# Help me move away from our DirecTivo setup and into the 21st century



## tonydi (Jul 10, 2010)

I feel like Rip VanWinkle....I was so on top of the DirecTivo scene, with our 4 Hughes Tivo DVR's (HDVR2) with larger HD's and hacked using the Zipper tools and then all of a sudden I woke up and found DECA, SWiM, ICK and Whole Home DVR's!

We've been a DTV customer since 2003 and since we didn't have HD TV's, there was really no reason to give up our beloved Tivos. But we're really limping along right now because a couple of them are having the dreaded Tuner 2 pixelation bug and I'm not all that thrilled to pay $170 to fix each of them. Plus, up until now there didn't really seem to be any good alternatives, but that appears to have changed with the Whole Home thing from DTV and I'm hoping some of you can give me some advice specific to our situation.

My main concern is, what would we give up by moving to the new Whole Home DVR's with MRV and ICK? Just randoming thinking about what we do with our Tivos now....

1. It appears as though the MRV feature is similar (maybe better) than what we have with the hacked Tivos so am I not losing anything there?

2. I guess there's no way to replace the Tivo Server capability and be able to download a torrent from a missed episode and dump it to the DVR, right?

3. What about 30 second skip?

4. It appears as though the new DVR's can match the "record two different channels and still play back something recorded" capability, correct?

5. How do the new units compare to the Tivos capability for Season Passes/Wishlists?

6. What about padding shows, what's the largest padding for end of shows (I watch a lot of racing and even with 3 hrs extra tacked on, sometimes red flags and rain delays can come really close to using up that extra)? Also, is there automatic padding like I have with one of the Zipper tools?

7. What about buffers? Do the new units have comparable buffer capacity and the ability to come home after a show has begun and be able to hit record and capture what's already in the buffer too?

8. Can you be watching live TV on one tuner, pause it and switch to the other tuner and watch it and switch back and forth like this (not talking *receivers* here, but the tuners on *one box*)? That's a feature that comes in really handy when two sporting events are on at the same time.

9. What equipment should I end up asking for? Even though we still don't have any HD TV's, I don't think that situation will remain for much longer. I understand I need HD DVR's in order to do MRV, so obviously I have to go that way now no matter what TV's we have. And I guess I want the ICK, even though I'm still not exactly sure what that gets me.  Because our family situation has changed, we probably don't need 8 tuners, but we need at least 4 and 6 might be nice so I'm thinking maybe 3 DVR's and 1 regular HD box (which I presume could play back what's on all the DVR's, right?).

10. And finally, what can I expect from DTV as far as "freebies"? We've never, ever asked for anything from them. We've had the same equipment since 2003, so same Triple LNB 18x20 Dish, same 4 HDVR2's and the same 5x8 multi-switch. We've never asked for promos deals, not even free Showtime, nothing. I know lots of people play the game on a semi-regular basis and get DTV to cough up some sort of concession but I refrained, mostly because there wasn't anything I needed and also because I figured I'd "save up" my markers for a situation like this.

I should add that our house is fully wired, each TV location has a panel with two RG6 and two CAT5e drops (the family room has two of those panels behind the TV) all going back to a central wiring closet where everything drops in including phone and Internet.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

1 MRV works great. Never had TiVo so..
2 Not at this time.
3 30 sec skip or 30 sec slip, are selectable with a key word search
4 2 recordings while watching another.
5 can set up 50 series links
6 padding needs to be manually done up to 3 hours
7 90 min buffer
8 it's called double play using 2 90 min buffers
9 ???? :shrug:
10 again ??? :shrug:


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## bobnielsen (Jun 29, 2006)

2. You could download to your computer via a torrent and stream the video via Media Share (the ICK or your existing ethernet will provide a connection to your DVR).


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## armchair (Jul 27, 2009)

I've read about the Tivo hack for MRV. It works via transfer which Directv HD-DVR only streams which is good and bad. The playlist is combined which can be lengthy and trickplay (ie, FFW RW, skip, replay) is slower over a stream as opposed to local HDD. Arguably, the Tivo method is less problematic and places recordings on the preferred drive. IMO, a combination of both methods would be preferred (ie, stream or transfer?).

From what I've read, if you're not upgrading to HD, you may be happier with Tivo World. There's also been a long anticipated return of Tivo but who knows when that happens again.

Some of us were hoping the HD-DVRs would adopt Tivo f/w whenever Tivo came back to MPEG4 HD.


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## RACJ2 (Aug 2, 2008)

You should try to get the new HR24 DVR's if possible. They respond quicker to remote commands, scrolling through the guide, etc. The only problem is, to guarantee you get one, you have to get them from a place like solid signal and spend $199 per. 

If you order HD DVR's from DIRECTV, you might be able to get one or both of them for free, but no guarantee of what model you will get. No matter where you get them from, they will be leased and on a 24 month commitment. You should be able to get the free HD offer and maybe something like Showtime for free. You just have to call and see what they will offer.


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## tonydi (Jul 10, 2010)

veryoldschool said:


> 5 can set up 50 series links


So that takes care of season passes. Do the new units have a way to search for shows by keyword, title, actor, etc, and then automatically record any show that matches those?



veryoldschool said:


> 7 90 min buffer
> 8 it's called double play using 2 90 min buffers


Cool, that's 3x as much as the Tivo has. Buffers are a great feature.



bobnielsen said:


> 2. You could download to your computer via a torrent and stream the video via Media Share (the ICK or your existing ethernet will provide a connection to your DVR).


Ahh, excellent solution! Do you have the same sort of playback options when streaming, like pause, slo-mo, frame advance? Wait, do the new DVR's even *do* slo-mo and frame-by-frame?



RACJ2 said:


> You should try to get the new HR24 DVR's if possible.


Yeah, I saw that these are the preferred units but it's a roll of the dice as to what shows up. I presume that's mostly because they're pretty new so there's still old inventory of the other model out there.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

tonydi said:


> So that takes care of season passes. Do the new units have a way to search for shows by keyword, title, actor, etc, and then automatically record any show that matches those?


Yes there are some very good search features, but I don't think there is any automatic record. When you find something you'll still need to press the record button.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> Yes there are some very good search features, but I don't think there is any automatic record. When you find something you'll still need to press the record button.


You can setup auto records based on keyword, actor, etc. I have one setup for Eddie Izzard that works nicely.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

RunnerFL said:


> You can setup auto records based on keyword, actor, etc. I have one setup for Eddie Izzard that works nicely.


Glad you posted this, since I don't use the feature that much.


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## balboadave (Mar 3, 2010)

I am just finishing up an entire system upgrade, from 2 R10s I've had almost since they were released, standard def and a phone line, to full HD with a pair of HR-24s and the Whole Home Connection. Bottom line, run, don't walk, into the future.

The questions for which I can shed a little more light:

1. MRV is amazing, but is somewhat more limited than the advertising. You can see and play what's recorded on every other DVR if you set it up that way, but you can't see what's going to be recorded on them (to Do list), so setting up series links (that's a Season Pass to you) can get a little complicated. 

4. Yes. You can even switch between watching live TV with a recorded program. 

5. For Season Passes, it's worse, but that's because TiVo owns the patents. The limit of 50 is tough to bear (I used to have over 400 on two machines), and the scheduling doesn't seem to be as robust, but it does work well, and reordering them is instant. With the Whole Home option, you can double or triple your total. You can go on-line with DirecTV, or maybe use a phone app, and add recordings on DVRs in other rooms.

It's not obvious at first, but Keyword searches (Wish Lists) at least match the Tivos, and in some cases are better. If Smart Search doesn't find the show (or movie, or actor, etc.) you want, just press the red button and it turns into a Keyword search. When you get a chance, look up how to use the Boolean operators.

6. Padding is just like the TiVos, not automatic, but there is a friendly prompt when recording a live event asking if you want to pad an extra 30 minutes. You can of course add more.

7 and 8. The buffers are 90 minutes, but there is a gotcha. One, it has to be turned on, which is really simple, but two, if there are two recordings scheduled, and you choose to go ahead with the recordings, you can't watch the buffers once the recordings start. They just go away. That isn't the case with TiVo.

9. Ask for Whole Home and the HD upgrade. You'll get everything you need. A new dish if you need it, HR-24s for the DVRs, they will update your lines to SWiM (required for Whole Home), and add the internet connection (DECA or ICK). Internet is required for VOD and I think remote scheduling. If you have a PC based server, you can access all the media files on there too, or even watch DirecTV recordings on your PC.

10. The price I got, if I remember right, was a free DVR, another for $99, $49 for the Whole Home upgrade and $99 for the install. And I got to keep the R10s. Just be patient and polite with customer service, and they'll give you all the deals they have.


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## jal (Mar 3, 2005)

Overall, I still miss my TIVO HR10-250. In my mind, the Hr2x's are just not as fun to use, and the bugs in them along the way have soured me on them. 

Yet, they are much better now than at the start. Still, Directv can't seem to fix the smallest of things. For example, the Hr2x remote will not turn on my Panasonic Plasma unless I slide the top toggle to TV mode. Just a small thing, but an every day annoyance. One would thing that as Directv released different firmware versions of the remote, this would have been fixed.

I also miss suggestions. I enjoyed seeing what was recorded based upon my tastes.

Finally, the Hrxs I have are noisy (don't have a 24 so i can't comment on that unit). You can easily hear the hard drives clicking away. 

My Directivo from years ago is still wisper quiet. Look, if I could get 4 HD TIVO's and lifetime service on them for a reasonable price, I'd go back to cable just to have the TIVOs. Maybe I'd regret it later, but that's where I've been at for a while.

TIVO is the Rolls Royce of DVRS. The Hr2x's are like buying cheap generic soda. It doesn't taste bad, but you can tell its cheap by the taste.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

jal said:


> Overall, I still miss my TIVO HR10-250. In my mind, the Hr2x's are just not as fun to use, and the bugs in them along the way have soured me on them.
> 
> Yet, they are much better now than at the start. Still, Directv can't seem to fix the smallest of things. For example, the Hr2x remote will not turn on my Panasonic Plasma unless I slide the top toggle to TV mode. Just a small thing, but an every day annoyance. One would thing that as Directv released different firmware versions of the remote, this would have been fixed.
> 
> ...


Many would debate that - perhaps 3-4 years ago...but no longer.

As for the HR2x units...the HR24 units actually compare quite well with the attributes you describe.

I know of one person with 3 HR24's in his home, along with Whole Home DVR Service activated, and walking anywhere in his house and seeing the fast guide presentation and searches, playlist scrolling, channel changing, WHDS playbakc, and other activities is nothing shy of extremely impressive.

If you can pass up the cartoon network guide/menu feel of the Tivo's...the migration to an HR24 has no pain involved - many former Tivo users have made the switch quite comfortably. My HR10 is a distant memory.


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## jal (Mar 3, 2005)

How did you get the HR24? Through the whole home upgrade?


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

jal said:


> How did you get the HR24? Through the whole home upgrade?


Folks have received HR24's through a number of promos...yes...including WHDS. Also some NFLST and other package / new subscriber promos.


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## jdspencer (Nov 8, 2003)

My DirecTV remotes turn on my TVs just fine. I use the AV1 or AV2 switch positions (two DVRs on different TVs).

Also, my HR20 is in the bedroom and I can only hear it when standing near it. My HR23 is also quiet, but it's in the LR, so it doesn't matter if it were noisy.


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## bidger (Nov 19, 2005)

jal said:


> Yet, they are much better now than at the start. Still, Directv can't seem to fix the smallest of things. For example, the Hr2x remote will not turn on my Panasonic Plasma unless I slide the top toggle to TV mode. Just a small thing, but an every day annoyance.


Yeah, I have the same problem with my Home Theater Master MX-600 Universal Remote. It won't power on my TV unless the TV button is selected. Also, it won't adjust the volume on my A/V receiver unless the Audio input has been selected. ***** ain't it?


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## tonydi (Jul 10, 2010)

balboadave said:


> but you can't see what's going to be recorded on them (to Do list), so setting up series links (that's a Season Pass to you) can get a little complicated.


You mean you can't see the to do list for other DVR's without going to each one, right? I see there's an iPhone app, does that help work around this limitation? Right now I have TivoWebPlus, which is a PC app that gets you right into the Tivo over a network connection. So I can pull up the various screens on my PC and use them when setting things up.



balboadave said:


> 7 and 8. The buffers are 90 minutes, but there is a gotcha. One, it has to be turned on, which is really simple, but two, if there are two recordings scheduled, and you choose to go ahead with the recordings, you can't watch the buffers once the recordings start. They just go away. That isn't the case with TiVo.


I don't follow you here. My Tivos buffer live TV and if both tuners are recording then there's no live TV left to watch.



balboadave said:


> 9. Ask for Whole Home and the HD upgrade. You'll get everything you need. A new dish if you need it, HR-24s for the DVRs, they will update your lines to SWiM (required for Whole Home), and add the internet connection (DECA or ICK). Internet is required for VOD and I think remote scheduling. If you have a PC based server, you can access all the media files on there too, or even watch DirecTV recordings on your PC.


You make it sound like a slam dunk that I'll get HR-24's, although from reading the forum most people seem to indicate that it's a crap shoot, you get what they give you. Is that something that's changing now because of supply or were you somehow able to negotiate what you got.



balboadave said:


> 10. The price I got, if I remember right, was a free DVR, another for $99, $49 for the Whole Home upgrade and $99 for the install. And I got to keep the R10s. Just be patient and polite with customer service, and they'll give you all the deals they have.


So you didn't go to Retention and try to bargain, you just went through regular Customer Service?



jal said:


> I also miss suggestions. I enjoyed seeing what was recorded based upon my tastes.


Not a problem for me, I disabled Suggestions long ago. We never run out of stuff to watch with our regular shows so I've never seen the need.



jal said:


> Finally, the Hrxs I have are noisy (don't have a 24 so i can't comment on that unit). You can easily hear the hard drives clicking away.


That brings up a good point. Anyone with an HR-24 care to comment on the noise factor, since at least one of these would be in a bedroom? I replaced the stock HDVR2 fan with a quieter fan and I suppose that is do-able with these new units if necessary. I never had issues with the hard drive noise, though, just the fan.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

24s are dead quiet.


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## dtvmike1652 (Jun 14, 2010)

The only way to guarantee getting an HR24 is to get it from solidsignal.com or go to Ebay. Directv cannot specify which model you receive. If you get an HR22 or above they all have a 500gb hard drive and the software versions are the same. Basically there is no difference. Don't count on getting that specific model if you upgrade but if you do get an HR22 or above they are just as good. Just because it is the latest model doesn't mean that it is any better than the rest. Also Tivos are junk. They are difficult to navigate through, major pain for techs when they have to work on them, and not to mention who needs those stupid suggestions and wishlists? I'm glad that there are the new HR's they are so much easier to navigate and with so many new features who couldn't love what they have to offer


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## dtvmike1652 (Jun 14, 2010)

Keep in mind though if you do open up that receiver and replace anything on the newer models unless you out right payed full price to own that receiver it voids any kind of warranty even if you have the protection plan on your account.


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## RACJ2 (Aug 2, 2008)

jal said:


> ... Yet, they are much better now than at the start. Still, Directv can't seem to fix the smallest of things. For example, the Hr2x remote will not turn on my Panasonic Plasma unless I slide the top toggle to TV mode. Just a small thing, but an every day annoyance. One would thing that as Directv released different firmware versions of the remote, this would have been fixed....


The DIRECTV RC64R remote for my HR22 turns on both my DVR and Panasonic Plasma when I press the <On> button. Not sure why yours doesn't work that way. Maybe you need to do the steps to activate the input button to make the <On> button turn on the TV? You might give it a try:

SETTING UP THE TV INPUT KEY
Once you have setup the DIRECTV® Remote control for
your TV, you can activate the TV INPUT key so you can
change the "source"-the piece of equipment whose signal
is displayed on your TV:
1. Slide the MODE switch to the TV position.
2. Press and hold the MUTE and SELECT keys until the
green light under the TV position flashes twice, then
release both keys.
3. Using the number keys enter 9-6-0. (The green light
under the TV position flashes twice.)
You now can change the input for your TV.


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## tonydi (Jul 10, 2010)

RACJ2 said:


> The DIRECTV RC64R remote for my HR22 turns on both my DVR and Panasonic Plasma when I press the <On> button.


The concept of turning ON the DVR is foreign to me since the Tivo runs 24x7 and is essentially recording (buffer) 24x7. Why would you want to turn off the new DVR's? Doesn't that mess up the scheduled recordings or is "ON" something different and it still records when "off"?


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

tonydi said:


> The concept of turning ON the DVR is foreign to me since the Tivo runs 24x7 and is essentially recording (buffer) 24x7. Why would you want to turn off the new DVR's? Doesn't that mess up the scheduled recordings or is "ON" something different and it still records when "off"?


Actually...the HR24 and all other DirecTV DVRs also never really are "off". They also run 24 X 7 with buffer mode on the last channel tuned. No differerence.


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## DogLover (Mar 19, 2007)

tonydi said:


> The concept of turning ON the DVR is foreign to me since the Tivo runs 24x7 and is essentially recording (buffer) 24x7. Why would you want to turn off the new DVR's? Doesn't that mess up the scheduled recordings or is "ON" something different and it still records when "off"?


Off is really just "standby". Video output is disabled and the lights (such as output resolution) on the front panel are disabled. Standby also allows the DVR to give more processor time to background tasks, because it knows no one is watching live TV.


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## PokerJoker (Apr 12, 2008)

I didn't see where anybody mentioned one important thing that the OP may not know about - the lease issue.

To the OP - Unless you want to pay something like $500 each, please be aware that you will not own these boxes. They are leased and remain the property of D*. You will have a two year service commitment with early termination fees. You may not modify, hack, change hard drives, or even take the cover off. If you stop using one for any reason you have to send it back.

Also wanted to mention the OTA issue. These boxes do not have off-the-air tuners. This may not affect you. If it does, each box that needs OTA capability will also need an add-on tuner called an AM21. They're about $50 each - and those, you do own.

Keith


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## balboadave (Mar 3, 2010)

tonydi said:


> You mean you can't see the to do list for other DVR's without going to each one, right? I see there's an iPhone app, does that help work around this limitation? Right now I have TivoWebPlus, which is a PC app that gets you right into the Tivo over a network connection. So I can pull up the various screens on my PC and use them when setting things up.


You understand correctly. The online DirecTV channel listing has that ability too, and you can record a show or a series, and choose to force a recording by overriding the existing schedule. Being able to see and control the other To Do lists is perhaps the number one request among those with Whole Home service.


> I don't follow you here. My Tivos buffer live TV and if both tuners are recording then there's no live TV left to watch.


With TiVo, you're able to finish watching what's in the buffer as long as you don't change the channel. With D*, you get kicked out of the buffer when the other shows start recording.


> You make it sound like a slam dunk that I'll get HR-24's, although from reading the forum most people seem to indicate that it's a crap shoot, you get what they give you. Is that something that's changing now because of supply or were you somehow able to negotiate what you got.


Most other people are trying to get upgrades, free or otherwise, for their existing HD equipment. We're leap-frogging over them. HR-24s are the first unit designed with Whole Home service in mind, so it's easier and cheaper for the installers to use them. My experience was, not only did customer service put my HR-24 request on my order, the installer showed it on their paperwork. Still, I was ready to cancel my order if the installers didn't have HR-24s on the truck.


> So you didn't go to Retention and try to bargain, you just went through regular Customer Service?


Considering the DVRs are $200 each, and I paid $99 for two, I'm satisfied. The installers changed my dish, and I made them run a new line into the room that has my server to add the DECA, so they deserve their money. I also got some free premium channels for 3 months. Ask for the free HD for life; they'll give you two years for free.


> Not a problem for me, I disabled Suggestions long ago. We never run out of stuff to watch with our regular shows so I've never seen the need.
> 
> That brings up a good point. Anyone with an HR-24 care to comment on the noise factor, since at least one of these would be in a bedroom? I replaced the stock HDVR2 fan with a quieter fan and I suppose that is do-able with these new units if necessary. I never had issues with the hard drive noise, though, just the fan.


Both my DirecTiVos were on their last legs, one with fan noise, the other with hard drive noise. So far, the HR-24s are completely quiet, which is good, as one of them is in my bedroom too.


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## The Spud (Jul 14, 2002)

Since you don't have HD yet, if you want to extend the life of your current setup, I have 2 D-Tivo units that I have recently taken out of service that you can have for the cost of shipping. 

One of the main causes of the tuner 2 pixelation problem is a bad capacitor on the power supply. It's an easy fix. If you are not comfortable replacing board level components then you can just swap out the power supplies. If that doesn't solve the problem then you can swap out the dvrs.


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## djrobx (Jan 27, 2009)

> and trickplay (ie, FFW RW, skip, replay) is slower over a stream as opposed to local HDD


True. This is the major reason I upgraded to HR24s. Network trick play is very fast and responsive between HR24s, sometimes I forget I'm using MRV at all. With my HR22s doing anything other than a 30 second skip was an exercise in frustration.


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## tonydi (Jul 10, 2010)

PokerJoker said:


> I didn't see where anybody mentioned one important thing that the OP may not know about - the lease issue.


Thanks, Keith. Yeah, it looks like the only reason to buy is to have control over the model you get. Back when I got our original Tivo setup it was cheaper to buy from a third party than from DTV, although the lease thing didn't happen until much later. I can't think of too much that would be coming down the road from hacking the current units, looks like they've got pretty much everything I've got now. Maybe a centralized control interface for multiple DVR's, but like some have said here that's something that DTV might add on their own.



balboadave said:


> With TiVo, you're able to finish watching what's in the buffer as long as you don't change the channel.


Ahhh, ok, right. I needed that so infrequently that I've forgotten that it existed.



balboadave said:


> We're leap-frogging over them. HR-24s are the first unit designed with Whole Home service in mind, so it's easier and cheaper for the installers to use them. My experience was, not only did customer service put my HR-24 request on my order, the installer showed it on their paperwork. Still, I was ready to cancel my order if the installers didn't have HR-24s on the truck.


I'm a pretty good sweet-talker so it sounds like I've got a decent chance at pulling off the 24's with regular CSR's.



The Spud said:


> Since you don't have HD yet, if you want to extend the life of your current setup, I have 2 D-Tivo units that I have recently taken out of service that you can have for the cost of shipping.


Thanks for the offer. Let me think about it. A couple of days ago I would have jumped on the opportunity, but now that I've seen more details about the new DTV stuff, I'm sorted excited at the thought of moving up. Maybe after I talk with DTV and get some real numbers it won't look quite as exciting.


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## armchair (Jul 27, 2009)

djrobx said:


> True. This is the major reason I upgraded to HR24s. Network trick play is very fast and responsive between HR24s, sometimes I forget I'm using MRV at all. With my HR22s doing anything other than a 30 second skip was an exercise in frustration.


I don't want to get too far OT but I have noticed that trickplays between my HR24-500 and HR22-100 via MRV are much slower. It's as if they're not properly match. It's much more buggier than MRV between two HR22-100s ever was.

My point is, don't settle for a mixed batch of DVR models. That may have point as well, if so, I can attest to that.

I don't mind the HR22-100 having slower remote response but the MRV streaming between the two needs improvement.


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## Greg4050 (Jun 10, 2010)

but the double play only works if you are there to push the button to start it.

The Tivo was always buffering on the other channel.

We were in the same boat with on tivos and jumped on the HR24s....we miss our tivos dearly!!



tonydi said:


> So that takes care of season passes. Do the new units have a way to search for shows by keyword, title, actor, etc, and then automatically record any show that matches those?
> 
> Cool, that's 3x as much as the Tivo has. Buffers are a great feature.
> 
> ...


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## tonydi (Jul 10, 2010)

Greg4050 said:


> We were in the same boat with on tivos and jumped on the HR24s....we miss our tivos dearly!!


Uhh ohh. What kind of stuff do you miss about the Tivos that the new DVR can't do, or do as well?


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## PHL (Jul 15, 2004)

One very nice thing about the HR2x Dual Buffers: If you're buffering a channel on one tuner, and surfing on the other tuner, you don't have to worry about jumping over the channel on the first tuner. With Tivo, this would dump the first buffer. 

Also, true story. About 3 weeks ago, I decided to sign up for MRV. I still had two Samsung Tivo units from 2004, and they were slated for replacement. About 3 days after I placed the order for MRV, one of the units went bad. And 1 week after I got MRV hooked up, I tried to sell the remaining good unit on Craigslist. I powered it up to demo it to a buyer, and within 5 minutes, that one went bad too (Green Screen of Death). The Tivo's were remarkably reliable over their life, but 6 years of 24x7 operation is going to kill most consumer-grade electronics sooner or later.


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## Greg4050 (Jun 10, 2010)

tonydi said:


> Uhh ohh. What kind of stuff do you miss about the Tivos that the new DVR can't do, or do as well?


The main issue is that we lose audio when changing to certain channels. My other big gripe has been resolved by replacing the 30SLIP with 30skip. I'm not really sure why you would ever want the slip. I'm trying to get past the commercials as fast as possible, not have them scroll by at a faster speed.

The audio is only resolved by enabling the trick play or by switching back and forth between channels until it starts working. A reboot also resolves it, but that takes much longer... The Tivos just did their thing, no issues.

Call me crazy, but I also miss the bleeps and bloops the Tivo would give me when pressing buttons.

The DTv interface has a long way to go. Minor things seem like they should have been easy to catch out of the gate. If you have multiple dvrs and they record the same program, they show up multiple times in the universal playlist. Not being able to filter by dvr... etc


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## tonydi (Jul 10, 2010)

Greg4050 said:


> The main issue is that we lose audio when changing to certain channels.


Is this related to the HDMI/splitter issue? That's the only thing I could find with a quick search. Fortunately, that won't affect us, at least not initially, since we don't have TV's with HDMI. Hopefully that will be fixed by the time we move on to HDTV.



Greg4050 said:


> The Tivos just did their thing, no issues. Call me crazy, but I also miss the bleeps and bloops the Tivo would give me when pressing buttons.


Yes, I've been spoiled by the solid performance of our Tivos. Except for this tuner 2 issue, all of the problems we've had over the years were when DTV messed with something and broke it. And yeah, I know exactly what you mean about the Tivo sounds. I've played with my SIL's Uverse setup and without the sounds it just didn't have the same character when navigating around.



Greg4050 said:


> The DTv interface has a long way to go. Minor things seem like they should have been easy to catch out of the gate. If you have multiple dvrs and they record the same program, they show up multiple times in the universal playlist. Not being able to filter by dvr... etc


Well, to be fair, Tivo had a lot of time to perfect their interface before I came along. But as a tiny company, they were a bit more nimble in their ability to make changes and react to customer requests. DTV lumbers along but hopefully they'll get to these things soon enough. Or the new Tivo unit will show up and make these points moot....ok ok, probably not in my lifetime.


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## RACJ2 (Aug 2, 2008)

Greg4050 said:


> The main issue is that we lose audio when changing to certain channels. My other big gripe has been resolved by replacing the 30SLIP with 30skip. I'm not really sure why you would ever want the slip. I'm trying to get past the commercials as fast as possible, not have them scroll by at a faster speed.
> 
> The audio is only resolved by enabling the trick play or by switching back and forth between channels until it starts working. A reboot also resolves it, but that takes much longer... The Tivos just did their thing, no issues.
> 
> Call me crazy, but I also miss the bleeps and bloops the Tivo would give me when pressing buttons....


I like 30slip, because they sometimes show short previews of an upcoming episode of a show I watch. I actually stop to watch them. Also, if I see that I hit slip too many times, I can stop it at the point I want to start watching.

On the bleeps and bloops that your Tivo made, I'll take you up offer to call you crazy. I don't need any extra sounds when pressing buttons. And on your losing sound issue, I've never experienced that issue.


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## Greg4050 (Jun 10, 2010)

On the bleeps and bloops that your Tivo made, I'll take you up offer to call you crazy. I don't need any extra sounds when pressing buttons. And on your losing sound issue, I've never experienced that issue.[/QUOTE]

Yeah but when your box is just being slow to respond, you dont know if it's even trying to process your command w/o any feedback... so maybe you dont need it, but it has a purpose.

I dont know what causes the audio loss, buts its a multiple times a day issue. I dont have HDMI splitters, it just goes right to the tv. This is so bad that the wife is on me to downgrade or switch to Comcast as she has to deal with it all day.


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## tonydi (Jul 10, 2010)

Looks like this thread is winding down so I just wanted to jump back in here and say that I really appreciate everyone's help and suggestions. I've gotten great information and now we're going to sit down and figure out what's best for our situation. Thanks again!


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

tonydi said:


> Looks like this thread is winding down so I just wanted to jump back in here and say that I really appreciate everyone's help and suggestions. I've gotten great information and now we're going to sit down and figure out what's best for our situation. Thanks again!


Good to hear, and it's the most important thing.

In the end..you have choices and you're armed with more information.


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## satking (Oct 20, 2009)

I have two HR10-250 dvr units and old dish. I use Comcast for phone and internet. Can someone point me to a good comparison between MRV solution and setting up two new HR24 without the mrv service.

I also subscribe to the NFL sunday ticket and would like to be set up for HD for football season. Is MRV or regular setup better for NFL. Or no difference. I have two lines into my TIVO and I hooked up one line to a separate receiver and TV so I could watch two games at same time from the same room. will this still be possible? By swapping tuners I could change the games on either tv.

What is my best setup?


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## eric_n_dfw (Aug 2, 2010)

I too am looking at switching from Tivo to DTV with an HR24 + H24 setup, thanks to all here for the great info. Has added a lot for me to think about.

(My reasons are more the frustration with Time Warner Cable though)


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

:welcome_s both of you to DBSTalk!


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## DrummerBoy523 (Jan 9, 2007)

tonydi said:


> 1. It appears as though the MRV feature is similar (maybe better) than what we have with the hacked Tivos so am I not losing anything there?


MRV is pretty nice. You must have all HD boxes, but you can see any and all DVRs throughout your entire house from any box.



tonydi said:


> 2. I guess there's no way to replace the Tivo Server capability and be able to download a torrent from a missed episode and dump it to the DVR, right?


Nope.



tonydi said:


> 3. What about 30 second skip?


DTV has a skip and a slip. You can press a button and it will skip/slip 30 seconds. You can set it up so you see the video during the skip/slip or you can set it up to just jump 30 seconds.



tonydi said:


> 4. It appears as though the new DVR's can match the "record two different channels and still play back something recorded" capability, correct?


They've always been able to do this, yes.



tonydi said:


> 5. How do the new units compare to the Tivos capability for Season Passes/Wishlists?


The software is starting to mature. We've been pretty happy with them for the past couple of years as they have really improved from their first year.



tonydi said:


> 6. What about padding shows, what's the largest padding for end of shows (I watch a lot of racing and even with 3 hrs extra tacked on, sometimes red flags and rain delays can come really close to using up that extra)? Also, is there automatic padding like I have with one of the Zipper tools?


The DVR will often ask you if you want to add an extension - or you can set it up automatically. I think the largest is 3 hrs?



tonydi said:


> 7. What about buffers? Do the new units have comparable buffer capacity and the ability to come home after a show has begun and be able to hit record and capture what's already in the buffer too?


Two 90 minute buffers that allow you to switch back/forth. It is a feature called "double play"



tonydi said:


> 8. Can you be watching live TV on one tuner, pause it and switch to the other tuner and watch it and switch back and forth like this (not talking *receivers* here, but the tuners on *one box*)? That's a feature that comes in really handy when two sporting events are on at the same time.


see #7 above



tonydi said:


> 9. What equipment should I end up asking for? Even though we still don't have any HD TV's, I don't think that situation will remain for much longer. I understand I need HD DVR's in order to do MRV, so obviously I have to go that way now no matter what TV's we have. And I guess I want the ICK, even though I'm still not exactly sure what that gets me.  Because our family situation has changed, we probably don't need 8 tuners, but we need at least 4 and 6 might be nice so I'm thinking maybe 3 DVR's and 1 regular HD box (which I presume could play back what's on all the DVR's, right?).


Just call DTV and tell them how many TVs you have and that you want MRV and they will take care of it for you. The ICK gets you internet connection on the DECA cloud which allows for On Demand on any of your DVRs and they don't have to have an individual Ethernet connection run to them.



tonydi said:


> 10. And finally, what can I expect from DTV as far as "freebies"? We've never, ever asked for anything from them. We've had the same equipment since 2003, so same Triple LNB 18x20 Dish, same 4 HDVR2's and the same 5x8 multi-switch. We've never asked for promos deals, not even free Showtime, nothing. I know lots of people play the game on a semi-regular basis and get DTV to cough up some sort of concession but I refrained, mostly because there wasn't anything I needed and also because I figured I'd "save up" my markers for a situation like this.


If you don't have a commitment, then you can play the CSR roulette or you can call retention and see if they will match Dish Network's current deal of the month - or cable's etc. I was not on commitment and have been a D* customer since the beginning of time. I called and politely asked them if they could match Dish and they gave me the MRV, install, and all upgrades for $49.



tonydi said:


> I should add that our house is fully wired, each TV location has a panel with two RG6 and two CAT5e drops (the family room has two of those panels behind the TV) all going back to a central wiring closet where everything drops in including phone and Internet.


If you replace all your boxes with HD boxes in a SWM system with the MRV, then you wont need ethernet to the boxes anylonger (as long as you have the ICK).


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## eric_n_dfw (Aug 2, 2010)

I noticed one of the online install quotes listed a $29 installer fee for MRV. If I get a pair of HR24's or and HR24 + H24, and I already have Cat5e Gigabit Ethernet live at both locations, would they really need to charge that?

Also all of the quotes I see also want to charge a fee for the OnDemand install - again, if I have the ethernet in place, isn't just a matter of it being plugged in?


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

eric_n_dfw said:


> I noticed one of the online install quotes listed a $29 installer fee for MRV. If I get a pair of HR24's or and HR24 + H24, and I already have Cat5e Gigabit Ethernet live at both locations, would they really need to charge that?
> 
> Also all of the quotes I see also want to charge a fee for the OnDemand install - again, if I have the ethernet in place, isn't just a matter of it being plugged in?


With Hx24s you don't need to use ethernet, the internal DECA handles MRV. You'd just need an "Internet Connection Kit," which is a coax from your splitter to a DECA module with it's own power inserter. This will "cloud" your receivers into your network for On Demand.


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## eric_n_dfw (Aug 2, 2010)

Forgive me if this is answered in another thread, but what about Wishlists, I've gotten mixed answers over on TCF for the following question. Currently, I have a Tivo wishlist that records any "Sports:Basketball" category show that is in HD and has "Phoenix" or "Suns" in the keywords or title. The games just show up in my "Now Playing" list. Can the HR2x do this?


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

eric_n_dfw said:


> Forgive me if this is answered in another thread, but what about Wishlists, I've gotten mixed answers over on TCF for the following question. Currently, I have a Tivo wishlist that records any "Sports:Basketball" category show that is in HD and has "Phoenix" or "Suns" in the keywords or title. The games just show up in my "Now Playing" list. Can the HR2x do this?


Yes...with boolean auto records.


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## eric_n_dfw (Aug 2, 2010)

sigma1914 said:


> Yes...with boolean auto records.


Awesome. Thanks.


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## eric_n_dfw (Aug 2, 2010)

I briefly had the craptacular UVerse DVR about 2.5 years ago and one of it's most annoying flaws was the lack of the automatic rewinding Tivo does when you hit play after fast-forwarding at either of the faster speeds.

I've heard that, unlike UVerse, most DVR's do pop back a few seconds after ff'ing like Tivo does. Is that true of the HR24 too?

(PS: It's possible UVerse has added that since I last tried it)


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Yes, all the HR series DVRs have the autocorrection feature.


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## eric_n_dfw (Aug 2, 2010)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Yes, all the HR series DVRs have the autocorrection feature.


Cool. Edging closer and closer back to DTV. 

Now I just need to decide if I want 2 HR24's for $99 or the HR24 + H24 deal for $0.

I'm going to want at least one AM21 tuner, maybe 2. Has anyone had luck getting those at reduced price?


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## chscott (Apr 14, 2008)

DTV subscriber since 1998 and I have had DirecTivos since the first units hit the market. My 8 year old TV recently died so I decided to upgrade my TV and DTV service. Got the MVR setup w/ HR24. 

(If I post something incorrect because my lack of knowlege, please correct me.)

HD and HR24 Like list:

1. Hi-DEF (Wow! on the new Sony 55" LCD)
2. On demand! (Need more HD on demand though as SD On Demand looks like crap on my TV)
3. Easy favorites aka "Quicktune" (One button launch - Nice! )
4. Media Share is nice, but I need to research why my photos on my Windows Home Server do not display in folders even when I select "Folders".
5. Multi Room Viewing is a plus (no more managing 2 TiVos)
6. "Cast and Crew" feature is nice


Dislike list:

1. DVR response slows occasionally requiring a reboot
2. Guide - No list view (This is probably my #1 dislike)
3. Remote - Even after 2 weeks I am having a hard time getting used to it. The DVR controls are scattered in a sea of buttons.
4. I have had the background's that are used on the VOD pages get stuck behind the regular guide menu making the Info drop down hard or impossible to read (hard to explain), but a reboot fixes the issue.
5. I for one do miss the TiVo suggestions.
6. "Parental" feature. Someone at DTV thought it would be a good idea to instruct everyone else in parental skills. 

I know someone called TiVo's interface "cartoon network guide". I absolutely disagree. I think the biggest difference is that the TiVo interface is more intuitive. I absoutely miss it. 

I was holding out for the new DirecTiVo box but who knows if that will ever happen. I am in no way unhappy with the HR24 (I am sure DTV will fix the minor bugs). 

Even though I miss the TiVo interface I have no regrets. I think the positives outway the negative issues.


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## DogLover (Mar 19, 2007)

chscott said:


> ...
> (If I post something incorrect because my lack of knowlege, please correct me.)
> ...
> 2. Guide - No list view (This is probably my #1 dislike)


Just in case you weren't aware...
If you are in the guide, you can move the cursor to the channel number and press the info key. This will give you a list of all the programs on that channel by time. It's not as nice as the Tivo List View, but it may help you make do.


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## chscott (Apr 14, 2008)

DogLover said:


> Just in case you weren't aware...
> If you are in the guide, you can move the cursor to the channel number and press the info key. This will give you a list of all the programs on that channel by time. It's not as nice as the Tivo List View, but it may help you make do.


Thanks for the tip! Your correct, not as nice as the TiVo list, but it will come in handy.


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## bguppies (Jul 11, 2005)

DogLover said:


> Just in case you weren't aware...
> If you are in the guide, you can move the cursor to the channel number and press the info key. This will give you a list of all the programs on that channel by time. It's not as nice as the Tivo List View, but it may help you make do.


GREAT tip....

Still trying to convert from a decade of DirecTivos, to my 2 new HR24's.

Bill


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## mrfantasy (Sep 2, 2006)

I just did this on Friday. Replaced two dying DirecTiVos that were hacked and networked with MRV. I'm watching some of the shows I didn't get to before the swap over Media Share from torrented files (I'm having a hard time feeling this is immoral.) I've also configured Media Share to access my music server files (400GB of FLAC all ripped from CD) from my Linux box now running mediatomb. 

I have all 24s--2 HRs and an H24 receiver. So far we put the receiver in the bedroom because it's completely silent, but we watch a lot of TV there so we may end up putting an HR in there instead. Then again, you can set up recordings to either DVR from it, which you can't do from the HRs themselves (although I can't help but think that'd be easy to change.)

The menus will take some time figuring out, I have to slide the device switch control to turn off our ancient Toshiba TV (I assume it doesn't have discrete on/off codes), and since I only have 4:3 TVs (one is HD) there's lots of letterboxing, but I knew that going in, and the picture quality is still much better than the old SD receivers, even on an SD TV set (and I like that the recievers always output SD on the S-video and composite outputs even on the HD channels).

Having access to On Demand, remote scheduling, and other services is a huge improvement. I just wish the Android app weren't deeply broken.

I don't really miss any TiVo features we didn't have, since our TiVos were so old that's not surprising.


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## chscott (Apr 14, 2008)

mrfantasy said:


> I just wish the Android app weren't deeply broken.


Used to work on my EVO prior to 2.2 and now does not.


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## eric_n_dfw (Aug 2, 2010)

eric_n_dfw said:


> Cool. Edging closer and closer back to DTV.
> 
> Now I just need to decide if I want 2 HR24's for $99 or the HR24 + H24 deal for $0.
> 
> I'm going to want at least one AM21 tuner, maybe 2. Has anyone had luck getting those at reduced price?


Well, I ordered 2 HR24's and they were supposed to be installed yesterday (Monday) but the guy arrived with HR22's so I declined them. He said they should be getting more HR24's today or tomorrow and rescheduled me for Thursday morning.

One concern I have, though, is around the $29/month "rebate" - they told me to register online for it before install in order to get it applied on my first bill, but I've been unable to do so. Every time I try, the web site reports that I'm not eligible. I've called and Twitter'ed and have been repeatedly told that a ticket has been opened and escalated but no ETA on when my account will be fixed. I have a sneaking feeling I'll be waiting 6-8 weeks for that rebate to be applied.


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## eric_n_dfw (Aug 2, 2010)

Well, I have my system all up and am pretty happy with it (full info about my install over on TivoCommunity forum: http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8089573#post8089573 )

The service seems really nice, but I am having a heck of a time with the billing department. I've gotten most of my issues fixed by them, but they keep telling me that I don't qualify for the friend referral discount and are giving me different excuses. First email said I didn't register for it when I ordered, even though I did. Second response is trying to say it's not available along with my Costco rebate - but the CSR took the info and told me I was eligible.


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## jake14mw (Oct 5, 2007)

This was a good thread. I also have DirecTivos currently, along with one HR20 that is in the basement on a projector that I don't watch much TV on. I can't get used to the D* remote and interface, but I also want to join the 21st century! Most of the things that I like about Tivo are now in the the D* DVRs, and of course there are many additional features not available in DTivos. It will also be nice not having to wait three minutes to re-prioritize a season pass! The two main gripes I have with the HR20 vs DTivo both have to do with watching TV in 1x FF mode. The first is that it has a ridiculously long jump back in 1x. It's really unusable, and I can't believe it hasn't been fixed. The other is that the playback is not very watchable in 1x either. In the DTivo, the playback is fairly smooth. In the HR20, it's very choppy to the point where you really can't see what is happening. Is that fixable, or is it just part of the mpeg-4 technology? I use 1x FF a lot when watching time shifted sports, for example in basketball during free throws, or when a guard is walking the ball up the court.

These are annoyances, but I look forward to all the other great features, I just hope my family will be able to get used to the interface difference.


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## DrummerBoy523 (Jan 9, 2007)

jake14mw said:


> I just hope my family will be able to get used to the interface difference.


takes awhile to get used to it - we had Tivo and DTivo for many years, but we came over to the "dark side" in 2007 - so we've had the HR series DVRs for almost 3 years now. They run like a champ IMO - a bit clunky with the interface compared with Tivo, and they are slow at times although the HR24 and H24 we have now are lightning compared to our HR21.

We have had some issues with MRV/WHDVR, but we are very happy with it when it is working


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