# ViP 622 early adopters - how can we get more credit back?



## Chandu (Oct 3, 2005)

Well ViP 622 early adopters, we paid $299 for the box and from today the price has dropped to $199. On top of that they're giving away additional $100 back, spread out over 10 months. In summary, we're paying $200 more than if we had signed up today. We have helped DISH test their new product and getting out majority of the bugs. I think we have a case for asking DISH to treat us fairly, just like new customers. How should we go about this? Of course, I'm thinking of speaking to a CSR and negotiating individually. Those of us who haven't signed up for any commitment have a stronger case of using the termination ploy. But on top of everyone negotiating individually, is there scope for collective negotiation?


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

Get over it!


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## Jerry G (Jul 12, 2003)

Jim5506 said:


> Get over it!


Agreed. It's the nature of life and business. If someone can't accept that, then they should never buy anything.


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## lakebum431 (Jun 30, 2005)

But, the new car I bought last month is worth 6k less now that I've used it for a month. It isn't fair. Somebody give me something.


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

Way back when my first VCR cost $1,400 and had few features. I can get one today with full features for around $50. That is how it is with low production vs. mass production. 

I wound not be surprised if the price of new 622 continues to fall. 

I concur with Jim5506. How upset will you get when E* replaces like receivers with the ViP622/211 for free in the next year or so? We all could have waited but we didn't.


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## normang (Nov 14, 2002)

Waaa... my new HDTV that I bought last month is now a $500-1000 less at Best Buy because of the new HDTV models that just come out and the sales guy didn't warn me they were coming and I can't return it now and and and.... 

Its really time to move on over this stuff, if you are the first out the gate for 'any' new tech, your going to pay more for it. I just wish programming packages were a little more comprehensive,, So I could pay for what I would watch and not the dozens of channels I never pay any attention to..


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

It's time for this theard to go bye - bye. It is just a sour grapes commentary from those that paid a bit more than others. The price may continue to lower gradually over time but you have had the equipment long before those new guys. Think of how much more enjoyment you will have had than them.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Time Travel?


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## normang (Nov 14, 2002)

HDMe said:


> Time Travel? )


That's it, we'll borrow Doctor Who's Tardis and go back to get a better deal, or go forward and see what the best deal is, or when new gear is coming...


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## Jason Nipp (Jun 10, 2004)

There's always a price to pay for having the latest and greatest gizmo. This is nothing new. You wanted to be one of the exclusive first 622er's, and if in your many years of life did not expect supply and demand pricing to be an "early" (show off my new toy to the friends and neighbors) "adopter", it's certainly not Dish's fault. 

This is no different than paying over window sticker for a new model year car that just hit the lots, or paying a grand to have a PS3 before juniors friends have one.

Bragging rights cost $.


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## Wrecker06 (May 23, 2006)

email [email protected]

I did and asked for the additional credit back since I've only been with dish for less than a month and have nothing but problems... (on my 3rd 622, bad install, defective heads on the dish according to the 2nd tech to come out, local HD issues with ABC & NBC that make them pretty much unwatchable, and my 622 is still rebooting about 4 times a day, etc.)... I received a response about 2 hours later and was given a free month of my platinum service and a $100.00 credit for the 622.

I explained that I have faith that Dish can correct the issues that a large number of people are having with their 622's and alot of people in the SF Bay area are having w/ their HD Locals. I explained that I was a charter subscriber of DirecTv and based on the promises made by the telemarketer who called me offering the "superior picture quality and 20+ HD channels" I switched to Dish Network and that I want to stay, but the ball is in their court. I spend over $200.00 on programming.

I also emailed them a copy of the Comcast ad wanting Dish network subs to switch. (They specifically mentioned Dish's issues with the 622 and poor HD quality with the Locals).


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

Wrecker06 said:


> email [email protected]
> 
> I did and asked for the additional credit back since I've only been with dish for less than a month and have nothing but problems... (on my 3rd 622, bad install, defective heads on the dish according to the 2nd tech to come out, local HD issues with ABC & NBC that make them pretty much unwatchable, and my 622 is still rebooting about 4 times a day, etc.)... I received a response about 2 hours later and was given a free month of my platinum service and a $100.00 credit for the 622.
> 
> ...


What you have gotten is a courtesy credit due to the problems you are having. It is to help keep customers satisfied and not gripping to their friends. Glad you got it. Why don't you post the comcast info that you sent into to Dish? It would be nice to see the BS Comcast marketing is coming up with.


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## Mikef5 (Apr 13, 2006)

whatchel1 said:


> What you have gotten is a courtesy credit due to the problems you are having. It is to help keep customers satisfied and not gripping to their friends. Glad you got it. Why don't you post the comcast info that you sent into to Dish? It would be nice to see the BS Comcast marketing is coming up with.


whatchel,
Happened to see that you're from Texas, this link is the cable companies way of trying to stop the telco's from operating in California, their repsonse to assembly bill 2987. I find it disturbing that they actually try to equate Texans and Enron like that.
Here's the link http://www.tvforall.org/
I think Comcast is afraid of the competition this would bring to California and they should be ashamed for using scare tactics like that.

Laters,
Mikef5


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

Mikef5 said:


> whatchel,
> Happened to see that you're from Texas, this link is the cable companies way of trying to stop the telco's from operating in California, their repsonse to assembly bill 2987. I find it disturbing that they actually try to equate Texans and Enron like that.
> Here's the link http://www.tvforall.org/
> I think Comcast is afraid of the competition this would bring to California and they should be ashamed for using scare tactics like that.
> ...


Yea I'm in Texas although in the past decade I have lived in Ca twice. Some in the inland empire of the LA area some in Eureka (place shoud be named can't get there from here). I also lived in Washington state (Seattle & Tacoma area). I also lived in Medford, Or during this time period. Any way I have been thru your neck of the woods as well.


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## donjoy44 (Jun 7, 2006)

Chandu said:


> Well ViP 622 early adopters, we paid $299 for the box and from today the price has dropped to $199. On top of that they're giving away additional $100 back, spread out over 10 months. In summary, we're paying $200 more than if we had signed up today. We have helped DISH test their new product and getting out majority of the bugs. I think we have a case for asking DISH to treat us fairly, just like new customers. How should we go about this? Of course, I'm thinking of speaking to a CSR and negotiating individually. Those of us who haven't signed up for any commitment have a stronger case of using the termination ploy. But on top of everyone negotiating individually, is there scope for collective negotiation?


I ordered the 622 on june 5th upgrading from 942I was told it was 299.00 with 200.00 credited to my bill when i return 942 The csr gave me a appointment of july2 2006 because they have no dp44 available. i have been on the phone with them stating all the talk of new deals ie : no 99.00 installation fee , i was able to get the csr to note my account that when i have the installation done i will get a 99.00 credit i ask for his name and id # so im happy with this ,but I was wondering are people having the same problem with installation dates I need a second dish 500 installed to get sat 61.5 and they said I need a dp44 instead of a dp34


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## Wicker 54 (May 7, 2006)

Chandu said:


> Well ViP 622 early adopters, we paid $299 for the box and from today the price has dropped to $199. On top of that they're giving away additional $100 back, spread out over 10 months. In summary, we're paying $200 more than if we had signed up today. We have helped DISH test their new product and getting out majority of the bugs. I think we have a case for asking DISH to treat us fairly, just like new customers. How should we go about this? Of course, I'm thinking of speaking to a CSR and negotiating individually. Those of us who haven't signed up for any commitment have a stronger case of using the termination ploy. But on top of everyone negotiating individually, is there scope for collective negotiation?


Do like i am going to do.... Get back on cable... :lol:


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

Wicker 54 said:


> Do like i am going to do.... Get back on cable.


Does you cable company have anywhere near the amount of HD channels that DISH has? Mine sure doesn't.

Right now, for anyone that is really serious about HD, DISH Network is your best choice.


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## Matthewmon (Jun 8, 2006)

i ordered the dish network and 622 dvr on June 7th and the dvr cost 299, they aren't even coming to hook up my dish network until next Monday, what should I do it sucks to wast $100 like that just because i ordered 2 days earlier, i could have put that $100 on a dvd player or something else?


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

Matthewmon said:


> i ordered the dish network and 622 dvr on June 7th and the dvr cost 299, they aren't even coming to hook up my dish network until next Monday, what should I do it sucks to wast $100 like that just because i ordered 2 days earlier, i could have put that $100 on a dvd player or something else?


Maybe if U email [email protected] it would do something about the price. On the other hand though it is a situation of timing. If you buy a car 2 days before the new model comes out U get charged a higher price for that. So U may be stuck with paying the higher price.


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## CoolGui (Feb 9, 2006)

whatchel1 said:


> Maybe if U email [email protected] it would do something about the price. On the other hand though it is a situation of timing. If you buy a car 2 days before the new model comes out U get charged a higher price for that. So U may be stuck with paying the higher price.


Well I got mine installed on June 7th exactly 2 days before they announced the new pricing. I wrote customer service and they didn't have anything good to say, so I replied and copied [email protected] and the guy gave me a $100 credit. Considering if I had known this was happening June 7th I would have cancelled the install and redid the order (if that was an option). I'm pretty happy that they did this for me. No word about the $100 HD credit over 10 months, but even without that at least they met me half way.

-John


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## jrb531 (May 29, 2004)

Just because Dish "can" do it does not make it right. I fully expected the 622 to drop in price after maybe a year. This soon is an utter insult to those of us who have been basically testing the new gear as well as having to put up with installers who were testing their new installs on us LOL.

IMHO the $100 credit is the least they can do. I too will keep this in mind when my 18 (now 16 month) contract is up.

Dish knew this was coming and if they were open and honest with us most of us would have waited a month or two to save $200!

Dish can do anything they want and I'll have to take it... at least for 16 more months.

Is this the kind of PR that Dish wants? The number of early (Read: pissed off) adopters of 622 that are affected by this may be small in number but they also tend to be those who spend more and promote Dish more to others.

I'll end this now and take my ball and go home and pout LOL.

This is not a matter of me just being upset about $200 but rather the reason why. Dish withheld information. Had they been honest about their timetable not only in regard to the $200 drop but also the drop in price of the 622 to outright buy it many of us would have either waited or purchased the 622.

-JB


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

jrb531 said:


> This is not a matter of me just being upset about $200 but rather the reason why. Dish withheld information. Had they been honest about their timetable not only in regard to the $200 drop but also the drop in price of the 622 to outright buy it many of us would have either waited or purchased the 622.


Firstly, we have no idea if this was a Dish plan all along, or something that just materialized over the course of time since the initial release.

Secondly, and most importantly, this will ALWAYS be true of almost everything you will ever buy.

People that are really mad about this should just never buy anything ever again, because it will always happen that anything you buy will be cheaper, sometimes significantly, within 6 months (it has been about 4 months now since the Feb release of these receivers).


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## dsanbo (Nov 25, 2005)

HDMe said:


> Firstly, we have no idea if this was a Dish plan all along, or something that just materialized over the course of time since the initial release.
> 
> Secondly, and most importantly, this will ALWAYS be true of almost everything you will ever buy.
> 
> People that are really mad about this should just never buy anything ever again, because it will always happen that anything you buy will be cheaper, sometimes significantly, within 6 months (it has been about 4 months now since the Feb release of these receivers).


Yeah....I'm still waitin' fer the price o' them Edsels to go down....Nice car, just too da*m pricey....!:lol:


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## jrb531 (May 29, 2004)

HDMe said:


> Firstly, we have no idea if this was a Dish plan all along, or something that just materialized over the course of time since the initial release.
> 
> Secondly, and most importantly, this will ALWAYS be true of almost everything you will ever buy.
> 
> People that are really mad about this should just never buy anything ever again, because it will always happen that anything you buy will be cheaper, sometimes significantly, within 6 months (it has been about 4 months now since the Feb release of these receivers).


It's the "very" short time frame that makes it hard to believe that this was just some last minute change of heart by Dish. We're talking about two months here and not two years.

IMHO what happened is that Dish was ready to drop the price once they evaluated sales... IE see how many will "bite" at the higher price and once the numbers start to fall we'll move to price plan two.

Well this happened pretty darn fast and two months = $200? Not in my book.

Now if you want to think that this was just Mr. Dish popping in after a fun weekend and saying "let's drop the price $200... sure that's the ticket" then there is nothing I can think or do to change your mind.

In my mind this was planned and many people would have waited if we were only talking a month or two.

Am I crying over spilled milk? Maybe but at least I'm being honest 

-JB


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Bottom line is... even IF it were planned... what's the complaint? Virtually all technology is cheaper eventually. Why do you think stores like Best Buy only have a 30-day price matching guarantee? Because they will probably be dropping the prices the next month and they don't want to get in a vicious cycle of having to continually give people refunds!

Rule of thumb is... Always pay what you feel something is worth. Even if it is cheaper later, if you don't pay more than you think it is worth then you never feel cheated.


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## jrb531 (May 29, 2004)

HDMe said:


> Bottom line is... even IF it were planned... what's the complaint? Virtually all technology is cheaper eventually. Why do you think stores like Best Buy only have a 30-day price matching guarantee? Because they will probably be dropping the prices the next month and they don't want to get in a vicious cycle of having to continually give people refunds!
> 
> Rule of thumb is... Always pay what you feel something is worth. Even if it is cheaper later, if you don't pay more than you think it is worth then you never feel cheated.


The difference is that most things do not drop as fast as this. Believe me... if this was only $50 or heck ever $100 I would not say boo but $299 to $99 in two months for something brand new?

Grrrrrr

-JB


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## normang (Nov 14, 2002)

jrb531 said:


> The difference is that most things do not drop as fast as this. Believe me... if this was only $50 or heck ever $100 I would not say boo but $299 to $99 in two months for something brand new? -JB


Yes, it can. I've seen computers drop in price in just weeks, TV sets drop in price, all sort of electronics drop like crazy in short order.. My first CD-RW drive was $200, within a couple months, those drives were sellling for almost $100 less..

If there is no value in getting it right away and having the ability to use new technology, why didn't you just wait.. Electronics pricing is impossible to gauge.. I think its time to get over it and move on, enjoy your 622 and stop worrying about the cost, you got it when you wanted it, and paid what it cost to get it then...


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## jrb531 (May 29, 2004)

normang said:


> Yes, it can. I've seen computers drop in price in just weeks, TV sets drop in price, all sort of electronics drop like crazy in short order.. My first CD-RW drive was $200, within a couple months, those drives were sellling for almost $100 less..
> 
> If there is no value in getting it right away and having the ability to use new technology, why didn't you just wait.. Electronics pricing is impossible to gauge.. I think its time to get over it and move on, enjoy your 622 and stop worrying about the cost, you got it when you wanted it, and paid what it cost to get it then...


Sure things drop sharply but seldom when new tech comes out does it drop so fast. The older tech takes a drop when new tech comes out but $299 to $99 is norm? Where?

The 622 was brand spankin new and for something like this to drop so fast so soon is "not" the norm.

Why can't you just admit that this was a bit sudden? I am not making as big of a deal of it as you think. I know there is nothing I can do about it. I also know that in the future, once my contract is up, that Dish lost a loyal and avid supporter due to this.

Yes I got what I wanted but I'm left with a bad taste in my mouth... a feeling of being taken for a ride by Dish.

-JB


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## normang (Nov 14, 2002)

jrb531 said:


> Sure things drop sharply but seldom when new tech comes out does it drop so fast. The older tech takes a drop when new tech comes out but $299 to $99 is norm? Where?
> 
> The 622 was brand spankin new and for something like this to drop so fast so soon is "not" the norm.
> 
> ...


Don't have to admit anything, if I want to go out and "buy" a 622, they are still *$499

*your getting a lease price, you don't own that receiver.. If your so disgusted, try giving it back and cancelling and then see what it will cost you. If you can't understand the so so fine print when you enter into an agreement to get something, than perhaps you shouldn't be buying anything... and Dish or anyone that writes the fine print can change that anytime they want for most any reason they want.

If a car is in hot demand, people will pay over invoice to get one, because its cool. Same with tech. if all of a sudden demand for cool car drops, and dealers start marking them down perhaps in the $1000's of dollars and you just got one, are you going to run back to the dealer and demand some of your money back, and if you did, what do you think that dealer is going to tell you??


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## jrb531 (May 29, 2004)

normang said:


> Don't have to admit anything, if I want to go out and "buy" a 622, they are still *$499
> 
> *your getting a lease price, you don't own that receiver.. If your so disgusted, try giving it back and cancelling and then see what it will cost you. If you can't understand the so so fine print when you enter into an agreement to get something, than perhaps you shouldn't be buying anything... and Dish or anyone that writes the fine print can change that anytime they want for most any reason they want.
> 
> If a car is in hot demand, people will pay over invoice to get one, because its cool. Same with tech. if all of a sudden demand for cool car drops, and dealers start marking them down perhaps in the $1000's of dollars and you just got one, are you going to run back to the dealer and demand some of your money back, and if you did, what do you think that dealer is going to tell you??


But they were NOT $499 two months ago! That price dropped also.

I swear it seems that people just like to argue for the sake of it.

All I did was express my disatisfaction with Dish dropping the price drastically in only two months after a new product release which goes against normal electronics past experiences.

Yes I know they technically did nothing wrong.
Yes I know that they were well within their right to charge whatever they wanted.

My point was, and is, that this left a bad taste in my mouth because of the severity of the drop in such a short time.

I know there always has to be people who buy right before a drop but $299 to $99 within months after brand new tech comes out (the purchase price dropped about the same I think) is strange.

Usually with tech when new tech comes out the old tech drops in price.

Let's just agree to disagree ok? You are not going to convince me to be happy paying $299 to rent something that two months later costs $99 and I'm not going to convince you that such a drop, while legal in every sence, still stinks.

*smiles*

-JB


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## tomcrown1 (Jan 16, 2006)

I wonder does the drop in price have to do with the TIVO case?? If Dish can get 70% usage on the vIP622 can they then state in their next trail that the VIP622 is not anywere near TIVO thus making their copyright win mute?? I wonder??


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## jrb531 (May 29, 2004)

tomcrown1 said:


> I wonder does the drop in price have to do with the TIVO case?? If Dish can get 70% usage on the vIP622 can they then state in their next trail that the VIP622 is not anywere near TIVO thus making their copyright win mute?? I wonder??


Hmmm or maybe they are trying to get the installed base up in case some silly judge orders them to stop selling them.

I had forgotten about the Tivo jerks... great point!

-JB


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## Charise (Jan 25, 2004)

While I had thought about the possible effect of the Tivo lawsuit, I still agree with JB, a $200 price drop on a $299 product within 2.5 months (for me) is a lot to swallow. I fully expected a drop of maybe $100 within 6 months, but I am decidedly unhappy about this turn of events.

I would have gladly waited. Heck, I'd already waited 2 years to get a good HD DVR, and I didn't jump on the 942 when they reduced the price, because there were already rumors of the 622 being released. No way did I imagine the price would drop so low so fast for those who did NOT already have a 921 or 942.

If the lowered price would have been restricted to those who already had HD, I wouldn't be so disappointed, but, there it is--I am disappointed!


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## debpasc (Oct 20, 2005)

This debate has been ongoing for some time and I don't want to pump any more life into it than it already has, but I will go on record as agreeing with all of those that are so upset about paying the $99 install fee and not getting the $100 rebate spread over 10 months for the HD programming upgrade. While I understand about the cost of getting new tech stuff early, as a retired business person I just can't understand a company that provides its customers with a dis-incentive to be the first to buy new equipment and programming. Dish has created a mind set in all of us, the early adopters and the late comers that waiting will be rewarded. This is so unlike any other business model. Something else has to be working here -- maybe it is creating some user population numbers critical to the litigation. I don't know. But now I know waiting a couple of months can save me $199.


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## Rick_R (Sep 1, 2004)

I bought my Toshiba 65" widescreen HDTV im August of 2000 for $5100. Befiore Costco discontinued it they sold the latest model Toshiba 65" HDTV for $1499. This new unit also included HDMI and other newer features. But then I have been enjoying HDTV for 6 years. I would sure hate to have not had those years of enjoyment.

The price reduction of the 622 was expected... maybe a little quick but expected.

Rick R


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## normang (Nov 14, 2002)

I don't think this is unprecedented.. While I cannot cite a specific instance of a product dropping in price a couple hundred in 4-5 months, which its actually been, not 2 or 3.. 

I can understand to some degree that you think you got a short end of the stick, but many have had their 622 for months.. Getting the new channels no one else has unless they have a VIP receiver.. that has to be worth something..


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

To those who say "If I'd known it would only be a month or two I would have waited"... think about it... Even IF this was a plan from the beginning, why on earth would a company announce that? IF you knew a price drop was coming you'd never buy it.

This is one of those infinite loop kind of things where if you always waited you'd never have anything.

I just don't understand why all the hoopla from folks who had to jump on the bandwagon from day one complaining because they paid the going rate at that time. Even the Dish folks had a big banner saying "good things come to those who wait" encouraging people to wait several months! What more can they do?


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## Charise (Jan 25, 2004)

Yes, I knew the price would eventually be reduced. Getting the 622 installed at the end of February, though I ordered February 1, to the date this was announced was just over 3 months for me--not 4-5 month.

The key word there was "eventually." I know that 3.5 months wasn't worth $200 to me.

I'd be pleased if they'd extend the $10/month for 10 months discount on programming, which they could easily do. To pay an extra $100 for that time wouldn't pain me so much. But I am not obsessing about this. As I said, I am disappointed with their choice, not angry.

But I DO get it--why should they? They already have my business. Of course, I could lower my programming too. Then they wouldn't have gained much, would they?


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

When McDonald's and Burger King and Wendy's all introduced their dollar menus... did all you folks go back and complain about the burgers and fries you'd bought there the past month?

Seriously... there are some way more serious things in the world worth worrying and complaining about. For that matter, there are far more important problems to complain to Dish about than how they dropped the price on their hardware this month.


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## jrb531 (May 29, 2004)

HDMe said:


> When McDonald's and Burger King and Wendy's all introduced their dollar menus... did all you folks go back and complain about the burgers and fries you'd bought there the past month?
> 
> Seriously... there are some way more serious things in the world worth worrying and complaining about. For that matter, there are far more important problems to complain to Dish about than how they dropped the price on their hardware this month.


Let's not get silly here.

Why is it that I can see your side but you not mine?

Brand new tech just does not drop from $299 to $99 in 2-3 months.

Note the "new tech" part.

We are not talking about something that was on the shelf for a long time that was reduced in price because it was being phased out.

This was new tech.

If this was a normal course of action the price would "slowly" drop as the item got older.

There is some forces at work here behind the scenes that caused Dish to make such a drastic reduction. I am so very glad that you have no issues paying an extra $200 for a few extra channels for 2-3 months.

I respect your feelings that you got your money's worth... I, and at least a few others, feel we were mislead.

Yes early adopters pay more but I hardly would call 2-3 months early LOL.

Early adopters test the new stuff. We deal with bugs and glitches, installers who are testing the new installs on us. Programming that is often so new that it's of little value as well as the really sour taste I still have in my mouth about having to pay a PVR fee on top of a Rental fee as well as paying a $299 fee that has just been reduced to $99!

I will most likely drop to HD bronze because of this. I'll get my $200 back one way or another 

So if you really wanted to make this into some form of hamburger example keep this in mind...

When they introduce a "new hamburger" they sell it to you at a reduced cost to get you to try it. Burgers are also a disposable item. IE you do not just buy one burger. If Dish's burger dropped in price after I already bought a few at $10 each they I would still benefit on future buys.

A better example would be if you bought a brand new car for $30,000 and after you signed the contract and are making the first few payments they drop the price to $10,000. You are still obligated to pay the higher price even though they dropped the price by two-thirds. It's quite possible that people are still making payments on the extra $200 (it's only been 1-3 months for some people) that was just washed away by Dish's new price.

-JB


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

jrb531 said:


> Let's not get silly here.
> 
> Why is it that I can see your side but you not mine?
> 
> ...


How is it that a few people, like yourself, believe that there is only one reason why the price would drop and that you were somehow scammed? I don't get it. Prices drop on things all the time. I've seen huge price drops and small price drops. I've also seen items phased out quickly too.

I worked at a computer company and there would be price-wars with other computer companies and they would drop prices below cost to compete with their arch-enemy and get more marketshare... so artificial price drops can and do happen quickly sometimes for various reasons.

We don't know why the price dropped... we don't know if it was planned or not.

All we know is the price dropped. Since this happens all the time with all kinds of stuff, I don't see why this is being singled out as something folks feel they were ripped off for buying.



jrb531 said:


> There is some forces at work here behind the scenes that caused Dish to make such a drastic reduction. I am so very glad that you have no issues paying an extra $200 for a few extra channels for 2-3 months.
> 
> I respect your feelings that you got your money's worth... I, and at least a few others, feel we were mislead.


I was not an early adopter. I haven't upgraded to ViP yet, as you'd notice if you read other posts I have around here where I say that I haven't upgraded but am considering it now with the lower price.

It was not worth the $299 lease fee before to me... nor was it worth a $699 purchase. At that time the price was too high for what I figured my enjoyment would be, so I didn't buy.

If you and others bought/leased at those prices... surely you must have thought it was worth that price to you, right? Are you saying that someone had a gun to your head and made you upgrade? I'm assuming not... so, presumably at the time you thought the $299 lease was a good deal OR you would have waited like I and a bunch of others have.

You can't blame anyone else for your need to have it "now" and upgrade when it was first offered. I'm not bashing you for being an early adopter... but to be an early adopter and then complain that you got ripped off makes no sense. You virtually always pay more when a product comes out new than you will later. Sometimes it takes a while, other times it happens quickly.

Even if you could prove that Dish knew and planned a price drop 4 months after the initial release... you still don't have a valid complaint because no one but yourself made you opt to buy when you did. You could have waited and saved money if that was more important to you.



jrb531 said:


> A better example would be if you bought a brand new car for $30,000 and after you signed the contract and are making the first few payments they drop the price to $10,000. You are still obligated to pay the higher price even though they dropped the price by two-thirds. It's quite possible that people are still making payments on the extra $200 (it's only been 1-3 months for some people) that was just washed away by Dish's new price.


In that example... again, no one forced you to buy the hypothetical car... so you'd have no one to blame but yourself for rushing to buy and not waiting to see if the price came down.

Nothing wrong with early adoption and rushing to buy if it is worth the price to you... but just don't complain later when you realize you could have waited and saved money. Next time use this as a lesson... and wait and don't be so quick to jump on the bandwagon.


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## LtMunst (Aug 24, 2005)

Prices on virtually everthing in the Mall drop drastically every December 26. Does that mean those of us who bought our Christmas gifts on December 24 were scammed?


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## jrb531 (May 29, 2004)

LtMunst said:


> Prices on virtually everthing in the Mall drop drastically every December 26. Does that mean those of us who bought our Christmas gifts on December 24 were scammed?


Why is it that people cannot understand that this is not the same as some closeout sale in which the store is trying to dump stock?

A few points:

1. The 622 is brand new tech
2. The 622 is highly in demand
3. There is not a new model about to replace the 622 and as such would warrant Dish trying to dump their stock
4. The 622 has not been out long enough for Dish to have gotten some reduction in manufacturing cost (at least not this substantial LOL)
5. The $99 Dish is now asking goes to the installer so in effect Dish is now giving the 622 away for free... or rather doing a regular lease

So why has the 622 dropped so much in cost? Lawsuit? Change of business strategy? Who knows.

All I said, and I stand by this, is that it leaves a "very" bad taste in my mouth.

I fail to see how any of these examples of hamburger sales and xmas closeouts are in any way linked to what happened.

Fact is that I just paid $100 per month for a two month head start on a handfull of channels that I could not get on my 811 or 508. I love the 622, I hate what Dish did.

IMHO the very least Dish could have done was to extend the $100 credit toward those who bought in the past few months. While this is not the same as the $200 reduction that everyone is now getting it would be a goodwill gesture.

Does Dish have to do this? Absolutely not but the same people who got 622's (the early adopters) in the first 2-3 months are some of Dish's strongest supporters and this is just not right.

So please stop giving silly examples. I understand full well that there is a risk anytime you pay full price for something. Never know when it will go on sale but once again....

Give me one example of new, high in demand, tech that drops from $299 to $99 within 2-3 months of release.

-JB


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

jrb531 said:


> Fact is that I just paid $100 per month for a two month head start on a handfull of channels that I could not get on my 811 or 508. I love the 622, I hate what Dish did.


Don't blame Dish for you choice.

It sounds as if you are saying that you wouldn't feel ripped off if Dish were still selling the ViP622 for $700 and leasing for $299... which really doesn't make any sense, because what does how much other people are paying for it have to do with whether or not it was worth what you paid?



jrb531 said:


> I understand full well that there is a risk anytime you pay full price for something. Never know when it will go on sale but once again....


Based on your posts... you appear not to understand this.


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## debpasc (Oct 20, 2005)

jbr531 -- spot on!!!!!!!! No company creates incentives not to be the first to buy new procuct which is just what Dish has now done. There has to be something going on we don't know about for this to make sense. Having said all that, it doesn't matter -- it is what it is. Some of us feel abused and some of us feel fortunate to have had the opportunity to have the 622 and more programming 60 days ahead and $199 behind the other Dish customers. These two points of view will never reconcile and in the end we all will agree to disagree.


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## dumbguy (Jun 3, 2006)

Reminds me of a story I've heard before...

Matthew 20:1-16

1 For the kingdom of heaven of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire workers for his vineyard. 2 And after agreeing with the workers for the standard wage, he sent them into his vineyard. 3 When it was about nine o’clock in the morning, he went out again and saw others standing around in the market place without work. 4 And he said to them, “You go into the vineyard too and I will give you whatever is right.” 5 So they went. When he went out again about noon and three o’clock that afternoon, he did the same thing. 6 And about five o’clock that afternoon he went out and found others standing around, and he said to them, “Why are you standing here all day without work?” 7 They said to him, “Because no one has hired us.” He said to them, “You go and work in the vineyard too.”

8 When it was evening, the owner of the vineyard said to his manager, “Call the workers and give the pay starting with the last hired until the first.” 9 When those hired about five o’clock came, each received a full day’s pay. 10 And when those hired first came, they though they would receive more. But each one also received the standard wage. 11 When they received it, they began to complain against the landowner, 12 saying, “These last fellows worked one hour, and you have made them equal to us who bore the hardship and burning heat of the day.

13 And the landowner replied to one of them, “Friend, I am not treating you unfairly. Didn’t you agree with me to work for the standard wage? 14 Take what is yours and go. I want to give this last man the same as I gave to you. 15 Am I not permitted to do what I want with what belongs to me? Or are you envious because I am generous? 16 So the last will be first, and the first will be last.”


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## dsanbo (Nov 25, 2005)

Not so dumb, dumbguy.....
Matthew 5:3......


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## Larry Caldwell (Apr 4, 2005)

debpasc said:


> jbr531 -- spot on!!!!!!!! No company creates incentives not to be the first to buy new procuct which is just what Dish has now done. There has to be something going on we don't know about for this to make sense. Having said all that, it doesn't matter -- it is what it is. Some of us feel abused and some of us feel fortunate to have had the opportunity to have the 622 and more programming 60 days ahead and $199 behind the other Dish customers. These two points of view will never reconcile and in the end we all will agree to disagree.


The obvious reason is that the 622 wasn't selling fast enough, so Dish sweetened the deal. They make their money off of programming, not hardware, and want to lock customers into the 622 and HD Metal while they still have a HD programming edge over DTV. 921 and 942 owners are good candidates for churn.

You can bet that Charlie's decision is based on a lot of hours of cost vs. revenue and profit analysis. His industrial espionage team may have also tipped him to an impending DTV customer raid.


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## Fifty Caliber (Jan 4, 2006)

LtMunst said:


> Prices on virtually everthing in the Mall drop drastically every December 26. Does that mean those of us who bought our Christmas gifts on December 24 were scammed?


I guess I also got scammed when I bought my PCS phone in 1997 for $549, since I can get a PDA phone for about the same price. I still have the phone and up untill six months ago was still using it. It did not stop working. I chose to discontinue service. I'd say I got my money's worth.


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## Chop-Chop (Mar 8, 2006)

I paid 299 to lease this thing. I got it just when it came out. That is the price I decided to pay back then for the right to have it and enoy it all this time. It kinda sucks that a few months later they lowered the upfront fee to 99 and are giving away 100 bucks in credits. I don't know if I knew this in advance I would have waited. Probably not since I got this for World Cup coverage in HD. 
My guesses why they did that:


To lock more people into their HD metallic packages which may have a higher price as their stand alones would have had
The 622 is in more supply (while it was in more demand back in Feb 06)
Competitive threat from Comcast and other Cable companies offering and HDDVR for $0 upfront costs


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## bheil (Feb 24, 2006)

For all those saying Dish didn't offer an incentive for new adopters. Think back to the 942 receiver, grand to buy the thing, and no lease option. $299 _is _the incentive if you consider that. You didn't have to pay 800 bucks to own the thing when it first hit the market. 
Now they need to appeal to more people so the price comes down.
At least everybody who bought 3-4 months ago got the use of the receiver. I signed up on the 5th, and they wouldn't give me the lower price on the 9th. I still don't have the service yet (install is July 5th, wish me luck!)
I guess there was a bad taste in my mouth as well, but it took about 1 week to go away. Now I just want my HD. And I'm secretly hoping they keep scrubbing shuttle launches until after the 5th!


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## jenniferny (May 28, 2006)

I would not have minded the $299 upgrade price if the receiver worked. The 622 is the biggest POS that Dish has ever put out. The HDMI connection worked for 10 days and has not worked for 2 months now and Dish says it must be connected wrong. I said, if it was connected wrong then why did it work for 10 days. The bottom line is that I am stuck with a HD receiver with the HD connection not working and I am viewing HD programming thru the S video connection. 
It wouldnt be so bad if Dish would just own up to the fact that they launched a receiver that did not work and tell me they are working every day to fix the problems. But no, as far as they are concerned the receiver works perfect and there is nothing wrong with all of the ones they have sold so far.


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## olgeezer (Dec 5, 2003)

Mine is great. I think the menu guide is 6 million days. Have had the unit since February 1


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## LtMunst (Aug 24, 2005)

jenniferny said:


> working and I am viewing HD programming thru the S video connection.


Don't you have a Component connection?


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## foghorn2 (Jun 18, 2006)

jenniferny said:


> I would not have minded the $299 upgrade price if the receiver worked. The 622 is the biggest POS that Dish has ever put out. The HDMI connection worked for 10 days and has not worked for 2 months now and Dish says it must be connected wrong. I said, if it was connected wrong then why did it work for 10 days. The bottom line is that I am stuck with a HD receiver with the HD connection not working and I am viewing HD programming thru the S video connection.
> It wouldnt be so bad if Dish would just own up to the fact that they launched a receiver that did not work and tell me they are working every day to fix the problems. But no, as far as they are concerned the receiver works perfect and there is nothing wrong with all of the ones they have sold so far.


Wrong, the 622 is the best thing Dish has ever put out. Mine is nearly flawless. Get a replacement or use components.


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## dave1234 (Oct 9, 2005)

jenniferny said:


> I would not have minded the $299 upgrade price if the receiver worked. The 622 is the biggest POS that Dish has ever put out. The HDMI connection worked for 10 days and has not worked for 2 months now and Dish says it must be connected wrong. I said, if it was connected wrong then why did it work for 10 days. The bottom line is that I am stuck with a HD receiver with the HD connection not working and I am viewing HD programming thru the S video connection.
> It wouldnt be so bad if Dish would just own up to the fact that they launched a receiver that did not work and tell me they are working every day to fix the problems. But no, as far as they are concerned the receiver works perfect and there is nothing wrong with all of the ones they have sold so far.


If you haven't already be sure to call technical support with your problem. You'll need to be sure you're talking to someone in technical support, any other area of customer service will likely be of little help.


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## jrb531 (May 29, 2004)

foghorn2 said:


> Wrong, the 622 is the best thing Dish has ever put out. Mine is nearly flawless. Get a replacement or use components.


Ditto here. Love my 622 and aside from having to reboot it once a week it's been near perfect.

-JB


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## normang (Nov 14, 2002)

jenniferny said:


> The bottom line is that I am stuck with a HD receiver with the HD connection not working and I am viewing HD programming thru the S video connection. .


If find it hard to believe that your HDTV only has an HDMI and S-video connection. Used the component connection and watch HD. Or push Dish to send you a new 622 and see if they can get the HDMI working, course HDMI is a POS in and of itself, no matter what's connected between it IMHO.


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## JerryLA (Dec 29, 2003)

My unit seems to work fairly well. I have occasional audio drop outs and pixelization but aside from that I like it. Anyone that reads this forum on a regular or semi regular basis knows that for whatever reason, Dish can't get all the bugs out of the units. There have been minor to major issues with every unit they have ever made. When you go for "new" hi-tech, you play the guinea pig game... they experiment with our usage. Long before they get the bugs out of the current units... there will be a bigger better unit... just aroung the corner with amazing new features.... that's just the way it is.


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## Larry Caldwell (Apr 4, 2005)

LtMunst said:


> Don't you have a Component connection?


Let me guess...you do telephone computer support? I once bought a brand new laptop that crashed every time it entered sleep mode. The telephone support solution was to set the software so that the laptop never entered sleep mode.


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## jrb531 (May 29, 2004)

Larry Caldwell said:


> Let me guess...you do telephone computer support? I once bought a brand new laptop that crashed every time it entered sleep mode. The telephone support solution was to set the software so that the laptop never entered sleep mode.


I have no issue with my HDMI but what is the "real" difference in PQ between HDMI and Component? I had thought that HDMI was basically invented for copy protection.

So if the TV has both HDMI and component (most do) and the PQ is the same then why not just use component?

I thought I read that the 622's with bad HDMI were hardware defects?

Either way I hope it gets resolved.

-JB


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## LtMunst (Aug 24, 2005)

Larry Caldwell said:


> Let me guess...you do telephone computer support? I once bought a brand new laptop that crashed every time it entered sleep mode. The telephone support solution was to set the software so that the laptop never entered sleep mode.


No, I was not excusing the loss of HDMI. I was just indicating that there is an alternative HD connection that could be used in the meantime. The poster I responded to was complaining that they cannot watch HD until the HDMI problem is fixed. That is probably not true.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

jrb531 said:


> I have no issue with my HDMI but what is the "real" difference in PQ between HDMI and Component? I had thought that HDMI was basically invented for copy protection.
> 
> So if the TV has both HDMI and component (most do) and the PQ is the same then why not just use component?
> 
> ...


 Hdmi is supposed to give you an all digital picture from the satellite to your reciever without any digital to analog converison and back upconverted to 1080i by the receiver. THis is supposed to give you the best picture quality you can get. The copy right thing is another reason. I suffer from no problems with hdmi with my two Toshiba tvs.


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