# New GenieGO - Not impressed!



## markrubi (Oct 12, 2006)

I am not impressed at all so far. 

1. I must be on wifi to stream out of the home?

Why can I not utilize my LTE data connection on my iphone? I can use the LTE by turing on the hotspot feature and then view on my ipad. I can use it one way but not the other. Makes no sense!

2. I am trying to stream on my imac right now in home and it is constantly pausing making viewing a show ridiculously frustrating! 

GG is hooked into my router. I have 3 dvr's 2 HR24 &1 HR21


----------



## Go Beavs (Nov 18, 2008)

Yeah, streaming isn't the GenieGo's strong suit.

It works much better for downloading content and playing back the show from memory. That's its niche.


----------



## markrubi (Oct 12, 2006)

Does the app not buffer video during streaming?


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

GenieGo is _*primarily*_ intended to be a device that supports downloaded content to be taken with you on a mobile device. No Internet connection is required for this main purpose. It works extremely well for what it was designed to do as this main capability.

While streaming is also supported as a secondary function, like any other streaming offering, how well it works depends on the quality of your Internet connection and bandwidth (speed). Streaming support was nearly an afterthought for this device.


----------



## itzme (Jan 17, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> GenieGo is _*primarily*_ intended to be a device that supports downloaded content to be taken with you on a mobile device. No Internet connection is required for this main purpose. It works extremely well for what it was designed to do as this main capability.
> 
> While streaming is also supported as a secondary function, like any other streaming offering, how well it works depends on the quality of your Internet connection and bandwidth (speed). Streaming support was nearly an afterthought for this device.


I don't travel very often, but when I like to put a couple movies on my ipad to watch on the plane. The Xfinity app shows downloadable movies and I simply click " Download". Then it's on the Ipad when I want it. There are no special devices, nothing to install, or services involved. Why can't it be that simple with DirecTV?


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Haven't used a GG since the end of April, but I used streaming a lot for 2-3 months before. I had no playback issues that weren't related to network problems, outside the GG's control.


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

itzme said:


> I don't travel very often, but when I like to put a couple movies on my ipad to watch on the plane. The Xfinity app shows downloadable movies and I simply click " Download". Then it's on the Ipad when I want it. There are no special devices, nothing to install, or services involved. Why can't it be that simple with DirecTV?


Does it allow you to download anything, or just selected movies? If it's the latter, there's a difference right there.


----------



## itzme (Jan 17, 2008)

dpeters11 said:


> Does it allow you to download anything, or just selected movies? If it's the latter, there's a difference right there.


You're right, not everything. But I believe that's an issue of licensing and agreements, not hardware and software. My point is that I believe the GenieGo hardware and software is an unnecessary barrier. The technology I seek exists simply with an app... Nothing else. Am I wrong? I mean I could be wrong and am seeking an explanation of why the "GenieGo system" is needed... Or more desirable.


----------



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

With the GenieGo I can load up anything I have recorded on the DVR, no restriction as to what can be loaded, though it does expire. No Internet connection needed. I bet they don't want to deal with upset customers that exhausted their mobile data limit as well.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

itzme said:


> You're right, not everything. But I believe that's an issue of licensing and agreements, not hardware and software. My point is that I believe the GenieGo hardware and software is an unnecessary barrier. The technology I seek exists simply with an app... Nothing else. Am I wrong? I mean I could be wrong and am seeking an explanation of why the "GenieGo system" is needed... Or more desirable.





dpeters11 said:


> With the GenieGo I can load up anything I have recorded on the DVR, no restriction as to what can be loaded, though it does expire. No Internet connection needed. I bet they don't want to deal with upset customers that exhausted their mobile data limit as well.


GenieGo and the XFinity streaming app are designed to provide different services and functions - so comparisons are of little value.

GenieGo has no dependency on Internet access once content is downloaded to a mobile device - you can view content on your mobile device anytime, anywhere. Streaming can be done too...but again...it's not the main purpose of that offering. If you're in a hotel, on a plane, in an airport, in a car...and can't get good Internet connectivity or any connectivity at all - GenieGo lets you watch any downloaded content that you have taken with you on your mobile device.

XFinity's mobile app is specifically designed for streaming content...so some form of connectivity is required. You can't download hours upon hours of content and then watch it later at your convenience without an Internet connection.

Apples and Oranges.


----------



## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

itzme said:


> The technology I seek exists simply with an app... Nothing else. Am I wrong? I mean I could be wrong and am seeking an explanation of why the "GenieGo system" is needed... Or more desirable.


But it's been established that the app has limits. You're downloading limited content, not anything that you want from your DVR. If Comcast let you transfer anything that you have, yeah, that's a better way to go, but they don't.

A Hopper from Dish with either a Sling adapter or Sling built in is the best I've seen at both streaming content and offloading programming to a device.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using DBSTalk mobile app


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

dualsub2006 said:


> But it's been established that the app has limits. You're downloading limited content, not anything that you want from your DVR. If Comcast let you transfer anything that you have, yeah, that's a better way to go, but they don't.
> 
> A Hopper from Dish with either a Sling adapter or Sling built in is the best I've seen at both streaming content and offloading programming to a device.


Having viewed the GenieGo for years, XFinity app at 2 locations, and Dish offering at CES this past January...they all serve a purpose (each a bit different)...but not sure I'd rate Dish as the best...in fact...the video quality on their offering was the poorest quality of the 3 choices.

Then again...it's nice to have choices....as long as people realize these are all a bit different from each other.


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

dpeters11 said:


> With the GenieGo I can load up anything I have recorded on the DVR, no restriction as to what can be loaded, though it does expire.


Did they remove the restrictions on OTA, RSN, VOD and PPV content?


----------



## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Having viewed the GenieGo for years, XFinity app at 2 locations, and Dish offering at CES this past January...they all serve a purpose (each a bit different)...but not sure I'd rate Dish as the best...in fact...the video quality on their offering was the poorest quality of the 3 choices.


I've seen them all in the real world, and for my money the Hopper with Sling wins hands down. The only thing that comes close is my Slingbox, but it's a Solo and I believe the Hopper streams at higher resolution than it does.

The Sling features of the Hooper, both streaming and offloading are the only things I actually would prefer Dish for.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using DBSTalk mobile app


----------



## lugnutathome (Apr 13, 2009)

I can finally weigh in on the GenieGo after purchasing one from Solid Signal just before the July 4th weekend. I received the original model and was advised by my brethren here to use the GGo app for my iOS devices. But the lure of using the DirectTV iPad app tasked me. It works sort of. It streams a bit then locks up, most of the time the 30 second rewind works to reset the stream but frustrating this is.

I added a memory stick and it would not format until I burnt a license for GG on a Mickey$oft Windup (Microsoft Windows) 8.1 laptop which displayed the request to format and add the additional memory. Well now, , , it streamed flawlessly to the laptop which is just above the minimum requirements for GG. Hmm. . .

Transcoding and downloading to the iOS devices has been flawless! It is a GREAT product for this purpose! In this context Mongo happy  Wife went in for a tooth extraction last week and I watched "The Bridge" on an iPaid2 in the waiting room.

So I had a small bonus show up and went out and nabbed a new iPod Touch and an iPaid Mini (both 32G) and I gave in to the advice the wise ones here gave me initially and downloaded the GG app for iOS on both. Streaming has been flawless! (after I restarted one of my wireless access points that had been orphaned by a power outage last Friday).

So I strongly suggest you try the GG specific apps based on tribal knowledge and my own experiences.

The DirectTV iPaid app has a teasing amount of the GG setup options to display, I have found nothing on the GG specific app on iOS for these setup controls  . The WindUp app seems to have it all for setting up though.

So based on my lumpy experiences, at least operationally for iOS devices (and WindUp 8.1) the GG app is the shizzle. The regular DirectTV app for at least iPad has promise but it cannot quite fulfill for the GG end of things. At least that is what I have seen.

Now I have to wait two weeks to free off the initial 2 iPaid licenses so I can transfer them to the working applications.

Don "ecstatic that I finally can stream off the DVRs directly in home and it works without tinkering!" Bolton


----------



## dennisj00 (Sep 27, 2007)

I primarily use the DAFI app for GG and it transcodes, downloads, and streams fine both in and out of home. The only gotcha would recommend is kill the multi-task when switching in / out of home or vice versa. It finds the GG much faster.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

dualsub2006 said:


> I've seen them all in the real world, and for my money the Hopper with Sling wins hands down. The only thing that comes close is my Slingbox, but it's a Solo and I believe the Hopper streams at higher resolution than it does.
> 
> The Sling features of the Hooper, both streaming and offloading are the only things I actually would prefer Dish for.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using DBSTalk mobile app


My viewings were all in the "real world", and respectfully disagree regarding the comparable Dish offering - the image presentation was visibly inferior to GenieGo. Even the manager at the Dish booth showing the demo apologized and blamed it on "the iPad2 wasn't a good model to show it".


----------



## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

markrubi said:


> I am not impressed at all so far.
> 
> 1. I must be on wifi to stream out of the home?


JB'ing will remove this restriction.


----------



## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

harsh said:


> Did they remove the restrictions on OTA, RSN, VOD and PPV content?


One of the GenieGo2 reviewers said OTA can be viewed.
RSN? I have never had a problem transcoding my RSNs.
But I can't transcode any out of market pro-sports games even with a subscription (NHL CI). Those, for GenieGo purposes only, are considered PPV.
I also seem to remember someone posting that Adult channels can't be transcoded. But I don't subscribe to any, so I can't confirm.


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

trh said:


> One of the GenieGo2 reviewers said OTA can be viewed.


I'm unable to test, but I heard the GG1 can also transcode OTA now. Hopefully someone can confirm.


----------



## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> My viewings were all in the "real world", and respectfully disagree regarding the comparable Dish offering


Real world doesn't mean a trade show floor to me. An end user device used where they live, work or play, that's real world to me.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using DBSTalk mobile app


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

dualsub2006 said:


> Real world doesn't mean a trade show floor to me. An end user device used where they live, work or play, that's real world to me.


When the Dish VP of Sales shows off a new capability himself...and its not all that impressive...a different "real world" can't be better.

So to get back on topic....the OP was asking about GenieGo...and the unit does what its designed to do as others have validated. There appears to be some confusion as to what this device is intended for...and those seeking to use it for primarily streaming might consider another alternative if that's their main purpose. If a user wants a way to view recorded content anyplace/anytime...then GenieGo is for you.


----------



## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> When the Dish VP of Sales shows off a new capability himself...and its not all that impressive...a different "real world" can't be better.


Wrong



> to get back on topic....the OP was asking about GenieGo...and the unit does what its designed to do as others have validated. There appears to be some confusion as to what this device is intended for...and those seeking to use it for primarily streaming might consider another alternative if that's their main purpose. If a user wants a way to view recorded content anyplace/anytime...then GenieGo is for you.


The confusion comes from the way that D* markets the device. I mean, if you just went to their website and read the description, you'd think that the GenieGo actually does a really good job of streaming content to your mobile device or computer.

If they'd just be honest and tell people that it's tough to set up, the streaming quality is very low and even when set up properly, it's not going to work reliably there'd be fewer threads here to bicker in.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using DBSTalk mobile app


----------



## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

dualsub2006 said:


> If they'd just be honest and tell people that it's tough to set up, the streaming quality is very low and even when set up properly, it's not going to work reliably there'd be fewer threads here to bicker in.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using DBSTalk mobile app


Yeah that's a genius marketing strategy. :rolling:


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

dualsub2006 said:


> Wrong
> 
> The confusion comes from the way that D* markets the device. I mean, if you just went to their website and read the description, you'd think that the GenieGo actually does a really good job of streaming content to your mobile device or computer.
> 
> ...


Ya. I can't remember how many times I saw trade show demos of products that were not yet ready for prime time.

I agree that GG streaming quality is only SD, and unlike the Sling, PQ is the same whether you have a 1mbps connection or a 10mbps connection. That said, the resolution was more than enough to look great on my iPhone 5, but only acceptable on my retina display iPad Air. The GG2 has a more powerful CPU, so I wonder if at some point it will stream at higher bit rates, if the network connection allows it.

I'm not sure it's any more difficult to set-up than a Sling, but I don't own a Sling, so I can't comment. I already knew how to forward ports on my router, so set-up was uneventful.


----------



## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

sigma1914 said:


> Yeah that's a genius marketing strategy. :rolling:


Right.

Read the OP's complaint, and then go back through all of the GenieGo threads that you can find and you'll notice that the complaints are always about streaming. Always.

D* apologists jump quickly to defend the company and excuse away how awful streaming reliability is by saying that streaming "isn't its greatest strength", but that's not good enough.

GenieGo is marketed as having two features:

1. Offload shows from your DVR to your device. 
2. Stream shows to your devices inside your home, and outside on WiFi or cellular if you have the right device and carrier.

It does a good enough job offloading shows allowing for the occasional hang in the process, but it's awful at streaming. Horribly awful.

Telling the OP in this thread or in any other that GenieGo isn't the best option for streaming is excuse making and a dodge and deflect harm from D* strategy that is, at best misguided.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using DBSTalk mobile app


----------



## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

Steve said:


> I'm not sure it's any more difficult to set-up than a Sling, but I don't own a Sling, so I can't comment. I already knew how to forward ports on my router, so set-up was uneventful.


I set my Slingbox up in Chrome on my computer in 10 minutes, including creating my Sling account. 
For GenieGo, I spent 2 hours on the setup part, and hours more dealing with support trying to make streaming reliable enough to not have to buy a Slingbox.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using DBSTalk mobile app


----------



## dennisj00 (Sep 27, 2007)

I've had both a GG and now a GG2 and other than an occasional glitch that required a reboot (what hasn't), neither took over 10 minutes to set up. And to download a client on PC, iPhone / iPad, and MAC.

Streaming works both in and out of home - if your upload at home and the download at your remote location is sufficient - and ports aren't blocked.

People complain about PQ but I have screen shots from HBO-Go, Netflix and WatchESPN that are from the same programs and other than onscreen details like the clock and top bar, you can't tell the source.


----------



## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

dennisj00 said:


> People complain about PQ but I have screen shots from HBO-Go, Netflix and WatchESPN that are from the same programs and other than onscreen details like the clock and top bar, you can't tell the source.


I have comparison screenshots of the same show from my Nexus 7, at roughly the same time in the program done in-home on both the GenieGo and Slingbox Solo. The differences are stark.

On GG during sporting events, you can't even read the score crawl at the bottom of the screen. The Slingbox is crisp and clear.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using DBSTalk mobile app


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

dualsub2006 said:


> I have comparison screenshots of the same show from my Nexus 7, at roughly the same time in the program done in-home on both the GenieGo and Slingbox Solo. The differences are stark.


likely because you had enough bandwidth that the Solo took advantage of it to transcode at higher bit rates. Right now, the GGs only stream up to a fixed (relatively low) resolution, even if more bandwidth is available.


----------



## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

Steve said:


> likely because you had enough bandwidth that the Solo took advantage of it to transcode at higher bit rates. Right now, the GGs only stream up to a fixed (relatively low) resolution, even if more bandwidth is available.


No, not likely, that's it exactly. I have more than sufficient bandwidth to use two Slingboxes to stream at their full resolution outside my home. I could do more simultaneous streams than that I'm sure, but I've only physically tested two at once.

Inside my home, I've spent the last year running Ethernet cable everywhere and replacing WiFi only devices with wired. I'm down to phones, tablets, laptops and Chromecasts that use WiFi in my house.

My reply was specific to the person that mentioned how good his GenieGo screenshots looked. If you have nothing to compare to, apples-to-apples, GenieGo looks pretty good.

Edit: I also still have 2 WiFi Rokus and my 3DS on WiFi. Just full disclosure.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using DBSTalk mobile app


----------



## dennisj00 (Sep 27, 2007)

dualsub2006 said:


> My reply was specific to the person that mentioned how good his GenieGo screenshots looked. If you have nothing to compare to, apples-to-apples, GenieGo looks pretty good.


If you read my post completely, I was comparing GG to streaming Netflix, HBO/GO, WatchESPN on the iPad. Scrolling crawls on ESPN are very readable on either source.

Maybe it's the Nexus / Android client?


----------



## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

That'd be my guess.


----------



## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

dennisj00 said:


> If you read my post completely, I was comparing GG to streaming Netflix, HBO/GO, WatchESPN on the iPad. Scrolling crawls on ESPN are very readable on either source.
> 
> Maybe it's the Nexus / Android client?


That's not an equal comparison, but I'll find something that's on my DVR and HBO Go, and I'll do screenshots of GenieGo, Slingbox and HBO Go. I already know the finishing order, but I'll do it anyway.

I get the same results on iPad and Windows laptop as I do Android, I just don't have screenshots from those devices. It's tough to say that any one of them is the best, but I'd lean to saying that my Windows 8 laptop has the best PQ of the GenieGo clients.

That's still not good picture quality compared to other options, just best among GenieGo apps.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using DBSTalk mobile app


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

I found the GG image "soft" once I got a retina iPad. It looked fine on the iPad2. It's always looked great on the iPhone, tho. That's the device I used most for OOH streaming with good success.

This old post shows some iPad Air screen grabs: http://www.dbstalk.com/topic/211192-geniego-2-first-look/?view=findpost&p=3244820


----------



## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

dualsub2006 said:


> It's tough to say that any one of them is the best, but I'd lean to saying that my Windows 8 laptop has the best PQ of the GenieGo clients.


Then something is really off. That you see a better PQ on a much larger screen with the same level of input is anomalous to say the least.


----------



## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

Laxguy said:


> Then something is really off. That you see a better PQ on a much larger screen with the same level of input is anomalous to say the least.


I tend to chalk it up to the fact that my Nexus 7 is an HD screen and my 11" laptop is not. I believe that my Nexus 7 2012 looks a bit better than my Nexus 7 2013. Again, SD screen vs HD screen.

I have also compared the iPad app on an HD and non-HD iPad and the lower resolution iPad looked better. To me at least.


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

dualsub2006 said:


> I have also compared the iPad app on an HD and non-HD iPad and *the lower resolution iPad looked better*. To me at least.


My experience as well. The retina display is unforgiving, IMO.


----------



## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

OK, that part makes sense, but I'd prefer a smaller display to a larger one when pixels are limited, all things being equal—which they often ain't.


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

trh said:


> One of the GenieGo2 reviewers said OTA can be viewed.


According to the four month old GenieGo overview guide (dated later than the Solid Signal review), OTA remains a no-go.


Program TypeGenieGoLocal ChannelsFull SupportBasic ChannelsFull SupportPremium ChannelsFull SupportPPV-PAR EventsFull SupportOTA/AM21NoSubscription-VODNoPPV-VODNoPPV-RentalNo3DNoPre-DVDNo
GenieGo content limitations


----------



## dennisj00 (Sep 27, 2007)

harsh said:


> According to the four month old GenieGo overview guide (dated later than the Solid Signal review), OTA remains a no-go.
> 
> 
> Program TypeGenieGoLocal ChannelsFull SupportBasic ChannelsFull SupportPremium ChannelsFull SupportPPV-PAR EventsFull SupportOTA/AM21NoSubscription-VODNoPPV-VODNoPPV-RentalNo3DNoPre-DVDNo
> GenieGo content limitations


Wrong again. Don't believe everything you read on the internet! The PC client and DAFII allow OTA.


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

dennisj00 said:


> Wrong again. Don't believe everything you read on the internet! The PC client and DAFII allow OTA.


The information is from DIRECTV University's GenieGo training guide v1.0.0 dated March 26, 2014 at 1:13pm.

I have little problem *not* believing what DIRECTV says about their products, but that's where I start.


----------



## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. -- JFK


----------



## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

Laxguy said:


> OK, that part makes sense, but I'd prefer a smaller display to a larger one when pixels are limited, all things being equal-which they often ain't.


As do I, using my Nexus 7 all but exclusively because that's what I feel is the best screen size for me personally.

It just happens that GenieGo content doesn't look good on it at all. And it's not like I can just run out and buy a really good Android tablet with an SD screen to make it look better.

Even more mid-range Android tablets have HD screens these days, there are deeper tradeoffs on RAM and processor that make them a no-go.

I flew 5,000 miles last week and didn't offload a single show to my tablet with the GenieGo. I rented a movie from Google Play and downloaded a bunch of SD movies from my Ultra Violet account.

The SD UV content looked quite a bit better than GenieGo transcodes would have.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using DBSTalk mobile app


----------



## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

I haven't done screenshots of the differences between GenieGo and Slingbox in several months, and I haven't tried GenieGo streaming for quite a while either. 

This baseball game was the last that I tried GenieGo streaming, and it was unwatchable. If these uploaded in the right order, the GenieGo is first, and this is quite a substantial upgrade in PQ from last use. 

Previously, I couldn't read the text on the last line of the banner at all. This streaming is from inside my home. 

There haven't been any Android app updates since last use, but I hear there have been a few GenieGo firmware updates in that time. 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using DBSTalk mobile app


----------



## dennisj00 (Sep 27, 2007)

From what I'm seeing in either of those pictures, it's not from the GG device. It's either in the source program or something wrong in the client device.


----------



## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

How did you take those shots? One can change the title of the image before uploading to be sure.


----------



## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

dennisj00 said:


> From what I'm seeing in either of those pictures, it's not from the GG device. It's either in the source program or something wrong in the client device.


That's way beyond reaching.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using DBSTalk mobile app


----------



## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

dennisj00 said:


> From what I'm seeing in either of those pictures, it's not from the GG device. It's either in the source program or something wrong in the client device.


They're screenshots from my Nexus 5 phone.

I didn't spend much time looking, but the mobile app didn't offer an option to rename the images.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using DBSTalk mobile app


----------



## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

There's nothing wrong with my recording, and there's nothing wrong with my DVR. 

If you look at the streaming bitrates that I've highlighted, THAT'S what's wrong with the GenieGo. 

The GG and Slingbox are both pretty well maxed out as bitrates go, and I've included a screenshot of the Slingbox without the controls to show the difference in quality. 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using DBSTalk mobile app


----------



## dennisj00 (Sep 27, 2007)

I'm confused. Are both of the baseball (SC) pictures in your post 45 from GenieGo? What are the vertical 'lines'


----------



## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

In both posts that I did the GenieGo player screenshot is first and the Sling player screenshot is second. 

The vertical lines in the first set of screenshots is from the video being shot through the protective netting at the ballpark. 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using DBSTalk mobile app


----------



## prushing (Feb 14, 2007)

I can confirm dualsub2006's findings. I've posted the comparison screen shots before and Slingbox puts GG2 to shame. I can get 3-4 mbps on the Slingbox app, GG2 doesn't really make it easy to tell, but I think it usually maxes out around 750 kbps


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

prushing said:


> I can confirm dualsub2006's findings. I've posted the comparison screen shots before and Slingbox puts GG2 to shame. I can get 3-4 mbps on the Slingbox app, GG2 doesn't really make it easy to tell, but I think *it usually maxes out around 750 kbps*


Regular GG transcodes to disk are ~1.2mbps***. Streaming is adaptive, but I'm pretty sure it'll stream up to 1.2mbps if both the upload and download bandwidths support it. I say this because streaming PQ on my home network looked the same as transcode playback on my iPad Air.

*Based on the fact a 32-minute _Mike and Molly_ transcode was 292Mb on disk. By my calculations, that works out to 1245kbps.


----------



## acostapimps (Nov 6, 2011)

All I can say is pictures speak a thousand words.


----------



## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

Steve said:


> Regular GG transcodes to disk are ~1.2mbps***. Streaming is adaptive, but I'm pretty sure it'll stream up to 1.2mbps if both the upload and download bandwidths support it. I say this because streaming PQ on my home network looked the same as transcode playback on my iPad Air.


If you look at my screenshot of the Sling Player bitrate, clearly my home network can handle much better than 600k.

And my GenieGo is in the more advantageous spot on my network. It's plugged directly into my AP at the head end of my network while the Slingbox sits way down the line behind two switches.

Never have I gotten anywhere near 1.2k streaming bitrate out of my GenieGo. The transcoded bitrate? I couldn't say as I haven't out much effort into trying to figure that end of the puzzle.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using DBSTalk mobile app


----------



## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

It's patently clear that Sling slings out a higher bitrate than GenieGo, but beyond this, what is it we are discussing??


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

dualsub2006 said:


> If you look at my screenshot of the Sling Player bitrate, clearly my home network can handle much better than 600k.
> 
> And my GenieGo is in the more advantageous spot on my network. It's plugged directly into my AP at the head end of my network while the Slingbox sits way down the line behind two switches.
> 
> ...


Do you have a GG1 or a GG2? Asking because I wonder if the GG2 streams at a higher rate. That's the device I was using when last comparing GG streaming to GG downloading on the iPad Air.

The other possibility is GG streams at lower bit rates to smaller screens. Maybe 600kbps to phones and up to 1200kbps to iPads?

I no longer can do it, but perhaps someone with a GG2 or iPad can take a steaming vs. download comparison screenshot.

The bitrate calculation I made was based on a GG1 transcode. I was able to see the size on disk on the PC client.


----------



## dennisj00 (Sep 27, 2007)

dualsub2006 said:


> And my GenieGo is in the more advantageous spot on my network. It's plugged directly into my AP at the head end of my network while the Slingbox sits way down the line behind two switches.


If your network is working properly, there is no 'advantageous spot' for the connection. Other than possible bad wireless connections.

And I doubt anyone could identify the source in the PQ of the posts in your #45 in a blind test.

Your other pictures do show differences in PQ, but again, I'm not sure why you're seeing one so bad from GG from your in-house network.


----------



## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

dennisj00 said:


> If your network is working properly, there is no 'advantageous spot' for the connection. Other than possible bad wireless connections.


Actually, when you've yet to finish setting up your hardwired network and you have multiple switches between a device and the access point, that is a disadvantage.

Further, when you have a device that is sitting at the end of a long Ethernet run, that's a disadvantage.

Both describe my Slingbox position on my network.

My network works fine, it's just not ideal. Yet.


----------



## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

Steve said:


> Do you have a GG1 or a GG2? Asking because I wonder if the GG2 streams at a higher rate. That's the device I was using when last comparing GG streaming to GG downloading on the iPad Air.
> 
> The other possibility is GG streams at lower bit rates to smaller screens. Maybe 600kbps to phones and up to 1200kbps to iPads?


I have a GenieGo 1, and I've never gotten higher bitrates on my laptop. I don't think the GenieGo is smart enough to adapt bitrate to screen size. Slingbox isn't.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using DBSTalk mobile app


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

dualsub2006 said:


> I don't think the _GenieGo_ is smart enough to adapt bitrate to screen size. Slingbox isn't.


It could be the _client _requests the streaming bitrate, based on ping and the screen size it's installed on. Just a WAG. Don't know for sure.


----------



## prushing (Feb 14, 2007)

I tested on my Kindle fire hdx 7".

GG2- ~400kbps
Slingbox- ~1.2mbps

This is the exact same network, slower hotel speed. The GG2 just doesn't stream at the full bit rate for me. This was a transcoded show, so it was already on the GG2 hard drive. 

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

It's cool the Android devices can report the streaming bit rates. Can't do that for the iOS client, AFAIK.

Would love to know exactly what's going on UTH, because I'm reasonably sure I was seeing comparable (albeit soft) PQ at home on the 9" iPad Air screen, when comparing streaming vs. downloaded playback. Haven't used one since April, but I'm fussy about PQ, so I would have noticed if there was a big drop-off on the home LAN. I had no complaints about the iPhone 5 PQ, streaming or downloaded, home or OOH, but that was a 4" screen.


----------



## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

I just fired up my Win8 Ulttabook, and though it doesn't report the bitrate I can tell you that it's very close to my phone and tablet. 

I think the thing that does make me say it looks better is that the non-HD screen on this thing makes text look better. By that, I mean that the HD artifacting is very noticeable on text.

The PQ is still very low, but with the video window at less than full screen it does look better than my phone or tablet. Again, I think that's SD vs HD. 

EDIT: Apparently I don't know my hardware very well. My laptop screen resolution is 1366x768, which is a good bit below my phone even, but apparently that's good enough for ASUS to market this as HD. 

Now I'd really like to know the streaming bitrate on the PC GenieGo PC app. 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using DBSTalk mobile app


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

dualsub2006 said:


> Now I'd really like to know the streaming bitrate on the PC GenieGo PC app.


I think if you start the Win Task Manager and select the "performance" tab, you can then select the "resource monitor" and view network consumption by app.

I get what you're saying about your laptop screen. I recall GG PQ looked better on the lower resolution iPad 2 display vs the iPad Air. Those retina displays are unforgiving.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

dualsub2006 said:


> EDIT: Apparently I don't know my hardware very well. My laptop screen resolution is 1366x768, which is a good bit below my phone even, but apparently that's good enough for ASUS to market this as HD.


The device graphics presentation horsepower & screen resolution are primary factors in the viewing quality on any mobile device. Having seen the exact same content from the exact same source transcoded from the same GenieGo device - what is viewed on 3 different devices can vary significantly.

Streaming is an entirely different beast...also impacted by the graphics capabilities...but mostly based on the bandwidth and latency of the streaming channel.


----------



## prushing (Feb 14, 2007)

I'll see if I can post a paused screen shot from GG2 stream, Slingbox SD, Slingbox HD. Just from memory, this is what I remember for PQ Sling SD < GG2 stream < GG2 download < Sling HD.


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

prushing said:


> I'll see if I can post a paused screen shot from GG2 stream, Slingbox SD, Slingbox HD. Just from memory, this is what I remember for PQ Sling SD < GG2 stream < GG2 download < Sling HD.


That would really be great. Curious to see the comparison between the GG stream and GG download on the home network. My last recollection (using a GG2) was that they were pretty close.


----------



## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

prushing said:


> Sling SD < GG2 stream < GG2 download < Sling HD.


The way that you set that up, you're actually saying that the Sling SD has the best PQ.


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

dualsub2006 said:


> The way that you set that up, you're actually saying that the Sling SD has the best PQ.


I read that as Sling SD "is less than" GG2, etc, etc,


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Steve said:


> I read that as Sling SD "is less than" GG2, etc, etc,


Yup.
....and of course none of those "assessments" how/where they were made (source, display, etc.)...which of course determines the rest of the user experience.


----------



## prushing (Feb 14, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Yup.
> ....and of course none of those "assessments" how/where they were made (source, display, etc.)...which of course determines the rest of the user experience.


they are all on the same device and the network is the same when comparing

I've also done it across 3 devices, phone, tablet, and laptop ... generally they are the same order, GG2 streaming and Slingbox SD on a PC at 14/15" start to look the same as they both look terrible.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

prushing said:


> they are all on the same device and the network is the same when comparing
> 
> I've also done it across 3 devices, phone, tablet, and laptop ... generally they are the same order, GG2 streaming and Slingbox SD on a PC at 14/15" start to look the same as they both look terrible.


That paints a better view of what any results actually mean. That said...the experience here is not consistent with those "rankings"....in particular having seen Slingbox SD being at the bottom of the list.


----------



## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

Steve said:


> I read that as Sling SD "is less than" GG2, etc, etc,


The alligator mouth eats the lesser item.


----------



## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

dualsub2006 said:


> The alligator mouth eats the lesser item.


I got the Google out on my computer, I'm a dumbass.


----------



## dennisj00 (Sep 27, 2007)

I just checked the PC client on this Asus laptop x550L and the task manager shows a 'spikey' triangular wave for the 2.4ghz wifi varying between 0 and 4.1 - 4.2 Mbps after the first few seconds. It was the same with a randomly selected 'Frontline' and a NFL football game from two different DVRs.

So I'd estimate something around 3.8 Mbps average? Full screen picture was good with no macro blocking and readable scrolls.


----------



## dennisj00 (Sep 27, 2007)

Screen cap from Panthers / Jets game streaming from GG. What's wrong with this picture? (realizing it's a screen cap saved via Paint)


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

dualsub2006 said:


> I got the Google out on my computer, I'm a dumbass.


Nah. Probably just didn't do any programming in a past life, like some of us.


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

dennisj00 said:


> Screen cap from Panthers / Jets game streaming from GG. What's wrong with this picture? (realizing it's a screen cap saved via Paint)


Looks a bit soft, but acceptable, IMHO. With the added horsepower of the GG2, as a potential returning customer, I really hope DIRECTV doubles the bit rate for in-home streaming.


----------



## dennisj00 (Sep 27, 2007)

Steve said:


> Looks a bit soft, but acceptable, IMHO. With the added horsepower of the GG2, as a potential returning customer, I really hope DIRECTV doubles the bit rate for in-home streaming.


Considering it's a 1366x768 1.3MB cap that uploaded at 891Kb, it looks fine on 15" laptop, better on the iPad.

I really doubt we're going to see many changes for GG clients / firmware.


----------



## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

Steve said:


> Nah. Probably just didn't do any programming in a past life, like some of us.


Not one minute as a programmer, and grade school was a long time ago.


----------



## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

dennisj00 said:


> Screen cap from Panthers / Jets game streaming from GG. What's wrong with this picture? (realizing it's a screen cap saved via Paint)


It's very soft, the picture lacks contrast and it's really evident that you're watching something in SD on an HD screen.

There's no way possible that you're getting 3.8 bitrate and seeing a picture that bad. My Slingbox streams at just about that bitrate and it looks phenomenal at that size and even larger.


----------



## prushing (Feb 14, 2007)

Steve said:


> Looks a bit soft, but acceptable, IMHO. With the added horsepower of the GG2, as a potential returning customer, I really hope DIRECTV doubles the bit rate for in-home streaming.


Apparently they are, I never stream in network, but I just saw up to 3.0 mbps. now it wasn't constant, but it makes me think they are limiting the bit rate based on in or out of network.

Sent from my KFTHWI using Tapatalk


----------



## prushing (Feb 14, 2007)

Here are the images on the same network using kindle fire HDX 7.

GG2 saw up to 3mbps
Slingbox is 3-4mbps on HD settings.

Ignore Slingbox bit rate as it drops when the image is paused.

Sent from my KFTHWI using Tapatalk


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Apparently the fact that streaming on the GenieGo is *not* its primary purpose / function continues to be disregarded.


----------



## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Apparently the fact that streaming on the GenieGo is *not* its primary purpose / function continues to be disregarded.


Maybe it would help if DirecTV would include that in their description of the GenieGo?


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Ya. And maybe DIRECTV would include that MRV was not the primary purpose when describing the HR2x. :lol: Products and platforms are developed in phases. Not every anticipated feature is there on day one.

Thanks to *prushing* for taking the time to make those screen grabs. The GG did much better against the Sling HD than I thought it would. I downloaded those images and *zoomed them down* to a 9" diagonal on my 19" PC screen, to try to simulate what they'd look like on an iPad, and the PQ wasn't that different.


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Here's a full-detail (100% zoom) comparison of the other frame *prushing *grabbed. Again, thanks a lot for providing the samples! GG on the right.


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

prushing said:


> Apparently they are _*[increasing the bandwidth for in-home streaming]*_, I never stream in network, but I just saw up to 3.0 mbps. now it wasn't constant, but it makes me think they are limiting the bit rate based on in or out of network.


Could be a result of the latest firmware upgrade. :up:


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

trh said:


> Maybe it would help if DirecTV would include that in their description of the GenieGo?


This is featured as the description on their main GenieGo page...and seems to be quite clear:

*Watch anywhere-without an Internet connection.*

GenieGO lets you download and watch shows recorded on your HD DVR on up to five different devices, so everyone in your family can enjoy their favorites anytime, anywhere-all at the same time. No Internet connection required to watch, so you can watch without interruption.


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

I guess some folks don't scroll. From that same page:









And if you type "GenieGo" into the search box on the DIRECTV site, the *#1* support FAQ is:

How do I enable GenieGO Out-of-Home Access in order to stream recorded shows to my mobile device outside my home?
Your GenieGO device lets you stream your recorded shows inside and outside your home over any Wi-Fi network.&#8230;


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Apparently the fact that streaming on the GenieGo is *not* its primary purpose / function continues to be disregarded.


They do devote two of the following three paragraphs to discussing the streaming function after all. I suppose it comes down to how much importance you place on the ordering of the paragraphs.


----------



## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Apparently the fact that streaming on the GenieGo is *not* its primary purpose / function continues to be disregarded


Apparently you don't know what the word fact means.

D* sells the thing as having two features, transcoding and streaming.

They don't list one as a primary feature and the other as a secondary feature, they don't say that streaming us just an add-on and you shouldn't view primarily as a streamer, and they don't say that you have to take the reasonably good (transcoding) with the bad (streaming).

Streaming not being a "primary" use for the GenieGo is an excuse, and only excuse makers see it as anything even closely resembling a fact.


----------



## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

Steve said:


> Could be a result of the latest firmware upgrade. :up:


Sadly, that won't filter down to GG1 apparently. I can't get even 1/3 of the bitrate of the Slingbox out of my GG.

I won't be buying another one as I'm finding most of what I need in the Slingbox, and I wouldn't buy another one after finding that I wasted money on the first.


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

dualsub2006 said:


> I won't be buying another one as I'm finding most of what I need in the Slingbox, and I wouldn't buy another one after finding that I wasted money on the first.


I hear ya, but for the times you may want to download because you'll be in a situation where you _can't_ stream (on a plane, e.g.), the GG's ability to auto-transcode shows is still a big plus, IMO. Ya the GG2 transcodes faster, but if you allow them to transcode overnight, does it matter how quickly it converted, as long as the show you want is ready to download in the AM? Just my .02.


----------



## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

Steve said:


> I hear ya, but for the times you may want to download because you'll be in a situation where you _can't_ stream


That's the only thing I keep it plugged in for.

Can I ask what firmware version the GG2 is on?


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

dualsub2006 said:


> That's the only thing I keep it plugged in for.
> 
> Can I ask what firmware version the GG2 is on?


I last had one in April, and it was on 2.3.p10-87339, IIRC. Not sure what's happened since then. I'm also not sure if the same version numbering applies to both models. :shrug:


----------



## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

My GG1 firmware version is 1.8.p19-90266, so you're definitely way ahead of me.

Edit: which points out the obvious flaws of D*'s "a GenieGo is a GenieGo" policy. 

If that were true and accurate, they'd be running the same firmware at least, albeit at different speeds. A GenieGo isn't a GenieGo.


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

dualsub2006 said:


> My GG1 firmware version is 1.8.p19-90266, so you're definitely way ahead of me.


They apparently are continuing to upgrade the GG1, however. My last GG1 firmware release was a 1.6.p-xxxxxxxxx, prior to getting the GG2 in the spring.


----------



## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

Steve said:


> They apparently are continuing to upgrade the GG1, however.


Yes, but that under-the-hood stuff that doesn't improve the quality of video that it puts out don't really excite me much.

I'll be keeping mine hooked up unless or until I replace it with a second Slingbox. The only one here that uses it is my baby so she can have an episode or two of Mickey Mouse Clubhouse on her Nexus 7, buy even she is losing interest in that.


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

dualsub2006 said:


> I'll be keeping mine hooked up unless or until I replace it with a second Slingbox.


I've never used a Slingbox. Can you transcode and copy to the Nexus 7 with the Slingbox as well, or just stream?


----------



## prushing (Feb 14, 2007)

I'll see what OOH streaming looks like on 4G speeds today. Previously I only got up to 700 kbps, but with the in network getting up to 3mbps, maybe they changed something recently.

OOH Streaming is still capped.

GG2- around 500 kbps
Slingbox- 1700-2000 kbps


----------



## dennisj00 (Sep 27, 2007)

GG2 current firmware is 2.3.p15-90274 and of course, there's no way to compare features by firmware version between 1 and 2.


----------



## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

Steve said:


> I've never used a Slingbox. Can you transcode and copy to the Nexus 7 with the Slingbox as well, or just stream?


sorry, I missed this. The answer is no transcoding with a Slingbox. Streaming only.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

And in case you are interested, the Vulkano streaming box, does both


----------



## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

peds48 said:


> And in case you are interested, the Vulkano streaming box, does both


Didn't they lose to Sling and get the import ban death hammer dropped on them?


----------



## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

dualsub2006 said:


> Didn't they lose to Sling and get the import ban death hammer dropped on them?


Not that I am aware. Their site is up and running...

http://bit.ly/1rm4GuH


----------



## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

They did actually lose to Sling and get banned from the US.

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2013-12/sling-patent-monsoon/

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

dualsub2006 said:


> They did actually lose to Sling and get banned from the US.
> 
> http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2013-12/sling-patent-monsoon/
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


Wow, was not aware. I see there are some on eBay, I am assuming these can be used, correct?

http://bit.ly/1uavKBP


----------



## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

They can be used, yes. Apparently the presidential review hasn't happened yet so they are possibly still importing them. 

I almost bought one, but I went with Slingbox in the end. 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## acostapimps (Nov 6, 2011)

I bought a Slingbox 500 model to use with HR44, and the setup was easy using component cables with wifi internet
Everything was working great using from PC laptop and mobile phone, Only thing I had issues with was lag using the on-screen remote from PC and also mobile phone from Galaxy Note 2, Then I tried wired connection but still had issues

It had really slow response from every press from on-screen remote, Menu,Guide,Playlist etc, Not sure why I have 50/10 internet
I did do a software update and still had lag issues.

I sold it on Ebay afterwards because of that, Nothing I tried worked even rebooting Slingbox and HR44 also resetting to factory defaults, I know I shouldn't have expected to be like an actual remote over internet, But the lag was really annoying.


----------



## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

I've just spent 10 days in Europe and used GG2 and a Sling Solo. For streaming a few times I was getting too many buffer pauses to make it watchable, even when forced to SD resolution. Tried GG2 streaming for same recording and no buffering. Spent 7 of those days out in the Mediterranean of a ship and having a bunch of GG downloaded content was great.


Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk


----------



## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

RAD said:


> I've just spent 10 days in Europe and used GG2 and a Sling Solo. For streaming a few times I was getting too many buffer pauses to make it watchable, even when forced to SD resolution. Tried GG2 streaming for same recording and no buffering. Spent 7 of those days out in the Mediterranean of a ship and having a bunch of GG downloaded content was great.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk


That's so weird. My last road trip back in July, my Genie Go wouldn't connect at all until the last night there, but the Slingbox worked every time.

Same network, and though both are in essence in the same room, they're on different TV's. One connects every time, the other, a lot less than that.

Neither ever buffers for me, so I can't really talk about that.


----------

