# ViP622/ViP722 - L5.12/L6.10/L6.12/L6.14 Audio Related Issues Discussions



## Ron Barry

I have moved the Audio related posts to their own thread so that it can be more easily digested by interested parties. Only posts V5.12 Audio related issues here. All other V5.12 issues should be posted in the main thread.


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## moman19

Has anyone noticed if the audio dropout issue is resolved with this release? I have experienced this problem on my local HD channels but am still on 5.11.


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## Scott Spillers

moman19 said:


> Has anyone noticed if the audio dropout issue is resolved with this release? I have experienced this problem on my local HD channels but am still on 5.11.


Nope. I still am having audio dropout problems. Especially with the Seattle ABC affiliate KOMO when delayed or recorded. The 11 o'clock news is bad every night. But the trick play problems are few and far between. Much, much better!


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## Ron Barry

I am pretty sure the Komo problems is a source related issue based on some of the other posts I have read.. I am sure Rob will bonk me on the head if that is not true... Scott.. Do you have any other receiver to compare?


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## Rob Glasser

Ron Barry said:


> I am pretty sure the Komo problems is a source related issue based on some of the other posts I have read.. I am sure Rob will bonk me on the head if that is not true... Scott.. Do you have any other receiver to compare?


A long time (i.e. well over a year or so) ago the audio issues with KOMO were their fault but I think the last round of issues is something else. I know that during the end of the TV season in May I would have problems with KOMO HD events recorded via the DishHD station but the same event via my OTA version of KOMO HD would play fine. I haven't really watched anything delayed/DVR on KOMO HD since Lost ended. I'll have to take another look.

I'll try and check out the news cast tonight.


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## moman19

Scott Spillers said:


> ........ I still am having audio dropout problems. Especially with the Seattle ABC affiliate KOMO when delayed or recorded. The 11 o'clock news is bad every night. But the trick play problems are few and far between. Much, much better!


Ditto. I got 5.12 last night on both DVRs. I can confirm that Trick Play now works better but the audio dropouts are still there. I see this mostly on recorded local Fox and ABC channels. In addition, I am now seeing intermittent (perhaps once every 2 minutes) brief image breakups on NBC with sudden camera or scene changes. This is most apparent during Prime Time and Leno. This issue was evident about a year ago but fixed with or before 4.49. It came back with 5.11 and is still apparent with 5.12.


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## Rob Glasser

So I recorded and watched the 11:00pm news on KOMO HD, delayed, and didn't see any dropouts. I didn't watch the whole thing but spot checked it throughout the broadcast. If there is a certain show, or maybe just national HD content, that is showing this let me know and I'll setup timers to try and test.


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## moman19

Rob Glasser said:


> So I recorded and watched the 11:00pm news on KOMO HD, delayed, and didn't see any dropouts. I didn't watch the whole thing but spot checked it throughout the broadcast. If there is a certain show, or maybe just national HD content, that is showing this let me know and I'll setup timers to try and test.


I have experienced the following:

Occasional audio dropouts apparent on recorded episodes of House from this past season on Fox. (I'm still catching up) If I skip back, the dropout will be gone. Also, recorded episodes of Nightline on ABC can sometimes sound garbled, as if speaking under water throughout the show.


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## Tulsa1

moman19 said:


> I have experienced the following:
> 
> Occasional audio dropouts apparent on recorded episodes of House from this past season on Fox. (I'm still catching up) If I skip back, the dropout will be gone. Also, recorded episodes of Nightline on ABC can sometimes sound garbled, as if speaking under water throughout the show.


Just a thought but both of those networks broadcast in 720P


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## vis_vis

Rob Glasser said:


> A long time (i.e. well over a year or so) ago the audio issues with KOMO were their fault but I think the last round of issues is something else. I know that during the end of the TV season in May I would have problems with KOMO HD events recorded via the DishHD station but the same event via my OTA version of KOMO HD would play fine. I haven't really watched anything delayed/DVR on KOMO HD since Lost ended. I'll have to take another look.
> 
> I'll try and check out the news cast tonight.


Rob,

It is interesting but local channels in Bay Area have similar audio issues since 5.11. My 622 was on 4.49 and was working fine until 5.11 came. I never had (or better said only had minor) issues with this receiver until three weeks ago when 5.11 was installed.

The audio drops occasionally on Live TV, but recorded or delayed shows are totally unwatchable. The audio mostly drops on KTVU (Ch 2 FOX), ABC (7), CBS (5), NBC (11).

In the past days I noticed that the audio on other channels (Discovery HD, History HD) occasionally drops on Live TV (rarely) but on recorded and delayed it drops 5-6 times for 1-2 sec, in a 30 min period.

I am curious to see if 5.12 resolves these issues.

Regards,


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## Cap'n Preshoot

Tulsa1 said:


> Just a thought but both of those networks broadcast in 720P


I fail to see the correlation. Digital data is just that, digital data. Ones and zeroes, whether 480i, 720p or 1080i, just ones and zeroes. Why would the codec pick on one bitstream and not another, and why just the audio? We see the same problem here and it's hitting the 1080i channels as well as 720p. Sounds like momentary burps


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## Dr. Cool

Confirmed: I'm yet having audio dropouts with OTA local channels even after the update to 5.12, including PBS which is 1080i. Not with live programming, only with recorded or delayed shows. If I rewind after a dropout, it doesn't repeat itself. Meaning that: (1) it's not a problem with my receiver (otherwise it would happen with live shows too) (2) it's not a problem with my TOSLINK cable (otherwise it would happen with all other channels and in all modes) (3) it's not a broadcast signal problem (otherwise it would repeat itself after rewinding and it would happen when watching live programming) (4) it's caused by a DVR bug (only logical explanation). I also suspect that the audio dropouts do not happen with the analog outputs, only with the optical/Dolby Digital output, although I need to test that yet. Furthermore, the problem started with FW 5.11, since I'm 100% sure that the problem didn't exist with 4.49 and previous FWs. Audio was flawless until about one month ago. Finally, it doesn't look like the stream of data is interrupted -- my receiver has speaker relays that "click" when there is an interruption due to signal loss or cable disconnection. These dropouts happen without producing the clicks or changes in the stream status panel, so it looks more like the sound is muted at the 622 or there is a mismatch between audio and video streams that leads to lack of sound during the audio glitches, without affecting the continuity of the streams.


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## moman19

Dr. Cool has it right. I Ditto his points. The muting is momentary and seems limited to the broadcast channels. It is so brief that it usually only mutes one syllable of a multi-syllable word. But that often makes the word unintelligible. I recorded a Fox show last night for time-shifted viewing and it occurred about once per minute.


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## vis_vis

Dr. Cool said:


> Confirmed: I'm yet having audio dropouts with OTA local channels even after the update to 5.12, including PBS which is 1080i. Not with live programming, only with recorded or delayed shows. If I rewind after a dropout, it doesn't repeat itself. Meaning that: (1) it's not a problem with my receiver (otherwise it would happen with live shows too) (2) it's not a problem with my TOSLINK cable (otherwise it would happen with all other channels and in all modes) (3) it's not a broadcast signal problem (otherwise it would repeat itself after rewinding and it would happen when watching live programming) (4) it's caused by a DVR bug (only logical explanation). I also suspect that the audio dropouts do not happen with the analog outputs, only with the optical/Dolby Digital output, although I need to test that yet. Furthermore, the problem started with FW 5.11, since I'm 100% sure that the problem didn't exist with 4.49 and previous FWs. Audio was flawless until about one month ago. Finally, it doesn't look like the stream of data is interrupted -- my receiver has speaker relays that "click" when there is an interruption due to signal loss or cable disconnection. These dropouts happen without producing the clicks or changes in the stream status panel, so it looks more like the sound is muted at the 622 or there is a mismatch between audio and video streams that leads to lack of sound during the audio glitches, without affecting the continuity of the streams.


My DVR got 5.12 yesterday afternoon. I hoped this would fix the major audio issue clearly introduced by 5.11. On my ViP622, all worked fine until 5.11 was installed, regardless of the software version.

I also have major audio dropouts on recorded and delayed programming mainly on local channels (in Bay Area, FOX-2, ABC-7, CBS-5 and NBC-11) which makes the show unwatchable (not sure why but the drop is more frequent on newscasts, 10PM or 11PM news).

I did some tests last night and watched the same channel (FOX-2) on both tuners in the same time, one on channel 2 and the other on channel 6XXX (whatever the number was) and both had the same issues. I am not sure if the broadcast on Channel 2 KTVU is just linked to channel 6XXX or they broadcast from different transponders (didn't have a chance to research this yet) but they both come with the problem. Sometimes there is a slight difference between the two, the audio drops more on one than on the other, and sometimes it may even drop more or less depending on how many times I skip back and re-watch the scene. Very strange indeed.

You say that the audio may not drop in the same place if you rewind, I have noticed that there may be inconsistencies but the audio drop doesn't go away entirely.

Last night I watched a time delayed, paused for about 10 min "So you think you can dance" and the audio didn't drop (I assume this was a national, at least West Coast, feed) but the second the show ended and the broadcast was changed to the local feed, the audio started to drop continuously.

Occasionally I notice the audio dropping on other HD/SD channels but this HD local channels issue introduced by 5.11 (and not fixed by 5.12) is really disturbing, making the show unwatchable when recorded or time delayed.

Sorry for the long post...


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## moman19

It must be hit & miss because I was watching the same show (So you think you can dance) and the audio dropouts were all over the place. Interestingly, it was frequent and most obvious immediately after the commercial breaks that I zipped through. 

I was viewing it time-shifted on the sat HD channel, not OTA.


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## vis_vis

moman19 said:


> It must be hit & miss because I was watching the same show (So you think you can dance) and the audio dropouts were all over the place. Interestingly, it was frequent and most obvious immediately after the commercial breaks that I zipped through.
> 
> I was viewing it time-shifted on the sat HD channel, not OTA.


Very strange indeed. I wonder why these inconsistencies. Now we know it is not only the local feed affected, the national (or West Coast) may be affected as well.

I also refer to the HD channels that come from Dish, I do not have OTA setup on the receiver (or the TV for that matter).

BTW, I see this issue with HDMI (receiver to LCD TV) but also on another TV via antenna out, so this is a receiver issue, and not HDMI or TV related.


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## PRIME1

Just wanted to add that I am still having the audio dropout issue as well.


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## beachcamp

I am also having the audio drop out problem on my 722. I have only seen it happen on one channel so far, my Fox local, KDFW in Dallas. I am watching live, not recorded when this happens and it has happened on local programs and network programs. This has been going on since 5.11 and is still going on with 5.12. This is not just a momentary thing at times. Lasted a couple of minutes or more on several occasions, but usually its just a brief dropout. 

I have now seen the audio dropout on other channels than KDFW. It happened on KDFW, my NBC station, on a national broadcast, and I have had it on a recorded program. Audio was lost on and episode of "The Closer", on TNT for about 15 minutes of the program, and then returned to normal.


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## Patent geek

Re audio drop out issues, I was just watching a DVR'ed episode of the Simpsons (syndicated by my local Fox affiliate) and was noticing frequent audio glitches. In almost every case, the audio didn't drop out entirely, but was significantly garbled/distorted to the point of being unintelligible for several seconds. Roughly analogous to the loss in quality/bandwidth loss you hear on a cell phone right at the fringe of reception.


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## moman19

Patent geek said:


> Re audio drop out issues, I was just watching a DVR'ed episode of the Simpsons (syndicated by my local Fox affiliate) and was noticing frequent audio glitches. In almost every case, the audio didn't drop out entirely, but was significantly garbled/distorted to the point of being unintelligible for several seconds. Roughly analogous to the loss in quality/bandwidth loss you hear on a cell phone right at the fringe of reception.


Join the club, Mr. Geek! This seems most obvious on OTA channels. Not sure E* has even acknowledged there is a problem.


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## Patent geek

moman19 said:


> Join the club, Mr. Geek! This seems most obvious on OTA channels. Not sure E* has even acknowledged there is a problem.


Haven't seen it yet with OTA - in this instance I was recording off of 61.5. (Fox is my one "problem child" for OTA reception.) I'll keep experimenting.


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## Ron Barry

And I have not seen this experience on either my OTA or my Dish HD locals. I would suggest if there is a particular channel/program to report it here so others can confirm the experience. 

With L5.12, seems some people are reporting Audio issues... I am having a hard to deciphering if the reports are just introduced in L5.12 or are they ongoing?


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## moman19

Ron Barry said:


> .......With L5.12, seems some people are reporting Audio issues... I am having a hard to deciphering if the reports are just introduced in L5.12 or are they ongoing?


In my case, it was introduced with 5.11 and is very noticeable on ABC and Fox. It is apparent on both my DVRs.


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## Patent geek

Ron Barry said:


> . . . . With L5.12, seems some people are reporting Audio issues... I am having a hard to deciphering if the reports are just introduced in L5.12 or are they ongoing?


It seems like they predate 5.12. Maybe the issue warrants a thread of its own with which to collect data.


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## Dr. Cool

As I said in my previous post, my 622 audio dropouts happen only with OTA HD local channels (over antenna). Not with OTA SD local channels. They started with 5.11. I just confirmed that the dropouts do not happen when I use the RCA stereo output. They happen only with the TOSLINK stream. It's not a receiver problem, since the dropouts don't happen when in live mode. They only happen when using the DVR or when watched delayed (time shifted). If I rewind and watch the same segment again, I notice that the dropouts never happen twice at the same point. It may take from 1 minute to 30 minutes for a dropout to happen, depending on the show. It appears that the problem depends on the quality of the stream. The more compressed the stream, the less dropouts I observe. Therefore, the higher the PQ, the more frequent are the dropouts. I believe this explains why I don't observe audio dropouts with satellite channels: satellite streams have been very compressed lately.


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## vis_vis

Ron Barry said:


> And I have not seen this experience on either my OTA or my Dish HD locals. I would suggest if there is a particular channel/program to report it here so others can confirm the experience.
> 
> With L5.12, seems some people are reporting Audio issues... I am having a hard to deciphering if the reports are just introduced in L5.12 or are they ongoing?


Ron,

The audio problems started with 5.11 about one month ago. Previous software version on my 622 was 4.49 and all worked fine.

I have major audio issues and the broadcast is unwatchable on the following channels in Bay Area:

KTVU (FOX 2)
CBS 5
KGO (ABC 7) 
NBC 11

Live TV is acceptable, although audio may occasionally drop, but delayed and Live TV is frustrating. The same channels in SD play just fine.

I will get a few minutes of a broadcast and post it on Youtube one of these days so everybody could see and eventually determine if they have similar issues.

Needless to say that my 2 weeks old tech support call resolved nothing. I am still waiting for an answer from DN.

Please let me know if you need more info.

Regards,

EDIT: I do not have OTA setup on the receiver, the channels I am having problems with come from Dish HD Local, not OTA. I have a similar post in the 5.11 playback issues.


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## moman19

I have the audio dropout issue on both OTA HD as well as the Dish HD locals via Sat. In fact, I'm not 100% sure it's limited only to the local network channels as my viewing has been limited lately. I have not noticed this problem on SD channels. Again, this is new with 5.11 and 5.12.

Audio was cutting out on ESPN last night during the Home Run Derby, but I think this was coincidental because a quick jump back played the null in exactly the same place. The issue I'm seeing on the locals almost never repeats when played back.


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## Ron Barry

moman19 said:


> Audio was cutting out on ESPN last night during the Home Run Derby, but I think this was coincidental because a quick jump back played the null in exactly the same place. The issue I'm seeing on the locals almost never repeats when played back.


Interesting.. I was watching this delayed and I did not notice it in my configuration. Watched Rounds 2 and 3 and no dropouts. Might be a combination of equipment, what is your connection moman. I am connected optical to a Pioneer Elite VX-26T I believe.


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## moman19

Ron Barry said:


> Interesting.. I was watching this delayed and I did not notice it in my configuration. Watched Rounds 2 and 3 and no dropouts. Might be a combination of equipment, what is your connection moman. I am connected optical to a Pioneer Elite VX-26T I believe.


I too, am connected to a Pioneer (unsure of model) via optical. The audio cut-outs were seldom, but quite apparent. Like I said, this was definitely NOT the same problem experienced with the locals, where if you hit the back button, one could make out what was muted. In the case of ESPN, the audio cut-outs were "hard coded" in the recording.


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## SteveRS

So when is Dish going to release an update to fix all the audio dropouts on L5.12?


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## Dr. Cool

I noticed today audio dropouts with recorded programming from HDMOV (over satellite). Pressing the "skip back" button once would not reproduce the dropout, but pressing the "skip back" button twice would always reproduce it at exactly the same spot. As if the processor would "clog" with a longer stream of audio. Signal was strong and there was no loss of signal during recording. Video was perfect. These audio dropouts are frustrating, since they never happened before FW 5.11 came in. Again, they appear to be more common when video compression is low and PQ is high, as was the case with this HDMOV movie.


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## moman19

*Audio Dropouts continue.*

With not much new Summer content to watch, I've been catching up on old recordings I threw onto the external drive. I find this is when the audio dropouts are at their worse. I watched 3 hours of Gray's Anatomy and found countless audio dropouts. When I hit the back-button and the dropouts are gone.

I actually noticed a slight pattern to the dropouts, but it was NOT consistent or predictable. Almost always, the audio would drop for a moment, there was then an immediate & dramatic scene change, followed by a second audio dropout.

Whatever the cause, this was not the case with 4.49 and seems much worse when viewing an event from the external drive. Audio is via TOSLINK. Still seems limited to ABC and Fox shows.


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## Scott Spillers

Ron Barry said:


> I am pretty sure the Komo problems is a source related issue based on some of the other posts I have read.. I am sure Rob will bonk me on the head if that is not true... Scott.. Do you have any other receiver to compare?


It definitely happens more on KOMO than on any other channel. It happens during the local 11PM news every night. My wife and I noticed that it happens even more during the weather segment for some odd reason. So, this would lead to it being source related. BUT, it does happen on other channels with much less frequency.


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## Scott Spillers

Rob Glasser said:


> So I recorded and watched the 11:00pm news on KOMO HD, delayed, and didn't see any dropouts. I didn't watch the whole thing but spot checked it throughout the broadcast. If there is a certain show, or maybe just national HD content, that is showing this let me know and I'll setup timers to try and test.


Rob, It happens pretty reliably during the 11PM news on KOMO HD on my 622. Try recording it again if you get a chance. For whatever reason, the dropouts always seem to be a problem during the weather segment. During the news, the dropouts are very short, probably .25 seconds in length. Sometimes it just shows up as short pops and clicks.


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## Scott Spillers

Dr. Cool said:


> Confirmed: I'm yet having audio dropouts with OTA local channels even after the update to 5.12, including PBS which is 1080i. Not with live programming, only with recorded or delayed shows. If I rewind after a dropout, it doesn't repeat itself. Meaning that: (1) it's not a problem with my receiver (otherwise it would happen with live shows too) (2) it's not a problem with my TOSLINK cable (otherwise it would happen with all other channels and in all modes) (3) it's not a broadcast signal problem (otherwise it would repeat itself after rewinding and it would happen when watching live programming) (4) it's caused by a DVR bug (only logical explanation). I also suspect that the audio dropouts do not happen with the analog outputs, only with the optical/Dolby Digital output, although I need to test that yet. Furthermore, the problem started with FW 5.11, since I'm 100% sure that the problem didn't exist with 4.49 and previous FWs. Audio was flawless until about one month ago. Finally, it doesn't look like the stream of data is interrupted -- my receiver has speaker relays that "click" when there is an interruption due to signal loss or cable disconnection. These dropouts happen without producing the clicks or changes in the stream status panel, so it looks more like the sound is muted at the 622 or there is a mismatch between audio and video streams that leads to lack of sound during the audio glitches, without affecting the continuity of the streams.


Your experiences are the same as mine, but I can confirm that the problem is still present when monitoring the analog audio outputs. In fact, we watch the playback of the local news on the modulated output of TV2, and the audio dropouts sound the same there as they do with the analog outputs for TV1.


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## Scott Spillers

moman19 said:


> *Audio Dropouts continue.*
> 
> With not much new Summer content to watch, I've been catching up on old recordings I threw onto the external drive. I find this is when the audio dropouts are at their worse. I watched 3 hours of Gray's Anatomy and found countless audio dropouts. When I hit the back-button and the dropouts are gone.
> 
> I actually noticed a slight pattern to the dropouts, but it was NOT consistent or predictable. Almost always, the audio would drop for a moment, there was then an immediate & dramatic scene change, followed by a second audio dropout.
> 
> Whatever the cause, this was not the case with 4.49 and seems much worse when viewing an event from the external drive. Audio is via TOSLINK. Still seems limited to ABC and Fox shows.


I've also noticed an apparent relationship between changes in the video displayed and the presence of the dropout issue. For example, during the local 11PM newscast on KOMO HD (ABC Seattle), the dropouts always seem to be more frequent during the weather segment.


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## OregonDuck

I noticed audio drop outs today watching the British Open on the Dish supplied ABC local KATU. These drop outs disappeared when I switched over to OTA. These drop outs are now appearing on the Fox 12 news tonight as well.


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## moman19

dbconsultant said:


> .....I have seen, intermittently, that when you start watching a dvr'd event, all you get is black screen and then it finally comes on if you FF and then you can RW back to the beginning....


I've seen this issue occur a few rare times, but it does exist. In my case, when it has happened --- and it rarely does --- it has always occurred on the local CBS channel. I never bothered to report this bug as I considered it a minor annoyance and could not duplicate it easily. Maybe I don't record that many CBS shows, but I recall Letterman getting stuck a few times.

In regards to the intermittent audio issue, I see other users are reporting this on the E* HD Forum: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=133727

Funny. Folks in San Fran are having audio issues with the same two local networks I'm struggling with here in the Midwest.


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## moman19

It's been quiet for a while and Customer Service can offer no help other than a suggested "reboot", so I'll bring this topic up again:

*The audio is officially broken with 5.11 and 5.12.* Dropouts are common and it mostly affects my recordings on the EHD in a very bad way. Many of my cherished RAVE concerts from VOOM can no longer be played due to constant audio drop outs-----many drops per minute. This is easily reproduced, I only wish that someone would ask for a demonstration. While new recordings stored on the EHD exhibit occasional audio dropouts, Pre-5.11 recordings are HORRIBLE and cannot be played.

Sadly, this started with 5.11 and got no better with 5.12. I have no indication that E* is even investigating the matter and I find this intolerable to the point where I will switch to another provider if something positive doesn't happen soon.

Am I alone here? Is everyone else on vacation? I was happy with 4.49 until someone decided to "improve" the DVR which has essentially left me with a broken system and no recourse other than to vote with my feet. I now have a library of saved events that I can no longer enjoy.

Audio drops occur on both the HDMI and optical outputs. I NEVER had this until 5.11.


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## vis_vis

moman19 said:


> It's been quiet for a while and Customer Service can offer no help other than a suggested "reboot", so I'll bring this topic up again:
> 
> *The audio is officially broken with 5.11 and 5.12.* Dropouts are common and it mostly affects my recordings on the EHD in a very bad way. Many of my cherished RAVE concerts from VOOM can no longer be played due to constant audio drop outs-----many drops per minute. This is easily reproduced, I only wish that someone would ask for a demonstration. While new recordings stored on the EHD exhibit occasional audio dropouts, Pre-5.11 recordings are HORRIBLE and cannot be played.
> 
> Sadly, this started with 5.11 and got no better with 5.12. I have no indication that E* is even investigating the matter and I find this intolerable to the point where I will switch to another provider if something positive doesn't happen soon.
> 
> Am I alone here? Is everyone else on vacation? I was happy with 4.49 until someone decided to "improve" the DVR which has essentially left me with a broken system and no recourse other than to vote with my feet. I now have a library of saved events that I can no longer enjoy.
> 
> Audio drops occur on both the HDMI and optical outputs. I NEVER had this until 5.11.


Same here. I reported this in the forum, called customer support, chatted with them, etc.. for almost two months since 5.11 was installed. 5.12 didn't fix anything and the answer to my calls and emails was that they are "working on it"...

I have two months left on my contract and seriously thinking that after 8 years as a Dish customer the time has come for me to move on. The DVR is useless at this point and recently I noticed that besides all locals in HD (FOX2, CBS5, ABC7, NBC11 in Bay Area), Smithsonian HD recordings freeze for several minutes, then the audio continues but with a static image, then etc, etc, etc... too many problems to continue.

I wonder how Dish allows releasing software updates without thorough testing in all markets. I am not sure if this is a localized issue but at this point I am spending my money on a product that does not deliver, and worse, nobody seems to care about. All worked fine with 4.49.


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## Dr. Cool

vis_vis said:


> Same here. I reported this in the forum, called customer support, chatted with them, etc.. for almost two months since 5.11 was installed. 5.12 didn't fix anything and the answer to my calls and emails was that they are "working on it"...
> 
> I have two months left on my contract and seriously thinking that after 8 years as a Dish customer the time has come for me to move on. The DVR is useless at this point and recently I noticed that besides all locals in HD (FOX2, CBS5, ABC7, NBC11 in Bay Area), Smithsonian HD recordings freeze for several minutes, then the audio continues but with a static image, then etc, etc, etc... too many problems to continue.
> 
> I wonder how Dish allows releasing software updates without thorough testing in all markets. I am not sure if this is a localized issue but at this point I am spending my money on a product that does not deliver, and worse, nobody seems to care about. All worked fine with 4.49.


That's right, version 4.49 didn't have any major glitch. Audio dropouts became a major problem with 5.11 and afterwards.


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## moman19

Attention Dish: Are you taking notes? This may be a small sample of what's really going on. These issues need to be addressed or at least acknowledged. Rel 5.12 is unstable and needs to be fixed or rolled back. Too bad we feel like we're just talking to ourselves. At least offer us the option to opt in or "lag" behind. Given the chance, I would gladly go back to 4.49 and stop all complaints.

I should be able to play the programs I stored on my EHD. It's now broken and it's not a hardware issue. FYI, only the audio cuts in and out. The video is still flawless.


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## moman19

OK folks, we now have our own thread. Please feel free to chime in with your detailed comments and findings. The more data the folks at E* have, the better our chances for a quick fix.


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## mulder5000

I also have audio dropouts. I only notice it on delayed/recorded sat delivered locals (I don't have OTA). It's the worst on KTVI Fox 2 during the nightly news, but I have also noticed it on all 4 local channels. National sat HD channels work fine. These audio dropouts also occur on shows I had previously recorded before 5.11 - shows that at one point worked fine.
TV1 audio is connected via TOSLINK, but the same dropouts occur on TV2.


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## ChuckA

I'm not sure you are looking for this type of feedback but I'll throw it in. I have both a 622 (bootstrap 1710) and 722 (bootstrap 1415) and I do not have audio problems on live, delayed or recorded programs. I use sat national and local SD and HD channels as well as OTA. I do not use an A/V receiver. My 622 is connected to the TV via HDMI and the 722 is connected via Component and RCA audio.

I had severe audio (and video) problems with 5.11 but 5.12 took care of them for me.


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## SingleAction

5.12 fixed all the audio/video issues with my 622, but I still can't watch anything on my ehd since 4.49. It starts off playing a program, and 5 mins into it, it locks up. I have to restore it to the receiver, and it plays fine. 

What a pain!


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## Ron Barry

One thing you guys can do is if you are having issues with your HD locals is include your DMA. I am in SoCal and I have not noticed any audio issues for the LA DMA and I have not seen any audio issues for the content I am watching.


----------



## moman19

mulder5000 said:


> I also have audio dropouts. I only notice it on delayed/recorded sat delivered locals (I don't have OTA). It's the worst on KTVI Fox 2 during the nightly news, but I have also noticed it on all 4 local channels. National sat HD channels work fine. These audio dropouts also occur on shows I had previously recorded before 5.11 - shows that at one point worked fine.
> TV1 audio is connected via TOSLINK, but the same dropouts occur on TV2.


Interesting. I too, am located in St. Louis and suffer identical symptoms on the same local channel as well as recordings prior to 5.11.


----------



## vis_vis

Here is what I just got from Dish Tech Support. I will try to reset the DVR later today (slim chances though as I already did this several times) but the cable suggestions are far from providing a reasonable fix. 
Maybe the new software will fix the problem and they are hoping my DVR gets it today...

------------------------------
Dear ,
Thank you for your email. We apologize for any inconvenience this issue has caused. To clear the distortion, please perform the following steps: 
1. Press the Menu button on your remote control.
• Select System Setup
• Select Installation
• Select System Information
2. Your current software version is ______. 
3. Reset the receiver by holding the power button on the front of the receiver for 10 seconds. The receiver will reset and acquire satellite signal. Once this is complete verify the distortion has cleared. 
If distortion has not cleared, please continue:
4. Verify the connections between the receiver and the TV, are tight.
5. Change the channel on the TV, not the receiver, to channel 10, then back to 3, 4, or the input it was set on if using RCA cables. 
• If this is a TV2 location then change the TV up or down 2 channels, then back to 21, 60, 73, or the channel the TV is normally set to receive satellite programming. 
The following steps require moving cables. If you are not comfortable moving cables please call our customer service number at 1-800-333-3474 for further assistance. 
6. Connect the TV directly to the receiver bypassing all splitters and other devices connected. 
7. Connect a new cable between the TV and receiver. 
8. Connect the receiver to a different TV, if available. 
9. Plug the receiver into an outlet in another room. This may require the use of an extension cord.
Your business is greatly appreciated and we thank you for allowing us to be of assistance to you. If you have further questions you can respond to this e-mail or access our online technical support at the following link: http://tech.dishnetwork.com/departmental_content/techportal/index.shtml 
A Technical Service Representative is available via live chat 24 hours a day, 7 days per week regarding your concerns. Please click the following link to use this option. http://tech.dishnetwork.com/departm...al/content/tech/techchatadvcustformrf23.shtml 
Thank you,

DISH Network Technical E-care
** Please include all previous correspondence when replying. **


----------



## moman19

What is this hoop jumping supposed to cure? The letter mentions "distortion". This does not appear to be related to the audio DROPOUT problem reported by folks in this thread.

True, there may be several different issues going on in this thread, but I see no mention of distortion. The audio dropout issue appears to be related to the EHD and not AC power, cabling or analog TV channels. In my case the issue is easily duplicated on two completely different systems by moving the EHD between two DVRs in my home.


----------



## vis_vis

moman19 said:


> What is this hoop jumping supposed to cure? The letter mentions "distortion". This does not appear to be related to the audio DROPOUT problem reported by folks in this thread.
> 
> True, there may be several different issues going on in this thread, but I see no mention of distortion. The audio dropout issue appears to be related to the EHD and not AC power, cabling or analog TV channels. In my case the issue is easily duplicated on two completely different systems by moving the EHD between two DVRs in my home.


Well, I have no idea what they mean unless they read it as an audio distortion???...

My conversation with them in the past almost two months was about audio issues with 5.11 and then 5.12.

The only "fix" they gave me was the one I posted.... although I am sure this would fix nothing.


----------



## moman19

vis_vis said:


> .....The only "fix" they gave me was the one I posted.... although I am sure this would fix nothing.


Thanks for the info. I agree, it's a pretty useless "fix". Probably one of the scripts that the tier 1 folks read off to first-time callers with picture issues as they try to connect their SD receivers to the antenna terminals of their B&W Dumont TVs.


----------



## SteveRS

I get the audio hiccups on the DVR 622 internal hard drive and two external hard drives. The audio dropout is so brief it is more of a hic than a hiccup.
I get about 3 per hour.

Bummer!
Went back to recordings of movies made one year ago and had audio dropouts every 5 or 10 seconds.
Totally unwatchable. Thanks Dish Network.


----------



## Grandude

I'm getting audio hiccups now and can't be sure if it started with 511 or 512 but I think it started with 512. Seems to happen a lot when switching from a live or recorded program to a commercial. Most of my viewing is off the internal hard drive.


----------



## moman19

Grandude said:


> I'm getting audio hiccups now.......... Most of my viewing is off the internal hard drive.


Agreed. The issue is most obvious, severe and frequent via the EHD. But it is also occurring on some HD channels in real time. Just not as bad. This started with 5.11. Before that, the EHD was flawless.


----------



## mulder5000

After talking with Dish CS for what seemed like an eternity, they decided the only thing to do was replace my 622 with a different one.
Will this resolve the issue, or are all 622/722's with 5.12 experiencing the audio dropouts? I don't want to lose all my recordings and timers if the problem will remain...


----------



## ChuckA

It seems only a limited number of receivers are seeing these issues. Neither of mine have problems. You can offload your recordings to an EHD to same them. Not much you can do with timers except write them down.


----------



## mulder5000

ChuckA said:


> You can offload your recordings to an EHD to same them.


If I offload my recordings to an EHD, will I be able to view them on the new reciever, or are the recordings locked down to everything but the original receiver?


----------



## moman19

I would wait for the fix rather than swap receivers, if this is your only issue. Especially when there is no guarantee the swap will fix anything.


----------



## ChuckA

mulder5000 said:


> If I offload my recordings to an EHD, will I be able to view them on the new reciever, or are the recordings locked down to everything but the original receiver?


You can use the same EHD on any supported receiver registered to your account. Each dish account has a household key assigned. Each receiver gets the household key and they can use the EHD with the same household key. The recordings on the EHD are locked to the household key not to a specific receiver.


----------



## PRIME1

I just got the 6.10 release last night to my 722 but unfortunately the audio dropout persists. I didn't have much time to test it out this morning, but I can report that I did still have the issue when watching my locals delayed.


----------



## vis_vis

PRIME1 said:


> I just got the 6.10 release last night to my 722 but unfortunately the audio dropout persists.


Excellent :-( I was hoping 6.10 will fix the audio issue but apparently I put too much trust in this. I can't believe they are not capable to fix this after two months. Wasted money on HD locals I cannot watch, that's what I call good business practice.


----------



## PRIME1

Maybe you will have better luck than me. I haven't seen any other posts regarding this issue and 6.10 so I'm still clinging to the hope that it's just my machine and another reboot (or two) will fix the issue. 

If not then I too am very disappointed that this is the second release that has not fixed this issue. I miss my version 4.


----------



## treesyjo

I am also having audio problems on my VIP622... sometimes the sound is choppy and sometimes it cuts out completely. Sometimes it happens during recorded shows and sometimes it happens on live TV if it is delayed. It seems to be related to watching an HD channel (recorded or live). Rebooting the receiver always fixes it... until it happens again. And it only happens on my downstairs tv. I can have zero sound downstairs but I can watch TV upstairs with no problem. This started around the first part of July... and it is really annoying. I haven't called tech support because I figure they'll just offer to send a replacement and I have way too many recorded shows to give up my receiver. I am hoping a fix comes soon.


----------



## Todd H

These audio dropouts are driving me crazy. I've tried everything to make them stop but they still continue. I get one about every two minutes. Annoying.


----------



## moman19

Todd H said:


> These audio dropouts are driving me crazy. I've tried everything to make them stop but they still continue. I get one about every two minutes. Annoying.


Other than switch service providers, there is little we can do until a fix is generated.

Who knows if/when that may occur?


----------



## Ron Barry

Well this definitely seems to be localized. I don't have this issue at all with my 722 on 610 or previous versions. For the people that are having the issue lets see if we can possible locate a commonality. Please provide the following info.

*Receiver Model:* 622 or 722 
*Hardware Version (Production version):* (Last letter of the code usually located on the back of the receiver) 
*Connection Type:* Optical, HDMI, RCA
*Channels you experience it on:* Report the channels you are seeing this on. For recorded channels report those too. 
How often do you get the experience: Is is happening one show a day? All Shows? etc. 
*When you rewind or Jump Back does is it repeatable?*
*When did you first notice it?* What version of software and Date if possible

If you are experiencing the issue with HDMI or optical and you have RCA hooks ups in the same configuration, when you change to RCA does the problem still occur?

Anything else you think might be important. Please sound off again even if you repeat yourself and try and answer the questions above. This is an attempt to try see if a pattern emerges.

This is definitely a localized problem from what I can tell so it is going to be one that will be hard to track down and fix so the more details and the more info we provide here the better. One data point I have is that both Moman and myself were watching the Allstar home run derby. He had audio breakup and I did not. We seem to have similar configuration. 722 to Pioneer receiver using optical. Though our receiver might be different. So the more info the better.


----------



## Todd H

*Receiver Model:* 622 
*Hardware Version (Production version):* F? (not sure if I looked at the right number)
*Connection Type:* Tried all three...Optical, HDMI, and RCA, dropouts on all three
*Channels you experience it on:* Every channel and every recorded program
*How often do you get the experience:* Every show and occurs at least once every one-two minutes
*When you rewind or Jump Back does is it repeatable?* It is repeatable


----------



## mulder5000

*Receiver Model:*
622
*Hardware Revision:*
Don't know
*Connection Type:*
TV1 Optical to Bose Lifestyle 28, TV2 coax straight into Olevia LCD tv, using the built-in tv speakers
*Channels you experience it on:*
Sat Delivered HD KTVI FOX 2 and HD KDNL ABC 30
*How often do you get the experience:*
Every day. It happens on Fox once a minute on most programs, but 5-8 times a minute during the local news. I do not watch much on ABC, but when I have I've only noticed it once per 15 minutes or so. I have not noticed it on any other channels. As mentioned before, only occurs on delayed or recorded programs.
*When you rewind or Jump Back does is it repeatable:*
No, it does not happen in the same spot, but will happen in spots that previously worked fine
*Other Information:*
The dropouts happen on both TV1 and TV2. When it drops out on TV1, I might miss a full second or two of audio, but TV2 only misses half a word. I'm guessing the longer delay has something to do with the optical cable on TV1, not a problem with the 622.
I'm located in St. Louis and am getting signals from 110, 118.75, 119, and 129.


----------



## rexa

I came to this forum because of a different issue, but then realized I was seeing this problem too. Over the last few days I ran some tests and have a clearer idea now. My observations match many others, but some people seem to have problems with things that are fine for me.

*Receiver Model:* 622
*Hardware Version*: J
*Connection Type:* Optical, RCA
*Channels you experience it on*: Local TV channels through Satellite feed -- only if HD and Dolby Digital sound. Only seen commonly on playback of recorded channels that match these requirements.
*How often do you get the experience*: Frequently in any recording of the right type of broadcast, but it has some relationship to the actual programming.
*When you rewind or Jump Back does is it repeatable?* I have not seen any difference with jumping back.
*When did you first notice it?* I just realized what it was and defined it better, but I think I have seen it a few weeks back, so 511, 512 seems right.

*Symptoms:* I think I have seen a few audio problems over the last few weeks, occasionally while watching broadcast realtime, but this particular problem from recording certain programs is repeatable.

The symptom is audio droputs, about a syllable in length, and occuring in bursts, with the drops from one to several seconds apart. The material being recorded clearly relates as a cause. I have been making recordings of a local news channel in my testing. One of the worst cases of dropouts was in a certain advertising spot for the local news program. During this ad there were a whole bunch of drops, then nothing in the next ad. I recorded the same ad hours later in another test on a later news broadcast and saw the same badness on playback.

For the problem, the recorded channel must be HD and Dolby Digital (AC-3) audio. The local news seems to be a good place to find the right conditions, but I think certain major network HD shows have the same conditions. Most low-res HD is ok and any show with PL II audio is ok. I have only seen the problem on local channels through the satellite. I have recorded the same programs OTA with no problems. Any SD or low-res HD seems to be fine. I only see the problems on playback of a recording and I watched the program without seeing anything bad while I was recording what came out bad on playback.

My receiver is a Denon AVR-1603. While it is handling the optical feed from the 622 it has an LCD display that will show either DOLBY D or PL II. For the Dolby D there is also a LED light that shows when it is seeing a Dolby D stream. When I watch a bad recording, I can clearly see the Dolby LED go out every time I hear a dropout. The DOLBY D on the LCD never changes (I assume the drops are too short), but the LED goes out everytime. So the audio stream from the 622 is clearly missing or bad in the drops.

I have also listened to the RCA stereo audio from the 622. The audio drops may be slightly different, but they are essentially the same and all in the same places.

Never a problem if the show's audio is PL II. Whole programs are ok with Dolby D, but it seems the video content matters too. I am guessing the video must be 1080 or 720 to see it. I don't know of anyway to identify what is in the video stream that I am receiving. I think the actual visual content matters too although it is hard to see a clear pattern. The "come and go" of the dropouts does seem to correlate to changes in what is on the screen.

For me, the problem playbacks always seem to have the same problems in the same places. Skipping the recorded material in playback doesn't seem to change anything.

For me, in my recent tests, I have only seen the problem on recorded programs when played back. In a test with the news program, I split my recording of the 30-minute show into 3 10-minute periods. 1) I recorded the local from the Dish HD satellite channel, 2) I recorded the same program on my OTA channel, 3) I recorded the same program from the Dish SD satellite channel. -- Only number 1 had problems, and not as I watched real time, only in parts of recorded program.

So for this particular group of symptoms, my guess is some kind of issue with handling high bandwidth video and Dolby AC-3 audio, but requiring some complication from E* encoding the local programming and sending it up and back.

I could probably capture example video (like the ad I mentioned above) into a clip and post a compressed version somewhere, if that would help the cause. If E* or someone was willing to pay for a hard drive, I could probably capture an example on the ED connection and send the drive somewhere. But I would think they should be able to see it on any of the 622/722 if they capture the local news coming down from KGO 7 in San Francisco. Every 11:30 AM or 6 PM broadcast I have recorded has shown the problems.


----------



## PRIME1

*Receiver Model:* 722 
*Hardware Version (Production version):* unknown 
*Connection Type:* Optical to a Philips surround sound receiver
*Channels you experience it on:* 
Local HD channels WRAL 5 and WRAZ 50 (because these are what I watch most)

*How often do you get the experience:* The news is where I really see the problem. Every morning when I back it up to catch the weather forecast the problem is there.

*When you rewind or Jump Back does is it repeatable?* Yes it is repeatable but not in the same spot(s).

*When did you first notice it?* 5.10 never had the issue before then


----------



## mulder5000

I mentioned in my earlier post that the local news on the KTVI FOX 2 was where I experienced the most problems. It might be worth noting that the news is not actually filmed in HD. It's upconverted somewhere (the local broadcast, the satellite, or my receiver) before it gets to my TV screen. Other non-HD shows like repeats of Friends or the Simpsons still have the audio dropouts, but not at the same frequency as the news.
KSDK NBC 5 does film and broadcast their news in HD. I have never experienced an audio dropout on this news broadcast or any other program on this channel.
The only other channel I have dropouts on is KDNL ABC 30, but they don't have a news program so I can't compare it to FOX.


----------



## moman19

Ron, Thanks for running with this.

Receiver Model: 622 and 722. Issue is present on both.
Hardware Version (Production version): Unknown and
Connection Type: Optical and HDMI. Dropouts are simultaneously heard on TV (HDMI) and audio system (optical).
Channels you experience it on: Most obvious and intolerable on recordings stored on my EHD that were made prior to rel 5.11. Also present on Local Fox and ABC HD programs via sat 118 in real time, but less frequent drops.
How often do you get the experience: Easily reproduced via EHD programs I have stored. Real time occurances more seldom. Perhaps 1 every 10 minutes. Usually occurs in clusters.
When you rewind or Jump Back does is it repeatable? Absolutely. But the dropout may move slightly. If I hit replay a few times I may actually get to hear the entire word. Keep in mind the voids are very brief. Perhaps a syllable at a time.
When did you first notice it? This absoluelty started with 5.11. All my old RAVE concerts are now unlistenable.

This issue is so easily reproduced, I will gladly play if for you, on demand, over the phone. You will "see" what we're all reporting.


----------



## rexa

rexa said:


> Only number 1 had problems, and not as I watched real time, only in parts of recorded program.


Just now I have had the same evening news broadcast on the local downlink channel and I have heard several of the audio dropouts in realtime without any recording at all. The Dolby light on my audio receiver goes out with the drops like before on my description of playback problems.

So now I am questioning if I was correct about my observation that there were no drops in realtime. I didn't notice any while I was recording the other day, but either I was wrong about that, or it happens sometimes.

This matches more with what others have reported.


----------



## Patent geek

rexa said:


> The Dolby light on my audio receiver goes out with the drops like before on my description of playback problems.


Just wanted to confirm I'm seeing similar Dolby-receiver-light behavior. Right now I'm watching the opening ceremonies, DVRed off of my local NBC-HD feed (which comes from 61.5). At least once every 5 minutes I'm getting glitches--not clean dropouts, but a multi-channel gurgle or buzz. When this occurs, I see the 5.1 channel indicator on my YSP-4000 soundbar drop down to two channels.

Glitches appear to be repeatable in the same spot on the recording when I hit skip back.

I've got a 722 running L6.10 over HDMI. I've seen similar issues on my local Fox-HD channel since 5.10--haven't watched much NBC since I got Dish installed a month ago.

Edit: I started recording OTA in addition to satellite, and verified a dropout in the same exact place on both recordings (as the team from Jordan was entering the stadium).


----------



## Patent geek

Further observations: I hooked my OTA antenna directly to the OTA input of my Samsung LN40A650, and I'm still getting frequent audio dropouts on NBC with the 722 entirely out of the picture. Picture appears fine during the vast majority of the audio dropouts--which you wouldn't expect from a typical transmission strength issue, since the video signal is far more bandwidth-hungry.

So I'm seeing audio dropout problems on NBC from 61.5 through the 722, from OTA through the 722, and from OTA *without* the 722.

I'm beginning to seriously wonder if there isn't some problem with the Dolby 5.1 encoding NBC is using. I don't remember having these problems watching Wimbledon, and I don't believe Wimbledon was broadcast in surround (though I'm not certain).


----------



## moman19

*IMPORTANT FINDING*

It's Sunday morning and I'm watching FOX News Sunday right now, delayed about 10 minutes behind real time. Audio is cutting in and out real bad. I'm also recording NBC Olympics at the same time. When I hit the SWAP button to check out the Olympics there are no dropouts (I never hear them on the NBC channel). I then return to Fox (which returns it to real time as recordings don't stick) and the dropouts are completely gone.

Here's the good part: If I hit the SKIP BACK button a few times, the dropouts return. When I hit the VIEW LIVE button, they vanish. Very easy to duplicate on demand. This is on my 622 running 5.12.


----------



## treesyjo

Let me start by saying that I'm pretty technically challenged... I'm an unmarried woman who lives alone and did NOT set up my Dish/TV. That being said, I'll try to answer your questions to the best of my ability.

Receiver Model: 622 
Hardware Version (Production version): I think it is G?
Connection Type: i know it isn't optical and I'm pretty sure it isn't HDMI. I think I have HDMI connecting my TV and my DVD player.
Channels you experience it on: Up until the other day, I've only experienced this while viewing recorded shows... and it seems to be on HD channels. It has happened on TLC-HD, ESPN-HD, A&E-HD. If I watch a show recorded on those channels, as soon as I try to skip ahead, audio either drops out completely or it gets choppy. The other day, it did it on live TV while watching ESPN-HD when I tried to skip backwards while watching live. Once audio drops, it affects everything; recorded or live. I have a non-HD TV connected to TV2 upstairs and everything is fine on that TV. I can have no sound downstairs and have sound upstairs. So I'm assuming it is something to do with the relationship between Dish and my HD TV (Sylvania LC420SS8). The problem corrects itself with a hard reset/reboot of my receiver... but will immediately do it again if i perform the above mentioned actions.
How often do you get the experience: happens all the time, with the above situations.
When you rewind or Jump Back does is it repeatable? I'm not sure... I don't rewind or jump back all the often but it definitely does it when I FF or skip ahead.
When did you first notice it? While I've had this TV/Dish setup since end of Nov 07, I noticed this starting around July 1st or so.


I appreciate any help. I haven't called Dish tech help because I'm sure they'll just suggest they replace the receiver and I have way too many recorded programs to try a replacement that might not even work. Thanks!


----------



## mulder5000

To do a bit more testing, I put my 622 in single tuner mode and turned on both TV1 and TV2. TV2 was basically just an exact duplicate of TV1 (only cropped and downconverted so it fit in the SD 4:3 screen). Every time a droupout occured on TV1, it also occured on TV2. The audio came back sooner on TV2, but, like I mentioned before, that's probably due to the audio receiver.
I also noticed a much higher rate of dropouts on ABC than I usually do. When I've watched Wipeout this summer, I've notice 2-4 dropouts over the entire show. Last night, during The Mole (recorded and watched an hour after it aired), there were times when it was almost unwatchable. I've never watched The Mole before, so I don't know if this was normal for this program or just a fluke. Maybe Wipeout is just a fluke with it's low number of dropouts?


----------



## uconndude

I have audio issues as well with my VIP 622....but...
I lose audio and the only way to get back is to reboot.
Hate doing that!

I also have freeze frames from time to time. It freezes and skips a few frames on live TV usually.
Has anyone else experienced this?
Is this possibly related to my DVR - it is brand new - or due to the software version I am on (L512).
Possible to force download the latest software?
Any suggestions?


----------



## uconndude

I have seen similar audio issues.
Total loss of audio - until I restart the VIP 622.
Also, from time to time, loss of video+audio for a second or two, followed by a jump forward.
Anyone seen similar issues?
Possible to force the download of the latest software?
THis is a brand new VIP 622, is this possibly related to the DVR and not software?
I am at L512.
Thx


----------



## moman19

uconndude said:


> I have seen similar audio issues.
> Total loss of audio - until I restart the VIP 622.
> Also, from time to time, loss of video+audio for a second or two, followed by a jump forward.
> Anyone seen similar issues?
> Possible to force the download of the latest software?
> THis is a brand new VIP 622, is this possibly related to the DVR and not software?
> I am at L512.
> Thx


Current software releases do not address this issue I have audio dropout issues on my 622 running 5.12 and my 722 running 6.10. In my case, the issue is worse when I play a recording on the EHD (External Hard Drive).

Hopefully. someone is working feverishly on a cure.


----------



## shortspark

I have the same problem but it only happened once. The audio simply died on my 622 which connected to an Onkyo receiver via HDMI, which in turn is connected to my 720p projector, also via HDMI. The problem was fixed with a hard re-boot and only happened once. I don't know what I did, such as going backwards, pause or what but it only happened that one time.


----------



## kstuart

I received L612 on my 622, and so far the sort of things that would cause the audio problems ( non-moving graphics on delayed or recorded 720p satellite-delivered HD Locals ) have not caused the problems. 

I tried my recordings, and only one had audio dropouts, and it is possible that in that one case, those are part of the recording, rather than due to playback.

It's also possible that some changes have been made in the uplink of 720p channels to help deal with the problem (which would cause old recordings to remain problematic, while preventing the problem in the future).

UPDATE: Just had a black screen with white type and the audio dropped out for a moment, so the problem is still there...


----------



## mulder5000

kstuart said:


> UPDATE: Just had a black screen with white type and the audio dropped out for a moment, so the problem is still there...


I can confirm 6.12 did not fix the audio dropout problem.


----------



## dbconsultant

kstuart said:


> UPDATE: Just had a black screen with white type and the audio dropped out for a moment, so the problem is still there...


If you were watching the Olympics, the black screen thing has been happening on almost all of the Olympics we have dvr'd - NBCHD, UNIHD, USAHD and Oxygen SD. Generally, it's just a black screen lasting maybe half a second while the audio plays on. On Oxygen, the black screen had the word "BLANKED" in white type on it. I think this is an Olympics issue not a software issue.


----------



## kstuart

No, I was referring to a commercial where the screen was black, except for text in white type saying stuff like "available now with 48 month lease option..." etc.


----------



## treesyjo

Am I correct to assume that Dish has not addressed this issue? Has anyone received a replacement receiver that corrected their problem?


----------



## moman19

Issue? Problem? What problem? 

But seriously..... if you're asking about the audio dropouts, the answer is "no" as of today. It's still broken. I'm not sure if anyone really knows what rel 6.12 fixed that was broken in 6.10. 

Has anyone seen the release notes?


----------



## uconndude

Has anyone seen issues where the audio is completely lost while watching LIVE TV via VIP 622. The only way to restore audio then is to do a reboot.

Happens at least once a day and has become painful

Is this a potential problem with the DVR or the software?


----------



## kstuart

uconndude said:


> Has anyone seen issues where the audio is completely lost while watching LIVE TV via VIP 622. The only way to restore audio then is to do a reboot.
> 
> Happens at least once a day and has become painful
> 
> Is this a potential problem with the DVR or the software?


I'm looking for someone to write a bot that will reply to every post on every DBS Forum with:



> Which specific channels ?


----------



## Ron Barry

Sorry guys.. been on vacation for a week. I updated the title to include version L6.10 and L6.12. Kstuart makes a good point above. Try and include as much information as possible when reporting the issues. Please use post #67 in this thread as a template. 

I know some may think this is a wide spread issue, but based on what I have read is that is appears to be localized and some users are experiencing it while other are not so any details might provide the clue the triggers an Engineer to find the root cause. These type of issues that are not wide spread seem to be random are very hard to track down so keep the constructive experiences coming.


----------



## moman19

Ron,

While this audio-dropout issue may not be universal, there should be enough details from diverse subs over the last 90 posts to point someone in the right direction. I for one, see this on my 622 and 722 and it is easily reproduced on demand. It's most obvious when playing content stored on my Maxtor One Touch drive, but is not limited to the EHD. It clearly started with 5.11 and I'll MAIL my hardware to an engineer if he promises to look closely and get this bug fixed.

The same shows fail in th same places ALL THE TIME. I can't get it NOT to fail.

Example, I have a Fox show that I want to archive to the EHC. But if I send it to the EHD I will corrupt the audio. So I'm forced to keep content on the local DVR drive, or lose it.

Programs that suffer this issue have the same common attributes:

1. Must be HD video (some report is must contain DD5.1)
2. Programs stored on the EHD that were recorded prior to rel 5.11
3. HD programs from the local Local Fox affiliate.


----------



## jadye527

Does anyone know how to fix external stereo audio sync issues? I only have a problem when I am watching a DVR show and normally only after I pause or skip forward. Then I get the lip syncing issue.


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## plwilliams

I'm new to E*, having recently come over from D*, but I'm getting a little concerned about the quality of the E* broadcast. I have a 722 and really like the DVR, and while the PQ is great, I have been getting quite a few audio drop outs while watching the Olympics in HD. These are just the audio and thay last approximately 10-20 seconds, then everything is fine. I also have a 322 receiver that is not experiencing any loss of the audio. Is this typical of HD, or just HD from E*, or maybe the 722? I hate to say it, but right now I'm beginning to question my decision to change to E*:nono2:


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## kstuart

plwilliams said:


> I'm new to E*, having recently come over from D*, but I'm getting a little concerned about the quality of the E* broadcast. I have a 722 and really like the DVR, and while the PQ is great, I have been getting quite a few audio drop outs while watching the Olympics in HD. These are just the audio and thay last approximately 10-20 seconds, then everything is fine. I also have a 322 receiver that is not experiencing any loss of the audio. Is this typical of HD, or just HD from E*, or maybe the 722? I hate to say it, but right now I'm beginning to question my decision to change to E*:nono2:


I have not gotten any dropouts during the Olympics (NBC).

This thread is about dropouts in FOX and ABC channels.

Note that Dish provides hundreds of network channels and so your particular local broadcaster may have audio dropout problems.

Also, intermittent problems can be caused by overheating. Dish receivers should not be in a closed cabinet. If the top back right of your receiver is painfully hot, it is not sufficiently ventilated.


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## moman19

While I too, experience dropouts on ABC and Fox in LIVE mode, let's not assume it is limited to only those two networks. Different subs in different cities may experience the issue on different channels. For example, I experience the most severe drop outs when viewing recorded shows from the EHD. But then, it's not all shows recorded on that same drive.

My 622 is located out in the open and runs cool. As expected, I got 6.12 last nite but the dropouts remain.


----------



## plwilliams

kstuart said:


> I have not gotten any dropouts during the Olympics (NBC).
> 
> This thread is about dropouts in FOX and ABC channels.
> 
> Note that Dish provides hundreds of network channels and so your particular local broadcaster may have audio dropout problems.
> 
> Also, intermittent problems can be caused by overheating. Dish receivers should not be in a closed cabinet. If the top back right of your receiver is painfully hot, it is not sufficiently ventilated.


Thanks for the response and sorry I picked the wrong thread to post to. My bad, I hadn't read that it was only for FOX & ABC.

Anyway, my 722 is in the open and has plenty of space all around it and is not hot to the touch. You have a point about it maybe being a local channel issue, their SD audio is fine, but I'll watch closely to see if it happens on other channels.


----------



## Ron Barry

*Moderator Note*

Guys this thread is not only for FOX and ABC. The purpose of this thread and the reason I split it off from the main experience thread was so that we can tried and see if we can possible find some commonality. Please continue to post all Audio related experiences here (Especially if they appear to be reoccurring and frequent)


----------



## phrelin

moman19 said:


> I have experienced the following:
> 
> Occasional audio dropouts apparent on recorded episodes of House from this past season on Fox. (I'm still catching up) If I skip back, the dropout will be gone. Also, recorded episodes of Nightline on ABC can sometimes sound garbled, as if speaking under water throughout the show.


I continue to experience infrequently both the momentary dropout and the "under water" effect. I rarely watch anything live. The dropout happened last night on TNT. It doesn't happen with SD. It more frequently happens with locals. Personally, I think it's a compression related issue. But that's just a gut feeling.


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## rexa

I swapped some emails with Dish support a bit over a week ago. I pointed them to this thread for some details.

FWIW, I got this reply on 8/14:
Thank you for your email. We apologize for any inconvenience this issue has caused. Thank you for providing the information for our engineering department. They are currently working towards a resolution for this issue. Unfortunately, we do not have a status report for this situation at this time. Generally these issues are resolved via software information sent directly to the receiver. Please remember to turn off your receiver when you are not watching TV, so that it can receive the update when it becomes available.

I'd feel better if they said that engineering had actually identified the problem, but at least they seem to be aware and no longer ducking with arbitrary "try this" kinds of replies.


----------



## Ron Barry

moman19 said:


> Ron,
> 
> While this audio-dropout issue may not be universal, there should be enough details from diverse subs over the last 90 posts to point someone in the right direction. I for one, see this on my 622 and 722 and it is easily reproduced on demand. It's most obvious when playing content stored on my Maxtor One Touch drive, but is not limited to the EHD. It clearly started with 5.11 and I'll MAIL my hardware to an engineer if he promises to look closely and get this bug fixed.
> 
> The same shows fail in th same places ALL THE TIME. I can't get it NOT to fail.
> 
> Example, I have a Fox show that I want to archive to the EHC. But if I send it to the EHD I will corrupt the audio. So I'm forced to keep content on the local DVR drive, or lose it.
> 
> Programs that suffer this issue have the same common attributes:
> 
> 1. Must be HD video (some report is must contain DD5.1)
> 2. Programs stored on the EHD that were recorded prior to rel 5.11
> 3. HD programs from the locaLocal Fox affiliate.


Putting on my software engineering hat on.

I need to go back and re-read this thread, but so far I have not found a common pattern from what I have read that narrows the experience. You mention it is easily reproduced at while. Is their a national channel and program that I can watch that shows what you are seeing? The point I was making that though people in the wild can reproduce this on an individual basis, this does not mean that a E* can reproduce the issue on his test platform. Example.. I can't personally reproduce it and I have tried.

Remember.. When you reported this and mentioned you were watching the homerun derby, I was also watching the derby and I did not have any audio issues so at this moment I am still perplexed and that is why I indicate more information the better and the more details because since I am not on the other side of the fence (The engineer looking at this thread) I can only assume that the more info the better.

As for your common attributes you listed. My comments below are...

1. Is this only on HD video? I have not seen anyone report it on SD but we are all heavy HD watchers since there is much more HD to watch so I am not sure if it is only HD. Perhaps it is DD 5.1 as part of the trigger.

2. I am not having any issues with my EHD on the current version watching both old and new.

3. No issues with my Fox affiliate. Though in the past I have seen this in the LA area. (Long time ago and Fox definitely was the major issue with me then).

Others have reported audio related issues on National channels while others have not. From the minimal reports of production runs and the fact these are reported both on the 622 and 722, I think it lesson the possibility these are a production run related issue.

At this point, I personally am scratching my head and will post further thoughts after re-reading this thread because I am still baffelled at how some are having the issues and others are not. Possible audio receiver related but then people mentioned that they also see it on RCA if I recall.

One thing that I find odd.

1) It does not appear to be localized. People are reporting issues with both local and national channels. 
2) Seems to be stream related because of reports that when people jump back they can reproduce the problme. 
3) It does appear to be happening more with local content.

The odd thing I do find with your experiences moman.. I don't recall anyone indicating that audio corrupts when copying from receiver to EHD. The receivers do not do any encoding of audio and the EHD archiving is just a moving of the content file so I would consider the issue of audio corruption on a archive to be different than the experiences of audio issues on a delayed or buffered show. Also, I find it really odd that just audio is being corrupted. If there was some corruption occuring on the archiving I would expect it to exhibit itself both on video and audio. Does the corruption go away when you restore the content to your receiver or once is it is there it is always there.


----------



## moman19

Ron,

Great questions. Not sure where to start so I'll just dive in.

*I only see (hear) this on HD channels. Might be because that's what I mostly watch these days.
*Audio drops briefly, usually just a syllable of a word. It's like momentary muting.
*Video is completely unaffected when audio drops.
*This is most obvious on ABC and Fox shows delay viewed on DVR or stored on EHD (Maxtor One-Touch).
*The worse offenders are my RAVE concerts that I recorded months back and later stored on the EHD. I can no longer play them due to the constant audio drops. They were once perfect. Video is totally unaffected by the dropouts.
*When I hit the replay button the dropouts are not always in exactly the same place. Usually close, but not always in the exact spot.
*Audio dropouts are simultaneous via HDMI (to the display) and Optical (to my sound system).
* My DD5.1 pilot ight usually flashes when audio drops. No surprise here. It acts as if I have momentarily removed the optical cable.
*If I move the EHD from my 622 to my 722 the same shows exhibit dropouts in the same general places.
*I have never tried restoring a "damaged" stored program back to the DVR for fear it will forever be stored in the damaged state. I guess I could try this as a test but I was hoping a fix would come down the pike that would just resolve the matter. This worked just fine when I was running 4.49.
*I have been watching much Olympic action lately, so I have no dropouts to report on that channel. Other than ABC and Fox network shows I haven't really noticed the issue elsewhere on a national channel. Perhaps this is a clue: St. Louis DMA is served by the 118 sat but that fails to explain the issue with RAVE which was on 129. I also don't know if the issue appears on an OTA-recorded event on Fox or ABC. There's just not much to watch there at the moment. 

All I know is that when the fall season starts, my wife will want to toss the entire system out the window when dropouts occur on her favorite Prime Time shows......and she's usually way more tolerant/oblivious to this than I am. If she notices it, it must be bad.


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## snappingturtle

rexa said:


> I swapped some emails with Dish support a bit over a week ago. I pointed them to this thread for some details.
> 
> FWIW, I got this reply on 8/14:
> Thank you for your email. We apologize for any inconvenience this issue has caused. Thank you for providing the information for our engineering department. They are currently working towards a resolution for this issue. Unfortunately, we do not have a status report for this situation at this time. Generally these issues are resolved via software information sent directly to the receiver. Please remember to turn off your receiver when you are not watching TV, so that it can receive the update when it becomes available.
> 
> I'd feel better if they said that engineering had actually identified the problem, but at least they seem to be aware and no longer ducking with arbitrary "try this" kinds of replies.


Possibly. I'll just point out that what you received is a canned response. I've received that exact paragraph from them on a completely unrelated issue. It may very well be accurate, but it is unfortunately a canned response.


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## teachsac

kstuart said:


> This thread is about dropouts in FOX and ABC channels.


Why? The thread title is audio related issues. While users are having problems with Fox and ABC, that is not the extent of the problem. I am also having, as are others, problems with DVR'd events from the MPEG4 nationals since 5.10. For example, I watched "Wedding Singer" last night off of Encore and I completely lost track of the drops after about a half hour.

S~


----------



## mulder5000

Ron,

Let me take a crack at this. Most of my answers are similar to moman, so I'll follow his format.


I only hear this on HD channels, but not all the content on these HD channels is HD
Audio dropouts are brief on TV2 (coax) and much longer on TV1 (optical). My guess is the longer length of the dropout is due to the audio receiver, not the 622
Video is unaffected
Have only noticed problems on ABC and FOX shows when delayed or recorded
No RAVE recordings, so I can't back moman up here.
My worst offender is the nightly news on FOX. It is not filmed in HD, but only the HD channel has problems.
If I rewind, the dropouts are not always in the same place
Audio dropouts are simultaneous via optical (TV1) and coax (TV2)
My audio receiver is hidden, so I've never checked if the DD5.1 light flashes. However, audio dropouts do occur on non-HD shows which, AFAIK, are not DD5.1
I do not have an EHD
I've watched a lot of the Olympics, but have never noticed a problem. Like moman, only FOX and ABC shows are affected. It's possible other channels I don't watch are affected. Like moman, I'm in the St. Louis area and get my local channels from 118.


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## Ron Barry

Excellent replies Mulder and Moman. I know you most likely have said it before in other forums but that really gave me a good feeling of your experiences.. Have you guys had any experiences relating to national channels with L6.12. If so, what channels? 

Anyone having audio issues with national channels.. If so, what channels are you seeing them on. I would like to try and reproduce the issues.


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## teachsac

Ron Barry said:


> Excellent replies Mulder and Moman. I know you most likely have said it before in other forums but that really gave me a good feeling of your experiences.. Have you guys had any experiences relating to national channels with L6.12. If so, what channels?
> 
> Anyone having audio issues with national channels.. If so, what channels are you seeing them on. I would like to try and reproduce the issues.


I've had quite a few problems with the MPEG4 nationals. It seems mostly with a combo of MPEG4/DD. I have DVR'd quite a few movies on Encores and various Starz, Maxes, and HBOs. Many drops. Watched Wedding Singer last night, continuous drops. Turned back to it later and watched it live not a drop. Watching live now with no drops. Only DVR'd. I haven't been having any drops on the MPEG2 channels. Watched a couple programs off TNT (Closer, Saving Grace) and no drops.

S~

This has been going on since 5.10


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## Dr. Cool

My setup is a ViP 622 connected via video component cables and audio TOSLINK (optical) to a Yamaha receiver HTR-5960 that sends video via component to a Sony KV-40XBR700 (1080i). It also has an alternate HDMI to DVI connection plus RCA audio for direct viewing (bypassing the Yamaha). Firmware is L5.12. Problem started with 5.10.
1) I have random audio dropouts only with HD channels, but not all of them. Noticed the problem with for example local PBS HD (OTA) and HDNet Movies (Dish). It happens only with programming that has high PQ. Never had problems for example with local FOX HD (OTA) or A&E HD (Dish) (PQ is not the best with these channels however).
2) Never have problems with SD channels.
3) Never have problems with upconverted shows in HD channels.
4) Dropouts happen both with DD 5.1 *AND* DD 2.0. Example: NOVA on PBS HD (OTA) is DD 2.0 and has frequent audio dropouts.
5) Could not yet confirm if the problem happens only with TOSLINK or if it's the same with RCA.
6) Do not have audio dropouts in any other circumstance (DVDs, SD channels, Media Center, etc.), so it's not a problem with my receiver or cabling.
7) Never observed the problem with live TV (although I rarely watch live programming, so evidence is not definitive).
8) Last week observed audio dropouts approximately every two minutes when watching a recorded NOVA show from PBS HD (OTA).
9) Dropouts would not repeat themselves after rewinding or stepping back. Meaning that the stream was not faulty, and the broadcast had not been interrupted.
10) Dropouts appear to follow an irregular cycle that ranges from 2 minutes to 30 minutes, depending on show.
11) Dropouts are noticeable but short (less than a second). I can easily hear them, but my wife, not being as discriminating, just takes them as "normal" broadcasting imperfections. She will only become aware of the problem when I tell her that it's happening. What could explain why so few subscribers complain about it.
12) Now the worst: I watched the same recorded episode of NOVA again yesterday (the one with dropouts every two minutes) and for my surprise I didn't have dropouts this time!!! Checked everything that could have changed, both in my 622 and my Yamaha. Nothing had changed *except* for having more free space on the hard disk. Before I had only 2 hours of free HD space, now I have about 8 hours available. I wonder if the dropouts could be the result of increased hard disk access time due -- who knows -- to increased file fragmentation or seek time.
12) Never had video problems. Only audio dropouts.
13) Will continue to test and report, now with firmware L6.12.


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## rexa

Ron Barry said:


> Putting on my software engineering hat on.
> 
> I need to go back and re-read this thread, but so far I have not found a common pattern from what I have read that narrows the experience.


Seems to me there are some variations and probably a few of the posts are unrelated, but there seems to be a common set of symptoms that reflect the same problem.

My post #70 in this thread still describes the main repeatable problems I am seeing. If I want an example of the problem, all I have to do is record the local news on ABC coming down from satellite. I don't watch Fox often enough to know if it is a problem here. I may try that if I get time.

All the recordings I have done were on the internal drive. Tonight I put a different ext drive on with a different controller and copied one of the bad recordings onto the external. Played from there still bad. Copied it onto the main drive again. Still bad. No noticeable changes. So I don't think moving a file between drives will have any effect.

If E* engineering is still in the dark, I could easily get good and bad recordings of similar programs (News at different times, with one from satellite and one from OTA) and send the drive to them.

It is very repeatable here.

I got 6.12 in the last couple days. It is still the same, or possibly a little worse.

Putting my software engineering hat on... I would still bet on some kind of bandwidth problem on HD with 5.1 audio that is exacerbated by something E* does when they grab the local channel and send it up and back by satellite, because that seems to be key in my repeatable case.

One question I can't answer is if the data that is saved on my HD is bad, or if it gets handled bad somehow on playback.


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## moman19

Sunday morning, I always try to watch Fox News Sunday. If I watch it live it will be fine. If I Pause the DVR for a few moments and then resume play, the dropouts occur. If I jump forward to live, the dropouts stop. Here's an example where I can demonstrate the issue on demand. No idea why it's so easy to duplicate the issue on that show or channel.


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## mulder5000

I haven't experienced dropouts on any national channels, but it's possible I only watch the "good" channels. I don't have the movie channels, so I can't comment on those.


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## Ron Barry

rexa said:


> My post #70 in this thread still describes the main repeatable problems I am seeing. If I want an example of the problem, all I have to do is record the local news on ABC coming down from satellite. I don't watch Fox often enough to know if it is a problem here. I may try that if I get time.


So Rexa. So I am clear on your experience. If you record the same thing on OTA vs. Dish HD you see this issue with your Dish HD channel but not your OTA. Hmm Not sure if I agree with the bandwidth given the problem is exhibited in your Dish HD (less bandwidth) than your OTA.

Is this 100% reproducable when your recorde the news. I do remember a while back having a similar experience with AI on Fox. For some reason that channel exhibited dropouts like described here but for sure I was able to jump back and get the drop out to occur in the same place all the time if I recall correctly.

I am suprised it seems to exhibit only on one channel but perhaps that particular shows audio stream as some slight difference to the others that the 722 is not handling correctly.

Also.. Are you seeing the same thing as Moman is regards to the problem appearing in the delayed playback and not live? If this is the case, this is another mystery since from my understanding is that with a DVR you are never really playing live you are always playing of the drive so I am not sure why there would be a difference.

By the way.. We get some excellent feedback here, but this thread had to be some Some of best feedback I have seen. Excellent job guys because given the random nature of this problem (I know some it is easily to reproduce but not all are seeing it) like I said the more input the better and this is most excellent input.


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## moman19

Ron,

I will conduct two tests and report back to you in a few days.

1. I will restore a program with dropouts from the EHD to the DVR to see if the dropouts remain or vanish.

2. I will record Fox News Sunday via the SAT and OTA to see if dropouts occur on both. Currently, I can only confirm dropouts via SAT. Last weeks's show is still on the DVR and the dropouts are obvious.


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## Todd H

My replacement 622 I received yesterday is showing signs of audio dropouts like my old 622 did. It happens on every channel no matter whether I'm listening through optical, HDMI, or RCA jacks.


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## rexa

Ron Barry said:


> So Rexa. So I am clear on your experience. If you record the same thing on OTA vs. Dish HD you see this issue with your Dish HD channel but not your OTA. Hmm Not sure if I agree with the bandwidth given the problem is exhibited in your Dish HD (less bandwidth) than your OTA.


There are occasional differences, but for the reproducible case, yes, local from sat has problems but OTA does not.



> Is this 100% reproducable when your recorde the news. I do remember a while back having a similar experience with AI on Fox. For some reason that channel exhibited dropouts like described here but for sure I was able to jump back and get the drop out to occur in the same place all the time if I recall correctly.


The content clearly matters -- what is on the screen affects when the dropouts happen -- but I have never recorded the local ABC news without seeing some dropouts.



> I am suprised it seems to exhibit only on one channel but perhaps that particular shows audio stream as some slight difference to the others that the 722 is not handling correctly.


It clearly seems to depend on both the video and audio. Dropouts come and go as the edit cuts change. There seems to be more likely drops on some generated graphics images, but not just that.



> Also.. Are you seeing the same thing as Moman is regards to the problem appearing in the delayed playback and not live? If this is the case, this is another mystery since from my understanding is that with a DVR you are never really playing live you are always playing of the drive so I am not sure why there would be a difference.


Yes, that has been my experience. I doubted myself once because I did see some drop outs in real time, but checking on other news tests, I did not see dropouts as I was recording, but saw many on playback, and they are always in the same places. Can't say they are exactly the same, but they may be. I also see them on both optical out and stereo RCA.



> By the way.. We get some excellent feedback here, but this thread had to be some Some of best feedback I have seen. Excellent job guys because given the random nature of this problem (I know some it is easily to reproduce but not all are seeing it) like I said the more input the better and this is most excellent input.


I used to work on these kinds of problems at work. I try to gather the best info I can.


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## rexa

I thought I'd make one post on some of the variations. 

Moman and I seem to be seeing very similar problems, plus some other posters. On the other hand there are others who see problems on many channels and other kinds of dropouts. I don't know if those are related to my problems or not.

I record premium channels and things like Discovery pretty often but am not seeing any of these problems on those channels. 

I do occasionally see different problems on the same ABC feed where I have my repeatable case. I have seen a few long audio dropouts -- around a minute or so. A couple times I was able to swap over to the OTA channel and that did not seem to have the audio problem while it was still happening on the satellite HD channel. I have also seen some long drops during the Olympics, but these may be unrelated. Never caught them in time to see if OTA was good or bad.

Occasionally I have seen the short dropouts while watching in realtime. This is not common, but it seems like the same problem symptoms and may be an extreme case of the same issue.

I am pretty sure I saw these dropouts in a recording of Hopkins I made off of the same ABC station a month or so back. Unfortunately I deleted it because it was so irritating to watch. I mention this just so it is clear that I think the problem exists on shows besides the news.

I made this post to point out some of the variations and differences here, but to keep it separate from the reproducible case.

I hope Moman gets his Rave recordings back when this finally gets resolved. I am wondering if the bad recordings on my drive are really ok, or not.


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## moman19

Funny. I never experience long dropouts. It's usually a cluster of many sub-second audio mutes. Each is perhaps just a syllable or a music beat. I have NOT missed a single syllable during the Olympics on NBC. That channel seems to behave. While the local NBC affiliate has other issues, dropouts are not one of them.

This is proving difficult to nail down across DMAs. But it is oh, so real and so distracting. I can only sum it up by stating it is easy to duplicate with Fox and ABC programs. Live seems fine, anything less than live (say delayed a few seconds) is bad and via EHD is the worse option of the three.


----------



## mulder5000

I've never experienced a long dropout, either. I do get clusters sometimes. Other times, it's only one. It seems it's either 1 or a bunch, never 2 or 3.
As rexa mentioned, this does happen on programs besides the news, but it never seems as bad. Recent shows I've noticed it on include The Mole and Wipeout. I went through almost the entire season finale of The Mole with maybe 2 dropouts. Then the last 5 minutes they came so frequently I just gave up on it.
I've never heard it on live tv, but as soon as it jumps back even a few seconds, the dropouts can start.
No OTA here, so I can't run any tests.


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## rexa

I recorded the local Fox news this evening. Saw a few dropouts, with the first batch on audio over a generated graphics map. 

So I do see it on both ABC and FOX here.


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## moman19

I'm experiencing dropouts in two scenarios that may or may not be related. No one, including myself can tell at this point.

Scenario 1: Whenever I play HD events stored on my EHD that were recorded before ver 5.xx, I experience severe audio-only dropouts. These are mostly Soundstage concerts from the VOOM Rave channel.

Scenario 2: Whenever I play HD events stored on my EHD that were recorded off ABC or Fox since ver 5.xx, I experience severe audio-only dropouts. I seldom hear these dropouts in LIVE mode, but they become apparent when I view a Fox or ABC show in delayed mode and they increase and become intolerable should I send one to the EHD.​
*Yesterday, I restored one of the "damaged" concerts to the DVR to see if the dropout status would resolve itself. Sadly, the dropouts remain. Therefore, restoring an event DOES NOT resolve the matter.*


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## mulder5000

I don't know if they are actually related, but could the audio dropouts be left over problems from the video issue that was introduced in 5.10 (or somewhere around there)?
Before that, I never had any audio/video problems, but with that release content became unwatchable when delayed or recorded, even if recorded before the update. The audio would drop out and the video would look like jumbled blocks, similar to rain fade. This happened on most HD channels I watched, but some were worse than others. They quickly released a fix that solved all the video problems, but it introduced the new audio only problems.
I've wondered to myself if their "fix" resolved 99% of the problems, but left a few unresolved. Most users would never experience these left over issues - we just happen to be the few unfortunate ones that do.
Anyway, I'm probably totally off on this seeing as how I have no background in it, but I wanted to throw it out there.


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## vis_vis

moman19 said:


> Funny. I never experience long dropouts. It's usually a cluster of many sub-second audio mutes. Each is perhaps just a syllable or a music beat. I have NOT missed a single syllable during the Olympics on NBC. That channel seems to behave. While the local NBC affiliate has other issues, dropouts are not one of them.
> 
> This is proving difficult to nail down across DMAs. But it is oh, so real and so distracting. I can only sum it up by stating it is easy to duplicate with Fox and ABC programs. Live seems fine, anything less than live (say delayed a few seconds) is bad and via EHD is the worse option of the three.


My VIP622 got the "turbo" 6.12 yesterday and want to report that the audio issues introduced by 5.12 are still there.

In the meantime (frustrated, after more than two months since this started), I put an external antenna and configured the OTA channels. NONE of the channels that have audio issues when coming from Dish (FOX, CBS, ABC, NBC) present audio issues when watched from OTA.

Last night I recorded (or time delayed) FOX news from Dish and OTA. The Dish broadcast has audio interruptions (1-2 seconds) every few minutes. OTA works fine.

This appears to be an issue mostly for the news broadcasts on these local HD channels, on NBC Olympic coverage the audio does not appear to drop.


----------



## moman19

vis_vis said:


> My VIP622 got the "turbo" 6.12 yesterday and want to report that the audio issues introduced by 5.12 are still there.
> 
> Last night I recorded (or time delayed) FOX news from Dish and OTA. The Dish broadcast has audio interruptions (1-2 seconds) every few minutes. OTA works fine.
> 
> This appears to be an issue mostly for the news broadcasts on these local HD channels, on NBC Olympic coverage the audio does not appear to drop.


Vis-vis -- These are great findings and I plan to duplicate your efforts this weekend to confirm. This will be a major inconvenience when the new Fall season commences.

Is your your local Fox news show in HD? Here in St. Louis they have yet to upgrade their local studios to HD. I want to be consistent in my testing and I've only had the dropout issue when viewing HD. Therefore, I plan to conduct a similar test with Fox News Sunday with Chris Wallace. Dropouts are always bad on that particular show and all my recording have been via sat. It's odd that this issue would present itself in a talking head format.


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## mulder5000

moman19 said:


> Is your your local Fox news show in HD? Here in St. Louis they have yet to upgrade their local studios to HD. I want to be consistent in my testing and I've only had the dropout issue when viewing HD.


Just to clarify, are you saying you don't experience dropouts on the local news feeds, such as the 9pm news?


----------



## vis_vis

moman19 said:


> Vis-vis -- These are great findings and I plan to duplicate your efforts this weekend to confirm. This will be a major inconvenience when the new Fall season commences.
> 
> Is your your local Fox news show in HD? Here in St. Louis they have yet to upgrade their local studios to HD. I want to be consistent in my testing and I've only had the dropout issue when viewing HD. Therefore, I plan to conduct a similar test with Fox News Sunday with Chris Wallace. Dropouts are always bad on that particular show and all my recording have been via sat. It's odd that this issue would present itself in a talking head format.


Yes, FOX2 News (and most of the prime time shows) in Bay Area broadcasts in HD. Same as CBS5, ABC7 and NBC11. I did not notice any audio drop on the OTA version of these channels (needless to say that the SD version of these channels doesn't have any issues). As I mentioned, the Olympics on NBC11 never presented any issues in the past weeks but the news or Leno shows were unwatchable... Hard to tell what the problem is as inconsistencies exist. Not all of us experience this on the same programs/news/shows in the same time but the end result for all of -unlucky few?- us is that 5.12 broke something that Dish -sadly- is not capable yet to fix..... and they do not appear eager to do it either. Contacting some of us and attempting to troubleshoot the issues would probably result in fixing this much faster than trying to replicate this on their own.


----------



## moman19

mulder5000 said:


> Just to clarify, are you saying you don't experience dropouts on the local news feeds, such as the 9pm news?


Frankly, I don't watch the local Fox station for my news at 9. The NBC and CBS stations are both in HD and are on at 10, so I usually catch the news on one of those and never hear dropouts on those channels. I'll record local Fox News tonite on sat and OTA and will report back.


----------



## moman19

vis_vis said:


> .........Contacting some of us and attempting to troubleshoot the issues would probably result in fixing this much faster than trying to replicate this on their own.


I agree, and I know that Dish and the moderators are interested, but no one is reaching out to us. I will gladly help them locate the issue, rather than just voice my frustrations on an open forum to other users with similar symptoms. We should be past that point by now. I'm sure there are several variables at play here, but we all can't be crazy. Also, I see a pattern. Several viewers in the the same cities are reporting similar issues. Seems more than mere coincidence, IMHO.

I would gladly trade TURBO just to be back to rel 4.49. But that's not an option. :nono2:


----------



## barenjager

I also live in the Bay Area and record programs on my 622s. The sound dropouts on KGO have become so bad that I have had to stop watching shows on that station. This happens on both live or recorded shows. I use to watch the ABC national news every night but had to switch to CBS since I could not follow the stories with the sound dropouts. I have noticed that every time this happens the Dolby Digital sound indicator on my audio receiver flashes. Maybe this indicates some problem with the sound transmission from KGO. This problem by the way has been happening for a couple of months now. I have assumed it is a problem with KGO and not DISH. Anyone else having similar problems with KGO?


----------



## phrelin

barenjager said:


> I also live in the Bay Area and record programs on my 622s. The sound dropouts on KGO have become so bad that I have had to stop watching shows on that station. This happens on both live or recorded shows. I use to watch the ABC national news every night but had to switch to CBS since I could not follow the stories with the sound dropouts. I have noticed that every time this happens the Dolby Digital sound indicator on my audio receiver flashes. Maybe this indicates some problem with the sound transmission from KGO. This problem by the way has been happening for a couple of months now. I have assumed it is a problem with KGO and not DISH. Anyone else having similar problems with KGO?


I posted this on another thread but we need to barrage KGO with complaints so I'll repeat it here.

Go to this web page, fill out the form (select "other" from the pulldown menu). Describe the problem with the Dish Network feed. I have always gotten a response that the message is being passed on to engineering and usually get a followup from engineering saying they are contacting Dish to work out a solution to the problem. KGO is interested in getting their channel viewed, and the upcoming fall season is important. The more people they receive "expressions of concern" from, the more likely they are to work it out with Dish.


----------



## rexa

vis_vis said:


> Yes, FOX2 News (and most of the prime time shows) in Bay Area broadcasts in HD. Same as CBS5, ABC7 and NBC11. I did not notice any audio drop on the OTA version of these channels (needless to say that the SD version of these channels doesn't have any issues). As I mentioned, the Olympics on NBC11 never presented any issues in the past weeks but the news or Leno shows were unwatchable... Hard to tell what the problem is as inconsistencies exist. Not all of us experience this on the same programs/news/shows in the same time but the end result for all of -unlucky few?- us is that 5.12 broke something that Dish -sadly- is not capable yet to fix..... and they do not appear eager to do it either. Contacting some of us and attempting to troubleshoot the issues would probably result in fixing this much faster than trying to replicate this on their own.


vis_vis, We are both in the SF Bay area and seem to have the same symptom sets. I also see the problems on recordings but not from OTA. I have found this on ABC7 and FOX2. Haven't tried the others enough to know about them. I rarely see the problems on real-time, only on recordings and only from the satellite HD channels.

Seems that barenjager is also in our area but has worse problems than we do.

I agree that E* is not making any effort to contact us for details. I have offered to send someone an external drive with example recordings if they will just pay for the drive, but heard nothing at all re that offer.

I'm thinking about making a recording of the problems to post on YouTube. Maybe if we advertise the problems with Dish DVRs we may get more attention.


----------



## moman19

rexa said:


> .......I'm thinking about making a recording of the problems to post on YouTube. Maybe if we advertise the problems with Dish DVRs we may get more attention.


Great idea. I can do that as well. The only issue I see is the poor quality of YouTube. Things can studder and freeze even on a good day.


----------



## HobbyTalk

I've had dropouts on local HD channels for a while now. This is while waching live. I was going to write down a few notes but I've been mostly watching NBC lately and have only noticed it once last night during NBC Nightly News and once today during the local news broadcast (NBC). The drops are normally long enough that it will drop a few words.... I'm guessing a couple of seconds.

It may happen more on the other network channels but I haven't watched much of them since I started taking notes.

Using a 622 and it happen with both 5.12 and 6.12


----------



## Scott Spillers

I am continuing to experience very short audio dropouts during playback of the recorded local 11PM news on KOMO in Seattle (ABC affiliate) - channel 6414. This issue started with the 5.10 software and has been present in each version since (currently 6.12). Thus far, I have only experienced the issue on programs recorded on this channel, but it happens regularly.


----------



## kstuart

rexa said:


> I agree that E* is not making any effort to contact us for details. I have offered to send someone an external drive with example recordings if they will just pay for the drive, but heard nothing at all re that offer.


Dish knows about the problem.

I think that since it is limited to only a subset of channels and a subset of users (i.e. only delayed or recorded 720p satellite-delivered HD locals), that it has a lower priority than other problems that affect anyone.

There are also other priorities generated from other divisions of the company, such as the recent smard card change, 72.7 and 77 slot support, etc. (not to mention "Turbo HD Support" for the Marketing people  ).


----------



## moman19

kstuart said:


> Dish knows about the problem.
> 
> I think that since it is limited to only a subset of channels and a subset of users (i.e. only delayed or recorded 720p satellite-delivered HD locals), that it has a lower priority than other problems that affect anyone.
> 
> There are also other priorities generated from other divisions of the company, such as the recent smard card change, 72.7 and 77 slot support, etc. (not to mention "Turbo HD Support" for the Marketing people  ).


Dish may know about the problem but do you know where it lies on the priority fix list? That's what we want to know.

While this is obviously affecting a subset of channels and users, it is not limited solely to 720p local content. My Soundstage concerts are unlistenable and they are 1080i. Others have reported audio issues with Encore, another 1080i source.

In addition, while new priorities such as "Turbo HD Support" and new sats may certainly arise, that's no excuse for breaking what used to work just fine before recent updates. Forums like this are great for reporting bugs but I wish we would be offered the ability to accept or decline such upgrades. Then folks like me could sit back and watch the bugs fly as the brave early adopters opted in for the latest & greatest new features and reported their findings. But E* has never operated this way. Instead, they roll out new code in phases to the entire user base, cross their fingers and then (hopefully) prioritize the fixes. You better hope your newest issue affects thousands of users. If you're one of only a small select group experiencing an issue, you may be $crewed.

I don't own a 1080p set and I have no desire for VOD. Yet I had no choice but to accept this "enhancement". As a result, a very stable version of code (4.49) has been retired and replaced with buggy software.

Rant off.


----------



## treesyjo

Hi there. Please see post #78 in this thread as my response to an earlier request from Ron for information. Some additional questions are being asked so I'll try to provide additional info.

I am only seeing the audio issues on HD channels. I do not have HD locals available at this time so my locals aren't affected. I'm in the Eugene, Oregon area

With very few exceptions, my audio issues are "permanent" until I do a reboot of the DVR. I suffer from 2 different issues... either total audio loss or constant audio stuttering. 

The issue presents itself on both live and recorded shows but only if I either pause, FF or Rewind. If I just let the show play out, nothing happens. I did go in and change my timers to record on SD versions of the channels and so far, the issue has not happened on the SD versions. The channels I have had this happen on are HD Discovery, HD A&E, HD ESPN, HD Cinemax (live only), MHD (channel 369). 

As stated in my earlier post, #78, I can be watching a recorded HD show, have my audio completely drop out and without rebooting the DVR, I can watch that show upstairs on TV2 with sound. My crappy SD tv in my bedroom (TV2) has never had an issue.

Another thing I noticed the other day while catching up on a bunch of recorded shows of Deadliest Catch (HD Discovery) is after i rebooted the DVR and went back to the recorded show I was watching, the show would start over at the beginning instead of where I left off. This was even if I stopped watching the recorded show, went to live TV, then rebooted the DVR. I still would have to start at the beginning. Thankfully, the audio doesn't crap out EVERY time I FF/pause/rewind but I'd say it happens about 40-50% of the time. Watching an hour long episode and FF during commercial breaks, I'd say I had to reboot about twice.

My video is unaffected.

When the issue first started, audio was going through a stereo receiver. Since then, I've hooked the audio directly through my TV and I have the same problem.

I do not use an EHD



I hope all this info helps!!


----------



## sonomajon

rexa said:


> vis_vis, We are both in the SF Bay area and seem to have the same symptom sets. I also see the problems on recordings but not from OTA. I have found this on ABC7 and FOX2. Haven't tried the others enough to know about them. I rarely see the problems on real-time, only on recordings and only from the satellite HD channels.
> 
> Seems that barenjager is also in our area but has worse problems than we do.
> 
> I agree that E* is not making any effort to contact us for details. I have offered to send someone an external drive with example recordings if they will just pay for the drive, but heard nothing at all re that offer.
> 
> I'm thinking about making a recording of the problems to post on YouTube. Maybe if we advertise the problems with Dish DVRs we may get more attention.


Just chiming in here as I am having the same experience....Fox KTVU and ABC as well. It seems to be getting worse. I only(so far)am experiencing this with recorded programs or obviously paused programming as well. Should we be contacting Dish en masse? Demand receiver replacement...BTW I'm pretty sure Iwas experiencing this on KTVU before the upgrade...No it's gotten much worse!


----------



## kstuart

sonomajon said:


> Demand receiver replacement...


All receivers will have the same problem, because *it is software not hardware.*


----------



## phrelin

sonomajon said:


> Just chiming in here as I am having the same experience....Fox KTVU and ABC as well. It seems to be getting worse. I only(so far)am experiencing this with recorded programs or obviously paused programming as well. Should we be contacting Dish en masse? Demand receiver replacement...BTW I'm pretty sure Iwas experiencing this on KTVU before the upgrade...No it's gotten much worse!


I've posted (post 130)a contact point for KGO 7 above. KTVU has an email address for engineering: [email protected]

It's important to contact the station's engineering folks. They want to make sure viewers keep viewing so they too will contact Dish Network's technical staff. It's good to get communications going between them by letting both know what's going on.


----------



## snappingturtle

I too am experiencing dolby digital audio problems with HI-DEF channels on my 722. I have a Yamaha RX-V2700 receiver. Using HDMI.

Curious about the extent of this problem, I dusted off my hdhomerun ( a hd digital tuner capable of streaming over the network ) and configured mythtv to use it on my pc. mythtv is an opensource PVR software for linux. I have AC3 pass-through enabled for dolby digital. When I tune to ABC-7 or KTVU-2 it has severe audio dropouts, worse than dish. I have a very minimal comcast subscription ($1 extra) because I use them for internet service. I do not have audio drop-outs on any other channels on my hdhomerun. From my pc to my receiver I use optical for audio and HDMI for video. I'm using a DVI to HDMI cable here. HDMI sends video to my TV, a sony KDL-46V3000 

I can watch NBC-11, KQED-9, KQED-ENCORE and the CW-44 in HD AC3 absolutely perfectly on the hdhomerun.

I have never tried over the air with the 722 or the hdhomerun. Maybe I'll try that when I get a chance but I don't think I can pick them up where I live.

This audio problem is quite vexing.

I have no idea if my observation regarding the hdhomerun is coincidental and just a red herring or not, but I find it highly suspicious. I also wonder if newer 722 software is just coincidental with some recent equipment changes that broadcasters are starting to use.

I have emailed engineering at both broadcasters just yesterday. No progress so far.

Maybe it has something to do with Yamaha. I have access to an old denon reciever that I can try. It has optical audio, but no HDMI. So I would have to attach hdmi directly to the Sony. 

:nono2:


----------



## kstuart

snappingturtle said:


> Curious about the extent of this problem, I dusted off my hdhomerun ( a hd digital tuner capable of streaming over the network ) and configured mythtv to use it on my pc. mythtv is an opensource PVR software for linux. I have AC3 pass-through enabled for dolby digital. When I tune to ABC-7 or KTVU-2 it has severe audio dropouts, worse than dish. I have a very minimal comcast subscription ($1 extra) because I use them for internet service. I do not have audio drop-outs on any other channels on my hdhomerun. From my pc to my receiver I use optical for audio and HDMI for video. I'm using a DVI to HDMI cable here. HDMI sends video to my TV, a sony KDL-46V3000
> 
> I can watch NBC-11, KQED-9, KQED-ENCORE and the CW-44 in HD AC3 absolutely perfectly on the hdhomerun.
> :


You never quite come out and say it, only implying it through a maze of technical equipment discussions...

Are you having these same audio dropouts on ABC-7 and KTVU-2 using Comcast cable feed instead of Dish Network's feed ?

If so, are the dropouts worse when there is very little motion - such as a graphics screen of standings or upcoming programming, etc. ?

If so, does Comcast use MPEG-4 for HD local channels ?


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## HobbyTalk

I have now had about a dozen dropouts while watching the olympics on NBC tonight. This is live and not recorded programming


----------



## phrelin

snappingturtle said:


> I have a Yamaha RX-V2700 receiver. Using HDMI.
> 
> Maybe it has something to do with Yamaha. I have access to an old denon reciever that I can try. It has optical audio, but no HDMI. So I would have to attach hdmi directly to the Sony.
> 
> :nono2:


I too have a Yamaha RXV2700 AV Receiver, but based on the number of complaints on the Bay Area Folks: Audio drops on Fox and ABC thread, I don't think it is our Yamaha's. And my connection is component/optical audio and still have dropouts.


----------



## snappingturtle

kstuart said:


> You never quite come out and say it, only implying it through a maze of technical equipment discussions...
> 
> Are you having these same audio dropouts on ABC-7 and KTVU-2 using Comcast cable feed instead of Dish Network's feed ?
> 
> If so, are the dropouts worse when there is very little motion - such as a graphics screen of standings or upcoming programming, etc. ?
> 
> If so, does Comcast use MPEG-4 for HD local channels ?


I'm just trying different things with equipment that's available to me. I didn't mean to make it sound too technical. Comcast uses MPEG-2 in my area.

I just connected an optical cable from my tv to my receiver with cable attached to the sony. No audio dropouts. I should have tried this before messing with myth and the hdhomerun! :lol:

So I guess my little experiment with cable and the problems I observed with myth apparently have nothing to do with what we're seeing on the 722.


----------



## snappingturtle

snappingturtle said:


> I'm just trying different things with equipment that's available to me. I didn't mean to make it sound too technical. Comcast uses MPEG-2 in my area.
> 
> I just connected an optical cable from my tv to my receiver with cable attached to the sony. No audio dropouts. I should have tried this before messing with myth and the hdhomerun! :lol:
> 
> So I guess my little experiment with cable and the problems I observed with myth apparently have nothing to do with what we're seeing on the 722.


I know replying to self is bad, however this may be important.

While messing with mythtv and comcast, I have noticed that playback problems somehow relate to 720p vs 1080i playback. 1080i is fine, but 720p has severe playback audio/video studder.

The correlation between myth/cable and what we see on the 722 may, in fact, be that there can be issues with 720p playback or in some way related to the way video is upscaled.

I wish the 722 told us a little about broadcast feed on screen.


----------



## mulder5000

snappingturtle said:


> While messing with mythtv and comcast, I have noticed that playback problems somehow relate to 720p vs 1080i playback. 1080i is fine, but 720p has severe playback audio/video studder.
> 
> The correlation between myth/cable and what we see on the 722 may, in fact, be that there can be issues with 720p playback or in some way related to the way video is upscaled.


Snappingturtle might be on to something.
Based on a quick search, it looks like the other 720p channels are ESPN, ESPN2, and National Geographic. I watched each channel for about 15 minutes (delayed by about 30 seconds) and noticed 1 dropout on ESPN. ESPN2 and National Geaographic were fine, but if I would have done a longer test they may have had problems, too.
Since I never watch those 3 channels, it could explain why I think/thought the problem was limited to ABC and FOX.


----------



## phrelin

Well, it could be the 720p channels, but there are posts like the one below and I've seen some NBC dropout on the Olympics:



HobbyTalk said:


> I've had dropouts on local HD channels for a while now. This is while waching live. I was going to write down a few notes but I've been mostly watching NBC lately and have only noticed it once last night during NBC Nightly News and once today during the local news broadcast (NBC). The drops are normally long enough that it will drop a few words.... I'm guessing a couple of seconds.
> 
> It may happen more on the other network channels but I haven't watched much of them since I started taking notes.
> 
> Using a 622 and it happen with both 5.12 and 6.12


----------



## mulder5000

phrelin said:


> Well, it could be the 720p channels, but there are posts like the one below and I've seen some NBC dropout on the Olympics:





HobbyTalk said:


> I've had dropouts on local HD channels for a while now. This is while waching live.


There might be more than one bug at work here because I have yet to experienced problems with live tv.
Phrelin, do your dropouts occur live, like HobbyTalk, or only on delayed/recorded programs?


----------



## olguy

To add a bit of confusion here, I had some audio dropouts during the final credits of I Am Legend tonight on 501. And I have them bad on the local news on Houston's ABC affiliate. Haven't checked to see if it is a 720p or 1080i and we aren't watching anything on ABC this summer so don't know about that.


----------



## mulder5000

I bought and hooked up an OTA antenna today and am happy to report my local FOX station has no audio dropouts when delayed/recorded. I recorded the same program through the SAT locals for comparision and the dropouts were there.


----------



## moman19

The biggest offender when it comes to Audio dropouts are Soundstage recordings I have stored on my EHD from the old VOOM Rave channel. It was 1080i so that pretty much kills the 720p theory. I restored a concert to the DVR to see what would happen. The dropouts remained.


----------



## rexa

OK. This one is really weird.

Was watching the ABC 7 local news at 11 PM. At the end of the show when it should have changed to advertisments and then Nightline, there began a strange broadcast.

I heard something like, "This is a network test and should not be broadcast." But it was, and then a woman announcer talking about, "bananas", and a bunch of odd stuff where the sound and lip sync should be pretty obvious.

Wow, odd. And the sound was out of sync, which is a pet peeve, but off topic for this thread.

Then a really strange test pattern. Then I thought, "why am I not recording this great event?" So I started. But it had already changed to a vertical color bar pattern with "ABC NY HD" printed across it and an audio tone. Then it switched to a 5.1 audio test with a fixed graphic where the audio switched between channels... "this is left channel... this is right channel ... " etc. Then the regular programming resumed and I stopped recording.

Ok. I was watching this on the satellite channel of my local ABC (one of the problem channels). While I was listening to this real-time all the audio was ok except for the audio sync problem (yeah, that sucks too, but a different problem.)

So I played back the recording. [I SO wish I had the whole mistaken broadcast, but I didn't.] That vertical bars screen started up with the constant tone in the background, except that the tone had big noticeable drops every few seconds.

Then it switched to the 5.1 audio test. Randomly, every few seconds as the sound switched between channels, there were our dropouts.

I only add this message because the programming was so strange and because the captured failures during test patterns are so obvious.

P.S. Eventually we should start an audio sync thread, but the problems are so many and so varied and probably from various problems in all parts of all systems (not just Dish) that the thread would be only to make us all feel better by sharing our pain.


----------



## rexa

rexa said:


> OK. This one is really weird.


Thinking about my last post, I start wondering if this was staged for our diligent Dish engineers to get a handle on the situation. I sure hope so. If that happens to be true, and they didn't catch the problem, I certainly have a recording to use as an example.

What ever the reason for the odd test broadcast, there must be a few unhappy advertisers who missed their ~11:30 PM slot. Dang, now I am wishing that I checked real quick to see what was being broadcast OTA.

Oh well, glad I've caught a bit of it.


----------



## peakejef

I have skimmed this post and I think my audio issues are a bit different. Any help appreciated.

I have a 622 hooked up with optical to my receiver. Once or twice a day, I lose all audio from the 622. Live TV (HD/SD/everything) and recorded shows have no sound. 

The only way I can get sound back is to unplug the power from my 622 and plug it back in. 

I was hoping a software update would fix this, but it has been happening with the last few updates and doesnt appear to be going away.

Help!

Thanks

Jeff


----------



## Ron Barry

In reading the thread.. something is not clear so here is a follow up question.

Are the audio drops are still present upon skip back and are they still present if you skip back about 2 minutes and play it through the area of the skip? IF they are present, are they in the exact same location or do they appear to be random.


----------



## Ron Barry

peakejef said:


> I have skimmed this post and I think my audio issues are a bit different. Any help appreciated.
> 
> I have a 622 hooked up with optical to my receiver. Once or twice a day, I lose all audio from the 622. Live TV (HD/SD/everything) and recorded shows have no sound.
> 
> The only way I can get sound back is to unplug the power from my 622 and plug it back in.
> 
> I was hoping a software update would fix this, but it has been happening with the last few updates and doesnt appear to be going away.
> 
> Help!
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Jeff


Definitely a different issue Jeff.. When this happens have you tried to see if the sound loss is both on SD and HD content. Also, are you directly connected through your TV or through an A/V receivers. One thing you can do to narrow the problem is to also check if there is no audio coming out of your RC jacks when this occurs.

I personally have not read reports of people having this occur each day though I do recall reading a report of it happening once. Also, If you are running through an A/V receiver what is the model?


----------



## snappingturtle

rexa said:


> OK. This one is really weird.
> 
> Was watching the ABC 7 local news at 11 PM. At the end of the show when it should have changed to advertisments and then Nightline, there began a strange broadcast.


*Nod*. I saw it too. It was quite weird and those test patterns were really cool. I observed audio dropouts throughout the speaker test. Not quite sure what it was I was watching, I skipped back and played it again!


----------



## snappingturtle

Ron Barry said:


> In reading the thread.. something is not clear so here is a follow up question.
> 
> Are the audio drops are still present upon skip back and are they still present if you skip back about 2 minutes and play it through the area of the skip? IF they are present, are they in the exact same location or do they appear to be random.


Hi Ron. From what I've observed, yes, they are present when watching from skip back and they are in the same positions in the video stream.


----------



## phrelin

mulder5000 said:


> There might be more than one bug at work here because I have yet to experienced problems with live tv.
> Phrelin, do your dropouts occur live, like HobbyTalk, or only on delayed/recorded programs?


Sorry, I missed this question somehow. I'm not a very good source for information on this as I watch nothing live - well, I did watch some Olympics live, but that doesn't count. So everything I see and don't hear is recorded on a 722.


----------



## peakejef

Ron Barry said:


> When this happens have you tried to see if the sound loss is both on SD and HD content.


There is no sound on any content. Even the "Point Dish" screen is silent, where you normally hear the test tone that gets higher or lower depending on signal strength.



Ron Barry said:


> Also, are you directly connected through your TV or through an A/V receivers.


My 622 uses Component Video to connect to the TV directly. Audio is direct from the 622 to my Pioneer VSX-1014TX receiver (a fairly common model sold at Best Buy and the like).



Ron Barry said:


> One thing you can do to narrow the problem is to also check if there is no audio coming out of your RC jacks when this occurs.


Thanks I will try this.



Ron Barry said:


> Also, If you are running through an A/V receiver what is the model?


Pioneer VSX-1014TX. When I lose sound, I have tried turning the receiver on and off. But that doesnt fix it. I have to power down the 622 and reboot it to restore sound. It sucks cause the 622 takes forever to come back up after you unplug it.


----------



## moman19

Ron Barry said:


> In reading the thread.. something is not clear so here is a follow up question.
> 
> Are the audio drops are still present upon skip back and are they still present if you skip back about 2 minutes and play it through the area of the skip? IF they are present, are they in the exact same location or do they appear to be random.


Ron,

As you can see this thread is getting mixed up with different audio issues, all equally annoying: dropouts, sync loss, complete loss, etc.

In response to your question, which concerns dropouts, I can report that the dropouts remain in the same spot when replayed. However, I find that the location of the drops can and do vary slightly. This is what helps me decipher words I cannot understand. My dropouts tend to be very short and may mute only a portion of a word or syllable. One time I might hear "The quick brown f__ jumped over the lazy dogs" Then when played back a second time, I might hear The quick brown _ox jumped over the lazy dogs" A third try might sound like "The quick brow_ fox jumped over the lazy dogs". etc. I find that it sometimes shifts.

Last Sunday, I tried to duplicate the issue by recording Fox News Sunday via OTA and Sat simultaneously. Of course, no drops on either. But remember, shows on my EHD ALWAYS contain dropouts.


----------



## phrelin

:righton: That's the best description yet.


----------



## mulder5000

Moman hit the nail right on the head.

On replay, the dropouts occur _around_ the same place, but not in the _exact_ same place.


----------



## BillM

I saw the funky test stuff on the off the air signal as well, so I don't think they did this for Dish. The programming was supposed to be Nightline, which was there on the SD channel.


----------



## moman19

This evening I was watching the 5:30 Network news on ABC. It's only available in SD. The audio was mildly garbled, sort of like under water. I checked to see if I was watching this OTA or via sat. It was via OTA. I then switched to the sat channel to compare. The same garbled sound was apparent. At first, I attributed this to the network feed. I then hit the BACK button on the remote to see if the garbling would remain. Lo and behold, instead of a garbled sound, I clearly heard audio dropouts. Most dropouts appeared in a few quick bursts immediately after resuming play.

I was able to duplicate this on the sat HD channel as well OTA. Not sure what it means, but perhaps it will help in a diagnosis. This puts to rest (for me, anyway) the theory that this only occurs on HD content.


----------



## AVJohnnie

Since getting L6.13 on both of my 622s a few days ago they both now have the momentary audio dropouts. I believe this to be a problem brought about by the installation of the new software since it occurs on older recorded content (recorded under earlier release versions) that previously played back without the problem.

The audio dropouts occur on all SAT delivered content (I don’t use OTA) – live, delayed, and recorded and is afflicting both of my 622s.

I know others have reported the problem with previous software versions, but for me it did not start until L6.13 arrived. There must be some condition about updating to a new software version that can under certain circumstances initiate the problem.

I’m also a little concerned to read here (so it seems) that once you have the problem, new releases don’t repair it. Maybe once everyone is experiencing the problem they’ll actually do something to fix it.


----------



## mulder5000

moman19 said:


> This evening I was watching the 5:30 Network news on ABC. It's only available in SD.
> .....
> This puts to rest (for me, anyway) the theory that this only occurs on HD content.


The content was in SD, but were you watching it on the HD or SD channel?

If it's SD content on an HD channel, that goes along with what I've experienced. Watching the same program on the SD channel (which is what I've done as a work around for this issue) does not produce dropouts for me.


----------



## phrelin

I haven't had a chance to watch the "Prison Break" whole show yet, but since it was the first premier on Fox or ABC I recorded it. This morning I tested it.

An audio drop occurred immediately at the beginning in the local promo for news then again with the "Viewer discretion advised" warning. I watched about a minute more - no audio drops. I rewound back to the the "Viewer discretion advised" warning - no audio drop. I stopped the playback and started over. The audio drops occurred. Rewound, no audio drop nor any in the intro recap of the show. Haven't had this happen before.


----------



## moman19

mulder5000 said:


> The content was in SD, but were you watching it on the HD or SD channel?
> 
> If it's SD content on an HD channel, that goes along with what I've experienced. Watching the same program on the SD channel (which is what I've done as a work around for this issue) does not produce dropouts for me.


Good observation. I have the SD channels locked out to avoid needless duplication in the guide. Therefore, I was viewing SD content on the HD channels.

Needless to say, viewing an HD program on an SD channel to resolve audio issues is not a viable workaround once the new season of shows commences. I am seriously considering changing service providers if this isn't resolved soon. It's not just me. My entire family is fed up with this ongoing issue.


----------



## kstuart

phrelin said:


> I haven't had a chance to watch the "Prison Break" whole show yet, but since it was the first premier on Fox or ABC I recorded it. This morning I tested it.
> 
> An audio drop occurred immediately at the beginning in the local promo for news then again with the "Viewer discretion advised" warning. I watched about a minute more - no audio drops. I rewound back to the the "Viewer discretion advised" warning - no audio drop. I stopped the playback and started over. The audio drops occurred. Rewound, no audio drop nor any in the intro recap of the show. Haven't had this happen before.


This is consistent with my observation that the problem occurs when the video bitrate gets very low.


----------



## Mustang Dave

I just recently noticed that the volume levels between SD and HD channels appears to be about the same now. Did 6.12 do something to fix this? Maybe I am hallucinating (it has been hot here lately) but I don't seem to have a huge difference in volume levels when I switch between HD and SD channels now.


----------



## dewey brunner

I am having a big difference in audio between HD and SD. HD is much louder on both 622 and 722. It is very frustrating to adjust volume every time changing from one to the other.
Any ideas of any adjustments to correct. Note: not going thru any other receivers. Getting programming from both 72.7 and 61.5 with 1000.4. 
Thanks Dewey in Tampa


----------



## Mustang Dave

dewey brunner said:


> I am having a big difference in audio between HD and SD. HD is much louder on both 622 and 722. It is very frustrating to adjust volume every time changing from one to the other.
> Any ideas of any adjustments to correct. Note: not going thru any other receivers. Getting programming from both 72.7 and 61.5 with 1000.4.
> Thanks Dewey in Tampa


I did some more flipping around of the channels tonight and it does seem the HD channels are a bit louder now than SD channels. The difference though is not as significant as it was before when switching from an HD to SD channel and it blasting through the house. I find it strange that no one else has noticed this? I am liking the change so far whatever the fix was.


----------



## swissy

I get drops on ESPN HD quite often. These drops are almost always from recorded content (PTI) and if I skip back, they do not occur in the same place.

It's annoying, but I have noticed PTI will audio drop when I pull up the guide or move the guide time. This seems to happen only with ESPN. Most movies I have recorded from Cinimax don't seem to have this issue.

I also get frequent drops from our local OTA CBS affiliate, WWMT.

VIP622 6.12 Optical audio to Yamaha VX2300.


----------



## phrelin

Unfortunately, because we have family visiting, I haven't had much chance to watch TV, but we did watch Bones last night and had the audio drop. Stupidly I deleted it. Then I woke up this morning with a thought.

I do have Prison Break, which I haven't watched, but had checked as noted above and it has a consistent audio drop at the beginning during the "Viewer discretion advised" announcement. I double checked and the drop was still there.

I had my DVR set to 1080i. I changed it to 720p. No audio drop. I went back and forth changing the settings. It consistently had the audio drop when the DVR was set to 1080i, but not on 720p.

I'm hoping someone can either verify my experience or find that their experience is not the same as mine.

This is with L6.13 on a 722.


----------



## moman19

phrelin said:


> ..........I had my DVR set to 1080i. I changed it to 720p. No audio drop. I went back and forth changing the settings. It consistently had the audio drop when the DVR was set to 1080i, but not on 720p.
> 
> I'm hoping someone can either verify my experience or find that their experience is not the same as mine.
> 
> This is with L6.13 on a 722.


I have a 622 and a 722. Both experience audio dropouts but both are set to 720p all the time to match my native displays. Sorry. I wish the cure was that simple.

Both are still on 6.12.


----------



## phrelin

moman19 said:


> I have a 622 and a 722. Both experience audio dropouts but both are set to 720p all the time to match my native displays. Sorry. I wish the cure was that simple.
> 
> Both are still on 6.12.


Thanks. I thought that just might be a quirk for that particular dropout and didn't want to report it to Dish Tech yet.


----------



## nostalgiaguru

phrelin said:


> I had my DVR set to 1080i. I changed it to 720p.


OK, I'll plead stupidity - how do I make this change?


----------



## ChuckA

In the HD setup screen.


----------



## rexa

phrelin said:


> I had my DVR set to 1080i. I changed it to 720p. No audio drop. I went back and forth changing the settings. It consistently had the audio drop when the DVR was set to 1080i, but not on 720p.
> 
> I'm hoping someone can either verify my experience or find that their experience is not the same as mine.


I tried this on my 622. It didn't seem to change the problem here. I used the recorded test pattern that I mentioned a few messages back because the drops in the solid audio tone are so obvious.

My default output was 1080i. The 720p didn't work on my TV so I tried the other lower settings. The dropouts remained with every setting I tried.

As I watched this pattern many times, I did notice that the dropout pattern does change on each playback. Lots of drops on each play but the duration and length varies a bit each time, as others have mentioned before.


----------



## rexa

OT - This doesn't really belong in this thread, but...

While we are STILL waiting for a fix or any indication that E* has a handle on our problem, can you check out my *"Guide features suck"* post in the normal thread part of our receiver section? That stuff irritates me a lot too, and maybe you intelligent people might agree.

Sorry for the digression.


----------



## LesRock1936

It seems that my receiver started the audio drop problem near the time that Dish started hyping "Turbo-HD", whatever the heck that is...

There are momentary pauses nearly every minute in both live and recorded broadcasts.

Since Dish has managed to raise their prices to match cable prices for equivalent programming and equipment that has more capability and actually works, it's getting tough to justify putting up with the quirks.


----------



## AColdStArnolds

I have not noticed a problem on recorded audio. I have started having a problem in the last few weeks on both my 722 and 222. The sound starts getting garbled is the best way I can describe it. It has happened both times I watched Saturday night live the last two weeks. Had to switch to watch it on the analog channel where the audio was fine.
It is briefly happening on most HD broadcasts. Watching the Texans-Steelers game now and ever so often the audio will become garbled for about half a second.

Since this just started the last couple of weeks is it related to an update? Of course it is happening on both receivers so I doubt that is it.


----------



## phrelin

AColdStArnolds said:


> I have not noticed a problem on recorded audio. I have started having a problem in the last few weeks on both my 722 and 222. The sound starts getting garbled is the best way I can describe it. It has happened both times I watched Saturday night live the last two weeks. Had to switch to watch it on the analog channel where the audio was fine.
> It is briefly happening on most HD broadcasts. Watching the Texans-Steelers game now and ever so often the audio will become garbled for about half a second.
> 
> Since this just started the last couple of weeks is it related to an update? Of course it is happening on both receivers so I doubt that is it.


Is this what I call the "under water" audio? If so, I've had it as long as I've had my 722 (a year) but never frequently enough nor long enough lasting enough to be more than a minor irritant.

I figured it might have something to do with the fact that I run audio via optical through my A/V receiver and through subwoofer-driven speaker system, so I never have complained to Dish about it because of the variables that could be causing it. But I'm picking up in these threads that others have it with totally different systems. And since I don't watch much of anything live I didn't know I might get it live.

I think it happens on locals, either mostly or only, but I don't keep a "glitch" log which I suppose I should.


----------



## phrelin

For a number of reasons, not the least of which is the audio dropout, I'm considering getting a ViP612 as my second receiver to replace my old 508's. Anyone here have a 622 or 722 with audio dropout who also has a ViP612 with or without the same audio dropout?


----------



## moman19

Today's Fox News Sunday was unwatchable. I recorded it from the HD sat Channel and for some reason, the show was in SD (no way knowing if this was a network issue or if someone just forgot to throw a local switch). Regardless, the audio was as bad as I have ever seen (heard?) it. It was very under-water-sounding and just chock full of dropouts throughout the hour. Even the wife (who is pretty oblivious at times) was furious and asked why we must keep putting up with this.

I'm at my wit's end......  ....:nono:......


----------



## phrelin

I sent this followup on my ongoing exchange to [email protected] , [email protected]star.com , [email protected] , with a cc to [email protected] for what it's worth.


> Folks at Dish Network:
> 
> I recognize that complaints are difficult to prioritize. But even though my complaint is focused on the San Francisco Bay Area, the problem is widespread in many DMA's throughout the country and it will become* the serious problem* for you this month.
> 
> HD customers not being able to watch ABC and Fox HD feeds as the fall season starts rolling out is a real problem compared to your effort at 1080p for a handful of HD customers. It might be irritating for some 1080p-enabled TV owners not to be able to watch a couple of movies on demand in 1080p, but if you haven't solved this broadcast TV audio problem before the last week of this month, you are going to lose alot of HD customers and defeat the whole purpose of your TurboHD rollout.
> 
> For example, someone from the Midwest posted today in the ViP622/ViP722 - L5.12/L6.10/L6.12 Audio Related Issues Discussions thread on DBSTalk:
> 
> "Today's Fox News Sunday was unwatchable. I recorded it from the HD sat Channel and for some reason, the show was in SD (no way knowing if this was a network issue or if someone just forgot to throw a local switch). Regardless, the audio was as bad as I have ever seen (heard?) it. It was very under-water-sounding and just chock full of dropouts throughout the hour. Even the wife (who is pretty oblivious at times) was furious and asked why we must keep putting up with this.
> 
> "I'm at my wit's end......"​
> This expression of family frustration is no small matter as the Summer comes to an end. The audio problem deserves to be the only problem solved by a focused L6.14 software release. At this time, I don't read about any other problems with HD on the 622/722 series on DBSTalk forum that are as basic to TV viewing as this one problem.
> 
> Sincerely
> 
> (ME)


----------



## AColdStArnolds

phrelin said:


> Is this what I call the "under water" audio? If so, I've had it as long as I've had my 722 (a year) but never frequently enough nor long enough lasting enough to be more than a minor irritant.
> 
> I figured it might have something to do with the fact that I run audio via optical through my A/V receiver and through subwoofer-driven speaker system, so I never have complained to Dish about it because of the variables that could be causing it. But I'm picking up in these threads that others have it with totally different systems. And since I don't watch much of anything live I didn't know I might get it live.
> 
> I think it happens on locals, either mostly or only, but I don't keep a "glitch" log which I suppose I should.


I experience this through the television, not my av system. I had brief garbled/under water/drops all day today while watching football on CBS. My biggest problem has been on NBC. So my problems are happening on networks different from the people in San Francisco area. 
It is usually a brief, less than a second, experience. But as I mentioned on my above post it has happened the last two weeks for most of Saturday night Live. It was so bad and persistent I had to change to the analog NBC channel just to be able to listen to it.
And it happened last night while watching SNL on my analog television connected to the 222. I had it on the HD NBC so changed it to the analog and the sound problem disappeared.
Could this be a satellite problem and not the receivers? Since it is happening for me on a 222 and a 722 I am wondering.


----------



## phrelin

AColdStArnolds said:


> I experience this through the television, not my av system. I had brief garbled/under water/drops all day today while watching football on CBS. My biggest problem has been on NBC. So my problems are happening on networks different from the people in San Francisco area.
> It is usually a brief, less than a second, experience. But as I mentioned on my above post it has happened the last two weeks for most of Saturday night Live. It was so bad and persistent I had to change to the analog NBC channel just to be able to listen to it.
> And it happened last night while watching SNL on my analog television connected to the 222. I had it on the HD NBC so changed it to the analog and the sound problem disappeared.
> Could this be a satellite problem and not the receivers? Since it is happening for me on a 222 and a 722 I am wondering.


Well, you would screw up narrowing it down to specific networks.:sure:

Theoretically it could be a satellite problem, but San Francisco HD stations are on 119 and I think most Texas ones are not. What makes it weird is you're getting it on a 222 live.


----------



## moman19

phrelin;1783288.......San Francisco HD stations are on 119 and I think most Texas ones are not. What makes it weird is you're getting it on a 222 live.:confused:[/QUOTE said:


> Here in St. Louis, the HD locals are on the 118 bird. Regardless of which sat this originates from, there is a pattern:
> 
> 
> Dropouts were introduced with rel 5.xx and continue with rel 6.13
> Recorded events have much more dropouts than real-time LIVE events.
> Most reports seem to be related to local DMA HD feeds.


----------



## jthieling

I habe the 722, hooked up to a Denon HT Receiver, and a Samsung Flat panel monitor. I have the 722 hooked up to the TV via HDMI, and also have the TV2 Output utilized. I have the sound to the Audio receiver hooked up via Optical output. The sound works great on most chennels, however, on Encore HD, and National Geographic HD, I get intermittent sound on only the Optical out. Sound is ok on the HDMI output (through TV Speakers), and on TV2 Output. I am running L612 firmware as of now.

I am hoping someone has some ideas.

Jarrod


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## phrelin

While watching "Terminator: Sarah Conner" recorded last night on Fox (Bay Area), we had no dropout on the show but did have it in the breaks, which we normally don't watch. And (confirming previous observations by rexa and others), it was particularly bad during a commercial where the background was simply a slate or title screen. Of courses "Terminator" was essentially non-stop action where very little of any scene was not constantly changing. (L6.13)

I'm going to be getting a ViP612 next Monday which, assuming it more or less works ok, I'll be able to record the same shows to see if the dropout occurs on both boxes.


----------



## plasmacat

I also posted this in the HD forum where there is a thread - Bay Area audio drops.

I have a 622.
There were some drops in the show (Sarah Connor) near the beginning. I tested out all options - switching from 1080i to 720p, switching from listening on optical output to my receiver to HDMI output directly to my TV - nothing made any difference - still got the dropouts. Since I was watching a recorded show I rewound the trouble spots to test those options and the audio drops and garbles were always there.


----------



## Todd Nicholson

I am experiencing these audio drops as well. The night before last on a recording of the The Simpsons (Fox) and last night's Jeopardy (ABC). Both had a ton of audio drops. I'm North of Seattle and local HD's here are on 110. I have 722 with 6.13 and just got Dish 2 weeks ago. Between this and the frequent loss of 129 signal, it's frustrating.


----------



## streaml1ne

I've had this happen twice in the past three weeks on my 722. The first time I actually thought my new TV was broken, ultimately the problem led me to this thread. The first time the problem showed itself on live HDTV and an HD DVR'd recording from the prior night. Strangely I watched the recorded episode live while it was being DVR'd and there were no audio dropouts. This suggests to me the problem (at least in my case) was not broadcast related but something with the box's handling of audio.

The second time was last night on the Cartoon Network, the HD channel had audio dropouts, the SD channel did not. Going into the menus and resetting to factory defaults has fixed this both times for me.


----------



## PeteSJCA

Todd Nicholson said:


> I am experiencing these audio drops as well. The night before last on a recording of the The Simpsons (Fox) and last night's Jeopardy (ABC). Both had a ton of audio drops. I'm North of Seattle and local HD's here are on 110. I have 722 with 6.13 and just got Dish 2 weeks ago. Between this and the frequent loss of 129 signal, it's frustrating.


Ditto what Todd said. I have a 722 with 6.13, and I'm experiencing the exact same issues with the same networks and same satellites, and I'm in San Jose, CA (south SF bay area).

I'm sure E is aware of this, but are they doing anything?


----------



## Todd Nicholson

I just watched my recording of Terminator on Fox and experienced not only audio drops in the beginning, but major video drops and pixelation as well. I'm not sure if it's related, but it's been perfectly clear here for weeks and no other video problems. Picture would be fine, then the picture would break up, sometimes just for a second or two, but other times, for about 30 seconds and sometimes the screen would just turn a solid dark yellow color. These problems seem to only affect the HD locals and only for recorded programs.


----------



## phrelin

They're "working on it" and I continue to clutter their email boxes with a daily update.

But it wouldn't hurt to keep letting them know which stations by location, call letters and network in different Designated Market Areas are getting the dropout. Let them know the program you were watching and whether it was recorded or live. And let them know your DVR model and software version.

I email [email protected] and [email protected].

You will probably get a form email back asking for more information.

Keep in mind that the "audio dropout" problem is a different problem than the static-like clicks I got a couple of times last night watching a TNT recording or the video pixel issue that also affects sound that I got once last night watching a USA recording. The audio dropout literally is a momentary dropout of audio only, which for many is on recordings from locals, such as I experienced mostly in commercial breaks on "Bones" last night.

I'm not sure I like trying to be helpful to Tech Support as I'm losing track of the programs because I'm so busy listening to things I apparently ignored in the past.


----------



## Todd Nicholson

I have sent emails to the two addresses above and have yet to get a response I guess there is nothing that can be done except wait and hope they fix it soon.


----------



## phrelin

"Soon", the universal answer to all questions Dish.:sure:


----------



## mercator1

I was sending my 722 and DVD outputs via HDMI to my Yamaha soundbar, and then to my plasma via HDMI. I was getting dropouts all the time. For a completely different reason, I sent my 722 and DVD output via HDMI directly to my plasma, and then used optical audio out to send to my sound system. I haven't had a dropout yet. Strange.


----------



## kstuart

Has anyone specifically verified that the SD versions of the same ABC and FOX channels on Dish do not have the problem - using the same 622/722 receiver ?


----------



## phrelin

kstuart said:


> Has anyone specifically verified that the SD versions of the same ABC and FOX channels on Dish do not have the problem - using the same 622/722 receiver ?


Hmmm. Well I haven't, so I'll try it tomorrow.


----------



## rexa

What a dumb A** I am. Tonight I was away and recorded 20/20 on ABC 7 so I could watch the Sarah Palin interview. I stupidly forgot that OTA is good and Dish feed is bad. I recorded the satellite feed. 

So I came home to find I have a shotgun blasted swiss cheese version of the program and interview (audio). I watched it because I cared about it, but it was horribly painful. Maybe a half-dozen sentences in the whole thing came through without audio holes. This problem is so real, so reproducible, and it really s*cks.

So to reiterate my findings for those who have asked recent questions in this thread. Here is the way it works for me. 

I only see it on recording of local channel programs that are sent up-and-back via Dish satellite. The programming must be in some HD format (I wish I knew if it mattered about 1080, 720, etc. but I don't know how to identify that). The audio must be Dolby Digital 5.1, Dolby PLII stereo isn't a problem. The SD satellite channel version is ok. The programs that are bad from the satellite are ok if from OTA (local Over The Air channel through my TV antenna from the same station.) Once in a while I see something bad in the audio as I am watching, but the major and common and annoying and repeatable problem is watching the program after it is recorded to the HD, either in the DVR or External.

Hope that helps the newbies to the thread. Oh, yes, when it happens, I can see the Dolby decode light on my receiver go off during the drop.

I sent an email yesterday to all the usual suspects. I volunteered to help engineering again. I am told engineering is aware of it. They are still sorry for my inconvenience. we still don't have any real expectations of a fix. We should still (in my opinion) all keep bothering them with emails or what ever we can think of.


----------



## rexa

Just a minor warning to those trying to email about our shared problems... 
Shall we call ourselves the "sque_ky wh_el gro_p"? (Because of the dropouts.) Please, everyone who is suffering with this problem, continue to email that we are still suffering.

"Again we apologize for the inconvenience this issue has caused." Yada, yada...

OK, so with a pre-warning that I again may have made a bad choice of words or phrases, my random guess for an email address of [email protected] just gives a bounce message. Go figure.


----------



## mulder5000

kstuart said:


> Has anyone specifically verified that the SD versions of the same ABC and FOX channels on Dish do not have the problem - using the same 622/722 receiver ?


ABC and FOX SD channels work perfectly for me - thats my workaround for watching the news, as FOX still shoots the news in SD, so I'm not taking much of a quality loss.


----------



## kstuart

mulder5000 said:


> ABC and FOX SD channels work perfectly for me - thats my workaround for watching the news, as FOX still shoots the news in SD, so I'm not taking much of a quality loss.


Thanks, and by the way, all national news programs are still shot in SD - only the news anchor in his/her studio is HD, but all the "segments" or "features" are 4x3.


----------



## lujan

kstuart said:


> Thanks, and by the way, all national news programs are still shot in SD - only the news anchor in his/her studio is HD, but all the "segments" or "features" are 4x3.


That's not always true. I've seen news segments out on the field on NBC Nightly News shot in HD.


----------



## LesRock1936

I went through all the settings and under setup/dolby, there was a selection for line or RF. Mine was set for RF.

Changed to line and the audio drops are gone.


----------



## phrelin

LesRock1936 said:


> I went through all the settings and under setup/dolby, there was a selection for line or RF. Mine was set for RF.
> 
> Changed to line and the audio drops are gone.


Of course, I had to double check mine to make sure the setting hadn't be changed. It hadn't. It was on line. Still have intermittent audio drops on recordings on Fox and ABC HD in our area. And recordings of the SD feed don't have drops.


----------



## LesRock1936

LesRock1936 said:


> I went through all the settings and under setup/dolby, there was a selection for line or RF. Mine was set for RF.
> 
> Changed to line and the audio drops are gone.


Posted too quickly... It's better, but not gone.


----------



## treesyjo

What are the chances that Dish will offer some kind of credit since the HD I'm paying for is unwatchable? What sucks is that I haven't called DISH about it since it sounded like from what I read here that calling them wouldn't do a bit of good. 

Thoughts??


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## phrelin

For everyone's information, Dish Quality called me today and asked to swap out my 722 with recordings on it that have the audio dropout for another. They haven't been able to recreate the problem. They'll be calling again tomorrow to finalize shipping arrangements. I have tonight's local ABC and Fox news plus Terminator and Prison Break on the drive, all with dropouts.


----------



## moman19

phrelin said:


> For everyone's information, Dish Quality called me today and asked to swap out my 722 with recordings on it that have the audio dropout for another. They haven't been able to recreate the problem. They'll be calling again tomorrow to finalize shipping arrangements. I have tonight's local ABC and Fox news plus Terminator and Prison Break on the drive, all with dropouts.


Nice work. Hopefully, this will help move things along. In regards to prior posts about LINE vs. RF out, I too find the setting makes no difference. Also, here in St. Louis, I experience audio dropouts when viewing SD shows on the HD channels. The only way to avoid dropouts on SD shows is to view them via an SD sat channel. This is a case where the cure is worse than the disease because the SD image is so highly compressed.


----------



## Mud

Thought I'd add my audio dropout problems. My wife likes to record Ellen on ABC HD here in Sacramento. Massive audio dropouts. I've noticed that the dropouts usually occur when there is very little movement on screen (camera still with just Ellen and maybe an interviewee on screen).

I've switched the timer to the ABC SD channel to hopefully clear up the problem for now.

This is on a 722.


----------



## phrelin

phrelin said:


> For everyone's information, Dish Quality called me today and asked to swap out my 722 with recordings on it that have the audio dropout for another. They haven't been able to recreate the problem. They'll be calling again tomorrow to finalize shipping arrangements. I have tonight's local ABC and Fox news plus Terminator and Prison Break on the drive, all with dropouts.


This morning we've confirmed a swap out - plenty of dropouts recorded last night.

Also, I did replace my trusty old 508's with a ViP612 and no dropout. So the question will be when the swap occurs on the 722, will the replacement dropout. Watch for the next installment.


----------



## kendrid

Do these drop-outs occur even if you use the analog output from the 722? I am going to sign up for Dish but not until this issue is resolved unless the analog outputs work fine (I can live with no DD for a few months).
Thanks


----------



## ChuckA

While reading this thread you may get the idea every Dish user is having this problem but in fact it seems that only a relative few experience it. Don't let one small problem stop you from becomming a Dish user, or if you read this forum you would always find a problem or two to worry about.

For sure it is serious to those with the problem but most people never see this one.


----------



## plasmacat

Just want to report that after watching part of Fringe recorded OTA (fine - no dropouts)my rabbit ears lost the signal so I switched to Fringe buffered on my Dish 622 and I got the dropouts but they seemed to only happen during commercials (the bits I didn't skip over). So I don't care about dropouts in commercials but if I was an advertiser, I'd be PO'd.


----------



## phrelin

Three comments.

First, the momentary dropouts from recordings that when repeated shift from syllable to syllable appear to be limited to certain DMA's.

Second, it does appear that on Fox prime time _network_ shows in the Bay Area, we are not getting many dropouts except in commercials, or as in the cae of Fringe when the slates appear between the show and the commercial. But local news, for instance, on ABC and Fox at times becomes "unhearable".

Third, in working with my ViP722 and my newly added ViP612, I'm not getting the dropouts on the 612 and if I move my EHD to my 612 and play content recorded from the 722, the dropouts are there, in the recording.


----------



## phrelin

kendrid said:


> Do these drop-outs occur even if you use the analog output from the 722? I am going to sign up for Dish but not until this issue is resolved unless the analog outputs work fine (I can live with no DD for a few months).
> Thanks


If you mean the RCA audio jacks, I only tested those once but they didn't seem to dropout. Someone else may need to comment.

Also, the droput problem described clearly in post 162 by moman19 appears to be occurring in certain locals and has not been reported for Chicago that I can find. Right now, Dish is focusing on trying to solve it using recordings from the San Francisco and St. Louis areas.

Now, what I call the brief and infrequent "underwater" audio is another subject. It did occur on both my 722 and 612 last night and there appears to be an almost "unseeable" video glitch associated with it. My attitude is that it's just one of those things that occurs when one is dealing with compressed data handled by many pieces of equipment, like the occasional pixelation problem. These are the problems that occur in this early period of satellite and cable HD.


----------



## audiomaster

I am getting dropouts on HD Charlotte sat locals such as House and Fringe. It seemed like it got better later in the Fringe program. Unless maybe that Doctor guy on Fringe found the problem and injected an antivirus into my RG-6!
No wait, its back today!


----------



## RTCDude

phrelin said:


> If you mean the RCA audio jacks, I only tested those once but they didn't seem to dropout. Someone else may need to comment.


I can confirm that when I use the RCA audio output jacks on my 722, the dropouts do NOT occur. I switch back-and forth between RCA jacks and optical cable a dozen times with the same recording at the same spot just the be sure. And I have reproduced this on two other friend's 722's in the Bay area.

I just love debugging Dish's crap. I get enough of this from work.


----------



## kendrid

RTCDude said:


> I can confirm that when I use the RCA audio output jacks on my 722, the dropouts do NOT occur. I switch back-and forth between RCA jacks and optical cable a dozen times with the same recording at the same spot just the be sure. And I have reproduced this on two other friend's 722's in the Bay area.
> 
> I just love debugging Dish's crap. I get enough of this from work.


Thanks for the confirmation. If needed (although it seems Chicago is ok) I'll just use the RCA jacks.


----------



## igloo

Hi, I'm here to confirm another person from St. Louis with drop out problems. After watching recorded Bones tonight, my wife had enough and told me to figure out what the problem is.

I get drop outs on both of my 722s. It does seem to be primarily (but not isolated to) locals. From reading this thread sounds like I'm not alone.

Get to work Dish! Thanks!


----------



## Jarring2

Just had to join the forum so I can join the "Mine stinks too club". Put TN on the map with the same issues. Spent 45 minutes on the phone with DISH last night. Got all the "Sir, we apologize for the inconvenience" crap.

I read on here and have to agree, I didn't have(or notice) any problems with my 722 audio sync, or video playback issues until the TurboHD started being advertised... :nono2:


----------



## moman19

igloo said:


> Hi, I'm here to confirm another person from St. Louis with drop out problems. After watching recorded Bones tonight, my wife had enough and told me to figure out what the problem is.
> 
> I get drop outs on both of my 722s. It does seem to be primarily (but not isolated to) locals. From reading this thread sounds like I'm not alone.
> 
> Get to work Dish! Thanks!


Welcome to the club, igloo. I have Dish's attention and have been trying to trap specific events. I mostly see the dropouts on Fox and ABC events in HD. Of course, it's elusive. I viewed the entire premier episode of HOUSE this Tuesday expecting the worse but could not find a single drop. While this is a good thing, it doesn't help us identify the issue, which surely will return.

Stay tuned and hang in there.


----------



## phrelin

moman19 said:


> I viewed the entire premier episode of HOUSE this Tuesday expecting the worse but could not find a single drop..





igloo said:


> After watching recorded Bones tonight, my wife had enough and told me to figure out what the problem is.


 I didn't watch House on my 722 as the irritation factor within the household was rising because I feel obligated to check the commercials. But did watch Bones on the 722 last night and while there was significant dropout during the breaks, not much in the network show.

The weird thing is that the Dish Quality folks said they aren't being deluged with phone calls, which tends to make people think it's only in some boxes. But I think that isn't the case and when ABC starts their new season there will be tension in many households in affected regions should Dancing with the Stars get alot of dropout when the judges comment.


----------



## Mud

Do most people get audio drops when the camera is not moving on the screen? This is what I observe. I never have dropouts if the scene is changing.

If my understanding of MPEG decoding is correct, these scenes do not require as much "work" by the decoder due to the static nature of the scene. Just curious if this might be related to the audio dropouts for whatever reason.


----------



## mulder5000

moman19 said:


> I viewed the entire premier episode of HOUSE this Tuesday expecting the worse but could not find a single drop. While this is a good thing, it doesn't help us identify the issue, which surely will return.


I've been watching Prison Break, Terminator, Fringe, and House since they premiered. I've noticed very few dropouts during the actual show, but they are there in full force during the commercials and still scenes (like the picture they show before commercial breaks on Fringe).
Over on ABC, I do get a lot of audio dropouts during recent episodes of Wipeout, which is shot in SD. HD Football on Saturday was fine.
It might have been mentioned before, but (for me) it seems like the dropouts are much worse on SD content. HD on Fox and ABC only has a few random problems.
I'll check this weekend to see if commercial dropouts occur mainly for SD commercials, or if it's both. Has anyone else taken note of this?


----------



## mulder5000

Mud said:


> Do most people get audio drops when the camera is not moving on the screen? This is what I observe. I never have dropouts if the scene is changing.


That has been my experience.


----------



## moman19

It seems the more I try to catch dropouts, the less I find. But when I'm not looking......BAM, there they are. Sort of like fishing.

Frankly, I don't care about drops during commercials, but that's not where I've noticed this. Probably due to my skipping past them.

Do any of you guys have an EHD? This is where I'm seeing the most severe dropouts but no one else is reporting this. If I save a show with drops onto the EHD, the problem seems to get worse. Live events are the best, recorded events may have issues, EHD-stored events are the worse. I offered to ship my drive to Dish for review but so far, they have declined. That's where I have the real gems.


----------



## mulder5000

I don't care about commercials, either, it's just interesting that Fall shows don't seem to have much problems, but their commercials do.

I know Moman has problems with old Rave concerts and I have had a few problems with my Fall Fox shows, so my SD/HD theory has a few holes. It still could be a contributing problem, though.

It's also possible that it has nothing to do with HD or SD, but it just so happens the SD has more scenes with little movement (I know Wipeout and the news has a lot of those) while the HD doesn't.


----------



## Grandude

This time of the year I do watch a lot of commercials to see what is coming in the fall lineup. Almost all of my breakup in audio is in the commercials and, I agree, it seems to be when there isn't much motion.


----------



## phrelin

moman19 said:


> Do any of you guys have an EHD? This is where I'm seeing the most severe dropouts but no one else is reporting this. If I save a show with drops onto the EHD, the problem seems to get worse. Live events are the best, recorded events may have issues, EHD-stored events are the worse. I offered to ship my drive to Dish for review but so far, they have declined. That's where I have the real gems.


Yep, three EHD's here and when my pea brain finally remembered I had put the first two episodes of Prison Break on one, I tried it on my new 612. Dropout was there, so it's definitely not a playback problem only on a 722.

They didn't want my EHD either. I guess that makes sense since I'm sure I'd never get it back, at least with programming intact. But today I received an email that a 722 has been "overnighted" to swap out. Of course, nobody delivers overnight to Willits, but if I get it before Sunday I can have mine with the programs that drop out on it shipped out Monday from Ukiah which does have overnight and where I have to be for jury duty. Such a busy time for someone who usually has nothing to do.

Let's just hope this all leads to something....


----------



## senchin

L613 has problems too. My VIP622 is having somer serious audio issues. I hope Dish fixes this problem before a class action occurs!!! I'm in a location that I can't just call up Dish and complain. It's highly annoying this is happening! I hope this is fixed soon! So far it seems a temp fix to the problem is doing a factory reset in the memory guide.


----------



## moman19

phrelin said:


> Yep, three EHD's here and when my pea brain finally remembered I had put the first two episodes of Prison Break on one, I tried it on my new 612. Dropout was there, so it's definitely not a playback problem only on a 722.
> 
> They didn't want my EHD either. I guess that makes sense since I'm sure I'd never get it back, at least with programming intact...


I have the same findings. When I restore a damaged program that was recorded a few months ago from the EHD back to the DVR, the dropouts remain in the same places. So in theory, I could restore a bunch of damaged events and ship that off as proof of the issue. But I would much rather catch this issue in real time. Until the Fall season gets into full swing and I have more time to watch TV, I am not having any success trapping the issue.

I wish I could say the problem as vanished, but I know it will soon raise it's ugly head. Something triggers this issue for me. I just haven't been successful lately. When it hits, it's bad.


----------



## phrelin

For everyone's information, L6.14 did not solve the momentary audio dropout problem but I didn't expect it to. I have L6.14 on my 722 and the recording of KGO7 (San Francisco Bay Area ABC affiliate) 11 a.m. news has many, many dropouts.

Supposedly I'll be getting my replacement 722 today so that I can send mine with defective recordings on it to Dish.


----------



## phrelin

I just sent this email to the Dish Quality folks I've been working with:


> The replacement ViP722 went into a boot loop and wouldn't work. It went through the download process, rebooted and then kept rebooting never going to another screen. I spent over an hour on the phone with a very knowledgeable tech support representative trying a few of the usual and some not so usual things to try to get control of the box, but no luck. He's arranged for another replacement to be shipped. My current ViP722 worked fine when I reconnected it.
> 
> This is, of course, rather frustrating for all involved. The replacement was a remanufactured unit. Perhaps a new one might have been a better choice, but it's your call.


I don't even know what to say here.:nono2:


----------



## moman19

phrelin said:


> I just sent this email to the Dish Quality folks I've been working with: I don't even know what to say here.:nono2:


Hang in there. I went thru a period where it took three (yes, three!) shipments before I got a 722 that was solid. Each one arrived with a totally different issue. I sometimes wonder how thoroughly the refurb units are tested before they are sent back out......especially when they won't even boot up no matter how many times you try.


----------



## phrelin

moman19 said:


> Hang in there. I went thru a period where it took three (yes, three!) shipments before I got a 722 that was solid. Each one arrived with a totally different issue. I sometimes wonder how thoroughly the refurb units are tested before they are sent back out......especially when they won't even boot up no matter how many times you try.


Thanks for the encouragement. I am now somewhat reluctant to give up my 722 that I know has no issues other than the audio dropout. It was my second one, as the first one failed in less than a week. I suppose they can find one that works to send me. But I am doing them a favor, so it is frustrating.


----------



## RTCDude

phrelin said:


> Thanks for the encouragement. I am now somewhat reluctant to give up my 722 that I know has no issues other than the audio dropout. It was my second one, as the first one failed in less than a week. I suppose they can find one that works to send me. But I am doing them a favor, so it is frustrating.


Do you really need to do a swap? Have Dish can activate the new 722 on your account for a couple of days. Record shows on the new 722 and verify they also demonstrate the dropouts. Deactivate the new 722 and send it back to Dish. If the new 722 does show dropouts, Dish doesn't need your hardware. If for some reason the new 722 doesn't show dropouts, then you can always fall back to a swap. But given the numbers of reportings, I doubt it.

Since you're doing Dish a favor by captuing a an example for them, they should be willing to do a short term test activate (at NO cost).


----------



## phrelin

RTCDude said:


> Do you really need to do a swap? Have Dish can activate the new 722 on your account for a couple of days. Record shows on the new 722 and verify they also demonstrate the dropouts. Deactivate the new 722 and send it back to Dish. If the new 722 does show dropouts, Dish doesn't need your hardware. If for some reason the new 722 doesn't show dropouts, then you can always fall back to a swap. But given the numbers of reportings, I doubt it.
> 
> Since you're doing Dish a favor by captuing a an example for them, they should be willing to do a short term test activate (at NO cost).


Good thought.


----------



## Rontero

I'm in St. Louis and I have the audio cutting in and out problem. I agree with a previous post from St. Louis that it occurs mostly on local channels that have been recorded. Not so much on live TV. 

Heroes was really bad last night.

Also, I dont know if this has been mentioned but if I just go back and watch the segment again and the audio is just fine or it will cut out in a different spot.

A friend of mine who is a Directv customer just told me he had the same type of problem on his HR20 and it turned out to be a bug in the software. The HR20 issue has been resolved now.


----------



## plasmacat

I had the worst experience ever with Sarah Connor Chronicles last night. A good portion at the beginning not only had constant audio drops but also picture freezes. Then we got a postage stamp pic for a good 15 min. When the regular pic came back the drops were not as bad but still there. This was Ch 2 - Fox - in the Bay Area.


----------



## moman19

phrelin said:


> Thanks for the encouragement. I am now somewhat reluctant to give up my 722 that I know has no issues other than the audio dropout. It was my second one, as the first one failed in less than a week. I suppose they can find one that works to send me. But I am doing them a favor, so it is frustrating.


Last week I was contacted by Dish and encouraged to record and trap examples of Audio dropouts. They would then send me a replacement DVR and I would send mine to them for review.....just like you. Well, this took me some time but I did what they asked and I have proof on the DVR. I have reported my findings but no one is returning my e-mails.

Have they lost interest???????


----------



## phrelin

I'm waiting for any response from Dish Quality letting me know that they received my email reporting the bad replacement 722. They were the ones who proposed the swap. I guess they are busy, but I haven't yet received the usual shipping notification for the replacement for the replacement, so I don't know what's going on.

Typical Echostar/Dish. Weak on retail/service relationships, good on product design but not so good on manufacturing and remanufacturing, marketing ahead of its ability to deliver on the ground and in the air, and an economic model that wasn't very adaptable before they split the company. Not that I have an opinion or anything.

Edit: just got the notice and the unit is on the FedEx truck for delivery today. So we'll see how it goes.


----------



## mulder5000

Rontero said:


> Heroes was really bad last night.


I didn't have any problems with Heroes, but I've never had problems with NBC.

I did have more problems than usual with Terminator, but not enough to become unwatchable. Maybe about 10 throughout the entire program (not counting commercials, which I skipped). Prison Break had only 1 dropout.


----------



## phrelin

Just to let everyone know. FedEx picked up my ViP722 at 3:02 pm PDT. Hopefully Echostar Engineering will receive it Monday and can begin working with the recordings on it that have the audio dropout.

This is what I wrote in the note packed with the unit:


> The ViP722 shipped with this letter contains recordings with the audio dropout referred to in email exchanges with Dish Quality.
> 
> The recordings are from San Francisco local stations KGO 7 (ABC) and KTVU 2 (Fox). I have left the recordings at a "resume" point which leads quickly into dropouts. You will find it easiest to see multiple dropouts over a shorter period of time in the KGO local news. But it does occur in the other recordings.
> 
> The dropouts "shift" to different spoken syllables when the scene is "skipped back". Also, the dropouts are far less frequent during the Fox network shows and occur more frequently on (1) commercials, (2) segues between the show and the commercials, and in some cases (3) during the "previously on" introductions to the show, as you will see from the recordings.
> 
> While it does seem that the dropouts are more frequently at points where there is less motion on the screen, I did not see any odd visual effects on my screen during the dropouts. But something might appear on a screen significantly larger than my 42" Panasonic. The dropouts do not seem to be present in the brief test of the RCA outputs on my boom box. And while they are reported to be present when others use the HDMI output, I only used the Toslink optical audio output.
> 
> Finally, the dropouts do not occur on recordings made on my ViP612, but do occur on recordings made on this ViP722 which have been transferred to one of my external hard drives and played on my ViP612. It is my opinion based on posts on DBSTalk that this dropout problem clearly is occurring in the San Francisco, Seattle and St. Louis markets and occurs on ABC and Fox.
> 
> I hope this helps resolve the problem.


----------



## mulder5000

Phrelin, does your replacement 722 have the audio dropouts?


----------



## phrelin

mulder5000 said:


> Phrelin, does your replacement 722 have the audio dropouts?


Yes it does. Just like the old one. I tested it on a KGO 7 (ABC) local news show and it was as bad as ever.


----------



## RTCDude

Phrelin, did you end up doing a real swap?


----------



## Todd Nicholson

I just received a reply from Dish Quality and they said that they are aware of the issue and are currently retrieving two boxes from customers (one is Phrelin of course). They forwarded my email to the team that's working on it as well. Hopefully they will come up with a final solution. It seems that the problem is becoming more and more widespread.


----------



## phrelin

RTCDude said:


> Phrelin, did you end up doing a real swap?


Yes, even though I had to get a replacement for the replacement to get a working 722, the second one appears to be working as well as the one I sent to Engineering. Of course, I could turn it on today....


----------



## bort269

hello everyone, 

I just found this site and am happy to see that I am not the only one with this problem and best of all that there is a temporary solution.

I just moved to Seattle and am a HUGE Simpsons fan, until I came here I taped every simpsons episode onto my VCR.
Now that I moved out of school, we got Dish and I assumed I would just DVR them.

We've been using the DVR for everything and had no problems (just occasional pixelation on a few movies we taped, no big deal) until tonight.

I taped the simpsons (on both FOX HD channels just in case) and every couple seconds the audio would clip making it unwatchable... and not just for an anal simpsons purist.

I was so pissed it ruined the episode, and I was about to call Dish when I went LIVE to watch Family Guy on Fox and it was fine!

I didn't understand it until I found your posts, thank you all! At least I can just watch the simpsons live from now on (And just tape them straight to my VCR the old-school way, now I have to connect the VCR, my wife is gonna be so pissed)

So is this basically for all local channels? The only other local channel I watched was the presidential debate on friday on NBC, but it was live so I didn't notice the problem.

I have a Primary Receiver: VIP722 and will call Dish right now to let them know.

Thank you all for posting about this!


----------



## phrelin

bort269 said:


> hello everyone,
> 
> I just found this site and am happy to see that I am not the only one with this problem and best of all that there is a temporary solution.
> 
> I just moved to Seattle and am a HUGE Simpsons fan, until I came here I taped every simpsons episode onto my VCR.
> Now that I moved out of school, we got Dish and I assumed I would just DVR them.
> 
> We've been using the DVR for everything and had no problems (just occasional pixelation on a few movies we taped, no big deal) until tonight.
> 
> I taped the simpsons (on both FOX HD channels just in case) and every couple seconds the audio would clip making it unwatchable... and not just for an anal simpsons purist.
> 
> I was so pissed it ruined the episode, and I was about to call Dish when I went LIVE to watch Family Guy on Fox and it was fine!
> 
> I didn't understand it until I found your posts, thank you all! At least I can just watch the simpsons live from now on (And just tape them straight to my VCR the old-school way, now I have to connect the VCR, my wife is gonna be so pissed)
> 
> So is this basically for all local channels? The only other local channel I watched was the presidential debate on friday on NBC, but it was live so I didn't notice the problem.
> 
> I have a Primary Receiver: VIP722 and will call Dish right now to let them know.
> 
> Thank you all for posting about this!


In your area, St. Louis, and San Francisco I know that this particular problem - audio dropout that when skipped back occurs on different syllables - occurs on Fox and ABC recorded from the satellite feed. Doesn't affect people who record off the air. Some have indicated the problem on other channels, but I haven't been able to identify audio problems without visible video problems on other channels.

In any event, my old 722 with recordings with dorpouts on it is at FedEx in Denver according to tracking and should be delivered to Echostar Engineering tomorrow. Keeping my fingers crossed.


----------



## bort269

phrelin said:


> occurs on Fox and ABC recorded from the satellite feed.


that explains why my wife didn't notice it taping CSI on CBS...



phrelin said:


> Keeping my fingers crossed.


i'll keep my fingers crossed for you as well!

I just called Dish and they basically made me power down the receiver to reset it and then tape FOX and play it back... it was the news and there didn't seem to be a problem, so I'll tape FOX and ABC primtime shows tomorrow and call 'em back if it happens again.

Thanks!


----------



## moman19

I have been contacted by Dish and am waiting for my replacement 722 to arrive. I have a few choice shows on my DVR with obvious dropouts ready for them to review. I'm sure this will help their engineers finally nail this bug. I wonder why only a select few markets are affected.


----------



## rexa

moman19 said:


> I have been contacted by Dish and am waiting for my replacement 722 to arrive. I have a few choice shows on my DVR with obvious dropouts ready for them to review. I'm sure this will help their engineers finally nail this bug. I wonder why only a select few markets are affected.


Glad they are finally working with you guys to look at actual captured problem recordings. I have to say that I am not quite as optimistic that this will immediately provide the key that lets them create a fix and send it out. I offered in email to hook them up with examples back in August.

I would expect more stumbling and bumbling before they find it and fix it. Then we all get to wait until our turn for a download. I'd be really surprised if they fix anything for most of us sufferers before Christmas.


----------



## phrelin

rexa said:


> Glad they are finally working with you guys to look at actual captured problem recordings. I have to say that I am not quite as optimistic that this will immediately provide the key that lets them create a fix and send it out. I offered in email to hook them up with examples back in August.
> 
> I would expect more stumbling and bumbling before they find it and fix it. Then we all get to wait until our turn for a download. I'd be really surprised if they fix anything for most of us sufferers before Christmas.


Yeah, as of 10:20 am Mountain Time Echostar Engineering has my 722 with the recordings on it. While we customers and Dish Quality are wishing for an instant fix, unless it is something very obvious in the audio stream and the source of that something has a label on it, I don't envy Engineering trying to figure it out.


----------



## behrozrahmani

Hi Everyone!

I have the same SOUND issues with my 622.
Dish said it is a hard drive issue and send me a new 622. 
After installing the new 622 last night I noticed that the new 622 
has the same sound problem and started searching online (found this site )
Called DN today and talked to tech support, and after 30 second realized that I know 
more than the dish tech guy. After explaining the issue again, he advised me to reset the receiver and the problem will be solved... that’s when I gave up and cut him off. 
Hopefully someone will get to the right guy or department and get to bottom of this annoying problem.

(Waited all summer for new episodes of HEROES, turned it off after 30 minutes , waited a day and watched it online)


----------



## Dr. Cool

Bizarre, I haven't had drops for a while, and here they are again, this time with Terminator on FOX, OTA. Coincidence or not, they started happening again once my HD got almost full. I'll see if the drops will stop once I delete some shows and have more recording time available.


----------



## bort269

behrozrahmani said:


> (Waited all summer for new episodes of HEROES, turned it off after 30 minutes , waited a day and watched it online)


have you tried watching it live? That was the revelation that I found on this thread, at least you can still see your favorite show, even though it sucks if you can't record it!


----------



## behrozrahmani

bort269 said:


> have you tried watching it live? That was the revelation that I found on this thread, at least you can still see your favorite show, even though it sucks if you can't record it!


I don't have any problem watching shows in live mode, it only happens on delayed or recorded programs (NBC, FOX, ABC&#8230;have not tried any other channels yet). But most of the time I'm not home or need to watch a different channel. Doesn't that also defeat the purpose of having DVR and paying more money for it?


----------



## Ron Barry

Welcome behrozrahmani to DBSTalk, 

Definitely agree that it limits the functionality of the DVR, but it can be a workaround for some until a fix is rolled out.


----------



## phrelin

Another work around exists also. You can record the SD feed. That's what I did until I added a ViP612.


----------



## 24dB/octave

Hi all,

I just discovered this site & thread. I too have audio dropouts on my 722 while watching SF locals. It's been going on for a while, & mostly a minor. However it's gotten bad...the Simpsons, as mentioned, was unwatchable. I've had other Fox dropouts, along with ABC, & perhaps others but I've not documented them.

On the Simpsons...I didn't listen to all commercials, but those that I did briefly listen do did NOT have the dropouts...only the actual Simpsons programming. Did anybody else notice this?

Also, does anyone have suggestions how I should contact Dish & get directly to the folks who need this info to fix the problem rather than some flunky who doesn't have a clue?

Thanks,

--Alan


----------



## phrelin

24dB/octave said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I just discovered this site & thread. I too have audio dropouts on my 722 while watching SF locals. It's been going on for a while, & mostly a minor. However it's gotten bad...the Simpsons, as mentioned, was unwatchable. I've had other Fox dropouts, along with ABC, & perhaps others but I've not documented them.
> 
> On the Simpsons...I didn't listen to all commercials, but those that I did briefly listen do did NOT have the dropouts...only the actual Simpsons programming. Did anybody else notice this?
> 
> Also, does anyone have suggestions how I should contact Dish & get directly to the folks who need this info to fix the problem rather than some flunky who doesn't have a clue?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> --Alan


Just send a report to [email protected] . They will forward the information to the Engineering team that is current working on the recordings on my old box.

They are also expecting to have a box from another region that has the same problems. So hopefully, they'll figure this out soon.


----------



## bort269

behrozrahmani said:


> Doesn't that also defeat the purpose of having DVR and paying more money for it?


I totally agree, and this situation is unacceptable, but I just meant you don't have to resort to the internet if you are a hardocre Heroes fan.

Thanks phrelin, I emailed them and hopefully they'll figure out what is going on!


----------



## Ron Barry

24dB/octave said:


> I just discovered this site & thread.
> --Alan


Welcome to DBSTalk Alan. :welcome_s


----------



## 24dB/octave

24dB/octave said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I just discovered this site & thread. I too have audio dropouts on my 722 while watching SF locals. It's been going on for a while, & mostly a minor. However it's gotten bad...the Simpsons, as mentioned, was unwatchable. I've had other Fox dropouts, along with ABC, & perhaps others but I've not documented them.
> 
> On the Simpsons...I didn't listen to all commercials, but those that I did briefly listen do did NOT have the dropouts...only the actual Simpsons programming. Did anybody else notice this?
> 
> Also, does anyone have suggestions how I should contact Dish & get directly to the folks who need this info to fix the problem rather than some flunky who doesn't have a clue?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> --Alan


I've done some more testing of the awful Simpsons episode I have...but first some info on my setup. I'm running HDMI from my 722 directly to my HDTV, & I'm running optical to my receiver. That way I can use the sound on the HDTV for "grut" TV, & only turn on my receiver when I'm watching a movie or something I want surround sound on.

The bad dropouts are heard on both the TV (HDMI), & through the receiver (optical).

One of the earlier posts indicated that there were no dropouts through analog audio, so I connected the analog out from the 722 to my receiver. What I found was that there were still dropouts, but they were very short in duration...& some were so short they could barely be heard.

My theory is what we are hearing are short dropouts (associated with modulation peaks?) that are only marginally heard on analog audio, but sound MUCH worse on digital audio because of the time it takes for the digital audio to re-synchonize & get decoded after re-synchonizing.

Just my theory....

--Alan


----------



## phrelin

24dB/octave said:


> I've done some more testing of the awful Simpsons episode I have...but first some info on my setup. I'm running HDMI from my 722 directly to my HDTV, & I'm running optical to my receiver. That way I can use the sound on the HDTV for "grut" TV, & only turn on my receiver when I'm watching a movie or something I want surround sound on.
> 
> The bad dropouts are heard on both the TV (HDMI), & through the receiver (optical).
> 
> One of the earlier posts indicated that there were no dropouts through analog audio, so I connected the analog out from the 722 to my receiver. What I found was that there were still dropouts, but they were very short in duration...& some were so short they could barely be heard.
> 
> My theory is what we are hearing are short dropouts (associated with modulation peaks?) that are only marginally heard on analog audio, but sound MUCH worse on digital audio because of the time it takes for the digital audio to re-synchonize & get decoded after re-synchonizing.
> 
> Just my theory....
> 
> --Alan


I sent your post to the Echostar Engineering supervisor handling this problem as it contains information I couldn't provide on HDMI and RCA audio. I didn't hear the dropouts on the RCA audio but I ran it through an old boom box and my hearing isn't what it used to be.


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## 24dB/octave

phrelin said:


> I sent your post to the Echostar Engineering supervisor handling this problem as it contains information I couldn't provide on HDMI and RCA audio. I didn't hear the dropouts on the RCA audio but I ran it through an old boom box and my hearing isn't what it used to be.


I also sent an email to [email protected] but I don't know if it will get to the right person.

--Alan


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## phrelin

24dB/octave said:


> I also sent an email to [email protected] but I don't know if it will get to the right person.
> 
> --Alan


Great! It will get there, but requires forwarding from someone there to Engineering. I just wanted your experience info to get there as soon as possible so they can solve this problem as fast as possible. But it helps if [email protected] can confirm with a customer related email address.


----------



## 24dB/octave

phrelin said:


> Great! It will get there, but requires forwarding from someone there to Engineering. I just wanted your experience info to get there as soon as possible so they can solve this problem as fast as possible. But it helps if [email protected] can confirm with a customer related email address.


Last night I recorded the ABC news, both in standard definition & HD. There were some dropouts on the HD version & none in the corresponding spots in standard def. Trying another dual recording this evening.


----------



## rexa

24dB/octave said:


> IOne of the earlier posts indicated that there were no dropouts through analog audio, so I connected the analog out from the 722 to my receiver. What I found was that there were still dropouts, but they were very short in duration...& some were so short they could barely be heard.
> 
> My theory is what we are hearing are short dropouts (associated with modulation peaks?) that are only marginally heard on analog audio, but sound MUCH worse on digital audio because of the time it takes for the digital audio to re-synchonize & get decoded after re-synchonizing.


I have the same symptoms with analog output. If you go back far enough in the post you can see my list of symptoms.

I have no way of gathering info on the encoding of signals that may coincide with dropouts, but for optical output, the Dolby Digital decode light on my receiver clearly goes away with every dropout.

The dropouts do have some correlation to what is happening in the video stream, though it is hard to see exactly what. Generated media is one thing that seems to be associated, but only sometimes. Then some video that looks totally simple has dropouts too. Like I said, hard to quantify, but you will see some patterns in drops vs. video if you look at a series of problem recordings.


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## danicus007

Glad I found this forum, having the same problem with my VIP722. Thought it was my new Sony DG-720 connected via HDMI but I guess it's not. The other night my recording of King of the Hill on WRAL FOX 50 out of Raleigh/Durham, NC dropped the entire episode. I had never seen anything like that. Ugly Betty on ABC dropped out a ton too but not as bad as King of the Hill. I posted a video of my receiver going nuts on Betty....I put the link five posts down since I'm new and can't post a URL until 5 posts.


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## danicus007

Also I didn't notice this problem before the TurboHD upgrade.


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## danicus007

post #3


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## danicus007

I also noticed before the TurboHD update my volume on SD channels was much higher than HD. After the update they are the same level of volume.


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## danicus007

post #5


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## danicus007

Okay here's the link to my video on YouTube:

Notice the receiver going nuts around the 25 second mark.






Is this the problem everyone is seeing??


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## mulder5000

rexa said:


> The dropouts do have some correlation to what is happening in the video stream, though it is hard to see exactly what. Generated media is one thing that seems to be associated, but only sometimes. Then some video that looks totally simple has dropouts too. Like I said, hard to quantify, but you will see some patterns in drops vs. video if you look at a series of problem recordings.


Another offender, in my experience, is when there is only a little motion on screen. Whenever the camera is still, I get a few dropouts - even if there is a bit of motion. If the camera is still and there is no motion, the dropouts get worse. The Simpsons on Sunday was horrible, and I blame the lack of a moving camera for this. Of course, it could be something else entirely.

I also had an interesting problem with Monday's Terminator. There was severe weather in the area, so FOX put up one of those radars with text at the bottom of the screen. For some reason, they also broadcast Terminator in SD while doing this. Halfway through the show, they took the radar off and put it back in HD. The first half of the show was filled with dropouts, but the last half only had a few. Anyone else in the area notice this?


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## PuxicoRG

mulder5000 said:


> I also had an interesting problem with Monday's Terminator. There was severe weather in the area, so FOX put up one of those radars with text at the bottom of the screen. For some reason, they also broadcast Terminator in SD while doing this. Halfway through the show, they took the radar off and put it back in HD. The first half of the show was filled with dropouts, but the last half only had a few. Anyone else in the area notice this?


Yes - I live in the St. Louis area and had the same exact problem. What's more, I went to a specific scene when back in HD where the audio dropped. I hit the 30 seconds back button (or whatever it's called) several times, and the skip would always occur right around the same time, but not exact. (The word was panic - sometimes you'd hear the first half of the word, sometimes the 2nd half, sometimes none of it.)

I have a 722 DVR, hooked up to an HDTV with HDMI cable, no antenna (yet). My wife and I first noticed this problem over the Summer on ABC while watching "The Mole". The skipping was horrible, so we simply switched to SD (which was no big deal, since it broadcasts in SD.) She also noticed the same thing on General Hospital, so she did the same fix (once again, who cares?).

We've noticed the problems much more lately on recorded shows. CBS is horrible during "How I met your Mother." Fox, as someone mentioned, has problems during "Fringe", but usually only when the broadcast is switching from program to commercials, not during the show. We have not noticed any problems on NBC. We've also not noticed problems while watching live (which is almost never.) And finally, shows recorded on HBO, History, etc. haven't had any problems.

I just found this forum while looking for answers, sent an email to the quality address listed previously, and hope to hear some results. Soon.


----------



## Phread

I live in the STL area too. Also having the audio dropouts. It seems to only be on the locals, so far. I'm wondering if this is an Mpeg4 decoding or encoding problem? I don't have audio dropouts on Discovery HD, which is Mpeg2.


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## bort269

PuxicoRG said:


> sent an email to the quality address listed previously, and hope to hear some results. Soon.


I emailed yesterday and got a reply this afternoon:

Thank you for your information! We are aware of the issue. Our Software Team for the 622/722 receivers is currently looking into it. To investigate this issue, our Software Engineering team is currently dissecting one of the boxes that we have retrieved from a customer. We are also in the process of retrieving another box for that same team. Hopefully, they will find a resolution soon. The fix will most likely come in the form of a software download. We will keep looking into the issue and trying to get it resolved. It will be a matter of getting the problem identified and then corrected. Unfortunately, sometimes these things take awhile and then other times it is a matter of a few minutes.

We appreciate the time DISH Network customers take to email their audio/video quality concerns. Thank you for your patience, information, and for being a valued customer.


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## exp1orer

Thank God i found this thread. This has been driving me crazy for months. At first I thought it was my old 622 causing the problems then i moved the 622 to a different room and got a 722 with the same stuttering audio, so i thought it must be my receiver, Then I recorded the same Simpsons show and it was very noticeable on both. (unwatchable on the one connected to my receiver) It's definitely worse when connected to my receiver (Pioneer Elite) than just hdmi straight to the TV but not good in either case. It's almost like the receiver is jumping in and out of Dolby Digital or something. All I know is it's driving me nuts!


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## phrelin

danicus007 said:


> Okay here's the link to my video on YouTube:
> 
> Notice the receiver going nuts around the 25 second mark.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is this the problem everyone is seeing??


Hard to hear, but it sounds like the problem. The significant identifier most are seeing is that when you skip back on the dropouts they occur again, but frequently in a slightly different spot on a slightly different syllable.


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## marius

the fix better come in the form of a software download. This problem started fairly recently for me. Maybe at most a month or two ago. So it had to be one of the updates that caused it.


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## phrelin

marius said:


> the fix better come in the form of a software download. This problem started fairly recently for me. Maybe at most a month or two ago. So it had to be one of the updates that caused it.


Since it involves both 622's and 722's and did not occur last year at this time, it likely will be a software download.

If not it would be an incredibly large and expensive equipment recall coincidentally happening on two models with a variety of manufacturing dates apparently only in a few DMA's involving a few local HD channels, but not all the local HD channels in the DMA.


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## exp1orer

One more thing. The one time I can always bank on it to skip is during a football game when the announcer uses the telestrator. Every time they draw on the screen it drops audio. This is true 100% of the time. I don't know what happens digitally when they go to the telestrator but I was hoping this might be a clue for someone with more knowledge of it.


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## behrozrahmani

danicus007 said:


> Also I didn't notice this problem before the TurboHD upgrade.


I agree
My problems started right after the TurboHD Upgrade.
The problem seems to be only on local channels.
Has anyone switch to the 118.7? If so do you have the same problem?
the reason for this question is: when changing to dish 1000+ you will get your
local channels on 118.7. Interesting to know if there is a connection.


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## mulder5000

behrozrahmani said:


> Has anyone switch to the 118.7? If so do you have the same problem?
> the reason for this question is: when changing to dish 1000+ you will get your
> local channels on 118.7. Interesting to know if there is a connection.


St. Louis locals are on the 118.7 and many of us have the audio problems.


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## moman19

behrozrahmani said:


> I agree
> My problems started right after the TurboHD Upgrade.
> The problem seems to be only on local channels.
> Has anyone switch to the 118.7? If so do you have the same problem?
> the reason for this question is: when changing to dish 1000+ you will get your
> local channels on 118.7. Interesting to know if there is a connection.


Only a handful of markets get their locals from 118.7. St. Louis is one of them, but markets that get their locals from other birds (San Fran & Seattle for example) are also reporting this issue. So I don't think there is an association there.

Also, this issue appeared right after release 4.49, which was BEFORE the official TurboHD upgrade.


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## 24dB/octave

Just got finished checking out tonight's Simpson broadcast on the SF feed. The audio was almost as bad as last week. It was not watchable using the HDMI interface -- I had to watch using the analog audio interface, but even that was frustrating. I may have to start recording on standard definition, but that raises the question "why did I buy a large-screen high def TV & get a high-def Dish receiver?" Ah...my Blueray player works great with the high-def TV!


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## bort269

it's sad, but at this point I would have settled for that!

we had a power outage in Seattle yesterday due to winds and when the power came back our Dish blacked out soon after!

since then our box has been all messed up, we don't get any HD, local, international channels and most top 250 channels either...

and Dish won't send anyone until tuesday (unless I wanna pay $125 to get a local guy to come and try to fix it)

they said if it wasn't for our 90 day warranty, they would charge us for coming on tuesday as well!

man I wish Setanta Sports was on Digital Cable :-(


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## phrelin

bort269 said:


> it's sad, but at this point I would have settled for that!
> 
> we had a power outage in Seattle yesterday due to winds and when the power came back our Dish blacked out soon after!
> 
> since then our box has been all messed up, we don't get any HD, local, international channels and most top 250 channels either...
> 
> and Dish won't send anyone until tuesday (unless I wanna pay $125 to get a local guy to come and try to fix it)
> 
> they said if it wasn't for our 90 day warranty, they would charge us for coming on tuesday as well!
> 
> man I wish Setanta Sports was on Digital Cable :-(


Hopefully, it was the wind "repointing" your dish away from the satellites, just enough to make most but not all signals essentially unavailable. The critical question for the Dish guy when he gets there is "why you" as one might suspect some bolts didn't hold.


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## phrelin

On different threads I've received different questions about the audio dropout which I finally found time to followup on.

In my initial report I said that my recordings from my ViP722 when moved via EHD to my ViP612 had dropouts when played. Per a question, I recorded Thursday's Ugly Betty (ABC KGO 7) on my ViP612. It appears to play without dropouts on my ViP612, but when moved to my ViP722 and played it was unwatchable because there were so many dropouts.

And, in response to another question, the dropouts occur when the show is watched on our kitchen TV from the ViP722's TV1 analog coax RF output.


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## danicus007

phrelin said:


> On different threads I've received different questions about the audio dropout which I finally found time to followup on.
> 
> In my initial report I said that my recordings from my ViP722 when moved via EHD to my ViP612 had dropouts when played. Per a question, I recorded Thursday's Ugly Betty (ABC KGO 7) on my ViP612. It appears to play without dropouts on my ViP612, but when moved to my ViP722 and played it was unwatchable because there were so many dropouts.
> 
> And, in response to another question, the dropouts occur when the show is watched on our kitchen TV from the ViP722's TV1 analog coax RF output.


Just watched last Thursday night's Ugly Betty on my 722 in North Carolina and it dropped out as badly as the week before. I'm connected via HDMI from 722 -> AVR -> TV.

This is getting really old really fast.


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## phrelin

Now I have a problem. I been hearing some slight audio dropout in channels other than ABC and Fox locals. Nothing real obvious, but it was there. Tonight on NCIS (recorded from the San Francisco local CBS local KPIX 5) there was a significant dropout during the previews for next week which I could "skip" back on and have dropout again but in different spots.

Sigh.... Yes, I reported it to Echostar Engineering.


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## Ron Barry

For people reading this thread there is more another thread that contiains more info for the San Fran area. I just closed that thread to avoid the cross posting but feel it contains valuable information related to this thread. I suggest all parties interested in this issue to read both.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=1827403#post1827403


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## Todd Nicholson

I saw this reply from Dish in another post on another forum. The bold section is slightly encouraging.

"Thank you for your information! Our Software Team for the 622/722 receivers is still working on this issue. To investigate this issue, our Software Engineering team is currently dissecting some of the boxes that we have retrieved from customers. The fix will most likely come in the form of a software download. We have been looking into the issue diligently and trying to get it resolved. It will be a matter of getting the problem identified and then corrected. *We have received word that progress is being made by the Software team who are addressing this problem. As with any receiver software upgrade this includes development and testing prior to any release to customers. We are confident that a fix is on the way but as yet have no definite date.*"


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## phrelin

Yes, it does appear they may be making some progress. I received the following answer to my latest update to Echostar Engineering:


> Hello (me),
> 
> We are still working very hard on this issue and really appreciate your feedback, your receiver and Moman's receiver have been extremely helpful to us, I forward all of your information to the responsible engineer and he does follow up. Unfortunately these types of fixes do take a little time and thorough testing is required before we can release it. We really appreciate all your help and patience.
> 
> Thanks again,
> 
> (Engineering Supervisor)


No expression of a "Eureka!" moment, but I guess they don't do that until they have a solution tested to make sure it doesn't flip the picture upside down or something.


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## rexa

It seems that most believe the audio drop problem started with FW version 5.11. Is there any resource that lists when the various versions began to appear on 622 or 722 DVRs?

Barring that, I'm trying to figure out when this problem first started. Was it early June?


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## phrelin

rexa said:


> It seems that most believe the audio drop problem started with FW version 5.11. Is there any resource that lists when the various versions began to appear on 622 or 722 DVRs?
> 
> Barring that, I'm trying to figure out when this problem first started. Was it early June?


Actually, it seemed to start with 4.49. Take a look at this 03-20-08 post and the one that follows it.

I didn't notice it back then. In correcting the myriad of problems that seemed to be created by 4.49, the 5.XX releases may have worsened it. Who knows? All I know is that by the time they released 1080p VOD for the handful of customers who wanted it (and apparently an even fewer who can use it), this particular network TV HD local station audio problem became severe in a number of DMA's.


----------



## mulder5000

rexa said:


> It seems that most believe the audio drop problem started with FW version 5.11. Is there any resource that lists when the various versions began to appear on 622 or 722 DVRs?
> 
> Barring that, I'm trying to figure out when this problem first started. Was it early June?


The first problem I had was with 5.10, way back in early June. This was not just audio, but video as well. Video would break up and audio would drop out (at the same time) on delayed or recorded programs, but not live.

The video part of this problem was quickly fixed with 5.11, but I've had the audio problems ever since.


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## BobaBird

rexa said:


> Is there any resource that lists when the various versions began to appear on 622 or 722 DVRs?


See http://www.dishuser.org/622sw.php and 722sw.php.


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## bort269

phrelin said:


> Hopefully, it was the wind "repointing" your dish away from the satellites, just enough to make most but not all signals essentially unavailable. The critical question for the Dish guy when he gets there is "why you" as one might suspect some bolts didn't hold.


you were right!
Since I have 2 dishes, one small and one large, and they attached the large one to the tripod of the small one and then bolted the tripod to 3 cinder blocks, the big dish acted like a sail and moved the cinder blocks!

My balcony is on the top level and we get a ton of wind so I know this will happen again. For now, I drew around the blocks with a permanent marker and will try to realign them if they move again, but if this keeps happening I'll make them give me 2 tripods before my 90 day warranty is up!

Thanks for the good prediction, phrelin!


----------



## rexa

rexa said:


> Is there any resource that lists when the various versions began to appear on 622 or 722 DVRs?





BobaBird said:


> See http://www.dishuser.org/622sw.php and 722sw.php.


Super! Thanks. I think I had been to that site before but I forgot about it.


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## snakeoiler

I'm in St. Louis and having the audio dropouts on local channels, also. ABC and FOX have the most dropouts. NBC and CBS don't seem to be as bad. This has been going on since mid-summer. I did notice that while watching something live there are no dropouts. But, if I rewind a minute or so to rewatch a scene, the dropouts start.


----------



## mannycastaneda

Just wanted to confirm that I've been facing the same issue here in Miami for several months - like everyone else, FOX and ABC are the worst - sometimes unwatchable. I first thought it was a HDD problem. After reading this thread, it's clear it's a software glitch.


----------



## 24dB/octave

mannycastaneda said:


> Just wanted to confirm that I've been facing the same issue here in Miami for several months - like everyone else, FOX and ABC are the worst - sometimes unwatchable. I first thought it was a HDD problem. After reading this thread, it's clear it's a software glitch.


Let Dish know...the more squeeky wheels they hear from, the more likely we are to get their attention.


----------



## rolybert

mannycastaneda said:


> Just wanted to confirm that I've been facing the same issue here in Miami for several months - like everyone else, FOX and ABC are the worst - sometimes unwatchable. I first thought it was a HDD problem. After reading this thread, it's clear it's a software glitch.


I am glad I read this as dumbass Dish was about to replace my unit again. ( I hate when this happens as I lose all my stuff) You would think the tech support people would know about this issue and could say we are working on it.:sure:

I have already missed the season premier of Simpsons and Family guy

I hope they have this crap fixed by next summer when they will re run:sure:

BTW does muddled audio on tv land have anything to do with this issue? usualy changing my receiver to Neural surround corrects it.


----------



## rolybert

24dB/octave said:


> Let Dish know...the more squeeky wheels they hear from, the more likely we are to get their attention.


Unfortunatly this does not help much when the tech support people are clueless and suggest receiver replacement:sure: which of course does nothing as the same damm software comes on the replacement


----------



## phrelin

rolybert said:


> Unfortunatly this does not help much when the tech support people are clueless and suggest receiver replacement:sure: which of course does nothing as the same damm software comes on the replacement


Actually, would be helpful if everyone who has this audio dropout problem would let [email protected] know. The complaints posted here up to recently seemed to indicate this was a problem limited to a few designated market areas (DMA's) which could constitute "clues" when trying to solve the problem. Though perhaps I missed someone on a thread, it appears we now have a report from mannycastaneda in the Miami area that he's had the problem for several months.

I don't understand how Dish Quality fits into the picture, but for this problem they are coordinating communications with customers. It is clear that complaints to CSR's go into a black hole. Tech Support folks (who aren't CSR's) are helpful, but each has his or her own experience and training and when nothing works to fix the problem, they'll send you a replacement box, a refurb coming out of Texas that has a 50% chance of working in my experience. How this all gets organized into a report that says "Hey, we've got a serious problem with the XYZ123 model" I don't know. And I don't know how each Tech Support person is informed that a particular problem is, in fact, a software problem Echostar Engineering is struggling with. It would be interesting to see an organizational flow chart related to customer reports of problems.

All I can tell you is that on this audio dropout problem, Echostar Engineering is working on it and Dish Quality is the information gathering point.


----------



## 24dB/octave

rolybert said:


> I am glad I read this as dumbass Dish was about to replace my unit again. ( I hate when this happens as I lose all my stuff) You would think the tech support people would know about this issue and could say we are working on it.:sure:
> 
> I have already missed the season premier of Simpsons and Family guy
> 
> I hope they have this crap fixed by next summer when they will re run:sure:
> 
> BTW does muddled audio on tv land have anything to do with this issue? usualy changing my receiver to Neural surround corrects it.


You can always record the standard-definition-feed for the time being where the audio seems to be just fine. (Of course I cringe as I say that!) Also, try listening to your audio via the analog outputs from your Dish receiver. While the drop outs are still there, they seem to be of shorter duration so it's not quite as bad to listen to.


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## 356B

My problem with audio drop out did not begin until about a month ago, over the summer though I was getting unreliable reception on sat 110, in the mornings I would have no reception until around 10-11pm. Now this audio drop has rendered my recording habits on ABC and FOX to SD which is acceptable for now but not what I expected and am paying for. I wonder what Dish TV's position is on that, clearly they are not providing services which are promoted and charged for, hopefully this will be resolved very soon. I have contacted all the engineering departments within Dish I'm aware of.


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## phrelin

356B said:


> My problem with audio drop out did not begin until about a month ago, over the summer though I was getting unreliable reception on sat 110, in the mornings I would have no reception until around 10-11pm. Now this audio drop has rendered my recording habits on ABC and FOX to SD which is acceptable for now but not what I expected and am paying for. I wonder what Dish TV's position is on that, clearly they are not providing services which are promoted and charged for, hopefully this will be resolved very soon. I have contacted all the engineering departments within Dish I'm aware of.


:welcome_s

Hi neighbor -

Well, no one's reported any offers from Dish to reimburse, say, $3 a month or something. I wasn't aware of any problem with 110, but I rarely look at anything at that time of day.

Anyway, as you can see from this thread and the Bay Area Folks: Audio drops on Fox and ABC thread, two of us (one Bay Area and one St. Louis) have sent our boxes in to Dish Engineering at their request to help them figure the problem out. So they are working on it.


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## 356B

Thanks for the welcome, 
I did say I just noticed this phenomenon in the last month but thinking, I generally don't record much during the summer months, like another said, "it seems to have started around TurboHD introduction whatever that really is. 
There must be hundreds if not thousands of effected customers, and with the scramble or so it seems for satellite TV dominance Direct TV could be loving this if they know it's going on, or, if they don't have the same or a ugly situation of their own. Regardless Dish beats Comcast by a mile.....at least around here.
take care


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## plasmacat

Late last night on my TV2 I briefly tried watching a movie on TNTHD and the audio was non stop stutter and dropouts - totally unwatchable. Other channels were fine. Don't know if this was a TNT problem or the Fox/ABC problems in the Bay Area have extended to other channels.


----------



## dmspen

This is getting bad. It seems that every Fox and ABC show have stuttering. In fact, it seems worse than ever. I can't remember the last show I watched where there wasn't sound issues. Some shows are so bad that it's hard to follow the dialog.


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## phrelin

Anyone else in the Bay Area seeing a few dropouts on CBS KPIX 5, like on NCIS last night? When I started complaining about the problem, it didn't seem like I saw dropouts on CBS, which is the third HD from San Francisco/Oakland (NBC is in San Jose).

And I'm getting the dropout on my 612, though not nearly as bad as on the 722.


----------



## moman19

phrelin said:


> Anyone else in the Bay Area seeing a few dropouts on CBS KPIX 5, like on NCIS last night? When I started complaining about the problem, it didn't seem like I saw dropouts on CBS, which is the third HD from San Francisco/Oakland (NBC is in San Jose).
> 
> And I'm getting the dropout on my 612, though not nearly as bad as on the 722.


Funny. I am seeing the same here in St. Louis. I never had dropouts on CBS before but this is quickly becoming the worse offender. It's really amazing that you and I continue to experience the same issues. How is it that so many of thousands of others are not??????

I find the number of audio drops on CBS are perhaps fewer in a given hour but much more pronounced. An entire word of two may be flat out muted.


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## 356B

I recorded on Fox last night, House and Fringe, programing was watchable but during commercial breaks audio drops were noticeable. ABC remarkably seems OK for last nights recording of Eli Stone. Weird.......


----------



## mulder5000

moman19 said:


> Funny. I am seeing the same here in St. Louis. I never had dropouts on CBS before but this is quickly becoming the worse offender. It's really amazing that you and I continue to experience the same issues. How is it that so many of thousands of others are not??????
> 
> I find the number of audio drops on CBS are perhaps fewer in a given hour but much more pronounced. An entire word of two may be flat out muted.


I don't watch anything on CBS. Is there a particular show you have experienced this on? I can record it next week and see if it happens for me, too.


----------



## moman19

mulder5000 said:


> I don't watch anything on CBS. Is there a particular show you have experienced this on? I can record it next week and see if it happens for me, too.


Good idea. Check out The Unit on Sunday nights. Let's see if the same words or syllables drop. I see this clearly on both my DVRs and it would be interesting to see if two viewers in the same market but different homes experience the same phenomenon.


----------



## Kevin Brown

I also just emailed Dish, and I got the response back that they know about the problem, a few users have sent their eqp in to them that they are looking at (!), and they should have a software solution soon.


----------



## phrelin

moman19 said:


> Good idea. Check out The Unit on Sunday nights. Let's see if the same words or syllables drop. I see this clearly on both my DVRs and it would be interesting to see if two viewers in the same market but different homes experience the same phenomenon.


I record The Unit as part of my season shifting block, so let me know what you see and I'll compare cross-market.


----------



## Grandude

I get the dropouts on FOX and CBS, channels 2 and 5 here in the bay area too. Sometimes really bad, sometimes not so bad. 
For now I try to watch live on those channels but not always possible so will put off watching the recorded ones until a software or whatever is needed fix comes along. Hopefully I will then be able to watch the shows in all their glory.


----------



## moman19

phrelin said:


> I record The Unit as part of my season shifting block, so let me know what you see and I'll compare cross-market.


Will do.


----------



## audiomaster

Received this today from Dish;

<Thank you for your information and patience! As you know from the forums we are aware of the issue. Our Software Team for the 622/722 receivers is still looking into it. To investigate this issue, our they are currently dissecting some of the boxes that we have retrieved from customers. The fix will most likely come in the form of a software download. They have been looking into the issue diligently and trying to get it resolved. It will be a matter of getting the problem properly and fully identified and then corrected. We have received word that progress is being made. Our latest contact with the Software team was yesterday so we know they are still pursuing this problem actively. As with any receiver software upgrade this includes development and testing prior to any release to customers. We are confident that a fix is on the way but as yet have no definite date.>


----------



## Dr. Cool

My VIP622 HD got almost full again and for the second time dropouts appeared to increase in frequency. Then I deleted a few programs and for the second time the dropouts appeared to be less frequent. Really bizarre.


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## hfthomp

I am also seeing the audio dropout problems with my VIP 722 here in St. Louis. It is crazy annoying. Like everyone else is saying, it only occurs when I'm watching recorded HD shows. My VIP722 is hooked up to my receiver with a TOSLINK optical cable. Any news on a solution to this?


----------



## moman19

hfthomp said:


> I am also seeing the audio dropout problems with my VIP 722 here in St. Louis. It is crazy annoying....... Any news on a solution to this?


Welcome to the dance! This is definitely on their hit list and hopefully, we'll hear something soon. I too, live in St. Louis and they are ripping apart my DVR as we speak.


----------



## calipup

After working with tech support for over 2 hours yesterday on this exact same problem and the nice yet clueless rep telling me that it's a problem with my audio receiver. i found this thread. I emailed the [email protected] email address with all of my information and requested an update. I also let them know that they really need to educate their tech support personnel as to this issue so it doesn't frustrate the end user when he finds out the problem on his own from the internet forums. also if it seems to be less problematic when the HD receiver is not 100% full could this be a good way to get the $39.99 external HD charge waived so that there is at least a small band-aid in place  I'm certainly going to try when i get home tonight.

Update. They credited me the External HD fee. hopefully this keeps the audio blips at a more manageable level.


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## feffer

hfthomp said:


> I am also seeing the audio dropout problems with my VIP 722 here in St. Louis. It is crazy annoying. Like everyone else is saying, it only occurs when I'm watching recorded HD shows. My VIP722 is hooked up to my receiver with a TOSLINK optical cable. Any news on a solution to this?


That's my setup too, but I've noticed that disconnecting my surround sound and sending the sound directly through the TV speakers seems to help. The gaps are still there, but a little less noticeable probably because the AV/R isn't constantly powering up and down. It may be an alternative to recording in SD. Test it on your system.

 Phrelin wondered in an earlier post if Dish was compensating people for this problem. I had a different billing issue with Dish, and talked to a so-called "win-back" agent. After my initial issue was settled, I asked about the substandard sound problem on Fox and ABC. They gave me a $5/mo credit for the next 5 months. Frankly, I'd way rather have good sound than the credit, but perhaps it wouldn't hurt if the Dish billing department knew this was a significant problem.


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## JackDobiash

This problem has started for me about 3 weeks ago, on KPTV (FOX, Portland) the HD feed. Like others, it's only on delayed or recorded material, live always seems to be fine. The things I've noticed it on were Sundays Animation Block (Simpsons, Family Guy, American Dad) and The Sarah Connor Chronicles. I'm going to check the other locals and see if happens on them as well. One of my co-workers who also has a 622 says that KATU (ABC, Portland) is doing it as well.


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## Kevin Brown

1) I need to call to get my EHD set up, maybe I'll bug them for a discount because of this problem. 

2) I go direct to my plasma with the red/white RCA lines for audio. I still have the dropouts.


----------



## moman19

I have found no association between available disk space and the audio dropout count. In fact, when I sent my 722 to Engineering with flawed events, it only contained a few hours worth of events. The vast majority of the drive was free yet the few events stored on it contained audio dropouts. In addition, most folks seem to report that the dropouts primarily appear on the HD locals.

Why the HD locals????? The answer to this question is probably the key to this puzzle. I'm guessing it's related to some "silent" signal (perhaps used to cue up commercials or to communicate with affiliates) somehow interfering with the DVR.

Just a hunch......


----------



## 356B

Last night, all the HD local networks, ( ABC, CBS, NBC and FOX) were off air from 10pm to 11 pm, no sound, no picture (black screen) yet the info worked and my recording continued. Also USA and History was blank, everything was OK in SD and with the exception of the listed channels HD seemed nominal / normal; what's up with the locals ?, the recording issues returned with a vengeance on ABC Thursday evening. I'm calling Dish and try to get some compensation for this problem, maybe if enough people call and demand compensation the fix will come.

Update: 
I called dish and filed a report, I requested and received a credit for local channels, I would suggest everyone experiencing this phenomenon call, complain, and request compensation.


----------



## phrelin

356B said:


> Last night, all the HD local networks, ( ABC, CBS, NBC and FOX) were off air from 10pm to 11 pm, no sound, no picture (black screen) yet the info worked and my recording continued.


Yep. My 1 hour "recordings" of Life (NBC) and Numbers (CBS) contain some end credits and previews for next week for both shows and 11 pm news previews.:nono2:

And the audio Thursday was indeed bad.


----------



## danicus007

calipup said:


> Update. They credited me the External HD fee. hopefully this keeps the audio blips at a more manageable level.


I called Dish and complained about the problem today but the rep told me she couldn't credit me for the External HD fee and that the problem was not HDD space and I should change my cable. I asked to speak with a supervisor and after explaining the problem she agreed to waive the fee. $40 to turn on the ability to add our own hard drive is absurd anyway.


----------



## einstein

Yes, I am here to chime in with the audio dropouts on DVR (622). 

I've just sent an email to Dishnetwork; also wrote them about not getting HD local channels last night (some of us like to stay home Friday nights and watch TV -- HD TV). 

Anyway, we are still having DVR audio drops on HD Channels: Family Guy (FOX) and Ugly Betty (ABC). They were worst than ever before -- this has got to get fixed or I'm dropping them!

Whew - I'm almost feeling better!

Also posted in satelliteguys forums and there's no solution there.


----------



## 356B

danicus007 said:


> I called Dish and complained about the problem today but the rep told me she couldn't credit me for the External HD fee and that the problem was not HDD space and I should change my cable. I asked to speak with a supervisor and after explaining the problem she agreed to waive the fee. $40 to turn on the ability to add our own hard drive is absurd anyway.


Could you explain the external hard drive situation, what fee? and I assume you are adding a stand alone unit to the receiver/DVR....I take it this adds hours more of recording time? in HD also? If my assumptions are correct what hard drive have you adapted?
Thank you


----------



## danicus007

356B said:


> Could you explain the external hard drive situation, what fee? and I assume you are adding a stand alone unit to the receiver/DVR....I take it this adds hours more of recording time? in HD also? If my assumptions are correct what hard drive have you adapted?
> Thank you


I have the 722, but I assume the other models are the same. Anyway, there's a USB port on the back of the unit and this allows you to connect an external hard drive to add more storage space to your DVR. In order to use an external drive, Dish has to enable the feature.....for the low low price of $40 (can you say rip-off?). I called and asked them to waive the fee because of all these audio problems.

You can connect any external hard drive that has a USB connection. Not sure if there is a size limit or not. I plan on adding a 250 GB since that's what I have lying around.


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## phrelin

There is a thread External Hard Drives That Work and Dish says the limit is 750GB, but some are using certain 1TB drives they say work.


----------



## 356B

Thanks to both for the information.


----------



## 24dB/octave

In addition to my previously-reported dropouts on FOX & ABC on the SF feed, my wife just told me she was getting some audio dropouts on CBS on a daytime soap. Also on that soap, she got the black screen/no audio that was reported last night.

On the other hand, if I had my druthers, she wouldn't be wasting time watching a soap -- just like she would say I shouldn't be waisting my time on the internet...!


----------



## Dr. Cool

feffer said:


> That's my setup too, but I've noticed that disconnecting my surround sound and sending the sound directly through the TV speakers seems to help. The gaps are still there, but a little less noticeable probably because the AV/R isn't constantly powering up and down. It may be an alternative to recording in SD. Test it on your system.
> 
> Phrelin wondered in an earlier post if Dish was compensating people for this problem. I had a different billing issue with Dish, and talked to a so-called "win-back" agent. After my initial issue was settled, I asked about the substandard sound problem on Fox and ABC. They gave me a $5/mo credit for the next 5 months. Frankly, I'd way rather have good sound than the credit, but perhaps it wouldn't hurt if the Dish billing department knew this was a significant problem.


Yes, I also noticed the same: dropouts are there but are less noticeable when using the analog RCA connection. If you pay attention you can hear them, but it's a very short muting so most people will not hear them under normal listening conditions.
I believe receivers connected with TOSLINK react more strongly because they need to reprocess the stream once they lose it, so the drops become more noticeable.


----------



## moman19

Dr. Cool said:


> .....I believe receivers connected with TOSLINK react more strongly because they need to reprocess the stream once they lose it, so the drops become more noticeable.


True. When the audio drops out, the Dolby Digital pilot light on my audio system briefly flashes. As a result, the Dolby logic in the receiver momentarily loses its mind (I suppose) and tries to "find" the missing audio by dropping to analog Dolby or stereo. This tends to accentuate the issue whenever you listen to the audio thru a home theater setup.

Dropouts that occur while listening only thru the TV's internal stereo speakers do tend to be much less severe. If you really want to hear how bad the issue is, try listening to a damaged event thru a set of headphones plugged into your home theater.


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## dipdog21

As many of you have some what noted the real (serious) problem arises with the digital connection between your sat receiver and surround sound receiver . When your surround sound receiver losses sync with the digital signal it takes a split second for it to regain sync thus a dead spot in the audio track you hear. If you disconnect the digital connection and hook up just the analog cables you will still hear a slight drop out but it will not be a complete loss of audio like you hear with the digital audio connection. Thus the way I have somewhat worked around this problem is to also wire the analog connections to the same input on my surround sound receiver that the sat digital hookup is on. Most surround allow you to change between the signal you listen to. Usually they are digital, analog and auto. I leave my setup in auto until there is some kind of stuttering problem then I switch over to analog. Mind you this is a temp. work around and does not totally get rid of the glitching but I can now actually hear what is going on. Also I have noticed that this dosen't only happen on recordings I have also had this happen when I do a 6 second skip back until I reset it to live tv.


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## bort269

356B said:


> Update:
> I called dish and filed a report, I requested and received a credit for local channels, I would suggest everyone experiencing this phenomenon call, complain, and request compensation.


I concur!
I just called and after explaining to the poor tech support guy the deal 
"did you try unplugging your box?" 
"YES... trust me, I emailed and got a response from echostar!"

he finally just wrote up my report and credited me 1 month of local channels, and I'll call next month if they don't fix it by then!


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## JackDobiash

To add to my initial post a page back, KOIN (CBS, Portland) doesn't appear to having these issues, but FOX definately still is. The SD channel appears to be fine (i'm assuming they'd get a lot more complaints as well if it were affecting both). I have some stuff from KGW (NBC, Portland) recorded but I haven't watched it yet. I'll let ya know how it goes.


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## Dood

So where does the "fix" stand?

The drop outs are so bad now that I can't stand watching any recorded show. Tonight, Two and a Half men had 102 drops outs!

I am ready to drop Dish, this is total bull****.


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## moman19

Dood said:


> So where does the "fix" stand?
> 
> The drop outs are so bad now that I can't stand watching any recorded show. Tonight, Two and a Half men had 102 drops outs!
> 
> I am ready to drop Dish, this is total bull****.


I can now identify dropouts on all four local HD channels. AND IT'S ONLY THE LOCALS.

So I find that it's getting worse rather than better. Hopefully, they are tweaking something and monitoring this forum for the results.


----------



## mulder5000

moman19 said:


> I can now identify dropouts on all four local HD channels. AND IT'S ONLY THE LOCALS.
> 
> So I find that it's getting worse rather than better. Hopefully, they are tweaking something and monitoring this forum for the results.


I recorded The Unit on Sunday - due to football, I only got the first 15 minutes, but I still got an hour of total CBS programs. I skipped around a bunch, but during the time I watched, I didn't notice any dropouts during the actual shows. I did hear one about 50 minutes in, during a Pride and Glory trailer. i watched maybe 10 minutes overall, so I easily could have missed something.

Is there a specific place you remember hearing a dropout that I could check?

NBC, so far, has been good to me. Chuck, Heroes, and the Office have all been dropout free.


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## moman19

mulder5000 said:


> I recorded The Unit on Sunday - due to football, I only got the first 15 minutes, but I still got an hour of total CBS programs. I skipped around a bunch, but during the time I watched, I didn't notice any dropouts during the actual shows. I did hear one about 50 minutes in, during a Pride and Glory trailer. i watched maybe 10 minutes overall, so I easily could have missed something.
> 
> Is there a specific place you remember hearing a dropout that I could check?
> 
> NBC, so far, has been good to me. Chuck, Heroes, and the Office have all been dropout free.


The football game mucked things up for me as well but I have not yet had time to check. Save what you have and I'll get around to it soon. My kids were watching Heroes last night time-shifted and I think they heard a few dropouts. I'll check that too.

I have noticed a few drops during commercials on Leno. Frankly, this does not bother me but it raises the concern of dropouts now on that channel too.

I know things are bad when the wife notices and keeps asking me why we put up with this.


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## Dood

I just had to delete 13 programs because the audio drop-outs were so bad that I couldn't watch them.

I am giving Dish Network 24 hours to right the ship or I am canceling service. This is not acceptable and there ARE other options.


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## ruffledrooster

I'm also in the St. Louis area and until fairly recently I hadn't read about all of the audio dropout stuff...I think mostly because I usually don't watch much on the local channels during the summer. I have noticed more dropouts on CBS lately, particularly during Two and a Half Men. Last night was actually pretty good, but the previous few weeks were pretty bad. I haven't had a chance to watch most of my FOX stuff yet, but I do remember some dropouts when I watched them about 3 weeks ago. It wasn't too degrading, as I could hear most of the show, it would just drop part of a work or the end of the sentence. NBC has been the best so far, as I haven't noticed anything on L&O:SVU yet. ABC has been fairly good the past week, but I only watch like one show on it. I did catch more of the The Unit this past week(about 45 min.) and I don't recall many dropouts. I don't have it on the drive still, but if I don't remember anything, then there probably weren't very many. I did also watch House from last week last night and I didn't notice very many, if any, dropouts on it.


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## Ron Barry

Dood said:


> I just had to delete 13 programs because the audio drop-outs were so bad that I couldn't watch them.
> 
> I am giving Dish Network 24 hours to right the ship or I am canceling service. This is not acceptable and there ARE other options.


What were the programs you deleted? Was there any one in particular that seemed to happen all the time.

As it was mentioned earlier, Dish is aware of the situation. They received two boxes from two users here and are dissecting them to try and determine root cause but these type of issues that are localized and random in nature are tough to track down and squash so if you are given dish a 24 hour ultimatum I would get the number handy because I doubt this will be fix within the next 24 yours.

Hopefully soon.. . But this one definitely is not in the easy to fix catagory for sure.


----------



## Dood

Ron Barry said:


> What were the programs you deleted? Was there any one in particular that seemed to happen all the time.
> 
> As it was mentioned earlier, Dish is aware of the situation. They received two boxes from two users here and are dissecting them to try and determine root cause but these type of issues that are localized and random in nature are tough to track down and squash so if you are given dish a 24 hour ultimatum I would get the number handy because I doubt this will be fix within the next 24 yours.
> 
> Hopefully soon.. . But this one definitely is not in the easy to fix catagory for sure.


I delete so many I can't remember them all.

Earl
The Office
Two and a Half men
Family Guy
House
Survivor
Etc...........

My 24 hour ultimatum remains. This has been going on for over 3 weeks. When I call customer service, they act like this is the first they have heard of the issue.

Like I said, I do have options and have no loyalty to any service provider.


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## moman19

Dood said:


> ......Like I said, I do have options and have no loyalty to any service provider.


Hey Dood, give it some time. None of the service providers are perfect. You might just be trading problems and the new problems may be bigger. Hang in there. This will get fixed. BTW, your avatar doesn't contain your location. What city are you living in? This issue seems to be limited to perhaps a handful of markets. Are you on the West Coast or St. Louis?


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## phrelin

Dood said:


> I delete so many I can't remember them all.
> 
> Earl
> The Office
> Two and a Half men
> Family Guy
> House
> Survivor
> Etc...........
> 
> My 24 hour ultimatum remains. This has been going on for over 3 weeks. When I call customer service, they act like this is the first they have heard of the issue.
> 
> Like I said, I do have options and have no loyalty to any service provider.


Actually, for many this has been going on for over 3 months.

I too do have options, just none very desirable.


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## 356B

Dood said:


> I delete so many I can't remember them all.
> 
> Earl
> The Office
> Two and a Half men
> Family Guy
> House
> Survivor
> Etc...........
> 
> My 24 hour ultimatum remains. This has been going on for over 3 weeks. When I call customer service, they act like this is the first they have heard of the issue.
> 
> Like I said, I do have options and have no loyalty to any service provider.


You can record in SD....that audio seems normal, picture isn't so pretty though.....I've been told that DirectTV is having problems with DVR freezes, seems this HD technology has a few growing pains to sort out. Perhaps I'm naive but I figure they'll solve this sooner than later.....


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## NTIMID8

Ron Barry said:


> As it was mentioned earlier, Dish is aware of the situation. They received two boxes from two users here and are dissecting them to try and determine root cause but these type of issues that are localized and random in nature are tough to track down and squash so if you are given dish a 24 hour ultimatum I would get the number handy because I doubt this will be fix within the next 24 yours.
> 
> Hopefully soon.. . But this one definitely is not in the easy to fix catagory for sure.


They have been aware for over 4 and almost 5 months and have failed to do anything about it!

Recently aquiring 2 boxes when people have had issues for this long says a lot about a company.

Phil


----------



## bort269

mulder5000 said:


> Is there a specific place you remember hearing a dropout that I could check?


the new 8pm episode of The Simpsons on sundays ALWAYS had horrible, unwatchable dropouts.

I have 2 local HD fox channels in Seattle and they both always have it, I have to watch the simpsons live or else I resort to fox.com :-(

as for giving up after 24 hours, good luck with that! They've known about this for a while and I doubt they will care about losing you. I don't mean this as a diss, I just don't think Dish really gives a **** or else they would have put more effort into fixing this problem months ago!
I hope whatever you change to works better for you (and dish lets you break any long-term contract you might have), good luck!


----------



## hfthomp

For the past two nights after 10pm (central time) I've noticed that my HD locals were out. I called Dish last night, and the customer service lady I talked to said they are they are working on some audio and video issues in my area (St. Louis). They must switch them back on because I recorded a few shows in primetime last night, unfortunately the audio dropouts were still there.


----------



## moman19

hfthomp said:


> For the past two nights after 10pm (central time) I've noticed that my HD locals were out. I called Dish last night, and the customer service lady I talked to said they are they are working on some audio and video issues in my area (St. Louis). They must switch them back on because I recorded a few shows in primetime last night, unfortunately the audio dropouts were still there.


I too, noticed all four HD locals were out at 10PM for the past two nights. However, signal remained strong on the 118 bird. It would be nice to know that this was due to their working to resolve the dropout issue, but that may be wishful thinking. Why would they take down the channels for adjustment during a peak viewing period instead of say, 3 AM?


----------



## phrelin

moman19 said:


> I too, noticed all four HD locals were out at 10PM for the past two nights. However, signal remained strong on the 118 bird. It would be nice to know that this was due to their working to resolve the dropout issue, but that may be wishful thinking. Why would they take down the channels for adjustment during a peak viewing period instead of say, 3 AM?


For reasons unknown, on Friday 10/17 the satellite (not OTA) Bay Area hd channels went down from 9:58-10:58 pm. Didn't solve any problems I could see but screwed up 4 recordings for me (no end on the 9-10 shows and only an end on the 10-11 pm shows).:nono2:


----------



## feffer

I'm using an AV/R with a digital-audio connection as are others that have reported here. Are some of you using an AV/R with an HDMI connection? I'm curious if HDMI is better, worse or the same.

Over the weekend, the football game on ABC was fine, but it was an ESPN production running on ABC. I fast forwarded through commercials but didn't notice problems during the game.


----------



## moman19

mulder5000 said:


> I recorded The Unit on Sunday - due to football, I only got the first 15 minutes, but I still got an hour of total CBS programs. I skipped around a bunch, but during the time I watched, I didn't notice any dropouts during the actual shows. I did hear one about 50 minutes in, during a Pride and Glory trailer. i watched maybe 10 minutes overall, so I easily could have missed something.
> 
> Is there a specific place you remember hearing a dropout that I could check?
> 
> NBC, so far, has been good to me. Chuck, Heroes, and the Office have all been dropout free.


Hey, Mulder,

I realized the football game would affect timing of The Unit, so I padded it a full hour. Tonight, I finally found time to view the show. While last week's episode contained many obvious, annoying dropouts, this one had NONE. Go figure......

Now I must wonder if the time of day (night?) matters, is Dish doing some tweaking to the bird or was this just a temporary fluke. Surely, the software rev level of my DVR hasn't changed.


----------



## danicus007

Last night I watched my recording of Fringe from my local Fox affiliate. Zero dropouts. However, when I watch King of the Hill or The Simpson's on Fox it's nothing but constant drop outs. Very odd. So far it's only bad for me on ABC and FOX. No problems with CBS & NBC.


----------



## Todd Nicholson

I notice the same. It seems that if the show is actually HD, there are no drop outs, but if the show is not HD (like the Simpsons) or the commercials are not HD, there are drop outs.


----------



## plasmacat

Todd Nicholson said:


> I notice the same. It seems that if the show is actually HD, there are no drop outs, but if the show is not HD (like the Simpsons) or the commercials are not HD, there are drop outs.


This is not the case. Last night Pushing Daisies in HD had very bad dropouts throughout the show.


----------



## phrelin

Recent Fox HD dropouts on the show, as opposed to commercials, have been far fewer for me, but the frequency of dropouts on ABC HD shows has been constant though usually close to the commercial break. For those two networks I'm using my 612 which, for some reason, the dropouts are more instantaneous and don't cause the dolby on my AV/R to switch off then back on which is what happens with the 722.

moman19, I haven't had a chance to look at The Unit, but Tuesday's NCIS here in the Bay Area had a couple.


----------



## mulder5000

moman19 said:


> Hey, Mulder,
> 
> I realized the football game would affect timing of The Unit, so I padded it a full hour. Tonight, I finally found time to view the show. While last week's episode contained many obvious, annoying dropouts, this one had NONE. Go figure......
> 
> Now I must wonder if the time of day (night?) matters, is Dish doing some tweaking to the bird or was this just a temporary fluke. Surely, the software rev level of my DVR hasn't changed.


I'll record it again next weekend (with a bit of extra padding) just in case last week was a fluke.


----------



## rexa

For the newcommers... If you go back far enough in this list you will see all of what I am about to say, but many of you will not do that, so here is my version of a checkpoint summary...

The main thread of the the problem seems to be problems on recorded programs, not real time. It seems to only involve shows that come from local channels.

The problem only affects shows that are sent up and back to the local subscriber via a Dish network satellite. If you get the same show on a local antenna direct from the staion it is fine.

Now, if the local station comes down from the dish satellite, the signal may be bad or not. All SD broadcasts on the SD channel are ok. The only problem is with HD broadcasts. 

All HD broadcasts from local channels via Dish are not bad. Only some are and some suck big time. Some only have a few dropouts but many are filled with dropouts.

The content of the video on the programs with problems clearly has an affect on the audio dropouts, but not clearly enough to say exactly what may or may not cause the thing to happen. A clear thing that seems to correlate is graphics or generated media. So maybe this is in line with the cartoon shows.

I have never seen a problem worth reporting that wasn't a local channel sent up-and-back and wasn't HD. Other issues may exist but they are not major.

I suspect that if we could actually see what kind of encoding was coming to uor receivers (the HD format) we might know more about the problem, but as far as I know, we can't determine this.

This group has a short timeout.

Wish I wasn't so bummed with Dish Network. They don't really seem to want to acknowledge or support their customers.

FTDN


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## rexa

This is a message to the Forum managers. This group has a short timeout.

That probably didn't make any sense to everyone. What I was trying to say is that this forum has a very short timeout on your existence. If you are posting like I am now, and you stop to think, or consult other information, or do anything beyond typing your basic stream of consionness type of post, then clearly you are on the borderline of just a clean post.

Usually I type all my stuff then capture it so I can paste it back after I log in again.

Prolly cut and paste again.


----------



## Dr. Cool

I have random dropouts with recorded local OTA shows, like PBS NOVA. However, I don't have dropouts with local OTA FOX shows like Terminator. On the other hand, *I have* dropouts with some of the Dish provided movie channels such as HDNet Movies. It appears that they are more common when picture quality is excellent. I had them for example with movies such as Papillon and Heavy Metal.
Again, those are not signal problems. The dropouts will never repeat themselves at the same location when I rewind.


----------



## mulder5000

Todd Nicholson said:


> I notice the same. It seems that if the show is actually HD, there are no drop outs, but if the show is not HD (like the Simpsons) or the commercials are not HD, there are drop outs.


I have noticed that dropouts are usually worse for SD shows/commercials on the HD channels. I do get dropouts on HD shows, but not at the frequency of the SD shows.

For some reason, some HD shows are worse than others. I always have more problems with Terminator than with Prison Break, even though they are back to back shows on the same channel (and I even record them with a single 2 hour event). Go figure.


----------



## moman19

mulder5000 said:


> I have noticed that dropouts are usually worse for SD shows/commercials on the HD channels. I do get dropouts on HD shows, but not at the frequency of the SD shows.
> 
> For some reason, some HD shows are worse than others. I always have more problems with Terminator than with Prison Break, even though they are back to back shows on the same channel (and I even record them with a single 2 hour event). Go figure.


This is probably why the fix is so elusive-----the symptoms are a moving target. I watched Fox News Sunday one week that was totally unlistenable but was flawless the following week. Same hardware, channel, etc.

The Unit on CBS did the same thing in the last two episodes. It's crazy.


----------



## Matt20V

356B said:


> You can record in SD....that audio seems normal, picture isn't so pretty though.....


I've tried this- must be doing something wrong as the recording is still in HD. Here is what I did. For last Sunday's Simpson's episode, I went into the DVR "to do list" menu and canceled the scheduled recording on the HD Fox channel 002-00. I then went into the channel guide and set a one-time recording on the on-HD channel 002-00. The recording was still in HD and exhibited the audio dropouts.

I initially thought I had inadvertently recorded from the channel 6xxx mapping of channel 2 with a higher priority than my 1-time timer from non-HD 002-00. So I played around again last night and very carefully tried to record from the non-HD channel 002-00. Again I got an HD recording. Is there some setup that I need to change to over-ride this?

TIA,
Matt


----------



## Todd Nicholson

Change the resolution option to SD only.


----------



## Surfingfool

My SD is jittery on non HD local via 622 over satellite watching live.

Recorded Americas Next Top Model OTA HD on Wed, but recoder shows "2" for recorded channel and is viewable. Smallville on same channel OTA the next day, shows "antenne" for recorded on, show it recorded, but is not on my list to watch.

Sound for me is also dropping, worst on ABC (bay area), but noticed it on CSI too. Also saw the jitters on CSI. Viewing via HDMI through receiver or watching TV via component gives the same results.


----------



## 356B

For me no amount of fiddling with any setting has yielded any difference in the drops. For me this is truly a signal transfer situation, I have resorted to SD recording which is nominal. ABC and FOX are the only locals I have witnessed, FOX seems to work well on programing but drops during breaks and commercials, annoying but workable; ABC at times is unwatchable !


----------



## NTIMID8

rexa said:


> The problem only affects shows that are sent up and back to the local subscriber via a Dish network satellite. If you get the same show on a local antenna direct from the staion it is fine.
> 
> FTDN


Actually, OTA HD is just as bad as Echo uplinked/resent content.


----------



## rexa

NTIMID8 said:


> Actually, OTA HD is just as bad as Echo uplinked/resent content.


Don't know what to tell you. Here in the SF Bay area when I record on my 622 from the OTA channels, I do not have the audio dropouts. From many of the satellite local HD channels I do.


----------



## mulder5000

rexa said:


> Don't know what to tell you. Here in the SF Bay area when I record on my 622 from the OTA channels, I do not have the audio dropouts. From many of the satellite local HD channels I do.


Same here, no dropouts on OTA channels.


----------



## ruffledrooster

I'll 3rd that, I haven't ever noticed any dropouts on OTA chanel's like I have on sat channels. 

On a side note, I noticed they took the STL locals offline both mornings this weekend...not sure how long. They were usually back up by the time football was on. I did watch The Unit from last night and it no dropouts that I noticed. I also watched House, Grey's Anatomy, and the Office from last week and I nothing on any of them either. The only difference was that the Unit came off of the 61.5 instead of 118.7...though I know the locals were down on the 61.5 this past weekend as well.


----------



## moman19

ruffledrooster said:


> I'll 3rd that, I haven't ever noticed any dropouts on OTA chanel's like I have on sat channels.
> 
> On a side note, I noticed they took the STL locals offline both mornings this weekend...not sure how long. They were usually back up by the time football was on. I did watch The Unit from last night and it no dropouts that I noticed. I also watched House, Grey's Anatomy, and the Office from last week and I nothing on any of them either. The only difference was that the Unit came off of the 61.5 instead of 118.7...though I know the locals were down on the 61.5 this past weekend as well.


Receiving the St. Louis locals from 61.5 is a brand new happening. In fact, I was unaware this was even possible at this date. So, I have a few questions if you don't mind:

1. How are you able to "see" both 61.5 and 118.7? Do you have a Dish 1000+ and a fifth dish pointed at 61.5?
2. How would you know which satellite The Unit was received from?


----------



## olds403

I just upgraded from SD to HD gold w/AT250 last week, got Platinum free for 3 months. I have one dish 500 pointed at 61.5, and another at 110/119. Got a new 722 in single mode connected to my tv w/HDMI and to audio receiver w/optical. 

I am getting audio dropouts on most of my HD satellite channels(HDnet, MGMhd, UniversalHD, etc...). I have also noticed it on my OTA channels running through the 722. I haven't noticed it on SD but have not been watching much SD to be able to tell or sure.


----------



## 356B

olds403 said:


> I just upgraded from SD to HD gold w/AT250 last week, got Platinum free for 3 months. I have one dish 500 pointed at 61.5, and another at 110/119. Got a new 722 in single mode connected to my tv w/HDMI and to audio receiver w/optical.
> 
> I am getting audio dropouts on most of my HD satellite channels(HDnet, MGMhd, UniversalHD, etc...). I have also noticed it on my OTA channels running through the 722. I haven't noticed it on SD but have not been watching much SD to be able to tell or sure.


Contact Dish and complain, ask for compensations, the more of us who do maybe something will be done.  
356B


----------



## moman19

olds403 said:


> I just upgraded from SD to HD gold w/AT250 last week, got Platinum free for 3 months. I have one dish 500 pointed at 61.5, and another at 110/119. Got a new 722 in single mode connected to my tv w/HDMI and to audio receiver w/optical.
> 
> I am getting audio dropouts on most of my HD satellite channels(HDnet, MGMhd, UniversalHD, etc...). I have also noticed it on my OTA channels running through the 722. I haven't noticed it on SD but have not been watching much SD to be able to tell or sure.


Most of the reports on this thread related to audio dropouts are associated with HD locals via Satellite. If you are experiencing audio dropouts on all the HD channels, I would assume something else is going on. This could be anything from a faulty DVR, to a bad optical cable or possibly some incompatibility between the DVR and your home theater. Try connecting your audio with a set of analog RCA cables. If you hear no dropouts, the issue is probably local to your setup.

Out of curiosity, do the dropouts occur on both the TV (HDMI) and the audio receiver (optical) simultaneously?

I would call Dish Network, report my findings and request a replacement DVR. Hopefully, you'll have an easy fix.


----------



## ruffledrooster

moman19 said:


> Receiving the St. Louis locals from 61.5 is a brand new happening. In fact, I was unaware this was even possible at this date. So, I have a few questions if you don't mind:
> 
> 1. How are you able to "see" both 61.5 and 118.7? Do you have a Dish 1000+ and a fifth dish pointed at 61.5?
> 2. How would you know which satellite The Unit was received from?


Not at all, my main setup is with a 1000+...I also have a 1000.2 on a tripod that I use when I am camping or tailgating or whatnot. I also have a dish 500 that I have left over from many years ago. Last Thursday I saw the uplink reports that said that STL locals were being downlinked and available so I thought I would try using that sat this week to see if there was any difference. Basically I have my 500 pointed at the 61.5 and it's connected to my 1000.2, which is then connected to my 722 only. So I can confirm it's only using the 61.5 since that's the only way it's able to get to the local HD channels. I confirmed the outage on the 118.7 using one of my 211's.


----------



## olds403

I am not using the TV for audio, all audio goes to my Yamaha RX-V2095 via optical cable. The optical cable is good as I used it previously for the optical out from my Sony KDS-60A3000 to the same input on the receiver and experienced no dropouts. The input on the receiver has had no previous issues handling the optical signal from my TV's OTA tuner so I doubt that it is the receiver. 

The dropouts are random and last probably 1 second or less, enough to miss a word of dialog in a movie. I have noticed them on HD satellite channels, OTA HD channels, and today I noticed it on an OTA HD show that I was watching that had been recorded on the DVR, I am going to do some more testing to see if I can get it to repeat in the same place. That would tell me if it is signal related or something in the audio out of the 722.


----------



## phrelin

olds403 said:


> I am not using the TV for audio, all audio goes to my Yamaha RX-V2095 via optical cable. The optical cable is good as I used it previously for the optical out from my Sony KDS-60A3000 to the same input on the receiver and experienced no dropouts. The input on the receiver has had no previous issues handling the optical signal from my TV's OTA tuner so I doubt that it is the receiver.
> 
> The dropouts are random and last probably 1 second or less, enough to miss a word of dialog in a movie. I have noticed them on HD satellite channels, OTA HD channels, and today I noticed it on an OTA HD show that I was watching that had been recorded on the DVR, I am going to do some more testing to see if I can get it to repeat in the same place. That would tell me if it is signal related or something in the audio out of the 722.


Keep us informed of your experiments here. It will be particularly interesting if you report a dropout from OTA that when skipped back changes syllables. So far OTA is said to be without the dropout.


----------



## moman19

olds403 said:


> I am not using the TV for audio, all audio goes to my Yamaha RX-V2095 via optical cable. The optical cable is good as I used it previously for the optical out from my Sony KDS-60A3000 to the same input on the receiver and experienced no dropouts. The input on the receiver has had no previous issues handling the optical signal from my TV's OTA tuner so I doubt that it is the receiver.
> 
> The dropouts are random and last probably 1 second or less, enough to miss a word of dialog in a movie. I have noticed them on HD satellite channels, OTA HD channels, and today I noticed it on an OTA HD show that I was watching that had been recorded on the DVR, I am going to do some more testing to see if I can get it to repeat in the same place. That would tell me if it is signal related or something in the audio out of the 722.


Very interesting. It sounds like the OTA issue several others (including me) experience, but you're also getting it on satellite HD channels.

When you play back a damaged segment, do the dropouts appear in the EXACT same places, or can they shift syllables slightly? Example: can a long word like "encyclopedia" sound like "encyclo---ia" one moment, but when played back sound like "en---lopedia" the next time played?

Also, do you get dropouts when watching LIVE events, recorded events or both?


----------



## Dr. Cool

phrelin said:


> Keep us informed of your experiments here. It will be particularly interesting if you report a dropout from OTA that when skipped back changes syllables. So far OTA is said to be without the dropout.


Momam19, that's not correct, most of my audio dropouts happen with OTA locals, and they are random. I also have dropouts, although much less common, with some movies in national high PQ movie channels.


----------



## rexa

Well I hope that there is a common source to the problem and not several. Seems the symptoms may vary between areas or possibly receivers.

Wish there was a way that we could identify what type of HD signal we are receiving, like 720p or 1080i. There isn't any way to tell, is there?

So you guys who sent in your receivers have had no feedback at all? 

If so, typical. Pump in information that Dish may or may not be ignoring and get no feedback or random feedback. By random, I mean that the basic phone or email monkeys still tend to acknowledge no idea of this problem, while other parts say oh yes we know and engineering is getting a handle on it. That's bad management.

I'm getting more and more frustrated with many aspects of Dish.


----------



## moman19

rexa said:


> .........So you guys who sent in your receivers have had no feedback at all?


If the fix was simple, it probably would have been rolled out by now. By all the various symptoms and reports seen in this forum, a universal "cure" may take time and require further testing. I doubt E* Engineering went thru the hassle of swapping receivers with subscribers just to place them on the shelf.


----------



## phrelin

rexa said:


> So you guys who sent in your receivers have had no feedback at all?
> 
> If so, typical. Pump in information that Dish may or may not be ignoring and get no feedback or random feedback. By random, I mean that the basic phone or email monkeys still tend to acknowledge no idea of this problem, while other parts say oh yes we know and engineering is getting a handle on it. That's bad management.
> 
> I'm getting more and more frustrated with many aspects of Dish.


On October 10 I got the following update email from Echostar Engineering:


> Hello [phrelin],
> 
> We are still working very hard on this issue and really appreciate your feedback, your receiver and Moman's receiver have been extremely helpful to us, I forward all of your information to the responsible engineer and he does follow up. Unfortunately these types of fixes do take a little time and thorough testing is required before we can release it. We really appreciate all your help and patience.
> 
> Thanks again,
> 
> [Engineering Supervisor]


I haven't heard from them since then, but obviously they haven't yet sent any fix. Dish Quality is forwarding info to them though my guess is that many, if not most, phone reports to Tech Support disappear down a rathole.

moman19's observations are correct. They are having difficulty fixing this one.

To give a time frame, however, I didn't report my problem until 8/25/2008 pointing out to them that the new season was about to start and that ABC HD and Fox HD were virtually unwatchable in a number of DMA's. By the middle of September they asked for our boxes because they couldn't recreate the problem. It took two refurbs shipped to me from Texas before I'd let go of my old one that worked. Dish Engineering got mine on 9/29/2008. They've only had month to try to figure out why the recordings are affected and fix it.

I don't envy them. Watched "live" the problem doesn't occur even though, as you know, the "live" stream is cached on the drive so you can skip or rewind back. Recorded to the drive, the recorded data stream has audio dropout when played back, but the audio dropout "moves" when skipped back and replayed.

And to add to my confusion, my ViP612 is also getting audio drops but they are more like clicks and are annoying but don't cause the dolby decoder on my A/V receiver to shut down and restart which happens with my ViP722, and they sometimes disappear when skipped back and replayed.

I'd hate to be those engineers who have gone to work for a couple of months struggling with this one problem knowing that there are probably thousands of upset customers thinking Dish Network is incompetent. However, my empathy isn't in infinite supply as I have some other problems I want them to deal with.


----------



## phrelin

I sent the following email to the Engineering Supervisor this morning:


> Just want to let you know that the dropouts are now on my ViP612, essentially as annoying instantaneous dropouts that don't cause the dolby digital decoder on my A/V receiver to reset and which sometimes disappear when replayed after skipping back. I use my ViP612 for ABC and Fox and my ViP722 for CBS and NBC. I get some audio dropout on all four, though NBC tends only to be when leading into a commercial break. Don't know why the Toslink output from the two receivers is different
> 
> Is there any update from your end? New reports of experiences and continued discussion of frustration is occuring on DBSTalks at ViP622/ViP722 - L5.12/L6.10/L6.12/L6.14 Audio Related Issues and Intermittent sound gaps .


Got the following reply, courteous but not at all promising:


> Thanks [phrelin], I forwarded your information to the managers on both projects.
> 
> Thanks again,


Oh well.


----------



## Dood

So they have been working on this issue for over a month and still no solution? Seems like either they don't really care or they have incompetent employees.

I am calling DirecTV and seeing what they have to offer me to switch.

My audio drop outs are so sever that it is impossible to watch recorded programs.


----------



## moman19

phrelin said:


> I sent the following email to the Engineering Supervisor this morning:
> 
> "...I get some audio dropout on all four, though NBC tends only to be when leading into a commercial break."


Funny, we live a half-continent apart and I can report the exact same experience. One must wonder why 10,000 other subs aren't reporting this. Only recently has the local NBC affiliate started to contain dropouts. And it's almost always when leading into or out of a commercial break. It happens within 30 seconds before or after the break. And when I hit the REPLAY button, the dropout most definitely moves to a different word or syllable---or disappears completely. Hit REPLAY again and it's back!

Someone should be able to determine what's going on here. It's easy to duplicate.

Do you have OTA capability? I recorded simultaneous events on sat and OTA. When I "capture" a dropout I check the OTA version to see if there is any hint of similarity. I can report that I have never seen the dropouts duplicated on the OTA version.


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## olds403

Well, watching HDNetMovies today, A River Runs Through it, I noticed a couple of isolated audio dropouts. I was watching live tv at the time. When I rewound it to see if the dropouts persisted in the same places, I got many more dropouts. It was unintelligible at that point. When I skipped forward and caught up with live tv it went away. So it seems to be related to the buffer, and is not in the original signal. Hopefully some progress will be made soon in tracking the problem down.


----------



## DaGnome

Not sure if this has been mentioned in the ohh so many pages  (I've not read them all myself).

However if any DIsh people are reading this for more info.. I noticed that the dropout ONLY occurs on my Optical Out and not on my Coax. 

I have two TVs hooked up and last week when "Eli Stone" had so many dropouts I couldn't understand what was being said, I decided to try to see if it was available online via PC. While I was searching in that room I turned on the TV there (which is my coax fed) and sure enough it had NO dropouts. This was from a recorded program obviously. 

So then I started playing and running back and forth between the rooms noting where the dropouts were happening and every time my Optical would drop, but the coax would not. 

Again, this might be common knowledge.. but just though I'd mention it in case no one had noticed it before. (Not many still use the coax anymore heh)


----------



## bort269

wow... today the new Simpsons had NO SOUND and video dropouts live!!

I was forced to watch it in SD :-(


----------



## DNSFSS

bort269 said:


> wow... today the new Simpsons had NO SOUND and video dropouts live!!
> 
> I was forced to watch it in SD :-(


I noticed that too! Glad that I stopped what I was watching to catch the Treehouse of Horror live...was able to change the recording to SD and only lost a minute of the show. This is starting to become a bunch of BS (Especially from the technicians standpoint), I'm going to all of these service calls because the call center will deny any problems (129 sat, audio issues, etc) and then they basically call me a liar and as soon as I leave they call E* and then another trouble call is set up, affecting my numbers. Then we go back again and tell them the same thing, then it happens all over again to someone else. I'm getting really tired of explaining the 129 dropout issues and always hearing "Why should I be paying for something that I can't even watch?" And I know that the customers don't believe me but I just tell them that I know what I would do if I was paying for something and not getting it, and that's all that I can do. At least from my house I can shoot the 61.5 right through my neighbor's trees, but the audio should be fixed. Why can't they just go back to previous releases where they know there wasn't a problem? Ok...filibustering is over. :lol:


----------



## hohlraum

Are you guys calling/emailing asking for refunds? I pay way too much $$ per month to have to deal with this BS.


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## yovinman

O.K., here is my theory (and if it has been stated before, my apologies): I think there is some kind compression issue going on. Perhaps Dish is trying to squeeze too many HD shows on a limited pipe. But I can't help but feel that some HD shows are getting compressed to the point that not all the data is getting thru and hence we are getting bit errors. Perhaps they are squeezing the audio since they can't squeeze the video any more without dropping it to SD quality. This may explain why coming in or out of commercials is the worst since I bet that is where they are really compressing things. Why Fox and ABC? Not sure but do they broadcast in 1080i vs. 720p? Food for thought. Perhaps there is nothing Dish can do unless they take something off the plate or add bandwidth which is why they are stalling on a fix.


----------



## Todd Nicholson

Yep, recorded Simpsons also had no sound. I'll have to watch online......


----------



## bort269

Todd Nicholson said:


> Yep, recorded Simpsons also had no sound. I'll have to watch online......


it got fixed a couple minutes into Family Guy (I skipped King of the Hill but the opening credits of FG had no sound, then it finally came on... with clipping of course!)


----------



## Spondy17

Just a quick newb (although I have looked around a lot about this issue in the past week) question. My 722 has audio dropouts which progress to video dropouts which lead to lockups of the system that clear eventually but make performance extremely sluggish. 

I have done several soft and hard reboots without improvement. This primarily seems to happen when I am watching a "time banked" or buffer shows (after pausing a show for awhile). When watching live I don't seem to get the problem. Additionally it seems to be predominately a problem with my NBC HD feed but has happened with other stations. 

So is this the now infamous audio dropout problem (with video stutter/speedup) and I should wait till E* patches or am I having a different problem and need to archive my shows and call support? 

Sorry for the long winded post, I just didn't see a post that described the "audio dropout problem" exactly and was wondering if it was what happening to my 722.

Thanks for any info...


----------



## olds403

I have not had any video dropouts or lockups on my 722, just the occasional short audio dropouts. I did notice that pausing and rewinding to see if I could reproduce the same dropout at the same place in a recording did make it much worse. If I go back to live tv the problem goes away, so it seems to be recording/buffer related. I have not been able to reproduce the exact same dropout twice, which leads me to believe it is not in the original signal. I have been having the problem on national HD channels, HDNet, HDNetMovies, MGMHD, UniversalHD, etc... I do not watch any satellite locals, all my locals are OTA.


----------



## 356B

"I do not watch any satellite locals, all my locals are OTA."

The local channels are the problem......ABC and FOX. 
356B


----------



## olds403

I have not noticed any major issues with my OTA HD fox or abc locals. I have dvr timers set for both and I get occasional dropouts but not nearly as bad as my national HD channels.


----------



## Spondy17

I have occasional dropouts/slowdowns/lockups with OTA for PBS but the other OTA's seem to be fine. I've even had it with SD channels.


----------



## plasmacat

hohlraum said:


> Are you guys calling/emailing asking for refunds? I pay way too much $$ per month to have to deal with this BS.


I did call and got a $30 refund for not being able to watch the locals that I am paying for. Please - everybody bombard them with calls and demand refunds. This problem better be fixed by the time Lost comes back.
I called tech service.


----------



## 24dB/octave

I turned on ABC tonight to see the election returns -- SF feed. IT'S AWFUL! Lots of audio breakups on delayed playback.

Dish gets my NO vote.


----------



## TVBob

24dB/octave said:


> I turned on ABC tonight to see the election returns -- SF feed. IT'S AWFUL! Lots of audio breakups on delayed playback.


For me the audio drop-out problem on my ViP722 has a definite pattern:
Most common on KGO (ABC 7) and KTVU (FOX 2), San Francisco Bay Area, satellite HD channels. Both are 720p, MPEG-4 sources.
Never observed on KNTV (NBC 11) or KPIX (CBS 5) 1080i MPEG-4 satellite HD channels.
Never observed in any OTA (MPEG-2) recordings, either 720p or 1080i
Never observed in any Satellite SD recordings (also MPEG-2)
*Most common when lots of solid colors suddenly appear on the screen* (e.g. _The Simpsons_, or any solid graphic such as weather maps, or election maps, with large areas of solid colors).
Most common during delayed playback, or playback of recordings.
Extremely rare when watching live
Present on all audio outputs (optical, analog)
Instant Replay causes audio to drop-out in a different place, so it's a playback problem, definitely not a recording problem
Never observed on ViP211.
*Summary*

The ViP722 has audio stream timing problems when there is a big jump up and then down in the bit rate of 720p MPEG-4 video streams, such as when a lot of solid colors suddenly appear on the screen and stay there.

*Possible Causes*

Audio/video buffering issues, I/O channel issues.

I once tested a DVD video product from a failed start up company. I noticed lots of jumpy video during MPEG-2 playback of certain fast-moving scenes. This problem was eventually traced to DMA I/O channel contention issues. By using a different dedicated DMA channel for disk I/O, the problem disappeared.

This Dish problem feels very similar, but it is manifesting itself as audio glitches rather than video glitches.

If anyone is in contact with the Dish engineering team, please ask them to read this post. Thank you.


----------



## 24dB/octave

TVBob said:


> For me the audio drop-out problem on my ViP722 has a definite pattern:
> Most common on KGO (ABC 7) and KTVU (FOX 2), San Francisco Bay Area, satellite HD channels. Both are 720p, MPEG-4 sources.
> Never observed on KNTV (NBC 11) or KPIX (CBS 5) 1080i MPEG-4 satellite HD channels.
> Never observed in any OTA (MPEG-2) recordings, either 720p or 1080i
> Never observed in any Satellite SD recordings (also MPEG-2)
> *Most common when lots of solid colors suddenly appear on the screen* (e.g. _The Simpsons_, or any solid graphic such as weather maps, or election maps, with large areas of solid colors).
> Most common during delayed playback, or playback of recordings.
> Extremely rare when watching live
> Present on all audio outputs (optical, analog)
> Instant Replay causes audio to drop-out in a different place, so it's a playback problem, definitely not a recording problem
> Never observed on ViP211.
> *Summary*
> 
> The ViP722 has audio stream timing problems when there is a big jump up and then down in the bit rate of 720p MPEG-4 video streams, such as when a lot of solid colors suddenly appear on the screen and stay there.
> 
> *Possible Causes*
> 
> Audio/video buffering issues, I/O channel issues.
> 
> I once tested a DVD video product from a failed start up company. I noticed lots of jumpy video during MPEG-2 playback of certain fast-moving scenes. This problem was eventually traced to DMA I/O channel contention issues. By using a different dedicated DMA channel for disk I/O, the problem disappeared.
> 
> This Dish problem feels very similar, but it is manifesting itself as audio glitches rather than video glitches.
> 
> If anyone is in contact with the Dish engineering team, please ask them to read this post. Thank you.


TVBob,

Funny you should mention the dropouts being worse when lots of solid colors appear...the problems I reported on the ABC election returns happened when there was a lot of solid blue in the background behind the talking heads. Also the Simpsons, which I've reported as bad has lots of solid colors.

I hope phrelen is reading this -- his units is one of the eval units shipped into Dish & he's been in contact with the tech folks there.

--Alan


----------



## phrelin

TVBob said:


> For me the audio drop-out problem on my ViP722 has a definite pattern:
> Most common on KGO (ABC 7) and KTVU (FOX 2), San Francisco Bay Area, satellite HD channels. Both are 720p, MPEG-4 sources.
> Never observed on KNTV (NBC 11) or KPIX (CBS 5) 1080i MPEG-4 satellite HD channels.
> Never observed in any OTA (MPEG-2) recordings, either 720p or 1080i
> Never observed in any Satellite SD recordings (also MPEG-2)
> *Most common when lots of solid colors suddenly appear on the screen* (e.g. _The Simpsons_, or any solid graphic such as weather maps, or election maps, with large areas of solid colors).
> Most common during delayed playback, or playback of recordings.
> Extremely rare when watching live
> Present on all audio outputs (optical, analog)
> Instant Replay causes audio to drop-out in a different place, so it's a playback problem, definitely not a recording problem
> Never observed on ViP211.
> *Summary*
> 
> The ViP722 has audio stream timing problems when there is a big jump up and then down in the bit rate of 720p MPEG-4 video streams, such as when a lot of solid colors suddenly appear on the screen and stay there.
> 
> *Possible Causes*
> 
> Audio/video buffering issues, I/O channel issues.
> 
> I once tested a DVD video product from a failed start up company. I noticed lots of jumpy video during MPEG-2 playback of certain fast-moving scenes. This problem was eventually traced to DMA I/O channel contention issues. By using a different dedicated DMA channel for disk I/O, the problem disappeared.
> 
> This Dish problem feels very similar, but it is manifesting itself as audio glitches rather than video glitches.
> 
> If anyone is in contact with the Dish engineering team, please ask them to read this post. Thank you.


I emailed your post to the Echostar Supervising Engineer. Though they are aware of this thread, I have no idea how often they look at it and thought you observations were worth emphasizing.


----------



## JackDobiash

It's interesting that FOX and ABC seem to be the main ones across multiple DMAs, it's the same with me here in the Portland DMA. ABC and FOX are pretty bad sometimes while NBC and CBS are usually fine.


----------



## Rob Glasser

I can tell you that Dish is aware of the audio dropout issue and as far as I know they are working on it. I've been seeing the issues as well on all of my local DishHD channels (Seattle DMA) for quite some time.


----------



## phrelin

I received a response the Supervisor I've been interacting with at Echostar Engineering:


> We follow the DBS Talk Forums including the audio drop issues thread. The software development team is testing a potential fix for the audio dropouts at this time, and we plan to have a production release sometime later this month.
> 
> Thanks again for all your help and patience,


Everyone needs to keep in mind that they are *"testing a potential fix"* which means somewhere in the testing it could fail. Each of us needs to pray or think positive or whatever you offer to do when someone is trying to overcome an obstacle in their life.


----------



## rexa

TVBob said:


> For me the audio drop-out problem on my ViP722 has a definite pattern:
> Most common on KGO (ABC 7) and KTVU (FOX 2), San Francisco Bay Area, satellite HD channels. Both are 720p, MPEG-4 sources.
> Never observed on KNTV (NBC 11) or KPIX (CBS 5) 1080i MPEG-4 satellite HD channels.
> Never observed in any OTA (MPEG-2) recordings, either 720p or 1080i
> Never observed in any Satellite SD recordings (also MPEG-2)
> *Most common when lots of solid colors suddenly appear on the screen* (e.g. _The Simpsons_, or any solid graphic such as weather maps, or election maps, with large areas of solid colors).
> Most common during delayed playback, or playback of recordings.
> Extremely rare when watching live
> Present on all audio outputs (optical, analog)
> Instant Replay causes audio to drop-out in a different place, so it's a playback problem, definitely not a recording problem
> Never observed on ViP211.
> *Summary*
> 
> The ViP722 has audio stream timing problems when there is a big jump up and then down in the bit rate of 720p MPEG-4 video streams, such as when a lot of solid colors suddenly appear on the screen and stay there.
> 
> *Possible Causes*
> 
> Audio/video buffering issues, I/O channel issues.
> 
> I once tested a DVD video product from a failed start up company. I noticed lots of jumpy video during MPEG-2 playback of certain fast-moving scenes. This problem was eventually traced to DMA I/O channel contention issues. By using a different dedicated DMA channel for disk I/O, the problem disappeared.
> 
> This Dish problem feels very similar, but it is manifesting itself as audio glitches rather than video glitches.
> 
> If anyone is in contact with the Dish engineering team, please ask them to read this post. Thank you.


Thanks for the very concise summary. It is exactly what I have observed and what I posted back in August. Similar speculation on the cause too.

One question: How did you determine the encoded HD format (720p, etc.)? Is this info you researched from some external source or do you know some way to see this from the Dish DVR's?


----------



## rexa

From my post at the end of Sept...



rexa said:


> Glad they are finally working with you guys to look at actual captured problem recordings. I have to say that I am not quite as optimistic that this will immediately provide the key that lets them create a fix and send it out. I offered in email to hook them up with examples back in August.
> 
> I would expect more stumbling and bumbling before they find it and fix it. Then we all get to wait until our turn for a download. I'd be really surprised if they fix anything for most of us sufferers before Christmas.


Good to hear they are testing a fix. I'd be happy to be proven pessimistic on my estimate, but considering the rate they usually roll out the new releases, I'm still not holding my breath.


----------



## Dood

I wonder if they will cancel any remaining fees associated for canceling early because they are not smart enough to fix the problem.


----------



## olguy

phrelin said:


> I received a response the Supervisor I've been interacting with at Echostar Engineering:
> Everyone needs to keep in mind that they are *"testing a potential fix"* which means somewhere in the testing it could fail. Each of us needs to pray or think positive or whatever you offer to do when someone is trying to overcome an obstacle in their life.


Maybe that's why the tech support guy I spoke with yesterday seemed to know what was going on. I told him I was having drop outs on all my locals whether recorded or live and they were worse on optical than HDMI. Even to the point of the Dolby decoder on my A/V receiver cutting off and on. He told me it was being worked on and he went ahead and turned in an engineering report without me asking for it.

And I appreciate you having worked so diligently to help them try to find the problem.


----------



## harmil2

Oh, if only we didn't like ABC....audio dropouts vary from show to show from KATU out of Portland, Or. Sometimes very bad on Fox where it also varies a lot from unwatchable to almost ok. NBC and CBS are flawless out of Portland, Oregon. Other pattern in the audio dropout issues I have noticed:

1. Tends to be worse early in the evening and gradually improve as the night wears on. By 10 pm shows are at least watchable. 

2. Often commercials during the worst of the dropout times will come through almost perfect?? Especially if national feeds. Locally done commercials can still have DOs.

3. Do Fox and ABC transmit in 720p still, and could this be a variable?

4. Never any problems with non local programs. All other SD and HDTV is fine.

5. I also notice the dropout are mostly bad on recorded material (622vip) and live feeds are mostly ok...But I love my tivo? and need it with my schedule!

6. Wife loves Ugly Betty, the Practice, and Grey's Anatomy..."when Mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy!" Why is it always the quy's fault when the TV doesn't work...? Still I do swear the most when the dropouts are really bad. (Glad I got that off my chest)


----------



## phrelin

I originally sent to Tech Support, Dish Quality and [email protected] the following email on August 25 precisely because I knew the grief I would get within my household from this problem:


> I think we've all been reasonably patient this Summer, but the new Fall Season is rapidly approaching. KGO and KTVU have both been notified of the problem now repeatedly described in this thread on DBSTalk _*Bay Area Folks: Audio drops on Fox and ABC*_ as well as in numerous other threads. The stations' engineering staffs are now indicating the problem is with your end. So please fix it.
> 
> Now that all the marketing is in place, let's get in there and make the TurboHD actually work.


 Facing a combination of revolution over the dropout and my unwillingness to watch SD, I finally replaced my two old owned trusty SD 508's for a ViP612 to record ABC and Fox HD because ViP612 owners weren't reporting the dropout problem (it's there, but for some reason it doesn't cause the dolby to switch off/on). So far the Bay Area CBS dropout hasn't become intolerable.

In retrospect, I'm sorry I didn't complain sooner, but I'm not sure a complaint would have been as effective until I could refer to the new fall season and actually making the TurboHD work given the marketing investment.

I know Engineering is really trying hard to fix this. So I'm trying to be patient despite the well-justified noises coming from my better half when dropouts occur.


----------



## harmil2

Well said and done Pharelin. I also am not willing to subject myself to SD. Maybe with such a great HiDef picture my wife can learn to lip read...


----------



## Dood

harmil2 said:


> Well said and done Pharelin. I also am not willing to subject myself to SD. Maybe with such a great HiDef picture my wife can learn to lip read...


Sorry, but when I pay for something, I expect it to be delivered. DishNet has failed.


----------



## plasmacat

There is a Dish tech forum tonight. Time to try calling in about the audio dropout problem.
I just fired off an email to the tech forum.


----------



## danicus007

plasmacat said:


> There is a Dish tech forum tonight. Time to try calling in about the audio dropout problem.
> I just fired off an email to the tech forum.


Please let us know what you find out. Here's hoping a fix is around the corner.


----------



## Dood

Good bye Dish Network. I gave you plenty of time to fix the problem, but you have failed.


----------



## olds403

Dood, your posts are not really helping get the problem fixed. If you are gone from dish go already, the rest of us would like to be productive and help dish get the problem taken care of.


----------



## plasmacat

Well of course the Tech Forum did not pick my email to answer. That would have let customers know there are problems with Dish TurboHD. I did not watch it live (had to watch the Niners game) so could not even try to call in.


----------



## TechnoCat

Dood said:


> Good bye Dish Network. I gave you plenty of time to fix the problem, but you have failed. It was a decent run while it lasted, but your customer service is atrocious and your tech team is lazy and uneducated.


Does this mean you've left Dish and we will never see another post from you in this thread?


----------



## 356B

Was the audio drop issue addressed last evening on the tech session? I tried to watch but kept flipping to the 49ers game among other things.:dozey: 
356B


----------



## Ron Barry

From the post on the thread discussing the Tech Chat, no it was not. There was some mention of a Nov 20th release (Not written in stone by any means) so that might that release could possible carry a fix. Key word possible since there was no mention that it would.

See thread below for onging discussion.
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=144956


----------



## Ron Barry

Ok guys.. lets stay on topic. I just removed a few posts because they were off topic and violated the "No Bash" rule of the support forums. The topic is the audio issues so lets keep to topic.


----------



## moman19

Ron Barry said:


> Ok guys.. lets stay on topic. I just removed a few posts because they were off topic and violated the "No Bash" rule of the support forums. The topic is the audio issues so lets keep to topic.


A big *Thank you!*


----------



## emandbri

Dood said:


> I wonder if they will cancel any remaining fees associated for canceling early because they are not smart enough to fix the problem.


I'm wondering this as well. My husband is very annoyed and it of course all my fault for deciding to go with dish.


----------



## stingray327

TVBob said:


> For me the audio drop-out problem on my ViP722 has a definite pattern:
> Most common on KGO (ABC 7) and KTVU (FOX 2), San Francisco Bay Area, satellite HD channels. Both are 720p, MPEG-4 sources.
> Never observed on KNTV (NBC 11) or KPIX (CBS 5) 1080i MPEG-4 satellite HD channels.
> Never observed in any OTA (MPEG-2) recordings, either 720p or 1080i
> Never observed in any Satellite SD recordings (also MPEG-2)
> *Most common when lots of solid colors suddenly appear on the screen* (e.g. _The Simpsons_, or any solid graphic such as weather maps, or election maps, with large areas of solid colors).
> Most common during delayed playback, or playback of recordings.
> Extremely rare when watching live
> Present on all audio outputs (optical, analog)
> Instant Replay causes audio to drop-out in a different place, so it's a playback problem, definitely not a recording problem
> Never observed on ViP211.
> *Summary*
> 
> The ViP722 has audio stream timing problems when there is a big jump up and then down in the bit rate of 720p MPEG-4 video streams, such as when a lot of solid colors suddenly appear on the screen and stay there.
> 
> *Possible Causes*
> 
> Audio/video buffering issues, I/O channel issues.
> 
> I once tested a DVD video product from a failed start up company. I noticed lots of jumpy video during MPEG-2 playback of certain fast-moving scenes. This problem was eventually traced to DMA I/O channel contention issues. By using a different dedicated DMA channel for disk I/O, the problem disappeared.
> 
> This Dish problem feels very similar, but it is manifesting itself as audio glitches rather than video glitches.
> 
> If anyone is in contact with the Dish engineering team, please ask them to read this post. Thank you.


I have the exact same problem. I just hooked up my replacement Vip722 DVR with the same problems.

I too notice it's really bad with recorded shows on Fox and ABC, namely Family Guy, Simpsons, and American Dad. They are watchable live without audio drop outs but then if I pause and play or play it after recorded it is filled with audio drop outs. Very unhappy...

Glad I'm not the only one having this problem.


----------



## phrelin

stingray327 said:


> I have the exact same problem. I just hooked up my replacement Vip722 DVR with the same problems.
> 
> I too notice it's really bad with recorded shows on Fox and ABC, namely Family Guy, Simpsons, and American Dad. They are watchable live without audio drop outs but then if I pause and play or play it after recorded it is filled with audio drop outs. Very unhappy...
> 
> Glad I'm not the only one having this problem.


:welcome_s

Glad to have your report, the first in Idaho I believe. Would you mind telling us where your HD locals coming from?

What's happening is that we are slowly being informed of the problem existing in more and more DMA's in all areas of the country which is important. Some of us initially thought we either must have gotten receivers from a bad batch or were just unfortunate to be located in an area where the locals weren't giving a compatible signal to Dish.

Hopefully, they will have a fix before the end of the month. But that's hope, not a promise from anyone.


----------



## Dood

phrelin said:


> Hopefully, they will have a fix before the end of the month. But that's hope, not a promise from anyone.


Not gonna happen.


----------



## stingray327

My local HD channels are Fox 28 KAYU in Spokane, WA and ABC KXLY in Spokane, WA as well.
My audio drop outs have been going on for over a month or longer. I had the old DVR set to record all new episodes of Family Guy, American Dad and Simpsons but all have audio drop outs so bad they are unwatchable.
My new replacement DVR does the same thing. An occasional audio drop out while live and horribly bad on a playback. But it's the worst with the cartoon shows on Fox.
I have to send back my other DVR tomorrow so I'll include a copy of this forum post as well.


----------



## exp1orer

I live in NC. and have been having this problem for months. I must admit though, i have rarely noticed it in the last few weeks. If at all. 

Maybe they fixed NC!!!!:hurah:


----------



## exp1orer

Also, I have an extra vip722. dish sent two by mistake. Can I hook up and use the second one? which will make my third box total? They were replacing a non hd box for a second hd box. they asked me if i wanted them to mail it or have the installer come out and install it. I said mailing it would be fine. then the installer showed up took my old one and put in a new vip-722. the next day another vip-722 showed up on my doorstep. I haven't opened it. suggestions?


----------



## danicus007

exp1orer said:


> I live in NC. and have been having this problem for months. I must admit though, i have rarely noticed it in the last few weeks. If at all.
> 
> Maybe they fixed NC!!!!:hurah:


I'm also in NC and still have the problem on FOX and ABC. NBC and CBS are fine though.


----------



## ericw2000

Here in Chicago, I see audio drops mostly in CBS (WBBM 2), and occasionally on ABC (WLS 7).


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## ItsDon

Just sent this e-mail off to [email protected]

----------------------------
I am having major audio problems with my VIP622. I get dropouts consistently while watching most of my HD programs recorded on the DVR. They are not recorded dropouts because if I rewind back and play the same scene I will get a dropout but in a different spot. This has been going on for months and my calls to Dish tech support have not yielded a viable solution. I have:

-	Done a soft reset
-	Unplugged the unit completely for 10 minutes and plugged it back in
-	Tried recording my shows from the OTA antenna instead of the Dish feed
-	Tried everything else your tech support team has suggested

Nothing has worked. The dropouts are intermittent, consistent and highly annoying. I have been a customer of Dish for nearly 10 years but am now thinking of moving to a more reliable provider as I don't feel I should have to suffer substandard service from a top-tier provider. Before I switch however I would like to know what your options to me are to keep me as a customer. Can this be fixed?
---------------------------------------

From reading this thread I know they know about this issue but I figured 'piling it on them' couldn't hurt. It's very frustrating to have to deal with but a little comforting to know I'm not alone 

I'll post their response when/if I get one.

**EDIT**

Well that didn't take long:

Thank you for expressing your concerns and interest in DISH Network. Customer input is an important tool in our efforts to continuously improve the quality of the DISH Network service.

We are aware of some audio issues with the 622/722 receivers. We are currently working on a fix. This may take some time so please be patient with us. Most likely the fix will come in the form of a software download. We are not sure of when that will happen but please know that we are diligently working on a solution.

We appreciate the time DISH Network customers take to email their audio/video quality concerns. Thank you for your patience and for being a valued customer.

---------------------

At least we know there are enough people complaining that they had to HAVE a canned message!


----------



## Kevin Brown

Knock on wood: I have the problem, but it's not that bad.


----------



## mthhurley

ericw2000 said:


> Here in Chicago, I see audio drops mostly in CBS (WBBM 2), and occasionally on ABC (WLS 7).


Same here....My wife is watching a recorded episode of Ghost Whisperer and the dropouts are constant....at least 1 every 20 seconds.


----------



## space86

I have my receiver hook up through HDMI and have not had the audio drop out.


----------



## harmil2

I am noticing some improvement...dropouts still there and annoying, but not as bad as they have been in the past on ABC and Fox DVR recordings. They have always varied so I am not saying the problem is improved long term and it still needs 100% fixing. Anyone else noticing even some improvement?


----------



## Dr. Cool

harmil2 said:


> I am noticing some improvement...dropouts still there and annoying, but not as bad as they have been in the past on ABC and Fox DVR recordings. They have always varied so I am not saying the problem is improved long term and it still needs 100% fixing. Anyone else noticing even some improvement?


Not better at all. Yesterday I had many dropouts with MGM HD movies. Hard disk was full, and as I said before, it appears to make the problem worse. Not sure however.


----------



## Spondy17

Does this audio problem cause the screen to pause/freeze and the timer on the program (prerecorded or time banked) to screw up. Realtime TV works fine but anything recorded or buffer can work or not work. Sometime I get a fast forward after waiting awhile of being stuck and then the sound can be out of sync. 

It all started with what has been described as an audio dropout but I'm not sure if I don't have a different problem. This problem literally freezes the controls and makes the unit....well frozen and unresponsive. I've even had it reboot on it's own. Not sure if this is the audio dropout problem or not.

Should I call for a replacement or wait of e* to come up with a patch? Also is it possible to put all my recorded stuff onto a external hard drive and when or if I get a replacement unit use my recordings on the new unit? I understand there is a charge for the hard drive setup of $40 but hopefully its not for every additional replacement unit. I have a feeling this could take awhile to get cleared up.  

Thanks for any input.....


----------



## phrelin

Spondy17 said:


> Does this audio problem cause the screen to pause/freeze and the timer on the program (prerecorded or time banked) to screw up. Realtime TV works fine but anything recorded or buffer can work or not work. Sometime I get a fast forward after waiting awhile of being stuck and then the sound can be out of sync.
> 
> It all started with what has been described as an audio dropout but I'm not sure if I don't have a different problem. This problem literally freezes the controls and makes the unit....well frozen and unresponsive. I've even had it reboot on it's own. Not sure if this is the audio dropout problem or not.
> 
> Should I call for a replacement or wait of e* to come up with a patch? Also is it possible to put all my recorded stuff onto a external hard drive and when or if I get a replacement unit use my recordings on the new unit? I understand there is a charge for the hard drive setup of $40 but hopefully its not for every additional replacement unit. I have a feeling this could take awhile to get cleared up.
> 
> Thanks for any input.....


The audio dropout has never caused the other problems you have described on my ViP722 or ViP612. If you have done a hard reboot (unplug your box) and it still does this, I'd call.

If you need to move recordings, get an EHD and call to have the current box EHD function activated. Activation will assign your account a code for your EHD(s). Then call Tech Support and tell them about your freeze up and timer screw up problems, don't begin with the audio dropout or you'll start getting the audio dropout canned response. They will probably send you a new box.

You could wait until the new software release which might, or might not, be sent sometime on or after November 20 or "soon", but I would not based on what I know about the audio dropout problem.


----------



## Slordak

harmil2 said:


> I am noticing some improvement...dropouts still there and annoying, but not as bad as they have been in the past on ABC and Fox DVR recordings. They have always varied so I am not saying the problem is improved long term and it still needs 100% fixing. Anyone else noticing even some improvement?


No, no improvement here. This has been broken for several months now, as far as I know. It's never a lengthy audio drop, just long enough to miss a word or two here and there. But it happens pretty frequently, and at this point is a pretty severe annoyance.


----------



## swooosh

I first noticed this during the Olympics and has it been so frustrating! Im in the Portland OR market and my audio problems only have been on these locals and I have only noticed it during Dolby Digital programming. I have a 622 and it happens in live mode and it embeds the audio errors onto the hard drive. Its amazing how its so hard for someone at tech support to understand what you are trying to tell them. So three refurbed 622's later still the same issues finally today tech tells me its a known issue and they are working on it. It just so frustrating!!!


----------



## Spondy17

phrelin said:


> The audio dropout has never caused the other problems you have described on my ViP722 or ViP612. If you have done a hard reboot (unplug your box) and it still does this, I'd call.
> 
> If you need to move recordings, get an EHD and call to have the current box EHD function activated. Activation will assign your account a code for your EHD(s). Then call Tech Support and tell them about your freeze up and timer screw up problems, don't begin with the audio dropout or you'll start getting the audio dropout canned response. They will probably send you a new box.
> 
> You could wait until the new software release which might, or might not, be sent sometime on or after November 20 or "soon", but I would not based on what I know about the audio dropout problem.


Phrelin...

Expert response and good advice thank you very much.


----------



## Slordak

This problem (i.e. brief but relatively frequent audio drop-outs) is not inherently restricted to locals or to programming recorded with older software versions. I've seen this on, say, "True Blood" recorded off HBO-HD as recently as just a few nights ago. Watching the episode, one will experience a good half dozen audio drop-outs (over the digital optical connection, with Dolby Digital). Each lasts no more than a second or two, but it's enough to miss a word or a piece of a sentence.

So, I want to put to bed the myth that this is restricted to locals, since that allows Dish Network to blame it on the individual affiliates. Instead, it is a universal problem that Dish Network introduced within the last few software versions, undoubtedly as a result of trying to fix something else.


----------



## stingray327

I've had to switch my recording of FOX shows to the non-HD channel and it works perfect there. The cartoons look fine in standard but still I want it all in HD. I still have audio dropouts.


----------



## 356B

stingray327 said:


> I've had to switch my recording of FOX shows to the non-HD channel and it works perfect there. The cartoons look fine in standard but still I want it all in HD. I still have audio dropouts.


Join the club, after viewing HD for a while now going back to SD for our favorite programming is ......well, limited. Hopefully Dish figures this out soon; I have admit I was a little concerned that the "Tech Session" on Dish the other evening steered way clear of it. Then again would they really want to advertise such a misstep. I believe I read Dish lost 50 million last quarter.:eek2: 
356b
Vip622


----------



## rexa

Slordak said:


> This problem (i.e. brief but relatively frequent audio drop-outs) is not inherently restricted to locals or to programming recorded with older software versions. I've seen this on, say, "True Blood" recorded off HBO-HD as recently as just a few nights ago. Watching the episode, one will experience a good half dozen audio drop-outs (over the digital optical connection, with Dolby Digital). Each lasts no more than a second or two, but it's enough to miss a word or a piece of a sentence.
> 
> So, I want to put to bed the myth that this is restricted to locals, since that allows Dish Network to blame it on the individual affiliates. Instead, it is a universal problem that Dish Network introduced within the last few software versions, undoubtedly as a result of trying to fix something else.


OK. I have heard that before from a few others, and maybe I have missed some of the other problems because I have not recorded the problem material, but it is NOT what I am experiencing here since mid-summer. Maybe there are variations or maybe there are some really bad boxes out there, but the most common problem symptoms do not seem to be what you are experiencing.

Regardless, it can't be pushed back to a problem at locals. It clearly originates somewhere under Dish control, because recordings via OTA of the same problem broadcasts are ok.

The best recent summary of the most common problem set was by TVBob on 11/05.


----------



## olds403

Actually Slordak pretty much nailed the audio problems I have been having on my 722 for the last month since I upgraded. I get dropouts on most of my national HD channels(I would say all but I haven't watched them all, but all that I do watch). I also get dropouts on my fox and abc HD locals that I receive OTA through my 722. I may also get them on cbs and nbc but I don't watch those networks so I have no evidence of that either. 

It boils down to having at least some audio problems on EVERY HD channel that I watch with AT250 and Platinum HD.


----------



## phrelin

For everyone's information, I started a thread The ViP DVR audio dropout problem and the converted ViP211's. I started it not to have ViP622/722 users report their audio problems but to ask for reports from the ViP211 users. At some point either they will not have the problem or they will. If they do have the problem, I'm sure the moderators will determine how best to organize a thread.


----------



## 356B

I just got a message from the tech dish people, they completely ignored the position that this problem is at their end. I was given a list of things to try, 9 in all everything from rebooting to plugging the DVR into another TV and alternative AC outlet. :ewww: 
I've been e-mailing regularly, once every 10 days or so. Because of this communication I have the distinct impression they want me to go away, and or busy myself with their questionable suggestions, what a crock. I now wonder if they have any intention of rectifying this uglier by the day situation.:nono2: 
356b
Vip622

1. Press the Menu button on your remote control.

• Select System Setup

• Select Installation

• Select System Information

2. Verify the software is current. Your current software version should be L6.14. 

3. Reset the receiver by holding the power button on the front of the receiver for 10 seconds. The receiver will reset and acquire satellite signal. Once this is complete verify the distortion has cleared. 

If distortion has not cleared, please continue:

4. Verify the connections between the receiver and the TV, are tight.

5. Change the channel on the TV, not the receiver, to channel 10, then back to 3, 4, or the input it was set on if using RCA cables. 

• If this is a TV2 location then change the TV up or down 2 channels, then back to 21, 60, 73, or the channel the TV is normally set to receive satellite programming. 

The following steps require moving cables. If you are not comfortable moving cables please call our customer service number at 1-800-333-3474 for further assistance. 

6. Connect the TV directly to the receiver bypassing all splitters and other devices connected. 

7. Connect a new cable between the TV and receiver. 

8. Connect the receiver to a different TV, if available. 

9. Plug the receiver into an outlet in another room. This may require the use of an extension cord.


----------



## phrelin

Tech Support responses are inconsistent on this issue. Most now know which canned response to give. But some apparently either don't recognize the problem from the description or aren't aware of the problem. Dish Quality seems to have the canned response down.

Regarding the fix, because in the Tech Forum an Echostar Engineering big wheel indicated an update to the ViP622/722 software was expected November 20, I had more than just a rumor to lean on. So I created a thread entitled The ViP DVR audio dropout problem and the converted ViP211's in which I could express my "disappointment" that the ViP622/722/612 units have this problem but this week the focus is on releasing a more complicated USB EHD DVR system which they can then assign engineering staff to debug. Apparently, there weren't enough problems to keep them all busy.

Yeah, I'm irked. Since L5.12, on my ViP722 they've managed to screw up the audio which we talk about here and the video has become "jumpy" (I don't know how else to describe it and I don't know which release started it, but it was occurring on the 722 I sent them as well as the one they sent me). So why not release some other more complicated software DVR design rather than focus on making the existing buggy "Award Winning" DVR's work bug free. Tech Support and Dish Quality are bored, I guess. Not enough complaints.

Sorry, I shouldn't rant here.


----------



## teachsac

phrelin said:


> Regarding the fix, because in the Tech Forum an Echostar Engineering big wheel indicated an update to the ViP622/722 software was expected November 20, I had more than just a rumor to lean on. So I created a thread entitled The ViP DVR audio dropout problem and the converted ViP211's in which I could express my "disappointment" that the ViP622/722/612 units have this problem but this week the focus is on releasing a more complicated USB EHD DVR system which they can then assign engineering staff to debug. Apparently, there weren't enough problems to keep them all busy.


Engineering is divided into teams. 622 engineers don't necessarily work on 211's. Doesn't mean they don't work together though 

S~


----------



## olguy

phrelin said:


> Tech Support responses are inconsistent on this issue. Most now know which canned response to give. But some apparently either don't recognize the problem from the description or aren't aware of the problem. Dish Quality seems to have the canned response down.


As I posted earlier, the one time I called about the audio problem I lucked out. I got an an-shore call center and the fellow knew exactly what I was talking about. He took my receiver information and turned in an engineering report. He told me it was being addressed, he didn't know when but adding my info to the pile couldn't hurt.


----------



## Bill_K

I have grown very impatient with the audio dropout issue on my Vip622 and sent the following note to tech support ([email protected]):

I understand that 'we' are low on the totem pole in the corporate hierarchy, but somehow the message needs to be escalated to the powers that be. The ongoing sound drop-out issue on my Vip622 is not improving. In fact, the recording of ABC's Dirty Sexy Money was so bad last night that I had to resort to using the closed caption display option to keep up with the program. I am extremely disappointed in the lack of progress being made on this issue.

Given the recent Dishnetwork financial news, you'd think that Dish would get its shop in order. My patience is running out. After more than 11 years as dish subscriber&#8230;I am very close to joining the Dishnetwork shrinking subscriber statistic. Question for thought - How does Dish expect to expand its subscriber base when the audio continually drops out while entertaining friends and family? Should I recommend Dishnetwork to colleagues at work? I am interested in an answer to this question. Perhaps, someone in your management chain would provide both of us with an answer.

I still think that Dish has the best hardware, but your execution and customer service is terrible. Practically speaking, I am paying a lot of money to watch TV and I expect to get what I paid for. If this is what I paid for, let me know now - I'll make the move today.

I received the following response:

"Thank you for your email. We apologize again for any inconvenience this issue has caused and understand your frustration with this issue. Unfortunately we are unable to make outbound phone calls via email support. We are also unable to forward this email to the engineering department or someone higher, if you wish to speak to a manager please call our 24 hour customer service center at 1-800-333-3474, we apologize again for any inconvenience this issue has caused."

If I decode this response correctly, tech support does not exchange information with the engineering department, and they have no management to assist them in escalating problems/solutions&#8230;they are like sponges. It's no wonder subscription rates are declining.


----------



## rubear

danicus007 said:


> I'm also in NC and still have the problem on FOX and ABC. NBC and CBS are fine though.


In Seattle I also have audio drop out on Fox & ABC on the 622. Tech support says wait for new software. My 722 does not have the problem. Then I saw a message on my receiver that says that you are eligible for a free 722 upgrade. So I call it ant they say I'm not.


----------



## Rob Glasser

rubear said:


> In Seattle I also have audio drop out on Fox & ABC on the 622. Tech support says wait for new software. My 722 does not have the problem. Then I saw a message on my receiver that says that you are eligible for a free 722 upgrade. So I call it ant they say I'm not.


FWIW I have a 722 and see the dropouts on all those stations so I don't think the 722 is going to fix your problem.

Do you by chance have the 622 going through an AVR and the 722 using RCA or HDMI audio straight to a TV? When I have the audio go through the AVR the dropouts are very noticable, and my AVR loses it's Dolby Digital signal briefly. When I go directly to the TV the audio dropouts are much quicker, and sometimes not really even noticable.

Hopefully we'll see this new version of software soon.


----------



## placeman

Rob Glasser said:


> Do you by chance have the 622 going through an AVR and the 722 using RCA or HDMI audio straight to a TV? When I have the audio go through the AVR the dropouts are very noticable, and my AVR loses it's Dolby Digital signal briefly. When I go directly to the TV the audio dropouts are much quicker, and sometimes not really even noticable.


I have a 622 and have the optical audio output feeding my AVR and the RCA's feeding my TV's audio. I leave my TV's audio level at 0 until I want to catch up on my Family Guy. Then I mute my AVR and turn up the audio on my TV. Glasser is right, the audio drop outs are not near as noticeable when they are not fed to your AVR's dolby digital processor.


----------



## Rob Glasser

placeman said:


> ... I leave my TV's audio level at 0 until I want to catch up on my Family Guy. Then I mute my AVR and turn up the audio on my TV. ...


Exactly what I do for the Sunday animation shows on FOX, they are the worst as far as dropouts are concerned. Completely unwatchable when going through an AVR. I've actually started watching them on hulu.com in some cases.


----------



## plasmacat

placeman said:


> I have a 622 and have the optical audio output feeding my AVR and the RCA's feeding my TV's audio. I leave my TV's audio level at 0 until I want to catch up on my Family Guy. Then I mute my AVR and turn up the audio on my TV. Glasser is right, the audio drop outs are not near as noticeable when they are not fed to your AVR's dolby digital processor.


I have a 622 with optical feeding my AVR and HDMI feeding my TV's speakers. I get audio dropouts on both about equally (FOX & ABC).


----------



## Scott Spillers

rubear said:


> In Seattle I also have audio drop out on Fox & ABC on the 622. Tech support says wait for new software. My 722 does not have the problem. Then I saw a message on my receiver that says that you are eligible for a free 722 upgrade. So I call it ant they say I'm not.


Where did you see the message about a free 722 upgrade?


----------



## phrelin

Bill_K said:


> I received the following response:
> 
> "Thank you for your email. We apologize again for any inconvenience this issue has caused and understand your frustration with this issue. Unfortunately we are unable to make outbound phone calls via email support. We are also unable to forward this email to the engineering department or someone higher, if you wish to speak to a manager please call our 24 hour customer service center at 1-800-333-3474, we apologize again for any inconvenience this issue has caused."
> 
> If I decode this response correctly, tech support does not exchange information with the engineering department, and they have no management to assist them in escalating problems/solutions&#8230;they are like sponges. It's no wonder subscription rates are declining.


Don't fret too much about the engineering department seeing your message. I've been advised by the Echostar Engineering Supervisor in charge of this issue that they monitor this thread. Not that it helps much, since the issue has yet to be fixed.....

But yes, Tech Support does have its limits.


----------



## jb240z

Well, I guess I should add my experience to the thread. I have a 612 connected via optical audio to my AVR, and a 722 connected via HDMI to the TV. The 612 has become almost unwatchable on Fox, both live and recorded, with my AVR Dolby constantly dropping off. The 722 is not as bad, but it also has the audio problem.
And most recently, within the last 2-3 days, the 612 video will freeze for 10-15 seconds and the audio will continue, but with dropouts. This is in the Sacramento DMA. 

Frustrating, to say the least. And the wife is NOT happy!


----------



## RedRedSuit

I should post my info, as well. I have a 722 and am in the San Francisco Bay Area (San Mateo, CA, to be exact). I get major, major sound dropouts (no video dropouts) on Fox and ABC (HD channels 2 and 7) -- but not, say, on TBS or NBC. The dropouts are really annoying in HD shows like Terminator: Sarah Connor Chronicles, but they're not very frequent -- probably 3-4 times per hour. The dropouts are almost constant in non-HD shows; Family Guy and Simpsons are unwatchable.

There are also very small audio dropouts on other channels. They are very infrequent and don't really bother me.

I've tried different sound outputs and even a different TV (well, it was a Slingbox, but same difference).

I called customer service and they had me swap out my receiver. The problem persisted. I found this thread and called them. Eventually, I got to a manager, who gave me his ID#. He said they know about the problem and gave me a $10 credit. He explicitly said the problem affects everyone in San Francisco (I asked him again to double-check).

I asked when the problem would be fixed; he said they have no ETA. I said I'll call back in a month if it's still not fixed; he said there is no way the solution would take that long. (Not saying I believe him, but that's what he said.)

This was about 2 weeks ago.


----------



## rexa

RedRedSuit said:


> I asked when the problem would be fixed; he said they have no ETA. I said I'll call back in a month if it's still not fixed; he said there is no way the solution would take that long. (Not saying I believe him, but that's what he said.)
> 
> This was about 2 weeks ago.


Don't hold your breath yet.

This thread has been complaining about the problem since at least June. Engineering finally got serious about trying to fix it around mid September. (Had a couple units returned with the problem from a couple people who are posting on this thread.) Optimists said we may have a fix by Thanksgiving. I was leaning toward Christmas. We are still waiting for a viable solution.


----------



## big-j1

I HAD ENOUGH! All of this is BS. Not seriously addressing the problem until September!? My audio drops are not just on the HD locals, but almost everywhere. I have two 622's one on my main system (hdmi) and one on the patio (analog) Six months of drop outs is unbelievable! A contract works both ways. If they can not hold up the contract terms it is null and void. I had a tech out to my house, which Dish charged me $29.00, and he had never heard of it and told me it was my non-dbs approved connectors? They sent out a new receiver and of course the same issue is happening. Every time I call the CSR has no idea what I am talking about, nor does the stupervisor. They gave me a $5.00 credit for my inconveniences. I told them to send me out two new 722's to replace my 622's to see if they will work or cancel the service. They asked where can they ship the return boxes to and when I would like the service disconnected? I am done, good bye, so long. Six months of not being able to use the DVR, unacceptable. At least acknowledge the problem and let your employees know what is going on so they do not look stupid. Real On Demand here I come. I can not wait to get back to cable. At least I am trying to convince myself of that.

Fixed by labor day - passed
Fixed by the end of September - Passed
Fixed by Thanksgiving (tomorrow) - I gonna have to say passed
Fixed by Christmas - I'm not waiting to see

WAKE UP PEOPLE!!! JUMP UP AND DOWN ABOUT THIS PROBLEM!!!

Paying for Sat service and watching shows on the net...WHAT?

PS - I have a DP Plus system with the single feed and separators. Are people with two dedicated feeds also having the problem? Just curious


----------



## phrelin

big-j1 said:


> PS - I have a DP Plus system with the single feed and separators. Are people with two dedicated feeds also having the problem? Just curious


I have four cables running directly from the switch, two into my 722 and two into my 612. Still have the problem.

The only hint of a date for the fix given to me by Echostar Engineering was possibly in November as they were testing a possible fix. I don't know how that test went. But since we didn't get the "folders" for the EHD estimated on the tech forum to occur last week, I still have some hope for this month.

But I know the reality for Dish is "soon".


----------



## 356B

rubear said:


> In Seattle I also have audio drop out on Fox & ABC on the 622. Then I saw a message on my receiver that says that you are eligible for a free 722 upgrade. So I call it ant they say I'm not.


What's up with this message...a free upgrade is in my wheelhouse .....but I've tried to log on via the menu with it's dial up, alas though, I get an error code screen and something about not being able to connect at this time ....I've tried before, it never connects, not even for paying my bill:shrug: .....Charlie Chat is coming though, December something, want bet he has good news......ahhhhh right:lol: it doesn't help that dish is losing gobs of money either. 
Happy Turkey Day to all !
356b


----------



## Bob25thTA

Scott Spillers said:


> Where did you see the message about a free 722 upgrade?


I have one on Customer Service section. Says I am eligible for upgrade with Contract ***** Haven't called to see what kind of commitment.


----------



## Dr. Cool

Had about eight dropouts with Iron Man HD PPV. I'm starting to get really annoyed with this problem. Audio was flawless until one of those firmware upgrades screwed up the machine.


----------



## plasmacat

Just got off the phone with Dish tech support. The guy said the dropout problem would be fixed by Dec.5 via software download the night of Dec.4.
Of course he didn't say what year. 
Don't hold your breath


----------



## danicus007

plasmacat said:


> Just got off the phone with Dish tech support. The guy said the dropout problem would be fixed by Dec.5 via software download the night of Dec.4.
> Of course he didn't say what year.
> Don't hold your breath


Awesome, here's hoping it's 2008!! And that it actually works.


----------



## olguy

plasmacat said:


> Just got off the phone with Dish tech support. The guy said the dropout problem would be fixed by Dec.5 via software download the night of Dec.4.
> Of course he didn't say what year.
> Don't hold your breath


It will probably be staged. Means I might get it by Christmas


----------



## phrelin

plasmacat said:


> Just got off the phone with Dish tech support. The guy said the dropout problem would be fixed by Dec.5 via software download the night of Dec.4.
> Of course he didn't say what year.
> Don't hold your breath


Glad to hear that. I really didn't want to harass the Engineering Supervisor at Echostar Engineering, but I would have Monday.


----------



## 356B

phrelin said:


> Glad to hear that. I really didn't want to harass the Engineering Supervisor at Echostar Engineering, but I would have Monday.


That's great news, I hope it happens on schedule, at least it sounds like they got the message......finally.
356B


----------



## jtconte

I too should have posted awhile ago. I'm in NC with a 622 and have been having this issue with recorded events for months. At first I just thought it was weather related when the shows were recorded. Then when it persisted, I checked here and saw that it was a legitimate issue- I wrongly assumed that dish would address it. Now here it is Dec. and I'm paying for audio dropouts that are sometimes so bad I just delete the show!


----------



## sonomajon

phrelin said:


> Glad to hear that. I really didn't want to harass the Engineering Supervisor at Echostar Engineering, but I would have Monday.


I got this e-mail a couple days ago:

I know this is taking awhile and I am sorry. Engineers have stated
today that we hope to get a fix out in the next production release which
will correct some of the audio dropouts. They are hoping to have the
next release out by the end of the year if not sooner. I know this is
frustrating. If I get any other information on this I will email you as
soon as possible.

EchoStar Broadcasting Corporation
Quality Assurance Department
dishquali


----------



## RedRedSuit

sonomajon said:


> I got this e-mail a couple days ago:
> 
> I know this is taking awhile and I am sorry. Engineers have stated
> today that we hope to get a fix out in the next production release which
> will correct some of the audio dropouts. They are hoping to have the
> next release out by the end of the year if not sooner. I know this is
> frustrating. If I get any other information on this I will email you as
> soon as possible.
> 
> EchoStar Broadcasting Corporation
> Quality Assurance Department
> dishquali


SOME of the audio dropouts? End of the year IF NOT sooner?

Way to inspire confidence.

Ugh, indeed.


----------



## KevinM

Wow I'm glad to find this thread after googling "Dish audio stutter". Our 622 and 722 (run through Denon receivers) both stutter terribly, particularly on local FOX (Ten O'clock News), and have been driving my wife and me crazy for months. Seems to happen to us if we pause the broadcast and then restart. Only way to fix it is to fast forward to live TV. Not the reason we have a DVR! 

We're longtime Dish customers but this problem has made a lot of shows almost entirely unwatchable. If the note above about a software fix is true, that is great news. If not, Dish will be losing a big $$ customer! Will keep monitoring this thread - thanks to all for the info and shared experiences. Glad to know we aren't alone.


----------



## phrelin

KevinM said:


> Wow I'm glad to find this thread after googling "Dish audio stutter". Our 622 and 722 (run through Denon receivers) both stutter terribly, particularly on local FOX (Ten O'clock News), and have been driving my wife and me crazy for months. Seems to happen to us if we pause the broadcast and then restart. Only way to fix it is to fast forward to live TV. Not the reason we have a DVR!
> 
> We're longtime Dish customers but this problem has made a lot of shows almost entirely unwatchable. If the note above about a software fix is true, that is great news. If not, Dish will be losing a big $$ customer! Will keep monitoring this thread - thanks to all for the info and shared experiences. Glad to know we aren't alone.


:welcome_s

We all too hope the note about the fix is true. "Hope" is the key word.


----------



## Grandude

It seems a bit mind boggeling that it is taking Dish so long to come up with a fix for this problem. 
As for now, I try to watch FOX and ABC shows live when possible and will defer the ones I have recorded until the 'fix' is out.


----------



## rexa

Grandude said:


> It seems a bit mind boggeling that it is taking Dish so long to come up with a fix for this problem.
> As for now, I try to watch FOX and ABC shows live when possible and will defer the ones I have recorded until the 'fix' is out.


From the symptoms we hope that the old recordings will be ok once we have a fix.
The semi-random quality of the dropouts seems to point to that. Momax will be very upset if his old Voom recordings are still bad. We all hope for redemption of all old, or recent, bad recordings.

May it be so. And soon. Please don't screw up with another half-way fix.

One more insult with a rev of software that doesn't fix our problem and I may join the group removing more dollars from Dish's dwindling bottom line.

Dish can't control it, but the quality of programming content on most of the channels is way down from a few years ago. So I am getting less for my money already -- in my opinion. Now add to this hardware that doesn't work right because of a software "upgrade" and it lasts for months.

Home stretch for a change on one side or the other.


----------



## koralis

stingray327 said:


> I have the exact same problem. I just hooked up my replacement Vip722 DVR with the same problems.
> 
> I too notice it's really bad with recorded shows on Fox and ABC, namely Family Guy, Simpsons, and American Dad. They are watchable live without audio drop outs but then if I pause and play or play it after recorded it is filled with audio drop outs. Very unhappy...
> 
> Glad I'm not the only one having this problem.


Most of my networks are pretty good for my 622, with only a very occasional "blip." However my PBS OTA station (watching animation!) has a bad audio issue pretty regularly. For the PBS problem instead of blipping out, then back within a second, instead audio volume drops WAAAAY down and stays down. We eventually figured out that we could fix things by bumping up the volume control on the Yamaha reciever by about 10 units and suddenly full volume comes back on (at which point we have to undo the 10 units increase.)

You know, after typing that, I wonder if what's happening is that we're getting volume spikes and the reciever is trying to compensate by automatically decreasing the volume to bring the sound to within acceptible levels. When dialing up the volume sufficiently the Yamaha reciever is saying, "huh... guess this decrease I put into place isn't needed after all" and undos it.


----------



## plasmacat

Well - the Dish tech lied - what else is new. I have no new software on my 622 this morning. Unless they updated the software to fix the audio problems w/o giving it a new number.


----------



## Ron Barry

I don't think the Dish Tech lied. It is software and with software comes unpredictability in release scheduled (Or least it should have). I am sure he provided the latest information that he had, but there could be a number of reasons the software did not appear when he indicated including.

1) Last minute defect found during final smoke testing that they felt could not be released to the field. 
2) His information was dated. (Big company and I am sure latest software release dates don't flow like they should through the company).

There are more, but the bottom line is that software release dates in most cases are very fluid and should be. I have worked in companies with drop dead dates and it is not good. What usually ends up happening is something gets found, people dismiss it away because of the date, and it comes back to haunt the team. 

I am not saying any of these things are the case or am I saying this allows people to outright lie about dates (Which I don't think the guy you spoke to did). The above is Just some of the possibilities from my experience that can hold up a release. Bottom line is any date given should be taken with a grain of salt. 

I know everyone is anxious for the fix and hopefully we see one soon. We are going to post two threads when it does so people can post defects/experiences and also report there audio feedback in a separate thread. 

The other point I want to make.. It is possible that of all these reports above we could be talking about one defect, two defects or possible more. So if your experience still occurs after the update.. Be sure to include as much information as possible because given the wide variety of reports it is possible that all the issues described in this thread get squashed with the next release. I am not saying this is the case but it is one possible outcome of next software push and we want to get detailed feedback to E* after it finally arrives in our box.


----------



## phrelin

phrelin said:


> plasmacat said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just got off the phone with Dish tech support. The guy said the dropout problem would be fixed by Dec.5 via software download the night of Dec.4. Of course he didn't say what year.
> 
> Don't hold your breath
> 
> 
> 
> Glad to hear that. I really didn't want to harass the Engineering Supervisor at Echostar Engineering, but I would have Monday.
Click to expand...

Well, I didn't hold my breath but I didn't harass anyone at Echostar until this morning when I sent the following email which may or may not get any answer that indicates the status of the audio dropout fix:


> Hi -
> 
> During the November 10 Tech Forum with Mark Jackson and Dan Minnick, it was reported that an update to the 622/722 series was expected November 20 to allow folders on the external hard drive. Recently, a Tech Rep told a DBSTalk member an update was coming December 4. And, as you indicated below, Engineering was planning for a production release in November that would include the fix for the audio dropout.
> 
> I know this is repetitive, but we HD customers affected by the audio dropout ran out patience awhile back. In my August 25, 2008 email I said: "I think we've all been reasonably patient this Summer, but the new Fall Season is rapidly approaching." The broadcast network Fall Season is almost completed and the audio dropout hasn't been fixed.
> 
> The broadcast network Winter Season will begin in a month. Is a "fix" for the audio dropout problem awaiting release as part of some broader comprehensive code update? Or has the problem remained elusive?
> 
> And while I'm asking, will the fix (should it work for the 622/722 series) then be included in the next update for the 612? As I've indicated, the dropout in my 612 is not as disrupting because it does not cause my A/V receiver to switch the Dolby system off/on, but it is still very annoying.


----------



## treesyjo

FYI-I started having having major audio dropouts on my 622 around the 4th of July... couldn't watch any HD unless it was 100% live, without pausing and forwarding or backing up. I finally emailed the following email to the ceo email address @ Dish:

_I just wanted to add my account as someone who has been plagued with audio issues on my 622 DVR since late June of this year. I understand that you're aware of the problem and you're working on a solution but I wanted to make sure that Dish Network knew that I've also been having issues. I haven't brought it up until now because I've been keeping track of what others have been hearing from Dish on thedbstalk.com forums and realized that getting a replacement receiver would most likely not solve my problem but just make me lose my recordings. But this issue has left me unable to watch any HD programming and it would be nice to know that Dish Network is offering some kind of reimbursement or something since I am paying quite a bit of money for a service that I haven't been able to use in months. Until now, I have had no issues with Dish and I've been a customer for a very long time. And I still love Dish. Again, I just wanted to make you aware of my situation._

I received an email back from Brian in Executive Communications. Basically, he offered to upgrade me to the 722 for free and also waive the external hard drive set up fee so I can move recordings from my 622 to the new 722. I've had the 722 hooked up for 5 days and I haven't had a single drop out. Looks like some people have audio issues with the 722 but so far (knock on wood), I'm not having any issues.

I guess my point is to let people know that Dish does seem to care about the problem and they are offering to help. It might help that I've been a Dish customer for 9 years.


----------



## phrelin

treesyjo said:


> FYI-I started having having major audio dropouts on my 622 around the 4th of July... couldn't watch any HD unless it was 100% live, without pausing and forwarding or backing up. I finally emailed the following email to the ceo email address @ Dish:
> 
> _I just wanted to add my account as someone who has been plagued with audio issues on my 622 DVR since late June of this year. I understand that you're aware of the problem and you're working on a solution but I wanted to make sure that Dish Network knew that I've also been having issues. I haven't brought it up until now because I've been keeping track of what others have been hearing from Dish on thedbstalk.com forums and realized that getting a replacement receiver would most likely not solve my problem but just make me lose my recordings. But this issue has left me unable to watch any HD programming and it would be nice to know that Dish Network is offering some kind of reimbursement or something since I am paying quite a bit of money for a service that I haven't been able to use in months. Until now, I have had no issues with Dish and I've been a customer for a very long time. And I still love Dish. Again, I just wanted to make you aware of my situation._
> 
> I received an email back from Brian in Executive Communications. Basically, he offered to upgrade me to the 722 for free and also waive the external hard drive set up fee so I can move recordings from my 622 to the new 722. I've had the 722 hooked up for 5 days and I haven't had a single drop out. Looks like some people have audio issues with the 722 but so far (knock on wood), I'm not having any issues.
> 
> I guess my point is to let people know that Dish does seem to care about the problem and they are offering to help. It might help that I've been a Dish customer for 9 years.


:welcome_s

Since the box with recordings of dropouts on it I sent Echostar Engineering because they couldn't recreate the problem was a ViP722 and the replacement was a ViP722 that continued to have a problem, you can believe it that plenty of 722's are having the problem.

Most who have reported getting replacement boxes still have the problem. How long ago did you get your 722 and, most importantly, what software version is it using?

Yes, they are aware of the problem and care about it. Some have even gotten a month or two of refunds on their locals. But apparently it's a tough engineering problem since it only happens in some DMA's (Designated Market Area) and not others, and it may not occur on all 622/722/612 boxes though we keep getting more reports from frustrated newcomers.


----------



## phrelin

I received the following response email from Dish Quality (not Echostar Engineering):


> Dear (Me),
> 
> Thank you for your email! It is true that the audio drop-out fix is in the next software revision, however; they are being very cautious to ensure no further anomalies are introduced with the release.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> EchoStar Broadcasting Corporation
> Quality Assurance Department


 So I guess we'll see the fix "soon".


----------



## Ron Barry

phrelin said:


> :welcome_s
> 
> Yes, they are aware of the problem and care about it. Some have even gotten a month or two of refunds on their locals. But apparently it's a tough engineering problem since it only happens in some DMA's (Designated Market Area) and not others, and it may not occur on all 622/722/612 boxes though we keep getting more reports from frustrated newcomers.


I would also like to say welcome...

To add to Pherlin.. Not only is the problem DMA specific it also in certain cases is program and content specific. Definitely a nasty one.. Sure hope we see a fix soon but treesyjo example is a good one in terms that not all experiences here may not be related so even if the fix arrives it is possible that it does not fix all issues people have illustrated here.


----------



## 356B

I just received this message from Dish, I wasn't offer anything......356B

Thank you for your email. We apologize for any inconvenience this issue has caused. At this point the issue that we are aware of is only on HD locals, the standard locals should be working. Since there is no additional charge for HD locals at this time there would not be a credit. If you are having an issue with channels other than the locals then please let me know and we will need to troubleshoot the issue. We do apologize for the trouble with the locals and we are working on the fix, please be sure that you leave the receiver powered off when not in use to accept any software updates.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

Hopefully they implemented and tested a fix before converting ESPNHD over to MPEG4 as well because in the back of my mind I kept thinking once that conversion happened it might accidentally fix my ESPNHD problem. It'll be nice to see the LiL problem fixed too, so hopefully we will see that soon.


----------



## rexa

phrelin said:


> I received the following response email from Dish Quality (not Echostar Engineering): So I guess we'll see the fix "soon".


Soon, soon, soon, creeps at its petty pace from month to month.


----------



## Dr. Cool

Another national HD channel with dropouts: my son was watching Disney's "Cars" yesterday, and I noticed about 15 dropouts during the movie, those of the very typical "brief and random" kind. Extremely annoying.
If Dish cannot fix this problem, there's no question that I'll end up canceling the service. I signed for Dish mainly for three reasons: (1) great DVR (2) Voom and (3) international channels. Two of those reasons are gone. I'm starting to give serious though to Blue-ray + Netflix.


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## jack95

Well tonight on EncoreHD audio drops were so often I decided to add myself as another customer with issues. VIP622 software version L614. Been a problem for a while. After this read, I'll take notice for a relationship of time delayed vs live for audio drops. Glad, unfortunately, it seems to be software related and hopefully correctable...in time.


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## danicus007

Last night I was watching the BCS Selection show on FOX live and it was perfect of course. I rewound about 3 minutes for my wife to hear them interview Urban Meyer and the minute I hit play the audio drop outs were so bad you couldn't understand hardly anything being said.


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## phrelin

Well, last night I recorded TNT's "The Librarian: The Curse of the Judas Chalice" at 5 pm PST on my 722 and the sound went to crap about one-third of the way through it. So I deleted and recorded again on my 722 and 612 again at 8 pm PST. I don't know if the problem was related to the "dropout" issue or something else. It was the "stutter" with dolby dropout and then total loss of sound even during the commercials.


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## kklier

danicus007 said:


> Last night I was watching the BCS Selection show on FOX live and it was perfect of course. I rewound about 3 minutes for my wife to hear them interview Urban Meyer and the minute I hit play the audio drop outs were so bad you couldn't understand hardly anything being said.


Just to prove a DMA point I saw the exact same thing. I live in Durham, NC. I had to rewind the BCS Selection show since I was fixing a bottle for my kid. It was worthless.

A couple of weeks ago I recorded Ugly Betty on both of my 722 DVRs and it only had audio drop outs on the older unit. When I called Dish T.S. I explained the problem and she had me reboot, etc. Anyway she is sending me a new/refurb'ed 722. She did waive the exteral HD fee for me.


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## treesyjo

phrelin said:


> :welcome_s
> 
> Since the box with recordings of dropouts on it I sent Echostar Engineering because they couldn't recreate the problem was a ViP722 and the replacement was a ViP722 that continued to have a problem, you can believe it that plenty of 722's are having the problem.
> 
> Most who have reported getting replacement boxes still have the problem. How long ago did you get your 722 and, most importantly, what software version is it using?
> 
> Yes, they are aware of the problem and care about it. Some have even gotten a month or two of refunds on their locals. But apparently it's a tough engineering problem since it only happens in some DMA's (Designated Market Area) and not others, and it may not occur on all 622/722/612 boxes though we keep getting more reports from frustrated newcomers.


The new 722 was hooked up on December 1st. I am looking in my System Info and I think it says my software version is L614...? If that doesn't sound right, let me know where I can find the software version.


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## olguy

treesyjo said:


> The new 722 was hooked up on December 1st. I am looking in my System Info and I think it says my software version is L614...? If that doesn't sound right, let me know where I can find the software version.


Yes, that is the current software for 622 and 722. Unless they started releasing 6.15 last night


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## plasmacat

phrelin said:


> Well, last night I recorded TNT's "The Librarian: The Curse of the Judas Chalice" at 5 pm PST on my 722 and the sound went to crap about one-third of the way through it. So I deleted and recorded again on my 722 and 612 again at 8 pm PST. I don't know if the problem was related to the "dropout" issue or something else. It was the "stutter" with dolby dropout and then total loss of sound even during the commercials.


I had this too. Keenan on AVS forum had the same problem on Directv so I think it was TNT problem.


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## 356B

Figured I'd take my best shot since the response from Dish has been really lame. 
356B

Phillip R.

Since it has been widely discussed on http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=134343&page=21, that Dish TV is giving unhappy customers a vip722 upgrade and waiving the $40.00 hard drive fee because of the obvious audio drop problems I am distressed that my situation seems to be of little interest to DishTV. After being a loyal and high tier customer for more than a decade perhaps I should consider my options. The $5.00 waived fee for locals/ HD hardly makes up for the months of frustration and the lost ability to use your equipment. I have communicated orally and by text many times articulating the audio situation and have received everything from "press release" rhetoric to dismissive excuses.....unfortunate and disturbing. 
Your "Charlie Chat" last evening did nothing to address this under lying situation which is plaguing the whole country, at least for those of us who expect the equipment to work "as advertised". So if this response is what I should expect from you please direct me to your superiors!


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## treesyjo

356B said:


> Figured I'd take my best shot since the response from Dish has been really lame.
> 356B
> 
> Phillip R.
> 
> Since it has been widely discussed on http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=134343&page=21, that Dish TV is giving unhappy customers a vip722 upgrade and waiving the $40.00 hard drive fee because of the obvious audio drop problems I am distressed that my situation seems to be of little interest to DishTV. After being a loyal and high tier customer for more than a decade perhaps I should consider my options. The $5.00 waived fee for locals/ HD hardly makes up for the months of frustration and the lost ability to use your equipment. I have communicated orally and by text many times articulating the audio situation and have received everything from "press release" rhetoric to dismissive excuses.....unfortunate and disturbing.
> Your "Charlie Chat" last evening did nothing to address this under lying situation which is plaguing the whole country, at least for those of us who expect the equipment to work "as advertised". So if this response is what I should expect from you please direct me to your superiors!


Did you email this to [email protected]? That is who I sent my email to and I received the offer to replace my 622 with the 722. I've been a customer for 9 years so I don't see why they wouldn't offer the same to you.

Good luck!


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## 356B

treesyjo said:


> Did you email this to [email protected]? That is who I sent my email to and I received the offer to replace my 622 with the 722. I've been a customer for 9 years so I don't see why they wouldn't offer the same to you.
> 
> Good luck!


Thank you for the info, I just did and advise everyone else here to do the same.....enough is enough!
356B


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## 356B

*"I received an email back from Brian in Executive Communications. Basically, he offered to upgrade me to the 722 for free and also waive the external hard drive set up fee so I can move recordings from my 622 to the new 722. I've had the 722 hooked up for 5 days and I haven't had a single drop out. Looks like some people have audio issues with the 722 but so far (knock on wood), I'm not having any issues.

I guess my point is to let people know that Dish does seem to care about the problem and they are offering to help. It might help that I've been a Dish customer for 9 years."
*
The beat goes on and Dish is now saying those who received new stuff are lairs. I suspect my chances of any compensation are nill......but their cage will continue to rattle from me.
I received this message this morning.:nono:

_
Thank you for your email. We apologize for any inconvenience this issue has caused. At this point if someone on DBS talk mentioned that they were given a new 722 with a waived EHD fee for this issue, this is not accurate. They may have received the EHD fee waived and additionally may have had a free upgrade but these were likely unrelated. The 722 at this point has the same known issue, so a free upgrade to a 722 would not resolve the issue. The 622 and 722 have the same software sets, which mean that since this issue is software related this upgrade would not be a solution. I do apologize for the inconvenience this issue has caused. I understand this is frustrating, but it is something our engineering department is working diligently to fix.

Your business is greatly appreciated and we thank you for allowing us to be of assistance to you. If you have further questions you can respond to this e-mail or access our online technical support at the following link: http://tech.dishnetwork.com/departmental_content/techportal/index.shtml

A Technical Service Representative is available via live chat 24 hours a day, 7 days per week regarding your concerns. Please click the following link to use this option. http://tech.dishnetwork.com/departm...al/content/tech/techchatadvcustformrf23.shtml

Thank you,

Phillip R. 
_


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## phrelin

356B said:


> The beat goes on and Dish is now saying those who received new stuff are lairs. I suspect my chances of any compensation are nill......but their cage will continue to rattle from me.
> I received this message this morning.:nono:


This doesn't surprise me. Basically the Dish Network Executive Office, Dish Tech Support, Dish Quality and Echostar Engineering are all involved in this issue. Dish Quality appears to be the only consistent point of communications to customers generally. And it appears to be that Tech Support is a bit less consistent in knowledge about the issue getting differing results for different customers. The Executive Office tries to placate disgruntled customers. And Echostar Engineering is actually tasked with the job of fixing the problem as opposed to interacting with Dish Network customers. So there will be confusion.

What's more interesting is a report that a particular 722 isn't creating the dropout problem on recordings. I've wondered why there hasn't been a wholesale exodus from Dish with threats of a class action lawsuit over any attempt to enforce the "commitment" given that basically Dish in a number of major DMA's is not delivering to its 622/722 customers two of the four local HD's in any usable form. In the case of new TurboHD customers, this should be a marketing disaster. Now I'm wondering if all 622's and 722's are dropping out.

I know on my 612 the dropout is more like a click or pop than the full dropout that switches off/on the dolby system on my A/V receiver seriously disrupting the audio flow. If I wasn't in the the middle of this, I might not even be aware of the problem on my 612, although I don't watch the Fox Sunday animated lineup which is reportedly the worst offender.


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## moman19

phrelin said:


> "......What's more interesting is a report that a particular 722 (after being swapped) isn't creating the dropout problem on recordings.....".


That may be due to the fact that the root cause for that particular user's problem was completely unrelated to what the rest of us are experiencing. If his issue, although similar in appearance, was caused by a hardware failure within his DVR, a swap would quickly remedy the matter. Look how many users performed similar DVR swaps (including me) and reported no change.

I don't mean to detract from the fact that this issue is very real, but this may be why resolution is so elusive. While we all seem to be reporting the same issue, it might actually be collection of several different issues manifesting itself in a similar way. One fix may not address all who are affected.


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## treesyjo

356B said:


> The beat goes on and Dish is now saying those who received new stuff are lairs. I suspect my chances of any compensation are nill......but their cage will continue to rattle from me.
> I received this message this morning.:nono:


Well, I don't know what to say because that is exactly what *I *was offered. Here is the email response I received from Dish

_We appreciate your email. Due to the fact that our engineering department doesn't seem to be able to provide us with a time table on the audio issues with our 622, our best option to resolve your concerns may be exchange the unit with our 722. The only down fall would be you would possibly loose your recordings. However, if you contact our tech support team they may be able to walk you through a process to down load your current recordings onto the 722's hard drive. Your status as a customer would allow me to waive all the charges associated with the upgrade. If you're interested in this option please call me to review. If not, we appreciate your patience in waiting for a solution.

Thank you,

Brian D*****

Executive Communications

EchoStar Satellite LLC

dba DISH Network

Phone: 720-xxx-xxxx 
_

I don't know who Phillip R. is but he might want to double check before making statements that something never happened. I realize that the email does not say anything about waiving the EHD set up fee but that was discussed verbally over the phone. In fact, he had to waive it twice because Dish charged me twice. :nono2:


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## Ron Barry

moman19 said:


> I don't mean to detract from the fact that this issue is very real, but this may be why resolution is so elusive. While we all seem to be reporting the same issue, it might actually be collection of several different issues manifesting itself in a similar way. One fix may not address all who are affected.


This is definitely a possibility. There can be a percentage of people reporting whose issue is not related but the symptoms are similar enough to think it is.


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## phrelin

moman19 said:


> That may be due to the fact that the root cause for that particular user's problem was completely unrelated to what the rest of us are experiencing. If his issue, although similar in appearance, was caused by a hardware failure within his DVR, a swap would quickly remedy the matter. Look how many users performed similar DVR swaps (including me) and reported no change.
> 
> I don't mean to detract from the fact that this issue is very real, but this may be why resolution is so elusive. While we all seem to be reporting the same issue, it might actually be collection of several different issues manifesting itself in a similar way. One fix may not address all who are affected.


I agree. You clearly stated the problem that the fix is for in one of your posts (#162 in this thread) as follows:



moman19 said:


> Ron,
> 
> As you can see this thread is getting mixed up with different audio issues, all equally annoying: dropouts, sync loss, complete loss, etc.
> 
> In response to your question, which concerns dropouts, I can report that the dropouts remain in the same spot when replayed. However, I find that the location of the drops can and do vary slightly. This is what helps me decipher words I cannot understand. My dropouts tend to be very short and may mute only a portion of a word or syllable. One time I might hear "The quick brown f__ jumped over the lazy dogs" Then when played back a second time, I might hear The quick brown _ox jumped over the lazy dogs" A third try might sound like "The quick brow_ fox jumped over the lazy dogs". etc. I find that it sometimes shifts.
> 
> Last Sunday, I tried to duplicate the issue by recording Fox News Sunday via OTA and Sat simultaneously. Of course, no drops on either. But remember, shows on my EHD ALWAYS contain dropouts.


I get sound glitches that are unrelated. I don't even bother to checkout sound dropouts when there is an obvious video anomaly.

And the "stuttering" is another problem (it sounds like a automatic gun firing for a second or more). On computers I believe the stutter sound is generally related to the decompression routine losing track of its buffer and having to run through it again to catch up.

I'm hoping that the hoped for fix for our 622/722 "quick brown fox" audio dropout problem will improve the audio/video caching/buffer systems overall and I'm hoping the improved routine will also be included in the next 612 software/firmware update also.

Also I'm hoping for 15 new HD channels.

I "hope" alot here on these threads. Guess that's why Dish/Echostar gave away a trip to the Inaugural on the Charlie Chat, to remind us how much we "happy" Dish HD customers hope for change.


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## yovinman

My 622 receiver has software version L6.15 today. I have NOT done full test on the audio droputs, but I did play about 5 minutes of a recorded ABC show that is notorious for audio dropouts ("Dirty, Sexy, Money" - wife's show, not mine) and there were no dropouts. Ususally the first 5 minutes of this show is unwatchable due to audio droputs. Again, not saying this is proof that the audio dropout dragon is slain, just wondering if anyone else got this release and if it solved any audio dropout problems.


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## phrelin

yovinman said:


> My 622 receiver has software version L6.15 today. I have NOT done full test on the audio droputs, but I did play about 5 minutes of a recorded ABC show that is notorious for audio dropouts ("Dirty, Sexy, Money" - wife's show, not mine) and there were no dropouts. Ususally the first 5 minutes of this show is unwatchable due to audio droputs. Again, not saying this is proof that the audio dropout dragon is slain, just wondering if anyone else got this release and if it solved any audio dropout problems.


That's encouraging!


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## Ron Barry

IF you get L6.15, please report your audio experiences using this thread.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=146693


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## emandbri

My husband called about the audio dropout and dish says it will be fixed in 24 hours. We hadn't called before now because from reading this thread I didn't think calling would help. I'm not holding my breath but we'll see. I'll keep you updated.


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## CopyChief

emandbri said:


> My husband called about the audio dropout and dish says it will be fixed in 24 hours. We hadn't called before now because from reading this thread I didn't think calling would help. I'm not holding my breath but we'll see. I'll keep you updated.


Really? Interesting. I haven't called Dish about this problem, either -- if this latest promise isn't fulfilled perhaps I shall. Thanks for the update. Wonder if it'll come as a software update tonight, or if it's a different kind of problem?


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## 24dB/octave

This thread has been very quiet...any updates on download fixes?


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## phrelin

24dB/octave said:


> This thread has been very quiet...any updates on download fixes?


That's 'cause we're all moaning and groaning here: ViP622/ViP722 - L6.15 Audio Related Issues Discussions.


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## NTIMID8

phrelin said:


> That's 'cause we're all moaning and groaning here: ViP622/ViP722 - L6.15 Audio Related Issues Discussions.


Some of us can only hope to grumble about 6.15. Still waiting here in Motown, I was hoping for Christmas, now maybe the new year.


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## mulder5000

NTIMID8 said:


> Some of us can only hope to grumble about 6.15. Still waiting here in Motown, I was hoping for Christmas, now maybe the new year.


If I had to guess, 6.15 didn't work as well in the wild as they had hoped, so they stopped rollout and won't be sending anyone a new version until 6.16.


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## NTIMID8

mulder5000 said:


> If I had to guess, 6.15 didn't work as well in the wild as they had hoped, so they stopped rollout and won't be sending anyone a new version until 6.16.


Just finished with Tech support, Its being sent to a limited hardware range based on serial #.


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## dishcustomer722

*Please Dish Network, I do NOT want to have to wait 2 months for a Version 6.16 to finally be rolled out because of the bugs in 6.15! *

I don't even have 6.15 yet to see if it MIGHT work to fix these "audio dropouts" with ABC and Fox ... especially ABC (WTVD). I live in the Raleigh/Wake Forest, NC area.

Dish Network engineers ought to be working on this "audio dropout" issue on *all*their shifts ... 24/7 if possible. These "audio dropouts" are getting *VERY* irritating to us Dish Network customers. A lot of us are probably just a few weeks away from getting rid of Dish and switching to DirecTV or back to cable. It just isn't worth the aggravation.


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## emandbri

emandbri said:


> My husband called about the audio dropout and dish says it will be fixed in 24 hours. We hadn't called before now because from reading this thread I didn't think calling would help. I'm not holding my breath but we'll see. I'll keep you updated.


I just realized I never updated that we are still having the sound problem.


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## truthseeker

Now I realize what everyone is saying about the audio.
I am watching KRON and can only hear 'every other' word. I've been having similar problems (though not as terrible) for a while now and assumed it was a 'need to reboot' problem. I have to agree, I too got Dish for VOOM channels, but now this? Look at how concerned they were with restoring VOOM. I'll call them today to find out how much time I have left on my commitment.


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## 24dB/octave

Anyone get 6.16 yet?


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## Ron Barry

Check this thread.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=149309
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=149253


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## Grandude

24dB/octave said:


> Anyone get 6.16 yet?


I got a couple days ago. All three receivers. I'm surprised you didn't get it yet as I am in Santa Rosa too.
So far I have had good luck with 616. No audio problems to report so far. I think mine are fixed now.


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## PuxicoRG

I finally hit the breaking point today and called. (I emailed Dish October 1st.) The customer service rep walked me through some steps, determined that my 722 is defective, so they're sending me a new one. I got to pay $40 to unlock my USB port so I could move shows over. (How considerate of them to let me pay for their problem.) 

What are the odds this is going to work for me? 1 in 100?

Unreal.


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## Henry

PuxicoRG said:


> I finally hit the breaking point today and called. (I emailed Dish October 1st.) The customer service rep walked me through some steps, determined that my 722 is defective, so they're sending me a new one. I got to pay $40 to unlock my USB port so I could move shows over. (How considerate of them to let me pay for their problem.)
> 
> What are the odds this is going to work for me? 1 in 100?
> 
> Unreal.


Did you pay the $40 activation fee on your old 722? If not, that's why.


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## PuxicoRG

Well of course I didn't - but why in the hell should I pay to get my programs off of a machine that is "faulty" according to them, when the odds are it isn't going to fix the problem? When I've been paying $5 a month for local programs that I can only watch in SD or with intolerable audio for months? You'd think the company could afford to float me the service (which, of course, would literally cost them nothing) to appease a customer who's already extremely pissed off.

With customer "service" like that, I predict DirecTV in my future in 4.5 months (when my contract runs out.) This is beyond unacceptable.


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## Henry

PuxicoRG said:


> Well of course I didn't - but why in the hell should I pay to get my programs off of a machine that is "faulty" according to them, when the odds are it isn't going to fix the problem? When I've been paying $5 a month for local programs that I can only watch in SD or with intolerable audio for months? You'd think the company could afford to float me the service (which, of course, would literally cost them nothing) to appease a customer who's already extremely pissed off.
> 
> With customer "service" like that, I predict DirecTV in my future in 4.5 months (when my contract runs out.) This is beyond unacceptable.


I didn't say it was right.


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## PuxicoRG

Yeah - sorry if I snapped a little.

I also replied to my October response from quality and copied the "ceo" email from this thread. I don't really care about paying $40 for access to the USB port. In fact, it will be nice to save Season 5 of Lost. But it's the principle of the matter...


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## moman19

Hey, PuxicoRG --- Please let us know how it goes with the replacement. This issue is proving to be most difficult for them to resolve and appears (from my perspective) to affect only certain markets and certain devices. I too, live in the St. Louis DMA and am having a horrible time with dropouts on my 722 while my older 622 seems to be trouble-free. I fear the replacement will not perform any better. Let's hope I'm wrong.


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## Henry

PuxicoRG said:


> Yeah - sorry if I snapped a little.
> 
> I also replied to my October response from quality and copied the "ceo" email from this thread. I don't really care about paying $40 for access to the USB port. In fact, it will be nice to save Season 5 of Lost. But it's the principle of the matter...


No problem ... bad days come and go.


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## PuxicoRG

moman19 said:


> Hey, PuxicoRG --- Please let us know how it goes with the replacement. This issue is proving to be most difficult for them to resolve and appears (from my perspective) to affect only certain markets and certain devices. I too, live in the St. Louis DMA and am having a horrible time with dropouts on my 722 while my older 622 seems to be trouble-free. I fear the replacement will not perform any better. Let's hope I'm wrong.


I received my replacement DVR two weeks ago tomorrow (1-14-2009). Since I only had a 50 GB hard drive on hand, and was busy, it took me through Sunday of last weekend (1-25-2009) to move the programs over and set up the new unit.

End result? No change. The audio still drops out as horribly as ever on CBS. I haven't had time to check out the other networks as of yet. Either way, I'm glad they allowed me to go through the hassle of switching out boxes and the pleasure of paying $30 to open up my USB for no reason...

By the way - the software version on both my old and "new" (refurbished) units is 616.


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## PuxicoRG

I must say, at least the customer service rep. this time was much nicer (and honest.)

1. She credited me $30 for the usb port.
2. Told me that their instructions were to NOT send out replacement units for this problem, because that won't work. (Thanks previous rep.)
3. Asked me to try a different cable other than HDMI, even though she admited that is not a good fix, even if it were to work.

Does using a different audio delivery cable help?


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## Rob Glasser

PuxicoRG said:


> Does using a different audio delivery cable help?


Probably not, unless your issues are happening ALL THE TIME. If it's only specific stations and/or specific shows it's most likely a software issue and no amount of receiver or cable swaps is going to fix it.


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## moman19

PuxicoRG said:


> I received my replacement DVR two weeks ago tomorrow (1-14-2009). Since I only had a 50 GB hard drive on hand, and was busy, it took me through Sunday of last weekend (1-25-2009) to move the programs over and set up the new unit.
> 
> End result? No change. The audio still drops out as horribly as ever on CBS. I haven't had time to check out the other networks as of yet. Either way, I'm glad they allowed me to go through the hassle of switching out boxes and the pleasure of paying $30 to open up my USB for no reason...
> 
> By the way - the software version on both my old and "new" (refurbished) units is 616.


Sadly, I had a feeling this was going to be the end result. It also proves that the issue is related to certain channels and/or firmware rather than a piece of defective hardware. I just wonder when the final fix will pop out. This has been going on way too long.

Version 6.16 is the current level of software in the wild. It attempted to resolve the dropout issue originally reported by others (in St. Louis, anyway) on the ABC and Fox HD locals. It cured the issue on those two channels but only at the cost of moving it to the NBC and CBS HD locals.


----------

