# AT&T TV / AT&T TV Now - Pricing Thread (Premier pkg launched 7/29/20)



## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

So AT&T's launch of the streaming version of Premier is finally here and is available on both AT&T TV and AT&T TV Now. The main channel lineups for both services haven't been updated yet but the Premier pkg is available to purchase during sign-up.

*AT&T TV* (Featured Package)
*Price:* $183.00/mo (regular price) / $129.99/mo (for the first 12 months)
Regional Sports Fee applies (up to $8.49/mo)
24 month agreement req'd for new customers.
1 AT&T TV device included

*AT&T TV Now *(Other Package)
Price: $183/mo (regular price) / No introductory pricing
*No* Regional Sports Fee
*No *agreement
Bring your own device

Just like with all other packages Premier also includes 3 concurrent streams and the 500 Hours / 90 Days Cloud DVR. This new package includes all the channels in AT&T TV / TV Now Ultimate plus Hallmark Movies & Mysteries, HBO Max, Cinemax, Starz & Showtime. Movies Extra Pack, Epix & Spanish add-ons are *not included*.

The AT&T TV / AT&T TV Now version of Premier is $14 cheaper than *DirecTV Premier* which is $197/mo (this is comparing it to the All-Included version with a Genie HD-DVR receiver for 1 TV). I am thinking the reason the AT&T TV / AT&T TV Now version is cheaper than the DirecTV version is due to AT&T TV / AT&T TV Now lacking a "Sports Pack" that DirecTV has.

If you have a 3 room w/ Whole Home HD-DVR setup with DirecTV Premier then AT&T TV Now Premier would be $28-$37.99 cheaper since AT&T TV Now doesn't have an RSN fee.
Even if you go with AT&T TV Premier comparing the 2nd year (aka Regular) price to DTV Premier with the same setup you will still save around $28 - $30 because AT&T TV's RSN fee is slightly lower than DirecTV's RSN fee.
Interesting tidbit you can add both Movies Extra Pack & Epix to AT&T TV / TV Now Premier and the price would still be cheaper than DirecTV Premier with 1 Genie DVR. (AT&T TV / TV Now Premier w/ Movies Extra Pack & Epix is $194/mo; D* Premier w/ 1 Genie DVR without Movies Extra Pack & Epix is $197/mo.)


----------



## b4pjoe (Nov 20, 2010)

So in the post above you show Premier on DirecTV as $197.00 per month and if I go to their website and view their packages it also shows the price as $197.00. I currently have Premier and I am being charged $174.99 for it. Does that mean there will be a $22.01 increase in the near future for Premier?


----------



## mjwagner (Oct 8, 2005)

Yikes, those price points seem out of touch with the current reality. But what do I know, I’m not a genius like the AT&T execs...


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

mjwagner said:


> Yikes, those price points seem out of touch with the current reality. But what do I know, I'm not a genius like the AT&T execs...


LMAO!!! Then reality sets in and I realize I'm paying that much now. For sports I can't get.

Rich


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

b4pjoe said:


> I currently have Premier and I am being charged $174.99 for it. Does that mean there will be a $22.01 increase in the near future for Premier?


A review of your bill would surely be useful here. Any discounts you're currently receiving should be itemized.

Between DIRECTV and AT&T there are several pricing schedules depending on when you subscribed so you can't necessarily compare your situation directly to the current offers.


----------



## b4pjoe (Nov 20, 2010)

I am getting a $20 per month discount on Premier only. The bill lists Premier as $174.99 and with the $20 per month I'm actually paying $154.99. That discount rolls off on 8/27/20.


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

What is the bottom line on your bill?

"All Included" plans are around $20+ more than older plans where you pay for receiver, whole home and DVR fees because those fees are rolled into the package pricing with "All Included".

Are you in the DIRECTV billing system or the AT&T billing system?

There are no fewer than four price schedules for Premiere service depending on when you signed up. Early plans have several different fees while later plan have fewer (in count) fees. There may even be some left who don't pay a receiver fee for their first receiver.


----------



## b4pjoe (Nov 20, 2010)

Basically I am just talking about the price of the Premier plan but here it is.


----------



## wmb (Dec 18, 2008)

harsh said:


> What is the bottom line on your bill?


Isn't that the big problem with these maxi packages offered by AT&T? For that price, I can pay for internet, You Tube TV, HBO Max, Showtime, Cinemax, and Starz. And that includes internet (pointing that out because it's still an expense you have with the AT&T TV Premier package). So the AT&T TV packages actually costs over $250 per month when you add internet.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

wmb said:


> Isn't that the big problem with these maxi packages offered by AT&T? For that price, I can pay for internet, You Tube TV, HBO Max, Showtime, Cinemax, and Starz. And that includes internet (pointing that out because it's still an expense you have with the AT&T TV Premier package). So the AT&T TV packages actually costs over $250 per month when you add internet.


There's little question that AT&T is asking for much higher than the going rate. The question will be which will change: the going rate or the AT&T's asking price. I think the cow is out of the barn on being able to demand commitments along with well above average pricing.

Your concerns about not including broadband in the price aren't lost on me. As 4k becomes more popular and broadband caps seem to be imposed on more users as time goes on, having to pay extra for unlimited service becomes a pretty big deal.

My comments were directed specifically towards why one person's bill might be substantially different from the current published price or what anyone else might be paying.


----------



## b4pjoe (Nov 20, 2010)

wmb said:


> Isn't that the big problem with these maxi packages offered by AT&T? For that price, I can pay for internet, You Tube TV, HBO Max, Showtime, Cinemax, and Starz. And that includes internet (pointing that out because it's still an expense you have with the AT&T TV Premier package). So the AT&T TV packages actually costs over $250 per month when you add internet.


I would have the internet service no matter what TV service I am using. Even with no TV service I'd still have internet.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

b4pjoe said:


> I would have the internet service no matter what TV service I am using. Even with no TV service I'd still have internet.


I will also pay for Internet regardless of TV choice ... but streaming pushes me closer to overage charges. So the choice becomes whether I want to pay more for Internet to get an unlimited plan or watch less streaming to stay under the cap. My normal Internet use is well below the cap ... work from home has increased my normal usage leaving less room for streaming before bandwidth becomes an issue.


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

b4pjoe said:


> Basically I am just talking about the price of the Premier plan but here it is.


As I alluded to previously, there are some additional fee/charge line items that you're billed for that someone with an "All Included" package has included in their programming package price.

You're paying at least $23 ($10 for DVR service, $10 for HD service and $3 for Whole Home DVR service) that are included in the $197.99 Premier All Included programming package.

Clearly, the bottom line is the only number that counts.


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

b4pjoe said:


> I would have the internet service no matter what TV service I am using. Even with no TV service I'd still have internet.


The difference is whether or not you need a higher speed tier and possibly a no-cap add-on if your usage demands it (something that could easily come into play households with two or more active streamers). I'm pretty sure I could live with a service that costs less than $30 if I weren't streaming videos.


----------



## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

b4pjoe said:


> So in the post above you show Premier on DirecTV as $197.00 per month and if I go to their website and view their packages it also shows the price as $197.00. I currently have Premier and I am being charged $174.99 for it. Does that mean there will be a $22.01 increase in the near future for Premier?


Depending on when you signed up depends on your pricing structure. Since AT&T has moved towards pushing Genie hardware (and not the Genie Lite) the All Included packages include the ARS fees and so many TVs as part of the price. Customers who are on the Itemized Pricing Structure will see Premier as $174.99/mo with all the ARS and TV fees listed separately.

For example I'm on the pricing model from 7/24/2014 so if I were to have Premier my bill would show (without my discounts from AT&T Wireless):

Premier $174.99
Advanced Receiver Service $15.00
Watch DIRECTV on 3 TVs $21.00
Regional Sports Fee $9.99
The subtotal for that above would be $220.98/mo before taxes.

Here is a complete breakdown of all the DirecTV pricing models and how they compare to AT&T TV and AT&T TV Now (Premier is the example package for all):


----------



## b4pjoe (Nov 20, 2010)

James Long said:


> I will also pay for Internet regardless of TV choice ... but streaming pushes me closer to overage charges. So the choice becomes whether I want to pay more for Internet to get an unlimited plan or watch less streaming to stay under the cap. My normal Internet use is well below the cap ... work from home has increased my normal usage leaving less room for streaming before bandwidth becomes an issue.





harsh said:


> The difference is whether or not you need a higher speed tier and possibly a no-cap add-on if your usage demands it (something that could easily come into play households with two or more active streamers). I'm pretty sure I could live with a service that costs less than $30 if I weren't streaming videos.


I have Spectrum internet 200/10. No data caps (*YET*). Same price as it was for 100/10. When 200/10 was available in my area it was a free upgrade. Currently it is $69.99 per month. I would have that same internet service whether I had TV service or streaming service. The only other option here is a local telco with 30/5 for $36.00 per month.


----------



## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

@b4pjoe When comparing prices for AT&T TV / AT&T TV Now to DirecTV the easiest way is to use the All Included 1 TV pricing model since that is now the only pricing model AT&T is now selling for DirecTV. The 2020 prices for Entertainment - Ultimate & Optimo Mas on AT&T TV and AT&T TV Now are the 2019 prices for the DirecTV All Included 1 TV versions. AT&T TV's RSN Fee is also using the 2019 DTV pricing that's why AT&T TV's RSN fee goes up to $8.49 meanwhile D*'s RSN fee goes up to $9.99.

Essentially all AT&T did was combine the ARS fees and the 1st TV fee with the package price for the All Included versions after D* had so many advertising complaints because the most common complaint for DirecTV was they were advertising 1 price but the bill was at least $21 higher than advertised. Ever since 7/24/14 there was no possible way a new customer could get the advertised price since D* started charging $7/mo for the Primary TV.

For example when D* used to sell say... Select for $29.99/mo for 12 months and by the time the $15 ARS fee and the $7 Primary TV fee was added (since the lead offer was to get HD-DVR or Genie) the introductory price became $51.99/mo for 12 months. There was no way for any customer to get the $29.99/mo advertised introductory rate.

So AT&T created the All Included packages which combined the ARS fees with so many TVs. AT&T experimented with 3 different variations before they settled on making the All Included 1 TV variation permanent. Customers who have the All Included 1 TV variant pays almost the same as someone who has Premier ($174.99) + ARS ($15) + 1 TV ($7).

Now with the All Included 1 TV pricing model when AT&T advertises Select for $59.99/mo for 12 months the customer gets the $59.99 advertised price. The only time this varies is when they add additional receivers. (This covers AT&T's arse from legal repercussions if a customer complains AT&T can now say "Hey they wanted additional TVs and we told them they would be $7/mo/per additional receiver.")

When the yearly price increases come around all variations increase by the same amount. Like in 2020 Premier went up by $8/mo this increase was the same on the itemized versions of Premier and all variations of Premier (All Included).

So just because your paying $174.99/mo for Premier (before discounts) this does not mean your Premier package will increase by $22.01 in the near future. You just have the ability to remove DVR receivers for HD-only receivers and not pay the extra ARS-DVR ($10) and WH-DVR ($3) fees. (AT&T however will charge a one time fee of $99 per HD receiver if you downgrade from Genie.) All Included customers are not given this option as all the ARS/WH-DVR fees and the first TV is built into their package price.

That is the only difference between Itemized billing vs All Included billing.


----------



## b4pjoe (Nov 20, 2010)

Thanks for that explanation. Looking at the att.com website switching to AT&T TV Premier I could get it for $129.99/mo (for the first 12 months) with Regional Sports Fee of $8.49. I could reduce my bill from (before taxes) $238.37 to $138.48 (for first year). Which would be $191.49 in the second year. But I would l lose Sports Pack and the ability to get MLB EI and NFL ST. Tempting...I'd be saving $99.88 per month the first year and $46.88 per month the second year. Plus I'd get a $100 gift card. If only they could offer MLB EI and NFL ST I'd jump on it.

Edit...Is the MLB-TV app available on the AT&T TV box?


----------



## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

b4pjoe said:


> Thanks for that explanation. Looking at the att.com website switching to AT&T TV Premier I could get it for $129.99/mo (for the first 12 months) with Regional Sports Fee of $8.49. I could reduce my bill from (before taxes) $238.37 to $138.48 (for first year). Which would be $191.49 in the second year. But I would l lose Sports Pack and the ability to get MLB EI and NFL ST. Tempting...I'd be saving $99.88 per month the first year and $46.88 per month the second year. Plus I'd get a $100 gift card. If only they could offer MLB EI and NFL ST I'd jump on it.
> 
> Edit...Is the MLB-TV app available on the AT&T TV box?


Your welcome. Yes MLB TV app is available on the AT&T TV device. In fact you can sign up directly with MLB, NBA and NHL and use their apps on the AT&T TV device. Here is a list I compiled when I had AT&T TV Now Max + Osprey.

It is a little outdated because this was before the launches of HBO Max & Peacock. HBO Max & Peacock *work *with the AT&T TV device. Something I didn't pay much attention to at the time if you have VRV Premium a lot of Shout Factory content is available on the VRV Selects channel through VRV Premium with no commercials.

Prime Video and Hulu's apps currently don't support the AT&T TV device but you can use the built-in Chromecast feature and cast content from those apps to the AT&T TV device (or side-load them.)


----------



## b4pjoe (Nov 20, 2010)

One other question. If a DirecTV user cancels his sat service are they eligible for the 12 month new pricing discount and the $100 gift card at AT&T TV?


----------



## compnurd (Apr 23, 2007)

b4pjoe said:


> One other question. If a DirecTV user cancels his sat service are they eligible for the 12 month new pricing discount and the $100 gift card at AT&T TV?


Yes. I just did it and the mlb app works great on the osprey box


----------



## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

b4pjoe said:


> One other question. If a DirecTV user cancels his sat service are they eligible for the 12 month new pricing discount and the $100 gift card at AT&T TV?


That I'm not sure of. I haven't tried to order AT&T TV because I'm happy with DirecTV right now where I have the $25 Video Loyalty Credit and free HBO Max where I got Unlimited Plus when the $25 Video Loyalty Credit was being offered. I was able to upgrade from Unlimited Plus to Unlimited Elite and keep my Video Loyalty Credit. For me my Select package ($62.99) + ARS ($15) and 3 TVs ($21) comes out to be $73.99 with my Video Loyalty Credit. I currently pay for Movies Extra Pack & Epix as add-ons with an additional $10/12 loyalty discount so right now I pay $74.97/mo before tax.


----------



## b4pjoe (Nov 20, 2010)

My contract is up early September and my discount rolls off at the end of August. If I can't get at least $50 per month off I'll probably move to something else. Maybe AT&T TV but not sure how drastic I want to get. Also supposed to get free NFL ST Max this year according to an email from AT&T in May. Of course that is worthless if there is no NFL season and personally I don't see how they can have a full contact sport this fall. So just looking at all options right now.


----------



## wmb (Dec 18, 2008)

b4pjoe said:


> I have Spectrum internet 200/10. No data caps (*YET*). Same price as it was for 100/10. When 200/10 was available in my area it was a free upgrade. Currently it is $69.99 per month. I would have that same internet service whether I had TV service or streaming service. The only other option here is a local telco with 30/5 for $36.00 per month.


Here Spectrum has 400 internet and basic TV bundle for $45 each. You can upgrade to the Silver TV pack for another $30. I think my all-in cost would cost about $125/mo with land line and include HBO Max and Showtime. You can also use their AppleTV app that works like YouTube TV. My recollection was no data caps.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## wmb (Dec 18, 2008)

harsh said:


> There's little question that AT&T is asking for much higher than the going rate. The question will be which will change: the going rate or the AT&T's asking price. I think the cow is out of the barn on being able to demand commitments along with well above average pricing.


You Tube TV is definitely an interesting case study in this regard. They have gone up about $25 over the past 2 years in conjunction with channel adds. Their lineup is now somewhat equal to the mid tier (no premiums) offered by AT&T, but at a lower price. I'm also sure they are doing substantial price modeling.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## I WANT MORE (Oct 3, 2006)

ATTTV NOW should be FREE to all D* subscribers.


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

I WANT MORE said:


> ATTTV NOW should be FREE to all D* subscribers.


What would be the point of that?


----------



## compnurd (Apr 23, 2007)

harsh said:


> What would be the point of that?


Yeh Really Just use the Directv App


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

On the Local into Local (LIL) channel front, it appears that AT&T TV only offers the big four in my area. DIRECTV offers ten LIL channels in my market.

You need to confirm the channels you're interested in (both local and national) as even though the package names are the same, there are more than a few channels on DIRECTV that aren't on AT&T TV and they aren't all East-West duplicates.


----------



## NashGuy (Jan 30, 2014)

b4pjoe said:


> One other question. If a DirecTV user cancels his sat service are they eligible for the 12 month new pricing discount and the $100 gift card at AT&T TV?


Just FYI, the other day when I was messing around pricing AT&T TV, after adding it to my cart and letting the screen sit there for a minute, a pop-up appeared offering me an additional $50 gift card, making for a total of $150 in gift cards. (And that's just for AT&T TV by itself. Adding AT&T Fiber scores you hundreds more, although I know it's not available where you live.)


----------



## krel (Mar 20, 2013)

wmb said:


> Here Spectrum has 400 internet and basic TV bundle for $45 each. You can upgrade to the Silver TV pack for another $30. I think my all-in cost would cost about $125/mo with land line and include HBO Max and Showtime. You can also use their AppleTV app that works like YouTube TV. My recollection was no data caps.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


and once that deal runs out spectrum will not give you any more deals unless you cancel for 30 days what a PIA


----------



## krel (Mar 20, 2013)

i wouldn't do it all because of the price hike and the two year contract. i wonder how many subs att tv has. and with att's CSRS i would run like hell from most of them there's very few there that are well trained and know what there doing here in merica but the ones over seas forget it


----------



## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

In all honestly if I was looking to get almost every channel through streaming that one could get through a high tier traditional MVPD package I would do this:

AT&T TV Now Max + Epix - $86 - Primary service has locals, RSNs, Cinemax & HBO Max - Only add-on I would chose is Epix (while AT&T TV Now doesn't have Epix Drive-In, Sling TV does in the base package.)
Sling TV Blue + Total TV Deal + Showtime - $60.99 - Fills in the channel gaps that AT&T TV Now lacks (AMC/A&E/Discovery), has Epix Drive-In, beIN Sports & Pac-12 Networks and the league sports channels (except NFL Network). I would get Showtime through Sling because they have all the Showtime multiplex channels.
Hulu (base ad-supported VOD plan) + Starz - $14.98 - Hulu has all linear Starz, StarzEncore & MoviePlex channels + access to the Starz app
*Total Monthly Cost - $161.97/mo* - This setup is $21.03 cheaper than just getting the Premier package from AT&T TV Now. Another perk for channels that are on both AT&T TV Now & Sling TV Blue (Disney's FX & National Geographic channels, ViacomCBS, NBCUniversal & WarnerMedia) one would get a total of 6 concurrent streams instead of 3 concurrent streams if you just had one of those services.)


----------



## b4pjoe (Nov 20, 2010)

techguy88 said:


> In all honestly if I was looking to get almost every channel through streaming that one could get through a high tier traditional MVPD package I would do this:
> 
> AT&T TV Now Max + Epix - $86 - Primary service has locals, RSNs, Cinemax & HBO Max - Only add-on I would chose is Epix (while AT&T TV Now doesn't have Epix Drive-In, Sling TV does in the base package.)
> Sling TV Blue + Total TV Deal + Showtime - $60.99 - Fills in the channel gaps that AT&T TV Now lacks (AMC/A&E/Discovery), has Epix Drive-In, beIN Sports & Pac-12 Networks and the league sports channels (except NFL Network). I would get Showtime through Sling because they have all the Showtime multiplex channels.
> ...


Something like that would work for me other than my wife would have a nervous breakdown with all that switching around.


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

techguy88 said:


> AT&T TV Now Max + Epix - $86 - Primary service has locals, RSNs, Cinemax & HBO Max - Only add-on I would chose is Epix (while AT&T TV Now doesn't have Epix Drive-In, Sling TV does in the base package.)


Do you get most of your locals or just the big four?

Is the CW they offer a national feed?

My market gets the big four broadcast stations (ABC, CBS, Fox and NBC) and zero RSNs through AT&T TV Now. I couldn't recommend a relatively expensive combo that doesn't include the local PBS. Having to add something as robust as Sling blue may represent a lot of app jumping.

I submit that AT&T TV Now is decidedly weak as a primary service.


----------



## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

b4pjoe said:


> Something like that would work for me other than my wife would have a nervous breakdown with all that switching around.


AT&T is selling that connivance factor for $21.03 extra per month ROFL. Although in all seriousness if one gets AT&T TV Premier with a 24 month contract the cost almost evens out:

Months 1-12: AT&T TV Premier would be $138.48 ($129.99 + $8.49 RSN fee). 
The introductory discount is $53.01/mo for 12 months (a $636.12 value in savings)

Months 13-24: The price would go to regular at $191.49/mo ($183 + $8.49 RSN fee.)
If you take the $636.12 value of the discount and divide it by 24 months that comes out to be about $26.50/mo which for the life of the contract would mean AT&T TV Premier costed an average of $164.99/mo before sales tax for the entire duration of the 24 month contract (assuming AT&T TV has no price increases at the beginning of 2021.)

If you factor in the value of the included AT&T TV device ($120) plus the $150 in gift cards they are offering (as of this post) to make an online order that makes the average price drop to $153.73/mo for AT&T TV Premier.

However the best money saving option for AT&T TV is going with AT&T TV Ultimate for year 1 and AT&T TV Premier in year 2 (if you really want Cinemax, Showtime, Starz). Starting out with AT&T TV Ultimate will net you 3 months free of Epix, Cinemax, Showtime & Starz and get you HBO Max free for 1 year.

AT&T TV Ultimate + HBO Max, Cinemax, Showtime & Starz
Months 1-3: *$88.48/mo* ($79.99 + $8.49 RSN Fee) 
[$55.01 off the regular rate of Ultimate for 12 months (a $660.12 value)] [Epix, Cinemax, Showtime, Starz free for 3 months (a $117.00 value).] [HBO Max free for 1 year (a $179.88 value.)] 

Months 4-12: *$121.48/mo* ($79.99 + $8.49 RSN Fee + $33 for Cinemax, Showtime, Starz)
This is assuming you cancel Epix after 3 months but keep the other 3 premiums.

Starting Month 13 - Switch to AT&T TV Premier: *$191.49/mo *($183 + $8.49 RSN Fee)
Starting in Month 13 Ultimate + HBO Max, Cinemax, Starz & Showtime would be the same as Premier so switching to Premier gets you Hallmark Movies & Mysteries without the Movies Extra Pack.


So if you go with Ultimate + 4 Premiums for year 1 and switch to Premier for year 2 the average monthly price would be *$152.36/mo*. Then if you factor in the value of the included AT&T TV device plus the $150 in gift cards that average monthly price drops to *$141.11/mo* for the life of the 24 month commitment.


----------



## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

harsh said:


> Do you get most of your locals or just the big four?
> 
> Is the CW they offer a national feed?
> 
> ...


With AT&T TV / AT&T TV Now I get the Big 4 (ABC, NBC, CBS & Fox) with DirecTV I get 9 locals (the Big 4 plus CW, MyNetworkTV/MeTV, Ion and 2 PBS stations.) However for me a friend gave me their old Tablo Whole Home Network DVR so I have an antenna connected to that to pick up my ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox, CW, Ion and main PBS station and I get all their digital subchannels.

The CW is not a huge loss for me because it is in a duopoly with the NBC station (so if I miss the 10:00pm news I can just watch the NBC affiliate at 11:00pm.) I believe there is CW On Demand on AT&T TV/TV Now (IIRC) but for the CW shows in particular I just used the free CW app to watch them next day.

Also I have Netflix & HBO Max so I'm really not missing CW shows as the shows that debuted before or during 2018-2019 TV season since they are added to Netflix after their season ends. HBO Max has the new WB produced shows that debut starting with the 2019-2020 television season and beyond.

With the Tablo app on my 3 Apple TVs and my iPhone I can watch those locals anywhere in my home. If I chose to pay for their enhanced Guide service I could take my locals out of my home along with any recordings from them.

Personally if a service has at least the Big 4 local stations that's okay with me because there are other ways to get the main programming from other locals.


----------



## b4pjoe (Nov 20, 2010)

techguy88 said:


> AT&T is selling that connivance factor for $21.03 extra per month ROFL. Although in all seriousness if one gets AT&T TV Premier with a 24 month contract the cost almost evens out:
> 
> Months 1-12: AT&T TV Premier would be $138.48 ($129.99 + $8.49 RSN fee).
> The introductory discount is $53.01/mo for 12 months (a $636.12 value in savings)
> ...


I will consider that once my contract expires in September. I'm definitely wanting to do something different unless there is an NFL season and they indeed are going to give me NFL ST Max as promised AND a healthy monthly discount on my Premier package after my very small $20 discount rolls off August 28. Just can't do it right now and pay for two premium TV services for 2 months.


----------



## krel (Mar 20, 2013)

b4pjoe said:


> Something like that would work for me other than my wife would have a nervous breakdown with all that switching around.


my GF is gonna have a nervous brakedown when i swap out the genie


----------



## NashGuy (Jan 30, 2014)

b4pjoe said:


> Something like that would work for me other than my wife would have a nervous breakdown with all that switching around.


Yeah. If I was inclined to spend $162 on cable TV, I think I'd just go ahead and spend another $21 on top of it to get everything in one UI/system with a custom-designed remote control for it from AT&T TV rather than having to hop around between the apps for AT&T TV, Sling and Hulu.

I'm very interested to see what the forthcoming reimagined version of TVision from T-Mobile will look like. We already know that, like AT&T TV, it will come with a customized Android TV streamer and full-function dedicated remote control (see below).

















When T-Mo's former CEO talked about a future OTT TV service, he said they weren't interested in trying to offer skinny bundles, as that was something already being done by more than one OTT service. So I think TVision will remain a full-freight cable TV service offering the full range of channels, although maybe we'll see them offer a smaller, less expensive starting tier than the $90 package they sell now. And given T-Mo's whole "uncarrier" schtick, I really can't see them trying to force contracts on customers. TVision has never done that and I can't see them starting this year when the OTT version launches.

So my guess is that the new TVision will be a lot like AT&T TV except without the 2-yr contract and without any kind of up-front pricing gimmicks, like first-year discounts and Visa gift cards. That's what I had hoped/predicted would be the case with AT&T TV but instead AT&T just took the entire DirecTV marketing model and applied it to AT&T TV.

Assuming the channel packaging remains the same, I could see TVision remaining at $90/mo but offering viewing on three simultaneous screens, either through their dedicated streamer or through an app for other devices. (Right now, TVision can only be viewed via their own TV STBs. The first is included but additional ones cost an extra $10/mo to rent.) For those who also have a T-Mobile post-paid cellular account or a new T-Mobile home internet account, the cost of adding TVision would be cheaper, maybe $70/mo.


----------



## b4pjoe (Nov 20, 2010)

The other difference between TVision and AT&T TV for me is that TVision isn't available in my area.


----------



## NashGuy (Jan 30, 2014)

b4pjoe said:


> The other difference between TVision and AT&T TV for me is that TVision isn't available in my area.


But it probably will be before long. TVision is currently available only in a few select areas where they've struck deals for distribution of their managed IPTV service over certain broadband partner connections. When T-Mobile bought Layer3 TV, they basically just gave it a new name and slapped some magenta on it.

But in the coming weeks/months, TVision will be re-launched as a new service with a totally new distribution system. Basically, it's moving from managed IPTV to OTT, which means it will be accessible over any internet connection. The new TVision will be fundamentally different from the existing service just as AT&T TV is different from Uverse TV. AT&T's Uverse TV and the current iteration of TVision are both accessible only via their own proprietary STBs and delivered over certain compatible broadband connections. AT&T TV and the upcoming version of TVision are app-based, accessible over any broadband or cellular connection, and offer an Android TV streaming device with a UI and remote control that are customized to their cable TV service but also allow easy access to third-party OTT apps.

That said, just because the underlying tech will allow TVision to be accessible anywhere, it remains to be seen whether T-Mobile will actually sell it nationwide. But past remarks indicate that that's the plan: sell it nationwide, to anyone, regardless of whether they take other T-Mobile services. We'll see. Of course, if they do, that means they'll need to get a whole bunch more local stations on board. But maybe they've already done that. The new service is reported to be tech-ready to roll out.


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

The proof of TVision will be in the pudding. Whether the flavor is chocolate or something that comes out in steaming coils remains to be seen.

This late in the game, there will be no excuses for weakness in an aspect of the product.


----------



## b4pjoe (Nov 20, 2010)

NashGuy said:


> *But it probably will be before long.* TVision is currently available only in a few select areas where they've struck deals for distribution of their managed IPTV service over certain broadband partner connections. When T-Mobile bought Layer3 TV, they basically just gave it a new name and slapped some magenta on it.
> 
> But in the coming weeks/months, TVision will be re-launched as a new service with a totally new distribution system. Basically, it's moving from managed IPTV to OTT, which means it will be accessible over any internet connection. The new TVision will be fundamentally different from the existing service just as AT&T TV is different from Uverse TV. AT&T's Uverse TV and the current iteration of TVision are both accessible only via their own proprietary STBs and delivered over certain compatible broadband connections. AT&T TV and the upcoming version of TVision are app-based, accessible over any broadband or cellular connection, and offer an Android TV streaming device with a UI and remote control that are customized to their cable TV service but also allow easy access to third-party OTT apps.
> 
> That said, just because the underlying tech will allow TVision to be accessible anywhere, it remains to be seen whether T-Mobile will actually sell it nationwide. But past remarks indicate that that's the plan: sell it nationwide, to anyone, regardless of whether they take other T-Mobile services. We'll see. Of course, if they do, that means they'll need to get a whole bunch more local stations on board. But maybe they've already done that. The new service is reported to be tech-ready to roll out.


Maybe but I'm not sure I can even get TMobile cell service here. The nearest TMobile store is 70 miles away.


----------



## NashGuy (Jan 30, 2014)

b4pjoe said:


> Maybe but I'm not sure I can even get TMobile cell service here. The nearest TMobile store is 70 miles away.


To clarify: the delivery system that TVision uses will soon change so that it can be accessed over any internet connection, i.e. "over-the-top" (OTT). So if you have home internet that would allow you to get AT&T TV or YouTube TV or Hulu, etc., then you would also be able to get TVision.

What's unknown is whether T-Mobile makes the business decision to sell TVision nationwide, to any address, any customer. But the new technology platform that TVision will ride on will allow that, if they choose to do so. My guess is that T-Mobile will mainly try to sell it to folks who get cellular or home internet service from them (just as AT&T does with AT&T TV) but that they will let anyone sign up for TVision online and ship them their customized streaming dongle to do a simple self-install (also as AT&T TV does).

If my hunch proves true, this forum will have a lot of folks making comparisons between AT&T TV and TVision (and YouTube TV and Hulu with Live TV), trying to figure out which nationwide OTT cable TV service offers the best combination of price, channels, features, etc.


----------



## compnurd (Apr 23, 2007)

Sledgehammer tried TVision a month or so ago and it didn’t last a weekend in his house I don’t think. Picture quality was horrible. It was bad in store and bad at home also


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

compnurd said:


> Sledgehammer tried TVision a month or so ago and it didn't last a weekend in his house I don't think. Picture quality was horrible. It was bad in store and bad at home also


Mobile phone company video products are often been oriented towards use on mobile phones. For example, the Netflix that comes bundled with wireless service is typically the SD product so its no wonder that it looks terrible on a TV. The same would likely be true of Quibi if they could get anyone to bundle it with their wireless service.

Speaking specifically to TVision, they claim that they use state-of-the-art compression to deliver whatever pixel matrix the content comes in (HD or 4K). It is absolutely possible (though not practical) to preserve the pixel matrix size without preserving quality.


----------



## NashGuy (Jan 30, 2014)

compnurd said:


> Sledgehammer tried TVision a month or so ago and it didn't last a weekend in his house I don't think. Picture quality was horrible. It was bad in store and bad at home also





harsh said:


> Speaking specifically to TVision, they claim that they use state-of-the-art compression to deliver whatever pixel matrix the content comes in (HD or 4K). It is absolutely possible (though not practical) to preserve the pixel matrix size without preserving quality.


You're both referencing TVision as it currently exists: a managed IPTV service using Layer 3 TV's technology for back-end servers and set-top boxes.

T-Mobile is scrapping all that. They basically outsourced a redesign of the back-end system to MobiTV, which offers MSOs a turnkey OTT video platform with a suite of customizable apps for retail devices. Additionally, T-Mobile is licensing Google's Android TV Operator Tier OS to put out their own customized set-top box (dongle, actually), similar to what Sling has done with their AirTV device and what AT&T TV has done with their own box.

So whatever bugs, picture quality issues, etc. exist with the current TVision, there's no reason to think that they'll carry over to the forthcoming OTT version of the service. (Although it's certainly possible that the new service could have its own set of shortcomings. We'll have to wait and see.) That would be like evaluating AT&T Uverse TV and thinking it gave you any idea about AT&T TV. It doesn't. They're two different tech platforms.


----------



## compnurd (Apr 23, 2007)

NashGuy said:


> You're both referencing TVision as it currently exists: a managed IPTV service using Layer 3 TV's technology for back-end servers and set-top boxes.
> 
> T-Mobile is scrapping all that. They basically outsourced a redesign of the back-end system to MobiTV, which offers MSOs a turnkey OTT video platform with a suite of customizable apps for retail devices. Additionally, T-Mobile is licensing Google's Android TV Operator Tier OS to put out their own customized set-top box (dongle, actually), similar to what Sling has done with their AirTV device and what AT&T TV has done with their own box.
> 
> So whatever bugs, picture quality issues, etc. exist with the current TVision, there's no reason to think that they'll carry over to the forthcoming OTT version of the service. (Although it's certainly possible that the new service could have its own set of shortcomings. We'll have to wait and see.) That would be like evaluating AT&T Uverse TV and thinking it gave you any idea about AT&T TV. It doesn't. They're two different tech platforms.


When is this launching?


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

NashGuy said:


> You're both referencing TVision as it currently exists: a managed IPTV service using Layer 3 TV's technology for back-end servers and set-top boxes.


People can only review what is currently available. Future promises are not tangible, although it sounds like they are rebranding other company's work so it will be in the realm of no better or no worse than the other companies rebranding the common parts of the platform. The issue will come down to price and packaging. If I recall correctly T Mobile chose the high end with AT&T.


----------



## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

compnurd said:


> When is this launching?


There is no confirmed launch date yet.


----------



## NashGuy (Jan 30, 2014)

compnurd said:


> When is this launching?


It's reported that the new TVision was supposed to have already launched but it's been pushed back because of the pandemic, which forced the closure of some T-Mobile stores, which will play a key role in selling the service. But the tech is ready to go. So it's just a marketing question at this point. Supposedly it will launch "later in 2020". We'll see.

Android TV also playing a part in T-Mobile's new pay-TV play | Light Reading


----------



## NashGuy (Jan 30, 2014)

James Long said:


> People can only review what is currently available.


Obviously. But when comments about the specifics of the existing TVision service are made in response to what I posted above, it seemed unclear to me if the posters understood that the existing service will be technologically unrelated to the future TVision service that I've been talking about.



James Long said:


> The issue will come down to price and packaging. If I recall correctly T Mobile chose the high end with AT&T.


Well, T-Mobile simply acquired Layer3 TV and renamed it to TVision, keeping the original service pretty much unchanged. It's a higher-end service with a full cable channel package with lots of DVR storage. No extra charges for HD, 4K, DVR, locals or RSNs. It's all in there for $90/mo. And no contract. But you have to use their STBs and if you want to watch on additional TVs, extra boxes rent for $10/mo each.

Over two years ago, T-Mo's CEO talked about a different TV service they planned to launch and it was dubbed T-Mobile TV. It was clearly going to be OTT and app-based. They said they weren't going to go the skinny bundle route but vaguely talked about how it would be different from other options on the market, destroy the hated cablecos, blah, blah, blah. They released a teaser video with some mock-up screens for the service. But then the whole thing just quietly withered away, never getting mentioned any more. Instead, they just decided to turn TVision into an OTT service with the help of MobiTV to handle the underlying tech platform.

But, yeah, it remains to be seen if it'll keep the same fat channel bundle and same $90/mo price. I could see them maybe pricing it at just above break-even level (as Google does with YouTube TV) if TVision is bundled with their cellular or home internet service, in order to make those products stickier. We'll see...


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

NashGuy said:


> You're both referencing TVision as it currently exists: a managed IPTV service using Layer 3 TV's technology for back-end servers and set-top boxes.


While incorporating anecdotal information from real-world testing, my comments were more pointed at what wireless companies have typically espoused. The fact that they've contracted with a mobile video platform company doesn't add confidence to the idea that the service will be equally at home on a big screen TV.

The reality will be somewhere in between but to take their superiority assurances at face value just isn't reasonable.


----------



## NashGuy (Jan 30, 2014)

harsh said:


> While incorporating anecdotal information from real-world testing, my comments were more pointed at what wireless companies have typically espoused. The fact that they've contracted with a mobile video platform company doesn't add confidence to the idea that the service will be equally at home on a big screen TV.


What are you talking about? The company TVision will be working with, MobiTV, isn't a "mobile video platform company". They have an OTT IP video platform that serves a range of devices, not just mobile, but also all four major TV-connected platforms: Roku, Fire TV, Apple TV and Android TV. MSOs that use the MobiTV platform, such as Chattanooga's Electric Power Board or C Spire, use it to deliver service to their customers' TVs. It's not something tacked on, on the side, just for mobile devices.



harsh said:


> The reality will be somewhere in between but to take their superiority assurances at face value just isn't reasonable.


Not sure who's "superiority assurances" you're referring to. TVision's? They've made no public comments about the future OTT version of the service. Are you talking about MobiTV's claims about their platform? In that case, one can look at how it works on systems where it's actually been deployed over the past few years.

If you're interested in learning something about MobiTV and their clients, here's their website: MOBITV


----------

