# Question on 721, new software and 77 UNK



## mnjclark (Apr 15, 2004)

Hello all. I'm a newbie to this forum so forgive me if I sin - just politely tell me... 

I've spent some time searching through the posts here and haven't found a real concise answer to what I'm looking for - so I'll explain the problem and see what you all say.

Model 721 Software version L119.

This past weekend we were gone and had mother in law house sitting. She said she couldn't watch TV all weekend because it kept saying something about downloading. She's not real technical and I just figured she was messing with the buttons or something and couldn't figure out how to make it work. She was here from 10am on Sat till 2pm on Sun (28 hours). She said it had that message the whole time. When we got home 7pm on Sunday it was working fine.

Tuesday evening I started noticing that quite frequently while the device is recording (preset timers) and I'm watching either what it's recording or something else (doesn't seem to matter) it will suddenly go blank. I can push the guide button and get the guide listing. It always says I'm on channel zero when this happens. If I try to change the channel either by arrowing to the listing then pressing select, arrowing up or down on the blank screen, or just pressing in the number of the channel I want it will frequently say 77 Unknown. I can usually get it to come back by pressing the power button off then back on from the remote, but it'll only work for 3-5 minutes then I have to do it over again. Once the recording is done it works fine. And, remarkedly, the show that I was recording recorded just fine! I called up dish tech support and they just ran me through pulling the smart card, etc, but that hasn't seemed to help.

So, what gives? Did this new software load that I'm pretty sure I got over the past weekend mess something up? I had NEVER had this problem before this week. Any suggestions welcome - workarounds, fixes, etc.

Thanks!


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Yep its likely the software Try pulling the card, wait a few minutes and reinsert. then once it comes back up pull the power plug from the wall. 

if a hard reset doesnt fix it call dish and complain. hope you have the warranty.... :nono2:


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## mnjclark (Apr 15, 2004)

Ok, but there's nothing wrong with the hardware (assumption since the problem just started happening after the software upgrade) so why would I need the warranty.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Try and report back here how it goes. I wish you luck and am honestly interested if they wil replace it at N/C


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## mnjclark (Apr 15, 2004)

Ok. Been on and off the phone with Dish twice this morning. Boy it sure matters who you get on the phone as to what they know/don't know!!

First person just had me do the hard reset..... waste of time.

Set two timers to fire at the same time and it started off fine then one stopped on it's own after 39 seconds. The other kept going. Switched to the channel of the one that had stopped and after a few minutes it went blank on me. Guide said I was on channel 0 again. Try to change channel and get 77 UKN. Tried to restart the timer and it thinks it's already going even though it's not listed in the PVR view as recording.

Second person - "This is a known problem with the 721". WHAT??!!! Why has it taken me several phone calls and several days to get someone on the other end of the line that knows this? "I'm sorry ma'am. This is a known problem. They should have known." What can be done??.... "Nothing. Our engineering department is working on a fix." My device is not even a year old - it's still under warranty! "Yes, it's still under warranty, but we do not honor the warranty for known issues since the replacement would likely have the same issue. Additionally, it's not a hardware problem, it's a software problem." So what do I do? "Just wait for the fix. Or you can try exchanging it for a new model at the store you bought it from."

Yeah right.... I've been a dish customer for 8 years... Through thick and thin I've stuck with them. This time it's just been pushed too far. Direct TV here I come.... Aaaah! And I'm pissed to hear myself say that. 

++++

Ok, resolved to make the change... I have to. So, I also have Starband network connectivity (used to be through Dish). I would like to keep that. So to go to direct I'd just need a new dish since Direct and Dish obviously point at different satellites.... right?


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Yeah. but first e mail [email protected] and tell them off your problem and that your a poster here They might just find a way to help you but do understand the replacement box a refurb may have the same or other issues

BTW this is about what I expected, sorry..


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## mnjclark (Apr 15, 2004)

Update: E-mailed CEO, E-mailed tech support... about 4 or 5 hours later got a call back from "the executive offices technical support" (whatever that means) and they WILL be sending me a replacement 721.

We'll give it a go and see how it works... I'll update again late next week.


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## Paul1951 (Oct 22, 2002)

I have been experiencing the same problems with my 721. Have not contacted anyone on this as I suspected a software problem. Awaiting a software upgrade as that has usually fixed past problems.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

I have noticed that 77 Unknown Recording on the title bar when a DVR program first starts (if you tell it to start a minute early) then it will show the correct show title when it gets into the time frame of the actual show.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Perhaps this explains our occasional short recordings, has anyone expermented creating a manual timer or minute or so off and does it help?


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## mnjclark (Apr 15, 2004)

Update: I got the new 721 - actually I guess I should say refurbished replacement. It's all hooked up and I loaded it up with things to record. Seems to be doing fine so far and I've experienced none of the blank screens, switching to channel zero, or 77 UKN issues.

I'm gonna give it a while before returning the other one. But it's looking hopeful......


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## mnjclark (Apr 15, 2004)

Oh and Bob, I tried recording in several different ways when I was having the problem. I even tried just pusing the record button mid way through a show. It would still switch to channel zero after a few minutes then need the power reset to be able to change channels (or get 77 UKN).


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## MattS (Apr 5, 2004)

mnjclark said:


> I'm gonna give it a while before returning the other one. But it's looking hopeful......


If your unit was exchanged the normal way that the exchanges are created. If you do not ship that item back within 15 days, your account will be charged for the "missing" unit...

But being as though I dont know the way it was done, it is possible there were "exceptions" made for this particular exchange.


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## mnjclark (Apr 15, 2004)

Yes, it was done the "normal" way. I have 10 days after activation to return the unit. By saying that I was going to give it "a while" I meant about a week as to not miss the return deadline.

Thanks.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Keep a copy of the tracking number in case it gets lost E should have that normally but a snafu could cost over $700


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## frustrated with 721 (Apr 26, 2004)

I have the same exact problem that started exactly after the software upgrade was loaded. Waiting impatiently for a fix


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## Guest (Jun 15, 2004)

frustrated with 721 said:


> I have the same exact problem that started exactly after the software upgrade was loaded. Waiting impatiently for a fix


I have the exact same problem. I am happy and sad to see that others are also seeing the problem


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

Mine is still doing it. I hope they fix this in the next software release with the ''unknown" bug.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

At least Dish is saying that the "unknown bug" is a known issue. They usually deny and say your the first one to report that one.......


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Not long ago advanced terch said lost tuner 2 wasnt a known issue LOL


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

Speaking of which, I think that's exactly what happened (lost a tuner). I've been there, RMA-ed that.

The "77 unknown" thing is related to that...there is no way for the box to identify a channel it can't decode, so it defaults to that. The problem is after the reception stuff...bad tuners are still bad tuners even with wall-to-wall signal strength. This is also known as "black screen with banner" by some in advanced TS. Usually some troubleshooting with PIP can narrow it down, but the result is the same--RMA city.

I also suspect that the tuner may have had a soft failure long ago. It's easy to mask if you don't use PIP or simul recordings very often. The software up rev might have simply aggravated or uncovered the situation (not that this matters) so it may indeed be a hardware problem. Or not. "77 Unknown" was around long before this software up rev, as were 39-second recordings (haven't seen one in months, thankfully) And neither was apparently addressed in L119.

"Known problem" implies a question..."Known by whom?" Apparently once something becomes a known problem (or a tech recognizes a familiar pattern) he keeps that to himself and doesn't seem to share it with the rest, because this is the pattern I see in E* TS, and that pattern of behavior is REALLY a "known problem". They never seem to talk to each other and never share their "wealth" of experience with each other. Each one knows what he knows, learns what he learns on his own, and TS suffers. Bad management. Typical of a company where arrogance is the order of the day, and if you are in TS the only way to survive is to circle the wagons around your own little cult of knowledge.

8 years? I think you would have to be a charter sub, since I think they launched in May, just over 8 years ago.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

I have had a lot of recordings record on both tuners at the same time and have seen no issues with the tuners as I did when there was a second tuner failure.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

I have the unknown bug on all 3 of my 721s and have had it since the last software update. It is mildly irritating. Have to hit cancel once to clear it and then again to get the show title and time remaining. Just imagine what will happen when they introduce name based recording.:eek2:


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

I do not see it as a major bug. It may not be an issue with NBR if it already knew what to record based on the name to begin with when the program begins the recording, but if it identifies it as ''unknown recording'' then this would cause all NBR's not to work.


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## kirk27 (Oct 17, 2003)

I have had the 77 UNK bug for some time. I just figured that it went along with the fact that the 721 doesn't always seem to know what program is being displayed. The title bar and the info screen don't always correctly reflect the reality.

BTW, Dish still denies that any timer bugs exist. Today, the advanced tech support joker claimed that all timer bugs were fixed in the 171 release. He refused to submit a bug issue report to the engineering department. I called Dish sometime later and the tech indicated that my account only had a mention that I had called today and no details were recorded.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

Even if he would submit the bug report it may not have done any good, they probably just say they are reporting it half the time anways and dont. What would help more is a better attitude from the CSR's and more of a willing to help out acting as if they actually care.


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