# Signal Strength



## Roseman (Dec 14, 2008)

I just had a Dish installer upgrade my system to HD and a VIP 722.....My wife and I love the picture quality (the TV is a Samsung LN46A650)....It's not that we're not satisfied, the installer was very helpful and professional.....but I was just curious what you folks thought about our signal strength and what it means if anything about our particular situation. This dish is a 1000.2.....

Here are the numbers he told me I had though they fluctuate with the weather from what I understand a few points up or down......

Sat. 119- 110
Sat 110- 105
Sat. 129- 81

We would appreciate anything you could tell us about this......
by the I like the way the remote for the 722 is just like the one for the old 625 it makes the learning curve not an issue at all....great for the grandparents.


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

Expect to see those drop off some once the receiver gets it's software update (there will be a message that states "signal meter has been updated"). In my area, it drops the readings by 35 or so percent on the meter.

Those signals are fine. 129 is low because the sat is old, lower-powered, and broken, but a new sat was just launched last week, and should be taking over in Feb. You'll see much stronger 129 signals when that happens.


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## Roseman (Dec 14, 2008)

IIP, thanks for responding....Is there somewhere I can read about that?...The new launch?....Sorry if I sound new to this, I am but will the new satellite be a NEW 129 or how does that work? A new satellite for HD is still called 129?


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## CeeWoo (Dec 1, 2008)

Roseman said:


> IIP, thanks for responding....Is there somewhere I can read about that?...The new launch?....Sorry if I sound new to this, I am but will the new satellite be a NEW 129 or how does that work? A new satellite for HD is still called 129?


I'm no more informed than you, but have found info by doing a google for:
ciel 2 satellite

So far, it appears that all is going well! 

BTW-just bumped into this thread on one of the other boards here

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=144392


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

Those are pretty good numbers, even before the update.
Lets hope for an early activation of the new Sat.


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

Roseman said:


> IIP, thanks for responding....Is there somewhere I can read about that?...The new launch?....Sorry if I sound new to this, I am but will the new satellite be a NEW 129 or how does that work? A new satellite for HD is still called 129?


129 West Longitude is essentially a "parking spot". The satellites used for TV are in geostationary orbit in the Clarke belt (named after author Arthur C Clarke); a big ring around the equator. The shorthand way of talking about a particular place on the Clarke belt is to use it's Longitude.


































There are often multiple satellites in roughly the same spot, because often a single satellite doesn't have the capacity to utilize all of the allotted frequencies to their best advantage (and because sats are limited in size, weight, and lifespan, among other things).

Currently, an old satellite called Echostar 5 is parked at 129W. It has 4 broken transponders and a broken gyro that prevents it from staying aimed at the earth properly. It has to use maneuvering fuel to keep it aimed properly, requiring a correction every 3 days or so, and it still suffers from a wobble, which causes signal strengths to go up and down throughout the day. Folks on the edge of it's footprint have big problems getting enough signal, and often have dropouts.

The Canadian Ciel-2 is a modern, powerful satellite and also is designed to have spot beams, which are used to aim multiple narrow beams instead of one large, continent-sized beam. Spot beams allow the frequencies of one transponder to be reused several times by beaming different "spots" across the country. This is how satellite companies can offer so many unique local channels with a small number of available transponders. It is also why you lose your local channels if you drive out of its spot beam, and why you can't get, say, Boston locals if you're in Florida or California.









This is a map of DirecTV's spot beams from its 101W satellite. You can see that the transponders are re-used several times over the country, allowing different programming to be seen by different areas from the same transponder frequency.


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## BaldEagle (Jun 19, 2006)

Will be interesting to see what the numbers do when they upgrade to the new signal meter. 

I normally only get about 50-55 on 119 and slightly less on 110. That is with a dish 500 on a tripod for the motorhome.

I've found that if the signal is 40 or above I never lose reception even in storms.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

I was really worried as I hover around 35 on 129 here in San Diego. We had HORRIBLE storms here on Monday and Wednesday, and I never lost signal on any channel. Was really surprised.
Granted my Parents live in Couer d' Alene ID, and they didn't lose any signal and they received 30" of snow in 24hrs.


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

Keep in mind that the signal meters on most "modern" Dish receivers were modified to read 35-40 points low. No one seems to know why, but if you add 35 to what your receiver's meter says, then you will have a better idea of where your signal really is.

35 (which is really 70 or so) is good for most TPs on 129. You shouldn't get dropouts until the signal falls below 15 (which is really 50).

Expect your 35 to go up to around 55 once Ciel-2 comes online.


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## Roseman (Dec 14, 2008)

Thanks so much IIP.....The Eastern Arc that I hear folks chatting about in some of the forums is entirely different from the Ciel-2 I assume.....My installer told me that the eastern arc used the 1000.4 dishes or was reserved for those, I meant to ask him if it only worked with those dishes or not and exactly what he meant but I never got around to it...I don't think he meant "reserved" exactly but maybe for new installs only and not HD upgrades........Can you tell us what your understanding of the "eastern arc" is?


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## puckwithahalo (Sep 3, 2007)

> Keep in mind that the signal meters on most "modern" Dish receivers were modified to read 35-40 points low. No one seems to know why, but if you add 35 to what your receiver's meter says, then you will have a better idea of where your signal really is.


It was done to try and make the signal meters on the various models of receivers uniform. It used to be if you hooked one model receiver up you'd get one signal strength, then hook up a different model and get something totally different. At least, that's what I was told


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

Roseman, Eastern Arc is the satellites at 61.5°, 72.7° and 77°, all DBS slots. The 1-dish solution for getting all 3 is the Dish 1000.4 but you can also use separate dishes, and a few people have gotten 61.5/72.7 with a Dish 500 even though they are a bit farther apart than the 9° spread that dish is designed for. More at http://www.dishuser.org/easternarc.php


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## Roseman (Dec 14, 2008)

Thanks BobaBird, that answers lots of questions.....I appreciate it


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

puckwithahalo said:


> It was done to try and make the signal meters on the various models of receivers uniform. It used to be if you hooked one model receiver up you'd get one signal strength, then hook up a different model and get something totally different. At least, that's what I was told


That answer just doesn't make sense (the stated goal makes sense, though). On a meter marked from 0-125, why would it make sense for the peak signals to be 65 or so?

Traditionally, meters were 0-100, and you would only hit 100 with a perfectly-aligned dish on a spot beam; CONUS beams would max out at 97 or so. I understood Dish using 125, because spot beams might actually be over 100, but CONUS beams on the old meters still peaked between 95-98. That made the meter very useful.

The way it is today just doesn't make sense, and frankly, whoever approved the decision to change it needs to be sent out into the field for a couple of months to install systems.


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

I thought you were going to say "to protect the crops from birds."


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## puckwithahalo (Sep 3, 2007)

> That answer just doesn't make sense (the stated goal makes sense, though). On a meter marked from 0-125, why would it make sense for the peak signals to be 65 or so?
> 
> Traditionally, meters were 0-100, and you would only hit 100 with a perfectly-aligned dish on a spot beam; CONUS beams would max out at 97 or so. I understood Dish using 125, because spot beams might actually be over 100, but CONUS beams on the old meters still peaked between 95-98. That made the meter very useful.
> 
> The way it is today just doesn't make sense, and frankly, whoever approved the decision to change it needs to be sent out into the field for a couple of months to install systems.


They changed the scale without changing the graphic. Why? I dunno?


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