# 612 Timer/Recording Issues



## pmsmith66 (Feb 13, 2003)

I have two 622's that have run perfectly for the past 2 years+. I added two 612's to the mix a few weeks ago and have been having some frustrating timer/recording problems on one of them. When I set a timer to record new episodes of a program, it will immediately appear on the guide as being set properly. However, the next morning, the timer will disappear from the program guide and, if it should have recorded, it will NOT have done so and the history will show that it was deleted by User 1. In a few instances, it will show that it was skipped. When I jump into the timer menu, it still appears as an active timer but, when I check the schedule going forward, no episodes appear as set to record even though new episodes are happening within the 9-day guide period.

The issue appears to be triggered overnight. I've found that, if I set a new timer, it will work properly IF the event happens the same day. Once it properly records that day's event, it then drops it going forward.

I assume I'm looking at an exchange but thought I'd run it by all of you to see if this has been seen before. I'm running L601. Thanks for any help you may have.


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## dbrakob (Apr 26, 2006)

I had the same exact issue with my 722 when I got Dish 12 months ago. No one at Dish could figure it out and they sent me a new 722. Same thing. Got a lot of useful info and theories on this forum but sadly nothing seemed to work. It was not too bad in my case as it only occurred on a few channels. Never figured out why it did this on some channels and not others. Most of the 7-8 channels it happened on were SD movie channels like HBO. Sorry to say I could not get it fixed no matter what I did so I just decided to live with it. Funny thing is about 2 months ago it stopped doing this and now everything works fine. I have no idea what happened but assume it was a software thing in some 722s that an update eventually fixed. Sorry to hear you are having the same problems. I would say try and get a replacement DVR and see if that helps.


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## pmsmith66 (Feb 13, 2003)

I arranged an exchange. I'll keep my fingers crossed on the replacement. Thanks.


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## lpmiller (Mar 8, 2007)

I'm currently having the same exact problem with my 622. It's only happening with certain shows. It's happens consistently with Sarah Connor, and now Kitchen Nightmares, which oddly enough is on the same channel.


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## pmsmith66 (Feb 13, 2003)

Thanks for that 622 update. Interestingly enough, my wife just walked into my office a few minutes ago and told me that one of our 622's is now having timer issues. The shows in question are Sarah Conner and Bones. Both are Fox shows. Hmmm. My new 612 came today and I'll set up a few timers and see what happens. I'm concerned because I haven't had a single problem with my 2 622's in well over a year. Could it somehow be guide related for Fox? I'll post again when I run a few tests.


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## IDRick (Feb 16, 2007)

lpmiller said:


> I'm currently having the same exact problem with my 622. It's only happening with certain shows. It's happens consistently with Sarah Connor, and now Kitchen Nightmares, which oddly enough is on the same channel.


Interesting. I'm a cable subscriber and use a motorola 6412 dvr. I use a series recording for Sarah Conner and the dvr misses about half the time. Occasionally happens with some other shows on FOX. Could be some issue on the FOX feed? :shrug:


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## lpmiller (Mar 8, 2007)

i'm not positive it's just fox. I just had to redo the timer for Ugly Betty, which I had set on the OTA, but it was blank. I set it for the regular channel, and so far it's holding. Oddly enough Sarah and Kitchen were on OTA.....but so is Gossip Girls (NOT MY SHOW) and that one is having no issue. It's not an issue with 2 shows at once, since other timers are working fine.

I've reset and done all of that....frankly it has me befuddled, and I too have never had problems with my 622 before. I do think it might to be a guide issue of some kind.


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## pmsmith66 (Feb 13, 2003)

After resetting timers for Sarah Conner and Bones (on my 622) last night, they disappeared completely this morning. They appear under the timer listings but they do not appear on the schedule or on the guide. Sarah was set OTA and Bones was set to Satellite. This has never happened until the last week. I have to believe this is happening to a LOT of people and they just haven't noticed it yet. There seems to be very little interest in this issue so far and that makes no sense to me. After more than a year of bullet proof performance, the 622 is acting poorly and the new 612 is also bad.


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## zedug (Oct 23, 2006)

the 612 and 622 (and 722 for that matter) are running the exact same software when it comes to timers.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Is everyone reporting this problem using some OTA timers even if you are losing both?


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## pmsmith66 (Feb 13, 2003)

phrelin said:


> Is everyone reporting this problem using some OTA timers even if you are losing both?


Nope. I have this happening with OTA and satellite.


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## lpmiller (Mar 8, 2007)

yeah, it seems that nightly shutdown/update check causes it to delete them. If you look under skipped timers, it will show them and say "Deleted by User1" and give you a blank timer.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Let me we word this differently. I don't have OTA and don't have the problem, yet. Does everyone who has the problem have OTA enabled? That may offer a clue when Dish tries to figure out what's wrong.


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## lpmiller (Mar 8, 2007)

So far, my unit seems to have stopped doing it. We'll see if it actually records Sarah tonight.


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## dbrakob (Apr 26, 2006)

phrelin said:


> Let me we word this differently. I don't have OTA and don't have the problem, yet. Does everyone who has the problem have OTA enabled? That may offer a clue when Dish tries to figure out what's wrong.


I have a 722 that did this for about 3 months and I do NOT have OTA.


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## pmsmith66 (Feb 13, 2003)

My 622 and 612 are still not working correctly. Timers for Bones and Sarah Conner (OTA) were dropped. The schedule log and the timer log don't show any indication they were ever there although the timers themselves still appear under the timer menu. Last week, when certain timers were skipped I got a message that said timer deleted by user 1 but NOT this time. I tried an idea suggested above and set two timers for Sarah using one OTA and the other Satellite. The OTA was dropped and the Satellite remains.

Has any known change (software) taken place lately that would/could cause this problem? As mentioned in an earlier post, my 622 had been PERFECT for 18 months prior to this. My new 612 has been problematic since I got it 2 weeks ago. I'm again surprised at the limited uproar about this. Is the effected number of users really this small?


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## dbrakob (Apr 26, 2006)

pmsmith66 said:


> Has any known change (software) taken place lately that would/could cause this problem? As mentioned in an earlier post, my 622 had been PERFECT for 18 months prior to this. My new 612 has been problematic since I got it 2 weeks ago. I'm again surprised at the limited uproar about this. Is the effected number of users really this small?


I think it must be very limited. When this happened to me about 12 months ago and lasted for 6 months I posted about once a month on this forum. Four times I had no responses and only twice I had one other person experiencing the same thing. Called Dish about it every month but they had no clue.


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## pmsmith66 (Feb 13, 2003)

dbrakob said:


> I think it must be very limited. When this happened to me about 12 months ago and lasted for 6 months I posted about once a month on this forum. Four times I had no responses and only twice I had one other person experiencing the same thing. Called Dish about it every month but they had no clue.


That's depressing news. I've taken the bullet-proof reliability of these things for granted for a long time now so this is HARD to accept. It reminds me of the early days of the 942 and even the 5xx series. Guess I'll just have to babysit them repeatedly until the smoke clears.


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## TulsaOK (Feb 24, 2004)

pmsmith66 said:


> That's depressing news. I've taken the bullet-proof reliability of these things for granted for a long time now so this is HARD to accept. It reminds me of the early days of the 942 and even the 5xx series. Guess I'll just have to babysit them repeatedly until the smoke clears.


I've learned there's a difference between "bullet-proof" and "dodging the bullet" when it comes to Dish's software. Things that affect some receivers, don't affect others of the same model. My 722 had been rock solid until recently. For no apparent reason, timers are screwed up, random reboots, etc. I had an issue whenever I created/modified a timer the unit would reset. That lasted about four days then went away. I still hold my breath when I set up a timer. It seems like Dish likes to spread the misery around so some of us don't feel left out.


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## ImBack234 (Aug 26, 2008)

TulsaOK said:


> It seems like Dish likes to spread the misery around so some of us don't feel left out.


But don't worry Dish will fix it "soon", or just give some other problems that are even more of a pain.


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## johnstred (Aug 8, 2005)

This happens to my timers set to the OTA and mapped down channels (for example OTA 014-01 and SAT 014-00. The timers are all there, but inside, the episodes disappear when I look at upcoming eps. It all works fine on the 6xxx channel numbers. This has now happened on shows Life, Bones, Boston legal.... so all networks, but again, only on local channels OTA and donw-mapped channel numbers..... by the way, I have a VIP622...


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## pmsmith66 (Feb 13, 2003)

Something potentially meaningful and certainly strange about the skipped/deleted timers and recordings. In reviewing the list of timers, I've noticed that when I highlight a satellite local timer (for example my local Fox station KMSP 009-0) it appears as channel number 1989. When I click on that timer, the channel # switches to 1891. When I cancel and go back one step, the channel number changes to 1907. It would seem this is a decent to clue to what's happening inside the brains of the DVR. I now this is probably hard to follow. If more explanation is needed, let me know.


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## lpmiller (Mar 8, 2007)

your saying the unit is changing the channel id, that's why the timers end up blank? Interesting.

Mine recorded everything just fine last night - heroes, Sarah, and gossip girls. I have no idea why it's working now. 

KMSP, huh? So you're local? Can't be just a local guide issue then, if mine is suddenly working.


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## Todd Nicholson (Jan 7, 2007)

I am seeing something very similar, and maybe is does have to do the map-down channels. I set up a dishpass to record Jeopardy on 004-00. If I create the timer to record from all channels, there are no issues. The episodes set to record show up in the timer list and in the guide. However, if I choose to record on a specific channel (in this case 004-00) and modify the timer, the timer displays, but all the scheduled episodes are blank and they don't show the record indicator in the guide. I will have to try again and choose the non mapped-down channel and see what happens.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

pmsmith66 said:


> Something potentially meaningful and certainly strange about the skipped/deleted timers and recordings. In reviewing the list of timers, I've noticed that when I highlight a satellite local timer (for example my local Fox station KMSP 009-0) it appears as channel number 1989. When I click on that timer, the channel # switches to 1891. When I cancel and go back one step, the channel number changes to 1907. It would seem this is a decent to clue to what's happening inside the brains of the DVR. I now this is probably hard to follow. If more explanation is needed, let me know.


Have you got your swap out yet? Be interesting if the problem is also in your new box. Is this reproducible from your side. Can you reproduce the steps. If so post them. Is it just that one channel and is that channel also OTA? Sorry I am a bit confused at the moment and trying to get a handle on exactly what you are experiencing and if it is localized to a particular pattern or channel.

If it is an OTA channel and you have the Dish HD. Try removing that channel and see if the problem disappears. Might be something in the OTA signal that is confusing the receiver.


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## johnstred (Aug 8, 2005)

It happened again on my 622.... I set a timer on Tuesday for CSI Miami for OTA local CBS. Looked good and showed next Monday's episode to be recorded in the timer and the guide. Next morning (yesterday) I checked the timer and it was empty, in the timer future episodes and in the program guide. However, the timer itself still is in my timer list, just empty with no upcoming episodes. I was hoping the new software - which I git a couple days ago - would have fixed this, but no..... Again, no problem with the locals in the 6xxxx range or any other satellite channels, just the local OTA and the mapped-down matching satellite ones... It has now happened on CBS, NBC, FOX and ABC... but NOT on CW which is ONLY available OTA in my market. Coincidence???


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## pmsmith66 (Feb 13, 2003)

Ron Barry said:


> Have you got your swap out yet? Be interesting if the problem is also in your new box. Is this reproducible from your side. Can you reproduce the steps. If so post them. Is it just that one channel and is that channel also OTA? Sorry I am a bit confused at the moment and trying to get a handle on exactly what you are experiencing and if it is localized to a particular pattern or channel.
> 
> If it is an OTA channel and you have the Dish HD. Try removing that channel and see if the problem disappears. Might be something in the OTA signal that is confusing the receiver.


Ron...yes, I received my swap receiver about a week ago and it's doing exactly the same things. I'll try to recreate this from the beginning. Before I start, yes, the problems are happening ONLY on my Fox local 009-00 KMSP.

1. I create a timer using either OTA Fox (009-1) or Satellite Fox (009-00). I select "new episodes."

2. The episodes will appear in the timer list, the guide and the schedule list (showing once or twice depending on whether they are occurring again within the next 9 days.

3. If the timer I just set happens to be for a show happening today it WILL record properly. However, if the show is not today, the timer magically disappears from the schedule. A couple of times it has appeared in the schedule as a timer event skipped by user 1. However, most of the time it simply disappears from the schedule and the guide. The timer itself still appears in the list of timers but it simply won't work.

I'll disable the OTA (as you requested) and see if this effects anything. As a reminder, this is also now happening with one of my 622's. The 622 in question has been great for a long time prior to this problem.

Please let me know if I can provide additional details.


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## johnstred (Aug 8, 2005)

Oh, i forgot to add: One more curious observation is that when I try to EDIT this broken/empty timer, the only two options available to me are NEW and ALL. All the properly working timers show all the options available in EDIT mode; i.e. weekday, weekly, etc....


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## pmsmith66 (Feb 13, 2003)

One strange but important point. I started with 2 622's and then added 2 612's a few weeks ago. One of the 622's is now having the above detailed problems while the other is working perfectly. Also, only one of the 612's is having the problems. I just checked the other one and it's perfect. It makes no sense to me.


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## lpmiller (Mar 8, 2007)

I would be curious to see if you have the problem with channel 5 OTA, as ugly betty also gave me this problem till I moved it to the mapdown channel.


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## pmsmith66 (Feb 13, 2003)

lpmiller said:


> I would be curious to see if you have the problem with channel 5 OTA, as ugly betty also gave me this problem till I moved it to the mapdown channel.


I'll set it up right now and give it a shot. I'll let you know if anything goes haywire tomorrow.

I've just set the timer for Ugly Betty OTA and it shows that we're good for tonight but it does NOT appear on the schedule or the guide for next week 10/2.


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

Could map-downs be part of the problem? No timer issues on either of my 622s with mapping not enabled for either local or national channels.


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## pmsmith66 (Feb 13, 2003)

BobaBird said:


> Could map-downs be part of the problem? No timer issues on either of my 622s with mapping not enabled for either local or national channels.


It certainly could be but the inconsistency of the symptoms is troubling. Why would one 622 suddenly get flaky at the exact same time I introduce 2 612's into the set-up. Then, only one of the two new 612's has the symptoms. I know DVR's can blow-up at any moment but the coincidental nature of this smells funny.


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## lpmiller (Mar 8, 2007)

well, in looking at my timers last night, I saw that the simpsons was empty. It was set to the mapdown of channel 9. I've redone it to the uh....map up I guess, we'll see if that sticks. I don't think OTA has anything to do with it at all, other than the software might be confusing it with the mapdown channel.


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## johnstred (Aug 8, 2005)

lpmiller said:


> well, in looking at my timers last night, I saw that the simpsons was empty. It was set to the mapdown of channel 9. I've redone it to the uh....map up I guess, we'll see if that sticks. I don't think OTA has anything to do with it at all, other than the software might be confusing it with the mapdown channel.


I think you may be right that the software is getting confused between the OTA and the mapdown channel. I never happens on the regular 6xxx channel and it does not happen on my CW OTA channel which does not have a satellite equivalent. BUT... it does happen on both, the OTA and the mapdown channel (i.e. 014-1 annd 014-0)


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## lpmiller (Mar 8, 2007)

yeah, it's not happening on my CW OTA either. Which actually kind of bites, because i hate gossip girls.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

pmsmith66 said:


> Ron...yes, I received my swap receiver about a week ago and it's doing exactly the same things. I'll try to recreate this from the beginning. Before I start, yes, the problems are happening ONLY on my Fox local 009-00 KMSP.
> 
> 1. I create a timer using either OTA Fox (009-1) or Satellite Fox (009-00). I select "new episodes."
> 
> ...


Is it only on that one channel or does it happen on other channels that are mapped down. I recorded on my map down channels all the time and have not noticed this so something else must be a contributing factor.


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## pmsmith66 (Feb 13, 2003)

Ron Barry said:


> Is it only on that one channel or does it happen on other channels that are mapped down. I recorded on my map down channels all the time and have not noticed this so something else must be a contributing factor.


Ron...timers on map down locals work perfectly EXCEPT for Fox (009-00). All timers OTA do not work. Non mapped-down (6xxx) are fine.


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## johnstred (Aug 8, 2005)

pmsmith66 said:


> Ron...timers on map down locals work perfectly EXCEPT for Fox (009-00). All timers OTA do not work. Non mapped-down (6xxx) are fine.


Same here....as of today, no OTA timers work if they have a satellite equivalent (in other words, the CW in Dallas is OK). I have tried "new episode", "all", "Once" etc., but the timers only work on the day they are created. Seems like they "break" during the nightly reboot. The bottom line... My ability to set three timers at the same time (2 SAT and 1 OTA) has now vanished from the DVR. Any word from DISH if they even have recognized this issue and are working on a fix?


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## pmsmith66 (Feb 13, 2003)

Still frustrated by the fact that ONE 612 and ONE 622 work fine while the other 612 and 622 show these odd symptoms. Hate to be stupid but how can Dish find a fix to something that impacts the receiver in such an odd, inconsistent way?


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Note a stupid question pmsmith66 and that is what makes software development so challenging at times. Finding the root cause is usually 80% or more of the work. 

As for if Dish knows. Not sure on this one.. But I suggest people experience to report the issue through proper Dish Channels. I personally have not seen this on either my 722 or 612 but I will take a closer look this week also. 

Like I always say. With problems like this that seem to affect in what appears to be a random pattern, providing as much details as possible is my recommendation so hopefully a pattern can emerge.


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## lpmiller (Mar 8, 2007)

Just to keep this going, I just had it happen again to a recording I set on the OTA for channel 11. Setting it to the non mapped down version of the channel fixed it.

So to recap, on my 622, recording on any OTA that has a matching Dish Map down channel will revert to a blank timer after the nightly shutoff. This is consistent on all OTA's with a mapdown. Channels that do not have a mapdown, like 23, do not currently have this problem.

Normal mapdown channels will do this too on timer recordings, though it's only consistent on Channel 9 mapdown, it seems only occasional on the other channels (have had it happen on 5 and 11, but not on 4, and only once on 5 and 11, other timers are working just fine. 

Timers on the non mapdown channels appear to have no issues. 

This issue was first noticed with the premiere of Sarah Connor, so I'm not sure if it was there before and I'm just noticing it with the fall TV sced or what. 

It has happened to me once on the HBO HD mapdown, but only once.

Work arounds include using the non mapdown channel, or doing same day recordings on mapdowns/OTA channels.


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## johnstred (Aug 8, 2005)

lpmiller said:


> Just to keep this going, I just had it happen again to a recording I set on the OTA for channel 11. Setting it to the non mapped down version of the channel fixed it.
> 
> So to recap, on my 622, recording on any OTA that has a matching Dish Map down channel will revert to a blank timer after the nightly shutoff. This is consistent on all OTA's with a mapdown. Channels that do not have a mapdown, like 23, do not currently have this problem.
> 
> ...


Perfect summary.... I am experiencing this exactly as stated here in Dallas on my 622!


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## ChuckA (Feb 7, 2006)

johnstred said:


> Perfect summary.... I am experiencing this exactly as stated here in Dallas on my 622!


While my 622 in Dallas works just fine. Just throwing that out for a contrasting point of view. So, it would seem to be hardware dependent.


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## johnstred (Aug 8, 2005)

ChuckA said:


> While my 622 in Dallas works just fine. Just throwing that out for a contrasting point of view. So, it would seem to be hardware dependent.


I wonder.... I have had the 622 almost since day one and these problems only started once software version 6.xx was coming out... By the way, DISH tech support had no clue what to do on the phone, and tech support email has yet to respond to my inquiry 5 days ago...


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## pmsmith66 (Feb 13, 2003)

lpmiller's summary continues to be exactly what I'm seeing here on one 612 and one 622. The other 612 and 622 continue to perform perfectly.


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## ChuckA (Feb 7, 2006)

johnstred said:


> I wonder.... I have had the 622 almost since day one and these problems only started once software version 6.xx was coming out... By the way, DISH tech support had no clue what to do on the phone, and tech support email has yet to respond to my inquiry 5 days ago...


My 622 was installed 2-25-2006, a few weeks after they became available. That was the first install date I could get when GA date hit.


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## lpmiller (Mar 8, 2007)

It could be a simple matter of a *slightly* corrupted update. It could be a matter of revision changes in the hardware. It could be a flaky line of code triggered by certain preferences/settings that some have and some don't. That's software for you. That's why bugs can be such a #$%[email protected] to track down.


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## johnstred (Aug 8, 2005)

lpmiller said:


> It could be a simple matter of a *slightly* corrupted update. It could be a matter of revision changes in the hardware. It could be a flaky line of code triggered by certain preferences/settings that some have and some don't. That's software for you. That's why bugs can be such a #$%[email protected] to track down.


I totally understand. I work in software development. However, the problem is that a major part of the functionality as to why I own a ViP622 does not work for me anymore and nobody at DISH wants to acknowledge this problem or offer a solution.....


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## bavaria72 (Jun 10, 2004)

My 622 started doing the exact same thing as PMSMITH66's about 6 weeks ago. After working with Dish they sent me a replacement 622. It functioned fine until last week and it is now doing the same thing as my first one (not recording shows even though the timer is set.) And like ChuckA I am in Dallas. I deleted all of the timers, did a factory reset but it is doing the same thing. My other 622 is running fine. If I don't power off the 622 it will record the show. Software load is L614. Any word for E*? - Art


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

lpmiller said:


> Timers on the non mapdown channels appear to have no issues.


As anyone tried turning on Map downs and see if the issue goes away. So far I have not personally been able to try and reproduce this though I have not had a lot of time to try. Turning off mapdowns might provide workaround and might be worth a try until they track down this issue.

I do use a lot of map downs and have a lot of channels locked that are part of a map down so I would have expected to run into this one.

Lets get a rollcall of the people experiencing this and how they run their Vip receivers. 
Dual or Single Mode? 
How many Timer and Timer events do you have configured in your system?
Do you have Over the Air Channels? 
What Map Down and Programs is this reproducible on (Be specific).


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## pmsmith66 (Feb 13, 2003)

Ron Barry said:


> As anyone tried turning on Map downs and see if the issue goes away. So far I have not personally been able to try and reproduce this though I have not had a lot of time to try. Turning off mapdowns might provide workaround and might be worth a try until they track down this issue.
> 
> I do use a lot of map downs and have a lot of channels locked that are part of a map down so I would have expected to run into this one.
> 
> ...


1. 622 operates in Single Mode (this is obviously a mute point on the 612)

2. # of timers currently set on the 622 is 23. The 612 currently has 11 timers set.

3. Yes, I have OTA on both

4. This is reproducible on all OTA's with a map-down. It's a consistent problem on 009-00 only thus far. The specific shows are Fringe, Sarah Conner, and Bones. It HAS happened on 005-00 for Ugly Betty and on 011-00 with The Office although with no consistency. I haven't tried it on 0004-00. If it would be helpful, I'd be happy to go back and test a bunch of different timers this week.


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## lpmiller (Mar 8, 2007)

1) single mode

2) 25 timers 

3) Yes

4) Sarah, Ugly Betty, just had it happen with my timer for Samatha Who. Timers that have worked suddenly stop working as their new shows start to run.


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## johnstred (Aug 8, 2005)

Ron Barry said:


> As anyone tried turning on Map downs and see if the issue goes away. So far I have not personally been able to try and reproduce this though I have not had a lot of time to try. Turning off mapdowns might provide workaround and might be worth a try until they track down this issue.
> 
> I do use a lot of map downs and have a lot of channels locked that are part of a map down so I would have expected to run into this one.
> 
> ...


ViP622
1. Single Mode
2. 45 Timers
3. OTA YES
4. Network Channels only: HD on ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX without exception, no problems with CW which has NO satellite equivalent. Happens all the time on the mapped down versions AND OTA (example 014-01 OTA AND 014-00 SAT). All work fine in the 6xxx range.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

One question I forgot to put in the call out. What type of timer are you using for these events that show the issue and if it is a specific channel type timer what channel is it set for? Is it set for the map down 011-00 for example or the original location of the channel 6346 for example or perhaps the OTA slot.


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## johnstred (Aug 8, 2005)

Ron Barry said:


> One question I forgot to put in the call out. What type of timer are you using for these events that show the issue and if it is a specific channel type timer what channel is it set for? Is it set for the map down 011-00 for example or the original location of the channel 6346 for example or perhaps the OTA slot.


Standard timer I have always used for "New Episodes". I have tried it on mapped down SAT channel and it breaks. I have tried it on OTA channels and it breaks. I now have them all set on 6xxx and they all work fine. I have also experimented with "All Episodes", with "Weekly" even with "Once"; after the night reboot, they all break unless 6xxx is being used. Finally, I have even tried a DISHPass for the OTA channel and it breaks as well.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Excellent Info johnstred. I will see if I can reproduce this one but I know that I have timers set for locals (map down) and I have not noticed this issue.


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## pmsmith66 (Feb 13, 2003)

johnstred said:


> Standard timer I have always used for "New Episodes". I have tried it on mapped down SAT channel and it breaks. I have tried it on OTA channels and it breaks. I now have them all set on 6xxx and they all work fine. I have also experimented with "All Episodes", with "Weekly" even with "Once"; after the night reboot, they all break unless 6xxx is being used. Finally, I have even tried a DISHPass for the OTA channel and it breaks as well.


This is exactly what I have as well.


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## tpag2000 (Oct 26, 2006)

Throw another 622 from Dallas into the pile! I started noticing this same issue with OTA tuners when the Fall season started, not sure when it actually started. My first problem was with House on Fox, 4-01. I know others said they hadn't seen this on 4.

Has anyone had any success in getting Dish to "fix" their issue (ie send them a new box or something)?

I'll try some different scenarios tonight based on what I've read in this thread and I'll post what I'm able to replicate.

- Tim


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## pmsmith66 (Feb 13, 2003)

tpag2000...I exchanged a 612 with this set of problems and the new one has the exact same problems.


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## gilroykilroy (Oct 3, 2008)

622. 60+ timers. No OTA. Dual mode so two shows can be recorded at once.

Deleting a timer that matches anything (recordable or not) will freeze/reboot the system. Some timers appear not to be recording shows for no apparent reason. Some shows are getting recorded for no apparent reason.

Only started happening in the past few weeks (guess when 6.13/6.14 was introduced.)

Wifey is _extremely_ frustrated and considering switching to DirectTV (they any better?)

[Edit - Did some peeking over at the DTV side of the forum: "Sick of this product. sick sick sick. Go with Dish if you have a choice, at least until the new DTV Tivo is released next year!" Guess the grasss isn't any greener over there and they have their share of issues as well. ]


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

GilroyKilroy. How many DishPasses do you have and how many Timer events are showing up (Press DVR twice to see the number of timer events).


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## bavaria72 (Jun 10, 2004)

Hey tpag2000, I also had E* send me a replacement box (just like pmsmith66) and it is now doing the same thing as the old box. I do find it interesting that my other 622, which does not have OTA, is having no issues. Going to check out the OTA vs. 6XXX thing tonight.


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## bavaria72 (Jun 10, 2004)

I have gone back thru my DVR and have reset all of my timers using the 6xxx channels. It is very much looking like the issue is with the OTA channels. I will power up my 622 tomorrow morning and see if the timers are still there. Hopefully this will prove out the issue is with the OTA channels and the timers. - Art


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## gilroykilroy (Oct 3, 2008)

Ron Barry said:


> GilroyKilroy. How many DishPasses do you have and how many Timer events are showing up (Press DVR twice to see the number of timer events).


61 DishPasses and 27 DVR Events (89 total).

The constant resets make trying to get rid of some the old ones virtually impossible.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

GilroyKilroy, 

I think I know what your problem is. Too many DishPasses and you might be running into a bug that Dish did not test for given that normal use case is to have less than 10 Dish Passes. 

Why the 61? Are you using Dish Passes for everything? If you record season shows like Hereos you should be using ALL and New episode Timers. Dish Passes are more processor intensive and should be used for hunting for shows based on a key word or phrase. 61 of those is a lot of processing and my guess is that it is taken too long to complete the operations and is causing the box to reboot. Yes.. there should be code in there to protect against this issue, but you might want to rethink your recording strategy and if you have any season type timers use All New or the weekly or daily timers.

As for timers and events.. You don't add them. Timers are the scheduling algorithms of the VIP receivers. There are different types of scheduling algorithms (Weekly, Daily, Dish Pass, All, New, etc). Timer Events are the result of these algorithms being applied to the EPG. The limits are 96 timers and 576 Timer events. However, based no my experience I think the expectation is that DishPasses will make up a small percentage of the timer mix.


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## lpmiller (Mar 8, 2007)

pmsmith66 said:


> This is exactly what I have as well.


me three.


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## gilroykilroy (Oct 3, 2008)

Ron Barry said:


> GilroyKilroy,
> 
> I think I know what your problem is. Too many DishPasses and you might be running into a bug that Dish did not test for given that normal use case is to have less than 10 Dish Passes.
> 
> ...


My wife is big on finding shows that either:

1) Contain certain keywords she is interested in;
2) Some old TV shows that syndicate on some occasions but no idea where/when;
3) Some specific episodes of missed shows;
4) Shows that contain specific people.

Hence all those dishpass timers. For series shows we do use DVR timers.

Not expecting versus not allowing so many DishPass timers are really two different issues. If the software really can't handle that may it should limit them. If the limit is 96 timers then they should test for 96 DishPass timers, no?

I will pass on the suggestion to reduce the amount of DishPass timers along.

Thanks.

P.S. I'm in SW Engineering myself. In my organization QA *always* tests the "edge cases" and will file a ship stopping bug if they cause a crash.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

gilroykilroy said:


> My wife is big on finding shows that either:
> 
> 1) Contain certain keywords she is interested in;
> 2) Some old TV shows that syndicate on some occasions but no idea where/when;
> ...


I am a software developer too and I agree that this use case should have been tested and this is just a guess given that there was an issue previously where someone had around 40 Dish Passes and when they reduced them to 30 the problems disappeared. I personally have not heard of anyone having 61 Dish Passes created since the 622 was released so that is the first place I would look. Drop it down to 30 and see if your problems go away and the box becomes more responsive.

If this is the case, I think they need to put a limit on the Dish Pass creation to prevent this from happening because you are right. If they allow the configuration it should perform.

Like I said above.. Ofcourse this is just my guess and you could be running into something else but until you drop the count down it will be hard to tell if this is the issue you are seeing.

So am is the 81 number the number of actual timers (Dish Pass + other timers) or was 29 really the timer events. The usually use case is around 30 to 50 timers and 300 to 400 timer events so I just want to make sure the numbers are right.


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## tpag2000 (Oct 26, 2006)

So I tried a couple of tests last night to see if I could confirm/duplicate the conditions that I and others have reported.

My current setup is:
Single mode
Shared view enabled
16 timers
0 Dish Passes

I then tried adding timers by selecting the show from the guide and telling it to record ALL episodes. Just as some others have said, if an OTA channel also has a mapped down HD version then the OTA channel will not setup a recurring timer properly. Specifically for me, it will show a single event in the timer details for the very next instance of the show but it does not find any other upcoming events/episodes. If the OTA does NOT have a mapped down HD version then the timers work just as you'd expect.

Here are the full details on what I tried (note, I just picked some shows at random that I knew had multiple instances available). After creating each timer I would delete it and go on to the next test.

Knight Rider, 5-01, ALL -> Only found 1st instance
Knight Rider, 5-00 HD, ALL -> Found all instances
Access Hollywood, 4-01, ALL -> Only found 1st instance
Access Hollywood, 4-00 HD, ALL -> Found all instances
Pushing Daisies, 8-01, ALL -> Only found 1st instance
Pushing Daisies, 8-00 HD, ALL -> Found all instances
Secrets of the Dead, 13-01, ALL -> Found all instances (Does NOT have DishHD channel available/mapped down)
Secrets of the Dead, 13-00 SD, ALL -> Found all instances
King of the Hill, 27-01, ALL -> Found all instances (Does NOT have DishHD channel available/mapped down)
King of the Hill, 27-00 SD, ALL -> Found all instances

For all shows there was either and event that would record the same day or the very next day.

- Tim


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## gilroykilroy (Oct 3, 2008)

Ron Barry said:


> So am is the 81 number the number of actual timers (Dish Pass + other timers) or was 29 really the timer events. The usually use case is around 30 to 50 timers and 300 to 400 timer events so I just want to make sure the numbers are right.


81 was the actual number of total timers. I've asked my wife to reduce them to see what happens.


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## bbomar (Oct 18, 2004)

tpag2000 said:


> I then tried adding timers by selecting the show from the guide and telling it to record ALL episodes. Just as some others have said, if an OTA channel also has a mapped down HD version then the OTA channel will not setup a recurring timer properly. Specifically for me, it will show a single event in the timer details for the very next instance of the show but it does not find any other upcoming events/episodes. If the OTA does NOT have a mapped down HD version then the timers work just as you'd expect.
> 
> Here are the full details on what I tried (note, I just picked some shows at random that I knew had multiple instances available). After creating each timer I would delete it and go on to the next test.
> 
> ...


I have exactly this same problem in the Nashville DMA on both my 622 and 722. Both receivers are in the single mode running L614. I was having problems with timers getting set so I deleted all timers before performing tests on both receivers. If there is only an SD satellite equivalent of an OTA channel then the OTA (channel # - 01) timer sets correctly, finding all instances. If there is an HD satellite equivalent of an OTA channel (ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX in Nashville) then the OTA timer finds only one instance. It does not matter whether I map down the HD satellite channels or not. Timers that I set for ABC, NBC, CBS, or FOX OTA channels that I get from outside my DMA in Huntsville, AL and Chattanooga set correctly, finding all instances. All satellite channel timers seem to work correctly and find all instances.

I am not sure when this problem first surfaced since I was not regularly setting timers over the summer. However, the problem did not exist during the last television season.


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## johnstred (Aug 8, 2005)

bbomar said:


> I am not sure when this problem first surfaced since I was not regularly setting timers over the summer. However, the problem did not exist during the last television season.


Same here... I was not setting any new timers over summer, so I noticed these OTA problems & disappearing episodes from timers once the fall season started. By then, we were all on 6.xx software, so I do believe this is software related. However, even after numerous calls and emails to tech support, DISH has no solution other than send a replacement unit.


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## TulsaOK (Feb 24, 2004)

johnstred said:


> ... DISH has no solution other than send a replacement unit.


That's Dish's version of punting.


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## johnstred (Aug 8, 2005)

New info: When I set an OTA timer and chose "Weekly", it sticks! Which kind of goes in line when I mentioned earlier that when you try to edit one of the broken OTA timers, only the choices "new" and All" are available. So this is a small workaround when you do need an OTA timer, but with limitations.


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## bavaria72 (Jun 10, 2004)

Is there any update on this issue? Timers work fine when recording the 6000 channels, OTA recording does not go even though the timer is still there after 622 has been powered off for approx 2 hours. 23 timers set. - Art


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

This one is odd. I have tried to reproduce this one and so far I have not been successful. Wonder if it might happen to be location based.


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## johnstred (Aug 8, 2005)

bavaria72 said:


> Is there any update on this issue? Timers work fine when recording the 6000 channels, OTA recording does not go even though the timer is still there after 622 has been powered off for approx 2 hours. 23 timers set. - Art


bavaria72 - I am in Plano and I have successfully made OTA timers stick if I set the option to "WEEKLY". NEW and ALL don't work on OTA with the issues listed within this thread. As you mentioned, 6xxx channels work fine with all options..... Give "WEEKLY" it a try and report back!


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## dishlover2 (Aug 24, 2008)

wpix 11 part of the superstations package i record cw 11 news at ten just fine during the week weekends it appears to be preempted stating incorrect event i over ride the skipped timer and its records just fine channels 234/8104 im


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## pmsmith66 (Feb 13, 2003)

Ron Barry said:


> This one is odd. I have tried to reproduce this one and so far I have not been successful. Wonder if it might happen to be location based.


My concern, again, about the location based theory is that it seems to be only partially accurate. Given that I have 4 DVR boxes and only 2 of them have the odd behavior, something else has to be in play.

By the way...changing timers to "weekly" does work for me. However, this isn't a great long-term solution.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Good Work around Pmsmith though I agree it is not ideal.. I was not aware that you had 4 DVRS with two only showing the issue. Are they all Vip 722 and Vip 622s?


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## pmsmith66 (Feb 13, 2003)

Ron Barry said:


> Good Work around Pmsmith though I agree it is not ideal.. I was not aware that you had 4 DVRS with two only showing the issue. Are they all Vip 722 and Vip 622s?


Ron...I have two 622's and 2 new (as of two months ago) 612's. As a quick history, my 622's have been in the house for over 18 months...maybe as long as two years. I really don't remember. Both 622's were essentially bullet-proof for me...particularly for the period from roughly June 2007 through June 2008. When i added the new 612's (right around early September or maybe late August) is when things got weird. One 612 is perfect and the other has the reported symptoms. One 622 is perfect and the other now has the reported symptoms.

Some have commented that they aren't certain when the trouble started. I agree. I wasn't doing a lot of recording on network channels over the summer so i didn't see the problems until Fall. So, i can't say that it happened after a certain S/W download. All I know is that it only impacts 50% of my hardware.

The "record weekly" fix has made the problem less of a total headache but I'd certainly like to see things corrected at the root.


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## drmckenzie (Aug 28, 2007)

I am also having the timer problem with my 722. SciFi Atlantis (HD channel) may or may not record, and if it does, it shows up as "deleted" in the activity list....


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## lpmiller (Mar 8, 2007)

are you recording it on the map down channel of sci fi? Try setting the timer on the 9xxx address for it.


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## bavaria72 (Jun 10, 2004)

I used the weekly timer to record an OTA show this week (NBC's "Hero's") and it worked. As you say not a perfect solution but it does work. I find it interesting that some people are having the dump timer issue on OTA only channels while others are having it on sat channels. I had this issue on my original 622 and also on the replacement - both were connected to an OTA antenna (no amp). But I have no problems with my other 622 which is not hooked up to an OTA antenna.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

drmckenzie said:


> I am also having the timer problem with my 722. SciFi Atlantis (HD channel) may or may not record, and if it does, it shows up as "deleted" in the activity list....


This does not sound like the timer issue others are reporting. The issue people are reporting here is that timer events are actually disappearing or not showing up on the Timer.

I would check to see if your timer is mapped down and if it is move it as the other poster suggested. If you are seeing things being deleted after the fact or timers being deleted randomly I would change my remote address and see if the problem goes away.

You might be running into this issue, but your symptoms sound a bit different so I would rule out possibility of your neighbor having the same remote addy and I would suggest taking a closer look at why your events are not recording.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

pmsmith66 said:


> Ron...I have two 622's and 2 new (as of two months ago) 612's. As a quick history, my 622's have been in the house for over 18 months...maybe as long as two years. I really don't remember. Both 622's were essentially bullet-proof for me...particularly for the period from roughly June 2007 through June 2008. When i added the new 612's (right around early September or maybe late August) is when things got weird. One 612 is perfect and the other has the reported symptoms. One 622 is perfect and the other now has the reported symptoms.
> 
> Some have commented that they aren't certain when the trouble started. I agree. I wasn't doing a lot of recording on network channels over the summer so i didn't see the problems until Fall. So, i can't say that it happened after a certain S/W download. All I know is that it only impacts 50% of my hardware.
> 
> The "record weekly" fix has made the problem less of a total headache but I'd certainly like to see things corrected at the root.


WOW.. that is strange... I am suprised that you are seeing this on one box but not the other and they are the same models (622). Have you verified this by setting the exact same timer that is exhibiting this issue on both boxes?

I still have yet to see this on my 722 thought I have plenty of timers on map downs and on OTA channels.


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## pmsmith66 (Feb 13, 2003)

Ron Barry said:


> WOW.. that is strange... I am suprised that you are seeing this on one box but not the other and they are the same models (622). Have you verified this by setting the exact same timer that is exhibiting this issue on both boxes?
> 
> I still have yet to see this on my 722 thought I have plenty of timers on map downs and on OTA channels.


Yes. I've tested the exact timers and it's clear the boxes operate differently.


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## casolorz (Oct 25, 2006)

I just noticed my DVR missed yet another event on Monday. It even shows it as recorded, this is really p***ing me off, thank god I don't have a contract with dish.


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## bavaria72 (Jun 10, 2004)

Hi casolorz - is your box screwing up the timers for OTA channels or sat channels? The "weekly" timer fix that pmsmith66 came up with seems to temporarily fixed the issue for my box. - Art


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## casolorz (Oct 25, 2006)

bavaria72 said:


> Hi casolorz - is your box screwing up the timers for OTA channels or sat channels? The "weekly" timer fix that pmsmith66 came up with seems to temporarily fixed the issue for my box. - Art


Well it seems like its screwing up for OTA timers sort of. 
On this last case I had "How I met your mother" set to record on the OTA with a higher priority than the SAT, so I had both. I knew the OTA would miss it because it had a conflict with something else which is why I've always had the SAT schedule too. In this particular case I saw the OTA get skipped while the other OTA shows recorded that same day, and I saw that the SAT show "recorded" however it didn't, its nowhere to be found. Its about the third time where a show shows as recorded on the history but on the list its nowhere to be found. 
One time with Fringe (before I canceled the timer) I saw it being recorded on the guide and on the history while the show was on but at that same time it was nowhere to be found on the list. 
I am really tired of this last version of the DVR software, I've had dish for a while and always been really happy but I don't know if I'll give them past the end of the month before calling directv.


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## ImBack234 (Aug 26, 2008)

casolorz said:


> I am really tired of this last version of the DVR software, I've had dish for a while and always been really happy but I don't know if I'll give them past the end of the month before calling directv.


Well hope you don't want a DVR from D*.:eek2:


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## casolorz (Oct 25, 2006)

ImBack234 said:


> Well hope you don't want a DVR from D*.:eek2:


I haven't read about the directv dvr yet, don't tell me its worse than the 6.14 update?


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## ImBack234 (Aug 26, 2008)

casolorz said:


> I haven't read about the directv dvr yet, don't tell me its worse than the 6.14 update?


 
They should pay you for being a beta tester.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

pmsmith66 said:


> Yes. I've tested the exact timers and it's clear the boxes operate differently.


Hmmm.. Good piece of info though I am not sure what it means. Either can be hardware related though I don't see how Timer scheduling and missing timers could be related to hardware or possible something along the way got corrupted for some.

I fear this is going to be tough one to track down.

*Moderator Note*
Starting to wonder off topic. Please stay on topic and the topic of this thread is the timer issue.


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## johnstred (Aug 8, 2005)

Ron Barry said:


> Hmmm.. Good piece of info though I am not sure what it means. Either can be hardware related though I don't see how Timer scheduling and missing timers could be related to hardware or possible something along the way got corrupted for some.
> 
> I fear this is going to be tough one to track down.


Ron, one clue that must be mentioned again is the fact that THE CW OTA channel does not have this problem problem ("Gossip Girl" records fine on OTA with "New" set). There is no SAT equivalent for this in Dallas. AND, the regular 6xxx channels work. This tells me that the problem is the way the SAT channels are mapped down to match the OTA channels; 
014-00 = mapped down SAT channel; and 
014-01 = OTA channel which has the problem.....

I would think this creates some sort of software conflict that results in the problem discussed here.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Totally agree johnstred.. but if that is the case and that was the commonality with peoples experiences then pmsmith should see it on both boxes unless only one has OTA in connected. pmsmith, is that the case? Also, There are a lot of people that are not seeing this issue (me being one) that has a 722 and have a number of OTA timers of this nature.

That is what has me scratching my head.


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## TulsaOK (Feb 24, 2004)

My 722 had been deleting timers on my OTA channel 5 (FOX). I set up the timers to record the World Series. I got a conflict and chose the option to move the timer to the top of the list thereby blowing anything in the way away. It skipped the OTA timers that were conflicting and automatically restored the satellite counterparts. This is why I have two timers for my local channels. I checked and everything seemed to be in order a couple of hours prior to the game. When I checked to see what was recording at around 8:20, the timer for the WS had been deleted and the OTA timers restored. There was nothing in the history that would indicate that the timer had ever been created. This is starting to happen on a regular basis. I wish Dish would declare a moratorium on any future "enhancements" and concentrate on making their current software work. This happens with every release. One step forward, two steps back. I can not believe this stuff gets tested prior to release.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

TulsaOK are you saying you have two timers created for the same event. One OTA and HD Sat? Is 
other people that are having this issue also do the same thing? 

I am going to have to play with this over the weekend, but last time I tried to create an OTA timer with a higher Priority and use the HD Sat timer as a back up for the same event I got unpredictable results and in most case both would not show up. 

Other people (Rob for example) had better luck but when I played with this in the 4.49 time frame I ran into issues so we might be talking about two things here. It definitely did not handle the use case of OTA as primary with HD Sat as back up well.


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## TulsaOK (Feb 24, 2004)

Ron Barry said:


> TulsaOK are you saying you have two timers created for the same event. One OTA and HD Sat? Is
> other people that are having this issue also do the same thing?


No, only the one timer was set to record the World Series game.


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## bavaria72 (Jun 10, 2004)

Hi Ron,

My issues are just like johnstred. Fox, NSC, ABC, and CBS OTA will not record even though the timer is set with the highest priority. And just like johnstred the CW OTA has no problems (the timer work fine.) I have created timers for the same show on both OTA (record all new) and SAT (record all new) (Hero's on NBC). The SAT ones fires off no issue while the OTA ones fails (if I don't power off teh 622 the timer does not fail). However using the pmsmith66 work around creating an OTA timer (record weekly) and SAT timer (record all new) for Hero's they both work fine at the same time. 

What makes this even stranger is that this issue started on my original 622 (that had been bullet proof) about 3 months ago. E* sent me a replacement and that 622 work fine for about 3 weeks and then started doing the same thing as the one I replaced. Find it interesting that for several people it is only failing OTA on the “big” four networks. Maybe time for a poll! - Art


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## bbomar (Oct 18, 2004)

bavaria72 said:


> Hi Ron,
> 
> My issues are just like johnstred. Fox, NSC, ABC, and CBS OTA will not record even though the timer is set with the highest priority. And just like johnstred the CW OTA has no problems (the timer work fine.)


In my case this OTA timer issue only happens with channels that have a satellite HD counterpart, which happens to be FOX, NBC, ABC, and CBS in Nashville, and I only have one timer set. Any other OTA channel does not have a problem, even if there is an SD satellite equivalent. I also get the FOX, NBC, ABC, and CBS network channels OTA from Huntsville AL which is outside my DMA. They have satellite guide data since they are carried (but not in HD), even though I can't subscribe. All types of OTA timers for these channels work fine which reinforces my theory that the problem has to do with whether there is a satellite HD equivalent.

Setting the OTA timer to weekly does succeed as a workaround in my case.


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## pmsmith66 (Feb 13, 2003)

Ron Barry said:


> Totally agree johnstred.. but if that is the case and that was the commonality with peoples experiences then pmsmith should see it on both boxes unless only one has OTA in connected. pmsmith, is that the case? Also, There are a lot of people that are not seeing this issue (me being one) that has a 722 and have a number of OTA timers of this nature.
> 
> That is what has me scratching my head.


Nope...I have OTA on all four boxes.


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## sfatula (Jul 17, 2007)

Count me in too with the problem. If I go to Dallas local 04-01, and, say record all new news broadcasts at 10PM. Obviously, this happens every night. So, I should record one program each day. After creating the timer for NEW, I go back into the timers screen display the future and what will be recorded, it ONLY shows one program todays. NO future programs show on the list, whether skipped or not. Works fine if I use channel 04-00, the DISH local. 

DISH just did replace the 622, and, the replacement does the exact same thing, no change.

So, I can't use OTA timers, it used to work around 6 months ago.


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## johnstred (Aug 8, 2005)

Spoke to a rep at Technical Support for the third time.... DISH claims they are still unaware of this problem and that it has never been reported by anyone.... Wow.... that's all I can say.


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## CoolGui (Feb 9, 2006)

Does anyone know if/how this was resolved? Some others are seeing the same issue:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2066118


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## sfatula (Jul 17, 2007)

Still does not work for me. Seems to have been ignored, and I also reported to DISH. DISH also said they never heard of the problem.


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## djlong (Jul 8, 2002)

My issue lately has been a couple of freezes and strange religious programming being recorded in the wee hours of the morning - from spontaneously generated timers.


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