# Discussion: P284 User Feedback



## Jason Nipp

This thread is intended for P284 user feedback, reports, and discussion of bugs. 

Jason


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## moman19

Jason Nipp said:


> This thread is intended for P284 user feedback, reports, and discussion of bugs.
> 
> Jason


Just got the new software. Now my OTA digital channels are comming in at half-power. Anyone else see this? I was getting 5 or 6 channels at +90%. Now the highest is 70% and some fall below 50% and will not lock.

I'm in a panic! What to do?????? Should I call DISH and jump up & down?????


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## Mark Lamutt

First thing I'd check is to be sure your antenna is still pointed the right direction. Don't know where you are in the midwest, but if you've been getting some of the wind that we had in Denver, and your antenna is outside, it very well may have been blown out of alignment (as I found mine a couple of weeks ago...)


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## Jason Nipp

moman19 said:


> Just got the new software. Now my OTA digital channels are comming in at half-power. Anyone else see this? I was getting 5 or 6 channels at +90%. Now the highest is 70% and some fall below 50% and will not lock.
> 
> I'm in a panic! What to do?????? Should I call DISH and jump up & down?????


Why jump up and down, do you need exercise?  First check your OTA as Mark suggested.

My suggestion is to (menu 6-1-5) remove everything mapped. Shut down, pull power plug, wait a few moments... plug in, let reboot, then scan your OTA's, remember you will have to resave your favorites lists if they contain OTA's. This has helped before.

If all else fails private message me your info: Name (on account), Phone Number (On account), number to contact you at, the Receiver ID of your 811 in question, the Software Version, and Boot Strap Version.

Jason


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## moman19

Jason Nipp said:


> Why jump up and down, do you need exercise?  First check your OTA as Mark suggested.
> 
> My suggestion is to (menu 6-1-5) remove everything mapped. Shut down, pull power plug, wait a few moments... plug in, let reboot, then scan your OTA's, remember you will have to resave your favorites lists if they contain OTA's. This has helped before.
> 
> If all else fails private message me your info: Name (on account), Phone Number (On account), number to contact you at, the Receiver ID of your 811 in question, the Software Version, and Boot Strap Version.
> 
> Jason


Whew! I followed your instructions to the letter and now all appears to be normal. Signal strength is back in the 90s and all stations can be received. Until I did as you suggested, merely power cycling the receiver did not help. All stations seemed to lose about 30% to 35% of signal strength immediately after the upgrade. Stations at 90% showed up in the 60% range and seemed fine to the eyes. But 2 stations normally in the low 80s now would not lock in at all. Only "check antenna" banners, which I never before saw on these channels.

Oh well. If this excercise really cures the BSOD issue, it will be well worth it. Thank you for offering to help, Jason. I have been a daily recipient of the BSOD since day-1. If you don't mind, I''ll PM you if it raises its ugly head once again.


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## Jason Nipp

moman19 said:


> Whew! I followed your instructions to the letter and now all appears to be normal. Signal strength is back in the 90s and all stations can be received. Until I did as you suggested, merely power cycling the receiver did not help. All stations seemed to lose about 30% to 35% of signal strength immediately after the upgrade. Stations at 90% showed up in the 60% range and seemed fine to the eyes. But 2 stations normally in the low 80s now would not lock in at all. Only "check antenna" banners, which I never before saw on these channels.
> 
> Oh well. If this excercise really cures the BSOD issue, it will be well worth it. Thank you for offering to help, Jason. I have been a daily recipient of the BSOD since day-1. If you don't mind, I''ll PM you if it raises its ugly head once again.


No problem...Please do so.


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## rocatman

Received P284 download and so far so good. With P282, I would get the BSOD occasionally when I surfed through my OTA stations, both digital and analog. I have been able to surf through them now without any BSOD. I will keep testing as time and viewing priorities permit. By the way, I did not have to rescan my locals and did not lose any signal strength. In fact my signal strength on my weakest digital OTA station seems to be up a couple of points. OTA guide data is still good as it has been for me since P281. I hope everyone has as much luck as I seem to be having with P284.


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## Mikey

Well, so far go good. I've been surfing OTA for an hour or so without a BSOD. I've even gone off the OTA into satellite without an "Acquiring Satellite". No new glitches yet that I've noticed. Looks like a keeper.


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## Bobby94928

The infernal BSOD seems to have been fixed!!! YAAAAAYYYYYY


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## khearrean

I had posted in the original/old category, not aware this new 811 category had been started. Mark closed that thread and directed me here. Basically, the intent of my question still has not been addressed here however that I can see. Here it is: I see in this thread where 2.84 will only spool to those who have 2.82 right now. But those of us (such as myself) who are still at 2.81, do I change my 811 internal setting to automatically accept 2.84 (w/o my permission)? Or keep it where I have it now which will only accept it with my permission?

Ken


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## bavaria72

Hey Ken, naturally that is your call but from reading the inputs so far regarding 284, it looks like E* got this right. Like you, when I first starting hearing about the issues with 282, I immediately switched to "ask my permission". After reading these recent inputs, I'm going to go back to allowing the update to occur automatically. Hopefully I will see it sometome after Jan 4th (Jason said that the folks with 282 (and the very odd 283s) will go first and then it is the typical roll out). - Art


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## Jason Nipp

khearrean said:


> I had posted in the original/old category, not aware this new 811 category had been started. Mark closed that thread and directed me here. Basically, the intent of my question still has not been addressed here however that I can see. Here it is: I see in this thread where 2.84 will only spool to those who have 2.82 right now. But those of us (such as myself) who are still at 2.81, do I change my 811 internal setting to automatically accept 2.84 (w/o my permission)? Or keep it where I have it now which will only accept it with my permission?
> 
> Ken


You also have not checked your private messages lately either...hehe 

Sorry Ken....Yes open up your settings and you will eventually get P284, you will stay at P281 until P284 spools to you. The P284 pre-rollout is going pretty quickly, the original estimates given to me were like Jan 4 for "Widespread", they didn't want to interfere with the Holiday, but those of you with P282 are probably jumping for joy right now...

Jason


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## Jason Nipp

bavaria72 said:


> Hey Ken, naturally that is your call but from reading the inputs so far regarding 284, it looks like E* got this right. Like you, when I first starting hearing about the issues with 282, I immediately switched to "ask my permission". After reading these recent inputs, I'm going to go back to allowing the update to occur automatically. Hopefully I will see it sometome after Jan 4th (Jason said that the folks with 282 (and the very odd 283s) will go first and then it is the typical roll out). - Art


P283 never spooled to anyone outside of Echostar/Team...

Jason


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## bavaria72

Jason Nipp said:


> P283 never spooled to anyone outside of Echostar/Team...
> 
> Jason


Yes Sir!


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## Grandude

Do I have a new bug with 284?
My guide is now totally dead. All I get in the guide for every channel is 'no info'.
Can't scroll up or down, or ahead. This is a bummer.
Am I the only one with this problem?

Brian...griping from the left coast...


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## n0qcu

My guide is working just like it should with 2.84. I haven't been able to get it to crash yet. (maybe they got it right this time) Wish they'd hurry and release it so my other four 811's get it.


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## Bama Mac

Grandude said:


> Do I have a new bug with 284?
> My guide is now totally dead. All I get in the guide for every channel is 'no info'.
> Can't scroll up or down, or ahead. This is a bummer.
> Am I the only one with this problem?
> 
> Brian...griping from the left coast...


 I have had this happen to me before with the guide showing no info on all channels. A simple soft reboot of the receiver cured this problem for me.


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## Bobby94928

It sounds like your 811 froze up Brian. Do the soft-boot mentioned previously. I've had this same thing happen a long while back and the soft-boot fixed it readily. I'm finding no problem whatsoever with 2.84. Fingers crossed......


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## Grandude

Bobby C and Bama Mac,
The soft boot did 'fix' the problem, for now. My concern, and I guess I am easily spooked is that I have never seen this happen before on my 811, and can't recall reading about it on any forum. I guess time will tell but, BUT, no one should have to do a soft boot as often as has been required on the 811 or the 921.
Brian...on pins and needles on the left coast...


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## Cholly

Gave permission to download the update last night. I was haveing a problem with one of my OTA locals, and decided today to do a cleanup. FWIW, I did * exactly * what Jason recommended in post #4 above, including resaving my Favorites. Everything works like a charm! Now, if I could only get rid of the multipath problems with my ABC OTA (it transmits on low band VHF channel 4), I'd be happy as a clam. 

If anyone is having a problem after downloading 284, I strongly recommend you follow Jason's procedure.


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## Jason Nipp

Cholly said:


> Gave permission to download the update last night. I was haveing a problem with one of my OTA locals, and decided today to do a cleanup. FWIW, I did *exactly *what Jason recommended in post #4 above, including resaving my Favorites. Everything works like a charm! Now, if I could only get rid of the multipath problems with my ABC OTA (it transmits on low band VHF channel 4), I'd be happy as a clam.
> 
> If anyone is having a problem after downloading 284, I strongly recommend you follow Jason's procedure.


Contrary to the criticism...I am running a pre-amp/FM Trap and 30db signal amp on my Winegard OTA. I would give it a whirl...buy from a shop that will allow you to return if not satisfied...This way if it doesn't help your only out your own time and some gs to the shop.


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## leestoo

I had the Guide no info freeze-up with 282 and I have had one with 284 as well. A hard reboot was requited to get the 811 working again.


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## hancox

Jason Nipp said:


> P283 never spooled to anyone outside of Echostar/Team...
> 
> Jason


Eh? I had it.

(unless you had something to do with that, Jason  )


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## Jason Nipp

hancox said:


> Eh? I had it.
> 
> (unless you had something to do with that, Jason  )


Do you work for Echostar or are you the new guy sitting in the office next to me?...hehe... Since P283 was never offically released to anyone outside of Echostar I think you just admitted who you work for...hehehe.....Just kidding! :lol:

Also I noticed you guys posted the notes, which is fine....but you really should add the scheduling info and roll out priority so that the users are informed of it.

Happy Holidays,
Jason


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## Ron Barry

Got 2.84 and so far so good. Need not have a lot of time to play with it but I was not having a lot of issues either. 2 things I noticed different. 

1) On my CBS OTA. when I tune to it it seems to ramp up in terms of Signal strength. Thought I had ran into the dreeded 49% bug but nope it finally lock. Something I did not noticed. 

2) I did have the NoInfo issue after update. I warm reboot fixed the problem. 

Other than that things seem to be moving along smoothly. Lets hope they stay that way. 

One thing I have noticed over the last few updates. I hardly ever see the Aquiring signal bug if at all now and I rarely see downloading guide info. I think that is because I always turn off my 811 when not in use. Part of the HT shutdown sequence. 

Well looks like we are back on track.


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## Mikey

WeeJavaDude said:


> One thing I have noticed over the last few updates. I hardly ever see the Aquiring signal bug if at all now and I rarely see downloading guide info. I think that is because I always turn off my 811 when not in use.


Me either, and I hardly ever turn off my 811.


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## moman19

Grandude said:


> Do I have a new bug with 284?
> My guide is now totally dead. All I get in the guide for every channel is 'no info'.
> Can't scroll up or down, or ahead. This is a bummer.
> Am I the only one with this problem?
> 
> Brian...griping from the left coast...


The same has occurred with my 811 yesterday. Only saw it once so far, so I'm crossing fingers, eyes, etc. But I fear if it happenned once, it will happen again. For the good news, I seem unable to get the BSOD, something that used to occur sveral times an evening while channel surfing.


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## Jason Nipp

I recommend a map clear and remapping of OTA after this download. This is just advice nothing official.


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## Zookster

I just had my first 811 installed through the "Dishin' it Up" program. The receiver came preloaded with P284, which I was happy to see. But like others in this thread I've had to hard reboot at least twice when the program guide locked up with "no info." If I continue to have problems, I'll try the remapping scheme. Maybe this will also improve the weak reception on OTAs. I'm getting 70-80s max with an inexpensive indoor antenna, though living on a mesa in the heart of the San Diego metro area with no tower further than 10 miles. 

Anyone else having problems with newly activated 811s?


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## moman19

Here's a new one. As a sanity check, I had to look twice before writing. But this actually happenned this morning.

I have P284 and it seems to have completely resolved my daily BSOD occurances. However, while channel surfing the OTA's this morning, my video locked up. I was actually in the EPG with the picture in the upper corner. I highlighted a different channel and pressed SELECT to change channels....a common function. The image froze and then went black. At first, I thought the dreaded BSOD had returned. But a few seconds later, the image reappeared, but all guide data I could see contained "No Info". Before I could go further, the "Downloading Guide Data" banner appeared and populated all fields. So far, so good. All looked fine. BTW, my 811 had been OFF all night.

Now here comes the wierd part: I rely heavily on a custom FAVORITES channel menu. I noticed, with two exceptions, all my OTA channels were gone from the list! Cycling thru the Favorites Lists (guide button) would not bring them back to my custom list. These OTAs still appeared in ALL SUBS and ALL CHAN, but were nowhere to be found on my custom list. So, I went into the Favorite setup menu, and the missing OTAs were actually unchecked! I rebuilt the custom list and now all is well.

Apparently, the custom Favorites listings are subject to corruption. As a sidebar, the two OTA stations that survived the corruption was the one that I was viewing and the one I was switching to. Six other OTA channels just went POOF!


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## Jason Nipp

moman19 said:


> Here's a new one. As a sanity check, I had to look twice before writing. But this actually happenned this morning.
> 
> I have P284 and it seems to have completely resolved my daily BSOD occurances. However, while channel surfing the OTA's this morning, my video locked up. I was actually in the EPG with the picture in the upper corner. I highlighted a different channel and pressed SELECT to change channels....a common function. The image froze and then went black. At first, I thought the dreaded BSOD had returned. But a few seconds later, the image reappeared, but all guide data I could see contained "No Info". Before I could go further, the "Downloading Guide Data" banner appeared and populated all fields. So far, so good. All looked fine. BTW, my 811 had been OFF all night.
> 
> Now here comes the wierd part: I rely heavily on a custom FAVORITES channel menu. I noticed, with two exceptions, all my OTA channels were gone from the list! Cycling thru the Favorites Lists (guide button) would not bring them back to my custom list. These OTAs still appeared in ALL SUBS and ALL CHAN, but were nowhere to be found on my custom list. So, I went into the Favorite setup menu, and the missing OTAs were actually unchecked! I rebuilt the custom list and now all is well.
> 
> Apparently, the custom Favorites listings are subject to corruption. As a sidebar, the two OTA stations that survived the corruption was the one that I was viewing and the one I was switching to. Six other OTA channels just went POOF!


Good write up Moman.

WJD, since you also reported seeing "no info" at one point...Can you follow Moman's instructions to see if you can replicate?

thanks,
Jason


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## moman19

Jason,

I've actually seen "No Info" two times since getting P284. But the first time it happenned I did not lose channels from my custom Favorites, so why complain? I thought it was a fluke. Frankly, this is much better than the BSOD issue, but still worth reporting.


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## Jason Nipp

moman19 said:


> Jason,
> 
> I've actually seen "No Info" two times since getting P284. But the first time it happenned I did not lose channels from my custom Favorites, so why complain? I thought it was a fluke. Frankly, this is much better than the BSOD issue, but still worth reporting.


I agree, just looking to see if it can be replicated cause when I discuss it with the 811 product team I will likely be asked if anyone else is having the issue and what the team can do to replicate the issue. Not doubting you at all, I'm just doing the legwork for the team.


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## Ron Barry

Jason Nipp said:


> Good write up Moman.
> 
> WJD, since you also reported seeing "no info" at one point...Can you follow Moman's instructions to see if you can replicate?
> 
> thanks,
> Jason


Well Back from Xmas. DId not get a chance to hope on the board. The only time I have see the No Info is right after the update. It was immediately and a soft reboot cleared things up. I will try and reproduce.

Based on Moman write up. I have two thoughts.

1) When I have seen OTA channels disappear from Favorites list it has been because of signal related issues. Or channels get remapped. I had this happen with my Channel 2. It was remapped from 2 to 60 and therefore gotten taken off the list. Right now my OTA strength is at around 60% since I now have two boxes using the OTA. I need to do some tweaking since my topology changed, but I figured since I am getting a signal it is cool. However, The remap occurred before 2.84. What type of signal strength are you seeing Moman? Is if jumping around a lot?

2) I will give it a try.. However, I do a lot of EPG up, find OTA and select the channel. I have not have a No Info pop up. I am wondering if in the case of Moman the box is looking a signal and therefore might thing the guide information is not valid. Moman, are you also getting an aquiring signal message during this?

Well I will try it tonight and see if I can reproduce. Over the holiday 2.84 was solid for me.


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## moman19

My signal strength is strong. Always in the 88 to 93 range with a good outdoor antenna. Funny though, immediately after this happenned, I did notice that the two surviving stations that remained in my Custom Favorites after the "outage" breifly lost PSIP and reverted back to their true UHF channel numbers. I noticed this when I first tried to loop thru my Favorites via the Guide button. Before I could could sort all this out, it was gone and the stations had their mapped numbers again. In other words, I did nothing about this. Also, nothing strange happenned at my home when this occurred (i.e., power outage, lightening, etc.).

I would love to duplicate this myself, but all I was doing was channel surfing via the Guide.


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## Ron Barry

moman19 said:


> My signal strength is strong. Always in the 88 to 93 range with a good outdoor antenna. Funny though, immediately after this happenned, I did notice that the two surviving stations that remained in my Custom Favorites after the "outage" breifly lost PSIP and reverted back to their true UHF channel numbers. I noticed this when I first tried to loop thru my Favorites via the Guide button. Before I could could sort all this out, it was gone and the stations had their mapped numbers again. In other words, I did nothing about this. Also, nothing strange happenned at my home when this occurred (i.e., power outage, lightening, etc.).
> 
> I would love to duplicate this myself, but all I was doing was channel surfing via the Guide.


Well when I got home last night and pressed the EPG, my guide was full with "No Info". I would not say I reproduced it because I don't have a clue what triggered it but I did have another instance of it.

I played a around a bit with it and in this case my EPG was completely frozen. I could not page up or down. Could not change a channel. Could not move the guide around. I tried changing channels without the EPG and that work fine.

I also noticed that I was frozone on one of my Favorites lists. When I change channels outside the guide to a channel that was not in my favorites list the EPG was frozen at, bringing up the EPG showed the Sub favorites. The Picture in GUIDE was operational and I could hear audio.

A softboot cleared the issue up.

I could not reproduce it after that.


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## Mikey

WeeJavaDude said:


> Well when I got home last night and pressed the EPG, my guide was full with "No Info". I would not say I reproduced it because I don't have a clue what triggered it but I did have another instance of it.
> 
> I played a around a bit with it and in this case my EPG was completely frozen. I could not page up or down. Could not change a channel. Could not move the guide around. I tried changing channels without the EPG and that work fine.
> 
> I also noticed that I was frozone on one of my Favorites lists. When I change channels outside the guide to a channel that was not in my favorites list the EPG was frozen at, bringing up the EPG showed the Sub favorites. The Picture in GUIDE was operational and I could hear audio.
> 
> A softboot cleared the issue up.
> 
> I could not reproduce it after that.


I don't have this problem, but then I don't use the Favorites feature. Coincidence? I wonder!  I'm happy with P2.84 with the features that I do use.


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## Ron Barry

Mikey said:


> I don't have this problem, but then I don't use the Favorites feature. Coincidence? I wonder!  I'm happy with P2.84 with the features that I do use.


The problem is very random. There have been some reports and we are trying to see if we can narrow down what possible might be causing it. I have had it happen twice. Once immediately after the download and yesterday.

As to the Favorites being the link. It is possible, however a lot of 811 users use favorites and so based on the number of reports I would be suprised that is the link.

I was however on an OTA channel. I did noticed that my CBS-HD channel has once again moved back to its home at 002-001 from the 060-001 it was at. Maybe it is the remapping that is the trigger. Hard to tell at this moment.


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## garypen

This new P284 has restored the "Aquiring Signal/Downloading Guide Info When Going To Guide From OTA" bug that appeared to be fixed in the last update.

I'm also getting the "Garbage Characters Then Download Guide Which Freezes before It Finishes When Scrolling Down In The Guide" bug, which I hadn't seen for ages.

The first time I went to the guide after the update, it locked up and spontaneously rebooted. 

It's having trouble with the channel mapping for one of my OTA. That never happened before, either. (Channel 57/PSIP 4).

I also got, for the first time, the stop-motion effect on an OTA HD broadcast. (Channell up/down corrected it.)

It looks like I'll be using the 811 even less, if that's possible. The 721 isn't too bad at this point. (It's even good looking.) Too bad the Dish Locals have such crappy PQ, and Dish programming is missing so many channels in AT120. Otherwise, I could probably live with the 721/811 arangement for some time to come. But, it'll probably be my Dish gear going on eBay to pay for DirecTV HD DVR, or maybe even Comcast. The upcoming rate hike is just one more reason.


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## moman19

Jason,

Interesting development this evening. I turned on the TV and the 811 to sit down and watch some TV. Local OTA DT channels were all coming in at 49% to 60%. This means that some would not lock in. Without exception, all seven DT stations in my area, which normally come in in the 90% range were each 30 to 40 points lower. I checked my outdoor antenna: no issue. I checked my analog stations: no issue. 

I remember this happenned once before, immediately after receiving P284. I rebooted the 811 by holding the power switch. When rebooting ended, no change. All OTA DT channels were still "in the mud"....no change. I then pulled the plug on the 811, waited a few seconds and plugged it back in. This time, when it finished rebooting aLL WAS BACK TO NORMAL! All seven DT stations were again in the 90% range.

What's this all about????? For some reason, the 811 seems to lose sensitivity and this can only be remedied via a cold restart. I've had 811 problems with OTA since day one, but this is something new.


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## Jason Nipp

moman19 said:


> Jason,
> 
> Interesting development this evening. I turned on the TV and the 811 to sit down and watch some TV. Local OTA DT channels were all coming in at 49% to 60%. This means that some would not lock in. Without exception, all seven DT stations in my area, which normally come in in the 90% range were each 30 to 40 points lower. I checked my outdoor antenna: no issue. I checked my analog stations: no issue.
> 
> I remember this happenned once before, immediately after receiving P284. I rebooted the 811 by holding the power switch. When rebooting ended, no change. All OTA DT channels were still "in the mud"....no change. I then pulled the plug on the 811, waited a few seconds and plugged it back in. This time, when it finished rebooting aLL WAS BACK TO NORMAL! All seven DT stations were again in the 90% range.
> 
> What's this all about????? For some reason, the 811 seems to lose sensitivity and this can only be remedied via a cold restart. I've had 811 problems with OTA since day one, but this is something new.


I believe you...I have plenty of messages to support your experience. I have an email in and will follow up with a call in the morning if anybody is back from vacation yet.

In an effort to make you feel better, is this less bothersome than the BSOD issues? :grin: Just kidding don't answer that.

I will post more info as I get it.

Thanks,
Jason


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## Shellback X 23

Since I don't get any OTA channels either D or A should I be in any hurry to turn off my 811 so it will D/L the new software? I am gone for 3 months so I need to call home and tell wife when to do the deed!

Signed: ET


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## Jason Nipp

Shellback X 23 said:


> Since I don't get any OTA channels either D or A should I be in any hurry to turn off my 811 so it will D/L the new software? I am gone for 3 months so I need to call home and tell wife when to do the deed!
> 
> Signed: ET


P284 appears to be much more stable than P282. The BSOD issues have been minimized.

I recommend turning your receiver off at night anyhow...just a personal preference.


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## Broadband Lab Rat

WeeJavaDude said:


> Well when I got home last night and pressed the EPG, my guide was full with "No Info". I would not say I reproduced it because I don't have a clue what triggered it but I did have another instance of it.
> 
> I played a around a bit with it and in this case my EPG was completely frozen. I could not page up or down. Could not change a channel. Could not move the guide around. I tried changing channels without the EPG and that work fine.
> 
> A softboot cleared the issue up.


 I have experienced the same thing twice since upgrade to 2.84.

... locked SOLID with "no info" in guide... soft boot cleared it .


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## moman19

I've seen this too. Only one time since the upgrade.


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## garypen

Jason Nipp said:


> P284 appears to be much more stable than P282. The BSOD issues have been minimized.
> 
> I recommend turning your receiver off at night anyhow...just a personal preference.


Ironically, I never got a BSOD. Plus, 282 seemed to alleviate the acquiring signal/downloading guide bug, as well as the corrupted guide/frozen guide download issue. Both are back with 284.

This whole 811 situation has gotten out of hand. The free Dual-Tuner HD DVR from Comcast is looking sweeter and sweeter.


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## juan ellitinez

garypen said:


> Ironically, I never got a BSOD. Plus, 282 seemed to alleviate the acquiring signal/downloading guide bug, as well as the corrupted guide/frozen guide download issue. Both are back with 284.
> 
> This whole 811 situation has gotten out of hand. The free Dual-Tuner HD DVR from Comcast is looking sweeter and sweeter.


since you seem to have the most trouble why dont you switch !!!!


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## Ron Barry

garypen said:


> Ironically, I never got a BSOD. Plus, 282 seemed to alleviate the acquiring signal/downloading guide bug, as well as the corrupted guide/frozen guide download issue. Both are back with 284.
> 
> This whole 811 situation has gotten out of hand. The free Dual-Tuner HD DVR from Comcast is looking sweeter and sweeter.


Long time no see there Gary. I saw the "acquiring signal" bug a lot prior to 2.81. For me it seems to still be gone. My guess is it is getting triggered by the EPG being corrupted. The only issue I have seen with my 2.84 is the "No Info" on the EPG.

My co-worker got the Dual-Tuner HD unit with 10-12 hours of HD storage. She is happy with it, but she has had minimal use on it. I know you are a JapanTV user, does Comcast offer it? I am stuck with Adelphia and they dont' have an HD DVR yet in my area and no JapanTV so they are not even in the ball park.


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## Tom in TX

Ironically, I never got a BSOD. Plus, 282 seemed to alleviate the acquiring signal/downloading guide bug, as well as the corrupted guide/frozen guide download issue. Both are back with 284.

Then why would you accept the download until you could determine (from these forums) if it would be beneficial to you? You don't have to take the downloads! If your unit was stable, you coulda left it alone.
Tom in TX


----------



## garypen

juan ellitinez said:


> since you seem to have the most trouble why dont you switch !!!!


Gosh. I never thought of that. Thanks for the tip.


----------



## garypen

WeeJavaDude said:


> My co-worker got the Dual-Tuner HD unit with 10-12 hours of HD storage. She is happy with it, but she has had minimal use on it. I know you are a JapanTV user, does Comcast offer it? I am stuck with Adelphia and they dont' have an HD DVR yet in my area and no JapanTV so they are not even in the ball park.


Yes. Comcast Bay Area offers TVJapan. (Although, I only subscribe sporadically.) You should look at the price comparison I posted in the "Dish raises it's prices" thread. It's really very tempting for me...especially after this recent 811 SW update which really was a step backward for me. It'll be nice to have the HD integrated with the DVR, unlike my 721/811 combo. I have a lot to think about in the coming months.


----------



## Jason Nipp

Tom in TX said:


> Then why would you accept the download until you could determine (from these forums) if it would be beneficial to you? You don't have to take the downloads! If your unit was stable, you coulda left it alone.
> Tom in TX


No, Gary's not guilty on this one...He was told it was better. P282 had some issues...It was best to oust it.


----------



## bavaria72

juan ellitinez said:


> since you seem to have the most trouble why dont you switch !!!!


Well, I personally appreciate Gary! 

P.S. Gary, remember shooting fish in a barrel is not a sport!


----------



## garypen

No. It is merely an exhibition for entertainment purposes only. Please. No wagering.


----------



## moman19

Jason,

I'm still having guide issues with P284. Today, I noticed that some satellite channels had Guide information while others (most) had "No Info". Prior to this, the receiver had been on a satellite channel (Discovery - Std Definition) for several hours. I took the guide out a few hours into the future with the hope that this would trigger a Guide update...which it did. But after the "Updating Guide" banner came and went, all I had was "No Info" on all displayed channels in the Guide AND THE GUIDE WAS FROZEN.

The Picture & sound in the upper right corner of the Guide continued to work but I was unable to navigate at all thru the guide. I hit CANCEL, which brought me back to full screen video. I then went back to the guide to see what I would find. The guide immediately locked up and the audio/video in the upper right corner went to black. My only option at this point was a restart.

I'm really not trying to break the receiver, but these surprises just keep on coming. As an active channel surfer, I guess I must be bringing them on an a quicker pace than the average Joe. But one must wonder why these issues exist and why they aren't more common. I'm really not doing anything unique. This is still light years better that P282, but rebootng a set top box on a regular basis is frustrating at the least.


----------



## Ron Barry

moman19 said:


> Jason,
> 
> I'm still having guide issues with P284. Today, I noticed that some satellite channels had Guide information while others (most) had "No Info". Prior to this, the receiver had been on a satellite channel (Discovery - Std Definition) for several hours. I took the guide out a few hours into the future with the hope that this would trigger a Guide update...which it did. But after the "Updating Guide" banner came and went, all I had was "No Info" on all displayed channels in the Guide AND THE GUIDE WAS FROZEN.
> 
> The Picture & sound in the upper right corner of the Guide continued to work but I was unable to navigate at all thru the guide. I hit CANCEL, which brought me back to full screen video. I then went back to the guide to see what I would find. The guide immediately locked up and the audio/video in the upper right corner went to black. My only option at this point was a restart.
> 
> I'm really not trying to break the receiver, but these surprises just keep on coming. As an active channel surfer, I guess I must be bringing them on an a quicker pace than the average Joe. But one must wonder why these issues exist and why they aren't more common. I'm really not doing anything unique. This is still light years better that P282, but rebootng a set top box on a regular basis is frustrating at the least.


What you might want to try is disable the PIP on the Guide and see if your problem goes away. It is worth a shot.


----------



## Jason Nipp

moman19 said:


> This is still light years better that P282, but rebootng a set top box on a regular basis is frustrating at the least.


I know it frustrating, this issue has been reported. I don't expect any response until next week as many are out of office for the holiday.


----------



## moman19

WeeJavaDude said:


> What you might want to try is disable the PIP on the Guide and see if your problem goes away. It is worth a shot.


Yeah, I thought of that, but I like and use PIP. If that's really the cause, then it should be fixed, rather than covered over with a band-aid by disabling it. Hence my reason for reporting it here. Remember, Jason & this Forum do have Echostar's ear. With any luck, these annoyances might get fixed in a future rev level before nationwide rollout.

Disabling PIP in the guide is like fixing a color issue by turning down the color level to Zero.


----------



## Ron Barry

moman19 said:


> Yeah, I thought of that, but I like and use PIP. If that's really the cause, then it should be fixed, rather than covered over with a band-aid by disabling it. Hence my reason for reporting it here. Remember, Jason & this Forum do have Echostar's ear. With any luck, these annoyances might get fixed in a future rev level before nationwide rollout.


Nothing wrong with your reasoning and I fully agree that it should be fixed. I was Just given you something to try as a work around until the root cause is found and the bug sqwished. But if you want to continue to deal with the bug until there is a fix without trying this workaround, it is your choice.

Thanks for the reminder about Jason and the purpose of this forum.  As for when this issue will be fixed, it is anybodies guess but I would be suprised if they fixed this before 2.84 goes widespread. You might have to wait a bit for this one, but that is only a guess.



moman19 said:


> Disabling PIP in the guide is like fixing a color issue by turning down the color level to Zero.


I was not suggesting disabling PIG (Picture in Guide) as a fix. It was a suggestion to try as a work around until the next release. Also it would be helpful to know that this helps your situation since you are seeing this issue a lot. Your use case or particular hardware aggrevates this issue so if the above turns out to be a workaround it could help people that are running into it. Just something to try, but if PIG is that valuable to you, by all means keep it on.


----------



## moman19

WeeJavaDude said:


> I was not suggesting disabling PIG (Picture in Guide) as a fix. It was a suggestion to try as a work around until the next release. Also it would be helpful to know that this helps your situation since you are seeing this issue a lot. Your use case or particular hardware aggrevates this issue so if the above turns out to be a workaround it could help people that are running into it. Just something to try, but if PIG is that valuable to you, by all means keep it on.


WJD,

This quide issue is so sparodic (I think it was more than 2 weeks between occurances), that I would prefer to live with it as is rather than disable the PIG...something that I use all the time. If it's hapenning to me, the chances are high that it will happen to many other 811 users. This is shoddy.

Too bad Dish doesn't elect to use guys like us as true Beta testers. A real-time 2-way dialog would help them iron out all these bugs faster while avoiding/reducing the never-ending "fixes". In reality, this forum is a de facto Beta test resource for them but we have no way of knowing how much, if any, of our feedback is taken seriously...No one is anking me any questions. As an early TiVo Beta tester, I provided much input that actually got incorporated into the current product. It was fun, rewarding, interesting and mutually beneficial.

It seems like Dish just tosses updates out into the world, crosses their fingers and then responds only to the most serious flaws. But they seldom get ahead as the "fixes" sometimes introduce new bugs (e.g., OTA HD sensitivity reduction).


----------



## c_caz

Anyone see the audio and video off with 284? The synch is just not there and it's very annoying. This is from Digital out and seems even worse through analog out.


----------



## Bobby94928

c_caz said:


> Anyone see the audio and video off with 284? The synch is just not there and it's very annoying. This is from Digital out and seems even worse through analog out.


I'm not seeing that at all. Try a reboot, that has cleared sync problems in the past across all receiver units.


----------



## c_caz

Yeah I've rebooted it, re-ran cables, pulled the plug on it, blah blah blah. I called Dish and got the answer that these are known issues and will be fixed in the January software release of 285. The problem is they mentioned similar problems that will be fixed then said that these are close and probably will fix my issues as well. Great that gives me confidence. I've had this thing for over a year and been happy with it, but now I'm not. I guess its just over a year so the warranty is up too. Nice.


----------



## Jason Nipp

c_caz said:


> Yeah I've rebooted it, re-ran cables, pulled the plug on it, blah blah blah. I called Dish and got the answer that these are known issues and will be fixed in the January software release of 285. The problem is they mentioned similar problems that will be fixed then said that these are close and probably will fix my issues as well. Great that gives me confidence. I've had this thing for over a year and been happy with it, but now I'm not. I guess its just over a year so the warranty is up too. Nice.


It this issue happening on OTA or Sat for you?


----------



## c_caz

Both. Seem's to be on all channels right now. Probably more pronounced on OTA, although I DVD-R'd a show from HDNET and it was probably the worst I saw.

I've seen the jitter/pause on poor OTA received stations, and this is nothing like that. Just a miss in the synch between audio and video.


----------



## citico

I am still stuck on 281. When will 284 go wide spread? I am now using my OTA tuner
on my Pio 1120. No problems with OTA or Sat with that combo. I would like to go back
to the 811 for OTA. Saves having to change inputs but the Harmony remote takes care of that for me. But I could get rid of one optical audio cable.


----------



## Bobby94928

Should go out tomorrow.....


----------



## Ron Barry

moman19 said:


> WJD,
> 
> This quide issue is so sparodic (I think it was more than 2 weeks between occurances), that I would prefer to live with it as is rather than disable the PIG...something that I use all the time. If it's hapenning to me, the chances are high that it will happen to many other 811 users. This is shoddy.


Well I have seen it. And based on what I have read others have. So you are looking at 2 wks between occurances. Well someone was claiming it occuring 2 to 3 times a day. I could see how you could live with it with that frequence.



moman19 said:


> Too bad Dish doesn't elect to use guys like us as true Beta testers. A real-time 2-way dialog would help them iron out all these bugs faster while avoiding/reducing the never-ending "fixes". In reality, this forum is a de facto Beta test resource for them but we have no way of knowing how much, if any, of our feedback is taken seriously...No one is anking me any questions. As an early TiVo Beta tester, I provided much input that actually got incorporated into the current product. It was fun, rewarding, interesting and mutually beneficial.


My understanding is that even prior to this forum, Dish has 811 Beta Testers. I know of at least one on here. I myself am not one.



moman19 said:


> It seems like Dish just tosses updates out into the world, crosses their fingers and then responds only to the most serious flaws. But they seldom get ahead as the "fixes" sometimes introduce new bugs (e.g., OTA HD sensitivity reduction).


I have to disagree here. I have had my 811 since last year and it has improved in terms of stability and features since then. Contrary to popular believe, I am sure Dish does not just through a bunch of hack fixes in and then ship it out to the work hoping for the best. In my opinion Dish needs to improve their software development process to produce more reliable code, but I am sure they don't do as you suggested. The fact that I know that their are beta testers that get Beta code is an indication of this fact.

On the OTA HD sensitivity. If you followed the last year you would not have made this statement. Go back at take a look at history. For the most part, the HD sensitivity has been fixed.

Over the last couple of releases, the bugs that we have found have been of the type that not everyone sees them. I would be more worried if the bugs that were being reported where the type that we all saw them. That would indicate the over the fence development stratagy.

... Now back to the "No Info....

I did some adhoc testing over the weekend using my Pronto and the 811 tuner and I did get the "No Info" to occur a few times. I did this by holding down the channel up, followed by a pause, followed by holding it up again. This was not easy to reproduce.

However, What I saw was the "Getting Guide Data" screen on top of the EPG with the entries showing as "No Info". I then was able to hit Cancel. Bring up the EPG again and it still showed the "Getting Guide Data"  screen. After doing this a few times and then waiting eventually it did get Guide Data and I was back on track.

Not sure is this is the same thing other people are seeing but it might be related. I have yet to see the corruption that Gary mention. I have seen it in the past, but that was a few released ago.


----------



## fixoman

Alot of people have mixed reveiws on the 811. I have owned mine since 12/03 and have the p284 software version. I must admit I was going to throw in the towel and go elsewhere but the 284 solved almost all of the glitches I had with my receiver. A friend of mine just went with Directv and had the samsung 360 installed, you think the 811 had issues. The grass is not always greener on the other side.


----------



## Jason Nipp

fixoman said:


> Alot of people have mixed reveiws on the 811. I have owned mine since 12/03 and have the p284 software version. I must admit I was going to throw in the towel and go elsewhere but the 284 solved almost all of the glitches I had with my receiver. A friend of mine just went with Directv and had the samsung 360 installed, you think the 811 had issues. The grass is not always greener on the other side.


Please keep general discussion in the "General Dishnetwork" forum. This forum is intended to be for support only.

Thanks,
Jason


----------



## moman19

WJD: Dish may have Beta testers, but with all these bugs slipping thru, one must wonder how many there are and how good they are. We're not making this stuff up, you know.



WeeJavaDude said:


> ....On the OTA HD sensitivity. If you followed the last year you would not have made this statement. Go back at take a look at history. For the most part, the HD sensitivity has been fixed......


WJD, I'm not sure you fully understand the issue I have identified and experienced twice with P284. OTA sensitivity of all my local channels is typically in the upper 80s and low 90s. Very stable with a good OTA outdoor antenna. I have no complaints until, withouit warning, ALL my OTA channels each loose approx. 30 percentage points. This results in a few that will not lock and a few that freeze up. The only "cure" is to unplug the 811, count to 10 and plug it back in. After the re-boot & Guide downlload all my OTA channels are majically back to upper 80s and low 90s. I am unable to duplicate this on demand.

Strange, huh?


----------



## Ron Barry

moman19 said:


> WJD: Dish may have Beta testers, but with all these bugs slipping thru, one must wonder how many there are and how good they are. We're not making this stuff up, you know.


Beta programs are always a hit and miss. I personally have been on the development side of a number of them. Some are successful if they are properly managed others are not. Lots of things go into a successful Beta program.

As for making stuff up, never said anyone was. Not sure where you would get this impression. As to bugs slipping through. We all use these boxes differently and most of the bugs getting reported know are of the type that do not effect all users. Beta program may or may not catch bugs that are depending on external variables or particular use cases.



moman19 said:


> WJD, I'm not sure you fully understand the issue I have identified and experienced twice with P284. OTA sensitivity of all my local channels is typically in the upper 80s and low 90s. Very stable with a good OTA outdoor antenna. I have no complaints until, withouit warning, ALL my OTA channels each loose approx. 30 percentage points. This results in a few that will not lock and a few that freeze up. The only "cure" is to unplug the 811, count to 10 and plug it back in. After the re-boot & Guide downlload all my OTA channels are majically back to upper 80s and low 90s. I am unable to duplicate this on demand.
> 
> Strange, huh?


Well I was mainly discussing the "No Info" Issue. The comment about the HD sensitivity was referring back to when a lot of people were having what was called the 49% issue. As to you loosing percentage points, I have not seen any other reports like what you described. With 2.84 going widespread tomorrow it will be interesting if anyone else reports this sudden loss percentage points.


----------



## NightRyder

According to the Dish website the 2.84 software update should now be in wide release. Anyone still waiting should now be able to receive the upgrade.

http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/customerCare/technical/software_versions/index.asp

NightRyder


----------



## Bobby94928

Try this one: http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/customerCare/technical/software_versions/index.asp


----------



## garypen

For me, the previous SW was more stable. (281 or 282. I really don't know.)


----------



## Mikey

P2.84 is a BIG improvement over P2.82.


----------



## Jason Nipp

Mikey said:


> P2.84 is a BIG improvement over P2.82.


More noticeable of improvements are to LCD users such as myself. Adjustments to be more complimentary with the new Dish offered LCDs were made. And improvements they are as In my opinion my picture, both SD and HD, is much cleaner, more defined, no crushing, and with 0 pixel breakups. In the time I have been on P284 I haven't seen any of the OTA glitches reported in the previous thread. Though I do have newer hardware version than most in the last poll.


----------



## Jason Nipp

As of this morning 54% of all users are on P284. P284 will be "Forced" next week to the remainder of users. Force date yet to be decided.

I also have P285 release notes coming in. Not cleared to post yet but it is something in there that many have been waiting for. Not useful to all though. And no I am not talking about DD 5.1. Will post P285 shortly.

I will also be finding a way to embed a spreadsheet so you guys can see the open feedback on your previous questions. Give me a few days on this one.

Thanks,
Jason

Information in this post is copyright Jason Nipp and DBSTalk. It may not be copied in full or part without written consent.


----------



## Mikey

Jason Nipp said:


> I also have P285 release notes coming in.


I like P2.84. I guess now's the time to change my settings to block automatic download. I'll wait for early adopter feedback on P2.85. 
Thanks Jason.
P.S. Still looking for those release notes.


----------



## garypen

Mikey said:


> P2.84 is a BIG improvement over P2.82.


It must have been 281, then. I may not have even used the 811 with 282. I went for quite a while using only the 721.


----------



## citico

Went back to OTA on the 811 disconnecting my OTA from my PIO media box and
what a big improvement 2.84 is over the 2.81. Never got 2.82. Have not had any
lockups or had to reboot with this new software. I had one of the very first 811
boxes issued and finally they are working out the numerous problems that we have
suffered through. Hope 2.85 makes things even better for the other guys/gals still
having problems.


----------



## bavaria72

Jason Nipp said:


> As of this morning 54% of all users are on P284....


Sucks being one of the 46%. Always a bridesmaid........


----------



## Jason Nipp

I have moved all the DD5.1 posts over to this thread.


----------



## bavaria72

AHHH! Now I am one of the 54%!! The major change I see vs. 281 is the 3 day EPG for OTA channels. And it seems I can surf thru the EPG a little faster. Still have the issue of occasionally when switching from one OTA channel to another of the DD not kicking in an so I have to change the channel then come back and DD kicks in. 281 was a very good software load for me. I will certainly change my preference back to "Ask first before downloading new software" and adopt the wait and see stance on 285. Thanks Jason for all of your very hard work! - Art


----------



## moman19

Jason,

It happenned again this afternoon. Make this the 3rd occurance since receiving P284.

I shut off the TV and 811 around midnight, last night with no issues.

I turned both on in the late morning. I found that I was on a satellite channel with full audio & video but could only change channels by punching in a valid channel number. I was unable to change channels via the up & down buttons. When I hit the Guide button, all channels said "No Info". I was unable to perform any guide functions while in the EPG. I could not toggle Favorites, scroll, etc.

I rebooted via the 811 power button and all functionality returned.


----------



## William M.

Jason,

I also have a problem or two since the P284 download.

One of my OTA HD channels is "flickering" as described earlier in this thread.

I followed your instructions in post #4 twice but the channel just does not lock. Any ideas?

Also if I linger on the problem OTA HD channel for 1 minute then channel down from the OTA HD to the OTA analog SD channel, the audio on the SD channel is either silent or loud "pink noise". Changing the channel down and then back up to the same analog SD channel fixes the audio issue.

Thanks in advance for any help!

-Bill M.


----------



## Jason Nipp

moman19 said:


> Jason,
> 
> It happenned again this afternoon. Make this the 3rd occurance since receiving P284.
> 
> I shut off the TV and 811 around midnight, last night with no issues.
> 
> I turned both on in the late morning. I found that I was on a satellite channel with full audio & video but could only change channels by punching in a valid channel number. I was unable to change channels via the up & down buttons. When I hit the Guide button, all channels said "No Info". I was unable to perform any guide functions while in the EPG. I could not toggle Favorites, scroll, etc.
> 
> I rebooted via the 811 power button and all functionality returned.


Moman...the issue is being addressed. For what it's worth I had the issue last night. I could still direct enter channels but had to reboot to regain the guide. It's alot less troublesome and a lot less frequent than BSOD...Well actually it appears to be an inverted BSOD if you think about it. Remember with BSOD you lose audio/video but kept guide info, now you keep audio/video and lose guide...:grin: Seeing the frequency is much less than before I will still categorize P284 as a big improvement.

I will discuss the issue further with the team next week.


----------



## Jason Nipp

William M. said:


> Jason,
> 
> I also have a problem or two since the P284 download.
> 
> One of my OTA HD channels is "flickering" as described earlier in this thread.
> 
> I followed your instructions in post #4 twice but the channel just does not lock. Any ideas?
> 
> Also if I linger on the problem OTA HD channel for 1 minute then channel down from the OTA HD to the OTA analog SD channel, the audio on the SD channel is either silent or loud "pink noise". Changing the channel down and then back up to the same analog SD channel fixes the audio issue.
> 
> Thanks in advance for any help!
> 
> -Bill M.


Hi Bill, I haven't seen this issue yet but I will discuss it on with the team on Monday. Please private message me your email address and contact info in case they wish to contact you directly.


----------



## jenkinswoody

I need advice.......who doesnt huh?

Anyway, My 811 failed to cycle through the update about a dozen times. Tried soft boot- hard boot- over several hours even. Always getting stuck at one place or another. I talked to a tech and still nothing- and he was quite perplexed. He said, let me send you another. I said okay. real nice guy btw. Damned if i didnt turn it off and come back an hour later and 284 took! :grin: 

So, I tried to have them stop the shipment (too late). The shipment costs me nothing and I could switch out if I wanted too. I really dont want to unplug everything though and start from scratch. Can anyone see any reason to switch out the 811's? Keep in mind that this is the first major issue that ive had......

Thanks in advance,
Tom


----------



## Jason Nipp

jenkinswoody said:


> I need advice.......who doesnt huh?
> 
> Anyway, My 811 failed to cycle through the update about a dozen times. Tried soft boot- hard boot- over several hours even. Always getting stuck at one place or another. I talked to a tech and still nothing- and he was quite perplexed. He said, let me send you another. I said okay. real nice guy btw. Damned if i didnt turn it off and come back an hour later and 284 took! :grin:
> 
> So, I tried to have them stop the shipment (too late). The shipment costs me nothing and I could switch out if I wanted too. I really dont want to unplug everything though and start from scratch. Can anyone see any reason to switch out the 811's? Keep in mind that this is the first major issue that ive had......
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> Tom


Tom, I have had 2 occurances of update glitches, haven't had it occur on the last 2-3 updates though. This is usually caused by a flag the didn't reset properly. There are ways to compensate and clear the flags manually but the risk associated with it gos beyond being patient and waiting for it to take automatically, which it eventually will when it hangs up. As far as swapping out the receiver? Completely up to you. I'd be cautious if the express exchange is a used receiver which it could be. Hit Sys info on both receivers, jot down the Receiver ID, Serial, Boot Strap, and Processor Number. There is no hidden meaning to this, but in my personal opinion I would keep the newer of the two boxes.


----------



## moman19

Jason Nipp said:


> Moman...the issue is being addressed. For what it's worth I had the issue last night. I could still direct enter channels but had to reboot to regain the guide. It's alot less troublesome and a lot less frequent than BSOD...Well actually it appears to be an inverted BSOD if you think about it. Remember with BSOD you lose audio/video but kept guide info, now you keep audio/video and lose guide...:grin: Seeing the frequency is much less than before I will still categorize P284 as a big improvement.
> 
> I will discuss the issue further with the team next week.


It's good to hear that you saw this too...it makes this less of a one-of-a-kind problem. I agree that this issue is much less severe and frequent than the P282 BSOD nonesense. P284 is MUCH easiler to live with. Hopefully, a fix for this bug will get incorporated into the next update.

BTW, you're right. This is exactly the opposite of the P282 BSOD.


----------



## Bubba3

I also think P284 is great step forward. The only problem I have had , besides no 5.1, is OTA HD "flickering" in and out at about 1 sec. intervals . This my strongest station and the tuner in my TV receives it fine. Thanks in advace for any help or suggestions.
Brad


----------



## William M.

Bubba3,

Check out Jason Nipp's post (#4) in this thread.

That post contains steps you can take to try to get rid of the flickering issue.


----------



## moman19

William M. said:


> Bubba3,
> 
> Check out Jason Nipp's post (#4) in this thread.
> 
> That post contains steps you can take to try to get rid of the flickering issue.


Jason's advice did work for me. You must unplug the receiver. Did you happen to notice if your signal strength dropped? Mine went from the 90's to the 50's. Unplugginf fixed this but it happened again once or twice since.


----------



## fixoman

moman19 said:


> Jason's advice did work for me. You must unplug the receiver. Did you happen to notice if your signal strength dropped? Mine went from the 90's to the 50's. Unplugginf fixed this but it happened again once or twice since.


I too have an OTA channel that is now flickering but thought it was station related. Contacted station and was informed that no changes were made in there transmission. The funny thing is that if you hit the info button the flickering would stop but as soon as the view or cancel button were hit to remove info box flickering would resume. PS did check signal strength in set up menu and it stayed at the 92%-95% range. Some one please HELP, this is the only CBS HD feed I can receive.


----------



## Bubba3

Thanks, post #4 fixed it.


----------



## khearrean

I did not see this issue in Jason's 811 2.84 release notes as a planned fix, but has anyone else noticed a significant improvement in PQ when watching SD material on SAT with their 811? Maybe for me, it's totally coincidental, but I have noticed a big improvement in my PQ on SD channels...I thought I did see something posted regarding improvement with LCD units, but I have a Hitachi 51" HD RPTV...

Ken


----------



## Pils

The SD seems better on mine as well. Don't know if they changed the stretching effect or what.


----------



## Jason Nipp

khearrean said:


> I did not see this issue in Jason's 811 2.84 release notes as a planned fix, but has anyone else noticed a significant improvement in PQ when watching SD material on SAT with their 811? Maybe for me, it's totally coincidental, but I have noticed a big improvement in my PQ on SD channels...I thought I did see something posted regarding improvement with LCD units, but I have a Hitachi 51" HD RPTV...
> 
> Ken


Ken, I think I did post later on the enhancements were made to compliment their new LCD TV's. Yes, on my LCD and my Plasma, the picture quality has improved substantially...For a CRT...I haven't tried the 811 on a CRT yet, I guess you could try, I am not home now to do it myself.


----------



## khearrean

Jason Nipp said:


> Ken, I think I did post later on the enhancements were made to compliment their new LCD TV's. Yes, on my LCD and my Plasma, the picture quality has improved substantially...For a CRT...I haven't tried the 811 on a CRT yet, I guess you could try, I am not home now to do it myself.


My Hitachi is a CRT; it just seems the PQ is much better and not the smeary "oil-painting" appearance I reported before. Maybe it has nothing to do with 2.84 particularly since I had been told before on this forum that it was probably due to compression issues & I doubt a software fix would correct that.

ken


----------



## davidhite

fixoman said:


> I too have an OTA channel that is now flickering but thought it was station related. Contacted station and was informed that no changes were made in there transmission. The funny thing is that if you hit the info button the flickering would stop but as soon as the view or cancel button were hit to remove info box flickering would resume. PS did check signal strength in set up menu and it stayed at the 92%-95% range. Some one please HELP, this is the only CBS HD feed I can receive.


I'm having this problem with both my 811s running p284. Both picture and sound flicker on and off. I tried the suggestion in post 4 to no avail. 
This is only on ABC hd OTA, all other channels work fine. Signal strength is 78. If I press the info button the problem goes away. A message box about changing HD zoom modes comes and goes with the picture occasionally. The picture and sound also work fine in the guide with "Partial guide with video" turned on.


----------



## washington

I'm having the same exact problems with P284.


----------



## davidhite

davidhite said:


> I'm having this problem with both my 811s running p284. Both picture and sound flicker on and off. I tried the suggestion in post 4 to no avail.
> This is only on ABC hd OTA, all other channels work fine. Signal strength is 78. If I press the info button the problem goes away. A message box about changing HD zoom modes comes and goes with the picture occasionally. The picture and sound also work fine in the guide with "Partial guide with video" turned on.


I contacted the station yesterday. They said they had made some recent changes having to do with incorporating PSIP info. They said they made some further changes and to try it again. It's working fine now. I didn't have to rescan.


----------



## moman19

I've recently noticed that at times, my EPG data only goes out about 2.5 hours and loops back if I attempt to go further out. Since P284 has been fairly stable, I no longer shut off my 811 evenings, but I do make sure I'm parked on a satellite channel vs. an OTA whenever I power down my TV. I figure that this would ensure that my Guide remained updated.

For example, I parked my 811 on Fox News Channel 205 for 8 hours or so today. When I turned the TV on I had "No Info" on all channels in the EPG and the 811 immediately went into Update mode as soon as I touched my remote.

What's up with this? Is there a different channel I could park my 811 on that would ensure EPG updating? I simply do not want to power down the 811 every time I power off my set. I thought the guide held a few DAYS worth of guide info, so I'm a bit perplexed as to why it lost all data after only a few hours of inactivity.


----------



## Jason Nipp

moman19 said:


> I simply do not want to power down the 811 every time I power off my set.


 Why not? No you leave your microwave oven cooking when nothings in it? Do you leave your bedroom light on while you sleep? Yes I know these are very exhaterated examples but really...Why not?



moman19 said:


> I thought the guide held a few DAYS worth of guide info, so I'm a bit perplexed as to why it lost all data after only a few hours of inactivity.


DAYS?...Not yet.


----------



## khearrean

Even though I've already made this statement much earlier in this thread, I've got to say again that Dish's SD PQ (at least for me) has never been better! I'm so impressed lately as it actually seems it's even improving daily (if that's possible). Whether this is the result of 2.84 or not, I don't know....but it's great, I'm lovin' it & it's been a long time coming....Maybe this is a sign of better things to come..Hope..hope..hope..

Ken


----------



## moman19

Jason Nipp said:


> Why not? No you leave your microwave oven cooking when nothings in it? Do you leave your bedroom light on while you sleep? Yes I know these are very exhaterated examples but really...Why not?


Simple answer: I have small kids and a technology-challenged wife. That's why. This was never a problem with my SD Dish receivers (I know....no OTA with those) so I assumed that as long as I "parked" my receiver on a satellite channel when the TV is not being watched, the receiver would still be able to keep the guide current. Must the receiver be powered off to receive Guide updates? Or can it just be on a satellite channel and NOT tuned to an OTA station? If it's the latter, everyone who watched more than a few straight hours of TV would experience this issue. Perhaps it needs to be tuned to CERTAIN channels or satellites.

I thought it only had to be powered off to receive software updates.



Jason Nipp said:


> DAYS?...Not yet.


How far does it go out then? Surely more than 2.5 hours. I know because I've seen more than that. But at times, that's all I seem able to access, although I've been tuned to a satellite channel for hours.


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## Bobby94928

I've seen it go out as many as 46 hours.


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## Jason Nipp

moman19 said:


> Simple answer: I have small kids and a technology-challenged wife. I thought it only had to be powered off to receive software updates.


I also have a technically challenged wife and kids. The integrated OTA tuner of the 811 makes life so much easier. Before the integrated tuner for OTA we had to deal with just a "pass-thru" and we had to toggle the TV/Video switch on the receiver to watch OTA. Parking on a certain channel? I never had any issues to support the concept of this work around, I have heard it though. I turn my receiver off with the remote (power to standby) whenever it is not in use. When in standby it will still refresh, download updates, etc. Not to mention my 811 is in a cabinet and it gets pretty hot in there. So I like to shut everything down to at least it's low power standby state when not in use.




moman19 said:


> How far does it go out then? Surely more than 2.5 hours. I know because I've seen more than that. But at times, that's all I seem able to access, although I've been tuned to a satellite channel for hours.


*FROM 811 Team:*

*The current guide is up to 48 hours out. It may be only 45 when on the boundary of a change in tables for the guide. We have a format of a two day guide on the satellite that supports receivers without hard drives and a "N" day guide (currently at up to 9 days out) which supports receivers with hard drives and enough memory to cache it. What we are working on in the 811 is to make it use the "N" day guide and only hold the 3 days since there is not enough memory (RAM) to hold the entire guide. Since the guide is stored in RAM, it would be lost if you remove power to the 811 or cause it to reboot and the receiver will download a new guide when it boots.*
*There is also a set of event information tables (EIT) supporting the guide called "present/following." The EIT-PF are carried on every transponder which is why the "browse" feature lets you see what is on now and next so quickly. All other guide tables are only on one transponder per satellite which is why if they get out date, new guide tables must be downloaded.*


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## moman19

Jason Nipp said:


> I also have a technically challenged wife and kids. The integrated OTA tuner of the 811 makes life so much easier. Before the integrated tuner for OTA we had to deal with just a "pass-thru" and we had to toggle the TV/Video switch on the receiver to watch OTA. Parking on a certain channel? I never had any issues to support the concept of this work around, I have heard it though. I turn my receiver off with the remote (power to standby) whenever it is not in use. When in standby it will still refresh, download updates, etc. Not to mention my 811 is in a cabinet and it gets pretty hot in there. So I like to shut everything down to at least it's low power standby state when not in use.
> 
> *FROM 811 Team:*
> 
> *The current guide is up to 48 hours out. It may be only 45 when on the boundary of a change in tables for the guide. We have a format of a two day guide on the satellite that supports receivers without hard drives and a "N" day guide (currently at up to 9 days out) which supports receivers with hard drives and enough memory to cache it. What we are working on in the 811 is to make it use the "N" day guide and only hold the 3 days since there is not enough memory (RAM) to hold the entire guide. Since the guide is stored in RAM, it would be lost if you remove power to the 811 or cause it to reboot and the receiver will download a new guide when it boots.*
> *There is also a set of event information tables (EIT) supporting the guide called "present/following." The EIT-PF are carried on every transponder which is why the "browse" feature lets you see what is on now and next so quickly. All other guide tables are only on one transponder per satellite which is why if they get out date, new guide tables must be downloaded.*


Jason & Team: Why then am I experiencing what I've reported in earlier posts? As previously mentioned, there are times when I've been tuned to a SAT channel for 12 hours or more yet my Guide data only goes out 2.5 hours and loops back to the present time when I try to go further.


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## garypen

Equipment that works right, and as advertised, when it's released. Kooky request, huh?


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## julesism

this is in response to the no info/frozen guide bug i am having. i checked all my cables as ron suggested. i'm 100% RG6. from pan(s) to DPP44, DPP44 to diplexer, diplexer drop to wall, wall to diplexer, diplexer to 811.

any more ideas ?


----------



## Mikey

garypen said:


> Equipment that works right, and as advertised, when it's released. Kooky request, huh?


There is no perfect code, just undiscovered bugs.  
My 811 wasn't perfect when I got it a year ago, but it was good enough. I'm glad I didn't wait until it was perfect. I would have missed a lot of good shows.


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## Ron Barry

julesism said:


> this is in response to the no info/frozen guide bug i am having. i checked all my cables as ron suggested. i'm 100% RG6. from pan(s) to DPP44, DPP44 to diplexer, diplexer drop to wall, wall to diplexer, diplexer to 811.
> 
> any more ideas ?


Given what Jason has indicated as being a root cause. I am not sure how to get around this one. I would try disabling the Picture in EPG and see if that minimizes your problem.

What concerns me with your case is that it is happend 2 to 3 times a day. The only time that I have heard about this occuring was from someone that did a hardware change to fix it. When you check your cables did you check the connections to?

Almost all reports I have read about the no info as a frequence of ever couple of days. You seem to have the magic touch. Maybe if you describe how you use the Box it might give some insight to what might be the root cause and what to avoid.

Other than that I am not sure what other advice I can offer. Maybe Jason has some additional suggestions.


----------



## misterdsp

Ron Barry said:


> Almost all reports I have read about the no info as a frequence of ever couple of days. You seem to have the magic touch.


My 811 has the "no info" guide bug too, but only every couple of days and I don't know what triggers it. Most of these problems seem to be more frequent when switching from OTA to satellite or vice versa. It's just another bug among the many that remain. I get a reboot about once a day, usually because I have to manually reboot or occasionally the box gets into a messed up state and reboots itself.

Designing a consumer product that only works fully if it is turned off at night is at best short sighted, and in my opinion, stupid. I understand the reason why it is as it is, but from a users perspective, this is nutty.


----------



## Jason Nipp

misterdsp said:


> My 811 has the "no info" guide bug too, but only every couple of days and I don't know what triggers it. Most of these problems seem to be more frequent when switching from OTA to satellite or vice versa. It's just another bug among the many that remain. I get a reboot about once a day, usually because I have to manually reboot or occasionally the box gets into a messed up state and reboots itself.
> 
> Designing a consumer product that only works fully if it is turned off at night is at best short sighted, and in my opinion, stupid. I understand the reason why it is as it is, but from a users perspective, this is nutty.


Guys, as stated earlier in the thread the no info bug is 1 of the 3 known MPEG encoder startup issues. The BSOD was the most prevalent and now that it's pretty much gone the other two are more noticeable. Over the next two software releases we should see the other 2 go away. P285 is going to rollout to partial release soon...so it's not going to be months before the fixes are applied.

In this thread we have discussed a lot of good feedback, and trust me when I state that it is being used. The purpose of creating this forum was to provide a support forum to gain mutual cooperation and clear the lines of communication to the product team. This is why I keep asking for the forum to stay technical and the bashing to remain in the General Dish Forum. With the feedback your providing here, E* has a clearer idea of what's going on, and it allows them to see how widespread a certain bug maybe. As a result I am seeing more of the ideas being used and one can see this also equates to more timely software rollouts.

Please keep this in mind...Without this mutual relationship it becomes more difficult to accomplish improving our product as our voices are harder to hear as individuals than as networked teams. And trust me calling the call center and letting those people have a piece of your mind isn't going to expedite a fix. Together we can make a difference. (Geeze I sound like a motivational speaker, like one that "lives in a van down by the river"...huh?  )

And I never said it must be turned off at night, I only said I recommend it. And if you don't want to that's your choice. May your quest to disband Energy Star be successful...:grin:

Best Regards,


----------



## gsel

Jason Nipp
[b said:


> There is also a set of event information tables (EIT) supporting the guide called "present/following." The EIT-PF are carried on every transponder which is why the "browse" feature lets you see what is on now and next so quickly. All other guide tables are only on one transponder per satellite which is why if they get out date, new guide tables must be downloaded.


*

Does everyone understand what is stated here? Only one transponder per satellite has the full guide. All of the others only have a short guide period (current program and the next). If you leave your 811 turned on and left on a certain channel all the time, you are playing the odds as to whether that channel is one with the guide. If you turn the 811 off when not in use, it should find the full guide transponder and update itself. My 811 is turned off when not in use and the guide always goes out almost 2 full days, as they say it should. 
Remember, there are only a few channels on a transponder and many transponders on a satellite, so the odds of picking the right one yourself are slim.*


----------



## rocatman

gsel said:


> Does everyone understand what is stated here? Only one transponder per satellite has the full guide. All of the others only have a short guide period (current program and the next). If you leave your 811 turned on and left on a certain channel all the time, you are playing the odds as to whether that channel is one with the guide. If you turn the 811 off when not in use, it should find the full guide transponder and update itself. My 811 is turned off when not in use and the guide always goes out almost 2 full days, as they say it should.
> Remember, there are only a few channels on a transponder and many transponders on a satellite, so the odds of picking the right one yourself are slim.


The 811 uses the 44 hour guide. According to the following website, this guide is on TP 19 on the 119 satellite and TP 21 on the 110 satellite. These are listed at the bottom of the big table on this website.

http://ekb.dbstalk.com/dishlist.htm

If you browse up thtrough the table for channels on these TPs, A&E channel 118 and the History Channel, channel 120 are on TP 19 at 119 and VH1 Classics, channel 163 and some premimum movie channels, HBO Latino, channel 309, Showtime Showcase, channel 321 are on TP 21 at 110. I don't know if you leave your receiver on at these channels whether the guide will update but if someone who likes to leave their receiver on all the time is welcome to test it out.


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## misterdsp

rocatman said:


> If you browse up thtrough the table for channels on these TPs, A&E channel 118 and the History Channel, channel 120 are on TP 19 at 119 and VH1 Classics, channel 163 and some premimum movie channels, HBO Latino, channel 309, Showtime Showcase, channel 321 are on TP 21 at 110. I don't know if you leave your receiver on at these channels whether the guide will update but if someone who likes to leave their receiver on all the time is welcome to test it out.


I think your information is useful and I'll try what you suggest.

Even if it helps, asking consumers to leave their receiver tuned to a particular channel is not really an improvement over asking consumers to turn off the receiver to make it function correctly. I can just imagine Dell telling their customers to turn off their computers every night so they can work properly - LOL.

This guide flaw (feature?) is part of the Dish architecture and we have to live with it. It's not a big deal for most people, but I wonder how many extra support calls are generated because of the flaw.


----------



## Jason Nipp

misterdsp said:


> I can just imagine Dell telling their customers to turn off their computers every night so they can work properly - LOL.


OK, lets look at this example and add my 2 cents.
I use Dell products everyday...They are far from flawless, just as any other manufacturer I know and have experience with. Don't get me wrong I like the product features but they don't guarantee 100% uptime and I don't know anyone else who does either. My network admins have to reboot the Dell severs every so often because they either lock up or require a reboot for an update. I see the mainboards of the Latitudes die, harddisks puke, ethernet cards puke, etc... Please don't tell me you have never locked up your computer. I see a lot of guys complain because they want the new products now now now, so that they can enhance their ego and have something really cool to show off to their friends. But at the same time none of these guys care or even consider the inherent frustrations of rapid prototyping. Gates was the pioneer of time to market business strategy and he was very successful selling something he didn't have yet. This is now a common business practice for any company. Get it to the consumer before your competator does. The problem is, whether the "I don't care about HDTV" guys in the forums admit it or not, the consumer will keep buying new product cause they want new toys. Are there other angles and contributors to my summation, sure there is, there is always another side to the coin, but what the heck guys I spent years living with Windows instabilities and overheating Intel Chips. Having to shut down an electrical piece of equipment when not in use so that it can see enough idle time to refresh without interrupting the user, well lets just say everytime I go outside and see the how fast the disc is spinning on my ComEd meter, this doesn't become an issue. It just seems to me some people want to highlight situations and make them more difficult than they need to be. The 811's remote has a separate power buttons for Sat and TV. My 2 yr old and even my 70 something barely cable in-laws can power this stuff on with ease. (Of course with my 2 yr old I leave the channel parked on Nick Ch 170 before going to bed)
:engel02:

Sorry if you find this argumentative and offending, but I think there's more important things to argue about as "flaws". 
:icon_peac

Tivo users: Question, how often does the Tivo refresh and is this best done in standby mode? Does it interfere with the viewing if it isn't in standby? My PCTV asks for a guide refresh every time I pull it out of idle mode.

This post is a personal opinion,
Jason


----------



## moman19

rocatman said:


> ....If you browse up thtrough the table for channels on these TPs, A&E channel 118 and the History Channel, channel 120 are on TP 19 at 119 and VH1 Classics, channel 163 and some premimum movie channels, HBO Latino, channel 309, Showtime Showcase, channel 321 are on TP 21 at 110. I don't know if you leave your receiver on at these channels whether the guide will update but if someone who likes to leave their receiver on all the time is welcome to test it out.


There must be more to this than meets the eye. I almost never watch any of those particular channels. Yet my guide seems updated MOST of the time. How is that accomplished? Conversely, If I stayed 100% locked on say, CNN (or any channel on another transponder) for a full week, I assume my guide would be completely blank. Not sure if that's the case.

Here's an idea for those of us who refuse (or are too lazy) to power-down the 811 daily: Use the 811 TIMERS feature to auto-tune to A&E channel 118 every morning at say, 4 AM. When you turn on your TV later that day, you'll still be on A&E but just might have an up to date guide and can navigate from there. Of course, this assumes that tuning to Channel 118 actually updates the Guide better than being on another SAT channel.


----------



## mntmst

So if I were to design a girder function to send IR to make the 811 tune to a channel say at 4:00 am everday. What channel and how long to stay there to keep the guide updated?


----------



## misterdsp

Jason Nipp said:


> OK, lets look at this example and add my 2 cents.
> I use Dell products everyday...They are far from flawless, just as any other manufacturer I know and have experience with. Don't get me wrong I like the product features but they don't guarantee 100% uptime and I don't know anyone else who does either......
> Sorry if you find this argumentative and offending, but I think there's more important things to argue about as "flaws".
> 
> Jason


I never get offended by opinions, sometimes by actions 

My PC's run 24/7, and only get rebooted when Microsoft send out yet another crucial security update that demands a reboot. Truthfully, I have 100% uptime except for the security reboots and run lots of different apps and every PCI slot is used. I don't own Dell though.

I suspect that you wouldn't buy a Dell if they told you their PC's would only run at 100% if you turn them off every night. I got my 811 before I learned of the guide issues. Back when I first got the 811 in December 2003, the advertised 2 day guide was in reality a 2 hour guide. For the first 6 months, channel recall from OTA to satellite didn't work and the SD video outputs had very crushed blacks. Those were the 811 dark days, literally! The guide issue isn't that big of a deal, it's just the icing on the cake.

It's great that Dish are still persevering and trying to produce a 811 software that can really be considered to be above beta quality. I might not complete the ride though, because my contract is up in May, there is a 7% price increase on my plan (more than my local cable increase) and there needs to be a clear transition plan to mpeg4 for us existing customers.

The 811 still has great potential, but when you own it for 14 months and are still fighting many of the same problems, it's tiresome. I'm cheesed off enough to look at cable and directtv in May.


----------



## Mikey

misterdsp said:


> ... The 811 still has great potential, but when you own it for 14 months and are still fighting many of the same problems, it's tiresome. I'm cheesed off enough to look at cable and directtv in May.


How sad. To stick with the 811 through the dark days, then leave when the worst is over.

What if Dish postpones their plans to go to MPEG-4 this year, what with the pending availability of the VOOM satellite? MPEG-2 may be around for another year or two. What if the D* satellite has development issues, or plops into the ocean at launch? Didn't you know that cable and D* are raising rates this year too?

There are lots of uncertainties to ponder, but you're looking at giving up a known product (with certain faults) for an unknown product, that will cost several hundred dollars to acquire. If you think your 811 has reached the end of it's lifecycle, drop it and take another path. I think there's some risk in going that way.

It's okay to be upset, but it's not like your 811 sat on the shelf unused for 14 months.


----------



## julesism

even tho i have the "no info" problem very often, i hope i never sounded like i was upset about it. while it is annoying, it's a known issue so i'm not going to pout or rant about it. it seemed like i was getting it a bit more often than i should, so i mentioned it here.

when i looked at the cables, i also made sure they were not loose.

everytime it has happened to me, i'm pretty sure i have been watching an OTA station. i usually watch more OTA than sat on the 811. i use our 522 to watch normal SD stuff.

i'm happy knowing that i can just hold the power button for 10secs instead of moving the TV to unlpug the 811 

hopefully we'll see a fix soon. until then, i'm enjoying my 811 and the bugs it has cuz it's better than nothing!


----------



## Ron Barry

misterdsp said:


> I never get offended by opinions, sometimes by actions
> 
> My PC's run 24/7, and only get rebooted when Microsoft send out yet another crucial security update that demands a reboot. Truthfully, I have 100% uptime except for the security reboots and run lots of different apps and every PCI slot is used. I don't own Dell though.
> 
> I suspect that you wouldn't buy a Dell if they told you their PC's would only run at 100% if you turn them off every night. I got my 811 before I learned of the guide issues. Back when I first got the 811 in December 2003, the advertised 2 day guide was in reality a 2 hour guide. For the first 6 months, channel recall from OTA to satellite didn't work and the SD video outputs had very crushed blacks. Those were the 811 dark days, literally! The guide issue isn't that big of a deal, it's just the icing on the cake.
> 
> It's great that Dish are still persevering and trying to produce a 811 software that can really be considered to be above beta quality. I might not complete the ride though, because my contract is up in May, there is a 7% price increase on my plan (more than my local cable increase) and there needs to be a clear transition plan to mpeg4 for us existing customers.
> 
> The 811 still has great potential, but when you own it for 14 months and are still fighting many of the same problems, it's tiresome. I'm cheesed off enough to look at cable and directtv in May.


I fully understand your frustration, I have been on the 811 for a long time myselve and have been through all the issues that have been mentioned. I also and a 6000 and dealt with the "Acquiring bug on a daily basis".

This is starting to wonder a bit outside the bounds of this forum. There is a great discussion going on as to the current state of the guide so lets try and keep it on the issues and not wonder into why we are planning on leaving Dish. If you want to go down that road create thread in the main forum.

The 811 has surely taken a long road and there is still work to be done. It has come a long way and at this point in its life there are more people happy with it than not from what I can see. There is still however issues and still people having problems.

6 months ago, there was no official 811 forum and release notes where something we only wished for. Today through the Jason's hard work and through Dish listening to our voice we have release notes and a line of communication. I personallly would like to see that line of communication stay open and that we focus on the present and the future with the 811 and future receivers.

As to the 24/7 comment, well Windows NT for a long time required reboots on a daily basis. It was recommended from MS themselves. On another note, I don't recall the last time I rebooted my 811 because of corruption or memory leaks. The point is we all have our use cases and our experience with this box and the differ widely.

I am not trying to stifily discussions here. It is the goal here to try and stay on direct 811 technical issues.

As to the guide issue, I think there are somethings we don't understand yet.

1) There are people using the 811 and not parking on these channels on the same transpoder as the guide but seem to have good data? Is everyone with a good guide turning their box off?

2) THere is the No Info issue that is mudding the waters with guide data know. I think there might be another bug that results in minimum guide data.

3) We need to understand how the guide works better so as users there might be some things we can do to insure a good guide. I don't think there is some missing pieces.


----------



## moman19

Ron,

See my post # 121 on page 5. Perhaps the 811 team can address my points. In summary, would parking the 811 every evening on channel 118 increase our chances to keep the Guide current & eliminate "NO INFO" issues? (If the answer is YES, how then does the guide get updated if I NEVER tune to any channels on the essential transponders?)

BTW, I have already established a daily auto-tune to ch.118 on TIMERS to see if the EPG issues diminish. Watch this space. Perhaps others can join in & report back.


----------



## misterdsp

Ron Barry said:


> 6 months ago, there was no official 811 forum and release notes where something we only wished for. Today through the Jason's hard work and through Dish listening to our voice we have release notes and a line of communication. I personallly would like to see that line of communication stay open and that we focus on the present and the future with the 811 and future receivers.


It's a very positive development, having the 811 forum here and hopefully the concerns raised are getting attention at Dish. Jason has more patience and tolerance than I do 

I'm a bit jaded on the 811 as you can tell, but if Dish are smart they will get things turned around and come out of the gate later this year with a terrific mpeg4 HDTV box that has stable code with all advertised features and an improved robust OTA 8VSB tuner. Will long suffering 811 customers get a good deal on that box?


----------



## Mikey

misterdsp said:


> It's a very positive development, having the 811 forum here and hopefully the concerns raised are getting attention at Dish. Jason has more patience and tolerance than I do
> 
> I'm a bit jaded on the 811 as you can tell, but if Dish are smart they will get things turned around and come out of the gate later this year with a terrific mpeg4 HDTV box that has stable code with all advertised features and an improved robust OTA 8VSB tuner. Will long suffering 811 customers get a good deal on that box?


To quote an industry adage: "Fast, Good, Cheap. Pick any two." I would hope that Dish decides to go with Good and Cheap.


----------



## Cholly

Jason Nipp said:


> Tivo users: Question, how often does the Tivo refresh and is this best done in standby mode? Does it interfere with the viewing if it isn't in standby? My PCTV asks for a guide refresh every time I pull it out of idle mode.
> 
> Jason


Jason: TiVo doesn't have a "standby" mode. It's always on. The guide refreshes by making a phone call, or in the case of a broadband connection, by going to the TiVo website to download guide info. My TiVo is connected to my router via USB to Ethernet converter. 
When I installed my old TiVo series 1 at my son's house, I had to get a wireless phone adapter, since there's no phone jack in his living room. On occasion, the unit by the phone jack has become unplugged. He finds out about it a week or two later, when there's no guide data and the TiVo unit complains about it.


----------



## moman19

Cholly said:


> Jason: TiVo doesn't have a "standby" mode. It's always on. The guide refreshes by making a phone call, or in the case of a broadband connection, by going to the TiVo website to download guide info. My TiVo is connected to my router via USB to Ethernet converter.
> When I installed my old TiVo series 1 at my son's house, I had to get a wireless phone adapter, since there's no phone jack in his living room. On occasion, the unit by the phone jack has become unplugged. He finds out about it a week or two later, when there's no guide data and the TiVo unit complains about it.


I too, have a TiVO series 1 but mine is hard wired into my phone line. The issues you descriibe are probably related to the wireless adapter. I've had the TiVO since inception and have NEVER experienced a guide issue. A bad Disk drive that dropped dead out of exhaustion, but never any guide failure. It just doesn't happen. I cannot remember the last time I rebooted my TiVO. It's on a UPS and it might have been 18 months ago due to a close lightening strike.

In the beginning, TiVOs did experience issues, some serious, but things did eventually settle down. As long as Dish keeps its ears open and fixes the existing bugs (which seems to actually be the case), we'll be fine. BSOD was a stupid and fatal flaw that seems to be all but gone. Now we just need to keep on them to eliminate the annoyances.


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## Ron Barry

moman19 said:


> Ron,
> 
> See my post # 121 on page 5. Perhaps the 811 team can address my points. In summary, would parking the 811 every evening on channel 118 increase our chances to keep the Guide current & eliminate "NO INFO" issues? (If the answer is YES, how then does the guide get updated if I NEVER tune to any channels on the essential transponders?)
> 
> BTW, I have already established a daily auto-tune to ch.118 on TIMERS to see if the EPG issues diminish. Watch this space. Perhaps others can join in & report back.


I read your post on 121. I would say for people that want to keep their boxes on 24x7 the timer suggestion might provide a solution. However, I believe the 811 does more to guide management than require keeping the box on an EPG transponder or have the box in standby. I could be wrong and this is my gut talking.

There are a number Dish receivers that have guides that go out more than a couple of days. 508 series comes to mind. I don't remember having issues with that box either.


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## Cholly

To monman19: My comment about the wireless phone adapter was intended as part of my answer to Jason about how frequently TiVo refreshes its guide info. My daughter in-law had unplugged the phone line to the adapter on one occasion in order to plug in her fax machine, and left the line unplugged. They found out about it when a few of their favorite programs failed to get recorded.  I switched from phone line to broadband on my Series 2 around 2 years ago.

But then I digress. :backtotop


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