# Slow is normal???



## diagoro (Aug 17, 2006)

I had a nice hour long talk with one Tech Support rep and her manager. One of the main gripes/issues is the extremely slow performance of the HR22-100 (and at times my 20-700) when navigating menus, making selections, etc. 

The tech rep stated over and over that it was a fauly remote (though I told her four times that the unit responds by moving the highlited line to the bottom when chosen, the menu doesn't adjust/scroll down for a long period after). 

It seems that every call to support gets one of three responses;
1. Whatever issue I'm having is also being shared by the rep and is 'normal'.
2. Resetting the machine will fix whatever problems I'm having.
3. "We've never heard of that before".

So to finish, both the rep and manager insisted that the extremely slow response is NORMAL. My response time will vary, but is usually from 7-10 seconds after each choice. There are rare times when it's at a normal/fast speed, but not often.

The slow response was the MAIN issue I had with the original hd receiver (10-250), a problem that wasn't addressed until the new Dtv recorders came out (and was basically pointless by than).

I just can't believe that this response speed is normal and am tired of being told it is, that a reboot/re-format will fix it. 

Is it possible this is due to inadequate processing power/memory/ram?


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

Yes, slow GUI performance is something that appears to be 'normal' at this time. However the rumor mill says that DirecTV has it on their list of things to improve on, just don't know when.

One thing that might help, at least why in the guide is to go to menu/setup/system setup/display and set Scrolling Effects to OFF to see if that helps at bit.


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

The HR22-100 is in fact, very slow, when scrolling from guide channel to guide channel. Its performance is about the worst of any of the Directv DVRs. One reason is instead of a separate processor and video decoder chip found in the HR20, the HR22 (and 21 and 23), use a combo chip to save manufacturing costs. The combined chip is just not as fast as the separate chips.

If your HR22 has less than 30% free space available on the drive, it will also slow down considerably. Explanding your space to 1TB or more with an eSATA drive will improve performance by giving you lots more space before reaching that magic 30% free point.

And add to your list of 'most used' excuses: "Thats a known issue that we cannot fix until our new satellite is launched".


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## TSR (Feb 7, 2009)

I would have to agree that the processor and memory is not sufficient, but that DTV used it as a way
to save money production-wise. That's the only possiblity I can think.

Is it a common problem with everybody else that has DTV?


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

TSR said:


> I would have to agree that the processor and memory is not sufficient, but that DTV used it as a way
> to save money production-wise. That's the only possiblity I can think.
> 
> Is it a common problem with everybody else that has DTV?


How much space is available? Once you get close to the 30% Available mark, the HRs tend to bog down. I know that this happens for sure on an HR with an eSATA attached and seem to remember having the same problems with an internal that I filled up to see if it would happen there too. Not positive about that, tho.

My HR22-100 (swore I'd never have a 100 in the house but I bought a TV and needed an HR and the only new ones I could find were 22s.) is not noticeably slower than my other 21s. My four 20-700s are a bit faster, but I've learned to live with all of them as long as they record and playback properly. And all nine do.

Rich


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

The slowness of my HR21-700 will be the reason I switch at the end of my contract. Well that and the skip to end trickplay issue. There is no valid reason for these now 3 year old designs to be suffering from this slowness.

It is either poorly designed hardware or poor programming, or a combo of the two and frankly it doesn't matter to me which is the issue. But I have until next February to see if D* gets it fixed. If they do, then there will not be any question of switching. If they don't, I'll have to do some thinking as right now E* doesn't have my locals in HD and they are still using 129 which is an issue in my area.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

lparsons21 said:


> The slowness of my HR21-700 will be the reason I switch at the end of my contract. Well that and the skip to end trickplay issue. There is no valid reason for these now 3 year old designs to be suffering from this slowness.
> 
> It is either poorly designed hardware or poor programming, or a combo of the two and frankly it doesn't matter to me which is the issue. But I have until next February to see if D* gets it fixed. If they do, then there will not be any question of switching. If they don't, I'll have to do some thinking as right now E* doesn't have my locals in HD and they are still using 129 which is an issue in my area.


At least you have a viable choice. Dish doesn't have the Yes Network and that leaves me out in the cold with no place to go. Don't even consider Cablevision worth considering. Here I sit in the most heavily populated part of the country and I have three choices, two of which I won't even consider.

FIOS is coming soon tho. Again not a viable choice. Verizon might have the best cellular network in the country, but their service and the knowledge that their salespeople and CSRs have is pitiful. And oddly, their accounting department stinks too. Usually, no matter how bad a company is, the accounting department manages to bill correctly. Verizon kept sending me statements saying I had over $150 in credits on an account that didn't exist. Every month until I called them up and told them to close the account and send me the money. They batted that back and forth for two more months and finally decided they didn't owe me anything (which is what I told them in the first place).

Imagine what service and accounting you get with FIOS. They've misrepresented the number of HD channels they get so many times it has become a joke on the NYC radio stations. Phil Swanni has attacked them many times for this.

Rich


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

rich584 said:


> At least you have a viable choice. Dish doesn't have the Yes Network and that leaves me out in the cold with no place to go. Don't even consider Cablevision worth considering. Here I sit in the most heavily populated part of the country and I have three choices, two of which I won't even consider.
> 
> Rich


I live in the boondocks and don't have lots of choices. It is either a satellite service or Mediacom. Mediacom isn't a real choice if you like HD 'cause they still have very few HD channels. In fact, the HD channels they have now are the same ones they've had for a few years, but they keep saying 'more coming' - I think it is now 2 years and counting on the 'more'! 

For me, either sat service could be fine, but I want the locals in HD, which is Direct only right now, and I wouldn't want the 129 bird unless they've done something to improve that in the last year.

For me with Dish, the 129 would die whenever it thought about a cloud passing by...


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## Mark L (Oct 23, 2006)

Ughhh, the more and more I search "HR21 slow", the more threads pop up :nono2:

What is the deal!

Obviously DirecTV knows the HR21, HR22, and HR23 boxes are crap, yet they don't do anything about it!

I have 8 boxes in my house (listed in sig), and the only ones that work are the HR20, the H21, the H20, and the 2 old Hughes DirecTivos. I have an HR21-100 in my living room, and I swear, it's seriously getting to the point I want to smash the thing with a hammer! What is the deal with the slow response? I'll push 206 and I have to wait 4 seconds for the box to respond!

I do not get it! It never has been this bad. My HR20-700 in my bedroom is like night and day compared to the HR21-100 in the living room. My HR20 is responsive and faster.

I feel like we're back to the point when the HR20s first hit the market and people hated them more than anything. It should not be like this! Especially when Premiere package holders are paying $110 a month! My bill is upwards of $160 and I can't even get a box that works!

Here's a note to the software department: FIX THE ISSUES!!!!!!!!

I hope a DTV CSR sees this thread, cause I sure am sick of calling in and hearing the same jibber jabber read off a paper sheet. 

If this continues, I will go and buy another HR20 off ebay, and dump this POS HR21-100.


Enough venting for me.


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## bdcottle (Mar 28, 2008)

Wow, Yours is fast compared to mine. when i punch in a channel 6 sec is average, sometimes as long as 10 sec to get a picture of the new channel.


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## njblackberry (Dec 29, 2007)

Gotta chime in that I have the same issues. The HR20-700 is responsive, but the HR21-700 is much, much slower. I guess that's "normal".


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## roadrunner1782 (Sep 28, 2008)

My HR22-100 is slow as well, and I sincerely hope D* is working to fix it. I never owned a DVR until I got my HR22 and I just assumed that since it was a DVR it was supposed to be alittle slower, until I got my R16-300! The R16 is so much faster I instantly became mad with the HR22.


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## Juppers (Oct 26, 2006)

It is pathetic these speed issues have persisted for so long, and continue to get worse. I know I have been complaining about it for over a year. Instead of fixing it, they have been adding active content, media share, and putting ads in the guide which make it even slower.


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## roadrunner1782 (Sep 28, 2008)

Juppers I agree with you. I feel that D* is more concerned with adding new features than they are with the slow response time of some of their DVR's.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

I am sure Directv is working on speeding up the HR21's.. Just look at the latest NR for the HR20's.. They have been sped up considerably.. SO they know what they need to do....


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## diagoro (Aug 17, 2006)

Sorry for the late response, thought I had addressed it in my original post. 

My unit has never had less than 75% free space, no reason why that should be an issue....

But considering the processor and software design. Perhaps there are too many hardware limits in place, perhaps we're allready maxed out speed wise!!!!!

As always, cut costs and than raise rates. Just look where that got Microsoft with their 360.....


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## bearcat250 (Feb 19, 2004)

I have two HR21-100 units. One is slooooooow and the other works fine. Rebooted twice, seemed to speed up for a while but eventually back to sloooooow. I have posted a couple of times and am responding again hoping someone from D is lurking. It's very annoying and should be addressed.


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## mjbvideo (Jan 15, 2006)

Yup - I have the same unit. Everyone in my family has fantasies like killing the box with a sledge hammer. I know it is software related because it worked like a champ last fall after one of their software releases. Now it's worse then when we first got the unit back in July 2008. Shouldn't let this stupid box to get to me but it just builds up to high levels of frustration. Venting here helps a little bit though!


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## Marlin Guy (Apr 8, 2009)

I've gotten used to the slowness of the HR20-700 now.
I use the wait times to read books and magazines or go for a snack.

Normal - Yes.
Acceptable - Well, that's up to you, the customer.


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## vegasnv (Jul 5, 2008)

My HR21-100 is unbelievably slow. 

I have one HR21 and several SD DTivo units including one that is connected to my HDTV along with the HR21. My family HATES the HR21 and use the SD DTivo unit on the HDTV instead of watching shows in HD from the HR21. 

If not for the old SD DTivo's (which work great and my family loves) I would be saying goodbye to DTV after 11 years.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

vegasnv said:


> My family HATES the HR21 and use the SD DTivo unit on the HDTV instead of watching shows in HD from the HR21.


OK, got to ask, do folks spend more time playing with the HR2X's GUI or actually watching programming?

I don't know about others but I actually spend more time watching programs and as far as I can tell the HR2X's aren't slowing down the programs, they are shown at normal speed, no slowdown at all.

Yes, the GUI is slow but to the point that I'd stop using it completly and watch HD programing on a SD receiver, nope.


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## vegasnv (Jul 5, 2008)

RAD said:


> OK, got to ask, do folks spend more time playing with the HR2X's GUI or actually watching programming?


I spend more time playing with the HR21 GUI than I should need to. Often 7-8 seconds for the Play List to come up. Even more time to select a show and delete it. At times long delays for 30 second skip to kick in.

If I'm watching a movie and not using the GUI things are fine, but when I'm watching a recorded sporting event where I use the GUI a lot it gets pretty frustrating. Maybe it wouldn't bother me as much if I wasn't used to the DTivo units that actually respond quickly to a remote command.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

RAD said:


> OK, got to ask, do folks spend more time playing with the HR2X's GUI or actually watching programming?
> 
> I don't know about others but I actually spend more time watching programs and as far as I can tell the HR2X's aren't slowing down the programs, they are shown at normal speed, no slowdown at all.
> 
> Yes, the GUI is slow but to the point that I'd stop using it completly and watch HD programing on a SD receiver, nope.


Been wanting to say something about this thread. Glad I'm not alone. Why do you suppose that all these people are reporting extremely slow HRs?

Consider this: I have nine HRs, four 20-700s, three 21-700s, one 21-200 and one 22-100 (had to buy it, I needed an HR, another story), and none of them are what I would call annoyingly slow. None of them. OK, the 20-700s are a tad quicker, but the rest of them aren't very much slower.

Kinda leads me to wonder if something in their "system" is awry. By "system", I mean from the dish to the HR. Something must be wrong.

This takes me back to Earl's statement that he'd like to put some of the complainer's HRs on his "system" and see if they'd have the same problems. Too bad that's not possible, I'd be willing to take some of these terribly slow HRs or any other HRs that are having problems that reek of "system" problems and put them on my "system" and see what happens. Betcha the great majority of the problems wouldn't show up.

Rich


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## vegasnv (Jul 5, 2008)

rich584 said:


> Kinda leads me to wonder if something in their "system" is awry. By "system", I mean from the dish to the HR. Something must be wrong.


If that's the case, it looks like a lot of people have something "awry" in their systems. What would you recommend they do?


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## Gunnyman (Jul 25, 2003)

The problem with slowness that I am experiencing happens with going from the List to watching a show, this sometimes takes 15 seconds or more. Also, when hitting the 30 second slip button, sometimes I get no gui at all. Subsequent presses of the slip button bring up the gui, but the 1st slip doesn't register on the screen. This is my 2nd HR21-100 and I have to reboot it every couple of days to make the problem go away. Very annoying.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

vegasnv said:


> If that's the case, it looks like a lot of people have something "awry" in their systems. What would you recommend they do?


Thanx for noticing the "word". Hoped somebody would.

What would I recommend? So many things, but it's really hard to speculate on what in particular might be wrong with a particular "system".

For one, if you have another HR and it works perfectly (well, you know) and quickly, put it on the same satellite feeds that the slow HR is on and give it a day and see if you get a slow down. If you don't, you have a problem with the original HR. That's simple and easy, no? I keep reading posts where people compare one HR to another, but I don't see this simple step being taken. If you don't get a slowdown, the original HR has a problem and you've isolated it. Now get a replacement.

"Snug" up ALL your fittings with a 7/16 open end wrench. "Finger tight" is not enough. Get the fitting "finger tight" and then take the wrench and gently tighten the fitting. You'll find that your "finger tight" fitting still has a little bit to go to be truly tight. And when I say "all", I mean every single fitting from the dish down to your HRs and on the BBCs and the HRs.

Make sure that you are using "compression fittings" on all your connections. The "crimped" fittings are liable to cause a problem. Don't use "slip on" fittings anywhere.

Make sure all your cabling is RG6 and not some lesser cable such as R59.

You might want to get a dish alignment. You should have support legs on your dish. They attach to the upright pipe that the dish is mounted on and give that pipe the rigid support it needs. If you get a dish alignment, have all your LNBs checked.

Enough for now. The above are all problems that I've had. Those are not all the problems I've had, but I think they were the easiest to correct.

Rich


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## jstuckemeyer (Jan 27, 2008)

I have 4 DVRs -- all 21 and 22s. I would call their level of "slowness" medium. Its not unbearable, but it is definately annoying. Seems like a junior league problem. I have lots of electronics and I don't have to wait for my PS3, XBOX, Roku etc to register a remote key click. For all the good things DirecTV accomplishes, they sully their reputation by ignoring little annoying things that should be easily fixed.

My other gripe is their CS. The people are nice, but mostly incompetent. Everytime I call with a gripe I know its going to take an hour to go through the BS and eventually get a supervisor on the line. Its almost always turns out to my satisfaction, but at the cost of another hour or two that I'll never get back.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Gunnyman said:


> The problem with slowness that I am experiencing happens with going from the List to watching a show, this sometimes takes 15 seconds or more. Also, when hitting the 30 second slip button, sometimes I get no gui at all. Subsequent presses of the slip button bring up the gui, but the 1st slip doesn't register on the screen. This is my 2nd HR21-100 and I have to reboot it every couple of days to make the problem go away. Very annoying.


Shouldn't happen. Personally, I don't like the 100 HRs at all. I do have one 22-100 and it does work properly, but I was sort of forced to buy it. In your case, I gather you only have the one HR? If that's the case, try a replacement. Might work or you could go to post #26 on this thread and try the steps I have suggested in that post.

Rich


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

TSR said:


> I would have to agree that the processor and memory is not sufficient, but that DTV used it as a way to save money production-wise.


There's a difference in CPU/DECODER between the HR20's and all the other boxes (HR21/22/23/R22), *but all the others apparently use the same *(less-expensive)* chips*.

As a result, I have to believe the HR22 can at some point be tweaked for better performance, hopefully comparable to the R22-200, which in my latest testing is about 33% faster on 20 GUIDE "page downs" than the HR22-100. My guess is engineering is waiting to performance tune it until some other software change occurs first. Perhaps MRV.

Just my .02. /steve


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

jstuckemeyer said:


> I have 4 DVRs -- all 21 and 22s. I would call their level of "slowness" medium. Its not unbearable, but it is definately annoying. Seems like a junior league problem. I have lots of electronics and I don't have to wait for my PS3, XBOX, Roku etc to register a remote key click. For all the good things DirecTV accomplishes, they sully their reputation by ignoring little annoying things that should be easily fixed.
> 
> My other gripe is their CS. The people are nice, but mostly incompetent. Everytime I call with a gripe I know its going to take an hour to go through the BS and eventually get a supervisor on the line. Its almost always turns out to my satisfaction, but at the cost of another hour or two that I'll never get back.


You might as well get used to the CSRs. They haven't changed much (perhaps gotten worse) in the last seven years. If you have patience and search for similar issues on this forum, you might be able to solve the problems yourself. Or you might start a thread yourself. That's worked for me several times.

Rich


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## jstuckemeyer (Jan 27, 2008)

rich584 said:


> You might as well get used to the CSRs. They haven't changed much (perhaps gotten worse) in the last seven years. If you have patience and search for similar issues on this forum, you might be able to solve the problems yourself. Or you might start a thread yourself. That's worked for me several times.
> 
> Rich


I hear you. I come here first and always always find the answers to technical questions. Can we add billing service to DBS?


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

jstuckemeyer said:


> I hear you. I come here first and always always find the answers to technical questions. Can we add billing service to DBS?


D* knows full well that their CSRs are, how to put this gently? Not well trained and apparently the training they do receive has little to do with customer service. Better to come here and get the answer before you call D*, just as you are better off knowing what is wrong with your car before you take it to a dealer. With a car, unfortunately, there is no DBSTalk. Or is there? I've never looked.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Steve said:


> There's a difference in CPU/DECODER between the HR20's and all the other boxes (HR21/22/23/R22), *but all the others apparently use the same *(less-expensive)* chips*.
> 
> As a result, I have to believe the HR22 can at some point be tweaked for better performance, hopefully comparable to the R22-200, which in my latest testing is about 33% faster on 20 GUIDE "page downs" than the HR22-100. My guess is engineering is waiting to performance tune it until some other software change occurs first. Perhaps MRV.
> 
> Just my .02. /steve


Just gonna get off topic for a second. I decided to name my poor wounded 21-700 "Fubar". Seemed to fit nicely and I actually played for a team named "Fubar" for a few years, even won a league championship and we did it with a team full of PHDs.

Rich


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## calidelphia (Feb 17, 2007)

rich584 said:


> Been wanting to say something about this thread. Glad I'm not alone. Why do you suppose that all these people are reporting extremely slow HRs?
> 
> Consider this: I have nine HRs, four 20-700s, three 21-700s, one 21-200 and one 22-100 (had to buy it, I needed an HR, another story), and none of them are what I would call annoyingly slow. None of them. OK, the 20-700s are a tad quicker, but the rest of them aren't very much slower.
> 
> ...


C'mon Rich... How many threads have you been involved in that state brutally slow HR21, 22, 23 GUI, trickplay, IR response, etc... I guess we're all imagining this.

So you have 9 DVRs. How often can you possibly monitor all 9 of them? Do you hire day laborers from Home Depot to do this?

I have 1 HR21-100(only DirecTV STB in my house) that gets 8 hours of use per day between myself and my fiancee and can guarantee nothing, absolutely nothing, is AWRY in my system. Same signal strengths as my now deceased 20-700, same Harmony 880 that doesn't produce lag or keybounce on any other component in my system, same cables, same blah blah blah...

I'm sorry if I'm coming off like a jagoff, but pompous posts like this aren't helping anyone with an honest to GOD problem that can't be written off as a system gone AWRY.


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## Halo (Jan 13, 2006)

The hardware is fine and is extremely fast as compared to past generations of hardware. I've worked for both sides (hardware asic design/ firmware). Put a faster BCM cpu in these and they might get a little faster but a weak programmer will just find ways to waste more clock cycles.

The HR2X should fly. They are slow because of the poorly coded firmware running on them.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

calidelphia said:


> C'mon Rich... How many threads have you been involved in that state brutally slow HR21, 22, 23 GUI, trickplay, IR response, etc... I guess we're all imagining this.


No, I don't think you're imagining anything. Nor do I think you are in the majority of HR users.



> So you have 9 DVRs.


Now, why would that annoy you?



> How often can you possibly monitor all 9 of them?


My wife has one she uses every day, no complaints. My son has one he uses every day, no complaints. I have two that I use every day, no problems. I have one 20-700 that I only use for Yankees games and I do watch every game, not every day, but every game, no problems.

I have four that I use for backing up each other for recordings that my wife and I watch together. Each has a large eSATA and I do try not to restrict my viewing to one of those HRs, but to watch a different one of the four each night. No complaints, no slowdowns that are annoying in the least, certainly not "brutally" slow.



> I have 1 HR21-100(only DirecTV STB in my house) that gets 8 hours of use per day between myself and my fiancee and can guarantee nothing, absolutely nothing, is AWRY in my system. Same signal strengths as my now deceased 20-700, same Harmony 880 that doesn't produce lag or keybounce on any other component in my system, same cables, same blah blah blah...


So, do you have a problem?



> I'm sorry if I'm coming off like a jagoff, but pompous posts like this aren't helping anyone with an honest to GOD problem that can't be written off as a system gone AWRY.


I didn't mean to sound "pompous". If no one posts positively, how are people to know that their "honest to GOD" problem is a problem and not common to all HRs? Thru your whole rant, you never mentioned a problem. Do you have one? All I see is "lag" and "key bounce", I guess that's your problem. I don't have those problems and it doesn't matter how many HRs I have.

Did you have the same problems with your 20-700? If you didn't, replace the 100. If you did, something else is awry with your system. I noted that you did take special notice of my use of the word "awry". Did you have to look it up? I looked up "jagoff", and you did use the word correctly.

Rich


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## calidelphia (Feb 17, 2007)

Halo said:


> The hardware is fine and is extremely fast as compared to past generations of hardware. I've worked for both sides (hardware asic design/ firmware). Put a faster BCM cpu in these and they might get a little faster but a weak programmer will just find ways to waste more clock cycles.
> 
> The HR2X should fly. They are slow because of the poorly coded firmware running on them.


I hope you're right, but doubt it.

This doesn't explain why a friend with a 20-700 has no issues with the same firmware as my 21-100.


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## Tallgntlmn (Jun 8, 2007)

I notice slowness too. I mean extreme. HR22-100 here. I had to hit guide 4 times this morning before the dadgum guide popped up. I typed in 206-enter a few times and went to 2 then got 06 is not a channel and then got 62 is not a channel. I mean geeze, I push 206-enter and I want ESP-friggin-N, not have to type it 4 times before ESPN tunes in. I then tried to go to 805, same darn thing. Oh yeah, don't let me forget when I am sitting on a local and then hit 360-enter and have to wait a good 4 seconds before I see a picture on 360. Before someone starts some silly political argument, it isn't just 360 I could go from 805 to 269 right now and see the same thing. 

The slowness is blatant to me. I come from a SD-DVR40 to this thing. The old TiVo software was so much faster than this. I could hit guide and see the guide. Type 206 and watch SportsCenter, not continue to try to get to SportsCenter. Yeah, it was slow going to the list and the setup options, but everyday use was so much more robust. 

I just wish D* would do something about this slowness. I just want it to be like my old D-TiVo.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Halo said:


> The hardware is fine and is extremely fast as compared to past generations of hardware. I've worked for both sides (hardware asic design/ firmware). Put a faster BCM cpu in these and they might get a little faster but a weak programmer will just find ways to waste more clock cycles.
> 
> The HR2X should fly. They are slow because of the poorly coded firmware running on them.


The only other experience I have is with SD TiVos and Ultimate TV DVRs and I did notice, at first, that the HRs were slower, but I attributed that to the Hi Def.

Rich


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## bdcottle (Mar 28, 2008)

rich584 said:


> The only other experience I have is with SD TiVos and Ultimate TV DVRs and I did notice, at first, that the HRs were slower, but I attributed that to the Hi Def.
> 
> Rich


Sorry Rich, but i have had a dishnetwork VIP 622 that was just as fast as my old SD Tivo. The HR series is just brutally slow.


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## Gunnyman (Jul 25, 2003)

rich584 said:


> Shouldn't happen. Personally, I don't like the 100 HRs at all. I do have one 22-100 and it does work properly, but I was sort of forced to buy it. In your case, I gather you only have the one HR? If that's the case, try a replacement. Might work or you could go to post #26 on this thread and try the steps I have suggested in that post.
> 
> Rich


This is my 2nd HR22-100. The first one had this problem as well as horrible problems with pixelization and lock ups.
I'm just hanging on until the Tivo based solution comes out. I have the protection plan so at least when these dvr's go fracked up, I can get another one.


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## vurbano (May 15, 2004)

RAD said:


> Yes, slow GUI performance is something that appears to be 'normal' at this time. However the rumor mill says that DirecTV has it on their list of things to improve on, just don't know when.
> 
> One thing that might help, at least why in the guide is to go to menu/setup/system setup/display and set Scrolling Effects to OFF to see if that helps at bit.


ALmost every CE says improved GUI performance yet it is still slow. If that were true this thing would be flying. Frankly I do not think it will ever get "fast". How many years has the HR series been under beta improvements?


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

bdcottle said:


> Sorry Rich, but i have had a dishnetwork VIP 622 that was just as fast as my old SD Tivo. The HR series is just brutally slow.


Amen, brother. But I could live with the slowness if it wasn't also coupled with the remote response issues.


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## mjbvideo (Jan 15, 2006)

Halo said:


> The HR2X should fly. They are slow because of the poorly coded firmware running on them.


YES!! I've been thinking this all along!! Seriously, they need to upgrade their code programmers - I mean, clean house! Stop using the teenagers from the local high school.


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## DavidR (Apr 23, 2006)

rich584 said:


> ..."Snug" up ALL your fittings with a 7/16 open end wrench. "Finger tight" is not enough. Get the fitting "finger tight" and then take the wrench and gently tighten the fitting. You'll find that your "finger tight" fitting still has a little bit to go to be truly tight. And when I say "all", I mean every single fitting from the dish down to your HRs and on the BBCs and the HRs.
> 
> Make sure that you are using "compression fittings" on all your connections. The "crimped" fittings are liable to cause a problem. Don't use "slip on" fittings anywhere.
> 
> ...


These are all good suggestions for various types of problems that can occur with these units, especially if the problem is something to do with picture quality.

Unfortunately, the particular problem being reported here is the extremely poor response time of menus and lists in the GUI in response to commands from the remote. This has absolutely nothing to do with the signal path between the satellite, dish, and the HR2x. None of these suggestions will have any effect on the response time problem.

...David


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Gunnyman said:


> This is my 2nd HR22-100. The first one had this problem as well as horrible problems with pixelization and lock ups.
> I'm just hanging on until the Tivo based solution comes out. I have the protection plan so at least when these dvr's go fracked up, I can get another one.


The one I have is my first new 100. I wouldn't have purchased it if I hadn't bought a new TV and needed an HR for it. I looked all over the place and all I could find was 22s. My son was shocked when I brought it home. I fully expected to hook it up, have it fail and get a replacement for it. I wouldn't even let the CSR activate it until I had checked out what I could without activation.

Shockingly, it works. And works well. I've been bashing the whole 100 series of HRs for years and I am not going to let one 22 change my mind about the 100s. I've only had it for a month or two and haven't hooked up an eSATA to it. But so far, absolutely no problems. I can't believe it myself.

In spite of my 22, let me repeat my opinion of the 100s: In my opinion, based on the many 100s I have received as replacements, they are, by far, the worst of the HRs. If you push the knowledgeable CSRs at the Protection Plan (there are some knowledgeable people at the PP call centers, one of the many benefits of the PP), they will admit that the 100s give them the most trouble. If you push the very knowledgeable (for D* folks) Case Management Group people, they will admit that the 100s are the most troublesome.

Read the posts on various threads and you have to get the impression that people have more problems with 100s than with 700s or 200s.

Why do you suppose you can't get a 23-700 in ANY retail store in Central NJ? Could it be that the 22s are being dumped and that dump must be complete before the 23s are released to retailers?

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

vurbano said:


> ALmost every CE says improved GUI performance yet it is still slow. If that were true this thing would be flying. Frankly I do not think it will ever get "fast". How many years has the HR series been under beta improvements?


At least since 2006. Read the "First Looks" on each new HR and you see that they are more "robust" (what the hell does that mean?) and with the new processors mentioned prominently in those "First Looks", you get the impression that they are gonna be faster. Faster than what? Certainly, not one of the 21, 22 or 23s (never had one, just going on what I've read) when compared to the 20-700.

Here's some definitions of "robust" from a Google search using "define: robust".

# sturdy and strong in form, constitution, or construction; "a robust body"; "a robust perennial"
# full-bodied: marked by richness and fullness of flavor; "a rich ruby port"; "full-bodied wines"; "a robust claret"; "the robust flavor of fresh-brewed coffee"
# strong enough to withstand or overcome intellectual challenges or adversity; "the experiment yielded robust results"; "a robust faith"
# rough and crude; "a robust tale"

Here's a link to that search:

http://www.google.com/search?client...l=s&hl=en&q=define:+robust&btnG=Google+Search

Robust doesn't seem to apply to electronic devices. Or the speed of those devices.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

mjbvideo said:


> YES!! I've been thinking this all along!! Seriously, they need to upgrade their code programmers - I mean, clean house! Stop using the teenagers from the local high school.


We've said the same thing time and time again. Falls on deaf ears.

Think of this: There is a waiting list for season tickets for Jets games. I realize this is a strange analogy, but read on. I've been a Jets fan since they were Titans. Since they became the Jets and won that Super Bowl in '69, what have they done? Every year it's the same thing. Lose, lose, lose. And they manage to lose in ways that approach unbelievable. Yet they fill that stadium up every Sunday that they play at home. Do you think if nobody showed up for those games, they might suddenly have an epiphany and field a team that wins? And hire a coach that can coach? Of course they would. But as long as they fill that stadium, it's just business as usual, lose, lose, lose.

Now extend that analogy to D*. If people started to drop their subscriptions because the HRs aren't satisfactory, what would happen? Think they'd come out with a new HR that would be quick and reliable? I do. See any news about D* losing subscribers? As long as people keep subscribing, it will be business as usual. And that's not a bad business plan. The Jets sure aren't losing any money using the same business plan.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

DavidR said:


> These are all good suggestions for various types of problems that can occur with these units, especially if the problem is something to do with picture quality.
> 
> Unfortunately, the particular problem being reported here is the extremely poor response time of menus and lists in the GUI in response to commands from the remote. This has absolutely nothing to do with the signal path between the satellite, dish, and the HR2x. None of these suggestions will have any effect on the response time problem.
> 
> ...David


OK, that's what I was looking for, an answer such as yours. I'm not a geek. I missed that boat, unfortunately. I don't really understand what affects what. But I do understand how to use these things. And I know how to mechanically install the system that feeds the HRs.

You flatly state: "None of these suggestions will have any effect on the response time problem." I don't have "response time problems". One of the posters on this thread called me "pompous" for mentioning that none of my nine HRs suffered from "response time problems". And for suggesting the mechanical parts of the system might be the problem.

If none of those suggestions will have any effect on the operation of the HRs, why don't I have those problems? After going thru all the problems I have had since I got my first HRs in the fall of '06, and I've had so many problems I couldn't begin to list them or even remember all of them. Has my luck suddenly changed? Kinda doubt that. You seem like a rational person, can you give me a rational answer that explains why I've suddenly become a non-complainer about issues such as these?

I could have just ignored this thread, but I'm truly curious. Why not me? The only thing I've done differently from most folks is have my cabling and dish replaced. That ended last April and I've had very few problems since. All those suggestions I made were based on what we did with my "system", the feed to the HRs. How else to explain my lack of problems?

Rich


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## peano (Feb 1, 2004)

> Originally Posted by bdcottle View Post
> Sorry Rich, but i have had a dishnetwork VIP 622 that was just as fast as my old SD Tivo. The HR series is just brutally slow.





lparsons21 said:


> Amen, brother. But I could live with the slowness if it wasn't also coupled with the remote response issues.


Double Amen. Dish PVRs respond instantly. I can't believe Directv STILL hasn't fixed this.


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## antimatter (Feb 10, 2008)

My HR21 is also ridiculously slow as well. Completely unresponsive at time. Then it decides to perform all the commands at once. I don't understand why it's so hard for DirecTV to get this right. The box has one and only one job to do and it can't do this correctly?

I'd gladly pay more for better hardware if that was the problem. But I feel like this is terribly written software which DTV has completely ignored while they add more features I never use.


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## diagoro (Aug 17, 2006)

I'd hold off on the thought of 'paying more for a faster machine' in case eyes are watching. I for one refuse to pay more for a 'basic function'!

I've noticed that my 20-700 received the Ox2f4 update and seems to be running extremely fast, no idea why the 22-100 doesn't have it....it's too bad if this new release actually addresses the problem.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

diagoro said:


> I'd hold off on the thought of 'paying more for a faster machine' in case eyes are watching. I for one refuse to pay more for a 'basic function'!
> 
> I've noticed that my 20-700 received the Ox2f4 update and seems to be running extremely fast, no idea why the 22-100 doesn't have it....it's too bad if this new release actually addresses the problem.


The HR21/22's will be up to the HR20's speed, at some point.. but it will be a little while... I am hoping that the next NR that is sent out will carry this improvement over, I have 2 HR21's, and they annoy the heck out of me in comparison to my HR20's...


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## arbywon (Jun 14, 2008)

My HR21 seemed to slow down significantly after an update that occurred around December. Prior to this, it bothered me that selecting Delete after finishing a recording would take long enough that I wondered if I actually forgot to hit the OK or my Harmony screwed up. I was wishing for my old Tivo's "Please wait..." acknowledgment. After the update, the slow delete is a small part of my complaints. When I looked here at the time, I really didn't find much corroboration. This is the first time I have checked since and am not surprised at the number of complaints and disappointed at the lack of response from our favorite satellite service vendor.

I've been doing system level programming for 40+ years (now retired). I suspect the problem is inattention by the programming staff on performance analysis and tuning. I have been hoping that they have been working on it and the next update will help. I'm still hoping but not going to hold my breath.


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## antimatter (Feb 10, 2008)

diagoro said:


> I'd hold off on the thought of 'paying more for a faster machine' in case eyes are watching. I for one refuse to pay more for a 'basic function'!
> 
> I've noticed that my 20-700 received the Ox2f4 update and seems to be running extremely fast, no idea why the 22-100 doesn't have it....it's too bad if this new release actually addresses the problem.


Regarding my "pay more for a faster machine" comment...

I meant this only in the case that hardware is truly the limitation(which I highly doubt it is). I completely agree with you when it comes to refusing to pay more for this basic function when the hardware in the unit is sufficient enough to run things smoothly.


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## Tallgntlmn (Jun 8, 2007)

antimatter said:


> I'd gladly pay more for better hardware if that was the problem. But I feel like this is terribly written software which DTV has completely ignored while they add more features I never use.


Me too, but in my case, I will pay for the TiVo based unit that is under development. It seems to me this has to be a software issue. Lag when responding to the remote is probably not a hardware issue unless it is a lack of RAM issue.


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## gquiring (Jan 8, 2006)

I had a HR20-100 until the tuner 2 issue killed me. It was fast. D* swapped it for a HR22-100 which solved the tuner 2 issue but gave me one slow DVR. I have to wait very carefully when I delete something because it's so slow you don't know where the cursor will land. They have been saying for months now it's on their list to fix but nothing has improved it.


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## antimatter (Feb 10, 2008)

Tallgntlmn said:


> Me too, but in my case, I will pay for the TiVo based unit that is under development. It seems to me this has to be a software issue. Lag when responding to the remote is probably not a hardware issue unless it is a lack of RAM issue.


Do you have link to any more information on this TiVo based unit?


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## Tallgntlmn (Jun 8, 2007)

antimatter said:


> Do you have link to any more information on this TiVo based unit?


Not really other than the 116+ page thread in the general forum. http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=138443


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Your current units will be much much faster by the time the tivo comes out...


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

inkahauts said:


> Your current units will be much much faster by the time the tivo comes out...


We can only hope. But frankly the AM21's had some issues since it came out and we're also waiting on those to be fixed. It's great that DirecTV's spending the money and time adding all the nice feature that they have to the STB's but it would also be nice if they'd spend a CE cycle to getting what they have working up to customers expectations.


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## Tallgntlmn (Jun 8, 2007)

RAD said:


> but it would also be nice if they'd spend a CE cycle to getting what they have working up to customers expectations.


Yeah, I could care less about MRV. I just want to have the box respond when I press a button on the remote. LOL!


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

RAD said:


> We can only hope. But frankly the AM21's had some issues since it came out and we're also waiting on those to be fixed. It's great that DirecTV's spending the money and time adding all the nice feature that they have to the STB's but it would also be nice if they'd spend a CE cycle to getting what they have working up to customers expectations.


+1. They need to do for the HR21/22/23's what they did for the 20's in 0x02F4. GUIDE paging speed on a NR HR20-700 has never been faster than it is right now, e.g. /steve


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## mikek (May 18, 2007)

Tallgntlmn said:


> I notice slowness too. I mean extreme. HR22-100 here. I had to hit guide 4 times this morning before the dadgum guide popped up. I typed in 206-enter a few times and went to 2 then got 06 is not a channel and then got 62 is not a channel. I mean geeze, I push 206-enter and I want ESP-friggin-N, not have to type it 4 times before ESPN tunes in. I then tried to go to 805, same darn thing. Oh yeah, don't let me forget when I am sitting on a local and then hit 360-enter and have to wait a good 4 seconds before I see a picture on 360. Before someone starts some silly political argument, it isn't just 360 I could go from 805 to 269 right now and see the same thing.
> 
> The slowness is blatant to me. I come from a SD-DVR40 to this thing. The old TiVo software was so much faster than this. I could hit guide and see the guide. Type 206 and watch SportsCenter, not continue to try to get to SportsCenter. Yeah, it was slow going to the list and the setup options, but everyday use was so much more robust.
> 
> I just wish D* would do something about this slowness. I just want it to be like my old D-TiVo.


Setting up quicktune (is that what it is called? (up arrow)) might help you.

-mk


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Steve said:


> +1. They need to do for the HR21/22/23's what they did for the 20's in 0x02F4. GUIDE paging speed on a NR HR20-700 has never been faster than it is right now, e.g. /steve


How do you test the "Guide paging speed"?

Rich


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## Coumyl (Sep 10, 2007)

I have two HR-23's. Both are extremely slow. I use to own a HR-20 which was decent. I feel after all of this, slow is normal. Maybe the new Tivo models coming out the first quater of next year will be much faster in every area.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

rich584 said:


> How do you test the "Guide paging speed"?


*My GUIDE Speed Testing methodology:*

Tune to channel 2 (CBS MPEG-4 local).
Hit GUIDE, set to "Channels I Get"
Time 20 PAGE DOWNS, clicking the next one when the grid changes (I don't pay attention to program INFO at the top)
Re-tune GUIDE to channel 2 and repeat 20 PAGE DOWNS
Re-tune GUIDE to channel 2 and repeat 20 PAGE DOWNS
Calculate average of 3 runs.
Toggle "Scrolling Effects" and repeat test.
On the current HR20-700 national release (0x02F4), I'm seeing the best time ever. About 13.5 seconds with one "ad" in the PPV's. No speed difference with scrolling effects are "off" or "on". The more "ads" in the GUIDE (in the PPV section), the slower things get. /steve


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## Ken_F (Jan 13, 2003)

Linux benchmarks run on dual-chip Tivo Series3 (same dual decoders as HR20) and single-chip TivoHD (same decoder as HR21/22/23) have shown significantly higher memory bandwidth with the dual-chip solution. This is the source of the disparity between those units.

There is some hope for DirecTV, as TiVo was able to significantly improve menu and guide responsiveness in the 9.4 software and again in the 11.0 software. It seems ironic that members used to criticize the TiVo for its responsiveness, yet standalone TivoHD is now faster and more responsive for many tasks than DirecTV's own software when running on essentially the same (HR21/HR22/HR23) hardware.

You can't really criticize DirecTV or TiVo for using a slow processor, because Broadcom didn't offer any faster [single-chip] SoCs at the time. Next-generation SoCs only recently became available, and Dish Network is the first to ship a DVR based on one of these solutions (ViP722k, and soon the ViP922). Look for DirecTV to incorporate one of these [much] faster SoCs in a new DVR by the end of the year.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Steve said:


> *My GUIDE Speed Testing methodology:*
> 
> Tune to channel 2 (CBS MPEG-4 local).
> Hit GUIDE, set to "Channels I Get"
> ...


Thanx Steve, I'm kind of "geeked" out (and you know I'm not a geek, sadly) from the last two days of struggling with a wireless adapter and installing a large internal in an HR (owned) today.

I will try it on each different model I have (four) and get back to you. Well, you've already done it on the 20-700s and mine are all attached to very large eSATAs that are nearing the point where they begin to bog down, so I'll just test a 22, a 21-700 (not Fubar) and a 200 (if I can bear to go in my son's room).

I don't really see any annoying slowdowns on any of my HRs. Even Fubars been working pretty quickly lately. Be interesting to see your interpretations of my findings.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Ken_F said:


> You can't really criticize DirecTV or TiVo for using a slow processor, because Broadcom didn't offer any faster [single-chip] SoCs at the time. Next-generation SoCs only recently became available, and Dish Network is the first to ship a DVR based on one of these solutions (ViP722k, and soon the ViP922). Look for DirecTV to incorporate one of these [much] faster SoCs in a new DVR by the end of the year.


Oh boy, what a great post! A new toy! And for Xmas!

Rich


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

rich584 said:


> I will try it on each different model I have (four) and get back to you.


Here's a recent test I ran comparing the HR22-100, HR20-700 and the R22-200. I run the test every week a new CE comes out. That one was for 0x02ED. /steve


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

RAD said:


> It's great that DirecTV's spending the money and time adding all the nice feature that they have to the STB's but it would also be nice if they'd spend a CE cycle to getting what they have working up to customers expectations.


How many CE'ers have AM21s?

Given the imperative for OTA reception in quite a few markets (those that don't carry the full palette of SD and/or HD channels), I'd think it would be a shoe-in for fast tracking as it is an announced, released and presumably supported feature after all.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Steve said:


> +1. They need to do for the HR21/22/23's what they did for the 20's in 0x02F4. GUIDE paging speed on a NR HR20-700 has never been faster than it is right now, e.g. /steve


And based on what I have seen, they will... I think that they are changing something bigger under the hood than we realize, and I have a feeling that they wanted to do it with thr HR20's first, and then they will move to the others.. The chips being different probably warranted different schedules.. and they are probably using the same team just to work on the speed, efficiency.. Just my guess... At this point, ion all honesty, if I Was in charge, I would continue adding stuff on the HR20's that have now stabilized, and have the HR21, 22, 23 only being worked on to bring them up to speed and stability as the HR20's, and then release national, and then catch them up to the HR20's... But thats just me...


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## DavidR (Apr 23, 2006)

rich584 said:


> ...If none of those suggestions will have any effect on the operation of the HRs, why don't I have those problems? After going thru all the problems I have had since I got my first HRs in the fall of '06, and I've had so many problems I couldn't begin to list them or even remember all of them. Has my luck suddenly changed? Kinda doubt that. You seem like a rational person, can you give me a rational answer that explains why I've suddenly become a non-complainer about issues such as these?
> 
> I could have just ignored this thread, but I'm truly curious. Why not me? The only thing I've done differently from most folks is have my cabling and dish replaced. That ended last April and I've had very few problems since. All those suggestions I made were based on what we did with my "system", the feed to the HRs. How else to explain my lack of problems?
> Rich


Rich,

Well, I have a rational explanation for you and a guess.

First the guess. The fact that you are not experiencing slow response times could be due to your particular -software- setup on these boxes. By that I mean the combination of all your selections in favorites, settings, etc. Even though you own 9? HRs, I would guess that they all have quite a few settings in common, since you probably set them all up. So the slow response time issue may only rear it's head if a certain setting amongst all the available setup screens is set to "no". Or if a certain combination of settings exist.

The rational explanation for why you, amongst all others, seem to have avoided the slow response time problems is that, in fact, you are not alone. I'm sure you know that the people who post in this forum are more likely to be those experiencing problems, and also those geeky enough (sorry, but if the shoe fits...) to thoroughly explore and use all the features of their HRs to the point where they are more likely than the average user to even be aware of a problem. Moreover, many of your cohorts (those not experiencing this problem) have probably not even opened this thread because the subject matter does not pertain to them.

.....David


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## calidelphia (Feb 17, 2007)

rich584 said:


> Now, why would that annoy you?


The fact that you have 9 DVRs does not annoy me in the least. Enjoy.



> So, do you have a problem?


Where do I start...
I have a 21-100 that is glacial on it's best day. This involves horrendous IR support, sluggish GUI, 20 second channel changes, IKD bug... I mean, 4 seconds to move one line in the GUIDE is what I would refer to as "brutally slow".

I'm just fed up with posting the same problems over and over. There's been at least a half dozen threads over the last month and I've posted My issues in all of them. We've been told that DirecTV is looking into this, and yet I haven't had a NR since February 25th.



> Did you have the same problems with your 20-700?


I never had any of these issues with my old 20-700. I also have several friends that have HR20-700s and don't have any issues.



> If you didn't, replace the 100.


Replace it with what? Another 21, a 22, or 23 with the same problems. I also refuse to buy a leased 20 off of Ebay.



> I noted that you did take special notice of my use of the word "awry". Did you have to look it up? I looked up "jagoff", and you did use the word correctly.






rich584 said:


> Kinda leads me to wonder if something in their "system" is awry. By "system", I mean from the dish to the HR. Something must be wrong.


This just sounds to me that you're blaming the end user and again, that doesn't help anyone.


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## johnp37 (Sep 14, 2006)

Brutally slow is putting it mildly. At the risk of being redundant, channel changes taking forever. Guide scrolling ditto. Typing in channel numbers like 246 and getting 2244 or 466. It's getting to the point like the scene in Network where Peter Finch's character screams "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it any more!" Everybody should keep going after D* to fix this and don't let up till they do. Our fees went north and performance went south.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Steve said:


> Here's a recent test I ran comparing the HR22-100, HR20-700 and the R22-200. I run the test every week a new CE comes out. That one was for 0x02ED. /steve


Read your link. Huh. I gotta try this. Fubar was exceptionally slow yesterday, he has bad days and good days and is not a good indicator. I did have the Yankees game recorded on the 22-100 and it really doesn't seem any slower than the 20-700s. I realize that is a subjective statement and will attempt to check at least the 22 today.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

inkahauts said:


> And based on what I have seen, they will... I think that they are changing something bigger under the hood than we realize, and I have a feeling that they wanted to do it with thr HR20's first, and then they will move to the others.. The chips being different probably warranted different schedules.. and they are probably using the same team just to work on the speed, efficiency.. Just my guess... At this point, ion all honesty, if I Was in charge, I would continue adding stuff on the HR20's that have now stabilized, and have the HR21, 22, 23 only being worked on to bring them up to speed and stability as the HR20's, and then release national, and then catch them up to the HR20's... But thats just me...


I wish you were in charge. Perhaps the person in charge will read your post and realize that there is a proper way to do this.

Rich


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## johnp37 (Sep 14, 2006)

inkahauts said:


> And based on what I have seen, they will... I think that they are changing something bigger under the hood than we realize, and I have a feeling that they wanted to do it with thr HR20's first, and then they will move to the others.. The chips being different probably warranted different schedules.. and they are probably using the same team just to work on the speed, efficiency.. Just my guess... At this point, ion all honesty, if I Was in charge, I would continue adding stuff on the HR20's that have now stabilized, and have the HR21, 22, 23 only being worked on to bring them up to speed and stability as the HR20's, and then release national, and then catch them up to the HR20's... But thats just me...


Speed? Efficiency? QC? Just my $.02, but from what I've seen and experienced those don't appear to be the D* hardware/software team's priorities. Sorry, I guess it's just my bad attitude. I really should get some anger management therapy.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

DavidR said:


> Rich,
> 
> Well, I have a rational explanation for you and a guess.
> 
> First the guess. The fact that you are not experiencing slow response times could be due to your particular -software- setup on these boxes. By that I mean the combination of all your selections in favorites, settings, etc. Even though you own 9? HRs, I would guess that they all have quite a few settings in common, since you probably set them all up. So the slow response time issue may only rear it's head if a certain setting amongst all the available setup screens is set to "no". Or if a certain combination of settings exist.


Two things: I have 9 HRs because I have 6 Panny plasma TVs. One (the 1080p TV) has four 20-700s attached to it. The other five TVs have one each. Doesn't seem like that many when you consider the number of TVs, does it? The other thing is that all 9 HRs are all set up exactly the same. All have RF remotes, all Native On. Other than that, I don't know what I'm doing differently that would affect the speed of the HRs. I do have two 6x16 powered Zinwell multi-switches cascaded (cascaded at Zinwell's recommendation).



> The rational explanation for why you, amongst all others, seem to have avoided the slow response time problems is that, in fact, you are not alone.


I realize that, I just wish some others would post positively. Without comparisons, how can conclusions be drawn?



> I'm sure you know that the people who post in this forum are more likely to be those experiencing problems, and also those geeky enough (sorry, but if the shoe fits...) to thoroughly explore and use all the features of their HRs to the point where they are more likely than the average user to even be aware of a problem.


I appreciate the "geek" appellation, but I only aspire to "geekdom". All I know is what I've learned on this forum.



> Moreover, many of your cohorts (those not experiencing this problem) have probably not even opened this thread because the subject matter does not pertain to them.


I have a feeling that a lot of the heavy hitters have read this thread to some extent and have avoided the obvious argument that posting positively would incur.

Thoughtful post, David. Thanx.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

calidelphia said:


> The fact that you have 9 DVRs does not annoy me in the least. Enjoy.


OK.



> Where do I start...
> I have a 21-100 that is glacial on it's best day. This involves horrendous IR support, sluggish GUI, 20 second channel changes, IKD bug... I mean, 4 seconds to move one line in the GUIDE is what I would refer to as "brutally slow".


Anybody that's read a lot of my posts knows how I feel about the whole 100 line. Have you tried a 21-700 or 200?



> I'm just fed up with posting the same problems over and over. There's been at least a half dozen threads over the last month and I've posted My issues in all of them. We've been told that DirecTV is looking into this, and yet I haven't had a NR since February 25th.


I understand your frustration, what we went thru in late '06 thru early '07 was horribly frustrating for all of us. The things just didn't work right. And it did seem as if nothing was being done and there was nowhere else to go and all we wanted was a stable platform that would record and playback correctly. We've come a long way in almost four years.



> I never had any of these issues with my old 20-700. I also have several friends that have HR20-700s and don't have any issues.


There is a very good reason for that. The 20-700s are, in my opinion, the best of the HRs. The worst? The 20-100. Don't buy into the idea that just because all the HRs have D*'s logo on them that they are equal in performance.



> Replace it with what? Another 21, a 22, or 23 with the same problems. I also refuse to buy a leased 20 off of Ebay.


Don't know about the 23s. After the "First Look" at the 23s, I wanted one, but I haven't read anything to suggest that they are anything but a 21-700 with a larger hard drive. I'm going to send you a PM that should change your mind about eBay.



> This just sounds to me that you're blaming the end user and again, that doesn't help anyone.


If blame is to be assigned to anyone, I would blame the installers of your "system". The feed from the dish to your HR. The end user can't possibly be blamed for these issues. The post that resulted in your calling me "pompous" (I believe that was a first, I have been called a "D* shill" a couple times) was meant to point out that other things can be causing slowdowns.

Rich


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Ken_F said:


> Linux benchmarks run on dual-chip Tivo Series3 (same dual decoders as HR20) and single-chip TivoHD (same decoder as HR21/22/23) have shown significantly higher memory bandwidth with the dual-chip solution. This is the source of the disparity between those units. [...]


Yes. If you look closely at the first-look pictures of the HR20, you can see two separate banks of memory on the motherboard. 512 MB for the CPU, and 256 MB for the 7411 decoder. The single-chip 7401-based boxes have the combined CPU/decoder sharing the same bank of memory. /steve


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## mikek (May 18, 2007)

Maybe you (Rich) don't have problems _because _you have 9 DVRs. For example: maybe because you have so many DVRs you don't fill them to 90% with 49 series links like a lot of people with only one DVR do.

-mk


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

mikek said:


> Maybe you (Rich) don't have problems _because _you have 9 DVRs. For example: maybe because you have so many DVRs you don't fill them to 90% with 49 series links like a lot of people with only one DVR do.
> 
> -mk


Thanks for bringing that up, Mike. I had wanted to comment on that and forgot.

Except for my son's and wife's personal HRs, all the HRs have almost full SL lists and all are filled close to the 30% Available mark. Personally, I've never seen any slowdown that could be attributed to the SLs altho, many are inactive because this year's series are over. So the SL shows (0). I do NOT have any HR that has close to 50 active SLs.

Five of my HRs back each other up. Not mirrored perfectly, but close enough that if one goes south, nothing important will be lost.

And for those of you who think nine HRs is a lot, I had 12 TiVos running when I started with the HRs. Slowly got rid of them and all I have is HRs now. And before the TiVos, I had at least 12 Sony VCRs running (that was a nightmare). So perhaps you can understand why I don't think 9 HRs is really a lot. All those TiVos had large hard drives that I installed myself and all were Series 2 SD models.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Steve said:


> Yes. If you look closely at the first-look pictures of the HR20, you can see two separate banks of memory on the motherboard. 512 MB for the CPU, and 256 MB for the 7411 decoder. The single-chip 7401-based boxes have the combined CPU/decoder sharing the same bank of memory. /steve


I had my "owned" 20-700 open yesterday and did see the two memory chips. I also found a fuse in the box. I've had several replacements that were dead on arrival (DOA) and were shipped right back. Bet that fuse was the cause of that. Wouldn't you think that they would make the fuses accessible from the back of the unit? Simple to do. Sony did the same thing with their CRT TVs. The set would seem dead, but if you took off the cover, you'd find a small time delay fuse just after the power cord came in. Again, why not make them accessible?

Rich


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## calidelphia (Feb 17, 2007)

rich584 said:


> I'm going to send you a PM that should change your mind about eBay.


Thanks for the kind PM Rich. I can't believe a piece of electronics can get me so irritated.(as I unbunch my panties) My attack on you was uncalled for.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Steve said:


> Yes. If you look closely at the first-look pictures of the HR20, you can see two separate banks of memory on the motherboard. 512 MB for the CPU, and 256 MB for the 7411 decoder. The single-chip 7401-based boxes have the combined CPU/decoder sharing the same bank of memory. /steve


What would happen if a 1G chip were put in place of the 512MB chip for the CPU?

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

calidelphia said:


> Thanks for the kind PM Rich. I can't believe a piece of electronics can get me so irritated.(as I unbunch my panties) My attack on you was uncalled for.


No problem. But, geez, "pompous"? :lol::lol: (Sorry, couldn't resist.)

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

calidelphia said:


> Thanks for the kind PM Rich. I can't believe a piece of electronics can get me so irritated.(as I unbunch my panties) My attack on you was uncalled for.


How long have you had HRs?

Rich


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

rich584 said:


> What would happen if a 1G chip were put in place of the 512MB chip for the CPU?
> 
> Rich


Those aren't replaceable chips. They're soldered on to the motherboard. /steve


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## calidelphia (Feb 17, 2007)

rich584 said:


> How long have you had HRs?
> 
> Rich


I had a launch HR20-700 installed in October of '06. The HDD went on it about a year ago. Even with all the issues back then, that box was still better than my 21-100. I used to participate in the CE program, but this box is just too unstable to test software on.

So my answer is I am not new to the HRs.

I've also had an old Hughes SD DirecTivo from '02 to '04(HDD went on that too), and I still have an SD DirecTivo R-10 going strong since '04.


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## calidelphia (Feb 17, 2007)

rich584 said:


> No problem. But, geez, "pompous"? :lol::lol: (Sorry, couldn't resist.)
> 
> Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

calidelphia said:


> I had a launch HR20-700 installed in October of '06. The HDD went on it about a year ago. Even with all the issues back then, that box was still better than my 21-100. I used to participate in the CE program, but this box is just too unstable to test software on.
> 
> So my answer is I am not new to the HRs.
> 
> I've also had an old Hughes SD DirecTivo from '02 to '04(HDD went on that too), and I still have an SD DirecTivo R-10 going strong since '04.


So, you only have the one HR?

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Steve said:


> Those aren't replaceable chips. They're soldered on to the motherboard. /steve


But suppose you could?

Rich


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

rich584 said:


> But suppose you could?
> 
> Rich


I don't think the BCM7401-based machine's relative slowness is due to an insufficient amount of memory, but rather to processes queuing up to access a single physical pool of memory. It's my belief that the HR20 can perform some operations in parallel that have to happen serially in an HR21, due to the fact that It's combined CPU/decoder has to share memory.

It's like a family bathroom. Simply making it larger doesn't change the fact that depending on need, most times only one person can use it at a time.  /steve


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## DaverJ (Jun 17, 2006)

I also had my HR20 replaced a couple weeks ago, and the replacement HR (whatever the current box D* is shipping these days) is agonizingly slow. 

All the reports here sound familiar -- not responding to channel inputs, slow ch. ups and downs, guide and program list talking 10 seconds to "fill in"... Uggg. I would love to drop DirecTV, get a speedy HDTivo and do only OTA, but the wife wants to keep HBO and I fear switching back to Comcast.

Random observation: I have both the Ethernet network cable and an AM21 plugged into this new HR. Could one or both of those things cause a problem with these HRs?


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## calidelphia (Feb 17, 2007)

rich584 said:


> So, you only have the one HR?
> 
> Rich


Yup. The R10 has been a solid backup for everything the HRs have dropped the ball on since '06. I've been thinking of replacing it with another HR, but I'm scared. It's not even HD, and I'm scared.

9 boxes= no problem
1 box= problem

Somebody hates me.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Steve said:


> I don't think the BCM7401-based machine's relative slowness is due to an insufficient amount of memory, but rather to processes queuing up to access a single physical pool of memory. It's my belief that the HR20 can perform some operations in parallel that have to happen serially in an HR21, due to the fact that It's combined CPU/decoder has to share memory.
> 
> It's like a family bathroom. Simply making it larger doesn't change the fact that depending on need, most times only one person can use it at a time.  /steve


Glad you thru in the analogy at the end. Had me pretty fuddled up to that point. :lol:

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

calidelphia said:


> Yup. The R10 has been a solid backup for everything the HRs have dropped the ball on since '06. I've been thinking of replacing it with another HR, but I'm scared. It's not even HD, and I'm scared.
> 
> 9 boxes= no problem
> 1 box= problem
> ...


Always a problem when someone only has one HR. Can't switch one stable one for the one with problems. Being able to switch HRs makes troubleshooting so much simpler.

When you only have one, you're at the mercy of the CSRs. After they try everything in their scripts, they either tell you they are working on the problem, or want to send a replacement. And once "replacement roulette" begins...

I wouldn't be afraid of the HRs anymore. I don't think I'll ever get to the point where I won't back them up, but mine have been great since last April. And you can always get a 20-700 on eBay, now that you know how.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

DaverJ said:


> I also had my HR20 replaced a couple weeks ago, and the replacement HR (whatever the current box D* is shipping these days) is agonizingly slow.
> 
> All the reports here sound familiar -- not responding to channel inputs, slow ch. ups and downs, guide and program list talking 10 seconds to "fill in"... Uggg. I would love to drop DirecTV, get a speedy HDTivo and do only OTA, but the wife wants to keep HBO and I fear switching back to Comcast.
> 
> Random observation: I have both the Ethernet network cable and an AM21 plugged into this new HR. Could one or both of those things cause a problem with these HRs?


Your last question is a good one. Some folks have had success by just disconnecting the Internet. Don't know about the AM21s. Try disconnecting the Net. If that speeds up the HR, you know something is wrong with your Net connections. Maybe. With these things...

Rich


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## calidelphia (Feb 17, 2007)

rich584 said:


> Your last question is a good one. Some folks have had success by just disconnecting the Internet. Don't know about the AM21s. Try disconnecting the Net. If that speeds up the HR, you know something is wrong with your Net connections. Maybe. With these things...
> 
> Rich


I can confirm that with or without ethernet my box is a slug.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

calidelphia said:


> I can confirm that with or without ethernet my box is a slug.


I'm starting to have problems with my new 22-100. It's not slow, but it slips to the end of programs for no reason that I can see. I have eight other HRs (he said pompously, :lol and I can compare them to the 22 and the only other one that does that is Fubar, my wounded 21-700. From him, I'm happy it records and plays back.

None of the others have this problem, so that tells me that it is not the software, unless you might want to look at it as "the software on the 22", which is probably a viable consideration. Can the 22s cope with the software? Can any of the 100s?

Wouldn't be that much of a problem if I didn't watch baseball games. The other night, I turned on the 22 and hit play on the Yankees game on the Playlist and it took me to the end of the recording. Naturally, the score was the first thing I saw and they were in the sixth inning. Wrecked the game for me.

From Fubar I expect stuff like this. I've used it for a test platform for a lot of eSATAs and made the mistake of using a cheap HDMI switch on it and two 20-700s. I lost the two 20s and managed to nurse Fubar back to almost normal. Still does some strange things, but it still works and I'm not about to get a replacement for it.

I bought that 22-100 with great trepidation and was shocked when it worked. Now my fears seem to be coming to fruition. Any HR that ends in 100 is a crap shoot at best and a piece of junk at worst. Just an opinion, I really wanted the 22 to work, and now...

Rich


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## johnp37 (Sep 14, 2006)

Hi Rich Bummer that you are having problems with your 22. I am still holding out hope for 23 availability sometime soon.


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## calidelphia (Feb 17, 2007)

:scratch:


rich584 said:


> I'm starting to have problems with my new 22-100. It's not slow, but it slips to the end of programs for no reason that I can see. I have eight other HRs (he said pompously, :lol and I can compare them to the 22 and the only other one that does that is Fubar, my wounded 21-700. From him, I'm happy it records and plays back.
> 
> None of the others have this problem, so that tells me that it is not the software, unless you might want to look at it as "the software on the 22", which is probably a viable consideration. Can the 22s cope with the software? Can any of the 100s?
> 
> ...


Yeah, that sucks.

Although I haven't been dumped to the end of a recording, I have several times been jumped to a tick mark while trying to FF through commercials. I guess I don't use 30 second slip enough for the prior to happen.

Were you by any chance using the 30 second skip/slip when this happened or did you press play out of the list?
Weird. :scratch:


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

johnp37 said:


> Hi Rich Bummer that you are having problems with your 22. I am still holding out hope for 23 availability sometime soon.


Wasn't unexpected. I just took a new Panny BD player back to the Bridgewater Costco and did not see one HR of any kind. They gotta run out of the 22s sometime, no?

I'm gonna hold out for the "new" HR that is supposed to come out at the end of the year. Altho after reading about all the problems folks are having with the more "robust" 23s, I'm not getting my hopes up. eBay seems to be loaded with HRs for sale all of a sudden. D* must have relaxed their ban on selling "leased" HRs.

I really wanted that Panny BD player to work well. Horrible manual. Even the folks at Panasonic couldn't figure out what was going on and told me to take it back and get another one. Not going thru that again. I'll wait until Edison or Bridgewater gets the Sonys back in the stores. They sold out really quickly.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

calidelphia said:


> :scratch:
> 
> Yeah, that sucks.
> 
> ...


I hit Play when the game was highlighted on the Playlist. First time that's ever happened. Went right to the end of the recording while the game was still recording. I think it was in the sixth or seventh inning. Never expected that to happen. Usually happens when I click the slip button too fast.

Just another day in D*Paradise. :lol:

Rich


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## stalepez (Apr 29, 2009)

Hi, I've got an HR23-700 that's also painfully slow. I posted to the D* forums, got no "real" response, so I waited it out, followed that thread and this one, and decided to just call tech support. I got someone who was helpful, though I did have to jump through the usual hoops (reset, clear firmware, etc.). I was very thorough about exactly what was slow (virtually everything), symptoms, how long it took to navigate the guide, and the especially painful recorded program list.

He says he didn't see anything logged in his system, but I asked him to please go ahead with escalation to engineering. As a systems engineer myself, I know that it takes more than one person's complaint to get anything accomplished.

Please, call them, get your complaints logged, and ask them to escalate to engineering. I know another person who recently received this same HR model with identical issues, and he is calling in tonight.

Basically, nothing's going to get done until they see a decent sampling of users' complaints come down the pipe.

As always, please be nice to the rep. They're CSR's, not engineers! I know how nerve-wracking it is waiting for a fix, but patience with the rep and a well-explained trouble report will go a long way towards a rapid response.

Personally, I think it's poor memory management in the embedded OS that's causing the problem. My first time using the unit after the recent software update was great, it was relatively quick and responsive, but after about 15 minutes of watching TV, I went back to the guide and the ghost had returned to the machine.

Let's hope this gets fixed soon!

[c]


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

rich584 said:


> They gotta run out of the 22s sometime, no?


My local Costco seems to drag out another 2-4 HR22-100 units each week. I can't imagine where they are hiding them.


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## lyradd (Mar 20, 2006)

I have an HR23-700 that at times is so slow I can push a button on the remote, go into the kitchen and grab a snack and cup of coffee, and if I'm lucky something will happen by the time I get back.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

harsh said:


> My local Costco seems to drag out another 2-4 HR22-100 units each week. I can't imagine where they are hiding them.


They put out a lot at a time in both Costco's in my area. They fly off the shelves. Truly amazing. And I bought one recently. That was truly amazing. And now it's starting to give me problems. I knew I would have problems with it and I bought it anyhow. Truly amazing.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

lyradd said:


> I have an HR23-700 that at times is so slow I can push a button on the remote, go into the kitchen and grab a snack and cup of coffee, and if I'm lucky something will happen by the time I get back.


But, how can that be? The 23-700 is more robust. :lol:

Rich


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## calidelphia (Feb 17, 2007)

I just checked out the new scoreguide and man, is that lightning quick. 

The normal Guide is super slow, and the interactive Guide is this fast??? Someone is definitely playing a joke on me.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

calidelphia said:


> I just checked out the new scoreguide and man, is that lightning quick.
> 
> The normal Guide is super slow, and the interactive Guide is this fast??? Someone is definitely playing a joke on me.


This kills me, but I gotta ask: What is the new score guide and where is it?

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

harsh said:


> My local Costco seems to drag out another 2-4 HR22-100 units each week. I can't imagine where they are hiding them.


Just got back from Costco and nothing. Not one HR. Last week they had a pallet full of HRs (22-100s) stacked up in the aisle.

Rich


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## johnp37 (Sep 14, 2006)

rich584 said:


> This kills me, but I gotta ask: What is the new score guide and where is it?
> 
> Rich


Just hit the red button on your remote during play action and there you go. Hit it again to make it go away. Great new feature, I love it!


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## calidelphia (Feb 17, 2007)

rich584 said:


> This kills me, but I gotta ask: What is the new score guide and where is it?
> 
> Rich


Check Here.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

johnp37 said:


> Just hit the red button on your remote during play action and there you go. Hit it again to make it go away. Great new feature, I love it!


I gotta try it some more. I'm waiting for the Yankees game to start to see if it functions during recording. I guess you can't select which games to display. Nope doesn't work during a recording. Have to give this some thought. Perhaps football...

Bet *armophob*, who so desperately wants a quick button to access the ToDo list, is upset about this. I'd like to see that ToDo list quick button too, as well as a quick button for the prioritizer.

Rich


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## armophob (Nov 13, 2006)

rich584 said:


> I gotta try it some more. I'm waiting for the Yankees game to start to see if it functions during recording. I guess you can't select which games to display. Nope doesn't work during a recording. Have to give this some thought. Perhaps football...
> 
> Bet *armophob*, who so desperately wants a quick button to access the ToDo list, is upset about this. I'd like to see that ToDo list quick button too, as well as a quick button for the prioritizer.
> 
> Rich


armophob would have been blissfully ignorant of it if rich584 had not mentioned his name


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## Mockenrue (Oct 11, 2006)

It does seem like every DirecTV box is slower than the last one. Ad to that the lag from my Harmony remote and I've just gotten used to pausing between clicks.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

armophob said:


> armophob would have been blissfully ignorant of it if rich584 had not mentioned his name


I should suffer alone? :lol: I was willing to keep my mouth shut about what you have to go thru to get to the ToDo list and the Prioritizer, but after seeing how easily D* adapted the red button to the score thingee, I think we should all raise our voices in protest.

Rich


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## mworks (Oct 8, 2007)

what is sad is that my old tivo box from two years ago has a faster guide and snappier response than a box recently produced .


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## John Silver (Feb 5, 2005)

RAD said:


> OK, got to ask, do folks spend more time playing with the HR2X's GUI or actually watching programming?


Unfortunately I spend more time with the GUI than I'd like because of the poor search capabilities. What used to be done automatically with the 10-250 must now be done manually.


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## diagoro (Aug 17, 2006)

Another cause yet?

Could there also be some form of tracking that is going on, logging all actions on the box which could create a delay in processing? I know the network lights are always blinking as though there is some constant traffic........


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