# FF/Pause problems driving us crazy!



## dbconsultant (Sep 13, 2005)

I have reported this as a bug and expressed my hope that it would be fixed before football starts. This weekend we confirmed what a PITA it will be with football if the fast forward and pause functions are not fixed. We watched NFL Europa's World Bowl and everytime we used the ff function the picture freezes then starts fastforwarding and freezes again when we hit play and starts playing again several seconds past where we hit play - basically uncontrollable and have to use skip back to restart it where we think we wanted to play from. Pause always comes out of pause 10 seconds forward so we have to use the skip back after coming out of pause.

These are very basic functions that were broken post 4.03 (went straight to 4.05 with no 4.04 in between) - never had any problems prior to 4.05 with the ff or pause. It happens on all channels, on live and dvr'd events and is really getting annoying. Bad enough when you just do it a couple of times during a program but when we start using it during games like we usually do it's going to get really, really frustrating.

I'm sending this to dishquality as well hoping to get some results.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I wonder... I remember back on an old Charlie Chat, Charlie mentioned that they have "something" they could implement that would get around the TiVO patent claims if they eventually lost that suit.

Not sure on the status of the lawsuit lately... but I wonder if these are the beginnings of implementation of those changes on the trick-play functions?


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## jcord51 (Feb 1, 2003)

I spoke to one of Dish's techs in reference to this and other problems dealing with fast forward and reverse. He stated that they are not aware of any problems. I made sure that they wrote up this as a problem, and told him that I was not the only person affected. My point is that it's great to share a problem or solution with this forum but you have to speak to Dish as well!


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## emathis (Mar 19, 2003)

Do these people not even use their own products?


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

I am sure they do but perhaps not in the ways that others do. For me I mainly run into this issue while watching sports type events where the percision is most needed. On other content it does not seem to be as much of an issue for me. 

Even though I am sure E* is aware of this issue given the posts here, I would suggest letting them now personally. Can't hurt and something that I would like to see improved on the L4.0x branch.

P.S. Also.. lets stay on topic and focus on the details and away from the rocks and remember the rules of the forums. I would rather this thread not wonder off into the weeds...


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## dbconsultant (Sep 13, 2005)

Ron Barry said:


> I am sure they do but perhaps not in the ways that others do. For me I mainly run into this issue while watching sports type events where the percision is most needed. On other content it does not seem to be as much of an issue for me.
> 
> Even though I am sure E* is aware of this issue given the posts here, I would suggest letting them now personally. Can't hurt and something that I would like to see improved on the L4.0x branch.
> 
> P.S. Also.. lets stay on topic and focus on the details and away from the rocks and remember the rules of the forums. I would rather this thread not wonder off into the weeds...


I e-mailed dishquality last night and will keep you all posted when I get a reply.


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## dmspen (Dec 1, 2006)

The FF issue makes me wonder if they cut the code somewhere in order to fit something else. 

My 'funniest' trick issue happened recently. My daughter hit FF, and the picture froze, she then continued to hit ff. 2 seconds later, the picture 'caught up' at x300. Her movie was almost over by the time she hit play!


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Hitting FF multiple times increases the FF speed. Once it hits 300x it goes mighty fast.


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## dbconsultant (Sep 13, 2005)

dmspen said:


> The FF issue makes me wonder if they cut the code somewhere in order to fit something else.
> 
> My 'funniest' trick issue happened recently. My daughter hit FF, and the picture froze, she then continued to hit ff. 2 seconds later, the picture 'caught up' at x300. Her movie was almost over by the time she hit play!


It's almost like the code behind the FF is taking so long to run that it freezes the picture and, if you hit it multiple times to get past the freeze, it catches up with itself and increases the FF the number of times you hit it. And if you don't hit it multiple times, hitting play freezes the picture again and then lets go past the point that you wanted it to start at.


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## AVJohnnie (Jul 27, 2004)

My guess is that the suit is at the root of the “trick-play” issue. I’m not fully clear on the exact complaint alleged by the TIVO folks – specifically whether the legal issue is with the feature’s “look and feel”, or the manner of its implementation. If it's the “look and feel” then I fear we’re probably out of luck and must face the reality of never again having the smooth operation we were used to prior to the L4.xx releases – I truly hate “look and feel” court rulings. However, if it’s the implementation, and TIVO was victimized by either a direct code lift and/or by software reverse engineering, disassembly, decompiling, etc., then I think the suit has merit – but that also means that there’s a chance that the Dish engineers could eventually regain the effectiveness of the feature with their own software implementations. Whatever the actual case, my guess is that we’re now just plain stuck with a diminished usability “trick-play”. I’m not usually this pessimistic, but I am a realist.

John


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## lujan (Feb 10, 2004)

The trick play functions even act wierder when you're using the Slingbox.


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

I've had a suspicion that the loss of smoothness on FF and such is due to Prioriities gives to each operation for access to the hard drive.

Highest should be recording and then normal playback and behind those trick play. It is possible that Dish has found that as the units get older 5 streams is a little to much for the hard drive to keep up with. Look at the D* HR-20 record any two things, 1 OTA and 1 Sat or 2 sat and playback one AFAIK.


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## dbconsultant (Sep 13, 2005)

So far this is the only reply I've gotten after e-mailing dishquality:

Thank you for expressing your concerns and interest in the DISH Network. Customer input is an important tool in our efforts to continuously improve the quality of the DISH Network service. The dishquality email box is managed by the Quality Assurance Department; we only handle picture quality issues. However, we have forwarded your concerns to the appropriate department and will advise you of their feedback.

Thank you for your patience and for being a valued customer.


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## dbconsultant (Sep 13, 2005)

Just received another response:

According to the feedback we received from Engineering, the problems you are experiencing will be addressed in the very near future. While it is unlikely that the fix will make it into the next software release, which should go some time in the next couple of weeks, it will likely be in the version after that. 

We appreciate your interest in our products and we welcome your feedback. Once the appropriate software version is released, it would be great if you would email us your opinion of its effectiveness. 

Again, thank you for your patience and for being a valued customer.

I've e-mailed them that I hope it will be fixed before football season starts as that's when it gets the highest use in our home.


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## ErinKG (Feb 2, 2004)

I haven't had any problems like this - perhaps it's specific to certain lots of receivers? I tried a bunch of things trying to replicate your issue, but nothing I do has any issues. It is all working pretty much perfectly.


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## ssmith10pn (Jul 6, 2005)

To me the Skip/FF works flawless on SD recordings.
It gets a little sluggish on HD and it gets really bad on HD Mpeg4. So theres your answer. Too much overhead.


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## bruin95 (Apr 23, 2006)

dbconsultant said:


> These are very basic functions that were broken post 4.03 (went straight to 4.05 with no 4.04 in between) - never had any problems prior to 4.05 with the ff or pause.


I've had those problems on sports channels looooooong before 4.03. Actually, I've had them since day one. The worst channel for this was always the NFL Network. It's pretty much useless to use FF, RW, or pause on that channel.


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## jmccull78 (May 19, 2004)

As far as I am concerned, this is absolutely unacceptable. I have a $5.99 DVR Fee on my bill each month (which I had a stroke about when I upgraded from 508 to a 942 -and now a 622), and as it stands, the DVR functions should be fully and completely working. I am a HUGE football fan and an avid baseball fan, and I really hope that the "pause and move one frame" problems that I experience now with the baseball games are non-existent by football season. 

I routinely hit the Skip Back button only to find my self 30sec - 50min (!) back. Then while FF ahead @ 60x, it's like a lottery draw where it will stop. 

Dish customer since college (98), and this is the first time I have actually been frustrated with a Dish product.


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## TP715 (Jan 15, 2007)

We've essentially given up on trick play. Using it drives us crazy- it's now like a treasure hunt trying to find the right place. Before the SW upgrade trick play worked absolutely perfect, almost frame accurate. Now (on our machine) its useless.


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## jcord51 (Feb 1, 2003)

I've been reading how some have not been effected by this problem, which I and others find annoying. So I tried FF/Pause in the Standard Definition channels and did not see the problem. The majority of my viewing is in HD, I do watch boxing and tennis and like doing my own replays using the pause and skip forward and backwards. So I think the problem is in the HD mode.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Good constructive criticism... Having also been bitten by this one I know it can be frustrating and we appreciate keeping threads like this on topic and constructive. Hopefully we will see a fix soon and the more info on the use cases the better. I also don't watch any SD so I guess it is time to play a bit with SD and see if I am also not seeing it there. Definitely in both OTA and Dish HD scenarios from what I can see.


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## dbconsultant (Sep 13, 2005)

My experience has been that I see it on HD, SD, live and dvr'd events. We don't have OTA so I have no experience with that. And Dish is acknowledging the problem. See my post, #14, above.


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## grog (Jul 3, 2007)

My VIP622 will be installed on the 19th of July in our new home.

I know that nothing is ever perfect but it is really good to know about these kinds of issues ahead of time.  

If I see the Fast-FWD issue I know an update is in the works and this is not an equipment issue.

Thanks for keeping us in the loop with this issue.


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## jcord51 (Feb 1, 2003)

grog said:


> My VIP622 will be installed on the 19th of July in our new home.
> 
> I know that nothing is ever perfect but it is really good to know about these kinds of issues ahead of time.
> 
> ...


I, and most of the other members, have been with Dish and their HD equipment from the beginning. I only complain when I see a degradation in service or equipment. We paid over $1000 when the first 921 appeared and waited for every software update to finally get to where we are with the 622. So when Dish makes a back-step, I want everyone involved, at Dish, to know about it and to fix it. You are really going to enjoy your 622


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## dbconsultant (Sep 13, 2005)

grog said:


> My VIP622 will be installed on the 19th of July in our new home.
> 
> I know that nothing is ever perfect but it is really good to know about these kinds of issues ahead of time.
> 
> ...


No problem and, by the way, :welcome_s !

We really enjoy our 622 and this problem is a new one that looks like Dish is aware of and working on a fix for!


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