# 0x0290 Feature Discussion: Support for 1080p/24



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

This is a discussion thread for the 1080p/24 support in the latest national release.

A little bit about this feature:


You must be using HDMI to your TV and it must be capable of displaying 1080p/24
Your TV must properly report 1080p support over the HDMI cable
If your TV supports 1080p/24, it will appear as an available resolution in System Setup
There will be an on-screen test for 1080p the first time you attempt to use 1080p
If you are not in Native Mode, there will be a prompt to offer a temporarily switch into Native Mode during a 1080p program's playback session. This will only appear once per 24 hrs.
You may now use *1080P* as a search term
A new Icon in DIRECTV On Demand and on the program's Info screen will indicate 1080p programs.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Commence discussion!


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## PackFan (Jul 18, 2006)

Discussion continued - 

It doesn't work - DirecTV - please fix.


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## jediphish (Dec 4, 2005)

My pioneer elite 50" plasma (pro1130hd) "accepts" a 1080p/24 signal from a PS3 just fine (both directly and through my hdmi a/v receiver), but displays at 768p/72. This is achieved by forcing 1080p/24 output from the PS3, since it probably doesn't pass the info via handshake. I wish D* would give a "force 1080p/24 output" option like the PS3 does. To cut down on confusion among users, it could be buried in the menu system somewhere or even implementable by hidden "keyword search" terms. If it's an option for PS3 seems like it should be for my HR20-700 as well.

One might ask "what's the point" with regards to my being able to use the 1080p/24 since my TV only displays 768p? Well, the benefits of 24p (at 3x hz) are plenty of benefit.

BTW - 1080p is greyed out in my resolutions menu.


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## LarryFlowers (Sep 22, 2006)

PackFan said:


> Discussion continued -
> 
> It doesn't work - DirecTV - please fix.


It does work, don't monkey with it...

See now my post offsets your post. It's all in the details and if you are having a problem with it, let us help and provide DirecTV with valuable information by providing your details.

In my case:

HR21-700
HR20-700

Software version X290
Television: Samsung LNT4665
Resolutions Supported: 480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p/24/30/60
Connections: HDMI
Devices(i.e. anything such as a switch or AV Receiver between the HR's and the TV): None

Provide this information and your post will mean something to the people who fix things. If you want it fixed, be part of the solution.


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## PackFan (Jul 18, 2006)

It does NOT work - both my TV and receiver support the resolution and the DVR tells me that it doesn't.

HR20-700

Software version X290
Television: Pioneer Elite PRO-151FD
Resolutions Supported: 480i / 480p / 720p / 1080i / 1080p (24/60 Hz) Signals
Connections: HDMI
Devices(i.e. anything such as a switch or AV Receiver between the HR's and the TV): Pioneer Elite VSX-03THX (Supports 1080p video transfer, and PS3 1080p/24 is verified to work)

Please don't blame the receiver or the TV - if the PS3 can do it, the DVR should be able to do it too.


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## oldschoolecw (Jan 25, 2007)

I have a 1080P set and it is not working on it

Now a question? I’m not networked on my HR20-700 is that why it’s not working in 1080P mode?


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## rahlquist (Jul 24, 2007)

PackFan said:


> It does NOT work - both my TV and receiver support the resolution and the DVR tells me that it doesn't.
> 
> HR20-700
> 
> ...


Did you try the previous suggestion of bypassing the receiver? If you did this and it worked it would mean either a bad cable of the AV receiver is the problem in the chain. Contact Pioneer for firmware update for you AV receiver and TV?

I've seen this discussion before, and because the PS3(or whatever other device) will force a resolution ignoring the handshake that doesn't mean D* has to do that as well.


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## rahlquist (Jul 24, 2007)

oldschoolecw said:


> I have a 1080P set and it is not working on it
> 
> Now a question? I'm not networked on my HR20-700 is that why it's not working in 1080P mode?


No, network has no affect. Only HDMI and what modes your TV tells the HRx it supports.


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## MrLatte (Aug 19, 2007)

Could it also depend on the quality of your HDMI cable? Not sure if an HDMI 1.3 cable is required or not.


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## PackFan (Jul 18, 2006)

rahlquist said:


> Did you try the previous suggestion of bypassing the receiver? If you did this and it worked it would mean either a bad cable of the AV receiver is the problem in the chain. Contact Pioneer for firmware update for you AV receiver and TV?
> 
> I've seen this discussion before, and because the PS3(or whatever other device) will force a resolution ignoring the handshake that doesn't mean D* has to do that as well.


I haven't done it yet because it is a pain to do that on my mounted set. Firmware updates for brand new models, huh? I doubt it...

If one unit does it and another does not - sorry - the one that doesn't is at fault.


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## oldschoolecw (Jan 25, 2007)

rahlquist said:


> No, network has no affect. Only HDMI and what modes your TV tells the HRx it supports.


If this is true, then I have everything hooked up properly and it should work for me, but it's not.:nono2:


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## bobg (Mar 30, 2006)

I have Samsung 5271 and could not get 1080p to work.


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## RVD26 (Oct 12, 2007)

LarryFlowers said:


> It does work, don't monkey with it...
> 
> See now my post offsets your post. It's all in the details and if you are having a problem with it, let us help and provide DirecTV with valuable information by providing your details.
> 
> ...


Is your Samsung TV working at 1080p with your receiver?
I have a similar TV (LNT4661), but won't be able to test it until I get home later today.


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## rahlquist (Jul 24, 2007)

PackFan said:


> If one unit does it and another does not - sorry - the one that doesn't is at fault.


Not if the one that fails to work is following spec and the other is not.

The PS3 is simply handshaking and saying, hi take this input. (picture a kid holding his hands over his/her ears going NANANANNA I caaant hear youuu)

The HRx is saying hi, oh, you cant do this mode, fine I wont freak out your TV, damage your tv, turn your screen black with no picture etc. I will only do what you tell me I can do.

You can think of it in terms of a car with a speed governor set to 65 (almost all new cars have one that limits top speed though its higher than 65).

If your car key was a PS3 it would allow you to bypass the governor regardless of the outcome. You could redline your engine and blow it up, or the car could simply stop working. Your risk, your choice, it does open Sony up to problems, and calls about issues for misuse.

If your key was a HRx it sees the governed speed and abides by it. Now if your car is capable of doing a governed speed above 65 the HRx will gladly take you there because it would be operating within the limits dictated by your Car or in our case the TV.

DirecTV is highly unlikely to implement a feature to circumvent the handshake simply because it could lead to increased support costs.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

MrLatte said:


> Could it also depend on the quality of your HDMI cable? Not sure if an HDMI 1.3 cable is required or not.


No. Any HDMI that passes a signal will work.


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## PackFan (Jul 18, 2006)

rahlquist said:


> Not if the one that fails to work is following spec and the other is not.
> 
> The PS3 is simply handshaking and saying, hi take this input. (picture a kid holding his hands over his/her ears going NANANANNA I caaant hear youuu)
> 
> ...


Bottom line - it should work - it doesn't.


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## sammib (Jun 13, 2007)

Can someone explain what the 24 means in the term 1080p/24 or direct me to where this info is on this site. Thanks


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## barryb (Aug 27, 2007)

You must also have your DVR connected to the internet as 1080p comes over the internet via Directv On Demand.

(unless something new came about I am unaware of)


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## krock918316 (Mar 5, 2007)

PackFan said:


> Bottom line - it should work - it doesn't.


You might check out this thread over at AVSForum about your TV....

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1017082

The natives over there are restless over needing a firmware update for that TV. Specifically, look at post #4. Users are having difficulties with some "PureCinema" 1080P/24 issues.


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## drewx420 (Sep 9, 2006)

I have two HR20-700's and 1 HR21-700 with a Panasonic 50P77U with 1080P support. None of the DVR's work in 1080P. I also have a PS3 that works properly in 1080P with this TV.


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## PackFan (Jul 18, 2006)

krock918316 said:


> You might check out this thread over at AVSForum about your TV....
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1017082
> 
> The natives over there are restless over needing a firmware update for that TV. Specifically, look at post #4. Users are having difficulties with some "PureCinema" 1080P/24 issues.


Sorry - that is last year's model.


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## JerryMeeker (Sep 20, 2007)

I have the HR20-100 connected to a Denon AVR4301, connected in turn to a Sony Bravia KDL52XBR4, which supports 1080P/24. All connections are HDMI. I now see the 1080P option in Setup, and when I select it, it displays a screen test and asks whether the test is displaying properly. When I answer Yes, the system is now set up to receive 1080P/24.


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## bpratt (Nov 24, 2005)

sammib said:


> Can someone explain what the 24 means in the term 1080p/24 or direct me to where this info is on this site. Thanks


It means 24 frames per second. 1080i is 60 frames per second, however each frame is only 540 lines (alternate odd then even lines) so it is actually 30 full frames per second.

1080p can also be 30 or 60 full frames per second.

Probably the reason D* is supporting 24 frames per second is because nearly all movies are recorded at 24 frames per second.


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## Old Guy (Aug 9, 2007)

HR20-700

Sony KDS-60A3000 (Supports 1080i and 1080/24p)

Tried thru amp and direct HDMI connect.

"This TV does not support DIRECTV's 1080p broadcast"


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## bloveski (Aug 23, 2007)

I've found that my Samsung HL-S5087W DLP doesn't support 1080p24, only 1080p30, so that would explain why its not working for me. From what I read on the Samsung support site, all their 1080p DLPs only support 1080p30.

Are there any good posts out there describing why they're going with 1080p24?


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## JimmyB (Feb 15, 2008)

Stuart Sweet said:


> [*]A new Icon in DIRECTV On Demand and on the program's Info screen will indicate 1080p programs.[/list]


Anyone know what the new icon looks like?

JB


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## beckp (Sep 20, 2007)

Old Guy said:


> HR20-700
> 
> Sony KDS-60A3000 (Supports 1080i and 1080/24p)
> 
> ...


Same here, but with KDS-55A3000 and HDMI going straight to TV (not to reciever).


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## Old Guy (Aug 9, 2007)

beckp said:


> Same here, but with KDS-55A3000 and HDMI going straight to TV (not to reciever).


In another thread, someone suggested pressing the info button a few times when the HR-2X is checking the TV's resolution. Worked for me with the 60A3000.


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## bonscott (May 1, 2007)

If this new feature will only work for TVs that support 1080p/24 it is no use to probably at least 75 percent of DirecTV subscribers.


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## bpratt (Nov 24, 2005)

> A new Icon in DIRECTV On Demand and on the program's Info screen will indicate 1080p programs.


What does the icon look like? Is there currently any 1080P programming we can view or On Demand we can download?


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## krock918316 (Mar 5, 2007)

bloveski said:


> I've found that my Samsung HL-S5087W DLP doesn't support 1080p24, only 1080p30, so that would explain why its not working for me. From what I read on the Samsung support site, all their 1080p DLPs only support 1080p30.
> 
> Are there any good posts out there describing why they're going with 1080p24?


See post #24....

http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1849903&postcount=24


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## Hdhead (Jul 30, 2007)

It works for me but what good is it with no 1080p to download. They could of at least supplied a movie or two to try since this has been rolled out to all users. Sort of like buying a nice new car but it came without wheels.


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## gmac (Nov 15, 2007)

Stuart Sweet said:


> This is a discussion thread for the 1080p/24 support in the latest national release.
> 
> A little bit about this feature:
> 
> ...


in setup i check 1080P screen went black...pressed info button res now 1080p...
I do not see miscellaneous options screen.. or the new Icon in directv on demand nor the info screen indicating 1080p programs...


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## Greg Alsobrook (Apr 2, 2007)

Old Guy said:


> In another thread, someone suggested pressing the info button a few times when the HR-2X is checking the TV's resolution. Worked for me with the 60A3000.


Correct....

I have a Sony KDS-60A3000, and my HR21 tells me that it does not support it... but when I try to enable it and the screen goes black, I went ahead and hit "Info" to confirm that I can see the message (even though I can't)... and when i tried to play 1080p content, the TV recognized it as 1080p and displayed it properly...


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## jg! (May 7, 2007)

bonscott said:


> If this new feature will only work for TVs that support 1080p/24 it is no use to probably at least 75 percent of DirecTV subscribers.


I agree 100%!

It would have been a nice feature for me if it would upconvert all signals to 1080P*60*. My TV cannot display 1080P*24*.


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## bpratt (Nov 24, 2005)

AirRocker said:


> Correct....
> 
> I have a Sony KDS-60A3000, and my HR21 tells me that it does not support it... but when I try to enable it and the screen goes black, I went ahead and hit "Info" to confirm that I can see the message (even though I can't)... and when i tried to play 1080p content, the TV recognized it as 1080p and displayed it properly...


Where did you find 1080p content?


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## gmac (Nov 15, 2007)

AirRocker said:


> Correct....
> 
> I have a Sony KDS-60A3000, and my HR21 tells me that it does not support it... but when I try to enable it and the screen goes black, I went ahead and hit "Info" to confirm that I can see the message (even though I can't)... and when i tried to play 1080p content, the TV recognized it as 1080p and displayed it properly...


i have the same tv i also hit info button what did you watch to get 1080p content?


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## TomF (Sep 20, 2006)

Old Guy said:


> HR20-700
> 
> Sony KDS-60A3000 (Supports 1080i and 1080/24p)
> 
> ...


While this TV technicaly doesn't pass the 1080p "test", if you hit Info during the test, it will report that the TV supports 1080p and the 1080p box will be checked. Then go to Miscellaneous Options and it will show that this TV supports both 1080p/24 and 1080p/60.

After "cheating" on the test, I have been able to play The Bucket List, The Bank Job, and MI:III with the TV reporting 1080p/24 on both my HR20-700 and my HR21-100. My HR2xs are connected directly to the TV with HDMI 1.3 cables. There are other KDS-60A3000 owners, AirRocker to name one, that have reported that they have been able to successfully play the 1080p movies.


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## olguy (Jan 9, 2006)

Very interesting thread. I will be returning to DirecTV from the other side 11/13. When E* brought out the 1080p on 8/1 there were a lot of similar posts regarding mine won't or mine will. If memory serves many of the same TVs had problems there as well. Luckily for me mine did. But there was a real delay for some of us getting the movie. It was downloaded from sat to the HD and then you could watch it. Some folks never got it. I finally called Tech support and got it. Figured for $1.99 why not. After I watched it and could not discern a difference (might be due to cataract surgery a couple of months prior  ) I blocked out that PPV channel.


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## TomF (Sep 20, 2006)

bpratt said:


> Where did you find 1080p content?


When the 1080p feature was announced, VOD channel 1080 was available for downloading and testing. Four movies were eventually posted there, all in 1080p. With this latest release (0x0290), channel 1080 is no longer available.


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## dcowboy7 (May 23, 2008)

so if u dont do vod is there really any point in checking 1080p ?


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## beckp (Sep 20, 2007)

The Info button trick worked, wish they had some test material up.


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

*What does 1080/24p mean, and why does my "1080p" TV not support it?*

HDTVs can accept signal inputs of several different standardized resolutions, which is the number of pixels used to make the picture, and given in horizontal and vertical dimensions. Those are:


720x480 (Standard Def)
1280x720
1920x1080
In addition to resolution, there is also the Refresh Rate (the number of times per second that the picture is redrawn) and the Refresh Method (how the picture is redrawn). Early TVs had the ability to refresh the entire screen 30 times per second, but due to the way cathode ray technology worked, this didn't allow for motion to appear smooth and natural. Increasing the refresh rate would solve the problem, but it would require more bandwidth in the circuits, making TVs more expensive, and more importantly, more bandwidth when transmitting the TV signals, which would mean that the frequencies allotted by the FCC for TV broadcasts would have to be broken into fewer, larger pieces, meaning fewer channels.

Engineers came up with another solution: interlacing. Instead of having the electron gun in the TV set refresh or "paint" every line on each sweep (what we now call "progressive scan"), they designed it to refresh every other line. So, on the first pass of the gun, the odd-numbered lines would be refreshed, and on the second pass, the even lines would be refreshed. Working at the same speed, the gun would be refreshing the picture 60 times per second (though only half of the lines), which in effect smoothed out perceived motion, at the expense of "interlacing artifacts" such as straight horizontal lines "shimmering" or "stair-stepping". Thus was born the "60 times per second refresh rate, interlaced", which we abbreviate as "60i". Until about 2007, all consumer-grade TVs in the US had displays that were locked at 60 Hz.

Film works differently from video, and the very first motion picture, Eadweard Muybridge's 1878 capturing of a galloping horse, used 24 frames per second, as this was determined to be the fewest number of frames that gave realistic motion. Since then, film projection has evolved quite a bit (modern projectors actually display each frame twice), but the 24 frame standard remains the standard film speed for the entire industry. Film is bulky and expensive, so filmmakers needed to use the lowest number of frames per second that would get the job done.

Getting back to video&#8230;

In the late 90s, the first consumer-level TVs that were capable of displaying content in Progressive Scan were introduced. This became possible because the then-new technology called DVD had emerged, and all DVDs are mastered in the progressive (vs. interlaced) format, so for the first time, there was a device capable of outputting progressive-scan content that most consumers could afford and had embraced. DVD is still a standard-definition technology, of course, and its output is limited to 720x480/60p.

Then comes HDTV. The original two supported formats for US HDTVs were 1280x720/60p and 1920x1080/60i. Again, broadcast bandwidth played a big role in choosing these two formats. Not many years after, though, a new generation of video devices arrived on the consumer market, capable of outputting content at the highest HD resolution (1920x1080) using progressive scan. First were computers and video game consoles. These devices natively create 60 full frames per second, so having a TV that supported 1920x1080/60p would allow them to display at the upper limit of their capabilities. Manufacturers, always looking for the latest new feature, rushed to add 1080/60p input capabilities to their HDTVs, and advertised this feature heavily as "1080p". Note that the "60" was left out; wouldn't want to confuse consumers who are already grappling with all kinds of new terms and concepts.

Then came HD movie devices: the disc-based HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players (the former quickly becoming defunct, having lost the HD battle to the latter) and then the satellite and cable settop boxes. Where these differed from the video game consoles is that their content was sourced from film. Film, which is a 24-frame-per-second format, a number that doesn't divide into 60-frames-per-second of TV evenly. This has been a problem since the beginning of movies on TV, and we've lived with the compromises necessary to make it happen since the beginning. DVD players, being required to work on all earlier TVs, were designed to output all content at 60 frames per second, internally handling the necessary conversions. It wasn't ideal, but it was the best that could be feasibly done at the time.

HD gave engineers the opportunity to finally correct the problem, and technology made it (relatively) economical. Film-sourced HD content would be encoded at 24 frames per second, saving disc space and broadcast/transmit bandwidth when all devices in the chain supported the 24p format. For equipment that didn't, the content would be internally converted to 60i, which would be compatible with all video devices. 60p wouldn't be used, because there would be too much "expense" in processing cycles and bandwidth for too little gain.

The problem now is that most HDTVs were not made to support 1080/24p input signals, which didn't exist at the consumer level until a couple of years ago, and even many that do support 1080/24p as an input signal still have to convert that signal to 1080/60i in order to display it on the fixed 60Hz refresh rate display panel. It wasn't until about 2007 that the first HDTVs were made that not only supported 24p input signals, but also had displays that could switch refresh rates to a rate that was evenly divisible by 24. As of this writing, there are front projectors that offer, in addition to 60Hz, refresh rates of 48 or 72 Hz, plasmas that offer 48, 72, or 96 refresh rates, and LCDs that offer 120 Hz refresh rates. Even then, a few early models did not actually correctly display 24p content at a refresh multiple of 24. By late 2008, most higher-end models from major CE companies offered full 24p support with multiple-of-24 refresh rates, and it can only be expected to become a standard feature on nearly all HDTVs over the next few years.

Unfortunately, those who bought their HDTV in the last few years may own a TV that does not support 1080/24p, despite being advertised as "1080p". There isn't really anything that can be done for those TVs that doesn't happen already: 1080/24p content is converted into a format the TV can handle - 1080/60i. No doubt, this will look very good, but for those who are looking for "the best", they'll need to buy a TV with full 1080/24p support.


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## sammib (Jun 13, 2007)

bpratt said:


> It means 24 frames per second. 1080i is 60 frames per second, however each frame is only 540 lines (alternate odd then even lines) so it is actually 30 full frames per second.
> 
> 1080p can also be 30 or 60 full frames per second.
> 
> Probably the reason D* is supporting 24 frames per second is because nearly all movies are recorded at 24 frames per second.


Thank you


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## Max Mike (Oct 18, 2008)

Working on my Sony KDL-46V4100


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## exchguy (Jan 10, 2007)

Old Guy said:


> In another thread, someone suggested pressing the info button a few times when the HR-2X is checking the TV's resolution. Worked for me with the 60A3000.


Same here, also with Sony 60A3000 forced the 1080p option using the Info button.

I did confirm from Misc Options menu under Resolutions that it shows 1080p/24, 1080p/60.

Of course, the 1080p VOD channel is not there anymore so hard to really determine if it is working until the 1080p VOD content comes back again.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

bpratt said:


> What does the icon look like? Is there currently any 1080P programming we can view or On Demand we can download?


It looks a lot like the HD icon except it says [1080]. Right now there is not any 1080p programming but that's temporary.


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## PackFan (Jul 18, 2006)

exchguy said:


> Same here, also with Sony 60A3000 forced the 1080p option using the Info button.
> 
> I did confirm from Misc Options menu under Resolutions that it shows 1080p/24, 1080p/60.
> 
> Of course, the 1080p VOD channel is not there anymore so hard to really determine if it is working until the 1080p VOD content comes back again.


I'll try that tonight with my Kuro... Not the most obvious fix...


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## MarkJones (Jul 17, 2006)

Old Guy said:


> In another thread, someone suggested pressing the info button a few times when the HR-2X is checking the TV's resolution. Worked for me with the 60A3000.


This little trick worked for me also.


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## mactivist (Oct 6, 2008)

Can someone explain to me what steps I'm supposed to follow to make sure my DVR is outputting 1080p when it's available?

When I go into Setup and select HDTV, I see a hidden tab labeled TV Resolutions. I don't know how to navigate to that tab (pressing the right arrow button doesn't work).

Do I have to put the DVR in Native mode too?

Has DirecTV posted setup instructions yet?

Thanks.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

mactivist said:


> When I go into Setup and select HDTV, I see a hidden tab labeled TV Resolutions. I don't know how to navigate to that tab (pressing the right arrow button doesn't work).


Press the up arror to get the tabs highlited and the cursor over to TV Resolutions.


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## Maverickster (Sep 20, 2007)

O.K., I have it enabled. So, where can a brotha get some 1080p content to test this out?!

--Mav


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## RVD26 (Oct 12, 2007)

Maverickster said:


> O.K., I have it enabled. So, where can a brotha get some 1080p content to test this out?!
> 
> --Mav


There's none available yet


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## Maverickster (Sep 20, 2007)

RVD26 said:


> There's none available yet


Well, now that's just poor planning...

--Mav


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## B Newt (Aug 12, 2007)

I was surprised that my Vizio VU42l was supported.


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## topflight70 (Mar 29, 2008)

Just FYI...

HR21 Pro running HDMI to Samsung LCD (LNT4069F) works ok without the info button trick.

*Now... BRING ON THE CONTENT!!!*


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## JimV (Feb 3, 2007)

My Series 5 Samsung supports 1080p or at least it passed the 'test'.

no 1080p content to test with and I can't find the miscellaneous menu option some others have mentioned.


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## jeffreydj (Aug 17, 2008)

My HP 42Inch is 1080/24P capable and I do have the option in the menu. But, like everyone else, I get the "This set is not support" ... Oh well...


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## wmccain (Jan 9, 2006)

bonscott said:


> If this new feature will only work for TVs that support 1080p/24 it is no use to probably at least 75 percent of DirecTV subscribers.


In terms of being able to display 1080/24p directly on a TV set, the feature is of "no use" to certainly more than 95% of subscribers. After all, TV sets with this capability are mostly "new for 2008" - and, generally, only the premium models from each manufacturer have this feature.

But ... the 1080/24p feature has OTHER redeeming qualities, so it is NOT "useless" at all. In fact, the main reason for adding this feature was surely the fact that it reduces the download time for movies in "Video On Demand" by around 20%. Do the math, and you will find that the bandwidth of 1080/24p is actually 20% LESS than the bandwidth of 1080/60i.

(And 1080/60p is TWICE the bandwidth of 1080/60i, which makes 1080/60p all but useless as a transfer medium. Not to mention the fact that there is no native material in 1080/60p anyway, since movie-originated material is 24p and video-originated material is 60i.)

As I mentioned in another thread, 1080/24p is not really new as a recording medium, since HR20 receivers have ALWAYS had that capability - it is a REQUIREMENT of the terrestrial ATSC standard (for recording OTA broadcasts). Not that any broadcaster has ever actually USED that format (it is one of 18 formats mandated by the ATSC standard, even though only 4 of those formats have ever actually been used for other-than-experimental broadcasting).

For more details on this, and some reflection on what 1080/24p really "means to you", see my other post at:

*1080/24p and the Normal User*

William C. McCain
Palo Alto, California


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## Busterbear (Jun 7, 2006)

Old Guy said:


> HR20-700
> 
> Sony KDS-60A3000 (Supports 1080i and 1080/24p)
> 
> ...


The Sony 3000 series SXRD Rear Projection sets DO work with the HR20. The older 2000 and 2020 series SXRD's DO NOT.

When you select the 1080P option on the resolution setup page; as soon as the screen goes black during the check, press the "info" button on the HR20 remote. In a few seconds the DVR WILL report that your TV does support 1080p/24

As of now DirecTv does not have any 1080P programs available via ON Demand.
You won't have any way of testing until you have a source. As far as I can tell they will only be available through On Demand (You must have an active internet connection setup properly on you DVR. 1080P source may become available on PPV.

I had downloaded all 5 of the 1080P/24 test movies and truthfully only the "Bucket List" really impressed me. "48 Hours" looked no better than any average 720p.

Post your results if you can get the DVR to report support.


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## Busterbear (Jun 7, 2006)

JimV said:


> My Series 5 Samsung supports 1080p or at least it passed the 'test'.
> 
> no 1080p content to test with and I can't find the miscellaneous menu option some others have mentioned.


Miscellaneous menu only displays if you have an active internet connection setup to your DVR.


----------



## flipptyfloppity (Aug 20, 2007)

bpratt said:


> It means 24 frames per second. 1080i is 60 frames per second, however each frame is only 540 lines (alternate odd then even lines) so it is actually 30 full frames per second.
> 
> 1080p can also be 30 or 60 full frames per second.
> 
> Probably the reason D* is supporting 24 frames per second is because nearly all movies are recorded at 24 frames per second.


1080i is 60 FIELDS per second. Two interlaced fields make up a frame. So 30 frames per second.

The hardware D* uses cannot do 1080p/60. It can support 1080p/30 or 1080p/24. 1080p/30 doesn't make any sense, because it would cause massive judder (every 4th film frame would be on screen for twice as long as the rest). So there are only two reasonable output formats:

1080p/24
1080i/60

1080p24 isn't supported by many TVs, but if you have it, it works great.
1080i/60 is pretty good, it has the same amount of judder as normal DVDs do, which most people don't seem to mind. Each film frame is shown for 2 or 3 fields (alternately), and so the judder isn't too bad. Some TVs will see that the video is being displaying in this fashion and will reverse the pulldown so that the film is actually shown at true 24fps (requires a 48Hz, 72Hz or 120Hz capability in the TV).


----------



## mactivist (Oct 6, 2008)

I tried setting my HR20 to 1080p today, but no luck.

My setup:

* Pioneer ELITE Signature Series PRO-141FD Monitor
* Pioneer ELITE SC-05 Receiver
* HDMI 1.3 cables

Bypassing the AVR is not going to be an acceptable solution for many people. Many of us are using monitors and run all audio and other devices through our receivers.


----------



## smokey99 (Oct 22, 2007)

My Sony LCD KDL-46W4100 worked like a charm... no problems selecting 1080P. Now I can't wait for some programming.


----------



## awalt (Jul 30, 2007)

Busterbear said:


> The Sony 3000 series SXRD Rear Projection sets DO work with the HR20. The older 2000 and 2020 series SXRD's DO NOT.


This appears to be incorrect - I have an A2020, and it passed the setup test fine - I had to use the Info key trick, but it reported 1080p works and it is now configured for it. I have not tested with 1080p content yet though...


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## shovelhd (Dec 11, 2006)

Samsung HL67A750, 1080p/24 setup went without a hitch.

I could not find any 1080p on demand programming.


----------



## Starchy77 (Jul 18, 2008)

No problems with my Sharp Aquos LC52D64U - pulled up the 1080p without a hitch. Now bring on the content!


----------



## RVD26 (Oct 12, 2007)

Well, I'm glad to say my Samsung LNT4661 passed the 1080p test


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## hoyty76 (Oct 17, 2007)

wmccain said:


> In terms of being able to display 1080/24p directly on a TV set, the feature is of "no use" to certainly more than 95% of subscribers. After all, TV sets with this capability are mostly "new for 2008" - and, generally, only the premium models from each manufacturer have this feature.
> William C. McCain
> Palo Alto, California


I agree with you and as with other features it is forward looking. When I got my DST-3000 in March of 2001 and it had the ability to output HD content probably 95% or more of DirecTV users couldn't see the content. Now 1080i and 720p HD content is far more useable by the broad base of users. 1080p/24 will be more useful every day as users get new TV's as well.


----------



## awalt (Jul 30, 2007)

I tried enabling 1080p on my Sony 60A2000 (the 50A2020 works fine), and it said not supported. It seems to support full 1080p, I check soundvision's review and they said this:



> Also new are two 1080p-capable HDMI digital inputs alongside the usual bevy of component- and S-/composite-video connections. Unlike on earlier SXRDs, these HDMI inputs will accept the native 1080p signal coming from a high-definition disc player and put that up on the TV's 1080p screen without requiring a signal conversion. But the ultimate value of this remains a question. Since movie content on both the Blu-ray and HD DVD disc formats are carried as 1080p HDTV, the thinking is that it's best to keep the signal in that format rather than making the player convert the content to a 1080i HDTV signal only to have the TV convert it back to 1080p for display.


So I guess I can check cables and stuff, but I believe I have it set up identical to the 2020. Any reasons anyone can think of why the 2000 does not work?


----------



## alfredk (Feb 19, 2008)

bpratt said:


> It means 24 frames per second. 1080i is 60 frames per second, however each frame is only 540 lines (alternate odd then even lines) so it is actually 30 full frames per second.
> 
> 1080p can also be 30 or 60 full frames per second.
> 
> Probably the reason D* is supporting 24 frames per second is because nearly all movies are recorded at 24 frames per second.


Just bought a high end Panasonic Vera HDTV only 6 months ago. It works all BluRay1080p. I have the HR20DVR-700. After the the new SW upgrade pused through the other day, I tried to setip 1080p. Problem is this new set is only 1080p/60. I am not in a position to buy a new TV in only this 6 month short period. Does anyone know if there will be a new SW upgrade from DTV in the futurre that will support 1080p/60 ?? Can not believe I have to buy a new set in only 6 months.


----------



## awalt (Jul 30, 2007)

awalt said:


> I tried enabling 1080p on my Sony 60A2000 (the 50A2020 works fine), and it said not supported. It seems to support full 1080p, I check soundvision's review and they said this:
> 
> So I guess I can check cables and stuff, but I believe I have it set up identical to the 2020. Any reasons anyone can think of why the 2000 does not work?


I tried the A2000 again, and it setup perfectly! So try again if your fails. Maybe it needs to be warmed up?


----------



## oldengineer (May 25, 2008)

My LG series 50 set passed the test. I'm pretty sure its not 24 fps capable.


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## schneid (Aug 14, 2007)

My Samsung FP-T5084 will except 24fps from my HTPC and my BD player. It is a 50" plasma and I really can't detect a difference. I just don't think it is a big whoop. It is agreed that plasmas have issues with 24fps because of the 2/3 pulldown but it doesn't bother me that much.

What is more important is the new 120hz sets coming out. I am not an expert but all this 24, 30, 60 stuff involves how many frames of film/digital were shot per second and then how to display them on a display monitor that cycles 60 times per second. I think I read film is shot at 24fps and digital at 30fps. For 24fps a 2/3 pull down is used. The display flashes the first frame twice, the second thrice, then twice again, and then thrice, and so on.

So don't go out and buy a new set now. Wait for the 120hz sets to saturate the market. 120 is the magic number as 24, 30, and 60 all multiply into that number neatly.

Wikipedia explains it much better here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24p


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## DarinC (Aug 31, 2004)

wmccain said:


> Do the math, and you will find that the bandwidth of 1080/24p is actually 20% LESS than the bandwidth of 1080/60i.


Just a little nit-pick... Since your other post says "20% less bandwidth, to be exact", I have to assume you are basing this on the the fact that 24 is exactly 20% less than 30 fps. That doesn't actually save any bandwidth. When 24fps content is encoded into a 30fps stream, the mpeg encoder inserts repeat flags to tell it to repeat the last frame. There is no bandwidth consumed by the redundant frames, because it just re-uses the previously encoded ones. There IS a bandwidth savings, but that is because it is generally more efficient to encode progressive content compared to interlaced content. But this savings is more variable, and depends on the content as well as the encoder.

It should also be noted that just because you have a 120hz (or other multiple of 24) display, doesn't mean your display properly handles 24fps content. Some of them actually still do 3:2 pulldown rather than a proper 5:5 (or whatever), so you may still not get proper cadence with a 24fps source. Here is a list of displays known to properly handle 24fps content.


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## PackFan (Jul 18, 2006)

Just to be clear - 

Pressing the INFO button in order to get the HR2x to pass the test is no guarantee that it will actually work on your TV. It is a way of 'cheating' the test to get it to pass, even if the resolution does not show up on the TV.

I hope that D* is smart enough to put some kind of FREE 1080p test video on ON DEMAND so that we can properly test it out before purchasing a movie...


----------



## Maverickster (Sep 20, 2007)

PackFan said:


> Just to be clear -
> 
> Pressing the INFO button in order to get the HR2x to pass the test is no guarantee that it will actually work on your TV. It is a way of 'cheating' the test to get it to pass, even if the resolution does not show up on the TV.
> 
> I hope that D* is smart enough to put some kind of FREE 1080p test video on ON DEMAND so that we can properly test it out before purchasing a movie...


+1


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## kbxm (Mar 15, 2007)

Maverickster said:


> +1


+2

That'd be great for making sure it works properly.


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## jumpytoad (Mar 14, 2008)

Starchy77 said:


> No problems with my Sharp Aquos LC52D64U - pulled up the 1080p without a hitch. Now bring on the content!


Strange mine did not

Sharp LC52D64U
HR-21 Pro HDMI straight to TV


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## Baconbeard (Jun 18, 2007)

awalt said:


> I tried the A2000 again, and it setup perfectly! So try again if your fails. Maybe it needs to be warmed up?


The A2000 DOES NOT support 1080P/24p. You essentially just tricked the test, but that doesn't mean it is going to work properly when the content comes out.

I have the KDS60A2000, and it does not support 1080P/24p


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## Dad61 (Sep 26, 2008)

I got a phone call this morning from Directv apologizing for problems Tuesday. I had no significant problems w/my HR-22 except that I can no longer dim or shut of the "circle of blue". The other problem that really has me baffled is that my 52 in Sharp Aquos doesn't recognize Directv's version of 1080p. What is the difference between Direc's version and let's say my BlueRay/HD players version of 1080p? Can anyone explain this for me? Very curious about this. I may have found the answer. Does it have to do with 1080p/24 vs 1080p/60? or 1080p/120? There is nothing in the specs for the TV that says anything about 24/60/72/120, does anyone know where this info can be found? Connected through HDMI and connected to the internet.
Last edited by Dad61 : Today at 03:18 PM. Reason: May have found the answer already


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## Dad61 (Sep 26, 2008)

jumpytoad said:


> Strange mine did not
> 
> Sharp LC52D64U
> HR-21 Pro HDMI straight to TV


Same with mine. Did not work. HR-22

I did the INFO button and it worked!!!


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## Gunnyman (Jul 25, 2003)

beckp said:


> Same here, but with KDS-55A3000 and HDMI going straight to TV (not to reciever).


Also same here.


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## PackFan (Jul 18, 2006)

Dad61 said:


> Same with mine. Did not work. HR-22
> 
> I did the INFO button and it worked!!!


Did it work? Or did you just 'cheat' the system? Only if you saw your screen temporarily change to 1080p can you know for sure.

I pressed the INFO button on mine too - but I never saw the 1080p resolution actually display on my TV...


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## PackFan (Jul 18, 2006)

More problems over at AVSForum: Link

Will DirecTV admit they have a problem here?


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## Dad61 (Sep 26, 2008)

PackFan said:


> Did it work? Or did you just 'cheat' the system? Only if you saw your screen temporarily change to 1080p can you know for sure.
> 
> I pressed the INFO button on mine too - but I never saw the 1080p resolution actually display on my TV...


You are right, I don't know for sure , have to wait for 1080p content to know for sure. But my TV accepted it and in the DVR setup it says that it is an accepted resolution.....so I am assuming based on the fact that I know my TV accepts 1080p from every thing else, including my 64bit computer. Im going to check out that link in your other post too.


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## HDinATL (Aug 26, 2008)

I have the Panasonic PZ80 plasma 1080p and it passed the 1080P test without a glitch.
Just vod'ed the 1080p version of Harry Potter - looks almost 3D!! Very happy...


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## exchguy (Jan 10, 2007)

HDinATL said:


> I have the Panasonic PZ80 plasma 1080p and it passed the 1080P test without a glitch.
> Just vod'ed the 1080p version of Harry Potter - looks almost 3D!! Very happy...


How did you VOD the 1080p version? I thought the 1080 test channel with the test 1080p content was removed after the CE was over and the 290 went national? I guess I need to check this when I get home.


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## Indiana627 (Nov 18, 2005)

smokey99 said:


> My Sony LCD KDL-46W4100 worked like a charm... no problems selecting 1080P. Now I can't wait for some programming.


Same here with my Sony 52W4100!


----------



## Busterbear (Jun 7, 2006)

awalt said:


> This appears to be incorrect - I have an A2020, and it passed the setup test fine - I had to use the Info key trick, but it reported 1080p works and it is now configured for it. I have not tested with 1080p content yet though...


I hope your correct. But, per Sony only the 3000 series with 120Hrz will display 1080p/24. It does this by displaying each frame five times. 5 x 24=120.
It does 1080p/60 by displaying each frame twice. 2 x 60=120.

It is also necessary to make a setting in the Sony X-Bar menu setup.
After you start a 1080p/24 program for the first time. On the Sony remote select "Home" Scroll left to "Settings"; scroll down to "Video Options" and select; Scroll down to "Motion Naturalizer" and select. Scroll down to the second page to the HDMI input you are using for your DVR. On the the HDMIx 1080/24p entry; make sure the setting is "Off". "x" is the actual number of the HDMI input you are using.
Good Luck
Bill


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## awalt (Jul 30, 2007)

Thanks - it will be nice to try it with some 1080p content....


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## jerseyreef (Jun 9, 2007)

I have the Panny TH-50PZ850-U, which supports 1080p/24 and I passed the setup test. Now I just need some content!!!

BTW - I noticed a new menu option

System Setup>Network>*Network Services*

The text says:

_"Choose Automatic if you want the STB to configure the services port for you. Otherwise select manual, choose your ports from the pre-defined ranges and configure your router to forward these ports"_

HR21-100 is already networked to my PC to stream pics, music and video. What does the Network Services option provide?


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## rahlquist (Jul 24, 2007)

jerseyreef said:


> HR21-100 is already networked to my PC to stream pics, music and video. What does the Network Services option provide?


Future use. Nothing currently.


----------



## wmccain (Jan 9, 2006)

DarinC said:


> Just a little nit-pick... Since your other post says "20% less bandwidth, to be exact", I have to assume you are basing this on the the fact that 24 is exactly 20% less than 30 fps. That doesn't actually save any bandwidth. When 24fps content is encoded into a 30fps stream, the mpeg encoder inserts repeat flags to tell it to repeat the last frame. There is no bandwidth consumed by the redundant frames, because it just re-uses the previously encoded ones. There IS a bandwidth savings, but that is because it is generally more efficient to encode progressive content compared to interlaced content. But this savings is more variable, and depends on the content as well as the encoder.


You are absolutely correct. I was comparing _decoded_ data streams, which was an oversight on my part. In fact, the data stream downloaded over IP will be in MPEG(4) format, which has the flags that you described. Movies on DVD were often poorly encoded, and many of them failed to reduce redundancy properly, but presumably most encoding nowadays is done "smarter".



DarinC said:


> It should also be noted that just because you have a 120hz (or other multiple of 24) display, doesn't mean your display properly handles 24fps content. Some of them actually still do 3:2 pulldown rather than a proper 5:5 (or whatever), so you may still not get proper cadence with a 24fps source. Here is a list of displays known to properly handle 24fps content.


Yes, that is another "gotcha" to watch for!

Personally, my eyes are "too old" to be able to see "micro-judder", so the 3/2 cadence of (say) 1080/60p is "good enough for me". Nevertheless, when buying a new display or projector, I would certainly insist on one with a correct implementation of 24 fps.

I note that Sony has even "upped the ante" by announcing new sets with a 240Hz refresh rate.

Bill


----------



## armophob (Nov 13, 2006)

Am I trying to hard to look for technical data on my Panasonic TH-50PX60U. Does every ones manuals but mine show 1080p/24 or 1080p/30(1080p/60) in the specs? Or is this a personal discovery thing? I know Doug just started a thread that says don't post if your tv does not support 1080p/24, but how do I know if none of the documentation tells me?


----------



## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

armophob said:


> Am I trying to hard to look for technical data on my Panasonic TH-50PX60U. Does every ones manuals but mine show 1080p/24 or 1080p/30(1080p/60) in the specs? Or is this a personal discovery thing? I know Doug just started a thread that says don't post if your tv does not support 1080p/24, but how do I know if none of the documentation tells me?


The Panny 1080p plasma sets are not compatible, at least those from last year like the one I have 50PZ77U.

One the other hand my 20" LG LCD set passed the test, I thought it was a joke then I dug up the manual and it says right there 1080p/24Hz supported, go figure. It is not even a 1080p set, only 1366x768p.


----------



## armophob (Nov 13, 2006)

jacmyoung said:


> The Panny 1080p plasma sets are not compatible, at least those from last year like the one I have 50PZ77U.
> 
> One the other hand my 20" LG LCD set passed the test, I thought it was a joke then I dug up the manual and it says right there 1080p/24Hz supported, go figure. It is not even a 1080p set, only 1366x768p.


But when I loaded The Bank Job I watched it fine. Now that was 1080p/24 correct?


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## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

armophob said:


> But when I loaded The Bank Job I watched it fine. Now that was 1080p/24 correct?


I watched several 1080p movies just fine too, when the set did not pass the test, the DVR simply used the default resolution, in my case 1080i. You need to go into the HDTV resolution menu to test the 1080p/24 mode.

I did a quick google search, looked to me the newer PZ models this year all support 24p now. And the price is about $1,000 cheaper than the last year too.


----------



## TreyS (Aug 22, 2006)

wolfmark said:


> They did during the CE releases. I had to do the INFO button trick as well to get my HR20-700 to pass 1080p to my tv. Afterwards, watched "Bucket List" and "MI3" in 1080p according to the HR20s 720p and 1080i being lit.


Where and how are you guys getting 1080p content? Where was Bucket List and MI3 located to download?

I can't find the movies anywhere.


----------



## armophob (Nov 13, 2006)

jacmyoung said:


> I watched several 1080p movies just fine too, when the set did not pass the test, the DVR simply used the default resolution, in my case 1080i. You need to go into the HDTV resolution menu to test the 1080p/24 mode.
> 
> I did a quick google search, looked to me the newer PZ models this year all support 24p now. And the price is about $1,000 cheaper than the last year too.


Yes, I do the test as always. And the only way to get it to accept the 1080p is to hit info during the search. But it does not specify /24 or /60. Regardless, my specs on the tv do say that it will accept a 1080p signal, but you are probably correct that it is just adjusting it to a 1080i display. 
So back to my original question, does everyone's manuals that accept 1080p/24 or /60 actually say that in the specifications or are you all having to experiment to find out individually?


----------



## fluffybear (Jun 19, 2004)

TreyS said:


> Where and how are you guys getting 1080p content? Where was Bucket List and MI3 located to download?
> 
> I can't find the movies anywhere.


Bucket List and MI3 were on the 1080 test channel. DirecTV discontinued the test channel sometime last weekend. I suspect this was done in preparation for the National Release.

I suspect (personal opinion only) we might see some 1080p offerings in the next few weeks.


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## HDinATL (Aug 26, 2008)

There are currently 4 1080p movies that show up for me in the program search.

The Happening two times one is cbr the other is vbr (it's vod'ing this as I write), Harry Potter which I vod'ed yesterday and looks great, and Baby Mama. All I did was put 1080P in the search and they came up.


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## STEVEN-H (Jan 19, 2007)

HDinATL said:


> There are currently 4 1080p movies that show up for me in the program search.
> 
> The Happening two times one is cbr the other is vbr (it's vod'ing this as I write), Harry Potter which I vod'ed yesterday and looks great, and Baby Mama. All I did was put 1080P in the search and they came up.


I can not find any. Could you please tell us where you entered 1080p in search to find these?
TIA


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## HDinATL (Aug 26, 2008)

Sure,

Open your browser, go to the dtv search site (m.directv.com), enter your name and pw, do a program search for 1080P. That's all I did and I can see all 4 of them.


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## rahlquist (Jul 24, 2007)

armophob said:


> But when I loaded The Bank Job I watched it fine. Now that was 1080p/24 correct?


Output from the HD DVR at 1080P is announced by both resolution lights on the right of the unit being on during playback, anything less than BOTH mean its outputting it over the HDMI in a lower resolution.


----------



## STEVEN-H (Jan 19, 2007)

HDinATL said:


> Sure,
> 
> Open your browser, go to the dtv search site (m.directv.com), enter your name and pw, do a program search for 1080P. That's all I did and I can see all 4 of them.


OK I found them! Thank you. I was doing the search from the TV not the web site.


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## rahlquist (Jul 24, 2007)

HDinATL said:


> Sure,
> 
> Open your browser, go to the dtv search site (m.directv.com), enter your name and pw, do a program search for 1080P. That's all I did and I can see all 4 of them.


Ohoh nooooooooooo

/me watches as bandwidth on the whole internet gets sucked down by 1080p downloads.........

Glad to see someone found something to test 1080p with


----------



## rahlquist (Jul 24, 2007)

STEVEN-H said:


> OK I am on the D site and signed in I can not find where to do a program search?


m.directv.com has a very limited interface search is the first button after login.

BTW a hint, http://m.directv.com is optimized for use on mobile devices..... So if you forget to schedule something bust out the cell and login and select and away you go.


----------



## Hdhead (Jul 30, 2007)

HDinATL said:


> Sure,
> 
> Open your browser, go to the dtv search site (m.directv.com), enter your name and pw, do a program search for 1080P. That's all I did and I can see all 4 of them.


Nice find! Got 48 Hours downloading now. Why are there 2 versions of some movies?
A CBR and VBR version?


----------



## rahlquist (Jul 24, 2007)

Hdhead said:


> Nice find! Got 48 Hours downloading now. Why are there 2 versions of some movies?
> A CBR and VBR version?


Different compressions schema. Variable Bit Rate means the compression bitrate can fluctuate so that maximum compression is archived. Constant Bit Rate means the bit rate never changes and the compression is usually not as tight but more predictable in terms of errors. At least thats my rough understanding.


----------



## Hdhead (Jul 30, 2007)

rahlquist said:


> Different compressions schema. Variable Bit Rate means the compression bitrate can fluctuate so that maximum compression is archived. Constant Bit Rate means the bit rate never changes and the compression is usually not as tight but more predictable in terms of errors. At least thats my rough understanding.


Thanks, what ever that means. Which is a better choice then? This whole deal is getting way above the the average consumers intelligence level. That said, just the fact that I am downloading a 1080p movie right now via wireless makes me an almost intelligent user.


----------



## schneid (Aug 14, 2007)

HDinATL said:


> Sure,
> 
> Open your browser, go to the dtv search site (m.directv.com), enter your name and pw, do a program search for 1080P. That's all I did and I can see all 4 of them.


I got all these:

Search for: [1080p]
Page 1/1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Happening 1080p LS[HD] - VOD
Scorpion King 2, The: Rise of ...[HD] -
VOD
The Scorpion King 1080p[HD] - VOD
Sex And The City 1080p VBR[HD] - VOD
MissionImpossibleIII1080p[HD] - VOD
The Happening 1080p CBR[HD] - VOD
Harry Potter 1080p[HD] - VOD
The Happening 1080p VBR[HD] - VOD
Baby Mama 1080p CBR[HD] - VOD
Harry Potter 1080p VBR[HD] - VOD
Sex And The City 1080p CBR[HD] - VOD
48 Hours. 1080p[HD] - VOD

I didn't know you this mobile app allowed searches. I may be blind but can you search on the big screen web site?

AND, ARE THESE PPV?


----------



## L2BENGTREK (May 31, 2006)

Busterbear said:


> The Sony 3000 series SXRD Rear Projection sets DO work with the HR20. The older 2000 and 2020 series SXRD's DO NOT.
> 
> When you select the 1080P option on the resolution setup page; as soon as the screen goes black during the check, press the "info" button on the HR20 remote. In a few seconds the DVR WILL report that your TV does support 1080p/24


Tried the info button trick on my KDS-50A2000 last night. Worked like a charm. Even went back in and unhighlighted 1080p and did it *without* hitting the info button. Didn't recognize it. Had to do it again *with* the info button. I guess that's the key. Wish there was some 1080p content to confirm!

The new KDL-40v4100 did it...no problem.


----------



## TAnsley (Sep 21, 2006)

Busterbear said:


> I hope your correct. But, per Sony only the 3000 series with 120Hrz will display 1080p/24. It does this by displaying each frame five times. 5 x 24=120.
> It does 1080p/60 by displaying each frame twice. 2 x 60=120.
> 
> It is also necessary to make a setting in the Sony X-Bar menu setup.
> ...


Displaying and accepting as input are two different things. the 2020 may well accept 24p, but may convert it to 1080i or 1080p/60.


----------



## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

HDinATL said:


> Sure,
> 
> Open your browser, go to the dtv search site (m.directv.com), enter your name and pw, do a program search for 1080P. That's all I did and I can see all 4 of them.


Thanks for the nice find.

I recorded SATC for the wife as she was on the verge of buying the DVD

It played without asking for any payment, so they are free, still in test mode.

I also noticed the download time was much less than the usual HD VOD shows.


----------



## HDinATL (Aug 26, 2008)

It looks like they're up to 7 movies for free to d/l. I just took at look at the VOD scheduler on the regular directv website and they all show up and all are marked for free. I hope they keep adding new ones!!


----------



## L2BENGTREK (May 31, 2006)

L2BENGTREK said:


> Wish there was some 1080p content to confirm!


Just found a few, downloading now!


----------



## whereami (Mar 14, 2008)

Hdhead said:


> Thanks, what ever that means. Which is a better choice then? This whole deal is getting way above the the average consumers intelligence level. That said, just the fact that I am downloading a 1080p movie right now via wireless makes me an almost intelligent user.


Ditto. Which is better? CBR or VBR?


----------



## DarinC (Aug 31, 2004)

Hdhead said:


> Why are there 2 versions of some movies?
> A CBR and VBR version?


Are you saying there was a CBR version and a VBR version, or were you guessing as to what may be different between the two available choices? It would surprise me that they would use CBR for download purposes. VBR is generally more efficient in cases where you _can_ vary the bitrate (such as non real-time downloads), as you spend the bits where you need them most. I don't know why they'd bother having a separate CBR encode.

VBR is used on discs (DVD, Blu-ray, etc.), because they have a fixed TOTAL storage, so they save bitrate on less intensive scenes, and use as much as they need for more intensive scenes. CBR is generally used for live streaming when you have a fixed-size pipe, because there's nothing gained by reducing bitrate below the bandwidth of the pipe. To look at it another way, VBR attempts to maintain a constant quality, and lets the bitrate change as the demands of the content changes. CBR uses a fixed bitrate, and the quality changes as the content changes (high action and/or detail scenes lose quality, simple scenes gain quality).


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## STEVEN-H (Jan 19, 2007)

I am not sure what method was used during the beta in ce but, I have no problem playing them back. I downloaded Harry Potter at VBR and had jerky video so I deleted it and am now downloadin CBR. Will test later tonight.


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## DarinC (Aug 31, 2004)

Technically, VBR should not be a problem. Virtually everything DirecTV broadcasts is VBR. They use statistical multiplexing to steer bandwidth to the channels that need it most at any given moment. That's not to say that there isn't something wrong with that particular encode, but as far as any DirecTV receiver is concerned, VBR is the norm, not the exception.


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## Gunnyman (Jul 25, 2003)

Harry Potter in 1080p/24 looked gorgeous!


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## schneid (Aug 14, 2007)

Looks great. Download didn't take very long. Display verifies its 24p and DD 5.1 is decoding fine.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

I logged onto the site and say the 1080p conten there but when I said to record I never got the popup box asking what DVR to record it to. I then tried on another computer and the 1080p VoD's aren't there anymore.


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## Cmnore (Sep 22, 2008)

That's funny. I just remotely scheduled 4 movies to one of three DVR's I have networked at home. Might want to try another browser?


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## Podkayne (Nov 1, 2007)

Alas, my Panny TH58PZ700U is only 15 months old and although it displays "1080p" I can't find anywhere at what rate. It's probably 1080p/60 because it gagged on the resolution test from my HR20.

Jeez, I still have three payments left on this TV and it's already obsolete!?

Is there a box that can convert 1080p/24 to 1080p/60 for this TV?

I haven't bought a Blu Ray player yet, so am I going to have the same problem?


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

Cmnore said:


> That's funny. I just remotely scheduled 4 movies to one of three DVR's I have networked at home. Might want to try another browser?


Browser worked fine for other channels. The other system I tried uses a different ISP and DNS servers so theres a chance that I'm seeing different servers between the two PC's.


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## mridan (Nov 15, 2006)

I can download on demand content with my remote no problems,but when I select something on d*s website to download it doesn't work.What am I doing wrong?


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## schneid (Aug 14, 2007)

I successfully DLed The Happening 1080p VBR. it displayed at 24fps w/o issue and DD worked.

One interesting observation was that both my 720p and 1080i front panel resolution Indicator Lights were lit on my HR20-100. I wonder if this is a "feature" to denote 1080p playback?


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

schneid said:


> One interesting observation was that both my 720p and 1080i front panel resolution Indicator Lights were lit on my HR20-100. I wonder if this is a "feature" to denote 1080p playback?


You are correct, that's how 1080p output is indicated.


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## macsnjets (Oct 7, 2008)

I'm still confused and maybe someone can help clear this up. I have a Sharp LC52SE94U and Sharp says it can handle anything I give it. In the system setup I'm able to select and check off the 1080p box. it in turn tells me 1080p is available but when I go back to the System setup status where it list the summary of settings, it tells me the TV Resolution is 1080i. Being that I'm able to select the 1080p box is this enough to confirm my TV will support the 1080p/24 frame rate ?

Thanks


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## jerseyreef (Jun 9, 2007)

RAD said:


> Browser worked fine for other channels. The other system I tried uses a different ISP and DNS servers so theres a chance that I'm seeing different servers between the two PC's.


I can't find any 1080P content to download anywhere. When I search using the remote I type in 1080P for "keyword" and "title" under "search for shows", I get nada. And when I search online using the VOD scheduler, I type in 1080P and get nada.

I'm doing anything wrong?

Mike


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

jerseyreef said:


> I can't find any 1080P content to download anywhere. When I search using the remote I type in 1080P for "keyword" and "title" under "search for shows", I get nada. And when I search online using the VOD scheduler, I type in 1080P and get nada.
> 
> I'm doing anything wrong?
> 
> Mike


It appears that DirecTV has pulled the 1080p content from DoD based on what I saw and someothers have reported.


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## studdad (Aug 11, 2008)

Did not pass. WTF. I have the Sammy 750 (latest LCD model) which supports 1080p/24, a Yamaha 1800 AVR, and the HR22-100. I go HDMI 1.3 to receiver and receiver out to the tv. Receiver just passes all signals. Tried it both with AMP on and Off (AMP is auto motion plus, or the frame interpolation software). Funny thing, is when I click on 1080p, it shows the banner "your tv has passed" or whatever, for about 1/2 a second, then goes to black screen, and then says it does not pass. From reading some of the posts in here, it sounds like the update for this is a mess and needs to be fixed right away. How do I do the "info" thing, and why do people think they are getting 1080p while doing that?


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## jerseyreef (Jun 9, 2007)

RAD said:


> It appears that DirecTV has pulled the 1080p content from DoD based on what I saw and someothers have reported.


RAD - Yeah, I caught up with the other thread. Too bad, as I really wanted to see some 1080P content, as my Plasma supports 24fps (Panny TH-50PZ850U).

Mike


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## whereami (Mar 14, 2008)

RAD said:


> It appears that DirecTV has pulled the 1080p content from DoD based on what I saw and someothers have reported.


Bummer...I had a program around 80+ % downloaded and it automatically cancelled and deleted it.


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## L2BENGTREK (May 31, 2006)

Here's what happened to me when I got home....

First, I put in a request for 3 freebies off of the website for download...MI3, Scorpion King, and Scorpion King 2. For some reason, only Scorpion King 2 downloaded. Description says it's the 1080p version. Not too worried about that though since it looks like they've pulled all of the 1080p content now. Maybe they pulled them before I could get them. 

Here's the goofy one.

Went to play it, it went to a black screen and did nothing. After about 30 seconds, I started hitting buttons to get the HR20 to respond. Hit the stop button and it went back to the LIST screen along with the options on the side asking what to do.... start over, resume, delete, etc... I hit resume, the movie came up and played fine! Other kicker is that it registers on my TV as 480p! But it was the most sharp and clear 480p I've ever seen! I tried going back to live TV a couple of times and going back to the movie. Stopping it when the black screen comes up and hitting resume seems to be the only way I can get a movie to play.

So it works.....sort of.

As you can see from my sig, I've got an "older" (bought it in '07 :lol Sony SXRD that was thought to not be able to support the signal. But I got it to confirm the 1080p option by doing the "info button trick". Weird.....


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## schneid (Aug 14, 2007)

studdad said:


> Did not pass. WTF. I have the Sammy 750 (latest LCD model) which supports 1080p/24, a Yamaha 1800 AVR, and the HR22-100. I go HDMI 1.3 to receiver and receiver out to the tv. Receiver just passes all signals. Tried it both with AMP on and Off (AMP is auto motion plus, or the frame interpolation software). Funny thing, is when I click on 1080p, it shows the banner "your tv has passed" or whatever, for about 1/2 a second, then goes to black screen, and then says it does not pass. From reading some of the posts in here, it sounds like the update for this is a mess and needs to be fixed right away. How do I do the "info" thing, and why do people think they are getting 1080p while doing that?


On my Sammy plasma remote there is an "INFO" key. When I press it in TV mode, a window opens that displays "info" about the current signal. It verifies 1080p at 24hz. I am not talking about the info key on the D* remote.


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## schneid (Aug 14, 2007)

Scorpion King
The Happening
Harry Potter

Scheduled Baby Daddy but didn't get it.

Watched The Happening and it was flawless.


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## shedberg (Jan 20, 2007)

Podkayne said:


> Alas, my Panny TH58PZ700U is only 15 months old and although it displays "1080p" I can't find anywhere at what rate. It's probably 1080p/60 because it gagged on the resolution test from my HR20.
> 
> Jeez, I still have three payments left on this TV and it's already obsolete!?
> 
> ...


I have the same TV and would also like to know if this will be an issue.


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## schneid (Aug 14, 2007)

If one is looking for new iron, I'd make sure it was 1080p and 24fps capable and ran at 120hz (120 divides evenly by 24). There is much more to this 24fps than meets the eye. It has been an obscure feature but my discontinued Blu-ray player supports it, my 16 month old plasma TV supports it, and my mid-range AGP card in my old school HTPC support it. And now, D* supports it.

To me the fact that 1080p/24 takes up less than half the bandwidth than 1080i/60 is the key. It's just simple economics.


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## Podkayne (Nov 1, 2007)

shedberg said:


> I have the same TV and would also like to know if this will be an issue.


It looks like we're SOL with DTV on this one.

1080p from a Blu Ray player will work fine on our TVs provided the Blu Ray can be set up to output 1080p/60fps, which I think all do.

I don't think there is a converter


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## rahlquist (Jul 24, 2007)

shedberg said:


> I have the same TV and would also like to know if this will be an issue.


http://www.hdtvsolutions.com/Panasonic-TH-58PZ700U.htm

1080/60 appears to be it.


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## shedberg (Jan 20, 2007)

rahlquist said:


> http://www.hdtvsolutions.com/Panasonic-TH-58PZ700U.htm
> 
> 1080/60 appears to be it.


Thanks for the information. Too bad for me!


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## rsonnens (Nov 8, 2006)

Podkayne said:


> Is there a box that can convert 1080p/24 to 1080p/60 for this TV?.


The box should be the the HR20. There is not really an excuse for not doing this from a 'product' perspective. This is what BlueRay players do when they have 1080p/24 material for 1080p/60 sets.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

rsonnens said:


> The box should be the the HR20. There is not really an excuse for not doing this from a 'product' perspective. This is what BlueRay players do when they have 1080p/24 material for 1080p/60 sets.


The box can't do it because the chip set that D* (and from what I've seen E* also) only supports up to 1080p/24.


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## rsonnens (Nov 8, 2006)

RAD said:


> The box can't do it because the chip set that D* (and from what I've seen E* also) only supports up to 1080p/24.


Notice I said from a product perspective, not because of an engineering limitation.  I knew that from what others have said. However, truth is I do not this to be true statement. It may well be possible to update the chip firmware to do this since we know it can output a 60hz signal for 1080i.


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## rahlquist (Jul 24, 2007)

rsonnens said:


> The box should be the the HR20. There is not really an excuse for not doing this from a 'product' perspective. This is what BlueRay players do when they have 1080p/24 material for 1080p/60 sets.


If you dig through the first look documents you can find the Broadcom chip model # and go look at the docs for yourself (much like I did) you will note that 1080p isnt event mentioned. 1080i is, so somehow they have managed to produce something from chips that until very recently nobody thought they were capable of at least publicly. 1080p24 is also the mode that Dish is using I believe. Doing 60hz isnt just a matter of changing the output clock, the dvr would have to produce data for every clock cycle vs every other clock cycle for 1080i it may not be able to do that at all.

In the end maybe Broadcom and DirecTV and Dish will find a way to do 1080p/60 but I dont think from what I have read that it will be possible with this chipset. However I wouldnt mind them proving me wrong.


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## rsonnens (Nov 8, 2006)

rahlquist said:


> If you dig through the first look documents you can find the Broadcom chip model # and go look at the docs for yourself (much like I did) you will note that 1080p isnt event mentioned. 1080i is, so somehow they have managed to produce something from chips that until very recently nobody thought they were capable of at least publicly. 1080p24 is also the mode that Dish is using I believe. Doing 60hz isnt just a matter of changing the output clock, the dvr would have to produce data for every clock cycle vs every other clock cycle for 1080i it may not be able to do that at all.
> 
> In the end maybe Broadcom and DirecTV and Dish will find a way to do 1080p/60 but I dont think from what I have read that it will be possible with this chipset. However I wouldnt mind them proving me wrong.


Only Broadcom could answer the question, and you would likely not find the answer in docs. But if they have a framebuffer/s that is large enough, which they must if the support 1080p/24 and they support 60hz (which is what is used for all other formats) then I suspect the raw hardware can support this. ll that would ned to be done is a 3:3:2 pulldown from the data stream, which is not a complex operation, and would mean that thru most of the system they won't be busing any more data.

However, the only reason for this would be to make people feel better because they think they need to select 1080p--and to avoid support cases. Fact is that their sets likely will do better de-interlacing. Also DTV could also help more by clearly saying that 1080p is actually 1080p/24 which the UI does not say.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

rsonnens said:


> Only Broadcom could answer the question, and you would likely not find the answer in docs. But if they have a framebuffer/s that is large enough, which they must if the support 1080p/24 and they support 60hz (which is what is used for all other formats) then I suspect the raw hardware can support this. ll that would ned to be done is a 3:3:2 pulldown from the data stream, which is not a complex operation, and would mean that thru most of the system they won't be busing any more data.
> 
> However, the only reason for this would be to make people feel better because they think they need to select 1080p--and to avoid support cases. Fact is that their sets likely will do better de-interlacing. Also DTV could also help more by clearly saying that 1080p is actually 1080p/24 which the UI does not say.


Don't know if this is what your are looking for....

HR21 - Broadcom BCM7401

From the BCM7401 pdf file
"HDMI 1.1/DVI 1.0 Mac and PHY with HDCP 1.1"
"481i/480p/576i/576p/720p/1080i/1080p 24/30 output formats"

http://www.broadcom.com/collateral/pb/7401-PB04-R.pdf

HR20 - Broadcom BCM7411

http://www.broadcom.com/collateral/pb/7411-PB07-R.pdf

Mike


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## rsonnens (Nov 8, 2006)

MicroBeta said:


> Don't know if this is what your are looking for....
> 
> HR21 - Broadcom BCM7401
> 
> ...


Thanks.

The BCM7411 doc does not say anything about 1080p support but clearly it supports 1080p/24 so it may support 1080p/60, or may with new firmware. Again, only Broadcom could answer that. I was just saying that it seems likely that it could.

It is also possible that it is an artificial limitation allowing Broadcom to have a broader range of chips some with lower price points that differ only in firmware. This is a common practice amongst chip vendors. I am not saying this is true in this case, only that it is possible.


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## p010ne (Aug 19, 2006)

Miscellaneous options lists support for: 720p 1080i 1080p/24 1080p/28 1080p/30 1080p/50 1080p/60 and the 1080P Bucket List I had downloaded from VOD 1080p sometime ago plays just fine with the two blue lights lit!!


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## toneman (Oct 23, 2007)

rahlquist said:


> Not if the one that fails to work is following spec and the other is not.
> 
> The PS3 is simply handshaking and saying, hi take this input. (picture a kid holding his hands over his/her ears going NANANANNA I caaant hear youuu)
> 
> ...


Exactly; it is up to the display to send the proper EDID info (in this case, 1080p/24) to the source. Sure it would be nice if D* would implement a "force" option but they are not "required" to do so under HDMI specifications, as far as passing EDID info is concerned. If your display can't/won't properly tell the HR2x as to whether or not it (the display) supports 1080p/24...how is that necessarily the fault of the HR2x?


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## toneman (Oct 23, 2007)

Podkayne said:


> Is there a box that can convert 1080p/24 to 1080p/60 for this TV?


Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of wanting to watch movies in 1080p/24 to begin with--namely, to watch them at 24 frames/second? You might as well watch the non-1080p/24 version instead...

Edit--I didn't take into account the bandwidth difference between 1080p/24 and 1080p/60, so now understand why there would be a want/need to have the HR2x internally convert 1080p/24 to1080p/60 for output to a display that doesn't support 1080p/24.


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## DarinC (Aug 31, 2004)

schneid said:


> To me the fact that 1080p/24 takes up less than half the bandwidth than 1080i/60 is the key. It's just simple economics.


If 1080p/24 DID take up less than half the bandwdith of of 1080i, that indeed would be a big deal. But I believe it tends to closer to 10-15%.


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## shedberg (Jan 20, 2007)

Podkayne said:


> It looks like we're SOL with DTV on this one.
> 
> 1080p from a Blu Ray player will work fine on our TVs provided the Blu Ray can be set up to output 1080p/60fps, which I think all do.
> 
> I don't think there is a converter


Well, I saw a thread this morning that VOD had some 1080p content and downloaded it. I "tricked" my box and succsessfully set it to 1080p. When I went to view the content, both the 720 and 1080 lights lit up - meaning 1080p content. However, the film only displayed on part of my TV and had a bit of stutter. I messed with some settings to no avail. 1080i is the best we will get on this TV. If you figure something out that ends up working, let me know!


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## rahlquist (Jul 24, 2007)

shedberg said:


> Well, I saw a thread this morning that VOD had some 1080p content and downloaded it. I "tricked" my box and succsessfully set it to 1080p. When I went to view the content, both the 720 and 1080 lights lit up - meaning 1080p content. However, the film only displayed on part of my TV and had a bit of stutter. I messed with some settings to no avail. 1080i is the best we will get on this TV. If you figure something out that ends up working, let me know!


If you have another hdmi cable try it. Also consider checking with your TV set manuf for updated firmware and any tips they may have. Some have had to disable certain cinematic display modes to get it to work.


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## dennisj00 (Sep 27, 2007)

shedberg said:


> Well, I saw a thread this morning that VOD had some 1080p content and downloaded it. I "tricked" my box and succsessfully set it to 1080p. When I went to view the content, both the 720 and 1080 lights lit up - meaning 1080p content. However, the film only displayed on part of my TV and had a bit of stutter. I messed with some settings to no avail. 1080i is the best we will get on this TV. If you figure something out that ends up working, let me know!


I would also list the TV make and model - and any AV receiver you're going through.


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## shedberg (Jan 20, 2007)

dennisj00 said:


> I would also list the TV make and model - and any AV receiver you're going through.


Sorry, I am using a Panasonic Viera TH-50PZ700U HDMI from H20-700 direct to the TV and audio to Onkyo receiver using digital audio cable.


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## shedberg (Jan 20, 2007)

rahlquist said:


> If you have another hdmi cable try it. Also consider checking with your TV set manuf for updated firmware and any tips they may have. Some have had to disable certain cinematic display modes to get it to work.


I have checked over at avsforum and unfortunately, it sounds like a no go.


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## Podkayne (Nov 1, 2007)

shedberg said:


> I have checked over at avsforum and unfortunately, it sounds like a no go.


Indeed. I don't believe a "firmware" upgrade can make a TV display 24 Hz signals when it is inherently a 60 Hz set, a significant hardware limitation. Nevertheless, I am not too upset by this, since the TV is otherwise excellent.

I haven't done much downloading by VOD except some standard definition stuff, but it would be nice to be able to take advantage of the 1080p capability. My Oppo 981H upgrades standard def DVDs nicely to 1080p, and I'm looking forward to adding a Blu Ray player soon.


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## rahlquist (Jul 24, 2007)

Podkayne said:


> Indeed. I don't believe a "firmware" upgrade can make a TV display 24 Hz signals when it is inherently a 60 Hz set, a significant hardware limitation. Nevertheless, I am not too upset by this, since the TV is otherwise excellent.


Never hurts to try. 1 year ago everyone around here said the HRx series would never do 1080p because it wasnt hardware capable of it.


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## Rugged (Sep 16, 2006)

So has any new content been added? I have searched online and via remote and no 1080p content appears.

my tv is compliant and passed the test.. its a Samsung 650A


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## shedberg (Jan 20, 2007)

rahlquist said:


> Never hurts to try. 1 year ago everyone around here said the HRx series would never do 1080p because it wasnt hardware capable of it.


I checked with Panasonic today and there are no plans for any upgrades for this set - other than buy a newer model :grin:


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## shedberg (Jan 20, 2007)

Rugged said:


> So has any new content been added? I have searched online and via remote and no 1080p content appears.
> 
> my tv is compliant and passed the test.. its a Samsung 650A


My understanding is that some of the Showtime HD VODs are at 1080p/24. The movie Premonition and the show Californication 18 when downloaded were in 1080p. The 1080p icons were not used though.


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## Wildcat_1 (Oct 7, 2006)

Okay, this is driving me crazy, please please help !!!

I have a Panasonic 58" 800u Plasma that is 1080p 24/60 compatible. I have an HR20-700 that allows me to check the 1080p checkbox, it then shifts the screen to kind of a weird zoomed in view, I click info and then it takes me to the picture that is now squeezed to half the screen but states 1080p is available and that you cannot access this mode with the format key. Now, no matter what I try and do (can't search for 1080p, cannot force a download of 1080p content from TV explorer on drirecTV website) I cannot get it into 1080p.

What am I doing wrong ???

Thanks so much

WC


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## jonny4 (Jan 6, 2007)

why didn't my hr21-100 update but both my hr20's did?


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

jonny4 said:


> why didn't my hr21-100 update but both my hr20's did?


what is your HR21-100 on now? iirc there was no nr pushed for this model lately.


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## jonny4 (Jan 6, 2007)

David MacLeod said:


> what is your HR21-100 on now? iirc there was no nr pushed for this model lately.


not sure which one it was on but it does not have the 1080p stuff and i thought the 1080p stuff was added last week.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

OK, I think this thread got bumped accidentally. I'm closing it to avoid further bumps.


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