# B-Band Converters (BBC's) Clarrifications * Please Read



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

We have all seen the posts where people have gotten better "results", if they remove the B-Band Converters (BBCs for short).

These are the little grey boxes, that look like "Nintendo" connector boxes.
SAT lines goes into one side, the other side connects to the HR20/H20

Two of them should have been shipped with each of your HR20s. (One with your H20)

---------------------

I have asked my contacts, and have gotten some clarrifications about the BBCs..


In order to receive the future HD programming, BOTH BBC's will need to be installed on the HR20 (or one on an H20)
They *CANNOT* be installed near the switch in most installations. They need to basically be connected to the receiver, or within a very short distance.
If you upgrade/convert to FTM, the BBC's are no longer necessary (FTM is expected to be available before the HD channels are available)
The BBC's in no way should be negatively impacting your usage today

If you have confirmed that the BBC's are affecting your HR20 or H20, and you have no desire to convert to FTM... then you should contact DirecTV and have them replaced (either shipped to you or installed).

So... I highly recommend those of you that have disconnected your BBC's... re-connect them and see if you are having the same issues as you had before. If you don't have them... well... you may want to consider FTM (Which the information on that should be comming in the next couple weeks... I know I know... but it is "this close" )

Earl


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## jkc120 (Sep 11, 2006)

Stupid newbie question here, Earl. What is FTM and what benefits does it offer? Other than not needing the potentially error-prone BBCs?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

jkc120 said:


> Stupid newbie question here, Earl. What is FTM and what benefits does it offer? Other than not needing the potentially error-prone BBCs?


At the highest level, FTM is a new technology to get the signal from your dish to your receiver. Do a search on FTM and find a lot of the discussion on it.


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## jkc120 (Sep 11, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> At the highest level, FTM is a new technology to get the signal from your dish to your receiver. Do a search on FTM and find a lot of the discussion on it.


Thanks Earl. I'll read up on it. I assume it offers some kind of advantage to what we are using now? Will it allow for better quality HD or something? Or is it just the "next thing"? If this is a FAQ/etc, sorry, and I'll go search


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## CraigM (Jan 20, 2007)

Can FTM with just some of the DVR's and regular receiver's? Or would the whole house have to be rewired for FTM?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

CraigM said:


> Can FTM with just some of the DVR's and regular receiver's? Or would the whole house have to be rewired for FTM?


I don't want to dive too much into FTM right now (at least in this thread).
Please hang tight for a few more weeks... Search is your friend to get some of that information now.


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## machavez00 (Nov 2, 2006)

you will have type out frequency translation module, FTM will get you female to male!


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## jorossian (Jan 21, 2007)

Thanks Earl

I just called Level 2 tech. They gave me the same initial runaround saying the ONE BBC they gave is all my reciever needs. I strongly disagreed and after a bit of mild arguing I finally convinced them to send a guy out to install another one the day after the Superbowl.


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## tech7021 (Jan 28, 2007)

jorossian said:


> Thanks Earl
> 
> I just called Level 2 tech. They gave me the same initial runaround saying the ONE BBC they gave is all my reciever needs. I strongly disagreed and after a bit of mild arguing I finally convinced them to send a guy out to install another one the day after the Superbowl.


Where are you located? I might be able to get someone out to you sooner.


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## jorossian (Jan 21, 2007)

Tech 7021

I live in Hilton, NY - About 16 miles west of Rochester close to Lake Ontario. About 50 miles east of Buffalo.

They did offer to send someone this week, but I don't get home from work until 5 and that was the latest they would do. I took Monday off for the SB hangover so they offered to come Monday morning.

All I really needed was for them to drop them off in the storm door (or mail them) as I could easily screw them on myself behind the receiver, but they wouldn't go for that. 

I appreciate the offer, regardless. Drop me a PM if you think you can expedite things knowing the above.

Thanks
Joe


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## Drewg5 (Dec 15, 2006)

machavez00 said:


> you will have type out frequency translation module, FTM will get you female to male!


Gotta love it.. The Internut is full of all walks of life, but I got a good laugh out of it


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## Cobra (Aug 9, 2006)

I finally got through to someone, they cant send me 2 new filters, they have to have a tech come out and do it


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## wmschultz (Jul 18, 2006)

That is BS. They can send them.

Are you going to have to pay a tech visit fee?


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## jorossian (Jan 21, 2007)

I'd better not considering I should have had 2 from day one!


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## Cobra (Aug 9, 2006)

no, they said I was under warranty yet


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## tech7021 (Jan 28, 2007)

jorossian said:


> Tech 7021
> 
> I live in Hilton, NY - About 16 miles west of Rochester close to Lake Ontario. About 50 miles east of Buffalo.
> 
> ...


Not likely you will ever get someone to your house after 5. We work 8-5 and don't get overtime, we get paid per job. Also something seems shady about them not mailing them to you. I hope it works out for you. Keep me posted.


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## jorossian (Jan 21, 2007)

tech7021 said:


> Not likely you will ever get someone to your house after 5. We work 8-5 and don't get overtime, we get paid per job. Also something seems shady about them not mailing them to you. I hope it works out for you. Keep me posted.


Regardless - thanks for even the THOUGHT of extending your professional connection to the area to help a fellow DBSTalk forumite out. It's nice to know there's a place where customers and DTV employees and contractors can discuss issues in an informal forum.

Even though anyone could easily install their own B-band converters I'm actually glad a tech's coming to the house. It's an opportunity to ask some questions and make sure some of my problems are not related to a less than optimally aimed dish. I installed all my systems in the mid '90s and the 3 sat days of the early '00s, but I seriously doubt I could peak this new dish and I'm certainly not ready to purchase one of those new and expensive sat-signal peak finders.


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## Cobra (Aug 9, 2006)

The techs come tomorrow to do that tough task of putting the new filters on. I will be at work, but my wife will be home, so I hope they dont try and something stupid


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## toy4two (Aug 18, 2006)

reminds me of my local cable company before I dumped them. They told me I had to pay $50 for a Time Warner tech to come out and install my cable modem filters. If you have ever seen one of these they are about as complicated to install as a lightbulb. I of course blew my roof that a tech needed to be paid $50 to do this "service". Talk about nickle and diming you.


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## mtnagel (Sep 18, 2006)

tech7021 said:


> Not likely you will ever get someone to your house after 5. We work 8-5 and don't get overtime, we get paid per job. Also something seems shady about them not mailing them to you. I hope it works out for you. Keep me posted.


I guess you missed my thread where the guy came at 9 pm (for a 1-5 time slot mind you) and stayed till almost 2 am.


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## PlanetBill (May 8, 2006)

mtnagel said:


> I guess you missed my thread where the guy came at 9 pm (for a 1-5 time slot mind you) and stayed till almost 2 am.


I've had that happen to me twice. Bluegrass must start the day in Ky and work there way north. The guy install my HD dish in the dark around midnight. Not typical West Chester working hours.


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## talbain (Sep 6, 2006)

why would you need two of these bbc's? if it gets installed right at the receiver, where would you put a second one?


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## devellis (Oct 18, 2006)

Two input lines for two internal receivers on HR20.


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## Ed Campbell (Feb 17, 2006)

machavez00 said:


> you will have type out frequency translation module, FTM will get you female to male!


Tee hee.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

tech7021 said:


> Not likely you will ever get someone to your house after 5. We work 8-5 and don't get overtime, we get paid per job. Also something seems shady about them not mailing them to you. I hope it works out for you. Keep me posted.


LOL. Heck, my installer was supposed to be there between 10-12noon and didn't show up until 4:30. He was there past 6 and had one more stop after me. Just depends I guess.


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## Cobra (Aug 9, 2006)

not sure what the tech all did today, I was at work, and when I got home the wife was gone to work also. It appears by the snow next to the house, he was up on the roof by the dish, and the 2 filters are back on the box, and everything seems to be working for now, hope it stays that way


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## Rambler (Nov 9, 2006)

tech7021 said:


> Where are you located? I might be able to get someone out to you sooner.


Well, hello to a fellow Tonawandian! Now residing out on the left coast.


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## Cobra (Aug 9, 2006)

well I went outside with the dog, and noticed they moved the dish to a different location, now watching tv, espn,and the channels keep dropping in and out, 771, then they come back, just the hd channels. looks like I will have to remove the converters again, and call, dtv for the millionth time:nono2:


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## drm0414 (Apr 28, 2006)

Does FTM offer advantages to dual feeds to a HR-20?


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## bobnielsen (Jun 29, 2006)

drm0414 said:


> Does FTM offer advantages to dual feeds to a HR-20?


Yes, only one cable would be required from the dish.


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## geor_55 (Dec 18, 2006)

When my unit was first installed I would have one of the tuners drop signal. Tech response was to switch cables and see what happened. After continuing to have these issues over days it appeared to me that the unit was acting like a loose cable connection. Sometimes just moving the cables fixed it. If you look at the BBC you will find that the cable end will swivel. This is done by leaving the connection loose and lock-tighting the nut. I removed the filter from the plastic case, warmed the nut to break loose the lock-tight, cleaned all the threads and reassembled tightening the cable nut tight (no swivel action). This corrected the tuner drop out problem.


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## drm0414 (Apr 28, 2006)

bobnielsen said:


> Yes, only one cable would be required from the dish.


Whereas I live in Denver, (this means that OTA is 2 years, at best, away) and have dual feeds from my dish already installed, I'll conclude that FTM offers me little. Am I correct.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

drm0414 said:


> Whereas I live in Denver, (this means that OTA is 2 years, at best, away) and have dual feeds from my dish already installed, I'll conclude that FTM offers me little. Am I correct.


FTM is focused for complexes pre-wired with only one feed. If you have two cables there is no advantage that I can see.


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## drm0414 (Apr 28, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> FTM is focused for complexes pre-wired with only one feed. If you have two cables there is no advantage that I can see.


Thanks.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

veryoldschool said:


> FTM is focused for complexes pre-wired with only one feed. If you have two cables there is no advantage that I can see.


FTM is the consumer version of MDU. MDU was the large complex pre-wired product, FTM is for normal houses, pre-wired, uses rg-59 as well as RG-6, and allows splitters in the wiring. According to Earl, there are/will be a couple models depending on the exact circumstances, but I don't know what those might be.

And, if your house is already wired, you wouldn't need FTM. (Until the 4 tuner HMC is released...)

Cheers,
Tom


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

tibber said:


> FTM is the consumer version of MDU. MDU was the large complex pre-wired product, FTM is for normal houses, pre-wired, uses rg-59 as well as RG-6, and allows splitters in the wiring. According to Earl, there are/will be a couple models depending on the exact circumstances, but I don't know what those might be.
> And, if your house is already wired, you wouldn't need FTM. (Until the 4 tuner HMC is released...)
> Cheers,
> Tom


Thanks and now I could ask about what is a MDU, but don't bother... as it must have something to do with being a multiple distribution unit or something...
I'll just modify future posting about FTM.


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## O2BRich (Nov 8, 2006)

drm0414 said:


> Whereas I live in Denver, (this means that OTA is 2 years, at best, away) and have dual feeds from my dish already installed, I'll conclude that FTM offers me little. Am I correct.


drm0414

OTA is alive and well in Denver. With my H20 I got 2,4,7,9,20,31 in HD OTA. I have not hooked my HR20 up yet as I will be installing a better antenna this weekend.


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## Newshawk (Sep 3, 2004)

veryoldschool said:


> Thanks and now I could ask about what is a MDU, but don't bother...


MDU=Multiple Dwelling Unit, A.K.A. Apartment building/Condo

No bother.


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## lguvenoz (Aug 23, 2006)

Interesting anomaly that I have noticed recently. I've been running sans BBCs for quite a while and had much better reliability. My HR20 has recently developed a serious problem with lockups (once a day for a stretch of 5 days with 3 different FW revs including 120). I reinstalled the BBCs two days ago and my machine has been much happier. Very strange.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Folks have been running with and without the BBC's for some time.

Both setups have users reporting things running fine, and both have reported issues from time to time.

Earl has indicated a number of times that its better to leave the BBCs in place (as of now).


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Newshawk said:


> MDU=Multiple Dwelling Unit, No bother.


Well, I got two out of three [missed the "D"]


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## Shake Well (Apr 12, 2006)

Thanks again Earl for the update. I had one BBC on, one off... seemed to work the with the most reliability (no idea.... ) so I installed the other one today since the x120 seems to be pretty stable as well.


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## drm0414 (Apr 28, 2006)

O2BRich said:


> drm0414
> 
> OTA is alive and well in Denver. With my H20 I got 2,4,7,9,20,31 in HD OTA. I have not hooked my HR20 up yet as I will be installing a better antenna this weekend.


Thanks. I live on the southwest side of Green Mountain, near Morrison. According to AnntennaWeb, I would need a (Blue) directional antenna pointed toward 49 degrees, in order to receive the signals from 4(CBS), 7(ABC) and 9(NBC), originating from buildings in downtown. 31(FOX), transmitted from Lookout Mtn is located at 304 degrees from my location. Until the new towers are erected on Lookout Mtn, OTA is not feasible for my location.

Earl, I apologize for the diversion to this thread, but for those interested, here is an update of where Denver HDTV is. http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_5312731,00.html Bear in mind that this fight has been going on since 1997. The nice folks in Golden took a "not in my backyard" stance and have stonewalled this since then.

Ok, I feel much better now...


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## jorossian (Jan 21, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Folks have been running with and without the BBC's for some time.
> 
> Both setups have users reporting things running fine, and both have reported issues from time to time.
> 
> Earl has indicated a number of times that its better to leave the BBCs in place (as of now).


hdtvfan0001

does your setup include a multi-switch or do you feed your HR20 directly from the dish?

Thanks


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## DishDog (Nov 10, 2006)

When watching NBC Local HD-SAT recording today, pixilation and audio drops noticed. Switched to live TV and same problem.

Checked all other locals and same problem. Removed BBC's and problem cleared up. Reinstalled converters and problem reappeared.

Removed again and problem cleared up. (It does not appear that these converters have swivel connectors.)


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## deebeeeff (Oct 10, 2006)

machavez00 said:


> you will have type out frequency translation module, FTM will get you female to male!


WOW! This place is more useful than I thought!:lol: :lol:


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

jorossian said:


> hdtvfan0001
> 
> does your setup include a multi-switch or do you feed your HR20 directly from the dish?
> 
> Thanks


Multiswitch.


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## gb33 (Sep 8, 2006)

My question, and thing I am confused on is diplexing in the OTA. I had this with my prior (DTivo) setup before getting 5LNB and HR20 back in August. The installer said it "may" cause problems with these, or it may not. So is it okay to diplex in an antenna in the attic or will it affect anything? If there is no use currently for the BBC's I don't see how it can hurt. Or is it the MP4 locals that would get screwed up? I am a bit confused on this.
Bottom line- OTA diplexing okay with current setups? Will it affect local HD channels or any other signal?


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

There has been much discussion on this already.

Sometime this year, the signals from the new satellites (not yet launched) will occupy the same frequencies as over the air signals, and thus they will interfere with each other.

The purpose of the BBC's is to re-convert those frequencies back out of the ota range before they go into the receiver itself. The BBC's need to be installed fairly close to the receiver, they most likely will not work if installed at or near the dish end of the operation.

The WB68 multiswitch (and any other multiswitch that will work with the new satellite signals) will not permit diplexing - there will be no antenna input. Older multiswitches that do have an antenna input won't work with the new signals.

So at the moment, you can diplex with the H20/HR20 by using a diplexer after the multiswitch (if you have one) to insert the antenna signal, and another diplexer at the receiver to extract the antenna signal and it "should" work. However, once the additional HD feeds start to light up, both the antenna and the new HD channels will stop working.

Some people have suggested moving the BBC's up stream and placing them at the output of the WB68, then using diplexers at that point. DirecTV has indicated that the BBC's will not work properly if they are that far from the receiver inputs. No one knows for sure either way, since there are currently no signals that require their use.

So the bottom line is, you can diplex today but not tomorrow.

Carl


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## gb33 (Sep 8, 2006)

carl6 said:


> Sometime this year, the signals from the new satellites (not yet launched) will occupy the same frequencies as over the air signals, and thus they will interfere with each other.
> 
> So at the moment, you can diplex with the H20/HR20 by using a diplexer after the multiswitch (if you have one) to insert the antenna signal, and another diplexer at the receiver to extract the antenna signal and it "should" work. However, once the additional HD feeds start to light up, both the antenna and the new HD channels will stop working.
> 
> ...


 This is what I needed to hear. Thank you. I just did not want to mess up my MP4 locals. Could care less right now of the channels DTV is "dreaming" about. The current HD package is nonsense, and would rather have the stable antenna in attic diplexed in. Thank you.


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## SteveHas (Feb 7, 2007)

jorossian
You avatar is fantastic.
I'm originally from Greece NY now in Boston.
You do my home proud
I am running my HR20 (2nd one since December 23rd '06) with a multiswitch and no BBCs. I have an off the air antenna (indoor) connected directly to the unit. I have noticed local drop outs in last week week. Prior to that the locals and HDs were good.
During the install the tech left me with a new multi-switch, and BBC but didn't install either. I replaced my old multi switch with the new one 2 weeks ago.
Could all of this be connected?


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## jorossian (Jan 21, 2007)

I hold a suspicion at this point that cable quality, connections (including b-band converters), multi-switches and dish alignment are issues that are contributing to the software's ability to do it's job. I'm not completely sure at this point but I THINK I'm getting a more stable HR20 since I removed my multi-switch and hooked my HR20 directly to the dish. I had to disconnect the reciever in my den for this so I'm not sure how much longer it can go on though.

Gotta love the McKenzie Brothers aye?  Being from Upstate NY makes us at least 1/8th-Canadian doesn't it? Also - my sister and my nephews moved to the Boston area a couple years ago and I've been dying to visit them once the weather around the area improves. She lives in Millbury, MA. Gotta love the airfares between Boston and Rochester on AirTran.

Good luck in your HR20 experience. I'm glad LOST recorded last night. I'm not sure the CSR's could have handled my tirade if it hadn't


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## Ken984 (Jan 1, 2006)

My HR20 has one bbc connected, the other was bad out of the box, no signal at all with it connected. I called D* and of course the guy said "you don't need those" and wouldn't ship me a new one. Guess I will have to call back and argue with somebody else about it.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Ken984 said:


> My HR20 has one bbc connected, the other was bad out of the box, no signal at all with it connected. I called D* and of course the guy said "you don't need those" and wouldn't ship me a new one. Guess I will have to call back and argue with somebody else about it.


Good idea...


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## TimGoodwin (Jun 29, 2004)

Earl, any closer to spilling the beans on FTM?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

TimGoodwin said:


> Earl, any closer to spilling the beans on FTM?


Yep... I am closer..


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Yep... I am closer..


What a tease....


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## TimGoodwin (Jun 29, 2004)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Yep... I am closer..


Well that's good... I guess?


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## Nivek (Sep 21, 2006)

PlanetBill said:


> I've had that happen to me twice. Bluegrass must start the day in Ky and work there way north. The guy install my HD dish in the dark around midnight. Not typical West Chester working hours.


I had a guy, when I was back in Syracuse, who stayed on Christmas Eve until almost 8pm for a particularly difficult install. He still didn't get it done at 8 but I told him e better leave or his wife will kill him! He ended coming back the Sunday after Christmas to work for almost 6 hours to finish the install.

/Kevin


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## Donb01 (Feb 8, 2007)

OK, here goes - I read the whole thread first. I'm a Noob, of course to the DVR thing, but have been with D* since '95 and have always installed my own stuff. I have a pretty good understanding of how things work, and I'm getting high 90's and 100's on every transponder on my dish, except 4 that come up 0's, so I can't do too bad in the install department.

I bought my HR20 last weekend at BB and installed it. Saw the BBC's, took one out of the box and read the instructions, which pretty much sucked. I understand how they work, but made the assumption that they are for the 5 LNB dish, since that was the first I have ever seen of them. Since I have a 3 LNB dish (they were getting pretty forceful with me about having a tech come out and install the new dish and I was quite clear with them that there is not a tech on the planet who would go anywhere near that install till the weather warms up. I have my dish installed in a unique location - if you imagine a square donut, and the roof in the center of the donut is 15 feet lower than the rest, you get the idea. I have my dish mounted about 5 feet below the parapet on the north wall of the inside of the donut. It is a wonderful location - it is quite protected from the weather, and there is hardly ever any rain fade or snow fade unless the cloud cover is so bad the signal can't penetrate. It is protected from wind, and I rarely get any snow or ice buildup on the dish. I argued with the original tech, who refused to put it there and told me I was on my own. I tried to explain to the guy that you don't sight down the LNB arm to determine if the signal path is obstructed because in our area the signal comes down at an approximate 60 degree or so angle - more from directly above the dish. That was explained to me by the guy who originally taught me when I worked for an installer for a while 12 years ago. Anyway, the roof pitches in 2 different directions. There is a general slope to the roof to get the water to run, and it also slopes away from the wall of the building. There is a considerable ice buildup now and about 4 feet of snow inside the donut. When I originally installed the dish 10 years ago when I moved in here I needed 2 people to hold onto the ladder so I could push hard enough against the hammer drill to get the anchors installed in the brick - the ladder was already tipped away from the building at about a 10 degree angle, I was standing near the top, and had to push on the drill.... not the most pleasant install, but it worked. I explained all this to the person at D* who was trying to force me to have the new dish installed before they would activate the new receiver, and they finally gave up when I told them I wanted to go with the new dish, just not till the snow melted.

I'm not sure if I can do the install myself - it's not my first rodeo, but I have heard stories both ways - some say you need to have a spectrum analyzer to install it right, and others say it's not necessary and you can still do a very good job using the signal meter. I know that it requires a new 2" mast and will not work with the old one, but it would be really nice if the footprint of the mount pad is the same - then I can use the same bolts, and the install will probably go pretty fast.

Anyway, sorry for the rambling... I assumed I would still get my locals off the 3 LNB dish because I was getting them with my HD receiver before I installed the HR20, and I assume that my area will be one of the last places to get the MPEG4 HD Locals, but... when I was on the phone with the chicky getting my new receiver activated I could not get them - it kept telling me the channels were not available, I have an OTA antenna hooked up too - one of those Radio Shack jobs with the wings, but the wings busted off one day in a nasty windstorm. Since I was getting no locals at all, from either the dish or the antenna I assumed I was scrod until I got the 5 LNB dish (I don't watch them much anyway) - I am getting the East coast HD feeds of NBC and CBS anyway, just FOX and ABC were not authorized, so I figured who cares.

Later on when I sat down and started exploring the menus I found out that the receiver thought there was no OTA antenna installed, and when I remedied that misconception I am now getting them all OTA even with the broken wings, and still getting mid 80's on all the channels except 2 that are in the upper 50's to low 60's but still look decent.

Anyway, all this rambling was basically how I came to the conclusion that maybe the BBC's were only needed for the 5 LNB dish - because everything seems to be working quite well, with no problems at all and excellent signal strength and reception.

Is my not having them installed, and raising those lower frequencies back up where they belong the reason why I am not getting locals off the dish, or am I correct in that they are there only for the 5 LNB dish?


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## bobnielsen (Jun 29, 2006)

Donb01 said:


> Anyway, all this rambling was basically how I came to the conclusion that maybe the BBC's were only needed for the 5 LNB dish - because everything seems to be working quite well, with no problems at all and excellent signal strength and reception.
> 
> Is my not having them installed, and raising those lower frequencies back up where they belong the reason why I am not getting locals off the dish, or am I correct in that they are there only for the 5 LNB dish?


The BBCs are currently not used at all. They will be needed for the Directv 10 and 11 satellites scheduled to be launched later this year. These satellites will be used for all additional national HD channels (the current HD may be moved there eventually, as well) and additional local HD channels. The Ka-band is divided into two segments. The LNB outputs corresponding to these are 250-750 and 1650-2150 MHz. Only the 1650-2150 MHz segment is currently being used. When the new satellites are operational the BBC will convert the 250-750 MHz signals up to 1650-2150 to be processed by the receiver.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Donb01 said:


> ... I assumed I would still get my locals off the 3 LNB dish because I was getting them with my HD receiver before I installed the HR20, and I assume that my area will be one of the last places to get the MPEG4 HD Locals, but...
> Later on when I sat down and started exploring the menus I found out that the receiver thought there was no OTA antenna installed, and when I remedied that misconception I am now getting them all OTA even with the broken wings, and still getting mid 80's on all the channels except 2 that are in the upper 50's to low 60's but still look decent.
> 
> Anyway, all this rambling was basically how I came to the conclusion that maybe the BBC's were only needed for the 5 LNB dish - because everything seems to be working quite well, with no problems at all and excellent signal strength and reception.
> ...


Welcome to the forums! :welcome_s

Some quick throughts:
You should be able to get exactly everything you had previously.
You should be able to get SD locals with 3lnb
You will not be able to get HD locals without the 5lnb
You likely are so close to Scray's Hill that the OTA locals from Green Bay should come in on a light bulb as an antenna (others like paper clips, that should work too.) 
The BBCs are not required for the 3lnb and not yet in use for the 5lnb. But Earl's point is to hook them up now so that people don't lose them and can test them.

As to when you install the 5lnb, a good signal meter is not a must but sure does help. With patience, it can be done using the builtin signal meters. Just takes time.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

tibber said:


> As to when you install the 5lnb, a good signal meter is not a must but sure does help.


Fully agree. But you do not need a spectrum analyzer. A decent signal meter, such as the Accutrac they recommend in the installation videos costs $100 to $150.

Check the installation videos at this link for the procedure for the AT9. The newer dish is the AU9. The only difference is it has an integrated LNB housing instead of two LNB housings you have to attach together. Otherwise the alignment process is the same.

http://www.solidsignal.com/satellite/at9_install_videos.asp

Carl


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## Trampis (Feb 16, 2007)

Hey all, another newbie here. So I assume that these BBCs are the DTV part #SUP-2400 that you all are talking about? I just got my 5lnb dish and HR20 a couple of weeks ago and I just noticed them on my receiver (yeah I know, a little slow...). I am now in the process of hooking up my old HR10-250 to the dish through a Zinwell WB68. Long story short, I'm installing the WB68 outside and running 4 cables downstairs and 2 cables upstairs (for my R10).
My question is do I need these BBCs on the 2 cables going to the HR10? What are they and what do they do exactly?

Thanks and sorry if this is repeating a tired subject...


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Trampis said:


> Hey all, another newbie here. So I assume that these BBCs are the DTV part #SUP-2400 that you all are talking about? I just got my 5lnb dish and HR20 a couple of weeks ago and I just noticed them on my receiver (yeah I know, a little slow...). I am now in the process of hooking up my old HR10-250 to the dish through a Zinwell WB68. Long story short, I'm installing the WB68 outside and running 4 cables downstairs and 2 cables upstairs (for my R10).
> My question is do I need these BBCs on the 2 cables going to the HR10? What are they and what do they do exactly?
> Thanks and sorry if this is repeating a tired subject...


The BBC is for the new Ka SATs so: you don't need them now & don't need them for your HR-10, but will need them later for your HR-20.


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## Trampis (Feb 16, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> The BBC is for the new Ka SATs so: you don't need them now & don't need them for your HR-10, but will need them later for your HR-20.


Much obliged Veryoldschool! Does that mean that when the new Ka SATs come online that my HR10 will not work anymore?


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Trampis said:


> Much obliged Veryoldschool! Does that mean that when the new Ka SATs come online that my HR10 will not work anymore?


Welcome to the forums, Trampis! :welcome_s

The HR10 will still get all the programming it gets today, but will not get any of the new HD programming coming later this year.

Cheers,
Tom


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## poonjahb (Mar 16, 2004)

Not sure if this is the right place to ask, but here goes...

I am looking at buying a Terk TV-44 antenna to mount on my dish for OTA HD channels. I have read the good and the bad and really do not want to mess with mounting another antenna anywhere on my house.

My question is, with the way the TV-44 feeds the signal over the same satellite cables that are already in use, will this cause a conflict between the B-Band Converters and the Diplexer in the OTA antenna? I just want to make sure that I can use this for my HD locals and still be able to get all the new HD channels when the birds finally do go up, as I have a feeling my area is probably going to be one of the last to get HD locals through the dish.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

poonjahb said:


> Not sure if this is the right place to ask, but here goes...
> 
> I am looking at buying a Terk TV-44 antenna to mount on my dish for OTA HD channels. I have read the good and the bad and really do not want to mess with mounting another antenna anywhere on my house.
> 
> My question is, with the way the TV-44 feeds the signal over the same satellite cables that are already in use, will this cause a conflict between the B-Band Converters and the Diplexer in the OTA antenna? I just want to make sure that I can use this for my HD locals and still be able to get all the new HD channels when the birds finally do go up, as I have a feeling my area is probably going to be one of the last to get HD locals through the dish.


The way that the antenna feeds signals over the satellite cables will conflict with the BBC signals. And the TERK might not be capable of the wide range of satellite frequencies so might mess with the HI band KA as well.

If you have an attic, I suggest getting an antenna an put it in there.

Cheers
Tom


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

tech7021 said:


> Where are you located? I might be able to get someone out to you sooner.


I have a question for you. What kind of splitters would you suggest using on a dual LNB satellite setup that supports 10 TiVos and three multiswitches? I have been a Directv customer since 02 and have never met a tech or installer or whatever they call you who could answer this question. Answer correctly and I will have a suggestion that could change your life. Curious?

If anyone else knows the answer, please give him a chance to answer first.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Ken984 said:


> My HR20 has one bbc connected, the other was bad out of the box, no signal at all with it connected. I called D* and of course the guy said "you don't need those" and wouldn't ship me a new one. Guess I will have to call back and argue with somebody else about it.


Keep calling until you get the Oregon call center. Most knowledgable and helpful call center.


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