# New broadcast TV "movies" channel



## AntAltMike (Nov 21, 2004)

Fox affiliated television stations in Boston, New York, Philadelphia and Washington, DC are now identifying their X.2 subchannels as "movies". Here in Washington, DC, they put up color bars last night, and this morning, they are showing some syndicated trash called the" Trisha" show., with a distracting lower caption bar that reads

WDCA 20 - MOVIES - Washington, DC (my 20 logo)

Does anyone know where I might find program listings and schedules for this channel?


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## AntAltMike (Nov 21, 2004)

Here is their schedule page on their website. http://moviestvnetwork.com/schedule.php

Their website is not extensively developed at the moment, only showing one week of scheduled programming, and with no clickable link to the movie synopses

High Anxiety and Silent Movie are scheduled.


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## oldschoolecw (Jan 25, 2007)

AntAltMike said:


> Fox affiliated television stations in Boston, New York, Philadelphia and Washington, DC are now identifying their X.2 subchannels as "movies". Here in Washington, DC, they put up color bars last night, and this morning, they are showing with a distracting lower caption bar that reads
> 
> WDCA 20 - MOVIES - Washington, DC (my 20 logo)
> 
> ...


Thanks for the heads up, I just did a Tivo OTA scan and sure enough I have WFXT 25.2 now, but it's a test pattern at the moment


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## oldschoolecw (Jan 25, 2007)

Here is even more info http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movies!


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

Thanks, guys.

OT, but I wish everyone one would list their general location in their personal profile.


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

I thought Fox was planning (threatening) to scrub OTA and go cable/sat only?


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Looks like 19 cities are getting the Movies! network:

http://www.rabbitears.info/search.php?request=network_search&network=Movies%21

Here in NY, it's coming *soon".


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## AntAltMike (Nov 21, 2004)

Nick said:


> OT, but I wish everyone one would list their general location in their personal profile.


Very OT, as I am the only person to author a post above yours in this thread who does not list his general location in his personal profile, and neither of my posts have anything to do with where I am, though I did say, "Here in Washington, DC" in the first one.

I have serviced TV antenna systems in eleven states plus the District of Columbia and have current professional responsibilities to customers in nine of those states plus DC, and I keep track of TV stations in seven DMAs. In the gas price thread, I mention where the pump prices I am reportiing are in each and every post I author there. But you still can't stick a potato in my exhaust pipe because you can't find me.


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## AntAltMike (Nov 21, 2004)

They are running promos of upcoming films including :

Taxi Driver

Serpico
The Lords of Flatbush

From Here to Eternity
Planet of the Apes
On the Waterfront
The Poseidon Adventure
MASH


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## fluffybear (Jun 19, 2004)

Looks as of WAGA 5 here in Atlanta will be carrying this channel as well.

The only question is if DirecTV will provide program data for this channel. While the AM2n can scan both WATL 36.2 (Bounce) and 36.3 (Antenna TV), we still have no guide data for either channel and it's been close to 2 years.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

FWIW, I get DIRECTV guide data for Antenna TV. I seem to have lost Bounce tho. It's supposed to be on 9-3 here, but I only get 9-1 and 9-2. Could have sworn I had it, at one time, tho. :scratchin

I did a re-scan, to see if i could find Bounce. No luck, but it did pick up a "second" 5-2, which turns out to be Movies! It's all trailers now, stating it will start on Memorial Day. No guide data... yet.


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## oldschoolecw (Jan 25, 2007)

AntAltMike said:


> They are running promos of upcoming films including :
> 
> Taxi Driver
> 
> ...


Yeah, and they are showing that they have some good stuff, but it's disappointing none of this stuff is in widescreen. I thought that since digital transfer everything that was new network wise had to be at least 720P?


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## ThomasM (Jul 20, 2007)

This "MOVIES" channel is a creation of Weigel Broadcasting, the same outfit that runs ME-TV. We have a Weigel-Owned full power station here in Milwaukee which is carrying it (naturally). There is a good article about it in the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel in the TV-Radio section. Go to jsonline.com to check it out!


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## oldschoolecw (Jan 25, 2007)

ThomasM said:


> This "MOVIES" channel is a creation of Weigel Broadcasting, the same outfit that runs ME-TV. We have a Weigel-Owned full power station here in Milwaukee which is carrying it (naturally). There is a good article about it in the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel in the TV-Radio section. Go to jsonline.com to check it out!


Cool thanks http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/entertainment/208717551.html


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## trainman (Jan 9, 2008)

oldschoolecw said:


> Yeah, and they are showing that they have some good stuff, but it's disappointing none of this stuff is in widescreen. I thought that since digital transfer everything that was new network wise had to be at least 720P?


"720p" is not synonymous with "widescreen."

But, no, there's no absolutely no requirement that new OTA services broadcast in HD, or even widescreen.


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

SayWhat? said:


> I thought Fox was planning (threatening) to scrub OTA and go cable/sat only?


And they still may. But that is a different issue. FOX is not going to close shop on the stations it owns, and in fact they need to find ways to use the bandwidth they have to discourage the government Overlords from snatching it out from under them. There is a "use it or lose it" chill going through OTA right now. If a station lets one bit through as a null bit wihout content, the FCC will annex it under Eminent Domain (except without compensation) and sell it to Verizon.

And this is exactly why we are seeing these subs. They are not there to make money, they are there to reserve bandwidth.

_Movies! _is an attempt to do just that. It is supposed to be content from the FOX library which should be mostly movies, but FOX also has a reality channel with a lot of stuff in the can so it might be more than just movies.

The signal was not up on the sat for distribution to FOX stations Wednesday, but the O&O stations were all required to have it up and running with some sort of signal by then. Some stations duplicated _Bounce _or some other sub for the duration, but by now all FOX O&O stations should have _Movies!_ up. FOX affils will probably get first dibs, but you may see it appear on any TV station in your market eventually, assuming they are willing to pay the freight to NewsCorp er, 21st Century FOX (the new name). FOX owns 28 stations in 22 markets, so I would expect Movies! to be on most if not all of those locations pretty quickly, although there may be legal or other obstructions in a couple of locations. But it is not exclusive to FOX O&O stations, so most markets will have it eventually.

*As for the "threat", *that is more possible than a lot of folks think. Most FOX stations already have the infrastructure in place to feed different signals to OTA than what goes to cable and sat. Stations in Comcast and Cox markets already send different commercials to cable viewers than go out OTA.

*As far as execution, it would never need to be a full abandonment of OTA. All FOX has to do is move a couple of NFL games this fall to cable only *(which would be replaced by news repeats or something else OTA) to make good on that threat. That alone should be enough to scare the pants off of Aereo and discourage them from trying to sell customers FOX minus its best programs. If nobody blinks, they can move a couple of other prime shows. And they can do that while completely fulfilling all license obligations. If all the big nets do that, and they also adopt the ABC free streaming model, which is easy and inexpensive to do, paying $12 a month for OTA on your iPad will not be all that attractive anymore, and* it'll be buh-bye, Aereo, and the horse they rode in on.*


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

trainman said:


> "720p" is not synonymous with "widescreen."
> 
> But, no, there's no absolutely no requirement that new OTA services broadcast in HD, or even widescreen.


What he said.

I think there is not technolgy as of yet that can squeeze two HD signals into a single OTA channel, at least not while delivering any sort of quality, since they would have to split about 17 Mb/s between them just for the video. The only requirement is that they be broadcast digitally under ATSC, which includes the 480i 4:3 format.

That said, technically it could still be 16:9 SD if they had opted for that, and I am a little disappointed that they didn't, seeing as how nearly every movie in the FOX library would probably be well suited to that aspect ratio. Digital SD widescreen 480i is very possible for a sub, and the quality of that is light years better than old analog SD delivery as we knew it.


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## fluffybear (Jun 19, 2004)

Steve said:


> FWIW, I get DIRECTV guide data for Antenna TV. I seem to have lost Bounce tho. It's supposed to be on 9-3 here, but I only get 9-1 and 9-2. Could have sworn I had it, at one time, tho. :scratchin
> 
> I did a re-scan, to see if i could find Bounce. No luck, but it did pick up a "second" 5-2, which turns out to be Movies! It's all trailers now, stating it will start on Memorial Day. No guide data... yet.


I'll be interested to see if any of us get guide data for this channel.

DirecTV really needs to come up with some kind of solution for this problem..


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Steve said:


> FWIW, I get DIRECTV guide data for Antenna TV. I seem to have lost Bounce tho. It's supposed to be on 9-3 here, but I only get 9-1 and 9-2. Could have sworn I had it, at one time, tho. :scratchin
> 
> I did a re-scan, to see if i could find Bounce. No luck, but it did pick up a "second" 5-2, which turns out to be Movies! It's all trailers now, stating it will start on Memorial Day. No guide data... yet.





fluffybear said:


> I'll be interested to see if any of us get guide data for this channel.
> 
> DirecTV really needs to come up with some kind of solution for this problem..


I decided to re-initialize my HR44 OTA channel database today and do a fresh scan. I now only have a single "5-2" channel showing in the GUIDE. That said I'm still seeing guide data for WWORDT going out all next week, even though what I see on-screen are trailers for the Movie! channel. Fingers-crossed that at some point that GUIDE data gets replaced.

What's interesting is that the Rabbit Ears info below shows it as a 480i (w) channel. I assume that means "widescreen", but I'm currently seeing letterboxed video on my 16:9 display, with the HR44 set to "pillar boxed". If I set it to "stretch", it does just that, which is unacceptable. Only "crop" blows it up full-screen, so I'm not sure what the intent of the "w" designation is.

View attachment 22863


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Steve said:


> FWIW, I get DIRECTV guide data for Antenna TV. I seem to have lost Bounce tho. It's supposed to be on 9-3 here, but I only get 9-1 and 9-2. Could have sworn I had it, at one time, tho. :scratchin
> 
> I did a re-scan, to see if i could find Bounce. No luck, but it did pick up a "second" 5-2, which turns out to be Movies! It's all trailers now, stating it will start on Memorial Day. No guide data... yet.





fluffybear said:


> I'll be interested to see if any of us get guide data for this channel.
> 
> DirecTV really needs to come up with some kind of solution for this problem..


I re-initialized my HR44 OTA channel database today and re-scanned, and now I only have a single "5-2" channel showing in the GUIDE. Unfortunately it still shows the guide data for WWORDT going out all next week, even though what I see on-screen are trailers for the Movie! channel. Fingers-crossed at some point the correct guide data will be sync'd.

As you can see below, the Rabbit Ears info shows it as a 480i (w) channel. I assume that means "widescreen", but I'm currently seeing letterboxed output on my 16:9 display set to "full" and my HR44 set to "pillar boxed". If I set it the HR44 to "stretch", it does just that, which is unacceptable. Only "crop" blows it up full-screen.


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## trainman (Jan 9, 2008)

TomCat said:


> NewsCorp er, 21st Century FOX (the new name).


21st Century *Fox* (not capitalized) -- see the NewsCorp press release, for example. Note that the only thing they capitalize as FOX in that press release is the name of the broadcast network; they don't even capitalize it in "Fox Sports" and "Fox News Channel."


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

AntAltMike said:


> Fox affiliated television stations in Boston, New York, Philadelphia and Washington, DC are now identifying their X.2 subchannels as "movies". Here in Washington, DC, they put up color bars last night, and this morning, they are showing some syndicated trash called the" Trisha" show., with a distracting lower caption bar that reads
> 
> WDCA 20 - MOVIES - Washington, DC (my 20 logo)
> 
> Does anyone know where I might find program listings and schedules for this channel?


Slight correction. Channel 20 may be run by fox but it is not the DC fox affiliate. That would be 5.

It looks like the channels in question are owned or operated by Fox. Not necessarily Fox affiliates.


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## AntAltMike (Nov 21, 2004)

The Movies! programming came on a little late this morning and the mid day movies were running half an hour ahead of schedule, but at this moment WDCA 20.2 appears to be showing The Hot Rock. while their website says that are showing The Man Who Wouldn.t Die, which is fine with me, since i haven't seen The Hot Roxk since I saw it first run back around 1970


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Movies! appeared here in the LA market at midnight this morning showing promos on KCOP 13-3 (MyN TV affiliate) which is owned by Fox who's outlet is KTTV-11 (an O&O).

It's actually in 480i widescreen (16:9) in a sense, as its a 16:9 image anamorphically squeezed into a 4:3 frame which makes everything tall and skinny. So you have to annoyingly stretch it out to widescreen via the DIRECTV receiver or TV set format controls for proper display

Go figure ...


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

HoTat2 said:


> It's actually in 480i widescreen (16:9) in a sense, as its a 16:9 image anamorphically squeezed into a 4:3 frame which makes everything tall and skinny. So you have to annoyingly stretch it out to widescreen via the DIRECTV receiver or TV set format controls for proper display


Interesting. Here in NY it's letterboxed SD, so with my TV set to "full", both DirecTV pillar box and crop are anamorphically correct, with crop filling the 16:9 screen. Stretch or native make everything short and wide.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Steve said:


> Interesting. Here in NY it's letterboxed SD, so with my TV set to "full", both DirecTV pillar box and crop are anamorphically correct, with crop filling the 16:9 screen. Stretch or native make everything short and wide.


Boy ... Movies! NY picture is window-boxed (on HDTV's) and LA's here is 16:9 into 4:3 anamorphic not accounting for how all the other markets are fairing. Now throw in the scheduling inaccuracies on their web-site and we are off to a really great start with Movies!. :sure:


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## fluffybear (Jun 19, 2004)

WAGA here in Atlanta appears to be carrying Movies! in 4:3 widescreen. Checked the picture through the TV, Tivo, & DirecTV unit and they all look pretty good!

DId anyone happen to catch the disclaimer during the info screen, "This movie has been formatted to fit in more commercials" One has to appreciate such honesty!


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

It may be a little confusing, because even if FOX owns a station in your market (and WWOR is owned by FOX) they own more than one station (duopoly)in a number of markets, so it may not always be the FOX station that carries the sub. WWOR (Secacus NJ) is probably a MyNet station on 9, while WNYW is I think the FOX station in that market (NYC) on 5. So in a market such as that, _Movies! _might be on one or the other.

Also, the channel number might be from one or the other. For instance, FOX 10 in Phoenix provides a sub carried on 45 (the MyNet station in that market) that is a SD duplicate of 10, simply because the coverage on 45 is better. It is a sub of 45, but shows as 10.2. So the primary channel number is not married to the channel, as we might expect. That same MyNet channel carries _Movies! _on 45.2, so one channel can also have two ".2" designations.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Steve said:


> Interesting. Here in NY it's letterboxed SD, so with my TV set to "full", both DirecTV pillar box and crop are anamorphically correct, with crop filling the 16:9 screen. Stretch or native make everything short and wide.


Its actually that here in LA as well now. Letter-box SD, making for a window-box image on an HDTV.

Yuck...

After emailing an official for the channel, a "Patrick O'Brian," Digital Director of Fox TV about the picture formatting problem for Movies! I described earlier. His response was;



> Hi Hollis,
> Thanks for your email. There were some configuration changes required. The new Movies! Channel is a 4:3 SD channel and content will be 4:3 center cut with the occasional 16:9 content letterboxed. This is because there isn't enough room on the allotted bandwidth to run another HD stream. The "squeeze" you were referring to shouldn't happen again.
> 
> Thanks for the email!
> Patrick


Of course I never asked nor expect an HD stream for the Movies! sub-channel, just a properly formatted 480i widescreen picture.

But, oh well....


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

HoTat2 said:


> Its actually that here in LA as well now. Letter-box SD, making for a window-box image on an HDTV [....] Of course I never asked nor expect an HD stream for the Movies! sub-channel, just a properly formatted 480i widescreen picture.


Agree. Would be nice if they could emulate standard DVDs that somehow manage to fill a 16:9 screen with SD content.


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

trainman said:


> 21st Century *Fox* (not capitalized) -- see the NewsCorp press release, for example. Note that the only thing they capitalize as FOX in that press release is the name of the broadcast network; they don't even capitalize it in "Fox Sports" and "Fox News Channel."


Well, thanks for splitting hairs that do not need to be split, but when major television networks, and even most obscure cable networks, are listed by their identity (ABC, CBS, TNT, etc.) they are always capitalized. Drive by nearly any FOX owned and operated station and the logo on the outside says "FOX". I think I'll stick with the way its always been done historically, thankyouverymuch.


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

HoTat2 said:


> Its actually that here in LA as well now. Letter-box SD, making for a window-box image on an HDTV.
> 
> Yuck...
> 
> ...


I think what Mr O'Brian might have been referring to is the Active Format Descriptor metadata, which is in-program information that can dynamically tell your TV when to pillar-box (if the TV is 16:9) a 4:3 program or fill the screen with a 16:9 program while allowing older 4:3 TVs (pre-2006) that do not respond to AFD to fill the screen for 4:3 or letterbox 16:9.

While it is not a perfect solution, it solves a lot of "round peg/square hole" issues with various formats delivered to various TVs of various aspect ratios, and allows cable companies to automatically centercut for SD when necessary or letterbox for SD when necessary.

Of course if the Engineers do not program that properly, weird things can happen. In the case of _Movies!, _there may have been an initial cockpit error with AFD.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Not sure when it happened, but I'm happy to report that *Movies!* guide data finally showed up, here in the NYC suburbs.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

> Thanks, guys.
> 
> OT, but I wish everyone one would list their general location in their personal profile.


I feel certain that my location was in my profile before the software change. I noticed it was missing and had to go to my profile and enter the information once again. This might be why most people's location is not listed.
It is helpful when a person talks about programming, loss of signal, etc.


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## fluffybear (Jun 19, 2004)

Steve said:


> Not sure when it happened, but I'm happy to report that *Movies!* guide data finally showed up, here in the NYC suburbs.


Lucky you! still showing 'Regular Programming' here in Atlanta


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

fluffybear said:


> Lucky you! still showing 'Regular Programming' here in Atlanta


Are you getting it from WAGA? If so, the Rabbit Ears data below looks comparable to the NYC data, so maybe you're just a guide update or two away from seeing the correct show info? Fingers-crossed.


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## fluffybear (Jun 19, 2004)

Steve said:


> Are you getting it from WAGA? If so, the Rabbit Ears data below looks comparable to the NYC data, so maybe you're just a guide update or two away from seeing the correct show info? Fingers-crossed.


While I would like to see it! I'm not counting on it! We still do not have guide data for Antenna TV 36-3 and they have been up and running for well over a year.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

fluffybear said:


> While I would like to see it! I'm not counting on it! We still do not have guide data for Antenna TV 36-3 and they have been up and running for well over a year.


Wow, that's a shame. I record Antenna TV all the time here. I get a kick out seeing the old _Burns & Allen_ and _Jack Benny_ shows I used to watch as a kid.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

TomCat said:


> I think what Mr O'Brian might have been referring to is the Active Format Descriptor metadata, which is in-program information that can dynamically tell your TV when to pillar-box (if the TV is 16:9) a 4:3 program or fill the screen with a 16:9 program while allowing older 4:3 TVs (pre-2006) that do not respond to AFD to fill the screen for 4:3 or letterbox 16:9.
> 
> While it is not a perfect solution, it solves a lot of "round peg/square hole" issues with various formats delivered to various TVs of various aspect ratios, and allows cable companies to automatically centercut for SD when necessary or letterbox for SD when necessary.
> 
> Of course if the Engineers do not program that properly, weird things can happen. In the case of _Movies!, _there may have been an initial cockpit error with AFD.


Thanks for the suggestion TomCat;

If I'm reading you correctly you're saying maybe that Movies! is sending in 16:9 SD with AFD? But if so I'm definitely not receiving that OTA on 13-3 here in the L.A. market right now. Its definitely a 4:3 frame signal with either center-cut or a 16:9 or greater letter-box (mainly during movies) inside the 4:3 frame.

Perhaps the satellite (or whatever distribution) is coming into Fox 11 as 16:9 SD with AFD and their AFD enabled conversion equipment converting it over to 4:3 SD with center-cut or letter-box for local OTA broadcast?

Addendum: I called KTTV engineering early last week on the anamorphic squeeze issue, and at the time the tech. said they were merely passing the signal on to OTA as they receive it from the Movies! network without any format alterations, but who knows?


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

I think that probably is the case. FOX and others rarely manipulate AFD themselves. What changes is what the AFD code is on a per-program basis, and that is baked into the metadata, so is determined at origination and really not ever at the station forwarding that info, although they do have that technology.

We are seeing reports of multiple aspect ratios, possibly anamorphia, etc., from various parts of the country, but that is usually due to how folks have their TVs set (which they may not even be aware of). AFD only works between AFD-aware equipment in the delivery chain and only on AFD-aware TVs. Since it was not implemented until 2006, sets older than this will definitely not respond to it, and sets from 2007 or 2008 or even later may not either. Sending in anamorphic is never done, and sending in weird stretched modes hasn't been done since TBS and TNT finally wised up a few years ago.

This I know for sure: there is but one delivery option on the backhaul sat and that is 4:3. If it is filling your 16:9 screen it is either doing that anamorphically (stretching the image) or because the AFD code in that program is blowing up what would otherwise be a 16:9 postage stamp to fill the screen. If it is filling your 4:3 screen it is due to the natural 4:3 image. If it is letterboxing on your 4:3 screen that is because they are sending a full 16:9 image for that particular movie to HD sets with AFD. I doubt they are center-cutting at all, but maybe.

As for guide info, this is a big launch, meaning all 22 FOX O&O markets and possibly some other markets are getting it all at the same time, and that may be overwhelming Tribune or whoever handles the guide info, and they are unable to keep up. Summertime vacations and a holiday weekend does not help. They'll get there.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

fluffybear said:


> While I would like to see it! * I'm not counting on it!* We still do not have guide data for Antenna TV 36-3 and they have been up and running for well over a year.


Yes, and I'm afraid you have good reason not to count on it too ...;

Unless Movies! (or any other new main or secondary DTV sub-channel) takes over an already existing sub-channel "slot" in DIRECTV's off-air database before they stopped updating it, you will almost certainly never see any guide data appear for it. For instance I think WNYW 5-2 now has guide data since it previously existed in the database simulcasting WWOR (MyN) in SD. So the "slot" was already in the OTA database before DIRECTV stopped updating it

For instance KTLA 5-2 in LA once was This TV a few years ago and recorded in the database as such, before its slot was taken over latter by Antenna TV and KTLA opened up a new sub-channel for This TV on 5-3. Then the guide data switched over shortly on 5-2 for Antenna TV programming, but 5-3 now has none since 5-3 is not in the database.

A similar thing happened when Bounce TV took over an already existing slot at KCOP 13-2. and the guide data shortly changed accordingly for its program schedule.

Therefore if Movies! launched on a new sub-channel not already in the database like here in the LA market on KCOP 13-3, don't look for any guide data to be added. Just "Regular Schedule." on the HR34/44, which while certainly better than not getting it at all on the older H/HR2X boxes, still a PITA nevertheless when searching or channel surfing for interesting shows.


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