# Got a ticket from Police!



## obrienaj (Apr 8, 2004)

So, there I was carefully doing 25 MPH in a 30 MPH zone when the New York State Trooper made a U-turn and chased after me! He gave me "an obstructed view " ticket for having my Sirius Sportster in the "wrong" place on my windshield. I drive a Dodge Grand Caravan and it has a HUGE windshield area, the radio is so small compared to the overall size of the windshield, it was hardly an "obstructed view".

The Trooper said he had the same radio!


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## SamC (Jan 20, 2003)

www.motorists.org


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## Adam Richey (Mar 25, 2002)

That seems a bit unfair to me. Sounds to me like he was just trying to throw his weight around, and yes I have seen them do that. Annoys the HELL outta me.


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

When I was in high school we had a safety/Health Career day thing of sorts. I took a class with the State Police, from what I remember anything hanging from the windshield or rearview mirror is illegal, including those scented pine trees. Which begs the question why the hell aren't EZPass window tags illegal.

Here's some pictures of my dual install, neither receivers are hanging from the windsheild, but other things are.


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## Adam Richey (Mar 25, 2002)

Steve, since you've got XM and Sirius, which one do you think is better? My dad is actually considering getting it for his Jeep Cherokee. Seems like Sirius has the better music, but XM has quite a wider variety in other programming.


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

Just to let you know none of this is going to help, but here goes.

Honestly, neither is better then the other and I don’t like one better then the other, I just got XM first and listen to them more then Sirius. They both have positives and negatives. A lot depends on taste and personal preference. There are some categories of music where I like XMs version better and some where I like Sirius’ version better. It all depends.

Sirius plays more radio hits and has more out going on air personalities, XM plays the hits as well as more obscure tracks, and a lot of channels either don’t have DJs or don’t have DJs all the time. I do listen to XM more, I love channel 49 Big Tracks, and 34 Enlighten. Sirius has no channel like Enlighten. 

For talk both are about equal or me. They both carry Fox News, Fox News Talk, the conservative talk channels are similar. I do like Opie & Anthony, I check out Stern and Bubba every once in a while though. Reception, never had any major problems with either service at home or on the road.

A bit more info is needed. If you’re only looking at getting one service, which I assume you are, you have to weigh in some factors. What’s important to your father, in terms of music, talk and sports? What does he prefer and how important is each one?


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## obrienaj (Apr 8, 2004)

Steve Mehs said:


> When I was in high school we had a safety/Health Career day thing of sorts. I took a class with the State Police, from what I remember anything hanging from the windshield or rearview mirror is illegal, including those scented pine trees. Which begs the question why the hell aren't EZPass window tags illegal.
> 
> Here's some pictures of my dual install, neither receivers are hanging from the windsheild, but other things are.


or why the NYS Troopers can have things WAY bigger than a Sirius radio on their dashboard obscuring more of the windshield.


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

Adam Richey said:


> Steve, since you've got XM and Sirius, which one do you think is better? My dad is actually considering getting it for his Jeep Cherokee. Seems like Sirius has the better music, but XM has quite a wider variety in other programming.


If your dad has an internet connection have him try the 30 day free trials of each. It is largely a matter of perasonal preference.


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## lifterguy (Dec 22, 2003)

Steve Mehs said:


> When I was in high school we had a safety/Health Career day thing of sorts. I took a class with the State Police, from what I remember anything hanging from the windshield or rearview mirror is illegal, including those scented pine trees. Which begs the question why the hell aren't EZPass window tags illegal.


My EZPass tag is mounted on the windshield behind the review mirror. I can't even see the transponder when sitting in my normal driving position. Not quite the same as something hanging from the mirror or mounted on the windsheild below the mirror.


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

Yes I get that, so is mine, but I see them plastered all over other spots of the windshields, notably below the mirror or on the drivers side below the blue tint strips.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

obrienaj said:


> I drive a Dodge Grand Caravan and it has a HUGE windshield area, the radio is so small compared to the overall size of the windshield, it was hardly an "obstructed view".


The rule of thumb where I live is if the obstruction is in the area swept by the wipers, it is a bona fide obstruction. This includes rock chips.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

It's funny, but I had my Sirius receiver mounted on my dash for quite some time. I had to call the local police a while back about a dumping incident at my property. When the officer arrived he asked me if I had Sirius or XM sitting on the dash. I told him I had Sirius and he said that he had XM. Not a word was said about sight lines. He even said it looked like a clean installation (as I admired the computer mounted on his "passenger" seat).


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

SamC said:


> www.motorists.org


Great organization, and I'm a card carrying member too.....

NEVER just pay the ticket. Do some research as to the the ordinance he said you violated to see if there is an objective criteria you can point to to say you were not in violation.

If it is a subjective thing, (ie. "It's too big") with no basis of fact to point to, you should have a stronger case.

Regardless, fight the ticket UNLESS your town tacks on some "court costs" bs, that might make your ticket cost more than if you just paid it. Also, make sure there are no points in your state assessed for this violation to keep your insurance rates from potentially going up. If there ARE points associated, fight it regardless of the court costs, as points will hit your license (and your insurance) for at least 3 years....


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

harsh said:


> The rule of thumb where I live is if the obstruction is in the area swept by the wipers, it is a bona fide obstruction. This includes rock chips.


well if that is what it says on the police web site it has to be true. Just kidding. I would agree that these rules seem to be enforced inconsistently. the cynic in me says that if the state is amking money off something it is OK.


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## SamC (Jan 20, 2003)

Geronimo said:


> I would agree that these rules seem to be enforced inconsistently. the cynic in me says that if the state is amking money off something it is OK.


*ALL* traffic enforcement is enforced inconsistently, generally reflecting the prejudices of the HS graduate doing the enforcing and *ALL* traffic enforcement is 100% about M O N E Y .


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

obrienaj said:


> So, there I was carefully doing 25 MPH in a 30 MPH zone when the New York State Trooper made a U-turn and chased after me! He gave me "an obstructed view " ticket for having my Sirius Sportster in the "wrong" place on my windshield. I drive a Dodge Grand Caravan and it has a HUGE windshield area, the radio is so small compared to the overall size of the windshield, it was hardly an "obstructed view".
> 
> The Trooper said he had the same radio!


It's called I needed one more ticket for my quota.


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

SamC said:


> *ALL* traffic enforcement is enforced inconsistently, generally reflecting the prejudices of the HS graduate doing the enforcing and *ALL* traffic enforcement is 100% about M O N E Y .


Ain't that the truth.

The boys in blue tend to be fixated on speeding, red lights, and stop signs, when there are laws against failure to yield to faster traffic behind you in the fast lane (ie, Keep Right Pass Left), and faulty emissions (those rolling deathtraps that gass everyone behind them with thick white smoke) that seem to go ignored by them.

I live in NJ and the Garden State Parkway is filled with these guys (normally with New York plates for some reason) who refuse to give up their seeming God-given right to the fast lane, even if they are doing 5-10 miles an hour under the limit.


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## ntexasdude (Jan 23, 2005)

What about the state inspection stickers, registration stickers and my annual state park pass sticker not to mention parking stickers which some employers require? That sounds like BS to me. I suppose if a giant bird craps front and center you could a ticket for that too. Oh, and since we have a large Air Force base here there are thousands of cars tooling around with those illegal DOD stickers.


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

my EZ Pass, and my rearview mirror fail this test....

My XM is on a windshield mount to the right of my rear view mirror, my GPS is on a windshield mount right next to the A pillar (stuck over the back of my inspection sticker). None inhibit my view of the road....


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## ntexasdude (Jan 23, 2005)

Shoot, when the kids were little we used to lay them on the dash so they could get some sun.


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## Larry Caldwell (Apr 4, 2005)

Plead Not Guilty. For a CS ticket like that, he won't show up in court.


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## dpd146 (Oct 1, 2005)

SamC said:


> *ALL* traffic enforcement is enforced inconsistently, generally reflecting the prejudices of the HS graduate doing the enforcing and *ALL* traffic enforcement is 100% about M O N E Y .


As a former police officer with a bachelors degree, I have to totally disagree with you. I hated writing tickets and when I did it had nothing to do with money. I got paid crap so why would I want to make money for the city. I did work with some guys that all they wanted to do was write tickets, we called them traffic nazis but they were the exception not the rule. If the officer is short, you can count on a ticket, napolean complex thing. 

As far as this guys ticket, it is totally ridiculous. Most cops use laws like that if it was a contributing factor to accident. Like I didn't see the old lady in the wheelchair I mowed down because of my sat radio. If I worked with the trooper that wrote it, I would give him alot of crap for it. I would go to court on that one. As someone else mentioned, the radar unit and camera offer a whole lot more obstruction that a sat radio.

Now for a Public Service announcement; If you get pulled over for something stupid like that, under no circumstance should you indicate your displeasure with the officer or tell him who you know or mention that you pay his salary. Alot of traffic stops are going to be nothing more than advisory but end up with a ticket because of driver attitude.


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## Laverne (Feb 17, 2005)

ntexasdude said:


> Shoot, when the kids were little we used to lay them on the dash so they could get some sun.


I remember when I used to lay in the BACK dash! Kids today don't even know such a thing existed....


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

dpd146 said:


> As a former police officer with a bachelors degree, I have to totally disagree with you. I hated writing tickets and when I did it had nothing to do with money. I got paid crap so why would I want to make money for the city. I did work with some guys that all they wanted to do was write tickets, we called them traffic nazis but they were the exception not the rule. If the officer is short, you can count on a ticket, napolean complex thing.
> 
> As far as this guys ticket, it is totally ridiculous. Most cops use laws like that if it was a contributing factor to accident. Like I didn't see the old lady in the wheelchair I mowed down because of my sat radio. If I worked with the trooper that wrote it, I would give him alot of crap for it. I would go to court on that one. As someone else mentioned, the radar unit and camera offer a whole lot more obstruction that a sat radio.
> 
> Now for a Public Service announcement; If you get pulled over for something stupid like that, under no circumstance should you indicate your displeasure with the officer or tell him who you know or mention that you pay his salary. Alot of traffic stops are going to be nothing more than advisory but end up with a ticket because of driver attitude.


Amen to that..... Yes sir, no sir... and never admit any wrongdoing (looking shocked and incredulous no matter WHAT you did may help). Make friends with the police in town and try to get the local flavor of the PBA card in your area to help as a Get Out of Jail free card. It won't get you out of a DUI or a ticket due to an accident, but it will add weight to your side of the scales when facing a minor infraction.


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## ntexasdude (Jan 23, 2005)

Once with the lady friend (ok, wife) I got pulled over in Oklahoma by a state trooper. There had just been a trooper on a routine traffic stop shot and killed by a motorist a few weeks earlier not too far from where we were. This bad ass guy opened his driver door, knealed down, trained his .357 on me and asked me to slowly step out with my hands up. No kidding. Once he asseses that I'm not really a a threat he invites me back to the squad car. I make small talk and ask about his radar. He shows me how it works and lets me play with it. I look in the back seat and there's a gun rack with a Mossberg 12 ga. pump, an AR-15 semi-auto assault rifle and TWO .44 mag revolvers!!! We sat and chatted for the better part of 20 minutes and he asked me about my job and we talked about the guns and stuff. Finally he hands me the clipboard and asks me to sign the little pink slip. Dang-it.


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## dpd146 (Oct 1, 2005)

ntexasdude said:


> Once with the lady friend (ok, wife) I got pulled over in Oklahoma by a state trooper. There had just been a trooper on a routine traffic stop shot and killed by a motorist a few weeks earlier not too far from where we were. This bad ass guy opened his driver door, knealed down, trained his .357 on me and asked me to slowly step out with my hands up. No kidding. Once he asseses that I'm not really a a threat he invites me back to the squad car. I make small talk and ask about his radar. He shows me how it works and lets me play with it. I look in the back seat and there's a gun rack with a Mossberg 12 ga. pump, an AR-15 semi-auto assault rifle and TWO .44 mag revolvers!!! We sat and chatted for the better part of 20 minutes and he asked me about my job and we talked about the guns and stuff. Finally he hands me the clipboard and asks me to sign the little pink slip. Dang-it.


I hope you were driving the same kind of car as the guy who shot the trooper, otherwise that is a bit excessive.

Troopers usually don't give warnings. There whole job is to write tickets. A city cop is much more likely to give a warning (unless it's a traffic cop then you're out of luck again). Most regular cops pull people over looking for other violations (warrants, drunks, drugs, etc...). The rule of thumb, the smaller the city the more likely you are to get a ticket.


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## SamC (Jan 20, 2003)

Real cops are heroes second only to the military and firemen.

Traffic cops are the scum of the earth.


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## dpd146 (Oct 1, 2005)

SamC said:


> Real cops are heroes second only to the military and firemen.
> 
> Traffic cops are the scum of the earth.


God made cops so firemen would have heroes 

Police forces are no different than any other segment of society, you have some good guys and some ****** bags.


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## ntexasdude (Jan 23, 2005)

We've got scads of motorcycle cops on brand new Harleys around here and they use lasers. My radar detector has three laser bands but generally by the time it alerts your had. They don't give warnings. One got my wife a few years ago near the house for doing 45 in a 35.

Watch out for school zones too!. Here a ticket for 1 mph over costs $170. Ouch!:eek2:


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## spykedvodka (Jan 31, 2006)

Luckily in PA only State Troopers use Radar Guns.... They are on some minor highways, but mostly on the four interstates that cross my area (I-78, I-81, I-80, & I-476) and some routine patrols in the less inhibited areas where there are no local police. The **** part of it is then, is that we have lines on the road that they use for manual timing to give speeding tickets. It's bull **** because I got one, when I was seriously 5 - 7 mph over the speed limit and the cop said I was 20 mph over. This sucked, because in PA if you get a violation of 20 MPH over the speed limit, you have to retake your drivers exam. Luckily though he wrote me up for 15 mph over, but still increased my insurance by $200 per 6 months. It sucks because if he hit the timing mechanism that they use, just a 1/2 second late (which he had to of done), it would've shown me well under 10 mph over the limit, probably around 5mph ish and not get a ticket. I should've fought it, but I just ate the ticket instead of going on with the court hassle, in fear of him raising it to that 20 MPH over the limit and have to retake the drivers exam and even higher insurance rates.


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

They cannot increase the number of charges or the speed they write you up for on a speeding ticket.

ALWAYS fight the tickets. If you don't fight, you lose. If you do fight, you may still lose, but in all likelihood you will see a major improvement.

As for him trying to raise the amount, what is he gonna say in court? That he falsified the data on the summons? The 5 mph he gave you back is the amount of variation most courts allow for speedometer calibration being a little off so he wasn't doing you any favors.... Most times they will try and get a plea bargain that you will admit guilty to.... Weirdly enough, they may plea a deal that INCREASES the fine vs. the original charge BUT make it a charge that doesn't carry points and isn't reported to the DMV, saving you the increased insurance rates....

Plus, as you discovered, the fine is the least of your worries, the insurance surcharges quickly dwarf the court fines....

A few suggestions.... Find out who runs the local organization that helps out fallen officers. In my area in NJ it is called the 200 Club. If any member of the police, first aid, or fire depts. dies in the line of duty they show up with a check for the family to help get them through that difficult time. PBA cards also work, .. as long as you are close to the jurisdiction where they were issued... Sometimes they'll seize them if you do a violation, sometimes they won't. They won't help you get out of a drunk driving charge or a reckless driving charge, but they will normally make most speeding tickets go away (assuming you wern't doing 70 in a 25 of course)

But at the minimum, ALWAYS fight the ticket. If the officer fails to show, the case is dismissed outright. (I read a story about one guy who asked a friend in the department when the guy was supposed to take his vacation and kept trying to postpone his day in court with a variety of excuses until the guy wouldn't be around... may be an urban legend, but who knows...)

Finally, join the National Motorists Association, ESPECIALLY if you are like me and travel 25,000 miles a year or more and move between states a lot.... They fight for motorists rights and expose municipal scams when they find it (like red light cameras set on intersections with yellow light cycles that are a few seconds too short in order to trap drivers....)

Here's their site....

http://www.motorists.org/login/index.html


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## agreer (Apr 7, 2006)

Steve Mehs said:


> When I was in high school we had a safety/Health Career day thing of sorts. I took a class with the State Police, from what I remember anything hanging from the windshield or rearview mirror is illegal, including those scented pine trees. Which begs the question why the hell aren't EZPass window tags illegal.
> 
> Here's some pictures of my dual install, neither receivers are hanging from the windsheild, but other things are.


What about private parking passes like the one I need to get into the secure areas at work? what about the little stickers that every oil change place puts in your window? what about the handicap parking window medallions (issues to those who cant drive so they can use it for anyone giving them a ride)?


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## agreer (Apr 7, 2006)

ntexasdude said:


> We've got scads of motorcycle cops on brand new Harleys around here and they use lasers. My radar detector has three laser bands but generally by the time it alerts your had. They don't give warnings. One got my wife a few years ago near the house for doing 45 in a 35.
> 
> Watch out for school zones too!. Here a ticket for 1 mph over costs $170. Ouch!:eek2:


That would have been easy to fight, those detectors certinly have a margin of error!


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

agreer said:


> What about private parking passes like the one I need to get into the secure areas at work? what about the little stickers that every oil change place puts in your window? what about the handicap parking window medallions (issues to those who cant drive so they can use it for anyone giving them a ride)?


They're supposed to be removed from the mirror when driving and only put into place when parked. My great aunt whose 87 years old has a handicapped parking tag, she just had I renewed a few months ago, near the bottom there's a notice about removing from the rear view mirror when driving. She doesn't drive, but her daughter drives her around and pretty much adheres to this. My great aunts doctor is said NY State is really pushing the handicapped license plates.

Yesterday on one of the major (but short) interstates, state troopers were everywhere. The interstate is 9.6 miles long, I was on it for about 6 miles and saw 7 troopers, radar detector was going off almost the entire time. I actually thought about this thread, as I moved my radar detector up to almost the rear view mirror. When I was at the WalMart parking lot I moved it down lower, so I wouldn't get hit with an obstruction of view charge on my way back.

The oil change stickers I assume are so small no on really cares. Most cars I've seen them on have then up in the top left corner, in the tint strip. I used to have one for tire rotations but lost it, and that's where they put it.


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## Glen_D (Oct 21, 2006)

Some of the comments in this thread remind me of a co-worker of mine several years ago whose wife's car had a bumper sticker that read: "Policemen do it better", a holdover from her days before they were married when she was a civilian employee at the police department. My co-worker was driving that car one day when he was stopped by a police officer because the safety inspection sticker was expired. After he produced his driver's license, the officer handed it back to him and told him to get the inspection taken care of ASAP, and have a nice day. No written warning or summons issued.

He refused to remove that bumper sticker because he thought that kept him from getting a citation for that infraction.


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## Larry Caldwell (Apr 4, 2005)

SamC said:


> Real cops are heroes second only to the military and firemen.
> 
> Traffic cops are the scum of the earth.


The danger of being a police officer is overrated. There are many occupations that are more dangerous. Farmer. Logger. Professional fisherman. Convenience store clerk. Construction worker. If you look at the OHSA stats, a professional fisherman is 9 times more likely to be killed on the job than a policeman, a logger is 5 times as likely to be killed and 14 times as likely to be crippled for life, a farmer is 3.4 times as likely to be killed on the job.

The tough thing about being a cop is putting up with all the crap, not the danger. A farmer might die earlier, but he will have more fun doing it.


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

> The danger of being a police officer is overrated.


Tell that to the widow and 1 year old son of New York State Trooper Joseph Longobardo who was shot and killed by an FBI Top Ten Most Wanted fugitive here in the Buffalo area a few months ago.


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## dave1234 (Oct 9, 2005)

So is the general consensus here that no speed laws should be enforced? Now we're really getting off topic.  

I wonder if the radio wasn't mistaken for a radar detector? (Just to get back on topic)


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

Considering the last line in Andys's post, 'The Trooper said he had the same radio!' I doubt it was mistaken for anything other then a Sirius radio.  Besides what difference would it make, radar detectors are perfectly legal everywhere in the US except Virginia and DC for normal passenger vehicles. Hell radar jammers are even legal 41 states.


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## Larry Caldwell (Apr 4, 2005)

Steve Mehs said:


> Tell that to the widow and 1 year old son of New York State Trooper Joseph Longobardo who was shot and killed by an FBI Top Ten Most Wanted fugitive here in the Buffalo area a few months ago.


How many police officers have you personally known who were killed on the job? I have known two farmers who died while working, one from a tractor rollover and one when a piece of equipment shifted and crushed him to death. There's no doubt that police officers face death or injury at work, but so do many other occupations that no one calls "heroic." No matter how you die, at the end of the day, you are just as dead.

What's the population of Buffalo? My local area has a rural and urban population of about 55,000, and here is the death and injury toll in the woods for the last couple of years.

http://www.oregonnews.com/article/20060125/NEWS/60125011&SearchID=73264335925927

http://www.oregonnews.com/article/20050620/NEWS/50620023&SearchID=73264335925927

http://www.oregonnews.com/article/20040513/NEWS/105130030&SearchID=73264335925927

http://www.oregonnews.com/article/20040202/NEWS/102020045&SearchID=73264335925927

http://www.oregonnews.com/article/20050112/NEWS/101120072&SearchID=73264335925927


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