# New Cust. Wanted HR24, Got HR23, Told can't get HR24



## bshockley (Apr 21, 2006)

I guess I should have done my research a little better. I am a brand new customer. Had everything installed yesterday. When the tech brought out the HD DVR I noticed it was the HR23 model. I told him I noticed it wasn't the latest model and he said he didn't have any HR24s, but if I call DirecTV after everything was setup, they could send me out an HR24. I took his word for it and let him proceed. I called this morning and was told numerous times that they had no way of sending out an HR24. They could try sending a new HD DVR and we could hope and see what I get, but that's it. I explained I was expecting the latest equipment since I'm brand new on a two year agreement. I then asked if I could cancel. I was told I could before midnight tonight, however, the $215 I paid up front for the equipment would not be refunded because it was already activated. I was on the phone for 54 minutes and 53 seconds trying to get this resolved.

I have been told I have tow options. 1) live with what I got or 2) cancel before midnight and lose the $215 I spent on equipment fees.

I realize the difference between the HR23 and HR24 is minor (I've seen the YouTube video showing the speed). At this point, I feel as if the installer lied to me so he could complete the job and move on. I know, they are just installers, but I feel they represent DirecTV and hence, DirecTV should be responsible for their actions/words.

Does anyone know of another option I might have? I like the fact I can have a single DVR in the house and two TVs can access the one list (I have an H24 upstairs). That's the main reason I went with DirecTV over Dish Network...but now I'm feeling like I should cancel while I can and try something else. (shoot we don't even watch that much TV...for the $200 I am going to lose I should have just gotten a Tivo).


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## matt (Jan 12, 2010)

Is it really worth $215 to you? My advice is to stick with what you got. The installer didn't have them on the truck and he may have honestly not known they can't specify receivers to be sent out. It's not _that_ big of a deal IMHO. Yes, they are great, but they aren't worth getting so upset over.

In a few years HR24s will be stuffed away in our closets as spares since something better will inevitably come along...


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## Sim-X (Sep 24, 2009)

bshockley said:


> I guess I should have done my research a little better. I am a brand new customer. Had everything installed yesterday. When the tech brought out the HD DVR I noticed it was the HR23 model. I told him I noticed it wasn't the latest model and he said he didn't have any HR24s, but if I call DirecTV after everything was setup, they could send me out an HR24. I took his word for it and let him proceed. I called this morning and was told numerous times that they had no way of sending out an HR24. They could try sending a new HD DVR and we could hope and see what I get, but that's it. I explained I was expecting the latest equipment since I'm brand new on a two year agreement. I then asked if I could cancel. I was told I could before midnight tonight, however, the $215 I paid up front for the equipment would not be refunded because it was already activated. I was on the phone for 54 minutes and 53 seconds trying to get this resolved.
> 
> I have been told I have tow options. 1) live with what I got or 2) cancel before midnight and lose the $215 I spent on equipment fees.
> 
> ...


Yea that sucks. When I got DTV last fall I wanted HR23's and he brought all HR22's. I didn't throw 2 big a fit since there wasn't much difference anyway.

The 24's however are another story. Your best play would have been when he got there before he even started ask what he has and just refuse the install. Now that you have everything up and running I think your kinda SOL.

You could keep calling in and try to figure something out but I think your drawing very slim getting anywhere. If it really bugs you that much you prob have to cancel and I don't even know if you could start over.

There is a reason DirecTV has an "F" rating with the BBB and it's because of crap like this. As a customer PAYING lease fee's for equipment you should have the right to pick out the model you want. The idiot balloon heads that came up with this policy needs to be axed.

The worst part is DTV comes out with this nice new box, you can't even call DTV to order that model, you just have to get lucky. What kind of crack are they smoking.

Well like I said your best play would have been to just refuse the install but now you either gotta suck it up and keep it, cancel or just order your boxes online and replace them which is total bs.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Are you happy with the HR23? You have no other HR2x to compare it to.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

The other side of this, that people tend to forget, is that all the DVRs are the same price. I personally think it would be great if you could order just the one you wanted but the other side of that would be that there would probably be a different charge for one with OTA vs. one without, for a faster one vs. a slower one, for more capacity vs. less. 

If you argue that the HR21-100 is the slowest, least capable, smallest capacity DVR in the line and the HR24-500 is the fastest, most capable, highest capacity DVR, you have to realize they're both $199 or less. 

Would people pay $299 for an HR24? I don't know. Or would DIRECTV have to discount the HR22 to $99?


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## gfrang (Aug 30, 2007)

Hr-23 is a fine box i know because i have one.

From the review i watched comparing the two the only speed difference is in accessing the to do list no big deal for me.


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## mcbeevee (Sep 18, 2006)

bshockley said:


> I have been told I have two options. 1) live with what I got or 2) cancel before midnight and lose the $215 I spent on equipment fees.


There is a 3rd option, order an HR24 from an online retailer (like solid signal) for around $199, then send the HR23 back to Directv once you have activated the HR24. If you call Directv before the midnight deadline, there is a (small) chance you could negotiate a $199 credit for the HR24.


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## mcbeevee (Sep 18, 2006)

gfrang said:


> From the review i watched comparing the two the only speed difference is in accessing the to do list no big deal for me.


The following was copied from the HR24-500 First Look document:

Now the major difference: speed! Raw, unmitigated quickness is evident through every single moment using these boxes. The UI responds instantly to nearly any possible command - menus pop up, pages scroll as fast as you can press the button, even a unified Playlist of several terabytes' worth of programming scrolls through like lightning. Direct channel changes with the remote are quick and accurate, and channels change as fast as the HDMI handshake with the attached set will allow.


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## Matt_Stevens (Jun 21, 2010)

I'm scheduled for a new install this coming Saturday. I made it clear to DTV that I would only accept the HR24 DVR and no other. I made it clear I would send them away if they showed up with a different box. They said they can put it in the notes.

I confirmed with the local installer (just this morning) that they have HR24's and my notes say to bring one, so we shall see.

If they show up without one, I will not allow them to install. Having tested the HR24, I want nothing else. Now I would kill to have FiOS, but it is not an option where I live and Comcast is crap, so DTV will work for me if I have a real nice piece of equipment. 

Otherwise, I'll suck it up and go Comcrap.


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## gfrang (Aug 30, 2007)

Matt_Stevens said:


> I'm scheduled for a new install this coming Saturday. I made it clear to DTV that I would only accept the HR24 DVR and no other. I made it clear I would send them away if they showed up with a different box. They said they can put it in the notes.
> 
> I confirmed with the local installer (just this morning) that they have HR24's and my notes say to bring one, so we shall see.
> 
> ...


Even the first HDdvr HR20 is light years ahead of Comcrap's dvr,i myself would not do that:nono:


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## MatthewTheRaven (Feb 21, 2008)

To the OP, I would write to the Customer Advocacy Team via [email protected]. You normally don't get the chance to pick the receiver you get, but as you said, either the installer was just wrong or he lied to finish the job and move on. Either way, it puts you in a position where you now have activated receivers and fewer options, whereas if you the installer had either been honest or better informed, you would have been able to tell him that you didn't want to continue the install.

I would write to that address and see if they are able to help you.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Not that this is actually a happy solution, but if you are considering canceling and paying $215 as part of the cancellation, then you could always buy a 24 online for roughly the same price, activate it and then deactivate the 23 (having to return it of course).

Still not good, but for the same price as dropping the service you'd be able to keep it and have what you want. Still, as others have said, sticking with the HR23 will work well for many people. I used one myself for nearly 2 years and was happy with it.


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## George M (Dec 27, 2007)

Is [email protected] still in her postion? I sent her an email this morning about another item and waiting to hear back? How long does it usually take for her to respond?


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

George M said:


> Is [email protected] still in her postion? I sent her an email this morning about another item and waiting to hear back? How long does it usually take for her to respond?


Ellen has a team to help her out. I don't think she ever actually responds directly herself, but she might from time to time. Typically they will get back to you within the day. Did you provide a phone number?

The best way is to use this link:
http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/global/contentPageIFnorail.jsp?assetId=P4960016#h:596.379

This way all of the pertinent information is available for them.


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## mobandit (Sep 4, 2007)

George M said:


> Is [email protected] still in her postion? I sent her an email this morning about another item and waiting to hear back? How long does it usually take for her to respond?


Usually within 24 hours...


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## matt (Jan 12, 2010)

George M said:


> Is [email protected] still in her postion? I sent her an email this morning about another item and waiting to hear back? How long does it usually take for her to respond?


They usually call me the next day when I have emailed.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Matt_Stevens said:


> I'm scheduled for a new install this coming Saturday. I made it clear to DTV that I would only accept the HR24 DVR and no other. I made it clear I would send them away if they showed up with a different box. They said they can put it in the notes.
> 
> I confirmed with the local installer (just this morning) that they have HR24's and my notes say to bring one, so we shall see.
> 
> ...


:lol:


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## judson_west (Jun 15, 2006)

After a few months with my HR24 I have to say that while it is technically faster than my HR20's, in reality it is not that noticeable. If you asked anyone in the house, other than me, they would not say there's a difference. With Whole Home DVR service, it is not worth any more, except for the absence of some wires off the back of the HR24 vs. the HR20.


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## winstoda (Jul 25, 2010)

I just had my install on Saturday. I did the same as you - I put comments in my order stating I wanted 24s and would accept nothing else. I was a bit stressed over it as I didn't want to lay out all this cash ($300) for old equipment. I decided if the installer didn't have 24's I would cancel the install.

Lucky for me when the installer called a few hours ahead of the appointment I was able to mention that I wanted the HR24s and H24s. He said he'd do his best. The first question I asked when he arrived is whether he had them. He later mentioned that when I asked him on the phone he knew I was more informed than the average customer and as a result he made sure to bring them.

I think if they had given me a hard time and given me older/used equipment I probably would have opted to stay with Fios. I held off cancelling that service until this morning just in case. It's only been a day or so but so far these DVRs and the whole house viewing rock!


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## sdirv (Dec 14, 2008)

spartanstew said:


> :lol:


I hear ya.......


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## gilg1 (May 13, 2008)

When I had my MRV installed a couple months ago, I was speaking to the DirecTV installer and his supervisor, both from DTV and not a sub-contractor, about the HR24 and H24 receivers. The supervisor told me that ALL new customers are supposed to receive the HR24 and H24 receivers upon installation. Like Sim-X stated earlier, you should have just refused the installation.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

I think that's "All new customer who also order whole-home" are supposed to get 24s. I'm not sure that's the case when whole home isn't ordered.


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## matt (Jan 12, 2010)

Doug Brott said:


> I think that's "All new customer who also order whole-home" are supposed to get 24s. I'm not sure that's the case when whole home isn't ordered.


That would be my parent's, who are scheduled for Saturday. Looks like I might have to raise a fuss if they bring something else, even though I don't like the idea of the tech not getting paid properly. If they are _supposed_ to get them, then I want to make sure they get them.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

"supposed to" means 24s are the priority. It's not the same thing as "has to" .. although I suppose you could force the latter if you're so inclined.


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## matt (Jan 12, 2010)

Eh, it's a PITA to schedule stuff like this since they live an hour and a half away. I just won't take an HR21-100s!

Mom has my old Series 2 Tivo and dad has a VCR so I doubt they will care about it as much as I do, but I will ask for the Hx24 and see what happens. We are doing basically a custom install so I don't think it would be nice to send the tech away too many times


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## poppin_fresh (Oct 14, 2006)

I just turned my installer away a couple minutes ago. I specified hr24, he knew I wanted it, but the warehouse was out and gave him hr21 refurbs to give me. I told him i didn't want three year old equipment and he understood. They can't tell me when they will have them back in stock. 

So much for all whole house installs getting the 24s only. Guess I have some phone calls to make.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

poppin_fresh said:


> I just turned my installer away a couple minutes ago. I specified hr24, he knew I wanted it, but the warehouse was out and gave him hr21 refurbs to give me. I told him i didn't want three year old equipment and he understood. They can't tell me when they will have them back in stock.
> 
> So much for all whole house installs getting the 24s only. Guess I have some phone calls to make.


If you want to make demands for specific equipment, acquire it yourself.


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## poppin_fresh (Oct 14, 2006)

I don't think it's unreasonable for a new customer to ask for NEW equipment when signing up for new service. I asked for it when I ordered the service and was told by customer service i was getting newest equipment when they confirmed the install. Even the installer said he wouldn't take old equipment either.


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## matt (Jan 12, 2010)

poppin_fresh said:


> I don't think it's unreasonable for a new customer to ask for NEW equipment when signing up for new service. I asked for it when I ordered the service and was told by customer service i was getting newest equipment when they confirmed the install. Even the installer said he wouldn't take old equipment either.


A lot of people seem to think leasing a receiver is like leasing a car. So following that, if I go and lease a car and have the chance to lease a brand new car fast car with a big engine or an old, loud, slow, small engine (hard drive) beat up car that smells like cat pee for the same price, I'm going to wait until the dealership has the new ones in.

NEW customers should get NEW equipment. Now, I do realize that a new HR23 is still new, and that's fine. New but not _newest_ I should say, but newest would be ideal. These old refurb boxes for new customers are a joke and almost a slap in the face with the shape some of them are in.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I'll say again, that until/unless DIRECTV adopts tiered pricing for its products, all DVRs are considered the same and you get what you get. There is a way to make sure that if you have an HR24, you'll get another one if it's replaced under the protection plan. Beyond that, I've yet to see them give a pathway to getting the DVR of your choice. I was told it was in the works but it hasn't shown up.


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## Sim-X (Sep 24, 2009)

Hoosier205 said:


> If you want to make demands for specific equipment, acquire it yourself.


So you should have to pay for everything out of pocket & install it yourself if your a new customer? That makes no sense at all. Maybe the idiots that came up with the "luck of the draw" policy should rethink the situation a little bit.

So when you go lease a new car from the dealership you should just get whatever they want to give you? Well sir I understand you would like a GT(HR24), but we only have a 4 cylinder so that is what you get.

You are signing a 2 year lease with them, you should be able to pick out what equipment you want. What other company has such an outrageous policy?


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

Sim-X said:


> What other company has such an outrageous policy?


1) Cable TV companies all across the country.
2) Car rental companies which promise you a mid sized sedan and give you whatever is on the lot.
3) Most public schools where, in general, you don't get to pick your teachers.

I'm not saying that a subscriber shouldn't jawbone the system to get the gear they want, or a parent shouldn't move their kid to another classroom if they don't like their teacher, but this is not quite as unusual a situation as you make it, *Sim-X*.


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## cover (Feb 11, 2007)

Sim-X said:


> So you should have to pay for everything out of pocket & install it yourself if your a new customer? That makes no sense at all. Maybe the idiots that came up with the "luck of the draw" policy should rethink the situation a little bit.


Long timers going back to before the leasing model always had to buy the equipment. I personally remembering paying $800 for an HR10 that I still own. The same used to be true with Dish - don't know if it still is.

But certainly it is the case that any cable company hands you whatever they happen to have. I don't like the current "luck of the draw" system either and I think it is a bit ridiculous that DTV's system apparently doesn't even give them the capability to specify which DVR model to ship, even in extraordinary circumstances. That might be OK if all the DVRs really were functionally equivalent, but they are not. Following Stuart's approach, I would even be willing to pay extra for what I want. Thankfully there are still third party retailers like SolidSignal that can provide specific models.

With all that said, I can see huge operational advantages to DTV in treating all the DVRs as equals. There are also advantages to customers, among them much lower up-front costs and easy, no hassle, low/no cost replacement if a DVR dies.


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## Sim-X (Sep 24, 2009)

Actually when I had Comcast, the new DCX3400 boxes came out I got 2 of them swapped out no questions asked, no charges. 

As far as the teacher example, no you don't get to pick your teachers. However if you had a valid reason to switch, I promise you that you could make it happen. 

There is rental car places that let you walk out on the lot and pick the car you want. I assure you a car rental place would charge you more for a "GT" model vs a non-GT. 

Not to mention the fact there is such a small amount of customer who care about what model IRD they get, so let them pick. 

Do you understand how bad your customer satisfaction has to be in order to get an "F" rating from the BBB? I understand they are big company, but the BBB still factors that in and an "F" rating is outrageous. 

Not sure how you could side with DTV on their policy when they have an "F" rating they are clearly doing something wrong and I promise you the way they run their leasing operation has something to do with it.

Can DirecTV run things however they want? They sure can and if I have a problem with it I can leave at anypoint. All I am saying is the policy they have in place right now is an absolute joke because I do like DirecTV and I think they have a great product but they really need to shape up with this leasing business.

Maybe I will open a pizza delivery restaurant and when someone orders a pizza they get whatever kind of pizza I decide to make. So if I have too much sausage in stock they get all sausage or if if I have too much pepperoni I will send them that. That would make people happy.

If DirecTV wants to charge a little extra for a newer model, fine but at least make it an OPTION. You shouldn't have to just get lucky.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Sim-X said:


> ...
> Do you understand how bad your customer satisfaction has to be in order to get an "F" rating from the BBB? I understand they are big company, but the BBB still factors that in and an "F" rating is outrageous.
> 
> Not sure how you could side with DTV on their policy when they have an "F" rating they are clearly doing something wrong and I promise you the way they run their leasing operation has something to do with it.
> ...


The BBB ratings are worthless, but we've beat that horse enough here. You seem to bring it up a lot...Do some research.

Ironically, Directv has ranked #1 in Customer Satisfaction in J.D. Power and Associates, for 7 years in a row, DIRECTV scored higher in customer satisfaction than every cable company measured in the American Customer Satisfaction Index.


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

Sim-X said:


> All I am saying is the policy they have in place right now is an absolute joke because I do like DirecTV and I think they have a great product but they really need to shape up with this leasing business.


It's *SimCity*!


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## joenhre (Nov 8, 2008)

gfrang said:


> Even the first HDdvr HR20 is light years ahead of Comcrap's dvr,i myself would not do that:nono:


I agree the Comcast DVRs (at least the motorolas that I've used) don't compare to Directv's HR line. A lot of that can be blamed on Comcast, because their software makes the boxes even worse than they could be.
Unless you live in an Xfinity area and plan on getting a TIVO (you will lose Comcast's ondemand access unless you also keep a comcast STB) I'd stick with Directv and the HR-23. Or do as others have suggested , get an HR-24 from an online retailer then send the HR-23 back to Directv and see if they will credit the $199.


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## Sim-X (Sep 24, 2009)

sigma1914 said:


> The BBB ratings are worthless, but we've beat that horse enough here. You seem to bring it up a lot...Do some research.
> 
> Ironically, Directv has ranked #1 in Customer Satisfaction in J.D. Power and Associates, for 7 years in a row, DIRECTV scored higher in customer satisfaction than every cable company measured in the American Customer Satisfaction Index.


I only bring it up when people sit there and try to defend DTV & their stupid policies that make no sense at all. I never said comcast DVR was better, I'm saying when a new model came out and I wanted a new one they said ok here you go. Thanks for buying our best programming package and hsi. We would love to swap a box for you and keep you happy.

They just will give my old box to someone that doesn't care what model they get, I on the other hand do care.

I wouldn't say the BBB ratings are worthless. The BBB knows you can't make everyone happy. Are you trying to justify an "F" rating as acceptable because it's not.

All I am saying is DTV's policy on equipment is total BS and no other company I know runs such an awful operation when it comes to leasing equipment. If you think DTV has such a wonderful policy then you can keep the old models and refurbs and I'll fight a little harder for HR24's.

Look at our poor OP here, he gets lied to by a tech and now he is SOL. You guys sit there and defend dtv and dtv is the ones in the wrong here.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

Sim-X said:


> I only bring it up when people sit there and try to defend DTV & their stupid policies that make no sense at all. I never said comcast DVR was better, I'm saying when a new model came out and I wanted a new one they said ok here you go. Thanks for buying our best programming package and hsi. We would love to swap a box for you and keep you happy.
> 
> They just will give my old box to someone that doesn't care what model they get, I on the other hand do care.
> 
> ...


BBB ratings are both worthless and pointless. Everyone seems to be aware of that...but you. Apparently, you are not aware of what it takes to get a positive or negative rating with them. If you, or anyone else, demands to have a specific model then you have ability to go and get one. This is all very simple. You do not have the right to demand specific equipment. You do have the right to acquire specific equipment yourself. Get over it.


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## matt (Jan 12, 2010)

My parents are big on the BBB, or as I call them, the UN of consumer affairs. :grin:

I just laugh when the mention it


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## Sim-X (Sep 24, 2009)

Hoosier205 said:


> BBB ratings are both worthless and pointless. Everyone seems to be aware of that...but you. Apparently, you are not aware of what it takes to get a positive or negative rating with them. If you, or anyone else, demands to have a specific model then you have ability to go and get one. This is all very simple. You do not have the right to demand specific equipment. You do have the right to acquire specific equipment yourself. Get over it.


I suppose you think eBay feedback is pretty worthless as well. eBay should just do away with that all together. It's not like a company pays a fee to be a member of the BBB  How about when you browse through the yellow pages and see all the huge companies PAYING to carry the BBB logo? Obviously it means something or companies wouldn't be dishing out there own cash to pay for it or working hard to carrying a good reputation.

I suppose you think Angie's list is pointless as well. Is that why people are willing to pay a membership fee to join?

Look I agree with you a lot of people are stupid and complain for no reason at all. I deal with BBB complaints for the company I work for and if you send in your rebuttal and were fair to the customer they will find your answer an reasonable and close the case.

You don't get an "F" rating being reasonable to customers.

I sure hope you are not a business owner the way you think. You would drive a business right into the ground.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

Sim-X said:


> I suppose you think eBay feedback is pretty worthless as well. eBay should just do away with that all together. It's not like a company pays a fee to be a member of the BBB  How about when you browse through the yellow pages and see all the huge companies PAYING to carry the BBB logo? Obviously it means something or companies wouldn't be dishing out there own cash to pay for it or working hard to carrying a good reputation.
> 
> I suppose you think Angie's list is pointless as well. Is that why people are willing to pay a membership fee to join?
> 
> ...


Thank you for proving my point...you have no idea what companies actually do to acquire a good BBB rating. You have to pay off the BBB like the mob.


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## devaska1 (Jul 15, 2010)

I'm not sticking up for the BBB's system of ratings but, many average consumers or would be customers do rely on it as a valid source of consumer opinion and advice. Not everyone in America has tech aware friends who can help them make well informed decisions about DTV,Cable etc....
What about big companies like DTV that have great BBB ratings what are they doing that DTV is not? 
As for the whole equipment thing, as a new customer I feel like i've been put through the wringer and it's only a month I've been a DTV customer. It's been a lot of work to get things sorted out so i'm semi-happy with my service. I am not so sure how the average non-DBS'er would fare with such issues. Just sayin.....


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## Sim-X (Sep 24, 2009)

Hoosier205 said:


> Thank you for proving my point...you have no idea what companies actually do to acquire a good BBB rating. You have to pay off the BBB like the mob.


A lot of people still look at BBB records, regardless if they are fair or not. All I'm saying you really have to run a craptastic operation to have an "F" rating. Part of that operation is how there policy on equipment works. Obviously DTV doesn't care that much or they would change it.


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## matt (Jan 12, 2010)

Hoosier205 said:


> Thank you for proving my point...you have no idea what companies actually do to acquire a good BBB rating. You have to pay off the BBB like the mob.


I'm not doubting or calling you out or anything, I too think the BBB is useless anymore, but I would like to know exactly what goes into the ratings please.


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## Sim-X (Sep 24, 2009)

matt1124 said:


> I'm not doubting or calling you out or anything, I too think the BBB is useless anymore, but I would like to know exactly what goes into the ratings please.


I would like to know as well, but correct or not people still look at them.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Sim-X said:


> A lot of people still look at BBB records, regardless if they are fair or not. All I'm saying you really have to run a craptastic operation to have an "F" rating. Part of that operation is how there policy on equipment works. Obviously DTV doesn't care that much or they would change it.


If you don't pay the BBB dues = F


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## Sim-X (Sep 24, 2009)

sigma1914 said:


> If you don't pay the BBB dues = F


Oh my goodness, that's not true. I don't think DTV is too worried about paying some BBB dues. I'm pretty sure they could swing it :nono2:

You can't buy an A rating either


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

Sim-X said:


> Oh my goodness, that's not true. I don't think DTV is too worried about paying some BBB dues. I'm pretty sure they could swing it :nono2:
> 
> You can't buy an A rating either


You just keep proving our point for us. Thank you for making this so easy.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Sim-X said:


> Oh my goodness, that's not true. I don't think DTV is too worried about paying some BBB dues. I'm pretty sure they could swing it :nono2:
> 
> You can't buy an A rating either


Keep thinking that.


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

And all of this has what to do with getting a HR24?

Here is the thread to discuss DirecTV's rating with the Better Business Bureau.

Otherwise, how about if we get back on topic?


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## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

Matt_Stevens said:


> . . . .
> Otherwise, I'll suck it up and go Comcrap.


More like bending over!


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## poppin_fresh (Oct 14, 2006)

I called dtv today to talk through my lack of getting what I asked for yesterday. Needless to say I got nowhere. The csr basically said to call the installer and ask them to pull a couple 24s aside and call me when they're in. I called him and left a message. I have another install scheduled for next Tuesday, but the installer has yet to call me back. 

I told them I'm not in a hurry and don't mind waiting a couple weeks if I have to for stock. I have a feeling this is an excersise in futility. We'll see.


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## devaska1 (Jul 15, 2010)

In my case everything, I am a new customer who got a defective, refurbished HR22-100 DVR on initial install. I had nothing but problems from day one, after much work(DTV should be paying me ha) and research I asked for and received an HR24-100 which works like a gem. IMO it should be standard to give all new subs the newest equipment, not refurbished, rehashed crap. As a new customer I wouldn't expect anything less. Here is a link to the thread describing my first month with DTV. http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=181533
Thanks



Carl Spock said:


> And all of this has what to do with getting a HR24?
> 
> Here is the thread to discuss DirecTV's rating with the Better Business Bureau.
> Otherwise, how about if we get back on topic?





devaska1 said:


> I'm not sticking up for the BBB's system of ratings but, many average consumers or would be customers do rely on it as a valid source of consumer opinion and advice. Not everyone in America has tech aware friends who can help them make well informed decisions about DTV,Cable etc....
> What about big companies like DTV that have great BBB ratings what are they doing that DTV is not?
> As for the whole equipment thing, as a new customer I feel like i've been put through the wringer and it's only a month I've been a DTV customer. It's been a lot of work to get things sorted out so i'm semi-happy with my service. I am not so sure how the average non-DBS'er would fare with such issues. Just sayin.....


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## devaska1 (Jul 15, 2010)

poppin_fresh said:


> I called dtv today to talk through my lack of getting what I asked for yesterday. Needless to say I got nowhere. The csr basically said to call the installer and ask them to pull a couple 24s aside and call me when they're in. I called him and left a message. I have another install scheduled for next Tuesday, but the installer has yet to call me back.
> 
> I told them I'm not in a hurry and don't mind waiting a couple weeks if I have to for stock. I have a feeling this is an excersise in futility. We'll see.


If I were you i'd hold out, or do all you can to twist your tech/installers arm to find some 24's for you. After my recent problems I think the wait might be worth it!


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## Sim-X (Sep 24, 2009)

Hoosier205 said:


> You just keep proving our point for us. Thank you for making this so easy.





sigma1914 said:


> Keep thinking that.


You know with all your guys knowledge, I'm surprised you guys don't go work for DirecTV. You could help them keep that F rating they work so hard on.

Heck you guys could even go into business together, always good to get your rating down with the BBB when starting a new company.

I heard the BBB is so ridiculous that no customer would even think to check with them before signing on with a company. Let alone a 2 year agreement.

You know what, let's give the BBB an "F" rating since they are so worthless. I'm gonna start telling our customers that the BBB is stupid and pointless. You guys would make for some great business owners. When a customer asks why your BBB rating sucks you can just tell them they are stupid. I'm sure the customer will be like you know what, your right.


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## matt (Jan 12, 2010)

That last line is so good, it is now in my signature 

EDIT: Well, you edited it, so I guess the first part of the last line is good.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

Sim-X said:


> You know what, let's give the BBB an "F" rating since they are so worthless.


Way ahead of you. Feel free to come back and continue this discussion once you have brushed up on the details.


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## Sim-X (Sep 24, 2009)

matt1124 said:


> That last line is so good, it is now in my signature


lol, looks great


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## Sim-X (Sep 24, 2009)

Hoosier205 said:


> Way ahead of you. Feel free to come back and continue this discussion once you have brushed up on the details.


Well your the mastermind here, you tell me.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Sim-X said:


> You know with all your guys knowledge, I'm surprised you guys don't go work for DirecTV. You could help them keep that F rating they work so hard on.
> 
> Heck you guys could even go into business together, always good to get your rating down with the BBB when starting a new company.
> 
> ...


AT&T gets slammed by tons of people. They had 8,628 complaints filed the last 36 months ..*they are accredited*...guess their rank. A+


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## Sim-X (Sep 24, 2009)

sigma1914 said:


> AT&T gets slammed by tons of people. They had 8,628 complaints filed the last 36 months ..*they are accredited*...guess their rank. A+


Just curious if you ever passed math class. Let's do some simple math here.

AT&T Aprox 8,600 complaints over 36 months = about 239 complaints per month on average.

DTV, almost 40,000 complaints over 36 months = about 1,100+ complaints per month.

Now go take a look at all the DBA names that AT&T does business under. Now take all those companies and figure millions upon millions of customers combined. The u-verse division alone one could only imagine how many customers they have. U-verse in case you didn't know happens to be in a similar business as directv. Now I personally don't like at&t but props to them for keeping a clean record.

So AT&T's complaint rate just happens to be about 460% lower than DirecTV with millions upon millions more customers.

You guys are right, by doing some quick math you can clearly see that AT&T must just pay off the BBB to get that A rating. Not like they actually run a square operation or handle customers complaints better than DTV.

Man you guys need to go back to elementary school and learn some math.

How does it make any sense that at&t has an A rating with way less complaints. That doesn't seem right  That is outrageous, the BBB is worthless!

It's not like AT&T may have actually EARNED that rating. I'm sure they just paid the BBB off, makes sense right?


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Sim-X said:


> Just curious if you ever passed math class. Let's do some simple math here.
> 
> AT&T Aprox 8,600 complaints over 36 months = about 239 complaints per month on average.
> 
> ...


This might wake you up:


Doug Brott said:


> The fact that DIRECTV got an 'F' despite responding to all but a handful (<50) of the complaints is a bit suspicious.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## matt (Jan 12, 2010)

15,009 Best Buy customers who can't read, huh? Always wondered how many it was!


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## Sim-X (Sep 24, 2009)

sigma1914 said:


> This might wake you up:


now I want you to add up all of at&t customers under the DBA list and do the same math you just showed me.


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## matt (Jan 12, 2010)

What is AT&T's complaint rate?


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## devaska1 (Jul 15, 2010)

I am sure that the BBB partly bases its ratings on how long a company has been in business and also in large part on not just the number of complaints. But the number of complaints that are resolved. That leads me to believe that there must be a ton of outstanding complaints about DTV open at the BBB. If someone has more info feel free to add. And maybe this thread out to be moved to one specific to DTV and the BBB. And here is the link to how the BBB determines it's rankings/grades. http://sandiego.bbb.org/ratingsystem/



Sim-X said:


> Just curious if you ever passed math class. Let's do some simple math here.
> 
> AT&T Aprox 8,600 complaints over 36 months = about 239 complaints per month on average.
> 
> ...


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## Sim-X (Sep 24, 2009)

matt1124 said:


> 15,009 Best Buy customers who can't read, huh? Always wondered how many it was!


Your sig looks awesome, btw


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

:nono2:


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Sim-X said:


> now I want you to add up all of at&t customers under the DBA list and do the same math you just showed me.


You're the math whiz.


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## devaska1 (Jul 15, 2010)

sigma1914 beat me to the punch theres my answer mostly anyway!


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## awblackmon (May 20, 2009)

I have for a long time seen posts where people are not happy due to not getting the latest model DVR installed. I was a sub_contractor installer doing installs for DTV and we went out of the shop with whatever we had in stock that day. Often it was refurbished DVRs and I was not warmly greeted by customers when I would show up.

Now two years later I am still installing Directv, but now I do it for a retail store. If other retailers are anything like the place I am working, IF you want the latest model you should call your retailer for signing up to DTV. We don't have HR 20 or 22 or 23 anywhere on our shelves. We only install HR 24 and H24. I installed the last of the HR 23s 5 weeks ago and we only order and receive the HR24s now.

So I would suggest you call your local retail store and have their technician bring and install exactly what you want. 

Notice I did not say what store I work for due to what I think may be rules against such a thing, but I do think talking about retail outlets for DTV in general should be ok. Consider it if you really want the latest gear. The sales guy should be able to have some control over sending you out the gear you want. If not, call the next retail shop and talk with them. 

In the end, you are putting income into the pockets of people that live in the town you live in.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

devaska1 said:


> In my case everything, I am a new customer who got a defective, refurbished HR22-100 DVR on initial install. I had nothing but problems from day one, after much work(DTV should be paying me ha) and research I asked for and received an HR24-100 which works like a gem. IMO it should be standard to give all new subs the newest equipment, not refurbished, rehashed crap. As a new customer I wouldn't expect anything less. Here is a link to the thread describing my first month with DTV. http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=181533
> Thanks


There's been customers that have received defective HR24's and there have been many customers that have received perfectly working refurbished HR22's. Getting new does not mean it will be perfect and getting a refurb does not mean it will be crap.


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

Great post, *awblackmon*. :righton:

This was my solution when I joined the leased equipment world back in 2007. In addition to all the advantages mentioned in your post, I also found my local installer was priced competitively with the deal I could get by calling into DirecTV.

I took control of the situation and got exactly what I wanted when I wanted it. I didn't need to cancel any installs, get frustrated or even involve the AAA, err, the BBB.


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## devaska1 (Jul 15, 2010)

I hear ya spartanstew, I'm only relaying my experience as a month old DTV customer, it's tough to have a good attitude about a company when the first thing they do is send you equipment that's refurbished and doesn't even work. All i'm saying is there's got to be some way that DTV can ensure that new customers get fully functional equipment. So far to me it seems like a crapshoot. Hey, there's a chance you might get some equipment that works, but there's also a chance you'll get a POS*** too. That doesn't inspire customers to rave about a company.



spartanstew said:


> There's been customers that have received defective HR24's and there have been many customers that have received perfectly working refurbished HR22's. Getting new does not mean it will be perfect and getting a refurb does not mean it will be crap.


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## Sim-X (Sep 24, 2009)

sigma1914 said:


> You're the math whiz.


I can't count that high, ran out of fingers



devaska1 said:


> sigma1914 beat me to the punch theres my answer mostly anyway!


Maybe you could count that high?



spartanstew said:


> There's been customers that have received defective HR24's and there have been many customers that have received perfectly working refurbished HR22's. Getting new does not mean it will be perfect and getting a refurb does not mean it will be crap.


I have heard of people getting bad iphone4's (all of them? wink wink) So should at&t hand out a refurb 3gs for a iphone4, it's the same phone right?



awblackmon said:


> I have for a long time seen posts where people are not happy due to not getting the latest model DVR installed. I was a sub_contractor installer doing installs for DTV and we went out of the shop with whatever we had in stock that day. Often it was refurbished DVRs and I was not warmly greeted by customers when I would show up.
> 
> Now two years later I am still installing Directv, but now I do it for a retail store. If other retailers are anything like the place I am working, IF you want the latest model you should call your retailer for signing up to DTV. We don't have HR 20 or 22 or 23 anywhere on our shelves. We only install HR 24 and H24. I installed the last of the HR 23s 5 weeks ago and we only order and receive the HR24s now.
> 
> ...


I think that is great what you are doing. However as a paying customer you shouldn't be treated differently or have to take such measures to get the service you want.

I shouldn't have to go to say a Sprint store to get special treatment then say Best Buy Mobile. Both places offer the same service and products, one shouldn't operate all that much differently than the other.


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

Sim-X said:


> I shouldn't have to go to say a Sprint store to get special treatment then say Best Buy Mobile. Both places offer the same service and products, one shouldn't operate all that much differently than the other.


Huh? Why not? This makes no sense.

People go to different stores all the time for the same product. Are all Chevy dealers the same? If you are shopping for a Chevy Malibu, don't you hit all the local dealers to find the one where you can get the best price? I certainly do.

I built my stereo store on the premise that we gave the customer better service than Best Buy ever could. Customers got that difference. Was I wrong to do that?

Barnes & Noble has a better selection of books at better prices than the corner bookshop. While we might regret the demise of the local bookseller (I certainly do), I'm more likely to buy a current best seller at B&N because it is cheaper. Should I not do that?

Do you ever shop at Byerly's Grocerys in the Twin Cities, Sim-X? They exist to give the customer a better experience at the supermarket (and nothing is more of a commodity product than a box of corn flakes). Are they wrong, too?

You've made a lot of good points in this thread, Sim-X, but on this one, you are totally wet.


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## Sim-X (Sep 24, 2009)

Carl Spock said:


> Huh? Why not? This makes no sense.
> 
> People go to different stores all the time for the same product. Are all Chevy dealers the same? If you are shopping for a Chevy Malibu, don't you hit all the local dealers to find the one where you can get the best price? I certainly do.
> 
> ...


Those are some good points. I guess I was more thinking like you should be able to buy a car from any Chevy dealership and expect the same warranty on the sticker. You should be able to buy a book from B&N or amazon and expect it to me the same quality (hardback we will say) and not have to worry about the luck of the draw. I do agree with you some places certainly offer better service than others. At the end of the day if I buy a new evo from either sprint store or best buy mobile, I'm going to walk out with a brand new evo in the box with the same service plan. I wouldn't ever worry about getting old stock ore refurbs at one place vs the other. I may have a better overall exp at one place vs the other but at the end of the day it will work out to be the same product and service.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Sim-X said:


> Those are some good points. I guess I was more thinking like you should be able to buy a car from any Chevy dealership and expect the same warranty on the sticker. You should be able to buy a book from B&N or amazon and expect it to me the same quality (hardback we will say) and not have to worry about the luck of the draw. I do agree with you some places certainly offer better service than others. At the end of the day if I buy a new evo from either sprint store or best buy mobile, I'm going to walk out with a brand new evo in the box with the same service plan. I wouldn't ever worry about getting old stock ore refurbs at one place vs the other. I may have a better overall exp at one place vs the other but at the end of the day it will work out to be the same product and service.


But those are all things you're buying. You're just borrowing a D* DVR.


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## Sim-X (Sep 24, 2009)

spartanstew said:


> But those are all things you're buying. You're just borrowing a D* DVR.


So when you go sign a lease for a car, you just gonna let the dealership pick out whatever model they feel is adequate? Your just borrowing the car, a car is a car.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

The lease model for a car is quite different from the lease model for a DVR. About the only thing they have in common is the word "lease."


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

Stuart Sweet said:


> The lease model for a car is quite different from the lease model for a DVR. About the only thing they have in common is the word "lease."


I don't agree. :nono:

The only obvious anagram I see for _lease_ is _easel_, but when you bring in _car_ and _dvr_, the difference becomes obvious. _Car lease_ gets you _Earl's Ace_, while _dvr lease_ can be turned into _rad elves_.

And as everyone knows, _Earl's Ace_ trumps _rad elves_ any day of the week.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

OK, that's seriously brilliant. I bow down to the superior intellect.


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

Hardly. 

That came from years of playing an old game, Anagrams, with a friend. It takes training to become this obsessed.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Sim-X said:


> So when you go sign a lease for a car, you just gonna let the dealership pick out whatever model they feel is adequate? Your just borrowing the car, a car is a car.


You can't keep comparing to whatever you feel is relevant at the time of your post. It's different than a car lease. It's more equivalent to a rental car, where they give you whatever car in that class they have (and yes, National allows Emerald Members to pick whatever car they want, but that's an exception).

You can complain all you want, but that's the way it is. Each model of DVR is slightly different (the HR20's have OTA, some have a bit larger HD, some are a bit faster), but in D*'s mind they're all DVR's and are treated the same.

You get what you get.


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## devaska1 (Jul 15, 2010)

I don't necessarily agree with that statement, "you get what you get". I realize that this is the way DTV is currently running their business, ,but it just doesn't make sense from a consumers point of view. There are just way too many opportunities for problems with equipment and customer service when a company takes that attitude for a business model. 
I think if there were tiered service levels and or the ability to pick what equipment you want it might eliminate some of the issues and complaints that subs have about DTV. Maybe they charge some sort of premium for the newest latest DVR and not so much for the refurbs. At least then the customer knows what they are getting and DTV could say hey you paid less for the refurbished equipment and issues are part of the deal. 
I sure that there are tons of people out here with way better ideas or solutions for a DTV business model, I'd love to hear some suggestions.



spartanstew said:


> You can't keep comparing to whatever you feel is relevant at the time of your post. It's different than a car lease. It's more equivalent to a rental car, where they give you whatever car in that class they have (and yes, National allows Emerald Members to pick whatever car they want, but that's an exception).
> 
> You can complain all you want, but that's the way it is. Each model of DVR is slightly different (the HR20's have OTA, some have a bit larger HD, some are a bit faster), but in D*'s mind they're all DVR's and are treated the same.
> 
> You get what you get.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

devaska1 said:


> I don't necessarily agree with that statement, "you get what you get". I realize that this is the way DTV is currently running their business, ,but it just doesn't make sense from a consumers point of view. There are just way too many opportunities for problems with equipment and customer service when a company takes that attitude for a business model.


I don't see this as an "attitude" or even a "business model".

Fact is all broadcast delivery providers evolve their equipment over time. New technology is created, adopted, and released. Nothing new or exclusive to DirecTV on that. A symptom of that evolution is that different customers will have different makes, models, and ages of equipment in the field. Again, nothing exclusive or unique there either.

In its simplest form, all equipment needs to support the services that a customer pays for...period. As long as it does, how the provider accomplishes that is up to their discretion. Certainly, customer satisfaction is required, but that does not translate into an "entitlement" process for everyone to have the latest equipment either. Accommodating everything new for every customer at every new equipment release would be a bad (and extremely costly) business model.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

devaska1 said:


> I don't necessarily agree with that statement, "you get what you get". I realize that this is the way DTV is currently running their business, ,but it just doesn't make sense from a consumers point of view. There are just way too many opportunities for problems with equipment and customer service when a company takes that attitude for a business model.
> I think if there were tiered service levels and or the ability to pick what equipment you want it might eliminate some of the issues and complaints that subs have about DTV. Maybe they charge some sort of premium for the newest latest DVR and not so much for the refurbs. At least then the customer knows what they are getting and DTV could say hey you paid less for the refurbished equipment and issues are part of the deal.
> I sure that there are tons of people out here with way better ideas or solutions for a DTV business model, I'd love to hear some suggestions.


So you'd have the informed customers cherry picking equipment, while the uninformed get the rest. You'd either end up with a dramatic shortage of H24/HR24's or you'd end up with everyone requesting H24/HR24's while perfectly capable H20/H21/H23 & HR20/HR21/HR22/HR23 models sit idle. It doesn't matter what you get so long as it works. It doesn't matter if it is new or used. If it works...it works. It isn't actually yours. You don't own it. It belongs to DirecTV. They will use the most cost effective way of dealing with leasing receivers and that makes perfect sense.

You do get what you get, unless you acquire one yourself. That's just how it is.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I see Hoosier205's point, and I also see the point that there's a missed opportunity for profit here. I suppose we all should consider ourselves lucky that they _don't_ charge extra for the latest receivers, or make us wait two years for a discounted price the way that cell phone providers do. (Granted, in that case you own the phone but that's really not the point I'm trying to make.)


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## Sim-X (Sep 24, 2009)

spartanstew said:


> You can't keep comparing to whatever you feel is relevant at the time of your post. It's different than a car lease. It's more equivalent to a rental car, where they give you whatever car in that class they have (and yes, National allows Emerald Members to pick whatever car they want, but that's an exception).
> 
> You can complain all you want, but that's the way it is. Each model of DVR is slightly different (the HR20's have OTA, some have a bit larger HD, some are a bit faster), but in D*'s mind they're all DVR's and are treated the same.
> 
> You get what you get.


I have yet to hear you come up with another company that runs things sooo bad as DirecTV when it comes to the equipment.

All DVRS's are not the same, the HR24 is a better model. Stop kissing there azz so much. Since you seem to think they are all the same, you keep your crappy HR22's or whatever you have and I will take the HR24's.

Maybe for you it's you get what you get, but for a new customer that wants the new stuff they can tell the installer to leave. Right or wrong they can do that. So since you seem to think DTV is on the up and up on this one, you and all your supporters can use up all the junk models. That just leaves more HR24's for people that want them. If every single new customer turned away installers that brought old models, DTV would be rethinking there game plan pretty quick. Does this suck for the installers? Yes it does but pretty soon you would have all the installer complaining and you would think at that point DTV might stop smoking whatever they are smoking.

Not to mention how is a car lease any different, just on a bigger scale. You go to the dealership, you say I wanna lease X car and you put down a payment and make monthly payments till the lease is up. How is DTV any different? You pay an up front lease fee (down payment), you have to pay a monthly fee to use the box (car payment) Heck you can even take care insurance out on it (protection plan) You have to give it back when your done with the service. Explain to me how that is any different. So you think the dealership should just hand over whatever car they consider "the same"? Sorry sir but we ran out of GT's so you can have a 4 banger instead but don't worry it still does the same thing. I'm sure that would go over real well. When a new customer is dishing out a couple hundo for a box and a 2 year agreement, they should get to pick, it's that simple. I can't think of one other place that operates such a horse **** operation.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

Sim-X said:


> I have yet to hear you come up with another company that runs things sooo bad as DirecTV when it comes to the equipment.
> 
> All DVRS's are not the same, the HR24 is a better model. Stop kissing there azz so much. Since you seem to think they are all the same, you keep your crappy HR22's or whatever you have and I will take the HR24's.
> 
> Maybe for you it's you get what you get, but for a new customer that wants the new stuff they can tell the installer to leave. Right or wrong they can do that. So since you seem to think DTV is on the up and up on this one, you and all your supporters can use up all the junk models. That just leaves more HR24's for people that want them.


Aside from very few differences, yes...they are all basically the same.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Sim-X said:


> I have yet to hear you come up with another company that runs things sooo bad as DirecTV when it comes to the equipment.


Dish Network.....Comcast...just to start a list....

Take a peek into the Dish side of the DBSTalk house....and see the exact same things there....the VIP 622, 722, and now 922 discussions run quite parallel to those on the DirecTV side.

Comcast...heck...their own installers don't even know know the "latest" information on available models. I saw one neighbor go through 5 (yes 5) onsite installer trips to get HD installed with 1 HD DVR and 3 HD receivers, switching boxes on more than one occasion because they weren't even HD units. . Those pain points are not exclusive to any one provider.


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## Sim-X (Sep 24, 2009)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Dish Network.....Comcast...just to start a list....
> 
> Take a peek into the Dish side of the DBSTalk house....and see the exact same things there....the VIP 622, 722, and now 922 discussions run quite parallel to those on the DirecTV side.
> 
> Comcast...heck...their own installers don't even know know the "latest" information on available models. I saw one neighbor go through 5 (yes 5) onsite installer trips to get HD installed with 1 HD DVR and 3 HD receivers, switching boxes on more than one occasion because they weren't even HD units. . Those pain points are not exclusive to any one provider.


Well your wrong with Comcast, I had 2 boxes swapped out no questions asked.

Dish Network, http://www.dishnetwork.com/receivers/hd/default.aspx

Hmmm, they actually list DIFFERENT model numbers for there boxes. Maybe because of the rare chance that a customer may actually want a certain model?


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Sim-X said:


> Well your wrong with Comcast, I had 2 boxes swapped out no questions asked.
> 
> Dish Network, http://www.dishnetwork.com/receivers/hd/default.aspx
> 
> Hmmm, they actually list DIFFERENT model numbers for there boxes. Maybe because of the rare chance that a customer may actually want a certain model?


So, you're good expierence with Comcast means they're all great and he's wrong?  My buddy got a new HR24 installed...I guess you're wrong & Directv's method is great and there's no issues!


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Sim-X said:


> Well your wrong with Comcast, I had 2 boxes swapped out no questions asked.
> 
> Dish Network, http://www.dishnetwork.com/receivers/hd/default.aspx
> 
> Hmmm, they actually list DIFFERENT model numbers for there boxes. Maybe because of the rare chance that a customer may actually want a certain model?


So...that single experience represents their standard practices?

Suspect not.

I can equate multiple contrary examples, including their repeated refusal to provide specific models that were requested by a customer paying $225 per month for their services and having 8 HD devices.

Comcast got their distinct ranking as a very poor customer service organization the old fashion way - *they earned it*.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

devaska1 said:


> I don't necessarily agree with that statement, "you get what you get".


You can choose not to agree, but it's still fact.



Sim-X said:


> I have yet to hear you come up with another company that runs things sooo bad as DirecTV when it comes to the equipment.


I didn't realize that was the game. IMO, they don't run things soooo badly. Could it be done differently? Sure. Doesn't mean it's terrible.



Sim-X said:


> All DVRS's are not the same,


I think I already said that.



Sim-X said:


> Stop kissing there azz so much. Since you seem to think they are all the same, you keep your crappy HR22's or whatever you have and I will take the HR24's.


1. I'm pointing out to you the way things ARE. It's not a philosophy discussion or a "boy I wish" discussion.
2. I'll make a deal with you. I'll stop stating facts (or as you claim, kissing thier azz), if you stop being so obtuse.



Sim-X said:


> Since you seem to think they are all the same, you keep your crappy HR22's or whatever you have and I will take the HR24's.


That's my plan. I don't have an HR24 and don't particularly want one. I'm very happy with my HR20's and HR21's.



Sim-X said:


> Maybe for you it's you get what you get,


No, it's that way for EVERYONE. That's the business model they're using. It's not that way for me. It's that way for all. I'm not sure why you're having so much trouble comprehending this, it's not difficult.



Sim-X said:


> but for a new customer that wants the new stuff they can tell the installer to leave.


Yep, and there's been at least one thread about someone that did that and D* denied them any future installs. If that's what someone wants, go for it.



Sim-X said:


> So since you seem to think DTV is on the up and up on this one, you and all your supporters can use up all the junk models.


There you go again, trying to put words in peoples mouths. I'm pointing out that that's the WAY IT IS. Did I say I agree with it? Did I say it was perfect? You sir, have many problems.



Sim-X said:


> Not to mention how is a car lease any different, just on a bigger scale. You go to the dealership, you say I wanna lease X car and you put down a payment and make monthly payments till the lease is up. How is DTV any different? You pay an up front lease fee (down payment), you have to pay a monthly fee to use the box (car payment) Heck you can even take care insurance out on it (protection plan) You have to give it back when your done with the service. Explain to me how that is any different.


Really? You don't know the difference? For one, you have the option to purchase a leased car at the end of a lease, which is why it's important to get one that you want. Two, a car that you drive around in every day and is responsible for the transportation of your family, is just a bit more important in the grand scheme of things than TV. Three, a car has a certain value that is negotiable upfront. Every car has a different value and it's right on the sticker. That value and it's depreciation is calculable. All the DVR's have the same value. The last time I leased a car I wanted a black one. They had a white one on the lot with the same features and the same sticker, so I took it. But if it would have had different options, the value would have been different and things would have been totally different.



Sim-X said:


> When a new customer is dishing out a couple hundo for a box and a 2 year agreement, they should get to pick, it's that simple. I can't think of one other place that operates such a horse **** operation.


As others have mentioned, there's several. When I was with cable many years ago, you got whatever box they gave you - new, refurb, it didn't matter. When I signed up with Verizon FIOS internet, I received a refubed (used) router. No biggie. Many companies do it. Should a D* customer get to pick? I don't know. Most people wouldn't know what to pick or what the difference is, so it's not that simple. What I don't understand is why you would be here and be paying a company that you feel has such a terrible operation.

Do you just like to ***** and complain? Must be a real good time at home with you.

My wife bought a t-mobile phone and an agreement 3 months ago. The phone sucked, the service sucked. We cancelled and ate the $200+ early termination fee. Life's too short to have ****ty cellphone service regardless of the cost. We didn't go on the tmobile websites and spend all of our time complaning. But that's just us. If I didn't like the service, business model and equipment that D* has, I'd be gone. Regardless of the cost. Again, life's too short. But for people like you, you'll never be happy. If it weren't this issue, it'd be something else.

Your life will always be miserable. At least you have that to look forward to.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

spartanstew said:


> You can choose not to agree, but it's still fact.
> 
> I didn't realize that was the game. IMO, they don't run things soooo badly. Could it be done differently? Sure. Doesn't mean it's terrible.
> 
> ...


:nono2:...That's got to be a record for Multi Quotes!


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## matt (Jan 12, 2010)

Congratulations


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## netraa (Mar 28, 2007)

Sim-X said:


> I have yet to hear you come up with another company that runs things sooo bad as DirecTV when it comes to the equipment.


Enterprise rent a car, walk in, make your choice from....

Economy
Economy car rental Chevy Aveo* or similar * 
Compact
Compact car rental Nissan Versa, Toyota Yaris *or similar * 
Intermediate
Intermediate car rental Pontiac G5, Nissan Sentra *or similar* 
Full Size
Full size car rental Chevy Impala, Nissan Altima, Dodge Charger *or similar*

you sign your rental agreement that says it works when you drive it off the lot, that if you wreck it you pay for it unless you bought the extra insurance, if it breaks we'll replace it with the closest thing that we have available for you.

Bring it back full of gas, on time, undamaged or you get socked for a fee. Bring it back early pay a fee.
Bring it back to the wrong place pay a fee.
Take it from the airport, pay a fee.

Don't like what we have on the lot... Alamo and Budget are right down the hallway.

take your key, go get in the car they assigned you, and drive off.


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## docderwood (Oct 27, 2006)

I've had Directv for 5 years. I HATE the fact you can't request the receiver you want to order from them and think it is RETARDED. I love the people who say you get what you get. Using that logic, you coud give me an old Directv tivo. 

It's a stupid policy/way to run a business. Why not tiered pricing on the leases or some other way to give customers more freedom of choice? :nono:


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

docderwood said:


> I've had Directv for 5 years. I HATE the fact you can't request the receiver you want to order from them and think it is RETARDED. I love the people who say you get what you get. Using that logic, you coud give me an old Directv tivo.
> 
> It's a stupid policy/way to run a business. Why not tiered pricing on the leases or some other way to give customers more freedom of choice? :nono:


So apparently you failed to read all the earlier posts that shared the fact that other providers so exactly the same thing, but chose to simply vent and rant instead.

You also chose not to read the previous posts which indicated you could, in fact, get the unit you requested from SolidSignal or another vendor.

These hit and run posts boggle the mind.


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## poppin_fresh (Oct 14, 2006)

I understand that Directv probably has a glut of decent refurb equipment that people can use rather than sending it to the landfill. That's fine, I respect that. 

Where I have a problem is that I'm not given the option of whether I want new or refurbished. I have bought refurbished stuff before (big fan of Woot.com) but this was at a discount, in exchange for the risk. I don't see where I'm being offered a discount to take equipment that is used or has died before.

As near as I can tell I get the same warranty with either. If that's the case...I'll take new please. I dont see any reward (discount) for the risk of taking used equipment. 

Some people have said to just suck it up and buy my equipment to get what I want. That makes very poor business sense in my opinion. Why outlay hundreds of dollars when I can lease the equipment so cheap? It is always better to use someone else's money when you can. If I had the cash to buy a new car outright, but could get a 0% loan, why would I give up all my cash? Let the lender make no money, while I keep mine cash and put it to work for me!


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

poppin_fresh said:


> Where I have a problem is that I'm not given the option of whether I want new or refurbished. I have bought refurbished stuff before (big fan of Woot.com) but this was at a discount, in exchange for the risk. I don't see where I'm being offered a discount to take equipment that is used or has died before.
> 
> As near as I can tell I get the same warranty with either. If that's the case...I'll take new please. I dont see any reward (discount) for the risk of taking used equipment.


I would think everyone would rather have new, but most importantly they'd rather have one that works. If the refurb works, what's the big deal? If it doesn't, they'll send you another. Sometimes new ones are bad too.


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## Sim-X (Sep 24, 2009)

docderwood said:


> I've had Directv for 5 years. I HATE the fact you can't request the receiver you want to order from them and think it is RETARDED. I love the people who say you get what you get. Using that logic, you coud give me an old Directv tivo.
> 
> It's a stupid policy/way to run a business. Why not tiered pricing on the leases or some other way to give customers more freedom of choice? :nono:


Well said.

As far as you spartansstew,

We could go back and forth all day long with examples. The bottom line here is DirecTV has some issues with their policy cause there is a lot of people that don't like that fact they can't request a certain model. It makes absolutely no sense what so ever. That being said, since you think they run such a great operation with their "F" BBB rating (I know I know, the BBB is worthless and isn't fair), why don't you do my a favor and give DirecTV a call and tell them what a great job they do running their operations in regards to set top box equipment. I'm sure they would love to hear from you since all the calls they get are for people being P.O'd when the installer shows up with pos refurb boxes. I'm impressed with your multi-quote btw


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

docderwood said:


> I've had Directv for 5 years. I HATE the fact you can't request the receiver you want to order from them and think it is RETARDED. I love the people who say you get what you get. Using that logic, you coud give me an old Directv tivo.
> 
> It's a stupid policy/way to run a business. Why not tiered pricing on the leases or some other way to give customers more freedom of choice? :nono:


You can acquire any model you wish yourself. It is very simple to do.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Hoosier205 said:


> You can acquire any model you wish yourself. It is very simple to do.


Yup.

...and that's been stated here more than once...for those who took the time to read that information in this thread.


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## matt (Jan 12, 2010)

Got a new HR24 and new H23 today. He even checked the warehouse for an H24 for me. Very nice tech


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

Sim-X said:


> Well said.
> 
> As far as you spartansstew,
> 
> We could go back and forth all day long with examples. The bottom line here is DirecTV has some issues with their policy cause there is a lot of people that don't like that fact they can't request a certain model. It makes absolutely no sense what so ever. That being said, since you think they run such a great operation with their "F" BBB rating (I know I know, the BBB is worthless and isn't fair), why don't you do my a favor and give DirecTV a call and tell them what a great job they do running their operations in regards to set top box equipment. I'm sure they would love to hear from you since all the calls they get are for people being P.O'd when the installer shows up with pos refurb boxes. I'm impressed with your multi-quote btw


DirecTV doesn't have issues with the policy. People who don't like the policy have issues. That's the great choice about consumerism you can choose not to do business with a company who's policy you don't like.


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