# You have to be kidding me! What's happened to Dish!



## mattmcg

Man....

I've been a customer for years and currently use a DVR 721. I just recently started looking at upgrading my DVR to get something with "name based recording" capability but after contacting Dish to see what my options were, I was astounded at the complexity, expense, and lack of options!!!!

1. First off, as an existing customer, they would not sell/lease a 625 to me! What am I supposed to do, cancel my service and have my wife sign up under a new account? (boy that sure is a waste of time)
2. Second, they would charge me a DVR fee of $4.98 (I'm using the Top 120 now)
3. Third, they would charge me a 2nd room fee since I didn't have my PVR plugged into a wall socket (my family is all cellular based without a POTS line). 
4. With a new account, they would then charge a $5 leasing fee.

This complexity and nickel and diming bull**it is extremely annoying! What ever happened to the "pay for your equipment and subscribe to service" or "lease your equipment with a long term commitment and subscribe to service" methodologies to keep everything simple, clean, and uncomplicated!

I think the effort to keep costs artificially low on the subscription packages has forced Dish to monetize other areas that seem to increase the fee structure in total and increase complexity. Also the fact that there is a new versus existing customer bias is completely out of whack! I hadn't thought about cancelling and switching to DirectTV or back to digital cable in a while but now I'm giving it a second look.

Charlie!!!! What has your company come too!!!!?????


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## lvkewlkid

everybody gets the DVR fee of $4.98 on DVRs later than the 721, D* makes it 5.99, so your getting a bargain with dish.

its not E*'s fault you dont have a landline, I dont understand why people dont have them anymore, say the cell phone dies or a tower goes down, then what do you do?

Usually the first receiver's $5 leasing fee is included with the programming, any receiver after the first is charged the $5 a month.


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## mattmcg

lvkewlkid said:


> everybody gets the DVR fee of $4.98 on DVRs later than the 721, D* makes it 5.99, so your getting a bargain with dish.


-Not that big of a bargain! A $1.01!



> its not E*'s fault you dont have a landline, I dont understand why people dont have them anymore, say the cell phone dies or a tower goes down, then what do you do?


-I call on another cell phone in my family. Plus, cell phones can use multiple towers so if one goes down, I have the ability to connect to another in the same vicinity. I think this is E*'s short-sightedness that they request an antiquated land line connection to synchronize with their service. Jeez, get with the 21st century and include an ethernet link and run this over the internet!



> Usually the first receiver's $5 leasing fee is included with the programming, any receiver after the first is charged the $5 a month.


-Not true. It's included only for their AE package but $5 for any package lower than that.

Frankly, the other thing that ticks me off is that to upgrade my 721 to a 522 (which they won't even activate a 625 as an existing customer) just to get the name based recording (which was promised on my 721 anyway) will cost me another $5 per month. Complete hogwash..............


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## RAD

lvkewlkid said:


> everybody gets the DVR fee of $4.98 on DVRs later than the 721, D* makes it 5.99, so your getting a bargain with dish.


D* charges $4.99 for their DVR fee, so they're even. D* however charges it as a one time fee, no matter how many DVR's you have vs. E* charges $4.99 per DVR that requires the fee.


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## jtravel

mattmcg said:


> -
> 
> -Not true. It's included only for their AE package but $5 for any package lower than that.
> 
> ........


Your getting your fees mixed-up alittle.

The lease fee on the first Receiver Is included in AT60 and up. 
Each additional receiver has a $5 lease fee.

Each DVR receiver has a $4.99 fee.
If you Have AEP then the DVR fees are waived.


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## boba

DVR fees: DISH Notwerk charges $4.98 per DVR on all new DVRs 501/508 & 721 are exempt.
Directv charges $4.99 per account for customers before 8/1/05. After 8/1/05 the DVR fee increased to $5.99 per account.
Both services drop the DVR fees on the maximum programming packages.


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## RAD

boba said:


> Directv charges $4.99 per account for customers before 8/1/05. After 8/1/05 the DVR fee increased to $5.99 per account.


Thanks for that info, didn't know they raised the price.


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## dmodemd

Cable has some great deals now! Programming cheaper than Dish in many cases and will give you a dual-tuner HDTV DVR for $7-$12/month. 

Dish really needs to do something soon about their equipment problem. Even if they started offering $9.99 leases they just dont have enough of the DVRs to hand out. Thats why it is limited to new customers only. Meanwhile they are bleeding long-standing good customers... their BEST customers... idiots they are.

Lee


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## phat_b

mattmcg said:


> I think this is E*'s short-sightedness that they request an antiquated land line connection to synchronize with their service. Jeez, get with the 21st century and include an ethernet link and run this over the internet!


The reason for the POTS line requirement is to make sure you don't "rent" one of your receivers to your neighbor. Can't fault them for trying to keep customers from ripping them off. DirecTV does the same thing, except they don't have dual room receivers (afaik).


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## lpickup

lvkewlkid said:


> ...its not E*'s fault you dont have a landline, I dont understand why people dont have them anymore


Okay, this is off-topic, but I'll take the bait.

Maybe it's because people are already paying good money for a cell phone that in essence performs the same function as a landline and don't want to pay $70/month for what is essentially a redundant service.

Yes, I said $70/month. That is what I paid nearly every month with only a modest amount of long distance. That is the joy of living where I do, so you better believe that *I* disconnected from the landline (well, okay, I switched to Vonage over cable, so technically it's still a landline).

I guess your attitude sums up why companies like E* get away with nickel and diming us to death on stupid monthly fees. Apparently you just don't mind paying for the same thing twice: first you buy the receiver with the hard drive and the software that's running on it, and then you pay $5 every month to be able to use the stuff you already bought! Just like cameras on cell phones. Ridiculous!

Now, I realize that there are two ways to look at this. There are "cheap" DVR boxes out there, and the relative low cost of the box is in fact subsidized by the monthly fees, similar to free cell phones but high monthly charges; inexpensive printers with high cartridge prices, etc. I'm not saying fees don't have a place. However, I'm not convinced that the equipment + software costs (particularly in light of the quality and capabilities of the Dish DVR software when compared to the competition) for some of the DVR's that Dish provides is really worth enough for them to justify the fees they charge. Furthermore, I think as consumers we deserve a choice. Either give us the receiver for free or very close to it and charge us monthly to use it, or let us buy the thing outright and be fee free. Or, to look at it a different way, have one set low price for the receiver and offer a "lifetime" pass.

Instead, what E* has taken to doing is keeping the consumer confused by not offering this choice, so we really don't know how much the equipment is worth and thus they can get away with charging us full price for the equipment AND charging us a monthly fee.

...Lance


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## garypen

lvkewlkid said:


> D* makes it 5.99, so your getting a bargain with dish.


For accuracy's sake, DirecTV's DVR fee is _per household_, not _per receiver_ like Dish. So, for many people, DirecTV's $5.99 would be cheaper than the $10 or $15 they may be paying with Dish.


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## mwgiii

You can buy a 625 from:

Dishstore.net for $349.99 http://www.dishstore.net/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=242

Dishdepot.com for $349 + free shipping
http://www.dishdepot.com/receivers.jsp


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## Mike D-CO5

mwgiii said:


> You can buy a 625 from:
> 
> Dishdepot.com for $349 + free shipping
> http://www.dishdepot.com/receivers.jsp


 Mark also allows you to trade in your old dish receivers toward the purchase price of the new receiver. NO charges for shipping and NO TAX on anything if you live outside of the state of Florida.


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## mattmcg

jtravel said:


> Your getting your fees mixed-up alittle.


With Dish's new pricing sceme, this doesn't seem to be a difficult thing to do....


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## Alpaca Bill

I resently had all 5 of my receivers shut off by Dish's Receiver Audit Dept since they claim none of my receivers are connected to a landline. Which I do not understand since both of my 921's are (I see caller ID info whenever the phone rings) and both of my 508's are also. The only one that is not is my 301 which is in the basement, which is unfinished, and thereofre has no phone jacks. I had to call in a complain and they said that it is obvious that I am doing something wrong. What the F&*%^#[email protected]!&*^!!!! THe part that really scares me is that the Level 2 Tech had me go to each receiver and force it to call in. Well the first time I had called in on our house line which the receivers are plugged into. Needless to say this did not work since I was talking on the line. He even said "are you using the same line as the one we are talking on?" My reply was "yes, that is the only way I can get thru your dumba$$ menu system to get to you. When I try to call in on my cell so that I would be able to do the required testing, I can not get thru the system since it does not recogise my cell number." So he told me to hang up, do the force call in thing and then call back on my cell. Well needless to say...I could not get thru to him. Long story short, I was on the phone for over 5 hours over 3 days trying to get my receivers off of hold. I have been a customer since 1996. I pay annually. I subscribe to the Everything Pack + HD + Voom. Since I was in the process of moving to my new house I asked them how they would deal with people that do not have landlines since we are thinking of using VoIP or just our cell phones. They claim there is a way they can confirm that the receivers are in your house. My question to them tomorrow is going to be "I have 3 phone lines in my house. The main one as well as the secondary line are VoIP. The third one is used by security system and as a back-up line for my whole house automation system. It is the third line that all my receivers are going to be hooked up to but that line is not set up to be used for a voice line at all. What number do you want to use in my account so that when I call in the system recognizes me since the number that shows up when the receivers call in will be different than my main number?" It should be interesting to see how many of the CSR's (no matter what level they are) get stumped on this.

I agree...DISH it is time to come to the 21st Century and start using today's technologies.


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## TUKIN18S

So, if I have the E* 625 DVR. Am I going to be charged for 2 DVRs since it's a dual tuner?


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## Fletch23

TUKIN18S said:


> So, if I have the E* 625 DVR. Am I going to be charged for 2 DVRs since it's a dual tuner?


No, just one fee per receiver.


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## garypen

TUKIN18S said:


> So, if I have the E* 625 DVR. Am I going to be charged for 2 DVRs since it's a dual tuner?


They will, however, charge an add'l receiver fee for the 2nd output, if you don't plug it into a working phone line.

If the 625 is not your main receiver, you'll pay an add'l receiver fee for the 1st output, regardless of phone line, _and_ 2nd output if no phone line.


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## Anonymous

lpickup said:


> ...
> Yes, I said $70/month...


Anyone who pays $70/month for a land line is just lazy. You should pay $35/month for broadband and $14.95 for Vonage or one of their competitors. My total monthly phone bill from Vonage is routinely less than $25 a month. So I pay less than $60 for complete phone and broadband while you paid $70, that wasn't smart on your part.


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## Anonymous

Alpaca Bill said:


> ... we are thinking of using VoIP or just our cell phones...


 My Dish receivers are connected through Vonage (VoIP), no problem. However, people who have less than 128 kbps upstream often can't connect through dish since the VoIP adapter is encoding sound and not data, at lower data rates it throughs away more of the "noise" and thus the hayes data signal does not make it through. But if you get a decent broadband connection you will probably get at least 384 upstream and then you may have to increase the quality settings of your service, once you do that, you won't need a land line to comply to Dish's stupid rules. I say they should just equip all of their contracters with long range RFID readers, and all their recievers with long range RFID tags and then as their contractors drive around installing and repairing service they can use gps tied to the reader in the truck to see where all their boxes are located. The real reason they want their boxes to phone home is so they can charge you for pay per view. So such a set up could include wifi in the reciever that then sends out the pay per view order history to the truck as it drives by.


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## scooper

$70 /month for just POTS service ? - You're getting ripped off. I pay $85, but that includes my DSL service from Sprint + call forwarding (which we hardly ever use) + all those misc fees and taxes. I can't drop landline service (even if I switched to VoIP and cable modem instead ) because wireless service doesn't work all that well at my house - I would need a $600 repeater system to make totally wireless a possibility.


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## narnia777

Basic land lines start at less then $10/month, even with taxes and caller id or call waiting you can get it for around $20-$25. I pay $22 for my landline.

I pay my dsl to my isp seperately.

I only have one Dish receiver for Sky Angel and a few alacart subscriptions so I don't use a phone line. I also have Directv, the Tivo needs a phone line though, so I have it connected.

Jim


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## ibglowin

Man, where do you live. I have a basic service with caller ID and with TTL my phone bill is $40 and thats without ANY long distance services!



narnia777 said:


> Basic land lines start at less then $10/month, even with taxes and caller id or call waiting you can get it for around $20-$25. I pay $22 for my landline.
> 
> IJim


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## lpickup

Anonymous said:


> Anyone who pays $70/month for a land line is just lazy. You should pay $35/month for broadband and $14.95 for Vonage or one of their competitors. My total monthly phone bill from Vonage is routinely less than $25 a month. So I pay less than $60 for complete phone and broadband while you paid $70, that wasn't smart on your part.


Hellllooooo!  Did you read the next sentence in my post? The part where I said I stopped paying that and moved over to Cable Modem + Vonage?

I'm very glad that others are paying only pennies for their POTS. That's not the reality here in Vermont. I'm not sure if it's the lack of competition or just the rural area, but yes, it is expensive here! Basic cable broadband is technically $54.95/month here (I've been on a promotional $44.95/month, not sure how much longer it will last). The $44.95 + $14.95 for Vonage phone service works out to $10 less than I was getting for just POTS, so I am happy and getting broadband as part of the deal.

Yes, $54.95 is also expensive. Yes, I'm getting ripped off. But I don't see how I have a choice. If I bundle with cable television, they drop the price drastically, but then I wouldn't be here on the Satellite TV forums!

...Lance


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## the_bear

Charlie has all but admitted that the phone line requirement puts Dish at a competitive disadvantage to cable, where there is not phone line requirement. Dish is trying to come up with a more competitive security solution, but the wheels of progress are cranking slowly.


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## garypen

the_bear said:


> Dish is trying to come up with a more competitive security solution, but the wheels of progress are cranking slowly.


...and rolling backwards.


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## cybersleuth58

mattmcg said:


> Man....
> 
> I've been a customer for years and currently use a DVR 721. I just recently started looking at upgrading my DVR to get something with "name based recording" capability but after contacting Dish to see what my options were, I was astounded at the complexity, expense, and lack of options!!!!
> 
> 1. First off, as an existing customer, they would not sell/lease a 625 to me! What am I supposed to do, cancel my service and have my wife sign up under a new account? (boy that sure is a waste of time)
> 2. Second, they would charge me a DVR fee of $4.98 (I'm using the Top 120 now)
> 3. Third, they would charge me a 2nd room fee since I didn't have my PVR plugged into a wall socket (my family is all cellular based without a POTS line).
> 4. With a new account, they would then charge a $5 leasing fee.
> 
> This complexity and nickel and diming bull**it is extremely annoying! What ever happened to the "pay for your equipment and subscribe to service" or "lease your equipment with a long term commitment and subscribe to service" methodologies to keep everything simple, clean, and uncomplicated!
> 
> I think the effort to keep costs artificially low on the subscription packages has forced Dish to monetize other areas that seem to increase the fee structure in total and increase complexity. Also the fact that there is a new versus existing customer bias is completely out of whack! I hadn't thought about cancelling and switching to DirectTV or back to digital cable in a while but now I'm giving it a second look.
> 
> Charlie!!!! What has your company come too!!!!?????


Well, I was a customer for 2 minutes when I asked about upgrading to HDTV. The installer said: No problem. Call them and they will swap out your DVR to an HD DVR. So I called and it was no deal. I only have one TV and they would not allow me to swap my exisiting, just installed, DVR 510 for an HD DVR. I can have an HD Receiver (I presume the 811) installed. But I cannot connect my Panasonic DVD Recorder to it. (I have the 180 package). Is there any reason why I can swap my DVR510 out for an HD Receiver but not an HD DVR? Anyone get why?


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## Nick

the_bear said:


> Charlie has all but admitted that the phone line requirement puts Dish at a competitive disadvantage to cable, where there is not phone line requirement. Dish is trying to come up with a more competitive security solution, but the wheels of progress are cranking slowly.


...and E* subs are getting cranky. If Charlie's crack audit army were to yank my receivers, I wouldn't call back - ever. I would call D* or Adelphia. I spend well over $200/m for television/broadband services and I wouldn't hesitate to take my business elsewhere.

If Charlie pisses me off, I will piss on him by telling my story on eBay and offerling all five of my receivers for $1 each. I'll call it my Dish Notwork sale.

:listenup: Don't mess with me, Charlie. :flaiming Cable is lQQking better with each passing day.


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## Corwynder

Anonymous said:


> Anyone who pays $70/month for a land line is just lazy. You should pay $35/month for broadband and $14.95 for Vonage or one of their competitors. My total monthly phone bill from Vonage is routinely less than $25 a month. So I pay less than $60 for complete phone and broadband while you paid $70, that wasn't smart on your part.


Broadband? Yeah, right. Rumour has it that I should have high speed wireless capability in the next 6-9 months. It sucks when the biggest employer in town is the school system. Am I lazy because I pay $65 a month for a land line? I think not. As for Vonage, I've been ready to sign up for a few months now. I can't wait until I take an $85 phone and dial up account and actually go to high speed wireless and get Vonage and only pay $60.


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## bigrick

Anonymous said:


> My Dish receivers are connected through Vonage (VoIP), no problem. However, people who have less than 128 kbps upstream often can't connect through dish since the VoIP adapter is encoding sound and not data, at lower data rates it throughs away more of the "noise" and thus the hayes data signal does not make it through. But if you get a decent broadband connection you will probably get at least 384 upstream and then you may have to increase the quality settings of your service, once you do that, you won't need a land line to comply to Dish's stupid rules. I say they should just equip all of their contracters with long range RFID readers, and all their recievers with long range RFID tags and then as their contractors drive around installing and repairing service they can use gps tied to the reader in the truck to see where all their boxes are located. The real reason they want their boxes to phone home is so they can charge you for pay per view. So such a set up could include wifi in the reciever that then sends out the pay per view order history to the truck as it drives by.


Or they could have a guy drive to your house and collect your monthly payment and any pay per view you may want. They could even hire girls on roller skates to roll out and collect the $3.99 when you push the order button for PPV


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## the_bear

cybersleuth58 said:


> HD Receiver but not an HD DVR? Anyone get why?


The new customer deal for a 942 is $250, instead of free like the 811. I was in a similar situation, but when the installer showed me the box for equipment I didn't want, I sent him home. Dish does not like to swap out equipment after it has been activated, but they probably will in this case where the install was a mistake.


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## Turbohawk

I live in an area where Sprint (formerly Centel) is the ONLY conventional phone provider. I can get basic service for $10+$14 in taxes ($24) but at that price I can't call out to Austin (10 miles away) without LD charges. For another $35, I can get an Austin number, but that puts me at over $50/month for basic phone service. 

Broadband (cable) is available for $46.20/month. I tried Vonage and it SUCKED. I also tried LINGO and it was worse. Surprisingly, Packet8 ($22 with tax for unlimited US/Canada calling,and NO cancellation fees!) has been terrifically reliable for over a year now. The only thing is that modem transmissions (faxes, receiver attempts) don't always work. Not sure why. Like right now, I test the connection and it shows verified but if I choose to dial out it reports failure. I've been able to buy PPV's and they end up getting billed to me and cleared from the smartcard, just not sure why everytime I test it manually, there is no success...

What Dish needs to do is just offer an ethernet adapter so that people that have broadband can connect this way and get all sorts of goodies (of course, it works both ways, doesn't it?). That would be the short term solution for a long-term problem.

On another note, I am now finally ready to go HD, but it appears that Dish isn't going to give me any reason to stay with them. Since I've never signed up with DTV, I might just end up going to them for HD, or my cable company (which might be the best choice based on cost, but I just hate AOL/Time Warner!). I've also been a Dish customer since 96. Heck, they gave me the big run around when I inquired about the 522 a few months back. I've decided it's either the 942 or another provider, and I'm not going to pay for the equipment...so that pretty much leaves Dish out of it, I guess. Anyone know anything different?


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## Freeway19

> This complexity and nickel and diming bull**it is extremely annoying! What ever happened to the "pay for your equipment and subscribe to service" or "lease your equipment with a long term commitment and subscribe to service" methodologies to keep everything simple, clean, and uncomplicated!


Exactly. Dish has become an arrogant ripoff organization. Their new Smart Card seems to be the problem with my old 501 and I'm supposed to pay for their problems? What a lame bunch of nitwits.

Please check out the thread " 501 HDD still running, Has drop-outs" in this forum for my response to a fella who is having the same dropout issues with his DVR. I'd link you there but can't until I have 5 posts.

Although I put in about 4 trouble calls, I wonder if they would make good on a refurbished 501 if I subscribe to their warranty program, another monthly fee rip I'm sure.

Thanks


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