# WLS-TV reception in Chicago



## Link

I've been reading about the reception problems of ABC 7 (WLS-TV) in Chicago since they moved back to VHF digital channel 7 on Friday. Why would the station and the FCC think they could put out much of a signal at only 4.5kw?? In comparison KGO-TV in San Francisco is broadcasting on 7 with 24kw of power at about the same transmitter height as WLS-TV.

I've read WLS had to broadcast at low power to protect WOOD-TV in Grand Rapids, MI also broadcasting on 7 and at the maximum of 30kw allowed for VHF digital. Why should WLS have to protect WOOD-TV and why didn't WOOD go back to their analog spot on channel 8 for digital?

This whole problem isn't making sense. Other VHF digital stations in New York, Philadelphia, Washington DC, and Boston are also having problems. It sounds like they all should have gone to the UHF band. It would have simplified things for viewers only having to have one kind of antenna.


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## Tower Guy

Link said:


> This whole problem isn't making sense.


It seems that some converter boxes have very poor sensitivity on VHF.


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## MichiganRich

I've completely lost WLS-7 since the switch. To make matters worse, there are NO other ABC affiliates that I can receive here in southwest Michigan. It's odd that I can get every other network in both local markets (Chicago and South Bend) but not a single ABC station.


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## Link

MichiganRich said:


> I've completely lost WLS-7 since the switch. To make matters worse, there are NO other ABC affiliates that I can receive here in southwest Michigan. It's odd that I can get every other network in both local markets (Chicago and South Bend) but not a single ABC station.


If WLS doesn't get this problem fixed and either get a boost of power from the low 4.5kw they are broadcasting at or switch to a UHF digital frequency, they are going to lose their position as the #1 station in Chicago because viewers like you can't get them.

I can't believe they would not test this more and make a better choice to either have high power on channel 7 or opt to use a UHF channel as WGN and WTTW have. WBBM seems to be getting along ok on channel 12 but they are at a higher power at 8kw.


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## Fontano

Who made the choice for WLS to go to VHF-7?
Why did they leave their original UHF slot that had for several years now, with no issues ?

It's not like channel number means a whole lot today, espeically now in the digital area where the PSIP data masks what the real channel is.

Obviously they didn't learn anything from WBBM's issues when they were at VHF-3


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## jimisham

Link said:


> I've read WLS had to broadcast at low power to protect WOOD-TV in Grand Rapids, MI also broadcasting on 7 and at the maximum of 30kw allowed for VHF digital. Why should WLS have to protect WOOD-TV and why didn't WOOD go back to their analog spot on channel 8 for digital?


I believe WWMT in Kalamazoo is going to Channel 8.


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## V'ger

WKRC in Cincinnati went from 800KW on 31 to 15.5KW 12 on June 12th. I live about 55 miles, so was in the fringe range. I have seperate UHF and VHF antennas, amps and downfeeds from a 35' tower. I had no problem getting them on UHF at almost any angle pointed towards the south. Now on VHF, I have to be within 5 degrees of directly at their tower to get them during the day (a lot easier to get them at night). 

A co-worker of mine says her mom, who leaves near the GE plant (10 miles from tower) and has an outdoor antenna, can't get them. 

I got the feeling the decision to go back to VHF was a bean counter issue. It takes a lot less power to run 15KW. I also heard they reused their analog VHF 12 antenna, so it is not likely optimized for the wide band DTV transmission.

Sweeps comes in July. I bet they do something about it when their previously #1 news is 3rd or 4th due to the loss of most of their OTA viewers.

For comparision, WCPO is on VHF Channel 10 at 19.4KW. But I can get them 10x better then WKRC. And WCPO is moving their antenna up 100' on their tower in the next week.


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## SayWhat?

> WKRC in Cincinnati


I thought that was WKR*P*? B)


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## V'ger

SayWhat? said:


> I thought that was WKR*P*? B)


WKRC has been around for at least 50 years. I would expect the TV series was a take off on the WKRC radio call sign.


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## killerko

V'ger;2136725 said:


> WKRC in Cincinnati went from 800KW on 31 to 15.5KW 12 on June 12th. I live about 55 miles, so was in the fringe range. I have seperate UHF and VHF antennas, amps and downfeeds from a 35' tower. I had no problem getting them on UHF at almost any angle pointed towards the south. Now on VHF, I have to be within 5 degrees of directly at their tower to get them during the day (a lot easier to get them at night).
> 
> A co-worker of mine says her mom, who leaves near the GE plant (10 miles from tower) and has an outdoor antenna, can't get them.
> 
> I got the feeling the decision to go back to VHF was a bean counter issue. It takes a lot less power to run 15KW. I also heard they reused their analog VHF 12 antenna, so it is not likely optimized for the wide band DTV transmission.
> 
> Sweeps comes in July. I bet they do something about it when their previously #1 news is 3rd or 4th due to the loss of most of their OTA viewers.
> 
> For comparision, WCPO is on VHF Channel 10 at 19.4KW. But I can get them 10x better then WKRC. And WCPO is moving their antenna up 100' on their tower in the next week.


I'm about 45 miles n.w. of the Cincy towers in Preble Co. Using a Channel Master UHF-VHF combo antenna on a forty foot tower with a pre-amp and split to feed three HR-20's, I'm getting a 100 reading for 12 on all three machines. 95 to 100 for WCPO. Maybe you have terrain issues.


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## RAD

Fontano said:


> Who made the choice for WLS to go to VHF-7?
> Why did they leave their original UHF slot that had for several years now, with no issues ?
> 
> It's not like channel number means a whole lot today, espeically now in the digital area where the PSIP data masks what the real channel is.
> 
> Obviously they didn't learn anything from WBBM's issues when they were at VHF-3


Just guessing why they switched was because of $'s, it uses less power so they save money on their electric bill. As for the WBBM/Ch3 issues, maybe they thought since it was VHF-hi band vs. VHF-lo band that they wouldn't run into the same amount of issues.


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## Link

RAD said:


> Just guessing why they switched was because of $'s, it uses less power so they save money on their electric bill. As for the WBBM/Ch3 issues, maybe they thought since it was VHF-hi band vs. VHF-lo band that they wouldn't run into the same amount of issues.


It wasn't recommended for stations to continue using low band VHF channels for digital however, the #1 ABC owned station in Philadelphia WPVI 6 chose to use VHF 6 and is running into a lot of reception problems.

Stations in Nashville, TN and Memphis, TN are also using low band VHF on channel 5.


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## tvjay

There are approx 450 stations broadcasting in the VHF band. Some stations like WFAA (channel 8) in Dallas have licenses for 45 kW at 1500 feet. Where others, like WTOL channel 11 in Toledo, are only licensed for 16.9 kW at 1000 feet. I have not heard any problems out of Dallas or Las Vegas (where five stations are VHF). The difference being Toledo is in a very heavily populated area (located between Detroit, Cleveland and Columbus) and more importantly is located across the lake from Canada! The reason people are having issues is not necessarily the VHF band itself as it is so much power allotments and NON or poor VHF antennas.


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## Lord Vader

According to WLS Chicago General Manager Emily Barr, the FCC limited the station's power output. Barr explained they *wanted *a stronger output but were prohibited by the FCC. She also explained that they're asking the FCC to let them increase their output. Whether that's granted, time will tell.


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## tvjay

Lord Vader said:


> According to WLS Chicago General Manager Emily Barr, the FCC limited the station's power output. Barr explained they *wanted *a stronger output but were prohibited by the FCC. She also explained that they're asking the FCC to let them increase their output. Whether that's granted, time will tell.


Correct, most stations can output more power then they currently do HOWEVER they are limited by the FCC. The station where I work could actually quadruple our output power, but we are not allowed.


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## Fontano

Lord Vader said:


> According to WLS Chicago General Manager Emily Barr, the FCC limited the station's power output. Barr explained they *wanted *a stronger output but were prohibited by the FCC. She also explained that they're asking the FCC to let them increase their output. Whether that's granted, time will tell.


Why the change back to the VHF frequency then?

Who's choice was that? Were that at a higher? lower? same power level when they were broadcasting in the UHF range.


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## Schroedingers Cat

UHF, even at high power, has reception problems. But those are minimal near Lake Michigan because the terrain is quite flat. Many areas, even minimally hilly, have UHF problems with DTV.

The ERP on 7-13 has been set too low for real world conditions. Look for that to increase. The industry will demand it.

WOOD-TV didn't want to change channels twice, 8 to 7 and 7 to 8. WKZO-TV was analog 3, digital 2 pre transition. They had problems like WBBM-TV, analog 2, digital 3 pre transition. They interfered with each other near the lake, and are only about 120 miles apart. They wanted to move to 8, and did. Its like the old gag where a bunch of people are standing in front of chairs, and then sit down, only to find that there are not enough chairs. Not enough channels, particularly VHF, is the analogy.

Pity poor WPBN-TV, Channel 7 pre and post transition, Traverse City, MI, who is now broadcasting with just 500 watts digital due to the proximity to WOOD-TV. And that's in a hilly area. 

WLS-TV could go directional, but the south shore of Lake Michigan in Michigan is frequented by influential Chicagoans who want to see WLS-TV. WLS-TV was directional years ago with the idea that service over the lake was wasted, and they found that they wanted to serve Berrien County better, so they went nondirectional.


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## Schroedingers Cat

There are now at least three stations that have to reduce power or be directional because WOOD-TV opted to stay on Channel 7 post transition.

WLS-TV 7 Chicago, IL
WPBN-TV Traverse City, MI (500 watts ND STA)
WJBK-TV Detroit, MI (Application or CP, DA) ("Channel 2", operating on Physical Channel 7)

Oddly, WOOD-TV BEGAN on Channel 7 in the early days of TV, but changed to Channel 8 because of new standards and short spacing to WBKB-TV/WLS-TV and WXYZ-TV. WXYZ-TV stayed on Physical Channel 41 after June 12.


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## waterfallguy59

The FCC should force WOOD TV to go to a unoccupied channel - like the old WZZM DTV 39


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