# Enable Off-air locals view preference



## cleblanc (Dec 18, 2003)

On the second screen of the Preferences menu, their is a box that says 'Enable Off-Air Locals' and the default is that it is checked. There is no help behind this box the way there is on all the other view preferences. I got into a debate last night on whether or not this box should be checked.
I tried to tell him that it really has no effect on the OTA locals but does affect the satellite locals. In my experience, if this box is unchecked, then the Dish locals will be remapped to the correct local station (such as 003-01). But that if you check it, the remapping does not happen and the Dish locals will come out in the 7800 range.
Right now I explained that it is necessary to uncheck the box so that I can see the guide info from the Dish locals since I am not getting it on the OTA locals. Of course we ran tests both ways and it had no effect on the OTA channels or whether or not you get guide data.
Does anybody know the correct interpretation of this switch and what it's supposed to do? I think a better name for it would be to 'Remap Satellite locals'. The current name is very misleading, I believe.


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## lapplegate (Jan 17, 2003)

cleblanc said:


> On the second screen of the Preferences menu, their is a box that says 'Enable Off-Air Locals' and the default is that it is checked. There is no help behind this box the way there is on all the other view preferences. I got into a debate last night on whether or not this box should be checked.
> I tried to tell him that it really has no effect on the OTA locals but does affect the satellite locals. In my experience, if this box is unchecked, then the Dish locals will be remapped to the correct local station (such as 003-01). But that if you check it, the remapping does not happen and the Dish locals will come out in the 7800 range.
> Right now I explained that it is necessary to uncheck the box so that I can see the guide info from the Dish locals since I am not getting it on the OTA locals. Of course we ran tests both ways and it had no effect on the OTA channels or whether or not you get guide data.
> Does anybody know the correct interpretation of this switch and what it's supposed to do? I think a better name for it would be to 'Remap Satellite locals'. The current name is very misleading, I believe.


I believe that the option allows you to scan in the OTA analog local channels, in which case it puts them in the guide under their correct number and the Dish locals will be in the higher range (7800). If unchecked it will remap the Dish locals to that channel number.

So if you are using the Dish locals as opposed to the analog OTA, you have a choice of having them in another area of the guide or next to the digital channels.

If the analog channels are used, they will show up as a different "color" in the guide as do the digital channels (blue).


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## cleblanc (Dec 18, 2003)

That makes sense. Thanks! I never scan in the analog locals, only the digital. So for me, unchecking the box is the better way.


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

My WB is currently still analog only, so in order for that station to show up in my guide, I have to check the box. 

My 921 is currently packed up in it's box, I have just moved (doing my own "Dishmover" rather than having to make a comittment, besides I installed my own Dish back in '97-it's fun  ). Just my luck 215 spooled while my unit was offline. I hope 215 spools as soon as I plug it in. I'm also happy that they made the OTA guide data available to those of us who do not subscribe to the Dish LIL's.

One other note: I bought a DishPro Plus Twin LNB and a Dish Pro LNB for 61.5 and a seperator. Does 215 have the software for the seperator or will I have to download it seperately as was the case prior to 215 (I had legacy LNB's and switch at the old house)?


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## dishbacker (Jun 15, 2004)

L213 supports the seperator just fine... been using one since January with a DPP Twin LNB and a Dish Pro single on the 'Sat In' connection of the LNB pointing at 148.

*Do Not* run 2 seperate lines from the LNB to the 921... I know it doesn't work with the DPP 44 switch and assume the same to be true with the DPP Twin. Besides, its a waste of a line since the seperator works like a champ.


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

_"I'm also happy that they made the OTA guide data available to those of us who do not subscribe to the Dish LIL's."_

Well, I'll say this now openly but I had serious plans to file a formal complaint with the FCC on Dish's plan to sell the OTA guide data to 921 owners. IMO, this actually is a violation of the recent PSIP regulation that requires PSIP data to be present after 2/1/05 on any OTA ATSC signal. I won't go into details here but my position was that E* has a valid OTA ATSC receiver that is designed to intercept the PSIP required data, and filter it through a process that sells the information to it's 921 OTA users. In January, I announced my plans to E* in person and suggested they rethink their position on it. Some of you may recall I alluded to the concept that they program the 921 to receive PSIP from the stations with the option to purchase OTA guide data that came from DISH service. But without purchase, they should design the software to at minimum receive what the stations are sending in their PSIP, a regulated minimum would be far better than nothing. At any rate, it's all water under the bridge now if, indeed, this "feature" was intended to be so and we're just experiencing a few bugs with some. Looking forward to hearing from Mark, officially on this. Mark?


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## cleblanc (Dec 18, 2003)

The only problem is that now there are a lot of people who are paying for the local EPG guide and not receiving it. I think that's even worse.
If my guide data is not restored in the next couple days, I'm going to insist on some compensation.
I feel like I pay a DVR fee but don't get DVR functions and now I'm paying a local guide fee and not getting one.


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## mfrodsha (Sep 15, 2004)

DonLandis said:


> _"I'm also happy that they made the OTA guide data available to those of us who do not subscribe to the Dish LIL's."_
> 
> Well, I'll say this now openly but I had serious plans to file a formal complaint with the FCC on Dish's plan to sell the OTA guide data to 921 owners. IMO, this actually is a violation of the recent PSIP regulation that requires PSIP data to be present after 2/1/05 on any OTA ATSC signal. I won't go into details here but my position was that E* has a valid OTA ATSC receiver that is designed to intercept the PSIP required data, and filter it through a process that sells the information to it's 921 OTA users. In January, I announced my plans to E* in person and suggested they rethink their position on it. Some of you may recall I alluded to the concept that they program the 921 to receive PSIP from the stations with the option to purchase OTA guide data that came from DISH service. But without purchase, they should design the software to at minimum receive what the stations are sending in their PSIP, a regulated minimum would be far better than nothing. At any rate, it's all water under the bridge now if, indeed, this "feature" was intended to be so and we're just experiencing a few bugs with some. Looking forward to hearing from Mark, officially on this. Mark?


Well, that's pretty darn interesting - L215 changed nothing in my guide data. I've been saying all along that Dish was full of it by saying it was the broadcaster's fault on the PSIP data (at least some tech told me that once). I had the samsung receiver, and it read the digital PSIP data just fine, and, for some reason, had no problem pulling down all the digital OTA stations.

Why is it that some on this board now seem to have all of their OTA guide data, while the rest of us have only partial or no guide data, even if we know for a FACT that the local broadcasters are broadcasting PSIP accurately? I mean, is Samsung really so much smarter, or is PSIP so incredibly complicated that it takes months of programming to accurately replicate into guide data? I have a very hard time believing either of these.


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## JM Anthony (Nov 16, 2003)

_"I'm also happy that they made the OTA guide data available to those of us who do not subscribe to the Dish LIL's."_

. . . In January, I announced my plans to E* in person and suggested they rethink their position on it.

Don,

My hats off to you!! I really respect it when someone does their homework and takes their advocacy seriously enough to pursue it mano a mano. I really get tired of whiny wimps who always want others to do their bidding.

Carpe diem and all that stuff.


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## madbrain (Dec 10, 2004)

Don,



DonLandis said:


> _"I'm also happy that they made the OTA guide data available to those of us who do not subscribe to the Dish LIL's."_
> 
> Well, I'll say this now openly but I had serious plans to file a formal complaint with the FCC on Dish's plan to sell the OTA guide data to 921 owners. IMO, this actually is a violation of the recent PSIP regulation that requires PSIP data to be present after 2/1/05 on any OTA ATSC signal. I won't go into details here but my position was that E* has a valid OTA ATSC receiver that is designed to intercept the PSIP required data, and filter it through a process that sells the information to it's 921 OTA users. In January, I announced my plans to E* in person and suggested they rethink their position on it. Some of you may recall I alluded to the concept that they program the 921 to receive PSIP from the stations with the option to purchase OTA guide data that came from DISH service. But without purchase, they should design the software to at minimum receive what the stations are sending in their PSIP, a regulated minimum would be far better than nothing. At any rate, it's all water under the bridge now if, indeed, this "feature" was intended to be so and we're just experiencing a few bugs with some. Looking forward to hearing from Mark, officially on this. Mark?


Apparently, what they have done is give us free guide data - but it's not coming from PSIP. When I get home, I'll check and compare side by side with the Samsung OTA-only SIR-T165 receiver. But I'm pretty sure the Samsung only gets 1 or 2 days of program, and only the title - no detailed information and ratings like the 921 shows. Not that I'm complaining or anything, since most of my SF bay area channels now have free guide data from DIsh, finally (I never paid for the locals) ...


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## TonyB (Jul 5, 2004)

Thats very interesting - I wonder what the release notes will say, if anything. Perhaps they are being written based on what we see, that way they can claim that its working just as planned in the release notes.

I have an terrestrial antenna on my roof for getting the local Boston MA stations, both analog and digital. After downloading L215 I called and cancelled the dish locals package. What I now get is:
1. No Dish locals - they show up in the EPG around 8772 etc but are red (ie not subscribed) and have EPG data showing the program details
2. Digital EPG for the OTA digital sub channels. The program data appears to be identical to the 8772 etc data. Only the primary digital sub channel has data (eg 005-01) but not the other -02 etc sub channels.
3. The Analog OTA (which should be IDENTICAL to the dish locals 8772 etc) shows as no information available!

Conclusions:
1. EPG guide data is remapped from the dish locals at 8772 etc to the local primary (-01) sub channels.
2. PSIP data is NOT obtained from the digital channels, otherwise guide data for ALL digital channels would be there. 005-01 is there but not 05-02. I doubt that a station would transmit for one sub channel but not all.
3. Since Dish remapped for the digital sub channel which is usually the same as the dish locals but not always, they could also have remapped for the analog locals which is ALWAYS the same as the dish locals - sinc its the source of the program to Dih in the first place.

Final Conclusion: Unless Mark and other beta testers see exactly the same then clearly L215 is screwed up again!
Mark - Can I assume that the beta testing included testing what happens WITH and WITHOUT subscribing to the locals package? Surely it would have verified the operation for both circumstances? What is supposed to be provided for OTA analog programs when a customer does not subscribe to the locals package?


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## Bogney (Jul 11, 2003)

TonyB said:


> After downloading L215 I called and cancelled the dish locals package.


Did you have to pay the $5 programming downgrade fee?


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## TonyB (Jul 5, 2004)

Bogney said:


> Did you have to pay the $5 programming downgrade fee?


yes


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

I'm wondering if they are doing things differently by DMA.

That is, testing some new type of feed in certain markets.

Or maybe they just don't have all the "new" guide data online yet.

Just speculating - I don't have any OTA, so I'm just talking from right field.


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

dishbacker said:


> L213 supports the seperator just fine... been using one since January with a DPP Twin LNB and a Dish Pro single on the 'Sat In' connection of the LNB pointing at 148.
> 
> *Do Not* run 2 seperate lines from the LNB to the 921... I know it doesn't work with the DPP 44 switch and assume the same to be true with the DPP Twin. Besides, its a waste of a line since the seperator works like a champ.


For the record, the 921 works with a DPP-Twin and no Separators (dual feed), OR with a Separator.


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## jergenf (Mar 31, 2005)

SimpleSimon said:


> For the record, the 921 works with a DPP-Twin and no Separators (dual feed), OR with a Separator.


Actually the 921 worked ok with dual feed when I had the DP34 switch but after getting the DP+44 switch (61.5 added to superdish) a separator was required in order to pass the switch test. I know this was the case with 213 but not sure if it still is the case with 215.


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

SimpleSimon said:


> I'm wondering if they are doing things differently by DMA.
> 
> That is, testing some new type of feed in certain markets.
> 
> ...


I think you are on to something here. I wonder if a person who doesn't subscribe for DMA, doesn't have the right satellite dish for that DMA, and doesn't receive the EGP data, would receive the EPG data information if they had a satellite dish aimed at the satellite with their DMA?


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

jergenf said:


> Actually the 921 worked ok with dual feed when I had the DP34 switch but after getting the DP+44 switch (61.5 added to superdish) a separator was required in order to pass the switch test. I know this was the case with 213 but not sure if it still is the case with 215.


 IIRC, that's correct - DPP44 dual-feed was (and may still be) a problem.


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## jergenf (Mar 31, 2005)

Does setting 'Enable Off-Air Locals' to "No" or "Disable" allow for local channel EPG data to be remapped to the OTA section (either digital or analog channel slots?

I know it omits analog locals from apprearing in the EPG even though it still exist in the channel list in menu 6 - 8.

Since L215 I get EPG data only in the 76XX range of the guide as red because I don't subscribe. It would be nice to have that data remapped to the OTA range so that the guide could be used to schedule events.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

jergenf - you've run into the OTA guide data bug.


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## jergenf (Mar 31, 2005)

Mark Lamutt said:


> jergenf - you've run into the OTA guide data bug.


I've tried setting it to disable but all it does is the remove the all the analog channels from the guide. Guess I'll have to wait until the next release to find out the local guide features I'll get or loose.


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