# Picture position adjustment on 622



## paulcdavis (Jan 22, 2004)

The HD net test grid shows that the picture output of my 622 is not centered vertically on the screen. My old 921 had a menu item where you could move around the position of the DVI output to center it on the screen. Is there a similar menu item (or hidden menu) on the 622 to allow the output picture position to be adjusted?

I have a Samsung DLP with 720p native resolution and have the 622 set to output 720p connected to the HDMI port on my Samsung.

Thanks,

Paul


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## tomcrown1 (Jan 16, 2006)

Nope no way o center picture on the VIP622. If I remeber this was a feature on the VIP622 when it first came, but Dish in all its wisdom took the ablity away away away away


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

I think you might be confused Tom. I don't recall the 622 ever have this feature. I do remember it on the 921 having it as Paul indicated but I don't think it was ever available on the 622.


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## paulcdavis (Jan 22, 2004)

Ron Barry said:


> I think you might be confused Tom. I don't recall the 622 ever have this feature. I do remember it on the 921 having it as Paul indicated but I don't think it was ever available on the 622.


I could adjust vpos in the service menu of my Samsung but that would screw up my DVI DVD output which is centered on the screen. Thanks anyway. Any chance this feature could (or would) be added to the 622 in a future SW release?


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## lujan (Feb 10, 2004)

I think should be kept as a feature of the TV and never the devices connected to the TV.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

paulcdavis said:


> I could adjust vpos in the service menu of my Samsung but that would screw up my DVI DVD output which is centered on the screen. Thanks anyway. Any chance this feature could (or would) be added to the 622 in a future SW release?


I would add your support for it in the Wish list poll. As for it being added. Given I have not seen it in any of the recent HD DVRs or heard any mention of it my guess would be no, but then again one never knows all that Dish is working on so it might happen.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=953907#post953907


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## Charise (Jan 25, 2004)

I would appreciate it too! I've never had an E* receiver be other than centered, but the 622 picture is too far left and down. I miss an entire channel on the guide at the bottom, and can't see the day of the week on the left.


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## Beer Kahuna (Mar 25, 2005)

Charise said:


> I would appreciate it too! I've never had an E* receiver be other than centered, but the 622 picture is too far left and down. I miss an entire channel on the guide at the bottom, and can't see the day of the week on the left.


Me too. I tried to have my TV adjusted but then my DVD is off center (and it tests as centered with a test disk). This is on both component inputs.


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## 4bama (Aug 6, 2006)

lujan said:


> I think should be kept as a feature of the TV and never the devices connected to the TV.


I disagree, why force hundreds of users with different brands of TV's to cope with a common problem that can, and should be, corrected with the 622.

I had started a discussion below about the 622 overscan problems but this string is a good place to continue support for adding this option to a future 622 software release.


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## paulcdavis (Jan 22, 2004)

4bama said:


> I disagree, why force hundreds of users with different brands of TV's to cope with a common problem that can, and should be, corrected with the 622.
> 
> I had started a discussion below about the 622 over-scan problems but this string is a good place to continue support for adding this option to a future 622 software release.


If you are using component cables, every set-up will be different and the time lag added by the type and length of the component video cable may effect picture position. The average user does not care about over-scan or centering the picture or even know about the HDNET test pattern grid. I found that on my 720p Samsung DLP set that the wide setting was causing too much over-scan with my 921, and the expand setting is actually more accurate and sends all 720 lines without rescaling, which improved over-scan allot and yields a sharper image. Every time you rescale a signal, you lose some PQ in the process. To get the best image you should be in native mode and do as little rescaling as possible.

Paul


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## Charise (Jan 25, 2004)

It doesn't matter what mode you are using when you look at the guide--the guide only displays one way, and for me that is too far left and too far down.

I would very much like to see the day of the week and the lowest displayed channel. When I scroll screen-by-screen, I simply don't see each channel that was on the bottom, and it isn't very convenient to get to them.

It's not crucial, but it would be a nice improvement--certainly more useful to me than lots of the upgrades many would like to have on the 622.


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

Does your display have a service mode that will allow you to adjust that particular input?

Ordinarily each input has its own settings so correcting the 622 input would not change any other inputs.


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## lujan (Feb 10, 2004)

Jim5506 said:


> Does your display have a service mode that will allow you to adjust that particular input?
> 
> Ordinarily each input has its own settings so correcting the 622 input would not change any other inputs.


If you read post #5, that's why I think it should be kept on the TV and not the devices connected to it. If the TV works the way it should, each input would have it's own separate settings.


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

If you think of the way the signal is sent to the display, with keying on borders, top, bottom, left and right, the display is the place for such adjustments, not the source. I've never even thought of adjusting the horizonal or vertical centering from a DVD player.

Adjust your display. The 622 does not tell the display where to position the image and any such info it might provide would be bandaid not solution.


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## paulcdavis (Jan 22, 2004)

Jim5506 said:


> If you think of the way the signal is sent to the display, with keying on borders, top, bottom, left and right, the display is the place for such adjustments, not the source. I've never even thought of adjusting the horizonal or vertical centering from a DVD player.
> 
> Adjust your display. The 622 does not tell the display where to position the image and any such info it might provide would be bandaid not solution.


Most display owners don't have the ability (or technical knowledge) to get to the service menu to adjust their display. My Denon (DVI input) is centered on my display, so the problem is on the 622. I'm sure that on the few sets that the 622 was tested with the display was centered. From the HDNET test pattern my 622 is left-4, right-2, top-0, and bottom 2.


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## Charise (Jan 25, 2004)

Jim5506 said:


> Does your display have a service mode that will allow you to adjust that particular input?
> 
> Ordinarily each input has its own settings so correcting the 622 input would not change any other inputs.


Probably, but I don't know how to get to it.  And I didn't have this trouble when my 721 was connected to this TV, nor do I have it with any other devices except the 622. When the 721 was connected, it was centered perfectly. Only when the 622 was set up did the problem surface. Therefore, seems to me that the 622 is the problem, and a way to correct it would be very nice.

I'm very happy with the 622 though, so it's not the end of the world to me if it doesn't get fixed. I just never seem to know the date, so when I move days ahead in the guide, I have to count how many days.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I think I posted in a different thread, but here's my take...

I would like to see a positioning/centering option on the ViP622 like I had for the 6000U. I think that is appropriate to have on the Dish receiver.

I believe overscan, however, should not be an adjustment on the Dish receiver. Overscan adjustment is better served from the HDTV than the receiver.

So I am in both camps here...

Overscan -> HDTV only
Centering/Positioning of image -> Receiver and HDTV


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## paulcdavis (Jan 22, 2004)

paulcdavis said:


> Most display owners don't have the ability (or technical knowledge) to get to the service menu to adjust their display. My Denon (DVI input) is centered on my display, so the problem is on the 622. I'm sure that on the few sets that the 622 was tested with the display was centered. From the HDNET test pattern my 622 is left-4, right-2, top-0, and bottom 2.


Well, I found out that I could adjust vpos and hpos on my Samsung with with different settings for DVI and HDMI.

Now I'm centered for the 622 set at 720p (HDMI) HDNet Test pattern left - 2 right- 2 Top-2 Bottom 2. Sansung HLP5063W. 720 p native mode, expand setting (does not touch 720p signal coming from the 622 or upscaling Denon DVD player.

I verified that the DVI input was centered (tweaked it a bit) with the Avia Disk in wide screen enhanced resolution test pattern.

Entering service mode on the Samsung resets all the user preferences to factory default, so using the Avia disk (and the Star Wars THX video tests) I readjusted the DVI user settings white level, black level, color, etc. I find the color adjustment test on the Star Wars disk easier to use. I use the same user settings for the 622 since the hdnet test pattern is of limited use to adjust color , contrast, and brightness.

Paul


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

Glad you were able to find the adjustment for your different inputs. This is a much better solution than to have the 622 have it added. I would think that the makers of STB's usually don't have vertical or horz adjustments due to the fact that most ppl would adjust them incorrectly. It is much better to do it with the HDTV since every device may display a little differently with different types of playback units.


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## paulcdavis (Jan 22, 2004)

paulcdavis said:


> Well, I found out that I could adjust vpos and hpos on my Samsung with with different settings for DVI and HDMI.
> 
> Now I'm centered for the 622 set at 720p (HDMI) HDNet Test pattern left - 2 right- 2 Top-2 Bottom 2. Sansung HLP5063W. 720 p native mode, expand setting (does not touch 720p signal coming from the 622 or upscaling Denon DVD player.
> 
> ...


Just an interesting note. I found a site with instructions on how to use color bars to adjust a monitor. The Samsung DVI input is connected to my DVD player, so I could use the Avia disk.

The 622 is connected to HDMI input, and I used the article about color bars to set white level, black level, and color. The interesting note was that the settings came out the same for the HDMI 622 input as the DVI DVD player input. (same settings that I had been using before). So at least the DVI output from my Denon upscaling DVD player and the HDMI output from the 622 have the same white level, black level, and color output.

No guarantee that this would be the same with component inputs.

My Samsung 5063W does not allow hue to be adjusted for a DVI or HDMI input. The article is at:

http://www.videouniversity.com/tvbars2.htm

Paul


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Different model TVs work differently apparently.

Toshiba, for instance, had older models where you had to adjust each input type independently! What a pain!

But models like mine... you adjust everything in the highest resolution input, then the TV adjusts for the other inputs and resolutions automatically. Makes things a lot easier than having to tweak each individual port and resolution combination!


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

paulcdavis said:


> Just an interesting note. I found a site with instructions on how to use color bars to adjust a monitor. The Samsung DVI input is connected to my DVD player, so I could use the Avia disk.
> 
> The 622 is connected to HDMI input, and I used the article about color bars to set white level, black level, and color. The interesting note was that the settings came out the same for the HDMI 622 input as the DVI DVD player input. (same settings that I had been using before). So at least the DVI output from my Denon upscaling DVD player and the HDMI output from the 622 have the same white level, black level, and color output.
> 
> ...


Congrats now you have set your monitor to a max of NTSC. Which will give you good 480. What it's gonna look like in HDTV? Sounds like you really need a good I.S.F. calibration. I will cost some $$ though. Here's a link to find someone that can do it. http://www.imagingscience.com/isf-trained.cfm They have specialized equipment to do the job.


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## paulcdavis (Jan 22, 2004)

whatchel1 said:


> Congrats now you have set your monitor to a max of NTSC. Which will give you good 480. What it's gonna look like in HDTV? Sounds like you really need a good I.S.F. calibration. I will cost some $$ though. Here's a link to find someone that can do it. http://www.imagingscience.com/isf-trained.cfm They have specialized equipment to do the job.


I adjusted the set using the 622 set to 720p (which is the native resolution of 5063w) The up-converted output from the Denon DVD player looks better than it should due to the Faroudja chip. 720p from OTA or HBOHD or HDNET programs looks great although there is a little green tint in the white bars Avia Test. Hue is not user adjustable on the 5063W Digital inputs and I'm happy with the color balance from both the Avia disk and the HDNET test pattern.

Paul


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