# Off-Air Tuner Signal Strength



## Matt Beachy (Jun 15, 2006)

I have the VIP622 receiver. When running my off-air antennae through the 622 tuner, I get a much weaker signal on most of the channels than when running it through my tv's internal tuner. For instance, running my antennae directly into my tv's tuner (sony) I get a signal strength in the 80's for the local nbc affiliate with no interruptions in the picture. Running the antennae into the 622 receiver, the nbc affiliate signal strength drops into the 60's and often I cannot view the channel or it frequently feezes. This is frustrating if I want to DVR something on the locals. Has anyone else experienced this? Do I have a faulty receiver?


----------



## interpol (May 9, 2006)

I’ve noticed quite the opposite. I had both a Dish 6000 HD receiver and an RCA DTC-100 HD receiver; both were very flakey getting a stable HD signal… I use an internal Terk antenna, and I had to re-orient it to pick up certain channels. Same antenna with the 622 works with no problems, signal strength is always over 80%.


----------



## Rodsman (Jan 29, 2005)

Heya Matt,

I have the same issue as you. I have an atennae mounted on my roof and if I run it straight into my 622, the signal strength is much less than what I see if I run it directly into my Sony WEGA (the PQ is better I think with ota than with the HD locals I now get with my 622 so I want to watch ota sometimes). Last week, I split the line and get great reception with the Sony but now I get zero reception for any station through the 622. I haven't had time to play with that issue yet but for each ota station, I now receive an error message that says there is no signal whatsoever. Anyone else seen this, i.e., a complete loss of reception for every station by splitting the line? I'm in the DC metro area and receive ABC, CBS, FOX, UPN and WB very well although my NBC reception can be off and on. Splitting is not completely necessary but sometimes I want to be able to do that.


----------



## Matt Beachy (Jun 15, 2006)

Rodsman,

You may want to consider using an A/B switch rather than splitting the line. You get a decent amount of signal loss when you run through a splitter.

Interesting that you're experiencing the same signal loss when going from a sony tv to the 622. Maybe sony just makes a far superior tuner. Unfortunately for me getting the HD locals through Dish isn't an option yet.


----------



## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

One thing to keep in mind is that those signal strength meters are really only of value relative to other channels within the same tuner. You can't compare a 60 on one meter to an 80 on another and get any reasonable comparison of what that means, since there is no standard for signal strength meters being employed.

Having said that... it does seem to indicate your TV has a better ability to lock onto some channels than the Dish tuner. This *could* indicate a problem with your Dish receiver, I have heard a few people that had faulty tuners in their first units on threads elsewhere here on the forum.

I don't have a tuner in my HDTV, but I have another separate standalone HD tuner... and sometimes see differences in what it locks to vs my Dish receiver but I'm still on my 6000 so I can't compare to your ViP experiences.


----------



## Rogueone (Jan 29, 2004)

yeah, i was going to say, that if the OTA tuner is like the sat tuner, 60 isn't 60 out of 100, but out of 125, etc. on the 622, so the numbers are not percentages of signal strength it would seem. 

I'd consider HDMe's suggestion as well, it's possible Sony just puts a whopper of a tuner in their TV, but the 622 I wouldn't think should be that far off.


----------



## Matt Beachy (Jun 15, 2006)

HDMe said:


> One thing to keep in mind is that those signal strength meters are really only of value relative to other channels within the same tuner. You can't compare a 60 on one meter to an 80 on another and get any reasonable comparison of what that means, since there is no standard for signal strength meters being employed.


I wouldn't care what the signal strength meter said as long as I could get a good picture. The real problem is that I can watch the local NBC station just fine running through my tv tuner but it is hit or miss (most often miss) running it through my 622 tuner.


----------



## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

Rodsman said:


> Heya Matt,
> 
> Last week, I split the line and get great reception with the Sony but now I get zero reception for any station through the 622. I haven't had time to play with that issue yet but for each ota station, I now receive an error message that says there is no signal whatsoever.


Rodsman,

Better than getting an A/B switch, just get a cheap in-line distribution amplifier from radio shack or other distribuitor. This will add a little db to maintain or increase signal strength that is going to each receiver. This is working well for me. I tried your way with a splitter and I got the same zero results.

John


----------



## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

HDMe said:


> One thing to keep in mind is that those signal strength meters are really only of value relative to other channels within the same tuner. You can't compare a 60 on one meter to an 80 on another and get any reasonable comparison of what that means, since there is no standard for signal strength meters being employed.
> 
> Having said that... it does seem to indicate your TV has a better ability to lock onto some channels than the Dish tuner. This *could* indicate a problem with your Dish receiver, I have heard a few people that had faulty tuners in their first units on threads elsewhere here on the forum.
> 
> I don't have a tuner in my HDTV, but I have another separate standalone HD tuner... and sometimes see differences in what it locks to vs my Dish receiver but I'm still on my 6000 so I can't compare to your ViP experiences.


My understanding is that the signal indicator is a signal strength to error ratio so it is just not measuring signal strength. Also the 622 is a scale of 0-100 not 0-125 like the 921 so you will see a difference of about 20 points between the two.

I am getting numbers in the 80s where I was seeing them up around 100 with my 921. I see similar numbers on my 811.

So with the exact same cable plugging in to your Sony vs. your Dish you get good lock with your Sony and not your Dish. I do know that if my Signals start to get into the low 60s I start to get more breakup. If they drop below 60, things get ugly quickly.


----------



## stol (May 31, 2006)

I have a Samsung, and I have not noticed any less signal strenth with the 622. The OTA in Detroit used to drop on my TV at night, but I just pointed the antenna better to get a stronger signal.


----------



## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I can only speak to Dish experiences with my 6000u and OTA... but the signal strength indicator isn't always the most important thing.

Channels I have 85-100 on via the "strength" indicator seem to be fairly solid and lock quickly even if there is fluctuation in the signal.

My PBS locks pretty solid anywhere from 65-70 reliably.

Recently my UPN station upped its power output so I'm getting 80-90 on it, but I used to get just barely 50-60 on it.

Now here's the thing... Those channels I usually get 85-100 on... start to break up anything less than 80!

My PBS breaks up under 65.

My UPN would lock solid at 55! Now it locks higher because of the increased power from the station... but the point here is, I could lock that channel solid on 55 but couldn't lock any of the other stations at a signal that low.

So to some extent I've learned to not entirely pay attention to those signal "strength" values given by the receiver.

Now... one thing I have noticed... The 6000u doesn't seem to re-lock on a channel once tuned. By this, I mean... if I tune there and it locks on 75, then I keep a 75 signal that may break up... but if I channel down then back up, and it locks on 85 then I am solid. IF a bird flies by or whatever and the signal drops and it loses and re-locks to a lower signal, it doesn't ever seem to retry and lock at a higher signal when able to do so.

Perhaps your TV is smarter... and retries periodically for a better lock and that makes it more reliable as well? Just random thinking here.


----------



## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

boylehome said:


> Rodsman,
> 
> Better than getting an A/B switch, just get a cheap in-line distribution amplifier from radio shack or other distribuitor. This will add a little db to maintain or increase signal strength that is going to each receiver. This is working well for me. I tried your way with a splitter and I got the same zero results.
> 
> John


I would go with a pre-amp like a CM7777 or 7775 for fringe or a Winegard HDP-269 for urban settings at the antenna so you do not amplify the degradation induced in the cable. I have had several Radio Shack distribution amps and would not buy another.

Every time you introduce a splitter into a cable run you cut the signal strength by at least half.


----------



## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

Jim5506 said:


> I would go with a pre-amp like a CM7777 or 7775 for fringe or a Winegard HDP-269 for urban settings at the antenna so you do not amplify the degradation induced in the cable. I have had several Radio Shack distribution amps and would not buy another.


This is an excellent solution as long as there isn't nearby interference that the pre-amps are good at adding to a clean signal. I used a HDP-269 which introduced noise and affected some of my digital channels, and for the close stations, it over drove them to where I needed to insert attenuation which reduced the distant signals. The distribution amp is a much better solution for my environment and it is easy to try.


----------



## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

HDMe said:


> One thing to keep in mind is that those signal strength meters are really only of value relative to other channels within the same tuner. You can't compare a 60 on one meter to an 80 on another and get any reasonable comparison of what that means, since there is no standard for signal strength meters being employed. ...


Exactly!


----------



## Matt Beachy (Jun 15, 2006)

SaltiDawg said:


> Exactly!


Let me reiterate, I wouldn't care if the signal meter said 25 as long as I consistently got a quality picture. My problem is that some channels that I get a good, consistent signal from when running into my tv's tuner turn into problem channels when running through my 622 tuner.


----------



## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

Matt Beachy said:


> Let me reiterate, I wouldn't care if the signal meter said 25 as long as I consistently got a quality picture. My problem is that some channels that I get a good, consistent signal from when running into my tv's tuner turn into problem channels when running through my 622 tuner.


Let me quote you...
"I have the VIP622 receiver. When running my off-air antennae through the 622 tuner, I get a much weaker signal on most of the channels than when running it through my tv's internal tuner. For instance, running my antennae directly into my tv's tuner (sony) I get a signal strength in the 80's for the local nbc affiliate with no interruptions in the picture. Running the antennae into the 622 receiver, the nbc affiliate signal strength drops into the 60's and often I cannot view the channel or it frequently feezes."

For a second I thought you were comparing your TV's 80's to the 622's 60's.

Oh wait, you were. lol


----------



## Matt Beachy (Jun 15, 2006)

SaltiDawg said:


> Let me quote you...
> "I have the VIP622 receiver. When running my off-air antennae through the 622 tuner, I get a much weaker signal on most of the channels than when running it through my tv's internal tuner. For instance, running my antennae directly into my tv's tuner (sony) I get a signal strength in the 80's for the local nbc affiliate with no interruptions in the picture. Running the antennae into the 622 receiver, the nbc affiliate signal strength drops into the 60's and *often I cannot view the channel or it frequently feezes*."
> 
> For a second I thought you were comparing your TV's 80's to the 622's 60's.
> ...


Hey genious, notice the bolded text when I say that I often cannot view the channel or it freezes. Sure takes a Phd to figure out that the unfortunate part of the situation is that I'm not able to view the channel properly when it runs through the 622. Your contribution to this thread is top notch!

Also, if you'd read through the whole thread you'd see that i later said "I wouldn't care what the signal strength meter said as long as I could get a good picture. The real problem is that I can watch the local NBC station just fine running through my tv tuner but it is hit or miss (most often miss) running it through my 622 tuner."


----------



## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

Matt Beachy said:


> Hey genious, (sic) ...


 lol

So you felt the need to post the TV's number and the 622's number for what purpose?


----------



## ctshead (Jan 3, 2006)

Matt,

I agree the ATSC tuner in the 622 is not the best. I have an amplified VHF/UHF antenna that has a splitter to my TV (Syntax Olevia HD LCD) and the 622, and the TV's ATSC tuner much better at holding on to the signal, but the 622 ATSC tuner does lock on and display the picture faster when I change channels.


----------



## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

ctshead said:


> Matt,
> 
> I agree the ATSC tuner in the 622 is not the best. I have an amplified VHF/UHF antenna that has a splitter to my TV (Syntax Olevia HD LCD) and the 622, and the TV's ATSC tuner much better at holding on to the signal, but the 622 ATSC tuner does lock on and display the picture faster when I change channels.


I have a similar set up to a 37" Panasonic Plasma and at that relatively small screen size can see no difference. We also get the HD locals from the Sat and that picture also looks identical to the OTA's. Others with larger screens frequently report the Sat provided HD locals do not look as sharp as OTA.


----------



## wingnut1 (Nov 10, 2005)

Hey Matt, no need to be rude. Are you using a splitter or diplexer in the signal chain between your antennae and the 622? These will weaken your signal and the more you have the more they cut down on the signal. How long is the cable run from your antennae to the 622? Long cable runs will have an impact. Is the antennae you have appropriate for your area and distance to the signal source. Is it aimed appropriately?


----------



## Matt Beachy (Jun 15, 2006)

wingnut1 said:


> Hey Matt, no need to be rude. Are you using a splitter or diplexer in the signal chain between your antennae and the 622? These will weaken your signal and the more you have the more they cut down on the signal. How long is the cable run from your antennae to the 622? Long cable runs will have an impact. Is the antennae you have appropriate for your area and distance to the signal source. Is it aimed appropriately?


Here's my setup: I've got a Channel Master 4228 antenna with about 50' of coax (quad-shield rg-6) to the tv. I'm also using a Channel Master 7775 preamp. There are no splitters or diplexers involved. I tried it without the preamp, but I seem to get a little better result with it on. I've played around with the direction the antenna is aimed based on antennaweb.org and seem to have the direction optimized.


----------

