# PLEASE RESPOND: OTA channels incorrect mapping / switching



## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Sorry for the confusing title on this one.

There have been several reports about OTA channels that don't show up on the correct channel number (ie, CBS showing up on the ABC channel), and several reports of timers firing on the correct station but the recording is of a program on another station.

If you have seen this happen, please report the actual channel numbers and the PSIP mapped channel numbers of the stations that got switched around, and a list of your other channels around (both actual and PSIP) the affected channels. 

I believe I now know what's causing this, and want to confirm.


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

No problems here, Mark. They either show up on the correct ATSC channel number or the branded NTSC channel number depending on the station's choice.


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

Here is what happened to me once:

Channel 5, KPIX, Digital 29, mapped as channel 9, KQED, digital 30.

Mine are spaced one channel apart (29, 30), is that consistent with everyone??


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

If my theory is correct, that will be consistent with everyone.


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## Big D (Aug 19, 2002)

Mine where not just 1 channel # apart as I remember. Once I wanted channel 003.01 (003.01 mapped, actual channel #35) and what recorded was 010.01 (channel 61). Channel 006.01 (channel 53) lies between those two. As I reported when they happened, the PVR screen shows the correct channel info, however when I play it back, it was the different channel. Not sure we are talking the same issue. I wish I could remember the details for sure, however I am somewhat sure it always worked that way. I have seen it maybe 4 or 5 times.


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## lapplegate (Jan 17, 2003)

Ok on mine, so far.


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## TV Director (Feb 14, 2004)

...Mark, when it happened to me. The NBC affiliate (WKYC Ch.3/003.01) swapped places with the ABC affiliate (WEWS ch.5/005.01). The signals are "side by side" with no other stations in between. Hope this helps.


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## sgt940 (Jan 9, 2004)

Mark Lamutt said:


> Sorry for the confusing title on this one.
> 
> There have been several reports about OTA channels that don't show up on the correct channel number (ie, CBS showing up on the ABC channel), and several reports of timers firing on the correct station but the recording is of a program on another station.
> 
> ...


Mark the last time this happened to me it was local channel 027-01 coming in on 004-01. 4 is broadcast on 35 and 27 is broadcast 36 so the actually broacast channels were one apart.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Thanks guys, and please keep them coming from anyone else that has had this happen. Your reponses (all but one so far) are confirming my theory, and what I talked about with the lead software guy from Eldon last night.


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## Big D (Aug 19, 2002)

Mark Lamutt said:


> Your reponses (all but one so far) are confirming my theory,


Mark, please take my input with a grain of salt as I am relying on my memory and it was some time ago, so... 

If it happens again, I will make sure I write down the channels involved.


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## cclement (Mar 22, 2004)

Mark, my PBS channel 002-01 (digital 34) took over my ABC channel 005-01 (digital 50). After 2 days of this I cleared the channels, re-scanned and re-booted, been fine for the last 2 days.


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

cclement said:


> Mark, my PBS channel 002-01 (digital 34) took over my ABC channel 005-01 (digital 50). After 2 days of this I cleared the channels, re-scanned and re-booted, been fine for the last 2 days.


Are there any channels airing in your area between 35 and 50??


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## guruka (Dec 27, 2003)

Mark - My local FOX 2 (ATSC 27-1) swapped with my CBS 13 (ATSC 16-1.)

I deleted both and re-added manually and they have been stable so far except that local FOX is off the air with xmitter problems for the past few days.

.....G


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

cclement - as jsanders asked, are there any channels between 35 and 50 in your area?

G - same question for you...are there channels between 16 and 27 (if those are the actual channel freqencies as opposed to remapped channel numbers)?


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## cclement (Mar 22, 2004)

Mark Lamutt said:


> cclement - as jsanders asked, are there any channels between 35 and 50 in your area?


Mark, there are 3 channels between 35 and 50. 35 (011.1), 40 (41.1) and 44 (45.1 and 45.2- which I can not view and haven't been able to since 180 software update.)

I hope this helps!


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

cclement said:


> Mark, there are 3 channels between 35 and 50. 35 (011.1), 40 (41.1) and 44 (45.1 and 45.2- which I can not view and haven't been able to since 180 software update.)


Was 40 viewable at the time? You never know, sometimes channels need to be re-added.


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## cclement (Mar 22, 2004)

jsanders said:


> Was 40 viewable at the time? You never know, sometimes channels need to be re-added.


I'll be honest with you, I'm not sure, it's our local PAX station and I watched it once about 3 months ago to see if it came in and haven't gone back since to watch it. I'll check tonight when I get home and I'll post then.


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

cclement said:


> I'll be honest with you, I'm not sure, it's our local PAX station and I watched it once about 3 months ago to see if it came in. I'll check tonight when I get home and I'll post then.


Okay, that sounds cool. I realize the aforementioned question is kind of grasping at straws, however, sometimes you can't leave any stone un-turned.


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## guruka (Dec 27, 2003)

Mark Lamutt said:


> G - same question for you...are there channels between 16 and 27 (if those are the actual channel freqencies as opposed to remapped channel numbers)?


Yah, those are the ATSC channels (not remapped) and yes, there are two channels in between the ones that swapped.

KRQE (CBS) - 16
KOAT (ABC) - 21
KOB (NBC) - 26
KASA (FOX) - 27

.....G


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## cclement (Mar 22, 2004)

jsanders said:


> Was 40 viewable at the time? You never know, sometimes channels need to be re-added.


40 and all of it's sub-stations are viewable now. I still can not receive 44 (not found). I tried to do what I did last Saturday when the PBS channels took over the ABC spot, but I couldn't reproduce it tonight.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Thanks for the info everyone. I think that the majority of cases proves my theory, and it will now be reported.


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## wfhuber (Oct 6, 2002)

Mark and all. Not sure if this is the same concern but I cannot receive local digital channel 5 (cbs). It's transmitted on channel 47 and shows a signal strength of 113 but cannot be saved and won't show up in the guide. It worked fine untill about a week ago. All other digital channels work fine. 
I have deleted it and tried to reenter it manually(as channel 47 and it shows in the guide but is only a black screen with no audio) but although it shows a strong signal it won't "save". Thanks-Bill


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## Jason (Aug 8, 2002)

wfhuber said:


> Mark and all. Not sure if this is the same concern but I cannot receive local digital channel 5 (cbs). It's transmitted on channel 47 and shows a signal strength of 113 but cannot be saved and won't show up in the guide. It worked fine untill about a week ago. All other digital channels work fine.
> I have deleted it and tried to reenter it manually(as channel 47 and it shows in the guide but is only a black screen with no audio) but although it shows a strong signal it won't "save". Thanks-Bill


I also have this problem on my local WB station. My analog WB is channel 20. The HD WB channel is 21-1. However, when I scan for channels only 20-1 comes up. When I manually try to add 21-1 it shows a strong signal, yet it won't save and show up in the guide. Is there anyway to manually record this channel? I believe it has to be shown in the guide, otherwise I cannot set up a manual timer. Any fix for this?


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## deweybrunner (Feb 8, 2004)

Jason, the on.y place locals can be put in guide is in all channels, and sub's. This is where they should show up. If you want to record one you must go to "timers'.Create" then shift over to channels. I key in "9999" which takes me next to locals. Scroll to the station you want, click, set times etc. Hopefully we will again be able to add locals to our favorite list, then all will be easier. To get to the local channels I just key in the actual number of the station(not hd Number) ie channel 13 might be 13-1however I key in 013 to find the station. CBS is channel 10, however the hd number is 24-1. I key in, to find the station, 010. etc. Hopefully all will be better this month.


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## Jason (Aug 8, 2002)

deweybrunner said:


> Jason, the on.y place locals can be put in guide is in all channels, and sub's. This is where they should show up. If you want to record one you must go to "timers'.Create" then shift over to channels. I key in "9999" which takes me next to locals. Scroll to the station you want, click, set times etc. Hopefully we will again be able to add locals to our favorite list, then all will be easier. To get to the local channels I just key in the actual number of the station(not hd Number) ie channel 13 might be 13-1however I key in 013 to find the station. CBS is channel 10, however the hd number is 24-1. I key in, to find the station, 010. etc. Hopefully all will be better this month.


My problem is that when I key in 020, it comes up with 20-1 which is believe is a WB digital channel, however it is not in HD. I need to find some way to get to 21-1 which is the WB HD channel in my area. Any other thoughts?


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## Slordak (Dec 17, 2003)

I don't think you understand the "channel re-mapping" which takes place. Most digital channels get mapped to their analog equivalents. When you do a scan for digital channels, and the 921 finds a live digital channel, it looks at the signal to determine the channel name, mapping, etc. Then it adds it to your list of channels using the mapped number. In your case, this causes 21 to be added as 20-1.

When you tune channel 20-1, you are actually watching channel 21. Hence, you're already tuned to the channel you want to be tuned to. Whether or not they are actually showing HD content is a different issue. Most channels don't show HD programming except during prime time.


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

Jason said:


> My problem is that when I key in 020, it comes up with 20-1 which is believe is a WB digital channel, however it is not in HD. I need to find some way to get to 21-1 which is the WB HD channel in my area. Any other thoughts?


If channel 20 is WB digital, then there would be no channel 21 for WB-HD. There can be a 020-1, 020-2, 020-3, etc.. My local PBS station has five sub channels right now! Are you sure you are watching WB when they are showing an HD program in your area??

You can hit the browse button on your remote (button to the right of the select button). This brings up the channel banner. You can scroll up and down, and go through the sub channels.


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## Jason (Aug 8, 2002)

Slordak said:


> I don't think you understand the "channel re-mapping" which takes place. Most digital channels get mapped to their analog equivalents. When you do a scan for digital channels, and the 921 finds a live digital channel, it looks at the signal to determine the channel name, mapping, etc. Then it adds it to your list of channels using the mapped number. In your case, this causes 21 to be added as 20-1.
> 
> When you tune channel 20-1, you are actually watching channel 21. Hence, you're already tuned to the channel you want to be tuned to. Whether or not they are actually showing HD content is a different issue. Most channels don't show HD programming except during prime time.


Is this a bug in the 921 causing it to mislabel OTA channels or is it supposed to rename the channels to the analog equivalents? If this is a bug, is it something that is going to be fixed?

If a program on one of these OTA digital channels is not in HD, what is it broadcast in? The picture still looks better than DVD quality to me. Is a digital channel broadcast in 480p and then upconverted to 1080i if I have my 921 set to that?


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

The PSIP remapping is normal operation, not a bug. It's how the local station is choosing to broadcast. 

If the program being broadcast is not in HD, then it is being upconverted from the SD feed. So, the transmission is 1080i or 720p, but the program is not.

If the program is broadcast in 480p, and you have your 921 set to output 1080i, then the 480p program is upconverted to 1080i by the 921.


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## Jason (Aug 8, 2002)

Mark Lamutt said:


> If the program being broadcast is not in HD, then it is being upconverted from the SD feed. So, the transmission is 1080i or 720p, but the program is not.
> 
> If the program is broadcast in 480p, and you have your 921 set to output 1080i, then the 480p program is upconverted to 1080i by the 921.


Are the OTA digital channels broadcasting in SD (480i) if a particular show is not broadcast in HD? I thought that the OTA digital channels were at least 480p.

The reason I assume this is because all OTA channels look 500% better than SD channels off the satellite. Some OTA that is not HD even looks as good as upconverted HD being shown on channels in the HD pack such as TNT-HD.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

There are some OTA digital stations broadcasting 480i. The new standard (ATSC) provides for digital transmission, not HD transmission. 480i is part of the standard, and is an acceptable format under the standard.



> Some OTA that is not HD even looks as good as upconverted HD being shown on channels in the HD pack such as TNT-HD.


That's exactly what I'm saying - non-HD OTA is being upconverted by the station and broadcast at whatever resolution they broadcast at, just like non-HD is upconverted by TNT for broadcast on their TNT-HD channel.


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