# Wanted: Those w/ experience in "moving"



## BearsFan (Apr 22, 2002)

Ok, here's the deal:

I'm helping out my sister. She lives in a town in California that does *NOT* receive local channels. She wants D*, which does not offer locals (E* does, but just ABC, Fox, and CBS...and she wants all of them)...and she's a 1st-timer to the world of DBS, so now is the time for a free install/equip. deal.

So here's my plan:

I'll help her get signed up for D* from a local retailer & installer, with the Total Choice package. No locals, no extras, no nothing.

Now comes the tricky part...

I'm thinking I wait about 2 weeks or so AFTER the D* system is installed. Then, I'll have her call D* and change the service address, but keep the billing address the same. I'll give her a made-up address so she can receive...erm...let's just say "San Francisco" or "San Jose" local channels (she lives under 100 miles from one of those 2 cities).

Here are the questions I have:

What's the *best* way to do this? Am I on the right track?

I'm concerned that when she calls to have the service address switched, will the CSR ask for the new phone number too, or can she just keep the *billing address phone number*? If not, would I have to come up with a "fake" phone number too?

Or is it better to just change EVERYTHING (billing & service address), and then go online about an hour after the phone call to the CSR and change _back_ the billing address online?

Cable is ridiculous in her area for just the locals, and she's had cable forever, and hates it. Now she just wants her favorite channels, of which are included in D*'s Total Choice package, and she wants locals. The D* sales rep kept cutting me off rudely/not letting me finish on the phone when I would ask questions about receiving locals/waivers (NBC will *NOT* give them out in her area, no matter what), and I personally don't care for E* and she agrees, so D* it is...I won't be swayed to choose E*.

I'm just looking for some tips/pointers on what I mentioned above, on what's worked best for you.

Thanks for any help!

--BearsFan


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## raj2001 (Nov 2, 2002)

I would not recommend using a made up address as this is * fraud,* and you do not want the postal inspectors knocking on your door. The best bet is to get permission from someone you know to use their address. Of course this is still not 100% legal, but it's better than using a made up address that could end up being someone's real address. Someone got screwed up with this before and Dish network, and needless to say, the owners of the address weren't pleased.

You can supply the separate addresses at time of activation, or change it later. You don't really need to explain why.


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## BearsFan (Apr 22, 2002)

> _Originally posted by raj2001 _
> *I would not recommend using a made up address as this is  fraud, and you do not want the postal inspectors knocking on your door. The best bet is to get permission from someone you know to use their address. Of course this is still not 100% legal, but it's better than using a made up address that could end up being someone's real address. Someone got screwed up with this before and Dish network, and needless to say, the owners of the address weren't pleased.
> 
> You can supply the separate addresses at time of activation, or change it later. You don't really need to explain why. *


As far as "fraud" goes, as long as D* is getting paid and channels aren't being hacked/acquired illegally, I don't have a problem with that...and I'm not here to argue the semantics, either...

Understood. But how does this work when the installer comes into the home, installs the equipment, and calls D* to activate? Does my sister give him the 2 separate addresses, and is there a subsequent "strange look" or refusal to continue at that point? Isn't D* going to notice that the service address phone number is different than the billing address phone number?

_That's_ what I'm after. I live on the other side of the country, and can't do this for her. I'm concerned about what to do with the installer, with the phone numbers, stuff like that.

As far as the address goes, one could just type an address into a "address finder" website, and if it comes back as N/A or "does not exist," then that "address" would be in the clear, would it not?

--BearsFan


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## FTA Michael (Jul 21, 2002)

First, if I were doing such a thing, I'd let the installer do his business and leave. Then a couple of weeks later, I'd call in and let the D* CSRs know about my new vacation home. They'll see that it's a recent install, but if you tell them you changed your mind and would rather watch TV there and once you saw how easy it was to install and so forth, what are they gonna do? The vacation home has no phone (yet?), BTW, which is why you're calling from the billing address. And of course, you'll need to unplug the phone from the unit.

I've never tried it, but what I hear is if you give the providers a truly non-existent address, their software will bark, and it won't work. The recommended solution would be to find the address of an apartment complex or mobile home park, then use that address along with an out-of-range unit number. That way the address is real, but there's still nobody at the address.

Although you're paying for it, you're still lying to get something you otherwise couldn't get. How wrong is that? You decide.

Digression: I used to live in an apartment above a repair shop, and the address was 14 1/2 Whatever Street, Apt. B. That used to drive the voter records and drivers license folks crazy! Eventually they settled on 14-B Whatever Street, and fortunately, the mail carriers figured it out.


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## buzzdalf (Jan 27, 2003)

An individual might be able to find legitimate street addresses that can receive the programming you're and then figure out the sequence of the addresses. Where I come from the street addresses are rarely indexed 1 number at a time, but the street is full, so no more houses can fit. Choosing one of these missing house numbers in the sequence might serve your purpose.
This is all strictly hypothetical of course.


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## jrbdmb (Sep 5, 2002)

D* requires a phone line to be hooked up to each receiver at all times. (E* also has this requirement, but does not enforce it, while D* apparently does.)

Can/does D* use the phone number the receiver is hooked up to to verify the service address? 

Other note: if your service address changes, you may find yourself in a Pegasus area. This will cause your bill to go up in price, and may cause other billing problems.


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## BearsFan (Apr 22, 2002)

> _Originally posted by jrbdmb _
> *D* requires a phone line to be hooked up to each receiver at all times. (E* also has this requirement, but does not enforce it, while D* apparently does.)*


I think this is all relative. A "rough poll" of reading posts over the last few years at various forums shows that really about only 2-3 out of 10 D* customers ever encounter problems when their MAIN receiver is NOT plugged in to a phone jack.

That said, I'm willing to take a chance of not plugging in her receiver. At my own home, I had phone line problems during _NFL Sunday Ticket_ season, and didn't have a line plugged in for a few weeks. Nothing changed, I still received all the games, and D* "insists" you have your receiver plugged in so it can dial out. Granted, yeah, it was only 2-3 weeks...

*



Can/does D* use the phone number the receiver is hooked up to to verify the service address? 
Other note: if your service address changes, you may find yourself in a Pegasus area. This will cause your bill to go up in price, and may cause other billing problems.

Click to expand...

*Worrying about NRTC/Pegasus is not a problem. I've already checked a few addresses, and the "big city" I'd move my sister to gets local channels, and the zip codes all verify that.

Thanks to all...these are some valid concerns, I'm glad I asked. I'm still considering the "move" for her, as receiving locals in her town are _impossible_...and I've already inquired about waivers, and not every network will grant them...so right now, other than Comcast cable, this "move" is our only option.

--BearsFan


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## DS0816 (Mar 29, 2002)

Here's a suggestion: Get DirecTV _and_ the cable company's locals. Or DirecTV _and_ a separate antenna for locals. Yeah, it's not digital broadcast picture, but how much is your proposal -- which includes fraudulent information -- worthy of possible, future repercussions?


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## dishrich (Apr 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by DS0816 _
> *Here's a suggestion: Get DirecTV and the cable company's locals. Or DirecTV and a separate antenna for locals. Yeah, it's not digital broadcast picture, but how much is your proposal -- which includes fraudulent information -- worthy of possible, future repercussions?  *


Yea, the jails are just OVERFLOWING with those "moving" criminals...    

Guess since I have local cable AND 4 sets of OOM nets, I'll be looking at life w/NO parole...
  

BearsFan - don't worry about hooking up the phone line - it makes absolutely NO difference about the acutal phone# in relation to where your service address is. D* does NOT verify if the actual phone# coming in when the receiver calls back, is supposed to be in an area. And I know many people that do this very thing. As a matter of fact, my landline# is NOT even on my D* account & I have had NO problems whatsoever.


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## bills976 (Jun 30, 2002)

Directv allows you to activate online removing the human element....


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

E* only has my W/L #, which happens to be my only phone #. I moved from ATL to another DMA last year and plumb forgot to give E* my COA. 

Whoops! :eek2:

I still get ATL locals :rolling:


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## raj2001 (Nov 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by BearsFan _
> *As far as "fraud" goes, as long as D* is getting paid and channels aren't being hacked/acquired illegally, I don't have a problem with that...and I'm not here to argue the semantics, either...*


Let me make it a little more clear to you. I was not talking about DirecTV fraud. I was talking about postal fraud. You cannot use someone else's address without their permission, even if it's a made up one you just picked up out of thin air. That's *fraud and identity theft,* which is illegal.

You can, however, use someone's address with their permission. This is not postal fraud. So find a friend in the area you want and ask them to use their address.


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## raj2001 (Nov 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by BearsFan _
> *
> Understood. But how does this work when the installer comes into the home, installs the equipment, and calls D* to activate? Does my sister give him the 2 separate addresses, and is there a subsequent "strange look" or refusal to continue at that point? Isn't D* going to notice that the service address phone number is different than the billing address phone number?
> *


When my DTV was installed, the installer dialed the number, gave them the access card and receiver SN's, and then handed me the phone.


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## Cheyenne (Apr 23, 2002)

And you all wonder why the rates go up?
May I suggest putting this effort into something more productive,
like making honest money instead of trying to rip someone off.


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## TerryC (Jul 18, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Cheyenne _
> *And you all wonder why the rates go up?
> *


How does this make rates go up? DirecTV will get paid for the services provided.

Chill.


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## Cheyenne (Apr 23, 2002)

TerryC, CAS is not cheap to develop and distribute.


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## TerryC (Jul 18, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Cheyenne _
> *TerryC, CAS is not cheap to develop and distribute. *


Sorry... CAS?


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## raj2001 (Nov 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by TerryC _
> *
> 
> Sorry... CAS? *


Conditional Access System - i.e. smartcards (access cards)


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## dishrich (Apr 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Cheyenne _
> *TerryC, CAS is not cheap to develop and distribute. *


Maybe you care to 'splain to the rest of us what this has ANYTHING whatsoever to do with "moving" & gettting OOM nets. We AIN'T STEALING ANYTHING - WE ARE PAYING FOR A LEGIT SERVICE - HELLO!!!


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## TerryC (Jul 18, 2002)

> _Originally posted by dishrich _
> *
> 
> Maybe you care to 'splain to the rest of us what this has ANYTHING whatsoever to do with "moving" & gettting OOM nets. We AIN'T STEALING ANYTHING - WE ARE PAYING FOR A LEGIT SERVICE - HELLO!!!      *


That's what I'm saying. There's a big difference between moving and hacking.


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## raj2001 (Nov 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by TerryC _
> *
> 
> That's what I'm saying. There's a big difference between moving and hacking. *


Yep. But there's nothing morally wrong with "moving." Just make sure you don't do another non-DBS related crime in the process, which is postal fraud and/or identity theft.


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## dishrich (Apr 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by raj2001 _
> *
> 
> Yep. But there's nothing morally wrong with "moving." Just make sure you don't do another non-DBS related crime in the process, which is postal fraud and/or identity theft. *


Ok, let's see -

Both my "moved" accounts DO have MY name on them & NOBODY else's, so I don't understand how in the world I'd be stealing somebody's identity.  

And, the "physical" address's I use ARE real address's, while my "billing" address's are MY REAL house.

OK, so where's MY crime???  :shrug:


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## BearsFan (Apr 22, 2002)

> _Originally posted by dishrich _
> *
> 
> Ok, let's see -
> ...


This is what I'm saying. If one actually *pays* for the services, and the addresses are legit (friends/family give authorization), what's the problem? You're not "hacking" to get signals..._you're paying for them_, and come on now...what company is going to say "No, you *can NOT* pay me an extra fee per month so my company can make money"? 

Never heard of such a company.

Thanks for the advice here, I think it's going to work for my sister. 

--BearsFan


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## rmassey (Apr 23, 2002)

Morality aside, it boils down to if you agree with SHIVA & congress, which equats to a "moved" sub is cheating the real local advertisers by not viewing their ads. Personally, I use a DTivo and skip all the ads and therefore will never see the ads, so I am completely justified in "moving" and watching locals that SHIVA would otherwise not have me view. Plus, I realy don't care what a local cable provider lobbyed congress to pass as law to limit my rights as a consumer. And yes, I am paying DTV for the locals, so I am not hacking or stealing service.

This law is the modern day equivlent to the Matress Tag police.


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## Cheyenne (Apr 23, 2002)

rmassey, there is no such SHIVA and congress regulation supporting such allegations and actions there-of.

There seems to be a "concept" in America that TV is a "right" vs a privilege to any given citizen that wishes to purchase this product.

Again, if you feel that the product offered does not meet your requirements,then you have options.


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## rmassey (Apr 23, 2002)

> _
> Again, if you feel that the product offered does not meet your requirements,then you have options. [/B]_


_

Correct, I choose to ignore the law and pay for service I receive._


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## dishrich (Apr 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by rmassey _
> *
> Correct, I choose to ignore the law and pay for service I receive. *


:lol: :lol: :lol: Right on & I do the same thing 4X, so I'm REALLY helping give E* money, which they would NOT be getting AT ALL if it wasn't for the 3 x-tra cities I pay for, since D* is my primary DBS service...


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