# Goodbye, Charlie - mostly



## astrotrf (Apr 5, 2004)

I've never been much of an E* basher, because I don't (yet) do HDTV, beyond the fact that E*'s poor performance is the _reason_ I don't yet do HDTV. 

I *have* been a frequent Eldon basher, because it's like shooting fish in a barrel ... and Eldon never ceases to restock the barrel! 

But I've finally had enough - I finally took note of the fact that E* receivers are bug farms, and D* receivers apparently Just Plain Work.

So I've switched - I'm now a new D* subscriber. They don't carry some of the superstations, and I can't get distant networks (for some reason, all of the Albuquerque TV stations are under the impression that we get their OTA signals just fine down here in the bootheel  ), and I'm still learning to live with TiVo. But I have to say that I'm impressed by how solid the receiver is - everything it does works and works well.

But I'll hold onto my E* subscription to keep my superstations and distant nets, trimming back as far as I can, otherwise.

For those who might be thinking about switching, let me offer some initial observations:

1) TiVo takes some care and feeding, and some getting used to. Out of the box, it wanted to record every childrens' program in sight, until I gave "thumbs down" (a remote-control feature) to enough of them

2) the guide is, as you've heard, excruciatingly slow. A new software release speeds up the guide; it is now agonizingly slow, instead. :nono2: I know that I am missing things I'd like to watch because there aren't enough hours in the day to browse the guide looking for things. (This is supposed to be TiVo's job, but TiVo is well short of artificial intelligence)

3) channels are scattered willy-nilly through the list - I'm finding it next to impossible to remember where things are, because of this randomness. It bothers me less than it otherwise would, though, because of item 2

My overall early impression is that if you _know_ what you want to watch, the D* TiVo DVRs are great. If you _don't know_ what you want to watch, you'll be happier with browsing an E* receiver.

On the other hand:

1) shows you know you want to watch will record all of the time, forever - you don't have to set up weekly timers or worry about the show moving to a different time slot or anything (name-based recording is very simply the best feature a DVR can have)

2) TiVo will look for things for you; it doesn't even have to appear in the guide. For example, if someone recommends Kellie Martin's "Mystery Woman" shows on the Hallmark Channel, you just tell TiVo to watch for them - if one comes on a couple of months from now, TiVo will record it. Or if you (again!) missed that Columbo episode with Patrick McGoohan, you can tell TiVo to catch it for you next time, regardless of when "next time" is, or on what channel

3) the hard drive is always full of stuff that might (or might not) pique your interest (did you know that some channel shows reruns of Time Tunnel? TiVo figured out that I like science fiction shows, and recorded some episodes)

If I was made of money, I'd keep 'em both, and watch live TV with Dish Network, and depend on DirecTiVo to entertain me during those vast periods when there are "500 channels and nothing on".

Picture quality? I dunno. They're both _so_ inferior to my BUD that, relatively speaking, there's no difference.

Oh, and HDTV? Well, since Charlie can't find anything compelling (What does he watch? Bingo?) and can't hire competent software companies to write receiver code, that'll be DirecTV as soon as MPEG4 comes online.

But I don't know _what_ I'd do for non-TV entertainment without the Eldon comedy show to laugh/cry at!

Terry


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## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

I turned off the auto-record of Tivo Suggestions. It still supplies the list, but I can browse it and tell it what I'd like it to record.

Also, use the LIST guide and not the "DirecTV" guide. It's faster and nicer, I think (can see what's on a channel for the entire night, and can even go back in the guide to see what you missed). 

I think the PQ between Dish and Direct is about the same, but the hardware/software did it for me too. 

As for the channel numbers, I learned them in about a month. It's just about learning what you watch. And they're mostly grouped a lot like Dish. A&E, BBC, History, Biography, Hist Int. are all together; the Discovery Channels, TLC, etc. are all in one basic area. News and weather are spread out, but I don't bother with CNNs, so what do I care? 

I'm loving D*. I'd not go back to E* unless they REALLY got their act together.


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## reddice (Feb 18, 2003)

Well I had the Tivo for a year when we switched and it was a big mistake. To me the receiver was the worst thing ever. The guide was way too slow even in Tivo mode. The channels were organized by some one who did not know anything. Who in their right mind would put Nick East on 299 and Nick West on 300. Shopping channels spread out and news channels spread out. Plus way too many PPV channels right in the 100's which is the worst spot. Plus I could not even change channels freely without it going b&w. The peace of junk would even do that when I am just watching tv. Plus when you go to record a show it sits there and takes forever to set the recording. Also I did not like how during the night it would record off of blank channels and twice a week it would keep setting my second tuner to the useless 582 blank channel.

We are now back with Dish because even though my family did not have Tivo's they hated the way the channels were organized and way too many PPV and blank channels. We now have all 510 PVR's and they are way faster and better than the Tivo which is now a bad memory.


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## boba (May 23, 2003)

Astrotrf welcome to the good side of satellite. Be patient with the TiVo it works much better than DISH but you have to adapt to it. It is a different product that you have to adjust too. It has faults but it does work as designed and RELIABLY.


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## reddice (Feb 18, 2003)

What reliably. I suffered with the Tivo for a year and it was anything but reliable.


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## astrotrf (Apr 5, 2004)

reddice said:


> The channels were organized by some one who did not know anything. Who in their right mind would put Nick East on 299 and Nick West on 300.
> [ ... ]
> Plus I could not even change channels freely without it going b&w. The peace of junk would even do that when I am just watching tv.
> [ ... ]
> during the night it would record off of blank channels


I must be slipping; putting Nick East right next to Nick West sounds eminently logical to me.

The b&w thing was a known problem with one particular revision of the hardware, or so I am told. You shouldn't have had to live with it.

Yeah, I've seen it recording stuff off blank channels, too - in particular, it likes to record stuff off my network locals, even though I don't subscribe!

I'm not sure what you mean by a lack of reliability - the only reliabilty-related problem you relate here is the b&w issue. The thing neither reboots nor needs rebooting (are you listening, Charlie?), always records things its supposed to,and I've never heard of anybody losing all of their recordings to software problems ...

What other reliability problems did you note?

Thanks.
Terry


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## oblio98 (Sep 17, 2002)

Amazing. After 5 years with E*, I just got a DTV setup (1 triple dish and the basic Tivo Recorder/receiver) and I agree with almost everything stated above.

My wife HATES the Tivo guide, and refuses to use it. She goes back to the 721 for her TV viewing (the programming is paid up until August - I got the DTV for baseball and to see how it compared with E*)

The channels are VERY scattered, and there is only 1 set of "favorites", which kinda sucks.

I don't like the way the guide fills out when you page down, it disappears, then fills in. So slow.

The install was easy, however. I did it myself, and the 3 sats lined up perfectly. I was worried about that, but I got in the 90s right off the bat.

So, now I have a 921, 721, and the D* Tivo. In August, I'll have to decide whether to dump Dish or scale it back and go to HD on DTV.

I sure hope they can make the guide faster by then, or my wife will be really ticked if I dump Dish!

:-jon


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## astrotrf (Apr 5, 2004)

oblio98 said:


> I sure hope they can make the guide faster by then, or my wife will be really ticked if I dump Dish!


I don't think there's any hope for that; they're rolling out a software update right now that is supposed to speed up the guide. I haven't seen it yet, but other reports I've read suggest that they failed to make a worthwhile difference in the speed.

My bet is that _really_ speeding up the guide is going to require a complete rewrite of the way they organize storage of the program guide, and that won't happen soon, if at all, on the TiVo-based receivers.

Just hope that the upcoming non-TiVo receivers do it better.

Terry


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