# HR20-700 an Inferior Product?



## bikspk (Apr 17, 2007)

Yes!

Based on my own personal experience with a Scientific Atlanta 8300HD (former Adelphia HD-DVR).

Scientific Atlantia 8300HD had and HR20dual live buffers, PIP, variable audio out, sleep timer, reasonable channel change speed, additional hard drive space via SATA) while the HR20-700 does not (even though some are advertised).

This product was released with insufficient hardware, incomplete software and a poorly designed UI. Support through new software releases is extremely slow and seems to address inane things such as LED animation rather than getting OTA locals to come in (Spend time detailing my car when the wipers don't work and one of the spark plugs is bad).

Where else do you buy a product with so many missing features and broken components? Please warn me so I don't buy it.

Maybe they should have opened this up to outside companies such that there was competition and the cream would rise to the top.

Argh!


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## jmschnur (Aug 30, 2006)

After 5 months of use I can say that the hardware is fine. It is better ot use an external fan to cool the 700.

Firmware upgrades have now made the unit a good buy with lots of good features. 

Now the HR20-700 is a very good basic DVR. In my house OTA works fine.

That having been said there are serveral issues that could be better. 

Let's hope that new firmware addresses those areas that still need a bit of tweaking.


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## jonaswan2 (Oct 29, 2005)

DIRECTV used to have it open to other companies, but stopped that around the time News Corp. took control and made it in house. This should have helped DIRECTV give better support and of course put money News Corp.'s pocket.

And the UI thing is subjective. Of course your going to say the cable box has a better UI, because that's what your used to. I like DIRECTV's UI. It reminds me a lot of the Windows UI.


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## CobraGuy (Apr 23, 2007)

I think there are some problems that could really cause D* some issues if they aren't fixed quickly. It really doesn't perform as advertised...or as it should. However, I feel this is due to pressure to bring something to market before they were ready. I'm cutting them some slack as they are feverishly working to make this right. The latest CE download has really helped. Let's hope they get it the rest of the way...quickly.

We know there had to be pressure. Why else would you start shipping a product they KNEW had so many problems?


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

There was a LOT of pressure. All over forum land this time last year was tons of posts ripping DirecTV for not having the receiver out yet. And it was starting to get some press as well.
So they were probably backed into a corner and rolled it out a bit earlier then they wanted to I'm sure. In the end though it will probably turn out to be a better product due to all the CE work done here which has pushed the direction of the HR20.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

bikspk said:


> Yes!
> 
> Based on my own personal experience with a Scientific Atlanta 8300HD (former Adelphia HD-DVR).
> 
> ...


Too each their own..


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

bikspk said:


> Yes!
> 
> Based on my own personal experience with a Scientific Atlanta 8300HD (former Adelphia HD-DVR).
> 
> Scientific Atlantia 8300HD had and HR20dual live buffers, PIP, variable audio out, sleep timer, reasonable channel change speed, additional hard drive space via SATA) while the HR20-700 does not (even though some are advertised).


Interesting....my Comcrap customer neighbor is on his 3rd unit, with the first 2 being defective. According to the latest installer, they have had to return a number of them due to faulty power supplies. In addition, it took 5 install visits just to get it to work at all the first time. Yeah, much better....


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

My personal view:

Last month (March 07) I decided to finally do the HD upgrade thing (delayed by the need to not only upgrade the TV, but also renovate the entire family room). So, since I was under no commitment to DirecTV, I was free to look around and decide which service I wanted. I had 4 options: DirecTV, Dish Network, Verizon FIOS and Cablevision Optimum. 

If ANY of them were offering 100% support for the Series 3 TiVo I would have gone that route in a hearbeat. But Cablevision will not support cacblecard problems with the TiVo, and they do everything they can to dissuade you from buying it. Verizon tries to support TiVo, but since they are not part of Cable Labs, their cablecard support is weak. The satellite guys, of course, are unable to do anything with Series 3 TiVo.

So, I was going to have to use the "provider sponsored" DVR. I looked at all 4 products, and honestly found them all to be equally deficient and buggy. Oh sure, what one lacked another might have, but it then lacked something else. Reliability of each seemed to be pretty equal.

So, HD-DVR technology ultimately played no part in my decision at all.

I decided based upon content alone. I looked at DirecTV's strategy of deploying massive amounts of capacity at very narrow range of satellite locations. I looked at their public commitment to fill that capacity as quickly as they could find programming. No other provider was able to make a more persuasive case that they would provide the programming I want see.

When all the delivery technologies are equal, content really is king, and that is where DirecTV beats the competition.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

The SA is a piece of garbage. I don't know what operating system the OP is using but mine does NOT have dual live buffers and has stutters about twice an hour, has the worst interface known to man (it cannot even remember where I was on a program and has no forward slip or skip) and you cannot take channels out of the guide in any way shape or fashion.

I know there are two software versions for the SA but some of the issues with the box are hardware and no software will fix them.

All the HR20 needs at this point is DLB but it already is way above the SA that Comcrap supplies me.

Oh, and how are a sleep timer and variable audio out useful features????


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Too each their own..


I think this is the real point.
If it wasn't there wouldn't be a: Ford, Chevy, Dodge, ....... In this country your free to choose.


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## KCCardsfan (Apr 18, 2007)

Comparing Cable to Satellite is a joke, who cares what the cable box will do if the picture sucks. My HR20 has performed quite well since my December install, no resets since 0x115, no missed recordings & 17 perfect OTA digital channels. Yeah I'll give up my perfect digital Satellite picture & go back to the overcompressed, lines thru the picture, half the channels unwatchable cable. NOT!


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

KCCardsfan said:


> Comparing Cable to Satellite is a joke, who cares what the cable box will do if the picture sucks. My HR20 has performed quite well since my December install, no resets since 0x115, no missed recordings & 17 perfect OTA digital channels. Yeah I'll give up my perfect digital Satellite picture & go back to the overcompressed, lines thru the picture, half the channels unwatchable cable. NOT!


Guess it depends on who your cable provider is. We don't have Comcast available here in the NYC metro area. However, TWC and Cablevision provide comparable, if not better, PQ than D*, especially on MPEG-2 HD channels... they don't throttle the bitrate as much as D* does, if at all. And their DVR's are pretty much rock-solid and significantly less-flawed than the HR20 is at this point in its evolution. I know this from first hand experience. Both my kids are using Cablevision HD DVRs in their respective homes. FIOS TV is also now becoming widely available in this area. From what I've read, FIOS PQ is excellent as well. I don't know much about their DVR, however.

So why not just go cable? Football package aside, after the first year introductory offers run out, cable pricing in our area can be anywhere from 20%-30% higher than D*, depending on the equipment and programming ordered. They all suck you in with their "triple play" pricing of phone, cable and internet from $90-$100/month for the first year, after which they lower the boom and jack up the prices. /s


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## Milominderbinder2 (Oct 8, 2006)

Every few weeks, we have had one new feature after another: OTA, Networking, etc. In ways even bigger was when they made the Guide button work like the manual promised. Taking off animations was like getting the tar out of the box.

Earls says that they have 7 or 8 more features that they are working on. We have a new user interface coming. We know that VOD is close.

In June the new Satellite should launch with new HD starting in September.

The whole tone of this forum has changed dramatically since the new year. It used to be about lost recordings and resets. Now it is the features we want them to add.

The HR20 is not perfect. They still have promised features to complete. But every month gets better and better.

- Craig


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## bikspk (Apr 17, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Interesting....my Comcrap customer neighbor is on his 3rd unit, with the first 2 being defective. According to the latest installer, they have had to return a number of them due to faulty power supplies. In addition, it took 5 install visits just to get it to work at all the first time. Yeah, much better....


From my own experience ....

Had an 8300HD for almost 2 years and it worked flawlessly.


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## bikspk (Apr 17, 2007)

tonyd79 said:


> The SA is a piece of garbage. I don't know what operating system the OP is using but mine does NOT have dual live buffers and has stutters about twice an hour, has the worst interface known to man (it cannot even remember where I was on a program and has no forward slip or skip) and you cannot take channels out of the guide in any way shape or fashion.
> 
> I know there are two software versions for the SA but some of the issues with the box are hardware and no software will fix them.
> 
> ...


It uses a version of Linux.
The HR20-700 gets the jiggies about every half hour too.
Is D giving you a discount while they sort out the bugs and deliver missing features?
To each his own on what features are there. However, cable boxes, TV's, A/V receivers - all have some sleep function. HR20-700 does not. I don't give a crap about some features that others can't do without but I respect their opinion (you want Pink pillar's, have em)
As for the variable audio out, yea, I have some line-level computer speakers plugged into one of my units and I suspect others do too. Being able to remotely control the volume in this setup through the HR20-700 would be extremely convenient. So, let me know about the features you want so I can pooh-pooh them by saying (Who needs fill_in_the_blank?).


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## bikspk (Apr 17, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> I think this is the real point.
> If it wasn't there wouldn't be a: Ford, Chevy, Dodge, ....... In this country your free to choose.


So what is my other option from D for an HD DVR? (I really don't know that there are any are there - correct me?)


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## bikspk (Apr 17, 2007)

KCCardsfan said:


> Comparing Cable to Satellite is a joke, who cares what the cable box will do if the picture sucks. My HR20 has performed quite well since my December install, no resets since 0x115, no missed recordings & 17 perfect OTA digital channels. Yeah I'll give up my perfect digital Satellite picture & go back to the overcompressed, lines thru the picture, half the channels unwatchable cable. NOT!


Does D not still participate in HDLite?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

bikspk said:


> So what is my other option from D for an HD DVR? (I really don't know that there are any are there - correct me?)


Only this for MPEG-4, but there are older MPEG-2 units [HR10-250, for one]. Now these won't get the new programing coming up or your local HD, as these are all MPEG-4.
My cable company uses a Motorola HD DVR that was absurd [not a Ford or Chevy, but more like a yugo].


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## bikspk (Apr 17, 2007)

One thing of note, I respect Earl and the others who support the beta/CE testing and think that the feedback loop is a good thing.

I'm just frustrated that CIR/CID/DLB/etc. are still not working.

I have D since, for futbol (soccer for some of you) it's the bomb (Setanta, GolTV, FSC, ESPN, etc.).

Everyone is so excited about VOD and the new HD channels but the basic box is still broken.

Has anyone found Scotty's ashes?


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> Only this for MPEG-4, but there are older MPEG-2 units [HR10-250, for one]. Now these won't get the new programing coming up or your local HD, as these are all MPEG-4.
> My cable company uses a Motorola HD DVR that was absurd [not a Ford or Chevy, but more like a yugo].


Just a reminder, MPEG-4 is not a feature, it's a D* necessity to provide national locals in 100s of markets. Cableco's don't need it. /s


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

bikspk said:


> I have D since, for futbol (soccer for some of you) it's the bomb (Setanta, GolTV, FSC, ESPN, etc.).
> Has anyone found Scotty's ashes?


That's the football where they actually use their feet as opposed to the other one that they almost never?


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Milominderbinder2 said:


> We have a new user interface coming.


More info plz? /s


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## jonaswan2 (Oct 29, 2005)

Steve said:


> More info plz? /s


From what we've seen of it, the new interface is just a refresh of the old interface. Nothing life changing should. Kind of like the difference between the old Active channel and the new Active channel.


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## Milominderbinder2 (Oct 8, 2006)

Steve said:


> Milominderbinder2 said:
> 
> 
> > We have a new user interface coming.
> ...


We will have a new GUI coming soon. It has to be released before VOD can come out.

You can see it here:

Screenshots of New HR20 UI (for photos and Music)

- Craig


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## GollyGee (Feb 6, 2007)

I had two DirecTV TiVo units, and replaced one with a HR20. 

There is absolutely, positively no doubt in my mind that the DirecTV TiVo units were FAR superior to the HR20.

The DirecTV product managers should know better than to put out a product that is inferior to the previous product. This talk about VoD and DirecTV interactive is VERY annoying. They need to fix the basic problems before giving us more partially complete new features.


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## gcisko (Sep 27, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> Only this for MPEG-4, but there are older MPEG-2 units [HR10-250, for one]. Now these won't get the new programing coming up or your local HD, as these are all MPEG-4.
> My cable company uses a Motorola HD DVR that was absurd [not a Ford or Chevy, but more like a yugo].


Well without the ability to record the local HD, the old HD DVR's were a joke. No way would I get one. I waited and waited and finially the HR20 appeared. It appeared to be exactly what I was waiting for. About 80% of the HD people would want to DVR is local. At least for me it is.


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## gcisko (Sep 27, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Too each their own..


Maybe. But it was released before it was working as advertized. We all know this. So???? What is the deal here?


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## gcisko (Sep 27, 2006)

bikspk said:


> Does D not still participate in HDLite?


Well... Their HD is supposedly 1080i isn't it? Is that HD lite? You some kind of trouble maker or something?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

gcisko said:


> About 80% of the HD people would want to DVR is local. At least for me it is. ......Well... Their HD is supposedly 1080i isn't it? Is that HD lite?


Part one could be done with OTA not requiring MPEG-4
Part two, while 1080i, for MPEG-2 HD, D* does reduce the bandwidth by using more compression, or by using bigger blocks to compress [aka HD lite].


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## say-what (Dec 14, 2006)

GollyGee said:


> I had two DirecTV TiVo units, and replaced one with a HR20.
> 
> There is absolutely, positively no doubt in my mind that the DirecTV TiVo units were FAR superior to the HR20.


I'd tend to disagree - I had both an SD (several years prior to the HR20) and HD (1 year prior) DTivos and find the HR20 to be very comparable and in some instances better than the TIVO's. I like both of my HR20's and don't consider them inferior.


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## slam22 (May 14, 2007)

HD user for two years, six months with the HR20-700, first post here. With one exception, that being our local NBC signal is always pixelated and I have no idea why, I'm happy overall with the unit. The one thing that continues to confound me is why would DTV get rid of Tivo and replace it with their own interface. Why reinvent the wheel? In my experience Tivo is far superior to what DTV has put out, at least up to now. It's like going from a BMW to a Yugo.


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## NavySWO91 (May 14, 2007)

Agree.

What is the deal with the SD NBC? This channel is by far the worst HD... frequent pixelation.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Check your local HD thread on AVS and I'm sure you'll find out what the problem is.


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## MartyS (Dec 29, 2006)

gcisko said:


> Well without the ability to record the local HD, the old HD DVR's were a joke. No way would I get one. I waited and waited and finially the HR20 appeared. It appeared to be exactly what I was waiting for. About 80% of the HD people would want to DVR is local. At least for me it is.


You were able to record HD Locals with the TiVo units... you just needed an OTA antenna, either indoor or outdoor.

Now, the spot beams are nice, and having local HD through the sats are fine, but only when D* will allow the HR20 to scan for signals rather than forcing me into only the channels that they have in their database.

I get about 15 more channels from my antenna direct to my TV than I do through the HR20. So, for me, being able to record HD on PBS, CW and others in HD requires the antenna anyway.

Also, the OTA tuner on the HR20 is terrible. Of the channels that I can receive on the HR20, I still get 8 or nine more signals coming through direct to the TV than I do through the HR20 which always gives me a Searching for satellite message (771) for those channels that I easily receive directly on the TV.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

MartyS said:


> Also, the OTA tuner on the HR20 is terrible.


This varies by location. OTA tuners in the HR20 are better then anything else I have, I get 2 extra channels via the HR20 that I can't get otherwise.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> I think this is the real point.
> If it wasn't there wouldn't be a: Ford, Chevy, Dodge, ....... In this country your free to choose.


And if you bought a brand new Fraud, Chevy or Dodge that had the proportional amount of glitches you would be outraged. But then people elected Nixon twice, we all use Windows based computers instead of Macs and until DVRs and DVD players came along we all had VHS VCRS rather than Beta-Maxes. Cattle always follow the lead steer or cow no matter how shabby they are.

The initiator of this thread is echoing my thread from months ago. And still we go on. Easier to accept the status quo than challenge it. That said, my HR20s and their ESATAs are working well. I do miss the ease of use of the TiVos.

I appreciate the help you and Earl gave to me and always will, but I still think we got the crappy end of the stick with these things. Nothing should have a learning curve like this when sold to the general public.

13 HR20s and 7 ESATAs to get two to work properly and I still have to back everything up on my SD TiVos. What other industry gets away with such poor quality control? Go to a computer lab at a college near you and see how many computers in the lab are working. Half if you are lucky.

I'm going to hit some baseballs now. Take out my frustration on them.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> This varies by location. OTA tuners in the HR20 are better then anything else I have, I get 2 extra channels via the HR20 that I can't get otherwise.


I agree with Scott. E.g., in my location I'm getting the same number of channels with higher signal strength numbers on my HR20 than I got on my HR10, using the same roof antenna. /s


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## brewer4 (Aug 19, 2006)

I've used/owned several different HD DVR's over the years including E*'s 942 and 622, HD Tivo HR10-250 and D*'s HR20. I found good/great things in all units. Somethings were better in other units but I think all in their own way are good. I wish the HR20 had PIP like the 942/622 units but still doesnt make it a POS.


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## 66stang351 (Aug 10, 2006)

rich584 said:


> 13 HR20s and 7 ESATAs to get two to work properly and I still have to back everything up on my SD TiVos. What other industry gets away with such poor quality control? Go to a computer lab at a college near you and see how many computers in the lab are working. Half if you are lucky.


Wow, 13 boxes and 7 ESATAs. I have had 1 HR-20 and 1 ESATA enclosure. First hooked it up 1 December and only had 2 issues with it. Had the BSB where I came out of standby to a black screen 3 times in December and January none since and one spate, right after I broke the whole system down and reassembled it in a new location, where it went from scheduling all my SL down to about 1/3 over the course of a week. One RBR each fixed all four instances.

p.s. I like the HR-20 UI much better than my Tivo. The Tivo interface was the most unuserfriendly thing I have ever used.....hated that interface.


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## bto4wd (Apr 17, 2007)

jmschnur said:


> After 5 months of use I can say that the hardware is fine. It is better ot use an external fan to cool the 700.


So you view a CE product that requires an external fan as "hardware is fine"? :eek2:

May D* should include a certificate from RadioShack for each unit so those consumers that don't even know to monitor the temp of their device, or how to monitor it, at least knows they need to do more.


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## bto4wd (Apr 17, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Too each their own..


Good come back! :lol:


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

rich584 said:


> And if you bought a brand new Fraud,....


I won't tell you how bad my 85 t-bird came off the dealer floor...it was one big law suit, now there was a real POS. [BTW: I'm still driving it, go figure].


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## 66stang351 (Aug 10, 2006)

bto4wd said:


> So you view a CE product that requires an external fan as "hardware is fine"? :eek2:
> 
> May D* should include a certificate from RadioShack for each unit so those consumers that don't even know to monitor the temp of their device, or how to monitor it, at least knows they need to do more.


The HR-20 doesn't require an external fan. I added a fan to my entertainment center because it is in a cramped tight space, I have 5 components staked right on top of each other with less than an inch of clearance at the top and no venalation in the back or sides. Prior to the fan I ran my HR-20 four 4 months with no issues in that tight space and it never got overly hot. Many other users just feel more comfortable with the external fan because the HR-20 lets you go in and see the internal temp and it scares them. If that wasn't there nobody would be the wiser and nobody would have external fans.


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## bikspk (Apr 17, 2007)

gcisko said:


> Well... Their HD is supposedly 1080i isn't it? Is that HD lite? You some kind of trouble maker or something?


I'm just trying to keep eveyone on the ground.

There is so much talk about the new UI, VOD and the 100 new HD channels (think Scotty's ashes).

I just bought a old house and a new addition would be great but part of the roof needs replaced, gutters repaired, fascia replaced, and a retaining wall repaired (very limited list). I think it would be better to get the existing house fixed before I start on an addition eh?

D needs to fix existing issues including missing promised features before they start working on the addition.

As for all of the discussion about HD, my Adelphia (now dead) HD never pixellated and looked great (even fast motion stuff in the background on ESPN). I cannot say the same about D.


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## BobV (Dec 15, 2006)

Here is your choices;
Tivo series $800 (to much money not much on new features)

Cable price varys but expensive (To me cable companys ripped people off for years and I will never go back)

FIOS ? New. (some places will never get it.... I still am waiting on DSL let alone
FIOS.)

DTV HR20 $0 - $200 (A very nice alternative to the Tivo.. Subs very in price)

So the choice is yours. I stay with D.


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## brittonx (Dec 26, 2006)

In our house the HR20 performs well with the exception of the OTA tuners.
There are 5 stations that the two H20s in the house can get with great reception that the HR20 cannot even get a signal lock.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

brittonx said:


> In our house the HR20 performs well with the exception of the OTA tuners.
> There are 5 stations that the two H20s in the house can get with great reception that the HR20 cannot even get a signal lock.


I know this is a bit OT, so PM me if you like. Are you by any chance diplexing a master antenna signal to the HR20's, even though the technical specs say you can't? Curious how you have them all connected. I've got four HR20's, but because I don't have a third coax line running to 3 of them, I can only connect my roof mounted OTA antenna to one of them. When I had four HR10's, the diplexing solution worked great. I'd love to figure out a way to feed them all with an OTA signal. TIA. /s


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## convem24 (Mar 11, 2007)

Everybody is a critic. The HR20 is the future of what D* wants to do. The interactive features are done well in my opinion. I had NFLST last year and was able to use the stats feature. This interactive feature was much imporved in MLBEI (they obviously keep working on Interactive features continuously). Everybody will have an opinion why something is not live yet (like DLB). Even the cable companies put out firmware revisions like D* and E* do on their equipment. I have had a little experience in software development and it is not an easy job. 

I would expect D* to replace the H20 and R15 in the next 6 months or later (each came out in 2005). If the R15 replacement is superior to R15 that will make many leased R15 customers happy. Development on features is something important but you must prioritize what is important to the majority of your customers. As the saying goes you cannot make all the people happy all the time. Not that I advocate consumers to stop fighting for what they want but I advocate to consumers that you cannot have every in a snap of the fingers. Consumers want something yesterday! We are an instant gratification society.

Life is too long to be on Cable!


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## Marcia_Brady (Nov 25, 2005)

We've grown tired of being a D* guinea pig; we didn't ask to be one and find it somewhat offensive to have to _pay_ to help them develop their DVR.

But complaining about it is futile. Perhaps the HR20 will be bug free within the next 12 months or so, perhaps not.


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## tiger2005 (Sep 23, 2006)

rich584 said:


> And if you bought a brand new Fraud, Chevy or Dodge that had the proportional amount of glitches you would be outraged. But then people elected Nixon twice, we all use Windows based computers instead of Macs and until DVRs and DVD players came along we all had VHS VCRS rather than Beta-Maxes. Cattle always follow the lead steer or cow no matter how shabby they are.
> 
> The initiator of this thread is echoing my thread from months ago. And still we go on. Easier to accept the status quo than challenge it. That said, my HR20s and their ESATAs are working well. I do miss the ease of use of the TiVos.
> 
> ...


Great post! Couldn't agree more. With each day that goes by, I become more and more disillusioned with D*. I've been willing to give the HR20 a chance, but it just isn't getting the job done as I expected it would.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

66stang351 said:


> Wow, 13 boxes and 7 ESATAs. I have had 1 HR-20 and 1 ESATA enclosure. First hooked it up 1 December and only had 2 issues with it. Had the BSB where I came out of standby to a black screen 3 times in December and January none since and one spate, right after I broke the whole system down and reassembled it in a new location, where it went from scheduling all my SL down to about 1/3 over the course of a week. One RBR each fixed all four instances.
> 
> p.s. I like the HR-20 UI much better than my Tivo. The Tivo interface was the most unuserfriendly thing I have ever used.....hated that interface.


I didn't ask for all those HR20s, the Protection Plan people send you a new or refurb unit when they can't fix the problem. Naturally, the next unit comes complete with the same problem as a rule. I would have been thrilled to have the first three units work correctly out of the box. They are in the process of sending me another replacement as I write this.

As for the ESATAs, the units I have been buying cost a little less than $400 and come with a lifetime return warranty. I did nothing to cause them to start making noises and that is the only reason I returned and replaced them. I recently received two upgraded models and I have hopes of the noise problem being resolved. Consider yourself lucky to have yours function so well. I envy you.

I do like the HR20 and rarely watch my TiVos lately. Hooked on my plasma HIDEF. What bothers me is the problems people must have that do not have any technical or mechanical ability. My wife has a Bachelor's and a Master's degree in computer sciences and she is disgusted with the learning curve. I hope everyone realizes that when writing documents for the general public they are supposed to be written at a fifth or sixth grade reading level. The general public should not have to learn so much to use something. Most of the people I know are stunned to see the various TV-DVR setups I have in my house. But they don't know how to duplicate those seemingly simple setups.

Ask the next 10 people you meet what an ESATA is. I would be amazed if one person knew. We are in the minority. Everyone who posts on this site is in a technical minority. Think about that.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> I won't tell you how bad my 85 t-bird came off the dealer floor...it was one big law suit, now there was a real POS. [BTW: I'm still driving it, go figure].


Hard to let go of some cars. I have a new Caddy and a new Pontiac G6 and a 1988 Bonneville that I bought new and I can't part with it. Costs as much to insure as the Caddy. The other two should last so long.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

rich584 said:


> I didn't ask for all those HR20s, the Protection Plan people send you a new or refurb unit when they can't fix the problem. Naturally, the next unit comes complete with the same problem as a rule. I would have been thrilled to have the first three units work correctly out of the box. They are in the process of sending me another replacement as I write this.
> 
> As for the ESATAs, the units I have been buying cost a little less than $400 and come with a lifetime return warranty. I did nothing to cause them to start making noises and that is the only reason I returned and replaced them. I recently received two upgraded models and I have hopes of the noise problem being resolved. Consider yourself lucky to have yours function so well. I envy you.
> 
> ...


I've got four HR20-700's I got back in March. One of them is being replaced this week. Every recording on it starts with 15-30 seconds of gray screen. They said they would try to ship me a -100. I'm hopeful I get one, to see if it solves my CID problems.

Quite an equipment list! Are the 12 DVRs all currently in use? And are the Westies hooked up component or HDMI?  /s


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

I'm not sure "an inferior product" is the right phrase.
Is it not where it should be by now? I feel so.
Are there problems with manufacturing? Maybe no more than any other things made these days.
Should the software be more mature? I really think so by this time.
I don't write software, so this may be more armchair quarterbacking than fact, but I've know bright software engineers that can/have developed complete systems over six months with a team of three. Was it flawless? Not at first, but before it left the house it worked as advertised, or I didn't pass it through final test.
OK, D* needed to get this in the marketplace..fine, but we're coming down to nine months later and it's only this far... It should have been DONE by now. IMO


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## DblD_Indy (Dec 3, 2006)

Milominderbinder2 said:


> We will have a new GUI coming soon. It has to be released before VOD can come out.
> 
> You can see it here:
> 
> ...


That is super! My HR-20 will be the best ever for "photo's and music" Yea!


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## brittonx (Dec 26, 2006)

Steve said:


> I know this is a bit OT, so PM me if you like. Are you by any chance diplexing a master antenna signal to the HR20's, even though the technical specs say you can't? Curious how you have them all connected. I've got four HR20's, but because I don't have a third coax line running to 3 of them, I can only connect my roof mounted OTA antenna to one of them. When I had four HR10's, the diplexing solution worked great. I'd love to figure out a way to feed them all with an OTA signal. TIA. /s


I have tried it both ways with nearly identical results. Direct cable from the pre-amp power unit to the HR20 and diplexed into the sat feeds and extracted with Diplexers at all the H20 and HR20 devices (Diplexing via the TERK BMS58 multiswitch)


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Thx. Same way I do it now (single line) and used to do it (diplexed). I have that Terk BMS58 also, but it's not wideband and we'll have to replace it whenever the new birds start broadcasting MPEG-4 at the newer frequencies. I just learned about the SWM from VOS in another thread. That might be a way I could free up the second coax line at each location for OTA. /s


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## tiger2005 (Sep 23, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> I'm not sure "an inferior product" is the right phrase.
> Is it not where it should be by now? I feel so.
> Are there problems with manufacturing? Maybe no any more than other things made these days.
> Should the software be more mature? I really think so by this time.
> ...


Agreed. That is one of the reasons I'm very disillusioned with D* at the moment. Its taking WAY too long to get this box up to speed. Major issues like trickplay need to be resolved before they add items features such as VoD to the HR20. Shockingly this decision has to be based entirely around revenue, but the problem is that they are only irritating customers like me that continue to have issues with no relief in site.


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## bto4wd (Apr 17, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> I'm not sure "an inferior product" is the right phrase.
> Is it not where it should be by now? I feel so.
> Are there problems with manufacturing? Maybe no any more than other things made these days.
> Should the software be more mature? I really think so by this time.
> ...


So this definition doesn't fit?



dictionary.com said:


> 3.	of comparatively low grade; poor in quality; substandard: an inferior product.


Is the software "poor in quality"? "substandard"?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

bto4wd said:


> So this definition doesn't fit?
> Is the software "poor in quality"? "substandard"?


I'll leave you to your own definitions.
"Substandard" & "inferior" [to] requires a "standard". 
Which would be an individual opinion.
Is the software "defective"? 
Not on mine as it does record & play back the recordings. 
Is it as complete as it should be? 
Whether it is or not doesn't make it "poor quality".
I stated what I thought. agree or not....


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Steve said:


> I've got four HR20-700's I got back in March. One of them is being replaced this week. Every recording on it starts with 15-30 seconds of gray screen. They said they would try to ship me a -100. I'm hopeful I get one, to see if it solves my CID problems.
> 
> Quite an equipment list! Are the 12 DVRs all currently in use? And are the Westies hooked up component or HDMI?  /s


All DVRs are active. One of the Westies spends his days watching TV. I ran out of room or I would have listed everything. Surprised more people don't ask for performance opinions. For instance, those two Sony upscaler DVD players cost a third of the Samsung's price and blow the Samsungs away.

Both dogs hide when I get on the phone with D*, guess they don't like to hear the arguing.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

rich584 said:


> Both dogs hide when I get on the phone with D*, guess they don't like to hear the arguing.


Didn't Pavlov do some work on this....
He's calling D*.... time to go hide or I'm getting kicked next.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> I'll leave you to your own definitions.
> "Substandard" & "inferior" [to] requires a "standard".
> Which would be an individual opinion.
> Is the software "defective"?
> ...


I think you are right on the button with everything you have said in your last few posts. Gotta admit I am surprised. A couple two or three months ago we were arguing about this very thing. You had more patience than I did. I wanted it to work correctly out of the box.

As to your T-Bird, I had a 1960 T-Bird convertible. The trunk rose and the top folded itself into the trunk and the lid closed. Opposite for opening. Never worked right. Have not owned a Fraud since. It would bury the needle at 145 MPH though and be steady as a rock at top speed. But to keep it running, oy.

I stopped off at my Caddy dealer a couple of weeks ago and asked to see a logic diagram of the computer system. Wow. So computerized it is incredible. And mine works perfectly.

Is a DVR that much more complicated than my Caddy? Somehow I doubt that. They couldn't have found a couple of out of work automotive computer geeks to fix the software?

I don't pretend to know how to write software, but I do know how to hire people to do pretty much anything I need or want done. Those computer programmers D* uses or subcontracts out to have been trying to put out a completely functional SD or HD DVR since 2005? This is like hiring the lowest bidder to put a roof on your house, you get leaks. I truly believe that people who charge more are either crooks or very competent and it is up to the consumer to make the correct choice. "Caveat Emptor" prevails in this country.

Better Programmers + Higher Pay= Better DVRs. 
More Productive Workers + Higher Pay=Better Cars.
The automobile industry seems to understand this simple equation, why can't D* understand it?

I will disagree with you on one thing in this post. You stated that "Substandard" & "inferior" [to] requires a "standard". 
Which would be an individual opinion."

I think a benchmark could be established to make it more objective than subjective. Not really a disagreement, more of a suggestion I think we would all be wise to look at. We should establish a benchmark and hold D* to it. I think we do have that power if we wish to exercise it. Without subscribers they turn into The New York Herald Tribune (great paper, but nobody read it).


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> Didn't Pavlov do some work on this....
> He's calling D*.... time to go hide or I'm getting kicked next.


Couldn't bring myself to kick either dog. They just don't like the tone of my voice when I talk to people reading from a script, who pretty much don't have a clue what to do about my problem.

Hey, if I can digress quickly, If any of you have little kids who want puppies, a male Westie is a great choice and hypoallergenic. And friendly and smart and funny and easy to housebreak. The females tend to be a little wacky.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

bikspk said:


> It uses a version of Linux.
> The HR20-700 gets the jiggies about every half hour too.
> Is D giving you a discount while they sort out the bugs and deliver missing features?
> To each his own on what features are there. However, cable boxes, TV's, A/V receivers - all have some sleep function. HR20-700 does not. I don't give a crap about some features that others can't do without but I respect their opinion (you want Pink pillar's, have em)
> As for the variable audio out, yea, I have some line-level computer speakers plugged into one of my units and I suspect others do too. Being able to remotely control the volume in this setup through the HR20-700 would be extremely convenient. So, let me know about the features you want so I can pooh-pooh them by saying (Who needs fill_in_the_blank?).


First, by operating system, I meant the level that shows the user interface. There is more than one out there for the SA8300.

As for the HR20 getting the jiggles, I don't think so. Mine doesn't and if it did regularly, youwould see it all over this forum. But, somehow, I have seen lots of complaints about jiggles with the SA8300 (or it may be the cable itself) on the other forum that covers that box.

As for these all-important features you are claiming are the end-all (and without them the HR20 is an inferior box), you are using the box in an odd fashion. Set top boxes were intended to send picture and sound to TVs and home theaters, not directly to speakers. NONE of them were designed to be installed that way. So, you figured out an odd way to install your box and now think that should be suppored on all boxes?

BTW, I have NEVER had a cable box with a sleep timer (that includes my SA8300 as it is configured by my cable company...the only thing it does is puts the disk to sleep...while it is asleep, it still passes sound out of the box). Nor have any TiVos ever had sleep timers.

I was "poo-poo-ing" your requirements because your out-of-left-field requirements prompted you to announce that the box is an inferior product. How all-centric of you.


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## JLynn73 (Feb 8, 2007)

I just want to know how much money they saved by making this DVR 15 inches wide instead of the industry standard 17".

everyone deserves a little piece of K-Mart parked in their 20,000$ AV rack.

maybe this is payback for all the shoplifting I did as a child.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

rich584 said:


> I think a benchmark could be established to make it more objective than subjective. Not really a disagreement, more of a suggestion I think we would all be wise to look at. We should establish a benchmark and hold D* to it.
> 
> The females tend to be a little wacky.


I can't disagree with either..


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## bikspk (Apr 17, 2007)

tonyd79 said:


> First, by operating system, I meant the level that shows the user interface. There is more than one out there for the SA8300.
> 
> As for the HR20 getting the jiggles, I don't think so. Mine doesn't and if it did regularly, youwould see it all over this forum. But, somehow, I have seen lots of complaints about jiggles with the SA8300 (or it may be the cable itself) on the other forum that covers that box.
> 
> ...


I've read in these forums about others getting the "jiggies" so it's not just my box

I don't believe that you understood how I was using the speakers - they are "self powered" as in the line out from the HR20 goes to the line in of the amplifier of the speakers - same as it would for and A/V amplifier. If you don't have a newer amp/receiver with remote control capabilities then, the way the HR20 works now you have to get up off your butt and turn the dial to control the volume, same as what I have to do with my HR20 that is hooked up to powered speakers upstairs. I would not think that having an amp without a remote would be an uncommon occurrance so I tend to think that this feature would be useful. I'm not asking for direct speaker outputs, only the potential for control of the line level coming from the HR20 if necessary.

My SA8300 had a sleep timer that kicked off the power - period - including the option to have the outlet on the back of the SA8300 to power up and down with the unit.

If these features were included I would guess that there was a demand and I found them useful and feel that others would too. I don't believe that my requirements are "Out of left-field" and either you just wanted to critisize my opinion or misunderstood what I was asking for.

As for your experience, the 8300 had different software versions. The way mine was configured the eSATA port was enabled as was the firewire port. My understanding was that some cableco's used different programming that restricted use of those ports (contrary to the law btw).

I still stand by my opionion of the HR20-700 - it is an inferior product.

Maybe my opinion would change if the software alone was the issue and the box actually had the capability to do tasks and it was just a matter of time then before they were implemented. However, the snails pace of the software development for this box leads me to believe that either D is not putting forth the effort on the features I (and others) desire or, alas, the hardware cannot deal with the features.

If I can write data acquisition and control programs that deal with operating engines on dynamometers while interpreting raw digital data streams and storing them as engineering units at a high rate of speed then I would hope that D programmers would be able to deal with problems with this box.

Wait until VOD introduces another group of missing/improperly functioning features and the current set of problems gets pushed to the back burner.

Lastly, has anyone found Scotty's ashes?


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

bikspk said:


> My SA8300 had a sleep timer that kicked off the power - period - including the option to have the outlet on the back of the SA8300 to power up and down with the unit.


Well, it's a DVR, it's not meant to be turned off. It's on 24x7 even if you put it in stand by/turn it off which all it does is shut off the lights on the front of the box and kill the video outputs.



> However, the snails pace of the software development for this box leads me to believe that either D is not putting forth the effort on the features I (and others) desire or, alas, the hardware cannot deal with the features.


I know you're new so you're probably not aware of the near weekly (or at least every 2 weeks) CE/beta's that come out from DirecTV to this very forum for us to test. And they have addressed many of the top items from the Wish List (we have an official wish list here which DirecTV keeps tabs on).

Both of yours (sleep timer and volume control in the receiver) are new ones to me. Also just an FYI That I have seen neither on any of the dozen or so satellite receivers I've had in the past decade. I've only seen those two things on cable boxes. Does make your request invalid, only makes the request very rare which means they don't have much of a chance to get added. But hey, you never know, put them on the wish list.


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## bto4wd (Apr 17, 2007)

bonscott87 said:


> I know you're new so you're probably not aware of the near weekly (or at least every 2 weeks) CE/beta's that come out from DirecTV to this very forum for us to test. And they have addressed many of the top items from the Wish List (we have an official wish list here which DirecTV keeps tabs on).


I doesn't make any difference if new software versions were released daily. The HR20 was released to the public Sep of 2006. Now it's May, 2007 and according to the comments in the 15C issues thread and the 15C report card poll thread many members have a HR20 that doesn't work as a basic DVR. Missed recordings, partial recordings, lip sync problems, trick play problems, blank recordings and lockups.

In fact, you could view the number of updates being released, still not fixing problems and even creating new problems, as a fundamental problem with the HR20 or D*s development process.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> Both of yours (sleep timer and volume control in the receiver) are new ones to me. Also just an FYI That I have seen neither on any of the dozen or so satellite receivers I've had in the past decade. I've only seen those two things on cable boxes. Does make your request invalid, only makes the request very rare which means they don't have much of a chance to get added. But hey, you never know, put them on the wish list.


Since most of us are using digital audio, I don't think there is anyway to change the volume in the HR-20 through digital. I use HDMI to my TV so the TV [and the HR-20 remote] changes level fine. Going into my AV receiver is optical [digital again] so the AV receiver does it also.
Also what would a sleep timer do for it? 
For my TV sure, but it has one.
I think as the OP upgrades their system they will find these not to be an issue, which would keep them close to the bottom of the "to do list" for changes. I can think of many more things to improve the HR-20 than these that would have a much larger "fan base". FWIW


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

bto4wd said:


> I doesn't make any difference if new software versions were released daily. The HR20 was released to the public Sep of 2006. Now it's May, 2007 and according to the comments in the 15C issues thread and the 15C report card poll thread many members have a HR20 that doesn't work as a basic DVR. Missed recordings, partial recordings, lip sync problems, trick play problems, blank recordings and lockups.
> 
> In fact, you could view the number of updates being released, still not fixing problems and even creating new problems, as a fundamental problem with the HR20 or D*s development process.


I don't think you have "all of the numbers" that would support your statement. The issues thread is just that & doesn't reflect those that don't have them.
There was something "new" with the national release that has caused some problems. In another thread with lost recording & settings it showed about 4-5% had problems. While if I was one of those 4-5%, my opinion would be 100% crap, but numbers can be taken to support several positions.
Do I think the software for this is where it should be by now? No I don't, for some of the reasons you've posted. If it wasn't getting better [and me not missing a recording in months] I'd be screaming too. As it is I'm just wanting more than I've gotten so far.


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## bto4wd (Apr 17, 2007)

I've been watching this for some time now as I know eventually, once more HD content is available, I will have to make a decision to enlist for another 2 years and get a HR20 or jump ship to cable.

It's just that in reading the issues thread there are always posts that "my HR20 has been working perfectly up to this release". That worries me. Plus looking at the report card threads, the grade isn't going up. I see some ole time posters here that had been supportive of the HR20 getting fed up with the lack of progress.

And on top of that tack on D*s need to activate VOD by July. I can only imagine how huge that chunk of code is and what it could do to everything else in the system.

I'll stay sitting on the sidelines and watching the game.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

bto4wd said:


> I've been watching this for some time now as I know eventually, once more HD content is available, I will have to make a decision to enlist for another 2 years and get a HR20 or jump ship to cable.


Not sure what your cable provider options are, but I'm assuming you're watching threads re: that company's potential DVR issues as well? I ask because I'm curious if those users seem more satisfied. E.g., it appears the DBSTalk Dish users have lots and lots of issues as well.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to justify the HR20 issues.  /s


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## SlobberingHorde (Apr 20, 2007)

Quite honestly, I believe this product is inferior. Not necessarily because there is better out there - I haven't really tried many others.

However, I am a software programmer/designer for over a decade and This product screams "rush job"!

It is kinda like the PC software nowadays that is released crammed full of extra features designed for market share, none of which are all that important to most users, and is buggy and unstable doing the core functions.

I would be ecstatic if it did two things correctly: play my video/audio in realtime without dropouts and record them without video/audio dropouts.

I have had D* and the HR20-700 for 6-7 months. Audio dropouts have been a daily (hourly) problem the entire time. I have had wiring checked, dish checked, equipment replaced, uncounted software updates and the problems do not go away.

I don't care if the UI is pretty, I don't care if there are a ton of trick play features, I don't care if the show still plays in the corner when my guide is up. I just want the audio and the video to play properly, in synch, without dropouts on a reasonably consistent basis.


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## MartyS (Dec 29, 2006)

bto4wd said:


> I doesn't make any difference if new software versions were released daily. The HR20 was released to the public Sep of 2006. Now it's May, 2007 and according to the comments in the 15C issues thread and the 15C report card poll thread many members have a HR20 that doesn't work as a basic DVR. Missed recordings, partial recordings, lip sync problems, trick play problems, blank recordings and lockups.
> 
> In fact, you could view the number of updates being released, still not fixing problems and even creating new problems, as a fundamental problem with the HR20 or D*s development process.


ONe thing you need to be very careful about is making statements about satisfaction. By my guess, I would suspect that less than 5% of the HR20 owners are out here in this forum. I know that all of my friends that have the HR20 (and some with multiples) are very happy with the system. They simply have adjusted feeling that there's not an easy way to get a fix.

When I tell them about this place, well they say good... keep us updated on what D* is doing and what's coming in the new releases.


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## simonkodousek (Feb 20, 2007)

I have a Scientific Atlanta 8300HD from Time Warner and I like it a lot. Obviously D* has more channels, better picture quality, etc., etc., but for hardware the 8300HD beats all D* stuff.

~Simon


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## Tom M (Jan 4, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> I don't think you have "all of the numbers" that would support your statement. The issues thread is just that & doesn't reflect those that don't have them.
> There was something "new" with the national release that has caused some problems. In another thread with lost recording & settings it showed about 4-5% had problems. While if I was one of those 4-5%, my opinion would be 100% crap, but numbers can be taken to support several positions.
> Do I think the software for this is where it should be by now? No I don't, for some of the reasons you've posted. If it wasn't getting better [and me not missing a recording in months] I'd be screaming too. As it is I'm just wanting more than I've gotten so far.


For those that may think a problem rate of 4-5% is acceptable, it isn't. If D* wasn't their own software vendor they would be climbing down the suppliers throats screaming about increased support call volume and how much this poorly performing software was costing them everyday that it is in the field. Sadly, even with all the CE releases that are made D* doesn't seem to be taking the attitude that a real fix is urgent since a large number of problems seem to persist from release to release.

I'm still with D* and will continue to be subjected to the onslaught of upgrades hoping that things finally improve to the point that the software actually meets the published specifications.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Tom M said:


> For those that may think a problem rate of 4-5% is acceptable, it isn't. If D* wasn't their own software vendor they would be climbing down the suppliers throats screaming about increased support call volume and how much this poorly performing software was costing them everyday that it is in the field. Sadly, even with all the CE releases that are made D* doesn't seem to be taking the attitude that a real fix is urgent since a large number of problems seem to persist from release to release.
> 
> I'm still with D* and will continue to be subjected to the onslaught of upgrades hoping that things finally improve to the point that the software actually meets the published specifications.


You're replying to my post so I feel I need to post.
I never said 5% was acceptable, & I did state I though the software wasn't where it needs to be.
I don't know if you had an HR-20 last fall but the "unhappy rate" was significantly higher. Something in the latest National Release has caused more "glitches" than we seemed to have seen for the last few months.
I would have left this alone, except you replied to my posting...


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## Tom M (Jan 4, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> You're replying to my post so I feel I need to post.
> I never said 5% was acceptable, & I did state I though the software wasn't where it needs to be.
> I don't know if you had an HR-20 last fall but the "unhappy rate" was significantly higher. Something in the latest National Release has caused more "glitches" than we seemed to have seen for the last few months.
> I would have left this alone, except you replied to my posting...


I didn't mean to imply that you thought that the 4-5% rate was acceptable so if that's the way it came across that's my error. However there seems to be quite a few members here that think that simply because they personally haven't encountered any problems that things are hunky dory even though the product still doesn't do what's been promised.

Do I think the HR20 is a POS? No. I do think that if this were any other piece of consumer electronics that there would likely be a lot more people vocalizing their disapproval over how things are being implemented.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Tom M said:


> I didn't mean to imply that you thought that the 4-5% rate was acceptable so if that's the way it came across that's my error. However there seems to be quite a few members here that think that simply because they personally haven't encountered any problems that things are hunky dory even though the product still doesn't do what's been promised.
> 
> Do I think the HR20 is a POS? No. I do think that if this were any other piece of consumer electronics that there would likely be a lot more people vocalizing their disapproval over how things are being implemented.


Thank you as "my" error rate is less than 1%, but I don't do brain surgery either as I'd still hate to be that 1%.
I've been on both sides. It took several months before mine started to behave [while hearing about others with no problems], then several months ago, mine started to behave.
I think most do understand there are two sides, but there was so much improvement around Jan/Feb that "we" kind of thought we were over the "hump".
The last couple of test releases & the current National Release does seem to have brought back some of the old problems [for some].
I'm not defending this, but there are many things that all add to the problems: 
1) some poorly made hardware [not all], 
2) some lame installers, 
3) some misinformed CSRs, 
4) many different user setups 
5) users using the equipment differently.
6) just the state of HDTV these days,
7) it's not analog TV so there is a completely new learning curve, that some may never get.
Should D* do a better job? You bet, but where do you find "what's what" out of all of this?


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## bikspk (Apr 17, 2007)

bonscott87 said:


> Well, it's a DVR, it's not meant to be turned off. It's on 24x7 even if you put it in stand by/turn it off which all it does is shut off the lights on the front of the box and kill the video outputs.


I completely understand what OFF means with a DVR - that is - STANDBY - and the hard disk and the like keep on going and it consumes 34 watts just like when its on (or something).
The concept of a sleep timer would be to select a time at which you wanted to VIDEO on your TV/MONITOR to go off and the AUDIO on your TV/AMPLIFIER to go off. I could care less if the hard drive keeps spinning and blue lights stay on or go off. I just want some peace and quiet so I can sleep. I'm not trying to save energy.



bonscott87 said:


> I know you're new so you're probably not aware of the near weekly (or at least every 2 weeks) CE/beta's that come out from DirecTV to this very forum for us to test. And they have addressed many of the top items from the Wish List (we have an official wish list here which DirecTV keeps tabs on).


You don't know that I'm new. I've downloaded at least 3 CE versions.
They need to first address the "Missing Promised Features" first, then they can work on VOD and UI changes.



bonscott87 said:


> Both of yours (sleep timer and volume control in the receiver) are new ones to me. Also just an FYI That I have seen neither on any of the dozen or so satellite receivers I've had in the past decade. I've only seen those two things on cable boxes. Does make your request invalid, only makes the request very rare which means they don't have much of a chance to get added. But hey, you never know, put them on the wish list.


I can't speak for volume control but the folks at Samsung (my tv), Pioneer (my A/V receiver), and Sony and Sanyo (my last 2 TV's) all saw the sleep functionality as worthy of being put in their units. Maybe that's not a representative list though ;-)


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## MartyS (Dec 29, 2006)

simonkodousek said:


> I have a Scientific Atlanta 8300HD from Time Warner and I like it a lot. Obviously D* has more channels, better picture quality, etc., etc., but for hardware the 8300HD beats all D* stuff.
> 
> ~Simon


Depends on your carrier.. I have the 8300 HD from Adelphia, now Comcast. The box has virtually NO features, because of the carrier. No first run/re-run, no program search, no HD on Demand, miserable program guide, etc.... not the boxes fault, but Comcast/Adelphia's fault.

If they ever fixed it, I'd probably just keep D* for the NFL ticket.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

bikspk said:


> I can't speak for volume control but the folks at Samsung (my tv), Pioneer (my A/V receiver), and Sony and Sanyo (my last 2 TV's) all saw the sleep functionality as worthy of being put in their units. Maybe that's not a representative list though ;-)


99% of displays have sleep timers... it's a basic TV function. That doesn't mean that every piece of A/V gear should have one. Just my .02. /s


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

bikspk said:


> I completely understand what OFF means with a DVR - that is - STANDBY - and the hard disk and the like keep on going and it consumes 34 watts just like when its on (or something).
> The concept of a sleep timer would be to select a time at which you wanted to VIDEO on your TV/MONITOR to go off and the AUDIO on your TV/AMPLIFIER to go off. I could care less if the hard drive keeps spinning and blue lights stay on or go off. I just want some peace and quiet so I can sleep. I'm not trying to save energy.....
> 
> ......I can't speak for volume control but the folks at Samsung (my tv), Pioneer (my A/V receiver), and Sony and Sanyo (my last 2 TV's) all saw the sleep functionality as worthy of being put in their units. Maybe that's not a representative list though ;-)


So, if you "just want some peace and quiet" so you can sleep, and you TV already has the feature, what is the point of demanding it from DirecTV's DVR? Could it be a complaint for the sake of complaining?


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

bikspk said:


> I can't speak for volume control but the folks at Samsung (my tv), Pioneer (my A/V receiver), and Sony and Sanyo (my last 2 TV's) all saw the sleep functionality as worthy of being put in their units. Maybe that's not a representative list though ;-)


All I'm telling you is that it's just not a feature found on any DirecTV receiver that I am aware of for the past 11 years. I don't think any Dish receiver has it either.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> All I'm telling you is that it's just not a feature found on any DirecTV receiver that I am aware of for the past 11 years. I don't think any Dish receiver has it either.


Or any Tivo, to my knowledge. /s


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

SlobberingHorde said:


> Quite honestly, I believe this product is inferior. Not necessarily because there is better out there - I haven't really tried many others.
> 
> However, I am a software programmer/designer for over a decade and This product screams "rush job"!
> 
> ...


Well said! Now imagine you are a 70 year old person who just wants to record in HD and playback those recordings. If YOU are having trouble and I am having trouble and VOS is beginning to complain (finally), how are technically challenged people to deal with this? The box does not state that the DVR does not and will not work correctly. That would be factual and no one could complain.

So, what is your learned opinion of the software programmers D* is using to try to put out a fully functional DVR? And could you comment more fully on the time frame that this thing is on. Is there an end to this? There can be only so much you can do with a computer that is basically dedicated to one task.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

MartyS said:


> ONe thing you need to be very careful about is making statements about satisfaction. By my guess, I would suspect that less than 5% of the HR20 owners are out here in this forum. I know that all of my friends that have the HR20 (and some with multiples) are very happy with the system. They simply have adjusted feeling that there's not an easy way to get a fix.
> 
> When I tell them about this place, well they say good... keep us updated on what D* is doing and what's coming in the new releases.


Those people who will accept anything as long as it seems to work are the same people that would have voted for Nixon. None of them owned a Beta-Max and most of them don't have a clue about Macs. Cattle.

I asked my car mechanic and friend of 20 years what kind of car to buy my wife after she announced the new Caddy was too big for her. I told him I was thinking of buying a Pontiac G6 or a Chevy Impala, or a Buick. Of the three, he said he would make the most money from the Chevy and very little from the other two. I consider myself extremely fortunate to have someone like this to go to when I need info on major purchases. Who do you go to to ask questions concerning DVRs? D*, or a salesman at Circuit making a couple of bucks above minimum wage? Or perhaps one of D*'s "professional installers/troubleshooters"?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

rich584 said:


> Who do you go to to ask questions concerning DVRs? D*, or a salesman at Circuit making a couple of bucks above minimum wage? Or perhaps one of D*'s "professional installers/troubleshooters"?


Same answer for when Nixon was on the ticket: "none of the above".


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## simonkodousek (Feb 20, 2007)

MartyS said:


> Depends on your carrier.. I have the 8300 HD from Adelphia, now Comcast. The box has virtually NO features, because of the carrier. No first run/re-run, no program search, no HD on Demand, miserable program guide, etc.... not the boxes fault, but Comcast/Adelphia's fault.
> 
> If they ever fixed it, I'd probably just keep D* for the NFL ticket.


Mine has many many features, almost all that the HR-20 has to offer.

~Simon


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

So you ever wonder about someone that posts on a HR-20 forum that doesn't have any DirecTV equipment?


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## bikspk (Apr 17, 2007)

Titan25 said:


> So, if you "just want some peace and quiet" so you can sleep, and you TV already has the feature, what is the point of demanding it from DirecTV's DVR? Could it be a complaint for the sake of complaining?


No, not a complaint for the sake of complaining.

Back in the day when you had a standalone TV or maybe a TV with a cable box, you could just set the sleep timer on the TV and that would suffice. Now, we have Sat/Cable box with digital video going to the TV and digital audio going to an A/V receiver so "peace and quiet" involves setting the sleep timer on the TV and on the A/V. It would just be more convenient if the piece of equipment originating the signal would shut off its output signals. The same goes for audio - control the line-out to the A/V receiver and now you don't need to do much of anything but turn everything on.

I'm spending a lot of time on the sleep timer which isn't the most important feature to me. Have to reiterate:

DLB?
PIP?
CIR?
2 Hours in EPG?

Interesting that, if you browse the Dish VIP forums their issues seem minor compared to the ones you see here (don't jump on me too hard, I just looked at the "wish list" for one of the VIP units and it seemed minor by comparison).


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

bikspk said:


> Interesting that, if you browse the Dish VIP forums their issues seem minor compared to the ones you see here (don't jump on me too hard, I just looked at the "wish list" for one of the VIP units and it seemed minor by comparison).


It's also a year older and really Dish has been doing their own DVRs for many years (and had many failures). The VIP line is really the first one that was "ok" for the most part at release (but again is older then the HR20).

HR20 by contrast is DirecTV's first time doing it on their own.

No excuse there but need to compare apples to apples. The horror stores of Dish DVRs are legend.


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## bikspk (Apr 17, 2007)

bonscott87 said:


> No excuse there but need to compare apples to apples.


ViP 622 is latest/greatest HD DVR from Dish
HR20-700 is latest/greatest HD DVR from DirecTV

Looks like apples to me.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

bikspk said:


> ViP 622 is latest/greatest HD DVR from Dish
> HR20-700 is latest/greatest HD DVR from DirecTV
> 
> Looks like apples to me.


You didn't quite understand. The Dish product 622 is a year older then the HR20. Thus a year more mature. And it was Dish's first DVR in a decade that wasn't a total piece of crud upon release (but still had issues, as all receivers do). They've been practicing for a while.


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## bto4wd (Apr 17, 2007)

bonscott87 said:


> You didn't quite understand. The Dish product 622 is a year older then the HR20. Thus a year more mature. And it was Dish's first DVR in a decade that wasn't a total piece of crud upon release (but still had issues, as all receivers do). They've been practicing for a while.


The R15 is a year older than the HR20. Is that a more mature DVR? :eek2:


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

bto4wd said:


> The R15 is a year older than the HR20. Is that a more mature DVR? :eek2:


No, it's an NDS box. HR20 is the first one done by DirecTV in house. The comparison is to the Dish in house DVR.


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## bto4wd (Apr 17, 2007)

bonscott87 said:


> No, it's an NDS box. HR20 is the first one done by DirecTV in house. The comparison is to the Dish in house DVR.


Technically the OP was comparing it to his SA8300. Others started comparing it to the VIP.


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## bikspk (Apr 17, 2007)

I'm having trouble understanding why people are being apologists when it comes to the HR20-700?

I subscribed to DirectTV for two reasons:
1) Comcast took over the Adelphia operation in our area and upped the prices and reduced services
2) DirecTV provides the programming (FSC, GolTV, Setanta) that I desire when no one else does

I have no regrets about signing up for D and I got the HR20-700 because I wanted DVR functionality.

I'm just stating that, based on my usage and expectations, the HR20-700 (in it's current state/software release) is inferior compared to what I had before (8300HD).

Am I supposed to give DirecTV a break because this is their first in-house DVR?
Am I supposed to give DirecTV a break when the unit doesn't do what it was advertised?
Am I supposed to give DirecTV a break when the unit has obvious faults?

No - I'm going to keep up the pressure to fix what is wrong and hold them to the standards of other DVR's on the market.


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## finaldiet (Jun 13, 2006)

I have 2 HR20's and have had very little problems with them, usually something I did wrong or didn't understand. Been on this forum for a while now and I'm wondering if there's a small percentage of people with problems and if they're all on this forum. Have a lot of friends with DTV DVR'S and they say they don't have any problems. I do this to help them out if they do have problems and I know they are not very tech savvy. I'm a 66 year old senior and you folks( as in other forums) keep me interested in tech stuff. Keep up the good work guys, even if we all don't agree, I believe together we can figure out how to make the HR20 better DVR.


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## bto4wd (Apr 17, 2007)

bikspk said:


> I'm having trouble understanding why people are being apologists when it comes to the HR20-700?
> 
> I subscribed to DirectTV for two reasons:
> 1) Comcast took over the Adelphia operation in our area and upped the prices and reduced services
> ...


I couldn't agree more. Keeping the pressure on now will hopefully mean I'll have a dependable HD DVR to go to when D* turns on more HD channels. I don't think one should be forced to have a backup DVR recording all shows their HR20 is set to record because of it's lack of stability.


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## bikspk (Apr 17, 2007)

finaldiet said:


> I have 2 HR20's and have had very little problems with them, usually something I did wrong or didn't understand. Been on this forum for a while now and I'm wondering if there's a small percentage of people with problems and if they're all on this forum. Have a lot of friends with DTV DVR'S and they say they don't have any problems. I do this to help them out if they do have problems and I know they are not very tech savvy. I'm a 66 year old senior and you folks( as in other forums) keep me interested in tech stuff. Keep up the good work guys, even if we all don't agree, I believe together we can figure out how to make the HR20 better DVR.


I think that it is great that you don't have any problems with your units and are willing to help out others. I'm just trying to point out the faults with the HR20 based on my prior experience. Hopefully, the HR20 will become a better piece of equipment as time goes on.

Let's just hope that the existing issues get resolved and don't get swept under the rug as VOD and the like come into play.


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