# Detroit Lions have the best record in football!



## Coca Cola Kid

Detroit Lions are 5-0 with a better division record than the "Superbowl Champion" Packers, meaning they're the best team in the NFL! Where's all the Detroit haters now?


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## Tom Robertson

Coca Cola Kid said:


> Detroit Lions are 5-0 with a better division record than the "Superbowl Champion" Packers, meaning they're the best team in the NFL! Where's all the Detroit haters now?


Too early to start using the divisional tiebreakers. 

Besides, the Packers had a 5-0 record before the Lions did, so they are the best!


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## Coca Cola Kid

Tom Robertson said:


> Too early to start using the divisional tiebreakers.
> 
> Besides, the Packers had a 5-0 record before the Lions did, so they are the best!


See my avatar.


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## Tom Robertson

Coca Cola Kid said:


> See my avatar.


See my reality.


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## Coca Cola Kid

Tom Robertson said:


> See my reality.


Reality my ass. You must have eaten some expired cheese, you're delusional if you think the Packers or anyone else can beat the Lions this year. 19-0, Lions Superbowl XLVI Champions.


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## Laxguy

Coca Cola Kid said:


> Detroit Lions are 5-0 with a better division record than the "Superbowl Champion" Packers, meaning they're the best team in the NFL! Where's all the Detroit haters now?


A 5-0 record is impressive, but does not mean "best team", unless the season is five games, and everyone else has at least one loss.

Where are the Detroit haters? I really haven't seen many to begin with. I'm happy the Lions are back in the hunt.


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## Drucifer

Coca Cola Kid said:


> Detroit Lions are 5-0 with a better division record than the "Superbowl Champion" Packers, meaning they're the best team in the NFL! Where's all the Detroit haters now?


They're a year early. The world ends next December.


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## Tom Robertson

Drucifer said:


> They're a year early. The world ends next December.


This is the warm up for Da Cubs and Da Bears next year...


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## Coca Cola Kid

Laxguy said:


> A 5-0 record is impressive, but does not mean "best team", unless the season is five games, and everyone else has at least one loss.
> 
> Where are the Detroit haters? I really haven't seen many to begin with. I'm happy the Lions are back in the hunt.


Lions also have the highest net points (Points scored minus points allowed), and the NFL's longest active regular season winning streak (going back to last year).


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## Tom Robertson

Coca Cola Kid said:


> Lions also have the highest net points (Points scored minus points allowed), and the NFL's longest active regular season winning streak (going back to last year).


And just who has the longest active winning streak (going back to last year?) :lol:


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## Stewart Vernon

Actually... it is a good question... "Where are the Lion haters now?"

Where have they ever been?

I've been watching football mostly since 1985... and I can't think of a time when Detroit was hated in all that time. I remember when they were famous for starting slow, coach about to be fired, then win a bunch in a row to make the playoffs and all was safe for another year! But nobody hated them.

Everybody loved Barry Sanders... nobody wanted to try and tackle him, though 

Then they became the lovable losers... most people were NOT rooting for Detroit to go 0-16 a few years back. Even their most hated rivals weren't rooting for that.

Honestly. I can't think of a time in recent memory where there were any Detroit haters.

There were some folks being realistic... when they were making questionable draft picks and other decisions... but I wouldn't call that hating, since it was proving out on the field.

I also know a lot of people have really been hoping they would take off this year... if they could stay healthy, a lot of people were looking forward to seeing how good they can be.

Personally, I'm hoping they and Green Bay run the table up to Thanksgiving. How cool would that be... After years of futility, and dreading the Thanksgiving game that meant nothing... to have it be for first place in the division AND to stay undefeated most of the way through the season.

As much as I kind of like Green Bay... Detroit is actually doing the same thing as Green Bay... winning the right way with good people that I can't think of anything bad to say about... so IF the 0-16 record-holding Lions could go 16-0, I think that would be pretty cool.

BUT... I feel like this weekend will tell the tale. IF they make it this weekend, I'm thinking they have a good shot at undefeated (with a possible season split with Green Bay since the Packers are very good)...

I think the Packers are the clear #1 team thus far... and yeah, it's only 5 games... BUT it's the same team (mostly) that won the Super Bowl + a lot of people back who were out last season injured... so I give Green Bay the benefit of the doubt until they lose.

I wouldn't be surprised, though, if at the end of the season Detroit is a close 2nd to Green Bay.


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## Coca Cola Kid

Tom Robertson said:


> And just who has the longest active winning streak (going back to last year?) :lol:


Yeah but our winning streak started by beating the Packers. :lol:

Packers should quit wasting everyone's time and just send the Lombardi Trophy directly to 222 Republic Drive, Allen Park, MI 48101.


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## Brandon428

I hate the Packers but I have to say they are definitely the best team in the league right now. I still think the Saints can beat them though. The turn over and the lucky kick return killed us in that first game and we were still only 1 yard and a 2pt conversion from tying at the last second also we didn't have Will Smith in either (3 game suspension). I'm confident if we meet again the Saints will win.


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## hdtvfan0001

Coca Cola Kid said:


> *Yeah but our winning streak started by beating the Packers*. :lol:
> 
> Packers should quit wasting everyone's time and just send the Lombardi Trophy directly to 222 Republic Drive, Allen, Park, MI 48101.


That's the way their streak will end too. 

The trophy is already in its 2010 & 2011 location...thing of all the shipping fees the NFL will save.


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## BosFan

Hmmmm, let me tell you about best records, don't mean a thing till you got that ring! :nono:
Even in baseball, where are the two teams with the best records this year? Not in the playoffs.
Both teams need to lose one or two to make them hungrier for the prize.

And for the sake of this conversation of current undefeateds - GO PACK GO! (they are my 2nd fav team after all)


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## tenpins

A great story now. For years friends never understood why I never saw the Lions as winners. The last time they were 5- 0 winners, I was all of 3 months old. Bill Ford Sr. and Russ Thomas too many nightmares to forget. Glad to see the Lions winning, Enjoy the season and the ride. I assume that FOX is glad to have a meaningful Thanksgiving game between the Packers and Lions.


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## woj027

November 24th 2011 10-0 vs 10-0 ???? Now that would be a great match up.


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## Coca Cola Kid

woj027 said:


> November 24th 2011 10-0 vs 10-0 ???? Now that would be a great match up.


Lions will be 10-0. Cheeseheads will be 5-5.


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## woj027

Coca Cola Kid said:


> Lions will be 10-0. Cheeseheads will be 5-5.


wouldn't you rather have it as 10-0 vs 10-0? Then only one should be undefeated afterwards? showing your (Detroit Lions) true prowess?


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## Coca Cola Kid

woj027 said:


> wouldn't you rather have it as 10-0 vs 10-0? Then only one should be undefeated afterwards? showing your (Detroit Lions) true prowess?


It'd be nice but Packers aren't that good, they won't win another game this year.


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## woj027

Coca Cola Kid said:


> It'd be nice but Packers aren't that good, they won't win another game this year.


Ok, I'd say a 10-0 vs 10-0 is more likely than the Packers not winning another game this year.

btw

I'm a Dolphin Fan and expect them to win every game they play the rest of the season too.


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## hdtvfan0001

Coca Cola Kid said:


> It'd be nice but Packers aren't that good, they won't win another game this year.


!rolling

You must be confusing the Packers with the Tigers... 

The Packers will be 7-0 at their bye week.


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## Earl Bonovich

Sorry... as much as I hate to give props to Green Bay, they by far right now are the best team in the league.

Didn't the Lions have to come back against the Vikings (Which are one of the worst teams in the league)... late in the game?

Didn't they need any extra QB to help them come back against Dallas ?

And as HORRID as the Bears played on Monday night... They need two completely blown defense plays (the two monster TD's) and another (the 50 yard run)... so solidify the game? Heck with out the last one... the horrible Bears right now, were still in that game.

So while the Lions are much much improved then they were.... Week 6 is just starting... So much left. As this league has shown, avoidance of Injury is key to the season. If the QB or Megatron go down, the Lions come way back to the middle of the pack.

(Same is true if Green Bay looses Rogers)


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## Coca Cola Kid

hdtvfan0001 said:


> !rolling
> 
> You must be confusing the Packers with the Tigers...
> 
> The Packers will be 7-0 at their bye week.


Umm ALCS, hello???????

I noticed the "S.E. U.S." team (Braves) didn't even make the playoffs this year...


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## Coca Cola Kid

Earl Bonovich said:


> Sorry... as much as I hate to give props to Green Bay, they by far right now are the best team in the league.
> 
> Didn't the Lions have to come back against the Vikings (Which are one of the worst teams in the league)... late in the game?
> 
> Didn't they need any extra QB to help them come back against Dallas ?
> 
> And as HORRID as the Bears played on Monday night... They need two completely blown defense plays (the two monster TD's) and another (the 50 yard run)... so solidify the game? Heck with out the last one... the horrible Bears right now, were still in that game.
> 
> So while the Lions are much much improved then they were.... Week 6 is just starting... So much left. As this league has shown, avoidance of Injury is key to the season. If the QB or Megatron go down, the Lions come way back to the middle of the pack.
> 
> (Same is true if Green Bay looses Rogers)


Bears had 9 false starts :lol: Felt like I was watching a Seahawks home game.


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## sigma1914

Coca Cola Kid said:


> It'd be nice but Packers aren't that good, they won't win another game this year.


You're delusional if you really think that. I'm definitely not a Packers fan, but they're the best team without a doubt. They're offense can't be stopped and Rodgers shreds every team. Teams can't run on them. They're passing defense is very weak, but they make plays when needed.

Also, there's no Lions haters and there never has been. A team needs to be successful to be hated...the Lions have never even been to a SB. They haven't had a plus .500 season since 2000. :lol: Maybe they had haters in the 50s when they actually won.

I'm happy for the Lions and before the season I said they're this year surprise team who'll give GB a serious run for the North.


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## RACJ2

I like to see teams like the Lions rise from the ashes, but I wouldn't get over confident yet. My Bills were 4-0 in 2008 and ended the season at 7-9. For what its worth, here is how ESPN see it [link].

Here is the top 10:


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## Earl Bonovich

Coca Cola Kid said:


> Bears had 9 false starts :lol: Felt like I was watching a Seahawks home game.


Exactly...

And without two hugh defensive gafs.... the Bears may have actually won that game.


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## chevyguy559

Watch out for my Niners this Sunday


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## SAC-CA-HT

chevyguy559 said:


> Watch out for my Niners this Sunday


Yep...that's what I was going to say. If it wasn't for the OT loss to the Cowgirls the Niners would be 5-0 as well. However I'm not holding my breath. But it beats what they were last year and last game they looked VERY sharp. I think if they play that same game vs the Lions it will be a good match up. Lions look good this year and it's nice to see a team that has been in the dumps for so long looking good after 5 games. There is a lot of season left though guys.

Lets Go Niners!!!! And F the Raiders!!!


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## hdtvfan0001

Coca Cola Kid said:


> Umm ALCS, hello???????


Yeah...not going so great huh? 


> I noticed the "S.E. U.S." team (Braves) didn't even make the playoffs this year...


Nor did they deserve to...and also good I don't much care for them anyway.

Three words:
Fear The Beer.

Five More words:
Behold The Power of Cheese.


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## Stewart Vernon

BosFan said:


> Hmmmm, let me tell you about best records, don't mean a thing till you got that ring! :nono:


Yeah... the Patriots still hate having that 18-1 season, where the 1 loss was the Super Bowl... Percentage-wise the best season since the undefeated Dolphins' Super Bowl season... but no trophy for the Patriots.

IF you ask them... they would much rather the year they had 5 losses but won the Super Bowl than the one they went 16-0 and then lost the championship.


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## Laxguy

"chevyguy559" said:


> Watch out for my Niners this Sunday


YOUR Niners?? Yours?? 

I'm with ya!


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## dsw2112

I do a lot of business in MI, and especially Detroit. I don't know anyone up there who thinks the Lions are going undefeated this year. All the best to them, but it will be quite humorous to review the OP's posts at season's end :lol:


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## spartanstew

Well, I've been a Lion's fan my whole life and am extremely happy to see them doing well. That being said, I'm also a realist and still think the Packers have a better team right now. That, of course, could change.


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## joshjr

Tom Robertson said:


> See my reality.


Tom I would of said see our trophy lol.


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## Game Fan

Coca Cola Kid said:


> Reality my ass. You must have eaten some expired cheese, you're delusional if you think the Packers or anyone else can beat the Lions this year. 19-0, Lions Superbowl XLVI Champions.


I'm glad you finally have something to cheer and brag about. All my family from Detroit and the downriver area are ecstatic. I think it may be a bit of "irrational exuberance" though. Time will tell, as it always does.


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## joshjr

Brandon428 said:


> I hate the Packers but I have to say they are definitely the best team in the league right now. I still think the Saints can beat them though. The turn over and the lucky kick return killed us in that first game and we were still only 1 yard and a 2pt conversion from tying at the last second also we didn't have Will Smith in either (3 game suspension). I'm confident if we meet again the Saints will win.


Im glad you are so confident. I am not as confident as you though. Even though I think the Saints are a pretty good team this year I do not think they are good enough to get passed Green Bay. If Green Bay's offense goes downhill a little then I think you got a shot. As long as they still maintain a high powered offense I dont really see the Saints winning.


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## joshjr

Earl Bonovich said:


> Sorry... as much as I hate to give props to Green Bay, they by far right now are the best team in the league.
> 
> *Didn't the Lions have to come back against the Vikings (Which are one of the worst teams in the league)... late in the game?*
> Didn't they need any extra QB to help them come back against Dallas ?
> 
> And as HORRID as the Bears played on Monday night... They need two completely blown defense plays (the two monster TD's) and another (the 50 yard run)... so solidify the game? Heck with out the last one... the horrible Bears right now, were still in that game.
> 
> So while the Lions are much much improved then they were.... Week 6 is just starting... So much left. As this league has shown, avoidance of Injury is key to the season. If the QB or Megatron go down, the Lions come way back to the middle of the pack.
> 
> (Same is true if Green Bay looses Rogers)


Exactly what I was thinking. I like Detroit this year. I think they really seem to gel together well this year. I watch their game pretty much every week even though I am a Colts fan. That being said they can not continue to come from behind and think they can realistically win every game.


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## chevyguy559

Laxguy said:


> YOUR Niners?? Yours??
> 
> I'm with ya!


Haha OUR Niners  I'm super happy with the way we've been playing. Harbaugh is really making Smith look like a pretty good QB...we've got a tough 5 or 6 games ahead of us....we'll see what happens!


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## Laxguy

chevyguy559 said:


> Haha OUR Niners  I'm super happy with the way we've been playing. Harbaugh is really making Smith look like a pretty good QB...we've got a tough 5 or 6 games ahead of us....we'll see what happens!


Oh, yeah. At least it's not run-run-pass-punt all the time! And bless that front line.


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## Tom Robertson

Stewart Vernon said:


> Actually... it is a good question... "Where are the Lion haters now?"
> 
> Where have they ever been?
> 
> I've been watching football mostly since 1985... and I can't think of a time when Detroit was hated in all that time. I remember when they were famous for starting slow, coach about to be fired, then win a bunch in a row to make the playoffs and all was safe for another year! But nobody hated them.
> 
> Everybody loved Barry Sanders... nobody wanted to try and tackle him, though
> 
> Then they became the lovable losers... most people were NOT rooting for Detroit to go 0-16 a few years back. Even their most hated rivals weren't rooting for that.
> ...


I think your analysis of the Lions completely correct. The Lions have typically been a class act, even though poor Matt Millen was definitely not the man for the job. (And I think he was a better TV dude before his time with the Lions.)

Earl, I think the Packers are still a good team without Rodgers. Not nearly as good, of course, but Flynn is coming along very nicely. Ted Thompson has some thinking to do about his contract and soon. 

Cheers,
Tom


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## Sharkie_Fan

Coca Cola Kid said:


> Reality my ass. You must have eaten some expired cheese, you're delusional if you think the Packers or anyone else can beat the Lions this year. 19-0, Lions Superbowl XLVI Champions.


Come again?

Not to rub it in... (OK, maybe just a little )

I believe my 49ers just pulled off the "upset" that you said no one in the NFL could. I'd say that's bad news for the Lions, because the Packers (the 6-0 Packers. Oh, so much for that "best record in the NFL" for the Lions) are a hell of a lot better than my 49ers (who are a hell of a lot better than I thought they'd be this year!)


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## Stewart Vernon

I might argue that in some ways the Lions and 49ers are similar teams... Young players trying to grow into their skills...

I can probably name more talented players on the Lions than the 49ers... but that doesn't mean the 49ers don't have some good players.

I'd say the coaches are a big part of getting things going in the right direction at both of these places.

I am kind of surprised, though, that the Lions lost today... not that I think poorly of the 49ers, but I didn't see this as the week the Lions would stumble because I figured they would be prepared and the 49ers wouldn't surprise them.


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## Laxguy

Well, I wasn't going to crow, *or even mention the win*over the formerly best team in football, but it's already been broached.

In a big sense, a pretty poor game for both teams. Waaaaay too much officiating. The head guy seemed positively pissed off at SF- here I'm not talking about the quantity or quality of the calls against the Niners, but the body language of the white cap. Over the top. If a neutral party looks at this, I'd love to have his -or her- opinion.


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## Tom Robertson

Coca Cola Kid said:


> Reality my ass. You must have eaten some expired cheese, you're delusional if you think the Packers or anyone else can beat the Lions this year. 19-0, Lions Superbowl XLVI Champions.


Time to reiterate:


Tom Robertson said:


> See my reality.




Cheers,
Tom


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## Sharkie_Fan

Stewart Vernon said:


> I might argue that in some ways the Lions and 49ers are similar teams... Young players trying to grow into their skills...
> 
> I can probably name more talented players on the Lions than the 49ers... but that doesn't mean the 49ers don't have some good players.
> 
> I'd say the coaches are a big part of getting things going in the right direction at both of these places.
> 
> I am kind of surprised, though, that the Lions lost today... not that I think poorly of the 49ers, but I didn't see this as the week the Lions would stumble because I figured they would be prepared and the 49ers wouldn't surprise them.


Truthfully, I think you're right in your evaluation of the Lions. I actually like the Lions, but I couldn't resist a little ribbing aimed at the OP (all in good fun, of course). The Lions are good, but I don't see them getting past the Packers this year. Next year, I think, will be the year for them to make a run @ the Pack.

I didn't like the 49ers chances this week. Lets face it - 49ers need to run to be successful, and the Lions D-Line is pretty good. And I think the advantage goes to the Lions receivers over the 49ers secondary, as well.

I like the 49ers, but I didn't think that we could see this sort of improvement in such a short amount of time - with no training camp, even. It's been a fun year, so far. It's been a long time with nothing to cheer about for NFL fans in the Bay Area!


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## Scott Kocourek

:icon_da: 

Today was a good day, the Packers are "back" in first place.


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## Sharkie_Fan

Laxguy said:


> Well, I wasn't going to crow, *or even mention the win*over the formerly best team in football, but it's already been broached.
> 
> In a big sense, a pretty poor game for both teams. Waaaaay too much officiating. The head guy seemed positively pissed off at SF- here I'm not talking about the quantity or quality of the calls against the Niners, but the body language of the white cap. Over the top. If a neutral party looks at this, I'd love to have his -or her- opinion.


I couldn't resist bringing up the win.  And just a _little_ crowing. 

I didn't notice the Ref's attitude towards the 49ers... but you're right - pretty poor game. I thought there were a number of calls against both teams that were questionable. It's hard for either team to get anything going when the officials are so involved.


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## Scott Kocourek

"Coca Cola Kid" said:


> Detroit Lions are 5-0 with a better division record than the "Superbowl Champion" Packers, meaning they're the best team in the NFL! Where's all the Detroit haters now?


Where is CC Kid when you need him?

Crickets....


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## hdtvfan0001

Scott Kocourek said:


> Where is CC Kid when you need him?
> 
> Crickets....


Behold (yet agin) the power of cheese...


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## hbkbiggestfan

hahaha @ Fair Weather fans


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## chevyguy559

NINERS!!! 

And my $'s on Harbaugh over Schwartz :lol:


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## hdtvfan0001

hbkbiggestfan said:


> hahaha @ Fair Weather fans


Packer fan here for a lifetime...shareholder too...just at Lambeau in July (again).

I'm actually happy for the Lions fans - they're overdue for some joy, and they have some legit players now.

The end of the game exchange between the Lions & 49ers coaches was a bit...uh...unorthodox.


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## Tom Robertson

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Packer fan here for a lifetime...shareholder too...just at Lambeau in July (again).
> 
> I'm actually happy for the Lions fans - they're overdue for some joy, and they have some legit players now.
> 
> The end of the game exchange between the Lions & 49ers coaches was a bit...uh...unorthodox.


I heard Harbaugh took the blame for it, that it might have been an overly exuberant handshake or back-slap.

Do they let shareholders do a Lambeau Leap? 

Cheers,
Tom


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## Sharkie_Fan

Tom Robertson said:


> I heard Harbaugh took the blame for it, that it might have been an overly exuberant handshake or back-slap.
> 
> Do they let shareholders do a Lambeau Leap?
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


Just saw the interview with Harbaugh, and he did indeed say that he was a bit exuberant in his handshake and that led to words exchanged between the two. But he took the blame, completely.


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## Laxguy

Sharkie_Fan said:


> Just saw the interview with Harbaugh, and he did indeed say that he was a bit exuberant in his handshake and that led to words exchanged between the two. But he took the blame, completely.


Heard 'bout it on da radio, and both coach's sound bites, (bytes?) but I have it laid down on the HR20, so will see the replay later tonight. Was such a hanger that I had to turn the set off at the whistle and take a walk.


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## sum_random_dork

Was a good game I personally thoguht Shwartz came off as the fool when he decided to chase Harbaugh down the entire field. Then watching the half time report on CBS during the Raiders game their entire crew came off as bafoons, saying Harbaugh was wrong and should have stod up and said he was sorry etc. Then when they came back after a commercial break they had to admit "oh sorry, we were just told Harbaugh did say he was sorry about the handshake at his press conf after." I don't think one of their so called analysts had bothered to actually watch the whole incident nor the post game comments.


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## Stewart Vernon

What's funny here... is IF the Lions are who I think they are... I think this loss helps them tremendously.

Had Green Bay and Detroit met 10-0, I would have easily picked the Packers to win that game because I think Green Bay is the best team this season.

BUT...

Detroit lost a game to another good team... so while they have proven they are good, they now have a chance to prove that losing isn't a landslide. Only one team went undefeated the whole season... only one other team went undefeated for the regular season, and then lost in the final game... so the Lions losing was inevitable... but it depends which game you lose.

I remember the 49ers heyday with Montana where they were winning multiple Superbowls... and you could almost put it down in ink that the Rams, for example, would go 4-12 and 49ers would be 13-3 and would lose to the Rams!

But then you had the early Steve Young years where they couldn't get past Dallas... and that seemed to make the rest of the season blah for them...

IF the Lions make it to the "big" Thanksgiving Day game undefeated but then lose... they could have had the wheels come off IF they saw it as "well, we can't play with the big guys so why bother"...

But I think now they can take a step back... and honestly, if nothing else changes... I'm leaning towards picking Detroit to win that Thanksgiving Day game now.


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## spartanstew

sum_random_dork said:


> Was a good game I personally thoguht Shwartz came off as the fool when he decided to chase Harbaugh down the entire field. Then watching the half time report on CBS during the Raiders game their entire crew came off as bafoons, saying Harbaugh was wrong and should have stod up and said he was sorry etc. Then when they came back after a commercial break they had to admit "oh sorry, we were just told Harbaugh did say he was sorry about the handshake at his press conf after." I don't think one of their so called analysts had bothered to actually watch the whole incident nor the post game comments.


1. Schwartz might have come off as a bit foolish, but Harbaugh came off worse. It's understandable to want to confront someone that acts like an idiot. Less understandablefor the idiot.

2. He did not apologize.


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## Tom Robertson

spartanstew said:


> 1. Schwartz might have come off as a bit foolish, but Harbaugh came off worse. It's understandable to want to confront someone that acts like an idiot. Less understandablefor the idiot.
> 
> 2. He did not apologize.


Schwartz looks the fool for chasing Harbaugh and persisting. If he felt he was pushed aside and heard an expletive, he should have let it go. At most asked for a clarification. Not pressed, pressed, pressed for fight.

You are correct, Harbaugh didn't apologize. He did take blame.

All in all, sounds like a lot of mountain building out of simple human misunderstandings. Unfortunate, especially since both teams are doing so much better than last year.

Cheers,
Tom


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## Laxguy

spartanstew said:


> 1. Schwartz might have come off as a bit foolish, but Harbaugh came off worse. It's understandable to want to confront someone that acts like an idiot. Less understandablefor the idiot.
> 
> 2. He did not apologize.


Just what did Harbaugh do?


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## Tom Robertson

He said he shook his hand too hard and slapped him on the back, perhaps too exuberantly.

He said he was shoved aside and, perhaps, cursed at. (At one point he sounded uncertain if it was a curse.)

He said he was to blame, but didn't apologize.

He said...

Cheers (I say) 
Tom


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## spartanstew

Laxguy said:


> Just what did Harbaugh do?


I think Bill Cower said it best:

"I think Jim [Harbaugh] has a lot to learn," Cowher said of an incident that nearly resulted in an end-zone brawl between the two head coaches. "You just don't do that. I understand his excitement and everything, but there's a respect that has to take place at the end of the game."

"You go over, you won, the other guy lost," Cowher said. "You're going to lose a game too sometime, and somebody could come over and slap you on the back. You're not going to appreciate that. It's about being respectful of the game. &#8230; He can do exuberant, but then you gather your composure and you shake the man's hand."

with Shannon Sharpe chiming in too:

"I know Coach Harbaugh is excited," the Hall of Fame tight end said. "His team went on the road and won a ballgame that very few people thought they could win. But there's a time and a place for all of this. If you want to show your excitement, wait until you get to the locker room. You don't show the head coach up. He knew who that was."

Not really any different than players that excessively celebrate in the end zone and taunt opponents:

Act like you've been there before.


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## Laxguy

Thanks for the comprehensive reply, SS.

The whole thing is a tempest in a teapot. Detroit coach showed worse lapse of judgement in pursuing Harbaugh down the field. - That was ongoing, not just a brief lapse in judgement. 

John Madden was pretty sanguine about it..... and noted that when he coached, there was no handshaking at all. Bill Cowher is a better coach than talking head, and I do hope he returns to that arena.

Heh- That 'scene' was replayed this am on ESPN twice as much as any great plays on the field. Sportscasters, otoh, are having a "field day"!


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## Tom Robertson

spartanstew said:


> I think Bill Cower said it best:
> 
> "I think Jim [Harbaugh] has a lot to learn," Cowher said of an incident that nearly resulted in an end-zone brawl between the two head coaches. "You just don't do that. I understand his excitement and everything, but there's a respect that has to take place at the end of the game."
> 
> "You go over, you won, the other guy lost," Cowher said. "You're going to lose a game too sometime, and somebody could come over and slap you on the back. You're not going to appreciate that. It's about being respectful of the game. &#8230; He can do exuberant, but then you gather your composure and you shake the man's hand."
> 
> with Shannon Sharpe chiming in too:
> 
> "I know Coach Harbaugh is excited," the Hall of Fame tight end said. "His team went on the road and won a ballgame that very few people thought they could win. But there's a time and a place for all of this. If you want to show your excitement, wait until you get to the locker room. You don't show the head coach up. He knew who that was."
> 
> Not really any different than players that excessively celebrate in the end zone and taunt opponents:
> 
> Act like you've been there before.


I don't know how these talking heads really have enough information to judge. We have a he said/he said with some video but no audio.

If all Harbaugh "did" was shake Schwartz hand and slap him on the back for a good game, that shouldn't be a problem. I've seen all kinds of greetings at midfield.

If Harbaugh did curse, then he should get some blame--but we don't know. And Schwartz himself was uncertain.

So how can we judge on the basis of limited information?

Cheers,
Tom


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## kikkenit2

Jim Harbaugh likes to run the score up too. He pissed off Pete Carroll at USC and they had a grouchy handshake after the games about 2 years ago. Hope he wins coach of the year because my niners are worth watching again. Those 2 first round offensive linemen are paying off big time. Several other strong rookies like lb Bowman and cb Rogers also. We should be 6-0.


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## sum_random_dork

Funny how more comes out today about this........Jim Shwartz going up to Jim and John Harbaugh during the summer at a dinner and saying Jim had no chance this year and didn't understand why he took the job. Before the game he goes up to Tony "Goose" Siragussa of FOX and says "the 49ers are afraid of our D and our fans they don't want to start on offense." Then when Jim challanged a play you couldn't challange Jim Shwartz could be seen mouthing "know the rules Harbaugh" with a few other words mixed in. Plus you add in Schwartz's little act last week when they beat the Cowboys and he jumped on the filed with his fist in the air........Now I ask again who came off as the fool? People want to make a big deal about Harbaugh untucking his shirt before the handshake etc........well that's one of his deals with his team when they win "they can untuck their shirts and relax." So you will often see players running up to Harbaugh to get him to untuck his shirt becuase of the win. 

And as for saying sorry.........again he did say he was sorry "it was on him (me) for the hard handshake" he wasn't going to say he was sorry for being excited after the game and going out to greet his team. I watched the post game presser on CSN Bay Area and saw what he said.


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## spartanstew

Tom Robertson said:


> I don't know how these talking heads really have enough information to judge. We have a he said/he said with some video but no audio.
> 
> If all Harbaugh "did" was shake Schwartz hand and slap him on the back for a good game, that shouldn't be a problem. I've seen all kinds of greetings at midfield.
> 
> If Harbaugh did curse, then he should get some blame--but we don't know. And Schwartz himself was uncertain.
> 
> So how can we judge on the basis of limited information?
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


Regardless of what has transpired before with these two, I didn't need audio to know that Harbaugh was acting inappropriately for a post game handshake. Audio is only needed to know if it was even worse than it appeared.


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## Stewart Vernon

Bottom line is that both men ended up looking bad. Harbaugh looks bad for his over-hyperness and Schwartz looks bad for chasing him down.

There is going to be a game where an opponent takes a cheap shot at a Lions player during a game... and Schwartz is going to want his player to stay cool and not react and get a game-changing penalty against the Lions... and his players might remember how he reacted to a slap on the back and some cursing... so he is going to have to work to erase his example to his team.

Similarly, Harbaugh is going to have to work to caution his players not to do something stupid... like oh, remember when Singletary was coach and the 49ers had a game-ending interception that would have won them the game... only the guy that intercepted got carried away running with the ball and lost focus and the other team stripped it to him, and then went on to beat the 49ers?

So... both coaches will have some damage control in the locker room in terms of coaxing their players how to stay cool in a game.


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## Sharkie_Fan

Stewart Vernon said:


> So... both coaches will have some damage control in the locker room in terms of coaxing their players how to stay cool in a game.


Trent Dilfer was on ESPN Radio this morning while I was in the car, and this was his thought on the issue as well.

He didn't think the hyperness / confrontation was that big a deal... except for the fact that both coaches, as you pointed out, are going to try to get their players to keep their cool in certain situation, and this might hinder that message to some extent...

Not a huge deal, but certainly it'll have to be addressed.


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## Tom Robertson

Moving back to the original premise of the thread, I see Peter King still ranks the Lions highly. But never #1. 

Cheers,
Tom


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## Sharkie_Fan

Tom Robertson said:


> Moving back to the original premise of the thread, I see Peter King still ranks the Lions highly. But never #1.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


That same Peter King has my 49ers #2 in his fine 15. I love what the niners are doing this year, but I think putting them #2 might be a bit generous!


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## Tom Robertson

Sharkie_Fan said:


> That same Peter King has my 49ers #2 in his fine 15. I love what the niners are doing this year, but I think putting them #2 might be a bit generous!


Yeah, I hadn't registered that he put the Niners that high. Though that whole bunch with only one loss is kinda hard to really split up.

The good news for you is the Niners are definitely greatly improved. (As are the Lions.) 

Cheers,
Tom


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## Sharkie_Fan

Tom Robertson said:


> Yeah, I hadn't registered that he put the Niners that high. Though that whole bunch with only one loss is kinda hard to really split up.
> 
> The good news for you is the Niners are definitely greatly improved. (As are the Lions.)
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


King tends to break ties with his gut feeling... and I think you could argue that the Patriots and Ravens are right where they're "supposed to be"... the 49ers are playing above expectations, and have two wins on the road @ Philly, and @ Detroit, so they get the "feel good" boost in this weeks rankings.


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## Laxguy

spartanstew said:


> Regardless of what has transpired before with these two, I didn't need audio to know that Harbaugh was acting inappropriately for a post game handshake. Audio is only needed to know if it was even worse than it appeared.


You must be a rabid Cowboys fan, or something. -----> All this hate on the Niners' coach, when the Lions' coach was at least as culpable.

I can't say enough how this stupid little incident has been overplayed by the media and us, and with that I will try to butt out of this thread. Or at least the parts about the coaches' actions. Or maybe I'll limit my comments to just three or four more posts on that, and another dozen on other aspects. Or maybe I'll post a lot more on all matters regarding the coaches, teams, football in general, talking heads, and what they really said, and then analyze that in psychological terms as to what it was really about, and then.....:nono2:


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## Stewart Vernon

Green Bay has not only their record and performance thus far going for them... but the fact that not only are they mostly the same team that won the Super Bowl last season... they also won that game with a lot of injured players that are back... SO even if the injury bug strikes, they already know they can overcome.

Other good teams (Detroit, 49ers, New England, etc.) don't necessarily have that same built-in confidence that they can overcome a bunch of injuries.

That said... IF any of these top teams lose their quarterback, the season is probably done... because all of the really good teams this season seem to really be dependent on their QBs.


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## spartanstew

Laxguy said:


> You must be a rabid Cowboys fan, or something. -----> All this hate on the Niners' coach, when the Lions' coach was at least as culpable.


First, the Cowboys are the worst part about living in Dallas. Second, Schwartz's actions *might* have been just as bad, but would not have happened without Harbaugh's actions. The instigator deserves the brunt of the blame.


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## Tom Robertson

spartanstew said:


> First, the Cowboys are the worst part about living in Dallas. Second, Schwartz's actions *might* have been just as bad, but would not have happened without Harbaugh's actions. The instigator deserves the brunt of the blame.


Baloney. That is only true if the response was reasonable and appropriate for the instigation.

Had Schwartz punched Harbaugh, that would have been entirely Schwartz's fault.

As it is, Schwartz chased Harbaugh 40 yards, confronted him several times and, even after being separated, was still on the apparent attack. That is way out of line for a curse, handshake, and shoving backslap (according to Schwartz.)

Again, we don't really know what happened. There is nothing on the tape to justify what Schwartz did. And I'd be pretty hard pressed to think of anything that anyone could have said to really justify what he did. Much less believe anything of that nature was really said.

Cheers,
Tom


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## spartanstew

Tom Robertson said:


> Had Schwartz punched Harbaugh, that would have been entirely Schwartz's fault.


But he didn't.

In this particular instance (and not hypothetical's), the instigator (Harbaugh) deserves the brunt of the blame. That doesn't mean what Schwartz did was appropriate, but as I said before: I can more easily understand someone acting foolishly when they're provoked over someone acting foolishly with no provocation.


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## Sixto

I viewed it as all Harbaugh. 

When you've just had a brutal loss, and the winner is gloating over it, and then slaps you, well sometimes that's enough to push you over the edge. 

It's not appropriate but at least understandable.


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## Stewart Vernon

Sixto said:


> I viewed it as all Harbaugh.
> 
> When you've just had a brutal loss, and the winner is gloating over it, and then slaps you, well sometimes that's enough to push you over the edge.
> 
> It's not appropriate but at least understandable.


FYI...

This is exactly why the No-Fun-League had to make rules to penalize celebrations in the end zone after touchdowns... because too many celebrations after touchdown were resulting in the other team starting a fight in response to the celebration.

People complain about how it is "silly" to have those rules... and now there are similar (and worse) rules in college that even take away points IF the celebration begins in the field of play before the score!

So, yeah, rules like that are silly... but without the rules... clearly adults can't control their behavior... and fights or chase scenes that make everyone look bad break out.

I honestly don't get why adults get out of control like that... but it might not be too long before we have similar rules for coaches' behavior like we do for players.


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## RACJ2

Coca Cola Kid said:


> Reality my ass. You must have eaten some expired cheese, you're delusional if you think the Packers or anyone else can beat the Lions this year. 19-0, Lions Superbowl XLVI Champions.


Someone was pretty confident a week ago and then no recent posts, what happened?


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## Laxguy

RACJ2 said:


> Someone was pretty confident a week ago and then no recent posts, what happened?


The microwave oven broke, so cooking the crow has been put off for a bit.  Or am I thinking of four and twenty blackbirds??

CC Kid, come back, we're only funnin'.


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## Tom Robertson

spartanstew said:


> But he didn't.
> 
> In this particular instance (and not hypothetical's), the instigator (Harbaugh) deserves the brunt of the blame. That doesn't mean what Schwartz did was appropriate, but as I said before: I can more easily understand someone acting foolishly when they're provoked over someone acting foolishly with no provocation.


You still are hypothesizing what Harbaugh did to deserve the brunt of your ire. At least I have seen nothing to warrant anyone chasing Harbaugh for 40 yards and continually trying to approach in a manner that appears to be very inappropriate--even with people standing in the way to cool him off.

It's looking like we'll have to agree to disagree. I can't imagine what Harbaugh could have been confused to have done or said to warrant Schwatz's apparent chase and attempted attack. Nor that any proof has been offered that Harbaugh actually said or did anything, only that a misunderstanding could have occurred.

Cheers,
Tom


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## spartanstew

Tom Robertson said:


> You still are hypothesizing what Harbaugh did to deserve the brunt of your ire.


Nope, not hypothesizing at all. Going by what I saw with my own eyes. If Harbaugh wanted to celebrate that's fine. But he should have composed himself for 20 seconds to shake Schwartz's hand, then walked away and continued celebrating. You're assuming it has something to do with what was said. I don't care what was said (although that could have made it worse). It was his actions. And while that disrespect might not have warranted Schwartz running after him to maybe tell him "what the hell's wrong with you, show some respect", I can certainly understand it (which is vastly different than condone).



Tom Robertson said:


> I can't imagine what Harbaugh could have been confused to have done or said to warrant Schwatz's apparent chase and attempted attack. Nor that any proof has been offered that Harbaugh actually said or did anything, only that a misunderstanding could have occurred.


Wow. First, you don't have to imagine, just watch the video. He was acting like an idiot - as has been pointed out by almost every analyst, radio show host, and viewer. Not sure why you think jumping up and down, grabbing Schwartz's hand, slapping him on the back and practically knocking him over is appropriate, but obviously your idea of sportsmanship is considerably different than mine. Second, why do you say Schwartz was attempting to attack? He chased after him, because Harbaugh was running away. Undoubtedly to say to him "what the F is wrong with you?", to which Harbaugh clearly responded "get out of my face" (you don't have to be a lip reader to see that).

You are right about one thing, we're going to have to agree to disagree. If you beat me at checkers in my house in front of my family, then ran over lifting your shirt up, jumping up and down, grabbed my hand, slapped me on the back, yelling in victory the whole time, and then started running toward the door, I'd run after you too. But I'd probably catch you.

This pic says most of it, as Schwartz looks on wondering "what is this guys malfunction?":


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## spartanstew

Sixto said:


> I viewed it as all Harbaugh.
> 
> When you've just had a brutal loss, and the winner is gloating over it, and then slaps you, well sometimes that's enough to push you over the edge.
> 
> It's not appropriate but at least understandable.


Exactly. Glad at least you understand Sixto.


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## Sharkie_Fan

spartanstew said:


> He was acting like an idiot


I don't dispute that Harbaugh was way too amped up....

But, Schwartz acted like an idiot all day long, running his mouth about how the 49ers were afraid of the Lions, and yelling across the field at one point "Know the rules, Harbaugh". To run your mouth like that all day and they cry like a little girl with the opposing coach pats your back too hard just makes Schwartz look like a fool, IMO.

IN other words, they were both acting like fools.... but, IMO, Schwartz comes off looking worse. My folks always told us "Don't dish it out if you can't take it". Don't act the fool all day and then get your panties in a bunch when the opposing coach returns the favor.


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## phat78boy

Sharkie_Fan said:


> I don't dispute that Harbaugh was way too amped up....
> 
> But, Schwartz acted like an idiot all day long, running his mouth about how the 49ers were afraid of the Lions, and yelling across the field at one point "Know the rules, Harbaugh". To run your mouth like that all day and they cry like a little girl with the opposing coach pats your back too hard just makes Schwartz look like a fool, IMO.
> 
> IN other words, they were both acting like fools.... but, IMO, Schwartz comes off looking worse. My folks always told us "Don't dish it out if you can't take it". Don't act the fool all day and then get your panties in a bunch when the opposing coach returns the favor.


Couldn't agree more. Talk mess all game long, but if they lose they will look for any reason to start a fight....I've dealt with this type many times through life.


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## hdtvfan0001

The whole thing looks like 2 coaches who drink waaaaay too much coffee or Coke meeting and a media-hyped up event. 

Result = embarrassment for the coaches and their respective teams.

My guess is a lesson was learned.


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## Laxguy

hdtvfan0001 said:


> The whole thing looks like 2 coaches who drink waaaaay too much coffee or Coke meeting and a media-hyped up event.
> 
> Result = embarrassment for the coaches and their respective teams.
> 
> My guess is a lesson was learned.


Heh: We'll see.....:eek2:

Now here's an outside theory that no one's put forward: *They did it for ratings!* Yes, they cooked it up at that dinner where Schwartz allegedly bad mouthed John Harbaugh's team!

Don't you see it now?? Do you not grant me that there will be some number tuning into future Lions, and Niners, games (not neccessarily vs. each other!) just to see how the coaches comport themselves?? Well, it could happen.....

I also grant that there may be good reason why no one's come up with this.

Where are the grassy knoll guys when you need 'em? Or Ollie Stone?


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## Sharkie_Fan

Laxguy said:


> Heh: We'll see.....:eek2:
> 
> Now here's an outside theory that no one's put forward: *They did it for ratings!* Yes, they cooked it up at that dinner where Schwartz allegedly bad mouthed John Harbaugh's team!
> 
> Don't you see it now?? Do you not grant me that there will be some number tuning into future Lions, and Niners, games (not neccessarily vs. each other!) just to see how the coaches comport themselves?? Well, it could happen.....
> 
> I also grant that there may be good reason why no one's come up with this.
> 
> Where are the grassy knoll guys when you need 'em? Or Ollie Stone?


Somebody in the Detroit media floated that idea out there. It was some local guy whose story I found linked from a forum. He basically said that Schwartz and Harbaugh were both media "hounds" (his adjective wasn't so PC), and that it was all a stunt. The irony, according to the person who posted the link, was this writer calling someone else a "media hound".

I did see someone else, in half seriousness, who wondered if it wasn't calculated on Schwartz's part... After all, it is their first loss of the season, they didn't look real good in said loss, and nobody is talking about it - everybody is focused on the coaches shenanigans. (I personally don't give theory much credence, but it is out there).


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## Richierich

And Embarrassment for the NFL in General too!!!


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## Scott Kocourek

Come on Coca Cola Kid, come out and play. 

Look as much as I don't want the Packers to lose a game I'm sure they will, I just hope you come back before then.


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## Laxguy

I thought the UCLA-AZ game was worse. Both teams should be suspended.


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## Stewart Vernon

Laxguy said:


> I thought the UCLA-AZ game was worse. Both teams should be suspended.


Agreed that it was worse... hard to say the whole teams should be suspended, but it did sure look like most of them got involved!

Oddly enough, I happened to be watching when all that happened, despite the game being way beyond decided at that point.

I did find it weird, though, some of today's discussion... noting that last week a Green Bay Packer player was fined for wearing off-color shoes that probably nobody noticed... but two coaches creating a stir in the center of the field on TV resulted in no fine for either coach.


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## Tom Robertson

So what are the records in the NFC Norte now?


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## Davenlr

Yea, but I was sweatin' a little toward the end there...


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## Scott Kocourek

All I'm gonna say is WOO-HOO! Squeaked one out and the bye week to recover.

It's good to be a Packers fan!


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## Tom Robertson

Scott Kocourek said:


> All I'm gonna say is WOO-HOO! Squeaked one out and the bye week to recover.
> 
> It's good to be a Packers fan!


Considering that once the Packers took the lead, they never relinquished it I don't really call it a squeaker. 

This is the first game this season where the Packers were behind more than one time in a game. An amazing record in itself. 

I will say I was more concerned that I would like, but they got the job done. 

Cheers,
Tom


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## Scott Kocourek

Good point about the squeaker, I guess I'm just a little spoiled and being behind at any point just doesn't feel right.


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## Stewart Vernon

I'm most concerned about the Packers defense. This is a game where Green Bay pretty much outplayed Minnesota all day, and yet at the end of the game the Vikings were never out of it.

So far, Green Bay has been getting away with this because they have been clicking on offense... but I worry what happens when they play a good team that has a strong defense and then something doesn't click and they need a defensive stop to get through the game.

It's hard to poo-poo the last undefeated team in the league! But... if I were a Packers fan, I would be biting my nails a little in anticipation of what happens when their backs are against the wall and they need a defensive stop.

As for Detroit... I really hope this isn't the start of the wheels coming off... and Stafford might be injured too? I hope they don't fade away... but 2 losses at home in a row... Detroit fans should be a little bit concerned at this point since they haven't yet played the Packers and they are already 2 games back in their division... it could get worse in a hurry if they don't right the ship.


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## Davenlr

I agree Stewart. They allowed way to many 3rd down conversions. So many, the Vikings actually contemplated going for it on 4th and 10.


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## Tom Robertson

Stewart,

I know what you mean. I'm watching the Packers D give up many yards. And sometimes, like today, more points thank I'd like.

McCarthy always talks about improving. We are 4/5/6 and 0, yet "we need to continue to improve." Continue to get better.

And I think the Packers are missing Cullen Jenkins more than they expected. He was a big part of an awesome front the Packers had in the playoffs last year. I'm hoping when Neal finally gets to play we'll have that again. And won't that be scary for other teams... 

Cheers,
Tom


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## Stewart Vernon

I was just looking at the schedule... and for the most part Green Bay is probably good for the rest of the season. I'm not guaranteeing run-the-table good... but they really don't have any "complete" teams left to play.

Detroit and the Giants might be the best two defensive teams left on the schedule... and those two teams also happen (fortunately for the Packers) to be teams that have some offensive issues.

I think back to the first game against New Orleans... and how Green Bay outscored the Saints basically... and it seems to me that since then, the Saints are slowly getting a little better on defense (not great, but better)... whereas the Packers are seeming pretty much the same to me on defense.

So the Saints would scare me in a rematch in the playoffs. IF Harbaugh keeps the 49ers on track the whole season, then they would REALLY scare me if they keep going the way they are, because they have a solid defense and their offense is improving as the season goes.

Detroit has fallen back a little now, so I wouldn't fear them in the same way I would have a couple of weeks ago.

On the AFC side... New England has a poor defense but their offense is in league with Green Bay... and the Ravens are like the flip of that... the offense is ok but the defense is really good. The Ravens might really be a problem for the Packers IF it comes to that in the Super Bowl.

All things considered... it's probably a good year in some ways to be weak on defense... since there aren't a lot of powerhouse teams... but it still makes me a little nervous.

I look at my Panthers... and truth be told... they have had more than enough offense to be 5-2 instead of the 2-5 they are! But the Panthers have way less defense than the Packers... so you see how that works out!

If you really look at the Packers final scores... they are undefeated, but could easily have dropped about half of their games if things went just a little bit askew... not the fault of the offense, but that's because they have been playing near perfect, and odds are against them continuing to be perfect week to week.


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## Stuart Sweet

Closed at the thread starter's request.


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