# HD-Lite complaint area



## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

I know, I know... this will never happen... but I wish that there would be a thread in this forum where all the HD Lite©®™ complaints would go. Every HD Lite comment would be moved to that thread and removed from the other threads talking about whatever else they were talking about. I swear I am getting tired of reading the same old tired complaints about HD Lite. I get it. I hear the complaint and under stand it. I DON'T AGREE with the argument and neither does the majority of the viewing public since most HD TVs do not have tha capability of even displaying the complete HD Lite resolution. But I understant the complaint

Can we please let it go and not pollute every single HD thread with the same comments any time some one asks about the PQ of X program or Y channel? Really it is OFF TOPIC in most theads and it hijacks the thread completely most of the time.

Thanks for letting me vent!

See ya
Tony


----------



## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

I completely agree, Tony, perhaps, something like:

"*The Official HD Lite*©®™ *Complaint Thread*"
Please Post All Your Piss-Poor PQ Problems Here

We would probably need such a thread in every HD-related forum because, apparently, most users
don't know how to find the secret global search feature cleverly hidden at the top of every page.


----------



## Jason Nipp (Jun 10, 2004)

I agree Tony, But if we created a separate forum for just that it would likely require a lot of policing.... as such I doubt it would get added.

Besides, if you think about it, people often post stuff like this off topic just to make sure their complaint is heard. But on the other hand a dedicated thread area would give us a place to move it without deletion.... 

Either way Chris needs to comment on this one...


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Hadn't really thought about it but a central place for it would probably be better than seeing complaints everywhere.


----------



## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

Yes, indeedy!

I like to think of such a dedicated thread as a _"Dempster-Dumpster™"_
for the pervasive and ubiquitous littany of interminable PQ gripes.


----------



## Chris Blount (Jun 22, 2001)

I agree. There should be one place for it. Howerver as Jason said, policing it would be an interesting task.

I am open to ideas on how we can work this issue without getting too labor intensive.


----------



## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

I may regret saying this, but I'll [strike]volunteer to[/strike] police it -- after all, according
to my dusty ole resumé, I do have a modicum of experience as a mod. 

Send me in, Coach!


----------



## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

Just don't slap him on the butt on his way in. He might take it wrong. :lol:


----------



## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

So much for using you as a reference, Richard! :lol:


----------



## Jason Nipp (Jun 10, 2004)

Nick said:


> So much for using you as a reference, Richard! :lol:


:kickbutt:!rolling


----------



## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

Wow! Not the response I expected. This is great if you guys do this! Thanks!

See ya
Tony


----------



## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

My concern Tony is that I highly suspect that people would not use the PQ discussion forum for that purpose but would still continue to use the Dish* and E* forums for that type of discussion. PQ type of discussions usually are very heated and a lot of people are passionate about getting the maximum quality for their dollar. I fully understand it though I personally have stayed away as much as I can from the HD-LITE conversations because I have found that way to polar for my taste. 

Like others have said, it could become a lot of overhead moving posts out and over to the PQ forum when threads are hijacked and rat hole down a PQ discussion. If a forum was to be created, I would make it more general to include both Reduced Resolution/bit rate discussions and general PQ channel based discussions.. Interesting suggestion Tony... Need to chew on this one a bit.


----------



## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

Ron Barry said:


> Reduced Resolution/bit rate discussions and general PQ channel based discussions


Much too wordy . I suggest this new forum simply be called "The Rug," where things we'd prefer didn't exist get swept under.

Really, without getting into the points of the debate, the debate does have merit. The question of consumer value is a valid one for each provider and a point of comparison. Good enough for some, even many, does not mean "it shouldn't be better and shut up about it already." (If I say more I'll slip into the debate that I've stayed out of this round.)

The board should be advocating _for_ the consumer/subscriber, not trying to stifle those who notice a problem and set out to try to quantify it.


----------



## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

> The board should be advocating for the consumer/subscriber, not trying to stifle those who notice a problem and set out to try to quantify it.


Agree 100%.... but, presentation is also important. A person who presents his opinions (facts?) like a bull in a china shop is a problem. People should present any and all problems they see and be civil to those who respond to their comments (even if the comments are unfounded). I think its a good idea to set up an independent forum for such items. It should keep most such comments in one area and it could turn into a real learning experience on the technology.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

BobaBird said:


> Much too wordy . I suggest this new forum simply be called "The Rug," where things we'd prefer didn't exist get swept under.


Sounds like fun ... how do I move this thread into that forum? 



> The board should be advocating _for_ the consumer/subscriber, not trying to stifle those who notice a problem and set out to try to quantify it.


We also try to remain spam free ... after a while HDLite discussion becomes spam with certain people seemingly living only to post negative comments about the providers.

If they don't like HDLite they should move to a provider that doesn't use it. 

Yep, E* and D* use a system of pixel reduction that has been given the derogatory label "HDLite". Yep, this down-rezzing is allowable under ATSC standards. Yep, we all wish that all HD was in as many pixels as possible (even pixels our sets cannot display).

Does filling the forum with the same rant over and over get us any closer to getting rid of "HDLite"? Does the negative tone of such threads (especially between posters) really express the tone that is desired at DBSTalk?

It would be nice to just say "Yep, it exists, it isn't good and it isn't going to stop" until some change is made in the industry away from "HDLite".


----------



## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

BobaBird said:


> Really, without getting into the points of the debate, the debate does have merit.


Yes it does have merit. And there is a number of positions one can be on. The problem I think Tony was bringing up is these type of discussions leak more and more into threads and rathole rather quickly taking away from the thread and at times get to be rather abusive.



BobaBird said:


> The board should be advocating _for_ the consumer/subscriber, not trying to stifle those who notice a problem and set out to try to quantify it.


Totally agree too. Members should not be stifled for their opinions if presented in a professional manner with respect to people who's opinions differ.


----------



## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

Just to clarify my point. I was mostly making a joke but with a nugget of truth.

The whole idea is to have a place where people can continute the HD Lite debate without spilling into every other thread dealing with PQ. Typical HD channel thread:

How do you like the new HD channels?

I think they're great

I'm not impressed with the content.

XYZ show is my favorite show. I love the HD channel.

You call those HD channels? They are only x by y resolution. These are crap

What do you mean crap, they look great on my TV

Your TV may not be true HD. These channels are low res and not true HD

My TV is a Sony Expensiva Maxima and displays 58billion pixels per square picometer. It still looks great with this channel.

Well you better have your eyes checked because the PQ blows since it's not true HD (even though my TV is incapable or reproducing that res)

Blah, blah blah... and there goes the thread into HD Lite hell!

That's the kind of crap I am just tired of seeing. My comment came after reading the third thread in a row on one night that fell into that trap!

Again, I understand the argument. I mostly agree with the argument. But hammering the same crap over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again, doesn't fix anything. It makes people tune out.

(I want WBQC on Dish) 

See ya
Tony


----------



## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

Exibit A

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=95315

See ya
Tony


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

TNGTony said:


> (I want WBQC on Dish)


Didn't they lose their network?

I've got two LPs and a DT subchannel that is no longer a network (was UPN, now just "SBT2") as part of my locals. WBQC must have annoyed someone at Dish. 

Still missing the MyTV LP affiliate (which did not have a format when my market was added). I expect that will fall into the WBQC category of "out of site, out of mind".


----------

