# American Idol (Top 7 - redux)



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Well we get to do it all over again .. with Disco no less 

Don't forget to pad those recordings. We went over last week with only 2 Judges per contestant and I'm not sure they are going to do that again. It's currently scheduled for 61 minutes and I wouldn't be shocked to see 65 or more minutes.


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## Hutchinshouse (Sep 28, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> Well we get to do it all over again .. with Disco no less
> 
> Don't forget to pad those recordings. We went over last week with only 2 Judges per contestant and I'm not sure they are going to do that again. It's currently scheduled for 61 minutes and I wouldn't be shocked to see 65 or more minutes.


I pad 15 minutes just to be safe. 

Tonight should be fun!


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## Henry (Nov 15, 2007)

Oops ... thanks for the reminder ... _I'm off_!!


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## Henry (Nov 15, 2007)

HDG said:


> Oops ... thanks for the reminder ... _I'm off_!!


Done! Juggled some 8PM (M) timers around so I won't have two of them firing and cutting off the end of the show. Padded my AI timer 10 minutes.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

There are some reports that Anoop will sing



Spoiler



_Dim all the lights_ by Donna Summer ..

Donna Summer Version


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

As Randy would say, "So check it out..." 

When Kris sang, I forgot about Lil.

When Danny sang, I thought he was OK, but not better than Kris.

When Allison sang, I forgot about Danny and Kris. I loved that arrangement of _Hot Stuff_, no matter what the Randy and Kara said, and she sang it well.

When Adam sang, I forgot about Allison!

After that it was downhill. Solid performances by Matt and Anoop, but not enough to keep them from joining Lil in the bottom three tomorrow night, IMHO.

Glad we were back to four judges and Ryan didn't waste any time this week. Much better this way. /steve


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## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

So Allison's performance was "indulgent" but Adam's was "original"? Gimme a break, that was the most blatant show of favoritism by the judges on that show that I have ever seen.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Adam and Allison again.


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## vankai (Jan 22, 2007)

Simon told Matt that he was in idol-land, basically saying his performance was ok on that stage, but not good for the real world. 

I had just finished telling the wife the same thing about Adam.....over the top popular for this show, but I won't go rush out to buy anything he records in the future. When I'm out back flipping some burgers, drinking a cold one, I don't see myself saying "Hey, throw on some Lambert tunes". As far as AI popularity, I would be surprised if Adam did not win this year.

Of the final 7, I would consider buying some Danny, Kris or Allison tunes.

Heck, I'll even go out on a limb, and predict that Allison will be the most successful of the group.


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

It sounded to me like Danny shouted through most of his song, and although I liked the arrangement of Adam's song, I didn't care for a couple of the really high notes he went for. Kris, however, was Da Bomb tonight. I would never have imagined him doing "She Works Hard for the Money", but his arrangement was amazing and his vocals were outstanding, and he may have just moved over Adam in my estimation of who is the American Idol.

Regarding the arrangements, how does that work? Can any contestant obtain the services of a professional or is that reserved for a select few? Adam praised the arranger for his song, Kris obviously had a different arrangement for his song, but Matt and Lil went with the traditional arrangements for their songs. Was that their choice? How much choice do the contestants actually have in song arrangements?


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## joshjr (Aug 2, 2008)

Matt is still my favorite. I voted for him a bout 100 times. I thought Adam did a good job tonight though.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Oh .. Adam was by far the best tonight .. For me, the only other two worthy of a vote were Anoop and Kris (not necessarily in that order).

Allison :nono2: .. Danny? Nice but what's going on? .. Lil? Matt? See ya.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Well as we jump to the final 5.. Sorry but from my vantage point Adam is clearly head and sholders above any of the other contestants... Kris has talent.. but to me I would place Adam in group A (far ahead) with Allison and Kris in group B. Danny in Group C and the rest I really are much further down the pole .

My order Tonight

Adam
Kris
Allison
Danny
Matt
Anoop
Lil


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## peak_reception (Feb 10, 2008)

I thought Disco night would be more fun. There was some excellent singing but a lot of the fun factor was just not there, at least for me. i wish at least one of the contestants would've spoofed the genre and gone disco crazy for laughs with outta-sight wardrobe and all the rest.

Adam's song was so sad he nearly had Paula sobbing beyond control (you could actually see her hands shaking with emotion afterwards while Simon was talking). It must be said he did an excellent job with it but for me it was Tracks of My Tears revisited. Another great performance, but on Disco night? What a pro he is though. Maybe too much so for A.I.

Kris' song wasn't that sad but it wasn't too fun either. Lots of adjectives would apply: admirable, sincere, earnest, authentic, competent, but not fun. Certainly not bad. He did make it different and in line with who he is musically. And most importantly of all... HE KNOWS WHO HE IS MUSICALLY! (unlike the two coming next).

Lil and Matt I will group together because they keep making the same fundamental mistake in my view. They both put everything they had into not just paying tribute to the original, but outshining it. A good aspiration i suppose but it meant in both cases overloading their respective songs with a lethal overdose of overdone cliches, completely without irony. Did anyone enjoy Lil's performance? Her wannabe status is now fully established. She has no originality. At least Matt looked like he was enjoying himself but (with apology to joshjr) I suspect most viewers were enjoying it a whole lot less than he (Matt) was. The unending note runs he weighed down the finale with reminded me of... excuse me for putting it this way, but... musical diarrhea. With the one exception of last week when he "sang for his life" (ugh) and just sang the song for a change, he just doesn't know when to stop. A very good singer but almost always too much! Matt and Lil have no unique core, they simply beg, borrow and steal from others. There's musical talent in both cases but little (Matt) or no (Lil) musical originality, imo. Ouch, that sounds harsh but that's how I see (hear) them now.

Allison turned out some great singing but there wasn't much fun in her song either. Maybe I was off-base to think that disco night was going to be a lot of fun? Before and after her performance it looked like she was trying to be more "likeable" as Simon keeps harping on. So she had on the stupid glasses beforehand, and rubbed up against Ryan afterward while her number was on the screen. Ugh. F* Simon and just be yourself again Allison. As someone else posted earlier today, she'll be a lot better off *not* winning this competition. Rehearing her performance hasn't changed my opinion; very strong vocally but not very memorable except maybe for the outfit.

Danny was a bulldozer again which plays to his strength as a power singer but also reveals his weakness of one-dimensionality. His velvet voice was on full display. Sexy though, as Paula claims? I guess she would know better than I. Where was his white leather dinner jacket we saw earlier in the season? Would've been much more suited to disco night than the black and jeans he settled on.

On the other hand there was also Twilight Zone of comments after Kris' song about the business of Kris shopping for womens' clothes, and Simon wondering aloud (in response to Paula's comments) if Kris shops for womens' underwear. Bizarre and disrespectful. Kris winced and shook his head in disbelief. . The judges acted like they were on a disco era drug bender, especially Paula and Simon.

Alright, now that I"ve gotten all that negativity out of my system here is something positive:

Anoop. Way to go Anoop! I have to agree with Kara and Paula that this was of his top performances of the competition so far. Beautifully sung (except for the closing which Randy noted) he really showed his musical mettle Tuesday night. Though not exactly "fun" (by the time his song rolled around i was resigned to there not being any fun on disco night) it was simply and beautifully crafted. Unlike Matt and Lil, Anoop is smart enough to have found his niche (vocally controlled ballads) and is expanding impressively within that niche. The uptempo portion was surprisingly good too. Even though he tripped up on the ending somewhat, it was refreshing to me that in his face you could see that he knew that he didn't finish the way he wanted to and wasn't trying to hide it. What came before made up for the misstep at the end. Simon can't stand him but Anoop is an excellent singer in his zone. He was in the zone Tuesday. On editing i'm going to ding him one slot for the pink sweater vest 

I would rank Tuesday's performances as follows:

1) Adam 2) Allison 4) Kris 3) Anoop 5) Danny 6) Matt 7) Lil


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

Disco night was a let down for me. So many fun songs that could have been done but no one really stepped up. There were some good performances but nothing that really wowed me like in weeks past. I really don't remember many of the performances.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

_Dial Idol_ has Lil on top, ahead of Adam and Danny, and Allison on the bottom. The _Vote For The Worst_ crowd is out in full force, probably trying to make Simon eat his words! If that's in any way an accurate sample of the vote, tonight could get ugly! /steve


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

*IMO*, all of Adam's performances are so over dramatic, indulgent, and "theater-ish." He doesn't seem to be a real and normal person on stage, but rather an actor in a role as a singer. Like he "turns on" for his performance. I think he gets songs specially arranged for him by "better" producers. The record execs see big $$ in him and want to make him win & succeed, rather than succeed as a runner-up like past contestants.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Steve said:


> As Randy would say, "So check it out..."
> 
> When Kris sang, I forgot about Lil.
> 
> ...


Spot on. My ranking:

Adam
Allison
Kris 
Danny
Matt
Anoop
Lil


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## Hutchinshouse (Sep 28, 2006)

Steve said:


> _Dial Idol_ has Lil on top, ahead of Adam and Danny, and Allison on the bottom. The _Vote For The Worst_ crowd is out in full force, probably trying to make Simon eat his words! If that's in any way an accurate sample of the vote, tonight could get ugly! /steve


That is funny, but sad. If this is accurate, I bet AI still cans Lil (and Matt). AI will not let a "hate group" dictate the show. The general public votes for the best singer/most popular. AI(19) is pulling for the most marketable.

*If Lil goes home tonight. It confirms one of two things:*
*1.* AI has the final vote.
*2.* The Dial Idol algorithm stinks.

My money is on AI has the final vote.


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## jodyguercio (Aug 16, 2007)

OK that's it. I can't watch anymore, just end the show, hand Adam the contract and let's be done with the Adam love fest........I swear Paula is annoying enough without having to watch her stupid reactions to him every time he sings. 

Sigma you are so right, he's an actor. Not that he's not a good singer,he is a great singer, but what's his angle? Why go on Idol when you are this good? You can't land a deal on your own? Something doesn't add up.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Hutchinshouse said:


> That is funny, but sad. If this is accurate, I bet AI still cans Lil (and Matt). *AI will not let a "hate group" dictate the show.* The general public votes for the best singer/most popular. AI(19) is pulling for the most marketable.
> 
> *If Lil goes home tonight. It confirms one of two things:*
> *1.* AI has the final vote.
> ...


It worked for Taylor Hicks. :lol:


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## Hutchinshouse (Sep 28, 2006)

sigma1914 said:


> It worked for Taylor Hicks. :lol:


You got me there! :lol:

Perhaps, AI will learn from that.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Hutchinshouse said:


> My money is on AI has the final vote.


I'd like to believe that, but I suspect they really do count the votes. That would explain the longevity of contestants like Sanjaya in years past, and why they changed the format this year, to the three groups of 12 facing elimination, and the "save".

Since they'll probably never institute the judges' ability to _force_ a person off the show (opposite of a "save"), maybe they need a system where the judges vote each week as well. The overall vote can then be "weighted" by the judges' votes, maybe 2/3 public and 1/3 judges? /steve


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

dialidol doesn't predict anything this week ..


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> dialidol doesn't predict anything this week ..


They don't dare! :lol: Lil is the top scorer, tho, at 25.8. Adam right behind at 25.73. Allison bringing up the rear, at 17.95. Here's what they have to say:

_"Make no mistake about it - the predictions are simply too close to call this week. No one is predicted to be flat-out safe for the first time this season therefore DialIdol can't be wrong because it really isn't making any prediction."_

/steve


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

By BILL CARTER of The New York Times, published: April 20, 2009

_"Things just seem to happen like this for Simon Cowell:

He is judging contestants for the reality show he owns, "Britain's Got Talent"; a middle-aged woman from Scotland walks onstage and begins to sing; and somewhere in the recesses of the Simon Cowell empire, cash registers start to ring. [more]"_


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## Sharkie_Fan (Sep 26, 2006)

jodyguercio said:


> OK that's it. I can't watch anymore, just end the show, hand Adam the contract and let's be done with the Adam love fest........I swear Paula is annoying enough without having to watch her stupid reactions to him every time he sings.
> 
> Sigma you are so right, he's an actor. Not that he's not a good singer,he is a great singer, but what's his angle? Why go on Idol when you are this good? You can't land a deal on your own? Something doesn't add up.


If you were a record producer, would you give Adam a contract, straight up, outside the context of Idol?

I think alot of them wouldn't. To me, he looks like he was BORN to do musical theater. He looks like he BELONGS on Broadway.

I think alot of record execs would look at him and think the same thing, and question whether someone with that talent would translate into a "pop star".

Even within the context of Idol, that is my big question with Adam. He's got talent up the wazoo, but can that translate into a pop career with his personality and uniqueness, and a skill set that screams broadway.

Idol is his chance to get that record deal to try his hand at being a "pop star", if that is his true aspiration.

As far as the performances. I hate, hate, hate disco, so I rather enjoyed the fact that, for the most part, there wasn't any disco last night! :lol:

I actually would put Kris as my favorite last night, followed by Adam.

After that, Danny and Anoop in the second tier.

I would actually put Allison, Lil, and Matt in my bottom 3. Although, the end of Anoops song may put him down and let Matt or Allison climb out of the bottom 3. That was painful.

I thought Allison was a train wreck last night. I hated the arrangement, and didn't think the singing was much better. I felt like we were back to not being able to understand 90% of what she said.

I also figured out part of what bothers me about Allison. It hit me about 1/2 way through her song last night. Some of her phrasing, and her inflections, sound just like Christina Aguilera. Christina's voice coming out of Allison just is wierd. It's not that Allison is "bad" or doing a "poor imitation"... it just throws me off at certain points. I wish I could remember what part of the song it was last night that it hit me. If I get a chance I'll try to listen back to her song... it was just a really odd moment for me.

One other thing. When Allison sings, at times, she looks as if she's going to be ill on stage. I have a hard time watching her. I find I like her alot more if I close my eyes.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Sharkie_Fan said:


> I thought Allison was a train wreck last night. I hated the arrangement, and didn't think the singing was much better. I felt like we were back to not being able to understand 90% of what she said.


I didn't like it either .. My wife thought it wasn't that good either and she like Allison. I totally didn't get why the Judges were foaming at the mouth over the performance. She wasn't completely terrible, but it wasn't that good.



> One other thing. When Allison sings, at times, she looks as if she's going to be ill on stage. I have a hard time watching her. I find I like her alot more if I close my eyes.


Many Idol performances are much better with closed eyes


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## jodyguercio (Aug 16, 2007)

Good points Sharkie. You know what, that's what it is for me. I couldn't put my finger on why I don't like Adam on the show. He's not a pop star, he's going to win, no question. He'll do his one record for the label and move on to Broadway, just like Clay, Fantasia,Taylor,and all the rest who weren't meant to be pop stars.

Allison on the other hand, a lot of her problems are due to her age. She's only 16. With the right coaching, she will go on to do big things in the pop world.

I really don't get Lil being astounded that all the judges still don't get who she is musically. I like her voice and she can sing, but every time she sings I don't hear her singing, I hear whoever originally did the song or made it popular. Not Lil.


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## Sharkie_Fan (Sep 26, 2006)

jodyguercio said:


> Allison on the other hand, a lot of her problems are due to her age. She's only 16. With the right coaching, she will go on to do big things in the pop world.


I believe you are 100% correct here.

She has the talent, for sure. Give her some more maturity, teach her what it is to "connect with an audience", how to e-nun-ci-ate, and she'll do very well for herself.

I think, as far as this "competition" goes, she might be in trouble. She "seems" to not have as large a following as some of the other contestants, and IMO, last night wasn't one of her better performances.

In the much bigger picture, she'll get a contract, and with some work, she's going to have a very nice career.

Not to keep harping on it, but look at what someone like Kellie Picker, or Bucky Covington have done since leaving the show. I thought they were both downright bad when they were on the show, and now they're both respectable recording artists.

Allison has, I think, WAY more talent than either of those two examples. Give her the coaching that they've received, and she's going to be just fine!


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## peak_reception (Feb 10, 2008)

I think I owe Matt an apology. "It wasn't _that_ bad" to quote Scott MacIntyre. I just get frustrated by the relentless musical window-dressing he slathers over every song he covers, trying to make every song his own. Same with Lil really. Make them your own by just being yourself for a change! 

I'll need to go back and listen to Allison's song again. Maybe I'm pulling for her to where it's clouding my judgment. Last week's song was worse for me the second time around. I do think she'll be better off -- both personally and professionally -- once she leaves the show. I only want her stay on for the selfish reason that I enjoy her performances and want to hear more. I want to hear another "Alone" or "I Can't Make You Love Me," both of which were imho superb.

I went back and listened again to all the performances. Adjusted my initial take some (on page 1) after the rehearing. Still didn't feel the fun or love though


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

Re: Fairness and Dial Idol

I've said it before and I'll say it again: viewer votes need to be limited to the number of contestants still performing, rather than allowing an unlimited number of votes. Dancing with the Stars limits the number of votes and I think that forces the viewer to be selective in their votes. If you have 7 performers, you're only allowed to call 7 times, so your votes matter more.


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## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

Matt and Lil were intended to go home this week. The judges used the "save" on Matt last week figuring it was meaningless as it only meant both Matt and Lil would go home this week instead of one at a time. The judging was setup that way, blasting Matt and Lil, moderate good work for Allison and Anoop (didn't like it, but you can sing...), heaping praise on Kris and Danny, and of course, decrying the incredibly original and brilliant artistry of Adam. 
After last night, I truly hope that VFTW does spoil their plans as no one but Adam or Danny has ever had a shot at this thing from the start. Kris is just being built up to ensure a 3 guy final but will be summarily dismissed.
Unforutnately, it looks like Allison might be first to get caught in the cross-fire, but if they can take out Adam or Danny (or dare I dream, both of them) in the process, I'm all for it.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Have to disagree with you BattleScott. At the beginning everyone had a shot in my opinion and I have to say at this point the cream has raised to the top. In my opinion Adam by no means was a shoe in, but I do feel at this point he has done things the right way. In doing this he has become the front runner. Allison has also done her share to reach into the top tier as has Kris. Danny to me has the story going for him but also has some good vocals but is just too one dimensional I think. 

Remember at one point everyone thought Daughtry was going to win and that did not happen. I do hope Adam will win because he is the best. Will that translate into a successful career? Time will tell and I think he will do ok. The others I think have a shot at a Kris and Allison. Danny to me is good but does not have that little extra that gets you over the top. 

As for VFTW, personally I have always hate actions like this. If you don't like the show, don't watch it but trying to screw with it to me is childish and just not cool. I have to agree with some others that they need to control how many times one can vote, but given AI loves saying things like 34 million votes I don't see it happening.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Our little Poll here @ DBSTalk.com has been pretty good at predicting who goes home .. I wouldn't be shocked for us to be right again despite Lil's top ranking @ dialidol.com. Either way, doesn't look like anyone is safe tonight .. including Adam.


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## Henry (Nov 15, 2007)

Adam will be fine ... America is fickle, not stupid.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> Our little Poll here @ DBSTalk.com has been pretty good at predicting who goes home .. I wouldn't be shocked for us to be right again despite Lil's top ranking @ dialidol.com. Either way, doesn't look like anyone is safe tonight .. including Adam.


It will be a very uncomfortable moment if Lil survives tonite thanks to VFTW. No matter who else is eliminated, the look on the judges' faces if she doesn't go will probably make their Daughty elimination reaction look like mild indigestion, in comparison to what we'll see tonight.  /steve


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## waynebtx (Dec 24, 2006)

Lil needs to go and Matt will number 2.


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## Henry (Nov 15, 2007)

peak_reception said:


> I think I owe Matt an apology. _[...]_


And I think I owe an apology to Allison. It's not smugness or arrogance that I'm detecting: I think it's melancholy.

If my math holds water and that illusive _something_ is indeed falling into place, she was 13 when she won Telemundo's Quinceanera competition. She's now 16 (17 on Apr 27 - Happy Birthday, Sweetie!) and is by all accounts a major force on AI-8. This girl hasn't had the time to grow up, much less deal with super-stardom.

Is it me, or does anyone else smell a stage-mom or dad or aunt or uncle - you know; that lower lifeform still legally able to circumvent child labor laws?

Is her maturity borne of talent ... or parental pressure? Are her similarities in character to David A. coincidental or part of a pattern?

I no longer dislike her as much as I worry for her.

_Of course, this is but a theory, subject to change._


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## jodyguercio (Aug 16, 2007)

HDG said:


> And I think I owe an apology to Allison. It's not smugness or arrogance that I'm detecting: I think it's melancholy.
> 
> If my math holds water and that illusive _something_ is indeed falling into place, she was 13 when she won Telemundo's Quinceanera competition. She's now 16 (17 on Apr 27 - Happy Birthday, Sweetie!) and is by all accounts a major force on AI-8. This girl hasn't had the time to grow up, much less deal with super-stardom.
> 
> ...


Henry I think Allison, much like David A from last season, just truly loves what she is doing.

Her youth is her biggest challenge for her. Talent-wise, she is head and shoulders above everyone else in the competition, even everyone's favorite Adam.

She'll have a very bright career if she just has the fortune to be associated with the right agent and management company.


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## Henry (Nov 15, 2007)

jodyguercio said:


> Henry I think Allison, much like David A from last season, just truly loves what she is doing.
> 
> Her youth is her biggest challenge for her. Talent-wise, she is head and shoulders above everyone else in the competition, even everyone's favorite Adam.
> 
> She'll have a very bright career if she just has the fortune to be associated with the right agent and management company.


Time will tell, Jody... and don't think I overlooked your diss on Adam.


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## jodyguercio (Aug 16, 2007)

HDG said:


> Time will tell, Jody... and don't think I overlooked your diss on Adam.


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## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

Ron Barry said:


> Have to disagree with you BattleScott. At the beginning everyone had a shot in my opinion and I have to say at this point the cream has raised to the top. In my opinion Adam by no means was a shoe in, but I do feel at this point he has done things the right way. In doing this he has become the front runner. Allison has also done her share to reach into the top tier as has Kris. Danny to me has the story going for him but also has some good vocals but is just too one dimensional I think.
> 
> Remember at one point everyone thought Daughtry was going to win and that did not happen. I do hope Adam will win because he is the best. Will that translate into a successful career? Time will tell and I think he will do ok. The others I think have a shot at a Kris and Allison. Danny to me is good but does not have that little extra that gets you over the top.
> 
> As for VFTW, personally I have always hate actions like this. If you don't like the show, don't watch it but trying to screw with it to me is childish and just not cool. I have to agree with some others that they need to control how many times one can vote, but given AI loves saying things like 34 million votes I don't see it happening.


I have always thought the VTFW influence was negligable, still do for that matter. Even if there were voting caps, I don't think it would change the results because the percentages would still be the same. In fact, I would tend to believe that "fans" of the show would be more inclined to vote multiple times moreso than the average VFTW voter. Reducing the number of votes/person might actually have the reverse effect of increasing the impact of the VTFW voters.

As for the rest of it, it is clear that Adam is the chosen one, they would praise him if he came out on stage, squealed and took a dump (I think there might be an episode of South Park in there somewhere... ).
I am not at all a fan, but Kris's performance was the only really "relavant" performance, to steal a Simonism. He was far and away the best last night and should have been awarded that honor by the judges. Allison's was second, but of course she got the obligatory "we hated the song choice, the arrangement was indulgent (how they can possibly justify using that as a criticism in a contest that includes Adam is amazing), but you CAN sing" load of garbage. Matt's (who I cannot stand) was probably the third best. He at least made the disco song interesting and entertaining in a differnt style. Anoop was fourth. Again, not a fan, but at least he made an attempt. Lil and Danny both stunk as usual with neither one of them doing anything interesting with the songs. If not for Danny's personal story and the continued oozing of unwarranted praises by the judges, he would not have made the top 10 let alone the top 5.

"That's all I have to say about that." 
_ - Forest Gump, from the movie Forest Gump..._


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

BattleScott said:


> As for the rest of it, it is clear that Adam is the chosen one, they would praise him if he came out on stage, squealed and took a dump (I think there might be an episode of South Park in there somewhere...)


!rolling


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## peak_reception (Feb 10, 2008)

BattleScott said:


> I have always thought the VTFW influence was negligable, still do for that matter. Even if there were voting caps, I don't think it would change the results because the percentages would still be the same. In fact, I would tend to believe that "fans" of the show would be more inclined to vote multiple times moreso than the average VFTW voter. Reducing the number of votes/person might actually have the reverse effect of increasing the impact of the VTFW voters.
> 
> As for the rest of it, it is clear that Adam is the chosen one, they would praise him if he came out on stage, squealed and took a dump (I think there might be an episode of South Park in there somewhere... ).
> I am not at all a fan, but Kris's performance was the only really "relavant" performance, to steal a Simonism. He was far and away the best last night and should have been awarded that honor by the judges. Allison's was second, but of course she got the obligatory "we hated the song choice, the arrangement was indulgent (how they can possibly justify using that as a criticism in a contest that includes Adam is amazing), but you CAN sing" load of garbage. Matt's (who I cannot stand) was probably the third best. He at least made the disco song interesting and entertaining in a differnt style. Anoop was fourth. Again, not a fan, but at least he made an attempt. Lil and Danny both stunk as usual with neither one of them doing anything interesting with the songs. If not for Danny's personal story and the continued oozing of unwarranted praises by the judges, he would not have made the top 10 let alone the top 5.
> ...


 BattleScott, you need to come out of your shell and let the rest of us know what you really think


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Hmmm that is not how I understand VFTW works. I thought people that support the site used dialers to drive the numbers up? I personally don't know if it makes a difference, but given some of the weird things that go on I suspect there has been an effect in the past.. Can we say Sanjia? There are a lot of AI haters out there that I am sure enjoy participating in such actions. I do think as the show goes on, VFTW would have less of an effect. 

BattleScott as for who was tops and who was relevant last night. I will leave it as that is your opinion as I have mine which I stated earlier and they obviously don't match.


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## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

peak_reception said:


> BattleScott, you need to come out of your shell and let the rest of us know what you really think


Just keepin' it real dog, just keepin' it real...


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## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

Ron Barry said:


> Hmmm that is not how I understand VFTW works. I thought people that support the site used dialers to drive the numbers up? I personally don't know if it makes a difference, but given some of the weird things that go on I suspect there has been an effect in the past.. Can we say Sanjia? There are a lot of AI haters out there that I am sure enjoy participating in such actions. I do think as the show goes on, VFTW would have less of an effect.
> 
> BattleScott as for who was tops and who was relevant last night. I will leave it as that is your opinion as I have mine which I stated earlier and they obviously don't match.


The dialers are used by everone, not just VFTW. Sanjya actually had quite a vocal following, especially the "younger female" audience. I don't think that VFTW had much if anything to do with him staying around longer that he should have. Rememeber everyone has fans, Kelly Pickler was once VFTW endorsed as well.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Oh crap .. I just checked Channel 388 (DIRECTV) and it's showing Fox East for me .. I'm on the West Coast ..


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## joshjr (Aug 2, 2008)

Anyone that did not notice channel 88 FOXe is on right now. Watch Idol in HD!!


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Allison in the Bottom 3 .. Hmmm ..

Well, Anoop is gone and I'll miss the guy, but it was pretty clear from the folks here that I'm in the minority. I'm very surprised that Matt was not in the bottom three, though.

So now we're down to 5 .. Matt is clearly the worst of what's left .. I'm gonna guess that Kris and Allison will be the other two in the bottom three, but it certainly could be Danny instead of one of those two.


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## joshjr (Aug 2, 2008)

Doug Brott said:


> Allison in the Bottom 3 .. Hmmm ..
> 
> Well, Anoop is gone and I'll miss the guy, but it was pretty clear from the folks here that I'm in the minority. I'm very surprised that Matt was not in the bottom three, though.
> 
> So now we're down to 5 .. Matt is clearly the worst of what's left .. I'm gonna guess that Kris and Allison will be the other two in the bottom three, but it certainly could be Danny instead of one of those two.


I voted for Matt about 100 times last night. Im pulling for him to go further. Dont know if he can win it but I am gonna do my part. I also like Adam but not really a Danny fan. Allison is good but not as good as Adam or Matt in my opinion lol.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Allison has now been in the bottom 3 more then once, may be hard for her to get to finals. Shame. But we'll see ..


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

joshjr said:


> I voted for Matt about 100 times last night.


As you've mentioned in this thread (and every other Idol thread) already. I can't see actually picking up the phone and voting once, but 100 times? Not to be rude or anything, but how old are you?


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

It was surprising that Matt wasn't voted out, but I'm sure last week was a wake-up call to his fans and they rallied to keep him around.

So here's my new ranking:

(Adam | Kris) > Allison > Danny > Matt

I just really don't like Danny's voice or singing styles.


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## QuickDrop (Jul 21, 2007)

BattleScott said:


> The dialers are used by everone, not just VFTW. Sanjya actually had quite a vocal following, especially the "younger female" audience. I don't think that VFTW had much if anything to do with him staying around longer that he should have. Rememeber everyone has fans, Kelly Pickler was once VFTW endorsed as well.


I agree. The VFTW effect is overrated. Sanijya lasted as long as he did because he kept on finding ways to entertain the audience (In a way, he was like Adam without the talent.), not because a few hundred or thousand people can't figure out a better way to waste their time than "sabotage" a reality show.



HDG said:


> And I think I owe an apology to Allison. It's not smugness or arrogance that I'm detecting: I think it's melancholy.
> 
> If my math holds water and that illusive _something_ is indeed falling into place, she was 13 when she won Telemundo's Quinceanera competition. She's now 16 (17 on Apr 27 - Happy Birthday, Sweetie!) and is by all accounts a major force on AI-8. This girl hasn't had the time to grow up, much less deal with super-stardom.
> 
> ...


As I said in the last thread, I don't think your dislike for Allison needs an explanation. Musical tastes are musical tastes. Unless it's has something to do with some outside bias that has nothing to do with the music/performer, there's really nothing wrong with liking/disliking music/performers others dislike/like. However, since you seem to be soul searching on the Allison topic, have you considered that your problem with Allison lies not with her personality but with your own? Smugness and melancholy seem kinda to be polar opposite and I have seen no real examples of either.

I agree that the one packaged piece about her mom wanting her to be a singer made me uncomfortable, but I've seen no evidence, personality-wise, that it has had a negative affect on her. There's been no horror stories like the ones that followed Archuleta's father throughout last year's competition. (Wasn't he eventually banned from being backstage?) Allison seems to get along great with the other contestants and is joking around with Ryan after the judges' verdict. Personality-wise, I don't view her so much as mature (forced or not) as a typical sarcastic teenager. The only thing melancholy about her might be her singing, which like a lot of decent rock vocalists, is rooted in the blues, which certainly has a melancholy strain.

With all that said, and though, in my opinion, she has the best shot of producing a record I would listen to, I don't think she has a chance in hell of winning the competition. I don't think she's yet done the kind of commanding performance, like Adam has several times, that blows the doors of the place. Her obvious talent has been consistent, but doesn't produce those "water cooler" moments.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

I think the fact that 45 million voted last night neutralized the VFTW effect. The 10 million extra votes were probably "legit" and from fans who up until now weren't voting (or weren't voting multiple times). 

I was happy to see the way they handled the Lil elimination right up front and in a classy manner. I was surprised to see Anoop go and not Matt, but I think at this point it's probably a given that Adam's gonna win, so what difference does it make what order the others fall by the wayside? 

That said, I was mildly surprised to see Allison in the bottom three. I wonder if "looks" aren't now coming into play? E.g., what if Adam and Allison are the "blue state" picks, and Kris and Danny the "red state" picks? If that logic holds up, I would expect to see an Adam vs. Kris or Danny finale, even though I'd personally like to see an Adam vs. Allison finale. 

Just my .02. /steve


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## waynebtx (Dec 24, 2006)

Yea Lil is gone i also was very suprised to see Allison in the bottom three


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## Hutchinshouse (Sep 28, 2006)

Allison should inherit Lil's fans, Kris should inherit Anoop's fans. I'm guessing Matt will be the VFTW pick too. Based upon all of this, I predict Adam goes home next week. All of his songs sound the same. His high pitch scream (that he feels "adds" to a song) is a joke. Sure, Adam would rule on a Vegas showroom floor. He will not rule the record charts. If I'm a record executive, Kris is the only marketable contestant. All the others are AI fluff.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

I am hoping for an Adam vs. Kris final. I one point I had Kris as the black horse, but that guy has been gaining momentum with each week and I think he now has a legit shot at the finals if he keeps it going.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Hutchinshouse said:


> Allison should inherit Lil's fans, Kris should inherit Anoop's fans. I'm guessing Matt will be the VFTW pick too. Based upon all of this, I predict Adam goes home next week. All of his songs sound the same. His high pitch scream (that he feels "adds" to a song) is a joke. Sure, Adam would rule on a Vegas showroom floor. He will not rule the record charts. If I'm a record executive, Kris is the only marketable contestant. All the others are AI fluff.


Totally disagree on the All Adam's songs sound the same. He by far as been the most unique week on and week out in my opinion with Kris 2nd in terms of showing versatility. I take you up on that bet... If you win I will state you rock and rule in my signature for a week and if I win you will do the same in yours.  Oh.. and we also have to admit how off we were with our music taste. Bet?

As for marketable... That is a hard one... I would have said that about Kelly Pickler and Bucky. The bottom line is you don't know until they release their albums. Been a while since I bought an AI album.. (Daughtry was my last).

All depends on how good the albums are that each of the final group releases and their timing of releasing the album. I personally plan on checking out all the final 5 albums if they produce them but my guess is only Adam and Kris would land up in my iPod.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

I like Kris's persona a lot, but honestly haven't found anything he's sung so far "memorable". He's not a Daughtry, IMHO. I'm not even sure he's a Blake Lewis.

OTOH, I think Allison is this year's Daughtry. Even if she's voted-off next week or the week after, she'll have no problem finding a following.

RE: Adam. The boy has the most natural talent of the bunch, IMO. That said, I'm not sure how much of a living you can make simply singing interesting arrangements of other people's songs to start a career. That may be why we hadn't heard of him up to now, in spite of the professional exposure he's already had.

With any of these kids that are left, their voices or stage presence are probably no longer an issue at this point... future success will boil down to how much songwriting talent they have, or their skill in picking others to write songs for them. My .02. /steve


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## Hutchinshouse (Sep 28, 2006)

Ron Barry said:


> Totally disagree on the All Adam's songs sound the same. He by far as been the most unique week on and week out in my opinion with Kris 2nd in terms of showing versatility. I take you up on that bet... If you win I will state you rock and rule in my signature for a week and if I win you will do the same in yours.  Oh.. and we also have to admit how off we were with our music taste. Bet?
> 
> As for marketable... That is a hard one... I would have said that about Kelly Pickler and Bucky. The bottom line is you don't know until they release their albums. Been a while since I bought an AI album.. (Daughtry was my last).
> 
> All depends on how good the albums are that each of the final group releases and their timing of releasing the album. I personally plan on checking out all the final 5 albums if they produce them but my guess is only Adam and Kris would land up in my iPod.


Well, that would be a silly bet on my part. I'd have a 20% chance for winning. You'd have a 80% chance of winning. I'm simply expressing my opinion.

As for taste in music, I like it all: Eagles, Bee Gees, Collective Soul, Sugarland, Godsmack, Usher, Styx, Kiss, Matchbox Twenty, Black Eyed Peas, America, Elvis, Josh Groban, Barry Manilow, all disco etc, etc, etc. My point is, I like all kinds of music, yet I still dislike Adam's persona. AI is not about finding the next Broadway star. That is why Clay Aiken lost season 2.


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## machavez00 (Nov 2, 2006)

Adam=Clay in that they have voices that are more suited to musical theater. 
Allison will sing "Take it or Leave it" (original song?)as her contestant's choice for the Top Three.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Steve said:


> RE: Adam. The boy has the most natural talent of the bunch, IMO. That said, I'm not sure how much of a living you can make simply singing interesting arrangements of other people's songs to start a career. That may be why we hadn't heard of him up to now, in spite of the professional exposure he's already had.


Clearly Adam knows how to perform and he's done a fabulous job of getting songs arranged to make him sound even better. There have been many performers that have songwriters put something together for them, so if Adam has trouble in creating songs .. I'm sure a team of him and someone else will create some very memorable performances.

Adam should do very, very well in the business. I don't think he will be as big as Daughtry or Underwood, but he shouldn't be that far behind.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Darn... Was hoping fora bet.  

True... and Clay Aiken is currently #3 in Album sales next to Carrie and Kelly and well above Ruben. I am sure Daugherty will pass him up but still pretty successful for a Broadway voice. 

In my opinion strong powerful vocals like Adam and Clay can be marketed successfully if good quality songs are chosen. Actually in terms of AI contestents and their success comes down to song selection again. I was a big Fantasia fan but the CDs she made did not appeal to me. I recently took a listen to Melinda Dolittles album that I was looking forward to and found that one to be not to my liking. On the other hand Bucky and Kellie obviously found a few right songs and it has allowed them to be somewhat successful. 

To me.. AI is not about finding the next best talent. If it was Taylor Hicks would not have won and David A would not have reached where he did. All the people in the top 5 should have a shot.. The question is what one will take that shot and make an album that when people hear go.. I like that and I want to hear more. 

Adam has the vocals and if given the right music in my opinion can produce such an album. If given the wrong.. He will bomb just like Bo did. My tastes like your vary and include a lot of musical type stuff like Phantom, Rent, etc. Also was a big Kiss, Queen fan. Billy Joel, Josh Groban also is big in my book. Tayler Hicks ruined "In the Ghetto" for me and I had to listen to Elvis's version multiple times to get that horriable randition out of my head. 

I enjoy a powerful controlled voice and perhaps that is why I liked Clay's music and am an Adam fan (From first hearing his voice). Time will tell and it comes down to the album.. Still thing Kris and Adam have the best shots afterwords. 

Like I said in a earlier thread. Music taste is subjective and in the end the marketplace will decide.


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## Henry (Nov 15, 2007)

HDG said:


> And I think I owe an apology to Allison. It's not smugness or arrogance that I'm detecting: I think it's melancholy.
> 
> _[...blah, blah, blah...]_
> 
> _*Of course, this is but a theory*, subject to change._





"QuickDrop" said:


> As I said in the last thread, I don't think your dislike for Allison needs an explanation. Musical tastes are musical tastes. Unless it's has something to do with some outside bias that has nothing to do with the music/performer, there's really nothing wrong with liking/disliking music/performers others dislike/like. However, since you seem to be soul searching on the Allison topic, have you considered that your problem with Allison lies not with her personality but with your own? Smugness and melancholy seem kinda to be polar opposite and I have seen no real examples of either.
> 
> I agree that the one packaged piece about her mom wanting her to be a singer made me uncomfortable, but I've seen no evidence, personality-wise, that it has had a negative affect on her. There's been no horror stories like the ones that followed Archuleta's father throughout last year's competition. (Wasn't he eventually banned from being backstage?) Allison seems to get along great with the other contestants and is joking around with Ryan after the judges' verdict. Personality-wise, I don't view her so much as mature (forced or not) as a typical sarcastic teenager. The only thing melancholy about her might be her singing, which like a lot of decent rock vocalists, is rooted in the blues, which certainly has a melancholy strain.
> 
> With all that said, and though, in my opinion, she has the best shot of producing a record I would listen to, I don't think she has a chance in hell of winning the competition. I don't think she's yet done the kind of commanding performance, like Adam has several times, that blows the doors of the place. Her obvious talent has been consistent, but doesn't produce those "water cooler" moments.


Sorry if I struck a nerve, _QuickDrop_. It was just an opinion. I was being conversational, as most people here are. If I had known you'd take it personal, I would have resisted the temptation to discuss it.

And, yes, David A.'s dad was banned from the set late in the season.


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## barryb (Aug 27, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> Adam should do very, very well in the business. I don't think he will be as big as Daughtry or Underwood, but he shouldn't be that far behind.


I could not agree more Doug. What Adam brings to the plate is something different, and not everyone likes "different".


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

machavez00 said:


> Allison will sing "Take it or Leave it" (original song?)as her contestant's choice for the Top Three.


When I first heard that original song, it's what convinced me that Allison will have no problem making a nice little career for herself.

And even if she were somehow to go on to win, I doubt it would enhance her prospects any. I think she's already milked the _Idol_ experience for all she needs to move on. Now it's up to her "management" to make the most of it. /steve


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## heathramos (Dec 19, 2005)

Drew2k said:


> It was surprising that Matt wasn't voted out, but I'm sure last week was a wake-up call to his fans and they rallied to keep him around.
> 
> So here's my new ranking:
> 
> ...


Hmm...my rankings would be:

Allison > Kris > Danny > Adam > Matt

Oh...and I would have kept Anoop instead of Matt this week.


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## Henry (Nov 15, 2007)

Anoop was a bit of a surprise, but an acceptable alternative.


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## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> Clearly Adam knows how to perform and he's done a fabulous job of getting songs arranged to make him sound even better. There have been many performers that have songwriters put something together for them, so if Adam has trouble in creating songs .. I'm sure a team of him and someone else will create some very memorable performances.
> 
> Adam should do very, very well in the business. I don't think he will be as big as Daughtry or Underwood, but he shouldn't be that far behind.


He will definitely do well in the short term, but he will be a "Pop Icon" not a long term musical presence. To stay successful in the long term, you have to excel in the repeat listener market. That is where Daughtry, Carrie Underwood and Kelly Clarkson are positioned. They will continue to do well because their fans are fans of the genre first, then the artist. Adam's fans are attracted to the "bright light" not any particular musical genre. Once a new light comes around, he will quickly be forgotten.


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## Greg Alsobrook (Apr 2, 2007)

I was happy with the results last night... and glad Allison didn't get sent home.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

BattleScott said:


> He will definitely do well in the short term, but he will be a "Pop Icon" not a long term musical presence. To stay successful in the long term, you have to excel in the repeat listener market. That is where Daughtry, Carrie Underwood and Kelly Clarkson are positioned. They will continue to do well because their fans are fans of the genre first, then the artist. Adam's fans are attracted to the "bright light" not any particular musical genre. Once a new light comes around, he will quickly be forgotten.


Tell that to Aerosmith ..


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## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> Tell that to Aerosmith ..


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## peak_reception (Feb 10, 2008)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30373721/


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## Henry (Nov 15, 2007)

BattleScott said:


> He will definitely do well in the short term, but he will be a "Pop Icon" not a long term musical presence. To stay successful in the long term, you have to excel in the repeat listener market. That is where Daughtry, Carrie Underwood and Kelly Clarkson are positioned. They will continue to do well because their fans are fans of the genre first, then the artist. Adam's fans are attracted to the "bright light" not any particular musical genre. Once a new light comes around, he will quickly be forgotten.


You got a crystal ball or something? :grin:


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

The voters got it right (yet again)....


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> The voters got it right (yet again)....


I thought you didn't watch this show :shrug:


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## QuickDrop (Jul 21, 2007)

HDG said:


> Sorry if I struck a nerve, _QuickDrop_. It was just an opinion. I was being conversational, as most people here are. If I had known you'd take it personal, I would have resisted the temptation to discuss it.
> 
> And, yes, David A.'s dad was banned from the set late in the season.


Personally, I'm trying to figure out what I said in the quoted post that makes you think I took it "personal." All I did was disagree with what you wrote and explained (hopefully specifically) why I disagreed. I also, again, said that you have every right to your opinion on Allison as an artist/performer. I apologize if you somehow took it the wrong way. It was not intended.


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## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

HDG said:


> You got a crystal ball or something? :grin:


No, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express. :glasses:


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## QuickDrop (Jul 21, 2007)

Steve said:


> RE: Adam. The boy has the most natural talent of the bunch, IMO. That said, I'm not sure how much of a living you can make simply singing interesting arrangements of other people's songs to start a career. That may be why we hadn't heard of him up to now, in spite of the professional exposure he's already had.


Well, it worked pretty well for the Rolling Stones, but that is going back a ways (and besides their arrangements weren't particularly that interesting.)

To step off the Allison bandwagon I've managed to associate myself with, I both agree and disagree with your comments about Adam. To me, Adam has been by far the best "contestant" this year. He has hit it out of the ballpark numerous times and when he fails at least he fails interestingly. The arrangements of other people's songs argument I consider somewhat bogus. As much as the judges claim they want originality, what gets audience votes (and judges adoration) is doing a decent job performing very well known songs. Aside from right issues, that's why you get so many of the same songs performed year to year.

My basic problem with Adam is I don't see a unifying musical theme to his performances. My favorite performances by him have been _(I Can't Get No) Satisfaction_ and _Black or White_, though his vocals may have been better on other songs, especially compared to the former, he managed to connect them both to the trashy glam rock of the 1970s and come closer to what I consider real rock n' roll to be than all the Daughtrys in the world. I think this is especially true with _Black and White_, a somewhat generic pop song that rather safely promoted racial equality in love that through the sheer force of his personality Adam managed to subtextually turn into a gay protest/love rock song.

The problem is that his covers of songs like "Born to Wild" and "Play that Funky Music" are almost too on the nose and karaoke-ish. Adam doesn't need a "funk" song to be funky. And when he goes for the high notes, he can come across as a bit too Axl Rose-ish for my taste. (Though others might rightfully compare it to Queen.)

I also don't see how the ballads fit into his over all "style." He certainly sells them better by miles than anyone else on the show. But I don't see how they mesh with his better rock performances. Though I do think he arguably gave the only really good performance this week, I agree his "emotions" came across as pure acting. At the same time, when you see a professional performer in the midst of a world wide tour, how often do you think their emotions during their songs are truly genuine?

Of course, all this is just me randomly hypothesizing. Anyone should feel free to disagree with me as I'm fully comfortable with the idea that I have no idea what I'm talking about.


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## machavez00 (Nov 2, 2006)

Next week is Rat Pack Week, should be interesting.


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## Hutchinshouse (Sep 28, 2006)

machavez00 said:



> Next week is Rat Pack Week, should be interesting.


That is great for Matt.


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## jodyguercio (Aug 16, 2007)

machavez00 said:


> Next week is Rat Pack Week, should be interesting.


OK so Rat Pack week huh......who is going to sing what?

Allison - probably Etta James or Nat King Cole

Matt/Danny/Kris - Sinatra or Dean, maybe something from Sammy

Adam - whatever he sings will be the greatest thing since sliced bread and again will have Paula acting like a vapid little teenie bopper

Of all of them left, not counting Adam since he is going to win, Danny or Matt could be the home run hitters this week I think.

And about Matt, is it just me or is anyone else getting a weird Justin Timberlake look alike vibe from him?


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Hutchinshouse said:


> That is great for Matt.


I didn't know this, but Matt apparently made an "album" back in 2006: http://cdbaby.com/cd/giraud2 /steve


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

jodyguercio said:


> And about Matt, is it just me or is anyone else getting a weird Justin Timberlake look alike vibe from him?


Outside of the forehead mole, to me Matt's been almost a mirror of Timberlake since I first saw him. I don't think it's intentional, but there's no mistaking it to me.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

We had a little fun with who do the idols remind you of in this thread...

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=154578


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## Slip Jigs (Oct 20, 2006)

BattleScott said:


> He will definitely do well in the short term, but he will be a "Pop Icon" not a long term musical presence. To stay successful in the long term, you have to excel in the repeat listener market. That is where Daughtry, Carrie Underwood and Kelly Clarkson are positioned. They will continue to do well because their fans are fans of the genre first, then the artist. Adam's fans are attracted to the "bright light" not any particular musical genre. Once a new light comes around, he will quickly be forgotten.


I disagree. Since we're making predictions, I say he's poised to become one of the major stars of a generation. He looks like young Elvis, and I think it's finally time to crown a new King of Rock n Roll.


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## Henry (Nov 15, 2007)

Slip Jigs said:


> I disagree. Since we're making predictions, I say he's poised to become one of the major stars of a generation. He looks like young Elvis, and I think it's finally time to crown a new King of Rock n Roll.


A lot of naysayers on this site will not agree with you - but I am not one of them.


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## jodyguercio (Aug 16, 2007)

Slip Jigs said:


> I disagree. Since we're making predictions, I say he's poised to become one of the major stars of a generation. He looks like young Elvis, and I think it's finally time to crown a new King of Rock n Roll.


Adam as the next Elvis? Are you kidding? That would be like saying that MJs (Jordan not Jackson) kid is going to be better than his dad. He's good but he's no Elvis.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

I think Adam's very good as well, but he's been a "pro" for several years now without having made a big splash. I wonder why?

From a post here: _"He took private voice lessons and appeared in musicals - "Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat," "Grease," "Chess" - at the Starlight, the Lyceum and other local venues. He has over 15 years experience and training in professional musical theatre, being cast in a six-month European tour of the "Musical Hair". He has made appearances in The Zodiac Show at The Henry Fonda Music Box, and Club Makeup at the Key Club. He has even performed for audiences at the Burning Man art festival the past two years. His breakout theatre role was opposite Val Kilmer in Moses. He was cast as Joshua in The Ten Commandments at the Kodak Theatre in 2004. After 'The Ten Commandments,' Adam was cast to understudy in the 1st National Broadway Tour of Wicked. While on tour for six months, he also collaborated with Composer/Guitarist Monte Pittman (Madonna, Prong). They have written over 20 songs as the alt/pop/rock band THE CITIZEN VEIN. Right before American Idol, Adam was appearing at the Pantages Theatre in the LA Company of Wicked."_


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

From Portfolio.com:


> A back-of-the-envelope calculation of how much the hit TV show has been worth to all the stars, wannabes, and do-gooders who make money from it.


As the article says, everybody wins apparently.


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## QuickDrop (Jul 21, 2007)

Steve said:


> I didn't know this, but Matt apparently made an "album" back in 2006: http://cdbaby.com/cd/giraud2 /steve


and



Steve said:


> I think Adam's very good as well, but he's been a "pro" for several years now without having made a big splash. I wonder why?
> 
> From a post here: _"He took private voice lessons and appeared in musicals - "Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat," "Grease," "Chess" - at the Starlight, the Lyceum and other local venues. He has over 15 years experience and training in professional musical theatre, being cast in a six-month European tour of the "Musical Hair". He has made appearances in The Zodiac Show at The Henry Fonda Music Box, and Club Makeup at the Key Club. He has even performed for audiences at the Burning Man art festival the past two years. His breakout theatre role was opposite Val Kilmer in Moses. He was cast as Joshua in The Ten Commandments at the Kodak Theatre in 2004. After 'The Ten Commandments,' Adam was cast to understudy in the 1st National Broadway Tour of Wicked. While on tour for six months, he also collaborated with Composer/Guitarist Monte Pittman (Madonna, Prong). They have written over 20 songs as the alt/pop/rock band THE CITIZEN VEIN. Right before American Idol, Adam was appearing at the Pantages Theatre in the LA Company of Wicked."_


As a fan of Adam and not so much a fan of Matt, I don't really consider either that big a deal. If a person wants to be a musician/performer, of course they are going to spend their time dedicated to getting better and attempting to work their way through the business. And these days, with digital music and the internet, it's pretty easy to find/buy music from just about every unsigned musician in the universe.

The only time I have a problem is with the Carly Smithson/Joanna Pacitti situations, where artists have already had big time major label albums and A.I. wants to pass them off as new discoveries.


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

I know Adam seems to be the annointed one, but I think Kris can't be discounted. I'd be happy with Kris taking it all... and Adam will do just fine without the AI crown.


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## QuickDrop (Jul 21, 2007)

Drew2k said:


> I know Adam seems to be the annointed one, but I think Kris can't be discounted. I'd be happy with Kris taking it all... and Adam will do just fine without the AI crown.


Completely agree. I would compare it to the Melinda Doolittle - Jordan Sparks dynamic of a couple of seasons ago. Melinda/Adam were/are almost expected to blow the roof off the place while Jordan/Kris are content with being consistently good. If Kris manages to gives his "great" performance during an off week (by his standards) for Adam, I can easily see him squeaking through.


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## jodyguercio (Aug 16, 2007)

Drew you are right on, Adam is the anointed one and will go on to bigger and better things. Someone like Kris, Danny, or even Allison will benefit greater from this experience if they were lucky enough to be chosen the winner.


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## Henry (Nov 15, 2007)

Kris is the dark horse biding his time in the wings. I can't imagine that any of the contestants are unaware of this. 

I do think however that Kris, too, would do fine going forward, even without the AI crown.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

QuickDrop said:


> Completely agree. I would compare it to the Melinda Doolittle - Jordan Sparks dynamic of a couple of seasons ago. Melinda/Adam were/are almost expected to blow the roof off the place while Jordan/Kris are content with being consistently good. If Kris manages to gives his "great" performance during an off week (by his standards) for Adam, I can easily see him squeaking through.


I like Kris too, but I'm still waiting for a McPhee "Over the rainbow" or Archuletta "Imagine" moment from him. Haven't really felt it yet. I just came across Jordin's _Idol_ performance of "She Works Hard For The Money", BTW. Forgot how enjoyable it was.  /steve


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## Henry (Nov 15, 2007)

Steve said:


> I like Kris too, but I'm still waiting for a McPhee "Over the rainbow" or Archuletta "Imagine" moment from him. Haven't really felt it yet. I just came across Jordin's _Idol_ performance of "She Works Hard For The Money", BTW. Forgot how enjoyable it was.  /steve


Totally agree with the McPhee moment, but I wasn't bowled over with Archuleta or Sparks. Kris better hurry and have his moment, or he'll wither on the vine. If the judges tire of waiting, they'll turn and do a _Lil_ number on him.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

HDG said:


> Totally agree with the McPhee moment, but I wasn't bowled over with Archuleta or Sparks. Kris better hurry and have his moment, or he'll wither on the vine. If the judges tire of waiting, they'll turn and do a _Lil_ number on him.


Sparks's "She Works Hard..." wasn't her "moment", IMHO. Just put it up there for comparison to Kris last week.

Her "moments" for me were "You'll Never Walk Alone", "I Who Have Nothing" and even... "This Is My Moment"! :lol:

Just my .02. /steve


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

According to VFTW (scroll down), Adam Lambert is "selling" pretty well, with 6 of his songs in the top 15 iTunes downloads. Not sure for what period of time that is. /steve


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## QuickDrop (Jul 21, 2007)

Steve said:


> I like Kris too, but I'm still waiting for a McPhee "Over the rainbow" or Archuletta "Imagine" moment from him. Haven't really felt it yet. I just came across Jordin's _Idol_ performance of "She Works Hard For The Money", BTW. Forgot how enjoyable it was.  /steve


Yeah, I'm not particularly a huge Kris fan; I can just see a possibility where he could win it. At this point, I don't think it matters who wins. None of them can really be viewed as also-rans, which could have been a real possibility for both Allison and Kris early on; and there's always been that theory that it's better not to win the show as it gives the singer more control over the direction of his/her career.

But what do I know, I was mostly disgusted by McPhee sexing-up "Over the Rainbow" and Archuletta intellectually neutering "Imagine," but it certainly worked for their fan bases.


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## Henry (Nov 15, 2007)

Steve said:


> Sparks's "She Works Hard..." wasn't her "moment", IMHO. Just put it up there for comparison to Kris last week.
> 
> Her "moments" for me were "You'll Never Walk Alone", "I Who Have Nothing" and even... "This Is My Moment"! :lol:
> 
> Just my .02. /steve


Sorry, Steve ... I should have been clearer ... I was _"never"_ bowled over by Archuleta or Sparks.


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## peak_reception (Feb 10, 2008)

Steve said:


> I like Kris too, but I'm still waiting for a McPhee "Over the rainbow" or Archuletta "Imagine" moment from him. Haven't really felt it yet. I just came across Jordin's _Idol_ performance of "She Works Hard For The Money", BTW. Forgot how enjoyable it was.  /steve


 Thanks for posting the Sparks link Steve. I've been reading a lot on here lately about Jordin and Melinda. That was a season I didn't watch much of so I had no recollection of either one. After viewing Jordin I watched a Melinda video for comparison (her "Sway" performance). I enjoyed both of them.

Melinda's musical personality is very strong and she was all over "Sway" in a good way. Jordin's style is more direct and she stays within herself and the song (without being karaoke) in the way I kept hoping Lil Rounds would and never could (or at least never did).

On the limited basis of those two viewings I'd say Melinda is the more musically adventurous, and artistic. On the other hand, Jordin's direct and centered delivery is enjoyable too, not to be underestimated. Viewing those two clips makes me think I should've watched more of that season if these two represented the level of talent that year.


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## peak_reception (Feb 10, 2008)

QuickDrop said:


> But what do I know, I was mostly disgusted by McPhee sexing-up "Over the Rainbow" and Archuletta intellectually neutering "Imagine," but it certainly worked for their fan bases.


 "Sexing up" Over The Rainbow? I suppose she did but she can't help it; she's sexy!  As for Archuletta, he may have neutered Imagine but I doubt it came from an intellectual angle. Probably more from his youth and innocence. He certainly gave it a sweet rendition. Maybe he should've done Over The Rainbow instead of Katharine?


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## peak_reception (Feb 10, 2008)

machavez00 said:


> Next week is Rat Pack Week


 Oh crap  Any mentor?


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## peak_reception (Feb 10, 2008)

QuickDrop said:


> Completely agree. I would compare it to the Melinda Doolittle - Jordan Sparks dynamic of a couple of seasons ago. Melinda/Adam were/are almost expected to blow the roof off the place while Jordan/Kris are content with being consistently good. If Kris manages to gives his "great" performance during an off week (by his standards) for Adam, I can easily see him squeaking through.


 Hard to imagine Adam having an off week (barring illness etc) but i suppose anything's possible. However, it's easy to imagine him not being quite mainstream enough to take 1st Place in the end.

Kris, on the other hand, has kind of flown under the radar for a lot of people so far. That's changing now and his performances will be more closely scrutinized. Will he hold up to the closer listen?


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## peak_reception (Feb 10, 2008)

HDG said:


> Totally agree with the McPhee moment, but I wasn't bowled over with Archuleta or Sparks. Kris better hurry and have his moment, or he'll wither on the vine. If the judges tire of waiting, they'll turn and do a _Lil_ number on him.


 I doubt that Kris will have any Adam/ Allison/ or even Danny moment. If he wins it will be by being Mr. Reliable and Mr. Likeable. Nothing wrong with either of those of course.


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## peak_reception (Feb 10, 2008)

machavez00 said:


> Adam=Clay in that they have voices that are more suited to musical theater.
> Allison will sing "Take it or Leave it" (original song?)as her contestant's choice for the Top Three.


 Interesting. I wonder if she wrote that all on her own? How many Allisons are singing?  A live version would probably be quite different. Even if someone does their own song Simon would probably still dismiss it as karaoke


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## peak_reception (Feb 10, 2008)

Ok, last post for tonight.


Steve said:


> I was happy to see the way they handled the Lil elimination right up front and in a classy manner.


 To me it looked like they were dispatching with her right away whether or not she had the lowest number of votes. It's no secret that they wanted her gone.


> I was surprised to see Anoop go and not Matt, but I think at this point it's probably a given that Adam's gonna win, so what difference does it make what order the others fall by the wayside?


 Me too but Anoop is going to tap into his fan base in India and be just fine. Adam is looking strong right now but Kris or Danny could win too. Allison and Matt probably not.


> what if Adam and Allison are the "blue state" picks, and Kris and Danny the "red state" picks?


 Hmmm, hadn't thought of it that way. That would explain Matt's lack of support too since he doesn't have a clear cut appeal to either shade of state.


> If that logic holds up, I would expect to see an Adam vs. Kris or Danny finale, even though I'd personally like to see an Adam vs. Allison finale.


 I agree on both counts.


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## QuickDrop (Jul 21, 2007)

peak_reception said:


> "Sexing up" Over The Rainbow? I suppose she did but she can't help it; she's sexy!  As for Archuletta, he may have neutered Imagine but I doubt it came from an intellectual angle. Probably more from his youth and innocence. He certainly gave it a sweet rendition. Maybe he should've done Over The Rainbow instead of Katharine?


If she didn't start it, McPhee certainly perfected the AI contestant using sex appeal to overcome her deficiencies. It's possible I'm confusing performances, but there something so Freudian about a woman in a low cut dress singing a song most people know from childhood while basically lying prone on stage. It's kinda funny that so many people lapped it up. Though really, good for her. I think she wanted to be an actress more than a singer anyway and she certainly acted her way into the final two.

As for Archuleta, his neutering of _Imagine_ definitely came from an intellectual angle. Randy Jackson actually called him on it the first time he performed it. _Imagine_, though, is a strange song in our culture. It's probably one of the few songs that have become a "standard" during the rock era of pop music and is widely beloved here in a country that is probably the most dogmatically Christian and capitalistic in the world, yet the whole point of the song is how great an atheistic communist utopia would be. For me, what made John Lennon solo career interesting was he married very personal or political lyrics to a 1950s era rock n' roll sound to show that musically "rocking out" didn't necessarily mean singing vapid lyrics. If he didn't like what the song said he should have found a song with lyrics he was more comfortable with. Last year, Brooke White, who adheres to the same religion as Archuleta and seemed to be personally very religious, said in interviews that there were songs she wanted to perform but after reading the lyrics realize she couldn't because they conflicted too much with her belief system, which I consider a much more honest approach than Archuleta ignoring the majority of _Imagine_.

Of course, his performance probably helped to sell Lennon's original to people who might not otherwise have bought it. And there is something very subversive in turning an anti-religion song into a hymn (I might be the first ever to call David Archuleta "subversive."), but my favorite subversion of _Imagine_ came from Paul McCartney's friend Elvis Costello, who in a song wrote, "Was it a millionaire who said 'imagine no possessions'?


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

QuickDrop said:


> If she didn't start it, McPhee certainly perfected the AI contestant using sex appeal to overcome her deficiencies.


 Well said. I never thought she was that good, and the fact that even Taylor was able to best her made watching that whole season's eliminations extremely frustrating.

OTOH, that performance probably helped her land her rich husband.  /steve


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## machavez00 (Nov 2, 2006)

iTunes versions are up
http://www.youtube.com/user/formerlyrusselites


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Thanks for the link. Enjoyed the "studio" versions of Allison's and Kris's performances even more than the TV performances.

Her diction on the studio cut of "Hot Stuff" was much clearer, and listening to it now, I realize that song was not really age-appropriate for Allison! Not that I'm a prude, but I wonder how comfortable her parents were with their 16-year old singing those lyrics? Great performance, tho, IMHO. Still not sure why a couple of the judges disliked the arrangement. /steve


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## Henry (Nov 15, 2007)

peak_reception said:


> I doubt that Kris will have any Adam/ Allison/ or even Danny moment. If he wins it will be by being Mr. Reliable and Mr. Likeable. Nothing wrong with either of those of course.


I don't think anyone can argue that Kris hasn't had his moment yet. If he ever has one and when, is anyone's guess. No, I don't think he has a chance at winning, but I'd like to think he gets some sort of lasting recognition out of it.


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## peak_reception (Feb 10, 2008)

QuickDrop said:


> If she didn't start it, McPhee certainly perfected the AI contestant using sex appeal to overcome her deficiencies. It's possible I'm confusing performances, but there something so Freudian about a woman in a low cut dress singing a song most people know from childhood while basically lying prone on stage.


 First of all, what deficiencies are you referring to? I'm not suggesting she didn't have them, rather am just interested in hearing what you deem them to be. 
Secondly, she was never lying down while singing the song. She was sitting on stage the first time she did it. Some opera singers manage to sing arias while lying down (for dramatic effect) but it is far from an ideal position to sing in and yields far from optimal results. Thirdly, if she was lying in a "prone" position as you say, that means lying face down which would complicate vocal projection even more 


> It's kinda funny that so many people lapped it up. Though really, good for her. I think she wanted to be an actress more than a singer anyway and she certainly acted her way into the final two.


 Sounds like you were never a fan  She had strenths and weaknesses like everyone else inside and outside the show.



> As for Archuleta, his neutering of _Imagine_ definitely came from an intellectual angle. Randy Jackson actually called him on it the first time he performed it.


 If he was neutering the song for moral reasons then it came from a moral angle. If he was neutering the song for political reasons then it came from a political angle. Either way I doubt it came from David. More likely from whomever he consulted on song choice etc. Maybe his father? He certainly had a reputation of being a, shall we say, keenly interested party. David was only, what, 17 years old at the time. Seems unlikely that his major goal was to sublimate, neutralize, or commoditize John Lennon's left-wing politics. I think a better word for David would be _guileless_ and there's certainly no crime in that for a teenager. 


> _Imagine_, though, is a strange song in our culture. It's probably one of the few songs that have become a "standard" during the rock era of pop music and is widely beloved here in a country that is probably the most dogmatically Christian and capitalistic in the world, yet the whole point of the song is how great an atheistic communist utopia would be. For me, what made John Lennon solo career interesting was he married very personal or political lyrics to a 1950s era rock n' roll sound to show that musically "rocking out" didn't necessarily mean singing vapid lyrics.


 Yes, most of us knew all that. It also has a soft, lyrical melody which is as easy on the ears as the politics are hard on the ears. 


> If he didn't like what the song said he should have found a song with lyrics he was more comfortable with.


 Most songs on A.I. are truncated anyway. Why not edit out the politics and focus on the beautiful melody and longing sentiment? Most people don't want to be beat over the head by politics in art anyway except those who share in the political mission (for, in this case, an atheistic, communist utopia). Needless to say, most American Idol viewers are not on that mission. 


> Last year, Brooke White, who adheres to the same religion as Archuleta and seemed to be personally very religious, said in interviews that there were songs she wanted to perform but after reading the lyrics realize she couldn't because they conflicted too much with her belief system, which I consider a much more honest approach than Archuleta ignoring the majority of _Imagine_.


 Ok, but as I say, lots of songs get trimmed for A.I. performance. The version David sang skipped over Lennon's political message, true, but we don't know that David is the one who crafted the _lite_ version. He sang Lennon (politics) lite but the music itself was not changed so far as I know. The convergence is that Arch gave it the same yearning, longing simplicity that Lennon did without the politics. If that's "intellectually neutering" the song then so be it, but we still don't know it was David's idea. 


> Of course, his performance probably helped to sell Lennon's original to people who might not otherwise have bought it. And there is something very subversive in turning an anti-religion song into a hymn (I might be the first ever to call David Archuleta "subversive.")...


 Ah ha! Yes, that was probably David A's real intention, to subvert and bring about the fall of World Capitalism!  What an evil genius David Archuletta was! :lol:


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## peak_reception (Feb 10, 2008)

HDG said:


> I don't think anyone can argue that Kris hasn't had his moment yet.


 That means that he's had his moment  (double negative pothole alert).


> If he ever has one and when, is anyone's guess. No, I don't think he has a chance at winning, but I'd like to think he gets some sort of lasting recognition out of it.


 I actually think he'll do very well, both in this competition and afterward. To me his voice and style will wear very well for repeat CD album listening. Adam, otoh, will not. His fans will want to see him "LIVE" to get the full Adam impact. Both will do just fine. Danny, not sure. He's not my cup 'o tea but he has his committed fans too.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

peak_reception said:


> That means that he's had his moment  (double negative pothole alert).


I disagree. I think HDG phrased it correctly. How would you say it?  /steve


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## peak_reception (Feb 10, 2008)

Steve said:


> I disagree. I think HDG phrased it correctly. How would you say it?  /steve


 If he meant that Kris has *not* had his moment yet (which his following sentence strongly suggests) then the sentence should read:

>>> I don't think anyone can argue that Kris _has had_ his moment yet.<<<

Otherwise he wrote the opposite of what he meant to write. It wasn't a big deal to me (I stuck out my tongue in a fun icon) but you too are mistaken in claiming that he phrased it correctly 

Geez. sorry i mentioned it


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

HDG said:


> [...] Kris hasn't had his moment yet.





peak_reception said:


> If he meant that Kris has *not* had his moment yet [...]


I must be missing something. :scratchin


> Geez. sorry i mentioned it


Don't be! What else we gonna talk about 'til Tuesday night? :lol: /steve


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

I think Kris has done well .. I think the girls like him as well. Next out will be either Matt or Allison. I don't know who Anoop's votes will go to, but it very well could be Kris .. although more likely it will be Adam or Danny


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## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

No one could argue that he didn't phrase it incorrectly.


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## peak_reception (Feb 10, 2008)

BattleScott said:


> No one could argue that he didn't phrase it incorrectly.


 Exactly! :lol:


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## QuickDrop (Jul 21, 2007)

peak_reception said:


> First of all, what deficiencies are you referring to? I'm not suggesting she didn't have them, rather am just interested in hearing what you deem them to be.


I meant I didn't think she was very good and used her looks to overcome it. That's a matter of taste. At least one other person here has agreed with me. You yourself said she had strengths and weaknesses, which you didn't think needed to be explained either.



peak_reception said:


> Secondly, she was never lying down while singing the song. She was sitting on stage the first time she did it. Some opera singers manage to sing arias while lying down (for dramatic effect) but it is far from an ideal position to sing in and yields far from optimal results. Thirdly, if she was lying in a "prone" position as you say, that means lying face down which would complicate vocal projection even more


As I said in my original post, I couldn't quite remember the original performance and admittedly I purposely used some hyperbole. You are right about my misuse of the word prone in it's most correct usage. I should have said something like "supine." Nothing you said though really contradicts why I personally disliked the performance and thought it was overrated. She sang a song most people know from childhood from what could be described as a sexually submissive position. And as I said, good for her for playing the audience like that. (In case you missed it, I'm actually giving McPhee some credit for her intellect.)



peak_reception said:


> If he was neutering the song for moral reasons then it came from a moral angle. If he was neutering the song for political reasons then it came from a political angle. Either way I doubt it came from David. More likely from whomever he consulted on song choice etc. Maybe his father? He certainly had a reputation of being a, shall we say, keenly interested party. David was only, what, 17 years old at the time. Seems unlikely that his major goal was to sublimate, neutralize, or commoditize John Lennon's left-wing politics. I think a better word for David would be _guileless_ and there's certainly no crime in that for a teenager.


Um, I'm not even sure why you're arguing this point. So it would have been okay if I had wrote that Archuleta had morally or politically neutered the song, but all heck breaks loose because I wrote "intellectually neutered." Personally, I've always thought moral and political arguments were at least in part intellectual arguments. As I said, Randy Jackson did originally question why Archuleta sang the song the way he did. What I didn't say was Archuleta said something like he sang his favorite part. I think that response showed a decent amount of guile, as he didn't want to create any controversy by saying he strongly disagreed with most of the other lyrics of a song he chose to sing. I agree with you that David Archuleta's father probably tailored the song for him for the greatest affect.



peak_reception said:


> Yes, most of us knew all that. It also has a soft, lyrical melody which is as easy on the ears as the politics are hard on the ears.


Actually, this is what I was probably most wrong about in my post. My description of Lennon's music better applied to songs like _Crippled Inside_, _I Found Out_, and _Well, Well, Well_. Songs that featured Lennon's personal and/or political feelings, but also had a sort of the 1950s backbeat. (Unlike his writing partner in The Beatles, Lennon always seemed more attracted to the basics of the rock n' roll sound than the experimental side, which is why I find his song _How Can You Sleep_ unintentionally hilarious, though still a pretty entertaining song all in all.) _Imagine_ is pretty much just an earnest ballad. I simplified my critique because I thought it was sort of dumb to write all that out. That didn't work out very well for me.



peak_reception said:


> Most songs on A.I. are truncated anyway. Why not edit out the politics and focus on the beautiful melody and longing sentiment? Most people don't want to be beat over the head by politics in art anyway except those who share in the political mission (for, in this case, an atheistic, communist utopia). Needless to say, most American Idol viewers are not on that mission.


Several times each year, I hear singers sing songs that express their religious faith/worldview . A lot of people can feel that qualifies as getting "beat over the head" too, especially since it's almost always a "Christian" worldview. Personally, I have no problem with that. I believe the contestants should express themselves however they wish. (And as Simon once pointed out, sometimes they do it rather cleverly too.) Along these lines, my only problem was once during the "Give Back Show" last year the producers had the contestants do a group medley which was explicitly Christian in nature, which since it represented the show itself and not individual contestants I thought was very offensive to people of other religions/points of view.



peak_reception said:


> The version David sang skipped over Lennon's political message, true, but we don't know that David is the one who crafted the _lite_ version. He sang Lennon (politics) lite but the music itself was not changed so far as I know. The convergence is that Arch gave it the same yearning, longing simplicity that Lennon did without the politics. If that's "intellectually neutering" the song then so be it, but we still don't know it was David's idea.
> 
> Ah ha! Yes, that was probably David A's real intention, to subvert and bring about the fall of World Capitalism!  What an evil genius David Archuletta was! :lol:


I was asked why I didn't like Archuleta's performance and I gave the reason for my opinion. That's All. The Archuleta subversiveness comment was obviously a joke (Is there a person who comes across as less subversive than David Archuleta?), of which you apparently completely missed the point. I said, once again jokingly, that Archuleta was intentionally subverting Lennon's atheistic song into basically a Christian hymn, so it's John Lennon's worldview he's subverting not "World Capitalism," which seems to be doing a pretty decent job of subverting itself at the moment. Since you didn't bring it up, I guess you also missed the joke I made about the hypocrisy of Lennon's leftist politics.


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## QuickDrop (Jul 21, 2007)

Steve said:


> Her diction on the studio cut of "Hot Stuff" was much clearer, and listening to it now, I realize that song was not really age-appropriate for Allison! Not that I'm a prude, but I wonder how comfortable her parents were with their 16-year old singing those lyrics? Great performance, tho, IMHO. Still not sure why a couple of the judges disliked the arrangement. /steve


It's not quite the same thing (though eras and what is considered "sexually suggestive" have certainly changed in 40 years), but go back and listen to The Box Tops's _The Letter_ from the mid 60s and realize, with that voice, Alex Chilton was also only 16 when he sang that song. I think that's why you have more critics/journalists crazy for Allison than she seems to have among the general public. Her voice has "rock n' roll" written all over it. If she was a bit taller, blond, and wore a push-up bra, she would be giving Adam a real run for his money.

Happily, A.I. probably won't last more than five more years, so even if the producers get their grubby hands on her she'll still have a couple decades in her "youth" to sing the kind of music she's meant to sing.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

I suspect that Danny, Adam, and Allison will be the final 3.

As for David A's performance....solid....if you went by what the audience reaction was. He still seems to have a strong following. I was told by my "insider" contact that his music sells quite well, in fact, better than some previous "winners" from years past.


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

Quite a lot of sturm und drang over a popularity contest...


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## Henry (Nov 15, 2007)

I like my syntax better ... I can understand it, and so can you guys. 

We must be getting bored waiting for Tuesday.


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## QuickDrop (Jul 21, 2007)

Drew2k said:


> Quite a lot of sturm und drang over a popularity contest...


Now, honestly, what would you rather read here: arguments concerning Katharine McPhee's cleavage and David Archuleta's subversiveness or arguments concerning the merits of universal health care and same sex marriage?


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## Henry (Nov 15, 2007)

QuickDrop said:


> Now, honestly, what would you rather read here: arguments concerning Katharine McPhee's cleavage and David Archuleta's subversiveness or arguments concerning the merits of universal health care and same sex marriage?


Can't we just limit it to Katharine McPhee's cleavage ? :eek2:


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## peak_reception (Feb 10, 2008)

I was wondering when the other shoe was going to QuickDrop 


QuickDrop said:


> I meant I didn't think she was very good and used her looks to overcome it. That's a matter of taste. At least one other person here has agreed with me. You yourself said she had strengths and weaknesses, which you didn't think needed to be explained either.


 No one asked me what I thought were K. McP.'s strengths and/or weaknesses. I asked you because I was genuinely interested. It's no insult to be asked why you hold a positive or negative opinion about something, esp. when it's directly related to the topic at hand, i.e. American Idol and its contestants.



> As I said in my original post, I couldn't quite remember the original performance and admittedly I purposely used some hyperbole. You are right about my misuse of the word prone in it's most correct usage. I should have said something like "supine." Nothing you said though really contradicts why I personally disliked the performance and thought it was overrated.


 That's true. The only thing that jumped out as potentially negative is that you didn't like her cleavage and sexuality. But then you added that it didn't really bother you and could even be viewed as a positive. So I was left wondering what you didn't like musically, that's all.



> She sang a song most people know from childhood from what could be described as a sexually submissive position. And as I said, good for her for playing the audience like that. (In case you missed it, I'm actually giving McPhee some credit for her intellect.)


 Not sure about the "submissive" part. Womens' sexuality can be as powerful (or dominant) as mens' in many cases. Having said that, I agree that it was sensually delivered.



> Um, I'm not even sure why you're arguing this point. So it would have been okay if I had wrote that Archuleta had morally or politically neutered the song, but all heck breaks loose because I wrote "intellectually neutered."


 Ok, truth be told, your post looked _intellectually pretentious_ and vague to me when I read it so I decided to press you on a couple of points to see if you were for real or perhaps more of a poser. The only part you failed  (because you bailed) was when asked what you disliked musically about K. McPhee's performances. 


> Several times each year, I hear singers sing songs that express their religious faith/worldview . A lot of people can feel that qualifies as getting "beat over the head" too, especially since it's almost always a "Christian" worldview. Personally, I have no problem with that. I believe the contestants should express themselves however they wish. (And as Simon once pointed out, sometimes they do it rather cleverly too.) Along these lines, my only problem was once during the "Give Back Show" last year the producers had the contestants do a group medley which was explicitly Christian in nature, which since it represented the show itself and not individual contestants I thought was very offensive to people of other religions/points of view.


 I must've missed that group song. Do you remember what it was? Not sure why a Christian song would necessarily offend people of other religions or no religion though? But you make a valid point about the show endorsing any particular faith. I tend to pay less attention to lyrics than most people so it's kind of a non-issue for me. For me the music is paramount. 


> I was asked why I didn't like Archuleta's performance and I gave the reason for my opinion. That's All. The Archuleta subversiveness comment was obviously a joke (Is there a person who comes across as less subversive than David Archuleta?), of which you apparently completely missed the point.


 No, I got the joke. In fact, thought it fun enough to pile on with my last "Ah ha..." By that time I had stopped giving you a hard time.


> Since you didn't bring it up, I guess you also missed the joke I made about the hypocrisy of Lennon's leftist politics.


Nope, got that one too, the irony.

My counter-post probably came across as more aggressive than I was feeling. I figured you could take it so I didn't cushion my questioning with the usual bulletin board niceties. You can give me a hard time about some post of mine some time and then we'll be even  Just don't come back asking me what I think are K. McPhee's musical strengths and weaknesses without giving your opinion first.


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## Henry (Nov 15, 2007)

C'mon Tuesday! :dozey:


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## peak_reception (Feb 10, 2008)

HDG said:


> C'mon Tuesday! :dozey:


If you've got something more entertaining, post it! :grin:


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## QuickDrop (Jul 21, 2007)

*peak_reception*:

I'm gonna keep this quick because I think we've both now expressed our point of views to the point where we understand the other sufficiently.

First, I want you to know I didn't find, or thought you intended, your responses to me to be aggressive. I gave an opinion and you had every right to argue with it. In fact, I'm happy that you did. I'm not someone who thinks that just because a topic can be described as "subjective" it means I can completely hide behind a "Well, that just my opinion so you can't argue with it" approach. At some point, it does boil down to personal taste but we should at least try to make someone else see our point of view. That's what open forums should be all about. And otherwise, we would end up content in our insularity and never learn anything.

Also, if I somehow seemed aggressive in my most recent response to you, I apologize. You pretty much gave a line by line response to my post and, our of respect, I thought you deserved the same. I also do attempt to throw in the jokes to show that I'm not taking this more seriously than I should.

As for McPhee, I just didn't think over all she was up to snuff, vocally or as a performer. Some on this board seemed to already agree with me on this, so I assumed people just accepted the negative criticisms of her as common (as would be the case with any contestant on the show who has received any notoriety from the program.) I also believe it's widely accepted that Daughtry getting voted off in lieu of McPhee was one of the more shocking moments in the show's history. Even she seemed stunned by it.

The one thing I do want to make clear is that like you I agree that a woman's sexuality can be as strong as a man's. I could be completely wrong, but McPhee seemed to be the first female contestant who successfully used sex appeal to make her mark on the show in a real way. As for the _Over the Rainbow_ performance, if you don't like the words passive or submissive, let's just say I felt she expressed her sexuality in a "nurturing" manner. (I originally used the word "Freudian" for a reason.) If you want to go further into the idea that passive sexually in women is actually a strength, there are numerous articles and books by "pro sex feminists," headed that ever annoying contrarian Camille Paglia, who will tell you that strippers and porn stars are the true feminist icons of the day. I personally believe that topic is about as complicated and nuanced as discussing the merits of universal health care and would be better left as it is.

If there is anything you really believe I need to say further on this specific topic, let me know and I'll try my best to be clearer. Otherwise, I'll save my breath for another argument I'll surely get myself involved in. (How about Adam Lambert: too gay or not gay enough?)


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## QuickDrop (Jul 21, 2007)

peak_reception said:


> I must've missed that group song. Do you remember what it was? Not sure why a Christian song would necessarily offend people of other religions or no religion though? But you make a valid point about the show endorsing any particular faith. I tend to pay less attention to lyrics than most people so it's kind of a non-issue for me. For me the music is paramount.


Just a quick addition, under most conceivable conditions, I don't believe a contestant on the show singing a song of their faith/beliefs (whatever they may be) should be particularly offensive to people of other faiths or beliefs. The only time it usually comes across as offensive is when it's obviously and crassly being used to garner votes (See the "God Bless the USA" incident) and then it should be more offensive to those who hold those values than not.

It was only the program itself giving special credence to Christianity on the Give Back show, which should have been about total inclusiveness, that bothered me.


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## QuickDrop (Jul 21, 2007)

peak_reception said:


> If you've got something more entertaining, post it! :grin:


Ah, everyone knows we are the only two that have anything entertaining to say. They're just jealous. 

(That should get me in no trouble; no trouble at all.)


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## Henry (Nov 15, 2007)

peak_reception said:


> If you've got something more entertaining, post it! :grin:


Nah, you and Quick are doing fine. I'll just wait till Tueday and discuss the boring stuff on Wednesday morning _(Taylor Hicks is performing :nono2._

In the mean time, y'all keep it coming. See ya then!


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## peak_reception (Feb 10, 2008)

QuickDrop said:


> It's not quite the same thing (though eras and what is considered "sexually suggestive" have certainly changed in 40 years), but go back and listen to The Box Tops's _The Letter_ from the mid 60s and realize, with that voice, Alex Chilton was also only 16 when he sang that song. I think that's why you have more critics/journalists crazy for Allison than she seems to have among the general public. Her voice has "rock n' roll" written all over it. *If she was a bit taller, blond, and wore a push-up bra, she would be giving Adam a real run for his money.*


 Kellie Pickler springs immediately to mind! Taller, blond, push-up bra, _and thinner_ too. Not to beat a dead horse :beatdeadhorse: but Kellie Pickler was so bad on A.I. a couple of weeks ago that i was embarrassed for her. Live performance can expose a lot of musical shortcomings.


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## peak_reception (Feb 10, 2008)

HDG said:


> Can't we just limit it to Katharine McPhee's cleavage ? :eek2:


 Well, she did finally admit that she paid for it (them)


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## peak_reception (Feb 10, 2008)

QuickDrop said:


> *peak_reception*:
> I'm gonna keep this quick because I think we've both now expressed our point of views to the point where we understand the other sufficiently.


 I agree.



> First, I want you to know I didn't find, or thought you intended, your responses to me to be aggressive. I gave an opinion and you had every right to argue with it. In fact, I'm happy that you did. I'm not someone who thinks that just because a topic can be described as "subjective" it means I can completely hide behind a "Well, that just my opinion so you can't argue with it" approach. At some point, it does boil down to personal taste but we should at least try to make someone else see our point of view. That's what open forums should be all about. And otherwise, we would end up content in our insularity and never learn anything.


 Agreed again except that even in art there are limits to subjectivity. For example, the Kellie Pickler performance on A.I. I recently mentioned. Anyone with a keyboard and access to dbstalk could wander in here and proclaim her to be an immensely talented musician on the basis of that show (thank goodness nobody did). Would that opinion be just as valid as any other? Even if he (most likely a he) just limited his praise to saying how much he personally enjoyed it I would think the same as you wrote before; Tall, blond, push-up bra, plus thin and likeable; nothing musical involved.

Of course the hypothetical poster I'm talking about is entitled to his opinion but it would have no musical merit. I got into trouble here before saying something like this and probably will again :sure: because it sounds arrogant. Not where I'm coming from. I agree that musical _taste_ is subjective, yes, but that evaluation of musical performance is surprisingly objective. Notes are hit or they are missed. Voices are bull-bodied or they are thin. Phrasing is fluid or clumsy. Interpretation is forced or natural. The list goes on and on. Not a cut and dry checklist for sure but consisting of objective standards in music which are met or not met. There is a lot which is subjective too, thank goodness. I'm not arguing that music and art is equivalent to mathematics and engineering in objective nature. 


> Also, if I somehow seemed aggressive in my most recent response to you, I apologize. You pretty much gave a line by line response to my post and, our of respect, I thought you deserved the same.


 No problem at all. I enjoy a good give and take. 


> As for McPhee, I just didn't think over all she was up to snuff, vocally or as a performer. Some on this board seemed to already agree with me on this, so I assumed people just accepted the negative criticisms of her as common (as would be the case with any contestant on the show who has received any notoriety from the program.) I also believe it's widely accepted that Daughtry getting voted off in lieu of McPhee was one of the more shocking moments in the show's history. Even she seemed stunned by it.


 We get into a bit of apples and oranges here. Daughtry is a rocker, McPhee is classically trained. More A.I. viewers are probably attuned to rock than classical so in that sense it probably was quite a surprise. In the context of American Idol (broadly based popular music) she probably should've gone home before Daughtry since she was somewhat out of her element in a lot of the musical "themes" (thank goodness there was no "Rap" night for her sake :lol. But I won't take too much criticism of her lying down (ha ha, pun intended  ).



> The one thing I do want to make clear is that like you I agree that a woman's sexuality can be as strong as a man's. I could be completely wrong, but McPhee seemed to be the first female contestant who successfully used sex appeal to make her mark on the show in a real way. As for the _Over the Rainbow_ performance, if you don't like the words passive or submissive, let's just say I felt she expressed her sexuality in a "nurturing" manner. (I originally used the word "Freudian" for a reason.) If you want to go further into the idea that passive sexually in women is actually a strength, there are numerous articles and books by "pro sex feminists," headed that ever annoying contrarian Camille Paglia, who will tell you that strippers and porn stars are the true feminist icons of the day. I personally believe that topic is about as complicated and nuanced as discussing the merits of universal health care and would be better left as it is.


 I think the moderators will lock the thread if we start talking about Camille Paglia 



> If there is anything you really believe I need to say further on this specific topic, let me know and I'll try my best to be clearer. Otherwise, I'll save my breath for another argument I'll surely get myself involved in. (How about Adam Lambert: too gay or not gay enough?)


 Nah, I think we pretty well covered things. I appreciate the exchange. I respect where you're coming from though initially I did have reservations about your academic jargon. My b.s. detector alerted while reading your post #82, particularly on words such as "subtextual" which to me reflect either pretention or academia. The reason I didn't give you a hard time on that one is because on closer inspection I couldn't find fault with the way you were using it to analyze the point you were making. So the B.S. alert turned out to be a false alarm  and I held off. But then later on you started in on Katharine McPhee, including some disparaging descriptions, and that my friend was going too far  so I decided to push back a bit and see where it led to. And now we're friends so I'm glad I did. :icon_hug: You must be in academia though, right?


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## QuickDrop (Jul 21, 2007)

peak_reception said:


> We get into a bit of apples and oranges here. Daughtry is a rocker, McPhee is classically trained. More A.I. viewers are probably attuned to rock than classical so in that sense it probably was quite a surprise. In the context of American Idol (broadly based popular music) she probably should've gone home before Daughtry since she was somewhat out of her element in a lot of the musical "themes" (thank goodness there was no "Rap" night for her sake :lol. But I won't take too much criticism of her lying down (ha ha, pun intended  ).


What's funny is I don't particularly like Daughtry either. (I wonder whether there is anyone from that year's cast I did like.) When it comes to rock n' roll, I'm a traditionalist. I prefer a decent rhythm section over third rate Pearl Jam imitators wailing over an electric guitar. I might be different from others here in that I do view the competition more as a game show. My own taste in music doesn't necessarily matter as long as the contestant can convincingly "sell" what s/he is doing.



peak_reception said:


> I respect where you're coming from though initially I did have reservations about your academic jargon. My b.s. detector alerted while reading your post #82, particularly on words such as "subtextual" which to me reflect either pretention or academia. The reason I didn't give you a hard time on that one is because on closer inspection I couldn't find fault with the way you were using it to analyze the point you were making. So the B.S. alert turned out to be a false alarm  and I held off. But then later on you started in on Katharine McPhee, including some disparaging descriptions, and that my friend was going too far  so I decided to push back a bit and see where it led to. And now we're friends so I'm glad I did. :icon_hug: You must be in academia though, right?


We part company somewhat here. I don't consider "subtext" to raise to the level of academic jargon. It's like metaphor and allegory, basic High School English stuff that I assume most people have a handle on. I do agree that it's a mistake to judge an artist solely on "subtext," but when anyone covers a song the way they personally interpret it matters a lot. With _Black or White_, Adam gave a passionate twist to what I always considered a rather limp pop song and it's hard not to think it was because of how he personally related to the song. At the same time, Paula Abdul tears during _If I Can't Have You_ was certainly due to the "subtext" that the song was being performed by a gay man whose relationships don't have the same legal protections as a straight man's would. Clearly, the context is different and that changes/deepens the meaning of the song without changing the actual text of the lyrics. With that said, I personally didn't find Lambert's performance as good because, to me, the expression of emotion came across as too actorly.

And on a side note, the fact that I brought up Camille Paglia at all sort of makes me wish I could lock this thread.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Too bad music isn't subjective .. If it were we could all have our own opinions and think that we were right


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## machavez00 (Nov 2, 2006)

peak_reception said:


> Kellie Pickler springs immediately to mind! Taller, blond, push-up bra, _and thinner_ too. Not to beat a dead horse :beatdeadhorse: but Kellie Pickler was so bad on A.I. a couple of weeks ago that i was embarrassed for her. Live performance can expose a lot of musical shortcomings.


http://www.cmt.com/videos/kellie-pickler/189298/i-wonder-2007-cma-awards-show-performance.jhtml

Much better live performance by Kellie.


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## Henry (Nov 15, 2007)

peak_reception said:


> Well, she did finally admit that she paid for it (them)


And that's bad because...?


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## Henry (Nov 15, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> *Too bad music isn't subjective* .. If it were we could all have our own opinions and think that we were right


... and a tone not heard is music.


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## peak_reception (Feb 10, 2008)

QuickDrop said:


> We part company somewhat here. I don't consider "subtext" to raise to the level of academic jargon. It's like metaphor and allegory, basic High School English stuff that I assume most people have a handle on.


 A fairly basic construct, yes, but one that non-academics seldom use. I just plugged in a search for "subtextually" (without the quotes) in the dbstalk archives. Exactly one post came up; Your's. "Deconstructionism" and "postmodern" would be two more examples of jargon rarely used by people outside of academia. You obviously put educated thought into what you write and it shows. Nothing wrong with that. 


> I do agree that it's a mistake to judge an artist solely on "subtext," but when anyone covers a song the way they personally interpret it matters a lot. With _Black or White_, Adam gave a passionate twist to what I always considered a rather limp pop song and it's hard not to think it was because of how he personally related to the song. At the same time, Paula Abdul tears during _If I Can't Have You_ was certainly due to the "subtext" that the song was being performed by a gay man whose relationships don't have the same legal protections as a straight man's would.


 Hmmm, that hadn't even occurred to me. She could've just been touched by the universal theme of unrequited love, and Adam's convincing (to her) emotional projection of that theme. Or maybe it was just as you say....


> With that said, I personally didn't find Lambert's performance as good because, to me, the expression of emotion came across as too actorly.


But consistent with his other performances which are rich in drama (some would say melodrama). Adam is never boring (at least to me).


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## peak_reception (Feb 10, 2008)

HDG said:


> And that's bad because...?


 Not bad, but she did deny buying them for quite awhile IIRC. 

Now I need to go listen to the Kellie Pickler live performance machavez linked to see if I need to issue any more apologies today. :grin:


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## peak_reception (Feb 10, 2008)

machavez00 said:


> http://www.cmt.com/videos/kellie-pickler/189298/i-wonder-2007-cma-awards-show-performance.jhtml
> 
> Much better live performance by Kellie.


 Strange, the first time I clicked on the link it showed the studio version. 2nd time it showed the CMT live performance.

Follow-up: I'm happy to say that watching that video did raise my estimation of Kellie's music-making somewhat. She obviously put so much of herself into that song and felt every note/word of it to the core of her being. When someone does that it lets the audience feel every ounce of it too. Very heart-touching. I'm also glad for her that she's making a success for herself in the business. She seems like a genuinely nice, down-to-earth, beautiful person.

I do stand by what I said about her idol performance being just dreadful though. Throwing in the push-up bra etc. put-downs was unnecessary. Maybe she just had a bad night or wasn't feeling well or what have you. A more likely explanation though is that the Idol song she attempted is a lot more difficult to sing than the one she did at the CMT awards ceremony and that her musical limitations were painfully exposed.


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## QuickDrop (Jul 21, 2007)

peak_reception said:


> A fairly basic construct, yes, but one that non-academics seldom use. I just plugged in a search for "subtextually" (without the quotes) in the dbstalk archives. Exactly one post came up; Your's. "Deconstructionism" and "postmodern" would be two more examples of jargon rarely used by people outside of academia. You obviously put educated thought into what you write and it shows. Nothing wrong with that.
> 
> Hmmm, that hadn't even occurred to me. She could've just been touched by the universal theme of unrequited love, and Adam's convincing (to her) emotional projection of that theme. Or maybe it was just as you say.... But consistent with his other performances which are rich in drama (some would say melodrama). Adam is never boring (at least to me).


If you plug in "subtext" into the DBSTalk search, you get 12 posts, only two of which belong to me or you. Plug "subtext," "deconstruction," or "postmodernism," into Google and you get million upon million of hits. All three words have entered the popular lexicon. These days more people use "deconstructing," than have heard of Derrida. It's nice that you think it makes me sound educated, but objectively I don't think it shows me to be any smarter than anyone else on this board.

I'll try to get to some of the Adam stuff later. It did strike me that my criticism of his most recent performance is somewhat similar to my criticism of McPhee's _Over the Rainbow_. The machinery of both was too obvious for me for them to have an emotional effect.

As I've said elsewhere, whatever possible career he might or might not have outside the show, Adam has been by far the best contestant on A.I. this year. I don't think it's close. That doesn't necessarily mean I'll buy his album or he'll sell the most records among this years contestants, but no one has hit it out of the ballpark as often as him. I do wish he hadn't started so early with the crooning to middle age women ballads. I want to see one more _I Can't Get No Satisfaction/Black or White_ performance before he goes. Alas, this week's topic doesn't give me much hope. Of course, they're plenty of Jazz standards that have loads of sexual subtext (There's that word again.) I would love to see Adam turn something by Cole Porter into a New York Dolls song.


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## peak_reception (Feb 10, 2008)

QuickDrop said:


> If you plug in "subtext" into the DBSTalk search, you get 12 posts, only two of which belong to me or you.


 Your word form was subtextually, not subtext. i noted that your use of words and language suggested (at least to me) an academic background.


> Plug "subtext," "deconstruction," or "postmodernism," into Google and you get million upon million of hits.


 Plug just about any word into Google and you'll get a ton of hits. 


> It's nice that you think it makes me sound educated, but objectively I don't think it shows me to be any smarter than anyone else on this board.


 I didn't say it made you sound smarter, I said (originally) it made you sound pretentious or academic. Then I settled on academic. Saying that you put "educated thought" into your posts was an even nicer way of saying that you sound academic occasionally. 


> As I've said elsewhere, whatever possible career he might or might not have outside the show, Adam has been by far the best contestant on A.I. this year. I don't think it's close.


 To me that depends on what you mean by "best." He's been the most consistent, in my view, and that's a good thing. He's also very experienced on stage and can do amazing things with his voice. Allison is also experienced on stage but not in age. She can also do amazing things with her voice. She's not as consistent as Adam week in and week out but her raw musical talent is, for me, best in show.


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## QuickDrop (Jul 21, 2007)

peak_reception said:


> To me that depends on what you mean by "best." He's been the most consistent, in my view, and that's a good thing. He's also very experienced on stage and can do amazing things with his voice. Allison is also experienced on stage but not in age. She can also do amazing things with her voice. She's not as consistent as Adam week in and week out but her raw musical talent is, for me, best in show.


I pretty much agree with everything you wrote. I think Allison has the talent best suited for a long term career, but she hasn't had the kind of show stopping moments on the program that Adam has had. It's almost like talking about what college basketball or football players will succeed professionally. Even though they're technically the same games, some skill sets translate better than others.

With Adam, I've begun wondering whether we are almost seeing a Carly Smithson in reverse situation. Ignoring her past major label history, that woman could sing. However, the only time, for me, that that really came through was during the group sing alongs on Wednesdays where her voice towered over everyone else. During her actual performances, in spite of all that talent, she rarely seemed to be able to connect with either the song or the audience. She just didn't have that "it" quality that make people stars. Adam does amazing on the show, but maybe the reason he hasn't made it before now is that outside the confines of a talent competition he doesn't have that "it" quality either.


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## peak_reception (Feb 10, 2008)

QuickDrop said:


> I pretty much agree with everything you wrote. I think Allison has the talent best suited for a long term career, but she hasn't had the kind of show stopping moments on the program that Adam has had.


 Agreed, though for me "I Can't Make You Love Me" was just beautiful and with power in reserve still.


> It's almost like talking about what college basketball or football players will succeed professionally. Even though they're technically the same games, some skill sets translate better than others.


 An interesting analogy. Will Matthew Stafford or Mark Sanchez make a bigger mark (no pun intended) in the NFL? Impossible to say.


> With Adam, I've begun wondering whether we are almost seeing a Carly Smithson in reverse situation.


 That could be. I don't know if Adam has the "It" quality or not. He sure seems to on stage in this competition. I liked Carly best of all last year but she did have trouble connecting to the public. Maybe the same problem for Allison? Carly and Michael Johns were probably also hampered by the fact that they were a little too Irish/Australian to win an American contest. Allison may be a little too Central American? Just as an additional note about Allison, it also strikes me oddly when people talk about her not being likeable, etc. Personally I think she's adorable. 

Well, it's almost time for Rat Pack night. Let's hope there are some great performances tonight, no matter from whom.


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