# Can you mount dish so weather not a problem?



## grunes (Nov 13, 2013)

We are considering changing from cable to Dish or DirectTV, to save money.

But one friend says that their satellite dish needs to be re-aligned after major storms, about once a month (in Maryland, near DC). 

1. What fraction of sat dish customers have this problem? Please confine responses to those areas that sometimes have thunderstorms, but rarely have truly extreme weather.

2. Is there a an economically practical way to mount the dish so it isn't a problem? Method must not violate National Electric code. (I presume attic mounts loose too much signal strength?)

3. I see that they design motor-driven satellite dish antennas for RVs that self-align. How reliable are the various systems?

4. You could do the same thing electronically with an antenna array. Any comments on available systems?

5. What fraction of such customers have other weather problems - e.g., loss of signal in rain or snow?


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Your friend needs a better install, as that sort of thing shouldn't happen. Either it is mounted in an insecure location (on rotting underlayment on the roof, for instance) or needs some additional stabilization if it is very exposed to the wind. If he's getting aligned a monthly basis he should escalate his issue with Directv or Dish, as the case may be, and demand they send a more experienced installer out who can evaluate what the real problem is and fix it, rather than applying a band aid of realignment on a monthly basis.

I can't give you percentages for any of those, and I doubt anyone can, but there are many, myself included, who have had dishes up for years without needing realignment. There are occasional weather problems, nothing can prevent rain fade when the rain is heavy enough. In the DC area such heavy rain won't last long so it shouldn't be a big issue.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

I didn't even need realignment after we had a windstorm that took out power to 90% of cincinnati. For snow, it is useful to have the dish easily accessible, but you can also use a super soaker and blast it away.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

I've lived in three houses with DIRECTV installed, and each one has been better than the other- mounting stronger, wires cleaner, overall neater. In my current house, I've not had any weather outages for the year I've been here. We get very strong winds here, not so much rain, though this last week, 3" over five days. No problem at all.


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## gov (Jan 11, 2013)

My DirecTV dish and my DISH dish have both survived 60+ MPH winds repeatedly in the last month alone, without needing realigned.

LOL, my DirecTV KaKu dish has 3 monopoles on it, but the DISH 110/119/129 is just up on the roof on it's own.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

I live in FL. Lots of high winds/thunderstorms all the way up to hurricanes. Since 2000, we've only had one realignment and that wasn't the purpose of the visit: we received a new box and the installers made a routine realignment (I think our lowest signal was 89; most were 92-95).

Depending on the strength of the storm, we will lose our signal for several minutes. But I doubt the total time during the last year exceeded 30 minutes. Our neighbors lost their cable signal (reason still unknown), and it was several days before it was repaired.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

you could reduce outage of sat signal to minimum if you will install 10m [30'] dish with custom LNBF holder and three separate Ku/Ka LNBFs
perhaps you could try easy way - first time approach and really available to buy from Internet - with 3m [10'] antennae, to see how long the outage will lasts
I've seen nice 3...4.5M "spoon" Ka dishes in south European countries.... they're hold pretty well during local storms


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

P Smith said:


> you could reduce outage of sat signal to minimum if you will install 10m [30'] dish with custom LNBF holder and three separate Ku/Ka LNBFs
> perhaps you could try easy way - first time approach and really available to buy from Internet - with 3m [10'] antennae, to see how long the outage will lasts
> I've seen nice 3...4.5M "spoon" Ka dishes in south European countries.... they're hold pretty well during local storms


Is there a smiley missing?

An absurd suggestion. Have you been drinking?


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

perhaps 10M would be hard to obtain and install, but I've used 10' and found that's your post is absurd without merit


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

One of the advantages to current DSS tech is not needing to use a dish the size of what was used in the old C Band days....I have to agree with Laxguy, making a suggestion like that today is rather absurd.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

1m for international channels, 1.2m for Alaska, 2m for Hawaii ... are not absurd; so 3m is doable for sure (I did that)
I would love to have 10m dish, but ... money is the issue, if you remember such thing included in estate's sale nearby a couple years ago

BTW, the "advantage" of small dish is really close to absurdness if you will look at the topic's meaning


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

A 10m dish at an estate sale? Did a TV station die?

As stated in the earlier posts ... a properly aimed standard dish should be good enough for most people - certainly not as troublesome as the stories heard by the thread starter. Professionally installed ... or at least installed at a professional level.

The larger dishes for some areas (AK/HI) are a standard in themselves. Not really needed in most of the US.


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## grunes (Nov 13, 2013)

I guess one obvious question is - what band do DishTV and DirectTV require, and can most 3 m dishes work with them? Maybe the extra gain would be high enough to work well in an attic... Though I would start to wonder whether that big a dish wouldn't start to attract lightning through the attic. After all, I think it would effectively be grounded through the sat receiver, and that's a pretty big piece of grounded metal.

If used outdoors, I would think that a 3 meter dish would be more directional, and therefore more sensitive than the typical mini-dish to wind storms, as well as having a greater cross section to wind. No?

In any event, it sounds like wind is usually not a problem for most of you. The friend had a mast-mounted system - but her husband does his own re-alignments, so maybe something isn't mounted as tight as it should be.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

grunes said:


> I guess one obvious question is - what band do DishTV and DirectTV require, and can most 3 m dishes work with them? Maybe the extra gain would be high enough to work well in an attic... Though I would start to wonder whether that big a dish wouldn't start to attract lightning through the attic. After all, I think it would effectively be grounded through the sat receiver, and that's a pretty big piece of grounded metal.
> 
> If used outdoors, I would think that a 3 meter dish would be more directional, and therefore more sensitive than the typical mini-dish to wind storms, as well as having a greater cross section to wind. No?
> 
> In any event, it sounds like wind is usually not a problem for most of you. The friend had a mast-mounted system - but her husband does his own re-alignments, so maybe something isn't mounted as tight as it should be.


the bands are Ku [12GHz] and Ka [18/20 GHz]
any size will work for them - bigger is better, less outage during heavy clouds, storms
no attic install !
grounding is better do at a pole (a tube of appropriate diameter)
sensitive ? not if it's properly mounted


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

James Long said:


> A 10m dish at an estate sale? Did a TV station die?
> ...


how you forgot it ? discussed two years ago (actually it's 97' ie 29.5M !!!)
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/10/us/jamesburg-earth-station-can-be-yours-for-3-million.html?_r=0


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

grunes said:


> I guess one obvious question is - what band do DishTV and DirectTV require, and can most 3 m dishes work with them? Maybe the extra gain would be high enough to work well in an attic... Though I would start to wonder whether that big a dish wouldn't start to attract lightning through the attic. After all, I think it would effectively be grounded through the sat receiver, and that's a pretty big piece of grounded metal.
> 
> If used outdoors, I would think that a 3 meter dish would be more directional, and therefore more sensitive than the typical mini-dish to wind storms, as well as having a greater cross section to wind. No?
> 
> In any event, it sounds like wind is usually not a problem for most of you. The friend had a mast-mounted system - but her husband does his own re-alignments, so maybe something isn't mounted as tight as it should be.


Again, unless you're a die-hard DIYer with knowledge of satellite waves and how best to pull them in, you'll be better off with a standard install. And then there are aesthetics. And a large base of similar installs.

Above all, don't let your friend peak your dish!!


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

grunes said:


> I guess one obvious question is - what band do DishTV and DirectTV require, and can most 3 m dishes work with them? Maybe the extra gain would be high enough to work well in an attic... Though I would start to wonder whether that big a dish wouldn't start to attract lightning through the attic. After all, I think it would effectively be grounded through the sat receiver, and that's a pretty big piece of grounded metal.
> 
> If used outdoors, I would think that a 3 meter dish would be more directional, and therefore more sensitive than the typical mini-dish to wind storms, as well as having a greater cross section to wind. No?
> 
> In any event, it sounds like wind is usually not a problem for most of you. The friend had a mast-mounted system - but her husband does his own re-alignments, so maybe something isn't mounted as tight as it should be.


no matter how big the dish is , is not going to work inside an attic.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

well, there is a chance to get it works in attic: if you'll have big glass part of a roof, like 30"x30" size and the glass should not have a lead in it


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Oh, great fix!! I recommend gorilla glass, installed at a cost of $380,000.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

so, finally you got the game right !
isn't time to shell out $3M for that estate with 30M dish ?!


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## grunes (Nov 13, 2013)

A 30 m dish? I would still need to re-align, because the ground would settle and shift under all that weight. There might be zoning and neighbor issues too. Especially since our property is only roughly 50' wide. I did say "economically practical". So, thanks for that suggestion, but I'll pass. 

It would be amusing to take a standard mini dish and use shaped chicken wire (if I could find some with a mesh much smaller than 20 Ghz => 1.5 cm wavelength) to reflect more beam width into its focal point. But no. Any passing lightning bolt would think all that wire was a lovely place to nest and call home. So would the birds... :grin:

There are links on the Internet from people who got attic dishes working, by aiming the dish through a window or skylight. One replaced the glass window with Plexiglas, which presumably blocks the signal less. Since most windows are vertically mounted, they probably wouldn't collect snow, though I guess an icey rain or frost might make trouble. The attic window in our home that faces south is on a heated room, so maybe it wouldn't be too bad.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

for a _reflection_ of the waves you'll need a mesh with cell size less then 4 mm; same requirement for a precision to make a parabola's curve

to get direction to the sats use a site www.dishpointer.com

and, yeah, 1m round plexiglass blister on your roof or on south wall would do it

That 97' dish made by professionals for professional use, no worry about structural or other issues; actually it's not re-movable, so you must buy the estate to begin use it
Interesting how much power it require to rotate the dish ? I would imagine if there special 1kV electrical AC line coming to the place.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

If you're using it for Directv you only need to rotate it once! :rolling:


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

If your neighbor is getting re-aligments done that often - something else is wrong. As stated above - many of us go YEARS without a realignment, and we live all over the United States. If you're concerned about winter weather - you can get dish heaters and LNB heaters - have to admit I thought about it this morning, but my SD Dish western arc was still pulling in just fine inspite of the snow we had yesterday.

Impossible to put a DBS dish in a covered attic. I don't usually recommend putting an OTA antenna in the attic if it can be avoided.

No matter how big a dish you get- you WILL run into a situation that you lose signal. That being said - the standard dishes DirectTv and Dish use suffice for over 98% of the time for over 99% of their customers. I once saw something on the internet that showed the minimum dish size in NC where I live for the 119/110 satellites was only 12 inches - granted - that is a boresighted install and the satellites do aim directly at NC. with a standard single slot dish of 18 inches - that covers a bit of slop in aiming and provides poor weather margin.


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## grunes (Nov 13, 2013)

I have an OTA antennas in the attic, an old omni-directional 21" Seawatch marine antenna, designed long before HDTV, set on a beam very close to the top of the roof ridge line. Wired via a cheap 25' coax cable directly into the TV, no pre-amp. (Since some channels already have strong signal strength, a pre-amp would do no good.)

I get 30 or 40 channels, some only at night. Almost all of the daytime channels still came in today despite 1/4" of snow on the roof. Which suggests that obstruction or frequency conflict matters more than signal strength, in my particular case. Which in turn implies I could do better with a higher mounted directional antenna, but I wanted to know how well I could do without spending any new money.

However, OTA has different wavelengths from satellite, so my example has no relevance to the present case.


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## jsk (Dec 27, 2006)

I think you are making too much of your neighbor's problems. Your neighbor has a bad install and should request to relocate the dish. I live in Northern Maryland and have had Dish for about 10 years and never needed a realignment and very rarely see rain fade (and when I do it lasts less than 15 minutes). I recommend a pole mount so you can easily wipe snow off of your dish. I rarely have to do this, but I know people who lose their satellite for days when we get snow (this is due to the location of the install which was necessary to get a good signal).


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## makaiguy (Sep 24, 2007)

For our intiial DirecTV installation In a previous home we mounted our dish on a side wall of the house so that it was sheltered under fairly wide eaves. This was in central Michigan where there was lots of snow every winter. In seven years at that home I don't recall ever having to clean snow off the dish. If taking this approach, be sure to mount clear into the studs, don't just secure to the siding.

And I'll jump on the bandwagon re constant reallignment being an indication that the dish was not installed securely enough. I've been with DirecTV since 1997, at three different houses, and the only time I needed realignment was when they swapped out my dish when converting to HD.

We just came through a severe ice storm (1.25-1.5" ice accumulation) that knocked out our power for over three days. When power came back, the DirecTV fired up and worked without a hitch. Our current installation is on a pole at the edge of a woods. There are still some heavy broken branches high overhead that could eventually fall on the dish. Should that happen, it's quite possible I'd need a realignment, I guess. Think I'll go out with a marker and mark all the current position settings ...


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## WestDC (Feb 9, 2008)

grunes said:


> We are considering changing from cable to Dish or DirectTV, to save money.
> 
> But one friend says that their satellite dish needs to be re-aligned after major storms, about once a month (in Maryland, near DC).
> 
> ...


We just got 23 " of snow + ice my dish Replaced in 2010 From older AU-9 is on a 24' High Roof - Only lost HD signals for 1 HR during the heavy Snow as it was building and sliding off the dish . Once the Sun comes up it heats up the dish and it remains clear - I have thought about adding an ICE Zapper every year but alas Now that it is spring and it should be another 4 yrs before we get this much snow again - I will not add it 

My Dish AU9 or Slimline once installed has never needed to be "re-ALigned" As stated if it is installed correctly the first time it should remain rock solid - unless a Tree limb falls on it or it is roughly handled when removing Snow or becomes bent from hitting it with a mower (Pole mounted) in the yard.-Which in my case would be hard to do.


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## Bill Broderick (Aug 25, 2006)

grunes said:


> We are considering changing from cable to Dish or DirectTV, to save money.
> 
> But one friend says that their satellite dish needs to be re-aligned after major storms, about once a month (in Maryland, near DC).
> 
> 1. What fraction of sat dish customers have this problem? Please confine responses to those areas that sometimes have thunderstorms, but rarely have truly extreme weather.


In the 18 years that I've had DirecTV on Long Island, I've needed only one realignment. This was caused by Hurricane Sandy in 2012. Actually, I didn't realize that I needed a realignment, because I still had a perfect picture after Sandy. The problem was that I started losing picture during rain or snow storms. I actually went nearly a year before having the dish realigned. This year, since my realignment, even with all of the snow that we've had in the northeast, I haven't lost picture once. The worst that it got was a couple of weeks ago during a large snow storm, I got some pixelization for a few seconds here and there.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

yep, sadly the days where customers used to lose signal due to a minor storm were the days where the customer themselves installed their own system. Now with DirecTV high standards, signal loss due to weather is highly mitigated


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

I bet improved dish design, better LNBs and higher quality cabling have made a wee difference.....


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

I agree on LNB but not dish and cabling, not so much. as VOS has tiredly said, any rain fain improvement must be done at the LNB


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## kenglish (Oct 2, 2004)

I have my dishes on the balcony, so they don't get too much snow ON them. Might get a dropout rarely, when the snow that's falling is very, very wet and dense. A little bit blowing on to them does no harm.
A big dish would be hard to aim and stabilize, but would have a lot of gain. A KU-band DBS service out of Australia used a 15-meter dish in California to receive the satellite signal from down-under, to relay to a U.S. domestic satellite, many years ago. They were far outside the footprint, to say the least.


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