# Weird problem on my 721. Need some advice...



## mattmcg (Dec 12, 2002)

Recently while watching TV from my 721, I've had an error message show up on certain channels that say:

Channel 161 Lost Lock.
Please wait, or Channel Up/Down
Satellite: 119
Transponder: 20
Satellite Input: 1

The error seems to move around to different channels during the day and is not consistent. I've performed a switch check and everything checks out ok. It also seems to be increasing in number (meaning the number of channels that show this error).

Can somebody please advise me on what the problem is and what I should do?

Thanks in advance.


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## jerryyyyy (Jul 19, 2002)

New one to me. Hope you have been paying your $1.99 a month for the replacement on demand of the 721. 

PS If one of the receivers is going as it did on mine I recall it happened on only one of the receivers and not the other. If this is the case with your error it may be a s ign the receiver has about had it. I think if you switch the cable input for some reason it goes from one receiver to the other. 

In any case, would ask the company.


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## SJ HART (Feb 12, 2003)

Another issue might be if have low signal strength on 119. Some transponders would have problems before others...


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

You need to check the signal on each transponder. It could be that your signal is low because the dish has moved or you may have a wiring problem. When you are checking the signal keep in mind that transponders 1, 3, 5, 7, and 9 from 119 and transponders 2, 4, 6, 8, and 10 from 110 are spot beams and they may have a weak or no signal in your area.

If you find a lot of low signals (below 70) your dish likely needs to be re-aligned. If you are looking at a transponder and see the signal drop that could be caused by a bad cable or connector.


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## mattmcg (Dec 12, 2002)

Hmmmm....

So I went into the 'Point Dish' application to see what the signal strength was for 119, 20, 1. I had a really weird reading. The signal meter would jump around. That is to say, it would read a signal strength of 72 then switch to 0 and back again to 72! It seems to switch back and forth every 1/2 second or so.

In scrolling between transponders, I found a few transponder readings that were similar to the above example. At first the screen would show 72, then 0, then back to 72 and switching every 1/2 second of so.

Here are the actual transponders that acted in this fashion:
Satellite 119
Transponder: 4, 6, 8, 10, 18, 20, 

Satellite 110
Transponder: 8, 18, 20

Could I have a defective switch (that's been operating perfectly for a year) or a defective tuner?

Here's another oddity. If I set the point dish app to look at satellite 119, spotbeam 7, tuner 2, I get a signal strength of 96. If I stay on the same satellite/transponder but switch to tuner 1, I get a signal strength of 0 and a message "Can not lock satellite signal!". With my setup of a Dish 500 to a 3x4 multiswitch with two cable feeds to a 721, shouldn't I get the same signal strength on each tuner? This happens on multiple channels where the signal comes in strong on tuner 2 but nothing comes in on tuner 1.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

Sounds like one of your tuners is going out on your 721. Had the same problem with a brand new 721 I got and I had to send it back for a replacement 721. Got the replacement 721 and the twin lnb that I had just installed with the new 721 went bad. I could only get the 110 sat and no 119 at all. Received the replacement lnb from Dish and now all is well with both the new 721 and the dish lnb.


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## ericha (Jan 21, 2003)

I had similar symptoms on my 721 about a month before tuner 1 completely died.


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## retiredTech (Oct 27, 2003)

Watch your 721 with PIP (so that both tuners are visible)

Observe the loss messages

Switch the input 1 and input 2 (from dish) on the back of the 721.

Then see if the problem stays on tuner 1 or changes to tuner 2.

If the problem changes to tuner 2 then most likely you have a loose or corroded connector.

If the problem stays on tuner 1 then you may have a bad tuner and need a replacement 721.

You will have to report your findings to tech support (make sure your 721 is under 1 year or have the extended warranty "in place for 30 days)


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## mattmcg (Dec 12, 2002)

retiredTech said:


> Watch your 721 with PIP (so that both tuners are visible)
> 
> Observe the loss messages
> 
> ...


Ok, here are the results after running through these suggestions:
-If I turn the PIP on (with both channels set to channel 122), they both show loss of signal lock on both input 1 and input 2.
-I also plugged in my 301 (that has since been banned to a lonely closet) and plugged in one of the cables from the satellite, through the DP34 switch. Low and behold, the 301 when set to channel 122 also could not lock onto channel 122. So, seems that it's not a bad tuner.
-Next I went out to my switch closet (where my DP34 sits), and disconnected the DP34 from the inline connection and swapped it with two straight through barrel connectors (essentially taking the switch out of the equation). The same problem occured with loss of signal lock on channel 122 with either cable plugged into the 301.

So, I guess I can deduce that the defective item is the twin LNB on my Dish 500 dish. Does this sound like a safe assumption with the testing and logic I've presented? I think I've isolated this fairly well but I'm very open to further suggestions.


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## CivilizedAnarchy (Nov 22, 2003)

If that LNB is a Dish Pro Twin with the serial number CCS9601
it has been recalled due to failures in heat and cold.
The number is on the silver sticker below the eyes.

Lata, C.J.


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## retiredTech (Oct 27, 2003)

mattmcg said:


> Ok, here are the results after running through these suggestions:
> -If I turn the PIP on (with both channels set to channel 122), they both show loss of signal lock on both input 1 and input 2.
> -I also plugged in my 301 (that has since been banned to a lonely closet) and plugged in one of the cables from the satellite, through the DP34 switch. Low and behold, the 301 when set to channel 122 also could not lock onto channel 122. So, seems that it's not a bad tuner.
> -Next I went out to my switch closet (where my DP34 sits), and disconnected the DP34 from the inline connection and swapped it with two straight through barrel connectors (essentially taking the switch out of the equation). The same problem occured with loss of signal lock on channel 122 with either cable plugged into the 301.
> ...


Follow all your cables to the dish, check all connections (ie grounding block, any splices, at the lnbs) 
MOST LIKELY a corroded connection Or loose connection.

Some other things to check are,(less likely) is your mount stable, are there any obstacles (like tree limbs)

The LNB itself would be the last thing to suspect but not impossible.


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## mattmcg (Dec 12, 2002)

retiredTech said:


> Follow all your cables to the dish, check all connections (ie grounding block, any splices, at the lnbs)
> MOST LIKELY a corroded connection Or loose connection.
> 
> Some other things to check are,(less likely) is your mount stable, are there any obstacles (like tree limbs)
> ...


Ok, I've followed the cabling as far as I can go. This means from the receiver to the satellite side of the switch and everything is connected appropriately (my install is all environmentally protected until you connect to the dish).

I guess the concern I have with the corroded or loose connection theory is that after going exhaustively through each and every channel, here is what I'm finding. The only channels I'm having problems with are from the 119 satellite and on even transponder numbers. So, transponders 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 18, and 20 are the one giving me trouble. When I go into the point dish application, they are not able to obtain a signal lock and the signal strength jumps around quite a bit (i.e. from a signal strength of 0 to 70 in 1/2 second blips). If it were a cable connection problem, wouldn't I lose signal on all transponders, not just the even ones?

I guess I'm still at the theory that my twin LNB is defective. Any thoughts or comments to test this?

And BTW, I really appreciate all of the assistance!


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## SJ HART (Feb 12, 2003)

Assume you have high quality cable capable of handling DISHPRO? (i.e. RG6 SWEEP TESTED AT 2200 MGhz). If so, still sounds like a connector issue to me. I had the exact issue when one of my connectors got a little bit corroded. SJ


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## mattmcg (Dec 12, 2002)

SJ HART said:


> Assume you have high quality cable capable of handling DISHPRO? (i.e. RG6 SWEEP TESTED AT 2200 MGhz). If so, still sounds like a connector issue to me. I had the exact issue when one of my connectors got a little bit corroded. SJ


Are you saying that a corroded connector had you lose only certain transponders from a certain satellite?

Perhaps I'm being a little dense here but I thought you were either connected (and getting signal) or not connected (and getting no signal). So, an on/off switch. Are you telling me that there is a 1/2 on/off where a bad connection can only delivery 1/2 of the signal?

Perhaps I'm thinking too 'electronic engineer' but this 1/2 stuff is weirding me out when it comes to wires.......... Please advise......


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## mattmcg (Dec 12, 2002)

SJ HART said:


> Assume you have high quality cable capable of handling DISHPRO? (i.e. RG6 SWEEP TESTED AT 2200 MGhz). If so, still sounds like a connector issue to me. I had the exact issue when one of my connectors got a little bit corroded. SJ


And to answer your question, yes all RG6 cable from satellite to switch to receiver.


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## SJ HART (Feb 12, 2003)

I think the corrosion caused the signal strength to vary which was more apparent on some transponders vs. others. I believe that it has to do with the frequencys going between the LNB and your receiver for the corresponding transponder. Obviously, if the connection failed, then you would lose all channels. Could you describe your exact setup? DISH 500 (with what type of LNB), 3x4 switch (is that a DP34?). May help with some of the experts on the forum. SJ


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## mattmcg (Dec 12, 2002)

SJ HART said:


> I think the corrosion caused the signal strength to vary which was more apparent on some transponders vs. others. I believe that it has to do with the frequencys going between the LNB and your receiver for the corresponding transponder. Obviously, if the connection failed, then you would lose all channels. Could you describe your exact setup? DISH 500 (with what type of LNB), 3x4 switch (is that a DP34?). May help with some of the experts on the forum. SJ


Sure!

My exact setup is a Dish500 twin LNB with two RG6 cables to a DP34 switch, with two RG6 cables connected directly to the 721. I've been able to go through and verify that all connections are good except for the one as the Dish500 (on the roof). All of this is inside except for the connection to the dish so none had corrosion and all connections were there (I did unscrew and screw them back on).

So, the one thing to note again is that the even transponders on 119 have the signal strength jumping from 0 to 72 then back to 0 in 1/2 second increments so the receiver is not able to get a signal lock.


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## DishDude1 (Apr 13, 2002)

Do what was suggested above and check the LNB for the CCS9601 part number, that was a known bad batch.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

My defective lnb did the exact same thing with the sat only getting 110 channels and no 119 channels. Replaced the lnb and the new lnb works great with the new replacement 721 I got .


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## Jordanis (Mar 18, 2003)

I'm sure you probably have thought of this, but just in case it didn't occur to you here's one other thing to check as well..

Now dont laugh...... here it comes..

Go outside and LOOK at the dish itself... Make sure either storms, snow, neighborhood kids or anything hasn't touched the actual dish itself.. It's sounds silly but it could simply be a matter of the dish isn't pointed up anymore, or has been moved around due to bolts being loosened or whatnot..

I can't count the number of times I've helped someone with computers or other technical stuff, gone through hours of work only to find out they forgot to plug something in, plugged it in wrong, or touched something they shouldn't have... don't be so quick to judge the tuner or LNB, it might be good old fashion human error


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