# New York Yankee admits steroid use.



## mainedish (Mar 25, 2003)

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/12/02/BALCO.TMP&type=printable

According to some of the sports radio shows this may explain why he is sick.


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## Dustin_Moore (Aug 8, 2003)

one step closer to Barry Balco Bonds...


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## SamC (Jan 20, 2003)

Barry Bonds: fake, cheating liar.

Erase his name from the annals of Baseball.


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

Barry who?


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## BlackHitachi (Jan 1, 2004)

SamC said:


> Barry Bonds: fake, cheating liar.
> 
> Erase his name from the annals of Baseball.


Also Big mac i mean come on do u really think he hit 70 by him self also?? :lol:


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## durl (Mar 27, 2003)

Barry Bonds finally admitted that he "unknowingly" took steroids? I never, EVER thought that Barry took steroids. This is just a shock!

Anyway, I think most rational people knew Bonds was juicing up just by looking at the guy.

McGuire, if I'm not mistaken, was taking Andro the year he hit 70. I believe that was not a banned substance at the time, (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) but I do agree that it does taint his temporary record.


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## djlong (Jul 8, 2002)

You still have to hit the ball and steroids don't help that one bit. *Nothing* can improve hand/eye coordination except talent and practice.


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## SamC (Jan 20, 2003)

So? Bonds, like a lot of people can hit a baseball. If he were honest, he would hit a lot of fly ball outs. But he cheated and added an extra 50-75 feet to his power and hit a lot of illegal home runs. The footnotes to the history of Baseball is full of people who hit a lot of fly ball outs.

He is a liar, then and now, unless you really believe that he honestly thought he was taking "Flax Seed Oil", whatever that is.

An honest player was and is obligated under the rules of the sport to turn himself in. He never did. Every action he made on the field of play from the day he took the first illegal drug until today was an illegal and fraudulent act. 

He should be banned and his stolen illegal records erased.


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## Bogy (Mar 23, 2002)

Bonds should be stripped of his MVP award and it should be given to Albert Pujols, its rightful recipient.


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## BuckeyeChris (Apr 20, 2004)

djlong said:


> You still have to hit the ball and steroids don't help that one bit. *Nothing* can improve hand/eye coordination except talent and practice.


Yeah, but with steroids more of those doubles that failed to leave the park become home runs with the increased strength one gains with steroids.

Put an asterisk mark besides his records, ban him from the Hall of Fame, fine him and give him a lifetime ban from the game. That should be the punishment for anyone caught using steroids if the MLB Commissioner is serious about putting an end to doping in baseball. Bonds and Giambi should be made examples of.


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## BlackHitachi (Jan 1, 2004)

Bonds Juiced.. LOL LOL Man steroid cream does not even get into the blood stream long enough to do anything unless he soaked in a bath tub full of this stuff.. The media and some people who do not know about steroid use need to learn a bit!! Now if it comes out that bonds took the Anadrol like big Mac or a Needle in the butt then i will say ok he juiced.. Steroid cream!! lol Heck anybody with dry skin bee sting or poision oak can buy this weak Roid cream that does not get into the blood to really do anything except help you heal a bit faster and numb the pain. Man as an ex Football player in college and watching Most of your QB take pain pills and this Cream you would loose your minds.. :grin:


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## BuckeyeChris (Apr 20, 2004)

BlackHitachi said:


> Bonds Juiced.. LOL LOL Man steroid cream does not even get into the blood stream long enough to do anything unless he soaked in a bath tub full of this stuff.. The media and some people who do not know about steroid use need to learn a bit!! Now if it comes out that bonds took the Anadrol like big Mac or a Needle in the butt then i will say ok he juiced.. Steroid cream!! lol Heck anybody with dry skin bee sting or poision oak can buy this weak Roid cream that does not get into the blood to really do anything except help you heal a bit faster and numb the pain. Man as an ex Football player in college and watching Most of your QB take pain pills and this Cream you would loose your minds.. :grin:


The FDA would disagree with you as tetrahydrogestrinone, "clear" or THG as it is commonly known as is and what Bonds and Giambi have been accused of using, is not as harmless as you say.

...The use of THG by athletes, as an alternative to other banned anabolic steroids, was recently disclosed by the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency. *This substance* is *closely* and *structurally related* to two *other synthetic anabolic steroids*, gestrinone and trenbolone.* Anabolic steroids, which build muscle mass, can have serious long-term health consequences* in men, women, and children.​
What Bonds and Giambi have used is not the same thing you would put on a bee sting.


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## BlackHitachi (Jan 1, 2004)

BuckeyeChris said:


> The FDA would disagree with you as tetrahydrogestrinone, "clear" or THG as it is commonly known as is and what Bonds and Giambi have been accused of using, is not as harmless as you say.
> 
> ...The use of THG by athletes, as an alternative to other banned anabolic steroids, was recently disclosed by the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency. *This substance* is *closely* and *structurally related* to two *other synthetic anabolic steroids*, gestrinone and trenbolone.* Anabolic steroids, which build muscle mass, can have serious long-term health consequences* in men, women, and children.​
> What Bonds and Giambi have used is not the same thing you would put on a bee sting.


Look i am not saying that All Baseball players for the last well since the mid 80's have been taking this crap.. ROIDS yea The cream is no where as bad as the needle or the pill. THG yea raises your body temp to help lose fat. Wow i will hit the ball fare now. Both Ges and tren both burn body fat!! Which promots lean body mass. I will still say creams are not as bad those are creams you can get for bee stings. Ask anyone who has allergies to bee stings and know whats in the shot. The government don't get to Tax weed juice and other drugs there for deem them EVIL!! BAD!! Alcohol is worse but they get tax money from it so that makes it OK.. Look I don't do drugs work hard to take care of my family. At the same time i am not going to blame these players for what baseball has know for a long time. I blame baseball also. They wanted more home runs OK.. This is true. Lower the mound more teams water down the talent oh yea no drug testing until NOW??


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## Msguy (May 23, 2003)

Bonds knew he was taking sterroids. I remember when he was in Pittsburgh he didn't look the same as he does now. He's got more muscle and has bulked up a hell of alot more since his Pittsburgh days!


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## John Corn (Mar 21, 2002)

Selig needs to take quick decisive action to show that this will not be tolerated. Under the "best interests of baseball" clause Bud needs to make an example of both Bonds and Giambi.

1) Both should be suspend for at least 1/2 the season. Giambi for a whole season because he admitted use.

2) Bond's single season home run record should be removed from the record books. His career HR mark should also not be counted as official.

3) All MVP awards for these two players in 2001 and later should be taken back. 

4) MLB should unilateraly put in place a random drug testing policy with a 40 game ban for a first offense followed by an entire season season for any subsequent offense. 

That should get the players attention. 

Former White Sox pitcher Jack McDowell wrote a great piece on the steroids issue and brought up very good points.

think about how many clean players lost their jobs to juiced up guys.

check it out if you fellas have the time...


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## Msguy (May 23, 2003)

Alot of People think Bonds is such a great player but i don't think he is and i never have thought he was so "Great" Pete Rose Gambled. A man should be able to do with his money whatever he wants to do. Even if it is gambling. It's his money, nobody else's. Bonds and Giambi should be banned from baseball, Barry's home run record stripped from the record books, and Pete Rose should be reinstated into baseball and put into the hall of fame TOMORROW!


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## djlong (Jul 8, 2002)

So does that mean Ruth should be stripped of his place in the record books because of the short RF porch in Yankee Stadium? After all that was an unfair advantage, playing 77 games/year there for a lefty.

I'm so sick to death of all this "strip this guy of the record" talk..

Steroids don't make you faster. Steroids will also make you more injury prone. Steroids will shorten your career. Steroids don't help you hit the ball. In point of fact, steroid could probably be shown to *decrease* one's batting average due to reduce flexibility and dexterity.

Notice - *nobody* mentioned Mark McGwire and his place in the record books. No, only Bonds gets that treatment.

Never really been a fan of Bonds except to admire his achievements. But they say he's 'surly' to the press. And he's got something else working against him that I hesitate to even mention.

But to compare that to a guy who had a financial interest in watching his team lose - and that guy happened to be the FIELD MANAGER at the time..

Giambi admits to using more steroids than Bonds seems to be accused of - and do you notice how injured Giambi is? Notice how slow he is to come back?


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

While you still need hand eye coordination etc physical strength is VERY important in determining how many of the balls you hit will leave the park. Look at the years he allegedly took the drug, his muscular development, and the dramatic increase in home run production. It is pretty clear that it had a MAJOR effect.

As A Red Sox fan I remember the career of Jim Rice. I his case his physical strength declined as he got older and his home run production was reduced dramatically during his last five years. true, advancing age probably hurt his timing as well. But it shows what normally happens to home run production as a player gets older.


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## BuckeyeChris (Apr 20, 2004)

djlong said:


> So does that mean Ruth should be stripped of his place in the record books because of the short RF porch in Yankee Stadium? After all that was an unfair advantage, playing 77 games/year there for a lefty.
> 
> I'm so sick to death of all this "strip this guy of the record" talk..
> 
> ...


Steroids make you stronger; they build muscle mass, and they also make you injury prone. That's documented. Hitting HRs takes strength. Take a look at these photos of Bonds and compare them. Check out his HR production in the early 90s compared to the past few years. There was quite a transformation.

Think of all the players who didn't juice and played with integrity but were edged out by players who did juice. That's not fair at all, and players like Bonds and Giambi should be tossed. To not come down hard on them, sets the wrong example for young athletes looking for that edge.


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

MC guire BTW WAS mentioned in the thread.


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## BlackHitachi (Jan 1, 2004)

Geronimo said:


> MC guire BTW WAS mentioned in the thread.


Yea but no one wants to strip him of anything?? HUM why is that?? :nono:

Oh yea and when BABE Ruth played there was another Baseball League that played the Major League all stars Evey year and never lost!! Oh yea but they did not count they where a little to dark to be real Baseball players.. You know Those Blacks who are not as good as whites?? :lol:  Of course they probably lost because it was exhibition and really did not mean any thing yea thats it..


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## SamC (Jan 20, 2003)

You really are trying to read race into something that is just not racial.

First, you argue that "steroids don't work". The rejoinder to that is simply called "Barry Bonds". He is a steroid user and obviously these work. End of that discussion.

Ruth played in a era where THE RULES excluded blacks. He followed the rules. 

McGwire MAY have taken steroids. There is only circumstancial evidence. There is no evidence that he broke THE RULES.

Bonds ADMITEDLY broke THE RULES. Every act that he made on the field of play was a cheating, false, fake, dishonest, illegal act. He was not following the RULES of Baseball. We know what his LEGAL batting average is, it is .000. We know what his legal home run total is, it is 0. We know how many MVP awards he won legally, none.

He has no record of any acomplishment in Baseball under the RULES of Baseball whatsoever. He does not exist. He is a cheat. His race has no bearing on it. His character does.


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## djlong (Jul 8, 2002)

McGwire *admitted* taking andro, for one.

Let's see - all those ballplayers who took cocaine for part of their careers, I suppose THEY don't exist - that was against the rules. Rose had NO hits in MLB because HE broke the rules. Pedro Martinez has thrown a few beanballs - guess he's out too.

ANd have they said *when* he took these? What about everything he did BEFORE then?

And what about all the training methods out there now that weren't there before? What about all the OTHER drugs? I'm sure that Curt Schilling wasn't devoid of, say, painkillers in the World Series.

And while it may not be 100% true, athletes are not doctors and *do* depend on what a trainer tells them. Heck, listen to Roger Clemens talk and you'll know that he's no rocket scientist - just an incredibly talented baseball pitcher.


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## BuckeyeChris (Apr 20, 2004)

djlong said:


> McGwire *admitted* taking andro, for one.
> 
> Let's see - all those ballplayers who took cocaine for part of their careers, I suppose THEY don't exist - that was against the rules. Rose had NO hits in MLB because HE broke the rules. Pedro Martinez has thrown a few beanballs - guess he's out too.
> 
> ...


If you break the rules, then you should be disciplined, period. Steroid use is against the rules of baseball. Mac's Andro use was not against the rules at the time.

Baseball is hypocritical when it comes to drug use and gambling. Case in point is Daryl Strawberry and Dwight Gooden's drug use. Both were allowed to continue to re-enter the game after drug rehabilitation on numerous occasions and given countless chances. However, Pete Rose gambled on baseball and received a life suspension, and he probably will never be elected to the Hall of Fame.

Some argue that drug use doesn't harm the game as much as it harms the individual and that gambling on baseball ruins the integrity of the game. I disagree. Both harm the game.

Drug use, especially steroid use, sends the message to players, especially to the youth, that it's okay to use drugs because my favorite player does it. _If_ I get caught, then I'll get a second or even third chance. They also receive the message that steroid use is not only okay because my peers do it, but it's the only way to gain a quick edge; and every player is looking for that edge.

*If baseball doesn't come down hard on steroid users, then it is condoning it*. MLB needs to send a message to abusers and make examples of them. The message should be that if you do steroids you do not belong in professional baseball and your records will be wiped clear from the books. If baseball does anything less than that, then they are the ones responsible for damaging the integrity of the game because every player who achieves records, especially power records like home runs and RBIs, will be suspected of doping and their records will have an asterisk beside them in most people's minds.

Senator McCain has warned MLB that if they don't get their act together, Congress will do it for them. How much support he has and what if anything they can do is debatable. However, Sen. McCain is a popular no nonsense leader in Washington who carries a lot of clout. If I were MLB and the player's union, I would not argue with him, nor would I want the federal government regulating my livelihood.


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

There are rules against cocaine use and they are enforced. They involve fines and rehab for the first few offenses. But you can be banned from the sport for repeated violations. 

We will never know if Rose got more hits (unlikely) or fewer (possible) because of his betting. What we do know is that baseball like oither major sports forbids players to bet or to associate with gamblers because of the potential for game rigging, or the passing on information and the qssociated damage to the game. Rose apparently violated those rules and it led to his ban just as it has for others.

But these are different situatuions with different rules. Other than stating that rules need to be enforced compariusons here are largely invalid.

No one iss aying thought hat Bonds used steroids throughout his career or even that he uses them now. Statements like his legal batting average is .000 or that his legal home run total is 0 are hyperbole at best.



Bonds used steroids. I do not know what the baseball rulebook says about steroid use. I am no even sure that his grand jury testimony can be used against him here. But baseball needs to enforce whatever rules it has in this area.

As for the statements of Sen. McCain I do not think that they apply. Frankly I don't think yhat baseball can RETROACTIVELY change its rules, nor can Congress enact legislation like that. So whatever happens it will be applied to future cases.


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## durl (Mar 27, 2003)

What to do about Bonds is going to be a very tricky issue. We know that steroids affect the body physically and help improve performance. Why else would players take them if they don't help them to perform to a higher degree? (Even the recuperating effects of steroids are going to help a ballplayer even if the strength gain is minimal.) As harsh as it may sound, my initial reaction is to say that Bonds should be stripped of his hitting records. Baseball supposedly has rules. It needs to enforce them to keep it from becoming more of a joke. McQuire is a slightly different case since Andro wasn't a banned substance at the time.

I believe Bonds was a serious HOF candidate before he started bulking up. It's a shame that he felt the need to do illegal things to help his game.

Hopefully this incident will force the player's union to come to the table and agree to an effective anti-doping policy. And Congress needs to just stay out of it. They've got plenty of other things to do.


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## BlackHitachi (Jan 1, 2004)

SamC said:


> You really are trying to read race into something that is just not racial.
> 
> First, you argue that "steroids don't work". The rejoinder to that is simply called "Barry Bonds". He is a steroid user and obviously these work. End of that discussion.
> 
> ...


Yea right.. Well i am sorry i even posted in this post. Me playing ball in the Big 12 having pro bodybuilders as friends i have seen alot. I also know alot. Andro you wanna know why its banned?? ITS ANADROL which is the most powerful steroid out there. Its very toxic and promots injury. Hope big mac's back is better.. At least he followed the rules. well then there are alot of baseball players who are OK then.. Hey some one tell Jason Giambi he is not going to get in trouble since Major league base ball did not test for steroids until last year!! so anything before that was OK. There was no rule!! Major league baseball should have tested Big mac but did not want to for one simple reason. IT DID NOT CARE you guys were going crazy over him wanting him to beat Sammy!! Baseball made lots of money off of alot more then BONDS hitting the ball. Major league baseball wanted more runs scored and thats all to it. We all know they should not be taking that crap but they have been for a wile. Its been around since the 1930's. Wide spread much later in the US but around all the same.


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## James_F (Apr 23, 2002)

Everyone knows who my favorite baseball player is and understand that I'm not sure what to feel just yet, but I have these thoughts...

1. Barry said he didn't take them, but told the Grand Jury that he did. I don't care if it was by mistake or you were fooled into doing it. He should have not said to the public he didn't take them, he should have said no comment or that he couldn't say anything because of the Grand Jury. Frankly he lied and that just pisses me off to no end.

2. We need to remember that prior to 2003, there was nothing in baseball's rules prohibiting their use. And since then, Bonds or Giambi or any player who has not failed a drug test cannot be subject to any kind of sanction from MLB or their teams, regardless of their leaked testimony. So all this talk about asterisk's and possible suspensions is one big pile of BS. It ain't gonna happen.

3. Even if he did take them in 2001, he still proved again this year he is the best player in the history of baseball. But I have to ask is why even 2 years later, he needed them in the first place. If he was fooled into taking them, I would have been pissed to no end and fired my trainer.

Things just don't seem to add up here so I'm assume what was leaked to the press isn't the full story. Barry was my favorite baseball player and I'm not sure how I feel about him right now, this all needs to sink in. He can't speak because of the gag order, but he should say something to his fans who stood by him.

If anyone thinks that just these 10-20 athletes at BALCO are the only ones taking this kind of "help" they are delirious. I played baseball in College and 8 of my teammates were taking some kind of "supplement". I personally think we should just allow the use of these drugs because people are just going to keep finding ways around the system. 

I guess we all know why the USA Olympic Baseball team didn't go to the Olympics this year. The good players were all on the juice and they couldn't pass the tests to get on the team.


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## Msguy (May 23, 2003)

I think Bonds and Giambi should be made examples of. Barry especially. After all it was his trainer supplying it to the player (s) *who knows how many other MLB players out there are being supplied? If you believe for 1 minute that Bonds didn't know he was taking sterroids i have a bridge down in Florida at Alligator alley that i need to talk to you about selling rather cheap. I think Barry Bonds and Giambi from the Yankees seriously need to be thrown out of baseball. I don't think a slap on the hand or a warning is going to do it. The story has been in the news for the past 2 or 3 seasons now. Major League Baseball needs to implement drug testing starting this season for all the players. If you use the stuff. You Don't Play!


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## djlong (Jul 8, 2002)

Assume for a moment that they knew they were taking the drugs that they probably can't even *pronounce*. 

*It* *was* *legal* by the rules of baseball at the time.


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## Msguy (May 23, 2003)

Oh Come On Give Me A Break!!! They know what they were doing. What idiot is gonna take something not knowing exactly what it is they are taking? Give Me a Break!! I as well as many other baseball fans didn't just fall off the turnip truck yesterday :lol: That's just like Sosa saying his corked bat was for batting practice purposes only but yet he "accidentally" grabbed the wrong bat back in 2003 in that interleague game with Tampa Bay. :lol:


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## djlong (Jul 8, 2002)

I don't know exactly what drugs my anesthetist gave me for my surgery a couple of months ago.

I don't know exactly what's in the fruit drinks at the bread shop next door.

In both cases, I could ask and do research but I don't.

Believe me, some of these athletes are as dumb as fence posts in real world terms - but they're incredibly talented at highly specialized sporting tasks.

I mean, come on, how can you possibly give any credit to someone making over $10M/year who, when face with the prospect of losing this year's income (Ron Artest) says "Hey, I've got a family to feed" (after having made well into 8 figures worth of money over the past few years). You think this guy even knows how to read his car's owners manual?


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## BuckeyeChris (Apr 20, 2004)

Fill Them Up with the Steroids Sing-Along  :lol:


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## SAEMike (May 29, 2004)

James_F said:


> We need to remember that prior to 2003, there was nothing in baseball's rules prohibiting their use. And since then, Bonds or Giambi or any player who has not failed a drug test cannot be subject to any kind of sanction from MLB or their teams, regardless of their leaked testimony. So all this talk about asterisk's and possible suspensions is one big pile of BS. It ain't gonna happen.


Nearly every MLB contract has a clause that disallows players from doing things that would hurt the franchise, including illegal activity. When these players did these things, they broke the law, and brought the integrity of all of Major League Baseball into question to many fans across the country. It would be hard to say that this was not "activity detrimental to the team".

They cheated, pure and simple. They are cheaters, liars and criminals. They should be banned from baseball, stripped of their awards, banned from the Hall of Fame, charged criminally and set to pasture in disgust.

This will not happen of course, Barry Bonds will continue to show his disdain for anything that does not help him personally and claim a phoney career home run record from a man who had to endure death threats, racial slurs from players and fans, and the most intense hatred you could imagine while breaking Babe Ruth's record, fairly.


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## SAEMike (May 29, 2004)

djlong said:


> I don't know exactly what drugs my anesthetist gave me for my surgery a couple of months ago.
> 
> I don't know exactly what's in the fruit drinks at the bread shop next door.
> 
> ...


Barry Bonds is the biggest health food and nutrition freak in the world. He knows EXACTLY what goes into his body. His food is weighed and specific to a very strict diet. There is no way he took these steroids on blind faith. He knew what was going into his body, he's just keeping a glimmer of plausible deniability.


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## djlong (Jul 8, 2002)

Since spitting is illegal in New York, should we ban from baseball all players who spit?


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## SAEMike (May 29, 2004)

djlong said:


> Since spitting is illegal in New York, should we ban from baseball all players who spit?


Aw yes, because all crimes are equal, and of course, spitting is cheating.

Good point!


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## Msguy (May 23, 2003)

Betting on Baseball was against the rules and they haven't allowed Pete Rose back in baseball yet. All he did was do what all other Americans are trying to do. And that is make a living and who are we or anyone for that matter to tell him what he can and can't do with his money? It's illegal to use drugs and most of us if we were to get caught would have some kind of price to pay. It's not illegal to gamble. Why should athletes or stars be any different? I think using Drug enhancements to be stronger and give ones self an advantage is just pure wrong it's not natural. Pete Rose Deserves to be reinstated into baseball and he deserves more than any former player to be in the Baseball Hall of Fame in Cooperstown and given a 2nd chance. Barry Bonds and Giambi from the Yankees need to be banned from baseball. I mean it's illegal to use sterroids unless prescribed or is needed for a health matter.


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## El Pescador (Jul 30, 2004)

Msguy said:


> Betting on Baseball was against the rules and they haven't allowed Pete Rose back in baseball yet. All he did was do what all other Americans are trying to do. And that is make a living and who are we or anyone for that matter to tell him what he can and can't do with his money? It's illegal to use drugs and most of us if we were to get caught would have some kind of price to pay. It's not illegal to gamble. Why should athletes or stars be any different? I think using Drug enhancements to be stronger and give ones self an advantage is just pure wrong it's not natural. Pete Rose Deserves to be reinstated into baseball and he deserves more than any former player to be in the Baseball Hall of Fame in Cooperstown and given a 2nd chance. Barry Bonds and Giambi from the Yankees need to be banned from baseball. I mean it's illegal to use sterroids unless prescribed or is needed for a health
> 
> matter.


Since when is it legal to bet on sporting events? Sorry Pete Rose broke the law and the rules of baseball.

As for Bonds I do nto think he should have taken steroids. Having said that it did not violate the rules of the gamne when he took them----at least based on what we know now. Therefore I don't see how MLB could take action against him. Giambi may be another matter as I understand he may have used them after the ban.

So while we can stop rooting for Bonds, look at his records with a jaundiced eye, or turn our backs when he hits homers 715 and 756, I see no justification for a ban based on activity that was not a violation of the rules at the time.


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## SAEMike (May 29, 2004)

El Pescador said:


> Since when is it legal to bet on sporting events? Sorry Pete Rose broke the law and the rules of baseball.


It is illegal to bet on sporting events in most states and cities in this country. It certainly was illegal in Cincinatti where he placed most of his bets.


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## James_F (Apr 23, 2002)

SAEMike said:


> Nearly every MLB contract has a clause that disallows players from doing things that would hurt the franchise, including illegal activity. When these players did these things, they broke the law, and brought the integrity of all of Major League Baseball into question to many fans across the country. It would be hard to say that this was not "activity detrimental to the team".


Who broke the law? It is not illegal to take steroids.


> They cheated, pure and simple. They are cheaters, liars and criminals. They should be banned from baseball, stripped of their awards, banned from the Hall of Fame, charged criminally and set to pasture in disgust.


So eliminate half the hall of fame.  Baseball and cheating go hand in hand since the time of Ty Cobb.


> This will not happen of course, Barry Bonds will continue to show his disdain for anything that does not help him personally and claim a phoney career home run record from a man who had to endure death threats, racial slurs from players and fans, and the most intense hatred you could imagine while breaking Babe Ruth's record, fairly.


LOL, sure....

Let see how many people throw back a Barry Bonds home run this year. It will be ZERO.


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## Guest (Dec 13, 2004)

djlong said:


> Assume for a moment that they knew they were taking the drugs that they probably can't even *pronounce*.
> 
> *It* *was* *legal* by the rules of baseball at the time.


It was not legal by the rules of baseball at the time. It would only be legal if they had a prescription.


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## SAEMike (May 29, 2004)

James_F said:


> Who broke the law? It is not illegal to take steroids.


It is absolutely illegal to take steroids. If it weren't, there would be no grand jury testimony to leak. The Clear is an illegal substance, and HGH is illegal without a doctors prescription.


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## djlong (Jul 8, 2002)

Legal said:


> It was not legal by the rules of baseball at the time. It would only be legal if they had a prescription.


Do you know how easy it is to get a prescription for drugs that are far more dangerous than steroids?

Let's just say that my adoptive mother's suicide back in 1990 started a few investigations as authorities wondered just how she amassed a cache of painkillers. It was not that difficult.


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## SAEMike (May 29, 2004)

djlong said:


> Do you know how easy it is to get a prescription for drugs that are far more dangerous than steroids?
> 
> Let's just say that my adoptive mother's suicide back in 1990 started a few investigations as authorities wondered just how she amassed a cache of painkillers. It was not that difficult.


Obtaining a subscription that is not medically neccesary is just as illegal as obtaining the drug without one. Ask Rush Limbaugh.


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## El Pescador (Jul 30, 2004)

Legal said:


> It was not legal by the rules of baseball at the time. It would only be legal if they had a prescription.


You are confusing the rules of baseball with the law. Steroid use (withouta prescription) was illegal according to the law in 2001. A grand jury can investigate and indictments are possible. But in 2001 steroids were most definitely NOT banned under the rules of baseball.

So prosection was possible (I believe he has immunity now) but baseball has no grounds for action.


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## James_F (Apr 23, 2002)

SAEMike said:


> It is absolutely illegal to take steroids. If it weren't, there would be no grand jury testimony to leak. The Clear is an illegal substance, and HGH is illegal without a doctors prescription.


Again you prove you don't have a clue what you are talking about. I'll just end my discussion here with the statement below.

Barry did take steroids even though he said he didn't. That pisses me off to no end. Even if the he couldn't talk about what he said to the grand jury, he should have just given us a no comment. In the end this might cost him some endorsement deals, but it won't affect any records in baseball because he didn't take anything against the rules back in 2001.

The weird thing and what really makes me sad is given what happened last year, he obviously didn't need to take steroids. He is the best player ever and all he did is screw himself over in the eyes of many people including me. He'll be in the HOF and nothing will change over that.

Players are so medicated these days I'm begining to wonder why any of this matters. The fact that Schilling could pitch in the WS was a medical miricle and would not have happened in the 1960's. The question we need to ask ourselves in Baseball is how far we should go in either direction. Should we allow any treatments including steroids or say no medication at all. This middle ground only leads to what happened here with BALCO and will happen again.


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## SAEMike (May 29, 2004)

James_F said:


> Again you prove you don't have a clue what you are talking about. I'll just end my discussion here with the statement below.


So tell me again how taking steroids given to you by a personal trainer is not against the law? I'm really curious about this.


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## durl (Mar 27, 2003)

I'm gathering from some of the posts that steroids are illegal without a prescription, but baseball players are immune from this law. Doesn't make sense. If it's illegal to the general public, it's GOT to be illegal for baseball players as well. Just because baseball doesn't specifically prohibit otherwise illegal behavior doesn't mean that they are somehow exempt from the laws of the United States.


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## James_F (Apr 23, 2002)

durl said:


> I'm gathering from some of the posts that steroids are illegal without a prescription, but baseball players are immune from this law. Doesn't make sense. If it's illegal to the general public, it's GOT to be illegal for baseball players as well. Just because baseball doesn't specifically prohibit otherwise illegal behavior doesn't mean that they are somehow exempt from the laws of the United States.


The deal that allowed Barry to testify (as well as all the rest) included immunity from the deal.

Still even if they could prosecute those involved with BALCO its only a misdemeanor offense. Yes it is illegal to use steroids without a perception and even if you do have a prescription, it must be for medical purposes only.

The discussion was how it would affect people getting into the hall of fame. Since MLB didn't have any rules against steroids back then and that there is immunity from prosecution, the issue is dead.


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## James_F (Apr 23, 2002)

SAEMike said:


> So tell me again how taking steroids given to you by a personal trainer is not against the law? I'm really curious about this.


Because Barry and the others are immune from prosecution.


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## SAEMike (May 29, 2004)

James_F said:


> Because Barry and the others are immune from prosecution.


They recieved immunity for their crimes, yes, but it does not make it legal. They broke the law, the fact that they made a deal to avoid prosecution does not make their actions any less illegal.


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## James_F (Apr 23, 2002)

You argument holds no water. How many members of the HOF have been charged with a misdemeanor and allowed in? Possibly hundreds. Here we have someone who won't be charged and there is nothing that will change that.


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## El Pescador (Jul 30, 2004)

durl said:


> I'm gathering from some of the posts that steroids are illegal without a prescription, but baseball players are immune from this law. Doesn't make sense. If it's illegal to the general public, it's GOT to be illegal for baseball players as well. Just because baseball doesn't specifically prohibit otherwise illegal behavior doesn't mean that they are somehow exempt from the laws of the United States.


No one said that baseball players are immune from the law. It has been pointed out that Bonds and others cannot be prosecuted for their testimony but that is different.

What is being said is that the sport of baseball enforces the rules of baseball. It does not enforce the law. Therefore the sport of baseball has no grounds for action against Bonds since the only steriod use he has admitted to is before the ban.

The authorities enforce the law baseball enforces its rules.


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## SAEMike (May 29, 2004)

James_F said:


> You argument holds no water. How many members of the HOF have been charged with a misdemeanor and allowed in? Possibly hundreds. Here we have someone who won't be charged and there is nothing that will change that.


The reason I think they should be barred from the Hall of Fame is because they cheated, not because of their crimes.


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## James_F (Apr 23, 2002)

SAEMike said:


> The reason I think they should be barred from the Hall of Fame is because they cheated, not because of their crimes.


But they didn't, steroids were not illegal when they took them. Much like the spitball, it was legal. Heck, Gaylord Perry was ejected many times for throwing the spitball or greeseball and he got into the hall. I would argue that he wouldn't have had anywhere need the 300 wins without thowing it. Everyone knew he did it, he got ejected many times from games, but in the end it didn't matter.


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## djlong (Jul 8, 2002)

Actually, Perry was only caught *once*. Back when Darrel Johnson was managing the Red Sox, he had the ump check Perry and Perry was ejected.


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## SAEMike (May 29, 2004)

James_F said:


> But they didn't, steroids were not illegal when they took them. Much like the spitball, it was legal. Heck, Gaylord Perry was ejected many times for throwing the spitball or greeseball and he got into the hall. I would argue that he wouldn't have had anywhere need the 300 wins without thowing it. Everyone knew he did it, he got ejected many times from games, but in the end it didn't matter.


The fact that the players association helped the players cheat by strongarming a weak commissioner into a lax policy on drugs, does not make it any less cheating. I wouldn't have let Gaylord Perry in the Hall of Fame either.


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## James_F (Apr 23, 2002)

Fine, but it won't limit him from getting into the HOF and it won't stop him from not having an astrisk next to his name. Baseball should have seen this coming and done something about it. I wouldn't be surprised if there was 50% of all players using sterioids back in 2001. Steroids is just part of baseball and it won't change anytime soon.


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