# SIRI may not make it through 2009



## wilbur_the_goose

Good article on companies that may not survive 2009: http://www.usnews.com/blogs/flowchart/2009/2/6/15-companies-that-might-not-survive-2009.html

SIRI is one of them.


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## max1

Thanks Wilbur that was depressing to read. Let's just hope Charlie can buy Sirius XM and save it.We need an alternative to Fm. But the problem is not too many people want to pay for radio. For now I just plan to listen to music on AOL Radio along with Sirius XM on E . I get Sirius XM through E now. Max.


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## djlong

I'd hardly consider nearly 20 million subscribers "not too many people".


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## Nick

*Krispy Kreme* -- Well that's it! I'm outta here!


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## pez2002

i was sad the day all my xm channels got the boot

now im sad i read this crap


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## wilbur_the_goose

The upcoming debt may kill SIRI.

Damn - I really miss XM. A lot. I really loved that service.

Fortunately, we have a great FM station here in Philly - WXPN. Unfortunately, they're a tough "get" in the car ut here in the far western 'burbs.


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## ibooksrule

there has to be a way to save sirius. I think they should get rid of howard and some of the other big celebrities that cost to much. We need less channels dedicated to one artist and more great music channels.

There is a station out of ohio called RadioU. At one time i know they wanted to broadcast on xm or sirius. They are commercial free so they would fit right in. The only way to listen to them now is on sky angel unless you in ohio or one of the few places that they have a repeater station.
I think they would bring listeners as they are a christian rock and rap station. They have been able to survive when others could not. 

I think with 20 mil customers they could make a profit they just need someone to come in there and say this is how its going to be this this and this need to be cut in order to bring a profit.


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## pez2002

dont get rid of howard 
get rid of martha how many people are listening to her


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## max1

djlong said:


> I'd hardly consider nearly 20 million subscribers "not too many people".


Only reason why we have 20 million subscribers is because of the merger but my point is valid people don't want to pay for radio especially now. I hope charlie takes over and gives it a shot-another set of bad news Sirius files for bankruptcy-click here for story


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## ibooksrule

Howard is way way expensive. I can imagine he causes them a huge debt yearly. You have to look at it and say how many people are on there just for howard. Do those people make enough to pay for his salary. If not then bye bye.


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## steelhorse

ibooksrule said:


> Howard is way way expensive. I can imagine he causes them a huge debt yearly. You have to look at it and say how many people are on there just for howard. Do those people make enough to pay for his salary. If not then bye bye.


I am with you. I think his original deal was close to 500 mil. I can see no way he is bringing in enough subs to justify that.
He is like porn, after a while it is just more of the same.


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## Italia

steelhorse said:


> I am with you. I think his original deal was close to 500 mil. I can see no way he is bringing in enough subs to justify that.
> He is like porn, after a while it is just more of the same.


I don't know about this. I think he's probably not bringing in many or even a few new subscribers. I think his fan base is already here. He's not out in the public that makes him attract new subscribers. That maybe the issue at this point. Stern is all about his money and the spot light. Obviously, Sirius XM has a lot to do to attract new subscribers. I think they need to look at each one of their personalities and ask "what have you done lately and what is your plan to attract new subscribers?". I think Stern's claim that he is the foundation of Sirius XM is starting to wear thin. He has a part to bring in new subscribers too if this company has any chance of surviving. But that might be difficult during this bad economic time.


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## max1

Another thing Sirius XM could do is just get rid of all the DJ's and just do it automated. That would save them some money as well. They already do that on the weekends-on Magic Matt's show for example with Rebroadcast's couldn't be hard to do.


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## Stuart Sweet

KNX-AM from Los Angeles reported this morning that a Chapter 11 filing is expected within days.


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## djlong

A lot of Howard's compensation was in the now-almost-worthless stock.


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## Tubaman-Z

My wife and I actually preferred Music Choice. I wonder if D* would backtrack to that if XM goes belly up.


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## pigskins

If (when) they go under, you may not be able to get refunds. Get out now!


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## mhayes70

pigskins said:


> If (when) they go under, you may not be able to get refunds. Get out now!


:lol: That is not the answer. If everyone does that. Then you ensure they will go out of business. I will be staying for as long as I can.


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## LCDSpazz

Are you sure that Charlie's interest is in running a sat radio business or does he just want to get the sat + repeaters at a garage sale?


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## Steady Teddy

I'm glad I was only a monthly subscriber.


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## FogCutter

That's a good point. I was hoping Charlie would keep SIRI alive. There is a good chance someone will buy it after bankruptcy and keep the service going, something like Iridium but not if Charlie breaks it up for cheap parts.


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## Prince Oz

pigskins said:


> If (when) they go under, you may not be able to get refunds. Get out now!


I did get out but not for not being able to get a refund. I loved XM. I thought that when they merged is when it all went to hell. I do not remember hearing DJ's every 10 minutes when it was XM. Now I can hear the same song on the 80's channel 2 or 3 times a day.


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## Araxen

Sirius has gone way down hill since the merger. The music is so stale now and it seems like there alot more repeats than there ever was. I find myself listening my mp3 player, podcasts, internet streams alot more now than I ever have. The only time I listen is to listen to Stern anymore.

I'd be surprised if they make it through the quarter. The stock is at .06 today as I type this. You can't keep a company afloat when your stock is this low. Eventually the hole in the ship becomes to big to keep afloat.

If Charlie does buy them out I expect commercials to the music channels as soon as he takes control of the company. I'm surprised Sirius hasn't done it already.


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## Ken S

I don't think anyone is going to throw-away a business with nearly 20 million members paying $13+/month.

While the stock price is indicative of a problem...it doesn't affect day to day operations (unless they're selling shares).


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## mhayes70

Here is a pretty interesting article from CNN. They are thinking subscribers are safe. The company will continue to operate even if they file for bankruptcy.

http://money.cnn.com/2009/02/11/markets/thebuzz/index.htm?postversion=2009021113


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## apferrando

Italia said:


> I don't know about this. I think he's probably not bringing in many or even a few new subscribers. I think his fan base is already here. He's not out in the public that makes him attract new subscribers. That maybe the issue at this point. Stern is all about his money and the spot light. Obviously, Sirius XM has a lot to do to attract new subscribers. I think they need to look at each one of their personalities and ask "what have you done lately and what is your plan to attract new subscribers?". I think Stern's claim that he is the foundation of Sirius XM is starting to wear thin. He has a part to bring in new subscribers too if this company has any chance of surviving. But that might be difficult during this bad economic time.


Howard's claim that he is the foundation of Sirius is factual. The company barely existed until he came along and brought subscribers... enough to purchase XM who had a sizable lead in subscriber numbers. He's already paid for his contract several times over, as this company has a multi-billion dollar revenue stream with 20+ million subscribers. That's 2nd to only Comcast. Satellite radios problem is just like all of satellites problem, it costs a fortune to put satellites in the sky. Then on top of that, they are the ones that make all of their equipment. They are the ones subsidizing the free years to get it into cars. They are the ones paying for the creation of content, where cable/satellite TV just rebroadcasts. They are the ones paying for the upkeep. They are the ones paying the talent.

A bankruptcy at this point isn't a Circuit City Chapter 7 filing for liquidation.... Sirius' assets aren't tied to liquid items like televisions and computers... they own satellites, but their biggest asset is their subscriber base. A bankruptcy for them will be to restructure the debt, so that the interest payments on their loans come to an end with one fixed number to pay, which would almost move them into the black immediately. Stocks will come off the market for a period of time, then come back on trading well. So, here's your Wall Street tip of the day... buy stock now. It's a calculated risk at this point. If they do well, the creditors get only their interest and your stock can double. If it does poorly, your stock gets wiped out and you're out a nickel a share. If EchoStar acquires it, you get much higher valued stock in EchoStar to buy your shares out.


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## Richard King

> Stocks will come off the market for a period of time, then come back on trading well. So, here's your Wall Street tip of the day... buy stock now.


You're kidding, right? Normally under a Chapter 11 or Chapter 7 the stock holders disappear and all assets go to the bond and other debt holders. Eventually, new stock may be issued, but it will all go to the debt holders, not the stock holders from before the reorganization. Buying shares now would be very foolish unless you are speculating that there will be anything left for the shareholders. Since there are a pile of secured and unsecured debt holders in front of the shareholders in this case, the chances of the current shareholders (including me) getting ANYTHING after a Chapter 11 is about zero.



> If they do well, the creditors get only their interest and your stock can double.


 TOTALLY wrong. You have no understanding of what happens in a bankruptcy.


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## Richard King

More info on the process: http://www.sec.gov/investor/pubs/bankrupt.htm


> Note: Investors should be cautious when buying common stock of companies in Chapter 11 bankruptcy. It is extremely risky and is likely to lead to financial loss. *Although a company may emerge from bankruptcy as a viable entity, generally, the creditors and the bondholders become the new owners of the shares. In most instances, the company's plan of reorganization will cancel the existing equity shares. *This happens in bankruptcy cases because secured and unsecured creditors are paid from the company's assets before common stockholders. And in situations where shareholders do participate in the plan, their shares are usually subject to substantial dilution.


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## apferrando

Richard King said:


> You're kidding, right? Normally under a Chapter 11 or Chapter 7 the stock holders disappear and all assets go to the bond and other debt holders. Eventually, new stock may be issued, but it will all go to the debt holders, not the stock holders from before the reorganization. Buying shares now would be very foolish unless you are speculating that there will be anything left for the shareholders. Since there are a pile of secured and unsecured debt holders in front of the shareholders in this case, the chances of the current shareholders (including me) getting ANYTHING after a Chapter 11 is about zero.
> 
> TOTALLY wrong. You have no understanding of what happens in a bankruptcy.


Seriously, why waste your time with such a long post only to repeat exactly what I said...?

They aren't filing Chapter 7 (Liquidation). The stocks will not be taken UNLESS the creditors can't get interest payments, in which case they'll assume the stock instead as a means of repayment of debt. If it happens, it's a structured bankruptcy- and all stockholders and bondholders must approve any plans. Once the plan is approved, the company suspends dividends to stockholders and premiums to bond owners. The stock in a company filing Chapter 11 *may continue to trade*, however in many cases the stock will not meet the minimum requirements for listing on a major exchange.

And your little link you have has one key word that changes the nature of the meaning... "GENERALLY." This is a company with massive assets in its customers. This is a company with massive assets floating in geo-synchronous orbit around the earth and more going up. This is a company that posts billions of dollars of revenue, but interest payments have caught up to it. Which is exactly why I said it's a calculated *risk*... just like buying any penny share is.... in this case, it's as safe a bet as a penny share can get and will very likely emerge from a bankruptcy with all original stock in tact. You need to make the determination on if the company is viable after it emerges from bankruptcy, which this company, being the second largest entertainment subscription service in the country behind Comcast, is a very viable company.


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## Dolly

mhayes70 said:


> Here is a pretty interesting article from CNN. They are thinking subscribers are safe. The company will continue to operate even if they file for bankruptcy.
> 
> http://money.cnn.com/2009/02/11/markets/thebuzz/index.htm?postversion=2009021113


Well as a sub. that is about the best news I have heard. Still I feel very sorry for all the shareholders


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## Steve615

Stuart Sweet said:


> KNX-AM from Los Angeles reported this morning that a Chapter 11 filing is expected within days.


Here is another report,published yesterday by The NY Times.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/11/technology/companies/11radio.html?_r=2&partner=rss&emc=rss


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## Richard King

> They aren't filing Chapter 7 (Liquidation). The stocks will not be taken UNLESS the creditors can't get interest payments, in which case they'll assume the stock instead as a means of repayment of debt. If it happens, it's a structured bankruptcy- and all stockholders and bondholders must approve any plans. Once the plan is approved, the company suspends dividends to stockholders and premiums to bond owners. The stock in a company filing Chapter 11 may continue to trade, however in many cases the stock will not meet the minimum requirements for listing on a major exchange.


Wrong again. The creditors are owed return of PRINCIPLE *along *with past *interest *payments. Unless they find a way to pay off the principle as well as the interest the current stockholders (myself included) will get zip, even in a Chapter 11 filing. Right now they have no way to pay off the principle due later this month. That's why Echostar has been buying up that debt. They want to gain control through the debt, and, depending on how much of the debt they bought up, they just may accomplish that. Again, if this happens it is very likely the shareholders of the current stock will get nothing.


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## ibooksrule

I dont understand how some credit crunch makes people not want to have satellite radio it averages out to .43 cents a day. who cant afford .43 cents? 

I think people just make to much out of something. I read somewhere on a forum someone said they will never pay for satellite radio when they can get FM for free. Another person said satellite radio is like paying for satellite Tv when you can get tv channels for free over an antenna.

I also dont agree with this article that the younger generation are the ones not wanting satellite radio. I dont know to many older generation who would want it. Most of them either dont ever listen to the radio in the car or when they do its talk radio or something they would care less about such a variety of music.

I still say sirius should instead of going after the car companies they should talk to all the trucking companies. Who better to want sat radio then someone who is in a truck all day driving cross country.

Then again maybe Charlie will buy them and make it better. I doubt he wants the satellites that would mean rolling out new dishes again, getting permission from the FCC and so much more.

I think satellite radio could have done better if they would advertise more. Like i have said before i am always up to date on technology and i never heard of it really untill i bought a car with it. before that i had heard it in passing but nothing really about it other then just satellite radio not what you can get with it not what it was all about it.
I to thought why pay for radio i get for free. I did not understand till i saw a advertisement at the car dealer and read up on it and right away i was like i have to have this.

Also they need to get rid of howard. according to the article MR stern gets paid 100 Million a year. So if you do the math that means that they are upside down every year with him. Because it would take at $13 a month 13 million subscribers to pay for his 100 million a year pay day. So they would have to lose 13 million subscribers to say its worth keeping him on and even at that its only breaking even.
I know he may be popular but he is not that popular


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## cartrivision

max1 said:


> Thanks Wilbur that was depressing to read. Let's just hope Charlie can buy Sirius XM and save it.We need an alternative to Fm. But the problem is not too many people want to pay for radio. For now I just plan to listen to music on AOL Radio along with Sirius XM on E . I get Sirius XM through E now. Max.


Not too many people want to pay for radio?????? What are you talking about??? Sirius XM has more than 20 million paying subscribers. That makes them the second biggest subscriber based service in terms of number of subscribers, second only to Comcast. The revenue paid to Sirius XM from those 20 million subscribers is more than $2 billion per year. The problem is that despite that enormous amount of income from their huge base of subscribers, Sirius XM has billions of dollars of debt, with no small amount of it being due in the short term. If Sirius XM can get rid of a substantial amount of their debt under a Chapter 11 reorganization which would provide their debtors only a fraction of their investment (as opposed to pennies on the dollar if they go into Chapter 7 liquidation), Sirius XM could become very profitable. There is a reason that Charlie Ergan is interested in getting his hands on Sirius XM. He knows that without it's current debt load, it would be a license to print money.


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## cartrivision

max1 said:


> Only reason why we have 20 million subscribers is because of the merger but my point is valid people don't want to pay for radio especially now. I hope charlie takes over and gives it a shot-another set of bad news Sirius files for bankruptcy-click here for story


That makes no sense. The fact that there was a merger does nothing to negate or reduce the significance of the fact that there are more than 20 million satellite radio subscribers. More subscribers than DirecTV. More subscribers than DISH. More subscribers than every cable company except Comcast, and by a long long long shot, more subscribers than any internet based provider.

Contrary to your proclamations based on I don't know what, obviously a very significant number of people _are_ willing to pay for satellite radio.... and that's based on numbers from a business that is practically still in it's infancy.


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## olguy

ibooksrule said:


> I also dont agree with this article that the younger generation are the ones not wanting satellite radio. I dont know to many older generation who would want it. Most of them either dont ever listen to the radio in the car or when they do its talk radio or something they would care less about such a variety of music.


Well, this is an ol' pharte (71) that listens to satellite radio. Occasionally. I subscribed to XM last year when I put a Kenwood DNX8120 in-dash GPS dingus in my new car. I subscribed to get the traffic alerts for the GPS but did a full sub to try it out. I enjoyed it okay. Even listened to it online for a while. However, I prefer my iPod which plays through the Kenwood. I had been using a Sansa in my old car with the little FM transmitter but the Kenwood has a great iPod interface. So, I have most of my CDs on the iPod now and zero chatter. That's how I like it. I use iTunes on my computer to listen to music. And a docking station pumps it through my Onkyo when I want it. My wife, on the other hand loves her some Country Legends on FM here in Houston.

Oh yeah, I know a bunch of folks who get the senior discount at KFC that listen to satellite radio also. :lol:


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## spidey

I got Sirius for one reason NFL, got XM for music since Sirius music wasnt my favorite. Hoping something survives for both commercial free music and the NFL radio broadcasts


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## rudeney

The CNN article pretty much speaks common sense. Sirius XM isn't going to vanish, but it likely will change. One thing I wonder is how many subscribers would leave if they canned all the high-cost talent (Stern, Martha, sports leagues, etc.) Personally, this would not affect me because I never listen to that content. I have Sirius just for the commercial-free music. Our local radio stations are crap and it's also nice to be able to have uninterrupted music driving back and forth to the beach.


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## Richard King

I, currently, have XM. I also have an IPod with over 5,000 songs on it (oops, correction, 4715 songs). I never use the IPod in the car. I like to listen to music that I am not that familiar with, and XM provides that. If I hear something that I like, I will sometimes buy it. If I had the IPod as my only listening source I would be missing the chance to hear some good music that I would not be able to hear otherwise. I may have mentioned this a time or two before , but my favorite music channel is Underground Garage. This channel is like a history lesson in pop/rock music. I also am one who, on that channel, enjoys the DJs' input on the programming.


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## puckhead

ibooksrule said:


> Also they need to get rid of howard. according to the article MR stern gets paid 100 Million a year. So if you do the math that means that they are upside down every year with him. *Because it would take at $13 a month 13 million subscribers to pay for his 100 million a year pay day.* So they would have to lose 13 million subscribers to say its worth keeping him on and even at that its only breaking even.
> I know he may be popular but he is not that popular


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## ibooksrule

Ok Howard stern gets paid 100 Million a year to be on Sirius.
If he gets paid 100 million a year and Sirius is charging $13 a subscriber. It would take 13 million subscribers to pay the salary for stern. 
So it takes 13 million subscribers to pay for his pay check.


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## Boynton Beach Jets

ibooksrule said:


> Ok Howard stern gets paid 100 Million a year to be on Sirius.
> If he gets paid 100 million a year and Sirius is charging $13 a subscriber. It would take 13 million subscribers to pay the salary for stern.
> So it takes 13 million subscribers to pay for his pay check.


650,000 subscribers would more then pay Howards salary per year.

650,000x $13(monthly x 12 (months)= $101,400,000

XM/Sirius have over 20,000,000 listeners


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## ibooksrule

Your right i was trying to make it monthly not yearly. The thing is i think getting rid of him and martha would be good. It costs allot of money to have those people and i go back to my post earlier stating that how many of those subscribers would actually cancel if howard stern or martha left Sirius? or maybe they could do a weekly show rather then a dedicated channel.

They need more music channels with bigger play lists and they need to market to people who are on the road all the time truckers, traveling salesmen, and others who 1 can afford the .45 cents a day and 2 would benefit most from it.


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## Boynton Beach Jets

ibooksrule said:


> Your right i was trying to make it monthly not yearly. The thing is i think getting rid of him and martha would be good. It costs allot of money to have those people and i go back to my post earlier stating that how many of those subscribers would actually cancel if howard stern or martha left Sirius? or maybe they could do a weekly show rather then a dedicated channel.
> 
> They need more music channels with bigger play lists and they need to market to people who are on the road all the time truckers, traveling salesmen, and others who 1 can afford the .45 cents a day and 2 would benefit most from it.


I am not really a Howard listener but I think he more then justifies his salary, I bet more the 645,000 listener's would leave Sirius/XM if he left. I do agree XM/Sirius need to expand their play list.


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## rudeney

So the solution is to reformat the subscriptions so that people (like me) who just want the commercial-free music channels pay a little less, and people who want Howard, Martha, etc. pay more to add them as "premium channels". The cable and satellite TV industry has used this model for decades (i.e HBO, Showtime, sports channels). If people really want Howard, they can pay for him.


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## WERA689

I am an XM subscriber, and have been for about 6 years now. First, I couldn't care less about Howard Stern. As far as I'm concerned, he is the very epitome of what is wrong with radio in the first place...he occupies a place with Jerry Springer, Maury Povich, Rush Limbaugh, Neal Boortz and other sensationalistic garbage spewers that do not deserve a voice on the air--ANYONE'S air.

Second, I think that the merger has severely compromised the things that I loved about XM. The music is more repetitive, the DJ's are more annoying, the comedy channel (which I listened to almost exclusively) has been absolutely RUINED, and the product's overall value to me has been demeaned. The only thing I like about the changes is that I now get 'E Street Radio', which has taken over my 'most listened to' title.

I have been giving careful consideration to whether I wish to continue to subscribe, despite a significant investment in hardware: Polk XRT12 ($200), XM30 for my motorcycle/GPS ($200), XM mini-tuner and home dock for the living room Onkyo receiver ($120), XM/Alpine tuner module for my car radio ($100), and I've had and decommissioned several portable tuners over the years. I'd hate to just throw away all that investment, but doing so is becoming a distinct possibility for me.

I currently have 5 active radio subscriptions, which could not easily be consolidated. If my situation doesn't improve, that may have to be pared down to one, if that.


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## Richard King

Sirius XM To Reiterate Bankruptcy Potential On Tuesday
http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/djf500/200902131131DOWJONESDJONLINE000708_FORTUNE5.htm


> Sirius XM Radio Inc. (SIRI) reiterated Friday it may be forced to file for bankruptcy protection as early as Tuesday as the company continues refinancing talks for $175 million in bonds that mature Tuesday....
> 
> The Wall Street Journal reported Friday that Sirius XM has significantly narrowed the divide in talks with satellite mogul Charles Ergen over a deal to save itself from bankruptcy. But the country's sole satellite radio operator continues to discuss a rival offer from Liberty Media Corp., according to people familiar with the situation.
> 
> Ergen, who controls Dish Network Corp. (DISH) and EchoStar Corp. (SATS), began acquiring Sirius XM debt in the fall. He has offered to inject about $500 million into Sirius XM and restructure the debt he holds in the company in return for control. His offer is contingent on the successful renegotiation of about $600 million in Sirius bank loans and about $200 million in other debt.


More.... It appears that Charlie has the upper hand in this situation


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## djlong

Again, a lot of what he was paid was paid in STOCK, not cash.


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## cweave02

djlong said:


> Again, a lot of what he was paid was paid in STOCK, not cash.


Actually, it was bonds, not stock.

http://news.lp.findlaw.com/ap_stories/high_tech/1700/02-13-2009/20090213095012_13.html


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## cweave02

WERA689 - 

My sincerest condolences on your loss. Our furkids have a special place in our hearts and mind.

I agree with you on the programming issues since the merger. There is a LOT of repetition on the decades channels at least, and who wants to have to listen to the traffic and weather in Miami in order to get the Atlanta T&W?!?


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## cweave02

I picked XM over Sirius because of the golf. At least they have nt messed that up yet.


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## RD in Fla

Was an early adopter to XM, actually had my first radio installed the week the service was introduced. I became a Sirius subscriber when Howard left terrestrial radio and had both services for almost a year when I then canceled XM. If Sirius XM were to terminate Howard's contract I believe I would leave. I listen to NASCAR Radio and the NFL channel quite a bit but Howard is the reason I have Sirius. I have to believe that a large number of those 20 million subscribers have Sirius for the same reason that I do - to listen to channels 100 and 101.


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## RACJ2

cartrivision said:


> Not too many people want to pay for radio?????? What are you talking about??? Sirius XM has more than 20 million paying subscribers. That makes them the second biggest subscriber based service in terms of number of subscribers, second only to Comcast. The revenue paid to Sirius XM from those 20 million subscribers is more than $2 billion per year.


I think they have reached a point that they have found most everyone that is willing to pay for their content. The way I started with XM originally was to get 3 months free when I bought my car. I didn't think it was worth the cost. When I threatened to cancel, they would give me deals that were much lower then the normal rates.

I think they need to find a way to get a larger portion of their revenue from advertisers, like traditional radio does. That way they can lower the subscription cost. I honestly didn't listen to it enough to want to pay more the a couple dollars a month to have it. My main use while I had it was when I traveled great distances in my car and couldn't pick up a good local station in an area. It was handy for that, but I could listen to a CD instead. The other issue is the sound quality is just average, my local stations sound better.


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## djlong

No, they haven't found everyone. Their subscription numbers are still growing - just much smaller because of reduced auto sales.

Now, if you made the comment that they've found just about everyone who would walk into a Best Buy and become a *new* subscriber (as opposed to replacing an old radio with a new one) you might have something there.


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## full moon

djlong said:


> No, they haven't found everyone. Their subscription numbers are still growing - just much smaller because of reduced auto sales.
> 
> Now, if you made the comment that they've found just about everyone who would walk into a Best Buy and become a *new* subscriber (as opposed to replacing an old radio with a new one) you might have something there.


The numbers are on a steep decline...


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## Dolly

I have this in another thread, but I also wanted to post it here to make sure everyone sees it. http://siriusbuzz.com/sirius-xm-to-avoid-chapter-11.php


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## mreposter

This article at CBS Marketwatch has a good analysis of why both E* and D* would be interested in SXM. http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/why-satellite-tv-moguls-see-value/story.aspx?guid=%7B54E73038-0285-4D2A-A05D-C7CDD8A6B1DA%7D


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## Dolly

mreposter said:


> This article at CBS Marketwatch has a good analysis of why both E* and D* would be interested in SXM. http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/why-satellite-tv-moguls-see-value/story.aspx?guid=%7B54E73038-0285-4D2A-A05D-C7CDD8A6B1DA%7D


Sadly I could never get your link to work for me  And I really wanted to read that because I really don't understand why Charlie wants Sirius XM so badly nor why Malone seems interested in trying to stop him. I believe since it was a story on marketwatch it could have already been moved and that is why it won't show up for me now


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## scr

Dolly said:


> Sadly I could never get your link to work for me  And I really wanted to read that because I really don't understand why Charlie wants Sirius XM so badly nor why Malone seems interested in trying to stop him. I believe since it was a story on marketwatch it could have already been moved and that is why it won't show up for me now


The link still works, I just tried it: http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/why-satellite-tv-moguls-see-value/story.aspx?guid=%7B54E73038-0285-4D2A-A05D-C7CDD8A6B1DA%7D


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## Dolly

scr said:


> The link still works, I just tried it: http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/why-satellite-tv-moguls-see-value/story.aspx?guid=%7B54E73038-0285-4D2A-A05D-C7CDD8A6B1DA%7D


When I click on the link all I get is a blank white screen


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## djlong

Fullmoon: What numbers are declining? The *subscriber* numbers are increasing. There were 15 million in mid 2007, 19 million by the end of last year and are about to go over 20 million.

The GROWTH RATE has tanked, this is true... But given what kind of economy we're in, it's nothing short of amazing that satellite radio's subscriber numbers are *increasing*. Of course, that may just be an indictment of how bad terrestrial radio is.


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## koji68

Dolly said:


> When I click on the link all I get is a blank white screen


It worked here. Must be something with your browser.


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## Richard King

Worked fer me too.. 
I liked this line from the link



> Hodges bought his position in what was then XM Satellite when the stock was at $12, only to find Sirius XM trading at 11 cents Friday.
> 
> "I hope somebody does come in and take it away from [Chairman Mel] Karmazin, because he obviously doesn't know what he's doing," Hodges said.


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## mreposter

There were several other important points in the article including:
- SXM was badly hurt by the over 1 year it took to get the gov't to approve the merger
- SXM is sitting on a mountain of debt, now there aren't any banks willing/able to refinance it
- New car sales are falling like a rock, driving down new subscriber counts


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## Lord Vader

Nick said:


> *Krispy Kreme* -- Well that's it! I'm outta here!


What the hell happened to them? There used to be 3 of their stores within 4 miles of my place (Chicago west suburbs). They have all been closed within the last 12 months.

No one comes close to their original glazed donuts hot off the presses!


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## paja

Lord Vader said:


> What the hell happened to them? There used to be 3 of their stores within 4 miles of my place (Chicago west suburbs). They have all been closed within the last 12 months.
> 
> No one comes close to their original glazed donuts hot off the presses!


I'm fortunate that I occasionally pass the Krispy Kreme on Harlem just south of Archer. So I'm enjoying one from time to time


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## Lord Vader

They have but a few left in the Chicago area, and none close to Naperville.


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## firefighter4evr

Lord Vader said:


> They have but a few left in the Chicago area, and none close to Naperville.


They are " Delivered fresh daily" at almost any major gas n go store here in south central PA:hurah:


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## Lord Vader

A lot of good that does ME!


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## Dolly

Richard King said:


> Worked fer me too..
> I liked this line from the link


Well I had to look up the story on Marketwatch and read it that way. And I hate to tell the poor guy you quoted, but from stories I have read Charlie told Mel he could still run the company. But I personally don't think that relationship would last long.


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## Richard King

http://www.reuters.com/article/busi...20090216?feedType=nl&feedName=usbeforethebell
*Sirius creditors threaten to oust CEO*


> (Reuters) - A group of Sirius XM Radio Inc creditors will seek to remove Chief Executive Mel Karmazin if the company chooses a bankruptcy filing over a deal with an investor that would let it stay solvent, the Wall Street Journal said.
> 
> "Creditors will act quickly and definitively if they perceive that management is (not) acting ... in the best interest of the estate," the paper quoted Edward Weisfelner, a partner with Brown Rudnick LLP - the law firm representing the creditor group - as saying.


More.....


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## rnbmusicfan

ibooksrule said:


> I dont understand how some credit crunch makes people not want to have satellite radio it averages out to .43 cents a day. who cant afford .43 cents?
> 
> I think people just make to much out of something. I read somewhere on a forum someone said they will never pay for satellite radio when they can get FM for free. Another person said satellite radio is like paying for satellite Tv when you can get tv channels for free over an antenna.
> 
> I also dont agree with this article that the younger generation are the ones not wanting satellite radio. I dont know to many older generation who would want it. Most of them either dont ever listen to the radio in the car or when they do its talk radio or something they would care less about such a variety of music.
> 
> I still say sirius should instead of going after the car companies they should talk to all the trucking companies. Who better to want sat radio then someone who is in a truck all day driving cross country.
> 
> Then again maybe Charlie will buy them and make it better. I doubt he wants the satellites that would mean rolling out new dishes again, getting permission from the FCC and so much more.
> 
> I think satellite radio could have done better if they would advertise more. Like i have said before i am always up to date on technology and i never heard of it really untill i bought a car with it. before that i had heard it in passing but nothing really about it other then just satellite radio not what you can get with it not what it was all about it.
> I to thought why pay for radio i get for free. I did not understand till i saw a advertisement at the car dealer and read up on it and right away i was like i have to have this.
> 
> Also they need to get rid of howard. according to the article MR stern gets paid 100 Million a year. So if you do the math that means that they are upside down every year with him. Because it would take at $13 a month 13 million subscribers to pay for his 100 million a year pay day. So they would have to lose 13 million subscribers to say its worth keeping him on and even at that its only breaking even.
> I know he may be popular but he is not that popular


A year back I wanted to get sat radio. I commute about 50 mins everyday (20 mins in stop and go traffic light area and its ghetto...in the cold winter it sucks...and FM I agree doesn't offer much variety while I'm stuck behind a red light) but the startup costs to put it in my car where somewhat high. I know a lot of the new cars have it built in, but my old Toyota is running fine and I have no need to get a new car at this point. Thank the Japanese for setting the standard high for cars, as certain cars don't need to be replaced, which is affecting new car sales and our economy.

Anyways, while I didn't mind paying a monthly fee, and it would have been a nice thing, I decided to hold off.

I think in general, it ranks lower in the priority list to 
cell phone service
high speed internet
(these two somewhat required for job searching/job interviewing)
occasional DVD/movie theater going
spending discretionary income on time with friends/family
landline phone service
basic cable

Also, for city dwellers that take public transportation or walk to work, I'm guessing there isn't great demand for satellite pay radio.


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## ibooksrule

Expensive to start up? you can get a radio for less then $50 i have seen cheap ones for less then $20. Thats not much startup cost in my book.


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## krock918316

I got my XM unit at Sams Club for $24.......... not much start up cost there.


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## Dolly

Richard King said:


> http://www.reuters.com/article/busi...20090216?feedType=nl&feedName=usbeforethebell
> *Sirius creditors threaten to oust CEO*
> More.....


To repeat my message from another thread--I was watching a business news show and scrolling across the bottom of my TV screen was the information credited from the Wall Street Journal that said Liberty and Sirius XM were close to a deal. May be the information Mr. King posted was what FINALLY got Mel to make up his mind  I mean it was not like Mel had a boat load of choices available to him. And it was Mel that called Malone for help in the first place


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## Richard King

> May be the information Mr. King posted was what FINALLY got Mel to make up his mind


Actually, he called me and asked what he should do.


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## ercjncprdtv

Actually, IMHO, whoever takes over Sirius XM will turn it into a muzak type company to deliver muzak-type channels to their sat tv service. All the uniqueness of sat radio will be gone


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## Richard King

They already have a commercial service with a limited selection of channels available in competition with Muzak.


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## Dolly

Richard King said:


> They already have a commercial service with a limited selection of channels available in competition with Muzak.


Well Muzak has recently gone belly up. However, Sirius XM lives  The news came out on a morning business show around 8 o'clock. And Mr. King and other shareholders will be happy to know that the stock started moving up even before the Market opened up :sunsmile: And now I can hope that I can at least get my money's worth out of a lifetime sub. The TV show kept scrolling across the screen that a deal was close between Liberty and Sirius XM and finally they said the deal had been done :hurah:


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## Stuart Sweet

Let's corral all the ongoing discussion here:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=152567


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