# Adventures in Whole Home DVR Install



## dfunk (Oct 22, 2006)

I had a tech out today to set me up with Whole Home DVR... I ended up canceling the install and then calling customer retention. For reference, my current setup is:
1 HR20-700
1 R15-500
1 H20-100

I was told that the R15 and H20 were not compatible and would require replacement. The CSR agreed to replace the R15 with an HD-DVR and the order was completed including swap H20 for new HD receiver, do the Whole Home DVR Upgrade incl. ICK, and free install... total was $110 incl tax. I was happy, but expected that the CSR was misinformed and the techs would bring me an R22 for the R15.

The techs showed up today and were prepared to replace the R15 with new HD-DVR, but it became clear that they didn't really know what they were doing. I was told the following:

1.) I need a new dish. (Under "System Info & Test" in setup menu, it says I have "Slimline-5" next to "Dish Type". It was installed in 2006 when the H20 was brand new and the HR20 was not out yet). They were not going to charge for this.
*
Do I need a new dish for SWiM and Whole Home DVR?*

2.) They said my HR20-700 was not compatible for SWiM and Whole Home DVR and would also need replacement. Cost would be $199. This conflicts with everything I have read. After they made several calls, they said it was "supported", but that it would cause a lot of problems and they had never personally been able to get an HR20-700 to work for this.

*Are people using HR20-700 successfully with SWiM and Whole Home DVR?*

*They said for the HR20-700 to function in this setup, it would have to be connected to the internet at all times. Is this accurate?*

*They said a manual download had to be forced to the HR20-700 for it to work with SWiM and that this was very problematic. True?*

I canceled based on their recommendation that this was never going to work correctly if I didn't also replace the HR20-700. I also had serious doubts about their ability to do the install.

I have a new order after talking to customer retention. New order is: 1) replace the HR20-700 with new HD DVR, 2) replace R15 with new HD receiver 3) replace H20 with new HD receiver 4) do Whole Home DVR upgrade. Cost is now $208.

Now I am down from 2 DVRs to 1, but everything is new and all HD (I barely use the R15 as I don't watch standard-def), however I am spending more money.

*Where do I stand with the new plan?* I'd rather keep my HR20-700 and just replace the H20 and R15, but not if it isn't going to work like these guys said. Under the original scenario I would have had 2 HD DVRs and 1 HD receiver.

If they replace the HR20-700 with an HR21,22,23... is there really any difference in the setup? *Is there any benefit to me getting rid of the HR20-700 in a SWiM/Whole Home DVR setup if the replacement is an HR21,22,23?*

Final question... *Do any of the techs actually know how to do this? or should I expect that I will have to figure it out myself on this forum and correct the installation after they leave?
*

Thanks to all. See 1st and 2nd order attached (2nd order is before $250 credit).


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## joed32 (Jul 27, 2006)

Hr20 700s are fine with SWM and DECA. You may need a new dish, they swapped mine out for no apparent reason last time they were here. I'm waiting til they know what they're doing before attempting an install.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

If you have an AT9 (sidecar) dish, they must replace it so they can use an SWiM compatible LNB assembly.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

dfunk said:


> I had a tech out today to set me up with Whole Home DVR... I ended up canceling the install and then calling customer retention. For reference, my current setup is:
> 1 HR20-700
> 1 R15-500
> 1 H20-100
> ...


I'd stick with the orignal order. 

It's cheaper
You end up with 2 HD DVRs and 1 HD, vs 1 HD DVR and 2 HD

My other comments are above in red.


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## dfunk (Oct 22, 2006)

Thank you for the detailed answers RobertE.

I suspected these two guys were clowns. I will have to get back on the phone with Customer Retention. I'll keep my HR20-700 and just replace the other two.

So how can I figure out exactly what dish I have? What does the AT-9 sidecar look like vs. a Slimline?

If I have a Slimline, is there a way to know if I have a Legacy LNB?

Thanks again to all.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

dfunk said:


> Thank you for the detailed answers RobertE.
> 
> I suspected these two guys were clowns. I will have to get back on the phone with Customer Retention. I'll keep my HR20-700 and just replace the other two.
> 
> ...


Here's a pick of a slimline with a 5lnb on it.










The AT-9 is more square and the LNB is two seperate parts. Since your dish was installed in 06, there is about a 0.1% chance at best it's a SWiM, if you have more than 1 line coming from the dish, it's not a SWiM. Most likely it's an AT-9, but may be one of the first slimlines.


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## dwcolvin (Oct 4, 2007)

*All* you're asking for is a 'normal' MRV upgrade with ICK. _*In no case*_ should you pay more than the $99 + $49 upgrade fee. This includes replacing dish/lnb if necessary for SWM, replacing all non-SWM-compatable receivers with equivalent SWM-compatable receivers (SD for SD, DVR for DVR), replacing non-MRV-compatable HD receivers (H20) with MRV-compatable ones, and providing any needed DECAs or power supplies/inserters or Band Stop Filters or MRV-compatable SWM splitters. In addition, they will replace any receiver that, for some reason, doesn't work in the new setup.

There is no reason why _any_ HR20 would need to be replaced, but the one that's the most troublesome (requires a unique DECA setup) is the HR20-100. It wouldn't be so bad, however, if your HR20-700 _was_ replaced (especially if it's with an HR24)... that's getting a little old, and hard drives don't last forever.


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## mobandit (Sep 4, 2007)

I can absolutely say that HR20-700's work on SWM and DECA. My installer/tech also wanted to replace my HR20-700 as he thought it was not compatible with SWM and DECA. I convinced him to try...it worked (and is workin) just fine.

The HR20-100 DVR's require a bit more effort to connect properly...but the -700's are fine.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

mobandit said:


> I can absolutely say that HR20-700's work on SWM and DECA. My installer/tech also wanted to replace my HR20-700 as he thought it was not compatible with SWM and DECA. I convinced him to try...it worked (and is workin) just fine.
> 
> The HR20-100 DVR's require a bit more effort to connect properly...but the -700's are fine.


Hope nobody tells my two HR20-700s that they shouldn't be working with MRV/DECA & SWiM. :eek2: :lol:


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

As an example of YMMV, when I had the Connected Home install done I had a HR20-700 connected via SWiM8 and ethernet for MRV which I had been using during the beta period. 

After everything was installed for Connected Home the HR20-700 failed the sat signal test, zero readings on all sats/TP's. Tech tried different DECA's and replaced the cable ends, still no go so they finally replaced it with a HR24, there was no charge since I have the protection plan, the HR24 worked right off the bat. 

So yes, the HR20-700 and the HR20-100 (with the special DECA connection with a PI) are supposed to work with Connected Home/DECA but in practice, maybe not. IMHO if DirecTV's tech is saying it won't work and needs to be replaced I'd make sure that at the least there is no charge for it since it's supposed to work and see if you can talk them into a HR24 as the replacement.


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## dwcolvin (Oct 4, 2007)

RAD said:


> As an example of YMMV, when I had the Connected Home install done I had a HR20-700 connected via SWiM8 and ethernet for MRV which I had been using during the beta period.
> 
> After everything was installed for Connected Home the HR20-700 failed the sat signal test, zero readings on all sats/TP's. Tech tried different DECA's and replaced the cable ends, still no go so they finally replaced it with a HR24, there was no charge since I have the protection plan, the HR24 worked right off the bat.


Sounds eerily familiar. When I had the SWiM-16 install done I had a HR20-700 connected via SWM LNB and ethernet for MRV which I had been using during the beta period.

After the SWiM-16 was installed the HR20-700 (first time it had been powered down in _years_... it's on a UPS) failed the sat signal test, zero readings on all sats/TP's. Tech tried various things (moving HR20-700 to different splitter, etc.), still no go so they finally replaced it with a HR24. I don't think there would have been a charge even if I didn't have the PP. The HR24 worked right off the bat.

But, there are _numerous_ reports of successful HR20 MRV/DECA installs.


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## dfunk (Oct 22, 2006)

I can see from the ground that I have a two piece LNB. If I remember correctly, the dish is oval (ie... not the AT9), but that was a few years ago and I can't see the dish itself (don't feel like going on roof). As I mentioned, Under "System Info & Test" in setup menu, it says I have "Slimline-5" next to "Dish Type". Could I have a slimeline dish with 2 piece LNB?

Some of the SWM/DECA diagrams I have seen still have 4 lines coming down from the dish? I thought SWM meant only one line down from the dish?

So are there two ways to do SWM?

1.) SWM compatible dish, with SWM built into the LNB, therefore only 1 line down from the dish, to a SWM splitter, then 1 line to each receiver.

vs.

2.) SWM compatible dish, with SWM compatible LNB but without SWM built-in, therefore 4 lines down to a SWM8 or SWM16, to SWM splitter(s), then 1 line to each receiver.

Am I on the right track?

Thanks


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## dwcolvin (Oct 4, 2007)

dfunk said:


> Some of the SWM/DECA diagrams I have seen still have 4 lines coming down from the dish? I thought SWM meant only one line down from the dish?
> 
> So are there two ways to do SWM?
> 
> ...


*Yes*, that's pretty much it, except in the 4 lines down case neither the dish nor the LNB are 'SWM compatible'... just garden variety non-SWM. The dish/LNB has to be able to see the 99/101/103 satellites, 110 and 119 are optoinal in most cases.


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## dfunk (Oct 22, 2006)

dwcolvin said:


> *Yes*, that's pretty much it, except in the 4 lines down case neither the dish nor the LNB are 'SWM compatible'... just garden variety non-SWM. The dish/LNB has to be able to see the 99/101/103 satellites, 110 and 119 are optoinal in most cases.


Cool.

I believe I have a 5-LNB that sees 99/101/103/110/119.

What if I have the AT9 Sidecar? Do you agree with RobertE that it would need replacing?


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## dwcolvin (Oct 4, 2007)

dfunk said:


> Cool.
> 
> I believe I have a 5-LNB that sees 99/101/103/110/119.
> 
> What if I have the AT9 Sidecar? Do you agree with RobertE that it would need replacing?


I agree that D* _will_ replace it, with a Slimline with (probably) a SWM-3 LNB. D* isn't installing SWM8 switches anymore, except in specific circumstances (e.g., multiple dishes).

If RobertE or VOS tells you something, you can count on it. :up:


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

dfunk said:


> Cool.
> 
> I believe I have a 5-LNB that sees 99/101/103/110/119.
> 
> What if I have the AT9 Sidecar? Do you agree with RobertE that it would need replacing?


As far as the receiver is concerned, the AT-9 and the slimline with a 5lnb are the same thing.

I'm going to say that you have an AT-9 which will be replaced with a slimline with a 3lnb SWiM.


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## dfunk (Oct 22, 2006)

Thank you dwcolvin and RobertE. I'm starting to get all of this straight and have an install diagram sketched out and ready for when the techs come back.

I need to call call Customer Retention again, have them drop the 2nd HD receiver and see if I can get the third order set correctly. Of course now that I look back at those two orders I attached to the original post, I noticed that the second order doesn't specifically mention the ICK like the 1st order did. I am guessing I need to make them change that too or it won't be on the work order.


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## Greg4050 (Jun 10, 2010)

dwcolvin said:


> *Yes*, that's pretty much it, except in the 4 lines down case neither the dish nor the LNB are 'SWM compatible'... just garden variety non-SWM. The dish/LNB has to be able to see the 99/101/103 satellites, 110 and 119 are optoinal in most cases.


This is interesting. My recently completed "swm" upgrade has 4 lines coming from the new dish.


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## dwcolvin (Oct 4, 2007)

Greg4050 said:


> This is interesting. My recently completed "swm" upgrade has 4 lines coming from the new dish.


In the case of a SWiM-16 (or SWM-8, but D* 'policy' is not to install those) there _will_ be 4 lines, connected to the SWiM switch. There's nothing SWiM about the dish/LNB, however.

Understand now?


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## mattgwyther (May 22, 2007)

Greg4050 said:


> This is interesting. My recently completed "swm" upgrade has 4 lines coming from the new dish.


How many tuners? (1 DVR= 2 Tuners)


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## Greg4050 (Jun 10, 2010)

dwcolvin said:


> In the case of a SWiM-16 (or SWM-8, but D* 'policy' is not to install those) there _will_ be 4 lines, connected to the SWiM switch. There's nothing SWiM about the dish/LNB, however.
> 
> Understand now?


Yup, that explains it. Thanks!


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

DirecTV AT-9 "Sidecar" or "Backboard" 1st-Gen HD dish. There were at least 4 manufacturers, and none of the parts, including the LNBs, are interchangable, and no replacement parts are available. These dishes are to be replaced whenever encountered by a DirecTV tech, meaning, whenever they encounter one at a customer's site while there for whatever else.









DirecTV AU-9 "Slimline" dish with SL5 LNB.









DirecTV AU-9 "Slimline" dish with SL3 LNB.

The Slimline dish is the standard HD dish for DirecTV. While the dish itself is proprietary to each manufacturer (and, yes, this is idiotic), the LNBs are interchangable and ship separately. All Slimline dishes can accept any of the following LNBs:

- SL3 (Slimline 3-LNB, legacy)
- SL3-S (Slimline 3-LNB, integrated SWM switch)
- SL5 (Slimline 5-LNB, legacy)
- SL5-S (Slimline 5-LNB, integrated SWM switch)


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## xandor (Nov 18, 2005)

dwcolvin said:


> Sounds eerily familiar. When I had the SWiM-16 install done I had a HR20-700 connected via SWM LNB and ethernet for MRV which I had been using during the beta period.
> 
> After the SWiM-16 was installed the HR20-700 (first time it had been powered down in _years_... it's on a UPS) failed the sat signal test, zero readings on all sats/TP's. Tech tried various things (moving HR20-700 to different splitter, etc.), still no go so they finally replaced it with a HR24. I don't think there would have been a charge even if I didn't have the PP. The HR24 worked right off the bat.
> 
> But, there are _numerous_ reports of successful HR20 MRV/DECA installs.


Question: What input was your HR20-700 on? I have to hook it only to Sat2, that is labeled FTM. When I had it connected to just sat 1, I got no signals via SWiM.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

xandor said:


> Question: What input was your HR20-700 on? I have to hook it only to Sat2, that is labeled FTM. When I had it connected to just sat 1, I got no signals via SWiM.


Check your labels again. SAT1 is the FTM port [which is the SWM port].


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## dwcolvin (Oct 4, 2007)

xandor said:


> Question: What input was your HR20-700 on? I have to hook it only to Sat2, that is labeled FTM. When I had it connected to just sat 1, I got no signals via SWiM.


It was connected to the same input that it had been when the dish had a SWM LNB (for years). The only change was SWM LNB -> Non-SWM LNB + SWiM-16, and power cycle. (OK, a 2-way splitter was _removed_ and its two outputs connected to the SWiM-16 outputs).

There was no reason why it shouldn't have worked. It just _didn't._


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## Newshawk (Sep 3, 2004)

dfunk said:


> 2.) They said my HR20-700 was not compatible for SWiM and Whole Home DVR and would also need replacement. Cost would be $199. This conflicts with everything I have read. After they made several calls, they said it was "supported", but that it would cause a lot of problems and they had never personally been able to get an HR20-700 to work for thi
> 
> *They said for the HR20-700 to function in this setup, it would have to be connected to the internet at all times. *
> 
> *They said a manual download had to be forced to the HR20-700 for it to work with SWiM and that this was very problematic.*


Almost all of the above is true... for the HR20-*100*. It does not need replacement, but you have to use the Sat 2 In port to power the DECA. There are two different methods of doing this. As for your HR20-700, it is a standard install.


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## dfunk (Oct 22, 2006)

I have a DirecTv tech out again today. He too says the HR20-700 doesn't work with Whole Home DVR. It looks to me that he is now wiring the HR20-700 the way that the HR20-100 is supposed to be wired. With both SAT1 and SAT2 connected with the splitter and b-band converter.

Can someone upload a picture or a diargram of how to wire the HR20-700 so I can show the DirecTv tech?


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

dfunk said:


> I have a DirecTv tech out again today. He too says the HR20-700 doesn't work with Whole Home DVR. It looks to me that he is now wiring the HR20-700 the way that the HR20-100 is supposed to be wired. With both SAT1 and SAT2 connected with the splitter and b-band converter.
> 
> Can someone upload a picture or a diargram of how to wire the HR20-700 so I can show the DirecTv tech?


No splitter and SAT2 required for a HR20-700 install, only the HR20-100 needs that. For the HR20-700 the DECA white pigtail connects to SAT1, the feed from the SWiM splitter connects to the open coax input on the DECA, and the blue ethernet cable connects to the ethernet jack on the HR20.

It could be that your HR20-700 jus won't work for Connected Home no matter what they do. My HR20-700 would not work with the DECA although all three LED's were green, but it wouldn't get any satellite signal, they had to replace the HR20 with another receiver (got a HR24).


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## armchair (Jul 27, 2009)

dfunk said:


> I have a DirecTv tech out again today. He too says the HR20-700 doesn't work with Whole Home DVR. It looks to me that he is now wiring the HR20-700 the way that the HR20-100 is supposed to be wired. With both SAT1 and SAT2 connected with the splitter and b-band converter.
> 
> Can someone upload a picture or a diargram of how to wire the HR20-700 so I can show the DirecTv tech?


see page # 5 here: http://hr20.dbstalk.com/docs/DECA First Look.pdf


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