# The Holiday Charlie Chat Summary - December 10th, 2007



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

*The Holiday Charlie Chat Summary - December 10th, 2007*​Charlie Chat Hosted by
Charlie Ergen - CEO and Chairman
Jim DeFranco - Executive Vice President

Holiday Music Channels
Channels 947, 949 and 982 (982 is free to all receivers)

*Trivia - Win a 42" HDTV and a SlingBox Solo*
Which film is the box office leader this year?
(Random drawing of all correct entries.)

David Gregg ... Dish Network Tech Correspondent
In Herald Square showing some technology ...
Flat Panel TV ... Sharp Aquos HDTV
SlingBox Solo ... remote viewing and control of your receiver
DVR ... the 722 is the latest

*HDTV Content*
New Channels since last Chat
NHL HD, NBA TV HD, TBS HD
Regional Sports: Altitude, Comcast Mid Atlantic, Comcast West, FSN Ohio

Promotion with Sharp ... go to http://dishnetwork.com/sharp/
Save up to $800 - promotion ends January 31st, 2008.

"75" channels of HD ... 15 exclusive to Dish Network - Voom
22 Regional Sports Networks in HD
35 Local Markets in HD
"Over 100 markets by the end of 2008."
"More national channels than just about anybody else."

A HD Receiver is needed for HD programming!
Upgrade price to a HD DVR starts at $99 after mail in rebate of $100.

New Customers -- Adding DishHD for the first time:
First six months free - save $120 overall.

Non-HD DVR. Buy a 510 for $29 or lease for NO upfront cost after rebate.
A $50 installation charge may apply - if needed.

DishDVR Advantage ... includes basic programming, local channels and DVR Fee
Plus a savings on premium channels.
Sign up for Credit Card AutoPay with Paperless Billing and save up tp $50 per year

*SlingBox Solo*
Blake Kirkorian, Co-Founder, Chairman and CEO or Sling Media.
Basic demonstration of what the Solo does.

Perhaps some integration of technology in the future products.
http://slingbox.com/

*HBO - Inside the NHL*
"No place like Dish Network for football ..."
NFL Network available in the lowest tiered package (AT100).

*NBA TV HD*
Available on channel 9508 in AT100 or above with DishHD.
(SD version available in AEP or Sports Pack.)
NBA League Pass $179 or 3*$59.67
ESPN Full Court $109 or 3*$54.00

*NHL*
NHL Center Ice $169 or 3*$56.34
NHL Network HD on channel 403 in AT100 or above with DishHD.
(No SD version available.)

*All About Movies*
Mike Richards from Reelz Channel (299)
(Short promo of the Reelz Channel.)
Watch Dailies weeknights at 6pm ET on Reelz Channel.
Available in AT100 and above.
Informing about movies and telling you where to find them.

*Sundance Film Festival*
Independent films ... 31 days of Sundance.
Eric Sahl interviews Geoff Gilmore, director of the Sundance Festival.
3600 films submitted ... 120 films shown at the festival.
Sundance Channel 332 ... 20 plus films purchased for the channel.

*QUESTIONS !!!* (and only 18 minutes to go!)
Callers get three PPV coupons.

Carla (email): Why can't we order just the channels we want? (A la carte)
Charlie: Not impossible ... we do more a la carte than anyone else. We can't do it more because of contracts with the channel providers.

William (phone): ViP-211 w/720p resolution. When will it do 1080p?
Jim: It will do 1080i ...
Jan Johnson: 1080p isn't supported in broadcast TV today ... it could be coming sometime in the future.
Charlie: You won't find other receiver equipment that does more than 1080i.

Chad (email): What happens to locals when analogs are shut down?
Charlie: We are working with local broadcasters to switch analog to digital.

*Programming Updates*
Eric Sahl - Check out holiday classics!
PPV Family Channel 532 from December 19th through the 25th.
Check out Dish on Demand from Decemer 12th through Christmas for more holiday classics.
A few other previews ... including ...
"Paranormal State" on A&E
"The Universe" and "Life After People" on History
"Life after People" premiers Monday, January 21st on 120

Dish Channel 100 ...
ESPN Interactive Zone - scores and one touch channel change.
Disney Channel Interactive - free through the end of the year.
The Weather Channel Interactive,
HSN Shop by Remote ... order what you see on HSN with your remote.
Press SELECT to shop while watching on channels 84 or 221.

*WINNER*
Brenda Hall - Garden City, MO (Answer - SpiderMan 3)

Next Charlie Chat ... March 10th, 2008 - 9pm ET Channel 101


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## DJ Lon (Nov 3, 2005)

What a snoozer!

Thanks for the recap James!


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Saving you an hour of watching TV ... 

(At least you know you didn't miss anything.)


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## DJ Lon (Nov 3, 2005)

James Long said:


> (At least you know you didn't miss anything.)


Yes I did...I could have been watching something else I recorded on The DVR! :lol:


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## bartendress (Oct 8, 2007)

This was my first Charlie Chat as a DISH sub...

Based on my interpretation of what I've read on the boards, I expected something informative... maybe an exciting announcement... and all I got was an info-mercial with local, cable-access production values.

The only thing missing was Suzanne Somers.


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## Dicx (Sep 17, 2007)

bartendress said:


> This was my first Charlie Chat as a DISH sub...
> 
> Based on my interpretation of what I've read on the boards, I expected something informative... maybe an exciting announcement... and all I got was an info-mercial with local, cable-access production values.
> 
> The only thing missing was Suzanne Somers.


I agree completely. No HD announcements (future), even the locals in 2008 it looked like the yellow dots were cut short on showing up. And the write in / phone questions seemed like plants worse than at a Republican debate


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## bartendress (Oct 8, 2007)

Dicx said:


> And the write in / phone questions seemed like plants worse than at a Republican debate


But you could tell that HD content was the elephant in the room... every time it came up they cringed just a bit.

And were they really proud of... 6 new HD channels since the last Charlie Chat? I suspect it's more than that, but they packaged that one highlight so very poorly that it sure looked that way to me.


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## razorbackfan (Aug 18, 2002)

They build up HD, their HD set giveaway, HD upgrades, then ignore HD programming? They just don't seem to have a clue do they?


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## DBS Commando (Apr 7, 2006)

Charlie Chat is just turning into another Infomercial. They should move it to Channel 104. There is nothing at all that addresses the "status" of Dish Network.


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## tomcrown1 (Jan 16, 2006)

Charlie chat will lead folks to leave Dish on his next chat Charlie had better give us some idea on Dish plan for HD or I am gone. I hate the lies like we we always do HD better!!!


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

tomcrown1 said:


> Charlie chat will lead folks to leave Dish on his next chat Charlie had better give us some idea on Dish plan for HD or I am gone. I hate the lies like we we always do HD better!!!


Next Charlie Chat ... March 10th, 2008 - 9pm ET Channel 101

Plenty of time.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

tomcrown1 said:


> Charlie chat will lead folks to leave Dish on his next chat Charlie had better give us some idea on Dish plan for HD or I am gone. I hate the lies like we we always do HD better!!!


yeah they looked real uneasy when the HD talk came up...an took forever to answer some simple questions.....draaaaagin their feet...

Charlie: "Nobody does HD better"...sad.....very sad


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## SMosher (Jan 16, 2006)

James, your recap is wonderful.

Charlie, your chat was useless.


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## Henry (Nov 15, 2007)

DBS Commando said:


> Charlie Chat is just turning into another Infomercial. They should move it to Channel 104. There is nothing at all that addresses the "status" of Dish Network.


What a let-down. It trully was a blatant informercial. Maybe we brought it onto ourselves with our wishful thinking, but even the most novice of viewers would have to concur that we witnessed an hour-long Dish commercial. I sure hope the next Tech Chat fairs better.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

it's clear he has no answer for D*'s mass release of HD channels...but to act like there is no concern at all...is even worse. I like how they filtered through the emails...you mean to tell me there were not a majority of "whens the new HD coming" emails?


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## Larry Kenney (Aug 19, 2005)

Thanks for the comprehensive review, Jim.

I agree that it was just a infomercial in disguise tonight. There was NO new information about services or channels, not even the two new HD channels that have been uplinked but aren't yet available. I thought we'd at least hear something about those. Nope... it was all about old stuff... except for one thing.

I've got to look into the DVRAdvantage. I'm already have Paperless Billing, so I've got to check out that $50 savings. 

The "Charley Chats" used to be interesting, but no longer. They've become too commercial and don't provide any new information any more. Too bad...

Oh well...

Larry
SF


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## Henry (Nov 15, 2007)

Agree, TW and Larry ... I mean, I'll keep the candle lit but, man, it's hard to feed a flame in a vacuum.


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## John W (Dec 20, 2005)

Dicx said:


> I agree completely. No HD announcements (future), even the locals in 2008 it looked like the yellow dots were cut short on showing up. And the write in / phone questions seemed like plants worse than at a Republican debate


Wrong party. Hillary is the one with the plants.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Enough of the political ... this is a DBS Forum!


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

No announcements - that is a surprise. I like most others expected something of substance regarding HD national channels to come come out tonight.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Best part of show: Eric Sahl doing the Interactive TV. No Scott Higgins! 

Favorite moment (and more awkward for Charlie and Jim than discussing HD) ... Eric Sahl's jokes. At the end of the Sundance segment (49 mins into the show) he joked about a new movie idea "How to Succeed in Business Without Trying" meets "Brokeback Mountain". Then he describes the 20 years that Charlie and Jim have been together. 

Resumes for Eric's job will be accepted in the morning. 

The only thing close to "news" was the claim of "Approx 100 HD markets, over 80% of US TV Households by end of 2008" (beginning to roll out in the spring). No list, just vague dots on a map.

And the last "surprise" ... next Charlie Chat is March (no January Chat after CES?).

I enter chats expecting nothing ... this month I was well served.


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## Henry (Nov 15, 2007)

James Long said:


> _[...]_ I enter chats expecting nothing ... this month I was well served.


Ain't that the truth.!

I don't mind delays, and I don't mind line-up changes, and I don't really care about keeping up with D* ... as much as I hate the lack of _direct_ information from the company that depends on my subscription for their very survival.

When you don't think it's important enough to keep me informed, then _maybe you don't think I'm important enough to inform. _ And that's a sad and fatal thought.


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## fredp (Jun 2, 2007)

What the hell was that I just saw. I guess 2007 will end as if leaving the bathroom with the toilet flushing... Charlie looked bored as he always does. Only thing I gleemed from this wasted hr is that more locals will be coming in 2008 in HD including mine in the Plattsburgh/Burlington area. Then again 2008 is a leap year. 366 days of probably nothing exciting. I hope I am proven wrong.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

HDG said:


> Ain't that the truth.!
> 
> I don't mind delays, and I don't mind line-up changes, and I don't really care about keeping up with D* ... as much as I hate the lack of _direct_ information from the company that depends on my subscription for their very survival.
> 
> When you don't think it's important enough to keep me informed, then _maybe you don't think I'm important enough to inform. _ And that's a sad and fatal thought.


march...nice...so that will be what....6 months since D* started adding, and not a peep from chuck about it? Maybe he's gonna do the "silent" additions of channels? This could be a looooong 3 more months.


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

Thanx for the recap. REALLY glad I missed it.


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## thefunks67 (Feb 4, 2007)

whatchel1 said:


> Thanx for the recap. REALLY glad I missed it.


Ditto. Thanks Charlie.

At least the wife will be happy for another 3 months as nothing will have changed.

-Funk


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

There was a yellow dot (future locals) north of San Francisco on the coast seemingly around Eureka. There's maybe 200,000 residents in Humbold County and another 50,000 in Del Norte County. Beautiful area. They do have TV stations, but most are essentially repeater stations from the Redding-Chico areas some offering no local news. So who are Earth would devote scarce resources.... Oh, I get it - from Wikipedia: "In California, the Eureka television market and the Yuma-El Centro market are the only TV markets currently not available on either Dish Network or DirecTV."

Ok, so 14 million subscribers may not get national cable channels in HD, but let's devote manhours of planning to use bandwidth to compete over minimal market areas where we can get a thousand subscribers....

What a frustrating Charlie Chat. They even got confused over the difference between 1080p and 1080i. Got that corporation split through the FCC and SEC in a hurry though.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

The FCC has approved the transfer of ownership (which is a trivial request since the ownership is identical regardless of name) but the filings with the SEC are not final.

What was filed last week was a "preliminary information statement." Once the dates are filled in it won't take effect until 20 days have passed. “EchoStar Communications Corporation” will become “DISH Network Corporation”, then "EchoStar Holding Company" will become “EchoStar Communications Corporation.”

One step at a time ...


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

> What a frustrating Charlie Chat. They even got confused over the difference between 1080p and 1080i. Got that corporation split through the FCC and SEC in a hurry though.


Yeah I think that loooong answer was just another stall tactic. It could have been answered in 3 min max, and then to another question...an HD question maybe? Amazing how no HD questions made it on...


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

James Long said:


> The only thing close to "news" was the claim of "Approx 100 HD markets, over 80% of US TV Households by end of 2008" (beginning to roll out in the spring). No list, just vague dots on a map.


I started to add this to the EKB HD Locals page when I found it's almost the same as what's already there, from spring's Team Summit announcement of an all-MPEG4 system from 2 new satellites. Maybe it really is different from the commercial MPEG4 MDU service that was recently started.


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## unr1 (Jul 16, 2005)

thanks for the recap James


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## DStroyer (May 9, 2007)

That's why I DVR the thing. I flew through it in about 15 minutes.

75 HD channels.......... Wow. I have 45 (including the red ones I'm not subscribed to).

I don't normally hop on the channel count thing, but the fact that the CEO had no news about new national HD channels and no questions about it were allowed through really bothers me, like it does everybody else here.


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## rsirfus (Oct 11, 2003)

well looks like this made my decision to switch to Direct Tv. was waiting for a charlie chat to see what would be said about new hd channels. was kind of waiting to see if speed tv would be added and see nothing or hear nothing. Guess I'll be making the switch soon. Have been a customer for over 12 years


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## 34Ford (Jul 3, 2004)

I finally decide to watch a CC after years and this is the best he can do?:nono2: 

Glad I recorded it.


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## Islandguy43 (Oct 2, 2007)

James Long said:


> And the last "surprise" ... next Charlie Chat is March (no January Chat after CES?).


Well we all have to wait until March, so we can all discuss why they had to raise subscription rates 10% to help cover the additional cost of the HD programming.

Pay more and maybe we will give your locals in HD:nono2:


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## tjnamtiw (Dec 4, 2007)

DBS Commando said:


> Charlie Chat is just turning into another Infomercial. They should move it to Channel 104. There is nothing at all that addresses the "status" of Dish Network.


The status is that Dish Network is totally out of touch with reality and their customers! How can they stay in touch and get feedback when every line that customers can use to access Dish goes to either India or the Philippines? Even BellSouth (ATT) realized their mistake in outsourcing Customer Service and are bringing them back to the US.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

rsirfus said:


> well looks like this made my decision to switch to Direct Tv. was waiting for a charlie chat to see what would be said about new hd channels. was kind of waiting to see if speed tv would be added and see nothing or hear nothing. Guess I'll be making the switch soon. Have been a customer for over 12 years


Cant say that i blame you. With the CEO, knowing that customers are waiting for more (cant tell me his office doesn't see the complaints) HD...and he doesn't even address it in his chat? By the look on his face and the dancing and stalling, i got the "yeah we know D* is kicking our tushes and theres nothing we can do about it right now" vibe. I'm still under contract, and i think they will be adding Scifi soon...and that is one of my main channels i have been waiting for...so i'm staying put for now. Not to mention i just got a 500gb external...but if scifi isn't added soon and nothing promising looks like it is happening, i may bite the bullet too.


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## booger (Nov 1, 2005)

Things are not looking too good. Maybe a buyout wouldn't be so bad after all.


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## Rob Glasser (Feb 22, 2005)

Thanks James, once again you saved me an hour of my life. Did they mention when the next Technical Chat was going to be? Those are the ones that tend to have more information anyways.


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## RTE (Aug 26, 2007)

Aren't there people here with direct Dish contacts that can tell us about the USA and SCFI channel tests and turn-on dates or an inside guess? 

That info would have made a better Charlie Chat show!

RTE


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Buyout.. I think would be a bad thing.. If you think things are moving too slow know, what do you think a buyout would do?

Thanks James... Wish more info on HD was mentioned but thats the way things go some times... 

As for people making decisions based on information on the chats.. Remember... Charlie chats are but a glimpse into what is going on and I am sure they are not a full indication of what is happening behind the scenes. 

I look at them like release notes... They contain some of the information of what went into a particular release but by no means is all inclusive.

Oh.. and Thanks James for taking your time to post them...


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Rob Glasser said:


> Thanks James, once again you saved me an hour of my life. Did they mention when the next Technical Chat was going to be? Those are the ones that tend to have more information anyways.


The Tech Chats definitely are more informative to this crowd....


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

RTE said:


> Aren't there people here with direct Dish contacts that can tell us about the USA and SCFI channel tests and turn-on dates or an inside guess?
> 
> That info would have made a better Charlie Chat show!
> 
> RTE


How would people here telling you what they know make the charlie chat show better? I could see it making people feel better about the SciFi and USA coming online, but I don't see it having any inpact on the quailty of content of last nights CC show.

And to answer your question. Yes there are people that wonder around here that have direct contact with Dish. I am sure they would say something if they felt they could.


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## RTE (Aug 26, 2007)

Ron Barry said:


> How would people here telling you what they know make the charlie chat show better?


I didn't mean to suggest it would. the show should have mentioned it. Since it didn't, I was asking if anyone who had insider info might comment on it. Since you don't seem to be one of them, Ron, your answering didn't help at all.


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

Ron Barry said:


> Wish more info on HD was mentioned but thats the way things go some times...
> 
> As for people making decisions based on information on the chats.. Remember... Charlie chats are but a glimpse into what is going on and I am sure they are not a full indication of what is happening behind the scenes.


But compounded on the similar lack of HD information given to DISH retailers at the DISH Retailer Chat on November 27th, you do have to start wondering somewhat if they are in touch with the customer base right now - meaning, there are Retailers looking for info to supply to potential new customers as well as existing customers who are concerned - staying loyal can't be easy without something to look ahead to.

It does look to me that they are avoiding the discussion totally.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

One way to look at it..... Dish definitely is more closed mouthed about future plans than some companies. I usually equate them to the IBM of the Sat Industry. D* on the other hand tend to be more like Microsoft in terms of disseminating information. Two different styles with their own pluses and minuses.


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

DISH may be or may not be more closed mouthed (I think it depends on the topic, and the timing really), but let's not confuse DISH being close-mouthed to Charlie being close-mouthed.

I have viewed or read most of his chats, and what I see is that he very often talks about his view of what's coming - gosh, where should I start with the things he has said in 10+ years. 

Why nothing NOW? 

All I am saying is that there IS LOTS of concern among his HD enthusiast base (the ones that visit the fourms for sure), there are lots of concerns with many of the retailers right now (business is down, many installers being asked to to installs for DirecTV), and there are the statements he made and in their recent quarterly report that they expect business to be down again in the near term. 

They will survive (that is for certain), they may be bought (?), but there in fact are many, many questions out there right now - that can't be ignored by answers like

1) We had the lead for the past 2 years
2) We have the better DVR

Neither of those answer the question that is now prevelant

1) When are they going to be able to add the new channels (the movie channels with almost 24/7 movies, MGM, SMITH, full-time sports, etc.).

There were TONS of people looking for the answer to THAT SPECIFIC question last night - I know it, you know it, and frankly CHARLIE had to know it as well.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Well to avoid turning this into a D* vs. E* thread (We already have one of those in the general area).  Lets just say our opinions differ and leave it at that.


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## HD is Life (Nov 27, 2007)

I don't see anything in the previous post that would make that a DISH vs DIRECTV argument. 

Why can't there be a discussion about DISH that has more than one side? Do you have to be a DISH user to discuss what DISH is doing and how they are going about it? That makes no sense to me.

I think that post raises fair questions that many DISH people and potential new users would be concerned with.


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## tomcrown1 (Jan 16, 2006)

One thing is scarey Charlie said that it take 6 sd spot to do one HD channel. Was Charlie hinting that at the moment Dish does not have enough room for more HD?? He also stated that doing HD is expensive---is this a hint that Dish does not have the money needed to bring us all the HD Direct TV have. 

To be fair after he made that statement about the high price of HD he did state that Dish does not mind spending the money.


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

Ron Barry said:


> Well to avoid turning this into a D* vs. E* thread (We already have one of those in the general area).  Lets just say our opinions differ and leave it at that.


Ok - Ron - but I was NOT IN ANY WAY making a D* vs. E* argument. I was making a statement in regards to the lack of info given to customers about HD in lasts nights chat, and the questions I see being posed right now in regards to that.

Thanks.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

HD is Life said:


> I don't see anything in the previous post that would make that a DISH vs DIRECTV argument.
> 
> Why can't there be a discussion about DISH that has more than one side? Do you have to be a DISH user to discuss what DISH is doing and how they are going about it? That makes no sense to me.
> 
> I think that post raises fair questions that many DISH people and potential new users would be concerned with.


Didn't say there can't.. Infact there have been numerious threads discussing what ScoBuck brought up and that is why I mentioned it.. I personally didn't want this turning into another one and I did not want to go down that road again.


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## HobbyTalk (Jul 14, 2007)

Thanks for the recap.

The most disappointing for me was that it doesn’t look like there will be local HD channels coming in 2008. While I suppose not all of the “yellow dots” were placed during the animation I can only go by the information that was given.

A quick calculation shows that the cost of putting up an OTA antenna to pick up the locals would cost more then switching to D* (which has the locals in HD that I want). I have no problem with E*’s national HD offerings but don’t wish to wait more then a year for E* to offer HD locals.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

HD locals are definitely something that a most customers would want. More so than any national HD channels I would expect.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

Ron Barry said:


> Well to avoid turning this into a D* vs. E* thread (We already have one of those in the general area).  Lets just say our opinions differ and leave it at that.


I think it's impossible to avoid an E* vs D* type scenerio here when you talk about the lack of info Chuck gave us last night...it's not really E* vs D*...it more of chuck vs E* subs. No info...again...I don't think its a business tactic anymore like it has been...before it was don't release info, and poof heres the channels. Now it seems like it's release no info, cause we don't have anything we can say. When the first thing the CEO and Vice pres say when they start talking is about how much it cost, and what needs to be sacrificed, you already know they are up a creek. Like Scobuck said, we all know, and he has to know, that the new HD is the biggest question of all right now...and he didn't even address it...and then lied..."nobody does HD better"...my buddy and I just started laughing.....I'm sure right along with a bunch of others that were watching.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Rob Glasser said:


> Thanks James, once again you saved me an hour of my life. Did they mention when the next Technical Chat was going to be? Those are the ones that tend to have more information anyways.


The February Tech Chat was not mentioned ... at least not before the credits.



ScoBuck said:


> It does look to me that they are avoiding the discussion totally.


Here is your choice - 
1) Publicly (although with limited distribution) come out with a forecast that your critics will use as soundbytes to destroy the reputation of your company, or
2) Remain silent and let the critics attack only with speculation.

Answer: Combine "if you don't have anything good to say, don't say anything" with "better to keep your mouth shut and be called a fool than open it and prove you are a fool".



ScoBuck said:


> I have viewed or read most of his chats, and what I see is that he very often talks about his view of what's coming - gosh, where should I start with the things he has said in 10+ years.
> 
> Why nothing NOW?


Perhaps he's been burned too many times before? Other than the usual stammering and longer than needed answers I felt that this was one of the more professional chats that Charlie has had. There were no major slips or promises of things that made the "peanut gallery" groan knowing that he'd be held account for his words. It was probably the most scripted one in a while (and I've got the last five on my DVR to look back on).

Mr Ergan is being more careful. Not a bad thing.



> When are they going to be able to add the new channels (the movie channels with almost 24/7 movies, MGM, SMITH, full-time sports, etc.).
> 
> There were TONS of people looking for the answer to THAT SPECIFIC question last night - I know it, you know it, and frankly CHARLIE had to know it as well.


It looks like they ran out of time for that question. Perhaps next time? 

As stated early in the thread ... I watched expecting nothing and got what I expected. Perhaps those that raised expectations before the chat should be held to blame more than Mr Ergen and Dish Network. E* didn't promise the answer to "that specific question".



texaswolf said:


> I think it's impossible to avoid an E* vs D* type scenerio here when you talk about the lack of info Chuck gave us last night...


We can certainly try. This is not a D* vs E* thread.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

> "better to keep your mouth shut and be called a fool than open it and prove you are a fool".


or do nothing and be a fool?


> There were no major slips or promises of things that made the "peanut gallery" groan knowing that he'd be held account for his words.


its that peanut gallery that gives him his millions in bonus each year...a little bit of info would be nice. You have to remember..him showing up every once in awhile is the closet thing we get to an announcement of new channels.


> It looks like they ran out of time for that question. Perhaps next time?


no way of sugar coating it dude...they were uncomfortable even talking of HD...they were ignoring the big white elephant in the room.


> We can certainly try. This is not a D* vs E* thread.


Correct...it's a thread about what the CEO of E* is not doing...and that is giving E* subs the channels that D* has...so unfortunately, the streams will cross here and there.

Thanks for putting this up for the folks that did get to see it..forgot to say that earlier


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

ScoBuck said:


> Ok - Ron - but I was NOT IN ANY WAY making a D* vs. E* argument. I was making a statement in regards to the lack of info given to customers about HD in lasts nights chat, and the questions I see being posed right now in regards to that.
> 
> Thanks.


Glad to hear that .. Perhaps I was reading more into the posts or combining a few posts together and personal I echo disappointment with lack of HD information/plans/announcements in the chat. The reason for my response was as I started to go down my thought process on responding I found myself wondering a familar road and one I thought better to not go down.

As to why the lack of info... Well if memory serves one usually does not get a lot of info out of a CC. They are usually very basic and seldom are sources of big news. Usually the news hits the wire well before it is mentioned in CC from what I remember so most of the time I walk away from the chats disappointed. Ever once in a while there is a nice golden egg dropped but most of the time we already know what gets said because we hang out here. That was the reason for my original comment about CC being like release notes and also the comment about being closed mouth and I do thing Charlie over time has become less open in his communication because more than once it has come back to bit him in the rear.

As for him knowing the biggest question.. Definitely the biggest question in the eyes of the users here is what is E* long term HD plans. Definitely a fair question and at the moment one E* does not seem to be wanting to answer.

In the eyes of the subscription base.. Well that is a tougher question to answer and my guess would be that a large percentage of the users out there really don't care in terms of HD channel counts.. Heck some don't even know what HD really is or what is requires. All they know at this point is they want HD and my guess is most will likely transition with the service they have because it is easy and most people don't do the research the users here do. I am also sure Charlie knows this too.

I would also speculate that Dish Network has a plan.. Might not be quick enough for some here but I am sure they do because if they don't they will not survive. Charlie I am sure also knows this.

So.. Yeah.. Sucks that more info was not provided, but from what I can see SciFi and USA HD seem to be around the corner. Those could have been easily mentioned and was not.. Why??? Well my guess would be just like IBMs answer is... We don't announce anything that is not reality today (Something like that).


----------



## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

James Long said:


> As stated early in the thread ... I watched expecting nothing and got what I expected. Perhaps those that raised expectations before the chat should be held to blame more than Mr Ergen and Dish Network. E* didn't promise the answer to "that specific question".
> 
> We can certainly try. This is not a D* vs E* thread.


No - definitely NOT a competitor vs competitor discussion - it is a discussion on last nights Charlie Chat - and fair game for different points of view.

While you are correct in saying that there was no promise to answer ANY SPECIFIC question, what I did say is that it is THE QUESTION that the HD enthusiasts were looking to hearing answered - RIGHT or WRONG of them.

I know it, YOU know it, and Charlie had to know it. Not addressing it has caused continued stirring in the DISH fourms on the sites that I visit. My only point is that I think he could have addressed it simply with a acknowledgement that the satellite delays have caused a few months of programming delays. That is my OPINION on how he could have done it better.

People are more tolerant of delays with a company they like when they feel they are getting reasonable explanations IMHO.


----------



## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

Ron Barry said:


> Glad to hear that .. Perhaps I was reading more into the posts or combining a few posts together and personal I echo disappointment with lack of HD information/plans/announcements in the chat. The reason for my response was as I started to go down my thought process on responding I found myself wondering a familar road and one I thought better to not go down.
> 
> As to why the lack of info... Well if memory serves one usually does not get a lot of info out of a CC. They are usually very basic and seldom are sources of big news. Usually the news hits the wire well before it is mentioned in CC from what I remember so most of the time I walk away from the chats disappointed. Ever once in a while there is a nice golden egg dropped but most of the time we already know what gets said because we hang out here. That was the reason for my original comment about CC being like release notes and also the comment about being closed mouth and I do thing Charlie over time has become less open in his communication because more than once it has come back to bit him in the rear.
> 
> ...


yeah but a majority of CC was about HD...just not the big question...so even if a lot of subs dont have or know about HD....he is still dedicating a lot of time to it....which makes it worse that he is hiding from the big question


----------



## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

ScoBuck said:


> No - definitely NOT a competitor vs competitor discussion - it is a discussion on last nights Charlie Chat - and fair game for different points of view.
> 
> While you are correct in saying that there was no promise to answer ANY SPECIFIC question, what I did say is that it is THE QUESTION that the HD enthusiasts were looking to hearing answered - RIGHT or WRONG of them.
> 
> ...


very true...did you also notice we didn't even hear "More Hd by the end of the year"...pulled back on that one.....and didn't even give us the CSR quote "we are always working to bring you more"


----------



## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

ScoBuck said:


> I know it, YOU know it, and Charlie had to know it. Not addressing it has caused continued stirring in the DISH fourms on the sites that I visit. My only point is that I think he could have addressed it simply with a acknowledgement that the satellite delays have caused a few months of programming delays. That is my OPINION on how he could have done it better.
> 
> People are more tolerant of delays with a company they like when they feel they are getting reasonable explanations IMHO.


I would agree with this, but as I said in an above post. Charlie Chats are more for the average Joe and roll out details of HD is not really for the average Joe I would think. For us... Heck yeah.. But for the rest of the people rolling into the HD world, just getting locals in HD or HBO and Starz is like WOW to them. (IMHO of course)


----------



## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

Ron Barry said:


> I would agree with this, but as I said in an above post. Charlie Chats are more for the average joe roll out details of HD is really for the average joe I would think. For us... Heck yeah.. But for the rest of the people rolling into the HD world, just getting locals in HD or HBO and Stars is like WOW to them. (IMHO ofcourse)


imagine their "wow" if also added..."we are also working on bringing you these", or "you'll see even more by this time"...it's not just for us...its also people looking to stay here for HD, or go where theres the most.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

texaswolf said:


> Correct...it's a thread about what the CEO of E* is not doing...and that is giving E* subs the channels that D* has...so unfortunately, the streams will cross here and there.


Not quite. It is a thread about what was on the Charlie Chat Monday night. If you want to focus on one topic wasn't there there are plenty of threads available. Charlie didn't talk about global warming (although he did mention paperless billing). That doesn't make this the global warming thread.

D* vs E* belongs elsewhere ... thanks for your understanding and cooperation.



> Thanks for putting this up for the folks that did get to see it..forgot to say that earlier


No problem. Heroes wasn't on last night anyways. 



ScoBuck said:


> No - definitely NOT a competitor vs competitor discussion - it is a discussion on last nights Charlie Chat - and fair game for different points of view.


Thanks for understanding.



> Not addressing it has caused continued stirring in the DISH fourms on the sites that I visit.


With all due respect, just how much influence do you think these forums have? The site stats are looking great but "continued stirring" on a few Internet forums isn't a big deal. Especially when a lot of the stirring seems to be from non-Dish customers taking pot shots.

E* cares about real numbers ... that is what they are concentrating on and dealing with in their own way. Serving the 13 million (most of who don't even have HD) is vastly more important than serving a noisy few.


----------



## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

James Long said:


> Saving you an hour of watching TV ...
> 
> (At least you know you didn't miss anything.)


Great job James!


----------



## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

> E* cares about real numbers ... that is what they are concentrating on and dealing with in their own way. Serving the 13 million (most of who don't even have HD) is vastly more important than serving a noisy few.


So you think both companies are spending millions in HD ad's...for a few subs?

With that logic, you would think they would be spending millions on all the non HD ad's...not "leader in HD" ad's or "HD local" ad's. Or give aways of HDTV's.

ehhh...Paul...couldn't help but notice you Dec 17th. sig......whatcha know?


----------



## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

James Long said:


> With all due respect, just how much influence do you think these forums have? The site stats are looking great but "continued stirring" on a few Internet forums isn't a big deal. Especially when a lot of the stirring seems to be from non-Dish customers taking pot shots.


But my comments ARE on an internet forum, addressing other's comments also on internet forums.

And stating an opinion is not taking a pot shot - not when it is intended to present a reasonable point of view. Who you buy your service from doesn't change the validity of the argument.


----------



## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

HDG said:


> What a let-down. It trully was a blatant informercial. Maybe we brought it onto ourselves with our wishful thinking, but even the most novice of viewers would have to concur that we witnessed an hour-long Dish commercial. I sure hope the next Tech Chat fairs better.


I really don't this commercial err show any longer.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

how great would it be to see streaming live emails scroll across the bottom of the screen during CC.

****wheres our new HD channels?**** scrolling....

Now *that* would be a true Q & A session.


----------



## tomcrown1 (Jan 16, 2006)

texaswolf said:


> So you think both companies are spending millions in HD ad's...for a few subs?
> 
> With that logic, you would think they would be spending millions on all the non HD ad's...not "leader in HD" ad's or "HD local" ad's. Or give aways of HDTV's.
> 
> ehhh...Paul...couldn't help but notice you Dec 17th. sig......whatcha know?


Paul is getting his HD TV on DEC 17 2007 YEAH!!


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

texaswolf said:


> So you think both companies are spending millions in HD ad's...for a few subs?


No ... but advertising is advertising. E* is still advertising. The complaint was that Charlie didn't answer the questions apparently on "everybody's mind" ... not that E* isn't advertising.



> With that logic, you would think they would be spending millions on all the non HD ad's...not "leader in HD" ad's or "HD local" ad's. Or give aways of HDTV's.


Charlie Chats are not for non-customers. Except for a relative handful of people getting the information second hand via summaries and a smaller handful watching on deactivated equipment or FTA the audience is the 13 million plus E* subscribers with SD sets. It's called up-selling.

Nearly everything on the program was related to either up-selling customers to the add more programming or letting them know what is on the service that they may be missing.



> ehhh...Paul...couldn't help but notice you Dec 17th. sig......whatcha know?


Paul ordered himself a HDTV ... it is coming soon. Then he can watch SD on a HD set like the best of us!


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## Raymie (Mar 31, 2007)

If I were a Dish subscriber, I'd stay away from the Charlie Chats now. They do seem to be snoozefests. (I'm a cable subscriber.)


----------



## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

I did notice that CHarlie seemed to be on the same page as his comments last May at Team summit, in regard to HD locals. He said last May that DISH would have 100 hd locals by sometime in 2008. He is still saying that in December as of last night's chat . So this gives me hope that the origional plans announced last May about a relaunch of DISH in mpeg 4 will still follow through as well. 

Hey I can still hope anyway.


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

James Long said:


> Here is your choice -
> 
> Answer: Combine "if you don't have anything good to say, don't say anything" with "better to keep your mouth shut and be called a fool than open it and prove you are a fool".


If the answer as you suggest is a combination of :

1) DISH said nothing because they have NOTHING GOOD to say for now.
2) IF CHARLIE had opened his mouth he would have proved he is a fool (which I don't believe - but YOU SAID IT).

Then what positive is there for now?

Sorry, but those are YOUR words, not mine.


----------



## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

> Charlie Chats are not for non-customers. Except for a relative handful of people getting the information second hand via summaries and a smaller handful watching on deactivated equipment or FTA the audience is the 13 million plus E* subscribers with SD sets. It's called up-selling.
> 
> Nearly everything on the program was related to either up-selling customers to the add more programming or letting them know what is on the service that they may be missing.


Uh huh...and what are up selling customers getting? HD, or a bigger package...but when customers call and get no info, and the CEO, shows his face, and has no info, except for what people already know...it's not good. the average joe that makes the jump to HD is going for the best bang for the buck..whether its in the HDDVD market or television...so they are going to look at who is going to give me the most HD for the lowest price. You need to give all those people something to look forward to...and with zero communication from the company...thats not going to help...like it was said in another thread...it will be interesting to see the year end numbers and first quarter next year. As the CEO, he need to communicate with customers, and since he offers CC to them, then why not talk to them there...i know a lot don't watch it, but at least he is getting the word out. The silent treatment will just frustrate customers.


----------



## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

texaswolf said:


> Uh huh...and what are up selling customers getting? HD, or a bigger package...but when customers call and get no info, and the CEO, shows his face, and has no info, except for what people already know...it's not good. the average joe that makes the jump to HD is going for the best bang for the buck..whether its in the HDDVD market or television...so they are going to look at who is going to give me the most HD for the lowest price. You need to give all those people something to look forward to...and with zero communication from the company...thats not going to help...like it was said in another thread...it will be interesting to see the year end numbers and first quarter next year. As the CEO, he need to communicate with customers, and since he offers CC to them, then why not talk to them there...i know a lot don't watch it, but at least he is getting the word out. The silent treatment will just frustrate customers.


Only because some fans will look to find ANY excuse for EVERY step they make.

BTW - I fully agree with you.


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## bartendress (Oct 8, 2007)

texaswolf said:


> Uh huh...and what are up selling customers getting? HD, or a bigger package...but when customers call and get no info, and the CEO, shows his face, and has no info, except for what people already know...it's not good. the average joe that makes the jump to HD is going for the best bang for the buck..whether its in the HDDVD market or television...so they are going to look at who is going to give me the most HD for the lowest price. You need to give all those people something to look forward to...and with zero communication from the company...thats not going to help...like it was said in another thread...it will be interesting to see the year end numbers and first quarter next year. As the CEO, he need to communicate with customers, and since he offers CC to them, then why not talk to them there...i know a lot don't watch it, but at least he is getting the word out. The silent treatment will just frustrate customers.


It seems to me that maybe they should just put a stop to the Charlie Chats. I mean, now many other providers (either cable or satellite) do something similar?

I was a Time Horror customer for many, many years... and in all that time I never saw a "Ted Turner Chat".... So yeah, since DISH needs to be like all the other guys, let's just cancel the Charlie Chats.


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## Dicx (Sep 17, 2007)

Not sure if investors or Wall Street watches or cares, however stock was down 3.12% today to close below 40 (38.x).


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

bartendress said:


> It seems to me that maybe they should just put a stop to the Charlie Chats. I mean, now many other providers (either cable or satellite) do something similar?
> 
> I was a Time Horror customer for many, many years... and in all that time I never saw a "Ted Turner Chat".... So yeah, since DISH needs to be like all the other guys, let's just cancel the Charlie Chats.


or put it to better use..anyone watching it whether it be one of us from a forum standpoint, or you average sub who stumbles upon it, will see most of the stuff they talked about and be like..."no sh**".

Come up with things that most dont know...like the sling tops for example....or what direction they are trying to go for new channels.

I mean how hard would it have been to simply say, "we know a lot of you out there are wondering about new HD, we hope to have XX number of channels by...." OR "we are doing our best with movie some channels around, and hope to have new HD for you within....." is that so hard?

Silence is golden rule works when you have more HD, but when the other guy is offering more and advertising it at every corner, you need to speak up.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

Dicx said:


> Not sure if investors or Wall Street watches or cares, however stock was down 3.12% today to close below 40 (38.x).


the whole market dropped today...wasn't just E*....D* was down 3.25% too


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

Larry Kenney said:


> Thanks for the comprehensive review, Jim...The "Charley Chats" used to be interesting, but no longer. They've become too commercial and don't provide any new information any more. Too bad...
> 
> Oh well...
> 
> ...


Same kind of fluff as past Charlie chats over the last 7 years...not much better, but not much worse. :shrug:

Thanks for the recap, James. :goodjob:


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

ScoBuck said:


> If the answer as you suggest is a combination of :
> 
> 1) DISH said nothing because they have NOTHING GOOD to say for now.
> 2) IF CHARLIE had opened his mouth he would have proved he is a fool (which I don't believe - but YOU SAID IT).
> ...


As long as they are not Charlie's words it's fine with me. 
It still goes back to my point ... why should Charlie give competitors ANYTHING to work with?

Silence is fine.


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## Henry (Nov 15, 2007)

texaswolf said:


> _[...] _*The silent treatment will just frustrate customers.*




That was the gist of one of my _frustrated_ posts last night, tw. I don't so mind the lack of specific content in last night's CC as I am concerned about Dish's trend to keep its subs in the dark.

I still think we might have brought this on ourselves. We had high expectations centered on one subject, and it didn't pan out.

Nonetheless, there should have been at least some (however low-keyed) comment that acknowledged recent happenings in the market and an appropriate Dish response to it.

Nada.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

James Long said:


> As long as they are not Charlie's words it's fine with me.
> It still goes back to my point ... why should Charlie give competitors ANYTHING to work with?
> 
> Silence is fine.


they don't really need much to work with anymore, they seem to be whooping him just fine...keeping subs informed would be a good start...
his known stubbornness in business is one thing, but being stubborn with the people who help you collect a yearly bonus...is another...he was clearly uncomfortable last night, to the point of looking annoyed a few times


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

Charlie's performance reminds me of Nero.


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## bartendress (Oct 8, 2007)

HDG said:


> [/B]I don't so mind the lack of specific content in last night's CC as I am concerned about Dish's trend to keep its subs in the dark.


We're subscribers, not stock holders.

We're paying for the services we receive... not the services we expect to receive some day in the future. I bought my 2007 Toyota this spring expecting a 2007 Toyota... not what they might offer for 2008 or 2009. Who, exactly, do we think we are?

There are tons of cable subs out there who can't get something _we _take for granted like NFL Network or Big Ten Network, etc in *SD!*... and we're beating up the boards (and sometimes each other) because we can't get Bravo "HD" (read: 95% SD upconvert) AND we can't get Charlie to explain why he goes to the bathroom at certain times of the day and, when he does, why he went #2 instead of #1.

We all have the opportunity to examine the facts and dance with the devil of our choosing. If you want a voice in the ops of E* then go buy a bunch of stock, get on the Board of Directors and have at it. </rant>


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

bartendress said:


> We're subscribers, not stock holders.


Yeah, but I still don't want them to go out of business or become AT&T. I've gotten my tv from Echostar since 1988.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

Thank you Ms. Bartendress. Very well stated. While I am sure the chat was every bit as boring as people have stated, much of the complaining is coming from people who DON'T EVEN HAVE THE SERVICE!!!! While James did a great job of recapping the chat (AS USUAL), I don't understand how those who didn't even watch it can comment on Charlie's "performance". They didn't see or hear his "performance". They are the people who went out and bought a 2007 Nissan and yet complain about the lack of enough cup holders in the 2007 Toyota. Why does it matter to them that the 2007 Toyota has fewer cup holders?


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Richard King said:


> Why does it matter to them that the 2007 Toyota has fewer cup holders?


My Packard is useless to me. They didn't survive. I liked my Packard.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

bartendress said:


> We're subscribers, not stock holders.
> 
> We're paying for the services we receive... not the services we expect to receive some day in the future. I bought my 2007 Toyota this spring expecting a 2007 Toyota... not what they might offer for 2008 or 2009. Who, exactly, do we think we are?
> 
> ...


I guess we think we are the people who were told of certain HD coming, and that e* would continue to be the leader in HD and add it when it is available....so we chose to leave those cable companies you mentioned and sign here...now they aren't pulling through...so yeah, we can complain. If toyota had told you they were going to keep you up to date with the newest sound system, gps, ect....and then you see a honda driving around with it and toyota didnt have it...you could complain too.

This whole idea of bow down, and consider yourself lucky to have it is ridiculous....Charlie is the CEO of the company we chose as our sat provider due to his promises to stay at the top of HD content...now that the content is out there and we dont have it, and he isn't saying anything what so ever to make us think differently....we can call him on it. CEO's are held accountable for company actions all the time, and you don't have to hold stock it the company to do so. Without all of us non stock holders subscribing to his service, there would be no company. Where exactly do you think he gets his salary? or millions in bonus every year? So thats who we think we are...just some guys blabbing about a CEO making poor customer(thats us) service choices in the company we subscribe to. It's nothing for super supporters to take personal...just some BSing going on, thats all.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

phrelin said:


> bartendress said:
> 
> 
> > We're subscribers, not stock holders.
> ...


Neither of those events are likely to happen anytime soon.

Stockholders should be watching the investor relations website and reading the materials provided to them. Charlie Chat isn't intended as that level of communication. It is intended as a folksy marketing tool for DISH Network.



texaswolf said:


> I guess we think we are the people who were told of certain HD coming, and that e* would continue to be the leader in HD and add it when it is available....


E* has missed some targets ... now they have stopped setting up targets to miss (other than the long term 100 HD markets by the end of 2008).

We've gone over this before ... longer than you've been a member. Mr Ergen (due some respect as the majority owner and controller of a billion dollar company) is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. If he says "no new HD until March" people will scream that it is not soon enough. If he says "new HD tomorrow" and it doesn't come until Friday people will scream that he broke a promise. If he says "new HD tomorrow" and delivers people will scream that it is not enough. If he says nothing people will scream.

If people are going to scream he might as well do what he wants ... and not worry about the screamers. The current trend is silence. Which is why I was not surprised by "no announcement".


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

Well stated, James.

I don't understand all the vitriol against Charlie. The advancements in hardware
and programming that have occured in the seven years since I first subbed to
Dish back in 2000 have been considerable, but for some, it's never enough.

As several posters have suggested, if someone doesn't like the way EchoStar
is run, they should pull together a few bazillion bucks and buy into the company.

Come to think of it, I wish I had DirecTV so's I could watch all _their_ 'charlie' and
tech chats.


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## LinkNuc (Jul 4, 2007)

Thanks Charlie, you are making the decision easier and easier to back to D*


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

Richard King said:


> Thank you Ms. Bartendress. Very well stated. While I am sure the chat was every bit as boring as people have stated, much of the complaining is coming from people who DON'T EVEN HAVE THE SERVICE!!!! While James did a great job of recapping the chat (AS USUAL), I don't understand how those who didn't even watch it can comment on Charlie's "performance". They didn't see or hear his "performance". They are the people who went out and bought a 2007 Nissan and yet complain about the lack of enough cup holders in the 2007 Toyota. Why does it matter to them that the 2007 Toyota has fewer cup holders?


True - but I for one (not a DISH sub) DID watch Charlies Chat - and thus I think I can comment on his performance (blinked an awful lot I will say). How would you know who did or didn't watch or listen to is comments? I judge from your comment that you are the one that didn't watch it - so how can you comment?

There are people here that have one service that are interested in what the other services are now and what they plan to provide - surpirsed you can't understand that concept.

And this is NOT a thread about people COMMENTING on the chat - it is discussion on the chat itself I thought. On-topic please.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

> If he says "no new HD until March" people will scream that it is not soon enough. If he says "new HD tomorrow" and it doesn't come until Friday people will scream that he broke a promise. If he says "new HD tomorrow" and delivers people will scream that it is not enough. If he says nothing people will scream.


Honestly, I'd rather he said no new HD until March, than nothing at all...at least we would no what to expect. But mostly it would help subs upgrading to HD, who are deciding which way to go for the HD content they want. They have D* throwing out commercials at them left and right, about the new channels they added and are continuing to add, and then they have E*...who isn't talking. Now he does that great with the tech stuff...i just wish he did it with programming too. like i stated before...a simple "we are working on bringing X to X amount of channels by this time, or within this time"...this would have been nice to touch up on, since there is 19 or so days left in the year, and we still haven't seen the new HD they had mentioned...and if it isn't coming...say so. Now most thinking is that USA and Scifi will be lit up soon...maybe today...and maybe thats what they are going to say they were talking about...

Maybe it's just me, but if I were trying to bring in new HD subs and retain current subs, i would give them some info on what to expect.


> I don't understand all the vitriol against Charlie. The advancements in hardware
> and programming that have occured in the seven years since I first subbed to
> Dish back in 2000 have been considerable, but for some, it's never enough.


seven years is a long time...but the advancements made by his main competitior in the last 3 months on programming has been much more than considerable...once they get the sats up, they will probably pull off the same thing D* did and there wont be an issue...but on the mean time he keeps subs in the dark....and sit on a false "leader" in HD title.


> Come to think of it, I wish I had DirecTV so's I could watch all their 'charlie' and
> tech chats.


you wouldn't have time, you'd be too busy enjoying all your new HD channels j/k...cheap shot i know....I like the fact that he offers it, just wish he offered a little more info on it. Did anyone ever find out when the next tech chat is?


----------



## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I choose to eat at Wendy's quite a lot... but I don't believe that entitles me to determine the course of that company's future. Back when he was alive, Dave Thomas was on a lot of commercials speaking to the customers about his company... and again, I never felt like Dave Thomas owed it to me to tell me about upcoming new items on the 99cent value menu or a new burger/chicken sandwich design to compete with the latest design from Burger King.

So I've never understood the "Charlie owes me" rants from folks about how they are owed all kinds of information from Dish. Bottom line is we pay for service, so they owe us the service we are paying for. Anything else is a bonus, and that includes the Charlie Chats.

If you don't like the bang for your buck from Dish, there are lots of alternatives depending upon where you live.


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## FTA Michael (Jul 21, 2002)

For years now, the Charlie Chat has (d)evolved into a promo hour. There's a best-spin recap on recent events, some wish-they-were-interesting guests promoting this channel or that show, a few well-screened "real" questions, and maybe a pinch of guarded discussion of upcoming stuff that DBSTalk visitors probably already know about.

The days when Charlie would frankly discuss the ups and downs of his burgeoning company are long gone. I'll always remember those good times, but I would be foolish to expect them to return soon.


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## DStroyer (May 9, 2007)

HDMe said:


> I choose to eat at Wendy's quite a lot... but I don't believe that entitles me to determine the course of that company's future.
> 
> {.......}
> 
> If you don't like the bang for your buck from Dish, there are lots of alternatives depending upon where you live.


Here's the difference: When Wendy's doesn't have fries at the particular time I'm there, I don't have to take a day off of work to drive 238 miles to Burger King and run the risk of getting there and having them tell me, "Sorry, we can't take order today. Why don't you come back next month and we'll reschedule your order? Oh, and by the way, if you're a new customer to this Burger King location, your first burger is going to cost you $200." Meanwhile, Wendy's is sending me a letter telling me they have to charge me a "walking away from the restaurant" fee.

It's an internet message board, and we're just venting. We're just expressing views and opinions, just like you are.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

HDMe said:


> I choose to eat at Wendy's quite a lot... but I don't believe that entitles me to determine the course of that company's future. Back when he was alive, Dave Thomas was on a lot of commercials speaking to the customers about his company... and again, I never felt like Dave Thomas owed it to me to tell me about upcoming new items on the 99cent value menu or a new burger/chicken sandwich design to compete with the latest design from Burger King.
> 
> So I've never understood the "Charlie owes me" rants from folks about how they are owed all kinds of information from Dish. Bottom line is we pay for service, so they owe us the service we are paying for. Anything else is a bonus, and that includes the Charlie Chats.
> 
> If you don't like the bang for your buck from Dish, there are lots of alternatives depending upon where you live.


Comparing a fast food chain to a sat company is apples and oranges. Im not installing a Wendys sign on my house to use their service, nor paying a monthly bill. Wendy's wont charge $200 if you decide to leave and get a Big Mac.
I never said "Charlie owes me"...i said i think he should give some more info to his subs...but then again...after publicly stating that E* would stay the leader in HD...maybe he does owe them some kind of explanation of why he isn't able to pull the currently available channels. People like myself who asked when we signed up, about new channels coming and specifically certain channels in HD when they become available in HD ...and were told the opposite of what is happening...may like a little something to chew on. i know I know...that was the salespersons fault for telling me that, and thats not Charlies fault.....but it was E* sales. I'm not unhappy enough to up and leave..I love the 622 (although i need another receiver to add surround in the other room, now), and I love the external hard drive feature...and may look into the sling box...and one of the main channels i asked about before joining was scifi HD....so far nothing today, but i'm hoping...I'm just simply talking about the CEO and his "customer relations" and marketing strategies he brings to CC.


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## Henry (Nov 15, 2007)

bartendress said:


> We're subscribers, not stock holders.


...and CC is not for stock holders. It is/was advertized over the air for us the subscribers. If they know our expectations are high on a subject, they should address it. You didn't hear them discussing any mergers or stock price fluctuations or re-naming the company. The program is about them talking to us about programing and services ... if they fall short of the mark, we have every right to grouse about it.


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

DStroyer said:


> It's an internet message board, and we're just venting. We're just expressing views and opinions, just like you are.


BINGO

And why does anyone only think ONE SIDE is allowed its opinion?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

ScoBuck said:


> True - but I for one (not a DISH sub) DID watch Charlies Chat -


Really? How?

The chat was intended for E* customers. You are not in the intended audience.
It does not surprise me at all that you didn't like the chat. It was not uplinked for you!


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

If there is anything subscribers ought to vent about, it's the Charlie Chats. No one else has any reason to watch them - it isn't like they are enjoyable programming (unless you see the unintended humor like the two top executives not being clear on what 1080p is after having just spent considerable time promoting HD). It seemed like there was a time Charlie Chats weren't mostly marketing and provided some info. But my memory has gotten fuzzy, as my expectations increase.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

phrelin said:


> If there is anything subscribers ought to vent about, it's the Charlie Chats. No one else has any reason to watch them - it isn't like they are enjoyable programming (unless you see the unintended humor like the two top executives not being clear on what 1080p is after having just spent considerable time promoting HD). It seemed like there was a time Charlie Chats weren't mostly marketing and provided some info. But my memory has gotten fuzzy, as my expectations increase.


yeah, one of friends was over when i clicked it on....told him _maybe_ we might here about new HD (he is leaving charter and trying to decide which sat. comp. to go with)...after seeing them confused over the 1080p thing he asked "who are these guys again" i told him and he just laughed...."thats not good" he said....he was leaning twards D* anyway, but i told him to hold up til the end of year. see what charlie says here, and see what E* does....looks like he got his answer.

Did a post just vanish? or am i seeing things?


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Nope.. an offtopic post was removed.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

texaswolf said:


> Did a post just vanish? or am i seeing things?


You deleted your own post ... other than that, we don't discuss moderation in public forums.
(Unless Ron beats me to it.)

When I watch Charlie Chat my wife rolls her eyes and goes into another room.
Remember, not only am I watching it - but most months I'm taking notes! 

It's good to have neighbors to show you these things ... but the neighbor isn't the target audience.


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## Henry (Nov 15, 2007)

I always have to record it and watch it after hours. Wife can't stand anything on Ch 101. :lol:


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

Ron Barry said:


> Nope.. an offtopic post was removed.


ahhh gotcha.



> You deleted your own post ... other than that, we don't discuss moderation in public forums.
> (Unless Ron beats me to it.)


I don't recall seeing it brought up until you did....i deleted mine since i quoted the wrong one...came back an it had vanished.



> I always have to record it and watch it after hours. Wife can't stand anything on Ch 101.


yeah...we were lucky enough that our wives went shopping...:lol:

hey i didnt catch if they said there was a monthly fee for sling tops...anyone else catch it?


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

That is what I call a regular Nerd vest there..


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

if you meant Nerd fest....then yeah that was us that night...went from CC to Paranormal State....was a disappointing night all around:lol:


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

texaswolf said:


> hey i didnt catch if they said there was a monthly fee for sling tops...anyone else catch it?


Sling does not charge a monthly fee!

PS: They are called "SlingBox" ... from Sling Media, owned by Echostar Communications Corperation, er Echostar Holding Company soon to be Echostar Communications Corporation.

http://www.slingbox.com/


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

James Long said:


> Sling does not charge a monthly fee!
> 
> PS: They are called "SlingBox" ... from Sling Media, owned by Echostar Communications Corperation, er Echostar Holding Company soon to be Echostar Communications Corporation.
> 
> http://www.slingbox.com/


Very cool, thanks!


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

Ron Barry said:


> I would agree with this, but as I said in an above post. Charlie Chats are more for the average Joe and roll out details of HD is not really for the average Joe I would think. For us... Heck yeah.. But for the rest of the people rolling into the HD world, just getting locals in HD or HBO and Starz is like WOW to them. (IMHO of course)


You must remember around 12 million of E's subs don't know/care about HD.. Excluding me as of Monday. Maybe Charlie is selling out or something.


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

texaswolf said:


> So you think both companies are spending millions in HD ad's...for a few subs?
> 
> With that logic, you would think they would be spending millions on all the non HD ad's...not "leader in HD" ad's or "HD local" ad's. Or give aways of HDTV's.
> 
> ehhh...Paul...couldn't help but notice you Dec 17th. sig......whatcha know?


HD install


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

Paul Secic said:


> HD install


Congrats...if your anything like me you'll stuck in the All HD menu,,,:lol:


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

texaswolf said:


> if you meant Nerd fest....then yeah that was us that night...went from CC to Paranormal State....was a disappointing night all around:lol:


Yeah.. I meant fest not vest.. :lol: was heading out to the xmas party and slipped a finger typing. 

Yeah.. I can see how that would be a disappointing night.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

Paul Secic said:


> You must remember around 12 million of E's subs don't know/care about HD.. Excluding me as of Monday. Maybe Charlie is selling out or something.


So, as of Monday it will be 11,999,999? Congrats on the HD install.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

Ron Barry said:


> Yeah.. I meant fest not vest.. :lol: was heading out to the xmas party and slipped a finger typing.
> 
> Yeah.. I can see how that would be a disappointing night.


yeah, and since we didn't hear anything on the SciFi/USA up link on CC...could be a disappointing week


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## tomcrown1 (Jan 16, 2006)

Paul Secic said:


> You must remember around 12 million of E's subs don't know/care about HD.. Excluding me as of Monday. Maybe Charlie is selling out or something.


It it Dec 17th already???


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## Link (Feb 2, 2004)

They always like to say the VOOM channels are exclusive to Dish, but does anyone really care about them?

Has either D* or E* added RFD-TV in HD yet?


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

Link said:


> They always like to say the VOOM channels are exclusive to Dish, but does anyone really care about them?
> 
> Has either D* or E* added RFD-TV in HD yet?


yep, a lot of people love them...i don't mind them, but could do without...well maybe...point is, a lot of people love them


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## Link (Feb 2, 2004)

texaswolf said:


> yep, a lot of people love them...i don't mind them, but could do without...well maybe...point is, a lot of people love them


I suppose the VOOM channels are the only thing exclusive E* can brag about with HD when D* seems to be getting everything else.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

Link said:


> They always like to say the VOOM channels are exclusive to Dish, but does anyone really care about them?


For me Rave is the best thing in HD, so, I guess some do care about them.


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## Gilitar (Aug 1, 2004)

Guys, after reading about the latest Charlie Chat I think he is selling out in the near future. AT&T will probably snatch up E* after the spectrum auction that is coming up.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

Gilitar said:


> Guys, after reading about the latest Charlie Chat I think he is selling out in the near future. AT&T will probably snatch up E* after the spectrum auction that is coming up.


I dont think soon...he will wait til he has more to offer and sell it at top price...if he even sells at all...but that a WHOLE other thread.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

I don't think the "tone" of the CC has anything to do with the sale of the company. This chat was pretty similar to most chats in the recent (and not too recent past).


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## Henry (Nov 15, 2007)

bartendress said:


> We're subscribers, not stock holders.
> 
> We're paying for the services we receive... not the services we expect to receive some day in the future. I bought my 2007 Toyota this spring expecting a 2007 Toyota... not what they might offer for 2008 or 2009. *Who, exactly, do we think we are?*
> There are tons of cable subs out there who can't get something _we _take for granted like NFL Network or Big Ten Network, etc in *SD!*... and we're beating up the boards (and sometimes each other) because we can't get Bravo "HD" (read: 95% SD upconvert) AND we can't get Charlie to explain why he goes to the bathroom at certain times of the day and, when he does, why he went #2 instead of #1.
> ...


I'm still a little peeved at this post, BT ... seems to me you somehow think that a stock holder's voice speaks louder than us subscribers ... that we as subs have little or no choice on what is aired or how it's aired ... and that we should be grateful for any and all kernels of programing they provide us.

Market success for a service like Dish has never been measured by the number of stock holders it has ... it is measured by the revenue derived by the number of - are you ready for this? - _subscribers._ Stock holders add nothing to the bottom line, they're in it for the ride, gamblers and silent partners - subscribers add it all, every last penny of it.

So to answer your question ... *exactly *... I/we think we are the *subscribers* whom without Dish or any other company with a similar business plan would fail, especially in the midst of the arrogant statement you just made.


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## ravenwood61 (Nov 11, 2007)

HDG said:


> I'm still a little peeved at this post, BT ... seems to me you somehow think that a stock holder's voice speaks louder than us subscribers ... that we as subs have little or no choice on what is aired or how it's aired ... and that we should be grateful for any and all kernels of programing they provide us.
> 
> Market success for a service like Dish has never been measured by the number of stock holders it has ... it is measured by the revenue derived by the number of - are you ready for this? - _subscribers._ Stock holders add nothing to the bottom line, they're in it for the ride, gamblers and silent partners - subscribers add it all, every last penny of it.
> 
> So to answer your question ... *exactly *... I/we think we are the *subscribers* whom without Dish or any other company with a similar business plan would fail, especially in the midst of the arrogant statement you just made.


All CEO's are obligated to act in the stockholder's interest by increasing the value of the company and/or their investment. Keeping stockholders happy is the top-most priority for any company.

That's good news for customers though because keeping customers reasonably happy usually is a good way to also keep your stockholders happy. Without customers, the company's value is zero. (Note: if the company makes its customers extremely happy by giving product away for free, it's value also goes to zero.)

The analogy of buying a 2007 Toyota is flawed since the Toyota is a one-time purchase and DishNetwork is mostly a monthly service. Each month, (provided you are not under contract ) you get to decide whether or not to remain a DishNetwork customer. Given that, HDG is correct that it's very important for E* to continuously offer competitive services.


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## bartendress (Oct 8, 2007)

I had to call customer dis-service a short time ago because I wanted to go ahead and drop the HBO/Skinamax free trial I'm not using and question an item on my bill. I was able to take care of one of my two issues on the call... only because I used the automated system to cancel the premium channels. LOL

The thing that entertained me the most is that the introductory 'welcome' message on the customer service line thanks you for calling DISH Network, "the leader in DVR and HD."

At least they properly acknowledge which area is their strong-suit. I found it funny given the "nobody does HD better" line on Monday's Charlie Chat.


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## bartendress (Oct 8, 2007)

HDG said:


> I'm still a little peeved at this post, BT ... seems to me you somehow think that a stock holder's voice speaks louder than us subscribers ... that we as subs have little or no choice on what is aired or how it's aired ... and that we should be grateful for any and all kernels of programing they provide us.
> 
> Market success for a service like Dish has never been measured by the number of stock holders it has ... it is measured by the revenue derived by the number of - are you ready for this? - _subscribers._ Stock holders add nothing to the bottom line, they're in it for the ride, gamblers and silent partners - subscribers add it all, every last penny of it.
> 
> So to answer your question ... *exactly *... I/we think we are the *subscribers* whom without Dish or any other company with a similar business plan would fail, especially in the midst of the arrogant statement you just made.


I think you missed my point here, HDG.

What I'm saying, in regard to feedback from Charlie to subscribers, is that 99.9% of the CEOs of major corporations don't directly address their customers' questions or complants (right or wrong). Charlie may or may have not done this in the past... I'll admit that I have not been an E* sub long enough to know that. Regardless, I do not feel it's his place... or the place of any other CEO to do so.

I never saw Dave Thomas on live television to address customers who were upset because there were not enough items on the 99-cent menu... nor have I seen Michael Dell on live TV talking about the software he does bundle on his PC's vs the software customers have stated they want bundled.

What Charlie did do the other night is what he is expected to do.

My point is that I signed up for the DISH service that was available at the time I did so: 
*Do I expect the service to improve over time? Absolutely.
*Do I expect to see more HD channels in the future? Absolutely.
*Do I expect E* to listen to (and respond) to my complaints? Absolutely.

And I vote with my wallet each month. At some point, if I feel E* is not improving or adding HD channels or listening to my concerns/complaints... will I switch providers? Absolutely.

Will I berate Charlie for not answering certain questions while doing something unique for someone in his position and something he is in no way obligated to do? Absolutely not.


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## bartendress (Oct 8, 2007)

ravenwood61 said:


> The analogy of buying a 2007 Toyota is flawed since the Toyota is a one-time purchase and DishNetwork is mostly a monthly service. Each month, (provided you are not under contract ) you get to decide whether or not to remain a DishNetwork customer. Given that, HDG is correct that it's very important for E* to continuously offer competitive services.


I SO agree with this comment!

The Toyota analogy was an exercise in drawing attention to absurdity by being absurd.

I work in a 'customer service-ish' job. Once in a while, customers will try to micro-manage a situation. And, _once in a great while_, a customer will enthusiastically try to micro-manage.

While we always want the customer to think he/she is right, there are occasions where it's appropriate to push back and remind the customer that it's _not their place_ to run _our_ business.


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## Henry (Nov 15, 2007)

Thank you, BT.

While Charlie hasn't abrogated is responsibilities to stock holders, he has voluntarilly placed himself in the position to be directly answerable to his subscriber base by advertising and participating in the Chalier Chats, and using them as a forum for fielding questions about programing and services. 

What other CEOs do is their business. Charlie has chosen to host a show aimed exclusively at the subscribers and therefore should live up to that responsibility. The fact that he is hosting the shows is evidence that he understands the fundamental value of the subs and the life's blood revenue they represent. 

Are you listening, Charlie?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Mr Ergen's choice to participate in Charlie Chats is on _his_ terms, not ours.

His terms means that when he and his staff chooses the the chat can be mostly promotional and very light on questions. Or the can get much deeper when they choose to do so. He is under no compulsion to do the show the way we want.

That does not mean you have to be happy about it, but he's the boss of Echostar Communications Corp ... not us!


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## HobbyTalk (Jul 14, 2007)

While I normally don’t get into these pissing contests I had to pipe in here.

Sure Charlie is the CEO and sure the CC is on his terms. He is not doing the CCs for his health but to appease his audience (re: subscribers) or it could even be to feed his ego. If his choice of performance is not what his audience (re: subscribes) wants then it is possible that there will be a smaller audience viewing the next CC.

I’ve have only had the opportunity to watch two CCs, but from those two I have come to the conclusion that both of them are pretty clueless when it comes to the actual technology being used. An example is the 1080i/p fiasco on the last one and the confusion about receivers on the first one I watched.

Am I suppose to be in awe because a CEO of a company decides to address his customers? CEOs do that all of the time and in even more personal face-to-face venues.... Bill Gates and Steve Jobs are just two examples. What might awe me is a CEO (or any spokeserson) that addresses their customer base with useful and knowledgable information and answers the tough questions instead of skirts them.

You are absolutely correct, is his HIS choice. Make the wrong choice and that could adversely affect the subscriber base. If the choice is wrong enough, the better choice may be not to have CCs at all.


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## Henry (Nov 15, 2007)

Thanks, James and Hobby ... Last comment on the subject ... Charlie set the expectations when he chose to host the show. Why else would you or me sit and watch an hour-long infomercial?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Why not? There are 14 24/7 infomercial/shopping channels on E* that manage to get enough response to pay for their satellite time. Infomercials are IN!


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## Henry (Nov 15, 2007)

James Long said:


> Why not? There are 14 24/7 infomercial/shopping channels on E* that manage to get enough response to pay for their satellite time. Infomercials are IN!


Condolences to your wife.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

There are 14 shopping/infomercial channels on E* ... all but two are locked and hidden on my receivers.


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## HobbyTalk (Jul 14, 2007)

It is my understanding that the Shopping channels pay to be placed on the providers system, the provider does not have to pay for them.


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## Henry (Nov 15, 2007)

James Long said:


> There are 14 shopping/infomercial channels on E* ... all but two are locked and hidden on my receivers.


I was poking fun at you and obviously you are a good sport. :hurah:

But like Hobby hints, it would be an aweful shame if I were paying for those shopping channels. But, if so ... there you go ... I'm ashamed to admit that I subscribe to 250 channels yet only view a fraction of them. Even still, I like to feel empowered to watch them if I ever chose, although I have resisted that temptation for the last five years. I wonder how much $$$ I would have saved otherwise ... hmmm!


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

The point was ... so what if Charlie Chat is an infomercial ...
Infomercials are very popular ... there are 14 channels making enough money playing infomercials 24/7 that they can pay for their satellite space. 

If they were not popular they would not make money.
If they were not making money they wouldn't pay E* for the satellite space.
If they were not paying E* they wouldn't be on the air.


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## Henry (Nov 15, 2007)

James Long said:


> The point was ... so what if Charlie Chat is an infomercial ...
> Infomercials are very popular ... there are 14 channels making enough money playing infomercials 24/7 that they can pay for their satellite space.
> 
> If they were not popular they would not make money.
> ...


And that's OK for those so inclined ... we're not. I never, until this last broadcast, considered the fact that CC was a blatant Infomercial. I'm chagrined to admit that it was always that, by design... no better than any other after-hour "paid programing" load of crap.

Going forward, I'll guardedly stick with Tech Chat and give CC the bye. What the hell, I can always catch up on the CC content here in 3 minutes rather than 60.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

And I'm happy to help provide the time saving service! 

I do agree that past chats were less promotional ... but one has to go back a couple years for a chat that wasn't lampooned too badly.


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

James Long said:


> The point was ... so what if Charlie Chat is an infomercial ...


pretty simple really...

Infomercials point is to get people to but their product...people don't usually watch them after they have bought it.

CC is (as you stated before) for E* subscribers only....we can only watch it, after we have started paying for the service.

He doesn't have to do it, true...but if he is going to, then why blow smoke and waste the time of the people watching it, by telling them about the service they already know they have had for the past couple of months.

Perhaps a better name for it is Charlie's Recap?


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## John W (Dec 20, 2005)

James Long said:


> Mr Ergen's choice to participate in Charlie Chats is on _his_ terms, not ours.
> 
> His terms means that when he and his staff chooses the the chat can be mostly promotional and very light on questions. Or the can get much deeper when they choose to do so. He is under no compulsion to do the show the way we want.
> 
> That does not mean you have to be happy about it, but he's the boss of Echostar Communications Corp ... not us!


We're the customers. Without us, Echostar wouldn't need a boss.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

HobbyTalk said:


> It is my understanding that the Shopping channels pay to be placed on the providers system, the provider does not have to pay for them.


Depends on the contract worked out. Sometimes they pay for carriage, sometimes the carrier gets a percentage of the take from their customers. Often a different phone number is assigned for each carrier and the income is calculated off the calls on that number. Not that this matters to the conversation at hand.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

texaswolf said:


> pretty simple really...
> 
> Infomercials point is to get people to but their product...people don't usually watch them after they have bought it.


Perhaps you should take another look at the program or the recap ...
Do you subscribe to EVERYTHING that was mentioned on the chat?

There were promos for future PPV and channels people may have missed. They were trying to do an upsell. If you believe that Charlie Chats are in ANY WAY intended for non-customers you are mistaken.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Charlie Chats are just a song and dance ...

http://www.elfyourself.com/?id=1436698904


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

James Long said:


> Charlie Chats are just a song and dance ...
> 
> http://www.elfyourself.com/?id=1436698904


lol...nice...they should have had a sign in the background that says "we got your new HD right here pal"


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## texaswolf (Oct 18, 2007)

James Long said:


> Perhaps you should take another look at the program or the recap ...
> Do you subscribe to EVERYTHING that was mentioned on the chat?
> 
> There were promos for future PPV and channels people may have missed. They were trying to do an upsell. If you believe that Charlie Chats are in ANY WAY intended for non-customers you are mistaken.


as far as the programming they mentioned...yes...and anyone with a guide knew they had those channels.

where exactly did i say I thought it was intended for non-customers? I said:


> CC is (as you stated before) for E* subscribers only....we can only watch it, after we have started paying for the service


You don't think they were stalling for time? the 1080p question? the two questions that were brought up, after probably weeding through all the HD channel questions?


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## lazierfan (Jun 29, 2007)

After all that Charlie has to go home and use his OTA antenna to receive HD PBS.

Comcast has had it for years, and DirecTV announced HD PBS this week.

Meanwhile, we got HD Baseball channels showing the E* logo for another 5 months.......


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## manta07 (Dec 26, 2007)

I've been with Dish for about 8 years. One of the resons I selected Dish over DirecTV and Cable was the customer service they had which was superior to all the others.

I used the term "was" because this is no longer the case. I think over the past couple of years, Dish was subject to several changes that affected their industry:

1. Increased cost and fees charged by the content providers. We all remember the outages caused by Dish refusal to pay Hallmark the newer rate. Not that I watch these channels, but i don't think having the dispute brought out to the customers was very proffessional.

2. The disapproval of the merger with direcTV by the FCC. Dish had high hopes to cut cost and expand its market by this merger.

3. The growing popularity of the internet as a preffered source for content consumption is threatening the traditional broadcasting model. Anyone who owns a Media Center knows the great potential in downloading content from the internet with a single click on the remote. Once all content will be available to download (whether paid or for free), why would anyone want to purchase packaged channels just to see their favorite shows?

All these points would make one think that the content providers such as Dish, Dirct, or the cable companies would be really aware of customer service and improve it in such way to lure customers with greater benefits and service.

However, unfortuantely, this is not the case. On the contrary, it looks like the level of customer service is lowered by the minute and the user experience is getting worse and worse when it comes to contacting the provider.

I recently called Dish to switch a friend from Comcast. "Embarrased" would be an understatement - when the representatives (yes we tried several times) answered the phone. Not only it was extremely dificult to understand their accent, they kept reading us canned answers and were unable to address any specific question.

Well, it looks like Dish finally joined the bigger train of outsourcing, and outsourced their call centers to India and the Philipines.

I don't know how many of you had to call their customer service lately, but i find it very annoying to repeat myself and asking the other person to repeat themselves because I am unable to understand what they say.

My friend got frustrated after about 35 minutes on the phone with the representatives and decided to stay with comcast as Dish didn't offer any advantage over what he currently have and he was pretty concerned with the quality of customer service on the phone.

Reading all about the last Charlie chat here definitely aligns with the recent changes that Dish is going through and that raise a red flag to me. Maybe it is time to switch to DirectTV... at least for me....


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