# New HD?



## RobR7 (Jan 23, 2006)

I'm wondering if E* is done for now with new HD channels... Seems they have a comfortable lead and adding new stations won't have any benefit for them until D* starts rolling theirs out next year. 

It's not overly important, I guess I can learn to be patient in the meantime if it means they're working on the MPEG4 PQ and HD will stay or potentially get better.  

Do we know when D* will have new HD channels available? - I figure its when we'll likely see new HD channels from E* to try to keep an advantage or at least keep competitiveness... or any other leaked / insider info on a schedule for E* HD ?

Also, anyone know if E* is at at their bandwidth limit right now? Has anyone done the numbers... will they be able to compete with D*'s new capacity?


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## grooves12 (Oct 27, 2005)

Well, they SHOULD be getting the RSN's as Sports is a driver for a lot of early adopters... and DirecTV has that lead for now. Other than that there isn't a whole lot of additional content to add. InHD, MHD, Cinemax HD, and that is about it. Other than Cinemax, nothing really all that compelling.


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## Steve H (May 15, 2006)

I hope that they (Dish) will get ALL of their major markets serviced with the HD networks (all 4). Then they can start to add some of the "extras".


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## kmcnamara (Jan 30, 2004)

A&E HD would be nice (understanding that not everything is in HD).


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## Jolard (Feb 14, 2006)

This is an interesting topic. Of course we have all heard about the "100 channels of National HD" that Direct is supposed to be adding next year. Of course the argument is that this is actually just HD locals, but I have seen some places where they have said they will be adding lots more national HD channels. 

So what exactly are they going to add that Dish doesn't already have? There just aren't the HD channels out there at the time being. 

Now the problem of course is that it is a chicken and egg problem. Most Cable providers are already struggling to find bandwidth, and Sat providers are the same. So why create your brand new HD channel if no-one is going to be able to add it to their system?

If Direct does add that much capacity reserved for national channels, then that might be all that a lot of networks and channels need to get their HD versions up and running. I hope the competition spurs this kind of development, and then Dish will have to work hard to catch up. 

Now here is the kicker. How much more bandwidth does Dish have available for new channels? I know Direct is launching new sats, but I haven't heard about any upcoming sats for Dish. How much more bandwidth does Dish have? Do they have any new sats in the pipeline? They need to replace 129, so that is one right there, not to mention new sats in order to match Direct's offerings. 

What about MPEG4? Is that going to solve all the bandwidth problems?


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## Mikey (Oct 26, 2004)

Jolard said:


> ... Do they have any new sats in the pipeline? They need to replace 129, so that is one right there, not to mention new sats in order to match Direct's offerings. ...


Ciel-2 is scheduled to replace E5 at 129 somewhere toward the end of 2008.

http://dev.space.com/spacenews/satellitecomm/Ciel_031606.html


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## Scottthedott (Sep 1, 2006)

D* is taking channels down on Sundays during the football season because they don't have the bandwidth. Look at the artical at TVpredictions.com & you can see what I'm saying. I want HD programming on my ViP622, not rebates! E* is such a better choice.


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## RobR7 (Jan 23, 2006)

So a new E* sat by end of 2008? 

Does this mean they'll be in the same position D* is in now in '07/'08, playing catchup? 

Buying the Voom sat may have given them a temporary edge but I think by mid to late 2007 D*s offering is going to look good again and some of us will be thinking about going back. By then it'll be too late for E*... those who switched did it for the quantity of HD, and yes, there isn't that much available out there right now. So I think its even a better sign that full HD PQ will return at D* to lure customers back, at least until there are more channels to eat up the bandwidth again.

Also, cable companies can easily catch up if they wanted to (they never do unless they must), just get rid of all the analog. I also read somewhere that coax's theoretical throughput is 800Mbps, easy to network and of course the external infrastructure is already in place. Most FIOS (fiber) will be out and should clock in at 1Gb to the pole (doubt they splurged for 2Gbps). So everyone's bandwidth wise will be in pretty good shape by '08. 

Seems like E* needs an answer well before EOY 08.


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## Jolard (Feb 14, 2006)

> Seems like E* needs an answer well before EOY 08.


I agree. A lot of people are migrating to Dish right now because of the picture quality advantage over Direct, and the quantity of HD channels available. That advantage will supposedly disappear in 2007 with Direct's 100 national HD channels (although we will see if they really manage to do that).

If Direct actually pulls that off, then Dish will be back on the defensive, trying to keep their customers. This could be good for us who stay, maybe lower prices? but not good for Dish.

I am sure Charlie has something up his sleeve, but he hasn't shown his hand yet, so we will have to see. They have to be planning for the future, if they aren't they could be in trouble. They are still the smaller player, and if Direct has more HD sleection in 2007, and possibly (although not probably in my mind) full HD quality, then Dish will hemorage customers.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

This all seems like deja vu... Seems to me I remember the same kind of promises of heated competition from DirecTV this time last year... and it didn't happen.

From a business perspective, I again reiterate that the amount of customers who are that fickle to just switch to Dish this year and then want to switch back to DirecTV next year... they are not worth trying to keep because in another year they will be ready to switch back to Dish again anyway! Some customers keep switching back and forth no matter what the companies do.


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## Jolard (Feb 14, 2006)

> From a business perspective, I again reiterate that the amount of customers who are that fickle to just switch to Dish this year and then want to switch back to DirecTV next year. They are not worth trying to keep because in another year they will be ready to switch back to Dish again anyway!


I don't understand this. Honestly, why would ANYONE stay with one provider if they could get more for less on another provider.

In the past there was such a thing as brand loyalty, and maybe some people still have it. But why? The provider is not worthy of your loyalty, they are simply providing you a service. The only time I will go with a provider that is more expensive for less is when that provider is a local small mom and pop. Then I feel like I want to help them. Dish does not qualify.

If you can get the same service or better for a better price, then go to the better provider. It only makes sense, and is good for competition and the economy. Don't just stay with a provider out of misguided loyalty, they should fight to be the provider you choose.

A provider who decides to let all the "fickle" customers go, even when they are providing less for more, is a provider who will be filing for bankruptsy soon.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Jolard said:


> A provider who decides to let all the "fickle" customers go, even when they are providing less for more, is a provider who will be filing for bankruptsy soon.


You missed the point of my statement... Customers who are fickle or always out for the best deal, will always be fickle and out for the best deal so you can never make them happy since you will continue to have to escalate your offers. This year they want a free DVR, next year they will want another free DVR + $5 off their bill, the following year they will want all new equipment, and so forth.

Fickle customers continue down the escalating path like that... so you (as a company) are actually better off letting them go to the competitor for a marginally better deal... they will test out the "greener grass" for a while, then start demanding free things from them too! And eventually the fickle customer will come right back to you without you really having to do anything.

It's kind of like what they used to say about Barry Sanders... you waste your time chasing him around the field because he is too fast and quick for you... but if you pick a position and wait, eventually he will twist and turn and come back your way and then you might have a chance of tackling him


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## robert koerner (Aug 20, 2005)

Brand Loyalty does not exist, nor has it ever.

It is simply a heuristic for problem solving, reducing risk.

In essence, I don't know if A is better than B. I bought B in the past, and was satisfied/happy with it. So, I will buy B again (cause I'm afraid I might not be satisfied with A; it takes too much time to find out what the difference is between A and B; if I find out what the difference is between A and B, I won't comprehend it).

What customers are loyal to, is getting the most benefits for their money.

There isn't a difference between a customer who always chooses A over B, and a customer who will never choose B again. Both are using the same method for problem solving.

If you are interested in consumer behavior, you might find a great article in the magazine "Nature", Prospect Theory, by Treversky and Khanman, on line. With simplistic elegancy they prove consumers avoid risk more than they peruse gain.

Googling "switching costs" might yield a wealth of articles illuminating another aspect what people mistakenly fold into Brand Loyalty.

If only Adam Smith had looked more closely at "free-market" economies. He would have seen the "invisible hand", was "just" and extention of a fickle consumer.

Bob


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## Jolard (Feb 14, 2006)

> Customers who are fickle or always out for the best deal, will always be fickle and out for the best deal so you can never make them happy since you will continue to have to escalate your offers.


I don't agree, but that is OK 

"Fickle" customers as you describe them will simply gravitate to the best deal at the lowest price. They may want better deals each year as you describe, but they aren't going to leave if they don't get them. The only way they will leave is if another provider offers a better deal at a better price. If you remain the best deal, then you will retain the fickle customers.

Dish will have a problem, if (and the if is a big IF) Direct starts having 100 national channels, and provides it for a reasonable price. All else being equal (they get the bugs in their DVR sorted out, picture quality improves) then many Dish customers will move because Direct has the best deal. Why wouldn't anyone move?

You will end up with those who don't keep up with the packages and changes, those who are too lazy to change, and those who hate Direct for some reason staying with Dish. Most everyone else will change.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Jolard said:


> I don't agree, but that is OK
> 
> "Fickle" customers as you describe them will simply gravitate to the best deal at the lowest price. They may want better deals each year as you describe, but they aren't going to leave if they don't get them. The only way they will leave is if another provider offers a better deal at a better price. If you remain the best deal, then you will retain the fickle customers.


That is pretty much the definition of "fickle"... you are saying the same thing, just in a different way. They always want to get the best deal and will leave if they think something else is better... then they will do the same on the new service.

So as a business, there's only so much you can offer before it becomes pointless to try and keep that kind of customer. I'm not saying customers are wrong for seeking the best deals. Go for it!

I'm just saying that a business has diminishing returns by trying each year to retain a customer they already have by offering better and better deals as if they are trying to get a new customer... and sometimes it is better to just let the fickle one go because they will come back to you once the competitor reaches the same point of diminishing return.

This is why you don't see fast food places, for instance, trying to make you be a regular customer and never eat anywhere else... it would cost them too much... so they accept that you will stray but then come back later for more.


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

Brand Loyalty exists... Try and get a Die hard Repulican or Democrat to switch parties or even vote for the other party once in a while. 

I don't get that myself but it exists.

Staying put is also a way to avoid disruption and having to learn new things.

Brand loyalty is composed of many things, in some cases it can just be avoidance of change. When the closed the A & P I changed to Acme. The A & P was on the way home the Acme is 5 minutes out of the way. I both cases once I learn where things are then I can maximise my efficiency. IOWs get in and out of the store quicker. I can't be bothered to run all over for what's on sale this week. 
Lets see go west to Shoprite, then go South to Pathmark and then East to Acme, Then north up the hill to A & P.

Not worth it, my time has more value then saving a few cents here and there.

We get these can you beat this price types here. They come in waving a printout of something off of the internet. Conveniently forgetting S&H prices. We say no, 1/2 the time they buy anyway, the Net site is OOS or they need it now. We had one guy wanted to buy a USB cable for $2 same as on the website. 1 cable, they'll sell for $2 including S&H? Not likely.

Moving on to Charlie. I'm sure he has something up his sleeve and it will stay there. Why forewarn the competition, cable or DirecTV until needed. Then they have to react to his move with no foreknowledge and planning.
Common business sense. And I'm sure DirecTV doesn't really want to telegraph its moves to Charlie so he can preplan a response.

100 HD National channels? Where? Is Fox planning to start 90 new HD networks?


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## Guitar1969 (Oct 19, 2006)

RobR7 said:


> I'm wondering if E* is done for now with new HD channels... Seems they have a comfortable lead and adding new stations won't have any benefit for them until D* starts rolling theirs out next year.
> 
> It's not overly important, I guess I can learn to be patient in the meantime if it means they're working on the MPEG4 PQ and HD will stay or potentially get better.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure this is true. At least according to this source D is ahead of Dish in terms of HD:

www . skyreport. com ( sorry for this, I can't post links since I'm new)

Don't come after me, I'm just the messenger. I am currently a DTV subscriber(Non-HD DVR), but was a previous Dish subscriber from back when they began in the mid 90's until Dish tried to screw me on upgrading to a DVR(They are just like the cell companies - never want to take care of long time existing customers, its all about the new subscribers). I now have an HD Plasma so I need to upgrade my DVR to HD, but not impressed with the options for both DTV and Dish right now. DTVs new HR-20 is riddled with bugs(since they ditched Tivo) so it is not ready from prime time, and I have not heard much about Dishs HD DVR offering. I currently have a DTV R10(Which is a Tivo Directv) and it works great, it just isn't HD. So I can go back to Dish as a new subscriber - What's the latest Dish HD DVR or are they working on anything new that I might want to wait for. I have to agree, for standard program, Dish seemed to have a better picture from my past experience, but don't know if this translates over to HD as well.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

That quoted message doesn't say anything about where Dish is in relation to DirecTV in regards to HD. So not sure where you are reading into things there.

It is simply a fact, not debatable, that Dish has more different HD channels than DirecTV. Now DirecTV has more HD locals in some areas than Dish does, so if you are in such a market that would be a vote-swing one way or the other.

In terms of PQ, it seems to be a matter of opinion for many people. I haven't had DirecTV HD so I can't compare... but others who have compared say Dish is at worst the same as DirecTV and at best much sharper... depending on the channels compared of course.


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