# L4.41 Software Experiences/Bugs Discussion



## Rob Glasser

Please use this thread for all discussions regarding your experiences with L4.41 including any bugs or issues you encounter.

Here are the Release Notes for L4.41 for the ViP622/ViP722.

Please check out DBSTalk.com's First Look at L4.41 document, it contains a lot more detail on the changes and screen shots of just about everything. Thanks to Mike Johnson for the screen grabs.

Ok, I've scanned through the release and there are a lot of new features, here are some of the highlights:

** External USB Hard Drive Support
* DVR List Groups (Folders)
* New Icon to identify the OTA Tuner and Timers
* Broadband Dial Out Support for status and PPVs (To be fully implemented at a future date)
* New Screensaver
* Trick Modes Improvement - Much more accurate and smooth, IMHO
* New info showing additional lists and how to get to them in the guide
*
*Summary of issues being reported here. *
* Some members reporting Lossing HDMI after Update. 
-- Post your experiences here http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=94467 
* Few reports of randome reboots occuring. 
* CC Timing does not appear to be improved. TNT CC has come to life. 
* Helpful hint on EPG has been found annoying by some. 
* Bill Payout menu item on Dish Home is no longer available. 
* It looks like in adding the group feature in schedule, they removed the history feature, and its sub screens.
* Some members have reported having issues rebuilding their favorite lists.
* CC sometimes stops working and requires rebooting to get CC back.
* Some members have reported seeing audio/video studdering. 
* Seagate Free Agent Pro users reporting issues with There USB drive. Seems to be sleep mode related. 
-- Post experiences here http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=95320


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## anthonyi

Can we by any external usb hard drive and what is the size limit?


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## kstevens

Do we just connect the dvr to our internet hub and it just works?

Glor


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## emathis

I already had my 622 connected to my network. When L441 installed, it automatically connected and gave it an IP address. Also now under "dish on demand" the usb storage button is active and tells me I don't have a multimedia device connected. I understand we can't call to activate until next week. Is that true?


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## cdub998

So If I hook it up to the ethernet I can get rid of the phone line?


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## mclarenmerc05

I hooked up my external hd and it looks like it has to be reformated by dish before it will be able to be used with the 622 rec.!? 
That means that I would lose everything else that is currently on the external hard drive.....*that is not good*!
Also I guess the best thing is to go and get a new hard drive and dedicate that one just to transfer files from the 622.
I am also wondering if once I transfer file on the new hd will I be able to access that one with my PC !!!!


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## Hunter Green

The grouping feature in My Recordings is *WONDERFUL*. Yay! Thank you DISH!


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## booger

mclarenmerc05 said:


> I hooked up my external hd and it looks like it has to be reformated by dish before it will be able to be used with the 622 rec.!?
> That means that I would lose everything else that is currently on the external hard drive.....*that is not good*!
> Also I guess the best thing is to go and get a new hard drive and dedicate that one just to transfer files from the 622.
> I am also wondering if once I transfer file on the new hd will I be able to access that one with my PC !!!!


I'm not sure what file system your external drive is formatted in but I would bet it's FAT32 which absolutely sucks at handling large video files. It's slow as hell too.

I hope the 622 will format my drive in a much friendlier format like XFS or JFS for large files. Even ReiserFS would be better than FAT. Surely E* didn't pay for NTFS which would suck almost as bad as fat with large files.

Accessing your files from the PC? I'm sure E* will discourage this but it will happen. Someone will figure out a way to make them accessable.


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## emathis

I just let the receiver reformat a hard drive and when it is done it reboots the receiver (it tells you that when it starts). I don't know why that would have to happen. Now when you go to "dish recordings" and click on "manage recordings" you get an alert saying "to manage dish network recordings on your external hard drive this feature must be activated. To activate please call 1-888-241-2205"


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## lionsrule

so as I understand it.... if you have 2 different 622's in your home, you actually have to pay 2 SEPERATE $40 fee's. Correct? So my question is can you activate one 622 receiver to READ the portable HD, but WRITE from both 622's?


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## mclarenmerc05

booger said:


> I'm not sure what file system your external drive is formatted in but I would bet it's FAT32 which absolutely sucks at handling large video files. It's slow as hell too.
> 
> I hope the 622 will format my drive in a much friendlier format like XFS or JFS for large files. Even ReiserFS would be better than FAT. Surely E* didn't pay for NTFS which would suck almost as bad as fat with large files.
> 
> Accessing your files from the PC? I'm sure E* will discourage this but it will happen. Someone will figure out a way to make them accessable.


My external hd is formated in NTFS.....is that not good enough!? It is a 320 GB Seagate Free Agent.
Do you have any better suggestions for a better external hd?


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## yardbird

#1 External hard drive will be formatted using a proprietary format. You can then ONLY use it for your 622

#2 DO NOT CALL before the 15th to activate the external USB hard drive feature. They won't know what you're talking about.

#3 right now there's just one activation fee. HOWEVER, in the initial rollout the external drive will be tied to a specific RECEIVER.... not the ACCOUNT as was previously mentioned. This is expected to change but currently if you transfer a movie to the external on 622 #1 and then try to hook it up to 622 #2 it "may result in loss of data"


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## placeman

cdub998 said:


> So If I hook it up to the ethernet I can get rid of the phone line?


I believe this is correct as long as you don't mind loosing CID info.


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## emathis

More good news. It looks to me like the fast forward/reverse jerkiness is gone and the pause/ frame by frame appears to work better now. But it's just my opinion. Also noticed new symbol in the recording schedule showing a little antenna for OTA recordings.


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## cdub998

placeman said:


> I believe this is correct as long as you don't mind loosing CID info.


Thats awesome. I wasn't getting CID anyways (use vonage).


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## obuengineer

Do I have to hook up the 622 via wired ethernet, or is there a wireless option?


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## Moridin

yardbird said:


> HOWEVER, in the initial rollout the external drive will be tied to a specific RECEIVER.... not the ACCOUNT as was previously mentioned.


Which makes me curious: what happens if (when?) my second 622 dies after I've paid this enabling fee?


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## tnsprin

obuengineer said:


> Do I have to hook up the 622 via wired ethernet, or is there a wireless option?


As far as the 622 is concerned its wired, although there are wireless adapters available if you don't want to string another wire.


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## Ron Barry

mclarenmerc05 said:


> I hooked up my external hd and it looks like it has to be reformated by dish before it will be able to be used with the 622 rec.!?
> That means that I would lose everything else that is currently on the external hard drive.....*that is not good*!
> Also I guess the best thing is to go and get a new hard drive and dedicate that one just to transfer files from the 622.
> I am also wondering if once I transfer file on the new hd will I be able to access that one with my PC !!!!


Yes.. You must use a dedicated Hard drive... It will consume the whole drive and no you will not be able to transfer your files from your 622 to your PC. Well at least not the normal person and even if you did they would have DRM on them so you won't be able to watch thm.


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## Ron Barry

Yep.. I got it last night also. The Grouping feature is sweet. Nice Job Dish. Also the OTA icon is a nice usability fix.... Trick modes do seem smoother. I had ethernet hooked up already and I was able to get an IP address Sweet. 

So far so good for me....


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## Grandude

emathis said:


> I just let the receiver reformat a hard drive and when it is done it reboots the receiver (it tells you that when it starts). I don't know why that would have to happen. Now when you go to "dish recordings" and click on "manage recordings" you get an alert saying "to manage dish network recordings on your external hard drive this feature must be activated. To activate please call 1-888-241-2205"


Sounds like a success story. Could you tell us what brand and size of HDD you used?
Thanks,


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## harsh

mclarenmerc05 said:


> I am also wondering if once I transfer file on the new hd will I be able to access that one with my PC !!!!


NO!!!


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## Eagles

yardbird said:


> #1 External hard drive will be formatted using a proprietary format. You can then ONLY use it for your 622
> 
> #2 DO NOT CALL before the 15th to activate the external USB hard drive feature. They won't know what you're talking about.
> 
> #3 right now there's just one activation fee. HOWEVER, in the initial rollout the external drive will be tied to a specific RECEIVER.... not the ACCOUNT as was previously mentioned. This is expected to change but currently if you transfer a movie to the external on 622 #1 and then try to hook it up to 622 #2 it "may result in loss of data"


On item# 3: So even if both my 622's received the update, and I pay the activation fee, will both receivers have the EHD enabled? If not, can I choose which receiver gets it? 
Also, do you know why Dish chose at this point to not allow us to transfer from one 622 to another? This is something I was really looking forward to be able to do.


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## harsh

mclarenmerc05 said:


> My external hd is formated in NTFS.....is that not good enough!?


NTFS carries an enormous amount of Windows baggage with it that makes it unsuitable for use with equipment with limited processing power and memory.


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## Rob Glasser

Grandude said:


> Sounds like a success story. Could you tell us what brand and size of HDD you used?
> Thanks,


I wouldn't call that a success story yet. It sounds like the receiver formatted the drive but it's still not activated until Dish turns it on for your account.


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## Eagles

Rob Glasser said:


> Please use this thread for all discussions regarding your experiences with L4.41 including any bugs or issues you encounter.
> 
> Release notes and more detailed information about this release will be posted in the near future.
> 
> Ok, I've scanned through the release and there are a lot of new features, here is what I've got so far, I will work on details more tomorrow:
> 
> *
> * External USB Hard Drive Support
> * DVR List Groups (Folders)
> * New Icon to identify the OTA Tuner and Timers
> * Broadband Dial Out Support for status and PPVs
> * New Screensaver
> * Trick Modes Improvement - Much more accurate and smooth, IMHO
> *


Ron, any fixes other than the trick modes. I was hoping for some CC fixes as per my response to Dish engineers which you helped me with.


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## harsh

Eagles said:


> On item# 3: So even if both my 622's received the update, and I pay the activation fee, will both receivers have the EHD enabled? If not, can I choose which receiver gets it?


I suspect that this will be answered in the coming Tech Forum on Monday night. If not, you'll have to wait until Wednesday.


> Also, do you know why Dish chose at this point to not allow us to transfer from one 622 to another? This is something I was really looking forward to be able to do.


Probably for much the same reasons as sharing the USB drive between receivers won't be supported initially.

If you wanted the program on another receiver, why did you record it on this one?


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## Ron Barry

Eagles said:


> Ron, any fixes other than the trick modes. I was hoping for some CC fixes as per my response to Dish engineers which you helped me with.


Have not had a chance to look at CC and I definitely am no CC expert. I will take a look at CC and see how it feels today and report back, but I think the final call will be people that actually use it like yourself Eagle.


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## Rob Glasser

harsh said:


> If you wanted the program on another receiver, why did you record it on this one?


I see this option being critical for those that need to have their receiver replaced for service. It would be nice if when/if your HDMI port dies and you need a new receiver that you could move all your recordings to a USB drive, and then move them back to the new receiver when you get it.

Another reason for it would be lack of space on the internal drives and you want to only have a large single USB Drive to archive events/movies etc ... you want to keep long term.

Or you simply want the flexibility. I personally see myself with a couple of hard drives, one for all the kids movies and one for movies my wife and I want to keep. It would be nice to hook them up to whichever receiver I want to watch them from.


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## Ron Barry

Definitely some good use cases for enable that functionality Rob. I hope they do enable it soon.


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## Grandude

Rob Glasser said:


> I wouldn't call that a success story yet. It sounds like the receiver formatted the drive but it's still not activated until Dish turns it on for your account.


OK, OK, call it a partial success story. My main point was to find out, and I hope others will also, report what brand and size drive used successfully.

I also must assume that there are a few people out there who may have already heard about external HDD coming and hooked one up, and now, without having read this and the other forum, will place the call to Dish today to activate it? (Maybe we need one guinea pig to make the call and report back):grin:


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## ebaltz

Is there such a thing as a LAN port WiFI dongle. I have a wireless network and don't want to run a cable to my TV area. My PS3 connects wirelessly and would like my 622 to as well. Anyway to do this with a dongle or do I need a full blown access point wireless router type thing down by my TV?


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## ChuckA

I can tell you it formats a 750 gig Maxtor just fine.


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## emathis

Grandude said:


> Sounds like a success story. Could you tell us what brand and size of HDD you used?
> Thanks,


It's a Seagate 300gb I had been using on my Xbox 360. I had already watched most of the movies I had on it, so I just went for it.


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## ChuckA

ebaltz said:


> Is there such a thing as a LAN port WiFI dongle. I have a wireless network and don't want to run a cable to my TV area. My PS3 connects wirelessly and would like my 622 to as well. Anyway to do this with a dongle or do I need a full blown access point wireless router type thing down by my TV?


Several companies make a wireless bridge. You connect them to a wired Ethernet port such as the one on the 622 and it converts it to a wireless signal. So, you do need another box with a power supply and a short Ethernet cord but at least that way you don't have to run a new wire all the way to your router/switch. I have not seen one in a dongle type format but that would be great if there was one.


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## Ron Barry

iasatelliteguy said:


> Who has L4.41? I'm still seeing L4.05 :nono2:


I have it.. I know Rob got it also. It is being rolled out to a limited amount of 622 users in a phased rollout (Common thing to do) and full roll out to 722 user but I don't know if there is any besides Beta users but it based on Tech portal (if its true) and someone's post scheduled for getting a 722 this could mean the 722 will soon be in the wild.

Lets not fill this thread with "I don't have it" posts. IT is a phased rollout and so if you don't get it don't panic, like most of Dish releases if they support board does not light up with issues or if something does not get reported that is really ugly they will roll it out further and then eventually everyone will get it. This does not happen overnight and it can take more than a month to fully roll it out depending on a number of factors such as number of receivers in the market. Patience is a virtue here.


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## Moridin

Rob Glasser said:


> I see this option being critical for those that need to have their receiver replaced for service. It would be nice if when/if your HDMI port dies and you need a new receiver that you could move all your recordings to a USB drive, and then move them back to the new receiver when you get it.


Add to that the capability to move configuration data (timers, minimally) using the external HDD functionality, and swapping a receiver would become almost painless.


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## MarcusInMD

AWESOME NEWS! With folders this makes it the BEST HD DVR ever made IMO.


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## aginzu

What's the functionality of the ethernet port besides possibly replacing the phone line for ordering PPV? Can the receiver be accessed via a browser or other network interface to view it's status or to set up recording events?


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## Eagles

harsh said:


> I suspect that this will be answered in the coming Tech Forum on Monday night. If not, you'll have to wait until Wednesday.Probably for much the same reasons as sharing the USB drive between receivers won't be supported initially.
> 
> If you wanted the program on another receiver, why did you record it on this one?


Thanks Harsh,

As far as why, the main reason is I don't want to have to buy 2 EHD's to do what one will do. My viewing and recording habits are such that each 622 tends to get filled up pretty quick during the fall and spring TV seasons but one EHD would be enough to take up the slack for both receivers. Also, depending on what mood my wife and I may be in we can choose bedroom or family room for any given show. For that choice to happen now I would have to record the same show on both 622's. I know this is a support forum, but I have to laugh when discussing this as I can remember as a kid having one black and white TV in the house with 4 VHF channels (ABC, NBC, CBS, & PBS) and a couple of UHF channels. You actually had to get up to change the channels.


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## Tlaz

ebaltz said:


> Is there such a thing as a LAN port WiFI dongle. I have a wireless network and don't want to run a cable to my TV area. My PS3 connects wirelessly and would like my 622 to as well. Anyway to do this with a dongle or do I need a full blown access point wireless router type thing down by my TV?


Yes, sometimes called wireless game adapters or wireless client adapters. Some access points and routers can be configured for this type of function as well, such as the ZyXEL P330W. Just make sure the wireless adapter works well with your wireless router.


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## tnsprin

MarcusInMD said:


> AWESOME NEWS! With folders this makes it the BEST HD DVR ever made IMO.


The folder option essentially sorts titles, and then puts all shows witth the same title in a folder. Not necessarily what everyone wants with their folders.


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## MarcusInMD

tnsprin said:


> The folder option essentially sorts titles, and then puts all shows witth the same title in a folder. Not necessarily what everyone wants with their folders.


That's the way I want it to work. Keep the programs with the same titles in their own folder.


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## Ron Barry

aginzu said:


> What's the functionality of the ethernet port besides possibly replacing the phone line for ordering PPV? Can the receiver be accessed via a browser or other network interface to view it's status or to set up recording events?


Not that I can tell. Based on early reports on a Tech chat that is coming but External USB Support is a big release so I doubt they would do that also.


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## Ron Barry

tnsprin said:


> The folder option essentially sorts titles, and then puts all shows witth the same title in a folder. Not necessarily what everyone wants with their folders.


If I recall, they said folders would be a phased in feature. This is phase one with the ability to create folders phase 2 and we would not see that for some time. The Grouping by Title feature is very nice and will be most welcome by people that record seasons and for parents with kids that want to record 20 sponge bobs.


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## DBS Commando

ebaltz said:


> I am still on 4.05 as of 9:00am PDT





nicedeboy26 said:


> No upgraded software here, guess dish doesn't love me as much as you guys.


This was a phased roll out. We have to wait until Dish confirms the software works properly and then makes a full roll out.

Until then, patience is required.


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## klaatu

I've had L4.41 for a few hours and have had 2 spontaneous and unrepeatable reboots. The first time I was exploring the new diagnostics pages, the second I was viewing past purchases.

Has anyone else had reboots? My 622 rarely rebooted under L4.05.


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## tnsprin

Anyone know what speed ethernet is in the ViP622? 10MB/100mb/1GB? 
Any hints out on ports needed for a Firewall?


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## Rob Glasser

Ron Barry said:


> Definitely some good use cases for enable that functionality Rob. I hope they do enable it soon.


I have just confirmed with Dish that for the time being you will not be able to move the hard drive to other receivers on your account. It will be encoded to the receiver it's first hooked up to.

The feature will indeed cost $39.99, a one time cost for your entire account, and will be available to order on August 15th, 2007, which is also the date the ViP722 DVR will be available to new customers, for free, or existing customers, at a reduced cost.

Mike Johnson and I are working on a document right now about this release and will have it posted shortly.


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## James Long

NAT should be enough. As long as your firewall allows connection when the protected device starts the conversation you shouldn't need to touch the firewall.


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## Ron Barry

klaatu said:


> I've had L4.41 for a few hours and have had 2 spontaneous and unrepeatable reboots. The first time I was exploring the new diagnostics pages, the second I was viewing past purchases.
> 
> Has anyone else had reboots? My 622 rarely rebooted under L4.05.


I have not seen any reboots but I have not accessed those pages.... I will give it a try. What I suggest. Do a power cord reboot. I have always been a believer that is a good thing to do after a update. WHy? Well personally I don't know but my based on experience my guess is that sometimes things don't ge properly cleared out. Just a guess though and worth a shot.

Also.. if it does happen again, try and reproduce and get some steps.... If it is real.. steps make it real easy to track down and fix.


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## Rob Glasser

tnsprin said:


> Anyone know what speed ethernet is in the ViP622? 10MB/100mb/1GB?
> Any hints out on ports needed for a Firewall?


I didn't check to see if it connected at 10 or 100 but I do know I did not have to touch my firewall. All the connection attempts appear to be initiated from the receiver so as long as your not blocking outbound traffic you should be fine.


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## elbodude

Has anybody tried a USB network dongle? Or is ethernet only available through the ethernet port?


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## Ron Barry

tnsprin said:


> Any hints out on ports needed for a Firewall?


I have 100MB ethernet at my house and it appears to be working with that. My guess is the 622 ports are most likely 100MB. Would assume the 722s are the same but I don't have any facts to base that off. I would be really suprised if it is 1GB.


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## tnsprin

James Long said:


> NAT should be enough. As long as your firewall allows connection when the protected device starts the conversation you shouldn't need to touch the firewall.


In my firewall all ports are closed unless I open them. Including common ones like 80/443.


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## DBS Commando

Does anyone think that this software update will be in full phase by Aug. 15?


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## iasatelliteguy

aginzu said:


> What's the functionality of the ethernet port besides possibly replacing the phone line for ordering PPV? Can the receiver be accessed via a browser or other network interface to view it's status or to set up recording events?


Supposedly it will be possible to do just that.

I think it would be awesome and we can only hope.


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## Ron Barry

tnsprin said:


> In my firewall all ports are closed unless I open them. Including common ones like 80/443.


So are mine for incoming.. Well my guess is that the for the IPConnect feature to work no incoming initiated traffic is required. Just a guess and it appears that way given my configuration. I did not have to open and ports and things appear to be working and I don't get the nag screen for not being connected to the phone line and I currently am not.


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## klaatu

After attaching and enabling ethernet I noticed a constant access from the 622 to www.dishnetwork.com (expected) and refractor02.managed.contegix.com (unknown). I assume E* uses Contegix as a web service host/enabler, but would like to make sure. For the time being - my Firewall is blocking the 622.

FYI: The 622 does not accept HTML connections. Has anyone tried other TCP/UDP connections?


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## tnsprin

Ron Barry said:


> So are mine for incoming.. Well my guess is that the for the IPConnect feature to work no incoming initiated traffic is required. Just a guess and it appears that way given my configuration. I did not have to open and ports and things appear to be working and I don't get the nag screen for not being connected to the phone line and I currently am not.


Mine are closed both way. And my 622 that got the update is not the one which I have a ethernet wire to. I quess I will have to open a few of the most common ones and then watch the traffic once I get L4.41 on my other 622.


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## BillJ

Why is everyone so anxious to get this update? Remember all those dead HDMIs with 4.09. The update sounds great but I don't want it until it's been field tested for at least a month. Thus, one improvement I'd like to see is the ability we had with older receivers to prevent software updates until we manually accepted them.


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## nextime

Will the external hard drive work seamlessly in the 622? e.g. Instead of showing 250 hours of recording time it would show, lets say 500hrs. depending on hard drive size. Or will you have to select external hard drive to retrieve stored programs? Thanks in advance.


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## boylehome

I hooked up my old EHDD. It was formatted and now needs activation.

I connected it to broadband and now am showing "Connected Online" with IP Address, Subnet Mask, Primary DNS/Secondary DNS and a MAC Address. In testing the connection it reads phone line and broadband, "OK".


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## Ron Barry

nextime said:



> Will the external hard drive work seamlessly in the 622? e.g. Instead of showing 250 hours of recording time it would show, lets say 500hrs. depending on hard drive size. Or will you have to select external hard drive to retrieve stored programs? Thanks in advance.


Here is a linke showing pictures for the CES show.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=75628&page=9

To answer your question it is archival however it appears you can play back contant back from it without have to restore the content to your 622/722.


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## ChuckA

It does not automatically add hours to the internal HDD recording space. You have to manually move programs from the internal HDD to the external HDD. Then the programs can be played directly from the HDD or they can be copied back to the 622 internal HDD.


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## ChuckA

klaatu said:


> FYI: The 622 does not accept HTML connections. Has anyone tried other TCP/UDP connections?


What are you expecting to get out of connecting to it?  I believe the 622 is the client not the server. It establishes connections with Dish servers and does not expect client connections to it. At least, that's my take on it.


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## slowmo

Eagles said:


> Thanks Harsh,
> 
> As far as why, the main reason is I don't want to have to buy 2 EHD's to do what one will do. My viewing and recording habits are such that each 622 tends to get filled up pretty quick during the fall and spring TV seasons but one EHD would be enough to take up the slack for both receivers. Also, depending on what mood my wife and I may be in we can choose bedroom or family room for any given show. For that choice to happen now I would have to record the same show on both 622's. I know this is a support forum, but I have to laugh when discussing this as I can remember as a kid having one black and white TV in the house with 4 VHF channels (ABC, NBC, CBS, & PBS) and a couple of UHF channels. You actually had to get up to change the channels.


I don't recall having to get up to change the channels as a kid. We just sat in front of the TV and turned the knob back and forth rapidly. That really made Dad happy.


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## Lincoln6Echo

Well, wouldn't you know it...yesterday I post a thread asking about new software version and whalla, today there's a new one! 

Sounds like how we make it rain here...our '95 Lincoln Towncar has a windshield that leaks...and as you can guess, all we have to do to make it rain here is to take it out of the barn.


Anyway, just checked my receiver, and I've still got 4.05


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## JaguarJoJo

Rob Glasser said:


> Please use this thread for all discussions regarding your experiences with L4.41 including any bugs or issues you encounter.
> 
> Here are the Release Notes for L4.41 for the ViP622/ViP722.
> 
> Ok, I've scanned through the release and there are a lot of new features, here is what I've got so far, I will work on details more tomorrow:
> 
> *
> * External USB Hard Drive Support
> * DVR List Groups (Folders)
> * New Icon to identify the OTA Tuner and Timers
> * Broadband Dial Out Support for status and PPVs
> * New Screensaver
> * Trick Modes Improvement - Much more accurate and smooth, IMHO
> *


When I click on your release note reference, I get those for the L4.09 abortion.

JoJo


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## Rob Glasser

anthonyi said:


> Can we by any external usb hard drive and what is the size limit?


I have confirmed the max size at this time is 750GB, and any USB 2.0 external hard drive up to that size should work.


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## DBS Commando

JaguarJoJo said:


> When I click on your release note reference, I get those for the L4.09 abortion.
> 
> JoJo


He linked to the wrong thread


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## Rob Glasser

JaguarJoJo said:


> When I click on your release note reference, I get those for the L4.09 abortion.
> 
> JoJo


Thanks for catching that, I fixed it. Sorry about the error.


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## craig8868

Is it safe to assume that since I did not get the download last night, I will have to wait until tomorrow morning to check again? or do they push new software at any time during the day? 

Thanks
Craig


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## Mark Lamutt

aginzu said:


> What's the functionality of the ethernet port besides possibly replacing the phone line for ordering PPV? Can the receiver be accessed via a browser or other network interface to view it's status or to set up recording events?


That's coming...not in this release, though.


----------



## JaguarJoJo

I received the L441 release on one of my two 622s overnight. While I have not tried the HD addition, it did screw up my HDMI, which has been a problem since the aborted L4.09. I had reached a temporary HDMI solution by connecting as a DVI (which it displays) and resetting the HDMI every day. The HDMI reset has been once again eliminated in this release, which means that particular 622 is now useless. My other 622 still has L405, so time will tell what will happen to it.

JoJo


----------



## DBS Commando

craig8868 said:


> Is it safe to assume that since I did not get the download last night, I will have to wait until tomorrow morning to check again? or do they push new software at any time during the day?
> 
> Thanks
> Craig


You have to wait until the techs at echostar phase it to EVERYONE. First the do a PARTIAL phase to make sure it doesn't break anything. If all is well, they'll release it to all 622's on the market. Until then, you have to wait.


----------



## craig8868

DBS Commando said:


> You have to wait until the techs at echostar phase it to EVERYONE. First the do a PARTIAL phase to make sure it doesn't break anything. If all is well, they'll release it to all 622's on the market. Until then, you have to wait.


Thanks DBScommando, but that wasn't my question.  I realize I need to wait for it but do they update receivers at any time during the day or ONLY at night?


----------



## DBS Commando

craig8868 said:


> Thanks DBScommando, but that wasn't my question.  I realize I need to wait for it but do they update receivers at any time during the day or ONLY at night?


I think they can do it at anytime. They usually do it at night.


----------



## craig8868

DBS Commando said:


> I think they can do it at anytime. They usually do it at night.


Thanks


----------



## Mark Lamutt

It'll be next week before anyone else gets the software. Occasionally software will spool mid-morning Mountain time, but most of the time it goes overnight.

There are some really cool things for the DVR Folders feature that are in the works. The group by title is just the very beginning of this one.

FWIW, I've been using a WD MyBook 250 GB external drive through the testing phase of the external drive stuff, and it works very well. The only drive that I've heard anyone at all have any difficulty with so far is the WD MyBook 500GB drive. Not sure if it was the standard edition or the premium edition. And, I'm not sure that it wasn't a drive problem rather than a software problem. But, there you have it.


----------



## koralis

Ron Barry said:


> So are mine for incoming.. Well my guess is that the for the IPConnect feature to work no incoming initiated traffic is required. Just a guess and it appears that way given my configuration. I did not have to open and ports and things appear to be working and I don't get the nag screen for not being connected to the phone line and I currently am not.


I'd origianlly thought the incoming port would need to be opened, but on second thought that'd be a bad way to do it anyway. Chances are that the DVR will check a website/database periodically to get any new programming instructions that you upload (when the feature eventually becomes available.)


----------



## Ron Barry

koralis said:


> I'd origianlly thought the incoming port would need to be opened, but on second thought that'd be a bad way to do it anyway. Chances are that the DVR will check a website/database periodically to get any new programming instructions that you upload (when the feature eventually becomes available.)


Even though I did get the nag screen.. looking at the release notes, it appears that everything on IPConnect is not working yet so I have plugged my phone line back in and I would suggest others to do the same. Until there is more information and we here that it is good to go.


----------



## TheCaptain

It looks like this new version killed the HDMI port connected to a DVI TV set. Everything worked fine yesterday, now today I don't have a picture. After connecting through composite I noticed I now have firmware 4.41. I am pretty sure I was still on 4.05 as of yesterday. From what I can see it is not able to read the EDID data correctly (it just shows up as all F's and says invalid checksum). Since it can't read the data it not able to sync correctly and therefore never enables the video.

After calling tech support and jumping through their mandatory hoops they were of no help. There is supposed to be someone coming on Monday to look at the issue, but I really don't know what they can do. They wouldn't even transfer me to level 2 support. The person I was talking to said this had nothing to do with a firmware update since I was getting a signal and said I really needed to check my facts.


----------



## shortspark

Mark Lamutt said:


> It'll be next week before anyone else gets the software. Occasionally software will spool mid-morning Mountain time, but most of the time it goes overnight.
> 
> There are some really cool things for the DVR Folders feature that are in the works. The group by title is just the very beginning of this one.
> 
> FWIW, I've been using a WD MyBook 250 GB external drive through the testing phase of the external drive stuff, and it works very well. The only drive that I've heard anyone at all have any difficulty with so far is the WD MyBook 500GB drive. Not sure if it was the standard edition or the premium edition. And, I'm not sure that it wasn't a drive problem rather than a software problem. But, there you have it.


I have this very same external drive hooked up to my PC. When my 622 is enabled, I was going to try some transfers with it as a test and, if all is working, go buy a dedicated one for the 622. Will I be able to simply detach the MyBook from my PC, hook it up to the 622 for the test and then return it to the PC? My concern is that data that I have saved on the MyBook will be erased by the 622 if it needs to reformat the drive. Does anyone know or speculate as to the compatibility of one external drive doing dual duty between the dish and the PC?


----------



## tomcrown1

I still have the L405. I will not pay $40.00 for the use of an ext hard drive.


----------



## slh7d

I like the folder option, but then it sorts the recorded program alphabetically. I still want them to be in the order in which they are recorded, so not using it.


----------



## ChuckA

shortspark said:


> I have this very same external drive hooked up to my PC. When my 622 is enabled, I was going to try some transfers with it as a test and, if all is working, go buy a dedicated one for the 622. Will I be able to simply detach the MyBook from my PC, hook it up to the 622 for the test and then return it to the PC? My concern is that data that I have saved on the MyBook will be erased by the 622 if it needs to reformat the drive. Does anyone know or speculate as to the compatibility of one external drive doing dual duty between the dish and the PC?


It will reformat the drive so don't connect it if you have anything on the drive you want to keep. You should be able to reformat it back for the PC after you test it on the 622. However, no data can be retained in either direction.


----------



## anthonyi

No upgrade on my 622. Nothing new.


----------



## aginzu

So far 4.41 is working fine on my 622. Other than the new features I haven't noticed much of a difference from 4.05. I plan to get an external hard drive for it as soon as DISH can enable it. 

A 500GB external drive costs about $110 and actually turns out to be a pretty cost effective archival storage medium because it can hold about 50 hours of HD and 500 hours of SD programming. That comes to about $2.20 per HD hour and $.22 per SD hour, which is about the same cost as DVD-RW disks which can't even store HD. Once it fills up I can buy another one... not a bad way to build a library of stuff to watch.


----------



## booger

yardbird said:


> #1 External hard drive will be formatted using a proprietary format. You can then ONLY use it for your 622


It may look like a proprietary format and E* may call it that but I bet it will be an open source file system that handles video well (large files). Which is why the 'ONLY use with your 622' will not be the case for long.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

All things considered, and I haven't checked in a while... but I wouldn't be surprised if there was a 1GB Ethernet on there. Not because it is necessary by any means... 100Mbit is far superior to anyone's actual internet connections, even FiOs folks with the expensive packages.

But in comparing prices, I usually see very little difference in 1GB vs 10/100Mbit Ethernet adapters. Where the price jumps are for routers and gateways to support 1GB. Long ago I was tempted to just buy 1GB adapters for my computers since the cost was the same and then if I ever spring for a 1GB router I'd be good to go.

So while I suspect we have 100Mbit Ethernet onboard the ViPs... it wouldn't surprise me if 1GB was found.


----------



## James Long

booger said:


> It may look like a proprietary format and E* may call it that but I bet it will be an open source file system that handles video well (large files). Which is why the 'ONLY use with your 622' will not be the case for long.


And anyone providing such information or pointers will be promptly banned:
"_Discussion about hacking into the content of Personal Video Recorders (PVR's) including digital transfer of undecoded programming from the PVR's hard drive to another medium is prohibited._"​


----------



## Hunter Green

I see my 622 has claimed an address from DHCP with the informative name of "My Media Player", but what no one's asking is, will this make that stupid $5 no phone line fee go away? Please?

In previous threads people often said it wouldn't, but now people are specifically saying it allows you to 'replace your phone line'. So my hopeful spirit has been revitalized.

If it does indeed, I wonder if we're going to have to go through an odyssey to get it changed, or if it'll happen automatically. If anyone knows anything about this (Mark?) it'd be wonderful to hear.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

shortspark said:


> I have this very same external drive hooked up to my PC. When my 622 is enabled, I was going to try some transfers with it as a test and, if all is working, go buy a dedicated one for the 622. Will I be able to simply detach the MyBook from my PC, hook it up to the 622 for the test and then return it to the PC? My concern is that data that I have saved on the MyBook will be erased by the 622 if it needs to reformat the drive. Does anyone know or speculate as to the compatibility of one external drive doing dual duty between the dish and the PC?


As others have said, I will absolutely confirm for you: Your 622 will need to reformat your external drive to use it. The format is not compatible with Windows, so when you transfer it back to your PC, you'll have to reformat it again. You lose everything on the drive each time you do that. You will not be able to use the same drive on both, unless your PC is running a Linux flavor.


----------



## booger

James Long said:


> And anyone providing such information or pointers will be promptly banned:
> "_Discussion about hacking into the content of Personal Video Recorders (PVR's) including digital transfer of undecoded programming from the PVR's hard drive to another medium is prohibited._"​


I completely agree. Hopefully things will stay secure so that this archiving feature doesn't go away.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

Hunter Green said:


> I see my 622 has claimed an address from DHCP with the informative name of "My Media Player", but what no one's asking is, will this make that stupid $5 no phone line fee go away? Please?
> 
> In previous threads people often said it wouldn't, but now people are specifically saying it allows you to 'replace your phone line'. So my hopeful spirit has been revitalized.
> 
> If it does indeed, I wonder if we're going to have to go through an odyssey to get it changed, or if it'll happen automatically. If anyone knows anything about this (Mark?) it'd be wonderful to hear.


I have no idea yet, but I'll look into it.


----------



## booger

Another issue I was thinking about was the fact that many E* customers with broadband will need help in opening the proper port(s) on their routers to allow them to access their receivers remotely. To be honest, I'm surprised that E* would offer this feature.

It will be a huge head ache for the CSRs.

Forgive me if this have been covered.


----------



## James Long

It looks like the only people needing help with ports are those who were savy enough to lock down their system where an inside machine can't reach the outside without permission. I don't believe anyone who simply bought a router/firewall and plugged into their system is going to need help. They are generally designed to keep outside computers out and allow inside computers to get out without permission (unless one chooses to change the settings and block stuff).

Hopefully the next step in the chain (the ISP) will simply pass on the request as well and not block or cache anything.

I suspect problems will be few and far between. Hopefully E*'s server is up to the task of taking all those call ins!


----------



## Moridin

James, I think Booger was talking about the rumored next step, which is allowing timers to be remotely set over the ethernet connection. Depending on the implementation, that could require punching holes through firewalls.

Of course, the mysterious second address people have reported their 622s talking to could very well be part of a polling mechanism to see if there are new timers to request for download; that would get around the headache of CSRs fielding basic networking connections.


----------



## booger

Moridin said:


> James, I think Booger was talking about the rumored next step, which is allowing timers to be remotely set over the ethernet connection. Depending on the implementation, that could require punching holes through firewalls.
> 
> Of course, the mysterious second address people have reported their 622s talking to could very well be part of a polling mechanism to see if there are new timers to request for download; that would get around the headache of CSRs fielding basic networking connections.


You are correct my friend. I didn't explain myself better and good point.


----------



## James Long

I run several pieces of software on my home computer (including a cool one from LogMeIn.com) that punch their own way through my firewall and give me 24/7 access to stuff at home. I've also used VOIP devices that didn't need ports opened.

As long as the firewall doesn't prevent the inside device from making the connection it isn't hard to run a daemon.


----------



## booger

James Long said:


> I run several pieces of software on my home computer (including a cool one from LogMeIn.com) that punch their own way through my firewall and give me 24/7 access to stuff at home. I've also used VOIP devices that didn't need ports opened.
> 
> As long as the firewall doesn't prevent the inside device from making the connection it isn't hard to run a daemon.


Another good point you make James.

I know that IPTV services require router modifications for some users to work properly. I know that it deals with streaming rather than just connectivity though.

It will also depend how their ISP has things setup...possibly.

I'm sure E* has thought of this though. I would just hate to see CSR's on the phone more often trying to solve network issues.


----------



## James Long

I have some professional gear at work that needs ports opened. I can see where the high bandwidth of live IPTV would best be served by UDP protocol and unless your router is smart enough to see what is related to outgoing traffic a little help in configuration would be needed.

For things such as remote scheduling (not yet release) and the check in/PPV reporting no such high speed pipe is needed.


----------



## EVAC41

tnsprin said:


> As far as the 622 is concerned its wired, although there are wireless adapters available if you don't want to string another wire.


This is what I have currently (Wireless)... I took it out of my playstation 2... I really don't go online anymore with my ps2.. But now I have to keep my internet connection open.. UMMMMM Don't really like that idea. But might have to live with it.. I shut it off as a extra percautation even thought I am behind 2 firewalls.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

I'm not nearly as savvy as some of you with the routers, port setup, and the like. I have my router working out of the box with (almost) no changes to any of the ports or anything else except the router password and locking my wireless down. I've had no problems connecting to the Dish servers for the IP callback that's available now, or for the rumored features that may be coming down the road that may be in testing now. When all is said and done, the averavge user isn't going to have to do anything to their router setup to connect the 622/722 to it and use the features. It's going to be seamless.


----------



## James Long

For those who have taken additional steps to secure their network:

If you control your DHCP use the MAC address to force the 622 to a specific address and only open up "full outgoing access" to that device (if you want to protect other equipment from getting out).
(Check your router logs or Menu-6-1-9-1 on an L441 622 to find the MAC address.)

I understand the value of blocking unknown outgoing connections ... the next Trojan may get installed on your machine before your virus software catches it. Blocking unknown outgoing connections could prevent someone from tampering with your machine (unless they simply use a well known port that you have left open ...).


----------



## Stewart Vernon

I'm curious (and cannot test myself with current config) how the remote access will work when you have more than one ViP in the home.

My internet goes from my DSL modem to my router. Everything in my house that needs an IP gets a "fake" one from that router.. so to the outside world I am just 1 IP granted to the router.

As long as all the requests are from the ViP to the Internet, there should be no problems because the router (for folks that don't already know) takes care of the "smarts" required to remember which "fake" IP in the house requested the info.

But if there was ever a need for Dish to contact the receiver directly, that could not be done with the conventional router configuration like I have... since the outside world has no direct link to my internal devices. By-design, this is a great form of protection even before you configure a firewall.

This has caused problems in the past with online gaming, say with my PS/2 back in the day.. where it needed to be seen from the outside world with a real Internet address.. so I used to have to disconnect my router and go directly to my DSL modem with the PS/2 to play games online.

Anyway, lots of rambling here that may not be a problem... but just curious whenever the time comes.


----------



## Jim5506

TiVo's remote programming works by having you name the units you have and directing the recording to whichever name you choose from a dropdown list. It is not immediate, but updates the unit when the unit "calls" in for updates nightly.


----------



## iasatelliteguy

HDMe said:


> I'm curious (and cannot test myself with current config) how the remote access will work when you have more than one ViP in the home.
> 
> My internet goes from my DSL modem to my router. Everything in my house that needs an IP gets a "fake" one from that router.. so to the outside world I am just 1 IP granted to the router.
> 
> As long as all the requests are from the ViP to the Internet, there should be no problems because the router (for folks that don't already know) takes care of the "smarts" required to remember which "fake" IP in the house requested the info.
> 
> But if there was ever a need for Dish to contact the receiver directly, that could not be done with the conventional router configuration like I have... since the outside world has no direct link to my internal devices. By-design, this is a great form of protection even before you configure a firewall.
> 
> This has caused problems in the past with online gaming, say with my PS/2 back in the day.. where it needed to be seen from the outside world with a real Internet address.. so I used to have to disconnect my router and go directly to my DSL modem with the PS/2 to play games online.
> 
> Anyway, lots of rambling here that may not be a problem... but just curious whenever the time comes.


Each VIP has a unique MAC, and serial number, that is how they would differentiate between multiple boxes on the same network. IP address is irrelevant. (Just a guess...)


----------



## moman19

My original 622 from Day 1 was recently replaced by E* with the hope it would resolve a few ongoing reception issues. Does this place me at the end of the update line? I used to get SW upgrades quickly but now I'm stuck at 4.05.

Yes, it's in standby.......


----------



## Mike D-CO5

I would think the newer the receiver the longer it will take to get the update. I recently replaced my second 622 I've had since the beginning and it has yet to receive any update past L4.05. Even when they rolled back the software , I didn't receive it because it never got L4.06 or L4.09.


----------



## scottmail

I guess I got the update last night!! Is there a specific type of hard drive or hard drive size that the 622 is limited to?


----------



## Rob Glasser

scottmail said:


> I guess I got the update last night!! Is there a specific type of hard drive or hard drive size that the 622 is limited to?


Any USB 2.0 hard drive up to 750GB is supported at this time, you just can't call to activate until the 15th.


----------



## Ron Barry

Mike D-CO5 said:


> I would think the newer the receiver the longer it will take to get the update. I recently replaced my second 622 I've had since the beginning and it has yet to receive any update past L4.05. Even when they rolled back the software , I didn't receive it because it never got L4.06 or L4.09.


Actually based on what I have seen it does not appear to be tied to how old your receiver is or how long. I actually think it is pretty random, but ofcourse that is just a guess. Like said early. Patience guys.


----------



## FaxMan

I don't think I've seen this reported yet, but there seems to be a feature not in the notes...

When in a guide, right under the favorite display name, a little message pops up indicating that pressing guide again will change you to the (next) guide display.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

iasatelliteguy said:


> Each VIP has a unique MAC, and serial number, that is how they would differentiate between multiple boxes on the same network. IP address is irrelevant. (Just a guess...)


Every ethernet device has a unique MAC address... but the internet can't see those either, unless directly connected. My internal network can see all the MAC addresses (that's how the router knows how to route on those internal "fake" IP addresses).. but the internet only sees the MAC address of my router.

I'm guessing all the communications must be one-way request and answer from the ViP to the Web site.


----------



## mike1002

Has anyone noticed a drop is signal strength post L441? I had heard that happened when we went to 409 (although I didn't see it then). But now that I'm on 441 it appears all the sats dropped. 110 and 119 are about 62 and 129 is at 41. I was getting up around 93 on 110/119 before and 129 was about 76. I don't see a problem with any of my channels yet but then I haven't explored all of them. I did notice when I run the check switch that 110/119 pass and 129 fails and the detail says I'm getting several signal loses on both tuners. 441 seems to have fixed the drop outs I was getting on one of my local OTA stations. I don't see the little antenna icon some of have seen for the OTA channels.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed.


----------



## Moridin

HDMe said:


> I'm guessing all the communications must be one-way request and answer from the ViP to the Web site.


Based on Mark's comments about rumored features that might be in testing working seamlessly without performing any additional network configuration, that's the only possible answer.


----------



## DonnieH

What is tricks mode? Is there any advantage to hooking up to ethernet? What will that be used for? Transfer movie to my computer so I can burn to DVDs?

Thanks!


----------



## Ron Barry

Yes.. it appears that the new signal meter is in L4.41. If you notice you see the warning saying it has changed. Based on the scale, it appears to me that anything above 10 would be considered good but that is just by the fact 0 and 10 are different colors than the rest of the numbers. The bottom line is.... is your picture breaking up or do you have picture lose.


----------



## Moridin

DonnieH said:


> What is tricks mode? Is there any advantage to hooking up to ethernet? What will that be used for? Transfer movie to my computer so I can burn to DVDs?


Generally speaking, trick mode is FF/Rewind.

The only ethernet advantage being offered by the 441 software release is that you no longer need a phone line connected to your receiver _if_ you have the ethernet port of the 622 connected to a network with an internet connection. The 622 will connect over the internet to Dish's servers to "phone home" instead of making a POTS call over the modem. The rumored features possible with the ethernet connection (in a later software release) include configuring timers remotely, and either downloading or streaming PPV content.

The ability to transfer content from the 622 to a computer for viewing or burning to DVD? Not in this lifetime. The content providers would never allow Dish to enable that kind of feature.


----------



## Rob Glasser

FaxMan said:


> I don't think I've seen this reported yet, but there seems to be a feature not in the notes...
> 
> When in a guide, right under the favorite display name, a little message pops up indicating that pressing guide again will change you to the (next) guide display.


Good catch, yes, there is now a message that tells you what list you'll see if you hit guide again. Thanks


----------



## Rob Glasser

I just wanted to let everyone know that I have uploaded a PDF document that Mike Johnson and I put together with a lot of details on the changes and screen shots, check it out. It's attached to the first post of this thread. I hope to have it uploaded to the server itself later and then it will have a direct link.


----------



## Ron Barry

Well done Rob and Mike. Excellent job on getting out a nice docuement highlighting the features. :righton:


----------



## tnsprin

Rob Glasser said:


> Good catch, yes, there is now a message that tells you what list you'll see if you hit guide again. Thanks


That was in L4.06. I guess all the L4.06-L4.09 changes are also included.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

Moridin said:


> Based on Mark's comments about rumored features that might be in testing working seamlessly without performing any additional network configuration, that's the only possible answer.


May seem that way now, but it's not...or maybe it is and just doesn't look like it. Like I said, I'm not a serious IP/network person here.


----------



## bavaria72

OK, here is one issue I see with L4.41 - when I run the System Info screen (6-1-3) field "G", all of the sat signals are red now. I run a switch check and they all are green. Rerun System info - still all red. I have done a hard reboot and it still shows that all 4 of my sats (129, 110, 119, and 61.5) are not being received even though they are. I am getting all channels just an FYI. Interestingly the "hard" reboot definitely took less time than in the past. - Art


----------



## klaatu

bavaria72 said:


> OK, here is one issue I see with L4.41 - when I run the System Info screen (6-1-3) field "G", all of the sat signals are red now. I run a switch check and they all are green. Rerun System info - still all red. I have done a hard reboot and it still shows that all 4 of my sats (129, 110, 119, and 61.5) are not being received even though they are. I am getting all channels just an FYI. Interestingly the "hard" reboot definitely took less time than in the past. - Art


I have had 3 "Check Switch" messages on HD channels while recording - but the 622 keeps on recording while the message that I lost the SATELLITE signal is still on the screen. Makes no sense.

I lost the EPG and had a corrupt (ala L4.09) recording when the 622 finally came up from a UNPLUG reboot.


----------



## diospyros

As anyone can see on the new screensaver, if you push left or right arrows it runs you through some messages (some informational, some tutorial). But, if you hit the up or down arrows you get a quick System Info screen -- but not the normal one. 

Has anyone found anything else that can be done from the screensaver?


----------



## James Long

IIRC some of the messages have a "Press INFO" option to take you straight to the feature.

Personally I prefer to watch TV over the screen saver, but it is better than just the logo ... for those who have the TV on when the receiver is "off".


----------



## archer75

My HDMI is screwed up again. 

I had L405 and HDMI is good.

Then I got L409 and my HDMI would go in and out. There for a second and then lose signal for a second and then back and so on.

That was rolled back to L405 and the HDMI problem went away.

And now I'm on L441 and the problems is back.


----------



## Bagman

Rob Glasser said:


> Any USB 2.0 hard drive up to 750GB is supported at this time, you just can't call to activate until the 15th.


I bought an ACOMDATA 500gb USB2 HDD from Fry's. When I hooked it up, the 622 gives me the message that it must be activated. I did a soft re-boot and i got a message that the USB drive wasn't supported. I never got the re-formatting messages; I wonder if this drive really isn't supported. Should I have gotten the re-formatting drive message?


----------



## archer75

Bagman said:


> I bought an ACOMDATA 500gb USB2 HDD from Fry's. When I hooked it up, the 622 gives me the message that it must be activated. I did a soft re-boot and i got a message that the USB drive wasn't supported. I never got the re-formatting messages; I wonder if this drive really isn't supported. Should I have gotten the re-formatting drive message?


The port needs to be activated first.


----------



## BillJ

I got 4.41 on my older 622 but not on the new one. I had 4.09 on the old 622 and then had it revert to 4.05. My newest 622 never got 4.09. Just as well since it used HDMI and 4.09 was creating problems with HDMI. I wonder if they sent 4.41 to all units that had 4.09 before? 

So far no problems with 4.41. The folders would be nice if I could create my own and drag recording into them. Maybe a later feature to be added? Forgot to look at the signal strength but it sounds like it's exactly the same as 4.09. I find the new screen saver kind of annoying but harmless.


----------



## Bagman

archer75 said:


> The port needs to be activated first.


In the PDF that Rob posted (first post to this thread) it showed messages the the HDD was being re-formatted, etc, so I assumed that after I attached my drive that it would do the same?


----------



## ksilfer

TheCaptain said:


> It looks like this new version killed the HDMI port connected to a DVI TV set. Everything worked fine yesterday, now today I don't have a picture. After connecting through composite I noticed I now have firmware 4.41. I am pretty sure I was still on 4.05 as of yesterday. From what I can see it is not able to read the EDID data correctly (it just shows up as all F's and says invalid checksum). Since it can't read the data it not able to sync correctly and therefore never enables the video.
> 
> After calling tech support and jumping through their mandatory hoops they were of no help. There is supposed to be someone coming on Monday to look at the issue, but I really don't know what they can do. They wouldn't even transfer me to level 2 support. The person I was talking to said this had nothing to do with a firmware update since I was getting a signal and said I really needed to check my facts.


Mine just died with L441 as well (and L409, but came back when reverted to L405).

I dunno how significant the EDID errors and bad checksum are, because I got those same errors with L405, but the HDMI port still worked fine. Maybe they tightened some kind of restriction up with L409/L441, though, so those errors are no longer tolerated in the HDMI handshake...

The main thing in the HDMI test data seems to be whether the HDMI port is enabled on the STB side or not (TRUE or FALSE). I dunno what makes it flip to FALSE, though...

My TV is an older Samsung TSN3084WHD, with a DVI input. It's supposed to be HDCP-compliant...
-- KEENE


----------



## Ken Green

Grandude said:


> Could you tell us what brand and size of HDD you used? Thanks,


Western Digital MyBook, 500gb, ($140)


----------



## TheCaptain

ksilfer said:


> Mine just died with L441 as well (and L409, but came back when reverted to L405).
> 
> I dunno how significant the EDID errors and bad checksum are, because I got those same errors with L405, but the HDMI port still worked fine. Maybe they tightened some kind of restriction up with L409/L441, though, so those errors are no longer tolerated in the HDMI handshake...
> 
> The main thing in the HDMI test data seems to be whether the HDMI port is enabled on the STB side or not (TRUE or FALSE). I dunno what makes it flip to FALSE, though...
> 
> My TV is an older Samsung TSN3084WHD, with a DVI input. It's supposed to be HDCP-compliant...
> -- KEENE


I have a Toshiba 50HDX82, which is about 5 years old, and it is also supposed to be HDCP compiant. I can't remember if I was getting the EDID errors before, but I believe I could see the correct EDID data. Now all I get is an bunch of FF's. It doesn't look like it is reading and data from the DVI port.

I have even tried to connect it to a Dell LCD monitor with a DVI port with the same results.


----------



## Hunter Green

Seems at least according to the guide we've suddenly lost a whole bunch of HD channels. All the Voom channels at the very least. What's up there? I know they're looking to switch them to MPEG4, but my 622 should be able to handle that, right? Did I miss a memo?


----------



## Rob Glasser

Hunter Green said:


> Seems at least according to the guide we've suddenly lost a whole bunch of HD channels. All the Voom channels at the very least. What's up there? I know they're looking to switch them to MPEG4, but my 622 should be able to handle that, right? Did I miss a memo?


I just looked, I seem to have all of my HD channels still. Are you maybe on a limited favorites list?


----------



## craig8868

Does anyone have a basic idea of how much HD and/or SD content will fit on a 160GB HDD??

Thanks
Craig


----------



## Rob Glasser

craig8868 said:


> Does anyone have a basic idea of how much HD and/or SD content will fit on a 160GB HDD??
> 
> Thanks
> Craig


The rule of thumb I've gone with for MPEG2 HD content is about 10GB per hour, so in this case about 16 hours. You can multiply that by 7 or 8 for SD content. This is just a an estimate however and MPEG4 HD content takes less space so your numbers could go up, depending what you are recording. Basically 160GB is about half what's in your 622 today.

I also want to add that these numbers are based on the 622 having about 300GB of storage for recordings and the GUI saying you have 30hrs of recording space when empty. It may be that shows actually take up less than this on the hard drive and we may get more out of USB drives.


----------



## wwfmike

I just called a tech support person (before reading this forum (yes I should know better!)) and she told me that the minimum hard drive will be 40GB. Someone handed her a paper on the EHD feature and she read most of it to me. Nothing new that hasn't been mentioned here. The $40 fee is BS though, especially after having to pay for this receiver. Seems like those wanting the latest and newest features always get taken advantage of.


One thing that has always annoyed me is during the frame by frame pause feature. It works perfectly going forward but when you go back it jusut jumps backwards a few seconds instead of going frame by frame. Is there a reason for this?


----------



## craig8868

Rob Glasser said:


> The rule of thumb I've gone with for MPEG2 HD content is about 10GB per hour, so in this case about 16 hours. You can multiply that by 7 or 8 for SD content. This is just a an estimate however and MPEG4 HD content takes less space so your numbers could go up, depending what you are recording. Basically 160GB is about half what's in your 622 today.
> 
> I also want to add that these numbers are based on the 622 having about 300GB of storage for recordings and the GUI saying you have 30hrs of recording space when empty. It may be that shows actually take up less than this on the hard drive and we may get more out of USB drives.


Thanks Rob-appreciate the info.


----------



## bill-e

Two Questions.

Groups. Is there any way to maybe edit a title and put a prefix or something on it and get it to sort into a group that way? I'd like, for instance, to be able to put all the content recorded for my granddaughter into a folder...or even movies, just to unclutter the main display.

Second question. Do we have a recommended HD for this? If one got a 1TB disk, would it partition it to 750gb or just not work at all? I'd like to purchase the biggest drive that will work...only once if possible 

Thanks.


----------



## MNipper

I've not ever seen this happen before. I had a recording setup to fire at 3:40AM this morning. It should have gone for 1:45, but when I checked it this morning, it indicated that it was only 33 minutes long. When I scrolled backwards, in the PVR window, the recording shows as having been "stopped" at 4:12AM (FYI, my nightly reboot occurs at 3AM).

All of my AV equipment lives off of a UPS, so this is not a power-related event. It just seems to have decided to stop, all on its own.

Again... really haven't seen this happen before, and I have no guesses as to any other possible causes.


----------



## druckerdave

I got L4.41 yesterday, unlike L4.09 (macroblocking issues) all is good at the moment... a few thoughts come to mind as I read other posts in this thread.
HDMI is very convenient connection system but the required use of HDCP means that if software AND hardware is not implemented correctly or a poor connection, signal transfer will be disabled by sending device, unfortunately some early DVI and HDMI hardware has "bugs".there may be limits to what E* programmers can do to accommodate certain hardware.
USB HDD support , probably has been difficult to implement and protect the content from "misuse" by end users. So HDD MUST be formatted and bonded to STB and content encrypted on a format that is NOT movable to a device that can remove the stored content. As this is a new feature, E* is wisely rolling out with minimal functionality. 
Ethernet, at the moment is the least useful new hardware feature at the moment however if the can be used in place of phone line has a value saving the second tuner tariff or the cost of a phone line ($20 saved here). Nat router should not be a issue as STB polls server and short cycle polling means users may be able to login to a E* website and manage timers and more.
The most important thing to me is stability of the 622, and if it means that we must wait for full functionality then thats Ok with me! :grin:


----------



## isuzudave

slh7d said:


> I like the folder option, but then it sorts the recorded program alphabetically. I still want them to be in the order in which they are recorded, so not using it.


All the programs in a folder have the same name, right? If they all have the same name, it must sort them by some other way than alphabetically. By date recorded would be one way.
Let's say I have a folder for "Modern Marvels". In that folder I might have episodes recorded six months ago and episodes recorded one hour ago. It would make sense that the "Modern Marvels" folder would have to be placed alphabetically amongst the other folders.
Is this how the new folder option works?


----------



## ksilfer

druckerdave said:


> HDMI is very convenient connection system but the required use of HDCP means that if software AND hardware is not implemented correctly or a poor connection, signal transfer will be disabled by sending device, unfortunately some early DVI and HDMI hardware has "bugs".there may be limits to what E* programmers can do to accommodate certain hardware.


I dunno about "bugs" in early DVI/HDMI hardware, but it makes me wonder if Dish broke compatibility with the original HDCP 1.0 spec (1.1 came out in 6/2004) with their latest software...
-- KEENE


----------



## Ron Barry

Eagles said:


> Ron, any fixes other than the trick modes. I was hoping for some CC fixes as per my response to Dish engineers which you helped me with.


Eagles... I tried CC on my MPEG4 locals and Dicovery and it appeared to be working, but I am not familar with the defaults. I am not familar with all the issues and by no means have alot of CC experience. Hopefully someone that does will pipe in with there experience. There ofcourse is upstream issues that can be localized in nature. I wish I could tell you more but I am just green in this area and don't use it much.

One thing that I see. Sometimes the working comes before the voice and sometimes it comes after but I would figured this would be normal for CC... I did not play with any of the presentations settings so I can't comment on those.


----------



## harsh

wwfmike said:


> One thing that has always annoyed me is during the frame by frame pause feature. It works perfectly going forward but when you go back it jusut jumps backwards a few seconds instead of going frame by frame. Is there a reason for this?


This is a side effect of using a technology called "delta compression". Essentially what happens is that successive video frames are based on relatively small changes to the current frame. In reverse, you cannot reconstruct this progression without large amounts of RAM and processing power where each frame is rendered from the last key frame forward... going backwards.

The alternative is to make every frame a complete snapshot (a la Motion JPEG) and that takes up a whole lot more space.


----------



## James Long

wwfmike said:


> One thing that has always annoyed me is during the frame by frame pause feature. It works perfectly going forward but when you go back it jusut jumps backwards a few seconds instead of going frame by frame. Is there a reason for this?


That likely is an effect of the encoding process. MPEG2 and MPEG4 encoding is a system of full and partial frames. The "I" frames that give a snapshot of the entire screen are separated by many other frames that only give change information. Played forward, your receiver gets an "I" frame, then modifies that "I" frame based on the data in the intermediate frames until another "I" frame arrives. Played backward the receiver doesn't have the information in the right order and has to jump back to the last "I" frame to get a full picture. (With more processing work the receiver can jump back to the last "P" frame ... referencing off of the "I" frame before it. It would need the last "I" and closest "P" to perform this calculation.) The encoding is designed for forward play.


----------



## James Long

bill-e said:


> Groups. Is there any way to maybe edit a title and put a prefix or something on it and get it to sort into a group that way?


At the moment the receiver just groups by title. If you have edited the title of a recording it uses the edited title for the grouping (not the true program title). When in grouped mode the list of grouped shows and single programs (recordings where only one of that title exists) are shown on the main list alphabetically. Opening a group shows you a list of all the programs with that title.


> Second question. Do we have a recommended HD for this? If one got a 1TB disk, would it partition it to 750gb or just not work at all? I'd like to purchase the biggest drive that will work...only once if possible


I suppose someone will have to test that when the feature is released. My guess is that the receiver would attempt to format the full drive and simply not work very well. If the receiver tried a partitioning (throwing away everything over 750gb) they would have to come up with a way of repartitioning once "over 750gb" is working better. Without losing content.

The good news is that you can have multiple drives ... so if you get a 750gb today and in a couple of months the feature supports 1TB you can just connect the drive you want to use and go. If you are archiving that much you'll probably want multiple drives anyways. 



isuzudave said:


> All the programs in a folder have the same name, right? If they all have the same name, it must sort them by some other way than alphabetically. By date recorded would be one way.
> Let's say I have a folder for "Modern Marvels". In that folder I might have episodes recorded six months ago and episodes recorded one hour ago. It would make sense that the "Modern Marvels" folder would have to be placed alphabetically amongst the other folders.
> Is this how the new folder option works?


Yes ... When "grouped" programs are placed in a folder with every program with the same title (after title editing, if you have done that). The master list contains single programs that don't have another program of the same title and the grouped programs of the same title.

Once you go into a group the programs have the normal sort options (date, length, etc).


----------



## Hunter Green

Rob Glasser said:


> I just looked, I seem to have all of my HD channels still. Are you maybe on a limited favorites list?


Looks like my 622 forgot it has a dish pointing at 61.5. No error message, just acting like it never had it. Got an appointment for someone to come out and stare thoughtfully at it and then not fix it, come Wednesday.


----------



## c_caz

James Long said:


> The good news is that you can have multiple drives ... so if you get a 750gb today and in a couple of months the feature supports 1TB you can just connect the drive you want to use and go. If you are archiving that much you'll probably want multiple drives anyways.
> .


James,
How sure are you that you can use multiple drives? I ask as doen't DISH tie or encode the DVR with the serial number of the internal HDD, and I'd at least guess they'd do the same here. This would prevent moving drives from DVR to DVR (which Dish does in some fashion). I assumed the external drives were also tied via "serial" number. I assumed if you activated the feature, you could add one EHDD, then if that drive dies or something, it would cost $40 to activated another. Not true?


----------



## Rob Glasser

MNipper said:


> I've not ever seen this happen before. I had a recording setup to fire at 3:40AM this morning. It should have gone for 1:45, but when I checked it this morning, it indicated that it was only 33 minutes long. When I scrolled backwards, in the PVR window, the recording shows as having been "stopped" at 4:12AM (FYI, my nightly reboot occurs at 3AM).
> 
> All of my AV equipment lives off of a UPS, so this is not a power-related event. It just seems to have decided to stop, all on its own.
> 
> Again... really haven't seen this happen before, and I have no guesses as to any other possible causes.


Does it say why it was stopped? Like STB Reboot? Sounds like your receiver maybe rebooted, but then again if that was the case it should have started the recording again after it rebooted.


----------



## Rob Glasser

c_caz said:


> James,
> I assumed if you activated the feature, you could add one EHDD, then if that drive dies or something, it would cost $40 to activated another. Not true?


The fee is a one time fee for your entire Dish Network account. Once paid you can use the External USB Storage feature on all supported features. It is not per receiver or per hard drive.


----------



## James Long

c_caz said:


> James,
> How sure are you that you can use multiple drives? I ask as doen't DISH tie or encode the DVR with the serial number of the internal HDD, and I'd at least guess they'd do the same here. This would prevent moving drives from DVR to DVR (which Dish does in some fashion). I assumed the external drives were also tied via "serial" number. I assumed if you activated the feature, you could add one EHDD, then if that drive dies or something, it would cost $40 to activated another. Not true?


Not true. The $40 is per account. If you have two 622's both will be able to use external drives. In the initial release you will not be able to move drives between 622s but you will be able to have multiple drives per machine.


----------



## GATER

Just so I'm clear. All of my recordings currently on my 622 will be wiped out to enable the external usb storage?


----------



## Benhath

Don't think so. My 622 detected and formatted an external 150g drive without affecting anything else. The next step is to have the feature enabled on the 15th and then copy recordings from the 622 to the external hard drive.

Ben



GATER said:


> Just so I'm clear. All of my recordings currently on my 622 will be wiped out to enable the external usb storage?


----------



## wje

druckerdave said:


> I got L4.41 yesterday, unlike L4.09 (macroblocking issues) all is good at the moment... a few thoughts come to mind as I read other posts in this thread.
> HDMI is very convenient connection system but the required use of HDCP means that if software AND hardware is not implemented correctly or a poor connection, signal transfer will be disabled by sending device, unfortunately some early DVI and HDMI hardware has "bugs".there may be limits to what E* programmers can do to accommodate certain hardware.


This is exactly correct. E* and D* both have had problems with various combinations of HDMI equipment, as have just about everyone else in the industry. The earlier HDMI specs (pre-1.3) weren't particularly specific in some important areas, such as having a mandatory compliance test. 1.3 compatible devices seem to work well, but the older stuff is hit-or-miss, and it isn't necessarily the fault of the 622. If you want to bet po'd at someone, blame the copyright holders (i.e., studios) who keep coming up with these absurdly complex ways of trying to keep people from stealing their content.

On a totally different subject, the trick-play functionality in 4.41 is actually usable now, and the audio volume shift between SD and HD seems to be much improved. This is a nice release. Of course, I thought 4.09 was good, too. Everything worked better for me in that one.


----------



## MarcusInMD

Still waiting here for 4.41. Hopefully it won't be long.


----------



## archer75

So if an activated ext hard drive is tied to the receiver and that receiver dies and you have to get a new one would you also have to pay the activation fee again for the new receiver?


----------



## RLMesq

ebaltz said:


> Is there such a thing as a LAN port WiFI dongle. I have a wireless network and don't want to run a cable to my TV area. My PS3 connects wirelessly and would like my 622 to as well. Anyway to do this with a dongle or do I need a full blown access point wireless router type thing down by my TV?


I have a Logitech Play Link (<---clicky) for my Xbox 360, and tried it with my 622 for dial-out. It works just fine.

It's a set of two small boxes; one connects to your router, and the other connects to your remote device (computer, game console, DVR, etc.). The boxes are paired to each other, so there's no need for additional security settings.










You can find them for around thirty bucks on Amazon or buy.com, shipping included.

This isn't as fast as a Wi-Fi connection, so it wouldn't be a good choice for large file transfer... but for a simple dial-out, who cares?


----------



## James Long

GATER said:


> Just so I'm clear. All of my recordings currently on my 622 will be wiped out to enable the external usb storage?


Nope. This is additional archive storage ... the programs on the main drive are as safe as they have ever been. Timers and everything else remains in the hard drive (unlike D*'s use of an external SATA drive that _replaces_ the internal drive including timers/etc).

The only issue in relation to the main drive is that when you send content from the main drive to the archive it is moved, not copied. Which means you can't view it unless your USB drive is connected or you move the content back to the main drive.


----------



## P Smith

We got first casualty .
-----------------------------------
After attempt connect Seagate Barracuda 7200.7 160 GB ST3160023AS in EvenTech 3.5" SATA HDD Enclosure to 622 with L4.41 version, we got an error after a couple minutes of formatting about disconnected multimedia device. All other attempts to start again the process failed. 622 never finished the process and didn't reboot as warned at beginning.
The disk was tested on PC a couple hours ago before use in 622 and found no errors.
Now XP reported it as USB disk, no size, no partitions. Worst thing, when turn power switch on the enclosure the disk not spinning up, only once it made short spinning sound but that lasts half second.
-----------------------------------
Did more checks today; used other three SATA disks (same model ST 160 GB, WD 320 GB and Maxtor 250 GB) in the enclosure, all of then working fine, all spin up and WinXP allowed read them.
-----------------------------------
Some glitches could happen in the enclosure's USB-SATA chip, between 622 and the disk. Since Dish use unpublished method of protection ( could be special SATA commands ) then IMO some USB-SATA chips could not support or properly translate them; could be a sequence of commands and some of them not passed correctly to the disk, so it could bring a disk to amok.
I could count a few other possible reasons, but it would be interesting to developers, not customers.


----------



## shortspark

I wonder if I can copy contents from the external hard drive to my pocket dish? It would be no problem if I could not because if I archived something on the external drive that I wanted to take on the road with me with the PD I could always copy it back to the 622 and download it from there as usual. But it would be nice and save me a couple steps if I could go from the external hard drive directly to the pocket dish.

On second thought, that probably won't work since the pocket dish is not on the "account" and would be considered another device even if it is compatible with downloading from the 622. Another reason would be that the contents of the PD can always be played back anywhere, anytime and E* wants to avoid that. I'm just thinking out loud and I guess I answered my own question.


----------



## RLMesq

Rob Glasser said:


> Good catch, yes, there is now a message that tells you what list you'll see if you hit guide again.


Problem is... it only shows the list names assigned by the receiver. It says is _Press GUIDE for Fav#_ (1-4) or _All Chan, All Sub or All HD_.

It doesn't display the names I've assigned to favorite lists. Seems pretty worthless.

_Edit: Of course, if somebody else has a different experience and sees the user-assigned list names, it would appear I have a glitch_


----------



## P Smith

shortspark said:


> I wonder if I can copy contents from the external hard drive to my pocket dish? It would be no problem if I could not because if I archived something on the external drive that I wanted to take on the road with me with the PD I could always copy it back to the 622 and download it from there as usual. But it would be nice and save me a couple steps if I could go from the external hard drive directly to the pocket dish.
> 
> On second thought, that probably won't work since the pocket dish is not on the "account" and would be considered another device even if it is compatible with downloading from the 622. Another reason would be that the contents of the PD can always be played back anywhere, anytime and E* wants to avoid that. I'm just thinking out loud and I guess I answered my own question.


PD files encrypted by 622 using PD's unique key and could be play only on the particular device. 
All recordings on PD disk are copies and no way to decode and pull back to 622 disk.


----------



## Rob Glasser

archer75 said:


> So if an activated ext hard drive is tied to the receiver and that receiver dies and you have to get a new one would you also have to pay the activation fee again for the new receiver?


No, it's a one time fee for the account, however as long as the drive is tied to your receiver you'd lose not only the recordings on your internal drive is you have to get a new receiver but also the ones on your USB drive. I would imagine the first time you hook the USB drive to your new receiver it would re-pair/re-format it to that drive and all old recordings would be lost.


----------



## c_caz

James Long said:


> Not true. The $40 is per account. If you have two 622's both will be able to use external drives. In the initial release you will not be able to move drives between 622s but you will be able to have multiple drives per machine.


Very cool indeed. I have an extra enclosure with a 250G and a 160GB drive for a previous home server build. So that get's me somewhere around 50 extra hours of HD. I guess I'm not in an immediate hurry to get a 750GB drive.

Now that I think of it I have a swappable drive bay that I can employ as well. This is going to be fun!


----------



## druckerdave

ksilfer said:


> I dunno about "bugs" in early DVI/HDMI hardware, but it makes me wonder if Dish broke compatibility with the original HDCP 1.0 spec (1.1 came out in 6/2004) with their latest software...
> -- KEENE


Not sure anything has been broken but they may not have much choice, As HDMI 1.3 is now showing up in new hardware it's possible that the 622 firmware has to comply with this new spec...Its possible that at introduction the 622 had a more relaxed handshake for a smoother roll out.
HDMI/DVI has backward compatibility in the specification however, there are issues with older hardware (chipsets in older TVs) and software (HDCP handshake issues are well known) sadly, most TV makers will not provide firmware updates or replace hardware that is not in complete compliance.
This puts the burden of working around this on makers of STB,DVD and the like as firmware can be easier to upgrade... a good example of this is the PS3 blink issue.... TVs HDMI were found to be out of spec but Sony has had to try to get the majority of user displays to work (not with complete success however) 
The HDCP in my opinion has been the bain of the electronics and software industry...
in the PC world Windows VISTA was rather quite delayed and more then a few features were left as the result of copyright protection.


----------



## thughes114

How do I know if I have the L4.41 update on my ViP622?


----------



## James Long

Hit the menu button twice and look for the "Software Version:" line.


----------



## JSIsabella

OK, 4.41 arrived, so I took a look at the features list at the start of this thread.

Everything appears to work on my unit, so today I hooked up the ethernet port. I ran a cable to the unit and went through the menu to get to the broadband selection. It connected immediately and all is well. 

Now my question. If the 622 is still going to try the phone line first, what is the use of this connection? I really don't want to disconnect the phone line, because caller ID display works well for us. Or did I miss something? And it does seem to be accessing the network and the DSL modem quite a bit. Does anyone know what is being sent out?

And I am still confused as to why I have to pay $40 to enable a USB port so I can put my own hard disk drive on this unit. It seems to be a pitiful way to raise some cash for the company. But because my drive is almost full, I guess I am going to have to pony up.................

I just hate being nickel and dimed to death.


----------



## Tom in TX

JSIsabella said:


> And I am still confused as to why I have to pay $40 to enable a USB port so I can put my own hard disk drive on this unit. It seems to be a pitiful way to raise some cash for the company. But because my drive is almost full, I guess I am going to have to pony up.................
> 
> I just hate being nickel and dimed to death.


You don't _HAVE_ to do anything. It's an option. Just like on a car. You pick the options you are willing to pay for, and forego those that you don't want! If you don't want to be nickel and dimed to death, don't give them your nickels & dimes! 

Tom in TX


----------



## audiomaster

Eagles said:


> Thanks Harsh,
> 
> I have to laugh when discussing this as I can remember as a kid having one black and white TV in the house with 4 VHF channels (ABC, NBC, CBS, & PBS) and a couple of UHF channels. You actually had to get up to change the channels.


Yes, I remember too. A giant cabinet in the corner of the living room full of glowing glass things. Warmed the whole corner, including the cat who liked to sleep on it, but usually got off when it was on because it leaked so much high voltage it made her hair stand on end! And we got Jackie Gleason and Art Carney! and Milton Berle. Then there was the 40ft antenna mast on the roof! And calling the few other neighbors who had TV to see if the latest problem in reception was our tv or the station! We've come a long way baby!


----------



## david803sc

James Long said:


> And anyone providing such information or pointers will be promptly banned:
> "_Discussion about hacking into the content of Personal Video Recorders (PVR's) including digital transfer of undecoded programming from the PVR's hard drive to another medium is prohibited._"​


I wanted to say I agree with this policy I am in no way a hacker and would never try, but I wanted to say a call to tech support not so long ago had a tech rep refer me to a hacking website he runs, I thought that was strange, an employee running a website for hacking DISH network.

David


----------



## dturturro

I was updated to 4.41 and I turned on Groups. Now my remote is incredibly slow (almost unresponsive). Anyone else see this bug?


----------



## James Long

david803sc said:


> I wanted to say I agree with this policy I am in no way a hacker and would never try, but I wanted to say a call to tech support not so long ago had a tech rep refer me to a hacking website he runs, I thought that was strange, an employee running a website for hacking DISH network.


Hopefully that call was being monitored "for quality assurance purposes".


----------



## rtk

Would anyone with 4.41 care to comment about the improvement (if any) in picture quality of the mpeg4 channels with the new update? I tend to see a fair amount of macroblocking on StarzHD (compared to HBO-HD/Sho-HD) during motion scenes. I had always attributed it to overcompression but if this was a decoding issue improved with software that would be fantastic.


----------



## P Smith

Not likely - the BCM7411 are the H.264/AVC decoders. So, all chances it was in stream.


----------



## rtk

I was referring to the "MPEG 4 macro blocking fixes" stated in the release notes.


----------



## FaxMan

RLMesq said:


> Problem is... it only shows the list names assigned by the receiver. It says is _Press GUIDE for Fav#_ (1-4) or _All Chan, All Sub or All HD_.
> 
> It doesn't display the names I've assigned to favorite lists. Seems pretty worthless.
> 
> _Edit: Of course, if somebody else has a different experience and sees the user-assigned list names, it would appear I have a glitch_


I see the same thing and agree it should show the name of the Fav. I also find it a bit distracting as it occasionally pops up as you are scrolling through whatever guide you are currently on.


----------



## EXTACAMO

Now have 4.41. Been playing with it over the weekend.(The new version that is ) Everything seems okay. They didn't break anything on my box so thats a good thing. Hooked it up to my home network. That works. Would like to know when I can ditch the phone connection? And also, what other capabilities will this connection permit? Not sure if I'll spring for the USB drive activation fee. That seems a bit steep. But I guess they have to cover their development costs. I may change my mind once I read some feed back on it after people have been using it for awhile. All and all I'm happy with the product.


----------



## Rob Glasser

dturturro said:


> I was updated to 4.41 and I turned on Groups. Now my remote is incredibly slow (almost unresponsive). Anyone else see this bug?


I haven't seen this but it might be worthwhile for you to do a hard reboot (pull the power cord, and then plug it back in). This runs through a more detailed boot process and I have found if I'm having slowness issues or more problems than normal after a software download this reboot can clear a lot of that up.


----------



## david803sc

the Western Digital My Book drives are all on sale again at Best Buy, 250GB, 500GB and the 750GB, last week the 500GB was on sale for $129.99 now it is $119.00 the 750GB which I got today was $199.00 with my !0% reward zone it cost me $175.00 can't beat that for 750GB's.


----------



## dturturro

Rob Glasser said:


> I haven't seen this but it might be worthwhile for you to do a hard reboot (pull the power cord, and then plug it back in). This runs through a more detailed boot process and I have found if I'm having slowness issues or more problems than normal after a software download this reboot can clear a lot of that up.


Yeah, I tried a power cord reset and even a check switch just for S&Gs and still no luck. I even turned groups off to see if that helped and nada. Am I the only one with this issue so far?


----------



## nicedeboy26

If you are looking for a hard drive, try http://shop2.outpost.com/template/index/

Or keep an eye out on here for specials: http://www.resellerratings.com/


----------



## thughes114

How can I get the L4.41 if I don't have a phone line????


----------



## Jim5506

thughes114 said:


> How can I get the L4.41 if I don't have a phone line????


Updates are pushed down via the satellite feed. Phone line is for reporting PPV movies and monthly check in by DVR.

You can't force a download and you can't stop it either.


----------



## casolorz

I am still stuck at 4.05, how can I force an upgrade?


----------



## MarcusInMD

My parents who just got their 622 about three months ago got 4.41 before me!!! AYE!!! My 622 is over a year older then theirs. Must not be doing it with serial #s that's for sure.


----------



## DBS Commando

MarcusInMD said:


> My parents who just got their 622 about three months ago got 4.41 before me!!! AYE!!! My 622 is over a year older then theirs. Must not be doing it with serial #s that's for sure.


Their 622 could be refurbished which means its much older then what you actually think.


----------



## James Long

casolorz said:


> I am still stuck at 4.05, how can I force an upgrade?


Sorry, updates cannot be forced. E* will eventually target your receiver.


----------



## kstevens

Are updates done based on the settings on preferences or do firmware updates download any time the receiver is in standby?

Thanks,

Ken


----------



## James Long

They come any time that the receiver is in standby (both TV1 and TV2 turned off, if you are in dual mode). That early morning "updates" time forces your receiver into standby, so if you don't turn "off" TV1 and TV2 your receiver will turn itself off (unless you have a recording in progress at that time).

Whether or not your receiver is "on the list" for the update is a separate question. No amount of standby time will force your receiver on to the list. One just has to be patient.


----------



## mscroggi

The release note document specifically states the drive will be formatted and you will lose your data. This makes complete sense. If they didnt do some kind of proprietary formatting, anyone could run off moves and share them all with their friends. I would think that the drive would not be usable with your PC afterwards.



mclarenmerc05 said:


> I hooked up my external hd and it looks like it has to be reformated by dish before it will be able to be used with the 622 rec.!?
> That means that I would lose everything else that is currently on the external hard drive.....*that is not good*!
> Also I guess the best thing is to go and get a new hard drive and dedicate that one just to transfer files from the 622.
> I am also wondering if once I transfer file on the new hd will I be able to access that one with my PC !!!!


----------



## tnsprin

mscroggi said:


> The release note document specifically states the drive will be formatted and you will lose your data. This makes complete sense. If they didnt do some kind of proprietary formatting, anyone could run off moves and share them all with their friends. I would think that the drive would not be usable with your PC afterwards.


Actually the fomatting is not for security. Plenty of software, particularly on Linux, can read the disk afterwards. The security is in the fact that the data is stored, encrypted so that it requires decryption using the unique code stored for your ViP622.


----------



## AVJohnnie

Discovered this one yesterday and I don’t know if it is a problem specific only to L4.41 or not because both of my 622s are now on the new version. On both of my receivers the “Bill Payment” menu item that’s normally in the “DishHOME / Service / Customer Support” screen is no longer there, even though the info ticker at the bottom of that screen refers to it as though it should be. Called DISH and spoke a second level CSR who made a report on it and said that it would be passed along to the software team.


----------



## cwc

Jim5506 said:


> .....
> 
> You can't force a download and you can't stop it either.


Theoretically one could prevent a download by never turning the receiver off, correct?


----------



## Grandude

Found an old bug that is now fixed. It used to be that if you wanted to listen to music in the background and keep track of something else using PIP, the scrolling banner giving the music info would track over the PIP, but now with 441, it goes behind the PIP. Yea!


----------



## James Long

cwc said:


> Theoretically one could prevent a download by never turning the receiver off, correct?


Theoretically. But you would also have to set a timer event for a few minutes after your "update" time (which cannot be disabled on any version the 622 software sent out in the past year).


----------



## yardbird

disregard.... totally in the wrong area.... I shouldn't be doing message boards from work


----------



## Grampa67

dturturro said:


> I was updated to 4.41 and I turned on Groups. Now my remote is incredibly slow (almost unresponsive). Anyone else see this bug?


I turned on cc while watching a recordrd program and my remote became slow. The sound started breaking up and the cc printed garbage. I turned off the cc and back on and appeared to wok ok except the cc would come and go and misspell words, Backing up would bring different results, sometimes working good for awhile.

BTW the program was SD


----------



## dturturro

Grampa67 said:


> I turned on cc while watching a recordrd program and my remote became slow. The sound started breaking up and the cc printed garbage. I turned off the cc and back on and appeared to wok ok except the cc would come and go and misspell words, Backing up would bring different results, sometimes working good for awhile.
> 
> BTW the program was SD


I resolved my issue by reorienting a Terk IR-UHF converter. It must have shifted while I was checking my phone lines. Unplugging the unit completely solved my problem.


----------



## tnsprin

It looks like in adding the group feature in schedule, they removed the history feature, and its sub screens.


----------



## Scott Spillers

I've had L4.41 since the 10th and I am very pleased with this update. It's so nice to have usable trick play modes again. I have had a couple of incidents where when using single frame forward and reverse multiple times it has returned to regular playback or jumped back further than expected, but I have not been able to regularly reproduce either of these issues. This is a big improvement.

Now, if we could just get them to put the HD icon on OTA recordings...


----------



## James Long

tnsprin said:


> It looks like in adding the group feature in schedule, they removed the history feature, and its sub screens.


You can still scroll back timer history on the Daily Schedule but the recorded event history (the one that told you what receiver deleted what recordings when) does seem to be gone.


----------



## c_caz

So just to throw this out there BBC has good deals this week on the Western Digital MyBook Esssential:
500GB $119: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7783552&type=product&id=1142290230595
and for the beast
750GB for $199: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8360793&type=product&id=1177113149365

Yeah I might be heading to BBC at lunch tomorrow or Wednesday...


----------



## diospyros

FWIW:
Plugged in a Maxtor 60GB USB drive _just to test things._ It wasn't recognized as being present by the 622. Tried a 512MB jump drive and that worked fine as a device to transfer pictures to hard drive so USB port is good. The Maxtor does not have an external power cord and is entirely powered by USB. It has a second connector on the USB cable to supply power in cases where the normal USB connector (the one nearer the middle of the cable) cannot draw the necessary power.

Since the 622 only has one USB port, I set up a laptop next to the 622 and plugged the data/power USB connector into the 622 and the auxillary power USB connector into the laptop. (Yeah, not really practical, but this was a test.) The 622 then recognized the USB drive and formatted it OK. So if anyone is having trouble getting a USB drive to work with the 622 it may be a good idea to make sure one is using a drive that has an external power source. I guess the USB port on the 622 just doesn't supply too many extra watts. (Yes, I understand most large USB drives use an external power adapter cable anyway.)


----------



## James Long

Tech Chat says ... the HD should be 40GM to 750GB for external storage.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

Scott Spillers said:


> Now, if we could just get them to put the HD icon on OTA recordings...


When discussed before, I thought this was not a good idea since not all OTA is HD. It might be true that most of what you or I record from OTA is HD... but not all OTA is HD, so labelling it that way might be misleading.

I have several OTA channels that are SD all the time. A couple of others that are HD during primetime, but switch to SD during the off-hours... so those SD recordings would take less space than HD, so having an HD indicator on them would be misleading.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

c_caz said:


> So just to throw this out there BBC has good deals this week on the Western Digital MyBook Esssential:
> 500GB $119: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7783552&type=product&id=1142290230595
> and for the beast
> 750GB for $199: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8360793&type=product&id=1177113149365
> 
> Yeah I might be heading to BBC at lunch tomorrow or Wednesday...


Noticed that myself... Comparing the numbers.. it looked more cost-effective to buy 2 of the 500GB drives, thus having a TB of capacity for just $39 more than the cost of a 750GB unit. Sure you'd have to unplug one then plug in the other... but it seemed like a better deal to me... especially when TB drives are running closer to $400 when I looked, vs $238 for a pair of 500GB ones!


----------



## Rob Glasser

HDMe said:


> When discussed before, I thought this was not a good idea since not all OTA is HD. It might be true that most of what you or I record from OTA is HD... but not all OTA is HD, so labelling it that way might be misleading.
> 
> I have several OTA channels that are SD all the time. A couple of others that are HD during primetime, but switch to SD during the off-hours... so those SD recordings would take less space than HD, so having an HD indicator on them would be misleading.


I'm actually in the other camp. I wish they'd put the HD label on them not because it's necessarily HD content but it lets me know it's taking up 'HD space'. I use that indicator to let me know 2 things 1) Which recordings are higher quality, and 2) Which recordings are taking up more space. Even if that OTA show is SD it's still taking up space like an HD show and it's SD quality it going to be way better than any Dish provided SD channel


----------



## c_caz

HDMe said:


> Noticed that myself... Comparing the numbers.. it looked more cost-effective to buy 2 of the 500GB drives, thus having a TB of capacity for just $39 more than the cost of a 750GB unit. Sure you'd have to unplug one then plug in the other... but it seemed like a better deal to me... especially when TB drives are running closer to $400 when I looked, vs $238 for a pair of 500GB ones!


Yeah I'm not sure which I'll get. I may just get one 500GB drive and be done for a bit, cause this stuff will just drop in price eventually.

Heck 500GB will triple my storage space. $119 + $39 USB fee is $160 for 3 times the HDD space. I think that's worth it.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

Rob Glasser said:


> I'm actually in the other camp. I wish they'd put the HD label on them not because it's necessarily HD content but it lets me know it's taking up 'HD space'. I use that indicator to let me know 2 things 1) Which recordings are higher quality, and 2) Which recordings are taking up more space. Even if that OTA show is SD it's still taking up space like an HD show and it's SD quality it going to be way better than any Dish provided SD channel


I can understand that... which is why I would favor some kind of labelling, just not the HD label. I would like it if we could have an "OTA" watermark similar to the "HD" watermark for the OTA channels. That would be enough to flag the user that it might be taking up more space than an SD channel, and would also be accurate marking.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

c_caz said:


> Yeah I'm not sure which I'll get. I may just get one 500GB drive and be done for a bit, cause this stuff will just drop in price eventually.
> 
> Heck 500GB will triple my storage space. $119 + $39 USB fee is $160 for 3 times the HDD space. I think that's worth it.


Also true. I would most likely buy just one as well... I was just doing the math and thinking that 2 would be better than 1 TB drive that may or may not be compatible right now (for folks that were wanting to try a TB drive), and only slightly more than a 750GB drive.

For the moment, though, 1 500GB drive would make a world of difference and probably be a bit before I needed another.


----------



## BobaBird

HDMe said:


> I would like it if we could have an "OTA" watermark similar to the "HD" watermark for the OTA channels. That would be enough to flag the user that it might be taking up more space than an SD channel, and would also be accurate marking.


This is the solution I've pushed for. It's up to the subscriber to know which OTA recordings are SD or HD. When I read about the timer/tuner icon, I just assumed it would also be on the recordings list (still L405 here). Wonder why they didn't follow through?


----------



## SanDiegoinHD

david803sc said:


> the Western Digital My Book drives are all on sale again at Best Buy, 250GB, 500GB and the 750GB, last week the 500GB was on sale for $129.99 now it is $119.00 the 750GB which I got today was $199.00 with my !0% reward zone it cost me $175.00 can't beat that for 750GB's.


Good call. I saw the WD My Book 750GB for 199.00 in the Best Buy ad as well. As soon as I started looking at this thread, I started price shopping.

Looks like I still have L405 Software. So I certainly am not one of the folks with "early" software updates. I am still not certain as to when I will pull the trigger on this, I have been waiting for this feature for a while now, but am moving in a couple of months. I might just wait. Plus, I don't use the phone line right now. It would be great if you could hook up the broadband and save the 5 bucks that would be nice.

Its about time Dish!


----------



## lujan

I feel sorry for all those people waiting for the latest update so that they can get the additional storage. Here I am with the update and I don't intend on getting any additional storage or paying the $40.00 for the privaledge. I don't ever get close to filling the hard drive because I usually watch them soon after they're recorded.


----------



## David-A

My 622 tuner 2 video is now garbled. This happened immeidately after L4.41 was downloaded last week. Any events that use tuner 2 are not recorded and the reason is logged as "SIGNAL" (problems with the signal). Hard power off/on reboots have not solved this problem. Tuner 1 and OTA is fine. This problem did not exist prior to L4.41. (There is a separate thread on this issue but I wanted to make sure it was mentioned in this L4.41 thread.)


----------



## ebaltz

diospyros said:


> FWIW:
> Plugged in a Maxtor 60GB USB drive _just to test things._ It wasn't recognized as being present by the 622. Tried a 512MB jump drive and that worked fine as a device to transfer pictures to hard drive so USB port is good. The Maxtor does not have an external power cord and is entirely powered by USB. It has a second connector on the USB cable to supply power in cases where the normal USB connector (the one nearer the middle of the cable) cannot draw the necessary power.
> 
> Since the 622 only has one USB port, I set up a laptop next to the 622 and plugged the data/power USB connector into the 622 and the auxillary power USB connector into the laptop. (Yeah, not really practical, but this was a test.) The 622 then recognized the USB drive and formatted it OK. So if anyone is having trouble getting a USB drive to work with the 622 it may be a good idea to make sure one is using a drive that has an external power source. I guess the USB port on the 622 just doesn't supply too many extra watts. (Yes, I understand most large USB drives use an external power adapter cable anyway.)


Actually the 622 has TWO USB ports, one in front and one in back.


----------



## ChuckA

ebaltz said:


> Actually the 622 has TWO USB ports, one in front and one in back.


However, it seems you can only use one at a time. I had an external HDD plugged into the one on the back and wanted to connect my PocketDish. I plugged the PD USB cable in the front and got an error message indicating only one USB device can be used at a time. I had to unplug the USB HDD before it would allow the PD to be used from the front port.


----------



## Rob Glasser

HDMe said:


> I can understand that... which is why I would favor some kind of labelling, just not the HD label. I would like it if we could have an "OTA" watermark similar to the "HD" watermark for the OTA channels. That would be enough to flag the user that it might be taking up more space than an SD channel, and would also be accurate marking.


That would work too, good idea.


----------



## BillJ

One thing 441 hasn't fixed is the black screen of death. Happened again this morning. The last one was July 29. My notes show a BSOD event once or twice a month. My original 622 was replaced in the spring of 2006 due to BSOD problems. Whatever causes it seems immune to equipment replacement or software upgrades.


----------



## ebaltz

ChuckA said:


> However, it seems you can only use one at a time. I had an external HDD plugged into the one on the back and wanted to connect my PocketDish. I plugged the PD USB cable in the front and got an error message indicating only one USB device can be used at a time. I had to unplug the USB HDD before it would allow the PD to be used from the front port.


Yeah that would be kind of dumb wouldn't it, two connections but only one actual port at a time, I guess so if you have something permanently plugged in the back like in a hard to reach cabinet you are just SOL. That is kind of dumb design IMO. Oh well, maybe the 722 is different.


----------



## James Long

ebaltz said:


> Yeah that would be kind of dumb wouldn't it, two connections but only one actual port at a time, I guess so if you have something permanently plugged in the back like in a hard to reach cabinet you are just SOL. That is kind of dumb design IMO. Oh well, maybe the 722 is different.


You do not have to unplug the 2nd device, you just have to power it down so the receiver does not see it (for now). They did say they were working on a way to have multiple USBs at the same time.


----------



## tnsprin

BillJ said:


> One thing 441 hasn't fixed is the black screen of death. Happened again this morning. The last one was July 29. My notes show a BSOD event once or twice a month. My original 622 was replaced in the spring of 2006 due to BSOD problems. Whatever causes it seems immune to equipment replacement or software upgrades.


Contact Dish again. Most current BSOD when just watching have been traced to hardware. I haven't seen one since they replaced mine.


----------



## david803sc

My 2 622's are still on 4.05 I want to call tomorrow morning to activate the external storage but it won't work without the L4.41 so this sucks, they said in the tech forum last night that it will be rolled out as a staggered release, tomorrow is D-Day and still only the first 200 seem to have the update, I bought two drives already hooked up, I emailed the tech forum last night and the ceo address and have had no reply. Here is a copy of my email.

I have 2 622's on my account. I use to always be one of the first to get software updates but recently was asked to do a favor and exchange my receivers so they could be tested by DISH to isolate some tech issues they were having, since the exchange I seem to be the last to get updates.

More importantly I have purchased 2 750GB external drives that I want to call and activate tomorrow on the launch of external storage, however I still have software version L4.05 on both receivers I need L4.41 for the external drives to work, please add my receivers to the list to get the new L4.41 update so I can activate and use the new external storage feature.

Thank you,

David B
803-233-9XXX

*receiver information edited out by admin to protect you.*


----------



## DBS Commando

david803sc said:


> My 2 622's are still on 4.05 I want to call tomorrow morning to activate the external storage but it won't work without the L4.41 so this sucks, they said in the tech forum last night that it will be rolled out as a staggered release, tomorrow is D-Day and still only the first 200 seem to have the update, I bought two drives already hooked up, I emailed the tech forum last night and the ceo address and have had no reply. Here is a copy of my email.
> 
> I have 2 622's on my account. I use to always be one of the first to get software updates but recently was asked to do a favor and exchange my receivers so they could be tested by DISH to isolate some tech issues they were having, since the exchange I seem to be the last to get updates.
> 
> More importantly I have purchased 2 750GB external drives that I want to call and activate tomorrow on the launch of external storage, however I still have software version L4.05 on both receivers I need L4.41 for the external drives to work, please add my receivers to the list to get the new L4.41 update so I can activate and use the new external storage feature.
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> David B
> 803-233-9XXX
> 
> 622 Living Room
> *xxxxxxxxxxx-xx*
> *xxxxxxxxxxx-xx*
> 
> 622 Bedroom
> *xxxxxxxxxxx-xx*
> *xxxxxxxxxxx-xx*


I don't think we're supposed to know these numbers


----------



## BobaBird

How is he to remove the numbers from your full quote?


----------



## DBS Commando

BobaBird said:


> How is he to remove the numbers from your full quote?


Just did it


----------



## Scott Spillers

HDMe said:


> When discussed before, I thought this was not a good idea since not all OTA is HD. It might be true that most of what you or I record from OTA is HD... but not all OTA is HD, so labelling it that way might be misleading.
> 
> I have several OTA channels that are SD all the time. A couple of others that are HD during primetime, but switch to SD during the off-hours... so those SD recordings would take less space than HD, so having an HD indicator on them would be misleading.


The same can be said for some of the HD channels received from Dish. Regardless of whether the programming content is in SD or HD, the digital OTA channels still take more hard drive space to record than the Dish SD channels. The Dish "HD" icon, really only tells you that you are receiving programming from a digital source. It is not indicative of HD programming.

Over the air channels are included in the "All HD" group in the guide because they are digital (ATSC DTV) signals, that like the Dish HD channels, could potentially contain HD content. They should be treated the same way in the recordings list so that we could determine which programs are consuming the majority of our hard disk space.

An indication of a recordings file size would be just swell too.


----------



## Scott Spillers

BobaBird said:


> This is the solution I've pushed for. It's up to the subscriber to know which OTA recordings are SD or HD. When I read about the timer/tuner icon, I just assumed it would also be on the recordings list (still L405 here). Wonder why they didn't follow through?


Don't forget that your OTA recordings take as much disk space as a Dish HD recording, even if they are SD programs. Yes, those black bars on the sides of the SD picture on your OTA channels are being recorded with the rest of the programming.


----------



## placeman

In case you guys are interested, the people over at Slickdeals.net found a decent deal on a 500GB USB 2.0 External HDD. It's through Buy.com. After rebate it comes to $97, shipped. Here's the link to the product discussion:

http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?t=583584


----------



## Jim5506

ChuckA said:


> However, it seems you can only use one at a time. I had an external HDD plugged into the one on the back and wanted to connect my PocketDish. I plugged the PD USB cable in the front and got an error message indicating only one USB device can be used at a time. I had to unplug the USB HDD before it would allow the PD to be used from the front port.


They said last night that only one at a time right now, future updates will fix that.

Also, right now USB hubs don't work.


----------



## MarcusInMD

Finally got it this afternoon. Looks good so far!


----------



## shortspark

MarcusInMD said:


> Finally got it this afternoon. Looks good so far!


This afternoon? I thought these things came out like boogie men, only at night.


----------



## Rob Glasser

shortspark said:


> This afternoon? I thought these things came out like boogie men, only at night.


Typically software is released at night but Dish can release it at any time.


----------



## P Smith

ebaltz said:


> <.> Oh well, maybe the 722 is different.


Kidding ? 622 and 722 have SAME software, but different HDD: 320 vs 500 GB.


----------



## P Smith

Rob Glasser said:


> Typically software is released at night but Dish can release it at any time.


New extended range came at 12am EDT.


----------



## russ9

Rob Glasser said:


> Typically software is released at night but Dish can release it at any time.


I just turned my 622 off, and it started the update process. Cracked open a micro-brew, trying to drink it with my fingers crossed.


----------



## MarcusInMD

It came through either after 8am or this afternoon. I checked at 3:30am and it still had not gotten the update.


----------



## Taco Lover

Here's to mine not updating during prime time tonight.


----------



## P Smith

MarcusInMD said:


> It came through either after 8am or this afternoon. I checked at 3:30am and it still had not gotten the update.


I said EXTENDED range, not for ALL. Started 9am PDT.


----------



## 4bama

lujan said:


> I feel sorry for all those people waiting for the latest update so that they can get the additional storage. Here I am with the update and I don't intend on getting any additional storage or paying the $40.00 for the privaledge. I don't ever get close to filling the hard drive because I usually watch them soon after they're recorded.


Good choice! Same here, and instead of upgrading to the 722, if I ever come close to exausting the 622 storage capacity I'd just add an external HDD. Makes more sense than paying for an upgrade.


----------



## russ9

russ9 said:


> I just turned my 622 off, and it started the update process. Cracked open a micro-brew, trying to drink it with my fingers crossed.


Well, it took a whole beer, but the upgrade got finished. I like the DVR groupings, hey look: closed captioning works; don't have to listen to Jim Cramer on Mad Money scream Boo-Yah.....

all an all a (OTA) gold star.


----------



## Jerry G

lujan said:


> I feel sorry for all those people waiting for the latest update so that they can get the additional storage. Here I am with the update and I don't intend on getting any additional storage or paying the $40.00 for the privaledge. I don't ever get close to filling the hard drive because I usually watch them soon after they're recorded.


I'm confused. Why do you feel sorry for those who do want the extra storage and are willing to pay the charge? Like any other service, some will need it and want it, and other won't. No one is forcing anyone to do anything. Why do you have a problem with that?


----------



## lujan

Jerry G said:


> I'm confused. Why do you feel sorry for those who do want the extra storage and are willing to pay the charge? Like any other service, some will need it and want it, and other won't. No one is forcing anyone to do anything. Why do you have a problem with that?


You don't get it, I feel sorry for those that want it but can't use it because they haven't received the upgrade.


----------



## JayS

I really hate the new "feature" that flashes the time to "Press Guide for All Channels".

Thank you, but I clearly already know that since I was smart enough to go in and setup a favorites list. I just want my clock showing, not some stupid flashing message telling me something I already know.


----------



## Boson

*HISTORY?*

Did we lose the 'history' function with 4.41? I do not see any mention of this when searching this thread....

I keep my 622 quite full and would often get lazy or screw up and cause the auto-delete of shows by recording too much. The first thing I do when I get home each day is check to see what may have been deleted (and, of course, download the show by other means if I really wanted to watch it...)


----------



## Volitar Prime

My 622 updated sometime in the middle of the night to 4.41 so they must have expanded the range again.

Now my question is, what is the best/correct number to call to activate the HD? The pop-up screen says to call 1-888-241-2205 but the screen saver says to call 1-800-333-3473.


----------



## CoachGibbs

I got the update last night. I was hoping it was fix the problem I have with DishHome(Doesn't work), but it didn't. Guess I'll have to get a different 622.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

I am trying to replicate a problem I had last night after getting L4.41, so if anyone else is brave here's what happened...

I was watching a recorded program from earlier in the day and I brought up PIP to see what was playing on another channel at that moment. I saw something I wanted to watch, so I cancelled PIP, paused the DVR, and hit Swap on the remote to go to that channel.

As I was trying to watch the tuner I had swapped to (OTA tuner in case it matters), my receiver locked up and did a self-reboot. No problems after that.

If I can reproduce it again today I'll post more.. in the meantime I thought I'd mention it in case anyone else wants to try!


----------



## MikeHou

elbodude said:


> Has anybody tried a USB network dongle? Or is ethernet only available through the ethernet port?


Bumping this since I didn't find an answer. Guess I'll just try it myself if nobody has experience.


----------



## ChuckA

There were responses about this and there is a thread going on about it. USB network adapters do not work. I tried one and it says unsupported USB device.

Read the thread here.


----------



## Leprechuan

Finally!

I got L4.41 last night.
I did notice that now I can't pay my bill via Dish Home.
That's why I have automatically deducted from my checking account.


----------



## tnsprin

MikeHou said:


> Bumping this since I didn't find an answer. Guess I'll just try it myself if nobody has experience.


Ethernet or HomePlug only at this point. They mentioned on the Tech Chat that they were looking at enabling a usb connector for networking.


----------



## dbconsultant

We got 4.41 yesterday. Trick play has been vastly improved - and just in time for little league world series and football - hurray!!!!!:icon_da:


----------



## david803sc

Ok I got L4.41 on both my 622's last night at 3am, I had done a factory reset on both my receivers, and went to rebuild my favorites lists, the problem was, when adding new channels to the list they would not stick after saving the settings and going back to the guide also new channels which I did not select would show up on the favorites list, I had to go back over it numerous times to get them to stick, I never had this problem before, L4.41 it was reproducible on both my 622'2.

David


----------



## erh1117

Maybe it is me but...

I have several movies saved on the 622. If I edit the title of the movies from the original title to "Movie -- Name of Movie," shouldn't they all be grouped in a folder called "Movie?" I tried this and they are not grouped. I also tried to edit the title of the movies from the original title to "Movie Name of Movie." Same result.

Am I wrong that they should group? Do I need to do something different?


----------



## JoshNelson

Volitar Prime said:


> ...Now my question is, what is the best/correct number to call to activate the HD? The pop-up screen says to call 1-888-241-2205 but the screen saver says to call 1-800-333-3473.


I called the 888-241-2205 this morning and pressed 0 as I didn't have my account number memorized and they picked up right away. I had to pay with credit card on the spot - they wouldn't add it to my bill. It activated within seconds. I already copied some recordings over. Some were from OTA channels - others were from premium channels. I tried connecting the drive back to my computer and of course Windows XP says it is an "unknown partition" and it doesn't list the file system. But it does say it is 100% free even though I know my files are on there that I copied over.

I am kinda hoping they make the OTA recordings available away from my vip 622 as these shouldn't need to have DRM.

Josh


----------



## Mark Lamutt

erh1117 said:


> Maybe it is me but...
> 
> I have several movies saved on the 622. If I edit the title of the movies from the original title to "Movie -- Name of Movie," shouldn't they all be grouped in a folder called "Movie?" I tried this and they are not grouped. I also tried to edit the title of the movies from the original title to "Movie Name of Movie." Same result.
> 
> Am I wrong that they should group? Do I need to do something different?


Group by title will only group recordings together that have exactly the same title.


----------



## aginzu

I called the 888-241-2205 number, gave them my phone number, and the external drive was activated. They said that the $39.95 "processing fee" would show up on my next bill.

Yipee!


----------



## Bogey62

erh1117 said:


> Maybe it is me but...
> 
> I have several movies saved on the 622. If I edit the title of the movies from the original title to "Movie -- Name of Movie," shouldn't they all be grouped in a folder called "Movie?" I tried this and they are not grouped. I also tried to edit the title of the movies from the original title to "Movie Name of Movie." Same result.
> 
> Am I wrong that they should group? Do I need to do something different?


They need to be the EXACT same name, i.e., Jeopardy!, Wheel of Fortune, Masters of Science Fiction. etc. Naming them: Movie - Jaws, Movie - Ali G in da house, etc. is not the same thing. You could name them all Movie, but that would be kind of silly.


----------



## Taco Lover

Haven't had much time to play with 441 yet, but I've found the new signal meter is horrible! (I never got 406/409.) Of course, Sat 129 TP 27 gives me a SS of 16, in the yellow. And I think it's that TP that give me a yellow box on the System Info screen. Ugh. Most people can identify with a 1-100 scale, at least make it proportionate to that.


----------



## P Smith

Spooling for all receivers 622 and 722 from midnight PDT.


----------



## cornflakes

Bogey62 said:


> They need to be the EXACT same name, i.e., Jeopardy!, Wheel of Fortune, Masters of Science Fiction. etc. Naming them: Movie - Jaws, Movie - Ali G in da house, etc. is not the same thing. You could name them all Movie, but that would be kind of silly.


It's also case sensitive, as in:

Just For Laughs

is not the same as

Just for Laughs

and episodes will show up in two different groups (same show on the same channel, except some weeks they capitalized the F in For, and some weeks they didn't).


----------



## aginzu

I attached an AcomData 500gb USB drive to the rear USB port on my 622. 

First I got a message saying that I had attached an unsupported device. When I clicked O.K. it said that the device needed to be formatted. Formatting appeard to proceed normally and took about 3 minutes after which the receiver rebooted itself. When it started up again it said that I had too many USB devices attached, but when I went to the "manage USB devices" menu, the drive showed up with 467GB free. I then selected about 40GB of programming to transfer and got a message saying the transfer would take 2 hours, 41 minutes. About 20 minutes later I went to check on the progress and found the receiver hung on downloading a program guide update. I did a hard reboot (power disconnect) and the receiver hung saying that I had an unsupported USB device attached. When I clicked O.K. it hung again at the acquiring satellite signal 0 of 5 stage.

It appears that not all external disk drives will work. Has anyone else tried this drive?


----------



## odbrv

The second time I tried to manage the device I got a message saying I was trying to view a device formated for another receiver. It then erase my stored program and reformated the drive. I am now afraid to send any more shows to the Seagate Freeagent 500gb. Anyone else have this problem??


----------



## Skates

JayS said:


> I really hate the new "feature" that flashes the time to "Press Guide for All Channels".
> 
> Thank you, but I clearly already know that since I was smart enough to go in and setup a favorites list. I just want my clock showing, not some stupid flashing message telling me something I already know.


Agreed - very annoying...especially since when you go to "All Channels" it then prompts you to ""Press GUIDE for All Sub", when you get to "All Sub" it prompts you to "Press GUIDE for ALL HD" and...

...you get the idea...:nono:

They made the same change on the 211


----------



## mwsmith2

+1 from me. That's one of the first things I noticed too. blinking/flashing = very annoying. But then, I suppose it's annoying because I already know that, but it keeps blinking away at me. Ah well.


----------



## harsh

P Smith said:


> Spooling for all receivers 622 and 722 from midnight PDT.


Which explains why I couldn't force a download at 8:19pm PDT last night.


----------



## Boson

James Long said:


> Not true. The $40 is per account. If you have two 622's both will be able to use external drives. In the initial release you will not be able to move drives between 622s but you will be able to have multiple drives per machine.


What you say does make sense, BUT... I just got off the phone and is was told I would have to pay the $40 for each receiver. I pushed and elevated and a second rep. confirmed it. I still think you are correct, but I cannot get DISH to corroborate your story.

I should point out the scenario I presented. I asked if I paid the $40 now for my 622 and some time in the near future I upgraded to the 722, would I have to pay the $40 again to activate it - and they said absolutely YES. This would be in addition to the $149 upgrade charge.


----------



## kmcnamara

mwsmith2 said:


> +1 from me. That's one of the first things I noticed too. blinking/flashing = very annoying. But then, I suppose it's annoying because I already know that, but it keeps blinking away at me. Ah well.


They should've put this as a tip in the new screen saver. Why anyone at Dish thought having the blinking going on in the guide would be a good thing is beyond me. I'm certain they get a lot of calls asking how to rotate through the favorites, but come on. There has to be a better way than the way they implemented it.


----------



## wje

david803sc said:


> Ok I got L4.41 on both my 622's last night at 3am, I had done a factory reset on both my receivers, and went to rebuild my favorites lists, the problem was, when adding new channels to the list they would not stick after saving the settings and going back to the guide also new channels which I did not select would show up on the favorites list, I had to go back over it numerous times to get them to stick, I never had this problem before, L4.41 it was reproducible on both my 622'2.
> 
> David


I have this problem also. I basically can't edit my favorites lists any more... selections don't stick, random things I didn't select show up in the list, etc. It's unusable now. This REALLY sucks.


----------



## Scott Spillers

JayS said:


> I really hate the new "feature" that flashes the time to "Press Guide for All Channels".
> 
> Thank you, but I clearly already know that since I was smart enough to go in and setup a favorites list. I just want my clock showing, not some stupid flashing message telling me something I already know.


Here here! It drives me nuts too.


----------



## P Smith

Scott Spillers said:


> Here here! It drives me nuts too.


I see ... Is that gas mask give you a little relief ?


----------



## EVAC41

I see they fixed the Closed Caption. You can now use your TV closed caption instead of the Recievers Closed Caption. I like the TV's better then the Recievers...


----------



## aginzu

I replaced the AcomData drive with a 500gb Maxtor and now things seem to be working, although there were some startup problems.

When I first attached the drive it acted just like the Acom with the "unsupported device" message, and wasn't recognized. I then did a soft reboot while the Maxtor was attached and it came up saying that I had a USB drive attached that needed formatting. After the formatting was finished, the 622 restarted, but hung at the 0 of 5 phase of the acquiring satellites screen. I had to unplug the drive, do another soft reboot, then plug in the drive to get it to work. It seemed that it would not boot while the drive was attached.

Once it did reboot, I plugged in the drive and everything seemed to work normally. I transferred a 6 GB program in about 28 minutes. I am now trying a bigger transfer of about 23GB.

One nice feature is that you can play programs directly from the attached drive and do not need to transfer them back to the internal drive for viewing. Also, when you transfer a program from the internal disk to the USB drive it is automatically deleted from the internal disk. I don't know if it's possible to copy a program to the USB drive and still keep it on the internal disk.

I'm still concerned about the booting issue since the 622 reboots itself periodically, like when it gets a software update. If it can't reboot on it's own with the USB drive attached, it may miss timers until I can get to it and detach the drive. Otherwise I will have to make sure that the USB drive is not attached when the 622 is unattended. I'll try the reboot with the drive plugged in again once there is some data on the drive to see if it is still a problem.

Has anyone else run into these issues?


----------



## Bagman

aginzu said:


> I replaced the AcomData drive with a 500gb Maxtor and now things seem to be working, although there were some startup problems.
> 
> When I first attached the drive it acted just like the Acom with the "unsupported device" message, and wasn't recognized. I then did a soft reboot while the Maxtor was attached and it came up saying that I had a USB drive attached that needed formatting. After the formatting was finished, the 622 restarted, but hung at the 0 of 5 phase of the acquiring satellites screen. I had to unplug the drive, do another soft reboot, then plug in the drive to get it to work. It seemed that it would not boot while the drive was attached.
> 
> Once it did reboot, I plugged in the drive and everything seemed to work normally. I transferred a 6 GB program in about 28 minutes. I am now trying a bigger transfer of about 23GB.
> 
> One nice feature is that you can play programs directly from the attached drive and do not need to transfer them back to the internal drive for viewing. Also, when you transfer a program from the internal disk to the USB drive it is automatically deleted from the internal disk. I don't know if it's possible to copy a program to the USB drive and still keep it on the internal disk.
> 
> I'm still concerned about the booting issue since the 622 reboots itself periodically, like when it gets a software update. If it can't reboot on it's own with the USB drive attached, it may miss timers until I can get to it and detach the drive. Otherwise I will have to make sure that the USB drive is not attached when the 622 is unattended. I'll try the reboot with the drive plugged in again once there is some data on the drive to see if it is still a problem.
> 
> Has anyone else run into these issues?


I purchased and tried the ACOMDATA drive from Fry's. I got the "unsupported" drive message. I read some where that it was a "hybrid" drive, but I don't know what that means. I replaced it with a Western Digital 500gig MyBook (on sale at BB). I had to re-format it to NTFS to get the 622 to re-format it. No problems since. I've transferred several gig to it with no problems.


----------



## bbomar

Seems to work fine with a Western Digital 500GB ELEMENTS drive:

http://www.mwave.com/mwave/viewspec.hmx?scriteria=4376707&RSKU4376707

Attaching the drive to the USB port brought up the activation screen (no mention of formatting at this point). Called the number on the screen, gave a credit card number for the $39.99, and a couple of minutes later I would get the format message instead of the activation message. Allowed the drive to format for maybe 5 minutes and the receiver rebooted. Interesting that at this point when I went to send-to-external drive I got the activation message again so I went to the manage-drive button, saw a blank directory showing the free disk space, went back to send-to-drive and the activation message was gone. I selected 10 hours of HD programs and started the transfer which took 2 hours in the background. At that point I could play the programs back from the external drive and space was freed up on the internal drive.


----------



## GravelChan

EVAC41 said:


> I see they fixed the Closed Caption. You can now use your TV closed caption instead of the Recievers Closed Caption. I like the TV's better then the Recievers...


How do you accomplish this? Closed captioning on my TV does nothing with a Dish network signal. It does work with OTA signals. To get captioning I need to turn it on with the 622

Try these settings for captioning on your 622, you may like them, you can always reset to default if you don't like them.

I am having problems with Captioning staying on. They will just quit showing, the only way I can get them to working is to reboot. Anyone have an workaround without rebooting?

Caption - on
Font - Proportional w/o serifs
Size Standard
Colors - leave all as: Provider
Edge style - Raised
Service - 1
Background - Translucent
Foreground - Solid


----------



## mwsmith2

Bagman said:


> I purchased and tried the ACOMDATA drive from Fry's. I got the "unsupported" drive message. I read some where that it was a "hybrid" drive, but I don't know what that means.


No idea here either....wikipedia to the rescue!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_drive

I've got the same drive, looks like I may be taking it back to avoid the issues. I'm having to do some funky power-switch routines to get it to recognize. Feh with this new technology! :grin:


----------



## P Smith

Just do soft reboot ( press for few seconds power button ) and it will works.


----------



## david803sc

wje said:


> I have this problem also. I basically can't edit my favorites lists any more... selections don't stick, random things I didn't select show up in the list, etc. It's unusable now. This REALLY sucks.


How do we submit this as a bug that needs to be addresses? anyone know?


----------



## wje

Hopefully, the correct people are monitoring this list. 
One thing you can try is a hard reset - unplug the power, wait a few secs, plug it back in. This seems to have helped for me, although I'm reluctant to try too many experiments, given what a pain it was to get my favorites fixed.


----------



## RocketNJ

HDMe said:


> Also true. I would most likely buy just one as well... I was just doing the math and thinking that 2 would be better than 1 TB drive that may or may not be compatible right now (for folks that were wanting to try a TB drive), and only slightly more than a 750GB drive.
> 
> For the moment, though, 1 500GB drive would make a world of difference and probably be a bit before I needed another.


I would think two drives would make sense vs one drive for the simple reason if one of the drives dies then you only lose half the recordings.


----------



## Horsepower

Well, I was waiting for 441 and it downloaded yesterday. When I turned on my receiver it was stuck at acquiring satellite signal and I had to call <gulp> tech support. The tech told me to "check switch" and in the middle I got hung up on. I got this message that said input your dish type and zipcode, so I tried, but there was no dish 1000 selection. I selected dish 500 and zipcode, called back tech support and they said if it is getting 9901 it's ok, BUT when I run system information satellite 129 comes up red, but I get the 129 stations. Any guidance would be appreciated, as I remain confused. Thanks.

P.S. forgive me for not updating my signature yet


----------



## c_caz

RocketNJ said:


> I would think two drives would make sense vs one drive for the simple reason if one of the drives dies then you only lose half the recordings.


Yeah the two 500s probably make more sense, but my swing through BBC showed the 500s all sold out. I said to hell with it and bought a 750 MyBook for $199 + 10 gift card. Hooked it up and have transfered about 150GB off of my internal drive. All seems to work well.


----------



## Slordak

OK, now that I finally have this software version...

Absolutely agree with what has been said above about the "Press GUIDE for Favorites 2" blurb which appears in place of the time and date. That ought to be a user option; if I'm an expert user, I already know that I can do that and I certainly don't want the message constantly showing up there. It's very irritating and not useful for anyone who has used the receiver more than a few times.

Other thing I've been seeing is a lot of stuttering when watching HD channels, i.e. periods where the signal strength is fine but the audio hiccups for a split second and sort of repeats itself. I may try a power cord reset to see if that helps at all, but if not, that's not good.


----------



## Wake Jitsu

Got 441 yesterday. Used to have some audio stuttering issues and they seemed to be fixed with 405 which I was on until yesterday. 

Last night watching some items off my list there were a couple of stutters. I think they were on SD recordings. I hope it doesn't get worse.

Besides that - love the grouping option; annoyed by the guide flashing message; not intending to hook a USB; undecided about ethernet connection.


----------



## Rob Glasser

Wake Jitsu said:


> Got 441 yesterday. Used to have some audio stuttering issues and they seemed to be fixed with 405 which I was on until yesterday.
> 
> Last night watching some items off my list there were a couple of stutters. I think they were on SD recordings. I hope it doesn't get worse.
> 
> Besides that - love the grouping option; annoyed by the guide flashing message; not intending to hook a USB; undecided about ethernet connection.


I haven't heard much about audio stuttering issues with this release. You might want to try a power cord reboot to reset everything and see if the issue goes away.


----------



## FaxMan

RocketNJ said:


> I would think two drives would make sense vs one drive for the simple reason if one of the drives dies then you only lose half the recordings.


But of course you then have twice the probability of a failure :sure:


----------



## Stewart Vernon

FaxMan said:


> But of course you then have twice the probability of a failure :sure:


Numbers are a funny thing... You're absolutely right, double the chance of a failure BUT at the same time half the chance of a complete failure 

By the way... you have done the impossible... and made me less scared of dbconsultant's avatar!


----------



## GravelChan

Rob Glasser said:


> I haven't heard much about audio stuttering issues with this release. You might want to try a power cord reboot to reset everything and see if the issue goes away.


I have had a little of this since 4.41. I have had my 622 since April of 06 and have never noticed this before.

My wife first noticed it on a couple of soaps that were recorded (locals), then I noticed it on a recorded program from RFD-TV. Right now it is doing it on my local CBS channel.

What it does is every minute..... 5 minutes.... it varies..... the audio and video will stop for just a very brief time (fraction of a second). You don't really loose any information but it is noticeable.

My 622 has been power button and power cord pulled rebooted more than once in the last few days for the lost CC problem. I run in dual mode and I loose captioning for TV1, both HDMI and ch 60 on the RF feed. TV2 ch62 still has captioning.

Chan


----------



## FaxMan

> By the way... you have done the impossible... and made me less scared of dbconsultant's avatar!


HDMe--- Glad you like it!
Some time back, it seemed like Mark and a bunch of people had cat avatars so I figured I'd show mine.:lol: 
Sorry folks...:backtotop


----------



## dbconsultant

HDMe said:


> Numbers are a funny thing... You're absolutely right, double the chance of a failure BUT at the same time half the chance of a complete failure
> 
> By the way... you have done the impossible... and made me less scared of dbconsultant's avatar!


Yeah, now that's scary!:lol:

And if you look at what he's doing a different way, it could double the chances of complete success! But maybe I'm just a 'glass is half full' kinda gal!


----------



## retexan599

GravelChan said:


> How do you accomplish this? Closed captioning on my TV does nothing with a Dish network signal. It does work with OTA signals. To get captioning I need to turn it on with the 622
> 
> Try these settings for captioning on your 622, you may like them, you can always reset to default if you don't like them.
> 
> I am having problems with Captioning staying on. They will just quit showing, the only way I can get them to working is to reboot. Anyone have an workaround without rebooting?


I am having same problem with Captioning just stopping for no apparent reason. I have been front panel rebooting at least daily to get it back; quite annoying.


----------



## bhodgins

I too am having problems with Captioning. I have to reboot every day to restore captioning on TV1. If I leave TV2 turned off, the captions are fine. But as soon as I use TV2, captioning on TV1 will go away within minutes or hours.


----------



## Hunter Green

My suddenly vanishing VOOM channels problem turned out to be an easy fix, so I have all my missing channels back and all the new ones too. Woot! And it had nothing to do with the software or the receiver. A wire got cut somehow.

My 750GB drive is on the way, too. Can't wait.


----------



## robo45h

I just discovered yesterday that my system had upgraded to L4.41 -- which I didn't even know existed. But the different screen saver tipped me off that something was up. 

Anyway, later that evening, while "skipping back" through a program that I was watching -- that was being recorded -- I lost sound. I couldn't do anything to get sound back. Then I tried changing to other channels via the guide. No sound. Then I tried switching to a program that was being recorded on the other tuner -- voila, sound! But the other channels remained mute.

I didn't get to the point of unplugging the unit to do a hard reset. It was late, and I just went to bed. I presume the unit shut down for downloads / reset in the middle of the night.

Tonight, a first pass inspection seems fine -- my sound is back on all channels. 

Since no-one else has mentioned this, I'm guessing it's not a common problem and hope not to see it again.


----------



## dgilley

dbconsultant said:


> Yeah, now that's scary!:lol:
> 
> And if you look at what he's doing a different way, it could double the chances of complete success! But maybe I'm just a 'glass is half full' kinda gal!


Yay! An opportunity to use math. haha

Let's call the probability of a drive failing F. The probability of it not failing is 1-F (because the chance of it failing + the chance of it not failing = 100% or 1).

So the probability of both drives working is obtained by multiplying the probability of each drive working together. (1-F)*(1-F)=(1-F)^2

And the probability of both drives failing is obtained by multiplying the probability of each drive failing together. F*F = F^2

As an example, let's say the the chance of each drive individually working after five years is 95% (0.95). Then the chance of them both working is 0.95^2=0.9025. And the chance of them both failing is 0.05^2 = 0.0025.

The chance of one (either) of the two of them failing is 0.05 + 0.05 = 0.10.

So the chance of one of them failing, as another author wrote, is twice the chance of a single drive failing.

But the chance of "complete success" (both drives working) is not doubled by having two drives. It actually goes down. Using the numbers above, the chance of one drive working is (1-F) = 0.95 and the chance of two drives working is (1-F)^2 = 0.9025.

I think I got my statistics correct! I'm sure there is some official mathematician out there that will correct me if I didn't!

-Dan


----------



## dbconsultant

dgilley said:


> Yay! An opportunity to use math. haha
> 
> Let's call the probability of a drive failing F. The probability of it not failing is 1-F (because the chance of it failing + the chance of it not failing = 100% or 1).
> 
> So the probability of both drives working is obtained by multiplying the probability of each drive working together. (1-F)*(1-F)=(1-F)^2. . . etc. and what he said
> -Dan


There is a thread called 'You know you're a geek when . . .":

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=94510&highlight=you+know+you're+a+geek

I knew I qualified (and posted to it to prove it) - you need to add calculating this situation as proof of your geekiness! Geeks rule!!!!:icon_bb:


----------



## dbconsultant

Hunter Green said:


> My suddenly vanishing VOOM channels problem turned out to be an easy fix, so I have all my missing channels back and all the new ones too. Woot! And it had nothing to do with the software or the receiver. A wire got cut somehow.
> 
> My 750GB drive is on the way, too. Can't wait.


Somebody cut your Voom wire?:lol:


----------



## MarcusInMD

Man,
What a great receiver. The folders complete it. I have been waiting to get folders back since I left SageTV with c-band.


----------



## dgilley

dbconsultant said:


> There is a thread called 'You know you're a geek when . . .":
> 
> I knew I qualified (and posted to it to prove it) - you need to add calculating this situation as proof of your geekiness! Geeks rule!!!!:icon_bb:


I agree! Geeks rule! Thank you for certifying my geekiness.

p.s. - Geeky women are extra awesome since they are too rare.


----------



## gregc5985

I hooked a Thermaltake Max 4 USB 2.0 external enclosure with a Seagate 400GB 7200rpm SATA drive installed to my 622 today. Overall it seems to work OK but I've also tripped across a couple of problems.

The first problem is that the 622 doesn't seem to like having the USB drive connected and turned on when it does a hard reboot. I think I'm getting a hang somewhere but I need to nail the symptoms down further.

The second problem happens when I am playing back a program off the USB drive. If I hit the 30 second skip forward button on the remote several times fast enough it will freeze the playback. I can cycle the power button on the remote to unfreeze it but now it declares that my USB drive is an unsupported device. I have to power cable hard-boot with the USB drive turned off to get it back where it will recognize the USB drive when powered on.

Can anyone confirm these problems or does it just not like my USB drive?

Thanks.


----------



## yovinman

I'm having a LOT of problems using a Seagate Free Agent Pro - 750GB drive with my 622. After successfully transferring some recordings from the 622 to the Seagate, the 622 now refuses do any further transfers. I get an "Error 855" - "An error occurred while transferring events to your USB Storage Device." I did a soft reset, after which I was able to transfer recordings again, but again, just once. Now I get the "Error 855" again, and can't do any more transfers. Any one else run into this? Any suggestions on what to do or what may be going on? This is not going to work if the Seagate drive won't play nice with the 622. Thanks in advance for any help.


----------



## ebaltz

ANd now you know why Dish is charging $40 to turn on this feature. Just think of all the man hours it is going to take to field all these tech calls.


----------



## P Smith

ebaltz said:


> ANd now you know why Dish is charging $40 to turn on this feature. Just think of all the man hours it is going to take to field all these tech calls.


I don't think we will see anyone in our fields. It's job for IT huge team, not just installers.


----------



## knealy

cornflakes said:


> It's also case sensitive, as in:
> 
> Just For Laughs
> 
> is not the same as
> 
> Just for Laughs
> 
> and episodes will show up in two different groups (same show on the same channel, except some weeks they capitalized the F in For, and some weeks they didn't).


Anyone know how to get upper case letters when changing the name of a recorded program? How about changing the name before it's recorded?


----------



## Stewart Vernon

dgilley said:


> As an example, let's say the the chance of each drive individually working after five years is 95% (0.95). Then the chance of them both working is 0.95^2=0.9025. And the chance of them both failing is 0.05^2 = 0.0025.
> 
> The chance of one (either) of the two of them failing is 0.05 + 0.05 = 0.10.
> 
> So the chance of one of them failing, as another author wrote, is twice the chance of a single drive failing.
> 
> But the chance of "complete success" (both drives working) is not doubled by having two drives. It actually goes down. Using the numbers above, the chance of one drive working is (1-F) = 0.95 and the chance of two drives working is (1-F)^2 = 0.9025.


I didn't actually do the math, but I knew chance of failure of one drive doubled because each one individually had the same chance of failure and now you have 2 shots at it.

Where I was wrong was in saying the chance of complete failure halved. It actually drops much lower than that. Having 2 drives, as your math indicates drops much more than half the chance of a complete failure.

If I'd done the math I could have been correct the first time.


----------



## Bogey62

I've noticed that my audio is sometimes going out of sync on TV1 and TV2. I tried the hard reset and it made no difference.

Also, they didn't touch the Pause/Frame advance/FF/REW issues -- mine still behaves badly.


----------



## tnsprin

FaxMan said:


> But of course you then have twice the probability of a failure :sure:


Depends how they are used. Some units stripe across both drives, in which case you lose everything if one drive dies.


----------



## kbdrand

yardbird said:


> #1 External hard drive will be formatted using a proprietary format. You can then ONLY use it for your 622
> 
> #2 DO NOT CALL before the 15th to activate the external USB hard drive feature. They won't know what you're talking about.
> 
> #3 right now there's just one activation fee. HOWEVER, in the initial rollout the external drive will be tied to a specific RECEIVER.... not the ACCOUNT as was previously mentioned. This is expected to change but currently if you transfer a movie to the external on 622 #1 and then try to hook it up to 622 #2 it "may result in loss of data"


I sure hope they change this soon. One of the compelling reasons for me to hook up a USB drive to my 622 is so I can backup and transfer my recording if I change receivers (i.e. upgrade to a 722 or if my 622 dies *I'm on my third 622*, etc).

Right now the USB drive is really on useful for people that keep a large backlog of recording (which I do not. I typically watch and then delete).


----------



## Horsepower

Overnight fixed my dilemma, I think I surprised it in the middle of the update at 8PM PST?


----------



## ChuckA

They already said you can do this. The EHD can be changed to a different receiver up to three times before you will have to reformat it. It might not be a supported option right now, but on the Tech Chat they explained it does work that way. In the future the swap will be unlimited for receivers on your account.


----------



## P Smith

ChuckA said:


> They already said you can do this. The EHD can be changed to a different receiver up to three times before you will have to reformat it. It might not be a supported option right now, but on the Tech Chat they explained it does work that way. In the future the swap will be unlimited for receivers on your account.


We all did read/listen to that.

Now, please, read what ppl reported when they REALLY swap ESD between 622s.


----------



## ClarkBar

Skates said:


> Agreed - very annoying...especially since when you go to "All Channels" it then prompts you to ""Press GUIDE for All Sub", when you get to "All Sub" it prompts you to "Press GUIDE for ALL HD" and...


Very distracting indeed. But don't bother to call and complain. A reliable high-level source indicated to me there there will be a place in Preferences where you can turn OFF the Guide Nag. Possibly as early as in a mid-October release. Oct. Nov. Dec., whenever.

At least they know it is bugging people. But there are scores of normal users who are clueless, and E* fields a lot of calls from people who think their FAVs have gone away when they are in All HD or All SUB, for example. So, we pay the price for those who cannot read a manual, or follow a Help screen, or never watch the Dish Info channel. The Guide info is also one of the entries on the new Screen Saver.


----------



## BobMinn

Perhaps this has been mentioned already, but several users have been having trouble with some of the functions on their ext. Seagate drives. After the drive goes to sleep, or some other event, there is a loss of proper trick play, the ability to delete material, the stop function doesn't work, etc. Rebooting temporarily brings back proper functions.

See the thread about this.

I hope there is a software fix.

BobMinn


----------



## darkstarchuck

So I have this authorization problem, as described in release notes for L4.42, and another interesting, probably *self inflicted*, issue. While transferring pictures from a thumb drive (I had to unplug the EHD), I had an event set to record to the EHD. The timer started, ie., changed channels, and no red record light (as expected.) I paused the show, finished the transfer, and unplugged/plugged in the EHD. Everything looked as expected (access to EHD), then I tried to record by pressing record and got a message about conflict and would I like to cancel current recording. The screen had a non-existent list as if I was supposed to pick one to stop, and the prompts were yes, cancel, no. choosing yes did'nt help, I was unable to record. I checked DVR, my recordings, and there were no active recordings.

I set up some other recordings direct to EXT (this choice means EHD, right?) and will see if this works when I get home today. I'm real happy with the latest improvements No real cause for concern yet....


----------



## n0qcu

darkstarchuck said:


> I set up some other recordings direct to EXT (this choice means EHD, right?) and will see if this works when I get home today. I'm real happy with the latest improvements No real cause for concern yet....


No, EXT means the pocketdish.
At this time (may or may not change) you CANNOT record directly the the external drive. You must record to the DVR and then transfer the recording later.


----------



## MNipper

Re: Thread started at #160



Rob Glasser said:


> Does it say why it was stopped? Like STB Reboot? Sounds like your receiver maybe rebooted, but then again if that was the case it should have started the recording again after it rebooted.


Sorry for the late reply. No... it simply said "stopped" (almost like it had been stopped by a user, but I can assure you that nobody was up at 3-4AM to have done that).


----------



## MNipper

Sorry if this has already been posted for 4.41. I did a search, but didn't get a hit on anything that seemed to be the same thing.

This is an old, annoying bug (I'm clueless as to how this sort of regression makes its way back into the code).

If you are watching live TV from some channel.... let's say channel 9, and then you pick a recorded event and start to watch it, and THEN, you decide that you want to go back and start watching channel 9 again, so you pause the recorded event, and enter "9"... the stupid thing ignores your input. If you ever try to change back to the Live channel that you started at, it will never work. It WILL go to any other channel, just not the one where you started. (The annoying thing is that this might be two hours later, and you don't even remember where you were when you started all this, so you just key in "9" expecting it to jump. But, it just takes the numbers... shows them on the screen (at the top) momentarily, and then tosses them out, and redisplays the channel # of the DVR event. Only after you realize that it is in "stupid mode", can you actually fix the problem.)

Again, choosing any other channel will instantly take you back to Live mode, albeit not where you want to be, and then you simply change the channel again to get to where you should have been in the first place.

Here's hoping that they will fix this REALLY annoying problem (again) in the next release.

Thanks.


----------



## ChuckA

P Smith said:


> We all did read/listen to that.
> 
> Now, please, read what ppl reported when they REALLY swap ESD between 622s.


I read almost every post here. Why don't you ever say what you mean instead of just insinuating everything? Point me to a post where ppl have reported problems doing a swap.


----------



## P Smith

I don't know how you miss the main thread about transfer b/w receivers, this is one post from there http://dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1049920&postcount=8


----------



## Packy

Woohoo! Thank goodness for Groups! This was one of the features I added to the "must have" list months ago. Also can't wait to start saving $5 a month once I connect our broadband. NICE. Everything seems to be working smoothly so far. I haven't messed with trick play much, since I mainly use the skip buttons.


----------



## P Smith

Packy said:


> Woohoo! Thank goodness for Groups! This was one of the features I added to the "must have" list months ago. Also can't wait to start saving $5 a month once I connect our broadband. NICE. Everything seems to be working smoothly so far. I haven't messed with trick play much, since I mainly use the skip buttons.


Saving ? Huh ?

It remind my school's days when older boys took my dollar for lunch, so when I grew up and I defended myself so start 'saving' those coins for sci-fi books. Woohoo ?  Actually, now I see it as very sad thing.


----------



## Ken McDonough

I noticed the new screen saver a few days ago and didn't realize that meant I'd been upgraded to L4.41. Now my 622 receiver is undergoing perpetual reboot. I've unplugged it and will see what happens tomorrow. If no one else has had this problem then it must be a hardware issue.


----------



## krt

When connecting the VIP622 to a HK AVR 8000 receiver via TOSLINK, audio is lost after switching from a HD to a SD channel. The 622 is correctly setup for DD/PCM. Audio can be recovered by unplugging and replugging the TOSLINK cable, changing inputs on the AVR, or changing the Dolby modes back and forth on the AVR. Changing channels back to an HD one also recovers audio.

I have changed TOSLINK cables, as well as changed the TOSLINK input on the AVR without success. Other devices do not have any issue when connected to the same input on the AVR with the same cable.


----------



## isuzudave

krt said:


> When connecting the VIP622 to a HK AVR 8000 receiver via TOSLINK, audio is lost after switching from a HD to a SD channel. The 622 is correctly setup for DD/PCM. Audio can be recovered by unplugging and replugging the TOSLINK cable, changing inputs on the AVR, or changing the Dolby modes back and forth on the AVR. Changing channels back to an HD one also recovers audio.
> 
> I have changed TOSLINK cables, as well as changed the TOSLINK input on the AVR without success. Other devices do not have any issue when connected to the same input on the AVR with the same cable.


Did this work prior to the 4.41 software? Are the other devices you are trying that seem to work fine change from Dolby Digital to regular stereo? If unplugging the cable at your AVR and plugging it back in works, it sounds like a problem with your AVR.


----------



## Taco Lover

krt said:


> When connecting the VIP622 to a HK AVR 8000 receiver via TOSLINK, audio is lost after switching from a HD to a SD channel. The 622 is correctly setup for DD/PCM. Audio can be recovered by unplugging and replugging the TOSLINK cable, changing inputs on the AVR, or changing the Dolby modes back and forth on the AVR. Changing channels back to an HD one also recovers audio.
> 
> I have changed TOSLINK cables, as well as changed the TOSLINK input on the AVR without success. Other devices do not have any issue when connected to the same input on the AVR with the same cable.


May be a problem with your AV receiver. I'm using optical on my Pioneer receiver and am not seeing this problem.


----------



## krt

isuzudave said:


> Did this work prior to the 4.41 software? Are the other devices you are trying that seem to work fine change from Dolby Digital to regular stereo? If unplugging the cable at your AVR and plugging it back in works, it sounds like a problem with your AVR.


I switched from a 921 to a Vip622 a couple of weeks ago. So, I am not sure if it worked prior to 4.41 software. However, the 921 did not have any issue with the same cable and AVR input. I also have two DVD players as well as a 721 hooked up to the same AVR. None of these other devices have audio loss switching from DD to PCM and vice-versa. Rebooting the Vip622 does not help.


----------



## Ron Barry

So are you saying that using the same exact cable as what your 622 is using with another device does not result in the same behavior? If this is the case that should rule out cabling, though a good test is to flip cables and see if the problem moves. 

If it stays with your 622, then I would start to look at the configuration in your 622 and AV receiver. Check that your 622 is set to PCM/DD and go through your AV receiver and make sure you have the right settings. A lot of the audio issues people run into turn into improper AV configuration setups. 

If all seems good, then you might have a bad 622 or a incompatibility between the 622 and your receiver. If you notice this thread, not a lot of people are complaining about audio issues so I would say it is unlikely a 4.41 software issue, but I never rule anything out or point quickly at software as a cause. Been there too many times only to find it was not what I obviously thought it was.  

If it is a software incompatibility, I would do a Google on HK AVR 8000 and 622 and see if you get any hits.. Perhaps someone else is seeing what you are seeing and that would point to an issue between the 622 and your AV receiver. If you run into other reports that sound like yours, then I would suspect a incompatibility issue at this pointl

If this is not the case, Just because your other devices work and the 622 does not, I would not put the blame on the 622. Still could be an AV receiver issue that the 622 is running into that other receiver do not or it could be a 622 issue. This has happened in the past with the configuration of OTA streams. What works with one STB does not with another and in a lot of cases it turns out to be stream misconfiguration. 

If you have gone through the steps above, you might want to try a box swap and see if that resolves the issue, if it does not I am not sure what else to suggest in terms of trouble shooting except looking for someone on the DBS Boards that have has your same exact receiver and see if they are having the same issue. Getting an independent confirmation of the same configuration and the same issue would really help in ruling out a lot of other possibilities.


----------



## dgilley

My 622 was updated a few days ago with the new firmware. I hadn't gotten around to doing a complete power-off reset yet.

An hour ago my 622 crashed instantly when I pressed a button on the remote. After the crash it couldn't find any satellites. After waiting a long time letting it try and fail, I did a forced reset by pushing the front panel button. That still didn't clear the problem. So I did a power-off reset. The problem still didn't go away for a long time. I went and tested the switch, which took longer than normal. Still no signal strnegth showed up. Then, seemingly randomly, it finally did show signal stength.

And I was able to see programming again.

But my favorites are all messed up. Each group is missing 75% of the channels I previously had assigned.

Then I noticed that many of my channels are now missing! They don't just show as present in the "all channels" group as not subscribed. They don't show up in the all channels group at all. But a broad mix does show up including a mix of regular channels, PPV, HBO, etc.

What the heck is going on? GRRRRR.

-dg


----------



## ChuckA

It sounds like you don't have the full Guide data. Do another check switch and that will force a Guide download.


----------



## P Smith

It was siganl problem for all of us - see other thread.


----------



## krt

Ron Barry said:


> So are you saying that using the same exact cable as what your 622 is using with another device does not result in the same behavior? If this is the case that should rule out cabling, though a good test is to flip cables and see if the problem moves.


The issue stays with the Vip622 no matter which cable or input is used with the HK AVR 8000. Also, the Vip622 does not have this issue when connected to my Sony pre-amp/processor with the same Toslink cable.



Ron Barry said:


> Check that your 622 is set to PCM/DD and go through your AV receiver and make sure you have the right settings.


The 622 is set for DD/PCM. The HK AVR-8000 always auto detects signals and will override user settings, no matter what decode mode it is in. I normally use Logic 7 7.1. In this mode, the AVR-8000 can decode PCM, DD2.0, and DD5.1 and convert these to Logic 7.

On experimenting, it looks like the AVR-8000 cannot tell that the DD stream has changed to PCM when hooked up to the Vip622. i.e. If DD5.1 is set, and I change to an SD channel (PCM), the AVR still thinks it is decoding DD 5.1. Normally, the AVR would automatically switch to DPLII. Perhaphs the Vip622 does not pause the stream long enough for the AVR to detect the change.



Ron Barry said:


> If you have gone through the steps above, you might want to try a box swap and see if that resolves the issue, if it does not I am not sure what else to suggest in terms of trouble shooting except looking for someone on the DBS Boards that have has your same exact receiver and see if they are having the same issue. Getting an independent confirmation of the same configuration and the same issue would really help in ruling out a lot of other possibilities.


Agreed. An independant confimation of the issue would really help. A Google search did not produce a match. I will call Dish and report the issue. I am not sure if a 622 swap would help, but I would be willing to give it a try.

Thanks again.


----------



## Ron Barry

dgilley said:


> My 622 was updated a few days ago with the new firmware. I hadn't gotten around to doing a complete power-off reset yet.
> 
> An hour ago my 622 crashed instantly when I pressed a button on the remote. After the crash it couldn't find any satellites. After waiting a long time letting it try and fail, I did a forced reset by pushing the front panel button. That still didn't clear the problem. So I did a power-off reset. The problem still didn't go away for a long time. I went and tested the switch, which took longer than normal. Still no signal strnegth showed up. Then, seemingly randomly, it finally did show signal stength.
> 
> And I was able to see programming again.
> 
> But my favorites are all messed up. Each group is missing 75% of the channels I previously had assigned.
> 
> Then I noticed that many of my channels are now missing! They don't just show as present in the "all channels" group as not subscribed. They don't show up in the all channels group at all. But a broad mix does show up including a mix of regular channels, PPV, HBO, etc.
> 
> What the heck is going on? GRRRRR.
> 
> -dg


Definitely give the power cord reset a try and see if that clears things up. What I recommend, whenever a new version of software hits the box if you see something strange, step one is do a power cord reset to completely clear out the memory. It is possible that something did not get cleared out during the update and reboot.

Give the power cord reset and a check switch and see if order is restored.


----------



## ls7dude

Well, Dish really satisfied me with this external HD. My 622 was really hurting with only a couple of hours left every day of HD space. Now, with my new external HD I'm hooked up. 

One little annoying thing. Sometimes when I go to access the USB drive it says I have to call Dish to activate, even though I have already. I click on it again and it works, but it is a tad annoying.


----------



## P Smith

ls7dude said:


> Well, Dish really satisfied me with this external HD. My 622 was really hurting with only a couple of hours left every day of HD space. Now, with my new external HD I'm hooked up.
> 
> One little annoying thing. Sometimes when I go to access the USB drive it says I have to call Dish to activate, even though I have already. I click on it again and it works, but it is a tad annoying.


Read what was in L4.42, that's will help you.


----------



## farmerdave4

Anybody having problems with 622 4.41 not finding contents of Ext drive unless you reboot 622 or replugin the hard drive? I am using a Seagate 500gb free agent pro.


----------



## Mike D-CO5

Yes, everyone is having problems with the seagate hard drives doing exactly what you describe. The external hard drives are set to turn off after about 15 minutes. So each time you have to unplug and replug the hard drive in to get it to work with the 622 . Unless you go into the seagate website and download the utilities option where you can set the external hard drives to never turn off. I have done this by following the directions set up by a member at the satguys. I can't tell you exactly how to do it except to down load the seagate external hard drive support to your computer and then plug your external hard drive to the computer and let it find the drive. Once it does you can hit on utilities and set it to never power down. Try the seagate website and maybe you can figure it out. My drive now works just like my internal drive seamlessly. I plugged my external hard drive into an extension cord and plugged it into the back of my a/v receiver and when I turn it off the hard drive goes off too. This way I am not running the external hard drive 24 /7.


----------



## Ron Barry

Good post Mike.... Yeah seems that a number of people are having some issues with the Seagates, though others seem to be doing ok. Wonder if it has something to do with the drives configuration. 

Funny thing.. When USB drive support was first talked about there and it was just a twinkly in our eyes, there was a thread and opinions saying that it should just work.. any USB drive. Plug it in. They are all the same... Well I guess that was proved wrong.  

Well any information people are finding out to solve issues with seagates, please post your experiences. Looks like it is a great opportunity for people to help people.


----------



## hmcewin

krt said:


> The issue stays with the Vip622 no matter which cable or input is used with the HK AVR 8000. Also, the Vip622 does not have this issue when connected to my Sony pre-amp/processor with the same Toslink cable.
> 
> The 622 is set for DD/PCM. The HK AVR-8000 always auto detects signals and will override user settings, no matter what decode mode it is in. I normally use Logic 7 7.1. In this mode, the AVR-8000 can decode PCM, DD2.0, and DD5.1 and convert these to Logic 7.
> 
> On experimenting, it looks like the AVR-8000 cannot tell that the DD stream has changed to PCM when hooked up to the Vip622. i.e. If DD5.1 is set, and I change to an SD channel (PCM), the AVR still thinks it is decoding DD 5.1. Normally, the AVR would automatically switch to DPLII. Perhaphs the Vip622 does not pause the stream long enough for the AVR to detect the change.
> 
> Agreed. An independant confimation of the issue would really help. A Google search did not produce a match. I will call Dish and report the issue. I am not sure if a 622 swap would help, but I would be willing to give it a try.
> 
> Thanks again.


 My Yamaha receiver will occasionally behave the same way. Requires me to hit the input button on the reciever remote to cycle throuth DTS, Dolby etc. BTW, I have it set to automatically sense the type of input but sometimes it fails. It is annoying but it happens only infrequently. I never found a permanent solution.


----------



## gnm313-1

Packy said:


> Woohoo! Thank goodness for Groups! This was one of the features I added to the "must have" list months ago. Also can't wait to start saving $5 a month once I connect our broadband. NICE. Everything seems to be working smoothly so far. I haven't messed with trick play much, since I mainly use the skip buttons.


I like the group function. What I don't like is that you can't sort the remaining recordings by record date. It goes to a sort by name once you group and there is no changing it. The grouped recordings are sorted by record date, just not the non-grouped. Seems like an oversight. They need to bring back the sort option when grouping. I supposed they figured it was hard to sort a group by date, but they can just put all the folders at the top reguardless of sort.


----------



## whatchel1

I've had the HDD on my system since the 15th. It has been able to transfer to it and watch from it. Now for the problem. Yesterday the 622 lost some of my sats and had to do switch check didn't work. So did hard reboot. Then it came up to tell me I needed to call E* to authorize the ext. HDD. It wouldn't go past that screen. So called E* and was told that it is a 441 problem . Went thru a bunch of hoops w/ the CSR and is being fixed w/442. Got it working again, & didn't loose anthing on the HDD. Was afraid that I would wind up having to reformat and loose the 14 hrs of things transferred to the ext HDD. Today the 622 has rebooted itself twice. Hope 442 get to all the 622's soon for the fix. If it keeps it up E* will be hearing from me.


----------



## stuwecker

yovinman said:


> I'm having a LOT of problems using a Seagate Free Agent Pro - 750GB drive with my 622. After successfully transferring some recordings from the 622 to the Seagate, the 622 now refuses do any further transfers. I get an "Error 855" - "An error occurred while transferring events to your USB Storage Device." I did a soft reset, after which I was able to transfer recordings again, but again, just once. Now I get the "Error 855" again, and can't do any more transfers. Any one else run into this? Any suggestions on what to do or what may be going on? This is not going to work if the Seagate drive won't play nice with the 622. Thanks in advance for any help.


I am having the identical problem with the Seagate Free Agent 500 GB drive. I have reported the problem to Dish and they have the engineers working on it.


----------



## aginzu

My 622 running 4.41 now occasionally gets into a slow frame rate mode where the audio is fine but the video seems to be running at about 5 frames per second, resulting in jerky motion. It did it both during playback of recorded programming as well as live programming. I am using DVI as my display output. At first I thought it had something to do with having a USB disk drive attached, but it continued after I disconnected the drive.

I have to do a soft reboot to get it out of that mode. Has anyone else seen this?


----------



## tnsprin

This may have been an existing bug, but just encountered it.

I was previously allowing mapdown of HD Channels (not locals which I never allowed). But recently I have set several programs that have lots of hits, which I need to edit to skip programs in the series that I have already seen. But with mapdown, once you skip one version of the programming (say on the mapped down channel) it just pops up again on the original channel, so you have to skip the show twice and of course it probably also is shown again later in the day so still more skips have to be done. 

So to make things simpler for myself I turned off the map down feature. But now when I select a previously recorded program to view, it says its locked and ask me for my password.


----------



## David-A

This is an update to my previous post in this thread about having signal loss problems after L441 was downloaded. A Dish installer came out Saturday. The problem turned out to be a defective 622 which he replaced. Apparently it was just coincidence that the problem started right after L441.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

gnm313 said:


> I like the group function. What I don't like is that you can't sort the remaining recordings by record date. It goes to a sort by name once you group and there is no changing it. The grouped recordings are sorted by record date, just not the non-grouped. Seems like an oversight. They need to bring back the sort option when grouping. I supposed they figured it was hard to sort a group by date, but they can just put all the folders at the top reguardless of sort.


It's coming. There are many inprovements coming for the Groups. What you have now is the tip of the iceburg.


----------



## erh1117

Mark Lamutt said:


> It's coming. There are many inprovements coming for the Groups. What you have now is the tip of the iceburg.


Will one improvement include the obvious (to me) -- ability to sort movies into a group called,,,movies?


----------



## Mark Lamutt

erh1117 said:


> Will one improvement include the obvious (to me) -- ability to sort movies into a group called,,,movies?


Yup, almost certainly.


----------



## ferl

Mark Lamutt said:


> Yup, almost certainly.


Will we be able to sort/group the external drive?


----------



## gnm313-1

Mark Lamutt said:


> It's coming. There are many inprovements coming for the Groups. What you have now is the tip of the iceburg.


Cool. Thanks Mark. Great to hear they are listening


----------



## Eagles

Ever since L4.41, the 622 which is hooked to my Samsung LCD via HDMI has become unstable when viewing live or recorded shows. This happens on all channels, Dish and OTA. Basically the picture will freeze as if paused for a couple of seconds, but the sound will continue. The screen will then go black for a couple of seconds or so and the the live picture will return. The audio during the black screen period will sometimes stay on or completely disappear. 
This happens pretty regularly while watching shows. Every couple of minutes or so. Very frustrating. Tried soft and hard reboots. 
My other 622 via component video is fine. Do you think this could be HDMI related? I saw something about resetting the HDMI in the 622 menu. Would this possibly help? When I get home tonight, I'm going to hook up this receiver via component video and see if there is any difference. Anyone else seeing this? Any thoughts on this?


----------



## Ron Barry

Eagle...

Is CC better worse or the same with L4.41 from your vantage point?


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## bhodgins

CC is worse from my vantage point. I have to reboot the darn box every day, it seems. The problems all started with 4.05.


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## Mark Lamutt

ferl said:


> Will we be able to sort/group the external drive?


I really hope so. It's needed.


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## Eagles

Ron Barry said:


> Eagle...
> 
> Is CC better worse or the same with L4.41 from your vantage point?


Ron,

"CC DISPLAY" and "CC SYNC" issues have not improved with L4.41. However with L4.41 I now have CC support on TNTHD where I didn't with L4.05. There may be some other instances where CC support may have been added that I am not aware of. Most of my observations are based on the channels and shows my wife and I tend to watch. 
I still do not have CC support on my Fox, Dish HD Local (005-00 / 6362) but this is probably not software related. 
As you may know, Rob Glasser was able to put me in touch with the Dish engineering department on this issue. I shared some of my CC testing and video examples with them. I contacted them after L4.41 and they pretty much confirmed that no CC fixes were in L4.41. Actually the TNTHD CC support fix happened with L4.09. I lost it when they rolled us all back to L4.05 and got it back with L4.41.


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## Scotty

Eagles said:


> Ever since L4.41, the 622 which is hooked to my Samsung LCD via HDMI has become unstable when viewing live or recorded shows. This happens on all channels, Dish and OTA. Basically the picture will freeze as if paused for a couple of seconds, but the sound will continue. The screen will then go black for a couple of seconds or so and the the live picture will return. The audio during the black screen period will sometimes stay on or completely disappear.
> This happens pretty regularly while watching shows. Every couple of minutes or so. Very frustrating.
> 
> Anyone else seeing this? Any thoughts on this?


Eagles,

I am seeing this but not as frequently - so far only 2-3 times a day, on all channels and recordings, including OTA. I see the freeze screen and the blacked out screen, but not together.

Even though I use optical for sound, I still lose sound most of the time.

I am going to try component, too, and Ron's suggestion.

Scotty


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## dbconsultant

Had our first strange experience with 4.41. We had been watching a DVR'd event and when it was finished the 622 all of a sudden starting searching for satellite & transponders (clear night, no wind) - didn't reboot, it just seemed like it lost its transponders. Couldn't find them, told us to channel up or down after which it recommended we run the check switch (error 002) which we did successfully. After running the check switch, it again couldn't find satellites. I gave it a hard reboot and it came back up, found the satellites and downloaded the program guide. Seems fine now but just seemed weird. We've had the unit for about a year and a half during which time it's run like a champ with none of the rebooting stuff we've seen others go through. Hopefully this is just a one time 'glitch'.

Edit: Oops! Just saw on the general sat discussion that there were problems with an uplink unit and everybody was seeing this. So, I take it back, not a problem with 4.41.

Never mind!


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## gnm313-1

dbconsultant said:


> Had our first strange experience with 4.41. We had been watching a DVR'd event and when it was finished the 622 all of a sudden starting searching for satellite & transponders (clear night, no wind) - didn't reboot, it just seemed like it lost its transponders. Couldn't find them, told us to channel up or down after which it recommended we run the check switch (error 002) which we did successfully. After running the check switch, it again couldn't find satellites. I gave it a hard reboot and it came back up, found the satellites and downloaded the program guide. Seems fine now but just seemed weird. We've had the unit for about a year and a half during which time it's run like a champ with none of the rebooting stuff we've seen others go through. Hopefully this is just a one time 'glitch'.
> 
> Edit: Oops! Just saw on the general sat discussion that there were problems with an uplink unit and everybody was seeing this. So, I take it back, not a problem with 4.41.
> 
> Never mind!


I had rain fade last night on my 622. My other dual tuner receivers were fine (721, 522). The 622 seems to be more sensitive. It also bugs me that rain fade affects my OTA. If I tune to an OTA channel, it gives me a quick signal strength 100 and then goes to searching for 110/119 rain fade message. Hope this gets fixed.


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## Kricket

gnm313 said:


> I had rain fade last night on my 622. My other dual tuner receivers were fine (721, 522). The 622 seems to be more sensitive. It also bugs me that rain fade affects my OTA. If I tune to an OTA channel, it gives me a quick signal strength 100 and then goes to searching for 110/119 rain fade message. Hope this gets fixed.


i havent read all 350+ posts in this thread so i apologize if this has been addressed - but right now its POURING in chicago - so i figure ill just watch some recorded movies i havent gotten around to - i get to the dvr menu, select "man of the year" and hit "start" - immediately the receiver goes to the "acquiring satellite signal" screen - after a few minutes, it downloads new program information and then repeats the cycle

ive tried this on about 10 different programs i have recorded - i used to be able to watch programs i had recorded when there was no sat signal - you know, because theyre recorded...

love the new feature :sure:


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## bdj6020

After a HORRIBLY long phone call with customer service I finally got someone to remove the $5 no phone line fee from my bill because I hooked up the broadband connection.

First I called customer service. That rep couldn't figure out how to verify that my 622 had connected and transfered me to tech support. While waiting in the tech support queue I pulled up the online customer support chat window and started trying that route. After ~40 minutes the online customer support person finally figured out how to verify that my DVR had connected and that they could remove the fee. I was still on hold waiting in the tech support queue the whole time.

So in summary, yes you can get the fee removed. It's a horrible headache to do so at the moment because it appears the customer support people haven't been trained fully on this new feature.


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## Ron Barry

Might want to look at the release notes and scan the thread. I think Rob mentions it a few times. I disconnected mine for a while and then reconnected.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=94427

Though the IPConnect is in this release it is not a supported feature as yet so the recommendation is to keep that phone line connected.


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## Mike D-CO5

I Knew that there was a catch to the ip connect features that the tech chat talked about: NOT SUPPORTED YET. Good thing I have all of my receivers plugged into the phone lines and the ethernet too. I had to buy a rca wireless modem/ phone jack but it works now along with the netgear wireless ethernet jack . Quite expensive to keep connected , but it beats the hell out of the DISH AUDIT NAZIS calling you and giving you the third degree .


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## Hunter Green

We got our $5 fee waived too, though I'll believe it when I see it.


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## Larry Caldwell

Eagles said:


> Ever since L4.41, the 622 which is hooked to my Samsung LCD via HDMI has become unstable when viewing live or recorded shows. This happens on all channels, Dish and OTA. Basically the picture will freeze as if paused for a couple of seconds, but the sound will continue. The screen will then go black for a couple of seconds or so and the the live picture will return. The audio during the black screen period will sometimes stay on or completely disappear.
> This happens pretty regularly while watching shows. Every couple of minutes or so. Very frustrating. Tried soft and hard reboots.
> My other 622 via component video is fine. Do you think this could be HDMI related? I saw something about resetting the HDMI in the 622 menu. Would this possibly help? When I get home tonight, I'm going to hook up this receiver via component video and see if there is any difference. Anyone else seeing this? Any thoughts on this?


My 622 shows something very similar, using component video at 720p. I don't see the black screen, but the video stutter is frequent and annoying. CC also proceeds normally, even though the video is frozen. I also get some blocking - not really pixellation, but blocks of the screen being refreshed and other parts not being refreshed. Audio continues normally.

This seems to happen on recorded shows, on both SD and HD channels. I haven't noticed it while watching live programming, but I rarely watch live programming. I have wondered if it is related to hard drive fragmentation. I have considered activating the external drive feature and moving everything off of the consumer partition to see if that improves things.


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## bobukcat

My 622 was working well with L4.41 but ever since I added a USB Hard Drive to it on Friday the following issues are occurring frequently:

Acquiring Signal: When I turn the unit on from standby I often have the "Aqcuiring Signal: Progress 0 of 5" message and it will sit there for a very long time without progressing. If it does eventuallly go trough and finish it then gives me a "Downloading Guide Data" screen, which sometimes completes and sometimes locks up for 20 minutes or more until I cancel it. If I go to the point dish or sys information screen without waiting for the Acquiring Signal screen to finish it shows perfect (no delay at all) and I can then hit cancel and be back to watching live TV. I haven't been able to tell if the receiver rebooted itself at some point before these messages or if they are triggered by something else, I just know that if it's been in standby for more than 6 hours or so I get this issue 100% or the time. 

The USB drive is a WD MyBook Premium Edition 750 GB drive.


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## boylehome

bobukcat said:


> My 622 was working well with L4.41 but ever since I added a USB Hard Drive to it on Friday the following issues are occurring frequently:...
> 
> ...The USB drive is a WD MyBook Premium Edition 750 GB drive.


I have the WD MyBook Premium Edition 500GB. It has the same problems that you are reporting. Now, I just use it for my computer data. Until something gets fixed, you can disconnect the MyBook at the end the day, or whenever the 622 does a reset.


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## bobukcat

boylehome said:


> I have the WD MyBook Premium Edition 500GB. It has the same problems that you are reporting. Now, I just use it for my computer data. Until something gets fixed, you can disconnect the MyBook at the end the day, or whenever the 622 does a reset.


Last night things were even worse than normal, I had an OTA show recording and when I tried to go to the "Start Over" option the 622 instantly rebooted itself and then would not acquire a signal or download the guide data. I managed to get back to the live OTA show I wanted recorded (much of which was now missed of course) and when I hit the record button to record the rest it gave me a "Guide Data Unavailable" message and wouldn't start recording. I front panel rebooted it again and turned of the external drive and since then it seems to be working well. I stayed away from the Seagate Drives because of the problems people reported with them but it looks like the WD Premium models are a bad combination too!


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## Scotty

bobukcat said:


> My 622 was working well with L4.41 but ever since I added a USB Hard Drive to it on Friday the following issues are occurring frequently:
> Acquiring Signal: When I turn the unit on from standby I often have the "Aqcuiring Signal: Progress 0 of 5" message and it will sit there for a very long time without progressing. If it does eventuallly go trough and finish it then gives me a "Downloading Guide Data" screen, which sometimes completes and sometimes locks up for 20 minutes or more until I cancel it. If I go to the point dish or sys information screen without waiting for the Acquiring Signal screen to finish it shows perfect (no delay at all) and I can then hit cancel and be back to watching live TV. I haven't been able to tell if the receiver rebooted itself at some point before these messages or if they are triggered by something else, I just know that if it's been in standby for more than 6 hours or so I get this issue 100% or the time.
> 
> The USB drive is a WD MyBook Premium Edition 750 GB drive.


I have the same WD 750 GB hard drive, and have had the same problems with same symptoms. I bought a WD after I bought a Seagate because of the reports of problems with the Seagate hard drives. I thought I'd just put the Seagate on my computer. Probably should have waited for the bugs to be worked out!

Another symptom noted is the absence of lights except for the recording light.

Scotty


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## DaddyDuke

Good Questions


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## DaddyDuke

Could this be a receiver problem and not a Hard Drive Problem? Since a lot of different brand name Hard Drives seem to be having the same problem with the
622 receivers it makes one wonder if it could be the receiver software?


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## DaddyDuke

Moridin said:


> Which makes me curious: what happens if (when?) my second 622 dies after I've paid this enabling fee?





Scotty said:


> I have the same WD 750 GB hard drive, and have had the same problems with same symptoms. I bought a WD after I bought a Seagate because of the reports of problems with the Seagate hard drives. I thought I'd just put the Seagate on my computer. Probably should have waited for the bugs to be worked out!
> 
> Another symptom noted is the absence of lights except for the recording light.
> 
> Scotty


Wonder if anyone is having this problem with the new 722?'
Duke


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## Scotty

Scotty said:


> I have the same WD 750 GB hard drive, and have had the same problems with same symptoms. I bought a WD after I bought a Seagate because of the reports of problems with the Seagate hard drives. I thought I'd just put the Seagate on my computer. Probably should have waited for the bugs to be worked out!
> 
> Another symptom noted is the absence of lights except for the recording light.


Last night, I disconnected the WD 750 GB Hard Drive, did a hard re-boot and a soft re-boot and the 622 (F Model) now appears normal. I will watch to see if it happens again after the disconect.

Scotty


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## tedb3rd

ViP622 w/4.41
Maxtor OneTouch III 750GB External Hard Drive

This hard drive automatically goes into hybernation after a certain amount of time. If you try to access the hard drive after it has gone into hybernation, the 622 gives the "You need to activate this feature..." message. Pressing cancel, waiting a few seconds, then selecting "manage device" again corrects the problem.

This might be fixed in 4.42 but I don't know.


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## bobukcat

Scotty said:


> Last night, I disconnected the WD 750 GB Hard Drive, did a hard re-boot and a soft re-boot and the 622 (F Model) now appears normal. I will watch to see if it happens again after the disconect.
> 
> Scotty


I turned my EHD off for a couple of days and turned it back on Wednesday, so far I've not had any of the problems (I'm still on 4.41) I was having very regularly before. Knock on wood.


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## Scotty

bobukcat said:


> I turned my EHD off for a couple of days and turned it back on Wednesday, so far I've not had any of the problems (I'm still on 4.41) I was having very regularly before. Knock on wood.


Bobukcat,

Thanks, I'll wait a few days and re-connect.

I wonder how many others experienced this. I have an "F" model/series that I received after my HDMI went out a year and few months ago....

Scotty


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## clarkbaker

anthonyi said:


> Can we by any external usb hard drive and what is the size limit?


The answer is 750GB is the max size. Maxtor has a drive that is USB 2.0 that fits the bill very well. Wish they had firewire.. but they don't.

You can play videos directly from the drive.. so once you put it over to the drive... playing off of it is not a big deal.. and frankly is really nice.

It is clearly obvious the 622 and 722 are better DVR's than anything else in the market.

USB activation is $40.00 one time. It activates all of the 622's and 722's in your house. There are rumors they roll it out for 211's and 222's.


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## wje

I've tracked down an HDMI problem that while not a show-stopper is certainly annoying. My new TV looks at the 'aspect' flag the 622 provides over HDMI to know when to side-bar upconverted content.

The problem is that when the 622 performs its handshake with the TV and is on a non-hd channel, it sets the aspect flag to 4:3 _and that's where it stays_, regardless of channel changes, etc. I have the 622 set for 1080i output. So, I have to change to an HD channel and do an HDMI reset to get the aspect set to 16:9.

I think the way the flag is supposed to work is that it isn't set strictly by the content's aspect, but by the aspect the device (the 622 in this case) is using. So, since I have my 622 set for a 16:9 TV, the flag should ALWAYS be 16:9 because the 622 has already added black sidebars itself. At the very least, the flag shouldn't say 4:3 for 16:9 content!


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## tnsprin

tedb3rd said:


> ViP622 w/4.41
> Maxtor OneTouch III 750GB External Hard Drive
> 
> This hard drive automatically goes into hybernation after a certain amount of time. If you try to access the hard drive after it has gone into hybernation, the 622 gives the "You need to activate this feature..." message. Pressing cancel, waiting a few seconds, then selecting "manage device" again corrects the problem.
> 
> This might be fixed in 4.42 but I don't know.


Some disk fixes are in L4.43. We need to hear (in the l4.43 thread) if they are still having disk problems when their disks spins up from power saving mode.


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## bawcior

I have the following problem with User Interface. When deleting the recorded show from groupped list, I am taken back to the original list show but not inside the groupped folder. Also, if I play the show first, then hit stop and delete it, I am taken back to the first recorded show and have to scroll back to where I was. This is very annoying when I am watching/deleting shows in batches. It would be nice to see this fixed in next release (4.42 or so).


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## BobaBird

bawcior, :welcome_s to DBSTalk!

My workaround for this design problem, which has been around long before groups were added, is to cancel out to the DVR list, press select to go back to that show's controls, then delete it. That returns me to my position in the DVR list.


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## Scotty

bobukcat said:


> I turned my EHD off for a couple of days and turned it back on Wednesday, so far I've not had any of the problems (I'm still on 4.41) I was having very regularly before. Knock on wood.


bobukat,

I re-connected my WD EHD on Sunday afternoon. Monday morning when I turned on 622, I had the downloading program guide message box. I pressed select, it went away, and has not returned. I did have two occasions of picture blackouts of about 3-5 seconds in the morning, but sound. No problems since. I haven't tried to delete anything from the EHD yet.

Scotty


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## Scotty

Follow up to posts 389, 383, 380 & 376:

I had the "Aqcuiring Signal: Progress 0 of 5" message AGAIN, and I disconnected the WD EHD and did a soft re-boot.

I have had no problems while the EHD is dsconnected.

Are other people having this problem?

Scotty


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## JoeCNM

Hello Scotty,
I am having the same problem as you with the HD connected. I had my receiver replaced and the problem continues. I am using a WD 750 GB Premium drive. I do not know what software version I'm on. I think I'll be disconnecting my HD until I read of a fix here.
Joe


Scotty said:


> Follow up to posts 389, 383, 380 & 376:
> 
> I had the "Aqcuiring Signal: Progress 0 of 5" message AGAIN, and I disconnected the WD EHD and did a soft re-boot.
> 
> I have had no problems while the EHD is dsconnected.
> 
> Are other people having this problem?
> 
> Scotty


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## P Smith

The thread come to the end of life L4.41 and L4.42.

L4.43 is spooling for ALL receivers last week !


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## JoeCNM

P Smith said:


> The thread come to the end of life L4.41 and L4.42.
> 
> L4.43 is spooling for ALL receivers last week !


So this problem will no longer be an issue with the new software update?


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## Ron Barry

I don't think that was what P.Smith was saying. Basically we need to unstick the threads.


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## Boson

clarkbaker said:


> The answer is 750GB is the max size. Maxtor has a drive that is USB 2.0 that fits the bill very well. Wish they had firewire.. but they don't.
> 
> You can play videos directly from the drive.. so once you put it over to the drive... playing off of it is not a big deal.. and frankly is really nice.
> 
> It is clearly obvious the 622 and 722 are better DVR's than anything else in the market.
> 
> USB activation is $40.00 one time. It activates all of the 622's and 722's in your house. There are rumors they roll it out for 211's and 222's.


Has anyone atempted to connect their EHD to a second box? I am replacing my 622 with a 722 and several DISH folks stated that reconnecting to a completly different box within the same household will work - the new box will see and function with the archived recordings made form the 'old' box. They did say that you can only connect the EHD up to 3 times before it will require (request) a reformat.

*Has anyone successfully made a second connection? My 722 comes today and I have 550 Gb of archived shows I don't want to lose! *


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