# Choppy Playback with WHDVR and error: Playback Failed



## DrummerBoy523 (Jan 9, 2007)

I just wanted to say this is happening regularly as in daily. My wife will go to play a show at our H24-100. The show is recorded on our HR24-100. The playback will skip and stop/start. There is no way to watch the recording. Tonight when we tried to watch something, we got the message "Playback failed - no audio/video packets received from server". Weird stuff.

FYI, the recordings play flawlessly on the HR24.

This doesn't happen with any recordings on our other DVR, an HR21-200.

Anyone?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Go to one of the 24s and on the front panel, press both the guide & > "buttons" until you get into the coax network menu [it can take a few tries].
Then check and post your PHY levels and on the next screen the PHY MESH rates.
This is assuming you're using DECA.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Are you using DECA?

I got that many many times when I was testing MRV using my LAN Network because the Transmission was Too Slow (probably due to interference or the Router having to do other business) to the Receiving DVR and so that DVR thought it was Receiving Nothing which is was and then it issued the Message even though the Recording was intact on the Local Host that Recorded it.

I believe it is a timing thing and perhaps if you use DECA it would eliminate this issue. Once I went to DECA I never had the problem reoccur.


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## DrummerBoy523 (Jan 9, 2007)

I'm using DECA. When I ran a system test I got the following diagnostic code: 79-790

Here are the numbers from the other test:

Signal:
1 - 97%
2 - 95%
Network - 100%

Coax:
0 - 33 Node (Not sure)
1 - 28 Node H24
2 - 27 Node (not sure)
3 - N/A HR24

PHY:
.......0........1.......2........3
0.....243.....251.....248.....249
1.....251.....250.....250.....250
2.....234.....240.....236.....225
3.....231.....233.....232.....222


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

DrummerBoy523 said:


> I'm using DECA. When I ran a system test I got the following diagnostic code: 79-790
> 
> Here are the numbers from the other test:
> 
> ...


*79* Indicates that the network connection has dropped multiple MRV sessions over the past 5 days. 
Check for loose/bad connectors that may be causing intermitent problems with the signal. Verify all hardware have green labels indicating that they are SWM/MRV compliant.
This is what the error code lists.
You PHY MESH table looks to be missing one unit/node, since you have four, but only list three.
The numbers you've listed are fine though.

Where is the SWiM PI located?
You might have this problem:


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## DrummerBoy523 (Jan 9, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> *79* Indicates that the network connection has dropped multiple MRV sessions over the past 5 days.
> Check for loose/bad connectors that may be causing intermitent problems with the signal. Verify all hardware have green labels indicating that they are SWM/MRV compliant.
> This is what the error code lists.
> You PHY MESH table looks to be missing one unit/node, since you have four, but only list three.
> ...


Our system worked flawlessly once i figured out our DNS issues a couple months ago. Then, all of a sudden, this issue.

And, I too looked up that error code. It tells me what I already know  We've been having this issue for quite some time. Nothing has changed as far as our setup goes. I will check cabling, but doubt that is the issue. From our H24, I can play shows on the HR21 but not on the HR24. Then, when I reboot, the issue is solved for a period of time, then rears its ugly head again eventually.

The SWIM PI is located in the attic, but like I said above, Nothing has changed as far as our setup goes.


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

Do you pass throught the SWiM PI to a receiver as shown in the left-hand picture that VOS posted? If you do, try putting the PI on its own split.

- Merg


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## DrummerBoy523 (Jan 9, 2007)

The Merg said:


> Do you pass throught the SWiM PI to a receiver as shown in the left-hand picture that VOS posted? If you do, try putting the PI on its own split.
> 
> - Merg


My setup below - the PI is on its own split from what I can tell.

Why would shows from our HR24 be affected, and not shows from the HR21?

I'm having the problem as I type, and I can play shows from our HR21 on the H24 & HR24....BUT, I cannot play anything from our HR24. By the way, the shows play fine AT the HR24.

Here's my setup:


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## DrummerBoy523 (Jan 9, 2007)

Any clues?


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

If possible, go ahead and switch the HR24 to a different location. The easiest thing to do would be to swap it with the H24, but to test MRV to/from locations, you may want to swap it with the HR21. Just remember that if you do the latter, to also move the DECA with the HR21. This will tell you if the wiring might be the issue.

Before this, you can even just try swapping the HR21 coax and the HR24 coax on the splitter that everything comes from and see what happens.

- Merg


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## DrummerBoy523 (Jan 9, 2007)

The Merg said:


> If possible, go ahead and switch the HR24 to a different location. The easiest thing to do would be to swap it with the H24, but to test MRV to/from locations, you may want to swap it with the HR21. Just remember that if you do the latter, to also move the DECA with the HR21. This will tell you if the wiring might be the issue.
> 
> Before this, you can even just try swapping the HR21 coax and the HR24 coax on the splitter that everything comes from and see what happens.
> 
> - Merg


I'll have to wait until my wife & 3 year old are gone to the store later today. I will post back with results. Thanks.

Also - looks like I got 0x419 on the HR24 yesterday early am. It appears to have made things worse - before, we could at least reboot and watch for awhile. Now we can't watch anything


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## DrummerBoy523 (Jan 9, 2007)

The Merg said:


> If possible, go ahead and switch the HR24 to a different location. The easiest thing to do would be to swap it with the H24, but to test MRV to/from locations, you may want to swap it with the HR21. Just remember that if you do the latter, to also move the DECA with the HR21. This will tell you if the wiring might be the issue.
> 
> Before this, you can even just try swapping the HR21 coax and the HR24 coax on the splitter that everything comes from and see what happens.
> 
> - Merg


OK, I did as suggested. Swapped the HR21 & HR24 at the splitter. Problem now appears with shows from the HR21.

This would tell me either the splitter or wiring would be the issue?

Please advise.

FYI, I took a look at the PHY numbers and they look to be similar to the numbers I posted above.


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

Yup. Splitter most likely.

One last test. Switch the HR21 now and the H24 and see if viewing on the H24 from both the HR24 and HR21 has issues. Then try viewing on the HR24 and HR21 from each other. If the latter works fine and viewing on the H24 has issues, then it would seem the splitter might be bad.

- Merg


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## DrummerBoy523 (Jan 9, 2007)

The Merg said:


> Yup. Splitter most likely.
> 
> One last test. Switch the HR21 now and the H24 and see if viewing on the H24 from both the HR24 and HR21 has issues. Then try viewing on the HR24 and HR21 from each other. If the latter works fine and viewing on the H24 has issues, then it would seem the splitter might be bad.
> 
> - Merg


yeah, the more I thought about it, the more I realized it couldn't be the wiring since that didn't change - only the output port on the splitter changed.

I will try your last test and post the results.

I'm surprised a splitter would go bad after just 4 months.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

DrummerBoy523 said:


> I'm surprised a splitter would go bad after just 4 months.


I would be too, since there isn't much in them to "go bad".
Recheck your connectors as this tends to be more the problem.


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## DrummerBoy523 (Jan 9, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> I would be too, since there isn't much in them to "go bad".
> Recheck your connectors as this tends to be more the problem.


As for the connections - all are tight especially after I've moved things around. The splitter is back to where it was before I started and all connections have been tightened up.

Before I go and switch anything else up (recommendation of Merg) - I'm going to see how this thing behaves now that I've unhooked and re-hooked things up as well as rebooting all of the boxes.

I'm also open to any other suggestions to troubleshoot this.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

DrummerBoy523 said:


> As for the connections - all are tight especially after I've moved things around. The splitter is back to where it was before I started and all connections have been tightened up.
> 
> Before I go and switch anything else up (recommendation of Merg) - I'm going to see how this thing behaves now that I've unhooked and re-hooked things up as well as rebooting all of the boxes.
> 
> I'm also open to any other suggestions to troubleshoot this.


I'd say you're on the right track.
"By checking the connectors" I was more suggesting to visually check their insides and whether they're loose on the cable.
The dialectic should be flush with the internal "ring" of the connector. If it's recessed, it wasn't made correctly.
If there is anything there but the dialectic [dirt., etc.] clean it out.


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## DrummerBoy523 (Jan 9, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> I'd say you're on the right track.
> "By checking the connectors" I was more suggesting to visually check their insides and whether they're loose on the cable.
> The dialectic should be flush with the internal "ring" of the connector. If it's recessed, it wasn't made correctly.
> If there is anything there but the dialectic [dirt., etc.] clean it out.


connectors were/are clean.


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## DrummerBoy523 (Jan 9, 2007)

The Merg said:


> Yup. Splitter most likely.
> 
> One last test. Switch the HR21 now and the H24 and see if viewing on the H24 from both the HR24 and HR21 has issues. Then try viewing on the HR24 and HR21 from each other. If the latter works fine and viewing on the H24 has issues, then it would seem the splitter might be bad.
> 
> - Merg


Ok, did what you said.

Viewing from the H24 to the HR24 has issues still (*edit - originally this appeared to work but has stopped working)
Viewing from the HR21 to the HR24 now has issues - while trying to view the list it told me it had disconnected from the network, then the List repopulated again and I could watch stuff - but the stuttering continues. So, there is some sort of problem with either the wiring, the splitter or both.

currently, I'm able to watch a show recorded on the HR21 from the H24 & I can watch a show recorded on the HR21 from the HR24.

Viewing Box--->DVR--->Status
H24--->HR21--->Good
H24--->HR24--->Bad
HR21--->HR24--->Bad
HR24--->HR21--->Good

Not sure what DTV can do about this? They've been out here before and didn't help anything. This is frustrating.

Could this be a router issue at all? I've got reserved IPs outside of my normal DHCP range for all 3 boxes.

This issue just started about a month ago. I'm confused as to why it would all of a sudden quit working - could this be software related? Nothing has changed hardware wise or setup wise to cause this.

*edit - 1 more question: 
the cable has some big/sharp bends in it at the splitter which is outside in our cable hookup box. Could this be an issue at all? I could take a picture if needed.

Frustrated in music city..


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

let's go back to each 24 and run the coax tests again from each of them.
You posted results were missing one of yours, which may show some light on this.


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## DrummerBoy523 (Jan 9, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> let's go back to each 24 and run the coax tests again from each of them.
> You posted results were missing one of yours, which may show some light on this.


I don't think it will but here they are:

*HR24:*

0 = HR24 = N/A
1 = ? = 28
2 = ? = 33
3 = H24 = 28

......0......1......2......3
0...230...240...242...240
1...244...246...248...246
2...249...250...248...251
3...249...248...251...248

*H24:*

0 = HR24 = 28
1 = ? = 26
2 = ? = 31
3 = H24 = N/A

......0......1......2......3
0...229...237...243...239
1...246...246...248...246
2...250...249...249...250
3...250...249...251...249


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

DrummerBoy523 said:


> I don't think it will but here they are:
> 
> *HR24:*
> 
> ...


Thanks. Sometimes what you "don't see" helps.
What I don't see is anything wrong with the RF DECA networking. The losses are good and the MESH rates are too.
What we can't test is the ethernet end of the DECAs.
The swapping you've done so far hasn't led to what device is the cause yet.
What I'd do now is to remove the ethernet from the broadband DECA to the router.
Then reboot each receiver so they change over to the internal IP of 69.xxx.xxx.xxx. If you're using static IPs now, you may need to reset the network defaults.
Run this configuration and see how it performs.
Next depending on how it works, I might swap the broadband DECA with the DECA on the HR21 and see what, if anything, changes.


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## DrummerBoy523 (Jan 9, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> Thanks. Sometimes what you "don't see" helps.
> What I don't see is anything wrong with the RF DECA networking. The losses are good and the MESH rates are too.
> What we can't test is the ethernet end of the DECAs.
> The swapping you've done so far hasn't led to what device is the cause yet.
> ...


So, you think this might be a possibility of the receivers flooding the network with internet requests somehow? Not sure where you are going with the ethernet angle..

But, I will do anything at this point  and so I will remove the broadband DECA and reboot the units & report back.

thanks for the help!


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## DrummerBoy523 (Jan 9, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> Thanks. Sometimes what you "don't see" helps.
> What I don't see is anything wrong with the RF DECA networking. The losses are good and the MESH rates are too.
> What we can't test is the ethernet end of the DECAs.
> The swapping you've done so far hasn't led to what device is the cause yet.
> ...


Internet/BB DECA removed and terminated. Restored defaults on all receivers and rebooted. *So far - all issues have disappeared.* FYI, previously after messing with the splitter and then rebooting, the issue would present itself immediately.

So, here we are again at the BB DECA (weren't we just here a few months ago )

Let me know your thoughts.

*Edit: Issues are still present


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## DrummerBoy523 (Jan 9, 2007)

I spoke too soon. Issues are still present. They just took longer to reveal themselves.

What next?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

DrummerBoy523 said:


> Internet/BB DECA removed and terminated. Restored defaults on all receivers and rebooted. *So far - all issues have disappeared.* FYI, previously after messing with the splitter and then rebooting, the issue would present itself immediately.
> 
> So, here we are again at the BB DECA (weren't we just here a few months ago )
> 
> Let me know your thoughts.


So you've now "proved" the receiver, cabling, and splitter are working fine.
"Your problem" looks to be how things change/are handled when the router is controlling.
Things this "might be" from:
The broadband DECA is flaky, which you could now swap with the DECA on the HR21. Then keep the system "as is" and see if this DECA is now causing issues. If it does, then this DECA needs to be replaced [there has been one case of this here]. If it doesn't change anything, then the DECA is good.
Not all routers "play nice" with MRV. "Most" seem to work with static IPs outside of their DHCP pool.
One user/customer has the same router I do [2Wire] and the same basic setup, but had problems I don't. 
His solution was to use an old router that was laying around and connect the BB DECA to it and then connect this router to his other router. This gave him internet access but kept the MRV isolated from the "problem" router.
If you have a switch "laying around", you might try it between the BB DECA and your router. A good switch should keep your "router traffic" off the DECA.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

DrummerBoy523 said:


> I spoke too soon. Issues are still present. They just took longer to reveal themselves.
> 
> What next?


Try using the BB DECA on the HR21 to see if this [currently on the 21] is causing this.


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## DrummerBoy523 (Jan 9, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> So you've now "proved" the receiver, cabling, and splitter are working fine.
> "Your problem" looks to be how things change/are handled when the router is controlling.
> Things this "might be" from:
> The broadband DECA is flaky, which you could now swap with the DECA on the HR21. Then keep the system "as is" and see if this DECA is now causing issues. If it does, then this DECA needs to be replaced [there has been one case of this here]. If it doesn't change anything, then the DECA is good.
> ...


If you'll look at my diagram below, you'll notice that I have a switch.


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## DrummerBoy523 (Jan 9, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> Try using the BB DECA on the HR21 to see if this [currently on the 21] is causing this.


The HR21 is the only box that actually "works" to serve up shows. The problem is shows from the HR24 served up to the HR21 & H24. Right now, I'm getting the "No Audio/Video Packets Received..." message at the H24 & HR21 when trying to watch shows on the HR24.

Would your suggestion still isolate this?

FYI, not sure you recall, but you and I went through this whole DECA stuff a couple of months ago. It appeared that static IPs did the trick - but that only lasted for a couple months and now we're back here again with a different but similar problem.

I appreciate your help.


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

Could be issues with that switch then. I believe VOS's point was to change up what the Broadband DECA was connected to in order to see if that might be the issue.

However, since the issue returned without the Broadband DECA, I would try VOS's other suggestion of swapping the Broadband DECA with the one behind the HR21. When you do this, do not reconnect the DECA taken from the HR21 up to the router. If all works fine without being connected to the router, then hook that one up. If the issue returns, it would seem that you have a bad DECA unit causing issues. If the issue doesn't return, it could still have been a flaky DECA unit, however, since it is only being used for VOD, the issue might not pronounce itself like when used for MRV.

- Merg


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

DrummerBoy523 said:


> The HR21 is the only box that actually "works" to serve up shows. The problem is shows from the HR24 served up to the HR21 & H24. Right now, I'm getting the "No Audio/Video Packets Received..." message at the H24 & HR21 when trying to watch shows on the HR24.
> 
> Would your suggestion still isolate this?
> 
> ...


I thought you said that when you switched the cables on the splitter for the HR21 and HR24 that the issue switched receivers?

- Merg


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

Okay, I just reread your results that the HR24 is still having problems streaming recordings. So everything works fine except if the HR24 is the server, correct? And it doesn't matter which port on the splitter the HR24 is plugged into correct?

Have you tried swapping the location of the HR24 with another receiver just to rule out a cabling issue? I would swap the HR24 and the HR21 first and see if the issue moves to the HR21 when serving recordings. That would definitely indicate a cabling issue from the splitter to the HR24's original location.

- Merg


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

DrummerBoy523 said:


> The HR21 is the only box that actually "works" to serve up shows. The problem is shows from the HR24 served up to the HR21 & H24. Right now, I'm getting the "No Audio/Video Packets Received..." message at the H24 & HR21 when trying to watch shows on the HR24.
> 
> Would your suggestion still isolate this?
> 
> ...


"The switch" idea and for that matter all the options in that reply, were for a system working fine without the BB DECA, but....


> I'm getting the "No Audio/Video Packets Received..." message at the H24 & HR21 when trying to watch shows on the HR24.


This kind of points to the HR24 as the cause, doesn't it?
I'm not sure it's worth the time & effort, "but" you could try connecting the BB DECA to the HR24's ethernet port. This will take some cable rearranging and a splitter. If this worked, then the HR24s internal DECA is the problem. If it doesn't change anything, it still could be the HR24, but simply farther into the networking circuit as both DECA & ethernet are being affected.
"It might be time" to bite the bullet and get this 24 swapped to see if anything changes, "or" has this already been done?
BTW: I'm lucky to remember who I helped last week, let alone last month. :eek2: :lol:


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

The Merg said:


> I thought you said that when you switched the cables on the splitter for the HR21 and HR24 that the issue switched receivers?
> 
> - Merg


"Squirrel"
they're know to show up during troubleshooting. :lol:


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> "Squirrel"
> they're know to show up during troubleshooting. :lol:


:lol:

- Merg


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## DrummerBoy523 (Jan 9, 2007)

The Merg said:


> Okay, I just reread your results that the HR24 is still having problems streaming recordings. So everything works fine except if the HR24 is the server, correct? And it doesn't matter which port on the splitter the HR24 is plugged into correct?
> 
> Have you tried swapping the location of the HR24 with another receiver just to rule out a cabling issue? I would swap the HR24 and the HR21 first and see if the issue moves to the HR21 when serving recordings. That would definitely indicate a cabling issue from the splitter to the HR24's original location.
> 
> - Merg


At this point, I can't remember what I've done so far 

I have switched splitter ports for both DVRs, and then also switched the ports between the HR21 & H24. From what I can tell, when the HR24 & HR21 are switched, the problem appears at the HR24 when streaming from the HR21 - which is why initially we thought this was a splitter issue.

I have not physically moved any boxes yet - but could certainly do so in order to eliminate cabling. The cable that is connected to the HR24 is about 3 years old and "appears" to be fine. Is there any way to test a cable somehow?



veryoldschool said:


> "The switch" idea and for that matter all the options in that reply, were for a system working fine without the BB DECA, but....
> 
> This kind of points to the HR24 as the cause, doesn't it?
> I'm not sure it's worth the time & effort, "but" you could try connecting the BB DECA to the HR24's ethernet port. This will take some cable rearranging and a splitter. If this worked, then the HR24s internal DECA is the problem. If it doesn't change anything, it still could be the HR24, but simply farther into the networking circuit as both DECA & ethernet are being affected.
> ...


I am thinking the HR24 is the problem too - and I have not swapped it out. But, I honestly need to start from scratch and document what I've done as it is quite difficult to keep track of every scenario and the results. I have a hard time thinking the splitter is the issue.

Other than swapping the locations - have you guys exhausted the scenarios that I should be trying? If so, I will swap the locations of the DVRs to eliminate cabling and report back.

Thanks again.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

DrummerBoy523 said:


> Other than swapping the locations - have you guys exhausted the scenarios that I should be trying? If so, I will swap the locations of the DVRs to eliminate cabling and report back.
> 
> Thanks again.


"pretty much".
The DECA PHY tests are showing the cabling is fine.
"About the only other thing" would be to rerun these tests [if you haven't already] while you're having these problems. Your good results "might have been" before you had the problem return. :shrug:


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

DrummerBoy523 said:


> At this point, I can't remember what I've done so far
> 
> I have switched splitter ports for both DVRs, and then also switched the ports between the HR21 & H24. From what I can tell, when the HR24 & HR21 are switched, the problem appears at the HR24 when streaming from the HR21 - which is why initially we thought this was a splitter issue.
> 
> ...


Basically, these are the things to test... Perform these while not connected to the router to eliminate any router issues...

1) Switch where the cables are plugged into the splitter
2) Switch the DECA plugged into the HR21
3) Switch the location of the DVR's

In each case, check the playback while using the H24 as it currently works for the HR21 and not the HR24. You are looking to see when things start working for the HR24 and not for the HR21.

- Merg


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

I strongly suspected the HR24 was the problem for a while now, but was given pause from posting it as a suggestion because of what DrummerBoy523 stated at the beginning of his post #12 about when he first switched the HR21 and HR24 cable connections at the SWM splitter;



> OK, I did as suggested. Swapped the HR21 & HR24 at the splitter. Problem now appears with shows from the HR21 ...


So I thought he said the problem moved to the HR21 after that first cable switch early on.


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## DrummerBoy523 (Jan 9, 2007)

HoTat2 said:


> I strongly suspected the HR24 was the problem for a while now, but was given pause from posting it as a suggestion because of what DrummerBoy523 stated at the beginning of his post #12 about when he first switched the HR21 and HR24 cable connections at the SWM splitter;
> 
> So I thought he said the problem moved to the HR21 after that first cable switch early on.


I'm pretty sure the problem "moved" yes. But, I don't think I left it in this state long enough to test out the issue at the HR21.

Just like last night when I removed the BB DECA and reset the network defaults, everything worked fine at first, but then when I tried to play a show sitting at the HR24 from the HR21, it was choppy.

Honestly, I need to start from scratch and document this process again.

This will take some time but I will attempt to do so tonight and then update this thread with results.

Thanks all for your help.


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## armchair (Jul 27, 2009)

DrummerBoy523 said:


> My setup below - the PI is on its own split from what I can tell.
> 
> Why would shows from our HR24 be affected, and not shows from the HR21?
> 
> ...


I'm thinking out loud here...

Splitter # 2 could have a BSF at input to minimize DECA traffic to its intended targets.

Since DVRs act as both Clients and servers for MRV traffic (bi-directional), they could be placed on the two center ports of splitter # 2 (output ports) for the least amount of loss.

I'm thinking that this may balance the circuit for DECA traffic better than the posted setup. Basically, add the BSF and swap the coaxial ports of HR24 and H24 at the splitter. Thoughts?

Oh yeah, everytime I look at this, I wonder if ports 3 & 4 and PI-IRD are properly terminated. (?)


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## DrummerBoy523 (Jan 9, 2007)

armchair said:


> I'm thinking out loud here...
> 
> Splitter # 2 could have a BSF at input to minimize DECA traffic to its intended targets.
> 
> ...


1. What does the BSF do? Would it limit traffic going "back" to splitter #1? Of course, I just threw away all of my BSFs when I went DECA. Figures.

2. Why would port #1 & port #4 be any different? Not following the "center ports" suggestion? What is different about port 2 & 3?



armchair said:


> Oh yeah, everytime I look at this, I wonder if ports 3 & 4 and PI-IRD are properly terminated. (?)


Ports 3 & 4 are terminated - along with the PI/IRD.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

DrummerBoy523 said:


> 1. What does the BSF do? Would it limit traffic going "back" to splitter #1? Of course, I just threw away all of my BSFs when I went DECA. Figures.


A BSF is a Band Stop Filter needed for the HR20s and a BBC is a Broadband Converter so maybe you are confusing the two as I don't see an HR20 in the Equation.


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## DrummerBoy523 (Jan 9, 2007)

richierich said:


> A BSF is a Band Stop Filter needed for the HR20s and a BBC is a Broadband Converter so maybe you are confusing the two as I don't see an HR20 in the Equation.


you are correct. But since I dont have any HR20s, why would previous poster suggest a band stop filter?


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

DrummerBoy523 said:


> you are correct. But since I dont have any HR20s, why would previous poster suggest a band stop filter?


I am as Puzzled as you are but then again I would not have Set Up my System like he has done.

I am having Zero Problems even though I had to Redo some of the Wiring after the Installer left because I along with HDTVFAN0001 thought he had wired it incorrectly, which he had and now my WHDVR is working Perfectly and Flawlessly!!!


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## DrummerBoy523 (Jan 9, 2007)

richierich said:


> I am as Puzzled as you are but then again I would not have Set Up my System like he has done.
> 
> I am having Zero Problems even though I had to Redo some of the Wiring after the Installer left because I along with HDTVFAN0001 thought he had wired it incorrectly, which he had and now my WHDVR is working Perfectly and Flawlessly!!!


That setup diagram is mine.

When I signed up for MRV, the dish was located right next to my junction box. But, it had to be moved to the other side of the house due to LOS issues. The only spot was the roof. So, the dish sits on the roof and the feed goes into the attic where it is split for the PI and the guest bedroom (future use/terminated). The 3rd output goes back through my attic and out the other side of my house and down to my original cable junction box outside where the 2nd 4 way splitter feeds the router, 2 dvrs and the h24.


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

The BSF is required in front of any receiver that is on a DECA enabled network that does not have a DECA, basically your non-MRV receivers (and in the case of the HR20-100 the one cable that goes by itself to the receiver). The BSF stops the ethernet signal, which in the case of non-MRV receivers will interfere with the satellite signal when it gets to the receiver.

By putting the BSF between Splitter 1 and Splitter 2, the poster was suggesting that by stopping the DECA signal there as opposed to letting it go all the way back to Splitter 1 that it will reduce loss of the DECA signal.

- Merg


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## DrummerBoy523 (Jan 9, 2007)

The Merg said:


> The BSF is required in front of any receiver that is on a DECA enabled network that does not have a DECA, basically your non-MRV receivers (and in the case of the HR20-100 the one cable that goes by itself to the receiver). The BSF stops the ethernet signal, which in the case of non-MRV receivers will interfere with the satellite signal when it gets to the receiver.
> 
> By putting the BSF between Splitter 1 and Splitter 2, the poster was suggesting that by stopping the DECA signal there as opposed to letting it go all the way back to Splitter 1 that it will reduce loss of the DECA signal.
> 
> - Merg


OK, I was confused since i don't have an HR20 

But, our future plans require an H24 in the guest room eventually. Not sure if this will work long term.

I"m wondering if I need to swap out splitter #1 with just a 2 way. And then add an 8 way instead of splitter #2 which give me the ability to run a line all the way back up into the attic and down to the guest room?


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## armchair (Jul 27, 2009)

DrummerBoy523 said:


> 1. What does the BSF do? Would it limit traffic going "back" to splitter #1? Of course, I just threw away all of my BSFs when I went DECA. Figures.
> 
> 2. Why would port #1 & port #4 be any different? Not following the "center ports" suggestion? What is different about port 2 & 3?
> 
> Ports 3 & 4 are terminated - along with the PI/IRD.


Ports 2 & 3 are closer to each other and the input. For the same reason, there's lesser loss. Looking at your coaxial data, the HR24 was seeing an additional 2 dB loss, compared to the HR21 on one of the middle nodes. Being meticulous, I placed both my HR24s on the middle ports of the splitter; the PI, HR22 & BB DECA occupy outer ports of my splitter.

The BSF will block DECA/MRV frequencies and adding the coaxial link itself has been noted to make a difference as well, which may be considered as well.

I threw the idea out there for discussion thinking it may be better than starting from scratch.


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## armchair (Jul 27, 2009)

The Merg said:


> By putting the BSF between Splitter 1 and Splitter 2, the poster was suggesting that by stopping the DECA signal there as opposed to letting it go all the way back to Splitter 1 that it will reduce loss of the DECA signal.
> 
> - Merg


Thanks, Merg. Well said.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

The Merg said:


> The BSF is required in front of any receiver that is on a DECA enabled network that does not have a DECA, basically your non-MRV receivers (and in the case of the HR20-100 the one cable that goes by itself to the receiver). The BSF stops the ethernet signal, which in the case of non-MRV receivers will interfere with the satellite signal when it gets to the receiver.
> 
> By putting the BSF between Splitter 1 and Splitter 2, the poster was suggesting that by stopping the DECA signal there as opposed to letting it go all the way back to Splitter 1 that it will reduce loss of the DECA signal.
> 
> - Merg


Wow, I learn something New Everyday.


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

armchair said:


> Thanks, Merg. Well said.


I try. 

- Merg


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

armchair said:


> *Ports 2 & 3 are closer to each other and the input. For the same reason, there's lesser loss.* Looking at your coaxial data, the HR24 was seeing an additional 2 dB loss, compared to the HR21 on one of the middle nodes. Being meticulous, I placed both my HR24s on the middle ports of the splitter; the PI, HR22 & BB DECA occupy outer ports of my splitter.
> 
> The BSF will block DECA/MRV frequencies and adding the coaxial link itself has been noted to make a difference as well, which may be considered as well.
> 
> I threw the idea out there for discussion thinking it may be better than starting from scratch.


Not a chance in hell. ALL splitter outputs are equal.
2dB of loss difference in the PHY level can simply come down to the DECA itself, as these aren't calibrated to any degree.

NEVER use a splitter larger than you need, since you're just causing more loss and then burning the RF into the terminations.

Bandstop filter can be using full in two ways:
1 to keep the DECA signal from "banging" the receiver with a high level signal. This is needed for receiver on the SWiM, but not having a DECA installed [R-16 say].
2 to keep the DECA signal out of the SWiM, "for older SWiMs that don't have the green label indicating the BSF is internal.

This can be another use for the BSF "IF" the PHY MESH rates are low due to the reflection coming back into the splitter's input. This ISN'T the case here.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

The Merg said:


> By putting the BSF between Splitter 1 and Splitter 2, the poster was suggesting that by stopping the DECA signal there as opposed to letting it go all the way back to Splitter 1 that it will reduce loss of the DECA signal.
> 
> - Merg


BUT!!!!
If one understand what these green labeled splitter do/work, this wouldn't be the case.
the output to output loss for the DECA path is about 13 dB, where the reverse loss path [going backwards to the input] reflecting back through the splitter in the forward direction will be higher loss than the 13 dB.
Even if this might be an issue, it would be reflected in the PHY levels & PHY MESH rates, which was what I asked for early on and have ALWAYS shown to be well within specs.

Wild goose chasing and red herrings is all most of this is at this point. :nono:


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> BUT!!!!
> If one understand what these green labeled splitter do/work, this wouldn't be the case.
> the output to output loss for the DECA path is about 13 dB, where the reverse loss path [going backwards to the input] reflecting back through the splitter in the forward direction will be higher loss than the 13 dB.
> Even if this might be an issue, it would be reflected in the PHY levels & PHY MESH rates, which was what I asked for early on and have ALWAYS shown to be well within specs.
> ...


Don't shoot the messenger. I was just explaining what the one poster was trying to state. You know I always defer to you for the technical mumbo-jumbo stuff. :lol:

- Merg


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

richierich said:


> A BSF is a Band Stop Filter needed for the HR20s and *a BBC is a Broadband Converter* so maybe you are confusing the two as I don't see an HR20 in the Equation.


Actually "BBC" stands for "B-Band Converter."  A device used on legacy (non-SWM) installs to convert the satellite LNB B-Band, 250-750 MHz, up to the "A-Band" range of 1650-2150 MHz, while at the same time blocking the actual A-Band signals when necessary on H/HR 20, 21, 22, and 24 receiver models.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

HoTat2 said:


> Actually "BBC" stands for "B-Band Converter."  A device used on legacy (non-SWM) installs to convert the satellite LNB B-Band, 250-750 MHz, up to the "A-Band" range of 1650-2150 MHz, while at the same time blocking the actual A-Band signals when necessary on H/HR 20, 21, 22, and 24 receiver models.


while I will give you "B band" [which might be base band], find me anywhere "A band" is listed as 1650-2150 MHz.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_spectrum


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

HoTat2 said:


> Actually "BBC" stands for "B-Band Converter."  A device used on legacy (non-SWM) installs to convert the satellite LNB B-Band, 250-750 MHz, up to the "A-Band" range of 1650-2150 MHz, while at the same time blocking the actual A-Band signals when necessary on H/HR 20, 21, 22, and 24 receiver models.


Yes, you are correct and I knew that but typing fast and being in many threads one of which dealt with broadband stuff I just subconsciously put that in but I do have a Document explaining about the "A" Band and "B" Band stuff.

I saw in on a Directv Installer's Video.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

richierich said:


> I saw in on a Directv Installer's Video.


!rolling
Well I guess it's gospel then. :lol:


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Well, why would Directv put out False Information to it's own Installers???


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

Mesh & Phy Rates will within spec (at the high end  )
HR21->H24 good playback
HR21->HR24 good playback

HR24->H24 no audio/video packets, etc
HR24->HR21 no audio/video packets, etc

Correct?

Replace the HR24.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

richierich said:


> Well, why would Directv put out False Information to it's own Installers???


"the blind leading the blind"

"If" 250-750 MHz is "B band", and 1650-2150 MHz is "A band", then what is 950-1450 MHz? "Band zero"? :lol:

Historically:
950-1450 MHz came first.
1650-2150 MHz came next.
250-750 MHz came last.

In my link above there is an obscure reference to:
B band 0.25 to 0.5 GHz [but this is only have the band used :eek2:]

And then following this weak usage would be A band 0 to 0.25 GHz [which isn't even close]


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

RobertE said:


> Mesh & Phy Rates will within spec (at the high end  )
> HR21->H24 good playback
> HR21->HR24 good playback
> 
> ...


Awe come on, don't you too have a goose to chase? [wild or not] :lol:


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

veryoldschool said:


> while I will give you "B band" [which might be base band], find me anywhere "A band" is listed as 1650-2150 MHz.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_spectrum


Well AFAIK "A" and "B" actually refer to the FCC designation for the two assigned 500 MHz portions of the Ka band assigned for broadcast satellite communications. The "1650-2150 MHz A-Band" thereby actually means the frequency down-converted IF for the satellite A-band from the LNB.

But really, all these different and imprecise band designations frankly give me somewhat of a headache anyhow. For instance why do we actually call DirecTV's HD signals the "Ka-band" when the Ka band is technically from 27-40 GHz?

Are they referring only to the uplink part or something?


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## DrummerBoy523 (Jan 9, 2007)

armchair said:


> Ports 2 & 3 are closer to each other and the input. For the same reason, there's lesser loss. Looking at your coaxial data, the HR24 was seeing an additional 2 dB loss, compared to the HR21 on one of the middle nodes. Being meticulous, I placed both my HR24s on the middle ports of the splitter; the PI, HR22 & BB DECA occupy outer ports of my splitter.
> 
> The BSF will block DECA/MRV frequencies and adding the coaxial link itself has been noted to make a difference as well, which may be considered as well.
> 
> I threw the idea out there for discussion thinking it may be better than starting from scratch.


I don't have a BSF (but can get one). I will however put the 2 DVRs in the center ports on the splitter with the H24 and BB DECA on #s 1 & 4.

I still think this is the HR24, but we have so many shows on it that we have to watch that I can't dream of getting rid of it/swapping it out just yet.

Thanks!


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

HoTat2 said:
 

> Well AFAIK "A" and "B" actually refer to the FCC designation for the two assigned 500 MHz portions of the Ka band assigned for broadcast satellite communications. The "1650-2150 MHz A-Band" thereby actually means the frequency down-converted IF for the satellite A-band from the LNB.
> 
> But really, all these different and imprecise band designations frankly give me somewhat of a headache anyhow. For instance why do we actually call DirecTV's HD signals the "Ka-band" when the Ka band is technically from 27-40 GHz?
> 
> Are they referring only to the uplink part or something?


Letter band destinations all depend on which group/field you're talking to.
Transmitter group use one set, while the jamming group use another.
It's all "code" until you simply put it in MHz, & GHz.


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## DrummerBoy523 (Jan 9, 2007)

RobertE said:


> Mesh & Phy Rates will within spec (at the high end  )
> HR21->H24 good playback
> HR21->HR24 good playback
> 
> ...


yes, getting back on topic. This is the gist of it. Still fun to chase a goose  Plus, my wife is ticked this doesn't work in our bedroom which is why I've spent 2 days on this so far.


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