# New HR21 - $99 + $5/mo. lease???



## barkster99 (Jun 5, 2008)

I've been a Directv subscriber for +12 years, never had any freebies or special deals. Currently using Samsung Tivo. Per recent annoucement, my locals will be available in HD soon and I'm finally ready to pull the trigger on HR21.

If I order via Directv website, they want $99 for HR21 (special deal as a "valued customer") - plus $5/mo. lease fee. WTF is that??? If I'm leasing it, what's the $99 for???

What can I reasonably expect if I call them?

Thanks for any advice.


----------



## FriscoJoe (Mar 22, 2007)

barkster99 said:


> I've been a Directv subscriber for +12 years, never had any freebies or special deals. Currently using Samsung Tivo. Per recent annoucement, my locals will be available in HD soon and I'm finally ready to pull the trigger on HR21.
> 
> If I order via Directv website, they want $99 for HR21 (special deal as a "valued customer") - plus $5/mo. lease fee. WTF is that??? If I'm leasing it, what's the $99 for???
> 
> ...


A friend of mine just went thru this and was able to get $10/month credit for 12 months to offset the $99 charge.


----------



## Spanky_Partain (Dec 7, 2006)

...and instead of waiting for them to make and offer, suggest one yourself and see if they will do it. 

They may agree.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

barkster99,

DIRECTV has used this model for some time now. In fact when the HD DVR first came out 2 years ago the standard up-front fee was $299 instead of the $99 you've been offered on DIRECTV's web page.

Think of it this way .. You pay $99 up front + $5/month lease with DIRECTV and many cable companies charge $0 up front + $10+/month lease fee. Depending on how the actual charges and your usage breaks down, DIRECTV's method could be cheaper for you in the long run. Either way, it is the lease model that DIRECTV has chosen. If you call, you may be able to get a better deal than that .


----------



## bobnielsen (Jun 29, 2006)

The $5/mo "lease" fee replaces the $5/mo "additional receiver" fee, so that part is a wash. The upfront fee could be considered as a prepaid lease.


----------



## DrummerBoy523 (Jan 9, 2007)

Call D*. Say "cancel" at the prompt. When the IVR asks you, tell it you want to cancel service. THen, when the CSR comes on - tell her that you would like to upgrade to HD, but you have been getting competing offers from DISH and Cable and would like to know what offers D* has to keep current customers.

If you get a good CSR, they will give you the HD DVR for free, plus they will sometimes offer you FREE HD (10/month credit) and free HBO/SHOW/MAX for 3 months.

That is what I did back in December and it worked.

Good luck.

~J


----------



## bhelton71 (Mar 8, 2007)

DrummerBoy523 said:


> Call D*. Say "cancel" at the prompt. When the IVR asks you, tell it you want to cancel service. THen, when the CSR comes on - tell her that you would like to upgrade to HD, but you have been getting competing offers from DISH and Cable and would like to know what offers D* has to keep current customers.
> 
> If you get a good CSR, they will give you the HD DVR for free, plus they will sometimes offer you FREE HD (10/month credit) and free HBO/SHOW/MAX for 3 months.
> 
> ...


That sounds like dangerous advice nowadays - other threads have indicated the CSR may very well take you up on the Cancel offer.


----------



## cody21 (Sep 26, 2007)

You'll also be charged $9.99 / month for the HD Access Package in addtion to the LEASE charge per receiver.


----------



## barkster99 (Jun 5, 2008)

bobnielsen said:


> The $5/mo "lease" fee replaces the $5/mo "additional receiver" fee, so that part is a wash. The upfront fee could be considered as a prepaid lease.


You lost me there. I only have one receiver and currently pay no lease or additional receiver fee.

So, paying the monthly lease fee is just normal these days, even though they charge $100-$300 up front??? Something smells.


----------



## Michael D'Angelo (Oct 21, 2006)

The lease fee is to mirror the programming to every additional receiver after the first one. The first one is a part of the programming package. On owned unit it is just called additional receiver instead of lease fee.

If that is the only unit you have than you will not have to pay $4.99 a month for it.


----------



## bwaldron (Oct 24, 2005)

bhelton71 said:


> That sounds like dangerous advice nowadays - other threads have indicated the CSR may very well take you up on the Cancel offer.


And I have to admit that part of me sorta enjoys that. I guess I'm awful. 

My take is that "cancel" talk should only be used when you are willing to follow through on it.


----------



## cody21 (Sep 26, 2007)

barkster99 said:


> You lost me there. I only have one receiver and currently pay no lease or additional receiver fee.
> 
> So, paying the monthly lease fee is just normal these days, even though they charge $100-$300 up front??? Something smells.


As someone else mentioned, you SHOULD be able to get a credit for some programming to make up for the cost of the receiver. If they charge you $99, ask nicely to see if they'll give you 10 month of the $9.99 HD ACCESS PACKAGE for free to make up for the initial outlay of money ... they've been very good at accomodatiing people to get us to sign up for the 2 year lease agreement. YMMV


----------



## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

barkster99 said:


> You lost me there. I only have one receiver and currently pay no lease or additional receiver fee.
> 
> So, paying the monthly lease fee is just normal these days, even though they charge $100-$300 up front??? Something smells.


Every receiver after your first one is $4.99 a month to mirror the programming to it. It's been around since DirecTV started, 14 or so years ago. This is nothing new. Your first receiver has this fee included in your programming package so the first receiver is "free", every additional is 4.99/mo

And you pay that even if you owned the receiver.

What you'll see on your bill:
"Additional receiver fee" = owned receiver
"Lease fee" = leased receiver

Same 4.99 a month no matter if owned or leased. So you're not being screwed here on monthly fees just because the receiver is leased.

If you feel $99 up front is too much then make a deal or go to cable. But you'll end up paying more with cable.
DirecTV - $99 up front, 4.99 a month
Cable - no up front, $14.99 a month

So after 10 months with cable you just paid the same amount you paid up front to DirecTV and with cable *you keep on paying* forever. DirecTV you're done. Up to you which you like better I guess.


----------



## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

barkster99 said:


> So, paying the monthly lease fee is just normal these days, even though they charge $100-$300 up front??? *Something smells.*


How close are you to Lake Michigan?


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Doug Brott said:


> DIRECTV has used this model for some time now. In fact when the HD DVR first came out 2 years ago the standard up-front fee was $299 instead of the $99 you've been offered on DIRECTV's web page.


Remembering that two years ago, what you were getting for $299 [many got the $199 price] had two OTA tuners [that were disabled], a gawky looking behemoth dish and the chance to get in on the ground floor of one of the largest scale non-Micro$oft product debugging programs to date.

Now DIRECTV has reduced their cost of the HR21 by $250 and they've reduced the lease entry price by $200.

DIRECTV is not supremely confident that they will get more than their 24 months out of the customer, so they feel the need to make sure they recover their cost one way or the other.

As wonderful as DIRECTV may be, they have a pretty huge SAC and somebody's got to pay for it before they switch providers.


----------



## mhayes70 (Mar 21, 2006)

harsh said:


> Remembering that two years ago, what you were getting for $299 [many got the $199 price] had two OTA tuners [that were disabled], a gawky looking behemoth dish and the chance to get in on the ground floor of one of the largest scale non-Micro$oft product debugging programs to date.
> 
> Now DIRECTV has reduced their cost of the HR21 by $250 and they've reduced the lease entry price by $200.
> 
> ...


Hmmmm....... Then I wonder why Dish is losing so many subscribers??


----------



## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

barkster99 said:


> You lost me there. I only have one receiver and currently pay no lease or additional receiver fee.
> 
> So, paying the monthly lease fee is just normal these days, even though they charge $100-$300 up front??? Something smells.


Lease acquistion costs - aka a down payment on the device, readthe newspaper on automobile leases you will pay 2,000 + up front the a monthly reoccurring.

If you want there is a unit you can purchase outright - beleive the cost for it is around $499.00 and you still pay a monthly charge on it and have a commitment, just you are stuck with unusable gear if you decide to move on


----------



## somekevinguy (Jan 7, 2008)

As mentioned above you will not have to pay the $5 lease fee if it is your only box. The $5 lease fee shows up on your bill and then they issue you a credit for it so it is a wash. The lease is better than owning because a box like this would cost way more than $99 to buy outright. I remember buying standard D* boxes for more than that a while back and unless you end up quiting your D* service in the near future the box will be obsolete by the time you want to upgrade again anyway so it wouldn't have much value if you were to sell it. I have an old Tivo I paid over $500 for and it is collecting dust right now because nobody would want it. The only thing that would be better is if they would give us the boxes for free. The $99 deal you are being offered is awesome IMO. I don't know if they changed things since I ordered mine but that also includes and new HD capable dish and free basic installation.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

harsh said:


> Remembering that two years ago, what you were getting for $299 [many got the $199 price] had two OTA tuners [that were disabled], a gawky looking behemoth dish and the chance to get in on the ground floor of one of the largest scale non-Micro$oft product debugging programs to date.
> 
> Now DIRECTV has reduced their cost of the HR21 by $250 and they've reduced the lease entry price by $200.
> 
> ...


Sounds like some serious double-talk here .. I can't tell if you're complaining about the cost 2 years ago or the fact that it's much less now?

Yes, two years ago, the cost was $299 .. many got it for $199 .. There were OTA tuners included in the HR20 which was the only receiver available at the time .. OTA is not available inside the HR21, but an add-on module makes it equivalent to the HR20.

What does Subscriber Acquisition Costs have to do with whether or not this particular customer is surprised by the up front fee as part of the lease?

So, again what is it that you are complaining about .. The fact that it was $299 2 years ago or the fact that it's now $99 ($200 less than 2 years ago)?


----------



## MikeW (May 16, 2002)

You could be sad about giving up $99 to lease the box, but I can tell you there are worse ways to make money disappear. Take a look at the shelf in my garage. Here sits over $1000 that I spent in equipment almost 3 years ago. Today, I "might" be able to get $100 for the HD Tivo and $20-$40 for the SD Tivos. So..I can sell my $1000 worth of receivers for, at best $320. That's a loss of $680 on 5 receivers and that's before E-Bay fees and if somebody is willing to buy them.

The HR21 experience is definitely worth the $99 bucks.


----------



## EricJRW (Jul 6, 2008)

My deal:

D* called me once a month for the past 6 months. Deal keeps getting better and better.

Last offer was non-DVR for free, so I asked about DVR. First it was $199, then $99, then I pay for shipping ($20) and as it turns out tax ($20). So mine was $40. The only additional charge is the DVR fee, it looks like the lease fee gets added, and credited each month, though I have yet to see a new bill since the install.

Since I had OTA, and lost it with the HR21, I managed the AM21 for $27 (half off).

*MikeW:* But if you sell them, even for a loss, at least you can earn interest on the money... I doubt those boxes will increase in value, and they only thing you'll collect with them is dust... Unless you have future plans.


----------



## vurbano (May 15, 2004)

barkster99 said:


> If I order via Directv website, they want $99 for HR21 (special deal as a "valued customer") - plus $5/mo. lease fee. WTF is that??? If I'm leasing it, what's the $99 for???


The privaledge of having the box sitting in your home. Eventually these ridiculous upfront costs will have to be done away with. I have never paid an upfront lease fee for anything and never will.


----------



## evan_s (Mar 4, 2008)

If you prefer to own your own equipment feel free to buy a hr21pro for 600$ instead.

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=HR21PRO.

Odds are when your done with it it's not going to be worth any where near the 500$ more it costs to buy over leasing a hr21.


----------



## grizzly (Aug 27, 2005)

evan_s said:


> If you prefer to own your own equipment feel free to buy a hr21pro for 600$ instead.
> 
> http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=HR21PRO.
> 
> Odds are when your done with it it's not going to be worth any where near the 500$ more it costs to buy over leasing a hr21.


Or you can buy a owned HR20 unit off of craigslist for $80 which gives you built in OTA


----------



## barkster99 (Jun 5, 2008)

Thanks for everyone's input. I asked nice for them to throw me some kind of bone but they didn't bite. As pointed out above, the $5 lease fee I'll never see since this is my only receiver, and that's what was bugging me the most. Ended up at $99 with free shipping and install. Better than the $299 and $199 I'd been quoted previously. Install is next Wednesday. Looking forward to the move to HD.

Now hope they come through with local HDs as stated in recent press release. The CSR was clueless. Otherwise I'll need the AM21.

As a longtime Tivo user, I can join the ranks of those that go through the anguish of no more Tivo. Damn! Let the games begin!


----------



## evan_s (Mar 4, 2008)

grizzly said:


> Or you can buy a owned HR20 unit off of craigslist for $80 which gives you built in OTA


Thats possible but from my understanding something you have to be careful about. Most HR20's are leased not owned and you are likely to end up with a leased unit that was suppose to be returned and you will be unable to activate it.


----------



## jimb726 (Jan 9, 2007)

grizzly said:


> Or you can buy a owned HR20 unit off of craigslist for $80 which gives you built in OTA


Just be very careful that you get the RID checked before you buy it. And I seem to recall a thread several months ago where a person bought a HR20 off of eBay, checked the RID, was told it was clean and then went to hook it up and found out it was leased. Then the seller was no where to be found. The only way to be 100% safe is from a trusted reseller or DirecTv itself.


----------



## rudeney (May 28, 2007)

bwaldron said:


> bhelton71 said:
> 
> 
> > That sounds like dangerous advice nowadays - other threads have indicated the CSR may very well take you up on the Cancel offer.
> ...


You are not going to get immediately canceled by saying "cancel service" at the initial voice response prompt! All that will happen is that you get connected to a specialized CSR in the Customer Retention department.

Of course if you then say you are calling to cancel, or something like, "I'm canceling unless you do X for me," then yes, you might get canceled at that point. However, if you nicely explain that you've been a long-time subscriber, paid your bill on time, and are gathering competing offers for an upgrade to HD, you might just get what a really good deal.


----------



## rudeney (May 28, 2007)

jimb726 said:


> Just be very careful that you get the RID checked before you buy it. And I seem to recall a thread several months ago where a person bought a HR20 off of eBay, checked the RID, was told it was clean and then went to hook it up and found out it was leased. Then the seller was no where to be found. The only way to be 100% safe is from a trusted reseller or DirecTv itself.


Not only that, D* prohibits the sale of their new self-branded receivers except by authorized dealers. Even if you truly do own the unit, as an individual, you are breaking the license agreement on the software (really, firmware) contained within the device if you sell or transfer it. Of course it's really just a "Strategy" to keep up-front lease prices artificially high, but this is D*'s stuff and they can do as they please. Let's just hope that other companies whose hardware contains licensed software doesn't jump on this bandwagon. You could end up not being able to sell your car or even your old dishwasher!


----------



## bwaldron (Oct 24, 2005)

rudeney said:


> You are not going to get immediately canceled by saying "cancel service" at the initial voice response prompt! All that will happen is that you get connected to a specialized CSR in the Customer Retention department.


Yes, I understand the how and why people do it.


----------



## scrybigtv (Jan 25, 2008)

wingrider01 said:


> Lease acquistion costs - aka a down payment on the device, readthe newspaper on automobile leases you will pay 2,000 + up front the a monthly reoccurring.
> 
> If you want there is a unit you can purchase outright - beleive the cost for it is around $499.00 and you still pay a monthly charge on it and have a commitment, just you are stuck with unusable gear if you decide to move on


Don't know what kind of autos you've been leasing, wingrider, but I've been leasing for about 16 years and I've never paid a cent up front. I do make monthly lease payments, of course.


----------



## NR4P (Jan 16, 2007)

I agree with the consenus and glad you took the offer.

Before you activate it, be sure to ask the question "Does this include any commitment of any kind?"

It probably does include a 2 year contract. If you are OK with that, great. If not, don't activate it.


----------



## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

grizzly said:


> Or you can buy a owned HR20 unit off of craigslist for $80 which gives you built in OTA


careful... it most likely isn't owned and will be a crap shoot as to whether it'll actually work.


----------



## ahatten (May 16, 2007)

barkster99 said:


> I've been a Directv subscriber for +12 years, never had any freebies or special deals. Currently using Samsung Tivo. Per recent annoucement, my locals will be available in HD soon and I'm finally ready to pull the trigger on HR21.
> 
> If I order via Directv website, they want $99 for HR21 (special deal as a "valued customer") - plus $5/mo. lease fee. WTF is that??? If I'm leasing it, what's the $99 for???
> 
> ...


I saw this offer online. Anybody have any idea how long this offer is good for? The website doesn't state.


----------



## tivoman (Jul 15, 2008)

barkster99 said:


> Thanks for everyone's input. I asked nice for them to throw me some kind of bone but they didn't bite. As pointed out above, the $5 lease fee I'll never see since this is my only receiver, and that's what was bugging me the most. Ended up at $99 with free shipping and install. Better than the $299 and $199 I'd been quoted previously. Install is next Wednesday. Looking forward to the move to HD.
> 
> Now hope they come through with local HDs as stated in recent press release. The CSR was clueless. Otherwise I'll need the AM21.
> 
> As a longtime Tivo user, I can join the ranks of those that go through the anguish of no more Tivo. Damn! Let the games begin!


FYI - Make sure they added the slimline 5LNB dish to the work order? (If you just have a standard 2LNB dish.) I just had my install today [HD upgrade] and they didn't have a dish with them.


----------



## EricJRW (Jul 6, 2008)

tivoman said:


> FYI - Make sure they added the slimline 5LNB dish to the work order? (If you just have a standard 2LNB dish.) I just had my install today [HD upgrade] and they didn't have a dish with them.


Good point... The 5-LNB was missing from my order too. Luckily the tech was able to call D* and add it on the fly.


----------



## rudeney (May 28, 2007)

scrybigtv said:


> Don't know what kind of autos you've been leasing, wingrider, but I've been leasing for about 16 years and I've never paid a cent up front. I do make monthly lease payments, of course.


+1 on that. While up-front cash can lower your payment and save you a little interest, you can also end up losing it if the car is stolen or totaled. Whatever cash you put down up front will depreciate just as quickly as the car itself.

As for the up-front lease payment on D* receivers, the good news is that the longer you keep the receiver, the more value you get form that initial investment. Of course you do still have the same risk in losing it if for some reason you have to terminate the lease early. Having that *and* ETF's is sort of a double-whammy for someone that wants to leave D* before the end of the commitment period.


----------



## rustynails (Apr 24, 2008)

wingrider01 said:


> Lease acquistion costs - aka a down payment on the device, readthe newspaper on automobile leases you will pay 2,000 + up front the a monthly reoccurring.
> 
> If you want there is a unit you can purchase outright - beleive the cost for it is around $499.00 and you still pay a monthly charge on it and have a commitment, just you are stuck with unusable gear if you decide to move on


Now most dealerships are rethinking leasing because they can't sell the big cars or trucks once the lease is up. Of couse with D they just give the returned leased receiver to another new sub.
I really don't like the 2 year commitments but I don't want to pay full price for a dvr or cell phone, etc.


----------



## rudeney (May 28, 2007)

rustynails said:


> Now most dealerships are rethinking leasing because they can't sell the big cars or trucks once the lease is up.


Actually, the dealership doesn't lease vehicles; they always sell them. It's the finance companies and finance arms of manufacturers that do the leasing and in turn they pay the dealer for the car, just as if it were a loan. The only time leasing adversely affects dealers are in a few rare cases where the manufacturer has required them to buy end-of-lease vehicles at the artificially inflated residuals. Chrysler Financial has said they will stop offering leases, but of course it makes sense because their vehicles drop value very quickly.



> Of couse with D they just give the returned leased receiver to another new sub. I really don't like the 2 year commitments but I don't want to pay full price for a dvr or cell phone, etc.


Yeah, then D* will re-lease that used equipment for *another* up-front fee. At least with cars, they depreciate so used cars are less expensive. In the case of cell phones, you do have a choice; you can buy "last year's technology" in a used phone and (usually) activate it without a commitment. In some cases, this can be even be less expensive than the "deals" offered on new equipment with a contract. Unfortunately, you really can't do this with D* because they control their proprietary equipment, even on the used market.


----------



## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

rudeney said:


> Actually, the dealership doesn't lease vehicles; they always sell them. It's the finance companies and finance arms of manufacturers that do the leasing and in turn they pay the dealer for the car, just as if it were a loan. The only time leasing adversely affects dealers are in a few rare cases where the manufacturer has required them to buy end-of-lease vehicles at the artificially inflated residuals. Chrysler Financial has said they will stop offering leases, but of course it makes sense because their vehicles drop value very quickly.
> 
> Yeah, then D* will re-lease that used equipment for *another* up-front fee. At least with cars, they depreciate so used cars are less expensive. In the case of cell phones, you do have a choice; you can buy "last year's technology" in a used phone and (usually) activate it without a commitment. In some cases, this can be even be less expensive than the "deals" offered on new equipment with a contract. Unfortunately, you really can't do this with D* because they control their proprietary equipment, even on the used market.


Curious, both my cars are leased through the manufacturer leasing section write the check directly to the manufacturer, no 3rd party leasing company involved. If they stop offering leases i will switch to a manufacturer that is still offering them, refuse to deal with 3rd party companies.

Leases go through cycles, have been leasing autos for the last 36 years, there was a period of time when the manufacturers where pushing sales of the autos and downplaying leases, then the trend switched to what is it now, now it is going back to the push of the sales


----------



## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

Folks, you're arguing a false analogy. Leasing cars and satellite receivers are two different animals. Maybe if you also had to buy your gas from GM or Ford, I might agree with the analogy, but as it is now, I think the more you try to make the argument, comparing the two, the more you blur the truth.


----------



## IcedOmega13 (Mar 3, 2008)

wingrider01 said:


> Lease acquistion costs - aka a down payment on the device, readthe newspaper on automobile leases you will pay 2,000 + up front the a monthly reoccurring.
> 
> If you want there is a unit you can purchase outright - beleive the cost for it is around $499.00 and you still pay a monthly charge on it and have a commitment, just you are stuck with unusable gear if you decide to move on


no commitment with owned equipment purchases


----------



## TigersFanJJ (Feb 17, 2006)

NR4P said:


> I agree with the consenus and glad you took the offer.
> 
> Before you activate it, be sure to ask the question "Does this include any commitment of any kind?"
> 
> It probably does include a 2 year contract. If you are OK with that, great. If not, don't activate it.


Why wait to ask at the last second? The answer is YES, it will come with a new commitment. They always do on an upgrade or install unless you buy it outright.


----------



## rudeney (May 28, 2007)

IcedOmega13 said:


> no commitment with owned equipment purchases


Can you post official D* policy that states that? Twice I have added owned equipment and been required to agree to a new commitment. Once I was able to negotiate my way out of it by arguing it was self-installed used equipment, but the last time, they were adamant that any receiver adds, except for defective swaps, required a commitment.


----------



## evan_s (Mar 4, 2008)

rudeney said:


> Can you post official D* policy that states that? Twice I have added owned equipment and been required to agree to a new commitment. Once I was able to negotiate my way out of it by arguing it was self-installed used equipment, but the last time, they were adamant that any receiver adds, except for defective swaps, required a commitment.


I'm sure there is not suppose to be a commitment when activating owned equipment. The commitment for an install or activating leased equipment is because you are receiving something at a discounted price and in exchange agreeing to be a customer for x period of time or pay penalties.

With that said I'm not at all surprised you are having problems with that. I'm sure most of the CSRs haven't been there long enough to remember when everything was owned and not leased and they probably rarely deal with customer owned equipment. The Card Access team seems to be the best at handling these properly from reports on this board.


----------



## dmurphy (Sep 28, 2006)

barkster99 said:


> As a longtime Tivo user, I can join the ranks of those that go through the anguish of no more Tivo. Damn! Let the games begin!


You'll be fine. I had some of the original DTiVo units (Hughes GXCEBOT's) and made the switch to r15/hr20's and life is just peachy. Really.

You'll appreciate some of the niceties of the HR20/HR21 series. Press record in the guide to record a show. Twice makes it a Season Pass. No extra menus like on the TiVo.

Little things like that.


----------



## rudeney (May 28, 2007)

evan_s said:


> I'm sure there is not suppose to be a commitment when activating owned equipment. The commitment for an install or activating leased equipment is because you are receiving something at a discounted price and in exchange agreeing to be a customer for x period of time or pay penalties.
> 
> With that said I'm not at all surprised you are having problems with that. I'm sure most of the CSRs haven't been there long enough to remember when everything was owned and not leased and they probably rarely deal with customer owned equipment. The Card Access team seems to be the best at handling these properly from reports on this board.


Yes, I understand the whole reason for a commitment being that D* needs to have time to recoup their costs in equipment that is sold/leased at a discount and the cost of installing it. I had never dealt with D* commitments before as I had always bought (at full non-subsidized prices) and installed all my own equipment.

A little over two years ago, I went to install a used UTV to replace an older non-DVR receiver. I had to pay $20 for a new access card and when I called to activate it, I was told about the commitment. I had no intentions of leaving D*, but I did not feel "right" about having to commit to two years of service just because I was activating a receiver that D* had long ago recouped it costs on from the original owner and had incurred no expenses for me to acquire and install. I argued about it and a manager was consulted who agreed to waive the commitment due to it being a "self-install of used equipment". A few months later, I finally replaced the last of my non-DVR's with another used UTV. This time, they refused to waive the commitment. I hung up and called back and got a different CSR and supervisor. They told me that the only time the commitment could be waived was in the case of replacing a failed receiver under the PP. Period. They saw on my account where it was waived previously and refused to do it again. I begrudgingly accepted the commitment thinking "Well, I'm not going anywhere anytime soon.." of course this prevented me from getting any "deals" on the HR20 when it came out.

I will admit that my experience with the commitment was two years ago, so maybe things may have changed, but I still say that it's unwise to post statements about D* policy unless they can be backed-up with links to the actual contract, and as far as I can find, there is not publicly-available version of those policies. Of one could call a CSR, but we all know what sort of great answer that will give us!


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

mhayes70 said:


> Hmmmm....... Then I wonder why Dish is losing so many subscribers??


Bad business model, crappy equipment, no Yes Network. Witness the business models of GM and Ford vs Toyota.

Rich


----------



## DrummerBoy523 (Jan 9, 2007)

bhelton71 said:


> That sounds like dangerous advice nowadays - other threads have indicated the CSR may very well take you up on the Cancel offer.


the "cancel" just gets you to a retention rep. THe rep will ask you why you are calling and you then state your case.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

I just called up and ordered a new DVR and got the $99 + shipping price. Wanted to make sure there wasn't a run on the Retention Department. These things are better talked about on PMs or emails. Just a thought.

Rich


----------



## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

DrummerBoy523 said:


> the "cancel" just gets you to a retention rep. THe rep will ask you why you are calling and you then state your case.


And now a days a posssible, ok your service is canceled effective today.


----------



## seanmcgpa (Sep 12, 2006)

I see the "Special Offer for Valued Customers" - $99 for an HR-21 but when I add the unit to my cart, I get a forced "installation" and the total is $198.00 

Any ideas what to do now? Has anyone purchases an HR-21 (lease) for $98?


----------



## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

After you say "Cancel" and make your request, what do you do if the CSR says "I'm sorry to hear that but we can't provide you with any discounts right now?"

Do you say "OK, I was just kidding!" Or "Psych!" Or what?


----------



## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

paulman182 said:


> After you say "Cancel" and make your request, what do you do if the CSR says "I'm sorry to hear that but we can't provide you with any discounts right now?"
> 
> Do you say "OK, I was just kidding!" Or "Psych!" Or what?


Simple. You simply state you are *considering *other offers from cable or dish and are wondering what D* can do.

As others have stated, "cancel" just gets you to retention. Once you are there, I would not say "The only way I'll stay is if you give me free equipment", because they may say they won't do it and then cancel you.


----------



## seanmcgpa (Sep 12, 2006)

Certainly not trying to hijack the thread - but does anyone know how to order the $99 HR-21 from directv.com? I cannot order this online - has anyone been able to do it?


----------



## barkster99 (Jun 5, 2008)

seanmcgpa said:


> I see the "Special Offer for Valued Customers" - $99 for an HR-21 but when I add the unit to my cart, I get a forced "installation" and the total is $198.00
> 
> Any ideas what to do now? Has anyone purchases an HR-21 (lease) for $98?


Wow, is this thread still going???

I'm the guy that started this. Yes, I was able to order online for $99 with no shipping and no installation. As posted earlier, I did call and ask nice for some freebies (mentioning Dish and local cable) but... no bites. So it goes.

Installer came 2 days ago. Ended up with reconditioned HR20 but that's no big deal to me. In fact, I can use the OTA tuner. Having some issues with installation but... that's another thread.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

seanmcgpa said:


> I see the "Special Offer for Valued Customers" - $99 for an HR-21 but when I add the unit to my cart, I get a forced "installation" and the total is $198.00
> 
> Any ideas what to do now? Has anyone purchases an HR-21 (lease) for $98?


I've got one being delivered Monday. Dealt with the Retention Dept. I have an email from D* stating the price of the transaction and it is correct. Call them back and complain.

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

paulman182 said:


> After you say "Cancel" and make your request, what do you do if the CSR says "I'm sorry to hear that but we can't provide you with any discounts right now?"
> 
> Do you say "OK, I was just kidding!" Or "Psych!" Or what?


That has never happened to me, but a thread like this is liable to kill the whole "retention" thing. Something like this should be discussed on PMs or emails.

Man, I don't which avatar is uglier, the flying pig or yours. That flying pig is really gross and if you were traveling in that direction when you picked that Frankenstein avatar, you succeeded. No offense meant.

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

raott said:


> Simple. You simply state you are *considering *other offers from cable or dish and are wondering what D* can do.
> 
> As others have stated, "cancel" just gets you to retention. Once you are there, I would not say "The only way I'll stay is if you give me free equipment", because they may say they won't do it and then cancel you.


Retention's only reason for existence is to keep subs. They will not cancel you unless you really are serious about it.

Rich


----------



## TigerDriver (Jul 27, 2007)

rudeney said:


> You are not going to get immediately canceled by saying "cancel service" at the initial voice response prompt! All that will happen is that you get connected to a specialized CSR in the Customer Retention department.
> 
> Of course if you then say you are calling to cancel, or something like, "I'm canceling unless you do X for me," then yes, you might get canceled at that point. However, if you nicely explain that you've been a long-time subscriber, paid your bill on time, and are gathering competing offers for an upgrade to HD, you might just get what a really good deal.


Perfect advice. The last time I was "out of contract," I was running a HR10-250 and two SD Tivo units. I used the "cancel service" subterfuge in the phone tree. I told the Retention Specialist that since I was out of contract, I was "reviewing" competing options. She asked what the nearest competitor was offering, and I simply said that my next door neighbor got spectacular results from a branded Tivo unit running two Comcast cable-cards, and that FIOS would be available here "soon."

The Retention person made me an offer (a very good one), and I told her I'd get back to her. She pointed out that it would be better if she contacted me, so we agreed upon a day and time (about a week later, mid-afternoon).

I told her that I was going to decline her offer (notice that I didn't say I was going to cancel service), and that I was going to look into Dish and FIOS. She then made me the following offer:

(1) I keep my HR10-250 with no lease fee.
(2) Install of new 5-lnb dish: FREE
(3) An HR20-100 free.
(4) An option to purchase one more HR20100 at $99 during my 2-year committment without resetting my committment. 
(5) HD service : Free 6 months
(6) DVR service: Free for 6months
(7) Stars/Cinemax: FREE 6 months
(8) A one-year Free bump in programming package.
(9) I agreed to accept this offer if she added one free season of the College Football package. She said she could not do free because it was shared royalty contract, but I could have it at half price.

I told her I would agree to her offer as soon as I got it in writing via email. She sent the email in about an hour, cautioning me not to respond to the email, but to await her call. After an hour or so she phoned back and we closed the deal.

After a few months, I decided to get a second HR20-100 and discovered that they couldn't promise that model, and that I might get OTA-less HR21 instead. I pointed out that my deal specfically named the HR20-100 and if were going to give me a tunerless model, I wanted it for free--tp which they agreed. NOTE: at this point they told me that my committment would be restarted--I told them to read the terms of my last committment, which they did, and waived the committment extension.

Since I was committing to spending almost $3,000 over the next two years, I was determined to conduct the negotiations in a calm business-like manner (no raised voices, no threats, etc.). The Retention Specialist behaved the same.

I'm happy. (Except I wish that D* would stop calling me every couple of weeks asking me to upgrade the High-Def package.)


----------



## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

seanmcgpa said:


> I see the "Special Offer for Valued Customers" - $99 for an HR-21 but when I add the unit to my cart, I get a forced "installation" and the total is $198.00
> 
> Any ideas what to do now? Has anyone purchases an HR-21 (lease) for $98?


Do you currently have HD service or are you upgrading to HD with this new DVR? If the latter, you probably need to have a new dish installed. If that's the case, DirecTV charges for the installation then. If you are just getting a receiver to swap out then generally they do not charge the installation fee as they will just FedEx the new receiver to you.

- Merg


----------



## cdhutch (Nov 22, 2007)

Hello,
A few months back I puchased 2 x HR-20 receivers from Solid Signal. I recently moved and utilized the DirecTV Moving program, and added the two purchased DVR's to my account. When I look at my DirecTV bill, the receivers are listed as "leased receivers" as opposed to "additional receiver" even though DTV never provided them to me. Is there any advantage to me contacting DirecTV about this, or is it just semantics?
Thank you,
Craig


----------



## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

Even though you purchased them through a retailer they are still leased units unless you paid $499 for each unit.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

cdhutch said:


> Hello,
> A few months back I puchased 2 x HR-20 receivers from Solid Signal. I recently moved and utilized the DirecTV Moving program, and added the two purchased DVR's to my account. When I look at my DirecTV bill, the receivers are listed as "leased receivers" as opposed to "additional receiver" even though DTV never provided them to me. Is there any advantage to me contacting DirecTV about this, or is it just semantics?
> Thank you,
> Craig


Solid Signal is an authorized dealer for DirecTv and unless you paid full price for them, they will show up as a leased unit. Is there an advantage to owning them? If you are never going to open one up, no. If you want to sell one, yes.

It is more than semantics tho. The leased unit belongs to D* and will show up on their books as property. I think their leasing program was a good business step for them to take. Makes them look as if they have a greater worth.

You might call D* and see if they can put them on your account as owned, since I gather that they showed up as owned before you moved. You never know what a call will bring.

Rich


----------



## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

I know I've said this before but you pay the same $4.99 a month owning or leasing. There is no advantage to own them because you'll pay a whole lot more then $99 and they have virtually no resale value as it is. Since most people can get a new one for $99-$199 anyway. 

By the time you may want to sell it the "next big thing" new generation receiver will be out and it will be worthless anyway. You can get an HR10 for $50 or less the past year or two for example.

To me there is no advantage to actually owning them and if you have a problem then you have to replace them out of pocket unless you pay the protection plan.

But if owning makes you feel better then by all means call and see what's up, you never know. But "buying" them at Best Buy, Circuit City or Solid Signal is actually just a lease.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

bonscott87 said:


> I know I've said this before but you pay the same $4.99 a month owning or leasing. There is no advantage to own them because you'll pay a whole lot more then $99 and they have virtually no resale value as it is. Since most people can get a new one for $99-$199 anyway.
> 
> By the time you may want to sell it the "next big thing" new generation receiver will be out and it will be worthless anyway. You can get an HR10 for $50 or less the past year or two for example.
> 
> ...


To back up what Scott just posted, the HR10 TiVos are selling for about 20 bucks on eBay.

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

bonscott87 said:


> I know I've said this before but you pay the same $4.99 a month owning or leasing. There is no advantage to own them because you'll pay a whole lot more then $99 and they have virtually no resale value as it is. Since most people can get a new one for $99-$199 anyway.
> 
> By the time you may want to sell it the "next big thing" new generation receiver will be out and it will be worthless anyway. You can get an HR10 for $50 or less the past year or two for example.
> 
> ...


Yesterday, Signal Source was selling the HRs for $229. Wonder what he paid for his?

Rich


----------

