# Directv denies problems with receivers



## alc965

I called Directv and told them I am having issues with my receivers. I told DTV that the receivers would freeze and at time they would not respond neither with the remote nor manually. They responded that the problem was that I had too much shows on my DVR taped. When I told them that wasn't the case and that other DTV customers have the same problems, the CSR said that she had heard of no such cases and that my case was isolated. Looking for any or all suggestions,


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## texasbrit

What models of receivers do you have? Does it happen on all of them and on all or just specific channels?


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## alc965

The receivers are hr21-200 and hr20-100 .The problems occurs thru out the day. At one point the hr21 receiver wouldn't respond at all either remote or manually.


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## Stuart Sweet

These are older receivers and I wonder if it's just getting time to retire them. I doubt that there is a specific software issue that is causing these problems for you; possibly a combination of suboptimal signal going into the DVRs and slowly failing internals may be to blame.


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## alc965

That's fine The problem is that DTV refuses to admit that they have a problem with their older receiver


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## Stuart Sweet

I agree, the CSR should have conceded that the receivers are getting older. If you're saying that they should "admit" to a global problem with all receivers, I would disagree.


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## mreposter

I'm surprised that the CSR didn't attempt any basic trouble-shooting - asking you to reboot, or if you might have devices that might be interfering with the signal.


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## Rob77

These receivers take forever to change channels or any other function. Shouldn't they provide free upgrades to provide decent service?? After all....many of us do not have the advantage of getting free units like some people on DBSTalk do


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## Stuart Sweet

Slow channel changes are unfortunately part of the satellite experience, especially with something like 17 satellites in 6 locations. I agree there are receivers that change channels more quickly, and there is some effect from improving software. However, we've seen here on this forum over and over that simply changing out the receiver doesn't have a consistent impact on channel change speed.


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## alc965

DTV offered to replace my old receivers with reconditioned receivers. I said I believe that won't solve the problems if they weer to send me the same models. They again said I shouldn't have a problems since they have never heard of any problems with these models.They inferred that I have defective receivers


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## Stuart Sweet

Unless you specifically say you need a receiver for antenna programming, it's unlikely you'll get another HR20. You may get an HR21 or HR22.

Sometimes CSRs overstep their limits, but I think they meant to say there is no overwhelming evidence that one receiver model is prone to problems throughout its production run. Some people here swear by their -700 models or -500 models, but over the entire customer base they just aren't seeing a real difference in quality between manufacturers. 

That said, we heard a lot of complaints about HR20-100s when they first came out and I do personally think that some of the very early ones weren't that great.


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## sunking

Stuart Sweet said:


> I agree, the CSR should have conceded that the receivers are getting older. If you're saying that they should "admit" to a global problem with all receivers, I would disagree.


Where does he say "all" anywhere? He says receivers, as in more than one and not an isolated case for him. Seriously, look at the hdgui thread. It's loaded with issues that seem to need addressing and certainly warrant the word "receivers" being used. the CSR is the void of Directv, and in my view they are basically telling customers with legitimate complaints to go pound sand with issues that we are having with receivers we are paying a monthly fee for to work like garbage.


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## scottchez

I have Two old HR20s they worked great for years. Ever since the new Guide upgraded they are slow to un usable at times.

Any one try going to settings to do a completed system reset, I think it reformats the hard drive and reloads the software. Anyone try it?


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## alc965

Exactly. The CSR in not so many word told to pound sand. She said the problem is caused with my using the DVR too much. When refused to listen to any other explanation I may have had. I believe that DTV is aware of the problems and are instructing the CSR to toe the company line.


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## Mike Greer

DirecTV is never going to admit to a problem. If they did it could be used against them in future. The way things are going it is going to take a lawsuit to get them to make the receivers reliably respond to the remote!:eek2:

No doubt that someone in DirecTV engineering knows what's going on and is hopefully ever-so-slowly heading back to the usual 'slowness' we had before they 'upgraded' to the HD GUI.

I still have two HR22s... Before the 'upgrade' to the HD GUI they would generally work although very slowly at everything. Now after the HD GUI I wouldn't even call them functional. Even my HR24-500s are much much slower after the HD GUI. The HR22s can sometimes take 45+ seconds to bring up the list of recorded programs. Forget being able to type a channel number in without first waiting for another screen to come up then entering the channel number.

Let's face it - after years of these problems DirecTV obviously doesn't consider their receivers to have problems.


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## davring

scottchez said:


> I have Two old HR20s they worked great for years. Ever since the new Guide upgraded they are slow to un usable at times.
> 
> Ditto.
> 
> Mine used to slow at times and then recover and work properly for days at a time. Now they go from very slow to almost unusable. I have been very patient for a very long time as they worked through different issues, but this is the worst I ever recall.


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## Bamasat

its like the 200 HD channel propaganda and the whole home tv commercials.
Legal> maybe
Ethical>.. not hardly
So the "no problem with the receivers" is an expected statement.

BUT
Swapping your receivers out at COST ($399 + maybe? or even maybe the word "soon") And for something you will Never own?
Ohhh but you do get that With the ticket of 2 yrs of MRC (monthly reoccurring charges) for the programming.
Then comes That word again... "lease" ?.

This? and to fix what they themselves implemented......? 
Priceless and says to me....
"only foools ( and/or fan boys) should or will run in!"


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## raott

Stuart Sweet said:


> These are older receivers and I wonder if it's just getting time to retire them. I doubt that there is a specific software issue that is causing these problems for you; possibly a combination of suboptimal signal going into the DVRs and slowly failing internals may be to blame.


My guess is the problem that he is describing is the same issue being discussed among multiple, very long threads regarding the extremely slow DVRs since the HD GUI, which at times, manifests itself with the DVR not responding. Nothing to do with failing internals and bad signal.

Just a guess and I may be wrong.


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## Bamasat

raott said:


> My guess is the problem that he is describing is the same issue being discussed among multiple, very long threads regarding the extremely slow DVRs since the HD GUI, which at times, manifests itself with the DVR not responding. Nothing to do with failing internals and bad signal.
> 
> Just a guess and I may be wrong.


I - *THINK* he already knows that no matter the display.

PANDORA!


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## skyboysea

I complained again about the slowness of my HR20-700 and here's the solutions they gave me:


> 1. Delete recordings from the Prioritizer or Series Manager and delete any unused recordings.
> 2. Turn off Resolutions [Native Mode].
> 3. Turn off Scrolling Effects.


So, 1 basically says not to use the DRV as DVR; 2 and 3 say that they know they put some functions in the receivers that makes them run slow so I should disable them. Why aren't they disabled by default or removed altogether?

Again on suggestion 1, I had to replace my receiver few weeks ago and with now shows in the playlist and no SL it was quite fast. As soon as I have added 2 SL it slowed down to a crawl. So it might be true that SL cause the slowness just the solution given is idiotic.


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## Bamasat

skyboysea said:


> I complained again about the slowness of my HR20-700 and here's the solutions they gave me:
> 
> So, 1 basically says not to use the DRV as DVR; 2 and 3 say that they know they put some functions in the receivers that makes them run slow so I should disable them. Why aren't they disabled by default or removed altogether?
> 
> Again on suggestion 1, I had to replace my receiver few weeks ago and with now shows in the playlist and no SL it was quite fast. As soon as I have added 2 SL it slowed down to a crawl. So it might be true that SL cause the slowness just the solution given is idiotic.


It wont help,
I have had those features disabled for a long time prior to their "oversize for the box" (receiver) implementation(*S).

Maybe
They shouldve told you to go read the guide but dont use it or any menu key functions. ??

OR 
just say " watch youtube and, listen to Pandora" on your *TV box.

Btw 
"we Also offer Tv apps... but you cant use them nor do they appear".


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## sigma1914

We need 1 topic for all the complaining some people do repeatedly. It seems every topic is the same...

A newer or less active member posts about speed.
Same members pile on about how the boxes suck.
Some good folks suggest possible tips.
More complaining.
Rinse, lather, repeat.





The software is jacked up, it's being worked on, and there's not much anyone can do.


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## mnassour

I don't want to hear another DirecTV rep claim they've "never" heard of the slowness problem.

I've been haggling with them all week about slowness, and other issues, on my two HR20-700s. Oh, they did offer to upgdrade me...to HR21s.

No thanks.

One of the 700s choked so badly that it couldn't be booted with the red button, I had to yank the power cord...at which point it promptly downloaded the national release software (that it already had). When this box choked, it was downloading a program from the Net, recording one from DirecTV, and playing back a third, all in HD.

These older boxes just *do not have the horsepower* to keep up with the new features.

They will NEVER admit to a general problem with the older HRs. If DirecTV didn't have MHZw on 2183, I'd be a Dish customer this afternoon.


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## Mike Greer

sigma1914 said:


> We need 1 topic for all the complaining some people do repeatedly. It seems every topic is the same...
> 
> A newer or less active member posts about speed.
> Same members pile on about how the boxes suck.
> Some good folks suggest possible tips.
> More complaining.
> Rinse, lather, repeat.
> 
> The software is jacked up, it's being worked on, and there's not much anyone can do.


I admit it - most of my posts are complaints.

I'm glad to see that you said "The software is jacked up, it's being worked on, and there's not much anyone can do." That is about as true as it gets. Turning this off, clearing that etc - isn't going to fix what they've done.

I just hope they are really working on it. It seems that the same cycle has already started for the HR34. You'd think they'd get tired and/or embarrassed or something and break the cycle.

I promise to quit *****ing as soon as DirecTV stops screwing up their 'updates'.


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## Bamasat

sigma1914 said:


> We need 1 topic for all the complaining some people do repeatedly. It seems every topic is the same...
> 
> A newer or less active member posts about speed.
> Same members pile on about how the boxes suck.
> Some good folks suggest possible tips.
> More complaining.
> Rinse, lather, repeat.
> 
> The software is jacked up, it's being worked on, and there's not much anyone can do.


Sounds like you have selective reasoning.
Own stock in D*?

Fyi ive had D* since early 96.
have no stock
am not using this forum as a stepping stone to get a job with D*.
(see a number of moderators and "fan boys" who DID/ DO).
Some how that might reflect there is TRUTH.

Btw
You and your post/ defenses remind me of.... Colt Mccoy. ("they beat on me"... Or i mean D* )
Roll tide.


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## Jodean

Mike Greer said:


> DirecTV is never going to admit to a problem. .


That is very true, and if they do admit it, its about a year or so after the fact.

I spent 6 months with non working equipment on EVERY job i did.

They finally announced there were issues with the wnc swm lnb and h24-700 receivers, after 6 months of troubles and my wasted time and gas swapping all this stuff out.


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## Bamasat

Jodean said:


> That is very true, and if they do admit it, its about a year or so after the fact.
> 
> I spent 6 months with non working equipment on EVERY job i did.
> 
> They finally announced there were issues with the wnc swm lnb and h24-700 receivers, after 6 months of troubles and my wasted time and gas swapping all this stuff out.


That has to be your fault and im Sure deserves an UN justified BUT implemented "charge back".


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## sigma1914

Bamasat said:


> ...
> 
> Btw
> You and your post/ defenses remind me of.... Colt Mccoy. ("they beat on me"... Or i mean D* )
> Roll tide.


Your posts remind me of a former Alabama member who I believe was banned. He used to fire off similar rants with poor sentence structure, as well. Coincidence? :eek2:


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## cptaylor

I've gone back and forth with D about my HR22's a few times hoping that they would give me a free or discounted upgrade. But they just play dumb and tell me to reset it or turn off scrolling effects. I know a few people who are recent subs and when I use their HR24 I get jealous of the quick response time.

It's gotten to the point where I'm considering canceling for a while to go with Comcast. I'm hoping D will miss me enough to offer me a great deal to come back (been a Premier sub with HD extra for 3 years now). All I really want are new receivers.


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## Bamasat

sigma1914 said:


> Your posts remind me of a former Alabama member who I believe was banned. He used to fire off similar rants with poor sentence structure, as well. Coincidence? :eek2:


Maybe its Just that we crimson tide , southern folks believe in Simple...
.... TRUTH.

Edit:
Btw i just tried to tune to shoTime 545.
I ended up at TMC (non HD West version) after simply using the channel button on the remote.(un countable multiple times)

For 399 i can change that under "lease"-less and give them 24 months More.
hmmm.? decisions???
like i said, simply for FOOOLS.


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## inf0z

Chances are you wont get the same models.


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## Bamasat

i know,
i can give D 399$ to fix their own short comings with 1200$+ more over two yrs and then give Samsung and the "america's big box store" 2700$, AND then fix all this.


Solved:


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## mreposter

mnassour said:


> If DirecTV didn't have MHZw on 2183, I'd be a Dish customer this afternoon.


What's MHZw?
I don't see anything on 2183.


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## MarkG21

OP: Just a suggestion

Go out and buy (lease) an HR-24 from retail and call direcTV for a credit. I state that because I've read that people on this board has successfully done just that. It might work, it might not work. If it doesn't work, simply return the receiver. It may take the retention department to give you the credit. Just a suggestion.


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## brucec32

We have 2 HD DVRs and both suck. The new guide seems a little better, but there are frequent freeze ups where nothing responds briefly and channel changes can take 10 seconds sometimes. One unit will "double tap" with one button push, and I usually go to a channel by just "getting close" (hitting 236 but getting 233) and scrolling to the channel I actually want. 

I'm not picky, I just want to be able to change channels like I could on a $99 19" tv set 20 years ago. 

Been a customer since '98. It seems to me the easy part of the service is where they're falling down. Lying about it when customers call is not something I like to support with my dollars. And it's beyond the pale that I have to pay to get units that actually work when they're "leased" but I've already had to pay $200-$300 for them. 

I'm investigating other options for the first time seriously.


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## Mike Bertelson

Let's stay on topic. Stop discussing each other. 

Mike


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## photostudent

If anyone goes from a cable box to a satellite receiver they may be shocked at the slowness but that is just the nature of the technology. That said my HR21 has it hills and valleys in performance and the last couple weeks have been one of those valleys. The slowdowns seem to work themselves out so I just wait it out. I guess it would not be an impressive time for a new customer to come on.


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## sunking

sigma1914 said:


> The software is jacked up, it's being worked on, and there's not much anyone can do.


Actually there is someone that can do something. Directv could offer money off my bill for my frustrations. Their contract terms do a pretty good job of deterring many peoples other option which is changing providers.


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## mnassour

mreposter said:


> What's MHZw?
> I don't see anything on 2183.


You won't, unless you have the International Dish in addition to your regular setup.

Rather than hijack the thread, let me point you toward the website. Basically, MHZw is a public access channel, given at no extra charge, that is a wealth of international news and programming (including Aussie Football!) all in English or subtitled.

http://mhznetworks.org/


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## mnassour

MarkG21 said:


> OP: Just a suggestion
> 
> Go out and buy (lease) an HR-24 from retail and call direcTV for a credit. I state that because I've read that people on this board has successfully done just that. It might work, it might not work. If it doesn't work, simply return the receiver. It may take the retention department to give you the credit. Just a suggestion.


I've got two HR20s. I'd need two HR24s and two AM21Ns, for a total of $500 from Solid Signal. Has anyone had any luck in getting that much credit from DirecTV for that kind for equipment? No kidding, I'd sign a two year contract for that.



brucec32 said:


> We have 2 HD DVRs and both suck. The new guide seems a little better, but there are frequent freeze ups where nothing responds briefly and channel changes can take 10 seconds sometimes. One unit will "double tap" with one button push, and I usually go to a channel by just "getting close" (hitting 236 but getting 233) and scrolling to the channel I actually want.
> 
> I'm not picky, I just want to be able to change channels like I could on a $99 19" tv set 20 years ago.
> 
> Been a customer since '98. It seems to me the easy part of the service is where they're falling down. Lying about it when customers call is not something I like to support with my dollars. And it's beyond the pale that I have to pay to get units that actually work when they're "leased" but I've already had to pay $200-$300 for them.
> 
> I'm investigating other options for the first time seriously.


I cannot tell you how similar our situations are. It appears that unless you have HR24s or HR34s, you are simply NOT going to get the speed you might have a couple of years ago.

Recently, I had to pull the plug on one of my HR20s, it wouldn't even respond to the red button. After it came back, it re-downloaded the national release and has been...somewhat...stable since.

One thing's for sure...when you call in, you will receive the exact same song and dance from everyone you talk to, no matter what office they are in. They could have 90% of all receivers catch on fire some Saturday morning and that afternoon, they'd still be saying "you're the first person to tell us that!"

As far as changing channels as quickly as that $99 TV, forget that. You can't even do that with a NEW off air set. After all, digital is better, right? Well...in some aspects, no so much.

What helped me the most was a complete unplug, forced download of the national software, and turning off the damned scrolling effects. Put those three together along with a hard drive that's less than half full, and my HR20s are almost acceptable.

DirecTV has poured hundreds and hundreds, if not thousands, of channels into these things....and given that they're working with a system that was designed in the 1990s, the older boxes just can't handle it.


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## Rich

skyboysea said:


> I complained again about the slowness of my HR20-700 and here's the solutions they gave me:
> 
> So, 1 basically says not to use the DRV as DVR; 2 and 3 say that they know they put some functions in the receivers that makes them run slow so I should disable them. Why aren't they disabled by default or removed altogether?
> 
> Again on suggestion 1, I had to replace my receiver few weeks ago and with now shows in the playlist and no SL it was quite fast. As soon as I have added 2 SL it slowed down to a crawl. So it might be true that SL cause the slowness just the solution given is idiotic.


The number of Series Links seems to have absolutely no adverse effect on the HRs. Several of my 12 HRs have 50 SLs and, except for the problems caused by the HD GUI, I see no problems with my HRs whether they have twenty or fifty SLs. I don't have any 21 series HRs except for a rarely used 21-200, and I wouldn't have another 21 in my home under any circumstances. I'd rather buy my replacements on eBay or CL.

Rich


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## HobbyTalk

IMHO it's poorly designed software, hardware and/or system used to store the information. I recently switched from Dish to Direct and my 3 year old VIP622 is light years faster then the new HR34 when responding to remote buttons and channel changes. This is even after a couple of days the HR34 was in used to settle down. Funny thing is, the Dish's VIP series doesn't need 12-24 hours to stabilize when new or the software is updated.


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## sdk009

I too called Friday (4/6) to get help with a H20-700 that keeps re-booting itself and then will not re-authorize via the web. I complained about it and the recent performance of my HR20-100 and the CSR repeated the same bull about "solid dependable equipment, blah,blah, blah." He didn't want to take the time to research why the H20 keeps re-setting itself, not did her even care to ask any questions after I raised the issue about the HR20. 
I just received a survey from D* about my experience and I sent it back with my comments. I doubt if anything will come of my response, which is par for D*
I don't want to swtich providers, but I would expect more since I've been a sub since 1996.


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## JohnDG

Mike Greer said:


> I still have two HR22s... Before the 'upgrade' to the HD GUI they would generally work although very slowly at everything. Now after the HD GUI I wouldn't even call them functional. Even my HR24-500s are much much slower after the HD GUI. The HR22s can sometimes take 45+ seconds to bring up the list of recorded programs. Forget being able to type a channel number in without first waiting for another screen to come up then entering the channel number.


I have two HR22's that I received new this year: same problem.

See http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=201370 for a discussion of the problems with this release.

jdg


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## Podkayne

This may constitute "piling on" the thread, but my HR 20-100 is still slow as molasses. Ever since it downloaded the redoubtable 0x59e NR, it has been resistant to all efforts to restore it to its previous reasonable level of performance. 

All I want is a DVR that works like it is supposed to, with a reasonable level of responsiveness. Prior to Feb. 9th, 2012, that is exactly what I had. Now, I do not. DirecTV has breached their end of our contract, and as a 17 1/2 year subscriber I am entitled to redress of this grievance, and such redress shouldn't cost me anything to implement.

My patience with DirecTV has never grown so short, and my frustration never so great, as they are right now. I would hate to end a heretofore pleasant business relationship over a stupid hardware/software issue, but after the Masters is over this weekend I may just pull the trigger. This stupid HR 20-100 is utterly intolerable as it is right now.


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## Bamasat

Frozen UI again this morning after 2-3 uses.
No response to "exit" and stuck in a useless PIG that now days even has no trick play.

So back to: (AGAIN)
RBR and "just a few more seconds".

-What clock are these "seconds" measured with anyway?
the "soon" clock?

I know its definitely multiple minutes here on central time .


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## Rich

Bamasat said:


> Frozen UI again this morning after 2-3 uses.
> No response to "exit" and stuck in a useless PIG that now days even has no trick play.
> 
> So back to: (AGAIN)
> RBR and "just a few more seconds".
> 
> -What clock are these "seconds" measured with anyway?
> the "soon" clock?
> 
> I know its definitely multiple minutes here on central time .


All this should be taken care of soon. We've been thru these nightmares before, they'll fix the problems, just need some patience.

Rich


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## Bamasat

In my case they are not tearing up something they consider on their farce of a "lease". I see my situation as a completely different boat.

IE: I Own all my boxes and have since 1996.
All wire, all dishes, all switches, and all networking.
My dollar, My hands.
Never a D person on this property.

I pay for signal and function ability.
I am not getting that. 

"Their" answer is to give them more money and then be on my first lease in history. 

So like i said with amounts above, i could in essence spend over 2400$ + programming commitment, 399$ new hardware, and if i go by what a lost CSR may say.. up to 2700$ on an RVU tv.
Hmm, i just bought a very very nice SUV for less than that by far.


They didnt break "theirs",
They broke MINE.
Go figure.:nono2:


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## mreposter

mnassour said:


> You won't, unless you have the International Dish in addition to your regular setup.
> 
> Rather than hijack the thread, let me point you toward the website. Basically, MHZw is a public access channel, given at no extra charge, that is a wealth of international news and programming (including Aussie Football!) all in English or subtitled.
> 
> http://mhznetworks.org/


Thanks, I'd never heard of this network.


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## MarkG21

Bamasat said:


> "Their" answer is to give them more money and then be on my first lease in history.
> 
> *So like i said with amounts above, i could in essence spend over 2400$ *+ programming commitment, 399$ new hardware, and if i go by what a lost CSR may say.. up to 2700$ on an RVU tv.
> Hmm, i just bought a very very nice SUV for less than that by far.
> 
> They didnt break "theirs",
> They broke MINE.
> Go figure.:nono2:


Can you please elaborate the $2,400?


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## Bamasat

MarkG21 said:


> Can you please elaborate the $2,400?


111$ per month (my bill) for 24 consecutive months. 
( the contract term to and after upgrade of EQ times amount per month with current programming = over 2400$)


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## BobStokesbary

If I can offer one more thing to check. I was really pissed about how clunky my HR24 was getting. It was taking a VERY LONG TIME to respond to my remote. Exasperated, I finally changed the batteries in my remote (which are only a year old) and things are good again. I thought the remotes either worked or they didn't. But, with weak batteries they can apparently cause things to be really slow too.


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## Bamasat

BobStokesbary said:


> If I can offer one more thing to check. I was really pissed about how clunky my HR24 was getting. It was taking a VERY LONG TIME to respond to my remote. Exasperated, I finally changed the batteries in my remote (which are only a year old) and things are good again. I thought the remotes either worked or they didn't. But, with weak batteries they can apparently cause things to be really slow too.


thanks
But a large commercial emergency diesel generator wired to the remote with 100cm,
wouldnt fix this.

Ive changed batteries multiple times.
(have 2 rf remotes per IRD fed tv - not considering/including back feed/mirror locations)


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## jahgreen

I'm not a complainer. More often I'm a skeptic regarding folks' complaints.

But this time I have to agree. I've concluded the new, HD GUI is a disaster. Our HR20-700 was entirely satisfactory before the new GUI. Now it's like molasses in January. PLUS everyone's lost functionality in the PIG.

I see no significant gains to counterbalance the negatives. The guide looks prettier. So what?


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## billsharpe

I gave up on slow DirecTV receivers six months ago and switched to FiOS.

I can see after reading through this thread and others that I did the right thing, even though I had to pay an 8-month termination fee.

I went to the doctor's office last week and my blood pressure was lower than it has been in a couple of years. <g>


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## Bamasat

> *billsharpe* I gave up on slow DirecTV receivers six months ago and switched to FiOS.
> 
> I can see after reading through this thread and others that I did the right thing, even though I had to pay an 8-month termination fee.
> 
> I went to the doctor's office last week and my blood pressure was lower than it has been in a couple of years. <g>


My billing cycle ends the 22nd of this month.
For the first time since the mid 90's i may be getting ESPN from a different source.

Also,
Next week i will be speaking with someone going forward considering all my Owned EQ (personal property) and my options considering this debacle.
Appointment made.


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## scottchez

This helps

Delete movies till hard drive is 50% free

Then pull power cord for 60 seconds, then plug back in

Seems faster, bet I need to do this weekly


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## QuickDrop

My $0.02.

I have three HD DVRs, an HR20 and 2 HR22.

The HR20 has sounded like it's been about to die for the past six months and it's HDMI connection is iffy. It got the recent software updates and responds as well or better than before.

My two HR22 didn't get my most recent update (the one that included Pandora) until at least three weeks after my HR20. One HR22 works the same while the other HR22 has had numerous slowdowns and can be unresponsive, despite resets and all that jazz.

The only moral I can find from my own experience is that there doesn't seem to be a universal "true" experience when it comes to hardware/software.


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## freerein100

I know we shouldn't need to do this but if anyone is having the slow response problem try going to channel 1 and pressing red,red,blue,blue,yellow,green....... it normally helps on my HR20-700's


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## mnassour

freerein100 said:


> I know we shouldn't need to do this but if anyone is having the slow response problem try going to channel 1 and pressing red,red,blue,blue,yellow,green....... it normally helps on my HR20-700's


OK, what the heck is that? Never heard of that trick. Is it something from Directv's engineers?


----------



## Go Beavs

mnassour said:


> OK, what the heck is that? Never heard of that trick. Is it something from Directv's engineers?


That clears the unit's nonvolatile ram and it can sometimes speed up a box with problems.


----------



## Rich

jahgreen said:


> I'm not a complainer. More often I'm a skeptic regarding folks' complaints.
> 
> But this time I have to agree. I've concluded the new, HD GUI is a disaster. Our HR20-700 was entirely satisfactory before the new GUI. Now it's like molasses in January. PLUS everyone's lost functionality in the PIG.
> 
> I see no significant gains to counterbalance the negatives. * The guide looks prettier. So what?*


Got a good chuckle out of that brief summation....:lol:

Rich


----------



## AntAltMike

Mike Greer said:


> DirecTV is never going to admit to a problem.


Back in 2002, when Sony stopped manufacturing receivers but put its brand name on Hughes receivers, the receivers called Hughes GAEBO/GCEBO and Sony B65/A65 were turkeys and had all kinds of problems that neither Hughes or Sony would acknowledge. Hughes didn't reply to the distress messages I left for them on their dedicated DirecTV receiver service line and then they had that line permanently rerouted to DirecTV, and Sony would not reply to e-mail complaints.

Then, this guest post was authored by someone calling himself TrustMe

From DBSTalk, October 27, 2002:
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=63960#post63960

_
The long awaited download for the GAEB0/GCEB0 models has already begun. The new software version number will be 5075. Here are more details and the current download schedule:

October 14th- October 15th - will download at 1:20 AM PST to the state of Colorado only to customers with P3 cards.
October 16th - will download at 1:20 AM PST to the Mountain Time Zone to P3 cards only.
October 17th - will download at 1:20 AM PST to the Pacific Time Zone to P3 cards only.
October 22nd - will download at 1:20 AM PST to the Central Time Zone to P3 cards only.
October 23rd - will download at 1:20 AM PST to the Eastern Time Zone and to all cards including P4 cards.
On October 29th - we will begin a download at 2:20 PM PST to hit the retailers that unplug their boxes at night and missed the download.

Per DIRECTV, this whole schedule is based on call volume. If they receive a large amount of calls from this download, they will stop the download.

Here is the message the user will see appear on screen:

"Congratulations! You have just received a software upgrade that improves the performance of your DIRECTV(TM) receiver. During this process, your Favorites List and WatchWord settings have been reset. If you use those features, you will need to re-customize those settings.
Please press OK to return to video."

The download is optional so if the user is watching television he/she will get an option to do the download "Now" or "Later". If the box is off when the download comes, the user will receive the download. If the user does not choose "Now" or "Later" the box will automatically begin downloading. Once the download begins, it will take about 5 minutes to complete. Once the download is finished, the user will be taken back to video. When the user presses a key on the remote control or bezel of the unit, the message above will appear. To clear the message, the user must press "Select" or "Clear".

*Here is a list of items that this download fixes:

Provides better audio/video processing to minimize video freeze conditions as experienced in some local-n-local spot beam transmissions.
Improves the performance of the Watch Word feature.
Corrects the behavior of Favorite Lists so that new channels are not automatically added to the list .
Corrects potential caller-id condition not displaying information on incoming calls.
Prevents intermittent double keystrokes and random channel change.
Improves tuner performance at channel change.
Updates all logos to the current advanced program guide versions.
Corrects some MDU transponder performance issues.
Corrects intermittent channel changes seen by some customers.

*Even more great news!

The losing time and guide issues have been corrected in the HNS GAEB0A and GCEB0A models. A software patch was broadcast on Thursday evening. October 17th that corrects the issue. The IRD will not require a re-boot. The download will be completely transparent to the end user. The way to confirm the unit has successfully received the patch is to go to the "Test" screen to view the s/w version number. IRDs without the patch have version number 5599.0.3. IRDs with the patch have version 5599.1.3._

The archived name associated with this post is now "testme". Back in that era, when someone authored a guest post at DBSTalk, after a few months the user name was changed. I've been active here for ten years myself, but didn't register at first, and then some registrations got wiped out after that, so my 2004 Join Date makes me look like a newbie. 

A couple of weeks later, Sony replied to my complaint. They simply apologized for not replying earlier and said that since they hadn't heard from me again, they would just assume that I had managed to remedy my problems myself and so they would not be contacting me further regarding this matter.

Someone over at DBSForums who claimed to be familiar with DirecTV's contracting practices at the time said that a receiver manufacturer was entitled to one "free" software update download, after which they would incur significant financial penalties if any later ones were required, so the receiver manufacturers might have been averse to develop and send out revised software too early on in the manufacture interval for fear of incurring financial penalties if other bugs were discovered. Caveat: the "insider" who posted that was also anonymous and so its validity cannot be verified.


----------



## Bamasat

I still have the Hughes GXCEBOT - the original Hughes directv tivo . 
(1998/1999 & got it before the public could touch it).
It still sits here within reach.

Still Got the sony boxes, the Rca's (drd's), the samsungs, and every hughes prob every made and every one of D*'s boxes (besides 34/24).

Summary:
NDS and rupert himself with his Blatant dirty D* deeds (done dirt cheap) ...,.....
(for profit and at All costs)

And. .. Here we sit.


----------



## AntAltMike

Bamasat said:


> ... Still Got the sony boxes, the Rca's (drd's),


The RCAs had a hidden service screen they wouldn't tell you about. If you press in "info" and left arrow at the same time, you can access them. And on the early Sonys - B2 or B3, I forget - if you press in "Menu" and "down" at the same time, you used to be able to actually incrementally adjust a destacker input frequency, so you could even use it with Global/Foxcom 600 MHz frequency shifted systems.


----------



## Bamasat

> so you could even use it with Global/Foxcom 600 MHz frequency shifted systems.


Wow! i forgot about that!

Yep mike,
Most of these people here have no clue to "the history".
*blind to facts also.

I saw the writing on the wall when News corp, NDS, and Rupert stepped near.

Sooon after, came THE " LEASE" program and "their Trap".
I went to cicuit city and bought up stuff before the eminent day in March was approaching. (r-15's ect ect)

Our trade (mike) implemented the rest of the EQ. 
As still to this day "they" have never stepped near here (said with pride)

I quit supporting them, years ago and gave up a high high (as you can attest)
reward in doing so. (Mdu's and all!!)

Reason: simple ethics and i cant believe to this day i still pay them for signal knowing all of what i know.
I aim to finally change that and shamefull enough finally:
due to this debacle (Dvrs ect) and simply ive had enough for supporting such
BS. Its not even fair biz practice to the end user IMHO.

Like i said somewhere else in this forum and regarding the hacker Rupert story....
"this "aint" GM, hughes nor USSB". - Ethics? NONE.

Its a farce in most of these people eyes and i guarentee if most knew what we know and had 1 once of ethical fortitude, they would be gone too.

Ahhh then Came Malone.. (different story)


----------



## mnassour

Go Beavs said:


> That clears the unit's nonvolatile ram and it can sometimes speed up a box with problems.


Thanks! Will be trying that tonight.


----------



## makaiguy

mnassour said:


> Thanks! Will be trying that tonight.


When you go to channel 1, let it completely load before you start pressing the colored buttons.


----------



## wahooq

disabling the remote id works also


----------



## heisman

jahgreen said:


> I'm not a complainer. More often I'm a skeptic regarding folks' complaints.
> 
> But this time I have to agree. I've concluded the new, HD GUI is a disaster. Our HR20-700 was entirely satisfactory before the new GUI. Now it's like molasses in January. PLUS everyone's lost functionality in the PIG.
> 
> I see no significant gains to counterbalance the negatives. The guide looks prettier. So what?


+1


----------



## mnassour

Today, my HR20s were replaced by HR24s. Don't let anyone, _anyone, *anyone*_, tell you there's no difference in speed.


----------



## Shades228

mnassour said:


> Today, my HR20s were replaced by HR24s. Don't let anyone, _anyone, *anyone*_, tell you there's no difference in speed.


Now get 50 SL's on each box and get those HD's 98% full.


----------



## mnassour

Shades228 said:


> Now get 50 SL's on each box and get those HD's 98% full.


Good point, but the 20s had been cleared and the drives were all but blank. Yes, we did it all....and it made no difference.


----------



## Shades228

mnassour said:


> Good point, but the 20s had been cleared and the drives were all but blank. Yes, we did it all....and it made no difference.


The 24s will still be faster but it's like installing a fresh OS on a new computer and drooling at the boot time. Then you start to actually use the computer.

Most people complain about speed and they have maxxed out SL's and constant HD Free space of 10% or less.

There are some legit complaints as well as I've had times where you can tell it's doing something in the background because it doesn't respond right away but then it catches up and is fine. If I were someone who watched live TV and channel hopped a lot I could see how this would be a problem if it did it all the time.

I'm also, apparently, in a minority where I don't use my DVR's as archives or keep SL's around that I no longer use.


----------



## Crow159

Shades228 said:


> Most people complain about speed and they have maxxed out SL's and constant HD Free space of 10% or less.
> 
> There are some legit complaints as well as I've had times where you can tell it's doing something in the background because it doesn't respond right away but then it catches up and is fine. If I were someone who watched live TV and channel hopped a lot I could see how this would be a problem if it did it all the time.
> 
> I'm also, apparently, in a minority where I don't use my DVR's as archives or keep SL's around that I no longer use.


I have about 20 to 30 SLs on each of my HR21s and right now have 89% free space on one HR21 and 92% free space on the other, and they are slow as molasses more often than not. My R22, which my daughter uses, is just as slow. It has 15 SLs and 25% Free space. When she complains about the speed, I tell her to clean out her playlist and it should get better, which it does around the 50% free mark.

By comparison, my HR24 has 36 SLs and is currently at 74% free space and it is fast more often than not. It has moments where it acts a little sluggish, but it's only a couple seconds and it recovers quickly and is then as fast as ever.

So what's causing my slowness on the HR21s if it's not "maxed out SLs and 10% Free space"? They were good with speed right after the HD Guide update but after the Pandora one, they both went way downhill. They have always been a little slow, but it wasn't really that bad. Now, it's the worst I've ever seen. I've never had a days trouble with any of them, except for this speed issue. I just hope that Directv addresses it in a future update.


----------



## raott

Shades228 said:


> The 24s will still be faster but it's like installing a fresh OS on a new computer and drooling at the boot time. Then you start to actually use the computer.
> 
> Most people complain about speed and they have maxxed out SL's and constant HD Free space of 10% or less.
> 
> There are some legit complaints as well as I've had times where you can tell it's doing something in the background because it doesn't respond right away but then it catches up and is fine. If I were someone who watched live TV and channel hopped a lot I could see how this would be a problem if it did it all the time.
> 
> I'm also, apparently, in a minority where I don't use my DVR's as archives or keep SL's around that I no longer use.


I have a handful of SLs and plenty of space (not close to 10% at any given time). I agree the HRs will slow down with what you describe, but that is not what is going on with the current issue. It was like a lightswitch, the speed was acceptable before the HDGUI and unacceptable after.


----------



## Mike Greer

Shades228 said:


> Most people complain about speed and they have maxxed out SL's and constant HD Free space of 10% or less.
> 
> There are some legit complaints as well.....


Sorry, but, complaining about the speed when you have 50 SL's and 2% free is still a legit complaint. If the engineers can't write code that can handle 50 SL's and no free space then they should lower the limits to what they can handle. Don't expect the public to limit themselves...

Maybe DirecTV should say their hardware can only handle 25 SL's and you can't use half of the available storage?

It isn't the paying customer's fault that the DVRs can't perform as advertised.


----------



## bobcamp1

Mike Greer said:


> Sorry, but, complaining about the speed when you have 50 SL's and 2% free is still a legit complaint. If the engineers can't write code that can handle 50 SL's and no free space then they should lower the limits to what they can handle. Don't expect the public to limit themselves...
> 
> Maybe DirecTV should say their hardware can only handle 25 SL's and you can't use half of the available storage?
> 
> It isn't the paying customer's fault that the DVRs can't perform as advertised.


+1

Note that almost none of their competitors have a speed problem as they get full (certainly not Tivo, Dish, or FIOS). And they don't even have a SL limit!


----------



## lparsons21

bobcamp1 said:


> +1
> 
> Note that almost none of their competitors have a speed problem as they get full (certainly not Tivo, Dish, or FIOS). And they don't even have a SL limit!


+1 on the speed, but Dish does have SL limits too. Higher than D*'s in most cases, but still a limit.

I'm more concerned that D* claims their receivers don't have a speed problem that with the actual problem itself. Denying the existence makes you wonder just where on the priority list fixing a denied problem is. 

Right now on my 3 HR24s, the actual speed is fine WHEN it pays attention to the remote. It is getting more and more often that it just ignores keystrokes. Unless something changes I'm just a very few months away from curing the issue.


----------



## mnassour

Mike Greer said:


> Sorry, but, complaining about the speed when you have 50 SL's and 2% free is still a legit complaint. If the engineers can't write code that can handle 50 SL's and no free space then they should lower the limits to what they can handle. Don't expect the public to limit themselves...
> 
> Maybe DirecTV should say their hardware can only handle 25 SL's and you can't use half of the available storage?
> 
> It isn't the paying customer's fault that the DVRs can't perform as advertised.


No free space.....that's a problem with *any* computer which, let's face it, is what these things really are. The SLs are another question entirely. These issues stem from the original issues with the HR20's OS, the fact that this thing was beta'd in the field (as we early adopters will remember).

FWIW, mine failed when it had 28 SLs and was 50% full. It wasn't what was on the hard drive and in memory, it was what the machine was being asked to do that killed it. It could not handle three tasks at the same time that required hard drive access. To review...

1. download a program from the net
2. record a program off satellite
3. play back a third program

If a receiver can't handle these three simultaneous tasks...all of which are heavily promoted by DirecTV as major selling points...it should be pulled from service and replaced with competent hardware. And DirecTV should stop lying about the capabilities of its receivers.


----------



## Bamasat

lparsons21 said:


> Unless something changes I'm just a very few months away from curing the issue.


12 days left for me.
And as i read your post (for a while now)

How much do you talk to yourself over ever choosing this provider and over the Chargers games? How many times do you run a caculator and figure from August forward minus the 30-50 per month savings?

You ought to be a cust since the mid 90's and have my history and have that same calculator with all owned EQ.

I might end up on A&E on some compulsive disorder show BUT i bet my DVR's will work and With out a daily dance.


----------



## lparsons21

Bamasat said:


> 12 days left for me.
> And as i read your post (for a while now)
> 
> How much do you talk to yourself over ever choosing this provider and over the Chargers games? How many times do you run a caculator and figure from August forward minus the 30-50 per month savings?
> 
> You ought to be a cust since the mid 90's and have my history and have that same calculator with all owned EQ.
> 
> I might end up on A&E on some compulsive disorder show BUT i bet my DVR's will work and With out a daily dance.


I don't talk to myself about the Chargers, that was my son. I've told him I most likely will switch and we won't have NFLST, but I did tell him he can keep D* if he wants to pay the whole freight for it with just one HR. He told me he wasn't wanting to pay for the next season anyway. Discussion over!

As to the calculator, well I've run it more often than not!  I've come very close to switching right now, but it just doesn't make any kind of sense. If I pulled the plug now, I would pay about $340 in ETF and with the calculator that means a net loss of about $150 if my numbers are right. In August, after paying a $240 ETF, I still gain about $240 more giving me a net gain. I can tolerate the system that long!


----------



## Bamasat

lparsons21 said:


> I can tolerate the system that long!


I would phrase that with the word "think" inserted. 

Mine now with the DVR set to 1080 res only (*cant tolerate/ use Native anymore due to this mess/slow) when turning on the Samsung,
Also are starting HDMI hand shake prob's as well.


But like i Mimick...
PANDORA!


----------



## beer_geek

Shades228 said:


> I'm also, apparently, in a minority where I don't use my DVR's as archives or keep SL's around that I no longer use.


If we had the ability to use something else for archiving, I'm sure many would do that. I certainly would if it made things faster.

My HR 24 has 10 SL and 58% free. It still takes 5-10 seconds for the guide to show up.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

"Shades228" said:


> The 24s will still be faster but it's like installing a fresh OS on a new computer and drooling at the boot time. Then you start to actually use the computer.
> 
> Most people complain about speed and they have maxxed out SL's and constant HD Free space of 10% or less.
> 
> There are some legit complaints as well as I've had times where you can tell it's doing something in the background because it doesn't respond right away but then it catches up and is fine. If I were someone who watched live TV and channel hopped a lot I could see how this would be a problem if it did it all the time.
> 
> I'm also, apparently, in a minority where I don't use my DVR's as archives or keep SL's around that I no longer use.


I disagree with you. I have an HR22 that I just installed, it has 9 SLs, 96% free space, and it's the slowest DVR I've ever used. It's also a very common complaint for HR22s. This leads me to believe it's the DVR and not how it's used.

Conversely, my HR21, while at times is slow, it's nowhere near as slow. My HR24 is fast.

Mike


----------



## lparsons21

Mike Bertelson said:


> I disagree with you. I have an HR22 that I just installed, it has 9 SLs, 96% free space, and it's the slowest DVR I've ever used. It's also a very common complaint for HR22s. This leads me to believe it's the DVR and not how it's used.
> 
> Conversely, my HR21, while at times is slow, it's nowhere near as slow. My HR24 is fast.
> 
> Mike


Mike, on your HR24 are you seeing the remote ignoring issue? Mine are quick when they respond, or at least quick enough most of the time, but I'm seeing more and more that they are ignoring the remote.


----------



## Mike Greer

mnassour said:


> No free space.....that's a problem with *any* computer which, let's face it, is what these things really are.


If no free space is a problem they can do something that even a computer science drop out could figure out.... Don't allow the recordings to eat up all the free space...

Let's face it DirecTV has people with vision - things like MRV, SWM etc are great things. Too bad they don't have the technical skills to make their DVRs handle basic requirements like responding to the remote and scrolling through menus and lists...



mnassour said:


> FWIW, mine failed when it had 28 SLs and was 50% full. It wasn't what was on the hard drive and in memory, it was what the machine was being asked to do that killed it. It could not handle three tasks at the same time that required hard drive access. To review...
> 
> 1. download a program from the net
> 2. record a program off satellite
> 3. play back a third program
> 
> If a receiver can't handle these three simultaneous tasks...all of which are heavily promoted by DirecTV as major selling points...it should be pulled from service and replaced with competent hardware. And DirecTV should stop lying about the capabilities of its receivers.


Agreed - more basic functionality that their engineers can't seem to handle.


----------



## Crow159

lparsons21 said:


> Mike, on your HR24 are you seeing the remote ignoring issue? Mine are quick when they respond, or at least quick enough most of the time, but I'm seeing more and more that they are ignoring the remote.


I know you didn't ask me but my HR24 does ignore a button press at times. Normally it ignores the first button push if we haven't used the remote in a while. It's like it needs to wake up and then can be used. After that, it responds nicely to the remote. It doesn't do it all the time, but it does do it sometimes.


----------



## lparsons21

Crow159 said:


> I know you didn't ask me but my HR24 does ignore a button press at times. Normally it ignores the first button push if we haven't used the remote in a while. It's like it needs to wake up and then can be used. After that, it responds nicely to the remote. It doesn't do it all the time, but it does do it sometimes.


Thanks for the feedback. Mine do it pretty much randomly, never know when it will occur or for how long it will decide to ignore the remote. Very irritating!


----------



## JohnDG

Mike Greer said:


> Sorry, but, complaining about the speed when you have 50 SL's and 2% free is still a legit complaint. If the engineers can't write code that can handle 50 SL's and no free space then they should lower the limits to what they can handle. Don't expect the public to limit themselves...
> 
> Maybe DirecTV should say their hardware can only handle 25 SL's and you can't use half of the available storage?


Especially when there was no problem before the latest software release. It's the software, not the hardware. If the software requires more horsepower then DTV needs to upgrade the hardware on their dime, or not upgrade the software on the older platforms.

I didn't see Apple installing iOS 5 on their older iOS hardware platforms that didn't have the horsepower to support it.

jdg


----------



## Hoosier205

Mike Greer said:


> Let's face it DirecTV has people with vision - things like MRV, SWM etc are great things. Too bad they don't have the technical skills to make their DVRs handle basic requirements like responding to the remote and scrolling through menus and lists...


Here you go insulting people and assuming that this is a problem for everyone based on the experiences of some folks on an internet forum.


----------



## rebkell

JohnDG said:


> Especially when there was no problem before the latest software release. It's the software, not the hardware. If the software requires more horsepower then DTV needs to upgrade the hardware on their dime, or not upgrade the software on the older platforms.
> 
> I didn't see Apple installing iOS 5 on their older iOS hardware platforms that didn't have the horsepower to support it.
> 
> jdg


I'm in your camp. I just want to use the DVR and have it work when I tell it to. I didn't change the way I watch TV, but this is just overly irritating, I go in to do some housecleaning and it may take 10 minutes to erase 10 programs, that's just plain ridiculous. The box should be doing it's own housecleaning anyway, I shouldn't have to worry about cleaning out old programs, they should clean themselves out unless I specifically told the box to save them.


----------



## tko

Available space should have no bearing on the functionality of the DVR if the code was written correctly. The DVR is in full control of deleting aged recordings whenever it deems the space needed (programming term 'watermarking'). D* already maintains 'maintenance' space for background operations, guide data, live buffers, etc. Also the only reason to have a limit on SL's is the hardware cannot handle the background processing to maintain the list. If the hardware can handle the list then again it's poor programming of SL's.


----------



## lparsons21

Hoosier205 said:


> Here you go insulting people and assuming that this is a problem for everyone based on the experiences of some folks on an internet forum.


Where better or more accurate reading of the issue than a site dedicated to TV and specifically more populated by D* fans and foes? Most of whom are power users and want the best things out of the equipment and service that they pay dearly for.

Discussions of the HRs lack of performance with speed and remote response issues go back 6 years and are so common that they shouldn't be ignored or defended.

No other service has such a track record over equipment performance issues.

I, like others here, was very pleased when I got the 3 HR24s I did. With the SDGUI, they were responsive with nary an issue, with speed favorably compared to Dish's very fast DVRs. Then we were disappointed to find that the HDGUI was not much to brag about as our boxes slowed down and the remote response stuck its ugly head back up. Especially since the HDGUI isn't much more than lipstick on a pig! No great features added, just a couple of trivial ones, no expansion of guide width. IOW, not much but slow!


----------



## BAHitman

I have 2TB drives in my HR20's and I don't normally delete anything... on occasion they are a little slow, but I wouldn't say it's a frequent occurance...


----------



## sigma1914

lparsons21 said:


> ...
> No other service has such a track record over equipment performance issues.
> ...


Wrong.
Visit cable & UVerse forums - it's the same story as here. People constantly complaining, defenders stepping in, etc. All the same stuff.


----------



## Mike Greer

Hoosier205 said:


> Here you go insulting people and assuming that this is a problem for everyone based on the experiences of some folks on an internet forum.


I didn't mean to speak for 'all' but show me anyone's HR20\21\22\23\24\34 that can even come close to the speed of a 5 year old Dish Network HD DVR. It can't be done....

DirecTV's engineers are embarrassing themselves - I'm not forcing them to screw up their DVRs. I'll shut up when they wake up.


----------



## Rich

bobcamp1 said:


> +1
> 
> Note that almost none of their competitors have a speed problem as they get full (certainly not Tivo, Dish, or FIOS). And they don't even have a SL limit!


Again, I have several 20-700s and two 24s with 50 SLs and I don't see anything that leads me to believe that reaching the 50 SL limit slows down my HRs at all. In fact, aside from the obvious issues with the HD GUI, I still see no slowness issues with my HRs.

The HD GUI problem is real and needs to be fixed, but I don't see what that issue has to do with the "slowness" of the HRs when using trick-play or anything that doesn't have to do with the GUI.

Will the 21 series ever be as fast as the 24s or the 20-700s? I doubt that very much.

Anyone using a 21 series HR is using a DVR that is intrinsically slow. Fact.

The 24s are and will always be faster than the 21 series. Fact.

The 20-700s are and will always be faster than the 21 series (HR21-xxx, HR22-xxx and the HR23). Fact.

I think.

Rich


----------



## Hoosier205

lparsons21 said:


> Where better or more accurate reading of the issue than a site dedicated to TV and specifically more populated by D* fans and foes?


It's all about sample size and makeup. It's not at all accurate or balanced. A forum dedicated to the topic of DBS...we are the fringe of the satellite customer community.

Some are upset by the performance of their equipment. That is fine. No need to insult those who do the work. Some believe that simply because they pay for a service, that gives them free reign belittle and berate. If someone is that unhappy...they should take their business elsewhere.


----------



## Hoosier205

Mike Greer said:


> DirecTV's engineers are embarrassing themselves.


Again. Is this really necessary?


----------



## Rich

lparsons21 said:


> Thanks for the feedback. Mine do it pretty much randomly, never know when it will occur or for how long it will decide to ignore the remote. Very irritating!


My three 24s, two 500s and a 100, don't exhibit that problem. Neither do my eight 20-700s.

Rich


----------



## lparsons21

sigma1914 said:


> Wrong.
> Visit cable & UVerse forums - it's the same story as here. People constantly complaining, defenders stepping in, etc. All the same stuff.


I just took some quick swipes at a few of those discussion forums and didn't find any with a track record of 6 years and counting over a single issue. And that is what it is with D*.

There is just no valid excuse for the issue to be so common that most folks that I know that came to D* just expected it and weren't disappointed. It is the single most discussed issue when it comes to D* HRs.


----------



## lparsons21

Rich said:


> My three 24s, two 500s and a 100, don't exhibit that problem. Neither do my eight 20-700s.
> 
> Rich


How big IS that coax in your house? I figure it must be about 2' diameter with all that stuff getting fed!!! :lol:

Thanks for the feedback Rich.


----------



## Rich

rebkell said:


> I'm in your camp. I just want to use the DVR and have it work when I tell it to. I didn't change the way I watch TV, but this is just overly irritating, I go in to do some housecleaning and it may take 10 minutes to erase 10 programs, that's just plain ridiculous.


That's an issue caused by the new GUI. It will be fixed.



> The box should be doing it's own housecleaning anyway, I shouldn't have to worry about cleaning out old programs, they should clean themselves out unless I specifically told the box to save them.


All the HRs will drop off unsaved programming when the HDDs are full to make room for more programming. Thing is, the HDD has to be full for it to do that.

Rich


----------



## lparsons21

Hoosier205 said:


> It's all about sample size and makeup. It's not at all accurate or balanced. A forum dedicated to the topic of DBS...we are the fringe of the satellite customer community.
> 
> Some are upset by the performance of their equipment. That is fine. No need to insult those who do the work. Some believe that simply because they pay for a service, that gives them free reign belittle and berate. If someone is that unhappy...they should take their business elsewhere.


Yes, the sampling is pretty small, but that doesn't necessarily make it bad. This is a forum for dedicated TV and SAT watchers. And yes, I know we are the fringe, but we are the more knowledgeable fringe.

And BTW, the speed issue and the talk about poor programming isn't an insult, it is an observed fact. IF the programming was proper, and the boxes were better spec'd, speed wouldn't be an issue.

And yes, if I write a check every month to a company for service, then I have the right to belittle and berate them when they don't hold up their end very well. OTOH, I also have the obligation to congratulate them when they get it right. And I did just that when I first got my 3 HR24s.

As to taking my business elsewhere, in August when the $$$ line up right, I most likely will be doing just that. Time to stop paying a premium price for a service that isn't providing premium service, imo.


----------



## Rich

sigma1914 said:


> Wrong.
> Visit cable & UVerse forums - it's the same story as here. People constantly complaining, defenders stepping in, etc. All the same stuff.


Last year, before the BB season opened, I had a Cablevision HD DVR installed just in case YES and D* couldn't solve their problems. What a hunk of junk! How anyone can put up with that crappy equipment is beyond me.

Rich


----------



## sigma1914

lparsons21 said:


> I just took some quick swipes at a few of those discussion forums and didn't find any with a track record of 6 years and counting over a single issue. And that is what it is with D*.
> 
> There is just no valid excuse for the issue to be so common that most folks that I know that came to D* just expected it and weren't disappointed. It is the single most discussed issue when it comes to D* HRs.


Maybe because forums archive older posts. People constantly complain about Navigator on TWC. The UVERSE UI takes forever to do simple tasks. This forum is exactly like the others... a dedicated group of the same complainers, a dedicated group of defenders, and a group who just is laid back.


----------



## Hoosier205

lparsons21 said:


> And yes, if I write a check every month to a company for service, then I have the right to belittle and berate them when they don't hold up their end very well.


Unfortunately, many people agree. That's why call center staff for various companies are treated like scum by customers.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

lparsons21 said:


> Mike, on your HR24 are you seeing the remote ignoring issue? Mine are quick when they respond, or at least quick enough most of the time, but I'm seeing more and more that they are ignoring the remote.


I have seen some sluggishness after deleting/exiting a recording and returning to the Playlist but I can't say as I've seen it ignoring the remote. I'll keep an eye out though.

Mike


----------



## MikeW

My HR21 was horrible. Somewhere along the line I read that turning off the power save feature would help. It's been about two weeks and I have not experienced any of the slow down that I used to see. One other item I noticed was that, even with scrolling effects turned off, all of my units appeared to have it turned on. I turned it on, then back off and the guide pages are much faster.


----------



## lparsons21

Hoosier205 said:


> Unfortunately, many people agree. That's why call center staff for various companies are treated like scum by customers.


LOL! You can just bet many people agree. Those dollars I spend don't come easy, and I worked hard for every one of them. I expect no less from companies I do business with. They have to earn my business every day!

I'm never unpleasant on the rare occasion that I call customer service. Why in the world treat the guy on the very bottom of the totem pole like crap when they aren't the ones that caused the issues? Most people I know are like me in that respect.

If it gets to the point I need to shout into the phone, then the only word that comes to mind is a word that will terminate the business relationship and that word is CANCEL!


----------



## Rich

Hoosier205 said:


> It's all about sample size and makeup. It's not at all accurate or balanced. A forum dedicated to the topic of DBS...we are the fringe of the satellite customer community.


Ever wonder how technologically challenged folks deal with these same problems? I'm a case in point. I came to this forum having little knowledge of DVRs and I've always felt like an outsider because of that lack of knowledge.



> Some are upset by the performance of their equipment. That is fine. No need to insult those who do the work.


Having spent many years working as a craftsman and supervising craftsmen, I'm not sure I would put up with these constant issues. If the programmers or engineers cannot solve these problems we have I'd seriously consider either forcing them to do the job correctly or I'd put them in a corner and wouldn't let them near the hardware or software.



> Some believe that simply because they pay for a service, that gives them free reign belittle and berate. If someone is that unhappy...they should take their business elsewhere.


If someone pays for a service and doesn't get it, there should be consequences. Just read all these posts. Something's wrong and we shouldn't complain?

Rich


----------



## Rich

lparsons21 said:


> How big IS that coax in your house? I figure it must be about 2' diameter with all that stuff getting fed!!! :lol:
> 
> Thanks for the feedback Rich.


Just the normal coax. I did have RG11 (I think that's the right term, not sure) coming into my home. That looked like a garden hose. That was installed by Cablevision because I had so many cable boxes in my house (12 feeding 12 VCRs) that I was having all sorts of problems. It was finally removed last year as CV was doing everything it could to fix my Internet problems.

Rich


----------



## Mike Greer

Hoosier205 said:


> Unfortunately, many people agree. That's why call center staff for various companies are treated like scum by customers.


In my few dealings with DirecTV CSRs I have been nothing but respectful. I know they are not the ones that write the scripts and they have zero say in what engineering does to screw up the DVRs.

If I could actually talk to the engineers I wouldn't call them names etc. I would ask them how the HDGUI upgrade that was touted by the faithful as a fix for the sluggish performance (that they still deny even exists) turned out to be such a mess.

Maybe there is something else going on at DirecTV. I probably shouldn't say that engineering is embarrassing themselves... I should say whoever is responsible for the firmware on the HR series being what it is today is embarrassing themselves. Maybe it's not even the engineers making the decisions - maybe it is some VP of marketing causing the grief... I don't know who I just know there is trouble that needs to be addressed.


----------



## Mike Greer

Hoosier205 said:


> Here you go insulting people and assuming that this is a problem for everyone based on the experiences of some folks on an internet forum.





Mike Greer said:


> I didn't mean to speak for 'all' but show me anyone's HR20\21\22\23\24\34 that can even come close to the speed of a 5 year old Dish Network HD DVR.


I'm guess you're having a hard time finding a DirecTV DVR that comes anywhere near the speed of Dish Network DVRs?

I don't think it is too much to ask to get the speed of Dish Network receivers with the features of DirecTV. I, along with millions of others, pay good money to DirecTV.... Could we at least get the receiver to respond to the remote EVERY time I push a button?


----------



## Mike Greer

Rich said:


> Just the normal coax. I did have RG11 (I think that's the right term, not sure) coming into my home. That looked like a garden hose. That was installed by Cablevision because I had so many cable boxes in my house (12 feeding 12 VCRs) that I was having all sorts of problems. It was finally removed last year as CV was doing everything it could to fix my Internet problems.
> 
> Rich


Wow! 12 cable boxes feeding 12 VCRs! You must be nearly as nuts as I am!


----------



## Rich

Mike Greer said:


> Wow! 12 cable boxes feeding 12 VCRs! You must be nearly as nuts as I am!


I'm sure some folks think we're a bit wacky....:lol:

Rich


----------



## Hoosier205

Mike Greer said:


> I would ask them how the HDGUI upgrade that was touted by the faithful as a fix for the sluggish performance (that they still deny even exists) *turned out to be such a mess.*


That is the opinion of some. It certainly is not a statement of fact however. I think if it were truly a mess we would be hearing about it elsewhere and on a much larger scale.


----------



## wahooq

ive got an hr34 and an hr24 with the new gui and have had none of the issues listed.....


----------



## lparsons21

Hoosier205 said:


> That is the opinion of some. It certainly is not a statement of fact however. I think if it were truly a mess we would be hearing about it elsewhere and on a much larger scale.


Well it is a statement of fact for those affected. For HR24s here, about 15%. I know, you don't give it much credence, but them's the facts.

And it would have to be much worse for it to be discussed much outside of forums about SAT, TV and AV in general. And it is certainly discussed in all those these days, and in the past. It is an ongoing problem that D* really doesn't seem to care about. ;(


----------



## Mike Greer

Hoosier205 said:


> That is the opinion of some. It certainly is not a statement of fact however. I think if it were truly a mess we would be hearing about it elsewhere and on a much larger scale.


For many of us it is a statement of fact. I'm not alone here at DBSTALK - in fact I suspect that if we could somehow have an accurate poll of DBSTALKers the majority would say it is a mess.

You probably haven't noticed but... I'm not typically around these parts when my receivers are behaving... At least my HR24s - I don't use the HR22s because they have never worked worth a damn - poor kids. Someone at DirecTV screws up and then I'm back!:lol: If whoever is to blame at DirecTV get's it right you won't have to put up with my WHINING in your no-whining zone.


----------



## sigma1914

lparsons21 said:


> ... It is an ongoing problem that D* really doesn't seem to care about. ;(


This is wrong, as well. Software is constantly being worked on.


----------



## Hoosier205

lparsons21 said:


> Well it is a statement of fact for those affected. For HR24s here, about 15%. I know, you don't give it much credence, but them's the facts.


15% of people who are dedicated enough to the topic to take part in an internet forum. I'd trade the grain of salt for a salt block.



> And it would have to be much worse for it to be discussed much outside of forums about SAT, TV and AV in general. And it is certainly discussed in all those these days, and in the past. It is an ongoing problem that D* really doesn't seem to care about. ;(


If they didn't care about software issues they wouldn't be partnering with forums like this one to work them out. Let's also keep in mind that many of the people complaining about it in this thread are also participating in similar threads on other forums. So it's not like the discussions on those other forums are entirely unique.


----------



## Christopher Gould

"lparsons21" said:


> Where better or more accurate reading of the issue than a site dedicated to TV and specifically more populated by D* fans and foes? Most of whom are power users and want the best things out of the equipment and service that they pay dearly for.
> 
> Discussions of the HRs lack of performance with speed and remote response issues go back 6 years and are so common that they shouldn't be ignored or defended.
> 
> No other service has such a track record over equipment performance issues.
> 
> I, like others here, was very pleased when I got the 3 HR24s I did. With the SDGUI, they were responsive with nary an issue, with speed favorably compared to Dish's very fast DVRs. Then we were disappointed to find that the HDGUI was not much to brag about as our boxes slowed down and the remote response stuck its ugly head back up. Especially since the HDGUI isn't much more than lipstick on a pig! No great features added, just a couple of trivial ones, no expansion of guide width. IOW, not much but slow!


You haven't been around long enough to remember dishes displayer and how wonderful it ran. I don't remember if it was 6 years but the years it did run people weren't happy.


----------



## lparsons21

sigma1914 said:


> This is wrong, as well. Software is constantly being worked on.


LOL! 6 years and counting with the speed issues. In the meantime, work consisted of an update that added HDGUI, YouTube and Pandora. Time that could have been much better spent, imo.


----------



## lparsons21

Christopher Gould said:


> You haven't been around long enough to remember dishes displayer and how wonderful it ran. I don't remember if it was 6 years but the years it did run people weren't happy.


I've been around a lot longer than the pizza dishes have!! But in those days, I had a BUD. Heck, I've still got a BUD in my yard, just not connected to anything. 

But I wasn't reading here or anywhere else about the then very overpriced for what you got small dish stuff.


----------



## sigma1914

lparsons21 said:


> LOL! 6 years and counting with the speed issues. In the meantime, work consisted of an update that added HDGUI, YouTube and Pandora. Time that could have been much better spent, imo.


So, in 6 years there's never been acceptable speeds?


----------



## lparsons21

Hoosier205 said:


> 15% of people who are dedicated enough to the topic to take part in an internet forum. I'd trade the grain of salt for a salt block.
> 
> If they didn't care about software issues they wouldn't be partnering with forums like this one to work them out. Let's also keep in mind that many of the people complaining about it in this thread are also participating in similar threads on other forums. So it's not like the discussions on those other forums are entirely unique.


Yeah, 15% of people that care should just be ignored. Talk about head in the sand!

And the software issues aren't going to be solved doing weekly new software testing. And that's with the proof in the pudding of what is NRs these days. You and some others may have confidence that D* will eventually solve the speed issues, however the fact that they haven't in 6 years makes that real pie-in-the-sky thinking!


----------



## Rich

Hoosier205 said:


> That is the opinion of some. It certainly is not a statement of fact however. I think if it were truly a mess we would be hearing about it elsewhere and on a much larger scale.


12 HRs in my home and every one of them has been affected adversely by the HD GUI. How's that for a "statement of fact"? Where would "elsewhere" be?

Rich


----------



## Hoosier205

lparsons21 said:


> LOL! 6 years and counting with the speed issues. In the meantime, work consisted of an update that added HDGUI, YouTube and Pandora. Time that could have been much better spent, imo.


Every satellite and cable provider has been working on their software for many years.


----------



## lparsons21

sigma1914 said:


> So, in 6 years there's never been acceptable speeds?


In my experience, very few times. And going back years on this very forum show that to be true. Last time I remember speed not being an issue was with the HR24s before the HDGUI and that was only for the HR24. All the rest were still slow, as is the newest HR34.

It is a pathetic history of how not to write good code, or possibly not spec the hardware right to begin with. Either way, it is sad.


----------



## lparsons21

Hoosier205 said:


> Every satellite and cable provider has been working on their software for many years.


You can spend years digging sand off the beach and not make any headway too. The software work should have been dedicated to rock solid, fast performance of the basic functions the the DVRs, not adding trivial 'features' like Pandora (a truly non-video add on), and YouTube (a source for mostly poor videos).


----------



## Bamasat

lparsons21 said:


> Yeah, 15% of people that care should just be ignored. Talk about head in the sand!
> 
> And the software issues aren't going to be solved doing weekly new software testing. And that's with the proof in the pudding of what is NRs these days. You and some others may have confidence that D* will eventually solve the speed issues, however the fact that they haven't in 6 years makes that real pie-in-the-sky thinking!


Some (alot here),
when standing at a urinal,
the utter result is,,,,
liquid blue on white.


----------



## Rich

sigma1914 said:


> This is wrong, as well. Software is constantly being worked on.


Agree I do, but nobody listens, sadly. And they'll forget what a mess this is as soon as it's fixed and then we'll be on to the next "gotta have feature", and those same people will want that as quickly as possible. History repeats itself (the first DLB NR is a great example) and nobody learns.

Rich


----------



## joshjr

lparsons21 said:


> In my experience, very few times. And going back years on this very forum show that to be true. Last time I remember speed not being an issue was with the HR24s before the HDGUI and that was only for the HR24. All the rest were still slow, as is the newest HR34.
> 
> It is a pathetic history of how not to write good code, or possibly not spec the hardware right to begin with. Either way, it is sad.


I would say the HR34 has been very inconsistent. There were times where it went very fast but lately its been slow. I have noticed when I use the down arrow to switch between two active tuners that it changes incredibly fast much to my surprise. All in all I am happy with the HR34. The remote has been less and less responsive lately though. Only on the HR34. I have several other models and the only ones that seem to be affected are the HR34.


----------



## Hoosier205

Rich said:


> 12 HRs in my home and every one of them has been affected adversely by the HD GUI. How's that for a "statement of fact"? Where would "elsewhere" be?
> 
> Rich


Can you prove that change to the HDGUI is the cause or is that just your best guess?


----------



## Rich

Hoosier205 said:


> Can you prove that change to the HDGUI is the cause or is that just your best guess?


All my problems started after the HD GUI downloaded. You don't believe me, you don't believe anyone else...what do you believe, the Kool Aid is delicious?

Rich


----------



## joshjr

Hoosier205 said:


> Can you prove that change to the HDGUI is the cause or is that just your best guess?


What kind of a question is that. That would be like a mechanic asking okay so your car only started acting up after you got 91 octane from a station you have never bought from before and you think its the gas you bought? No way! I just thought it was coincidental enough to bring up this useless information.


----------



## sunking

Hoosier205 said:


> That is the opinion of some. It certainly is not a statement of fact however. I think if it were truly a mess we would be hearing about it elsewhere and on a much larger scale.





Hoosier205 said:


> 15% of people who are dedicated enough to the topic to take part in an internet forum. I'd trade the grain of salt for a salt block.
> 
> If they didn't care about software issues they wouldn't be partnering with forums like this one to work them out. Let's also keep in mind that many of the people complaining about it in this thread are also participating in similar threads on other forums. So it's not like the discussions on those other forums are entirely unique.


I see, so somehow only those who are on this forum are experiencing slow receivers? Your assertion makes no sense. The slow receivers have nothing to do with how they are used or who is using them, the sample size is more than sufficient to assert the 15% is probably across the board.

I can tell you that I use my dvr as if it were 1995 and no differently than my mother. I save a few shows, have less than 50% disk usage, and maybe 6 auto records set up. Yet it's slow as molasses and makes me want to throw the remote through the window.


----------



## Rich

sunking said:


> I see, so somehow only those who are on this forum are experiencing slow receivers? Your assertion makes no sense. The slow receivers have nothing to do with how they are used or who is using them, the sample size is more than sufficient to assert the 15% is probably across the board.
> 
> I can tell you that I use my dvr as if it were 1995 and no differently than my mother. I save a few shows, have less than 50% disk usage, and maybe 6 auto records set up. Yet it's slow as molasses and makes me want to throw the remote through the window.


Good post. Very well put.

Rich


----------



## Mike Greer

Hoosier205 said:


> Can you prove that change to the HDGUI is the cause or is that just your best guess?


That's funny.

Within days/hours of receiving the HDGUI people start complaining... Maybe you're right. Maybe the trouble started when the new season of Shameless started.:nono:

I guess it just goes to show that no matter what the facts are some will find a way to defend DirecTV.

I'm sure DirecTV is very proud.


----------



## Bamasat

sunking said:


> I see, so somehow only those who are on this forum are experiencing slow receivers? Your assertion makes no sense.


He/they?
Part of my newly named "blue man group".
Typing with "blinders on" is evidently the Only prerequisite.


----------



## Rich

Mike Greer said:


> That's funny.
> 
> Within days/hours of receiving the HDGUI people start complaining... Maybe you're right. Maybe the trouble started when the new season of Shameless started.:nono:
> 
> I guess it just goes to show that no matter what the facts are some will find a way to defend DirecTV.
> 
> I'm sure DirecTV is very proud.


He asked me that question and I've been defending D* all along. What's he gonna say when the next NR comes out and fixes these issues? I hope.

Rich


----------



## Bamasat

Mike Greer said:


> That's funny.
> 
> Within days/hours of receiving the HDGUI people start complaining... Maybe you're right. Maybe the trouble started when the new season of *Shameless* started.:nono:


It was
Cali-froun-ication .
Produced Soley by:
_El Segundo studios._


----------



## Mike Greer

Rich said:


> He asked me that question and I've been defending D* all along. What's he gonna say when the next NR comes out and fixes these issues? I hope.
> 
> Rich


Good point!

I'm sure he'll act like there was never a problem. Sort of like the people that said their HR2X receivers never had any slowdowns or trouble and then where over-the-top supporters of the new 'much faster' HR24.

I too am a DirecTV supporter - I pay them good money (not as much as you!) but it just kills me when some people can't see the elephant city on the couch next to them! Obviously the the HDGUI has caused trouble - just fix it and move on!


----------



## Rich

Bamasat said:


> It was
> Cali-froun-ication .
> Produced Soley by:
> _El Segundo studios._


Am I alone? I don't understand any of his posts.

Rich


----------



## Mike Greer

Bamasat said:


> It was
> Cali-froun-ication .
> Produced Soley by:
> _El Segundo studios._


Can you prove that 'Cali-froun-ication' is the cause or is that just your best guess? :lol:


----------



## mattnboise

Rich said:


> 12 HRs in my home and every one of them has been affected adversely by the HD GUI. How's that for a "statement of fact"? Where would "elsewhere" be?
> 
> Rich


You have twelve DVRs?? Thats insane and you watch all 12 of them? 
Do you ever leave the house?


----------



## harsh

Hoosier205 said:


> Every satellite and cable provider has been working on their software for many years.


That is obvious.

The question is how many DVRs have been made overall less desirable as a result of these years of effort.


----------



## Hoosier205

sunking said:


> I see, so somehow only those who are on this forum are experiencing slow receivers?


I never said that. We have no idea how many people are actually experiencing these issues. What I am saying is that 15% of people so dedicated to the topic of DBS that they joined and participate in a forum (some of whom came here because they had a problem)...are not representative of normal customers.

I am not experiencing these issues post-HDGUI. No one with DirecTV that I know personally is. Now, some of you are. Just how many and why is the question. I'm am simply saying two things:

1. We do not truly know what percentage of customers are experiencing these issue and a poll here (of any kind) will never reflect the entire customer base.

2. The suggestion that the HDGUI is the root cause is guesswork, albeit from some very smart people in cases.


----------



## Hoosier205

harsh said:


> That is obvious.
> 
> The question is how many DVRs have been made overall less desirable as a result of these years of effort.


I have no idea. You should check with your provider.


----------



## Rich

mattnboise said:


> You have twelve DVRs?? Thats insane and you watch all 12 of them?
> Do you ever leave the house?


I'm not the only one with 12 DVRs and I'm not insane. Of course I watch all of them using MRV.

Actually, I watch more NetFlix content than D* content. I've got a pretty hefty contract with them too.

I'm gonna take your post as a compliment. Did you mean it that way?

Rich


----------



## Hoosier205

Mike Greer said:


> That's funny.
> 
> Within days/hours of receiving the HDGUI people start complaining... Maybe you're right. Maybe the trouble started when the new season of Shameless started.:nono:
> 
> I guess it just goes to show that no matter what the facts are some will find a way to defend DirecTV.
> 
> I'm sure DirecTV is very proud.


Wow. Some people will choose to argue about anything. It is more likely to be an underlying issue not related to the HDGUI. If it were the HDGUI alone...more of us would be experiences these issues.

You keep talking about facts. What facts?


----------



## Rich

Mike Greer said:


> Can you prove that 'Cali-froun-ication' is the cause or is that just your best guess? :lol:


Produced "Soley" by...could he have meant solely?

Rich


----------



## harsh

Hoosier205 said:


> Can you prove that change to the HDGUI is the cause or is that just your best guess?


Can you offer something else that changed on or before the introduction of the HD GUI that is a more likely culprit?


----------



## Bamasat

Mike Greer said:


> Can you prove that 'Cali-froun-ication' is the cause or is that just your best guess? :lol:


I just know where the Head office is to this outfit.
That would be Cali.
And El Segundo as the specific.
Thus the 
"studio" that produced this mess.

Ohhh and i know the defining colors of its logo ARE in fact,
BLUE. 

:lol:


----------



## Rich

harsh said:


> Can you offer something else that changed on or before the introduction of the HD GUI that is a more likely culprit?


Logic? That's not gonna work. We've tried that. Guess he never heard of Occam's Razor.

Rich


----------



## sacflies

I've been with DTV over 2 years now (out of contract). All my receivers have always been VERY slow. Even after the so called software upgrade they are all slow a dirt. The other nite I simply pressed the number 5 to go to that channel from another channel and it took a good 45 seonds to actually go to the channel. I was left looking at a black screen for that long. That is outrageous. And lately my main HD DVR (an HR-23) is locking up every couple of days and rebooting itself, even in the middle of the night. And it turns itself on after it reboots and since I usually leave the AVR on all the time (family can't operate it very well without my help) it has woken me up several times the last few weeks.

Might be hopping over to Dish soon and the Hopper.


----------



## Hoosier205

harsh said:


> Can you offer something else that changed on or before the introduction of the HD GUI that is a more likely culprit?


No one here (other than a few select employees who post here) has access to that information. Which is why I caution against folks jumping to conclusion based soley upon the timing of when the issues appeared.

Shouldn't you be more focused on the severe shortcomings of your own provider?


----------



## Hoosier205

Rich said:


> Logic? That's not gonna work. We've tried that. Guess he never heard of Occam's Razor.
> 
> Rich


Let's stick to the topic and away from personal attacks. I have been very civil with you.


----------



## Rich

Hoosier205 said:


> Let's stick to the topic and away from personal attacks. I have been very civil with you.


That was on topic. You may feel free to be as uncivil as you wish.

Rich


----------



## joshjr

Rich said:


> I'm not the only one with 12 DVRs and I'm not insane. Of course I watch all of them using MRV.
> 
> Actually, I watch more NetFlix content than D* content. I've got a pretty hefty contract with them too.
> 
> I'm gonna take your post as a compliment. Did you mean it that way?
> 
> Rich


I had 15 tuners at the time of my HR34 install. I asked the installers what they would of done had I of had 17 tuners and they just looked at each other and said I have no idea. I asked about a SWM32 and they said no probably would of had to go with 2 SWM 16's. Not sure how that would of worked. How do you have 12 DVR's wired?


----------



## sunking

Hoosier205 said:


> I never said that. We have no idea how many people are actually experiencing these issues. What I am saying is that 15% of people so dedicated to the topic of DBS that they joined and participate in a forum (some of whom came here because they had a problem)...are not representative of normal customers.
> 
> I am not experiencing these issues post-HDGUI. No one with DirecTV that I know personally is. Now, some of you are. Just how many and why is the question. I'm am simply saying two things:
> 
> 1. We do not truly know what percentage of customers are experiencing these issue and a poll here (of any kind) will never reflect the entire customer base.
> 
> 2. The suggestion that the HDGUI is the root cause is guesswork, albeit from some very smart people in cases.


This IS the 'Directv denies problems with receivers' thread and has wrongly morphed into the HDGUI thread. So I will grant you that as my receiver was horrid long before the update pinning it the HDGUI may or may not be true.

That being said, without pulling up old posts, the HDGUI was supposed to address these issues and was touted as much faster that the previous interface. It was touted as "much/incredibly/insertadjectiveforawesomenesshere faster" than the no HD software. Myself and many others aren't seeing this and apparently it's our own fault for pressing the buttons in a way only super cool users who hang out here would do.

As this is the SLOW RECEIVER thread, your HDGUI deflection technique doesn't really mean anything and it still falls on Directv to address the issue.


----------



## Rich

joshjr said:


> I had 15 tuners at the time of my HR34 install. I asked the installers what they would of done had I of had 17 tuners and they just looked at each other and said I have no idea. I asked about a SWM32 and they said no probably would of had to go with 2 SWM 16's. Not sure how that would of worked. How do you have 12 DVR's wired?


Two SWM16s. I do have room for a 34 with my setup, but I don't buy cars in their first model year and I'm not about to get a 34 until I see less complaints about them. Not that I have any need for one, but I feel kind of left out....:lol:

Rich


----------



## Rich

sunking said:


> This IS the 'Directv denies problems with receivers' thread and has wrongly morphed into the HDGUI thread. So I will grant you that as my receiver was horrid long before the update pinning it the HDGUI may or may not be true.
> 
> That being said, without pulling up old posts, the HDGUI was supposed to address these issues and was touted as much faster that the previous interface. It was touted as "much/incredibly/insertadjectiveforawesomenesshere faster" than the no HD software. Myself and many others aren't seeing this and apparently it's our own fault for pressing the buttons in a way only super cool users who hang out here would do.
> 
> As this is the SLOW RECEIVER thread, your HDGUI deflection technique doesn't really mean anything and it still falls on Directv to address the issue.


Point well taken, but I don't see any speed issues with my 20-700s or my 24s that haven't been caused by the HD GUI. If you've got series 21 HRs, they were slow to begin with.

Rich


----------



## pfp

Rich said:


> Logic? That's not gonna work. We've tried that. Guess he never heard of Occam's Razor.
> 
> Rich


Didn't someone use that to shave Schrödinger's cat?


----------



## Richierich

The Reason I got rid of my HR20 and HR21s was to get 5 HR24-500s that were Faster and Boy oh Boy are they FAST!!!.

The HDGUI did not adversely affect my HR24-500s but my 2 HR23s are Slow to respond to my entering channel numbers so I have to Select the Guide and then Enter my Channel Numbers without having a problem.

Strange that doing it that way allows the channel numbers to be more quickly accessed and never do I have a mistake doing it that way.

I think the Problem is that the older units are Underpowered and need More CPU Horsepower and More RAM which is what the HR24s have thus they do not experience the problems that my HR23s experience.

And Yes some people with HR24s experience problems after the HDGUI came out but mine if Great and I have No Problems whatsoever with those HR24s.

The Channel Changing Slowness also is caused by the HDMI Handshake and that Issue will not in my opinion go away.


----------



## Rich

pfp said:


> Didn't someone use that to shave Schrödinger's cat?


I think Occam preceded the good Dr. by quite a while, but I do get the joke....:lol:

Rich


----------



## Hoosier205

sunking said:


> This IS the 'Directv denies problems with receivers' thread and has wrongly morphed into the HDGUI thread. So I will grant you that as my receiver was horrid long before the update pinning it the HDGUI may or may not be true.


Exactly. Even if they were tied together, there is no way for anyone as a customer to verify that. We can make educated guesses and strong assumptions. At the end of the day it may only be a strange coincidence. If the problems were severe enough and widespread enough, customers would voice their opinion in the best way possible. So far...they haven't done that. My guess is that the problems either are not severe enough or widespread enough for that to happen at this point. Threads like this one and the HDGUI thread are helpful and interesting, just not the best of barometers.


----------



## lparsons21

Richierich said:


> The Channel Changing Slowness also is caused by the HDMI Handshake and that Issue will not in my opinion go away.


This one is caused by having Native On imo and as long as Native On is selected, it will be a bit slow to change channels. I've never really considered this a bug as HDMI handshaking can be a real PITA and Native On doesn't help things in that respect.

I run Native On because my TV does a much better job of upscaling the few SD channels I watch than does the HR24 and tolerate the slowness of channel changing to get that benefit.

I did test Native Off and it did result in a bit quicker change.


----------



## Bamasat

Rich said:


> Point well taken, but I don't see any speed issues with my 20-700s
> 
> Rich


Mine? Absolutely sick .
(the reason im here/forum).
They are practically unusable at times.

(keystrokes a million, Black screens for long duration(S) when using UI or simple channel changes - i often leave the room in frustration and when returning there no telling what chan or menu it will be on when i get back. 
I have Lost recordings to freeze ups (stuck in guide with useless PIG) due having to Reboot while recording is in process ect ect ect ect and thats just to watch AND PAY for TV


----------



## Rich

Richierich said:


> The Reason I got rid of my HR20 and HR21s was to get 5 HR24-500s that were Faster and Boy oh Boy are they FAST!!!.
> 
> The HDGUI did not adversely affect my HR24-500s but my 2 HR23s are Slow to respond to my entering channel numbers so I have to Select the Guide and then Enter my Channel Numbers without having a problem.
> 
> Strange that doing it that way allows the channel numbers to be more quickly accessed and never do I have a mistake doing it that way.
> 
> I think the Problem is that the older units are Underpowered and need More CPU Horsepower and More RAM which is what the HR24s have thus they do not experience the problems that my HR23s experience.
> 
> And Yes some people with HR24s experience problems after the HDGUI came out but mine if Great and I have No Problems whatsoever with those HR24s.
> 
> The Channel Changing Slowness also is caused by the HDMI Handshake and that Issue will not in my opinion go away.


Tomorrow night I hope to delete over 75 episodes of _Desperate Housewives_. I'll be using one of my 24-500s for that task. I'll let you know how long it takes. With the SD GUI, it would have taken a very short time. Now it takes me a longgggg time to delete one program when I'm using MRV. I see almost exactly the same thing on my other 500 and my 24-100 and on my eight 20-700s (the 20-700s being a tad slower than the 24s, of course).

Rich


----------



## Hoosier205

Rich said:


> Tomorrow night I hope to delete over 75 episodes of _Desperate Housewives_. I'll be using one of my 24-500s for that task. I'll let you know how long it takes. With the SD GUI, it would have taken a very short time. Now it takes me a longgggg time to delete one program when I'm using MRV. I see almost exactly the same thing on my other 500 and my 24-100 and on my eight 20-700s (the 20-700s being a tad slower than the 24s, of course).
> 
> Rich


75 episodes? That's just insane.


----------



## lparsons21

Hoosier205 said:


> 75 episodes? That's just insane.


I don't believe Rich ever claimed to be sane!!  I could understand if he had 75 episodes of something really good like Farscape or Babylon 5 or some such, but Desperate Housewives??

That said, I think he'll be waiting a long time for all of them to delete.


----------



## Rich

Bamasat said:


> Mine? Absolutely sick .
> (the reason im here/forum).
> They are practically unusable at times.
> 
> (keystrokes a million, Black screens for long duration(S) when using UI or simple channel changes - i often leave the room in frustration and when returning there no telling what chan or menu it will be on when i get back.
> I have Lost recordings to freeze ups (stuck in guide with useless PIG) due having to Reboot while recording is in process ect ect ect ect and thats just to watch AND PAY for TV


Understood that post, thanx. Are all your HRs 20-700s? Don't the wrong idea about me and my 20-700s, I went thru an awful lot of them and now have three leased 20-700s. The other five I bought from MDU folks, thinking that a one owner STB was more likely to work than D*'s replacement HRs. Worked out well.

But, if I don't use my 20-700s for a couple weeks, they are slow to respond at first. The 24s are not. They are snappy no matter how long they are not used for viewing. After about five minutes, even the 20-700s that are just waking up are back to normal.

Rich


----------



## MikeW

Rich said:


> Tomorrow night I hope to delete over 75 episodes of _Desperate Housewives_. I'll be using one of my 24-500s for that task. I'll let you know how long it takes. With the SD GUI, it would have taken a very short time. Now it takes me a longgggg time to delete one program when I'm using MRV. I see almost exactly the same thing on my other 500 and my 24-100 and on my eight 20-700s (the 20-700s being a tad slower than the 24s, of course).
> 
> Rich


Please try disabling the power save mode on any DVRs that may have DH recoreded. Reboot the receivers.

I have disabled power save a few weeks ago. As a test, I had 15 NCIS shows that I have not watched. They are recorded on an HR20-700. From my R22, I highlighted the program and pressed the red key to delete. It took a total of 32 seconds before I was able to use the unit again.

Prior to doing the power save disable, I would see it delete an object, refresh the playlist, delete another object and so forth. Five episodes took over a minute to complete.


----------



## MikeW

harsh said:


> Can you offer something else that changed on or before the introduction of the HD GUI that is a more likely culprit?


Power Save mode.


----------



## Rich

lparsons21 said:


> I don't believe Rich ever claimed to be sane!!


I do have a plan when it comes to recording programs. The first part of the plan is simple: I don't trust the HRs. The second, and easiest to understand is also simple: I have eight Panny plasmas in eight rooms, so I need eight HRs for them. Now for the third part: I could get by with just eight, but I feel better with four for backing up programs.

Another reason to keep the four HRs I really don't need is that they work. If one of my HRs goes south, I have the replacement in hand. One that I know will work. Not many folks on the forum can say that, I think.



> I could understand if he had 75 episodes of something really good like Farscape or Babylon 5 or some such, but Desperate Housewives??


My wife and I have watched it since it started. I have a hard time keeping up with what's going on if I watch a show like that and I find it easier to understand when watched in it's entirety. I don't archive anything, I've got NF for that.

So, all things considered, I think my plans have worked out well for me. I never miss a show. No lost recordings. No worries about replacements.

Insanity? Don't think so. Am I completely sane? Don't think so....:lol:



> That said, I think he'll be waiting a long time for all of them to delete.


I know I will and I'll be counting the seconds.

Rich


----------



## Rich

MikeW said:


> Please try disabling the power save mode on any DVRs that may have DH recoreded. Reboot the receivers.
> 
> I have disabled power save a few weeks ago. As a test, I had 15 NCIS shows that I have not watched. They are recorded on an HR20-700. From my R22, I highlighted the program and pressed the red key to delete. It took a total of 32 seconds before I was able to use the unit again.
> 
> Prior to doing the power save disable, I would see it delete an object, refresh the playlist, delete another object and so forth. Five episodes took over a minute to complete.


I disabled the Power Saver on all my HRs a few days after the NR.

Rich


----------



## Mike Greer

The strangest thing to me as far as the great DirecTV defenders are concerned is.... Why would so many people just make up these problems? It feels like they think that I (and others with trouble) are just bored and have to make up stories about how sluggish, remote ignoring, etc DirecTV DVRs are.

Why would we make it up? Did we get together and start a 'Pick on poor DirecTV' club?

If the DVRs just worked as claimed I probably wouldn't even know about DBSTalk to begin with.

This is just TV for hell's sake. It's not like it matters. When I've finally had enough and decide that the pain of being a DirecTV customer is just not worth the few things I watch I'll cancel. If they don't get it straight soon that time may be near and then you'll be able to hip-hip-hurray DirecTV all you want without having to hear my whining....


----------



## Hoosier205

Mike Greer said:


> The strangest thing to me as far as the great DirecTV defenders are concerned is.... Why would so many people just make up these problems? It feels like they think that I (and others with trouble) are just bored and have to make up stories about how sluggish, remote ignoring, etc DirecTV DVRs are.
> 
> Why would we make it up? Did we get together and start a 'Pick on poor DirecTV' club?
> 
> If the DVRs just worked as claimed I probably wouldn't even know about DBSTalk to begin with.
> 
> This is just TV for hell's sake. It's not like it matters. When I've finally had enough and decide that the pain of being a DirecTV customer is just not worth the few things I watch I'll cancel. If they don't get it straight soon that time may be near and then you'll be able to hip-hip-hurray DirecTV all you want without having to hear my whining....


When did someone say you or anyone else had made it up? I don't believe you are be dishonest at all.


----------



## wahooq

> The strangest thing to me as far as the great DirecTV defenders are concerned is.... Why would so many people just make up these problems? It feels like they think that I (and others with trouble) are just bored and have to make up stories about how sluggish, remote ignoring, etc DirecTV DVRs


From what im reading no one is saying its not hapopening...just that these arent widespread issues


----------



## Bamasat

Mike Greer said:


> The strangest thing to me as far as the great DirecTV defenders are concerned is.... Why would so many people just make up these problems? It feels like they think that I (and others with trouble) are just bored and have to make up stories about how sluggish, remote ignoring, etc DirecTV DVRs are.
> 
> Why would we make it up? Did we get together and start a 'Pick on poor DirecTV' club?
> 
> If the DVRs just worked as claimed I probably wouldn't even know about DBSTalk to begin with.
> 
> This is just TV for hell's sake. It's not like it matters. When I've finally had enough and decide that the pain of being a DirecTV customer is just not worth the few things I watch I'll cancel. If they don't* get it straight soon* that time may be near and then you'll be able to hip-hip-hurray DirecTV all you want without having to hear my whining....


Sooooon is a real word for me after about 18 yrs with this provider.
AND The Websters definition of "soon" not the D definition or these puppets here.
(some Just Might be placed puppets fyi.. There is history of this here. Many now get checks from D* But started right here as a poster/ moderator.
shhhh they dont want you to know that though . lol)


----------



## raott

wahooq said:


> just that these arent widespread issues


Which is based on nothing. There are certain posters, with very long track records, seen across multiple threads where they bend over backwards, repeatedly posting over and over to defend D*, no matter the issue.

I simply ignore them.


----------



## sigma1914

Bamasat said:


> Sooooon is a real word for me after about 18 yrs with this provider.
> AND The Websters definition of "soon" not the D definition or these puppets here.
> (some Just Might be placed puppets fyi.. There is history of this here. Many now get checks from D* But started right here as a poster/ moderator.
> shhhh they dont want you to know that though . lol)


It's no secret. Interesting you know so much about the past here being you're a supposed "new" member. More proof for my assertion that you're a previously banned Alabama poster.


----------



## Bamasat

sigma1914 said:


> It's no secret. Interesting you know so much about the past here being you're a supposed "new" member. More proof for my assertion that you're a previously banned Alabama poster.


20 yrs INVOLVED.
Im not just a signal buyer /residential customer. 
(far from it)

I know Elsegundo well. Just say that much. (prob alot better than the hailed poster here who is a By design Liaison for D) 
And i Will add , more than you will ever know or could conceive. 
IS it pretty?
No where near it .
=Topic closed (for now)


----------



## domingos35

they're in Denial mode


----------



## sigma1914

Bamasat said:


> 20 yrs INVOLVED.
> Im not just a signal buyer /residential customer.
> (far from it)
> 
> I know Elsegundo well. Just say that much. (prob alot better than the hailed poster here who is a By design lesion for D)
> And i Will add , more than you will ever know or could conceive
> It it pretty?
> No where near it .
> =Topic closed (for now)


I don't speak gibberish, but ok... whatever you say.


----------



## Bamasat

sigma1914 said:


> I don't speak gibberish, but ok... whatever you say.




Wait on the edit button /spell check ect... then.
Im old


----------



## DawgLink

Hoosier205 said:


> When did someone say you or anyone else had made it up? I don't believe you are be dishonest at all.


Eh, the insinuation at times is that we are either over-exaggerating or making up the problem, imo. No, I don't mean everyone here as MOST if not all are incredibly nice at dealing with our issues.

But, I must admit I am surprised at 1) The amount of people having the issues of slowness that I am having and 2) The amount of people that come off as angry that we are having these issues.


----------



## luckydob

"Hoosier205" said:


> Exactly. Even if they were tied together, there is no way for anyone as a customer to verify that. We can make educated guesses and strong assumptions. At the end of the day it may only be a strange coincidence. If the problems were severe enough and widespread enough, customers would voice their opinion in the best way possible. So far...they haven't done that. My guess is that the problems either are not severe enough or widespread enough for that to happen at this point. Threads like this one and the HDGUI thread are helpful and interesting, just not the best of barometers.


Oh, how you overestimate the public. How many users just accept the issues as is? Because they are ignorant to the issues and do not call to complain, does not mean there is not a problem. My mom hates how slow the hr20 is, but would she ever call up and complain? Nope! She just accepts this as the way it was supposed to work...frustrated as she is, it would never dawn on her that the units are not working how they should until I mentioned it.


----------



## Hoosier205

"luckydob" said:


> Oh, how you overestimate the public. How many users just accept the issues as is? Because they are ignorant to the issues and do not call to complain, does not mean there is not a problem. My mom hates how slow the hr20 is, but would she ever call up and complain? Nope! She just accepts this as the way it was supposed to work...frustrated as she is, it would never dawn on her that the units are not working how they should until I mentioned it.


I agree. It works both ways however.


----------



## Barry in Conyers

DawgLink said:


> But, I must admit I am surprised at 1) The amount of people having the issues of slowness that I am having and 2) The amount of people that come off as angry that we are having these issues.


They are not angry that people are having issues; they are angry that people are posting about the issues and blaming DirecTV.


----------



## RACJ2

Bamasat said:


> Mine? Absolutely sick .
> (the reason im here/forum).
> They are practically unusable at times.
> 
> (keystrokes a million, Black screens for long duration(S) when using UI or simple channel changes - i often leave the room in frustration and when returning there no telling what chan or menu it will be on when i get back.
> I have Lost recordings to freeze ups (stuck in guide with useless PIG) due having to Reboot while recording is in process *ect ect ect ect* and thats just to watch AND PAY for TV


 I have to admit that I had no idea what you were talking about in most of your posts. This was the only post made sense, until I got to the ect's. I wondered what that meant. After googling it, I figured out that you may be using shock therapy to correct the issues with your HR's? Or possibly, you are treating severe depression, caused by the issues with your HR's.


> Electroconvulsive therapy (ECT), formerly known as electroshock, is a psychiatric treatment in which seizures are electrically induced in anesthetized patients for therapeutic effect. Its mode of action is unknown.[1] Today, ECT is most often recommended for use as a treatment for severe depression that has not responded to other treatment, and is also used in the treatment of mania and catatonia.


----------



## sacflies

Many times I have to attempt to input a channel number on the remote 5 or 6 times to get all the numbers to translate to the receiver (HR-23). It's not that the remote needs batteries. It just will not respond fast enough to change the channel efficiently. It is very aggravating. I, like many, have just accepted this as the way it is with DTV receivers. I was hoping the new, faster, slicker upgrade recently would have helped, but it actually seems even slower now. This is really just unacceptable not to be able to do a very basic function without these kinds of issues. It is hard to believe that they can't fix this. I have always wondered if using an A/V receiver (hooking the sat box to the receiver then out to the TV) is part of the problem with my equipment...the HDMI handshake issue. I suppose it does contribute to problem. But that is no excuse for DTV not to be able to fix these issues, as many people use AVR's in their setups these days.

I am 95% sure that I will be jumping to DISH in the next few weeks. The Hopper/Joey setup sounds pretty good. Although I would probably have to do a 2 Hopper/2 Joey setup to get the additional tuners at the extra cost. But from what I am hearing DISH equipment operates so much better.


----------



## SPG900NY

I had no idea others were having this issue. I have an HR-24 and the box will just go unresponsive at times for up to six or seven minutes. Then all the commands that I had tried to execute from the remote will run at once. A reboot of the box seems to fix it for a while. I did try to clear out a lot of recordings. I have 45% free, but still ran into the issue yesterday.


----------



## Bamasat

RACJ2 said:


> I have to admit that I had no idea what you were talking about in most of your posts. This was the only post made sense, until I got to the ect's. I wondered what that meant. After googling it, I figured out that you may be using shock therapy to correct the issues with your HR's? Or possibly, you are treating severe depression, caused by the issues with your HR's.


Another Blueman again i see.
I saw you guys jump on a installer who does both systems considering Facts of rain fade and Ka vs Ku in this forum one time too. and how funny.

FYI "ect" refers to the below and not the fathom shock that precious D has an ounce of fault.
_
Et cetera (in English, /ɛtˈsɛtərə/ or /ɛtˈsɛdərə/; Latin pronunciation: [ɛt ˈkeːtɛra]) (rare: etceteros) is a Latin expression that means "and other things", or "and so forth". It is taken directly from the Latin expression which literally means "and the rest (of such things)" and is a loan-translation of the Greek "καὶ τὰ ἕτερα" (kai ta hetera; "and the other things". The more usual Greek form is "καὶ τὰ λοιπά" kai ta loipa: "and the remainder"). Et means "and"; cētera means "the rest"._

Btw
Truth and facts are from Reality,
and Not of blue hued blind faith.


----------



## sacflies

My HR-23 just shut itself down again and is rebooting. No TV for the next 15 minutes...thanks DTV! This is happening every day now, sometimes several times a day. Nice to pay nearly $100 a month for sluggish receivers that shut themselves off everyday. Dish is looking better and better. I better hop to it.


----------



## RACJ2

Bamasat said:


> Another Blueman again i see.
> I saw you guys jump on a installer who does both systems considering Facts of rain fade and Ka vs Ku in this forum one time too. and how funny.
> 
> FYI *"ect"* refers to the below and not the fathom shock that precious D has an ounce of fault.
> _
> Et cetera (in English, /ɛtˈsɛtərə/ or /ɛtˈsɛdərə/; Latin pronunciation: [ɛt ˈkeːtɛra]) (rare: etceteros) is a Latin expression that means "and other things", or "and so forth". It is taken directly from the Latin expression which literally means "and the rest (of such things)" and is a loan-translation of the Greek "καὶ τὰ ἕτερα" (kai ta hetera; "and the other things". The more usual Greek form is "καὶ τὰ λοιπά" kai ta loipa: "and the remainder"). Et means "and"; cētera means "the rest"._
> 
> Btw
> Truth and facts are from Reality,
> and Not of blue hued blind faith.


You obviously haven't read many of my posts, I'm only half blueman. I praise DIRECTV when they deserve it and tell it like it is, when I don't agree with something. I guess I'll just agree with your post below, that you don't use spell check. The abbreviation for Et cetera is *etc*, not *ect*. 


Bamasat said:


> Wait on the edit button /spell check *ect*... then.
> Im old


On the subject about sluggishness, my HR22 was worse when it was on the SD GUI. And I have been traveling on business a lot since my HR34 went on HD GUI. So I can't really comment on speed. Its been responding fine, when I access it via my Slingbox though.


----------



## joed32

Bamasat said:


> Another Blueman again i see.
> I saw you guys jump on a installer who does both systems considering Facts of rain fade and Ka vs Ku in this forum one time too. and how funny.
> 
> FYI "ect" refers to the below and not the fathom shock that precious D has an ounce of fault.
> _
> Et cetera (in English, /ɛtˈsɛtərə/ or /ɛtˈsɛdərə/; Latin pronunciation: [ɛt ˈkeːtɛra]) (rare: etceteros) is a Latin expression that means "and other things", or "and so forth". It is taken directly from the Latin expression which literally means "and the rest (of such things)" and is a loan-translation of the Greek "καὶ τὰ ἕτερα" (kai ta hetera; "and the other things". The more usual Greek form is "καὶ τὰ λοιπά" kai ta loipa: "and the remainder"). Et means "and"; cētera means "the rest"._
> 
> Btw
> Truth and facts are from Reality,
> and Not of blue hued blind faith.


And it's El Segundo, used to work for Hughes.


----------



## sunking

MikeW said:


> Power Save mode.


Seriously, if a watch dog timer that tests to see if you've used the remote in 2 hours and turns off the hdmi output is the cause of these troubles then things are worse than our worst fears as far as the software is concerned.


----------



## Rich

Mike Greer said:


> The strangest thing to me as far as the great DirecTV defenders are concerned is.... Why would so many people just make up these problems? It feels like they think that I (and others with trouble) are just bored and have to make up stories about how sluggish, remote ignoring, etc DirecTV DVRs are.
> 
> Why would we make it up? Did we get together and start a 'Pick on poor DirecTV' club?


I've always wondered about that. When you get a question asking you how you can prove your problems exist are you supposed to invite the poster to come to your home and see for himself/herself that the issues you post about actually exist and are not products of our imagination?



> If the DVRs just worked as claimed I probably wouldn't even know about DBSTalk to begin with.


That's the reason I'm here too.

Rich


----------



## sunking

wahooq said:


> From what im reading no one is saying its not hapopening...just that these arent widespread issues


Not true, the point of this thread is that it appears that Directv is in fact denying it, at least to the public. I understand how these things go in the corporate world, never admit anything to the public, deny things aren't perfect as we work on it in the background, fix it and pretend it never happened.

Still doesn't mean I have to like it though. When my kids do this they get punished, Directv just gets another months bill from me.


----------



## Rich

Bamasat said:


> Sooooon is a real word for me after about 18 yrs with this provider.
> AND The Websters definition of "soon" not the D definition or these puppets here.
> (some Just Might be placed puppets fyi.. There is history of this here. Many now get checks from D* But started right here as a poster/ moderator.
> shhhh they dont want you to know that though . lol)


Most of us know that some folks aspire to a job with D* and we know that some folks have gotten those jobs. More power to them.

Rich


----------



## Rich

raott said:


> Which is based on nothing. There are certain posters, with very long track records, seen across multiple threads where they bend over backwards, repeatedly posting over and over to defend D*, no matter the issue.
> 
> I simply ignore them.


They are more prevalent on the D* website's forum. I find it hard to believe that all my HRs suffer from the same problems caused by the HD GUI and some members continue to think this isn't a wide spread condition. The next thing I expect is someone asking me to post my sat signal strengths as if that would have something to do with the problems caused by the HD GUI.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Bamasat said:


> Wait on the edit button /spell check ect... then.
> Im old


Can't blame poor writing on age. That's ridiculous. I think.

Rich


----------



## Richierich

Hoosier205 said:


> 75 episodes? That's just insane.


I have over 180 Episodes of Diners, Driveins and Dives so I guess I am in the same Category as Rich, I Am Insane and I Love It!!! :lol:

I need to do some Maintenance today on my Playlist.


----------



## Richierich

sacflies said:


> Many times I have to attempt to input a channel number on the remote 5 or 6 times to get all the numbers to translate to the receiver (HR-23). It's not that the remote needs batteries. It just will not respond fast enough to change the channel efficiently. It is very aggravating.


Have you tried Hitting the Guide Button, then Entering the Channel Number (which will then work Fast and I don't know why it does but it does work as it should, Fast) and then Hit the Enter Button.

I know it is a Workaround until Directv Fixed this Problem but it works for me on my HR23-700s.

Or you can Hit the Info Button, Enter your Channel Number and then Exit the Banner.


----------



## Rich

DawgLink said:


> Eh, the insinuation at times is that we are either over-exaggerating or making up the problem, imo. No, I don't mean everyone here as MOST if not all are incredibly nice at dealing with our issues.
> 
> But, I must admit I am surprised at 1) The amount of people having the issues of slowness that I am having and 2) The amount of people that come off as angry that we are having these issues.


I think if we all would stop complaining about "slowness" and were less vague about our problems this would be easier to work thru.

What exactly do you mean by "slowness"? I've been very specific about the problems I'm having and I've stated the problems I'm having are due to the new HD GUI. I expected this to happen. I also expect it to be fixed ASAP. That doesn't mean tomorrow, it means as soon as possible, possible being the important word. I can live with my problems, they're not earth-shattering.

Rich


----------



## Rich

luckydob said:


> Oh, how you overestimate the public. How many users just accept the issues as is? Because they are ignorant to the issues and do not call to complain, does not mean there is not a problem. My mom hates how slow the hr20 is, but would she ever call up and complain? Nope! She just accepts this as the way it was supposed to work...frustrated as she is, it would never dawn on her that the units are not working how they should until I mentioned it.


Good post. We can get right to the heart of an issue, but the general public has no idea what's going on. What some people don't seem to be able to grasp is how QC works.

Let's take beer bottles as an example. 12 ounce nonreturnable beer bottles are not inspected bottle by bottle. An inspector goes to a pallet full of boxed or wrapped beer bottles and selects a certain number of bottles and inspects those bottles. If a certain number of those bottles have defects the whole pallet and perhaps the whole run of those bottles will be rejected.

The percentage of bottles inspected is not close to 15%. I keep seeing that number batted around and it's pretty high, I think.

Rich


----------



## augisdad

I too experienced the slowness issue with my HR20-100. One day I was down to 1% free due to a marathon that attempted to record. After that happened, the HDGUI was not even displaying colors, or showing lines between listings as it would wait 15-30 secs before transitioning to the next menu. I will have to say however, that I have not had the slow response after having the HR20-100 moved to the SDtv in the bedroom and getting HMC installed with the HR34.

I am compiling a list of HR34 issues, (but that will go in another topic).


----------



## Rich

sacflies said:


> Many times I have to attempt to input a channel number on the remote 5 or 6 times to get all the numbers to translate to the receiver (HR-23). It's not that the remote needs batteries. It just will not respond fast enough to change the channel efficiently. It is very aggravating. I, like many, have just accepted this as the way it is with DTV receivers.


It's not normal for that to happen. I've never had that problem, when I punch in a channel number it always works unless I fumble the input myself. What you've got is a slow series 21 receiver that was slow to begin with and will always be slower than the 20-700s and much slower than the 24s.



> I was hoping the new, faster, slicker upgrade recently would have helped, but it actually seems even slower now. This is really just unacceptable not to be able to do a very basic function without these kinds of issues. It is hard to believe that they can't fix this. I have always wondered if using an A/V receiver (hooking the sat box to the receiver then out to the TV) is part of the problem with my equipment...the HDMI handshake issue. I suppose it does contribute to problem. But that is no excuse for DTV not to be able to fix these issues, as many people use AVR's in their setups these days.


Why don't you get a 24? There's your "new, faster, slicker" upgrade.

Rich


----------



## Hoosier205

Rich said:


> They are more prevalent on the D* website's forum. I find it hard to believe that all my HRs suffer from the same problems caused by the HD GUI and some members continue to think this isn't a wide spread condition. The next thing I expect is someone asking me to post my sat signal strengths as if that would have something to do with the problems caused by the HD GUI.
> 
> Rich


Again, you are saying that the problems are in fact caused by the HDGUI. The problems being discussed existed for many people here prior to the HDGUI making an appearance. Aside from the timing, what proof do you have that the cause is the HDGUI? If you do have proof...it may help folks identify a solution.


----------



## Rich

SPG900NY said:


> I had no idea others were having this issue. I have an HR-24 and the box will just go unresponsive at times for up to six or seven minutes. Then all the commands that I had tried to execute from the remote will run at once. A reboot of the box seems to fix it for a while. I did try to clear out a lot of recordings. I have 45% free, but still ran into the issue yesterday.


I had that happen on a 24-500. Thought I'd have to get another one. Then I sat back and considered my options. I ended up flushing the Guide data by rebooting twice in less than a half hour and the 500 has been running normally ever since. Try that.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Bamasat said:


> Another Blueman again i see.
> I saw you guys jump on a installer who does both systems considering Facts of rain fade and Ka vs Ku in this forum one time too. and how funny.
> 
> FYI "ect" refers to the below and not the fathom shock that precious D has an ounce of fault.
> _
> Et cetera (in English, /ɛtˈsɛtərə/ or /ɛtˈsɛdərə/; Latin pronunciation: [ɛt ˈkeːtɛra]) (rare: etceteros) is a Latin expression that means "and other things", or "and so forth". It is taken directly from the Latin expression which literally means "and the rest (of such things)" and is a loan-translation of the Greek "καὶ τὰ ἕτερα" (kai ta hetera; "and the other things". The more usual Greek form is "καὶ τὰ λοιπά" kai ta loipa: "and the remainder"). Et means "and"; cētera means "the rest"._
> 
> Btw
> Truth and facts are from Reality,
> and Not of blue hued blind faith.


His point was the proper spelling is "etc." I'm sure most of us understood what you meant, but the mistake was yours.

Rich


----------



## Richierich

Rich said:


> His point was the proper spelling is "etc." I'm sure most of us understood what you meant, but the mistake was yours.
> 
> Rich


Yes ETC is the Abbreviation for Et Cetera and you Spelled it ECT. Spellcheck would help in this case. :lol:


----------



## Rich

Hoosier205 said:


> Again, you are saying that the problems are in fact caused by the HDGUI. The problems being discussed existed for many people here prior to the HDGUI making an appearance. Aside from the timing, what proof do you have that the cause is the HDGUI? If you do have proof...it may help folks identify a solution.


You're actually asking that question again. Amazing.

To repeat myself: I see no slowness in the ordinary usage of the DVRs, never did. But, after the HD GUI NR downloads, almost anything I do that involves the HD GUI has slowed drastically. On all twelve of my HRs. I see it to a lesser degree on my 24s than I do on my 20-700s, but the 24s have always been a tad quicker than my 20-700s.

I realize many people have issues I don't have, but I think I've just got a collection of HRs that are better than most folks have. Again, the 21 series HRs are slow, the slowest to respond to commands. That's a fact that not many people are gonna argue about.

This thread is about D*'s CSRs denying that people are having real issues with their HRs. You've been proving that.

Rich


----------



## pfp

Perhaps some will call me a liar but I also have issues with slow HD DVR's. I won't go so far as to claim this is due to the HD GUI but it did start around that time. I also had an HR20 replaced by a HR21 (separate issue) and the HR21 is DEFINITELY much worse. Tried clearing the nvram a couple days ago and this has helped.


----------



## Hoosier205

Rich said:


> You're actually asking that question again. Amazing.
> 
> To repeat myself: I see no slowness in the ordinary usage of the DVRs, never did. But, after the HD GUI NR downloads, almost anything I do that involves the HD GUI has slowed drastically. On all twelve of my HRs. I see it to a lesser degree on my 24s than I do on my 20-700s, but the 24s have always been a tad quicker than my 20-700s.
> 
> I realize many people have issues I don't have, but I think I've just got a collection of HRs that are better than most folks have. Again, the 21 series HRs are slow, the slowest to respond to commands. That's a fact that not many people are gonna argue about.
> 
> This thread is about D*'s CSRs denying that people are having real issues with their HRs. You've been proving that.
> 
> Rich


So it is based on assumption and no proof of any kind. I just want us to all be clear on that when you continue to claim that it IS the HDGUI causing the issue. Never mind that the very same issues existed prior to the HDGUI...


----------



## MikeW

sunking said:


> Seriously, if a watch dog timer that tests to see if you've used the remote in 2 hours and turns off the hdmi output is the cause of these troubles then things are worse than our worst fears as far as the software is concerned.


While it didn't work for Rich, it worked for me. Just providing another option...


----------



## Mike Bertelson

Hoosier205 said:


> So it is based on assumption and no proof of any kind. I just want us to all be clear on that when you continue to claim that it IS the HDGUI causing the issue. Never mind that the very same issues existed prior to the HDGUI...


I guess the question is if someone went years with no real speed issues until the HDGUI, is it a reasonable assumption that the HDGUI is a contributing factor? There's no proof but it makes sense.

I seem to remember, at least initially, the HDGUI sped things up a bit. Maybe clearing NVRAM could help.

Mike


----------



## bobcamp1

Hoosier205 said:


> Again, you are saying that the problems are in fact caused by the HDGUI. The problems being discussed existed for many people here prior to the HDGUI making an appearance. Aside from the timing, what proof do you have that the cause is the HDGUI? If you do have proof...it may help folks identify a solution.


Yes, people had these issues before the HDGUI release. But those problems have gotten much worse and more widespread since the HDGUI release. Slow receivers got even slower, and "fast" receivers became slow. For the several months prior to this release, there was no sudden increase in speed complaints like there are now.

I can't believe that all these lurkers and fanboys are now suddenly complaining about speed unless it has recently changed for the worse for them.

And by HD GUI release, I mean the software release that first contained the HD GUI and several other features and "enhancements." (0x57B?) Who cares exactly what in the software is causing the problem? That's for D* to figure out. All users can say is it was immediately after they received that software release when things started to go downhill.

You're thinking there's something in the guide data or satellites causing the issue. In which case, it still falls on the receiver software to fix it. If D* could have changed that data back to where it was, they probably would have already done it by now. Plus, when that has happened in the past it affected everybody and at the same time. This isn't following that pattern.

If it walks like a duck, swims like a duck, quacks like like a duck, and acts like a duck, you're the only one thinking it could be a cow in a duck costume. While very creative, I'm pretty sure it's just a duck.


----------



## SPG900NY

I was wondering the following -- could these issues be exacerbated by the "Instant On-Demand?" DirecTV has to push these movies to our DVR's, right? I think they offer like 10 or more Instant On-Demand movies at any given time, because they're right there in my Guide.

I know if I actually go to view an On-Demand video, it takes forever to buffer up enough that I can watch the whole show without pausing. So D* must be sending these complete movies to my DVR, and once they're saved, the option appears in the guide to do an instant view. How much space do these take up? If they're 1080p, I'd imagine they might be 10GB each? That's up to 100GB taken up by instant view movies I might never watch.

And I'm sure they're being added and deleted and downloaded when I'm trying to do other stuff on the DVR. That has to slow things down. 

Is there any possible validity to this? Or do I not understand how Instant On-Demand works?


----------



## Bamasat

Rich said:


> Can't blame poor writing on age. That's ridiculous. I think.
> 
> Rich


Oh No! 
Not only do you have to face "the blue man group" here,
there is also a "self appointed literary council!".

:lol:

BUT
I bet AND like i JUST read,
in a thread/posts, with mis spelling and no punctuation BUT in _Ommmmage mantras_ to D*. No one would type a peep.

hmmm
I know another Truth... I didnt see a literary council there. !:lol:
But it sure smelled of Blue!


----------



## Rich

Hoosier205 said:


> So it is based on assumption and no proof of any kind. I just want us to all be clear on that when you continue to claim that it IS the HDGUI causing the issue. *Never mind that the very same issues existed prior to the HDGUI.*..


Where did you get that idea? I never said that. What kind of "proof" would you like? Do you even know what that might be? Your lack of comprehension is a bit scary. Nobody enjoys having their words twisted, especially me.


----------



## Richierich

Rich said:


> Where did you get that idea? I never said that. What kind of "proof" would you like? Do you even know what that might be? Your lack of comprehension is a bit scary. Nobody enjoys having their words twisted, especially me.


Go Get 'Em Rich!!! :lol:


----------



## Rich

Richierich said:


> Go Get 'Em Rich!!! :lol:


Can you believe this???....:lol:

Rich


----------



## Richierich

Rich said:


> Can you believe this???....:lol:
> 
> Rich


NO, I CAN'T!!!


----------



## fleckrj

SPG900NY said:


> I was wondering the following -- could these issues be exacerbated by the "Instant On-Demand?" DirecTV has to push these movies to our DVR's, right? I think they offer like 10 or more Instant On-Demand movies at any given time, because they're right there in my Guide.
> 
> I know if I actually go to view an On-Demand video, it takes forever to buffer up enough that I can watch the whole show without pausing. So D* must be sending these complete movies to my DVR, and once they're saved, the option appears in the guide to do an instant view. How much space do these take up? If they're 1080p, I'd imagine they might be 10GB each? *That's up to 100GB taken up by instant view movies I might never watch.*
> 
> And I'm sure they're being added and deleted and downloaded when I'm trying to do other stuff on the DVR. That has to slow things down.
> 
> Is there any possible validity to this? Or do I not understand how Instant On-Demand works?


I do not follow your reasoning. If you are never going to watch an On-Demand video, why are you downloading it? They are not being downloaded to your DVR unless you initiate the download. If you are not downloading anything, then the fact that they appear in the guide and someone else might be downloading one would have no effect on the speed of your DVR.

If you are in the process of downloading something, then I suspect that would have an effect on the speed of other things you might be doing with the DVR. When you do initiate a download, then the entire program is downloaded to the hard drive on your DVR, but you do not have to wait for the entire show to download before you can start watching it. How long it takes before you can start watching depends on your internet connection speed.


----------



## lparsons21

Some on demand stuff is downloaded without you doing a thing. Mostly the latest PPV movies.


----------



## AlanSaysYo

fleckrj said:


> I do not follow your reasoning. If you are never going to watch an On-Demand video, why are you downloading it? They are not being downloaded to your DVR unless you initiate the download.


My understanding is that those movies ARE being downloaded to my DVR whether I want them or not. That's why they start immediately when I buy one of them.


----------



## Hoosier205

Rich said:


> Where did you get that idea? I never said that. What kind of "proof" would you like? Do you even know what that might be? Your lack of comprehension is a bit scary. Nobody enjoys having their words twisted, especially me.


...because the very same issues existed prior to the HDGUI. That's where I got it from. Why is that so confusing? People have been complaining about the very same issues since long before the HDGUI appeared. I'd like whatever proof you can provide. You keep claiming that you know exactly what is causing these problems...so back it up.


----------



## Bamasat

Hoosier205 said:


> ...because the very same issues existed prior to the HDGUI. That's where I got it from. Why is that so confusing? People have been complaining about the very same issues since long before the HDGUI appeared. I'd like whatever proof you can provide. You keep claiming that you know exactly what is causing these problems...so back it up.


Tell me what this is and what it may be a sign of?
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=203898


----------



## Hoosier205

Bamasat said:


> Tell me what this is and what it may be a sign of?
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=203898


I have no idea, nor do I care about a topic in another thread. How many times have you been banned now Bama?


----------



## jeepwrang3

From what i've read, and personally experienced, the old guide was slow. The HD Gui vastly improved the speed of the guide and my viewing experience. Over the past 2 months i've seen, as what many others have experienced a degredation in the responsiveness of the unit. It's that simple.


----------



## Bamasat

Hoosier205 said:


> I have no idea, nor do I care about a topic in another thread. How many times have you been banned now Bama?


Read it.
Tell me what UI on any device and this occurrence refers to.
*usually.
The original poster has a 34.

Im Bama*SAT* and dont understand your reference?
But "roll tide" anyway.


----------



## Rich

Hoosier205 said:


> ...because the very same issues existed prior to the HDGUI. That's where I got it from. Why is that so confusing? People have been complaining about the very same issues since long before the HDGUI appeared. I'd like whatever proof you can provide. You keep claiming that you know exactly what is causing these problems...so back it up.


People have been complaining about the same issues I'm talking about for how long? For the last time, I don't have any slow HRs. Never had them unless I filled up an external drive to the point where it slowed the HR down. What I've been talking about is the HD GUI NR and the problems that NR caused.

Did you understand that? Again, how to prove anything to you without knowing what that proof might entail is impossible. You must realize that. Saying the same thing over and over is not gonna change anything.


----------



## Rich

jeepwrang3 said:


> From what i've read, and personally experienced, the old guide was slow. The HD Gui vastly improved the speed of the guide and my viewing experience. Over the past 2 months i've seen, as what many others have experienced a degredation in the responsiveness of the unit. It's that simple.


Next, you'll be asked to prove that. How, I don't know. Yes, your answer is simple and well put, but that's not gonna deter these naysayers from implying that you're making all this up.

Rich


----------



## fleckrj

lparsons21 said:


> Some on demand stuff is downloaded without you doing a thing. Mostly the latest PPV movies.





AlanSaysYo said:


> My understanding is that those movies ARE being downloaded to my DVR whether I want them or not. That's why they start immediately when I buy one of them.


I hope someone else can chime in on this, but if that was the case, I would expect that my DVR hard drive would fill up, I would exceed my 5 Gb/month download limit, or both. So far, neither has happened to me.


----------



## Hoosier205

Rich said:


> People have been complaining about the same issues I'm talking about for how long? For the last time, I don't have any slow HRs. Never had them unless I filled up an external drive to the point where it slowed the HR down. What I've been talking about is the HD GUI NR and the problems that NR caused.
> 
> Did you understand that? Again, how to prove anything to you without knowing what that proof might entail is impossible. You must realize that. Saying the same thing over and over is not gonna change anything.


Yes, I understand that you are complaining about and blaming the HDGUI NR based upon assumptions. I think we can agree on that and move on.


----------



## Hoosier205

Rich said:


> Next, you'll be asked to prove that. How, I don't know. Yes, your answer is simple and well put, but that's not gonna deter these naysayers from implying that you're making all this up.
> 
> Rich


Please quote the post where someone has implied that you or anyone else is making up the fact that they have these issues. No one doubts that the issues exist for some.


----------



## Rich

Hoosier205 said:


> Yes, I understand that you are complaining about and blaming the HDGUI NR* based upon assumptions*. I think we can agree on that and move on.


Do you know what "assumptions" means? I see the HD GUI issues every day, how can that be an assumption?


----------



## Rich

Hoosier205 said:


> Please quote the post where someone has implied that you or anyone else is making up the fact that they have these issues. No one doubts that the issues exist for some.


And yet you call the issues assumptions. Makes no sense.


----------



## Hoosier205

Rich said:


> Do you know what "assumptions" means? I see the HD GUI issues every day, how can that be an assumption?





Rich said:


> And yet you call the issues assumptions. Makes no sense.


...the use of the word "assumptions" has been used in response to your belief that the HDGUI NR is the cause of the issues and not that the issues exist. The issues do exist for some and have for a very long time. That they are caused by the introduction of the HDGUI is an assumption on your part. I have been very clear about that. No one, including myself, has accused you of lying about having these problems.

It does makes sense. I could not possibly have been more clear with the use of the word, "assumptions."


----------



## raott

"Hoosier205" said:


> ...because the very same issues existed prior to the HDGUI. That's where I got it from. Why is that so confusing? People have been complaining about the very same issues since long before the HDGUI appeared. I'd like whatever proof you can provide. You keep claiming that you know exactly what is causing these problems...so back it up.


Wrong, because what you left out, is that many of the issues were largely resolved before the HDGUI. Keybounce issues were gone, speed was ok, never great but just ok, no tens of seconds for the menu to come up or the menu to change. Those are all occurring now. They weren't just before the HDGUI.

No one owes you, nor are you entitled to, "proof".


----------



## Hoosier205

raott said:


> Wrong, because what you left out, is that many of the issues were largely resolved before the HDGUI. Keybounce issues were gone, speed was ok, never great but just ok, no tens of seconds for the menu to come up or the menu to change. Those are all occurring now. They weren't just before the HDGUI.
> 
> No one owes you, nor are you entitled to, "proof".


I'm not sure what forum you were on, but those issues were not "largely resolved" before the HDGUI unless you had an HR24. I had these issues with an older HR. I have not had any of these issues with any of my HR24's either before or after the HDGUI. Some have, some have not.


----------



## raott

"Hoosier205" said:


> I'm not sure what forum you were on, but those issues were not "largely resolved" before the HDGUI unless you had an HR24. I had these issues with an older HR. I have not had any of these issues with any of my HR24's either before or after the HDGUI. Some have, some have not.


Show me proof you were having those issues and they did not resolve.


----------



## AlanSaysYo

fleckrj said:


> I hope someone else can chime in on this, but if that was the case, I would expect that my DVR hard drive would fill up, I would exceed my 5 Gb/month download limit, or both. So far, neither has happened to me.


Hopefully someone with better info will chime in, but here are some links pertaining to what DirecTV does with the PPV downloads:

http://forums.directv.com/pe/action/forums/displaypost?postID=10450810
http://forums.directv.com/pe/action/forums/displaypost?postID=10563675

From what I've read and understand, this content is downloaded to a partition on your DVR's drive that you normally wouldn't be able to access for recordings anyway, so while the movies won't fill up your DVR, the partition will always wall you off from using all the space on the drive. Frustrating to know that extra space is there, and you can't use it. The upside is that you can instantly watch some PPVs, if you're into that sort of thing.


----------



## Hoosier205

raott said:


> Show me proof you were having those issues and they did not resolve.


I no longer have anything other than HR24's in my home. Asking someone to prove that they had a problem with a piece of equipment no longer in their possession is not the same as asking someone to provide proof that they have pinpointed the exact cause of a problem. I hope you can see the difference there.


----------



## Richierich

Directv Retains 100 Gigabytes of Reserved Hard Drive Space for Housekeeping and other Functions such as storing Downloaded PPV Movies, etc.


----------



## TBoneit

fleckrj said:


> I hope someone else can chime in on this, but if that was the case, I would expect that my DVR hard drive would fill up, I would exceed my 5 Gb/month download limit, or both. So far, neither has happened to me.


The Ones you can watch instantly are download from the satellites when the system is idle. They do not come in over the internet.

The ones that you have to wait while they are streaming are being downloaded over the internet.

That is the basic difference.

They both go into a reserved space on the hard drive and not into the user section where your timers store the shows.

I hope I'm clear enough?


----------



## Richierich

I believe that the HDGUI solved Speed Issues for some people and created More Speed Issues for other people based upon the type of DVR they were using.

My Experience was that it was Better and Faster and I was Very Puzzled when I learned that many many people were not as happy as I was and were Experiencing Speed Issues and Other Problems with the New HDGUI.

Perhaps some of the older DVRs couldn't handle the HDGUI and others worked better.

Hopefully, Soon there will be a New NR which will correct these speed issues for everyone with every different make of DVR.


----------



## Rich

Hoosier205 said:


> ...the use of the word "assumptions" has been used in response to your belief that the HDGUI NR is the cause of the issues and not that the issues exist. The issues do exist for some and have for a very long time. That they are caused by the introduction of the HDGUI is an assumption on your part. I have been very clear about that. No one, including myself, has accused you of lying about having these problems.
> 
> It does makes sense. I could not possibly have been more clear with the use of the word, "assumptions."


Still can't see how you arrived at that conclusion. But enough, I can only take so much of this.


----------



## Rich

raott said:


> Wrong, because what you left out, is that many of the issues were largely resolved before the HDGUI. Keybounce issues were gone, speed was ok, never great but just ok, no tens of seconds for the menu to come up or the menu to change. Those are all occurring now. They weren't just before the HDGUI.
> 
> No one owes you, nor are you entitled to, "proof".


What "proof" would have satisfied him, notice how he avoided that?

Rich


----------



## Rich

raott said:


> Show me proof you were having those issues and they did not resolve.


....:lol:

Rich


----------



## Bamasat

raott said:


> Show me proof you were having those issues and they did not resolve.


:lol:

And you spelled right!
Thus, No Self absorbed and appointed literary counsel ... was needed nor appeared.


----------



## Rich

Bamasat said:


> :lol:


Now, THAT was a good post. Right to the point.

Rich


----------



## CCarncross

I know some are having major issues....I have found much better performance in almost all aspects of use since the HDGUI was installed..nothing is slower, somethings just arent that much faster while others are much faster than before. I have 2 HR22-100's and an HR20-700. The HR20 is noticeably faster than in everything than it ever has been in its 5 1/2 years of service at my place. The external drive I'm using is about 2 years old now.


----------



## Richierich

Some people here in this wonderful Forum just love to argue and fight over the most ridiculous things, some so minuscule that I am Totally Amazed that they spend so much Energy doing it over and over again to No Avail.

If somehow you might win the argument it would be different but it is like discussing Religion or Politics, people are going to Believe What They Believe and you ain't gonna (spelled that way on purpose) change that. :lol:


----------



## DawgLink

Richierich said:


> Some people here in this wonderful Forum just love to argue and fight over the most ridiculous things


This forum? You mean....every internet forum?


----------



## Richierich

DawgLink said:


> This forum? You mean....every internet forum?


Yes, I'm sorry you are Correct.

It seems like people are just Bored and Love to Argue as if they are really going to change the other person's opinion. :lol:

AMAZING!!!

OH WELL!!!


----------



## Barcthespark

Richierich said:


> Some people here in this wonderful Forum just love to argue and fight over the most ridiculous things, some so minuscule that I am Totally Amazed that they spend so much Energy doing it over and over again to No Avail.
> 
> If somehow you might win the argument it would be different but it is like discussing Religion or Politics, people are going to Believe What They Believe and you ain't gonna (spelled that way on purpose) change that. :lol:


I think it is because there is a very condescending antagonist here that greatly irritates many posters. I bet he has permanently driven away people from DBSTALK.

Of course I have no proof of that...


----------



## Bamasat

Barcthespark said:


> I think it is because* there is a* very condescending antagonist here that greatly irritates many posters. I bet he has permanently driven away people from DBSTALK.
> 
> Of course I have no proof of that...


ONE?
Its hideous !
(considering 90% (at least) of those blue logo defender*s* here)
Good for a great laugh though i admit.


----------



## Barcthespark

Bamasat said:


> ONE?
> Its hideous !
> (considering 90% (at least) of those blue logo defender*s* here)
> Good for a great laugh though i admit.


OK, maybe it is just the one that gets under my skin so badly. :lol:


----------



## Hoosier205

"Barcthespark" said:


> I think it is because there is a very condescending antagonist here that greatly irritates many posters. I bet he has permanently driven away people from DBSTALK.
> 
> Of course I have no proof of that...


Do you have anything to add to the topic?


----------



## dsw2112

From time to time I find it helpful to put folks on the ignore list  Just a thought


----------



## sigma1914

Barcthespark said:


> I think it is because there is a very condescending antagonist here that greatly irritates many posters. I bet he has permanently driven away people from DBSTALK.
> 
> Of course I have no proof of that...





Bamasat said:


> ONE?
> Its hideous !
> (considering 90% (at least) of those blue logo defender*s* here)
> Good for a great laugh though i admit.


It's not just the fanboys who push people away. Sometimes the constant whining and complaining members have the same affect. Everyone should act more like the adults we're supposed to be.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

Stop with the discussion about each other. If you don't have something to post on the topic then DO NOT POST. I will be the one to decide if it's on topic....

Mike


----------



## android.cphone

My hr24/500 has response issues with remote i press a button and it takes several seconds for the box to respond direct tv says its not an issue on their end told me to buy a new remote


----------



## dpeters11

"android.cphone" said:


> My hr24/500 has response issues with remote i press a button and it takes several seconds for the box to respond direct tv says its not an issue on their end told me to buy a new remote


That would keep the model ID from bring sent with each key, but that can be done with the stock remote. Some have seen a bigger improvement from that than others.


----------



## MysteryMan

android.cphone said:


> My hr24/500 has response issues with remote i press a button and it takes several seconds for the box to respond direct tv says its not an issue on their end told me to buy a new remote


Your TV's backlight may be causing the problem.


----------



## dpeters11

Very true. A quick test, if the setting is set to vivid mode (usually the default and brightest), what happens of its set to movie or cinema mode?


----------



## TomK

I changed (on my HR23) to the other buffer today and then proceeded to press a 3-digit channel number. I kid you not, it was so slow that it took me 45 seconds to be able to get just those three numbers on the screen in order to press the 'Select' button. I find that to be rather unacceptable. Is there any way I can revert to the SDGUI? I know, I know, I can't revert, but I don't recall the SDGUI ever being this pitiful. Maybe I have Pandora and Youtube and whatever else stupid TV Apps are loaded to thank for this slug of a receiver.


----------



## dpeters11

We've been specifically told that those features don't come into play when not in use.


----------



## dpeters11

"TomK" said:


> I changed (on my HR23) to the other buffer today and then proceeded to press a 3-digit channel number. I kid you not, it was so slow that it took me 45 seconds to be able to get just those three numbers on the screen in order to press the 'Select' button. I find that to be rather unacceptable. Is there any way I can revert to the SDGUI? I know, I know, I can't revert, but I don't recall the SDGUI ever being this pitiful. Maybe I have Pandora and Youtube and whatever else stupid TV Apps are loaded to thank for this slug of a receiver.


I don't have a 23, but doing the same on my 34 was about 4-5 seconds before the video came up. Obviously the 23 would be slower and I didn't have much recording at the time,


----------



## Bamasat

android.cphone said:


> My hr24/500 has response issues with remote i press a button and it takes several seconds for the box to respond direct tv says its not an issue on their end told me to buy a new remote


Wow thats nice , your fix is only about 20 bucks . (remote)
Mine was over 400$ bucks and at a 2 yrs dividend of over 2400$.

But then
Then there is this:

HR34: 0x0547 HDUI - Issues/Discussion Thread 
HR34 0x04CD: Issues/Discussion
Various:http://www.dbstalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=112

So what do you cure except getting the feeling of being "robbed without a pistol"..??.

Tells me to RUN, and say " Help its a trap !!!. "
(or should i say "their" NOMINAL trap/ And as to refer to NDS and rupert from the beginning and when they stepped near D*....)


----------



## Barcthespark

Hoosier205 said:


> Do you have anything to add to the topic?


[deleted]
My HR21-700 became unbearably slower after the HDGUI was installed.

Here is a workaround from poster 34290Mem in thread http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2996261&highlight=blue,blue#post2996261

"Go to Channel 1 (customer information channel) and press (in this order):

red,red,blue,blue,yellow,green

not too fast, not too slow. If done correctly, you'll see a message at the bottom left corner of your screen saying something like "NVRAM/Cache cleared..." (it's really tough to read).

Once that is done (may take a few tries to even see the message), do a soft reset with the red reset button on the dvr."

Only problem is that this workaround needs to be repeated every week or two because the DVR gradually slows down again.


----------



## eileen22

"Hoosier205" said:


> ...the use of the word "assumptions" has been used in response to your belief that the HDGUI NR is the cause of the issues and not that the issues exist. The issues do exist for some and have for a very long time. That they are caused by the introduction of the HDGUI is an assumption on your part. I have been very clear about that. No one, including myself, has accused you of lying about having these problems.
> 
> It does makes sense. I could not possibly have been more clear with the use of the word, "assumptions."


Those of us making the "assumption" that the HDGUI is causing the slowness of our receivers are saying this: while these units have had slowness issues in the distant past, they were performing fine before the NR. After the NR, many of us are having the identical problems, several second delays to respond to remote commands, lengthy delays when deleting recordings, etc. For me, these are unique slowness problems that I have NEVER seen before the NR. Even back a few years ago when my HR20 was slow, this slowness was not in performing those tasks that are now slow. Again, my HR20 was perfectly fine before the NR, I had zero complaints about its performance in the past 12+ months. Now, it is as frustrating to use as I can ever remember it being. And I find Rich's comments to be the most solid evidence we have to confirm that the NR is the cause, since he has so many boxes, all with the same issues that only started AFTER the NR. IMO, it is more of an assumption to think that the NR did not cause the problems, given the evidence.


----------



## Richierich

TomK said:


> I changed (on my HR23) to the other buffer today and then proceeded to press a 3-digit channel number. I kid you not, it was so slow that it took me 45 seconds to be able to get just those three numbers on the screen in order to press the 'Select' button.


Have you tried my Workaround?

I Hit the Guide Button and then Enter the Channel Number (which is this Mode comes up fast as it normally should) and then Hit the Enter Button and then Hit the Exit Button.

It works even though it does take more keystrokes.

Or Hit the Info Button, Enter the Channel Number and then Hit the Exit Button.


----------



## Rich

android.cphone said:


> My hr24/500 has response issues with remote i press a button and it takes several seconds for the box to respond direct tv says its not an issue on their end told me to buy a new remote


Do you have it in RF mode? I had a problem with a 500 just like you're having. It went from bad to worse and I had to get another 500 which has worked like a champ. I had the same problems with a 23 and a 22-100. Didn't matter if the remote was in RF or IR.

Rich


----------



## Rich

MysteryMan said:


> Your TV's backlight may be causing the problem.


I guess that only happens with the LCDs, no? I don't think I've ever had that problem with my plasmas.

Rich


----------



## Rich

eileen22 said:


> Those of us making the "assumption" that the HDGUI is causing the slowness of our receivers are saying this: while these units have had slowness issues in the distant past, they were performing fine before the NR. After the NR, many of us are having the identical problems, several second delays to respond to remote commands, lengthy delays when deleting recordings, etc. For me, these are unique slowness problems that I have NEVER seen before the NR. Even back a few years ago when my HR20 was slow, this slowness was not in performing those tasks that are now slow. Again, my HR20 was perfectly fine before the NR, I had zero complaints about its performance in the past 12+ months. Now, it is as frustrating to use as I can ever remember it being. And I find Rich's comments to be the most solid evidence we have to confirm that the NR is the cause, since he has so many boxes, all with the same issues that only started AFTER the NR. IMO, it is more of an assumption to think that the NR did not cause the problems, given the evidence.


Wow! That was a logical post. And well written.

Rich


----------



## BattleScott

Just to add my experience:
My hr22 was terrible before the update, after it is still terrible. Keystrokes are still ignored, delayed or multiplied. Guide scrolling is still poor. Channel changes are still very slow. It was never anywhere near ok prior to the update. Since it is in the bedroom, it's not a big deal.

The Hr24 is the big issue. Before the update, it was very consistent. No remote response issues, guide scrolling was consistent and quick. Channel changes were the normal 4-5 secs to complete. Now, the operation is far more intermittent (not at the level of the 22, but still disappointing) with long lags when scrolling, frequent 20-30 sec channel change delays and slow remote responses.


----------



## MysteryMan

Rich said:


> I guess that only happens with the LCDs, no? I don't think I've ever had that problem with my plasmas.
> 
> Rich


Backlight problem is mostly with LCDs but on some Plasmas as well.


----------



## Richierich

BattleScott said:


> The Hr24 is the big issue. Before the update, it was very consistent. No remote response issues, guide scrolling was consistent and quick. Channel changes were the normal 4-5 secs to complete. Now, the operation is far more intermittent (not at the level of the 22, but still disappointing) with long lags when scrolling, frequent 20-30 sec channel change delays and slow remote responses.


And what Amazes and Puzzles me is that all 5 of my HR24-500s are Fast and I have No Problem whatsoever with them other than Channel Changing is Slow due to the HDMI Handshake.

That is what I don't understand unless it is something in your Environment that could be causing the problem.


----------



## raott

"Richierich" said:


> And what Amazes and Puzzles me is that all 5 of my HR24-500s are Fast and I have No Problem whatsoever with them other than Channel Changing is Slow due to the HDMI Handshake.
> 
> That is what I don't understand unless it is something in your Environment that could be causing the problem.


As I posted before, you are not using features others may be using. Double play for one. All of those variables need to be factored in.


----------



## Richierich

raott said:


> As I posted before, you are not using features others may be using. Double play for one. All of those variables need to be factored in.


Yes, but someone chimed in that those Features should not affect my HR24s performance which I disagree with and that is why I quit using these Features as I really didn't need them anyway but just tried them out of curiosity.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

If you are missing a recent post I will refer you to Post #268.

Please keep away from discussing other members and stay on topic.

Mike


----------



## billsharpe

raott said:


> Show me proof you were having those issues and they did not resolve.


Perhaps I should have asked you to come over to my house last September to prove that I was having problems with the slow response of my DVR's. What's the point of that? You just don't want to believe people who say they are having problems that they cannot easily resolve.

I resolved the problem by switching to another provider.


----------



## raott

"billsharpe" said:


> Perhaps I should have asked you to come over to my house last September to prove that I was having problems with the slow response of my DVR's. What's the point of that? You just don't want to believe people who say they are having problems that they cannot easily resolve.
> 
> I resolved the problem by switching to another provider.


It was a sarcastic post and you would need to review the prior posts to get the context.


----------



## Rich

billsharpe said:


> Perhaps I should have asked you to come over to my house last September to prove that I was having problems with the slow response of my DVR's. What's the point of that? You just don't want to believe people who say they are having problems that they cannot easily resolve.
> 
> I resolved the problem by switching to another provider.


You took his post out of context, Bill.

Rich


----------



## Northicex

Perhaps a bit late to this discussion but my two cents. In regards to OPs original grievance there is really not a good way for D* to address the issue. On the one hand if D* were to admit to the receivers being problematic (slightly untrue as they aren't defective just showing signs of aging hardware) then there would be an almighty rush for HR24 models and up, complaints to the usual government agencies ("There sending out a defective product and they won't compensate me!"), and just over all anarchy caused by such public admissions.

On the other hand the continued mindset of the HR units all being functionally equivalent and the continual deployment of refurbished HRs is something that will need to stop if there is to be a long term solution. There are a large numbers of outs (guaranteed models for a nominal fee, the back end HRs {21,22,23} being phased out by upgrade programs e.c.t) that at this point are not being pursued. Should they be? As an agent and consumer I would say so.

As an aside to the debate about the units slowing down after the NR launched. I personally can attest to a significant slow down on both my HR24 and HR34 when the software was updated (the 24 had a large increase in speed initially then slowed down, the 34 ground to a crawl day one). I do the usual temp fixes but there is something in the code here that is almost certainly causing the issues.

As much fun as I have with Pandora I would much prefer the DVRs core functions be up to speed before adding bells and whistles.


----------



## MikeW

I disagree with the notion that the problem is aging hardware. If that were the case, why would the HR24s slow down as well?+


----------



## Northicex

MikeW said:


> I disagree with the notion that the problem is aging hardware. If that were the case, why would the HR24s slow down as well?+


Not saying that that would be the universal root cause. The OP appears to be having issues which pertain to the older hardware types thus I addressed that first. Second part of my post address the software concern. I have a 24 and a 34 and like I said they are having the same sort of issue with system wide slowness.


----------



## Bamasat

Northicex said:


> Not saying that that would be the universal root cause. The OP appears to be having issues which pertain to the older hardware types thus I addressed that first. Second part of my post address the software concern. *I have a 24 and a 34 *and like I said they are having the same sort of issue with system wide slowness.


Another solid reference to why i say their quoted resolve
is/was for me to "upgrade at a cost and term commitment"
... in my eyes it is labeled as a _simple TRAP._


----------



## MikeW

Northicex said:


> Not saying that that would be the universal root cause. The OP appears to be having issues which pertain to the older hardware types thus I addressed that first. Second part of my post address the software concern. I have a 24 and a 34 and like I said they are having the same sort of issue with system wide slowness.


I have the following

3 HR 20-700s and 1 HR 24 - Never seem to have been affected
R22-100, HR21-100 and 1 HR24 - All slowed painfully. I have disabled power save and restarted them over the last three weeks and none have returned to their poor performing state since.


----------



## Northicex

MikeW said:


> I have the following
> 
> 3 HR 20-700s and 1 HR 24 - Never seem to have been affected
> R22-100, HR21-100 and 1 HR24 - All slowed painfully. I have disabled power save and restarted them over the last three weeks and none have returned to their poor performing state since.


That's great! However that fix isn't universal, I clear NVRAM reset and double check my power save mode biweekly and I get a temporary speed boost but it goes back to the same issue. At this point we know a few things for certain. Some receivers are affected but not all of them, some users notice it but some not at all, all HR units are running the same software which marked for many the beginning of the issues and for some compounded problems already present.

As far as hardware goes though the receivers that were built some time ago used components by today's standards are slow or limited in function. The expectation however is that these units will trudge along until their eventual malfunction. I suppose part of the confusion here is that we are discussing two different topics. The slowness problem and the issue of hardware that is aging into obsolescence. The OP did make very wide and sweeping allegation and forum members joined in on two raw nerve topics.

In any-event you make a good point that the problem is not specific to the hardware (though through my experience it does play a factor).


----------



## TomK

Richierich said:


> Have you tried my Workaround?
> 
> I Hit the Guide Button and then Enter the Channel Number (which is this Mode comes up fast as it normally should) and then Hit the Enter Button and then Hit the Exit Button.
> 
> It works even though it does take more keystrokes.
> 
> Or Hit the Info Button, Enter the Channel Number and then Hit the Exit Button.


After some quick testing I *think* pressing the 'Info' button and then entering the channel number that I want seems to be quite a bit more responsive.

Thanks RichieRich!


----------



## RACJ2

I've been traveling, but back home again and able to check responsiveness of my HR22 and HR34. I know Bama guy isn't going to believe this, but both of my DVR's are responding as good or better then ever on the HD GUI. 

My HR22 is a bit slow to bring up the menu or guide, about 3 to 4 seconds. My HR34 brings them up almost immediately. When keying in channel numbers on either DVR, the only issue is when I'm on a channel with score guide. If you change channels and immediately try to enter another channel #, it doesn't respond or misses key strokes. If I change a channel, hit exit to disable score guide, it recognizes all numbers I enter and is quick. On channels w/o score guide, both DVR's are recognizing channel numbers and responding quickly.


----------



## Shades228

When things change people percieve things differently. For instance before with the blue UI it would pull the guide up almost instantly but it could take 4-5 seconds before a keystroke was recognized. Now it takes 4-5 seconds for the guide screen to pop up but there isn't a delay when entering numbers once it's loaded. 

Most people didn't have the old UI and new UI side by side to see so it's just a perception issue. Now I'm not saying that there isn't room for improvement or that there aren't some issues that people are having but overall for doing what I do the HD UI is still faster than the blue UI overall.


----------



## raott

"Shades228" said:


> When things change people percieve things differently. For instance before with the blue UI it would pull the guide up almost instantly but it could take 4-5 seconds before a keystroke was recognized. Now it takes 4-5 seconds for the guide screen to pop up but there isn't a delay when entering numbers once it's loaded.
> 
> Most people didn't have the old UI and new UI side by side to see so it's just a perception issue. Now I'm not saying that there isn't room for improvement or that there aren't some issues that people are having but overall for doing what I do the HD UI is still faster than the blue UI overall.


The issues are not a "perception issue".


----------



## luckydob

"Richierich" said:


> Have you tried my Workaround?
> 
> I Hit the Guide Button and then Enter the Channel Number (which is this Mode comes up fast as it normally should) and then Hit the Enter Button and then Hit the Exit Button.
> 
> It works even though it does take more keystrokes.
> 
> Or Hit the Info Button, Enter the Channel Number and then Hit the Exit Button.


I tried this just now for changing between the Bulls and Blackhawks and it is just as slow. Pulling up the guide is painful...entering channels is a like a root canal...hell hitting exit does nothing for about 5 seconds.

HR20-100


----------



## MikeW

Shades228 said:


> When things change people percieve things differently. For instance before with the blue UI it would pull the guide up almost instantly but it could take 4-5 seconds before a keystroke was recognized. Now it takes 4-5 seconds for the guide screen to pop up but there isn't a delay when entering numbers once it's loaded.
> 
> Most people didn't have the old UI and new UI side by side to see so it's just a perception issue. Now I'm not saying that there isn't room for improvement or that there aren't some issues that people are having but overall for doing what I do the HD UI is still faster than the blue UI overall.


I have seen times when it could take over a minute from the time I pressed list, highlight a show, request it to play and have it actually start. If you experienced the slowness that some have seen, you would know it is nothing like the slowness seen in the past.


----------



## jester7677

luckydob said:


> I tried this just now for changing between the Bulls and Blackhawks and it is just as slow. Pulling up the guide is painful...entering channels is a like a root canal...hell hitting exit does nothing for about 5 seconds.
> 
> HR20-100


Lucky, I have a HR20-100 as well as other HD receivers. On all of them, not only is the guide, menus, manipulating recorded shows and entering numbers slow, but programs will stutter too. I think the unit and the HDD are just trying to do too much. Keeping 20% free, rebooting and keeping one tuner on a music channel seem to help at least the stuttering, but....

These issues should be enough for new subscribers to stay away. I am a hair from jumping ship. I went with DTV for the picture quality on my 70", and have been with them for about 8 years, but if it works like a 286, why bother.


----------



## Mike Greer

Hoosier205 said:


> When did someone say you or anyone else had made it up? I don't believe you are be dishonest at all.


Maybe not you in particular did not call me a liar or dreamer... Generally the way it works is people post about trouble and many people either imply the problem is not the software or directly say "My receivers are fine so you must have something else going on in your setup".

This thread has kind of gone back and forth but the bottom line is that most logically minded people are going to come to the conclusion that the NR update that included the HD GUI caused a lot of issues to either reappear on older receivers that had recently improved or to appear for the first time on new receivers like the HR24s. Not on all of them but certainly a good number of them from the posts here.

DirecTV is not going to acknowledge the trouble publicly - just call and ask. I wouldn't expect them to. I do expect them to fix the trouble - I had hoped they would have corrected the trouble sooner but let's hope they correct it 'soon'.


----------



## Mike Greer

BattleScott said:


> Just to add my experience:
> My hr22 was terrible before the update, after it is still terrible. Keystrokes are still ignored, delayed or multiplied. Guide scrolling is still poor. Channel changes are still very slow. It was never anywhere near ok prior to the update. Since it is in the bedroom, it's not a big deal.
> 
> The Hr24 is the big issue. Before the update, it was very consistent. No remote response issues, guide scrolling was consistent and quick. Channel changes were the normal 4-5 secs to complete. Now, the operation is far more intermittent (not at the level of the 22, but still disappointing) with long lags when scrolling, frequent 20-30 sec channel change delays and slow remote responses.


This is exactly my experience also!


----------



## Mike Greer

Richierich said:


> And what Amazes and Puzzles me is that all 5 of my HR24-500s are Fast and I have No Problem whatsoever with them other than Channel Changing is Slow due to the HDMI Handshake.
> 
> That is what I don't understand unless it is something in your Environment that could be causing the problem.


Unless a bunch of us had squirrels chew on cables, lnbs fail, switches fail or combinations of these all at the same time as the last NR firmware update the trouble is with the firmware.

Could there be more too it? Certainly. Maybe the trouble only shows up if you have HR22s on in your MRV network. Maybe it only comes up if you have 2 HR22s on your network. Maybe it only shows up if you have a certain model of router or modem.

Who knows why it didn't nail everyone but it just can't be that so many had 'other' changes at the same time as they received the update.


----------



## BattleScott

Mike Greer said:


> Unless a bunch of us had squirrels chew on cables, lnbs fail, switches fail or combinations of these all at the same time as the last NR firmware update the trouble is with the firmware.
> 
> Could there be more too it? Certainly. Maybe the trouble only shows up if you have HR22s on in your MRV network. Maybe it only comes up if you have 2 HR22s on your network. Maybe it only shows up if you have a certain model of router or modem.
> 
> Who knows why it didn't nail everyone but it just can't be that so many had 'other' changes at the same time as they received the update.


Though they may not now, or ever publicy acknowledge the issue(s), I think they are well aware of them. When a board mod creates a specific poll on the topic, that is usually a pretty good sign they are watching the issue. Given the results of the poll, I don't see how they can ignore it.


----------



## billsharpe

raott said:


> It was a sarcastic post and you would need to review the prior posts to get the context.


Sorry about that. There are over 300 posts in this thread...


----------



## Rich

MikeW said:


> I disagree with the notion that the problem is aging hardware. If that were the case, why would the HR24s slow down as well?+


Because of the HD GUI?

Rich


----------



## Rich

Shades228 said:


> When things change people percieve things differently. For instance before with the blue UI it would pull the guide up almost instantly but it could take 4-5 seconds before a keystroke was recognized. Now it takes 4-5 seconds for the guide screen to pop up but there isn't a delay when entering numbers once it's loaded.
> 
> Most people didn't have the old UI and new UI side by side to see so it's just a perception issue. Now I'm not saying that there isn't room for improvement or that there aren't some issues that people are having but overall for doing what I do the HD UI is still faster than the blue UI overall.


I had them side by side and the difference in various usages in the new HD GUI was easily seen. My 24s got them later on. All eight 20-700s now act just as the three 24s do, with the 24s being, as usual, a bit quicker.

But the only things that have been affected adversely have been things like deleting a lot of episodes of a program at once, going to a different HR on MRV, stuff like that. No problems with trick-play or the normal DVR actions.

Rich


----------



## MikeW

Rich said:


> Because of the HD GUI?
> 
> Rich


No. Just saying...I have 3 HR20-700s that are performing just fine right now. They are about as old as you can get. The HR21 has always been probelmatic, but it is acceptable right now.


----------



## Rich

MikeW said:


> No. Just saying...I have 3 HR20-700s that are performing just fine right now. They are about as old as you can get. The HR21 has always been probelmatic, but it is acceptable right now.


I've got eight 20-700s and they all have the same problems as the 24s, the 24s are just a bit quicker. Again, this is only when using certain actions on the HD GUI. The rest of the time both models are as fast or faster than ever.

Rich


----------



## Richierich

Rich said:


> I've got eight 20-700s and they all have the same problems as the 24s, the 24s are just a bit quicker. Again, this is only when using certain actions on the HD GUI. The rest of the time both models are as fast or faster than ever.
> Rich


And I have 5 HR24-500s that work Fast and are Great so either I am Lucky or it is because I Replaced my Hard Drives with a Better WD20EADS Drive that works Better with the New Software or I don't use Apps or DoublePlay but mine are lightning Fast and my Guide comes up in about 2 seconds (I just tried it).

If it was just Software then all HR24s would experience Problems or the Chipset in them is different and the code affects them differently.


----------



## Rob77

Most people do not have 5 new HR24-500's
Just did a test .... and my channel channing time is at an average of 45 sec to one minute.
I wish the fanboys would stop saying there is not a problem.
Clear and simple....most people DO have a problem


----------



## Richierich

Rob77 said:


> Most people do not have 5 new HR24-500's
> Just did a test .... and my channel channing time is at an average of 45 sec to one minute.
> I wish the fanboys would stop saying there is not a problem.
> Clear and simple....most people DO have a problem


No you are Correct, Most People Do Not Have 5 HR24-500s but my point was that All 5 Work Fast and I will give you $1000 if you come here to my house and you can view my HR24s and deny that my 5 HR24-500s work Fast.

I am Not a Directv Fanboy perse as I have criticized them a lot but I am just curious why I don't have these problems and I know for sure that many do experience these problems but there has to be a reason why I don't and many do experience problems.

I also do not agree that Most People Experience these problems particularly those like me who have HR24-500s.

I am No More Delusional than you are but I don't Experience those Problems with any of my 5 HR24-500s and I am Puzzled why others are Experiencing these Issues and by no means and I saying that you are Not Experiencing These Problems just not me.

However, all of mine have had their Internal Hard Drives Replaced with WD20EADS Hard Drives so maybe that makes a difference I don't know.


----------



## sigma1914

Rob77 said:


> Most people do not have 5 new HR24-500's
> Just did a test .... and my channel channing time is at an average of 45 sec to one minute.
> I wish the fanboys would stop saying there is not a problem.
> Clear and simple....most people DO have a problem


I wish people would stop exaggerating channel changing times. Take youtube videos. Film 5-7 consecutive channel changes in a row...meaning no break in film.


----------



## 242424




----------



## Hoosier205

"Rob77" said:


> Most people do not have 5 new HR24-500's
> Just did a test .... and my channel channing time is at an average of 45 sec to one minute.
> I wish the fanboys would stop saying there is not a problem.
> Clear and simple....most people DO have a problem


Most people? How do you know that?


----------



## Mike Bertelson

Rob77 said:


> Most people do not have 5 new HR24-500's
> Just did a test .... and my channel channing time is at an average of 45 sec to one minute.
> I wish the fanboys would stop saying there is not a problem.
> Clear and simple....most people DO have a problem


Wow. That's a long time. Even my HR22 doesn't take longer that 5-10 seconds. There's something wrong it takes that long. :scratchin

Mike


----------



## Richierich

Mike Bertelson said:


> Wow. That's a long time. Even my HR22 doesn't take longer that 5-10 seconds. There's something wrong it takes that long. :scratchin
> Mike


Yes, I Agree.

My 2 HR23-700s are Slower but I just did a Test and it took 4 Seconds to bring up the Guide so you need to Replace your DVR as it probably has a Bad Hard Drive or something is wrong in your Environment.


----------



## bobcamp1

sigma1914 said:


> I wish people would stop exaggerating channel changing times. Take youtube videos. Film 5-7 consecutive channel changes in a row...meaning no break in film.


I don't believe that they are. Saying they are exaggerating is quite disrespectful. I think everyone can tell if something takes longer than 10 seconds. If a channel change takes over that amount of time, it is too long.

Just before I suspended my HR24 service, exactly four days after it got the HD GUI upgrade, I noticed a definite slowdown in some tasks. It took over 10 seconds (probably 14 seconds) between the time I pressed "List" and the time the list actually came up. Ten of those seconds were timed using an actual watch. The other four were in the beginning where I thought, "it's taking too long again, I'll time it." Using the SD GUI, the list never took more than five seconds to come up.

Once the HR24 "warmed up", I could tell navigation within the list and guide was faster. Maybe 500 msec quicker for each keypress.

My H24 was even worse. It used to be very fast, but after the GUI it took over 3 seconds to respond to each remote key press. That was using the "one one thousand, two one thousand, three one thousand" technique.

Maybe I'll post YouTube videos of how fast my FIOS DVR navigates. I'll have to get my remote and TV in the same shot, because most D* subscribers won't believe how fast it is.


----------



## sigma1914

bobcamp1 said:


> I don't believe that they are. Saying they are exaggerating is quite disrespectful. I think everyone can tell if something takes longer than 10 seconds. If a channel change takes over that amount of time, it is too long.
> ...
> Maybe I'll post YouTube videos of how fast my FIOS DVR navigates. I'll have to get my remote and TV in the same shot, because most D* subscribers won't believe how fast it is.


The poster said, "channel channing time is at an average of 45 sec to one minute." That's not exaggerating?? Average? Right. 

I know how fast Fios is & I don't care because they're not coming here. It's also completely different technology.


----------



## DawgLink

sigma1914 said:


> I wish people would stop exaggerating channel changing times. Take youtube videos. Film 5-7 consecutive channel changes in a row...meaning no break in film.


I wish the channel changing times were actually quicker

Though some may be over-exaggerating, most if not all that I see here and elsewhere have the same lag times as me.


----------



## master doggy

I have the DirecTV HR21-100 and HR22-100 model receivers and I am also having severe lag issues with the menu and channel changing. There has always been a 4-5 second delay before the HD GUI update, but now it sometimes can take up to 20 seconds to change a channel. My wife is pulling her hair out and is ready to switch to cable or Dish Network. Hopefully DirecTV fix these receiver issues soon. BTW, I've tried the 963 Channel down method to speed up the menu and it doesn't work anymore.


----------



## EntropyByDesign

I'm having similar problems. Started with Directv last August and I have the HR24-500 and the H25-500 installed by Directv. Both worked smoothly out of the box and I had no problems. Our recorded shows typically never reach 20% capacity (80% remaining as shown on the List screen).

The problems started right after we received the new HD GUI a few months ago. There are typically severe slowdowns in response to the remote, and it locks up frequently. I timed a lockup at 2 minutes once in respond to pushing the Guide button. This did not occur once prior to the new GUI.

There is nothing strange about our setup and nothing has changed since the initial install except the HD GUI. I am 100% confident that it's the problem. Directv does not give a crap and I am stuck with these until they fail completely or my contract ends. Big fail.


----------



## BattleScott

Hoosier205 said:


> Most people? How do you know that?


The current poll results show over 70% of responders (of a pretty decent sample size) indicate they are experiencing sluggish performance since the upgrade.


----------



## BattleScott

Richierich said:


> However, all of mine have had their Internal Hard Drives Replaced with WD20EADS Hard Drives so maybe that makes a difference I don't know.


Any way you could disconnect the ext drive on one (or 2) of them for a few weeks and see if there is any difference? Would be a very useful clue I would think it turns out it does?

Does the eSata interface use an extrenal controller on the drive like the USBs?


----------



## Rich

Richierich said:


> And I have 5 HR24-500s that work Fast and are Great so either I am Lucky or it is because I Replaced my Hard Drives with a Better WD20EADS Drive that works Better with the New Software or I don't use Apps or DoublePlay but mine are lightning Fast and my Guide comes up in about 2 seconds (I just tried it).


All my owned HRs (six) have 2TBs in them and all but one of my leased HRs have 2TBs on them and I see the same things on each one.



> If it was just Software then all HR24s would experience Problems or the Chipset in them is different and the code affects them differently.


I dunno, all three of my 24s behave in the same manner when it comes to using the NR's HD GUI. But, wait a minute, you're not using *that* HD GUI are you? Sneaky Devil!!!.....:lol:

Rich


----------



## wahooq

> The current poll results show over 70% of responders (of a pretty decent sample size) indicate they are experiencing sluggish performance since the upgrade.


not really when put inot prospective....Total poll respondants 1020 & 750 or so reported issues DTV North American subsciber base is right around 20,000,000...that means only .00375% are reporting issues


----------



## Mike Greer

wahooq said:


> not really when put inot prospective....Total poll respondants 1020 & 750 or so reported issues DTV North American subsciber base is right around 20,000,000...that means only .00375% are reporting issues


Using that logic even fewer than .00375% 'are working as expected'.


----------



## tko

wahooq said:


> not really when put inot prospective....Total poll respondants 1020 & 750 or so reported issues DTV North American subsciber base is right around 20,000,000...that means only .00375% are reporting issues


This thread is getting ridiculous for group of human beings that say D* is the cadillac of tv providers. If only the members of this forum could have the same class. Exactly what is false in this statement from BattleScott? He is stating the facts exactly as shown by the poll! Get a life people!!!!



> The current poll results show over 70% of responders (of a pretty decent sample size) indicate they are experiencing sluggish performance since the upgrade.


----------



## Mike Greer

Richierich said:


> If it was just Software then all HR24s would experience Problems....


Nope. Unless you can believe that everyone that now has trouble (since the last NR) all had something other than the software change... At the same time they received the NR download.

Some how I think it is more likely that aliens are to blame than something other than software 'update' causing the trouble.

Do you have any suggestions of what could have happened to cause this? Remember the big troubles started as people received the HDGUI NR. And we didn't get it all the same night....


----------



## wahooq

> Exactly what is false in this statement from BattleScott? He is stating the facts exactly as shown by the poll! Get a life people!!!!


I didnt say anything was false....70% of 1020 people is roughly 750 ish...was just saying in the big picture that is a very minute number of issues...I could take it further and say that most DTV subscribers have an average of 4 receivers in their homes...that equals 80,000,000 receivers of which .0009375% are having issues....its not me its math....


----------



## lparsons21

wahooq said:


> I didnt say anything was false....70% of 1020 people is roughly 750 ish...was just saying in the big picture that is a very minute number of issues...I could take it further and say that most DTV subscribers have an average of 4 receivers in their homes...that equals 80,000,000 receivers of which .0009375% are having issues....its not me its math....


LOL! Yeah, it is math. And while the poll wasn't scientific, the results show that most people that actually care about this kind of stuff found D* wanting in the speed department.

Since it wasn't a scientific poll, we can't know the accuracy of the poll for sure, but to try to make it appear to be a non-problem is just another way to wave the old D* pom-poms!


----------



## wahooq

> Since it wasn't a scientific poll, we can't know the accuracy of the poll for sure, but to try to make it appear to be a non-problem is just another way to wave the old D* pom-poms!


Not waving pomsd poms ...far from it I am just pointing out the fact that this issue...while yes it IS an issue is not as widespread as some people are making it to be. Most times this issue is a result of other things that can be fixed...whenj they arent then yes the rcvrs should be changed out....Personally if it was was me i would find a product I apporove of and am happy with as opposed to sitting around griping about....just sayin


----------



## Mike Greer

wahooq said:


> I didnt say anything was false....70% of 1020 people is roughly 750 ish...was just saying in the big picture that is a very minute number of issues...I could take it further and say that most DTV subscribers have an average of 4 receivers in their homes...that equals 80,000,000 receivers of which .0009375% are having issues....its not me its math....


That's very creative math. Do you work for the government by chance?


----------



## hasan

wahooq said:


> Personally if it was was me i would find a product I apporove of and am happy with as opposed to sitting around griping about....just sayin


Many of these people feel they have paid good money and should receive properly functioning equipment for it. Are they supposed to pay an ETF, just because D* can't seem to solve the speed issue (actually sluggishness periodically, more accurately describes my experience)?

From my personal experience, D*'s equipment (non-24 series) performance has gone down hill steadily for quite some time. There was a time when the HR20-700 was quite snappy, and rarely if ever slowed down. That was over a year and a half ago, and it's only gotten worse since.

Were there a reasonable alternative, I'd vote with my pocketbook. There isn't (only alternative is Dish, and while their equipment may perform better, I don't like their video quality, among other things).

So, I'm lacking a bit of enthusiasm these days. I don't post a lot of gripes, because it's very apparent that nothing is likely to change. I will go on record saying that I am no longer happy with the HR series performance (short of the HR24), and I sympathize with those who are less than happy, however vocal they may be.

Early on, I went through the "HR xxx is a POS wars". I found the assertions hyperbolic. I was one of the staunchest defenders of the equipment that I used. I can't muster that kind of defense any more. It just no longer accurately reflects my experience.

While I haven't fallen to the POS acronym, the performance is pretty spotty, and not what I expect for what I pay.

YMMV.


----------



## wahooq

> That's very creative math. Do you work for the government by chance?


in what way is that creative? I'm using numbers supplied by these people

@hasan....true never said there were no issues...just that they aren't widespread as some peeps are saying


----------



## skyboysea

wahooq said:


> in what way is that creative? I'm using numbers supplied by these people


Let me explain how statistics works: you take a small sample of the population and based on the answer of that sample you derive what the whole population thinks.

If 70% of the people who answer the poll says that they have problem, it might mean that as many as 14M Directv customers (or 56M receiver to use your numbers) have issues. The poll is not scientific and therefore that number is likely bogus.

Your calculation assume that every Direct customer with a problem, and only them, took the poll and that only ~700 people have issues, obviously this cannot be true since not all customers are members of this forum.


----------



## BattleScott

wahooq said:


> in what way is that creative? I'm using numbers supplied by these people
> 
> @hasan....true never said there were no issues...just that they aren't widespread as some peeps are saying


Because for your analysis to be valid, it would require that ALL subscribers participated in the poll. Since only a small fraction of them are registered users, they obviously cannot.

That is where the sample size and margin of error come into play. With a high percentage like 70%, the margin of error becomes relatively low, so it is rational to conclude a similar percentage of the overall users are experiencing the same sluggishness.


----------



## wahooq

the thing you dudes are missing is that it wasn't 70% of DTV subscribers....but 70% of people that answered the poll....


> Let me explain how statistics works:


 if your going to claim to tell how statistics works then you should be ashamed of yourself if you think this is a good sample with good statistical power


----------



## Barcthespark

wahooq said:


> the thing you dudes are missing is that it wasn't 70% of DTV subscribers....but 70% of people that answered the poll.... if your going to claim to tell how statistics works then you should be ashamed of yourself if you think this is a good sample with good statistical power


Is there another poll out there that should be used? Do you have better stats?


----------



## Mike Greer

wahooq said:


> in what way is that creative? I'm using numbers supplied by these people
> 
> @hasan....true never said there were no issues...just that they aren't widespread as some peeps are saying


You're incorrectly using numbers supplied by these people.

Who knows how widespread these problems are? Maybe you have some inside info you'd like to share? If not - the poll here is the only indication we have and according to it more people have problems than don't. Simple as that.


----------



## raott

wahooq said:


> the thing you dudes are missing is that it wasn't 70% of DTV subscribers....but 70% of people that answered the poll.... if your going to claim to tell how statistics works then you should be ashamed of yourself if you think this is a good sample with good statistical power


What sample size should be used? Have you seen other surveys that indicate different?

What I know, is that at my house, the survey says 100% of the people think that 100% of the DVRs are too slow.

Can you give me a reason that a mod would be prompted to make a survey on this site (the survey you are quick to dismiss)?


----------



## Inkosaurus

wahooq said:


> the thing you dudes are missing is that it wasn't 70% of DTV subscribers....but 70% of people that answered the poll.... if your going to claim to tell how statistics works then you should be ashamed of yourself if you think this is a good sample with good statistical power


Wow... you really dont understand how statistics work do you?
Im not going to bother to repeat whats already been said by a few other posters here, but they got it right and understand how it works, you obviously dont.



> That's very creative math. Do you work for the government by chance?


Judging by his signature i would venture a guess and say he works for D*, employees of both D* and E* and most other companies are required to put that disclaimer somewhere in there postings so they dont get "****canned".

Having worked for both companies in the past i can absolutely sympathize with all of you who experience these issues, i recall a time not to long ago when alot of these receivers were recommended. And now they have spotty performance at best, its really sad. 
D* really needs to get on the ball =/


----------



## Rich

wahooq said:


> not really when put inot prospective....Total poll respondants 1020 & 750 or so reported issues DTV North American subsciber base is right around 20,000,000...that means only .00375% are reporting issues


I don't think you can use statistics like that. That's not how polls work.

Rich


----------



## Rich

skyboysea said:


> Let me explain how statistics works: you take a small sample of the population and based on the answer of that sample you derive what the whole population thinks.
> 
> If 70% of the people who answer the poll says that they have problem, it might mean that as many as 14M Directv customers (or 56M receiver to use your numbers) have issues. The poll is not scientific and therefore that number is likely bogus.
> 
> Your calculation assume that every Direct customer with a problem, and only them, took the poll and that only ~700 people have issues, obviously this cannot be true since not all customers are members of this forum.


Pure logic, beautiful. Couldn't agree more.

Rich


----------



## Rich

wahooq said:


> the thing you dudes are missing is that it wasn't 70% of DTV subscribers....but 70% of people that answered the poll.... if your going to claim to tell how statistics works then you should be ashamed of yourself if you think this is a good sample with good statistical power


It's a good sample, probably could be considered "scientific" or at least "valid" by anyone who understands simple math.

Rich


----------



## RACJ2

It's a good sample of the DBSTalk subscribers, but I'm afraid we are not the norm. How many subscribers do you think have 12 DVRs? And 2TB hard drives hanging off of them? And are using WHDVR across all of them? There are definitely some unique setups from the group of techno geeks that are regulars on this forum. 

With that said, it does sound like there are issues with HD GUI for quite a few folks. Speed on my HR22 with SD GUI varied, painfully slow at times and flying along at other times. Ironically, with the latest release of the HDGUI, it is performing better then I ever remember. And according to some, this is the worst DVR model of the bunch. My biggest issue now is when using my Harmony remote, it doubles up on the key strokes. And I hope the soon to be released update to "fix" sluggishness, doesn't cause mine to slow down.


----------



## makaiguy

It would not be illogical to assume that people that DO have problems are more likely to come here to DBSTalk seeking help than those who are not experiencing problems, and thus are not seeking help. The potential universe of responders to such a survey, then, is likely skewed toward those who are having problems. And even of those who do come here to DBSTalk, I'd expect people experiencing problems are more likely to bother replying to the survey than those without problems. Thus I think the results are double-biased toward reporting of problems and therefore give an inflated image of the extent of the problems.

Don't take any of this to mean there are no problems out there, but only that the percentage of people experiencing problems is likely less than those poll results seem to reflect.


----------



## Rich

RACJ2 said:


> *It's a good sample of the DBSTalk subscribers, but I'm afraid we are not the norm*. How many subscribers do you think have 12 DVRs? And 2TB hard drives hanging off of them? And are using WHDVR across all of them? There are definitely some unique setups from the group of techno geeks that are regulars on this forum.
> 
> With that said, it does sound like there are issues with HD GUI for quite a few folks. Speed on my HR22 with SD GUI varied, painfully slow at times and flying along at other times. Ironically, with the latest release of the HDGUI, it is performing better then I ever remember. And according to some, this is the worst DVR model of the bunch. My biggest issue now is when using my Harmony remote, it doubles up on the key strokes. And I hope the soon to be released update to "fix" sluggishness, doesn't cause mine to slow down.


Yeah, you're right, but aren't we more likely to notice these issues and try to deal with them than folks who have little experience with the HRs? We know what they can do when running properly and see things that are wrong immediately. And, isn't D* more likely to listen to us than the "general public"?

Rich


----------



## SDimwit

"makaiguy" said:


> It would not be illogical to assume that people that DO have problems are more likely to come here to DBSTalk seeking help than those who are not experiencing problems, and thus are not seeking help. The potential universe of responders to such a survey, then, is likely skewed toward those who are having problems. And even of those who do come here to DBSTalk, I'd expect people experiencing problems are more likely to bother replying to the survey than those without problems. Thus I think the results are double-biased toward reporting of problems and therefore give an inflated image of the extent of the problems.
> 
> Don't take any of this to mean there are no problems out there, but only that the percentage of people experiencing problems is likely less than those poll results seem to reflect.


The only issue I have with this thought is... Just because someone doesn't notice an issue, or is willing to put up with it if they do notice it, doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist.


----------



## skyboysea

wahooq said:


> the thing you dudes are missing is that it wasn't 70% of DTV subscribers....but 70% of people that answered the poll.... if your going to claim to tell how statistics works then you should be ashamed of yourself if you think this is a good sample with good statistical power


Obviously you missed the "The poll is not scientific and therefore that number is likely bogus. " part.

The people who answered the poll are a not random sample of Directv subscribers. Still a sample even if not usable to deduct the behavior of the general population of subscribers.


----------



## RACJ2

Rich said:


> Yeah, you're right, but aren't we more likely to notice these issues and try to deal with them than folks who have little experience with the HRs? We know what they can do when running properly and see things that are wrong immediately. And, isn't D* more likely to listen to us than the "general public"?
> 
> Rich


Very true, I just meant that we may push the DVR's to the max, more than the average user. And maybe certain configurations may be contributing to the issues. For instance, I know that if I have multiple recording running on my HR's, they seem to be slower to respond.


----------



## BattleScott

makaiguy said:


> It would not be illogical to assume that people that DO have problems are more likely to come here to DBSTalk seeking help than those who are not experiencing problems, and thus are not seeking help. The potential universe of responders to such a survey, then, is likely skewed toward those who are having problems. And even of those who do come here to DBSTalk, I'd expect people experiencing problems are more likely to bother replying to the survey than those without problems. Thus I think the results are double-biased toward reporting of problems and therefore give an inflated image of the extent of the problems.
> 
> Don't take any of this to mean there are no problems out there, but only that the percentage of people experiencing problems is likely less than those poll results seem to reflect.


While there is certainly a great deal of truth to that, the fact that users are required to register with the site and get a valid user account before voting in polls would disuade the overwhelming majority of random "help seekers". Since the poll was in the general DirecTV forum space and not in any specific hardware forum, I think it is pretty safe to classify the respondant base as the average DBSTalk user.

Are the users experiencing issues more likely to vote in a Yes/No poll? Sure, to a certain extent, but not at a level that would reduce 70% to a number that should be dismissed as "OK"...


----------



## Hoosier205

The poll is meaningless, so I'm not sure how much the debate matters. It is an accurate reading of those who took part in the poll, but not of ordinary customers.


----------



## Davenlr

Hoosier205 said:


> The poll is meaningless


Any post that doesnt praise DirecTv is meaningless isnt it? My parents (who didnt vote in the poll) called me when they got the HDGUI on their HR20, and HR21 and asked me to come over to "FIX" it, because they couldnt get direct channel entry to work anymore, dropped numbers, delayed entry, and guide access time was so slow they hit the button on the remote 2 or 3 times, thinking the first 1 or 2 didnt "take".

I voted in the poll for them.


----------



## Hoosier205

"Davenlr" said:


> Any post that doesnt praise DirecTv is meaningless isnt it? My parents (who didnt vote in the poll) called me when they got the HDGUI on their HR20, and HR21 and asked me to come over to "FIX" it, because they couldnt get direct channel entry to work anymore, dropped numbers, delayed entry, and guide access time was so slow they hit the button on the remote 2 or 3 times, thinking the first 1 or 2 didnt "take".
> 
> I voted in the poll for them.


I'm saying the poll doesn't actually serve any purpose beyond a members interest here.


----------



## sigma1914

Davenlr said:


> Any post that doesnt praise DirecTv is meaningless isnt it?


Any poll done here is meaningless for DirecTV no matter the results unless it's about CE or an obvious issue like "Is channel XYZ out?" Or if you want just DBStalk opinions. There's never a poll here that will translate to a cross section of DirecTV...We're far too skewed here.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

That's enough about polls. Discuss DIRECTV'S receiver policies or don't post.

:backtotop

Mike


----------



## Hoosier205

"Mike Bertelson" said:


> That's enough about polls. Discuss HD channels or don't post.
> 
> :backtotop
> 
> Mike


HD channels?


----------



## Mike Bertelson

Hoosier205 said:


> HD channels?


Sorry I meant DIRECTV's receiver policies. I fixed the original post.

:backtotop

Mike


----------



## luckydob

"RACJ2" said:


> Very true, I just meant that we may push the DVR's to the max, more than the average user. And maybe certain configurations may be contributing to the issues. For instance, I know that if I have multiple recording running on my HR's, they seem to be slower to respond.


I have exactly 1 receiver. HR20-100. It flat out sucks since the hd gui release. So much for the power user causing these problems. . They should fix what is going on or at least start upgrading those of us that have had the HR20-100 since the beginning...without cost or two year extension added.


----------



## RACJ2

luckydob said:


> I have exactly 1 receiver. HR20-100. It flat out sucks since the hd gui release. So much for the power user causing these problems. . They should fix what is going on or at least start upgrading those of us that have had the HR20-100 since the beginning...without cost or two year extension added.


If they can't fix the issue, I agree that they should replace old receivers with HR24's. I''m just glad my HR22 is working so good. I got tired about hearing from about how great the HR20's were and that the HR22's were junk. This isn't aimed at you, but those who bragged about the HR20's. Who has the worst receivers now?


----------



## mreposter

My HR23 is a little more sluggish since the HDGUI release, especially the first release. It's mainly a problem when it's been inactive for a couple hours that its slow/unresponsive to the remote, but it gets back on track after a few minutes. 

But if I was experiencing problems on the scale described here I'd be on the horn with Directv demanding or fix or canceling service. Why stick with a service if it's nearly unusable?


----------



## Podkayne

mreposter said:


> My HR23 is a little more sluggish since the HDGUI release, especially the first release. It's mainly a problem when it's been inactive for a couple hours that its slow/unresponsive to the remote, but it gets back on track after a few minutes.
> 
> But if I was experiencing problems on the scale described here I'd be on the horn with Directv demanding or fix or canceling service. Why stick with a service if it's nearly unusable?


I've been with them since Sept. 1994, and past history gives them benefit of the doubt. They've screwed things up before (remember Club 771? I was a charter member...) and have always managed to get them fixed. My HR 20-100 has been brought to its knees since 2/9/12 when they downloaded the redoubtable 0x59e NR, but workarounds for the awful slowness exist. Direct channel entry is facilitated by pressing the INFO - channel # - EXIT sequence. The blue-button miniguide helps a lot here, too. A weekly clearing of the NV RAM and guide helps some. I'm giving them till the end of April at least before I consider going to another provider. I figure if they can't fix it in 90 days or so then it won't get fixed...


----------



## 242424

luckydob said:


> I have exactly 1 receiver. HR20-100. It flat out sucks since the hd gui release. So much for the power user causing these problems. . They should fix what is going on or at least start upgrading those of us that have had the HR20-100 since the beginning...without cost or two year extension added.


Same setup I have and mine sucks too.


----------



## bakerfall

242424 said:


> Same setup I have and mine sucks too.


I have three HR24's which are all fast with the HDUI. I also have an HR22, which has always sucked and continues to. However, my HR20 which always performed well, has become an absolute dog with the HDUI. I agree that there has been a noticeable slow down with the new GUI on that box.


----------



## scottchez

THis helps me a lot, still slower than a Cable or Dish DVR, night and day difference better though, I can live with it


1) did the nvram reset 
2) set power save to off , so its always on
3) turn sound beeps off (those beeps when you cant do something)
4) cleaned up HD, 50% free
5) new remote Bats
6) weekly pull the power cord so it all boots


----------



## CCarncross

Instead of 6, try doing a weekly menu restart instead...


----------



## Richierich

CCarncross said:


> Instead of 6, try doing a weekly menu restart instead...


+1.

Pulling the Power Cord on a DVR and it's Hard Drive is one of the worst things you can do to a Hard Drive. If you want to Prolong the life of your DVR and it's Hard Drive do a Menu Reset which will provide a "Graceful Shutdown" of the Hard Drive which is Easier on the Hard Drive than pulling the Power Plug.


----------



## John Strk

luckydob said:


> I have exactly 1 receiver. HR20-100. It flat out sucks since the hd gui release. So much for the power user causing these problems. . They should fix what is going on or at least start upgrading those of us that have had the HR20-100 since the beginning...without cost or two year extension added.


I'm in the same situation and completely agree. I want the HR24 or a fix to this issue. Since the gui release my HR20-100 is SLOW, reboots on power up (often) and some times won't even turn on unless I reboot it. I'm getting sick of this. I'm not opposed to a 2 year extension but I want a reliable HD DVR!!!


----------



## rainydave

I've been trying to ride out this new release to allow DirecTV the time to fix the issue(s), but it's getting a bit annoying. I have a HR21-100 & HR21-700. Both have spells of being incredibly slow through the menus, guide, etc. The HR21-700 has occasionally exhibited freezing during playback.

I'm in hopes that DirecTV is working on a software patch to correct this glitches. I just wish they'd give us a sign that they understand the issues and are working on them.


----------



## GBFAN

I would just have to ask why there was a need for a "HD GUI". It really doesn't do anything for me.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

GBFAN said:


> I would just have to ask why there was a need for a "HD GUI". It really doesn't do anything for me.


It has been a much asked for feature. It's been on the Wish List for a long time.

It's not gonna be everyone's cup of tea but apparently most people want this feature.

Mike


----------



## Mike Greer

I'd like an HD GUI but was always afraid of what it would to the already underpowered DVRs. What bothers me is many people are have more problems than they already were (I realize it's not everyone) but for what? The biggest change I see is the introduction of more problems... The HD GUI does look better but the extra resolution only improved the look - didn't take advantage of the extra screen real estate and took away DVR controls with PIG and the ability to use all the outputs simultaneously.

Just not worth the extra troubles to me - if they were going to do an HDGUI they should have done it. More crisp text and a different color scheme are just not worth it to me.

Maybe they have bigger plans but I gotta tell ya, that worries me!


----------



## raott

"Mike Bertelson" said:


> It has been a much asked for feature. It's been on the Wish List for a long time.
> 
> It's not gonna be everyone's cup of tea but apparently most people want this feature.
> 
> Mike


I'd bet most people would be assuming it would work correctly rather than the mess we were given.


----------



## RACJ2

I'm sure they migrated to HD GUI to remain competitive and for marketing purposes. Also, keeping them looking fresh might prevent current subscribers from jumping ship after seeing a friends FiOS/Uverse/Dish/Cable HD GUI.


----------



## mnassour

RACJ2 said:


> I'm sure they migrated to HD GUI to remain competitive and for marketing purposes. Also, keeping them looking fresh might prevent current subscribers from jumping ship after seeing a friends FiOS/Uverse/Dish/Cable HD GUI.


Well the mess caused by the HDGUI came within ten minutes of us taking our $95/month to Dish, a move stopped only by a quick thinking tech who offered brand new, speedier, equipment compared to our elderly HR20s.

Fine job, DirecTV. Again. :nono:


----------



## RACJ2

mnassour said:


> Well the mess caused by the HDGUI came within ten minutes of us taking our $95/month to Dish, a move stopped only by a quick thinking tech who offered brand new, speedier, equipment compared to our elderly HR20s.
> 
> Fine job, DirecTV. Again. :nono:


I hear you, but I don't think they expected the performance issue to be this bad. I would have thought that it would have been caught in beta testing. Although I've seen things like this happen at software companies I worked for. Rush it out despite known issue to meet competition, then fix it later.


----------



## Stuart Sweet

Gentlemen and ladies,

We do not under any circumstances discuss the specifics of moderator actions, but...

I am compelled to delete several posts and I have taken disciplinary action. If you don't want the next action to be taken against you, please stop and think before you post. There is a difference between polite disagreement and rudely disparaging someone else's opinion.

I *strongly* suggest that you exercise maturity and judgment as you continue to post in this thread, and anywhere at DBSTalk.com.

Thank you.


----------



## Northicex

I would like to take a moment to post a tidbit I collected. There is an active alert for and HX, HRX units experiencing system slowness. This notice came out recently and as of now internet connected IRDs are being utilized to collect information via the "SENDREPORT" search command. So those of you that are having trouble with slow receivers (my self included) if you could make use of that function engineering will be able to address the problem.

Also I would deem the alert as an acknowledgement of the issue in an official manner.


----------



## mreposter

Thanks for the tip, Northicex

So you do a Search By Keyword, type in SENDREPORT and this gives you the option of sending a diagnostic report to Direct... what information is included in the report?


----------



## thomas_d92

Why is there not a choice to switch to sd for the guide?


----------



## WestDC

thomas_d92 said:


> Why is there not a choice to switch to sd for the guide?


Not the same, You can select to "SHOW ALL CHANNELS" in the Guide - That will show all duplicated SD & HD Channels.


----------



## Scott Kocourek

Northicex said:


> I would like to take a moment to post a tidbit I collected. There is an active alert for and HX, HRX units experiencing system slowness. This notice came out recently and as of now internet connected IRDs are being utilized to collect information via the "SENDREPORT" search command. So those of you that are having trouble with slow receivers (my self included) if you could make use of that function engineering will be able to address the problem.
> 
> Also I would deem the alert as an acknowledgement of the issue in an official manner.





mreposter said:


> Thanks for the tip, Northicex
> 
> So you do a Search By Keyword, type in SENDREPORT and this gives you the option of sending a diagnostic report to Direct... what information is included in the report?


If you are going to use the SENDREPORT feature you should post in the Issues Thread the report number along with a description of the problem you are having. There is no point in sending a report without DIRECTV having a way to know what the problem is.


----------



## harsh

Mike Bertelson said:


> It has been a much asked for feature. It's been on the Wish List for a long time.


I'm convinced that this was driven by the assumption that the guide display would get more cells in it as opposed to simply making the GUI less "cartoonish".


----------



## BattleScott

Northicex said:


> I would like to take a moment to post a tidbit I collected. There is an active alert for and HX, HRX units experiencing system slowness. This notice came out recently and as of now internet connected IRDs are being utilized to collect information via the "SENDREPORT" search command. So those of you that are having trouble with slow receivers (my self included) if you could make use of that function engineering will be able to address the problem.
> 
> Also I would deem the alert as an acknowledgement of the issue in an official manner.


This is great news.


----------



## RACJ2

harsh said:


> I'm convinced that this was driven by the assumption that the guide display would get more cells in it as opposed to simply making the GUI less "cartoonish".


What? Anyway, I believe it was to compete with the glitz of competitors HD GUI.


----------



## BattleScott

RACJ2 said:


> What? Anyway, I believe it was to compete with the glitz of competitors HD GUI.


One of the often mentioned differences when comaring the old SD guide to the competitors, was that the competitors (Verizon seemed to be the front runner) had more data (more channnels and more time) displayed on a single screen. Many were hopefull that the HD version of the DirecTV guide would offer the same improvement.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

harsh said:


> I'm convinced that this was driven by the assumption that the guide display would get more cells in it as opposed to simply making the GUI less "cartoonish".


Interesting take. Why are you convinced of this?

Mike


----------



## Richierich

BattleScott said:


> One of the often mentioned differences when comaring the old SD guide to the competitors, was that the competitors (Verizon seemed to be the front runner) had more data (more channnels and more time) displayed on a single screen. Many were hopefull that the HD version of the DirecTV guide would offer the same improvement.


+1.

I was hoping we would get a Guide List similar to the one on the HR10-250 but it didn't happenly sadly.


----------



## palmgrower

Based on this thread, how long should I expect my 2-HR24-500's & my 2-HR25's last?


----------



## RACJ2

BattleScott said:


> One of the often mentioned differences when comaring the old SD guide to the competitors, was that the competitors (Verizon seemed to be the front runner) had more data (more channnels and more time) displayed on a single screen. Many were hopefull that the HD version of the DirecTV guide would offer the same improvement.


OK, I thought he was talking about some kind of cells for resolution. It would have been nice if the guide on the new UI would have showed 3 hours. That way you can see all the prime time programming at once. I have that on my OTA DVR but its not an up to date looking UI.


----------



## Richierich

palmgrower said:


> Based on this thread, how long should I expect my 2-HR24-500's & my 2-HR25's last?


Based on the Life of Hard Drives they will probably last from 5 to 7 years in my opinion but the Power Supply could die before the Hard Drive dies so unless you can get someone to Replace the Power Supply (if you can find someone who can get the Unit) you will have to get a Replacement.


----------



## Mark L

Just thought I'd throw this little tidbit into the conversation.

I called into DirecTV earlier tonight and was discussing a billing error, when all of a sudden the CSR in retention asked me if I've been having problems with any of my DVRs, as I have 9 boxes on my account, 6 of which are HR2*'s

This is the first time in nearly 10 years that I've ever been asked if any of my boxes were having problems, so that tells me this is a MAJOR issue at DirecTV. 

My HR20s have once again been the most reliable of the bunch, but now my pride and joy HR24-200 is having slowing issues as well. It's very delayed with any command entered on the remote. By far the worse is the HR23-700, the other day it literally was taking 5-10 seconds for any remote command to respond.

I have a decision to make, nearly 10 years with DirecTV and still they cannot engineer a decent HD DVR, I never had any problems with my old Hughes SD-DVR120 DirecTivo unit in the 4+ years I had it activated. My bill is around $175/month with $20 in discounts mind you, it's just becoming a greater expense. The premiere package is now at $120/month, up $20/month in the last 5 years :nono:

I'm out of contract, so after baseball season ends, it might be time for a change.


----------



## Richierich

So a Directv CSR asked you if you had any problems with your DVRs and you said that you were having problems and they didn't offer to Swap any of your DVRs out for you or to offer any Fix???


----------



## jeepwrang3

I called retention about a billing related item last week. In that call, I ended up speaking to the CSR about the delays in my guide/DVR response. I explained that its typically about an 8 second delay in the response. He said that was perfectly normal? If 8 seconds is normal, LOL. He suggested I go and turn native off, remove the scrolling effects. No change, but after nearly 30 minutes on the phone i didnt feel like dealing with it anymore. No offer for new dvrs obvioulsy.


----------



## lparsons21

Richierich said:


> So a Directv CSR asked you if you had any problems with your DVRs and you said that you were having problems and they didn't offer to Swap any of your DVRs out for you or to offer any Fix???


While it might have been a nice gesture for them to offer that, since the problems seem to be on all the HRs, it most likely wouldn't cure anything.


----------



## lparsons21

Mike Bertelson said:


> It has been a much asked for feature. It's been on the Wish List for a long time.
> 
> It's not gonna be everyone's cup of tea but apparently most people want this feature.
> 
> Mike


I think that most expected the HDGUI to be an improvement in performance since that was one of the 'benefits' we kept reading about here. But that didn't happen.

And some of us were hoping that the guide would go to 3 hours instead of the current 1.5 hours. That didn't happen either.

What we got, or let me say what us HR24 guys got, was a slower speed of operation, remote response issues we didn't have before the HDGUI, and essentially the old SDGUI in new clothes with no real benefit.

HDGUI, SDGUI, text list - I don't care as long as it works quickly and pays attention to the remote.

I've said before that I would trade every single TVApp, Pandora and YouTube for a proper operating HR. Time spent making those very trivial things work could have been much better spent on getting the HDGUI right to begin with!


----------



## harsh

Mike Bertelson said:


> Interesting take. Why are you convinced of this?


Because an expanded guide (up to 3 hours) was often mentioned as a likely win when people said they were excited about an updated GUI.

More channels and hours-per-screen is prominent the User Interface Wish List (listed at the top). A little down the list is a text-only listing; presumably to allow for more data.


----------



## Stuart Sweet

lparsons21 said:


> I think that most expected the HDGUI to be an improvement in performance since that was one of the 'benefits' we kept reading about here. But that didn't happen.
> 
> And some of us were hoping that the guide would go to 3 hours instead of the current 1.5 hours. That didn't happen either.
> 
> What we got, or let me say what us HR24 guys got, was a slower speed of operation, remote response issues we didn't have before the HDGUI, and essentially the old SDGUI in new clothes with no real benefit.
> 
> HDGUI, SDGUI, text list - I don't care as long as it works quickly and pays attention to the remote.
> 
> I've said before that I would trade every single TVApp, Pandora and YouTube for a proper operating HR. Time spent making those very trivial things work could have been much better spent on getting the HDGUI right to begin with!


I feel I must rebut.

First of all you do not speak for all HR24 guys. I have three that are as fast as ever. I don't know why that is. All that I am saying is that it is not a universal issue so long as it does not affect everyone.

The same goes with remote response. This is not a universal issue.

More importantly I'll say this again, that TVApps, Pandora, etc. have nothing to do with the core function of the system. Removing them would not speed things up and developing them did not slow things down. Think of them like programs on your computer. If you don't ever run them, they have no effect on your system at all.

I also disagree with the characterization of the HDUI as the same as the SDUI. I, among others, wished for more time in the guide. But overall I like what I see and I think that the primary improvements: My DIRECTV and You Might Like, while unappreciated here, will be a huge success for the millions of DIRECTV customers who just want to watch TV.


----------



## lparsons21

Thanks for the rebuttal. I like good conversation and other viewpoints. And the crux of these issues is the inconsistencies! Why do my 3 HR24s perform as poorly as they do while yours seem to not suffer from that? My install is as simple as can be with all new wiring, LNB and new boxes. We should be seeing the same thing.

And you're right I don't speak for all HR24 users, but my opinions are shared by quite a few and the numbers seem to be growing. Not to mention the shrillness of the posts getting louder.

As to the remote response. Yes, not all are suffering from it. But it is becoming a very much commented issue more and more every day. Not that it is a new issue, it has existed for many years, but it does seem to be growing.

I agree, the TVapps and others don't affect the performance, nor was that my point. The point is that you only have a certain number of programmers and their time could have been much better spent on making the HDGUI work properly and only then, adding in trivial stuff.

As to the My Directv and You Might Like, in conversations with friends and family that have D*, not one has ever mentioned either one. I've even brought them up in conversations and they didn't know what I was talking about. They are all just watching TV, no techies in the crowd. I have looked at both and found them to be nothing of great interest, and just like the other trivial stuff, I'd trade them for some speed and remote response.


----------



## AlanSaysYo

lparsons21 said:


> HDGUI, SDGUI, text list - I don't care as long as it works quickly and pays attention to the remote.


Be careful there... have you seen the Xfinity box interface? YEOW. I don't think it's changed in 10 years, at least not on the boxes I've seen. There's plain looking, and then there's just downright ugly.


----------



## mreposter

Stuart Sweet said:


> IMore importantly I'll say this again, that TVApps, Pandora, etc. have nothing to do with the core function of the system. Removing them would not speed things up and developing them did not slow things down. Think of them like programs on your computer. If you don't ever run them, they have no effect on your system at all.


Two rebuttals:

1. If the developers that wrote these applications had instead been used to work on the core code base would some of these issues been eliminated?

2. Stating that merely having an app on a box has no affect on the operation of the base system may not be correct. If these apps require additional libraries, APIs, or other extensions to the OS, then they could have a direct and immediate impact even if the apps themselves are never launched.

The HDGUI was in beta test for some time, so I'm a bit surprised more of these issues weren't discovered. But often when a deployment goes from a small group to millions you often find things you weren't expecting. I just hope Directv didn't push this out knowing it would cause issues for so many users.


----------



## Ruhnie

Wow I thought I was losing my mind until I saw this thread! I had noticed since the new GUI update that my receivers were insanely slow. I have a good 10s delay on just about any remote command on my DVRs, even just trying to pull up the damn guide. This is pretty maddening. I have tried to read through some of this thread but it is pretty big...what are we to do to try and resolve this at this point? Are we hopeful that there is a software resolution coming? Otherwise, is DISH the best alternative these days? I don't think I can take dealing with these issues any longer.


----------



## Rich

palmgrower said:


> Based on this thread, how long should I expect my 2-HR24-500's & my 2-HR25's last?


If it helps, I have eight 20-700s that all work as they should (discounting the problems with the new GUI) and are all over five years old. Can't say anything about the plain receivers, but the HR24s seem to be as well made as the 20-700s. I'd expect years of service from the 24-500s now that they have them stabilized.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Richierich said:


> So a Directv CSR asked you if you had any problems with your DVRs and you said that you were having problems and they didn't offer to Swap any of your DVRs out for you or to offer any Fix???


Swapping out a DVR because of GUI issues isn't gonna help. I have no doubt that the GUI will be fixed.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Ruhnie said:


> Wow I thought I was losing my mind until I saw this thread! I had noticed since the new GUI update that my receivers were insanely slow. I have a good 10s delay on just about any remote command on my DVRs, even just trying to pull up the damn guide. This is pretty maddening. I have tried to read through some of this thread but it is pretty big...what are we to do to try and resolve this at this point? Are we hopeful that there is a software resolution coming? Otherwise, is DISH the best alternative these days? I don't think I can take dealing with these issues any longer.


Patience and clarity are needed. Yes, they pushed the GUI out before it was ready, but D* has done that before (should we not have learned from the DLB NR?) and fixed the issues.

Clarity? Look at how many posters have complained about the "slowness" of their HRs since the GUI NR. What slowness exactly? I see problems when using the new GUI and I see the same thing on my 21-200 (yeah, it's slow, but it works and makes my granddaughter happy), my eight 20-700s and my three 24s. Aside from the issues with the GUI, I don't see any slowness on my HRs when using trick play or any other commands. I've never had a problem with putting in channel numbers unless I cause those problems myself.

Instead of saying, "My HRs are slow", a detailed description would be of more value.

Rich


----------



## RACJ2

Rich said:


> Patience and clarity are needed. Yes, they pushed the GUI out before it was ready, but D* has done that before (should we not have learned from the DLB NR?) and fixed the issues. ...Instead of saying, "My HRs are slow", a detailed description would be of more value.
> 
> Rich


My HR22 is working better then ever with the latest HD GUI update, so from my perspective the NR fixed the issues that I've been having for years. And I believe Ruhnie described what slowness meant in his particular situation.


Ruhnie said:


> Wow I thought I was losing my mind until I saw this thread! I had noticed since the new GUI update that my receivers were insanely slow. *I have a good 10s delay on just about any remote command on my DVRs, even just trying to pull up the damn guide. *This is pretty maddening. I have tried to read through some of this thread but it is pretty big...what are we to do to try and resolve this at this point? Are we hopeful that there is a software resolution coming? Otherwise, is DISH the best alternative these days? I don't think I can take dealing with these issues any longer.


----------



## Rich

RACJ2 said:


> My HR22 is working better then ever with the latest HD GUI update, so from my perspective the NR fixed the issues that I've been having for years.


My 22-100, brand new replacement, worked extremely well...for a week. Wish you better luck, I do.



> And I believe Ruhnie described what slowness meant in his particular situation.


He did to an extent, but I wasn't referring to posts such as his, just the general "my HRs are slow" or "my HRs don't work right" statements. Statements such as these are difficult to understand and really have little value.

Rich


----------



## RACJ2

Rich said:


> My 22-100, brand new replacement, worked extremely well...for a week. Wish you better luck, I do.
> 
> He did to an extent, but I wasn't referring to posts such as his, just the general "my HRs are slow" or "my HRs don't work right" statements. Statements such as these are difficult to understand and really have little value.
> 
> Rich


Fortunately, its been working well since I received the update on 2/9. So I've already had better luck then you did. As I mentioned, back in the day when you had an HR22 and they were on the SD GUI, my HR22 was hit or miss on how it was going to perform that day. It's never been as bad as what is happening now though. The main issue was trying to enter a channel number. Had to use the mini schedule or info button first or it else it was like Russian roulette.


----------



## yahtzee123

First off, I'd like to thank all the posters here who've shared their knowledge over the years. It's helped me diagnose and fix several things on my own. Unfortunately, I'm seriously considering leaving Directv due the slowness of my three year old HR22. It is just so ... very ... slow. Nothing seems to help -- reboots, clearing nvram, running diagnostic tests (smart short, long, surface), etc.

There's really two types of slowness I'm seeing: lack of response to remote, lag from response of remote to execution of command.

I've observed that you can determine if the DVR has accepted your remote control button press because the blue light will blink off-on. There are many times throughout the day when the DVR will not accept any inputs for 10 to 45 seconds. Good luck trying to change the channel manually to ESPN, you'll most likely end up on channel 2 with an outside chance of getting to 20. Forget about getting all three channel numbers entered in. It should not take minutes to scroll down the list of recorded shows. Also, the press-wait-press-wait-press-wait-press-YAY IT WORKED is getting really old.

The second type of slowness I'm dealing with is when I get the feedback that the DVR has accepted a command (light blinks off-on), but it takes forever to actually execute it. For instance, hitting 'play' on a highlighted show from the recorded lists can take half a minute or more (starting the timer from the time AFTER the DVR finally acknowledges that the 'play' button was pressed). I believe our current record is two minutes 11 seconds. For some reason, it also starts shows 15-30 seconds from the beginning, so then I get to try to rewind.

Anyway, from reading everything here, it doesn't seem like a new DVR is going to actually fix anything. Tonight I'm going to the local cable store to check out their picture quality, gui, and response time. If everything checks out, I'll be leaving to greener pastures after 11 years in the Directv fold. *sigh*

Directv really needs to get this fixed. Good luck to everyone who's having problems.

/end rant


----------



## RACJ2

There goes my theory that the HD GUI fixed the issues with HR22's. So now I'm wondering why my HR22 has been working so well. :scratchin And My HR34 is even faster than my HR22, since the HD GUI download.  Although I'm not complaining.


----------



## fleckrj

AlanSaysYo said:


> Be careful there... have you seen the Xfinity box interface? YEOW. I don't think it's changed in 10 years, at least not on the boxes I've seen. There's plain looking, and then there's just downright ugly.


Ugly is fine with me if it is fully functional. It is not like I watch the interface. The interface is only a tool to get to the functions of the box. Form follows (or at least should follow) function.


----------



## Rich

RACJ2 said:


> Fortunately, its been working well since I received the update on 2/9. So I've already had better luck then you did. As I mentioned, back in the day when you had an HR22 and they were on the SD GUI, my HR22 was hit or miss on how it was going to perform that day. It's never been as bad as what is happening now though. The main issue was trying to enter a channel number. Had to use the mini schedule or info button first or it else it was like Russian roulette.


When I first got the 22, I was amazed at how well it worked. It was just as quick as my 20-700s. I got it before MRV and I was using it on my bottom floor and in the master bedroom using RF remotes and hard wiring. It had no problem with the remote commands from the floor below it, was quick and dependable. By the end of the week, I could stand in front of it and it wouldn't take a remote command. From any remote, in IR or RF. Swapped that for a 23-700, brand new again, and that was bad from get-go. Last 21 series HR I've accepted. My luck.....:nono2:

Rich


----------



## Rich

yahtzee123 said:


> First off, I'd like to thank all the posters here who've shared their knowledge over the years. It's helped me diagnose and fix several things on my own. Unfortunately, I'm seriously considering leaving Directv due the slowness of my three year old HR22. It is just so ... very ... slow. Nothing seems to help -- reboots, clearing nvram, running diagnostic tests (smart short, long, surface), etc.
> 
> There's really two types of slowness I'm seeing: lack of response to remote, lag from response of remote to execution of command.
> 
> I've observed that you can determine if the DVR has accepted your remote control button press because the blue light will blink off-on. There are many times throughout the day when the DVR will not accept any inputs for 10 to 45 seconds. Good luck trying to change the channel manually to ESPN, you'll most likely end up on channel 2 with an outside chance of getting to 20. Forget about getting all three channel numbers entered in. It should not take minutes to scroll down the list of recorded shows. Also, the press-wait-press-wait-press-wait-press-YAY IT WORKED is getting really old.
> 
> The second type of slowness I'm dealing with is when I get the feedback that the DVR has accepted a command (light blinks off-on), but it takes forever to actually execute it. For instance, hitting 'play' on a highlighted show from the recorded lists can take half a minute or more (starting the timer from the time AFTER the DVR finally acknowledges that the 'play' button was pressed). I believe our current record is two minutes 11 seconds. For some reason, it also starts shows 15-30 seconds from the beginning, so then I get to try to rewind.
> 
> Anyway, from reading everything here, it doesn't seem like a new DVR is going to actually fix anything. Tonight I'm going to the local cable store to check out their picture quality, gui, and response time. If everything checks out, I'll be leaving to greener pastures after 11 years in the Directv fold. *sigh*
> 
> Directv really needs to get this fixed. Good luck to everyone who's having problems.
> 
> /end rant


Clarity!!! That's exactly what I was talking about. Good post!

Now, about the patience thing: Find some way to get rid of that 22 and get a 24. You're experiences with one of them will be different. And once the GUI issues get cleared up (and they will), you'll have a much better HR and won't have to settle for cable.

Rich


----------



## jrobcet

I was D* customer from 2007-2011. During that time my only complaint with the service was the slow, laggy, and sometimes non-responsive DVRs. I've recently considered coming back to D* but after browsing here, as well as discussions elsewhere, I'm thinking twice.

Here are my two cents for whatever it's worth: 

It seems there are plenty of folks having these issues across multiple DVRs. Issues that were present back in 2007, and are still there today. I'm not privy to the development process for these DVRs, but it's hard to not make the assumption that D* has some long-standing software and/or hardware development problems. Especially since this has spanned many years across multiple DVRs.

I suppose you could argue this is speculation on my part (it may well be), but either way, I'm somewhat hesitant to become a customer again because of my past bad experience, but even more hesitant when I hear current customers complaining of (continued) problems with slow DVRs.

I've been in the technical customer service field for many years, and have learned that there is always a minority of vocal users who will hold your feet to the fire -- and I think that is great. However, I've also learned that with widespread problems that impact many users there are many who suffer in silence, either because they don't know they are dealing with poor functionality, or because they don't want to deal with it and just hope it gets fixed. It's the latter group of people who are the real worry for any business, because not only do they suffer in silence, they are also likely to go away without communicating why they are leaving.

I like DirecTV and would like to come back, but I refuse to be tied to a contract and know there is the very real possibility I will have to deal with subpar functionality. That's not a good way to get, and keep, customers.


----------



## Mike Greer

My HR22s suck even worse now than they did before the HD GUI!

Those poor kids of mine - I wonder if I can be charged with child abuse by forcing them to use the HR22s?:lol:

I had to restart the HR24-500 that I use the most last night because it was so painful to do anything. I wanted to delete a recording that was 4 lines down the list so I started hitting 'down' --- when the item I wanted to delete was selected (after pausing on the 2nd on the list for couple of seconds) I hit the red button to delete and just as I was going to hit enter I noticed that it had moved one more line down... After pausing on the one I wanted to delete for a second or two... 

I wanted to set up a series recording by hitting (R) button while in the guide... I selected the series in the guide and hit (R) to get the single (R) indicating it would record one episode.... I then hit (R) again to record the series and nothing happened... I waited 3 or 4 seconds and hit (R) again... Nothing happened for another 3 seconds or so... I then saw the multiple (R)s in the guide indicating it would record the series. Then hit the down arrow to go down in the guide and nothing happened... Wait another 2 seconds and the multiple (R)s disappear on the series I wanted and the then I moved down one in the guide. 

What a pain - I'm so happy I pay soooo much for this!

Rich - the above description is what I call 'Slow'.:eek2::lol:

The moral of the story - until DirecTV fixes these things - do everything in S L O W motion or you're going to delete something you wanted to keep or record something you didn't want to record.

I had flash backs of having to use my HR22s - It's like someone took my nice quick HR24-500 and replaced it with a POS HR22! Sure the menus look better but it so not worth the 2 months of pain and suffering!


----------



## sunking

By some peoples logic, car companies should never have a recall until all of the owners crash. Look at your typical recall of hundreds of thousands of cars costing 10s of millions of dollars to fix and you will see most recalls are issued after only a hand full of complaints, often in the single digits.

Now I understand safety is not involved so it's a bit of an apples to oranges. But the core of this thread is that Directv is really dropping the ball in customer service. Be it the HDGUI, failing hardware or remotes, or whatever. On top of it they continue to charge us the monthly 'mirror' fee which for me has more than added up to the cost of replacement equipment. They know they have issues yet refuse to acknowledge it, let alone deal with it.


----------



## DC_SnDvl

I have the exact same issues with my HR21-100. I have 2 HR20-700 refurbs that don't have the problems - just loud hard drives. I have called and they will not replace the HR21.



yahtzee123 said:


> First off, I'd like to thank all the posters here who've shared their knowledge over the years. It's helped me diagnose and fix several things on my own. Unfortunately, I'm seriously considering leaving Directv due the slowness of my three year old HR22. It is just so ... very ... slow. Nothing seems to help -- reboots, clearing nvram, running diagnostic tests (smart short, long, surface), etc.
> 
> There's really two types of slowness I'm seeing: lack of response to remote, lag from response of remote to execution of command.
> 
> I've observed that you can determine if the DVR has accepted your remote control button press because the blue light will blink off-on. There are many times throughout the day when the DVR will not accept any inputs for 10 to 45 seconds. Good luck trying to change the channel manually to ESPN, you'll most likely end up on channel 2 with an outside chance of getting to 20. Forget about getting all three channel numbers entered in. It should not take minutes to scroll down the list of recorded shows. Also, the press-wait-press-wait-press-wait-press-YAY IT WORKED is getting really old.
> 
> The second type of slowness I'm dealing with is when I get the feedback that the DVR has accepted a command (light blinks off-on), but it takes forever to actually execute it. For instance, hitting 'play' on a highlighted show from the recorded lists can take half a minute or more (starting the timer from the time AFTER the DVR finally acknowledges that the 'play' button was pressed). I believe our current record is two minutes 11 seconds. For some reason, it also starts shows 15-30 seconds from the beginning, so then I get to try to rewind.
> 
> Anyway, from reading everything here, it doesn't seem like a new DVR is going to actually fix anything. Tonight I'm going to the local cable store to check out their picture quality, gui, and response time. If everything checks out, I'll be leaving to greener pastures after 11 years in the Directv fold. *sigh*
> 
> Directv really needs to get this fixed. Good luck to everyone who's having problems.
> 
> /end rant


----------



## Rich

Mike Greer said:


> My HR22s suck even worse now than they did before the HD GUI!
> 
> Those poor kids of mine - I wonder if I can be charged with child abuse by forcing them to use the HR22s?:lol:
> 
> I had to restart the HR24-500 that I use the most last night because it was so painful to do anything. I wanted to delete a recording that was 4 lines down the list so I started hitting 'down' --- when the item I wanted to delete was selected (after pausing on the 2nd on the list for couple of seconds) I hit the red button to delete and just as I was going to hit enter I noticed that it had moved one more line down... After pausing on the one I wanted to delete for a second or two...
> 
> I wanted to set up a series recording by hitting (R) button while in the guide... I selected the series in the guide and hit (R) to get the single (R) indicating it would record one episode.... I then hit (R) again to record the series and nothing happened... I waited 3 or 4 seconds and hit (R) again... Nothing happened for another 3 seconds or so... I then saw the multiple (R)s in the guide indicating it would record the series. Then hit the down arrow to go down in the guide and nothing happened... Wait another 2 seconds and the multiple (R)s disappear on the series I wanted and the then I moved down one in the guide.
> 
> What a pain - I'm so happy I pay soooo much for this!
> 
> Rich - the above description is what I call 'Slow'.:eek2::lol:
> 
> The moral of the story - until DirecTV fixes these things - do everything in S L O W motion or you're going to delete something you wanted to keep or record something you didn't want to record.
> 
> I had flash backs of having to use my HR22s - It's like someone took my nice quick HR24-500 and replaced it with a POS HR22! Sure the menus look better but it so not worth the 2 months of pain and suffering!


Good post! Very clear. I'd call that Slow too. The only problem I've ever had with one of my 24-500s sounds like what you experienced with yours. All of a sudden everything became very difficult. Couldn't give it commands with the remote, that sort of thing. Flushed the Guide data by quickly rebooting twice and it's been running fine ever since.

It was so bad before I flushed it I thought the 500 was shot, and flushing the Guide was just a shot in the dark, but it really worked. Haven't had to do it since.

Yes, you could call making your kids use those wonderful 22s of yours child abuse....:lol:

Rich


----------



## Rich

DC_SnDvl said:


> I have the exact same issues with my HR21-100. I have 2 HR20-700 refurbs that don't have the problems - just loud hard drives. I have called and they will not replace the HR21.


Your 21-100 is always gonna be slower than your 20-700s. Not much you can do about that. I'd imagine the CSRs are getting so many calls about issues such as yours that they have scripts in front of them telling them exactly what to say and do. You'd have to escalate to a higher level of CSR to get them to replace your 21-100 and you probably don't have a good enough reason for a replacement according to what they're allowing now.

Rich


----------



## Richierich

Rich said:


> You'd have to escalate to a higher level of CSR to get them to replace your 21-100 and you probably don't have a good enough reason for a replacement according to what they're allowing now.
> Rich


I would Escalate the Problem to the Retention Department and if I wasn't successful there I would go to Ellen Filipiak's Office of Customer Service ([email protected]) as they have been most helpful to me on 2 occasions when I couldn't get relief elsewhere.

She Reports Directly to the President and CEO of Directv and has the Power to make things happen that others apparently do not have the Power to do.


----------



## skyboysea

Stuart Sweet said:


> I feel I must rebut.
> 
> First of all you do not speak for all HR24 guys. I have three that are as fast as ever. I don't know why that is. All that I am saying is that it is not a universal issue so long as it does not affect everyone.
> 
> The same goes with remote response. This is not a universal issue.
> 
> More importantly I'll say this again, that TVApps, Pandora, etc. have nothing to do with the core function of the system. Removing them would not speed things up and developing them did not slow things down. Think of them like programs on your computer. If you don't ever run them, they have no effect on your system at all.
> 
> I also disagree with the characterization of the HDUI as the same as the SDUI. I, among others, wished for more time in the guide. But overall I like what I see and I think that the primary improvements: My DIRECTV and You Might Like, while unappreciated here, will be a huge success for the millions of DIRECTV customers who just want to watch TV.


This reply sounds like it came directly from Directv.

About the "premium features" not slowing down the receiver, unless you have a direct way to prove it, you are just repeating what Direct told you. In reality, those functions do slow the receiver down. If you use the apps once, you have to reboot the receiver to get reed of the slow down. Mediashare and MRV run client and server software all the time and so they must affect the receiver performances.

How can you believe what Directv tells you when this "true" comes out from the same people who says that everything is fine and that their receiver are the best and greatest?


----------



## Richierich

I concur with what he stated in his Post that all 5 of my HR24-500s are Fast and Experience No Problems whatsoever.

However, my 2 HR23-700s are somewhat Sluggish but Not as much as others are Reporting here.

I don't use them on a Daily Basis so it doesn't bother me as they are only there to Record Series Links but it would be Great if Directv gets this Problem Fixed in the next National Release of the Software as I personally know that they are Very Aware of this Problem.


----------



## Mike Greer

Rich said:


> Good post! Very clear. I'd call that Slow too. The only problem I've ever had with one of my 24-500s sounds like what you experienced with yours. All of a sudden everything became very difficult. Couldn't give it commands with the remote, that sort of thing. Flushed the Guide data by quickly rebooting twice and it's been running fine ever since.
> 
> It was so bad before I flushed it I thought the 500 was shot, and flushing the Guide was just a shot in the dark, but it really worked. Haven't had to do it since.
> 
> Yes, you could call making your kids use those wonderful 22s of yours child abuse....:lol:
> 
> Rich


I only restarted once so the guide wasn't flushed... It is back to at least usable for now but not even close to as fast as it was before the last NR.

Those poor kids!


----------



## Mike Greer

Richierich said:


> I would Escalate the Problem to the Retention Department and if I wasn't successful there I would go to Ellen Filipiak's Office of Customer Service ([email protected]) as they have been most helpful to me on 2 occasions when I couldn't get relief elsewhere.
> 
> She Reports Directly to the President and CEO of Directv and has the Power to make things happen that others apparently do not have the Power to do.


Not sure how that would work out. If Ellen's office starts replacing DVRs because of this it would likely cause DirecTV more troubles... First that would be acknowledging there is a problem. Second if someone gets a DVR replaced they'll no doubt post it here and that will cause more and more people to beg for new DVRs. Third - there is a pretty good chance that the 'new' DVR will experience the same troubles thus fixing nothing.

In my humble opinion DirecTV just needs to fix their software and then quit trying to add everything under the sun to already underpowered DVRs.


----------



## alc965

I am the original poster. After explaining to Directv my problems with the receivers, DTV decided to replace my receivers. The ironic part to this story isthat they sent me two non-functioning hr21-200 refurbished receivers. One of the receiver access card did not work and the other receiver would not accept the upgrade. They finally gave me a new HR24-200 receiver. I am keeping my finger crossed. So far no problems with the new receiver


----------



## Rich

Mike Greer said:


> I only restarted once so the guide wasn't flushed... It is back to at least usable for now but not even close to as fast as it was before the last NR.
> 
> Those poor kids!


Try rebooting twice quickly and see if that helps. And get those poor children some decent HRs....:lol:

Rich


----------



## Rich

alc965 said:


> I am the original poster. After explaining to Directv my problems with the receivers, DTV decided to replace my receivers. The ironic part to this story isthat *they sent me two non-functioning hr21-200 refurbished receivers*. One of the receiver access card did not work and the other receiver would not accept the upgrade. They finally gave me a new HR24-200 receiver. I am keeping my finger crossed. So far no problems with the new receiver


Read that phrase in red. You just proved my point about refurbishing by D* being an urban myth. The last step in any rebuild of any machine must be checking to see if it works, no?

You'll like the 200.

Rich


----------



## AlanSaysYo

Mike Greer said:


> I had to restart the HR24-500 that I use the most last night because it was so painful to do anything. I wanted to delete a recording that was 4 lines down the list so I started hitting 'down' --- when the item I wanted to delete was selected (after pausing on the 2nd on the list for couple of seconds) I hit the red button to delete and just as I was going to hit enter I noticed that it had moved one more line down... After pausing on the one I wanted to delete for a second or two...


That's a real punch in the gut. It's happened in my house a few times when we DIDN'T see that it had moved again, and we ended up deleting things we didn't mean to delete. The confirmation button helps, but still, it shouldn't ever happen that way.

Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference between when the DVR missed my command because I was pointing in the wrong direction, or when it took my command and just hadn't done anything about it yet. :nono2:


----------



## KsBillsFan

My HR22 started to make a loud grinding sound and the fan would spin so fast and loud it would wake us up at night. I call tech support (I have the protection plan) and asked for the receiver to replaced. The CSR refused saying the sounds were normal. I have complained over the three years I have had the receiver that it was extremely slow to change channels and bring up any guide or list items. The CSR again said this was normal. I asked nicely again for the receiver to replaced and he refused. Even though I had the protection plan, he wouldn't do it. I had to ask for his supervisor who immediately replaced the receiver for me. DTV refuses to give their CSRs the power to keep customers happy. 

They sent me another HR22 and it is extremely slow. Also have noticed that recored programs tile and skip. Also have issue when fast forwarding or rewinding recorded programs. I just don't have the energy to call customer support to get the issue fixed.


----------



## Rich

KsBillsFan said:


> My HR22 started to make a loud grinding sound and the fan would spin so fast and loud it would wake us up at night. I call tech support (I have the protection plan) and asked for the receiver to replaced. The CSR refused saying the sounds were normal. I have complained over the three years I have had the receiver that it was extremely slow to change channels and bring up any guide or list items. The CSR again said this was normal. I asked nicely again for the receiver to replaced and he refused. Even though I had the protection plan, he wouldn't do it. I had to ask for his supervisor who immediately replaced the receiver for me. DTV refuses to give their CSRs the power to keep customers happy.
> 
> They sent me another HR22 and it is extremely slow. Also have noticed that recored programs tile and skip. Also have issue when fast forwarding or rewinding recorded programs. I just don't have the energy to call customer support to get the issue fixed.


22-xxx? If it's the 100, you're not alone.

Rich


----------



## Richierich

KsBillsFan said:


> They sent me another HR22 and it is extremely slow. Also have noticed that recored programs tile and skip. Also have issue when fast forwarding or rewinding recorded programs. I just don't have the energy to call customer support to get the issue fixed.


Hang in there until the Next National Release of the Software as I have been assured that it will Fix these Problems.


----------



## TBoneit

Richierich said:


> Hang in there until the Next National Release of the Software as I have been assured that it will Fix these Problems.


How will that fix what sounds as if it could be the hard drive failing?


----------



## Richierich

TBoneit said:


> How will that fix what sounds as if it could be the hard drive failing?


Software can affect Hardware as something very similar happened over a year ago (fan would run very fast and not turn off) and Directv fixed it with a New Emergency Download.

Also, about 2 or 3 years ago DVRs started locking up because of Corrupted Guide Data and the New Software was Not Compatible with it so they had to roll it back to the Previous NR until they could fix the Guide Data Incompatability.

If it was truly causing the Hard Drive to Thrash or Overwork then the DVR would report Heat Temperature Issues but it is not, so it appears Software Related so fixing it shouldn't be a big deal.


----------



## Dknow

Go to channel one...once the info bar disappears hit the following keys in this sequence: red, red, blue, blue, yellow, green

at the bottom left of the screen you will see that the RAM was cleared with a message...this should speed those old girls up tremendously.


----------



## Richierich

Dknow said:


> Go to channel one...once the info bar disappears hit the following keys in this sequence: red, red, blue, blue, yellow, green
> 
> at the bottom left of the screen you will see that the RAM was cleared with a message...this should speed those old girls up tremendously.


Clearing the NVRAM helps some but another Software Download is going to be needed to in order to fix all of the Problems with Sluggishness and it is coming soon.


----------



## raott

"Richierich" said:


> Hang in there until the Next National Release of the Software as I have been assured that it will Fix these Problems.


The HDGUI was suppose to fix the slowness problems. There has been a long track record of "the next release will fix the problems"' only to result in it not happening. It took years and multiple releases to make the HRs "kind of" acceptable only to take a huge step back with the HDGUI.


----------



## frogg

Excuse me if I don't think the next release will fix anything.:nono2:


----------



## TBoneit

Richierich said:


> Software can affect Hardware as something very similar happened over a year ago (fan would run very fast and not turn off) and Directv fixed it with a New Emergency Download.
> 
> Also, about 2 or 3 years ago DVRs started locking up because of Corrupted Guide Data and the New Software was Not Compatible with it so they had to roll it back to the Previous NR until they could fix the Guide Data Incompatability.
> 
> If it was truly causing the hard drive to thrash or overwork then the DVR would report Heat Temperature Issues but it is no,t so it appears Software Related so fixing it shouldn't be a big deal.


Thanks for the answer.


----------



## skyboysea

frogg said:


> Excuse me if I don't think the next release will fix anything.:nono2:


Have faith. The question is: what else they are going to break while trying to fix the slowness problem?

Someone already knows the answer and it is not a good thing.


----------



## Rich

TBoneit said:


> How will that fix what sounds as if it could be the hard drive failing?


He does seem to be describing that "grinding glass" sound an HDD makes when it fails catastrophically.

Rich


----------



## milwaukee111

i had 5 diretv dvrs. four of them are hr 20s. one is 21 or 22 (not sure).
Anyway, whether directv admits it or not, and based on all these posts, their DVRs are obviously slow.
They became slow over the past 2 to 3 years.. coinciding with software updates.. Latest making them undesirable to use every day.

When I complained, they replaced hr20 with another hr 20.. 

I moved to dish/hopper and am very pleased. 

Anyway.. directv does not care (neither would dish, I would imagine), as to how long you are a customer. They would not do anything special for me, eventhough I asked for a hr24.. they sent a hr 20. No point in calling them back to complain..just swtiched.. 
Therefore, if you are not under contract, best option is to move to Dish.. It is an obvious answer and the only reason I make it is that I notice some people seem to emphasize who long they are with directv.. One guy since 1997 (I am not sure why he advertises it so much.. lol - hey, I mean no offense to you). It would be incorrect to think that being loyal to directv (or dish) would get us any special privileges.. We don't! (off topic - cell phone companies seem to care.. if you are 10 year customer, you get some special privileges - sorry.. just an off topic remark based on personal experience. I don't want to start anything on that and I am not touting any single company).

I suppose, if enough people move, at least the remaining subscribes would be lucky that directv would act much faster.. When I called directv to cancel, they tried to retain me but really would not acknowledge the problem and didn't offer the HR24 units. 

It is a pain to move.. A whole day of waiting for installer and having it installed.. but it was worth it for me.. Besides, I had to spend many many hours trying to work around the Lack of IR (long story hopper has only one IR address and they won't give us a remote with IR output).

The hopper is very fast.. comes with 2 tb built in.. and you can watch your dvr programming on your phone.


----------



## Richierich

frogg said:


> Excuse me if I don't think the next release will fix anything.:nono2:


You'll see and then you can PM me and say whatever you feel you want or need to say at that time. 

What will be Bad is if you Move to Dish or Whatever and the Next Release Does Fix the Problem of Sluggishness how will you feel???

Should I have waited a little longer?

I know about the Frustration because I have 2 HR23-700s and I have to deal with them occasionally but Thank God I have the HR24-500s with WD20EADS Drives on them (which I think helps the situation).

And Yes the HDGUI National Release Software should have fixed everyone (it helped a lot of people but hurt others) so let's see if Directv finally gets it right.

My 2 HR23-700s only Backup my other HR24-500s.


----------



## dpeters11

If they like the switch for other reasons, maybe it's a decent move, but not necessarily if the situation that causes the switch only lasts a month or two.

Personally, I'm staying where I'm at and looking forward to what happens this year.


----------



## jmpfaff

Moderators, I have a request. Can we get a sticky thread created with tips on how to reduce / mitigate some of the slowness issues?

I've seen several different tips from the technical experts -- the key sequence to clear NVRAM is one example -- and it would be nice to have them all together rather than spread out through a soon to be 500 post conversation.


----------



## dpeters11

The problem is some can take the tips too far. I mentioned the NVRAM clearing to a friend once, then found he started to clear it several times a week. Things like scrolling effect, native or remote ID aren't so bad.


----------



## Podkayne

I had about decided to jump to cable, until I saw another thread where the Time Warner boxes were more unreliable than the HR-x4-xxx boxes. I'm upset with this whole situation, but not enough to make a commitment I would regret. So I suppose I'll just go with DTV for a while longer.


----------



## sacflies

I am on the verge of joining you at Dish. I have doubts that another 'upgrade' will fix all these issues. My HD receivers have been slow ever since I switched to D*, but now they are insanely slow. I really don't have any reason to stay with D*. I don't get the sports packages because they are too expensive. And other than that D* and E* are pretty much tit for tat. Going to make a decision soon.



milwaukee111 said:


> i had 5 diretv dvrs. four of them are hr 20s. one is 21 or 22 (not sure).
> Anyway, whether directv admits it or not, and based on all these posts, their DVRs are obviously slow.
> They became slow over the past 2 to 3 years.. coinciding with software updates.. Latest making them undesirable to use every day.
> 
> When I complained, they replaced hr20 with another hr 20..
> 
> I moved to dish/hopper and am very pleased.
> 
> Anyway.. directv does not care (neither would dish, I would imagine), as to how long you are a customer. They would not do anything special for me, eventhough I asked for a hr24.. they sent a hr 20. No point in calling them back to complain..just swtiched..
> Therefore, if you are not under contract, best option is to move to Dish.. It is an obvious answer and the only reason I make it is that I notice some people seem to emphasize who long they are with directv.. One guy since 1997 (I am not sure why he advertises it so much.. lol - hey, I mean no offense to you). It would be incorrect to think that being loyal to directv (or dish) would get us any special privileges.. We don't! (off topic - cell phone companies seem to care.. if you are 10 year customer, you get some special privileges - sorry.. just an off topic remark based on personal experience. I don't want to start anything on that and I am not touting any single company).
> 
> I suppose, if enough people move, at least the remaining subscribes would be lucky that directv would act much faster.. When I called directv to cancel, they tried to retain me but really would not acknowledge the problem and didn't offer the HR24 units.
> 
> It is a pain to move.. A whole day of waiting for installer and having it installed.. but it was worth it for me.. Besides, I had to spend many many hours trying to work around the Lack of IR (long story hopper has only one IR address and they won't give us a remote with IR output).
> 
> The hopper is very fast.. comes with 2 tb built in.. and you can watch your dvr programming on your phone.


----------



## carlsbad_bolt_fan

Dknow said:


> Go to channel one...once the info bar disappears hit the following keys in this sequence: red, red, blue, blue, yellow, green
> 
> at the bottom left of the screen you will see that the RAM was cleared with a message...this should speed those old girls up tremendously.


Just tried doing this as my HR20's have slowed quite a bit and that sequence did nothing. Once I hit red-red, I heard the "bong-bong" sound, blue-blue just brought up the one line mini guide then removed it, yellow did nothing and green displayed "English" on the screen.

After trying that, switching to ESPN (206) took FOREVER. Didnt' keep track as to how long. Got tired of waiting so I punched up CNN, then back to ESPN. That went rather quickly.


----------



## Richierich

Are you sure you switched to Channel 1?

I just did it and it worked perfectly and I got the Message at the bottom left of the screen "NVRAM Flash Cleared".

Did you wait about 30 Seconds for everything to finish loading???


----------



## billsharpe

Richierich said:


> You'll see and then you can PM me and say whatever you feel you want or need to say at that time.
> 
> What will be Bad is if you Move to Dish or Whatever and the Next Release Does Fix the Problem of Sluggishness how will you feel???
> 
> Should I have waited a little longer?
> 
> I know about the Frustration because I have 2 HR23-700s and I have to deal with them occasionally but Thank God I have the HR24-500s with WD20EADS Drives on them (which I think helps the situation).
> 
> And Yes the HDGUI National Release Software should have fixed everyone (it helped a lot of people but hurt others) so let's see if Directv finally gets it right.
> 
> My 2 HR23-700s only Backup my other HR24-500s.


I switched to FiOS last October rather than waiting. I'd still be waiting...

Much more responsive DVR, saved some money, and my blood pressure is down.


----------



## makaiguy

carlsbad_bolt_fan said:


> Just tried doing this as my HR20's have slowed quite a bit and that sequence did nothing. Once I hit red-red, I heard the "bong-bong" sound, blue-blue just brought up the one line mini guide then removed it, yellow did nothing and green displayed "English" on the screen.


You probably didn't wait until the page was fully loaded. There's a fair amount of stuff that loads behind the scenes on that page.


----------



## BattleScott

Podkayne said:


> I had about decided to jump to cable, until I saw another thread where the Time Warner boxes were more unreliable than the HR-x4-xxx boxes. I'm upset with this whole situation, but not enough to make a commitment I would regret. So I suppose I'll just go with DTV for a while longer.


As bad as the DirecTV boxes are right now, they are still light years ahead of what TW is offerinng in our area. We had the digital cable installed in our office (south dayton) and it is horrible, both the receiver and the PQ. If you can get Uverse, that is a much better option (if you can live with the limitations on HD streams).


----------



## sigma1914

BattleScott said:


> As bad as the DirecTV boxes are right now, they are still light years ahead of what TW is offerinng in our area. We had the digital cable installed in our office (south dayton) and it is horrible, both the receiver and the PQ. If you can get Uverse, that is a much better option (if you can live with the limitations on HD streams).


UVerse boxes are no better. Channel changing is fast, but setting up recordings and stuff is as slow or slower than DirecTV.


----------



## Laxguy

Richierich said:


> Are you sure you switched to Channel 1?
> 
> I just did it and it worked perfectly and I got the Message at the bottom left of the screen "NVRAM Cleared".


It's also a matter of the right speed. The message can be very hard to see, depending what's on the screen. It appears in lower left, quite faint white. But getting the messages or bongs you did may indicate it needs to be done faster.


----------



## Richierich

makaiguy said:


> You probably didn't wait until the page was fully loaded. There's a fair amount of stuff that loads behind the scenes on that page.


+1.


----------



## Richierich

Laxguy said:


> It's also a matter of the right speed. The message can be very hard to see, depending what's on the screen. It appears in lower left, quite faint white. But getting the messages or bongs you did may indicate it needs to be done faster.


EXACTLY!!!


----------



## BattleScott

"sigma1914" said:


> UVerse boxes are no better. Channel changing is fast, but setting up recordings and stuff is as slow or slower than DirecTV.


Hogwash. The directv boxes are functionally better as far as interface design but speed is a no- brainer. I have several family members with UVerse now and there is simply no comparison as far as speed goes. There is absolutely no function on the UVerse DVR that is slower than my HR24, let alone my HR22.


----------



## KsBillsFan

Rich said:


> 22-xxx? If it's the 100, you're not alone.
> 
> Rich


Not sure, have not looked.

Emailed the customer advocacy team. Asked for an HR34 as an replacement but they said no. They say it is a more advance box and I'd have to pay $199 for it and extend my contract. Trying to keep myself contract free, as it seems you get better customer service when you are contract free. So they are sending me an HR24 instead. I have a HR24 already in the other room and it works fine. Hope this solves the issues I am seeing.


----------



## gordon1fan

I've been a long time DIRECTV customer. I have a DIRECTV HD DVR HR21-100. This receiver has been giving me a lot of trouble. Locking up, not responding to the remote, etc. A while ago, I was about to pull my hair out! I called DIRECTV asking them to change this receiver out. He said that DIRECTV is retiring the HR 21-XXX receivers. He said that they would probably send me out a HR-24. I sure hope so! If they send me out anything like I already have, I'm calling back and canceling my DIRECTV. I can't take this piece of crap box anymore!


----------



## gordon1fan

MarkG21 said:


> OP: Just a suggestion
> 
> Go out and buy (lease) an HR-24 from retail and call direcTV for a credit. I state that because I've read that people on this board has successfully done just that. It might work, it might not work. If it doesn't work, simply return the receiver. It may take the retention department to give you the credit. Just a suggestion.


Yea after you fax them a copy of the receipt that they will never get! Been there done that, it don't work!


----------



## wahooq

> Been there done that, it don't work!


yeah not sure where that started at


----------



## Dood

Screw DirecTV. I am going to pay the $300 just to dump their ass and NEVER return. My DVR is the biggest POS I have ever seen. After watching a recorded program, when I delete it, it takes 12 to 15 seconds. Changing channels take bewteen 4 and 6 seconds.

I am tired of this [redacted]. I am tired of the excuses. I am tired of the promises that NEVER get filled. I am tired of it all.


----------



## MysteryMan

Dood said:


> Screw DirecTV. I am going to pay the $300 just to dump their ass and NEVER return. My DVR is the biggest POS I have ever seen. After watching a recorded program, when I delete it, it takes 12 to 15 seconds. Changing channels take bewteen 4 and 6 seconds.
> 
> I am tired of this sh|t. I am tired of the excuses. I am tired of the promises that NEVER get filled. I am tired of it all.


:wave: I'm sure you'll be missed.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

Dood said:


> Screw DirecTV. I am going to pay the $300 just to dump their ass and NEVER return. My DVR is the biggest POS I have ever seen. After watching a recorded program, when I delete it, it takes 12 to 15 seconds. Changing channels take bewteen 4 and 6 seconds.
> 
> I am tired of this [redacted]. I am tired of the excuses. I am tired of the promises that NEVER get filled. I am tired of it all.


As I posted in the thread you started, these times are abnormal and should be fixed.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=3005957#post3005957

Mike


----------



## Richierich

Dood said:


> Screw DirecTV. I am going to pay the $300 just to dump their ass and NEVER return. My DVR is the biggest POS I have ever seen. After watching a recorded program, when I delete it, it takes 12 to 15 seconds. Changing channels take bewteen 4 and 6 seconds.
> 
> I am tired of this [redacted]. I am tired of the excuses. I am tired of the promises that NEVER get filled. I am tired of it all.


Directv is Rolling out their Fix for this Problem right now as we speak in the New National Release and you should be getting it soon so just hang in there a little while longer until you get the NR and see if it works and alleviates your situation.


----------



## sunking

gordon1fan said:


> Yea after you fax them a copy of the receipt that they will never get! Been there done that, it don't work!


I've done this on 3 different occasions and never had to send anything. The first 2 times I called prior and they simply noted it on my account and gave me a credit when I called to activate. The last time I just bought it and did the whole thing when I activated. Granted this was about 2 years ago, so maybe things have changed.


----------



## sunking

Richierich said:


> Directv is Rolling out their Fix for this Problem right now as we speak in the New National Release and you should be getting it soon so just hang in there a little while longer until you get the NR and see if it works and alleviates your situation.


I don't understand how this could be when they say there is no problem to fix. Are you saying they lie, or at the very least deceive, their customers?


----------



## nollchr

Richierich said:


> Directv is Rolling out their Fix for this Problem right now as we speak in the New National Release and you should be getting it soon so just hang in there a little while longer until you get the NR and see if it works and alleviates your situation.


Should we clear out our NVRAM prior to this release rollout??


----------



## Marty999

sunking said:


> I don't understand how this could be when they say there is no problem to fix. Are you saying they lie, or at the very least deceive, their customers?


I called yesterday to add my voice to complaints about my HR 20 and HR 24 being slow (HR 20 being slowest). I've followed all the advice in the forum for months and it seems to help -- native off, scrolling off, NVRAM clear, clear guide with two reboots in 30 minutes, but the problem persistantly comes back. The tech, after suggesting I turn off scrolling and native, said they know they have an "engineering issue" with the slowness. That was the first admission I had seen or heard. Hope Richierich is right and the fiix is coming and will fix it. I've had fios for everything else for 3 years and if this fix doesn't do it, my decade of DTV will be over. There are pros and cons with fios and DTV, but at least fios has basic functionality and I won't lose signal in bad weather. Can't continue with lack of basic functionality.


----------



## MysteryMan

Marty999 said:


> I called yesterday to add my voice to complaints about my HR 20 and HR 24 being slow (HR 20 being slowest). I've followed all the advice in the forum for months and it seems to help -- native off, scrolling off, NVRAM clear, clear guide with two reboots in 30 minutes, but the problem persistantly comes back. The tech, after suggesting I turn off scrolling and native, said they know they have an "engineering issue" with the slowness. That was the first admission I had seen or heard. Hope Richierich is right and the fiix is coming and will fix it. I've had fios for everything else for 3 years and if this fix doesn't do it, my decade of DTV will be over. There are pros and cons with fios and DTV, but at least fios has basic functionality and I won't lose signal in bad weather. Can't continue with lack of basic functionality.


I have two HR24-500s. The oldest began having issues last Thursday (slow command response, menu freeze ups). I called DirecTV yesterday and they admitted they are aware of the issues we are having and are working on it. They instructed me to turn off Scrolling Effects, clear the NVRAM and do a double reset followed with a Send Report. The cache is still rebuilding and Native is still set to on but the issues I was having are gone and the receiver is performing normally.


----------



## lparsons21

Richierich said:


> Directv is Rolling out their Fix for this Problem right now as we speak in the New National Release and you should be getting it soon so just hang in there a little while longer until you get the NR and see if it works and alleviates your situation.


Is this rollout going to be like the last two in that they seemingly took forever to finally get around to me? Or are they going to push it quicker?


----------



## MysteryMan

lparsons21 said:


> Is this rollout going to be like the last two in that they seemingly took forever to finally get around to me? Or are they going to push it quicker?


I've noticed on Firmware Watcher 0x5c8 has appeared overnight for the last few days and currently shows as being active for the H25-700.


----------



## sigma1914

lparsons21 said:


> Is this rollout going to be like the last two in that they seemingly took forever to finally get around to me? Or are they going to push it quicker?


Someone got it last night. Looks it it's still bad... http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=204389


----------



## Mike Greer

I got it night before last on the HR24-500 I use most. Haven't checked the others yet. Speed is better but it just restarted and the slow downs don't usually start for 2 or 3 days....

I have noticed a bunch of audio drop outs - hopefully this isn't a new problem with the new firmware.

I'll report back once I have a chance to play around...


----------



## BBM3

Dknow said:


> Go to channel one...once the info bar disappears hit the following keys in this sequence: red, red, blue, blue, yellow, green
> 
> at the bottom left of the screen you will see that the RAM was cleared with a message...this should speed those old girls up tremendously.


Oh how I wish I had known this trick years ago!
Unbelievable how quick my old HR21-700's are now.


----------



## Dood

sigma1914 said:


> Someone got it last night. *Looks it it's still bad*... http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=204389


Wow! I am shocked! :lol:

Seriously, did anyone really expect they would get it right? They never have before!


----------



## gordon1fan

"Dood" said:


> Wow! I am shocked! :lol:
> 
> Seriously, did anyone really expect they would get it right? They never have before!


+1. LOL!


----------



## rey_1178

Dood said:


> Wow! I am shocked! :lol:
> 
> Seriously, did anyone really expect they would get it right? They never have before!


you canceled your acct yet?


----------



## billsharpe

rey_1178 said:


> you canceled your acct yet?


Yes, back in October


----------



## sigma1914

billsharpe said:


> Yes, back in October


We know - you tell us repeatedly. :lol:


----------



## sacflies

The Dood abides!

I guess this has been pointed out already, but sluggish D* receiver issues have been going on for several years now. Just google "slow directv receivers". My receivers have been slow and sluggish since I signed on 2+ years ago. Of course now they are even slower. Point is what makes anyone think that they are going to magically fix this problem now? I will be very surprised if it happens. I'm just about tired of waiting and am very close to making the "hop".


----------



## swyman18

"Richierich" said:


> Directv is Rolling out their Fix for this Problem right now as we speak in the New National Release and you should be getting it soon so just hang in there a little while longer until you get the NR and see if it works and alleviates your situation.


You don't seriously believe that, right?


----------



## Dood

sacflies said:


> The Dood abides!
> 
> I guess this has been pointed out already, but sluggish D* receiver issues have been going on for several years now. Just google "slow directv receivers". My receivers have been slow and sluggish since I signed on 2+ years ago. Of course now they are even slower. Point is what makes anyone think that they are going to magically fix this problem now? I will be very surprised if it happens. I'm just about tired of waiting and am very close to making the "hop".


If I hear "A fix is on the way" one more time I am going to puke down my own throat. I left DirecTV years ago because their DVRs were absolutely terrible, and I come back to them last fall and the damn things are freaking worse then ever.



swyman18 said:


> You don't seriously believe that, right?


I think he a corporate shill or at the minimum works for DirecTV.


----------



## MysteryMan

My wife and I know a woman who has been divorced for some time. She's always talking about her ex husband yet states she want's nothing to do with him. Kind of reminds me of you DISH subs who left DirecTV yet spend hours on DirecTV threads talking about DirecTV. :sure:


----------



## gbubar

MysteryMan said:


> My wife and I know a woman who has been divorced for some time. She's always talking about her ex husband yet states she want's nothing to do with him. Kind of reminds me of you DISH subs who left DirecTV yet spend hours on DirecTV threads talking about DirecTV. :sure:


You have to love it...


----------



## sregener

MysteryMan said:


> My wife and I know a woman who has been divorced for some time. She's always talking about her ex husband yet states she want's nothing to do with him. Kind of reminds me of you DISH subs who left DirecTV yet spend hours on DirecTV threads talking about DirecTV. :sure:


Well, I don't want to take that marriage analogy too far. That's just... uncomfortable.

It's more like this. After years of cutting through branches with a hacksaw, somebody finally stops believing the lies that their blade is just dull and needs replacing or that the next hand tool is going to be the one that fixes things. Yes, it's slow, and sometimes frustratingly difficult, but the thing does cut. Then one day they go out and buy a chainsaw. Shazam! Who knew you could do this so fast and so easy?!?!

Now, if you were the proud owner of a new chainsaw, and you saw other people still hacking away at trees with their hand tools, wouldn't you want them to know there was a better way? Who, better than you, would know what holds people back? And would you turn a deaf ear to the hacksaw fans when they repeat the promises of a better tomorrow if people would just be a little more patient?

The reality is this: If DirecTV did not have an exclusive contract with the NFL for Sunday Ticket, they'd be bankrupt, finished, done. Their DVRs are the worst. Good riddance.


----------



## MysteryMan

sregener said:


> Well, I don't want to take that marriage analogy too far. That's just... uncomfortable.
> 
> It's more like this. After years of cutting through branches with a hacksaw, somebody finally stops believing the lies that their blade is just dull and needs replacing or that the next hand tool is going to be the one that fixes things. Yes, it's slow, and sometimes frustratingly difficult, but the thing does cut. Then one day they go out and buy a chainsaw. Shazam! Who knew you could do this so fast and so easy?!?!
> 
> Now, if you were the proud owner of a new chainsaw, and you saw other people still hacking away at trees with their hand tools, wouldn't you want them to know there was a better way? Who, better than you, would know what holds people back? And would you turn a deaf ear to the hacksaw fans when they repeat the promises of a better tomorrow if people would just be a little more patient?
> 
> The reality is this: If DirecTV did not have an exclusive contract with the NFL for Sunday Ticket, they'd be bankrupt, finished, done. Their DVRs are the worst. Good riddance.


Really? Can you back your statements with facts or are you simply posting your opinions?


----------



## Richierich

swyman18 said:


> You don't seriously believe that, right?


No, I am a Corporate Shill who works for DirecTV!!! :lol:

Yes, I do believe it but if they Rush it out it may cause some other problems so we will have to wait and see.

If it doesn't work then maybe Directv will wake up and start Replacing those Sluggish Models with HR24s or HR34s to Slow Down Churn that will happen when people give up in Frustration.

I'm just Glad that 5 or my 7 DVRs are HR24-500s and are working Fast without any Problems.

My 2 HR23-700s are Slow but not as Slow as others Report but I don't use them on a Daily Basis but as Backup DVRs.


----------



## Richierich

Dood said:


> If I hear "A fix is on the way" one more time I am going to puke down my own throat.


Better start Puking Down Your Throat!!!

How do you do that anyway???

Just Curious!!! :lol:


----------



## AlanSaysYo

sregener said:


> The reality is this: If DirecTV did not have an exclusive contract with the NFL for Sunday Ticket, they'd be bankrupt, finished, done. Their DVRs are the worst. Good riddance.


I was following your logic until that. There's just no responsibility in that statement. Many people have DirecTV receivers that work quite well and enjoy the service they receive. It is entirely possible to acknowledge that a group of customers are having DVR issues while other customers are not.


----------



## bman3333

I agree that old STB equipment is a major cause of customer dis-satisfaction with DirecTV. Prior to leaving DirecTV last November, I had two re-furbished HR22's that were slow and noisy. Upon returning to DirecTV this week, I made sure I would receive new equipment and it makes a world of difference in my experience. I realize that with 19.9 million subscribers, upgrading all of them to the latest hardware would be expensive and logistically challenging. But as my DirecTV installer said during my install on Tuesday, why does DirecTV still send his warehouse refurbished HR21 and HR22 for new customer installs? And why would they give existing customers a hard time about upgrading the equipment at no charge upfront when it vastly improves the QOS and chances of keeping the customer for an additional 2 years (w/ a monthly leased equipment fee to boot)? Seems like a better marketing investment than a Charlie Sheen ad.


----------



## gordon1fan

bman3333 said:


> I agree that old STB equipment is a major cause of customer dis-satisfaction with DirecTV. Prior to leaving DirecTV last November, I had two re-furbished HR22's that were slow and noisy. Upon returning to DirecTV this week, I made sure I would receive new equipment and it makes a world of difference in my experience. I realize that with 19.9 million subscribers, upgrading all of them to the latest hardware would be expensive and logistically challenging. But as my DirecTV installer said during my install on Tuesday, why does DirecTV still send his warehouse refurbished HR21 and HR22 for new customer installs? And why would they give existing customers a hard time about upgrading the equipment at no charge upfront when it vastly improves the QOS and chances of keeping the customer for an additional 2 years (w/ a monthly leased equipment fee to boot)? Seems like a better marketing investment than a Charlie Sheen ad.


+1


----------



## Dood

Richierich said:


> No, I am a Corporate Shill who works for DirecTV!!! :lol:
> 
> Yes, I do believe it but if they Rush it out it may cause some other problems so we will have to wait and see.
> 
> If it doesn't work then maybe Directv will wake up and start Replacing those Sluggish Models with HR24s or HR34s to Slow Down Churn that will happen when people give up in Frustration.
> 
> I'm just Glad that 5 or my 7 DVRs are HR24-500s and are working Fast without any Problems.
> 
> My 2 HR23-700s are Slow but not as Slow as others Report but I don't use them on a Daily Basis but as Backup DVRs.


Please give me one reason I should believe a permanent and reliable fix is on the way. You can't go by past fix's because there are none.

Also, tell me why would DirecTV send out OLD refurbed equipment to new customers? That would be like me going to GM to buy a new car and they deliver a 1972 Vega.

DirecTV has a terrible business plan and they could care less.


----------



## MysteryMan

Dood said:


> Please give me one reason I should believe a permanent and reliable fix is on the way. You can't go by past fix's because there are none.
> 
> Also, tell me why would DirecTV send out OLD refurbed equipment to new customers? That would be like me going to GM to buy a new car and they deliver a 1972 Vega.
> 
> DirecTV has a terrible business plan and they could care less.


Perhaps a crying towel will help.


----------



## lparsons21

MysteryMan said:


> Perhaps a crying towel will help.


Thanks for the snarky response. But I got to thinking, maybe a crying towel would be just as effective as any fix that D* software guys are going to produce! 

The HRs are running slower now, including the sainted HR24, since the HDGUI and the remote response issue is now back to haunt us. And for 6 years, there has been little improvement for any appreciable length of time.

The HR24 with the SDGUI that I got when I returned to D* was fine. Nearly as quick as the Vip722k and Vip612 that I had with Dish and perfectly acceptable. Enter the HDGUI, and all the problems of the past re-appeared. So depending on history as a guideline, there will possibly be a modest fix that will last long enough for many to write glowing reports, then followed by another 'fix' that will have us back at the same issues yet again. That is what history tells us!


----------



## Richierich

Dood said:


> Please give me one reason I should believe a permanent and reliable fix is on the way. You can't go by past fix's because there are none.
> 
> Also, tell me why would DirecTV send out OLD refurbed equipment to new customers? That would be like me going to GM to buy a new car and they deliver a 1972 Vega.


I can tell you that for certain that Directv is doing everything they can to Fix this Problem and I can't tell you who my Sources are but they both Assure me that the next Release should help alleviate the Speed Problems.

It may not be a Perfect Fix and may need a couple of more tweeks but it should help a lot of people.

I agree with you that Directv should change their Business Model and Replace every customer's old DVR when they complain that they have a problem as I have been told by Ellen Filipiak's Office (she is Vice President in charge of Customer Service) that they are very much aware of the problem and it will be fixed.

I think they should Replace all Old HR20s, HR21s, HR22s, HR23s with HR24s and Be Done With The Problem.

That is what I would do if I were President/CEO!!!


----------



## Shades228

sregener said:


> The reality is this: If DirecTV did not have an exclusive contract with the NFL for Sunday Ticket, they'd be bankrupt, finished, done. Their DVRs are the worst. Good riddance.


NFLST subscribers are a very small % of overall subscribers.



Richierich said:


> I can tell you that for certain that Directv is doing everything they can to Fix this Problem and I can't tell you who my Sources are but they both Assure me that the next Release should help alleviate the Speed Problems.
> 
> It may not be a Perfect Fix and may need a couple of more tweeks but it should help a lot of people.
> 
> I agree with you that Directv should change their Business Model and Replace every customer's old DVR when they complain that they have a problem as I have been told by Ellen Filipiak's Office (she is Vice President in charge of Customer Service) that they are very much aware of the problem and it will be fixed.
> 
> I think they should Replace all Old HR20s, HR21s, HR22s, HR23s with HR24s and Be Done With The Problem.
> 
> That is what I would do if I were President/CEO!!!


You would if you didn't want to get your incentive bonus's for stock prices as the financial costs to do that would be staggering and wasteful in most cases.


----------



## Richierich

Shades228 said:


> You would if you didn't want to get your incentive bonus's for stock prices as the financial costs to do that would be staggering and wasteful in most cases.


Not if my Goal was to Increase Subscribers by Reducing Churn and I believe this will cause an Increase in Churn so in the Long Run I believe it would be Better to Bite the Bullet and write off the extra expense so you could boast a Truly Great HDTV Experience.


----------



## skyboysea

Richierich said:


> I agree with you that Directv should change their Business Model and Replace every customer's old DVR when they complain that they have a problem as I have been told by Ellen Filipiak's Office (she is Vice President in charge of Customer Service) that they are very much aware of the problem and it will be fixed.


I am sure that they know that that slow receivers are a problem for many of their customers. I don't know if they really understand what their internal problem is. I mean releasing software that has not been tested; pushing hardware beyond its limits for marketing purpose; slowness to make CSR aware of issues when they exists; add more if you wish.

Those are the real problems that Directv has. Slow receivers are a symptom of them. But to solve those problem some heads have to fall: are they willing to do so?


----------



## mreposter

Richierich said:


> Not if my Goal was to Increase Subscribers by Reducing Churn and I believe this will cause an Increase in Churn so in the Long Run I believe it would be Better to Bite the Bullet and write off the extra expense so you could boast a Truly Great HDTV Experience.


Two issues:

1. Directv has one of the lowest churn rates in the industry, so despite issues some of us may have, the overall customer base isn't fleeing. So they don't have churn as an incentive to fix the problem.

2. These HD-DVR issues have been around for years. There have been Brrrrp audio issues, slow remote response issues, audio dropouts/stuttering, guide data issues, etc, etc. And those are just the problems I can recall from the last two years.

Given the company's history of dealing with other similar issues and taking years to fix problems, I just don't see this being a true priority. Sure, they may come out with some quickie patch to temporarily fix this for some people, but actually getting down deep in code and fixing the true underlying problems is doubtful.

I count myself fortunate that my HR23 has only occasional problems, but from reports here some are really suffering.


----------



## MysteryMan

lparsons21 said:


> Thanks for the snarky response. But I got to thinking, maybe a crying towel would be just as effective as any fix that D* software guys are going to produce!
> 
> The HRs are running slower now, including the sainted HR24, since the HDGUI and the remote response issue is now back to haunt us. And for 6 years, there has been little improvement for any appreciable length of time.
> 
> The HR24 with the SDGUI that I got when I returned to D* was fine. Nearly as quick as the Vip722k and Vip612 that I had with Dish and perfectly acceptable. Enter the HDGUI, and all the problems of the past re-appeared. So depending on history as a guideline, there will possibly be a modest fix that will last long enough for many to write glowing reports, then followed by another 'fix' that will have us back at the same issues yet again. That is what history tells us!


Show me a provider that has a issue free receiver.


----------



## Richierich

mreposter said:


> Given the company's history of dealing with other similar issues and taking years to fix problems, I just don't see this being a true priority. Sure, they may come out with some quickie patch to temporarily fix this for some people, but actually getting down deep in code and fixing the true underlying problems is doubtful.


I can tell you for certain that they Finally Realize that this is a Huge Problem and yes some Heads Will Fall as should be but they will Fix this Issue even if they have to Replace All Of The Old DVRs.

That is My Wish because the Old DVRs just don't have the Ability (CPU Speed and RAM) to accomplish everything the Marketing Department is trying to throw at it in order to compete with Dish, etc. not to talk about the Slowness of the Hard Drives.

I Replace all of my HR24-500s with 2 TB WD20EADS Drives with a larger 32 Mb Cache and they are working Flawlessly!!!

While others say their HR24-500s are not so the only difference there is the Hard Drive as everthing else is the same. Same DVR, Same Software but a Different Drive!!!

Makes you wonder why I don't Experience These Problems on my 5 HR24-500s (and I did say 5 as in all 5)!!!


----------



## Shades228

Richierich said:


> I can tell you for certain that they Finally Realize that this is a Huge Problem and yes some Heads Will Fall as should be but they will Fix this Issue even if they have to Replace All Of The Old DVRs.
> 
> That is My Wish because the Old DVRs just don't have the Ability (CPU Speed and RAM) to accomplish everything the Marketing Department is trying to throw at it in order to compete with Dish, etc. not to talk about the Slowness of the Hard Drives.
> 
> I Replace all of my HR24-500s with 2 TB WD20EADS Drives with a larger 32 Mb Cache and they are working Flawlessly!!!
> 
> *While others say their HR24-500s are not so they only difference there is the Hard Drive.*


There could be many factors in environments that can change the experience.


----------



## Barry in Conyers

MysteryMan said:


> Show me a provider that has a issue free receiver.


I don't care about other providers; I care about DirecTV.


----------



## MysteryMan

Shades228 said:


> There could be many factors in environments that can change the experience.


Exactly


----------



## lparsons21

MysteryMan said:


> Show me a provider that has a issue free receiver.


There isn't one , of course, but name another that has the same issue since the release of their first hddvr.


----------



## sregener

MysteryMan said:


> Show me a provider that has a issue free receiver.


This is exactly the problem: This type of argument is a smokescreen around the real issue.

Show me a provider that has a DVR that has problems with basic functionality like responding to remote control button presses, scrolling through the guide or bringing up a list of recorded programs. There's only one: DirecTV.

Yes, other DVRs from other providers have problems, but changing channels quickly and reliably isn't one of them. Having an unresponsive system where key presses are simply ignored is not one of them. Taking 15 seconds to bring up a list of recorded programs is not one of them.

In other words, you tell yourself, "Oh, they all have problems, so there's no point in switching to anybody else" which denies the fact that the other DVR's problems are obscure and something you're not likely to run into in regular, daily use. My DirecTV HR22-100, in spite of being perfect from DirecTV's point of view, was broken. I cursed at it regularly.

Stop being an apologist for DirecTV. Take 7 minutes and watch this video: 




There are better DVRs. With better functionality. They just aren't made for DirecTV.


----------



## MysteryMan

I've seen the video. Both satellite providers use those comparison advertisements. That's to be expected. Are people having issues with their receivers? Yes. Last week one of my HR24-500s started having slow command response and menu freeze. I called DirecTV, followed their instructions and the issues were resolved. Do a little research and you will see there was recently one poster here who spent days complaining about DirecTV receivers. Another member checked his posting history and revealed he had the same problems and complaints with DISH receivers when he was a sub. So again, show me a provider that has a issue free receiver. :sure:


----------



## davidjplatt

The excuse "show me a provider that has an issue free receiver" is not the answer - it's a deflection. Just because other providers have issues with their receivers doesn't mean DirecTV should accept the fact that they have issues with their receivers.

That argument doesn't cut if. I have two HR20-700 and two HR20-100 receivers and all of them at times become unresponsive for minutes at a time. This is mostly since the HD GUI "upgrade".

The point is DirecTV is charging a lot for their service - they should be addressing the performance issues they have with the software and not claiming they don't exist.

I've been with them since 1996 and I am just about at the point where I'm ready to say "screw it" and get FiOS for TV (I already have FiOS for internet) and get TV, phone and internet for $75 a month less than I'm paying now.

And upgrading receivers isn't the answer - it starts a new two year contract and I'm not willing to do that.


----------



## MysteryMan

davidjplatt said:


> The excuse "show me a provider that has an issue free receiver" is not the answer - it's a deflection. Just because other providers have issues with their receivers doesn't mean DirecTV should accept the fact that they have issues with their receivers.
> 
> That argument doesn't cut if. I have two HR20-700 and two HR20-100 receivers and all of them at times become unresponsive for minutes at a time. This is mostly since the HD GUI "upgrade".
> 
> The point is DirecTV is charging a lot for their service - they should be addressing the performance issues they have with the software and not claiming they don't exist.
> 
> I've been with them since 1996 and I am just about at the point where I'm ready to say "screw it" and get FiOS for TV (I already have FiOS for internet) and get TV, phone and internet for $75 a month less than I'm paying now.
> 
> And upgrading receivers isn't the answer - it starts a new two year contract and I'm not willing to do that.


Can software effect a receiver's performance? Yes. But so can a lot of other factors (receiver settings, flourescent lighting, HDTV backlighting, faulty remote commander, hook ups with other equipment like a A/V receiver, limited available space on the receiver's hard drive, ect.). Better to look for cause instead of blame. If your that frustrated then switch to Fios and let us know if the grass is greener.


----------



## lparsons21

MysteryMan said:


> Can software effect a receiver's performance? Yes. But so can a lot of other factors (receiver settings, flourescent lighting, HDTV backlighting, faulty remote commander, hook ups with other equipment like a A/V receiver, limited available space on the receiver's hard drive, ect.). Better to look for cause instead of blame. If your that frustrated then switch to Fios and let us know if the grass is greener.


All those are certainly factors. But then I have to think about my setup a bit.

When I switched to D*, I disconnected the HDMI cable from the Vip722k and moved it to the HR24-500 being installed. From the POV of the install that HDMI cable and coax to the HR were the only differences. None of the other equipment that had always worked great with the Vip722k was changed, nor were any settings changed. And with the SDGUI that was on the HR, things were just fine. Reasonable speed of overall operation, no remote response issues.

Then the HDGUI came out, no other changes to the system. Things started slowing down over a short time and proceeded to get worse. Update to HDGUI came out and yet slower overall operation though still tolerable, but remote response got worse.

None of the HRs have more than 50% useage of HD, I don't believe my plasma set has backlighting or if it does, it hasn't been any issue with any box but the HR24. IR or UHF remote operation changes nothing.

With all of that, the problem is at D*'s doorstep. And the question really isn't about what it is doing now, but does D* have the willingness and ability to fix it? History says no to both and that is sad! 

When I most likely switch back to E* in August it won't be because I dislike D* it will be because D* didn't like the collective me enough to fix their equipment. I don't care if the extra crap works or not, I care if the basic operation of the equipment works. Now it doesn't and the pessimist in me says D* won't fix it.


----------



## MysteryMan

lparsons21 said:


> All those are certainly factors. But then I have to think about my setup a bit.
> 
> When I switched to D*, I disconnected the HDMI cable from the Vip722k and moved it to the HR24-500 being installed. From the POV of the install that HDMI cable and coax to the HR were the only differences. None of the other equipment that had always worked great with the Vip722k was changed, nor were any settings changed. And with the SDGUI that was on the HR, things were just fine. Reasonable speed of overall operation, no remote response issues.
> 
> Then the HDGUI came out, no other changes to the system. Things started slowing down over a short time and proceeded to get worse. Update to HDGUI came out and yet slower overall operation though still tolerable, but remote response got worse.
> 
> None of the HRs have more than 50% useage of HD, I don't believe my plasma set has backlighting or if it does, it hasn't been any issue with any box but the HR24. IR or UHF remote operation changes nothing.
> 
> With all of that, the problem is at D*'s doorstep. And the question really isn't about what it is doing now, but does D* have the willingness and ability to fix it? History says no to both and that is sad!
> 
> When I most likely switch back to E* in August it won't be because I dislike D* it will be because D* didn't like the collective me enough to fix their equipment. I don't care if the extra crap works or not, I care if the basic operation of the equipment works. Now it doesn't and the pessimist in me says D* won't fix it.


I understand how you feel. However, the pessimist in me says DirecTV is the leading satellite provider and wishes to keep that status. It would be foolish for them not to address any software issues. Unfortunately when it comes to software issues a quick fix is a rarity.


----------



## sregener

MysteryMan said:


> I've seen the video. Both satellite providers use those comparison advertisements.
> 
> Do a little research and you will see there was recently one poster here who spent days complaining about DirecTV receivers. Another member checked his posting history and revealed he had the same problems and complaints with DISH receivers when he was a sub. So again, show me a provider that has a issue free receiver. :sure:


Oh, both do? Please provide the link where DirecTV demonstrates how much faster their DVRs are than Dish Network's. Or the one where they compare HD channels that aren't PPV or onDemand.

Yes, I know there are people who are never happy. But guess what? I was unhappy for two years, went through all the troubleshooting with DirecTV and was left with "that's normal operation for your receiver." And "we'll send you a new receiver, but it might be the same model you have now because we have no idea what receiver model you'll actually receive from us. But we'll be happy to extend your contract another two years with us if you want to play receiver roulette." My hard drive was 40% full, no lights on in the room, factory remote.

I switched to Dish on Saturday. My HR22-100 is boxed up and going to the post office this morning. The grass *is* greener. The Hopper is so much better, I can only come up with two reasons why anyone would choose DirecTV at this point: 1) Sunday Ticket 2) HD picture quality. I don't think anyone would choose DirecTV for their high-quality DVRs or their low-cost service.


----------



## bman3333

Certainly a lively discussion and I appreciate the different perspectives provided. As a computer gamer, I became obsessed with overclocking and pushing the most fps on the games I played. As anyone who also enjoyed benchmarking games for the sheer joy of seeing a smother frame rate at a higher res can tell you, no software can substitute for updated hardware when dealing with graphics. This is why AMD/ATI and Nvidia release newer hardware every 9 months! I have the utmost respect for DirecTV's UI programmers, but management expects them to make software for hardware that ranges in age from state of the art to more than 10 years old! How can they troubleshoot the user experience with such a range of hardware?


----------



## lparsons21

MysteryMan said:


> I understand how you feel. However, the pessimist in me says DirecTV is the leading satellite provider and wishes to keep that status. It would be foolish for them not to address any software issues. Unfortunately when it comes to software issues a quick fix is a rarity.


You'd think, right? 

I don't worry about who is #1, or if they are great or suck, I only care that they provide me the product and service I desire for a price I'm willing to pay. I left D* 3 years ago solely because of the performance of the HR21 I had, and came back to D* because my adult son wanted to get NFLST to follow his sainted San Diego Chargers. I ensured that I got only HR24s because of the postings here and other places that indicated that D* finally had a decent HDDVR with good performance.

Now today, I'm back at poor performing equipment and missing BBCA-HD channel and in August, a higher bill than I would pay to get good HW performance and all the basic HD that I desire. Since my son has indicated he isn't interested in paying for NFLST this next season and I certainly have no interest in it at all, switching back is not only a step up in performance, but a big savings even with a 12 month ETF. Something dramatic will have to happen before August to keep me in D*'s stable!


----------



## raott

"MysteryMan" said:


> I understand how you feel. However, the pessimist in me says DirecTV is the leading satellite provider and wishes to keep that status. It would be foolish for them not to address any software issues. Unfortunately when it comes to software issues a quick fix is a rarity.


Which is why you get it right the first time so a fix isn't necessary.

Something is broken in the process that the fixes in beta are not translating to the national release.


----------



## TBoneit

MysteryMan said:


> Show me a provider that has a issue free receiver.


The other providers may have issues, however I'm pretty sure based on anecdotal evidence that they work fine for all core (Basic) functions.

Based on viewing messages here it appears that the Dishnetwork Hopper from the first with it's initial version has performed speedily and did all basic hopper functions OK.



lparsons21 said:


> All those are certainly factors. But then I have to think about my setup a bit.
> 
> When I switched to D*, I disconnected the HDMI cable from the Vip722k and moved it to the HR24-500 being installed. From the POV of the install that HDMI cable and coax to the HR were the only differences. None of the other equipment that had always worked great with the Vip722k was changed, nor were any settings changed. And with the SDGUI that was on the HR, things were just fine. Reasonable speed of overall operation, no remote response issues.
> 
> Then the HDGUI came out, no other changes to the system. Things started slowing down over a short time and proceeded to get worse. Update to HDGUI came out and yet slower overall operation though still tolerable, but remote response got worse.
> 
> None of the HRs have more than 50% useage of HD, I don't believe my plasma set has backlighting or if it does, it hasn't been any issue with any box but the HR24. IR or UHF remote operation changes nothing.
> 
> With all of that, the problem is at D*'s doorstep. And the question really isn't about what it is doing now, but does D* have the willingness and ability to fix it? History says no to both and that is sad!
> 
> When I most likely switch back to E* in August it won't be because I dislike D* it will be because D* didn't like the collective me enough to fix their equipment. I don't care if the extra crap works or not, I care if the basic operation of the equipment works. Now it doesn't and the pessimist in me says D* won't fix it.


It does sound as if in your case it was for sure the HDGUI that was supposed to be the speed improver had the opposite effect.

I have a WD media player for all the extra junk the D* & E* are adding. Just leave me speedy reliable response to the remote and I'll be happy.

Here's a suggestion for DirecTV. Add the same supplier for the hardware and firmware that Dishnetwork uses and let them create a Hotrod speedy version of a HD DVR for use on the DirecTV system too. Maybe as a premium offering for subscribers with fancy in home theatre systems. the ER-25 Hi Performance DVR.

To me that would make sense to add a supplier that can deliver reliable and speedy equipment.


----------



## Laxguy

lparsons21 said:


> . Something dramatic will have to happen before August to keep me in D*'s stable!


I thought the horse had already left the barn! I guess you're saying the door hasn't been locked yet....


----------



## lparsons21

Laxguy said:


> I thought the horse had already left the barn! I guess you're saying the door hasn't been locked yet....


Not yet! I'm still in the 1st year rebates so I'm getting TV on the cheap for now. But come August when those expire and the bill goes up roughly $31/month it will make switching not only easy, but cheaper overall including the $240 ETF. With E*'s comeback offers, being able to reduce the receiver count by 1 and the less costly sub rate overall, I'll not only recoup the $240 in the 1st year, but actually put $240 in my pocket!

I'll gain BBCA-HD for sure but lose Showtime Extreme in HD probably, which means I'll trade HD viewing of the undercard boxing with SHOExtreme and gain Doctor Who and other shows in HD. Seems a fair trade.

Since my eyes don't perceive a difference in the HD both services offer, and I'm somewhat agnostic about providers, it all comes down to the dollars and the equipment performance issues.


----------



## sregener

I've posted a video I took this morning of Dish Network's Hopper so those of you without one can see what you're missing.


----------



## RAD

sregener said:


> I've posted a video I took this morning of Dish Network's Hopper so those of you without one can see what you're missing.


Actually I just tried the same things that you showed on a HR24-500 in my office and except for the channel change speed, which sometimes is very slow, I'm not seeing that big of a difference, maybe .5 to 1 second difference, if any.


----------



## sigma1914

sregener said:


> I've posted a video I took this morning of Dish Network's Hopper so those of you without one can see what you're missing.


My HR24 is just as fast.


----------



## lparsons21

RAD said:


> Actually I just tried the same things that you showed on a HR24-500 in my office and except for the channel change speed, which sometimes is very slow, I'm not seeing that big of a difference, maybe .5 to 1 second difference, if any.


And I just tried all those things on 2 of my HR24-500s and got the usual somewhat slower operation and of course, the more prevalent remote ignoring issue. Hard to have to put up with both a somewhat slower overall operation (though acceptable) AND the darned remote response which is just greatly aggravating!


----------



## Laxguy

sregener said:


> I've posted a video I took this morning of Dish Network's Hopper so those of you without one can see what you're missing.


Since you have no information in your Profile, I conclude you are a Dish sub. True? 
And you have posted here before under another name. True?

Have you ever actually been a DIRECTV® subscriber?


----------



## HDSC

Srenger:
Just wanted to say you did an excellent job with the Hopper DEMO on YouTube. I had no idea that E* was that fast. I am sure D* has the software guys working overtime as our sets snailed down after the new HDUI software upgrade. 

Competition and options are always good for the consumer.


----------



## MysteryMan

Laxguy said:


> Since you have no information in your Profile, I conclude you are a Dish sub. True?
> And you have posted here before under another name. True?
> 
> Have you ever actually been a DIRECTV® subscriber?


Good question.


----------



## lparsons21

Laxguy said:


> Since you have no information in your Profile, I conclude you are a Dish sub. True?
> And you have posted here before under another name. True?
> 
> Have you ever actually been a DIRECTV® subscriber?


I think he has indicated that he recently switched from D* to E* in some past postings.


----------



## sacflies

sregener said:


> I've posted a video I took this morning of Dish Network's Hopper so those of you without one can see what you're missing.


Nice. Thanks for posting the video. I have been on the fence about switching to Dish and the Hopper for a few weeks now. Your video pushed me a bit closer to making the move. My D* HD receivers are just not cutting it. I have one question...can you create channel lists to scale down the number of channels like you can do with D*? Where each person in the house could have their own channel list?


----------



## sregener

Laxguy said:


> Since you have no information in your Profile, I conclude you are a Dish sub. True?
> And you have posted here before under another name. True?
> 
> Have you ever actually been a DIRECTV® subscriber?


I understand your reaction. When faced with incontrovertible facts (video evidence), all that's left is to attack the messenger.

I have not posted here before under any other name.

I am including a picture of my HR22-100 return shipment box, taken now on my kitchen counter. Note the date on the shipping label. I cancelled DirecTV service this previous Saturday, April 21st, the same day Dish came out and installed my Hopper. I first subscribed to DirecTV in 1995, stuck with them until 2007, took a few years off from pay service altogether, and then went back to DirecTV in January of 2010. My first HR22 died within six months (hard drive died, and I don't blame DirecTV for that one.) The second one is the one you can't see in the picture because the box is sealed. I had never been a Dish customer before Saturday, April 21st, 2012.


----------



## sregener

RAD said:


> Actually I just tried the same things that you showed on a HR24-500 in my office and except for the channel change speed, which sometimes is very slow, I'm not seeing that big of a difference, maybe .5 to 1 second difference, if any.


That would be quite impressive, especially if you could do all that quickly right at startup. My HR22-100 was a real dog - couldn't bring up the guide, change channels, or select a program to start playback for a good 10 seconds minimum after power-up. There was always a slight hiccup in 30-second skip - probably less than .5 second, but not the instant skip of the Hopper.

If I could have gotten a guarantee from DirecTV that an HR24 would come as a replacement receiver, I might have given them a chance. Though another poster is indicating he has the same problems with his HR24 that I had with my HR22 when it came to responding to remote control presses. There were times I would mash a button 5 or 6 times and nothing would happen. Other times, it was quite quick. But I'll never know now because DirecTV makes no promises about model numbers.


----------



## Laxguy

Thanks for the prompt and straightforward reply. Your idea of an "attack" and mine are surely different. I did not intend any malevolence.


----------



## sregener

sacflies said:


> Nice. Thanks for posting the video. I have been on the fence about switching to Dish and the Hopper for a few weeks now. Your video pushed me a bit closer to making the move. My D* HD receivers are just not cutting it. I have one question...can you create channel lists to scale down the number of channels like you can do with D*? Where each person in the house could have their own channel list?


According to Chapter 5 of the Hopper manual, pages 35-38, you can create 4 favorite channel lists. I haven't done it yet.


----------



## billsharpe

MysteryMan said:


> Can software effect a receiver's performance? Yes. But so can a lot of other factors (receiver settings, flourescent lighting, HDTV backlighting, faulty remote commander, hook ups with other equipment like a A/V receiver, limited available space on the receiver's hard drive, ect.). Better to look for cause instead of blame. If your that frustrated then switch to Fios and *let us know if the grass is greener.*


I switched to FiOS last October and the grass is indeed greener.


----------



## RAD

RAD said:


> Actually I just tried the same things that you showed on a HR24-500 in my office and except for the channel change speed, which sometimes is very slow, I'm not seeing that big of a difference, maybe .5 to 1 second difference, if any.





lparsons21 said:


> And I just tried all those things on 2 of my HR24-500s and got the usual somewhat slower operation and of course, the more prevalent remote ignoring issue. Hard to have to put up with both a somewhat slower overall operation (though acceptable) AND the darned remote response which is just greatly aggravating!


OK, I decided to get out my iPhone and use the clock app to measure the times between his Hopper and my HR24-500, which BTW was part of the early testing program so I've had it for over 26 months now.

- Power On, Hopper= 4.0 seconds, HR24-500= 5.4 seconds
- Guide, Hopper= 2.4 seconds, HR24-500= 1.7 seconds
- Scoll guide 10x, Hopper=5.9 seconds, HR24-500= 7.4 seconds
- Playlist, Hopper= 2.0 seconds (which is only the recordings on his Hopper, HR24-500= 3.1 seconds (which is the playlist for local + 5 other HR DVR's via WHDVR)
- Start Play, Hopper= 3.7 seconds, HR24-500=2.4 seconds for local recording, 5.2 seconds for WHDVR recording
Change Channel, Hopper=2.9 seconds, HR24-500= 3.8 seconds

So from what I see is the Hopper is quicker but IMHO not as blazing fast compared to the HR24-500 as some try to make it sound like.


----------



## lparsons21

I'd be tickled pink if any of my 3 HR24s got those response times too! 

Unfortunately, that isn't the case.  But even the relatively slower speed would be acceptable if it just didn't ignore the remote all too often.


----------



## RAD

lparsons21 said:


> I'd be tickled pink if any of my 3 HR24s got those response times too!
> 
> Unfortunately, that isn't the case.  But even the relatively slower speed would be acceptable if it just didn't ignore the remote all too often.


I know you've probably tried this already, but if running in IR mode have your tried RF or if in RF mode tried IR?


----------



## Laxguy

So, Lloyd, what times do you get?


----------



## Rich

Shades228 said:


> There could be many factors in environments that can change the experience.


True, that's probably why all these guys posting about slow HRs don't state which HRs they have that are "slow". The only problems I see are related to the GUI and they've already fixed the major problem I had, the "exploding GUI".

They're never gonna make the series 21 HRs much faster than they are now.

But I keep seeing posts about doing away with the 20-700s and I've got eight of them, five with 2TB drives internally and three with the same drives externally and they are almost as fast as the three 24s I have. I CAN make side by side comparisons and there is not enough difference in the speed of any function to bother me. It's not the age, it's the specific HR models that are (ambiguously) slow.

Rich


----------



## lparsons21

Laxguy said:


> So, Lloyd, what times do you get?


When it doesn't ignore the remote? 

I get about 8 seconds for nearly any function except for guide scrolling, which is quick as a bunny.

But coming out of viewing a recorded event takes on average 20-25 seconds, which doesn't seem to vary outside those numbers regardless of whether it is a local recording or coming through MRV. Frankly that surprises me as I would expect a bit of lag from the 'remote' dvr.


----------



## lparsons21

RAD said:


> I know you've probably tried this already, but if running in IR mode have your tried RF or if in RF mode tried IR?


Yep, in fact I use both on a recurring basis.

My main HR is controlled via RF, the one stacked on top of it is controlled by IR. The only thing that is really quick is list scrolling. Oddly, I can use the 'remote' on my iPad and get better response. Never seems to ignore that at all.

I just never think to use the iPad until after my frustration level is up a bit! 

And the iPad isn't all that handy for that use as it goes to sleep pretty quickly. Meaning I have to 
1. wake it up
2. login
3. use remote

each and every time I could use it. And since it won't also control the volume of the AV system, I then have to grab a different remote for that.


----------



## Rich

sregener said:


> This is exactly the problem: This type of argument is a smokescreen around the real issue.
> 
> Show me a provider that has a DVR that has problems with basic functionality like responding to remote control button presses, scrolling through the guide or bringing up a list of recorded programs. There's only one: DirecTV.


Get yourself a decent HR and you won't have those problems. I never miss channel changes on the Guide, my numbers come out as I hit them. The only mistakes I see are those I cause. The wait you see when bringing up the Playlist can be directly attributed to the HD GUI and, like the "exploding GUI" issue, I'm sure that will be fixed. As for scrolling thru the guide, my HRs scroll thru it too fast. Going forward in time on the Guide is incredibly fast, so fast that I wish it could be slowed down at times.



> Yes, other DVRs from other providers have problems, but changing channels quickly and reliably isn't one of them. Having an unresponsive system where key presses are simply ignored is not one of them. *Taking 15 seconds to bring up a list of recorded programs is not one of them.*


Again, that can be directly attributed to the HD GUI and will be fixed.

Rich


----------



## RAD

lparsons21 said:


> Yep, in fact I use both on a recurring basis.
> 
> My main HR is controlled via RF, the one stacked on top of it is controlled by IR. The only thing that is really quick is list scrolling. Oddly, I can use the 'remote' on my iPad and get better response. Never seems to ignore that at all.
> 
> I just never think to use the iPad until after my frustration level is up a bit!
> 
> And the iPad isn't all that handy for that use as it goes to sleep pretty quickly. Meaning I have to
> 1. wake it up
> 2. login
> 3. use remote
> 
> each and every time I could use it. And since it won't also control the volume of the AV system, I then have to grab a different remote for that.


Does your sons HR24 also have the same issue? Seem strange that using the iPad would have a better response then the remotes, but I don't write the code in these things.


----------



## sigma1914

lparsons21 said:


> ...Oddly, I can use the 'remote' on my iPad and get better response. Never seems to ignore that at all.
> 
> I just never think to use the iPad until after my frustration level is up a bit!
> 
> And the iPad isn't all that handy for that use as it goes to sleep pretty quickly. Meaning I have to
> 1. wake it up
> 2. login
> 3. use remote
> 
> each and every time I could use it. And since it won't also control the volume of the AV system, I then have to grab a different remote for that.


I use my laptop to control everything & it's fast. I use a browser app at http://waltzremote.com/ and also a device called RedEye remote ( http://thinkflood.com/products/redeye/ ) which can run on any browser and even iDevices or Android. RedEye controls all AV equipment.


----------



## Laxguy

lparsons21 said:


> When it doesn't ignore the remote?
> 
> I get about 8 seconds for nearly any function except for guide scrolling, which is quick as a bunny.
> 
> But coming out of viewing a recorded event takes on average 20-25 seconds, which doesn't seem to vary outside those numbers regardless of whether it is a local recording or coming through MRV. Frankly that surprises me as I would expect a bit of lag from the 'remote' dvr.


Wow! Those times are way in excess of even my HR20! Waaaaay! I am guessing you've tried all the normal fixes, and that something else is causing this intolerable situation. What happens with one HR if you disconnect the others? (Say by unplugging them for a bit to test.)


----------



## AlanSaysYo

bman3333 said:


> Certainly a lively discussion and I appreciate the different perspectives provided. As a computer gamer, I became obsessed with overclocking and pushing the most fps on the games I played. As anyone who also enjoyed benchmarking games for the sheer joy of seeing a smother frame rate at a higher res can tell you, no software can substitute for updated hardware when dealing with graphics. This is why AMD/ATI and Nvidia release newer hardware every 9 months! I have the utmost respect for DirecTV's UI programmers, but management expects them to make software for hardware that ranges in age from state of the art to more than 10 years old! How can they troubleshoot the user experience with such a range of hardware?


I understand where you're coming from with those comments and agree to a point. I see it the same as the way Apple treats iOS updates on their devices - after a certain point, they stop supporting older devices, and the oldest supported device runs considerably slower than the newest.

What doesn't make sense from that explanation, though, is why any HR24 would be running sluggishly with the newest national release. If the new software is optimized for the best hardware, then why are there sporadic instances of the newest hardware running horribly? If there were uniform results across the same hardware models, I would agree. For example if all HR20s changed channels at 6 seconds, all HR21s changed channels at 5 seconds, etc.

I think the difference here is that there is some sort of fault in programming or design causing the wheels to fall off under unknown (to us) conditions on any of the hardware models.

Compared to all the possible processor-memory-video card combos out there, DirecTV has quite a bit of information to work with when testing software on receiver hardware. They have a very short list of hardware models, and in theory should be able to account for all possible hardware configurations (except the unsupported eSATA addon drives).

I certainly appreciate the idea, but I wouldn't let DirecTV off the hook that easily.


----------



## lparsons21

RAD said:


> Does your sons HR24 also have the same issue? Seem strange that using the iPad would have a better response then the remotes, but I don't write the code in these things.


My testing of his unit is sporadic, but it seems about the same as my 2 units.

But let's carry on with the iPad control.

Not only does it result in perfect response to every keystroke, all the speed issues disappear. Which leads me to think that the speed issue isn't a speed of operation issue as much as it is a response to the remote issue. IOW, a different result than I would expect.

Basically it seems that not only does the HR ignore the remote all too often, it doesn't even respond quickly to it when it does respond at all.

Freaking weird!

As a slightly OT question for this thread. I thought the DirecTV app for the iPad allowed for playing recorded shows on the iPad at one time. Doesn't seem to do that now. Am I misremembering?


----------



## lparsons21

sigma1914 said:


> I use my laptop to control everything & it's fast. I use a browser app at http://waltzremote.com/ and also a device called RedEye remote ( http://thinkflood.com/products/redeye/ ) which can run on any browser and even iDevices or Android. RedEye controls all AV equipment.


Thanks for the info and links. Interesting.


----------



## sacflies

sregener said:


> According to Chapter 5 of the Hopper manual, pages 35-38, you can create 4 favorite channel lists. I haven't done it yet.


Thx for the reply.


----------



## sregener

RAD said:


> So from what I see is the Hopper is quicker but IMHO not as blazing fast compared to the HR24-500 as some try to make it sound like.


I never had the pleasure of owning an HR24. I was stuck with an HR22-100 for my entire contract period. It was slow from the first day I got it, but over the last few months, it went to new levels of frustration for me. Compared to the times I'd get for my HR22-100, the Hopper is blazing fast.

You left one out: how long does it take your HR24 to skip 30 seconds forward 16x?


----------



## RAD

lparsons21 said:


> My testing of his unit is sporadic, but it seems about the same as my 2 units.
> 
> But let's carry on with the iPad control.
> 
> Not only does it result in perfect response to every keystroke, all the speed issues disappear. Which leads me to think that the speed issue isn't a speed of operation issue as much as it is a response to the remote issue. IOW, a different result than I would expect.
> 
> Basically it seems that not only does the HR ignore the remote all too often, it doesn't even respond quickly to it when it does respond at all.
> 
> Freaking weird!
> 
> As a slightly OT question for this thread. I thought the DirecTV app for the iPad allowed for playing recorded shows on the iPad at one time. Doesn't seem to do that now. Am I misremembering?


Nope, the iPad never allowed for that, you can watch some selected live channels when your on the same home network with your receivers but that's it.

Yea, really strange with your remote issues, all I can think of is there's interferrence, but why effect both IR and RF, or your STB's are just FUBAR, maybe a bad batch. For the HR24 you're using in IR mode, what happens if you put the remote right in front of the IR window on the HR24, same or better?


----------



## sacflies

I just used one of my HR23's for the first time today and it seems a bit more snappy. Maybe there was some sort of update overnight. It is scrolling thru the guide very smoothly and quickly today...hadn't seen that before. And it seems to be doing basic functions like changing channels a bit quicker. The Guide and List functions seem to be popping up a bit quicker as well. Maybe this is temporary and it may go back to its slow and sluggish ways soon, but I do see some improvement today. Is there a glimmer of hope here?


----------



## RAD

sregener said:


> You left one out: how long does it take your HR24 to skip 30 seconds forward 16x?


8.4 seconds for pressing 30 skip 16 times on a local recording, 9.2 seconds when doing it for a remote WHDVR recording from a HR24-100. Looks like 7.2 seconds for the skip on your Hopper.


----------



## Daniel

I'll add to the chorus, the grass is greener with the Hopper. I had two HR21 and an R16 and my whole family was fed up with the slow response times and the ignore remote problem. Switched to a 2 Hopper and 2 Joey system and everything is great. 

Does the Hopper have issues? Sure, like any new product, but not to the point that I want to throw them out the window like I wanted to with the HR21s.

Hell, this morning I even got kudos from the wife for making the switch and trust me, I don't get kudos often!


----------



## RAD

sacflies said:


> I just used one of my HR23's for the first time today and it seems a bit more snappy. Maybe there was some sort of update overnight. It is scrolling thru the guide very smoothly and quickly today...hadn't seen that before. And it seems to be doing basic functions like changing channels a bit quicker. The Guide and List functions seem to be popping up a bit quicker as well. Maybe this is temporary and it may go back to its slow and sluggish ways soon, but I do see some improvement today. Is there a glimmer of hope here?


According to http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=204388 it looks like there is a new release that's starting to roll out, check to see if you got 5C8.


----------



## lparsons21

RAD said:


> Nope, the iPad never allowed for that, you can watch some selected live channels when your on the same home network with your receivers but that's it.
> 
> Yea, really strange with your remote issues, all I can think of is there's interferrence, but why effect both IR and RF, or your STB's are just FUBAR, maybe a bad batch. For the HR24 you're using in IR mode, what happens if you put the remote right in front of the IR window on the HR24, same or better?


Tried as you suggested. No difference either at the HR or across the room.

With the iPad, same unit is very responsive.

As to the watching on iPad, I must be remembering the Dish iPad app that did that. Really neat for night watching in bed.


----------



## sigma1914

lparsons21 said:


> Thanks for the info and links. Interesting.


The waltz site is great because you don't need to keep signed into the DirecTV app. and it's fast.

As for the RedEye...It's a great device, but can take awhile to tweak. It's ip controlled and like a small remote you control with another device.


----------



## lparsons21

sigma1914 said:


> The waltz site is great because you don't need to keep signed into the DirecTV app. and it's fast.
> 
> As for the RedEye...It's a great device, but can take awhile to tweak. It's ip controlled and like a small remote you control with another device.


I probably won't use either as I'm getting quite adept at juggling these days! 

Now I think I'll go play that behemoth you see in my avatar. It has been crying for me to come tickle it's ivories!! :lol:


----------



## sacflies

RAD said:


> According to http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=204388 it looks like there is a new release that's starting to roll out, check to see if you got 5C8.


Well, it is showing "0x59f, Wed 3/7, 3:55a".

Maybe it is just having a good day!


----------



## sunking

AlanSaysYo said:


> I understand where you're coming from with those comments and agree to a point. I see it the same as the way Apple treats iOS updates on their devices - after a certain point, they stop supporting older devices, and the oldest supported device runs considerably slower than the newest.


Apple doesn't charge you a lease fee use their antiquated, under powered products. In the real world things depreciate in value to reflect their loss in value. In the Directv world I pay the same lease fee on a crappy 5 year old dvr as someone with a brand new one.


----------



## lparsons21

sunking said:


> Apple doesn't charge you a lease fee use their antiquated, under powered products. In the real world things depreciate in value to reflect their loss in value. In the Directv world I pay the same lease fee on a crappy 5 year old dvr as someone with a brand new one.


While that is true for D*, it is also just as true for E* and all the cable providers too.


----------



## Laxguy

lparsons21 said:


> I probably won't use either as I'm getting quite adept at juggling these days!
> 
> Now I think I'll go play that behemoth you see in my avatar. It has been crying for me to come tickle it's ivories!! :lol:


Nice! How 'bout a bigger photo?

Also, are you inclined to test a bit? I wrote earlier:

Wow! Those times are way in excess of even my HR20! Waaaaay! I am guessing you've tried all the normal fixes, and that something else is causing this intolerable situation. *What happens with one HR if you disconnect the others?* (Say by unplugging them for a bit to test.)
__________________


----------



## gordon1fan

Richierich said:


> I can tell you that for certain that Directv is doing everything they can to Fix this Problem and I can't tell you who my Sources are but they both Assure me that the next Release should help alleviate the Speed Problems.
> 
> It may not be a Perfect Fix and may need a couple of more tweeks but it should help a lot of people.
> 
> I agree with you that Directv should change their Business Model and Replace every customer's old DVR when they complain that they have a problem as I have been told by Ellen Filipiak's Office (she is Vice President in charge of Customer Service) that they are very much aware of the problem and it will be fixed.
> 
> I think they should Replace all Old HR20s, HR21s, HR22s, HR23s with HR24s and Be Done With The Problem.
> 
> That is what I would do if I were President/CEO!!!


I had DIRECTV to change my old HR21-100. They told me that DIRECTV was retiring the 20 and 21 receivers, and that I would be getting a HR24. FedEx truck ran two days later and guess what, I got a HR21-700. 

I got on the phone with DIRECTV and ask to talk to customers retention. I talk them into leasing me a DIRECTV TiVo at a reduced price, of cause I had to agree to a two year contract.


----------



## sunking

lparsons21 said:


> While that is true for D*, it is also just as true for E* and all the cable providers too.


Not sure what that has to do with wanting to throw a directv remote through the wall in frustration and paying a monthly fee for the privilege. The here is not paying a fee, but paying a fee for hardware that they know is not up to doing the job adequately. Oh, and on top of it being told everything A-OK


----------



## sregener

"RAD" said:


> 8.4 seconds for pressing 30 skip 16 times on a local recording, 9.2 seconds when doing it for a remote WHDVR recording from a HR24-100. Looks like 7.2 seconds for the skip on your Hopper.


From the sounds of it, some of you have quite good performance from your DirecTV DVRs. That was not my experience. Since you truly are getting Hopper-like performance, I could understand your satisfaction.

What has been frustrating to me is those who deny that there is a problem because their DVR works fine. Something odd is broken, and after waiting over two years for it to be fixed, always promised in the next release, I gave up. I wish I had taken a video of how slow my DirecTV receiver was. No one should have to put up with that kind of performance. But it was a real problem, not a perceived one, and my Hopper is so much faster I can hardly believe it. To call the difference subtle would be a terrible lie.

If DirecTV would have admitted to the problem and promised me something better, I might have stuck around. But nothing is more insulting than asking for a replacement and getting another horrible box. DirecTV needs to change their policy of ignorance when it comes to DVR models.


----------



## sigma1914

There was definitely a speed issue on Scoreguide channels and that was bad. Guide & List were taking like 10 seconds on sports channels.


----------



## RAD

sigma1914 said:


> There was definitely a speed issue on Scoreguide channels and that was bad. Guide & List were taking like 10 seconds on sports channels.


Or the be on a ScoreGuide channel and then use TVapps, that would also cause performance to go in the dumper which is still there, at least on the box I just tried it on, HR24-500.


----------



## 242424

sregener said:


> I've posted a video I took this morning of Dish Network's Hopper so those of you without one can see what you're missing.


Wow! On my HR-20 I have to start punching in the channel number on Wed. if I want to watch a different channel on Friday.


----------



## Richierich

sacflies said:


> I just used one of my HR23's for the first time today and it seems a bit more snappy. Maybe there was some sort of update overnight.


Did you go to Settings and Check to see when it was last Updated?


----------



## AlanSaysYo

sunking said:


> Apple doesn't charge you a lease fee use their antiquated, under powered products. In the real world things depreciate in value to reflect their loss in value. In the Directv world I pay the same lease fee on a crappy 5 year old dvr as someone with a brand new one.


That was more of a comment on how I don't think the age of the hardware is an issue regarding the receiver slowness, at least not on the surface.

I don't disagree with you about two customers paying the same price for equipment even though those pieces of equipment can vary wildly in performance. I've always been ticked that some DirecTV DVRs have much larger hard drives than others, and you can't choose the one you get short of buying it yourself.


----------



## lparsons21

Laxguy said:


> Nice! How 'bout a bigger photo?
> 
> Also, are you inclined to test a bit? I wrote earlier:
> 
> Wow! Those times are way in excess of even my HR20! Waaaaay! I am guessing you've tried all the normal fixes, and that something else is causing this intolerable situation. *What happens with one HR if you disconnect the others?* (Say by unplugging them for a bit to test.)
> __________________


If you want to take a real look at that model (and others), try http://lowreyforum.com and select brochures. Mine is the Palladium.

At the moment I'm not inclined to test any more. But give it a day and I probably will be. I have disconnected before with no change and doubt it will change things now. But what the hell...


----------



## lparsons21

sunking said:


> Not sure what that has to do with wanting to throw a directv remote through the wall in frustration and paying a monthly fee for the privilege. The here is not paying a fee, but paying a fee for hardware that they know is not up to doing the job adequately. Oh, and on top of it being told everything A-OK


Last time I got to that level of frustration was with an HR21. The solution was a Vip722k from Dish for a couple years!

Hope that helps!


----------



## sacflies

Richierich said:


> Did you go to Settings and Check to see when it was last Updated?


Yes...see post 563.


----------



## RACJ2

sregener said:


> I've posted a video I took this morning of Dish Network's Hopper so those of you without one can see what you're missing.


Yes I can see that the menus and channel changes are faster then my HR22, not much faster then my HR34, and not enough of a difference to make me want to switch. If I turned native off, it would be even closer. Unless I spent most of my time changing channels, watching guides and looking through menus, its not that important. I do those functions about 5% of the time that I'm watching TV. And if I had some of the issues others are experiencing, I might feel different.

On the flip side, as you mentioned, I would lose NHL ST, NHL CI with 90% of the games in HD, less local channels in HD in my area, mix channels, golf and tennis event coverage, etc. And since 95% of the time I watching something, having the programming I enjoy watching is what's most important to me.

It sounds like speed of menus and channel changes is most important to you, so we are both happy with what we have. The one feature I actually do like on the Hopper is the PTAT, since we watch a lot of network programming. Time Warner has a feature somewhat similar to that and I liked it as well. Enjoy! (And please do us a favor and don't be one of the posters who comes back here to tell us how bad DIRECTV is)


----------



## davidjplatt

MysteryMan said:


> Can software effect a receiver's performance? Yes. But so can a lot of other factors (receiver settings, flourescent lighting, HDTV backlighting, faulty remote commander, hook ups with other equipment like a A/V receiver, limited available space on the receiver's hard drive, ect.). Better to look for cause instead of blame. If your that frustrated then switch to Fios and let us know if the grass is greener.


Give me a break. I don't have an A/V receiver in the mix on my family room setup. It's a 42" 1080p HDTV directly connected to the HR20-100 with an HDMI cable. DirecTV went cheap on the CPU and memory on these DVRs and they keep adding feature after feature without adding processing power and memory - that's called degradation and should have been expected by DirecTV.

I can pick up any of three RC64R remotes or an MX-700 (all with fresh batteries), aim them directly at the IR eye and it can take minutes for the unit to respond... or not. What it depends on, I'm not sure. Many times it's recording two programs at the same time and responds immediately. Other times it's basically idle and doesn't respond. It's frustrating to try to go to Bravo HD by hitting 237 on the remote and seeing "2" pop up at the top of the screen, then "Channel Not Available" and then "37" pop up and then "Channel Not Available" or entering "237" not seeing any response for a minute or two, entering "237" again and then seeing "2372" pop up and "Channel Not Available" and then seeing "37" pop up and yet another "Channel Not Available". Sometimes I will display the guide and then hit Exit and it takes 3 or 4 minutes for normal video to be restored.

And the "HDGUI" is not "HD". It adds almost nothing over the original GUI - just some icons. The original guide showed 2 hours of programming and 6 channels - same as the new "HD GUI". And I just hit the "Guide" button on the remote - 17 seconds to bring up the guide.

And I'm pretty sure the "grass is greener" for FiOS. My brother had DirecTV when it was USSB and DirecTV. He had a single LNB dish with a Sony receiver and an RF remote. He graduated up through HD DVRs and HD receivers. He had FiOS for phone and internet and DirecTV for TV. He had 5/2 internet. He switched to FiOS at a savings of $85 per month (including all of the premium channels) and got 25/25 internet and free WiFi at hotspots. The picture quality on SD channels is far superior, the HD is better and the DVR has functioned flawlessly and multi room functionality has worked perfectly for him.

They are going to give me a mutli room DVR free for a year, $8 for an HD receiver and then I will get a Ceton tuner with 4 tuners for a $3.99/month cable card rental. And the Ceton tuner will let me assign two tuners to one PC and two to another. When the free period on the DVR expires I'll get a second Ceton tuner and have 8 tuners for $8 per month. The DirecTV DVR fee is only $1 less plus the $6 per additional outlet fee. The first year it will cost me $12 for four TVs with a DVR, STB and PC. The second year it will drop to $8 for four TVs (I already have 2 XBox 360s that can be used to watch TV from the PC with the Ceton cards).

And I would end up saving $75 per month overall with the bundle price. Even after the 24 month discounts expire I would be paying less than DirecTV/Vonage/FiOS Internet. And I'll get more premiums, 35/35 internet and better phone service than Vonage. AND NO MORE RAIN FADES!!!!!!


----------



## sregener

RACJ2 said:


> Unless I spent most of my time changing channels, watching guides and looking through menus, its not that important. I do those functions about 5% of the time that I'm watching TV. And if I had some of the issues others are experiencing, I might feel different.
> 
> On the flip side, as you mentioned, I would lose NHL ST, NHL CI with 90% of the games in HD, less local channels in HD in my area, mix channels, golf and tennis event coverage, etc. And since 95% of the time I watching something, having the programming I enjoy watching is what's most important to me.


I've posted this before, but the big problem for me is how unresponsive the DVR was at times. I would often struggle to change a channel or start a program for my young children when there would be something on the screen I don't exactly want my kids seeing until they're much older - like A Baby Story on TLC. 20-30 seconds of that is way too much, and that's often what it would take to get their program going. So responsiveness is important to me. And hitting the buttons five or six times over 10 seconds and getting absolutely no response was beyond frustrating.

But programming is also important, and getting BBC America and The Hub in HD were both factors in switching. I pored over the channel lists for both providers and found that I'd be losing a lot of channels I never watch and gaining quite a few movie channels that I could end up watching. My net price difference after the promotional period is $1 less. My overall satisfaction is higher.

If Dish doesn't have the programming you want and need, then you'll put up with whatever crappy DVR software DirecTV gives you. Which is kind of what this thread is all about...


----------



## MysteryMan

davidjplatt said:


> Give me a break. I don't have an A/V receiver in the mix on my family room setup. It's a 42" 1080p HDTV directly connected to the HR20-100 with an HDMI cable. DirecTV went cheap on the CPU and memory on these DVRs and they keep adding feature after feature without adding processing power and memory - that's called degradation and should have been expected by DirecTV.
> 
> I can pick up any of three RC64R remotes or an MX-700 (all with fresh batteries), aim them directly at the IR eye and it can take minutes for the unit to respond... or not. What it depends on, I'm not sure. Many times it's recording two programs at the same time and responds immediately. Other times it's basically idle and doesn't respond. It's frustrating to try to go to Bravo HD by hitting 237 on the remote and seeing "2" pop up at the top of the screen, then "Channel Not Available" and then "37" pop up and then "Channel Not Available" or entering "237" not seeing any response for a minute or two, entering "237" again and then seeing "2372" pop up and "Channel Not Available" and then seeing "37" pop up and yet another "Channel Not Available". Sometimes I will display the guide and then hit Exit and it takes 3 or 4 minutes for normal video to be restored.
> 
> And the "HDGUI" is not "HD". It adds almost nothing over the original GUI - just some icons. The original guide showed 2 hours of programming and 6 channels - same as the new "HD GUI". And I just hit the "Guide" button on the remote - 17 seconds to bring up the guide.
> 
> And I'm pretty sure the "grass is greener" for FiOS. My brother had DirecTV when it was USSB and DirecTV. He had a single LNB dish with a Sony receiver and an RF remote. He graduated up through HD DVRs and HD receivers. He had FiOS for phone and internet and DirecTV for TV. He had 5/2 internet. He switched to FiOS at a savings of $85 per month (including all of the premium channels) and got 25/25 internet and free WiFi at hotspots. The picture quality on SD channels is far superior, the HD is better and the DVR has functioned flawlessly and multi room functionality has worked perfectly for him.
> 
> They are going to give me a mutli room DVR free for a year, $8 for an HD receiver and then I will get a Ceton tuner with 4 tuners for a $3.99/month cable card rental. And the Ceton tuner will let me assign two tuners to one PC and two to another. When the free period on the DVR expires I'll get a second Ceton tuner and have 8 tuners for $8 per month. The DirecTV DVR fee is only $1 less plus the $6 per additional outlet fee. The first year it will cost me $12 for four TVs with a DVR, STB and PC. The second year it will drop to $8 for four TVs (I already have 2 XBox 360s that can be used to watch TV from the PC with the Ceton cards).
> 
> And I would end up saving $75 per month overall with the bundle price. Even after the 24 month discounts expire I would be paying less than DirecTV/Vonage/FiOS Internet. And I'll get more premiums, 35/35 internet and better phone service than Vonage. AND NO MORE RAIN FADES!!!!!!


Obviously satellite TV is not for you. And there is nothing wrong with saving money. But no provider is issue free. I use Time Warner for internet service. Works great unless their crews are working on the lines "unannounced" and interupting dervice or a motorist or storm takes down the lines. I have far less rain fade issues with DirecTV then the afore mentioned issues with cable service.


----------



## davidjplatt

MysteryMan said:


> Obviously satellite TV is not for you.


Are you kidding? It has been for 15 years. I moved into my current home over 12 years ago and had DirecTV move the service to my new home. I had the first DirecTV TiVo (Sony SAT-T60) when it only used one tuner. I've been recommending DirecTV to friends and co-workers for years - up until recently.



MysteryMan said:


> And there is nothing wrong with saving money. But no provider is issue free. I use Time Warner for internet service. Works great unless their crews are working on the lines "unannounced" and interupting dervice or a motorist or storm takes down the lines. I have far less rain fade issues with DirecTV then the afore mentioned issues with cable service.


Well I have had FiOS for over 5 years for internet and have had two outages of under an hour with internet service - and those issues would not have brought down TV service. Verizon crews don't work on lines "unannounced". We have underground utilties where I live so a motorist can't take the lines down. And my brother has had FiOS TV since last fall - not one issue at all (and believe me, I would have heard of minor problems from him).

You have to understand that not everyone has the "wonderful experience" you are evidently having with DirecTV. I didn't have issues with my DVRs until about a year ago. I didn't have missed recordings or the like until the HDGUI rolled out. Now I miss about one recording a week with no advance warning. I have to reboot DVRs on a weekly basis to fix playback issues with MRV, to temporarily get around the slowness issue or to get a DVR to respond to the remote control at all.

The point is that DirecTV has added feature after feature after feature to the DVRs and not increased their CPU power or memory... and that's asking for problems.


----------



## MysteryMan

davidjplatt said:


> Are you kidding? It has been for 15 years. I moved into my current home over 12 years ago and had DirecTV move the service to my new home. I had the first DirecTV TiVo (Sony SAT-T60) when it only used one tuner. I've been recommending DirecTV to friends and co-workers for years - up until recently.
> 
> Well I have had FiOS for over 5 years for internet and have had two outages of under an hour with internet service - and those issues would not have brought down TV service. Verizon crews don't work on lines "unannounced". We have underground utilties where I live so a motorist can't take the lines down. And my brother has had FiOS TV for since last fall - not one issue at all (and believe me, I would have heard of minor problems from him).
> 
> You have to understand that not everyone has the "wonderful experience" you are evidently having with DirecTV. I didn't have issues with my DVRs until about a year ago. I didn't have missed recordings or the like until the HDGUI rolled out. Now I miss about one recording a week with no advance warning. I have to reboot DVRs on a weekly basis to fix playback issues with MRV, to temporarily get around the slowness issue or to get a DVR to respond to the remote control at all.
> 
> The point is that DirecTV has added feature after feature after feature to the DVRs and not increased their CPU power or memory... and that's asking for problems.


While I never doubt the issues you and others are having with your receivers those of you who are fail to understand not everyone is having the same issues. I'm sure if that were the case there would be reports of a mass exodus of DirecTV customers because of their dissatisfaction with DirecTV's equipment and service.


----------



## Richierich

MysteryMan said:


> While I never doubt the issues you and others are having with your receivers those of you who are fail to understand not everyone is having the same issues. I'm sure if that were the case there would be reports of a mass exodus of DirecTV customers because of their dissatisfaction with DirecTV's equipment and service.


I don't have any Speed Problems or Channel Changing Problems due to Slowness of the CPU Processing the IR or RF Commands (I do have slow channel changing due to the HDMI Handshake) and the only difference is that I Replaced the Internal Hard Drive on my Owned HR24-500s and my New Drive is Faster (7200 RPM) and has a Larger Cache so maybe that helps Reduce the amount of time for Paging which Frees up the CPU to do other Tasks.

I am running the same Software as everyone else so maybe the Drive helps alleviate the problems.


----------



## lparsons21

MysteryMan said:


> While I never doubt the issues you and others are having with your receivers those of you who are fail to understand not everyone is having the same issues. I'm sure if that were the case there would be reports of a mass exodus of DirecTV customers because of their dissatisfaction with DirecTV's equipment and service.


You'd have to see much worse equipment performance issues to see a mass exodus from any provider. Human nature makes us not want to change.

Friends of mine that have D* HRs in their home have noted the problems, but they either watch little TV or just don't care enough to make any changes. They get the channels they want at a price they are comfortable with and the operational glitches aren't seen as all that big a deal to them. Most of them have one DVR and 1 or 2 receivers, and most don't even have MRV on their accounts.

And for all its warts, the HRs are hands down better than anything the sole cable company here provides by a very long shot, and they remember that too. So for them, D*'s stuff works well enough to not make them want to change.

But it doesn't mean they aren't seeing the same things. I've been to their homes and they are, they just don't care.


----------



## Rich

AlanSaysYo said:


> That was more of a comment on how I don't think the age of the hardware is an issue regarding the receiver slowness, at least not on the surface.


You're right. Age isn't really a factor to any great degree. I have several Mexican HR20-700s (can't get them any older than that) that work fine with 2TB drives in/on them.



> I don't disagree with you about two customers paying the same price for equipment even though those pieces of equipment can vary wildly in performance.


Right again. Shows either a lack of quality control or lack of oversight by D* of the manufacturers of the equipment. And that's for the new equipment, one can only wonder about the purported "refurbishing" contractor. Obviously, nobody watches them.



> I've always been ticked that some DirecTV DVRs have much larger hard drives than others, and you can't choose the one you get short of buying it yourself.


That's easy to remedy, just stick a larger HDD on/in it. But, nothing you do will speed up the 21 series HRs to any great extent. And, of course, if you had nothing to compare a 21 series HR to, you'd be quite happy with it. If it was a 21-700.

Rich


----------



## sregener

RACJ2 said:


> Yes I can see that the menus and channel changes are faster then my HR22, not much faster then my HR34, and not enough of a difference to make me want to switch.


A day has passed, and nobody has posted a link to a video showing how fast their DirecTV HD DVR is doing the same things mine did. We have one poster's say-so on his timings. So here's my challenge: those of you with an H22, an H24 and an H34 post a video showing your receiver off, turning on, opening the guide, playing back a program, switching channels, and skipping 30-seconds 16x. I'd do it, but all I have left from my HR22-100 is a tracking number from the USPS...


----------



## sigma1914

sregener said:


> A day has passed, and nobody has posted a link to a video showing how fast their DirecTV HD DVR is doing the same things mine did. We have one poster's say-so on his timings. So here's my challenge: those of you with an H22, an H24 and an H34 post a video showing your receiver off, turning on, opening the guide, playing back a program, switching channels, and skipping 30-seconds 16x. I'd do it, but all I have left from my HR22-100 is a tracking number from the USPS...


A lot of us could, but is it fair if the box is on a different software version? Why would you even care since you moved on?


----------



## sregener

"sigma1914" said:


> A lot of us could, but is it fair if the box is on a different software version? Why would you even care since you moved on?


From my point of view, DirecTV's HD DVRs stink. Some people here shout loudly that we don't know what we're talking about, or we aren't specific enough, when we say our DVR is slow. I switched, and the only reason I'm still following this thread is to tell others how to stop the pain. Then the fanboys come here and claim their DirecTV DVRs are a fraction of a second slower than the Hopper. Good for them, but I'm skeptical - at least as skeptical as they are when told people have 20-30 second delays when their DVRs just stop responding. Show me the video, and then I'll be convinced that DirecTV can at least make some DVRs that aren't horribly broken. Or show me how slow your DVRs really are, and the fanboys will have to shut up.


----------



## sigma1914

sregener said:


> From my point of view, DirecTV's HD DVRs stink. Some people here shout loudly that we don't know what we're talking about, or we aren't specific enough, when we say our DVR is slow. I switched, and the only reason I'm still following this thread is to tell others how to stop the pain. Then the fanboys come here and claim their DirecTV DVRs are a fraction of a second slower than the Hopper. Good for them, but I'm skeptical - at least as skeptical as they are when told people have 20-30 second delays when their DVRs just stop responding. Show me the video, and then I'll be convinced that DirecTV can at least make some DVRs that aren't horribly broken. Or show me how slow your DVRs really are, and the fanboys will have to shut up.


In summary... for your entertainment and to encourage a divide between members. Video showing how fast my HR is will do nothing for you... you won't switch back, you won't move on, you won't stop, etc. This is like a ____ measuring contest.


----------



## RAD

IIRC for the HR24-500's First Look there was a YouTube video that showed performance.


----------



## RACJ2

sregener said:


> A day has passed, and nobody has posted a link to a video showing how fast their DirecTV HD DVR is doing the same things mine did. We have one poster's say-so on his timings. So here's my challenge: those of you with an H22, an H24 and an H34 post a video showing your receiver off, turning on, opening the guide, playing back a program, switching channels, and skipping 30-seconds 16x. I'd do it, but all I have left from my HR22-100 is a tracking number from the USPS...


Well, if you traveled like me and are only home from Friday evening to Sunday afternoon, its hard to do. So, I wasted time on my one full day home, to create a video of the HR22 performance and then uploaded it to YouTube and. I put my hand with the remote in front of the camera, so you doubting Thomas's couldn't say that I was not pressing the buttons at the same time that I said. So enjoy! [link] (Removed section showing my receiver ID)


----------



## TBoneit

RAD said:


> IIRC for the HR24-500's First Look there was a YouTube video that showed performance.


I'm afraid that won't cut it.

That was before the HDGUI that users are complaining about. What they want to see is how it runs with the latest software on it.

Darn good try however.

Cheers

Would you believe it, while I was posting this reply a new post came in with a link to current software.

Well that DVR was performing just fine. Makes me wonder what is going on with others since I have to believe that if they all performed like that no one would be complaining.


----------



## RAD

TBoneit said:


> I'm afraid that won't cut it.
> 
> That was before the HDGUI that users are complaining about. What they want to see is how it runs with the latest software on it.


Yea, didn't think about that. Guess that's what happens when you're trying to keep an eye on the grandkids at the park and respond to posts at the same time.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

RACJ2 said:


> Well, if you traveled like me and are only home from Friday evening to Sunday afternoon, its hard to do. So, I wasted time on my one full day home, to create a video of the HR22 performance and then uploaded it to YouTube and. I put my hand with the remote in front of the camera, so you doubting Thomas's couldn't say that I was not pressing the buttons at the same time that I said. So enjoy! [link]


Nice work. That's exactly what I'm seeing on my HR21 & HR22. My HR24 is probably twice as when scrolling through the Guide and Playlist and relatively close when changing channels.

Mike


----------



## Mike Bertelson

TBoneit said:


> I'm afraid that won't cut it.
> 
> That was before the HDGUI that users are complaining about. What they want to see is how it runs with the latest software on it.
> 
> Darn good try however.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Would you believe it, while I was posting this reply a new post came in with a link to current software.
> 
> *Well that DVR was performing just fine. Makes me wonder what is going on with others since I have to believe that if they all performed like that no one would be complaining*.


I've often wondered why my DVRs react similar to RACJ2's video and yet others are reporting 2-4 times longer, or even longer, for the same tasks. It's odd how the exact same hardware should have such a huge difference in performance.

There have been times where my HR21 will all of a sudden take a really long time to respond to the remote but that doesn't happen too often.

That video is definitely representative of how long those operations on my DVRs...except for the HR24 which is much faster.

BTW, my HR24-500 is still as fast as the video that was posted with the First Looks. Dang fast receiver and the one I use 99% of the time.

Mike


----------



## HoTat2

RACJ2 said:


> Well, if you traveled like me and are only home from Friday evening to Sunday afternoon, its hard to do. So, I wasted time on my one full day home, to create a video of the HR22 performance and then uploaded it to YouTube and. I put my hand with the remote in front of the camera, so you doubting Thomas's couldn't say that I was not pressing the buttons at the same time that I said. So enjoy! [link]


Thanks for the video;

And that's about the same speed my HR22-100 operates at. The HR21-200 in the kitchen is a tad quicker channel changing due to it being connected by component cables, thus no HDMI handshake to deal with. My sisters HR24-500 is even quicker than these two. I'll have to check my brother's HR22-100 and a new R22-100 he just added later while he's away at work on monday maybe.

Therefore I really don't know what to say about the recent spate of complaints about all these incredibly slow boxes. I mean I have had rare spells of slow downs on my HR22 and my brother has certainly experienced his share of quirky behavior on his own HR22 at times. But nothing to the degree of sluggishness complained about here recently in many threads lately.


----------



## lparsons21

RACJ2 said:


> Well, if you traveled like me and are only home from Friday evening to Sunday afternoon, its hard to do. So, I wasted time on my one full day home, to create a video of the HR22 performance and then uploaded it to YouTube and. I put my hand with the remote in front of the camera, so you doubting Thomas's couldn't say that I was not pressing the buttons at the same time that I said. So enjoy! [link]


Thanks for the video. Your HR22 is working faster than any of my 3 HR24-500s.

Do you have multiple units and use MRV?


----------



## RACJ2

lparsons21 said:


> Thanks for the video. Your HR22 is working faster than any of my 3 HR24-500s.
> 
> Do you have multiple units and use MRV?


I have an HR34 and the HR22 in the video using MRV.


----------



## HoTat2

Five HD-DVRs here right now;

2 HR22-100s
1 HR21-200
1 HR24-500
1 R22-100

All MRV coax networked via DECA over a SWiM-16 with a 1 x 8 SWiM splitter on each output.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

lparsons21 said:


> Thanks for the video. Your HR22 is working faster than any of my 3 HR24-500s.
> 
> Do you have multiple units and use MRV?


That's pretty odd that your HR24s should be slower than that video. My HR24-500 is much faster than that. AAMOF, you'd expect the HR24 to be faster than an HR22. BTW, I do use MRV on a daily basis. I have three DVRs, two H25s, a Nomad, and a wireless CCK; all of which is on DECA.

How are your DVRs setup?

Mike


----------



## sregener

RACJ2 said:


> So, I wasted time on my one full day home, to create a video of the HR22 performance and then uploaded it to YouTube and. I put my hand with the remote in front of the camera, so you doubting Thomas's couldn't say that I was not pressing the buttons at the same time that I said. So enjoy!


Other than no demonstration of getting into and out of a program or how fast 30-second skip went, that looks somewhat comparable in speed to what I would see with my HR22-100 *after* it had been on for some time, while not recording anything. The first 5-10 minutes of operation were when things were the worst, as well as getting in and out of recorded programs. And of course, there were occasional glitches where nothing would happen for 5-10 seconds with no discernible reason.


----------



## RACJ2

sregener said:


> Other than no demonstration of getting into and out of a program or how fast 30-second skip went, that looks somewhat comparable in speed to what I would see with my HR22-100 *after* it had been on for some time, while not recording anything. The first 5-10 minutes of operation were when things were the worst, as well as getting in and out of recorded programs. And of course, there were occasional glitches where nothing would happen for 5-10 seconds with no discernible reason.


Unbelievable, I prove my HR22 works fine and now you are saying, most of the time your HR22 worked fine as well. You made it sound like it was the slowest DVR ever made and performed poorly all the time. And most of your complaints were about entering channel #'s as in this post.


sregener said:


> Ok, I've owned a few DVRs in my life. The HR22 is the slowest. My Zenith PVR230 was the worst, but it was faster than the HR22.
> 
> Here's my definition of slow: If I can push a button, wait two seconds, and get no response from the DVR, that is unacceptable. If I have to push a button five times before it is accepted by the DVR, that is unacceptable. If I try to input a 3-digit channel number and only the third digit is received and acted upon, that is unacceptable. I have all of these problems with the HR22.... This may not be a technical enough answer for those who want to defend the DirecTV DVRs. But I don't think my expectations are unreasonable. If the commands were accepted but execution was delayed, I could probably live with it. But to never know if a button press was received, because response time is so variable and frequently not accepted, is worse than when I used a dial-up modem and had key presses delayed by 5 seconds - at least then, I knew I'd get a response eventually... I'm tired of pushing a button harder and harder, hoping that if I just push the button hard enough enough times, it will do what I'm asking it to.
> 
> My Hopper comes today.


And you can see, no issue with channel changes, no 2 second delay and no speed issue using list, guide or scrolling. In the video, I had just turned my HR22 on, but it works the same as it does a half hour later. At the time, I wasn't recording anything. And I did forget to do the 30 skip, but that is fast. Starting to play a recording will take about 5 or 6 seconds, but that doesn't bother me. It would be nice if it only took a second.

In conclusion, your HR22 worked the same as what I showed, which to me looks close to the performance of the Hopper. So why are you so much happier with it? I thought it was speed?


----------



## sigma1914

:lol: Ridiculous that evidence was given and it wasn't good enough for him. As I said, this is "...for your entertainment and to encourage a divide between members. Video showing how fast my HR is will do nothing for you... you won't switch back, you won't move on, you won't stop, etc."


----------



## HoTat2

I'm also a little confused with what " ... after it had been on for some time" has to do with anything for a DVR since it never really turns off to begin with as long as its plugged in.

The "off" function on a DVR is trivial, as it simply turns off the video output connectors.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

HoTat2 said:


> I'm also a little confused with what " ... after it had been on for some time" has to do with anything for a DVR since it never really turns off to begin with as long as its plugged in.
> 
> The "off" function on a DVR is trivial, as it simply turns off the video output connectors.


I know what he's talking about. Over the years I have noticed that my HRs are sometimes sluggish after having been idle for some time, like over night. Initially it would take a couple of seconds to respond to the remote. However, after the first couple of button presses it would be back to normal speed.

I've often thought that when it's idle for long periods it does housekeeping tasks or goes into some kind of idle mode. Maybe it takes a couple of seconds to come back to life and move some pages back into RAM from the hard drive.

Mike


----------



## RACJ2

sregener said:


> Other than no demonstration of getting into and out of a program or how fast 30-second skip went, that looks somewhat comparable in speed to what I would see with my HR22-100 *after* it had been on for some time, while not recording anything. The first 5-10 minutes of operation were when things were the worst, as well as getting in and out of recorded programs. And of course, there were occasional glitches where nothing would happen for 5-10 seconds with no discernible reason.


OK, in this video the HR22 is recording, I do a 30 sec skip and get into a recording and start playing it [link]. Now what are you going to change your story to?


----------



## sacflies

Thanks for the video RACJ2. My HR23's are not really close to being that fast...for whatever reason. Takes much longer to bring up the guide and list, and punching in channel numbers is not remotely as easy as yours are. Although the last few days once I am in the guide or list it scrolls thru very fast. It had always chugged slowly thru it up until a few days ago.

I am wondering if it has something to do with my setup. Does running the sat box thru an AVR then out to the HDTV slow down its operation? Handshake issues? It shouldn't since many people use AVR's today. And if it does this is another thing D* needs to work on.

What is your setup RACJ2?


----------



## skyboysea

Yesterday I had some time to waste so I called Directv to complain about the slowness of my HR20 and about the resolution bug introduced by the last NR.

First call: a gall in tech support who sounded like she just woke up, told me that 15-20 second to pull up the guide is normal and that there is nothing she can do about it

Second call: another gall in tech support said that they are having broadcast issues that cause the DRV to be slow. They are working on it and she would do some troubleshooting of my DRV as long as I delete enough recordings to have at least 50% of the disk available

Third call: I said I want to cancel service so I got to retention and talk to a woman who actually knew something and wasn't just reading off the script. She told me right away that they know of issues with the two recent FWs and that they are working on fixing them but she was given no ETA. She told me that they are required to forward the account information to the software team every time someone call to complain about slowness of the HDDVRs.

So, seen my experience, people with slow receivers should call to cancel so that their complaints can actually move up the chain. Complaining with tech support is useless because it dies there.


----------



## sacflies

RACJ2 said:


> OK, in this video the HR22 is recording, I do a 30 sec skip and get into a recording and start playing it [link]. Now what are you going to change your story to?


Another nice video! Thx. But don't give sregener such a hard time. Yes, your receiver is working just fine. But for whatever reason everyone's doesn't function nearly as well as yours...obviously. My friends receivers are very sluggish as well.

It's a mystery. It must be partly due to the various setups people have...AVR's, HDMI switches, etc etc. I don't really know what is going on. And apparently neither does D*.


----------



## lparsons21

Mike Bertelson said:


> That's pretty odd that your HR24s should be slower than that video. My HR24-500 is much faster than that. AAMOF, you'd expect the HR24 to be faster than an HR22. BTW, I do use MRV on a daily basis. I have three DVRs, two H25s, a Nomad, and a wireless CCK; all of which is on DECA.
> 
> How are your DVRs setup?
> 
> Mike


I have the standard SWM LNB with wires :
1. Straight from 8-way (I think, outside) to one HR upstairs
2. One cable to front room to power inserter and then to HR
3. One cable to front room CCK and to HR with a splitter

All are green splitter, all new cable and connectors.


----------



## lparsons21

sacflies said:


> Another nice video! Thx. But don't give sregener such a hard time. Yes, your receiver is working just fine. But for whatever reason everyone's doesn't function nearly as well as yours...obviously. My friends receivers are very sluggish as well.
> 
> It's a mystery. It must be partly due to the various setups people have...AVR's, HDMI switches, etc etc. I don't really know what is going on. And apperently neither does D*.


and that is exactly the frustration with these issues. We should all be getting around the same performance, yet we aren't. Makes you wonder a bit about the QA on some of D*'s equipment maybe not catching some marginal stuff.

I can get good speed from my system by using the iPad as a remote. Lickety split in nearly all functions. With the D* remote either responding slowly to the remote when it doesn't just get ignored completely. But the iPad as remote is a bit of a PITA.

My channel changes are much slower than the video, but they are what I expect. I have many resolutions selected and Native on because for the little SD I watch, my TV is much better at the upscaling. I know, I tested thoroughly.


----------



## RACJ2

sacflies said:


> Thanks for the video RACJ2. My HR23's are not really close to being that fast...for whatever reason. Takes much longer to bring up the guide and list, and punching in channel numbers is not remotely as easy as yours are. Although the last few days once I am in the guide or list it scrolls thru very fast. It had always chugged slowly thru it up until a few days ago.
> 
> I am wondering if it has something to do with my setup. Does running the sat box thru an AVR then out to the HDTV slow down its operation? Handshake issues? It shouldn't since many people use AVR's today. And if it does this is another thing D* needs to work on.
> 
> What is your setup RACJ2?


Good questions, but I'm no expert on that. With my setup, I have the HDMI cable going directly to my TV from the HR22. Then I have a digital toslink audio cable going directly to my receiver. I have no external hard drive attached to the HR22. I have my DVR's on an UPS to have stable power, since we have brown outs during the summer.


----------



## Christopher Gould

My hr34, hr21-100, hr21-200 perform the same if not better than RACJ2. Im hdmi though avr and no problems.


----------



## wahooq

> Third call: I said I want to cancel service so I got to retention and talk to a woman who actually knew something and wasn't just reading off the script. She told me right away that they know of issues with the two recent FWs and that they are working on fixing them but she was given no ETA. She told me that they are required to forward the account information to the software team every time someone call to complain about slowness of the HDDVRs


Should have you do a sendreport and recorded the report number also...call back


----------



## acostapimps

To me it seems that adding external to receiver is the culprit sometimes especially 2TB full of recordings (even 1TB) to have really slow responses but i guess it depends on the manufacture brands, but like a computer adding thousands of music or videos acts the same way depending on the CPU and VM so try unplugging external and use your DVR internal drive to see the difference if any


----------



## sregener

"RACJ2" said:


> OK, in this video the HR22 is recording, I do a 30 sec skip and get into a recording and start playing it [link]. Now what are you going to change your story to?


Not changing my story. My DVR worked fine... Sometimes. At other times, it acted up. Some channel changes were quick, some took forever. And it was never anywhere near as fast as the Hopper.

That 30-second skip is what I remember: slow. If you watch my video, you can see it skips instantly. If I could push the button on the remote faster, it probably can go faster than I show. Your DVR seems much quicker than mine in bringing up a list of recorded programs.

So, in short, if my DVR had worked like yours appears to be, I never would have left DirecTV. Yes, getting more channels in HD is nice, but not worth the hassle of switching, learning new remotes, etc. But your DVR is still much slower than the Hopper. MysteryMan and a few others have claimed their HR24s are about the same speed as the Hopper in all functions, including 30-second skip. Still waiting on that video...


----------



## sregener

"acostapimps" said:


> To me it seems that adding external to receiver is the culprit sometimes especially 2TB full of recordings (even 1TB) to have really slow responses but i guess it depends on the manufacture brands, but like a computer adding thousands of music or videos acts the same way depending on the CPU and VM so try unplugging external and use your DVR internal drive to see the difference if any


I never had an external hard drive, and never reached 50% full. I had about 35-40 programs recorded and stored, on average. I did have 14 series set to record.


----------



## MysteryMan

sregener said:


> Not changing my story. My DVR worked fine... Sometimes. At other times, it acted up. Some channel changes were quick, some took forever. And it was never anywhere near as fast as the Hopper.
> 
> That 30-second skip is what I remember: slow. If you watch my video, you can see it skips instantly. If I could push the button on the remote faster, it probably can go faster than I show. Your DVR seems much quicker than mine in bringing up a list of recorded programs.
> 
> So, in short, if my DVR had worked like yours appears to be, I never would have left DirecTV. Yes, getting more channels in HD is nice, but not worth the hassle of switching, learning new remotes, etc. But your DVR is still much slower than the Hopper. MysteryMan and a few others have claimed their HR24s are about the same speed as the Hopper in all functions, including 30-second skip. Still waiting on that video...


MysteryMan claims nothing. These are the facts. I have two HR24-500s. I do not use external hard drives. Both receivers are internet connected, set with Scrolling Effects off and because I desire as little image molesting as possible both receivers are set with Native on. The HR24-500 in my home theater room operates at 111 degrees and has 84% free space on the hard drive. It is connected via HDMI cable to a Sony STR-DA5600ES A/V receiver which is connected via HDMI cable to a Sony XBR-65HX929 HDTV. Channel changes between HD channels takes 2-3 seconds. Channel changes between HD and SD channels takes 3-5 seconds. All other commands begin one second after pressing a button on the receiver or remote. Considering the receiver is set with Native on and what takes place when changing channels the time lapse for channel changing is very reasonable. The HR24-500 in my family entertainment room operates at 108 degrees and has 97% free space on the hard drive. It is connected via HDMI cable to a Sony STR-DN1020 A/V receiver which is connected via HDMI cable to a Sony KDL-55HX729 HDTV. Time frames for channel changes and other commands are the same as the HR24-500 in my home theater room. Yes, I began having issues last week with the HR24-500 in my home theater room (slow command response, menu freeze ups). I called DirecTV and followed their instructions. The issues were resolved and the HR24-500 continues to operate normally. I have never doubted the issues you and others are/were having with your DirecTV equipment so please don't post that I and others are "claiming" what we are experiencing with our DirecTV equipment.


----------



## RACJ2

sregener said:


> Not changing my story. My DVR worked fine... Sometimes. At other times, it acted up. Some channel changes were quick, some took forever. And it was never anywhere near as fast as the Hopper.
> 
> That 30-second skip is what I remember: slow. If you watch my video, you can see it skips instantly. If I could push the button on the remote faster, it probably can go faster than I show. Your DVR seems much quicker than mine in bringing up a list of recorded programs.
> 
> So, in short, if my DVR had worked like yours appears to be, I never would have left DirecTV. Yes, getting more channels in HD is nice, but not worth the hassle of switching, learning new remotes, etc. But your DVR is still much slower than the Hopper. MysteryMan and a few others have claimed their HR24s are about the same speed as the Hopper in all functions, including 30-second skip. Still waiting on that video...


Thank you for your honesty. I believe you were having issues with your HR22 and I had some of the same issues on SD GUI. Not sure why HD GUI seems to have cured mine, but I'm happy it did. All I was trying to do is take you up on your challenge to show you that some HR22's are performing fine.

On the 30 second skip, my Hr22 skips forward 30 seconds almost instantaneous. How much faster can it be? And now your saying "If I could push the button on the remote faster, it probably can go faster than I show.". Well same here, then. Mine is actually 10x's as fast as what I showed.  Again, I wish you luck with the hopper, it has a couple features I would like on my HR34. Just not enough features for me to switch and give up all my HD sports packages, etc.

For those interested in the videos I posted showing the performance of my HR22, here are the links: [*video1*] [*video2*]. I had to black out a section in video1, because I didn't want my receiver ID out on YouTube. So some of the links in prior posts that were quoted, won't work any longer.


----------



## Christopher Gould

"RAD" said:


> OK, I decided to get out my iPhone and use the clock app to measure the times between his Hopper and my HR24-500, which BTW was part of the early testing program so I've had it for over 26 months now.
> 
> - Power On, Hopper= 4.0 seconds, HR24-500= 5.4 seconds
> - Guide, Hopper= 2.4 seconds, HR24-500= 1.7 seconds
> - Scoll guide 10x, Hopper=5.9 seconds, HR24-500= 7.4 seconds
> - Playlist, Hopper= 2.0 seconds (which is only the recordings on his Hopper, HR24-500= 3.1 seconds (which is the playlist for local + 5 other HR DVR's via WHDVR)
> - Start Play, Hopper= 3.7 seconds, HR24-500=2.4 seconds for local recording, 5.2 seconds for WHDVR recording
> Change Channel, Hopper=2.9 seconds, HR24-500= 3.8 seconds
> 
> So from what I see is the Hopper is quicker but IMHO not as blazing fast compared to the HR24-500 as some try to make it sound like.


Sregener according to this post your hopper isn't that much faster. My hr21-100/200 is only a second or two slower and its alot older.


----------



## lparsons21

Christopher Gould said:


> Sregener according to this post your hopper isn't that much faster. My hr21-100/200 is only a second or two slower and its alot older.


While that may be true in your case, it isn't for lots of others including me.

In the case of the Hopper/Joey combo there has been not ONE single posting ever about slowness. And with history, all the Vips from Dish have only had rare and short times when slowness was even discussed about them.

OTOH, D*'s HRs have had the slowness and remote response issues to some degree ever since the first one shipped.


----------



## sregener

RACJ2 said:


> On the 30 second skip, my Hr22 skips forward 30 seconds almost instantaneous. How much faster can it be?


According to another poster who timed my posted video, I got 16 30-second skips done in just over 7 seconds. It looks like you got 4 done in 5 seconds. That puts the Hopper at least 3x faster than yours. I consider instant to be "I don't have to wait before inputing the next command because the last one has already executed." My HR22 required me to wait before pressing the button again - I see in the video you are well trained as well to wait for the command to complete before pressing the button again. Try hitting it 4x as fast as you can and see if you really get 4x from the box. And yes, in the real world, I do press the skip button as fast as I can - I know, for instance, that NASCAR on Fox has a 3-minute commercial break, which is 6 skips. Took me well over 6 seconds to do that with my HR22, and under 2 with the Hopper. NFL Football is 4 skips. And don't get me started on halftime - 31 skips. Those pauses add up.


----------



## sregener

Christopher Gould said:


> Sregener according to this post your hopper isn't that much faster. My hr21-100/200 is only a second or two slower and its alot older.


Well, yes, we have someone who put up some numbers. But no video. MysteryMan was unimpressed by a comparison video of the Vip722 vs the DirecTV HD DVR, saying, "Well, yes everybody puts those out." But I'm looking for the video that shows a DirecTV HD DVR matching - even coming close as the numbers posted for that HR24-500 are - a Hopper. I agree that if people are getting that performance from their DirecTV HD DVR, they have no reason to switch. I assure you my times would be nowhere near that with my HR22-100.


----------



## Christopher Gould

I believe people are having problems but we haven't seen a video of a 45 second channel change either.


----------



## RACJ2

sregener said:


> According to another poster who timed my posted video, I got 16 30-second skips done in just over 7 seconds. It looks like you got 4 done in 5 seconds. That puts the Hopper at least 3x faster than yours. I consider instant to be "I don't have to wait before inputing the next command because the last one has already executed." My HR22 required me to wait before pressing the button again - I see in the video you are well trained as well to wait for the command to complete before pressing the button again. Try hitting it 4x as fast as you can and see if you really get 4x from the box. And yes, in the real world, I do press the skip button as fast as I can - I know, for instance, that NASCAR on Fox has a 3-minute commercial break, which is 6 skips. Took me well over 6 seconds to do that with my HR22, and under 2 with the Hopper. NFL Football is 4 skips. And don't get me started on halftime - 31 skips. Those pauses add up.


I thought you weren't going to change your story? The difference in the speed of the 30 second skip between the 2 DVR's is insignificant. But just to prove you wrong, when I get back from church, I will post a video showing that the HR22 30 second skip is faster then what I posted. And faster then the dubious performance of the Hopper! My point was to show it responding quickly to each press of the button. Gees!


----------



## Mike Bertelson

lparsons21 said:


> I have the standard SWM LNB with wires :
> 1. Straight from 8-way (I think, outside) to one HR upstairs
> 2. One cable to front room to power inserter and then to HR
> 3. One cable to front room CCK and to HR with a splitter
> 
> All are green splitter, all new cable and connectors.


Nothing unusual there. What remote are you using and what kind of TV do you have? There are some LCD TVs that interfere with IR remotes.

Mike


----------



## Mike Bertelson

Lets keep the discussion civil please. This will be the only warning.

Mike


----------



## sigma1914

Here's my video of the HR24-100. This was right after power on from off all night. Native is ON, so that's why there's HDMI delays. The last channel change at 1:05 was fastest because resolution was the same. Each blink on the DirecTV logo light occurs when commanded & coincides with on screen results.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

I guess I'm missing what all the hoopla on timings is all about.

One would expect different hardware to get different results.

Based on the OP and thread topic heading...I surmised this was about an issue about the current HD DVRs having an issue with performance.

There are plenty of posts and reports of various less-than-stellar symptoms on some user HD DVRS. Then again, we have no clear idea what environments those are operating under, nor how they are configured. Those things can impact device results.

In any case, what I have collected in reading various threads and posts on this topic is that there are pockets of users with some reported performance issues, and DirecTV is aware of those. 

Not all CSRs are totally up to date with every single reported issue, and as with any company, that should not come as any surprise.

I would suspect that translates into the issues being addressed some time as soon as feasible for an updated firmware pushout. That's been the process for many years, so there's no reason to believe it has changed.

Patience might be a good recommendation.


----------



## texasmoose

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I guess I'm missing what all the hoopla on timings is all about.
> 
> One would expect different hardware to get different results.
> 
> Based on the OP and thread topic heading...I surmised this was about an issue about the current HD DVRs having an issue with performance.
> 
> There are plenty of posts and reports of various less-than-stellar symptoms on some user HD DVRS. Then again, we have no clear idea what environments those are operating under, nor how they are configured. Those things can impact device results.
> 
> In any case, what I have collected in reading various threads and posts on this topic is that there are pockets of users with some reported performance issues, and DirecTV is aware of those.
> 
> Not all CSRs are totally up to date with every single reported issue, and as with any company, that should not come as any surprise.
> 
> I would suspect that translates into the issues being addressed some time as soon as feasible for an updated firmware pushout. That's been the process for many years, so there's no reason to believe it has changed.
> 
> Patience might be a good recommendation.


very well said...............


----------



## Mike Bertelson

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I guess I'm missing what all the hoopla on timings is all about.
> 
> One would expect different hardware to get different results.
> 
> Based on the OP and thread topic heading...I surmised this was about an issue about the current HD DVRs having an issue with performance.
> 
> There are plenty of posts and reports of various less-than-stellar symptoms on some user HD DVRS. Then again, we have no clear idea what environments those are operating under, nor how they are configured. Those things can impact device results.
> 
> In any case, what I have collected in reading various threads and posts on this topic is that there are pockets of users with some reported performance issues, and DirecTV is aware of those.
> 
> Not all CSRs are totally up to date with every single reported issue, and as with any company, that should not come as any surprise.
> 
> I would suspect that translates into the issues being addressed some time as soon as feasible for an updated firmware pushout. That's been the process for many years, so there's no reason to believe it has changed.
> 
> Patience might be a good recommendation.


Very good point Fan. We could all do with less reaction and more thoughtful discussion. 

Mike


----------



## RACJ2

sregener said:


> According to another poster who timed my posted video, I got 16 30-second skips done in just over 7 seconds. It looks like you got 4 done in 5 seconds. That puts the Hopper at least 3x faster than yours. I consider instant to be "I don't have to wait before inputing the next command because the last one has already executed." My HR22 required me to wait before pressing the button again - I see in the video you are well trained as well to wait for the command to complete before pressing the button again. Try hitting it 4x as fast as you can and see if you really get 4x from the box. And yes, in the real world, I do press the skip button as fast as I can - I know, for instance, that NASCAR on Fox has a 3-minute commercial break, which is 6 skips. Took me well over 6 seconds to do that with my HR22, and under 2 with the Hopper. NFL Football is 4 skips. And don't get me started on halftime - 31 skips. Those pauses add up.


Well, in this *[video] *you will see that I hit 30 second skip 16x's rapidly and HR22 skips 8 minutes ahead in 6 seconds or less and the Hopper took 7 seconds (based on your post, I didn't time it). So as I said, my HR22 is on par with the performance of the DISH Hooper, VIP 722, etc.

The results of my videos show that some HR22's are performing better then ever on the new HDGUI and at least on par with competitors DVR's. (I have to catch a flight out this evening, so I'm done with spending time uploading videos)


----------



## hdtvfan0001

RACJ2 said:


> Well, in this *[video] *you will see that I hit 30 second skip 16x's rapidly and HR22 skips 8 minutes ahead in 6 seconds or less and the Hopper took 7 seconds (based on your post, I didn't time it). So as I said, my HR22 is on par with the performance of the DISH Hooper, VIP 722, etc.
> 
> The results of my videos show that some HR22's are performing better then ever on the new HDGUI and at least on par with competitors DVR's. (I have to catch a flight out this evening, so I'm done with spending time uploading videos)


Thanks for taking the time to assemble and provide the video.

It's interesting and reinforces the viewing experience here.

Again, I suspect further improvements going forward, but this clearly substantiates speedy HDGUI results.

Perhaps now that this is clear...we can move on to the general discussion at hand.


----------



## lparsons21

Mike Bertelson said:


> Nothing unusual there. What remote are you using and what kind of TV do you have? There are some LCD TVs that interfere with IR remotes.
> 
> Mike


Stock remote from D*. One using RF the other IR for the 2 different HRs in my AV rack.

And the TV is in my sig, a Panasonic plasma so that shouldn't be affecting anything.

I've said and confirmed with my self that my issues are all remote response times and remote ignoring. Everything is operating quick enough IF I use the iPad as the remote control. Unfortunately, that isn't all that handy to use.

The only slowness issues, and they aren't really all that big a deal, is that channel changes are slow, caused because I use lots of resolutions and Native On which makes for lots of HDMI handshaking as I change channels.

The other slowness is coming out of a recorded event, it always takes about 15 seconds for the playlist to be ready. Again, this isn't earth shattering and is tolerable.


----------



## sregener

"RACJ2" said:


> Well, in this [video] you will see that I hit 30 second skip 16x's rapidly and HR22 skips 8 minutes ahead in 6 seconds or less and the Hopper took 7 seconds (based on your post, I didn't time it). So as I said, my HR22 is on par with the performance of the DISH Hooper, VIP 722, etc.
> 
> The results of my videos show that some HR22's are performing better then ever on the new HDGUI and at least on par with competitors DVR's. (I have to catch a flight out this evening, so I'm done with spending time uploading videos)


You have every reason to be pleased. Mine wasn't that fast.

And as for patience, I gave them 26 months to fix it. They didn't goodbye.

I must be getting someone's attention, though. Directv called and offered me half price on programming to come back.


----------



## sigma1914

sregener said:


> ...
> 
> I must be getting someone's attention, though. Directv called and offered me half price on programming to come back.


:lol: They do that for pretty much everyone who leaves. You're not getting anyone's attention.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

lparsons21 said:


> Stock remote from D*. One using RF the other IR for the 2 different HRs in my AV rack.
> 
> And the TV is in my sig, a Panasonic plasma so that shouldn't be affecting anything.
> 
> I've said and confirmed with my self that my issues are all remote response times and remote ignoring. Everything is operating quick enough IF I use the iPad as the remote control. Unfortunately, that isn't all that handy to use.
> 
> The only slowness issues, and they aren't really all that big a deal, is that channel changes are slow, caused because I use lots of resolutions and Native On which makes for lots of HDMI handshaking as I change channels.
> 
> The other slowness is coming out of a recorded event, it always takes about 15 seconds for the playlist to be ready. Again, this isn't earth shattering and is tolerable.


Nothing out of the ordinary there either. Except for the RF my setup is similar.

I'm stumped. It's definitely odd how two similar setups can have such disparate performance.

Mike


----------



## dpeters11

And shows why it's not as simple of an issue as some seem to think.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

dpeters11 said:


> And shows why it's not as simple of an issue as some seem to think.


It certainly isn't. It would also seem as if the HD GUI is not the culprit or at one of my five receivers would be showing some kind of slowdowns.

The question is what else could be causing this problem...or is it possible that the HD GIU could have this effect on certain setups and not others? :shrug:

Mike


----------



## lparsons21

dpeters11 said:


> And shows why it's not as simple of an issue as some seem to think.


Yep, that it does! 

My 3 HR24-500s came in seperately. The first two were shipped direct from D*'s Office of the President group and appeared to be refurbs.

The 3rd one was bought brand new in sealed box from another source.

Which kind of indicates that it isn't a 'batch' problem as suggested earlier. But some questions are in order I think.

1. How tight is the mfg QA to the design specs? IOW, are the specs a bit looser than they should be.

2. How tight is the control of the wires and connectors be correct, ie; not some el-cheapo cable the contractor found somewhere.

3. If as it seems to me, that the remotes themselves might be an issue, has this been looked into?

We assume that all is good when the installer comes to the door, that he has the proper equipment and tools and knows how to do the job exactly right. But are they all that consistent?


----------



## MysteryMan

Mike Bertelson said:


> It certainly isn't. It would also seem as if the HD GUI is not the culprit or at one of my five receivers would be showing some kind of slowdowns.
> 
> The question is what else could be causing this problem...or is it possible that the HD GIU could have this effect on certain setups and not others? :shrug:
> 
> Mike


That's the catch. The cause of the problem has yet to be identified.


----------



## sacflies

I guess it boils down to this...this is all pretty complicated technology we are dealing with here...millions of dishes on homes receiving a signal relayed from satellites circling the earth, then run thru receivers connected to and through various equipment. Lots of stuff can go wrong and slow down the process. It's amazing that it works as well as it does...if you think about it. It seems inevitable that D* will have glitches that need to be ironed out. All this high tech stuff we have today and take for granted just boggles the mind when you stop to ponder it.

But I am still left with the decision...stick with D* or give Dish a try? I can't make up my mind! Programming isn't really an issue to me as there is not that big a difference. D* has more sports programming but most of that comes at a significant additional cost that I don't want to pay for anyway. PQ doesn't seem to be much of an issue. So I sit here with 2 HDTV's in 2 rooms that are still using SD boxes because I haven't decided yet what to do. I am out of contract with D* now. If I stay with D* and get 2 more HD boxes and Whole Home DVR then I am once again locked into D* for 2 more years. And I have not been happy with my HD receivers. My HR23's have not been even remotely as quick as some say theirs are and the videos posted lately here show (thx for taking the time to post the videos RACJ2, despite limited time to do so). But the last few days they seem a bit more responsive for whatever reason. Not sure what has changed. But Dish's Hopper/Joey system looks pretty darn good. I like the small size of the Joeys. So there's that. Gotta make the call soon. 

I may play the game a bit and call D* and tell them to set a cancellation date and see what offers they come up with to get me to stay. Kind of sleazy but ya gotta do what ya gotta do right?! Plus I think I deserve some compensation for all the aggravation that my HR23's have casued me the last 2 years. And D* isn't willing to give it up willingly and straight up. Just getting an upgraded receiver is next to impossible.

I'll make the decision soon...hopefully.


----------



## sregener

"sacflies" said:


> It's amazing that it works as well as it does...if you think about it. It seems inevitable that D* will have glitches that need to be ironed out. All this high tech stuff we have today and take for granted just boggles the mind when you stop to ponder it.


Most of the technology is old at this point. Satellites have been around for decades. Remote controls. Hard drives and computers, too. I bought a Panasonic Showstopper (ReplayTV) in 1998, and it had to digitize analog input before storing it on a hard drive. Newer DVRs don't - the signal is already digitized, they just need to record that stream, which is no more than 18Mbps (about 2MB/sec.). The harder part is decoding that digital signal and transmitting it to the receiver, but MPEG2 is over a decade old, and MPEG4 takes more horsepower, but nothing else. So what's so hard about all this stuff? I hear people blame it on light bulbs or backlights, but everything else in a home theater takes IR just fine. It's just the DirecTV DVR that can't figure it out.

Gamble with DirecTV if you want. Or go with the sure thing with Dish. Your call.


----------



## RAD

sregener said:


> Gamble with DirecTV if you want. Or go with the sure thing with Dish. Your call.


As someone that had Dish in the past I sure would't use the term "sure thing" with them. I'm happy you're happy with them, but if you look at some of THR Hopper/Joey posts here and the other site there are folks there not happy with the product, including some DIRECTV folks that made the switch and regret it.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

sregener said:


> Most of the technology is old at this point. Satellites have been around for decades. Remote controls. Hard drives and computers, too. I bought a Panasonic Showstopper (ReplayTV) in 1998, and it had to digitize analog input before storing it on a hard drive. Newer DVRs don't - the signal is already digitized, they just need to record that stream, which is no more than 18Mbps (about 2MB/sec.). The harder part is decoding that digital signal and transmitting it to the receiver, but MPEG2 is over a decade old, and MPEG4 takes more horsepower, but nothing else. So what's so hard about all this stuff? I hear people blame it on light bulbs or backlights, but everything else in a home theater takes IR just fine. It's just the DirecTV DVR that can't figure it out.
> 
> Gamble with DirecTV if you want. Or *go with the sure thing with Dish*. Your call.


Hmmm....I just realized if one scrambles the right name...you can find Ergen in it.


----------



## sregener

"hdtvfan0001" said:


> Hmmm....I just realized if one scrambles the right name...you can find Ergen in it.


Now that's just crazy. Can you find Charlie?


----------



## sregener

"RAD" said:


> As someone that had Dish in the past I sure would't use the term "sure thing" with them. I'm happy you're happy with them, but if you look at some of THR Hopper/Joey posts here and the other site there are folks there not happy with the product, including some DIRECTV folks that made the switch and regret it.


Most of them seem to be having issues related to two Hoppers.

I had my own issue with the DVR losing playback position while it was still recording. Got a workaround from a DIRT member in a day, and a firmware fix within a week. That's the kind of service we should expect from these companies. Not months or years of runarounds and excuses and denials.

Seeing that the speed problems are not universal makes me a little less giddy. I figured everyone was getting the rotten performance I was seeing. Apparently not. But after two years of living in pain, it's fun to have a DVR that is faster than me, rather than the other way around. Best of luck to you all.


----------



## RACJ2

"sacflies" said:


> I guess it boils down to this...this is all pretty complicated technology we are dealing with here...millions of dishes on homes receiving a signal relayed from satellites circling the earth, then run thru receivers connected to and through various equipment. Lots of stuff can go wrong and slow down the process. It's amazing that it works as well as it does...if you think about it. It seems inevitable that D* will have glitches that need to be ironed out. All this high tech stuff we have today and take for granted just boggles the mind when you stop to ponder it.
> 
> But I am still left with the decision...stick with D* or give Dish a try? I can't make up my mind! Programming isn't really an issue to me as there is not that big a difference. D* has more sports programming but most of that comes at a significant additional cost that I don't want to pay for anyway. PQ doesn't seem to be much of an issue. So I sit here with 2 HDTV's in 2 rooms that are still using SD boxes because I haven't decided yet what to do. I am out of contract with D* now. If I stay with D* and get 2 more HD boxes and Whole Home DVR then I am once again locked into D* for 2 more years. And I have not been happy with my HD receivers. My HR23's have not been even remotely as quick as some say theirs are and the videos posted lately here show (thx for taking the time to post the videos RACJ2, despite limited time to do so). But the last few days they seem a bit more responsive for whatever reason. Not sure what has changed. But Dish's Hopper/Joey system looks pretty darn good. I like the small size of the Joeys. So there's that. Gotta make the call soon.
> 
> I may play the game a bit and call D* and tell them to set a cancellation date and see what offers they come up with to get me to stay. Kind of sleazy but ya gotta do what ya gotta do right?! Plus I think I deserve some compensation for all the aggravation that my HR23's have casued me the last 2 years. And D* isn't willing to give it up willingly and straight up. Just getting an upgraded receiver is next to impossible.
> 
> I'll make the decision soon...hopefully.


Hello from 30000 feet (Delta flight)! You have to decide what your wants and needs are. The Hopper would be better if you watch a lot of prime time network programs. The HR34 would be better if you want to record more then 3 non-network shows @ once. Or record 3 and watch 2 other non-network shows and even use pip with them.

Good luck with your decision!


----------



## sacflies

RACJ2 said:


> Hello from 30000 feet (Delta flight)! You have to decide what your wants and needs are. The Hopper would be better if you watch a lot of prime time network programs. The HR34 would be better if you want to record more then 3 non-network shows @ once. Or record 3 and watch 2 other non-network shows and even use pip with them.
> 
> Good luck with your decision!


The problem is getting the HR34. D* doesn't seem to want to part with them.


----------



## RACJ2

sacflies said:


> The problem is getting the HR34. D* doesn't seem to want to part with them.


I was able to get an HR34 for free, free MRV and install with it. Have you tried going to retention by saying cancel?

If you decide you would prefer to stay with DIRECTV, call and tell them you are seriously thinking of leaving and going to DISH. Let them now your looking at the Hopper and its free, etc, but you would rather stay and get an HR34 if they could match that offer. Then if they don't give you what you want, they may be making the decision for you to leave, for you.

If you really want to stay with DIRECTV, you could even go one step further. Cancel and wait to see if they send you the "we want you back offer". Its usually almost as good as a new subscriber offer. You may have to go with OTA only for a week or so, but it may be worth it if you want the HR34. If they don't, sign up with Dish. Hope it works out for you.


----------



## sacflies

RACJ2 said:


> I was able to get an HR34 for free, free MRV and install with it. Have you tried going to retention by saying cancel?
> 
> If you decide you would prefer to stay with DIRECTV, call and tell them you are seriously thinking of leaving and going to DISH. Let them now your looking at the Hopper and its free, etc, but you would rather stay and get an HR34 if they could match that offer. Then if they don't give you what you want, they may be making the decision for you to leave, for you.
> 
> If you really want to stay with DIRECTV, you could even go one step further. Cancel and wait to see if they send you the "we want you back offer". Its usually almost as good as a new subscriber offer. You may have to go with OTA only for a week or so, but it may be worth it if you want the HR34. If they don't, sign up with Dish. Hope it works out for you.


Yes I have called several times to retentions and they say they can do 2 more HD receivers and do the whole home dvr for $100. That was with keeping my 2 current HD DVR's (HR23's) and getting 2 additional HD receivers for 2 rooms. They couldn't promise me getting a HR34 as my main unit. I am maxed out on discounts and they wouldn't offer me any other kinds of incentives to stay with them. Asked for a discount on the MLB EI but that was a no go. So going with Dish right now would save me $100 up front plus $20-25 a month for the first year. They didn't seem to be working very hard to keep me as a customer. Which is why I then started looking at dish. I don't really have the option of OTA as the signals are not very strong here. Will make the call soon on which way to go.


----------



## Marlin Guy

sigma1914 said:


> We need 1 topic for all the complaining some people do repeatedly. It seems every topic is the same...
> 
> A newer or less active member posts about speed.


Yes, I do see a trend here. :lol:


----------



## sigma1914

Marlin Guy said:


> Yes, I do see a trend here. :lol:


I missed your attempt at humor.


----------



## Marlin Guy

The point is this.
Typically, a new member comes to post about a problem.
The fact that there is a flood of new members posting about the same problem should be some indication of a common denominator, and some confirmation that the problem does indeed exist.

Denying it, or telling people to turn off certain features in order to compensate for an over-burdened hardware platform isn't exactly a solution.

Look at this way.
A large number of Toyota Camry drivers suddenly begin to complain that their cars are unresponsive and nearly impossible to operate.
They flock to online forums for information and possible solutions. That isn't a forum problem. It's a Toyota problem.
And if the Camry fanboys tell them to turn off their air conditioners and stereos in order to get some sliver of improved performance, that's not a solution to the root problem, and it would generally just p-off the people who are already not happy with the service.

So the primary trend isn't that new members either don't know how to or are not interested in searching for previous posts about the problem. The crux of the issue is WHY so many of them are doing it lately, and what, if anything DirecTV is going to do about the alienation of so many loyal customers.

The bulk of us are not power users. We just want our equipment to work and to able to watch some TV.
Consolidating all of them into one thread doesn't address the root cause of the problem. It merely helps to make the problem possibly appear less prevalent.


----------



## sigma1914

No one is denying the problem. 
Some don't have the problems. 
Your analogy is horrible... Unresponsive cars kill people; waiting 10 seconds for the playlist to display won't kill anyone.
You switched a month ago http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=203617 , are you back to stir the pot?


----------



## Marlin Guy

This pot gets stirred plenty with or without me.
In fact, I'd say it has only increased since I left. I just dropped by out of morbid curiosity. I'm loving my "HOPPA"!


----------



## Mike Bertelson

Discuss the topic and not each other. Take it to PM or let it go.

:backtotop

Mike


----------



## MysteryMan

Marlin Guy said:


> This pot gets stirred plenty with or without me.
> In fact, I'd say it has only increased since I left. I just dropped by out of morbid curiosity. I'm loving my "HOPPA"!


I love my two HR24-500s but I don't have a need to post it multible times on DISH threads.


----------



## Nicholsen

Marlin Guy said:


> The point is this.
> Typically, a new member comes to post about a problem.
> The fact that there is a flood of new members posting about the same problem should be some indication of a common denominator, and some confirmation that the problem does indeed exist.
> 
> Denying it, or telling people to turn off certain features in order to compensate for an over-burdened hardware platform isn't exactly a solution.
> 
> Look at this way.
> A large number of Toyota Camry drivers suddenly begin to complain that their cars are unresponsive and nearly impossible to operate.
> They flock to online forums for information and possible solutions. That isn't a forum problem. It's a Toyota problem.
> And if the Camry fanboys tell them to turn off their air conditioners and stereos in order to get some sliver of improved performance, that's not a solution to the root problem, and it would generally just p-off the people who are already not happy with the service.
> 
> So the primary trend isn't that new members either don't know how to or are not interested in searching for previous posts about the problem. The crux of the issue is WHY so many of them are doing it lately, and what, if anything DirecTV is going to do about the alienation of so many loyal customers.
> 
> The bulk of us are not power users. We just want our equipment to work and to able to watch some TV.
> Consolidating all of them into one thread doesn't address the root cause of the problem. It merely helps to make the problem possibly appear less prevalent.


+1

Six months ago I became so frustrated with the general slowness of my HR21 that I suspended my D* service in order to see what Comcast had to offer. At that time, several posters on this board were insisting that the speed issues would be fixed just as soon as the HD interface was released nationally.

Sound familiar?

After 10+ years with D*, I was pleasantly suprised that Comcast has managed to get its act together. No contract, quick install, no cable card issues, and comparable HD picture quality (better SD picture quality)

I was able to find two used TiVo HDs (for about $50 each) and upgraded them with 1.5T WD AV hard drives (about $75 each, pre flood, they are now around $120). Roughly $250 all in, and I own the units.

It's been great! The TiVo HDs have been rock solid and the "classic TiVo" user interface is a joy. They are the Kalashnikov of DVRs.

I have 4 tuners, nearly 400 hours of storage and most content can be transferred between the TiVos and/or a PC, media server, or NAS for long-term storage/access. If you ever have a hard drive problem on the DVR down the road, you can attempt to transfer/salvage your programming to a new hard drivewith free tools readily available on the net.

My six month experiment is over May 10. I am going to cancel my D* service.


----------



## Davenlr

Nicholsen said:


> My six month experiment is over May 10. I am going to cancel my D* service.


I tend to agree with you. I have 18 months left on my contract, however, so have to experiment a little longer


----------



## Podkayne

I've been out of contract for years, but am loathe to end a 17 1/2 year business relationship and nearly 500 hours of programming stored on this HR 20-100's external 2 TB drive just because of another glitch...I continue to abide patiently...(now nearly three months since the awful 0x59e firmware nearly trashed my previously superb HR 20...)


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Having pursued this question multiple times directly with mgmt folks at DirecTV....

Once any contract commitment expires...a customer is no longer on any extended agreement obligation. You become a month-to-month paying customer.

That situation can change, of course, if you accept any new service or hardware device offers that _might_ start a new 2-year commitment.

I've called many times to validate this policy.


----------



## gordon1fan

Yesterday I switched to the new THR22-100 DIRECTV TiVo HD DVR. No longer do I have to put up wth that crappy HR21 software. The Tivo software is very responsive and don't lock up. The TiVo software is great, it just works!


----------



## AlanSaysYo

gordon1fan said:


> Yesterday I switched to the new THR22-100 DIRECTV TiVo HD DVR. No longer do I have to put up wth that crappy HR21 software. The Tivo software is very responsive and don't lock up. The TiVo software is great, it just works!


If only it worked with MRV...

"Here's a piece of cake. You must eat it in this dark closet."


----------



## TBoneit

gordon1fan said:


> Yesterday I switched to the new THR22-100 DIRECTV TiVo HD DVR. No longer do I have to put up wth that crappy HR21 software. The Tivo software is very responsive and don't lock up. The TiVo software is great, it just works!


isn't it amazing the HR-22 with the HDGUI seems to make many unhappy where the same hardware as a THR-22 from Tivo works OK.

That tells the tale to me. Evidently little Tivo, size relative to DirecTV can write better software.

For those that don't want to switch providers over unresponsive DVRs this may be the solution. Minus Whole Home of course.


----------



## gordon1fan

AlanSaysYo said:


> If only it worked with MRV...
> 
> "Here's a piece of cake. You must eat it in this dark closet."


To me it really doesn't matter about MRV. Long as I have a DVR that will work. I have a DIRECTV TiVo R-10 SD DVR in the bedroom. Had that receiver for 8 years now. Still works great!


----------



## todd.scallions

Marlin Guy said:


> The point is this.
> Typically, a new member comes to post about a problem.
> The fact that there is a flood of new members posting about the same problem should be some indication of a common denominator, and some confirmation that the problem does indeed exist.
> 
> Denying it, or telling people to turn off certain features in order to compensate for an over-burdened hardware platform isn't exactly a solution.
> 
> Look at this way.
> A large number of Toyota Camry drivers suddenly begin to complain that their cars are unresponsive and nearly impossible to operate.
> They flock to online forums for information and possible solutions. That isn't a forum problem. It's a Toyota problem.
> And if the Camry fanboys tell them to turn off their air conditioners and stereos in order to get some sliver of improved performance, that's not a solution to the root problem, and it would generally just p-off the people who are already not happy with the service.
> 
> So the primary trend isn't that new members either don't know how to or are not interested in searching for previous posts about the problem. The crux of the issue is WHY so many of them are doing it lately, and what, if anything DirecTV is going to do about the alienation of so many loyal customers.
> 
> The bulk of us are not power users. We just want our equipment to work and to able to watch some TV.
> Consolidating all of them into one thread doesn't address the root cause of the problem. It merely helps to make the problem possibly appear less prevalent.


What a great post! I thought I was the only one with crappy hardware until I saw this thread. Both of my DVR's have been slow for months and just ignore key presses. I have been coming to this site for years and all I ever see on here is DirecTV can not promise you that you will get the newest box so I haven't even bothered calling them to ask for anything. I don't really want to switch just because I am lazy and I don't really want to go through the whole deal of switching but after watching that guy's video of the hopper, I'm starting to get a little energy in me. I do truly hope that DirecTV will correct this soon but at this point I have little faith.


----------



## 1948GG

At the end of the day, everyone has to admit (if they are sane) that it all comes down to software.

Many receiver/DVR machines, several generations (almost too many to count) of hardware ago back from what is now 'new', performed excellently 'at the time of their introduction'. Then the s/w coders, in an attempt to justify their continued employment, kept coming up with 'neat' additions to that 'base' code. Some ideas had merit, others were less so.

But NONE were adequately tested either by the coders or by a reasonable sample of customers. And, to make matters worse, there appeared to be no oversight of the process by any management that either took a even a cursory look at what had been done, or put in place a system to fully track customer complaints once it had been 'rolled out'.

The result was that in many circumstances, even the 'newest' hardware was brought to it's knees by junk code. In just the last two years or so, this has occurred at least twice; it shows that both the 'process' of 'updating', and the lack of management oversight into the process, is a case study of just what is wrong with American corporations in general today (not a new problem).

We all know the drill. The 'customer' must be doing something wrong. Their must be something totally unforeseen happening. The 'next generation' of hardware will solve all the software hangups that have been created. The over-paid and simply lazy coders will have their 'nads pulled out of the fire at some point in the future by... whatever. The management will at some point be justified in their bloated salaries and incompetent... management. If one can call it that.

The only thing that keeps the entire mess from completely melting down (large numbers of customers fleeing for the hills) is that this is the 'new normal'. But at some point folks will wake up and decide that hanging on by their fingernails is not reasonable. It may take years, or a generation. 

But it will happen. All of us are simply 'along for the ride'. Move along. Nothing happening here. Move along.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

1948GG said:


> Many receiver/DVR machines, several generations (almost too many to count) of hardware ago back from what is now 'new', performed excellently 'at the time of their introduction'. Then the s/w coders, in an attempt to justify their continued employment, kept coming up with 'neat' additions to that 'base' code. Some ideas had merit, others were less so.
> 
> But NONE were adequately tested either by the coders or by a reasonable sample of customers. And, to make matters worse, there appeared to be no oversight of the process by any management that either took a even a cursory look at what had been done, or put in place a system to fully track customer complaints once it had been 'rolled out'.


I don't believe you have a clear understanding of the firmware testing process used for all new and existing DirecTV hardware. There is exponentially more testing that occurs, including both lab tests and field tests.

That said, the addition of sophisticated capabilities to any technology always introduces new and added risks to performance, reliability, and stability.

All of those factors are regularly assessed, addressed, and focus points through multiple means to improve shortcomings. There is also no doubt there are always going to be bumps in the road as new things roll out. That is not unique to DirecTV.

As a user of 9 different HD DVR models, 12 different Receivers, and 4 ancillary hardware devices with DirecTV in 3 different locations and over a 14 year period of time, I respectfully but significantly disagree with your depiction of the situation.


----------



## Marlin Guy

1948GG said:


> But NONE were adequately tested either by the coders or by a reasonable sample of customers.


I think you hit a big nail on the head here.
I participated in the testing programs on and off for several years.
Problems saw more work-arounds than they did fixes. Meanwhile, new features were piled on without properly addressing existing issues.
Those have now permeated the everyday user's experience with ridiculous recommendations of clearing caches and turning off features in order to improve performance.
That is not what the average user needs, and certainly not what he or she wants. Most people just want the equipment to work as advertised and to be able to watch TV.
Facebook, Youtube, Twitter, Pandora, and all of that are nice, if you have the hardware and horsepower to run them, but they should never be added on to a system that is unable to carry the load, and they should never EVER diminish the primary function of recording and watching television.


----------



## 1948GG

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I don't believe you have a clear understanding of the firmware testing process used for all new and existing DirecTV hardware. There is exponentially more testing that occurs, including both lab tests and field tests.





Marlin Guy said:


> I think you hit a big nail on the head here.
> I participated in the testing programs on and off for several years.
> Problems saw more work-arounds than they did fixes. Meanwhile, new features were piled on without properly addressing existing issues.
> Those have now permeated the everyday user's experience with ridiculous recommendations of clearing caches and turning off features in order to improve performance.


Now, herein lies the problem from a user/customer) standpoint. I think from the responses, that one can easily figure out which is saying 'move along, nothing to see here' and which is saying 'wait a minute, there is a systemic, deep rooted problem here'.

Which path does one think is going to reference the actual problem... or is there no problem at all?

This isn't the first/only really bad thing going on at DirecTV's operation by any means, it's simply the one being discussed on this thread.

The first thing to do is admit there is a problem. The fact that as I mentioned in my first message that at least twice in the past year s/w updates have yielded massive numbers of 'bricked' or nearly-bricked units in the customer base (where 'roll backs' have had to been initiated) shows that extremely serious problems exist in their software development process.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

1948GG said:


> *The first thing to do is admit there is a problem. * The fact that as I mentioned in my first message that at least twice in the past year s/w updates have yielded massive numbers of 'bricked' or nearly-bricked units in the customer base (where 'roll backs' have had to been initiated) shows that extremely serious problems exist in their software development process.


That's neither the issue nor the case.

The debate to your original statement is the process to address it and the depth of the testing process, which you significantly mis-characterized from reality.


----------



## Richierich

1948GG said:


> At the end of the day, everyone has to admit (if they are sane) that it all comes down to software.


I Disagree because if the Issue was Software alone then I would have Sluggishness on all 5 of my HR24-500s and I do not.

However, I have added Faster 2 TB WD20EADS Drives with a Larger 32Mb Cache so maybe it is a Hardware/Software Issue that I Resolved when I Replaced the Internal Drives in my HR24-500s with Faster ones with a Larger Cache Buffer Area.

Not saying that everyone should do as I do but if you did and could afford it would it solve your problem or at lease alleviate it to some extent?

I know so in my case!!!


----------



## mreposter

Richierich said:


> Not saying that everyone should do as I do but if you did and could afford it would it solve your problem or at lease alleviate it to some extent?


Customers shouldn't need to spend money to fix a problem created by Directv.


----------



## 242424

My HR20 downloaded the new software early this morning.


----------



## kosh56

mreposter said:


> Customers shouldn't need to spend money to fix a problem created by Directv.


Not only that, but try telling that to my in-laws who were at my house this weekend complaining about their slow DVR. They wouldn't have a clue.


----------



## kosh56

242424 said:


> My HR20 downloaded the new software early this morning.


What is the new software? Does it fix performance issues?


----------



## 242424

I hope so but I haven't used it much yet. Given their record on fixing stuff like this I don't have my hopes up very high.


----------



## Richierich

mreposter said:


> Customers shouldn't need to spend money to fix a problem created by Directv.


Didn't say that Directv Customers should pay more money to fix a problem caused by Directv but if you don't want to jump to Dish or Comcrap or whatever and you like Directv for everything but it's DVR Sluggishness than this is an Alternative, if you want to stay with Directv for other reasons.


----------



## carlsbad_bolt_fan

"kosh56" said:


> What is the new software? Does it fix performance issues?


I got it last week. Both of my HR20-700's seem to be working rather well. No delays/slowness. Some have reported they lost some settings when the new software was installed. Mine didn't have that problem.


----------



## Stuart Sweet

Gents and ladies, I've deleted several posts as they reference non-public matters.


----------



## Richierich

kosh56 said:


> What is the new software? Does it fix performance issues?


The Latest NR Software being Rolled out is 0x5c8.

Some have Reported that it helps the Speed Issue while causing some other unrelated Problems. :nono2:


----------



## skyboysea

Richierich said:


> I Disagree because if the Issue was Software alone then I would have Sluggishness on all 5 of my HR24-500s and I do not.
> 
> However, I have added Faster 2 TB WD20EADS Drives with a Larger 32Mb Cache so maybe it is a Hardware/Software Issue that I Resolved when I Replaced the Internal Drives in my HR24-500s with Faster ones with a Larger Cache Buffer Area.


The hardware, HR20-700 in my case, has been in existence for more than 5 years. After some initial problems, it was working fairly well. Not super fast but the performance was acceptable. Then comes a series of new FWs and the performance get worse and worse. Hardware didn't change, software did. What is the cause of the issue?

You changed your HW and it works with the new software but that doesn't mean that an unmodified HW is the problem. Directv should have stopped adding software features that require faster hardware; simple as that.


----------



## sigma1914

Maybe your hardware is crapping out.


----------



## harsh

hdtvfan0001 said:


> There is exponentially more testing that occurs, including both lab tests and field tests.


If the testing methodology isn't sound or the results aren't carefully considered, it doesn't much matter how numerous and/or diligent the testers are.


----------



## Marlin Guy

sigma1914 said:


> Maybe your hardware is crapping out.


 I had the HR20-700 as well, and I considered that possibility when mine was acting up too. But after coming to the forums and seeing the number of others complaining about the same issues, it was pretty clear to me that the issues weren't hardware failure related.
I think the hardware is merely overburdened. It's like a Windows machine running on minimum specs. Sure, it will run... if you have the time and patience.


----------



## RACJ2

Marlin Guy said:


> I think you hit a big nail on the head here.
> I participated in the testing programs on and off for several years.
> Problems saw more work-arounds than they did fixes. Meanwhile, new features were piled on without properly addressing existing issues.
> Those have now permeated the everyday user's experience with ridiculous recommendations of clearing caches and turning off features in order to improve performance.
> That is not what the average user needs, and certainly not what he or she wants. Most people just want the equipment to work as advertised and to be able to watch TV.
> Facebook, Youtube, Twitter, Pandora, and all of that are nice, if you have the hardware and horsepower to run them, but they should never be added on to a system that is unable to carry the load, and they should never EVER diminish the primary function of recording and watching television.


I'll be the first to admit, that my HR22 has had its share of issues with several of the releases. And that they may be adding too many features for the size of the processor. Except for the fact that my HR22 has all the new features and performs better then ever on the last version of the HD GUI. As of Sunday when I left home, it had not received the 0x5C8 release, which I hope doesn't break mine. You can look at the performance of my HR22 in these 3 videos: *[Video1],[Video2], [Video3]*. (In video1, I deleted the section with my receiver ID, so it appears as a black screen for a few seconds)


----------



## 1948GG

harsh said:


> If the testing methodology isn't sound or the results aren't carefully considered, it doesn't much matter how numerous and/or diligent the testers are.


Uh, BINGO.

Yesterday, I spent some time on a conference call with one of the MDU companies I do occasional engineering for, on this very subject (poor to 'bricked' responsive customer DVR's), with MDU support at DirecTV.

Some of DirecTV's responses were illustrative.

1. "We can trade out the units for new units"

When they were reminded that their policy (in force for forever) is that they can't offer specific models to customers, the line went silent for upwards of a minute. Especially as we were taking about some 1000+ DVR's.

2. "We don't maintain a log of customer complaints around any specific problems customers are experiencing"

another NO KIDDING, BINGO

3. "Even if we did, Engineer/Development staff wouldn't read the logs anyway"

Now there's a glint of truth there.

I've told my customer(s) that things simply are what they are, that these folks (and quite a number here on this forum) are living in an alternate reality.


----------



## Marlin Guy

RACJ2 said:


> As of Sunday when I left home, it had not received the 0x5C8 release, which I hope doesn't break mine.


I remember those days. It was like, "Oh God... what have they added now? How bad is it gonna be?"


----------



## Marlin Guy

1948GG said:


> 2. "We don't maintain a log of customer complaints around any specific problems customers are experiencing"
> 
> 3. "Even if we did, Engineer/Development staff wouldn't read the logs anyway"


Wow!
Those two are customer service suicide for any product/service based company. :eek2:


----------



## wahooq

Well I can honestly say that none of those responses are true. At least as from I hear and I work at an O&O site


----------



## hdtvfan0001

harsh said:


> If the testing methodology isn't sound or the results aren't carefully considered, it doesn't much matter how numerous and/or diligent the testers are.


Fact is both those things happen today. That comes right from the people who do the work.


----------



## 242424

My HR20-100 is working pretty well after the NR download from yesterday. #Surprised


----------



## John Strk

My HR20-100 also got the latest firmware update yesterday and is working much better. No more waiting several seconds to open the Playlist or delete recordings. We'll see how long it lasts


----------



## lparsons21

harsh said:


> If the testing methodology isn't sound or the results aren't carefully considered, it doesn't much matter how numerous and/or diligent the testers are.


So true. If the testing methodology was good, then some of these NRs shouldn't have ever been released, including this latest one if the reports in that thread are correct.

For those convinced the methodology is spot on, I would suggest you take a look at other software you get for different things to remind yourself that software doesn't have to be that glitchy.


----------



## kosh56

John Strk said:


> My HR20-100 also got the latest firmware update yesterday and is working much better. No more waiting several seconds to open the Playlist or delete recordings. We'll see how long it lasts


Mine is better as well. Not where I want it to be, but much better. I've been fooled many times though over the last 3 years. My commitment is up in mid-June. I'll see where things are at by then.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

lparsons21 said:


> For those convinced the methodology is spot on, I would suggest you take a look at other software you get for different things to remind yourself that software doesn't have to be that glitchy.


Testing procedures that are "spot on" in contrast to executed as a standard practice (which is what was originally challenged) are two different issues. Perfection doesn't exist, but best practices do.


----------



## Mike Greer

Richierich said:


> The Latest NR Software being Rolled out is 0x5c8.
> 
> Some have Reported that it helps the Speed Issue while causing some other unrelated Problems. :nono2:


I'll second that. I now have random audio issues...

Geez:nono2:


----------



## Mike Greer

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Testing procedures that are "spot on" in contrast to executed as a standard practice (which is what was originally challenged) are two different issues. Perfection doesn't exist, but best practices do.


They went NR with 0x5c8 when they knew there were several obvious issues with it weeks ago. That may be 'best practice' for DirecTV but seems idiotic to me!


----------



## lparsons21

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Testing procedures that are "spot on" in contrast to executed as a standard practice (which is what was originally challenged) are two different issues. Perfection doesn't exist, but best practices do.


You are correct, perfection doesn't exist, but 'best practices' should not be allowing glitchy software to be released. And that, unfortunately, happens far too often with D*.

I've done beta testing for other companies in the past, and was a programmer for a bit myself, and software that was released by the company I worked for, and the software I beta tested didn't go to the end user until it was in much better condition than these recent NRs. That says to me that the 'best practices' as espoused by D* is missing something.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

lparsons21 said:


> You are correct, perfection doesn't exist, but 'best practices' should not be allowing glitchy software to be released. And that, unfortunately, happens far too often with D*.
> 
> I've done beta testing for other companies in the past, and was a programmer for a bit myself, and software that was released by the company I worked for, and the software I beta tested didn't go to the end user until it was in much better condition than these recent NRs. That says to me that the 'best practices' as espoused by D* is missing something.


In theory and basic principal, you are correct.

If fact, complex software is virtually impossible to be 100% bug free. That said, testing quality control is a must.

In some cases, NR's are issued for business-related reasons, which conflicts with having the full testing cycles completed. That's the only situation I struggle with.


----------



## lparsons21

hdtvfan0001 said:


> In theory and basic principal, you are correct.
> 
> If fact, complex software is virtually impossible to be 100% bug free. That said, testing quality control is a must.
> 
> In some cases, NR's are issued for business-related reasons, which conflicts with having the full testing cycles completed. That's the only situation I struggle with.


Back in the day... I was writing accounting software for small businesses and releasing that to them without all the math being right just wasn't a consideration. That said, I do understand the business reasons that can and do impact release.

In this latest NR case, the bugs introduced seem to be more user viewable and irritating than just the remote response/sluggishness issues. Seems to be a really poor 'solution' to an ongoing problem. Kind of like 'we need to at least appear to be doing something' instead of holding off until it is in much better, or less visibly a problem.

It is a damn shame that for all that D* does right, that allowing the end result to be a poor performing piece of equipment, for whatever reason, makes so many at minimum irritated as hell!


----------



## hdtvfan0001

lparsons21 said:


> In this latest NR case, the bugs introduced seem to be more user viewable and irritating than just the remote response/sluggishness issues. Seems to be a really poor 'solution' to an ongoing problem. Kind of like 'we need to at least appear to be doing something' instead of holding off until it is in much better, or less visibly a problem.


I don't think anyone can deny the fact that the introduction of the new HD user interface didn't come with a price - not enough time was there to get it right at the outset. In a world of instant gratification, that annoys some people no doubt.

As someone who has been involved directly with multi-Million dollar software for many years (not DirecTV)...I also know the realities of what a new UI brings. We actually went through this same process ourselves in the past few years at work. I guess seeing these things firsthand puts expectations and results in a more realistic perspective.

All that said, the average user has almost no clue, and generally doesn't care how complex or challenging all the moving parts are to deliver successfully. They only care about using it, and it being as trouble-free as possible. That's fair.

All I am saying is the balance between wanting more year after year in terms of capabilities and then delivering them is a very tricky and delicate trade off as time marches on.

You can have the best testing process in the world and simply cannot replicate the millions of possible environment and user configurable combinations in a lab or even significant field testing. As technology and requirements get more sophisticated, this process only grows in being a challenge.

None of this is unique to DirecTV. That's not to make excuses or justify a bad user experience...this is simply to point out some realities. *DirecTV has to perform well when it comes out to meeting customer expectations*, or they'll lose them. Then again, that holds true for anyone in this industry.

One thing I have learned is that specific issues feedback is the quickest way to get problems resolved ( is not whining, complaining, or general statements of dis-satisfaction. People can choose be a direct part of the solutions by *reporting issues thoroughly*, in contrast to hopping on the complaint bandwagon. Some folks do this, while others choose not to participate.

Since we live in a "I want everything now and it has to be just about perfect" world...anything short of that expectation gets amplified when it fails those criteria. If folks look into the new thread about the latest National Release firmware rollout....I think they'll see some significant progress is being made.

The one thing *we all share *as users is...we all want to enjoy our viewing experiences.


----------



## lparsons21

hdtvfan0001 said:


> All I am saying is the balance between wanting more year after year in terms of capabilities and then delivering them is a very tricky and delicate trade off as time marches on.


This really highlights what I perceive as a real problem issue. The choice was to get the basics of the HDDVR down rock solid and only when that was accomplished, add some trivial crap like Pandora and others to it.

Not because those trivial things impact performance, but because adding them took valuable programming time away from the basics at an inopportune time.

And frankly, other than here and other SAT discussion sites, I've never seen or heard anyone that cared a bit about TVapps and such. Heck, many of my friends and family with D* don't even know they are there. They just watch TV and record a show or three.

So where did D* get the feedback that said these were needed/wanted/desired? Here? But we always say we aren't the target market and are such a small part of it. So why would they want to pay attention to 'us' for these things? Or did they do some market research that indicates that the majority of the market wants these non-TV watching things added? And if they did, how did they word the questions?


----------



## hdtvfan0001

lparsons21 said:


> This really highlights what I perceive as a real problem issue. The choice was to get the basics of the HDDVR down rock solid and only when that was accomplished, add some trivial crap like Pandora and others to it.


One man's "crap" is another man's "need" or "want". There are other threads on this site alone raving about how great the addition of Pandora is to the HD DVR capabilities. I'm much less enthusiast, but understand some folks might adore it.

From my view, its liking adding new HD channels. I welcome all of them, even if I don't personally plan to watch them all....because someone will enjoy them, and I prefer not to look at thing selfishly.

I surely don't have any urgent need for a number of things that get introduced over time, but then, others find the very same things "very important" to their decision to choose a provider. Different strokes I suppose.

What I have seen after 14+ years as a DirecTV customer is that this industry seems to move quickly and competitively on many fronts. That lends itself to pros and cons in terms of costs, changes, and "progress". No disputing that either.


----------



## lparsons21

hdtvfan0001 said:


> One man's "crap" is another man's "need" or "want". There are other threads on this site alone raving about how great the addition of Pandora is to the HD DVR capabilities. I'm much less enthusiast, but understand some folks might adore it.


I understand. And from a purely perfect solution standpoint, I don't care what they add to the basics.

My point was more that the basics were not at all rock solid, and the vast majority of users want the basics to work with no issues, many more than want the add-ons I suspect. The priorities should have been basics nearly perfect and then add stuff to it. They didn't do that and to me that is a big error in decision making.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

lparsons21 said:


> I understand. And from a purely perfect solution standpoint, I don't care what they add to the basics.
> 
> My point was more that the basics were not at all rock solid, and the vast majority of users want the basics to work with no issues, many more than want the add-ons I suspect. The priorities should have been basics nearly perfect and then add stuff to it. They didn't do that and to me that is a big error in decision making.


We both agree in the end...the user experience should be enjoyable and not having to contend with bugs. Same page.


----------



## skyboysea

sigma1914 said:


> Maybe your hardware is crapping out.


Replaced it 2 month ago.


----------



## sigma1914

skyboysea said:


> Replaced it 2 month ago.


Hmm... that's not what it sounds like here:


skyboysea said:


> The hardware, HR20-700 in *my case*, has been in existence for *more than 5 years*. After some initial problems, it was working fairly well. Not super fast but the performance was acceptable. Then comes a series of new FWs and the performance get worse and worse. Hardware didn't change, software did....


Why replace old HR20-700 with the same and not new HR24s?


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## skyboysea

hdtvfan0001 said:


> In some cases, NR's are issued for business-related reasons, which conflicts with having the full testing cycles completed. That's the only situation I struggle with.


What kind of business decide to release an inferior product just to have some barely working function to spin in its marketing campaign? I would dare to say a business that is not going to be in business for long.

I have no insight on all Directv procedures and I don't know were the fault is. I know that the last NR has a bug that no testing should have missed. As it has the one before this, and the one before that. If the software testing is as good as you claim, and I have some hard time to believe it, the problem might be even worse because it means that the all company is a mess.


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## plewis

Has anyone tried out the eSata on the new HMC - HR34 to use a 2TB HD rather than the 1TB internal? Perhaps better to just swap out the 1TB internal with a clean 2TB, but I'd rather not open up the box on the HR34 when it's so new of a device. has anyone done either of these upgrades??
Thanks


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## Stuart Sweet

Yes, a 2TB will work but opening the box is against your customer agreement.


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## skyboysea

hdtvfan0001 said:


> One thing I have learned is that specific issues feedback is the quickest way to get problems resolved ( is not whining, complaining, or general statements of dis-satisfaction. People can choose be a direct part of the solutions by *reporting issues thoroughly*, in contrast to hopping on the complaint bandwagon. Some folks do this, while others choose not to participate.


Let see, I call Directv to report the problem and they tell me that there is no problem. Unless I call to cancel service I cannot talk to a person who even try to understand my problem. How is Directv making possible for me to be part of the solution? Are you talking of the program we cannot discuss here and since we cannot discuss here I cannot tell you what I think about it?


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## skyboysea

sigma1914 said:


> Hmm... that's not what it sounds like here:
> 
> Why replace old HR20-700 with the same and not new HR24s?


Feel free to ask that question to Directv. My old HR20-700 was 5 weeks older than the replacement they sent me.


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## sigma1914

skyboysea said:


> Feel free to ask that question to Directv. My old HR20-700 was 5 weeks older than the replacement they sent me.


You're a veteran here... you know how to get a HR24.


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## hdtvfan0001

skyboysea said:


> What kind of business decide to release an inferior product just to have some barely working function to spin in its marketing campaign? I would dare to say a business that is not going to be in business for long.


WOW.

That post contains so many contrarian views in a single post...there aren't enough bread crumbs for me to find my way back home.


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## skyboysea

sigma1914 said:


> You're a veteran here... you know how to get a HR24.


I sure know how to get an HR24 and it might solve my problem. But if Directv business methods do not change, there is no way to say that in six month I am at the same point. New FW, new functionality and a slow receiver.

What is coming out from this discussion seem to me a critique of Directv business practice from CSR not trained to handle problems to the quality of the products. The slow receivers are just a symptom of a bigger problem.


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## harsh

hdtvfan0001 said:


> That post contains so many contrarian views in a single post...there aren't enough bread crumbs for me to find my way back home.


Yet it seems to be entirely inline with what you and lparsons21 agreed upon (post 708): near bulletproof DVR functionality _before_ adding enhancements. The only real departure seems to be that skyboysea went on to assign the blame for the "business decision" to a particular DIRECTV department.


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## skyboysea

hdtvfan0001 said:


> WOW.
> 
> That post contains so many contrarian views in a single post...there aren't enough bread crumbs for me to find my way back home.


WOW indeed. Pity that you aren't able to point out any of this contrarian views. Maybe because there is none.


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## lugnutathome

Interesting intellectual tussling going about here. Both sides have merit but I'd bet there are reasons we are where we are at. 

The competitive nature of the industry forces development to release in absurdly short timespans and frequently instead of "miss Right" we get "miss Right Now". Likely based on a spreadsheet that has a churn figure applied to another spreadsheet that shows avg time to iron out bugs.

I'd expect these issues to clear themselves in a relatively short time frame as in likely a month or two but keep in mind there are changes being made we don't see.

DECA was implemented as a phase one spec as I recall and there was at least a design plan to expand its current limits (this is really the RVU spec IIRC). To double the capacity using the same bandwidth, and physical memory requirements would require some creative reworking on a platform already in flight.

Of course that is mere speculation on my part, there are a myriad of other things in order to stay competitive and leverage existing equipment where possible that are having to be worked into the already in flight equipment.

It becomes a balancing act but really. I do get impatient with a slow receiver once in awhile but then I think back when changing the channel meant getting up and walking across the room to turn a knob. To see a program listing required a newspaper or an expensive TV guide subscription. and we had maybe 10 or less channels.

We've come a long way and though yes we pay for it really you are getting the programs in amazing clarity and sound without having to go for the tin foil or adjust the antenna after each channel change. It truly is light years ahead of TV even 10 years ago.

So if a spreadsheet projects say a < 1% loss for a quarter on subscribers dropping the service due to some of these receiver issues, and another projects a 3% gain buy adding and marketing new features well. . . Think about the math with 30 million subscribers even the 1% and 3% POOMA (Pulled Out Of My A**) numbers I made up, that's a whole lot of money per month.

When I look at the changes Direct TV has implemented over the last 6 years I've had them, there have been things that torqued me big time but in the end I get *tons* of programming in near perfect HD, with good quality digital audio, ability to view a program recorded in one room in any room equipped with an HD receiver or DVR, and may other features that I personally could care less about but I'm typically in the minority on such matters. I feel like I need to maintain perspective.

Don "We have some of the coolest toys here right now" Bolton


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## rick390

Rob77 said:


> These receivers take forever to change channels or any other function. Shouldn't they provide free upgrades to provide decent service?? After all....many of us do not have the advantage of getting free units like some people on DBSTalk do


I have HR21 i think, its fairly new and I also just got a new hd/dvr receiver. Both are experiencing long lag times between channel changes. The screen goes completely black for 5 seconds or longer. DTV told me to go into my settings and turn "scrolling effects" off and also turn off "native". I did turn them both off but it only improves the situation a little. It still takes an unacceptable amount of time to change between channels.


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## MysteryMan

rick390 said:


> I have HR21 i think, its fairly new and I also just got a new hd/dvr receiver. Both are experiencing long lag times between channel changes. The screen goes completely black for 5 seconds or longer. DTV told me to go into my settings and turn "scrolling effects" off and also turn off "native". I did turn them both off but it only improves the situation a little. It still takes an unacceptable amount of time to change between channels.


Try this. Go to channel 1. Wait for it to load. Using the remote rapidly press Red Red Blue Blue Yellow Green. On the lower left of the screen you should see NVRAM/Flash is cleared. Should speed up your receiver.


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## hdtvfan0001

Richierich said:


> I thought he was a Directv Customer according to his Profile Info.


:lol:

Ok...so back to topic and maybe back to the OP (now almost a month old information).

In the end, every DirecTV customer should have the reasonable expectation to get both good quality service and good customer service. It would seem the OP doesn't feel like they have. While many of us may have alternative experiences, I respect the OP right to have his own opinion.

Another thread on this topic indicates a new National firmware release has already started...and there appear to be many reports there that the performance issues indicated by the OP may have now been addressed. Hopefully that is the case.

Maybe we should just look at things along those lines. Otherwise, there doesn't appear a whole lot more to add at this point. :shrug:


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## sigma1914

It's interesting that no one has posted videos about how slow their receivers are. I'd really like to see the 10-15+ channel changes, 30 second guide loads, etc.


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## hasan

sigma1914 said:


> It's interesting that no one has posted videos about how slow their receivers are. I'd really like to see the 10-15+ channel changes, 30 second guide loads, etc.


If my word, as an established member of these forums from before Santa on the HR20-700 is not acceptable, then I have nothing further to contribute.


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## Marlin Guy

sigma1914 said:


> It's interesting that no one has posted videos about how slow their receivers are. I'd really like to see the 10-15+ channel changes, 30 second guide loads, etc.


I tried getting video on it a couple of times, but my SD card filled up before the channel finally changed.


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## Mike Bertelson

I just cleaned up a bunch of crap, whining, and just plain thread crapping. 

KEEP ON TOPIC. BE RESPECTFUL. BE CIVIL.

Infractions and thread bans are next. 

Mike


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## sigma1914

hasan said:


> If my word, as an established member of these forums from before Santa on the HR20-700 is not acceptable, then I have nothing further to contribute.


No one believed those of us without these "horrible" slow downs, so a couple of us provided video. I respect your posts, but it's not personal.


Marlin Guy said:


> I tried getting video on it a couple of times, but my SD card filled up before the channel finally changed.


Such a hilarious jokester.


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## Podkayne

I received the latest update on my HR 20 / 100 and I'm pleased to report that my beloved DVR has been restored to it's former self.  The only oddity was the need to cold boot the DVR because it was unresponsive even to button pushes after the download (discovered it the following day). I was then greeted with the message that whole-home had been activated on my receiver. All of my previous resolutions and settings were untouched.

I get the list now in under two seconds, deletes from list are instant, in general everything is restored.

Nice job with this one...couldn't be more pleased.


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## Marlin Guy

Setup links in sigs can be illuminating. :cuttle:


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## dpeters11

"Marlin Guy" said:


> Setup links in sigs can be illuminating. :cuttle:


I actually wish more would put them, would make troubleshooting easier, if they are up to date.


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## sigma1914

Marlin Guy said:


> Setup links in sigs can be illuminating. :cuttle:


How so?


dpeters11 said:


> I actually wish more would put them, would make troubleshooting easier, if they are up to date.


Agreed!


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## RACJ2

sigma1914 said:


> How so?


Sigma1914, I have one question. Have you read whats in your signature line lately?


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## Stuart Sweet

Folks, this thread has just plain gone on too long. 

Firmware 05c9 is rolling out now. If it doesn't fix your receiver issues then please post in the issues and discussion thread. 

There is nothing wrong with ranting or complaining but when you start turning on each other, infractions will be issued and threads closed. 

Such as, this one.


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