# DISH to release the 411 receiver by end of the month?



## SummitAdvantageRetailer

I was bombarded by customers so I couldn't watch the Retailer Chat too well but did any other retailer catch that they're releasing the 411 by the end of the month? They didn't announce a new satellite launch for MPEG4, though. And how come no one did a retailer chat recap this time?! It was chock full of info.


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## Jason Nipp

Don't need a new bird. Technically they could use the same sat for both MPEG2 and 4 simultaneously from what I have come to understand.


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## digiblur

SummitAdvantageRetailer said:


> I was bombarded by customers so I couldn't watch the Retailer Chat too well but did any other retailer catch that they're releasing the 411 by the end of the month? They didn't announce a new satellite launch for MPEG4, though. And how come no one did a retailer chat recap this time?! It was chock full of info.


Yep... no new bird needed. They could even run analog on the transponders if they wanted, as long as you had an analog receiver to pick it up.


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## JohnH

digiblur said:


> Yep... no new bird needed. They could even run analog on the transponders if they wanted, as long as you had an analog receiver to pick it up.


If analog were legal in the DBS band.

Yep, they can even intermix Mpeg2 and H.264(Mpeg4) on the same transponder.


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## rocatman

JohnH said:


> If analog were legal in the DBS band.
> 
> Yep, they can even intermix Mpeg2 and H.264(Mpeg4) on the same transponder.


Correct me if I am wrong but I don't think they could intermix QPSK and 8PSK on the same transponder.


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## SummitAdvantageRetailer

I actually meant to ask where (which satellite and transponders) the new MPEG4 satellite programming will be uplinked and available from. Right now, there are only test channels uplinked but no HD LIL MPEG4 channels uplinked. They didn't mention where the new MPEG4 channels would come from and you bet I'm VERY curious.


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## JohnH

rocatman said:


> Correct me if I am wrong but I don't think they could intermix QPSK and 8PSK on the same transponder.


That is correct. QPSK and 8PSK are modulation techniques. Mpeg2 and H.264(Mpeg4) are encoding techniques.


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## JohnH

SummitAdvantageRetailer said:


> I actually meant to ask where (which satellite and transponders) the new MPEG4 satellite programming will be uplinked and available from. Right now, there are only test channels uplinked but no HD LIL MPEG4 channels uplinked. They didn't mention where the new MPEG4 channels would come from and you bet I'm VERY curious.


It's a secret. As far as Digital Locals are concerned, they may not actually know either. The plan for those may still be in formation. We have seen what appears to be some HD Distant Networks activity on EchoStar 5, but they have not said that is the plan for those.


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## juan ellitinez

JohnH said:


> If analog were legal in the DBS band.
> 
> Yep, they can even intermix Mpeg2 and H.264(Mpeg4) on the same transponder.


 I know this queston would be rediculed at the "other" site...If they were to put 3 HD channels on a transponder .would they be able to encode them mpeg2 and mpeg4 simutaneously..or would they have to put two different verisions( mpeg2 and mpeg4) of the same channel taking up twice as much bandwidth?


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## JohnH

juan ellitinez said:


> I know this queston would be rediculed at the "other" site...If they were to put 3 HD channels on a transponder .would they be able to encode them mpeg2 and mpeg4 simutaneously..or would they have to put two different verisions( mpeg2 and mpeg4) of the same channel taking up twice as much bandwidth?


The latter, but it would not take as much as twice the bandwidth of an Mpeg2 channel.

3 HD channels would likely not fit.


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## tnsprin

Apparently they showed a 411 and a 211vip. Anyone now anything about the 211vip, other then it has an ethernet adapter (for future use).


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## James Long

juan ellitinez said:


> I know this queston would be rediculed at the "other" site...If they were to put 3 HD channels on a transponder .would they be able to encode them mpeg2 and mpeg4 simutaneously..or would they have to put two different verisions( mpeg2 and mpeg4) of the same channel taking up twice as much bandwidth?


The best solution would be to encode it in MPEG2 only or MPEG4 only. MPEG4 receivers could get both types of channels. MPEG2 receivers would just get the MPEG2 channels. Whether they choose MPEG2 or MPEG4 depends on the audience. (E* has announced plans to make all new HD MPEG4.)

E* CAN mix MPEG2 and MPEG4 on the same transponder - and newer receivers can pick up 8PSK receivers - so if E* wanted to introduce new channels in 8PSK/MPEG2 and upgrade receivers as needed for old subscribers they could. (8PSK can put 18 SD channels in the space of 12.)

JL


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## James Long

tnsprin said:


> Apparently they showed a 411 and a 211vip. Anyone now anything about the 211vip, other then it has an ethernet adapter (for future use).


Update: Based on Tech Forum -

The 411 and 211 will be released within a week or two - both to replace the 811 (Basic HD receiver) in the shift to MPEG4. The 211 is the newer model.

Evidently between the design of the 411 and now they came up with a reason for an ethernet port, which is only on the 211. Given the choice of just these two I'd look at the one with more ports. 

(But I'm holding out for a "422" or a DVR anyways so 211 vs 411 doesn't matter to me.)

JL


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## invaliduser88

James Long said:


> Update: Based on Tech Forum -
> 
> Evidently between the design of the 411 and now they came up with a reason for an ethernet port, which is only on the 211. Given the choice of just these two I'd look at the one with more ports.
> 
> JL


Marketing BS...Report viewing habits...other privacy abuses?

I'd like to see DVR's with ethernet to allow programming to be moved between them to view on other TV in my house other than the one that I originally recorded it on.


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## Jason Nipp

I eagerly await the ethernet port and it's full functionality. I like the ideas behind it. Now if they can get those ideas fully functional?


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## UTFAN

I don't watch Tech Forums, engineers talking to other engineers. Hate to critizize. but ya'll make it even more complicated.

At the risk of sounding obtuse, I have a 921, (yes, I know it's a lemon but it works generally good most of the time) will I be able to get additional HD channels or will I have to fork out more money for a receiver to handle what ever the latest technology is?

I just like to come home and watch TV, I don't care from which satellite, just need to know my options.

Thanks to whomever can translate gooblygook into English!

UTFAN
(See everyone at the Rose Bowl!)


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## olgeezer

UTFAN said:


> I don't watch Tech Forums, engineers talking to other engineers. Hate to critizize. but ya'll make it even more complicated.
> 
> At the risk of sounding obtuse, I have a 921, (yes, I know it's a lemon but it works generally good most of the time) will I be able to get additional HD channels or will I have to fork out more money for a receiver to handle what ever the latest technology is?
> 
> I just like to come home and watch TV, I don't care from which satellite, just need to know my options.
> 
> Thanks to whomever can translate gooblygook into English!
> 
> UTFAN
> (See everyone at the Rose Bowl!)


My brother Jim lived in Westcliffe, raised some alpacas and caused other mayhem a few years ago. The answer is yes soon maybe


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## Jason Nipp

James Long said:


> Update: Based on Tech Forum -
> 
> The 411 and 211 will be released within a week or two - both to replace the 811 (Basic HD receiver) in the shift to MPEG4. The 211 is the newer model.
> 
> Evidently between the design of the 411 and now they came up with a reason for an ethernet port, which is only on the 211. Given the choice of just these two I'd look at the one with more ports.
> 
> (But I'm holding out for a "422" or a DVR anyways so 211 vs 411 doesn't matter to me.)
> 
> JL


Just for clarification, It is my understanding that the 411 and the 211 are the same product. They decided to use 211 for the product nomenclature in lieu of 411.


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## Mikey

Jason Nipp said:


> Just for clarification, It is my understanding that the 411 and the 211 are the same product. They decided to use 211 for the product nomenclature in lieu of 411.


I understood from the Retailer Chat that they are indeed two different receivers.


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## Jason Nipp

Only the ethernet connector distingishes the two, which Jackson explained. The 211 is the final released product. The 411 will not be mass produced. Again, this is just my understanding.


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## LASooner

Is there any spec sheet online for these boxes?


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## James Long

Jason - Thanks for the clarification. The body language did seem to lean toward the 211 being the final and the 411 being the same functionally as the 211 but with an undesired number.

Perhaps someone can loan them a Sharpie and they can just relabel any 411's that have come off of the line.  Perhaps the 411 will become a collectors item, such as those stamps printed upside down. (Or at least when they hit eBay they will be sold as rare.  )

JL


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## Jason Nipp

LASooner said:


> Is there any spec sheet online for these boxes?


Not yet. AFAIK


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## Richard King

> Perhaps the 411 will become a collectors item


If you want a REAL collector's item you need to find one of those combo Dish receivers/DVD players they showed a few years back. :lol:


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## Jacob S

Charlie probably has a lot of those receivers in his own personal collection that were never released.

What did they do make a small amount of 411 receivers before realizing that they wanted to add some things to it such as the ethernet port and decide to release some to deplete what stock of them they have then sell the 211 after that?


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## SummitAdvantageRetailer

Update: No 411's or 211's in stock at the local Echosphere office in MD as of today. It looks like they're pushing the release date to maybe as far back as middle of Dec.


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## tegage

I would really like to replace my 625 with a HD DVR. I haven't purchased a 942 due to the speculation that a MPEG 4 version would be out by the end of this year. Does the 411 announcement signal the start of this change such that a 962 might be around the corner?

I'm getting tired of watching my favorite shows in SD, but I refuse to watch them live ever since installing my 625. If the MPEG 4 version is going to be awhile, I'll take the risk and get a 942. 

Any prognosticators out there?


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## Mikey

tegage said:


> I would really like to replace my 625 with a HD DVR. I haven't purchased a 942 due to the speculation that a MPEG 4 version would be out by the end of this year. Does the 411 announcement signal the start of this change such that a 962 might be around the corner?
> 
> I'm getting tired of watching my favorite shows in SD, but I refuse to watch them live ever since installing my 625. If the MPEG 4 version is going to be awhile, I'll take the risk and get a 942.
> 
> Any prognosticators out there?


Crystal ball says "Get the 942!" MPEG-4 isn't giving E* the bandwidth gains they had hoped for. MPEG-2 will stay around for a while longer.


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## navychop

I am waiting for the 962. I figure that "new" HD subscribers might have access to the 962 before current 942 users. Plus, it may be cheaper to go directly to a 962 rather than to a 942, then 962. 

But if the additional 11 Voom channels to be added in ?January? are in MPEG-2, then maybe that will mean the 962 is much further out than previously expected, and I may have to rethink my decision. But I have so much recorded now on my 721 to watch, and so much less time over the holidays to watch, that I can easily wait until January or even later to reconsider.

Hopefully, the 962 will be out by the time Blu-Ray is out.


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## treiher

Maybe I didn't hear this right, but I got the impression from the last tech forum that they are having real trouble coming up with an MPEG-4 DVR (a.k.a. 962). I believe they said the chip sets just don't exist yet to handle that, and I think I also heard something about maybe a year or two before the technology will exist? Even if it is going to take that long, if the technology exists to make non-DVR receivers today (211 and 411) it makes sense for them to get them out ASAP. The fewer non MPEG-4 receivers out there now means the fewer receivers which will need to be replaced in the future. But I can't imagine them coming out with MPEG-4 content, and you have to have only a non-DVR unit to view it. Based on that, I expect any new HD content to be in MPEG-2 for awhile, maybe for quite awhile. Who knows for sure what they are thinking, though! Could easily be wrong about this, just my two cents.


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## Ron Barry

The point that was made at the tech forum was dealing with the encoding of the MPEG4 not the chips in the MPEG4 HD DVRS. Upstream issue with live content not a receiver issue. There was no mention of issues in the deployment of an MPEG4 HD DVR that I am aware of.


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## Mikey

treiher said:


> Maybe I didn't hear this right, but I got the impression from the last tech forum that they are having real trouble coming up with an MPEG-4 DVR (a.k.a. 962). I believe they said the chip sets just don't exist yet to handle that, and I think I also heard something about maybe a year or two before the technology will exist? Even if it is going to take that long, if the technology exists to make non-DVR receivers today (211 and 411) it makes sense for them to get them out ASAP. The fewer non MPEG-4 receivers out there now means the fewer receivers which will need to be replaced in the future. But I can't imagine them coming out with MPEG-4 content, and you have to have only a non-DVR unit to view it. Based on that, I expect any new HD content to be in MPEG-2 for awhile, maybe for quite awhile. Who knows for sure what they are thinking, though! Could easily be wrong about this, just my two cents.


I think the issue with MPEG-4 is with real-time encoders (from the ground stations), not chip sets in the recievers. If they can make a non-DVR receiver, they can make a MPEG-4 DVR.


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## treiher

Mikey said:


> I think the issue with MPEG-4 is with real-time encoders (from the ground stations), not chip sets in the recievers. If they can make a non-DVR receiver, they can make a MPEG-4 DVR.


 OK, fair enough. Guess that makes sense. Probably more wishful thinking on my part since I just got a 942!


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## James Long

treiher said:


> Maybe I didn't hear this right, but I got the impression from the last tech forum that they are having real trouble coming up with an MPEG-4 DVR (a.k.a. 962).


All their "not ready" statements focused on the encoders --

Here is what they said about MPEG4 and HD:
http://dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=473169&postcount=9

It is part of the last Tech Forum summary - found here:
http://dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=48091

JL


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## PrivateIdaho

I tried to get a 942 last week. Ended up talking to Executive Support. They informed me they are trying to limit the release of the 942 becuase the mpeg4 replacement will be ready in June. She said the 811 replacement is currently in production.

From what I got from our conversation, D* is really trying to restrict the deployment of mpeg2 HD receivers so they don't have to replace as many in the field since they are so close to the mpeg4 replacements.

I asked her about content in mpeg4 and she said that was further off, but once the newer receivers are out there they would upgrade the remaining mpeg2 HD receivers and do a quick cut over of mpeg2 HD brodcast and replace it with mpeg4.


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## SummitAdvantageRetailer

PrivateIdaho said:


> I tried to get a 942 last week. Ended up talking to Executive Support. They informed me they are trying to limit the release of the 942 becuase the mpeg4 replacement will be ready in June. She said the 811 replacement is currently in production.
> 
> From what I got from our conversation, D* is really trying to restrict the deployment of mpeg2 HD receivers so they don't have to replace as many in the field since they are so close to the mpeg4 replacements.
> 
> I asked her about content in mpeg4 and she said that was further off, but once the newer receivers are out there they would upgrade the remaining mpeg2 HD receivers and do a quick cut over of mpeg2 HD brodcast and replace it with mpeg4.


Haha, a "quick cut"? We have quite a few 811 customers and it'll take at least a couple months to swap them all out to the 411/211's should they implement a MPEG2 -> MPEG4 upgrade program.


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## SummitAdvantageRetailer

Update:

The 411 AND ViP211 receivers BOTH will be made available on 12/15/05 for retailers. That means you can call your retailers on that day on to purchase or order your 411/ViP211 receivers. 

The MSRP should be the same for both but have not been announced.

New customers will pay a $49.99 upgrade if they choose either the 411 or the ViP211 receiver over the 811 receiver. So if you want the 411 or ViP211 receiver, you have to pay $49.99 to upgrade over the 811 receiver option plus any other fees associated with DHA (activation and shipping fee, if applicable).


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## Ghostwriter

Why would they ask for a $50 upgrade fee??? Wouldn't it be in their best intrest just to stop putting MPEG2 receivers out to new customers?!?!


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## chris03053

UTFAN said:


> I don't watch Tech Forums, engineers talking to other engineers. Hate to critizize. but ya'll make it even more complicated.
> 
> At the risk of sounding obtuse, I have a 921, (yes, I know it's a lemon but it works generally good most of the time) will I be able to get additional HD channels or will I have to fork out more money for a receiver to handle what ever the latest technology is?
> 
> I just like to come home and watch TV, I don't care from which satellite, just need to know my options.
> 
> Thanks to whomever can translate gooblygook into English!
> 
> UTFAN
> (See everyone at the Rose Bowl!)


I didn't see a respond to this question, about the people with the 921s, do we have to get new recievers? Thanks


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## James Long

Not yet. Not until MPEG4 programming is announced and you want to subscribe to it.

JL


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## Dang The Hung

I just received a call this morning from Dish Network asking if I wanted upgrade my current HD receiver to the new HD receiver. I asked if it was the new MPEG4 receiver and replied that he didn't know off hand, but he said the reason for the call was that I am a long time customer and noticed that I had phone line issues with my current receivers (which promted the gestapo audit team fiasco) and said that the new receivers only need a power outlet connection to "dial out" smart card info. I assume he was talking about the dish comm feature on the newer receivers, which I also assumed were MPEG4 as well. I declined his offer, saying I was wanting to wait for a comfirmation that the swicth to MPEG4 was being done and to see the new receivers for myself. He then pointed me to the website to get info on the new receivers and to call back when I am ready to upgrade. He did state however that the upgrade was a lease only.


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## derwin0

Dang The Hung said:


> He then pointed me to the website to get info on the new receivers


Which website?


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## slundy

Mikey said:


> Crystal ball says "Get the 942!" MPEG-4 isn't giving E* the bandwidth gains they had hoped for. MPEG-2 will stay around for a while longer.


Does your crystal ball say anything about a price reduction on the 942 with the intro
of the new HD receivers(even though they are not DVRS?)?


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## James Long

:welcome_s slundy

Magic 8 Ball says: "Ask again"

I'm guessing that means after the new receivers are introduced. 

JL


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## dclay1216

What are the differences between the 411 and the 211? Would this mean that they would stop allowing customers to purchase the 942/921 due to upcoming replacement issues?


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## James Long

:welcome_s dclay1216

The 411/Vip211 are both single tuner non-DVRs. The 942/921 are dual tuner DVRs. It is a safe bet that the 942 will be available until after a new DVR comes out.

JL


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## Dang The Hung

derwin0 said:


> Which website?


 dishnetwork's website


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## Mikey

slundy said:


> Does your crystal ball say anything about a price reduction on the 942 with the intro
> of the new HD receivers(even though they are not DVRS?)?


Crystal ball is silent on that one.

Welcome to the site. :welcome_s


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## churoval

derwin0 said:


> Which website?


I found some info on the 211/411 on the Dishnetwork website tech portal at http://tech.dishnetwork.com/departmental_content/TechPortal/content/tech/receiver/411.shtml


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## James Long

:welcome_s churoval - thanks for coming out of lurk!
I've made your link clickable. (New posters can't do links - it cuts down on spammers.)

James


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## saweetnesstrev

HDTV Digital Audio/Video output (HDTV TV1)


HDMI OUTPUT!??!? is this for real?? and does this mean i still have to have a Optical Cable to my receiver?


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## James Long

HDMI carries audio, so if your receiver is connected to the HDMI the optical shouldn't be needed.

JL


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## LtMunst

James Long said:


> HDMI carries audio, so if your receiver is connected to the HDMI the optical shouldn't be needed.
> 
> JL


On the 942, the HDMI does not pass 5.1 audio, only 2.0.


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## James Long

LtMunst said:


> On the 942, the HDMI does not pass 5.1 audio, only 2.0.


Thanks for the update. Experience beats the specs.

(My audio amp is separate from my display so that means separate cables for me anyways.)

JL


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## saweetnesstrev

Yes i have HDMI input on my tv!! dish moved from dvi to hdmi! GJ GJ,, but theres no point in hdmi if you have a receiver and speakers, so why have hdmi in the first place?  ty ty


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## LtMunst

saweetnesstrev said:


> Yes i have HDMI input on my tv!! dish moved from dvi to hdmi! GJ GJ,, but theres no point in hdmi if you have a receiver and speakers, so why have hdmi in the first place?  ty ty


Probably because it is the best input/output for Video.


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## harsh

LtMunst said:


> Probably because it is the best input/output for Video.


I prefer to think of it as being better standardized than DVI which had three incompatible connectors that all looked the same at a distance.

The inclusion of audio is arguably confusing as the lion's share of users current and near future don't have access to displays with built-in >5 channel surround sound. I've never been big on routing signals, be they analog or digital, through various un-related devices to get where they are going. My thinking will undoubtedly be heavily influenced by the availability of affordable HDMI endowed pre-amps or receivers.

Further, the more conductors that you have running between two devices, the more opportunities for collateral damage.


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## dishdude

saweetnesstrev said:


> Yes i have HDMI input on my tv!! dish moved from dvi to hdmi! GJ GJ,, but theres no point in hdmi if you have a receiver and speakers, so why have hdmi in the first place?  ty ty


I'm pretty sure DVI isn't speced tight enought to allow for 1080p while HDMI will be able to support it


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## saweetnesstrev

dishdude said:


> I'm pretty sure DVI isn't speced tight enought to allow for 1080p while HDMI will be able to support it


ah cool


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## BrettTRay

I know the DVI-D Single Link won't but will the DVI-D Dual Link?


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## jerryez

So, the end of November has come and gone. Has anyone bought a 411 or 211 receiver.


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## James Long

Last date heard was December 15th ... not quite "the end of the month" for a thread started November 10th, but close.

JL


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## RichMert

churoval said:


> I found some info on the 211/411 on the Dishnetwork website tech portal at http://tech.dishnetwork.com/departmental_content/TechPortal/content/tech/receiver/411.shtml


thanks for the link. this is what it says about the new ota tuner:

Integrated 8VSB off-air digital tuner. Explain

For reception of off-air digital broadcasts (including high-definition). Analog off-air pass through on coax TV Set Out only.

has anyone reported whether or not they have put a new tuner in the new models or if it is the same one as in the 811?

my 811 really seems to struggle with interpreting my locals sometimes. it will go right to 49% and bounce around a while and then either say no signal or jump to 80% and give me the channel. i know it must be the info the local stations are sending because it doesnt happen all the time but i was using a MYHD card before the 811 and it didnt have any problems picking up locals.

could this be fixed with a new tuner? or maybe new software? and does either the 411 or 211 have either?

thanks


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## nsafreak

dishdude said:


> I'm pretty sure DVI isn't speced tight enought to allow for 1080p while HDMI will be able to support it


Incorrect. DVI will support 1080P and beyond. Insofar as video specifications are concerned they are the same for DVI & HDMI.


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## BrettTRay

Check this out : http://www.l-com.com/content/VideoTutorial.aspx


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## saweetnesstrev

Tryed to order a 411 today and has some problems,, girl said she was not seeing 411 so she looked and said its not out till the 15th so i ordered it and already paid for,, 100 Dollars and 5 Dollar Lease,, Free Extra Satellite Dish cause i request 2 Local Channels!, So HDNET and Voom here i come... I have to call Thursday and Request 411 and its already paid for so it should go fast..  THIS IS HAPPY DAY  Does dish supply a HDMI cable or do i supply my own? also would 411 be M to M or M to F or F to F


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## SummitAdvantageRetailer

No HDMI, Component, or DVI cable included with the receiver.


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## saweetnesstrev

Thanks Advantage Retailer


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## SummitAdvantageRetailer

You're welcome. And if you're wondering why... DISH told us retailers that many customers end up replacing the cables that come with the receiver so they're going to leave the HD (DVI, HDMI, and/or Component) cables out. Other cables such as RG-59 coax, S-Video, Composite, and phone cables should still ship with the receiver.


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## UTFAN

olgeezer said:


> My brother Jim lived in Westcliffe, raised some alpacas and caused other mayhem a few years ago. The answer is yes soon maybe


I'm in charge of Mayhem now. It's tough work but someone has to do it.


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## mth

SummitAdvantageRetailer said:


> You're welcome. And if you're wondering why... DISH told us retailers that many customers end up replacing the cables that come with the receiver so they're going to leave the HD (DVI, HDMI, and/or Component) cables out. Other cables such as RG-59 coax, S-Video, Composite, and phone cables should still ship with the receiver.


Good forum (I found it googling for info on "dish network 411".)

I ordered dish about a week ago, scheduled installation for Monday. Monday comes, my installer calls, "we went to the warehouse and they didn't have any 811's, so I'm getting one overnighted."

He calls back on Tuesday and says, "they're not using that one anymore. They're upgrading to something called the 411 which we can't get until Thursday."

Well, I thought he was jerking me around -- I mean, 2 weeks before Christmas and I can't get a HD receiver for Dish Network? What the hell?

But, it seems like he was right on -- doing me a favor. And he's waiving the $50 fee -- which I was never informed of when I signed up for Dish, so I think that that's fair.

Bummer to hear about the lack of component video cable, though. There goes that $50 he waived.

Apparently, I'm getting one of the bigger dishes, too. The installer is going to run separate RG-6's from my rooftop antenna and the dish to forego use of a diplexer.


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## dsanbo

When I talked with a Dish rep yesterday (Tuesday) he told me the 411 was "now called the 211"....????! I thought these were 2 completely different receivers.../! He went on to say the Dec. 15th rollout date "is incorrect...it's going to be early January..."
Can anyone sort this out? I'd like to update my 811 with MPEG4 compatibility ASAP, so I don't end up "standing in line" when the "crunch" comes later on....
TIA!


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## mth

dsanbo said:


> When I talked with a Dish rep yesterday (Tuesday) he told me the 411 was "now called the 211"....????! I thought these were 2 completely different receivers.../! He went on to say the Dec. 15th rollout date "is incorrect...it's going to be early January..."
> Can anyone sort this out? I'd like to update my 811 with MPEG4 compatibility ASAP, so I don't end up "standing in line" when the "crunch" comes later on....
> TIA!


I think my installer told me he had a whole pallet of the 411s ready for Thursday.

Perhaps he said, "I'm getting a whole pallet" which leaves some wiggle room. But yesterday he told me that Friday morning, I'll be hooked up (I won't be home on Thursday which is when he could have done it).


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## Mikey

dsanbo said:


> When I talked with a Dish rep yesterday (Tuesday) he told me the 411 was "now called the 211"....????! I thought these were 2 completely different receivers.../! He went on to say the Dec. 15th rollout date "is incorrect...it's going to be early January..."
> Can anyone sort this out? I'd like to update my 811 with MPEG4 compatibility ASAP, so I don't end up "standing in line" when the "crunch" comes later on....
> TIA!


The 211 is a 411, except the 211 includes a (disabled) Ethernet port.


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## James Long

Mikey said:


> The 211 is a 411, except the 211 includes a (disabled) Ethernet port.


Probably better to call the port "unused" instead of disabled. Disabled may lead one to believe that it did something and was turned off. Unused is more accurate.

JL


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## Tom in TX

James Long said:


> Probably better to call the port "unused" instead of disabled. Disabled may lead one to believe that it did something and was turned off. Unused is more accurate.
> 
> JL


Since Dish has not "officially" called the port "unused", your statement is not accurate. It is just a "rumor" that the port is unused. If you want to deal in facts, and not rumors, you should go to the official Dish site which states "Ethernet port for future use(211 only)". Speculation and rumor can be fun, but I've seen many people read what is said here, and base their decisions on the inaccurate information provided!  
Tom in TX


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## stonecold

I know a perfect use for it. Dish could use the 211 eithernet port for AC Nielson Ratings. Let the box keep track of what your watching and when. all goes to AC Nielson tv ratings . 
Other options that could go along with the first.

Download guide information over the net and software updates over the net instead of over the Satellite. Broadband beeing faster than what potential the satellite can push down. (in most cases no all)

Save on Transponder bandwith. goes with the option above if they could add eithernet jacks to all mpeg4 boxes and they could have the option using the sat or the eithernet well there might be something too it. Eventually dish could phase out alot of bandwith just by the broadband expasion in the US.

Remote setup of timers and vcr recordings

Also it could be a way for Dish to have th recievers phone home with out having to have a phone line connected.

These were just some random thoughts.


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## James Long

Tom in TX said:


> Since Dish has not "officially" called the port "unused", your statement is not accurate.


Certainly more accurate than "disabled", especially when the 'future use' has not been hinted at by those who might know.

JL


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## Stewart Vernon

Tom in TX said:


> Since Dish has not "officially" called the port "unused", your statement is not accurate. It is just a "rumor" that the port is unused. If you want to deal in facts, and not rumors, you should go to the official Dish site which states "Ethernet port for future use(211 only)". Speculation and rumor can be fun, but I've seen many people read what is said here, and base their decisions on the inaccurate information provided!
> Tom in TX


I heard a rumor today...

From now on, all rumors will actually be fact and all reported facts will be considered rumor.


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## Mikey

James Long said:


> Certainly more accurate than "disabled", especially when the 'future use' has not been hinted at by those who might know.
> 
> JL


Well, since I come from a background of embedded code, I use the term "disabled" when a function of the board is disabled by the firmware.

And, heres a hint from Dish tech support about the future use of the 211 Ethernet port:



Dish Network said:


> Dear Valued Customer,
> Thank you for your recent inquiry online. We are glad that you
> have expressed interest in our new SD/HD receiver the VIP211.
> Unfortunately at this time we do not have any information regarding the
> Ethernet port other than that it will be used for the future expansion
> of features on this receiver and will not be used at this time.
> I don't have specifics, but *I believe it will be used to make
> your TV more interactive with features such as fantasy sports and other
> online information and features and possibly some networking abilities.*
> We will most likely issue a press release when the Ethernet port becomes
> and active function on the VIP211 which are usually published in major
> city newspapers. You can also sign up for our email newsletter online
> by logging into your account and choosing to edit your online info, then
> toward the bottom of the page there is a box you can check to sign up
> then just submit the request. Also, most of our local retailers will
> have displays setup for demonstration that you can stop by and view.
> Perhaps these retailers will have more information about what the
> Ethernet port will be used for. If you want to find the nearest
> retailer in your area please visit this site
> http://www.dishnetwork.com/locator/retailer/index.asp and enter your zip
> code.
> I'm sorry I don't have all the information regarding your
> question. I hope this email was somewhat informative for you. Our
> website will also have more information in the future as we begin to use
> that port, but I do not have a launch date for when that will happen.
> You may want to check back with us for updates concerning the VIP211 at
> http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/products/receivers/HD/index.shtml.
> This link should take you to our HD receiver home page, but currently
> there is no information posted about the VIP211. Thanks again for
> visiting us online.
> 
> Thank you,
> xxxx xxxx
> Technical Support Specialist
> [email protected]


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## thxultra

I can see them useing the port to offer on demand content as well. It is really the only way sat can compete with cable as far as on demand is concerned.


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## Jason Nipp

I have been told the 411's will be available starting tomorrow, December 15th.


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## saweetnesstrev

Cant wait i gotta call tommorow and request 411, its already paid for !!!


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## James Long

Mikey said:


> Well, since I come from a background of embedded code, I use the term "disabled" when a function of the board is disabled by the firmware.


I'll give you "not enabled" - which is closer since the software has not been written to recognize the ethernet port. "disabled" still sounds too much like "it functions but we turned it off". It just has not been turned on.


saweetnesstrev said:


> Cant wait i gotta call tommorow and request 411, its already paid for !!!


The price hasn't been announced (or are you guessing "the same as a 811"?).

Note that DishNetwork's page here doesn't give any availability for the 811. (They dropped the model number from that page a few weeks ago and E*'s own "get dish" ordering site dropped the 811 from their package sumaries within the past couple of days.)

That being said, I hope you get one soon.

JL


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## jeslevine

Jason Nipp said:


> I have been told the 411's will be available starting tomorrow, December 15th.


Thanks


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## Ghostwriter

Well I am in no rush to get the 411. Personally I believe only the new HD locals will come out in MPEG4 so I have no use for it at this time. Anyway lets see if its buggy!


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## technoguy

Be carefull with the 411 (rumors) this unit have glitches(921 owners can tell you) the MSPR for both units is $399.00.:eek2:


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## saweetnesstrev

technoguy said:


> Be carefull with the 411 (rumors) this unit have glitches(921 owners can tell you) the MSPR for both units is $399.00.:eek2:


100 Dollars and 5 dollars a month for me


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## James Long

saweetnesstrev said:


> 100 Dollars and 5 dollars a month for me


So it is an upgrade lease? Other than $100 what did you give for this deal?

JL


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## saweetnesstrev

james long, my family only has 1 receiver, we coulda chose 4 but we decided not too,, with the home family advantage,, so they gonna charge us 100 dollars and 5 dollars a month to lease it


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## James Long

OK - You're on DHA and you are replacing your current receiver (811?) with a 411 for $100 down and $5 per month?

JL


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## saweetnesstrev

nope not replacing anything,, the girl said something about dishing it up?


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## James Long

Adding? So you're keeping your current receiver?

JL


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## saweetnesstrev

Correct James Long


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## saweetnesstrev

Anything wrong james long? im not suppose to get that deal?? just wondering


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## James Long

I havn't seen a deal offered ... all we knew was that the 411 would be available for retailers to order on December 15th. If you get a 411 out of this you will be the first 411 customer that I know of.

JL


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## saweetnesstrev

That will be awesome  i can take pictures too  if you guys want.. do you guys think the office people would take my request right now? or wait to the morning?


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## saweetnesstrev

she was wrong,, she ordered me without telling me i can only order them from a retailer!!!!!! omg  She told me to start calling retailers..


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## saweetnesstrev

OMFG WASTE OF time,, the retailer told me i have to go through who i bought my dish from  which is Dish Network.com


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## saweetnesstrev

LOL this one dishnetwork lady told me there is no 411 omfg im going nuts


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## saweetnesstrev

Anyone have any better luck? Im having a nightmare  Should i just get a 811?? and will they upgrade me in the future??


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## Jason Nipp

saweetnesstrev said:


> LOL this one dishnetwork lady told me there is no 411 omfg im going nuts


Perhaps they list it as a ViP211? I am just speculating with that comment.

The comments were that the receivers would start availability. This is probably when retailers start getting them. Now if there is any additional criteria that need to be met prior to sending them out into the public, such as inventory turns...etc.... I have not heard any info about the prerequisites or T&C's.


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## nitz369

I just talked to a Dish Rep and was told the 411 is not available for release yet, and when it is it will be on their website.

I really need to upgrade my 811, there are so many issues with it. I just wish I could get a 942 somehow. They won't even give me the $250 upgrade option, I have to pay $798


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## SummitAdvantageRetailer

I think they'll be made available later today. We're calling our Echosphere office later this afternoon to see if they're available.


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## nitz369

SummitAdvantageRetailer said:


> I think they'll be made available later today. We're calling our Echosphere office later this afternoon to see if they're available.


Okay so if I try to call back later today, What can I expect to pay as an existing customer?

What will new customers have to pay?

I want to try to weasel a deal out of them and need my ammo.


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## CJPC

When I called a while ago (mind you they said it was available) it was $5 a month, 50 down for a lease + a 1 yr contract

Or like $419 to buy it outright, not to mention I'd still need to send my 811 back (6 receiver limit!)


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## SummitAdvantageRetailer

nitz369 said:


> Okay so if I try to call back later today, What can I expect to pay as an existing customer?
> 
> What will new customers have to pay?
> 
> I want to try to weasel a deal out of them and need my ammo.


I'm not sure if existing customer upgrade has the 411/ViP211 listed as a subsitute for the 811 as of today but as a new customer, you're expected to pay a $50 non-refundable upgrade fee if you want the 411/ViP211 over the 811.


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## saweetnesstrev

Summit,, after the 4th freaking call,, they gave me a 5 dollar discount i guess the lease fee,, and ti spoke to the manager,, and she said they dont know whether i would get the 811 or the 411/ViP 211,, i guess its a toss up,, so 100 dollars + 15 Dollars for HD channels and Voom, and she waived the 5 dollar lease fee for a year,, she was really nice... she said it depended on what the subcontractor has,, and i am also an existing customer.. so i signed up.. hopefully i get a 411 and not stuck with a 811 that i cant upgrade... cause the promotion ends soon..


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## James Long

Be careful when making bleeding edge deals.
There are 811's to get rid of.

JL


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## saweetnesstrev

Maybe they will have promotion that will let me upgrade to a 411/Vip 211 for a small price down the road JL and Summit


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## saweetnesstrev

CJPC said:


> When I called a while ago (mind you they said it was available) it was $5 a month, 50 down for a lease + a 1 yr contract
> 
> Or like $419 to buy it outright, not to mention I'd still need to send my 811 back (6 receiver limit!)


CJPC Who did you call? Cause DishNetwork 4 People Plus A Manager said No or they Didnt Know..


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## technoguy

James Long said:


> Be careful when making bleeding edge deals.
> There are 811's to get rid of.
> 
> JL


I agree with you,the info I got is the 411 and 211 will be release at the same time.


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## James Long

technoguy said:


> I agree with you,the info I got is the 411 and 211 will be release at the same time.


Technically, yes. But if I were E* I would not want to have 811's in the warehouse and 411/ViP211's in homes. I would get rid of every 811 ASAP and only allow 411s to be installed if no 811 was available in a timely basis or there was a specific MPEG4 need.

But that's just me. I'm not E*.

JL


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## dsanbo

FWIW....
Talked with E* this morning and asked about the 411....The CSR "couldn't find any such thing....." I then asked about the 211....he said "No, you mean the 311.....":nono2: I told him I'd just gotten off the line with another E* rep and they told me "a new MPEG4 compatible receiver was rolling out today...after fumbling a bit, he confirmed the 211 IS available.....He said he could ship one out; I would box up and return my 811 (even gave me an RMA #!!) when the 211 arrives....They're saying "7 to 10 business days".....we'll see 
Once (......if...??) I get this unit and install it, I'll be sure to post my findings/observations.....
BTW.....I'm told the 211 is what WAS the 411....with "revisions"....
Total cost was $50 up front and 1 year commitment.....


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## nitz369

dsanbo said:


> FWIW....
> Talked with E* this morning and asked about the 411....The CSR "couldn't find any such thing....." I then asked about the 211....he said "No, you mean the 311.....":nono2: I told him I'd just gotten off the line with another E* rep and they told me "a new MPEG4 compatible receiver was rolling out today...after fumbling a bit, he confirmed the 211 IS available.....He said he could ship one out; I would box up and return my 811 (even gave me an RMA #!!) when the 211 arrives....They're saying "7 to 10 business days".....we'll see
> Once (......if...??) I get this unit and install it, I'll be sure to post my findings/observations.....
> BTW.....I'm told the 211 is what WAS the 411....with "revisions"....
> Total cost was $50 up front and 1 year commitment.....


Sweet! I'm calling later today, I guess I am not going to wait to see what people say about it. Anything has to be better than this 811 and my DLP. Did they let you put the $50 on your account? or did you have to give them a credit card?

I have been trying to get an HD-DVR forever but I think I will sacrifice DVR for a nice HD MPG4 Reciever. Just use my other DVR on my small TV's.


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## nitz369

My one big wish is:

Dish would come out with a Single Tuner HD-DVR. For those of us that already have DVR on every TV BUT their HDTV!
Then the upgrade fee would not be $250!


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## James Long

nitz369 said:


> My one big wish is:
> 
> Dish would come out with a Single Tuner HD-DVR. For those of us that already have DVR on every TV BUT their HDTV!
> Then the upgrade fee would not be $250!


We don't know what the upgrade fee will be for the Vip622. The 622 will be an upgrade from all 500/600/700/900 series recorders.

BTW: dsanbo - are you leasing the 811 that you are trading in?

JL


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## Mikey

James Long said:


> ...The 622 will be an upgrade from all 500/600/700/900 series recorders.
> ...


Carrying that thought to the next logical step, is the 411/Vip211 the upgrade for all single tuner non-DVR receivers?


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## saweetnesstrev

nitz369 said:


> Sweet! I'm calling later today, I guess I am not going to wait to see what people say about it. Anything has to be better than this 811 and my DLP. Did they let you put the $50 on your account? or did you have to give them a credit card?
> 
> I have been trying to get an HD-DVR forever but I think I will sacrifice DVR for a nice HD MPG4 Reciever. Just use my other DVR on my small TV's.


I dont think your getting a 211 nitz i talked to 4 people and a manager.. so you wanna make a double check,, cause that place is a nut house.. no offense.


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## Ghostwriter

Nitz, what is it about the 811 you dislike so much? Just wondering as mine has worked quite well, other than a few problems which I now beleive may have been heat related. Personally I don't understand all this clamour for a 411, there is not even one thing in MPEG4 yet, and I think only HD locals will be in MPEG4 to begin with. JMHO.


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## James Long

Mikey said:


> Carrying that thought to the next logical step, is the 411/Vip211 the upgrade for all single tuner non-DVR receivers?


Yep ... Not sure where the 111 fits in. The new receivers both have HD outputs ... the 111 doesn't even have AV outs, IIRC.

There will also be a replacement for the 322 other than the Vip211. It is not a Vip322.

BTW: When I say "upgrade" I mean it is the next step up, not that E* will be automatically replacing every receiver in the field. Signs are pointing to the lack of need to do that too soon.

JL


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## nitz369

Ghostwriter said:


> Nitz, what is it about the 811 you dislike so much? Just wondering as mine has worked quite well, other than a few problems which I now beleive may have been heat related. Personally I don't understand all this clamour for a 411, there is not even one thing in MPEG4 yet, and I think only HD locals will be in MPEG4 to begin with. JMHO.


Just a very buggy box, they have had this box out for a long time. If you have to call tech support for anything, they have to transfer you to a special 811 tech because of all of the problems.

1)I have the infamous "no info" problem.
2)Many times when I go to turn it on it has to download the guide and takes 5 or 6 trys to get it to work.
3)would like an HDMI output
4)SD picture quality is horrible, I have seen a 942 on a tv identical to mine and looked better
5)my 522 works more smoothly just in everday operation, I guess I am hoping that the 211/411 will be better
6)ultimate goal is to have dvr and hd on same box, but don't want to pay for the dual tuner.


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## saweetnesstrev

nitz same here but i called 4 times,, got 4 different people and a manger.. no 211 or 411,, so the manager ordered me a 811 and she said i would either get a 811 or a 411 depending on the subcontractor


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## dsanbo

James Long said:


> We don't know what the upgrade fee will be for the Vip622. The 622 will be an upgrade from all 500/600/700/900 series recorders.
> 
> BTW: dsanbo - are you leasing the 811 that you are trading in?
> 
> JL


James......
Yes, I am leasing the 811; and the $50 was placed on debit....No mention of $5/month; I've had HD from E* since day 1, about a year ago.....
From the current look of things, the 411 receiver is now the "VIP211/411"...there is no "stand-alone" 211 anymore (if there ever WAS any such product actually marketed...I saw a morgue shot of a beta 211 from the 2003 CES; the VIP211/411 is a completely different critter....!)


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## James Long

dsanbo said:


> James......
> Yes, I am leasing the 811; and the $50 was placed on debit....No mention of $5/month; I've had HD from E* since day 1, about a year ago.....
> From the current look of things, the 411 receiver is now the "VIP211/411"...there is no "stand-alone" 211 anymore (if there ever WAS any such product actually marketed...I saw a morgue shot of a beta 211 from the 2003 CES; the VIP211/411 is a completely different critter....!)


That 211 isn't this 211 ... just reviving the model number.

The 411 is the initial MPEG4 811 replacement - with the better named ViP211 being a slight change. (Added an ethernet port to tease us.) I suppose they wanted an "MPEG411" with the 411's name, but the 2xx range is better.

JL


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## Ghostwriter

Here is a looksie...

http://www.dishstore.net/product_info.php?products_id=261


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## James Long

A better link was already provided in this thread:

http://rweb.echostar.com/departmental_content/TechPortal/content/tech/receiver/411.shtml

JL


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## Ghostwriter

Sorry, missed that one. Thanks for the repost though.


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## saweetnesstrev

I like to know how dsanbo was able to get a so-called "211" out of them cause i talked to 4 people including a manager and they couldnt do it or didnt know about them...


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## dsanbo

saw....
The E* receiver I am (supposedly) getting is what's now (so I'm told) designated the VIP211/411....The "original" 211, of which I've only seen pictures, prototyped in 2003 and shown at that year's CES, was never put into production....the current "upgrade" for the 811 is this VIP211/411....I kust received an e-mail from E*, verifying my ORDER...but as yet no word on WHEN it will be shipped out.
BTW....If they actually DO send one of the "original" 211s....it won;t do me any good, anyway....from what I see, it only has/had 2 FireWire ports; no HDMI/DVI/component.....My guess is they're sending the 211/411 unit as the 811 upgrade.....We'll see....
The E* Tech Portal has info on this new receiver; I was able to d/l a jpeg of the front/rear views of it and its remote...VERY limited technical specs, though...


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## saweetnesstrev

nods dsanbo


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## SummitAdvantageRetailer

You should be able to order a 411 at least by Monday if the local retailer in your area ordered them from the distributor yesterday when they were made available.

I'm hearing sketchy rumors of 211's to be made available next week.


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## ferrarislave

Can I trade in my leased 811 which is two months old for a 411 from Dish? or do they not lease those?


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## saweetnesstrev

Anyone successful getting 211/411 from dish's office?


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## Ghostwriter

Well I will just chime in and say that until there is MPEG4 content to be viewed on these 411/211s you guys can have em! I am in no rush to part with my 811 until either MPEG4 content that I want is available, the 411/211 are proven to be stable, and or an MPEG4 HD DVR is available.


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## bavaria72

Ghostwriter said:


> .... I am in no rush to part with my 811 until either MPEG4 content that I want is available....


Ditto except I will throw in a good DVR. Gotta have that MPEG4 DVR.


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## kb7oeb

I don't see how a 211 could work anymore since it relied on the mpeg2 decoder in the tv. Can DVHS work with Mpeg4?


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## barnarra

I just ordered a 211 through DISH for $0 down and $5 a month on their lease program w/1 year commitment. Otherwise, to purchase outright I think I was quoted $399. I have an installer coming out on Dec 31 for an a.m. install. BTW, I have been with DISH for 7 years.

On another note, I have an 811, and have been experiencing the pixelation and freezing up on all the base HD package channels along with the VOOM channels. I have even experienced the problems with the SD channels, and even noticed it last night on the Encore Westerns channel. I have called twice and get the same old runaround, you know, the check dish alignment and check switch, and the soft reboots. Nothing has helped and if DISH is screwing around I hope they get it straightened out quick. Sometimes I even lose audio and have to flip channels to get the audio back.


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## Rob O

*Great forum folks, being a newbie to the site I have learned a lot about what is going on with E*, thanks for all the info.*



SummitAdvantageRetailer said:


> You should be able to order a 411 at least by Monday if the local retailer in your area ordered them from the distributor yesterday when they were made available.
> 
> I'm hearing sketchy rumors of 211's to be made available next week.


I talked with my retailer yesterday and he had just ordered a shipment of 411's and would have them this week:hurah: . He did not know too much about how E* was going to handle existing subscribers. I lease my equipment but no HD yet. He didn't know what would be available and was waiting for the retailer charlie chat on 12/22 and said he hoped to know more then. He did offer to sell me an 811! I just laughed:lol: and said I would wait until E* had MPEG-4 and HD locals figured out.

Thanks again for all the great info everyone!:grin:


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## dsanbo

Just got off the phone with E*.....They confirmed the shipment of my 211/411 receiver....with UPS Tracking #....it should arrive next Tuesday (12/27)!! 
It's coming from Commerce City, CO ......


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## Rob O

dsanbo said:


> Just got off the phone with E*.....They confirmed the shipment of my 211/411 receiver....with UPS Tracking #....it should arrive next Tuesday (12/27)!!
> It's coming from Commerce City, CO ......


I just spoke with a CSR and they could not guarantee an 811, 211 or 411. Are you leasing or buying, what kind of deal did you get?


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## JohnH

FWIW: The "DISH Network 411" is on Ebay. Not cheap though.


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## dsanbo

Rob O......
Got a lease....$50 up front, swapping out my 811....No mention of $5/month like I've seen others posted (time will tell, I guess.....).
I didn't even try to haggle.....got 6 months of HD free when I got the 811, which BTW I've found to be a really good receiver; I just want to gear up for MPEG-4 now and avoid the "crunch" later on.....


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## BoisePaul

dsanbo said:


> Rob O......
> Got a lease....$50 up front, swapping out my 811....No mention of $5/month like I've seen others posted (time will tell, I guess.....).


The $5/month would probably be the same lease fee that you pay if you're currently leasing your 811 (and if you have to send it back, it sounds like that's the case). You most likely will see no change in your monthly charges if I'm thinking correctly.


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