# The iPhone 5/iOS 6 thread



## Chris Blount

Well, today is the announcement. Will you be getting your iPhone 5?

I plan on ordering through the Apple Store online. Has worked for me in the past. Seems like you almost have to do it when pre-orders start or you don't get a phone for several weeks.


----------



## Stuart Sweet

I'm going to order through AT&T, it worked for me last time; I had the phone the first day it became available. 

If all the leaked information is true, I won't be super excited about this phone; I don't need a bigger screen, I don't need a new dock connector. What I need is a phone with a working home button, which is the problem now. Apple did me no favors by postponing the launch event... I've been with my iPhone 4 since June (?) 2010 and it's getting old.

I would get a 4s but I really want futureproofing. I'm guessing we'll see a faster processor and more RAM.


----------



## Chris Blount

Stuart Sweet said:


> I'm going to order through AT&T, it worked for me last time; I had the phone the first day it became available.
> 
> If all the leaked information is true, I won't be super excited about this phone; I don't need a bigger screen, I don't need a new dock connector. What I need is a phone with a working home button, which is the problem now. Apple did me no favors by postponing the launch event... I've been with my iPhone 4 since June (?) 2010 and it's getting old.
> 
> I would get a 4s but I really want futureproofing. I'm guessing we'll see a faster processor and more RAM.


 I agree. I'm not super excited but like to have the latest gadgets. I'm not thrilled about the new connector either but actually looking forward to the bigger screen. Seems lately my arm has been getting longer and longer when reading stuff.


----------



## klang

I too wish they would leave the size alone. I would prefer thinner. I will order online from Apple when available. I skipped the 4S so I'm overdue for something new.


----------



## trdrjeff

Interesting the screen increase was likely the result of larger battery for the LTE. I don't think any of you will be disappointed with the larger screen. The thickness front to back makes the phone feel larger or smaller more than the width, my Galaxy Nexus is a bit larger than my old Droid X, but feels smaller.


----------



## Stuart Sweet

trdjeff, you speak almost as if you've already seen and played with this phone.


----------



## trdrjeff

lol, no...but I bet unless you handle your old phone you'll likely not even notice the size difference after a day except appreciating the screen real estate


----------



## Chris Blount

One other thing I forgot about is the LTE. I hope it's included. I'm very spoiled with it on my iPad. It's wicked fast.


----------



## quizzer

I will also like to know how it compares against Galaxy S3 (and Note 2).


----------



## tgater

I'm on the fence. My 1st gen Atrix has performed well for me. I'm due for an upgrade but may get a Windows Mobile Phone. One of the malls in CT have a Microsoft Store accross the hall from and Apple store. I may go there and try to compare, I really want more out of a phone than most have to offer.


----------



## Steve

tgater said:


> I'm on the fence. My 1st gen Atrix has performed well for me. I'm due for an upgrade but may get a Windows Mobile Phone. One of the malls in CT have a Microsoft Store accross the hall from and Apple store. I may go there and try to compare, I really want more out of a phone than most have to offer.


You might want to wait a few weeks to compare, to be sure it's apples-to-apples (no pun intended ). The recently announced Sammy and Nokia Win 8 phones should be in the stores by then.


----------



## Chris Blount

Engadget has a pretty darn good live blog going. Nice change from the way it was before:

http://www.engadget.com/2012/09/12/apple-iphone-5-liveblog/


----------



## Alan Gordon

I still don't know if I'm getting an iPhone 5 yet. If I could just grab one, it'd be no problem, but any upgrade would shift me to Verizon's Family Data plans that would mean I'd be paying MORE for less... and I really don't need to do that.

If I do upgrade my phone, and I need one given the POS status my phone currently enjoys (random reboots, lock-ups, 5 minutes of battery life, etc., etc., etc.), I will be getting an iPhone 5.

My phone is currently 4 inches. Part of me would enjoy a 4 inch iPhone, but another part of me likes the smaller phone size. I'd probably feel more comfortable with the 4-inch given my finger size.

LTE is not available here. It might be nearby next year, but I'm perfectly happy with 3G, so no big whoop here...

The one thing I wish the iPhone 5 would bring is something that it doesn't look like it will have... namely bigger storage. 

As long as it has the reliability of my iPad, I'm OK! 

~Alan


----------



## Laxguy

I am sticking with my 4S for now! Just got an HR34, and thinking about a new AVS so my toy chest is full for now.


----------



## Alan Gordon

Chris Blount said:


> Engadget has a pretty darn good live blog going. Nice change from the way it was before:
> 
> http://www.engadget.com/2012/09/12/apple-iphone-5-liveblog/


Thanks Chris!

I'm using it for my primary now...

~Alan


----------



## Alan Gordon

225 hours of standby time?!?!?!!?!

My phone rarely does 14 hours of standby time!!!

~Alan


----------



## Sixto

20% lighter.

18% thinner.

better battery life then 4S.


----------



## The Merg

Panoramic photos...

- Merg


----------



## Sixto

The Merg said:


> Panoramic photos...
> 
> - Merg


28 megapixels for it.


----------



## CopyCat

My 4S is less than a year old and with IOS 6 Beta 4 is fine for anything I want to do for now. 

BTW - IOS 6 for iPad 3 does activate Siri.


----------



## Chris Blount

Same price as the 4S. $199 for 16GB. $299 for 32GB, $399 for 64GB.

Pre-orders start on Friday the 14th. Shipping on September 21st.


----------



## Alan Gordon

iOS 6 out on the 19th...

~Alan


----------



## TBoneit

I am amazed that people want to replace a 2 year old phone. 

A Phone should last for many years.

Of course I am easily amazed. I am still surprised that people want to take a phone with them. I wouldn't even answer the phone in the daytime if it wasn't required by work.

I go home at night and look at the caller ID, Verizon Wired, and mumble to myself, sells call, scam, spam, done. Yup no important calls missed there.


----------



## Stuart Sweet

Well it seems like the event is over. I'm disappointed that there was essentially nothing new to learn other than the release date and prices. I'm also wondering how much those new sync cables and adapters are going to run me.


----------



## TBoneit

Stuart, Stay with the old phone. Does it still make phone calls? Why change.


----------



## austen0316

iPhone 5 is very disappointing. Glad I got the SIII


----------



## Garyunc

4G could be reason enough to upgrade...


----------



## Chris Blount

Stuart Sweet said:


> Well it seems like the event is over. I'm disappointed that there was essentially nothing new to learn other than the release date and prices. I'm also wondering how much those new sync cables and adapters are going to run me.


 Yeah, I don't expect the cables will be cheap. As it stands now I will need to buy at least 3 cables and 1 adapter.


----------



## Chris Blount

TBoneit said:


> I am amazed that people want to replace a 2 year old phone.
> 
> A Phone should last for many years.
> 
> Of course I am easily amazed. I am still surprised that people want to take a phone with them. I wouldn't even answer the phone in the daytime if it wasn't required by work.
> 
> I go home at night and look at the caller ID, Verizon Wired, and mumble to myself, sells call, scam, spam, done. Yup no important calls missed there.


 That's how I was but you have to understand that smartphones are no longer just phones. I use mine for e-mail, music, surfing, pictures, doing something on my computer at home (screen sharing), GPS directions, checking my security cameras, checking DBSTalk, adjusting my thermostat before I get home, entering stuff into my checkbook, checking my calendar, and of course making calls.

So you see, just making phones calls isn't enough these days.


----------



## Phil T

Chris Blount said:


> That's how I was but you have to understand that smartphones are no longer just phones. I use mine for e-mail, music, surfing, pictures, doing something on my computer at home (screen sharing), GPS directions, checking my security cameras, checking DBSTalk, adjusting my thermostat before I get home, entering stuff into my checkbook, checking my calendar, and of course making calls.
> 
> So you see, just making phones calls isn't enough these days.


You forgot taking pictures and videos. I very seldom have a need to carry a camera and can e-mail or post photos and videos easily.

(You did mention pictures. My old eyes didn't see it before I posted.)


----------



## Sixto

Lighter, thinner, bigger screen, better battery life, LTE ...

The phone is my buddy and with me everywhere.

I'm ready to order.


----------



## Alan Gordon

TBoneit said:


> I am amazed that people want to replace a 2 year old phone.
> 
> A Phone should last for many years.


Should and would are two different things... 



TBoneit said:


> Of course I am easily amazed. I am still surprised that people want to take a phone with them. I wouldn't even answer the phone in the daytime if it wasn't required by work.


Everybody has different lifestyles. I don't have home phone service, so my cell phone is my only phone.

I live in a rural area. There are many places around here where one would not want to be without a cell phone.



TBoneit said:


> I go home at night and look at the caller ID, Verizon Wired, and mumble to myself, sells call, scam, spam, done. Yup no important calls missed there.


I started to make a joke, but I'm afraid it might come off as serious, so I'll let it go. The point is that EVERYBODY is different...

~Alan


----------



## harsh

Alan Gordon said:


> Should and would are two different things...


Apple and their fetish for batteries that aren't user replaceable has always made the lifespan relatively short.


----------



## Chris Blount

harsh said:


> Apple and their fetish for batteries that aren't user replaceable has always made the lifespan relatively short.


 That all depends on how you look at it. My wife used an iPhone 3G for almost 3 years without battery issues. By that time however, the 3G was technically oudated so we sold it off for the latest iPhone.

Personally I haven't missed the non-user replaceable battery. Battery technology is much better than it was say 5 years ago. By the time the battery goes bad (3-5 years), it's time for a new phone anyway.


----------



## RunnerFL

Stuart Sweet said:


> Well it seems like the event is over. I'm disappointed that there was essentially nothing new to learn other than the release date and prices. I'm also wondering how much those new sync cables and adapters are going to run me.


$29 for the adapter, $19 for a new cable. And I read an article last week saying Apple isn't releasing the rights until 2013 so no cheap alternatives can be made.


----------



## RunnerFL

I'm not super impressed by the iPhone 5 either. If I do get it I'm also looking at making a move to Sprint for unlimited data and the NASCAR features. No LTE for Sprint in my area yet so I'd be waiting until November. Also I hear Sprint's LTE is a bit slower than AT&T's LTE. No choices are easy are they? :lol:

I'm still thinking Galaxy S III as well but then there goes the money I've invested in apps for my iPhones over the years.


----------



## Steve

Chris Blount said:


> That all depends on how you look at it. My wife used an iPhone 3G for almost 3 years without battery issues. By that time however, the 3G was technically oudated so we sold it off for the latest iPhone.
> 
> Personally I haven't missed the non-user replaceable battery. Battery technology is much better than it was say 5 years ago. By the time the battery goes bad (3-5 years), it's time for a new phone anyway.


My granddaughter uses an original iPad, purchased by her mom in 2010. She was here a couple of weekends ago and used it for about 6-7 hours total Fri-Sun. I don't know how charged it was when she got here, but before she went home I checked and it still had over 50% charge left. I was pretty impressed!


----------



## Alan Gordon

harsh said:


> Apple and their fetish for batteries that aren't user replaceable has always made the lifespan relatively short.


I was thinking of my Samsung smartphone when I posted that... 

~Alan


----------



## boukengreen

i'll pronly get one in november when my contract is up i'm still using a 3gs right now


----------



## dennisj00

It's so disappointing they'll probably sell only 15-20 million in the next week!


----------



## klang

dennisj00 said:


> It's so disappointing they'll probably sell only 15-20 million in the next week!


Indeed, the reaction was much the same when the 4S was announced. How many millions have they sold?

I'll be ordering mine on Friday if I can get through.


----------



## jdskycaster

Wife and two kids all have 4s and they are only 6 months old. They will not be getting the cinco anytime soon.

Sing it Steve!


----------



## Laxguy

jdskycaster said:


> Wife and two kids all have 4s and they are only 6 months old. They will not be getting the cinco anytime soon.
> 
> [/URL]


Wow! your six month old kids have iPhones!



I'm a few decades past that and plan to 'scrape by' with my 4S. For at least a few weeks.


----------



## Rob77

Chris Blount said:


> Well, today is the announcement. Will you be getting your iPhone 5?
> 
> I plan on ordering through the Apple Store online. Has worked for me in the past. Seems like you almost have to do it when pre-orders start or you don't get a phone for several weeks.


All you Apple Fan Boys are like a bunch of sheep...you follow along and take comfort in what Apple tells you to do and your fellow sheep give you comfort that you are doing the right thing.

WAKE UP and see what other alternatives are out there. Have any of you even considered the Nokia 920.....I doubt it....probably you don't even know what it is......both Android and Windows Phone 8 has some really cool stuff.

Oh well, this is like talking to a brick wall


----------



## Sixto

Rob77 said:


> All you Apple Fan Boys are like a bunch of sheep...you follow along and take comfort in what Apple tells you to do and your fellow sheep give you comfort that you are doing the right thing.
> 
> WAKE UP and see what other alternatives are out there. Have any of you even considered the Nokia 920.....I doubt it....probably you don't even know what it is......both Android and Windows Phone 8 has some really cool stuff.
> 
> Oh well, this is like talking to a brick wall


Absolutely.

Sign me up. A very proud Sheep. A Happy Sheep.

I have an iPhone, the wife and kids have iPhone's, a bunch of family and friends have iPhones, it's fabulous.

iMessage is great, we love group chatting while we're in different geographies.

Find My Friends is great, we can always track each other down.

Total integration with our iPad's is great, especially the App compatibility and iMessage integration.

Everything can be projected on the TV with Apple TV, it's all linked together.

We can share contacts, and soon share Photo's, with Photostream sharing.

Photostream in general is great ... I snap a photo and seconds later it's on my iPad and PC, and now my wife's iPad as well if I share it ... and Photostream on the Apple TV for family viewing on the big HD screen.

And the second that they release a newer Operating System, I click and I get it on my device, and the whole family gets it at the same instant. No dependence on the wireless carrier.

This stuff couldn't be better, or easier .... since we all have the same stuff ... and the more people that get iPhone's then the better it gets because we all have identical gadgets, that work in perfect harmony within the Apple ecosystem.

And almost every App known to man is available, and comes out on iOS usually first, including every DirecTV App.

And upgrading every year is fabulous, easy to transition, guaranteed once a year the latest-and-greatest ... I backup on the old device and restore to the new device, cool as can be.

And there's also other options for people that prefer other stuff, who prefer Android or Blackberry or whatever.

But for me ... I love being a Sheep. Sign me up, it couldn't be better just the way it is ... with a new upgrade every year.


----------



## Chris Blount

Rob77 said:


> All you Apple Fan Boys are like a bunch of sheep...you follow along and take comfort in what Apple tells you to do and your fellow sheep give you comfort that you are doing the right thing.
> 
> WAKE UP and see what other alternatives are out there. Have any of you even considered the Nokia 920.....I doubt it....probably you don't even know what it is......both Android and Windows Phone 8 has some really cool stuff.
> 
> Oh well, this is like talking to a brick wall


 Of course we look at what else is out there.  The thing that most Apple haters don't understand is that their devices all work together as an ecosystem. If I switched to another type of phone, it would immediately be orphaned from the rest of my gadgets. Not good since I rely on each device to do it's job and sync with my other devices.

I get a kick out of people who hate Apple. Usually they have not even tried one of their phones or computers and just hate them for the sake of hate. Cracks me up.


----------



## Laxguy

Rob77 said:


> All you Apple Fan Boys are like a bunch of sheep...you follow along and take comfort in what Apple tells you to do and your fellow sheep give you comfort that you are doing the right thing.
> 
> WAKE UP and see what other alternatives are out there. Have any of you even considered the Nokia 920.....I doubt it....probably you don't even know what it is......both Android and Windows Phone 8 has some really cool stuff.
> 
> Oh well, this is like talking to a brick wall


So, why bother? Go into the Ford forum and talk about how great is Yugo, might as well.

I love Sixto's post; I don't have enough patience to write such a piece.

If I be a sheeple, then, a single baaaaaaaaaaah to you, Sir!


----------



## naijai

Chris Blount said:


> Of course we look at what else is out there.  The thing that most Apple haters don't understand is that their devices all work together as an ecosystem. If I switched to another type of phone, it would immediately be orphaned from the rest of my gadgets. Not good since I rely on each device to do it's job and sync with my other devices.
> 
> I get a kick out of people who hate Apple. Usually they have not even tried one of their phones or computers and just hate them for the sake of hate. Cracks me up.


I have to concede to the fact that Apple's ecosystem is very well planned and the integration is excellent but i am Windows fan all the way because Microsfot had an ecosytem they should have built on years ago but let Apple get ahead and dominate the market really quick. THey are getting there with Windows 8, XBOX, Windows Phone & Skydrive. I do have an iPad , which will be replaced by a Surface Tablet eventually, so i understand why those who stand by Apple do so and will not Judge (only make fun ) anyone who make the decision on which platform to go with Windows, iOS or Android :nono2:


----------



## dpeters11

The fragmentation of Android is one of the things that irritates me. IOS 6 even works on the 3GS. The way they used to treat iPod Touch users used to really irritate me though. Fortunately those days are gone.


----------



## jdskycaster

So we have the three 4s phones and three ipads and they are useful once they are jailbroken. So yes, I think they are good devices but not inside the apple ecosystem like many seem to be hooked on. 

I happen to despise itunes after being a zune user for so many years but connection and control of an ithing in my auto's has become the standard so using an ipod or iphone in the car is a bit more convenient than using a zune.


----------



## Garyunc

The people who hate Apple remind of the people who hated Michael Jordan when he was he was the best player in the NBA  

Love my iphone and ipad but I prefer a windows laptop any day of the week. Had a mac and was not happy with it. So I am not a total fan boy but I do love the iphones and the upgrade looks good to me.


----------



## Sixto

All Windows 7 Pro here too.


----------



## dmurphy

Holding off for now (whoa!)

Haven't wrung enough out of the matching his-n-hers iPhone 4 handsets to spend $600 replacing them ... ($299/each)

I did just switch to the VZW 'Share Everything' plan so I can upgrade anytime I'm ready; I'm actually saving $15-18/mo by switching, and I've never, ever used more than 2gb of data in a month. 

If I come close to my 4gb limit, I'll switch on the LTE MiFi and keep going. Shouldn't be an issue - wifi is almost everywhere I am, and I expect that to significantly improve over time ....l

No reason for me to upgrade yet, but nice to know I can if I need to.


----------



## djlong

Full disclosure - I'm a Windows developer. Up until last year, I'd had Windows smartphone exclusively since 2005 when I combined my cell phone and WinCE Axim X5 by buying a Palm Treo 700w. I'd been a Verizon Wireless customer since 1990. Last year, when all my contracts were up on my family plan, I made the switch to Sprint and the iPhone for all three of us because of price, usability and the App ecosystem. Not to be insulting but my wife has gotten SO much more use out of her iPhone than her HTC Ozone (which Verizon had a mandatory $30/mo surcharge because it COULD be a smartphone - never mind that she didn't want the feature - just the phone becuase of it's size and keyboard).

I'm one year into my 4s ownership and I'm happy with the iPhone 5. I'm glad that they didn't jump on the NFC bandwagon as I'm not sure that's really going to take off - I think people are going to have too many privacy concerns, imagined or otherwise.

They improved the screen, the battery life, the operating system and, now that LTE has had some time to gain traction, they've added that. And notice how they waited until they had a chip that wouldn't drain your battery in minutes?

I'm going to get iOS 6. I like that. Microsoft lied to me when they said that my HTC Touch Pro 2 would get WinMo 7 - then they said it wouldn't, and WinMo 7 wouldn't be upward compatible - and WinMo 8 will obsolete all that.. Verizon lost a 21 year customer paying over $200/mo becuase of all that.

Android is the only real competition. When you see an ad for something, there's always the "Get our App in the AppStore" and MOST of the time, there's an icon right next to it for an Android version. That, more than anything else got me off of Windows - and remember, I *develop* Windows software. But I *use* a phone.

So I'm happy. I'll get iOS 6 and, next year, when the iPhone 5s or 6 or whatever rolls around, I'll have been on my contract for 2 years. I'll be able to get a new iPhone with the latest bits, plenty of time for accessories to have come out, and my 4s will get iOS 7 (most likely since even the 3GS is getting iOS 6) and it will be my "backup" - if I, my wife or my daughter lose our iPhone or it breaks, etc., we'll have a spare iPhone to activate immediately while waiting for a replacement to arrive.

All in all, it was a good day.

...and I'll probably pick up a pair of those new "ear pods".


----------



## Steve

djlong said:


> ...and I'll probably pick up a pair of those new "ear pods".


Those intrigue me as well. Being a self-proclaimed "audiophile" p), I'm always on the lookout for better quality sound. It's hard to imagine Apple's figured something out in an affordable design that the dedicated audio guys haven't, but there's always hope!


----------



## Herdfan

Chris Blount said:


> Of course we look at what else is out there.  The thing that most Apple haters don't understand is that their devices all work together as an ecosystem. If I switched to another type of phone, it would immediately be orphaned from the rest of my gadgets. Not good since I rely on each device to do it's job and sync with my other devices.


+1 Spot on!

Yes there are other ways to get similar things, but Apple just makes stuff that works well together.

Back when I had the original iPhone and the first Droids were coming out, I did go look at one. Wasn't impressed. Had the Galaxy III been out then, I may have been more impressed, but it wasn't. Turns out it was just copied from the iPhone.

Stuart,

My Home button on my original 4 is getting a little flaky as well. I will pre-order from ATT tomorrow. With the 4, I got it a day early. Hoping at least I get it on Friday and not have to wait until Monday.

Now LifeProof just needs to get a case for it.


----------



## 4HiMarks

djlong said:


> I'd been a Verizon Wireless customer since 1990.


This is a very good trick since Verizon Wireless didn't begin operations until April 4, 2000.


----------



## Nick

Verizon was many things before it became Verizon: PacTel, AirTouch, ad infinitum...


----------



## TBlazer07

4HiMarks said:


> This is a very good trick since Verizon Wireless didn't begin operations until April 4, 2000.


 You're playing with semantics. That's like saying AT&T Wireless didn't begin until 2007. Obviously he meant he was with the company that eventually became Verizon Wireless. I've been with "what is now called" AT&T Wireless since the late 80's through umpteen different transitions of corporations & names. I think my very first "commercial mobile phone" service was with Nynex which also eventually became VZW back in the early 80's. Before there were handhelds.


----------



## Herdfan

TBlazer07 said:


> That's like saying AT&T Wireless didn't begin until 2007.


I have actually been with AT&T twice. First I was with ICN (Independent Cellular Network which later became Alltel which here was swallowed up by VW) Then Cellular One came to the area and a friend from college was doing sales for them so to help him out, I switched to them. They got swallowed up by AT&T at some point in the mid 90's, so I became an AT&T Wireless customer for the first time. The in 2004, AT&T Wireless merged with Cingular and I became a Cingular customer. Then in 2007 or so, AT&T acquired Bell South and their interest in Cingular and it was renamed AT&T.

So I have been with my cellular service (say 92) longer than I have been with DirecTV (Sept 1994). I guess you could say I don't like to change. 

And my buddy who I helped out way back then, is now head of sales in our territory. So I do have an inside contact if I need one.


----------



## Alan Gordon

Rob77 said:


> All you Apple Fan Boys are like a bunch of sheep...you follow along and take comfort in what Apple tells you to do and your fellow sheep give you comfort that you are doing the right thing.
> 
> WAKE UP and see what other alternatives are out there. Have any of you even considered the Nokia 920.....I doubt it....probably you don't even know what it is......both Android and Windows Phone 8 has some really cool stuff.
> 
> Oh well, this is like talking to a brick wall


I'm an Android user... I want to switch to the iPhone. 

~Alan


----------



## RunnerFL

Alan Gordon said:


> I'm an Android user... I want to switch to the iPhone.


And we welcome you to the fold. I'll teach you the handshake later.


----------



## Alan Gordon

RunnerFL said:


> And we welcome you to the fold. I'll teach you the handshake later.


Good... because becoming an iPad (2) owner apparently wasn't enough to warrant the instruction! 

~Alan


----------



## HDJulie

I put ICS on my Touchpad to try Android. When I did that, I discovered that I am officially "old". Despite having a Masters in CS, working as a programmer for almost 20 years, & always wanting the newest gadgets, I could not figure out how to do most things in Android. It was just too much effort . 

I'm ordering my iPhone 5 from AT&T tomorrow.


----------



## Steve

Alan Gordon said:


> Good... because becoming an iPad (2) owner apparently wasn't enough to warrant the instruction!


Big difference now is you only shake with 2 fingers, instead of all 5 (required for the older iOS devices).


----------



## Nick

Rumor has it that the official iPhone 5 owner handshake consists of a single digit, directed toward Redmond.


----------



## Rich

Alan Gordon said:


> I was thinking of my Samsung smartphone when I posted that...
> 
> ~Alan


That's interesting. My Droid X just keeps chugging along and I was considering a Sammy. Not a big fan of anything Sammy except for their BD players and I've been worrying about making the wrong choice. The new iPhone has the same size screen as my Droid X. My wife has an iPhone 4S and it's too small for me. I'm just used to a larger screen.

Rich


----------



## Laxguy

Alan Gordon said:


> Good... because becoming an iPad (2) owner apparently wasn't enough to warrant the instruction!
> 
> ~Alan


Your avatar shows a full head of hair. Did Apple not send you the head shaving kit??


----------



## Laxguy

Rich said:


> That's interesting. My Droid X just keeps chugging along and I was considering a Sammy. Not a big fan of anything Sammy except for their BD players and I've been worrying about making the wrong choice. The new iPhone has the same size screen as my Droid X. My wife has an iPhone 4S and it's too small for me. I'm just used to a larger screen.
> 
> Rich


Why not just use an iPad with Skype?! :eek2:


----------



## Rich

Chris Blount said:


> Of course we look at what else is out there.  The thing that most Apple haters don't understand is that their devices all work together as an ecosystem. If I switched to another type of phone, it would immediately be orphaned from the rest of my gadgets. Not good since I rely on each device to do it's job and sync with my other devices.
> 
> I get a kick out of people who hate Apple. Usually they have not even tried one of their phones or computers and just hate them for the sake of hate. Cracks me up.


First disagreement with you. Had to happen sometime. I wouldn't trade my Droid for my wife's 4S. I don't have any use for an iPad, gave it to my son and I'm happy with my Windows computers. I used Macs for years at work and loved them, but the prices...always the prices. I do understand the Mac tax.

All that said, the new iPhone interests me. The screen is as large as my Droid's, which was the largest one I could find when I bought it. The NY Daily News has a real size picture of the 5 in today's issue and it's the same size as my Droid. Same size screen, I mean.

Rich


----------



## trdrjeff

You Droid X screen is still larger than the Iphone 5, 4.3" vs 4"

I too was hesitant to go to Sammy after owning a Motorola DX, but so far I am happy with the Galaxy Nexus. But I am watching for a GSM version of the RAZR/HD now that I am on Tmo Prepaid


----------



## Rich

TBlazer07 said:


> You're playing with semantics. That's like saying AT&T Wireless didn't begin until 2007. Obviously he meant he was with the company that eventually became Verizon Wireless. I've been with "what is now called" AT&T Wireless since the late 80's through umpteen different transitions of corporations & names. I think my very first "commercial mobile phone" service was with Nynex which also eventually became VZW back in the early 80's. Before there were handhelds.


AT&T cheaper than Verizon? My wife doesn't get as good reception with her AT&T 4S as I do with my Verizon Droid, but I'd get a lot of pleasure if I could drop Verizon. How's the reception on your phone with AT&T?

Rich


----------



## Rich

Laxguy said:


> Why not just use an iPad with Skype?! :eek2:


Don't have any use for a tablet. Bothers me, but there it is. My son uses Skype on my/his iPad.

He really uses the iPad.

Rich


----------



## Rich

trdrjeff said:


> You Droid X screen is still larger than the Iphone 5, 4.3" vs 4"


Then the picture in the News is wrong. I've measured both every way I could think of and the i5 is just a tad bigger each time. I guess I'll have to wait until I can get my hands on a 5 and compare the sizes then. Close enough to interest me in any event.



> I too was hesitant to go to Sammy after owning a Motorola DX, but so far I am happy with the Galaxy Nexus. But I am watching for a GSM version of the RAZR/HD now that I am on Tmo Prepaid


I was at a recital recently and I was recording portions of it and the woman in front of me had the Sammy III and the picture was much better on hers than mine. That's what led me to considering a Sammy. Both screens looked about the same size.

Rich


----------



## TBoneit

I can understand having a camera for one reason. If you are involved in a car accident pictures, pictures, pictures. They do help (Unless you were at fault).

I do not, and this in my opinion, see a need for a mobile phone just to be able to call 911. Unless it is a 911 only phone with no monthly fees. No desire in my case for any of the service mentioned by Stewart. I have a Laptop, no webcam fortunately. No interest in anything, including a tablet, with no keyboard. I'm not interested in paying those fees just for a wireless phone.

My landline was still working 4 days later when power was restored. I didn't need to use a car charger or take a charger to work to keep the battery up. It just worked.


----------



## RasputinAXP

Any cell phone will work for emergency 911 as long as it's got power. By law.


----------



## Alan Gordon

Rich said:


> That's interesting. My Droid X just keeps chugging along and I was considering a Sammy. Not a big fan of anything Sammy except for their BD players and I've been worrying about making the wrong choice. The new iPhone has the same size screen as my Droid X. My wife has an iPhone 4S and it's too small for me. I'm just used to a larger screen.


I can't speak for the newest Samsung phones. Mine is the Fascinate, and it's a mess.

I wanted the iPhone, but Verizon didn't have it at the time. I had the opportunity to play with the Samsung Captivate, so the Fascinate was a front-runner. I tried the Incredible and Droid X, but I wasn't really impressed. The Incredible felt WAY too dinky for a smart-phone, and the Droid X felt WAY too clunky for my tastes, so I settled on the Fascinate.

I went in with some family members on the family plan and we all got a Fascinate. In those early days, it worked pretty good, but future updates made mess after mess of the phone. One of the phones is broken, so I don't know what would have happened with it, but two of the phones have "burn-in"... well, they don't actually, but the phone LOOKS like it does.

My main issues with my phone is reliability.


Mine repeatedly locks up... which sucks when you're trying to do something like answer a call or text someone. One of the other phones experiences this quite often as well, though not as much as mine.

Mine reboots itself three or four times a day. One of the other phones experiences this quite often as well, though not as much as mine.

Whether it's due to the lockups or reboots, I will sometimes not know that someone is calling me or sent me a text until some time later.

The stock Messaging app is ridiculous. I will have someone text me and not know it. I later found that if you get a third party texting app, it will solve the issue. One of the phones is having to use a third party texting app as well... not really for the missing texts, but every time they use the stock one, it will send out 100 texts of the same thing.

Battery life. The multiple reboots really take a bite out of the battery life... not that it's great without them... because using apps for 10 minutes drains the battery something fierce.

Notifications. Granted, this is partially the apps fault, and the last couple of versions of iOS 5.x on my iPad haven't been as reliable as it once was, but my phone's pretty bad about them.

I've read multiple other people with this phone experiencing the same issues, and I don't believe the Galaxy SII or SIII has experienced the same amount of issues, so I suspect shoppers of the newer phones may find the Samsung appealing, and I suspect they are good phones. I personally have been tainted by the experience, and would be hesitant to buy another Samsung phone even though I feel I would be safe with the newer models. My iPAD 2 has been a (mostly) wonderful experience... so between that and the ability to sync some of my iPad, iPhone, and Apple TV stuff, as well as other aspects of the user experience, I'm really hoping to work out a way to get an iPhone 5. Though I'm eligible for an upgrade now, it will be a couple of months before I will make a decision given that my monthly bill would increase... and I'm not sure I can justify the added expense.



Laxguy said:


> Your avatar shows a full head of hair. Did Apple not send you the head shaving kit??


They decided to let time do it for me I guess! 

~Alan


----------



## Alan Gordon

TBoneit said:


> I do not, and this in my opinion, see a need for a mobile phone just to be able to call 911.


You can consider yourself lucky then... 



TBoneit said:


> My landline was still working 4 days later when power was restored. I didn't need to use a car charger or take a charger to work to keep the battery up. It just worked.


That's great! 

~Alan


----------



## TBlazer07

Rich said:


> AT&T cheaper than Verizon? My wife doesn't get as good reception with her AT&T 4S as I do with my Verizon Droid, but I'd get a lot of pleasure if I could drop Verizon. How's the reception on your phone with AT&T?
> 
> Rich


 HUH? Methinks you replied to the wrong person. :grin:


----------



## dpeters11

For 4S owners, tell Siri that you want to buy an iPhone tomorrow. The definition of Apple store is quite loose. I never knew one was in my neighborhood. iPhone with a bagel.


----------



## NR4P

Decided to go for the iphone 5. Time to give up my Torch for work use. I've liked LTE and since the 5 has it, I'll jump. Order should be going in after midnight tonight if my buddies don't let me down.


----------



## RunnerFL

NR4P said:


> Decided to go for the iphone 5. Time to give up my Torch for work use. I've liked LTE and since the 5 has it, I'll jump. Order should be going in after midnight tonight if my buddies don't let me down.


You'll have to wait until 3:01am.


----------



## Herdfan

That was quite easy.

Black 32G ordered from AT&T.


----------



## RunnerFL

Pretty easy here too. I used the Apple Store app and got through pretty quick.

...is it the 21st yet?


----------



## MikeW

Apple store won't move past the continue button when I select upgrade a current phone on AT*T. AT*T won't let me past the Upgrade Now screen. Been trying for about 15 minutes. Should have been paying attention at midnight..I suppose.


----------



## Chris Blount

That was quick! I woke up about 30 minutes after pre-orders started. Got on the iPad Apple store app. Took less than a minute. Went right back to sleep.


----------



## Chris Blount

Shipping has already pushed to 2 weeks. If you didn't get one early this morning, you will have to wait.


----------



## dennisj00

Wife tried ordering via ATT site on her macbookpro from 3- 6 and it kept failing at the purchase. She went to Apple store around 6 and it was either pickup at the store or 2 week shipping.

I then tried the ATT site and while it was slow got two ordered for 21st delivery.


----------



## Chris Blount

dennisj00 said:


> Wife tried ordering via ATT site on her macbookpro from 3- 6 and it kept failing at the purchase. She went to Apple store around 6 and it was either pickup at the store or 2 week shipping.
> 
> I then tried the ATT site and while it was slow got two ordered for 21st delivery.


 That's great! Seems the carriers are able to fill the orders for the 21st that Apple can't. It was a fluke that I ordered this morning. I didn't set an alarm or anything but I happen to wake up just in time. Reached over and grabbed my iPad just to see what would happen (was expecting the servers to be bogged down). Order went right through in seconds.


----------



## Herdfan

Chris Blount said:


> Order went right through in seconds.


Mine did too. I had both the Apple and AT&T sites up in tabs before I went to bed. Tried the Apple site first and the store was still not open. Went to the AT&T site and it had a link for the Pre-Order on the front page, clicked it and from there maybe 2 minutes and I was done.

Much better than when I order the 4. That took multiple tries with it slow and hanging etc. Of course, that IIRC was around 8 am, not 3 am.


----------



## klang

I'm in for a black 16G for AT&T. Looks like two weeks. Site is kinda messed up, it wouldn't let me change the shipping address to my office. I'll go back in and change it once things settle down.

That is my one minor gripe, they insist on shipping stuff 'signature required'.


----------



## Laxguy

NBC did a piece on the new phone, citing "outrage" at the change in connectors. Well, of course some will be upset that some/most/all of their existing third party equipment will be obsolete. But "outrage"?!! How little does it take? :nono:


----------



## Cholly

Apple has stoppec accepting preorders for the Iphone 5 - supply line drained in 8 hours.

http://www.computerworld.com/s/arti...upplies_in_an_hour?source=rss_keyword_edpicks


----------



## RunnerFL

Laxguy said:


> NBC did a piece on the new phone, citing "outrage" at the change in connectors. Well, of course some will be upset that some/most/all of their existing third party equipment will be obsolete. But "outrage"?!! How little does it take? :nono:


I think the "outrage" comes from $29 adapters to be able to use your old cables and/or docking devices. It may cost them $1 each to make.

Just for reference the MagSafe adapters to make old MacBook chargers work with the new MacBooks cost $10.


----------



## The Merg

"RunnerFL" said:


> I think the "outrage" comes from $29 adapters to be able to use your old cables and/or docking devices. It may cost them $1 each to make.
> 
> Just for reference the MagSafe adapters to make old MacBook chargers work with the new MacBooks cost $10.


And the new Lightning cable itself is $19, so it's $10 more just for an adapter. Hopefully eBay and Amazon will come through quickly with cheaper versions.

- Merg


----------



## Laxguy

RunnerFL said:


> I think the "outrage" comes from $29 adapters to be able to use your old cables and/or docking devices. It may cost them $1 each to make.
> 
> Just for reference the MagSafe adapters to make old MacBook chargers work with the new MacBooks cost $10.


Yes, and I have one. As well as having a $29 thunderbolt-> Firewire800 adaptor.

Here, I think the $29 price for an adaptor of that sort is extreme; you are right. But I'll save my outrage for real things.... And since I am being, shall we say, spartan, in holding off on the phone, when I do jump, prices will have come down.


----------



## RunnerFL

The Merg said:


> And the new Lightning cable itself is $19, so it's $10 more just for an adapter. Hopefully eBay and Amazon will come through quickly with cheaper versions.
> 
> - Merg


I wouldn't hold my breath. I read a couple of weeks ago that Apple is refusing to release licensing for the new adapter until 2013. Didn't say when in 2013 though. No cheapies for a while...

This isn't the same article but it's the same info:

http://appleinsider.com/articles/12...ck_to_cost_10_cables_will_be_19___report.html

And just to add to this... They've sued anyone that's made a cheaper MagSafe adapter so far.


----------



## RunnerFL

Laxguy said:


> Yes, and I have one. As well as having a $29 thunderbolt-> Firewire800 adaptor.
> 
> Here, I think the $29 price for an adaptor of that sort is extreme; you are right. But I'll save my outrage for real things.... And since I am being, shall we say, spartan, in holding off on the phone, when I do jump, prices will have come down.


Well you also have to realize that "outrage" is a relative term. We both clearly don't think this is "outrage" but we know how the media likes to inflate things.


----------



## TBlazer07

The worst part is I wanted to switch to VZW because their LTE is all over the place and the cheapest plan they have would cost $110 (after taxes and BS fees). AT&T (with no LTE in my area) I can get setup for well under $70 w/taxes and BS fees with 3gig data (no text but I'll use GV). Speaking of text, the only ATT text plan for $20 is also absurd. Seriously VZW, $110 minimum. Ridiculous.

BTW, for any gray panthers out there who may care, AT&T has a $29.95 voice plan with 200 minutes if you are 65 or older and don't talk a lot. 

I guess for now I will stick with my Galaxy Nexus on T-Mo prepaid with unlimited text, 5Gigs data and (PLENTY for me) 100 minutes voice for $29/mo with no taxes or fees. :lol: 

T-Mo will soon have HSPA+ for the iPhone (and other ATT devices) here. When that happens I'll buy an iPhone outright. Not sure if I could deal with edge speeds at this time.


----------



## Steve

TBlazer07 said:


> I guess for now I will stick with my Galaxy Nexus on T-Mo prepaid with unlimited text, 5Gigs data and (PLENTY for me) 100 minutes voice for $29/mo with no taxes or fees. :lol:


My son-in-law's upgrading his 4 to a 5, so I may take his old 4 and give that T-Mo plan a try myself. 100 minutes talk is plenty for me too. I think it's actually unlimited data, but only 4G for the first 5 Gigs. Whether or not it drops to 3G or 2G after that, I'm no sure.


----------



## dennisj00

The jump in the already absurb price of $5 for 200 texts to $20 is even more absurd.

After the dust settles next week, I'm going to call and see if one of the unlimited sharing plans won't work better. We never get close to talk minutes.


----------



## TBlazer07

Steve said:


> My son-in-law's upgrading his 4 to a 5, so I may take his old 4 and give that T-Mo plan a try myself. 100 minutes talk is plenty for me too. I think it's actually unlimited data, but only 4G for the first 5 Gigs. Whether or not it drops to 3G or 2G after that, I'm no sure.


 Correct, "unlimited" to 5GIG then allegedly down to Edge. Most I ever use is 800MB and that's 95% from Pandora when I am out every morning walk/running.

My wife has a 4 on T-Mo PPM (no data) but the E or 3/4G icon still shows. Soon as I see that go to 3/4G I'll probably switch. She is on the minute plan and for ~$97 she gets 1,000 mins and/or texts good basically forever or until she uses them up (which could be forever 'cause she's also 65)! They have lasted almost 3yrs for her so far. The 1000 mins are good for a year then you can add $10 and it extends the whole thing for another full year. So for the last almost 4 years her account has cost me about $125 total or around $41/yr vs ATT/VZW rates even as a add-a-line. :lol:


----------



## TBlazer07

dennisj00 said:


> The jump in the already absurb price of $5 for 200 texts to $20 is even more absurd.
> 
> After the dust settles next week, I'm going to call and see if one of the unlimited sharing plans won't work better. We never get close to talk minutes.


The cheapest sharing account is around $105 on either carrier for one line then add $45 for add'l lines (+ BS taxes and fees). The "sharing plans" are also a ripoff for MOST 1 or 2 line people. If you're 65 look at the 200 min/$30 ATT plan.


----------



## RunnerFL

TBlazer07 said:


> The worst part is I wanted to switch to VZW because their LTE is all over the place and the cheapest plan they have would cost $110 (after taxes and BS fees). AT&T (with no LTE in my area) I can get setup for well under $70 w/taxes and BS fees with 3gig data (no text but I'll use GV). Speaking of text, the only ATT text plan for $20 is also absurd. Seriously VZW, $110 minimum. Ridiculous.


You wouldn't want to go to Verizon anyways, you STILL can't talk and surf at the same time on their iPhone even with LTE. I found that out at the last moment and it's a good thing because I was going to switch to Sprint for the iPhone 5. I'm glad I didn't now.


----------



## dpeters11

I'd like to see the iFixit report on the adapters. I have a feeling that its more than just a simple cable.


----------



## RunnerFL

dpeters11 said:


> I'd like to see the iFixit report on the adapters. I have a feeling that its more than just a simple cable.


I have a feeling you're right.


----------



## RunnerFL

Now this is interesting. I guess a 30pin to Lightning adapter comes with the phone, along with a new cable. I didn't see that on my order using the Apple Store app.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/09/14/apple-iphone-5-free-lightning-adapter/


----------



## TBlazer07

RunnerFL said:


> Now this is interesting. I guess a 30pin to Lightning adapter comes with the phone, along with a new cable. I didn't see that on my order using the Apple Store app.
> 
> http://www.engadget.com/2012/09/14/apple-iphone-5-free-lightning-adapter/


Read your link again. Update: No it won't.


----------



## RunnerFL

TBlazer07 said:


> Read your link again. Update: No it won't.


Yeah, I see that now. I really need to learn to read entire articles not just up until the part I like. :lol:


----------



## TBlazer07

RunnerFL said:


> You wouldn't want to go to Verizon anyways, you STILL can't talk and surf at the same time on their iPhone even with LTE. I found that out at the last moment and it's a good thing because I was going to switch to Sprint for the iPhone 5. I'm glad I didn't now.


 Never ever needed to talk & surf at the same time. I'm too old for that anyway. I can only do one thing at a time. :lol:

My feeling is this. Been on AT&T for many many years up until I switched to T-Mo pp early this year. AT&T's 3G & HSPA+ data has always been horrendous on whatever phone I had (and there were many). Usually around 1-2Mb download with pings over and above 1,000ms. Virtually useless be it an iPhone, a Samsung or whatever else I had over the years (on T-Mo $30 pre-paid plan my avg download is 8-12Mb with 20-50ms ping on my G-Nex and my previous GSII).

I have a VZW LTE iPad and get 30-40Mb with 20ms ping 99% of the time. What good is a smartphone if the data is useless? AT&T's network here (northern NJ) is horrendous. Their LTE ends about 2 miles from my house. VZW LTE blankets the state.

Don't need no stinkin' simultaneous voice and data especially if the data barely works.

But I ain't payin $110+/month for VZW, that thievery, so it's a moot point anyway.


----------



## dpeters11

"RunnerFL" said:


> You wouldn't want to go to Verizon anyways, you STILL can't talk and surf at the same time on their iPhone even with LTE. I found that out at the last moment and it's a good thing because I was going to switch to Sprint for the iPhone 5. I'm glad I didn't now.


Wait, you mean these things can make phone calls?! Seriously, sometimes I think that's becoming a secondary function.


----------



## RunnerFL

Nevermind the article, it's from when the new connector was just rumor, but here's a pic of the new connector up close. There's a chip inside so I guess it may cost more than $1 to make one, like I assumed earlier.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/08/10/next-iphone-tiny-docking-connector-possibly-spotted/


----------



## RunnerFL

TBlazer07 said:


> Never ever needed to talk & surf at the same time. I'm too old for that anyway. I can only do one thing at a time. :lol:


Well I'm no youngin' but I'm the exact opposite. I'm lost if I only have one thing to do at a time. I can't ever just sit and watch TV or sit and read a book. I have to be doing more than one thing at a time.



TBlazer07 said:


> But I ain't payin $110+/month for VZW, that thievery, so it's a moot point anyway.


Yeah, their data prices are crazy. I don't even hit $90 after taxes with AT&T and that's with a 3gb data plan.


----------



## djlong

TBlazer07 said:


> You're playing with semantics. That's like saying AT&T Wireless didn't begin until 2007. Obviously he meant he was with the company that eventually became Verizon Wireless. I've been with "what is now called" AT&T Wireless since the late 80's through umpteen different transitions of corporations & names. I think my very first "commercial mobile phone" service was with Nynex which also eventually became VZW back in the early 80's. Before there were handhelds.


Exactly My first mobile phones were in 1990. I had one built into the center console of the '89 Olds Toronado that I'd bought and I inherited the "brick and handset" that my mother had in her car (complete with the then-common curly-base antenna) when she died in '90. I *think* the company was still NYNEX back then but I couldn't swear to it.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

Rob77 said:


> All you Apple Fan Boys are like a bunch of sheep...you follow along and take comfort in what Apple tells you to do and your fellow sheep give you comfort that you are doing the right thing.
> 
> WAKE UP and see what other alternatives are out there. Have any of you even considered the Nokia 920.....I doubt it....probably you don't even know what it is......both Android and Windows Phone 8 has some really cool stuff.
> 
> Oh well, this is like talking to a brick wall


Wow. Interesting post.

Most people here are familiar with all the phones you mentioned. There's nothing wrong with being loyal. I prefer Android but I also have an iPhone.

What you fail to see is all these platforms do basically the same things. They approach it differently, there are unique features, but in the end they all do the same things.

The question is which compromises you're willing to live with and what features you really want. Make no mistake about it; there are some compromises to be made no matter which you choose.

Mike


----------



## Stuart Sweet

I'm saying this everywhere because I hope someone builds one...

If you have a speaker dock, you know it is shaped for the fattest iPod. Make an adapter that fits that exact shape. Put a slanted back on it so the phone doesn't rely on the connector to stand up. The back should write be adjustable or allow for 1-2mm play so the phone can stay in a case.

I would pay $25 so my existing $200 dock isn't obsolete. 

Would you guys agree? Can you imagine what I am talking about?


----------



## Herdfan

dpeters11 said:


> Wait, you mean these things can make phone calls?! Seriously, sometimes I think that's becoming a secondary function.


The way AT&T is pricing their shared data plans, it is. Completely unlimited voice and texts - they get you on the data.


----------



## TBlazer07

Stuart Sweet said:


> I'm saying this everywhere because I hope someone builds one...
> 
> If you have a speaker dock, you know it is shaped for the fattest iPod. Make an adapter that fits that exact shape. Put a slanted back on it so the phone doesn't rely on the connector to stand up. The back should write be adjustable or allow for 1-2mm play so the phone can stay in a case.
> 
> I would pay $25 so my existing $200 dock isn't obsolete.
> 
> Would you guys agree? Can you imagine what I am talking about?


 Won't happen until Apple decides to license the adapter to 3rd party manufacturers. The adapter has a chip in it, it's not a dumb connector.


----------



## Stuart Sweet

I have no doubt you're right and I hope the licensing is in place, since several manufacturers have upcoming products with the new connector, according to the iPhone press event.


----------



## RunnerFL

Stuart Sweet said:


> I have no doubt you're right and I hope the licensing is in place, since several manufacturers have upcoming products with the new connector, according to the iPhone press event.


Here's some pretty good info on the new connector.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2409737,00.asp

It appears as though even if you get one of Apple's adapters you still may not have all the functions of your docking device.

And Apple is saying Lightning to HDMI and Lighting to VGA adapters are "arriving soon".

http://www.geeky-gadgets.com/apple-lightning-port-to-hdmi-and-vga-adapters-arriving-soon-14-09-2012/

And iPhone 5 buyers who live in countries in the EU are getting lightning to microUSB adapters to comply with EU laws:

http://theultralinx.com/2012/09/apple-lightning-vs-microusb.html


----------



## Herdfan

Ahhhhhhh!

I just occurred to me that I am leaving town - next Friday. Phone is supposed to arrive on Friday. Wife says we can't delay our anniversary trip for a phone. Grrrrr.

Maybe it will arrive a day early like my 4 did.


----------



## Rich

Herdfan said:


> Ahhhhhhh!
> 
> I just occurred to me that I am leaving town - next Friday. Phone is supposed to arrive on Friday. *Wife says we can't delay our anniversary trip for a phone*. Grrrrr.
> 
> Maybe it will arrive a day early like my 4 did.


Whipped? :lol:

Rich


----------



## The Merg

"RunnerFL" said:


> Here's some pretty good info on the new connector.
> 
> http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2409737,00.asp
> 
> It appears as though even if you get one of Apple's adapters you still may not have all the functions of your docking device.
> 
> And Apple is saying Lightning to HDMI and Lighting to VGA adapters are "arriving soon".
> 
> http://www.geeky-gadgets.com/apple-lightning-port-to-hdmi-and-vga-adapters-arriving-soon-14-09-2012/
> 
> And iPhone 5 buyers who live in countries in the EU are getting lightning to microUSB adapters to comply with EU laws:
> 
> http://theultralinx.com/2012/09/apple-lightning-vs-microusb.html


That whole video out/iPod out lack of functionality will really stink for a lot of people. Hopefully, with the adapter I'll still be able to use the iPhone in my Sonata. I'm not sure if the iPod out functionality is used for the Sonata connector.

- Merg


----------



## dpeters11

I've only heard iPod Out used in BMW and Mini. They say audio and such will work, but will no longer be able to play videos (was available when stationary) and would lose the mirrored iPod interface.


----------



## Laxguy

dpeters11 said:


> I've only heard iPod Out used in BMW and Mini. They say audio and such will work, but will no longer be able to play videos (was available when stationary) and would lose the mirrored iPod interface.


Can't those work via Bluetooth?


----------



## dpeters11

I didn't think Bluetooth could do video. And I think iPod out was analog video.


----------



## dpeters11

"Herdfan" said:


> Ahhhhhhh!
> 
> I just occurred to me that I am leaving town - next Friday. Phone is supposed to arrive on Friday. Wife says we can't delay our anniversary trip for a phone. Grrrrr.
> 
> Maybe it will arrive a day early like my 4 did.


They are starting to ship out from China.


----------



## RunnerFL

The Merg said:


> That whole video out/iPod out lack of functionality will really stink for a lot of people. Hopefully, with the adapter I'll still be able to use the iPhone in my Sonata. I'm not sure if the iPod out functionality is used for the Sonata connector.
> 
> - Merg


Yeah, I'm hoping it still works with my car setup. I know I can use bluetooth to stream it but it's nice to plug in the iPhone and have my head unit control the iPhone. If not I guess I'll have to ressurect an old iPod and use that. Not the end of the world, just a minor PITA.


----------



## Laxguy

RunnerFL said:


> Yeah, I'm hoping it still works with my car setup. I know I can use bluetooth to stream it but it's nice to plug in the iPhone and have my head unit control the iPhone. If not I guess I'll have to ressurect an old iPod and use that. Not the end of the world, just a minor PITA.


You mean to say you're not *OUTRAGED*?? 

Sounds like a good plan. I do more or less the same, with an older iPod attached by wire, and iPhone via Bluetooth.


----------



## Herdfan

WOW! Has anyone seen the Geekbench scores for this thing? Off the Charts!

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1443297


----------



## dmspen

On the news this morning, they said Apple sold 2 million iPhone 5s on Friday. Current supplies were sold out in an hour. New orders will now be delivered no earlier than Oct.


----------



## klang

Herdfan said:


> WOW! Has anyone seen the Geekbench scores for this thing? Off the Charts!
> 
> http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1443297


Saw that over the weekend. Pretty amazing if true. Hopefully the new processor doesn't run hot. I remember my old iPhone 3, when running Navigon it got too hot to hold.


----------



## Chris Blount

Just checked my UPS tracking. It left China yesterday and arrive in Korea. It left Korea this morning.


----------



## Rich

Here's a pretty good comparison of the Galaxy and iPhone: *Link*.

Rich


----------



## Laxguy

Chris Blount said:


> Just checked my UPS tracking. It left China yesterday and arrive in Korea. It left Korea this morning.


Appropriate, then, that you now do the "Gangnam Style" dance.... :lol:

OK, OK, my first, and maybe last, posting of a link to something viral....


----------



## thelucky1

"Chris Blount" said:


> Just checked my UPS tracking. It left China yesterday and arrive in Korea. It left Korea this morning.


How did you get the tracking number?


----------



## Chris Blount

thelucky1 said:


> How did you get the tracking number?


If it's being sent UPS, you use the following process:

Go to the UPS website
Track by reference 
Put your phone # in under "shipment reference" or your order# minus the last two numbers 
Put your country 
Leave your shipper acct blank. 
Put your zip code

Won't work with FedEX


----------



## RunnerFL

Chris Blount said:


> Just checked my UPS tracking. It left China yesterday and arrive in Korea. It left Korea this morning.


Mine went from ZhengZou, China to Chek Lap Kok, Hong Kong and it left Hong Kong at 9:34pm today, their time.

My Apple account still says "Preparing for shipment". :lol:


----------



## thelucky1

"Chris Blount" said:


> If it's being sent UPS, you use the following process:
> 
> Go to the UPS website
> Track by reference
> Put your phone # in under "shipment reference" or your order# minus the last two numbers
> Put your country
> Leave your shipper acct blank.
> Put your zip code
> 
> Won't work with FedEX


Awesome thx for the info Chris!


----------



## BLWedge09

RunnerFL said:


> Mine went from ZhengZou, China to Chek Lap Kok, Hong Kong and it left Hong Kong at 9:34pm today, their time.
> 
> My Apple account still says "Preparing for shipment". :lol:


Exactly the same here.


----------



## DBSSTEPHEN

the window phone 8 is way better then the iphone 5 is


----------



## RunnerFL

DBSSTEPHEN said:


> the window phone 8 is way better then the iphone 5 is


Nothing windoze is ever better than anything...


----------



## RunnerFL

BLWedge09 said:


> Exactly the same here.


Our phones are hanging out together. :lol:


----------



## DBSSTEPHEN

well i have tested both of the phones and the windows phone worked way better then the iphone 5 did


----------



## BLWedge09

RunnerFL said:


> Our phones are hanging out together. :lol:


Along with probably about a million more... This will be my first iPhone since the original one. I've been on multiple Android handsets for the past several years. I used to love loading different ROMS all the time...now I just want it to work without the hassle. Don't get me wrong, Android devices can be great, but it's just time for a change for me. Plus, it'll fit in nicely with my mac mini and newest generation iPad.

This coming from a guy who had run different flavors of Linux on the desktop exclusively for about the last 8 years. I still run OpenSuse at work (not my first choice for a Linux OS) but also have a MacBook Pro there. The MacBook Pro is probably what made me switch all around...


----------



## DBSSTEPHEN

i have 4 iphone 5s phones and i have 6 windows 8 phones and all of the window 8 phones out worked all 4 iphone 5 phones tht i have


----------



## sigma1914

DBSSTEPHEN said:


> well i have tested both of the phones and the windows phone worked way better then the iphone 5 did





DBSSTEPHEN said:


> i have 4 iphone 5s phones and i have 6 windows 8 phones and all of the window 8 phones out worked all 4 iphone 5 phones tht i have


Where's your test results and pictures?


----------



## DBSSTEPHEN

why does the iphone 5 get so hot 4


----------



## RunnerFL

BLWedge09 said:


> Along with probably about a million more... This will be my first iPhone since the original one. I've been on multiple Android handsets for the past several years. I used to love loading different ROMS all the time...now I just want it to work without the hassle. Don't get me wrong, Android devices can be great, but it's just time for a change for me. Plus, it'll fit in nicely with my mac mini and newest generation iPad.
> 
> This coming from a guy who had run different flavors of Linux on the desktop exclusively for about the last 8 years. I still run OpenSuse at work (not my first choice for a Linux OS) but also have a MacBook Pro there. The MacBook Pro is probably what made me switch all around...


Mine is now in Anchorage, AK.

I've always been a Linux/BSD user, since the early 90s with Slackware. I prefer to stick with Debian flavors now though, mostly Ubuntu and Mint. I'm a Linux Admin by trade. I also have a 2011 mac mini as my main desktop and a 2009 mac mini running Snow Leopard Server.


----------



## Lord Vader

Stuart Sweet said:


> I'm going to order through AT&T, it worked for me last time; I had the phone the first day it became available.
> 
> If all the leaked information is true, I won't be super excited about this phone; I don't need a bigger screen, I don't need a new dock connector. What I need is a phone with a working home button, which is the problem now. Apple did me no favors by postponing the launch event... I've been with my iPhone 4 since June (?) 2010 and it's getting old.
> 
> I would get a 4s but I really want futureproofing. I'm guessing we'll see a faster processor and more RAM.


I'm not one of those Android fanboys who claims Apple sucks, the iPhone sucks, etc., but IMHO, I do think my EVO LTE beats any iPhone out there. I seriously considered an iPhone, but its small screen (even the new one is too small), its many costly apps (that were free on the Android market), but especially the ability to customize very easily my Android phone sold me on staying/going with Android over the iPhone.

Apple makes good products, for sure, but I do believe that some Android phones are overall better than any iPhone.


----------



## sean10780

Chris Blount said:


> If it's being sent UPS, you use the following process:
> 
> Go to the UPS website
> Track by reference
> Put your phone # in under "shipment reference" or your order# minus the last two numbers
> Put your country
> Leave your shipper acct blank.
> Put your zip code
> 
> Won't work with FedEX


Wow thank you, this worked for me. Mine arrived in Alaska today, says it will be here on Friday


----------



## Karen

Mine left Alaska this afternoon. I wish it would report in and tell me where it's going! <g> It's scheduled to be here by the end of the day Friday tho. I hope it doesn't get lost...


----------



## Stuart Sweet

Mine just says preparing for shipping. I ordered from Apple.


----------



## Karen

I believe my iPhone is on this flight. <g>

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/UPS61


----------



## RunnerFL

Stuart Sweet said:


> Mine just says preparing for shipping. I ordered from Apple.


That's all mine says on apple.com as well. If you use Chris' method though you'll find it with UPS.


----------



## The Merg

Ordered from VZW and says it will ship on 09/21. I guess that means I'm not getting it until next week. I even ordered it within an hour of it being available on-line, too.

- Merg


----------



## Stuart Sweet

Yeah, they sold out "just that fast."


----------



## Sixto

My Verizon confirmation e-mail states "Deliver By: 09/21/2012".

I've considered that to mean that it will be delivered by 9/21, not shipped by 9/21.

I did have a conversation with a Verizon rep and their interpretation was different, but I think they're wrong, but we'll see ...


----------



## dpeters11

If anyone did the Gazelle deal where they locked in the price in August, they changed the terms. Before you had to ship the old one by October 1, they changed it to the 10th.


----------



## dpeters11

"Lord Vader" said:


> I'm not one of those Android fanboys who claims Apple sucks, the iPhone sucks, etc., but IMHO, I do think my EVO LTE beats any iPhone out there. I seriously considered an iPhone, but its small screen (even the new one is too small), its many costly apps (that were free on the Android market), but especially the ability to customize very easily my Android phone sold me on staying/going with Android over the iPhone.
> 
> Apple makes good products, for sure, but I do believe that some Android phones are overall better than any iPhone.


The app difference I think is more an ecosystem difference. Developers found that Android users are less likely to buy an app, even if its $1-$2. So even really popular ones like Rovio's games are generally ad supported instead.

My main beef is in having to support Android phones, that not all are good. Some of my users seem to think a Huawei is similar to a Galaxy S3.


----------



## The Merg

"Sixto" said:


> My Verizon confirmation e-mail states "Deliver By: 09/21/2012".
> 
> I've considered that to mean that it will be delivered by 9/21, not shipped by 9/21.
> 
> I did have a conversation with a Verizon rep and their interpretation was different, but I think they're wrong, but we'll see ...


I just checked and my e-mail states delivery by 09/21, but the on-line confirmation states shipping on 09/21.

- Merg


----------



## Karen

According to UPS tracking, mine is in Kentucky now. I think it might be on this flight to Sacramento tomorrow. 

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/UPS960/history/20120918/0729Z/KSDF/KMHR

I'm sure it will be held until Friday tho...


----------



## RunnerFL

Karen said:


> According to UPS tracking, mine is in Kentucky now. I think it might be on this flight to Sacramento tomorrow.
> 
> http://flightaware.com/live/flight/UPS960/history/20120918/0729Z/KSDF/KMHR
> 
> I'm sure it will be held until Friday tho...


If they do like they did with the new iPads they'll sit in Kentucky until the night before delivery.


----------



## wingrider01

DBSSTEPHEN said:


> well i have tested both of the phones and the windows phone worked way better then the iphone 5 did


Have to agree with you, our developers are re-writing all of the vertical market code that we use the ipad and iphone for to utilize the new Windows 8 mobile phones and window 8 tablets, the OS and the hardware are far more adaptable to the applications - and we don.t have to deal with apple devloper support nor keep two different sets of code. We should be appleless by the end of the year


----------



## Nick

I checked -- my new iPhone5 is still under construction in a sweatshop somewhere in Bangwang, China, with an estimated delivery date of NEVER! :nono2:


----------



## dpeters11

wingrider01 said:


> Have to agree with you, our developers are re-writing all of the vertical market code that we use the ipad and iphone for to utilize the new Windows 8 mobile phones and window 8 tablets, the OS and the hardware are far more adaptable to the applications - and we don.t have to deal with apple devloper support nor keep two different sets of code. We should be appleless by the end of the year


I just want to know how he got hold of one already...

All my users that have Windows Phone devices love it. But it just hasn't taken off. One problem I have is in terms of the apps, for Windows Phone 8, they still have not opened up the SDK. It's not making developers very happy.


----------



## Chris Blount

RunnerFL said:


> If they do like they did with the new iPads they'll sit in Kentucky until the night before delivery.


 I agree. Mine is in Kentucky as well. It probably won't leave until Thursday night.


----------



## Chris Blount

Nick said:


> I checked -- my new iPhone5 is still under construction in a sweatshop somewhere in Bangwang, China, with an estimated delivery date of NEVER! :nono2:


 What's wrong Nick? Too much excitement for you?


----------



## Karen

RunnerFL said:


> If they do like they did with the new iPads they'll sit in Kentucky until the night before delivery.


Yeah, it didn't show up last night! <g> It looks like Apple isn't even giving shipping notices until it leaves Kentucky. According to the website, it's still being processed.


----------



## Chris Blount

Karen said:


> Yeah, it didn't show up last night! <g> It looks like Apple isn't even giving shipping notices until it leaves Kentucky. According to the website, it's still being processed.


 That kind of sucks too because for those who follow their shipping status on the Apple site and know it comes from China, they would be worried right now thinking that it hasn't left China yet.


----------



## Stuart Sweet

I'm not worried, even though my phone still says preparing for shipping. That could simply mean it's sitting in a warehouse in Cupertino.


----------



## Laxguy

Stuart Sweet said:


> I'm not worried, even though my phone still says preparing for shipping. That could simply mean it's sitting in a warehouse in Cupertino.


Or Long Beach! (?) Or whatever the So. Cal distribution city is. ....


----------



## Stuart Sweet

Yeah now that you mention it there is a lot of stuff that comes into Long Beach from China. It's a huge port, not far from lacrosse airport


----------



## dpeters11

My wife's is sitting in the Memphis Fedex hub, ordered through Verizon.


----------



## RunnerFL

Stuart Sweet said:


> Yeah now that you mention it there is a lot of stuff that comes into Long Beach from China. It's a huge port, not far from lacrosse airport


It wouldn't come into a port, it's not coming by ship. Talk about a slow boat from China... :lol:


----------



## Stuart Sweet

Well, who knows. I mean, as far as I know the thing is already in a box at the local Fedex facility under lock and key. I mean no one really knows.


----------



## Stuart Sweet

Wait, the iPhone 5 has all this cool stuff?

Seriously shame on that channel for doing zero research.


----------



## Laxguy

RunnerFL said:


> It wouldn't come into a port, it's not coming by ship. Talk about a slow boat from China... :lol:


Don't forget that it's right near my airport! Great distribution centers have access to plane, train and truck terminals. 
But, hail yeah, it could be on a truck from Bakersfield, too......


----------



## Laxguy

Stuart Sweet said:


> Wait, the iPhone 5 has all this cool stuff?
> 
> Seriously shame on that channel for doing zero research.


Whoa! I really like the holographic stuff.....


----------



## RunnerFL

Stuart Sweet said:


> Wait, the iPhone 5 has all this cool stuff?
> 
> Seriously shame on that channel for doing zero research.


Wow, that's just sad...


----------



## dpeters11

Stuart Sweet said:


> Wait, the iPhone 5 has all this cool stuff?
> 
> Seriously shame on that channel for doing zero research.


While that is an extreme example, generally when the mainstream media does a tech story, they either blow it out of proportion, or just get it wrong. The morning of the launch, they had an "expert" on Today and he was asked about the new connector. He said it would be micro usb. Even before the announcement happened, we knew that it wouldn't be a standard port.


----------



## Herdfan

Chris Blount said:


> Won't work with FedEX


Didn't work for me with UPS. So that is actually good news. Since my aforementioned problem with being able to hang around until my phone shows up, I hope that it is coming via FedEx. They tend to deliver to my house by 10AM vs UPS which runs 3-4PM. There is hope.


----------



## The Merg

Just got an e-mail notificiation from VZW that my iPhone has shipped via FedEx and has left West Chester, PA with an estimated deilvery of 09/21 before 3 pm. Wooho!

- Merg


----------



## inf0z

hmm


----------



## NR4P

There are reports of homeless people being paid to get in line, get $50-$100 and then swap their position when the stores open. I don't whether to be annoyed by this or admire it.


----------



## Laxguy

NR4P said:


> There are reports of homeless people being paid to get in line, get $50-$100 and then swap their position when the stores open. I don't whether to be annoyed by this or admire it.


Yes, a phenom that began in ______ . Dunno when it started in earnest, but I am convinced some people do it for the few minutes of fame when the evening news cameras come about. I can't think of anything I'd stand in line for overnight.


----------



## wingrider01

Laxguy said:


> Yes, a phenom that began in ______ . Dunno when it started in earnest, but I am convinced some people do it for the few minutes of fame when the evening news cameras come about. I can't think of anything I'd stand in line for overnight.


Saw a interview on a local channel where 3 people have been camping the store since monday - they plan on auctioning off the first 3 spots in line to the highest bidder....


----------



## Chris Blount

Don't forget that iOS 6 is getting released today for the iPhone, iPad & iPod touch. Probably around 12:00 PDT. You can upgrade right on your device as long as you are connected via wifi. Go into settings -> General -> Software Update. Here are the new features: http://www.apple.com/ios/whats-new/


----------



## dpeters11

Chris Blount said:


> Don't forget that iOS 6 is getting released today for the iPhone, iPad & iPod touch. Probably around 12:00 PDT. You can upgrade right on your device as long as you are connected via wifi. Go into settings -> General -> Software Update. Here are the new features: http://www.apple.com/ios/whats-new/


I think it's supposed to be closer to 10am, 1 Eastern.

Just remember that the 3GS gets it, but the original iPad doesn't. If someone relies heavily on features specific to Google Maps, you might want to hold off until Google releases a standalone version. They have an iPhone Youtube app available, don't think there's an iPad version yet.


----------



## Steve

Rave reviews on the iPhone 5, so far: http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/09/19/apple-reviews-idINL4E8KJ7ZW20120919

Britain's Telegraph newspaper called the iPhone 5 is "arguably the most beautiful object Apple has ever produced".

Piper Jaffray analyst Gene Munster had this to say:


> "We view the iPhone 5 as the Rolex of smartphones in terms of quality and build," he wrote in a note issued early Friday, "while the majority of other phones are dominated by lesser quality plastic and feel more like Timexes. Why would someone buy a Timex when they can have a Rolex for the same price?"
> 
> [more]


----------



## Steve

Chris Blount said:


> Don't forget that iOS 6 is getting released today for the iPhone, iPad & iPod touch. Probably around 12:00 PDT. You can upgrade right on your device as long as you are connected via wifi. Go into settings -> General -> Software Update. Here are the new features: http://www.apple.com/ios/whats-new/


One of the nice things about buying into the Apple ecosystem. No wondering "when" you're gonna get the next big s/w update for your device.

And I say this as someone who uses both an iOS and Android device daily, along with my Windows PCs.


----------



## Chris Blount

iOS 6 update is up right now. Server running slow but is working.


----------



## Chris Blount

dpeters11 said:


> I think it's supposed to be closer to 10am, 1 Eastern.


 You are right. Got my time zones messed up.


----------



## Chris Blount

Steve said:


> One of the nice things about buying into the Apple ecosystem. No wondering "when" you're gonna get the next big s/w update for your device.
> 
> And I say this as someone who uses both an iOS and Android device daily, along with my Windows PCs.


 Agree. I like how Apple structrures their updates.


----------



## Stuart Sweet

Gotta say I'm loving the OTA updates. With the last one I did 5 iDevices at the same time.


----------



## Chris Blount

Stuart Sweet said:


> Gotta say I'm loving the OTA updates. With the last one I did 5 iDevices at the same time.


 I agree and on top of that, a new update for the iMac came out to integrate with iOS 6 so I'm patched into my iMac at home using my iPad and running the update.

Love the 21st century!


----------



## Laxguy

Thanks, dpeters! I am now updated on both phone and pad. And, thanks Chris, downloading 10.8.2 now. Heading out tomorrow to the Midwest; nomad on Pad seems to be fine, loading up now. 

Can't say it's electronic nirvana, but much closer today than ever before.....


----------



## naijai

Downloaded and installed just haven't browsed yet.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

Chris Blount said:


> iOS 6 update is up right now. Server running slow but is working.


Updating my iPhone 4, but disappointed it is not supported for my original iPad.

I get dropping old devices from support, but knowing that the older iPhone 3GS is supported while the original iPad is not is a hard pill to swallow.

My iPad has not liked iOS5 lately, and I was hoping iOS6 would fix some of the sluggishness and app store crashes. My worry is that we won't even get a 5.1.2 or anything to bug-fix the original iPad now.

While I would like a new iPad some day... I'd like to still be able to use my original iPad for the stuff it is still good for.


----------



## Chris Blount

Did anyone try the panaramic feature yet? It's darn cool!


----------



## jdskycaster

Stewart Vernon said:


> Updating my iPhone 4, but disappointed it is not supported for my original iPad.
> 
> I get dropping old devices from support, but knowing that the older iPhone 3GS is supported while the original iPad is not is a hard pill to swallow.
> 
> My iPad has not liked iOS5 lately, and I was hoping iOS6 would fix some of the sluggishness and app store crashes. My worry is that we won't even get a 5.1.2 or anything to bug-fix the original iPad now.
> 
> While I would like a new iPad some day... I'd like to still be able to use my original iPad for the stuff it is still good for.


Traded in two of the three gen one ipads we have in the house to amazon for just this reason. I figure $250ea for them is not bad considering they will be worth about a hundred bucks max pretty soon. We will be evaluating the slew of new tablets coming on the market this fall. There should be some great alternatives at the $299 and $399 price points.


----------



## Herdfan

Stewart Vernon said:


> Updating my iPhone 4,


I thought about it, but since I plan on it hitting ebay next week, I thought it might be worth a little more if it can be unlocked/jailbroken easier. I will have 6 on Friday (or possibly Monday) so no need to get it today.


----------



## dpeters11

In case anyone else sees this. Updated an ipad 2, couldn't keep a wifi connection. It acted like it wanted me to log into an apple store hotspot. Forgetting the network, rebooting didn't fix it. I had to reset the network settings.


----------



## RunnerFL

Herdfan said:


> I thought about it, but since I plan on it hitting ebay next week, I thought it might be worth a little more if it can be unlocked/jailbroken easier. I will have 6 on Friday (or possibly Monday) so no need to get it today.


There's already a jailbreak for iOS 6.


----------



## NR4P

Updating the ipad (3) now.... Tried too early today. Now if the 5 will just show up soon.

Update: Completed fine. No problems. Held the home wi-fi connection 100%. Did it on battery since it was 100% when I started.


----------



## dpeters11

Looks like my issue was bad timing. iOS checks a particular page on apple.com to verify a connection. Since it was getting a response, but not the expected one of success, it freaked out.


----------



## RasputinAXP

that's lousy design.


----------



## Sixto

4S updated, have customized a few things. Love separate signatures, iMessage by phone number for iPad (doing that now), Maps is cool, better privacy for contacts, shared photos, lots of good stuff ...


----------



## djlong

Both my and my wife's 4S models updated flawlessly. As I haven't heard from my daughter, she either hasn't gotten it, got it flawlessly, or was abducted by space aliens and isn't getting service.


----------



## Chris Blount

There are quite a few small changes I've noticed. Both good and bad.

iTunes match has changed. It works more intelligently and only downloads music you choose to play and then automatically deletes it so you don't fill up your phone.

When using Siri and the iPhone is plugged into a car stereo or other USB device, you now have a choice to use Siri through the sound system or on the phone itself.

Cosmetic changes throughout. Color scheme changes, things like that.

The find friends app looks a bit better and integrates well with the new maps.

Turn-by-turn directions works fairly well but the new map system definitely needs work. If you still want Google maps simply point safari to maps.google.com and place an icon on your home screen.

Good Facebook integration.

The Do Not Disturb feature is pretty cool.

Like the VIP list.


----------



## Chris Blount

dpeters11 said:


> In case anyone else sees this. Updated an ipad 2, couldn't keep a wifi connection. It acted like it wanted me to log into an apple store hotspot. Forgetting the network, rebooting didn't fix it. I had to reset the network settings.


This happened on my iPad after the update. It seemed to have fixed itself after a couple of reboots.


----------



## raott

IMO, an OK update. 

Maps is utter garbage and Google's maps should not have been left out until Maps was in a more advanced state (may not have been Apple's choice).

On the positive, alot of small improvements and better integration with Facebook.


----------



## Stuart Sweet

The browser-based map doesn't have street view, does it?


----------



## Nick

*"new software... suffers 
from holes and glitches"*

From the *New York Times*:


> *Apple's iPhone Update Leaves Out Google's Maps*
> 
> By BRIAN X. CHEN and NICK WINGFIELD
> Published: September 19, 2012
> 
> Millions of iPhone customers may soon find themselves losing touch with an old friend: Google's maps.
> 
> On Wednesday, Apple released a software update for the iPhone that, among other changes, replaces the Google maps that have been on the phone since 2007 with Apple's own maps. So far the feedback from reviewers and early adopters of the new software is that it is attractive but suffers from holes and glitches. ...


Full article *here*


----------



## Chris Blount

Nick said:


> *"new software... suffers
> from holes and glitches"*
> 
> From the *New York Times*: Full article *here*


 Yep, but as the article says, the new Apple maps should get better over the next year. Let's hope it works out that way. Something must have happened behind the scenes where Apple was forced to switch to the new maps. Isn't Apple's contract expiring with Google next year or something? I remember reading about it somewhere.

I was messing with the maps yesterday and I can see the potential but right now the app (for me) is pretty much beta. I wonder is Steve Jobs would have allowed this to happen?


----------



## dogbreath

ipad 2 ios6 update allows me to go into the chat room.


----------



## Chris Blount

dogbreath said:


> ipad 2 ios6 update allows me to go into the chat room.


 That was probably not the update. The yearly subscription to the mobile version of the chat room expired and I renewed it last week.


----------



## Alan Gordon

Chris Blount said:


> Good Facebook integration.


I have complaints about the Facebook integration.

I don't like what it does with Contacts. For one thing, if you integrate Facebook and Contacts, it does not allow you to delete imported Facebook "friends." I do not like this.

There's a few other things related to Facebook integration that I'd prefer was different in Contacts, but the above is VERY disappointing.

~Alan


----------



## Laxguy

Chris-

Wondering what the hiccups/defects in the new Maps is? I have looked at the app on iPhone and iPad in the WiFi'd comfort of my own home, so somewhat limited view so far. But heading out this morning to Illinois.


----------



## Alan Gordon

Apple's Maps app shares something in common with Google Maps.

Namely, both puts my address and some neighbors two miles down the road where there's nothing but trees.... but oddly Google Maps is in one direction, and Apple Maps shows me in the other direction.

I've reported this to Google in the past and nothing was ever done to correct it. I wonder if Apple will care enough to look into it... 


On the plus side, I remember hearing that Maps considerably less useful for those in smaller places due to less close-up views in Maps (at this time anyway), and I was surprised to see that in my particular case, I can zoom into where I live almost as far as Google's. Not quite as close, but not much difference overall. Obviously Street View is gone though... 





On a related topic, on Google Maps, and to a less extent, Apple's Maps app, there are businesses listed. If one is a business, is there a special way that one needs to contact Apple (or Google) to get added, or can any user contact them to get a business added?!

~Alan


----------



## Stuart Sweet

Alan, Laxguy...

Let me give you my own impressions. I was worried that Facebook integration would take over my contacts. So, I didn't add my sign in information. Yes this takes away some functionality but I can still use the facebook app (which, thankfully, is much improved lately.)

Maps... I'm sorry when even Walt Mossberg complains about an Apple feature what can you say. I'm not going to turn into a hater, because I know it will improve. However, let me tell you what the changes were, that were important to me.

*Just plain wrong:* Apple Maps has my street wrong! My street arcs into another street and it labels my part of the street with the wrong name! I already reported it.

*Neighborhood chaos:* The maps are spotlighting neighborhood names that are not in common use (like the Cheviot Hills area of L.A., who's heard of this?) and ignoring common neighborhood names like Century City which are in far more common parlance.

*Old aerials:* Due to a particular event, I can pinpoint the EXACT day the Google plane flew over, and it was June of this year. I can also tell you by looking at landmarks that the Apple plane (or wherever they get their photos) hasn't been here since before August 2011. Not a killer but still.

*Flyovers are gorgeous but...* Google Earth has them too and they're pretty good. Not as good but they are a lot faster to draw. Also a bit of a chip on my shoulder... the flyover stops at the exact entrance to my alma mater. Why is that?

None of these are super deal breakers but for now, I will be keeping Navigon for directions and hoping that Google comes through with an app that gives me back street view.


----------



## Stuart Sweet

Alan Gordon said:


> On a related topic, on Google Maps, and to a less extent, Apple's Maps app, there are businesses listed. If one is a business, is there a special way that one needs to contact Apple (or Google) to get added, or can any user contact them to get a business added?!
> 
> ~Alan


Drop a pin and report a problem, or possibly make sure the business is on Yelp.


----------



## Laxguy

Thanks. Specifics are always good! 

I noticed on Google maps that the date and time of the photo can depend on the detail level.


----------



## RunnerFL

Well my iPhone has officially made it to Louisville, KY. It left Anchorage 2 days ago and just got scanned in KY this morning. That means they probably cleared Customs in KY and not AK. Either that or got to KY and just sat there for 2 days.


----------



## Chris Blount

Alan Gordon said:


> I have complaints about the Facebook integration.
> 
> I don't like what it does with Contacts. For one thing, if you integrate Facebook and Contacts, it does not allow you to delete imported Facebook "friends." I do not like this.
> 
> There's a few other things related to Facebook integration that I'd prefer was different in Contacts, but the above is VERY disappointing.
> 
> ~Alan


 I simply turned that feature off. In the settings you can remove the Facebook contacts from your contacts list.


----------



## Chris Blount

RunnerFL said:


> Well my iPhone has officially made it to Louisville, KY. It left Anchorage 2 days ago and just got scanned in KY this morning. That means they probably cleared Customs in KY and not AK. Either that or got to KY and just sat there for 2 days.


 Yeah, I finally got the e-mail this morning from Apple saying my iPhone shipped. It's actually been in KY for the last 2 days.


----------



## Rich

Laxguy said:


> Thanks. Specifics are always good!
> 
> I noticed on Google maps that the date and time of the photo can depend on the detail level.


The Google map of my street is four years old. The street view still shows my '88 Bonneville which I got rid of in '08 after 20 years of ownership. My house still shows the old siding and the new siding has been in place for 3 years. Bing maps show a better, newer picture.

Rich


----------



## RunnerFL

Chris Blount said:


> There are quite a few small changes I've noticed. Both good and bad.
> 
> iTunes match has changed. It works more intelligently and only downloads music you choose to play and then automatically deletes it so you don't fill up your phone.
> 
> When using Siri and the iPhone is plugged into a car stereo or other USB device, you now have a choice to use Siri through the sound system or on the phone itself.
> 
> Cosmetic changes throughout. Color scheme changes, things like that.
> 
> The find friends app looks a bit better and integrates well with the new maps.
> 
> Turn-by-turn directions works fairly well but the new map system definitely needs work. If you still want Google maps simply point safari to maps.google.com and place an icon on your home screen.
> 
> Good Facebook integration.
> 
> The Do Not Disturb feature is pretty cool.
> 
> Like the VIP list.


Along with those cool changes here are some I noticed:

Downloading updates now apparently no longer requires you enter your Apple ID password every time. At least it didn't for me yesterday during any of the times I applied updates yesterday. (There were a TON of apps that got updates yesterday, as expected)

Downloading updates now has its own screen and doesn't take you back to your home screens for you to scrounge around the various screens to see what is updating when. On the new screen they are all listed and you see their progress. You can "open" them from this new screen once the updates are done as well.

The top bar (with signal strength, battery life, time, etc) now uses muted colors that correspond to the app you are in. Looks a lot smoother.

Love the way they've changed the options to share photos from your camera roll.

Passbook works great, it's showing my Ticketmaster tickets for an upcoming show.

The Clock app on the iPad has been greatly improved.

You can now do the pulldown refresh thing in mail, love that.

New ringtones like a motorcycle, pinball, a theramon, etc.

The new maps also gets my address right! The old Google Maps always put my address clear at the other end of the street.


----------



## RunnerFL

Stuart Sweet said:


> Let me give you my own impressions. I was worried that Facebook integration would take over my contacts. So, I didn't add my sign in information. Yes this takes away some functionality but I can still use the facebook app (which, thankfully, is much improved lately.)


You can go into the "Privacy" settings and allow, or block, access on an app by app basis once the app makes an attempt. You can keep Facebook out of just your contacts but give it access to other areas, etc.


----------



## Karen

I have a Pioneer navigation system in my car, and use the AVIC Feeds app to set the places I want to go.

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Portable/Apps/AVIC+Feeds+App

I was so worried that it wouldn't work right with the change in maps, but it works flawlessly without an update. Whew! I didn't want to wait until I got my iPhone 5 to find out, so upgraded my iPhone 4 last night.


----------



## Laxguy

Passbook looks very useful, but no module/button in it is active except App Store, and when pushed it goes to a grey screen saying it cannot connect to the iTunes store.


----------



## RunnerFL

Laxguy said:



> Passbook looks very useful, but no module/button in it is active except App Store, and when pushed it goes to a grey screen saying it cannot connect to the iTunes store.


The reason it takes you to the App Store is because you have to have apps installed that use Passbook. For instance I have Ticketmaster and Live Nation's apps. They use passbook so my tickets to Tesla show up in my passbook.


----------



## Laxguy

RunnerFL said:


> The reason it takes you to the App Store is because you have to have apps installed that use Passbook. For instance I have Ticketmaster and Live Nation's apps. They use passbook so my tickets to Tesla show up in my passbook.


Ah, thanks, man. I have a current need for a United passbook thing, and if I have time, I will rummage around for an app that syncs up.


----------



## Karen

Laxguy said:


> Passbook looks very useful, but no module/button in it is active except App Store, and when pushed it goes to a grey screen saying it cannot connect to the iTunes store.


If you haven't got Passbook to work yet, try the following. I saw it in a comment to an article and it worked for a friend of mine.

Go into settings- General- Date and Time. Change "Set Automatically" off. Then change the date to November. Go back into Passbook and you should be able to access the store. Once you have you can go back into settings and change it back to automatically set date and time.


----------



## Shades228

Apple chose to get away from Google Maps because they don't want to support Google in any way due to Android. Google gains revenue from people using Google Maps and Apple hates that they can profit off of their system.


----------



## lugnutathome

Same thing here but on my iPhone. Holding off on the iPads or wife's phone. <y telecom person said the OS had to authorize and that took some time (in my case thru Verizon). Is you iPad a wi-fi only device? I'm assuming mine being so will not have the issue.

BUT, the iPhone seems to have lost sensitivity to the wi-fi networks. I lose signal in parts of my home on it where the iPad (still on iOS5 works fine)

Don "holding on updating the rest of the fleet till first patch I think" Bolton



dpeters11 said:


> In case anyone else sees this. Updated an ipad 2, couldn't keep a wifi connection. It acted like it wanted me to log into an apple store hotspot. Forgetting the network, rebooting didn't fix it. I had to reset the network settings.


----------



## dpeters11

RunnerFL said:


> The reason it takes you to the App Store is because you have to have apps installed that use Passbook. For instance I have Ticketmaster and Live Nation's apps. They use passbook so my tickets to Tesla show up in my passbook.


Are the ticketmaster ones limited? I see tickets I have for a show in December, but see no option for Passbook. Venue not supported maybe?


----------



## dpeters11

There also seem to be about 197 security updates in 6.0...
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT5503


----------



## Chris Blount

RunnerFL said:


> Along with those cool changes here are some I noticed:
> 
> Downloading updates now apparently no longer requires you enter your Apple ID password every time. At least it didn't for me yesterday during any of the times I applied updates yesterday. (There were a TON of apps that got updates yesterday, as expected)
> 
> Downloading updates now has its own screen and doesn't take you back to your home screens for you to scrounge around the various screens to see what is updating when. On the new screen they are all listed and you see their progress. You can "open" them from this new screen once the updates are done as well.
> 
> The top bar (with signal strength, battery life, time, etc) now uses muted colors that correspond to the app you are in. Looks a lot smoother.
> 
> Love the way they've changed the options to share photos from your camera roll.
> 
> Passbook works great, it's showing my Ticketmaster tickets for an upcoming show.
> 
> The Clock app on the iPad has been greatly improved.
> 
> You can now do the pulldown refresh thing in mail, love that.
> 
> New ringtones like a motorcycle, pinball, a theramon, etc.
> 
> The new maps also gets my address right! The old Google Maps always put my address clear at the other end of the street.


Good ones! I agree about the app update download screen. Nice to have everything in one place.


----------



## Stuart Sweet

RunnerFL said:


> You can go into the "Privacy" settings and allow, or block, access on an app by app basis once the app makes an attempt. You can keep Facebook out of just your contacts but give it access to other areas, etc.


Thanks for that tip. I may try it if I'm feeling bold, but I've been building my contacts list for close to 20 years in Outlook and I'm kinda squirrely about anything changing it.


----------



## RunnerFL

dpeters11 said:


> Are the ticketmaster ones limited? I see tickets I have for a show in December, but see no option for Passbook. Venue not supported maybe?


Quite possibly based on venue. I didn't have to do anything to get mine to show up.


----------



## Alan Gordon

Stuart Sweet said:


> Maps... I'm sorry when even Walt Mossberg complains about an Apple feature what can you say. I'm not going to turn into a hater, because I know it will improve.


Street View was something I used every now and then, but aside from that, I'm not really having the negative reaction some people are. Perhaps if I had an iPhone or was in a larger area, maybe I'd feel differently.



Stuart Sweet said:


> Drop a pin and report a problem, or possibly make sure the business is on Yelp.


I've contacted Google multiple times over the years in an effort to get them to correct/add stuff with no luck. Perhaps I'll have better luck with Apple...



Chris Blount said:


> I simply turned that feature off. In the settings you can remove the Facebook contacts from your contacts list.


Thanks! I had forgotten you could do that until you mentioned it... so I went ahead and turned it off for Contacts.

I like the idea of it, but I don't care for the implementation.



Stuart Sweet said:


> Thanks for that tip. I may try it if I'm feeling bold, but I've been building my contacts list for close to 20 years in Outlook and I'm kinda squirrely about anything changing it.


I only have 35 contacts so it wouldn't have been disastrous for me, but I had things MOSTLY like I like it, so I didn't like some of the changes and additions and stuff it made for me.

~Alan


----------



## Herdfan

Chris Blount said:


> but the new map system definitely needs work.
> 
> The Do Not Disturb feature is pretty cool.


I have been reading about how bad the mapping system is. But one question, does it work when you have no signal. That was my biggest gripe about the Maps app. No signal, no map.

My daughter is updating right now. She got woken up last night because a friend texted her at 10pm. She turns the ringer off, but the vibration still wakes her. So she is looking forward to this feature.


----------



## braven

Chris Blount said:


> I simply turned that feature off. In the settings you can remove the Facebook contacts from your contacts list.


That's exactly what I did. I turned off the facebook contacts and calendar stuff.


----------



## dmspen

Shades228 said:


> Apple chose to get away from Google Maps because they don't want to support Google in any way due to Android. Google gains revenue from people using Google Maps and Apple hates that they can profit off of their system.


Same reason they dumped YouTube. Note that there's no more YouTube app. Google has already posted one in the App store


----------



## Chris Blount

Herdfan said:


> I have been reading about how bad the mapping system is. But one question, does it work when you have no signal. That was my biggest gripe about the Maps app. No signal, no map.


 Pretty much the same. No signal, no maps.

It's great to have GPS and maps on a phone. I use it in a pinch but nothing takes the place of my Garmin stand alone GPS. The maps are stored on the device and it works very well. I use the Garmin mainly for long trips when I don't want to take the chance of the phone losing the data signal. Yes, there are GPS apps for the iPhone but I guess I'm old school that way.


----------



## heathramos

I haven't read this whole thread but a couple other things I liked about the update:

being able to decline a call and reply with a text message or have it automatically remind you to call that person back one hour later or when you leave the area.

you can embed a picture/video in an email from the email app itself

you can set the alarm to use a song as the alarm


----------



## raott

Maps team is currently under "lockdown" to fix the maps issues according to Apple.

http://www.macrumors.com/2012/09/20...tches-maps-team-under-lockdown-to-fix-issues/


----------



## Stewart Vernon

Ignoring for the moment things like YouTube and Google probably having other things in pay being 3rd party things...

I frankly wish more of the "built-in" apps were not built-in.

Why?

Think iBooks... Apple was smart to make that a separate app, because look at all the times they have been able to update it... IF it was bundled in the iOS package, then you have to get an iOS update just to fix one of those apps.

Some things are pretty stable and don't need updating... so I'm find with some small sampling of apps being built-in...

But frankly wouldn't it be nice if the Apple Maps was separate too? With all the gripes, the only way for them to fix/update will be another iOS update... but if it were a standalone app, they could update it much easier.


----------



## dpeters11

Has anyone tried sending a calendar invite to someone outside your domain and their acceptance not getting sent? A user is reporting to me that the recipient is only getting the username in the invite, and therefore appending their own domain to the address.

I can't reproduce it.


----------



## dpeters11

iFixit has purchased one, and is currently in the process of disassembly. So far, it actually seems easier to fix, at least the screen. It no longer takes 38 steps, like the 4s, closer to the 3GS.

http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iPhone-5-Teardown/10525/1


----------



## RunnerFL

dpeters11 said:


> iFixit has purchased one, and is currently in the process of disassembly. So far, it actually seems easier to fix, at least the screen. It no longer takes 38 steps, like the 4s, closer to the 3GS.
> 
> http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iPhone-5-Teardown/10525/1


Fixing the front glass will be easier, just more expensive. It's more than just the glass now, the digitizer is molded to it.


----------



## dmspen

I d/l'ed IOS6 last night. The first thing I noticed was my screen was dimmer. I have it set to Auto but the Auto seems dimmer.

Or I'm getting dim...

Anyone else? Si? No?


----------



## CopyCat

dmspen said:


> I d/l'ed IOS6 last night. The first thing I noticed was my screen was dimmer. I have it set to Auto but the Auto seems dimmer.
> 
> Or I'm getting dim...
> 
> Anyone else? Si? No?


Saw the same thing on my 4S, just went to settings and turned up the backlight and left it on auto. I'll bet it was set low to extend battery life between charges.


----------



## dennisj00

Black phone is restoring! New earpods are pretty good, I could never use the old style.

White phone is still on FedEx.


----------



## Chris Blount

Got my iPhone 5 at 9:30 this morning. Restore from iTunes went quick (didn't want to use iCloud especially today).

Like the screen. Time to do some testing.


----------



## RunnerFL

I got mine at 10:24, 6 mins shy of the deadline. Setup was a piece of cake! If you don't want to load your own music, videos, ringtones or wallpaper (meaning you buy it all from iTunes) you never have to hook it up to a computer anymore. And even if you do want to use your own content you really only have to hook it up once, unless you have to do a new iOS install. You don't even have to hook it up to a computer to activate it on your AT&T account like you did in the past. I guess this kinda backs up their stance that you really only need a cable to charge anymore.

It's super fast and the difference in weight, against my iPhone 4, is definitely noticeable. It may just be me but it's warmer than phones in the past.

I chose to set mine up as a new phone instead of restore from a backup. I wanted to start fresh.


----------



## B Newt

It cracks me up that people will stand in line for several days at the apple store to get a iphone 5. Here in Las Vegas one of the apple stores is in a large shopping center. While people are waiting in line for hours and days a Version phone store in the same shopping center has iphone5's and there is no line. They said they have plenty in stock also. A couple of guys have been in line at apple store since Wednesday.


----------



## wingrider01

B Newt said:


> It cracks me up that people will stand in line for several days at the apple store to get a iphone 5. Here in Las Vegas one of the apple stores is in a large shopping center. While people are waiting in line for hours and days a Version phone store in the same shopping center has iphone5's and there is no line. They said they have plenty in stock also. A couple of guys have been in line at apple store since Wednesday.


we had a few places here where people are holding signs that they are willing to negotiate the sale of their spot for either personal profit or chairty, this was at 3:30 AM when I was heading to the airport, no idea how long they had been there. Also saw earlier in the week signs in front of some locations that the local law enforcement would issue summons for loitering to people hat tried to camp out early in the week


----------



## Karen

I was outside with my camera waiting for the Endeavour to fly over Sacramento when the UPS truck pulled up. I was soooooooo afraid that the shuttle would fly by while I was signing for it. I rushed him on his way in plenty of time for me to get my shots. Whew!

I restored mine from iCloud and it worked very well. I was a little worried when I saw a blank row of apps, but them remembered that the iPhone 5 has 5 rows instead of 4. <g>

If you're interested in my shots of the Endeavour, you'll find them here:
http://whatchadoin.smugmug.com/About-Town/Endeavour-Flyover/25496505_6kWtMj#!i=2101017848&k=KSCJ5RN


----------



## Steve

Karen said:


> If you're interested in my shots of the Endeavour, you'll find them here:
> http://whatchadoin.smugmug.com/About-Town/Endeavour-Flyover/25496505_6kWtMj#!i=2101017848&k=KSCJ5RN


Enjoyed looking at those, Karen. Thanks for posting!


----------



## Chris Blount

Karen said:


> I was outside with my camera waiting for the Endeavour to fly over Sacramento when the UPS truck pulled up. I was soooooooo afraid that the shuttle would fly by while I was signing for it. I rushed him on his way in plenty of time for me to get my shots. Whew!
> 
> I restored mine from iCloud and it worked very well. I was a little worried when I saw a blank row of apps, but them remembered that the iPhone 5 has 5 rows instead of 4. <g>
> 
> If you're interested in my shots of the Endeavour, you'll find them here:
> http://whatchadoin.smugmug.com/About-Town/Endeavour-Flyover/25496505_6kWtMj#!i=2101017848&k=KSCJ5RN


 Great shots! I was raised in Sacramento. Every so often I get back there for a visit with family. I'm jealous you guys got to see the shuttle.


----------



## dpeters11

"B Newt" said:


> It cracks me up that people will stand in line for several days at the apple store to get a iphone 5. Here in Las Vegas one of the apple stores is in a large shopping center. While people are waiting in line for hours and days a Version phone store in the same shopping center has iphone5's and there is no line. They said they have plenty in stock also. A couple of guys have been in line at apple store since Wednesday.


Me too. Preordered that Friday when I got up, had the box by 9:30 am this morning. No muss, no fuss.


----------



## Chris Blount

By the way. When I was on the phone today with AT&T, I asked nicely if they would refund the activation fee. They did. Hey, $40 is $40.


----------



## Sixto

All set.

tap backup to iCloud.

tap restore from iCloud.

4S to 5 upgrade done.

this phone is cool.


----------



## klang

My online order was placed a bit later that first day. My delivery date is now the 27th. UPS tracking says it's waiting to be picked up in China.


----------



## Laxguy

"Karen" said:


> If you haven't got Passbook to work yet, try the following. I saw it in a comment to an article and it worked for a friend of mine.
> 
> Go into settings- General- Date and Time. Change "Set Automatically" off. Then change the date to November. Go back into Passbook and you should be able to access the store. Once you have you can go back into settings and change it back to automatically set date and time.


Thank you.
For wahtever reason it just started working at SFO.

(From iDevice )


----------



## braven

Stopped by the AT$T store at 10am. Bought two 5's (both 16gb, one white, one black). They had plenty in stock. No waiting in line and no pre ordering needed. We upgraded from 4's and I'm pretty impressed with the speed increase and I love the new design. 

I sold 2 16gb 4's on Craigslist today for $200 each. It's crazy how these things hold their value.


----------



## Hoosier205

We will be upgrading our 4's to 5's next month. I can't imagine an iPhone 5 owner going with any network other than Verizon.


----------



## boukengreen

i plan on upgrading my 3gs in nov when i'm elgiable to upgrade


----------



## wingrider01

Hoosier205 said:


> We will be upgrading our 4's to 5's next month. I can't imagine an iPhone 5 owner going with any network other than Verizon.


have all for work, att, sprint, verizon - absolutely detest the inability to have voice and data access concurrently issues that Verizon and Sprint have, makes it difficult to conduct a impromptu meeting when you are not in the office and there are documents and emails being sent back and forth for review. Besides where I live and my home office is, two cans and a string are better reception then verizon - just like a dry state - no bars


----------



## RunnerFL

Hoosier205 said:


> I can't imagine an iPhone 5 owner going with any network other than Verizon.


And I can't imagine why anyone would want to go with Verizon. You can't take advantage of the full capabilities of your phone. "I'll find a movie for us to go to. Let me call you back because I can't do that while I'm talking to you on Verizon".


----------



## dpeters11

"RunnerFL" said:


> And I can't imagine why anyone would want to go with Verizon. You can't take advantage of the full capabilities of your phone. "I'll find a movie for us to go to. Let me call you back because I can't do that while I'm talking to you on Verizon".


I really don't get that. Other phones on Verizon can do that. It does seem to be an Apple decision regarding CDMA. But, for many people it doesn't much matter. I mostly use data on wifi, rarely use the phone. All the other family is on Verizon so don't use minutes, good coverage and I signed us up for a good discount.


----------



## Hoosier205

"dpeters11" said:


> I really don't get that. Other phones on Verizon can do that. It does seem to be an Apple decision regarding CDMA. But, for many people it doesn't much matter. I mostly use data on wifi, rarely use the phone. All the other family is on Verizon so don't use minutes, good coverage and I signed us up for a good discount.


It requires a third internal antenna and Apple omitted it. Oh well, it's a superior network nationally for both LTE and 3G. Plus, every time I seem to need voice and data simultaneously I just so happen to be on wifi and if works on wifi.


----------



## dpeters11

"Hoosier205" said:


> It requires a third internal antenna and Apple omitted it. Oh well, it's a superior network nationally for both LTE and 3G. Plus, every time I seem to need voice and data simultaneously I just so happen to be on wifi and if works on wifi.


Gotta save something for iPhone 6 maybe.


----------



## Shades228

Hoosier205 said:


> It requires a third internal antenna and Apple omitted it. Oh well, it's a superior network nationally for both LTE and 3G. Plus, every time I seem to need voice and data simultaneously I just so happen to be on wifi and if works on wifi.





dpeters11 said:


> Gotta save something for iPhone 6 maybe.


I think it's because less people talk on phones then text now so talking and surfing is down among the target audience. I was always surprised that the CDMA carriers never came out with a commercial of kids laughing at someone talking on the phone and surfering when they would send links via social networks and things faster.


----------



## Chris Blount

Hoosier205 said:


> I can't imagine an iPhone 5 owner going with any network other than Verizon.


 That depends on where you live. Down here, AT&T is superior to Verizon in every way....and of course as others have said, not having voice and data at the same time is a deal breaker.


----------



## Hoosier205

"Chris Blount" said:


> That depends on where you live. Down here, AT&T is superior to Verizon in every way....and of course as others have said, not having voice and data at the same time is a deal breaker.


Hopefully AT&T can improve those LTE speeds.


----------



## Shades228

I held one of these today and I really felt like I was holding an old Nokia candy bar phone. I'm glad for those who like them but it's just too much of a rectangle. It's unfortunate because I think the next upgrade I will be swapping over to them unless the Win 8 phones are out and up to speed.

However getting everything on one iTunes account could save me some serious money.


----------



## Lord Vader

wingrider01 said:


> have all for work, att, sprint, verizon - absolutely detest the inability to have voice and data access concurrently issues that Verizon and Sprint have...


This is not an issue with Sprint's HTC EVO LTE. I can easily do voice and data simultaneously, and this was in a market not yet LTE capable.


----------



## RunnerFL

Some great examples showing how far Apple Maps have to go to improve:

http://theamazingios6maps.tumblr.com/


----------



## wingrider01

dpeters11 said:


> I really don't get that. Other phones on Verizon can do that. It does seem to be an Apple decision regarding CDMA. But, for many people it doesn't much matter. I mostly use data on wifi, rarely use the phone. All the other family is on Verizon so don't use minutes, good coverage and I signed us up for a good discount.


Pretty sure that is not correct, will have to check when I get back to the office with a couple of people that have a blackberry and a android. Found this also

http://arstechnica.com/apple/2012/0...e-and-data-on-the-verizon-or-sprint-iphone-5/

"A long-standing feature of the CDMA networks used by Verizon and Sprint is they don't permit simultaneous use of a data connection and a voice connection. Due to their use of the data-only EVDO standard (instead of the data plus voice EVDV alternative), any inbound or outbound call forces the phone to drop the data connection and revert to a CDMA connection."

this seems to indicate that no phone on verizon or sprint can do it


----------



## Chris Blount

Hoosier205 said:


> Hopefully AT&T can improve those LTE speeds.


 What are you kidding me? These are faster speeds than my home connection.


----------



## dennisj00

Wow, that's about 4 times the 10/4 speed I get sitting in my livingroom - almost matching the 12/4 cable connection.


----------



## Hoosier205

"Chris Blount" said:


> What are you kidding me? These are faster speeds than my home connection.


I thought they were still using their fake brand of LTE.


----------



## Karen

We got the real thing here in Sacramento last week. My download speed is faster thru AT&T's LTE, but my upload speed is faster on wireless. I have the lowest priced plan from Surewest's fiber-optic network at home...

















I've never had the best AT&T connection around my house. I can hardly wait to see what the speed is when I have more bars showing.


----------



## Matt9876

Big question, How did they make the new Maps app work on the Ipad3 Wi-Fi only device for turn by turn directions. Part of new IOS6.0 upgrade.

Just got back home from a long trip and for the most part the Map app worked beautifully.

It seems to update about every fifteen seconds, with a blue ball marker in the center of a blue shaded circular area, the shaded area seems to be the margin of accuracy. 

I have the Nav Free app that still has no clue where I am and reports "Poor GPS" most of the time.

I was always told the Wi-Fi only models have no GPS chip but some how my Ipad3 wi-fi only 64 gig can accurately pin point my location and map it correctly.


----------



## TBlazer07

Matt9876 said:


> Big question, How did they make the new Maps app work on the Ipad3 Wi-Fi only device for turn by directions. Part of new IOS6.0 upgrade.
> 
> Just got back home from a long trip and for the most part the Map app worked beautifully.
> 
> It seems to update about every fifteen seconds, with a blue ball marker in the center of a blue shaded circular area, the shaded area seems to be the margin of accuracy.
> 
> I have the Nav Free app that still has no clue where I am and reports "Poor GPS" most of the time.
> 
> I was always told the Wi-Fi only models have no GPS chip but some how my Ipad3 wi-fi only 64 gig can accurately pin point my location and map it correctly.


It picks up information from wi-fi access points even if you are not connected to the wi-fi access point. There is no GPS chip in a Wi-Fi only iPad.

Edit: Here is a thread I just found which explains it pretty well: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1434771


----------



## Matt9876

TBlazer07 said:


> It picks up information from wi-fi access points even if you are not connected to the wi-fi access point. There is no GPS chip in a Wi-Fi only iPad.
> 
> Edit: Here is a thread I just found which explains it pretty well: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1434771


My trip was in some very rural areas, I would call what I have seen today on the Ipad3 Map app as amazing if not down right magical, especially if it is based on receiving known wi-fi hot spot signal information.

Thanks for the information.

Edit: Made a typo on the original post, My gen 3 Ipad is 32 gig not 64.


----------



## Lord Vader

wingrider01 said:


> Pretty sure that is not correct, will have to check when I get back to the office with a couple of people that have a blackberry and a android. Found this also
> 
> http://arstechnica.com/apple/2012/0...e-and-data-on-the-verizon-or-sprint-iphone-5/
> 
> "A long-standing feature of the CDMA networks used by Verizon and Sprint is they don't permit simultaneous use of a data connection and a voice connection. Due to their use of the data-only EVDO standard (instead of the data plus voice EVDV alternative), any inbound or outbound call forces the phone to drop the data connection and revert to a CDMA connection."
> 
> this seems to indicate that no phone on verizon or sprint can do it


That is incorrect! My Sprint HTC EVO LTE does, in fact, do simultaneous voice and data. Period.


----------



## Hoosier205

It simply requires a third antenna for CDMA networks. Those other Verizon phones have it, the iPhone doesn't. Apple chose to leave it out, not Verizon.


----------



## Lord Vader

To whom are you directing your reply there?


----------



## dpeters11

"Lord Vader" said:


> That is incorrect! My Sprint HTC EVO LTE does, in fact, do simultaneous voice and data. Period.


Yeah, even the article he posted said that other phones on Verizon and Sprint can do it, though of course it depends on the area. If you're not connected to an LTE network on Verizon, then a phone that is capable of it, can't do them simultaneously.


----------



## Alan Gordon

I have a wifi iPAD 2.

Prior to iOS 6, location based services worked on it when connected to a wifi signal. Now it does not... 

Am I doing something wrong, or is this a change that came for everyone who upgraded to iOS 6?!

~Alan


----------



## Stuart Sweet

I am not sure about your device, but location services work just fine in my wi-fI only iPad.


----------



## raott

Anyone else having a "No Sim Card" issue? Wife's phone worked fine yesterday, this morning it gave the No Sim message. Took a hard reboot to get it to work again, only to get the same message a few hours later. Had to reboot again.

Did some looking around and it appears others are having the same issue.


----------



## Alan Gordon

Stuart Sweet said:


> I am not sure about your device, but location services work just fine in my wi-fI only iPad.


Darn...

I made changes to my wireless setup last week as well... maybe it was something I did there... 

I'll use my iPAD somewhere else on Tuesday, and see if it works there to hopefully troubleshoot whether it's my iPAD or my home network.

~Alan


----------



## The Merg

"Alan Gordon" said:


> Darn...
> 
> I made changes to my wireless setup last week as well... maybe it was something I did there...
> 
> I'll use my iPAD somewhere else on Tuesday, and see if it works there to hopefully troubleshoot whether it's my iPAD or my home network.
> 
> ~Alan


Turn off Location Services, turn the iPad off then on, turn on Location Services and see how it goes.

- Merg


----------



## djlong

Hoosier205 said:


> We will be upgrading our 4's to 5's next month. I can't imagine an iPhone 5 owner going with any network other than Verizon.


I can. My family plan is over $50/mo cheaper with Sprint *and* I have unlimited data to each of the 3 iPhones on my plan.

Yes, I switched from Verizon to Sprint for those exact reasons.


----------



## Herdfan

Hoosier205 said:


> I can't imagine an iPhone 5 owner going with any network other than Verizon.


Then don't go to college at WVU in Morgantown WV/ We were driving through there this weekend. AT&T had 4-5 bars of "4G", Verizon iPad was Searching.....

In a big college town. Really?

Did some some real world experience with the Maps app, and I can officially say it sucks. Horrible. Couldn't find businesses in a major city. Horrible, just horrible. Can't wait for a Google Maps app. The web interface is better, but not what we had.


----------



## jdskycaster

djlong said:


> I can. My family plan is over $50/mo cheaper with Sprint *and* I have unlimited data to each of the 3 iPhones on my plan.
> 
> Yes, I switched from Verizon to Sprint for those exact reasons.


+1. Three 4s phones on Sprint because of the ability to share an unlimited data plan. If the monthly rates on data phones go any higher everyone in the family will get a cricket phone and learn to live with it.


----------



## The Merg

Anyone get the iPhone 5 to connect to a Hyundai via the USB cable?

- Merg


----------



## dpeters11

Herdfan said:


> Then don't go to college at WVU in Morgantown WV/ We were driving through there this weekend. AT&T had 4-5 bars of "4G", Verizon iPad was Searching.....
> 
> In a big college town. Really?
> 
> Did some some real world experience with the Maps app, and I can officially say it sucks. Horrible. Couldn't find businesses in a major city. Horrible, just horrible. Can't wait for a Google Maps app. The web interface is better, but not what we had.


West Virginia has typically been a pretty weak state for Verizon, though that will be changing. I believe LTE towers were installed on the roof of Hotel Morgan. I think the issues previously was spectrum in the area. I'm not sure if Morgantown is part of it, but last month, Verizon got FCC approval for a major spectrum purchase from other companies.


----------



## Herdfan

dpeters11 said:


> West Virginia has typically been a pretty weak state for Verizon, though that will be changing.


Yeah, to gain access to the state they bought Alltel's assets here, but were definately late to the game. But they get to claim LTE coverage in Charleston because they have ONE tower downtown lit up. Really? One tower constitutes a market?


----------



## Nick

Herdfan said:


> Yeah, to gain access to the state they bought Alltel's assets here, but were definately late to the game. But they get to claim LTE coverage in Charleston because they have ONE tower downtown lit up. Really? One tower constitutes are market?


our - pronounced _"hour"_

--------------------------

Edit: This post hes been rendered moot (not mute) for all relavent intents and purposes.


----------



## Alan Gordon

For those not aware, Apple TV got an update yesterday.

Several new features were added... 

~Alan


----------



## hancox

Hoosier205 said:


> I thought they were still using their fake brand of LTE.


Right idea, wrong acronym.

They were using their HSPA+ network, and designating it "4G" I, and many like me, call this "faux G"

Their LTE (ie real 4G) is competitive.


----------



## Alan Gordon

The Merg said:


> Turn off Location Services, turn the iPad off then on, turn on Location Services and see how it goes.


Thanks for the advice, but it didn't fix the problem.

I brought my iPAD to work today, and Location Services is working fine here, so it's apparently not an iOS 6 issue, but most likely related to settings on a new router at home.

I'll do some investigating later this week and see if I can get it working at home again.

~Alan


----------



## bobukcat

dpeters11 said:


> Yeah, even the article he posted said that other phones on Verizon and Sprint can do it, though of course it depends on the area. If you're not connected to an LTE network on Verizon, then a phone that is capable of it, can't do them simultaneously.


This is actually not completely correct (slightly OT I know but I wanted to clarify). There are a select few phones (Thunderbolt, Rezound and GS3 are 3 that I know of) that CAN do simultaneous V&D on Verizon's CDMA/EVDO network. I don't know of an Android LTE device that won't do SV&D in an LTE coverage zone.


----------



## RunnerFL

No cheap cables any time soon... At least not good ones that will do what they are supposed to do.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/09/25/apple-lightning-cable-inspection-finds-an-extra-smart-connector/


----------



## Herdfan

Herdfan said:


> Yeah, to gain access to the state they bought Alltel's assets here, but were definately late to the game. But they get to claim LTE coverage in Charleston because they have ONE tower downtown lit up. Really? One tower constitutes are market?





Nick said:


> our - pronounced _"hour"_


Oops. It was supposed to read "a" market. Fixed.


----------



## Sixto

RunnerFL said:


> No cheap cables any time soon... At least not good ones that will do what they are supposed to do.
> 
> http://www.engadget.com/2012/09/25/apple-lightning-cable-inspection-finds-an-extra-smart-connector/


Yep, I bought 3 on Saturday. Now have 4, and probably in service for next 5+ years.


----------



## RunnerFL

Sixto said:


> Yep, I bought 3 on Saturday. Now have 4, and probably in service for next 5+ years.


Yeah, I'm gonna pick up at least 1 more cable for my "go bag" and an adapter so I can just use the old cables I have systematically placed here at home and at my office.


----------



## dpeters11

Hopefully cheap cables come soon, I'm always being asked for cables, for an "emergency" and never know if I'll get it back.

At least ones that can charge.


----------



## RunnerFL

dpeters11 said:


> Hopefully cheap cables come soon, I'm always being asked for cables, for an "emergency" and never know if I'll get it back.
> 
> At least ones that can charge.


Did you read the article I posted? No cheapies...

"No matter the wizardry inside, Bradstock doesn't see any cut-rate Lightning alternatives being useful in the near future: as it's unlikely that anyone outside of Cupertino knows how the authentication works at this stage, clone cables may amount to little more than heaps of metal and plastic."


----------



## dpeters11

RunnerFL said:


> Did you read the article I posted? No cheapies...
> 
> "No matter the wizardry inside, Bradstock doesn't see any cut-rate Lightning alternatives being useful in the near future: as it's unlikely that anyone outside of Cupertino knows how the authentication works at this stage, clone cables may amount to little more than heaps of metal and plastic."


Right, but it sounded like it was mostly the data. For my purposes, I don't care about that. I just want a cheap cable that is safe to use for charging purposes.


----------



## RunnerFL

dpeters11 said:


> Right, but it sounded like it was mostly the data. For my purposes, I don't care about that. I just want a cheap cable that is safe to use for charging purposes.


Sounds to me like the connector, with the authentication chip, determines what contacts are for charging based on how you've inserted the cable. Not sure how you can do a cheap cable without the chip with that being the case.

For example say pins 1 and 2 are for charging and 7 and 8 are for data. You then unplug and plug back in reversed now what were 7 and 8 are 1 and 2 and what were 1 and 2 are now 7 and 8. If that chip isn't there to determine you've flipped the connector you could be sending power where you should be sending data. Not a good thing.


----------



## dettxw

So does the iphone not do simultaneous voice and data?? I'm unsure after skimming the posts.
Or does it depend on the carrier and/or LTE availability?

Anyway, I've been rocking my HTC Rezound on Verizon LTE for a year here in OKC and couldn't do without simultaneous voice and data, use it all the time. 
(Peruse the show times while arranging a date, view the radar while talking to the kiddo at work to warn him of weather alerts, check incoming emails for that important message while talking, etc.)
There is a drawback at this time though, Verizon uses the old 1x system for voice and the quality is lacking.
Maybe it'll get better when Verizon switches to VOIP over LTE sometime in the future.


----------



## RunnerFL

dettxw said:


> So does the iphone not do simultaneous voice and data?? I'm unsure after skimming the posts.
> Or does it depend on the carrier and/or LTE availability?


On AT&T you can do simultaneous voice and data. On Verizon and Sprint you cannot do simultaneous voice and data.


----------



## Lord Vader

RunnerFL said:


> On AT&T you can do simultaneous voice and data. On Verizon and Sprint you cannot do simultaneous voice and data.


That is not correct. I have an HTC EVO LTE with Sprint and am perfectly able to do simultaneous voice and data and have been since I got the phone in May.


----------



## dpeters11

Lord Vader said:


> That is not correct. I have an HTC EVO LTE with Sprint and am perfectly able to do simultaneous voice and data and have been since I got the phone in May.


In terms of iPhone, they are correct. No simultaneous voice and data if wifi isn't used. All other Verizon LTE phones do support it.


----------



## Lord Vader

I do NOT need WiFi access to do simultaneous voice and data with my Sprint phone. I have been quite able to do both simultaneously since I got the thing in May.


----------



## dpeters11

Lord Vader said:


> I do NOT need WiFi access to do simultaneous voice and data with my Sprint phone. I have been quite able to do both simultaneously since I got the thing in May.


Correct. You have Android, they have the hardware to support simultaneous voice and data. The iPhone 5 does not, it's missing one antenna.


----------



## Lord Vader




----------



## RunnerFL

Lord Vader said:


> That is not correct. I have an HTC EVO LTE with Sprint and am perfectly able to do simultaneous voice and data and have been since I got the phone in May.


I was responding to someone asking about an iPhone. My statement is 100% correct.


----------



## Lord Vader

Then perhaps you should be more grammatically careful.


----------



## RunnerFL

Lord Vader said:


> Then perhaps you should be more grammatically careful.


My grammar was just fine as well.


----------



## dpeters11

Two things I learned a long time ago, never disagree with a dark lord of the Sith, or a teacher


----------



## Laxguy

Lord Vader said:


> Then perhaps you should be more grammatically careful.


??

His grammar was fine; 'twas you who misread his post! So, apology for the dust up when you were wrong, perhaps? Yes?


----------



## Lord Vader

RunnerFL said:


> My grammar was just fine as well.


It was not. Thank you for illustrating it twice. 



dpeters11 said:


> Two things I learned a long time ago, never disagree with a dark lord of the Sith, or a teacher


...or an umpire. !Devil_lol



Laxguy said:


> ??
> 
> His grammar was fine; 'twas you who misread his post! So, apology for the dust up when you were wrong, perhaps? Yes?


Negative


----------



## RunnerFL

Lord Vader said:


> It was not. Thank you for illustrating it twice.


Put your glasses on. There was absolutely nothing wrong with my post. You either misread my post or didn't bother reading what I quoted.

End of discussion...


----------



## raott

Two hardware issues so far with my wife's phone. 

First was a "No Sim Card" message. Many others have complained about it on the Apple message boards. ATT replaced the Sim card and it is working fine now.

Now the phone is intermittently not charging, despite all connectors being seated. I guess it will be a trip to the Apple store now and hopefully they have replacement phones in stock.


----------



## Lord Vader

RunnerFL said:


> Put your glasses on. There was absolutely nothing wrong with my post. You either misread my post or didn't bother reading what I quoted.
> 
> End of discussion...


Actually, there was. Study hard.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

_This is an iPhone 5/iOS 6 thread... so until some other manufacturer makes an iPhone OR a phone that runs iOS 6, it should be assumed any statements about what one can or cannot do with AT&T, Sprint, Verizon relates to iPhone 5 and iOS 6...

So, please no more attacking each other instead of the topic.

Thank you!_


----------



## Alan Gordon

Alan Gordon said:


> Thanks for the advice, but it didn't fix the problem.
> 
> I brought my iPAD to work today, and Location Services is working fine here, so it's apparently not an iOS 6 issue, but most likely related to settings on a new router at home.
> 
> I'll do some investigating later this week and see if I can get it working at home again.


I went into my router's setup menu and couldn't find anything that might be the problem and gave up for the day. I was playing with my iPAD later that night and Location Services is now working... 

~Alan


----------



## Shades228

Alan Gordon said:


> I went into my router's setup menu and couldn't find anything that might be the problem and gave up for the day. I was playing with my iPAD later that night and Location Services is now working...
> 
> ~Alan


Maybe Apple maps had your house in space as location services are not supposed to work outside of the atmosphere.


----------



## RunnerFL

Shades228 said:


> Maybe Apple maps had your house in space as location services are not supposed to work outside of the atmosphere.


:lol: Best explanation yet.


----------



## Alan Gordon

Shades228 said:


> Maybe Apple maps had your house in space as location services are not supposed to work outside of the atmosphere.


That would be new...

I still get a kick out of how entering my address in Google Maps has my home two miles North of where I am, but Apple Maps has my home 4-5 miles South of where I am.

Space wouldn't surprise me... 

~Alan


----------



## dennisj00

So the average is pretty close!!


----------



## The Merg

Anyone else getting hit with the No SIM Card issue? Had it pop up yesterday once and a reboot of the phone fixed it. Today, it popped up with an Invalid SIM message. A reboot gave me a SIM Failure message. A second reboot had the phone working again. I think I might need to make a trip to a VZW store.

- Merg


----------



## Shades228

The Merg said:


> Anyone else getting hit with the No SIM Card issue? Had it pop up yesterday once and a reboot of the phone fixed it. Today, it popped up with an Invalid SIM message. A reboot gave me a SIM Failure message. A second reboot had the phone working again. I think I might need to make a trip to a VZW store.
> 
> - Merg


This issue is all over the net. I think most people just get it replaced.


----------



## dpeters11

Verizon iPhone 5 users, be sure to go to Settings/General/About. You should get a carrier update prompt, follow those instructions (select OK, then completely turn off your iPhone, then boot it back up. Apparently there is an issue where it can use Verizon data instead of wifi.

http://www.macrumors.com/2012/09/30/apple-releases-carrier-update-for-verizon-iphone-5/


----------



## The Merg

Good to know they publicized this... :nono:

- Merg


----------



## dpeters11

"The Merg" said:


> Good to know they publicized this... :nono:
> 
> - Merg


It may just require shutting the phone down, but I know people can go quite a while without a full shutdown.


----------



## RunnerFL

Has anyone been able to get their hands on a cheapy cable yet to see if they actually work or not?


----------



## dmspen

Got my iPhone 5 yesterday. My wife and daughter drooled over it. 

Everything great so far. LTE speeds are fantastic. Last measurment at home was 25M down 19M up! Yippee!

Even in the middle of my work building I'm getting 15M down and 3 up. Can't complain!

Now about that connector...to repeat above...anyone tried the chepie cables yet?


----------



## klang

I've only bought Apple stuff so far. One thing to watch out for when you buy a case, neither the Lightning Adapter nor the cabled Lightning Adapter would fit through the opening in the first case I bought.


----------



## RunnerFL

I gave up waiting on someone to report on cheapy cables and went ahead and bought Apple cables. Apple's site said they would ship in "1 - 2 weeks" but I had them in 2 days from China via FedEx.


----------

