# Long time DirecTV customer moving to FiOS and TiVo



## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

We have been DirecTV customers for over 12 years, having switched from Dish Network in late 2001. At that time, we made the switch specifically to have access to the DirecTiVo. We had been using the original Dishplayer DVR (the one with one tuner and Microsoft's DVR software based on their WebTV UI) and finally got tired of the bugs and single tuner. We loved the TiVos (Series 1 units then) and eventually owned 5 Series 2 DirecTiVos, expanded the disk space on all of them, hacked them to enable MRV and TiVoWeb Plus. But then came HD. The HD DirecTiVos didn't last very long (lucky for us - we missed owning one) and we eventually migrated to the HR-20. We've been using DirecTV DVRs ever since, finally reaching a Genie (HR-34), 2 HR-24s and 2 HR-21s.

So, it was with some trepidation and careful thought that we recently decided to look at going back to TiVo and switching to FiOS TV (we are already FiOS internet and phone customers). After months of deliberation we finally decided to move ahead last month. We got two TiVo Roamio Pro DVRs and 5 Minis (the Tivo Mini is roughly equivalent to the DIrecTV Genie clients like the C-41). The specs for the Roamios are quite impressive:

6 tuners on the Plus and Pro, 4 tuners on the base Roamio
500GB disk on the base Roamio, 1TB on the Plus, 3TB on the Pro
Built-in TiVo Stream (equivalent of the GenieGo)
RF remote standard (with a back-lit, slide out QWERTY keyboard, remote available as an add-on)
Bulit-in Web apps for Netflix, Hulu Plus, You Tube, Spotify, Pandora and more.
Having now had both DirecTV and FiOS side by side for some time, our conclusion is that HD picture quality is nearly identical. Any differences at all are so small as to be imperceptible in normal viewing. In the area of SD picture quality, Verizon is superior by a large margin. The available HD channels are a wash, with the lineups being nearly identical and just a few extra HD channels on one and few others on the other. So, content wise, there is no downside to Verizon FiOS.

The Verizon DVRs (made by Motorola) are, however, atrocious. The UI is confusing, cumbersome and buggy. They are currently rolling out a 6 tuner model (the VMS1100) but it has the same lousy UI. So, if we were going to make the switch, it had to be with TiVo equipment.

Unpacking the TiVo Roamios, the first thing you notice is that they are smaller and lighter than most DirecTV DVRs. They are about the same size and weight as the HR-44, but with an internal power supply. The RF remote is the classic TiVo peanut shape, but is a bit shorter and heavier than the old Series 2 remotes. The are not heavy - the weight feels good in your hand. Starting up the TiVos takes you to guided setup, which asks for network connection details (the Roamios support Ethernet, MOCA and wireless connections) and then downloads the current software. Being designed for digital cable, the TiVos require a CableCard to decrypt the digital video channels. Verizon charges $4.98 per month for each cablecard, but that is our only monthly equipment fee (for 7 TVs). Slipping the card into the back of the TiVo launches the CableCard configuration screens at which point you call you cable company to activate and pair the cards with your TiVos. This is where the process gets sticky - some cable companies make getting and activating a CableCard very difficult, but lucky for us, Verizon is pretty easy to deal with in this respect. The installer that came to connect the coax to the ONT brought the cards and we were up and running within 30 minutes.

Everyday operation of the system is quite good. The Minis provide the exact same interface as the DVRs themselves. Like DirecTV's Genie system, clients are associated with a DVR, but you can have multiple Roamios on the same network. In our setup we have 3 Minis attached to one DVR (for the adults) and 2 attached to the other DVR (for the kids). Unlike DirecTV, there is no unified playlist...to play a recording from a remote DVR you select the remote DVR from the local playlist and you are then presented with the remote playlist. This is both a plus and a minus. On the plus side, it allows you to segregate playlists by user(s), but it requires an extra step or more to browse multiple DVRs. The Netflix and Hulu apps are identical to what you'd see on a RoKu or similar device. The performance of the web apps is better than any of our Rokus (except perhaps our Roku 3) and the apps on our BD player. The Minis are also quite fast, but not quite as fast as using the DVR locally. They don't use RVU (I assume, since they don't have a "boxless" option), and they don't support wireless (although several users have reported that they work fine through an external wireless bridge). The supported network topologies are Ethernet or MOCA. BTW, the Roamios can function as a MOCA/Ethernet bridge.

Overall, the TiVos are faster, more reliable and just generally more enjoyable than the DirecTV DVRs. That we can have the same channels, at the same or better quality, with better, faster DVRs, with integrated OTT apps, all for half the price we were paying, has made the decision a no brainer. As soon as we have watched all of our recordings, we'll be cancelling DirecTV and shipping most everything back (except the one HR24-500 that we own).

The real bonus for us is the monthly cost savings. We have been paying FiOS about $85/month for 75/35 Internet and voice service, while paying DirecTV over $200/month for the Premiere package, HD, DVR and Whole Home fees, plus 7 outlets. We will now be paying FiOS $145/month for everything, including the CableCards - a savings of over $140/month. While there was a sizable cash outlay to purchase the TiVo equipment with lifetime service, at $140 per month, it won't take very long to earn it all back in savings (less than 18 months) and then that $140 goes into our pockets every month.

This is, I believe, part of the goal of the AT&T acquisition of DirecTV. The ability to offer a bundle can make a huge difference in competiveness. If AT&T can offer ALL of the customers in their service areas a bundle of internet, phone and TV (and TV that doesn't limit you to 3 or 4 simultaneous channels, and doesn't consume a big chunk of your internet bandwidth) for a price similar to the competition then that will be good for both AT&T and DirecTV.

Added on 6/13/14 at 10:55 am...
NOTE: This thread devolved into pointless arguments after page 5 or 6, so there is little reason to read any further that that.


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## wilbur_the_goose (Aug 16, 2006)

I've been getting closer and closer to the same decision. I've had a base FIOS TV package for about 6 months now (pretty cheap when bundled). The STB is horrible, but TiVo is certainly attractive.

If D* is messed up by AT&T, I'll be gone in a flash.


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## bpratt (Nov 24, 2005)

Diane

I'll be sad to see you go because I have enjoyed reading your posts over the last few years. I purchased an HR44-500 from Weaknees about a year ago and have been looking at the Tivo Roamios since. In my area, my only cable choice is Comcast which would cost me about $20 per month more that what I am currently paying DirecTV if I also included two Roamios. Comcast does offer a bundle which includes phone, internet and TV and I could get a deal for a year, but after that the price I pay would be greater than what I now have. But with the recent serious software problems DirecTV is having with their Genie, and the probability that their software programmers will never get it right, I think I will switch to Comcast and Tivo when my current 2 year contract ends with them. 

See you soon on the Tivo Roamio forum.


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## pappasbike (Sep 19, 2006)

I think the constant software problems are making everyone take a look at alternatives. Most people including myself are paying quite a lot for these services so these issues are quite troubling. I already have Comcast for phone and Internet so getting the tv service would probably get me a fair break for a while anyway. I'd like DTV to admit their issues, like the new auto delete "feature" and start handing out credits.


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## AMike (Nov 21, 2005)

I have been doing dual subscription for the past couple of years with D* and Comcast. I have been using Tivo Premiers and just added a Roamio to my set up on the Comcast side. As I have mentioned in another thread, the PQ via Comcast at times has exceeded the D* PQ. When I first got Comcast, the difference was in favor of D*.

I am getting a great double play deal from Comcast as I have Ooma for my home telephone. My internet speed was just upgraded at no extra cost to 100 down/20 up which has been insanely fast.

As for the Roamio itself, I have to say in my opinion it is the best DVR out there or at least the best one I've used. I too had the original standalone series 1 Tivo as well as the first iterations of the DirecTV/Tivo units. I have always preferred the Tivo over the D* units and wished DirecTV/Tivo units supported whole home. 

The response time is lightning fast and is quite easy to navigate. The integration of Netflix, Hulu Plus and Comcast on Demand is a great combination without having to use other devices like Apple TV or a Roku.

I am still waiting on some of the programming decisions to be determined, namely the SEC Network. If I had to choose between the 2, the Tivo makes Comcast a compelling choice. But the drawback with Comcast is their horrific customer service.


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## bidger (Nov 19, 2005)

I considered the Roamio, but for my setup it would have had to include a TiVo Mini with the subscription that entails, so for the same price as the MSRP of the Roamio basic I went with the Ceton 6 tuner ethernet device, finished upgrading a W7 Ult 64 bit machine with a Core i-7 CPU, 8 GB of RAM, a dedicated terabyte drive to record to, and everything on a Gigabit network. Since I already had an Xbox 360, the media extender capabilities were in place. I wish I had Verizon FIOS so that I would not have to deal with the tuning adapter, but far be it from Verizon to actually compete in my area with decent Internet, 1.5 Mbps down in my area, or offer TV. IOW, to actually compete with TWC. Glad you're happy though Diana. It seems that a lot of the long-timers here have found out that cable is actually competitive to satellite.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

Yep I'm most likely going to follow your footsteps this summer, Our local Blue Ridge Cable is going to start offering and supporting Tivo service. 
I'll be giving them a try myself.

Sent from my Galaxy S5


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## PK6301 (May 16, 2012)

While I applaud those who seek to find better alternatives and morn to see them go I am struck by the reality that Verizon has stated that in my area FIOS will not be installed within the foreseeable future. ( in others words NEVER ). But that is OK, They lost a customer for life, No phone, Internet,Mobile Phone.. Their lose.. :grin:


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

After 13 years, I've left DirecTV, at least until the fall season. My mom and son both switched from FiOS to Cablevision and their "cloud DVR", and I was impressed enough with what I saw to want to play with it for a few months.  My son switched because he moved and FiOS wasn't available in his new building. My mom switched because she ran out of incentives and her FiOS TV bill skyrocketed. She's saving about $80/month for 2 years with Cablevision's triple play vs FiOS, along with $175 in gift cards.

My daughter and family are happy FiOS users. So are my two sisters. I'm a huge fan of what TiVo's done with Roamio, but I have to respectfully disagree with Diana and Wilbur re: the FiOS box UI. I've used it a lot and think it's fine. Just my .02, but I don't think you can go wrong either way, Roamio or FiOS boxes. I haven't seen how FiOS presents their new VMS-1100 6-tuner box. My guess is it's the same UI, but I don't know for sure.

Cablevision offered me great pricing with no ETF, so I'm free to return to DIRECTV at any time. In a nutshell, I get about 90-100 hours of HD cloud storage, 15 recording tuners and management of my TDL and play list from my iPad, iPhone and PC. I can also stream any live TV channel to my iPad or iPhone at home, so while we're watching a show on our 65" display, I can keep an eye on the Rangers or Yankees on my iPad. Very handy. Cablevision also offers a great library of On Demand content. Everything from the major networks is available the next day in HD, usually going back 6-8 weeks. As a bonus, I'm saving about $40/month over what I was paying for DIRECTV, internet and phone, and I'm enjoying 50/25 vs. 15/5 internet, along with HBO and SHO, neither of which I had before. Pricing is guaranteed for 2 years.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

I'm so jealous of you that have a good cable offering in your area. Here it is D*, E* or Mediacom and Mediacom is horrid. Poor equipment (all refurbs), poor HD channel selections in comparison and I think the VOD is still all SD. Their only saving grace is that in a bundle for a year, they are much cheaper.


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

A couple of comments regarding points made by others above...

I'm not going to say that TiVos are bug free - just a quick read of the posts on TivoCommunity will show that. But most of the issues are around CableCard activation and pairing, and Tuning Adapters. There are a few reports of the Roamios spontaneously rebooting, but these are still relatively few. There was also a big issue a month or so ago where TiVo accidentally downgraded a number of units that had been upgraded to the Spring release. While not exactly a bug in the DVR software, it totally messed up the effected DVRs for days.

The cost of buying Tivo equipment (assuming your cable company doesn't offer them) can be significant. The base Roamio is $199 (also the only Roamio that can receive an OTA signal - the rest are cable only), the Plus is $399 and the Pro is $599. To that you add service fees - $14.99/month for the first DVR or $499 for lifetime, $12.99/month or $399 for lifetime for each additional DVR. However, there are discount codes that are pretty easy to acquire that will save you a LOT of money. Personally, we paid $699 for each Roamio Pro and $174 for each Mini, all with lifetime service. which saved us about $1,000 off the list price.

I'm not sure that we would have done this if Cablevision were the only option available. I have bad memories of being a Cablevision TV customer back in the early 90's and I wasn't impressed with their cable modem service 10 years ago (we were one of the first towns in NJ wired for FiOS, so we've been FiOS internet users since 2007).

One of the factors that helped drive this decision was Hurricane Sandy. When most of New Jersey was without power for days, Cablevision went dead, but FiOS stayed up. Each time we fired up the generator (we trying to conserve fuel, since all the gas stations were closed) as soon as I powered up the ONT we had phone and internet service. We have since installed a whole house generator that runs on natural gas, so next time the power goes out, we'll still have power and be connected, both to the internet and TV newscasts - and no more rainfade. 

Verizon has stopped expanding FiOS, but that is really because they overbuilt, or at least built too quickly. When the stopped the build-out they were passing 18 million homes, but only 5 million of those were subscribers. They will need to grow market share in the current footprint before they expand more. In the meantime, they are adding features and capabilities to FiOS and focusing their expansion efforts on wireless. Google Fiber has learned form this mistake, and are installing fiber FAR more slowly than Verizon did. I an optimistic that they will start expanding FiOS again, but perhaps not for another 5 years.

Switching to FiOS for TV only makes economic sense if you buy TiVos. If we had gone with Verizon's DVRs and/or the VMS1100 and IP Clients the cost difference would have been only $20/month or so. While some may find the Motorola DVR UI okay, the only good thing I can say about it is that it is quick.  Speaking of speed, a lot of people at TiVoCommunity complain that the Roamios are slow - everything is relative.

Finally, I'm not leaving DBSTalk. I'll be around - after all, even FiOS is based on a Digital Bit Stream.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

I've heard from others that Cablevision service in New Jersey is sub par vs. what I'm seeing here in Westchester County, NY. I've had Cablevision internet for the past two years, and it's been rock solid. Before that, I had FiOS internet, and it was rock solid as well. I was told by the Cablevision sales folks that my neighborhood has fiber to the pole, so that may be the reason. When I had 15/5, I routinely saw 20/5 on speed tests. My 50/25 service looks like this right now:


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

lparsons21 said:


> I'm so jealous of you that have a good cable offering in your area. Here it is D*, E* or Mediacom and Mediacom is horrid. Poor equipment (all refurbs), poor HD channel selections in comparison and I think the VOD is still all SD. Their only saving grace is that in a bundle for a year, they are much cheaper.


Yes, we are very lucky...we have Cablevision's Optimum, Verizon Fios, DirecTV and Dish Network (although Dish is pretty dead in the NY area because of the regional sports issue) available to us.


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## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

Here just north of Dallas I have four options - Time Warner cable, ATT Uverse, Dish or DirecTV. No FIOS. And no sign of any FIOS expansion into my area.
So:
TWC. Everything that's bad about cable. Variable PQ. Poor DVRs. Terrible customer service.
ATT UVerse. Where my house is, limited to three HD streams. Indifferent PQ on HD. Poor DVRs. Erratic service. I have Uverse Internet and am always having speed problems, and good luck to those of us who have to navigate ATT service. How a company can have such poor web site implementations is beyond me.
So that leaves Dish and DirecTV.

If FIOS was available I would be very unhappy with the start-up costs if I went TiVo (and one of my colleagues in a neighboring city has FIOS, and the DVR is very poor, so it would have to be TiVo.)
As I understand it, there is proposed legislation to remove the requirement for cable companies to support third party boxes so the days of TiVo on FIOS might be numbered.


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

texasbrit said:


> ...As I understand it, there is proposed legislation to remove the requirement for cable companies to support third party boxes so the days of TiVo on FIOS might be numbered.


The courts have ruled that the FCC did not have the authority to mandate CableCards, so that rule is effectively already dead. However, practically every DVR and STB provided by every cable company (including FiOS, but not including UVerse) has a CableCard inside it. While Verizon has been talking about moving to IP based delivery (like UVerse, but with something like 100 times the bandwidth) they now have millions of CableCard/QAM based set top boxes out there. Unlike most cable companies they deliver the guide data and VOD via IP, instead of using OOB channels or switched video. Theoretically, Verizon could switch to IP delivery, but that would, at a minimum, require a complete rewrite of their STB software if not a STB replacement.

The FCC is drafting new rules that conform to the courts' guidance, but are now looking at software based solutions that would also work for IP delivery. This can take a year or two to shake out. In the meantime, I suspect that it will be the status quo (no cable company is going to off and do something that might run afoul of pending regulations).

I don't doubt it will happen eventually, but I'm confident that it won't be before we have both made back our initial investment and pocketed the $140/month for many months. At that time, we'll review our options.


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## bwaldron (Oct 24, 2005)

wilbur_the_goose said:


> I've been getting closer and closer to the same decision.


I am as well, after 17 years with DirecTV.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Diana C said:


> I don't doubt it will happen eventually, but I'm confident that it won't be before we have both made back our initial investment and pocketed the $140/month for many months. At that time, we'll review our options.


You'll likely review your options in 24 months anyway, when the promotional credits expire. They extended a few of them for my mom during her third year, but none after that. Her bill went up around $100 more than the initial rate. We called retention before she switched, but the best they could do is to extend a $20 "good customer" credit.

Good news is at that time, you can likely switch to Cablevision for a comparable 2-year promotional price and continue to use your TiVo boxes. A friend of mine here in Westchester just went Roamio/Cablevision and is very happy with it. Or if you decide to go back to DIRECTV, you'll get a good resale price for your TiVo equipment with lifetime service.

If I stick with Cablevision and don't return to DIRECTV, I'll be losing about $95/month in credits after 2 years, so I'll have to make a similar decision.

I actually had a FiOS triple play alongside my DIRECTV service a couple of years ago, to take advantage of the phone/internet piece. Pricing for all 3 was less than I was paying for internet and phone alone. Since I already have an ONT in my basement, I'm constantly receiving "returning customer" offers from them. I think the latest was a $59 triple play with a 2-year commitment.


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

Steve said:


> You'll likely review your options in 24 months anyway, when the promotional credits expire. They extended a few of them for my mom during her third year, but none after that. Her bill went up around $100 more than the initial rate. We called retention before she switched, but the best they could do is to extend a $20 "good customer" credit.
> 
> Good news is at that time, you can likely switch to Cablevision for a comparable 2-year promotional price and continue to use your TiVo boxes. A friend of mine here in Westchester just went Roamio/Cablevision and is very happy with it. Or if you decide to go back to DIRECTV, you'll get a good resale price for your TiVo equipment with lifetime service.
> 
> ...


Yes, I have a potential switch to Cablevision (although I'd have to hold my nose when I call them) as my 2 year plan. But I've had very good success with Verizon so far in getting credits extended or replaced. I've had FiOS since 2007 and I don't think I've ever been without discounts on my account.

I figure that worse case, I'll go back to DirecTV (with all the new customer discounts) and either sell the TiVos (with lifetime, I'll practically be able to recoup all I paid for them) or hang onto them and switch again in 2 years. One of the great things is that SWiM/DECA has made the whole cable plant in my house compatible with either provider (I'm hanging onto to my SWiM 16). The only difference is that the coax signal starts in the basement for FiOS and in the attic for DirecTV.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Diana C said:


> I figure that worse case, I'll go back to DirecTV (*with all the new customer discounts*)


My thinking as well, if I'm disenchanted with Cablevision come the fall season. So far, so good though. Trickplay's a little "trickier" due to latency issues, but I'm already used to it, and everything else is working great. Knock on wood!


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## dcowboy7 (May 23, 2008)

With the ultimate package epix, showtime, cinemax, redzone channel are included but here in northern NJ (not sure where in NJ you are) they also throw in hbo & starz which is cool.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

If I ever did leave DirecTV, I do think I'd have to go with a similar solution and go to the Roamio. I'd probably go with the local version of FIOS, FiOptics and I think they support CableCard.

Glad to hear you'll stop by on occasion.


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## 242424 (Mar 22, 2012)

I would kill FatBob for FIOS


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

dcowboy7 said:


> With the ultimate package epix, showtime, cinemax, redzone channel are included but here in northern NJ (not sure where in NJ you are) they also throw in hbo & starz which is cool.


I'm in northeastern Bergen County and the Ultimate package includes HBO and Cinemax. These are also the only copy protected channels on FiOS and so are the only ones that require the CableCard to be paired with the DVR. It also means that you can't download HBO content to TiVoDesktop, or download to a mobile device, or transfer them from one DVR to another. You can, however, stream it to a PC or iPad, and watch it from a different TiVo than where it is recorded.


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## volkl (Jun 17, 2007)

Diana,

I always enjoy reading your thoughtful posts.

You are making a good decision.

I too will switch once they install Google Fiber in my neiborhood (next 4-6 months). I wish that a Roamio would work with Google TV. I will be losing Genie Go and HBO Go capabilities. Plus, I expect a bumpy ride w/ a brand new entrant to the pay tv business.

Good Luck and don't be a stranger.

-Volkl


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## PCampbell (Nov 18, 2006)

If I leave Directv I will go to OTA only.


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## dcowboy7 (May 23, 2008)

I cant OTA -- i need my sports -- OTA sux big time in that area.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

Had a question, I I bought a Roamio, and a Roamio Plus with 2 minis they can all interact correct? 
Like a Directv Genie and HRS? 


Sent from my Galaxy S5


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

damondlt said:


> Had a question, I I bought a Roamio, and a Roamio Plus with 2 minis they can all interact correct?
> Like a Directv Genie and HRS?


Yes, the Roamio line is pretty much identical to the Genie (with the "program guide" tuner available to the user and the option of a 3TB drive out of the box). The Minis are pretty much the same as the DirecTV Cxx clients. All of them can interact with each other...the DVRs can interact with each other and the Minis can access all DVRs on the LAN. In fact, Roamios and Minis can also interact with the older TiVo Premieres.

Note: The base Roamio can receive OTA or digital cable, but not both at the same time. The Plus and Pro are digital cable only.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

Diana C said:


> Yes, the Roamio line is pretty much identical to the Genie (with the "program guide" tuner available to the user and the option of a 3TB drive out of the box). The Minis are pretty much the same as the DirecTV Cxx clients. All of them can interact with each other...the DVRs can interact with each other and the Minis can access all DVRs on the LAN. In fact, Roamios and Minis can also interact with the older TiVo Premieres.


Okay thanks.
So the minis will use any available tuner, not just one from a single designated Roamio?

Reason I'm asking, is I want to buy a 4 tuner Roamio and the 6 Tuner Plus, with 2 minis.
Just want to make sure they all work together.
I already got the prices.
And the monthly fees are going to be 14.99,12.99,5.99,5.99, plus 11.90 for 2 cable cards
$52 per month.
Basically same price per month as directv, except, cables base package is slightly cheaper and includes HD. Plus I can bundle my internet for a 30 dollar savings.
That's not including my first year's discounts either. 
But I got to put out $600, but they will give me a big commercial discount if I give them my businesses. 
Lots to think about.

Sent from my Galaxy S5


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

No, Minis are associated with a particular DVR and will pull a tuner only from their assigned DVR. They can access recorded content from any DVR.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

Diana C said:


> No, Minis are associated with a particular DVR and will pull a tuner only from their assigned DVR. They can access recorded content from any DVR.


Okay that's alright though. With 10-12 tuners , depending what I choose , that better than a stand alone Genie.

Sent from my Galaxy S5


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Good luck Diana.

My thoughts from several months ago: http://forums.solidsignal.com/showthread.php/5920-My-TiVo-Roamio-amp-Mini-Thoughts-amp-Observations

Also still with DirecTV.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

While TiVO is a great platform, I can't see myself wasting over $1500 dollars for equipment that would be obsolete in a few years. IN comparison, with DirecTV and some good "haggling" you can always have the latest and greatest for little or no cost.


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## ejbvt (Aug 14, 2011)

Diana C said:


> Yes, we are very lucky...we have Cablevision's Optimum, Verizon Fios, DirecTV and Dish Network (although Dish is pretty dead in the NY area because of the regional sports issue) available to us.


The irony of this is my parents have Dish and have My9 with the SuperStations pack. So, with Dish outside the Yankees area - and you're grandfathered into having the SuperStations, you get more Yankees games than other providers. I used to have it too a long time ago and liked the extra sports on the SS pack. My mom likes CW and that gives her 3 of them. They will never switch to D* without INSP so I don't even try anymore!


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

peds48 said:


> While TiVO is a great platform, I can't see myself wasting over $1500 dollars for equipment that would be obsolete in a few years. IN comparison, with DirecTV and some good "haggling" you can always have the latest and greatest for little or no cost.


Well, as part of this process, I added up what we had spent on our 2 HR-21s, 2 HR-24s, HR-34, 2 H25s, GenieGo and CCK. It added up to about $1500 which was just handed to DirecTV to get equipment they still own (talk about "wasted" money). We spent about $2,000 on the TiVo equipment which I now own, and can resell if I want to upgrade or switch to a provider that doesn't support TiVos. If you look at the resale value of the previous generation of TiVos versus their purchase price, units with lifetime service sell for between 75% and 90% of the original price. I figure that even if I can only recoup $1000, we'll be out of pocket no more than I am with DirecTV.


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

ejbvt said:


> The irony of this is my parents have Dish and have My9 with the SuperStations pack. So, with Dish outside the Yankees area - and you're grandfathered into having the SuperStations, you get more Yankees games than other providers. I used to have it too a long time ago and liked the extra sports on the SS pack. My mom likes CW and that gives her 3 of them. They will never switch to D* without INSP so I don't even try anymore!


Sure, if you are outside the NY DMA, but if you are a New Yorker and even a moderate sports fan, Dish is a non-starter. Dish has basically abandoned the NY market. I haven't seen a new Dish install in my area in years (not that I've seen many new DirecTV dishes, but there have been a lot more than new Dish Network dishes).


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

Sixto said:


> Good luck Diana.My thoughts from several months ago: http://forums.solidsignal.com/showthread.php/5920-My-TiVo-Roamio-amp-Mini-Thoughts-amp-ObservationsAlso still with DirecTV.


Thanks! It was your review that really got us thinking about making the switch. We'll be keeping our DirecTV subscription going for a while too...we want to watch some of the programs we have recorded before we send the receivers back.


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## TXD16 (Oct 30, 2008)

bwaldron said:


> I am as well, after 17 years with DirecTV.


I wonder if it's something in the water, as after nearly 16 years with DIRECTV, I am close to the same decision, just haven't yet decided among Dish, U-Verse, or Comcast, but am leaning pretty heavily toward Dish at this point (essentially the same programming/DVR functionality at roughly half the cost during the intro period).

I must add, too, that as a relatively long-time shareholder of DTV stock, it is somewhat distressing to read these types of threads as I tend to invest in the non-monopolistic companies that I have determined, as a very discriminating consumer, are good enough for me to use, as I did DTV. Once, for whatever reason, such a firm no longer merits my patronage, it rarely, if ever, merits a continued place in my investment portfolio.

And, too, I've never been a particular Mike White fan (he's a food guy, not a tech guy---it matters), although I will give him credit for finally seeing the writing on the wall and getting the AT&T deal done.

Then again, maybe I'm missing something obvious on both ends (although Wall Street consensus appears to be saying I'm not). It wouldn't be the first time.


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## Joe Tylman (Dec 13, 2012)

damondlt said:


> Okay thanks.
> So the minis will use any available tuner, not just one from a single designated Roamio?
> 
> Reason I'm asking, is I want to buy a 4 tuner Roamio and the 6 Tuner Plus, with 2 minis.
> ...


If you go TiVo do anything you can to not pay monthly and get the lifetime service. Yes it adds a larger up front cost but long term savings and resell value will more than make up for that. You're talking $1200 in TiVo fees for 2 years. With the lifetime fees you're looking at about $1100 for your setup. While that is a significant investment it's just that an investment so spend the money wisely. You can always just get lifetime on the TiVo units to start and then do the mini's later as they do not qualify for multi discounts anyways on the lifetime.


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

What Joe said! ^^^^^


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

peds48 said:


> with DirecTV and some good "haggling" you can always have the latest and greatest for little or no cost.


really? Then why do I still have Hr23 and HR34 on my account?

Sent from my Galaxy S5


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

damondlt said:


> really? Then why do I still have Hr23 and HR34 on my account?
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy S5


I give up. Why do you still have a HR23 and HR34 on your account?


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## coolman302003 (Jun 2, 2008)

I have four TV options available here in the south east. DirecTV is hands down the best of all of them. I'm an out of market and longtime Spurs fan so NBA TV and League Pass are huge deals for me. Sports overall is a HUGE driving factor for us. I have hands-on with D* and Dish for TV all the others I personally have not subscribed to but have viewed/used at friends/relatives/demo setups etc.

DirecTV -- excellent HD PQ, carries all the sports (including local) that I want, including NFL Sunday Ticket, NBA TV HD, NBA League Pass HD with dual teams HD feeds (I always have the Spurs home team announcers feed unless their on OTA in San Antonio [KENS or KMYS], or my local RSN). D* does an excellent job with the local market RSNs including when their are multiple games on at the same time since they carry all the overflow/alternates and in HD. Receiving all of your local RSNs in HD is important for an out of market fan as well, because when my team plays the local in market team if D* didn't offer the local RSN I would be SOL for that game due to blackout rules. Genie and HR2X platform have both worked excellent for us, and they are always adding new features. Their HD content available On Demand has continued to grow more and more every year. Overall the best provider for our needs.

Charter -- total non-starter since they don't offer NBA TV and NBA League Pass at all. They lack one local RSN in HD and they don't carry RSN SD or HD overflow/alternates when multiple games are on simultaneous. Add in their HD PQ sucks in my area. No whole home DVR available other then purchase a TiVo setup or HTPC with CableCARD tuner setup and WMC Extenders; either choice you lose two-way capability such as On Demand. CableCARDs are generally a nightmare to get paired and initialized correctly. Our market is one that hasn't been upgraded to 100% digital and their HD channel lineup is really lacking overall, so even if they do add more HD did I mention the picture quality sucks regardless? I really can't add anything positive about their TV service...

AT&T U-Verse -- limited to 4 total TV streams for the entire house, that's basically a non-starter right their for our household... They do offer our local RSNs, NBA TV and NBA League Pass all in HD, however their League Pass is different from D* since they receive it from inDEMAND, so they don't remap the RSNs with local ads like D* does. I believe they could do it like D* if they wanted to since they offer many RSNs nationwide (and in HD) that could be remapped, of course they would probably have to get the terms agreed upon with NBA/Turner Sports in addition. Plus you do not get dual teams HD feeds most of the time. Even if they did have a decent setup with LP their HD PQ is very sub-par for sports programming and content with fast motion. On the positive side I think they do a pretty good job with alt/overflow HD feeds when their are multiple games airing simultaneous. Nice HD channel lineup overall. Wouldn't be a bad choice for a backup/second provider to test the waters with and use on 1 or 2 TVs (of course keeping the D* setup still for primary viewing).

Dish - good HD PQ, carries NBA TV and NBA League Pass, they carry the local RSNs (and have Overflow/Alt feeds available) here but are only in HD for the live games [no full time HD RSNs nationwide], they do not carry all of the League Pass games in HD and you never get both teams feed in HD. They probably do a slightly poorer job then U-Verse on the League Pass setup since with U-Verse you do always get the game in HD (but not always dual feeds). I actually had Dish and was doubled up with D* for several years, I never used the Hopper DVR only the 722k and 211k models but I really liked the feature set and performance overall. Very few issues with either model. I still have the dish, lnb, and the owned receivers in a closet in case I decide to reactivate one day. :righton: While I was doubled up I always purchased sports subscriptions (League Pass & NFL ST) with D* since Dish is inferior and not to mention doesn't carry ST at all. Back when Dish offered more premiums (think 2009-10) in HD then D* we would subscribe to HBO/MAX/HD Platinum (now [email protected]) with Dish and SHO/Starz/HD Extra Pack with D*; that setup gave us the most HD premium channels but that is obviously no longer the case. Overall Dish is probably the distant second best choice available to us.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

damondlt said:


> really? Then why do I still have Hr23 and HR34 on my account?
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy S5


I guess you are not haggling good enough... didn't you have a tech in your house the other day?


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## wilbur_the_goose (Aug 16, 2006)

Dear DirecTV - PLEASE READ THIS THREAD. IT'S FULL OF VERY, VERY LONG TIME CUSTOMERS (me, since 1997) WHO ARE THINKING OF FIRING YOUR COMPANY!


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

wilbur_the_goose said:


> Dear DirecTV - PLEASE READ THIS THREAD. IT'S FULL OF VERY, VERY LONG TIME CUSTOMERS (me, since 1997) WHO ARE THINKING OF FIRING YOUR COMPANY!


Just speaking for myself, I didn't fire DIRECTV. I'm simply a die-hard tester who wanted to try something different for a while ("cloud DVR"). My switch required no up front $$$ and there's no ETF, so come the fall season, I might be back.


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

peds48 said:


> I guess you are not haggling good enough... didn't you have a tech in your house the other day?


You know, I have been a DirecTV customer since November 2001. For all of that time I have subscribed to whatever was the top programming package, have always had multiple DVRs (DirecTiVos until 2007, HRs after that), was an early adopter of the Genie and GenieGo, and participated in the CE program. Why should I have to "haggle" (more like lie, cajole, threaten and beg) to get a few discounts? Without any "haggling" Verizon is delivering the same programming to me as DirecTV for less than half the price. Even when all the new subscriber discounts expire in two years, Verizon will STILL be about $50/month less expensive than DirecTV.

I originally switched from cable to satellite in 1997 because my cable company (Cablevision) had such a poor offering of channels. I switched from Dish to DirecTV in 2001 to get better, more functional DVRs. For most of the last 12 years I have been happy with DirecTV - it had the best channel offerings, and better equipment and services than the competition.

But, for the last couple of years most of DirecTV's advantages have eroded. They no longer have a channel advantage - Dish and most of the larger cable systems are more or less equal (the only real "loss" for me is that Turner Classic Movies is in SD on FiOS, but SD is so much better on FiOS that I don't think I'll care). While the Genie was a great piece of hardware, TiVo, Verizon, Cablevision and others have caught up to or surpassed the Genie's feature set. It finally got to the point where I could no longer justify the DirecTV price premium.

I don't know what effect AT&T will have on DirecTV, but I don't expect that they will make much of a difference in the areas of programming and content. To remain competitive DirecTV has to take a close look at their cost structure. Perhaps a good place to start is to look at the sum of all the discounts they give people who call up to "haggle" and see if perhaps they just lowered their prices by that much, they might attract or retain more customers.

Just the reflections of long time, and generally happy, customer - but it appears I am not alone.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Diana C said:


> 1. Why should I have to "haggle" (more like lie, cajole, threaten and beg) to get a few discounts? Without any "haggling" Verizon is delivering the same programming to me as DirecTV for less than half the price
> 
> 2. Even when all the new subscriber discounts expire in two years, Verizon will STILL be about $50/month less expensive than DirecTV.


1. Sure Verizon is giving you some amazing discounts, for being a "new" customer (at least TV customer) this is called the honeymoon phase. and we all know what happens after that!

2. I can only hope that stays that way. but truth be told when you get there and post back

But my post (that you quote on on) was not about discounts. but rather hardware. now you are "stuck" with providing you one hardware if you want the Roamios upgraded to whatever is the latest and greatest 2 years down the road. with DirecTV on the other hand, I can have that without speeding a single penny if I know how to push the right buttons, and trust me, I know where the right buttons are!


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## Bill Broderick (Aug 25, 2006)

damondlt said:


> really? Then why do I still have Hr23 and HR34 on my account?
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy S5


Probably for the same reason you refused to apply the HR firmware updates to fix the auto-delete bug on Saturday. You'd rather have problems to fuel your righteous indignation and give you something to complain about, rather than make any effort whatsoever to resolve the issues that have you so pissed off all of the time.


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

peds48 said:


> 1. Sure Verizon is giving you some amazing discounts, for being a "new" customer (at least TV customer) this is called the honeymoon phase. and we all know what happens after that!
> 
> 2. I can only hope that stays that way. but truth be told when you get there and post back
> 
> But my post (that you quote on on) was not about discounts. but rather hardware. now you are "stuck" with providing you one hardware if you want the Roamios upgraded to whatever is the latest and greatest 2 years down the road. with DirecTV on the other hand, I can have that without speeding a single penny if I know how to push the right buttons, and trust me, I know where the right buttons are!


Good for you. In 12 years, I have not gotten a single piece of hardware for free. As I posted earlier, the DirecTV gear we have now cost us about $1500 (4 HR2x DVRs at $200 each, a HR34 at $299, 2 HR25s at $100 each, plus a GenieGo at $150) with no opportunity to recoup any of it. Forget about what I paid for the HR20, the RCA receiver and all the DirecTiVos I've had over the years.The TiVos cost me only $500 more than I spent for DirecTV gear, and I have an excellent prospect of being able to recoup at least $1000, leaving me $500 ahead of the DirecTV hardware.

And where does a 2 year timeline come from?? I've had my HR34 for 2 years, the HR24s for close to 4 years and the HR21s for about 6 years. The Roamio has been on the market for about a year, so I expect to use them for 5 years. By then, even if I trash the hardware at the end, I'll have saved about $3000 versus staying with DirecTV.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Bill Broderick said:


> Probably for the same reason you refused to apply the HR firmware updates to fix the auto-delete bug on Saturday. You'd rather have problems to fuel your righteous indignation and give you something to complain about, rather than make any effort whatsoever to resolve the issues that have you so pissed off all of the time.


+1


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Diana C said:


> Good for you. In 12 years, I have not gotten a single piece of hardware for free.


why not? have you not seen all the posts about folks getting Genies free of change? even free wireless minis for that matter. your old TiVOs is/was a different story as DirecTV at that time was a BYO equipment kind of deal


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Diana C said:


> And where does a 2 year timeline come from??


It comes from the life expectancy of an electronic gear before some better comes along


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## Bill Broderick (Aug 25, 2006)

Diana C said:


> Even when all the new subscriber discounts expire in two years, Verizon will STILL be about $50/month less expensive than DirecTV.


Isn't that part really a result of the fact that you will have your TV service bundled with your phone & Internet, which DirecTV doesn't currently have the opportunity to do? That's really a big part of where the AT&T deal makes sense for DirecTV. Unfortunately, for those us in the Northeast, any bundling that takes place with AT&T service will only allow for DSL Internet speeds (which is what I switched away from when I went to FiOS for Internet and phone).

I have a feeling that I will eventually be forced to switch away from DirecTV. My dish is mounted about 5 feet from the edge of my roof, which is required for LOS. Now that Mastec won't allow their installers to get off of their ladder, the next time that a Hurricane Sandy comes along or DirecTV introduces a new dish style required for the next generation of receivers, I may be out of luck. If that happens, FiOS would be my new home.


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## wilbur_the_goose (Aug 16, 2006)

Another example - I got an e-mail from Verizon telling me they were giving me all the HBO channels for free until the end of September. I didn't need to call and play CSR roulette. I'm VERY happy, and to me, it serves to show how D* has changed from the old days (they're not nearly as customer-focused as they used to be).

And, for what it's worth, the Stanley Cup game last night definitely had better PQ on Verizon than it did on D* (ISF-calibrated Panny 65" plasma)


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Were you doing side by side- well, back to back comparisons with the two feeds, or is this from memory?


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

Bill Broderick said:


> Isn't that part really a result of the fact that you will have your TV service bundled with your phone & Internet, which DirecTV doesn't currently have the opportunity to do? That's really a big part of where the AT&T deal makes sense for DirecTV. Unfortunately, for those us in the Northeast, any bundling that takes place with AT&T service will only allow for DSL Internet speeds (which is what I switched away from when I went to FiOS for Internet and phone)...


Absolutely, and that is exactly what I said at the end of the post that started this thread. I guess I'm really just observing that although Verizon has been offering a better price on TV service, by virtue of the bundling, for years, it has only been in the last 6 months that I have been willing to entertain leaving DirecTV. Part of it was the great reviews I've read about the FiOS and TiVo combination, and part of it was stopping to think about why I was staying with DirecTV in the first place. Satellite in general, and DirecTV in particular, has always had real technical and customer service advantages over cable - until recently. I don't see a big difference between them anymore. I readily acknowledge that we are lucky to have 4 options for multi-channel TV service and that competition probably improves the cable companies' performance. But, this is the world we live in, and we have to do what makes sense for us. Paying DirecTV $140 per month more than DirecTV for the next 2 years, and then $95 more thereafter (I miscalculated when I said $50) just doesn't make a whole lot of economic sense.


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

peds48 said:


> why not? have you not seen all the posts about folks getting Genies free of change? even free wireless minis for that matter. your old TiVOs is/was a different story as DirecTV at that time was a BYO equipment kind of deal


Yes, but I already had a Genie by then, and I wasn't willing to lie, threaten and cajole them into giving me what I want. Look at it this way - if DirecTV can give some people free Genies, why not everyone? Because they can't afford it. Well I can't afford them anymore. I reiterate my earlier point: DIrecTV is still priced like a premium service, when they are barely distinguishable from their competition. They need to reassess their pricing and consider reallocating the one-off discounts and freebies they hand out as lower prices for everyone.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Diana C said:


> Yes, but I already had a Genie by then, and I wasn't willing to lie, threaten and cajole them into giving me what I want. Look at it this way - if DirecTV can give some people free Genies, why not everyone? Because they can't afford it. Well I can't afford them anymore. I reiterate my earlier point: DIrecTV is still priced like a premium service, when they are barely distinguishable from their competition. They need to reassess their pricing and consider reallocating the one-off discounts and freebies they hand out as lower prices for everyone.


I truly wish you well. Fios is a decent service. For what I would want (lots of out of market sports), it is a step down for me but isn't for a lot of people. I recommend fios for friends who it fits for. (And, I have it in house, so I am aware of its pluses and minuses.)

However, if you have any delusions that their deals or their customer service is going to be better, you are wrong there. I've never had to argue with directv but have to all the time with fios. They offer something then can't deliver then just cut things off rather than make it work. They almost never match the actual projected price and have screwy bundles that taking services away actually increases your pricing. They have insisted I had to be home for on a tech once for a neighborhood problem. When the tech showed up he said the CS group had no idea what they were talking about.

Fios support is better than what I dealt with with Comcast but any belief that you won't be working the system (just to get what you want that is nothing special) is optimistic.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Diana C said:


> Yes, but I already had a Genie by then, and I wasn't willing to lie, threaten and cajole them into giving me what I want.


I know of many, many folks that called for a repair issue and got a fee Genie instead. so no need to lie, cajole or threaten. You just never tried.


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## Bill Broderick (Aug 25, 2006)

peds48 said:


> I know of many, many folks that called for a repair issue and got a fee Genie instead. so no need to lie, cajole or threaten. You just never tried.


But if there was nothing broken, wouldn't she have to lie in order to get a tech dispatched for the repair issue? I think that, to some extent, her point is valid. DirecTV customers who don't try to "play the game" typically get left behind with regard to equipment. I don't blame them for doing this. It would be a huge expense for them to consistently upgrade customers to the newest equipment all of the time.

Personally, I'd prefer it if they went out of their way to reward loyal long time customers better than they do (or did). When they used to have their annual "thank you" anniversary gift, it would never be something that was actually useful (or cost saving) to that customer. Someone like me, who never orders PPV, would get coupons for free PPV movies (which you had to send back to them, which, in itself, was a pain in the butt if you were on auto-pay), rather than doing something like giving an X number of months discount on a channel that you were already paying for.

IMO, DirecTV has set a bad precedent that the people who complain (or lie, threaten or cajole) are the ones who get treated the best. I think that some people who aren't complainers are getting a bit sick of that.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Bill Broderick said:


> But if there was nothing broken,


But that is the rub, there WAS a problem when they called in! but the CSR turned that SC into an upgrade. win-win for both parties, installer of course looses


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

Bill Broderick said:


> But if there was nothing broken, wouldn't she have to lie in order to get a tech dispatched for the repair issue? I think that, to some extent, her point is valid. DirecTV customers who don't try to "play the game" typically get left behind with regard to equipment. I don't blame them for doing this. It would be a huge expense for them to consistently upgrade customers to the newest equipment all of the time.
> 
> Personally, I'd prefer it if they went out of their way to reward loyal long time customers better than they do (or did). When they used to have their annual "thank you" anniversary gift, it would never be something that was actually useful (or cost saving) to that customer. Someone like me, who never orders PPV, would get coupons for free PPV movies (which you had to send back to them, which, in itself, was a pain in the butt if you were on auto-pay), rather than doing something like giving an X number of months discount on a channel that you were already paying for.
> 
> IMO, DirecTV has set a bad precedent that the people who complain (or lie, threaten or cajole) are the ones who get treated the best. I think that some people who aren't complainers are getting a bit sick of that.


Exactly, so before you attack me, I can't make Directv give me something to replace something thats not broken.
My point was Peds has it in his head if I call Directv they will swap out my HR23 for a Brand new HR24 and my HR34 for a Brand new HR44.
SO WAY BEYOND THE TRUTH!


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## Bill Broderick (Aug 25, 2006)

peds48 said:


> But that is the rub, there WAS a problem when they called in! but the CSR turned that SC into an upgrade. win-win for both parties, installer of course looses


I was referring to Diana not needing a service call and, therefore not having the opportunity to get hardware upgraded by a tech, unless she lied about having problems in order to create that service call.


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## Bill Broderick (Aug 25, 2006)

damondlt said:


> Exactly, so before you attack me, I can't make Directv give me something to replace something thats not broken.
> My point was Peds has it in his head if I call Directv they will swap out my HR23 for a Brand new HR24 and my HR34 for a Brand new HR44.
> SO WAY BEYOND THE TRUTH!


Except, unlike DIana, you have had service calls. According to you, you had one just a few days ago. Did you ask the tech if he could upgrade any equipment for you? When I had my HR44 and GenieGo installed (for a total of $49), I also had two HR21's upgraded to HR24's by the tech who made that service call. Like you, I had a valid reason for having a tech come to my house. Unlike you, I took the initiative to ask about upgrading equipment and that's exactly what happend.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

> Except, unlike DIana, you have had service calls. According to you, you had one just a few days ago. Did you ask the tech if he could upgrade any equipment for you? When I had my HR44 and GenieGo installed (for a total of $49), I also had two HR21's upgraded to HR24's by the tech who made that service call. Like you, I had a valid reason for having a tech come to my house. Unlike you, I took the initiative to ask about upgrading equipment and that's exactly what happend.


Its not up to the Tech to upgrade my HR34 to a 44 for the heck of it.
He was there to replace a defective HR24. Which he did!
You think I've never asked for an HR44??

Techs don't just swap out working equipment for upgrades at the customers request.
Not that common, there are commitment issues involved with non defective equipment swaps.

Stop filling peoples heads with how simple it is to just trade equipment for the latest technology.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

damondlt said:


> Its not up to the Tech to upgrade my HR34 to a 44 for the heck of it.


While he does not have to, he can replace your equipment. by asking nicely he could of hook you up!


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Bill Broderick said:


> I was referring to Diana not needing a service call and, therefore not having the opportunity to get hardware upgraded by a tech, unless she lied about having problems in order to create that service call.


Ahhh, gotcha. But you know, everyone needs a dish alignment every now and then


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

> While he does not have to, he can replace your equipment. by asking nicely he could of hook you up!


If it was that simple , Everyone here would Have Free HR44's and HR24s, and nothing else!


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## Bill Broderick (Aug 25, 2006)

peds48 said:


> Ahhh, gotcha. But you know, everyone needs a dish alignment every now and then


Yeah. But now, I wouldn't be able to get a tech to get off of his ladder and onto my roof to do that alignment :blackeye:


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## Bill Broderick (Aug 25, 2006)

damondlt said:


> If it was that simple , Everyone here would Have Free HR44's and HR24s, and nothing else!


Well, being a pleasant person can go a long way sometimes.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Bill Broderick said:


> Yeah. But now, I wouldn't be able to get a tech to get off of his ladder and onto my roof to do that alignment :blackeye:


some friends do get special treatment... :righton:


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

Like Bill, my dish is at a place where a ladder can't reach directly (the only place where there is an opening in the trees). I have never had a dish alignment problem (even after two tropical storms and hurricane Sandy). In 12 years, I have only had to call DirecTV twice for a technical issue (once when the hard drive of an HR21 went south - which they replaced with another HR21) and when they killed my last DirecTiVo with a software update that put it into an endless boot loop.

No matter how you shade it peds, you are saying the customer has to lie to the CSR to get a truck roll and the bribe the tech for an upgrade. That's a heck of a way to run a company.

Also, to be clear, I don't expect Verizon to be any different than DirecTV in this or any other regard. I have been a FiOS customer for 7 years, just not for TV. I have never had to call them for tech support. Every 2 years, when my discounts end, they offer some new set that has kept my phone and internet bill below what I was paying them for just voice back in 2006. If, two years from now they don't have an offering I find acceptable, I'll take my TiVos and go to Cablevision. Or, maybe I'll sell the TiVos and try Dish network again. Or, maybe I'll come back to DirecTV and get a load of discounts from them. But even if you took away ALL the Verizon discounts, the Verizon Ultimate package is still almost half the price of DirecTV's Premiere package plus all the fees. It is not just the programming cost that gets you with DirecTV, it is the HD fee, the DVR fee, the Whole Home fee, the HD Extra pack fee and the $6 per additional outlet fee - none of which I will have with Verizon and TiVos.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

Steve said:


> My daughter and family are happy FiOS users. So are my two sisters. I'm a huge fan of what TiVo's done with Roamio, but I have to respectfully disagree with Diana and Wilbur re: the FiOS box UI. I've used it a lot and think it's fine. Just my .02, but I don't think you can go wrong either way, Roamio or FiOS boxes. I haven't seen how FiOS presents their new VMS-1100 6-tuner box. My guess is it's the same UI, but I don't know for sure.


Just to give my two cents... It is the same UI, only a generation behind. Verizon needed to have a stable baseline when they wanted to get the VMS out the door, so they stuck with the generation that was on their other equipment at the time (they have since upgraded their other equipment to a newer guide, but the VMS will be close behind). The guide s/w is actually a different platform on the VMS- it's HTML 5, and appears to be partially cloud-based. And yeah, I've had one for a couple months now. Our market was among the first to have them available, and I ordered one up immediately.

As for whether the s/w is crap or not... that's up to each person. I personally like the guide. It has some short-comings, to be sure, but I certainly don't think it's horrid. And the VMS functionality is really nice. The integration between the server and IP boxes is pretty darn seamless. The platform certainly has its bugs, but they've been pretty aggressive at getting those bugs rectified (we just got our second update since the platform first became available).


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## TBlazer07 (Feb 5, 2009)

Why pay more for the Tivo? Fios just release the 6 or 12 tuner VMS system here in NJ. 

I switched about 18 months ago and REALLY miss the DirecTV DVR's (especially my HR34's X 2). Fios service is fine but the DVR's are just missing the "little stuff" the the DirecTV boxes had.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Diana C said:


> No matter how you shade it peds, you are saying the customer has to lie to the CSR to get a truck roll and the bribe the tech for an upgrade.


There is no need to lie. There is nothing wrong with requesting a service visit specially if your dish has not been touched in 12 years. and while the tech is there, you can ask him very nicely if he can do you a favor and replace your aging "insert receiver model number". and you as a thank you can buy him lunch, I am sure he will hook you up. there is no lie and bribe, just two "friends" helping each other out.

Think of this as an electrician that went to your house to fix something for you, but you ask him to change a worn out receptacle face plate.


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## Joe Tylman (Dec 13, 2012)

peds48 said:


> There is no need to lie. There is nothing wrong with requesting a service visit specially if your dish has not been touched in 12 years. and while the tech is there, you can ask him very nicely if he can do you a favor and replace your aging "insert receiver model number". and you as a thank you can buy him lunch, I am sure he will hook you up. there is no lie and bribe, just two "friends" helping each other out.
> 
> Think of this as an electrician that went to your house to fix something for you, but you ask him to change a worn out receptacle face plate.


Again you post the same solution of attempt to game the system and/or bribe a tech. The definition of bribe is " money or favor given or promised in order to influence the judgment or conduct of a person in a position of trust" so you can put all the quotes around words or add the winks and nudges which won't change the intent of the action which defines it.  You may choose to operate in this manner but some people may have a different view on this that goes against their morals/ethics/schema. Some technicians would also not do what you say they would do for a "tip" for the same reasons. For people who seem opposed to this thought process you continue to state the same thing over and over. I would just let it go. It does seem quite enigmatic that you say people who leave are doing something wrong but then say "Here's how you manipulate the system because it's dumb how they do it" while you collect a paycheck. I believe that you think you are helping and to someone who is trying to do what you're saying to do they would see it that way. It's clear from many posts in this thread that some people don't see it that way. In fact I would bet that it's having the opposite effect that you intend.

It's clear that Diana did her research, chose to make some changes based on what she wants. No one company is for everyone. She did her research looked at the best options for her and moved forward. At this point she has chosen that DIRECTV is not for her. In the future that could change and she could come back. Attempting to play point counterpoint at this stage is futile. She believes that DIRECTV is charging a premium but is no longer a premium service. I disagree with that but can understand it from her point of view. So, while I wish that Diana would stay a DIRECTV customer, she has chosen to move on I can only be glad she did so with the same level of sound logic and long term planning she has demonstrated with her other posts.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

Diana C said:


> Like Bill, my dish is at a place where a ladder can't reach directly (the only place where there is an opening in the trees). I have never had a dish alignment problem (even after two tropical storms and hurricane Sandy). In 12 years, I have only had to call DirecTV twice for a technical issue (once when the hard drive of an HR21 went south - which they replaced with another HR21) and when they killed my last DirecTiVo with a software update that put it into an endless boot loop.
> 
> No matter how you shade it peds, you are saying the customer has to lie to the CSR to get a truck roll and the bribe the tech for an upgrade. That's a heck of a way to run a company.
> 
> Also, to be clear, I don't expect Verizon to be any different than DirecTV in this or any other regard. I have been a FiOS customer for 7 years, just not for TV. I have never had to call them for tech support. Every 2 years, when my discounts end, they offer some new set that has kept my phone and internet bill below what I was paying them for just voice back in 2006. If, two years from now they don't have an offering I find acceptable, I'll take my TiVos and go to Cablevision. Or, maybe I'll sell the TiVos and try Dish network again. Or, maybe I'll come back to DirecTV and get a load of discounts from them. But even if you took away ALL the Verizon discounts, the Verizon Ultimate package is still almost half the price of DirecTV's Premiere package plus all the fees. It is not just the programming cost that gets you with DirecTV, it is the HD fee, the DVR fee, the Whole Home fee, the HD Extra pack fee and the $6 per additional outlet fee - none of which I will have with Verizon and TiVos.


Extremely well said.

Sent from my Galaxy S5


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

Peds let me ask you, aside from bribing the Tech.
If I wanted to buy a Brand new HR24 what would I pay?
One that I could own?
To lease one is $200 with a 2 year commitment. 
Tivo Roamio with 4 tuners is $200 to own.
$400 for a 6 Tuner box.
I already did the figures
Let's just say Directv isn't again as cheap as some imply.




Sent from my Galaxy S5


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## Bambler (May 31, 2006)

DirecTV, in my eyes and perception as a consumer, use to be cutting edge, in channel offerings, customer service, technology and PQ. They were always a bit more expensive than other services, at least that was my perception, but you get what you pay for. That's not the case anymore. 

Whatever lead they had a decade ago has all but dissapeared in my opinion. I'm not saying DirecTV went backwards, but they sure haven't moved forward with much haste, while others caught up. 

DirecTV seems content to take that lead they built up and milk us for everything we have. Great for short-term shateholder valuation, but not for long-term prospects. 

AT&T is buying a dinosaur in my opinion, that is either unwilling or unable to innovate or improve. 

DirecTV changed course. Like any big ship, that change in direction happened slowly in an almost undetectable manner, but whether you felt it or not they are not heading in the same direction when I was consumer more than ten years ago, that's for sure.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

Bill Broderick said:


> Well, being a pleasant person can go a long way sometimes.


Sure , but its not everyday one has a truck roll, And I'm not slipping a Tech $50 to give me a piece of leased equipment .


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Joe Tylman said:


> Again you post the same solution of attempt to game the system and/or bribe a tech. The definition of bribe is " money or favor given or promised in order to influence the judgment or conduct of a person in a position of trust" so you can put all the quotes around words or add the winks and nudges which won't change the intent of the action which defines it.  You may choose to operate in this manner but some people may have a different view on this that goes against their morals/ethics/schema. Some technicians would also not do what you say they would do for a "tip" for the same reasons. For people who seem opposed to this thought process you continue to state the same thing over and over. I would just let it go. It does seem quite enigmatic that you say people who leave are doing something wrong but then say "Here's how you manipulate the system because it's dumb how they do it" while you collect a paycheck. I believe that you think you are helping and to someone who is trying to do what you're saying to do they would see it that way. It's clear from many posts in this thread that some people don't see it that way. In fact I would bet that it's having the opposite effect that you intend.


I never said that leaving DirecTV wrong, so dont put words that I have never said. The whole debate is over hardware which seems like you miss the boat by coming a tad late to shine in.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

damondlt said:


> Peds let me ask you, aside from bribing the Tech.
> If I wanted to buy a Brand new HR24 what would I pay?
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy S5


It can be had free (maybe?) by calling the 1-800. only they can tell you.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

No it can't Try $450

Sent from my Galaxy S5


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

An HR24 $450.00?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

damondlt said:


> Sure , but its not everyday one has a truck roll, And I'm not slipping a Tech $50 to give me a piece of leased equipment .


being pleasant does not means $50.00

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

One quick note on some of the discussion of whether TiVo is a waste of money or not. I don't have TiVo because I really like VOD. Losing that would be a problem for me. Also, I don't mind Verizon's guide s/w - I think their s/w is more tailored to people who prefer to watch live TV than watch recorded content, although I think it does a pretty nice job of handling recorded content too. If you're a channel/guide surfer (like I am) then I think their s/w is actually better than TiVo's. if you're more on the side of recording everything you watch, and wanting the DVR do the work of finding stuff for you to watch, then it's clear that TiVo is much better. Really it comes down to personal preference. As to the cost (the point of the post), just realize one thing (for those who balk at the up-front cost), a TiVo with a lifetime membership will retain probably 80% of its value for years. If anyone doubts that, go onto eBay and take a look at what older TiVo models are going for on there. I think you'd be shocked. So, when you upgrade, you can trade in your old unit (sell it) and get most of your money back, to put to a new unit.

On top of that, TiVo has been known to run special deals for existing subscribers when forced to upgrade. That happened recently with Verizon customers. When Verizon started migrating channels to mpeg-4, folks with the older models were given a special deal to upgrade to the Roamio.

If it weren't for access to VOD, I would be a TiVo customer myself.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

jpl said:


> I don't have TiVo because I really like VOD. Losing that would be a problem for me.


Good point I hadn't thought of. I don't use on-demand often, but I'll sometimes want to see a show folks are talking about that I didn't think to record, and having the ability to see it after the fact is very handy. It happened just last week, with _Undateable_.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

Steve said:


> Good point I hadn't thought of. I don't use on-demand often, but I'll sometimes want to see a show folks are talking about that I didn't think to record, and having the ability to see it after the fact is very handy. It happened just last week, with _Undateable_.


Our cable company will have ON Demand with TIVO. 


Sent from my Galaxy S5


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

Bambler said:


> DirecTV, in my eyes and perception as a consumer, use to be cutting edge, in channel offerings, customer service, technology and PQ. They were always a bit more expensive than other services, at least that was my perception, but you get what you pay for. That's not the case anymore.
> 
> Whatever lead they had a decade ago has all but dissapeared in my opinion. I'm not saying DirecTV went backwards, but they sure haven't moved forward with much haste, while others caught up.
> 
> ...


On 3 June 14 AT&T filed a statement with the Securities and Exchange Commission saying they expect cost synergies to exceed $1.6 billion over the first three years following the completion of it's merger with DirecTV. Not bad for acquiring a dinosaur.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

> An HR24 $450.00?
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Call them, I already did.
D12 $150
H25 $250
HR24 $450
Genie Not for Sale
4 tuner 500GB Basic Tivo Roamio $169.99 at BestBuy right now.


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## anex80 (Jul 29, 2005)

I don't understand why a lot of people complain about D* charging a premium for their service. I just compiled all of the numbers for comparable packages and equipment across the 3 providers available in my area (D*, E*, and Suddenlink). D* is the highest but only by $2 over E*. Suddenlink is quite a bit cheaper than both but is missing several channels that are available on both SAT providers. I've outlined the detailed charges below for reference.

As for innovation, I've been very happy with the recent moves by D*. I think their IPad app is great (I've not used other provider's apps so I can't compare them). I've also noticed that D* is listed as a provider for several TV apps where many others are not. Plus the HR44 and Genie Go system is SUPERIOR to the Hopper IMO. 

To each their own, I suppose. TV packages differ widely from carrier to carrier so it really all comes down to who has what you want for the best price. I think it's unfair to classify D* as charging significantly more for the same service when most providers are relatively close in cost.

Cost comparison with no promotions or discounts
DirecTV
Ultimate = $82
HD Fee = $10
DVR Fee = $10
Whole Home Fee = $3
Addtl Outlet Fee = $6
Total: $111

Dish Network
Top 250 = $80
HD Fee = $10
DVR Fee = $12
Addtl Outlet Fee = $7
Total: $109

Suddenlink
SL200 = $55
Family Package = $8
Sports and Info Package = $8
DVR Fee = $15
Addtl Outlet Fee = $7
Total: $93


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

anex80 said:


> Cost comparison with no promotions or discounts
> DirecTV
> Ultimate = $82
> HD Fee = $10
> ...


Here let me show you my Cable company VS Directv including my home internet, since I need it regardless.

Directv

Premier $129.99
Advanced Receiver Fee $25 (Genie)
HR24 $6
HR23 $6
H25 $6
C31 $6
Protection Plan $7.99
HD Extra Pack $4.99
RSN Fee $3.36
15 MBPS Cable internet $67.95
6% sales Tax
*Total $279.08 per month*
Plus $400 in equipment upfront and under contract 
Grand total 24 months *$7098*
Blue Ridge cable with Tivo Receivers

Digital HD Basic+ $92.56
Tivo Roamio $14.99
Tivo Roamio $12.99
Tivo Mini $5.99
Tivo Mini $5.99
Outlet Charge $2.00
Additional outlet $.50
Cable Card $5.95
Cable Card $5.95
HBO, Max, Show, TMC,Starz,Encore $45.95
Internet 15 MBPS $52.95
6% sales tax
*Total $260.57 per month*
*Tivo Roamio $169*
*Tivo Roamio Plus $349*
*Tivo Mini $99*
*Tivo Mini $79 ( just quoted these prices 30 minutes ago right from Tivo sales line.*
*Total $738*
Cost over 2 Years Total *$6,992*
Sure, Minimal difference, But I can buy what I want and sell what I don't want and Upgrade.

I just about Have my mind made up.
Once my MLB EI is paid Up , I very well be making the switch.
Maybe I'll be back when I can Bundle my Phone with Att.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

damondlt said:


> Call them, I already did.
> D12 $150
> H25 $250
> HR24 $450
> ...


I can understand them not offering a genie considering their policy, but those other prices are nuts, if that's leased.

You can get a 44 from Solid Signal for $150 less than that HR24 price, or the 24 for $200.

I would check DirecTV's site, but it's currently offering me an HD DVR for free.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

dpeters11 said:


> I can understand them not offering a genie considering their policy, but those other prices are nuts, if that's leased.
> 
> You can get a 44 from Solid Signal for $150 less than that HR24 price, or the 24 for $200.
> 
> I would check DirecTV's site, but it's currently offering me an HD DVR for free.


Thats owned.
We were discussing resale, which leases are just throwing money in the garbage.
What Directv wants even for a Standard lease For HR 24 from solid signal you can Buy a 4 Tuner Roamio and sell it in 2 years for most likly at least $100.
Even if you paid $450 for Directv HR24, in 2 years you'll be lucky to get $250 out of it.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

dpeters11 said:


> I would check DirecTV's site, but it's currently offering me an HD DVR for free.


Yep , What DVR? And another 24 months.
No thanks don't need commitments on equipment thats not mine ever!


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

damondlt said:


> Yep , What DVR? And another 24 months.
> No thanks don't need commitments on equipment thats not mine ever!


Just standard luck of the draw HR2x. I'm not getting one, I'm satisfied with what I have and do want to keep options open whether it's the ability to get the next class of box, go to fioptics if they have a great deal that includes gigabit Internet that rolls out this fall etc.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

dpeters11 said:


> Just standard luck of the draw HR2x. I'm not getting one, I'm satisfied with what I have and do want to keep options open whether it's the ability to get the next class of box, go to fioptics if they have a great deal that includes gigabit Internet that rolls out this fall etc.


I got lucky, I got a 24 when I took the "free" offer.
But my sister got Hr21 LOL!


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

peds48 said:


> There is no need to lie. There is nothing wrong with requesting a service visit specially if your dish has not been touched in 12 years. and while the tech is there, you can ask him very nicely if he can do you a favor and replace your aging "insert receiver model number". and you as a thank you can buy him lunch, I am sure he will hook you up. there is no lie and bribe, just two "friends" helping each other out.
> 
> Think of this as an electrician that went to your house to fix something for you, but you ask him to change a worn out receptacle face plate.


Do you realize that what you say here is self-contradictory? You start by saying "There is no need to lie." And then talk about getting a truck roll and make a comparison to an electrician being in the house to "fix" something. *HOW DOES ONE GET DIRECTV TO SEND A TECHNICIAN TO "FIX" SOMETHING WHEN NOTHING IS BROKEN?*

Answer: you have to lie. You have to pretend you have a reception problem.

Further, you know when you start this charade that you are gaming the system. You are doing this to get something at a more favorable price than if you went through "official" channels. Perhaps you are proud of your ability to manipulate the system to get what you want, but in my opinion this exactly where DirecTV has gone wrong. But, if you look at the numbers, it seems to be working for DirecTV so there is little point to discuss this further. For me, the decision was simple:

*DirecTV*
Premier Programming: $129.99
6 additional outlet fees: $36
HD fee: $10
DVR fee: $10
Whole Home fee: $3
Regional Sports fee: $3.63

Total: $192.62 per month

*FiOS TV*
Ultimate HD Programming: $90.00
2 Multistream Cablecards: $9.98
No HD fee
No DVR fee
No Whole home fee
No regional sports fee

Total $99.98 per month *without factoring the first 2 year discounts of $45 per month*

Even if we ignore the cost of hardware and don't include discounts, FiOS saves us $92.64 per month for the same service and content.

Now, let's deal with hardware and discounts. I spent $2269.98 on TiVo equipment (all with lifetime service), but I am getting $45/month in discounts from Verizon for 24 months. That $1080 in savings. If I apply that to the TiVo hardware costs, the net cost is $1189.98. That is almost $300 LESS than I have paid DirecTV in equipment acquisition fees. What makes that worse, is that the money I paid DirecTV was a pure expense. The money I paid for the TiVos is an investment since I own and can resell the the equipment. In 2 years, should I want to sell it, I can reasonably expect to recoup at least $1600.

So, simply looking at this as a two year experiment:

Programming savings: $2,223.36 (not including discounts)
Plus discounts: + 1,080.00
Plus resale value of the TiVos: 1,600
Less hardware costs: - 2,269.98

Net savings: $2,633.38

So, even if at the end of 2 years I decide I liked DirecTV better, I can come back with an extra $2600 in my pocket. If I find I like FiOS TV just fine, then I pocket $1,100 per year in programming savings until I decide to upgrade my TiVos (at which point, I'm still way ahead since I would sell the old units, and am still saving over $1000 a year on programming). Maybe the fanboys don't like the results of this analysis, but the facts are not in dispute.

True, the TiVos can't access Verizon VOD. But they have Netflix and Hulu Plus apps built-in (we have subscriptions to both) and access to Amazon Instant Video for PPV. Plus, TiVo Suggestions are quite good. Someone earlier mentioned a series that that they heard about after the premiere which sounded interesting. Well I can't tell you how many time exactly the same thing happened back when we had TiVos through DirecTV, and 9 out of 10 times we found that premiere episode in our suggestions folder. And of course, FiOS doesn't have Sunday Ticket. But the only football fan in our house is a Jets fan, so NFLST is a non-factor for us.

So, in end, we decided we would be foolish not to do this.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

In the end, it's just TV and we all have to do what is best for us. It's subjective. I like having these new ways of getting service with IPTV, it was only cable and satellite for far too long, they are stirring the pot a bit in terms of the competition.

Diana finds Fios is where her needs are met, someone else finds DirecTV is that place. Both are right answers.


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

Absolutely. I probably should emphasize that I doubt I would be doing this if my only option was Cablevision. While Cablevision around here gets pretty good marks from users, the PQ is inferior to FiOS and DirecTV. I honestly have not even looked at Cablevision in any detail because of this. There is no way I'd do this if Time Warner were my only option.

Without a truly "apples to apples" alternative like FiOS, this would be a much harder decision.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Absolutely!!

If I could break myself from boxing and wanting to see so many contemporary shows I could switch to IPTV and save a bundle of money. But I won't...


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Diana C said:


> Absolutely. I probably should emphasize that I doubt I would be doing this if my only option was Cablevision. While Cablevision around here gets pretty good marks from users, *the PQ is inferior to FiOS and DirecTV*. I honestly have not even looked at Cablevision in any detail because of this. There is no way I'd do this if Time Warner were my only option.
> 
> Without a truly "apples to apples" alternative like FiOS, this would be a much harder decision.


Maybe it's the SA boxes. I have Samsung boxes and from 10' away, Cablevision HD PQ looks a little better on my 65" Panny ZT60 than the HR44 it replaced a month ago. I know it's subjective, but I'm very critical about PQ. And SD PQ blows away DIRECTV's SD.

I had a free FiOS DVR 2 years ago hooked up next to an HR34 on a Panasonic 65 S1 plasma, and saw the same differences. Marginally better HD, much better SD.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

lparsons21 said:


> Absolutely!!
> 
> I could switch to IPTV and save a bundle of money. But I won't...


Exactly, that's your choice. But at least you admit Directv is not the only option that should be looked at and you and I both know it's now one of the most expensive tv options but not the most advanced, and that's never been the case.
Tivo ,X1 , and even the Hopper HD dvrs have turned the tables when it comes to functions and reliability. 
HR'S well, never been a fan. Bottom line, they are never consistently stable.

Sent from my Galaxy S5


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

Steve said:


> Maybe it's the SA boxes...


Maybe you're right. If, after 2 years, I don't find FiOS so great (or they finally move to IP delivery) I'll take a closer look at Cablevision.


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## Bill Broderick (Aug 25, 2006)

Diana C said:


> For me, the decision was simple:
> 
> *DirecTV*
> Premier Programming: $129.99
> ...


You make a compelling argument. A few years ago, it looked like I was going to have to cancel DirecTV. I had a lazy installer claiming LOS issue, when I needed Slimline upgrade from my old Phase III dish. I ended up hiring an antenna installer to put the dish up (DirecTV gave me a second free HD DVR to compensate me for my cost/effort).

At the time, when I looked into FiOS, the cost savings weren't as significant as they currently are for you. I don't know if Tivo's were an option for FiOS back then or not. If they were, I didn't know that. IIRC, although programming costs were lower, equipment costs were higher and I don't believe that I was allowed to have more than 1 DVR on the account. It became a moot point once I was able to get the Slimline installed.

I still have over a year left on my current commitment (my HR44 was installed last September) and I do like Sunday Ticket. But, the scheduling changes over the past few years which have 1) allowed NBC to "commandeer" many of the top games to Sunday night and 2) allowed the league to schedule more Jets & Giants games at times other than the traditional Sunday 1pm/4pm slots, there aren't nearly as many "must see" games that are blacked out in New York as there used to be, Sunday Ticket is no longer as valuable to me as it once was.

I may have to give serious consideration to a FiOS/Tivo setup once my commitment is up.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

damondlt said:


> Exactly, that's your choice. But at least you admit Directv is not the only option that should be looked at and you and I both know it's now one of the most expensive tv options but not the most advanced, and that's never been the case.
> Tivo ,X1 , and even the Hopper HD dvrs have turned the tables when it comes to functions and reliability.
> HR'S well, never been a fan. Bottom line, they are never consistently stable.
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy S5


Yep, I'm a dual-sub these days as much to see if it in any way makes sense and since both are 1st year installs, the cost is about what I'd be paying with only one. Actually about a $20 penalty per month. At the end of the year I'll decide which to keep and pay the ETF of the other. If I was to make the change to just one today, it would have to be Dish because of the Hopper/SuperJoey setup w/PTAT, even at the loss of some premiums in HD and no NFLST. If nothing else, the few months I've been dual-subbed has made it starkly clear to me which tech fits me best.


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## Jon J (Apr 22, 2002)

I envy those of you with alternatives. AT&T strung fiber down my street four years ago but politics has prevented them from activating fiber service to provide truly fast U-Verse video. Comcrap has copper hanging from the same poles but I'm not interested in dealing with them. My (probably unreasonable) hope is that Google will choose us for their fiber service and actually extend it to my area.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Jon J said:


> I envy those of you with alternatives. AT&T strung fiber down my street four years ago but politics has prevented them from activating fiber service to provide truly fast U-Verse video. Comcrap has copper hanging from the same poles but I'm not interested in dealing with them. My (probably unreasonable) hope is that Google will choose us for their fiber service and actually extend it to my area.


This is definitely an issue. In too many places, you have basically four options. The cable company, Dish or DirecTV, cable cutter. I know some here are trying to get Google, but the local phone company is becoming quite aggressive on fiber, and continue to do so after they complete the sale of their wireless business to Verizon.


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## mrdobolina (Aug 28, 2006)

I, too, envy those with more/better choices. My choices are DIRECTV, Dish, or Comcast for tv providers (well, and OTA+Netflix/Amazon/Hulu) and Comcast or Centurylink DSL for internet. I've been a DTV subscriber for so long, I don't feel moving to Comcast (even with their X1 platform) would be worth it for me with having to relearn new channel #'s and equipment. Also, everytime I stay somewhere (parent's house, vacation rentals) with Dish, I just absolutely despise their interface. I suppose I haven't seen a Hopper/Joey setup yet, but either way, I just prefer the devil I know over the devil I don't. :grin:

Anyway, we go with a mix of DIRECTV for TV and Comcast for cable. I find that we are paying less with our setup than a lot of others locally that have Comcast for both TV and internet, and with TV on fewer TVs than us (we have 3 TVs, a Genie and 2 HRs all on whole home). I'm certain if were in a similar situation as Diana, seeing those savings, I'd definitely walk the exact same path.


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## pappasbike (Sep 19, 2006)

I currently have Comcast for phone and internet and have been very pleased with it. They keep increasing the download speeds for their different tiers so I could save some money by downgrading to a lower tier and still have a very fast service. However each year I've called in ( actually Twittered in ) and gotten them to reduce the charges back to essentially what they were when I first signed up with their double/triple play discounts. Many of my friends have Comcast's HD service and none have complained, at least not about the issues that crop up frequently with DTV. Now with their X1 platform they offer something that could fairly well replace what I get on my genie. The reviews I've run down about the X1 haven't been very good yet so I think that's just something I'll keep an eye on. When the first genies came out their issues kept me from acquiring one till about a year after their release so Comcast's issues are comparable.

It's very difficult actually to compare the different plans from the different providers to know for sure whether you'd be paying more or less, especially after any discount period. That's the way they want it, the more confused you are the less likely you'll change. But at least so far with Comcast they have reduced my bill when I initiate contact with them. Usually DTV offers me an additional premium service at some discount when I ask, that doesn't really help. I, just as most of you, am spending a considerable amount of money each month. Certainly more than I thought I'd ever be paying for TV! And have to suffer the issues that come with each device and software updates, and I do understand that the other providers will also have their own issues but it would be nice for DTV to offer some kind of compensation for long term subscribers ( since 2001 for me ) without fabricating some kind of story.

At this point I'm just keeping an eye on options, FiOS is not available, Dish is, but if I should switch I don't think I'd go with another satellite service. One thing, which may be minor, that really aggravates me about DTV, is the coupons that they send you for pay per view movies. We rent quite a few of these but because we are set up for automatic billing and payment we would have to write down the movies we've rented and then mail in that coupon that always seems to get lost. They know which movies you rent, they know how many, why can't they just automatically apply a discount/rebate for you on the next rental? Why in this age of online access for just about everything do we have to mail in a coupon? Other than they know half the people won't bother or even remember to do so.


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## daniloni (Jul 31, 2013)

I have both Comcast and DirecTV because adding Comcast TV was basically the same price as having them for only internet and phone. I have to say that if I wasn't a sports person, Comcast would be a no-brainer over DirecTV. I find Comcast picture quality to be generally better than DirecTV's. DirecTV has a big advantage as far as the stock DVR and whole home options, but Comcast's on demand library is so incredible it basically moots the point of having a DVR. Basically the entire current season of every show is available on demand in HD. And if you invest in a Roamio and minis, then the DVR and whole home experience is even better than DirecTV. This is especially true on Comcast where you have access to On Demand on TiVo (at least in my area). In my area, Comcast is offering 105 down/20 up internet, unlimited home phone, and the premier TV package for $160 per month (plus $8/month modem rental). That low rate could easily finance the Roamio/mini investment. Unfortunately as far as this discussion is concerned, I'm a sports person, and Comcast trails far behind DirecTV as far as sports offerings, so getting rid of DirecTV completely in favor of Comcast is a no-go for me.


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## pappasbike (Sep 19, 2006)

daniloni said:


> In my area, Comcast is offering 105 down/20 up internet, unlimited home phone, and the premier TV package for $160 per month (plus $8/month modem rental). That low rate could easily finance the Roamio/mini investment. Unfortunately as far as this discussion is concerned, I'm a sports person, and Comcast trails far behind DirecTV as far as sports offerings, so getting rid of DirecTV completely in favor of Comcast is a no-go for me.


That's my current internet package with Comcast with local phone service. What you're paying for all that and the tv package is close to what I'm paying DTV for an HR 34 genie, an HR 22 dvr and the whole home service. The sports offerings are not really important to us. I'm not that interested in the Tivos but they're something I would consider as well as the X 1 set up from Comcast if I see that the reviews improve. Either way DTV is slowly losing whatever appeal it had for me.


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## JACKIEGAGA (Dec 11, 2006)

peds48 said:


> But that is the rub, there WAS a problem when they called in! but the CSR turned that SC into an upgrade. win-win for both parties, installer of course looses


Wouldn't an upgrade restart a 2 year commitment? How is that a win for the customer? I only see it as a win for Directv.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

JACKIEGAGA said:


> Wouldn't an upgrade restart a 2 year commitment? How is that a win for the customer? I only see it as a win for Directv.


Yep , you get a free Addtional 2 year commitment, or else Directv gets an additional $480 ETF fees and you still don't get to keep the receiver for resale.

Sent from my Galaxy S5


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

JACKIEGAGA said:


> Wouldn't an upgrade restart a 2 year commitment? How is that a win for the customer? I only see it as a win for Directv.


customer gets a FREE equipment "refresh" and/or upgrade. Or if the customer wants, the can offer to pay regular lease price instead of free.!


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## 242424 (Mar 22, 2012)

That's only free as in no money. Kind of like saying you didn't have to pay a speeding ticket but you spent 10 days in jail...


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

242424 said:


> That's only free as in no money.


Well isn't that the description of "free"? you can always volunteer to pay full price if your conscience is telling you to.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

peds48 said:


> Well isn't that the description of "free"? you can always volunteer to pay full price if your conscience is telling you to.


That is not offered to everyone first of all and again it a minimum $1320 to Directv.
Because you must keep minimum, $30 permonth service and pay $25 advanced receiver fee for 24 months.
Or pay ETF.
And still have to give back that so called Free receiver.
And Full ownership Price is $450 for a 500GB 2 tuner HD DVR. !rolling
I bought a Brand New hopper with sling ,3 Tuners and 2 TB hardrive for Half that!
a 4 Tuner Roamio is only $170 with a 500GB HD and supports OTA.


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## fireponcoal (Sep 26, 2009)

daniloni said:


> I find Comcast picture quality to be generally better than DirecTV's.


.

You are a true HDTVfan! I love when people post stuff like this on DBStalk as many posters generally lose their collective minds over such an idea. I really like the newer Xfinity operating system in all honesty. It's generally much nicer then the current D* offering. I've recently switched to FiOS full time as well. I used to subscribe to both but I didn't see the point any longer either. DirecTV doesn't see the point in giving me local sports so I don't see the point in giving them my money any longer. Perhaps if I lived in the middle of Iowa they would value me more.  I'm not country enough for DirecTV.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

damondlt said:


> That is not offered to everyone first of all and again it a minimum $1320 to Directv.
> Because you must keep minimum, $30 permonth service and pay $25 advanced receiver fee for 24 months.
> Or pay ETF.


You dont need to add none of that if all you are adding and all you have is SD receivers and no DVR. and the commitment for these folks is 12 months not two years.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

damondlt said:


> And still have to give back that so called Free receiver.


keep it long enough and you may get to keep it. I called DirecTV to have an HR23 deactivated, guess what? I get to keep it. I can recycle it, or sell for parts. I am sure I can get $100 if I sell it. for something I pay $0 for, good deal in my books!!!!


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

damondlt said:


> And Full ownership Price is $450 for a 500GB 2 tuner HD DVR.


and what good is that if you dont add any programing to it? or you just purposely left out the programing cost that you (wrongly) included in the DirecTV price comparison

If you are going to compare products, is only fair to do "apple to apples" Not "apples to umbrellas"


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

peds48 said:


> You dont need to add none of that if all you are adding and all you have is SD receivers and no DVR. and the commitment for these folks is 12 months not two years.


What are you talking about? All HD and DVR upgrades are 24 month commitments.

Sent from my Galaxy S5


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

peds48 said:


> and what good is that if you dont add any programing to it? or you just purposely left out the programing cost that you (wrongly) included in the DirecTV price comparison
> 
> If you are going to compare products, is only fair to do "apple to apples" Not "apples to umbrellas"


Again what programming has nothing to do with it. We all know from reading this entire thread Directv is more expensive than most.

So what programming cost would you like to compare cause we did that like 3 pages ago.

Sent from my Galaxy S5


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

damondlt said:


> What are you talking about? All HD and DVR upgrades are 24 month commitments.
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy S5


SD receiver like a D12 (if that is what you are adding ) is a 12 month commitment


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

peds48 said:


> SD receiver like a D12 (if that is what you are adding ) is a 12 month commitment


Are you drunk?
Who give a crap about that.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

damondlt said:


> Because you must keep minimum, $30 permonth service and pay $25 advanced receiver fee for 24 months.





damondlt said:


> Again what programming has nothing to do with it. We all know from reading this entire thread Directv is more expensive than most.
> 
> Because you must keep minimum, $30 permonth service and pay $25 advanced receiver fee for 24 months.


you are adding the programming cost to the "overall price" of a DirecTV receiver but you are not doing the same for the TIVO


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

peds48 said:


> keep it long enough and you may get to keep it. I called DirecTV to have an HR23 deactivated, guess what? I get to keep it. I can recycle it, or sell for parts. I am sure I can get $100 if I sell it. for something I pay $0 for, good deal in my books!!!!


Really, yep because the 2nd biggest POS receiver on the market has a really high demand LOL.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

damondlt said:


> Are you drunk?
> Who give a crap about that.





damondlt said:


> That is not offered to everyone first of all and again it a minimum $1320 to Directv.
> Because you must keep minimum, $30 permonth service and pay $25 advanced receiver fee for 24 months.


Nope, keep p with the conversation. you said you HAVe to pay ARS fe, which is not true if all you are getting is an SD receiver


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

peds48 said:


> you are adding the programming cost to the "overall price" of a DirecTV receiver but you are not doing the same for the TIVO


That's because a Tivo can be shut off at anytime without paying for NOTHING!


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

damondlt said:


> Really, yep because the 2nd biggest POS receiver on the market has a really high demand LOL.


it does not matter. I had a car that if I were to sell it as a whole I would of got $300. sold it for parts and made a little more than a grand


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

peds48 said:


> *Are you drunk?*
> 
> Nope, *keep p with the conversation. you said you HAVe to pay ARS fe*, which is not true if all you are getting is an SD receiver


Yep Never mind I think we can already figure it out.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

damondlt said:


> That's because a Tivo can be shut off at anytime without paying for NOTHING!


but you keep (purposely) missing the point. what good a TIVO is WITHOUT programming? you will have a shiny door stopper


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

peds48 said:


> it does not matter. I had a car that if I were to sell it as a whole I would of got $300. sold it for parts and made a little more than a grand


Face it Peds, your trying to keep your head above water,
So now your talking about SD Receiver which I might add to own is $150. !rolling
Maybe you can sell it for parts. !rolling !rolling

HR23 , yea those will be flying off the shelf, Everyone wants a POC 5 year old HD DVR that only works with Directv service. !rolling !rolling !rolling


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

damondlt said:


> HR23 , yea those will be flying off the shelf, Everyone wants a POC 5 year old HD DVR that only works with Directv service.


I said sell it or parts, that means I may sell the hard drive, the power supply and whatever is in there that can be had. even if I were to make $10.00 that is $10.00 than i and to set with


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

peds48 said:


> but you keep (purposely) missing the point. what good a TIVO is WITHOUT programming? you will have a shiny door stopper


Att, Verizon, multiple Cable providers.

That's what good a Tivo is.
What you think Directv is a programming leader? Ha maybe if you like NFL ST.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

damondlt said:


> Face it Peds, your trying to keep your head above water,
> So now your talking about SD Receiver which I might add to own is $150.


That was an example that you dont need to pay the ARS fee.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

peds48 said:


> I said sell it or parts, that means I may sell the hard drive, the power supply and whatever is in there that can be had. even if I were to make $10.00 that is $10.00 than i and to set with


Why bother??? Remember Directv gives everyone for free HR24 and HR44s , and all the latest tech gadgets for free, remember !rolling !rolling !rolling 
All you have to do is ASK. That simple.
But hey, never know when you may have to replace a Hard drive in your Leased Directv HR23. !rolling


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

damondlt said:


> That's what good a Tivo is.
> What you think Directv is a programming leader? Ha maybe if you like NFL ST.


If you are so displeased with the service, you should def follow Diana steps and move on.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

damondlt said:


> Why bother??? Remember Directv gives everyone for free HR24 and HR44s , and all the latest tech gadgets for free, remember


Correct, but it does not help if you have an OWNED defective HDDVR that you can salvage for a few bucks


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

peds48 said:


> Correct, but it does not help if you have an OWNED defective HDDVR that you can salvage for a few bucks


 !rolling


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

damondlt said:


> !rolling


Exactly! :rolling:


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

damondlt said:


> Att, Verizon, multiple Cable providers.
> 
> That's what good a Tivo is.
> What you think Directv is a programming leader? Ha maybe if you like NFL ST.


They sure are in my area.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

Always fun here.
At least we battle, and next thread we are civil. :righton:

Now get back to my 103 CA thread and lets figure out whats causing this TP 10 dilemma . :goodjob:


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

damondlt said:


> Always fun here.
> At least we battle, and next thread we are civil. :righton:


Yep. no hard feelings... :goodjob:


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

inkahauts said:


> They sure are in my area.


That's good, But again only an opinion, and in this thread some have good alternatives.

What I'm getting at , and most would agree , its easier to switch to cable and get TiVo equipment, and try it out, If you don't like it , you sell the HIGHLY demanded Roamios and MINIs, and recoup 50- 70% of your losses.

Not that easy to do with Directv.
I leave tomorrow, I'm out my equipment and ETF.
So with that in mind, I'm going to go with both providers for about 6 months. That's my plan.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

damondlt said:


> That's good, But again only an opinion, and in this thread some have good alternatives.
> 
> What I'm getting at , and most would agree , its easier to switch to cable and get TiVo equipment, and try it out,


Easy if you have $1500+ to waste on equipment. not a lot of folks have such luxury. This is why we have the subsidy platform


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

peds48 said:


> Easy if you have $1500+ to waste on equipment. not a lot of folks have such luxury. This is why we have the subsidy platform


I just bought a Romio ,Roamio Plus and 2 Minis for 
$740.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

damondlt said:


> Att, Verizon, multiple Cable providers.
> 
> That's what good a Tivo is.
> What you think Directv is a programming leader? Ha maybe if you like NFL ST.


I wish AT&T allowed Tivo. I have a Premier sitting it it's box from when I tried it with TWC. Cable Cards and adapter pairing was a nightmare and I never got all the channels correctly after SIX tech visits. Finally dropped TWC and got Uverse... their boxes are horrible.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

damondlt said:


> I just bought a Romio ,Roamio Plus and 2 Minis for
> $740.


Good for you. seems like you are doing well for yourself since you can afford to buy all of these plus a Hoppa and the monkey set as well.... unfortunately most folks can afford such luxury


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

peds48 said:


> Good for you. seems like you are doing well for yourself since you can afford to buy all of these plus a Hoppa and the monkey set as well.... unfortunately most folks can afford such luxury


Hopper, is already resold. A friend of mine had one already, and dish wouldn't cut him a deal on a 2nd one so I sold it to him for same price I paid.
And now he doesn't have to commit.
No hopper again for a while.

Sent from my Galaxy S5


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## fireponcoal (Sep 26, 2009)

peds48 said:


> Good for you. seems like you are doing well for yourself since you can afford to buy all of these plus a Hoppa and the monkey set as well.... unfortunately most folks can afford such luxury


Don't installers get their equipment and service for free? Thanks for lookin' out for us pooh folks.

Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk


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## mdavej (Jan 31, 2007)

peds48 said:


> Good for you. seems like you are doing well for yourself since you can afford to buy all of these plus a Hoppa and the monkey set as well.... unfortunately most folks can afford such luxury


I hear you. Best value by far is HTPC. Use a PC you already own, add a $100 quad tuner, $2/month cable card (at my cable company, $5 on FIOS I think) and you're in business. Expand the system to the whole house for $100 per TV with extenders (used Xbox or new Echo). Been doing this for a few years now since leaving DirecTV and haven't regretted it one bit. I get far more HD, better SD and a much lower price for the equivalent programming package. You could argue that Tivo is nearly as cheap considering resale, but upfront cost is huge. Drawbacks of course are no On Demand or ST, but I never used those anyway. Anything On Demand I can usually find on-line the rare occasions I need it.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

fireponcoal said:


> Don't installers get their equipment and service for free? Thanks for lookin' out for us pooh folks.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk


Correct, and even with that, we can't afford the luxuries that damondlt has the pleasure to enjoy! buying hoppa and monkey just for the fun of it or just in case!

Remember, we are not poor, we just spend our money wisely... :righton:


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

mdavej said:


> I hear you. Best value by far is HTPC. Use a PC you already own, add a $100 quad tuner, $2/month cable card (at my cable company, $5 on FIOS I think) and you're in business.


Excellent idea if it wasn't for the fact that I get a tremendous deal with DirecTV


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

peds48 said:


> Correct, and even with that, we can't afford the luxuries that damondlt has the pleasure to enjoy! buying hoppa and monkey just for the fun of it or just in case!
> 
> Remember, we are not poor, we just spend our money wisely... :righton:


Spending money on Directv isn't always the wisest choice for everyone, believe it or not.
Lol.

Sent from my Galaxy S5


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

peds48 said:


> Easy if you have $1500+ to waste on equipment. not a lot of folks have such luxury. This is why we have the subsidy platform


You keep referring to "wasting money." You might want to look again at my analysis in post 99. I would hardly call that "wasting" money. If you want to stay current with DirecTV DVR models, you will pay between $0 and $399 to stay current. Since DirecTV can or will not guarantee what model DVR you will get when ask for a replacement the only way to get a specific model is to lie in order to get a service call and the bribe the tech, or buy from a retailer like Solid Signal. No matter how you do, it will cost you money.

But even without any buying TiVo hardware (using Verizon's 6 tuner VMS1100s), and without considering any "upfront" fees paid to DirecTV for receivers, and without any service discounts, Verizon is still about $50/month cheaper than DirecTV.

So to recap:

DirecTV has no particular content advantage
DirecTV has no quality advantage
DirecTV has no customer service advantage
DirecTV has no hardware advantage

So, unless you absolutely, positively can't live without NFL Sunday Ticket, why is DirecTV worth more?


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## JACKIEGAGA (Dec 11, 2006)

Diana C said:


> So, unless you absolutely, positively can't live without NFL Sunday Ticket, why is DirecTV worth more?


This why I'm still with DirecTv


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

Hey Diana, I wanted to say thanks for the great information on the TiVos. 
Sixto's and your reviews sealed the deal. 
I didn't go with the lifetime plan as of yet, but they told me I can buy it when ever.

I ordered the equipment yesterday. Right now I can use all with my local cable provider. But VOD won't be aloud until sometime later this summer . But that's okay.
I will get a double play package, for 129.99 for the first 12 months that includes everything including internet. 
Add $50 for my equipment
So I'm looking at 180 permonth.
Currently paying 280 with Directv and Internet.

Sent from my Galaxy S5


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

So just for you peds, in the first year I will save $1200, so even with paying $750 up front for tivo, I'll still save over $400 the first year, and $240 the second year.

Sent from my Galaxy S5


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Why do people critique or care what provider anyone chooses? It's their house and money. Diana or anyone doesn't need to justify to any fanboys why she's switching.

These topics are very helpful to learn about other options, though, it's just a shame naysayers and zealots muddy them up.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

sigma1914 said:


> Why do people critique or care what provider anyone chooses? It's their house and money. Diana or anyone doesn't need to justify to any fanboys why she's switching.
> 
> These topics are very helpful to learn about other options, though, it's just a shame naysayers and zealots muddy them up.


I agree, and I like Directv, But I like to try new things, and If I can do it and pay the same or less well that just seals the deal.

Problem I have with Directv, is the Internet bundling sucks.
Its Verizon DSL only and only 3 MBPS max.
Or pay out the A$$ for limited Satellite internet.

No way!
And now Att in 4 years is going to try and put that LTE in our faces. No thanks.

Me using Tivos and switching to cable, saves me money on Internet, and paying only $.50 for analog jacks in my office and spare bedrooms, give me access to 75 channels and my HD locals in them rooms. 
Where these required $6 box with directv.
No more $3.63 RSN fee, No more $7.99 Protection plan

But I'm Keeping Directv until October. I may not start Cable untill Next month.
I want to pay off my MLB pack with Directv and finish the season, and next season I will qualify for Free MLB EI on my cable system.
And I'll get Comcast Philly so I can catch all my Eagles pregames and after shows.


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

sigma1914 said:


> Why do people critique or care what provider anyone chooses? It's their house and money. Diana or anyone doesn't need to justify to any fanboys why she's switching.
> 
> These topics are very helpful to learn about other options, though, it's just a shame naysayers and zealots muddy them up.


Exactly. Just to reiterate, we have been happy with DirecTV for the past 12 years. It has been more expensive than our other options for a few years now, but we thought it was worth it. But the price difference has just become too large.

Even if FiOS was inferior to DirecTV, a lot of deficiencies can be tolerated for $100/month.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

I just called about a bundle from Verizon and indeed it would save me a bundle of money. There are some difference in the charges of items like DVRs , etc. I also asked for the pricing after the 24 month offer was up. It was still way less than what I pay now. Now I am paying $160 for DirecTV, $76 for Comcast internet and $53 AT&T phone service.

Here is the rub to all of that. Fios is available in my zip code, BUT NOT to my address. Oh Well, so much for that at this time.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Diana C said:


> Exactly. Just to reiterate, we have been happy with DirecTV for the past 12 years. It has been more expensive than our other options for a few years now, but we thought it was worth it. But the price difference has just become too large.
> 
> Even if FiOS was inferior to DirecTV, a lot of deficiencies can be tolerated for $100/month.


Sure, but diff. Strokes, diff. Folks- Until I learn that a service I can get has better PQ or content I "need", I am with DIRECTV® until the cows come home, the chickens roo....


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

As a former FiOS customer (there's an ONT in my basement), I get lots of "returning customer" offers that are pretty hard to pass up, especially with Roamio out there as an option. E.g, I can get their "preferred" package, along with 50/25 internet and their VOIP service for $69/month for 2 years, along with a $200 gift card towards the purchase of any tablet! Add a cable card for $5 and about $10 in taxes, and that's $85/month + Roamio for all 3 services. That'd be about $80/month less than I was paying DIRECTV, Cablevision and Vonage, with a similar programming package from DIRECTV and 15/5 internet. I haven't done the math, but that $80 savings would likely be enough to pay for a Roamio and 4 minis and lifetime service in about 2 years.

If, instead of Roamio, I went with Verizon's 6-tuner DVR for 5 rooms total, it would cost me another $60/month, still $20 cheaper than I was paying and no out of pocket expense. That's also about what I'm paying Cablevision now for my "cloud DVR" in 5 rooms with 50/25 internet, except my Cablevision programming package is a step up from the Verizon/DIRECTV packages above. It includes HBO/SHO and a few extra channels.


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## 242424 (Mar 22, 2012)

Someone has been PWNed in this thread over and over. The funny thing is he doesn't even know it, he thinks he's winning


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

Laxguy said:


> I am with DIRECTV® until the cows come home, the chickens roo....


Yea we are well aware of where your staying.
No one here would even think otherwise. 

Sent from my Galaxy S5


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## Bill Broderick (Aug 25, 2006)

Diana C said:


> Even if FiOS was inferior to DirecTV, a lot of deficiencies can be tolerated for $100/month.


Maybe. A good friend of mine recently left DirecTV & FiOS for Cablevision for the savings (I don't know why he went with CV over FiOS). As unhappy as his wife and youngest son are with this move (and the fact that they never miss an opportunity to tell him so), he says that "it's the most expensive $100 per month he's ever saved"


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## Bill Broderick (Aug 25, 2006)

Diana C said:


> You keep referring to "wasting money." You might want to look again at my analysis in post 99. I would hardly call that "wasting" money.


I agree that the phrase "wasting money" is a poor choice of words. However, his point that many people are not financially capable of making the initial outlay that you were able to invest is a valid one. For years, the fact that people were required to purchase their own equipment hurt DirecTV sales.

The fact that FiOS is able to support both a lease and ownership model is a big advantage to people who's finances are such that they can afford a large initial cash outlay with a long-term payback.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

Bill Broderick said:


> I agree that the phrase "wasting money" is a poor choice of words. However, his point that many people are not financially capable of making the initial outlay that you were able to invest is a valid one. For years, the fact that people were required to purchase their own equipment hurt DirecTV sales.
> 
> .


Tivo has zero down Basic Roamios, $99 Roamio Plus and $199 for Roamio Pro, you just pay 19.99 per month for 2 years, and after 2 years you pay regular price or life time rate if you choose.
Minis are still $99 each.
And you own the equipment after 2 years.
It's not a bad deal considering your only paying $120 For a Basic Roamio $220 for a Plus and $320 for a Pro.

https://www.tivo.com/shop/promo/roamio-1999mo

Sent from my Galaxy S5


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

damondlt said:


> Tivo has zero down Basic Roamios, $99 Roamio Plus and $199 for Roamio Pro, you just pay 19.99 per month for 2 years, and after 2 years you pay regular price or life time rate if you choose.
> Minis are still $99 each.
> And you own the equipment after 2 years.
> It's not a bad deal considering your only paying $120 For a Basic Roamio $220 for a Plus and $320 for a Pro.
> ...


How do you figure you're only paying $120 for a Basic Roamio? I see it as $480 (24 months x $19.99/month) I suppose if you were intending to pay monthly service fees instead of buying lifetime you can calculate it that way, but paying the monthly service fee is for suckers.

I think Tivos are great, and have owned one since shortly after the Series 2 was introduced, but I think only those willing to pay for them up front should consider them, because that's the only way they make financial sense. Paying month to month is a terrible deal, because the resale value of the unit is minimal without lifetime service. The only way you come out ahead paying month to month is if you don't get the extended warranty and the unit dies between the first and second year.

If you pay month to month, they'll usually offer a $99 for lifetime deal a while after new models come out, but it requires you've been paying month to month for quite some time, so you still end up paying a lot more for lifetime than if you had just bought it up front.

Paying month to month for a couple years, then buying lifetime would be like leasing a car for two years and then buying it for the full original sticker price. No one would take that deal. I realize not everyone can afford the up front cost, but if that's the case they should probably rethink their spending priorities. With this "deal", Tivo is preying on the financially incompetent similar to how payday lenders do.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

You answered your own question.

I don't really see an issue paying monthly, you have to pay monthly with everything else. 

Sent from my Galaxy S5


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

slice1900 said:


> With this "deal", Tivo is preying on the financially incompetent similar to how payday lenders do.


LMAO, yea like Directv is such a straight shooter with their lease deals and ETFs.

I paid Directv over $5100 since I started back in 2012. I leave tomorrow, you know what get to take with me. 
NOTHING!
Talk about a bad investment.
And being a SUCKER!

Sent from my Galaxy S5


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Bill Broderick said:


> I agree that the phrase "wasting money" is a poor choice of words. However, his point that many people are not financially capable of making the initial outlay that you were able to invest is a valid one. For years, the fact that people were required to purchase their own equipment hurt DirecTV sales.





damondlt said:


> Tivo has zero down Basic Roamios,


And this is exactly my point. with DirecTV as a new customer I get an advanced WHDVR for $0.00 down. Who ever thinks that buying to own saves them money because they get to sell the equipment afterwards, are mistaken. I go through the same thing with Apple every year. I buy the newest iPhone for $860, I get to sell it for about $400 after the year when the new one comes out. If I could lease the latest iPhone for $6.00 monthly I will jump on that right away.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Diana C said:


> You keep referring to "wasting money." You might want to look again at my analysis in post 99.


I am only referring to hardware, if you think you are getting your money's worth after the resale, think again


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## Joe Tylman (Dec 13, 2012)

peds48 said:


> I am only referring to hardware, if you think you are getting your money's worth after the resale, think again


Actually TiVo fanatics are on par with Apple fanatics in how much they will pay for older equipment. Since the lifetime service transfers with the units and not per the person they pay a premium for it.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

damondlt said:


> LMAO, yea like Directv is such a straight shooter with their lease deals and ETFs.
> 
> I paid Directv over $5100 since I started back in 2012. I leave tomorrow, you know what get to take with me.
> NOTHING!
> ...


My comparison was only about Tivo, about paying monthly versus paying up front, not comparing with Directv or anything else. Whether Directv or cable service is a better deal is a separate matter, as it depends on where you are, who your provider is, and what kind of deals you can get. I wish FIOS was around here, I'd jump on those deals people are talking about in a heartbeat. Unfortunately I pay $80 a month for expanded basic service (HD with no premiums) because there's only one cable company in town, and Directv and Dish aren't an option for me so I can't even play the switching game.

Buying a Tivo that has little resale value and paying monthly for it is not really any different than paying up front for a Genie and paying monthly fees for it with nothing to show for it later. The difference is that if you want Directv service for the content it has that your other options don't, you have no choice. With cable you do, you can take the cable company's DVR and pay monthly with nothing to show for it, take a Tivo and pay monthly with essentially nothing to show for it, or own the Tivo and get a far far better deal than the other options. It is much more of a sucker play to have a choice and make the wrong one, than to have no choice at all (i.e. someone who considers NFLST a necessity)


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

peds48 said:


> I am only referring to hardware, if you think you are getting your money's worth after the resale, think again


How do you figure? Let's consider what I've spend on them over the years.

Tivo #1: Series 2, back when you could buy ones that came with "Tivo Basic". That was fine for me so I never upgraded to full Tivo service. Total cost $200, and it lasted from I think fall 2003 through fall 2010. Monthly fees from Tivo: $0. Monthly fees from cable company: $0. The video output finally gave out after 7 years of service. So it ended up costing me about $2.50/month.

Tivo #2: Premiere, total cost $450, including lifetime and three year extended warranty. Monthly fees from Tivo: $0. Monthly fees from cable company: $1.99. Still going strong a little over four years after purchase, and I could sell it on Ebay today for $250-$300. So my net investment is $150-$200 over four years, or about $3-$4/month, plus the $1.99/month for a cable card. That's the same price or less that Directv charges for service for a single _receiver_! How exactly is this not getting my money's worth, not just compared to Directv, but compared to Dish or any cable company DVR?

If you pay monthly service for the Tivo, I think the deal isn't all that great, it is pretty much the same as a cable company DVR or leasing from Directv since there is little resale value in a used Tivo without lifetime.


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## PK6301 (May 16, 2012)

I may be off base here, but up until 2 months ago we were a semi cohesive family, that is until the rumor of the buyout became more of a reality. Now this innocuous thread of one individual stating they were leaving for this reason of saving money has exploded into 9-10 pages, Battle lines have been drawn Direct on one side FIOS/TIVO on the other, Owned v.s. Leased, Brother vs. Brother, can't you just hear Scarlet O'Hara "As God is my Witness the South Shall Rise Again"

I am of the opinion, if you are that unhappy, if you can save money, than go for it. This is a free and democratic society. When you leave please wave with all of your fingers, you may have to come back at some time and do not want to create animosity. To those who are stay wish those who are leaving a hearty farewell.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

People don't buy this stuff as an investment, they are all losses, but you have to ask yourself where can I lower my losses.
Well right now , even paying a monthly fee with tivo, and spending 750 on equipment, my first year with cable will save me over $450, 2nd year and beyond, $240 per year.
All TiVos have 1 year warranty and 3 year warranty is only $40.
$96 a year for directv protection plan, and you don't even own any of the equipment, and you don't know what replacement equipment you're even going to get.

Sent from my Galaxy S5


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

And peds stop telling us new customers get free genies and free equipment, because there are over 20 million of us existing customers that don't receive the newest up to date free equipment. 
At least tivo you know what your getting period.
No CSR shuffle, no Say "cancel" at the prompt, no fake service calls, no refurbs.
If I buy a Roamio for $170 and in 3 years sell it for $50, that's 50 more than I'll get for my leased Genie. 


Sent from my Galaxy S5


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## GBFAN (Nov 13, 2006)

Why pay $96 for a "protection" plan that has no guarantee?


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## anex80 (Jul 29, 2005)

GBFAN said:


> Why pay $96 for a "protection" plan that has no guarantee?


I've never understood this either. With the average service call being $50 you would need at least two calls a year before you even break even. I've had D* now for 4 years and I've only had one service call AND they waived the fee! Protection plan is a waste of money IMO.


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

peds48 said:


> I am only referring to hardware, if you think you are getting your money's worth after the resale, think again


Except you can't separate the hardware from the service since, in most cases, the hardware is only usable on a given service. I can't take a Genie to Comcast or Verizon, and I can't use a Verizon VMS1100 on DirecTV or Cablevision.

DirecTV's pricing plan forces you to compare your total cost, not just hardware or programming alone. If you have a Genie you are also subject to DVR and HD fees, plus the whole home fee, in the vast majority of cases ,plus the standard outlet fee (waived for the first outlet). So, what is the monthly cost of a Genie? $6/month, $16/month, $26/month, $29/month or $31/month? It depends...on how may other devices you have and what models they are and how you allocate the fees across them. Verizon is doing something similar with they way they are pricing Quantum TV (the VMS1100).

If you want to talk only about initial hardware cost, I'll talk only about monthly fees...which is an argument DirecTV will lose badly. It is only when you include the hardware component that DirecTV's cost structure become competitive.


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

PK6301 said:


> I may be off base here, but up until 2 months ago we were a semi cohesive family, that is until the rumor of the buyout became more of a reality. Now this innocuous thread of one individual stating they were leaving for this reason of saving money has exploded into 9-10 pages, Battle lines have been drawn Direct on one side FIOS/TIVO on the other, Owned v.s. Leased, Brother vs. Brother, can't you just hear Scarlet O'Hara "As God is my Witness the South Shall Rise Again"
> 
> I am of the opinion, if you are that unhappy, if you can save money, than go for it. This is a free and democratic society. When you leave please wave with all of your fingers, you may have to come back at some time and do not want to create animosity. To those who are stay wish those who are leaving a hearty farewell.


I think the only people really arguing are people that argue with each other on many occasions. I have nothing against DirecTV...I am currently a customer and have been for 12 years. We have simply decided that in our case we can save a significant amount of money by switching to FiOS and TiVO equipment. I fully recognize that not everyone is in the same position. Not everyone has FiOS available and not everyone has the capital available to purchase $2,000 worth of TiVo equipment.

The point of this thread was not to encourage anyone to "dump" DirecTV. I was simply pointing out there are other options, and some of them might make sense for others. Since this website is not owned by DirecTV, I felt it was fair game to discuss any and all alternatives that might present themselves. DirecTV is a fine service, and if I were not able to realize a VERY significant saving, I wouldn't consider the switch.


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## lgb0250 (Jan 24, 2010)

Diana C said:


> I think the only people really arguing are people that argue with each other on many occasions. I have nothing against DirecTV...I am currently a customer and have been for 12 years. We have simply decided that in our case we can save a significant amount of money by switching to FiOS and TiVO equipment. I fully recognize that not everyone is in the same position. Not everyone has FiOS available and not everyone has the capital available to purchase $2,000 worth of TiVo equipment.
> The point of this thread was not to encourage anyone to "dump" DirecTV. I was simply pointing out there are other options, and some of them might make sense for others. Since this website is not owned by DirecTV, I felt it was fair game to discuss any and all alternatives that might present themselves. DirecTV is a fine service, and if I were not able to realize a VERY significant saving, I wouldn't consider the switch.


All you really did was stir the pot Diana. There are many people here that are not totally happy with DirecTV. Then again, I am sure there are many not happy with DISH, Comcast, etc, etc, etc! That's just a fact of life. You can't please all the people all the time. Kinda like this forum.

My allegiances are with my wallet. Always have been and always will be. Over the years I've had DirecTV and went to DISH and then back to DirecTV again. I also had TWC twice. What a joke they were. My commitment is up so I'm always looking for alternatives.

If FIOS was available in my area I would do exactly what you have done.

I for one will miss your post. They were always knowledgeable and level headed.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Diana C said:


> not everyone has the capital available to purchase $2,000 worth of TiVo equipment.


bingo ! this is what I have been saying all along

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mrdobolina (Aug 28, 2006)

I've been a DIRECTV customer since 1997(Wow! That made my eyes bulge out a little), and if FIOS was available in the Denver area with similar savings I would very likely do the same as Diana. It would be another long term play in my eyes. As it is currently, I won't play the "switch providers every so often to save $$" game because I don't want to relearn new channel numbers and I really like my current setup with DIRECTV. Plus, I have no problem playing the "Call DIRECTV and see what deals they'll give me" game because I've had pretty good success with that and even their CSRs are usually impressed with how long I have been a customer. 

The other thing is that I still pay less for my DIRECTV for TV/Comcast for internet combo than friends I know that only use Comcast for both services and are no longer in their "new customer" deal. That seems weird to me, but it's true. 

I'm glad Diana started this thread. It's good to know what's out there and to be able to hope for further build out of other competitors to Comcast et.al.


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

peds48 said:


> bingo ! this is what I have been saying all along
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


And at no time did I suggest that everyone should do as I do. You started out by saying: "I can't see myself wasting over $1500 dollars for equipment that would be obsolete in a few years" and then went on to make a completely invalid comparison to somehow "finessing" the system to get DirecTV equipment for free, which almost never happens for existing customers. As each of your points were refuted by others, you kept changing the context of your responses, and it was that practice that raised the ire of several members.

The point of my post is simply that if you have access to a viable alternative for multichannel TV there are options that can save you a lot of money in the long run. Had I not seen Sixto's original post a couple of months ago, I would never have considered switching. Once I did, I spent weeks working on a spreadsheet analysis of the costs, the payback period and aggregate savings. I found a path that realized significant savings, although with the caveat of a fairly significant up front investment. I simple shared the results of that analysis. I never criticized DirecTV - I only observed that, compared to the options I investigated, they are charging a premium for their service. I leave it to the individual reader to determine whether or not, in their particular circumstance, that premium is justified.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

Diana C said:


> And at no time did I suggest that everyone should do as I do. You started out by saying: "I can't see myself wasting over $1500 dollars for equipment that would be obsolete in a few years" and then went on to make a completely invalid comparison to somehow "finessing" the system to get DirecTV equipment for free, which almost never happens for existing customers. As each of your points were refuted by others, you kept changing the context of your responses, and it was that practice that raised the ire of several members.
> 
> .


Exactly

Sent from my Galaxy S5


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## sunfire9us (Feb 15, 2009)

coolman302003 said:


> I have four TV options available here in the south east. DirecTV is hands down the best of all of them. I'm an out of market and longtime Spurs fan so NBA TV and League Pass are huge deals for me. Sports overall is a HUGE driving factor for us. I have hands-on with D* and Dish for TV all the others I personally have not subscribed to but have viewed/used at friends/relatives/demo setups etc.
> 
> DirecTV -- excellent HD PQ, carries all the sports (including local) that I want, including NFL Sunday Ticket, NBA TV HD, NBA League Pass HD with dual teams HD feeds (I always have the Spurs home team announcers feed unless there on OTA in San Antonio [KENS or KMYS], or my local RSN). D* does an excellent job with the local market RSNs including when there are multiple games on at the same time since they carry all the overflow/alternates and in HD. Receiving all of your local RSNs in HD is important for an out of market fan as well, because when my team plays the local in market team if D* didn't offer the local RSN I would be SOL for that game due to blackout rules. Genie and HR2X platform have both worked excellent for us, and there is always new features being added. There HD content available On Demand has continued to grow more and more every year. Overall the best provider for our needs.
> 
> ...


One quick question: do you know or understand the difference between there vs THEIR? Lol

Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Diana C said:


> And at no time did I suggest that everyone should do as I do. You started out by saying: "I can't see myself wasting over $1500 dollars for equipment that would be obsolete in a few years" and then went on to make a completely invalid comparison to somehow "finessing" the system to get DirecTV equipment for free, which almost never happens for existing customers. As each of your points were refuted by others, you kept changing the context of your responses, and it was that practice that raised the ire of several members.


you are counting your chickens before they hatch. You are wasting over $1500 in hopes that 2 or more years from now you can recoup more than 60%. and since you will be a new TV customer, that same customer would not have to waste over a grand just to watch TV as they would their equipment free of charge

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## acostapimps (Nov 6, 2011)

I did get a Genie HR44 and wireless mini client for free, but I guess I'm one of the very few to get perks for existing customers, It just never hurts to ask, But if you're paying 200 or even 300 a month and no breaks on your bill, then I definitely understand on the switch or cord cutting altogether.


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

peds48 said:


> you are counting your chickens before they hatch. You are wasting over $1500 in hopes that 2 or more years from now you can recoup more than 60%. and since you will be a new TV customer, that same customer would not have to waste over a grand just to watch TV as they would their equipment free of charge
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


There you go again, saying I am "wasting" money on TiVo DVRs. But you are wrong there. I am not counting on recouping anything. I consider the $2,000 spent on TiVo hardware as equivalent to the over $2,400 I have spent on acquiring DirecTV hardware over the years. They are both capital expenditures, not investments.

Further, if you actually look at the analysis I posted, and really try to absorb it, you'll see that I only made this move because I can cover the hardware cost with savings on service in under 18 months. If, at the end of 2 years I throw all the TiVo equipment in the trash, I will STILL be about $1000 ahead of staying with DirecTV.

But since you insist on ignoring the $100 per month difference (and that's BEFORE factoring in the new customer discounts of $45/month) between DirecTV's Premiere and Verizon's bundled price for the UltimateHD package, let's talk about hardware...

DirecTV cannot match the configuration I have with TiVo. The TiVo Roamio is very similar to DirecTV's Genie (although TiVo has an additional tuner available and has a 3TB option). I have two Roamio Pros, supporting 5 clients. *DirecTV can not support an equivalent configuration at ANY price* since they can not support a 2 Genie configuration. So, if I were to return to DirecTV in 2 years, even if they give me a Genie and 4 clients for free, I will still need another 2 HD DVRs (a total of 5 recording tuners is insufficient for our needs, so H25s won't cut it). If you think DirecTV will give me a free HR44, 4 free C41s, and 2 free HR25s, plus free installation, plus new subscriber discounts, I'd want to know what you are smoking. There is no way I'll get that configuration for less than $400 out of pocket, and I'd still be short 3 tuners and 4 TB of disk space...not to mention that I may get a HR34 instead of a HR44, and may get a HR23 instead of a HR25, and C31s instead of C41s. Unless of course I go out and buy the equipment at retail, which would give my "new customer package" - price tag of $1,200.

You keep trying to argue that I am not saving money, or not seeing "the big picture" or am in some other way "counting chickens before they hatch" and conducting a faulty analysis. Yet every single one of your arguments have been based upon manipulating the system and/or ignoring the fact this is not a "DVR purchase" - it is a TV entertainment purchase. As such, the cost is the SUM of hardware and content, and must take into account the cost of doing nothing versus the break even point and the total savings over 24, 36, 48 and 60 month periods.

One last hardware comment....

The TiVo Roamio Plus costs $399 at retail, while the DirecTV HR44 costs $299. On the face of it, you might think the Roamio is $100 more for basically the same features. Both have 1 TB drives, both support at least 5 tuners (although the Roamio supports 6), both will bridge Ethernet or wireless LANs with MOCA/DECA segments and both support small IP based clients. However, the Roamios include the functionality of a TiVo Stream, which is equivalent to the GenieGo (which retails for $119). So, in reality, the TiVo (*to buy and OWN*) is about $20 LESS than the cost to LEASE the equivalent Genie and buy a GenieGo. Sure, you own the GenieGo, but you never own the Genie itself.

BTW: Anybody interested in a used GenieGo?


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## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

peds48 said:


> you are counting your chickens before they hatch. You are wasting over $1500 in hopes that 2 or more years from now you can recoup more than 60%. and since you will be a new TV customer, that same customer would not have to waste over a grand just to watch TV as they would their equipment free of charge


Diana has done an anlysis and determined that this avenue is best for her and her family. She was thoughtful enough to share that information with others on this forum. She isn't "wasting" anything; she's purchasing equipment. If push came to shove, she could sell said equipment on eBay. There would be depreciation sure, but it wouldn't be a total loss. And, because TiVos can be used on many systems, demand would be high.

Your response seems to be an entirely emotional one. Yes, it will take some time for her to break even, and then to realize a cost savings, but she has a plan to do just that. There's nothing wrong with taking the long view. Heck, I find doing so to be quite responsible.

If you're happy paying for DirecTV, and with only considering the short-term costs, that's great -- it's your money. Diana is doing what she thinks is best with hers. Why are you taking that so personally?

For my part, I'm going to be retiring early with a disability at the end of this month, so, a couple of months ago, I went to an OTA DVR (the Channel Master DVR+) and cancelled Dish. Netflix and Amazon Prime are great supplements to the broadcast networks, and if I want to see a sporting event that isn't on a broadcast network, I'll go to a sports bar, flirt with the waitresses, and socialize with other fans during the game - just like the old days.

With the ever-increasing costs of having cable or satellite, and considering the inexpensive over-the-top alternatives, I think solutions like mine will play out more and more.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

peds... Just let it go. You're looking really trollish.


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

Oh...I forgot to mention...TiVo Roamios also include Netflix, Hulu, You Tube, Pandora, Spotify, etc., apps. Maybe not as complete an offering as Roku, but can still take the place of an OTT streaming device for a lot of people.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Diana C said:


> There you go again, saying I am "wasting" money on TiVo DVRs. But you are wrong there. I am not counting on recouping anything. I consider the $2,000 spent on TiVo hardware as equivalent to the over $2,400 I have spent on acquiring DirecTV hardware over the years. They are both capital expenditures, not investments.


Again, I am referring hardware Vs. hardware. the fact is that a new customer signing up for DirecTV today does not have to waste $2000 to start service. and down the road, if new hardware becomes available, chances are they will be free as well. With the TiVOs you are stuck for live unless you want to pay out of pocket to buy new hardware.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Reaper said:


> Diana has done an anlysis and determined that this avenue is best for her and her family.
> 
> it's your money. Diana is doing what she thinks is best with hers. Why are you taking that so personally?


I have never, ever on this thread, criticized Diana for moving to FiOS. My argument is about hardware costs.

Is not personal, just having fun.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

sigma1914 said:


> peds... Just let it go. You're looking really trollish.


aren't theses forums made to discuss each other perspectives? If everyone agreed with everything here, what would be the point...


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

sigma1914 said:


> peds... Just let it go. You're looking really trollish.


Agree , and when Peds actually starts paying for his service and equipment the same way the rest of us have to, then you can talk to us about bad investments.

Sent from my Galaxy S5


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

peds48 said:


> and down the road, if new hardware becomes available, chances are they will be free as well.


Total BS
Is that with or without the $8 per month protection plan?

Sent from my Galaxy S5


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Me and damon have been agreeing a lot, lately.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

sigma1914 said:


> Me and damon have been agreeing a lot, lately.


LOL

Sent from my Galaxy S5


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

damondlt said:


> Agree , and when Peds actually starts paying for his service and equipment the same way the rest of us have to, then you can talk to us about bad investments.
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy S5


While I dont pay (wholly, I pay partially) for programing, I do still have to go to almost the same channels to get equipment. Heck I still have 2 HR21s that if I was a customer, they would have been "upgraded" to HR24s long time ago.


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

peds48 said:


> Again, I am referring hardware Vs. hardware. the fact is that a new customer signing up for DirecTV today does not have to waste $2000 to start service. and down the road, if new hardware becomes available, chances are they will be free as well. With the TiVOs you are stuck for live unless you want to pay out of pocket to buy new hardware.


That's like saying "Cigarettes are healthy because I'm only talking about carrying them in your pocket, not smoking them." Why would ANYONE obtain DirecTV hardware unless they were going to *watch* DirecTV? Once you add in the subscription costs, any perceived advantage to the so-called "free" hardware quickly evaporates.

Sure, for a simple 4 room installation, DirecTV will give a new customer free hardware. Of course, so will Verizon. In fact, Verizon never charges anyone anything to get a piece of hardware - they just have a slightly higher additional outlet fee. I've got news for you: *THE CHEAPEST ALTERNATIVE OF ALL WAS TO USE VERIZON'S HARDWARE. * We could have saved an additional $600 the first two years by doing so - with NO upfront costs, just like a new customer to DirecTV. And Verizon DOES support two 6-tuner DVRs with 5 clients in a single installation. But I don't care for the Verizon hardware and I think their storage is too small (and they don't yet support drive expansion on the VMS1100 server - which is the equivalent of a Genie or a Roamio Plus). We chose TiVo because we have had a great experience with them in the past, and should I keep going with Verizon beyond the 2 year boundary then the TiVo option becomes cheaper at month 33 (since I pay no outlet fees).

But we are not a simple 4 room installation. We have 6 TVs spread across 3 levels in our home. We have a daughter that uses a Slingbox in the evenings to watch from school in Boston. I travel a lot for my job and like to be able to bring downloaded recordings with me on my iPad and stream live when I have a good enough WiFi connection.

You keep wanting to talk about hardware, but *the cost of the hardware is irrelevant!*


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

peds48 said:


> Heck I still have 2 HR21s that if I was a customer, they would have been "upgraded" to HR24s long time ago.


Yea that's what you think.
I still have HR23 and HR34, where is my free HR24 and HR44? I know I know, I didn't ask the right way.

Sent from my Galaxy S5


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

Diana C said:


> That's like saying "Cigarettes are healthy because I'm only talking about carrying them in your pocket, not smoking them." Why would ANYONE obtain DirecTV hardware unless they were going to *watch* DirecTV? Once you add in the subscription costs, any perceived advantage to the so-called "free" hardware quickly evaporates.
> 
> Sure, for a simple 4 room installation, DirecTV will give a new customer free hardware. Of course, so will Verizon. In fact, Verizon never charges anyone anything to get a piece of hardware - they just have a slightly higher additional outlet fee. I've got news for you: *THE CHEAPEST ALTERNATIVE OF ALL WAS TO USE VERIZON'S HARDWARE. * We could have saved an additional $600 the first two years by doing so. But I don't care for the Verizon hardware and I think their storage is too small (and they don't yet support drive expansion on the VMS1100 server - which is the equivalent of a Genie or a Roamio Plus). We chose TiVo because we have had a great experience with them in the past, and should I keep going with Verizon beyond the 2 year boundary then the TiVo option becomes cheaper (since I pay no outlet fees).
> 
> ...


Problem is , Peds keeps referring to Tivo as a Provider.
They are not. They are a premium DVR service used in place of your Free subpar equipment that most cable and fiber providers supply.

If I signed up for New service anywhere, I wouldn't pay a Dime , Directv is not exclusive to that.

Tivo is no different the a Directv customer leasing his own HR44 from solid signal

Except, you cancel your Directv service you lost everything. 
You think I left Directv and came back in 2 years I would have the same equipment I have now for free?
No way, I have HR44 and 3 clients, something I don't want.

Sent from my Galaxy S5


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## Pepe Sylvia (May 10, 2010)

I would go with Tivo if I switched to Cable / Fios. I can't get Fios, and Comcast doesn't have the programming choices I prefer. The programming is what's keeping me with Directv. I wish we could get a true Tivo Premiere / Roamio experience with Directv. The THR22 doesn't look like much of an upgrade (software / interface) over my old T60.


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

Pepe Sylvia said:


> I would go with Tivo if I switched to Cable / Fios. I can't get Fios, and Comcast doesn't have the programming choices I prefer. The programming is what's keeping me with Directv. I wish we could get a true Tivo Premiere / Roamio experience with Directv. The THR22 doesn't look like much of an upgrade (software / interface) over my old T60.


 It isn't...it is still back on version 6 of the TiVo software (they're on version 20 in the Roamios). I think the THR22 software even pre-dates the Tivo HD (Series 3 hardware).


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

I got nothing against Directv, but I do have an issue with how they classify and lease their equipment. Always have.

Sent from my Galaxy S5


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

damondlt said:


> Problem is , Peds keeps referring to Tivo as a Provider.
> 
> They are not. *They are a premium* DVR service used in place of your Free subpar equipment that most cable and fiber providers supply.


No I am not.

That is what I have been saying all along! quote from my post below

_While TiVO is a great platform, I can't see myself wasting over $1500 dollars for equipment that would be obsolete in a few years. IN comparison, with DirecTV and some good "haggling" you can always have the latest and greatest for little or no cost._


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

peds48 said:


> IN comparison, with DirecTV and some good "haggling" you can always have the latest and greatest for little or no cost.[/background][/font][/color][/i]


False

Sent from my Galaxy S5


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

damondlt said:


> False
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy S5


you might want to take a look at the thread where folks reported what they have gotten for free. that will prove your "falsehood"


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

peds48 said:


> No I am not.
> 
> That is what I have been saying all along! quote from my post below
> 
> _While TiVO is a great platform, I can't see myself wasting over $1500 dollars for equipment that would be obsolete in a few years. IN comparison, with DirecTV and some good "haggling" you can always have the latest and greatest for little or no cost._


As I said back when you made this post originally: good for you, most DirecTV customers are not so lucky, or as skilled at "haggling" as you are.

Since not everyone can get such deals, they don't exist (talk about hatching chickens).

We have been a DirecTV subscriber since November 2001. We have been on auto bill pay for most of that time. We have always taken the highest level package. We have had multiple DVRs (we go back to the DirecTIVo series 1) for all that time. We adopted HD (and a HR-20) in 2006. Yet, less than 2 years ago, when DirecTV made a change to the guide data that put my last DirecTiVo Series 2 in a perpetual boot loop, and I wanted to replace it with a Genie, the best they could do was a $10 credit for 10 months and I had to pay the $399 up front (they hadn't dropped the price to $299 yet). I begged, I pleaded, I got annoyed, I asked for a supervisor and was transferred to retention (that's where I got the $100 credit spread across 10 months). Oh, and I started a new 2 year commitment that runs out in the fall (by which time we will have emptied our DVRs).

Your optimism regarding the ability of the average user to keep up with DirecTV's latest and greatest is sadly misplaced.

By the way, TiVo averages about 3.5 years between hardware releases, so I won't have a shiny new TiVo to buy for about 3 years.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Diana C said:


> Since not everyone can get such deals, they don't exist (talk about hatching chickens).


Again I direct you to the same place as damonlt. Plus I see this everyday! I do this for a living, so I know what goes on. This is not hearsay, is actually first person experience.....


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Diana C said:


> so I won't have a shiny new TiVo to buy for about 3 years.


seems like you are a year short. TiVo was released almost one year ago

http://pr.tivo.com/press-releases/ohhh-roamio-nasdaq-tivo-1044272


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

Hmmm...the Roamio was released last August, this is June, so that's 10 months ago. I said hardware averages 3.5 years, or 42 months, between releases. So, the Series 6 (if it is ever built) would appear in about 32 months (42 - 10), which in my book qualifies as "about 3 years."


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

peds48 said:


> Again I direct you to the same place as damonlt. Plus I see this everyday! I do this for a living, so I know what goes on. This is not hearsay, is actually first person experience.....


I'm not disputing that you, someone who makes their living off DirecTV, can push the right buttons and/or find a sympathetic ear. But I've been coming to this place for 7 years, not to mention the fact that I ran a place like this for 6 years before that and was a moderator on the first DBS discussion forum ever for 2 years before that, and the most common comments I have read all bemoan the fact that existing customers don't get the free equipment deals that new customers do.

When doing a financial analysis, you can't count on getting a special deal that is only available with the secret handshake and double secret password. You have to base it on published prices and official terms. Otherwise you might be "counting chickens before they are hatched."

At the end of day, this is really simple peds...I ran my numbers for you (HERE), and showed that, without counting on any resale value from the TiVos at all, I come out ahead to the tune of $1033.38 in two years, including recovering the cost of the TiVos. So, for an "investment" of $2,269.98 I get back my original investment, and a profit of $1,033.38. That is a two year return of about 46%.

Now, show me how I can do as well, or better, with DirecTV.


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## anex80 (Jul 29, 2005)

Diana C said:


> ...over $2,400 I have spent on acquiring DirecTV hardware over the years.


I don't understand how you have spent this much in hardware with D*. Granted, I don't have as large of a setup as you, but I've never spent any money on hardware with D*. I started with a HR 24 and H25 and now have an HR44 and 1 mini client. I never threatened to leave or lied about problems, etc, I just called in asking if their were any promotions available regarding a hardware upgrade. One time I had to pay $200 up front but they gave me a $20/month credit over 10 months to make up for it.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

peds48 said:


> Again, I am referring hardware Vs. hardware. the fact is that a new customer signing up for DirecTV today does not have to waste $2000 to start service. and down the road, if new hardware becomes available, chances are they will be free as well. With the TiVOs you are stuck for live unless you want to pay out of pocket to buy new hardware.


Not to jump in the fray here, but what they heck. One thing you're missing entirely is the notion that your equipment is NOT free. I don't care if DirecTV gives it to you with no up-front cost. Once you get that new equipment you are locked into another contract. If you want to believe that's not the equivalent of paying for something, that's fine. Just because they don't charge you up front for it doesn't mean your not paying for it. That's like saying that you got a car for free because you put no money down.


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

anex80 said:


> I don't understand how you have spent this much in hardware with D*. Granted, I don't have as large of a setup as you, but I've never spent any money on hardware with D*. I started with a HR 24 and H25 and now have an HR44 and 1 mini client. I never threatened to leave or lied about problems, etc, I just called in asking if their were any promotions available regarding a hardware upgrade. One time I had to pay $200 up front but they gave me a $20/month credit over 10 months to make up for it.


It's not just size, it is longevity. I started out with 4 Series 1 DirecTIVos (I don't actually remember what they cost, but DirecTV was selling DVRs back then, and I resold all but one of them). Then we had 4 Series 2 DirecTiVos which cost us $200 each (I still have these). These were replaced, one by one, with DirecTV DVRs, again at $200 each. Then the HR34 at $299 (effective), and two H25s at $99 each, and a GenieGo at $149. So, $800.00+800.00+300.00+200.00+150.00 = $2,250 to which I added $150 as a token amount for my very first DirecTV receiver, an RCA DRE420, a CCK, 2 DECA adapters, a few B-Band converters, a SWM-16, etc. If anything, I am estimating low.


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

jpl said:


> Not to jump in the fray here, but what they heck. One thing you're missing entirely is the notion that your equipment is NOT free. I don't care if DirecTV gives it to you with no up-front cost. Once you get that new equipment you are locked into another contract. If you want to believe that's not the equivalent of paying for something, that's fine. Just because they don't charge you up front for it doesn't mean your not paying for it. That's like saying that you got a car for free because you put no money down.


Exactly...it is built into the monthly outlet fees and programming fees. This is why you can't look a hardware in isolation. When you compare the provider's hardware to TiVo you are comparing apples and oranges.

As I mentioned earlier, if one were to take the Verizon hardware, then the monthly savings realized with FiOS versus DirecTV is $60/month while the 24 month discounts are in effect and $15/month thereafter. My dislike for the Verizon DVRs made the extra cost acceptable, until I read about TiVo Roamios and ran the numbers using a purchase model.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Diana C said:


> I'm not disputing that you, someone who makes their living off DirecTV, can push the right buttons and/or find a sympathetic ear.


I am not pushing any magic buttons, nor I am talking on anyone's behalf, I am installing the equipment that many, many customers are getting free of charge every day.

You seem to be in love with TiVO as you dragged this thread to over 11 pages just because I said I would not waste over $1500 in hardware that I get free by subscribing DirecTV, and that by staying with DirecTV I can get the latest and greatest every few years without having to waste any more money by having to pay out pocket for the hardware.

Just to be clear, I never criticized the fact that you are leaving DirecTV, it does not matter one way or the other, matter fact, I wish that you enjoy your new hardware.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

anex80 said:


> I don't understand how you have spent this much in hardware with D*. Granted, I don't have as large of a setup as you, but I've never spent any money on hardware with D*. I started with a HR 24 and H25 and now have an HR44 and 1 mini client. I never threatened to leave or lied about problems, etc, I just called in asking if their were any promotions available regarding a hardware upgrade. One time I had to pay $200 up front but they gave me a $20/month credit over 10 months to make up for it.


Exactly my point.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

jpl said:


> Not to jump in the fray here, but what they heck. One thing you're missing entirely is the notion that your equipment is NOT free. I don't care if DirecTV gives it to you with no up-front cost. Once you get that new equipment you are locked into another contract. If you want to believe that's not the equivalent of paying for something, that's fine. Just because they don't charge you up front for it doesn't mean your not paying for it. That's like saying that you got a car for free because you put no money down.


with DirecTV you have two options, paying the full lease price PLUS a 2 year commitment or get it FREE plus a two year commitment. Since both options require a two year commitment, I tend to believe that the equipment id free.


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

peds48 said:


> I am not pushing any magic buttons, nor I am talking on anyone's behalf, I am installing the equipment that many, many customers are getting free of charge every day.
> 
> You seem to be in love with TiVO as you dragged this thread to over 11 pages just because I said I would not waste over $1500 in hardware that I get free by subscribing DirecTV, and that by staying with DirecTV I can get the latest and greatest every few years without having to waste any more money by having to pay out pocket for the hardware.
> 
> Just to be clear, I never criticized the fact that you are leaving DirecTV, it does not matter one way or the other, matter fact, I wish that you enjoy your new hardware.


No, I like TiVo, I'm not in love with it. You "dragged this thread to 11 pages" just as much as anyone else. There are several pages where I didn't make a post, but you did. You are obviously even more devoted to DirecTV than I am to TiVo or else you would accept the simple fact that, in a situation like mine, DirecTV's value proposition is very suspect.

You have repeatedly focused on hardware, since it allows you to claim that no one should ever have to pay for DirecTV and that any money spent on TiVo DVRs is "wasted" money. Yet I have repeatedly said that what drove this decision was *NOT HARDWARE ALONE* but the entire cost/benefit ratio of DirecTV versus a FiOS/TiVo combination.

I'll close this out by asking you a simple question, and let's see if you can answer it honestly:

Why would I waste $100/month paying DirecTV nearly $200 for TV service when I can get the same level of service for half the price from Verizon FiOS? (And that is without factoring in the $45/month new subscriber discounts that run for the first 24 months.)


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## 242424 (Mar 22, 2012)

peds48 said:


> I do this for a living, so I know what goes on.


Not for long. Remember you're outta here when AT&T takes over.



> ain't happening, but if it did, I would drop them like a hot potato and find me another job along the way!


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

242424 said:


> Not for long. Remember you're outta here when AT&T takes over.


 :rotfl:


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

242424 said:


> Not for long. Remember you're outta here when AT&T takes over.


Correct, luckily I still have another 3 years (after the whole shebang goes through) to look for something better. I will never wear an ATT uniform.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Diana C said:


> .
> 
> You have repeatedly focused on hardware,


Yep, Because that is what the $1500 bought you


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Diana C said:


> Why would I waste $100/month paying DirecTV nearly $200 for TV service when I can get the same level of service for half the price from Verizon FiOS? (And that is without factoring in the $45/month new subscriber discounts that run for the first 24 months.)


When I have said you should stay with DirecTV? what ever floats your boat


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

peds48 said:


> Yep, Because that is what the $1500 bought you


What $1500 are you talking about?


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Diana C said:


> What $1500 are you talking about?


Never mind.... you forgot


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

peds48 said:


> When I have said you should stay with DirecTV? what ever floats your boat


This is the point you fail to grasp: the hardware only exists so one can access the service. Hardware, be it a TiVo or Genie or a Hopper, is only useful if it will deliver the content you desire. It is all driven by content.

I'm sure you are a nice young man, but you need to understand that when you infer that someone is "wasting" money, that is a criticism.


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

peds48 said:


> Never mind.... you forgot


No, I didn't.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Diana C said:


> It isn't...it is still back on version 6 of the TiVo software (they're on version 20 in the Roamios). I think the THR22 software even pre-dates the Tivo HD (Series 3 hardware).


Other than season passes and guide filters, I'm not sure there is anything I care about that has been gained between version 9 and version 20 of the Tivo software. I can't remember what version 6 was like to know if there's anything else I'd lose, but they've managed to make the slowest software transition in history to HD menus which STILL isn't done. They've added a bunch of apps I don't use, and the capability to deliver ads that I don't want to see.

With the addition of season passes, I probably wouldn't care all that much if that THR22 software replaced my Premiere's software


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

peds48 said:


> _While TiVO is a great platform, I can't see myself wasting over $1500 dollars for equipment that would be obsolete in a few years. IN comparison, with DirecTV and some good "haggling" you can always have the latest and greatest for little or no cost._


How do you figure the equipment would be obsolete in a few years? I've got a Tivo Premiere, which was replaced a bit less than a year ago by the Roamio series that Diana has. I've looked at the specs, and been offered some pretty good deals by Tivo, but I haven't been interested because the Roamio doesn't provide me anything I want that I don't already get with my Premiere. The only new capability it offers that wasn't possible with Premiere is that the maximum tuners went from 4 to 6, and it is faster and comes with a bigger drive.

The "faster" entices me a bit, but not enough to upgrade. Slow is relative - I get frustrated with my Premiere sometimes, but when I saw an HR44 in action, something people here seem to think is fast, I couldn't believe how sluggish it was. I mean I know what slow is, I have a crapload of H20s after all, as well as some H24s that are "faster" but still perform terribly. After seeing that HR44 (along with seeing my dad's cable company DVR) my Premiere seems a lot faster! 

The only time Tivo hardware has really become obsolete in my mind was when cable went from analog to digital, and the old analog only Series 1 and Series 2 were obsoleted (though still technically usable with the IR blaster changing channels on a cable box)

Perhaps you have a funny definition of obsolete, and whenever anything newer comes along then the old is obsolete. Was the HR20 obsolete the day the HR21 appeared, the HR34 obsolete when the HR44 made its appearance? If not, it is hard to argue that the Premiere is obsolete, and by extension that the Roamio will be obsolete in three years or so when the next generation Tivo is released.

That Series 6 Tivo will have "more" of everything, but unless it offers some new desirable functionality that you can't get with the Roamio, Diana will have no more reason to upgrade her Roamios to Series 6 than I have had to upgrade my Premiere to Roamio. Even if it does offer something she wants, her Roamios would hardly become obsolete, any more than the HR24 become obsolete when the Genie was introduced - the ability to have clients is enticing a lot of people, but others (like Rich, for instance) aren't interested in so the HR24 was hardly obsoleted by the Genie, the best one could say is that it was "improved upon".

Despite my Premiere perhaps being "obsolete" under your definition, I could sell it on Ebay tomorrow for $250-$300. Not bad since I bought it over four years ago for $440 (including a $40 three year warranty which it turns out I never needed) When I can recover 50-70% of my original cost I don't think of something as being obsolete. That's quite comparable to how well a car holds its resale value. It is hard to find any CE product that holds its value so well. Apple products are known for holding their resale value very well, but don't hold it as well as a Tivo.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Diana C said:


> I'm sure you are a nice young man, but you need to understand that when you infer that someone is "wasting" money, that is a criticism.


See, but that is where you got it wrong, I said I (meaning me or myself) would not waste money on TiVOS. I never said you were wasting your money, if your thought that my comment was aimed at you, well that's on you. I just gave my personal opinion that you seemed to have taken to heart or very personal. So now I can see where this all started

_I can't see myself wasting over $1500 dollars for equipment that would be obsolete in a few years_


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## 242424 (Mar 22, 2012)

peds48 said:


> Correct, luckily I still have another 3 years (after the whole shebang goes through) to look for something better. I will never wear an ATT uniform.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

slice1900 said:


> How do you figure the equipment would be obsolete in a few years?


You are right! I probably should not have used "obsolete" But there are certain things that must be upgraded every so often or we fall behind technology. DVRs is one of them. these machines get faster over time, get more feature rich and if we dont keep up eventually they will be obsoleted. With TiVO that would mean wasting money out of my pocket to upgrade, with DirecTV is just a phone call away


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

242424 said:


>


My Uniform still says DirecTV on it. and the acquisition has not been through regulators yet, so what is the point?

back to topic.

:backtotop


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

slice1900 said:


> How do you figure the equipment would be obsolete in a few years?.


This is, of course, very true. Peds makes his living from DirecTV hardware, so I guess it is natural that he focus on the constant upgrade treadmill. We got our first HR back in late 2006, IIRC, and we had it until the hard drive died in 2011 (actually, I still have it, DirecTV didn't want it back). But, even at 5 years old, it did everything an brand new HR24 does, as do all the HR20s, 21s, 22s and 23s out there. The same goes for TiVo. Over at TCF there are LOTS of folks with Series 3 and 4 (Premiere) DVRs, even a surprising number of Series 2 users. Our last Series 2 DirecTIVo was over 9 years old when the DirecTV guide data changes killed it.

The reality is that the evolution of DVRs is mostly software based. For example, TiVo introduced the Mini as a client to the 4 tuner Premieres, but you had to dedicate a tuner to Mini...the allocation was not dynamic. When they introduced the Roamio they also introduced dynamic tuner allocation, but a software update added it to the Premiere as well.

I smiled when you mentioned performance. I don't own an HR44, but I do have 2 HR24s and 2 H25s, both considered to be "fast" in the DirecTV world of hardware. Both are noticeably slower than both the TiVo DVR and the Mini (and the TiVo users complain that the Mini is too slow!!).

So, you are quite correct...even if TiVo introduces a Series 6 platform in around 3 years, and it is quite possible that it will be much longer since they shut down their in-house hardware engineering unit, I don't expect that I'll be dying to have it.

TiVo is at an inflection point. They are starting to get some traction with cable operators offering TiVo as an option to their customers, and they are hard at work converting the software to run in the cloud. I think it is pretty clear that they can't survive as a purely retail CE vendor. The only thing that has kept them alive is the huge settlement they got from Echostar and the ensuing royalty payments they are collecting from all the other DVR manufacturers. They are leveraging that windfall to do some very smart things. If they stay on track, I think their future is very bright. If not....well, they have enough money to stay afloat for at least 5 years.


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

peds48 said:


> See, but that is where you got it wrong, I said I (meaning me or myself) would not waste money on TiVOS. I never said you were wasting your money, if your thought that my comment was aimed at you, well that's on you. I just gave my personal opinion that you seemed to have taken to heart or very personal. So now I can see where this all started
> 
> _I can't see myself wasting over $1500 dollars for equipment that would be obsolete in a few years_


Do you know what the word "infer" means?


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Diana C said:


> Do you know what the word "infer" means?


If the shoe fits.....


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Diana C said:


> TiVo is at an inflection point. They are starting to get some traction with cable operators offering TiVo as an option to their customers, and they are hard at work converting the software to run in the cloud. I think it is pretty clear that they can't survive as a purely retail CE vendor. The only thing that has kept them alive is the huge settlement they got from Echostar and the ensuing royalty payments they are collecting from all the other DVR manufacturers. They are leveraging that windfall to do some very smart things. If they stay on track, I think their future is very bright. If not....well, they have enough money to stay afloat for at least 5 years.


I agree that a cloud TiVo is the next logical step. I'm having difficulty imagining what the business model would look like for customers dealing directly with their cableco and TiVo simultaneously. Especially where data caps may be enforced.

I do see how TiVo can be a cloud DVR OEM for a company offering their own triple play, like FiOS or Cablevision.


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## PK6301 (May 16, 2012)

The whole Crux ( Heart, Core) of this tread is:

1. Diane has made the decision to drop Directv and go with FIOS/TIVO
2. Some people Agree with her, some do not
3. There is a whole lot of snipping going on.

Lets just drop this tread and lock it away....

One other question I have is... Diana have you gotten your new setup yet and made these grandiose changes?


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

peds48 said:


> You are right! I probably should not have used "obsolete" But there are certain things that must be upgraded every so often or we fall behind technology. DVRs is one of them. these machines get faster over time, *get more feature rich* and if we dont keep up eventually they will be obsoleted. With TiVO that would mean wasting money out of my pocket to upgrade, with DirecTV is just a phone call away


I'm curious...can you enumerate the rich set of features that one would get in a HR24 versus a HR20? As I recall, you'd actually give up a hardware feature (OTA tuners) and only gain built-in DECA and B-band converters.


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

PK6301 said:


> ...One other question I have is... Diana have you gotten your new setup yet and made these grandiose changes?


Yes, I got the TiVos on May 29th and had FiOS TV activated on June 2nd. So we've been up and running for 10 days. I have pulled from service both H25s, one HR21, the CCK (I'm using the Genie to bridge Ethernet and coax) and the GenieGo. Using the coax that runs in from near the ONT to the utility room (there from when we had Cablevision internet service) the FiOS installer placed an 8way splitter, which in turn is connected to the second coax run that goes to each viewing location (leftover from the pre-SWiM days). I am using one of the Roamios to bridge Ethernet to MOCA. I recreated all of our season passes on the TiVo last weekend, so we are no longer recording on the DirecTV DVRs. We will start deactivating and returning receivers at the end of the month, when our 30 refund period expires with TiVo and FiOS.


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

Steve said:


> I agree that a cloud TiVo is the next logical step. I'm having difficulty imagining what the business model would look like for customers dealing directly with their cableco and TiVo simultaneously. Especially where data caps may be enforced.
> 
> I do see how TiVo can be a cloud DVR OEM for a company offering their own triple play, like FiOS or Cablevision.


I don't think TiVo sees the cloud DVR as an end user offering. I think they are trying to offer a turnkey solution for cable providers. TiVo has developed some good relationships in the cable industry and they (the cable cos) are beginning to see TiVo as a potential partner, not a competitor. I actually believe that at least part of the motivation for including streaming apps on the TiVo platform was to show the cable guys that they can support IP delivery (the wave of the future for VOD/PPV, and maybe for all TV content eventually).


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

peds48 said:


> If the shoe fits.....


Okay...I'm not interested in sniping with you. I wish you well in your job search, but I would gently suggest that you give AT&T a chance. You never know, you might find that they make DirecTV better - stranger things have happened.

Have a good life.


----------



## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

Diana C said:


> Hmmm...the Roamio was released last August, this is June, so that's 10 months ago. I said hardware averages 3.5 years, or 42 months, between releases. So, the Series 6 (if it is ever built) would appear in about 32 months (42 - 10), which in my book qualifies as "about 3 years."


I don't think anyone knows what to expect from TiVo. Earlier this year, they laid off most of their industrial design team. This article speculates that TiVo may have realized that there's little growth left in their settop business, and will be focusing their future efforts elsewhere, such as in a cloud DVR solution.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

They are also expanding to smaller cable companies. Our local Blue Ridge Cable will offer T6 models, as well as tivo support for the Roamios. 

Sent from my Galaxy S5


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

Reaper said:


> I don't think anyone knows what to expect from TiVo. Earlier this year, they laid off most of their industrial design team. This article speculates that TiVo may have realized that there's little growth left in their settop business, and will be focusing their future efforts elsewhere, such as in a cloud DVR solution.


Yup, I alluded to this myself earlier. Personally, I think there will be a Series 6, but it will be designed as an OEM product, not a retail device. TiVo could finally be succesful in their quest to become an alternative to Motorola or SciAtl (or a software supplier to them). They clearly see that their long term success rests in the OEM market in some fashion, and it will be interesting to see how this plays out over the next few years. Interestingly, their direct subscriptions are growing again, so the Roamio seems to have hit a sweet spot in the market.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

Diana C said:


> Yup, I alluded to this myself earlier. Personally, I think there will be a Series 6, but it will be designed as an OEM product, not a retail device. TiVo could finally be succesful in their quest to become an alternative to Motorola or SciAtl (or a software supplier to them). They clearly see that their long term success rests in the OEM market in some fashion, and it will be interesting to see how this plays out over the next few years. * Interestingly, their direct subscriptions are growing again, so the Roamio seems to have hit a sweet spot in the market.*


I think the sharp increases in the cost to the end users of Pay TV is spurring ways to get out of the high prices and this appears to be one of them.


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## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

jimmie57 said:


> I think the sharp increases in the cost to the end users of Pay TV is spurring ways to get out of the high prices and this appears to be one of them.


This is part of it, sure - but the Roamio is a well-regarded unit, and that certainly can't hurt.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Diana C said:


> I'm curious...can you enumerate the rich set of features that one would get in a HR24 versus a HR20? As I recall, you'd actually give up a hardware feature (OTA tuners) and only gain built-in DECA and B-band converters.


I name a few, 3D and voice over control


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Diana C said:


> Okay...I'm not interested in sniping with you. I wish you well in your job search, but I would gently suggest that you give AT&T a chance. You never know, you might find that they make DirecTV better - stranger things have happened.
> 
> Have a good life.


I appreciate your warm wishes and suggestions. Regarding my job and relationship with AT&T, the screwed so much that A) I am not giving them any money out of my pocket and B. I am not making them any money by working for them.

To wrap this up, hopefully you understand that this was not an attack on your changing to FiOS or any decision that you made to get there. it was just plainly my opinion on how I spend my hard earn cash. again, nothing against you. dont let this tar our forum "relationship" wishing you the best.... :goodjob:


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Reaper said:


> This is part of it, sure - but the Roamio is a well-regarded unit, and that certainly can't hurt.


How is the TiVO a way to cut the cord, if it still requires the "cord"


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

peds48 said:


> How is the TiVO a way to cut the cord, if it still requires the "cord"


The Roamio 4-tuner OTA/internet box is a good start for cord cutters.


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## Bill Broderick (Aug 25, 2006)

peds48 said:


> How is the TiVO a way to cut the cord, if it still requires the "cord"


You misread the post to which he was responding. It mentioned cutting the "cost", not the "cord".


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Bill Broderick said:


> You misread the post to which he was responding. It mentioned cutting the "cost", not the "cord".


How are you going to cut the cost without cutting the cord?


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Steve said:


> The Roamio 4-tuner OTA/internet box is a good start for cord cutters.


That makes sense


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

peds48 said:


> with DirecTV you have two options, paying the full lease price PLUS a 2 year commitment or get it FREE plus a two year commitment. Since both options require a two year commitment, I tend to believe that the equipment id free.


Then you are mistaken. Even if DirecTV doesn't charge you anything up front for the equipment, you're STILL paying for it because you're locked into a contract. Granted, you're paying less, overall, if you don't have an up-front fee, but you're still paying. I also dispute the notion that DirecTV just hands out equipment with no up-front costs to existing customers. Why do you think I left DirecTV for FiOS 7 years ago? The sticking point for me? I wanted an HD DVR, and DirecTV wanted to charge me $320 up front to lease an HD DVR. I told them that if they couldn't come down from that I was going to search elsewhere. They told me 'sorry... that's the price.' I tried a couple times, and each time I got the exact same response. So I made good on my threat. AFTER I left they were willing to deal. It was too late at that point, and they lost a customer.

One more point in all this - and I'm not trying to dog-pile on you. You keep focusing on the cost of the equipment. That's only part of the picture. Let's say you have options to go with 2 different providers. Let's assume both services have the exact same channels, and features, just to make things easier to compare.

Company 1 offers you a monthly charge of $100. Let's say $50 of that is equipment and $50 is for the service.

Company 2 says 'hell, we can beat that! We'll only charge you $1/month for equipment...' But the total charge per month is say $200.

Which is the better deal? That's exactly what the OP has been trying to explain to you. Forget the cost of the TiVo. Even if it goes totally belly up in 2 years, and she gets nothing back on it, at the end of 2 years she will have saved over $1000. It doesn't matter that she's paying a ton more for equipment than what she could with DirecTV. The TOTAL COST is what matters. Who the hell cares what the cost of the equipment is - by itself it's a meaningless number. I care about my total bill. That's what she's been trying to tell you. It doesn't matter that she spent so much on the TiVo set-up. She will save a ton of money overall over the next two years. And she would still come out ahead even if she got all her latest DirecTV equipment with no money up front.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

jpl said:


> Then you are mistaken. Even if DirecTV doesn't charge you anything up front for the equipment, you're STILL paying for it because you're locked into a contract. *Granted, you're paying less, overall, if you don't have an up-front fee, but you're still paying*.


Same applies to the TiVO, there is a monthly fee (for programming). So If a get a Genie without putting a penny out my pocket, then in my book is free.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

jpl said:


> I also dispute the notion that DirecTV just hands out equipment with no up-front costs to existing customers. Why do you think I left DirecTV for FiOS 7 years ago? The sticking point for me?


lots have changed in the last seven years. DirecTV realized that is time to take care of the existing customers and this can be seen by the vast amount of Genies being installed free of charge today


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

peds48 said:


> How are you going to cut the cost without cutting the cord?


Umm, if provider A charges $150/month, and provider B charges $75/month, for pretty much the same content, that's cutting the cost, isn't it? That sort of savings is common with bundling deals, where someone who has separate TV and internet can end up spending far less by bundling.

Directv and Dish have a hard time competing with bundling deals because they don't offer internet or cellular and can't bundle. Yeah, I know you can get a token $5 savings by "bundling" with Centurylink or whatever, but that savings is a joke compared to what you get when you go with one provider for multiple services.

Presumably this situation will improve once AT&T assumes ownership of Directv.


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## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

peds48 said:


> How is the TiVO a way to cut the cord, if it still requires the "cord"


I'm not sure that I follow you peds, because my post wasn't about cutting the cord.

I try to be clear by using, "cutting the pay TV cord". I do this because most folks will still want Internet service from their telco or cable company.

However, the base TiVo Roamio sports an OTA tuner, so it could be used to cut the pay TV cord.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

jpl said:


> One more point in all this - and I'm not trying to dog-pile on you. You keep focusing on the cost of the equipment. That's only part of the picture. Let's say you have options to go with 2 different providers. Let's assume both services have the exact same channels, and features, just to make things easier to compare.
> 
> Company 1 offers you a monthly charge of $100. Let's say $50 of that is equipment and $50 is for the service.
> 
> ...


your example would only makes sense like this

Company 1 offers you a monthly charge of $100. Let's say $1500 of that is equipment and $50 is for the service.

Company 2 says 'hell, we can beat that! We'll only charge you $1/month for equipment...' But the total charge per month is say $200.

Realize that not everyone can afford to waste over $2000 just to watch TV in one sitting


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

slice1900 said:


> Umm, if provider A charges $150/month, and provider B charges $75/month,


you are taking my quote out of context


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## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

peds48 said:


> lots have changed in the last seven years. DirecTV realized that is time to take care of the existing customers and this can be seen by the vast amount of Genies being installed free of charge today


Here's the thing peds, and it's been said before but bears repeating: nothing is free. DirecTV is profit-motivated. Whatever equipment they don't charge you for upfront they will make their costs + margin back from you over the 2-year life of your contract. If it were truly free as you claim, I could just order some Genies and flip them on eBay, because there would be no contract required. So please, do us all a favor, and stop beating the "but the DirecTV equipment is free" drum.

Obviously, if you're in the DirecTV equipment business, then this is personal to you. To me, it's just TV.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Reaper said:


> I'm not sure that I follow you peds, because my post wasn't about cutting the cord.
> 
> I try to be clear by using, "cutting the pay TV cord". I do this because most folks will still want Internet service from their telco.
> 
> However, the base TiVo Roamio sports an OTA tuner, so it could be used to cut the pay TV cord.


I was responding to this comment



Diana C said:


> * Interestingly, their direct subscriptions are growing again, so the Roamio seems to have hit a sweet spot in the market.*


I think the sharp increases in the cost to the end users of Pay TV is spurring ways to get out of the high prices and this appears to be one of them.


----------



## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

peds48 said:


> your example would only makes sense like this
> 
> Company 1 offers you a monthly charge of $100. Let's say $1500 of that is equipment and $50 is for the service.
> 
> ...


There you go with the "waste" again. Spend, not waste - THERE IS A DIFFERENCE. If one were wasting money, one would get nothing in return.


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## bidger (Nov 19, 2005)

"The the troublemakers", Must be your credo.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Reaper said:


> Here's the thing peds, and it's been said before but bears repeating: nothing is free. DirecTV is profit-motivated. Whatever equipment they don't charge you for upfront they will make their costs + margin back from you over the 2-year life of your contract. If it were truly free as you claim, I could just order some up and flip it on eBay, because there would be no contract required. So please, do us all a favor, and stop beating the "but the DirecTV equipment is free" drum.
> 
> Obviously, if you're in the DirecTV equipment business, then this is personal to you. To me, it's just TV.


nothing personal. I can careless about DirecTV, it is my opinion. Is free as long as you are a paying customer. with tivo you (have?) to be a paying customer and pay over $2000 (in this case) to get the equipment. with DirecTV and or Dish you just give them a call to set up an installation appointment get 4 TVs install without paying a penny, that in my books is free. or can go the other way and order from solid signal and pay full lease price for the equipment,


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## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

peds48 said:


> I was responding to this comment
> 
> I think the sharp increases in the cost to the end users of Pay TV is spurring ways to get out of the high prices and this appears to be one of them.


Well, as I said, TiVo doesn't have to be used with cable/telco. Some units, like the base Roamio, can be used with free OTA.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Reaper said:


> There you go with the "waste" again. Spend, not waste - THERE IS A DIFFERENCE. If one were wasting money, one would get nothing in return.


as most as it bothers you, in my book is not an investment but a waste when I could get the same without paying over $2000.00


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Reaper said:


> Well, as I said, TiVo doesn't have to be used with cable/telco. Some units, like the base Roamio, can be used with free OTA.


So does my PC or even my TV!


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## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

peds48 said:


> nothing personal. I can careless about DirecTV, it is my opinion. Is free as long as you are a paying customer. with tivo you (have?) to be a paying customer and pay over $2000 (in this case) to get the equipment. with DirecTV and or Dish you just give them a call to set up an installation appointment get 4 TVs install without paying a penny, that in my books is free. or can go the other way and order from solid signal and pay full lease price for the equipment,


"Free with a two-year contract."

It's just like with phones. Let's say a handset retails for $499, and you get one for $99 with a two-year contract. The balance of $400 is simply spread over 24 months (though the bill doesn't clearly reflect this). The cell phone company doesn't take a loss on the equipment, and neither does DirecTV.


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## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

peds48 said:


> So does my PC or even my TV!


You asked how a TiVo could be used to "cut the cord". Apparently you didn't like the answer.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Reaper said:


> "Free with a two-year contract."
> 
> It's just like with phones. Let's say a handset retails for $499, and you get one for $99 with a two-year contract. The balance of $400 is simply spread over 24 months (though the bill doesn't clearly reflect this). The cell phone company doesn't take a loss on the equipment, and neither does DirecTV.


I found that comparing prices with cell companies with DirecTV while they look the same they are not. the DirecTV prices are they same whether you pay full price for the receiver or not. So if the monthly bill is $100 and I get a Genie without paying nothing, I consider that free. on the other hand, if my bill is $100 and I had to pay $300 for the Genie, then that would not be free. the bill is still the same, there fore the equipment is free!


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Reaper said:


> You asked how a TiVo could be used to "cut the cord". Apparently you didn't like the answer.


See post #265 before jumping to conclusions


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## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

peds48 said:


> as most as it bothers you, in my book is not an investment but a waste when I could get the same without paying over $2000.00


I didn't say investment, I wrote "spend", as in purchase.

If I buy TiVos and decide to ditch TV altogether a few months later, I can sell the TiVos on eBay and recoup some of my costs. Can I do that with DirecTV DVRs?

Apples and oranges.


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## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

peds48 said:


> I found that comparing prices with cell companies with DirecTV while they look the same they are not. the DirecTV prices are they same whether you pay full price for the receiver or not. So if the monthly bill is $100 and I get a Genie without paying nothing, I consider that free. on the other hand, if my bill is $100 and I had to pay $300 for the Genie, then that would not be free. the bill is still the same, there fore the equipment is free!


This is true of phone companies too. The costs of doing business, including "free" or subsidized equipment, are spread over the customer base.


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## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

peds48 said:


> See post #265 before jumping to conclusions


Ah, so someone already answered your "cord cutting" question. I understand now.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Reaper said:


> This is true of phone companies too. The costs of doing business are spread over the customer base.


but the bill is the same, so is free, agree?


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Reaper said:


> Ah, so someone already answered your "cord cutting" question. I understand now.


Exactly !


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

peds48 said:


> your example would only makes sense like this
> 
> Company 1 offers you a monthly charge of $100. Let's say $1500 of that is equipment and $50 is for the service.
> 
> ...


How does your modification make sense in light of what the OP is doing? So, she's prepaying for equipment. So what? At the end of 2 years she will have saved alot of money! Again, what difference does it make how much she's paying for the TiVo setup? What matters is the total cost. Yes, she's paying alot more up front, but so what? After 2 years she will have payed a lot less overall. The point of my example was simply this - the equipment cost by itself is utterly meaningless. You seem to be so focused on the price of the equipment that you're losing sight of the fact that if she stayed with DirecTV, and even if she paid nothing up front for the equipment, at the end of the day, she would pay more to stay with DirecTV. I'm not sure why this is so hard to grasp.


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## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

peds48 said:


> but the bill is the same, so is free, agree?


It would only be truly free if you weren't locked into a contract.


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## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

jpl said:


> How does your modification make sense in light of what the OP is doing? So, she's prepaying for equipment. So what? At the end of 2 years she will have saved alot of money!


+1

Not to mention that she would still have assets in the form of the equipment, which she could then re-sell if she wanted too.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

BTW, let's use your example... just for fun. For company 1, your total cost after 2 years:

$100/month for sevice * 24 months = $2400 + $1500 for equipment = $3900.

For company #2:

$200/month * 24 months = $4800

So... which is the better deal, again?


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

jpl said:


> BTW, let's use your example... just for fun. For company 1, your total cost after 2 years:
> 
> $100/month for sevice * 24 months = $2400 + $1500 for equipment = $3900.
> 
> ...


Since we are throwing "what ifs"

Company #1
$100/month for sevice * 24 months = $2400 + $1500 for equipment = $3900. + $1500 on equipment upgrades = $5400

 Company #2
$200/month * 24 months = $4800 with free upgrades BEST DEAL


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

I'm simply pointing out the fallacy of your argument. Ok, you can come up with some numbers that make it more sensible to stay with DirecTV, but that's not reality. As for the fact that the OP is paying up front but not everyone can... that's true. But the OP can. So, she decided to do that. So what? Besides, that's not what you've been arguing all along. You've been arguing that it's a waste of money to do what she did. I'm simply pointing out that she's spending LESS money by doing what she's doing.

Besides, even if she were paying more. So what? It's her decision. This is what works for her. Why does anyone need to justify the set-up they go for? She shouldn't have to, anymore than you should have to justify staying with DirecTV.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

jpl said:


> Besides, even if she were paying more. So what? It's her decision. This is what works for her. Why does anyone need to justify the set-up they go for? She shouldn't have to, anymore than you should have to justify staying with DirecTV.


see my posts where I never, ever judged Diana for doing what she is doing, in fact I wished her well. Everything started because I said " I (meaning myself, me) would not waste over $1500 on TiVO equipment" and that still stands!!!


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

jpl said:


> I'm simply pointing out the fallacy of your argument. Ok, you can come up with some numbers that make it more sensible to stay with DirecTV, but that's not reality.


and you can come with yours as well...


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## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

peds48 said:


> see my posts where I never, ever judged Diana for doing what she is doing, in fact I wished her well. Everything started because I said " I (meaning myself, me) would not waste over $1500 on TiVO equipment" and that still stands!!!


Perhaps it's because "waste" is a value judgement. If you had used the more appropriate term "spend", we all would have gotten far less entertainment value out of this thread.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

peds48 said:


> and you can come with yours as well...


But my example was a reflection of reality! That's the difference. I was trying to use a hypothetical to demonstrate the deal that the OP actually got. As for you not judging her - you've claimed repeatedly that she's wasting money. If that's not a judgement, then the word has no meaning.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

jpl said:


> But my example was a reflection of reality! That's the difference. I was trying to use a hypothetical to demonstrate the deal that the OP actually got. As for you not judging her -* you've claimed repeatedly that she's wasting money. If that's not a judgement, then the word has no meaning.*


Where???? link please?


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Reaper said:


> Perhaps it's because "waste" is a value judgement. If you had used the more appropriate term "spend", we all would have gotten far less entertainment value out of this thread.


and that how I value things. that is my PERSONAL opinion and we are all entitled to one!


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## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

peds48 said:


> and that how I value things. that is my PERSONAL opinion and we are all entitled to one!


Well, you said that you didn't judge the OP -- except that you did. And repeatedly at that.


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## Bill Broderick (Aug 25, 2006)

peds48 said:


> How are you going to cut the cost without cutting the cord?


Because, as an existing FiOS phone & Internet customer, adding TV to that account would be far less expensive than DirecTV and by purchasing Tivo's with lifetime service, over time, by not having to pay mirroring/lease fees, DVR fees and Whole Home DVR fees, over time I would pay less in the long run than continuing with the lease model, with monthly fees and higher cost programming at DirecTV.

Diana showed exactly how the cost of her upfront purchase of Tivo equipment would be paid back in less than 2 years with the savings that she would attain from lower cost programing and the elimination of lease, DVR, Whole Home and HD fees.


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## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

Bill Broderick said:


> Because, as an existing FiOS phone & Internet customer, adding TV to that account would be far less expensive than DirecTV and by purchasing Tivo's with lifetime service, over time, by not having to pay mirroring/lease fees, DVR fees and Whole Home DVR fees, over time I would pay less in the long run than continuing with the lease model, with monthly fees and higher cost programming at DirecTV.
> 
> Diana showed exactly how the cost of her upfront purchase of Tivo equipment would be paid back in less than 2 years with the savings that she would attain from lower cost programing and the elimination of lease, DVR, Whole Home and HD fees.


To be fair, this doesn't qualify as cutting the cord. That would be doing away with pay TV altogether.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Reaper said:


> Well, you said that you didn't judge the OP -- except that you did. And repeatedly at that.


where? links please? expressing my personal opinion is not judging the OP.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Reaper said:


> To be fair, this doesn't qualify as cutting the cord. That would be doing away with pay TV altogether.


Wow, we agree on something. Hell must be freezing over !!!!!!


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Bill Broderick said:


> Because, as an existing FiOS phone & Internet customer, adding TV to that account would be far less expensive than DirecTV and by purchasing Tivo's with lifetime service, over time, by not having to pay mirroring/lease fees, DVR fees and Whole Home DVR fees, over time I would pay less in the long run than continuing with the lease model, with monthly fees and higher cost programming at DirecTV.
> 
> Diana showed exactly how the cost of her upfront purchase of Tivo equipment would be paid back in less than 2 years with the savings that she would attain from lower cost programing and the elimination of lease, DVR, Whole Home and HD fees.


But you are still paying for TV service. that is NOT cutting the cord.


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## Bill Broderick (Aug 25, 2006)

peds48 said:


> where? links please? expressing my personal opinion is not judging the OP.


Come on peds, you're smarter than that. If I were to write something like "I'd have to be a moron to work for Mastec". Don't you think that you'd read that statement and think, "Hey, I work for Mastec. He just called me a moron."?

You'd be right to think that. Because that, without qualifying why I think I'd have to be a moron to work for Mastec, the statement clearly says that I think that anyone would have to be a moron to work at Mastec. On the other hand, if I wrote something like "I know the supervisor at Mastec and he hates me. I'd have to be a moron to work for Mastec." It would be pretty clear that I wasn't implying anything or being judgmental of Mastec employees at all.

Had you written something like "I need that money to pay the mortgage or clothe my child, so I'm not going to waste it on Tivo equipment" that would have been different. But you didn't. You wrote an unqualified statement saying you wouldn't waste your money on Tivo equipment, which came across as judgmental, regardless of your intention.


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## Bill Broderick (Aug 25, 2006)

Reaper said:


> To be fair, this doesn't qualify as cutting the cord. That would be doing away with pay TV altogether.


No kidding. He asked "How do you cut the cost *without* cutting the cord". That was the answer to that specific question.


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## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

peds48 said:


> where? links please? expressing my personal opinion is not judging the OP.


When you say that you would not "waste" money as the OP did, you are making a judgement. It's not rocket science dude.


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## Bill Broderick (Aug 25, 2006)

peds48 said:


> How are you going to cut the cost without cutting the cord?





peds48 said:


> But you are still paying for TV service. that is NOT cutting the cord.


My example was giving an example of cutting costs *without* cutting the cord. You asked the question, not me.


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## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

Bill Broderick said:


> No kidding. He asked "How do you cut the cost *without* cutting the cord". That was the answer to that specific question.


You're right. I didn't read the quote you were replying to carefully enough. Apologies.

And, happily, peds and I still don't agree on anything. :hurah:


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Bill Broderick said:


> Come on peds, you're smarter than that. If I were to write something like "I'd have to be a moron to work for Mastec". Don't you think that you'd read that statement and think, "Hey, I work for Mastec. He just called me a moron."?


just because you think that it does not makes a true or factual statement, that is your personal opinion. The way you see it does not necessarily means that that is the real deal or the same way everyone sees it.

as a matter of fact, that are many folks that think that, on the other hand, there are many folks that dont... so...


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Reaper said:


> When you say that you would not "waste" money as the OP did, you are making a judgement. It's not rocket science dude.


again if the shoe fits....

It is my personal opinion, you can take it however you want, if you take personal, well that is your fault but it is not my intention.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Bill Broderick said:


> My example was giving an example of cutting costs *without* cutting the cord. You asked the question, not me.


But that is besides the point, I can cut cost down by lowering my TV package without having to waste over $2000 on equipment


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## unixguru (Jul 9, 2007)

I enjoy watching a good circus from time to time... but hasn't this one gone on long enough?


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## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

peds48 said:


> again if the shoe fits....
> 
> It is my personal opinion, you can take it however you want, if you take personal, well that is your fault but it is not my intention.


You think that the OP is wasting money on up-front equipment fees, yes?

Never mind. I agree with unixguru; this has gone on long enough.

Thanks for your thought-provoking analysis Diana.

And thank you peds for the brainless distraction.

Cya.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Reaper said:


> You think that the OP is wasting money on up-front equipment fees, yes?


Nope, that is her money and she can do whatever she wants with it. however I would not waste so large amount of money that way!


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

peds48 said:


> Nope, that is her money and she can do whatever she wants with it. however I would not waste so large amount of money that way!


We think you're wasting your time trolling. Oh. but we're not judging you.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

sigma1914 said:


> We think you're wasting your time trolling. Oh. but we're not judging you.


and I respect your opinion! so do the same for mine.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Long live Diana. I applaud the fact based analysis, and persistent push for a sensible debate, but sometimes a basset hound refuses to be cornered no matter the rationally presented facts.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

PEDS,You're confusing opinion with fact.
FACT is paying $750 for tivo equipment and switching to cable will save me $500 in 12 months. And $250 the next 12 months. 
So even with Directs free equipment it still cost more.
Fact. 

Sent from my Galaxy S5


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Good for you. it would be best if you did not have to waste $750 on equipment. and what you "guys" are forgetting is that you are all getting new customer discounts, same applies to DirecTV subs.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

peds48 said:


> Good for you. it would be best if you did not have to waste $750 on equipment. and what you "guys" are forgetting is that you are all getting new customer discounts, same applies to DirecTV subs.


I'm not getting anything free from Directv, if they want to upgrade me to HR 44 and HR24 with having to pay a bogus protection plan which still cost $100 a year and still does not guarantee the newest updated equipment.
I may have a different tune, but here we sit, Directv can't risk sending a current customer a Leased receiver of their choice? 
Wow great stuff.

Sent from my Galaxy S5


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

damondlt said:


> I'm not getting anything free from Directv,


Did you pay for your current Genie or any of your other receivers?


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## Bill Broderick (Aug 25, 2006)

peds48 said:


> The way you see it does not necessarily means that that is the real deal or the same way everyone sees it.


Has there been a single post in the 17 pages of this thread where someone has said when they read your statement "While TiVO is a great platform, I can't see myself wasting over $1500 dollars for equipment that would be obsolete in a few years." that they didn't read that as you implying that Diana wasted her money when she purchased Tivos? I haven't read one. I have, however, read many posts from many different people who read your statement exactly the same way that I read it.

When a few people misinterpret what you write, that's probably their fault. When everybody misinterprets what you write, then you wrote it incorrectly. When you unrepentantly continue to use the same inflammatory phrase that you're claiming that people are misinterpreting, it make people less inclined to belive that they misinterpreted what you wrote in the first place.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

> Did you pay for your current Genie or any of your other receivers?


Yep,
I paid $99 for Genie ( HR34)
$99 for Additional HR (HR23) Even though HR 24's were out and about
$49 for 1 H25
and Other H25 and D12 was no cost.
and I've also Paid $22 for my "free HR24 upgrade While sending back an H25, That brought my commitment till June 2015
+ tax was over $290on leased Equipment.

I wanted a C31 in place of my D12, Directv said $99 and 2 year commitment, I said NO way,
So I bought one from someone in this very Thread, for $65
So I've spend well over $350 on just equipment, Not counting the other replacement parts that I bought that Directvs Tech didn't see an issue with.

If it was up to Directv , I would have had
HR23 and 3 H25s and one D12.
And now New customers only Get 4 H2*
Or some sort of Genie and 3 of some types of Clients

A Genie with 3 H2* would have still cost me $210.
I just found my paperwork.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Bill Broderick said:


> Has there been a single post in the 17 pages of this thread where someone has said when they read your statement "While TiVO is a great platform, I can't see myself wasting over $1500 dollars for equipment that would be obsolete in a few years." that they didn't read that as you implying that Diana wasted her money when she purchased Tivos? I haven't read one. I have, however, read many posts from many different people who read your statement exactly the same way that I read it.
> 
> When a few people misinterpret what you write, that's probably their fault. When everybody misinterprets what you write, then you wrote it incorrectly. When you unrepentantly continue to use the same inflammatory phrase that you're claiming that people are misinterpreting, it make people less inclined to belive that they misinterpreted what you wrote in the first place.


They are entitled to the way they see it, and I am entitled to represent my opinion, without judging anyone.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

peds48 said:


> Where???? link please?


Really? Um ok:

"While TiVO is a great platform, I can't see myself *wasting *over $1500 dollars for equipment that would be obsolete in a few years. IN comparison, with DirecTV and some good "haggling" you can always have the latest and greatest for little or no cost." - post 33

"I know of many, many folks that called for a repair issue and got a fee Genie instead. so no need to lie, cajole or threaten. You just never tried." - post 60 - glad you're not judging her here, because telling someone that they just didn't try hard enough doesn't qualify as 'judging someone' I guess.

"Easy if you have $1500+ to *waste *on equipment. not a lot of folks have such luxury. This is why we have the subsidy platform " - post #148

Need I go on?


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

peds48 said:


> Good for you. it would be best if you did not have to waste $750 on equipment. and what you "guys" are forgetting is that you are all getting new customer discounts, same applies to DirecTV subs.


I don't understand how you term this a "waste". Even if the Tivo equipment could not be resold or re-used, if you spend $750 on equipment and $1000 on service in a year, versus spending $0 on equipment and $2000 on service in a year, you come out ahead. If the service is still $1000 vs $2000 in subsequent years your savings only multiply.

Would buying a house for 20% down be a waste in your mind compared to a housing bubble era 0% down purchases, even if you got the same interest rate on both? You seem to be contorting the definition of some words well away from their normal meanings to try to make your point, and when someone calls you out on it you try to play semantic games with them.

Give it up. For many people Directv isn't the best deal, whether they accomplish it using cable company DVRs or "waste" money up front for Tivo hardware. The payback for Tivo vs cable company hardware takes longer, and may in some cases not exist (if they have cheap DVRs and pricey cable cards) but some people would choose Tivo even if it was more expensive option than the cable DVR because they think it is worth it. Just like people will pay more for a particular car, phone or choose Directv over a cheaper competitor.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

Well IMHO, I don't have provider loyalty. 
I go with what I want and what to me seems the best at the time, and I'll be honest, 
I love the directv setup I have now, I really have no programing that I'm missing. 
So with that in mind I decided to cancel my tivo order last night, for a couple of reasons.

I know me, I can't stay with cable for long, I never could, not because of price or programming, but because it's flat out boring!

We are all the same here, we need gadgets we can tinker with and talk about it here.
Cable is so just so blah.
That's what I hooked my 75 year old mom up to cause I know I will never cause me problems and I'll never have to touch it 

But anyway I'm here to stay with directv. I know Diana will be very happy with the Roamios , they are sweet machines, but cable is just not me.
I see myself in 2 years right back with directv. It happends every time. And for that $750 is not a smart investment 

I gave cable all my business affairs and that most certainly is the best.

But Peds, you got to eventually admit, directv doesn't make sure you get the most up-to-date free equipment to very many existing customers. 

I wish Directv could provide a better internet option.
That's what is bugging me the most. 
I'm paying $68 for Internet that should only be $50 because I can't bundle it.

Sent from my Galaxy S5


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

jpl said:


> Need I go on?


Sure, please proceed, as Honorable President Obama said. cause none of those were directed at Diana


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

slice1900 said:


> I don't understand how you term this a "waste".


It is my personal opinion, and believe. I am entitled to one. so....

If is an investment to you, for me is a waste.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

slice1900 said:


> Give it up.


Why should I? why dont YOU give it up. you defend your believes, I defend mines.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

slice1900 said:


> For many people Directv isn't the best deal,


Fair enough, and I respect that.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

damondlt said:


> But Peds, you got to eventually admit, directv doesn't make sure you get the most up-to-date free equipment to very many existing customers.


that is not my personal experience and is not what I have read on these very forums.


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## anex80 (Jul 29, 2005)

damondlt said:


> ...I can't stay with cable for long, I never could, not because of price or programming, but because it's flat out boring!We are all the same here, we need gadgets we can tinker with and talk about it here.Cable is so just so blah.


+1


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## 242424 (Mar 22, 2012)

What's that old saying about arguing with an....


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

242424 said:


> What's that old saying about arguing with an....


So now we start with the personal attacks because there is a disagreement ... I guess the kids can have a serious adult conversation...


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

peds48 said:


> that is not my personal experience and is not what I have read on these very forums.


You should know by now , things that happen here are not the normal.
And how many new customers are hooked up in the NY area every day by you?
Directv's quarterly numbers don't reflect massive new customer installs.

Let's talk about existing customer upgrades, let me guess your installing 15 HR44 a day. Lol!

I bet Cable subscribers in NY city and Long Island far exceeds satellite custmers.

Sent from my Galaxy S5


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## unixguru (Jul 9, 2007)

peds48 said:


> They are entitled to the way they see it, and I am entitled to represent my opinion, without judging anyone.


I think we are all crystal clear on your opinion - you've repeated it many many times. What value is there to continuing to restate it? Please just stop. Then everyone else will as well.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

unixguru said:


> I think we are all crystal clear on your opinion - you've repeated it many many times. What value is there to continuing to restate it? Please just stop. Then everyone else will as well.


because you guys keep disputing my opinion and I have the save rights as you to defend it. when you guys stop I would stop as well. fair enough.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

peds48 said:


> because you guys keep disputing my opinion and I have the save rights as you to defend it. when you guys stop I would stop as well. fair enough.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Your opinion on this thread is biased because you are a DirecTV employee in some way.

You post meaningless posts on lots of threads just so your name can be the last one on the post and that you had the one answer to the problem of the thread.

You continually argue and dispute most of the posts that others make.
I will give you this, On technical problems most times you have the correct answers.

I think your signature says it all about you.

Grow up and Shut Up please.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

peds48 said:


> because you guys keep disputing my opinion and I have the save rights as you to defend it. when you guys stop I would stop as well. fair enough.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You got the last word in; you win.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

jimmie57 said:


> Your opinion on this thread is biased because you are a DirecTV employee in some way.
> 
> You post meaningless posts on lots of threads just so your name can be the last one on the post and that you had the one answer to the problem of the thread.
> 
> ...


my opinion is not biased in any way, I have no stock nor do I gain anything by supporting DirecTV. The same job I do here can be done at other companies. But that is your opinion and I respect that, I expect the same from you and the others

I will shut after you do the same. Fair enough?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

sigma1914 said:


> You got the last word in; you win.


is not about wining or losing but defending what your belief. Is that the core value of this awesome country?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

I think this has gone on long enough. I'm asking that this thread be locked. My intention was not to start a debate, but rather share my personal analysis and answer questions others might have about that analysis. I'm saving a ton of cash and thought some of the other members here might be interested in how.

Time to move along....nothing to see here.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

peds48 said:


> is not about wining or losing but defending what your belief. Is that the core value of this awesome country?
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


You just keep repeating yourself ad nauseam and not defending anything at this point. Bravo... you trolled again.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Diana C said:


> I think this has gone on long enough. I'm asking that this thread be locked.
> 
> Time to move along....nothing to see here.


yep. Agreed.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

peds48 said:


> yep. Agreed.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Like I said ... gotta get the last word.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

sigma1914 said:


> Like I said ... gotta get the last word.


keep repeating it and you will believe it.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

peds48 said:



> ...You seem to be in love with TiVO as you dragged this thread to over 11 pages....


Talk about shoes fitting.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Diana C said:


> Talk about shoes fitting.


you ask to let this go, but yet keep it going....lol

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)




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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Agreed!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

peds48 said:


> Agreed!
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Congratulations, your next response to this thread (and I know you'll have one) will give you the last word.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

peds48 said:


> Agreed!
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


That was in reference to you.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

sigma1914 said:


> That was in reference to you.


read post 354.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

sigma1914 said:


> That was in reference to you.


but you said not to replay anymore. Does not that apply to you?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## 242424 (Mar 22, 2012)

jimmie57 said:


> Your opinion on this thread is biased because you are a DirecTV employee in some way.
> 
> You post meaningless posts on lots of threads just so your name can be the last one on the post and that you had the one answer to the problem of the thread.
> 
> ...


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Diana C said:


> I think this has gone on long enough. I'm asking that this thread be locked. My intention was not to start a debate, but rather share my personal analysis and answer questions others might have about that analysis. I'm saving a ton of cash and thought some of the other members here might be interested in how.
> 
> Time to move along....nothing to see here.


Per the request of the OP. Done.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

Another thread closed because it was hijacked by the usual suspects that can't seem to have a civil discussion. It degrades to a bunch of school yard bickering and name calling.

Mike


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