# Will Washington DC HD locals be moving with SD locals?



## sbell1 (Mar 13, 2006)

I see that the Washington DC locals will be moving off of 61.5. Will the HD locals remain on 61.5? I am upgrading to 622 and HD on 3/28 and was going to have wing dish added to my Dish 500 for my HD channels including local HD. Even though CSR told me I can get HD *only* on 129 and has me down to get a Dish 1000. I had to tell him DC HD locals were on 61.5 so he added a wing dish to my order. I live in the mountains of WV, cannot receive OTA locals and doubt I can pick up 129. I just need my current Dish 500 and wing dish at 61.5 to get all HD programming, correct? Sorry this has just turned into two questions.

Thanks


----------



## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

There is another thread on Friday's retailer chat that says that the DC HD locals will be at 61.5


----------



## Rogueone (Jan 29, 2004)

reg locals are moving to 110 to meet the regulation that locals have be visible from a single dish. So once E10 is operating, our locals will move there. HD locals will be on 61.5 at least for now. Maybe they'll move to 110 also, but that is only rumor and conjecture at this point


----------



## vinobabu (Mar 13, 2006)

Maybe this is a stupid question..but if I have Dish 1000 can I receive programming from both 110 & 61.5? 

I have a new installation scheduled this coming saturday and wanted to make sure I get most of HD (including locals) with one dish.

Thanks
Vino


----------



## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

vinobabu said:


> Maybe this is a stupid question..but if I have Dish 1000 can I receive programming from both 110 & 61.5?
> 
> I have a new installation scheduled this coming saturday and wanted to make sure I get most of HD (including locals) with one dish.
> 
> ...


it is not stupid but the DISH 1000 cannot see 61.5. According to the other thread there was an announcement about DC HD locals being on 61.5. like everything it could change tomorrow.


----------



## Rogueone (Jan 29, 2004)

DC installs should be a 500 for 110/119 and a 300 or 500 for 61.5. you should not get a 1000 in DC (though for some it will work). If you want HD locals, you have to get the 61.5 dish


----------



## Fifty Caliber (Jan 4, 2006)

And all of this assumes that they don't completely change their mind and mirror the locals at 110 onto 61.5. They could do this and still comply with one-dish rule, AFAIK there is no prohibition against mirrorring channels in the one-dish rule. Not saying that this idea is prefferred, likely, or in any way under consideration at the moment, because I don't know, but it is an option.


----------



## vinobabu (Mar 13, 2006)

I just got off the phone with a E* sales rep. He told me that Dish 1000 with Vip211 receiver can receive programs from satellite 110,119 and 129. Also DC local HD is trasmitting from 129... so I will be able to get local HD without a second dish pointing to 61.5

Can someone confirm this please

Thanks
Vino


----------



## Rogueone (Jan 29, 2004)

um, Dish wouldn't have HD locals on 2 sats, so that person is likely a dolt  our HD locals are on 61.5. I bet the csr doesn't know the difference in Washington state (seattle) and Washington DC


----------



## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

Rogueone said:


> um, Dish wouldn't have HD locals on 2 sats, so that person is likely a dolt  our HD locals are on 61.5. I bet the csr doesn't know the difference in Washington state (seattle) and Washington DC


I believe that they were originally announced to be at 129. But CSRs are often not informed of changes. As for mirroring locals that sounds like an inefficient use of bandwidth.


----------



## Rogueone (Jan 29, 2004)

I could understand a possible confusion if Dish initially expected DC HD to be on 129, then looked at their own coverage map and realized about 20-30% of the area is outside the 129 coverage  And what's worse, that area is also the more rural area likely to have more sat users


----------



## vinobabu (Mar 13, 2006)

This is the email reply I got from the Sales rep.

"Dear Mr. XXXX,

Thank you for your email. The local channels in HD are both located at 129 and 61.5 satellite locations. A dish 100 is capable of receiving three satellite locations however it is unable to pick up satellite 61.5. 

Your business is greatly appreciated and we thank you for allowing us to be of assistance to you. If you have any further questions or concerns, please refer to or reply to this email.


Sincerely,

Christina C.

DISH Network eCare"


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Rogueone said:


> reg locals are moving to 110 to meet the regulation that locals have be visible from a single dish. So once E10 is operating, our locals will move there. HD locals will be on 61.5 at least for now. Maybe they'll move to 110 also, but that is only rumor and conjecture at this point


Don't all the locals (SD & HD) have to be on a single dish? To me this suggests that they've either all got to be on 61.5 or they've all got to be spread amongst the Dish1000 birds. Mirroring is not a valid solution.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

All of a market's SD must be on the same dish.
All of a market's HD must be on the same dish.
A market's SD and HD do not have to be on the same dish together.
Also locals do not have to be on a satellite with other programming.


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

James Long said:


> All of a market's SD must be on the same dish.


This is not the way I read it.


> All of a market's HD must be on the same dish.


By extension of all digitals having to be on the same dish.


> A market's SD and HD do not have to be on the same dish together.


Until February 2009, I presume.

From my reading, there is a more logical division:

1. All carried analog stations must be available to a single dish
2. All carried digital stations must be available to a single dish (not necessarily the analog dish).

The act seems to lump digital SD and HD together as DTV services as opposed to segregating them.

If you're using SD to represent all analog and HD to represent all digital, I say shame on you.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

harsh said:


> If you're using SD to represent all analog and HD to represent all digital, I say shame on you.


OK, shame on me for a shortcut.

Since most of the ATSC Digital channels that E* carries are HD I referred to them as HD.

But as you may be noting ... there are a few ATSC Digital subchannels channels that are SD and are carried on E* (one of them is in my market). If E* were to introduce HD locals to one of those markets (including mine) there would be a question whether the 'subchannel' (which isn't the main feed on the ATSC channel) would need to be with the HD channels carried.

Of course E* is on a major push to only carry the MAIN channel of an ATSC feed (the HD) and do not see carrying subchannels as a requirement --- so any they do carry are 'extra' and outside the rules anyways.

But I suppose there has to be "the next thing" that the FCC/Congress goes after E* for on locals.


----------



## derwin0 (Jan 31, 2005)

vinobabu said:


> A dish 100


Dish 100??? That would be my first clue that the Sales Rep was clueless :lol:


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

James Long said:


> Of course E* is on a major push to only carry the MAIN channel of an ATSC feed (the HD) and do not see carrying subchannels as a requirement --- so any they do carry are 'extra' and outside the rules anyways.


This whole "must carry" thing is a real stinker. In my market, the WB station has four subchannels. Very few of the subchannels could argue any kind of viewership (not to suggest that their content isn't worthwhile). I think they're leasing out a couple of the subchannels just to force distribution on cable (and perhaps satellite).

I certainly wouldn't want anyone to be forced to carry an obvious placeholder like the NBC Weather subchannel. What about public access channels (my market has three)? Then there is the issue of significantly viewed...

Combine all of this with the signal availability proceedings and we see how much the FCC tinkers with the free market.


----------



## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

JL what digital subchannels are they carrying and why?


----------



## Rogueone (Jan 29, 2004)

vinobabu said:


> This is the email reply I got from the Sales rep.
> 
> "Dear Mr. XXXX,
> 
> ...


I still doubt they put HD locals on both, but maybe it's temporary. anyone here in DC with a 1000 getting HD locals from 129?


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Geronimo said:


> JL what digital subchannels are they carrying and why?


In my market they are carrying "UPN Michiana". WSBT 22 CBS has a special UPN feed on it's subcarrier at 22.2. All the area cable companies have picked it up and E* has also added the channel. "UPN Michiana" is not available in analog OTA. (We also have two OTA LP stations that are carried on E*, a WB affilate and an ABC affiliate. Sorry TNGTony.)

Other markets have LP channels that are also subcarriers on ATSC channels. Some of those are on E*. I'm not sure that any other market has an ATSC only channel like I have ... but I wouldn't be suprised.


----------



## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

That was interesting. Thanks.


----------



## vinobabu (Mar 13, 2006)

Dear Mr. XXX,

Thank you for your response. Existing DISH Network customers are getting the local channels at 61.5 satellite location using a second dish. Eventually, we will be upgrading their dishes to our new DISH 1000 that way they will not be required two satellite dishes. The information online may have not been updated yet but we assure you that you will be able to get your local channels in HD using the DISH 1000.

We apologize for the inconvenience this issue may have caused you. Your business is greatly appreciated and we thank you for allowing us to be of assistance to you. If you have any further questions or concerns, please refer to or reply to this email.


Sincerely,

Christina C.

DISH Network eCare


----------



## Rogueone (Jan 29, 2004)

vinobabu said:


> Dear Mr. XXX,
> 
> Thank you for your response. Existing DISH Network customers are getting the local channels at 61.5 satellite location using a second dish. Eventually, we will be upgrading their dishes to our new DISH 1000 that way they will not be required two satellite dishes. The information online may have not been updated yet but we assure you that you will be able to get your local channels in HD using the DISH 1000.
> 
> ...


write Christina back and mention to her she is in error  Ask her to look at their coverage map for 129. About 30-40% of the DC market is in the non-viewable area of 129, so moving our HD locals to 129 wouldn't work. Then see how she responds to that 

Dish only has 1 option, the one I've expected, to resolve this. The only option for 1 dish would be to put our HD locals on 110, but no matter what they do, DC will not be a single dish market. Only some of it can be a single dish market


----------



## Frank Monroe (Mar 18, 2006)

Before reading this thread, I sent this same questin to [email protected]. I was asking because I cannot reach both 61.5 and the other three satellites from my current apartment or from where I am about to move. I asked if the DC local HD channels would ever be available on the satellites reachable from the DISH1000. The person's response was: I am not sure technically how this will be done, but we will soon have a single dish solution for customers in the DC area.


----------



## Rogueone (Jan 29, 2004)

i wonder if they are considering persons in say the St Mary's area as Balitmore instead of DC?  I can't see them making DC a single dish market unless the person is only talking locals and they plan to put all our locals on 110 once E10 is there. But that wouldn't help HD customers get HD on 1 dish, but that would be a way to get all locals, even HD, on one dish


----------



## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

It seems that some keep forgetting the details of teh one dish rule....

James rehashed it yet again in this post on page one of this thread..

http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=547451&postcount=14

The one dish rule does not mean one dish for all customers, if you had SD ocals and HD, you may still have 2 dishes....


----------



## vinobabu (Mar 13, 2006)

Rogueone said:


> write Christina back and mention to her she is in error  Ask her to look at their coverage map for 129. About 30-40% of the DC market is in the non-viewable area of 129, so moving our HD locals to 129 wouldn't work. Then see how she responds to that
> 
> Dish only has 1 option, the one I've expected, to resolve this. The only option for 1 dish would be to put our HD locals on 110, but no matter what they do, DC will not be a single dish market. Only some of it can be a single dish market


Christina , was indeed in error... . No local HD for me from Dish 1000. I have scheduled a second dish install to get 61.5.


----------



## Rogueone (Jan 29, 2004)

sorry for your troubles. such a shame the customers know more than the csr's


----------



## Frank Monroe (Mar 18, 2006)

I just got off the phone with the Executive Office of E*. This person told me that indeed the Washington DC HD locals would be available on one of the Dish 1000 satellites later this year. He says they will be moving or mirroring them one at a time over this year.


----------



## Rogueone (Jan 29, 2004)

I have always thought it made sense for DC and Atlanta HD locals to be on 110. I suspect once the split wing stuff is done, that may occur for us. But it doesn't eliminate the fact a 1000 can NOT be used in the DC market, as at least 30%, and likely upwards are 70%, of the market wouldn't be able to see 129. DC is what I like to call a flat city, i.e, we don't have high rises. The tallest building is what, 20 stories, and there are only a handful that size. 

DC's suburbs are built "into" the surrounding landscape, the trees were not clearcut, but roads were cut "thru" the forest to make housing. So between mountains to the west, low lieing land to the east, and very tall trees everywhere you look, the likelihood of even 30% of the subs in this market seeing 129 are slim. Too many obstructions. so, if they stated "moved to a 1000 satellite" it's not going to be to 129. And if they stupidly and ignorantly try it (along with dropping 61.5) they'll quickly learn they can't. My installer mentioned something along those lines, that the early 1000 installs had to get yanked because it just wasn't feasible to see 129 here.


----------



## Frank Monroe (Mar 18, 2006)

I may have actually added more to what he said than what he actually said. He really didn't specifically say Dish 1000. What he said was that the DC HD locals would be available later this year on a satellite that would allow a one dish solution. The reason for the change is the installs are too complex and not everyone can get a line of site in each direction.


----------

