# R15 - Skipping Commercials



## FarmGrrl (Dec 4, 2005)

What is the best way to skip commercials? This is our first DVR and I expected it to be easy to skip them, but we always go past the end of the commercials, and have to back up!

Even our 5-year-old VCR has "commercial advance" which automatically detects the change from content to commercials, fast forwards for you, and stops FF at the correct place.

Do the TiVo's (R10 I guess) even have this feature?


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## Red Dwarf (Aug 25, 2002)

FarmGrrl said:


> What is the best way to skip commercials? This is our first DVR and I expected it to be easy to skip them, but we always go past the end of the commercials, and have to back up!
> 
> Even our 5-year-old VCR has "commercial advance" which automatically detects the change from content to commercials, fast forwards for you, and stops FF at the correct place.
> 
> Do the TiVo's (R10 I guess) even have this feature?


You bet Tivos do. The lack of a 30 second skip is the biggest weakness in the DirecTv line of "improved DVRs". And if I have to give up my HD Tivo for a DVR without this feature, I'm moving over to Dish.


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

The "out of the box" TIVO does not have it but it can be programmed in by the user if they get the code. As yet no one has found a code for the R15 which is a shame as it is handy. I use the FFX3 and hit =(pause) then play. The pause stops the FF immediately unlike just pressing play. It's a pain and I'm going to work on programing my other remote to do it with one button.


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## pjo1966 (Nov 20, 2005)

Or to simulate what the TiVo does, hit FF twice then the jump back button as soon as you see your program. You may need to hit the jump back button twice. On the TiVo it automatically jumps back 8 seconds when you hit play.


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## Malibu13 (Sep 12, 2004)

pjo1966 said:


> Or to simulate what the TiVo does, hit FF twice then the jump back button as soon as you see your program. You may need to hit the jump back button twice. On the TiVo it automatically jumps back 8 seconds when you hit play.


ISWIZ's suggestion seems to be the best workaround at this point. .........by hitting the "pause button", the video should immediately stop. i have found this to be quite effective when combined with pressing the "instant replay" button after "pause". it's not a fix, but an effective solution.


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## mphare (Nov 15, 2005)

No, not even TiVos have this feature, as you've defined it. I believe any new equipment will not have the detection circuitry for skipping commercials anymore. I think the network big-wigs were successful in lobbying that away. After all, commercials pay the bills.

What TiVo has is either a hacked 30 sec skip, or a FF that's better than the R15 because it will compensate for over-shooting the end of the comercial once you get the hange of the timing. Either one of these you have to manually engage at the onset of a commercial break and disengage at the end of the break. It not automatic as you've suggested.



FarmGrrl said:


> What is the best way to skip commercials? This is our first DVR and I expected it to be easy to skip them, but we always go past the end of the commercials, and have to back up!
> 
> Even our 5-year-old VCR has "commercial advance" which automatically detects the change from content to commercials, fast forwards for you, and stops FF at the correct place.
> 
> Do the TiVo's (R10 I guess) even have this feature?


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## mphare (Nov 15, 2005)

Red Dwarf said:


> You bet Tivos do. The lack of a 30 second skip is the biggest weakness in the DirecTv line of "improved DVRs"....


Not really, on so may levels..

If the 30 sec skip were the biggest weakness, then I would suspect about 75% of DTiVo users to love the R15, since from what I gather, about 75% of DTiVo users don't use the 30 skip hack anyways.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

mphare said:


> No, not even TiVos have this feature, as you've defined it. I believe any new equipment will not have the detection circuitry for skipping commercials anymore. I think the network big-wigs were successful in lobbying that away. After all, commercials pay the bills.
> 
> What TiVo has is either a hacked 30 sec skip, or a FF that's better than the R15 because it will compensate for over-shooting the end of the comercial once you get the hange of the timing. Either one of these you have to manually engage at the onset of a commercial break and disengage at the end of the break. It not automatic as you've suggested.


Actually I think they just sued ReplayTV into taking it out. I don't think it's illegal they just used their lawyers and deeper pockets to get rid of it.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

mphare said:


> Not really, on so may levels..
> 
> If the 30 sec skip were the biggest weakness, then I would suspect about 75% of DTiVo users to love the R15, since from what I gather, about 75% of DTiVo users don't use the 30 skip hack anyways.


Are these stats based on your own personal surveys?


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## Red Dwarf (Aug 25, 2002)

mphare said:


> Not really, on so may levels..
> 
> If the 30 sec skip were the biggest weakness, then I would suspect about 75% of DTiVo users to love the R15, since from what I gather, about 75% of DTiVo users don't use the 30 skip hack anyways.


I would question that. Don't you have a Tivo to skip the ads? If you don't know already how to get your Tivo "hacked" press select play select 30 select on the remote. :lol:


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## mphare (Nov 15, 2005)

The OP was looking for an 'automatic' way of skipping commercials.

Several products used to detect changes in sync signal as key to automatically skip commercials. I only remember this from the early days and it was problematic at best; either missing the onset or the end of a commercial break. Maybe it got better in later years. But networks (deep pockets) hated it for obvious reasons. 

No TiVo does that, not that I'm aware of. I guess ReplayTV used to.

The DTiVo 30 second skip is not automatic. You have to press a button to skip the commercial; and probably press it more than once followed by the back-skip until you home onto the beginning of programming (which is why I've gone back to the FF method, less buttons).

Both the DTiVos and the R15 can FF through a commercial, the DTiVos do it slightly better only because of the compensation coming out of FF.

My assertion of 75% flocking to the R15 was a complete factoid (I made it up) to make a point. That being the 30 second skip is not what's keeping the majority of DTiVo users from embracing the R15. I inferred this from the bazillion anti-R15 threads on this and other sites. Rarely (if ever) do the opposers say it's bacause they can't skip 30 seconds at a time.


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

It's not a factoid, it's a TIVOID. 

Claims tossed about by staunch TIVO fans and detractors alike. 

The validity of these TIVOID's are the sole responsibility of Wolffpack who is our Fact Checker in Chief.:hurah:


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

Pull the cord: Keep 30s Skip 11 16.67% 
Leave It: Get Networking and all it's friends 55 83.33% 
Voters: 66. 


The above was from a survey done in August and it appears that alot are quick to give up 30 sec. skip for other "toys". While not the same issue, it does suggest that these users were not entrenched in keeping it. 

If we could do a survey I think one of comparing FF (at all rates) with the proper correction from PLAY vs 30 sec. SKIP would be a more interesting choice.


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## LockMD (Nov 16, 2005)

ISWIZ said:


> Pull the cord: Keep 30s Skip 11 16.67%
> Leave It: Get Networking and all it's friends 55 83.33%
> Voters: 66.
> 
> ...


I did set my R10 up with the 30 second skip, but I find myself using FF most of the time.


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## Marcia_Brady (Nov 25, 2005)

So then what are people like eengert, R-15oids? Is he an ...anTiVoid? 


Perhaps simply...a Void? :lol: Hmmmm....I dunno if I'm being 'subjective' here or not, so I best just stoppit.


____________

Cupcake


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## mphare (Nov 15, 2005)

Actually, I'm a UTVoid, but lost out when my unit died.

I'm more of an anTiVoid than an R15oid (why does that sound like something from Starwars?) 

I only champion the R15 because it works well enough for, and it's the future for DTV, so I suspect it to only get better.


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

ISWIZ said:


> Claims tossed about by staunch TIVO fans and detractors alike.


As I said, claims tossed out by all sides with no source shown. We're all guilty of it at times.


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## RCY (Nov 17, 2005)

LockMD said:


> I did set my R10 up with the 30 second skip, but I find myself using FF most of the time.


I've gotten used to using the 30 second skip and then the 8 sec replay to get to the start of the program after commercials. But I can see using FF for that too.

The place I really like the 30 second skip is when watching a football game. Once the tackle happens, hit the 30 second skip, and they're walking up to the line of scrimmage for the next play. Pretty slick.


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## wishfull1 (Nov 22, 2005)

RCY said:


> I've gotten used to using the 30 second skip and then the 8 sec replay to get to the start of the program after commercials. But I can see using FF for that too.
> 
> The place I really like the 30 second skip is when watching a football game. Once the tackle happens, hit the 30 second skip, and they're walking up to the line of scrimmage for the next play. Pretty slick.


Finally... the reason for the 30 second skip outcry. I never watch football, but I can see the 30 second skip purpose now. I never knew.

For all you football watchers out there, I hope you get (or find) your 30 second skip.

Cheers


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

wishfull1 said:


> Finally... the reason for the 30 second skip outcry. I never watch football, but I can see the 30 second skip purpose now. I never knew.
> 
> For all you football watchers out there, I hope you get (or find) your 30 second skip.
> 
> Cheers


I also watch football, but I'm very use to the 30 second skip. Depending on what channel you're watching you know there are 4-6 button presses normally. Comedy Central....6-8 button presses. It's very quick. Press.press.press.press..at show?no.press.press at show.yes..back and maybe another back. Does depend on ones reaction time. Depending on how "toasted" folks are, we could be 3-4 minutes into the show before we realize it and press pause/play. With a 30 second skip our "toast" factor only delays pressing 30 second again. :goodjob:


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## tall1 (Aug 9, 2005)

wishfull1 said:


> Finally... the reason for the 30 second skip outcry. I never watch football, but I can see the 30 second skip purpose now. I never knew.
> 
> For all you football watchers out there, I hope you get (or find) your 30 second skip.
> 
> Cheers


Thankfully for me, almost all of the football games I watch are now televised in HD. I am able to 30 sec skip between plays with the HD Tivo. But I record alot of BB and hockey on the R15 and I never realized how much I would miss the 30 sec skip watching these sports programs. Maybe I am digitally (as in digits=fingers) challenged but I cannot get the hang of the button combinations (e.g. FF, Pause then Play) to FF through various stoppages in play (icing, offsides, fouls etc.). I had fooled myself into thinking that if I can handle using FF only on Tivo and/or the comcast iGuide, I should be able to handle using FF with the R15. But the R15 is so damn quirky I can never get it to smoothly skip over commercials or stoppages in play without missing large parts of game action. Without a 30 sec skip coupled with the erratic behavior of the FF function, the R15 is a huge disappointment.

Is there any chance D* would add a 30 second skip? And I thought I read somewhere that FF snapback is patented by Tivo so we probably will never see anything like that either. If you can't elegantly skip commercials it really makes the R15 almost VCR-like. Seems crazy the technology can do it but the content evildoers don't want us to have this functionality.


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## Guest (Dec 9, 2005)

From what I'm reading here, it sounds like DirecTV's DVRs aren't nearly as good as the ones with integrated Tivo. Also, that they are buggy. How is DTV going to survive if they foist an inferior product on their subscribers?


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## mphare (Nov 15, 2005)

They are nearly as good. I don't see a lot of difference between the two.


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## tall1 (Aug 9, 2005)

They aren't nearly as good. I see huge differences between the two.


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

rcoleman111 said:


> From what I'm reading here, it sounds like DirecTV's DVRs aren't nearly as good as the ones with integrated Tivo. Also, that they are buggy. How is DTV going to survive if they foist an inferior product on their subscribers?


Probably because:

1. DTV w Tivo users (like me) will tire of no updates
2. DTV will fix the R15 problems
3. DTV will continue to upgrade the R15
4. and lastly.............it's FREE!


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## RCY (Nov 17, 2005)

ISWIZ said:


> Probably because:
> 
> 1. DTV w Tivo users (like me) will tire of no updates
> 2. DTV will fix the R15 problems
> ...


Once a product (DirectTIVO) goes out of production, the clock starts ticking, no matter what anyone thinks of its relative merits. (see Sony Betamax) The ardent TIVO loyalists may hold out for years, but the mainstream will eventually move on. As long as my DTIVOs work, I'll probably wait until HD programming is available for most channels before changing DVRs. This should give D* time to work out the kinks in their homegrown DVRs like the R15 and their future HD DVR.


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

mphare said:


> They are nearly as good. I don't see a lot of difference between the two.


How is widespread skipping of recordings, partial recordings, no dual live buffers and 100 limit max on what you can schedule to record "nearly as good"?

The R15 cannot even do the bare bones minimum correctly, ie skips recordings. A Dual live buffer is not some extravagant feature that only hard core tivo users know about and use. Even the crappy motorola cable boxes have dual live buffers.

I'm not a tivo fanatic, I simply want the best box I can get, but this thing, in its current state, is crap and to say it is "nearly as good" is just not credible (other than maybe with Kanyon and eengert).


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## mphare (Nov 15, 2005)

My R15 has never missed or had a partial recording.
I've never missed the dual live buffers.

For me, it's nearly as good.


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

mphare said:


> My R15 has never missed or had a partial recording.
> I've never missed the dual live buffers.
> 
> For me, it's nearly as good.


Sounds like for you a VCR is also "nearly as good"


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

raott said:


> How is widespread skipping of recordings, partial recordings, no dual live buffers and 100 limit max on what you can schedule to record "nearly as good"?
> 
> The R15 cannot even do the bare bones minimum correctly, ie skips recordings. A Dual live buffer is not some extravagant feature that only hard core tivo users know about and use. Even the crappy motorola cable boxes have dual live buffers.
> 
> I'm not a tivo fanatic, I simply want the best box I can get, but this thing, in its current state, is crap and to say it is "nearly as good" is just not credible (other than maybe with Kanyon and eengert).


Hey I freely admit that it has issues, I have called a number of them into DirecTV to complain. I just didn't expect it to be a perfect box, heck my Tivo has some issues that annoy me to this day. I have never had an issue with a partial recording and I think only maybe missed one show and i'm not sure why it was missed. Now the problem that really does get on my nerves is a bunch of stuff being recorded that I don't want, I have many of my SL's set for first run and I get annoyed that I have to delete 3-4 reruns a day from some of them.

I personally am giving them some time to get this thing fixed before I get mad and leave DirecTV or start really yelling about it. The beautiful thing here is if you don't like it you can always leave, I can go back to using my SA Tivo's exclusively, but for the most part the R15 does all the important thing I need. Oh and I have 41 SL's now (before someone says I don't use it much).


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## tall1 (Aug 9, 2005)

Am I the only one who has a huge problem with the transport commands FF and RW? I cannot for the life of me fast forward or rewind to get even within a few minutes of where I want to be in a program. I recorded the hockey game last night and tried to FF to watch only the goals scored. When I FF and notice a goal has been scored, I hit RW and keep an eye on the game clock. The picture being displayed showed the game clock at approx. 6:00 minutes. I hit play or pause/play, doesn't matter which command I press, and suddenly I am watching the game at around the 10:00 minute mark. So I FF until I notice the game clock displaying about the 6:00 mark, press play and it begins playing with approx. 2:00 minutes left in the period. The picture that is being displayed during the transport doesn't match with the read/write head of the HDD.

I think if D* intended to have a 30 sec skip on the R15, it would already be available. Unless the NDS programmers are completely ignorant of all other DVRs there is no way they could not know the 30 sec skip is one of the most important transport commands. IMO this signals they will never add a 30 sec skip due to threats from content providers.

They will also never add FF snapback because it is a Tivo patent.

D* will most likely fix the FF/RW problem I am experiencing but snapback and 30 sec skip will probably never happen. I guess if you never used Tivo or you are content with just hitting play and never FF or RW the program, you will not have a problem with the R15. But I don't watch TV that way anymore and it is so frustrating to try and adapt to the bug infested R15.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

I thought other DVR's have the autocorrection feature from FF?


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## Malibu13 (Sep 12, 2004)

raott said:


> How is widespread skipping of recordings, partial recordings, no dual live buffers and 100 limit max on what you can schedule to record "nearly as good"?
> 
> The R15 cannot even do the bare bones minimum correctly, ie skips recordings. A Dual live buffer is not some extravagant feature that only hard core tivo users know about and use. Even the crappy motorola cable boxes have dual live buffers.
> 
> I'm not a tivo fanatic, I simply want the best box I can get, but this thing, in its current state, is crap and to say it is "nearly as good" is just not credible (other than maybe with Kanyon and eengert).


it's credible with me ..........but not perfect and neither is my DSR 708:nono2: 
so, add me to your list, along with eengert & Kanyon71 ......now there's three of us:hurah:


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

db54 said:


> it's credible with me ..........but not perfect and neither is my DSR 708:nono2:
> so, add me to your list, along with eengert & Kanyon71 ......now there's three of us:hurah:


Rupert's three sons.


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## Malibu13 (Sep 12, 2004)

raott said:


> Rupert's three sons.


jealous are we


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## samo (Nov 9, 2002)

tall1 said:


> Am I the only one who has a huge problem with the transport commands FF and RW? I cannot for the life of me fast forward or rewind to get even within a few minutes of where I want to be in a program. I recorded the hockey game last night and tried to FF to watch only the goals scored. When I FF and notice a goal has been scored, I hit RW and keep an eye on the game clock. The picture being displayed showed the game clock at approx. 6:00 minutes. I hit play or pause/play, doesn't matter which command I press, and suddenly I am watching the game at around the 10:00 minute mark. So I FF until I notice the game clock displaying about the 6:00 mark, press play and it begins playing with approx. 2:00 minutes left in the period. The picture that is being displayed during the transport doesn't match with the read/write head of the HDD.
> 
> I think if D* intended to have a 30 sec skip on the R15, it would already be available. Unless the NDS programmers are completely ignorant of all other DVRs there is no way they could not know the 30 sec skip is one of the most important transport commands. IMO this signals they will never add a 30 sec skip due to threats from content providers.
> 
> ...


Nop. You are not only one. For a life of me I can't figure out how to stop FF at the end of the commercial. Even using pause instead of play the best I can do is to get close using 2X, with 3X it is plain impossible. I got so pissed that I went to CompUSA and got myself R10. I have been using SA TiVo and Dish DVRs for over 6 years but recently I had to switch to Direct due to programming availability. I can cope with all kind of bugs and don't mind too much to be unofficial "beta tester", but not be able to skip commercials drives me nuts because I'm so used to be able to do it. Sorry, no advanced or better feature on R15 means anything to me unless they take care of commercial skip. I was even considering getting universal remote and try to program it for 30 sec skip, but then I realized that it would cost me almost as much to get the universal remote capable of doing so as to get extra R10. So I decided to use R15 for overflow or to watch live TV when my R10 records on both inputs.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

raott said:


> Rupert's three sons.


Great!!! Couldn't be said better.
:icon_lol:


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## pentium101 (Nov 19, 2005)

ISWIZ said:


> Probably because:
> 
> 1. DTV w Tivo users (like me) will tire of no updates


I wouldn't be so sure of that decision.

I've read where several tivo users prefer to run the old 4.01b on their boxes versus the latest software that's available. They are not even accepting the updates that are available and seem to be quite happy about that.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> Great!!! Couldn't be said better.
> :icon_lol:


If I was one of his sons I would most likey havea Sky+ DVR


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## fullcourt81 (Sep 8, 2005)

have you noticed how stations have added commercials for their progamming in the middle of the paid commercials. It used to be that when you say the CBS or NBC promos, you knew that you were at the end of the commercial run, but now they show up in the middle and then at the end again. I feel that this change is due to DVRs and fast forwarding.


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## wishfull1 (Nov 22, 2005)

tall1 said:


> They will also never add FF snapback because it is a Tivo patent.
> 
> D* will most likely fix the FF/RW problem I am experiencing but snapback and 30 sec skip will probably never happen. I guess if you never used Tivo or you are content with just hitting play and never FF or RW the program, you will not have a problem with the R15. But I don't watch TV that way anymore and it is so frustrating to try and adapt to the bug infested R15.


I don't believe this to be true. I have yet to see any proof of this TiVo patent. Everybody says this, but can't proof it. Therefore, don't believe it.

UltimateTV by Microsoft had/has Dual Tuners, 30 second skip and FF/RW compensation from the time it was released to the market. Long before it came to TiVo via software updates, secret codes and hacking.


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## Curtis52 (Oct 14, 2003)

wishfull1 said:


> I don't believe this to be true. I have yet to see any proof of this TiVo patent. Everybody says this, but can't proof it. Therefore, don't believe it.


United States Patent 6,850,691

Inventors: Stam; Wijnand Van (Sunnyvale, CA); Vallone; Robert (Palo Alto, CA) 
Assignee: Tivo, Inc. (Alviso, CA) 
Appl. No.: 539295
Filed: March 30, 2000

Automatic playback overshoot correction system 
Abstract

An automatic playback overshoot correction system predicts the position in the program material where the user expects to be when the user stops the fast forward or reverse progression of the program material. The invention determines the position where the program material was stopped. The media controller transitions to the new mode that the user selected, starting at the stopped position with an overshoot correction factor added or subtracted from it. The invention adapts to the user by remembering how much the user corrects after he stops the fast forward or reverse mode. Correction factors are calculated using the user's corrections and adjusting the correction factors if the user continues to make corrections. The invention also uses a prediction method to correctly place the user within the program upon transition out of either mode and determines if the speed of the fast forward or reverse modes and then automatically subtracts or adds, respectively, a time multiple to the frame where the transition was detected and positions the user at the correct frame. The time multiple is fine tuned if the user is consistently correcting after the fast forward or rewind mode stops. Another method initially tests the user's reaction time using a test video and asks the user to press the fast forward or reverse button on his control device during the test video and then asks the user to position the video to the place that he expected the system to have been. This time span is then used whenever the user uses the fast forward or reverse modes and is adjusted with a multiple for each speed. A final method allows the user to simply set a sensitivity setting that the system will use as a correction factor and a multiple is subtracted or added to the release frame whenever the user uses the fast forward or reverse modes, respectively.


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## wishfull1 (Nov 22, 2005)

Interesting. I stand correctedThanks Curtis.

How was Microsoft able to incorporate this in their UTV when it was released in Oct. 2000?

Cheers


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## mphare (Nov 15, 2005)

I'll bet it's the learning part of the correction system that's patented, not just the fact that when I come out of a 2xFF the box will reset an additional 5 seconds - always.

Patenting something like a simple, constant 5 second correction would be an awful lot like patenting the FF itself.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Given all the patents and software, why ta heck doesn't News Corp just buy Tivo? They're on the skids, stock is low. Just buy the software, suck the patents and software into NDS and come up with the best DVR ever produced?


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## Curtis52 (Oct 14, 2003)

Wolffpack said:


> Given all the patents and software, why ta heck doesn't News Corp just buy Tivo? They're on the skids, stock is low. Just buy the software, such the patents and software into NDS and come up with the best DVR ever produced?


TiVo isn't for sale and they have a pison pill.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Curtis52 said:


> TiVo isn't for sale and they have a pison pill.


So Bankruptcy is the option?

No one there seems to have to skills to actually run a business. They have the technology but no business/marketing skills.

Oh, I believe anyone can be bought even if they are not for sale.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> So Bankruptcy is the option?
> 
> No one there seems to have to skills to actually run a business. They have the technology but no business/marketing skills.
> 
> Oh, I believe anyone can be bought even if they are not for sale.


Actually I was reading an article that sort of explains why the R15 has comeabout and why Tivo isn't going to be around DirecTV after 2007. Appearantly Rupert tried to buy out Tivo a couple years back and Tivo refused to sell saying that they where afraid that if he bought them then they would only be tied to DirecTV or NewCorp owned businesses. This appearantly made him mad and thats why all this is going on. Now I have no idea if what I read is really true because I didn't really research it, but if it is then it all would sort of make sense. In the long run I think someone like NewCorp or Comcast or someone large like them is going to end up with Tivo anyway, not sure how long they can hold out without ever turning a profit.


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

mphare said:


> I'll bet it's the learning part of the correction system that's patented, not just the fact that when I come out of a 2xFF the box will reset an additional 5 seconds - always.


You'd lose that bet.

Having said that, a patent doesn't just automatically prevent anyone from implementing your invention. It provides proof of your invention should you attempt to negotiate (by far the more common outcome) and/or take them to court. There are other things in the R15 that are patented by TiVo, so I really doubt this is the reason autocorrect isn't there (but it's as good a reason as any, because I can't come up with any other reason for leaving it out).

I wouldn't expect TiVo to sue or push DirecTV on anything until their relationship is truly over (sometime in 2007 is when the current agreement is out). Else they may trade royalties for the autocorrect invention for the service fees they currently get.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

walters said:


> You'd lose that bet.
> 
> Having said that, a patent doesn't just automatically prevent anyone from implementing your invention. It provides proof of your invention should you attempt to negotiate (by far the more common outcome) and/or take them to court. There are other things in the R15 that are patented by TiVo, so I really doubt this is the reason autocorrect isn't there (but it's as good a reason as any, because I can't come up with any other reason for leaving it out).
> 
> I wouldn't expect TiVo to sue or push DirecTV on anything until their relationship is truly over (sometime in 2007 is when the current agreement is out). Else they may trade royalties for the autocorrect invention for the service fees they currently get.


Well the Patentbeing granted doesn't mean it will stand up either. If someone else can prove prior art (in this case that they did it before Tivo) then the patent could be revoked.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Kanyon71 said:


> Well the Patentbeing granted doesn't mean it will stand up either. If someone else can prove prior art (in this case that they did it before Tivo) then the patent could be revoked.


Hense the definition of a Patent. Not sure of your point here. NDS or some other entity was working on this before Tivo?


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> Hense the definition of a Patent. Not sure of your point here. NDS or some other entity was working on this before Tivo?


I don't know what NDS was working on. My point was I think others had these sort of features before Tivo, so if they sued someone else would just need to prove Prior Art and the suit would be useless and the Patent overturned.


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## mphare (Nov 15, 2005)

Also, if TiVo does have a patent and others are in violation, they must defend the patent as soon as they know of the infringement. If they fail to attempt to defend the patent even once, they would loose it.

They can't wait for the deal to be over between themselves and DTV. Unless there is a 'right to use' that expires in 2007, TiVo needs to defend their patents now.


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## mphare (Nov 15, 2005)

Kanyon71 said:


> I don't know what NDS was working on. My point was I think others had these sort of features before Tivo, so if they sued someone else would just need to prove Prior Art and the suit would be useless and the Patent overturned.


Which was kinda my point, something as general as a constant 5 second FF/RWD compensation would be difficult to prove original idea. Now the algorithm for a self-learning FF/RWD compensating-compensator would be patentable.


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## SLOmike (Dec 13, 2005)

Here is a poll on Tivo Community on this exact topic.

The results showed that 2/3s of TivoCommunity members polled used 30 second skip all the time.

not enought posts here to leave a url.

the original post was by SLOmike and the title was "How many of you use 30-second skip? ". Date of the original post was 7-19-2004

-Mike


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## byron (Nov 15, 2004)

i guess im in the minority as far as these forums are concerned... i've tried the 30 second skip on my DTiVos and i hated it. it was never as reliable for FF'ing commercials as the 3x FF and timing it perfectly. plus, i don't like the fact that when 30 sec skip is turned on, i loose the 'skip to tick/end' button.


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

mphare said:


> Also, if TiVo does have a patent and others are in violation, they must defend the patent as soon as they know of the infringement. If they fail to attempt to defend the patent even once, they would loose it.


You're thinking of trademark.


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

mphare said:


> Which was kinda my point, something as general as a constant 5 second FF/RWD compensation would be difficult to prove original idea.


The patent *is* such proof. If anyone believes otherwise, the burden to prove that is on them, not TiVo.

BTW, anyone playing along at home desiring to deprive TiVo of their claims in this regard, you need to find something prior to March 30, 1999.


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## Ken Howe (Aug 9, 2005)

mphare said:


> I only champion the R15 because it works well enough for, and it's the future for DTV, so I suspect it to only get better.


Herm... seems to me that when you hit rock bottom you can only go up...


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## RCY (Nov 17, 2005)

the-sloth said:


> i guess im in the minority as far as these forums are concerned... i've tried the 30 second skip on my DTiVos and i hated it. it was never as reliable for FF'ing commercials as the 3x FF and timing it perfectly. plus, i don't like the fact that when 30 sec skip is turned on, i loose the 'skip to tick/end' button.


Even with 30 second skip enabled, if you start a FF or REW, the "skip to tick" button works, taking you to the next tick in the direction you were going. (Forward in the case of FF, Backward in the case of REW)

I have observed that the 30 second skip is not something people are lukewarm about. You either love it, or you really don't.


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## byron (Nov 15, 2004)

RCY said:


> I have observed that the 30 second skip is not something people are lukewarm about. You either love it, or you really don't.


seeing as how the feature is on its way out the door (i can't see directv adding support for this)... i'll continue disliking it so i don't get used to it and then have to live without it.


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

This time a year I like the FF as otherwise you miss all the great holiday beer commercials. Three cheers for the Clydesdales.


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## tall1 (Aug 9, 2005)

the-sloth said:


> i guess im in the minority as far as these forums are concerned... i've tried the 30 second skip on my DTiVos and i hated it. it was never as reliable for FF'ing commercials as the 3x FF and timing it perfectly. plus, i don't like the fact that when 30 sec skip is turned on, i loose the 'skip to tick/end' button.


You must not watch any football. Even hockey and basketball are more enjoyable to watch using the 30 sec skip. If I didn't watch alot of sports I probably wouldn't miss the 30 sec skip much on my Tivo because the FF overshoot correction (I love that kinda talk) works so damn perfectly. But on the R15 the FF/RW is a disaster and coupled with no 30 sec skip it makes watching sports on the thing very frustrating.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

the-sloth said:


> i guess im in the minority as far as these forums are concerned... i've tried the 30 second skip on my DTiVos and i hated it. it was never as reliable for FF'ing commercials as the 3x FF and timing it perfectly. plus, i don't like the fact that when 30 sec skip is turned on, i loose the 'skip to tick/end' button.


I cannot see how someone doesn't like the 30 sec skip. 2 minute commercial, 4 hits of the button, 3 minute 6, 4 minute 8. Then maybe 1-2 7 second backups. How is that not reliable?

Skip to tick or end? I've never used that? Why would one want to skip 15 minutes or to the end?


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## tall1 (Aug 9, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> I cannot see how someone doesn't like the 30 sec skip. 2 minute commercial, 4 hits of the button, 3 minute 6, 4 minute 8. Then maybe 1-2 7 second backups. How is that not reliable?
> 
> Skip to tick or end? I've never used that? Why would one want to skip 15 minutes or to the end?


I use skip to tick in 15 min increments on Tivo to watch a guest on Letterman/Leno etc. Skip to end? Nevah miss it. In the rare case I want to get to the end quickly I simply hit skip to tick a few more times. By the way, does the R15 have skip to tick?


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

tall1 said:


> I use skip to tick in 15 min increments on Tivo to watch a guest on Letterman/Leno etc. Skip to end? Nevah miss it. In the rare case I want to get to the end quickly I simply hit skip to tick a few more times. By the way, does the R15 have skip to tick?


OK, I love the 30 second and use FFx3 to get to the end or skip 15 minutes. Plus with the compensation using FF I pretty much get where I'm aiming.


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