# Upgrading the internal hard drive on an HR24



## anleva

I have had the great fortune of picking up an owned HR24-500. I'm debating upgrading the internal drive to a 2TB WD20EADS myself. Not sure what I'm getting myself into however. 

Anybody have any instructional tips on how this thing comes apart and what tools you need to have handy? Is there a schematic or service manual anywhere out there? It certainly doesn't look as straightforward as an HR20. Or maybe I should not even bother and just add it externally.


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## Stuart Sweet

OK, I'm probably the only person who will freely admit that he's tried this.

Why? because I took the pictures in the first look and I had DIRECTV's permission. So I have a bit of advice for you: *don't do it.*

I'm not going to give you detailed instructions, but I'm going to tell you that it took every flathead screwdriver I had, plus plastic putty knives and folded up pieces of paper. That was just to get the case off. I also removed a bunch of screws that I didn't need to, apparently.

It took me close to an hour to do all this and I darn near broke the front panel several times. 
Then I got the thing open and you'll find two things: The drive is secured to the sled with wire and the SATA cable is so short it sits flush against the drive. Look at the pictures in the first look.

It was hard to be sure but the sled might also be soldered in.

As far as 2TB is concerned, I am not 100% sure you can even go up that high with an HR24. I know there are some other members of the HR2x family that won't run a 2TB internal.

My suggestion to you, sir... is eSATA.


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## anleva

Thank you Stuart, this is just the sort of advice I needed! :eek2:

That is not the sort of project I really want to get myself into. Looks like eSata and an external enclosure is really the best way to go here.


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## Richierich

Yes the HR24 will handle a 2 TB Hard Drive such as the WD20EADS or WD20EVDS just fine with no problems whatsoever.

Replacing the Internal Hard Drive makes the DVR much Quieter than an eSATA Drive Enclosure. And there are problems sometimes when the DVR Reboots and doesn't recognize the External Drive because the eSATA Controller takes too long to respond so the DVR thinks there is no eSATA Drive attached and boots back up using the Internal Drive. Then you suddenly realize that your Recordings are gone.

They are not gone but just residing on your eSATA Drive which is not being used. Then you have to Reboot again and again until you get lucky and the External Drive is finally recognized.


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## matt

richierich were you able to get yours open and the drive swapped out?


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## Stuart Sweet

Hey look, You all do what you want to with your owned receivers. I don't want to hear about leased ones, we've been down that road before. But I'm just telling you it's an incredible pain to do and even if you're super-careful there's a pretty big chance that you'll destroy that owned DVR.


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## Richierich

Yes and it was a Piece of Cake!!! 

I would not encourage anyone to Open up your DVR though unless you know what you are doing and you OWN your DVR. 

You could get shocked or you could do something that would screw up the DVR. Then your Warranty wouldn't apply.

So Proceed at your own Risk and only if you Own your DVR!!!


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## Doug Brott

richierich said:


> Yes and it was a Piece of Cake!!!
> 
> I would not encourage anyone to Open up your DVR though unless you know what you are doing and you OWN your DVR.
> 
> You could get shocked or you could do something that would screw up the DVR. Then your Warranty wouldn't apply.
> 
> So Proceed at your own Risk and only if you Own your DVR!!!


Rich it was a piece of cake for you because you had someone else do it .. let's be honest here.


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## Richierich

Yes Doug I did have someone who works with Directv and does these things all the time and it cost me a piece of Chocolate Cake with Breyer's French Vanilla Ice Cream!!!

I don't encourage others to do it unless they are good at replacing a drive in a PC for example and they Should Own their Own HR24-500. I have stated that if you are not adept at doing this it could possibly hurt you as if you got shocked or damaged the unit.

Proceed At Your Own Risk!!! Buyer Beware!!!

Knowing what I know now about the Process I could do it in 30 minutes or less and I am not a Rocket Scientist!!! :lol:

Actually my HR24-500 is Performing Flawlessly and I have tons of Recording Capacity!!! 2 TB Drives Rock My World!!!


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## Sim-X

I'm planning to do mine when I get a HR24. Just did a 2TB EVDS on my HR22 - The first time was a nightmare for me, I broke a plastic thing inside and disconnected things I didn't have to. My 1st time doing an internal upgrade was using a 1.5TB EARS drive which blew. So I ended up getting a EVDS drive instead and re-did the entire procedure again and it went awesome the 2nd time around. Is the HR24 really that much harder than a 22?

I know the HR24's are not out everywhere yet but where would I be able to buy one that is mine?

There is a pretty nice guide for the HR boxes, why is this one so much harder? I def don't recommend everyone doing it but if you have done an older HR I would think one would be able to handle it wouldn't they?


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## Stuart Sweet

Then let's be honest here. There is one person in this thread who has actually personally opened an HR24 (unless my friend Doug has, and if he has, it's with DIRECTV's blessing) and that one person is telling you that it is most definitely not a piece of cake and should not be attempted. 

I have no doubt that there is a specific tool for opening these bad boys up, sort of like the tool they use to remove those anti-theft tags in stores. I'm sure that it makes things MUUUUUUCH easier. 

But again, let's be completely clear. I have, with DIRECTV's permission, opened an HR24 (and an H24.) I did so with a combination of tools and parts that anyone could get at Home Depot, and I did so without any instructions. I found it to be a very daunting task.


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## Sim-X

Stuart Sweet said:


> Then let's be honest here. There is one person in this thread who has actually personally opened an HR24 (unless my friend Doug has, and if he has, it's with DIRECTV's blessing) and that one person is telling you that it is most definitely not a piece of cake and should not be attempted.
> 
> I have no doubt that there is a specific tool for opening these bad boys up, sort of like the tool they use to remove those anti-theft tags in stores. I'm sure that it makes things MUUUUUUCH easier.
> 
> But again, let's be completely clear. I have, with DIRECTV's permission, opened an HR24 (and an H24.) I did so with a combination of tools and parts that anyone could get at Home Depot, and I did so without any instructions. I found it to be a very daunting task.


Wow - I kinda wanna try now - except I don't fricken have one

If they gave you permission why wouldn't they give you the opening tool or at least some instructions?

I went back and looked at the 1st look, didn't see 2 many screws - is it just a lot of plastic tabs then? Prob with that things like that can break easy.


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## Richierich

Sim-X said:


> I'm planning to do mine when I get a HR24. Just did a 2TB EVDS on my HR22 - The first time was a nightmare for me, I broke a plastic thing inside and disconnected things I didn't have to. My 1st time doing an internal upgrade was using a 1.5TB EARS drive which blew. So I ended up getting a EVDS drive instead and re-did the entire procedure again and it went awesome the 2nd time around. Is the HR24 really that much harder than a 22?
> 
> I know the HR24's are not out everywhere yet but where would I be able to buy one that is mine?
> 
> There is a pretty nice guide for the HR boxes, why is this one so much harder? I def don't recommend everyone doing it but if you have done an older HR I would think one would be able to handle it wouldn't they?


Yes. It is just knowing how to undo the 3 clips on each side of the top, one at at time while keeping the lid held upwards so the clip doesn't slip back into the slot. Then do the other side and slide off the top of the case. Then you just have to take out the hard drive if you have ever done that in a PC it is pretty much straight forward.


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## Stuart Sweet

Sim-X said:


> I know the HR24's are not out everywhere yet but where would I be able to buy one that is mine?


As far as I know they are not available for sale through any retailer. A private sale would be your only option and that would still be hard to come by.



> There is a pretty nice guide for the HR boxes, why is this one so much harder? I def don't recommend everyone doing it but if you have done an older HR I would think one would be able to handle it wouldn't they?


This is a completely different design and is most definitely designed to be more tamper-resistant. I have opened up several owned DVRs with DIRECTV's explicit permission, and you may look at the pictures in several of our first looks.

Getting to the drive in an HR21, HR22, or HR23 was relatively easy and required only a few tools you could get at any Home Depot. On the other hand, the case of the 24 series is completely different. It is not straightforward at all.

*I'm not trying to toot my own horn here.* Quite the opposite. I've done drive swaps in computers for 25 years. I've swapped drives in my own dvrs, and I've helped other people with it. *But I would not attempt a drive swap in an HR24.* The juice isn't worth the squeeze.


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## Sim-X

richierich said:


> Yes. It is just knowing how to undo the 4 clips on each side of the top, one at at time while keeping the lid held upwards so the clip doesn't slip back into the slot. Then do the other side and slide off the top of the case.


I don't have one yet, but will be careful when doing mine. I'm guessing a lot of people are gonna wanna do an internal upgrade. Look how popular the internal upgrade thread is, just because it's not super easy doesn't mean it shouldn't be attempted. I think it's good to have some warnings and disclaimers but I love how well my new EVDS drive is working and no extra box next to the dvr. Along with some other benefits of course! I don't think internal upgrade is for everybody but a lot of people are still going to want to do it.



Stuart Sweet said:


> As far as I know they are not available for sale through any retailer. A private sale would be your only option and that would still be hard to come by.
> 
> This is a completely different design and is most definitely designed to be more tamper-resistant. I have opened up several owned DVRs with DIRECTV's explicit permission, and you may look at the pictures in several of our first looks.
> 
> Getting to the drive in an HR21, HR22, or HR23 was relatively easy and required only a few tools you could get at any Home Depot. On the other hand, the case of the 24 series is completely different. It is not straightforward at all.
> 
> *I'm not trying to toot my own horn here.* Quite the opposite. I've done drive swaps in computers for 25 years. I've swapped drives in my own dvrs, and I've helped other people with it. *But I would not attempt a drive swap in an HR24.* The juice isn't worth the squeeze.


Hopefully we see a photo tutorial thread once the box becomes more widespread. I know I got pretty frustrated when I first cracked open my HR22. Makes sense they would make them more tamper proof, a lot of projects is having the right tools. I would have been lost with out my security torx bit.


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## Stuart Sweet

richierich said:


> Yes. It is just knowing how to undo the 4 clips on each side of the top, one at at time while keeping the lid held upwards so the clip doesn't slip back into the slot. Then do the other side and slide off the top of the case.


I disagree with this statement.


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## Stuart Sweet

Sim-X said:


> Hopefully we see a photo tutorial thread once the box becomes more widespread. I know I got pretty frustrated when I first cracked open my HR22. Makes sense they would make them more tamper proof, a lot of projects is having the right tools. I would have been lost with out my security torx bit.


I'm not sure you'll see such a tutorial here for some time, if ever.


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## Richierich

I corrected my post because I believe there are 2 clips on each side of the lid for a total of 6 clips and I will include pictures tomorrow of the lid turned upside down to show the clips.

Stuart has asked me not to provide pictures of my HR24 so I will not do so publicly in this forum. 

However, if you want to ask me questions, please feel free to PM me. 

However, I Do Not Advocate helping anyone who is going to Violate Directv Policy or Warranty Agreements. So if you Own Your Own HR24 I will assist you as far as pictures or information as long as you act responsibly and realize you are doing this at your Own Risk even though you Own Your Own HR24.


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## matt

I love the idea of an internal drive but the HR24s look so sweet it would be worth the few extra $ for an external housing not to crack or break the HR24 housing to me after I thought about it.


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## thekochs

Stuart Sweet said:


> I'm not sure you'll see such a tutorial here for some time, if ever.


Stuart, I can appreciate DirecTV does not want this done and in fact they want the main stream folks to leave well enough alone but as I'm reminded over and over in this Forum...the 1%-ers live here...not the main stream. Are you saying DBSTalk would not allow a thread or post showing this ? Obviously, disclaimers would have to be on the top that you violate warranty, etc. but don't see why the HR24 would be any different showing folks so motivated (personally I'm not since don't use my DVR for archiving) to attempt than previous HRxx.

For those reading the How-To Thread in Info/Resources: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=167440


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## TomCat

Stuart Sweet said:


> I'm not sure you'll see such a tutorial here for some time, if ever.


Well whoever does it, be sure to video it and post a link to the video.


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## Sim-X

thekochs said:


> Stuart, I can appreciate DirecTV does not want this done and in fact they want the main stream folks to leave well enough alone but as I'm reminded over and over in this Forum...the 1%-ers live here...not the main stream. Are you saying DBSTalk would not allow a thread or post showing this ? Obviously, disclaimers would have to be on the top that you violate warranty, etc. but don't see why the HR24 would be any different showing folks so motivated (personally I'm not since don't use my DVR for archiving) to attempt than previous HRxx.
> 
> For those reading the How-To Thread in Info/Resources: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=167440


agree - guess I won't know for sure until I actually get one and look at it


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## Richierich

thekochs said:


> Stuart, I can appreciate DirecTV does not want this done and in fact they want the main stream folks to leave well enough alone but as I'm reminded over and over in this Forum...the 1%-ers live here...not the main stream. Are you saying DBSTalk would not allow a thread or post showing this ? Obviously, disclaimers would have to be on the top that you violate warranty, etc. but don't see why the HR24 would be any different showing folks so motivated (personally I'm not since don't use my DVR for archiving) to attempt than previous HRxx.
> 
> For those reading the How-To Thread in Info/Resources: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=167440


+1.


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## sxrxrnr1

I've run a Seagate Free Agent 750 gig with my HR 21 for a couple of years ok. Recently I noticed that it had reverted to the internal drive and I am seeing stuff that I recorded long ago.

I powered down both the DVR and the Free Agent several times. First I power up Free Agent and then DVR. Still continuously reverts to internal drive only.

Drive seems to power up and run ok with no extra noises.

Has it failed. Do cables ever fail. Perhaps the DVR Esata hardware or firmware is failing.

Any ideas?

Also I've been looking at external boxes for my other D* DVR's. I have 3 other D* units, plus 5 Tivos. Tivo's I've upgraded internal drives and all has been well for several years. Was wondering if this external box will serve me as a shelter for external sata 1 gig drives. Thermaltake N0012USU Max 4. Any one using them. Their reviews seem quite good on Amazon


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## P Smith

Get another *eSATA *cable for final check.


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## Rich

Stuart Sweet said:


> OK, I'm probably the only person who will freely admit that he's tried this.
> 
> Why? because I took the pictures in the first look and I had DIRECTV's permission. So I have a bit of advice for you: *don't do it.*
> 
> I'm not going to give you detailed instructions, but I'm going to tell you that it took every flathead screwdriver I had, plus plastic putty knives and folded up pieces of paper. That was just to get the case off. I also removed a bunch of screws that I didn't need to, apparently.
> 
> It took me close to an hour to do all this and I darn near broke the front panel several times.
> Then I got the thing open and you'll find two things: The drive is secured to the sled with wire and the SATA cable is so short it sits flush against the drive. Look at the pictures in the first look.
> 
> It was hard to be sure but the sled might also be soldered in.
> 
> As far as 2TB is concerned, I am not 100% sure you can even go up that high with an HR24. I know there are some other members of the HR2x family that won't run a 2TB internal.
> 
> My suggestion to you, sir... is eSATA.


And there goes the lust my heart was filled with. No more eSATAs for me.

Thanx for the tip. Saved me a lot of trouble. Great post!

Rich


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## Sim-X

So has anyone posted pictures/guide about doing an hr24 internal upgrade? I have one coming shortly and was thinking about maybe posting pictures if someone hasn't done so already.


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## hdtvfan0001

Sim-X said:


> So has anyone posted pictures/guide about doing an hr24 internal upgrade? I have one coming shortly and was thinking about maybe posting pictures if someone hasn't done so already.


In general...that tends to be frowned upon, especially since most users have leased units that should not be tampered with, per the subscriber agreement.

The "First Look" reports for the HR24-500 and HR24-100 models do show internal photos taken by the authors, as authorized by DirecTV.

Here are the post links, which contain PDF documents you can view:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=2361819&postcount=4

http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=2518376&postcount=1

Note: Often, folks *think* they are "buying" a unit from 3rd party vendors...when in fact...they are "leased" instead. Always check DirecTV first to see what their records indicate. With leased units - you break it, you buy it. :eek2:

If someone truly has an *owned* unit (which is very rare), they can pretty much do whatever they want to it. The risk of breaking something (the case, the internal components) is very high if you do not *really* know what you are doing.

P.S.....the housing cases on the HR24-500 and HR24-100 are virtually identical, but not exactly the same in terms of how they "mount" to the main frame of the DVR itself...more opportunity for damage without intimate experience.


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## CCarncross

Sim-X said:


> So has anyone posted pictures/guide about doing an hr24 internal upgrade? I have one coming shortly and was thinking about maybe posting pictures if someone hasn't done so already.


Since the one you've got coming appears to be a lease, I'd recommend going the eSATA route anyway.


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## hdtvfan0001

CCarncross said:


> Since the one you've got coming appears to be a lease, I'd recommend going the eSATA route anyway.


Agreed.


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## anleva

Sim-X said:


> So has anyone posted pictures/guide about doing an hr24 internal upgrade? I have one coming shortly and was thinking about maybe posting pictures if someone hasn't done so already.


I did post some pictures in another thread doing it on my OWNED HR24.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=2469713&postcount=31


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## anleva

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Those photos don't seem to address the mounting screw differences in addition to the clips...
> 
> Nor the drive mounts inside which are also different...like I said...the -500 and -100 models *differ*... as you likely know...one slight wrong move...and those clips (or case) are toast as well.
> 
> I've seen 3 HR24's opened, and the expert doing it looked like he was performing delicate surgery in the process - and he knew what he was doing.


Mine was an HR24-500. There was no screw removal required nor mounting screws for taking the cover off. Once you figured out the clip system and how to trip them it was very easy to take the cover off. However without pictures the first time, just a verbal description, it was tough to figure out exactly where they were and how to trip them.

Once inside you do need to remove screws to access the hard drive and hard drive sled and undo the clips for the ribbon cables.


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## hdtvfan0001

anleva said:


> I did post some pictures in another thread doing it on my *OWNED HR24*.
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=2469713&postcount=31


Those photos don't seem to address the mounting screw differences in addition to the clips...the photo angle is a bit tough....but you seem to show the -100.

LIkewise... the drive mounts inside are not alike...like I said...the -500 and -100 models *differ*... as you likely know...one slight wrong move...and those clips (or case) are toast as well.

I've seen 3 HR24's opened, and the expert doing it looked like he was performing delicate surgery in the process - and *he* knew what he was doing.


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## jgriffin104

I've put three 2tb drives in my HR24's. I also have 2 set up with RAID 1 2tb cases.
I use 4 table knives and two thumbs to access the case.
I archive my war movies to the two RAID units. I was tired of losing hard drives and all the contents. I also copied the original hard drives to the new drives including the RAID cases. I used the Gparted cd and the graceful power down on all drives. I did copy the two raid case drives one right after the other. Just as soon as the one showed sucess, I shut the PC down changed drives and rebooted Gparted again and did the second drive.


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## matt

I opened my owned HR24 just to see how hard it was. I wasn't planning on it when I got it but I got a wild hare looking at it and I thought "I can do it, it doesn't look _that_ hard". It was super easy IMHO. I used common household tools. I actually think it was easier than the older ones because I always had to fight with the cover to get it back on...

EDIT: For the reasons posted above, I will not share my techniques on this one


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## hdtvfan0001

matt1124 said:


> I opened my owned HR24 just to see how hard it was. I wasn't planning on it when I got it but I got a wild hare looking at it and I thought "I can do it, it doesn't look _that_ hard". It was super easy IMHO. I used common household tools. *I actually think it was easier than the older ones because I always had to fight with the cover to get it back on...*
> 
> EDIT: For the reasons posted above, I will not share my techniques on this one


In terms of the physical work...yes...in some ways....it is "easier". The challenge is making sure something doesn't get broken along the way, especially if someone is doing this for the first time. Stuart eluded to this some time ago.

It can be done, I've seen a drive swapped our in more than one *owned* HR24 in less than 15 minutes each. That said....there is absolutely risk in doing it.


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## matt

Yeah, mentally it was harder, I didn't want to break something I had just shelled out so little money for...


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## RobertE

matt1124 said:


> Yeah, mentally it was harder, I didn't want to break something I had just shelled out so little money for...


I will say this. It is MUCH easier for DirecTv to identify Hx24s that were broken while being opened up compared to prior models. I'll leave it at that.


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## Richierich

RobertE said:


> I will say this. It is MUCH easier for DirecTv to identify Hx24s that were broken while being opened up compared to prior models. I'll leave it at that.


I don't think Directv cares as I have never heard of anyone being reprimanded or written up as a Violator of the TOS and I'll just Leave it at that!!! 

It's a Piece Of Cake for anyone with a little Intelligence and Patience to look at what they are doing carefully before they proceed and you do not even need butter knives if you just keep pressure upwards on the case lid so it doesn't come back down into the groove that holds it in place initially. It took less than a minute to take the lid off once I proceeded.


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## hdtvfan0001

matt1124 said:


> Yeah, mentally it was harder, *I didn't want to break something I had just shelled out so little money for*...





RobertE said:


> I will say this. *It is MUCH easier for DirecTv to identify Hx24s that were broken while being opened up compared to prior models*. I'll leave it at that.


Yup.

For most, it's simply not worth the stress and potential headaches. Add on a layer that most folks lease their HR24's and don't own them....and even thinking of doing this leaves a very, very short list of candidates.

Compare that to a plug and play eSata setup...and the choice seems pretty obvious.


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## Scott Kocourek

Are internal drive changes and external drives all that important now that we have MRV? I have to admit that I tend to delete things right after watching them except for a few kids movies and shows so most things are fairly recent, but I do record entire series before watching them. Before I spent the money I'd probably just but another DVR and then there is more storage and more tuners.


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## Rich

scottandregan said:


> Are internal drive changes and external drives all that important now that we have MRV? I have to admit that I tend to delete things right after watching them except for a few kids movies and shows so most things are fairly recent, but I do record entire series before watching them. Before I spent the money I'd probably just but another DVR and then there is more storage and more tuners.


I think so. For us, anyway. My wife isn't home that much, she works a lot of hours and she travels all over the world for the corporation she works for and we usually end up watching whole series during the summer and into the next season. Without added capacity, we couldn't do this. And you can't beat the added capacity for backing up programs. I've just found another eSATA that is probably shot and I've got all the programs on it backed up on other HRs.

I keep buying owned HRs and putting large internals in them because that method seems to work a whole lot better than eSATAs.

Rich


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## Richierich

I Own my DVRs so the First Thing I do when I acquire one is to put a 2 TB Hard Drive in it and be done with it. I didn't find anything that would break unless you force it open by not looking at what you are doing and seeing how it works to hold the lid on.

Very Easy and Very Nice to have a 2 TB Drive sitting in it doing it's thing.

Just Love having the storage and if Directv gave us sufficient storage then we wouldn't have to open up the box and do it ourselves.


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## sigma1914

richierich said:


> I don't think Directv cares as I have never heard of anyone being reprimanded or written up as a Violator of the TOS and I'll just Leave it at that!!!
> 
> It's a Piece Of Cake for anyone with a little Intelligence and Patience to look at what they are doing carefully before they proceed and you do not even need butter knives if you just keep pressure upwards on the case lid so it doesn't come back down into the groove that holds it in place initially. It took less than a minute to take the lid off once I proceeded.


I thought someone who's very good with HRs swapped drives for you?


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## Rich

sigma1914 said:


> I thought someone who's very good with HRs swapped drives for you?


Perhaps he uses someone such as the the very good electrician that does my electrical work.

Rich


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## Richierich

sigma1914 said:


> I thought someone who's very good with HRs swapped drives for you?


Well, he did the First One and I aided him but then I did the rest of them after seeing how Simple an Operation it turned out to be!!!


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## matt

richierich said:


> if Directv gave us sufficient storage then we wouldn't have to open up the box and do it ourselves.


+20 million


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## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> .....if Directv gave us sufficient storage then we wouldn't have to open up the box and do it ourselves.


Of course that word "sufficient" is in the eyes of the beholder... :lol:

More important...if there was a viable way to archive content folks want to offload and store....then real-time drives would require less capacity.

To me....archiving content is the biggest gap in all DVRs today.I understand all of the security and copy protection arguments, but those can be addressed with a household only code where the content can be restricted - as oppossed to how it all works today.


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## Rich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Of course that word "sufficient" is in the eyes of the beholder... :lol:
> 
> More important...if there was a viable way to archive content folks want to offload and store....then real-time drives would require less capacity.
> 
> To me....archiving content is the biggest gap in all DVRs today.I understand all of the security and copy protection arguments, but those can be addressed with a household only code where the content can be restricted - as oppossed to how it all works today.


NetFlix=Archiving.

Rich


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## Scott Kocourek

rich584 said:


> I think so. For us, anyway. My wife isn't home that much, she works a lot of hours and she travels all over the world for the corporation she works for and we usually end up watching whole series during the summer and into the next season. Without added capacity, we couldn't do this. And you can't beat the added capacity for backing up programs. I've just found another eSATA that is probably shot and I've got all the programs on it backed up on other HRs.
> 
> I keep buying owned HRs and putting large internals in them because that method seems to work a whole lot better than eSATAs.
> 
> Rich


Ok that makes sense. I guess my life is much simpler than a lot of other folks, I really only need to go away for long periods of time for pleasure. Maybe a case of tunnel vision. 

For the backup issue, more often than not I am around when a recording is being made, so if I were to miss it due to bad weather, I know to look for it in other places.


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## texasmoose

I'm taking a WD15EADS out of my desktop, as it's too big for what I need, and putting to better use and installing it in my *owned *HR24-100. Can I put it in as is? or do i need to erase everything on it & reformat it? If I reformat it, is it just plain Fat 32 and anything else sector wise? Or just do nothing and plop it into the HR24 & it will format it for me? Thanks.


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## hdtvfan0001

rich584 said:


> NetFlix=Archiving.
> 
> Rich


Not even close.


texasmoose said:


> I'm taking a WD15EADS out of my desktop, as it's too big for what I need, and putting to better use and installing it in my *owned *HR24-100. Can I put it in as is? or do i need to erase everything on it & reformat it? If I reformat it, is it just plain Fat 32 and anything else sector wise? Or just do nothing and plop it into the HR24 & it will format it for me? Thanks.


It will reformat upon bootup of the HR24.


----------



## Richierich

It will Automatically Reformat upon Booting Up the HR24.


----------



## P Smith

Just do nothing - it will format it as EXT3 with XFS without any problem.


----------



## texasmoose

i got the case off & laid my WD15EADS on top of existing drive, carefully placing it on not to short anything out. And it synced up no problem. Now to remove existing drive, do i simply take out the 2 phillips head screws & out pops current drive? or do i need to get my neighbor's torq screwdriver & remove the 4 or 5 screws and then proceed to pull out drive enclosure and then swap out drives? if it's the latter, what size torq screwdriver do i need?


----------



## hdtvfan0001

texasmoose said:


> i got the case off & laid my WD15EADS on top of existing drive, carefully placing it on not to short anything out. And it synced up no problem. Now to remove existing drive, do i simply take out the 2 phillips head screws & out pops current drive? or do i need to get my neighbor's torq screwdriver & remove the 4 or 5 screws and then proceed to pull out drive enclosure and then swap out drives? if it's the latter, what size torq screwdriver do i need?


The answer to that questoin varies depending on which HR24 model you are talking about...the -100, the -200, or the -500. The drives are mounted differently in each of those units, as seen in the First Look, Second Look, and Third Look articles with photos on the HR24 series.


----------



## texasmoose

all done thanks for the help.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

anleva said:


> Mine was an HR24-500. *There was no screw removal required nor mounting screws for taking the cover off*. Once you figured out the clip system and how to trip them it was very easy to take the cover off. However without pictures the first time, just a verbal description, it was tough to figure out exactly where they were and how to trip them.
> 
> Once inside you do need to remove screws to access the hard drive and hard drive sled and undo the clips for the ribbon cables.


*CORRECTED POST*: Only the HR24-100 had 2 screws holding on the case underneath. The 4 HR24-500 I saw units had none.


----------



## anleva

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Interesting...the other 4 HR24-500 units I saw firsthand all had 2 screws holding on the case underneath. The -100 units had none.


None on mine. Just needed to trip the clips to get the cover off my HR24-500


----------



## hdtvfan0001

anleva said:


> None on mine. Just needed to trip the clips to get the cover off my HR24-500


OK....


----------



## Richierich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Interesting...the other 4 HR24-500 units I saw firsthand all had 2 screws holding on the case underneath. The -100 units had none.


I don't remember having to Unscrew any screws either. Just had to pop the Retainer Clips and keep pressure upwards so the Clips wouldn't Reseat in the groove that held them.

Can't Imagine this Process taking over an hour as was reported by one member of this Forum. :lol:


----------



## matt

It doesn't take even 5 minutes to open it once you understand the idea of how it clips shut.  I still say it is easier than an older ones because the cover just snaps back in place with no fighting.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

matt1124 said:


> It doesn't take even 5 minutes to open it once you understand the idea of how it clips shut.  I still say it is easier than an older ones because the cover just snaps back in place with no fighting.


Agreed...the HDD swap time depends on which HR24 model...they are all mounted differently....but perhaps only 10 more minutes to do it correctly.


richierich said:


> *I don't remember having to Unscrew any screws either.* Just had to pop the Retainer Clips and keep pressure upwards so it the Clips wouldn't Reseat in the groove that held them.


Yup...you're right...got them backwards. Now that I've seen all 3 HR24's close up...

The -100 has 2 bottom screws, the -500 has none. All share the same basic case and clip mounts. If one knows just how to carefully address the clips...its a 15 minute job to swap out the drive, if not....there's the risk of damaging the case on the way to the HDD swap, and the care needed for those small wires and connectors. Again - since very few folks have owned units - it is not advised whatsoever on leased units.

*Corrected* the original post with the reverse listed.


----------



## anleva

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Agreed...the HDD swap time depends on which HR24 model...they are all mounted differently....but perhaps only 10 more minutes to do it correctly.
> 
> Yup...you're right...got them backwards. Now that I've seen all 3 HR24's close up...
> 
> The -100 has 2 bottom screws, the -500 has none. All share the same basic case and clip mounts. If one knows just how to carefully address the clips...its a 15 minute job to swap out the drive, if not....there's the risk of damaging the case on the way to the HDD swap, and the care needed for those small wires and connectors. Again - since very few folks have owned units - it is not advised whatsoever on leased units.
> 
> *Corrected* the original post with the reverse listed.


OK....


----------



## rlinsurf

Can someone post a video of the upgrade procedure, or maybe just a step by step with pictures? I'm considering whether to take this on myself or not.


----------



## Richierich

rlinsurf said:


> Can someone post a video of the upgrade procedure, or maybe just a step by step with pictures? I'm considering whether to take this on myself or not.


Sorry but that ain't gonna happen because the Powers That Be will Not Allow it. But it is very easy and if you do a Search you will find the instructions as I have posted them many many times.


----------



## CBMC

I have a HR24-200 and went ahead and did the upgrade. Problem is that the Seagate Pipeline hd.2 drive in the HR24-200 is smaller than a standard 3.5 sata drive. (thinner) If you look at the pictures (HR Series Third Look thread), you will see the hd cage. The screw holes in the hard drive are obviously in the same location as a standard 3.5 drive, but the problem comes in with the depth. The drive is too deep to allow it to line up with the cage holes. If you turn the drive upside down you can get it to line up, but then the drive sticks out to much and hits the main board. The only way to get the drive to fit, at least that I could figure, is to drill a couple of holes in the cage(either under, for bottom drive mounting holes, or on the side (above holes that are already there) for side mounting hd holes). What I did was drill out holes right above the side cage mounting holes (used 2 of the for screws). There was just enough room above the mounting holes to allow for the depth. Not hard, nor really dangerous, since if you mess up the screw holes there is a pretty good chance that you can still get the hard drive mounted onto the bracket somehow. I couldn't find any info on anyone updating the HR24-200 and was wondering if anyone else has come across this problem? What was your solution? 

Just giving anyone who was thinking about doing this the heads up.


----------



## matt

One way to avoid that Seagate problem is to use *quality* parts, like Western Digital.


----------



## CBMC

matt1124 said:


> One way to avoid that Seagate problem is to use *quality* parts, like Western Digital.


I am not sure if you were talking to me or someone else? If me, then I am not sure what you mean? I replaced the seagate that was in my HR24-200 with a Western Digital. The drive was not just swappable. I had to make a mod to the cage in HR24 to allow the larger WD drive to fit in the spot were the Seagate Pipeline originally was. The HR24-200 hd cage seems to only accommodate the smaller footprint of the Seagate Pipeline drive. (or similar sized drives) Anyone else notice this? Assuming by the threads in this post neither the HR24-100, nor the HR24-500 have the same problem.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

To reiterate several key points on this topic:

As always....leased units should not be touched/opened for internal component changes...as it voids the warranty and folks could very well be charged hundreds of dollars for that violation.

This is not as simple a task as some would make it appear, but also not overwhelming or near-impossible either. It requires some knowledge, care, and the correct tools.

That said - its important to note that the multiple models of the HR series (HR24-100, -200-, and -500 actually may contain different manufacturer hard drives within them. Seagate and WD have both been seen in the field.

Not all HDD replacement is "plug and play", as some have already stated through their experiences where potential replacement drives simply were not physically sized the same.


----------



## CBMC

hdtvfan0001 said:


> To reiterate several key points on this topic:
> 
> As always....leased units should not be touched/opened for internal component changes...as it voids the warranty and folks could very well be charged hundreds of dollars for that violation.
> 
> This is not as simple a task as some would make it appear, but also not overwhelming or near-impossible either. It requires some knowledge, care, and the correct tools.
> 
> That said - its important to note that the multiple models of the HR series (HR24-100, -200-, and -500 actually may contain different manufacturer hard drives within them. Seagate and WD have both been seen in the field.
> 
> Not all HDD replacement is "plug and play", as some have already stated through their experiences where potential replacement drives simply were not physically sized the same.


Yeah, and that was what I was pointing out. Getting the unit apart was really pretty easy. You don't have to force, and I would suggest using some old credit card to release the clips. But once I got it open and took the drive out of the cage I sat there for an hour trying to figure out a way to arrange the drive to fit. Finally, the only option left was to modify the cage (basically add holes). Like I said, I am just pointing this out for owners of the HR24-200, because from what I was reading on the HR24's, the HR24 would fit a regular 3.5 drive. Once I opened the box and saw the drive was smaller I searched around for about 20 minutes and could find no information on the drive being smaller.(might very well be out there, I just couldn't find it)

So to the HR24-200 owners, if you don't have a low profile drive replacement, be prepared to drill some holes in the hd cage.


----------



## Rich

CBMC said:


> Yeah, and that was what I was pointing out. Getting the unit apart was really pretty easy. You don't have to force, and I would suggest using some old credit card to release the clips. But once I got it open and took the drive out of the cage I sat there for an hour trying to figure out a way to arrange the drive to fit. Finally, the only option left was to modify the cage (basically add holes). Like I said, I am just pointing this out for owners of the HR24-200, because from what I was reading on the HR24's, the HR24 would fit a regular 3.5 drive. Once I opened the box and saw the drive was smaller I searched around for about 20 minutes and could find no information on the drive being smaller.(might very well be out there, I just couldn't find it)
> 
> So to the HR24-200 owners, if you don't have a low profile drive replacement, be prepared to drill some holes in the hd cage.


Makes me wonder how the specs for ALL the 24s that were sent to the manufacturers could possibly be the same. Send the identical specs to a bunch of manufacturers and you should get identical devices or items. This is like Budweiser sending out identical specs to different glass manufacturers (which they do) and getting back different bottles. That would be cause for Bud to immediately drop the glass house as a supplier.

Be nice for someone with knowledge of the specs sent out to comment on this.

Rich


----------



## rlinsurf

CBMC said:


> Yeah, and that was what I was pointing out. Getting the unit apart was really pretty easy. You don't have to force, and I would suggest using some old credit card to release the clips.


Ok, this is what I did. With two clips facing away from me, I pulled back on the first clip pulling it towards me (away from the forward panel. I then placed a butter knife between the clip and the front panel frame. I then repeated this with the second, so both clips are now loose from the assembly. I tried lifting up anywhere that I could get a screwdriver in place, but nothing budged. In fact it looked like I was about to bend the metal. I checked, and both clips were still free. What am I doing wrong?

BTW, I guess I am missing something. Where would you put a credit card?


----------



## Rich

CBMC said:


> I am not sure if you were talking to me or someone else? If me, then I am not sure what you mean? I replaced the seagate that was in my HR24-200 with a Western Digital. The drive was not just swappable. I had to make a mod to the cage in HR24 to allow the larger WD drive to fit in the spot were the Seagate Pipeline originally was. The HR24-200 hd cage seems to only accommodate the smaller footprint of the Seagate Pipeline drive. (or similar sized drives) Anyone else notice this? Assuming by the threads in this post neither the HR24-100, nor the HR24-500 have the same problem.


The Seagate and WD have identical locations for the mounting screws. If you got a Seagate out, the WD should have just gone right in. Do you still have the Seagate? Would you post the model number, please? I've got an owned 24-200 and I'm sure the time will come that I want to stick it's 2TB EVDS in it. Now it's in a docking station. I'm really curious about what you found.

Rich


----------



## CBMC

rich584 said:


> The Seagate and WD have identical locations \]for the mounting screws. If you got a Seagate out, the WD should have just gone right in. Do you still have the Seagate? Would you post the model number, please? I've got an owned 24-200 and I'm sure the time will come that I want to stick it's 2TB EVDS in it. Now it's in a docking station. I'm really curious about what you found.
> 
> Rich


You are correct, they both have the same mounting holes but there width is different. The Seagate is thinner drive. The hd cage inside the HR24-200 is thin, so while the thinner seagate drive drops all the way down in the cage (allowing screws to line up), a normal drive doesn't go far enough down in the cage to allow the screws to line up. I tried to turn the drive upside down so that the holes would line up, but then the drive was sticking to far out of the cage, thus hitting the main board. I didn't take any pictures and it is kind of hard to describe what I am talking about. If you look at the thread here, look at the picture with the mainboard and drive cage, you can see that if the drive is too thick it will hit against the top of the cage not allowing the mounting screws to line up. That being said, I was able to drill out holes below the previous holes on the mounting cage (there was barely enough room to do this, and I mean barely), thus allowing the hard drive to fit in the cage and screw in. The other option might have been to use the top screws on the hard drive and drill holes through the top of the cage (around where the acoustic foam is on the 24-200).

The Seagate model in the HR24-200 was a Pipeline hd.2 500 GB drive. The model I replaced it with was a WD15EADS. (1.5TB)



rlinsurf said:


> Ok, this is what I did. With two clips facing away from me, I pulled back on the first clip pulling it towards me (away from the forward panel. I then placed a butter knife between the clip and the front panel frame. I then repeated this with the second, so both clips are now loose from the assembly. I tried lifting up anywhere that I could get a screwdriver in place, but nothing budged. In fact it looked like I was about to bend the metal. I checked, and both clips were still free. What am I doing wrong?


I used the credit cards to push in the side latches. Just pulled apart the sides enough to get a credit card in then shoved a credit card down where the latches where. The credit card was used for the side latches. For the front latches I used a small flat head and pushed them back. The front latches you can see clearly through the bottom grate, the side ones are harder to see, but shoving a credit card down there a. seemed to push the latches back, and b. reduced the chances of scratching like a butter knife could.


----------



## P Smith

CBMC,
Perhaps using a word "tall" instead of "width" will help better.

Also pictures or drawings could cut the ambiguity.


----------



## matt

I wonder if fire and brimstone would rein down from D* is someone posted a youtube video on how to open an HR24?


----------



## P Smith

For sure URL to it wouldn't work here.


----------



## CBMC

P Smith said:


> CBMC,
> Perhaps using a word "tall" instead of "width" will help better.
> 
> Also pictures or drawings could cut the ambiguity.


I would have taken pictures, but forgot. But like I said, if you look at the picture of the box open that is online and figure that the drive fits pretty tight in the cage (which it does) you can understand what I mean by the height not working (screw holes lining up). I can't draw, but I will give you an example. Take a long stick put it in a 2 liter bottle, put a mark right where the stick exits the mouth of the bottle, now take the stick and put it in the can (in the same direction) and try to get the mark to line up with the top of the can. You can't because the can is shorter and the stick is hitting the bottom. If I am still not clear, then let me know. Not trying to be ambiguous, just trying to explain through words. (If not very clearly  )


----------



## adam1115

I don't get what the objection is to posting pictures of how to open a piece of equipment you own.... Weird.


----------



## matt

adam1115 said:


> I don't get what the objection is to posting pictures of how to open a piece of equipment you own.... Weird.


Because maybe 1 out of 1000 of them are owned and the rest are property of D*.


----------



## am7crew

CBMC said:


> You are correct, they both have the same mounting holes but there width is different. The Seagate is thinner drive. The hd cage inside the HR24-200 is thin, so while the thinner seagate drive drops all the way down in the cage (allowing screws to line up), a normal drive doesn't go far enough down in the cage to allow the screws to line up. I tried to turn the drive upside down so that the holes would line up, but then the drive was sticking to far out of the cage, thus hitting the main board. I didn't take any pictures and it is kind of hard to describe what I am talking about. If you look at the thread here, look at the picture with the mainboard and drive cage, you can see that if the drive is too thick it will hit against the top of the cage not allowing the mounting screws to line up. That being said, I was able to drill out holes below the previous holes on the mounting cage (there was barely enough room to do this, and I mean barely), thus allowing the hard drive to fit in the cage and screw in. The other option might have been to use the top screws on the hard drive and drill holes through the top of the cage (around where the acoustic foam is on the 24-200).
> 
> The Seagate model in the HR24-200 was a Pipeline hd.2 500 GB drive. The model I replaced it with was a WD15EADS. (1.5TB)
> 
> I used the credit cards to push in the side latches. Just pulled apart the sides enough to get a credit card in then shoved a credit card down where the latches where. The credit card was used for the side latches. For the front latches I used a small flat head and pushed them back. The front latches you can see clearly through the bottom grate, the side ones are harder to see, but shoving a credit card down there a. seemed to push the latches back, and b. reduced the chances of scratching like a butter knife could.


The thin-ness of the drive doesnt matter mine came with a stock thin seagate HD pipeline2. I replaced it with a standard size samsung 2TB and my HR24 had two screws to mount the drive, however since it had the thinner drive it also had a sponge in the HD casing to prevent shock movement, simply removed the sponge inserted the new drive (standard size) screwed in the screws put the case back on and was a done deal.


----------



## Rich

am7crew said:


> The thin-ness of the drive doesnt matter mine came with a stock thin seagate HD pipeline2. I replaced it with a standard size samsung 2TB and my HR24 had two screws to mount the drive, however since it had the thinner drive it also had a sponge in the HD casing to prevent shock movement, simply removed the sponge inserted the new drive (standard size) screwed in the screws put the case back on and was a done deal.


Was it a 24-200?

Rich


----------



## rlinsurf

Where are the side latches? Can you PM me a picture?


----------



## anleva

Here are the pictures I took of the location of the clips for an HR24-500. All 6 circled in red. For the side clips you use something thin to trip the clips from the bottom. For the two clips on the bottom (near the front) you can trip them with a flathead screwdriver. Do that and the case comes off fairly easily. Not sure if this is the same for other types of HR24's.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=2469713&postcount=31


----------



## hdtvfan0001

matt1124 said:


> Because maybe 1 out of 1000 of them are owned and the rest are property of D*.


Yup.

No own...no tamper.


----------



## adam1115

matt1124 said:


> Because maybe 1 out of 1000 of them are owned and the rest are property of D*.


What's wrong with talking about something that may interest 1 out of 1,000 people?


----------



## CBMC

am7crew said:


> The thin-ness of the drive doesnt matter mine came with a stock thin seagate HD pipeline2. I replaced it with a standard size samsung 2TB and my HR24 had two screws to mount the drive, however since it had the thinner drive it also had a sponge in the HD casing to prevent shock movement, simply removed the sponge inserted the new drive (standard size) screwed in the screws put the case back on and was a done deal.


First off, my HR24-200 had 4 screws to mount the drive (plus 2 torx and 1 phillips to mount the cage to the box). Even without the acoustic foam the drive holes would not mount up, it just physically wouldn't line up. You can see in the picture (third look thread) that there is a open square hole on the top of the drive cage. The foam comes through that opening. Unfortunately, the opening is not big enough for the whole drive, therefore, the drives hits the metal around the hole. You can only put the drive so far down before it hits the metal cage around the foam. With the pipeline it lines up fine, with a WD15EADS it doesn't. I am close to pulling the box back out of the entertainment rack, taking it apart, and posting some pictures. Anyone else with an HR24-200 try this yet?


----------



## rlinsurf

anleva said:


> Here are the pictures I took of the location of the clips for an HR24-500. All 6 circled in red. For the side clips you use something thin to trip the clips from the bottom. For the two clips on the bottom (near the front) you can trip them with a flathead screwdriver. Do that and the case comes off fairly easily. Not sure if this is the same for other types of HR24's.
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=2469713&postcount=31


Yes, thank you. I looked at the pictures, but I don't see where the side clips are when the case is still closed. Anyway, I've slid a credit card in every place on the side I can, and i don't feel anything releasing. Could possible circle where the credit card should be used on the image with the case still closed?


----------



## CBMC

rlinsurf said:


> Yes, thank you. I looked at the pictures, but I don't see where the side clips are when the case is still closed. Anyway, I've slid a credit card in every place on the side I can, and i don't feel anything releasing. Could possible circle where the credit card should be used on the image with the case still closed?


Those locations (in that picture) are the locations that I would slide the credit cards in. Slide them in between the side plastic and the side metal. Use several credit cards. Push them in between the case at those locations, then push back the two front clips with a flathead, carefully pull up on the plastic top at the clip locations. You want to keep the credit card down the side so the clips don't reattach. It should open.


----------



## rlinsurf

Maybe I'm just stupid, but I can't even fit one credit card in the side anywhere. Please, if you can pm me the exact location circled in red?


----------



## CBMC

rlinsurf said:


> Maybe I'm just stupid, but I can't even fit one credit card in the side anywhere. Please, if you can pm me the exact location circled in red?


Pull the side apart (enough to fit card) at the bottom with your finger, then slide credit cards in at those spots. The clips are more like latches, if you push in a credit card then just pull it right out the latch will snap right back into place. I used the credit cards to push the latch back while I lifted the plastic cover.


----------



## Rich

CBMC said:


> First off, my HR24-200 had 4 screws to mount the drive (plus 2 torx and 1 phillips to mount the cage to the box). Even without the acoustic foam the drive holes would not mount up, it just physically wouldn't line up. You can see in the picture (third look thread) that there is a open square hole on the top of the drive cage. The foam comes through that opening. Unfortunately, the opening is not big enough for the whole drive, therefore, the drives hits the metal around the hole. You can only put the drive so far down before it hits the metal cage around the foam. With the pipeline it lines up fine, with a WD15EADS it doesn't. I am close to pulling the box back out of the entertainment rack, taking it apart, and posting some pictures. Anyone else with an HR24-200 try this yet?


I own one and you've got me interested now. I might give it a try with the 2TB WD EVDS I've got on it externally. Hate to go thru all the trouble if I have to modify the sled, but it sounds like something I could get into. I'll probably wait a while and see if anyone else answers that they've tried it and run into the same obstacles. I'm almost terminally lazy and I don't want to spend a lot of useless time with it. Don't think I doubt you. I don't and that alone is enough to turn me off.

Rich


----------



## CBMC

rich584 said:


> I own one and you've got me interested now. I might give it a try with the 2TB WD EVDS I've got on it externally. Hate to go thru all the trouble if I have to modify the sled, but it sounds like something I could get into. I'll probably wait a while and see if anyone else answers that they've tried it and run into the same obstacles. I'm almost terminally lazy and I don't want to spend a lot of useless time with it. Don't think I doubt you. I don't and that alone is enough to turn me off.
> 
> Rich


Come on, doubt me. Hell, with all the responses I am starting to doubt myself. :lol: It only takes about 10 minutes to open one of these up. If you do, could you take a couple of pics.


----------



## P Smith

Provoking him  ...


----------



## Rich

CBMC said:


> Come on, doubt me. Hell, with all the responses I am starting to doubt myself. :lol: It only takes about 10 minutes to open one of these up. If you do, could you take a couple of pics.


Oh, I hate to admit it, but my wife got a really expensive camera a year or so ago and I have no idea how to use it, or find it, for that matter. I've gotta get her to show me where she keeps the thing, how to use it and how to hook it up to my computer. Told you I was lazy, I wasn't kidding. 

Maybe I'll do the 200 today. Maybe. :lol:

Rich


----------



## Rich

CBMC said:


> Come on, doubt me. Hell, with all the responses I am starting to doubt myself. :lol: It only takes about 10 minutes to open one of these up. If you do, could you take a couple of pics.


OK, I did it. Opened the box, piece of cake. Took out the internal, piece of cake. No way to put the WD EVDS 2TB drive in without drilling four holes in the sled. Didn't see any reason to go thru all that, replaced the original HDD in it and hooked up the docking station again.

You are ABSOLUTELY correct! You cannot put a thicker HDD in that sled without modifying the sled. No need to doubt yourself, you're dead on!

Rich


----------



## harsh

hdtvfan0001 said:


> No own...no tamper.


Specifically (bolding mine):


DIRECTV Equipment Lease Addendum said:


> You shall have no right to sell, give away, transfer, pledge, mortgage, remove, relocate, *alter* or *tamper* with the DIRECTV equipment at any time.


----------



## Rich

harsh said:


> Specifically (bolding mine):


I own the 24-200. You are referencing leased receivers. I checked with the Protection Plan and the Case Management Group about putting large internals in the HRs and was told that since I own them, I can do what I want to with them. They do not belong to D*.

Rich


----------



## Rich

CBMC said:


> Come on, doubt me. Hell, with all the responses I am starting to doubt myself. :lol: It only takes about 10 minutes to open one of these up. If you do, could you take a couple of pics.


I checked the Seagate site and was surprised to see that the Pipeline series of HDDs is made for DVRs. But they only go up to 1TB at this time. Give it some time and they'll probably go up to 2TB HDDs.

Rich


----------



## TBlazer07

What I can't understand is why everyone is SO CONCERNED about someone else opening their equipment despite whether it is owned or leased. Every time someone discusses it (usually the same) people jump out of the woodwork repeating the same warnings over and over again ad nauseum every other message in the same thread. If someone opens their box whether leased or owned it has no effect on me or anyone else. I think we are all old enough here to take responsibility for what we do to our "stuff." So if someone asks for help either don't respond if the guilt is so overwhelming to you or help them. The constant warnings and quoting of TOS over and over is a bit silly. 

There are no "laws" against it. You can't go to jail and never once in the 5 or so years I have been reading these forums has ANYONE announced DirecTV has charged them $$$ for "tampering or altering" their equipment. I can say I once blew up a TiVo HR10 (don't ask) and DirecTV had no problem replacing it under the PP and if they weren't able to determine I destroyed that one then everyone is safe forever. 

There is no way that DirecTV would force YouTube to take down a video showing how to open a DirecTV receiver. That's just absurd.

Let's all show this same concern over not letting our friends drink then drive or not text while driving. Doing Those things can have a direct effect on other people. Opening a leased DirecTV box cannot.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

TBlazer07 said:


> What I can't understand is why everyone is SO CONCERNED about someone else opening their equipment despite whether it is owned or leased.
> <snip>


Because it's a violation of the lease addendum. This forum does not condone such things and would like to make sure the person asking the question is aware. IMHO, the only reason it's allowed at all is because of the owned receivers. If they were all leased then discussions about changing hardware inside the receiver would not be allowed...I think. :grin:

Mike


----------



## Rich

MicroBeta said:


> Because it's a violation of the lease addendum. This forum does not condone such things and would like to make sure the person asking the question is aware. IMHO, the only reason it's allowed at all is because of the owned receivers. If they were all leased then discussions about changing hardware inside the receiver would not be allowed...I think. :grin:
> 
> Mike


Do these same people send emails detailing the TOS to "certain" websites that openly modify leased equipment? And have openly modified leased equipment since the leasing program went into effect. I do think that an occasional reminder is warranted, but here we are discussing the same old thing again. And from a Dish customer? C'mon. How many times do I have to state that I bought 6 HRs just so I could modify them with larger internals? I bought them, I own them and I could take all six of them out and smash them with my trusty sledgehammer to bits and D* wouldn't do a thing about it. You could put that on You Tube and what could they do?

Rich


----------



## P Smith

Here we're going again ... same circle ... ad nauseum. It will never change.

[Mike, you are in tight loop.  We read that sentences many times already.]


----------



## RobertE

rich584 said:


> Do these same people send emails detailing the TOS to "certain" websites that openly modify leased equipment? And have openly modified leased equipment since the leasing program went into effect. I do think that an occasional reminder is warranted, but here we are discussing the same old thing again. And from a Dish customer? C'mon. How many times do I have to state that I bought 6 HRs just so I could modify them with larger internals? I bought them, I own them and I could take all six of them out and smash them with my trusty sledgehammer to bits and D* wouldn't do a thing about it. You could put that on You Tube and what could they do?
> 
> Rich


I can tell you what they wouldn't and shouldn't do. Replace them under the protection plan. Afterall, you did modify them with your sledge.


----------



## TBlazer07

MicroBeta said:


> Because it's a violation of the lease addendum. This forum does not condone such things and would like to make sure the person asking the question is aware. IMHO, the only reason it's allowed at all is because of the owned receivers. If they were all leased then discussions about changing hardware inside the receiver would not be allowed...I think. :grin:
> 
> Mike


It's not you're problem if it's a violation of the TOS (I'm not referring to "you" specifically, just all the "you's.") You're not "the forum." That's my point. If the mods want to say something they will. Is it really necessary for 4 or 5 people to repeat the same thing over and over again in the same thread? It's like everyone is trying to get "goodboy" points.


----------



## TBlazer07

RobertE said:


> I can tell you what they wouldn't and shouldn't do. Replace them under the protection plan. Afterall, you did modify them with your sledge.


 Maybe they SHOULDN'T but they do. If "they" don't care why should you?


----------



## Mike Bertelson

rich584 said:


> Do these same people send emails detailing the TOS to "certain" websites that openly modify leased equipment? And have openly modified leased equipment since the leasing program went into effect. I do think that an occasional reminder is warranted, but here we are discussing the same old thing again. And from a Dish customer? C'mon. How many times do I have to state that I bought 6 HRs just so I could modify them with larger internals? I bought them, I own them and I could take all six of them out and smash them with my trusty sledgehammer to bits and D* wouldn't do a thing about it. You could put that on You Tube and what could they do?
> 
> Rich


It's not always clear if someone owns their receivers. Heck, someone who doesn't know you might mention it in response to your post. The fact is, just as hacking discussion isn't allowed, neither is modifying leased receivers. It is what it is. :shrug:


P Smith said:


> Here we're going again ... same circle ... ad nauseum. It will never change.
> 
> [Mike, you are in tight loop.  We read that sentences many times already.]


Hey, he asked why it's mentioned...I'm just sayin' :grin:

A tight loop? What sentences? :scratchin


TBlazer07 said:


> It's not you're problem if it's a violation of the TOS (I'm not referring to "you" specifically, just all the "you's.") *You're not "the forum."* That's my point. If the mods want to say something they will. Is it really necessary for 4 or 5 people to repeat the same thing over and over again in the same thread? It's like everyone is trying to get "goodboy" points.


Yes I am the forum. So are you. Now I'm not sayin' everyone should moderate because that would be wrong. However, that doesn't mean a member can't toss a back to topic smiley or point out something to someone else. If someone oversteps into Mod territory I'm pretty sure the Mods will let them know. 

How about this? A fairly new member reads a thread about opening up a receiver and thinks he can go ahead do the same. Now if there is a warning post (you're right there doesn't need to half a dozen in a row) then that new member will then know.

I understand how tedious it is to read such posts, and I agree that it's way over done, but it does have its place. Personally I believe it's an important point that shouldn't be lost on newer members who may have missed previous threads. I for one try not to post about this particular point if it's already been done in that thread. I will if no one else had already done so. If you don't like it, skip over those posts...I try to. :grin:

Mike


----------



## P Smith

_
A tight loop? What sentences? _ - not sentences exactly, with the idea to catch an attention of everyone who're talking about of opening a box.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

P Smith said:


> _
> A tight loop? What sentences? _ - not sentences exactly, with the idea to catch an attention of everyone who're talking about of opening a box.


Still gon't get your meaning but that's ok. 

Mike


----------



## RobertE

TBlazer07 said:


> Maybe they SHOULDN'T but they do. If "they" don't care why should you?


Because it has the potential to drive up the costs for you, me and everyone else.


----------



## harsh

rich584 said:


> I own the 24-200. You are referencing leased receivers.


Understood and yes. I was following up on hdtvfan0001's post that, as is all to common in these forums, stopped short of quoting the much talked about (but strikingly unfamiliar) "TOS".


----------



## am7crew

rich584 said:


> Was it a 24-200?
> 
> Rich


yes, it has a black plastic box for the hard drive case (not metal) with screws which hold the drive in place.


----------



## TBlazer07

TBlazer07 said:


> Maybe they SHOULDN'T but they do. If "they" don't care why should you?





RobertE said:


> Because it has the potential to drive up the costs for you, me and everyone else.


 Horse poop. They have thousands of receivers sitting in piles like scrap. All they do is send out one of those. They are depreciated to $1. That's the main purpose of their lease program, to reuse receivers until they are trash then throw them away.

Edit: Of the millions of DirecTV customers what percentage MIGHT even attempt to open their box .... maybe 1/4 of 1%. How many of those will kill their receivers? How much are those infinitesimal few going to "drive up costs for you, me and everyone else." I really wouldn't lose any sleep over what a few people might do. I'd let DirecTV worry about it. Quite obviously they don't. Can you find a post here going back 5 years of someone who was charged for either opening a box or damaging one while doing so?


----------



## RobertE

TBlazer07 said:


> Horse poop. They have thousands of receivers sitting in piles like scrap. All they do is send out one of those. They are depreciated to $1. That's the main purpose of their lease program, to reuse receivers until they are trash then throw them away.
> 
> Edit: Of the millions of DirecTV customers what percentage MIGHT even attempt to open their box .... maybe 1/4 of 1%. How many of those will kill their receivers? How much are those infinitesimal few going to "drive up costs for you, me and everyone else." I really wouldn't lose any sleep over what a few people might do. I'd let DirecTV worry about it. Quite obviously they don't. Can you find a post here going back 5 years of someone who was charged for either opening a box or damaging one while doing so?


If a tree falls in a forest and no one around to hear it, does it still make a sound?

The lack of posts does not mean it has not or will not happen.

Push comes to shove, perhaps they should just modify the firmware to only recognize specific models. I'd hate to see that, but maybe thats a route they should explore.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

RobertE said:


> If a tree falls in a forest and no one around to hear it, does it still make a sound?
> 
> The lack of posts does not mean it has not or will not happen.
> 
> Push comes to shove, *perhaps they should just modify the firmware to only recognize specific models*. I'd hate to see that, but maybe thats a route they should explore.


Unlikely...I have seen at least 4 different internal HDD models from 2 different manufacturers in the HR24's already...would be more trouble than its worth.

Once more folks start getting hit with $500+ charges for violating the warranty by opening leased units...those who think they can just do what they want will become a bit wiser.


----------



## matt

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Once more folks start getting hit with $500+ charges for violating the warranty by opening leased units...those who think they can just do what they want will become a bit wiser.


:lol: They are too smart for that, they will just get the warranty stickers off amazon to avoid it!


----------



## hdtvfan0001

matt1124 said:


> :lol: They are too smart for that, they will just get the warranty stickers off amazon to avoid it!


 :lol::lol:


----------



## TBlazer07

RobertE said:


> If a tree falls in a forest and no one around to hear it, does it still make a sound?
> 
> The lack of posts does not mean it has not or will not happen.


Puhhhhleeze. :lol: This is the same place where if someone is charged 2cents more on a bill they scream their heads off and a 300 message long thread is created.


----------



## TBlazer07

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Once more folks start getting hit with $500+ charges for violating the warranty by opening leased units...those who think they can just do what they want will become a bit wiser.


Yea, that'll show 'em that they can't mess with DirecTV! :lol::hurah::lol::hurah:


----------



## TBlazer07

matt1124 said:


> :lol: They are too smart for that, they will just get the warranty stickers off amazon to avoid it!


 2 of my 4 "refurbs" never had warranty stickers and on one of them it was so obviously removed that the outline of "void" is still there.


----------



## Rich

am7crew said:


> The thin-ness of the drive doesnt matter mine came with a stock thin seagate HD pipeline2. I replaced it with a standard size samsung 2TB and my HR24 had two screws to mount the drive, however since it had the thinner drive it also had a sponge in the HD casing to prevent shock movement, simply removed the sponge inserted the new drive (standard size) screwed in the screws put the case back on and was a done deal.


That Samsung must be a lot thinner than the WD EVDS. There is NO WAY you could fit that WD EVDS into the sled without modifying the sled.

Rich


----------



## Rich

am7crew said:


> yes, it has a black plastic box for the hard drive case (not metal) with screws which hold the drive in place.


Mine had a gray sled for the HDD. I even tried putting the WD EVDS in upside down and it wouldn't fit.

Rich


----------



## hdtvfan0001

TBlazer07 said:


> 2 of my 4 "refurbs" never had warranty stickers and on one of them it was so obviously removed that the outline of "void" is still there.


While the stickers are the most obvious...that's not the only way they can tell if one has been tampered with...


----------



## matt

hdtvfan0001 said:


> While the stickers are the most obvious...that's not the only way they can tell if one has been tampered with...


Like the paint coming off on the screws, like the one I just got from D* last week? :lol:


----------



## hdtvfan0001

matt1124 said:


> Like the paint coming off on the screws, like the one I just got from D* last week? :lol:


How about a quick bench test that can be done, as well as the operational device information (which included HDD information) that can be obtained.


----------



## Rich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> How about a quick bench test that can be done, as well as the operational device information (which included HDD information) that can be obtained.


And the "quick bench test" would be done by the "refurbishing" contractor? Before or after they repack and send the "refurb (what a joke!)" out to some unsuspecting customer? :lol:

Rich


----------



## hdtvfan0001

rich584 said:


> And the "quick bench test" would be done by the "refurbishing" contractor? Before or after they repack and send the "refurb (what a joke!)" out to some unsuspecting customer? :lol:
> 
> Rich


Then again...they can request a status report at will, which includes all the diagnostic information, including model, serial number, and other information on the internal hard drive.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

rich584 said:


> And the "quick bench test" would be done by the "refurbishing" contractor? Before or after they repack and send the "refurb (what a joke!)" out to some unsuspecting customer? :lol:
> 
> Rich


No one said they were good at "refurbishing" a DVR, just that it's done. :lol:

Mike


----------



## matt

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Then again...they can request a status report at will, which includes all the diagnostic information, including model, serial number, and other information on the internal hard drive.


Ah, now it makes sense! I was wondering how they would have known if you put the original drive back in before sending it back for "refurbishment", but if they did an audit while it was in service, that would sure do it.

Wonder what their recourse would be? Total disconnection or just bricking the receiver?


----------



## hdtvfan0001

matt1124 said:


> Ah, now it makes sense! I was wondering how they would have known if you put the original drive back in before sending it back for "refurbishment", but if they did an audit while it was in service, that would sure do it.
> 
> Wonder what their recourse would be? Total disconnection or just bricking the receiver?


I suspect it depends on the age/condition of the units.

In the case of the newer HR24's (topic of this thread), they could do a refurbish pretty quickly from the looks of the "innards".


----------



## matt

hdtvfan0001 said:


> In the case of the newer HR24's (topic of this thread), they could do a refurbish pretty quickly from the looks of the "innards".


Especially with the mythical tool they have to open them. Would be funny if there were a bunch of cut up credit cards in the refurb place :lol:


----------



## Mike Bertelson

matt1124 said:


> Especially with the mythical tool they have to open them. Would be funny if there were a bunch of cut up credit cards in the refurb place :lol:


Isn't that tool called a spudger?

Mike


----------



## Sim-X

TBlazer07 said:


> What I can't understand is why everyone is SO CONCERNED about someone else opening their equipment despite whether it is owned or leased. Every time someone discusses it (usually the same) people jump out of the woodwork repeating the same warnings over and over again ad nauseum every other message in the same thread. If someone opens their box whether leased or owned it has no effect on me or anyone else. I think we are all old enough here to take responsibility for what we do to our "stuff." So if someone asks for help either don't respond if the guilt is so overwhelming to you or help them. The constant warnings and quoting of TOS over and over is a bit silly.
> 
> There are no "laws" against it. You can't go to jail and never once in the 5 or so years I have been reading these forums has ANYONE announced DirecTV has charged them $$$ for "tampering or altering" their equipment. I can say I once blew up a TiVo HR10 (don't ask) and DirecTV had no problem replacing it under the PP and if they weren't able to determine I destroyed that one then everyone is safe forever.
> 
> There is no way that DirecTV would force YouTube to take down a video showing how to open a DirecTV receiver. That's just absurd.
> 
> Let's all show this same concern over not letting our friends drink then drive or not text while driving. Doing Those things can have a direct effect on other people. Opening a leased DirecTV box cannot.


Couldn't agree more with you, when I said I opened up my HR24 I got attacked. It's absolutely ridiculous. There are a few people here who go around trolling reminding any rule breakers the law of the land, it's very annoying.

No one cares about some stupid lease agreement that 99.9% don't read and it's not the trolls job to enforce it. I'm not saying there needs to be any discussion on it, but not once did I ever say I opened a leased receiver and frankly it is no ones business if I decide to open an IRD.

You are always going to have those few people out there who have nothing better to do with there time then 2 be trollin.

If anyone needs help opening there HR24 just let me know. (Owned of course )

I have a 2TB internal WD-EVDS drive installed on my HR24-500 and it works wonderful. It is a little over kill now that I have 4 DVR's on MRV.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Sim-X said:


> Couldn't agree more with you, when I said I opened up my HR24 I got attacked. It's absolutely ridiculous. There are a few people here who go around trolling reminding any rule breakers the law of the land, it's very annoying.
> 
> No one cares about some stupid lease agreement that 99.9% don't read and it's not the trolls job to enforce it. I'm not saying there needs to be any discussion on it, but not once did I ever say I opened a leased receiver and frankly it is no ones business if I decide to open an IRD.


Promoting an act that violates a lease agreement is trolling, as opposed to pointing out those provisions. 

That's done to help unknowing users from doing the wrong thing - simple as that.

If you own yours - do what you will. I saw no evidence of anyone who indicated they had an owned unit being "attacked" in this thread.


----------



## P Smith

hdtvfan0001 said:


> How about a quick bench test that can be done, as well as the operational device information (which included HDD information) that can be obtained.


Irony or Catch-22 - the info about HDD serial number, model, etc stored inside of system logs on *THE *drive.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

P Smith said:


> Irony - the info about HDD serial number, model, etc stored inside of system logs on *THE *drive.


:lol: Yup.


----------



## Rich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> :lol: Yup.


Think we could go back to the topic now? This is getting kinda boring. I believe we were told by the Mods that any conversations we had on the topic of putting large internals would be taken to mean that we were doing that to "owned" HRs and I've been doing just that.

Rich


----------



## Sim-X

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Promoting an act that violates a lease agreement is trolling, as opposed to pointing out those provisions.
> 
> That's done to help unknowing users from doing the wrong thing - simple as that.
> 
> If you own yours - do what you will. I saw no evidence of anyone who indicated they had an owned unit being "attacked" in this thread.


Pretty sure no one promotes opening leases irds at all. Helping unknown users? Constant nag and reminders about opening up lease equipment is NOT needed. If you don't know that opening up your IRD that you leased violates the lease agreement then your an idiot. Owned or not it is NONE of your business if it is or not. I can't tell you how many comments I have seen of nags when a person is just asking for help and instead they are getting questioned by trolls. I have seen numerous people here purposely go out of there to chime in about the stupid lease agreement that most people don't care about. From now on just pretend that everyone owns there HR24 then you can quit losing sleep about the people that may be violating there lease agreement.

I don't see people coming in here saying hey help me open my leased HR24. So stop assuming and stop caring if it is leased or not. It in NO WAY affects you what so ever. Stop thinking about it and maybe you can stop yourself from questioning it.

If anyone wants advice on opening an HR24-500 I would be more than happy to help you as well as some other fine people here. I'm so sick of babies crying about the lease agreement when they shouldn't even be concerned about it in the first place.

Don't Ask, Don't Tell, pretty simple


----------



## Doug Brott

Hey, I've got an idea .. Let's get back on topic and off this whole "troll" kick. There really is no need for name calling by anyone.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Sim-X said:


> Pretty sure no one promotes opening leases irds at all. Helping unknown users?


*Unknowing* was the word used (as in folks who are unaware they are not allowed to simply open up their leased units).

Since most users do not own their HR24's...and some are new to DirecTV...reading some of the posts in this thread....the impression is that chaging out internal drives are permissable (which is true if the unit is owned of course).

:backtotop

Interesting to see that the -200 units have more of a challenge because of the internal drive mount (when compared with the -500 or -100). Also good to know.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

hdtvfan0001 said:


> *Unknowing* was the word used (as in folks who are unaware they are not allowed to simply open up their leased units).
> 
> Since most users do not own their HR24's...and some are new to DirecTV...reading some of the posts in this thread....the impression is that chaging out internal drives are permissable (which is true if the unit is owned of course).
> 
> :backtotop
> 
> Interesting to see that the -200 units have more of a challenge because of the internal drive mount (when compared with the -500 or -100). Also good to know.


It is interesting that the mounting system is quite different.

Mike


----------



## Joe C

Well I've got to agree with Sim-X, 100%, he is on the money.

That said, I would open my leased HR's to upgrade/replace the drive if the need arose. I and only I am responsible for my actions and would deal with the consequences from Directv should that day ever come.


----------



## Sim-X

When I first took my -500 apart, I wasn't even sure my drive was going to fit. I was surprised that the drive in there was so slim. It did fit fine but that is good to know if I decide to get another box in the future. 

Has anyone successfully upgraded the internal of a -200?


----------



## TBlazer07

matt1124 said:


> Ah, now it makes sense! I was wondering how they would have known if you put the original drive back in before sending it back for "refurbishment", but if they did an audit while it was in service, that would sure do it.
> 
> Wonder what their recourse would be? Total disconnection or just bricking the receiver?


An audit of hard drive serial numbers, LMAO ..... they can't even keep track of free PPV coupons! Actually right after they get the audio drop problems resolved they'll work on logging hard drive serial number so they can catch you putting an original drive back in the box before sending it back. Top priority. 

Actually if they did do it the recourse would be 6 months of having to read all the messages over and over from those maintaining or vying for their special badges by saying "it's leased, you can't do that, it's leased, you can't do that, it's leased, you can't do that, it's leased, you can't do that, it's leased, you can't do that."
:lol:


----------



## Rich

MicroBeta said:


> It is interesting that the mounting system is quite different.
> 
> Mike


Particularly interesting since I've been told by several people that the specs sent to each manufacturer were identical. Send the identical specs to several manufacturers and you should get identical devices. At least in my world.

Rich


----------



## anleva

TBlazer07 said:


> An audit of hard drive serial numbers, LMAO ..... they can't even keep track of free PPV coupons! Actually right after they get the audio drop problems resolved they'll work on logging hard drive serial number so they can catch you putting an original drive back in the box before sending it back. Top priority.
> 
> Actually if they did do it the recourse would be 6 months of having to read all the messages over and over from those maintaining or vying for their special badges by saying "it's leased, you can't do that, it's leased, you can't do that, it's leased, you can't do that, it's leased, you can't do that, it's leased, you can't do that."
> :lol:


:lol:










Badges? We don't need no stinking badges


----------



## Mike Bertelson

rich584 said:


> Particularly interesting since I've been told by several people that the specs sent to each manufacturer were identical. Send the identical specs to several manufacturers and you should get identical devices. At least in my world.
> 
> Rich


I'm guessing but I suspect the spec are performance based using specific components and not "nuts & bolts" locations. If that's the case then where the drive is and how it's mounted is then at the manufacturer's discretion.

It's a theory. :grin:

Mike


----------



## Rich

MicroBeta said:


> I'm guessing but I suspect the spec are performance based using specific components and not "nuts & bolts" locations. If that's the case then where the drive is and how it's mounted is then at the manufacturer's discretion.
> 
> It's a theory. :grin:
> 
> Mike


Mike, don't take this as an insult, but have you ever worked in an industrial setting? When we sent manufacturers specs they were supposed to follow those specs to the letter, not deviate from the specs when they felt the need.

Again, I bring up something as simple as a Bud bottle (I worked in the glass industry for a few years before settling into the chemical manufacturing world). Deviate just a touch with a bottle of Bud and you lose the contract, at worst, or are put into the lower echelon of suppliers. Specs are specs. Defined by engineers and should produce identical devices or items.

Go buy a part from your local NAPA store. You'll notice it is identical to the original part that is on your car. Is it made by GM? No, but it's made to GM's specs.

Rich


----------



## Mike Bertelson

rich584 said:


> Mike, don't take this as an insult, but have you ever worked in an industrial setting? When we sent manufacturers specs they were supposed to follow those specs to the letter, not deviate from the specs when they felt the need.
> 
> Again, I bring up something as simple as a Bud bottle (I worked in the glass industry for a few years before settling into the chemical manufacturing world). Deviate just a touch with a bottle of Bud and you lose the contract, at worst, or are put into the lower echelon of suppliers. Specs are specs. Defined by engineers and should produce identical devices or items.
> 
> Go buy a part from your local NAPA store. You'll notice it is identical to the original part that is on your car. Is it made by GM? No, but it's made to GM's specs.
> 
> Rich


No problem Rich. No offense taken. 

As a matter of fact, I work in such an industry right now. Most of what we design and implement are based on using specific components and meeting certain performance criteria (in my case fluid mechanical systems). As to the physical layout of those components, that we determine to meet the criteria specified by the customer. In certain cases from one ship to another (we build ships for the Navy) components unrelated to my piping system require changing the geometry of my system while maintaining the specified criteria.

IOW, we use the components specified, using the materials specified, and meet the performance criteria specified and still have a different physical arrangement from ship to ship. This same premise applies at scale ranging from large piping systems to electronic components. Using the requested parts and meeting the specified performance in a different arrangement. It's done all the time in engineering design. 

In the case of a Bud bottle, a deviation from specs is a deviation from brand recognition.

I can't tell you the number of times I've gotten a replacement part that the dealer such as Chevy and from a store such as NAPA and in each case the part was different from the original, _but_ was considered equivalent to OEM...I'm just sayin' :grin:

Mike


----------



## Rich

MicroBeta said:


> No problem Rich. No offense taken.
> 
> As a matter of fact, I work in such an industry right now. Most of what we design and implement are based on using specific components and meeting certain performance criteria (in my case fluid mechanical systems). As to the physical layout of those components, that we determine to meet the criteria specified by the customer. In certain cases from one ship to another (we build ships for the Navy) components unrelated to my piping system require changing the geometry of my system while maintaining the specified criteria.
> 
> IOW, we use the components specified, using the materials specified, and meet the performance criteria specified and still have a different physical arrangement from ship to ship. This same premise applies at scale ranging from large piping systems to electronic components. Using the requested parts and meeting the specified performance in different configurations. It's done all the time in engineering design.


Ships I can understand. There's no way every ship in the fleet is gonna be the same. Or even every destroyer within a class. And piping runs can vary just as conduit runs can vary. What I'm talking about are "Identical Specifications". That only means one thing to me.



> In the case of a Bud bottle, a deviation from specs is a deviation from brand recognition.


Not quite what I was talking about. The molds for the bottles are hand made (or were, way back when) and if one mold happened to have an extra or a missing eagle, Bud would consider letting that out on the market unacceptable and would take steps that would terrify a bottle supplier financially. They want each bottle to match the specs they send the glass house, they want identical bottles.



> I can't tell you the number of times I've gotten a replacement part that the dealer such as Chevy and from a store such as NAPA and in each case the part was different from the original, _but_ was considered equivalent to OEM...I'm just sayin' :grin:


Yeah, I've gone thru that too, but the screw holes were always where they were supposed to be and the parts fit. You can't say that about a 24-500 and a 24-200. I have been told that the specs were "identical". That would mean to me that I can take my owned 24-200 and put any part from the 24-500 in it and it will work. I don't think that's true.

Rich


----------



## Mike Bertelson

rich584 said:


> Ships I can understand. There's no way every ship in the fleet is gonna be the same. Or even every destroyer within a class. And piping runs can vary just as conduit runs can vary. What I'm talking about are "Identical Specifications". That only means one thing to me.
> 
> Not quite what I was talking about. The molds for the bottles are hand made (or were, way back when) and if one mold happened to have an extra or a missing eagle, Bud would consider letting that out on the market unacceptable and would take steps that would terrify a bottle supplier financially. They want each bottle to match the specs they send the glass house, they want identical bottles.
> 
> Yeah, I've gone thru that too, but the screw holes were always where they were supposed to be and the parts fit. You can't say that about a 24-500 and a 24-200. I have been told that the specs were "identical". That would mean to me that I can take my owned 24-200 and put any part from the 24-500 in it and it will work. I don't think that's true.
> 
> Rich


You were told that specs included the construction diagrams down to component locations, mounts, brackets....down to the very last screw? I find that very hard to believe, especially considering that every manufacturer of every HR has been different inside. That would tell me that there aren't any construction/assembly diagrams with tolerances and measurements...just the required components and system performance.

Where did you hear the construction, assembly, and mesurement specs were identical?

I have never seen every piece of electronic hardware that was identical. In my usta-be-in-IT days, we ordered 500 Compaq ProLinea desktops. We got them in over a six month period. I can tell you for a fact that, even though they were all the exact same model PCs, the were many differences between them; usually based on where they were made.

It has been my experience that my ship analogy extends to most things big and small.

Mike


----------



## Rich

MicroBeta said:


> You were told that specs included the construction diagrams down to component locations, mounts, brackets....down to the very last screw? I find that very hard to believe, especially considering that every manufacturer of every HR has been different inside. That would tell me that there aren't any construction/assembly diagrams with tolerances and measurements...just the required components and system performance.
> 
> Where did you hear the construction, assembly, and mesurement specs were identical?
> 
> I have never seen every piece of electronic hardware that was identical. In my usta-be-in-IT days, we ordered 500 Compaq ProLinea desktops. We got them in over a six month period. I can tell you for a fact that, even though they were all the exact same model PCs, the were many differences between them; usually based on where they were made.
> 
> It has been my experience that my ship analogy extends to most things big and small.
> 
> Mike


OK.

Rich


----------



## CTskydiver

rich584 said:


> Particularly interesting since I've been told by several people that the specs sent to each manufacturer were identical. Send the identical specs to several manufacturers and you should get identical devices. At least in my world.
> 
> Rich


More than one way to skin a cat. All Formula 1 cars are built to identical FIA specs; but yet they all look a bit different inside and out, because the specs can't specify EVERYTHING. As long as the DVR's look the same on the outside, and work the same on the inside, DirecTV probably leaves it up to the manufacturers to build them as they see fit.

Oh, or what he said^.


----------



## Rich

CTskydiver said:


> More than one way to skin a cat. All Formula 1 cars are built to identical FIA specs; but yet they all look a bit different inside and out, because the specs can't specify EVERYTHING. As long as the DVR's look the same on the outside, and work the same on the inside, DirecTV probably leaves it up to the manufacturers to build them as they see fit.
> 
> Oh, or what he said^.


I really doubt that, but arguing seems futile.

Rich


----------



## bobcamp1

Tivo DOES lock out all other models of external eSATA hard drives except for the official DVR Expander (which sucks, because they are unreliable). If you plug other models in, they don't work. So it isn't hard for D* to do something like that. But that would create logistical nightmares, so they don't do it for the internal drives.

As far as upgrading internal drives, Tivo can definitely tell. Their rules are: it violates the 90 warranty if it already hasn't expired, and you cannot participate in beta/cutting edge programs. Otherwise, they don't care. In fact, they have allowed two companies to redistribute the software so that it is done correctly.

If the units are leased, that violates the lease and D* can charge you full price (i.e. force you to buy it). Just keep the original hard drive and put it back in before you ship the DVR back. They'll never know.

As far as practical advice, make sure the new hard drive doesn't consume more power than the old drive. You don't want to burn out the DVR's internal power supply. A lot of times they are designed with very little margin.


----------



## CBMC

I know that alot discourage people from opening these. And I am not one of those people, but, I will repeat that the HR24-200 will not allow a "normal sized" hard drive without modifying the hard drive cage. If you are willing to modify the cage and take that risk, then by all means go ahead (I was,and so far, so good), but if you aren't willing to do it then don't bother opening a HR24-200. I know Rick and I both posted this awhile back, but wanted to repost since everyone doesn't have the time to read through every post.


----------



## Rich

CBMC said:


> I know that alot discourage people from opening these. And I am not one of those people, but, I will repeat that the HR24-200 will not allow a "normal sized" hard drive without modifying the hard drive cage. If you are willing to modify the cage and take that risk, then by all means go ahead (I was,and so far, so good), but if you aren't willing to do it then don't bother opening a HR24-200. I know Rick and I both posted this awhile back, but wanted to repost since everyone doesn't have the time to read through every post.


Keep in mind that Seagate does sell a Pipeline 1TB HDD that will, I think, fit the sled on the 200. Hopefully, they will produce a 2TB or a 1.5TB (a size that is really all you need with multiple HRs) HDD soon.

Rich


----------



## Mike Bertelson

rich584 said:


> I really doubt that, but arguing seems futile.
> 
> Rich


It is an absolute fact. Especially since every single manufacturers version of a given HR model is different on the inside, and has been since day one. This is rock solid absolute indisputable proof that the internal construction is not specified by DirecTV. This explains why drives fit differently and the connectors have different locations depending on who manufacturers a given HR model.

Unless you're somehow suggesting that DirecTV is unaware that they differ internally in which case I'm wrong about indisputable. :shrug:

Mike


----------



## bigjosh

My Weeknees-upgraded HR24 died shortly after recieving it. It would take hours to get past the "Check sat settings" screen, and once booted would quickly crash. Unfortunaly I assumed this was a problem with my connections and so took several months (at 20-30 hours per reboot cycle time goes fast) to finally contact Weekness and missed the 90 day cut-off for repairs. 

They suggested trying an external drive and doing a disk scan. Interestingly, the external drive did not solve the problem, which suggests that the HR24 still uses the internal drive for something even if an external drive is connected. This goes against much of what I've read that the external drive will completely cover the internal drive if connected. 

So, stuck with an owned useless $400 box that already had the warantee seals busted thanks to Weekness, I had nothing to loose by trying to open it. 

Opening it was not hard and the drive was easy to access with just a few creditcards (for the plastic latches) and a torx screwdriver. 

You can find some photos of the internals by going to Flickr and searching on "hr24 internals".

Weekness used a WD10EVVS drive. This is one of those "green" drives that use less power and run cooler than normal drives- so it seems like a good choice if it weren't for the failure. I wonder if I was just unluckly or if these drives are less reliable. 

Anyway, replaced it with a WD1500 that I happened to have laying around. It fit perfectly with no hassles. When I turned the unit on I saw a quick "Preparing hard drive" message and then it booted normally! A very happy ending to a very long story. 

Now that it is working, I love the HR24. Much faster than the HR23. 

Just wanted to post here becuase (1) thought some people would like to see the insides of the HR24 just for curiosity, and (2) thought someone might have simlar problems with a very long boots and crashes and not realize it could be easily fixed with an internal drive swap. 

-josh


----------



## P Smith

You forgot to inform us what exactly model of HR24 you have. -200 or -500 ? Or ?

{josh, what is that crazy things pictured on Flikr ? SF6 ? where you you bought that torx 5-star set ? }


----------



## bigjosh

P Smith said:


> You forgot to inform us what exactly model of HR24 you have. -200 or -500 ? Or ?


{It was a 1TB from Weeknees, but it started off life as an HR24-500 when they got it. }



P Smith said:


> {josh, what is that crazy things pictured on Flikr ? SF6 ?


{SF6 is Sulfur Hexafloride, a *very* heavy gas.}



P Smith said:


> where you you bought that torx 5-star set ? }


{I got the torx 5-star set on Amazon.}


----------



## P Smith

Thanks for Amazon hint; I know SF6 is a gas, but don't know how you'll use it ?

[Your pictures show very wide angle of interests - networks, wireless cameras hacking, the gas, torx, .... Man ! You're touching so many sides ! Like Mr. Q  ]


----------



## Rich

bigjosh said:


> My Weeknees-upgraded HR24 died shortly after recieving it. It would take hours to get past the "Check sat settings" screen, and once booted would quickly crash. Unfortunaly I assumed this was a problem with my connections and so took several months (at 20-30 hours per reboot cycle time goes fast) to finally contact Weekness and missed the 90 day cut-off for repairs.


That's one thing I never liked about Weaknees. That too short warranty. I went thru that a lot with TiVo HDDs. Spent a lot of money on HDDs that lasted six months.



> They suggested trying an external drive and doing a disk scan. Interestingly, the external drive did not solve the problem, which suggests that the HR24 still uses the internal drive for something even if an external drive is connected. This goes against much of what I've read that the external drive will completely cover the internal drive if connected.


We had a discussion about the "held back" portion a short time ago. I came away from that discussion with the thought that the original purpose of that held back portion of every HDD had changed from content to actually doing something in conjunction with the OS on the flash drive. I remember *Steve* being very persuasive in that discussion.

I think your post is one of the first to confirm that opinion. It would seem logical that the internal HDD was damaged and was causing the problem with your 24-500. I don't see any other conclusion.

Rich


----------



## olident

I've had problems with external eSATA enclosures not being recognized after a power outage (DVR comes up faster than external drives, so the DVR defaults to its internal drive). To avoid this, I put the drive on the inside.

Standard disclaimer: Only do this on an owned box or you void your lease terms.

I have added a 2TB internal drive to my HR24-500. After reading this forum, I thought I'd expand a little on the process, and in particular describe in more detail how the clasps holding the external cover work.

As has been noted in this thread elsewhere there are 6 latching points, two on each side, and two up front. You have to release the side latches before proceeding to the front latches. All are accessed from the bottom of the HR24.

With the HR24 turned upside down (case bottom facing up) and looking down at the outside cover edge at a spot where one of the side locking clasps is, there are two small slots with an ~ 1/4" blocked off space between them. In ASCII it looks something like this with the #1 and #3 at the open slots and the '=' being the bottom edge of the plastic case (treat all the '*' as empty space - they are just to keep ASCII spacing correct):

======*1*===*3*======

Looking at the same spot, but from the side of the case, (bottom of HR24 still to the top and using x-ray glasses) you'd see something like:

======***===***=== (HR 24 external cover bottom edge)
*********_2_****** (locking tab #2 in HR24 case, engaging plastic cover)
******_1_***_3_**** (unlocking tabs, #1, #3 in HR24 case)

It is the center tab on the clasp (#2, closest to case bottom) that does the locking by protruding from the HR24 case and engaging the external plastic cover - basically sticking straight into a slot on the external cover. This tab is about 1/8" wide. On each side of this tab, beneath the 'open' slots on the bottom edge of the plastic case and a bit further down (towards the top of the HR24) are two "unlock" tabs (#1, #3) which are about 3/16" wide. The central tab is separated from each side tab in the horizontal direction by a distance of about 1/8".

If there is a 'tool' designed to open these, its business end is basically two flat prongs which insert between the case and the cover through the open slots above the #1 and #3 tabs at each of the 4 side latch sites. The tool depresses the #1 and #3 tabs back into the case at each site causing the #2 tab at each site to retract into the case, thus releasing the cover at these points. I didn't realize this until after the case was removed and I could see how the mechanisms worked, i.e., I brute forced the cover, one site at a time, away from the #2 tab and then inserted the door shims. *CAUTION*: you have to pull pretty hard on the case to get the #2 tab to disengage by itself (that is, without pressing the #1 or #3 tab). This is where there is a risk of breaking the case if you are not careful. You'll be better off trying to use something to press in one (or both) of the unlocking tabs (#1, #3) and then slipping in something to prevent the #2 tab from re-engaging the case. Pressing either #1 or #3 coaxes #2 to disengage slightly, reducing the distance you have to pull the outside cover away from the case to disengage the #2 tab, but pressing both to completely disengage the #2 tab is better than pressing just one.

Once all 4 side tabs are disengaged (and something is in place on each to keep them from re-engaging, like 4 door shims or 4 credit cards) you can begin to separate the cover from the case at the rear of the HR24.

At this point the two front latches simply need to be pushed towards the rear of the box to disengage them (lift up a bit so they fall through the slot they're coming up through and they'll stay disengaged).

Then the cover comes off.

On to the hard drive.

Once inside, the replacement was straightforward, but definitely not as simple as replacing a PC hard drive. Components are very close together and delicate. You need to exercise care and proceed slowly. Steps I followed were basically:

1) slide wires routed through external tabs in the hard drive enclosure out of the way so they aren't encumbering it.

2) the fan is integral to the hard drive enclosure and its electrical connection needs to be disconnected at the motherboard in order to flip the drive enclosure over and access the hard drive. To do this unclip the fan's wire harness from the motherboard (4 thin wires towards front of HR24; press the clip gently and pull up to remove). Remember the orientation of the clip for when you need to replace this.

3) remove 4 torx screws holding down the drive enclosure (carefully, some of this work is near internal capacitors). A magnetic or some form of capture torx to grab the hard to get to screws once they are free is advised.

4) gently lift the drive assembly up and disconnect the SATA and power cables (you have to press on release clips to remove these two connections).

5) remove the metal grounding tab from the bottom (circuit board side) of the hard drive by removing the 2 screws holding it (note orientation on drive relative to SATA/power connectors).

6) remove 4 retaining screws holding the drive to the enclosure and remove the drive.

7) put in your new drive and reverse steps. Note, the 2TB drive was thicker than the 500MB drive, so I had to remove the piece of foam that was sandwiched between the 500MB drive and the drive enclosure.

When the unit is powered up, the drive is initialized and you're on your way.


----------



## P Smith

Would you make a few pictures instead of the long boring description ?


----------



## matt

I am surprised no snoopers of some of my self hosted pics have figured out I have pics of how to do it in my photobucket. Please substitute a cut up credit card for the razor blades... the blades were a first attempt and I showed someone the process and they used a card.


----------



## P Smith

Care to post URL ?


----------



## Rich

P Smith said:


> Would you make a few pictures instead of the long boring description ?


It's easy. You can figure it out.

Rich


----------



## P Smith

Sure, just don't my own to practice  - after seen pictures it should be easy, thanks to Matt. 
Now I'm looking around to build professional opener.


----------



## matt

P Smith said:


> Now I'm looking around to build professional opener.


Then you could get a club membership and sell them in the buy/sell/trade section! :lol:


----------



## P Smith

I'm afraid it will be new ban, but for life ...


----------



## Rich

P Smith said:


> Sure, just don't my own to practice  - after seen pictures it should be easy, thanks to Matt.
> Now I'm looking around to build professional opener.


All you need is an old credit card or an old access card. Just enough to hold the clips back. They work well on 20-700s for the clips too.

Rich


----------



## P Smith

I did serve some RMA/manufacturing issues and always itched when saw small but an inventions what ppl creating for mass production or RMA centers. Perhaps I'm educated as EE ?


----------



## davel

I have been meaning to post my pictures for a while. Thanks to those that helped me accomplish it (anleva). These are of an HR-24-100.

1. In picture #1 unscrew the two screws in 0 that hold the drive down (don't worry there are two more inside, these are a standard t-10), then release tabs 1,2,3 and gently lift up on the coax terminal (this was the easiest way I found). Place a screwdriver underneath the top like in picture #2. The tabs_closeup picture shows the outside case where you need to insert the flat blade and circled in blue the tab that you need to push in to release the top of the case.

2. Release tabs 4,5,6 in picture #1. Elevate the second side by using a flat screwdriver like in picture #3

3. The top is now clear like in #4 and will slide straight off revealing picture #5

4. Place new drive on top of old drive like in picture #6 and boot up and format like all the other drive upgrade threads. Note step 4 is not needed if you are just replacing the old drive and do not care about the current recordings.

5. Remove the two drive screws in picture #7 with the t-10 screwdriver. The old drive should now come out.

6. Replace with new drive, attach drive screws, plug in cords, place top back on and slide until it clicks and you are done!

Overall, once you figure out the tabs (and it is really easy) this DVR is a ton easier than the hr-20,23

Don't forget to turn off "power up in standby mode" on the old drive so you can use it in a regular pc by following the instructions Here


----------



## Rich

davel said:


> I have been meaning to post my pictures for a while. Thanks to those that helped me accomplish it (anleva). These are of an HR-24-100.
> 
> In picture #1 unscrew the two screws in 0 that hold the drive down (don't worry there are two more inside, these are a standard t-10), then release tabs 1,2,3 and gently lift up on the coax terminal (this was the easiest way I found). Place a screwdriver underneath the top like in picture #2. The tabs_closeup picture shows the outside case where you need to insert the flat blade and circled in blue the tab that you need to push in to release the top of the case.
> 
> Release tabs 4,5,6 in picture #1. Elevate the second side by using a flat screwdriver like in picture #3
> 
> The top is now clear like in #4 and will slide straight off revealing picture #5
> 
> Place new drive on top of old drive like in picture #6 and boot up and format like all the other drive replacement threads
> 
> Remove the two drive screws in picture #7 with the t-10 screwdriver. The old drive should now come out.
> 
> Replace with new drive, attach drive screws, plug in cords, place top back on and slide until it clicks and you are done!
> 
> Overall, once you figure out the tabs (and it is really easy) this DVR is a ton easier than the hr-20,23


Why did you put the HDD on top of the old HDD and reboot?

Rich


----------



## hasan

rich584 said:


> Why did you put the HDD on top of the old HDD and reboot?
> 
> Rich


To make sure it worked properly before putting things all back together?


----------



## Rich

hasan said:


> To make sure it worked properly before putting things all back together?


That was the only thing I could think of. Never done it that way. Usually pretty sure the thing will work when I put a larger internal in. I do test the HDDs before I install them, but I've never used the method he did. Not a bad idea, tho. First time I've seen anybody do that.

Rich


----------



## Richierich

hasan said:


> To make sure it worked properly before putting things all back together?


Very Smart as you don't want to Button Everything back up to only find out it won't work because a wire is loose or unconnected.


----------



## Rich

richierich said:


> Very Smart as you don't want to Button Everything back up to only find out it won't work because a wire is loose or unconnected.


Yup, I've done that. But, I'd be just a little leery of the HDD on top falling off and causing something catastrophic to happen. But I'm a raging pessimist and always look at the worst case scenario.

Rich


----------



## Richierich

rich584 said:


> Yup, I've done that. But, I'd be just a little leery of the HDD on top falling off and causing something catastrophic to happen. But I'm a raging pessimist and always look at the worst case scenario.
> 
> Rich


Just tape it down temporarily.

What is this about being a Raging Pessimist??? Did you join the "Mike Greer Fanclub"???


----------



## Rich

richierich said:


> Just tape it down temporarily.
> 
> What is this about being a Raging Pessimist??? Did you join the "Mike Greer Fanclub"???


Always been one. Well, not really "always". Working for that chemical company really changed the way I looked at things. Can't just shrug that off, much as I'd like to. Looking at the worst case scenario isn't the worst thing you can do.

Rich


----------



## Richierich

rich584 said:


> Looking at the worst case scenario isn't the worst thing you can do.
> 
> Rich


Being a Computer Programmer/Consultant I had to learn to Think about Contingency Planning which has helped me in a lot of situations because what you expect to happen usually doesn't happen and you have to take an alternate course of action.


----------



## CCarncross

richierich said:


> Just tape it down temporarily.
> 
> What is this about being a Raging Pessimist??? Did you join the "Mike Greer Fanclub"???


BAZZINGA!


----------



## davel

I put the drive on top to boot it once for the format so the cables would reach with little effort and it was pretty sturdy. The original drive was not powered. Figuring I would have to take both out to do the transfer. That step is not the important one, it can be removed.

Edit: Yeah, sorry. I did an upgrade saving my old recordings, if you just nix the old drive it isn't needed. Clarified my original instructions.


----------



## oldvanhalenrules

Zip ties are the fix to the HR24-200 upgrade issue. Tighten them well and they're essentially as secure as screws. Thankfully, the hard drive support cage has those extra holes to thread through. There is enough clearance between the thicker HDD and the components underneath, too. I swapped out the Pipeline for a WD 2TB EVDS drive and had no issues.

Many thanks for the credit card suggestion for managing the case latches. I can't believe how simple that process was.


----------



## RussN

How about pictures of an HR24-500?


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> Being a Computer Programmer/Consultant I had to learn to Think about Contingency Planning which has helped me in a lot of situations because what you expect to happen usually doesn't happen and you have to take an alternate course of action.


A good mantra.

I think the overall lesson with this practice is to take your time, plan you moves, have the right tools, and execute the steps carefully.

One thing that continues to amaze me is the number of folks doing this, as there are not that many *owned* devices out in the field (99% leased), and of course, opening up a unit violates the warranty - which may result in the end user having to pay full retail some time in the future for the device if it ever needs service, replacement, or it has to be returned.

I know that gets repeated, but it is a risk that alot of folks don't realize until its too late.


----------



## Richierich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> One thing that continues to amaze me is the number of folks doing this, as there are not that many *owned* devices out in the field (99% leased), and of course, opening up a unit violates the warranty - which may result in the end user having to pay full retail some time in the future for the device if it ever needs service, replacement, or it has to be returned.


That is why I go to Great Lengths to Buy My Owned Directv DVRs so I can Replace the Internal Hard Drive and have a Quieter less Obtrusive Looking DVR without Voiding the TOS Agreement. Also, I can take a couple of them in my RV without any problems.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> That is why I go to Great Lengths to Buy My Owned Directv DVRs so I can Replace the Internal Hard Drive and have a Quieter less Obtrusive Looking DVR without Voiding the TOS Agreement.


Good move.

Boy...I bet somebody got alot of upgrade practice with all those HD DVRs there.


----------



## Richierich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Good move.
> 
> Boy...I bet somebody got alot of upgrade practice with all those HD DVRs there.


Yes, I did get a lot of Upgrade Practice with all of the Upgrading of my DVRs and I also had a Friend help me and I had to Teach him how to do it so he was very happy that I helped educate him about how to Replace the Internal Drive effortlessly!!!

He is Forever Indebted To Me For That Education!!!

Hey, it's the least I could do for someone who draws Funny Pictures of me and ridicules me in the midst of my peers here at DBSTALK.COM, the Greatest Digital Broadcast Satellite Forum on Planet Earth!!!


----------



## Rich

CCarncross said:


> BAZZINGA!


Mike's anything but a pessimist. Think about what he did: He leased three 22-100s and got burned, then, when the 24-500s came out he leased three of them. If that's not optimism, I'll kiss your BAZZINGA! :lol:

Rich


----------



## Rich

davel said:


> I put the drive on top to boot it once for the format so the cables would reach with little effort and it was pretty sturdy. The original drive was not powered. Figuring I would have to take both out to do the transfer. That step is not the important one, it can be removed.
> 
> Edit: Yeah, sorry. I did an upgrade saving my old recordings, if you just nix the old drive it isn't needed. Clarified my original instructions.


I was just curious, all I could see was getting distracted and knocking the new HDD onto the motherboard. That's the kind of luck I have. 

Rich


----------



## Rich

oldvanhalenrules said:


> Zip ties are the fix to the HR24-200 upgrade issue. Tighten them well and they're essentially as secure as screws. Thankfully, the hard drive support cage has those extra holes to thread through. There is enough clearance between the thicker HDD and the components underneath, too. I swapped out the Pipeline for a WD 2TB EVDS drive and had no issues.
> 
> Many thanks for the credit card suggestion for managing the case latches. I can't believe how simple that process was.


Now there's an answer I could have used a few months ago! Great idea! But my 200 bit the dust and was replaced with a 500. I think the 2TB HDD I have in a TT docking station on the 500 now will fit into the 500 without any problem, if everything I've read is correct.

Still a great idea, tho. Kudos!

Rich


----------



## Rich

RussN said:


> How about pictures of an HR24-500?


They are on the forum, you just have to search for them. The "First Look" shows the interior of the 500s.

Rich


----------



## Mike Greer

rich584 said:


> Mike's anything but a pessimist. Think about what he did: He leased three 22-100s and got burned, then, when the 24-500s came out he leased three of them. If that's not optimism, I'll kiss your BAZZINGA! :lol:
> 
> Rich


Geez Rich - I think that makes me a slow learner!


----------



## Richierich

Mike Greer said:


> Geez Rich - I think that makes me a slow learner!


Maybe you are an Optimistic Slow Learner who is a Pessimist!!! 

Or Just A Glutton For Punishment!!! :lol:


----------



## davel

hdtvfan0001 said:


> One thing that continues to amaze me is the number of folks doing this, as there are not that many *owned* devices out in the field (99% leased), and of course, opening up a unit violates the warranty - which may result in the end user having to pay full retail some time in the future for the device if it ever needs service, replacement, or it has to be returned.


Noted ad nauseam all over the forums, in this thread at least 4 times. Give it a rest.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

davel said:


> Noted ad nauseam all over the forums, in this thread at least 4 times. Give it a rest.


As evidenced over and over...many folks don't read but a few posts here and there when they require assistance - therefore providing useful information they might miss is considered *help*.

You might just be surprised how many posters indicate "I wish somebody would have told me before I did this...". Helping is a good thing. Sorry you don't feel that way.


----------



## Rich

Mike Greer said:


> Geez Rich - I think that makes me a slow learner!


Nah, just an unlucky optimist. Meant no offense, as usual. 

Rich


----------



## Rich

davel said:


> Noted ad nauseam all over the forums, in this thread at least 4 times. Give it a rest.


It deserves to be said occasionally. I think.

Rich


----------



## CCarncross

rich584 said:


> It deserves to be said occasionally. I think.
> 
> Rich


+1


----------



## Richierich

davel said:


> Noted ad nauseam all over the forums, in this thread at least 4 times. Give it a rest.


Dave if you don't need the Information just go on to the next post and leave it for those who might find it helpful or informative.

How does that hurt you???


----------



## davel

richierich said:


> Dave if you don't need the Information just go on to the next post and leave it for those who might find it helpful or informative.
> 
> How does that hurt you???


You mean like of the pages and pages of junk (this post included) in this thread. If you just broke it down to actually replacing a drive in an hr-24 you would have about 1 page. You wonder why people don't read 9 page threads? Because 8 pages are OT or unrelated babble.


----------



## uscpsycho

This thread has been most informative.

I'm about to get an HR24 and wanted to upgrade it myself rather than pay Weaknees their ridiculously inflated prices ($250 more for 2TB than for 750GB). However, it's going to be a leased DVR and upgrading myself is frowned upon.

Where are you guys getting owned units? I looked on eBay and saw only one for $400+. You guys are paying that much just to be able to upgrade the drives???

So I'm thinking I'll just go the esata route. But seems like that is not a reliable solution? My plan was to drop a 2TB drive into an enclosure, plug it in and be good to go. Is the failure rate of using an external drive really as high as you guys make it sound in this thread???


----------



## matt

uscpsycho said:


> This thread has been most informative.
> 
> I'm about to get an HR24 and wanted to upgrade it myself rather than pay Weaknees their ridiculously inflated prices ($250 more for 2TB than for 750GB). However, it's going to be a leased DVR and upgrading myself is frowned upon.
> 
> Where are you guys getting owned units? I looked on eBay and saw only one for $400+. You guys are paying that much just to be able to upgrade the drives???
> 
> So I'm thinking I'll just go the esata route. But seems like that is not a reliable solution? My plan was to drop a 2TB drive into an enclosure, plug it in and be good to go. Is the failure rate of using an external drive really as high as you guys make it sound in this thread???


They often come up for sale on here. Especially on Wednesdays after Christmas. 

ebay is another good route, but as you saw, they bring more than the other models.


----------



## Richierich

uscpsycho said:


> This thread has been most informative.
> 
> I'm about to get an HR24 and wanted to upgrade it myself rather than pay Weaknees their ridiculously inflated prices ($250 more for 2TB than for 750GB). However, it's going to be a leased DVR and upgrading myself is frowned upon.
> 
> Where are you guys getting owned units? I looked on eBay and saw only one for $400+. You guys are paying that much just to be able to upgrade the drives???


Well, glad to see that someone agrees with me about Weaknees being ridiculous in their Prices.

It is getting harder and harder to buy HR24s on Ebay due to a Fiasco awhile back so Directv is tightening the screws on it's employees with respect to selling their DVRs to the General Public.


----------



## sigma1914

$400+ for an owned HR24? Geez...I may sell mine if I need money.


----------



## uscpsycho

richierich said:


> Well, glad to see that someone agrees with me about Weaknees being ridiculous in their Prices.
> 
> It is getting harder and harder to buy HR24s on Ebay due to a Fiasco awhile back so Directv is tightening the screws on it's employees with respect to selling their DVRs to the General Public.


There are intelligent & informed people who think Weaknees' prices are reasonable???? Come on... :nono:

Since their markup on high capacity drives is so outrageous I wonder if they'd agree to install a 2TB that I supply for their basic upgrade price... I am local.


----------



## Rich

uscpsycho said:


> This thread has been most informative.
> 
> I'm about to get an HR24 and wanted to upgrade it myself rather than pay Weaknees their ridiculously inflated prices ($250 more for 2TB than for 750GB). However, it's going to be a leased DVR and upgrading myself is frowned upon.


Frowned upon, indeed. Not a good thing to talk about on the open forum.



> Where are you guys getting owned units? I looked on eBay and saw only one for $400+. You guys are paying that much just to be able to upgrade the drives???


No. The most I ever paid for a 20-700, my weapon of choice, was about $250 with the $20 fee and shipping added in. I've bought them as low as $130, but then the access card and shipping added about $35 to that price.



> So I'm thinking I'll just go the esata route. But seems like that is not a reliable solution? My plan was to drop a 2TB drive into an enclosure, plug it in and be good to go. Is the failure rate of using an external drive really as high as you guys make it sound in this thread???


Worst thing that will happen with an external device is that the device will fail. Won't have any bearing on your HDD, you'll just have to get a new device to hold the HDD. You won't lose any recordings.

You might do well to consider an Antec MX-1 or a Thermaltake docking station. Both work with all the HRs, as far as I know, and both are very reliable. I prefer the docking stations. Both are for sale on amazon.com and other sites. We recommend the WD EVDS or EADS HDDs. I prefer the EADS. But the EVDS is a steady, reliable HDD, too. Again, amazon.com has them for sale as do other sites.

Rich


----------



## Rich

uscpsycho said:


> There are intelligent & informed people who think Weaknees' prices are reasonable???? Come on... :nono:


They do a good business, make a lot of money. Most people never consider doing the upgrade themselves.



> Since their markup on high capacity drives is so outrageous I wonder if they'd agree to install a 2TB that I supply for their basic upgrade price... I am local.


I doubt that.

Rich


----------



## Richierich

uscpsycho said:


> There are intelligent & informed people who think Weaknees' prices are reasonable???? Come on... :nono:
> 
> Since their markup on high capacity drives is so outrageous I wonder if they'd agree to install a 2TB that I supply for their basic upgrade price... I am local.


Well, if you live there you could always go by and Chat with them about it but they are in Business to make Money and being able to mark up the parts is part of that business of making Money or Profit.


----------



## Rich

richierich said:


> Well, if you live there you could always go by and Chat with them about it but they are in Business to make Money and being able to mark up the parts is part of that business of making Money or Profit.


Can't really blame them for high prices. If nobody bought stuff at their prices, they'd lower them. Look how well the TenBox did. They didn't lower their prices until it was too late.

Rich


----------



## uscpsycho

matt1124 said:


> 7) put in your new drive and reverse steps. Note, the 2TB drive was thicker than the 500MB drive, so I had to remove the piece of foam that was sandwiched between the 500MB drive and the drive enclosure.


On an owned HR24 is there any harm in leaving the foam in there, squeezing it between a 2TB drive and the enclosure?


----------



## uscpsycho

richierich said:


> Well, if you live there you could always go by and Chat with them about it but they are in Business to make Money and being able to mark up the parts is part of that business of making Money or Profit.


They said if I brought my own drive they'd install it for $125.


----------



## Richierich

uscpsycho said:


> On an owned HR24 is there any harm in leaving the foam in there, squeezing it between a 2TB drive and the enclosure?


As long as it fits okay but I would like the see the hard drive breathe or get air as much as possible so consider that. It's not like the DVR will be in an RV or a vehicle that is moving so you really don't need to secure it that much.


----------



## Richierich

rich584 said:


> Can't really blame them for high prices. If nobody bought stuff at their prices, they'd lower them. Look how well the TenBox did. They didn't lower their prices until it was too late.
> 
> Rich


Weaknees is for people with lots of Disposable Income who feel they can't do the Upgrade or do not want to do the Upgrade.

For the Average Joe Sixpack I would think they would be more inclined to do the install theirself especially if they have replaced a hard drive in a PC.

I had them Upgrade my HR10-250s way back when but they also copied the Recordings from the Old Drive to the New Drive which I didn't how to do so I let them do it.


----------



## Rich

uscpsycho said:


> On an owned HR24 is there any harm in leaving the foam in there, squeezing it between a 2TB drive and the enclosure?


What's that foam made out of? There is a "Right to know" law that says that we have the right to know of any materials that could be dangerous. If that foam overheats and releases vapors, what exactly will happen? The 24s should come with an MSDS sheet that explains fully what those vapors are.

If they had a warehouse full of those foam pads and a fire occurred, the first thing a fireman would ask for is the MSDS data for those pads. If it wasn't produced they could just let the warehouse burn to the ground.

Rich


----------



## Rich

uscpsycho said:


> They said if I brought my own drive they'd install it for $125.


That's a fifteen minute job for them. That works out to $500 a hour for labor. For someone that's never done it, it might take an hour. It's really simple when you know how to do it.

Rich


----------



## hdtvfan0001

rich584 said:


> That's a fifteen minute job for them. That works out to $500 a hour for labor. For someone that's never done it, it might take an hour. It's really simple when you know how to do it.
> 
> Rich


12 minute jobs done here..multiple times...


----------



## Richierich

rich584 said:


> That's a fifteen minute job for them. That works out to $500 a hour for labor. For someone that's never done it, it might take an hour. It's really simple when you know how to do it.
> 
> Rich


Yeah, I think it took me 10 minutes to Replace the Hard Drive in my HR24-500 as long as you have some old credit cards to cut up and put under the clips as you unhinge them and then pop off the lid and take out the drive, pop the new drive in and put the lid on (which takes about 30 seconds). Very Easy.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> Yeah, I think it took me 10 minutes to Replace the Hard Drive in my HR24-500 as long as you have some old credit cards to cut up and put under the clips as you unhinge them and then pop off the lid and take out the drive, pop the new drive in and put the lid on (which takes about 30 seconds). Very Easy.


You forgot to mention it didn't work the first time you did that... !rolling

Details....details... :lol:


----------



## Richierich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> You forgot to mention it didn't work the first time you did that... !rolling
> 
> Details....details... :lol:


Well, that was because my Friend who helped me is a Klutz and is all Thumbs but a Really Nice Guy!!! :lol:


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> Well, that was because my Friend who helped me is a *Klutsch* and is all Thumbs but a Really Nice Guy!!! :lol:


Bet he knows how to spell *Klutz* though... :lol:


----------



## Rich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> 12 minute jobs done here..multiple times...


That gets their hourly labor charge up to $625 an hour. :lol:

Rich


----------



## hdtvfan0001

rich584 said:


> That gets their hourly labor charge up to $625 an hour. :lol:
> 
> Rich


Wait until RichieRich gets the bill.... !rolling


----------



## fluffybear

richierich said:


> Yeah, I think it took me 10 minutes to Replace the Hard Drive in my HR24-500 as long as you have some old credit cards to cut up and put under the clips as you unhinge them and then pop off the lid and take out the drive, pop the new drive in and put the lid on (which takes about 30 seconds). Very Easy.


Dealing with those clips has to be the hardest part of the upgrade process. I'll have to try cut up credit cards next time, I typically use the four letter words method :lol:


----------



## Rich

fluffybear said:


> Dealing with those clips has to be the hardest part of the upgrade process. I'll have to try cut up credit cards next time, I typically use the four letter words method :lol:


If you don't use the credit cards, how could you possibly get the thing apart? It becomes, at least, a two man job.

Rich


----------



## hdtvfan0001

rich584 said:


> If you don't use the credit cards, how could you possibly get the thing apart? It becomes, at least, a two man job.
> 
> Rich


Uh...it takes all of 30 seconds to get the cover part done safely if one knows the proper way to do it...no credit cards were used on the multiple units that received the HD surgery here.


----------



## Richierich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Uh...it takes all of 30 seconds to get the cover part done safely if one knows the proper way to do it...no credit cards were used on the multiple units that received the HD surgery here.


Yes, you just have to keep upward pressure on the Lid so the Clips don't Slip back down into the Groove that was holding it in place originally.

The Guy who showed me how is Really Smart and he took the lid off in about 2 minutes.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

rich584 said:


> If you don't use the credit cards, how could you possibly get the thing apart? It becomes, at least, a two man job.
> 
> Rich


I've found that it's not really that difficult. I used a spudger to disengage the two latches on one side, hole the case so they don't re-engage, and then do the other side. Takes less then a minute.

Mike


----------



## fluffybear

richierich said:


> Yes, you just have to keep upward pressure on the Lid so the Clips don't Slip back down into the Groove that was holding it in place originally.
> 
> The Guy who showed me how is Really Smart and he took the lid off in about 2 minutes.


This is pretty much how I have done it. 
I don't have that much practice at taking my owned HRxx units apart (not as muh as I had with my Tivo units) and probably spend about 5 minutes fooling with the clips.


----------



## sigma1914

Who wants to copy my hard drive to a 2TB and drop it in my owned 24? :lol:


----------



## Rich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Uh...it takes all of 30 seconds to get the cover part done safely if one knows the proper way to do it...no credit cards were used on the multiple units that received the HD surgery here.


I've done it both ways. I keep strips of credit cards in my toolkit. It is just easier. I think.

Rich


----------



## Rich

sigma1914 said:


> Who wants to copy my hard drive to a 2TB and drop it in my owned 24? :lol:


If it's not a 24-200, I'll be happy to do it for you, just cover the shipping back and forth.

Rich


----------



## uscpsycho

richierich said:


> As long as it fits okay but I would like the see the hard drive breathe or get air as much as possible so consider that. It's not like the DVR will be in an RV or a vehicle that is moving so you really don't need to secure it that much.


I've decided to remove the foam. The foam is packed in there pretty tight, too dense for any air to circulate on the side of the drive pressing against it.

Sounds like you've done quite a few of these, what do you usually do with the foam?



richierich said:


> Weaknees is for people with lots of Disposable Income who feel they can't do the Upgrade or do not want to do the Upgrade.
> 
> For the Average Joe Sixpack I would think they would be more inclined to do the install theirself especially if they have replaced a hard drive in a PC.
> 
> I had them Upgrade my HR10-250s way back when but they also copied the Recordings from the Old Drive to the New Drive which I didn't how to do so I let them do it.


Yes and no.

Yes, Weaknees is definitely for people with disposable income. A friend of mine was on the verge of buying one of their external hard drives. Have you seen the prices on those things :eek2: She didn't realize you could plug in any old esata hard drive. Doesn't even know what esata is. Just assumes if you want higher capacity you have to buy it through weaknees.

So average Joe Sixpack may not even know they can do this on their own. But given the level of education/intelligence of Joe Sixpack in America I would not say this is a Joe Sixpack job. Joe Sixpack barely understands how to work their computer/microwave/cellphone/etc. This hard drive upgrade is easy for someone who's cracked open their PC case a time or two and knows how the cables plug/unplug, knows how to install a hard drive, etc. If you've never done these things before (Joe Sixpack) good luck!



rich584 said:


> What's that foam made out of? There is a "Right to know" law that says that we have the right to know of any materials that could be dangerous. If that foam overheats and releases vapors, what exactly will happen? The 24s should come with an MSDS sheet that explains fully what those vapors are.
> 
> If they had a warehouse full of those foam pads and a fire occurred, the first thing a fireman would ask for is the MSDS data for those pads. If it wasn't produced they could just let the warehouse burn to the ground.
> 
> Rich


I am calling it foam because the previous guy called it foam. So just to use consistent terminology. But foam is not a good name for it. It's a sponge. I don't know what it's made of, it's made of the same thing sponges are made out of because it _is_ a sponge.

Again, leaving the foam/sponge in there with a 2TB drive it's packed in very densely so there's no room for air to circulate on that side of the drive.



rich584 said:


> That's a fifteen minute job for them. That works out to $500 a hour for labor. For someone that's never done it, it might take an hour. It's really simple when you know how to do it.
> 
> Rich


Yeah, it probably took me an hour. But that's because one I had all six of the side clips disengaged I couldn't for the life of me figure out how to get the lid off. Intuitively I wanted to pull the case off from the front and just couldn't figure out how to do that. After quite a bit of frustration I discovered that you lift from the back and then the whole thing comes apart.


----------



## uscpsycho

uscpsycho said:


> I've decided to remove the foam. The foam is packed in there pretty tight, too dense for any air to circulate on the side of the drive pressing against it.


Hmm... Now I'm not so sure about this.

I mean, when you install a hard drive in a PC one side is typically pressed up against metal or plastic. And with multiple drives they're almost stacked up against each other. So the drives doesn't necessarily need "air to breathe."

However, this foam/sponge is compressed so much that it's placing a fair amount of pressure against the drive, it's not just flush with the drive like a hard drive cage would be. The constant pressure can't be good. I think I just talked myself back into removing it. I mean there is no potential harm in leaving space above and below the drive so I should err on the side of caution.


----------



## Richierich

Glad you got it done and I should have taken the time to tell you to lift it up and then backwards to get the Lid off of the Case but once you have done it you will be able to do it much easier and quicker then next time as you just need the knowledge of how to do it to make it a snap.


----------



## Rich

uscpsycho said:


> Hmm... Now I'm not so sure about this.
> 
> I mean, when you install a hard drive in a PC one side is typically pressed up against metal or plastic. And with multiple drives they're almost stacked up against each other. So the drives doesn't necessarily need "air to breathe."
> 
> However, this foam/sponge is compressed so much that it's placing a fair amount of pressure against the drive, it's not just flush with the drive like a hard drive cage would be. The constant pressure can't be good. I think I just talked myself back into removing it. I mean there is no potential harm in leaving space above and below the drive so I should err on the side of caution.


It's like milk: When in doubt, throw it out. One thing you can be certain of: It's not sponge, it's a spongy material made out of God knows what. Having spent a lifetime (well, it sure seemed like a lifetime) in the chemical and plastics industry, I don't trust things like that.

Rich


----------



## hdtvfan0001

uscpsycho said:


> Hmm... Now I'm not so sure about this.
> 
> However, this foam/sponge is compressed so much that it's placing a fair amount of pressure against the drive, it's not just flush with the drive like a hard drive cage would be.


Hmmm...wonder what happens if that foam is specifically designed to serve a purpose with the original drive...and a replacement drive requires the same thing. Vibration buffer?

I'd never consider installing a replacement drive that has to be modified from the original install size/location/method....but that's just me.

I've seen replacement drives fit just fine with the foam.


----------



## P Smith

If you know a purpose of the 'sponge' you could do what is needs to do with or without it. 
Knowledge is the power.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Hmmm...wonder what happens if that foam is specifically designed to serve a purpose with the original drive...and a replacement drive requires the same thing. Vibration buffer?
> 
> I'd never consider installing a replacement drive that has to be modified from the original install size/location/method....but that's just me.
> 
> I've seen replacement drives fit just fine with the foam.


I've always thought it was for vibrational and noise dampening...of course I've been wrong before. :lol:

Mike


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Mike Bertelson said:


> I've always thought it was for vibrational and noise dampening...of course I've been wrong before. :lol:
> 
> Mike


That was my contention...and we can't possible both be wrong together.... !rolling


----------



## uscpsycho

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Hmmm...wonder what happens if that foam is specifically designed to serve a purpose with the original drive...and a replacement drive requires the same thing. Vibration buffer?
> 
> I'd never consider installing a replacement drive that has to be modified from the original install size/location/method....but that's just me.
> 
> I've seen replacement drives fit just fine with the foam.


Yes, of course the foam serves a purpose with the original drive or it wouldn't be there.

Now, does the replacement drive "require" the same thing? I would argue no it is not required. It's a hard drive and most hard drives work perfectly fine without a foamy sponge pressed against them. There could be benefits in some applications like a DVR, but "required?" I think not...

Have you seen 2TB replacement drives that fit just fine with the foam? If so what kind?



Mike Bertelson said:


> I've always thought it was for vibrational and noise dampening...of course I've been wrong before. :lol:
> 
> Mike


I agree with this. They've taken great care to minimize vibration and dampen noise in the DVR. The hard drive is supported by rubber plugs which I'm certain are for minimizing vibration & noise. And it seems like a logical conclusion that foam's purpose is the same.

We could be wrong, it may have some other purpose. But is there any harm in running the DVR without the foam? Almost certainly not. Is there any harm in jamming it in between the drive and the cage? Possibly. I'll err on the side of caution here.

I'm surprised this hasn't been discussed before as it seems any 2TB upgrade would run into this problem of what to do with the foam...


----------



## Mike Bertelson

hdtvfan0001 said:


> That was my contention...and we can't possible both be wrong together.... !rolling


We definitely both can't be wrong about the same thing at the same time.


----------



## Richierich

I would save the padding in case I had to replace it prior to sending it back for a Replacement along with the Original Drive.


----------



## Richierich

Mike Bertelson said:


> I've always thought it was for vibrational and noise dampening...of course I've been wrong before. :lol:
> 
> Mike


I was thinking the same thing as they have had problems in the past with noise from the drives and this would help keep it from vibrating and rattling around and perhaps increase the life of the drive.


----------



## uscpsycho

richierich said:


> I would save the padding in case I had to replace it prior to sending it back for a Replacement along with the Original Drive.


Yeah, I'm going to keep it but by the time I have to send this back I won't for the life of me remember where "that damn sponge" came from. LOL If I don't send it back with the foam I doubt they'd ever notice it was missing. And if they do I'll just plead ignorance, it's possible it was left out in manufacturing.



richierich said:


> I was thinking the same thing as they have had problems in the past with noise from the drives and this would help keep it from vibrating and rattling around and perhaps increase the life of the drive.


If every other drive in the world survives without foam I can't imagine not having foam would reduce the life of the drive.

As it is the drive is suspended by four rubber plugs and is not in contact with any other surface. It's not going to rattle or vibrate against anything. The more I think about it the more I believe the foam is there to dampen the noise that is normally made by the hard drive. I can tell you the drive in my HR20 makes an annoying amount of noise. If this drive is just as loud I may consider replacing the foam.


----------



## Richierich

uscpsycho said:


> Yeah, I'm going to keep it but by the time I have to send this back I won't for the life of me remember where "that damn sponge" came from. LOL If I don't send it back with the foam I doubt they'd ever notice it was missing. And if they do I'll just plead ignorance, it's possible it was left out in manufacturing.


I put my hard drive in a Zip Loc Bag and then use a Sharpie to note which DVR it came from with the RID # of that DVR in case I need to take out the replacement drive because of failure. However, since I Own mine I would just put the original back in and if it works go buy another larger drive (2 TB) and then put that in the DVR and I'm back in business.

Awhile back there were tons of posts about drives thrashing and making an inordinate amount of noise. So maybe that is why they added that foam padding.


----------



## davel

As far as needing special tools, I used 2 small screwdrivers in my upgrade pictures, that was it! 

As far as directv caring what you send back, yeah right! I know of people that have sent back upgraded units when the unit died and didn't bother to replace the 750gb back with the 320gb that came with it because the time wasn't worth it. If they "approve" weekknees for upgrades good luck ever proving anything. If they were smart they would just design a dvr with a slide in drive to save the hassle.


----------



## Richierich

davel said:


> If they were smart they would just design a dvr with a slide in drive to save the hassle.


Now That Is A Terrific Idea!!!

I have a PC with an External Drive Bay and you just slide the External Drive in and you are Good To Go!!!


----------



## P Smith

uscpsycho said:


> ...If every other drive in the world survives without foam I can't imagine not having foam would reduce the life of the drive.
> ...


It's definitely trade-off from engineering stand point, while it absorbing vibration/reduce noise the 'sponge' degrade air convection around the drive ie increasing internal temperature eg reduce life of the drive.


----------



## Richierich

P Smith said:


> It's definitely trade-off from engineering stand point, while it absorbing vibration/reduce noise the 'sponge' degrade air convection around the drive ie increasing internal temperature eg reduce life of the drive.


That was my point as Heat is the Number One Enemy of a Hard Drive!!!


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> That was my point as Heat is the Number One Enemy of a Hard Drive!!!


Well....maybe #2.....right after that dropping incident you had. !rolling


----------



## Richierich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Well....maybe #2.....right after that dropping incident you had. !rolling


Yes, but the hard drive was wrapped in Foam Padding so it didn't hurt the hard drive at all.


----------



## Rich

I think you've got a pretty good handle on the sponge issue. Go with your gut.

Rich



uscpsycho said:


> Yes, of course the foam serves a purpose with the original drive or it wouldn't be there.
> 
> Now, does the replacement drive "require" the same thing? I would argue no it is not required. It's a hard drive and most hard drives work perfectly fine without a foamy sponge pressed against them. There could be benefits in some applications like a DVR, but "required?" I think not...
> 
> Have you seen 2TB replacement drives that fit just fine with the foam? If so what kind?
> 
> I agree with this. They've taken great care to minimize vibration and dampen noise in the DVR. The hard drive is supported by rubber plugs which I'm certain are for minimizing vibration & noise. And it seems like a logical conclusion that foam's purpose is the same.
> 
> We could be wrong, it may have some other purpose. But is there any harm in running the DVR without the foam? Almost certainly not. Is there any harm in jamming it in between the drive and the cage? Possibly. I'll err on the side of caution here.
> 
> I'm surprised this hasn't been discussed before as it seems any 2TB upgrade would run into this problem of what to do with the foam...


----------



## Rich

richierich said:


> I put my hard drive in a Zip Loc Bag and then use a Sharpie to note which DVR it came from with the RID # of that DVR in case I need to take out the replacement drive because of failure. However, since I Own mine I would just put the original back in and if it works go buy another larger drive (2 TB) and then put that in the DVR and I'm back in business.
> 
> Awhile back there were tons of posts about drives thrashing and making an inordinate amount of noise. So maybe that is why they added that foam padding.


The first "spongeworthy" HRs were the 20-100s, long before we had the thrashing problems.

Rich


----------



## hdtvfan0001

uscpsycho said:


> Yes, of course the foam serves a purpose with the original drive or it wouldn't be there.
> 
> Have you seen 2TB replacement drives that fit just fine with the foam? If so what kind?


Hitachi drives are a bit thinner, and work very, very well here now for some time. More important...the HR24-100, HR24-200, and HR24-500 models each have some slight variations on how the drives are mounted inside, so the "foam issue" does not come into play the same way in all 3 models. I read more about the -200 foam variation than the other two models.


> They've taken great care to minimize vibration and dampen noise in the DVR. The hard drive is supported by rubber plugs which I'm certain are for minimizing vibration & noise. And it seems like a logical conclusion that foam's purpose is the same.
> 
> I'm surprised this hasn't been discussed before as it seems any 2TB upgrade would run into this problem of what to do with the foam...


Agree....noise reduction/vibration control are the main purposes for the drive mount techniques used...eliminate any one of the methods...and one might think it defeats the intended purpose/results as well.


----------



## Rich

P Smith said:


> It's definitely trade-off from engineering stand point, while it absorbing vibration/reduce noise the 'sponge' degrade air convection around the drive ie increasing internal temperature eg reduce life of the drive.


Agree, I do. Also, heat and foam padding don't usually get along too well.

Rich


----------



## Richierich

rich584 said:


> The first "spongeworthy" HRs were the 20-100s, long before we had the thrashing problems.
> 
> Rich


Ah, so you have Watched "Seinfeld" a time or two!!! The "Spongeworthy" Episode was indeed Funny!!! :lol:


----------



## hdtvfan0001

rich584 said:


> Agree, I do. Also, heat and foam padding don't usually get along too well.
> 
> Rich


If we're talking about extreme heat...sure. But that's not the case here, and the foam is not really any kind of issue.

The drives in the HR24 series are "green" and give off less heat than most previous HD DVR models they've released.

The HD DVR (side to side) ventilation is very good in at least 2 of the 3 HR24 models (HR24-100 and HR24-200). I've seen the foam mounting done in some desktop PC's as well - no problem.

The -500 model has back-exit cooling, which seems to have slightly less outward air flow than the other two.


----------



## Richierich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> If we're talking about extreme heat...sure. But that's not the case here, and the foam is not really any kind of issue.
> 
> The drives in the HR24 series are "green" and give off less heat than most previous HD DVR models they've released.
> 
> The HD DVR (side to side) ventilation is very good in at least 2 of the 3 HR24 models (HR24-100 and HR24-200). I've seen the foam mounting done in some desktop PC's as well - no problem.
> 
> The -500 model has back-exit cooling, which seems to have slightly less outward air flow than the other two.


Sounds like you just might be some kind of Hard Drive/DVR Expert!!!


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> Sounds like you just might be some kind of Hard Drive/DVR Expert!!!


Not really....just have seen many of them "naked". 

The evolution of how hard drives are mounted has been interesting....starting with the HR20 series, then HR21's, etc. It's obvious the specs have changed and improved over time based on field results (vibration noise being one of the more common past "issues" in some models back in the olden days).


----------



## Rich

richierich said:


> Ah, so you have Watched "Seinfeld" a time or two!!! The "Spongeworthy" Episode was indeed Funny!!! :lol:


Yup, as soon as I finish watching all the CSIs on NetFlix, I'm gonna watch Seinfeld from start to finish on NF. A friend of mine gave me a complete set that he had compiled from various channels and had sorted them by date, but the DVDs were of poor quality and I would like to watch them on a better platform.

Rich


----------



## Rich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Not really....just have seen many of them "naked".
> 
> The evolution of how hard drives are mounted has been interesting....starting with the HR20 series, then HR21's, etc. It's obvious the specs have changed and improved over time based on field results (vibration noise being one of the more common past "issues" in some models back in the olden days).


Out of all the HRs that I've had, only a couple 20-700s actually had HDD vibration and I've still got one leased 20-700 that occasionally does it. A quick swat calms it down quite nicely. :lol:

Rich


----------



## hdtvfan0001

rich584 said:


> A quick swat calms it down quite nicely. :lol:




I think I've read a few other folks used that same technique. :lol:


----------



## Richierich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Not really....just have seen many of them "naked".
> 
> The evolution of how hard drives are mounted has been interesting....starting with the HR20 series, then HR21's, etc. It's obvious the specs have changed and improved over time based on field results (vibration noise being one of the more common past "issues" in some models back in the olden days).


Ah But you did stay at a Holiday Inn Express once, didn't you???

That's why you know so much about drives and DVRs!!!


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> Ah But you did stay at a Holiday Inn Express once, didn't you???
> 
> That's why you know so much about drives and DVRs!!!


2008- 2011 Platinum member actually...hmmm.... :lol:


----------



## bobcamp1

hdtvfan0001 said:


> If we're talking about extreme heat...sure. But that's not the case here, and the foam is not really any kind of issue.
> 
> The drives in the HR24 series are "green" and give off less heat than most previous HD DVR models they've released.
> 
> The HD DVR (side to side) ventilation is very good in at least 2 of the 3 HR24 models (HR24-100 and HR24-200). I've seen the foam mounting done in some desktop PC's as well - no problem.
> 
> The -500 model has back-exit cooling, which seems to have slightly less outward air flow than the other two.


As a former hard drive expert, who has also seen some hard drives buck naked, shock/vibration is the #1 killer of hard drives. There are moving parts that have to move with extreme precision, and they don't like it at all when they are budged, especially when powered on.

Heat is interesting. It is actually good for the hard drive up until around 60 deg. C, but then reliability rapidly drops off after that. So the upper temp. listed in the datasheet is 55 C just to be safe.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

bobcamp1 said:


> As a former hard drive expert, who has also seen some hard drives buck naked, shock/vibration is the #1 killer of hard drives. There are moving parts that have to move with extreme precision, and they don't like it at all when they are budged, especially when powered on.
> 
> Heat is interesting. It is actually good for the hard drive up until around 60 deg. C, but then reliability rapidly drops off after that. So the upper temp. listed in the datasheet is 55 C just to be safe.


Totally agree on both points.

In various previous threads...vibration noise from the drives, especially the HR20 units which has very rigid mount setups...ended up being reported with "loud noises". The new techniques used in the HR24 series are a major improvement along those lines.

Rubber grommets, softer mount hardware, foam, and other things (including newer/better/quieter drives) have virtually silenced those side effects in the new units.


----------



## Rich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I think I've read a few other folks used that same technique. :lol:


Well, it works and I'm certainly not gonna give up a functioning HR when a simple swat of the hand solves the problem. 

Rich


----------



## Richierich

bobcamp1 said:


> As a former hard drive expert, who has also seen some hard drives buck naked, shock/vibration is the #1 killer of hard drives. There are moving parts that have to move with extreme precision, and they don't like it at all when they are budged, especially when powered on.
> 
> Heat is interesting. It is actually good for the hard drive up until around 60 deg. C, but then reliability rapidly drops off after that. So the upper temp. listed in the datasheet is 55 C just to be safe.


Totally Agree but my DVRs don't move about. They stay put and I never move them so unless you would have one in an RV I wouldn't think that you would have that much Vibration.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

rich584 said:


> Well, it works and I'm certainly not gonna give up a functioning HR when a simple swat of the hand solves the problem.
> 
> Rich


I read somewhere that was called the Rex Ryan technique. :eek2::lol:


richierich said:


> Totally Agree but my DVRs don't move about. They stay put and I never move them so unless you would have one in an RV I wouldn't think that you would have that much Vibration.


Since the vibration can come from loose mounting components, as well as vibration-related noise from the drive itself...DVR's can sit in a location and still "give off vibration noise"....as one specific poster (who will remain nameless) at DBSTalk has indicated perhaps 50 times in the past. That observation was accurate...it's the cure that varies.


----------



## P Smith

bobcamp1 said:


> As a former hard drive expert, who has also seen some hard drives buck naked, shock/vibration is the #1 killer of hard drives. There are moving parts that have to move with extreme precision, and they don't like it at all when they are budged, especially when powered on.
> 
> Heat is interesting. It is actually good for the hard drive up until around 60 deg. C, but then reliability rapidly drops off after that. So the upper temp. listed in the datasheet is 55 C just to be safe.


That's external influence, while we're talking about the 'sponge' blocking heat dissipation from the drive. Strictly speaking, the sponge will not protect from excessive external shock/vibrations, it just dampening nose/HDD vibration of the HDD itself. And definitely it will "help" raising HDD internal temp.


----------



## sigma1914

rich584 said:


> If it's not a 24-200, I'll be happy to do it for you, just cover the shipping back and forth.
> 
> Rich


Thanks Rich, I may take you up on that in due time. It's a 24-100.


----------



## Richierich

P Smith said:


> That's external influence, while we're talking about the 'sponge' blocking heat dissipation from the drive. Strictly speaking, the sponge will not protect from excessive external shock/vibrations, it just dampening nose/HDD vibration of the HDD itself. And definitely it will "help" raising HDD internal temp.


I Agree 100% With Your Assessment. Well Stated in my Opinion.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

P Smith said:


> That's external influence, while we're talking about the 'sponge' blocking heat dissipation from the drive. *Strictly speaking, the sponge will not protect from excessive external shock/vibrations*, it just dampening nose/HDD vibration of the HDD itself. And definitely it will "help" raising HDD internal temp.





richierich said:


> I Agree 100% With Your Assessment. Well Stated in my Opinion.


I respectfully disagree, having seen how the internal drives are mounted within all 3 HR24 units.

The foam will indeed aid the vibration sourced from the hard disk drive and dissipated within the mounting housing and through the HD DVR itself thereafter. If that were not so, there would be little reason to even have the foam, let alone the rubber grommet mounts. The HR24 drives are now so quiet that the foam is virtually irrelevant, as far as hard drive noise _alone_.

For that very reason, installing a "different" drive without the foam risks introducing the same vibration issues.


----------



## uscpsycho

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I respectfully disagree, having seen how the internal drives are mounted within all 3 HR24 units.
> 
> The foam will indeed aid the vibration sourced from the hard disk drive and dissipated within the mounting housing and through the HD DVR itself thereafter. If that were not so, there would be little reason to even have the foam, let alone the rubber grommet mounts. The HR24 drives are now so quiet that the foam is virtually irrelevant, as far as hard drive noise _alone_.
> 
> For that very reason, installing a "different" drive without the foam risks introducing the same vibration issues.


I think we've gotten to the point of splitting hairs.

What percentage of all the world's hard drives are protected against vibrations using foam? Very few. And I don't think there are a whole lot of hard drive failures that would have been avoided by using foam. So I think these "risks" from vibration issues are a non-issue, at least in a home-based DVR application. I mean hard drives aren't so fragile that they are susceptible to damage from their own vibrations...

Maybe the foam gives some minimal protection against failure but I think the main purpose is noise dampening.

In any case, with the WD 2TB Green drive I think the foam is a bad idea because of the amount of pressure it physically puts against the top of the drive. This cannot be good. If I was using a hard drive that is thinner and doesn't compress the foam so much I'd keep it in there. But with foam or without foam I don't think it matters much at the end of the day.


----------



## Richierich

uscpsycho said:


> I think we've gotten to the point of splitting hairs.
> 
> Maybe the foam gives some minimal protection against failure but I think the Main Purpose is Noise Dampening.


I Agree as we have had alot of Noisey DVRs in the Past and a lot of complaints so maybe they went with the Foam to lessen the Noise.


----------



## P Smith

P Smith said:


> That's external influence, while we're talking about the 'sponge' blocking heat dissipation from the drive. Strictly speaking, the sponge will not protect from excessive *external *shock/vibrations, it just dampening nose/HDD vibration of the HDD itself. And definitely it will "help" raising HDD internal temp.





hdtvfan0001 said:


> *I respectfully disagree*, having seen how the internal drives are mounted within all 3 HR24 units.
> 
> The foam will indeed aid the *vibration sourced from the hard disk drive* and dissipated within the mounting housing and through the HD DVR itself thereafter. If that were not so, there would be little reason to even have the foam, let alone the rubber grommet mounts. The HR24 drives are now so quiet that the foam is virtually irrelevant, as far as hard drive noise _alone_.
> 
> For that very reason, installing a "different" drive without the foam risks introducing the same vibration issues.


DO you really disagree on that fact the 'sponge' will NOT protect the HDD from external shocks/shaking [by you for example] ? Plus I highlighted you factual "agree". Huh ? Adding your word "the foam is virtually irrelevant" ...

"Vibration issue" ? From your [customer] stand point the 'issue' is just a noise, not an issue.


----------



## Rich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I read somewhere that was called the Rex Ryan technique. :eek2::lol:


Now, there's a real big reason to go far off topic! :lol:

You might know that we'd get a coach with a foot fetish. And we backed into the playoffs again! The agony just goes on and on.

Rich


----------



## Rich

sigma1914 said:


> Thanks Rich, I may take you up on that in due time. It's a 24-100.


Anytime.

Rich


----------



## Rich

uscpsycho said:


> I think we've gotten to the point of splitting hairs.
> 
> What percentage of all the world's hard drives are protected against vibrations using foam? Very few. And I don't think there are a whole lot of hard drive failures that would have been avoided by using foam. So I think these "risks" from vibration issues are a non-issue, at least in a home-based DVR application. I mean hard drives aren't so fragile that they are susceptible to damage from their own vibrations...
> 
> Maybe the foam gives some minimal protection against failure but I think the main purpose is noise dampening.
> 
> In any case, with the WD 2TB Green drive I think the foam is a bad idea because of the amount of pressure it physically puts against the top of the drive. This cannot be good. If I was using a hard drive that is thinner and doesn't compress the foam so much I'd keep it in there. But with foam or without foam I don't think it matters much at the end of the day.


Agree, I do. With the WD EADS or EVDS noise really isn't an issue. The FAN is correct about one thing. I've taken quite a few HRs apart and the screws are not properly tightened on many of the HDD brackets. That makes for a whole lot of noise. I'd also advise anyone getting a replacement to flip it over and see if anything inside rattles while doing that. I've found screws laying on the motherboard.

Rich


----------



## Richierich

rich584 said:


> Agree, I do. With the WD EADS or EVDS noise really isn't an issue. The FAN is correct about one thing. I've taken quite a few HRs apart and the screws are not properly tightened on many of the HDD brackets. That makes for a whole lot of noise. I'd also advise anyone getting a replacement to flip it over and see if anything inside rattles while doing that. I've found screws laying on the motherboard.
> 
> Rich


That's an interesting statement.

Was that a Refurb?


----------



## Rich

richierich said:


> That's an interesting statement.
> 
> Was that a Refurb?


Yup.

Rich


----------



## Richierich

What a Sloppy Job of Refurbishing a DVR.


----------



## elixir26

In May 2010 I was blessed with the arrival of twins, both HR24 500’s. I promptly hooked up an existing Seagate ST31000340NS in an AziO enclosure and fired it up. It’s been working great ever since. The other twin, my personal HR (I’ll call him Skippy) got a brand new WD 2tb EADS in an AziO enclosure and it worked great until about a month ago. Skippy then started to, you guessed it, skip, and lag. Skippy became basically unusable. I did some reading and decided to wipe the drive and install it internally. (The TOS police should stop reading now). After going through the wipe and the installation of that drive and a couple others of less capacity I could not get Skippy to bite on any of the drives other than it’s original internal pipeline drive. I’m not too hung up on money and I wanted the best 2tb drive I could get within reason. I bought a Seagate ST32000641AS. It’s supposed to be designed for video. Skippy puked that one up too. I put the ST32000641AS in an enclosure and hooked it up to one of my tried and true HR20 700s. It worked like a charm. I then ordered a WD20EURS. It came today. I flicked off Skippy’s lid, which I can do with my eyes closed by now, swapped out the hard drives and eureka!!! Skippy is happy again and so am I. I suppose the ST32000641AS is not compatible with a HR24 500. I ran some tests on the EADS and it had some bad cluster issues. It seems to work in the computers, though I’m not likely to trust it. It still will not work with any of my DVRS. I know that the WD EARS has compatibility issues, I must now add the ST32000641AS to the list.


----------



## P Smith

So the WD20EURS is A/V Green Power drive ...


----------



## elixir26

P Smith said:


> So the WD20EURS is A/V Green Power drive ...


Yes it is


----------



## P Smith

good choice then


----------



## elixir26

P Smith said:


> good choice then


I find the fact that the ST32000641AS will work with the HR20 but not the 24's puzzling and yes it pisses me off. I can see a "green" issue for an internal mount as your working with the DVR's power supply. But it would not work with a internal or an external.....I hate green...


----------



## Rich

richierich said:


> What a Sloppy Job of Refurbishing a DVR.


If memory serves me, and it rarely does :lol:, I think that screw came out of the HDD bracket. There are three screws holding the HDD in place in the bracket that faces the front panel. One of them was the screw I found on the motherboard and I think the other two would have fallen out eventually. All the screws on the bracket were very loose. You should have heard the racket that unit made.

I've also found very loose screws in many of the 20-700s that I've bought from MDU dwellers. They were all sets owned by one family and all but one had an intact warranty sticker on the back. I can only conclude that even the factory built original 20-700s suffered from loose screws.

Rich


----------



## Rich

elixir26 said:


> In May 2010 I was blessed with the arrival of twins, both HR24 500's. I promptly hooked up an existing Seagate ST31000340NS in an AziO enclosure and fired it up. It's been working great ever since. The other twin, my personal HR (I'll call him Skippy) got a brand new WD 2tb EADS in an AziO enclosure and it worked great until about a month ago. Skippy then started to, you guessed it, skip, and lag. Skippy became basically unusable. I did some reading and decided to wipe the drive and install it internally. (The TOS police should stop reading now). After going through the wipe and the installation of that drive and a couple others of less capacity I could not get Skippy to bite on any of the drives other than it's original internal pipeline drive. I'm not too hung up on money and I wanted the best 2tb drive I could get within reason. I bought a Seagate ST32000641AS. It's supposed to be designed for video. Skippy puked that one up too. I put the ST32000641AS in an enclosure and hooked it up to one of my tried and true HR20 700s. It worked like a charm. I then ordered a WD20EURS. It came today. I flicked off Skippy's lid, which I can do with my eyes closed by now, swapped out the hard drives and eureka!!! Skippy is happy again and so am I. I suppose the ST32000641AS is not compatible with a HR24 500. I ran some tests on the EADS and it had some bad cluster issues. It seems to work in the computers, though I'm not likely to trust it. It still will not work with any of my DVRS. I know that the WD EARS has compatibility issues, I must now add the ST32000641AS to the list.


I gave up on the Seagates too. I've still got some running and running well, but I don't think that they are the best choice for the HRs. I do know that the EVDS will run properly in a 24-500.

I've never heard of an EURS HDD. What made you try it? Somebody recommend it or did you just take a shot in the dark?

Just searched amazon.com for EURS drives and couldn't find any. Got a link?

Rich


----------



## Rich

elixir26 said:


> I find the fact that the ST32000641AS will work with the HR20 but not the 24's puzzling and yes it pisses me off. I can see a "green" issue for an internal mount as your working with the DVR's power supply. But it would not work with a internal or an external.....I hate green...


From the beginning, Seagate HDDs in or on anything but a 20-700 have been problematic.

Rich


----------



## hdtvfan0001

rich584 said:


> From the beginning, Seagate HDDs in or on anything but a 20-700 have been problematic.
> 
> Rich


Hmmm...guess I'm just lucky...as the Seagate Barracuda in the HR21 here has been working fine for about 2 years now. Of course now...I use Hitachi green drives - also problem free, and even quieter.


----------



## Rich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Hmmm...guess I'm just lucky...as the Seagate Barracuda in the HR21 here has been working fine for about 2 years now. Of course now...I use Hitachi green drives - also problem free, and even quieter.


They all came with Seagate drives in them, at first, I think, but we couldn't get the Seagate FAPs to work with 21s.

Rich


----------



## hdtvfan0001

rich584 said:


> They all came with Seagate drives in them, at first, I think, but we couldn't get the Seagate FAPs to work with 21s.
> 
> Rich


Mine was an upgrade to more storage....and continues to work without a single issue for quite some time now.

Hmmm...


----------



## Rich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Mine was an upgrade to more storage....and continues to work without a single issue for quite some time now.
> 
> Hmmm...


I have a few Seagates that are still working properly, some do, some didn't. That chattering that started after the DLB NR caused me to swap out several of my loudest Seagates for the much quieter WD Green drives.

But you know that!!!

Rich


----------



## hdtvfan0001

rich584 said:


> I have a few Seagates that are still working properly, some do, some didn't. That chattering that started after the DLB NR caused me to swap out several of my loudest Seagates for the much quieter WD Green drives.
> 
> But you know that!!!
> 
> Rich


I certainly recall your escapades on that front. 

Now that I've installed 2 Hitachi "green" drives...and they've been running for some time too...I've actually become a fan of those somewhat.


----------



## Rich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I certainly recall your escapades on that front.
> 
> Now that I've installed 2 Hitachi "green" drives...and they've been running for some time too...I've actually become a fan of those somewhat.


Next summer, when I'm ready to upgrade, I might take a shot at one of them. I will, of course, flame you if I have problems with it. :lol:

Rich


----------



## gitarzan

Why is network attached storage still not an option?


----------



## hdtvfan0001

rich584 said:


> Next summer, when I'm ready to upgrade, I might take a shot at one of them. I will, of course, flame you if I have problems with it. :lol:
> 
> Rich


Go for it...the 1TB and 2TB drives work well, and are on sale at great prices from time to time. Also...whisper quiet.


----------



## Steve

gitarzan said:


> Why is network attached storage still not an option?


As you probably know, DirecTV encrypts recordings to the DVR that recorded them, not the user account. So even if it was technically possible to see a NAS drive, only the original DVR would be able to play them back. Will that ever change? :shrug:


----------



## gitarzan

Steve said:


> As you probably know, DirecTV encrypts recordings to the DVR that recorded them, not the user account. So even if it was technically possible to see a NAS drive, only the original DVR would be able to play them back. Will that ever change? :shrug:


Yes, I know. I would be very happy with a 2TB NAS device even if tied to the source DVR.


----------



## Rich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Go for it...the 1TB and 2TB drives work well, and are on sale at great prices from time to time. Also...whisper quiet.


Need a link or the model number. Better to go with what you're using than guess.

Rich


----------



## Richierich

I have had ZERO PROBLEMS with my WD20EADS DRIVES and since I was the First One at DBSTALK.COM to buy one and perhaps the first in the nation I can heartily say from Day One they have performed admirably and Quiet.


----------



## elixir26

rich584 said:


> I gave up on the Seagates too. I've still got some running and running well, but I don't think that they are the best choice for the HRs. I do know that the EVDS will run properly in a 24-500.
> 
> I've never heard of an EURS HDD. What made you try it? Somebody recommend it or did you just take a shot in the dark?
> 
> Just searched amazon.com for EURS drives and couldn't find any. Got a link?
> 
> Rich


This is the info from Newegg. When I saw the DVR in the info I figured I'd give it a shot. It's still working great.

Western Digital AV-GP WD20EURS 2TB SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive

* 2TB
* 64MB Cache
* SATA 3.0Gb/s

* Cache: 64MB
* Features: Long-term Reliability - These drives are designed to last in high temperature always-on streaming digital audio/video environments such as PVR/DVR, DVR recorders and surveillance video recorders. Reduced Power Consumption - WD has reduced power consumption by up to 40 percent compared to competitors' drives with the combination of WD's IntelliSeek, IntelliPark,


----------



## P Smith

Tech specs of the drive and other AV-GP is here http://www.wdc.com/wdproducts/library/SpecSheet/ENG/2879-701250.pdf
I found one difference between EURS and EVDS is:
Host to/from drive (sustained)
3 Gb/s
130 MB/s
vs
3 Gb/s
110 MB/s

*EADS* is WD Caviar Green (WD Caviar GP) of *Desktop* series, while *EVDS/EURS *are CE [*PVR/DVR*] type.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

rich584 said:


> Need a link or the model number. Better to go with what you're using than guess.
> 
> Rich


This is the 1TB version...
Brace yourself when you see the prices... :lol:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822145304

His big brother is the 2TB model of the same series...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822145298


----------



## fluffybear

richierich said:


> I have had ZERO PROBLEMS with my WD20EADS DRIVES and since I was the First One at DBSTALK.COM to buy one and perhaps the first in the nation I can heartily say from Day One they have performed admirably and Quiet.


I just upgraded a second DVR in my home with the WD20EADS and am very impressed. I have two more systems I want to upgrade (will need to wait until everyone has finished watching the recordings on them) and will not hesitate to purchase another.


----------



## Richierich

fluffybear said:


> I just upgraded a second DVR in my home with the WD20EADS and am very impressed. I have two more systems I want to upgrade (will need to wait until everyone has finished watching the recordings on them) and will not hesitate to purchase another.


Yes, I don't think you can Beat the EADS Series even though I considered the EVDS because of the Specs but several people had problems with them for whatever reason so I stuck with the EADS Series and they have Performed Flawlessly.

Glad I got my Installation stuff fixed where my coaxes did not have the Rubber Boots on them and they had problems in the Freezing Rain but right now my PQ is Excellent with no Hiccups or Pixellation.

Very Pleased and I am going to have him come back on his day off and take down my old dish and then put Heat Shrink Wraps over the Connectors to further isolate them from Moisture.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> Yes, *I don't think you can Beat the EADS Series *even though I considered the EVDS because of the Specs but several people had problems with them for whatever reason so I stuck with the EADS Series and they have Performed Flawlessly.


...except in price, of course...


----------



## Richierich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> ...except in price, of course...


When I look at Price and see that it is Cheaper I ask myself why???

Cheaper Is Not Always Better!!!

Some people are obsessed with always looking at the Bottom Line or the Right Side of the Menu but I look at what will fulfill my needs in the Long Run.


----------



## Rich

elixir26 said:


> This is the info from Newegg. When I saw the DVR in the info I figured I'd give it a shot. It's still working great.
> 
> Western Digital AV-GP WD20EURS 2TB SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
> 
> * 2TB
> * 64MB Cache
> * SATA 3.0Gb/s
> 
> * Cache: 64MB
> * Features: Long-term Reliability - These drives are designed to last in high temperature always-on streaming digital audio/video environments such as PVR/DVR, DVR recorders and surveillance video recorders. Reduced Power Consumption - WD has reduced power consumption by up to 40 percent compared to competitors' drives with the combination of WD's IntelliSeek, IntelliPark,


Found it. Wonder why amazon.com doesn't have them? Anyhow, after reading the specs for the EURS, I noticed a link to a 2TB EARS and that description was totally different. Mentioned only PCs.

Next summer, when it's upgrade time I'll be sure to try one of the EURS out. So far that's one Hitachi and one WD EURS that I've said I will try out. Thanx for the info and don't be offended if you see me continue to recommend the EADS and EVDS drives. I'm not comfortable recommending a drive I haven't tried. Please post or PM me if anything untoward happens.

Thanx again,

Rich


----------



## Rich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> ...except in price, of course...


Gonna stop calling you "_FAN_" and start calling you "_DIGGER_"!!! :lol:

Rich


----------



## Rich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> This is the 1TB version...
> Brace yourself when you see the prices... :lol:
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822145304
> 
> His big brother is the 2TB model of the same series...
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822145298


About the same prices as the EADS or EVDS on amazon.com.

Rich


----------



## Richierich

$120 is a Pretty Good Price for a 2 TB Drive because I bought the First WD20EADS offered for Sale and I Paid over $300 for it but I wanted it badly so I Bit the Bullet.


----------



## davring

Compusa/Tiger Direst has the WD20EADS for $89.00:

http://www.compusa.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4545311


----------



## Richierich

davring said:


> Compusa/Tiger Direst has the WD20EADS for $89.00:
> 
> http://www.compusa.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4545311


That is the same Price as others have offered but with a $20 Rebate which is an Outstanding Value for a Great and Proven Drive.


----------



## Rich

richierich said:


> $120 is a Pretty Good Price for a 2 TB Drive because I bought the First WD20EADS offered for Sale and I Paid over $300 for it but I wanted it badly so I Bit the Bullet.


Those bullets must get bitter after awhile, no?

Rich


----------



## Richierich

rich584 said:


> Those bullets must get bitter after awhile, no?
> 
> Rich


Well, not everyone would Pony Up what I did for this WD20EADS but I wanted as much recording capacity on my Den HR23-700 and didn't want to wait until the price had come down and I had just sold a lot of stock at a Great Price so I didn't think twice about it and bought another one about a month later so HDTVFAN0001 and myself are at different opposites of the Spectrum although I do like Bargains myself and don't just throw money away because it excites me but if I really want it I will Pony up the necessary funds to get what I want.

Vegas Here I Come!!!


----------



## Rich

richierich said:


> Well, not everyone would Pony Up what I did for this WD20EADS but I wanted as much recording capacity on my Den HR23-700 and didn't want to wait until the price had come down and I had just sold a lot of stock at a Great Price so I didn't think twice about it and bought another one about a month later so HDTVFAN0001 and myself are at different opposites of the Spectrum although I do like Bargains myself and don't just throw money away because it excites me but if I really want it I will Pony up the necessary funds to get what I want.
> 
> Vegas Here I Come!!!


Have a great trip!!!

Rich


----------



## Richierich

rich584 said:


> Have a great trip!!!
> 
> Rich


Wish you could come out there with us as it is gonna be a lot of Fun!!!

Hope you get to Feeling Better!!!


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> Well, not everyone would Pony Up what I did for this WD20EADS but I wanted as much recording capacity on my Den HR23-700 and didn't want to wait until the price had come down and I had just sold a lot of stock at a Great Price so I didn't think twice about it and bought another one about a month later *so HDTVFAN0001 and myself are at different opposites of the Spectrum* although I do like Bargains myself and don't just throw money away because it excites me but if I really want it I will Pony up the necessary funds to get what I want.


Yup....I look to get value and performance....Richie will pay through the nose to be first in line. 

90 days later....the race is even, but my wallet's not on fire.... :lol:


----------



## Richierich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Yup....I look to get value and performance....Richie will pay through the nose to be first in line.


Not necessarily but if I bought a 1 TB Drive and then waited 6 months or more for the Price to come down I would then Lose All Of My Recordings when I swapped the 1 TB Drive for the 2 TB drive.

So I Bit The Bullet and Paid the $280 and then didn't have to worry about it.

Does that mean I don't shop at Walmart for Bargains? No

If I want Filet Mignon I get it but if I want a Burger I get it too.

All about Options and Choices which I didn't have when I was a Poor Boy!!! :lol:

However, I don't let my Poverty Years Dictate to me what I can or have to do now. You have to adjust your thinking as your income increases but not be Foolish in your decisions.


----------



## elixir26

rich584 said:


> Found it. Wonder why amazon.com doesn't have them? Anyhow, after reading the specs for the EURS, I noticed a link to a 2TB EARS and that description was totally different. Mentioned only PCs.
> 
> Next summer, when it's upgrade time I'll be sure to try one of the EURS out. So far that's one Hitachi and one WD EURS that I've said I will try out. Thanx for the info and don't be offended if you see me continue to recommend the EADS and EVDS drives. I'm not comfortable recommending a drive I haven't tried. Please post or PM me if anything untoward happens.
> 
> Thanx again,
> 
> Rich


No problem, I'm not offend-able in any case. I should clear up why I went for the EURS instead of the EADS....I have a 8 month old defective EADS so I was gun-shy about jumping into another. I know I know some folks have them running without a problem for decades. I wasn't one of those guys though.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> However, I don't let my Poverty Years Dictate to me what I can or have to do now. You have to adjust your thinking as your income increases but not be Foolish in your decisions.


Of course choices are always good.

Then again....getting something of equal or better quality for less money to accomplish the same thing is a smart move...but sometimes it requires a slight bit of patience to accomplish it.

The point was that being first comes at a price in most cases. That's nothing new, and just a manner of choice. Early adopters always pay more.

Right now..there are plenty of good 1TB and 2Tb drives out there, all at a much lower price than just 6 or 12 months ago. Happy shopping to those who are looking.


----------



## Rich

elixir26 said:


> No problem, I'm not offend-able in any case. I should clear up why I went for the EURS instead of the EADS....I have a 8 month old defective EADS so I was gun-shy about jumping into another. I know I know some folks have them running without a problem for decades. I wasn't one of those guys though.


I know I have a couple EADS HDDs, maybe three, that are still running and running well, but I did have to return one. Too noisy for any room. Trust me, I'd buy an EURS today if I had a reason to. I do my upgrades in the summer months in preparation for the upcoming season. To do an upgrade now wouldn't be in my best interests. I do look forward to purchasing one. And I do appreciate your posts.

Rich


----------



## Chip Moody

The very drive I dropped into my HR21Pro today! 

- Chip



elixir26 said:


> This is the info from Newegg. When I saw the DVR in the info I figured I'd give it a shot. It's still working great.
> 
> Western Digital AV-GP WD20EURS 2TB SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive


----------



## pennsylvaniaRON

Does anyone know if a 3TB drive (Newegg has 2 drives a seagate and hitachi) will work in an hr24-500? Uh, sorry, an OWNED HR24-500:lol: Regards...


----------



## P Smith

pennsylvaniaRON said:


> Does anyone know if a 3TB drive (Newegg has 2 drives a seagate and hitachi) will work in an hr24-500? Uh, sorry, an OWNED HR24-500:lol: Regards...


You'll be first who will do that.


----------



## Richierich

pennsylvaniaRON said:


> Does anyone know if a 3TB drive (Newegg has 2 drives a seagate and hitachi) will work in an hr24-500? Uh, sorry, an OWNED HR24-500:lol: Regards...


No, as there is a Kernel Limitation of 2 TB and I don't see that changing either but it would be nice but maybe it would cause the CPU to become Overworked by too much Indexing, Sorting, etc. of the Playlist, Guide Data, etc.


----------



## mdavej

pennsylvaniaRON said:


> Does anyone know if a 3TB drive (Newegg has 2 drives a seagate and hitachi) will work in an hr24-500? Uh, sorry, an OWNED HR24-500:lol: Regards...


Have you considered watching and deleting some of your recordings or archiving to DVD?


----------



## hdtvfan0001

mdavej said:


> Have you considered watching and deleting some of your recordings or archiving to DVD?


Then again...some of us have more than 1 HD DVR as well...that solves multiple issues.


----------



## pennsylvaniaRON

mdavej said:


> Have you considered watching and deleting some of your recordings or archiving to DVD?


Ahh, Dave good suggestion but I have that covered. I own a Hauppague PVR which I am able to use to take anything recorded off my DVR and burn it to either dvd or blu ray. I am also A+ certified in pc repair so taking my owned:lol: hr24-100 apart and upgrading is a walk in the park. I have a 1.5 TB in my owned HR21 which still has 28% remaining. The idea is to copy it to the 3TB and then I'll have 2 dvr's with the same data. Sort of a backup.

The only thing that will prevent a larger drive over 2TB is the software the DVR uses. It's my contention that the software will handle well over 2tb. I may be wrong here but I haven't found a post where someone has tried it and failed. If so please send the link and I won't waste my time. I can always use the 3TB in my computer. I'll just trueimage my 1TB C drive to the 3tb and use the 1TB as my backup. It will never go to waste. So I'll order that 3tb drive on Monday and report back ASAP.

But to be honest the real reason I would like to put a 3TB drive in my HR24 is because of a famous line from the movie Tombstone. I want to try it for the RECKONING!:lol:
Regards...


----------



## Richierich

You might want to PM Rich584 and ask him as he knows someone who tried it with an External Drive and it didn't work because of the 2 TB Kernel Limitation. 

So, if you know how to get around or change the 2 TB Kernel Limitation then go for it but Too Many Recordings cause the CPU to become Sluggish so maybe you could Upgrade the CPU and RAM also.

Give it a Shot and let us know how it works.


----------



## pennsylvaniaRON

richierich said:


> You might want to PM Rich584 and ask him as he knows someone who tried it with an External Drive and it didn't work because of the 2 TB Kernel Limitation.
> 
> So, if you know how to get around or change the 2 TB Kernel Limitation then go for it but Too Many Recordings cause the CPU to become Sluggish so maybe you could Upgrade the CPU and RAM also.
> 
> Give it a Shot and let us know how it works.


Rich:
I really would not know how to do that. I'll just throw the 3TB in there next week. Thats easy enough. I guess the only way to know if I'm using 3TB is to copy my 1.5TB that has 28% remaining and then see if it copied correctly with a higher % remaining. If it works great, if not then we know there is a limitation on INTERNAL drives. Knowledge is power. Regards...


----------



## elixir26

Cheers to the 3tb experiment! I hope it works for you. I'm happy not to be on point for this one..


----------



## Richierich

If you do a Search here in this Forum you will find Many Many Posts about People who have tried this and Failed or they would have put up a Big Sign that it worked but give it a shot if you don't believe that there is a Kernel Limitation.

In essence, do a Search for Kernel Limitation and see the Results!!!

Might Save You Alot Of Time!!!


----------



## P Smith

richierich said:


> If you do a Search here in this Forum you will find Many Many Posts about People who have tried this and Failed or they would have put up a Big Sign that it worked but give it a shot if you don't believe that there is a Kernel Limitation.
> 
> In essence, do a Search for Kernel Limitation and see the Results!!!
> 
> Might Save You Alot Of Time!!!


Don't rush to the advice.

Since those [obsolete soon ? ] posts new FW came and no one know the answer.


----------



## Richierich

P Smith said:


> Don't rush to the advice.
> 
> Since those [obsolete soon ? ] posts new FW came and no one know the answer.


Mr. P Smith, you always continue to Amaze me just like my Female Masseuse in Las Vegas!!!

Can I become your Consultant as an Interpreter???


----------



## Rich

richierich said:


> You might want to PM Rich584 and ask him as he knows someone who tried it with an External Drive and it didn't work because of the 2 TB Kernel Limitation.


I don't recall anyone trying it. I wanted to, but I got rid of my RAID boxes and haven't seen a 3TB drive that I thought would work in an HR. I did fill up a RAID box set to full and got the full 2TBs and had content dropping off as room was needed. I do think I could have gone farther.

But, let's face it, 2TBs is an almost obscene amount of storage and the only reason I use them is to keep the percentage of space available up. I don't even know how many 2TB HDDs or how many 1.5s I have at the moment. I really should have labeled all my owned HRs, but I didn't even consider doing that at the time I installed the large internals.

The other thing to consider is that externals bog down the HRs when they get to about 70% full (that's any size external HDD) and I don't know what a 3TB would do to an HR.

Rich


----------



## P Smith

richierich said:


> Mr. P Smith, you always continue to Amaze me just like my Female Masseuse in Las Vegas!!!
> 
> Can I become your Consultant as an Interpreter???


My pleasure and appreciation - just PM any my grammar error or (if you don't mind) just post in a thread and I would be glad to learn from you. NOT kidding!


----------



## Richierich

P Smith said:


> My pleasure and appreciation - just PM any my grammar error or (if you don't mind) just post in a thread and I would be glad to learn from you. NOT kidding!


I really do Appreciate Your Knowledge and Understand that Learning another language is not always easy (you should see my attempt at Spanish) so if I can help you I will because I know you have alot of technical expertise and knowledge!!!


----------



## pennsylvaniaRON

It's no big deal for me to try this. I have been researching the 2.2tb limit and now have another reason to get the 3tb. I'm not even sure it will work in my computer let alone the HR24. In a computer you have to have a 64 bit OS (I use win 7_64) but you also need and EFI bios which I do not have. I'm using an Asus very new model mobo but as far as I can tell its not EFI. So there's another challenge.

If the drive doesnt work it will cost me $35 in restocking and return postage fees. not a big deal. It probably won't work in the HR but if no one tries then we'll never know. My HR24-100 has a manuf. date of 11/15/2010 so its only been around 2 months. 

Will probably have an answer by next wednesday if I get the drive in 1 day. Regards...


----------



## P Smith

Do not use it as boot (SSD is better), should works as a secondary [data].


----------



## mdavej

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Then again...some of us have more than 1 HD DVR as well...that solves multiple issues.


If you thought archiving was such a bad idea, why did you go to the trouble of creating a poll about it? And please tell me what it's like to have more than 1 HD DVR. Here in my simple hovel, I can only dream of such luxury.


----------



## Richierich

pennsylvaniaRON said:


> It's no big deal for me to try this. I have been researching the 2.2tb limit and now have another reason to get the 3tb. I'm not even sure it will work in my computer let alone the HR24. In a computer you have to have a 64 bit OS (I use win 7_64) but you also need and EFI bios which I do not have. I'm using an Asus very new model mobo but as far as I can tell its not EFI. So there's another challenge.
> 
> If the drive doesnt work it will cost me $35 in restocking and return postage fees. not a big deal. It probably won't work in the HR but if no one tries then we'll never know. My HR24-100 has a manuf. date of 11/15/2010 so its only been around 2 months.
> 
> Will probably have an answer by next wednesday if I get the drive in 1 day. Regards...


How will you know it works until you fill up the Drive and see if you can access all of the recordings?


----------



## Richierich

mdavej said:


> If you thought archiving was such a bad idea, why did you go to the trouble of creating a poll about it? And please tell me what it's like to have more than 1 HD DVR. Here in my simple hovel, I can only dream of such luxury.


He Never said Archiving was a Bad Idea.

For some it is a Great Idea and for some they may never use it. For those who will use it, it is worth a lot especially if you have ever lost all of your Recordings on a DVR where the hard drive failed.

I have 7 DVRs, 3 of which Backup the other 4 DVRs in case of hard drive failure. I would love the ability to offload my Recordings so if one of my DVRs experiences a hard drive failure, I can simply Replace the drive and then load those archived recordings back onto the new drive and I am back in business.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

mdavej said:


> If you thought archiving was such a bad idea, why did you go to the trouble of creating a poll about it? And please tell me what it's like to have more than 1 HD DVR. Here in my simple hovel, I can only dream of such luxury.


Archiving and having multiple HD DVRs are predominantly unrelated.

Yes, you can use a second HD DVR to duplicate your recordings...but that's a "band-aid" solution.

Relating this to this thread at hand...having another HD DVR simply expands capacity. You can also accomplish the same thing with an external eSATA drive. Choice are good.


----------



## P Smith

richierich said:


> He Never said Archiving was a Bad Idea.
> 
> For some it is a Great Idea and for some they may never use it. For those who will use it, it is worth a lot especially if you have ever lost all of your Recordings on a DVR where the hard drive failed.
> 
> I have 7 DVRs, 3 of which Backup the other 4 DVRs in case of hard drive failure. I would love the ability to offload my Recordings so if one of my DVRs experiences a hard drive failure, I can simply Replace the drive and then load those archived recordings back onto the new drive and I am back in business.


Perhaps you would be interested if a program would do transfer selected show(s) between drives ?


----------



## Richierich

P Smith said:


> Perhaps you would be interested if a program would do transfer selected show(s) between drives ?


That would work Nicely Mr. Smith but not for everyone who does not have the Luxury of having multiple DVRs to Back Up their other DVRs.

I think it would be Nice if I just could Offload my Recordings to my 2 TB USB External Drive for safekeeping and then later on if I needed to after a hard drive crash I could replace the drive and download those recordings that would be Great.

Don't know if it's doable or feasible but that would be Nice!!!


----------



## Rich

P Smith said:


> Perhaps you would be interested if a program would do transfer selected show(s) between drives ?


We've been fighting that battle for years. Finally, it looks like D* is taking notice of the fact that many more people have external devices and is willing to give us an option to use "something" to back up valued recordings. Still not what I (and many others) want, but it is a first step.

Geez, maybe they'll even notice how many of us want BBCA in HD!

If I were the decision maker at D*, I'd be giving the customers what they want at every opportunity and bury the competition. They want to be the leader in providers? Lead! Beat the competition down so badly that no one would even consider another provider. No, I'm not a socialist....:lol:

Rich


----------



## pennsylvaniaRON

richierich said:


> That would work Nicely Mr. Smith but not for everyone who does not have the Luxury of having multiple DVRs to Back Up their other DVRs.
> 
> I think it would be Nice if I just could Offload my Recordings to my 2 TB USB External Drive for safekeeping and then later on if I needed to after a hard drive crash I could replace the drive and download those recordings that would be Great.
> 
> Don't know if it's doable or feasible but that would be Nice!!!


rich:

check out the Hauppauge PVR 1212. component video and optical audio from the D* HRxx to the Hauppage. Then USB from the Hauppage to your desk or laptop. Will be able to offload HD content and edit out commercials etc. Somewhat time consuming. You can then burn to dvd or blu ray...Regards...


----------



## pennsylvaniaRON

hi:

I just ordered two hard drives a 3TB (HITACHI Deskstar H3IK30003272SW (0S03208) 3TB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5") to see if its possible to break the 2.2TB limit and the (Western Digital AV-GP WD20EVDS 2TB 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s) in case the 3TB doesn't work. I should get them on wednesday. Will report back ASAP. Regards...


----------



## Richierich

Good Luck and keep us Posted on how everything goes. I don't think it will work but at least we will know from you experiment.

A couple of others have tried it and failed but Rich584 would know more about that than me.


----------



## Rich

pennsylvaniaRON said:


> hi:
> 
> I just ordered two hard drives a 3TB (HITACHI Deskstar H3IK30003272SW (0S03208) 3TB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5") to see if its possible to break the 2.2TB limit and the (Western Digital AV-GP WD20EVDS 2TB 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s) in case the 3TB doesn't work. I should get them on wednesday. Will report back ASAP. Regards...


It's gonna take you a while to get to 2TBs of content. Make sure you do not set all recordings to "Keep until I delete". When I tried it, and filled mine up, I had content dropping off to make room for other content. This is what you want to watch for. If you get past 2TB (and you really won't know exactly when, the hours are not the only consideration, the content of each program recorded also plays a part in the overall size of the content), and nothing drops off to make room for more content, you will have exceeded the expected limit.

I did feel that when the programs started to drop off my 2TB RAID setup that I could have gone further. How much further, I have no idea. You'll also have to do a lot of rebooting or the HR will slow up very badly.

To make a guesstimate, I'd use 500-550 hours as the 2TB limit. After you reach that point, keep a constant eye on it, when it starts dropping programs off to make room for more programs, you've reached the limit. At that point, count up all the hours and let us know. That's about all the advice I can give you. I really felt that I could have exceeded the 2TBs if I'd had a larger capacity.

By the way, I'm glad it's you that's doing this and not me. 

Rich


----------



## Richierich

I imagine Directv realized that Exceeding the 2 TB Limit would cause Sluggishness and a General Slowing Down of the DVR because the CPU would be Overworked and couldn't properly handle all of the tasks, so perhaps that is why they set that Kernel Limatation.


----------



## Rich

richierich said:


> I imagine Directv realized that Exceeding the 2 TB Limit would cause Sluggishness and a General Slowing Down of the DVR because the CPU would be Overworked and couldn't properly handle all of the tasks, so perhaps that is why they set that Kernel Limatation.


We'll never know unless someone tries it.

Rich


----------



## pennsylvaniaRON

rich584 said:


> We'll never know unless someone tries it.
> 
> Rich


I just received the 3TB hard drive for this experiment. I wonder if the people following this thread could help me. I only upgraded my hr21 once to a 1.5TB and that was awhile ago. I really don't want to lose all my programs that are on that 1.5TB drive now by having the dvr format it by mistake.

This is the procedure I used last time: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=148760

Before copying I know I have to install the new drive into the dvr, let it format and then do a graceful power down. I believe I have to do a graceful power down with the original drive. Is that correct? if so (and especially if this doesn't work) can I just put the original drive back into the dvr and power up? It won't format my drive will it? regards....:eek2:


----------



## harsh

richierich said:


> I imagine Directv realized that Exceeding the 2 TB Limit would cause Sluggishness and a General Slowing Down of the DVR because the CPU would be Overworked and couldn't properly handle all of the tasks, so perhaps that is why they set that Kernel Limatation.


Let's take a shot at some scientific reasoning about this:

How many files are we talking? I'm guessing not more than 300. Doesn't sound like it would swamp a directory cache. The data block size could be relatively large; limiting the size of the bitmap.

It may seem insurmountable when you apply the constructs available in Windows, but when you use something a lot more scalable, it doesn't have to bring the hardware to its knees.


----------



## Rich

pennsylvaniaRON said:


> I just received the 3TB hard drive for this experiment. I wonder if the people following this thread could help me. I only upgraded my hr21 once to a 1.5TB and that was awhile ago. I really don't want to lose all my programs that are on that 1.5TB drive now by having the dvr format it by mistake.
> 
> This is the procedure I used last time: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=148760
> 
> Before copying I know I have to install the new drive into the dvr, let it format and then do a graceful power down. I believe I have to do a graceful power down with the original drive. Is that correct? if so (and especially if this doesn't work) can I just put the original drive back into the dvr and power up? It won't format my drive will it? regards....:eek2:


You should never get an HDD reformatted whether you put it back in/on the original HR or another one. All your programs should remain intact and will be viewable on the HR that they were recorded on.

Rich


----------



## Rich

rich584 said:


> You should never get an HDD reformatted whether you put it back in/on the original HR or another one. All your programs should remain intact and will be viewable on the HR that they were recorded on.
> 
> Rich


Just posting to get back on this thread. Ignore it.

Rich


----------



## pennsylvaniaRON

rich584 said:


> You should never get an HDD reformatted whether you put it back in/on the original HR or another one. All your programs should remain intact and will be viewable on the HR that they were recorded on.
> 
> Rich


Ok I surely hope so. here's another dilemma. I have 2 hrxx's. an HR21-700 and the new HR24-100. All the programs were recorded on the hr21-700. Now I want to copy them to the HR24-100. Do you then think the hr24 will format my original drive?

To play it safe I'll do a graceful power down of my original drive in the hr21-700. Then put the 3TB in the new hr24-100 and let it format. That alone should be interesting because it's a 3TB. If that goes smoothly then I'll do the gparted procedure and put the copy (3TB) in the HR24-100. If that doesn't work then I'll try it with a 2TB.

I can't do this until tomorrow, Thursday. The snow (weather) messed up my day today. Regards...


----------



## RobertE

Won't work. Recordings are tied to the RID of the receiver they are recorded on. They won't transfer.


----------



## Rich

pennsylvaniaRON said:


> Ok I surely hope so. here's another dilemma. I have 2 hrxx's. an HR21-700 and the new HR24-100. All the programs were recorded on the hr21-700. Now I want to copy them to the HR24-100. Do you then think the hr24 will format my original drive?


No, it's never happened to me, but it has happened to others. Don't know what I do differently, but I always retain my original shows and all the other stuff.



> To play it safe I'll do a graceful power down of my original drive in the hr21-700. Then put the 3TB in the new hr24-100 and let it format.


That, alone, should be interesting. Please let us know what happens.

Don't really know if I'd ever bother with a 3TB drive, but I can feel the lust building. :lol:

Rich


----------



## pennsylvaniaRON

RobertE said:


> Won't work. Recordings are tied to the RID of the receiver they are recorded on. They won't transfer.


Failure then disaster. The failure is the Hitachi 3TB does not work. Won't even boot. When installed in an HR21-700 after a self check eventually you get a blue screen with error code 14-783. It gives you a box on that screen to reboot which I did and got the same error.

Failure in the hr24-100. Same exact thing happens but error code is slightly different. its 14-198 (but same message) having to do with the storage device have an initiazation problem or a critical error and to call D*.

Disaster. I went to copy my original hard drive to the 2TB. I did graceful shutdowns of both hard drives and then took them to my test computer. definitely hooked up the original on sata1 (sdb) and new drive on sata0 (sda). I ran gparted (latest ver) and it seemed to start and I went to bed. It said there were lot of files and directories.

I hooked up my original drive to the hr21 and it did a self check, then the step 1 of 2, then step 2, lots of almost there, 3 seconds etc. Then it got the satellite info and did the rebuilding schedular list (which took awhile about 6 minutes?). Then I got CNN but the remote didnt work. I couldnt do anything. I pressed the power button on the receiver and it rebooted and went into a loop of self checking etc. so I had no alternative except to pull the plug.

When it restarted and did the self check again it eventually came to the same screen failures the 3TB produced with an error 15-577. I am sick. All my NCAA games gone. I tried doing a copy again and got the super block error i guess because I cant do a graceful power down of my orig. drive. In addition gparted is showing that I'm only using <1.5 gb and there's 14gb free. So I assume its gone gone gone. I think I may have type uNmount at the end instead of umount. But I never saw it say success which I think its supposed to do. Yes I still have my health!!! Regards...


----------



## pennsylvaniaRON

As far as the 3tb upgrade the only other thing to try is the WD 3tb which may differ from the hitachi somehow. the hitachi is sataIII. D* has been using sataII. who knows?? maybe when I become undepressed from my disaster I'll get one. they were out of stock. In addition most people are using western digital drives in the upgrades. Cant think of anything else. In fact I can't even think! regards...


----------



## Rich

pennsylvaniaRON said:


> As far as the 3tb upgrade the only other thing to try is the WD 3tb which may differ from the hitachi somehow. the hitachi is sataIII. D* has been using sataII. who knows?? maybe when I become undepressed from my disaster I'll get one. they were out of stock. In addition most people are using western digital drives in the upgrades. Cant think of anything else. In fact I can't even think! regards...


Kudos for trying!

Rich


----------



## P Smith

pennsylvaniaRON said:


> As far as the 3tb upgrade the only other thing to try is the WD 3tb which may differ from the hitachi somehow. the hitachi is sataIII. D* has been using sataII. who knows?? maybe when I become undepressed from my disaster I'll get one. they were out of stock. In addition most people are using western digital drives in the upgrades. Cant think of anything else. In fact I can't even think! regards...


At least you did try . So, let it go and your 'depression' will gone in a week.


----------



## Rich

P Smith said:


> At least you did try . So, let it go and your 'depression' will gone in a week.


Give him a chance, perhaps he's got something with the SATA II vs III.

Rich


----------



## codespy

Since the 3TB don't work.......can we fall back and see if a 2.5TB will work.....if there's a company that makes them?

Or maybe an eSata splitter for two smaller external drives.....

I'm starting to run out of recording room on my setup! :lol:


----------



## pennsylvaniaRON

codespy said:


> Since the 3TB don't work.......can we fall back and see if a 2.5TB will work.....if there's a company that makes them?
> 
> Or maybe an eSata splitter for two smaller external drives.....
> 
> I'm starting to run out of recording room on my setup! :lol:


Now that I got lucky and repaired my original 1.5TB drive, thread:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=189182

I think I may try, just for the fun of it, the WD 3TB drive that has a 3.0gb/s transfer speed. I doubt that's the problem but again, no one knows. this is the drive Western Digital Caviar Green WD30EZRSDTL 3TB 64MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s. The price has come down on the web with free shipping so here we go again.

On another note: when the 3tb drive didnt work in the hr24 I put it in my computer. Only one 2.2tb partition was seen even with win 7_64. I use an Asus motherboard. Asus has a utility called disk unlocker which enables a user to use the entire drive. it made a second 746gb partition which windows set up as a separate drive letter. but for the life of me I could not delete that partition. I even used gparted which deletes it but it comes back. when i tried installing win 7 on it and went to delete that partition the delete button is grayed out. It seems to make it a DRIVE and not a partition. fyi..
regards..


----------



## Richierich

codespy said:


> Since the 3TB don't work.......can we fall back and see if a 2.5TB will work.....if there's a company that makes them?
> 
> Or maybe an eSata splitter for two smaller external drives.....
> 
> I'm starting to run out of recording room on my setup! :lol:


Buy another DVR and put a 2 TB drive in it and you'll have 4 TBs of Space and 100 Series Links and 4 Tuners to play with.


----------



## codespy

richierich said:


> Buy another DVR and put a 2 TB drive in it and you'll have 4 TBs of Space and 100 Series Links and 4 Tuners to play with.


I got that beat already with 21+ tuners and 500 Series Links and 7.5TB's of space.......I don't think I'll be rushing out to get an HMC when they come out either! :lol:


----------



## Richierich

codespy said:


> I got that beat already with 21+ tuners and 500 Series Links and 7.5TB's of space.......I don't think I'll be rushing out to get an HMC when they come out either! :lol:


Yes, I guess you and me and Rich584 and Tom Robertson are in a Special Category that Directv never thought about.

I've got 14 Tuners and 350 Series Links and 14 TBs of Storage Capacity so I think I am Good To Go!!! :hurah: :lol::lol::lol:

I think Poor Rich is down to 11 DVRs, 22 Tuners, 550 Series Links and 18.5 TBs of Space.

We definitely are not the Normal Directv Customer.


----------



## codespy

richierich said:


> Yes, I guess you and me and Rich584 and Tom Robertson are in a Special Category that Directv never thought about.
> 
> I've got 14 Tuners and 350 Series Links and 14 TBs of Storage Capacity so I think I am Good To Go!!! :hurah: :lol::lol::lol:
> 
> I think Poor Rich is down to 11 DVRs, 22 Tuners, 550 Series Links and 18.5 TBs of Space.
> 
> We definitely are not the Normal Directv Customer.


My wife lets me know all the time that I'm not normal. :lol::nono:


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> We definitely are not the *Normal* Directv Customer.


If they need any character witnesses...


----------



## Stuart Sweet

Guys...

I'd prefer this not be a general discussion thread. 

Thanks.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

So we've learned that Sata II is the standard used, and 2TB is the cap size for the drive. 

Lesson learned.


----------



## pennsylvaniaRON

hdtvfan0001 said:


> So we've learned that Sata II is the standard used, and 2TB is the cap size for the drive.
> 
> Lesson learned.


probably correct on the 2tb size. I'll get that WD 3TB drive tomorrow and finally chiesel it in stone, but lets wait and see regards..


----------



## hdtvfan0001

pennsylvaniaRON said:


> probably correct on the 2tb size. I'll get that WD 3TB drive tomorrow and finally chiesel it in stone, but lets wait and see regards..


I'll actually be rooting for ya to prove us wrong on the 2TB limit...but then again...I'd bet....


----------



## RobertE

Going to say it's not going to work for 2 reasons

1) Limitations of the linux kernal used
2) I believe the drive in question is one of the newer larger sector drives.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

RobertE said:


> Going to say it's not going to work for 2 reasons
> 
> 1) Limitations of the linux kernal used
> 2) I believe the drive in question is one of the newer larger sector drives.


I'd be listening to the expert here...good for me.


----------



## davel

Stuart Sweet said:


> Guys...
> 
> I'd prefer this not be a general discussion thread.
> 
> Thanks.


So delete the 10+ pages of crap in this thread. Frankly it is useless to read for the 5 posts of truly helpful information.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

davel said:


> So delete the 10+ pages of crap in this thread. Frankly it is useless to read for the 5 posts of truly helpful information.


Then again...with maybe 1% of people having HR24's as owned devices...this thread is really content for a very limited audience. Since what and how things can be done have been extensively covered, and also even a trial of something new (that didn't work)...there is really not much to add.


----------



## Stuart Sweet

davel said:


> So delete the 10+ pages of crap in this thread. Frankly it is useless to read for the 5 posts of truly helpful information.


Don't tempt me.


----------



## RobertE

Stuart Sweet said:


> Don't tempt me.


:bonk1:


----------



## pennsylvaniaRON

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I'll actually be rooting for ya to prove us wrong on the 2TB limit...but then again...I'd bet....


The 3Tb experiment is over. It's now official (and no surprise) that the D* dvr's of today cannot handle hard drives larger than 2TB.

When I installed the WD 3tb drive into an hr24-100 she ran the dvr self check. About 1 minute or so later a BSOD appeared with the error code 14-198. FWIW its a different code than the Hitachi 3tb came up with.

For curiosity sake I ran gparted on the drive and there were no changes made to it. Just **** it when in, it came out. 2.73tb of unallocated space...regards...


----------



## Richierich

Well, I guess when they say it has a Linux Kernel Limitation of 2 TB that they really meant it.

Now whether they will change that in the future who knows but I am guessing they did it because of the Limitations of the CPU and RAM involved in the older units and didn't want to overwork the CPU with the Burden of 3 or more TB of Recordings.

Just a WAG!!!


----------



## Rich

pennsylvaniaRON said:


> The 3Tb experiment is over. It's now official (and no surprise) that the D* dvr's of today cannot handle hard drives larger than 2TB.
> 
> When I installed the WD 3tb drive into an hr24-100 she ran the dvr self check. About 1 minute or so later a BSOD appeared with the error code 14-198. FWIW its a different code than the Hitachi 3tb came up with.
> 
> For curiosity sake I ran gparted on the drive and there were no changes made to it. Just **** it when in, it came out. 2.73tb of unallocated space...regards...


Thanx for trying Ron. Really appreciate the effort.

Rich


----------



## hdtvfan0001

pennsylvaniaRON said:


> The 3Tb experiment is over. It's now official (and no surprise) that the D* dvr's of today cannot handle hard drives larger than 2TB.
> 
> When I installed the WD 3tb drive into an hr24-100 she ran the dvr self check. About 1 minute or so later a BSOD appeared with the error code 14-198. FWIW its a different code than the Hitachi 3tb came up with.
> 
> For curiosity sake I ran gparted on the drive and there were no changes made to it. Just **** it when in, it came out. 2.73tb of unallocated space...regards...


Thank you for blazing the trail to at least try it...

While the outcome was predicted perhaps...sometimes surprises happen with experimentation (good ones, as well as not so good).

Appreciate your time, reporting, and effort.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

That some intersting, and telling, stuff pennsylvaniaRON. 

Thanks for the work. 

Mike


----------



## pennsylvaniaRON

Hey guys. All are welcome! That's what makes this forum so good. We all experiment and that's how we learn! 

Well at least I'll get to keep this 3TB drive. Since my disaster of losing all my stuff has been rectified, I've begun the arduous task of moving all the important programming off the dvr and onto the 3TB. Now I'm trimming out the commercials (been experimenting with video editing software) and then burning to blu ray! 

Lets see what happens with the next HR model 25? We might have to wait awhile because I don't think D* considers anything larger than a 1tb important. The only saving grace might be that hard drives are not expensive. But from a manufacturers point of view a 3tb today costs $200. Right now that's the entire cost of an HR24 with a 500GB drive. When 3TB come down to the $60 level then you might see the barrier broken. But once they break that barrier I guess by using GPT then the sky's the limit. Regards..


----------



## glen4cindy

davel said:


> I did an upgrade saving my old recordings, if you just nix the old drive it isn't needed. Clarified my original instructions.


This is exactly what I am looking for. I've been reading through this thread, page by page, looking for these instructions. My current drive is about 55% full, and I want to throw a 2TB drive in there in it's place, but, I was hoping to preserve everything like I did with my Tivo a couple or 3 years ago.

Is this possible? Looks like the person here saved the old recordings. I'd appreciate someone pointing me to where I can find the instructions for doing this.

Thank you.


----------



## P Smith

glen4cindy said:


> This is exactly what I am looking for. *I've been reading through this thread, page by page, looking for these instructions.* My current drive is about 55% full, and I want to throw a 2TB drive in there in it's place, but, I was hoping to preserve everything like I did with my Tivo a couple or 3 years ago.
> 
> Is this possible? Looks like the person here saved the old recordings. I'd appreciate someone pointing me to where I can find the instructions for doing this.
> 
> Thank you.


Try again  - page#1, post#20, URL is there ...


----------



## pennsylvaniaRON

I think this is what you want??

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=148760

regards,


----------



## newmartinr

Thanks for the info


----------



## Richierich

pennsylvaniaRON said:


> The 3Tb experiment is over. It's now official (and no surprise) that the D* dvr's of today cannot handle hard drives larger than 2TB.
> 
> When I installed the WD 3tb drive into an hr24-100 she ran the dvr self check. About 1 minute or so later a BSOD appeared with the error code 14-198. FWIW its a different code than the Hitachi 3tb came up with.
> 
> For curiosity sake I ran gparted on the drive and there were no changes made to it. Just **** it when in, it came out. 2.73tb of unallocated space...regards...


Well, now it is Official that 2 TB Kernel Limitation is what it is, a Limitation of the amount of allocated space that the Directv DVR can use as has been noted by a couple of others who tried this experiment.

I also believe that Directv thought that perhaps 3 TBs of Recordings would Overwork the CPU causing it to be horrendously Slow so even if you could do it the result in the end would be a Slow DVR!!! Just my $.02!!! 

Thanks though for your efforts on everyone's behalf so now we can put this Puppy to bed as it is Tired!!! :lol:


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> Well, now it is Official that 2 TB Kernel Limitation is what it is, a Limitation of the amount of allocated space that the Directv DVR can use as has been noted by a couple of others who tried this experiment.
> 
> I also believe that Directv thought that perhaps 3 TBs of Recordings would Overwork the CPU causing it to be horrendously Slow so even if you could do it the result in the end would be a Slow DVR!!! Just my $.02!!!
> 
> Thanks though for your efforts on everyone's behalf so now we can put this Puppy to bed as it is Tired!!! :lol:


One 2TB drive holds a ton of recordings...those like Rich who have *more than 1* HD DVR with 2TB in each realize that to an even greater degree.

The experiment results were interesting...glad they were shared.


----------



## palmgrower

I always wondered why I kept those old hotels cards...To open my HR24-500!

1 500GB seagate removed
1 2TB Seagate 64 MB Cache 7200 RPM STBD2000101 installed

30 minutes, thanks for the help and the photographs.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

palmgrower said:


> I always wondered why I kept those old hotels cards...To open my HR24-500!
> 
> 1 500GB seagate removed
> 1 2TB Seagate 64 MB Cache 7200 RPM STBD2000101 installed
> 
> 30 minutes, thanks for the help and the photographs.


Hopefully that's an owned and not a leased box.


----------



## palmgrower

Absolutely:sure:


----------



## hdtvfan0001

palmgrower said:


> Absolutely:sure:


No worries then. Enjoy.


----------



## Richierich

palmgrower said:


> I always wondered why I kept those old hotels cards...To open my HR24-500!
> 
> 1 500GB seagate removed
> 1 2TB Seagate 64 MB Cache 7200 RPM STBD2000101 installed
> 
> 30 minutes, thanks for the help and the photographs.


ENJOY!!!


----------



## Rich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> One 2TB drive holds a ton of recordings...those like Rich who have *more than 1* HD DVR with 2TB in each realize that to an even greater degree.
> 
> The experiment results were interesting...glad they were shared.


Yup, multiple HRs with 2TB drives in/on them are capable of more than enough storage.

Rich


----------



## Rich

palmgrower said:


> I always wondered why I kept those old hotels cards...To open my HR24-500!
> 
> 1 500GB seagate removed
> 1 2TB Seagate 64 MB Cache 7200 RPM STBD2000101 installed
> 
> 30 minutes, thanks for the help and the photographs.


I'd really be interested in how that Seagate performs. I had to dump all my Seagate Barracudas (at a considerable loss of money) because they were "chattering" horribly. What model name is your new HDD?

Rich


----------



## palmgrower

Seagate Barracuda 2000GB Model: STBD2000101


----------



## Rich

palmgrower said:


> Seagate Barracuda 2000GB Model: STBD2000101


Please let us know if it starts chattering. You'll know what I mean if it starts. Hopefully, they fixed the problem.

Rich


----------



## Rich

palmgrower said:


> Seagate Barracuda 2000GB Model: STBD2000101


Hmm. Perhaps the 64MB cache will make a difference.

Rich


----------



## palmgrower

OK


----------



## palmgrower

Just an update, my family claims they can tell which DVR is faster on their H25's, by fast forwarding thru recordings on either HR24-500. In fact they noted it twice already.


----------



## Rtm

Did anyone in here transfer their recordings to the new hard drive in their HR24? I find the older thread for the HR20-23 to not work for me.

I had no problem opening the 24 up and getting out the drive and plugged into a computer with two SATA bays and booting to gparted


----------



## palmgrower

What didn't work ?


----------



## Rtm

palmgrower said:


> What didn't work ?


Well I'm confused as to why I would be typing hr20 or even hr24 when the drive is not named that and I get error just trying to do mkdir /mnt/fap

mkdir /mnt/fap
mkdir /mnt/hr20
mount -t xfs -o rtdev=/dev/sda3 /dev/sda2 /mnt/fap
mount -t xfs -o rtdev=/dev/sdb3 /dev/sdb2 /mnt/hr20


----------



## CCarncross

Rtm said:


> Well I'm confused as to why I would be typing hr20 or even hr24 when the drive is not named that and I get error just trying to do mkdir /mnt/fap
> 
> mkdir /mnt/fap
> mkdir /mnt/hr20
> mount -t xfs -o rtdev=/dev/sda3 /dev/sda2 /mnt/fap
> mount -t xfs -o rtdev=/dev/sdb3 /dev/sdb2 /mnt/hr20


The actual names used are completely irrelevant as long as you remain consistent throughout the instructions. The person who developed those instructions was copying the HDD from his HR20 to Seagate FreeAgent Pro drive. Hence HR20 and fap....you can use old and new or anything you want but everywhere that name is used in the original instructions would have to be changed as well.

Bottom line, if you exactly follow the instructions, you don't need to know anything about linux, its just following the directions exactly. graceful shutdowns of both drives...correctly identify new and old when connected to your computer, EXACTLY type every line of the instructions. This procedure will work for any HR model from Directv currently, they all use the exact same file format system on the drives for storage of the shows and series links etc...


----------



## Rtm

CCarncross said:


> The actual names used are completely irrelevant as long as you remain consistent throughout the instructions. The person who developed those instructions was copying the HDD from his HR20 to Seagate FreeAgent Pro drive. Hence HR20 and fap....you can use old and new or anything you want but everywhere that name is used in the original instructions would have to be changed as well.
> 
> Bottom line, if you exactly follow the instructions, you don't need to know anything about linux, its just following the directions exactly. graceful shutdowns of both drives...correctly identify new and old when connected to your computer, EXACTLY type every line of the instructions. This procedure will work for any HR model from Directv currently, they all use the exact same file format system on the drives for storage of the shows and series links etc...


I understand thats like a pseudo stand in name for the linux thats just what you are identifying sda or b as. I got it I've just had a hard time formatting the 1TB even though the directv receiver says it has formatted it.

Thank you very much, contrary to what has been said at the beginning of this thread I find the HR24 the easier to open than the HR22.


----------



## Rtm

I just continually get that the drive is unallocated even doing the graceful power down the new drive.


----------



## P Smith

Do record something to it ...


----------



## Rtm

P Smith said:


> Do record something to it ...


I got unallocated even after I did the process and heard the drive spinning but thought nothing was happening. The drive from the HR24 WD Green had like 4 partitions and the drive I was putting in it Seagate Barracuda.12 7200rpm never showed partitions just unallocated. Even after the process was a "success".

alas putting it in the DVR my recordings and settings were on it and I now had 78% free over 49% before. Seagates a little clickly but the DVR is insanely fast I mean insanely fast it's crazy.


----------



## P Smith

Sorry, can't follow you ... you combined together two DVR two (or more ?) drives, processes ...
What is done ? What is working ? Which DVR ? Which drive ? Where ? ...


----------



## wcjulyan

I just replaced the internal drive on an (owned) HR24-200 with a WD20-EURS (AV-GP).

Thanks to the pioneers on here who went before me, I wasn't surprised or defeated by the problems I encountered. Opening the case was not difficult, due to the helpful information on this forum (finding the switches and opening them with strips cut from credit cards was relatively easy). 

I was expecting the issues with the -200 drive (thinner vertically than normal HDDs) and its cage. I used oldvanhavenrules' suggestion of plastic zip ties to secure the new hard drive (since the holes don't line up with a normal-sized drive). 

The most difficult part for me was removing the two screws that connect the drive cage to the back of the case. I didn't have the proper tool for that.

Anyway, it's working fine, and is not noisy or hot.


----------



## Rich

wcjulyan said:


> I just replaced the internal drive on an (owned) HR24-200 with a WD20-EURS (AV-GP).
> 
> Thanks to the pioneers on here who went before me, I wasn't surprised or defeated by the problems I encountered. Opening the case was not difficult, due to the helpful information on this forum (finding the switches and opening them with strips cut from credit cards was relatively easy).
> 
> I was expecting the issues with the -200 drive (thinner vertically than normal HDDs) and its cage. I used oldvanhavenrules' suggestion of plastic zip ties to secure the new hard drive (since the holes don't line up with a normal-sized drive).
> 
> The most difficult part for me was removing the two screws that connect the drive cage to the back of the case. I didn't have the proper tool for that.
> 
> Anyway, it's working fine, and is not noisy or hot.


Huh. I was leery of that method of securing the HDD. Did you use the white (indoor usage and prone to heat related breaking) or the black (outdoor usage and not as prone to heat related problems) wire ties?

Rich


----------



## wcjulyan

Rich said:


> Huh. I was leery of that method of securing the HDD. Did you use the white (indoor usage and prone to heat related breaking) or the black (outdoor usage and not as prone to heat related problems) wire ties?
> 
> Rich


Uh oh! I hadn't thought about that. By chance (what I had available), I used some of each.


----------



## Rich

wcjulyan said:


> Uh oh! I hadn't thought about that. By chance (what I had available), I used some of each.


Probably doesn't matter unless you bought the ties from an electrical supply house.

Rich


----------



## Rtm

P Smith said:


> Sorry, can't follow you ... you combined together two DVR two (or more ?) drives, processes ...
> What is done ? What is working ? Which DVR ? Which drive ? Where ? ...


I put a new drive in the first SATA bay of the computer and the DVRs in the second bay then copied the original from the DVR to the new one. I had formatted the new drive in the DVR but it said unallocated still once put back in the computer and then again after copying the original drive to the new drive, the new drive still showed no partitions and unallocated even after refreshing drives/devices.

But I'm happy with it now.


----------



## P Smith

Something wrong with your PC; if DVR working fine with new HDD, then it has partitions.


----------



## Rtm

P Smith said:


> Something wrong with your PC; if DVR working fine with new HDD, then it has partitions.


It is working fine in the DVR but was making a lot of clicking noise and I decided to overnight from Amazon a WD20EURS(I got one from after the flood March 2012  didn't know they were back in production) because it doesn't have error correcting.

Well the Seagate I found out is gpt and it should be mbr(ms-dos) I believe this is correct? Well the Seagate shows only one partition and its fat32 I'm trying to transfer my 1TB Seagate I put in like 3 days ago to a new 2TB WD.

Can I convert it to mbr without destroying data or somehow getting my stuff over?


----------



## Rtm

FYI Disk management is seeing the 3 separate partitions in Windows 7


----------



## P Smith

That's close to real: yes, it has MBR-style partition table: 0.5 GB SWAP, EXT3+XFS:10 GB and XFS RT extension for rest of space.


----------



## rlinsurf

Hi--

I'm desperate. I tried to have Weaknees upgrade my HR24 sent ,the unit back, it now freezes every few minutes, and they're refusing to fix it. So it's unusable for the Olympics 

Anyway, I saw several posts on upgrading it yourself, and please be aware, I do in fact fully own my HR24! I see the images of where the clips are located with the case already open:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2469713#post2469713

But when I look at the sides, all I see are what look like empty holes? Can someone enlighten me where the side clips are located? This is an HR24-500.


----------



## palmgrower

4 corners, shove old credit cards/hotel keys in the 4 corners, you can feel them unlock


----------



## palmgrower

T10 Torx to remove drive cage, after you remove the cover


----------



## rlinsurf

Wow. Thanks, guys. I'll give it a try. I also better ask how to release the top clips? If they are facing away from you, do they push forward or back?


----------



## Davenlr

Need 3 credit cards, slide em in between the clips to hold the clips open, and the top will pop off...at least on my HR24-500 thats how it worked.


----------



## rlinsurf

Davenlr said:


> Need 3 credit cards, slide em in between the clips to hold the clips open, and the top will pop off...at least on my HR24-500 thats how it worked.


Ok, now I'm confused. I used 4 credit card at the sides, and did indeed hear a click near the top for each one. Then I saw two clips with releases I could see at the front, and released each one and shoved a credit card in each to prevent re-locking. But you're right, there seem to be 3 larger clips attaching the front to the casing, and I don't see how the credit cards could help. Here's an image of what I've done so far, and the clips in question:



















Are these the three you mean? I don't see how to get a credit card in there?


----------



## JerryMeeker

"rlinsurf" said:


> Ok, now I'm confused. I used 4 credit card at the sides, and did indeed hear a click near the top for each one. Then I saw two clips with releases I could see at the front, and released each one and shoved a credit card in each to prevent re-locking. But you're right, there seem to be 3 larger clips attaching the front to the casing, and I don't see how the credit cards could help. Here's an image of what I've done so far, and the clips in question:
> 
> Are these the three you mean? I don't see how to get a credit card in there?


Looking at your picture, it looks like you have successfully retracted the four side clips and inserted the cards so the clips stay retracted. On the front, there are only two clearly visible clips. The way I do it, I use a needle-nose pliers to grab one side of the undercarriage, gently lift it with one hand while inserting a screwdriver to loosen the front clip towards the side you are lifting out. Once the undercarriage moves a bit, you don't need to worry about the front clip popping back in place. Keep lifting while you use the screwdriver to loosen the second front clip, and the undercarriage should pop right up and out.

It's hard to describe the actions, but once you get the hang of it, it becomes very simple.

Good luck on the repair. I have upgraded both of my (owned) HR24-500's with 2TB WD20EURS drives. Very quiet, and plenty of space!


----------



## Blurayfan

"rlinsurf" said:


> Ok, now I'm confused. I used 4 credit card at the sides, and did indeed hear a click near the top for each one. Then I saw two clips with releases I could see at the front, and released each one and shoved a credit card in each to prevent re-locking. But you're right, there seem to be 3 larger clips attaching the front to the casing, and I don't see how the credit cards could help. Here's an image of what I've done so far, and the clips in question:
> 
> Are these the three you mean? I don't see how to get a credit card in there?


The three clips circled don't lock the cover. Your picture shows you successfully unlocked the sides. The front clips are small and hidden in the little squares on the bottom. To unlock these you need a piece of a credit card. The bigger ones won't fit in the squares. Sometimes the clips need two pieces of card inserted together in each to hold the clips open.


----------



## rlinsurf

So the two credit cards at the front are also right? If so, I guess I'll try the pliers thing next 

Thanks.


----------



## Davenlr

Its been a long time since I did mine, but I didnt have to use pliars. I just had the cards where you have them, and the top popped off without any problem. They might have changed the case since I got mine though.


----------



## Blurayfan

"rlinsurf" said:


> So the two credit cards at the front are also right? If so, I guess I'll try the pliers thing next
> 
> Thanks.


No the two cards on front are not correct. The clips are located inside the squares right beneath your cards. The cards need to be inserted in those places to unlock the clips. Because the latches are not right against front, but slightly inward.


----------



## rlinsurf

No, I pulled the clips back, and then inserted the cards to make sure they didn't lock back in place. That's not right?


----------



## rlinsurf

Ok, I think I see what you're saying. The clips need to held back from the inside. So now instead of the two cards. I used a couple of knives instead. But the thing still seems totally solid in place and wont budge.


----------



## Blurayfan

"rlinsurf" said:


> Ok, I think I see what you're saying. The clips need to held back from the inside. So now instead of the two cards. I used a couple of knives instead. But the thing still seems totally solid in place and wont budge.


Here is what worked for me. 
Two pieces of cards in each location. You could use a flashlight to study the clips and see where is the best place to insert your preferred unlocking tool.


----------



## P Smith

And a picture of the locations ?


----------



## Blurayfan

P Smith said:


> And a picture of the locations ?


Location circled in green.


----------



## P Smith

Now all stars lined up ... taah-daah ! the box is opening ...


----------



## rlinsurf

Eureka!

Ok, I see what I did wrong. The cards on the sides weren't actually deep enough down. They need to go far enough -- I set them all the way down in the end -- not just to hear the click of the release at the top, but also at the bottom of the clip. Then the whole thing just lifted off... like buttah 

After that, a 10 torx at each corner at the bottom of the hard drive carrier. Lift the carrier out, being careful not to damage or pull too much on the still attached wires. Remove the side phillips head screws at the side of the carrier. Carefully press down on the latches at the top of each connector -- one for power and the other the sata cable, to remove them. And then finally, unscrew the hard drive spring-lifter attached at the bottom of the drive using the phillips head again. Voila! The HD is successfully and easily removed.

Thanks to you all, I now have no idea why I was ever intimidated to do this. You guys are awesome 

I might post pictures of my putting it back together if I have time tomorrow.


----------



## Blurayfan

"rlinsurf" said:


> Eureka!
> 
> Ok, I see what I did wrong. The cards on the sides weren't actually deep enough down. They need to go far enough -- I set them all the way down in the end -- not just to hear the click of the release at the top, but also at the bottom of the clip. Then the whole thing just lifted off... like buttah
> 
> After that, a 10 torx at each corner at the bottom of the hard drive carrier, then lift the carrier out, being careful not to damage or pull too much on the still attached wires. Remove the side phillips head screws at the side of the carrier. Carefully press down on the latches at the top of each connector -- one for power and the other the sata cable, to remove them. And then finally, unscrew the hard drive spring-lifter attached at the bottom of the drive using the phillips head again. Voila! The HD is successfully and easily removed.
> 
> Thanks to you all, I now have no idea why I was ever intimidated to do this. You guys are awesome


Good job.


----------



## palmgrower

Congratulations


----------



## Richierich

It is quite easy once you understand how the clips lock into place so you can slide a flathead screwdriver or credit card into the slot to pry the clip away from the slot.

Very easy for me and took less than 10 minutes.


----------



## Rich

He would have had a much simpler time if he had cut a couple credit cards into strips narrow enough to fit in the clamp slots. How did all of you miss that? Sticking a whole credit card into those slots is not the way to do it. We've written enough posts about how to do it using credit card "strips" for it to be common knowledge. That one thumbnail picture looks to be about the right size.

Rich


----------



## goondog71

My HR24-500 has a power issue and will not turn on. I do not think there is anything wrong with the hard drive. I got a replacement an HR24-200, I am wondering if it is possible to move the hard drive, with all my recordings to the new HR24. Do different manufactures set up the interface with the hard drives differently?

Thanks,
Jay


----------



## P Smith

Interface is the same - SATA, unified for all such drives.

You can't move the drive to other DVR, its content encrypted by the old DVR's unique key.


----------



## Rich

goondog71 said:


> My HR24-500 has a power issue and will not turn on. I do not think there is anything wrong with the hard drive. I got a replacement an HR24-200, I am wondering if it is possible to move the hard drive, with all my recordings to the new HR24. Do different manufactures set up the interface with the hard drives differently?
> 
> Thanks,
> Jay


You lost all your recordings. That 24-500 can be fixed if you still have it. Then you'd save your recordings, but that's the only way it will happen.

Rich


----------



## drpjr

I recieved two HR24-500's under the PP last weekend. Using this page and the one previous I was able to swap out the HD's fairly easily. Now that I know how much pressure it takes to slide in the credit cards I would consider it easy to do. It takes more pressure than I would have been comfortable with without knowledge learned here. FYI I was able to use a business card "strip" for the two non perimeter clips. I'm really glad the info needed was on the last page as this is a looong thread.:lol:


----------



## palmgrower

HR34 was almost as easy, just make sure you own a tamper proof torx T10, 2TB WD works great!


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Based on a bunch of posts in recent weeks/months...*this might be a good time for a friendly reminder* that tampering with/opening up a leased HD DVR invalidates the warranty and opens up the chance that one may have to eventually pay the retail replacement price to DirecTV for that activity.

Only owned units are eligible for device opening, and since there are so very few HR24's owned in the field...it raises the question how may people may already have gone down the wrong path.

As for the process itself...if one knows what they're doing...it's a brief task to execute.

Best bet for a leased DVR and/or if not sure - use an external eSata drive setup.


----------



## Rich

palmgrower said:


> HR34 was almost as easy, just make sure you own a tamper proof torx T10, 2TB WD works great!


They are actually called "security" Torx wrenches.

Rich


----------



## Richierich

Rich said:


> He would have had a much simpler time if he had cut a couple credit cards into strips narrow enough to fit in the clamp slots. How did all of you miss that? Sticking a whole credit card into those slots is not the way to do it. Rich


Yes, cutting up an old Credit Card into Strips is the Best Way to Get R Done!!!! :lol:


----------



## Rich

Richierich said:


> Yes, cutting up an old Credit Card into Strips is the Best Way to Get R Done!!!! :lol:


Can't imagine how he got the whole credit card over the clips. That top must be a lot more malleable than I thought.

Rich


----------



## palmgrower

It is


----------



## P Smith

palmgrower said:



> It is


If you can prove that by posting your pictures ...


----------



## Rich

P Smith said:


> If you can prove that by posting your pictures ...


I saw the picture that was posted with full credit cards on the sides.

Rich


----------



## P Smith

I recall seen cutted cards, but may be you got other "manual" ... any URL left in your browser's cash ?


----------



## Rich

P Smith said:


> I recall seen cutted cards, but may be you got other "manual" ... any URL left in your browser's cash ?


No, but you can search for it... :lol:

Rich


----------



## P Smith

effect of "boomerang" ...duh !


----------



## Rich

P Smith said:


> effect of "boomerang" ...duh !


Sorry, I just couldn't help myself... :lol:

Rich


----------



## Richierich

Nothing better than popping a 2TB WD 24/7 Drive in an HR24-500 and just sitting back with a Big Ole Smile on your face.

No more problems with the External Drive Enclosure not working right.

Rich I steered you in the right direction didn't I???

Internal Drive is the way to go if you Own your DVR!!! :hurah:


----------



## P Smith

You guys should be connected for eternal mutual happiness... sorry, I recall old tale about an elephant and fly.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

P Smith said:


> You guys should be connected for eternal mutual happiness... sorry, I recall old tale about an elephant and fly.


:lol:

Somehow it seems fitting that Rich and RichieRich have something in common.


----------



## Richierich

P Smith said:


> You guys should be connected for eternal mutual happiness... sorry, I recall old tale about an elephant and fly.


We are alike in many ways especially when it comes to Directv and having more DVRs than most people can imagine or dream possible. :lol:

This is my Drug of Choice and I Like It!!!


----------



## P Smith

And happy as that elephant ... jealously said.


----------



## Richierich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> :lol:
> 
> Somehow it seems fitting that Rich and RichieRich have something in common.


Yes, we do and with what we have both done we are Very Pleased With Our DIRECTV and the way that it works for us!!!

Of course, we are Not the Norm!!! :lol:


----------



## Rich

Richierich said:


> Nothing better than popping a 2TB WD 24/7 Drive in an HR24-500 and just sitting back with a Big Ole Smile on your face.
> 
> No more problems with the External Drive Enclosure not working right.
> 
> Rich I steered you in the right direction didn't I???


Yup, you sure did.



> Internal Drive is the way to go if you Own your DVR!!! :hurah:


They do work better. I hope D* isn't gonna concentrate on only Genie-like DVRs. I like the flexibility of an HR with a 2TB drive on or in it.

Rich


----------



## Rich

P Smith said:


> And happy as that elephant ...* jealously* said.


That's one of the reasons you'll never see my setup in print.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Richierich said:


> Yes, we do and with what we have both done we are Very Pleased With Our DIRECTV and the way that it works for us!!!
> 
> Of course, we are Not the Norm!!! :lol:


Yup, I'm very satisfied with D* and it's products and (I never thought I'd say this) the Techs that I've been getting for the last couple years.

Rich


----------



## P Smith

Rich said:


> That's one of the reasons you'll never see my setup in print.
> 
> Rich


If I did know you are in NJ that time when I've been in Phily and did a trip using Turnpike to NJ small city to visit my old friend ...  it was in before millennium ...


----------



## Rich

P Smith said:


> If I did know you are in NJ that time when I've been in Phily and did a trip using Turnpike to NJ small city to visit my old friend ...  it was in before millennium ...


You would have found me in D* TiVo hell. Almost jumped ship.

Rich


----------



## tivoreno

palmgrower said:


> HR34 was almost as easy...


Please elaborate.


----------



## palmgrower

tivoreno said:


> Please elaborate.


I had to buy a Security/Tamper Proof T10 Torx in order to do the job easily.


----------



## Richierich

Rich said:


> That's one of the reasons (jealously) you'll never see my setup in print.
> Rich


I guess I should Delete my Setup Reference in my Signature. :lol:


----------



## tivoreno

palmgrower said:


> I had to buy a Security/Tamper Proof T10 Torx in order to do the job easily.


Sorry, I meant about opening the case. Cheers.


----------



## Rich

Richierich said:


> I guess I should Delete my Setup Reference in my Signature. :lol:


I meant to say "jealousy" in my post. Damn, I read every post carefully before I submit it and I missed that... :nono2:

I also think some saner folks than you and I would think I'm nutz!!! And we're still in an economic hole and some folks just don't want to see what we've got.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Richierich said:


> I guess I should Delete my Setup Reference in my Signature. :lol:


Oh, you moved Pete's word into my sentence! No need for me to change anything. Little things like this make me happy.....:lol:

Rich


----------



## Richierich

Rich said:


> I meant to say "jealousy" in my post. Damn, I read every post carefully before I submit it and I missed that... :nono2:
> 
> I also think some saner folks than you and I would think I'm nutz!!! And we're still in an economic hole and some folks just don't want to see what we've got.
> Rich


Yes, I know what you mean as there are several members here that hate me because I speak about how many DVRs I have or my 2 TB Drives or my expensive APC S15 but that is the Way of the World.

The Have Nots Have Always Hated Those Who Have Regardless Of How The Got It!!!

I as well as you worked hard to get what we have so we deserve it and shouldn't be hated for it by those who are Jealous!!!


----------



## Rich

Richierich said:


> Yes, I know what you mean as there are several members here that hate me because I speak about how many DVRs I have or my 2 TB Drives or my expensive APC S15 but that is the Way of the World.
> 
> The Have Nots Have Always Hated Those Who Have Regardless Of How The Got It!!!
> 
> I as well as you worked hard to get what we have so we deserve it and shouldn't be hated for it by those who are Jealous!!!


I dunno. I still feel like it's a house of cards that could collapse at any moment.

Rich


----------



## Sea bass

Western Digital 2 TB (WD20EADS) is recommended throughout this thread. Is this the best drive available? I want a long lasting HD. Thanks.


----------



## Davenlr

Sea bass said:


> Western Digital 2 TB (WD20EADS) is recommended throughout this thread. Is this the best drive available? I want a long lasting HD. Thanks.


Ive used those, and Seagate 2TB Barracudas. Never had any issues with either. I like the Barracudas because of the large cache and spindle speed with my 4 and 5 tuner DVRs. Just a little overhead (or some will say overkill). Warrantys are changing though. Its not a standard 5 years anymore, so check the warranty before you buy.


----------



## P Smith

I did mention Seagate here http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=3168156&postcount=2481 for AV market like the DVRs.


----------



## Sixto

Sea bass;3173581 said:


> Western Digital 2 TB (WD20EADS) is recommended throughout this thread. Is this the best drive available? I want a long lasting HD. Thanks.


You want the AV-GP series.

They're EURS. Th EA stuff isn't the AV-GP series.

2TB is WD20EURS.


----------



## CCarncross

Sea bass said:


> Western Digital 2 TB (WD20EADS) is recommended throughout this thread. Is this the best drive available? I want a long lasting HD. Thanks.


That is not the AV drive, and I believe that drive is not even made anymore. The older model AVGPC drive was the EVDS. Here is the current list of WD AVGP drives from their website:

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.aspx?id=150


----------



## Rich

Sixto said:


> You want the AV-GP series.
> 
> They're EURS. Th EA stuff isn't the AV-GP series.
> 
> 2TB is WD20EURS.


I've been running two 2TB EADS in two HR-24s for as long as the 24s have been out. They might not be AV-GP HDDs, but I've had no problems with them at all. I also use a few EARS and an EARX and they run well, too. Might have an EURS or two, lost track of what was in the HRs a long time ago.

Rich


----------



## Sixto

Yep, most drives will work, it's just that the AV-GP series were tweaked for the task, but again most drives will work.


----------



## Rich

Sixto said:


> Yep, most drives will work, it's just that the AV-GP series were tweaked for the task, but again most drives will work.


Yup, I usually just buy the cheapest one, but I'm very frugal... :lol:

Rich


----------



## Richierich

Rich said:


> I've been running two 2TB EADS in two HR-24s for as long as the 24s have been out. They might not be AV-GP HDDs, but I've had no problems with them at all. I also use a few EARS and an EARX and they run well, too. Might have an EURS or two, lost track of what was in the HRs a long time ago.
> Rich


I was the First Person here at DBSTALK to buy a 2 TB WD20EADS Drive and I have bought 5 more since then and they all work very well as nin my 5 HR24-500s and my 2 HR23-700s. I have Not had one problem with any of them.

However, the WD20EURS was designed for 24/7 Use in a DVR so that would be what I would purchase now if I had it to do all over again.

Also, the Larger Cache helps reduce Problems associated with Paging so it helps cut down on Sluggishness.


----------



## Sea bass

Thanks all for the great info!


----------



## Richierich

Sea bass said:


> Thanks all for the great info!


You're welcome and Enjoy!!!


----------



## palmgrower

Good day

One of the 2TB Seagate 64 MB Cache 7200 RPM STBD2000101 I purchased 26 months ago started acting weird. 

It failed the Smart test. Replaced it with new of same model. Gparted is the best. Working great, then AM21N stopped receiving Off-Air, replaced it with new .

I assume it is to be expected, hard drives wear out.

All three receivers are on UPS battery backups.


----------



## madmadworld

thanks for all the help in this thread
many posts.......... #165 helped alot.


----------



## P Smith

palmgrower said:


> Good day
> 
> One of the 2TB Seagate 64 MB Cache 7200 RPM STBD2000101 I purchased 26 months ago started acting weird.
> 
> It failed the Smart test. Replaced it with new of same model. Gparted is the best. Working great, then AM21N stopped receiving Off-Air, replaced it with new .
> 
> I assume it is to be expected, hard drives wear out.
> 
> All three receivers are on UPS battery backups.


to know a health of your drive(s) use PC with SATA port and run MHDD/Victoria (I'm asking/offer this so many times... man !)


----------



## RunnerFL

P Smith said:


> to know a health of your drive(s) use PC with SATA port and run MHDD/Victoria (I'm asking/offer this so many times... man !)


It failed a SMART test, he says so in his post, that's all you need to know that the drive is bad.


----------



## P Smith

the DVR's obscure test's results telling nothing and questionable at least 
any knowledgeable person would have many suggestions what would the issues which lead to other problems by a "report" of such "test" - cables, connections, PCB, CPU with integrated SATA ctrl, etc


----------



## dpeters11

I'm not sure I'd consider SMART tests obscure.


----------



## RunnerFL

P Smith said:


> the DVR's obscure test's results telling nothing and questionable at least
> any knowledgeable person would have many suggestions what would the issues which lead to other problems by a "report" of such "test" - cables, connections, PCB, CPU with integrated SATA ctrl, etc


A SMART test is a SMART test regardless of who's machine it's on. Every SMART test is the same on every device. If SMART tells you the drive is bad then the drive is bad, end of story.


----------



## P Smith

The problem is if you do by normal program, you will get code,status,etc instead of cryptic code by DTV FW.


----------



## RunnerFL

P Smith said:


> The problem is if you do by normal program, you will get code,status,etc instead of cryptic code by DTV FW.


The codes are not cryptic at all, unless you don't understand English or numbers. You get the same SMART error codes as you would from any other SMART test on any other device.


----------



## P Smith

And no SMART table  what is most important part of the inquiry.


----------



## P Smith

About English it was most idiotic remark.


----------



## Rich

P Smith said:


> About English it was most idiotic remark.


Might be a good time to chill out, Pete.

Rich


----------



## P Smith

OK.


----------



## billysworld

After 5 years of deleting movies to make space on the hard drive (3 HR24-500s) I'm in the process of attempting the upgrade.
I ordered the WD20EURX and waiting on delivery. My goal is also to copy the content over to the new hard drive.
Going through the various posts and pages I'm now familiar with the clips that lock the side of the case. However I'm still perplexed by the latches on top.
Can anyone email pictures of the latches that are hidden under the top of the casing as well as how to gain access to them.
Also which security torx driver do I need for the HR24-500, the T10 or T8?


Thanks in advance.


----------



## Rich

billysworld said:


> After 5 years of deleting movies to make space on the hard drive (3 HR24-500s) I'm in the process of attempting the upgrade.
> I ordered the WD20EURX and waiting on delivery. My goal is also to copy the content over to the new hard drive.
> Going through the various posts and pages I'm now familiar with the clips that lock the side of the case. However I'm still perplexed by the latches on top.
> Can anyone email pictures of the latches that are hidden under the top of the casing as well as how to gain access to them.
> Also which security torx driver do I need for the HR24-500, the T10 or T8?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


You might need the T10 in security mode, I've always used that one so I don't really know if they changed the screws so that a regular T10 might now be used. You should be able to find pictures for what you need to do, run a search, I'm pretty sure we've got them somewhere. I think if you use a small flashlight and peer into the holes on the bottom of the 500 you should be able to see the latches. I think there are...I know there are two of them, might be three. Two for sure and easy to see. Every time I have to open one up, I know I use a flashlight to find the latches and place the plastic strips in the proper place. It's really not complicated, once you get it open you'll see how easy it was.

Rich


----------



## palmgrower

Old Hotel Key Cards worked great for the 4 corners


----------



## billysworld

Rich said:


> You might need the T10 in security mode, I've always used that one so I don't really know if they changed the screws so that a regular T10 might now be used. You should be able to find pictures for what you need to do, run a search, I'm pretty sure we've got them somewhere. I think if you use a small flashlight and peer into the holes on the bottom of the 500 you should be able to see the latches. I think there are...I know there are two of them, might be three. Two for sure and easy to see. Every time I have to open one up, I know I use a flashlight to find the latches and place the plastic strips in the proper place. It's really not complicated, once you get it open you'll see how easy it was.
> 
> Rich


Thank you for your response Rich.
I've searched extensively and any posted pictures indicating location of the clips for the hr24-500 seem to have been deleted and or missing.


----------



## Rich

palmgrower said:


> Old Hotel Key Cards worked great for the 4 corners


So do access cards. And old credit cards.

Rich


----------



## Rich

billysworld said:


> Thank you for your response Rich.
> I've searched extensively and any posted pictures indicating location of the clips for the hr24-500 seem to have been deleted and or missing.


Well, the clips on the sides are easy to find with a screwdriver (to gently pull the case out from the guts) and a flashlight. As I said the clips on the bottom of the 500 are easy to find with a flashlight. They look just like clips. Seriously. Just look for the holes in the bottom. I usually wear a head lamp when I do an HDD internal swap. A good needlenose plier also will come in handy for getting the screws holding the HDD's sled in place out and putting them back in. It's only a 15-30 minute job.

Rich


----------



## billysworld

Rich said:


> Well, the clips on the sides are easy to find with a screwdriver (to gently pull the case out from the guts) and a flashlight. As I said the clips on the bottom of the 500 are easy to find with a flashlight. They look just like clips. Seriously. Just look for the holes in the bottom. I usually wear a head lamp when I do an HDD internal swap. A good needlenose plier also will come in handy for getting the screws holding the HDD's sled in place out and putting them back in. It's only a 15-30 minute job.
> 
> Rich


Thanks again for the advice. I'll report in again once the new hard drives are hopefully in their new homes.


----------



## Rich

billysworld said:


> Thanks again for the advice. I'll report in again once the new hard drives are hopefully in their new homes.


You're welcome. Take your time, it will probably take longer than 15 minutes for you to figure out where everything is. Have patience and you'll breeze thru. It's really not hard. The first time is kinda hard, but the next time you do it, you'll have no problems.

Rich


----------



## billysworld

Rich said:


> You're welcome. Take your time, it will probably take longer than 15 minutes for you to figure out where everything is. Have patience and you'll breeze thru. It's really not hard. The first time is kinda hard, but the next time you do it, you'll have no problems.
> 
> Rich


Successfully opened the case of the HR24-500!
The only challenge was releasing the two clips holding the case lid.
Well the clips turned out to be tabs. Press in to release and the case lifted upwards from the rear to the front.
The required security torx screwdriver is the T8.

The WD 2TB drive was installed temporarily. Phase two is to copy the existing drive.
After powering on the HR24-500, it runs through its paces before finally getting a picture on the tv screen. When clicking on List it shows that the hard drive capacity is 100%.
Heres my question, am I supposed to see a message that indicates the new hard drive is being formatted during the bootup process?
Or am I safe to proceed to the next step and copy the data from the old hard drive.

Thank you Rich for your words of wisdom.


----------



## inkahauts

When it gets to live tv, if you can use the buffer you are good and it's been formatted...


----------



## Rich

billysworld said:


> Successfully opened the case of the HR24-500!
> The only challenge was releasing the two clips holding the case lid.
> Well the clips turned out to be tabs. Press in to release and the case lifted upwards from the rear to the front.
> The required security torx screwdriver is the T8.
> 
> The WD 2TB drive was installed temporarily. Phase two is to copy the existing drive.
> After powering on the HR24-500, it runs through its paces before finally getting a picture on the tv screen. When clicking on List it shows that the hard drive capacity is 100%.
> Heres my question, am I supposed to see a message that indicates the new hard drive is being formatted during the bootup process?
> Or am I safe to proceed to the next step and copy the data from the old hard drive.
> 
> Thank you Rich for your words of wisdom.


Yup, it's fully formatted during the initial boot up.

Rich


----------



## billysworld

Rich said:


> Yup, it's fully formatted during the initial boot up.
> 
> Rich


Thank you for confirming.
On to phase 2 tomorrow


----------



## Rich

billysworld said:


> Thank you for confirming.
> On to phase 2 tomorrow


That, I've never had to do. Hope you do well with that, too.

Rich


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## jallis47

Has anyone sucessfully cloned an external drive that was hooked to a HR44? I have a 2TB external drive that is starting to give me problems and I was hoping to clone it so I wouldn't lose all the recordings.


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## billysworld

Rich said:


> That, I've never had to do. Hope you do well with that, too.
> 
> Rich


Success!
Upgraded to WD 2TB drive
All movie contents from original 500GB drive transferred 
The internal temperature is now 110 degrees vs 125


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## palmgrower

Congratulations


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## billysworld

Not sure if this is the right place for this posting, please move if its not.

Last December I upgraded to the WD 2TB drive on 2 HR24s. I'm now having an issue with one of the HR24s
This past weekend attempting to watch directv. I want to view the guide and the screen displays a guide with data missing. The missing data is replaced with a black screen and specs of red tint that appear to be remnants of an exploding firecracker.
At this point the tv is attempting to display a picture but shows nothing but the corrupt guide with red sparkles. The tv cycles between this and a black screen screen showing the input selection.
This continues for twenty minutes and without any intervention from me corrects itself.

The second time this happened I was watching a recording from the PLAYLIST. The playback started freezing and audio stuttered. Switching to live tv the Guide is slow to respond, picture would black out, stuttering audio and freezing.
Turning the dvr on and off multiple times resolved the issue.

Has anyone seen this issue before?


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## Rich

billysworld said:


> Not sure if this is the right place for this posting, please move if its not.
> 
> Last December I upgraded to the WD 2TB drive on 2 HR24s. I'm now having an issue with one of the HR24s
> This past weekend attempting to watch directv. I want to view the guide and the screen displays a guide with data missing. The missing data is replaced with a black screen and specs of red tint that appear to be remnants of an exploding firecracker.
> At this point the tv is attempting to display a picture but shows nothing but the corrupt guide with red sparkles. The tv cycles between this and a black screen screen showing the input selection.
> This continues for twenty minutes and without any intervention from me corrects itself.
> 
> The second time this happened I was watching a recording from the PLAYLIST. The playback started freezing and audio stuttered. Switching to live tv the Guide is slow to respond, picture would black out, stuttering audio and freezing.
> Turning the dvr on and off multiple times resolved the issue.
> 
> Has anyone seen this issue before?


I'd really be looking at the new drive you installed.

Rich


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## billysworld

Rich said:


> I'd really be looking at the new drive you installed.
> 
> Rich


Hi Rich

Thanks for your response.

Here's a link to the video
View attachment IMG_0140.MOV

The video is captured from powering on the tv and dvr attempting to watch live tv. Issue corrected itself after 20 seconds without any intervention from me.

Are these telltale signs of the HD failing?


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## Rich

billysworld said:


> Hi Rich
> 
> Thanks for your response.
> I've attached a video link in a new post, "Strange issue with HR24?" if you like to see the symptons
> 
> Are these telltale signs of the hard drive failing?


Your first link brought me to an Amazon page that offered a 24 for sale. Your second link brought me to a Home Depot page that showed a hard drive, but no symptoms. Can you fix your links?

Rich


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## billysworld

Rich said:


> Your first link brought me to an Amazon page that offered a 24 for sale. Your second link brought me to a Home Depot page that showed a hard drive, but no symptoms. Can you fix your links?
> 
> Rich


Link has been updated, not sure what happened.


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## billysworld

Rich said:


> I'd really be looking at the new drive you installed.
> 
> Rich


Pulled the hard drive from the HR24 and ran GParted in hopes of copying the data over. It reports back with unknown file system.
I had a spare WD 2TB drive and ran the copy and restore. The process took over three hours to complete with the success messages.
However the new hard drive now displays unknown file system. The copy/restore must have copied the corruption over as well.
I formatted the new hard drive as Fat32.

My choices are now:
Reinstall the original drive into the HR24 or
Install the new hard drive and start with a blank slate.

Could the unknown file system be the cause of my video issues?
Does anyone know how to repair the unknown file system error using GParted?
Would running the hard drive diagnostics during startup of the HR24 resolve the file system issue?


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## billysworld

billysworld said:


> Pulled the hard drive from the HR24 and ran GParted in hopes of copying the data over. It reports back with unknown file system.
> I had a spare WD 2TB drive and ran the copy and restore. The process took over three hours to complete with the success messages.
> However the new hard drive now displays unknown file system. The copy/restore must have copied the corruption over as well.
> I formatted the new hard drive as Fat32.
> 
> My choices are now:
> Reinstall the original drive into the HR24 or
> Install the new hard drive and start with a blank slate.
> 
> Could the unknown file system be the cause of my video issues?
> Does anyone know how to repair the unknown file system error using GParted?
> Would running the hard drive diagnostics during startup of the HR24 resolve the file system issue?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMG_0146.JPG


Quick update...

Installed the newly formatted hard drive into the HR24 and to my surprise everything was copied over.
Plan to test run it this weekend and see if the video issues return.
Can anyone explain why the contents remained even though the drive was formatted?


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## inkahauts

What said it was an. I none file system? And what formatted the drive after you copied it?


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## billysworld

inkahauts said:


> What said it was an. I none file system? And what formatted the drive after you copied it?


I used the format command in GParted. Afterwards it was able to read the drive capacity and the file system is Fat32.


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## billysworld

billysworld said:


> Quick update...
> 
> Installed the newly formatted hard drive into the HR24 and to my surprise everything was copied over.
> Plan to test run it this weekend and see if the video issues return.
> Can anyone explain why the contents remained even though the drive was formatted?


Second update...
The video and audio issues are back. This eliminates the hard drive being the culprit.
Moved the troublesome HR24 inro the guest room, less usuage there. Reconnected the working dvr.
I'm still at a loss as to why there are audio and video issues with tthis particular HR24.


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## Rich

billysworld said:


> Second update...
> The video and audio issues are back. This eliminates the hard drive being the culprit.
> Moved the troublesome HR24 inro the guest room, less usuage there. Reconnected the working dvr.
> I'm still at a loss as to why there are audio and video issues with tthis particular HR24.


Good troubleshooting! Now get a replacement.

Rich


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## billysworld

Rich said:


> Good troubleshooting! Now get a replacement.
> 
> Rich


Turns out to be be bad hdmi port on my plasma tv.


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## Rich

billysworld said:


> Turns out to be be bad hdmi port on my plasma tv.


Didn't see that coming... :rolling:

Rich


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## MagicHands

I have one HR24-200 receiver DVR and one client that I got when the apartments I previously rented at threw away satellite system (and all other personal belongings) in the dumpster after they evicted a tenant. They even stills had the cards in them. Since I do not subscribe to Direct TV my interest in this gear is only to harvest the hard-drive from it to use in computers.

I found it quite easy to teardown the receiver/DVR to remove the 500GB hard-drive.

Tools required:
thin-blade screwdriver
wide-blade screwdriver
small Phillips screwdriver
tamper-proof Torx T10 (has hole in the middle of the bit-head)

I took step-by-step pics that I can share later or via PM.

I am willing to sell both of the HR24-200 receiver/DVR & client components if anyone is interested.


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## uscpsycho

I just changed the hard drive in my hr24. I noticed that all the how-to photos that had been posted are missing and I wonder if that is on purpose or maybe because they were hosted on a photo sharing site and are no longer available.

I took photos of my replacement so if this forum is not opposed to having tear down photos, I'd be happy to post mine.

Now that I've pulled my old hard drive out, I wonder if there is a way to repair it (it fails attempts by the DVR to repair it at startup) or copy the data to a new drive? I've made peace with the loss of all those programs but I'd love to salvage it.

BTW - The failed hard drive was a 2TB WD EADS that I installed years ago. This time I got a Seagate SkyHawk 2TB Surveillance hard drive.


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## Rich

uscpsycho said:


> I just changed the hard drive in my hr24. I noticed that all the how-to photos that had been posted are missing and I wonder if that is on purpose or maybe because they were hosted on a photo sharing site and are no longer available.
> 
> I took photos of my replacement so if this forum is not opposed to having tear down photos, I'd be happy to post mine.
> 
> _*Now that I've pulled my old hard drive out, I wonder if there is a way to repair it (it fails attempts by the DVR to repair it at startup) or copy the data to a new drive? I've made peace with the loss of all those programs but I'd love to salvage it.*_
> 
> BTW - The failed hard drive was a 2TB WD EADS that I installed years ago. This time I got a Seagate SkyHawk 2TB Surveillance hard drive.


You might try PMing _*P Smith*_, he knows how to do what you want.

Rich


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## P Smith

billysworld said:


> Quick update...
> 
> Installed the newly formatted hard drive into the HR24 and to my surprise everything was copied over.
> Plan to test run it this weekend and see if the video issues return.
> Can anyone explain why the contents remained even *though the drive was formatted*?


in the case it didn't - just updated first sector where HDD partitioning reside, all sectors with folders/files doesn't affected
you are lucky - new MBR has same partitions


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## mocarob

I recently copied the internal drive of a HR24-200 seagate st3500312cs to a 2tb WD WD20EZRX using gparted. (success.no errors)
Now, When playing back some of the contents of the WD - The files start part way into the show or finish before the end. The entire episodes won't play.. Has anybody experienced this? 
Hard Drive Sentinel tells me there are no health issues with the drive.. Before starting the copy process, I deleted all the partitions with gparted & let the dvr format the WD. I did not have to use any superblock repairs.


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## P Smith

I would try to init new drive by target DVR and record one short show on it before start copy from old HDD


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## mocarob

P Smith said:


> I would try to init new drive by target DVR and record one short show on it before start copy from old HDD


I did both of those. Thanks.. I just read that the seagate has 512 sectors (even tho it was manu in 2012) instead of 4096 AF of the WD. I had trouble with that type of situation in the past..


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## P Smith

try run fsck under Linux [gparted CD]


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## mocarob

P Smith said:


> try run fsck under Linux [gparted CD]


This is getting over my head but if I understand correctly I should run command "
fsck -a /dev/sda1" or what number should be after sda? Which partition am I checking?
(the drive is connected to sata0 - sda)


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## P Smith

second partition, but be sure you did mount it correctly - with -rtdev /sda3 extension


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