# Dish cancelling my account?



## wyy183 (Sep 20, 2012)

This is my first post - have been reading forums for the past few days, and figure if I'm gonna post, I might as well make it count! It is great to see responses to others!

A. Can't find any posts where Dish has cancelled someone else's account. They are cancelling mine, for reasons that I will get to later. My questions:
1. My account was renewed for 24-months in July. Would I be responsible for ETF's if they are cancelling it?
2. What about return shipping of my 922 receiver?
3. What about EHD events that I have?

B. Reasons they have told me they are cancelling:
1. They cannot meet my expectations. (I expect the receiver to actually work.)
2. They say that I am using my equipment outside of the design specifications:
a. using EHD
b. using OTA
c. recording for more than 2 1/2 - 3 hours per day
d. that the receiver MUST be turned off anytime that I'm not actively using it so that it can "rest." If I don't turn it off each day, that causes my problems.


My issues with 722/722K receivers:
- Had Dish for 3 years with no issues.
- about a year ago, started having an issue with 722. When I would use search function, receiver would, on occassion, lock and reboot. Didn't matter if I had EHD connected, if something was recording, etc. 
- 2nd tuner quit functioning. Unit would only record one event at a time. If events overlapped, then it would start recording the next event when the previous one ended. At the first of the month, with new movies, I may record 3-4 movies - only getting the end of each. (This happened with three different receivers, 722 and 722K.)
- "002" message: Partial signal loss. Would get this on a clear day, with no obstructions, and signal levels on sats 110, 119, 129 all greater than 55. Clear message (press DVR button, then live TV) and it would return in a few seconds or minutes.

After numerous receivers and tech visits, they decided that maybe if I went to another receiver, it might be better. Since I do OTA, a 922 was recommended.

Issues with 922 receiver:
- first one I heard a "pop" from it, and it had died. Probably a thermister as I was able to blow a fan in the side of it to get it to stay up long enough to dump DVR events to EHD.
- next one, three days in a row, failed to start recording an event each day. Different events, different channels.
- next one didn't record an event the next day. Plus, an event that it did record had an error message and couldn't be played.
- next one had error message on DVR event and couldn't be played.
- and so did the next one... Four events in one day with errors and couldn't be played.
(I asked if there was possibly a batch with bad hard drives, since they all came from local office?)

- then I got phone call telling me they were cancelling my service.


Every Dish tech who has been here has said that I'm not doing anything wrong, (I usually show them a few shortcuts they weren't aware of - I had one tech call me when he had an issue with another customer!) and there is no way that I should be having any of these issues. We've played with ground wires, LNB's, RG-6, moved receiver to other rooms. They've seen the issues, but cannot explain the problems. What is really weird is that I went over three months with NO issues (but, I quit using the search function and did my searching on Zap-2-it.)


My biggest concern is what I have recorded on EHD's. I've been recording and saving to EHD's for four years...


Thoughts?


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## gokartergo (Jul 8, 2011)

That does not make any sense. I had a 922 with OTA and a EHD. I had it for two years and never had a problem. I recorded a lot with it has well.. I did not use search that much thou.. Have you taken the OTA module out and did you use it in all of them?? Has it been the same OTA module? I would replace that.. Or take it out and try using the DVR and see if it still does it.. Has for the EHD the only thing you can do is record the stuff to DVDS. If Dish is cancelling your account.. They can not hold you to the ETF..


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## wyy183 (Sep 20, 2012)

gokartergo said:


> That does not make any sense.


None of this makes much sense to me. All of my local techs, and their manager, have all been here and scratched their heads over this.



gokartergo said:


> I had a 922 with OTA and a EHD. I had it for two years and never had a problem. I recorded a lot with it has well.. I did not use search that much thou.. Have you taken the OTA module out and did you use it in all of them?? Has it been the same OTA module?


When all of this started with the search issue, I had a 722, which had the OTA built-in to the receiver. I had this receiver for several years. At some point, I was swapped to a 722K, which does not come with OTA built-in. Before the module arrived for it, 2nd tuner quit working. It was replaced with a regular 722, which had "002" messages popping up. That was replaced by another 722K, and the module was installed in it. This same module was transferred to the 922s.



gokartergo said:


> I would replace that.. Or take it out and try using the DVR and see if it still does it.. Has for the EHD the only thing you can do is record the stuff to DVDS. If Dish is cancelling your account.. They can not hold you to the ETF..


The errors on the DVR are: "A problem was encountered when opening the files for this DVR event. Please note the Error Code: 04". Another one has an error code of 05. This error is in the description area for the event - where it would normally show the details of the movie, sporting event, or whatever. This error is on event that have been recorded OTA (NFL game,) ch. 132 (TCM,) one of my locals, and on an event that I was moving from one EHD to another EHD. When this happens (I've actually watched part of these, stopped it, gone back to finish watching later - only to have it give this error. When checking the file size (select event, choose edit) and it shows 0.011 GB. That was for a 3 1/2 hour NFL game.

I also have a show from FOOD network that has almost no file size, and it quits within a second of starting it - it shows EFAM during that short time. There is a show from EFAM which does nothing - like the events are cross-linked.

I have not tried taking the OTA module out.

One interesting fact - the issues that I had with the 722(K)'s are completely different than the issues that I have had with the 922's.

Having 4 years of events recorded to EHD's, there is no way that I could get even a small percentage of these transferred to DVD prior to cancellation. I guess that is my biggest "beef" - local events that I have recorded, things like Olympics, and other one-off things - I will have no way to replay them. I have a 1TB drive with the past two Olympic events on it. Roughly 500 hours of HD. (Have "friends" who competed.)

The reason that I do OTA is that I live between two markets. My locals come from one, and I am "from" the other. I follow sporting events, and performing arts that are broadcast OTA and not in my local channels.


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

Have you noticed that you are having to replace light bulbs a little more often?


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## wyy183 (Sep 20, 2012)

Jhon69 said:


> Have you noticed that you are having to replace light bulbs a little more often?


:lol: light bulbs are working fine!


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## RasputinAXP (Jan 23, 2008)

It's an honest question. This is very, very uncommon behavior.


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

wyy183 said:


> :lol: light bulbs are working fine!


There's a reason for my question,if you do your having surge issues inside your home and any replacement receiver will not work for very long,just maybe that's the reason DISH just said"Cancel the account".

I wish you the best in finding out why your receivers(With whatever company) are going bad.Good Luck!


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## pmjones (Aug 3, 2012)

RasputinAXP said:


> It's an honest question. This is very, very uncommon behavior.


Haunted house?

Sorry ~ that's my best guess . . .


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## wyy183 (Sep 20, 2012)

RasputinAXP said:


> It's an honest question. This is very, very uncommon behavior.


OK - my house was new construction when purchased 4 1/2 years ago. New sub-division. I purchased the first house in this sub-division. Now there are about 40 houses here. At least 8 others in my neighborhood have Dish, including my next-door neighbor.

House has RG-6 installed throughout.

A.C. power has been checked - multiple times. It is normally around 121 volts.

All signals check out fine: power, sat lines, RG-6.

I've had no issues with any other electronics. Computers, TV's, tread mill, light bulbs, etc. With "candle-style" bulbs in ceiling fans, I do replace one bulb every 2-3 months. But, considering that I have six of these four-light fixtures, that isn't out of the ordinary. I've replaced one CFL in the past four years.

Like I stated in the beginning, the first three years - I didn't have any issues.

One other note - have tried connecting directly to wall, connection to a single-outlet surge-protector (receiver only,) and connecting all equipment to a surge protector strip (receiver, TV, EHD power supply, DVD player.) At this moment, I have a 6-outlet surge protector connected to the wall outlet. I have TV, receiver, and EHD power supply connected. Nothing else.

Another note - when I had files that cross-linked, and one with an error, I did not have EHD or EHD power supply connected.


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## boba (May 23, 2003)

Time to switch to D* and see if their receivers are more stable in your house.


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## wyy183 (Sep 20, 2012)

pmjones said:


> Haunted house?
> 
> Sorry ~ that's my best guess . . .


I do have two cats; however, neither of them are black!


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## wyy183 (Sep 20, 2012)

boba said:


> Time to switch to D* and see if their receivers are more stable in your house.


It appears that is about my only choice, as I need to record OTA.

I issue I have with that is that D* doesn't have the same EHD setup:
- uses eSATA connection, and disables internal HD (IHD)
- cannot transfer from IHD to EHD
- all settings (timers, EPG, etc.) are stored on HD - connect a new drive, and you have to start over with EPG download (24-48 hours on D*) and reset all new timers.
- if you swap a receiver for some reason, you lose your EHD recordings as they are tied to the receiver, not the account.

*AND* I will lose all my current EHD recordings.


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## Inkosaurus (Jul 29, 2011)

> OK - my house was new construction when purchased 4 1/2 years ago. New sub-division


You must not be recording very many Holmes on Homes episodes :lol:


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## boba (May 23, 2003)

wyy183 said:


> It appears that is about my only choice, as I need to record OTA.
> 
> I issue I have with that is that D* doesn't have the same EHD setup:
> - uses eSATA connection, and disables internal HD (IHD)
> ...


You've already lost the *EHD RECORDINGS* when the account is cancelled they are gone.
The technology differences are what they are but again you don't have much choice.


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## wyy183 (Sep 20, 2012)

boba said:


> You've already lost the *EHD RECORDINGS* when the account is cancelled they are gone.
> The technology differences are what they are but again you don't have much choice.


I guess. What bothers me is that I invested (EHD's and time) in the service and I feel like I'm having the rug pulled out from under me because they are having issues with equipment.

At their suggestion, I went from 722K to 922. In 34 days, I had 5 different 922's. The last 3 had events on the DVR which had errors. That sounds like an issue with a batch of 922's?

Then there is the thing where ERT reps were going to "check on things and call me back." Four different times I was told that. It never happened. ERT supervisor was going to send new receiver. It never shipped. Another time, I had appointment for tech to come out (tech lives less than 5 minutes from me.) He called to tell me when he would be here. But, before he got here, ERT cancelled appointment.

When they started rattling off things like "if you record more than 2 1/2 to 3 hours a day, you will start seeing errors..." and "if you didn't turn the receiver off last night, you will get errors." It just started sounding like they were trying to place the blame on me for their equipment not working correctly. (not that that would ever happen in our world today!)

I asked to go back to 722K, and was told that could not happen.

*** End of rant ***


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Have you had an electrician check your house? Have you tried better power supplies, like uninterrupted ones?


Edit - never mind, I reread your posts.


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## sregener (Apr 17, 2012)

sigma1914 said:


> Have you tried better power supplies, like uninterrupted ones?


This would actually be my best guess, based on the very erratic (and abnormal) behavior. Back in the day, I used to maintain servers that ran OS/2, and it was particularly finicky about power drops. Not the kind of thing you'd see in the lights, and all the PCs stayed up, including the server. But a crew was working on a building nearby, and the power would flicker ever so slightly every day or so as they worked, and that darn server would bring up an error message and require a reboot. When the construction ended, the flickers ended, and so did the errors. All the Windows servers ran just fine through the flickers, on the exact same hardware.

Note that cheap uninterruptible power supplies (APC-branded ones, for instance) are what are known as "standby" devices - they will switch over to battery power when a power failure occurs, but there is that momentary drop in voltage when the swap takes place. You need an "active" power supply, which runs off the battery constantly, recharging it while the power line is active, or at least a line-interactive one.

Maybe you don't want to invest $200+ in a solution that might solve the problem. Maybe you've had it with Dish (as it sounds like they've had it with you.) But the reality is that you have a reproducible problem that is not the norm for others with your hardware setup.

One other possibility that comes to mind: is your antenna grounded to the same ground as the rest of the house? If it isn't, do you have the grounds properly bonded using thick wire?


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## tsmacro (Apr 28, 2005)

Are the receivers in a open well-ventilated area? Not stacked with other electronics on top of them, not in an enclosed cabinet or anything like that? Just taking a shot in the dark here that maybe there's an overheating problem?


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## wyy183 (Sep 20, 2012)

sregener said:


> This would actually be my best guess, based on the very erratic (and abnormal) behavior. Back in the day, I used to maintain servers that ran OS/2, and it was particularly finicky about power drops. Not the kind of thing you'd see in the lights, and all the PCs stayed up, including the server. But a crew was working on a building nearby, and the power would flicker ever so slightly every day or so as they worked, and that darn server would bring up an error message and require a reboot. When the construction ended, the flickers ended, and so did the errors. All the Windows servers ran just fine through the flickers, on the exact same hardware.
> 
> Note that cheap uninterruptible power supplies (APC-branded ones, for instance) are what are known as "standby" devices - they will switch over to battery power when a power failure occurs, but there is that momentary drop in voltage when the swap takes place. You need an "active" power supply, which runs off the battery constantly, recharging it while the power line is active, or at least a line-interactive one.
> 
> ...


OS/2 - wow, there's a blast from the past!

I've thought about an active power supply system. It just seems that would be something that more people would be concerned with, as well...

I have two inside, powered antennas in an upstairs "bonus room." One on each end. They each have RG-59 supplied with them (proprietary connector on one of them.) I combine them to a single RG-6, that I feed through my attic and down through a closet next to my receiver. Behind my receiver, I split the signal and run to TV and 922, with RG-6. The splitters are not grounded in any way. Prior to this setup (if you read everything then you know that we've tried multiple rooms - I previously had my receiver in this "bonus room" for three years with no issues.)


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## wyy183 (Sep 20, 2012)

tsmacro said:


> Are the receivers in a open well-ventilated area? Not stacked with other electronics on top of them, not in an enclosed cabinet or anything like that? Just taking a shot in the dark here that maybe there's an overheating problem?


I have an "open" TV stand with a 55" Vizio on the top shelf, 922 on middle shelf with DVD player on top of it (it sits over 1/2" above the top of the 922,) I have EHD's on the bottom shelf. There is an A/C vent approximately 4 feet away from the 922, in the current room.

The highest internal HD temp that I have seen is 125. The lowest is 122. This is for all of the 922's.

Field service manager actually came out and took pictures to send to someone to show that there wasn't any issues with ventilation.


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

I went through 10 921 DVR's and one 942 before finally getting a stable unit: a 622. When the 622 arrived I purchased a UPS (battery backup/surge protector). That seemed to alleviate the short lifespan the previous models had.

You do have to put your DVR (any DVR) on standby from time to time, otherwise it can't update the software. It's not to "rest" the unit!

Have you tried appealing your case to a higher level? Maybe one of the DIRT team menders could look into your case.


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## wyy183 (Sep 20, 2012)

Looks like I'm going to go to Best Buy and pick up a Hauppage this evening, and start video dumping...

Wonder how long it will take for ~20TB?


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## jdskycaster (Sep 1, 2008)

All 20TB? 2.3 years or so.


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## DoyleS (Oct 21, 2002)

Not that it is a temperature issue but since my equipment sits in an equipment rack in a closet, I have one of those USB fans plugged into the USB port on my 722 and it runs constantly into the vent side of the 722.


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

I still don't understand what any of this has to do with them giving you the boot.


Unless you've been , ummm, 'troublesome' on the phone.


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## DoyleS (Oct 21, 2002)

After rereading the posts, it sure sounds like a combination of Firmware updates on the 722s as they were common and problematic last year until a stable update came out. I had that problem with a 622 but now my 722s have been solid. 
It also sounds a lot like temperature issues based on your fan description. I am assuming you have had the service plan through all of this.


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## runner861 (Mar 20, 2010)

wyy183 said:


> OK - my house was new construction when purchased 4 1/2 years ago. New sub-division. I purchased the first house in this sub-division. Now there are about 40 houses here. At least 8 others in my neighborhood have Dish, including my next-door neighbor.
> 
> House has RG-6 installed throughout.
> 
> ...


I would look at construction defects in the house--particularly faulty materials. There was a lot of drywall from China in use around the time that your house was built. Some of it was faulty, containing formaldehyde and other chemicals that would gradually vent out, sometimes causing destruction to equipment, including electrical equipment, plumbing, and wiring, as well as illness to occupants.


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## wyy183 (Sep 20, 2012)

SayWhat? said:


> I still don't understand what any of this has to do with them giving you the boot.
> 
> Unless you've been , ummm, 'troublesome' on the phone.


The only time that I have raised my voice was 
- when my current receiver was.... when my current 922 was installed, then I lefft the next day and was out of town for three days.
- when I returned, I found that there were four events on the DVR that couldn't play due to error or cross-linking (just my words, as the channel that the event showed in the 1-2 seconds available was for the other event,)
- I called and asked what needed to be done.
- I was told that they would check and call me back within 48 hours.
- After 2 1/2 days, I called back to find out what was going on. I was told that there was a problem with my receiver, but they couldn't send me another one as I had two others that hadn't "cleared" yet.
- A couple of days later, after another DVR event with an error, I called back.
- This was a Saturday. I was told that I technician could come see about it on Monday afternoon.
- Monday came. Around 2pm, I realized that no one had called. I logged in to check My Appointments. There was none.
- I called Dish to see what was going on.
- I was told that "you were obviously mistaken about the appointment, because there isn't one scheduled."
- At that point... yes, I raised my voice. But no one seemed to care.
- On Thursday, a "supervisor" with executive resolution team said that he was going to send me another 922. I asked about going back to a 722, and was told that wasn't possible.
- On Monday, I called as this has not been shipped yet.
- The next call I received was that they were going to cancel my account because "Dish cannot provide the service that I deserve."


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## wyy183 (Sep 20, 2012)

DoyleS said:


> ...I am assuming you have had the service plan through all of this.


Yes, I've been paying it for over four years now.


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## wyy183 (Sep 20, 2012)

runner861 said:


> I would look at construction defects in the house--particularly faulty materials. There was a lot of drywall from China in use around the time that your house was built. Some of it was faulty, containing formaldehyde and other chemicals that would gradually vent out, sometimes causing destruction to equipment, including electrical equipment, plumbing, and wiring, as well as illness to occupants.


I have been craving egg rolls lately.

RG-6 was replaced within the past 6 months, from the LNB to the receiver.

While all the receivers have been an "irritation", I didn't get "ill" until I heard that they were going to discontinue my service...


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Random question... IF your house was new construction 4.5 years ago, why was there a need to replace the RG-6 within the last 6 months?

Only the new Hoppers actually require RG-6... RG-59 that is even 10+ years old should be fine for a 922... I know because that's what I had in a previous location before I moved.


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## Inkosaurus (Jul 29, 2011)

> Have you tried appealing your case to a higher level


He has made it clear that hes speaking to ERT agents, which IIRC are higher level then the DIRT agents who post here 



> I still don't understand what any of this has to do with them giving you the boot.
> 
> Unless you've been , ummm, 'troublesome' on the phone.


Dish reserves the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason. That doesnt mean that all involuntarily canceled members have been harassing CSR's (though its usually the case).

If they see that he is constantly calling in and not getting his issue resolved there is 1 last resort to finally "dealing" with the problem.

@Op, I know your house is "new" but with how shady contractors are sometimes that doesnt mean the wiring is top notch. Dish receivers can be finicky if the wiring in a home isnt great or starts getting shorts.

Im almost positive the issue is somewhere in the wiring of your home rather then in the receivers, your issue is not common at all and its far to much of a coincidence to get that many "bad" receivers back to back.


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## gokartergo (Jul 8, 2011)

This is a long shot but.. What type of internet do you have?? I once did a install... Everything was fine.. 3 days later the customer calls me up.. Says the receiver is going crazy. I go in and attempt a check switch.. It wouldn't go through.. Finally on the third try it did.. I go out and follow the line I just put in.. Comcast grounded to the same source I had earlier.. I moved my ground and it was fine.. I know I am grasping at straws...


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## Gloria_Chavez (Aug 11, 2008)

Inkosaurus said:


> Dish reserves the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason. That doesnt mean that all involuntarily canceled members have been harassing CSR's (though its usually the case).


Given the number of service calls, no way the account could be profitable for Dish.

Source of problem? If drywall, why doesn't it affect other electronics. If electrical, why don't PCs reboot?

Wyy183, if you do get D*, please let us know if problem persists.


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

One mouse in the wall, or with access to the coax, can and will eat the shield off the coax causing shorts. So will a 90 degree bend inside the wall during the initial run. Lots of possibilities. Best test, run a new coax outside the house and run it through a door or window temporarily, connect it up, and see if the problems disappear.


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## wyy183 (Sep 20, 2012)

Stewart Vernon said:


> Random question... IF your house was new construction 4.5 years ago, why was there a need to replace the RG-6 within the last 6 months?
> 
> Only the new Hoppers actually require RG-6... RG-59 that is even 10+ years old should be fine for a 922... I know because that's what I had in a previous location before I moved.


RG-6 was replaced because it was an easy replacement, just to confirm that there wasn't a problem with it. (aka - grasping at straws.)


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## wyy183 (Sep 20, 2012)

gokartergo said:


> This is a long shot but.. What type of internet do you have?? I once did a install... Everything was fine.. 3 days later the customer calls me up.. Says the receiver is going crazy. I go in and attempt a check switch.. It wouldn't go through.. Finally on the third try it did.. I go out and follow the line I just put in.. Comcast grounded to the same source I had earlier.. I moved my ground and it was fine.. I know I am grasping at straws...


For internet, I have Comcast "economy". I think it is 1MB, but $14.95/mo. I don't stream anything, just basic stuff. Most of my email I do on my phone...

Internet comes in to the east side of my house, via a separate RG-6. Box is attached to east side of my house. Ground wire runs out of box and is connected to a ground that it shares with an electrical panel there.

E* satellite is on the south side of my house. Splitters, separators, etc., are located about 5' from the dish, in the crawl-space of my house. Access door is right beside the dish which is bolted to lower-brick "foundation" of house. Dish, and all connectors are grounded to a copper water pipe.

They have removed ground, for a while. Redone ground, and wires on a separate trip weeks later.


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## wyy183 (Sep 20, 2012)

Davenlr said:


> One mouse in the wall, or with access to the coax, can and will eat the shield off the coax causing shorts. So will a 90 degree bend inside the wall during the initial run. Lots of possibilities. Best test, run a new coax outside the house and run it through a door or window temporarily, connect it up, and see if the problems disappear.


Understood - see posts #30, and #36.

In addition, moved receiver from my bonus room to my living room.

On another note - all "hardware" where connections go, have been replaced, including the LNB (tech accidentally pulled dish loose from brick with doing that - DOH! Another tech who fixed it said, "he must have tried to stand on it or something!")


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## wyy183 (Sep 20, 2012)

Inkosaurus said:


> He has made it clear that hes speaking to ERT agents, which IIRC are higher level then the DIRT agents who post here
> 
> Dish reserves the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason. That doesnt mean that all involuntarily canceled members have been harassing CSR's (though its usually the case).
> 
> If they see that he is constantly calling in and not getting his issue resolved there is 1 last resort to finally "dealing" with the problem.


When I heard that I was transferred to the ERT, and the first one that I talked to gave me her direct number, I thought that was a good thing.

YMMV - but my experience with the ERT was "there is no problem with the equipment or service - you are using the system outside of the design specifications. It is your fault."

There didn't seem to be anyone who was concerned about the issues. It seemed that there job was to be "No" people. Most CSR's seemed willing to help. No one on the ERT had that attitude, with me. I suppose I was on a "black list" of some kind...

I spoke with multiple people on the ERT. Four of them promised to call me back about issues. None of them did. It was an ERT supervisor who told me that recording to the DVR for more than 2 1/2 - 3 hours a day would cause the errors that I was having. (Maybe he doesn't realize that the DVR is recording the whole time that it is turned on, whether it is "recording" an event or just recording current tuner for "buffer.") Another person on the ERT told me that not turning the receiver off at least once a day, for several hours (overnight recommended,) would cause hard drive errors. Two of the techs who where here both said "That's the first I've heard of that! I (we) never turn mine (ours) off."

I got the impression that the ERT was comprised of people who they couldn't let go for some reason and had to have a place to put them. You know - can't fire them so you promote them.

Any, just my opinion, and my experience.

I've spent most of the past 15 years doing a variety of technical support. I know what it is like on the other end of the line, and know that it isn't an easy thing to do every day. However, when I told someone that I was going to do something (call them back, ship something, etc.) then I am going to do it. I guess it comes down to integrity.

==============================

Hauppauge is up and running. My 2nd movie is finishing now. This will be handy no matter whose service I have in the future.


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

wyy183 said:


> Ground wire runs out of box and is connected to a ground that it shares with an electrical panel there.
> 
> Dish, and all connectors are grounded to a copper water pipe.
> 
> They have removed ground, for a while. Redone ground, and wires on a separate trip weeks later.


You are on the right track. Your DISH system MUST be grounded to the same ground rod as the Electric and Internet, or you are going to create a ground loop. They need to run a ground from the dish to the electric service ground (which I believe is what their installation instructions call for, but I dont have a copy to look at). Anything in your home entertainment system that is interconnected (via video, audio, HDMI, etc) should share the same ground as the electric service. In addition, make sure ALL your home entertainment equipment, power supplies, Dish LNB powered multiswitches, etc, are plugged into the SAME BRANCH circuit if you have a 220V house feed. All on L1, or all on L2, but not half on 1, half on 2. Voltage variations between L1 and L2 can cause issues rarely, but you are hunting a ghost here.


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## runner861 (Mar 20, 2010)

I know it is a big task, but I would recommend opening up the walls and looking at conditions inside where the wiring is running. You might be surprised at what you find. Also open up your breaker box and see what things look like where the switches are seated. However, unless you are a licensed contractor and electrician, I strongly recommend that you hire someone to do this in your presence. I don't want to see anyone injured. Electricity is dangerous.


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## DoyleS (Oct 21, 2002)

I am expecting someone to suggest you call Ghostbusters here shortly. 
It sounds like you have pretty well eliminated the Coax as a problem especially since you have had some of it replaced. 
Electrical power problems can be a bit tricky. The first one I would check would be to get one of those simple 3 prong plug checkers that makes sure that your outlets are properly wired. It will show a missing ground or reversed Hot and Neutral lines. If there was a contractor problem in terms of flaky wiring this might show it. To check the actual outlet, you would need a voltmeter to plug into one set of the Duplex outlets and a Hair Dryer for the other side. Turn the hair dryer on and see if the voltage at the outlet drops by more than a volt or 2. If it doesn't drop then you know that you have solid connections to the panel and street for that path. Any resistive connections would cause the voltage to drop more than that. As stated by others the probability of that many consecutive bad units is near impossible. Kind of like the chances of winning the lottery. That then implies that something in your system is causing these units to fail. I don't buy the chemical or bad sheetrock argument as that would take some time to cause the level of corrosion that would cause a failure. The more likely item is some sort of transient on one of the lines coming into the receiver. Power, Coax, Internet or the output lines going to a TV, flat panel etc. You can disconnect the Internet and the system will still run. Checking the output would require connecting to a different output device. I would think that transients on your power lines would have also damaged other equipment. 
At this point it looks like you are headed for a change of service. Do keep us informed of the way things work out as this has been an interesting situation.


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## wyy183 (Sep 20, 2012)

Davenlr said:


> You are on the right track. Your DISH system MUST be grounded to the same ground rod as the Electric and Internet, or you are going to create a ground loop. They need to run a ground from the dish to the electric service ground (which I believe is what their installation instructions call for, but I dont have a copy to look at). Anything in your home entertainment system that is interconnected (via video, audio, HDMI, etc) should share the same ground as the electric service. In addition, make sure ALL your home entertainment equipment, power supplies, Dish LNB powered multiswitches, etc, are plugged into the SAME BRANCH circuit if you have a 220V house feed. All on L1, or all on L2, but not half on 1, half on 2. Voltage variations between L1 and L2 can cause issues rarely, but you are hunting a ghost here.


This makes perfect sense to me, and I'm most certainly familiar with L1, L2 as I have done X-10 devices at different times.

922, TV, DVD, EHD connections are on the same outlet.


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## wyy183 (Sep 20, 2012)

runner861 said:


> I know it is a big task, but I would recommend opening up the walls and looking at conditions inside where the wiring is running. You might be surprised at what you find. Also open up your breaker box and see what things look like where the switches are seated. However, unless you are a licensed contractor and electrician, I strongly recommend that you hire someone to do this in your presence. I don't want to see anyone injured. Electricity is dangerous.


Thanks for the warning; however, I've spent my share of time inside breaker boxes. I've flipped my share of Main's in my life (probably more than 100.)

My house actually has two full-size (20+ slot) breaker boxes. One in my garage that services my kitchen, kitchen appliances, garage, hot water heater, bonus room, bonus room HVAC unit, etc. The other one is the "main" and is on the opposite end of the house, which does living room, 3 BR's, 2 baths, laundry, and heat pump.


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## DoyleS (Oct 21, 2002)

Based on your comments, you are pretty familiar with electrical systems. If you have a scope, you might try looking at any line transients generated when either your HVAC or Heat Pump turn on. They are probably the biggest draws and both with large motors could be introducing some good sized transients on the line.


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## wyy183 (Sep 20, 2012)

DoyleS said:


> I am expecting someone to suggest you call Ghostbusters here shortly.


I did: 1-800-433-DISH 



DoyleS said:


> It sounds like you have pretty well eliminated the Coax as a problem especially since you have had some of it replaced.


Yep.



DoyleS said:


> Electrical power problems can be a bit tricky. The first one I would check would be to get one of those simple 3 prong plug checkers that makes sure that your outlets are properly wired. It will show a missing ground or reversed Hot and Neutral lines. If there was a contractor problem in terms of flaky wiring this might show it. To check the actual outlet, you would need a voltmeter to plug into one set of the Duplex outlets and a Hair Dryer for the other side. Turn the hair dryer on and see if the voltage at the outlet drops by more than a volt or 2. If it doesn't drop then you know that you have solid connections to the panel and street for that path. Any resistive connections would cause the voltage to drop more than that. As stated by others the probability of that many consecutive bad units is near impossible. Kind of like the chances of winning the lottery. That then implies that something in your system is causing these units to fail. I don't buy the chemical or bad sheetrock argument as that would take some time to cause the level of corrosion that would cause a failure. The more likely item is some sort of transient on one of the lines coming into the receiver. Power, Coax, Internet or the output lines going to a TV, flat panel etc. You can disconnect the Internet and the system will still run. Checking the output would require connecting to a different output device. I would think that transients on your power lines would have also damaged other equipment.


Field service manager brought a plug-in tester. Other techs have, as well. Every outlet they have checked has been wired fine.

Right - I've had zero problems with any electronics: TV's, desktop computer (on a different circuit or the same circuit.)

Haven't done the hairdryer test, but I might try that later, just for the fun of it.



DoyleS said:


> At this point it looks like you are headed for a change of service. Do keep us informed of the way things work out as this has been an interesting situation.


I've been trying to get D* setup, but my bank hosed up my account. They lost my address in a "glitch" they had. It also separated my debit card from my account. These disabled my account. Should be fixed by Monday.

Maybe I need to write a book? Play the lottery like you said?


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## wyy183 (Sep 20, 2012)

DoyleS said:


> Based on your comments, you are pretty familiar with electrical systems. If you have a scope, you might try looking at any line transients generated when either your HVAC or Heat Pump turn on. They are probably the biggest draws and both with large motors could be introducing some good sized transients on the line.


I have a stethoscope, but I think the patient is already dead! No pulse...


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## DoyleS (Oct 21, 2002)

I have to say, your humor through this situation is admirable.


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## boba (May 23, 2003)

Has DISH given a date when service will be terminated?


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## Inkosaurus (Jul 29, 2011)

> There didn't seem to be anyone who was concerned about the issues. It seemed that there job was to be "No" people. Most CSR's seemed willing to help. No one on the ERT had that attitude, with me. I suppose I was on a "black list" of some kind...


The big difference here is the CSR's calls get randomly recorded 
Once you go above the CSR level (be it frontline, loyalty or advanced tech/Dr. Dish) and speak to supervisor+ level agents you always run the chance of running into someone whos been there long enough to know there not getting recorded. 
When I worked there, I used to hear a loyalty supervisor drop F-Bombs to customers if they agitated her enough lol.

So I doubt you were on a "black list" Im pretty sure they just didnt care.
About there "suggestions", the recording thing is them grasping at straws to make up an excuse to get you off there call.

The "leaving it off" thing while a bit exaggerated actually has basis in truth. It is definitely recommended to atleast power down your receiver every now and again. Though for a minimum of 1 minute (for a full power down). Anything beyond that is over kill and makes no difference unless your wanting to let it cool off.
Theres a reason why front line CSR's always ask if you have powered it down recently, and thats because habitual powering down of Receivers can extend there lifetime greatly.



> I got the impression that the ERT was comprised of people who they couldn't let go for some reason and had to have a place to put them. You know - can't fire them so you promote them.


:lol: If only lol. ERT is generally filled with agents who have been there atleast a year and were probably either supervisors or CSS (basically supervisors without teams under them).
They *can* be really helpful but like you have experienced there are always going to be people there who dont care and that department makes it really easy for them not to.


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## wyy183 (Sep 20, 2012)

boba said:


> Has DISH given a date when service will be terminated?


According to the letter that I received, the date has passed...

I guess they haven't been able to send a "hit" to it to shut it down yet. 

They are supposed to send box(es) for return. No box(es) have arrived yet.

According to My Account info on-line, I'm still active.

I'm dumping stuff from EHD's thru HD PVR to "reclaimed" EHD connected to computer, as fast as I can.


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## wyy183 (Sep 20, 2012)

DoyleS said:


> I have to say, your humor through this situation is admirable.


When it reaches a certain point, you have to laugh. This is one of the dumbest things I've seen in my life - for a variety of reasons.


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## wyy183 (Sep 20, 2012)

Inkosaurus said:


> So I doubt you were on a "black list" Im pretty sure they just didnt care.


There was a young tech here back in February. He added in his call notes something like "customer is using equipment in a manner which it is not designed." This wasn't even a Dish person, but a dealer...



Inkosaurus said:


> The "leaving it off" thing while a bit exaggerated actually has basis in truth. It is definitely recommended to atleast power down your receiver every now and again. Though for a minimum of 1 minute (for a full power down). Anything beyond that is over kill and makes no difference unless your wanting to let it cool off.
> Theres a reason why front line CSR's always ask if you have powered it down recently, and thats because habitual powering down of Receivers can extend there lifetime greatly.


I always have the inactivity time set at 4 hours for standby. Occasionally, I have had something recording where it didn't do its 3:00am shutdown. Maybe even two days in a row a couple of times. It still goes into standby. I was told that going into standby wasn't the same as turning it off. I had 722 for nearly 4 years. The only time it was turned off was when I was moving the receiver for some reason (new TV stand, for example.)

Some comedy - with the third 922, I had turned it off when I went to be around Midnight. Update was scheduled for 3:00am. I had a movie scheduled to record from 5:00am - 7:00am. Later, there was a CMT show scheduled to record from 10:00am - 12:30pm. I don't always fire up my TV when I get up. I turned it on around 10:30am. Then I noticed that the CMT event wasn't recording. The timer had started, but the recording hadn't. While looking around, I noticed the movie was showing 5 instances. Yes, the receiver had rebooted five times during the movie. Interestingly enough, the movie was "Going Ape!"

ERT rep told me that my receiver would not reboot that many times, even though it showed STB reboot (Set Top Box) in the Daily Schedule for the movie. He said that the receiver wouldn't do that, and that I was looking at something wrong AND I had, obviously, not turned the receiver off as I thought that I had.

I guess what amazes me, is the they assume that I'm totally clueless. I've been in the IT world for over 30 years. I've worked in CSR role. I've worked in support for Fortune 500 companies. I've done system admin work for over 15 years. I've done a variety of programming. I can even set the time on most VCR's!


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

I have 4 receivers and all are allowed to do their nightly reboot and download, then I have them wake up with an auto-tune timer and they are on the other 23 hours a day.

A lot of what you have been told is pure D BS., many people record 10+ hours a day with no repercussions.

It sounds like they were exasperated with your situation and did not know what to to, so they seized on the comment of an ignoramous and used it to terminate your account.

I hope you have better luck at DirecTV and I appreciate your attitude in this circumstance, I have seen other posters here go ballistic over 5% of what you've put up with.


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## wyy183 (Sep 20, 2012)

I have the HD PVR. I'm dumping what I can. I've gone thru and prioritized the top 100 recordings that I have, that I want to capture.

My PC is close to 10 years old. I've updated the RAM, HD, and have a dual-layer DVD burner. I'm trying to burn a test DVD at this time. Processor is running 100% with a single-session Firefox being the only other thing running. So for it has been running for about 2 hours, and is about 30% done. Maybe by morning? PC has a single-cord 2 GHz processor. I also killed all non-essential processes and halted anti-virus prior to this test. Just want to make sure that it actually works the way it is supposed to. I can live with it taking a day to create a DVD, if necessary (just do one a day for the next 14 years?) But, I want to have the things that I enjoy, and that won't be repeated - saved. If receiver is still active, I will start with some of my favorite movies and TV-series. Once I have things on EHD on PC, then I can burn DVD's as I desire.

Capturing doesn't seem to be an issue, CPU runs less than 10%. The process of creating a standard DVD from a HD capture seems to be working the hampsters fairly hard.

This might be a good excuse for me to get a more up-to-date computer?


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## wyy183 (Sep 20, 2012)

Jim5506 said:


> ...A lot of what you have been told is pure D BS., many people record 10+ hours a day with no repercussions.
> 
> It sounds like they were exasperated with your situation and did not know what to to, so they seized on the comment of an ignoramous and used it to terminate your account.
> 
> I hope you have better luck at DirecTV and I appreciate your attitude in this circumstance, I have seen other posters here go ballistic over 5% of what you've put up with.


I appreciate your comments. I've been around long enough to recognize the BS, and to understand that some people just aren't comfortable with the truth. I can't change them, nor can I control their actions. I am responsible and accountable for my own actions. At the end of the day, when I look in the mirror, I hold myself accountable for my actions. Occasionally, there are a few knots on my forehead from beating my head against the wall; but those provide opportunities for learning and healing.

OK - enough of that! My head is spinning! :roundandr


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## Inkosaurus (Jul 29, 2011)

wyy183 said:


> I have the HD PVR. I'm dumping what I can. I've gone thru and prioritized the top 100 recordings that I have, that I want to capture.
> 
> My PC is close to 10 years old. I've updated the RAM, HD, and have a dual-layer DVD burner. I'm trying to burn a test DVD at this time. Processor is running 100% with a single-session Firefox being the only other thing running. So for it has been running for about 2 hours, and is about 30% done. Maybe by morning? PC has a single-cord 2 GHz processor. I also killed all non-essential processes and halted anti-virus prior to this test. Just want to make sure that it actually works the way it is supposed to. I can live with it taking a day to create a DVD, if necessary (just do one a day for the next 14 years?) But, I want to have the things that I enjoy, and that won't be repeated - saved. If receiver is still active, I will start with some of my favorite movies and TV-series. Once I have things on EHD on PC, then I can burn DVD's as I desire.
> 
> ...


I have a hauppauge 1212 that I use primarily for recording Battlefield 3 gaming on console for my blog and YT but some tips ;

Make sure your recording in M2TS.

Reboot the PVR about every 5 hours of continual use, Every now and again I get one recording that my PC thinks is like 5 hours long when its really 30 minutes. Scrubbing through on windows media player is a pain in the ass with these because if you go to say 5 minutes in, scrub forward, then back to 5 minutes , the scene at 5 minutes is completely different. The timeline seems to have repeats of the same recording over layed each other. Very wonky.

I havent tried burning one of those screwed up recordings, but they have caused some of video editing software to run incredibly slow. In fact to date the only software that managed to work well with it was Adobe Premier pro, it crashed Sony Vegas and Adobe After Effects when I tried to edit the glitched recording xD


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## wyy183 (Sep 20, 2012)

Inkosaurus said:


> I have a hauppauge 1212 that I use primarily for recording Battlefield 3 gaming on console for my blog and YT but some tips ;
> 
> Make sure your recording in M2TS.
> 
> ...


I'm currently recording in MP4, as I'm looking at getting a "Western Digital - WD TV Live Media Player," which I can hook my USB drive(s) directly to and play back movies and other recordings without needed to burn them to a disc. It doesn't list M2TS or TS as supported playback options.


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

> There was a young tech here back in February. He added in his call notes something like "customer is using equipment in a manner which it is not designed." This wasn't even a Dish person, but a dealer...


Did you happen to get his name? No way a dealer should impact you in this way. You clearly have a problem with your A/C service and this kid could not recognize the issue.

Personal opinions are not facts, this kid made an accusation that is unfounded. How were you using the equipment in a manor that it was not designed? I'd fight for my rights to maintain your account.


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## sregener (Apr 17, 2012)

"Michael P" said:


> Personal opinions are not facts, this kid made an accusation that is unfounded. How were you using the equipment in a manor that it was not designed? I'd fight for my rights to maintain your account.


You have no right to a Dish account. Check the terms and conditions and it clearly says Dish can terminate your account at any time for any reason. Yeah, the using equipment improperly comment was wrong, but if Dish wants to screw themselves out of a paying customer, that is their right. Now, you could call up and tell them you're filing a complaint with the BBB, which may or may not get you any action or resolution, but the fact is that Dish breaks no law in canceling your account.

Note that when Dish cancels your account, no ETF applies.


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## Inkosaurus (Jul 29, 2011)

sregener said:


> . Now, you could call up and tell them you're filing a complaint with the BBB, which may or may not get you any action or resolution,


lol.

This will accomplish one of two things.
Him speaking to a CSR that doesnt care, will put him on mute and laugh/chuckle.

Or,
That CSR will just transfer him to the ERT department again.

Something to keep in mind, if you keep speaking to ERT you can get flagged as a trouble customer and then all of your calls will always be instantly transfered to ERT.


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## runner861 (Mar 20, 2010)

Where is the DIRT team in all of this?


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## Inkosaurus (Jul 29, 2011)

Why would they get involved ERT is handling it.


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## wyy183 (Sep 20, 2012)

Thought I would post some updates - I will be asking additional questions in the appropriate forums at a later time.

E* cancelled me on 9/24. I have until 10/24 to return my 922 receiver. After a call, I have been credited for the $17 shipping cost of the receiver. Receiver is disconnected from satellite and network, and still functions. Which is good, as I'm dumping 7-10 movies/events to PVR. Approximately 80 events to go at this moment. Shouldn't be a problem getting it back on time.

I signed up with D* about two weeks ago. HR34/700, H25-500. AM21 was connected this morning. All seems to be working just fine. I just ordered AV-cable for H25 from Amazon a while ago. That will go to PVR when I finish with the 922.

I got Choice Xtra, had a referral, so my rate is about half of what I was paying with E*.

I've had one issue with my HR34, and that was taken care of when a software update arrived the next morning. They have followed up multiple times to make sure that all is working the way that I want.

So far, I'm happy with the D* system.


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