# L185 Bug Report: Guide has new font/look/feel (FIXED IN L186)



## sampatterson (Aug 27, 2002)

Was L185 supposed to mess with the guide look and feel? I have two 921s. After L185 the guide on one of them has a totally different look and feel. New font, new graphic (lines around the guide and guide data look different), etc.

The guide is usable and actually looks much cleaner than before. It is in what looks like a higher resolution smaller font so more data shows.

Is this a bug or a feature?


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

If you use the transparent guide the info on the show will fill the top of the guide screen and is in very large letters. If you use the pip window the info on the guide is small and reduced so it will fit in a smaller space. I don't know if this is what you mean but I noticed this yesterday.


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## sampatterson (Aug 27, 2002)

I'll try to get a digital picture of it tonight so everyone can see. It has nothing to do with PIP on mine. The guide is in a totally different smaller font style. It looks good but definately different then the guide look and feel on my other 921. All the other items, menu, info, etc look normal, only the guide has the "new" font and lines.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

I haven't noticed that on mine...but I'll look mode closely tonight.


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## sampatterson (Aug 27, 2002)

You will definately be able to tell the difference, if you do have it. It is not a "minor" change/bug. My wife showed me this morning as I was leaving for work and it was "wow", what a change.

I just wonder if I got some kind of corruption happen and the font on that page is messed up.


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## sampatterson (Aug 27, 2002)

Uploaded some pictures (cell phone quality)... Notice the "boxes" around the header, etc. Also there are only 6 channels displayed in the grid where my upstairs one has 7 channels in the grid.

Another issue with the guide is that when something is recording the "red dot" in the title does not show, nor does any show that is "set" to record. The red dots no longer show in the guide at all.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

huh...I did look last night, and my guide screen doesn't look anything like yours...I have no idea.


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## ksquared (Feb 2, 2004)

I have the new guide view, too. I wonder why it came well *AFTER*
185 was installed. Yes, I am saying that I had the old-style guide 
for at least a day after 185 installed and booted on my machine on tuesday
night. Something with the downloaded guide data stream, maybe?

Unfortunately, the new guide is almost useless on my secondary TV.
I feed my in-house cable plant from the SD on the 921 to a 4 month old
Sony 27" via a Channel Vision modulator that has worked fine for 3
years. The TV picture looks fine but the guide has a horrible flicker
and the new font is almost too small to read from my normal viewing 
position.

Grumble, grumble.

K^2
L185HECD-N
Dish 500 Twin, Dish 300 dual @148, 2 SW-21s


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## sampatterson (Aug 27, 2002)

I agree, the "new" guide (if it is a bug) is very hard to see when across the room as the fonts are so much smaller, also only having 6 items on the screen sucks.


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## ksquared (Feb 2, 2004)

I did a power-plug reboot for the heck of it. It did not clear the guide.

I'm not claiming I know how the 921 OSD works, but I've seem many things
that indicate it in some sort of Markup Language (The 7200 would
show ML tags on screen when it's memory got corrupted). The
guide looks very much like ALT="text" that is is put in place
of images while waiting for them to load.

K^2
SW Version: L185


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Are you guys running at 1080i or 720p? Component or DVI? Tranparent guide turned on or not?


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## ksquared (Feb 2, 2004)

In my case it was all SD output, so 480i. The RCA Composite feeds into an 
RF modulator that feeds the rest of the house. The horrible flicker with the guide
may be an artifact of that path, but the video picture is beautiful over it.

I had transparency off. After the power-plug reboot didn't work, I played with it 
some more, turning transparency on and setting to the low and high levels. It was
still the same messed up guide and it wasn't transparent. The Menu=> options guide
was transparent, though.

I'll play with it on the Monolith tonight and see if that makes any difference in HD.

Regards,
K^2
L185


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## ksquared (Feb 2, 2004)

The guide looks the same (screwed up) at 1080i via Component and 
transparency off on the big screen. No flicker, but the guide is scrolled
off the top with info cut off and a thick black band on the bottom. 

More annoying aspects about this guide:
- the small text font looks fuzzy at 1080i 
- The guide data doesn't change color between "now playing" and upcoming
(Green vs. Blue/Green on the old guide).


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## sampatterson (Aug 27, 2002)

Normally DVI. I tried component out at both 720p and 1080i, and DVI @ 720p and 1080i. All combinations show the "bad" guide screen


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## sampatterson (Aug 27, 2002)

Oops. Forgot, transparent guide is not checked. When I checked it, it made no difference to the way the guide looked, except the video window was made the same size as just the guide grid and show in the guide grid (transparently). It used to show full screen with the entire guide being transparent. I don't ever use the transparent guide but the "bad" guide is still there whether it is checked or not.


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## Slordak (Dec 17, 2003)

I'm confused. How do you get the "new" look and feel? Does it happen automatically or does one have to have the 921 setup a certain way?

We should all be running the same software version, right, but I don't see this new appearance (e.g. the boxes around the text regions at the top). I haven't explicitly checked which software version number my 921 shows now, but the timers seem to be working, so I can only assume it's L185.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

That's what I'm trying to figure out as well, Slordak. No matter what I do (and I've tried a lot of things), I can't get my guide to look like Sam's pictures even in SD mode.


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## sampatterson (Aug 27, 2002)

I have no idea, besides the download for 185 came, I rebooted and the guide was messed up from then on. I can live for a while (until the next upgrade) with the horrible small font/look. The biggest issue is the "Red Dot" that shows when something is scheduled to record or recording no longer shows in the guide so you can't tell what you have (by looking at the guide) schedule to record. My other 921 (upstairs) doesn't have the bad guide, only the one downstairs has it. Both 921s shipped to me as new units at the same time and are very close serial number wise.


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

I'd bet your download to the one 921 got corrupted and lost a font. You might be screwed until the next download spools. Maybe you can call the adv tech at E* and see if they have a way to resend just one machine a new download of L185. Easy way would be to disconnect the good 921 before calling them. When I was at CES2004, one engineer told me they can do that with the 921 because it is designed to rebuild a bad download operation without the need to be returned to E*. Not sure if all the adv techs in CSR group know about this. If you get into a bind and need a contact phone number I have the engineer's phone number but do try the normal route first.


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## Florindi (Feb 17, 2004)

Hi All, 
I now have this same problem. My unit has been fine besides the OTA stretch issues. WTF is going on with this screwed up guide?
How do I resolve this problem?


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## Florindi (Feb 17, 2004)

Could this be a problem due to the reboots everynight?


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

No - there is something wrong with your particular 921s. I'm just about convinced of that. If it were a software or rebooting issue, the different looking guide would be showing up on everyone's 921. 

If you look at your system information screen, is your software version still L185HECD-N, or is it L185HECD-F? (N is normal, F means you've got a problem).


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## Florindi (Feb 17, 2004)

Mark, 
How do I approach this problem? Do I need to get a replacement? I spoke with Dish this morning and they have no info on this issue. How do I get a replacement? What about all my saved programs? I have been archiving many programs for months. I don't want to loose all these programs. Can I dump this to a DVD burner? Also, the res. is going to look worse outputting thru composite.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Florindi, I don't know. First look at your sysinfo screen and let's rule out that first. If you do end up needing a replacement, then yes you're going to lose your programs. You can connect to a DVD burner via composite or svideo and dump your programs that way, but they will be in SD, not HD.


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## Florindi (Feb 17, 2004)

Mark,
I look at my info when I get home today.


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## sampatterson (Aug 27, 2002)

I'll have my wife check when she gets back home... I think it is an N, I would have noticed an F.


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## sampatterson (Aug 27, 2002)

She checked. Current version on my 921 is: L185HECD-N


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## Florindi (Feb 17, 2004)

My info is the same L185HECD-N


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## TVBob (Dec 19, 2003)

Hi guys. Long time no post.

I'm also having all the symptoms described here. I agree with Don Landis that it's behaving like font corruption, or like alternate guide font and graphics have been selected by mistake.

The only thing different for me on this download was that I noticed it while it was happening, and went to the software update screen to monitor progress.

For me, L185 did _not_ install itself automatically no matter how many times I put the unit in standby. I had to pull the plug, and wait 2 minutes, before L185 installed itself on a cold boot. The guide font was fine for a day or so (I think), then the new small font showed up. I sure would like to know how to get back the old font. I miss the red dots and the different colors.

On a 34" monitor, the new font is just too small. Also, the show description text is transparent, so if you have the "lock" symbol displayed, it shows through, making the text box at the top left harder to read.


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## Florindi (Feb 17, 2004)

I spent over 1/2 hour on the phone with adv tech. The usual waste of time. Anyway, I am probably on my way to my 3rd unit. What a f--king joy! I should of dumped this thing within the first three months. I also have problems with it receiving 61.5 today. I had a power outage last night. It seems as if it's the culprit.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

I'm working on this one guys. I'll let you know what I find out as soon as I know anything new.


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## paulcdavis (Jan 22, 2004)

Last January I had a similar guide corruption after the L145 download. I had yellow boxes around tiny fonts, no red dots in guide and only six lines of channels in the guide display. (I was new to the forum and did not take pictures). Advanced Tech support had me jump through all the usual hoops to no avail and said to return the unit. I thought it was just corrupted software (although it also said -N) and decided to wait until after the next software download before returning the unit for replacement. 

After the next software download the guide returned to normal and has remained so since then.

I was unable at that time to get anyone at Dish to force another download and still think that the software updates screen should have a "download again" button to force the unit to take the software again.

If you can live with a screwed up guide for a few weeks it will probably get fixed with the next download.

As more 921 units become operational, the number of units that will fail to install a download correctly on the first (and only) try will most likely increase.


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## sampatterson (Aug 27, 2002)

Since this is really my first bug with the 921 I can wait for the update.


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## rraybin (Jan 17, 2004)

When I record a show, the title is often wrong, showing the previous program. It is impossible to figure out what shows are recorded since it does not even display the air date and time. Is this a problem for anyone else?


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## ksquared (Feb 2, 2004)

The Guide is working for me tonight. I just noticed I now have version
L186HECD-N now, so I'm guessing a new software load cleared it up.

Yeah!!!

Regards,
K^2
Ver: L186ECD-N
Boot: 120B
Flash: F051
D500 twin legacy plus D300 at 148 into 2 x SW-21


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## TVBob (Dec 19, 2003)

L186 must have auto-installed when I wasn't looking. The small font problem in the Guide is fixed for me too! 

I'm sure glad we didn't have to wait a month for this.


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## Florindi (Feb 17, 2004)

Same here! I hope it doesn't get corrupted again


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## sampatterson (Aug 27, 2002)

L186 fixed my problem, the guide is back to normal.


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## Dustin_Moore (Aug 8, 2003)

This anomoly happened to me yesterday. 

Guess it's still not fixed for good yet in L187, hopefully L188 will come soon.


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## cmaier (Nov 5, 2002)

Just started for me with L188. :-(


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## Cyclone (Jul 1, 2002)

Ok, I can't stand turning my head sideways anymore.


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## cmaier (Nov 5, 2002)

Yeah, that's what I am seeing, but shifted up a half line so the top of the show title is cut off.

Talked to advance tech last night - she had no clue and had never heard of this before. They took some notes and shoed me away.


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## oblio98 (Sep 17, 2002)

This is happening to me too! The top section is cut off, but I know the screen is calibrated (to the HDNet test patterns). It's pretty annoying, to say the least.

:-jon


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

I'm assuming here that you guys have tried a power plug reboot and a reset factory defaults? I have no idea what's causing this, and I've never seen it on mine.


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## cmaier (Nov 5, 2002)

Yeah, I tried both those things. Other than losing all my favorites lists neither served any purpose. 

I am assuming we are seeing some sort of "default" guide software routine and that the update somehow wasn't complete so it falls back to it or something.


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## boatdrink (Aug 20, 2004)

After working fine for several weeks, my 921 just developed the same guide problem. The font got very small and there is a flicker showing up only in the guide. I am running L188 which I assume everyone else is also. The top of the guide is now cut off of the screen. It happens both when the transparent mode is on or off.


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## cmaier (Nov 5, 2002)

According to the 921 guys, they are working on it and the next software update (mid oct.) should solve it. Hope so, it's driving me nutty. (if not, i'll just demand a new box. paid too much to have the main way I browse and program so screwed up).


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## scpanel (Jun 13, 2004)

I just noticed it on mine too this morning and called DISH, but the tech support folks didn't seem to have heard about it at all. They told me to check back in a few days. So I decided to check here.

I have tried a soft, hard reboot, a factory reset and even a smart card reset before I called. So something happend since last night to mine. All the other menu's etc are fine and have the correct font.


L188HECD-N
Boot 140B
Flash F052


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## scpanel (Jun 13, 2004)

Any word when this will get fixed. Mark, is what cmaier says valid and this will be fixed in the 189 release mid-month? Its just unreadable.

L188HECD-N
Boot 140B
Flash F052


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## cmaier (Nov 5, 2002)

I called again today because when I called a week ago they said that a 921 specialist would call me back with more information.

After putting up with "did you try changing the guide format?"-type questions for about a half hour, I got frustrated and was finally told that "the 921 specialists are very busy" and, essentially, I should be grateful that everything else works on the box. They don't seem to get that when you spend $1000 on something you kind of expect it to work properly.

I think I've about had it with E*. I spend a ton of money with them and I can't even get them to return a call. May be time for a switch now that D* seems to have some HD stuff happening.


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## scpanel (Jun 13, 2004)

I called again today and was told that they do not know about this at all, which is impossible as I called weeks ago along with some of the rest of you. So I am waiting for 189 at this point to see if it solves the problem.


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## cmaier (Nov 5, 2002)

I've been waiting over 2 weeks for a call back from the "921 support " team about it. At this point i've decided to wait and see what 189 brings; if it fixes the guide, great, and if not, i switch to D*. I don't mind beta testing their released hardware for years on end, but I do mind the fact that when there's a problem with it i get no response, especially when they promise one.



scpanel said:


> I called again today and was told that they do not know about this at all, which is impossible as I called weeks ago along with some of the rest of you. So I am waiting for 189 at this point to see if it solves the problem.


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## jamullian (May 7, 2004)

Darn it, it has happened to me too now. Went away for the weekend last week and came back to find small fonts, no red button on scheduled timers. Power cord reset hasn't dislodged it. Now I really believe in gremlins ...


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## cnwade (Jul 18, 2004)

With L188 I got hit with the "default font on the guide" bug last Friday night. Three calls to adv tech support and they have no clue: all wanted me to change the CC font; every form of re-boot and reset, etc., all to no avail. Was told they turned my call into an "unusual event" (or some whacky term) and I would get a call from 921 specialists "in the next day or two".

Had not received that call, so dialed back in today. Adv tech rep had never heard of DBSTALK website, so I gave him the URL to this thread and supposedly he forwarded it on to whomever - with a promise that I will hear back from them within 24-48 hours. Yeah, right.

Hopefully, a successful download of L189 could fix the guide issue?


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## cmaier (Nov 5, 2002)

On Oct. 11 they told me I'd get a call in 24-48 hrs. 48 hrs ago (when i was calling to deal with a 721 problem) they told me the same thing. Yep. Sure.


Right now i'm just hoping to get my 721 problem resolved - I have no guide at all (that is, the guide screen won't come up). I guess it's there, but it's just too transparent ;-)


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## Jason Nipp (Jun 10, 2004)

ksquared said:


> The TV picture looks fine but the guide has a horrible flicker
> and the new font is almost too small to read from my normal viewing position.


 To user ksquared, I received an email response from a contact I have at Echostar. He asks me to post his response to your comments. It's a day late and for that I apologize...I was out of the office yesterday.

Regards,
Jason

Echostar comments:

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 12:47 PM
To: 'Nipper, Jason [EAC/ELG]'
Subject: RE: Issue from User

Jason,

Can you do me a favor?

I see in this thread (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=29479) that ksquared is having some problems with his guide. It seems to be flickering. I believe that I have a fix for his problem. Some customers have adjusted the position of their screen and this has caused a flicker on menus. Can you advise him to reset to factory defaults and see how that works for him.

Thanks,
Jamie


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Thanks Jason - that's good to know!


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## cmaier (Nov 5, 2002)

Reset to factory defaults will do nothing about the main point of this thread - the wrong font with the weird shadows, missing bottom line of the guide, white boxes around text, lack of red dots next to programs set for recording, and the slight upward screen shift in the guide. (I tried that months ago).

Perhaps it solves "flickering" but that's the least of our problems.


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## Maddogg (Sep 15, 2003)

I'm also having all the symptoms described here. Started 2 days ago. I have called tech support 3 times and spent over an hour each time on the phone. They all eventually pass me off to advanced tech support and tell me they will call me tomorrow. Each evening I call, same routine but no calls from advanced tech and no solution. The guide looks awful. Very tiny fonts, difficult to read, no red dot, no color change, etc. All other functions are OK and the picture is OK. Changing the aspect ratio, resolution, reboots, resets, etc. have no affect on the guide.


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## cmaier (Nov 5, 2002)

Welcome to the club. Sorry :-(

If it makes you feel better, I'm pretty sure all we need is a reload of our software, so the next software version should solve it if it ever shows up.

What ticks me off is every time you call dish they say they never heard of it, and the 921 support team refuses to call back or comment on it.


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## Maddogg (Sep 15, 2003)

Is this how DISH chooses to treat it's high end customers? At least be up-front about the problems and admit there is an issue here. This "wait for someone to call" and the "Oh really? we never heard of this" is getting old. We have put up with a lot. Fixing something that was not originally broken is not too much to ask.


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## Jason Nipp (Jun 10, 2004)

cmaier said:


> Reset to factory defaults will do nothing about the main point of this thread - the wrong font with the weird shadows, missing bottom line of the guide, white boxes around text, lack of red dots next to programs set for recording, and the slight upward screen shift in the guide. (I tried that months ago).
> 
> Perhaps it solves "flickering" but that's the least of our problems.


Sorry, I do not have a 921...I was just passing on an emailed response...I do not work for Echostar so please don't shoot the messenger, I was trying to help.

Jason


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## cnwade (Jul 18, 2004)

I got 211'd today - guide finally back to "normal". Yippee!

My only remaining gripe is that (without a BUNCH of button presses) DVR's selected from the future guide can only be extended 29 minutes past the end. This issue was fixed on the 721 long ago!

My guess is the 921 programmers are all NHL fans and none of their games are going into OT nowadays.... ;-)


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## Slordak (Dec 17, 2003)

So... This problem just started happening to me the other day, a few days after the L211 upgrade. It didn't happen at the time of the upgrade or after a full "power cord reboot" either; it just happened one night. I'd never previously had it with any of the other software versions, so this is new to me. All I know is that now the guide has the wrong font and all of the bounding boxes are undecorated and shifted. Was it ever determined what exactly causes this, or if there's any way to fix it from the user side?

Grrr. I assume I have to wait until the next software update, at which point in time the problem may or may not go away on its own?


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

There's nothing that we can do about it on the user side, and the only way that I've seen it go away is with a new software update. I suspect it's caused by something getting corrupted.


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## Slordak (Dec 17, 2003)

Great; one step forward, two steps back. This device needs some sort of better software recovery or fail-safe mechanism, so that if something does get corrupted or otherwise set to a bad value, the unit can safely recover. Ironically, the 921 is actually worse in this regard than older receivers which actually can completely recover their software if corrupted.


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