# EchoStar/NDS Case Underway Today



## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

http://www.skyreport.com/#article6


> A trial pitting EchoStar and its signal security provider NagraStar against conditional access giant NDS Group gets underway today in U.S. District Court in Los Angeles, a case that has been branded by some as one of the biggest industrial espionage cases to hit the American court system.
> 
> EchoStar and NagraStar are seeking $1 billion in damages in the litigation, alleging that NDS compromised the conditional access technology utilized by the companies. Not only does the case involve the sensitive issue of satellite piracy, but also claims of sensitive corporate leaks, the employment of pirates themselves and spying.


More..... 
THIS could be interesting. I wish Echostar the BEST of luck and hope that, if the accusations are true, that they nail the jerks.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Not to be confused with NPS ... which was yesterday. 
Gotta get a scorecard.


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## rocatman (Nov 28, 2003)

Wasn't NDS associated with News Corporation?


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

NDS = News Data Systems, a division of News Corp, the owner of Directv at the time of the event in question. Dish is accusing News Corp employees of breaking their security system and leaking the break to the outside world, not a nice thing to do.


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## BabaLouie (Apr 2, 2004)

Wow! If News Corp did indeed have a hand in helping the Dish hackers, this ought to be HUGE...


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## tsduke (Mar 20, 2007)

This could be interesting indeed. But it is getting dificult to keep track of E*'s court cases.


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## spear61 (Sep 19, 2004)

This 2007 from the British Columbia Supreme Court document gives some insight on details.

http://jeremystcyr.com/hallofshame/Bronx/2007bcsc1225.pdf

Echo/Dish have budgeted 50 million for the latest card changeout and we (the customers) end up paying that extra expense.


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## FTA Michael (Jul 21, 2002)

Multichannel News has a nice long article on the story: http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6549687.html



> In a bizarre and complex tale, EchoStar alleges in its complaint, which has been amended several times, that around 1998 NDS hired noted satellite hackers and pirates, including a man named Christopher Tarnovksy, to work for it.
> 
> "NDS made the calculated decision to hire the 'worst' and most well-known satellite pirates and hackers in the world in an effort to establish and maintain 'control' over the compromising of its CAS (conditional access system) product as well as its competitors' technology," EchoStar said in its suit.


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## FTA Michael (Jul 21, 2002)

The Rocky Mountain News (with Bloomberg help) and the Denver Post (the biz reporter who covers Dish) weigh in:

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/apr/10/nds-group-faces-piracy-allegation/
http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_8869677


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

Here's the interesting part of the first article (at least to me).


> In December 2000 in two Web postings, Tarnovksy published EchoStar access-card codes that compromised 7.6 million cards that were in circulation, which "rendered a global card-swap by plaintiffs (EchoStar) unavoidable," according to the suit.
> 
> In its counter claim and other legal filings, NDS denies EchoStar's allegations.
> 
> ...


I find it interesting because NDS does not refute the fact that THEIR (not there) employee made the postings, simply that they are not responsible. I think Dish might even win this one (maybe). Also, overstating the effect of an illegal action doesn't make the action legal.


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## HobbyTalk (Jul 14, 2007)

Judge Urges Settlement In Dish Network Dispute With News Corp. Unit

Santa Ana, Calif.-Dish Network CEO Charlie Ergen spent part of his time on the stand Thursday trying to convince a jury that a lawsuit against News Corp division NDS Group was not filed in retaliation for News Corp.'s successful bid for satellite rival DirecTV Inc.

more at http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6550455.html


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## FTA Michael (Jul 21, 2002)

Favorite quote from that article:


> Out of the presence of the jury, (U.S. District Court) Judge (David O.) Carter stated he is "troubled" about the evidence that will be presented in the case, since much of it relies on known pirates, many of whom have links to one side of the case or another.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

> an NDS engineer from Haifa, Israel, already testified Thursday that he's part of the firm's "Black Hat" squad that hacked Dish's security cards


I suspect that all the security companies have such "squads", but it's what they do with the info AFTER they hack it that matters. This could be interesting to watch. I hope they don't settle.


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## spear61 (Sep 19, 2004)

Richard King said:


> I suspect that all the security companies have such "squads", but it's what they do with the info AFTER they hack it that matters. This could be interesting to watch. I hope they don't settle.


If I understand correctly, they admit opening up the code but deny knowingly releasing it on the web. Seems to me it's just like a swimming pool. You are liable for injuries if you don't keep it fenced since it is natural for the neighbor kids to want to get in the water. Similarly, it's obvious smart card code is valuable and hackers would like to get a copy of code laying around some office and you would be liable for leaving it unsecured (negligance)


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## cboylan3 (Jan 26, 2004)

spear61 said:


> If I understand correctly, they admit opening up the code but deny knowingly releasing it on the web. Seems to me it's just like a swimming pool. You are liable for injuries if you don't keep it fenced since it is natural for the neighbor kids to want to get in the water. Similarly, it's obvious smart card code is valuable and hackers would like to get a copy of code laying around some office and you would be liable for leaving it unsecured (negligance)


I dont think they admitted to hacking Dish's code, just that they hired a hacker to help with their own security. Now if you are correct that they are saying that they hacked it but did not release it, well they would have still broken the law. Remember directv's campaign from 2001 to 2004 where they sued people for buying card readers/writers and argued that they bought with intent but there was no proof that interception actually happened?

So they cant say they were right in that campaign and also be right that it was ok for them to hack dish as long as they didn't release it.


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## HobbyTalk (Jul 14, 2007)

From the article:

For instance, an NDS engineer from Haifa, Israel, already testified Thursday that he’s part of the firm’s “Black Hat” squad that hacked Dish’s security cards; while Nagravision’s chief testified that he employs a Canadian hacker that was once prosecuted for piracy by NDS.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

http://www.wired.com/politics/law/news/2008/04/murdoch


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## Westking (Mar 16, 2008)

Richard King said:


> http://www.skyreport.com/#article6
> More.....
> THIS could be interesting. I wish Echostar the BEST of luck and hope that, if the accusations are true, that they nail the jerks.


Good luck to Dish!!! Perhaps if they win maybe they can use the proceeds to pay the TIVO settlement.


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## Slamminc11 (Jan 28, 2005)

Westking said:


> Good luck to Dish!!! Perhaps if they win maybe they can use the proceeds to pay the TIVO settlement.


The money for the tivo settlement has been in the bank since the original verdict Earning interest. Nice try though.


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## Teagore (Apr 23, 2008)

the article said this lawsuit if 5 years old. that would make it right after the failed merger no? or am i wrong?


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## Leprechuan (Apr 18, 2007)

James Long said:


> Not to be confused with NPS ... which was yesterday.
> Gotta get a scorecard.


Programs, souvenirs scorecard, can't tell yer player without'em! Programs, souvenirs! Get yer scorecards!

I feel like going to a ballgame now.


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## FTA Michael (Jul 21, 2002)

Teagore said:


> the article said this lawsuit if 5 years old. that would make it right after the failed merger no? or am i wrong?


Yup, and part of Ergen's first-day testimony was reported to be designed to refute the notion that the lawsuit was based on revenge against Murdoch's companies.


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## HobbyTalk (Jul 14, 2007)

*Hacker testifies News Corp unit hired him*

SANTA ANA, California (Reuters) - A computer hacker testified on Wednesday that a News Corp (NWSa.N: Quote, Profile, Research) unit hired him to develop pirating software, but denied using it to penetrate the security system of a rival satellite television service.

More at http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSN2334980420080424


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## spear61 (Sep 19, 2004)

The saga continues. Not a good idea to irritate the judge.

http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6557161.html


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

> U.S. District Court judge David O. Carter [. . .] sent out the jury and said he needs to decide whether or not to offer a "negative inference" to the jury, noting that NDS Group CEO Abe Peled had traveled to the Santa Ana, Calif. for the trial this week but left after giving a deposition instead of remaining to publicly testify.


Sounds like grounds for an appeal. Allowing Echostar to make the point "we wish that we could ask these questions of Mr Peled, but he has declined to appear" would be cleaner than a judge telling the jury that Mr Peled fled the country to avoid testimony.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

The perception here is not good. I would say this is a big plus on Echostar's side in the case.


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## bobukcat (Dec 20, 2005)

I just can't believe this case isn't getting more attention in the Media, it has all the drama and characters they could possibly want, plus it involves a couple of the richest people in the country!


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## cboylan3 (Jan 26, 2004)

bobukcat said:


> I just can't believe this case isn't getting more attention in the Media, it has all the drama and characters they could possibly want, plus it involves a couple of the richest people in the country!


A good portion of the media is owned by murdock. Why would he want to bring any attention to this


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

I certainly would expect the other media outlets to have SOME coverage of it and so far I have seen none.


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## bobukcat (Dec 20, 2005)

Richard King said:


> I certainly would expect the other media outlets to have SOME coverage of it and so far I have seen none.


Exactly, you'd think the companies not owned by Murdoch would be all over it in order to throw some mud on their competition and maybe point out that his companies are not reporting it.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

I don't expect anything from the "news."

CNNMoney repeated the NDS glowing quarterly info news release on May 1 without attempting to get any real news, even what they could get from a simple Google search.

Of course, Larry (Darryl and Darryl's other brother) who runs the Dish PR/News Release Department, didn't time any targeted news releases about the lawsuit for May 1 when it might have actually been noticed by the drones in the media.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

http://www.skyreport.com/#article8
NEWS BRIEFS: More Updates from NDS/EchoStar Case


> According to additional press reports, the federal judge presiding over the EchoStar/NDS trial has said that News Corp.-controlled NDS could lose the case if News Corp. Chairman Rupert Murdoch doesn't testify on what he knew about the matter. The trial is focused on claims that NDS allegedly hacked EchoStar's conditional access technology and reportedly shared the information with pirates. The judge's statement joined another comment in which he criticized the lack of testimony from NDS CEO Abe Peled.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

It appears that this judge is not at all pleased. Since this is the same judge that will be instructing the jury and the same judge that has the ability to set any penalties I would think that the NDS guys would be more careful.


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## Charise (Jan 25, 2004)

Interesting item about this lawsuit on ABC's Nightline which just finished airing. It's on the Nightline website (not yet in video, if they'll add it). Read here: ABC News: Lack of Murdoch Testimony Could Cost NewsCorp a Fortune.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

> The trial, being held in Los Angeles, is expected to go to the jury later this week.


Good information. Finally another news source comments.


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## HobbyTalk (Jul 14, 2007)

_Abraham Peled, a member of News Corp's executive management committee headed by Rupert Murdoch and CEO of affiliate NDS Group, said he continued to employ Christopher Tarnovsky after he was told by another former hacker that Tarnovsky posted information on the internet to let users unscramble DISH's network and receive free service._

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=5&objectid=10508624


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## spear61 (Sep 19, 2004)

Peled told Tarnovsky to be good.

My neighbor had a dog that chased cats. Another neighbor had a cat. The dog neighbor let his dog into the cat neighbors yard. The dog killed the cat. The cat neighbor sued. The dog neighbor told the judge " I told that dog to not chase cats.


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

Charise said:


> Interesting item about this lawsuit on ABC's Nightline which just finished airing. It's on the Nightline website (not yet in video, if they'll add it). Read here: ABC News: Lack of Murdoch Testimony Could Cost NewsCorp a Fortune.


I saw that Nightline report yesterday. I'm glad this case is finally getting some press.

BTW: there is some video posted there now, it's "raw footage" of Rupert being questioned by a reporter, the bulk of this footage was a part of last night's Nightline report.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

> Tarnovsky was paid by News Corp publishing house Harper Collins and made $128,000 in 2000. At the end of the year, he received a $5,000 bonus "because he must have made a very good technical contribution," Peled testified.
> 
> An earlier trial exhibit showed that the DISH code appeared on the internet the same month Tarnovsky received his bonus.


Interesting


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## spear61 (Sep 19, 2004)

The latest update
'
http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6558720.html


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

An old but interesting filing (the dead man speaks): http://www.maynereport.com/images/2008/02/14-130ARTS2600.pdf


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

ABC Nightline coverage.
http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=4801856&affil=kdnl


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## spear61 (Sep 19, 2004)

Richard King said:


> An old but interesting filing (the dead man speaks): http://www.maynereport.com/images/2008/02/14-130ARTS2600.pdf


Wow! The dual of the titans as reported by ABC.

The news reports of the NDS summation says their lawyer referred to the actual thief as "Nipper" among other names and said that he was not their man. The affidavit document ( dead man speaks) indicates that apparantly Tarnovsky (the NDS employee) had been identified by Scullian as being Nipper when Scullian had administrative privliges of a web site the hackers were using by cross checking ids, passwords, ip addresses, etc.

This looks really good for Dish. I can't wait for the movie!


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## Curtis52 (Oct 14, 2003)

spear61 said:


> Wow! The dual of the titans as reported by ABC.


AKA "duel".


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## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

spear61 said:


> ...I can't wait for the movie!


Someone needs to die before a movie can be made


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

The dead man has spoken. The transcript that I posted above is from a dead hacker. Who's going to play the part of Charlie Ergen? It's been stated (years ago) that Beck bears a strong resemblance. I can see that.


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## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

Richard King said:


> The dead man has spoken. The transcript that I posted above is from a dead hacker. Who's going to play the part of Charlie Ergen? It's been stated (years ago) that Beck bears a strong resemblance. I can see that.


Cause of death? Mistery woman involved?


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## spear61 (Sep 19, 2004)

A nice summary of the charges and countercharges the jury must decide.

http://www.contentagenda.com/articleXml/LN789970994.html?nid=3798


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## spear61 (Sep 19, 2004)

Hot off the press.

http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idINN1454197620080514?rpc=44


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## spear61 (Sep 19, 2004)

spear61 said:


> Hot off the press.
> 
> http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idINN1454197620080514?rpc=44


Where are our jailhouse lawyers. We need their analysis. What does it mean when a jury decides in one day after listening to a month of testimony?


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## FTA Michael (Jul 21, 2002)

Thanks for that link, spear61.


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## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

spear61 said:


> Where are our jailhouse lawyers. We need their analysis. What does it mean when a jury decides in one day after listening to a month of testimony?


Not a movie material?


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## Greg Bimson (May 5, 2003)

spear61 said:


> Where are our jailhouse lawyers. We need their analysis. What does it mean when a jury decides in one day after listening to a month of testimony?


It's a jury. No one knows.

This is rather simple, actually. The evidence weighed on one side better than the other, in the jury's mind. In a civil trial, it is not proof beyond a reasonable doubt to be considered guilty. It is proof beyond a preponderance of doubt.

Keep in mind there is also a countersuit here.

My biggest concern is that the whole ordeal is so smarmy that the jury simply submits a not guilty plea on all charges from both sides.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

spear61 said:


> What does it mean when a jury decides in one day after listening to a month of testimony?


That the lawyers wasted three weeks over-presenting the case?


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

This might really make a good movie.


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## TulsaOK (Feb 24, 2004)

James Long said:


> That the lawyers wasted three weeks over-presenting the case?


My thoughts exactly.


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## Jeff_DML (Feb 12, 2008)

James Long said:


> That the lawyers wasted three weeks over-presenting the case?


not when you are billing big bucks per hour


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## spear61 (Sep 19, 2004)

NDS pays $1,500 dollars for minor infraction. Wins all else.

http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUSN1452878420080515


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## Bobham (Jan 26, 2008)

Sucks for E*. From what I read, I thought they had a good case.


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## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

Bobham said:


> Sucks for E*. From what I read, I thought they had a good case.


But after reading yesterday's news about DISH lawyers trying to get a mistrial, I smelled something funny. Why I said not much a movie material.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

jacmyoung said:


> But after reading yesterday's news about DISH lawyers trying to get a mistrial, I smelled something funny. Why I said not much a movie material.


I don't think Dish was trying to get a mistrial. If a juror has contact with someone on either side of a case it is required that it be reported to the judge. The "contact" was made with a Dish lawyer so the lawyer had to report it.

I am very surprised by the result. According to other stories on the Net including this one: http://custom.marketwatch.com/custom/tdameritrade-com/html-story.asp?guid={5ba7f9c8-4f28-4baa-9d9b-e0762dae2300} NDS will also have to cover Dish's attorney fees for the case. It's not a billion, but I would be very surprised if it was under a million. I think the jury was trying to send a signal. They felt that BOTH companies were probably attempting to do the same thing and NDS was (obviously) more successful than Dish.


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## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

In theory yes but since it did not even take the judge one day to decide to side step such issue, that tells me the DISH lawyers were trying to make something out of nothing, probably after they sensed the case would not go their way.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

It isn't nothing. They are REQUIRED to report any such contact, no matter how trivial it may seem. How is that "trying to make an issue"? From everything that I have read, and, of course Dish's lawyers were just a little bit closer than I was, I thought everything was going in the direction of a big win by Dish. Like I said, I am very surprised.

By the way, the contact was a juror greeting the lawyers in the hallway and wishing them "good luck". I wouldn't take that as anything that Dish would want to have a mistrial over and I wouldn't sense that as a negative, but then as I said before, they were just a bit closer to the situation than I was. But, that's what makes speculation interesting.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

*DISH Network Statement in Response to the U.S. District Court for the Central District of California Ruling in EchoStar vs. NDS Group*

ENGLEWOOD, Colo., May 15, 2008 (PrimeNewswire via COMTEX News Network) -- DISH Network Corporation issued the following statement in response to the U.S. District Court for the Central District of California ruling in the EchoStar vs. NDS Group:

"We are pleased that after four weeks of testimony on all the facts, the jury concluded that NDS violated the Federal Communications Act and the California Penal Code. We will continue to vigorously prosecute those individuals and companies that engage in stealing our satellite signals. While we are disappointed in the jury's damages award, we are pleased that NDS will be responsible for our attorney fees in this case, and that we were completely vindicated on NDS' meritless counterclaims."

About DISH Network Corporation

DISH Network Corporation provides more than 13.815 million satellite TV customers with industry-leading customer satisfaction which has surpassed major cable companies for seven years running. DISH Network customers also enjoy access to a premier line of award-winning Digital Video Recorders (DVRs), hundreds of video and audio channels, the most International channels in the U.S., industry-leading Interactive TV applications, Latino programming, and the best sports and movies in HD. DISH Network offers a variety of package and price options including the lowest all-digital price in America, the DishDVR Advantage Package, high-speed Internet service, and a free upgrade to the best HD DVR in the industry. DISH Network is included in the Nasdaq-100 Index (NDX) and is a Fortune 300 company. Visit www.dishnetwork.com/aboutus or call 1-800-333-DISH (3474) for more information.

This news release was distributed by PrimeNewswire, www.primenewswire.com

SOURCE: DISH Network Corporation

DISH Network Corporation
Media Contact:
Parker McConachie
202-441-5187
[email protected]


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## space86 (May 4, 2007)

Can E* start adding News Corp./Fox HD channels now ?


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## Phil T (Mar 25, 2002)

According to this article Charlie might be able to buy a one month subscription to the DirecTV family pack with his $45.69 winnings. 

http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_9275502


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## normang (Nov 14, 2002)

These kinds of rulings those reward amounts just go to show how broken the justice system really is... $45.69, how do you come up with that anyway... dart board.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

Probably 8 hackers or customers thereof on the jury.


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## Phil T (Mar 25, 2002)

Maybe they only hacked Dish for a partial month?


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## HobbyTalk (Jul 14, 2007)

Dish Network and its conditional access provider, Nagrastar LLC, may have gained only few dollars at trial in a fight with competitor NDS Group Americas, but the court has determined that the direct-broadcast satellite company will get $8.3 million back for its attorneys' fees and court costs.

More at http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6620833.html


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

I'm sure everyone was anxiously awaiting this one. From Multichannel News:


> The U.S. Supreme Court last week denied a petition by EchoStar and Dish Network to review a decision in their litigation alleging NDS hacked into the satellite TV operator's video-encryption system, putting an end to the nearly nine-year-old case.


I know it sounds sarcastic, but we really need a forum for Charlie's lawsuits, really.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

I would say separate site.


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## FTA Michael (Jul 21, 2002)

Multichannel News says today the EchoStar paid NDS "$18,935,399.49 ... on March 9, a sum that included district court fees and costs, appellate court fees and costs, and interest."

Supposedly, this means that this case is over, over, over. The only thing almost as old as this case is this thread.


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