# Disgusted with People's attitudes



## enforcer (Jun 27, 2003)

Gentleman,
Over the past few months, I have read posts concerning DISH and their HD lineup. Ok I have a few things I have to get off my chest.

1. I am amazed how people are so impatient dealing with HD. Yes I can hardly wait myself, but I am willing to stick with Charlie and Echostar just for the simple fact that I enjoy Dish Nework and their programming thus far.

2. For those individuals who are switching to Directv, just for the simple fact of HD programming, I am just disgusted. Yes, I do realize that people want the most for their buck, and so do I. However, switching just because of Charlie and Echostar dealing with their delays just outrages me. I am die hard Dish Network fan. I have had D* and E* and as for customer service, reliability, ease of use, DISH network has it hands down. 

3. For those people who are switching just becuase of ESPN-HD, well quite frankly I will refrain from saying what I think from some of you people. I am a sports nut myself, I am guilty as well, but switchin networks just because of one HD channel is just ridiculus. I do realize Charlie and Echostar have promised HD and the new receiver lineup to its customer base. I do realize that it has taken a while to integrate what charlie wants and what the customer base wants. People, I have to say being in business myself there are aspects of economics that must be considered before anything can be launched to the general public much less to R&D. Charlie and company have diligently worked hard to get the HD programming on board. 

I am sorry if I have offended anyone, wait I'm not sorry. I am sure some of the users out there are saying, well I have every right to switch, and you do. However, when you switch from company to company you are only making it harder on yourself in the long run. It's all about business. Charlie and Echostar are in a business, and so is Directv. My feelings on this subject are very strong and I cannot stand people who have zero patience. It's gonna be awhile folks, just stick with it. 

Scott, this is addressed to you. I believe you are doing a terrific job with this board. You and Chris have made my experience much more enjoyable just because of this board. I have personally signed up 9 people to Dish Network and have told people about DBStalk.com. Keep up the good work. 

As for me, I believe this will be the last post I will be making on DBStalk.com. I am sick of hearing people whine and complain about ESPN-HD. Like I said before, I can't wait either, but i am a loyal customer and WILL NOT switch just because of one channel. Charlie has offered alot, just give the man some time. I am 99.9 percent sure no one on this board is a CEO of a Fortune 500 company, nor do they know the stress that goes along with running a company such as E*. Give Charlie some slack and bare with him, he will deliver I assure you. Key word here is "patience". 

I am sorry for the rant, but I had to get some things off my chest. Thanks.


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## AndyMon (Jun 12, 2003)

I hope that thread that you're hanging on by doesn't stretch too tightly and snap. Really. (sigh)


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## Cyclone (Jul 1, 2002)

Yeah, don't take anything here seriously. Let the complainers rant. Thats what the internet is for.


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## enforcer (Jun 27, 2003)

Cyclone said:


> Yeah, don't take anything here seriously. Let the complainers rant. Thats what the internet is for.


I didn't mean for my comments seem to be complaining. I just get sick of reading people talking about this stuff. I was simply stating my opinion. I just wish people would re-think things sometimes.


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## Cyclone (Jul 1, 2002)

hehe, I didn't mean you. I meant the others.


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

Good rant - I wish I had said that. Maybe I will. 

Don't leave. We need more members with levels heads. Just ignore the moaners and groaners.
.
.


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## Lee L (Aug 15, 2002)

While, I have not changed over to DirecTV, if someone can get all the same SD channels they care about for roughly the same cost and they can get additional HD channels they want by switching from Dish, why in the world would that make someone else angry?


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## boba (May 23, 2003)

Enforcer are you calling J D Powers a liar for 2 years in a row they said Directv offers better customer service than DISH. As a DISH and Directv dealer I believe DISH'S customer service has slipped and Directv has improved. I also have found Directv's product generally works as designed and DISH is still trying to write software that does what they claimed the product will do. Picture wise Directv has less problems with my local channels, (all on one satellite for a starter) DISH's over compression has shown up as picture freezes on locals and national channels. I admit the glitches and freezes are very brief but I see them and it makes it harder to sell the quality of DISH'S broadcast.


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## sampatterson (Aug 27, 2002)

Hope it isn't your last post. But unfortunately, it doesn't matter which board you are on. I recently watched a huge flame happen over someone's choice of cooking spray on a cooking forum. I had to laugh as their subject matter compared to the subject matter of some of the political threads in the potpourri forum on this board was nothing in comparison.

I try to keep an open mind and believe what I want to believe instead of getting caught up in too much griping (but I guess I gripe occasionally on this forum also)...


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## enforcer (Jun 27, 2003)

boba said:


> Enforcer are you calling J D Powers a liar for 2 years in a row they said Directv offers better customer service than DISH. As a DISH and Directv dealer I believe DISH'S customer service has slipped and Directv has improved. I also have found Directv's product generally works as designed and DISH is still trying to write software that does what they claimed the product will do. Picture wise Directv has less problems with my local channels, (all on one satellite for a starter) DISH's over compression has shown up as picture freezes on locals and national channels. I admit the glitches and freezes are very brief but I see them and it makes it harder to sell the quality of DISH'S broadcast.


Ok, I am not starting anything here. But I will defend my stance on this issue. This is directed soley to you Boba. I personally don't care what J.D. Powers thinks. Quite frankly after seeing some of the projects they have judged and tested, and being the gullable person that I was, I went out and bought the project just because of their lies about certain projects. I am not going into what products since they have no issue here. LIke i said in my first post, I have had both D* and E*. Every person I come across that is interested in DBS, I ALWAYS point them to Dish.

I am going to let some of you people out there that seem to ALWAYS have bad encounter with Dish in on a little secret that I hope you would realize. When you call Dish or whatever business anywhere, and are rude to the CSR or manager or whomever, you WILL NOT get the satisfaction that you are seeking. I have been involved in this type of business for awhile and I keep telling people be more respectful. Directv may have good customer service and realibility, but I personally and along with 9 other satisfied customers that I have signed on have absolutely no problems. They even made it a point to me how friendly Dish help actually is. My father is a prime candidate. Not very techny savy, but he is trying. I installed his dish, adjusted his signal and he was ready to go. He called to activate his account and within minutes he was overjoyed. I am sorry for the rant again, just wanted to defend my opinion.

Directv is a good company, there is no doubt about that. However, I now base my opinions and experimentations soley on hands on experience and gather others as well. Thats why I made the comment on the customer service. Regretfully some subs have problems just like chevy's "lol sorry had to put that in there. If people like directv for their customer service and ease of use, fine go ahead. I am saying switching companies for the primary reason of ESPN-HD is ludacris. Show's how impatient people are anymore. Boba I respect your comments and I have no intention of defaming you or trying to one up you. Just defending my claim. No hard feelings?? Hope not. I like friendly debates when they are worth discussing. Take Care.


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## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

Hey Matt, Stick around

Yes we have some interesting characters here, and some of them can be downright annoying at times, we have others who just love to come in and bash one company in favor of another one, it just goes with the territory.

I got bashed hard a few weeks ago because I got an email from the producer of the Charlie Chat who told me that our complaints have not fallen on deaf ears and that everyone would enjoy the chat. Because of her statements I felt assured that something good was going to happen on the chat and passed on her comments to everyone. About the only good thing about the chat was they announced next months chat would be devoted to HDTV, the rest of it was thumbs down. 

And while some folks are indeed *****ing and moaning too much, its not to say that the companies may not deserve it. Look at Dish Network, no one forced Charlie to go on the air in May and announce HDNet would be coming this SUMMER, he did that of his own free will and he did not deliver, from what I understand there was not even a solid HD plan when that announcement was made, so in those cases I say give em hell (I did) 

My unpaid position here at DBSTalk is both GREAT and Hard at the same time. I do my best to get the scoops first. I spend a lot of time talking with people, emailing people and putting pieces of the puzzle together to bring you many of the scoops I present here, while other times I am just flat out told whats going on and other times I am told whats going on but am told not to make it public yet. You see at times it may seem like neither satellite company has any idea what they are doing, but if people saw what was going on behind the scenes they would have a better understanding of why things are as they are.

As far as Dish Network and HDTV goes they are investing MILLIONS and MILLION of dollars in HDTV technology, when the SuperDish is available they will have unmatch space for all kinds of HD Channels, while DirecTV on the other hand is facing a space crunch and will not be able to add any further HD for the forseable future (until the Spot beam satellite goes up to 119)

Waiting is a hard thing to do, I hate waiting.  

Think of it this way if you go to the local motor vechicals department and have to wait in line for hours and hours you will find that the line is just like DBSTalk.COM members, some will be happy to wait others will be pissed and others will want to jump out of line to go to another DMV office and hope for shorter lines.

I honestly believe those who wait will enjoy what will be coming to them in the future.

BTW I don't believe I am letting the cat out of the bag by saying ESPN-HD will indeed be one of the new HD stations from Dish.


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## boba (May 23, 2003)

Scott the key thing for me is I have ESPNHD now on Directv 90% of the time it is SD so no thrill but I have it now and Charlie could offer it now he has capacity on 110 to offer it. He may have to move it in 3 or 4 months but he feels it will cost him less to not offer it now. He feels existing customers will still trust him and wait so the accountant in him says we may lose a few but it will cost us less. THE FACTOR HE HASN'T CALCULATED CORRECTLY MAYBE THE "GOODWILL" OF EXISTING CUSTOMERS.


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## Unthinkable (Sep 13, 2002)

Nick said:


> Good rant - I wish I had said that. Maybe I will.
> 
> Don't leave. We need more members with levels heads. Just ignore the moaners and groaners.
> .
> .


This entire thread and post reminds me of a level in Midtown Madness 3 where you have to chauffer around an elderly woman to six of her favorite places within a specified period of time. She insults you and berates you the entire time you drive her no matter how slow, how fast, or how careful you drive her to each place. You can run her flawlessly to each stop without hitting a thing and without ever putting her in danger and she still rants and raves about how psychotic you drove. What is worse is she has even nastier things to say about every shop, hairdresser, massage, coffee shop etc... after you take her where she wants to go. Moral of the X-Box game reference... some folks are only happy when they are complaining, ranting, and raving. They know of nothing else in life.


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## jrbdmb (Sep 5, 2002)

enforcer said:


> 3. For those people who are switching just becuase of ESPN-HD, well quite frankly I will refrain from saying what I think from some of you people.


I don't have a current interest in HD programming. But if I did, ESPN-HD would certainly be near the top of my wish list. DirecTV currently has ESPN-HD. Dish Network does not, and from past history (see Fox Sports West 2, YES Network) it could be a long time until Dish gets this channel. So yes, I would *consider* switching. Sorry if that p*sses you off.

If I lived in NYC I would probably switch to DirecTV to get YES Network. Would this bother you as well? If I lived in Hartford or Baltimore I might switch to get locals that D* carries and E* does not. Is this OK with you?

I glad that you are happy with your Dish Network experience. But allow those that are less than satisified to voice their opinions as well ...


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## HTguy (May 7, 2002)

The only reason ESPN-HD isn't on DISH at this moment is because they are asking too much money for an "HD" channel that is HD less than 5% of the time.

But it will most probably go up with the new HD PAK in Oct anyway and certainly will be on DISH when the studio goes to HD early next year.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

Enforcer, I was a DirecTV customer for a long time but switched to Dish since at the time they acted like a company that cared about their customers. Since then I've changed my mind and now look upon Dish as just another big corporation that make it look like all they care about is getting the most $'s from their clients. 

Would I like ESPN-HD, yep. Do I want HDNet and HDMovies, yep. Can I get these on Dish, nope! Over the past few months Charlie and company keep dangling the carrot out in front of his customers saying look at what we're going to be offering. OK, I know Dish hasn't said that they're going to offer ESPN-HD, but Dish has said, many time, that they will be the HD leader, but for the past couple of months they haven't been and who knows for sure when they will be again. On one Chat show they say HD will be on 105, next show, nope it's on 121. Here, look at this 921 and all the awards it can get, but does anyone have one, nope, not even Charlie has a 921. 

Let's stray from HD for the moment and go into some of the other things that are causing me to consider switching back. The Dish 6000 that I purchased that was to get Open TV. Oh wait, we under designed it and even though you said we'd upgrade it we changed our mind. 

How about Dish making changes on their end that cause their Dish 6000 receivers to have a very annoyming stutter on channels from the 119 slot, which took Dish over 5 days to correct. 

How about the quality of the software in the PVR systems and the feature set offered. Hey, it wasn't TVIO but then again folks weren't being charged a per month fee. But now Charlie is comparing his PVR's to TIVO and saying he should be able to charge a monthly fee also. By doing so he's open up Dish to all these rants and they deserve it. I know folks with TIVO's and Replay boxes and they have nowhere the number of problems that Dish has and a ton more features then Dish provides. 

So for me, it's not just the HD issue, it's looking at all the things that have been happening at Dish over the past few months and making me wonder if I want to continue to give them my hard earned cash, which is over $1,200 per year. For that kind of money I expect a better product then what Dish is currently offering. So as they say, "Vote with your pocket book" and if on the 9/8 HD center Charlie Chat if they don't announce pricing and FIRM dates (not something like coming in the fall) I'll be firing up the old browser and starting to find a good deal on DirecTV.


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

Enforcer,

Once again, go to the USER CP button at the top of the page and click on the Buddy/Ignore list to add any trolls to your avoid list to save you from the chaff to get at the wheat you want.

I too have felt like I'm the only voice out here besides Scott calling for patience. I've had an HDTV monitor since December 2002 and the only HD programing it has seen has come from my XBox (Enter the Matrix and Dragon's Lair 3D). I AM anxious to get a 921, but I'm not going to jump to D* over it. 

I too have felt like there has been a hurry up and wait approach wit HD programming at E*, but the number of subscribers demanding it hasn't hit critical mass yet. I personally feel that that point will come in months rather than years, so I too have been advising patience.

As E* has been more excited about LIL and international programming for the last two years in an effort to build interest, it will be nice to throw something in our direction on the early adopter front. Keep the faith. With any luck they will have this thing humming by Christmas. And if you simply CAN'T wait, then jump to D*. 

My only worry is that we here are losing our pull with the brass at E* and D*. The more venom we spew, the less likely they will want to take our opinions seriously, and the less likely they will make an effort to appease us.


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## Guest (Aug 22, 2003)

Dish has been a real nitemare when they have written thier own code and done anything "in-house". A LA dISHPLAYER--Now here comes SUPERDISH!!! what if this little piece of Echostar technology is as weak as thier other in hse productions??Can you imagine the "savior" of all things Dish-standard, hidef, and locals--turns out to be a big Dishplayer sitting on your roof??!!?? OY FRIGGIN VAY!!!


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## DTV (Aug 13, 2003)

Sorry to be the only dissenting voice Enforcer but in all honesty get over it. 

Who are you to tell someone else that ESPN-HD is not worth switching providers for? You may be so loyal to Dish that you won't switch but don't push your beliefs on those who may not feel the same. If you don't like the complaining then don't read the threads.

As far as customer service goes that is also entirely based on individual experience. Again you are assuming that because you think Dish has better customer service then that is how it is. You totally disregard the fact that others may have different experiences. As far as Dish customer service goes in my experience it sucks. I'm amazed that someone can defend the customer service of a company that will not refund the unused portion of your account balance when you cancel service. But that is just my experience. I am not naive enough to think/assume that everyone has had the same experience and I certainly wouldn't criticize someone for not feeling the same way.


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## JohnL (Apr 1, 2002)

mattyro2 said:


> Dish has been a real nitemare when they have written thier own code and done anything "in-house". A LA dISHPLAYER--Now here comes SUPERDISH!!! what if this little piece of Echostar technology is as weak as thier other in hse productions??Can you imagine the "savior" of all things Dish-standard, hidef, and locals--turns out to be a big Dishplayer sitting on your roof??!!?? OY FRIGGIN VAY!!!


Many of the problems of the Dishplayer software are Microsoft's fault as Microsoft wrote the software for the PTV client as well as the bugs of Web TV that caused the Dishplayer problems when it crashed into the code that Dish wrote strickly for the Satellite tuner.

John


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## DTV (Aug 13, 2003)

JohnL said:


> Many of the problems of the Dishplayer software are Microsoft's fault as Microsoft wrote the software for the PTV client as well as the bugs of Web TV that caused the Dishplayer problems when it crashed into the code that Dish wrote strickly for the Satellite tuner.
> 
> John


I would be inclined to agree with you if it wasn't for the UltimateTV boxes. They also use Microsoft code and I do not believe they have near the number of problems as the DishPlayer. I agree there were probably problems with the Microsoft code but I also believe Dish was to blame as well.


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## Karl Foster (Mar 23, 2002)

Thanks DTV. You said what I wanted to. I have three UTV boxes, and believe it or not, Microsoft CAN write PVR software that works. 

If I had invested thousands of dollars into a HDTV setup, and the only channel I could get was Discovery HD for $8 per month, a demo channel, and a PPV station, and the competition offered an array of channels for $11 per month, I'd have to seriously consider switching. Charlie says he is the leader in HD. I say put up or shut up. You can be disgusted by that if you want, but it is all about best value for the dollar spent, and Dish doesn't offer it for HD at this point.


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## lastmanstanding (Mar 22, 2003)

When Superdish and the other new gear rolls out sometime this century, Dish will have the upperhand again for HD programming. If the switchers are consistent, I guess they will switch back.

In a few years, everything will be HD anyway. I don't see the point in beating ourselves bloody trying to bring it on sooner. 

Maybe I am getting old. 

But Enforcer, don't leave the board. Some people complain no matter what is going on. I am waiting for someone to post a complaint because they have nothing to complain about. 

LMS


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## JohnL (Apr 1, 2002)

DTV said:


> I would be inclined to agree with you if it wasn't for the UltimateTV boxes. They also use Microsoft code and I do not believe they have near the number of problems as the DishPlayer. I agree there were probably problems with the Microsoft code but I also believe Dish was to blame as well.


Dtv,

Remember that Ultimate TV was the second incarnation of both hardware and software from the orignal Dishplayer. Dishplayer and Ultimate TV shared much of the same design so Microsoft learned alot from the first generation, just like Windows 3.0 was an absymal failure with plain awfull UI and very slow. Windows 3.1 was the second generation and addressed many of the faults of Windows 3.0 in fact Microsoft pull 3.0 and replaced it with 3.1 becuase of 3.0 problems.

If Ultimate TV is or was so good why oh why did Microsoft pull all support and hardware. One it was a drain on company resources and it didn't sell or marketed at all.

John


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