# FCC Public Notice regarding DTV Delay



## Tom Robertson

Edit: This was a standard, scheduled open meeting regarding the DTV transition. The DTV Delay Act was not part of the agenda, though the opening statements did discuss the Public Notice regarding the Delay Act's effects upon the Report and Order. The Public Notice highlights start in post 3 below.

The FCC has announced it will have an Open House regarding the DTV [strike]Delay Act[/strike], Thursday, February 5, 2009.


> The Federal Communications Commission will hold an Open Meeting on Thursday, February 5, 2009, which is scheduled to commence at 2:00 p.m. in Room TW-C305, at 445 12th Street, S.W., Washington, D.C.
> 
> The meeting will include presentations and discussion by senior agency officials as well as industry, consumer groups and others involved in the Digital Television Transition.
> The purpose of the meeting is to educate and inform the Commission and the public about the status and issues involved with the upcoming Digital Television Transition.


Full announcement

This thread will remain closed and serve as an announcement until that meeting starts. Please continue discussing the DTV transition in the other two threads in this forum.

Thanks to Engadgethd.com for catching this.

Cheers,
Tom


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## Tom Robertson

A call to CSPAN indicates this is tentatively scheduled to be covered on CSPAN3 tomorrow with online coverage as well.

Everything is depending upon logistics, I was warned.


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## Tom Robertson

The FCC has published a Public Notice regarding the DTV Delay. Some highlights from a quick reading:

Stations must file by February 9 if they plan on keeping their February 17 transition date.
Stations might be required to defend their plan if all stations in a market are transitioning and that market has a large group of unprepared households.
Stations may not transition between February 18 and March 13.
The new date for 30 advance filing is March 14.
Stations that have an interim digital channel assignment must stay on that assignment until June 12 (tho there might be a process, didn't read that closely.)

The whole notice is at: http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-09-6A1.pdf

Cheers,
Tom


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## ziggy29

Another item of note is that even if stations shut off analog before 6/12, these stations can't operate their post-transition facilities until 6/12 unless they have an approved STA authorizing use of their post-transition configuration at an earlier time. So if some stations want to crank up their digital power post-transition, even if they transition on 2/17 they wouldn't be able to crank up their digital signal until 6/12 unless an approved STA allowed it sooner.


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## Tom Robertson

Stations that have not transitioned yet but were scheduled transition before February 17, must also file before end of day February 9.

Stations are again encouraged to have some form of nightlight slate or emergency ability continuing.

And there are more requirements for crawls and PSAs to clarify a stations exact plans relating to February 17 or June 12.

Cheers,
Tom


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## robmadden1

> In
> addition to the viewer notifications required by the Third DTV Periodic Report and Order,
> stations terminating on February 17 are required, as a condition of the waiver and if technically
> feasible, to broadcast a crawl on their analog channel regarding the station's termination of
> analog service, for the seven day period from February 10 (11:59 p.m. EST) through the
> termination of the station's analog signal on February 17 (11:59 p.m. EST). For the first five
> days, i.e., February 10 (11:59 p.m. EST) through February 14 (11:59 p.m. EST), the crawl must
> be aired for 5 minutes of every hour of the station's analog broadcast day, including during
> primetime.15 For the final two days, i.e., February 16 (11:59 p.m. EST) through February 17
> (11:59 p.m. EST), the crawl must be aired for 10 minutes of every hour of the station's analog
> broadcast day, including during primetime. We recognize that some stations may lack the
> technical capability to air crawls and will require such stations to instead air information about
> the station's termination of analog service on February 17 in an alternative format for a
> comparable duration.


This will get annoying for viewers of the analog signals for the stations that are trasitioning on the 17th.


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## Tom Robertson

robmadden1 said:


> This will get annoying for viewers of the analog signals for the stations that are trasitioning on the 17th.


If they are lucky, they will only see it on the analog feed and not the digital.


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## robmadden1

> We remind stations that if they terminate their analog service prior to the June 12
> transition date, they may operate only a digital facility that is approved for pre-transition
> service.20 Stations that want to begin operating prior to the transition date on a post-transition
> digital facility that differs from their pre-transition facility must first file a request for digital
> Special Temporary Authority (STA) to seek Commission approval for an early transition.21
> Pursuant to the Third DTV Periodic Report and Order, a station may request permission to
> operate its post-transition facility before the transition deadline, provided it demonstrates that it
> will (1) not cause impermissible interference to any authorized analog or pre-transition digital
> stations; (2) maintain at least its current digital service; and (3) commence full, authorized posttransition
> operations on the transition deadline.22 Stations requesting such approval must also
> indicate whether such early operation would result in loss of their own analog or digital service.23
> Therefore, in anticipation of a transition date change, a station with a post-transition construction
> permit containing a condition prohibiting use of the post-transition facility until February 18,
> 2009 will now be prohibited from using its post-transition facility until June 13, 2009, unless
> approved by the Commission, as permitted by the Third DTV Periodic Report and Order.


What happens to the stations that are leasing thier pre tration digital equipment and they have other post digital equipment to be used on thier old analog channel? How are they going to do with the leases if they are up on the 18th?


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## Tom Robertson

I presume extend the lease.


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## robmadden1

> As of March 14, 2009, which date is 90 days before the new statutory transition deadline
> of June 12, 2009, the streamlined notification procedures in the Third DTV Periodic Report and
> Order apply for stations planning to terminate analog service on a date 90 days before the
> transition date.30 Accordingly, for analog terminations on or after March 14, stations must notify
> the Commission at least 30 days prior to the termination date and provide viewer notifications
> for at least 30 days prior to their termination of analog service.31 Except in the case of
> equipment failure, the Commission will not permit stations to terminate analog service with less
> than 30 days notice to the Commission and the stations' viewers. Of course, the Commission
> reserves the right to amend these rules and procedures, if necessary, to carry out the purposes of
> the DTV Delay Act.32


So if thier analog equipment dies they have to fix it?


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## Tom Robertson

Equipment failure was the exception, which "should" allow them to transition earlier with less warning.


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## robmadden1

> First, we will permit stations that have previously terminated analog service to request
> permission to resume analog broadcasting. Stations that have already terminated their analog
> service and desire to resume analog broadcasting must file a request for STA so that the
> Commission can determine if impermissible interference would be caused by the station's
> resumption of analog service and must provide the new date that they intend to terminate analog
> broadcasting if it is other than June 12, 2009.35 Stations that have already terminated their
> analog service and do not wish to resume analog broadcasting are not required to notify the
> Commission.


Why in the hell would a station want to turn thier analog signal back on if its already off?


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## SParker

Tom Robertson said:


> [*]Stations that have an interim digital channel assignment must stay on that assignment until June 12 (tho there might be a process, didn't read that closely.)
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


So basically my CBS got a crappy interim VHF 2 assignment and is supposed to get my NBC's old analog VHF 8 assignment. So even if my NBC dumps analog early my CBS will be barred from using Digital 8 until June 12th? Well that sucks! :nono2:


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## James Long

Tom Robertson said:


> I presume extend the lease.


Or file a STA, as many have already done, explaining the problem. The wheels are in motion. "We are financially unable to continue analog beyond February 17th" is a common theme in the ad hoc STAs filed so far. Expect to see that alot.

It looks like the FCC will investigate markets that will be going all digital to make sure public interest needs are met. Expect to see "xx% of the population of our coverage area are covered by LP stations that can provide emergency information" explainations. Expect to see "xx% of our market is ready" for those markets closer to 99% than 85% (the statistics varied in the Nielson report per market). Expect to see station lawyers in DC earning their fees.


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## ziggy29

SParker said:


> So basically my CBS got a crappy interim VHF 2 assignment and is supposed to get my NBC's old analog VHF 8 assignment. So even if my NBC dumps analog early my CBS will be barred from using Digital 8 until June 12th? Well that sucks! :nono2:


Hopefully in that case, your CBS could get an approved STA to move to digital 8 once NBC's analog 8 is off-the-air. But absent that, yeah, it sounds like they'd be stuck on 2 until 6/12.


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## RAD

Tom Robertson said:


> Stations that have an interim digital channel assignment must stay on that assignment until June 12 (tho there might be a process, didn't read that closely.)


I wonder if that also applies to stations that are on an interim digitial channel and would be moving back to their analog channel? If yes that could mess up a lot of scheduling if hardware needs to be replaced. I know our local FOX station needed to do antenna work when they moved back, I wonder if their contracts with those firms have penalty clauses in them if the work gets deferred. I can see this costing stations a ton of money.


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## Tom Robertson

RAD said:


> I wonder if that also applies to stations that are on an interim digitial channel and would be moving back to their analog channel? If yes that could mess up a lot of scheduling if hardware needs to be replaced. I know our local FOX station needed to do antenna work when they moved back, I wonder if their contracts with those firms have penalty clauses in them if the work gets deferred. I can see this costing stations a ton of money.


Good question. I didn't read that closely into the legalese.


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## ziggy29

RAD said:


> I wonder if that also applies to stations that are on an interim digitial channel and would be moving back to their analog channel? If yes that could mess up a lot of scheduling if hardware needs to be replaced. I know our local FOX station needed to do antenna work when they moved back, I wonder if their contracts with those firms have penalty clauses in them if the work gets deferred. I can see this costing stations a ton of money.


I could be wrong, but in the case of KTBC, I *suspect* it means they could file to shut off analog channel 7 on 2/17, but they'd still have to remain on digital 56 until 6/12 unless they filed an STA which allowed them to move back to digital 7 sooner.

As it would be a LOT cheaper in terms of electricity to broadcast from 7 instead of 56, you'd think this is something they'd want to get done sooner rather than later.


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## robmadden1

The frustrating part of this whole fiasco is no one has mentioned what happens with stations who are currently receiving interference on their temporary digital channel. They make all the mentions about stations not being able to switch if they'll cause interference, but what about stations that were counting on getting their previous coverage area back that they are missing part of on their temporary digital channel and who because of technical reasons can't turn analog back on? Do they just continue for another 4 months missing part of their viewership and any financial loss that happens because of that?


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## Herdfan

Tom Robertson said:


> Stations that have an interim digital channel assignment must stay on that assignment until June 12 (tho there might be a process, didn't read that closely.)


Interesting as ours has already moved from their temp to their permanent. DISH lost HD locals in the move, but everything else was smooth.


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## robmadden1

> 1) To shut down on 2/17, tell us by Monday
> 2) Otherwise wait until March 14 (in 90 day window) but give 30 days notice
> 3) If too many of you shut down, we'll order you to stay on the air.


So if all stations in one market want to go digital they can't?


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## Tom Robertson

Herdfan said:


> Interesting as ours has already moved from their temp to their permanent. DISH lost HD locals in the move, but everything else was smooth.


That's part of the whole things that already happened before today clause. Thankfully no one is required to turn back time...


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## robmadden1

Stations that want to move the digital channel to the post transition channel must file an STA. Could someone who understands the process explain how hard this is for a station and if approval is needed how long that takes. If a station was going to its previous analog channel, would this make the process easier?


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## ziggy29

robmadden1 said:


> So if all stations in one market want to go digital they can't?


Presumably that could be vetoed as being "not in the best interest" of folks who aren't ready for the transition. What isn't said is what exactly the criteria are, and I think that's by design.

Still, if most/all the stations in a market indicated they intend to transition on 2/17 as planned, how does the FCC determine who gets to? First come first served on the filings? (If so, would there be a mad rush to be the first to get your filing of intent to the FCC?) Random drawing? Rock/paper/scissors??


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## robmadden1

One also has to wonder if any station group is preparing a lawsuit if the FCC doesn't approve a shutdown on the 17th?


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## bobcamp1

SParker said:


> So basically my CBS got a crappy interim VHF 2 assignment and is supposed to get my NBC's old analog VHF 8 assignment. So even if my NBC dumps analog early my CBS will be barred from using Digital 8 until June 12th? Well that sucks! :nono2:


No, it doesn't. It prevents your CBS from suing your NBC. Your CBS could claim that your NBC was ready but was sitting on the frequency on purpose. Now NBC can simply say it's following the law.

I have the same situation with my PBS and NBC. PBS has already said they are not budging until June 12th, thus forcing NBC to stay where they are.


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## bobcamp1

robmadden1 said:


> Why in the hell would a station want to turn thier analog signal back on if its already off?


My FOX affiliate loves that provision. They've been having problems with their digital transmitter. Should they switch and continue to have problems, they can now switch back.

Or, I suppose, if a station has received numerous complaints on its poor digital coverage. (MPBN)


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## Bradtothebone

And to think, the whole purpose of this delay was to prevent confusion and disenfranchising of the general public. Imagine that!


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## scooper

I THINK the FCC is looking for at least one analog station in each market to stay on the air. With that in mind, the "Nightlight" stations would be ideal candidates.

Unfortunately - it looks like stations that have to move won't be able to (baring special circumstances) until the Jun 12 .


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## hdfan1

As usual the government has turned what could have been a pretty straight forward conversion to digital into complete chaos. So basically stations have 4 days to tell the FCC their plans if they want to convert on the original date. Then the FCC who can't make any decision easily are going to analyze each market within a week to tell who can't and who can't make the conversion that the stations have been planning for years.


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## Jasqid

hdfan1 said:


> As usual the government has turned what could have been a pretty straight forward conversion to digital into complete chaos. So basically stations have 4 days to tell the FCC their plans if they want to convert on the original date. Then the FCC who can't make any decision easily are going to analyze each market within a week to tell who can't and who can't make the conversion that the stations have been planning for years.


Yep.

And the best part... this will all happen again.  And here's why:
The last 6 million americans that havent made the move to digital are the same 6 million procrastinators that will be in the same position they are now come Jun 12th. Hence, the almighty government will again say "we cant disenfranchise these people... blah blah" and it will be pushed to an even later date.


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## robmadden1

*FCC Releases Rules For Impementing DTV Date Switch*
Stations need to let the FCC know by Feb. 9 and have to air at least 120 PSA's before the switch
By John Eggerton -- Broadcasting & Cable, 2/5/2009 12:08:13 PM MT

Related: The DTV Countdown - Complete Coverage of the DTV Transition

Stations that still want to pull the plug on analog by Feb. 17 have to let the FCC know ASAP, though the FCC reserves the right to deny the request depending on the degree to which it would affect viewers.

The FCC has released its rules implementing the extension of the DTV date, and they will require any station that still wants to end analog transmissions by Feb. 17 to let the FCC know by Feb. 9 and to air at least 120 PSA's informing viewers of that fact between now and Feb. 17, according to an FCC spokesperson.

But the FCC did not say all those requests would be granted.

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/ar...ses_Rules_For_Impementing_DTV_Date_Switch.php


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## robmadden1

For the people who complain they can't get the digital channel I wonder if they are in markets where the digital signal is compromised?


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## James Long

Jasqid said:


> Yep.
> 
> And the best part... this will all happen again.  And here's why:
> The last 6 million americans that havent made the move to digital are the same 6 million procrastinators that will be in the same position they are now come Jun 12th. Hence, the almighty government will again say "we cant disenfranchise these people... blah blah" and it will be pushed to an even later date.


As noted previously, the side that pushed for this legislation promised not to ask for a further delay. Calling them liars would be a political comment and we're not going there. (Not saying you are calling them liars, that is just what going down that road leads to.)

I believe the snowball effect will give the chance of a further delay a snowball's chance in hell of being approved. That being said, I would not be surprised if an in core station with special circumstances would receive a STA to remain on in analog. That could be done under FCC authority if the analog station was considered a translator but there may be congressional action to allow such small scale (one station one market) situations.

Enough fan fiction (mine in this case) ... let's get back to what is really happening.


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## robmadden1

> Copps encouraged broadcasters not to continue to use a countdown clock--an FCC requirement--unless they were planning on switching Feb. 17, saying others should not start their clocks until 100 days before the date the planned to transition.
> 
> Commissioner Jonathan Adelstein said Thursday that the FCC wanted to avoid a "Wild West" sencario of stations moving on different dates and encouraged broadcasters to take a careful, considered approach on an individual market basis. He praised the networks for not going early. He said he much appreciated any station who stuck in out until June 12, but understood that would not be possible for some stations, and that the FCC would work to accommodate them.
> 
> Copps conceded the transition will not be seamless.


I love how he said seamless like the goverment wanted is not going to happen.


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## durl

Not that I want this to happen, but what if every station that is ready to go digital were to shut off their DIGITAL signal on the 17th, using cost savings as the reason? "We can't afford to broadcast 2 signals, the government is forcing us to carry analog, so we're carrying analog."

Millions of people would complain about losing their HD signals. The FCC would realize that there are FAR more people prepared for digital than are not and most people WANT digital signals. They allow stations to cut off analog, and at least 96% of Americans are happy!!

OK...so it'll never happen that way.


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## Tom Servo

Note to commisioner Adelstein - you wanted to avoid a wild west scenario but now that's exactly what you're creating_!_

Everyone in the broadcast industry knew the hard transition date was going to be a headache and an inconvenience to to some folks, but this new scheme is really going to make things worse.

If anyone doesn't know about the 17th by now, they aren't actually watching any broadcast TV of any kind and don't NEED to know.

All this is doing is exacerbating some annoying situations, namely: stations on interim low power digital signals, stations on VHF-lo who need/want to move to UHF or VHF-high, the high cost of operating two transmitters for more time, leased temporary equipment and expiring contracts, already scheduled work for upgrades to final DTV equipment... And let's not forget all this spectrum was bidded on and awarded to groups who are waiting on the shutdown so they can begin building out new wireless high speed networks. :nono:


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## ruthiesea

Jasqid said:


> Yep.
> 
> And the best part... this will all happen again.  And here's why:
> The last 6 million americans that havent made the move to digital are the same 6 million procrastinators that will be in the same position they are now come Jun 12th. Hence, the almighty government will again say "we cant disenfranchise these people... blah blah" and it will be pushed to an even later date.


I'm not going to go so far as to predict that you are right, but I am concerned that you might be. That was the beginning of the end for our transition to the metric system. Although I don't think that digital can be put off forever, I'm afraid that it could become a beauracratic nightmare as transition dates are changed. I really hope that we are both wrong.


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## robmadden1

It's also interesting how they would like it to be market by market, but the markets are intermingled with dependencies with neighboring markets so one market might not be able to all switch on the same date until the next market does, which might be dependent on another market, etc. Would have been much more seamless if they stuck with the original date.


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## robmadden1

The requirement for stations that want to shut down on the 17th anyway to re-file by the 9th, when it's the 5th and the bill hasn't even been signed yet, is obviously one of two things:

1) Gross incompetence -- they should be able to cross-reference their files; or,
2) An attempt to harass stations into not shutting down.


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## lwilli201

Good grief. What a mess. Before there was those of use that knew what was going to happen Feb 17 and those that did not. Now no one knows what is going on. :lol:


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## James Long

robmadden1 said:


> The requirement for stations that want to shut down on the 17th anyway to re-file by the 9th, when it's the 5th and the bill hasn't even been signed yet, is obviously one of two things:
> 
> 1) Gross incompetence -- they should be able to cross-reference their files; or,
> 2) An attempt to harass stations into not shutting down.


The FCC is looking for clarity. Stations have been filing their intent in several different ways and sometimes in multiple ways. Those filings were made before the FCC addressed the issue and before the bill passed both houses. Now that procedures are set it is APPROPRIATE that stations once again confirm their intent under those procedures. It would be incompetent to assume that the various filings have the same intent as a filing directly addressing the FCC under the new procedures.

As far as when S.352 will become law ... the current bill status shows it as "cleared for the president". Not yet "presented to the president" or signed into law. President Obama just flew off in Air Force One to a retreat so I don't expect a signature tonight. Waiting for the signature would be a bad move. The FCC needs to sort through those filings (due Monday night) and have time to challenge them under the procedures they have set forth.

If there was any indication of a veto I could see the FCC waiting but as this was legislation that was requested by the administration it is expected to be signed into law.


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## tkrandall

Two things:

1) I don't understand where the FCC thinks it gets the legal authority from the act to reserve the right to deny Feb 17 analog terminations if "too many" stations in a market ask to terminate analog service. The act exlicitly states that no station that was to shut down Feb 17 in compliance with the current law should be prevented from doing so.

2) Also, I see they have given priorty to existing analog transmissions and interim digital transmissions over post-transition digital transmissions. Not only that, stations with temporary digital assignments, like WGTV in Atlanta which has analog on RF 8 and will have permanent digital on RF 8 are "prohibited" from digital transition before June 12, wthout FCC approval. 

Botom line is this FCC action will give many of us continued marginal/insufficient digital signals for an extra 4 months on certain stations. Great.


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## Tom Robertson

robmadden1 said:


> The requirement for stations that want to shut down on the 17th anyway to re-file by the 9th, when it's the 5th and the bill hasn't even been signed yet, is obviously one of two things:
> 
> 1) Gross incompetence -- they should be able to cross-reference their files; or,
> 2) An attempt to harass stations into not shutting down.


How about double checking now that the bill is almost law? (and will be soon.) I thought they did a very good job explaining and accommodating the sudden shift in the rules created by the new bill.

They need to know who still plans to transition so coordinated efforts and information can be done the right way.

Remember there are a lot of moving pieces that are dependent upon each other. Information flow, in a standardized fashion is the best way to minimize the confusion that just got created.

Cheers,
Tom


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## Tom Robertson

tkrandall said:


> Two things:
> 
> 1) I don't understand where the FCC thinks it gets the legal authority from the act to reserve the right to deny Feb 17 analog terminations if "too many" stations in a market ask to terminate analog service. The act exlicitly states that no station that was to shut down Feb 17 in compliance with the current law should be prevented from doing so.
> 
> 2) Also, I see they have given priorty to existing analog transmissions and interim digital transmissions over post-transition digital transmissions. Not only that, stations with temporary digital assignments, like WGTV in Atlanta which has analog on RF 8 and will have permanent digital on RF 8 are "prohibited" from digital transition before June 12, wthout FCC approval.
> 
> Botom line is this FCC action will give many of us continued marginal/insufficient digital signals for an extra 4 months on certain stations. Great.


The basis of the delay and the other actions they have taken are to project and serve the public trust. They were given the authority to create rules that allow for delay and to allow for the new early transition--the old transition hard date.

So they crafted a compromise set of rules. Hopefully the number of stations that will have issues will be very small. Especially since the time is short.

Cheers,
Tom


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## JohnH

Yep, the FCC has acted on something they should know nothing about and they probably have not fathomed what it actually says.


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## robmadden1

Lets see if any stations are forced to stay analog against their will.
Not saying it will happen. But it hasn't yet. And with so many PBS stations voluntarily staying on, I doubt it will. (CF: Wilmington, NC)


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## joblo

tkrandall said:


> I don't understand where the FCC thinks it gets the legal authority from the act to reserve the right to deny Feb 17 analog terminations if "too many" stations in a market ask to terminate analog service. The act exlicitly states that no station that was to shut down Feb 17 in compliance with the current law should be prevented from doing so.


No, it doesn't. There is absolutely no explicit reference to February 17th in the early termination provision. Let's review that:



> SEC. 4. IMPLEMENTATION.
> 
> (a) Permissive Early Termination Under Existing Requirements- Nothing in this Act is intended to prevent a licensee of a television broadcast station from terminating the broadcasting of such station's analog television signal (and continuing to broadcast exclusively in the digital television service) prior to *the date established by law under section 3002(b)* of the Digital Television Transition and Public Safety Act of 2005 for termination of all licenses for full-power television stations in the analog television service *(as amended by section 2 of this Act)* so long as such prior termination is conducted in accordance with the Federal Communications Commission's requirements in effect on the date of enactment of this Act, including the flexible procedures established in the Matter of Third Periodic Review of the Commission's Rules and Policies Affecting the Conversion to Digital Television (FCC 07-228, MB Docket No. 07-91, released December 31, 2007).


Note that even the indirect reference here is to June 12, the *new* date, not the old date.

As I said in a previous post, there are two ways to interpret the above provision, and they chose the second one, i.e. that they must establish a new 90-day period for their flexible termination procedures beginning on March 14.

They then found authority in paragraph (c) of the same section to create a limited waiver to their procedures for stations wishing to terminate on February 17:



> (c) Expedited Rulemaking- *Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the Federal Communications Commission* and the National Telecommunications and Information Administration *shall*, not later than 30 days after the date of enactment of this Act, each adopt or revise its rules, regulations, or orders or *take* such other *actions* as may be necessary or appropriate *to implement the provisions, and carry out the purposes*, of this Act and the amendments made by this Act.


This is your standard catchall provision essentially giving latitude to ignore the letter of a law in the name of carrying out the spirit of said law.

So really, the FCC is on pretty solid ground in preventing analog termination of any given station on the 17th if they don't think it's in the public interest to allow it.

(In case you doubt my explanation, you can confirm the above by reading the footnotes of the FCC's Notice.)


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## Tom Robertson

Thanks for the details, joblo. Good analysis.

Cheers,
Tom


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## robmadden1

What if the fcc thinks any analog shut off on the 17th is not in public interest? Not saying it will happen/ But what do you think will happen if no station in the country is allowed to turn off analog on the 17th because the fcc thinks its not in public interest?


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## Tom Robertson

robmadden1 said:


> What if they think any analog shut off on the 17th is not public interest? Not saying it will happen/ But what do you think will happen if no station in the country is allowed to turn off analog on the 17th because the fcc thinks its not in public interest?


Do you really think that is likely? Seems rather extreme and likely to engender a log of angry people...

Why don't we try to stick with what has actually happened and likely to happen. Should something this crazy come to pass, then we can talk about it. (Without any political commentary, tho.)

Cheers,
Tom


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## robmadden1

You never know whats in the heads of the people of the fcc, it still could happen. But I will get back on topic.


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## robmadden1

As of February 1, Nielsen is calling 5.8 million homes still completely unready for the DTV transition, 5.1 percent of the population. That's up 700,000 from last month, but still apparently enough to put the kibosh on a February shutoff across the country. Albuquerque-Santa Fe still leads/trails all markets, we'll see if they get any special attention from the FCC and others over the next few months.

http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire...-update-51-of-us-households-still-unprepared/


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## Tom Robertson

Right now, Albuquerque only has one station listed as switching early (on the 10th, by the way) so it is possible there won't be an issue there at all.

Cheers,
Tom


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## joblo

robmadden1 said:


> What if the fcc thinks any analog shut off on the 17th is not in public interest? Not saying it will happen/ But what do you think will happen if no station in the country is allowed to turn off analog on the 17th because the fcc thinks its not in public interest?


Please. That's not going to happen.

But let's take real world case. It was reported in an earlier thread that the Salt Lake City stations got together and decided that they all want to go together on the 17th. That could be a problem because Nielsen data indicate that the SLC DMA is even less ready than the national average that prompted this whole exercise in the first place. So unless the Utah SBE can show that a substantial portion of those unready households don't need to be ready because they will continue to be served by analog translators - which in Utah is a possibility - the FCC may tell them they have to wait until March 14 or later.

Or to put it another way, if any given station can show that it has particular circumstances or financial hardships requiring it to turn off analog on the 17th as planned, that will probably fly. But if the station's position is essentially "hey, everybody else is doing it", like we used to tell our parents when we were kids, that probably won't fly.

Markets at a high level of readiness may be allowed to turn off analog en masse on the 17th, but less ready markets may be told they have to wait until March 14th or later.

Pure speculation at this point, of course.


----------



## robmadden1

*CEA worries DTV delay could cause a converter shortage*

In one of what's sure to be many opinions on the now-inevitable DTV deadline shifting from later this month to June, CEA President and CEO Gary Shapiro pledged support for a successful transition, including devoting part of an upcoming event to DTV education, but worries how the change may affect retailers and manufacturers. Since they had planned their reserves and resupplies around a transition this month, he apparently sees a scenario where we could have plenty of DTV converter coupons, and no boxes to buy. Honestly, we think he may be overestimating our initiative, since most (or at least the 39%+ that won't still switch this month anyway) unprepared will hit the snooze button until it becomes entirely mandatory, and the total number of homes that require a digital TV box isn't going to suddenly go up, so there should be plenty to go around, right?

http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20090204006303/en


----------



## robmadden1

*XmtrMan* over at avsforum who works for *WKRC 12 in Cincinnati* had this to say:



> *We'll All Know By Monday*
> 
> Here's the FCC notice about "What's Next?":
> 
> http://www.oab.org/cffm/custom/PDFs/FCC-09-6A1.pdf
> 
> So we'll all know by Monday midnight...


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15748533#post15748533


----------



## tzphotos.com

SParker said:


> So basically my CBS got a crappy interim VHF 2 assignment and is supposed to get my NBC's old analog VHF 8 assignment. So even if my NBC dumps analog early my CBS will be barred from using Digital 8 until June 12th? Well that sucks! :nono2:


Same problem for a lot of people in Chicago. CBS is digital 3 now and is supposed to go to digital 12, which would help many viewers out.


----------



## robmadden1

*Digital D-Day: Monday Night*

Local TV stations have until the end of Monday to decide whether to pull the plug on analog signals this month, or delay until June 12. FCC regulations released today say stations must notify the FCC by 11:59 p.m. Monday, Feb. 9, if they're sticking with the original Feb. 17 deadline.

*So far, only WLWT-TV (Ch 5) has made its decision. It will keep analog on until June 12.
*
If stations opt to cut off analog Feb. 17 -- as many stations here want to do -- they must run crawls notifying viewers starting Feb. 10 through the end of Feb. 17. For the first five days, the crawl air 5 minutes every hour of the station's analog broadcast day, including during prime-time. For the final two days, the crawl must air 10 minutes every hour, including during prime time.

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbc...imeStampAscending&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com


----------



## robmadden1

> *Digital TV Delay? Maybe Not Here!*
> 
> Spread the word: We could still lose our analog TV channels Feb. 17, despite the four-month delay approved by Congress yesterday. Local TV station managers -- and their corporate owners -- are examing the legislation and awaiting federal guidelies which could allow stations to stick with the plan to cease analog broadcasts in two weeks. Final decisions will be made by stations here today through Monday.


[Mode Note: The rest of the copyrighted article has been removed to protect the rights of the copyright holder.]

Whatever happens will be confusing. I agree with the station managers on one thing: The biggest issue is not converter box coupons, but the DTV frustrations I'm hearing from over-the-air viewers. And those issues won't be solved by either deadline. There's going to be confusion and upset people who lose local TV reception.

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbc...8f4c-3ffbefd69c7e&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com


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## robmadden1

We need this pic on all analog stations lol.


----------



## samhevener

robmadden1 said:


> We need this pic on all analog stations lol.


If you watched the house debate on CSPAN, you would learn that one of the reasons for congress voting to extend the shutdown date was that it is impossible to get a "live person" by calling that number.


----------



## SamC

Jasqid said:


> The last 6 million americans that havent made the move to digital are the same 6 million procrastinators that will be in the same position they are now come Jun 12th.


That is exactly correct.

Four years ago the 10% of people who get ONLY OTA TV were told that they needed the fill out a two line form or call an 800 number to get a coupon to allow them to spen ten whole dollars on a box that a child could instal in 90 seconds to keep their free TV that was (and still is) available at any retailer, including Wal-Mart.

Local stations, networks, community groups, and even schools explained this. Its not complicated. It has been running at the bottom of the TV screen for months. The local news has included a five minute card of "you are not ready" for weeks.

Some people are just dumb. They just are. They are just people who are at the margins of society who just cannot grasp simple things. If they descerned anything from all this its that "the TV is going to quit working in February".

And now it will not. Now they may, or may not, get the message that "the TV is going to quit working in June". Except that, with all due respect, we are going to be put through this again, whatever "promises" were made to "never ask again" we will be right back through another midnight "maybe so, maybe not" drama right up until the day in June. Either at the Congressional level, or more likely, in some complex rulemaking whatever at the FCC, or, even more likely, in the Byzantine world of the federal judiciary where one signature from one judge anywhere can over-rule everyone.

These people will not get it until they turn on the TV and it DOES NOT WORK. Then they will ask whoever it is in their lives that takes care of them to fix it.


----------



## BillJ

Conceding for the moment that stations, who were ready for the transition, are getting a raw deal. The justification for the delay was the failure of the gov't coupon program to get consumers ready for the transition either through a poor coupon distribution program or because they ran out of money to fund coupons. What has been done to recify that? Are coupons available now? Are converters available? No matter what they do, of course, some consumers will never get around to buying a converter until their TV goes blank. But is there now in place a way for those who want coupons and converters to get them?


----------



## jpl

BillJ said:


> Conceding for the moment that stations, who were ready for the transition, are getting a raw deal. The justification for the delay was the failure of the gov't coupon program to get consumers ready for the transition either through a poor coupon distribution program or because they ran out of money to fund coupons. What has been done to recify that? Are coupons available now? Are converters available? No matter what they do, of course, some consumers will never get around to buying a converter until their TV goes blank. But is there now in place a way for those who want coupons and converters to get them?


First off the coupon program was never designed to be all things to all people. It just wasn't. It wasn't designed to give every American free coupons. To say that it failed is to presume that it operated in a way that it wasn't designed. The notion of guaranteeing every American 2 coupons was debated, and rejected, by Congress. You can make the argument that it was short-sighted, but it was done by design.

Also, as has been stated in these various threads, this bill add NO money to the coupon program. There's just a provision in it that says, in essence, 'if money gets appropriated to the coupon program, then we're authorizing its use.' That's just about the most nonsensical thing I think I've seen in a long time. If a new bill comes out authorizing additional funds, that statement in THIS bill does nothing. It's the NEW bill that would authorize the funds for the coupon program, not this one.

This bill, however, did extend the deadline for getting coupons, and allows for people to reapply for coupons if their's expired. But again, there's no more money allocated to this - none. So those people get to get put on the waiting list just like everyone else. Part of that galls me, to be honest. If I got a coupon and let it expire, that's my fault. Now I can reapply for that expired coupon and be put on the list AHEAD of others who are just applying for their first coupon.

As for coupons being available... they started shipping out over a year ago. It's really hard to make the claim that people who needed them couldn't get them. I don't know anyone who requested a coupon who couldn't get one. As for box availability, please. They're EVERYWHERE. I stopped in my local drugstore the other night, and they had stacks of them - they even had different models available. Are they part of the coupon program? Probably not, but the boxes are available to those who really need them. Every store around here, including our supermarket, carries the boxes.


----------



## tnsprin

robmadden1 said:


> This will get annoying for viewers of the analog signals for the stations that are trasitioning on the 17th.


Annoying them is a good thing. Then they might get the converter box they need.


----------



## dorfd1

all tv's should have been required to have digital tuners in them when digital tv first started!

converter boxes also should have been avaible when digital tv first started.


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## Tom Robertson

dorfd1 said:


> all tv's should have been required to have digital tuners in them when digital tv first started!
> 
> converter boxes also should have been avaible when digital tv first started.


The FCC did start requiring tuners years ago depending on TV size. Larger, more expensive TVs that could absorb the then large cost of ATSC tuners started first. Then almost 2 years ago, all devices with tuners were required to include ATSC tuners (tho existing stock of non-digital tuners were allowed to be sold within a state.)

Converter boxes were always dependent upon the manufacturers. Until there was a need, no one wanted them so no one made them. (I actually had one that was both a tuner and a DIRECTV receiver 7 years ago.)

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## RAD

dorfd1 said:


> all tv's should have been required to have digital tuners in them when digital tv first started!
> 
> converter boxes also should have been avaible when digital tv first started.


Nice idea but back then most people wouldn't have been able to afford sets. IIRC ATSC tuners back 10 years ago would be a couple hundred dollars if not more.


----------



## aa9vi

samhevener said:


> If you watched the house debate on CSPAN, you would learn that one of the reasons for congress voting to extend the shutdown date was that it is impossible to get a "live person" by calling that number.


[Mod Edit: Political commentary is not permitted at DBStalk.] We have this real neat invention called the INTERNET and it has a WEBSITE that has LINKS explaining what is going to happen and WHAT YOU NEED TO DO. Who calls the FCC anyhow? Only someone who has not had enough fun waiting on hold for DirecTV, Comcast, AT&T, Allstate, your Mortgage company.... It's not like the website was designed by a 12 yr old with no information. It's very detailed.... and get this, YOU CAN APPLY FOR THAT $40 COUPON THERE TOO! Wow... what's next? A phone without a cord? Wow, that technologicalism stuff is really nice. back in my day we had to walk through 10 feet of snow to use the only pay phone in town at Bob's Corner store. Phone calls were 10 cents too then...


----------



## Tom Robertson

One of the comments also made in the debates (tho I can't remember which set of debates anymore) was that some of the people who aren't ready also are not likely to actually _use_ the internet either. So the Internet was great to get us here, it is not going to be much help getting the next group.

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## scooper

Make your feelings known at the White House - 
See the full text of the act and offer your opinion at
http://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing_room/dtv_delay_act/


----------



## robmadden1

Am I correct on this:

If a bill is not signed by a President within 10 days while Congress is in session...it becomes law.

If a bill is not signed by a President within 10 days while Congress is not in session...it is automatically a veto.


So it could go either way if Obama does not sign the bil sooun enough.


----------



## robmadden1

*White House Seeks Comment on Delay Bill*
Obama not likely to sign bill into law before Monday, asks for five day public comment period
By John Eggerton -- Broadcasting & Cable, 2/6/2009 8:33:28 AM MT

It looks like the White House won't be signing the bill into law until at least Monday, the same day broadcasters must let the FCC know if they want to pull the plug on analog Feb. 17, which is now early but is the date the government has been telling them was the drop-dead date for years.
*
President Barack Obama, as part of his pledge of openness and transparency, said he would give the public five days to comment on bills before he signed them*

The text of the DTV delay bill has been posted on the White House Web site along with a comment form.

Broadcasters may make the transition on Feb. 17, but bill co-author Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D-WVA), chairman of the Senate Commerce Committee, has asked broadcasters to "put consumers first." The FCC is doing more than asking. Broadcasters must request to make the move by Feb. 9, but the FCC can deny the request if it doesn't think it is in the public interest, say, if all the stations in a market with high analog-only penetration want to go on Feb. 17.

The big problem is that the converter box coupon program slowdown, which prompted the Obama administration's request to move the date, may not be unstuck until March or April, so, the more stations that go Feb. 17, the more the bill's effect is weakened.

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/173712-White_House_Seeks_Comment_on_Delay_Bill.php


----------



## d max82

Looking at the Nielsen Interactive Readiness map there is a surprising trend that is fairly consistant throughtout the US, and that is that the most ready group of americans is *55 & Over*.

Everyone was concerned about the old people that don't know what the internet is, but most of them are ready to go.


----------



## robmadden1

*Worst Case: Converter Boxes Could Run Out By End Of Month*
New boxes should be on the shelves by April
By John Eggerton -- Broadcasting & Cable, 2/5/2009 5:03:28 PM MT

Michael Petricone, senior VP, government affairs, for the Consumer Electronics Association, says some DTV-to-analog converter box manufacturers have started manufacturing new boxes--they had stopped anticipating a Feb. 17 DTV cut-off date--and that new boxes should be on the shelves by April.

In the meantime, he told FCC commissioners at an open meeting Thursday, there could be a shortage of converter boxes depending on demand and the timing of the NTIA's ramping up of distribution.

He said there were between 3 million and 6 million boxes currently in the pipeline. Assuming the worst case, he said, of only 3 million boxes in inventory, if daily coupon redemptions continue at about 115,000 per day, "retailers would run out of boxes by the end of February."

But he said that assuming the high end of 6 million in inventory, retailers would run out of boxes in approximately 52 days, which would mean they would run out just as new boxes begin to arrive on store shelves.

But Petricone said that an unknown that makes any projections difficult is that, given the NTIA coupon wait list of 3.7 million requests, if NTIA were to suddenly issue all the coupons and 65% or so were redeemed, boxes would run out even earlier.

Commissioner Robert McDowell said that the possble shortfall of coupons was one of the two bombshells in the three-hour DTV update that made of acting FCC Chairman Micheal Copps' first meeting. The other was the revelation by a representative of NTIA that it could be April before coupons start being processed expeditiously given that the money to do so is contained in the economic stimulus package that may not be passed until early March.

McDowell wryly observed that the government had accommodated that possible shortfall in converters, saying that while there may not be an boxes on the shelves, that's OK, because there won't be any coupons either.

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/ar...erter_Boxes_Could_Run_Out_By_End_Of_Month.php


----------



## neljtorres

And the things is that on June 12 they still will be people that will not be prepared for the transition! Because there are people out there that don't watch TV!:grin: And another delay will be coming after the june delay! Watch!!:nono2:


----------



## robmadden1

I love the news about the box shortage. Apply/buy/try doesn't inspire action. What we need is a series of planned panics.

"Order your coupons before December 31, 2008, or they will run out." Successful news campaign, 7.2 million coupons ordered in December.

Next, we need a box shortage. "Redeem your coupons ASAP, because they are running out of boxes. Once they're gone, they may not be back in stock until April, after your coupon expires."

Finally, they need to create excitement around a grand TV event that is must-see in digital. Have people get their CECBs out of the closet at least 3 days early, so if they have any problems, they can find help in time for the digital event of the year.


----------



## ziggy29

robmadden1 said:


> I love the news about the box shortage. Apply/buy/try doesn't inspire action. What we need is a series of planned panics.


Don't give 'em ideas. With each planned panic (the last being ignoring the obvious depletion of the coupon funds for months so a last-minute crisis could be declared), they can justify another delay.


----------



## dorfd1

according to directv channel 99 the date for the transition is still 2-17-09


----------



## Cholly

d max82 said:


> Looking at the Nielsen Interactive Readiness map there is a surprising trend that is fairly consistant throughtout the US, and that is that the most ready group of americans is *55 & Over*.
> 
> Everyone was concerned about the old people that don't know what the internet is, but most of them are ready to go.


Here's a link to the Nielsen Readiness map. Check it out. Surprises abound as to what areas were found least/most ready. Also, the under 35 age group seems to be the least ready in most areas!
http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/readiness/


----------



## Retro

Well, I'm not surprised by that map.. It's clear that the people not ready, are the same that are not ready for anything fundamental in life.

The president and congress are supposed to act in the best interest of the country as a whole, not 5% of it, not a certain minority, not a minor special interest group.


----------



## ziggy29

dorfd1 said:


> according to directv channel 99 the date for the transition is still 2-17-09


Until the president signs the delay into law, it still is.


----------



## Stuart Sweet

I'm pleased to have posted my comments.


----------



## James Long

Can you imaging this being President Obama's first Veto?


> Mr President, I respect the intent to help 5% of television viewers by requesting a delay of the transition date but the result is confusion for the public and expense for the broadcast industry.
> 
> Initially under President Clinton the law was that 85% of homes in a market would have to have ONE digital receiver to allow that market to discontinue analog. We are now over the 85% level in even the worst market.
> 
> All preparations are in place for transition. Please do the RIGHT thing and veto S.352


"Cleared for White House" on February 4th - 10 days plus two Sundays would be law on February 16th unless it is vetoed (is the 10 days inclusive of holidays?).

I really don't see President Obama vetoing this ... but those that remain silent deserve the government they get. Best hope is that he directs the FCC differently than the procedures they set up. Perhaps I should have used my 500 characters differently?


----------



## ziggy29

James Long said:


> I really don't see President Obama vetoing this ... but those that remain silent deserve the government they get. Best hope is that he directs the FCC differently than the procedures they set up.


That's my thought, too. The FCC would appear to have almost unlimited ability to deny analog shutdowns based on subjective reasons given the guidelines they published yesterday. That to me -- plus the confusion factor -- are the two biggest negatives about this bill.

The compromise bill provided for the ability of stations to continue to shutdown on 2/17 if they wanted to, but the proposed FCC implementation calls that provision into question.


----------



## islesfan

robmadden1 said:


> *White House Seeks Comment on Delay Bill*
> Obama not likely to sign bill into law before Monday, asks for five day public comment period
> By John Eggerton -- Broadcasting & Cable, 2/6/2009 8:33:28 AM MT
> 
> It looks like the White House won't be signing the bill into law until at least Monday, the same day broadcasters must let the FCC know if they want to pull the plug on analog Feb. 17, which is now early but is the date the government has been telling them was the drop-dead date for years.
> *
> President Barack Obama, as part of his pledge of openness and transparency, said he would give the public five days to comment on bills before he signed them*
> 
> The text of the DTV delay bill has been posted on the White House Web site along with a comment form.
> 
> Broadcasters may make the transition on Feb. 17, but bill co-author Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D-WVA), chairman of the Senate Commerce Committee, has asked broadcasters to "put consumers first." The FCC is doing more than asking. Broadcasters must request to make the move by Feb. 9, but the FCC can deny the request if it doesn't think it is in the public interest, say, if all the stations in a market with high analog-only penetration want to go on Feb. 17.
> 
> The big problem is that the converter box coupon program slowdown, which prompted the Obama administration's request to move the date, may not be unstuck until March or April, so, the more stations that go Feb. 17, the more the bill's effect is weakened.
> 
> http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/173712-White_House_Seeks_Comment_on_Delay_Bill.php


Well, I put in my two cents (on not delaying the whole country on behalf of a group of slackers) but I'm not holding my breath.


----------



## jpl

dorfd1 said:


> according to directv channel 99 the date for the transition is still 2-17-09


That's because it still is officially set for the 17th. The president hasn't signed the bill yet.


----------



## Bobby H

I pretty surprised by the results of that Nielsen DTV readiness map:
http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/readiness/

Here in Oklahoma, Tulsa is ranked near the last in DTV readiness (ranked 54 out of the top 56 markets). Yet only 90 miles to the west, Oklahoma City ranks 10th best in DTV readiness. Even more amazing, less than 1% of OKC TV viewers over the age of 55 are unprepared.

BTW, nearly all of Oklahoma City's broadcast stations intended to turn off their analog signals on Feb. 17. I don't know if they're going to be able to get all of their paperwork re-submitted in time for this Feb 9 re-do nonsense.


----------



## techdimwit

> Looking at the Nielsen Interactive Readiness map there is a surprising trend that is fairly consistant throughtout the US, and that is that the most ready group of americans is 55 & Over.
> 
> Everyone was concerned about the old people that don't know what the internet is, but most of them are ready to go.


This doesn't surprise me in the slightest. This age demographic, of which I am a part, generally do not have problems understanding simple things like deadlines, what to do to be ready for a deadline, and taking care of business before the deadline. It's not rocket science.

This delay infuriates me. If a small percentage of people haven't taken care of this after three bloody years of warnings, tough. Not going to get a whiff of sympathy from me.

I wish our president cared about my opinion but I don't believe it for a minute. He's hell-bent on the deadline and will sign on Monday. Then in June there will be another deadline for all the losers who still aren't ready. Such is life in 21st century America.


----------



## sarhaynes

Many reports are stating that many television stations are planning on going ahead with the transition no matter what congress decides.

I think it may be interesting to start a post listing the stations that have (or have not) decided to transition. If the majority of stations are going to transition anyway, what is the purpose of this bill other than to extend the coupon program past the deadline?? 

For instance, NBC29 (WVIR) in Charlottesville, VA has announced that they will turn off their analog signal at 12:30 PM on February 17th regardless of the bill. They claim it will cost them more than $40K to keep the analog transmitter powered on for the extra time.

I personally don't think the transition should be postponed. I beleive that both government and industry have done their due diligence and just because people have either had their head in the sand, or can't budget $45 over 2 years to buy a box doesn't mean we should waste the tax payer's money on delaying.

Sean


----------



## ziggy29

sarhaynes said:


> Many reports are stating that many television stations are planning on going ahead with the transition no matter what congress decides.


The problem is that the FCC is reserving the right to deny them, even though the "compromise bill" supposedly allowed for stations to proceed with full speed ahead on 2/17.

So in reality, we don't know whether these stations who say they will pull the analog plug on 2/17 will be allowed to do so. The FCC is apparently going to be that gatekeeper, and we don't know how inclined they will be to let the stations go ahead despite the wording in the bill.


----------



## psychobabbler

robmadden1 said:


> *Worst Case: Converter Boxes Could Run Out By End Of Month*
> New boxes should be on the shelves by April
> By John Eggerton -- Broadcasting & Cable, 2/5/2009 5:03:28 PM MT
> 
> Michael Petricone, senior VP, government affairs, for the Consumer Electronics Association, says some DTV-to-analog converter box manufacturers have started manufacturing new boxes--they had stopped anticipating a Feb. 17 DTV cut-off date--and that new boxes should be on the shelves by April.
> 
> In the meantime, he told FCC commissioners at an open meeting Thursday, there could be a shortage of converter boxes depending on demand and the timing of the NTIA's ramping up of distribution.
> 
> He said there were between 3 million and 6 million boxes currently in the pipeline. Assuming the worst case, he said, of only 3 million boxes in inventory, if daily coupon redemptions continue at about 115,000 per day, "retailers would run out of boxes by the end of February."
> 
> But he said that assuming the high end of 6 million in inventory, retailers would run out of boxes in approximately 52 days, which would mean they would run out just as new boxes begin to arrive on store shelves.
> 
> But Petricone said that an unknown that makes any projections difficult is that, given the NTIA coupon wait list of 3.7 million requests, if NTIA were to suddenly issue all the coupons and 65% or so were redeemed, boxes would run out even earlier.
> 
> Commissioner Robert McDowell said that the possble shortfall of coupons was one of the two bombshells in the three-hour DTV update that made of acting FCC Chairman Micheal Copps' first meeting. The other was the revelation by a representative of NTIA that it could be April before coupons start being processed expeditiously given that the money to do so is contained in the economic stimulus package that may not be passed until early March.
> 
> McDowell wryly observed that the government had accommodated that possible shortfall in converters, saying that while there may not be an boxes on the shelves, that's OK, because there won't be any coupons either.
> 
> http://www.broadcastingcable.com/ar...erter_Boxes_Could_Run_Out_By_End_Of_Month.php


Ironically, I just saw about 50-100 boxes (I'm bad at guessing numbers) of converter boxes at a Circuit City about 2 hours ago. FWIW.


----------



## Scott Corbett

robmadden1 said:


> President Barack Obama, as part of his pledge of openness and transparency, said he would give the public five days to comment on bills before he signed them.


Doesn't seem right that you have to give your name and email to comment. I won't be commenting.


----------



## jpl

psychobabbler said:


> Ironically, I just saw about 50-100 boxes (I'm bad at guessing numbers) of converter boxes at a Circuit City about 2 hours ago. FWIW.


I agree with you - I can't go to any store and not trip over these things. Where, exactly, are the shortages? I see them in every supermarket... every drug store... every electronics store... every department store... hell I think I've even seen them at the local 7-11. This notion that there is a shortage of these boxes doesn't match what I've seen at all. Like I posted earlier, I was at my local drugstore the other night, and they had stacks of them, by a couple different manufacturers, right by the check out line. Maybe they're saying that stores/boxes that are participating in the coupon program are running out... but that's not the same as saying that we're out of converter boxes.


----------



## Bobby H

I left my comments at the White House DTV Delay Act page. The 500 character limits forces participants to keep the message short. I merely gave three reasons why he shouldn't sign the bill:

1. The delay places a heavy burden on local TV stations
2. The delay penalizes the vast majority of Americans already set for the transition by keeping DTV broadcasts at low power levels and/or on temporary channel assignments.
3. The delay won't make those who are procrastinating take any action to get prepared.

Interestingly, the under 35 age group seems to be the biggest segment of the population who are unprepared. IMHO, they're just slacking off, putting off what they must do until the last minute. They're only going to get DTVs or converter boxes when their TV sets are only playing "snow."


----------



## bobcamp1

In Wilmington, they ran out of converter boxes (and cable boxes and satellite equipment) the day *after *the switch. People drove an hour to a nearby city (which obviously hadn't switched over yet) to get the boxes. But it was a temporary problem. After the initial surge, inventories returned to normal. It does bring up a point that the government has no control of the availability of these boxes, but I'm don't think I want them to.

Secondly, according to the links provided by others, it appears the number of people who are not ready has been steadily declining the past few months. So the argument that "everyone who isn't ready now won't be ready in June 12th either" is invalid. It may level off now, but I think if one or two stations in each market shut off analog this number will continue to decline.

Finally, two of my stations have said that they will remain on until June 12th. One of these stations said, "we've already been broadcasting on both towers for almost three years. Four more months isn't going to impact us. We planned for a possible delay in our budget." Another station has changed its mind and is not going to refile to switch on Feb. 17, because it is still having technical issues. That leaves just one station left, and it hasn't said anything yet.


----------



## deanconst96

I was at Best Buy in Peoria, IL the other day and they must have had at least a hundred converter boxes for sale. Two days before that I was at Circuit City and they had a huge stack of boxes. No shortage around here.


----------



## Tom Robertson

Bobby H said:


> I left my comments at the White House DTV Delay Act page. The 500 character limits forces participants to keep the message short. I merely gave three reasons why he shouldn't sign the bill:
> 
> 1. The delay places a heavy burden on local TV stations
> 2. The delay penalizes the vast majority of Americans already set for the transition by keeping DTV broadcasts at low power levels and/or on temporary channel assignments.
> 3. The delay won't make those who are procrastinating take any action to get prepared.
> 
> Interestingly, the under 35 age group seems to be the biggest segment of the population who are unprepared. IMHO, they're just slacking off, putting off what they must do until the last minute. They're only going to get DTVs or converter boxes when their TV sets are only playing "snow."


I also left comments similar to yours with an added twist--the group most able are also the group least prepared. 

Then, just as I clicked submit, I remembered one other point I should have made. :lol:


----------



## robmadden1

*More Stations Opt for Early DTV Switch*
Will shut off analog Feb. 17 and hope for the best
By Michael Malone -- Broadcasting & Cable, 2/6/2009 9:15:23 AM MT

The DTV Countdown: Continuing Coverage of the DTV Transition

Each day brings another batch of stations that say they'll make the switch to digital television Feb. 17, as they've been planning for months, as opposed to waiting for the Congress-approved delayed date of June 12. Among those making the early jump are the major Providence stations, those in northern Vermont, Billings (MT), Cedar Rapids/Waterloo/Dubuque, and some in Madison, Wisconsin. The Hawaii stations made the switch Jan. 15 to accommodate a local bird species' breeding season; broadcasters there reported a manageable level of viewer issues.

"Collectively, we felt it was in the best interest of our viewers to transition to digital TV on Feb. 17, the date which has been, and continues to be, in all of our public service announcements," says WPRI/WNAC Providence President/General Manager Jay Howell.

Station executives don't like the idea of paying for both digital and analog transmission facilities over the next four months, and say the countless hours (and dollars) they've spent drilling the Feb. 17 date into viewers' heads should not be for naught. "The stations in this market have done an outstanding job of educating the public to this conversion and that it would occur on Feb. 17," says KWWL Cedar Rapids Station Manager Kim Leer.
Stations that wish to pull the analog plug by the original deadline must apply for FCC approval by Feb. 9. Stations making the early switch must air at least 120 PSA's about it.
Some 5.8 million U.S. homes remain unprepared for digital television, Nielsen reported yesterday, down from 6.5 million almost three weeks ago. Many groups are opting to observe the June extension, which awaits President Obama's signature, believing the extra time will drive down the number of unprepared. Those include CBS, Fox, NBC, Telemundo and ABC, while Gannett and Hearst-Argyle have pledged to keep analog signals on at the vast majority of their stations until June 12.

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/173716-More_Stations_Opt_for_Early_DTV_Switch.php


----------



## scooper

My points was the confusion factor, and the fact that the delay bill doesn't address the real problems - coupons and converter box availability.


----------



## tkrandall

I posted my comment, fwiw


----------



## robmadden1

*Most Local TV Stations Delay Digital Switch*

Never mind! Forget about local TV stations sticking with the Feb. 17 date for dropping analog signals. As of this afternoon, 5 of the 6 stations -- all but WSTR-TV (Ch 64) -- say they'll continue analog signals into spring. The stations had looked into keeping the February date, but decided to honor the delay passed by Congress.

For now, Ch 64 will be the only one to drop analog. Owners Sinclair Broadcast Group had declared earlier this week, before the House vote, that it would definitely cut off analog Feb. 17. But I'm guessing that could change.... with Ch 64's low ratings, do they really want to reach fewer home by cutting off analog viewers?

Viewers should expect to see stations begin cutting off analog on or after May 21 -- the day after May sweeps end. Stations may make the switch during the three-week period between end of sweeps and June 12.

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbc...b5f9-431a80336535&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Stuart Sweet said:


> I'm pleased to have posted my comments.


Likewise here.

I basically said this was foolish legislation, as most stations are poised for the transition on the orignal date, and people have been told about this for over 4 years now. Anyone not prepared at this point is either procrastinating or else doesn't care much, because if they did, they would have acted by this time.


----------



## deanconst96

scooper said:


> My points was the confusion factor, and the fact that the delay bill doesn't address the real problems - coupons and converter box availability.


The whole coupon idea is ridiculous. If somebody needs a coupon to afford a covertor box then how do they afford electricity to plug the tv in? Two many people are always looking for a free handout.


----------



## Inches

Submitted my comments by stating that energy useage by TV stations will be cut down by being able to shut down one transmitter. (Ran out of words) Lets see how far that goes...


----------



## robmadden1

*Cable Operators: DTV Delay A Nuisance
*For Many MSOs, Date Change Will Prolong Transition Process
Todd Spangler -- Multichannel News, 2/6/2009 2:27:12 PM MT

For many cable operators, the government's four-month extension before analog TV broadcasts must go dark is mainly an inconvenience that could simply prolong a process they've been working on for more than a year.

The change moves the deadline for full-power TV stations to go all-digital to June 12, but allows them to convert at any time, and many broadcasters are expected to pull the analog plug on the original Feb. 17 date.

President Barack Obama said he would give the public five days to comment on bills before he signed them, which would put the official signing off until Monday Feb. 9.

"All the things that were set in place for the Feb. 17 transition are kind of squishy now," Insight Communications CEO Michael Willner said.

Several broadcasters in Insight's largest market, Louisville, Ky., had been planning to make the shift on the original date, but Willner said the stations don't want to commit until they know for sure that all their competitors will do so at the same time.

"Certainly not knowing [when the broadcasters will go all-digital] is very complicating," he said. "You'll have some stations that are saying they're converting, some that aren't, some markets that are converting and some that aren't."

http://www.multichannel.com/article/173737-Cable_Operators_DTV_Delay_A_Nuisance.php?rssid=20059


----------



## robmadden1

*DTV Coupon Money Remains In Stimulus Bill*
The $650 million would help get people off the coupon waiting list
By John Eggerton -- Broadcasting & Cable, 2/6/2009 1:11:27 PM MT

For the moment, the $650 million in the economic stimulus package for the constipated DTV-to-analog converter box coupon program is safe.

According to a source with the office of Senator Kent Conrad (D-ND), an amendment drafted as part of the horse-trading Friday over the price of that stimulus package had initially cut all the funding for the program, which subsidizes converter boxes.

The just-passed bill to change the DTV transition date relied on that $650 million to get people off the waiting list, which was one of the principle reasons for the bill, which had no funding of its own.

That Friday amendment, a copy of which was obtained by B&C, did indeed slice all the funding for the coupon program and additional outreach and education that Congress said were necessary for a smooth--or at least smoother--transition.

That $650 million had been struck with the following line "On page 39, strike line 3 and all that follows through
6 page 40, line 2," inserted among a series of others that either cut back or cut out funding in numerous places in the bill. That line lined up exactly with the DTV's position on page 39 of the bill.

But the source said that by press time, the funding was back in the amendment, which had not yet been introduced. "The situation is very fluid," he said.

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/173732-DTV_Coupon_Money_Remains_In_Stimulus_Bill.php


----------



## robmadden1

*Meredith Won't Pull Plug On Analog*
Rockefeller urges stations to stick with analog until June 12.
By John Eggerton -- Broadcasting & Cable, 2/6/2009 2:34:13 PM MT

Meredith Broadcasting says its 11 full-power TV stations will not pull the plug on analog Feb. 17, as originally planned.

"The Meredith Broadcasting Group plans to cooperate with Congress and the FCC by delaying the discontinuation of our analog signal to align with the new date passed by lawmakers," said Paul Karpowicz, President of the Meredith Broadcasting Group, in announcing the decision. "We believe that delaying our transition will help avoid consumer confusion and ensure that our viewers have ample time to prepare."

Congress passed the law this week to move the DTV transition date to June 12. Per the bill's directive, the FCC is allowing stations to cut off analog on Feb. 17 if they still want to, but it will make case-by-case decisions on whether those moves are in the public interest and may not let some stations go early.

Senator Jay Rockefeller (D-WVA), who, co-authored the bill, Friday urged stations to stay on until June 12.

The day before he had asked them to put consumers first, but he ratcheted up that appeal Friday.

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/173738-Meredith_Won_t_Pull_Plug_On_Analog.php


----------



## HDinVT

This article from February 4th states that all stations in this market(Burlington,VT - Plattsburgh, NY) will transition on February 17th as planned.

http://www.wcax.com/Global/story.asp?S=9791997

Granted its 2 days old.....

Kind of funny if true, since Senator Sanders was pushing for the delay.


----------



## Fontano

Scott Corbett said:


> Doesn't seem right that you have to give your name and email to comment. I won't be commenting.


I am curious.
Why? do you think it is not right?

I actually think it wouldn't be right to allow purely anonymous entries.
(even though you can put garbage data in there).

I take comments much more seriously when people are confident enough in them, to sign there name to it.

Are you afraid of some sort of retrobution or something?


----------



## robmadden1

_Phone call for Sen Rockefeller! Phone call for Sen Jay Rockefeller!_

*All W.Va. TV stations except WOAY*
Fred Pace
Register-Herald Reporter

Recently passed legislation will not affect several television stations in the region from changing to digital television broadcasting on Feb. 17, according to station officials.

"Every commercial television station in West Virginia will convert to digital-only broadcasting on Tuesday, Feb. 17, except for the ABC affiliate in the Oak Hill and Beckley market, WOAY-TV 4," said Michelle Crist, executive director of the West Virginia Broadcasters Association.



> *Crist said the recent DTV bill that moves the required national digital conversion date to June 12 was approved by Congress, but allows stations to go forward with the switch to digital-only broadcasting Feb. 17.
> 
> Crist said the president is expected to sign it into law in the next week to ten days.*


http://www.register-herald.com/local/local_story_036223038.html


----------



## sarhaynes

ziggy29 said:


> The problem is that the FCC is reserving the right to deny them, even though the "compromise bill" supposedly allowed for stations to proceed with full speed ahead on 2/17.
> 
> So in reality, we don't know whether these stations who say they will pull the analog plug on 2/17 will be allowed to do so. The FCC is apparently going to be that gatekeeper, and we don't know how inclined they will be to let the stations go ahead despite the wording in the bill.


It was their lead-in story on the local news today. They also said that the number of people in our market on waiting list for coupons was only 610 people out of 80,000 sets.

The text of the story can be found here:

http://www.nbc29.com/Global/story.asp?S=9796189&nav=menu496_2_5

The story also implies that the stations owned by Gray Communications will also switch (although they are Low-Power Stations and don't really need to).


----------



## Reggie3

robmadden1 said:


> *White House Seeks Comment on Delay Bill*
> Obama not likely to sign bill into law before Monday, asks for five day public comment period
> By John Eggerton -- Broadcasting & Cable, 2/6/2009 8:33:28 AM MT
> 
> It looks like the White House won't be signing the bill into law until at least Monday, the same day broadcasters must let the FCC know if they want to pull the plug on analog Feb. 17, which is now early but is the date the government has been telling them was the drop-dead date for years.
> *
> President Barack Obama, as part of his pledge of openness and transparency, said he would give the public five days to comment on bills before he signed them*
> 
> The text of the DTV delay bill has been posted on the White House Web site along with a comment form.
> 
> Broadcasters may make the transition on Feb. 17, but bill co-author Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D-WVA), chairman of the Senate Commerce Committee, has asked broadcasters to "put consumers first." The FCC is doing more than asking. Broadcasters must request to make the move by Feb. 9, but the FCC can deny the request if it doesn't think it is in the public interest, say, if all the stations in a market with high analog-only penetration want to go on Feb. 17.
> 
> The big problem is that the converter box coupon program slowdown, which prompted the Obama administration's request to move the date, may not be unstuck until March or April, so, the more stations that go Feb. 17, the more the bill's effect is weakened.
> 
> http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/173712-White_House_Seeks_Comment_on_Delay_Bill.php


thanks

Sadly those that are not ready now will not be ready in four years - well enough four months


----------



## prushing

robmadden1 said:


> *DTV Coupon Money Remains In Stimulus Bill*
> The $650 million would help get people off the coupon waiting list
> By John Eggerton -- Broadcasting & Cable, 2/6/2009 1:11:27 PM MT
> 
> For the moment, the $650 million in the economic stimulus package for the constipated DTV-to-analog converter box coupon program is safe.


$650 million? 6 million * $40 = $240 million :nono: $410 million more of "advertisements" scrolling on the bottom? :nono:


----------



## lwilli201

prushing said:


> $650 million? 6 million * $40 = $240 million :nono: $410 million more of "advertisements" scrolling on the bottom? :nono:


Don't the stations have to eat the cost of these PSA's?


----------



## joblo

ziggy29 said:


> The compromise bill provided for the ability of stations to continue to shutdown on 2/17 if they wanted to, but the proposed FCC implementation calls that provision into question.


First, it's not a proposal, it's a notice, i.e. a done deal.

Second, the bill does not say "if they want to", or anything like that. One more time:



> (a) Permissive Early Termination Under Existing Requirements- Nothing in this Act is intended to prevent a licensee of a television broadcast station from terminating the broadcasting of such station's analog television signal (and continuing to broadcast exclusively in the digital television service) prior to the date established by law under section 3002(b) of the Digital Television Transition and Public Safety Act of 2005 for termination of all licenses for full-power television stations in the analog television service as amended by section 2 of this Act) *so long as such prior termination is conducted in accordance with the Federal Communications Commission's requirements* in effect on the date of enactment of this Act, including the flexible procedures established in the Matter of Third Periodic Review of the Commission's Rules and Policies Affecting the Conversion to Digital Television (FCC 07-228, MB Docket No. 07-91, released December 31, 2007).


----------



## dave1234

Just a couple of weeks ago all the Portland Oregon stations stated they would switch on Feb. 17 regardless of what congress did. Now they are all delaying turning off analog until June.


----------



## Tom Servo

I have to wonder how many of these supposedly "not ready" TVs that are out there are TVs that are only used for videos/games?

I have a TV here in my room that is OTA-only but it is never used. Does that count my entire household as being unready for the switchover, when three other TVs have DirecTV receivers?

I'd like to know if someone is playing with the numbers to make things seem worse than they really are.

The solution isn't a nationwide delay, it's getting money back into the coupon program to get the waiting list taken care of. Then it's up to the consumers to use those coupons. And if they don't use them? _Tough stuff_.

This whole thing reminds me of how there's still a charge on most landline phone bills for touch-tone dialling despite the fact the technology has proliferated across the entire planet. Or how the FCC was asked to let cellular companies shut off the analog AMPS service a decade ago but they just got around to it a few years back after dragging their heels. Are we going to see delay after delay after delay because of some perceived problems?


----------



## lwilli201

dave1234 said:


> Just a couple of weeks ago all the Portland Oregon stations stated they would switch on Feb. 17 regardless of what congress did. Now they are all delaying turning off analog until June.


Not good. With none shutting down, there is no incentive to get ready. If a few station in each DMA shut down the analogue, they can not say that it against the public good because there are still some analogue station. Those that turn to a channel with static, that will get everyones attention. They can still go to an analogue station for emergency stuff. If true, Portland will not be any more ready for the switch as they are now.


----------



## Tom Robertson

Tom Servo said:


> I have to wonder how many of these supposedly "not ready" TVs that are out there are TVs that are only used for videos/games?
> 
> I have a TV here in my room that is OTA-only but it is never used. Does that count my entire household as being unready for the switchover, when three other TVs have DirecTV receivers?
> 
> I'd like to know if someone is playing with the numbers to make things seem worse than they really are.
> 
> The solution isn't a nationwide delay, it's getting money back into the coupon program to get the waiting list taken care of. Then it's up to the consumers to use those coupons. And if they don't use them? _Tough stuff_.
> 
> This whole thing reminds me of how there's still a charge on most landline phone bills for touch-tone dialling despite the fact the technology has proliferated across the entire planet. Or how the FCC was asked to let cellular companies shut off the analog AMPS service a decade ago but they just got around to it a few years back after dragging their heels. Are we going to see delay after delay after delay because of some perceived problems?


I'm pretty sure Nielsen verifies game vs. antenna in their surveys.

(And I never paid for touch tone in the one place they tried to charge. Thankfully the last 4 places I've lived all dropped those charges.) 

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## James Long

prushing said:


> $650 million? 6 million * $40 = $240 million :nono: $410 million more of "advertisements" scrolling on the bottom? :nono:


Many stations started those PSAs and crawls (where technically possible) back on January 17th. Station that choose to wait until the last few days to meet the notification requirements created their own problem, trying to get 120 message on the air in as many days that are left.

The real choice for stations is "paying" for the PSAs and crawls (how many broadcast stations charge for or offer crawls?) or paying for at least one more month of broadcasting.


----------



## robmadden1

*The DTV transition delay could end up costing over $500 million*

Earlier this week the powers that be voted to delay the DTV transition by four months to give more time for 5.8 million Americans to get ready. Part of the reason that many weren't ready though is that there weren't enough converter box coupons to go around -- something we all knew would happen a year ago. The cost to give every one of these people a coupon would've been about $232 million; but even if we would've gave them all two, it still would've been cheaper than the cost of a four month delay. Keep in mind that we're not mathematicians -- we did a few quick calculations and if you only include the costs we're aware of, this thing will cost us over $500 million. This doesn't include all the extra converter box coupons that are still needed. Our math is pretty simple, you take the 8,839 TV stations in America, times $10,000 per month to run the extra transmitter -- never mind the carbon footprint -- multiple it times four months and you're at over $353 million. But unfortunately that isn't all the money that's on the table. Now we admit we have no idea how much the delay will cost the winners of the spectrum auction, but if you just calculate the amount of interest on $20 billion dollars the government expects to receive, even at a low 3 percent for four months, and you get $200 million -- and that isn't even compounded. But hey how can you put a price on America's real favorite past time? Although the real kick in the head is that even after four months, we fully expect there will still be 2 million people that are not ready.

http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/02/0...d-up-costing-over-500-million/#readercomments


----------



## Thaedron

Scott Corbett said:


> Doesn't seem right that you have to give your name and email to comment. I won't be commenting.


they are free-form text entry fields... If you're worried about being identified, you could at the least be cryptic and and the most use an "alias"...


----------



## Thaedron

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Likewise here.
> 
> I basically said this was foolish legislation, as most stations are poised for the transition on the orignal date, and people have been told about this for over 4 years now. Anyone not prepared at this point is either procrastinating or else doesn't care much, because if they did, they would have acted by this time.


I had similar comments myself. The vast majority of the country is ready. We need to move forward, not stagnate/procrastinate. Also, I have to believe that letting the switch happen will either reduce costs (of the extra transmitters as others have mentioned) or spur additional economic activity through the course of stations moving forward with their digital plans.

President Obama, please act in the best interest of the MAJORITY of the country and veto this bill.


----------



## James Long

> President Barack Obama, as part of his pledge of openness and transparency, said he would give the public five days to comment on bills before he signed them.


I don't see a snowball's chance in hell that there will be a veto. But at least we get to yell at him a littte (or support the date change).

In OT News - President Obama is going to Elkhart Indiana on Monday Noon (a city with 18% unemployment in a county with 15.6% unemployment - up 10% since December 2007 - worst increase in the nation). Then he's off to Florida (IIRC). I'm not sure where he is planning on giving the 8pm news conference Monday from.


----------



## samhevener

aa9vi said:


> [Mod Edit: Political commentary is not permitted at DBStalk.] We have this real neat invention called the INTERNET and it has a WEBSITE that has LINKS explaining what is going to happen and WHAT YOU NEED TO DO. Who calls the FCC anyhow? Only someone who has not had enough fun waiting on hold for DirecTV, Comcast, AT&T, Allstate, your Mortgage company.... It's not like the website was designed by a 12 yr old with no information. It's very detailed.... and get this, YOU CAN APPLY FOR THAT $40 COUPON THERE TOO! Wow... what's next? A phone without a cord? Wow, that technologicalism stuff is really nice. back in my day we had to walk through 10 feet of snow to use the only pay phone in town at Bob's Corner store. Phone calls were 10 cents too then...


You still don't get it. Try thinking outside your own personal box for a minute and you will understand what the delay is about. If you don't understand the whole point of the delay at this point in time, you will never get it.


----------



## GaryPotter

On a related note, I wish the FCC would figure out what their going to do with low-power and Class-A stations. They still have no plan in that respect.


----------



## mopzo

robmadden1 said:


> As of February 1, Nielsen is calling 5.8 million homes still completely unready for the DTV transition, 5.1 percent of the population. That's up 700,000 from last month, but still apparently enough to put the kibosh on a February shutoff across the country. Albuquerque-Santa Fe still leads/trails all markets, we'll see if they get any special attention from the FCC and others over the next few months.
> 
> http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire...-update-51-of-us-households-still-unprepared/


Up 700,000 homes? What, they returned their converter boxes?


----------



## SamC

BTW:

Memo to the Neilsen Company relative to New Mexico.

The ABQ market is almost the entire state. New Mexico has a system of statewide LPTV repeaters. 

Since analog LPTV will NOT EVER shut down, many people there do not need a converter and are counted as "unready" even thought they have nothing to get ready for. Only people actually in ABQ who get OTA (which is to say a couple of dozen people) are unready.

The whole thing is based on figures no one examines. 

As predicted.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

mopzo said:


> Up 700,000 homes? What, they returned their converter boxes?


I keep telling people that they are making up these numbers to justify their cause to delay the conversion....


----------



## Christopher Gould

robmadden1 said:


> *The DTV transition delay could end up costing over $500 million*
> 
> Earlier this week the powers that be voted to delay the DTV transition by four months to give more time for 5.8 million Americans to get ready. Part of the reason that many weren't ready though is that there weren't enough converter box coupons to go around -- something we all knew would happen a year ago. The cost to give every one of these people a coupon would've been about $232 million; but even if we would've gave them all two, it still would've been cheaper than the cost of a four month delay. Keep in mind that we're not mathematicians -- we did a few quick calculations and if you only include the costs we're aware of, this thing will cost us over $500 million. This doesn't include all the extra converter box coupons that are still needed. Our math is pretty simple, you take the 8,839 TV stations in America, times $10,000 per month to run the extra transmitter -- never mind the carbon footprint -- multiple it times four months and you're at over $353 million. But unfortunately that isn't all the money that's on the table. Now we admit we have no idea how much the delay will cost the winners of the spectrum auction, but if you just calculate the amount of interest on $20 billion dollars the government expects to receive, even at a low 3 percent for four months, and you get $200 million -- and that isn't even compounded. But hey how can you put a price on America's real favorite past time? Although the real kick in the head is that even after four months, we fully expect there will still be 2 million people that are not ready.
> 
> http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/02/0...d-up-costing-over-500-million/#readercomments


8839 tv stations?


----------



## GaryPotter

SamC said:


> BTW:
> 
> Memo to the Neilsen Company relative to New Mexico.
> 
> The ABQ market is almost the entire state. New Mexico has a system of statewide LPTV repeaters.
> 
> Since analog LPTV will NOT EVER shut down, many people there do not need a converter and are counted as "unready" even thought they have nothing to get ready for. Only people actually in ABQ who get OTA (which is to say a couple of dozen people) are unready.
> 
> The whole thing is based on figures no one examines.
> 
> As predicted.


Not ever shut down?

What the hell?


----------



## SamC

Not ever. LPTV, both the repeaters that many stations use to extend their ranges and the independent stations that generally are controled by home shopping or preachers are not included in any of this.

New Mexico (except a few counties) and Hawaii consist of one market, because of LPTV repeaters. 

In my market, where the stations are spread out, the NBC has a UHF analog repeater and the CW has two in different locations, plus a couple of preachers and three home shopping scams. The statewide PBS has a sting of 11 LPTV stations. None of these will shut down under any version of the law, and if a person lives, for example, in rural New Mexico where they receive not the actual ABQ stations but the local repeaters, they have no need of any converter.


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## scooper

Samc - you're wrong - the LPTV stations and translators are coming later. I'd predict not later than 2012, if they don't voluntarily move faster than that. Just wait until the full power stations are settled down, then these will be looked at.


----------



## bobcamp1

Tom Servo said:


> This whole thing reminds me of how there's still a charge on most landline phone bills for touch-tone dialling despite the fact the technology has proliferated across the entire planet. Or how the FCC was asked to let cellular companies shut off the analog AMPS service a decade ago but they just got around to it a few years back after dragging their heels. Are we going to see delay after delay after delay because of some perceived problems?


Neither one of those statements, especially the last one, are even remotely true. But truthiness is rampant in this thread.

AMPS couldn't be shut down before Feb. 18, 2008. AT&T did almost immediately, as in Feb. 2007 they had data saying that less than one percent of its customers were still using TDMA/AMPS. Also, AT&T gave free used GSM phones (with 2 yr commitment + shipping charge) to those who were still using TDMA/AMPS.

Heck, the FCC had another sunset provision for Verizon Wireless where they had to put both CDMA and AMPS in all their phones, then gradually start reducing the amount so that in 2006(?) the phones were no longer required to support AMPS.

As far as touch tone dialing, in the year 2000 the FTC reported that the average charge for touch tone dialing was 6 cents. https://www.policyarchive.org/bitstream/handle/10207/897/RL30052_20030502.pdf?sequence=4 
Verizon doesn't charge for that anymore. They still support pulse dialing at no charge.


----------



## LCDSpazz

Obama vetoing this? His administration is the one that came up with this:lol:


----------



## aa9vi

Tom Robertson said:


> One of the comments also made in the debates (tho I can't remember which set of debates anymore) was that some of the people who aren't ready also are not likely to actually _use_ the internet either. So the Internet was great to get us here, it is not going to be much help getting the next group.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


neither is a cattleprod or pistol. Again, we're talking about 7% of the population that uses exclusively OTA. So, we're holding 93% of the nation back from clearer HD signals because of 7%? This is absurd. WBBM-DT operates on RF3 and the signal sucks. It can't move to RF12 until analog signs off. There are countless other examples of other stations across the country wanting to either move RF channels or increase power. This bill holds them back. It is a disservice to 93% of the population.


----------



## aa9vi

samhevener said:


> You still don't get it. Try thinking outside your own personal box for a minute and you will understand what the delay is about. If you don't understand the whole point of the delay at this point in time, you will never get it.


Sam, I know what the delay is really about (LTE, Wireless). Search on the internet... However, "political commentary is not allowed." So, I'll say this... it's not about the converter boxes.


----------



## jacksonm30354

WTVM (9 ABC/Raycom) in Columbus, GA I guess hasn't decided yet...

http://www.wtvm.com/Global/category.asp?C=104717&nav=menu91_1_4

Nothing indicated either way on WRBL (3 CBS/Media General), WXTX (54 FOX/Raycom), WLTZ (38 NBC/SagamoreHill), and WLGA (66 CW/Pappas) websites.

Seems all of the Atlanta stations are delaying - Meredith now says they are delaying so WGCL (46 CBS/Meredith) won't be switching Feb 17. So that leaves WSB (2 ABC/Cox) owned by Cox as the only one I haven't been able to find anything on. But with the others delaying I would doubt they'd still keep the Feb 17 date.

I did find this searching that might I found interesting. Sorry if it has been posted elsewhere on here. It shows the coverage area of the current nalog station and the new digital by market. It may not be fully up to date as I noticed it shows WTVM on digital Ch. 9 and it will be on Ch. 11 on a higher power so its digital foot print will be a bit larger than the analog not smaller s it would be if it stayed on Ch. 9.

http://www.fcc.gov/dtv/markets/


----------



## tnsprin

dorfd1 said:


> according to directv channel 99 the date for the transition is still 2-17-09


True until the bill is actually signed. Of course everyone expects it to be signed.


----------



## deanconst96

aa9vi said:


> Sam, I know what the delay is really about (LTE, Wireless). Search on the internet... However, "political commentary is not allowed." So, I'll say this... it's not about the converter boxes.


People wanted change so here we go. Hang on!


----------



## scooper

aa9vi said:


> Sam, I know what the delay is really about (LTE, Wireless). Search on the internet... However, "political commentary is not allowed." So, I'll say this... it's not about the converter boxes.


Exactly - it's about BUSINESS competitive advantage through whatever means necessary.


----------



## zman977

I left my comment on why the date should not be changed. I just wish the comment section gave you more space to type. I had to keep it to one reason when I can think of many reasons why it should not be changed.


----------



## jhillestad

Why dont they just cancel it all together and we will try again later.... sorta like a do over.... Maybe 4 years from now since the current climate is to whine about everything lets just call it a day.... if dtv transition was a blackberry it would have not been moved but its just tv so it can wait.... blah blah blah ... sad the greatest thing to happen to tv since color has to be delayed....


----------



## robmadden1

*Poll: Do you agree with the DTV transition delay?*

http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/02/07/poll-do-you-agree-with-the-dtv-transition-delay/


----------



## sarhaynes

sarhaynes said:


> The story also implies that the stations owned by Gray Communications will also switch (although they are Low-Power Stations and don't really need to).


I have confirmed that the Gray Communication Stations in Charlottesville are continuing with switch even though they are either Class A or Low Power and weren't even covered under the original transition.

Here is the link: http://www.charlottesvillenewsplex.tv/home/headlines/39111297.html

This means all commercial stations in this market will transition and we finally get High-Definition on CBS, ABC, and Fox!


----------



## Bobby H

jhillstad said:


> Why dont they just cancel it all together and we will try again later.... sorta like a do over....


The trouble is there's no going back and starting over from square one. Once you pop the cork on a bottle of champagne and pour it into a bunch of glasses it's more than just difficult to undo that and end up with a perfectly unopened bottle.

Frankly, I find it pretty outrageous that anyone in the FCC or government moved for a delay at this very late point. It would not have been such a stupid move if the FCC had brought up this problem a few months ago instead of less than a month before deadline.

As it stands, if the President signs the delay into law on Monday he will be doing so only a mere 8 days from the Feb. 17 deadline. That's just crazy. TV stations, telecommunications companies and many other parties have had plans in motion for YEARS. And those plans were designed to lead up to Feb. 17. Not June 12.

Four months of delay could literally add up to hundreds of millions of dollars or even more in lost money. That's also going to equal more than a few people in the TV and telecom industries losing their jobs to make up for that lost money. I think someone losing their job is a little more important than someone else losing their obsolete TV reception.

The vast majority of the American public is ready for the DTV change. They're tired of seeing the endless warning crawls running underneath the news or other shows. They get it already. The 5% or so of the holdouts just need to be shown their foot dragging isn't going to stop progress for the 95% of the rest of us. Throw the switch already!


----------



## samhevener

Reading all the comments in these threads one would think it's the end of the world. The end of the world is when you lose your job, your health insurance and your house. There is a lot more of that today going on today than analog TV stations staying on the air an extra 4 months or so. Six months from now this whole delay will be forgotten but Americans will still be losing their jobs, their health insurance and their homes.


----------



## SamC

scooper said:


> Samc - you're wrong - the LPTV stations and translators are coming later. I'd predict not later than 2012, if they don't voluntarily move faster than that. Just wait until the full power stations are settled down, then these will be looked at.


Your "predictions" are nice, an irrelevant, to my being right or wrong. I was explaining the law as it now exists. The law makes NO provision for an analog shut down for LPTV and NO provision for them "voluntarily" doing so. If an LPTV wanted to switch to digital, there is not even a form for it to fill out to ask permission to do so.

An entirely new law, with the accompanying give and take and riders providing for whatever, would be necessary. It might pass next Tuesday, or in 2050, or never.


----------



## Cholly

samhevener said:


> Reading all the comments in these threads one would think it's the end of the world. The end of the world is when you lose your job, your health insurance and your house. There is a lot more of that today going on today than analog TV stations staying on the air an extra 4 months or so. Six months from now this whole delay will be forgotten but Americans will still be losing their jobs, their health insurance and their homes.


Well, Sam, for once I agree with you! However, understand this: just because some people don't watch or understand the PSA's about the DTV transition or don't read the newspaper or access the Internet, that's no reason to delay the transition. Well meaning folks at Consumer's Union, the Congress and the president pushed the delay, thinking it would help. If you look at the Nielsen map, you'll see that the majority of people who have not prepared are in the 18 - 35 age group! While some of them may be poor, they certainly are not elderly.
I applaud those stations that are switching on the original scheduled date.


----------



## no static at all

Just ran across this from Popular science. Thought it might be of some interest.

http://www.popsci.com/gear-amp-gadgets/article/2009-02/its-all-about-airwaves


----------



## Tom Robertson

samhevener said:


> Reading all the comments in these threads one would think it's the end of the world. The end of the world is when you lose your job, your health insurance and your house. There is a lot more of that today going on today than analog TV stations staying on the air an extra 4 months or so. Six months from now this whole delay will be forgotten but Americans will still be losing their jobs, their health insurance and their homes.


I don't fear on behalf of me. Remember the cost of dual illumination is $10k per month, more or less. That's 2-5 people's jobs. Real people. Per station.

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## jpl

Tom Robertson said:


> I don't fear on behalf of me. Remember the cost of dual illumination is $10k per month, more or less. That's 2-5 people's jobs. Real people. Per station.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


Not to mention that, given the current economic climate, most of these stations aren't exactly swimming in cash. This is an unneeded expense on these stations - I wonder if any go under as a result of this nonsense. That's really what bugs me about this - because there are a handful of hold-outs, companies have to sacrifice tens of thousands of dollars... because a handful of people couldn't get their act together, we're going to slam the TV stations that provide the programming that these same people believe is their right to receive. Yeah, I feel for some of these people, but as many on here have already pointed out, it's not the elderly that are the biggest hold-outs. We keep hearing about hypothetical examples - of elderly people stuck without getting their TV programming. The data contradicts that - the hold-outs are predominantly in the group that are best able to handle this transition. Talk about irony. In terms of being able to buy their own converter boxes, and understanding the technology just fine, the group that's most responsible for this hold up are probably the ones best able to handle it.


----------



## James Long

samhevener said:


> The end of the world is when you lose your job, your health insurance and your house.


If you're working for a TV station that is being forced to keep an expensive analog transmitter on the air for four more months and has to trim staff to balance the books that can be the loss of job, health insurance, etc.

Overall the extension of analog service is probably not the end of the world. The way it is being done with stations potentially not being allowed to shut down is not acceptable.


----------



## James Long

SamC said:


> Your "predictions" are nice, an irrelevant, to my being right or wrong. I was explaining the law as it now exists. The law makes NO provision for an analog shut down for LPTV and NO provision for them "voluntarily" doing so. If an LPTV wanted to switch to digital, there is not even a form for it to fill out to ask permission to do so.


No form?

Some LPs have filed for a digital flash cut. One of my locals got a CP for digital flash cut that expires March 17th, 2009. If they flash cut the analog will be gone and the digital will be their only signal. There are a lot of LPs that have already done their digital flash cuts and are ATSC only.

For stations that are operating LD digital companion channels all they have to do is file a silent notification on their LP channel and cease operations.

Sorry Sam, but there ARE provisions in the law for LPs to turn off analog. Just no unified deadline for when they MUST cease analog broadcasting.


----------



## Link

There is no sense in delaying this after so much time and effort has been made on advertising the February 17, 2009 analog shut off date. Television stations have gone to great expenses to have a digital transmitter in place. People won't be anymore ready in June than they are now. If they are going to make this change, just do it already without delay. Some broadcasters have been broadcasting a digital signal for 10 years now. In our area, the problem hasn't been these silly coupons but has been the ability to find the converter boxes. Everytime Wal-Mart gets them in, they sell out quickly. I don't see why they cost $50-$60 to begin with.

The bottomline is that most people receiving over the air stations only, likely have already taken steps to make sure they receive the digital channels...if not they probably won't do anything until their signal goes out.


----------



## Bobby H

There's also another very critical factor to consider regarding those LP analog stations:

*TV manufacturers will stop including analog tuners in new TV sets.* Count on it happening very soon, if it isn't happening already in some cases. Eventually, years from now, people will just have digital-only TV hardware with no analog tuning capability.

TV manufacturers will be able to save a certain amount of money by not including analog tuners in new HDTV sets. That will equal either more profit on the TV set or being able to lower the price a bit. I think we'll see a lot of TV sets lacking analog tuners showing up on store shelves probably at least by late summer of this year.


----------



## lwilli201

Bobby H said:


> There's also another very critical factor to consider regarding those LP analog stations:
> 
> *TV manufacturers will stop including analog tuners in new TV sets.* Count on it happening very soon, if it isn't happening already in some cases. Eventually, years from now, people will just have digital-only TV hardware with no analog tuning capability.
> 
> TV manufacturers will be able to save a certain amount of money by not including analog tuners in new HDTV sets. That will equal either more profit on the TV set or being able to lower the price a bit. I think we'll see a lot of TV sets lacking analog tuners showing up on store shelves probably at least by late summer of this year.


Does this mean another converter box coupon program?


----------



## SamC

Once again, 

From the still switching to digital as it should in February NBC station in my market's website (16 is its LPTV repeater):

2. Will this analog channel 16 convert to digital by February 17, 2009?
Currently WSAZ has no plan to convert analog channel 16 to digital. We will continue to broadcast in analog until required to change by the FCC. 

There is nothing about a digital conversion relative to LPTV. It probably will continue for decades.


----------



## Tom Robertson

SamC said:


> Once again,
> 
> From the still switching to digital as it should in February NBC station in my market's website (16 is its LPTV repeater):
> 
> 2. Will this analog channel 16 convert to digital by February 17, 2009?
> Currently WSAZ has no plan to convert analog channel 16 to digital. We will continue to broadcast in analog until required to change by the FCC.
> 
> There is nothing about a digital conversion relative to LPTV. It probably will continue for decades.


As the market shifts to more and more digital, LPTV stations will likely find it foolish to continue to broadcast in the modern version of Black and White.


----------



## Kansas Zephyr

samhevener said:


> Reading all the comments in these threads one would think it's the end of the world. The end of the world is when you lose your job, your health insurance and your house. There is a lot more of that today going on today than analog TV stations staying on the air an extra 4 months or so. Six months from now this whole delay will be forgotten but Americans will still be losing their jobs, their health insurance and their homes.


Sam,

First let me say, you win. Had you taken my bet, I would have paid up. Congratulations.

<break>

Sam, you still don't seem to get it. That this delay may cost more jobs, and employ none. Do you acknowledge that fact? The very things you are calling "the end of the world". Your postings seem to indicate that you think there is no real consequence.


----------



## James Long

SamC said:


> From the still switching to digital as it should in February NBC station in my market's website (16 is its LPTV repeater):
> 
> 2. Will this analog channel 16 convert to digital by February 17, 2009?
> Currently WSAZ has no plan to convert analog channel 16 to digital. We will continue to broadcast in analog until required to change by the FCC.


Are you basing all of your knowledge on one station? That seems foolish.



> There is nothing about a digital conversion relative to LPTV. It probably will continue for decades.


Wrong. Three years ago LPTV stations were given the opportunity to file for "flash cut" over to digital operation. Then for a short window LPs were given the opportunity to file for "digital companion" channels to mirror their analog programming in digital in the same way full power stations mirrored their analog signal on full power digital stations. After the window LPs were still allowed to file for digital flash cuts.

To say there is _*NOTHING*_ about digital conversion relative to LPTV is a lie. There is plenty of valid FCC activities related to LPTVs converting to digital. Please check your facts. The only thing missing for LPTVs is a fixed analog shutoff date. LPTVs can convert to digital just as easily as regular broadcast TV.


----------



## bobcamp1

jpl said:


> Not to mention that, given the current economic climate, most of these stations aren't exactly swimming in cash. This is an unneeded expense on these stations - I wonder if any go under as a result of this nonsense.


The ones with good managers would have anticipated this and set aside some extra money. After all, if you've ever dealt with the federal government like I do you would know that delays are inevitable. And then there are further delays. And even more delays on top of that.

The ones with poor managers or who simply have limited funds can still switch on the 17th. What are the odds that all of the stations in a market are poor or poorly managed?

In this current economic climate, stations should be making MORE money as more people are simply staying home to watch TV.


----------



## jpl

bobcamp1 said:


> The ones with good managers would have anticipated this and set aside some extra money. After all, if you've ever dealt with the federal government like I do you would know that delays are inevitable. And then there are further delays. And even more delays on top of that.
> 
> The ones with poor managers or who simply have limited funds can still switch on the 17th. What are the odds that all of the stations in a market are poor or poorly managed?
> 
> In this current economic climate, stations should be making MORE money as more people are simply staying home to watch TV.


TV stations require advertizing dollars - that's their life-blood. If the economy sucks, one thing that companies do is... they slash their advertizing budgets. I don't care how much they may prepare for this - if their revenue starts dwindling, EVERY additional dollar spent on unnecessary expenses makes it that much harder to stay solvent. This is an unnecessary expense that's being put on these stations. I don't care how many people stay home to watch TV - while, in normal times, that can drive up the revenue for advertizing, these companies that are advertizing are hurting for money too. These companies (most of them) don't have the cash to provide for increased spending in advertizing dollars. These stations are getting hit from both ends - they're starting to lose money in lost advertizing revenue, AND they get hit with the added expense of having to keep their analogs going for a few more months.


----------



## Tom Robertson

Please remember that political commentary will be deleted. 

Thanks,
Tom


----------



## ziggy29

It wouldn't surprise me if the feds quietly give TARP or "stimulus" money to the stations who agree to keep their analog up until June 12. Given how many stations seem to be backpedaling from their original reassertions of shutting down analog after 2/17, I suspect there are a lot of carrots and/or sticks being administered behind the scenes.


----------



## CoriBright

Well it's the first time I've actually written to ANY President about it and I told them to stick to Feb 17th, to speed up the transition of translator stations to digital and to force DishNetwork and DirectTV to carry HD locals where they carry SD locals.

He said he wanted my opinion, so he got it!


----------



## jpl

CoriBright said:


> Well it's the first time I've actually written to ANY President about it and I told them to stick to Feb 17th, to speed up the transition of translator stations to digital and to force DishNetwork and DirectTV to carry HD locals where they carry SD locals.
> 
> He said he wanted my opinion, so he got it!


Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't your last point already (sort of) codified in FCC regulations? I could swear they passed a 'carry one, carry all' provision for the DBS companies with regard to local HD channels. If they carry any local HD channel in a market, they must carry all (don't know if that means that they must carry all HD if they carry SD in that market, or if this includes local subchannels). The FCC is allowing a transition period for this, due to the apparent cost of implementing this change, but I believe the regulations already call for something like this.


----------



## CoriBright

jpl said:


> Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't your last point already (sort of) codified in FCC regulations? I could swear they passed a 'carry one, carry all' provision for the DBS companies with regard to local HD channels. If they carry any local HD channel in a market, they must carry all (don't know if that means that they must carry all HD if they carry SD in that market, or if this includes local subchannels). The FCC is allowing a transition period for this, due to the apparent cost of implementing this change, but I believe the regulations already call for something like this.


Not quite what I meant.... DishNetwork carries Las Vegas locals in SD but not in HD. I meant that where SD locals are already carried, satellite providers must carry HD locals as well. I realize they are 'getting round to it eventually' but eventually is not good enough.

I'm in an area where we have only translator stations which are not required to transition to digital coverage. The only hope I have of getting HD locals is when Dish finally gets around to carrying them. And I'm very fed up waiting.


----------



## dorfd1

Did obama veto it?


----------



## Tom Robertson

Not yet. President Obama is still letting the public comment. I believe he is signing the bill tonight--either as the expected signing affirmative or the signing as a veto.


----------



## ziggy29

Tom Robertson said:


> Not yet. President Obama is still letting the public comment. I believe he is signing the bill tonight--either as the expected signing affirmative or the signing as a veto.


That'll sure give stations a lot of time to file their intent to terminate analog on 2/17 given that the deadline is, oh, TODAY. Frankly this whole thing smells like a plan which is intended to see that as few stations as possible are allowed to transition on 2/17.


----------



## Tom Robertson

ziggy29 said:


> That'll sure give stations a lot of time to file their intent to terminate analog on 2/17 given that the deadline is, oh, TODAY. Frankly this whole thing smells like a plan which is intended to see that as few stations as possible are allowed to transition on 2/17.


Stations who wait to file the simple one-page, online form are foolish. The bill won't change at this point. That is not in a president's purview.

The FCC acted immediately, in parallel with presidential action, to give everyone as much time as possible. I can't comment about their action, that would be political commentary not allowed at DBStalk.

President Obama is giving people time to comment. I can't comment about his action either for the same reason. 

It seems that stations who want to switch can. We've seen examples of how simple that form is. And the other form involved is an update to a form they have had to file regularly throughout.

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## ziggy29

Tom Robertson said:


> It seems that stations who want to switch can.


Well, the proof will be in the pudding when the FCC starts ruling on the applications. Just because stations can *file* doesn't mean the FCC is going to be very accommodating. I hope I'm wrong, but in reality, we don't know how the FCC is going to receive these requests.


----------



## James Long

bobcamp1 said:


> The ones with good managers would have anticipated this and set aside some extra money.
> 
> The ones with poor managers or who simply have limited funds can still switch on the 17th. What are the odds that all of the stations in a market are poor or poorly managed?


Thanks for blaming the victims. 

BTW: That tax cut that you were promised since 2005 and was guaranteed by federal law to take effect mid February? Forget about it. You're going to keep getting charged the higher rate for another four months. But it is OK ... if you were smart you would have budgeted for it. 

Perhaps you were not guaranteed by law to get a tax cut ... stations were. They were promised that they would not have to maintain analog broadcasting beyond February 17th, 2009. Good Americans who bit the bullet and went out and got their converter boxes were promised that they would need one by February 17th, 2009 --- not June.

The real forward thinking stations are the ones who have already turned off their analog feeds. They are the winners here.


----------



## James Long

jpl said:


> CoriBright said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... to speed up the transition of translator stations to digital and to force DishNetwork and DirectTV to carry HD locals where they carry SD locals.
> 
> 
> 
> Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't your last point already (sort of) codified in FCC regulations?
Click to expand...

Unfortunately not. The FCC requires, phased in, that any market with stations carried in HD must carry all stations in HD. If no stations in a market are carried in HD then the market can stay in 100% SD and still be within the rules.


----------



## ziggy29

James Long said:


> The real forward thinking stations are the ones who have already turned off their analog feeds. They are the winners here.


Yeah, I'll bet a lot of stations that opted to terminate early are thanking their lucky stars for their foresight (or just plan luck).


----------



## tkrandall

I am told by a local station engineering dept head that all the Atlanta commercial stations are expected to keep analog on thru June 12. That has no effect on their digital signals as they are all full power now. 

The two PBS stations in the market, however are affected either way, I believe. WGTV is very low power/directional on a temporary RF assignement, and WPBA's ATSC broadcast is on a lower tower next to their analog tower. I not sure the FCC would allow them to turn off their analog and/or turn up their full power digital under the public notice guidelines.


----------



## jpl

James Long said:


> Unfortunately not. The FCC requires, phased in, that any market with stations carried in HD must carry all stations in HD. If no stations in a market are carried in HD then the market can stay in 100% SD and still be within the rules.


Thanks for the clarification. I wasn't sure if it applied to SD as well - meaning that if they carried SD for a market they would have been required to carry the HD as well.


----------



## James Long

jpl said:


> Thanks for the clarification. I wasn't sure if it applied to SD as well - meaning that if they carried SD for a market they would have been required to carry the HD as well.


The general rule is to provide equal bandwidth. If all the channels are carried in SD then they are getting equal bandwidth. If four get HD treatment and other HD channels don't then there is a problem. There are many factors involved, for example stations that refuse to allow carriage of their HD signals because they want more money. If stations don't have a HD feed then there is no need to carry that station in HD.

The phasing in will take a few years (otherwise there would be no new HD locals until every market with HD locals had all of their HD locals ... which could lead to markets losing all locals if that were enforced). For now what DISH and DirecTV is doing is legal.


----------



## BattleScott

aa9vi said:


> neither is a cattleprod or pistol. Again, we're talking about 7% of the population that uses exclusively OTA. So, we're holding 93% of the nation back from clearer HD signals because of 7%? This is absurd. WBBM-DT operates on RF3 and the signal sucks. It can't move to RF12 until analog signs off. There are countless other examples of other stations across the country wanting to either move RF channels or increase power. This bill holds them back. It is a disservice to 93% of the population.


The entire transition only affects OTA users and the stations that send the signals. Assuming the 7% figure for OTA usage to be accurate, how exactly are the other 93% impacted?


----------



## Kansas Zephyr

BattleScott said:


> The entire transition only affects OTA users and the stations that send the signals. Assuming the 7% figure for OTA usage to be accurate, how exactly are the other 93% impacted?


Some cable head-ends, in outlying areas, may receive better digital signals (better stability) after the analog cut-off, as the stations can then ramp-up to full power on their final channel assignment.

So, not just OTA users can see benefits. Not every cable system uses a fiber feed, or is close to the transmitters for OTA pickup.


----------



## lwilli201

Am I wrong or is there an ALL or NONE phenomenon going on here. No station want to lose the not ready viewers to their competitors so to keep the status quo, if some do not switch off analogue, none do. This is probably not happening in EVERY DMA but it appears to happening in some. 2 Kansas City stations submitted their shut off paperwork on 2/3 Feb and both are not shutting down as far as I can determine. One station went all digital 15 Dec 08.


----------



## Bobby H

BattleScott said:


> The entire transition only affects OTA users and the stations that send the signals. Assuming the 7% figure for OTA usage to be accurate, how exactly are the other 93% impacted?


Who claimed only 7% of the American public uses only over the air TV signals? According to the Nielsen numbers, 6% aren't ready. That ratio of prepared versus unprepared OTA users seems very strange.

There is a significant number of HDTV owners who view HD channels over the air. This delay can negatively affect them over the issue of some TV stations not being able to go to full power and/or stay on temporary channel assignments until June. Being full power or not may make the difference between a viewer receiving the DTV signal or not.


----------



## Kansas Zephyr

lwilli201 said:


> Am I wrong or is there an ALL or NONE phenomenon going on here. No station want to lose the not ready viewers to their competitors so to keep the status quo, if some do not switch off analogue, none do. This is probably not happening in EVERY DMA but it appears to happening in some. 2 Kansas City stations submitted their shut off paperwork on 2/3 Feb and both are not shutting down as far as I can determine. One station went all digital 15 Dec 08.


+1

So far all, of the stations here in Wichita are sticking to a 2/17 analog cut-off.

But, if one caves, I'll think you'll see a domino-effect of delays, since nobody wants to be the "bad guy" and end early. Even if it costs a job, or two, to pay for the unbudgeted expense of continued analog operation.


----------



## BattleScott

Kansas Zephyr said:


> Some cable head-ends, in outlying areas, may receive better digital signals (better stability) after the analog cut-off, as the stations can then ramp-up to full power on their final channel assignment.
> 
> So, not just OTA users can see benefits. Not every cable system uses a fiber feed, or is close to the transmitters for OTA pickup.


OK, so how does it affect the other 92.9%?


----------



## BattleScott

Bobby H said:


> Who claimed only 7% of the American public uses only over the air TV signals? According to the Nielsen numbers, 6% aren't ready. That ratio of prepared versus unprepared OTA users seems very strange.


The poster I was responding to. Even if low, the figure is still not far off. Estimates from 2008 seemed to range anywhere for 6 to 15%. Not a sginficant chunk by either extreme.


Bobby H said:


> There is a significant number of HDTV owners who view HD channels over the air. This delay can negatively affect them over the issue of some TV stations not being able to go to full power and/or stay on temporary channel assignments until June. Being full power or not may make the difference between a viewer receiving the DTV signal or not.


 A great deal will also be negatively impacted by the switch when some of the stations they are currently receiving are suddenly gone due to changing frequencies.


----------



## Kansas Zephyr

BattleScott said:


> OK, so how does it affect the other 92.9%?


You really think that only 0.01% of cable systems use an OTA pickup? You need to think about how many different cable systems can be in a single DMA.



BattleScott said:


> A great deal will also be negatively impacted by the switch when some of the stations they are currently receiving are suddenly gone due to changing frequencies.


Which will be an issue whenever the end of analog arrives.


----------



## robmadden1

fluffybear said:


> If I am not mistaken (please correct if I am):
> 
> As of 8:20am Eastern on February 9, 2009 - Obama has not yet the bill.
> 
> I saw on Friday's late news that he was having some second thoughts and wanted to gage some public opinions before signing it thus this why he said he would until today to act.
> 
> If the above is accurate, It would appear some stations are jumping the gun by announcing the June date..


So could there be a posability he may veto the bill?


----------



## robmadden1

As of this time, President Obama has still not signed the DTV Delay bill. You can check the status of the bill at:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d111:S352:

(Just a thought: Can you imagine the craziness that will occur if the president vetoes the bill?)


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## samhevener

James Long said:


> If you're working for a TV station that is being forced to keep an expensive analog transmitter on the air for four more months and has to trim staff to balance the books that can be the loss of job, health insurance, etc.
> 
> Overall the extension of analog service is probably not the end of the world. The way it is being done with stations potentially not being allowed to shut down is not acceptable.


I have to admit I wasn't 100% correct on my points. It's bad that broadcasters are losing money because of the delay. I think almost everyone will gain a little from the delay. Not all stations are waiting until June 12th but some are. In the case of WKYC channel 3 in Cleveland the switch to digital is costing them plenty. They are switching to UHF channel 17 for digital from channel 2 at the present time. This change requires them to build a new transmission tower for a new UHF antenna. There is some question if the antenna and tower will be ready by June 12. Only time will tell. Until the antenna is ready they will be SD on channel 3 and low power DT on channel 2.


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## Tom Robertson

samhevener said:


> I have to admit I wasn't 100% correct on my points. It's bad that broadcasters are losing money because of the delay. I think almost everyone will gain a little from the delay. Not all stations are waiting until June 12th but some are. In the case of WKYC channel 3 in Cleveland the switch to digital is costing them plenty. They are switching to UHF channel 17 for digital from channel 2 at the present time. This change requires them to build a new transmission tower for a new UHF antenna. There is some question if the antenna and tower will be ready by June 12. Only time will tell. Until the antenna is ready they will be SD on channel 3 and low power DT on channel 2.


I won't gain anything from the delay. I won't lose anything either, that I know of. But I've met people online who I sure hope don't lose their job or have to cover for someone else who does lose their job.

All stations have had to spend money to switch. WKYC is one of those stations that chose to use two channel assignments along the way. A pre-transition channel, 17, followed by a post transition channel, 2. (Very strange set of channels. I'm surprised they didn't pick their original analog channel.)

Anyway, the delay shouldn't make any difference for their digital operations. They apparently maximized their DTV facility before May 2000 so their UHF tower has long be operational, at full power, etc. And that DMA does not have a map indicating a significant change of coverage between their analog and digital facilities. Again, they chose the added cost of a dual DTV move. (Interesting history, they started as channel 4, then moved to 3, now moving to channel 2...) 

So WKYC will be like many stations, paying for extra energy costs during the delay. This all for the 3.71% who are not ready including 1.5% over 55 who aren't ready. So I'm not seeing how WKYC is helped at all.

Cheers,
Tom


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## BattleScott

Kansas Zephyr said:


> You really think that only 0.01% of cable systems use an OTA pickup? You need to think about how many different cable systems can be in a single DMA..


It is 0.1% not 0.01%. In terms of only those operators who would see a significant improvement in their ability to receive OTA signals due to analog cutoff and the total customers they serve, I'd guess it's a pretty close figure. I'll even go to 1.0%, still insignificant.



Kansas Zephyr said:


> Which will be an issue whenever the end of analog arrives.


Exactly, my point is that many OTA viewers will be trading one set of issues for another, so the delay is not really going to harm them.

Overall, the bottom line (and my only real point here) is that while certainly a very small percentage of "Digital Ready" viewers in selected markets are being negatively impacted by the delay, the overwhelming majority are not affected by it.


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## fluffybear

robmadden1 said:


> As of this time, President Obama has still not signed the DTV Delay bill. You can check the status of the bill at:
> http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d111:S352:
> 
> (Just a thought: Can you imagine the craziness that will occur if the president vetoes the bill?)


This was my concern. If Obama decides to veto this bill (highly unlikely), we are back to the next Tuesday. 
Many stations jumped the gun and immediately begun promoting the new date. Personally, I would like to see him veto the bill and not just because it was a dumb idea to start with but also to teach these stations who decided to jump the gun and put the cart before the horse..


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## ziggy29

Question: Can the FCC still enforce the 2/9 deadline for filing intent to shut off analog on the 17th when it's now the 10th and apparently the delay still isn't signed into law?


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## James Long

ziggy29 said:


> Question: Can the FCC still enforce the 2/9 deadline for filing intent to shut off analog on the 17th when it's now the 10th and apparently the delay still isn't signed into law?


The FCC set the deadline. It is their deadline to enforce. Nothing in the law required stations to file intent by a specific date. The date is just part of the FCC's managing of the situation.


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## dorfd1

I hope Obama vetos the bill!


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## SParker

dorfd1 said:


> I hope Obama vetos the bill!


Every public forum I've read so far seems like a 95/5 against a deadline extension. So the public have spoken.


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## James Long

SParker said:


> Every public forum I've read so far seems like a 95/5 against a deadline extension. So the public have spoken.


The country is 95/5 ready. And yet Congress still spoke.


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## joblo

Tom Robertson said:


> All stations have had to spend money to switch. WKYC is one of those stations that chose to use two channel assignments along the way. A pre-transition channel, 17, followed by a post transition channel, 2. (Very strange set of channels. I'm surprised they didn't pick their original analog channel.)
> 
> Anyway, the delay shouldn't make any difference for their digital operations. They apparently maximized their DTV facility before May 2000 so their UHF tower has long be operational, at full power, etc. And that DMA does not have a map indicating a significant change of coverage between their analog and digital facilities. Again, they chose the added cost of a dual DTV move. (Interesting history, they started as channel 4, then moved to 3, now moving to channel 2...)
> 
> So WKYC will be like many stations, paying for extra energy costs during the delay. This all for the 3.71% who are not ready including 1.5% over 55 who aren't ready. So I'm not seeing how WKYC is helped at all.


You have this backwards. WKYC is operating digital 2 now, and will move to digital 17 later.

Digital 17 will take more power than digital 2 and analog 3 combined. The delay should therefore reduce WKYC's power bill for a while, assuming that (1) WDLI in Canton continues its analog operation on channel 17 through June 12, and (2) construction of WKYC's channel 17 tower, currently on hold due to weather-related issues, is actually completed by June 13. WKYC received an STA to operate digital channel 2 for six months beyond February 17 due to construction delays with channel 17.

So the delay will definitely help those with interference problems on channel 2, because they will be able to watch WKYC in analog through the end of the current TV season, rather than having to rely on digital channel 2 for some period of time.


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## bobcamp1

James Long said:


> Thanks for blaming the victims.
> 
> BTW: That tax cut that you were promised since 2005 and was guaranteed by federal law to take effect mid February? Forget about it. You're going to keep getting charged the higher rate for another four months. But it is OK ... if you were smart you would have budgeted for it.


A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Whenever you are promised something, and it's been almost four years and you still haven't gotten it, you might not want to count on it. When it's promised by the federal government, you definitely don't want to count on it.

I work for a company who works for a federal agency. We budget for delays. Delays are very common. We indirectly work for a 536-headed monster who gets a new set of heads every two years. The possibility of them changing their mind is something that's always in the back of my mind.

And "victims" is too strong a word. Most of these stations will still make money. And the ones that won't still can go all digital if they want. What's the big deal?


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## Tom Robertson

joblo said:


> You have this backwards. WKYC is operating digital 2 now, and will move to digital 17 later.
> 
> Digital 17 will take more power than digital 2 and analog 3 combined. The delay should therefore reduce WKYC's power bill for a while, assuming that (1) WDLI in Canton continues its analog operation on channel 17 through June 12, and (2) construction of WKYC's channel 17 tower, currently on hold due to weather-related issues, is actually completed by June 13. WKYC received an STA to operate digital channel 2 for six months beyond February 17 due to construction delays with channel 17.
> 
> So the delay will definitely help those with interference problems on channel 2, because they will be able to watch WKYC in analog through the end of the current TV season, rather than having to rely on digital channel 2 for some period of time.


That's what I get from reading the FCC docs... 

I see that the nightlight summary has them reversed, but the detailed facility and licenses describe the same situation you have.

Cheers,
Tom


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## Bobby H

BattleScott said:


> A great deal will also be negatively impacted by the switch when some of the stations they are currently receiving are suddenly gone due to changing frequencies.


For most people that problem will be solved pretty easily by using the "channel scan" function of the HDTV set, converter box or other receiver with a built in ATSC tuner (such as a ViP-722 receiver for instance).

Some viewers out on the peripheral fringes of a TV station's analog signal reach will lose the station entirely after the transition to DTV. However, those viewers were probably already getting terrible analog reception anyway (if any signal at all) and would simply have to choose between installing a high quality amplified outdoor antenna or subscribing to satellite TV.


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## ziggy29

Bobby H said:


> For most people that problem will be solved pretty easily by using the "channel scan" function of the HDTV set, converter box or other receiver with a built in ATSC tuner (such as a ViP-722 receiver for instance).


Except for those of us who have the brain-dead current D* implementation of OTA, where the boxes are unable to channel scan and are dependent on external databases being updated in a timely manner.


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## RAD

ziggy29 said:


> Except for those of us who have the brain-dead current D* implementation of OTA, where the boxes are unable to channel scan and are dependent on external databases being updated in a timely manner.


Then again, if D* does it right then the customer won't need to do anything at all since they'll update the box for new channel assignements. But IMHO where they had a fighting shot at this before with this new law where each station can be doing different dates I see this maybe turning into a mess.


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## cforrest

Not sure if this was posted or not, but this is the pdf indicating all stations filing to go digital on or before February date instead of June:

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-09-221A5.pdf


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## BattleScott

Bobby H said:


> For most people that problem will be solved pretty easily by using the "channel scan" function of the HDTV set, converter box or other receiver with a built in ATSC tuner (such as a ViP-722 receiver for instance).
> 
> Some viewers out on the peripheral fringes of a TV station's analog signal reach will lose the station entirely after the transition to DTV. However, those viewers were probably already getting terrible analog reception anyway (if any signal at all) and would simply have to choose between installing a high quality amplified outdoor antenna or subscribing to satellite TV.


There will be quite a few 'surprised' folks who thought they were ready only to find out their UHF antenna no longer gets all of their OTA digital signals. In many markets, there are stations currently broadcasting their digital signals on a UHF assignment that will be switching them to their VHF transmitters for full power operation. A simple re-scan won't fix that.


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## scooper

cforrest said:


> Not sure if this was posted or not, but this is the pdf indicating all stations filing to go digital on or before February date instead of June:
> 
> http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-09-221A5.pdf


That's not quite what you got - what you have is a listing of all full power TV stations, including the ones that are turning off analog on or before Feb 17.


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## Tom Robertson

scooper said:


> That's not quite what you got - what you have is a listing of all full power TV stations, including the ones that are turning off analog on or before Feb 17.


Semantics, semantics. Yes you are slightly more correct, but so what.


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## James Long

scooper said:


> That's not quite what you got - what you have is a listing of all full power TV stations, including the ones that are turning off analog on or before Feb 17.


We'll have to check it against Trip's list to make sure the FCC got it right.


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## scooper

James Long said:


> We'll have to check it against Trip's list to make sure the FCC got it right.


Falcon listed all 3 - 
A1 is the notice itself
A3 is the "list of those supposedly shutting down"
A5 is the list of all stations in the US


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## James Long

And yet there are still problems with the FCC's list.


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## Herdfan

ziggy29 said:


> Except for those of us who have the brain-dead current D* implementation of OTA, where the boxes are unable to channel scan and are dependent on external databases being updated in a timely manner.





RAD said:


> Then again, if D* does it right then the customer won't need to do anything at all since they'll update the box for new channel assignements.


Actually, one of my locals went all digital a couple of weeks ago and moved from 47 to their final slot at 13. D* made the change properly, but I still had to go back through Antenna Setup for the change to reflect on my receivers. (HR20's, HR21 w/AM21)


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## scooper

James Long said:


> And yet there are still problems with the FCC's list.


No arguement


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## RAD

Herdfan said:


> Actually, one of my locals went all digital a couple of weeks ago and moved from 47 to their final slot at 13. D* made the change properly, but I still had to go back through Antenna Setup for the change to reflect on my receivers. (HR20's, HR21 w/AM21)


What did you have to change on the antenna setup when the change happened?


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## Herdfan

After the station made the change, I was getting No Signal messages on that station and it was showing "0" on the signal meter.

So I just went back in and reran the Antenna Setup routine (had to do it on each receiver) like I did the first time I set it up. Once the setup completed, the station was back.

So D* knew there had been a change and updated my receiver accordingly. As far as I know, we never lost the SD version of the channel which had been supplied by the DT feed since October.

DISH subs did lose the HD feed for about a week, but not the SD feed.


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## RAD

Herdfan said:


> After the station made the change, I was getting No Signal messages on that station and it was showing "0" on the signal meter.
> 
> So I just went back in and reran the Antenna Setup routine (had to do it on each receiver) like I did the first time I set it up. Once the setup completed, the station was back.
> 
> So D* knew there had been a change and updated my receiver accordingly. As far as I know, we never lost the SD version of the channel which had been supplied by the DT feed since October.
> 
> DISH subs did lose the HD feed for about a week, but not the SD feed.


Thanks for the answer. It would be nice if D* would have sent something out letting folks know to do this on the cut over date, or even nicer if the STB would make the change transparent to the user.


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## joblo

scooper said:


> cforrest said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure if this was posted or not, but this is the pdf indicating all stations filing to go digital on or before February date instead of June:
> 
> http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-09-221A5.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> That's not quite what you got - what you have is a listing of all full power TV stations, including the ones that are turning off analog on or before Feb 17.
Click to expand...

No, actually, it's exactly what s/he's got: a pdf *indicating* -- s/he didn't say "_*listing*_", you did -- all stations filing to go digital, etc.

(Unless, of course, you're *colorblind*... )


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## scooper

joblo said:


> No, actually, it's exactly what s/he's got: a pdf *indicating* -- s/he didn't say "_*listing*_", you did -- all stations filing to go digital, etc.
> 
> (Unless, of course, you're *colorblind*... )


Here is the EXACT postings from the FCC website -

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-09-221A1.pdf
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-09-221A3.pdf
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-09-221A5.pdf

A1 - is the Notice itself
A3 - is the FCC's "List of stations to go silent on analog" (appendix A of A1)
A5 - is a listing of all Stations in the US, possibly including that information (appendix B of A1)

Happy now ?


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## James Long

OK ... don't make Tom send you to your rooms. Break it up!


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## Tom Robertson

scooper said:


> Here is the EXACT postings from the FCC website -
> 
> http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-09-221A1.pdf
> http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-09-221A3.pdf
> http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-09-221A5.pdf
> 
> A1 - is the Notice itself
> A3 - is the FCC's "List of stations to go silent on analog" (appendix A of A1)
> A5 - is a listing of all Stations in the US, possibly including that information (appendix B of A1)
> 
> Happy now ?


No... your links had crazy "..." in them (otherwise known as ellipses). So I fixed them for you...


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## joblo

scooper said:


> Happy now ?


*Yes, certainly... but I was happy before, too.... *


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## scooper

Tom Robertson said:


> No... your links had crazy "..." in them (otherwise known as ellipses). So I fixed them for you...


Thank you..

I'm not having a good night - incredible sinus pain.....


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## robmadden1

I don't understand has the bill been signed or not?


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## Tom Robertson

Not that I can tell. I regularly check Thomas' Public Laws: http://thomas.loc.gov/bss/d111/d111laws.html, and the Whitehouse blog: http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/

(As well as the bill's status, which is a bit tougher to bookmark since I go thru a Thomas search that doesn't last.)

Cheers,
Tom


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## ibooksrule

Hopefully he does not sign it. I get tired of not being able to pick up NBC here because they use 90% of the broadcasting power for the analog and only a small portion for digital 3450 kW (analog)
450 kW (digital)
And channel 9 ABC is only 316 kW (analog)
85 kW (digital)

I do not agree that this will help anyone. People will still wait. And when tv goes dark then they will go get the box. If people are not ready its not the govts problem. If its not a majority then they will just have to deal with it. There are alternatives but of course you can get a dtv converter box.


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## robmadden1

If this bill is allowed to become law without signature, the June 12 date never exists for a period of a couple of days after the existing cutoff date and broadcasters that didn't cease analog operations before February 18th violated existing law that has been in force for years. Yes, I understand the FCC actions of last week were in "good faith" as are the changed plans of a number of broadcasters, but that doesn't excuse anyone of not being able to meet the letter of the current law.

The way this is shaping up, I think it would be very prudent for broadcasters to plan for analog shutdown on the 17th as originally scheduled. The law is the law, as they always tell us, and the FCC, even though acting in "good faith" on a contingency still did not have the authority to change the rules or to permit analog operations past the 17th until the bill was signed into law.

Right now, with less than a week to go and the delay act still not signed into law, the only legally defensible position a broadcaster has is to plan to terminate analog as originally scheduled by current law.


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## joblo

robmadden1 said:


> If this bill is allowed to become law without signature,


Interesting speculation, but has anyone seen any credible reports anywhere that the President might not sign the bill?

I think he'll sign it sometime this week and that will be that.


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## ziggy29

joblo said:


> Interesting speculation, but has anyone seen any credible reports anywhere that the President might not sign the bill?
> 
> I think he'll sign it sometime this week and that will be that.


He's certainly not making any friends in the broadcasting business by waiting this long to act on it.


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## samhevener

Only one highpower TV station in the Cleveland/Akron area is shutting down Feb 17. WOAC channel 67 in Canton is the only one that has permission from the FCC to close. WJW channel 8 and WVIZ channel 23 say they many shut on March 14.
http://www.cleveland.com/businessdiary/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/other/1234344775208350.xml&coll=2


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## Tom Robertson

<Moderator Note>Please remember that political commentary is not permitted at DBStalk.com.

This is not just one party vs. another. It also includes commentary and speculations about motivations for actions or inactions of any person or government body.

Thank you for understanding,
Tom


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## slowmoe

QUOTE=Tom Robertson;1993563 Not that I can tell. I regularly check Thomas' Public Laws: http://thomas.loc.gov/bss/d111/d111laws.html, and the Whitehouse blog: http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/

(As well as the bill's status, which is a bit tougher to bookmark since I go thru a Thomas search that doesn't last.)Have you tried Open Congress before? Here you will plainly see the status, glad I could help.

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-s328/show


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## BattleScott

robmadden1 said:


> If this bill is allowed to become law without signature, the June 12 date never exists for a period of a couple of days after the existing cutoff date and broadcasters that didn't cease analog operations before February 18th violated existing law that has been in force for years. Yes, I understand the FCC actions of last week were in "good faith" as are the changed plans of a number of broadcasters, but that doesn't excuse anyone of not being able to meet the letter of the current law.
> 
> The way this is shaping up, I think it would be very prudent for broadcasters to plan for analog shutdown on the 17th as originally scheduled. The law is the law, as they always tell us, and the FCC, even though acting in "good faith" on a contingency still did not have the authority to change the rules or to permit analog operations past the 17th until the bill was signed into law.
> 
> Right now, with less than a week to go and the delay act still not signed into law, the only legally defensible position a broadcaster has is to plan to terminate analog as originally scheduled by current law.


So, if this is true, it would seem that more stations that are capable of meeting the original deadline might be more likely to do so. Additionally, it would seem that the more stations that do decide to adhere to the original deadline, perhaps persuaded by much better than originally thought "readiness figures" in the NAB report, the less of an actual impact the "delay bill" will ultimately have on the project overall. Interesting.


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## scooper

It would be smart for just about all stations to be ready to transition on Feb 17. At least until we know the status of the bill.


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## robmadden1

*491 TV Stations Want To Keep Feb. 17 DTV Transition Date*

Between a quarter and a third of all TV stations want to go ahead and pull the plug on analog Feb. 17, which could make for what is effectively a staggered start to the DTV era, depending on how many the FCC allows to go on that date.
... 
Any station the FCC decides can't go early--because it is not in the public interest--will get the news "promptly," says the commission's public notice, but it does not give a date certain for informing stations. It will have to be prompt, since even if the FCC lets them know today (Feb. 10), they have only one week to change their plans.

http://www.contentagenda.com/article/CA6636581.html?industryid=45174


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## robmadden1

Looks like an awful lot of markets have at least one station that wants to kill analog by February 17th.










http://republicans.energycommerce.house.gov/News/PRArticle.aspx?NewsID=6832


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## Tom Robertson

Out of curiosity, I wonder how that map looks if one took the stations that already switched or never had analog. 

Obviously with 210 DMAs and only 190ish stations having already switched, it should be somewhat different.

I will comment that using the bar of "One Station planning to switch" seems like it could mislead. If it were "a station from the big 4 (or 5) networks" that might be more telling.

Cheers,
Tom


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## lwilli201

Kansas City had one channel go all digital on 15 December 2008, KCWE, CW, before all this mayhem. That would be the only reason Kansas City is green.


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## James Long

The map of markets that will be ALL DIGITAL on February 18th is about 11 markets. Wilmington and Hawaii are of course gone ... but in at least nine markets ALL stations have filed to be digital. Hopefully the FCC won't get in the way.


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## Brent04

slowmoe said:


> QUOTE=Tom Robertson;1993563 Not that I can tell. I regularly check Thomas' Public Laws: http://thomas.loc.gov/bss/d111/d111laws.html, and the Whitehouse blog: http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/
> 
> (As well as the bill's status, which is a bit tougher to bookmark since I go thru a Thomas search that doesn't last.)
> 
> Have you tried Open Congress before? Here you will plainly see the status, glad I could help.
> 
> http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-s328/show


The one you linked to on Open Congress is the bill that the house stopped. The current one is: http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-s352/show


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## lwilli201

robmadden1 said:


> *491 TV Stations Want To Keep Feb. 17 DTV Transition Date*
> 
> ...
> Any station the FCC decides can't go early--because it is not in the public interest--will get the news "promptly," says the commission's public notice, but it does not give a date certain for informing stations. It will have to be prompt, since even if the FCC lets them know today (Feb. 10), they have only one week to change their plans.


I would assume that any station ordered to not shut off analogue would have a period for disputing the decision. The FCC could really throw a monkey wrench in to the process by not allowing a station to shut down where there is another station waiting for the freed up channel. Although I doubt that any station told not to shut down will turn to legal actions against the FCC, but legally I think the FCC would be on shaky grounds picking and choosing who has to keep paying an extra electric bill and who does not.


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## James Long

We have a law ...

Please see new thread: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=152143


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