# New to Directv. Rain Fade ?



## redbox223 (Aug 26, 2008)

Hey everyone, i just signed with directv a few days ago. I have the new slimline 5lnb dish and i have the hr-21 dvr. I have to be honest that i was nervous making the swith from cable due to rain fade. My question is how nervous should i be? My signal strength is all in the 90's. I wanted to make the swith because it was going to be cheaper than cable and i'm getting more channels and plus i got the Sunday Ticket and i'm a big football fan.

I'm in chicago and the dish has a clear view. I've been with comcast cable for a while but i grew very frustrated with them and there prices. I'm just trying to see how concerned i should be with my signal going out whenever it rains. Sorry if this is a newbie question and thanks for any replies!!!


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## mishawaka (Sep 11, 2007)

the answer is "not very nervous"


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

Welcome to DBSTalk!

Rain fade is an unfortunate reality with satellite tv, but if your dish is properly peaked (and by the sounds of your signals in the 90s it is), then it really doesn't occur all that often. My dish is mostly peaked to high 80s and low 90s and I only lose signal when it's a pretty significant rain in the area. I'm talking soaking downpour, not lite drizzle. You'll most likely be fine, sit back and enjoy the crapload of HD


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## Grentz (Jan 10, 2007)

Does not happen very often, at least for me. Only in the worst of storms.


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## redbox223 (Aug 26, 2008)

making me feel better. Thanks for all the replies


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## MIKE0616 (Dec 13, 2006)

Grentz said:


> Does not happy very often, at least for me. Only in the worst of storms.


I lost picture a LOT more when I had comcrap than I have ever experienced with either DirecTV or Dish. It happens very infrequently, and when it does go, I know its time to head for the basement, as I live in "tornado alley."


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## venisenvy (Nov 1, 2007)

I have to be honest, I was nervous about this when i joined directv about a year ago. I have lost the HD channels about 5 times and only once it was more than 5 minutes. One time it was a horrible storm and for about 30 minutes i lost about 75% of my channels but not all. But when i compare it to cable, in a year for directv i was inconvinienced for about 45 minutes. i must have lost cable about once a month and it sure was longer than 5 minutes when it happened.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Let's hope the OP's swelling goes down so they can once again spell switch.


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## redbox223 (Aug 26, 2008)

well, i was writing pretty fast so i didn't notice that it was spelled incorrectly but don't worry i know how to spell SWITCH and BTW thanks for the reply!!!


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## redbox223 (Aug 26, 2008)

I want to thank everyone for the replies, truly appreciated! I apologize for the misspelling but thanks for the reponses


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## redbox223 (Aug 26, 2008)

responses........doing it again


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## su_A_ve (Sep 27, 2007)

I assume it can vary depending on the area....

From my experience in the last 8 years, in central NJ, rain fade comes in about 5 minutes before the heavy part of a severe storm, and goes away 5 minutes before the storm ends. Typically, this would last 5-10 minutes at most.

It's actually a nice warning of a storm coming or moving away...

I do have basic cable and HSI. During these same 8 years, I got at least 3-4 outages, however these lasted 3-5 DAYS. Also, a similar amount of smaller cable outages that lasted 4-6 hours.

My .02...


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## Greg Alsobrook (Apr 2, 2007)

harsh said:


> Let's hope the OP's swelling goes down so they can once again spell switch.


Must be a slow night, huh harsh? Gotta pick on a newbie for spelling errors?? 

To the OP:

:welcome_s to DBSTalk! As others have said, with signals in the 90's, you should be fine except during heavy downpours.


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## rudeney (May 28, 2007)

Rain fade is annoying, but it in my case, it results in less than 30 minutes a year of signal loss. Rain fade seems to be worse when a storm front comes in parallel to LOS as opposed to being perpendicular. This means the signal is having to travel the longest direction through the storm and thus has the most moisture to block it. In my case, storms almost always come in parallel to LOS yet it takes a real whopper to cause an outage. Generally, I’ll lose the signal about two or three minutes before a torrential downpour. Once the rain starts, the signal generally comes back. If not, then I know we’re in for a real soaking (flash floods, etc.)


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## ziggy29 (Nov 18, 2004)

For a while when I lived in Houston, we had rain fade with almost every decent rainfall. 

At one point I went up on the roof and peaked the signals, and after that it took pretty serious storms to the south to cause dropouts.

Getting signals into the 90s instead of the 70s will probably eliminate 75% of the rain fade.


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## rmullin (Sep 6, 2007)

Like the others, we VERY seldom get rain-fade: just in the most intense downpours or extreme snowfalls.

However, we did experience our first rain-fade from local over-the-air digital antenna signals last week. We had a downpour (1-1/2" of rain in about 1/2 hour) and a couple of times even the local antenna feed went down, and this antenna usually pulls in a 95% signal strength.

Just goes to show that with enough rain drops in the air, digital bits can be swallowed up or scattered enough that they don't reach your home - no matter whether they are from the local 2,000 foot antenna 15 miles away, or from a bird 24,000 miles away. Bits is bits.


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## SPACEMAKER (Dec 11, 2007)

As many others have stated, rain fade does occur but only during a significant downpour. The cable people would lead you to believe that you will lose signal every time it rains and that just isn't true.


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## NXStang (Aug 12, 2008)

The reason rain fade used to happen was poor installs and improper alignment. Nowadays with big HSP's such as Ironwood, Mastac, Bluegrass, Directech, etc its much less common. good signal meters and proper training go a LONG LONG way in this business.

My old sidecar at my old house I installed over 3 years ago. It still works fine to this day and it went out a handful of times at most.

Good luck and enjoy that HD!!!!


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## dtrell (Dec 28, 2007)

redbox223 said:


> responses........doing it again


you really dont need to post again...you can go back and edit your own post if you find typos.


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## redbox223 (Aug 26, 2008)

Thanks for the tip and thanks to everyone for the feedback. I'm definitely enjoying the HD channels and hopefully everything works out.


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## aukevin (Aug 13, 2008)

PoitNarf said:


> Welcome to DBSTalk!
> 
> Rain fade is an unfortunate reality with satellite tv, but if your dish is properly peaked (and by the sounds of your signals in the 90s it is), then it really doesn't occur all that often. My dish is mostly peaked to high 80s and low 90s and I only lose signal when it's a pretty significant rain in the area. I'm talking soaking downpour, not lite drizzle. You'll most likely be fine, sit back and enjoy the crapload of HD


What goes into properly peaking a dish? I'm considering the switch and I want to make sure when it is set up that it is set up right.


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## Justin23 (Jan 11, 2008)

I live in FL and need a 50 degree elevation to see the 101 bird (just have SD). What I have found is if the cloudtops of storms are really tall that is what effects my rain fade more...not really the rain itself. But, D* is WAY better than cable and the signal comes back within a few minutes. Most folks forget that cable gets their signal from a satellite as well, then runs through the ground to your house.

J


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## 66stang351 (Aug 10, 2006)

aukevin said:


> What goes into properly peaking a dish? I'm considering the switch and I want to make sure when it is set up that it is set up right.


Before you sign off on the install make sure to go into the signal strength menu and check signal on each of the sattelites. All should give fairly consistent numbers in the high 80s on 90s. Keep in mind that a few transponders on 101 and 119 are spotbeams and may have low signal in your area and 99s and 103s are all spots and will have wildly varying signal.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

aukevin said:


> What goes into properly peaking a dish? I'm considering the switch and I want to make sure when it is set up that it is set up right.


A rock solid mounting situation including monopoles is essential.

The final step is the meticulous peaking of signal levels specifically for 99W and 103W; even to the detriment of signals on the Ku slots.


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## redbox223 (Aug 26, 2008)

Thanks for all the replies. I want to post my signal strength and see what you guys think. I have the slimline 5 LNB dish and i have the HR-21. Again this is all new to me so I don't understand it completely yet but here it goes:

101
1-8 96 95 95 0 95 100 96 100
9-16 95 97 96 0 95 100 96 100
17-24 95 100 95 43 95 100 96 100
25-32 95 100 95 96 96 100 96 100

110 
1-8 NA NA NA NA NA NA NA 94 
9-16 NA 92 NA 95

119
17-24 NA NA NA NA NA 97 60 94
25-32 97 95 97 93 91 96 0 99

99c
1-8 89 87 85 85 88 87 86 85
9-16 91 87 88 85 95 90

99s
1-8 83 82 80 84 82 93 NA NA
17-24 99 97 92 95 0 0 0 0

103s
1-8 79 0 94 93 81 0 na na
9-16 na na na na na na 0 0
17-24 0 90 0 96 73 0 0 0 

103c
1-8 91 85 88 85 86 83 87 86 
9-16 87 83 89 86 89 85 na na

What do you guys think? Is this pretty good, can these numbers go any higher?

Thanks


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## jdspencer (Nov 8, 2003)

Those look darn good. I'd say the lower ones on 99s and 103s are spot beams that don't service your area. 

Now sit back and enjoy DirecTV.


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## donwmack (Oct 15, 2006)

my signal numbers are similar. I am SW Chicago burbs. I loose HD DAILY on both HR20's. 

Its great when you DVR something, like the bears/colts game last Sunday evening miss 10 minutes of the third 1/4 due to loss of HD signal. I wish the system would recognize it has lost signal and switch over to SD recording. 

I've had "technicians" out once a month every month this year and HD's maybe stable for a day then its back to daily random HD loss sun, rain or snow, it doesn't mater. Tech support calls are useless and frustrating. My D* contact is up 10/8. Not sure where I am going next.


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

donwmack said:


> my signal numbers are similar. I am SW Chicago burbs. I loose HD DAILY on both HR20's.
> 
> Its great when you DVR something, like the bears/colts game last Sunday evening miss 10 minutes of the third 1/4 due to loss of HD signal. I wish the system would recognize it has lost signal and switch over to SD recording.
> 
> I've had "technicians" out once a month every month this year and HD's maybe stable for a day then its back to daily random HD loss sun, rain or snow, it doesn't mater. Tech support calls are useless and frustrating. My D* contact is up 10/8. Not sure where I am going next.


Sounds like a little do-it-yourself might go a long way, if you are physically able. The members of this forum are more than willing to help!


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## finaldiet (Jun 13, 2006)

I live in SW suburbs and have rain fade on very heavy downpours, but they don't last long. Lost signal once last winter due to a heavy, wet snow. Very happy with the service.


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## usmcbob55 (Oct 6, 2007)

The only time in my 8+ years I've ever had any rain fade was my first setup. My roommate and I set our dish in a Home Depot bucket set in concrete. Not exactly a text book setup. I've never had any signal problem on any other type of mount.


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## dtrell (Dec 28, 2007)

jdspencer said:


> Those look darn good. I'd say the lower ones on 99s and 103s are spot beams that don't service your area.
> 
> Now sit back and enjoy DirecTV.


all of the TPs on 99s and 103s are spot beams...thats what the "s" stands for.


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## AJerman (Aug 3, 2008)

Lets put it this way... I'm in NC and when Hanna came over last weekend, I was at someone else's house all night, but when I came home my satellite had tipped to the side and was leaning against the rail (pole in bucket apartment setup), but I could tell that it still had signal up until it had fallen over. Once I set it back it got signal back immediately, and the storm wasn't even gone yet.

Even in heavy rain you're not necessarily going to lose signal. A big factor is what type of clouds there are, and how big they are. Big cumulonimbus thunderheads that come with more severe thunderstorms will almost always block out the signal, but normal rainy days aren't going to cause any problems if you're in the 90s.

You're definitely going to experience rain fade at times, but it's no where near as bad or as often as cable companies will have you think.


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## newsposter (Nov 13, 2003)

add an am21 for ota and you will 'never' have signal fade...love my OTA when the dish goes out.


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## jdspencer (Nov 8, 2003)

dtrell said:


> all of the TPs on 99s and 103s are spot beams...thats what the "s" stands for.


I know that all TPs on the (s) sats are spot beams. I was just saying that the ones with low signal strength don't service his area. He should have one TP with a very good signal value.


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## ticked_off (Sep 20, 2008)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1948GG View Post
When you folks understand LINK BUDGET then you'll see why the Ka signals are BETTER than the Ku/DBS ones, for every point I made (reread it).

And as far as all the folks complaining here, they complain about virtually everything, and from the number of poor installations (!!), it's obvious why!

I remember, back in the early days of DirecTV (and Ku/DBS), 1994-?, of the number of folks who had TONS of problems with the Ku/DBS reception, again due to poor installations. We can all laugh at that today, saying that jeez, you gotta be kidding me! The number of professionals who scoffed at Ku/DBS at the time as 'unworkable' were legion; curious that when DirecTV fielded the Ka system, all those folks were silent. Maybe remembered how wrong they were years earlier? But that's the facts.

The only thing on that front is simply to go to larger reflectors (dishes).



Many years ago I installed a 70 CM dish with a triple LNA (wineguard) to end rain fade. There is no way I am going back to an undersized dish. With the DirecTV going to the new KA sats I am very ticked off for many reasons:

1. I have been searching in vain for a general purpose KA LNA that can be mounted on a custom antenna. No luck what so ever.

2. On the chance I would settle on my current 101/110/119 high gain system, you would think I could get DirecTV to tell be what the channel alignment is going to be when they switch from MPEG2 to MPEG4, right...

3. Wonder what the sports bars are going to do? I know they will not put up with it.

4. I could give a rats @$#$ about locals over sat, to many other ways to get them.

Just moved and have not reinstalled my system. About a month away from switching to dish. Lots of options there for high gain systems.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

ticked_off said:


> With the DirecTV going to the new KA sats I am very ticked off for many reasons:


Kinda funny that you go off on this blow-hard diatribe about who positively wonderful that the Ka band is and then you lament that you can't use it because suitable hardware isn't available.

Is it wonderful or does it suck?


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## sore_bluto (Mar 15, 2007)

See my recent post on this subject here.


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## Arubaflower (Aug 20, 2008)

NXStang said:


> The reason rain fade used to happen was poor installs and improper alignment. Nowadays with big HSP's such as Ironwood, Mastac, Bluegrass, Directech, etc its much less common. good signal meters and proper training go a LONG LONG way in this business.


 Then I am encouraged when my parents get their new HD dish installed. Currently, they lose signal quite often. It doesn't even take rain. Let the clouds roll in and suddenly-- *zap*-- no signal. My Comcast has never gone out since it was installed over 8 years ago. I was going to switch the folks to Comcast for their HD upgrade but I thought I would give D* one more chance to get it right. And it doesn't hurt they get the NFL Network channel and I don't.


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

Arubaflower said:


> Then I am encouraged when my parents get their new HD dish installed. Currently, they lose signal quite often. It doesn't even take rain. Let the clouds roll in and suddenly-- *zap*-- no signal. My Comcast has never gone out since it was installed over 8 years ago. I was going to switch the folks to Comcast for their HD upgrade but I thought I would give D* one more chance to get it right. And it doesn't hurt they get the NFL Network channel and I don't.


Sounds like the dish is in serious need of adjustment.

You certainly are lucky with your cable. I hope you found some wood to knock on.


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## leww37334 (Sep 19, 2005)

MY dish is well aligned, I live in the South and I get rain fade if it is raining anywhere to the ssw of me. DO not be fooled by the posts here it is a serious problem.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

leww37334 said:


> MY dish is well aligned, I live in the South and I get rain fade if it is raining anywhere to the ssw of me. DO not be fooled by the posts here it is a serious problem.


Post your readings on all of the following satellites:
99c, 103ca, 103cb

I live 35 miles south of Houston, TX and 10 miles north of Galveston. We get lots of rain. We do get rain fade but it is not serious.


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## ladannen (Oct 27, 2007)

leww37334 said:


> MY dish is well aligned, I live in the South and I get rain fade if it is raining anywhere to the ssw of me. DO not be fooled by the posts here it is a serious problem.


I don't have big rain fade problems, but maybe I'm just lucky.

I would think that if this was a widespread problem, the only thread related to Directv rain fade on this site would be updated more frequently that once every six years.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

leww37334 said:


> MY dish is well aligned, I live in the South and I get rain fade if it is raining anywhere to the ssw of me. DO not be fooled by the posts here it is a serious problem.


Nope, not that serious. Call DirecTV® to have them take a look at your installation because apparently some is wrong


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## SomeRandomIdiot (Jan 7, 2009)

ladannen said:


> I don't have big rain fade problems, but maybe I'm just lucky.
> 
> I would think that if this was a widespread problem, the only thread related to Directv rain fade on this site would be updated more frequently that once every six years.


It depends on where on lives. If one lives in the SouthEast, especially Florida where there are plenty of pop-up thunderstorms in the Summer, it is much more of a problem then in other parts of the Country.

Also, just because someone does not see the signal fade, does not mean it does not happen to them.

Bottom line, most MVPDs report 99.9% uptime. With 8,760 hours in a year, that comes up to around 8.76 hours a year of downtime.

With cable that often happens during a continuous period. With DirecTV, it happens 5 and 10 minutes at a time with rain fade - which can get very annoying.


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## BubblePuppy (Nov 3, 2006)

Here in Missouri Spring and Summer is T-Storm and Tornado season. During those weather conditions satellite tv is a fail. A NOAA weather radio and a battery operated radio is a must have. Don't count on DirecTV for emergency weather info.


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## JohnBoy (Sep 9, 2011)

Here in Orlando during rain season in July and August i get rain fade often during evening showers...771 error code has become a part of the family.

It can get frustrating when i try watching my evening MLB ball games and that stupid code pop ups and I lose signal for about half hour.

So I have to switch to my roku and watch a stream feed of my game on mlbtv.


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

Rain fade happens...whether or not it is a "serious" problem depends on the individual and their concept of "serious." For us, in the NE corner of Bergen County NJ rain fade was a problem in the summer, mostly in the evenings, when large thunderstorms rolled across New Jersey. Our signal readings were in the 90s for all the HD (Ka) transponders and between 95 and 100 for all the SD (Ku) transponders. We would lose signal about once every week or two, usually during early prime time, and the outages would be intermittent over a period of 15 to 30 minutes (enough to make any recording being done at the time unwatchable). It was almost never actually raining here when we had the outages - they happened when the storm was to the SW of us. Most of the time, once it actually started to rain here the signal would be back.

There is also a potential problem with ice fade (when ice accumulates on the dish or, worse, the LNB cover. Heavy wet snow on the dish can also be an issue, but in our experience that was very rare (only twice that I can recall over a period of 15 years).


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## jcwest (May 3, 2006)

What I do during a passing Thunder Boomer is check the SD channel. Quite often the SD channel will still get through unless the storm is very intense.

J C


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

leww37334 said:


> MY dish is well aligned, I live in the South and I get rain fade if it is raining anywhere to the ssw of me. DO not be fooled by the posts here it is a serious problem.


Wow. You dredged up a six year old thread to warn the OP about your apparent situation??


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## WilsonFlyer (Jan 16, 2006)

Laxguy said:


> Wow. You dredged up a six year old thread to warn the OP about your apparent situation??


He speaks the truth. I'm at 97-100% EVERYWHERE. Had DTV sinve 96. Just lost signal 35 minutes out of the last 60 with storms (eastern NC). It is a very regional problem but places like here at central FL (thunderstorm alleys of the US), it's a very real problem.

The only reason I even saw this thread at all was because I was searching for if a bigger dish was available and would it help JUST NOW.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

WilsonFlyer said:


> He speaks the truth. I'm at 97-100% EVERYWHERE. Had DTV sinve 96. Just lost signal 35 minutes out of the last 60 with storms (eastern NC). It is a very regional problem but places like here at central FL (thunderstorm alleys of the US), it's a very real problem.
> 
> The only reason I even saw this thread at all was because I was searching for if a bigger dish was available and would it help JUST NOW.


Well at least there is "merit" to it.
The SAT beams are focused to be the strongest for this area, but mother nature is stronger.
The 1.2 meter dish could help "a bit", but they're expensive, and NOT GOOD for when you don't have rainfade.

A LNB with more dynamic range would be better, but no one yet makes one.


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## dennisj00 (Sep 27, 2007)

Rain fade seems to have increased in the last 2 or 3 years . . . nothing scientific but I don't remember the types of thunderstorms that we're having now. Some are small, localized that dump an inch or two and an outage of 10-15 minutes and some are bigger that might not rain here but dump a few inches to the west of us. And never rain here.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

dennisj00 said:


> Rain fade seems to have increased in the last 2 or 3 years . . . nothing scientific but I don't remember the types of thunderstorms that we're having now. Some are small, localized that dump an inch or two and an outage of 10-15 minutes and some are bigger that might not rain here but dump a few inches to the west of us. And never rain here.


The change from Calif to GA has taught me what a PITA it can be.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

veryoldschool said:


> Well at least there is "merit" to it.
> The SAT beams are focused to be the strongest for this area, but mother nature is stronger.
> The 1.2 meter dish could help "a bit", but they're expensive, and NOT GOOD for when you don't have rainfade.
> 
> A LNB with more dynamic range would be better, but no one yet makes one.


And I suppose while dealing with the uplink side, the same principle would apply to the downlink side to vividly illustrate the utter futility of trying to combat rain fade by going to a larger receive dish like the 1.2 m ODU as slice jokingly points out in the very next post at the link.

Notice that even with monster size 9-14 m Ka band satellite dishes DIRECTV uses at their various uplink sites. They still need nearby diversity facilities (the sites denoted by "D" in their labels) with equal size dishes to maintain a high reliability against RF signal outages. 

http://www.dbstalk.com/topic/209103-how-are-locals-delivered-to-directv/?p=3205294


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

HoTat2 said:


> And I suppose while dealing with the uplink side, the same principle would apply to the downlink side to vividly illustrate the utter futility of trying to combat rain fade by going to a larger receive dish like the 1.2 m ODU as slice jokingly points out in the very next post at the link.
> 
> Notice that even with monster size 9-14 m Ka band satellite dishes DIRECTV uses at their various uplink sites. They still need nearby diversity facilities (the sites denoted by "D" in their labels) with equal size dishes to maintain a high reliability against RF signal outages.
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/topic/209103-how-are-locals-delivered-to-directv/?p=3205294


While you're on the right track, looking at your list in the link, I'm not sure, or don't see, what I'd expect to for weather related problems.
Colorado verses California, sure, but LA verses LA basin [and similar spacing], not so much.


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## llweigand (Dec 18, 2013)

Here in Michigan, I normally lose signal about 2-3 hour a year total. 5 - 10 minutes at a time during heavy downpours. My satellite is on the ground so any snow buildup is easily removed. I rarely if ever lose signal. I would lose the Comcast signal for more downtime. When the cable goes out, it usually was for hours. We the satellite goes out, it normally is for minutes. 

Last week was the exception. We had a torrential downpour for hours and the signal was gone for 2+ hours. I watched my dvr recordings during the downtime so it wasn't that big of an ordeal.


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

redbox223 said:


> making me feel better. Thanks for all the replies


In Iowa, where we get frequent large thunderstorms, we get rain fade a few times per summer. I would estimate 3 to 5 times per summer, and that is mostly on the high def channels (due to the frequency that they use being more susceptible to rain fade). This happens when the heavy rain bearing t-boomers are south of us, i.e., in between the dish and the satellite in question. We can have torrential rain right at the dish and have no rain fade. However, if there is a big storm south of the dish (several miles), so the rain is very dense and high in the clouds, that rain absorbs the signal from the satellites. If you were to draw a line from the dish up to the Clark belt (say Azimuth 185 degrees and Elevation 38 degrees, and examine that line several miles south of the dish, it is the big thunderstorm that intersects that line at that point (several miles south) that is causing the problem, not rain local to the dish. This is all due to the water density at that location at that time. It passes in a few minutes.

So: if you live in an area where you get strong thunderstorms frequently, you WILL experience some short periods (seconds to minutes) of rain fade. It is unavoidable.

If you live in an area with heavy wet snow, and it accumulates on the dish surface, you will also lose signal until you clean it off. This can also happen with ice accumulation on the feed horns themselves.

Once you understand what is going on and realize all loss of signal is quite short term in infrequent, it probably will be very little annoyance, considering how well things work 99.999 % of the time.

Enjoy!


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## wxguy (Feb 17, 2008)

Best way to avoid rainfade is to relocate to an area under severe drought conditions, But then that can change, so stay mobile.

I get rainfade on occasion with buildups to the south of us. Usually switching to an SD feed of the channel will get the programming unless the buildup extends farther to the southwest. If I lose both, I can switch to the offair antenna in case of severe weather problems but by then I'm usually watching radar on the computer so they don't tell me anything on local tv I don't already know about. Recordings under rainfade just go away, but with reruns so common, there is hardly anything that I can't see if I really have a need.

I'm having problems coordinating my rainfades with the times politicians are taking over the airwaves and pontificating about something. Still working on a solution to that.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

I was curious about rain fade issues last year and did some googling and found an academic paper which discussed it, and their calculations indicated that you can't make a dish big enough to completely eliminate rain fade in either Ku or Ka band. At some point (I think it was around 15 meters for Ka band) making the dish bigger actually hurts during rain because it gains more noise than signal as size increases beyond that level.

They had graphs showing a 30 to 40 db drop during the heaviest rain, so going to the 1.2 meter AK/HI dish that's maybe adding 5 db if you're lucky doesn't buy you much at all. Even a C band sized dish wouldn't help all that much. That's probably big enough that the reduction in "rain fade minutes per year" is measurable, but it likely wouldn't even cut that figure in half.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

After more than 17 years as a DirecTV customer....I've learned that the term "rainfade" is a misnomer.In fact...I've experienced hundreds of severe rainfalls without losing any signal. It helps to have the Dish peaked with a solid signal of course.

What does happen on certain occasions is when a severe thunderstorm comes through with plenty of lightening...then the signal goes out for perhaps a few minutes. Not every storm results in an outage of signal either. So I call it "stormfade" to be more accurate.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

Rain fade is an interruption of wireless signals as a result of rain or snow droplets whose separation approximates the signal wavelengths. One can experience rain fade with or without precipitation if the conditions are right.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

MysteryMan said:


> Rain fade is an interruption of wireless signals as a result of rain or snow droplets whose separation approximates the signal wavelengths. One can experience rain fade with or without precipitation if the conditions are right.


In the microwave range it's mostly is due to the absorption of the energy by the water molecule.
If a water molecule didn't do this, your microwave oven wouldn't work.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

wxguy said:


> Best way to avoid rainfade is to relocate to an area under severe drought conditions, But then that can change, so stay mobile.
> 
> << Snipped bits out >>
> 
> I'm having problems coordinating my rainfades with the times politicians are taking over the airwaves and pontificating about something. Still working on a solution to that.


Yes, I'd gladly trade some 'fade for some rain! Virtually no rain fade for years in my part of N. CA.

When you solve the pol-pollution problem, please post!


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

veryoldschool said:


> While you're on the right track, looking at your list in the link, I'm not sure, or don't see, what I'd expect to for weather related problems.
> Colorado verses California, sure, but LA verses LA basin [and similar spacing], not so much.


AFAIK, the diversity transmission/reception system doesn't work that way.

Each uplink station rapidly switches back and forth only with its "comparatively" nearby associated diversity site depending on atmospheric conditions or for equipment failure and maintenance going on at either one of the sites.

The LA Broadcast Center in Marina Del Ray, CA. with the CBC in Long Beach, CA. and Castle Rock site in Castle Rock, CO. with its diversity site in Englewood, CO.

And I guess in DIRECTV's studies these spacings between the main uplink sites and their associated diversity sites is sufficient such that the probability of both experiencing the same degree of a RF or some other atmospheric anomaly at the exact same time is virtually nil.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Laxguy said:


> Yes, I'd gladly trade some 'fade for some rain! Virtually no rain fade for years in my part of N. CA.
> 
> When you solve the pol-pollution problem, please post!





Laxguy said:


> Yes, I'd gladly trade some 'fade for some rain! Virtually no rain fade for years in my part of N. CA.
> 
> When you solve the pol-pollution problem, please post!


Amen to that as well here in So. Cal.

The drought conditions in California nowadays seem almost biblically epic ...


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

HoTat2 said:


> AFAIK, the diversity transmission/reception system doesn't work that way.
> 
> And I guess in DIRECTV's studies these spacings between the main uplink sites and their associated diversity sites is sufficient such that the probability of both experiencing the same degree of a RF or *some other atmospheric anomaly at the exact same time is virtually nil.*


25 mile spacing isn't going to end up "nil".
Storms can be large enough to cover both.
"nil" would have to include both main uplinks as Cal & Colo have enough spacing.
.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

veryoldschool said:


> 25 mile spacing isn't going to end up "nil".
> Storms can be large enough to cover both.
> "nil" would have to include both main uplinks as Cal & Colo have enough spacing.
> .


Well I did say "virtually" ...


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