old, but did not appreciate your put down. I have 3 earned college degrees and 31 years of teaching experience so I am no dummy. BTW, my subject was English Language and Literature so I understand completely my definition of terms.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

macfan601 said:


> I think that is exactly the problem. I am not sure I put much stock in your opinion. And if I may add is exactly why some people are leaving DBS and going to the other satellite forum. Just because some of you have thousands of posts and may or may not have some kind of connection with Directv does not make your opinion more right than other people's. I am happy for your 7 year old, but did not appreciate your put down. I have 3 earned college degrees and 31 years of teaching experience so I am no dummy. BTW, my subject was English Language and Literature so I understand completely my definition of terms.


If you're going to brag about your education and career in English, then maybe you should use commas properly to avoid run on sentences.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

He probably shouldn't start sentences with "and" either, and I think it should be "so I am not a dummy".

Then again, I didn't major in English - it was my minor.


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

:shrug:

Well, its days like these I'm embarrassed to be from Michigan. If you know anything about the poster's location, that also helps to explain it. :nono2:


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

The Merg said:


> DirecTV uses an encryption scheme that ties recordings to a specific receiver. DISH does not. Until DirecTV decides to redo their encryption scheme, which would most likely cost a lot of money, it's not going to happen.


If DIRECTV can make WHDS work, encryption is clearly a crimson colored kipper candidate.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

With due respect, my basset-faced friend, I find it unthinkable that you have evidence to back up that claim. Whole-home service does not in any way imply that locally stored encrypted files can be easily changed to be receiver-agnostic. 

If you are suggesting that it is possible to change things so that recordings are encrypted to the account not the individual receiver, I'd reply that with enough resources almost anything is possible. I would then ask you to cite the results of the cost analysis that you must have done to support the idea that making such a change would ever bring anything close to a return on investment.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Did the temperature in here just drop or what? :eek2:

Now we're fighting about what 'Long term storage' is? Must not be anything on TV this afternoon I guess!


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## gov (Jan 11, 2013)

I just figured if you could load up an external hard drive with 500 hours of HBO or Skinamax, you could let a buddy at work (who has D* but no premium channels) borrow the hard drive to watch movies and then no one in Hollywood gets $$$$ for his viewership.

The encryption key keeps that from happening??


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## ndole (Aug 26, 2009)

I can't remember.. who is it that has a fancy projector setup in their front room? I'm estoopid and cunfuz'd :lol:


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

gov said:


> I just figured if you could load up an external hard drive with 500 hours of HBO or Skinamax, you could let a buddy at work (who has D* but no premium channels) borrow the hard drive to watch movies and then no one in Hollywood gets $$$$ for his viewership.
> 
> The encryption key keeps that from happening??


If it were done, you couldn't play back on anything but the registered receiver or perhaps, DIRECTV account (i.e., any of the receivers registered to that account). Sure, you could take it over to your buddy's house and play it there, but you can physically do that now, though it's quite against the ToS.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

macfan601 said:


> LOL, just how could it serve media to multiple destinations without long term storage? DOH!!!! Using your definition Directv would have to take the hard drive out and instantly stream everything.
> 
> From the dictionary: By definition a media server is a device that simply stores and shares media


I agree with Mr. Stew. Long term doesn't come into the equation, nor has it been defined here for that matter.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Media server serves up media. No where is it truly designated and universally accepted by anyone everywhere what that media may be, or how its captured and sent and where its stored. 

In fact, Genie doesn't have to store a single min of anything on its hard drive to serve up media. It can send photos from your computer, music from Pandora, stream via the internet movies and tv shows, pump live stations, and even pull recorded shows from other machines, and distribute it to multiple tvs or sounds systems at the same time. 

That all makes it a media server without one second of stored media on its own hard drive.


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## macfan601 (May 4, 2012)

inkahauts said:


> Media server serves up media. No where is it truly designated and universally accepted by anyone everywhere what that media may be, or how its captured and sent and where its stored.
> 
> In fact, Genie doesn't have to store a single min of anything on its hard drive to serve up media. It can send photos from your computer, music from Pandora, stream via the internet movies and tv shows, pump live stations, and even pull recorded shows from other machines, and distribute it to multiple tvs or sounds systems at the same time.
> 
> That all makes it a media server without one second of stored media on its own hard drive.


You are correct as am I and others on here. According to PC Magazine there are many definitions of a media server. I think your definition might be #1 & #3 whereas my definition is #2.

Definition of: media server

(1) Software that makes audio and video files in the computer available on the network. For discovering files, media server software typically uses the Bonjour or UPnP protocols. For sharing files and playlists, they use DAAP or Windows Media Connect protocols. For example, iTunes uses Bonjour to discover and DAAP to share, while Windows Media Player uses UPnP and Windows Media Connect. See DAAP, UPnP, Bonjour, Windows Media Connect, Firefly, digital media hub and digital media server.

(2) Hardware that stores digital music, images and videos for a stereo or home theater. See digital media server and Windows Media Center.

(3) A computer system in a network that stores multimedia files for downloading over the Internet.

(4) A computer system in an IP telephony network that transmits dial tones, busy signals and announcements such as "the number you have called is no longer in service." The media server can be a separate unit or part of a softswitch (media gateway controller). See IP telephony.


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## Rickt1962 (Jul 17, 2012)

yall2 said:


> I guess u use ur dvr different than me. I don't concider it as an archive. At most I keep shows for a couple of weeks before I watch them and delete.


I do. I have a Home Theater Setup and use that as part of my Movie Library. tore my DVR apart and installed a 2 terabyte. Would of installed a 3 but Directv firmware in my unit doesnt see it.


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## Rickt1962 (Jul 17, 2012)

macfan601 said:


> I guess Directv thinks differently than you too because they called the HR34 a "media server" when it first came out. Media Server would indicate the long term storage of large quantities of media for future playback. Directv only started calling the HR34, Genie when Dish called its big DVR, Hopper. Directv wanted to be able to say we have a cute name too. I personally think the reason the hard drives are small and we can't move them on Directv DVRs is that Directv makes a large profit off of PPVs and would rather have us buying and watching those than storing programming to watch later. I have the Premier package along with the HD packages. If I am patient my premium channels offer just about any movie I want and/or that Directv offers on PPV. This is how I stock my front projector Home Theater. I never buy PPVs and very seldom buy DVDs or Blu Rays unless it is something I want as a keepsake. I make the Premier programming package more than pay off for me. What I do now as a backup for my HR34 and HR24 is burn anything valuable to a DVD. I am not sure how much longer DVD burners or DVD players are going to be around though as there is only one factory left in China that make the chips for those. Everything is going Blu Ray or streaming. I have seen computer Blu Ray burners but have never seen a Home Theater component Blu Ray burner yet. My guess is that as the DVD burners are phased out we might start seeing those.


Just found this online this morning http://www.hauppauge.com/site/products/data_hdpvr2.html

Im going to check it out sounds better then burning disks !


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Stuart Sweet said:


> With due respect, my basset-faced friend, I find it unthinkable that you have evidence to back up that claim. Whole-home service does not in any way imply that locally stored encrypted files can be easily changed to be receiver-agnostic.


How do you suppose that WHDS allows encrypted content from one machine to be played on another machine in real time? My theory holds that the client receives a key as part of the handshake with the server and the rest is history.

I don't have direct evidence or documentation, but I have block diagrams of chipsets and reason that seem to support my theory.

Do you have insight or documentation that suggests that the server DVR somehow re-encrypts the stream using a different key or the clients own key? I'm pretty sure there isn't the hardware in there to do that. The Genie would need to re-encrypt "up to" three such streams simultaneously. Yes, I assume that the transmitted streams are encrypted but I don't think that's an unreasonable assumption in this day and age of DRM.


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## macfan601 (May 4, 2012)

Rickt1962 said:


> Just found this online this morning http://www.hauppauge.com/site/products/data_hdpvr2.html
> 
> Im going to check it out sounds better then burning disks !


Smiles, actually I have a Black Magic, HDMI/1080p, video/audio capture card in my Mac Pro tower that I, ahemmmmm, usually don't talk about, besides my DVD burner in my computer, as well as my stand alone DVD burner. The Black Magic card works great and shall we say captures "everything", wink. Black Magic makes one for the PC too. It is more of a professional card that is used in Hollywood type work so you won't find it at Wally World but any "good" computer supply store should have it.


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## Rickt1962 (Jul 17, 2012)

macfan601 said:


> Smiles, actually I have a Black Magic, HDMI/1080p, video/audio capture card in my Mac Pro tower that I, ahemmmmm, usually don't talk about, besides my DVD burner in my computer, as well as my stand alone DVD burner. The Black Magic card works great and shall we say captures "everything", wink. Black Magic makes one for the PC too. It is more of a professional card that is used in Hollywood type work so you won't find it at Wally World but any "good" computer supply store should have it.


Thanks !  IL hav to check it out !


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## JohnTSmith (Dec 5, 2009)

Well, after reading all the replies and discussions and replies to discussions about what "brand x" does and what DTV woulda-coulda-shoulda done with recordings, I am still of the mind that I am VERY unlikely to switch from separate DVR boxes to a Genie

IF DirecTV ever changes (doesn't sound likely, from what I've read here) I might consider a Genie and a "hot swap" drive enclosure with automatic backup so a single drive dying doesn't mean everything is lost... probably not going to happen

Staying with my 4 DVR boxes is what I see for the future

PS - I don't have/need one, but I see various Black Magic devices mentioned in the Adobe Premiere support forum... they seem like good products, except when Adobe comes out with a new Premiere version and BM takes awhile to catch up with new device drivers


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

JohnTSmith said:


> I am still of the mind that I am VERY unlikely to switch from separate DVR boxes to a Genie


Which still makes no sense to me.


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## joed32 (Jul 27, 2006)

I have 5 DVRs and I'm quite happy with every thing the way it is as well. No need for a Genie.


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## eddieras (Aug 31, 2007)

i have two DVRs and whole home set up - i hate that i can't manage both from one location. having the genie would eliminate this problem, but i'm trying to figure out the difference for my usage. am i correct that size-wise the two HR 24's have the same recording capacity as the one genie? are there any clear features gained or lost if i made the switch? of course the extra tuner... thanks for any additional insight!


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Same drive capacity and number of series links as 2 HR24s. However the 34 does support larger external SATA drives. The 24 maxes out at 2TB, the 34 currently has no known max.

I really can't think of anything the 24 can do that the 34 can't, other than working in a non SWM setup.


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## johnp37 (Sep 14, 2006)

joed32 said:


> I have 5 DVRs and I'm quite happy with every thing the way it is as well. No need for a Genie.


Likewise. If a Genie goes kaput, no TV.Other than 5 tuners I don't see the attraction. If it becomes necessary, I'll just set one of my other 4 DVRs to record. No biggie.


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