# HR20 Closed Captioning issues



## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

In the hopes that DirecTV is monitoring this forum and sees this, I wanted to give a round-up of the Closed Captioning problems I'm still having on the HR20.

*** Cut off words and/or letters.
*** Poor timing for release of previous line of dialogue (the text disappears or scolls off too quickly)
* Double spaced text on some "live" captioning (one line of text isn't directly under the previous one, and the above line disappears too quickly to read).
* Some characters, like £ (British pound symbol) don't show up (they do on my normal TV's CC, so I know they're missing from shows which use them.
* CC disappears when a menu comes up or the scan bar comes up in FFx1.
* CC garbled sometimes, or remnants from another channel's CC text left on screen after changing channels

I really want to make this box my main box once OTA is enabled, but these CC issues not fixed will not only keep me from doing so, they'll keep me from getting more HR20s.


----------



## fdeitz (Sep 23, 2006)

I've seen all the things mentioned above too. 

On the Washington DC local HD channels, most of the time the CC is so garbled as to be unintelligible. I suppose this isn't really a problem with the HR20 itself though but somehow in the way D* is getting the feeds. I do know that people who can get the OTA HD broadcast tell me that the CC is fine on it. 

I have found that some of the fonts or sizes seem to result more often in cut off letters (or letters being cut in half). This is definitely an HR20 problem, as letting my TV decode the CC never results in letters being cut in half.

Another problem I frequently see is the text starts overwriting the existing text on the same line without clearing it first (or maybe advancing that line to the line above).


----------



## mikeny (Aug 21, 2006)

Yes. Same here with CBS NY HD mpeg-4. It's *consistently garbled and unintelligible* while the CBS E (NY) mpeg-2 seems fine.

NBC NY HD mpeg-4 is inconsistently garbled as is NBC HD E (NY) mpeg-2 (don't see Spanglish anymore though).

FOX NY HD mpeg-4 has *no CC* while FOX HD E (NY) mpeg-2 does and it seems OK but delayed.

Neither ABC NY HD mpeg-4 nor ABC HD E (NY) mpeg-2 has CC at all.

That's my NY HD major network CC roundup.


----------



## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

I don't have any MPEG4 channels yet, so all my negative CC experiences are on normal SD and HD MPEG2 channels.


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I've had all the above issues and more. Sometimes the type has a black bar behind it, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes it is so far out of sync (even more than what I've been used to). 

There's also some crankiness over at my household that it's so hard to control (compared to the TV, which puts it up automatically when you mute). 

All the issues would be completely resolved if CC info were passed to the TV over HDMI. I've heard others say that it is sent over component. If I could use my TV as the CC decoder, I would consider the issue closed. 

Granted, component is probably identical in quality to HDMI in my case, but I like the 1-cable solution and paid a lot for that cable. I want to use it.


----------



## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

Mine is componant and CC is not passed over. It is via RCA, but not componant.


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Capmeister said:


> Mine is componant and CC is not passed over. It is via RCA, but not componant.


My mistake, thanks for clearing that up. So basically, it's CC or HD, right? Rotten choice.

Is there anyone out there with more understanding of why it would be so hard to put the CC data into an HDMI or component stream? I have to presume that if it were easy, it would have been done sooner.


----------



## mikeny (Aug 21, 2006)

one other note...

For translucent/transparent/opaque settings: They all look identical for panel and text.


----------



## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

I really hope these issues are addressed soon. It's becoming somewhat frustrating.


----------



## 38STAR (Oct 14, 2006)

My biggest problem with CC is that the procedure for turning it on and off requires so many steps. Why do they bury it at the end of a "tree" rather than just having a button on the remote for turning it on and off?? I don't want it on all the time and sometimes it's in the way, so I change it often.


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

The "theory" listed in one of the other posts is that they know it's wonky and want to discourage people using it. I wish it were easier to turn on too but again, I'd rather just see it passed to the TV.


----------



## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

I don't know that it can be passed on to a TV that's merely HD-READY and isn't an HD tv. The CC decoder follows the tuner, I'd imagine, and SD CC and HD CC are two different animals. If the TV doesn't have an HD tuner, would it have the HD CC decoder? I'd think not.


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Ok, but what if it were an HDTV, in other words, a monitor with included ATSC tuner? My current TV will show CC on OTA broadcasts (antenna directly into the TV) but not on D* programming.


----------



## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

If they could figure a way to pass it, that might work.


----------



## Stevesdigi (Sep 19, 2006)

lamontcranston said:


> The "theory" listed in one of the other posts is that they know it's wonky and want to discourage people using it. I wish it were easier to turn on too but again, I'd rather just see it passed to the TV.


Great answer... I'll be sure to tell my deaf friends... oh right, they can't hear me


----------



## mikeny (Aug 21, 2006)

mikeny said:


> Yes. Same here with CBS NY HD mpeg-4. It's *consistently garbled and unintelligible* while the CBS E (NY) mpeg-2 seems fine.
> 
> NBC NY HD mpeg-4 is inconsistently garbled as is NBC HD E (NY) mpeg-2 (don't see Spanglish anymore though).
> 
> ...


update:

ABC HD E (NY) mpeg-2 is transmitting captions again!! (at least they were on last night)

NBC NY mpeg-4 HD seems better also.

All other details as I quoted remain the same.


----------



## JokerStick (Oct 22, 2006)

This is a big issue around here. My three kids are all hard-of-hearing, worst case being 20% of normal hearing. It's difficult to use, and works only part of the time, which has been well documented.

Wish there was a shortcut button, similar to holding down 30-sec jump and it goes to the end. Something like....hold down Mute for 3 sec, and CC turns on. I haven't counted, but I'll be it's about 15 keys through the menu system to turn it off/on now.

Wish it would also pass through to the TV, as others have suggested. This worked just fine on other DTV boxes in the past.


----------



## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

I emailed DirecTV about this issue. They emailed me back how to turn CC off if I want, as if this will help my deaf brother.


----------



## mikeny (Aug 21, 2006)

Capmeister,

I've seen some behavior as you've described with the ABC HD East captions on the HR20. They are finally back which is great but they seem to imitate subliminal messages at times, with 1 word to a sentence flashing VERY fast, missing lines in between and other general inconsistencies.


----------



## DishDog (Nov 10, 2006)

I was able to restore CC functioning using a tip from the forum. I toggled CC on and off half a dozen times and it began displaying again. It went out about the same time OXeb was downloaded and I just got it back last night. Thanks guys!


----------



## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

mikeny said:


> Capmeister,
> 
> I've seen some behavior as you've described with the ABC HD East captions on the HR20. They are finally back which is great but they seem to imitate subliminal messages at times, with 1 word to a sentence flashing VERY fast, missing lines in between and other general inconsistencies.


I don't have any MPEG4 on my HR20, and the closed captioning is NOT ready for prime time. The problems with the HR20's closed captioning are due to coding problems of the decoder, not the signals, since passing the signal through to a TV's decoder gives FLAWLESS closed captioning.

DirecTV needs to be working on this issue rather.


----------



## frederic1943 (Dec 2, 2006)

I've got the HR20 hooked up with component cables, an HR10-250 hooked up with HDMI and OTA into the HR10 and direct to the TV. TV is a 37" Olevia with built in ATSC tuner

Most channels work allright with some occasional sync problems.
I've noticed that the CC on MSNBC channel 356 & FOX news channel 360 flashes by too fast to read on the HR20
My MPEG-4 NBC channel has garbled words in the CC most of the time.
My MPEG-4 FOX channel has no CC at all with the HR20.
The CC is fine on NBC & FOX on the SD feed with the HR20.

With OTA-HD and satellite SD & MPEG-2 HD on my HR-10 the CC is fine on all channels.

With OTA-HD and SD direct to the TV the CC is fine on all channels


----------



## frederic1943 (Dec 2, 2006)

I wrote to DTV support about no CC on the MPEG-4 and got this reply.  

"Thank you for writing. I am sorry to hear about the problems you are experiencing with the closed captioning on the HD FOX channel. Closed captioning is broadcasted in HD and in SD when available. If the closed captioning is not broadcasting for the HD or SD channel then you will not see it. Sometimes it can only broadcast for one feed."


----------



## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

frederic1943 said:


> I wrote to DTV support about no CC on the MPEG-4 and got this reply.
> 
> "Thank you for writing. I am sorry to hear about the problems you are experiencing with the closed captioning on the HD FOX channel. Closed captioning is broadcasted in HD and in SD when available. If the closed captioning is not broadcasting for the HD or SD channel then you will not see it. Sometimes it can only broadcast for one feed."


Welcome to the forums. :welcome_s

Obviously you wrote a question that was articulate and easy to understand, cuz they didn't read it at all, did they? 

You might try again; try calling and going to tech support; or even contacting the local station--not to have them fix something, but to put pressure on D* (if you get a sympathetic person at the local station willing to help.)

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

Frederic, if you watch a lot of Fox HD, primetime, do you find the CC out of synch?


----------



## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

frederic1943 said:


> I've got the HR20 hooked up with component cables, an HR10-250 hooked up with HDMI and OTA into the HR10 and direct to the TV. TV is a 37" Olevia with built in ATSC tuner
> 
> Most channels work allright with some occasional sync problems.
> I've noticed that the CC on MSNBC channel 356 & FOX news channel 360 flashes by too fast to read on the HR20
> ...


MSNBC CC is unusable...I've never seen this particular problem before (I have watched CC on MSNBC with the latest firmware before and it wasn't like this):

Flash and scroll...the data appears from BEHIND the (who's talking) overlay and is surely less than 0.1 seconds per line...and misses a lot of the conversation.

It is just awful. So if D* has done something (outside the HR20....and it must be because the firmware is the same as the last time I watched CC) on their source end, it has really made things much, much worse.

Absolute rubbish as far as CC is concerned.

Some more testing (immediatley following what I typed above:

Now on commercial and the CC is normal speed and easy to read, didn't skip anything.

2nd commercial...no CC on this one.

3rd commercial, CC back on and while a bit fast, it is quite readable and not skipping....ooopss, just saw some phrases skipped.

Back to regular programming:

first 15 sec, no CC

Back to blindingly fast flashes of text from behind the "Hillary Overated" banner....yep back to pure rubbish.

So...they need more work on the head end, and who knows, maybe the next update will help.

It is important to note that the CC is not solely a function of the HR20 firmware...the firmware has not changed in a while, and how CC is behaving at the moment is totally different than when I first checked it with this most recent update FA. They must have changed something at D*.


----------



## frederic1943 (Dec 2, 2006)

Today, Saturday Dec. 2, there's no CC on any HD or SD channel with the HR20. I checked my settings and they haven't changed.
The CC is still OK on the HR10.

After I finish my recording I'll do a reset and see If that helps


----------



## frederic1943 (Dec 2, 2006)

OK, I did a reset from the menu and the CC works again. Even the Fox-News channel 360 is good. I checked the movie I recorded and the CC worked on that even though when I was recording the CC was missing from the broadcast.


----------



## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

Sometimes I have to do a redbutton reset to get CC to work. It's rare, but does happen. It's not a problem with recording, but with playback, yeah.


----------



## frederic1943 (Dec 2, 2006)

Capmeister said:


> Frederic, if you watch a lot of Fox HD, primetime, do you find the CC out of synch?


No I watch Fox HD OTA and the CC is in synch except on live broadcasts like football games.


----------



## DeafVegas (Dec 4, 2006)

I am deaf. I just purchased Panasonic TH-42PX600U. I understand that the HDMI will NOT work with closed captioned. I am waiting for the D* guys to come over and set up D* HD box Will the HDMI cable connects from TV to D* HD work with CC? I am just concerned about CC and HDMI. Your feedback would be greatly appreicated.

Thanks so much!


----------



## mikeny (Aug 21, 2006)

DeafVegas said:


> I am deaf. I just purchased Panasonic TH-42PX600U. I understand that the HDMI will NOT work with closed captioned. I am waiting for the D* guys to come over and set up D* HD box Will the HDMI cable connects from TV to D* HD work with CC? I am just concerned about CC and HDMI. Your feedback would be greatly appreicated.
> 
> Thanks so much!


It works over HDMI. You have to enable the HR20 captions though and honestly, the box's CC functioning, currently leave a lot to be desired. Sometimes they are OK and not others. It depends on the channel, and the show.


----------



## DeafVegas (Dec 4, 2006)

mikeny said:


> It works over HDMI. You have to enable the HR20 captions though and honestly, the box's CC functioning, currently leave a lot to be desired. Sometimes they are OK and not others. It depends on the channel, and the show.


I have D* DVR R10. I am not sure if they're going to take it away and put D* HD in...


----------



## DeafVegas (Dec 4, 2006)

According to the Panasonic Manual TH-42PX600U...It stated that "The closed caption is not displayed when you use HDMI connection.". Not sure what that means...Any idea? I am just concerned about that particular statement...


----------



## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

DeafVegas said:


> According to the Panasonic Manual TH-42PX600U...It stated that "The closed caption is not displayed when you use HDMI connection.". Not sure what that means...Any idea? I am just concerned about that particular statement...


When you connect via the HDMI port, the CC coding isn't going to flow through. It's not unusual. You need a receiver which decodes CC on its own and sends it to the screen as part of the picture being displayed. My HR10-250 does this perfectly. The HR20 does this as well, it's just still a bit glitchy. They have a team working on it though and I expect it to keep improving.

My brother is deaf and this is an important feature. I can't 'terp television without my arms getting tired.


----------



## DeafVegas (Dec 4, 2006)

Capmeister said:


> When you connect via the HDMI port, the CC coding isn't going to flow through. It's not unusual. You need a receiver which decodes CC on its own and sends it to the screen as part of the picture being displayed. My HR10-250 does this perfectly. The HR20 does this as well, it's just still a bit glitchy. They have a team working on it though and I expect it to keep improving.
> 
> My brother is deaf and this is an important feature. I can't 'terp television without my arms getting tired.


Aahh. Thanks for the clarification. I'll let you know what happens when the D* guys come over this Wed and hook it up with D* HD..

thanks!


----------



## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

Good luck! And :welcome_s 

Let us know what happens!


----------



## jbwitt (Dec 5, 2006)

My wife is deaf so she relies on CC 100%. After we got the HR20 installed she pretty much can't watch TV in the living room any more. We're seeing all the above problems, but I can't see any consistency. It doesn't seem to work WELL for any channel (SD or HD) but the mpeg-4 locals are the worst. I haven't seen a HD broadcast on a local station with a legible caption yet. Nor have I seen a live broadcast with CC on any station. And I still have my OTA HD hooked up so I know the captions are there. Is there some way to pass the SD CC signal on to the TV through component? I hope this gets some attention soon.


----------



## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

jbwitt said:


> My wife is deaf so she relies on CC 100%. After we got the HR20 installed she pretty much can't watch TV in the living room any more. We're seeing all the above problems, but I can't see any consistency. It doesn't seem to work WELL for any channel (SD or HD) but the mpeg-4 locals are the worst. I haven't seen a HD broadcast on a local station with a legible caption yet. Nor have I seen a live broadcast with CC on any station. And I still have my OTA HD hooked up so I know the captions are there. Is there some way to pass the SD CC signal on to the TV through component? I hope this gets some attention soon.


I know they're working on it, and perhaps the next software push will address the problems.

Only passing through to composite (svideo or RCA cables) will pass CC through.


----------



## DeafVegas (Dec 4, 2006)

Capmeister said:


> I know they're working on it, and perhaps the next software push will address the problems.
> 
> Only passing through to composite (svideo or RCA cables) will pass CC through.


I think Component video is really great job passing 720p and 1080i high definition. S-Video and composite will only pass 480i. I am not sure if Component video will work with CC on a HDTV....What do u think???


----------



## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

DeafVegas said:


> I think Component video is really great job passing 720p and 1080i high definition. S-Video and composite will only pass 480i. I am not sure if Component video will work with CC on a HDTV....What do u think???


It depends on the TV. If you have the component inputs on the back, it will work, but I don't think the HR20 will pass through the closed captioning. Other units might. I know it doesn't on the HR10-250.

Most channels are still SD and so if you have output going (and all outputs are active at the same time) to your TV via RCA jacks on another input, you can switch to that for SD shows and CC will pass through.

As for HD shows via the box... you'll have to wait for CC to be fixed. I hope it is soon. It has worked for the most part for me, at least on SD channels, but FoxNews sometimes messes up, yes. It has been frustrating.

It is my hope that the next software release (which might enable OTA digital access via antenna and so perhaps better CC on HD local channels) will also have some closed captioning tweaks.

Only time will tell.

Maybe if Earl is viewing this thread he can rattle the cages of our DirecTV overlords and see if they have any info on how CC is coming on the HR20 for the next software update.


----------



## DeafVegas (Dec 4, 2006)

Okay, The D* guy came over this am and set it up HD dish on the roof. 5 lnb dish. It works great. Closed captioning works just fine without any problems at all. I still have the old HR10 DVR and new HD box. No problem with CC


----------



## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

I'm watching CC on CNN (Situation Room) right now and it is working a lot better than it has been. I don't know if this is temp improvement, something that is unique to CNN at the moment, or the result of some fix on SD channels. I've been doing most of my testing on CNN and MSNBC...and previous tests were a disaster. This is MUCH better. (as bad as it has been, I doubt things have been solved...but at least for this moment, they are quite a bit better on CNN at 6:03 p.m. central time)


----------



## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

Still the same for me on FNC tonight... scrolling by too far at 6pm, better at 7, but that's par for the course.


----------



## Littledude (Aug 28, 2006)

DeafVegas said:


> Okay, The D* guy came over this am and set it up HD dish on the roof. 5 lnb dish. It works great. Closed captioning works just fine without any problems at all. I still have the old HR10 DVR and new HD box. No problem with CC


Keep that HR10 hooked up, it is the HD locals that will get you..................


----------



## DeafVegas (Dec 4, 2006)

You said "Keep that HR10 hooked up, it is the HD locals that will get you.................."

It doesn't matter if I keep HR10 hooked up or not because I have a 5 lnb dish that will pick up HD locals. It works.


----------



## Littledude (Aug 28, 2006)

Sorry. My HD locals via the 5lnb dish on the HR20 are the ones that are still a jarbled mess. However, with the HR10 the locals (via OTA) display the CCs perfectly. I am jealous that your locals via D* on the HR20 work fine.


----------



## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

DeafVegas said:


> You said "Keep that HR10 hooked up, it is the HD locals that will get you.................."
> 
> It doesn't matter if I keep HR10 hooked up or not because I have a 5 lnb dish that will pick up HD locals. It works.


If you can get HD locals via OTA (an antenna) you'll be fine with an HR10 for now.

It's my main box and CC works fine on it.

But I suspect the CC issues on the HR20 will be worked out very soon.


----------



## moofmac25 (Dec 12, 2006)

HI - 

I just got a new TV (46" Sony HD-TV) and HD20 via DIrecTV. Yesterday, DirecTV crew came over and upgraded my dish to 5LN.  

I'm deaf & use Closed Caption (CC) via TV because the CC font & size fit my needs & works really well via live broadcasting.

I've tested several inputs using TV's CC not the HD20 as result, the ONLY input will work is RCA including local (Washington, D.C.) HD channels. I'm wondering why does the DirecTV HD DVR blocks confused: ) the CC (line 21) from feeding CC data via HDMI and component? 

The only way I can see CC via HDMI & component is to use the CC feature via DirecTV HD DVR and its CC is not somewhere prefect. I don't like its fonts & size also, the timing is off during live broadcast.

Happy Holidays!


----------



## jbwitt (Dec 5, 2006)

Running 0x10b and the CC just went out on every channel (I'm using the box's CC). A reset appears to have "fixed" it. Never had that happen before with any release. I've noticed some improvement with captions overall with this release though, mainly on SD channels. But I'm watching sportscenter right now and the captions look like they're in Mongolian or something.


----------



## Milominderbinder2 (Oct 8, 2006)

Maybe D* will never figure out how to do Closed Captioning. Why can't they just let CC pass through and let the TV do the job? THe good folks at Sony and a dozen others figured out CC a decade ago.

- Craig


----------



## cuibap (Sep 14, 2006)

DTV and analog TV have 2 different kinds of cc: EIA-708 (DTV) and EIA-608 (Analog TV). Seems like D* only passes EIA-608 spec via others but not through HDMI (at least on my HDTV - Sony KDS-A2000). D* needs to look at how to pass EIA-708 spec via HDMI. Howver, with the kind of programming skills they have from those Idian guys on the HR20, this WILL TAKE a long time (still better than NEVER) for them to figure it out. BTW, Sony and others already got this working years ago....


----------



## dlvh (Dec 15, 2006)

Ok, This will be my first post on this forum and I see a lot of discussion here about CC, but I'd like to know the exact steps how to turn it on and off on an HR20. I can't seem to find it listed anywhere... I must have overlooked it, can anyone tell me how to do it?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## kenmoo (Oct 3, 2006)

dlvh said:


> Ok, This will be my first post on this forum and I see a lot of discussion here about CC, but I'd like to know the exact steps how to turn it on and off on an HR20. I can't seem to find it listed anywhere... I must have overlooked it, can anyone tell me how to do it?
> 
> Thanks in advance


I never could find it in any of the manuals either. I don't think D* wants you to find it because it doesn't work very well. There are many good explanations on this forum but this is a short summary. Hope it helps. MENU>HELP & SETTINGS>SETUP> DISPLAY>PREFERENCES>CAPTIONS>OFF/ON. A single button toggle on/off request is on the HR20 wishlist. Better captioning is a constant issue discussed on this forum.


----------



## Milominderbinder2 (Oct 8, 2006)

dlvh said:


> Ok, This will be my first post on this forum and I see a lot of discussion here about CC, but I'd like to know the exact steps how to turn it on and off on an HR20. I can't seem to find it listed anywhere... I must have overlooked it, can anyone tell me how to do it?
> 
> Thanks in advance


It's in the Tips & Tricks link below.
- Craig


----------



## mlyle (Nov 16, 2006)

Well I just finished watching Brokeback Mountain from HBO HD about a week ago and it just really sucked big time. Further, I agree CC should be a button on the remote, too many steps... But really I want it from the TV. For me, the biggest use is when I mute, I want auto CC, which was a feature on this HDTV and on the last.

I am thinking that D* will probably get all this crap straight when someone sues their butt. Maybe all the other screwups can be accepted, but CC is going to land them in trouble with the lawyers for folks with hearing problems. Wouldn't all this CC stuff be mandated by the FCC and congress? Heck people have to spend big bucks to renovate old buildings for folks with wheelchairs, surely you cannot be making a new product in 2006 which does not have a needed feature with the audibly challenged.


----------



## dlvh (Dec 15, 2006)

Thanks fellows. I did happen to come across it late last night.

My TV also has CC enabled when I hit the mute button... a very nice feature, but it gets bypassed when I go through the HR20...too bad really.


----------



## jbwitt (Dec 5, 2006)

jbwitt said:


> Running 0x10b and the CC just went out on every channel (I'm using the box's CC). A reset appears to have "fixed" it. Never had that happen before with any release. I've noticed some improvement with captions overall with this release though, mainly on SD channels. But I'm watching sportscenter right now and the captions look like they're in Mongolian or something.


This has happened 3 more times since I posted this. A RBR is the only thing that fixes it. Has anybody else had this problem with 10b? I still think that overall the SD captions have improved slightly with this release, though.


----------



## moofmac25 (Dec 12, 2006)

Yesterday I've reinstalled 10b and the CC (HD20 and TV) seems somewhere gibbish and does not work very well on ESPN HD and Fox HD (local, Washington, D.C.). However, CC does seems to work very well on ESPN SD and FOX SD plus other channels, HD and SD. I don't understand why this is a problematical. Who do we point finger at ? D* or ESPN/FOX for causing the problem?

Happy New Year! :-D


----------



## YankeeFan (Jan 31, 2006)

Is there any reason why the HR20 won't pass the captions to the TV in SD so I can let the TV do the decoding??? I prefer the font/color options my TV has. 

I've tried watching SD material using both component and HDMI and in both cases it won't work (my old HR10-250 does....the only time I let the "box" do the decoding was when watching HD material) Is the only option letting the HR20 do a sucky job of decoding the CC's with the horrendous looking fonts?


----------



## BJM (Dec 9, 2006)

FWIW, I didn't see *any* CC on any programs yesterday for the first time... 0x10b still (the latest release, not 115).


----------



## micah67 (Aug 21, 2006)

My Closed Captioning issue is that the text often is pushed to the top of the screen (like it is during the start of a program when credits are displayed at the bottom). In order to get it to move back to the bottom, I've learned to pause|play|pause|play until it works (and repeating if/when it moves to the top after a few lines).
I'm using component cables, native on, 0x11b - but it's been this way on other software releases, too.


----------



## jbwitt (Dec 5, 2006)

Okay, I nearly got shot tonight. My deaf wife has been out of town for over a week, so she made me check and double check that I recorded her fav show, 24, for her. I recorded both the SD and HD because the HD CC has never been good on this %#@#$ box. So tonight, she sits down to watch it. Started with the HD version of course... no CC what-so-ever. Nothing. "No problem!", I said... "I recorded the SD too." So she starts the SD. NO CAPTIONS AT ALL. (btw I'm running 0x10b). She almost killed me. First I tried the RBR, which has worked for me in the past. Nothing. Not a single blip of a caption during any of the 4 hours of 24 recorded last week on SD or HD. So maybe it was the broadcast, right? Wrong. I watched the whole 4 hours at broadcast time with captions working just fine in the bedroom.

The word "lawsuit" came out of her mouth more than once over the next several minutes. She really feels like she's being treated unfairly, and considering how much we paid for this box I can't disagree.


----------



## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

jbwitt said:


> Okay, I nearly got shot tonight. My deaf wife has been out of town for over a week, so she made me check and double check that I recorded her fav show, 24, for her. I recorded both the SD and HD because the HD CC has never been good on this %#@#$ box. So tonight, she sits down to watch it. Started with the HD version of course... no CC what-so-ever. Nothing. "No problem!", I said... "I recorded the SD too." So she starts the SD. NO CAPTIONS AT ALL. (btw I'm running 0x10b). She almost killed me. First I tried the RBR, which has worked for me in the past. Nothing. Not a single blip of a caption during any of the 4 hours of 24 recorded last week on SD or HD. So maybe it was the broadcast, right? Wrong. I watched the whole 4 hours at broadcast time with captions working just fine in the bedroom.
> 
> The word "lawsuit" came out of her mouth more than once over the next several minutes. She really feels like she's being treated unfairly, and considering how much we paid for this box I can't disagree.


JB, don't delete the recordings. Reboot the box completely, and see if the captions show. If not, it was probably on the local Fox station that the CC died. While the HR20 has issues with closed captioning--and it can disappear needing a reboot of the box--I've not seen it not record captions.


----------



## BJM (Dec 9, 2006)

As I mentioned above, when 119 became a release candidate, my CC disappeared - could not get it at all on my HR20, OK on regular box. Since 119 (and, briefly, 11b), no CC issues (other than normal ones).


----------



## jbwitt (Dec 5, 2006)

Capmeister said:


> JB, don't delete the recordings. Reboot the box completely, and see if the captions show. If not, it was probably on the local Fox station that the CC died. While the HR20 has issues with closed captioning--and it can disappear needing a reboot of the box--I've not seen it not record captions.


I did a red button reset twice. The captions for these recordings will not appear. Also, the CC from Fox was working just fine. I watched the shows at the time of broadcast through a SD box with captions on. This is the first time I've seen this problem.


----------



## febdragon (Sep 16, 2006)

I got 0x11b couple of days back and my favorite shows on FOX are 24 and prison break. Unfortunately, CC is not working! Ever since I got my HR20, CC has been a pain in the #@#$. Is using HDMI the many culprit? As people has posted, some channels CC are perfect.

ARGH!!!


----------



## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

jbwitt said:


> I did a red button reset twice. The captions for these recordings will not appear. Also, the CC from Fox was working just fine. I watched the shows at the time of broadcast through a SD box with captions on. This is the first time I've seen this problem.


I'm not sure what to tell you there.


----------



## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

febdragon said:


> I got 0x11b couple of days back and my favorite shows on FOX are 24 and prison break. Unfortunately, CC is not working! Ever since I got my HR20, CC has been a pain in the #@#$. Is using HDMI the many culprit? As people has posted, some channels CC are perfect.
> 
> ARGH!!!


It shouldn't matter if you use or whatever, because the CC is rendered on the screen in the same manner as the menu.


----------



## DeafVegas (Dec 4, 2006)

Hey,

I have a Panasonic TX600U. Closed Captioned works with HDMI even when recording a program. There was no problems with the closed captioned and HDMI. I don't understand why some people still have trouble with the cc and HDMI..

Whatever happens stay in Vegas


----------



## alan (Sep 20, 2004)

mlyle said:


> <snip> Wouldn't all this CC stuff be mandated by the FCC and congress? <snip>


The FCC is supposed to enforce the Closed Captioning rules, but they won't do anything unless someone complains to them; and believe me, it helps if it's more than one person complaining.

Everyone that has posted here should be writing to the FCC with their complaints. Talking to DirecTV is a waste of time.

It's pretty easy to send an informal (that's usually email) complaint to the FCC. You can find the email address on the FCC website. _Sorry, I tried to post the URL but I guess I can't because I haven't posted enough in the years I've been a member. You'll have to type the WWW dot FCC dot GOV in a browser youself 'cause I can't post a link._ :nono:

You will need this information:

Date: *MM/DD/YYYY*
Time: *HH:MM AM/PM*
Carrier: *DirecTV/H20-NNN DirecTV receiver*
TV: *You may need to provide this information too*
Channel: *Channel Information like: WMAQ channel NN, Chicago, IL*
Show Name: *What ever show it was*
CC Problem: *Closed Captioning is garbled, CC stopped 8 minutes into the show, Whatever it is, put it here*

I had a Sony SAT-T60 and you couldn't read the captions on it because the CC text flashed on and off the screen so quick that you couldn't read it. Anyone remember that one?

I tried to be nice and I tried to tell DirecTV that CC didn't work (they knew all along), but the straw that broke the camels back was when the Customer Service rep told me in no uncertain terms that CC was the job of my TV, not DirecTV and she hung up on me.

Within about three weeks, the FCC asked DirecTV what was wrong with CC, why they hung up on me when I tried to report the problem, when it was going to be fixed and they needed to hear their answer in 30 days.

I'm sure DirecTV had no intension of fixing the T60 nor any of the other Series 1 DirecTiVo, but about a year later they released a fix.

I would urge anyone that is having CC problems to report them directly to the FCC. Any other route is just going to be a finger pointing exercise and will delay in getting the problem fixed.

I don't mean to be blunt, but please oh please don't just post here and stop. Send your complaint to the FCC. The squeaky wheel gets the grease and if you "ain't" squeakin' then you "ain't" gonna get any grease.


----------



## Milominderbinder2 (Oct 8, 2006)

The links for filing a complaint with the FCC are in the HR20 FAQ:

_What are the FCC Closed Captioning Rules? How can I file a complaint?
_→ FCC Closed Captioning flyer
→ FCC Closed Captioning Rules
→ Filing Closed Captioning Complaints

- Craig


----------



## kbxm (Mar 15, 2007)

Add me to the list of people seeing this with HR 20-100 on 0x146.

I didn't take the MPEG2/MPEG4 difference into account though which would explain why my local channels are readable, but not good and some channels are complete garbage. OTA always works.

It also seems to come and go at random lately.

One feature I'd like is for a "CC pass through" like my old TiVo had so when you hit MUTE, the CC stream is there for the TV to display without having to turn it on and off.


----------



## terrelliott (May 7, 2007)

I don't really mind using the HR20 built in cc. I just wish that they would give me 1 button access to it. If I can't have that then I would settle for HDMI cc passthrough. Why do they make this so hard to use?


----------



## m4p (Apr 12, 2007)

terrelliott said:


> I don't really mind using the HR20 built in cc. I just wish that they would give me 1 button access to it. If I can't have that then I would settle for HDMI cc passthrough. Why do they make this so hard to use?


I ended up making CC an activity on my Harmony remote. At least now I only have to push one button while the Harmony does the rest. Still takes time though watching it cycle through everything, and I really wish DirecTV would fix it so it was only 1 button push.


----------



## WashDCHR20 (Apr 11, 2007)

I would have responded to this sooner but I've been away the past month and not able to easily get on the internet. I sent a complaint to the FCC about the HR20's constantly garbled closed captioning several months ago on behalf of my wife who finds it unwatchable (I do too actually - without hearing the audio I'd never figure out what is being said on some of the HD channels). The response I got (on April 20 to my complaint that I sent in on February 15) was that since the time I filed the complaint, DirecTV has completely fixed the CC problems that existed when the HR20 was released to the public! Once again, DirecTV tells another lie.... Somehow, I have my doubts whether or not the FCC is going to do anything. Maybe more complaints will expose this lie!



alan said:


> The FCC is supposed to enforce the Closed Captioning rules, but they won't do anything unless someone complains to them; and believe me, it helps if it's more than one person complaining.
> 
> Everyone that has posted here should be writing to the FCC with their complaints. Talking to DirecTV is a waste of time.
> 
> ...


----------



## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

I can't test MPEG-4 channels, but the box itself decodes CC fine over OTA and MPEG-2. All of those problems ARE fixed.


----------



## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

WashDCHR20 said:


> I would have responded to this sooner but I've been away the past month and not able to easily get on the internet. I sent a complaint to the FCC about the HR20's constantly garbled closed captioning several months ago on behalf of my wife who finds it unwatchable (I do too actually - without hearing the audio I'd never figure out what is being said on some of the HD channels). The response I got (on April 20 to my complaint that I sent in on February 15) was that since the time I filed the complaint, DirecTV has completely fixed the CC problems that existed when the HR20 was released to the public! Once again, DirecTV tells another lie.... Somehow, I have my doubts whether or not the FCC is going to do anything. Maybe more complaints will expose this lie!


Instead of accusing someone of lying, consider that perhaps the problem is isolated to the MPEG-4 stream. There are LOTS of issues with MPEG-4 that are currently being worked on both encode and decode. If, as many of us have experienced, the CC is fixed on the MPEG-2 HD and SD channels, then the CC issue itself may be fixed. You won't see the benefit of that until the bugs are worked out of the MPEG-4 stream. (assuming you are watching MPEG-4)

It is perfectly possible that the CC bugs have been fixed and what you are seeing are MPEG-4 issues (that cause the CC to look bad for other reasons).

If you are using HD-Locals (MPEG-4), try looking at the same material on OTA-HD...I bet you'll see the CC is fine. If that is true, then the real problem is with the MPEG-4 stream and that is what D* needs to be told about (no doubt they already have, but it might make you feel better if you tell them yourself)

I have no MPEG-4 here. I haven't seen a CC issue in quite some time.

I've checked every National Release and every CE release for months. I have seen no recent problems with CC. (again, I don't have MPEG-4)


----------



## spunkyvision (Oct 12, 2006)

> It is perfectly possible that the CC bugs have been fixed and what you are seeing are MPEG-4 issues (that cause the CC to look bad for other reasons).
> 
> If you are using HD-Locals (MPEG-4), try looking at the same material on OTA-HD...I bet you'll see the CC is fine. If that is true, then the real problem is with the MPEG-4 stream and that is what D* needs to be told about (no doubt they already have, but it might make you feel better if you tell them yourself)


It could be the MPEG-4 but I have no other way of testing mine. All i have is the HR20 (cannot get locals via OTA) and CC on those channels are worthless. I watch SD channels on my Directivo and use the TV for CC and it works fine.


----------



## WashDCHR20 (Apr 11, 2007)

OK, so maybe it is in the MPEG4 stream. But why is it then when I call DirecTV and report this, they tell me that I am the only one reporting it, and as far as they are concerned all CC problems on the HR20 are solved. Same as what they told the FCC. I guess it is too bad that everyone on this forum seems to not get MPEG4 locals and thinks everything is fine and that's what DirecTV seems to believe. OK, so maybe they are not lying, but they are not listening to people like me who still are having problems. I have no way of getting the OTA broadcast. I live too far away from the origin point to receive it.


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Its definitely the MPEG-4 CCs that are frequently garbled. I often record the same shows both OTA and MPEG-4 on different HR20's, so I have been able to verify this. /s


----------



## mrb (Sep 14, 2006)

WashDCHR20 said:


> OK, so maybe it is in the MPEG4 stream. But why is it then when I call DirecTV and report this, they tell me that I am the only one reporting it, and as far as they are concerned all CC problems on the HR20 are solved. Same as what they told the FCC. I guess it is too bad that everyone on this forum seems to not get MPEG4 locals and thinks everything is fine and that's what DirecTV seems to believe. OK, so maybe they are not lying, but they are not listening to people like me who still are having problems. I have no way of getting the OTA broadcast. I live too far away from the origin point to receive it.


Correct. All cc are great unless you are watching an HD feed on NBC, ABC or FOX via the satellite. CBS mpeg-4 HD local feed has always been okay here in the Chicago market.

Since most of what we watch is local HD mpeg-4 feeds as far as I am concerned the captions are still unusuable.


----------



## kenmoo (Oct 3, 2006)

I'm in the Sacramento DMA and in the Sierra Mountain range. Absolutely no OTA signals of any kind. I've had the HR20 since Sept 2006 and CC has definitley improved. Minor issues with MPEG2 HD but still very garbled with MPEG4 HD locals from Sac. ABC is absolutley the worst. Some of their CC is still showing up in Spanish mixed in with the English. Sentences cut off, wrong words, garbled and a lot of missing words. I sent them a personal email several months ago and never heard a word back. D* CSR's say there is no problems? I have given up tryng to get good CC on MPEG4 locals.


----------



## machavez00 (Nov 2, 2006)

as of this last CE my CC is in sync with a normal level of garbled text in live CC


----------



## paloaltokeith (Apr 4, 2007)

kenmoo said:


> I'm in the Sacramento DMA and in the Sierra Mountain range. Absolutely no OTA signals of any kind. I've had the HR20 since Sept 2006 and CC has definitley improved. Minor issues with MPEG2 HD but still very garbled with MPEG4 HD locals from Sac. ABC is absolutley the worst. Some of their CC is still showing up in Spanish mixed in with the English. Sentences cut off, wrong words, garbled and a lot of missing words. I sent them a personal email several months ago and never heard a word back. D* CSR's say there is no problems? I have given up tryng to get good CC on MPEG4 locals.


Similar with the San Francisco locals via MPEG-4.........CBS pretty good; NBC is the worst for us. Agree that issues with MPEG-2 are minor............we watch HBO a lot, and it is pretty good.


----------



## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

We need a few people to take the lead if they have MPEG4 and document the problems--pictures, detailed descriptions, frequency of the issues--and post about it here. D* engineers who monitor this forum were very receptive to other CC issues.


----------



## YankeeFan (Jan 31, 2006)

Any idea if those D* engineers have considered making one of the buttons on the remote a cc on-off button?


----------



## mrb (Sep 14, 2006)

Capmeister said:


> We need a few people to take the lead if they have MPEG4 and document the problems--pictures, detailed descriptions, frequency of the issues--and post about it here. D* engineers who monitor this forum were very receptive to other CC issues.


I'll be happy to post with more specifics the next time I encounter the problem. Truth is we've just stopped using them (my wife is Romanian and doesn't "need" them, but it helps her to understand) since they're always f-ed up. I'll start turning them on again to see what's what.


----------



## WashDCHR20 (Apr 11, 2007)

Capmeister said:


> We need a few people to take the lead if they have MPEG4 and document the problems--pictures, detailed descriptions, frequency of the issues--and post about it here. D* engineers who monitor this forum were very receptive to other CC issues.


I might have been happy to do so, but in the past got chased off this board when I reported this issue by someone who insisted I must have my HR20 connected incorrectly to the TV and that he has never seen a CC issue and his HR20 works perfectly! (Someone who chased a lot of other people off the board - I might add). I stayed away for awhile, only to once again be told that I should view the OTA signal when I live too far away to do so - although no one apparently took the time to think that could be the case. I guess I'll let some of the other folks who now have reported in that they are having issues take the lead.

The frequency is 100% as far as all MPEG4 channels that I get. All the time, sentences are so garbled that if you weren't hearing what was being said, you would not be able to understand it by reading it.

The CC issue with MPEG4 has been reported for a long time on this board, but I haven't personally seen any improvement in it. I have called DirecTV repeatedly and they have never offered to really look into it and always claim I'm the only one having issues with CC. They have offered to replace my HR20 (for a cost). No thanks - other than the CC issue which I am sure is not unique to my HR20 I haven't had many other issues with the box.

I guess you can see how frustrated I am, and it is really because of my wife's frustration with this - she is the one who needs CC - not me.


----------



## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

WashDCHR20 said:


> I might have been happy to do so, but in the past got chased off this board when I reported this issue by someone who insisted I must have my HR20 connected incorrectly to the TV and that he has never seen a CC issue and his HR20 works perfectly! (Someone who chased a lot of other people off the board - I might add). I stayed away for awhile, only to once again be told that I should view the OTA signal when I live too far away to do so - although no one apparently took the time to think that could be the case. I guess I'll let some of the other folks who now have reported in that they are having issues take the lead.
> 
> The frequency is 100% as far as all MPEG4 channels that I get. All the time, sentences are so garbled that if you weren't hearing what was being said, you would not be able to understand it by reading it.
> 
> ...


I remember you posting in April, and I agreed they had to fix that--and couldn't wait for other MPEG4 channels to flood their system. Not sure who ran you off, but not leave just because someone disagrees with you. It's important to fight for these things for our loved ones.


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

YankeeFan said:


> Any idea if those D* engineers have considered making one of the buttons on the remote a cc on-off button?


If you search for it, you'll see we've batted around suggestions on the easiest way to toggle CC's ad nauseum. In the end, we just put an item on the Wish List that asks for "An easier way to toggle CC's on and off". If you take both the surveys linked to in my sig below, it will hopefully let D* know how important an issue this is for you. TIA. /s


----------



## WashDCHR20 (Apr 11, 2007)

Capmeister said:


> I remember you posting in April, and I agreed they had to fix that--and couldn't wait for other MPEG4 channels to flood their system. Not sure who ran you off, but not leave just because someone disagrees with you. It's important to fight for these things for our loved ones.


Thanks Capmeister. I appreciate the comments. I have for the last 6 months or more followed all your posts and you did a lot to really improve the CC issues with the HR20 - as I remember what it was like last September when I first got it.

Not important who ran me off - although a clue is he doesn't seem to be active here on the board anymore, but at one time (early this year/late last year) was extremely active and vocal against anyone who had anything in the least bit negative to say about the HR20. He didn't post a reply on the board but sent me a number of private messages that were not too much fun to read basically implying I didn't know how to hook the box up correctly and other things of that nature.... No one at the time seemed to want to shut him down (that is the posts he was making on the board - not his private messages) so I left the board for awhile.

Actually, other than CC issues, my HR20 has done quite well (having had it since last September). It would be an almost perfect box if it weren't for the CC issues. (I say almost perfect because FF/RW of MPEG4 is pretty ugly and I view that as an important feature of a DVR). I realize now the CC issues are confined to MPEG4 - so that is a definite improvement, in a large part thanks to your efforts. Maybe with the recent posts DirecTV will start realizing there is still some problem with MPEG4 and CC, as no one who gets MPEG4 and looks at CC seems to have anything good to say about it! Also, as far as I can tell there has been no improvement with MPEG4 CC since last September.


----------



## TMullenJr (Feb 23, 2006)

As some of you recall, I did a test with Studio 60 a few weeks ago. I sent an email to D*, the FCC & my local NBC affiliate. 

D*'s response to my email was that they were aware of the problems with the captioning on the HR-20 and they are actively working on it.

I received a reply from my affiliate that said "we called them, and they were not seeing the captions. After looking into the problem they reported that the decoder they were using was not passing the closed caption information. They have corrected the problem and are now passing the WVIT HD captions." 

Since then, my NBC captioning has been 100% perfect. I then forwarded part of the email to D* saying that I am having the same issue on FOX & CBS (no ABC HD), and perhaps it is also a simple fix. I haven't heard back yet.


----------



## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

WashDCHR20 said:


> Thanks Capmeister. I appreciate the comments. I have for the last 6 months or more followed all your posts and you did a lot to really improve the CC issues with the HR20 - as I remember what it was like last September when I first got it.
> 
> Not important who ran me off - although a clue is he doesn't seem to be active here on the board anymore, but at one time (early this year/late last year) was extremely active and vocal against anyone who had anything in the least bit negative to say about the HR20. He didn't post a reply on the board but sent me a number of private messages that were not too much fun to read basically implying I didn't know how to hook the box up correctly and other things of that nature.... No one at the time seemed to want to shut him down (that is the posts he was making on the board - not his private messages) so I left the board for awhile.
> 
> Actually, other than CC issues, my HR20 has done quite well (having had it since last September). It would be an almost perfect box if it weren't for the CC issues. (I say almost perfect because FF/RW of MPEG4 is pretty ugly and I view that as an important feature of a DVR). I realize now the CC issues are confined to MPEG4 - so that is a definite improvement, in a large part thanks to your efforts. Maybe with the recent posts DirecTV will start realizing there is still some problem with MPEG4 and CC, as no one who gets MPEG4 and looks at CC seems to have anything good to say about it! Also, as far as I can tell there has been no improvement with MPEG4 CC since last September.


You still might consider that it's not a CC issue at all, but that CC in MPEG-4 is a "side effect" of the MPEG-4 problems. I'm betting once they get MPEG-4 working well that most, if not all of the CC problems go away. It would be interesting to see if anyone using MPEG-4 or those who are not having MPEG-4 problems also don't have CC problems on their mpeg-4 channels.

If you think about it, if the code for presenting CC in non-MPEG-4 works and the problem only happens in MPEG-4, then once they get "clean data" out of the MPEG-4 stream, the presentation should be good, wouldn't you think?


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Unlike last week, last night's Studio 60 had closed captions. I spot-checked both the OTA and MPEG-4 feeds, and both appeared to be OK. Let's hope this continues. /s


----------



## WashDCHR20 (Apr 11, 2007)

hasan said:


> You still might consider that it's not a CC issue at all, but that CC in MPEG-4 is a "side effect" of the MPEG-4 problems. I'm betting once they get MPEG-4 working well that most, if not all of the CC problems go away. It would be interesting to see if anyone using MPEG-4 or those who are not having MPEG-4 problems also don't have CC problems on their mpeg-4 channels.
> 
> If you think about it, if the code for presenting CC in non-MPEG-4 works and the problem only happens in MPEG-4, then once they get "clean data" out of the MPEG-4 stream, the presentation should be good, wouldn't you think?


Actually, I don't have any other issues with MPEG4 broadcast reception. The HR20 records them fine and plays them back fine (with the exception of FF/RW but that's a well known issue and has to do with the fact that MPEG4 frames often are "incremental frames"). I happen to know a reasonable amount of MPEG4 because I work as a software engineer on an operational satellite broadcast system for the military that broadcasts MPEG4 video.

Anyway, I've had the HR20 since last September and been receiving MPEG4 that whole time, and for the most part (99% of the time) been successful at recording/playing back the MPEG4 broadcasts. Early on there were some recording/playback issues, but those have long since been corrected in some of the early software updates after I received my HR20.

I am willing to concede that somehow the piece of the data stream that has the CC info in it is not clean, but the rest of the signal appears clean (and looks extremely good at times on shows such as "Lost" and "Heroes" on my HDTV using the HR20 as the source). I can't for certain say that the MPEG4 signal is "clean" as that would involve somehow being able to verify bit for bit that it is uncorrupted, obviously. I will confess my knowledge of MPEG4 does not extend to CC, as the military of course in their MPEG4 transmissions do not use CC. It is also true that the system I work on, while broadcasting MPEG4 video, does not broadcast video of HD quality. Beyond that I can't really speak anymore about it, but as I said I do have a fairly good knowledge of MPEG4, having written a lot of the software code for this system to handle it.

In any event, the net effect is unintelligible CC on MPEG4 HD on the HR20. And every time I've tried to escalate the problem at DirecTV, I get no real results. It has been reported ad-infinitum in this forum since last year, and I see no real improvement. I do hope DirecTV is working on it, but after 9 months of not seeing any improvement, I have sort of lost faith. I hope though I am proven wrong. My wife is very disappointed that she has no way of enjoying the local MPEG4 HD broadcasts. She has wanted me to somehow get out of our 2 year commitment because of this, but up until now I have stuck with it. I am losing hope however, and really wish I had known the lack of good CC on MPEG4 would have been such a big issue. We bought a nice HDTV but sadly, my wife cannot view any network TV shows on it in HD quality. So you can see my frustration... If it had been for 3 months or even 6 months, that would be one thing, but it is going on 9 months now! DirecTV seems to refuse to acknowledge ANY problems with CC reception on MPEG4 broadcasts, so that is what is in particular frustrating. Again, I recognize that it may not be with CC decoding, but still DirecTV needs to be working this issue - and no one has yet to prove to me that they are (no one from DirecTV that is).


----------



## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

NBC has been having some CC sync problems on HD, at least locally for me, via OTA. I've been working with my local engineer.

FOX, by the way, with whom I've been talking in email for months, keeps working on their HD CC sync problems, and the last few times I've checked, it's been good. I think they may have fixed it.


----------



## Aria (Aug 27, 2005)

Maybe this has already been answered in this thread, but there are too many posts to wade through.

The CC from TVs is a million times better than what D* is putting on its boxes. CC from TVs rarely has any garbling, is much clearer and easier to read, is much easier to turn on and off, etc. With D*'s CC, the CC is placed permanently on tapes or DVDs recorded from D*'s newer boxes-- there's no way to turn it on or off. With boxes and systems that use TVs' CC, the CC can be turned on and off while watching a tape or DVD recorded from those boxes/ systems.

I had the H20 and now the HR20 on a 2002 Mitsubitshi 60" big box HD-ready 1080i TV. CC from my TV doesn't work at all with the H20 or HR20. It isn't just the HD channels, but all channels. CC on my TV worked with analog cable, my old DirecTV Sony A60 (?) receiver from '02, and my R10s (DirecTV Tivos). I have never owned a R15, HR10, or a more recent DirecTV non-DVR, non HD receiver. Does CC from the TV work with any of the more recent DirecTV boxes? I also have never had digital or HD from cable. Does CC from the TV work with digital cable or HD from cable?

It seems that CC from TV works for STD channels on almost all systems and boxes, except for the more recent D* boxes. So, why didn't D* enable CC to come from the TV for at least the STD channels on their newer boxes?


----------



## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

Aria said:


> Maybe this has already been answered in this thread, but there are too many posts to wade through.
> 
> The CC from TVs is a million times better than what D* is putting on its boxes. CC from TVs rarely has any garbling, is much clearer and easier to read, is much easier to turn on and off, etc. With D*'s CC, the CC is placed permanently on tapes or DVDs recorded from D*'s newer boxes-- there's no way to turn it on or off. With boxes and systems that use TVs' CC, the CC can be turned on and off while watching a tape or DVD recorded from those boxes/ systems.
> 
> ...


It does via Svideo or composite connection, but cannot via componant or HDMI. There's no room on those lines for CC--it's all used by picture quality bits.

This is why both the HR10-250 and the HR20-700 (or -100) have their own CC decoders which render on the screen. It's rendered like a menu, so passes through HDMI as part of the picture, as opposed to as code for the TV to decode.


----------



## WashDCHR20 (Apr 11, 2007)

An update to what I had previously reported about the garbled CC, on MPEG4 local HD stations. Again, I recognize this may be due to the MPEG4 stream not being "clean". I had been out of town for a month (the entire month of May) and was catching up on the TV shows I missed. As of the last episode of "Lost" on ABC, the captions there were still entirely garbled. For "Heroes" on NBC, up until the 2nd to the last episode, the captions were pretty garbled and unreadable. Surprisingly, in the 2nd to the last episode, they were entirely clean and I did not spot any errors in them! 

I am very encouraged by this development. I have not yet watched the last episode of "Heroes" but am hopeful it will be good as far as captions go too. So I wanted to post some positive news here about captions on MPEG4 given that I had posted a lot of negative stuff about them in the past - only because they were so garbled on ALL the local HD stations. It is encouraging that at least for NBC, for the 2nd to the last episode of "Heroes" - for the entire hour the captions were perfectly fine. So I am somewhat encouraged by this - as this is the first time I was able to watch an something from start to end and see perfectly readable CC on an MPEG4 channel. I even showed my wife, who up until now has not been able to watch any MPEG4 channels because of the terrible quality of the CC on there. Again, all I can do is talk about the end result - I really have no way of telling if it is the MPEG4 stream or something about how the box is decoding the CC info.


----------

