# Sound Off if your seeing washed out video with your make and model of TV



## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Figured it might do some good to get some input on who is seeing the washed out Component video issue. Please answer the poll and post your make an type of TV you you are seeing this on. 

I will start: 

Sony 60 GWII LCD RPTV 

Status: I am seeing a slight washed out look. Might be do to that each input can be calibrated.

REMEMBER this is a support forum. Please state your experiences and avoid the rock throwing. Any posts with those type of comments will be deleted without warning. (Example: This issue really sucks!! Yada, Yada, Yada).


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## Foxbat (Aug 1, 2003)

Dish 811 w/P3.34 connected to a Toshiba 34HF81 via ColorStream HD1 (component): I was seeing a brighter signal, but I was able to readjust this input to compensate.

Software: P334
Satellite: 119 110 61.5
Device: DP34-500, Twin-1(1), Twin-2(2), Sgl(3)
DNASP: 02 Rev283
Hardware ID: LADD-N
Bootstrap: 1014


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## Jason Nipp (Jun 10, 2004)

I have the 811 on an LCD RP and a Plasma. Yes I notice hotter picture on component, and I posted side by side comparisons in another thread, but was able to adjust the brightness down to compensate. The black levels appear to be more true and no longer crush. But on the LCD especially, the picture was on the bright side until I adjusted the input settings.


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## Jerry G (Jul 12, 2003)

I have a Fujitsu 50" plasma and a Mitsubishi 22" HD LCD. Both can be fed a component or HDMI/DVI signal from an 811 and 942, so I can easily make side by side comparisons between both STBs and both sets and both types of outputs (component and HDMI/DVI) using switchers. Prior to this software release, the 811 and 942 component and HDMI outputs were very close on both sets. Now, if I switch the input to either set between the 811 and 942 (via component), the excessive brightness from the 811 component output is very easy to see. Neither set can be adequately adjusted to compensate for the 811 video output. It is simply incorrect output from the component. If I change the brightness/contrast of either display to improve the 811's component output, then the 942's video output will look terrible.

Yet, if I compare the output from the 811 and 942 HDMI/DVI output, they are very close. To me this demonstrates that there is something inherently wrong with the 811's component output. The video from the 811 and 942 should be very close if both STBs are functioning correctly in how they output the video signal from either component or HDMI. They were, but no longer are. I obviously cannot and will not try to change the display's settings every time I switch between the 811 and 942. Dish has made a very big mistake in how they set the component output from the 811. There is NO way the 811 component output should be that different from the 811 DVI output or the 942 component or HDMI output.

I have a second 811 in another room that also has excessive brightness. Both 811's produce a washed out picture (only via component) that cannot be adequately compensated for by changing the display's settings. Deep rich blacks cannot be achieved from the component 811 output.

If Dish thinks the 811 component output is correct, then why haven't they done the same thing to the 942 component output and the 811 and 942 HDMI output? And if they do this, they will destroy the 942 also. And I'm so concerned by this mistake, that I fear the new MPEG4 STBs will also be incorrectly set and I've now put all plans to upgrade to MPEG4 on hold. If this problem affects all 811s, I can't believe that it's acceptable to anyone. And since it affects both my 811s the same way, I think it may be affecting all 811s, but some just don't realize how badly the component output of the 811 has been affected. Those who are making large changes in their display's contrast and brightness shouldn't have to be making these adjustments. Both my 811s are now unwatchable via component output.

Let me just reiterate the one observation that to me proves that Dish made a big mistake with the 811 component output. Prior to this software release, the component output from the 811 and 942 were nearly identical when fed to either HD set. That's the way it should be. Now, to the same display, the 811 component output is washed out and the 942 output looks great. There is no way to adjust the display to have a good picture from both the 811 and 942. Something is very wrong!

EDIT: A question for those of you feeding your display with component from the 811 and component from a DVD player to the same component input (via a switcher). How does your DVD video output look now that you've changed your display settings to compensate for the 811 component output?


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## Jason Nipp (Jun 10, 2004)

Jerry G said:


> A question for those of you feeding your display with component from the 811 and component from a DVD player to the same component input (via a switcher). How does your DVD video output look now that you've changed your display settings to compensate for the 811 component output?


I am using the same DVI (811 and HD-DVD931) Since the Samsung DVD player doesn't support 780 or 1080 thru component, I suppose I could switch the 811 to 480p and try what you are describing. You could compensate for this by feeding the DVD player through the 811's composite inputs, this way the source level would match up. Not ideal for DVD I know, but it is a band aid that could hold someone in this situation over till the fix is released.

I would also like to remind all that this is not the first time a tweak has been performed on the 811's HD outputs. The last 2 tweaks were to DVI however. But I believe it was P2.69 were this exact topic occurred on DVI. And that issue did get worked out for users. So lets do our due diligence, and collect as much info as we can to aid in a speedy resolution.

It would be nice to collect model info on all displays and DVD players exhibiting these issues. Also include the Hardware ID Revision of your 811 which is on page 3 of the sys-info screen, pictures of comparisions from the same input are welcomed.


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## Laverne (Feb 17, 2005)

Well, I just got P3.34. I voted YES on CRT because I could TELL a difference. (EDIT: Connected via component..)

One man's 'unwatchable' is another woman's 'gee, it looks a little brighter now!'..

I wish I had known better what to look for, but that's my fault. I could definitely tell a difference right away when the box was in Standby, that it was somewhat brighter, but IMO not a LOT brighter.

Because of this thread I did take pics of the DISH mosaic before and after. (Wish I had had thought better of that and taken pics of the Sys Info or a test pattern or something like that..  <-- at myself..) I may post those later, if you guys want.

I'll wait till I watch some of my more favorite 'dark' shows like "CSI" or "24" or "Lost", to see if I can see what is in the shadows better before I try to adjust my set.


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## rickfromthesticks (Sep 22, 2004)

My 811 is connected to Toshiba RPTV with component and colors have always been poor, but lately the blacks are ridiculous. If there's a dark area in the picture, I'll have a pretty dark border around it and the middle has a grey area that changes in size and shape if it stays on screen long enough. Totally distracting.

DVD input with component no problem.

Rick


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## cpdretired (Aug 25, 2003)

Samsung 50" DLP using DVI connection without a problem. Component connection not hooked up.


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## BoisePaul (Apr 26, 2005)

811 to Samsung 50" DLP HLR5067W via component. Blacks much brighter than they should be. I can compensate by dropping brightness control to very low levels, but must adjust every time due to other devices sharing this input. 811's HW ID is LAFD-N, if it helps.


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## Mikey (Oct 26, 2004)

65" Sony RP with DVI only, no problem. 

Maybe tonight I'll hook the component up again. I think I can do a PIP with the two input sources.


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## tonyp56 (Apr 26, 2004)

811 334, Dish/RCA 40" RPTV, through component I saw a brighter picture than through DVI (though I think even the DVI is brighter than before, especially when viewing OTA channels that don't fill the screen, the black bars look brighter than they did pre 334, which to me mean brighter settings), to the effect of looking washed out.

I tested my 811, because I use DVI, and I saw everyone else talking about component being brighter, I decided to test it out, and I did see a difference.


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## bhenge (Mar 2, 2005)

I have a Runco 710 front projector and see dramatic washing out of the picture (component input only, DVI (which I can't use day to day yet, seems OK). My projector is ISF calibrated and I am unable to change the input settings. Since ISF calibration usually results in a much dimmer picture than most people are used to, the change caused by p3.34 may be more dramatic.


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## moman19 (Oct 22, 2004)

Yes. Very bad on Component outputs. Not a problem with DVI/HDMI but I cannot use this port with my Toshiba 52" DLP due to severe image ghosting on the HDMI input. Upscalled DVD player does NOT exhibit ghosting when using HDMI.


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## Ken H (Nov 24, 2004)

I have a Sony CRT RPTV display, feeding it component video from the 811. There is an obvious difference in the black level since 3.34; the image is much brighter, blacks are dark gray.

I also feed the display component video from 5 other sources; DirecTV LG LSS-3200a, Comcast Moto 6412, Panasonic TU-DST51 DTV tuner, JVC SR-VD400U D-VHS, (all 1080i), and Pioneer DV-525 DVD (480i).

The sources are switched via two Extron 300MHZ SW-4AR MX video switchers, using Canare V-3 75 ohm video cable. All sources had very similar black levels, except now the 811 is considerably less black.


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## yoyogi (Jan 20, 2006)

The box is now simply outputting a different black level (7.5 IRE vs 0 IRE). You need to recalibrate your TV. Now, unless you can set the rest of your components to output the same black level (search for Black Level, or IRE in your DVD player etc), you will need to maintain a different 'picture setting' for the Dish Network setting on your TV.

Your TV supports different picture settings per input, right? 

Yoyogi


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

:welcome_s yoyogi

Not all TVs support different settings per input. Some only support one common setting across the board. 

Interesting post... How sure are you and would be nice to get some confirmation from another 811 user..


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## yoyogi (Jan 20, 2006)

My earlier post pasted below - got moved to an unrelated thread (?). I am quite certain of what I stated above. I can duplicate the same behavior with my DVD player - ie, toggle black level and duplicate the behavior coming out of the 811.

---------------

I came home today to discover my pictures washed out. After about an hour of 'debug', I think I have some answers.

3.34 simply set the Black Level to 7.5 IRE (as opposed to 0 IRE) for the component outputs only.

All you have to do is re-calibrate your TV for this new black level coming from the HDTV box.

This may be much harder than you think, as most of us use a DVD to calibrate our system, so unless your DVD player can output 7.5 IRE (for my Sony DVD player 
set Black Level = ON), you are SOL. You may be able to use the HDNET test signals instead if you are in this situation.

This is VERY annoying - but there is nothing really "wrong" with your box, it is just outputting a different black level.

Hope this helps.

Yoyogi

PS : the poll on this issue is misleading - it has nothing to do with the KIND OF TV you have - it is all about whether or not you are using the component output. on the other hand, if your TV is automatically adjusting for 0 or 7.5 IRE, you will not notice the issue


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## yoyogi (Jan 20, 2006)

Ron - if you set up a related poll, but only asked the question

1-> I use component and have the issue
2-> I use component and do not have the issue
3-> I do not use component and have the issue
4-> I do not use component and do not have the issue

I predict the overwhelming responses will be #1 and # 4


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## Larry Kenney (Aug 19, 2005)

I have the Dish 811 with P3.34 connected by component video to a Sony KD-34XBR2 CRT. I had to increase the "Picture" setting and lower the brightness to get a picture that matched my previous settings. The picture lacked black levels and definitely looked washed out.

Now when I switch to the internal tuner in my Sony the picture is very dark. I normally use the 811 for OTA, though, since it's a better receiver. I get less break up from multipath problems and can pull in signals with the 811 that I can't get with the Sony tuner.

One very nice addition with P3.34 is the signal strength meter you get when you tune into an OTA station that's not strong enough to view. It really is a big help in getting the antenna set right on the money with the rotor.

Larry
SF


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## olgeezer (Dec 5, 2003)

I answered three times. At work--hooked up to an 811 one microdisplay on DVI same brand and size microdisplay next to it on component. 3 additional microdisplays and 2 LCDs hooked up on component. At home a RPTV 52". Have seen no difference in brightness, color or contrast levels on any tv at work. Yesterday 334 downloaded at home. One set hooked up with DVI, Component, and S-video. If there has been any change, it would appears to be an improvement on component, as it is harder to distinguish brightness contrast color and tint between component and DVI


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## yoyogi (Jan 20, 2006)

Ken H

Having one system with a different (unadjustable!) black level than the rest makes it a nightmare to use. ie, I have only one "Pro" setting on my Sony with one memory setting, so I am f**ed too.

Yoyogi


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

yoyogi said:


> Ron - if you set up a related poll, but only asked the question
> 
> 1-> I use component and have the issue
> 2-> I use component and do not have the issue
> ...


Added the word Component but I doubt it will make it to the poll thread. I do mention component on my intitial post though.

The reason the post is TV based was someone thought it might be releated to the type and Make of TV that you are using if you have the issue. From the reports and the release notes we feel it only effects component. If you read my first post in the thread I mention component only.

By the way yoyogi... Anyone can create a poll. If you want to set one up go for it.


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## Mike Johnson (Jan 16, 2005)

I have noticed a increase in black level on the component outputs of the 811 since P334 hit. It is very noticeable, but I would not call it 'unwatchable'. I can easily adjust my TV to correct for it. (But maybe that is because I have a CRT television.) I have both my 942 and 811 connected to my Sony CRT HDTV. The picture was very comparable between the 811 and the 942 until I got P334. Now the blacks on the 811 are grey. Here are some photos to compare the difference between the 811 and the 942.

And by the way, I did use manual exposure on my camera to make sure the images were comparable.


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## Jerry G (Jul 12, 2003)

yoyogi said:


> The box is now simply outputting a different black level (7.5 IRE vs 0 IRE).


I can't agree with this assessment at all. My DVD player can be set to output 7.5 or 0 IRE. I just checked it and switched between the two IRE levels via component inputs to my plasma. Changing from 7.5 to 0 to 7.5 produced a mild change in the black levels, but didn't come close to changing the overall brightness that many of us are seeing with the latest 811 software. I believe your conclusion that the new 811 software is simply changing the IRE level is erroneous and that what has happened to the 811 with the latest software goes well beyond just changing the IRE.


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## Jason Nipp (Jun 10, 2004)

8 series in pane 1, 9 series pane 2. 1st pic is 1080i split screen, 2nd is 720p split screen.

Display is Hitachi 50V500A.


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## Jason Nipp (Jun 10, 2004)

Again, 8 series left, 9 series right.

Again Hitachi 50V500A.

Art, I hope you don't mind me sharing your pictures, if you do, let me know and I'll pull them. 

(Reminder, bavaria and I have almost identical setups, so his pictures verses mine are apples to apples.)


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## DCWillia (May 6, 2005)

Dish 811 w/P3.34 connected via DVI and S-Video to a Mitsubishi WS-65813, and I have the washed out look on both inputs. Since I can adjust the picture brightness seperately for all of my inputs, this is not as big of a problem for me as for others.


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## HDjunkie (May 16, 2005)

Infocus SP5000 Front Projector. 811 connected via component. Picture very washed out. Have to adjust brightness down to 28 to get corrected black level. (Previously set at 44 for good black level) Can't get it as good as before, blacks seem to be crushed

51" CRT RPTV 811 connected via DVI. picture is fine.


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## cfunk (Feb 11, 2003)

Foxbat said:


> Dish 811 w/P3.34 connected to a Toshiba 34HF81 via ColorStream HD1 (component): I was seeing a brighter signal, but I was able to readjust this input to compensate.
> 
> Software: P334
> Satellite: 119 110 61.5
> ...


Hello! I have the same tv you have with the 921 receiver. I find the HD
picture outstanding , but the standard defintion poor. I run the SD
through svideo. I was just wondering what input you run it through and
how you find the picture quality. Also is there someting you do to help with
the picture quality.


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## diospyros (Nov 14, 2005)

Usually use DVI with DVI to HDMI cable. Sony 51" RPCRT. Received P334 on my 811 this weekend and DVI output is fine, but component (which was almost as good as DVI) is now washed out. Not even sure I would consider it worthy of HD in that state. I will still watch DVI-to-HDMI, but would be angry if same thing happens to that. I don't understand why anyone would knowingly send different signals to different connectors.


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