# On its side??



## patcarp4 (Jun 29, 2007)

Can the VIP 622 be set on its side instead of flat on its bottom? I have a space restriction but plenty of room for the circulation of air.


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## Rob Glasser (Feb 22, 2005)

Welcome to DBSTalk patcarp4. Interesting first post. I don't think I've seen this question asked before. Personally I do not see why not as long as you are propping it up somehow so the vents are not blocked (air intakes are on the right side and exhaust is on the left. In order to do this you would need some sort of stand that allows clearance for the vents. The only other thing to keep in mind would maybe be stress on the hdmi port at that angle, just because it's already so problem prone. Curious what others think.


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## jsuboh (Jun 7, 2005)

Hi,

I've been using my VIP 211 in a vertical position for over a month without a problem. I recently bought a new HDTV from my bedroom and I didn't have a place for my reciever. So I placed it behind my dresser, in which my tv sits on and the wall. The remote works perfectly and the HDMI is not stressed at all. the only thing that is viewable is the TV. Just make sure you have the ventalation available, the VIP 622 can get pretty hot.


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## kckucera (Aug 1, 2005)

I think it might be prudent to find out the make and model of hard drive, not all of these like to be positiioned vertically. Then you can check the OEM specs for the drive.


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

Be sure to place it so the left side is up, that is the natural airflow through the 622 (right to left). This will allow convection to work WITH the fan instead of against it.


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

kckucera said:


> I think it might be prudent to find out the make and model of hard drive, not all of these like to be positiioned vertically. Then you can check the OEM specs for the drive.


This sounds like a solid approach!


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## sthor (Oct 1, 2006)

kckucera said:


> I think it might be prudent to find out the make and model of hard drive, not all of these like to be positiioned vertically. Then you can check the OEM specs for the drive.


I have never seen a hard drive that cared whether it was mounted vertically or horizontally.


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## thefunks67 (Feb 4, 2007)

Way back in the day ESDI drives didn't like being mounted vertically. 

I have mounted IDE and SATA drives vertically in several machines over the years and never had an issue.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Although there's no way to know without taking apart the receiver... regardless of the hard drive being able to function properly at any angle... there may be mounting considerations. Given the way most companies try to save money where they can... we don't know for sure if the hard drive inside the receiver is mounted properly to accomodate a vertical orientation.

I looked all over my manual and didn't see anything that says don't do it... so you're covered if it doesn't work and/or causes any problems... but it would be nice to know if it is internally mounted to support that orientation.

I know I've seen several of my desktop computers where I would not feel comfortable with them in another orientation for an extended period of time given how (or rather how not) they are internally constructed to support it.


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## sthor (Oct 1, 2006)

HDMe said:


> Although there's no way to know without taking apart the receiver... regardless of the hard drive being able to function properly at any angle... there may be mounting considerations. Given the way most companies try to save money where they can... we don't know for sure if the hard drive inside the receiver is mounted properly to accomodate a vertical orientation.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

sthor said:


> Thats a stretch. If its mounted its not going to matter. If the hard drive in the 622 is not firmly attached inside the case how do they survive shipping and handling prior to installation?
> 
> Airflow might be a consideration but the hard drive mounting is not a problem.


How do you know? Unless you know how it is mounted, you really don't.

Not trying to be argumentative... but shipping vs extended installation are two different things. Objects are packed for shipping and the boxes are usually labelled "this side up" to encourage a particular orientation during shipping. Yes, we all know people ignore those things at times and drop-kick boxes... but the intent for a particular orientation is clear and there is recourse for damages that incur during improper treatment during shipping.

I'm not just thinking of the hard drive... any heavy component in the case could be mounted considering a certain orientation. Plastic and/or the circuit board itself might have things mounted to it depending on gravity to be working in the same direction (down) as the mount... but if you turn it on its side you create stress at those mount points that was not considered or designed-for.

I have no way of knowing... and the book doesn't say one way or the other... but it would not surprise me if it was not designed or tested taking a vertical installation into account.


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## lpmiller (Mar 8, 2007)

you are over thinking it. The hard drive mounting has to survive shipping, and believe you me, sideways is pleasant compared to what those things usually have to survive. 

Modern drives do not care what direction they hang in, and as long as one screw is holding it in place, they aren't going to suddenly fall down either. The only thing to worry about is the venting. You need to keep in mind, the system is essentially a simplistic PC, the drive is not mounted on a special slidey tray only good for flat mounting. You can certainly use the 622 sideways, as long as those vents have clearance.

I've been working on PC's/consumer equipment for many, many years now, and there is no special mounting that is only good for one orientation.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

I'm less worried about the hard drive and more worried about the overall design. One thing for sure ... if it were my unit I would want to make sure that there was ZERO chance of it coming out of it's bracket or being bounced around more because it was not mounted as it was designed to be mounted. I agree that I would mount it where convection helps and does not fight against airflow. But most likely I would pass on a vertical installation.

If you do go ahead with a vertical mount, make sure there is NO way the unit can be bumped around or (worst case) knocked over and keep an eye on the temperatures on the diagnostic screen.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

lpmiller said:


> you are over thinking it. The hard drive mounting has to survive shipping, and believe you me, sideways is pleasant compared to what those things usually have to survive.
> 
> Modern drives do not care what direction they hang in, and as long as one screw is holding it in place, they aren't going to suddenly fall down either. The only thing to worry about is the venting. You need to keep in mind, the system is essentially a simplistic PC, the drive is not mounted on a special slidey tray only good for flat mounting. You can certainly use the 622 sideways, as long as those vents have clearance.
> 
> I've been working on PC's/consumer equipment for many, many years now, and there is no special mounting that is only good for one orientation.


I expanded the scope of my consideration to beyond the hard drive and pretty much the entire mechanical design. I know hard drives themselves are designed (for years now) to work in any orientation.

Talking hard drives, though... consider the vibration and how that loosens screws over time. Now consider your one-screw analogy... depending on how it is mounted, if gravity is working in favor of the vibration then the drive will never loosen itself and fall out... but if gravity is pulling down (in a different orientation) the screw could loosen and the drive eventually un-mount itself.

There are other things in there too... like the circuit board and the transformer for the power supply... who knows if these things are secured in a manner that supports vertical mounting.

I'm no newbie to computers. I had one of the first home computers back in the 1970s.. and have been in and around them virtually all my life. Some internal designs are better than others.

For all we know, and I've said as much, vertical orientation is just fine... but I would like to hear that from someone more familiar with the design at Dish before I said it as a definitive statement.

I worked at a company for a while that built computers... and I know in several cases specific tests for specific uses were performed... and any uses outside of that were a "don't know" situation. We tried to cover all the bases in documentation, but not every company is as thorough with documenting what not to do.

I probably am over-thinking it... but given the design doesn't have footprints on the sides or instructions on how to mount it sideways... I tend to err on the side of caution.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Practically speaking you have only one vertical position - intake side ( right when looking to front panel) at bottom, outtake side ( was at left, there is power supply located ) at top. This way inside airflow will works correctly; in opposite orientation hot air will stuck inside and overhead HDD and chips.


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

Inside of unit has looking from the back. Vent opening for fan (about 2" channel), fan , then HDD. These are mounted on separate carriers than the main circuit board. The HDD is a Sata mounted w/ 4 plastic & metal shock mounts. there is space of about 2" to the mounting board for the pwr supply section. It is mounted on a discrete carriage as well that way the air flows between it and the main circuit board. Then there is the final vent wall. My I can't tell you how I know this but the 1st unit I have is on it's way back to E* for the BSOD issue that was occurring in it. It was 1 of the dreaded "C" versions. E* requested it's return to find out why that version seems to be notorious for the problem. I must have seen this in a dream, yeah that's it a dream. That's my story & I'm sticking to it.


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## lpmiller (Mar 8, 2007)

HDMe said:


> I expanded the scope of my consideration to beyond the hard drive and pretty much the entire mechanical design. I know hard drives themselves are designed (for years now) to work in any orientation.
> 
> Talking hard drives, though... consider the vibration and how that loosens screws over time. Now consider your one-screw analogy... depending on how it is mounted, if gravity is working in favor of the vibration then the drive will never loosen itself and fall out... but if gravity is pulling down (in a different orientation) the screw could loosen and the drive eventually un-mount itself.


DVR harddrives are low noise, low vibration units. Screws loosning due to vibrations is really a non issue. It's a problem solved long ago.



> There are other things in there too... like the circuit board and the transformer for the power supply... who knows if these things are secured in a manner that supports vertical mounting.


They are bolted on like a mainboard is. They have to be due to grounding issues. Unless the unit sees a lot of movement, or was made badly to begin with (loose screw mounts) it should not be an issue.



> I'm no newbie to computers. I had one of the first home computers back in the 1970s.. and have been in and around them virtually all my life. Some internal designs are better than others.


Sure, but systems these days are much more versatile then back then, and you could have run that Apple on it's side too, as long as it was the right side. And you didn't mind typing sideways.

I've been repairing computers and consumer electronics for 20 some years, and I've been a big nerd all my life. Well, a short nerd. Slightly overweight. _Slightly_.



> For all we know, and I've said as much, vertical orientation is just fine... but I would like to hear that from someone more familiar with the design at Dish before I said it as a definitive statement.
> 
> I worked at a company for a while that built computers... and I know in several cases specific tests for specific uses were performed... and any uses outside of that were a "don't know" situation. We tried to cover all the bases in documentation, but not every company is as thorough with documenting what not to do.


I'm going to guess your company was building for specific environments or situations, which is a different set of variables then consumer electronics. Consumer electronics have to deal with the lowest common denominator, meaning, stupid people. The only 'moving' part in the 622 is the drive, which is self contained and already designed to handle not only different mounting positions, but can even handle some physical unit movement - I remember back when moving a computer required you locking down the hard drive first. Now you can mount them in your car. Those screws are all machine installed, and they use multiple screws, in fact they usually use more than most people would think they need, especially for power boards.



> I probably am over-thinking it... but given the design doesn't have footprints on the sides or instructions on how to mount it sideways... I tend to err on the side of caution.


Which is fine if you've never opened one up before, but I've torn apart a few DVR's in my time, among other things. The only issue with these things is heat, and with planning that's easy enough to deal with. You could mount the thing upside down if you wanted to, or hang it from a vine. It's just not going to care, as long as the airflow is still a'flowing. They don't care. The only thing in a normal home theater that might car is the DVD player, because while the drive works just fine that way, you sure as heck don't want the player falling down while it's spinning a disc, unless you hate that movie. Plus it just looks dumb. But the 622 won't care.


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## rice0209 (Oct 11, 2005)

I don't see why the unit could not be mounted vertically, although as many have suggested on here, you need to make sure that their is proper ventilation. I think an easy way to test would just be to monitor the temperatures of the exhaust air in a horizontal and vertical position and compare. Building some sort of stand that would elevate the intake off the ground even by just a 1/2" would help a lot.

As for the HDD, yes most are made to be mounted horizontal or vertical but i do not recommend mounting any moving drive at an angle. There are moving platters and if the gravitational force is not even, it can cause premature wearing or even scratching of the disks inside.

To further this is the fact that dish places a warning on every unit not to move WHILE THE MACHINE IS RUNNING. Shipping and transportation are no problem since the unit isn't plugged in, but when it is, the disks are spinning and movement can cause the platters inside the HDD to rub against parts they shouldn't which scratches them and can ruin them, possibly keeping the unit from accessing information it needs. That is why i would not mount it at any angle other than Zero or ninety degrees.

While I have seen vertical and horizontal mounting options in computer cases, i have never seen a mount that wasn't level (horizontally or vertically) or at an angle. Whatever you choose, just make sure it is completely stable and can't move on its own.

Thats just my two cents.


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

OTOH the unit was designed to operate laying flat. Airflow form heatsinks may rise up when stood on end and cause other components to run hotter than designed.

Second problem Vibration if standing on the floor. It will get vibrations from people walking around. Same reason I wouldn't mount it on a Subwoofer.

Third, Pets like to mess with things down at their level.

Fourth, easier to knock over


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Remember guys... this is the support forums. Lets try and stick on topic. Off-topic post removed.


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## wje (Mar 8, 2006)

The drive is mounted nicely, open the box and look. It's retained with 4 screws in an anti-vibration mount. It's not going to fall out. As mentioned previously, the only real concern is the airflow. The 622 does depend upon convection cooling for some of its components, particuarly around the left-rear corner, hence one reason for all the slots on the top. However, I'd expect a left-side-up approach to ventilate just fine. Try it out and let us know.


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

Anybody that does try it out make a note of the tempertures reported before and after and let us know. I'd be interested.

My own feeling is that it was designed for one orientation and may or may not overheat in a different orientation.

As long as it is Horizontal or Vertical the hard drive should not be bothered.

Dell has been mounting drives from various makers both ways for years.


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## tedb3rd (Feb 2, 2006)

Split the difference!--Mount at 45 degree angle and call it art! ( - :
Seriously. Hard drive should be fine. Airflow should be fine--probably better to place with convection, but the fans are still pretty potent little things (listen to them!)--the box isn't THAT big--if it's even cubic FEET, it's not many. If you've got enough vibrations/shakes from floor traffic (etc) to push out the screws loose inside, you're gonna have hard drive damage first no matter how you place the box. If something goes wrong, you can always change your identity and get all the great "new customer" deals!! ( - :


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