# walk behind trencher



## Nabisco (May 18, 2007)

well i have thought about this b 4 and came across and just imagine how well i could boost production on myself and get stuff done quicker with out going down to deep and saving my back also doesnt look to big! any body have experience with a walk behind trencher??

http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=EATPK


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## tgater (Jul 24, 2007)

I don’t know, $1600 for the Edge Artist, $400 for this attachment and about another $150 in shipping leaves your pocket $2150 lighter and not to mention it only goes down 3 and one half inches (not deep enough by NEC code). If a customer will never complain that you didn’t bury the cable deep enough and you were going to use it at least once a week sounds like something the boss might want to consider. Otherwise it seems like it would be more cost effective to rent one when needed.


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## Scott Kocourek (Jun 13, 2009)

I would be surprised if it worked very well. I have used trenchers much larger than that and rocks ever small ones would beat you and the machine up. This really looks like a toy that a homeowner would own not a money maker.


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

What do you want to pay?

Just a quick glance found this:

http://www.trenchnedge.com/irrtren.html

Although primarily for irrigation, they also mention landscape lighting wiring and cable/satellite. Says this model will dig 12" deep and the landscape model will go 6". Both will spill out onto a tarp to aid clean-up.

Can't find much pricing on new machines (probably have to call or find a dealer), but there's a used one on CL for $1500.


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## brant (Jul 6, 2008)

i have a question for you guys that do trenching; 

as an EC, we never use a trencher without a dig ticket (call the 800# and have locates done on the area). 

I realize your business is day-to-day and you probably can't go ahead of time to mark out the trench path and wait 7-10 days for the utilities to clear it, so what are your thoughts on liability without a dig permit?

i suspect if you're having to get a trencher, you're planning on going a good distance across someone's yard. 

its surprising to find in some neighborhoods just where the gas/phone/cable tv lines run; they're not always by the street. And I know guys that have hit primaries at less than 6" due to utility contractor laziness. 

i was on a job a couple of years ago and the landscape crew running sprinkler lines hit a 100 pair trunkline around 12". Took the phone company a solid week to fix it; they setup a large tent over the hole with two guys inside working non-stop. 

In my state, the fine is up to $10k plus the cost of repairs. 

Its just something to consider if you plan on using a trencher. Its a lot easier to feel something in the dirt with a shovel.


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## kenglish (Oct 2, 2004)

Blue Stakes requires only two working days' notice. After that, it's not your fault.
(Emergencies are exempt from waiting more than a couple of hours...outage restoration or a place without water or gas service.)


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## Nabisco (May 18, 2007)

kenglish said:


> Blue Stakes requires only two working days' notice. After that, it's not your fault.
> (Emergencies are exempt from waiting more than a couple of hours...outage restoration or a place without water or gas service.)


whats blue stakes??


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## brant (Jul 6, 2008)

jdogg said:


> whats blue stakes??


same question here.

in my state, no matter what you're doing, you are required to give the utilities 10 days to do their locate.

we get a list of each utility called, and can check when each of them have signed off.

usually it takes no more than 3 days, but sometimes up to 7.



kenglish said:


> (Emergencies are exempt from waiting more than a couple of hours...outage restoration or a place without water or gas service.)


Sounds odd; I would think if you're working in an area w/ utility problems, they wouldn't want you touching a thing until all locates have been done. I personally wouldn't even consider putting a trowel in the ground until I know the gas company has marked the lines.


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

I'm guessing it's their version of Miss Dig.


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## Nabisco (May 18, 2007)

well the trencher i picked up today is MAYBE a four incher... there shouldnt b a thing except a old rg96 wire, most people know if they have any wires back there. i was thinking of offering to come back after the stuff is marked and make a few extra dollars putting the wire in the ground, a lot of country houses have that damn drive way that is in the way but that isnt a problem for me, now my concern is if they ***** about something.... like they swear nothing is there so i dig the line and hit a old phone wire is there a waiver that i can make up that they cant hold me responsible? i think that that should be chargeable if im coming backing trenching 35+ feet with plastic pipe, cant i do that on the side, like come back over the weekend after everything is marked. i could see my contractor getting pissed if i did it on the clock but if im coming back on my own time and gas its my own business


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## Nabisco (May 18, 2007)

not like side great money making business, but what i do at home off hours is my own problem


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## brant (Jul 6, 2008)

jdogg said:


> well the trencher i picked up today is MAYBE a four incher... there shouldnt b a thing except a old rg96 wire, most people know if they have any wires back there.


it's not the customer's wiring you should be worried about; its utility wiring that can cost you big bucks.

in one particular town i've worked in, the cable co failed on several occasions to mark underground locations away from the street. they would get them by the street, but miss the stray RG11's running between properties to catch the next street over. I hit at least a dozen of them; but i always had a dig ticket so i was never liable.

i know another contractor that hit a 7.2kv primary that was 6" deep, which is insane, but i'm only mentioning it to point out you never know what's down there. thankfully they were using a backhoe and not pulling a trencher. it blew the teeth off the bucket.



jdogg said:


> i was thinking of offering to come back after the stuff is marked and make a few extra dollars putting the wire in the ground, . . . . .


what you're talking about is pretty typical of any cable or phone company installation. when the phone company came to connect my service, they left the wire on top of the ground, called in a locate, and a week later once everything was marked they came back and trenched it in. i see cable companies do this all the time also.



jdogg said:


> now my concern is if they ***** about something.... like they swear nothing is there so i dig the line and hit a old phone wire is there a waiver that i can make up that they cant hold me responsible?


that's definitely something to be concerned about, and you should absolutely have something in writing absolving your liability for anything the customer cannot locate for you. we have a waiver worded into our contract. you should get a local attorney to handle the wording for you and have a printer make up some copies. we have it printed on the back side of our invoice triplicates that the customer signs before any work begins. i've hit numerous sprinkler lines over the years that the customer did not know the exact location of; we always try to be careful on direct lines between the sprinker heads, but for some reason i find they don't always take a straight line from point A to B.


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## Nabisco (May 18, 2007)

yea valid point i see some jacked up crap for sure, are there any classes on how to read what the locaters flag? Thanks for the reminder man!!
around here u can wait 6 months to have something buried! if i have a waver can it just be one that says they release me from liability or should i have a lawyer make something up?


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

_are there any classes on how to read what the locaters flag?_

Nothing to learn or read. If there's a flag, you don't dig. If you MUST dig near a flag, do it by hand CAREFULLY. No machines.

Most flags will have the name of the utility (ie. Bell South) or type of service (ie. telephone) which should give you some idea of the depth. Water lines will be deeper than the frost line. Telephone, cable or electric might be more shallow.


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## Scott Kocourek (Jun 13, 2009)

Depending on where you are the are specific guidelines for digging around utilities for example in Wisconsin you need to hand dig for utilities when you get to within 18" of the flag/painted line. Once you have the utility visible you can use power equipment to within a foot ot the utility. Here we use Diggers Hotline, it's called by other names in other states, find out who to call, visit their website and read their rules carefully, if you ever hit anything especially if it is mis-located (it does happen) set a tape measure on the ground and take pictures as proof. (unless it's blowing gas or live power)

The first thing I would do is call my insurance company and let them know you are now in the business of trenching, this will likely be in another class of insurance for which you are not likely covered for. Hitting a gas line/main or a fiber optic cable can severly cripple a small business. 

Good Luck.


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## Scott Kocourek (Jun 13, 2009)

jdogg said:


> if i have a waver can it just be one that says they release me from liability or should i have a lawyer make something up?


No, the person that owns/runs the equipment would be help liable. If you pull the trencher behind a vehicle that is owned by the company you work for or on a vehicle with their name on it they will likely be named in any potential claim for damages. You just cannot dig without utility locates just because the homeowner says there is nothing buried.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

jdogg said:


> yea valid point i see some jacked up crap for sure, are there any classes on how to read what the locaters flag? Thanks for the reminder man!!
> around here u can wait 6 months to have something buried! if i have a waver can it just be one that says they release me from liability or should i have a lawyer make something up?


In NJ we've always followed the rule that you must install conduit or wiring below the frost line. That's 18 inches deep here. All our utilities are below the frost line. I've installed a lot of conduit below ground and we always went at least 18 inches deep. Trenchers never make a wide enough trench unless you're just gonna drop the wiring in the hole and that's not the best or right way to do it. Always used a backhoe. Trenchers that go that deep are kinda expensive even to rent. We also used ground penetrating radar units, when they finally became available, that would show any piping in the general area.

In residences, if we call the utility companies they always respond quickly and paint blue or yellow lines on our curbs. Never takes more than a day to get that done.

Rich


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