# Tired of "Searching for Satellite...771"!!!!!



## 996911

So I had been getting this occasional "Searching for Satellite" but this is just getting crazy now. Signal levels seem to be fine as I posted just recently screen shots of my signal levels which are really good. It seems to ONLY be just a handful of the HD channels. Is this something that is going to corrected is it just the way it is? Really not impressed right now. Sorry for the rant, but I'm just a bit frustrated as I want to watch the Cavs/Spurs ballgame and can't!

TIA for any comments or pointers!

Cheers,

ps. here's the thread when I posted my signals......
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=114167


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## tonyd79

I think you need to have DirecTV come in.

Something is not right with your installation.

Which HD channels are having the problem? Should be a set of ESPN/ESPN2/TNT/UHD/HDNet or the "new ones" like FOOD/TBS/NFL/USA.

The previous are MPEG2 on different satellite than the latter which are MPEG4.

And what is your installation? How many boxes, how are they wired?


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## 996911

Just starting happening but the installation was a month or so before football season started.

Why would it "just" be the HD channels?

The one's I am having trouble with are:
TNT (but working now), HD Theater (but it's working now), HBO HD (but working now).....

I give up. So they are working now? This is amazing. Sometime they work, sometimes they don't and it's ONLY just a small number of the HD channels.

Weather blows right now here in the Raleigh area. Had a "winter advisory" this morning but no slow or ice.

Again, thanks for being patient with my frustration and offering up your comments :goodjob: 

**oops** just realized I didn't answer your question.

Install is a HR20 (HD DVR) with 2 tuners (2 cables right from the dish directly into the box). Past that I have no idea.

I just took a set of digital pics of all the sat levels like from my other thread that I can post up if that helps.


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## blc

996911 said:


> Just starting happening but the installation was a month or so before football season started.
> 
> Why would it "just" be the HD channels?
> 
> The one's I am having trouble with are:
> TNT (but working now), HD Theater (but it's working now), HBO HD (but working now).....
> 
> I give up. So they are working now? This is amazing. Sometime they work, sometimes they don't and it's ONLY just a small number of the HD channels.
> 
> Weather blows right now here in the Raleigh area. Had a "winter advisory" this morning but no slow or ice.
> 
> Again, thanks for being patient with my frustration and offering up your comments :goodjob:
> 
> **oops** just realized I didn't answer your question.
> 
> Install is a HR20 (HD DVR) with 2 tuners (2 cables right from the dish directly into the box). Past that I have no idea.
> 
> I just took a set of digital pics of all the sat levels like from my other thread that I can post up if that helps.


I have had similar problems with the 110 sat channels on tuner 2 only. So depending on which tuner I am hitting for a particular channel, it may or may not come in. When the problem occurs, how are your 110 signals for each tuner?


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## 996911

Only 3 transponders on 110 (rest are "N/A") and the three signals are 93, 89, 95.


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## K4SMX

But you need to check _both_ tuners 1 and 2 on satellite 110 while you're having the problem.


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## 996911

Thanks Stew. Quick question, why would I need to check both tuners? Wouldn't I be watching on tuner 1 unless something is recording? Sorry if that sounds like a newb question but I might not understand exactly how these things operate.


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## K4SMX

No, it's always alternating.


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## Indiana627

996911 said:


> The one's I am having trouble with are:
> TNT (but working now), HD Theater (but it's working now), HBO HD (but working now).....
> 
> Weather blows right now here in the Raleigh area. Had a "winter advisory" this morning but no slow or ice.


Those channels you listed all come off the 110 sat. And you mentioned bad weather - we had 60+ mph gusts here last week and blew my dish slightly out of alignment. When the wind died down, my picture was fine, but when the wind picked up again I had problems. I had D* come out on Saturday and realign and then tighten down my dish again. Turns out the guy who installed it in June didn't tighten all the bolts. My gut feeling is you might be in the same boat.


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## ddrumman2004

I have had "momentary" signal loss with the searching for satellite signal on random channels, not just the HD channels. It only lasts for a second or so than all is normal. Happens mostly at night but not often. 
Almost like something blocks the LNBs. 

My dish is at the end of my house and mounted on the old Primestar dish pole and the closest big tree is 200 feet away.


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## MIMOTech

Hi Just as you all have been getting the 771 message, so have been getting it, and it took a few months of investigation, but I found the answer to the problem. Seems that the 5 LNB dish has water leaks. If you examine the dish you will see seems in the plastic coverings around the LNBs. They allow moisture to enter the switch part of the 99, 101, 103 LNB. Now funny thing is this only affects the HR20 and none of my other STBs including the H20 that I have. There must be some SW routine doing something that causes the one of the tuners in the Hr20 to shut down. But the proof is that when ever it rained the HR20 would loose a tuner and not be able to tune various transponders and channels. I sealed the seems and do not have the 771 problem anymore.


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## teebeebee1

For a guy with a problem you sure aren't very open minded to suggestion

How about you take a sledgehammer to your tv, we won't have to listen to you challenge every possible fix anymore


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## fusion04

teebeebee1 said:


> For a guy with a problem you sure aren't very open minded to suggestion


To me, his 'why' questions seem to be about wanting to learn more about how things work (and how they break sometimes).


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## MarkN

996911 said:


> So I had been getting this occasional "Searching for Satellite" but this is just getting crazy now. Signal levels seem to be fine as I posted just recently screen shots of my signal levels which are really good. It seems to ONLY be just a handful of the HD channels. Is this something that is going to corrected is it just the way it is? Really not impressed right now. Sorry for the rant, but I'm just a bit frustrated as I want to watch the Cavs/Spurs ballgame and can't!
> 
> TIA for any comments or pointers!
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> ps. here's the thread when I posted my signals......
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=114167


been having same problem here for last couple months...have posted my problem here with little help


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## Canis Lupus

Post your signal strengths for all your SATS, and include readings for both tuners.


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## Farsight

I have had a similar problem with just the MPEG2 HD channels (ESPNHD, HBOHD, etc). I believe this is a software issue with the HR20, as tuning to another channel and then back to the channel with a weak/no signal completely fixes the issue.

What seems to be happening is that when one tuner is left on a MPEG2 HD channel for a long period of time (I often record long programs on those channels, like the 4-hour Mike & Mike show on ESPN2), the reciever develops a problem tuning those channels in (it doesn't harm the recording though). Tuning to one of those channels will produce a "Searching for signal" error and/or completely corrupt screen (like it has been chopped up into small squares which have been scrambled). Once the tuner is forced to tune something else in, the problem is fixed and doesn't recur while watching the channel, ever.

I've pretty much adapted to working around this defect, and figure I'll just live with until the MPEG2 HD channels are gone, as this -never- occurs on the SD or newer HD channels. Since the HR20 has a number of known issues (occasionally it loses the ability to properly use "crop" mode on SD until a reset is performed, occasionally when using the Sunday Ticket channels the interactive features crash the guide/menus entirely until a reset is performed, etc), I've just figured this is one of the quirks of the new software.

Although I'd love to see a software update eliminate some of these, if possible.


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## Canis Lupus

You probably want to do the same as suggested above. When the problem occurs, check the signal strengths for both Tuner 1 and 2 to see if they are far apart in strength. Could be alignment, cabling, or a bad Tuner.


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## blc

I have posted this on a couple of other threads with similar issues. Any help or theories of the cause is greatly appreciated.

After an unplug and reboot, and switching cable and bbc between tuners, here is the result. I was right about keeping the signal meters on the 101, 110, or 119 and it not causing tuner 2 to have problems. I kept the signal meter charts up for about 10 minutes switching between tuner 1 and 2 on 101, 110, and 119. All signals remained in the 90's on the transponders that are necessary (a couple of non-used are lower but don't matter). 

However, after then finally goint to the 103(b) signal meters, Tuner 1 did great but Tuner 2 had a drop on a few of the 103(b) signals of 2-8 points. Then when I switched back to 110 and 119, Tuner 2 was clearly having issues. The 119 dropped a few points on Tuner 2 and ts23 dropped down to 59 from 95 (and ts25 that is not used as far as I know went to 0). The 110 on tuner 2 dropped to 48, 61, and 52 from 95's earlier.

Thus, the issue clearly presents once the tuners are directed to the new mpeg4's on 103(b). As I have been able to repeat this scenario twice now. That is, no problems with signal meters staying on 101, 110, and 119 after a hard reset. But once the 103(b) signals are tested, Tuner 2 drops points on the 103b (still all above 80) and drops significantly on some of the 110 and a few 119 transponders.

It appears that Tuner 2 cannot recognized the signals or is having some type of interface issues after being tuned to the 103b.


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## tonyd79

996911 said:


> Install is a HR20 (HD DVR) with 2 tuners (2 cables right from the dish directly into the box). Past that I have no idea.


Okay. No OTA on either line? And only the one box. I was checking to see if you had OTA diplexed in but that would be an issue for the newer channels, not TNT. Also, was making sure you didn't have any splitters int the line which could lead to erratic behavior.

Follow the advice of others here. When you see the problem, go immediately to the satellite strength screens and check both tuners. In fact, the error message should tell you which tuner is having the problem. They do alternate in their usage and you cannot force one over the other.

If you see the problem is consistent with 1 tuner or the other, try swapping the lines into the DVR. If the problem moves, it is somewhere from your dish down to the DVR. If the problem does not move, it is probably a problem in the DVR itself and you need to get it replaced.

If the problem moves from one tuner to the other when you swap the lines at the DVR, you can swap them at the dish if you can reach it easily. If the problem swaps again, then the dish is the issue. If it does not swap, then the problemis the line.

If the problem is not consistent on one tuner, it may be your dish (water in the LNB is often the cause).

Good luck.


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## trekologer

I was having a similar problem and I was thinking that I had a bad tuner. At the time I didn't have a separate multiswitch; my receivers were connected directly to the LNB outputs (and its built in multiswitch). DirecTV came out, installed a multiswitch (I needed one anyway to add in my other receivers), and I haven't had a problem since. You could have a bad multsiwtch (standalone or the one built into the LNB). In any case, you probablly need DirecTV to come out there and check out your setup.


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## Skooz

This happens to me from time to time ONLY on History Channel HD.

Signal strengths on both tuners fine, all other HD channels coming in fine.

I just figured it will get fixed eventually.


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## DrummerBoy523

I've re-booted the box at least 15 times in the past month. Everytime it rains - heavy or light - I get the 771. It snowed a few nights ago and I lost the receiver entirely. Of course, my SD DirecTivo never lost signal at all the entire time. I called D* and spent 75 minutes on the phone with a tech and we tried everything - flipping the cables, rebooting, you name it. I even went outside and brushed off the snow from the dish. After 7, yes 7 reboots in one night - the machine FINALLY came on and found the sats. D* is sending a tech out since I'm within the 90 day window and they gave me a $10/mnth credit for 6 months for my troubles as well. I'm not sure what the problem is exactly - but I'm tired of losing the sats every time the wind blows basically!!


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## bigsnack

I am also having this problem. My install is a 5LNB dish, with an HR20. Only one tuner is affected.


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## blc

Here is something interesting. To try to force Tuner 2 to do the work and see if that made a difference, I decided to unplug the unit and disconnect the input for Tuner 1 and put that cable and bbc on Tuner 2 and repower without Tuner 1 connected. As usual, Tuner 2 had good readings on 101, 110, 119 until I went to the 103(b) signal meter chart (those were in the 80's and 90's). When I returned to 110, I got zero's for Tuner 2 (and Tuner 1 since it was disconnected). Sat 119 had readings in the 60's to 70's for Tuner 2. But for some reason Tuner 1 (disconnected) was showing readings on the even 119 transponders as well as the even 103(b) transponders (most pretty good).

How is this possible? Is it normal for readings to show on a disconnected tuner? Is SWM enabled on this unit even though I don't have a SWM switch?


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## sharpmibo

"771" for months on all of my HR20's (6). Sometimes the new HD stations, sometimes the MPEG2's on the 70's. D* out three times, move dish, realign dish, replace lnb and cables to dish. None worked. A week ago I installed a polarity locker as suggested elsewhere in this forum (HRPID1422) from www.solidsignal.com.

For one week now I have not had a single problem. Maybe not long enough to be sure but I am hopeful this has solved my problem.


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## papa_azteca

sharpmibo said:


> "771" for months on all of my HR20's (6). Sometimes the new HD stations, sometimes the MPEG2's on the 70's. D* out three times, move dish, realign dish, replace lnb and cables to dish. None worked. A week ago I installed a polarity locker as suggested elsewhere in this forum (HRPID1422) from www.solidsignal.com.
> 
> For one week now I have not had a single problem. Maybe not long enough to be sure but I am hopeful this has solved my problem.


Can you post a picture of your installation that includes this polarity locker? We are about upgrade my brother's home and I want to know if this more realiable than using high frequency splitters to cascade two 6*8s.


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## sharpmibo

I'll try to get a picture later today. Don't cascade the 6*8's, use power passing splitters. There is a diagram on the solid signal site www.solidsignal.com for the HRPID1422. This is exactly how I set up my site. Note the power requirement for the polarity locker. This is the splitter I used http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=SP2WAPHL


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## sharpmibo

papa_azteca

Here is the link for the polarity locker http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=HRPID1422


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## rinren

I discovered the moron installers did not tighten the bolts to the dish. So what I did was call my cell phone from my house phone from the TV with the longest run. Turned on the signal meter and adjusted my dish until I got the fastest signal. I also sprayed the dish with PAM, as I read somewhere, and I have yet to get any 771 messages. or interruptions.

GO PATS!


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## 187therapy

MIMOTech said:


> Hi Just as you all have been getting the 771 message, so have been getting it, and it took a few months of investigation, but I found the answer to the problem. Seems that the 5 LNB dish has water leaks. If you examine the dish you will see seems in the plastic coverings around the LNBs. They allow moisture to enter the switch part of the 99, 101, 103 LNB. Now funny thing is this only affects the HR20 and none of my other STBs including the H20 that I have. There must be some SW routine doing something that causes the one of the tuners in the Hr20 to shut down. But the proof is that when ever it rained the HR20 would loose a tuner and not be able to tune various transponders and channels. I sealed the seems and do not have the 771 problem anymore.


Do you have any pics of the LNB after you sealed it?
I have the exact same problem.


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## newsposter

blc said:


> I have had similar problems with the 110 sat channels on tuner 2 only. ?


just found this thread and wanted to add my name to the list of 110 tuner 2 only issues. I have an extensive thread on my issue

http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1249312&postcount=34


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## 187therapy

Have you tried sealing your LNB?


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## saleen351

I have the same problem. I just wait and flip back to the channel and 99% of the time it's fixed...


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## jefbal99

I get this occasionally on my H20, but not on my HR20.

Happened a bunch this morning, all sats would go to 0 for a bit, then come back a min or two later


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## 187therapy

I am going to try sealing my LNB but I have to wait for it to dry up outside,
In the meantime I might order a Sonora DirecTV Slim Line / AT9 and Phase III 1A power inserter 5 to 2400 MHz (HRPID1422).


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## newsposter

187therapy said:


> Have you tried sealing your LNB?


i dont have a ladder that high. but it amazes me that the 2 hdtivos can be fine but this hr20 not. What kind of design is that? Also as tuner 1 has always been fine on hr20 i dont think lnb can be my problem right?


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## bt-rtp

I recently replaced a SD TiVo with a refurbished HR20-100 in my study. It also suffered from the "searching for signal" problem. I already have the Sonora polarity locker / power supply installed.

The HR20-100 was shipped without any BBCs so I used an old pair that I had kept in a spare parts box my garage. These were BBC version 2 units.

I solved my problem by replacing the BBCs with new version 3 units. You can order them for free from DirecTVs web site.



996911 said:


> So I had been getting this occasional "Searching for Satellite" but this is just getting crazy now. Signal levels seem to be fine as I posted just recently screen shots of my signal levels which are really good. It seems to ONLY be just a handful of the HD channels. Is this something that is going to corrected is it just the way it is? Really not impressed right now. Sorry for the rant, but I'm just a bit frustrated as I want to watch the Cavs/Spurs ballgame and can't!
> 
> TIA for any comments or pointers!
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> ps. here's the thread when I posted my signals......
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=114167


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## jefbal99

bt-rtp said:


> I recently replaced a SD TiVo with a refurbished HR20-100 in my study. It also suffered from the "searching for signal" problem. I already have the Sonora polarity locker / power supply installed.
> 
> The HR20-100 was shipped without any BBCs so I used an old pair that I had kept in a spare parts box my garage. These were BBC version 2 units.
> 
> I solved my problem by replacing the BBCs with new version 3 units. You can order them for free from DirecTVs web site.


Where on the D* site can you order the BBCs? I'm having trouble locating it. I have ver 2 BBCs and would like to try a ver 3 on the H-20 that is giving the 771s


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## bt-rtp

You have to login to your account, then use this URL:

http://directv.qrs1.net/bbc/bbcForm.jsp



jefbal99 said:


> Where on the D* site can you order the BBCs? I'm having trouble locating it. I have ver 2 BBCs and would like to try a ver 3 on the H-20 that is giving the 771s


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## 187therapy

Thanks for the link, I ordered two BBC's tonight. I hope this will fix my problem.
Like your favorite links on grounding as well.
The BBC's will arive in 10-14 days. I will post if it is a fix or not.
Thanks again.


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## jefbal99

187therapy said:


> Thanks for the link, I ordered two BBC's tonight. I hope this will fix my problem.
> Like your favorite links on grounding as well.
> The BBC's will arive in 10-14 days. I will post if it is a fix or not.
> Thanks again.


Same thing, I ordered 3 just to have two on hand for my HR20 if they go bad


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## 10SE

I have had two LNB replacements over the last 8 months for the exact same issue. Both times, the replacement fixed the problem.

In my case, if tuner 1 was on an mpeg 2 channel, tuner 2 would lose signal. If tuner 1 was mpeg 4, tuner 2 signal was fine. 

This last time, the tech tried replacing my HR20... tried replacing my multi-switch... tried replacing my BBC's... even tried blaming the routing of the cable through my house. LNB replacement immediately fixed the problem, after he'd wasted almost two hours doing all that other stuff. I tried to tell him. LOL


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## ecr72

When I got home tonight I had some HD channels down. Some national like 296 (TOONHD) and some spot beam like 654-1 (FSBA-HD). I check both HR20's and I have the same problem on both. I reset one of them and the problem persists. I check signal strength and I'm reading 0 on 103b odds only, both tuners. 103b evens read strong on both tuners. A quick check of ch 480 confirms the odds are toast, ch481 confirmed the evens are good. After searching some of the threads it sounds like the issue is probably with my LNB or multiswitch connections. Does it sound like I'm on the right path here???

It's too late now but I'll probably go out and check the connections for tightness and moisture tomorrow afternoon. If that doesn't work, I'll get a tech out since I have the service plan for things like this.


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## jefbal99

ecr72 said:


> When I got home tonight I had some HD channels down. Some national like 296 (TOONHD) and some spot beam like 654-1 (FSBA-HD). I check both HR20's and I have the same problem on both. I reset one of them and the problem persists. I check signal strength and I'm reading 0 on 103b odds only, both tuners. 103b evens read strong on both tuners. A quick check of ch 480 confirms the odds are toast, ch481 confirmed the evens are good. After searching some of the threads it sounds like the issue is probably with my LNB or multiswitch connections. Does it sound like I'm on the right path here???
> 
> It's too late now but I'll probably go out and check the connections for tightness and moisture tomorrow afternoon. If that doesn't work, I'll get a tech out since I have the service plan for things like this.


The HD RSN is CONUS, not spot beam


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## ralphfurley

Ive been having the same issue with a refurbished HR20. No issue at all with my main HR20. (no signal on tuner 1, just fine on tuner 2)

It happens on HD and SD channels ( NickW). Reset has fixed the problem.


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## foozed

This is frustrating as hell! 
I just rejoined DTV after being on Cable for the past 2 years .. I wanted to enjoy NFL ticket and all the HD channels..

So - got an H20 - no problems.. got a d10 in the bedroom.. no problems..
got a used hr21 from some guy on craigslist.. looks brand new.. problem surfaced on night 1.
It was OK when I activated and the HD's came in.. now its like EVERY channel..

this sucks!!!

However.. this morning I noticed the problem did follow the lnb from 1 to 2 when I swapped 1 and 2 in the back - so maybe I'll try one of the other direct runs and see how it goes.


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## jefbal99

My BBCs arrived yesterday, I swapped out the Rev 2 that I had on my H20 and will keep an eye on it over the next few weeks/months.


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## pdjplano

996911 said:


> So I had been getting this occasional "Searching for Satellite" but this is just getting crazy now. Signal levels seem to be fine as I posted just recently screen shots of my signal levels which are really good. It seems to ONLY be just a handful of the HD channels. Is this something that is going to corrected is it just the way it is? Really not impressed right now. Sorry for the rant, but I'm just a bit frustrated as I want to watch the Cavs/Spurs ballgame and can't!
> 
> TIA for any comments or pointers!
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> ps. here's the thread when I posted my signals......
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=114167


not sure if you got your problem fixed, but mine is similar and described here: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=119013


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## 187therapy

I recieved my BBC's Rev 3 yesterday but have not changed them out because I have not seen the problem in a few day. It has also not rained/snowed in the last few day. I am going to wait for the problem to show again before I change BBC's and note the weather conditions.


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## 187therapy

Still have not seen the 771 problem again.
I check my sat signals daily and always have a low strength on sat 2 satellite 110.
It is always in the low 40's. If I disconnect the BBC from sat 2 and then reconnect it the strength goes up to mid 90's. This is the only problem area I see among all the satellites on both turners. I am sure if it was to rain a bit sat in 2/110 would drop out quick and I would see 771.


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## cookpr

i too have this issue randomly on mpeg4 HD - i think its an hr20 software issue, as it goes in streaks..was really bad when i got the hr20 in oct 06....was fine for the past 6-7 months...noticed with the past two software updates, its back...just randomly will lose mpeg4 hd's....usually only lasts a fe minutes - but destorys recordings....its totally random...


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## blc

187therapy said:


> Still have not seen the 771 problem again.
> I check my sat signals daily and always have a low strength on sat 2 satellite 110.
> It is always in the low 40's. If I disconnect the BBC from sat 2 and then reconnect it the strength goes up to mid 90's. This is the only problem area I see among all the satellites on both turners. I am sure if it was to rain a bit sat in 2/110 would drop out quick and I would see 771.


You are not the only one with a problem on the 110 on tuner 2. There have been several others with the same problem, including myself. I have come to the conclusion that it is a software glitch or a conflict on certain accounts that is causing a switching problem in the lnb. At any rate, I've learned to live with it. I have fine tuned my dish such that the signal normally is high enough to not cause a problem with the 110 channels. I have also noted the problem on a couple of transponders on the 119 that I do not require for my programming (so I those on the 119 don't really matter to me).


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## 187therapy

I am thinking of buying a polarity locker.
Out of everything I have read this has helped most people.
Really don't want to spend the money and have it not work though.


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## saleen351

I had to unplug my box, it wasn't working correctly and now I get this message all the timeeeeeeeeeee!!! argggg!


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## NO1B4ME

Wow i have this same problem. I am glad I am not alone.. LOL


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## bsprague

I had that problem with a HR20. Don't remember the number after the dash. 

Techs came 5 times in 3 days. They started with the b-band boxes. Every time they changed something it would work until they left. I ended up with new LNBS, new crimp connections, dish alignment, etc. 

I started taking digital pictures of the screen to show the returning tech what transponders were or were not working. A pattern developed suggesting tuner 2 had intermittent problems, but only on one of the satellites.

The HR20 was replaced by an HR21 and all issues went away. All five service calls, new LNBs, new converters and new tuner were covered under the "Protection Plan".


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## 187therapy

Called tonight for tech to come out and fix the problem.
Cant get here until feb 23


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## bsprague

187therapy said:


> Called tonight for tech to come out and fix the problem.
> Cant get here until feb 23


I didn't have that problem. They came quickly.


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## 187therapy

I decided that instead of spending$50.00 on a polarity locker I should make DTV come out and fix the problem. No matter how may service calls I have to make once the first tech come out I will not let up unitl the problem is resolved.


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## bsprague

187therapy said:


> I decided that instead of spending$50.00 on a polarity locker I should make DTV come out and fix the problem. No matter how may service calls I have to make once the first tech come out I will not let up until the problem is resolved.


Intermittent problems like you have are frustrating for both the customer and the tech. If you have a digital camera, start taking pictures of the TV, including signal strengths, before the service call. Then, if the receiver is working when the tech arrives, you have something he/she can work with.

The contractor that services my account is called Ironwood. It took them 5 visits to change enough parts before they isolated the problem. The first tech said that Ironwood suffers financial penalties if D* has to create multiple work orders for the same problem. Work orders are created when you call DirecTV and they in turn call Ironwood. The tech's preference was that I call him or his dispatcher if I needed to get them back. The second tech gave me his personal cell phone number. They kept all five visits under one work order.

My suggestion is to ask the tech what he wants you to do if the problem returns after his repair call. In my case I got much faster service on the series of tech visits. My guess is he will prefer you call him, not D*.


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## capdood

Count me in as another customer HATING this problem. As someone mentioned, it makes it impossible to count on your scheduled HD Channel recordings. Nothing is more frustrating than to come home to watch a much anticipated recorded program -- only to find that nothing recorded. So do I ask DTV for a new LNB, ask for the tech to seal my dish, demand an HR21, seek out a polarity locker??? This is STUPID for the amount of $$ I pay every month. There are too many of us with this problem for DTV to ignore. WHERE DO WE GO WITH THIS PROBLEM? To Cable or Dish? My family is at their wits end -- and so am I!


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## bsprague

Capdood,

Call DirecTV. Tell them your problem. Intermittent is difficult for all. There are several potential problems. It is a complex piece of consumer electronics. 

Since it is intermittent, take digital pictures to show the tech when he gets there. Figure out how to find the signal strength page under the setup menu so that you can record the signal strengths on the various transponders. When it is working take those pictures too. If you turn on the time/date stamp for your camera it can show the tech that it "comes and goes". 

When the tech comes to your house he will try to fix one or more of the possible variables. He could get it right on the first try. But, in case he doesn't ask him what to do if the problem returns. 

Try to be a proactive helpful customer. Don't be an angry one. DirecTV really does have 16,000,000 customers. Most like it! Yours will work.


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## capdood

bsprague said:


> Capdood,
> 
> Call DirecTV. Tell them your problem. Intermittent is difficult for all. There are several potential problems. It is a complex piece of consumer electronics.
> 
> Since it is intermittent, take digital pictures to show the tech when he gets there. Figure out how to find the signal strength page under the setup menu so that you can record the signal strengths on the various transponders. When it is working take those pictures too. If you turn on the time/date stamp for your camera it can show the tech that it "comes and goes".
> 
> When the tech comes to your house he will try to fix one or more of the possible variables. He could get it right on the first try. But, in case he doesn't ask him what to do if the problem returns.
> 
> Try to be a proactive helpful customer. Don't be an angry one. DirecTV really does have 16,000,000 customers. Most like it! Yours will work.


Thank you for your calming advice, Bsprague. However, with SO many customers experiencing this same exact problem on HD Channels, you would think that the complexity and "puzzle" would have been solved by DTV technical experts by now. And rather than leave the solving of this problem to each individual technician (too many that I encountered who possess marginal problem solving skills -- or motivation), would it not seem reasonable for DTV to have issued written directions to techs nationwide on how to address this problem in a progressive, meaningful way when reported? It certainly is affecting enough customers as measured by the small sample reporting here.

I, for one, have had this issue for over a year and a half -- across my HR-10, before they installed a third Dish, before they replaced all my wires and connectors, and now steadily with my HR-20. I LOVE DTV when it works, but I can honestly say that in the three years since I started receiving HD programming, I have not had 3 consecutive months where the service worked problem free.

Where I was once greeted with "You are one of our very best customers" (I subscibe to almost every sports package offered and am and auto pay customer), I now get snappy responses from CSR's when I ask for compensation for my problem service. As I tell them, I would love the day when I get NO additional compensation for DTV failings. All I want -- and have every wanted -- was the great program delivery that DTV advertises, and that I pay for.

Is that really too much to ask and expect?


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## bsprague

capdood said:


> Thank you for your calming advice, Bsprague. However, with SO many customers experiencing this same exact problem on HD Channels, you would think that the complexity and "puzzle" would have been solved by DTV technical experts by now.....I, for one, have had this issue for over a year and a half .....I can honestly say that in the three years since I started receiving HD programming, I have not had 3 consecutive months where the service worked problem free.


With all due respect, the nature of this board would be to attract the customers that are disgruntled. If 2,000 posted here of their troubles, that would be 0.0125% (That is not 1 percent, that is one hundredth of one percent.) If it were 1%, then 160,000 customers would be having trouble and DirecTV would know there was a systemic problem. This board would be a lot bigger than it is! You and I (until they replaced my receiver) had unique problems.

If I had months of bad service and couldn't get it fixed, I would do what I did ten years ago. For reasons never solved, I couldn't get clear cable reception. So, I switched to DirecTV. I was an early adopter and loved it!

Recently I had cable in a brand new condo because it came wired that way. It worked well and I enjoyed the roll out of their version of VoD. It worked so well, that I wouldn't hesitate to switch back to Comcast if there were too many gremlins in my DirecTV subscription, service or receivers.

The truth is that I am one of a seldom discussed DirecTV market segment. I'm mobile. I don't have a clue how many are in this segment. On a single account, I have three permanently installed receivers. None have ever seen a phone line. One of which is in a very comfortable bus sized motorhome with a really cool $2000 automatic antenna on the roof. I am not "fooling" DirecTV. Somewhere in their computer is a block check off as "Mobile Account". I am billed each month for the "DNS" service and they have a signed application for a "waiver".

In my market segment are also a lot of customers with cabins or even fixed income mothers-in-law that have an extra receiver away from the primary service address. These may be "cheating" a little but justify it by saying they can only watch one TV at a time. Many even carry their receiver from their primary residence to their RV, cabin or boat only to carry it back at the end of the vacation.

Long haul truckers do it too! Check the truck stops.  You will see dishes clamped to the mirrors at night.

We all order our "Pay per Views" on the wireless web or by cell phone. Until, or unless, DirecTV disables receivers NOT connected to the phone, this market segment will thrive. With the ongoing switch away from wired phone lines to cell service, I doubt DirecTV will do this.

Short version? I am with DirecTV because I have a special use I enjoy. If you can't find what is making your receiver malfunction and you don't have a special use, switch. Comcast does have good TV!


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## capdood

bsprague said:


> If you can't find what is making your receiver malfunction and you don't have a special use, switch. Comcast does have good TV!


Believe me, if I could live witout the NFL Package I would have switched LONG ago (do you know what it is like to love football and to be sentenced to watching only the 49ers and Raiders every week?).

This HD Channel problem is just nonsense.


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## bsprague

capdood said:


> Believe me, if I could live witout the NFL Package I would have switched LONG ago (do you know what it is like to love football and to be sentenced to watching only the 49ers and Raiders every week?).
> 
> This HD Channel problem is just nonsense.


I don't know how the box works. But, it appears there are two tuners in each box. Each tuner has parts for each transponder attached to circuit boards. My theory is that they made and installed a lot of boxes before the last satellite launched. Some had some parts that intermittently cut in and out. Mine wasn't noticed until 103(a) [or maybe it was 103(b)] started to transmit and my receiver only received it intermittently on tuner 2. Document and take pictures! Give the information to DirecTV and let them decide what to fix.

Sorry about your football addiction. Somewhere I read about a guy with 6 each 42 inch LCDs, 6 separate HR-20s and all were installed in his single "TV Room". He could sit in his chair and switch between 2 games on each TV. Somehow his brain could keep track of 12 games at once.


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## anleva

newsposter said:


> just found this thread and wanted to add my name to the list of 110 tuner 2 only issues. I have an extensive thread on my issue


I too have a problem with tuner 2 on 110. Tuner 2 shows readings much lower than tuner 1 (which are great) on 110 and some other satellites as well. I got the 771 message today on TNT when a recording was in process on Tuner 1.


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## K4SMX

anleva said:


> I too have a problem with tuner 2 on 110. Tuner 2 shows readings much lower than tuner 1 (which are great) on 110 and some other satellites as well. I got the 771 message today on TNT when a recording was in process on Tuner 1.


Try removing the BBC from tuner 2 altogether and observe your 110 signal strengths. If they are up in the 90's and no longer intermittent, I recommend you try several different BBC's on that tuner. I have an HR whose tuner 2 on 110 doesn't play well (40-50's) with BBC's that work fine on other HR's (90's), but with _no_ BBC that tuner works just fine (mid-90's). I finally found a BBC that at least gives 110's in the 70-80's.

If your tuner 2 doesn't work correctly on 110 with no BBC and you've isolated the problem to tuner 2 by swapping antenna lines to no effect, you're going to need another receiver.


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## anleva

K4SMX said:


> Try removing the BBC from tuner 2 altogether and observe your 110 signal strengths. If they are up in the 90's and no longer intermittent, I recommend you try several different BBC's on that tuner. I have an HR whose tuner 2 on 110 doesn't play well (40-50's) with BBC's that work fine on other HR's (90's), but with _no_ BBC that tuner works just fine (mid-90's). I finally found a BBC that at least gives 110's in the 70-80's.
> 
> If your tuner 2 doesn't work correctly on 110 with no BBC and you've isolated the problem to tuner 2 by swapping antenna lines to no effect, you're going to need another receiver.


Thanks for your help. Here is some additional information:

1) I first tried switching the cables between tuner 1 and tuner 2 and did a RBR on my receiver. The numbers ended up being the same as before, that is the 110 numbers on tuner 2 were much worse than 110 on tuner 1. Tuner 1 was in the 90's. Tuner two was in the 50's.

2) I disconnected the BBC as you suggested and the tuner 2 numbers then were as good as tuner 1 across the board on 101, 110 and 119. No difference between the two.

3) After reconnecting the BBC and immediately checking the signal strength there was no difference between tuner 1 and tuner 2 on 101, 110 and 119. All had high signal strength. However...

4) After changing some channels and going to MPEG4 channels as a previous poster mentioned, I checked my signal strength on tuner 2 and it had dropped back down as before and the strength numbers were worse than tuner 1.

So is this then a bad BBC? A software glitch? Bad receiver? Much of the time the tuner 2 numbers are in the low 70's (though in the 90's for tuner 1) and when that's the case there are not usually 771 errors. However with bad weather I'll see the 771 errors on tuner 2.

What would you recommend as my next steps?

Thanks!


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## K4SMX

More BBC's. I went through 6 of them to get 70's and 80's on a tuner 2 that works just fine without one at all. I don't really understand it myself. There's some type of glitch in the software/hardware in some these tuners that make them go screwy on 110 when you hook a BBC up to them.

The worst I had were the Rev. 3's (black) that shipped with the receiver. They effected both tuners, but tuner 2 was the worst, down in the low 40's. Tuner 1 was in the high 50's, and that was high enough to work - barely. With no BBC's, both tuners were in the mid-90's with identical signal strengths. I finally found a particular set of Rev. 2's (gray) from a one year old HR20-700 that were the best, 70's-80's, and got me back operational.

Not that we'll be needing 110 that much longer.....


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## lparsons21

Is it only the HR20's that are affected with this 110 w/bbc issue?

I'm waiting for a replacement of my receiver after the service call last Friday, and if the problem is something screwy between some HR20s & BBCs, then I'm hoping they send a HR21 instead. The reason for the HR20 initially no longer exists since my local market was turned on to HD just prior to the install. I even told the tech that it didn't matter which receiver I was sent.


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## anleva

Thanks for your advice! I ordered a couple of BBCs and hopefully that will do the trick. It is a strange issue. I sent an email to DirecTV with as much detail as I could on the problem, hopefully they will have a solution. I'll let you know what I hear.


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## K4SMX

lparsons21 said:


> Is it only the HR20's that are affected with this 110 w/bbc issue?......I'm waiting for a replacement of my receiver after the service call last Friday, and if the problem is something screwy between some HR20s & BBCs, then I'm hoping they send a HR21 instead.


I have 3 HR20-700's without this issue and one HR21 with the issue.


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## lparsons21

K4SMX said:


> I have 3 HR20-700's without this issue and one HR21 with the issue.


Bummer!

But that leads back to the design and interfacing of the BBC and the receiver. I noted when doing my troubleshooting, that the BBC was using RG-59. Which, coupled with the seemingly constant switching of BBCs that some are doing, makes me think that use of RG-59 is an indication of a poorly designed and/or implemented piece.


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## K4SMX

I wouldn't be concerned about the RG59 going into the BBC. 75 ohms impedance is 75 ohms. I'd be concerned about what going on _in_ the BBC.

I need to crack one of these open. They obviously draw a fair amount of current (putting additional load on the HR2x P.S.'s), because they run warm to the touch.


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## lparsons21

K4SMX said:


> I wouldn't be concerned about the RG59 going into the BBC. 75 ohms impedance is 75 ohms. I'd be concerned about what going on _in_ the BBC.
> 
> I need to crack one of these open. They obviously draw a fair amount of current (putting additional load on the HR2x P.S.'s), because they run warm to the touch.


I'm not concerned that it is there, other than nowhere else in satellite TV do they use RG59. There must be a reason for that. Also, the connector is slightly different than is on the cable coming from the Sat antenna. You can only get a very few turns on the connection to the back of the receiver from the BBC. I've wondered if it is a poor connection?

But what makes this particular issue so peckish, is that it seems to have been there since the HR20 hit the market. Doesn't seem to affect many, going by the reports here, but it is an extremely irritating problem that shouldn't exist at this point in time which is a year+ since introduction.

I can work around it a bit by judicious use of recording and live to set up the right channel on the right tuner, but it is the nighttime recordings that I can't control as well, when I've gone to bed.

This is just slightly less irritating than the problem on the Dish Vip622 when they first came out, the random reboot issue. Went through that for a few months and you never hear of it now. In that same timeframe, the HR20 has this problem from the 1st day and it is still there. That's the most irritating part of the issue.


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## blc

anleva said:


> Thanks for your help. Here is some additional information:
> 
> 1) I first tried switching the cables between tuner 1 and tuner 2 and did a RBR on my receiver. The numbers ended up being the same as before, that is the 110 numbers on tuner 2 were much worse than 110 on tuner 1. Tuner 1 was in the 90's. Tuner two was in the 50's.
> 
> 2) I disconnected the BBC as you suggested and the tuner 2 numbers then were as good as tuner 1 across the board on 101, 110 and 119. No difference between the two.
> 
> 3) After reconnecting the BBC and immediately checking the signal strength there was no difference between tuner 1 and tuner 2 on 101, 110 and 119. All had high signal strength. However...
> 
> 4) After changing some channels and going to MPEG4 channels as a previous poster mentioned, I checked my signal strength on tuner 2 and it had dropped back down as before and the strength numbers were worse than tuner 1.
> 
> So is this then a bad BBC? A software glitch? Bad receiver? Much of the time the tuner 2 numbers are in the low 70's (though in the 90's for tuner 1) and when that's the case there are not usually 771 errors. However with bad weather I'll see the 771 errors on tuner 2.
> 
> What would you recommend as my next steps?
> 
> Thanks!


Glad to see that someone else was able to repeat the drop on 110 after first going to the MPEG4 channels. At least we know that it is repeatable on someone else's receivers as well. It also appears that it is not a problem specific to a particular model number of receivers, as some have posted that the 771 error returns even after switching to an HR21. This leads me to suspect some type of authorization on certain accounts is causing a conflict that remains specific to these accounts regardless of receiver. Also, like myself, others have replaced the LNB only to have the problem still occur. Most people experience the problem and note that it seems to come and go, when in reality they may not be hitting the right channels for the corresponding transponders between tuner 1 and tuner 2. At any rate, I have gotten my dish tuned in well enough to get a signal on the 110 transponders in the 80ish range after first hitting that satellite with tuner 1. If I go straight to tuner 2 after first tuning to MPEG4 following a reboot, tuner 2 will be upper 60's. However, when I then test tuner 1 (all upper 90's) and go back to tuner 2, the signals bounce up about 10-12 points. So this can cause the low tuner 2 signals to almost be unnoticable most of the time if tuner 1 hits these transponders first.

I am a 72.5 locals subscriber (but dont's have a 72.5 hooked up and don't care to watch the locals as I have dns) and have thought that this might be causing the issue in the internal LNB switch (I have no other multiswitch because more than 4 lines are not needed for my 2 HR20's). It is obvious that it is not a bad tuner on these receivers because the tuners CAN work fine, they just don't after tuning to an MPEG4 channel and then returning to the problem transponders. Also, the tuner 2 works fine on both receivers when operated without a BBC.

I hope someone can solve the problem because Dtv denies it exists and has no interest in any solution other than shipping additional receivers.


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## lparsons21

During my troubleshooting, I found that while on the signal meters screen, with 110 picked as sat, I have a signal on tuner #1, but none on #2. Without leaving the screen, I could disconnect the tuner #2, reconnect and then I had signal. I can reproduce this every time.

Of course, it doesn't last when you go and switch channels around, and when I come back to the signal meter screen, 110 Tuner #2 is again showing no signal.

This tells me that the problem is NOT RF, but is voltage/current related. By 'shocking' the connection with disconnect and reconnect, and getting signal back, that says that for whatever reason, tuner #2 isn't doing the switching or whatever the hell it is supposed to, properly.

The big question is then = WHY? Tuner #1 stays solid, so what is the difference between the 2 tuners that causes it.

If you are indeed correct, that Direct is denying the problem exists, then it won't ever get fixed. But since some of them read here, and surely the techs talk among each other, that is hard to believe.


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## gquiring

I joined the 771 club tonight. Switched channels a few times and it went away. This sure seems like a bug to me.


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## lparsons21

I got the new HR20 today to replace the one with the 771 error on tuner #2, sat 110.

Sadly, no help at all. Fiddled with the BBCs, no joy. 

I could disconnect the BBC from tuner #2 and reconnect and signal came back. I could cause the signal to drop off on 110/tuner 2 by going to Sat 103(c) and then back to 110. Everytime I did that (after getting 110 back on #2), it would kill the signal on 110 tuner 2.

Something is seriously screwed with something about the design, implementation of the design, specs or tolerances in these boxes that is cause some of us to have this issue while others claim not to.


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## sharpmibo

I am almost afraid to say this, but I have been problem free for almost one week now. Replaced my stacked 6x8's with a 6x16. Have had no searching for 771 or the heavy pixelization of my HD locals. Jury is still out because I have had some short periods without problems, up to 3-4 days. Will report back later.


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## K4SMX

lparsons21 said:


> I got the new HR20 today to replace the one with the 771 error on tuner #2, sat 110.
> 
> Sadly, no help at all. Fiddled with the BBCs, no joy.....
> 
> .....Something is seriously screwed with something about the design, implementation of the design, specs or tolerances in these boxes that is cause some of us to have this issue while others claim not to.


There's some as yet unspecified interaction between the software, tuner 2, and the BBC. It doesn't appear to effect other receivers connected to the same installation, so it's apparently unrelated to anything past the BBC.

I established that at least in my case this interaction is variable, depending on the BBC, in that I finally found a BBC (#6) that worked OK (albeit 10 pts down from _no_ BBC), with the rest of the BBC's providing 110 tp strengths which varied from unusable (40's) to sort of OK (70's).

In all instances I've seen reported here, tuner 2 works just fine on 110 with no BBC attached.


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## 465657

I hate to chime in on this discussion so late, but I have had 771 issues with the 70's HD Channels as well as 501 (HBOHD). The problem was initially with an HR20 only on tuner 2. When you first start the receiver or reboot, the signals are fine. After some time goes by, I get readings on 110 in the 40-60 range. Some of the 119 get weaker too. Directv rep came out, replaced receiver, still same issue. Reran cables and used grounding block and the problem seemed to go away (while he was there), but returned shortly afterwards. I didn't call back as I did not want to mess with the system during football season since the Sunday Ticket games weren't affected. Now I have the same problem on a H20 600 receiver on the same channels. The Sat check shows the same weak signals as the HR20 Tuner 2. A reboot of the H20 provides signals in the 90's. Again, this only lasts so long. When it gets warm out, I was gonna rerun all new lines, regound the system inside so its weatherproof, and see what happens. The more I have been thinking about this, I think I should start with a new LNB. Does anyone agree with this? My thinking is that the original LNB was bad and that it is just getting worse with time. A problem that affects two receivers should be dish/lnb related. Any thoughts? Thanks.


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## MarkN

maybe its just me but it seems like there has been 100% increase in "searching for signal' complaints since the new HD channels came out........


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## K4SMX

****** said:


> I..... The more I have been thinking about this, I think I should start with a new LNB. Does anyone agree with this? My thinking is that the original LNB was bad and that it is just getting worse with time. A problem that affects two receivers should be dish/lnb related. Any thoughts? Thanks.


You may have a separate problem with your H20-600. There are multiple reports of problems with reception on those from overheating. Try putting a laptop "chill pad" upside down on top of it to draw the heat out of it. You can plug it in to the USB port on the -600.

As best I can determine, this is not an LNB problem, since at least in my case, the problem does not occur with other HR's on the same LNB, and my HR's are wired straight to the dish. You're certainly welcome to experiment in that regard, however. The more anecdotal information the better on this one.


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## blc

I replace my LNB in early January. Problem still there.


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## bwaldron

MarkN said:


> maybe its just me but it seems like there has been 100% increase in "searching for signal' complaints since the new HD channels came out........


A lot of people had alignment issues from previous installs that were good enough for 101/110/119 but not the new bird.

Some existing cables/connectors turned out to be dodgy with the new frequencies.

There appeared to be issues with some problem BBCs.

There may be some receiver /DVR software issues related to the problem, when people see it very intermittently and it is fixed via a reset (just my opinion).


----------



## newsposter

****** said:


> My thinking is that the original LNB was bad and that it is just getting worse with time. A problem that affects two receivers should be dish/lnb related. Any thoughts? Thanks.


you are 'lucky' that it affects 2 receivers. but recabling everything sounds like a real pain. My tuner 2 issue is only with the hr20 and my 2 hdtivos always have great signals so i just put the 110 recordings on the tivos. Obviously in my case it has nothing to do with cables or dish alignment, it's the bad tuner


----------



## tritch

I like others have been dealing with this tuner 2 issue on satellite 110 for some time now. I've tried replacing both BBC's with rev 3, no help.

My installation consists of 2 brand new Belden 1694a cables run directly from the Slimline to the BBC's attached to a HR20-100. There's no WB68, no splices or anything else between the dish and receiver (roughly 40 feet long). There's nothing wrong with the dish alignment or any other part of the installation.....but the problem persists. The signal strength on all satellites and transponders are 90-100. As others have reported, anytime you tune to a channel on the 103 bird (or use the signal strength meter via the setup menu), the signal strength on all 3 transponders on the 110 drop to 0 or some other low reading on tuner 2 only. There's nothing you can do to recover the signal strength unless you 1) reboot the receiver, 2) physically disconnect and reconnnect the tuner 2 cable or 3) remove the BBC. Once you tune to any channel on the 103 bird again, you're basically hosed for all the HD channels on the 110 if you happen to hit tuner 2 when changing channels.

Some have reported changing the LNB with no help at all. Others have replaced the receiver, it's helped some but not everyone. There's also one member (K4SMX) who's had to try a 6 different BBC's just to get a decent signal level, albeit still a low level.

This anomaly is very baffling. Poster K4SMX and I have discussed to some extent the problem in another thread, and I tend to agree with him that it has something to do with a certain mix of BBC and receiver combinations. It still could be software issue, but the latest release of 0x1FE has done nothing to fix it. If it were a software issue, I'm inclined to believe the problem would be much more widespread.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with my installation and others in this thread, but Directv refuses to "officially" acknowledge or explain the problem....very disappointing. 

I'm a little surprised that no one who has some inside knowledge to this anomaly has spoken up??

Right now, I'm living with the issue until Directv decides to convert and move the 9 HD channels off the 110 to one of the newer satellites. Hopefully, this will be sooner than later!

Out of curosity, has anyone who's had this particular problem installed a SWM8 recently? If so, did the problem go away?


----------



## Keane

tritch said:


> If it were a software issue, I'm inclined to believe the problem would be much more widespread.


It very well could be a bigger issue than thought. I've had the same problem, but have only followed this thread while looking for a solution.


----------



## K4SMX

tritch said:


> .....There's also one member (K4SMX) who's had to try a 6 different BBC's just to get a decent signal level, albeit still a low level.
> 
> This anomaly is very baffling. Poster K4SMX and I have discussed to some extent the problem in another thread, and I tend to agree with him that it has something to do with a certain mix of BBC and receiver combinations.....


*Edit-Disregard completely all that follows. I just did a Menu > Restart Recorder after parking both tuners on 110, tp 8. When the re-start was complete, I went straight to the 110 signal meters and Voila! - all 90's. Not quite as good as no BBC's, but definitely in the low 90's. Then I went to the 103(c) s.s. page and right back to the 110's. Boom! - back in the 70's. I'm in the same boat as everyone else. So maybe changing BBC's will at least help to some extent. And both tuners here are effected, tuner 1 by 10 pts. and tuner 2 by 25 pts. And that's after going through 8 BBC's.

Two other facts here: an HR20-700 on the same antenna lines shows none of this 110 tuner 2 bug, and I have changed LNB's since all this began from a WNC Rev. 1 to a Rev. 4.

As mentioned below, however, I'm still interested in knowing whether others can trigger this by tuning in 99(s). I have all zero's on 99(s).*

After reflecting on this a bit more, I'm thinking my particular case is possibly related, but not identical to the rest of these pretty much identical reports.

In my case, changing to a 103(s) or (c) and then to 110 does _not_ cause the numbers to vary at all. Both my tuners show a substantial drop in reported 110 signal strengths when BBC's are attached _period_. However, it is true that tuner 2 is _always_ about 10 points weaker than tuner 1 with a BBC attached. And with no BBC's attached, both tuners are rock solid in the mid-90's, with nearly identical signal strengths on all 3 tp's. That part _does_ match what others are reporting.

Even though I went through a bunch of BBC's and finally found a pair that worked sort of OK on 110 with both tuners, I'm beginning to doubt that all the folks with the "previous tuning of 103 triggering effect" would notice the improvement swapping BBC's that I noticed. Otherwise someone would have reported that by now.

I'm also asking any who have 99(s) locals to check to see if that also triggers the problem of the disappearing 110's on tuner 2. I'm thinking it may not be a 103 trigger, but rather an mpeg4 trigger.


----------



## blc

K4SMX said:


> *Edit-Disregard completely all that follows. I just did a Menu > Restart Recorder after parking both tuners on 110, tp 8. When the re-start was complete, I went straight to the 110 signal meters and Voila! - all 90's. Not quite as good as no BBC's, but definitely in the low 90's. Then I went to the 103(c) s.s. page and right back to the 110's. Boom! - back in the 70's. I'm in the same boat as everyone else. So maybe changing BBC's will at least help to some extent. And both tuners here are effected, tuner 1 by 10 pts. and tuner 2 by 25 pts. And that's after going through 8 BBC's.
> 
> Two other facts here: an HR20-700 on the same antenna lines shows none of this 110 tuner 2 bug, and I have changed LNB's since all this began from a WNC Rev. 1 to a Rev. 4.
> 
> As mentioned below, however, I'm still interested in knowing whether others can trigger this by tuning in 99(s). I have all zero's on 99(s).*
> 
> After reflecting on this a bit more, I'm thinking my particular case is possibly related, but not identical to the rest of these pretty much identical reports.
> 
> In my case, changing to a 103(s) or (c) and then to 110 does _not_ cause the numbers to vary at all. Both my tuners show a substantial drop in reported 110 signal strengths when BBC's are attached _period_. However, it is true that tuner 2 is _always_ about 10 points weaker than tuner 1 with a BBC attached. And with no BBC's attached, both tuners are rock solid in the mid-90's, with nearly identical signal strengths on all 3 tp's. That part _does_ match what others are reporting.
> 
> Even though I went through a bunch of BBC's and finally found a pair that worked sort of OK on 110 with both tuners, I'm beginning to doubt that all the folks with the "previous tuning of 103 triggering effect" would notice the improvement swapping BBC's that I noticed. Otherwise someone would have reported that by now.
> 
> I'm also asking any who have 99(s) locals to check to see if that also triggers the problem of the disappearing 110's on tuner 2. I'm thinking it may not be a 103 trigger, but rather an mpeg4 trigger.


Glad to see another has been able to replicate. If enough people with 110 problems would try to replicate this easy test, it might show how widespread the issue really is.


----------



## FarNorth

Something wierd is going on with these boxes........

I have an HR21 in on my main tv, an H20 in another room. Yesterday, the H20 dropped 2 of the 4 MPEG4 network feeds. Signal strength at 94% and NBC and CBS came through fine but no Fox or ABC. Tested all the sat signals, everything is fine but blank screen on those 2 channels, 397 and 399. I rebooted and things came in but slow.

I went out and brushed off the snow, cleaned, lubed and tightened all the connections. I knew the box had been disconnected so I let it "find" everything on its own. 397 and 399 missing again - no error message, just a blank screen. Rebooted and they came up. No idea why - all 4 should be on the same sat and the transponders are all way up in strength. 

FWIW, all of the MPEG 2 channels in the 80s came in fine the entire time.


----------



## Keane

Since this issue doesn't seem to have a good solution yet, has anyone spoken with DTV and received anything in return? A free new box? Credit twards the HD service? Anything? 

Just looking to see if it's worth the hassle of going through CS to try anything? From what I gather, the issue is really caused by DTV, but they won't admit to it yet. It's really starting to irk me that I'm loosing random access to half of my HD channels and the majority of my recordings are now dead space on the DVR. I'm also getting sick of my wife calling me at work everyday *****ing about how she had to reboot the box.


----------



## oldcrooner

Keane said:


> Since this issue doesn't seem to have a good solution yet, has anyone spoken with DTV and received anything in return? A free new box? Credit twards the HD service? Anything?
> 
> Just looking to see if it's worth the hassle of going through CS to try anything? From what I gather, the issue is really caused by DTV, but they won't admit to it yet. It's really starting to irk me that I'm loosing random access to half of my HD channels and the majority of my recordings are now dead space on the DVR. I'm also getting sick of my wife calling me at work everyday *****ing about how she had to reboot the box.


I had this issue intermittently for many weeks....seems to be cleared up now (crossing my fingers) after Directv assigned it a special case number and sent a tech out. He replaced the HR20-100 I had with an HR21-700, also replaced the LNB and re-did the setup's grounding system. My problem primarily centered around losing several of the Mpeg 2 HD channels in what seemed a random fashion. Rebooting would temporarily clear things up but then revert back to being problematic in a few hours. I'm not sure the tech really knew what was causing the problem but said he was going to do everything he knew to set things right. It's been several days since he was here and everything has been OK so far. (Prior to the replaced HR20-100, I had an HR20-700 which was replaced due to what appeared to be a defective tuner 2 and another HR20-700 that made loud popping noises when recording HD.  ). There was no charge for the new HR21 and the CS rep involved with this also gave me 3 free months of one of the movie channels as compensation. I certainly hope everything remains OK as all this hassle has been going on since last November and I was really sick of it. I've been with D* since 1999 and had never experienced this much trouble.


----------



## lparsons21

My problem is verified to be a receiver problem, even though I'm on receiver #2 now. My local installer came over with his demo HR20 and hooked it up to my BBCs and cables and all sats on all tuners worked like they are supposed to.

Direct is sending me another receiver which will be fine if it fixes the issue, if it isn't they are probably going to be more insistent about sending out their tech. The problem with that is that their tech isn't any better than the one I'm using, but if they send theirs, then they stiff my local installer out of some money. I'm not happy with that situation because the local guy is a friend and has done all that can be done.

The problem in my instance IS a bad reciever.

Question, can I hook up the new receiver and have it download the latest firmware and test it before getting it authorized?

I ask that because if the new one does just like the one I have now, I'd rather not switch receivers and go through all the hassle of setting up my recordings and links, not to mention the movies and stuff I've already recorded.


----------



## Seabow

I've had no problems with my HR20 for nearly a year, then suddenly I got the 771 error message on tuner 2 for only HD channels. I isolated my problem to a bad BBC and had directv send me two new ones. I know others have had different reasons for the 771, but in my case, changing the BBC solved the problem. It's been a couple of weeks now and the problem has not returned. (knock on wood)


----------



## K4SMX

lparsons21 said:


> .....Question, can I hook up the new receiver and have it download the latest firmware and test it before getting it authorized?
> 
> I ask that because if the new one does just like the one I have now, I'd rather not switch receivers and go through all the hassle of setting up my recordings and links, not to mention the movies and stuff I've already recorded.


Since we know that you can test all the satellite signal strengths without activation and then test for the "HR20/21 Satellite 110 Tuner 2 Bug" merely by bringing up the 103(c) signal strength grid, it would seem logical that you should be able to check for this problem without activation. When the 101's come up, page > to the 110's first. Then go < < to the 103(c)'s and back > > to the 110's. (Check both 110 tuners each time!)


----------



## 187therapy

DTV Tech should be here today between 12 and 4.
I have not seen the 771 today but my input 2/sat 110 is in the low 40's which is causing channel breakup.
Well see what happens today. I would like to get an HR21.


----------



## lparsons21

K4SMX said:


> Since we know that you can test all the satellite signal strengths without activation and then test for the "HR20/21 Satellite 110 Tuner 2 Bug" merely by bringing up the 103(c) signal strength grid, it would seem logical that you should be able to check for this problem without activation. When the 101's come up, page > to the 110's first. Then go < < to the 103(c)'s and back > > to the 110's. (Check both 110 tuners each time!)


Thanks for the info. I wasn't sure I was remembering right. I've done so much swapping of gear and resetting, I've lost count.

I've found that I can work around this problem by judicious picking of channels to record, but it is a PITA and I shouldn't have to. This is not a new problem as I've seen some threads that go back a lot of months. Direct has to be aware of the issue and should have fixed it already.

Because it doesn't affect everyone with an HR20, it seems to me it has to be in some sloppy specs or allowable tolerances. Reading between the lines a bit, it seems that the HR20 was designed to use a SWM and the BBCs are used instead because of cost or availability of SWMs. Maybe they really shouldn't have cut that particular corner.


----------



## K4SMX

I don't really understand the exact cause of this issue either. It's quite clear that the percentage of effected receivers is not that large, but that's still potentially a _lot_ of receivers. In my case, it's one out of four HR's. Considering that we're talking about all HR models, it extends over quite a manufacturing time period and a large number of software upgrades. If I'm not mistaken, however, the tuner chip is the same in all model HR's. As to why it's primarily tuner 2 which is effected, that's a mystery. (Both my tuners are effected, but tuner 2 is much worse, like everyone else.)

It appears that these receivers will have to be replaced _and retired_. I can't see them replacing the tuner chips in these as part of the "re-manufacturing process," whatever that means these days. These receivers need to be identified and taken out of circulation (although they'll probably work in SWM installations), unless there's some software glitch that can be specifically identified as effecting only certain tuner chips. These chips may have been manufactured by more than one source. The DirecTV engineer beagles should be able to chase this rabbit to ground.

Whenever I return a receiver, I tape a notice on it describing what I think is wrong with it. Whether that does any good or not, who knows.....


----------



## anleva

This whole issue is confusing as to cause. For me I checked signal strength on all satellites and for both tuners 1 and tuners 2. The issue is only with tuner 2 on sat 110. For this tuner/sat combination tuner 2 averages 15-25 points lower than tuner 1. Typically tuner 1 is in the mid 90's and tuner 2 is then in the low 70's. When this is the case there really isn't a problem, but under certain conditions the delta is greater and/or tuner 2 drops to numbers in the 50's and this is when I would start receiving a 771 error message.

Here is my situation:

1) Issue is only with the tuner 2/sat 110 combo. Signal strength on others tuner/satellites combinations is the same.

2) Switching tuner 1/tuner 2 cabling does not change things. The issue is still signal strength on tuner 2/sat 110 is 15-25 points lower.

3) Unplugging the BBC on tuner 2 and direct connecting results in the same tuner 1/tuner 2 readings for sat 110. Bad BBC? IF so I would have expected #2 above to have made some sort of impact but it didn't.


Given this it doesn't seem to me that this is a HR20-100 receiver issue. Maybe a BBC issue but if so I would have expected #2 to have some impact and it doesn't. I'm guessing it's a firmware/software issue. Tuner 2 is as good as tuner 1 for me except when connected through a BBC and looking at satellite 110. 

This is a strange issue. Hopefully DirecTV is taking ownership of solving it. I called it in and escalated it, maybe that will do something. I declined having a tech come out for now as it really doesn't seem like a receiver replacement is in order given my circumstances.


----------



## lparsons21

If this 3rd receiver I'm getting on Monday doesn't fix the issue, then I'll be joining the 'escalation parade' to get something done about it. The more I read, the more convinced that it really is an HR20-100 issue more so than any other HDDVR. There may be a few other models that have a very slight smattering of these issues, but the big, and seemingly growing, number of HR20-100s that have this issue makes me think it is just this one model from this one manufacturer.

I don't actually care why, I don't care which HDDVR they send me to fix the issue or any other thing. I want it fixed. I'm getting tired of talking about it here and with directv, and I know the local installer I use is getting tired of hearing from me also.


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## BKC

I'm on my 3rd HR20 in the first 90 days for this issue. For what it's worth, this receiver is black instead of silver and the BBC's are gray instead of black and it's been fine for about three or four weeks. Might not mean a darn thing, but so far it works. lol


----------



## blc

anleva said:


> This whole issue is confusing as to cause. For me I checked signal strength on all satellites and for both tuners 1 and tuners 2. The issue is only with tuner 2 on sat 110. For this tuner/sat combination tuner 2 averages 15-25 points lower than tuner 1. Typically tuner 1 is in the mid 90's and tuner 2 is then in the low 70's. When this is the case there really isn't a problem, but under certain conditions the delta is greater and/or tuner 2 drops to numbers in the 50's and this is when I would start receiving a 771 error message.
> 
> Here is my situation:
> 
> 1) Issue is only with the tuner 2/sat 110 combo. Signal strength on others tuner/satellites combinations is the same.
> 
> 2) Switching tuner 1/tuner 2 cabling does not change things. The issue is still signal strength on tuner 2/sat 110 is 15-25 points lower.
> 
> 3) Unplugging the BBC on tuner 2 and direct connecting results in the same tuner 1/tuner 2 readings for sat 110. Bad BBC? IF so I would have expected #2 above to have made some sort of impact but it didn't.
> 
> Given this it doesn't seem to me that this is a HR20-100 receiver issue. Maybe a BBC issue but if so I would have expected #2 to have some impact and it doesn't. I'm guessing it's a firmware/software issue. Tuner 2 is as good as tuner 1 for me except when connected through a BBC and looking at satellite 110.
> 
> This is a strange issue. Hopefully DirecTV is taking ownership of solving it. I called it in and escalated it, maybe that will do something. I declined having a tech come out for now as it really doesn't seem like a receiver replacement is in order given my circumstances.


I have found that I can get those lower numbers when I first tune to the 110 with tuner 2 following an MPEG4 103 channel. The numbers will boost up to the upper 70's if tuner 1 hits the 110, either first or at any time thereafter. For some reason having tuner 1 hit the 110 transponders will give a 10-12 point boost on those tuner 2 numbers. But they are still only in the upper 70's or 80ish range at that point when they are at their highest.

It may be that this issue is more prone on the HR20-100s receivers as the other poster states. As I have stated, I purchased a second one and it also has the same issue. I agree that the second tuner seems to be as capable as the first and does great without a bbc connected. It will also performs just fine after a reboot and no 103 intervening channel tuning. Thus, the tuner may be fine and it may be some software problem. Like you state, if there was truely a problem with the second tuner (hardware-wise) it would not function under these 2 narrow conditions in which it clearly CAN operate flawlessly.


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## lparsons21

BKC said:


> I'm on my 3rd HR20 in the first 90 days for this issue. For what it's worth, this receiver is black instead of silver and the BBC's are gray instead of black and it's been fine for about three or four weeks. Might not mean a darn thing, but so far it works. lol


Well hopefully the 3rd time's the charm! 

I don't care if what they send me is painted hot pink and dances the boogaloo while changing channels if it does all it is supposed to do relatively trouble-free. Hell, if they told me painting a smiley face in day-glo orange on the dish would fix it, I'd break out the paintbrush!


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## BKC

That's my thinking too!


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## DanER40

My problems started about a month ago. Some HD locals (usually KCAL9) would just be a black screen. It only affected the HR21, not my HR20. Signal strengths were fine on all sats, transponders and tuners. Beginning yesterday, I am getting the 771 message. It comes and goes and happens on either tuner.

I've had the HR21 almost 3 months now and have recently (12 months free we thought) added the protection plan. Is the install of my HR21 still under warranty? The problem only happened once a week or so (with the black screen) so I never call DTV about it. I am now worried it will get worse.


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## innovamage

For those exp the problem, this is somewhat of a fix. When the 771 error pops up on a channel, hit menu -> setup -> system setup -> Sat & Ant -> View Signal Strength. Let it run for a second then go back to the channel that you were exp the problem. For me this will allow the channel to be viewed. Note i have a HR20-700, so i'm not sure if this will work with the other models. Sorry if this has been posted. This started recently for me so i'm thinking it has something to do with the software or changes on their end, but who knows. Let me know if this works for other people.


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## 187therapy

I ended up with a new HR20-100 and two new BBC's today.
Have not seen the problem yet.
DTV Tech told me that I do not get any channels off of sat 110.
I asked him then why where some of my channels going out at the same time as my sat in 2 /110? He could not answer that.
I will watch it for a few days now and see how it holds up.


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## bwaldron

187therapy said:


> DTV Tech told me that I do not get any channels off of sat 110.


Unbelievable.


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## newsposter

lparsons21 said:


> My problem is verified to be a receiver problem, even though I'm on receiver #2 now. My local installer came over with his demo HR20 and hooked it up to my BBCs and cables and all sats on all tuners worked like they are supposed to.


I hope that really does solve your problem because i can have my hr20 receive the signal on tuner 2 a lot of the time but sometimes not...and just fiddling around sometimes makes it come back. sometimes not. I guess you will be back here posting if the new receiver doesnt solve it though


----------



## Cobra

I have been having this problem also on my hr-100, only channel 206 and 73, espn, its intermittent, not constant, usually when I want to watch something lol. Doing a soft reboot fixes the problem sometimes, fewer then not. I have the black bbc's, even ordered new ones and put them on, didnt make a difference


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## franknd

I had this problem forever in my HD receiver only and then determined that it was caused by having a diplexer in the line for the receiver (non-HD) that _didn't_ have the problem. Running a dedicated line solved the problem, though it still never made sense to me why having a diplexer in the other line caused the problem.
. . . Anywho, it's now back again in the last several weeks, after about 4-5 months of being problem free. So I'm back to square one. :grin: In my case it happens in the kids channels, the 290s, which aren't HD. Haven't detected it elsewhere yet.


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## K4SMX

franknd said:


> I had *this problem*......


The 771 message has a variety of causes, almost all of which are installation-related, i.e., dish alignment, LNB's, cables, connectors, multi-switches, etc. Less frequently they are due to receiver problems. Recently we've been discussing the rather unusual situation of a 771 message which is clearly _not_ installation-related, but rather software/receiver related, the so-called "HR20/21 Satellite 110 Tuner 2 Bug," whereby none of the HD channels on the 110 satellite can not be received on Tuner 2. These are the 70's channels, except 72 & 79 (not on 110).


----------



## 187therapy

I still have not seen the 771 problem yet.
My sat in 2 strength on 110 is still not as high as turner 1.
With this new HR20 sat 2/110 is in the mid 70's where on the old HR20 it was in the low 40's. I still think sat 2 should match or at least be close to the same as turner 1.
My setup is a slim dish, with 2 RG-6 lines approx 10' that run under the overhand of the porch, a barrel connector on each line as it connects to RG-6 lines that run into the attic direct to a wall plate in the living rm and connects to barrels on the faceplate. Then two 1' RG-6 lines from the wall plate to the BBC's.
My slimline is only running a single HR20. I keep my other IRD's on the old dish.


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## lparsons21

newsposter said:


> I hope that really does solve your problem because i can have my hr20 receive the signal on tuner 2 a lot of the time but sometimes not...and just fiddling around sometimes makes it come back. sometimes not. I guess you will be back here posting if the new receiver doesnt solve it though


Yes, I will report back. But since I have used a known good receiver (HR20-700) in this installation and everything works like it is supposed to, it is the HR10-100s that I have had. 2 and counting...

This AM things were a bit different. We got snow last night and all my signals were in the high 40's. Strangely with those low signals, all tuners on all sats were showing up fine. Maybe I need to get a snow machine or use rusty cables! :lol:


----------



## blc

187therapy said:


> I still have not seen the 771 problem yet.
> My sat in 2 strength on 110 is still not as high as turner 1.
> With this new HR20 sat 2/110 is in the mid 70's where on the old HR20 it was in the low 40's. I still think sat 2 should match or at least be close to the same as turner 1.
> My setup is a slim dish, with 2 RG-6 lines approx 10' that run under the overhand of the porch, a barrel connector on each line as it connects to RG-6 lines that run into the attic direct to a wall plate in the living rm and connects to barrels on the faceplate. Then two 1' RG-6 lines from the wall plate to the BBC's.
> My slimline is only running a single HR20. I keep my other IRD's on the old dish.


Then what you are saying is that, in reality, your problem with tuner 2 is not truely fixed either--just better. That is the readings on my tuner 2 sat 110 also, upper 70's to low 80's. I do not have 771 errors for the most part and have not lost any recordings. As stated several times the interplay of tuner 1 first hitting the 110 sat will give a boost to the tuner 2 readings (thereby making the lower signals on tuner 2 not cause 771 errors although the signals are lower than tuner 1).

However, the signal drop between the readings on tuner 1 and tuner 2 are clearly there and Directv needs to address the cause. Or said differently, its time some people on the forum with their inside connections rattle Directv's cage and get them to admit the issue and begin solving the problem rather than continually denying that it exists.


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## 187therapy

blc said:


> Then what you are saying is that, in reality, your problem with tuner 2 is not truely fixed either--just better.
> 
> True.
> I would like to try a polarity locker and see what turner 2/110 strength is then.
> But I dont think I will spend the money for that.


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## jefbal99

Since switching out the Rev 2 BBC with a Rev 3 for my H20-600, I have not seen any 771's


----------



## wxguy

We're new to this Directv stuff, but my daughter's HR21-700 is having trouble getting some of these MPEG4 channels. We did a signal strength check on satellite 103(c) and on tuner 1 the odd numbered transponders were 0 and the even ones about like what I get. Switch to tuner 2 and everything looks fine.

Does this sound like the same problem others have detailed in this section? I guess she could just call Directv support, but I'm not sure that gets anyone anywhere without wasting a few hours. 

Anyone have a debug sequence we could do to see where the problem is, or are we stuck waiting for a tech to show up sometime.


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## K4SMX

wxguy said:


> We're new to this Directv stuff, but my daughter's HR21-700 is having trouble getting some of these MPEG4 channels. We did a signal strength check on satellite 103(c) and on tuner 1 the odd numbered transponders were 0 and the even ones about like what I get. Switch to tuner 2 and everything looks fine.
> 
> Does this sound like the same problem others have detailed in this section? I guess she could just call Directv support, but I'm not sure that gets anyone anywhere without wasting a few hours.
> 
> Anyone have a debug sequence we could do to see where the problem is, or are we stuck waiting for a tech to show up sometime.


First, if this installation is less than 90 days old, any service call should be free.

Please try swapping just the antenna lines, not the BBC's, and see if the problem (no odd tp's on 103(c)) moves from tuner 1 to tuner 2. If so, there's most likely a loose/bad connector in that line somewhere between the receiver and the dish. Remove each connector with a 7/16" wrench and look inside the connector to make sure there's no coax braid shorting out the center conductor. Then re-tighten until just snug.

If the problem stays with tuner 1, try swapping just the BBC's. If that moves the problem to the other tuner, you'll need a new BBC. These are available (free, 2 day FedEx) by telephoning DirecTV.

"About like what I get" should be mostly all in the 90's for 103(c) transponder signal strengths.

Welcome to DBSTalk.com!


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## lparsons21

lparsons21 said:


> Yes, I will report back. But since I have used a known good receiver (HR20-700) in this installation and everything works like it is supposed to, it is the HR10-100s that I have had. 2 and counting...
> 
> This AM things were a bit different. We got snow last night and all my signals were in the high 40's. Strangely with those low signals, all tuners on all sats were showing up fine. Maybe I need to get a snow machine or use rusty cables! :lol:


Well, 3rd time wasn't the charm. Got yet another HR20-100 in today, hooked up, same issues. Called tech support, switched to a supervisor 'cause the initial support person was insisting on sending out yet another tech. The supervisor and I went through a number of things and he agreed with me. Whatever is the issue, the HR20-100 isn't the right box for me. 3 for 3 failures, I've had enough of this particular problem. He put me into 'case management' as he says they have more flexibility and control over things. Like not sending another HR20-100 and instead sending a HR21 or a HR20-700.

We'll see how this goes...


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## K4SMX

This just posted in another thread. Hopefully you'll have better luck with case management.....


K4SMX said:


> Personally, I don't deal with their refurb'ed units. I understand their lease business model, but I don't have time to deal with refurbs the way they are currently operating that department. I've already decided that if one of my HR's breaks in some way I can't repair myself, I'll be "buying" (leasing) a new one and de-activating and returning the broken one to them, once the new one is checked out. Activation and de-activation will be my only contact with them, unless they accidentally screw up my channels I receive. So far, all 3 of the HR20-700's which were bought new-in-box have worked flawlessly. When the hard drives wear out, I'll be replacing them myself with the best I can find at the time. And BTW, they're _all_ on UPS's and they have laptop coolers, since they're -700's.


----------



## repulski

I have this problem on the 110 channels on my HR20-100. Didn't start happening until I got 0x1fe. Called and got a new HR20-100,same at first work flawlessly on 0x15c that cam with the box. As soon as 0x1fe downloaded problem showed up again. I believe this problem is a combination of the HR20-100 and the 0x1fe software. Any thoughts on this?


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## 187therapy

repulski said:


> I have this problem on the 110 channels on my HR20-100. Didn't start happening until I got 0x1fe. Called and got a new HR20-100,same at first work flawlessly on 0x15c that cam with the box. As soon as 0x1fe downloaded problem showed up again. I believe this problem is a combination of the HR20-100 and the 0x1fe software. Any thoughts on this?


I am on the same software version: 0x1fe, I am goint to try a revision 3 BBC on the sat in 2 and see if that does anything.


----------



## K4SMX

repulski said:


> I have this problem on the 110 channels on my HR20-100. Didn't start happening until I got 0x1fe. Called and got a new HR20-100,same at first work flawlessly on 0x15c that cam with the box. As soon as 0x1fe downloaded problem showed up again. I believe this problem is a combination of the HR20-100 and the 0x1fe software. Any thoughts on this?


It may seem like an 0x1fe problem, but I'm pretty sure it pre-dates that software. I had it myself before 0x1fe. Others can confirm or not.


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## lparsons21

Yep, I had it before 0x1fe came out too.


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## repulski

Thanks for the replies. Maybe I'll try a version 3 BBC.


----------



## lparsons21

lparsons21 said:


> Well, 3rd time wasn't the charm. Got yet another HR20-100 in today, hooked up, same issues. Called tech support, switched to a supervisor 'cause the initial support person was insisting on sending out yet another tech. The supervisor and I went through a number of things and he agreed with me. Whatever is the issue, the HR20-100 isn't the right box for me. 3 for 3 failures, I've had enough of this particular problem. He put me into 'case management' as he says they have more flexibility and control over things. Like not sending another HR20-100 and instead sending a HR21 or a HR20-700.
> 
> We'll see how this goes...


Followup:

Talked to Case Management and they are convinced it isn't the receiver and wanted to send another tech. I told them to hold off and called my local installer who did the initial setup. Here's what has been done:

1. Changed out receiver #1 - no joy
2. Changed out LNB head - no joy
3. Changed connectors - no joy
4. Many BBCs swapped (at least 8) - no joy
5. Changed out receiver #2 - no joy

So 3 receivers, 2 LNB sets, connectors or BBCs changed the problem. 

Today the installer came and we went direct from dish to receiver with all new, all copper wire, new connectors. Issue didn't change. 

Talked to Case Management and they agreed that it has to be a receiver and that I'm having bad luck. They also agreed NOT to send me yet another HR20-100, instead sending me an HR21. Hopefully this will be the end of the issue.

I'll post followup...


----------



## I. Liveclean

I have been having this problem on the new MPEG 4 channels for the past 60 days. At first, a simple reset would solve the problem and I could access the MPEG 4 channel that I wanted. The problem has gotten progressively worse, to the point now where a reset does nothing. I just get the dreaded "Searching for satellite" 771 message. I finally called DTV tech support and they gave me a series of "test channels" to try to isolate the problem. I had never heard of this before, so I tried all the channels and reported the results to them. Interestingly enough, they never asked me to run the signal test, which I fully expected them to do. They said that they were able to determine from my results that they would need to send a tech to solve the problem. 

My setup is a HR20-100 with straight 40' runs to the receiver. I tried all the normal trouble shooting techniques such as checking connections, swapping out BBC's, etc. My signal strengths are pretty solid (high 80's and 90's). I do have an esata raid setup, but even disconnected that to see if it made a difference. Nothing I tried has solved this problem. That's why I finally called DTV, because I was flat out of ideas. After reading this thread, I'm now really skeptical that DTV is even going to be able to solve the issue. They indicated I should be contacted within 48 hours, so I will post a follow up after the tech and I work on it.


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## AacidusX

darn! im geting this issue also, but on the 101. signal will be good one minute and the next itll die. not windy or raining when on the roof.
signal will be high 90s then drop to 40s and then 0 and then back up to 90s. happens on all receivers (hr20, r15, and d11). and my dish just got replaced and realigned after the storm, everything has been fine for a month or two.

what the heck is up?!?!?!


----------



## 187therapy

It's Back.
Started getting the 771 last night.
Checked my signal strengths and everything was 95+ on both turners except for turner 2/110, this was in the low 40's again.
Called DTV, sending another tech out.
This is effecting channels 245, 75 and sometimes 70 &71.


----------



## 1080

Hi folks, 1st post here. And unfortunately it's not good news.  

I just had D* come out and do an install today after dumping C*. Everything seemed to work fine until tonight when I started getting 771 issues.

Here's my specs:
HR21-700 (only unit in the house).
Coax is less than 25 feet from dish.
Black BBC's (for whatever that's worth :lol: )
Weather is sunny, clear and upper '60s.  

The anomolies I see are on sat 119 where tuner 1 transponders 23, 25-29, and 31 are all at 0 whereas tuner 2 shows transponder [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]

On sat 103(c) tuner 1 shows transponder 1, 3, 5-8, 9, 11, 13, and 17 as being 0 whereas tuner 2 shows the same transponder numbers as 81, 78, 82, 79, 82, 82, 84, 85, 88, 92.

I'm not sure if those transponder differences between the two tuners mean anything since I'm a total noob to D* but perhaps someone that does know can comment if these numbers are normal.

As for my 771 issue, it is totally repeatable. All I have to do is switch (during primetime HD broadcasts) from channel 7 (local HD) to channel 2 (local HD) and vice versa. The 771 issue also happens when I switch between other HD channels (like from showtime HD to something else) but I don't remember the exact channels. However, it seems to happen to national as well as local channels.

My workaround that seems to work is if, using the example above, I'm on channel 7 HD and want to see channel 2 HD, I have to tune in to channel 654 (FSN Bay Area, SD broadcast) first and then channel 2 will come in fine. Then, if I want to go back to channel 7 I will have to hit up channel 654 again.

And here's another weird thing: if both channels 7 and 2 are showing SD commercials at the time during their HD broadcast then I seem to be able to change channels back and forth without hitting up 654. 

Sorry for the long post but maybe someone can use this info to help pinpoint the issue. I'm enjoying D* but this issue ranks very high on the annoyance factor.


----------



## lparsons21

lparsons21 said:


> Followup:
> 
> Talked to Case Management and they are convinced it isn't the receiver and wanted to send another tech. I told them to hold off and called my local installer who did the initial setup. Here's what has been done:
> 
> 1. Changed out receiver #1 - no joy
> 2. Changed out LNB head - no joy
> 3. Changed connectors - no joy
> 4. Many BBCs swapped (at least 8) - no joy
> 5. Changed out receiver #2 - no joy
> 
> So 3 receivers, 2 LNB sets, connectors or BBCs changed the problem.
> 
> Today the installer came and we went direct from dish to receiver with all new, all copper wire, new connectors. Issue didn't change.
> 
> Talked to Case Management and they agreed that it has to be a receiver and that I'm having bad luck. They also agreed NOT to send me yet another HR20-100, instead sending me an HR21. Hopefully this will be the end of the issue.
> 
> I'll post followup...


Followup :

Same crap, different day.

After swearing that they were sending me an HR21, Case Management sent yet another HR20-100. Regardless of whether others think that is a good unit or not, I personally with my experience, think it is a POS!

We are now up to:
4 - HR20-100s receivers
2 - LNB heads
2 - sets of cable
2 - sets of cable ends
at least 12 BBCs
Re-aligned the dish

All with exactly zero results. The ONLY thing that fixed it was substituting an HR20-700 for the HR20-100. Worked flawlessly. Unfortunately that is the dealer's kiosk receiver and can't be just switched into my account and out of his from what both he and Direct have said.

At this point, I'm pretty PO'd as you might have guessed. I threw it back into my local dealers hands, gave him the PIN and case management number and told him to get this POS fixed regardless of what the hell they have to do. Alternatively they can come get all this crap out of and off of my house and I'll meander back to Dish for them failing to fulfill their part of the contract.


----------



## K4SMX

I understand your frustration. Curious if you even tried that -100? It was probably another refurb, but as yet I've not heard they are definitely no longer being produced, so it _possibly_ could have been a new one. Even the refurbs are not _all_ bad, just a lot of them. It is disturbing that Case Management, out of the 5 different HR models they could have sent you, sent you the one model they promised you they would not send. :nono2:


----------



## lparsons21

K4SMX said:


> I understand your frustration. Curious if you even tried that -100? It was probably another refurb, but as yet I've not heard they are definitely no longer being produced, so it _possibly_ could have been a new one. Even the refurbs are not _all_ bad, just a lot of them. It is disturbing that Case Management, out of the 5 different HR models they could have sent you, sent you the one model they promised you they would not send. :nono2:


Yes, I tried it. You don't have to activate to do a full testing for this issue. It is simple to reproduce. Just go to Sat 103(c) and back to 110 on Tuner #2 and I get no signal.

We'll see what they come up with on this yet another into the fray! 

As one vulture said to the other "patience my ass, I'm gonna kill something!"


----------



## K4SMX

Perhaps a .40 cal into the Sat In 2 RF jack would permanently prevent these "no 110 Sat 2" boxes from being continually returned to customers. At least you would no longer possibly be tempted to kill a _live_ "something."  They really need to start checking every one of these for this issue before turning them around.


----------



## lparsons21

After I replied to you, I got to thinking.

If, when they get the returns, they first flash the rom back to original before testing, the issue won't show up as 103 is shown as having nothing with that version of firmware. And each unit I have received has been that way.

It doesn't show up until after 0x1fe is flashed on. The issue is caused by something in the interchange between 103 and 110 on tuner #2. What that something is, I don't know, nor do I care. All I want is a unit that works like it is supposed to.

If they'd let me do it, I'd go to BB and buy the damn receiver (not HR20) and let them reimburse me and send them this one back. Or if they would figure out some way for the dealer to swap his kiosk machine to me and mine to him, I'd go for that. I KNOW that works!

All I know right now is that if something isn't done to get this working properly darn soon, I'll be quoting contract law to someone at Direct! I've not asked for any special deals or anything, just that the stuff works as advertised. Is that too much to ask or expect?

I'm pleased with almost everything about the system with the exception of this problem. But if something isn't done darn soon, I'll be less than pleased with Direct and their equipment. And when I'm not pleased I like to share my experiences with others A LOT!


----------



## minsco92

lparsons21 said:


> Followup:
> 
> Talked to Case Management and they are convinced it isn't the receiver and wanted to send another tech. I told them to hold off and called my local installer who did the initial setup. Here's what has been done:
> 
> 1. Changed out receiver #1 - no joy
> 2. Changed out LNB head - no joy
> 3. Changed connectors - no joy
> 4. Many BBCs swapped (at least 8) - no joy
> 5. Changed out receiver #2 - no joy
> 
> So 3 receivers, 2 LNB sets, connectors or BBCs changed the problem.
> 
> Today the installer came and we went direct from dish to receiver with all new, all copper wire, new connectors. Issue didn't change.
> 
> Talked to Case Management and they agreed that it has to be a receiver and that I'm having bad luck. They also agreed NOT to send me yet another HR20-100, instead sending me an HR21. Hopefully this will be the end of the issue.
> 
> I'll post followup...


I hope you have the same outcome that I have had with the HR-21. I have been having the same problem with my HR-20 in my living room since the installation (October 07). After 3 HR-20's, I finally got a HR-21 and after 3 days, no issues so far. I have had a HR-21 in my bedroom for a month and have not had one issue with it. So far, until someone proves me otherwise, I am convinced that it is an HR-20 problem. I have equal signals on both tuners of 95 to 98% with the new HR-21 in my living room, and I never had that with the HR-20.


----------



## minsco92

Doofus me didn't read all your posts. I personally demanded to get a HR-21. Like I said in my previous post, I have had a HR-21 in my bedroom for a month and have never lost signal. In talking to CSR's on the phone, they kept telling me that I had other issues (cabling, etc.) but none of them could explain why I was not having trouble with the HR-21 if it something other than the receiver. Finally, I got someone on the phone that would send me an HR-21. I don't know if you have the protection plan, but one thing that I noticed is that my service was substantially improved once I got the protection plan. Like I said, I demanded a new HR-21, and so far so good. My signals on the HR-20 ranged anywhere from 42 to 85 on tuner 2. It was never the same as tuner 1. My signals so far with the HR-21 are dead on with both tuners and everytime I have checked them, they have never been more than 4 or 5 percented points difference. Good luck, I hope you get your issue resolved. I would not give up until they sent me a HR-21.


----------



## lparsons21

Well, I threw it in the dealer's lap today. If he has no answers from Direct by Monday evening, then I'll jump back in. But not for long.

I don't have to kiss the ass of a business that wants my money. So far, I'm paying Direct isn't delivering. That is intolerable.


----------



## lparsons21

Followup: FIXED!!

Got the service call, they switched in an HR21 to my existing installation and all works just like it was supposed to.

Direct could have saved themselves lots of money had they just sent something other than 4 HR20's...

I'm now a happy camper!


----------



## K4SMX

Congratulations, Lloyd. In your reading of the posts on this subject (Sat 110, Tuner 2), have you seen any reports of this effecting the HR20-700's? I can't say I have, but I could be wrong....


----------



## lparsons21

K4SMX said:


> Congratulations, Lloyd. In your reading of the posts on this subject (Sat 110, Tuner 2), have you seen any reports of this effecting the HR20-700's? I can't say I have, but I could be wrong....


If there was any, it certainly was a very small number. This particular problem seems to be an HR20-100 only issue, but only affecting a fairly small number of them. And one of the things we tried was switching in a known good, activated HR20-700 and all was fine with my wiring and dish.

Here's what I think I learned in this fiasco.

1. A small number of HR20-100's are affected by this issue.

2. Replacement of this receiver with another HR20-100 (most likely refurbed) is not likely to fix the problem. I think this is because the problem is a bit more prevalent than Direct would like to admit, and I think the refurb goes like this, helping to exacerbate the issue. Turn on, if OK then flash to original software. The original software won't show this issue because it basically doesn't care about 103 which is where the issue gets its 'kick' from. After reflashing, then they test and the problem won't show up so they can't fix it. I think this is the crux of the matter and until they change this procedure, the problem won't go away.

They swear they don't reflash the rom, but if that is so, how did I get 4 HR20-100 refurbs with original software on them?

3. Noticed during this is after the tuner #2 dropout, then tuner #2 signal strengths are less than tuner #1. Sometimes just a little different, sometimes as much as 20 points. With the current HR21-700 I have, all signal strengths between tuners are within no more than 2 points difference.

4. As with Dish, Direct's customer support is friendly, but not always helpful. Because of the way things are structured, no one at Direct has any clue what receiver will be sent on an HDDVR order. That is a management issue that could be solved with proper inventory management. Current inventory management is piss poor, imo. And since I had to answer the same questions over and over, I wonder what kind of notes are kept when you call. It always seemed like the left and right hand wasn't even aware the other existed.


----------



## K4SMX

It is clear to me that the shipment of _all_ refurb'ed HR20-100's should be temporarily suspended. Period.


----------



## scottchez

I did not read all the posts but I will offer this tip for HR20-100s

I have similar problem, with turner Two only. Simple fix for me was to unplug ALL receivers in the house for 60 seconds from the power. Red button reset wont work. I just needed to clear the power form all coax lines to the LNB or something?

Everything is working good now. This problems happens about every 2 months.

I did read on an other forum that there solution was similar except it was there power outlet causing the issues. They tried a different out let. 

To me it seems that this model is sensitive to power outlets not up to spec or grounding issues. I do have one HR20-100 on a UPS and it still does it once in a while.

How this tip helps. May not be related to this problem, but maybe it will help others out there.

Maybe with this model you just need to un plug it every month or so to keep it happy, call me crazy . . . .


----------



## lparsons21

I tried power thingies with my HR20 also, no luck. And I had it on a UPS after the first night of storms. Little power glitches that didn't bother everything else in the house, would lock the HR20 up tighter than a drum.

So far, my HR21-700 they put in early this morning is working flawlessly. Hasn't missed a recording, no blank recordings and both tuners work on all satellites.


----------



## big dz

Hey everyone,
Add me to the 7771 club. H20-1. Guess I need to start bugging D*.

DZ


----------



## pilot305

I see most people think this is JUST a HR20 issue. It's not. I just had Direct installed today after being with Dish for years. I'm indeed getting this "searching for signal on Satellite In 1....(1771) on my HR21-700!!!! on certain channels (like USAHD and others, not all, but some of the HD channels). Brand new system and everything!! I'm already frustrated with Direct TV and its only been 2 hours..


----------



## anleva

anleva said:


> This whole issue is confusing as to cause. For me I checked signal strength on all satellites and for both tuners 1 and tuners 2. The issue is only with tuner 2 on sat 110. For this tuner/sat combination tuner 2 averages 15-25 points lower than tuner 1. Typically tuner 1 is in the mid 90's and tuner 2 is then in the low 70's. When this is the case there really isn't a problem, but under certain conditions the delta is greater and/or tuner 2 drops to numbers in the 50's and this is when I would start receiving a 771 error message.
> 
> Here is my situation:
> 
> 1) Issue is only with the tuner 2/sat 110 combo. Signal strength on others tuner/satellites combinations is the same.
> 
> 2) Switching tuner 1/tuner 2 cabling does not change things. The issue is still signal strength on tuner 2/sat 110 is 15-25 points lower.
> 
> 3) Unplugging the BBC on tuner 2 and direct connecting results in the same tuner 1/tuner 2 readings for sat 110. Bad BBC? IF so I would have expected #2 above to have made some sort of impact but it didn't.
> 
> Given this it doesn't seem to me that this is a HR20-100 receiver issue. Maybe a BBC issue but if so I would have expected #2 to have some impact and it doesn't. I'm guessing it's a firmware/software issue. Tuner 2 is as good as tuner 1 for me except when connected through a BBC and looking at satellite 110.
> 
> This is a strange issue. Hopefully DirecTV is taking ownership of solving it. I called it in and escalated it, maybe that will do something. I declined having a tech come out for now as it really doesn't seem like a receiver replacement is in order given my circumstances.


I have made progress based on this post I read in another thread:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1485192&postcount=60

So I tried it and it worked for me as well. Basically I attached a 3' section of RG6 cable between the BBC and the receiver. I used an F coupler (female to female) to connect the two together.

My problems were mostly with low signal strength on tuner 2/sat 110. After doing the above my strengths are close on 110 and pretty much the same on the rest of the satellites. Whereas I was seeing 15 - 25 point drops on average, and sometimes worse, for 110/tuner 2, now the worst case is a 5 point difference. This seemed to do the trick for some reason.

Not sure why this worked. Maybe it's the connector itself or the length of cable helping reduce signal loss. But this also confirms to me that its BBC related and a better BBC design would probably eliminate this tuner 2/sat 110 issue.

Hope this helps.


----------



## K4SMX

Excerpt from that post:



V'ger;1485192 said:


> .....I have two theories......Second is that there is transmission line reflection causing sufficient interference to cause 110 to fail. I have tried one, two and three feet cables and only the three foot cable worked for me. I actually used a piece of left over cable that was three foot long and later tried smaller ones with less success....


This is highly interesting, and I think that *V'ger* is on to something here. If there is a serious impedance mismatch between the BBC and the tuner when using the 110 IF frequency output by the LNB, the signal strength will be highly sensitive to line length. Thanks for bringing that forward to this thread, *anleva*. And thanks to *V'ger* for stumbling upon this while working on a solution based on his first theory regarding the cap depth.


----------



## K4SMX

pilot305 said:


> I see most people think this is JUST a HR20 issue. It's not. I just had Direct installed today after being with Dish for years. I'm indeed getting this "searching for signal on Satellite In 1....(1771) on my HR21-700!!!! on certain channels (like USAHD and others, not all, but some of the HD channels). Brand new system and everything!! I'm already frustrated with Direct TV and its only been 2 hours..


The problem we've been discussing here lately is a rather arcane and peculiar one regarding just the 110 satellite and tuner 2, effecting channels 70, 71, 73,74,76,77, and 78. It seems to be occurring with the HR20-100 refurbs with some regularity here lately, but not your model.

Why don't you post your satellite 103(c) signals transponder-by-transponder in grid fashion for both tuners 1 and 2, unless they're substantially the same, and we'll all have a look at what you've got there. It may just be a simple alignment problem. Problems with new HD installations are not uncommon, and usually the folks here can figure out what's going on.

Welcome to the DirecTV side of the forums!


----------



## Keane

K4SMX said:


> This is highly interesting, and I think that V'ger is on to something here. If there is a serious impedance mismatch between the BBC and the tuner when using the 110 IF frequency output by the LNB, the signal strength will be highly sensitive to line length. Thanks for bringing that forward to this thread, anleva. And thanks to V'ger for stumbling upon this while working on a solution based on his first theory regarding the cap depth.


Can you say that in English, please?


----------



## K4SMX

When you have an impedance mismatch, "standing waves" are created on the line. The voltage and current flows are not uniform at every point in the line. Simply put: weird things happen. Why the whole system works normally on initial reboot, but permanently changes after once tuning to 103(c) until the next reboot, is a question the DirecTV engineering guys will have to ponder.

Re: Standing Waves, see the "Opposing waves" section.


----------



## Keane

K4SMX said:


> When you have an impedance mismatch, "standing waves" are created on the line. The voltage and current flows are not uniform at every point in the line. Simply put: weird things happen. Why the whole system works normally on initial reboot, but permanently changes after once tuning to 103(c) until the next reboot, is a question the DirecTV engineering guys will have to ponder.
> 
> Re: Standing Waves, see the "Opposing waves" section.


Thanks.

Now for anyone's opinion on this question. I managed to get tech support to send me a refurbed hr20-100 as a solution to this issue. Unfortunately, the refurbed unit would freeze up at Step 1 of 2 when trying to boot up the box. I called the next day and the rep at tech support told me that my whole issue is obviously a reduced signal problem. Stupid me and my DBS forum! Now, I haven't tried this in awhile, but shouldnt the box be able to boot up even without a line from the dish plugged in?


----------



## K4SMX

Yes, eventually. Sounds like you traded a receiver that worked mostly OK for one that doesn't work at all. 

Have you sent back the first one already?


----------



## Keane

K4SMX said:


> Yes, eventually. Sounds like you traded a receiver that worked mostly OK for one that doesn't work at all.
> 
> Have you sent back the first one already?


Not yet. I swapped the original receiver back in and am now waiting for a tech to come out next Saturday before I send anything back. Now I'm stuck having to reset my box every 6 to 8 hours since this issue is now causing my receiver to lock up a few times a day.


----------



## K4SMX

Keane said:


> Not yet. I swapped the original receiver back in and am now waiting for a tech to come out next Saturday before I send anything back. Now I'm stuck having to reset my box every 6 to 8 hours since *this issue is now causing my receiver to lock up a few times a day.*


That has not been previously reported as a "feature" of this problem to my knowledge. Do you in fact have low 110 signal strengths on tuner 2, but not tuner 1?

Make sure you retain shipping info on any receiver you return to DirecTV and disable auto-pay until your receiver swapping is completed.


----------



## Keane

K4SMX said:


> That has not been previously reported as a "feature" of this problem to my knowledge. Do you in fact have low 110 signal strengths on tuner 2, but not tuner 1?
> 
> Make sure you retain shipping info on any receiver you return to DirecTV and disable auto-pay until your receiver swapping is completed.


I do have low signal strength on 110, tuner 2 (but not 1) until I reset. The problem then disappears for a few hours until my DVR kicks in and changes to a 103 channel. I have a feeling that the dead air being recorded on a 103 when I'm not around is now causing this issue with my receiver freezing up.


----------



## Cobra

I had a new receiver installed tues. night, before the night was up, the 771 errror code and very bad readings just on tuner 2. Called back again told the rep, sending a tech out again and claimed they havent heard of this issue. So far I have had 4 new receivers 2 700d and 2 100 hrs, they took my sidecar down and relocated the new slimline with all new wiring from the sat to the receiver, have installed several new bbcs, swapped cables, and always tuner 2 every time. I have absolutely no issues with my h20. The tech is coming out again tomorrow evening. The wife is getting upset about this, which in turn makes me upset but with no resolve. Starting to think I have had enough with dtv. With all the tech visits, new boxes, new slimline, new wiring something or one of the techs should of resolved this issue by now:nono2:


----------



## 996911

Well, I was hoping I wouldn't have to come back to my thread but last night I kept getting 771 on tuner 2 AGAIN!!! I "nut and bolted" everything on the dish and even sprayed the damn thing with Pam (I can't believe I did that). Haven't had a 771 for a while and now it's back again. Dear God in heaven I am starting to get really pissed. Why do we have to keep doing "workarounds" to solve this problem? Can't the BBC's get fixed? Can't their be a software update? Etc?


And for the gentleman that did a 3' section of RG6 from the BBC's to the tuner inputs just amazes me that we have to do crap like that to get these things to work.


----------



## K4SMX

996911 said:


> .....And for the gentleman that did a 3' section of RG6 from the BBC's to the tuner inputs just amazes me that we have to do crap like that to get these things to work.


It seems like a pretty simple fix to me. Most people have a couple of these in a drawer somewhere. I'd rather do this than spray my dish with a mixture of Canola oil and grain alcohol.  Maybe you need a Hot Shot dish heater for next winter.

So far there have only been two postings of success with this simple fix and no failures. Since we only first heard of it yesterday, I'm sure more reports will follow.

If there's anything that should be amazing, it's that nobody at DirecTV seems to have yet figured this out, if this is in fact the solution to this issue so many have been reporting with the HR20-100's. However, a _lot_ of inventions have been discovered accidentally while working another theory.

I hope this solves your problem, although you didn't state whether you have the "110 Tuner 2 Bug" or some other signal strength issue....


----------



## anleva

Yep. I picked up an F coupler from Radio Shack on my way home for a couple bucks and grabbed an extra piece of coax out of the drawer that I had left over. Took 2 minutes to hook it up and so far so good. 

Given my initial troubleshooting, thanks to other posters suggestions, and reading other posts I never bothered having DirecTV out to my house as I didn't want to go through an endless cycle of taking off work, receiver swaps and who knows what else when it seemed like there was some sort of glitch with the BBC or connector that DirecTV hasn't yet figured out and their current methods weren't solving the problem. 

I hope they read this forum and this helps them diagnose and come up with a more elegant solution but for now I'm good to go.


----------



## goosecat

I was having lots of channel freezing issues almost every day about 2 months ago. A month later, a bunch of 771 errors started to occur. I reauthorized the HR20 which didn't seem to help (but maybe it did?) because I continued to have frequent problems. The 771 errors then mysteriously went away a week or so later. I still have the occasional freeze but that has significantly improved as well. 

So mysteriously on its own, the problems seem to have improved. I haven't done anything with my hardware except reauthorizing it that one time but I don't think that really did anything. I still have the occasional freezing or unresponsive receiver problem but no 771's in a long time. 

I really think it is a software issue because RBR always fixes it.


----------



## K4SMX

anleva said:


> .....I hope they read this forum and this helps them diagnose and come up with a more elegant solution but for now I'm good to go.


*(!)* Congratulations on the "fix." You could make it more elegant by wrapping your 3' patch cable several times around one of those cans of Pam everyone in the cold weather seems to now own as a dish accessory and put a couple of tie wraps on it.


----------



## blc

K4SMX said:


> *(!)* Congratulations on the "fix." You could make it more elegant by wrapping your 3' patch cable several times around one of those cans of Pam everyone in the cold weather seems to now own as a dish accessory and put a couple of tie wraps on it.


At least no one can say this Sat 2 110 issue has made you lose your humor! I have not yet had time to try "the fix." I intend to this weekend when I have time to get the appropriate coupler.


----------



## K4SMX

Cobra said:


> I had a new receiver installed tues. night, before the night was up, the 771 errror code and very bad readings just on tuner 2........ always tuner 2 every time. I have absolutely no issues with my h20.


I take it your current receiver is an HR20-100. Have you definitely isolated your tuner 2 problem to just the 110 satellite (CH 70-71, 73-78), or is it a more generalized tuner 2 issue?


----------



## Keane

K4SMX said:


> So far there have only been two postings of success with this simple fix and no failures. Since we only first heard of it yesterday, I'm sure more reports will follow.


This is directed more twards anyone who put this fix in place. How long has this "fix" held up for?

Before I go running out to Radio Hack this weekend, I have a feeling this "fix" won't last long. I'm by far no electrical wiz, but how would interference from the BBC converters only affect tuner 2? It just doesn't make sense.


----------



## anleva

Keane said:


> This is directed more twards anyone who put this fix in place. How long has this "fix" held up for?
> 
> Before I go running out to Radio Hack this weekend, I have a feeling this "fix" won't last long. I'm by far no electrical wiz, but how would interference from the BBC converters only affect tuner 2? It just doesn't make sense.


I did the "fix" on Wednesday after work. So far it has held. Here are my numbers this morning on Sat 110:

Tuner 1: 96, 89, 97 
Tuner 2: 90, 85, 95

This difference has been consistent since I put in the 3' RG6 cable between the receiver and BBC. Before the delta was 20-25 points on average and sometimes worse as I might see Tuner 2 readings in the 40's or 50's and this would cause 771 errors.


----------



## K4SMX

Keane said:


> This is directed more twards anyone who put this fix in place. How long has this "fix" held up for?
> 
> Before I go running out to Radio Hack this weekend, I have a feeling this "fix" won't last long. I'm by far no electrical wiz, but how would interference from the BBC converters only affect tuner 2? It just doesn't make sense.


I would not expect time will change the results. We don't know exactly what's going on with tuner 2 and the BBC, but I can tell you that if there's a frequency-specific (950-1,450 mhz) anomaly which is sensitive to line length, an impedance mismatch is an immediate suspect. How this could occur after a reboot only after first tuning a 103(c) is not clear, but there's some interaction between the software, tuner 2, and the BBC's internal circuitry that's not working correctly. We know that the BBC's work fine on other models besides the HR20-100 and that only some -100's are effected. It's a real puzzle.


----------



## BKC

What color BBC's does everybody have? It may not make a bit of difference but my 771 problems have not returned since they installed a new receiver (3rd one) but this time it came with gray BBC's instead of black. 

If the problem returns, I'll be throwing on the 3' piece of wire.


----------



## Keane

BKC said:


> What color BBC's does everybody have? It may not make a bit of difference but my 771 problems have not returned since they installed a new receiver (3rd one) but this time it came with gray BBC's instead of black.
> 
> If the problem returns, I'll be throwing on the 3' piece of wire.


I have gone through 3 sets of grey, revision 2 BBC's.


----------



## BKC

Keane said:


> I have gone through 3 sets of grey, revision 2 BBC's.


Shoots that idea then huh? :lol:


----------



## eakes

If the problem is in fact an impedance mismatch, here is another potential solution: Place a 2-way splitter between the BBC and receiver input.  Use the power pass side.

What may be at play here is that the BBC has a bandpass filter as its output looking toward the receiver. For some reason the receiver input is going to a high impedance instead of 75 ohms. Placing a high impedance at one end of a transmission line which is fed by a filter that expects to see a 75 ohm termination will lead to some very strange results. (I discovered this years ago in a filter design class in college)


----------



## K4SMX

BKC said:


> Shoots that idea then huh? :lol:


No, actually, I found a particular gray, Rev. 2 BBC that was the best of eight I tried. The two black, Rev. 3's which came with the receiver were the worst. We're talking 25 points difference on average for the three 100 tp's.


----------



## Cobra

K4SMX said:


> I take it your current receiver is an HR20-100. Have you definitely isolated your tuner 2 problem to just the 110 satellite (CH 70-71, 73-78), or is it a more generalized tuner 2 issue?


More of a generalized tuner 2 problem, 110 and 119 give lower numbers with 110 being the worst, all 0's and 119 is anywhere from 60-77 on tuner 2


----------



## lparsons21

I still have the HR20 that was giving me the problem, so I tried the 3' cable trick. No joy, still doesn't work. No signal on 110 tuner #2 if you got to 103 first.


----------



## K4SMX

That makes the current "success ratio" 2.66:1. You noticed no difference _at all_ on tp's 8, 10, & 12?


----------



## big dz

Hey everyone,
I wanted to try the "fix", but I'm somewhat of a newbie. I understand I need a 3' piece of coax, but where exactly do I attach it? 

Thanks,
DZ


----------



## K4SMX

First, please be aware that we're only talking about problems receiving the 110 satellite (CH's 70 & 71, and 73-78) with the HR20-100, tuner 2.

The 3' patch cable goes between the BBC and the SAT IN 2 jack on the receiver. You'll need a double-female F adapter.


----------



## lparsons21

K4SMX said:


> That makes the current "success ratio" 2.66:1. You noticed no difference _at all_ on tp's 8, 10, & 12?


No nothing at all on 110 w/tuner #2. Aren't most of those that are having luck getting some signal, even though very weak? I never got that, just zero on 110 tuner #2, and lower signals on all others on tuner #2.


----------



## 187therapy

Had my second service call for 771 issue,
This time I think the tech found the problem.
He replaced the two barrel connectors in my wall plate.
The ones service techs use have a blue center and pass a certain freq. that the standard barrel connectores do not. Thats what he told me anyway. I had my doubts but my turner 2/110 had never been above 72 and is now at 93-96 and my channels look great now. I hope this was the problem.
Anybody heard of this barrel issue?


----------



## K4SMX

I'vs got quite a few of the "clear" barrel adapters as well as the blue, 2.5 ghz ones. I've never had a problem with these. They are usually kept in little drawers, sometimes in the back of the store, not hanging on the wall with the rest of the F connectors/adapters.

The ones found in wall plates could be of very inferior quality. I've tested the R/S #278-213's extensively. Never a problem. Usually, however, the problem with wall plates is that the male connector on the back side is crushed, frayed, loose, etc.


----------



## K4SMX

Folks, I have some pretty good evidence tonight that this problem with Satellite 110 Tuner 2 may be fixed when the next national release of the software is automatically downloaded to your receiver. We'll know for sure pretty soon.


----------



## blc

K4SMX said:


> Folks, I have some pretty good evidence tonight that this problem with Satellite 110 Tuner 2 may be fixed when the next national release of the software is automatically downloaded to your receiver. We'll know for sure pretty soon.


Please explain. Does this mean that Dtv now acknowledges the problem? What is the cause?


----------



## newsposter

K4SMX said:


> Folks, I have some pretty good evidence tonight that this problem with Satellite 110 Tuner 2 may be fixed when the next national release of the software is automatically downloaded to your receiver. We'll know for sure pretty soon.


I'm not very mechanical but what in software can fix this issue if people on here are successfully fixing it with a 'hardware' fix?


----------



## K4SMX

newsposter said:


> I'm not very mechanical but what in software can fix this issue if people on here are successfully fixing it with a 'hardware' fix?


As *eakes* aptly stated:



eakes said:


> ...What may be at play here is that the BBC has a bandpass filter as its output looking toward the receiver. For some reason the receiver input is going to a high impedance instead of 75 ohms. Placing a high impedance at one end of a transmission line which is fed by a filter that expects to see a 75 ohm termination will lead to some very strange results. (I discovered this years ago in a filter design class in college)


If there is something in the software which, after having once been used to tune the 103(c), is causing the input at the tuner when then tuned to 110 to go into a high impedance condition, an impedance mismatch will occur.

Also, since the -100's never had this problem immediately after the 103(c) ("b" at the time) software was added and D10 was subsequently activated, but instead the issue only showed up sometime later, you have to assume that the cause is software-related. In addition, it's unlikely that this issue was ever hardware-related, because the tuner chips are I believe identical, but only tuner 2 seems to have been effected.


----------



## 187therapy

My 771 problem is back today after tech replaced barrels last night.
Channels w/ 771:
71,75,
Channels w/ breakup:
73,245,509,537,543


----------



## Cobra

finally I was able to talk to a good csr person, he ran me through the regular tests, but he actually listened to me as I explained what has all been done, how many times a tech has come to my house. He moved my case to a case solver, not sure if that is the exact term. I received a call later from a very nice higher tech guy, he also said this is a new problem he has not heard about yet, he gave me his number and a pin # so I can deal directly with him. I also told him I have had only refurbished units, so he said he placed an email to the warehouse to send me a brand new unit and we'll go from there. Another test I did was that I brought my h20-100 to the family room, and ran each of the cables from the hr-20 100 to the h20 and had no problems with either cable, and the signal strength was the same in the 90s for both cables. So if that isnt proof that it is a problem with the hr20 series, then I dont know what is


----------



## Metalface12

Been having this issue on all local HD's (2 - 11) as well as other various newer HD channels. Have had the service for 6 months. This is now the 3rd time it has come up. 

Have the 5 LNB set up, 2 HR20-100 DVR's and 1 HD non DVR, all the newer models, do not have the exact models off hand. Same issue on all 3 HD sets. 

First issue happened a week after install. Rain storm and loss of signal. Never came back for those HD channels. Tech came out, swapped something but I dont know what, wife was home.

Second time, same nonsense, tech changed multi switch at base of dish where it splits off to various parts of house.

Fine until Monday of this past week, been down since, tech cannot come out until next Thursday. Pathetic.

RUnning the standard tests I get:

Sat 101, 110, 119 OK
Sat 99 (s) FAILED
Sat 103 (s) 103 (c) OK

That look like a failed LNB? Any ideas?


----------



## larryl

I think DirecTV is terrified of this issue. My HR20 can't keep any of the new HD channels tuned in reliably, and I'm losing recording after recording. Many calls resulted in a tech visit, and his conclusion was that the device was running too hot. With the new cooler on top it never tops 100 degrees, but the issue continues. Case management was going to call me in less than two hours on Wednesday, then again on Thursday, then again on Friday. Not a peep. I'll call it in again today.


----------



## blc

I know this has been stated before, but just to make sure that all are experiencing the same issue, try this test. It only takes a few minutes. And without isolating that this is where the problem is, you may think it is "fixed" each time a tech does something that disconnects the cables or reboots the receiver because this "clears" the problem until the receiver tunes to a specific sequence of satellites. Also, many with 771 problems on the channels in the 70's may think the problem is intermittent, only because the receivers toggle between tuners when changing channels. Thus, tuner 1 may hit the channel and all is well, whereas next time, tuner 2 may hit the channel and a 771 error occurs.

(1) Make sure your receiver is tuned to a channel on the 101 sat (I think channel 100 is on that sat);

(2) Reboot the receiver by using the remote, the red button, or unplugging;

(3) When the receiver comes back on after reboot, go to the signal charts without going to any other channel first so as to not hit an MPEG4 channel before completing the test (keep the receiver tuned to the 101 sat);

(4) Keep on the 101 chart until you get Tuner 2 set as the tuner to test because the charts pull up with Tuner 1 as the default tuner to test (do not go to the 99 or 103 sats before going to the 110 or 119);

(5) Go to 110 sat chart (by hitting the "plus" button on the screen to move up to the next sat) with Tuner 2 set as the tuner to test and record the signals on the chart (by hitting the 110 sat with Tuner 1 first it may give you higher readings later when testing tuner 2 than just hitting the 110 sat with Tuner 2 set as the tuner to test);

(6) Do the same for 119 sat (as I have noticed a few points different on that sat as well) and record the transponder signals;

(7) Now go to 103(c) sat, while still having Tuner 2 set as the tuner to test, and record the signals;

(8) Go back to the 110 sat with Tuner 2 still set as the tuner to test;

(9) At this point, the Tuner 2 chart will be lower for the three transponders on the 110 sat if you are having the issue that many of are seeing.

Hope this helps to test for the Sat 110 Tuner 2 issue. It shows up after tuning to one of the newer MPEG4 channels (generally sat 103) and then returning to the 110.

Edit: I only post this for those who may not have seen how to test for this issue, and because I think the problem is much more widespread than Dtv realizes. Some people have posted that they have received 3 or 4 receivers and the problem persists even after redoing the cables and replacing lnbs. Probability goes against believing that each of those receivers were mere "isolated" problem receivers.


----------



## K4SMX

Coppermux said:


> Been having this issue on all local HD's (2 - 11) as well as other various newer HD channels.....





larryl said:


> .....My HR20 can't keep any of the new HD channels tuned in reliably, and I'm losing recording after recording.....


Would you guys please post your signals from the 103(c) (or 103(b)) satellite in grid form?

Menu Button > Parental, Fav's & Setup > System Setup > Satellite > View Signal Strength

Change from the 101 to the 103(c) and observe your signals on both tuners. Post only one set of info unless tuner 1 and 2 are substantially different. Any "0's" should only be momentary; you may see the signals come and go, but that's not a real issue, just a software glitch in the menu page.


----------



## Metalface12

Will have that info to you shortly....


----------



## Metalface12

K4SMX said:


> Would you guys please post your signals from the 103(c) (or 103(b)) satellite in grid form?
> 
> Menu Button > Parental, Fav's & Setup > System Setup > Satellite > View Signal Strength
> 
> Change from the 101 to the 103(c) and observe your signals on both tuners. Post only one set of info unless tuner 1 and 2 are substantially different. Any "0's" should only be momentary; you may see the signals come and go, but that's not a real issue, just a software glitch in the menu page.


Ok, here is SAT 103 (c) Tuner 1









Here is SAT 103 (c) Tuner 2









and for reference, here is SAT 101


----------



## K4SMX

Thanks, *Coppermux*. Your dish is out-of-alignment. Notice the odd-even disparity of your 103(c) signal strengths. They should mostly all be in the 90's. Do you want to fix it yourself? See post #44.

Gotta walk the dogs for an hour, see ya soon!


----------



## larryl

K4SMX said:


> Would you guys please post your signals from the 103(c) (or 103(b)) satellite in grid form?


Thanks for any advice. Both tuners are very similar.


----------



## K4SMX

*larryl:* Nothing the matter with those signals. Is your problem with the national HD's, the HD locals, or both? If your problem is just the HD locals, that may be a specific, special issue. When was the last time you rebooted your DVR?

I'd try a completely cold restart by turning it off overnight (or at least 1 hour) as follows: Do a "Menu Reboot" ---> Menu Button > Parental, Fav's & Setup > System Setup > Reset > Restart Recorder. Be ready the moment the front panel lights momentarily go out to pull the AC line cord, either at the back of the receiver or at the wall plug end.

You may well just need another receiver.


----------



## Metalface12

Thank you K4! The installer was a bit of a jerk anyway, I guess he was in a rush and did it half assed. Much appreciated!


----------



## larryl

K4SMX said:


> Is your problem with the national HD's, the HD locals, or both? If your problem is just the HD locals, that may be a specific, special issue. When was the last time you rebooted your DVR?


It's most prevalent with the newer HD's - Scifi, Dsc, Nge, FSSW, NFL, but I've also lost recordings in the upper 70's. I've never had an issue with the HD locals.

I reboot repeatedly, more than daily, but I haven't tried the process you outlined. I'll give it a shot.

Thanks again for the advice.


----------



## K4SMX

larryl said:


> It's most prevalent with the newer HD's - Scifi, Dsc, Nge, FSSW, NFL, but I've also lost recordings in the upper 70's. I've never had an issue with the HD locals.
> 
> I reboot repeatedly, more than daily, but I haven't tried the process you outlined. I'll give it a shot.
> 
> Thanks again for the advice.


I have seen reports of defective LNB's causing the problem you report, i.e., good signals, but with intermiittent pixelation. Do you know what the brand is? It's on the inside face of the LNB, the side that faces the dish.

Also, is there any possibility that your HR20 is an HR20-700 and that you also have either a light dimmer on the same circuit or a nearby PC running?


----------



## larryl

K4SMX said:


> I have seen reports of defective LNB's causing the problem you report, i.e., good signals, but with intermiittent pixelation. Do you know what the brand is? It's on the inside face of the LNB, the side that faces the dish.


WNC Slimline AU9



K4SMX said:


> Also, is there any possibility that your HR20 is an HR20-700 and that you also have either a light dimmer on the same circuit or a nearby PC running?


I believe that it is an HR20-700 - info menu says Model HR20, Manufacturer 700. It's been plugged into an APC ES350 UPS since Friday morning so power should not be an issue, but it still lost Battlestar Galactica on 74 last night.

I'm in contact with Case Management now. They are sending me a new black receiver to see if that remedies the problem.


----------



## Farsight

Here's an example of the similar issue I'm seeing - this is 100% reproducible:

Tune in ESPNHD (mpeg2 HD I believe): looks fine
Change to ESPNEWS (mpeg2 SD): low/no signal on tuner 2
Change to ESPN Classic (mpeg2 SD): looks fine
Change back to ESPNEWS: looks fine

Switching back and forth between those 3 channels toggles whether ESPNEWS comes in perfectly, or gives "Searching for signal on tuner 2 (771)", with an occasional completely scrambled (random squares) image every so often.

Similarly:

Tune in HBO2: looks fine
Tune in HBOHD (mpeg2 HD): 771 no/low signal on tuner 2
Tune in CNBCHD: looks fine
Tune in HBOHD: looks fine

Since this issue does not occur on my HDTivo which gets its signal from the same LNB, I've always suspected this was either a software or BBC issue (something unique to the new DirecTV DVRs).

I've even been able to cause the no/low signal during a recording to go away by switching channels as above, which seems odd since I would think the tuner would be locked onto the channel while a recording is active, making me think a software fault is the cause.

So I'll be looking forward to that next software update.


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## K4SMX

Is that an HR20-100?


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## Farsight

Oh, duh, I forgot that... yes, it is.


----------



## K4SMX

Farsight said:


> Oh, duh, I forgot that... yes, it is.


Have you tried this or this?


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## Farsight

I don't think I want to go up on the roof and tinfoil my dish, but the 3' cord sounds like it's worth a shot.

So far I haven't been that bothered by the issue, since it has only ever affected 3 channels that I'm aware of (ESPNHD, ESPNEWS, HBOHD), and I've only gotten one garbage recording because of it (when it happens live I just flip channels back and forth).

Also interesting is that when I flip channels, the new channels tends to also display a different but corrupt (random blocks of data) image for a brief instant before correcting. Also, if I watch the channel live, gradually over time the signal strength will drop. After 15 minutes or so, the image starts to get small glitches and audio drops. If not corrected by switching channels back and forth, the signal eventually drops low enough for the 771 error. The low signal will never improve on its own, but switching channels to force the tuner to re-tune always works.

I'll give the mini-extension cable trick a try when I have some time to tinker with things again (and no recordings are scheduled).


----------



## 187therapy

My 771 issue has been esclated to a different department.
After going thur all my troubleshooting steps I was asked if I would try an HR21, Sure I said. Just waiting on it to arrive now.


----------



## 996911

I understand how the 3' extension could work since you are using better connectors, etc, but can somebody please explain how the "tin foil" works? I really like D* and having both TWC and D* I can honestly say that even with these intermitment problems I still prefer D* but this is bordering on embarrassing that as a forum we have to come up with all these work arounds so that the darn D* works properly. Do they not have a R&D or engineering department?


----------



## larryl

187therapy said:


> My 771 issue has been esclated to a different department. After going thur all my troubleshooting steps I was asked if I would try an HR21, Sure I said. Just waiting on it to arrive now.


Same here. I got the replacement yesterday. It recorded NGCHD, DSCHD, and SCIHD all night long successfully.


----------



## lparsons21

That's what it took for me to get proper operation. After 4 HR20-100s in a row, all with the same problem on an otherwise perfectly good installation, the problem that Direct claims to have never heard of with Sat 110 on tuner #2 is fixed.


----------



## K4SMX

996911 said:


> I understand how the 3' extension could work since you are using better connectors, etc, but can somebody please explain how the "tin foil" works?.....


The 3' patch cable fix has to do with changing the "electrical distance" between the BBC and the receiver, not the male connectors, which are inferior in several respects as well. In a circuit with properly matched impedances, this distance is immaterial. However, if there is an impedance mismatch between the BBC and the receiver at a specific frequency, the distance between the devices becomes a factor in the circuit.

There's not yet a well-developed explanation that I've seen as to why partially covering the 119 LNB changes the way the 110 satellite signals are handled in the circuit, comprising the tuner, the BBC, and the connecting cable. But with a probable impedance problem in this circuit, reduction in the 119 signal levels at the BBC input or indeed all sorts of other possible factors could influence how the circuit works. It _is_ sort of amazing anybody made this initial observation.


----------



## morgantown

K4SMX said:


> The 3' patch cable fix has to do with changing the "electrical distance" between the BBC and the receiver, not the male connectors, which are inferior in several respects as well. In a circuit with properly matched impedances, this distance is immaterial. However, if there is an impedance mismatch between the BBC and the receiver at a specific frequency, the distance between the devices becomes a factor in the circuit.
> 
> There's not yet a well-developed explanation that I've seen as to why partially covering the 119 LNB changes the way the 110 satellite signals are handled in the circuit, comprising the tuner, the BBC, and the connecting cable. But with a probable impedance problem in this circuit, reduction in the 119 signal levels at the BBC input or indeed all sorts of other possible factors could influence how the circuit works. It _is_ sort of amazing anybody made this initial observation.


Wow. That is interesting.

I've had the 721 error a couple of times in the past week and my location is prone to 119 issues when the leaves are out (which has _not_ occured here in West Virginia yet). 110 is even worse although the SS on both is fine right now.

I'm personally looking forward to the day when a DirecTV dish is available that only "sees" 101, 99, and 103. Noth holding my breath on that one though .


----------



## 996911

Many thanks for the explanation Stew!


----------



## 187therapy

Got my HR21-700 yesterday, just have to hook it up tonight.
It looks like a refurb unit but not sure. Arrived in a white box with dtv logo on the side. Also there is no off air antenna input on this unit, not that I use it.


----------



## K4SMX

morgantown said:


> Wow. That is interesting.





996911 said:


> Many thanks for the explanation Stew!


Just keep in mind that this is all just my arm chair theorization based on what's been reported here and my own experience with this issue. I don't really know for sure what the real technical explanation is for this problem, and I'm sure I will never be told. The reported 3' patch cable "fix" strongly points to an impedance mismatch. It could in fact be something else entirely.


----------



## 187therapy

The refurb HR21-700 seems to have resolved my 771 issue. tuner 2/110 still @ 96 strength.


----------



## lparsons21

187therapy said:


> The refurb HR21-700 seems to have resolved my 771 issue. tuner 2/110 still @ 96 strength.


Strange isn't it. After DirecTV assuring me time after time, even after sending me the 4th HR20-100s in a row, that the problem just wasn't what I thought it was. They kept insisting on doing a service call, all the while assuring me that the service call would show that it wasn't the receiver....

They changed out the receiver to an HR21-700 and the problem went away....

Amazing! :nono2:


----------



## Cobra

received an hr21-200 to replace my 4th receiver, havent installed it yet, just got home from work. No ota hook up though, but hopefully she'll work. Do like the black though, matches the rest of my home theatre components


----------



## sdmiller

For what it is worth, I had a similar issue with the new mpeg 4 channels and it turned out that just replacing the BBC's(through an ordering page on directv.com) solve the issue. I figured it out because when I got the searching for signal I went to those channels that verify your bbc's are installed and it would say that one failed. Once I replaced them, never happened again.


----------



## lparsons21

sdmiller said:


> For what it is worth, I had a similar issue with the new mpeg 4 channels and it turned out that just replacing the BBC's(through an ordering page on directv.com) solve the issue. I figured it out because when I got the searching for signal I went to those channels that verify your bbc's are installed and it would say that one failed. Once I replaced them, never happened again.


That has been what has made this problem particularly vexing. Some found new BBCs fixed the issue, although many of those said it only did it for awhile. Others have added 3' of RG6 cable between BBC and tuner #2 input, others put tin foil on one of the LNBs. And then there are guys like me. New receiver, NOT HR20-100s, fixed the problem and was the only thing that did.


----------



## 187therapy

HR21-700 still good after 36 hours.


----------



## Metalface12

Just a follow up.

3rd tech visit in 6 months was Thursday. Found an LNB slightly out of alignment. Said that would clear up 771 on my locals. Came back down, now 70's and locals had 771.

Rebooted both HR20-100 DVR's. Worked ok. Tech's answere was "Well, that might fix it, I guess". And left.

Now, 2 days later, 771 on half the HD channels again.

Can I actually call and demand 2 HR21's? That appears to work for many.

I am fed up and ready to ****can this service. Pathetic.


----------



## lparsons21

Coppermux said:


> Just a follow up.
> 
> 3rd tech visit in 6 months was Thursday. Found an LNB slightly out of alignment. Said that would clear up 771 on my locals. Came back down, now 70's and locals had 771.
> 
> Rebooted both HR20-100 DVR's. Worked ok. Tech's answere was "Well, that might fix it, I guess". And left.
> 
> Now, 2 days later, 771 on half the HD channels again.
> 
> Can I actually call and demand 2 HR21's? That appears to work for many.
> 
> I am fed up and ready to ****can this service. Pathetic.


You can call and demand anything, but getting it is a different story!! 

I tried calling and insisting that I didn't want yet another busted HR20-100s, and even after the advanced care or whatever promised to send an HR21, I still got and HR20.

The only way I ended up with an HR21 (which fixed the problem) was letting them do a service call. So if I were you and have the service contract, I would make them keep coming out until they get it right. Without the contract, it would probably not be cost effective.

I signed up for the 'free service contract' that they later reneged on, but with all the problems I've had in the first month, I darn well expect to have more.


----------



## 187therapy

After my first tech visit, that did not fix the problem with a refurb HR20-100 swap out, I called in again. Had second tech visit for same problem. 771 back that night. Called in again, CSR said they were going to escalate my problem to a supervisor that would call in 4-6 hours. Two days later with no call, I called in again. CSR said since I had not recieved a call she would escalate it up to the next department tech support side. I did get a call within 4 hours this time.
Went thru everything with this guy and told him in the fourms an HR21 has been the only thing resolving the issue for most people. At this point he said he would ship one out if I like but normally they can not request a model number but he would see what he could do and if I did not her from him within 24 hours assume the HR21 was on it's way. It arrived two days later and has been fine ever since.
You have to get your problem escalated in order to get anything done with this issue. Every time you call in make sure to tell the CSR notice how many time I have called in with this 771 issue.


----------



## Metalface12

187therapy said:


> After my first tech visit, that did not fix the problem with a refurb HR20-100 swap out, I called in again. Had second tech visit for same problem. 771 back that night. Called in again, CSR said they were going to escalate my problem to a supervisor that would call in 4-6 hours. Two days later with no call, I called in again. CSR said since I had not recieved a call she would escalate it up to the next department tech support side. I did get a call within 4 hours this time.
> Went thru everything with this guy and told him in the fourms an HR21 has been the only thing resolving the issue for most people. At this point he said he would ship one out if I like but normally they can not request a model number but he would see what he could do and if I did not her from him within 24 hours assume the HR21 was on it's way. It arrived two days later and has been fine ever since.
> You have to get your problem escalated in order to get anything done with this issue. Every time you call in make sure to tell the CSR notice how many time I have called in with this 771 issue.


I made the call immediately, was told it was escalated and there would be a call back within 2 hours. It is now nearly 24 with no call.

Calling back today, demanding HR21's and also asking for a fax # so I can send them print outs of this thread.

Not to mention, the tech on Thursday practically asked for a tip. I couldnt believe it. Take it from a tech who NEVER asked for or took a tip in 16 years. I was amazed. I wanted to physically throw this clown out the door.


----------



## jrodfoo

i was having this problem, and the tech had to replace the connectors at the dish this morning , they were cooroded from the rain, he showed them to me, all 4, the pins were either broken off or very very loose and ready to go, he said that they were recalled shortly after I had my install done, which was in April of 07. We're back in business now.


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## 1080

Like I've mentioned earlier in this thread but I suppose most ignored, I'm a new D* customer and have a brand new HR21-700 and it very much had the 771 issue. So I don't think the HR21 is immune to this.

However, I have found what solved the issue (for me) and it has nothing to do with alignment, etc. What I did was swap the 2 sat inputs in the back of the unit (while leaving the BBC's where they were). It has been rock solid for a while now. I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere but give it a try.


----------



## obxterra

Upgraded from my last DirecTivo they gave me an HR20-100. I had the same issue about every 24 hours. I would have the 771 message on several HD channels. 

The last thing they had me do was to swap the inputs on tuners 1 and 2, no 771 since, now over 24 hours


----------



## Dave from Kazoo

I have been having some 771 problems on some of the HD channels with Hr20-100 with input 1. The two(2) H20's are good to go on all HD channels. Today I did some swapping at the multi switch. Still had the problem with some low signal readings always on sat. 1. Switch BBC's and now everthing is good. Real odd


----------



## Farsight

This issue finally started annoying me enough to really look into it, and I was able to solve it fairly easily on my end:

Reversing the BBCs reversed which tuner would fail on specific channel switches, meaning the Reciever was OK.

Reversing the cables entering the BBCs also reversed which tuner would fail, indicating the BBCs were OK.

Reversing the cables entering the house had no effect on which tuner would fail.

Process of elimination told me to replace the interior cable leading to the failing tuner, which resolved the issue.

It still seems strange that only by tuning in channels in a specific order would the cable cause the signal to drop (and not on the HDTivo when tuning the same channels using the same cables), making me suspect that there is a software fault in the HR20 as well.


----------



## EarDriver

I've had Direct now for almost 2 weeks. Sunday 3/16 I began having the 771 issue. Saturday we received some rain. I've seen the issue on my HD movie channels especially the west ones, on several local HD channels, Sci-Fi, and NGHD. If I reset the HR21 the channel will come in right after the reset completes. My signal for tuners 1 and 2 are 92 for satellite 110 and the other satellites 98 or 100 percent. I check my dish alignment and all looks good. I will attempt some of the troubleshooting and suggested fixes from this forum post. Hopefully I can pinpoint the issue with my setup. I called Direct last night. A tech is scheduled to come out Wednesday. 

My particular setup has only 1 HR21-700. The installer placed my dish on the front of my house close to the electrical meter for grounding purposes. This required about 75 feet worth of cables to be run along the bottom of my house. Now the cables come from the dish into a . The splitter is mounted on the side of my house. The splitter has 4 inputs and outputs. The splitter is not covered. This splitter is the only break in the lines from the Dish to the BBC's. 

I can pretty much say and hope Directv is aware of an issue this apparent and probably scrambling for a fix. Just to Google this issue will result in a huge amount of complaints from customers, and forum post. They have probably reproduced it in their labs. Directv probably creates reports off of logged calls and tracks the number of calls related to "771". One negative is that Directv has a 2 year agreement so they know most customers will stay. 

Please don’t let this forum post die. A continued awareness will most result in a fix.


----------



## Eddie Horton

I'm also having this problem on my HR-20. Tuner 2 fails everytime when running a system test. I've swapped cables, outputs on my WB68, BBC's, and anything else I can think of. No luck. Have a tech coming next week. I'm also getting a message that the LNB output fails. No problems on both of my H-20's.


----------



## trnsfrguy

I had the same "771" problem with ShoHD only, but after awhile it moved over to TNTHD. Directv had me reset, change BBC's, etc. with no change. 
They sent over a tech and he stated that he's been encountering this problem a lot lately and most with no real solution. Luckily, he fixed my problem by re-assembling the dish. 
Apparently, the installer didn't do a good job in assembling the thing in the first place.


----------



## tbakken

I just did an install myself with a Slimline and HR20-100. I was having this 771 problem from time to time. Someone here mentioned adding a patch cord between the BBC and the receiver. THERE IS ONE IN THE BOX... no instructions... infact there is a picture that makes no mention of this cable. I added this on Tuner 2. So far so good. I have to conclude that there would be no other reason to include a piece of RG-6 with one female and one male (extension cord) except for this problem??

*Another thought*: This has to be a phasing problem. There is no change of impedance caused by adding a piece of cable. It only changes when the signal arrives at the receiver. What phasing has to do with this I have no clue but sure would like to know.

Troy


----------



## K4SMX

EarDriver said:


> I've had Direct now for almost 2 weeks. Sunday 3/16 I began having the 771 issue. Saturday we received some rain. I've seen the issue on my HD movie channels especially the west ones, on several local HD channels, Sci-Fi, and NGHD. If I reset the HR21 the channel will come in right after the reset completes. My signal for tuners 1 and 2 are 92 for satellite 110 and the other satellites 98 or 100 percent. I check my dish alignment and all looks good. I will attempt some of the troubleshooting and suggested fixes from this forum post. Hopefully I can pinpoint the issue with my setup. I called Direct last night. A tech is scheduled to come out Wednesday.
> 
> My particular setup has only 1 HR21-700. The installer placed my dish on the front of my house close to the electrical meter for grounding purposes. This required about 75 feet worth of cables to be run along the bottom of my house. Now the cables come from the dish into a . The splitter is mounted on the side of my house. The splitter has 4 inputs and outputs. The splitter is not covered. This splitter is the only break in the lines from the Dish to the BBC's.
> 
> I can pretty much say and hope Directv is aware of an issue this apparent and probably scrambling for a fix. Just to Google this issue will result in a huge amount of complaints from customers, and forum post. They have probably reproduced it in their labs. Directv probably creates reports off of logged calls and tracks the number of calls related to "771". One negative is that Directv has a 2 year agreement so they know most customers will stay.
> 
> Please don't let this forum post die. A continued awareness will most result in a fix.


That "splitter" is not a splitter; it's a grounding block and it should be attached to your electrical service ground.

You appear to be having trouble with signals from the 103(s) satellite (Knoxville local HD's) and the 103(c) satellite (national HD's). Why don't you post your signals on those two satellites only in tp-by-tp grid format. Check both tuners 1 and 2, but only post tuner 2 if those signals are substantially different than tuner 1:

Menu Button > Parental, Fav's and Setup > System Setup > Satellite > View Signal Strength. Left arrow to 103 (c) and 103 (s). 103(s) might be a little slow to "populate" the grid, and there will be a lot of weak signals or zeros, since these are spot beams.

Welcome to DBSTalk.com! And there is not a chance that this forum thread is ever going to die it would appear.


----------



## K4SMX

tbakken said:


> I just did an install myself with a Slimline and HR20-100. I was having this 771 problem from time to time. Someone here mentioned adding a patch cord between the BBC and the receiver. THERE IS ONE IN THE BOX... no instructions... infact there is a picture that makes no mention of this cable. I added this on Tuner 2. So far so good. I have to conclude that there would be no other reason to include a piece of RG-6 with one female and one male (extension cord) except for this problem??
> 
> *Another thought*: This has to be a phasing problem. There is no change of impedance caused by adding a piece of cable. It only changes when the signal arrives at the receiver. What phasing has to do with this I have no clue but sure would like to know.
> 
> Troy


That patch cord in the dish box is for inserting a signal meter in the line at the dish. I'm not sure how long it is, but it is obviously about the correct length to "fix" your "HR20-100 satellite 110 tuner 2 bug."


----------



## K4SMX

Eddie Horton said:


> I'm also having this problem on my HR-20. Tuner 2 fails everytime when running a system test. I've swapped cables, outputs on my WB68, BBC's, and anything else I can think of. No luck. Have a tech coming next week. I'm also getting a message that the LNB output fails. No problems on both of my H-20's.


You should perhaps go through all the satellite signal strength grids under "View Signal Strength," comparing tuner 2 to tuner 1. Maybe then you can provide more info as to what's going on with your receiver. Which model HR20 is it?


----------



## EarDriver

K4SMX I went ahead and posted Tuner 1 just in case something stands out.

Satellite: 103(c)
Tuner: 1
0 94 0 93 0 92 0 94
0 94 0 95 0 95 NA NA
0 NA NA NA NA 96 NA NA
NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA

Satellite: 103(c) 
Tuner: 2
95 95 91 93 92 92 91 94
95 94 95 95 95 95 NA NA
96 NA NA NA NA NA NA NA
NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA 

Satellite: 103(s)
Tuner: 1 
0 0 0 0 0 0 NA NA
NA NA NA NA NA NA 0 93
0 0 0 94 0 0 0 0
NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA

Satellite: 103(s)
Tuner: 2
0 0 0 0 0 0 NA NA
NA NA NA NA NA NA 92 94
96 56 0 94 55 0 95 0
NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA

Thanks for your help.


----------



## K4SMX

EarDriver said:


> K4SMX I went ahead and posted Tuner 1 just in case something stands out.
> 
> Satellite: 103(c)
> Tuner: 1
> *0* 94 *0* 93 *0* 92 *0* 94
> *0* 94 *0* 95 *0* 95 NA NA
> *0* NA NA NA NA 96 NA NA
> NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA
> 
> Satellite: 103(c)
> Tuner: 2
> 95 95 91 93 92 92 91 94
> 95 94 95 95 95 95 NA NA
> 96 NA NA NA NA NA NA NA
> NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA
> 
> Satellite: 103(s)
> Tuner: 1
> 0 0 0 0 0 0 NA NA
> NA NA NA NA NA NA *0* 93
> *0* 0 0 94 *0* 0 *0* 0
> NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA
> 
> Satellite: 103(s)
> Tuner: 2
> 0 0 0 0 0 0 NA NA
> NA NA NA NA NA NA 92 94
> 96 56 0 94 55 0 95 0
> NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA
> 
> Thanks for your help.


Notice that you have no "odds" on 103 tuner 1, just the "even" transponders. It's highly likely that you don't have any odds on the 119 satellite on tuner 1 as well, if this is a cabling/connector problem on the tuner 1 line, since these signals also require 13v + 22khz tone signal voltage. You may not have any odds on 101 tuner 1 either. (13v, no tone)

The first step is to swap the antenna lines to see if the problem moves from tuner 1 to tuner 2. Just the antenna lines, not the BBC's attached to the back of the receiver. If the problem doesn't move, it's not in the cabling/connectors. Then switch the BBC's to see if the bad tuner swaps places, and you can leave the antenna lines in place.

Please look at your 119 odds on tuner 1, and then report the results of the swapping lines and BBC's.


----------



## tbakken

K4SMX said:


> That patch cord in the dish box is for inserting a signal meter in the line at the dish. I'm not sure how long it is, but it is obviously about the correct length to "fix" your "HR20-100 satellite 110 tuner 2 bug."


Hmmm,

Both of my signal meters have female connectors and so does every LNB if have ever seen. This cable has male on one end and female on the other. Installed ten or so older IRDs and they never had a patch cord just to test the signal with. Its almost not long enough for that...would only be about 6 inches comming out of the dish. Not sure... Anyone else get this cable with HR20 or 21...if it is a test cord did anyone get it with H20 or 21? I would love to know. I would call DTV but I don't but they know less about it than we do.

IF YOU ARE HAVING 771 ON SOME HD CHANNELS WITH AN HR-20 RECEIVER I WOULD PUT THIS CABLE IN! Worked for me.

TROY
K6FAA 
www dot k6faa dot com


----------



## Farsight

An update: replacing the faulty cable was only a partial solution for me. The signal is still lower, just not low enough to lose signal completely. Instead, if the tuner is left tuned to one of the 'problematic' channels for a few hours, the sound will eventually drop, and never come back (until you change channels).

I wouldn't be surprised if this problem existed in all HR20 installations, just that many will either have short cable runs (not enough signal loss to see a problem) or don't view the problematic channels, or just don't know enough to recognize a defect in DTV's setup when they see it.


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## K4SMX

tbakken said:


> ...... Anyone else get this cable with HR20 or 21...if it is a test cord did anyone get it with H20 or 21? I would love to know. I would call DTV but I don't but they know less about it than we do.
> 
> IF YOU ARE HAVING 771 ON SOME HD CHANNELS WITH AN HR-20 RECEIVER I WOULD PUT THIS CABLE IN! Worked for me.
> 
> TROY
> K6FAA
> www dot k6faa dot com


It's not in the receiver box; it's in the Slimline box. It's used at the dish so that the LNB doesn't have to be removed in order to insert a signal meter for re-alignment. It has a female on one end so that when connected to the antenna line no permanent barrel adapter is required.

Welcome to DBSTalk.com!


----------



## K4SMX

Farsight said:


> ,,,,,Also interesting is that when I flip channels, the new channels tends to also display a different but corrupt (random blocks of data) image for a brief instant before correcting. *Also, if I watch the channel live, gradually over time the signal strength will drop. After 15 minutes or so, the image starts to get small glitches and audio drops.* If not corrected by switching channels back and forth, the signal eventually drops low enough for the 771 error. The low signal will never improve on its own, but switching channels to force the tuner to re-tune always works.
> 
> *I'll give the mini-extension cable trick a try* when I have some time to tinker with things again (and no recordings are scheduled).


This is not a typical characteristic of the HR20-100 Sat 110 Tuner 2 Bug. Did you ever try the 3' patch cord?



Farsight said:


> .....*Reversing the BBCs reversed which tuner would fail on specific channel switches, meaning the Reciever was OK.*


This means that you should try replacing your BBC's.....



Farsight said:


> *.....Reversing the cables entering the BBCs also reversed which tuner would fail, indicating the BBCs were OK.
> 
> Reversing the cables entering the house had no effect on which tuner would fail.
> 
> Process of elimination told me to replace the interior cable leading to the failing tuner, which resolved the issue.....*


What's the difference here? Are you saying you reversed them out at the grounding block? This sounds like a separate issue with that cable only.



Farsight said:


> An update: replacing the faulty cable was only a partial solution for me. The signal is still lower, just not low enough to lose signal completely. *Instead, if the tuner is left tuned to one of the 'problematic' channels for a few hours, the sound will eventually drop, and never come back (until you change channels)*.


Your facts are not entirely characteristic of the problem most are reporting lately with the HR20-100's on the 110 satellite, tuner 2 only. You may have that problem, but that's not all you have. I think you should get on the phone and get DirecTV to send you some replacement BBC's, based on what you have reported here so far. It's clear that you also had some problem with one of your antenna lines, which you corrected. From what you've posted, you still have not tried the 3' patch cord between the BBC and the receiver on tuner 2, and your BBC's are suspect. It appears you possibly have three different problems, and you've fixed one of them.



Farsight said:


> *I wouldn't be surprised if this problem existed in all HR20 installations*, just that many will either have short cable runs (not enough signal loss to see a problem) or don't view the problematic channels, or just don't know enough to recognize a defect in DTV's setup when they see it.


That question has been asked and answered. Not all HR20-100's are effected. Although you may well be right that quite a few more may be effected than have been detected by users. Most people never check their tuner 2 signal levels on 110, and if they had signals in the 60's and 70's, they probably wouldn't notice the problem. It's only when they get in the 40's and 50's that the 771's start showing up on the 110 channels, 70, 71, and 73-78.


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## kane2299

I am also a new customer having this same problem. I'm not getting two HD channels, HDNet and ESPN2HD. When the Installer first came about 3 weeks ago, everything worked fine, after a heavy rain storm I lost just these two channels. The sent a tech out last week and he said the problem was due to a tree in the way and left. I called D* back and said this was unacceptable as these channels worked before and now they no longer work, they are sending someone back out today to see about moving where the initial installer mounted the dish. However, after reading this topic I'm wondering if where the dish is located is affecting the problem. I have two receivers, the main receiver, the one with the problem is a HR21-200 the second receiver is just a R15-500 that doesn't get HD channels. When I originally called into D* for the first call regarding the problem they had me go through a signal check and the person I spoke with said all of my signal levels were fine. I'm thinking about changing the cables going into the back of the receiver along with the BBC connectors based on what I've read in this topic but any other suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.


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## Eddie Horton

K4SMX said:


> You should perhaps go through all the satellite signal strength grids under "View Signal Strength," comparing tuner 2 to tuner 1. Maybe then you can provide more info as to what's going on with your receiver. Which model HR20 is it?


I get zeros across the board for every transponder on every satellite on tuner 2. It appears this tuner may have gone kaput in my HR-20 100.


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## K4SMX

kane2299 said:


> I am also a new customer having this same problem. I'm not getting two HD channels, HDNet and ESPN2HD. When the Installer first came about 3 weeks ago, everything worked fine, after a heavy rain storm I lost just these two channels. The sent a tech out last week and he said the problem was due to a tree in the way and left......


It _is_ true that those two channels come from the 119 satellite, which is ~20 degrees to the right and ~25 degrees above the center-line of the dish, which is aimed at the 101 satellite. (The ~25 degrees comes from the fact that the LNB is offset from the center-line of the dish.) It doesn't explain why you were able to receive it previously, unless that's a mighty fast-growing tree.

Take a look at all your satellite signal strengths. If your 103(c)'s (national HD's) are mostly all in the 90's where they should be, but your 119's are low across the board, there's probably a line-of-sight issue. It _is_ possible that if your 119's are zero across the board, the 119 section of your LNB died.

Menu Button > Parental, Fav's and Setup > System Setup > Satellite > View Signal Strength. Use the arrows on the remote to change to 103(c) and 119. Be sure and check both tuners.

Welcome to DBSTalk.com!


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## K4SMX

Eddie Horton said:


> I'm also having this problem on my HR-20. Tuner 2 fails everytime when running a system test. I've swapped cables, outputs on my WB68, BBC's, and anything else I can think of. No luck. Have a tech coming next week. I'm also getting a message that the LNB output fails. No problems on both of my H-20's.





Eddie Horton said:


> I get zeros across the board for every transponder on every satellite on tuner 2. It appears this tuner may have gone kaput in my HR-20 100.


It sure does.....have you ever done a Menu > ---- > Reset > Restart Recorder, powered down, and pulled the plug on that thing for a couple of hours before it has a chance to re-start?


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## kane2299

K4SMX, are there any other channels that come from that satellite though? Because there are no other HD channels having any problems.

Update:
Here are my levels 

119 T1
1-8 All NA
9-16 All NA
17-24 NA NA NA NA NA 0 74 0
25-32 0 0 0 0 51 0 60 0

119 T2
1-8 All NA
9-16 All NA
17-24 NA NA NA NA NA 0 74 0
25-32 0 0 0 0 49 0 60 0

103(c) T1
1-8 97 95 95 93 95 94 95 94
9-16 95 94 95 95 95 95 NA NA
17-24 95 NA NA NA NA 95 NA NA
25-32 All NA

103(c) T2
1-8 97 95 95 93 95 94 95 94
9-16 95 93 94 95 95 95 NA NA
17-24 94 NA NA NA NA 96 NA NA
25-32 All NA


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## K4SMX

Probably not any that you are supposed to receive, unless you have a waiver for east coast DNS stations (ABC NY, CBS NY, etc.)

Your 103(c)'s look great, but the 119's are terrible. How 'bout that tree? Can you visually confirm it's the probable culprit?


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## Eddie Horton

K4SMX said:


> It sure does.....have you ever done a Menu > ---- > Reset > Restart Recorder, powered down, and pulled the plug on that thing for a couple of hours before it has a chance to re-start?


I have not, but will give it a try. Thanks for your help, btw. It is much appreciated.


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## EarDriver

K4SMX

Switched tuner 1 and 2 not switching the BBC's.

103(s) Tuner 2 which is now connected to tuner 1
0 0 0 0 0 0 NA NA
NA NA NA NA NA NA 94 92
96 46 0 94 54 0 96 0
NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA

103(s) Tuner 1 which is now connected to turner 2
0 0 0 0 0 0 NA NA
NA NA NA NA NA NA 0 0
0 0 0 94 0 0 0 0
NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA

103(c) Tuner 1 which is connected to 2
0 94 0 92 0 92 0 94
0 93 0 95 0 95 NA NA
0 NA NANA NA NA NA NA
All NA

103(c) Tuner 2 which is connected to 1
95 95 89 92 92 92 91 94
94 93 94 95 95 95 NA NA
96 NA NA NA NA 96 NA NA
All NA

I then switched the BBC's and placed the correct antenna line. Tuner 1 is still showing zeros for odds. What additional information do you need or troubleshooting steps I can perform.


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## K4SMX

I take it that "Tuner 1" (big "T") means the antenna line that _was_ connected to the Sat In 1 input ("tuner 1"). That is that you're saying you swapped the antenna lines, but not the BBC's in Step 1.

Then I think you're saying that in Step 2 you put the original antenna line back on Sat In 1 (tuner 1), but you swapped the BBC's, and now the problem has switched back to tuner 1 on the menu pages.

If this is all correct, the BBC's are OK, and there's a problem in the antenna line you had originally connected to the Sat In 1 (tuner 1) input. You'll need to check all the connectors in that line by removing them and inspecting for corrosion or perhaps a tiny piece of the braid shorting across to the center conductor (looking into the end of the connector.) Be especially aware of connectors that were loose and both sides of wall plate pass-through adapters.

It's very common in new installations to find loose connectors, including those connected to the LNB inside the LNB support arm, but especially at the grounding block where the lines enter the house. Any slight corrosion build up in a loose connector can interrupt a 13v switching current, but an 18v one will make it across the corrosion. Re-tighten all connectors until just snug with a 7/16" wrench.

Also make sure there's no diplexers for OTA antennas or cable TV-type splitters installed somewhere in this cable line from some previous installation.


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## tbakken

K4SMX said:


> It's not in the receiver box; it's in the Slimline box. It's used at the dish so that the LNB doesn't have to be removed in order to insert a signal meter for re-alignment. It has a female on one end so that when connected to the antenna line no permanent barrel adapter is required.
> 
> Welcome to DBSTalk.com!


This cable was not in the Slimline box. I am absolutely possitive because I put the slimline up several days before I received the IRD. The night that I opened the box for the IRD I couldn't figure out what it was for. It is kinda short...like 20" (I haven't measured it) I thought it might have something to do with the RF Remote port that I am not using so I put it back in the box. Won't work for what you are suggesting...and just how many times am I going to realign this dish??? I hope never like all my other installs. By the way the it is still working with this cable in...take it out and 771. DirecTV owes everyone and explaination on this one.

Troy


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## K4SMX

OK.


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## Keane

Last Saturday I finally had a tech come to start the process of figuring out the problem. After going through the standard steps of narrowing down the problem, he agreed it was strictly a Tuner 2 issue with the HR20-100. He replaced all the connections inside and outside of the house, replaced the BBC converters (now my 4th pair) and replaced the box with a new HR20-100 as a test of last resort. 

It's finally been a few days without any problems, but then again, I haven't fully recovered my list of programs to record which was HD heavy. Who knows if the issue will reappear, but for now, it's working smoothly.


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## bmeeks8

I have the "771...searching for signal" issue as well, but mine is with an HR20-700. It alternates between Tuner 1 or Tuner 2 sort of randomly. Here is more info that makes me think software is at the heart of the issue.

I have a HR20-100 and a HR20-700 on the same Zinwell switch (the standard 5x8 model that comes with HD installs) and Slimline dish. Signals on 101 are all 95 and higher with 13 transponders at 100 on both receivers. Signals from 103c are in the low to mid 90s on all active transponders. My dish has been tweaked.

Sometimes I turn on the HR20-700 and the current channel is blank and "searching for signal"  on either tuner 1 or 2. It varies. Downstairs on my HR20-100 both tuners are fine. To me that rules out the dish. Since the affected tuner on the -700 varies, that eliminates cabling and the multi-switch in my mind since both tuners see the problem and are different cables and different switch ports. All cabling is RG6 Quad-Shield.

Everytime this happens, all it takes is rebooting the HR20-700 from the menu and the problem is fixed (until it happens again some hours or days later). I have found two things that will trigger it. First, if I change channels on the -700 rapidly, I can frequently cause the 771 error. Once you get it, you can only clear it by rebooting. Another thing that will trigger it is actually losing signal on a tuner due to rain fade. I'm in the deep south and we have "frog strangling" thunderstorms down here...:lol: When you lose signal on a tuner in the HR20-700, it frequently never comes back until you reboot. My downstairs HR20-100 recovers fine during the same event on either tuner.

This all makes me think software is the heart of the problem. Otherwise, why does a simple reboot fix it? I don't touch cables or BBCs, I just reboot and it's fixed- no matter which tuner was having the 771 issue.

This started- to the best of my recollection- when code was added to support the SWM. At least around the time I started seeing guys with SWMs in the CE forum talking about seeing version info for the SWM on the setup screens, I started seeing this irritating 771 problem.


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## tbakken

Adding the cable helped for a few days...back to 771. Only on Tuner 2...never Tuner 1...and only on 110 Satelite.


????

Troy


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## K4SMX

tbakken said:


> Adding the cable helped for a few days...back to 771. Only on Tuner 2...never Tuner 1...and only on 110 Satelite.
> 
> ????
> 
> Troy


Why don't you try a 3' cable, which seems to work for quite a few folks, instead of that shorter one you're using?


----------



## tbakken

Forget the 3 foot cable fix. Its all started again. It looks like if Tuner 1 is tied up recording something SD on the 101 Satelite then Tuner 2 cannot tune to 110. Channels 70-75 are all 771. 

DirecTV refuses to send me a new box until a Tech comes out. Please someone come up for an answer to this. Are all of these HR20 people online are talking about dead... This is a large problem and DirecTV needs to address it.

Troy


----------



## Cobra

i had several visits from the techs who kept bringing refurbished units, after 5 bad hrs 3 700s and 2 100s, a new slimline dish, relocated the dish, ran completely new cableling from the dish to the receiver, and several new bbc's. I finally was asigned to a case mananger and he sent me a hr21-200 straight from there warehouse brand new, with a production date of 2/29/08 so when I received it, it was about 2 weeks old, it doesnt have an ota connection, but it is working flawlessly, and with the am21 coming out in the near future, thats fine with me. Hopefully you will get to talk to a good csr who will transfer you to a case worker who will actually take the time to listen and help you, instead of telling you to reset the freakin' receiver a million times:nono2:


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## capdood

I, for one, am still having the same issues and was hoping that I would find a solution as I approached today's date in the thread.... Then nothing after the middle of March.

Am I now the only one with Searching For Satellite issues?


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## 996911

I still have the 771. I have NOT done the 3' cord patch that has been rec'd just yet. Although I will do it I have just been doing a rest from time to time which fixes it EVERY time. Sad isn't it?


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## jungle1

capdood said:


> I, for one, am still having the same issues and was hoping that I would find a solution as I approached today's date in the thread.... Then nothing after the middle of March.
> 
> Am I now the only one with Searching For Satellite issues?


Nope, I have the same problems. Biggest offender for me is ESPNHD.


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## 996911

For me, the biggest offender is Discovery HD THeater (Ch 76 I believe).


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## capdood

Sounds like this problem is still without a solution. Still curious as to why there was daily discusion on this issue, and then nothing after March 22. I thought there might be another thread where this topic was continued, but evidently not.

I think that it is now time to admit that DTV cannot fix this 771 problem -- and time for me to switch providers. 

I have been a direct deposit DTV subscriber for 7 years -- and a subscriber to virtually every sports package offered. I have stayed with DTV through these problems because of the NFL Ticket. But I can no longer justify all the missed recordings, all the ugly phone calls from my family, and the incredible frustration I have experienced while hoping that the 771 problem goes away -- or is solved. Unfortunately, it seems like neither is imminent.

And to hell with DTV if they think they are going to get me for an early cancellation fee. I am ANGRY when I think about the countless hours of work I have missed while waiting for service calls, and I am willing to spend the same amount of time fighting such a penalty if it comes to it. 

ALL I EVER WANTED WAS FOR DIRECT TV TO DELIVER THE SERVICE THEY PROMISED -- AND THAT I PAY LAVISHLY FOR EACH MONTH.

Is that really too much to ask? Apparently so. 

Call me depressed in Berkeley....And facing an NFL season of watching 49er and Raider telecasts only. You would be depressed too!


----------



## Keane

After finally having a case manager assigned for this issue, I got an HR20-700 that hasn't had the "Searching for..." issues that I had with the HR20-100. 

Unfortunately, you just need to keep pushing the issue with DTV until you get a box that works.


----------



## K4SMX

capdood said:


> Sounds like this problem is still without a solution......
> 
> .....Call me depressed in Berkeley....And facing an NFL season of watching 49er and Raider telecasts only. You would be depressed too!


I think I'd stay any action until after the next NR software is downloaded. This problem, which I was having with an _HR21_-100, went away with one of the CE software D/L's some weeks ago. It shouldn't be too much longer. Although the problem preceeded the current 0x1fe, there were a lot of _other_ problems with that NR that are pressing for a new NR....


----------



## kinsale

Hopefully someone can help me here. i got the dreaded 771 error after a recent rain storm and afterwards had no HD locals. Called DTV and they told me to reboot. Locals came back. However only one tuner is working, the other has no signal. i tried rebooting a few times to no avail. Any ideas?? 
thanks!


----------



## K4SMX

This is most likely a cable or connector problem. Swap cables but not BBC's at the rear of the receiver and see if the problem moves to the other tuner. If not, then swap the BBC's and check again. If swapping just the cables moves the problem, then remove and check the connectors on that line from the receiver to the dish (if practical) for looseness or corrosion inside the connector. Re-tighten until just snug with a 7/16" wrench. You might as well check all of them while you're at it.


----------



## grantyn

Thanks for the information passed on in this thread. I was having problems with the "Searching for satellite 771" error, but was out of town when it started (couldn't get my Slingbox to work).

I went out and checked my antenna and found that a very shoddy installation had been done by the D* tech. The mast was off plumb (several of the bolts were loose) and the LNBs were not even screwed into the boom. After replumbing the mast and securing the LNBs I had to readjust the azimuth and elevation, but finally got good signals on all the birds.

Thanks again for pointing me in the right direction.


----------



## Farsight

K4SMX said:


> I think I'd stay any action until after the next NR software is downloaded. This problem, which I was having with an HR21-100, went away with one of the CE software D/L's some weeks ago.


Boy, I hope so. I'm also pretty sure my issue is a software problem, so this makes me hopeful.

After replacing cables, I improved my signal strength just a bit, which eliminated the 771... but the signal strength still dips, it causes glitches instead of complete signal loss. It still affects only one tuner, and still is fixed by a reset.

The thing that makes me really certain it's software is how the problem manifests: the channel tunes in perfectly for exactly 2 seconds, then glitches briefly EVERY TIME, then displays perfectly for a fairly predictable amount of time (probably 5 minutes), then glitches briefly again, and repeats this sequence forever. The glitch is always a similar severity (a small band of the screen in the same location pixelates for half a second, sometimes sound drops for the same half second). Since it only happens on one tuner and only on one reciever, is extremely predictable, and is fixed by rebooting, the computer programmer in me thinks software.

So, I guess I'll wait for the next update before starting up the tech support process. Hopefully it'll be fixed and I can skip the migraines that would induce.


----------



## GutBomb

I have experienced a similar issue, sometimes the mpeg2 HD channels would show "searching for satellite" but only when recording something else at the same time. i checked the back of my receiver and all connections were tight, but just moving my BBCs around (not unplugging them or anything, just moving them over an inch on the shelf) made the signal come in. I've been too lazy to call D* to ask for new BBCs.


----------



## capdood

capdood said:


> Sounds like this problem is still without a solution. Still curious as to why there was daily discusion on this issue, and then nothing after March 22. I thought there might be another thread where this topic was continued, but evidently not.
> 
> I think that it is now time to admit that DTV cannot fix this 771 problem -- and time for me to switch providers.
> 
> I have been a direct deposit DTV subscriber for 7 years -- and a subscriber to virtually every sports package offered. I have stayed with DTV through these problems because of the NFL Ticket. But I can no longer justify all the missed recordings, all the ugly phone calls from my family, and the incredible frustration I have experienced while hoping that the 771 problem goes away -- or is solved. Unfortunately, it seems like neither is imminent.
> 
> And to hell with DTV if they think they are going to get me for an early cancellation fee. I am ANGRY when I think about the countless hours of work I have missed while waiting for service calls, and I am willing to spend the same amount of time fighting such a penalty if it comes to it.
> 
> ALL I EVER WANTED WAS FOR DIRECT TV TO DELIVER THE SERVICE THEY PROMISED -- AND THAT I PAY LAVISHLY FOR EACH MONTH.
> 
> Is that really too much to ask? Apparently so.
> 
> Call me depressed in Berkeley....And facing an NFL season of watching 49er and Raider telecasts only. You would be depressed too!


Well.... after speaking to Retention today, they asked me to give it one more shot by sending out a SENIOR Tech to assess the situation. I have an appointment scheduled for tomorrow between 8 and Noon.

It was depressing to learn that this SPECIALIST had never heard of this problem, and he seemed impatient listening about it.

I will provide an update.


----------



## Polychron

This is going to be a little long winded and not very technical and I apologize. However, I could use some feedback before I call DTV...

2 hr20's
cable runs from dish under ground in conduit to house

Back in Jan., I experienced the 771 message. First on some random HD channels and then across all channels. Picture would break up and then go to 771. Finally I went all black with 771 on ALL channels. If I forced to the other tuner (record the 771 and then change channels) we were good.

Tech came out and followed signal strength back to the dish. His diagnosis was a bad cable run to one tuner. I have two tv's both hr20 dvr's and the second was not affected. We switched cable feeds so that the downstairs tv received the good signal(s) and the other became affecetd. We left off the "bad" tuner and the upstairs tv became the bad one. We plugged in only 1 tuner and left the bad one off. He said the bad cable run was somewhere in the conduit under ground so he wouldn't touch it as they don't touch stuff that goes underground.(?)

TV fine downstairs and upstairs just no 2 tuner action upstairs. So no watching and recording something else. Fine.

Now about a week ago, upstairs tv has gone black with 771 on all channels. Meaning the feed that was "good" has now gone to the bad side. And this morning, downstairs tv is 771 on all but a few random channels on both tuners. 

So, it doesn't look like it could be a cable issue could it? I can buy one cable run going bad but now all four? FWIW, I get channel 100 on the upstairs box that is totally dark (771) but the banner says PPV previews and the channel is actually showing the "chiller" channel.

Any thoughts? I would like to sound like I know what I'm talking about when I call DTV. And yes, many, many resets and unplugs.

Thank you kindly for your assistance.
-Ben


----------



## K4SMX

Ben, why don't you run those receivers one-at-a-time straight to the dish with a couple of short, temporary lines and a small TV just to see what you've got. You _could_ have more bad cables. You don't know yet why the _first_ one allegedly went bad. Let's eliminate the cables as a problem first. Then it's either a bad LNB or _two_ bad receivers. I assume you've replaced your BBC's. If not, new ones are free for the asking in 2 days. Of course you can check all your channels except the 103(c) national HD's with _no_ BBC's. Also be sure and check all your connectors for looseness or corrosion.


----------



## KieliM

I've had the "Searching for sattelite.." problems, on and off, since December. It would mostly happen at night. I've had numerous visits from DirectTV, and they replaced every single component of the cable plant at least once, without much result. Finally, last weekend I discovered what was causing the problem.

In my case, it was the XBOX360 unit connected to the same circuit. It wasn't even on. But it has a large transformer between the XBOX box and the power outlet, and this transformer was corrupting the quality of the power supply enough to cause the problem. Once I disconnected the XBOX system (including its transformer), everything is O.K. since then.


----------



## jwd45244

This thread also describes the problem: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=126433 Apparently, there is a fix coming.


----------



## mac707

Hi all, 

First post here but I came looking for answers to this exact issue and found this thread . 

For me all my sats and transponders are working correct EXCEPT Sat 110 on Tuner 2 which gives me 0's across all 3 transponders. I disconned the BBC and that fixed the issue but as soon as I flip through a few channels and go back to the ones that give me trouble....Sat 110 on tuner 2 is back to all zeros. 

Just thought I'd chime in I guess as confirmation that whatever update they have planned for this hasn't come down the pipe yet. It's immensely frustrating as ESPNHD is one of my most frequently watched channels but oh well...


----------



## K4SMX

mac707 said:


> .....I disconned the BBC and that fixed the issue but as soon as I flip through a few channels and go back to the ones that give me trouble....Sat 110 on tuner 2 is back to all zeros......


Are you saying then that your 110 tuner 2 quits working properly _after_ removing its BBC, or did you put the BBC back on? If the former, that may be a different problem, possibly requiring a new receiver. What are your signals like on the other satellites, comparing tuner 2 to tuner 1? My own experience was that tuner 2 worked fine on 110 all the time with no BBC.

Welcome to DBSTalk.com!


----------



## mac707

K4SMX said:


> Are you saying then that your 110 tuner 2 quits working properly _after_ removing its BBC, or did you put the BBC back on? If the former, that may be a different problem, possibly requiring a new receiver. What are your signals like on the other satellites, comparing tuner 2 to tuner 1? My own experience was that tuner 2 worked fine on 110 all the time with no BBC.
> 
> Welcome to DBSTalk.com!


Sorry I wasn't more specific. I disconned the BBC then hooked it back up again, which fixed the issue temporarily. This is on an HR20-100 btw.

This is probably a noob question, but if the BBC isn't necessary then what exactly is it's function?


----------



## K4SMX

Oh it's necessary all right. It's required to receive the Ka lo satellites: 103(c) (and 99(c) when it's parked and goes live.) This is a software issue whereby some HR20-100's won't receive adequate signals on 110 tuner 2 after once having been tuned to 103(c) after a reboot. The proof is that when you temporarily remove the tuner 2 BBC, it works fine on 110.

They'll eventually figure out exactly what causes this. There are quite a few -100's out there with this problem, mostly all refurbs. (HR20-100-R) A couple of folks have found that if you place a 3' RG6 patch cord between the receiver and the BBC (requires a double female F adapter), the 110 tuner 2 signals are improved enough to allow reception.

At least 2 other folks reported they "fixed" the problem by obscuring half of the 119 LNB feed horn (the one farthest from the center) with aluminum foil, thereby reducing slightly the 119 signal strength. We have no real idea for sure why either of these work or whether they work in all cases, but you're welcome to try. The only other alternative for an immediate fix is a different model receiver.


----------



## Farsight

As noted, getting a new reciever seems to be a surefire fix, as long as it's not just another HR20-100. 

I had this issue, and also got 'lucky' and got the lockups/black-screen issues with the new software update (makes me wonder if those are related), so I finally made DTV swap out my reciever. A new HR21-200 has resolved the 771 issue, and given me my first glitch-free TV since I retired my Tivo. It's nice to not always have the DVR trying to annoy me when I just want to watch a show. 

Frankly, we're all paying enough to demand a working product. If the issue bothers you at all, and the fixes listed here either don't work 100%, or seem like more effort than reprogramming a new reciever, I'd strongly suggest just demanding a swap-out. We shouldn't have to just live with buggy hardware, and we shouldn't have to jury-rig funky Macgyver-esque workarounds that may not completely work, or work in the long-term (who knows if any of these fixes will still work when the new satellite goes live). My new reciever came in 2 days at no-charge, with pre-paid shipping for the returning reciever. An hour or so of re-entering settings was well worth it to me to dump the junk DVR they dropped on me a few months ago. DTV can worry about what's wrong with my old HR20, I just want to watch TV.


----------



## K4SMX

Completely understandable. I'm sure it's not the "re-programming" that makes us HR owners unwilling to throw in the towel on a particular problem receiver. It's the hours of recorded video on the HD which can't be transferred except to SD DVD.


----------



## Farsight

K4SMX said:


> I'm sure it's not the "re-programming" that makes us HR owners unwilling to throw in the towel on a particular problem receiver. It's the hours of recorded video on the HD which can't be transferred except to SD DVD.


I used it as an excuse to veg out and clear out out the old DVR over the weekend.


----------



## mac707

As a follow up on my situation. I called D* customer svc yesterday and after confirming that I'd already done their suggested fixes (to no avail) they agreed to send a new receiver. I requested an HR21 but the lady wouldn't approve it since she said the issue happens with those too, I know that's not true but I figure I'll give one chance w/ an HR20 then, if it's bugged as well then call back and more...firmly...request an HR21.


----------



## Farsight

They also wouldn't gaurantee me an HR21... but then they sent one anyway. Besides not being a lemon, it's a nice sleek black, with kess bright front panel lights, and a bigger hard drive, so I liked it better even before using it.


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## 996911

mac707 said:


> As a follow up on my situation. I called D* customer svc yesterday and after confirming that I'd already done their suggested fixes (to no avail) they agreed to send a new receiver. I requested an HR21 but the lady wouldn't approve it since she said the issue happens with those too, I know that's not true but I figure I'll give one chance w/ an HR20 then, if it's bugged as well then call back and more...firmly...request an HR21.


Amazing that they can't fix this yet and at the same time tell you that the -21 has the same issue! I am so tired of not being able to watch TNT-HD for the NBA playoffs and forced to watch the SD channel. I'm giving this to the end of the year (after NFL  ) and then will make a decision about my future with this.


----------



## K4SMX

996911 said:


> Amazing that they can't fix this yet and at the same time tell you that the -21 has the same issue! I am so tired of not being able to watch TNT-HD for the NBA playoffs and forced to watch the SD channel. I'm giving this to the end of the year (after NFL  ) and then will make a decision about my future with this.


If you have an HR20-100, and you're having trouble with the tuner 2 110 satellite channels, you always have the option of either a)temporarily removing your tuner 2 BBC for specific TNT games you want to watch or record, or b)swapping tuners if you just want to watch: CH A > CH B > CH C > CH A.

You might find it handy to get some push-on F adapters to make it easy to temporarily remove a BBC from the antenna line. I use these for quick removal of the antenna lines from DirecTV receivers during lightning storms.

The fact that people are still having this issue after yet another national release software is making me start to think they either can't or don't know how to correct this problem, although somehow it definitely went away in an HR21-100 I have. I don't think it's a widespread issue, however, with the HR21's. Mine was just one out of 25 in the initial batch we tested. No one else had the problem. Enough time has passed so that these receivers should now be replaced with HR21/AM21 combo's.


----------



## bongju

Can anybody having this problem verify if it still exists with the 0x022D software update?


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## TomA

Since loading the latest CE update for the HR20-700 on Friday night, the OTA channels have not given me this error. Previously it happpened consistently on 13-1.

However, I also changed some cabling in one of the runs on Thursday, so it's hard to tell if it's because of the CE.


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## mac707

Another update:

I don't know if it's blind luck or if the D* CS rep realized that HR21's do NOT have this issue after we spoke but a shiny HR21 showed up at my house last night (despite her assertation that they would only send an HR20). I hooked it up last night but couldn't activate until this morning because their account mgmt system was down. In the couple minutes I played with the HR21 everything seemed to work perfectly.


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## K4SMX

mac707 said:


> Another update:
> 
> I don't know if it's blind luck or if the D* CS rep realized that HR21's do NOT have this issue after we spoke but a shiny HR21 showed up at my house last night (despite her assertation that they would only send an HR20). I hooked it up last night but couldn't activate until this morning because their account mgmt system was down. In the couple minutes I played with the HR21 everything seemed to work perfectly.


Yup! :righton:


----------



## direfan

Well I have the HR-21 700 and am repeatedly getting the Searching message. I ma really frustrated with the receiver. At DTV guy is supposed to show up on Sat but in the meantime, I am wondering whether I should just ask the CSR to send me a different receiver.


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## K4SMX

HD channels, SD channels, or both? What are your tp signal strengths on 103(c)?


----------



## lander215

Got the error on a brand new HR-21...reset it and it's been working perfectly since then (about two weeks).


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## dcowboy7

lander215 said:


> Got the error on a brand new HR-21...reset it and it's been working perfectly since then (about two weeks).


yep same here on new hr21-200....got 771 message....rebooted....ok now.


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## Jotas

Had the same issue start occurring about a day ago. This is annoying. Attempting the fixes that some have posted thus far no luck. I may call the local installers that came about two weeks ago when they were supposed to investigate and possibly resolve my issue with the local HDs being lost even in very minor rain fall.


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## dinotheo

dcowboy7 said:


> yep same here on new hr21-200....got 771 message....rebooted....ok now.


I've got 4 HR20's and 2 HR21's. I get 771 errors very often on the HR21's. I've not gotten them on the HR20's. It is getting to be very annoying. A reset fixes the problem. But if I don't turn the tv on to notice the 771 error, it misses recordings. It seems to happen during bad weather. If I lose sat signal, the HR21's flake out with 771 errors necessitating a reboot.
I've paid for a company to come out and fine tune my dish. My signals are in the 90's across the board. I have a powered WB616.

My old HR10's are like the energizer bunny...they keep going and going. Never any problems.


----------



## 996911

Unless we are in the middle of bad weather, I am happy to report that adding a 3' RG6 and a F type connector between the BBC on tuner 2 and the box has worked like a champ! No 771's since then...**knocking on wood, crossing fingers, etc  **


----------



## techdimwit

I have an HR20 and have had frequent, persistent 771 problems which a reset usually fixed, however over the last few months, we've gotten the 771 on Food NetworkHD and nothing we did fixed the problem. The SD 231 came in just fine. We changed the BBC's which didn't help. Hadn't called D* because they usually seemed clueless or wanted to send me a new receiver. 

We finally had a tech guy come out today and found that we had some problems. When we had the Slimline dish installed in August, 2007, apparently the guy did a crappy job. Without going into detail (except for the fact that there were missing parts), the dish was basically moving with every wind that came along and the guy that came today said with any more strong wind storms, the dish might have fallen off the house. It was that bad. Anyway, this guy installed the dish correctly and all channels are present and accounted for - including 231HD. Our transponder numbers weren't good but they were adequate to get all but that one channel. The numbers are now very high. I'm not sure the 771 problem will be gone for good but have high hopes that the dish might have been the problem. Fingers crossed because we are sick to death of resetting this thing.


----------



## meladdin

I have researched this topic and no one has one definitive fix. Is there a real fix D* CR has helped with? I had 771 errors off and on. Resets always worked but not this time. I can get the HD's on the 70's channels. 

I figure D* should have this addressed by now.


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## meladdin

presto...I didn't do anything and 771 error is gone. This is stupid.


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## K4SMX

996911 said:


> Unless we are in the middle of bad weather, I am happy to report that adding a 3' RG6 and a F type connector between the BBC on tuner 2 and the box has worked like a champ! No 771's since then...**knocking on wood, crossing fingers, etc  **


Don't touch _anything_...... Just kidding, but someone did report that moving that 3' cable around made changes, which is typical with transmission lines in out-of-balance circuits.


----------



## bgeoff

Have been having persistent 771 / bad Tuner 2 HD input for months on my HR-20--just read this thread, and tried the 3 foot RG6 & F-connector. It seems to have exorcised the demons so far--can now click through from 72 to 78 and see all the HD channels without a 771. In Baltimore MD. Thanks to the bright folks at DBStalk for the thinking/workaround.


----------



## 996911

Awesome to hear BGEOFF!!! Now the real kicker is going to be the day that a CSR rec'd that technique :lol:


----------



## K4SMX

996911 said:


> ...... Now the real kicker is going to be the day that a CSR rec'd that technique :lol:


That would be an embarrassing admission of an inability to figure out the cause of this troublesome issue. An even funnier CSR rec' would be: "Cover over half the 119 LNB with aluminum foil." Shades of tin foil blobs on the rabbit ears....


----------



## Talos4

I have a similar issue with 771 except, 

I lost ALL my MPEG4 channels on my HR21-700 yesterday AM. Watching Discovery HD, Changed channels to another HD channel and 771. 

My H20 is working just fine. All signal strengths on 103 (c) 119 are all in the upper 80's to mid 90's. On the HR21 goose eggs, 99 is extremely slow to register on HR21 and then it's all zero's. 

If it helps I have the sidecar dish with no LOS issues. nearest tress are at least 150' away. I checked all connections and connectors at the dish, multi switch box. All fine.

I moved my H20 to the same location as the HR21, connected each cable to the H20 input and each worked fine. I'm watching the H20 without issues. 

I've had the same dish set up for nearly 2 years and no issues. I've had the DVR for about 3 months. 

I tried everything suggested in this thread, (although I didn't move the 3 footer around) No Joy. 

For the first time in 12 years I called in for a tech visit. Before the CSR asked all the questions I told him I had done all the usual rebooting, checking connections, No bad weather in the area etc. 

I have a sneaking suspicion my DVR might be toast.


----------



## Jotas

So I finally got the installer back in the house and lo and behold the second tuner was bad on my HR20-700. It got replaced with the HR21-100 so I'm somewhat satisfied. I was disappointed I was not able to get a chance to watch or record the movies that were saved on my HR20-700.


----------



## dcowboy7

Jotas said:


> So I finally got the installer back in the house and lo and behold the second tuner was bad on my HR20-700. It got replaced with the HR21-100 so I'm somewhat satisfied. I was disappointed I was not able to get a chance to watch or record the movies that were saved on my HR20-700.


then u need to update your list.


----------



## avmaster

causes for 771 on HD channels only-

1. Poorly aligned dish
2. Poorly mounted dish that moves in wind/etc
3. Line of site being effected by interference from trees / and or other objects
4. Diplexer or other device inline which effectively flters out the higher band siginals
5. Improper multiswitch 
6. Bad cable / fittings
7. Bad B-band converter
8. Bad reciver
9. Bad LMB

I think that just about covers it, the most common cause of problems on most installs is just old/crappy fittings and or cable. Pull off your wall plates and take a look at the connector inside, I don't know how often I find old crimp style fittings behind the plates. It may not be the main cause, but it certainly helps!


----------



## ironwood

avmaster said:


> causes for 771 on HD channels only-
> 
> 1. Poorly aligned dish
> 2. Poorly mounted dish that moves in wind/etc
> 3. Line of site being effected by interference from trees / and or other objects
> 4. Diplexer or other device inline which effectively flters out the higher band siginals
> 5. Improper multiswitch
> 6. Bad cable / fittings
> 7. Bad B-band converter
> 8. Bad reciver
> 9. Bad LMB
> 
> I think that just about covers it, the most common cause of problems on most installs is just old/crappy fittings and or cable. Pull off your wall plates and take a look at the connector inside, I don't know how often I find old crimp style fittings behind the plates. It may not be the main cause, but it certainly helps!


10. RFI
11. Improper/loose ground
12. Bad/improper electrical wiring
13. Bad software
14. Bad hardware (bad batch of receivers, specific models)

6. To bad cable/fittings I would definitely add bad barrels. They have to be high-frequency type. Also this category is the cause of more problems than all other categories combined. Therefore to be more specific bad cable is not only old wrong type of cable. It is also cable run under the carpet that one day gets caught on this little tiny carpet nail thats absolutely impossible to notice and understand its affect. And you only losing few HD channels!


----------



## David MacLeod

along with barrel connectors is wrong type of grounding block. older style ones (even in great shape) don't work due to the same reason ironwood just spoke of on barrel connectors. wall plates also fall in the barrel connector category.

I can personally attest to that, its easy to miss too.


----------



## JohnDG

Something new: after I deleted a recording in progress, I got a 771 error flashed on my screen while the HR21 changed the tuner back to the previous channel that I had been watching but not recording (202). The HR21 then successfully started to display the channel.

Checking the other tuner, it was still recording another show, and I had no additional problems.

This makes me think that the 771 errors are a time-out problem (waiting for the switch), rather than a hardware problem. That is, if the HR21 waited longer for a stream, it would work.

And... me thinks that this would also relate to the blank recordings: a timeout problem where the tuner does not supply the new stream fast enough at the beginning of the recording, and the HR21 is unable to recover -- having to go thru the additional "authorized recording" code, from which the "search for a another source for a blacked-out program" feature derives.

jdg


----------



## ironwood

JohnDG said:


> Something new: after I deleted a recording in progress, I got a 771 error flashed on my screen while the HR21 changed the tuner back to the previous channel that I had been watching but not recording (202). The HR21 then successfully started to display the channel.
> 
> Checking the other tuner, it was still recording another show, and I had no additional problems.
> 
> This makes me think that the 771 errors are a time-out problem (waiting for the switch), rather than a hardware problem. That is, if the HR21 waited longer for a stream, it would work.
> 
> And... me thinks that this would also relate to the blank recordings: a timeout problem where the tuner does not supply the new stream fast enough at the beginning of the recording, and the HR21 is unable to recover -- having to go thru the additional "authorized recording" code, from which the "search for a another source for a blacked-out program" feature derives.
> 
> jdg


Isnt it supposed to run both tuners simultaneously at all times? What stream are you talking about? There might be something here but I am just not catching it. Give us more detail.


----------



## JohnDG

ironwood said:


> Isnt it supposed to run both tuners simultaneously at all times? What stream are you talking about? There might be something here but I am just not catching it. Give us more detail.


The HR21 only runs has 2 streams active if it is a) recording 2 programs, or b) it is recording one program and you have the other tuner tuned into a different channel. That is, if you are not recording a program then only one tuner is active. Thus the "no dual buffers" feature.

As for "stream," I'm referring to the data stream from the satellite.

jdg


----------



## newsposter

isnt it 3? cant it do VOD while recording 2 satellite programs?


----------



## rogerax

Hi, 

Could someone shed some light about my annoying "771 searching satellite" error ? 

Here is my configuration:

1. H20-600 * 1
2. slimline 5 lnb 
3. All satelittes signal strength is at "94-95".
4. S/W 0x4062 04/02 updated 

There is NO problem until 1 month agao when the weather turned warmer. I got "771" error. Someone in this discussion group 
suggested H20 overheat issue. Therefore I put a fan, the problem went way.

Then around one week ago, the problem re-occurred. I reset the H20 and it re-occurred about two days later.

But since yesterday, i gets worse. After reset, it only last like 20 minutes for HD channels. 

Here is my observation:

1. After reset, i checked the singal strength is still at 95 level.
2. It seems that the "771" error only occurs at HD channels. 
If I watched SD version, or let it stay at SD channel over-night, it works fine without 771 error. 
3. weather seems not an issue. 

Any suggestions? I am inclined to change BBC and receiver. No protection plan, technican service is my last resort. 

1. slimline dish, lnb ( two months old) 
2. cable (short distance between balcony and living room) ; RG6 3000MHZ, 75 OHM
3. BBC (Ver 2) 
4. H20-600 receiver.

Thnaks,


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## K4SMX

Do you get 771's on channels 70-79? Have you looked specifically at your signals, tp-by-tp, on 103(c)?


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## rogerax

Yes. I also got 771 on 70-79. When it got 771, all TP of all satellites went to "0". 
After the reset, all TP signal on 103C is above 90. 

DO you guys suspect it's receiver problem? 

Thanks.


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## bubbaart15

Indiana627 said:


> Those channels you listed all come off the 110 sat. And you mentioned bad weather - we had 60+ mph gusts here last week and blew my dish slightly out of alignment. When the wind died down, my picture was fine, but when the wind picked up again I had problems. I had D* come out on Saturday and realign and then tighten down my dish again. Turns out the guy who installed it in June didn't tighten all the bolts. My gut feeling is you might be in the same boat.


Is there anywhere to find what HD channels are off of which Sat? Why I'm wondering is I don't have the HD dish setup yet buy I'm thinking about getting an HD receiver but I didn't know if I should wait to get it until I am ready to set up the Slimline Dish. Thanks for any input for me.


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## Michael D'Angelo

bubbaart15 said:


> Is there anywhere to find what HD channels are off of which Sat? Why I'm wondering is I don't have the HD dish setup yet buy I'm thinking about getting an HD receiver but I didn't know if I should wait to get it until I am ready to set up the Slimline Dish. Thanks for any input for me.


Welcome to DBSTalk

Without the 5 LNB dish you will only be able to receive ESPN, ESPN2, HBO, SHO, UHD, TNT, HDTH, HDNM, HDN and they will be moved from SAT's 110 and 119 over to the new SAT (D11: 99c) some thime in the future (probably not to long from now).

All other national HD channels are on SAT 103c.


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## K4SMX

rogerax said:


> Yes. I also got 771 on 70-79. When it got 771, all TP of all satellites went to "0".
> After the reset, all TP signal on 103C is above 90.
> 
> DO you guys suspect it's receiver problem?
> 
> Thanks.


Well that's why I asked the question, because those channels don't involve the BBC directly. The BBC is, however, still in the line and has been known to effect non-103(c) signals. So as a final test to eliminate it as a problem, the next time your CH 70-79 go out, remove the BBC from the receiver and hook up the antenna line directly to the receiver. If the BBC is causing the problem, your CH 70-79 will start working fine (and of course you won't have any 103(c) national HD channels.)

I suspect that your receiver has gone bad from being cooked over time before you got the fan. In that connection and not knowing what kind of fan you're using, is the H20-600 being adequately cooled? Mine run room temperature to the touch using an upside down laptop cooler, whereas previously you couldn't touch the top of them for more than a few seconds.


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## bubbaart15

Michael D'Angelo;1626081 said:


> Welcome to DBSTalk
> 
> Without the 5 LNB dish you will only be able to receive ESPN, ESPN2, HBO, SHO, UHD, TNT, HDTH, HDNM, HDN and they will be moved from SAT's 110 and 119 over to the new SAT (D11: 99c) some thime in the future (probably not to long from now).
> 
> All other national HD channels are on SAT 103c.


Thanks for the welcome and the help. I just found this site a few days ago and it's already helped me set up my brothers slimline dish from simply reading. We're still having problems getting all the 101's to 90 (most of them are in the 70s), but at least we have some signal on the 103 (50), which is better than nothing. I'm thinking it might be a tree problem, so we may try to raise the dish up and see if that works. Thanks again.


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## K4SMX

You can figure adding about 25 degrees (actually 22.5) to the apparent line of the dish toward the trees in question, because that's how much the LNB is offset from the centerline of the dish. Hopefully you're using the fine adjustment mechanisms for further alignment adjustments.


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## bubbaart15

K4SMX said:


> You can figure adding about 25 degrees (actually 22.5) to the apparent line of the dish toward the trees in question, because that's how much the LNB is offset from the centerline of the dish. Hopefully you're using the fine adjustment mechanisms for further alignment adjustments.


Then maybe it's not the trees. We put the new dish in the same place as the old one and the old one was in the 90's for 101, I don't understand why the best we can do on several of the transponders is 72. That's why I thought it was the trees (I was hoping). What else could it be? Could it be the connectors? Were using the screw on coax connectors. Would that lower the number? It was 90 with those connectors on the old round dish so I thought it would be fine. Any ideas? Yes, I am using the fine adjustment mechanism for fine tuning.


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## K4SMX

Have you seen TV channels from the satellite at this point? I just want to make sure you're pointed at the right satellites.

Screw-on connectors are _verboten_. Run down to the big box home improvement store and pick up a compression fittings tool, an RG6 coax wire prep tool, and a box of RG6 compression fittings. This is satellite TV!


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## bubbaart15

Yes, the satellite is working, only the numbers are low (50 for the 103 satellite) and 70's for the 101. Thanks for all the help. Hopefully the more I learn I can help others too.


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## rogerax

K4SMX said:


> Well that's why I asked the question, because those channels don't involve the BBC directly. The BBC is, however, still in the line and has been known to effect non-103(c) signals. So as a final test to eliminate it as a problem, the next time your CH 70-79 go out, remove the BBC from the receiver and hook up the antenna line directly to the receiver. If the BBC is causing the problem, your CH 70-79 will start working fine (and of course you won't have any 103(c) national HD channels.)
> 
> I suspect that your receiver has gone bad from being cooked over time before you got the fan. In that connection and not knowing what kind of fan you're using, is the H20-600 being adequately cooled? Mine run room temperature to the touch using an upside down laptop cooler, whereas previously you couldn't touch the top of them for more than a few seconds.


I removed the BBC and it has been working good among MPEG2 channels, like 75, 76, 79, 206, 209, 80-88, without 771 problem durig the last 24 hours. Out of the curiosity, i connected the BBC back and in 10 minutes on channel 76, it got 771 error.

Does this mean that it's BBC problem? Does the 771 have anything to do with MPEG4 decoding circuit?

I am waiting for DirectTV mailing me the BBCs. Will post the result later.

Thanks,


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## vikingsfan

I've had this "771" searching for sat message for some time now but only for my HR21. My HR20 in another room is fine for now. I received a refurbed HR21 and activated it, got the same error message. Next, I swapped the HR20 and hooked it up in the room where I got the message and NO 771 MESSAGE. So DirecTV is coming out this weekend to look into it further. If they tell me one more time to reboot or disconnect all wires and reconnect I'm going to scream!!!


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## jungle1

I've been having similar problems on Tuner 2 with the Ch 70-79 HD channels.

Problem stays with Tuner 2 when I switch source cables and/or BBCs.

Added the 3' coax/barrel connector last night between the BBC and the input on Tuner 2, and it seems to be working.

Not sure for how long, but it is one more data point that it might work for some people some of the time.


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## K4SMX

rogerax said:


> I removed the BBC and it has been working good among MPEG2 channels, like 75, 76, 79, 206, 209, 80-88, without 771 problem durig the last 24 hours. Out of the curiosity, i connected the BBC back and in 10 minutes on channel 76, it got 771 error.
> 
> Does this mean that it's BBC problem? Does the 771 have anything to do with MPEG4 decoding circuit?
> 
> I am waiting for DirectTV mailing me the BBCs. Will post the result later.
> 
> Thanks,


It does sound like you've got a bad BBC. It doesn't have anything to do with codec decoding. That's all done in the receiver. What the BBC does is convert the IF signals from the LNB for the Ka lo satellites from ~the UHF TV band up to the same IF frequencies from the LNB for the Ka hi satellites so the receiver can receive them. Unfortunately, there's some peculiar relationship with the 110 signals, which are supposed to pass right through the BBC. This is related to, but not exactly the same, as the problem some HR20-100's have receiving the 110's on tuner 2. Hopefully, the new BBC will fix your problem.


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## rogerax

K4SMX said:


> It does sound like you've got a bad BBC. It doesn't have anything to do with codec decoding. That's all done in the receiver. What the BBC does is convert the IF signals from the LNB for the Ka lo satellites from ~the UHF TV band up to the same IF frequencies from the LNB for the Ka hi satellites so the receiver can receive them. Unfortunately, there's some peculiar relationship with the 110 signals, which are supposed to pass right through the BBC. This is related to, but not exactly the same, as the problem some HR20-100's have receiving the 110's on tuner 2. Hopefully, the new BBC will fix your problem.


Unfortunately. I installed the new BBC ver 3, but the HD channles, except 75-79, 80-88, 206, 209, still get the same 771 problem in 3 minutes. When it got 771 error, the signal strength of every TP in every satellite went to "zero" . I think i need to replace the receiver. Does anyone suspect it's LNB or cable problem?


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## K4SMX

From your first post:



rogerax said:


> Yes. I also got 771 on 70-79. When it got 771, all TP of all satellites went to "0".
> After the reset, all TP signal on 103C is above 90. .....


Now you're saying you do get CH 75-79.



rogerax said:


> Unfortunately. I installed the new BBC ver 3, but the HD channles, except 75-79, 80-88, 206, 209, still get the same 771 problem in 3 minutes. When it got 771 error, the signal strength of every TP in every satellite went to "zero" . I think i need to replace the receiver. Does anyone suspect it's LNB or cable problem?


That's rather odd - some 110's and one 119. Oh well. Is there any way you can try that receiver at a friend's house? It's not impossible you've got some installation problem, although it does sound now like you've got a bad receiver. Do you have other receivers which require that you have a multi-switch which could be bad? LNB's don't usually die on almost all the satellites, but usually just one, although it's possible.


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## newsposter

i'm sure someone already has posted this but tonight i went to look at my signals on the 110 and 119 on the HR20 because 119 is flaking out on me, and then discovered the signal grid updates at intervals

fantastic!


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## astayton

I have this problem on both of my units. I have a HR20 and an R15. Every three days I have to reset them to get the second tunner to come in. I know it's not the wire since i switched wires before the reboot and the other line is fine. My signals are fine. i think it's just a software bug that they have. I'm going to put a timer on both boxes to have them reboot every other night at 3:00am. 

This will fix my problem until they can fix it.


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## mutley

Change the IR settings on the remote from RF to IR seems to have stopped this annoying error for me. I've been Error free for 6 weeks.

I was restarting my HD DVR several times a week because of this issue...my 2 TIVO DVRs are running great.

I read a thread (cant find it now) that mentioned the new energy efficient light bulbs would trigger the error for some people, which got me thinking about how they would effect it.

Guaranteed my box will error now I have put this in writing ;-) Interested to know if this works for others


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## JeffBowser

There has been a TON of rain fade in S Fl. recently. This morning I was able to closely observe my DVRs rain-fade recovery behavior.

First off, only my oldest HR20-700 (mfg date 6/30/07, China) exhibits the behavior, my HR21-100 is no longer having any recovery issues. This is a change - prior, both were showing the issue, and tuner 1 had no signal on any sat until a reboot. Now:

Tuner 1 is not entirely gone on the HR20 - close observation shows that only 99 and 103 sat locations show no signal on tuner 1 until I reboot, tuner 2 recovers fine. 101, 110, and 119 show normal recovery on both tuners.


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