# February 2008 Price Changes



## tsmacro (Apr 28, 2005)

I work for a phone company that sells Dish service and i'm sure all of Dish's retailers must've gotten this info today. I can't be the only one who knows what the new prices are yet, I just got an internal memo from my company telling what they are. I mean it's an annual tradition around here right? The annual price increase happens and we have a month or two howling about how evil E* and Charlie are for gouging their customers right? :lol: Anyway no I don't have a link (it's an internal company memo) but a brief synopsis goes as such: Dish Family: no increase, Dish DVR advantage: no increase, AT100 & AT100+ going up $3.00, AT200 & AT250 : going up $2.00, Everything Pak: going up $4.99.
Also looks like all the Latino paks are going up $3.00 except the "bonus pack" which is going up only $1.50. The movie Paks are staying the same. Some international are going up, but i'm not going over all of them here. Also a favorite on this board, the HD Enabling Fee will be increasing from $6.00 to $7.00.


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## Mikey (Oct 26, 2004)

IT'S AN OUTRAGE! :box: :bonk1: :listenup: :raspberry :flaiming :new_cussi :soapbox: 

Is that okay?


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## tsmacro (Apr 28, 2005)

Mikey said:


> IT'S AN OUTRAGE! :box: :bonk1: :listenup: :raspberry :flaiming :new_cussi :soapbox:
> 
> Is that okay?


Yep that's the spirit! :lol:


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

In order to be outraged one must be informed.

We should expect price increases every year (E* has not missed a year for a while). We just don't know how much or if there will be any offsets (such as channels moved down to lower tiers).

From the basic information it doesn't look too bad. AT100/AT100+ were price frozen last year so it's $3 over two years. AT200/AT250 up $2 isn't fun. $4.99 on AEP? That's an odd number. DISH DVR Advantage was introduced with a price freeze. No surprise that E* is keeping their word.

The enabling fee is irrelevant to most customers (it is included in the $20 DishHD pricing) so $6 to $7 isn't a problem. Is the $20 price going up?

The worst thing about price increases is that E* announces them now ... right before Christmas. D* announces theirs in January. For some reason "D* is going to raise their prices too" doesn't go as far as "E* just raised their prices" in an argument. Even though BOTH companies will raise their prices.


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## 459707 (Aug 15, 2007)

Doesn't Dish have a guarantee for new customers. Like one year or something?

I'm on month 6 of my 18 month commitment. Does my price go up as well, or should I get on the phone and start complaining!

-Scott


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

Well $4.99 beats the hell out of last years increase of $10.00 for former Platinum subs . So I won't ***** about it this year. I wonder if they are going to repackage their hd a different way? Maybe a tech fee for like $10.00 for hd receivers and then an hd pack fee of $10.00. Comes out the same but it breaks up the price a bit. IF DISH would make every HD account pay the tech fee of 10.00 per account and drop the hd enabeling fee, it would pay for the Voom channels and they could cut down the price of the hd pack in half. IN the end customers would think they got a bit of a price decrease if they did this. It is all about perception anyway.


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## finniganps (Jan 23, 2004)

I agree with James...keep it in perspective. I get the AT100 package. $3 over two years isn't too bad when you compare to cable. I bet the cost of your daily coffee has gone up by more then $3 over a month, yet people keep buying Starbucks.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

sdschramm said:


> Doesn't Dish have a guarantee for new customers. Like one year or something?
> 
> I'm on month 6 of my 18 month commitment. Does my price go up as well, or should I get on the phone and start complaining!


Certain packages come with a price guarantee (such as DISH DVR Advantage) until a certain date. Not all packages are price guaranteed.

When the rates change everyone gets the new rates. For me, it typically hits on the bill for March service. Sometimes E* will send out a PPV coupon with the notices.


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## razorbackfan (Aug 18, 2002)

Still cheaper than Cox cable. I'm ok with this.


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## mengel (Oct 27, 2007)

You want to complain about price increases, you should also have Charter cable! They raise their prices in our area TWICE a year! They've done this since they took over the local cable company more than 10 years ago.


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## jpeckinp (Nov 6, 2006)

finniganps said:


> I agree with James...keep it in perspective. I get the AT100 package. $3 over two years isn't too bad when you compare to cable. I bet the cost of your daily coffee has gone up by more then $3 over a month, yet people keep buying Starbucks.


I don't buy Starpukes, as a matter of fact I don't drink coffee. I use that money to pay for my Video needs


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## bartendress (Oct 8, 2007)

James Long said:


> In order to be outraged one must be informed.
> 
> We should expect price increases every year (E* has not missed a year for a while). We just don't know how much or if there will be any offsets (such as channels moved down to lower tiers).
> 
> ...


IAWTC: Though I'd be dollars to donuts that, with such a spotlight on E* and their HD content, the LAST thing they want to tinker with is HD price-points. Talk about falling out of the frying pan and into the fire!


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## tomcrown1 (Jan 16, 2006)

If everything pack goes up by $4.99 and dish does not increase their HD OFFERING I will be gone Dish will be the highest provider in my area. I wonder how many others will fine dish to cost more than local cable company.


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## Slamminc11 (Jan 28, 2005)

James Long said:


> ...The worst thing about price increases is that E* announces them now ... right before Christmas. D* announces theirs in January. For some reason "D* is going to raise their prices too" doesn't go as far as "E* just raised their prices" in an argument. Even though BOTH companies will raise their prices.


James, to be fair, Dish hasn't announced anything about a price increase as of yet. It was an internal memo at this guys office and if he works for a phone company he doesn't work for Dish so it hasn't been announced or released to the public as of yet. 
Could this guy be right, sure, but until Dish makes the announcement from their offices and not from a "phone company that sells the Dish product" internal memo that probably wasn't for the public, then it is all hearsay and can only be taken as such.


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## Mr-Rick (Dec 1, 2004)

Slamminc11 said:


> James, to be fair, Dish hasn't announced anything about a price increase as of yet. It was an internal memo at this guys office and if he works for a phone company he doesn't work for Dish so it hasn't been announced or released to the public as of yet.
> Could this guy be right, sure, but until Dish makes the announcement from their offices and not from a "phone company that sells the Dish product" internal memo that probably wasn't for the public, then it is all hearsay and can only be taken as such.


Correct, as a retailer, I have received NO information on price increases...

Rick


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Slamminc11 said:


> James, to be fair, Dish hasn't announced anything about a price increase as of yet. It was an internal memo at this guys office and if he works for a phone company he doesn't work for Dish so it hasn't been announced or released to the public as of yet.
> Could this guy be right, sure, but until Dish makes the announcement from their offices and not from a "phone company that sells the Dish product" internal memo that probably wasn't for the public, then it is all hearsay and can only be taken as such.


I agree ...
I should have included such a disclaimer in my earlier posts besides the second line of my first post: "_We should expect price increases every year (E* has not missed a year for a while). We just don't know how much or if there will be any offsets (such as channels moved down to lower tiers)._"

Often these "early leaks" turn out to be right. I would prefer to see it from a more solid source (actual E* communication to their retailers, etc.) but if this is as bad as the price increase gets it won't be too painful (as many have already noted).


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## Henry (Nov 15, 2007)

Increases are annoying and sometimes painful, but when you're out here in the Colorado sticks without available cable or OTA alternatives, you just go with the flow or do without entirely. 

I can't imagine a day without TV ... I just can't. I have horses and mini-donkeys, Monopoly, DVDs and Internet, but they can provide entertainment for just so long.  I simply gotta have my communal TV/DVR fix with sweetie at my side regardless of how inane or re-cycled or over-dramatized it is. 

Captive audiences are destined to bear the brunt. We are ... and we do.


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

The $3 increase for AT100 and AT100+ just bumps it uip to where it would have been last year if they had had the price increase, which they did not.

Got locked in until 2009 with DVR Advantage on AT100 so now instead of saving $0.98, I'll be saving $3.98 like every body else.


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## comizzou573 (Aug 6, 2007)

Jim5506 said:


> The $3 increase for AT100 and AT100+ just bumps it uip to where it would have been last year if they had had the price increase, which they did not.
> 
> Got locked in until 2009 with DVR Advantage on AT100 so now instead of saving $0.98, I'll be saving $3.98 like every body else.


I am waiting to see dish run out of business, pretty soon everyone will be with directv, since they are way cheaper than echostar now. Also dish hasnt launch the e*11 sat yet and my transponder 3 and 10 on 110 isnt working, since they launch that new sat in space that is interfering with my signal strength now and the 110 sat.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

The death of E* is often predicted and always wrong. 

E11 will help people in Hawaii see channels on 110° better. Yes, it should have gone active this month, but it's delay is not E*'s fault, isn't permanent and has little effect on E*'s plans (since E11 itself adds no bandwidth ... it just improves signal strength, mosly in AK and HI). Where E8 will go after E11 arrives is a question that MAY help with bandwidth.

And yes, D* will raise their prices in March. They won't miss a year.


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## comizzou573 (Aug 6, 2007)

James Long said:


> The death of E* is often predicted and always wrong.
> 
> E11 will help people in Hawaii see channels on 110° better. Yes, it should have gone active this month, but it's delay is not E*'s fault, isn't permanent and has little effect on E*'s plans (since E11 itself adds no bandwidth ... it just improves signal strength, mosly in AK and HI). Where E8 will go after E11 arrives is a question that MAY help with bandwidth.
> 
> And yes, D* will raise their prices in March. They won't miss a year.


does this mean i can get a dish 1000 or 500 instead of having 2 dish on my roof


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## LinkNuc (Jul 4, 2007)

BARELY CHEAPER than cable, with the ridiculus HD fee, but at least we ghet a nice comliment of HD, but as soon as Cable becomes equal I'm going back.


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## tm22721 (Nov 8, 2002)

Stagflation been there done that in the 70s.

Prices up, incomes down. Saw it in housing first, then autos, now services.

This story is so yesterday. Get over it.


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## Slamminc11 (Jan 28, 2005)

comizzou573 said:


> I am waiting to see dish run out of business, pretty soon everyone will be with directv, since they are way cheaper than echostar now. Also dish hasnt launch the e*11 sat yet and my transponder 3 and 10 on 110 isnt working, since they launch that new sat in space that is interfering with my signal strength now and the 110 sat.


Pretty soon??? WHATEVER!  
Doom and Gloom, Doom and Gloom! The Sky is falling the Sky is falling!
Hey chicken little, You want to put money on your "little preditction" of yours?


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## SMosher (Jan 16, 2006)

comizzou573 said:


> I am waiting to see dish run out of business, pretty soon everyone will be with directv, since they are way cheaper than echostar now. Also dish hasnt launch the e*11 sat yet and my transponder 3 and 10 on 110 isnt working, since they launch that new sat in space that is interfering with my signal strength now and the 110 sat.


hahhaha!! I'm sorry, the entire post is funny.


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## tsmacro (Apr 28, 2005)

James Long said:


> I agree ...
> I should have included such a disclaimer in my earlier posts besides the second line of my first post: "_We should expect price increases every year (E* has not missed a year for a while). We just don't know how much or if there will be any offsets (such as channels moved down to lower tiers)._"
> 
> Often these "early leaks" turn out to be right. I would prefer to see it from a more solid source (actual E* communication to their retailers, etc.) but if this is as bad as the price increase gets it won't be too painful (as many have already noted).


I did think I was pretty clear in stating that i'm not a Dish employee and that the info I was sharing was not officially from Dish but info that was handed down to us by our management who told us it was from Dish. Yes hearsay and not official obviously. I was surprised when I got the info yesterday morning and I when I checked in here yesterday afternoon no one was talking about it yet. I assumed if I had received this info that it must've been pretty much generally out there by now. I wasn't attempting to leak any info nor get a "sccop" or anything like that I was just sharing what I had heard.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

comizzou573 said:


> I am waiting to see dish run out of business, pretty soon everyone will be with directv, since they are way cheaper than echostar now. Also dish hasnt launch the e*11 sat yet and my transponder 3 and 10 on 110 isnt working, since they launch that new sat in space that is interfering with my signal strength now and the 110 sat.


I see this a lot, so I decided to check that out. D is SLIGHTLY less expensive for the same stuff I get now from E.

Dish DVR advantage, HD, AT250 add-on - $85.99

DirecTV competing was about $5 less if I figure it right. There website is as confusing, if not more so, than E's when trying to figure a new subscription.

I'll stick with E 'cause the Vip622 is a whole lot better than the best HDDVR from D and the HD content will be nearly the same soon.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

comizzou573 said:


> does this mean i can get a dish 1000 or 500 instead of having 2 dish on my roof


You shouldn't need a dish change. Future installs may be able to work on a Dish 500 ... since E7 is not being upgraded you may need a second dish for that reason. What size are your dishes now?


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## Sat4me (May 13, 2006)

comizzou573 said:


> I am waiting to see dish run out of business, pretty soon everyone will be with directv, since they are way cheaper than echostar now. Also dish hasnt launch the e*11 sat yet and my transponder 3 and 10 on 110 isnt working, since they launch that new sat in space that is interfering with my signal strength now and the 110 sat.


Simply not true. Directv is not way cheaper and in fact it is, in most cases, more expensive. There are differences in what programming is in what packages. In my case, Dish is cheaper than Directv. That is mostly because I have to pay an extra $12 per month for Directv sports channels that are included in the basic package with Dish.

Why on earth would you want Dish run out of business? Talk about rate increases, Directv would really put it to us then.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

BTW: Even with the rate increases suggested in this thread, E*'s packages will remain as inexpensive or less expensive than D*'s comparable packages. And D* has yet to raise their rates for 2008. Probably another reason why no one is screaming about the rate increase.

If you want to get into a deep D* vs E* comparison please take it to the General Satellite forum. Thanks!


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## mhowie (Sep 30, 2006)

lparsons21 said:


> I'll stick with E 'cause the Vip622 is a whole lot better than the best HDDVR from D and the HD content will be nearly the same soon.


Hardware is the only reason I'm still with E*.

When exactly will the HD content be on par with D*?


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## bartendress (Oct 8, 2007)

comizzou573 said:


> I am waiting to see dish run out of business, pretty soon everyone will be with directv, since they are way cheaper than echostar now. Also dish hasnt launch the e*11 sat yet and my transponder 3 and 10 on 110 isnt working, since they launch that new sat in space that is interfering with my signal strength now and the 110 sat.


That new sat in space is interfering with my signal strength now and the 110 sat too, Borat.

What did DISH Tech Support tell you when you called to complain? I called them to complain and they said that when someone takes my photograph it steals a part of my soul.


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## comizzou573 (Aug 6, 2007)

James Long said:


> You shouldn't need a dish change. Future installs may be able to work on a Dish 500 ... since E7 is not being upgraded you may need a second dish for that reason. What size are your dishes now?


119 = 24"
110 = 30"

I am hoping those, that this new satellite will all me to use a dish 1000 then i can pick up the 149, 119, 110 altogether. a dish tech guy out here told me I will be able to once the new satellite is launched. not sure if it is true or not.


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## Ray_Clum (Apr 22, 2002)

You won't be able to pick up 149, 119 and 110 on one dish. It's too large of a range. The biggest range out there is the SuperDishes that get 121, 119 and 110 or 119, 110 and 105 (IIRC).


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Agreed ... E7 at 119° isn't changing, you will need to keep that 24" working. Might as well keep the 30" for 110°.

Nothing is announced to replace the satellites at 148° ... you won't need that location for a while.


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

James Long said:


> I agree ...
> I should have included such a disclaimer in my earlier posts besides the second line of my first post: "_We should expect price increases every year (E* has not missed a year for a while). We just don't know how much or if there will be any offsets (such as channels moved down to lower tiers)._"
> 
> Often these "early leaks" turn out to be right. I would prefer to see it from a more solid source (actual E* communication to their retailers, etc.) but if this is as bad as the price increase gets it won't be too painful (as many have already noted).


E* doesn't announce price hikes around mid January usually.

FYI Comcast raised rates twice around here!


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

lparsons21 said:


> I see this a lot, so I decided to check that out. D is SLIGHTLY less expensive for the same stuff I get now from E.
> 
> Dish DVR advantage, HD, AT250 add-on - $85.99
> 
> ...


Plus Directv's web site is very confusing to see each package.


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

I am confident the information at the top of the thread is correct (I received the same basic info from another source Friday as well. But keep in mind, UNTIL DISH NETWORK OFFICIALLY RELEASES IT TO EVERYONE, IT IS NOT OFFICIAL.

I have updated the RATE HISTORY page on the EKB.

Just for a little note here. If this info is correct it will mean that
America's Everything Pack + HD has gone up by $15 a month in two years!!!!

$15 a month in two years????

$15 a month in two years!!!!!!

See ya
Tony


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

Well would the cost of $4.98 , if it is true, go to the hd channel additions this year, or to an increase in premium channel packs in AEP ? And can anyone remind us what hd channels that were added this year?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

TNGTony said:


> Just for a little note here. If this info is correct it will mean that America's Everything Pack + HD has gone up by $15 a month in two years!!!!


To be fair, the first year of that comparison AEP subs were getting a DISCOUNT on the HD package. Where everybody else had to pay a $20 difference between the metal HD and comparable AT SD package, AEP subscribers only paid $15 more if they chose HD. So last year's $10 jump (as was widely argued at the time) was a $5 increase in AEP and a loss of the HD discount.

Percentage wise:
AEP w/locals went up 5.5% last year. AEP w/locals and HD went up 9.5%.
$4.99 would be 5.2% this year (or 4.3% w/HD).

AT250 w/locals went up 5.4% last year ($2 would be a 3.4% increase this year).
AT250 w/locals and HD went up 4% last year ($2 would be a 2.5% increase this year).

AT200 w/locals went up 6.6% last year ($2 would be a 4.1% increase this year).
AT200 w/locals and HD went up 4.6% last year ($2 would be a 2.9% increase this year).

AT100 and AT100+ were price guaranteed in 2006 with no increase in 2007.
A $3 increase for AT100/AT100+ would be:
AT100+ w/locals - 7.5% over two years
AT100+ w/locals and HD - 5% over two years
AT100 w/locals - 8.5% over two years
AT100 w/locals and HD - 5.4% over two years



Mike D-CO5 said:


> Well would the cost of $4.98 , if it is true, go to the hd channel additions this year, or to an increase in premium channel packs in AEP ? And can anyone remind us what hd channels that were added this year?


With the assistance of the ekb ...

9419 A&E HD 1/30/07
9458 Cinemax HD 5/4/07
9468 VS/Golf HD 8/15/07
9469 MHD 8/15/07
9487 Discovery HD 8/15/07
9488 TLC HD 8/15/07
9489 Animal Planet HD 8/15/07
9490 Science Channel HD 8/15/07
9491 History HD 9/4/07
9500+ Big Ten Network HD and alts 9/12/07
9499 TBS HD 10/5/07
403 NHL Network HD 10/17/07
9508/9509 NBA TV HD 10/24/07

HD RSNs were also added in many areas. Did I miss any?


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

James Long said:


> To be fair, the first year of that comparison AEP subs were getting a DISCOUNT on the HD package...
> Percentage wise


Percent my BUT.  Anyone can make a price increase seem so much better by playing numbers games and minimizing comparisons. I can play that game the other way around too. Here's one for you, Since America's Everything Pack's inception, the price has gone up by 42% not including HD. 72% if you include the HD channels. Please name for me anything other than gasoline (and other fuels) that have gone up by 72% in the last 8 years. Also let's not bring up the additional channels. I do not have the option to keep the old channels I had (which I was happy with and still watch--I do not watch the channels added since then on a regular basis) and not get the additional channels.

$15 per month is still $15 per month.

And to the original discount DOESN'T MATTER! The package price for "Platinum" was what it was. It went up $10 from one month to the next and another $5 12 months later.

I am really not terribly upset by this. But I am realizing that I may have to cut back on my programming. And when I do, I have to weigh all the options due the the artificial fees that Dish imposes on non-AEP subscribers.

See ya
Tony


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## Calvin386 (May 23, 2007)

I don't know how you guys watch all those channels anyway. I have AT100HD + Locals and I can't watch it all.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

I don't watch all those channels all the time ,but if I don't sub to AEP, I get hit by dvr fees for 3 dvrs and that adds up each month.

3 x 5.98=17.94

Would you rather have more programming choices or more fees?


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## Mikey (Oct 26, 2004)

TNGTony said:


> Percent my BUT.  Anyone can make a price increase seem so much better by playing numbers games and minimizing comparisons. I can play that game the other way around too. Here's one for you, Since America's Everything Pack's inception, the price has gone up by 42% not including HD. 72% if you include the HD channels. Please name for me anything other than gasoline (and other fuels) that have gone up by 72% in the last 8 years. ...


Milk?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

TNGTony said:


> Here's one for you, Since America's Everything Pack's inception, the price has gone up by 42% not including HD. 72% if you include the HD channels.


That would be a good comparison if AEP was stagnant from day one until today. I'll even be generous and grant you the 42% increase on SD (since an AEP subscriber couldn't choose to pay the old rate and not get the added channels). But people who have HD made a choice to subscribe to HD.

Discovery HD Theater was the first? How much was it for that one channel? IIRC it was $7.99 when E* began selling a $9.99 package that included a few more channels. (That $9.99 HD package was a choice, and is still available to those who have not dropped it or upgraded to a 2006 "metal" or current DishHD plan.)

At most you can say that a Discovery HD Theater subscriber is forced to pay $2 more today than they were before ESPN, the HD Net channels and others were added. Any other HD upgrade "since the beginning of AEP" was the customer's choice. (Although over the past couple months $5 Voom customers were given the choice of dropping the channels and staying with $9.99 HD or upgrading to the $20 DishHD. I suspect the $9.99 HDPack won't last much longer.)



> Please name for me anything other than gasoline (and other fuels) that have gone up by 72% in the last 8 years. Also let's not bring up the additional channels. I do not have the option to keep the old channels I had (which I was happy with and still watch--I do not watch the channels added since then on a regular basis) and not get the additional channels.


If you made the choice to upgrade to a new HD package (metal or 2007 DishHD) you made a choice!



> I am really not terribly upset by this. But I am realizing that I may have to cut back on my programming. And when I do, I have to weigh all the options due the the artificial fees that Dish imposes on non-AEP subscribers.


The choice can be complicated. I've kept my costs down as much as possible. Everyone has to find their own pain thresholds (cost vs letting desired channels go). It is certain that prices will rise ... regardless of TV provider.


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

Calvin386 said:


> I don't know how you guys watch all those channels anyway. I have AT100HD + Locals and I can't watch it all.


I don't watch "all those channels". I watch The Science Channel, National Geographic Channel, History International, HBO and Showtime (for original series), and Starz for movies. And I watch . Find me a cheaper package than AEP that gets those channels. 

James...

None of what you typed changes the fact that 12 months before this $5 increase (if indeed it is true), there was a $10 increase. That is still $15 more per month out of my pocket. There is no analogy required. $15 per month not insignificant.

Again, I am not angry about it. Maybe disappointed is a better word. I am thinking about excersizing my only recourse and that is, not pay it. It is getting to the point that I can't afford it any more. And, because Dish penalizes subscribers without AEP with additional "because we can" fees I would have to significantly reduce the level of programming, or go to another carrier to see a reasonable bill again.

See ya
Tony


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

TNGTony said:


> None of what you typed changes the fact that 12 months before this $5 increase (if indeed it is true), there was a $10 increase. That is still $15 more per month out of my pocket. There is no analogy required. $15 per month not insignificant.


Yes ... SD AEP went up $5 and you lost the $5 discount on the HD channels.
But ... the 72% increase in cost between ancient AEP and 2007 AEP+HD was not something E* forced on subscribers. Somewhere along the line those subscribers made a choice to add HD. AEP SD remains available at a lower cost than AEP+HD.

Of course, with the packaging of Platinum HD we don't know if subscribers were getting a $5 discount on AEP for subscribing to HD or as I assume were getting a $5 discount on HD for subscribing to AEP. Since there are other discounts associated with buying AEP I prefer to think of it as just another discount given to AEP customers. Are there any discounts (other than rebates) associated with buying HD?



> or go to another carrier to see a reasonable bill again.


Good luck with that! Even if D* doesn't raise it's prices in March E*'s rates are the same or lower for comparable SD packages. I am fully expecting D* to raise their prices (including that $9.99 HD enabling fee) to where E* will remain the price leader.


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## FTA Michael (Jul 21, 2002)

TNGTony said:


> Please name for me anything other than gasoline (and other fuels) that have gone up by 72% in the last 8 years.


Health care?


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## reddice (Feb 18, 2003)

We will not know anything until it is official though I won't be suprised.


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

James,

DISCOUNT SHIDCOUNT... The price was what it was. Then it went up by $10 and 12 months later it went up by another $5.

NONE of what you said changes the fact that the ammount of money out of my pocket each and every month has gone up by $15 for the exact same package. I don't know how else to communicate that! $15 difference in 12 months is not insignificant.

You can keep on minimizing it, but it is not a small amount in any context when dealing with subscription TV.

See ya
Tony


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## tomcrown1 (Jan 16, 2006)

TNGTony said:


> James,
> 
> DISCOUNT SHIDCOUNT... The price was what it was. Then it went up by $10 and 12 months later it went up by another $5.
> 
> ...


Tony Ditto:

Dish runs the risk of brining in less revnue--How if even 25% should either leave dish or go to a lower teir package . This will lead to Dish bringing in less money and thus may lead to a further rate increases down the line so Dish can make up the loss revnue because of the 25% drop in folks getting the everything pak.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

TNGTony said:


> DISCOUNT SHIDCOUNT... The price was what it was. Then it went up by $10 and 12 months later it went up by another $5.


I agree that it is $10 and soon $15 more for you ... but I was responding to your use of the 42% and 72% figures. Using a "wrong, wrong, dead wrong" tone of keying doesn't help.



> You can keep on minimizing it, but it is not a small amount in any context when dealing with subscription TV.


Then you need to follow the advice you gave earlier in the thread and seek other options. Good luck with that!



tomcrown1 said:


> Dish runs the risk of brining in less revnue--How if even 25% should either leave dish or go to a lower teir package . This will lead to Dish bringing in less money and thus may lead to a further rate increases down the line so Dish can make up the loss revnue because of the 25% drop in folks getting the everything pak.


Less subscribers to AEP (if that were to happen) means less payments to the channels people drop. E* will still make their money on the lower packages.


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

James, I think you need to re-read my earlier posts and adjust your frame of mind. What I said was using percentages to justify a significant dollar amount increase is marketing hell! You can use numbers to come up with the rediculous numbers I came up with too. In all my statements I have maintained that the REAL dollar increase is outrageous.

Now other carriers may have the same type of increases, but how do I as a consumer communicate to the company that enough is enough?

IF I do leave leave Dish, it is because I did find a cheaper alternative. I may not get all the channel I have now. But it is getting to the point I can't afford them anyhow. And, had you really read my comments, instead of trying to be "right" you would have seen that already!


---several additional superfluous comments in this post deleted by me before hitting the send key.

See ya
Tony


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

I get it ... your costs went up and it is apparently now at a pain threshold where you need to make some hard choices. Make the choices.

How do you communicate your annoyance to E*? Direct email might work ... the comments form on the website might work. Since we're dealing with an unannounced increase you'll have to wait for the announcement to be taken seriously.

I suspect that with introductory offers you will become a D* subscriber. Personally I don't like introductory offers. They just set you up for a fall when the expire and your rates go up.

But you will find something.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

There is some rumours on another web board, that DISH will start offering a much cheaper$ 9.99 hd pack next month or after CES which ever is first. IF this is indeed what I think it is , you may see VOOM and other channels in hd without an sd equivalent, channel spun off in their own hd EXTRA pack for maybe 9.99 also. It looks like someone at DISH has been reading this & other sat web boards and seeing how the customers are not happy with hd pricing. So we may have a price increase but have a way out of paying for about $10.00 of it if the rumours and speculation I just added, is true.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

HDNet would not want to be out of E*'s base HD pack any more than they liked being kicked from D*'s base HD. HDNet Movies was allowed in D*'s extras. The other "no SD" channels E* has are Discovery HD Theater, MHD, NHL Network (why not in SD?) and of course the Voom channels.

I would expect HD Theater to stay with the base pack (as it did on D*). It would be nice if HDNet Movies and MHD stayed in the base pack as well ... that only leaves NHL Network which I don't see leaving basic (especially when NBA TV HD was made available to AT100 subs who can't get the SD channel).

It would be nice to have a $10 "enabling" package that gave all the "HD versions of SD channels" and the unique HDs mentioned above but I don't see E* charging $10 for Voom.

The oddest part of the "increase" that we are discussing here is that AEP is going up $4.99 ... Why not $5? Are they shooting for a $99.98 package rate to beat $99.99? Or could there be something really special coming such as $10 "HD enable" and $5 Voom? (A price decrease - highly doubtful.)

We also have the $6 HD Enable (for subscribers without DishHD) going up to $7. Do you really think that E* would charge $7 for no special channels and $3 more for all "HD versions of SD"? If anything is done to break the $20 package I expect it will be just splitting off Voom and keeping the rest at $15 or perhaps $13. Not $10.

Whatever they have planned we will find out in a few weeks. I hope it includes a $10 enable level of HD that includes "HD versions of SD" content. I'm not counting on it.


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## mrgoodcheese (Dec 18, 2007)

mengel said:


> You want to complain about price increases, you should also have Charter cable! They raise their prices in our area TWICE a year! They've done this since they took over the local cable company more than 10 years ago.


I agree. E* looks like a generous saint with it's pricing, compared to how horrible Charter cable has become.

I had E* years ago for about 3 years, and my bill over that time went up maybe less than $5. Charter lured me away with a low price (internet & cable for $80/month) locked for 21 months, but when that offer ran out my bill started to climb ($98) and climb ($107). I kicked Charter to the side and came back to *E a few weeks ago, after Charter was going to raised my bill to $135.... with nothing new added.:nono2: The really sad part (for them I guess) is when I called to cancel, they offered the services I had, lowered back down to $80/month for a year. They are a sad company that is going to have real problems in Wisconsin.

Anyway, $3/year increase is nothing to me.


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## bobukcat (Dec 20, 2005)

tsmacro said:


> I did think I was pretty clear in stating that i'm not a Dish employee and that the info I was sharing was not officially from Dish but info that was handed down to us by our management who told us it was from Dish. Yes hearsay and not official obviously. I was surprised when I got the info yesterday morning and I when I checked in here yesterday afternoon no one was talking about it yet. I assumed if I had received this info that it must've been pretty much generally out there by now. I wasn't attempting to leak any info nor get a "sccop" or anything like that I was just sharing what I had heard.


Thanks for sharing!!! :sunsmile:


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

Calvin386 said:


> I don't know how you guys watch all those channels anyway. I have AT100HD + Locals and I can't watch it all.


There's nothing worth watching on AT 100 anything IMHO.


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

Mike D-CO5 said:


> I don't watch all those channels all the time ,but if I don't sub to AEP, I get hit by dvr fees for 3 dvrs and that adds up each month.
> 
> 3 x 5.98=17.94
> 
> Would you rather have more programming choices or more fees?


More choices!


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

The new rumor updated that we are hearing is that the hd channels on the 110 sat would be in the new hd pack for 9.99 and the rest of the channels available at 61.5 /129 would be in the extra pack if that is what they are calling it. I also saw that both Sci-fi hd and Usa hd are on 110 but I have no idea if they too will be included in the 9.99 pack. Again this is all rumours, but it makes you think why would they spin off just a few channels as a hd pack for $9.99 but the rest of the channels would be in another extra pack. I just wonder what they will charge for those extra channels not in the $ 9.99 pack and if so will they go up on the price? 

Channels on the 110 sat excluding premiums like Hbo/showtime are: 
Tnt hd
hd theater
hdnet
hdnet movies
Espn hd
Usa hd * not available yet
Sci-fi hd * not available yet
Nfl network hd


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

James Long said:


> That would be a good comparison if AEP was stagnant from day one until today. I'll even be generous and grant you the 42% increase on SD (since an AEP subscriber couldn't choose to pay the old rate and not get the added channels). But people who have HD made a choice to subscribe to HD.
> 
> Discovery HD Theater was the first? How much was it for that one channel? IIRC it was $7.99 when E* began selling a $9.99 package that included a few more channels. (That $9.99 HD package was a choice, and is still available to those who have not dropped it or upgraded to a 2006 "metal" or current DishHD plan.)
> 
> ...


Is VOOM part of DishHD?? I noticed it last night while I was flipping channels. I started worring a little.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Paul Secic said:


> Is VOOM part of DishHD?? I noticed it last night while I was flipping channels. I started worring a little.


Yes, since February 2006 the now 15 Voom channels have been an included part of E*'s HD offering.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Mike D-CO5 said:


> The new rumor updated that we are hearing is that the hd channels on the 110 sat would be in the new hd pack for 9.99 and the rest of the channels available at 61.5 /129 would be in the extra pack if that is what they are calling it.


That makes less sense than the first rumor (splitting of Voom and potentially other channels). There is a $9.99 Alaska/Hawaii pack that is available on E11 spotbeams (mostly 110° channels but a couple of 129°/61.5° channels mirrored). I could see that offered as a mini-HD pack nationally once E10 is in place and AK/HI can receive E10 as easily as they receive E11. But I really doubt it.

Sounds more like guesswork than an actual plan. Wake me when it is a leak.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

I guess we will see after CES what is going on in the way of new promotions like the hd pack going down/split into two, etc. Maybe CHarlie will actually speak about what his plans are actually going to be for the future of hd. This is where the companies usually comment on these things.


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## kb7oeb (Jun 16, 2004)

It actually makes sense to me, its a way Dish can convert over the remaining mpeg2 HD users without a service call, all they will have to do is mail out a new receiver since many are still on a Dish 500.


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## SWTESTER (Apr 7, 2004)

LinkNuc said:


> BARELY CHEAPER than cable, with the ridiculus HD fee, but at least we ghet a nice comliment of HD, but as soon as Cable becomes equal I'm going back.


:lol: Cable equal? Comcast just adds VOD instead of HD Channels. Get DVR Advantage, add AT250 if you need NGC, Science, VS, etc. Add whatever movie channels, etc. Though they do have USA-HD here...


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## truckerd (Nov 18, 2007)

Whey does everyone always wine about price increase, You know it is going to happen If you don't like it watch tv on a free over air antenna that is life you can also go back to cable


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## webschooner (Dec 23, 2007)

I have been with E* for 6 1/2 years, and I just bought an HDTV, so am about to upgrade to HD service. Obviously I am off contract and month-to-month at this point. 

A couple of questions: Since these price increases are apparently an annual affair, if I add HD service to my package and lock myself in for 18 months as part of some deal I negotiate, and do it before a price increase is announced/takes effect, will I lock myself into the current price until my contract expires? Or not? What is the history of these price increases time-wise -- do they traditionally occur on Jan 1? If not, what date do they usually occur?


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

There is no price guarantee even if you are locked in with an 18 month committment.

There is however a freeze on price increases if you sign up for DVR advantage - no price increase until 2009.

Dish usually has price increases each February, DirecTV each March.


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## reddice (Feb 18, 2003)

truckerd said:


> Whey does everyone always wine about price increase, You know it is going to happen If you don't like it watch tv on a free over air antenna that is life you can also go back to cable


I might go back to free over the air since you really are paying for TV just to see tons of ads that I can get free over the air. Just a though.


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## rey_1178 (Dec 12, 2007)

New Dish Prices

New Dish Pricing-----2007-----2008----2008 w/locals----Change
Dish Family---------$19.99---$19.99-----$24.99--------No Change
AT100--------------$29.99---$32.99-----$37.99---------+$3.00
AT100 Plus---------$39.99---$42.99-------N/A-----------+$3.00
AT200--------------$42.99---$44.99-----$49.99---------+$2.00
AT250--------------$52.99---$54.99-----$59.99---------+$2.00
AEP-----------------$89.99---$94.99-----$99.99---------+$5.00

You have to figure the AT100 Plus w/locals will be $47.99 but this is how the info showed when I last looked at it.

HD prices are changing to a 3 tier level starting at $10.00 per month.

DIU promos are changing as well. The most notable change is that when doing a "Dishin' It Up" upgrade, the contract length is going from 18 to 24 months.

All of this should take effect in February but I am sure more HD launch dates will be officially announced once all the above is officially announced to the public. That has to be very soon. If they are planning to lock us into a longer contract, they must give everyone good news on what to look forward to (at the very least) and they must give us more HD immediately.

Most of what I stated above has already been released to retailers only.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

rey_1178 said:


> HD prices are changing to a 3 tier level starting at $10.00 per month.


I would be most interested in the 3-tier HD part of the equation as that may or may not present an opportunity to save money.


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## Jambals (Dec 21, 2007)

What happens if you just signed up for the HD DVR Advantage package? I believe my price is frozen until 2009. Currently I was told my locals were included at no extra cost. I wonder if once my price freeze ends if that means I have to pay for them. Does anyone know?


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

With the price increase (AT100 goes to what it would have been if there was a price increase on it last year), DVRAdvantage for AT100 subs is now a savings of $3.98 instead of $0.98.

Yes, if you have DVR Advantage you are locked in until 2009, $39.99 includes locaals and one DVR fee.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

Jim5506 said:


> With the price increase (AT100 goes to what it would have been if there was a price increase on it last year), DVRAdvantage for AT100 subs is now a savings of $3.98 instead of $0.98.
> 
> Yes, if you have DVR Advantage you are locked in until 2009, $39.99 includes locaals and one DVR fee.


 So that will be the case for those with DVR advantage with top 200 and top 250 as well?


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## reddice (Feb 18, 2003)

Why does everything pack always go up the most.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

reddice said:


> Why does everything pack always go up the most.


It doesn't "always". 3 years ago it actually went up less... then last year it went up more to make up for the less from the previous year... now this year it does appear to be going up more again.

But not always.


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## Hound (Mar 20, 2005)

reddice said:


> Why does everything pack always go up the most.


Maybe the $5 increase in everything pack coincides with the rumored $10 HD option.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

reddice said:


> Why does everything pack always go up the most.


AEP - $3 in 2002, $2 in 2003, $2 in 2004, $4 in 2005, $3 in 2006, $5 in 2007 = $19 of $89.99
26.7% increase - rumored $5 is 28.3% over five years
AT250 - $1 in 2002, $2 in 2003, $2 in 2004, $3 in 2005, $2 in 2006, $3 in 2007 = $13 of $52.99
32.5% increase - rumored $2 is 27.9% over five years
AT200 - $1 in 2002, $2 in 2003, $1 in 2004, $3 in 2005, $2 in 2006, $3 in 2007 = $12 of $42.99
38.7% increase - rumored $2 is 40.6% over five years
AT100 - $1 in 2002, $2 in 2003, $0 in 2004, $2 in 2005, $3 in 2006, $0 in 2007 = $8 of $29.99
36.4% increase - rumored $3 is 43.5% over five years

The top end sees more channel additions and (at the AEP level) less fees than other packages. Why wouldn't it go up more $$$ wise each year?



Hound said:


> Maybe the $5 increase in everything pack coincides with the rumored $10 HD option.


Perhaps ... but speculating about what the rumors are rarely gets to the truth. WHEN the new prices are announced we will KNOW more.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

It looks like the changes are "official" ...
The page shown in the PDF can be found by Dish Network customers poking around inside their online account.

The new "news" is the breakup of the $20 DishHD package into an apparent $10 HD upconverts/simulcast package and a $20 (total) compete HD package (including 20 more channels ... Voom and five others?).


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## Stephen J (Mar 26, 2006)

James Long said:


> It looks like the changes are "official" ...
> The page shown in the PDF can be found by Dish Network customers poking around inside their online account.
> 
> The new "news" is the breakup of the $20 DishHD package into an apparent $10 HD upconverts/simulcast package and a $20 (total) compete HD package (including 20 more channels ... Voom and five others?).


when is this effective?


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## BopMan (Nov 23, 2007)

James Long said:


> It looks like the changes are "official" ...
> The page shown in the PDF can be found by Dish Network customers poking around inside their online account.
> 
> The new "news" is the breakup of the $20 DishHD package into an apparent $10 HD upconverts/simulcast package and a $20 (total) compete HD package (including 20 more channels ... Voom and five others?).


I logged into my account but couldn't find the 2008 changes. I would like to see what HD channels are included in the $10 package.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

The channel list was not given. I'm assuming that Voom is 15 of the 20 "Ultimate" channels ... if a channel has an SD equivalent I'd expect to see it in the $10 package. If HDNet's contract with E* is anything like their contract with D* we will either see a split (HDNet in $10 Essentials, HDNet Movies in $20 Ultimate) or both channels in Essentials.

I hope E* is generous with the non-SD equivalent channels in Essentials ... but until a list is made public it's wait and see. At least it isn't a HD price increase.


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

FYI Here is the info I got about the HD packages. It's already on the EKB

*HD Essentials $10 *
includes all the HD channels that have a standard definition counterpart on the AT package one subscribes to. So National Geographic or the Science Channel would require AT250 plus the HD Essentials package. Animal Planet requires AT200 plus HD essentials. So far, all the others would be AT100 + HD Essentials.

*HD Ultimate $20 * includes all the channels you would get with HD Essentials plus 20 channels. They are
1) HDNet
2) HDNet movies
3) Universal HD
4) HD Theater
5) MHD

plus the 15 Voom channels.

The net change to anyone with Dish HD is ZERO. HD Ultimate is identical to Dish HD now.

See ya
Tony


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## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

TNGTony said:


> FYI Here is the info I got about the HD packages. It's already on the EKB
> 
> *HD Essentials $10 *
> includes all the HD channels that have a standard definition counterpart on the AT package one subscribes to. So National Geographic or the Science Channel would require AT250 plus the HD Essentials package. Animal Planet requires AT200 plus HD essentials. So far, all the others would be AT100 + HD Essentials.
> ...


Exactly what I have calculated. The reason HDNet has nothing to say about this is E*, unlike D* did not accept the contract language that was in favor of HDNet back then. Otherwise expect to see HDNet launch a similar campaign to be included in the $10 pack. Charlie is a tougher contract negotiator than D*. Except in this case it is actually bad for the HD viewers who like HDNet but don't want to pay the extra $10, just another reason to go to D*.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

TNGTony said:


> FYI Here is the info I got about the HD packages. It's already on the EKB


Thanks Tony.

Obviously I hope your information is wrong and E* will add MGM HD and Smithsonian HD to the "Ultimate" pack instead of the HDNet channels. I'd rather see Discovery's HD theater in essentials as well. But your list looks pretty solid and I would not be surprised if it is 100% correct. (Annoyed but not surprised.)

Net $0 change is the best thing about the deal. It puts the pressure on D* not to raise their $9.99 rate (even to the $10.99 rate that was originally announced in early 2007).


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## TulsaOK (Feb 24, 2004)

TNGTony said:


> FYI Here is the info I got about the HD packages. It's already on the EKB
> See ya
> Tony


I tried to follow the link in "See Details in the HD Package portion of THIS page" but the link appears to point to the history of price increases.


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

It's at the very bottom of the ratehistory page.

I would very much prefer to pay $10 for only the extra channels of HD Ultimate (VOOM + 5) and not get _any_ of the "HD Essentials." At least until Sci-Fi and USA are added.


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## jrb531 (May 29, 2004)

BobaBird said:


> It's at the very bottom of the ratehistory page.
> 
> I would very much prefer to pay $10 for only the extra channels of HD Ultimate (VOOM + 5) and not get _any_ of the "HD Essentials." At least until Sci-Fi and USA are added.


I feel the same. Why not offer both packages?

$10 for HD versions of existing channels
$10 for Unique HD channels

$18 for Both ($2 discount to entice people to take both)

This way I would not have to pay for upconverted crap and I could get the good stuff without having to pay for upconverted channels.

But then again this is no different than the current setup with is to require us to take package "A" and "B" if we want "C"

Forced channels was wrong 20 years ago and it's wrong today.

If you are going to offer packages at least let "us" pick which packages we want. I still to this day do not understand that if I am happy with the channels in package "A" and want a single channel in package "C" why I have to subscribe to all three pacakages.

This HD setup follows that trend. You want the good stuff? Well then you have to pay for the crap first.



-JB


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## TulsaOK (Feb 24, 2004)

jrb531 said:


> I feel the same. Why not offer both packages?
> 
> $10 for HD versions of existing channels
> $10 for Unique HD channels
> ...


The auto industry does the same thing with certain options. My wife just purchased a new car and wanted heated seats. It wasn't available as a stand-alone option. In order to get it, she had to purchase a package that included less desirable options. Somehow those expensive wheels and Z rated tires are connected to the front seats.


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## Chris Freeland (Mar 24, 2002)

James Long said:


> Thanks Tony.
> 
> Obviously I hope your information is wrong and E* will add MGM HD and Smithsonian HD to the "Ultimate" pack instead of the HDNet channels. I'd rather see Discovery's HD theater in essentials as well. But your list looks pretty solid and I would not be surprised if it is 100% correct. (Annoyed but not surprised.)
> 
> Net $0 change is the best thing about the deal. It puts the pressure on D* not to raise their $9.99 rate (even to the $10.99 rate that was originally announced in early 2007).


I agree, I too am disappointed that HD Net and HD theater are not going into the HD Essentials pack, it appears then that NBA-HD and NHL-HD will be included instead.

I wish E* would offer a HD Bonus pack that would add those 5 non Voom channels to HD Essentials for $5, but I guess E* wants to force us to take Voom in order to get those 5 channels and any new HD only channels added in the future like Smithsonian, MGM and MoJo. Their is a rumored 3rd HD pack, however that pack is rumored to be a $30 pack, if that is true its likely that it will be HD Ultimate + the choice of 1 premium movie package for that extra $10, kind of an HD Advantage pack I suspect.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

My best guess for a $30 pack is all the HD plus locals and no other channels.

Although I believe it would be more likely that $30 would be the cost for an Essentials level HD package with no AT pack ($40 for Ultimate HD without an AT pack, if allowed).

E* had a nearly secret $29.99 HD package before. Perhaps it is just being resurrected?


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

TNGTony said:


> FYI Here is the info I got about the HD packages. It's already on the EKB
> 
> *HD Essentials $10 *
> includes all the HD channels that have a standard definition counterpart on the AT package one subscribes to. So National Geographic or the Science Channel would require AT250 plus the HD Essentials package. Animal Planet requires AT200 plus HD essentials. So far, all the others would be AT100 + HD Essentials.
> ...


Just when I got used to VOOM, HDNET Charlie lowered the boom. I'll weigh my options in February, unless I'm covered by DVRAdvantage. Happy new year!:lol: No wonder Charlie was quiet last month.


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## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

James Long said:


> My best guess for a $30 pack is all the HD plus locals and no other channels.
> 
> Although I believe it would be more likely that $30 would be the cost for an Essentials level HD package with no AT pack ($40 for Ultimate HD without an AT pack, if allowed).
> 
> E* had a nearly secret $29.99 HD package before. Perhaps it is just being resurrected?


The $30 dollar HD pack is really AT100 +hd for 6 months. After that it goes up by $20.

http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/our_products/dish_hd/index.shtml


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

tnsprin said:


> The $30 dollar HD pack is really AT100 +hd for 6 months. After that it goes up by $20.
> 
> http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/our_products/dish_hd/index.shtml


TODAY's $29.99 HD pack is as you described, but the rumors had a new $30 DishHD package coming.


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## AVJohnnie (Jul 27, 2004)

I took a look at the PDF that James posted on the 2008 price changes and offhand don’t see anything that appears to affect me. I’ve been paying $94.99 for AEP and $20.00 for HD for a year now – but maybe I’m just missing something obvious…Guess I’ll find out in February. I just wish we were getting more HD programming – especially if my bill is actually going up. Direct is leaving Dish in the dust in that department. Well, my programming commitment with Dish on these 622s is just about up so if they don’t get with the program pretty soon (pardon the pun)… It’s gonna be – Sorry Charlie... Hello Mr. Murdoch  …


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

AEP currently should be $89.99, $4.99 less than next year's rates.

I'm looking forward to D*'s regular March price increases. We'll see how it goes.


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## AVJohnnie (Jul 27, 2004)

James Long said:


> AEP currently should be $89.99, $4.99 less than next year's rates.
> 
> I'm looking forward to D*'s regular March price increases. We'll see how it goes.


Thanks James - Your reply prompted me to take a closer look at my statement - Sure enough, what I've been paying $94.99/mo for is some sort of bundled-together contrivance referred to on the statement as "America's Everything Value Pak-America's Top 250, 4 Premium Packages Locals" so I guess my locals are bunched into that price too&#8230; Well, as I said before, February's or March's statement will tell the true tale&#8230;

I don't really care so much about these small subscription cost hikes, but I do want to see more HD offerings - dang it&#8230;


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

AEP + Locals were $94.99. (89.99 + 5)
AEP + Locals will be $99.99 (94.99 + 5) as of Feb 1.

See ya
Tony


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## YZFBossman (Aug 20, 2007)

Paul Secic said:


> Just when I got used to VOOM, HDNET Charlie lowered the boom. I'll weigh my options in February, unless I'm covered by DVRAdvantage. Happy new year!:lol: No wonder Charlie was quiet last month.


Good news, you will still have VOOM & HDNET for the same price as today.


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

TNGTony said:


> AEP + Locals were $94.99. (89.99 + 5)
> AEP + Locals will be $99.99 (94.99 + 5) as of Feb 1.
> 
> See ya
> Tony


Does AEP include VOOM????


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## tomcrown1 (Jan 16, 2006)

I went to direct TV site and their AEP is $98.95 some $25.00 cheaper than Dish. The site also indicates this includes HD pack and the sport pack. I may be missing something, but if this is true it makes Dish the most expensive TV provider.

If I go with Direct TV do I really save $30.00 ?????


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

YZFBossman said:


> Good news, you will still have VOOM & HDNET for the same price as today.


GOTCHA!! I like Film Fest HD. They've converted films going back to the 1940s. If they can do it, why can't ENCORE flip the HD switch to ON??


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Paul Secic said:


> Does AEP include VOOM????


No. The Almost Everything pack does not include Voom.
Voom will be included in the new DishHD Ultimate package for $20 ... the same price that I suspect most customers are paying for HD today.


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## DCSholtis (Aug 7, 2002)

tomcrown1 said:


> I went to direct TV site and their AEP is $98.95 some $25.00 cheaper than Dish. The site also indicates this includes HD pack and the sport pack. I may be missing something, but if this is true it makes Dish the most expensive TV provider.
> 
> If I go with Direct TV do I really save $30.00 ?????


No the HD Access Pack is not included with Premiere but the Sports packs and all movie channels are. D* also began a new package thats free for 3 months afterward its $4.95. Its called the HD Extra Pack. Includes UHD, MGMHD, Smithsonian Channel and HD Net Movies. HD Access pack is $9.95


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## Rebollos (Feb 1, 2006)

I noticed there is a new package, only available to existing customers, the Latino Everything Pack, I wonder which channels will included since it is $7 cheaper than the AEP, and also if it will be possible to add any HD package to it. Right now, for example, you can't add any HD package to Dish Latino Max.

It says Latino Everything Package "not available to new customers"


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## jrb531 (May 29, 2004)

YZFBossman said:


> Good news, you will still have VOOM & HDNET for the same price as today.


You know I find it kind of funny that we currently pay more than D* for less HD channels and some are actually happy that the price is not going up for HD!

Myself? I expected a $5 reduction!

Any mention about the issue with paying $6 "per" HD DVR vs D*'s $5 per account?

You see I factor in all of this and while it's nice of them to be able to break that $20 into two packages....

Why can't I get package #2 for $10 and skip paying $10 for upconverted stretch-o-vision?

This bites and will be the final nail in the coffin for many long time Dish sunscribers. I'll wait until the show is over but if Dish thinks they can charge me multiple $6 DVR fees and continue to charge $20 for less HD channels than D*'s $15 they are nuts.

Come on... the 622/722 is a nice box but I'll not be ripped off here.

How many people will have multiple HD DVR's in 2008? 2009? 2010?

How long will Dish get away with ripping people off with not only charging a total 100% BS DVR fee in the first place but charging it over and over and over.

What I would pay just to be able to get on one of those Charlie Chats and ask him this question 

-JB


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## jrb531 (May 29, 2004)

James Long said:


> No. The Almost Everything pack does not include Voom.
> Voom will be included in the new DishHD Ultimate package for $20 ... the same price that I suspect most customers are paying for HD today.


Such a deal 

It's already too much and they want us to be happy they did not raise the price.

What's even more sad is that many of us are actually happy about the current situation.

Call me crazy but should we not be paying "less" than D* for HD if we have less HD channels and not more?

-JB


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Same rant, different thread jrb531. It's easy for one to say how E* should run their business when one has absolutely no control over the situation nor any responsibility for how "their way" would affect the health of the business.

When you are a billionaire owner of the third largest MVDS company in the US perhaps your advice will be taken seriously.

BTW: Since you asked us to call you crazy, "You're crazy".

Wait for the D* price increase ... Will you excuse it no matter how big it is because they have "more HD channels"? Are you giving D* a pass on their current higher package prices for LESS SD channels because you are so fixated on fees?

Wait for D*'s increases - and I'll keep the microwave ready to warm up the crow.


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## dmurphy (Sep 28, 2006)

James Long said:


> Wait for the D* price increase ... Will you excuse it no matter how big it is because they have "more HD channels"? Are you giving D* a pass on their current higher package prices for LESS SD channels because you are so fixated on fees?
> 
> Wait for D*'s increases - and I'll keep the microwave ready to warm up the crow.


Do you have any knowledge of a pending DirecTV increase, or is it just hearsay & conjecture?

DirecTV routinely goes multiple years between price increases. And typically, even when they do, existing customers get 'grandfathered' at the old price, or a 'reduced' increase.

I'm not saying there won't be an increase -- there very well may be -- but it's not as sure of a bet as some folks like to think it is.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

dmurphy said:


> DirecTV routinely goes multiple years between price increases.


Which was the last year they skipped? I would not call it routine.

Annual price increases are now typical.


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## DishTSR3Mentor (Nov 3, 2006)

ok, without giving much away - cause I'm sure someone already has - HD PROGRAM PACKAGES ARE CHANGING... I am contractually not supposed to discuss how this will be done because of my employment arrangement - I will say that there is actually some merit to the 2 HD pack rumors - but that is as far as I can go. 

Hope that helps. I'm sure it just confuses everyone even more, but at least I tried.


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## DishTSR3Mentor (Nov 3, 2006)

As for the DVR guy who's worried about being ripped off.... the answer to your issue is DVR ADVANTAGE - 

AT100 - 39.99 
AT 200 - 49.99
AT 250 BONUS - 59.99
(prices include 1 DVR)

All premiums are $10 on the DDA which is a discount of $3 for SHO/MAX/STARZ and $4 for HBO/PLAY.... 

Our HDDVR is the ONLY DVR that has expandability - It's the BEST DVR on the Planet -
It's worth $6 a month - but you wouldn't be paying $6 if you had DDA. The most the average customer would be paying is $8 for 2 DVRS with DDA ($2 inside the DDA core and $5.98 for the additional DVR) that's just $4 a DVR. It's not $5 per account (or whatever you eluded to) but you get what you pay for. $5 per account for their DVR... okie doke.. have fun with that... I'll keep my 622 connected to my Slingbox Solo with Seagate 750GB EHD.

No matter what it costs.


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## DishTSR3Mentor (Nov 3, 2006)

OH and I almost forgot. The DDA prices are LOCKED - no changes thru the end of 2009. That's just icing on the cake. Especially since price changes are unfortunately going to happen no matter what company you're with.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

DishTSR3Mentor said:


> ok, without giving much away - cause I'm sure someone already has - HD PROGRAM PACKAGES ARE CHANGING...


To something like this? 


James Long said:


>





DishTSR3Mentor said:


> As for the DVR guy who's worried about being ripped off.... the answer to your issue is DVR ADVANTAGE -


jrb531 is a regular who complains about MULTIPLE DVR fees - comparing one fee per account to one fee per DVR. DVR Advantage helps with the first DVR (and any potential price increase this year). The second feeable DVR remains $5.98.

It is an issue as some people do have more than one DVR. The issue is exaggerated when the discussion turns to people with three or four DVRs. Not the typical customer.


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## dmurphy (Sep 28, 2006)

James Long said:


> Which was the last year they skipped? I would not call it routine.
> 
> Annual price increases are now typical.


Good question - it's hard for me to keep track since I've changed packages and features so many darned times.

What I will say, however, is that I've been around to see the DVR fee go down from $13/mo to $5/mo, and then the HD fee from $10.99 to $9.99 (big deal...) It surprised me, but at least there have been several decreases to go along with the increases. Doesn't mean they're equal value, but at least -something- went down ...

I do remember going several years between rate hikes at one point, but I don't remember how long ago that was. You're probably right - it's been pretty consistent the last few years. My apologies.

What I will say is that a dollar or two isn't going to really make or break me ....


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

We'll know more about D*'s prices when they leak or announce them.
Probably even have a thread in the D* forum for that.


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## Link (Feb 2, 2004)

A $5 increase for AT200 in two years time ($3 last year and now $2 this year) is ridiculous especially when they don't add many new channels (like GAC) to it. A $1 or so increase every year wouldn't be so bad. Satellite increases just as much as cable does now and with these continued increases each year, a time will come when no one can afford cable or satellite. It is unbelievable that expanded basic cable costs about $55 now when ten years ago it was around $35. They are going to have to offer more options for less channels. I will say Dish offers more packages options than any other service.


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## jrb531 (May 29, 2004)

James Long said:


> Same rant, different thread jrb531. It's easy for one to say how E* should run their business when one has absolutely no control over the situation nor any responsibility for how "their way" would affect the health of the business.
> 
> When you are a billionaire owner of the third largest MVDS company in the US perhaps your advice will be taken seriously.
> 
> ...


Say they do raise prices in a few months. What about all these months of collection higher fees for less?

What about the $6 per DVR vs $5 per account (both BS either way)?

While I may sound like a broken record all you can do is say that Dish charges whatever they want and if we don't like it then we can leave.

How do "you" justify to yourself Dish charging $6 per DVR?
How do "you" justify to yourself Dish charging more for HD than D*?

I know you are a HUGE Dish supporter but the way I always measure the difference between a fanboy and someone being objective is to ask them what faults they find with both sides.

Now I know all about the faults you claim for D* but what about E*?

Do they do no wrong? If they do some wrong are we just supposed to sit down and take it?

These fees are total BS and I fail to see how, as you claim, D* charges more for SD programming. I do see that D* has a slightly different lineup but the way I see it the only thing that Dish has over D* right now is a slightly better DVR and less startup costs.

Now while these startup costs may be nice for someone new to Dish what does it do for those who have their own boxes?

Paying more fees "might" be justified if Dish was recouping costs for hardware but what if you do not need their hardware? Why are we paying "punishment" fees if we buy our own boxes?

Why do we have to pay a huge No-HD fee to Dish if we buy our own Box and do not want HD?

It's all total BS and you have never been able to answer why aside form saying "because they can"

This is acceptable to you?

Ok I'm crazy. Everyone else on the planet aside form me loves paying more for less. They all love buying their own boxes and paying a punishment fee for doing so. They love per-DVR BS fees and love that we now pay more $$$ for less HD channels.

Yep.... Dish is wonderfull and we should be honored that they decided to hold the line on their already overpriced HD when, in fact, they should be lowering it!

-JB


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## jrb531 (May 29, 2004)

DishTSR3Mentor said:


> As for the DVR guy who's worried about being ripped off.... the answer to your issue is DVR ADVANTAGE -
> 
> AT100 - 39.99
> AT 200 - 49.99
> ...


What do we get for that $6 per month per DVR fee? What "service" does Dish provide the DVR customer that costs not only a DVR per account but also an expense that Dish incurs for EVERY DVR?

I will NEVER accept this fee until Dish tells me what extra service a DVR owner gets over a non-DVR owner that is not included in the monthly $6 rental (or $6 account fee if you own your own DVR)

Truth be told the fee is utter and complete BS and every time I call CS to ask what it pays for I get told a different story because no one knows what the fee is for aside from the real deal which is that the DVR exists because stupid people (myself included) continue to pay for it because we are addicted to DVR's.

Did you really say that the Dish DVR is the only expandable one? Is that why Dish charged $40 to turn on a feature that is built into all the 622/722's?

I guess very soon Dish will add a new fee when we try to skip a commerical that says:

"Would you like to skip this commercial for 5 cents?"

Heck why not really nickel and dime us to death while they continue to "claim" that Dish is so cheap and how we should be honored to pay whatever fee's they feel like charging us.

Grrrrr

-JB


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## jrb531 (May 29, 2004)

James Long said:


> To something like this?
> 
> jrb531 is a regular who complains about MULTIPLE DVR fees - comparing one fee per account to one fee per DVR. DVR Advantage helps with the first DVR (and any potential price increase this year). The second feeable DVR remains $5.98.
> 
> It is an issue as some people do have more than one DVR. The issue is exaggerated when the discussion turns to people with three or four DVRs. Not the typical customer.


James why do you feel that the typical customer in 2008 only wants to watch HD on 1-2 sets?

I'm a late to HD person and I already have 4 HD sets in my house. Almost every single set now sold is HD. As people buy new HD sets they want to watch real HD and not some downconverted HD to SD.

D* charges one BS $5 DVR fee per account. As people with D* add more HD sets they do not pay more.

As Dish people add more HD sets we pay $6 each! That DHA plan knocks off $3.88... not even one "full" HD fee so lets do the math:

D* = $5 for two boxes
E* = $6+$6 = $12 - DHA $3.88 = $8.12

So if you happen to have DHA you only pay $3.12 more. Hardly worth your time right?

Well lets go wild here and say some nutbag wants 3 HD sets:

D*= $5 for three boxes
E* = $6+$6+$6 = $18 - DHA $3.88 = $14.12 or $9.12

Want 4 HD sets?

D*= $5 for four boxes
E* = $6+$6+$6+$6 = $24 - DHA $3.88 = $21.12 or $15.12

Now I'm not even mentioning that in addition to those fees that D* only charges $5 per rental box vs $6 for Dish and now the difference in cost is crazy!

So lets see how 2008 shapes up. Lets see how many whack jobs out there actually want to watch HD on more that one HD set in their home.

And once again (like a broken record) what the heck is that HD DVR fee paying for anyway? Why on every box?????

-JB


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Too many words, jrb531, too many words. Most of them as seen in other threads. I'll let the responses in other threads speak for the things that are (apparently) not changing.

The only _fee_ that has been reported as going up is the odd "no HD" fee. $6 for owning a ViP without subscribing to HD goes to $7. The good news is that for $10 (only $3 more than the new fee, $4 more than the old) people will be able to simply subscribe to HD Essentials instead of paying that fee.

I'm sure you can come up with a derogatory name for those who have a ViP receiver and don't subscribe to HD programming. The name calling in your post suggests that you are good at that task.

You may want to check your statistics: "Almost every single set now sold is HD."
By what source do you make that claim?

BTW: Minor nit pick, but D*'s DVR fee is currently $5.99, not $5.


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## Mr-Rick (Dec 1, 2004)

jrb531 said:


> James why do you feel that the typical customer in 2008 only wants to watch HD on 1-2 sets?
> 
> I'm a late to HD person and I already have 4 HD sets in my house. Almost every single set now sold is HD. As people buy new HD sets they want to watch real HD and not some downconverted HD to SD.
> 
> ...


Interesting point. But consider this... DirecTV charges new customers $299 upfront for an HDDVR for one room with $100 rebate. What does DISH charge upfront for a 722 HDDVR for two rooms? Zero. Pay me now or pay me later. More folks like the zero cost upfront.

Now factor that into your calculations...


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Lets not ... a D* vs E* war belongs elsewhere - at best in the General Satellite forum.


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## neilo (Aug 7, 2006)

Mr-Rick said:


> Interesting point. But consider this... DirecTV charges new customers $299 upfront for an HDDVR for one room with $100 rebate. What does DISH charge upfront for a 722 HDDVR for two rooms? Zero. Pay me now or pay me later. More folks like the zero cost upfront.
> 
> Now factor that into your calculations...


Unless you are an existing customer and want to upgrade from an SD to HD DVR, then you have to pay $179 or $199 or so.

The new HD offer prices shed new light on the Dish HD "free for 6 months offer." It appears that if you just wanted the HD Essentials package that you would be paying much more for the "free for 6 months" if they start charging you $20/month after the first 6 months and you have to stay with the offer for 18 months. I guess, though, it might work out that you would have the "higher" package for 6 months and then could switch to HD Essentials for the next 12.

Neil


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

neilo said:


> Unless you are an existing customer and want to upgrade from an SD to HD DVR, then you have to pay $179 or $199 or so.


That's where the current HD discount helps.



> The new HD offer prices shed new light on the Dish HD "free for 6 months offer." It appears that if you just wanted the HD Essentials package that you would be paying much more for the "free for 6 months" if they start charging you $20/month after the first 6 months and you have to stay with the offer for 18 months. I guess, though, it might work out that you would have the "higher" package for 6 months and then could switch to HD Essentials for the next 12.


Until the new prices are official and we get the terms on the new version of the offer it is a bit early to do the math.

In the past these offers (such as free HBO/Cinemax) have allowed people to cancel at the end of the term. I expect that IF the "free HD" offer requires HD Ultimate subscription that one will be able to scale back to HD Essentials at the end of the six months.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

> How do "you" justify to yourself Dish charging more for HD than D*?


That one is easy. Dish has better HD programming than Directv (for me).


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## jrb531 (May 29, 2004)

Mr-Rick said:


> Interesting point. But consider this... DirecTV charges new customers $299 upfront for an HDDVR for one room with $100 rebate. What does DISH charge upfront for a 722 HDDVR for two rooms? Zero. Pay me now or pay me later. More folks like the zero cost upfront.
> 
> Now factor that into your calculations...


I care not what "teaser" deals both companies get in order to lure new customers. I even said that for new customers Dish is the better deal.

I am talking about the long term D* vs E* customer who wants to add more HD DVR's as they increase the number of HD sets in their home.

Let's say that a long term D* customer is charged $299 and E* is charged $179

You save $120 to start with Dish

Now add that extra $6 a month (DVR) on top of the extra $1 for a rental box ($6 vs $5) and you get $7 a month extra you pay for that $120 "initial" savings.

12 months = $84 extra for first year with Dish
24 months = $168 extra for 2 years with Dish
36 months = $252 extra for 3 years with Dish

So that initial $120 savings ends up costing you big time in the end and these extra fees "NEVER" stop!

So thanks but no thanks for the discounted boxes and boxes I might add you are just paying to rent. They never become yours after years of paying these fees. They are a cash cow for Dish and why I suspect they punish you by buying your own boxes.



-JB


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## jrb531 (May 29, 2004)

James Long said:


> Too many words, jrb531, too many words. Most of them as seen in other threads. I'll let the responses in other threads speak for the things that are (apparently) not changing.
> 
> The only _fee_ that has been reported as going up is the odd "no HD" fee. $6 for owning a ViP without subscribing to HD goes to $7. The good news is that for $10 (only $3 more than the new fee, $4 more than the old) people will be able to simply subscribe to HD Essentials instead of paying that fee.
> 
> ...


But once again James (and I fail to see why it's so hard to just answer this)

If I buy my 622/722 outright and subscribe to no HD then why should I pay even 1 cent in penalty fees if I choose not to subscribe to HD?

It's my box.... I can take a sledge hammer to it if I want. If I wanted the 622/722 because it's a better box and/or I just wanted to larger hard drive....

You know what.... why does it matter "why" I wanted it.... I bought it 100% and I can do what I want with it.

So I call Dish and ask for nothing but a basic SD package and they charge me a no-hd fee why?

How could they possible justify charging me anything? Just because I bought a certain brand of box means they can just charge me for nothing... no service whatsoever just a punishment fee because I choose not to subscribe to what "they" want me to subscribe to.

-JB

P.S. And James why do renters pay a $6 rental fee and no service charge and owners pay no rental fee but a (what a surprise!) $6 service charge? If it "really" costs Dish $6 to service each box then why do renters not pay this? We all know that the $6 rental fee just covers the cost of providing you with a discounted box... right?


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

My guess.... Just a guess since I was not in the room where these decisions made...

They want to discourage the practice that you are describing. I am sure these boxes are sold at a loss and they want the HD boxes to be used for managing HD content and the SD boxes to manage SD content. Rather than not allow activation of a HD box unless the user subs to HD content, they decided that if you really want to go this route by all means go that way but there is a penalty for doing so. 

I could definitely see a company not wanting people purchasing or asking for an HD box to lease when their intention is only to use it for SD viewing purposes. Sometimes fees are put in place to allow people a choice but to make that choice less palatable since it is not a practice a company wants its customer base to be doing a lot of. 

Fees don't always have some value added proposition to them. I am sure as consumers we feel they should, but there are other business reasons why a fee is created.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

jrb531 said:


> If I buy my 622/722 outright and subscribe to no HD then why should I pay even 1 cent in penalty fees if I choose not to subscribe to HD?
> 
> It's my box.... I can take a sledge hammer to it if I want. If I wanted the 622/722 because it's a better box and/or I just wanted to larger hard drive....
> 
> You know what.... why does it matter "why" I wanted it.... I bought it 100% and I can do what I want with it.


This is the easiest question in the world to answer. IF you buy a ViP622/722, you own it and can do whatever you want with it for "free" after that... UNLESS what you want to do with it is connect it to Dish network and use their services. For that you have to pay, and you pay what they ask for or you can go to another provider if you like 

I bought my car... I own it... so why do I have to pay to drive on some roads (toll roads) and not others? I own my car, I should be able to drive it wherever I want!


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## Link (Feb 2, 2004)

jrb531 said:


> What do we get for that $6 per month per DVR fee? What "service" does Dish provide the DVR customer that costs not only a DVR per account but also an expense that Dish incurs for EVERY DVR?
> 
> I will NEVER accept this fee until Dish tells me what extra service a DVR owner gets over a non-DVR owner that is not included in the monthly $6 rental (or $6 account fee if you own your own DVR)
> 
> ...


I agree Dish is the absolute worst at pretending their service is so much cheaper and better than anyone else's yet they seem to want to get every cent they can out of their customers.

I guess basically the $6 DVR fee is the ability to be able to record. Cable found a way to price gouge their customers by charging up to $8 or $9 for a DVR recording free.

The $6 HD enabling fee is also ridiculous but maybe now with an affordable ($10) HD package, people will subscribe to it. I wasn't paying $20 for an HD package and took my 211 receiver of my account until an affordable HD package was offered.

I still use a 721 DVR because I don't want to pay a recording fee.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

jrb531 said:


> Now add that extra $6 a month (DVR) on top of the extra $1 for a rental box ($6 vs $5) and you get $7 a month extra you pay for that $120 "initial" savings.


Apples and oranges again!

D* charges a $6 DVR fee as well ... and the first box rental is included in the package price (although current customers using DIU have had the pleasure of paying $6 per month for their first box).

Please be PRECISE in what you are comparing - because at this point, it appears that you are using more of that "intellectual dishonesty". How many receivers is this "sample" customer leasing?



jrb531 said:


> If I buy my 622/722 outright and subscribe to no HD then why should I pay even 1 cent in penalty fees if I choose not to subscribe to HD?


That is an excellent question for DISH Network. Ask them.



> So I call Dish and ask for nothing but a basic SD package and they charge me a no-hd fee why?


Because it is their policy to do so. Too simple of an answer? If you want to question their policy you'll have to take it up with DISH Network.



> P.S. And James why do renters pay a $6 rental fee and no service charge and owners pay no rental fee but a (what a surprise!) $6 service charge? If it "really" costs Dish $6 to service each box then why do renters not pay this? We all know that the $6 rental fee just covers the cost of providing you with a discounted box... right?


Assume what you want. E* has a set schedule of fees and policies. If you don't agree with them there is another company out there.


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## kb7oeb (Jun 16, 2004)

Unless something has changed you can't lease a ViP and not have HD so the no HD fee only punishes those who own and do not subscribe to a current HD package.

I was seriously considering dropping Dish and the $1 increase didn't help but then I was able to get the free Cinemax deal and now I feel I am getting a reasonable amount of programing for my money.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

I'm always puzzled. For pricing you can go to the Dish web site build-your-own service page and find out what it's going to cost you to get certain basic elements of a package ignoring those new subscriber - new something deals. It appears I can find out the same information for Comcast (my cable alternative) and for Direct. I don't see anything misleading about prices to lease a DVR, get HD, get a package of cable channels and premium channels. With satellite, the locals channel availability gets a little fuzzy. The boxes (DVRs and receivers) are a bit complicated and it takes research. But IMHO Dish pricing is competitive and their structure is not more confusing than anyone elses.

Yes, if you read my comments elsewhere, I am upset with Dish for not clearly laying out the current situation in detail for new HD channels. But I agreed to pay $20 per month for the HD available at the time I signed up.

You do appreciate what you have now if you are old enough to remember what it was like _and what it cost in terms of hours of work _to have one black dial phone on a 4-party line from the phone company and black and white snowy TV pictures offered by three off-the-air channels from ABC, CBS, and NBC (there was something called Dumont, I think the CW of today). The one consolation was pricing was really simple then.


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## jrb531 (May 29, 2004)

Ron Barry said:


> My guess.... Just a guess since I was not in the room where these decisions made...
> 
> They want to discourage the practice that you are describing. I am sure these boxes are sold at a loss and they want the HD boxes to be used for managing HD content and the SD boxes to manage SD content. Rather than not allow activation of a HD box unless the user subs to HD content, they decided that if you really want to go this route by all means go that way but there is a penalty for doing so.
> 
> ...


If they want to discourage this practice then do not sell them or if you do sell them then raise the price so you are not taking a lose.

Nothing justifies what they do now IMHO which is to cheat people by charging a fee that amounts to nothing more than a punishment because you do not subscribe to what "they" think you should subscribe to.

-JB


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## jrb531 (May 29, 2004)

HDMe said:


> This is the easiest question in the world to answer. IF you buy a ViP622/722, you own it and can do whatever you want with it for "free" after that... UNLESS what you want to do with it is connect it to Dish network and use their services. For that you have to pay, and you pay what they ask for or you can go to another provider if you like
> 
> I bought my car... I own it... so why do I have to pay to drive on some roads (toll roads) and not others? I own my car, I should be able to drive it wherever I want!


This is an answer? They can charge whatever they want?

The toll road example does not hold wax (I thought these comparisons were banned LOL) because a toll road is not the only way to get somewhere - you have a choice... and besides that fee pays for the upkeep of that road.

What does the the "no hd" fee pay for?
What does the DVR fee pay for?

Dish can charge "mark up" any service they provide but I want them to at least provide "some" service for any item on my bill and these fees are total made up BS that pays for NOTHING!

I just cannot believe that people here can defend Dish on these fees. Saying that the other guy charges BS fees to just means to me that we need to stop all of this sillyness instead of trying to defend them because they "may" cheat us a bit less than the other companies.

-JB


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## jrb531 (May 29, 2004)

James Long said:


> Apples and oranges again!
> 
> D* charges a $6 DVR fee as well ... and the first box rental is included in the package price (although current customers using DIU have had the pleasure of paying $6 per month for their first box).
> 
> ...


Well according to D* it's $5 per box rental (Dish has a nice lawsuit on their hands as they STILL to this day have $5 per box on their web page but they charge $6)

Can anyone with D* verify if their "per account" DVR fee is $5 or $6 and what their HD DVR rental really is?

Thanks

-JB


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## jrb531 (May 29, 2004)

kb7oeb said:


> Unless something has changed you can't lease a ViP and not have HD so the no HD fee only punishes those who own and do not subscribe to a current HD package.
> 
> I was seriously considering dropping Dish and the $1 increase didn't help but then I was able to get the free Cinemax deal and now I feel I am getting a reasonable amount of programing for my money.


I started out with a leased 622 with HD and dropped the HD because "I" felt at the time the HD content was not worth $20.

It does happen but my question was more for those who own their own 622/722 outright. These "punishment" fees are wrong and if Dish wants to get more money out us then they can raise their rates instead of playing this STUPID game of "claiming" to be the low cost "for the people" pay TV service when this low price is only obtained because they are able to shift part of the package price to nickel and dime fees that are not optional.

-JB


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

jrb531 said:


> This is an answer? They can charge whatever they want?
> 
> The toll road example does not hold wax (I thought these comparisons were banned LOL) because a toll road is not the only way to get somewhere - you have a choice... and besides that fee pays for the upkeep of that road.


You most certainly do have a choice... Go to DirecTV or to cable or just to OTA. You could also read books or buy DVDs or go to your local theater and just pay for the one movie you want to see. There are also places to rent DVDs if you don't want to purchase.

Lots of choices available to you... but if you want to just complain, you can certainly stay where you are and proclaim your unhappiness... just don't claim you have no other choice.


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## saltrek (Oct 22, 2005)

People are not necessarily defending Dish or happy with the charges - they are trying to give you answers to the questions you keep asking - over and over and over.

Nobody here knows what the logic is for the enabling fee. Ron's answer started with "this is just a guess". That's all people are doing are attempting to theorize to help answer your questions. But no answer will help.

You are obviously paying a fee you don't want to pay. Asking over and over won't change that. Coming up with alternatives for Dish to charge customers won't make them change their fee structure, unless you can get a job with them in upper management.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

jrb531 said:


> Nothing justifies what they do now IMHO which is to cheat people by charging a fee that amounts to nothing more than a punishment because you do not subscribe to what "they" think you should subscribe to.


Their box, their rules. When you are the CEO of a satellite company (or in a position to influence policy) you can make different rules. For now, you can only choose a company that has rules that you can accept.



jrb531 said:


> Can anyone with D* verify if their "per account" DVR fee is $5 or $6 and what their HD DVR rental really is?


You can verify it yourself by going to D*'s website and following the process for ordering service (order now). When you select a DVR and continue the $5.99 is added.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

jrb531 said:


> If they want to discourage this practice then do not sell them or if you do sell them then raise the price so you are not taking a lose.
> 
> Nothing justifies what they do now IMHO which is to cheat people by charging a fee that amounts to nothing more than a punishment because you do not subscribe to what "they" think you should subscribe to.
> 
> -JB


Well perhaps that is what they should do.. Charge full pop for the device so that the small percentage of people who want to use the device for SD only viewing can and the people
who actually are using the product for its intended purpose can pay a higher price..

Hmm how about this one... Charge the SD customers that wants to buy an HD DVR for SD only use the full cost of the hardware. Would that be far? I am sure others would scream unfair at that cost structure too.

I know you feel that no fee should be charged for people that want to purchase the HD DVR for SD only use, but I am sure you would also be upset if one could not use the HD receiver for only SD use if they removed the fee and disallowed this configuration.

Well looking at it from the other side of the fence, allowing this type of scenario HD DVR for SD only use drives up costs because HD receivers cost more than SD receivers and to have them tied up to SD accounts does not make good business sense to me.

Like I said.. it was a guess and given the nature of the charge I don't think it is that far from the truth...

I am not a big fan of extra fees myself. The one I personally feel needs re-thinking is the per DVR fee. I think one DVR fee per account is more acceptable, but then again if it bothered me that much I would have switched when it was introduced. The fee above to me was done for business reasons. Most people would either choose to move to HD or get an SD DVR which is what the customer should be using giving there use case and appears to acheive the goals of the fee.

Sorry though from a consumer point of view it is not that attractive, IMHO it is not cheating anyone. It is not hidden, it is well understood. Yes.. I can totally see why some dont' like it.. Heck I don't like it.. But given the fact that this is using a receiver intended for one purpose for another, I can see why the fee was created.


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## jrb531 (May 29, 2004)

Ron Barry said:


> Well perhaps that is what they should do.. Charge full pop for the device so that the small percentage of people who want to use the device for SD only viewing can and the people
> who actually are using the product for its intended purpose can pay a higher price..
> 
> Hmm how about this one... Charge the SD customers that wants to buy an HD DVR for SD only use the full cost of the hardware. Would that be far? I am sure others would scream unfair at that cost structure too.
> ...


I don't think Dish is subsidising those who purchase a 622/722 outright but if they are then why? Why even bother to sell a reduced price 622/722 and why not offer both options?

I know you are trying to "guess" at answers and I have called Dish but you know how far that goes 

I guess I'm still a bit miffed that anyone can defend some of these charges. Yes I know many of you have some link to Dish in some small way or are huge fans and it can be hard to say anything ill against your fav company but some of these "nickel and dime" fees are just not right and I personally feel that we can effect change but not if we have people with the "it's only a small fee so who cares" attitude.

I wonder if we contribute to the small fees being tacked on because we bend over and take it each time they add a new one.

At what point will we all say that enough is enough?

-JB


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Even if the boxes are not subsidized and it is possible they are not, my points still have some merit I believe. There is more to the cost of a box than labor and parts. 

As to defending.... Well I would not consider it defending. Fees are part of the game and personal I like them either. Makes it hard to compare companies and always brings up topics like this that are hard to discuss because none of us are privy to the fee discussions and most definitely some of them are over the top (Marketing gone amuck).

As I have said before... Nothing wrong with voicing one's opinion about fees if it does not become ones crusade on the board... Dish and DirecTV definitely need to hear the feedback. It also is ok for one to defend the fees if they feel so as long as they also don't make it their crusade. Both sides have a right to be heard on the subject and both viewpoints have a right to be heard and should be respected....

Well I think I have made my points to the best of my ability... All I can say is I hope Dish is listening. One thing for sure... As long as we have competition the overall price of these services should remain close across the providers


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## jrb531 (May 29, 2004)

Ron Barry said:


> Well I think I have made my points to the best of my ability... All I can say is I hope Dish is listening. One thing for sure... As long as we have competition the overall price of these services should remain close across the providers


Yes you have and I do agree 100% that we need "real" competition.

Now we have a limited form of competition with the distributors (D*, E*, Cable) but now how do we address what I consider the real problem here.... the programmers who tie the distributors hands with "must carry or else" contracts.

Do you not agree that they hold undue influence on the packages and how we choose to get pay TV?

I see no problem with the programmers offering the distributors discounts for taking a group of channels but the discount should be real economics and not a "punishment" fee if a distributor wants to offer single channels.

Yes I know it's just business but it's also anti-competative because as long as I cannot drop channels that "I" consider overpriced then what stops them from raises prices if they can force those same prices down "all" the distributors necks?

-JB


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

jrb531 said:


> Yes you have and I do agree 100% that we need "real" competition.
> 
> Now we have a limited form of competition with the distributors (D*, E*, Cable) but now how do we address what I consider the real problem here.... the programmers who tie the distributors hands with "must carry or else" contracts.
> 
> ...


IMHO the time is coming shortly when other options will make it more difficult for programmers to maintain these package deals. Effective HD streaming is being tested, albeit by the likes of NBC & Fox through HULU. But specialty "channels" are out there.

If in the near future E* would provide the software to tie to internet sites that stream video with the same attitude they allow free "off-the-air" HD or even for an access fee, they would be the super-premier DVR provider. It seems silly to have to have a PC connected to your home video setup like I have when a 722 is a computer connected to the internet.


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

James Long said:


> Their box, their rules. When you are the CEO of a satellite company (or in a position to influence policy) you can make different rules. For now, you can only choose a company that has rules that you can accept.
> 
> You can verify it yourself by going to D*'s website and following the process for ordering service (order now). When you select a DVR and continue the $5.99 is added.


Or he can get Comcast & get completley ripp off with 1 reciever and 1 seperate DVR.


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## jrb531 (May 29, 2004)

Paul Secic said:


> Or he can get Comcast & get completley ripp off with 1 reciever and 1 seperate DVR.


So we're back once again to the old...

"It's ok for company A to rip us off as long as company B is worse"

I'm not saying that other companies are not worse but does this really give Dish a free hand to do "anything" they want as long as it's slightly less worse than other companies?

-JB


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## finniganps (Jan 23, 2004)

Have price increases actually been announced yet? You'd think by now something official would have come out on this?


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## patmurphey (Dec 21, 2006)

JB,

You should be cheering the new prices. You could sign up for DVR Advantage and HD Essentials for 10$ more - Oh, wait you can't do that - You wouldn't have enough fees to whine about.


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## jrb531 (May 29, 2004)

patmurphey said:


> JB,
> 
> You should be cheering the new prices. You could sign up for DVR Advantage and HD Essentials for 10$ more - Oh, wait you can't do that - You wouldn't have enough fees to whine about.


I was going to say something but I'll not dignify that personal attack.

-JB


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

It looks like that there will be At AT100 version of the DVR Advantage this year ... which combined with essentials will save more money.


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## Ray_Clum (Apr 22, 2002)

Price changes are official... I just got my at&t bill and it has the increases from Dish, effective 2/1/08.

Effective with the February bill, subscribers of the following packages 
and services will see changes in their monthly rate and programming to 
the following rate: 

America's Top 100*: $37.99, 
America's Top 100 Plus*: $42.99, 
America's Top 200*: $49.99, 
America's Top 250*: $59.99, 
America's Everything Pak*: $99.98, 
DishLATINO*: $32.99, 
DishLATINO Plus*: $37.99, 
DishLATINO Dos*: $44.99, 
DishLATINO Max*: $54.99, 
DishLATINO Everything Pak*+: $92.99, 
DishLATINO Bonus Pack: $13.99, 
Russian Mega Pack: $32.99, 
Polish Super Pack: $39.99, 
Arabic Elite Super Pack: $44.99, 
Brazil Elite Pack: $44.99, 
International: Arabic Enhanced $27.99, 
Arabic Elite $34.99, 
French Bouquet $19.99. 
High Definition: HD Enabling Fee: $7.00


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## theoak (Nov 5, 2007)

James Long said:


> It looks like that there will be At AT100 version of the DVR Advantage this year ... which combined with essentials will save more money.


It already exists here.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

Yes we have had the top 100 dvr advantage for a few months now, for 39.99. The top 200 for 49.99 and the top 250 for 59.99. I only wish DISH would simplify their dvr advantage and put it just like I did. THe way it is set up you have to add this and that before you can upgrade to top 250 . Just simplify it and say if you want top 100 pay this and so on .


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Ah, they snuck in a new plan when I wasn't looking.


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## Slordak (Dec 17, 2003)

jrb531 said:


> So thanks but no thanks for the discounted boxes and boxes I might add you are just paying to rent. They never become yours after years of paying these fees. They are a cash cow for Dish and why I suspect they punish you by buying your own boxes.


Indeed; punishing users for buying boxes is indeed the way things have gone in recent years. I paid $999 (+ $65 sales tax = $1064) for a Dish Network 921 receiver, and then had to trade it in for an MPEG-4 capable 622 in order to receive high definition locals and earned a grand total of $100 credit when trading it back in... Of course, the 622 cost me $200 - $100 credit, so that's another $100. And it's a lease. So, basically, $1064 + $100 = $1164 and I don't even own my own receiver anymore.


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## HobbyTalk (Jul 14, 2007)

I guess you should have leased your 921. Even after 5 years of leasing you would be ahead by over $600.


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## Link (Feb 2, 2004)

finniganps said:


> Have price increases actually been announced yet? You'd think by now something official would have come out on this?


Do they still give official word? My dad's cable bill went up $2.00 starting with the January 2008 bill and there was no notice or anything...it is ridiculous they pay $55 a month now for about 75 channels of analog service.


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## neilo (Aug 7, 2006)

Link said:


> Do they still give official word? My dad's cable bill went up $2.00 starting with the January 2008 bill and there was no notice or anything...it is ridiculous they pay $55 a month now for about 75 channels of analog service.


Regarding cable bill increases, I either received a notice inside a bill or in a separate mailing about the those Comcast increases.

Neil


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

HobbyTalk said:


> I guess you should have leased your 921. Even after 5 years of leasing you would be ahead by over $600.


The 921 was never available for lease.


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

Link said:


> Do they still give official word? My dad's cable bill went up $2.00 starting with the January 2008 bill and there was no notice or anything...it is ridiculous they pay $55 a month now for about 75 channels of analog service.


That's cable for ya! Tell your dad to get Dish. Cable has moved govnt channels to digital tier & making people pay $4.99 a month. A judge in San Francisco issued a restraining order against Comcast to stop.


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

I just got my bill from Dish Network for the next billing cycle. On the bill, plainly stated it told me about my price increases that would take effect on my next billing cycle. So Dish is notifying subscribers about the increase.

See ya
Tony


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

As expected (apologies will be accepted from the naysayers) DirecTV's price increase is effective February 27th.
$3 on most packages, $5 on the top package (Premier).
See http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=116102 for discussion.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

James Long said:


> As expected (apologies will be accepted from the naysayers) DirecTV's price increase is effective February 27th.
> $3 on most packages, $5 on the top package (Premier).
> See http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=116102 for discussion.


What is even more amazing is I've been on DBSTalk for a few years now, and it is dejavu all over again! Every year we have the "why did Dish raise their rates, I'm going to DirecTV" chants... then DirecTV raises their rates too, and it becomes a moot point. At some point I would think the process would become normal enough to be expected.

Complaints about price increases I understand... just not the surprise when every company raises them... it's like everyone forgets that this happened last year, and the year before.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

D* always seems to get a pass on their rate increases because they announce them a month after E* announces theirs.

There are thresholds being crossed. D* is becoming the first satellite provider with an over $100 charge on a SD channel package (charging $104.99 for Premier). Of course with promotional discounts it is a bit hard to compare - new customers can get promotional discounts that will keep the price down for a year. But they are signing two year contracts so the price will catch up with them one year after activation.

E*'s biggest promotion is pushing the DishDVR Advantage packages ... which with the new price schedule will be cheaper than the AT level packages without a DVR. (I wonder if one could get DishDVR Advantage without getting a DVR?) It is still an issue of two year long commitments knowing that in 2009 there will be a bump.

TV's getting expensive!


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## dmurphy (Sep 28, 2006)

James Long said:


> As expected (apologies will be accepted from the naysayers) DirecTV's price increase is effective February 27th.
> $3 on most packages, $5 on the top package (Premier).
> See http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=116102 for discussion.


Do you have some ketchup I can put on my crow? 

I'll admit when I'm wrong!


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## CABill (Mar 20, 2005)

TNGTony said:


> I just got my bill from Dish Network for the next billing cycle. On the bill, plainly stated it told me about my price increases that would take effect on my next billing cycle. So Dish is notifying subscribers about the increase.


Some will be notified before the new rates are in effect and some won't. My next billing cycle will start 10Feb, they generate the bill about 23Jan, I can see it online 24Jan, and they will mail it 25Jan or 28Jan. Since it is generated before 1Feb, it will have "old" prices and probably notification of the increase that would take place on a bill for March. As it happens, mine will be an annual AT100 so nothing changes, but someone that has a billing cycle that covers 19th-18th each month probably won't get ADVANCE notice of the increase (w/o checking EKB/here/...).


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

My billing cycle is such (billed on the 21st) that I don't see increases until March each year. Tomorrow DISH will generate a bill for me with the 2007 prices for service from 02/06 to 03/05. Next month my bill for 03/06 to 04/05 will have the 2008 prices.


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## hchadj (Jan 18, 2007)

Will DVRAdvantage be offered at the same prices when the new prices take effect? I currently do not have DVRAdvantage but will likely request this soon (Dec was my last month of getting $10 back).

Will the price be 49.99 for AT200+locals+DVR? This would then be a 5.98 savings with the new price increase essentially paying for the DVR fee, correct?

Just trying to figure out if there is any advantage to asking to change my account to DVRAdvantage now versus in another month.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

CHAnge if you want now and the savings realized will be more next month after the price increase on the normal top programming packs. So if you take the top 200 dvr advantage pack this month you will save 3.98 a month and after the 2/01/08 price increase on the top 200 programming pack , you will see you will save $5.98 a month making that dvr fee gone.


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## khearrean (Mar 24, 2004)

Maybe I'm just overlooking the post, but I thought I read somewhere where VOOM might be changed to an ala-carte offering for those of us who don't watch it but still have to pay because it's included in the HD Pak.
Bottom line question, since my HD Pak rebate ended with my last bill, is there anyway to save a few bucks on my bill with the new offerings coming up, but still keep the Everything Pak & HD Pak?

Ken


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## HobbyTalk (Jul 14, 2007)

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=116716


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## hchadj (Jan 18, 2007)

Thanks Mike, I will wait until Monday when my new bill should be online to see what the price will be and if it will reflect the new $2 increase in AT200.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

No change on my bill due February 10th (for service through 03/05).
Just like last year. I didn't see the bump until a bill produced after the bump.


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## Jerrym303 (Jan 22, 2008)

I actually just have Total Chioce, not plus.

I do get National Geographic, but not Biography.

Sorry for the confusion.


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## rphillips187 (Oct 14, 2007)

I am closing on a new house on February 18th and when I tried to call and schedule an install for the following weekend they told me that they're currently not scheduling installs for greater than two weeks due to new pricing plans coming out. He really couldn't give me anything more specific than that but he wasn't expecting any huge changes.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Odd. The new plans start Friday.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Well, it's not surprising to me. The resources needed to update csr computer access to the new plans were allocated to that really cool (not!) interactive presidential candidate screening thing. Hey, what does it matter. Turn away a few more customers.:nono2:


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## HobbyTalk (Jul 14, 2007)

Shhhhhh. you'll get James all riled up again


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

HobbyTalk said:


> Shhhhhh. you'll get James all riled up again


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Hey, it's your guys claims that you are absolutely failing to back up. If you really believe that funding the ITV team is taking away resources from your pet projects _prove it_.


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## HobbyTalk (Jul 14, 2007)

See, I told you


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## russ9 (Jan 28, 2004)

I just got my bill. I've got a 622 with DVR Advantage with HD and two premiums. That all stayed the same but surprise, surprise, the Leased Receiver Fee went from $6.00 to $7.00


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## bkress (Apr 25, 2002)

Well Guys I am the Big Idiot, My new bill is $137.00 the Everything went up
and the leased fee went up,total six bucks, I keep asking myself is it worth it, there are only a few channels I watch really outside of the HD channels I could go with the family Package But I loose one of my Favorite channels to get them all 
I like I have to go with the top 250 then you add it up were back to the ultimate
so I am screwed, I am giving Dish a Warning, I have been a customer since 1997
today its $94.98, the day it goes over $99.99 for that same package changes will happen swiftly !!!


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

bkress said:


> Well Guys I am the Big Idiot, My new bill is $137.00 the Everything went up
> and the leased fee went up,total six bucks, I keep asking myself is it worth it, there are only a few channels I watch really outside of the HD channels I could go with the family Package But I loose one of my Favorite channels to get them all
> I like I have to go with the top 250 then you add it up were back to the ultimate
> so I am screwed, I am giving Dish a Warning, I have been a customer since 1997
> today its $94.98, the day it goes over $99.99 for that same package changes will happen swiftly !!!


I assume you are in the Comcast service area in Rancho Cordova. You could save a bundle for a few months by switching to Comcast. But after the new customer discount runs out, the normal Comcast Digital Premier is $117.60 and then you add on for HD, multiple rooms, DVR.

The fine print terms and conditions:

Call Comcast for complete details about services and prices. Certain services are available separately or as part of other levels of service, and not all services are available in all areas. You must subscribe to Basic Service to receive other services or levels of service of video programming. You must purchase or rent a converter and remote control for a separate charge to access and other charges may apply. Franchise fees, taxes and other fees may apply, with the actual amount depending on location and services ordered. Pricing, programming, channel location and packaging may change. Digital cable requires a digital converter for your TV. Pricing includes one (1) digital converter box unless otherwise indicated. Additional converter boxes are available for an additional fee. You must subscribe to Comcast Digital Cable and a premium channel to receive the multiplexed version of the same channel. An analog cable converter may be used to unscramble premium channels in areas where Analog premium channels are available. Analog converter boxes are available for an additional fee. Not all channels available in all areas. Sports packages not available in all areas.


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