# R22 - upgradeable to HD?



## msmith (Apr 23, 2002)

My brother had a technician out to replace his dying HR20 with an HR22 this week (on the HR20 tuner 2 was flaky).

My brother also has an older Tivo SD DVR in another room. The technician recommended an upgrade to the R22.

The tech ALSO said that the R22 could be turned into an HD box with just a software update by calling DirecTV, once my brother got an HD TV in that room.

Is this true? Is the R22 really an HR2x box running software with HD turned off? Can it be turned into an HD box?


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

At this point in time that is only rumored. I am not aware of any customer having obtained such a software upgrade on an R22. The R22 does appear to essentially be an HR21, but there is no confirmation that a software upgrade will be made available.

Carl


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## rudeney (May 28, 2007)

I wonder if it actually takes a software upgrade. Maybe it's just a matter of D* sending authorization for the HD channels. of course that doesn't mean they will do it, but maybe that's all it might take if/when they decide to make the R22 "upgradeable" to HD.


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

"Officially", no, that can't be done. Someone with an R22 today who ordered HD would have a tech sent to replace the R22 with an HR2x.

"Someday" that might change, but it also may never change.


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

Indeed. I've had an R22-200 for some months and if/when it ever becomes software-upgradable, I'll be all over it.  If not, I'm not in a giant hurry to replace the SD TV it's connected to.


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## ThomasM (Jul 20, 2007)

LameLefty said:


> Indeed. I've had an R22-200 for some months and if/when it ever becomes software-upgradable, I'll be all over it.  If not, I'm not in a giant hurry to replace the SD TV it's connected to.


Exactly my position. When my SD TV breaks down and I finally am forced to upgrade to HDTV, we'll see what kind of offers DTV is making in the upgrade dept....or I'll just put up an outside OTA antenna, buy a HD TiVo and wait for my commitment to expire. 

I see they are now giving new subs an HD DVR instead of just an SD DVR if they subscribe to Choice Extra. And new subs can also get Choice for $30/month for the first year. Competition must be heating up. I even got a blurb in the mail from Time-Warner Cable offering Basic Cable, Road Runner internet and their digital home phone with unlimited local & statewide calling for $99/month. They've been offering this for a long time but what caught my eye was that this price was guaranteed for TWO YEARS! The catch? Yep, I knew it was coming. A TWO YEAR commitment from cable!! I wonder where they got that idea?


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

LameLefty said:


> Indeed. I've had an R22-200 for some months and if/when it ever becomes software-upgradable, I'll be all over it.  If not, I'm not in a giant hurry to replace the SD TV it's connected to.


Well I thought I would find out.I just called DirecTV Tech Support to have them convert my R22-100 to HD.Answer: Cannot be done at this time and don't know if it will ever be a possibility.The only way to go HD is to have the R22 replaced with an HR21/HR22.So it would seem the R22 is destined to stay an SD DVR.So much for possibilities.


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## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

Jhon69 said:


> Well I thought I would find out.I just called DirecTV Tech Support to have them convert my R22-100 to HD.Answer: Cannot be done at this time and don't know if it will ever be a possibility.The only way to go HD is to have the R22 replaced with an HR21/HR22.So it would seem the R22 is destined to stay an SD DVR.So much for possibilities.


Tech support would not be supposed to tell you this might be a possibility in the future even if they knew. The first level tech support people do not really know anything about "futures". What they are telling you, quite correctly, is that it can't be done at the moment.


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## xmguy (Mar 27, 2008)

I'm in no hurry for HD. That's why the R22 was right for me. I love it.


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

xmguy said:


> I'm in no hurry for HD. That's why the R22 was right for me. I love it.


Actually I'm not either.

I've enjoyed my R22-100 also compared to the R15-500 I had before one heck of an improvement.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

Simply adding HD to your account will not make the R22 do HD. I have HD, two HD DVRs, an HD receiver, and an R22. The R22 is SD only.

As far as asking a CSR, they will probably be the last people to know if such an upgrade were to become available. I would expect to see it here (DBSTalk) first.


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## dodge boy (Mar 31, 2006)

carl6 said:


> Simply adding HD to your account will not make the R22 do HD. I have HD, two HD DVRs, an HD receiver, and an R22. The R22 is SD only.
> 
> As far as asking a CSR, they will probably be the last people to know if such an upgrade were to become available. I would expect to see it here (DBSTalk) first.


I have an HR22 and an R22 and I was a little surprised that it did not receive the HD channels and display them in SD, just like it does with the AM21. This would allow D* in time to drop the MPEG2 versions of these channles and create more bandwith, and possibly the goofy $9.99 per month HD Access fee.


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

dodge boy said:


> This would allow D* in time to drop the MPEG2 versions of these channles and create more bandwith, and possibly the goofy $9.99 per month HD Access fee.


The problem is that there are 40+ million MPEG2 receivers in use today with DirecTV. By standardizing the SD DVR to the R22, DirecTV has taken the first step on the path to eliminating MPEG2, but expect it to take at least 5 years. DirecTV is going to want as many people as possible to "self-upgrade" (read: pay for their new receivers). Once upgrades and dead box attrition has reduced the number of active MPEG2 boxes in the field to an acceptable number (say, 2 million), DirecTV will go ahead and force-convert the remaining boxes and shut off the MPEG2 programming. As I said, at least 5 years for that to happen, IMO.


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## dishrich (Apr 23, 2002)

dodge boy said:


> I have an HR22 and an R22 and I was a little surprised that it did not receive the HD channels and display them in SD, just like it does with the AM21.


Actually, the R22's DO receive some of HD locals & downconvert them to SD. (yes thru the dish) They are doing this in the 72.5 markets that are in the process of transitioning to all MPEG4 locals, regardless if they are all in SD or HD. That is the reason why if you are in one of these markets & you order an SD DVR, you'll always get an R22.  
But as you point out, it does NOT do this for any of the national HD channels...


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

dishrich said:


> Actually, the R22's DO receive some of HD locals & downconvert them to SD. (yes thru the dish) They are doing this in the 72.5 markets that are in the process of transitioning to all MPEG4 locals, regardless if they are all in SD or HD. That is the reason why if you are in one of these markets & you order an SD DVR, you'll always get an R22.
> But as you point out, it does NOT do this for any of the national HD channels...


No, actually those are NOT HD channels. They ARE mpeg4, but they are NOT HD. Big difference there. They have put SD locals on mpeg4 spot beams for selective markets.


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## dishrich (Apr 23, 2002)

carl6 said:


> No, actually those are NOT HD channels. They ARE mpeg4, but they are NOT HD. Big difference there. They have put SD locals on mpeg4 spot beams for selective markets.


Sorry, but actually you are incorrect - they ARE, in fact, having these HD local feeds do "double-duty" as SD feeds for these migrated local markets from 72.5. THAT is the main reason why on the R22 SD DVR's, D* just pushed out a 4:3 setting option in the last software upgrade, so that all these people with 4:3 sets can "zoom" in on the HD locals being downconverted, so that they don't have to watch their locals in letterbox format. (which most SD people do NOT want to have to do!) Note this does NOT mean that EVERY 72.5 locals ARE in HD - but the ones that ARE in HD are downconverted as I described. Trust me on this one - I VERY much heard about this from clients BEFORE the upgrade was rolled out! 

In my market, our big 4 nets are up in HD, but the rest of our locals are all in SD & ALL in MPEG4. I GUARANTEE you that when an R22 user selects one of our big 4 nets, it IS, in fact, tuning the HD feed - NOT a separate SD feed. Why do you think it would be necessary for D* TO put up a separate SD feed for these stations, when ALL their MPEG4 boxes can do the necessary downconversion & save D* from sending these locals twice?


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## DiSH Defector (May 4, 2008)

texasbrit said:


> Tech support would not be supposed to tell you this might be a possibility in the future even if they knew. The first level tech support people do not really know anything about "futures". What they are telling you, quite correctly, is that it can't be done at the moment.


R22's have the EXACT same software version as HR2x.

As far as what tech support says, are people here actually saying that the same bumbling, stumbling CSR's that you berate for not knowing anything ARE able to single-mindedly keep the lid on information they are supposedly being told to keep quiet on? IF this was something they were being told NOT to tell you, believe me, someone here would know already.


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## SignalPoint (Dec 27, 2004)

If you have a HR22 and or a R22 and you subscribe to a HD package, you can access your HD channels as long as you have the B-band converters installed and a KA/KU dish, or you are using SWM. 
If you are using SWM with these receivers, the B-band converters are not needed. 
*hang on to those B-band Converters,may need them on another install* 
But if you are in a HD-Local Market that is also a two dish local market (72.5) and you have a R22 and no second dish installed, 
Just a Slimline.., you need to install the B-band converters so that the customer can receive local channels from the KA satellite on the R22 receiver. They eliminated the need for the second dish and gave us HD locals, but they did not think to provide these R22-100's with the B-band Converters. 
I'm hoping Directv realizes this over-sight soon and begins to provide the B-band converters with all these Mpeg4 receivers. 
If anyone has ran into this issue, you have to call Directv and requist they ship them to your customer or call the Dealer to replace the ones you used from your stock. 
*Of course if you do a couple of SWM installs, you will end up with a couple extra B-band converters as back-ups... hint,hint,hint


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## dishrich (Apr 23, 2002)

SignalPoint said:


> But if you are in a HD-Local Market that is also a two dish local market (72.5) and you have a R22 and no second dish installed,
> Just a Slimline.., you need to install the B-band converters so that the customer can receive local channels from the KA satellite on the R22 receiver. They eliminated the need for the second dish and gave us HD locals, but they did not think to provide these R22-100's with the B-band Converters.


I can't speak for YOUR market, but I GUARANTEE you they are NOT necessary in OUR market! I know over 1/2 dozen folks upgraded w/R22's with ONLY the slimline dish, (NON-SWM) & NONE of them have BBC's on their R22's.

Maybe THAT'S why they did NOT provide them to begin with - I would be willing to be if you took them off your R22's, the locals would most likely continue to work just fine...


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

SignalPoint said:


> If you have a HR22 and or a R22 and you subscribe to a HD package, you can access your HD channels as long as you have the B-band converters installed and a KA/KU dish, or you are using SWM.


I may be misunderstanding you, but my R22, even with the converters, will not receive HD. The HD channels are not even in the guide.


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

paulman182 said:


> I may be misunderstanding you, but my R22, even with the converters, will not receive HD. The HD channels are not even in the guide.


SignalPoint is mistaken. My R22 is on an SWM and I don't see HD channels either.

The ability to receive HD on the R22 has never been formally implement by Directv.


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## dorfd1 (Jul 16, 2008)

Someone on this forum has an R22 with HD and even had pictures to prove it.


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

dorfd1 said:


> Someone on this forum has an R22 with HD and even had pictures to prove it.


That's true. But evidently that was a fluke or a mistake on someone's part at DirecTV, because that's the only one that has been reliably reported.


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## Draconis (Mar 16, 2007)

dorfd1 said:


> Someone on this forum has an R22 with HD and even had pictures to prove it.


I'm very curious as to who posted that, do you have link?

Every time I asked about upgrading my R22 to HD I have been told that DIRECTV has no plans to do so at this time. That has never changed.

Honestly, I do not see this happening unless DIRECTV changes the prices of the HD DVR's to match the SD DVR's.

As always, you get what you pay for.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

Is it technically possible to upgrade an R22 to HD? Yes.

Can Mr. or Mrs. average joe customer get that done today? No.

Will it ever be an option DirecTV offers in the future? Unknown.

Have some DirecTV employees who have R22's inadvertantly posted their experiences with HD capable R22's, not realizing they were unique? It would seem so.


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

Draconis said:


> I'm very curious as to who posted that, do you have link?
> 
> Every time I asked about upgrading my R22 to HD I have been told that DIRECTV has no plans to do so at this time. That has never changed.
> 
> ...


http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=137588


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

Draconis said:


> Every time I asked about upgrading my R22 to HD I have been told that DIRECTV has no plans to do so at this time. That has never changed.


Maybe it will never happen, I have no idea.

But the fact that a CSR says there are no plans doesn't mean anything. The average CSR probably wouldn't even know it was possible until a month after they started doing it.


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## mhayes70 (Mar 21, 2006)

Draconis said:


> I'm very curious as to who posted that, do you have link?
> 
> Every time I asked about upgrading my R22 to HD I have been told that DIRECTV has no plans to do so at this time. That has never changed.
> 
> ...


I remember seeing that back when the R22 first came out. But, I don't know if it was ever legit or not.


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## mhayes70 (Mar 21, 2006)

Jhon69 said:


> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=137588


There it is.


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

I even used to say I'd be happy to pay to upgrade the box to HD capability, not just get it for free, if Directv would offer the capability. However, given the introduction of the HR22 and HR23 since then, with their bigger drives, I don't know that it would be worth it. I would think that falling hard drive prices, combined with the release of the new units, is responsible for Directv never deciding to implement HD capability on the R22.


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

LameLefty said:


> I even used to say I'd be happy to pay to upgrade the box to HD capability, not just get it for free, if Directv would offer the capability. However, given the introduction of the HR22 and HR23 since then, with their bigger drives, I don't know that it would be worth it. I would think that falling hard drive prices, combined with the release of the new units, is responsible for Directv never deciding to implement HD capability on the R22.


And my guess is, since they have not done so to this point, they won't be doing it. But who knows, really.


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

paulman182 said:


> And my guess is, since they have not done so to this point, they won't be doing it. But who knows, really.


To me it makes no sense,because when I go HD I will take the latest and greatest from DirecTV.

The HR23 has made the R22 conversion to HD obsolete in my lists of wants.


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

Jhon69 said:


> To me it makes no sense,because when I go HD I will take the latest and greatest from DirecTV.
> 
> The HR23 has made the R22 conversion to HD obsolete in my lists of wants.


Yep, my new HR22 pushed the HR21 into the master bedroom (got a nice little 32" LCD HDTV to go with it too  ), and that pushed the R22 into my daughter's room, where she now has up to 200 hours of her favorite Jake & Josh, George Lopez, Home Improvement, and Charmed episodes to watch at her convenience on a nice 3/4 year old 30" Toshiba CRT. I am NOT getting her an HDTV for _that_. 

And of course, it also pushed the R15-500 she used to have in there out to the garage. :grin:


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## Draconis (Mar 16, 2007)

Jhon69 said:


> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=137588


Must have missed it.


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## LOCODUDE (Aug 8, 2007)

Draconis said:


> Must have missed it.


Yeah. Dude even said that he got another one which was configured in a likewise manner....Go figure....


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## dodge boy (Mar 31, 2006)

Any more info on this or that other "closed" thread?


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

No there is not.


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## LOCODUDE (Aug 8, 2007)

Too bad..............


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## dodge boy (Mar 31, 2006)

LOCODUDE said:


> Too bad..............


Indeed.......


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

The reason I would like it is so I could do 480i Component.

Of course if DirecTV did that it would mean I can't drop the HD Access fee($9.99) I'm paying for on my HR10-250.:sure:


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## erict (Jan 30, 2008)

A claim of success from an installer on another forum.
Here is his post.

*Let me begin by saying that I am an installer...and have been for quite some time.

Now... This is what I have noticed. HR22s (HD/DVR) and R22s (DVRs)are the same beast.

If you activate a DVR on an account that is NOT HD capable the HDTV settings are greyed out.

If someone has a HD account and a R22 (DVR) is activated then the HDTV is not greyed out.

On installation verification the R22s will say "B-Band converters required).B-Band converters are only for upconverting HD frequencies.

What does this mean for you the customer. Well if you are a new customer you will have to have atleast one HD receiver on your order to guarantee that you get the HD dish. If you just select a standard DVR you won't get the right dish on your order to watch HD.

So lets say you are getting a 4 receiver setup let me show you how this will save you $$$$. Lets say that you want 2 HD/DVRs, 1 standard HD receiver, and one plain receiver.

In that senario you pay:
1st HD/DVR=0.00
2nd HD/DVR=199.00
Standard HD=99.00
standard=0.00
--------------------
300.00 total upfront costs

If you do it my way you get:
1st HD/DVR=0.00
DVR=99.00
Standard HD=99.00
Standard=00.00
--------------------------
200.00 total upfront costs

Just wanted to share..... hope it makes sense

Justin *


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## oscar madison (Aug 14, 2007)

erict said:


> A claim of success from an installer on another forum.
> Here is his post.
> 
> *Let me begin by saying that I am an installer...and have been for quite some time.
> ...


So is this saying that If I have the Slimline dish, an HD account, and I add a R22, I'd get HD on it if I remove the BBC's?


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

Well, I have an HD account with an HR20, an HR21 and an R22 active on the account. The R22 is absolutely positivley ONLY standard def. I just double checked it to verify that.


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## oscar madison (Aug 14, 2007)

carl6 said:


> Well, I have an HD account with an HR20, an HR21 and an R22 active on the account. The R22 is absolutely positivley ONLY standard def. I just double checked it to verify that.


Do you guys know if I have an R22 hooked up to an HDtv would I get better picture/sound if I use the HDMI cable, even though the R22 is only SD?


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

oscar madison said:


> Do you guys know if I have an R22 hooked up to an HDtv would I get better picture/sound if I use the HDMI cable, even though the R22 is only SD?


You'll have to test it to make sure. My inclination after seeing the resulting picture on a couple of different HD displays is that you probably won't be happy with the picture.


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## oscar madison (Aug 14, 2007)

harsh said:


> You'll have to test it to make sure. My inclination after seeing the resulting picture on a couple of different HD displays is that you probably won't be happy with the picture.


So component video is probably best then?


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## erict (Jan 30, 2008)

Either way. Your SQ and PQ won't be any different.


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## oscar madison (Aug 14, 2007)

erict said:


> Either way. Your SQ and PQ won't be any different.


But better than s-video or composite, right?


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## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

oscar madison said:


> But better than s-video or composite, right?


No, probably not any better than s-video. Better than composite.


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## zuf (May 25, 2007)

My R22-100 is connected via HDMI. While the signal is only standard definition, the picture quality was noticeably better with HDMI than with composite or s-video (likely because with HDMI I'm getting 480p whereas composite & s-video are 480i). Also, when I experimented with the different connections, I thought the HDMI picture was a little bit better than component, too.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

People assume because they turn on a HD channel, which the R22 can, that it's HD. They don't realise that it's not a HD picture output. I feel bad for that tech's customers.


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## erict (Jan 30, 2008)

Shades228 said:


> People assume because they turn on a HD channel, which the R22 can, that it's HD. They don't realise that it's not a HD picture output. I feel bad for that tech's customers.


How can you turn to an HD channel when they don't even show up in the guide?


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

Shades228 said:


> People assume because they turn on a HD channel, which the R22 can, that it's HD. They don't realise that it's not a HD picture output. I feel bad for that tech's customers.


My R22 does not show any HD channels in the guide. There is no way I can tune it to an HD channel.


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

carl6 said:


> My R22 does not show any HD channels in the guide. There is no way I can tune it to an HD channel.


+1

Me too.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

**


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## dodge boy (Mar 31, 2006)

Shades228 said:


> People assume because they turn on a HD channel, which the R22 can, that it's HD. They don't realise that it's not a HD picture output. I feel bad for that tech's customers.


I have an HR22 and 2 R22s and I can not access HD channels on my R22. They don't even show up under "All Channels".

I hope though that D* does make this possible, It will make my descision to get 2 more HD units easier.


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## Greyshadow2007 (Aug 23, 2006)

Shades228 said:


> People assume because they turn on a HD channel, which the R22 can, that it's HD. They don't realise that it's not a HD picture output. I feel bad for that tech's customers.


I think what he was referring to are the markets that are transitioning to 99/103 from the 72.5 satellite. In most cases, the channel as carried on the 99/103 satellite is an HD feed. The R22 can tune that and down-rez it to 480i SD


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

Greyshadow2007 said:


> I think what he was referring to are the markets that are transitioning to 99/103 from the 72.5 satellite. In most cases, the channel as carried on the 99/103 satellite is an HD feed. The R22 can tune that and down-rez it to 480i SD


480i-S-Video/composite.
480p-HDMI/Component.


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

Greyshadow2007 said:


> I think what he was referring to are the markets that are transitioning to 99/103 from the 72.5 satellite. In most cases, the channel as carried on the 99/103 satellite is an HD feed. The R22 can tune that and down-rez it to 480i SD


That is not my understanding at all. Those markets are (were?) MPEG2 SD markets moving to MPEG4 SD channels on 99/103. Although Directv may receive the locals in HD, they are downrezzed to SD for retransmission. Those MPEG4 SD markets were the first to receive the R22 after it was released.

And in those markets that have had MPEG4 HD locals for some time, the R22 cannot tune to them at all, as they do not show up in the Guide.

In fact, ARE there any markets that are MPEG4 HD-only without a corresponding MPEG2 SD feed? Things may have changed in recent months and I'd be interested to hear about it.


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## dishrich (Apr 23, 2002)

LameLefty said:


> And in those markets that have had MPEG4 HD locals for some time, the R22 cannot tune to them at all, as they do not show up in the Guide.


Totally incorrect - the R22 DO tune to these MPEG4 HD locals, since (obviously) there is NOT an SD copy sent up on the Ka birds. ALL new installs in these 72.5 do NOT get the 2nd dish any longer, as well as subs doing a movers connection - ALL their equipment is upgraded to MPEG4 receivers, so they do NOT need the 72.5 dish any more.



> In fact, ARE there any markets that are MPEG4 HD-only without a corresponding MPEG2 SD feed? Things may have changed in recent months and I'd be interested to hear about it.


This IS very correct - most of the 72.5 markets "big 4" locals are ONLY transmitted in HD, & the SD subs receiver does the downconverting. BUT, in these same markets, there ARE MPEG4 locals (such as PBS, CW, MNT, etc) that are NOT transmitted in HD, but are put up in MPEG4 SD, to allow ALL the locals in that market to be picked up with the 1 dish. (since the 72.5 bird will be leaving us this year)


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

dishrich said:


> Totally incorrect - the R22 DO tune to these MPEG4 HD locals, since (obviously) there is NOT an SD copy sent up on the Ka birds. ALL new installs in these 72.5 do NOT get the 2nd dish any longer, as well as subs doing a movers connection - ALL their equipment is upgraded to MPEG4 receivers, so they do NOT need the 72.5 dish any more.


Sorry, but you're absolutely incorrect about this. Prior to installing my SWM, my R22 did NOT require BBCs to tune my locals. They were pulling in the same Ku MPEG2 SD locals off a 101 spotbeam that any other SD receiver would get. I can't verify that they're doing that now unless I pull some lines off my SWM8 from the dish but there's no reason to believe that has changed at all.



> This IS very correct - most of the 72.5 markets "big 4" locals are ONLY transmitted in HD, & the SD subs receiver does the downconverting. BUT, in these same markets, there ARE MPEG4 locals (such as PBS, CW, MNT, etc) that are NOT transmitted in HD, but are put up in MPEG4 SD, to allow ALL the locals in that market to be picked up with the 1 dish. (since the 72.5 bird will be leaving us this year)


Newshawk's local-market thread needs an update then. Unless I missed one, according to his data there are no markets that have HD locals ONLY (such that subs who don't pay for HD access require an R22 to receive them), though there are a number of MPEG4 SD-only markets. In those cases, the local signal pickup might well be digital (and probably HD) but Directv only broadcasts an SD signal, albeit in MPEG4.


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## dishrich (Apr 23, 2002)

Do you understand the 72.5 markets at all?  



LameLefty said:


> Sorry, but you're absolutely incorrect about this. Prior to installing my SWM, my R22 did NOT require BBCs to tune my locals.


I am ONLY talking about the 72.5 local markets that are now in the process of migrating ALL their subs over to MPEG4. Also, what do BBC's have to do with this? I can GUARANTEE you I have at least 1/2 dozen SD only customers w/R22's, that do NOT have 72.5 dishes, that also do NOT have BBC's. Our locals here do NOT require BBC's on the R22's, & are ONLY pulling our locals in HD from a Ka bird, which are then downconverted to SD obviously.



> They were pulling in the same Ku MPEG2 SD locals off a 101 spotbeam that any other SD receiver would get. I can't verify that they're doing that now unless I pull some lines off my SWM8 from the dish but there's no reason to believe that has changed at all.


Again, because YOU are NOT in a migrating 72.5 market!!! 



> Newshawk's local-market thread needs an update then. Unless I missed one, according to his data there are no markets that have HD locals ONLY (such that subs who don't pay for HD access require an R22 to receive them),


That is because D* IS in the process of migrating ALL subs in these 72.5 markets to MPEG4 ONLY locals. In these markets, as they migrate SD subs over, as well as new & moving subs, they are issued either R22 DVR's, or H2x receivers, but they do NOT have to pay the HD access charge, after which then all HD channels ARE disabled through the H2x boxes. Most (but not all) of these markets are ONLY being transmitted in HD, which SD subs MPEG4 receivers downconvert. *Again, WHY would D* bother to transmit a duplicate copy of an HD local in SD, & BOTH on Ka, when they are now ONLY putting in receivers that can downconvert to SD. (again, I am ONLY talking in 72.5 &/or MPEG4 only local markets) *



> though there are a number of MPEG4 SD-only markets. In those cases, the local signal pickup might well be digital (and probably HD) but Directv only broadcasts an SD signal, albeit in MPEG4.


Correct, but also in HD markets such as mine, our local PBS, CW & MNT stations are in MPEG4 SD on Ka - again, this IS due to the 72.5 to Ka migration that D* is currently doing in these markets - NOT in 101 SD local markets!


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

dishrich - it would help if you actually READ the post of mine that you attempted to "correct" me on the first time. I never once said my personal experiences were in a 72.5 market.

The VAST majority of people getting R22 models are NOT in migrating markets. They've been in the Nashville metro market (and Memphis too, I know) for MONTHS. In such markets, the boxes are simply precluded from tuning HD channels, period.


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## SDizzle (Jan 1, 2007)

dodge boy said:


> I have an HR22 and 2 R22s and I can not access HD channels on my R22. They don't even show up under "All Channels".
> 
> *I hope though that D* does make this possible, It will make my descision to get 2 more HD units easier.*




And the benefit to D* is that they can start charging for HD access without having to send out a tech and give equipment to upgrade (either free or discounted) to the sub. And it helps the sub, cause then they just make a call and get an upgrade to HD with paying for part or all of an upgrade.


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

SDizzle said:


> [/B]
> 
> And the benefit to D* is that they can start charging for HD access without having to send out a tech and give equipment to upgrade (either free or discounted) to the sub. And it helps the sub, cause then they just make a call and get an upgrade to HD with paying for part or all of an upgrade.


Sure. That was noted by some (including those of us who field-tested these units) a good while ago. It was even indicated as a future technology path on investor slides about a year ago, as I recall.

However, with the falling prices of hard drives, the 320 gb unit in the R22 might seem a little small, especially compared to the 500 gb units in the HR22 and HR23. I wouldn't be surprised if some future model (an "R23" maybe?) doesn't take this concept to fruition with a larger drive.


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## SDizzle (Jan 1, 2007)

LameLefty said:


> Sure. That was noted by some (including those of us who field-tested these units) a good while ago. It was even indicated as a future technology path on investor slides about a year ago, as I recall.
> 
> However, with the falling prices of hard drives, the 320 gb unit in the R22 might seem a little small, especially compared to the 500 gb units in the HR22 and HR23. I wouldn't be surprised if some future model (an "R23" maybe?) doesn't take this concept to fruition with a larger drive.


I see your point with the HD sizes, it just makes so much sense for a "market leader" like D* to have equipment that can easily be activated/deactivated by them in terms of HD or SD to help them and subs. And it would cut down on the number of returned receivers D* gets too.


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## SDizzle (Jan 1, 2007)

LameLefty said:


> Sure. That was noted by some (including those of us who field-tested these units) a good while ago. It was even indicated as a future technology path on investor slides about a year ago, as I recall.
> 
> However, with the falling prices of hard drives, the 320 gb unit in the R22 might seem a little small, especially compared to the 500 gb units in the HR22 and HR23. I wouldn't be surprised if some future model (an "R23" maybe?) doesn't take this concept to fruition with a larger drive.


I was asked to test the R22 by Earl way back when, but if you remember, you could not have HD Access in order to test the R22. So, it sure sounds like they were trying to test it with SD only, and then later open it up to HD?!?


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

SDizzle said:


> I was asked to test the R22 by Earl way back when, but if you remember, you could not have HD Access in order to test the R22. So, it sure sounds like they were trying to test it with SD only, and then later open it up to HD?!?


I tested the -200. I don't know the rationale for selection, except that at the time I still had three SD boxes with no plans to replace any of them soon. I still have two, including the R22 (which frankly kicks the R15's ass all over the place  ). Of course I do have HD Access on my account too, but since my R22 can't even see an HD channel in the Guide it doesn't make any difference.

Now what WOULD be interesting would be to pull my 101 feed off the SWM8 and reboot the R22 to see if it shows the HD versions off my 99(s) spotbeam instead, just downrezzed. Maybe this weekend . . .


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

I also received on of the very early test R22 units, and I did have HD on my account but also SD units. My R22 has always been connected to a 5-LNB dish that gets 99 and 103. My R22 has never gotten HD channels in the guide or by tuning to them. The one thing I was able to do early on was use an AM21 with my R22 (because I have HD on my account). It was only much later that the AM21 was enabled on the R22 for SD only accounts.

There have been some reports of people who have R22's that were receiving HD. In every single case of that happening, after a few days those posters have stopped posting about that topic. I strongly suspect that they were employees whose equipment was doing something that the average customer's equipment doesn't do, and they were not even aware their equipment was behaving different than normal. There have been many indications that the R22 has that type of capability, one of which is the fact that it is the hardware clone of the HR21 and another is that it runs the same software version as the HR21. However, until such time as DirecTV chooses to publicly release that capability, it really isn't worth debating it in a public forum. For the normal customer, the R22 is NOT HD capable at this point in time. Like many/most with an R22, I look forward to the opportunity to upgrade mine to HD if and when that opportunity is presented.


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## dishrich (Apr 23, 2002)

LameLefty said:


> dishrich - it would help if you actually READ the post of mine that you attempted to "correct" me on the first time. I never once said my personal experiences were in a 72.5 market.


I DID read your post, of which you were answering to Grayshawdow2007's point about R22's that CAN & DO pickup up MPEG4 HD locals, which was:



Greyshadow2007 said:


> _I think what he was referring to are the markets that are transitioning to 99/103 from the 72.5 satellite. In most cases, the channel as carried on the 99/103 satellite is an HD feed. The R22 can tune that and down-rez it to 480i SD _


To which YOU say:



LameLefty said:


> That is not my understanding at all. Those markets are (were?) MPEG2 SD markets moving to MPEG4 SD channels on 99/103. Although Directv may receive the locals in HD, they are downrezzed to SD for retransmission. Those MPEG4 SD markets were the first to receive the R22 after it was released.
> 
> *And in those markets that have had MPEG4 HD locals for some time, the R22 cannot tune to them at all, as they do not show up in the Guide.*


Well excuse me, but it sure sounded like you WERE talking about 72.5 markets...   
And all I was doing was saying the SAME thing Grey was telling you - which is that the R22's CAN & DO tune in _some_ HD channels, specifically some HD locals, & downconvert them to SD. If you disagree, then I don't know what to tell ya.



> The VAST majority of people getting R22 models are NOT in migrating markets. They've been in the Nashville metro market (and Memphis too, I know) for MONTHS.


If you say so (I guess  ), since WE have had them here for months as well; again because ALL migrating markets MUST use R22's for ALL SD DVR subs. Not to mention the 1/2 dozen+ MPEG4 SD markets that were put up WAY before they even started the 72.5 migration rollouts. 
And in markets like yours, there is NO need whatsoever for MPEG4 SD DVR's, since (obviously) your SD locals are STILL on the legacy bird. But obviously, D* has probably blown out all the old MPEG2 SD DVR's, which they are probably no longer making & have gone exclusively to the R22.


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

dishrich - you really need to pay more attention to what I write and not what you think I write.


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## oscar madison (Aug 14, 2007)

I hope this is related to the discussion. My SD locals were on the 72.5 but I guess they moved to the 103 so I received 2 R22s to replace my R15s. The settings for satellite setup removed 72.5 and just read slimline 5 compared to my R15s. I thought I would change my existing R22 to Slimline 5 alone as well.

Well, I was angered on Monday when I went to watch 24 on the existing R22 that was already programmed with series links to record. It had recorded 45 min. of gray screen with 15 min. left in the show. So I went to watch it live and it was showing fine. Then I pressed record and it starting recording 24. When I went to the list I showed two different 24 shows recording, but one had the HD logo on it in the program description. 

I guess this is the down resoultion you guys are talking about. Once I deleted all my series links and reset them I was fine. Now on my prioritizer my shows have the HD logo next to them. The Office, 24, etc. 

The picture is better than before when my SD locals came from the 72.5. I don't have HDTV's on these units so I know it is not in HD, and according to this thread even if I did, it wouldn't matter, but it looks better.


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## dishrich (Apr 23, 2002)

Lame - If you could write CLEARLY, there wouldn't BE an issue with us "thinking what you wrote" to begin with...


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## Greyshadow2007 (Aug 23, 2006)

LameLefty said:


> dishrich - it would help if you actually READ the post of mine that you attempted to "correct" me on the first time. I never once said my personal experiences were in a 72.5 market.
> 
> The VAST majority of people getting R22 models are NOT in migrating markets. They've been in the Nashville metro market (and Memphis too, I know) for MONTHS. In such markets, the boxes are simply precluded from tuning HD channels, period.


What I was describing before would only be the case in a transitioning 72.5 market. If the transitioning 72.5 market has launched HD locals on 99/103, the receiver will tune to the HD local feed, but output it in SD only. I'll get with Newshawk about updating his database...


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## stp890 (Aug 5, 2007)

FWIW, I am in a transitioning 72.5 market and received my R22 a few weeks ago. 3 of our big 4 locals are broadcast in HD and the R22 downconverts it. The annoying part though is that the top and bottom bars for the letterboxing are gray. Since the HDTV functions of the box are disabled, there is no way to change the color of the bars to black like on the HR2x's.


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## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

oscar madison said:


> I hope this is related to the discussion. My SD locals were on the 72.5 but I guess they moved to the 103 so I received 2 R22s to replace my R15s. The settings for satellite setup removed 72.5 and just read slimline 5 compared to my R15s. I thought I would change my existing R22 to Slimline 5 alone as well.
> 
> Well, I was angered on Monday when I went to watch 24 on the existing R22 that was already programmed with series links to record. It had recorded 45 min. of gray screen with 15 min. left in the show. So I went to watch it live and it was showing fine. Then I pressed record and it starting recording 24. When I went to the list I showed two different 24 shows recording, but one had the HD logo on it in the program description.
> 
> ...


The problem was your series links still had the 72.5 settings in them for the local SD channels and since you had disabled 72.5 there was no signal. Now you have reset the series links, you are receiving the signals from the HD locals, and the R22 is downconverting them. .


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