# More SHIVA Madness!



## PrinceLH (Feb 18, 2003)

I spent some time visiting Massena, NY on Saturday and had some questions answered at the local Rat Shack. I was surprised to find out that Dishnetwork did not authorize the Massena area for the Plattsburgh, NY/Burlington, VT locals. Massena is about 80 miles west of Plattsburgh and can receive these stations over the air or on cable. There is no other DMA's even close to their location, with the next closest being Watertown, NY about 135 miles south west. Of course, they are eligible for National coverage but it would be nice to receive locals a little closer to their location. Anybody else here of similar circumstances?


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## clapple (Feb 11, 2003)

I doubt if Dish has any say in the matter. They just have to follow the law, which was purchased (from our wonderful politicians), by the NAB.


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## Cyclone (Jul 1, 2002)

Yeah, SHIVA is messed up. They should be able to offer any station that has a Grade B coverage in the respective area.


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## dlsnyder (Apr 24, 2002)

Back in the early 70's I briefly lived in Cornwall, Ontario not far from Massena. I seem to recall that the US stations carried on the cable system there were from Watertown. You'd think that the satellite rules would be equivalent to the cable rules at least. If in any particular locality if the local cable co. can carry a certain station then you should be able to get it on satellite as well if it is available. Seems like a no brainer...


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## PrinceLH (Feb 18, 2003)

To this day, Watertown only has a CBS, ABC and PBS affiliates. Back in the 70's they only had WWNY 7, a CBS affiliate. In Cornwall, Watertown is actually microwaved, along with Rochester, NY. Regarding Massena, approximatly 6 miles east and you can be authorized by Dish for Plattsburgh/Burlington. Going west of Massina, you have to travel 32 miles before you hit Ogdensburg, the next city/town of significance. If you go south for 30 miles, you end up in the Adirondack Mountains. It's crazy!


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## jrbdmb (Sep 5, 2002)

Take a look at the NY TV Markets map on the Echostar Knowledge Base:

http://ekb.dbstalk.com/TVMarkets/Maps/new_york[1].gif

Massena is in St. Lawrence County, part of the Watertown DMA. E* / D* cannot sell the Burlington locals here, only the Watertown locals (and I don't think either is carrying Watertown at this point). Like said above, 10 miles east you are in the Burlington DMA.


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## PrinceLH (Feb 18, 2003)

That's a great map. Do they have them for all states? I still don't know how they can say that Watertown, with only 3 stations, almost twice as far away as Plattsburgh, is in a grade B contour and is receivable in that area. They sure have a convoluted way of determining each area.


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

http://ekb.dbstalk.com/TVMarkets

This has all 50 states

The TV Markets demarkations have nothing to do with signal quality or strength. What they have to do is with the number of people in the county that actually watch the TV stations. Nielsen Media Research Company basically says more people watch X channels than Y channels in this county so this county is part of X market.

In VERY few instances the counties are split between markets. NY is one of the three or four counties to be split up.

The markets are redefined every so often.

See ya
Tony


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## Cyclone (Jul 1, 2002)

Is there a site on the Internet that can show Grade B contours?


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## chessmaster1010 (May 29, 2002)

PrinceLH said:


> ...Of course, they are eligible for National coverage but it would be nice to receive locals a little closer to their location.


If by "eligible for National coverage" you mean the NY, LA, Chicago, Denver, Atlanta distant networks, then the SHVIA also makes them eligible for any city's network stations (ABC, CBS, FOX, NBC).

The SHVIA says "white area" (not within Grade B signal area) subscribers are _eligilble_ for distant networks from *any* city. Dish only offers the above cities due to logistical issues. DirectTV only offers NY and LA.


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## PrinceLH (Feb 18, 2003)

Could they choose Burlington/Plattsburg if they wished?


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## Greg Bimson (May 5, 2003)

No, because Dish Network will not allow Burlington/Plattsburg to be chosen.


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## cj9788 (May 14, 2003)

I wish dish would offer Miami as a distant net. They used to but moved Miami to the spots.


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

Cyclone said:


> Is there a site on the Internet that can show Grade B contours?


http://www.ardman.net/


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## jrbdmb (Sep 5, 2002)

TNGTony said:


> http://www.ardman.net/


For Grade B info on a specific address, you can also take a look at

http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/stations.asp

This will shows all Grade B or better stations for your address.


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## PrinceLH (Feb 18, 2003)

Looking at the Grade B contour, it looks like Plattsburgh/Burlington is not that hard to receive over the air. Watertown is impossible! So, SHIVA is showing discriminationin this market. More stupidity, thanks to the NAB and their lobbiests in Washington.


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