# Sony picture quality



## tacua (Apr 22, 2008)

Can any Sony fan tell me if there is a considerable difference in picture quality HD between the models Z ,XBR and the S ? And if there is, what exactly is it? Thanks in advance for any reply. Can't make up my mind before purchasing one.


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

You need to go look at them, preferably with a Blu-Ray player hooked up and a couple of discs.

Everyone has their own perceptions. Yes, there are definitely technical differences between those sets, but how important they are to YOU is something that only YOU can answer.

Very quickly:

S = Basic panel, fixed 60 Hz refresh.
W = 120 Hz refresh, can do 24 fps properly (5:5 frame repeat)
Z = like W, but has a 10-bit panel and can handle deep color (which doesn't exist yet at the consumer level)
XBR = Improved motion-flow, even higher-end panel.

IMO, the W line is the best balance of features-to-value, but given my use (computer as well as TV), I wanted the 10-bit panel, the narrow frame, and the all-black color, so I went with the Z series.


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## Hutchinshouse (Sep 28, 2006)

I love my XBR. Go for it..!


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## richiephx (Jan 19, 2006)

I have the W model. Blue-ray is excellent. D* HD is so so. A movie like Speed Racer with it's bright color and fast action movement makes it almost hard to watch with all the pixelation and and motion blurriness. Is this a problem with D*'s mpeg4 compression or is this caused by a setting on the tv that I am unaware of? I have tried many different changes and I still have an issue.


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

Movies like Speed Racer, which has lots of scenes where every pixel (over 2 million of them) is changing every frame for several seconds at a time, simply can't be compressed small enough to fit into DirecTV's available bandwidth without having compression artifacts. It isn't just DirecTV, though; all TV delivery services suffer this problem, some more than others. DirecTV is actually near the top, with FiOS having a little more bandwidth available.

Even a Blu-Ray disc, with its incredible throughput of up to 50 Mb/s (for short peaks; about 40 Mb/s continuous) can have compression artifacts, but when you squeeze it down to about 8 Mb/s (DirecTV), it can be pretty bad during some high-motion scenes. Obviously on systems with even less bandwidth, it will be even worse. MPEG2 systems are worse still, needing even more bandwidth due to the lower efficiency of the compression codec.

The bulk of most movies has hundreds of frames with relatively little movement of the background until the next scene change, and these scenes compress very well and need relatively little bandwidth. Scenes where every pixel on the screen is changing every frame just can't be compressed very much. Good examples are: panning across the audience at a football game or car race, or scenes where most of the screen is filled with flame, smoke, fog, or moving "disco lights". These scenes simply can't be compressed very much without causing artifacts.


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## tacua (Apr 22, 2008)

Many thanks to all, I'll give it a try with the blue ray and then decide!


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## acman (May 8, 2005)

Not sure if you deceided yet but do yourself a favor........
Go for an XBR8! I promise you will be very glad you did. In my opinion it is worth every cent! I have not found a better picture and overall beautiful television.
Good luck.


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## Steve H (May 15, 2006)

For what its worth I have two XBR's right now. Both have great pictures BUT my 3 1/2 year old rear projection XBR is going back on to the store under their no lemon policy. WHEN it worked it had a great picture but after 4 major repairs Best Buy gave me a full refund!!!!!!!


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## Nina (Jan 15, 2008)

Hutchinshouse said:


> I love my XBR. Go for it..!


I need some suggestions regarding XBR8. I purchased the 46" XBR8. I think I made a wrong decision. I watch a lot of south asian international channels from dish which are not HD. I have a 510 dvr. The international channels have a lot of distortion and that throws me off. I have a week in which I can take it back. Any suggestions in upconverting these channels to a good picture??? Please help..


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

Bottom line: you are taking a low-resolution image designed in the 1930s for screens up to 20" and stretching it out on a huge 46" screen. HD looks good because it has 6 times (or more) the information, which is what is needed to fill that much screen area with information. SD is always going to look lousy on a big HDTV.

Having said that, plasmas tend to be a bit better at producing a decent SD picture than LCDs. The difference isn't huge, but it is noticable. But IMO, you're better off learning to live with it for now, because over time, all channels will convert to HD, and even SD content will be upscaled at the source with a high-quality scaler and will look better.


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## Hutchinshouse (Sep 28, 2006)

BattleZone said:


> Bottom line: you are taking a low-resolution image designed in the 1930s for screens up to 20" and stretching it out on a huge 46" screen. HD looks good because it has 6 times (or more) the information, which is what is needed to fill that much screen area with information. SD is always going to look lousy on a big HDTV.
> 
> Having said that, plasmas tend to be a bit better at producing a decent SD picture than LCDs. The difference isn't huge, but it is noticable. But IMO, you're better off learning to live with it for now, because over time, all channels will convert to HD, and even SD content will be upscaled at the source with a high-quality scaler and will look better.


A little more to it than that. When I watch a SD DVD on my Sony XBR it looks great. DIRECTV SD, not even close to DVD SD quality. The source plays a huge part too.


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## mutelight (Oct 6, 2008)

BattleZone said:


> Even a Blu-Ray disc, with its incredible throughput of up to 50 Mb/s (for short peaks; about 40 Mb/s continuous) can have compression artifacts, but when you squeeze it down to about 8 Mb/s (DirecTV), it can be pretty bad during some high-motion scenes. Obviously on systems with even less bandwidth, it will be even worse. MPEG2 systems are worse still, needing even more bandwidth due to the lower efficiency of the compression codec.


I agree with everything you have said but I have only seen compression artifacts on very old MPEG2 BD encodes. I own over 150 BD movies and even under the most high motion scenes, I have yet to see any form of macroblocking, even in dark scenes.


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## Nina (Jan 15, 2008)

mutelight said:


> I agree with everything you have said but I have only seen compression artifacts on very old MPEG2 BD encodes. I own over 150 BD movies and even under the most high motion scenes, I have yet to see any form of macroblocking, even in dark scenes.


Will I see any differance if I change my DVR510 to Vip612. For the quality of standard channels???? I am sorry if I sound silly!!!


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## mutelight (Oct 6, 2008)

Nina said:


> Will I see any differance if I change my DVR510 to Vip612. For the quality of standard channels???? I am sorry if I sound silly!!!


I am not familiar with Dish Network hardware but as far as making broadcast HD look its best, proper calibration will help out a large amount. When I first purchased my V10, I could see every bit of macroblocking in the broadcast which was worrisome but after some calibration and tweaking the image quality has vastly improved. Two things right of the bat that will make broadcast HD quality suffer, is having default "torch mode" enabled and having the sharpness artificially high.


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## JM Anthony (Nov 16, 2003)

Our sister site, AVSForum, has some killer threads comparing various display options. We recently pulled the trigger on a new plasma after spending a few days researching options over there. Very savvy membership.

John


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

Nina said:


> Will I see any differance if I change my DVR510 to Vip612. For the quality of standard channels???? I am sorry if I sound silly!!!


No, that won't help the SD channels. It will, of course, give you HD programming that will look fantastic, but obviously the channels in question are only available in SD, and likely at a reduced resolution anyway, so they are never going to look good on a big TV, especially not to anyone who watches HD content on a regular basis.


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## Juanus (Jun 5, 2007)

To stay on the Sony topic, Circut City online is having a great deal on the KDL-52XBR9. Any ideas on this model? I am new to the sony model nomenclature.


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## StevenJB (Jul 23, 2007)

Juanus said:


> To stay on the Sony topic, Circut City online is having a great deal on the KDL-52XBR9. Any ideas on this model? I am new to the sony model nomenclature.


I own this model. It has a 240 Hz refresh rate, four HDMI inputs, and an ethernet/LAN input so you don't need Wi-Fi capability. It has older generation connections for white/red/yellow audio/video and s video. These are a but a few features on this LCD backlit gem. It's HD picture is so drop dead sharp and realistic that it appears to be almost 3D. Colors are excellent. Brightness and contrast are stunning. It has programming for just about every online service out there including Netflix and YouTube available through its ethernet input jack. I have it directly hard-wired to my Verizon FiOS modem which has a 25 Mb download speed. You can update all of the software directly online. It has super-sensitive NTSC analog and ATSC digital tuners for OTA. It's full 1080p and is compatible with 1080p24 and 1080p30/60 Blu-Ray formats. It accepts upconverted 480i SD DVD and displays it as 1080p. I team up an Oppo BD-83SE Blu-Ray player with my XBR9. The picture is stunning in a word. I have always owned Sony television. I consider it the best. You will love the XBR9. Check it out.


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## Juanus (Jun 5, 2007)

wow... what a review.
That makes this deal seem that much better.
http://www.circuitcity.com/email/ci...88TT&cm_mmc=EML-_-Main-_-CCEM188-_-circuit188


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## Juanus (Jun 5, 2007)

Also, I hate to hijack this as a pure sony thread, but has anyone seen, played with the XBR10 models. They are edge lit LCD but they have wireless media boxes. Cool Idea for clean lines, but I am not sure how well that works in the field.


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## mutelight (Oct 6, 2008)

The Sonys are undoubtedly great displays and I was close to pulling the trigger on an XBR9 but the backlight uniformity, black level performance and input lag is what turned me off to them as I game a fair amount. The input lag isn't bad but it was rated the same as the previous Sony Bravia I owned, so it wasn't as bad as other displays but I could still feel it.

The Sonys definitely have a pop to them and they are great displays but over time those three issues began to bother me and really stood out when watching darker Blu-rays. That is what drove me to look at other tech and ultimately decide on the Panasonic V10. Perfect uniformity, great black levels, full 1080p motion resolution without the need for MCFI (MotionFlow) which drives me nuts, as well as lower input lag.


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## Juanus (Jun 5, 2007)

You game on a plasma? How is that working for you. I am very hesitant with Image Rentention. I would love to go with a plasma in my basement, but it will be the movie room and game room for the kids with the PS3 and such. I can see burn in coming.


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## mutelight (Oct 6, 2008)

I have put many long sessions of gaming on my plasma. (4+ hours of constant play) After numerous hours and I power down the system, there will be very subtle image retention which rapidly disappears after the screen is refreshed. NeoPDP panels are extremely resistant to image retention and burn in is a non-issue.


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## Juanus (Jun 5, 2007)

Yeah, I am not sure I could take that chance. I have kids who think that the pause button on DirecTV is the same as turning it off when we say its time to go. I mean they cant miss that rerun episode of iCarly. Luckily DirecTV has a screensaver. So who knows what they would do if they are right in the middle of a game and we say its dinnertime.

I have to go with LCD just for piece of mind. I know Plasmas are better and have better color and all that, but I can't spend that much money and take a chance. If I were able to have an "adult" room, that would be one thing. But everyone has to share and share alike.


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