# MPEG2 and MPEG4



## Joe Clark (Jan 10, 2006)

Anyone have a clue as to why Dish chose to broadcast 2 of these channels in MPEG2 and 2 in MPEG4 (Starz and the NFL channel are MPEG4)? Is it simply a matter of not having enough MPEG4 encoders available?

I've noticed that the Voom channels in MPEG4 have gotten a little better since the initial release, although they are still soft compared to the MPEG2 channels. Starz, though, is a stuttering, mushy mess. I know MPEG4 has the potential to look very good, but if you don't do it right, it can look awful.


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## lakebum431 (Jun 30, 2005)

What are you talking about? The new HD channels are all MPEG 4 and the new SD channels are MPEG 2. That is going to be the case for the forseeable future.


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

Joe Clark said:


> Anyone have a clue as to why Dish chose to broadcast 2 of these channels in MPEG2 and 2 in MPEG4 (Starz and the NFL channel are MPEG4)? Is it simply a matter of not having enough MPEG4 encoders available?
> 
> I've noticed that the Voom channels in MPEG4 have gotten a little better since the initial release, although they are still soft compared to the MPEG2 channels. Starz, though, is a stuttering, mushy mess. I know MPEG4 has the potential to look very good, but if you don't do it right, it can look awful.


What stttttttttuuuuuuuuutering problem? Have U hard rebooted system since Starz HD was added? Not seeing it on my sytem after the reboot. It's a standard work around until they get the s/w updated.


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## Joe Clark (Jan 10, 2006)

lakebum431 said:


> What are you talking about? The new HD channels are all MPEG 4 and the new SD channels are MPEG 2. That is going to be the case for the forseeable future.


I recorded short segments from each new HD channel. Two played on normal MPEG2 players (Windows Media Player, Nero, Media Player Classic, etc.). Two did not but played with my CoreAVC equipped dual core Athlon. That tells me two of the channels are MPEG2, not MPEG4.

Just tried a hard reboot. I'll see if it helps.


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## lakebum431 (Jun 30, 2005)

Sorry, what I actually meant was that all of the new HD channels have the "VIP" flag which will only allow the MPEG 4 receivers to see the channels.


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## kbdrand (Apr 16, 2006)

Joe Clark said:


> I recorded short segments from each new HD channel. Two played on normal MPEG2 players (Windows Media Player, Nero, Media Player Classic, etc.). Two did not but played with my CoreAVC equipped dual core Athlon. That tells me two of the channels are MPEG2, not MPEG4.
> 
> Just tried a hard reboot. I'll see if it helps.


How are you recording those programs and playing them back? I thought if you used a Echostar DVR you couldn't export to a PC?


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## BFG (Jan 23, 2004)

Joe is correct.

NFL HD and Starz Hd are real MPEG4 or H264 channels, HGTV and NGC are MPEG2 only available to vip receivers, like many other receivers.

His question of why 2 are mpeg2 and 2 are mpeg4 is a very good and puzzling question.


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## dumbguy (Jun 3, 2006)

Joe Clark said:


> I recorded short segments from each new HD channel. Two played on normal MPEG2 players (Windows Media Player, Nero, Media Player Classic, etc.). Two did not but played with my CoreAVC equipped dual core Athlon. That tells me two of the channels are MPEG2, not MPEG4.


???


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## Joe Clark (Jan 10, 2006)

kbdrand said:


> How are you recording those programs and playing them back? I thought if you used a Echostar DVR you couldn't export to a PC?


You can't export content captured to a Dish DVR hard drive out to a computer (at least not any way I've used). You can, however, use a specially modified Dish 211/411/622 to capture Dish Network programming directly to a computer. It's perfectly legal and easy.

Here's a link to DBSTalk's sister site, the AVS Forum, where you can read all about it:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=449402&page=1&pp=30

Here's the link to the company that does the modification of the 211/411/622:

http://www.nextcomwireless.com/r5000/products.htm

They are a great company and very responsive to users. I've been using their mod for a couple of years or so, first on a Dish 6000 and now on a 211. You need something to play back the files, either software or hardware. I use the MyHD capture card, although it won't play back MPEG4 files from the new MPEG4 channels. I use CoreAVC for that, although I'm still working out the bugs for that solution. It takes a beefy computer to play back H.264 files (or one of the newer ATI or nVidia cards).


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## kbdrand (Apr 16, 2006)

Joe Clark said:


> You can't export content captured to a Dish DVR hard drive out to a computer (at least not any way I've used). You can, however, use a specially modified Dish 211/411/622 to capture Dish Network programming directly to a computer. It's perfectly legal and easy.
> 
> Here's a link to DBSTalk's sister site, the AVS Forum, where you can read all about it:
> 
> ...


Thanks. This is exactly the kind of information I was looking for before, but I was told it was forbidden to discuss it on these boards.


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## JohnL (Apr 1, 2002)

BFG said:


> Joe is correct.
> 
> NFL HD and Starz Hd are real MPEG4 or H264 channels, HGTV and NGC are MPEG2 only available to vip receivers, like many other receivers.
> 
> His question of why 2 are mpeg2 and 2 are mpeg4 is a very good and puzzling question.


I think the reason that HGTV and NGC are uplinked in MPEG2, is both are in freepreview mode so Dish can encourage subscribers of the old HD package as well as those that have a lessor HD Metal Package to upgrade their HD subscription.

John


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## dave1234 (Oct 9, 2005)

Joe Clark said:


> You can't export content captured to a Dish DVR hard drive out to a computer (at least not any way I've used). You can, however, use a specially modified Dish 211/411/622 to capture Dish Network programming directly to a computer. It's perfectly legal and easy.


It all depends. I'm sure it violates Dish's contract with the content providers. If Dish doesn't cut off this use of their receivers the content providers could seek compensation from Dish. I would be reluctant spending money to have this mod. done. I'm sure Dish will work on disabling this ability in the future


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

JohnL said:


> I think the reason that HGTV and NGC are uplinked in MPEG2, is both are in freepreview mode so Dish can encourage subscribers of the old HD package as well as those that have a lessor HD Metal Package to upgrade their HD subscription.
> 
> John


Good try, but nope. These channels are still only available to people with ViP receivers. Us "legacy" folks aren't getting the free preview of the new channels.


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## Joe Clark (Jan 10, 2006)

dave1234 said:


> It all depends. I'm sure it violates Dish's contract with the content providers. If Dish doesn't cut off this use of their receivers the content providers could seek compensation from Dish. I would be reluctant spending money to have this mod. done. I'm sure Dish will work on disabling this ability in the future


That may happen, but Dish doesn't do the mod. It was available on the previous generation of Dish receivers, too. I had a 6000 that was modded. DirecTV and cable company boxes can be modified in the same way. Check out the thread I linked to. One day it probalby will be eliminated, one way or another, but as of now it looks like it will be with us for several years to come. These new Dish receivers just came out. I'm enjoying it while I can.

Again, this is a perfectly legal modification. It's not an illegal hack. Talking about those is forbidden here.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

HDMe said:


> Good try, but nope. These channels are still only available to people with ViP receivers. Us "legacy" folks aren't getting the free preview of the new channels.


It does let the Bronze and Silver people see the Preview. Not Just for NGC, but for a couple of the movie channels, after I added it all up, it was easier to just setup to Platinum, as it was more Bang for the dollar


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## hokieengineer (Jul 31, 2004)

dave1234 said:


> It all depends. I'm sure it violates Dish's contract with the content providers. If Dish doesn't cut off this use of their receivers the content providers could seek compensation from Dish. I would be reluctant spending money to have this mod. done. I'm sure Dish will work on disabling this ability in the future


The mod extracts the digital audio and video signal AFTER the receiver processes the channel authorization, so only channels the subscriber is subbed to can be recorded. There is no way dish will be able to "disable" this aftermarket modification as all it does is tap the data lines within the receiver.

If you own your own equipment, there is no problem. If you lease, I wouldn't recommend doing this .


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