# Which 522 TV2 output is better?



## LauderDave (Jan 5, 2004)

If I want to get the best possible picture on TV 2, logic tells me the composite output is the way to go instead of the coax out. I would need to go 50 feet or so. Would composite be fine for that distance? Could I easily find those cables that long? Also, I have an S-Video input on TV2. It's been mentioned here before about running S-Video over Cat 5. Is this a viable option? In that scenario, which output would I come from, coax or composite? Also, what apaptors would I need? Thanks in advance for all your help.


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## sathq (Apr 5, 2006)

On high end jobs we will run four coax cables to the TV2 location. One for the TV2 remote antenna and three for the composite jacks. Coax works fine for composite over long distances. Have done over 100 ft with no problems. You must buy coax to composite fittings and a crimper to accomplish this. 

I have never used actual composite cables for this type of distance but it is cheaper than coax (50 ft for $14.76) at monoprice.com.

Never tried S-video for TV2. They have cables up to 100 ft. for under ten bucks. No idea if the signal quality will degrade over that distance. 

If you are willing to experiment and spend $25-30 bucks. Buy the cables and throw them on the floor and see how the PQ is. Sending anything over Cat5 is expensive. If you are willing to invest that kind of money, it would make more sense to get a second DVR.


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## BadFrog (May 31, 2006)

The DVR522 does not have a s-video out for TV2 (I assume you would use s-video to TV1).

IMHO .. the coax cable is the better solution versus regular "composite type long cables". These cables use stranded wire which "really stinks" for long distances over 25 feet (nominally). The coax has a solid copper conductor (wire) and is shielded. Attenuation is about 3db per 1k feet.


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## robert koerner (Aug 20, 2005)

What is it about stranded wire which really stinks?


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## BadFrog (May 31, 2006)

robert koerner said:


> What is it about stranded wire which really stinks?


attenuation, envelope delay (high and low frequencies arriving at different time delays) and typically, non-shielded.


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## robert koerner (Aug 20, 2005)

With the exception of hardline, isn't the shielding on coax stranded?

I'm not familiar with composite cables other than coaxial; not much knowledge about sat TV and video signals.

Why would there be more "smearing" if the center conductor in coaxial cable was changed from solid to stranded if the impudence is the same?

I'm trying to learn more.

Thanks


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## BadFrog (May 31, 2006)

Only the copper core is used for the signal. The stranded wire is just for shielding.


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## BadFrog (May 31, 2006)

Try this URL for diagram 

http://www.ramelectronics.net/download/DW9911.PDF


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## robert koerner (Aug 20, 2005)

I think you will find that the braid (shield) conducts the signal also. Multiple shields are to further reduce interferance-noise.


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## BadFrog (May 31, 2006)

robert koerner said:


> I think you will find that the braid (shield) conducts the signal also. Multiple shields are to further reduce interferance-noise.


Just the copper core transmits the signal ..see below for reference

The *conductor is made of advanced silver-coated copper wire, and has high conductivity, good signal transmission and low loss*. These cables use highly pure 99.997% "OFC" Oxygen free copper. These are true 75 ohm cables Using foamed PE (FOAMED POLYETHYLENE, widely regarded as the superior dialectric material). Distortion arising from unmatched impedances are eliminated using thick, low capacitance, 75 ohm cable. *These cables are double shielded with highly pure OFC braiding with 95% coverage and an additional conductive PVC shield provides 100% coverage.* The adjustable locking connectors--"RCA" plugs employ 24K gold-plated copper to lower contact resistance. 100 MHz frequency bandwidth.
Specifications - Frequency Response (Bandwidth) measurements:


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## robert koerner (Aug 20, 2005)

"The coaxial or concentric line consists of a conductor placed in the center of a tube. The inside surface of the tube and the outside surface of the smaller inner conductor form the two conducting surfaces of the line (transmission line). 

In the coaxial line the fields are entirely inside the tube, because the tubes acts as a shield to prevent them from appearing outside. This reduces the radiation to the vanishing point*."

DC doesn't travel on the surface of a conductor, while AC does. RF is alternating current. 

*page 250, Pratical Line Characteristics, 1966 Radio Amatuer's HandBook


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## BadFrog (May 31, 2006)

Not the same application ..

RF transmission line to an antenna has different physics vs. video transmission between to terminated and balanced connections.

...I have a similar book ..

I am aka: K3QPM (Kilowatt three quebec papa michigan)


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## robert koerner (Aug 20, 2005)

K3QPM, as of 17 July, hasn't been re-issued, or applied for.
K3QPM was not found in the QRZ.com database.
Phonetics for printed communications?


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## BadFrog (May 31, 2006)

robert koerner said:


> K3QPM, as of 17 July, hasn't been re-issued, or applied for.
> K3QPM was not found in the QRZ.com database.
> Phonetics for printed communications?


:grin: It went kah-put probably around 1972'ish. I was last on the air with Guardian Angle Net for maritime voice hops with Atlantic shipping in the northeast USA. Phonetics were very "popular" back then especially with an added twang for personality. I could have "tapped it out" but dots and dashes would really look funny.
_____________________
Retired old fart !


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## LauderDave (Jan 5, 2004)

Thanks for all of your responses. I'm learning a lot, but I still can't decide whether I should use the coax or composite out for TV2. There are a lot of compelling issues here. Incidentally, one of you mentioned monoprice.com. Their prices look fantastic! Has anyone used them and are their cables and adaptors good quality?


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## robert koerner (Aug 20, 2005)

The new entry ticket is a no-code "Tech". Techs can apply for 1x3. If you pass the simple tech test, you can apply for your old call. Tickets are 10 years now.

Any links so I can learn about the differences between video signals and RF signals? Especially why/how the transmission line can be a single conductor?

Try Blue Jean Cables. High quality cables and connectors without any of the double talk, and claims that defy physics.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

robert koerner said:


> Especially why/how the transmission line can be a single conductor?


Perhaps using the shield as a return?

I've been able to carry audio on a single wire without a shield but the equipment is on a common ground, so perhaps the return is already taken care of.


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## BadFrog (May 31, 2006)

robert koerner said:


> Any links so I can learn about the differences between video signals and RF signals? Especially why/how the transmission line can be a single conductor?


May I suggest "subject reading" on manufacturer of video equipment and RF transmitters with antenna properties. Seperate the two as the physics are similar yet vastly different. If you can get ahold of schematics for example: dvd player to TV you'll see that it is essentially modulator to demodulator (really-really over simplified expression). Then look at an RF transmitter schematics from the modulator out and the power amplifier to RF out and input to xmission line (antenna).

Have great fun doing so ! I used to spend hours in "mah-hole-in-dah-wall" (literally under the basement stairs). I have given up DX'ing for baiting a hook and having a beer.:hurah:


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## robert koerner (Aug 20, 2005)

Sounds strange to me. Even antennas, which want the RF to escape, have a "current return path". So, a single wire that RF is sent into, acts as an antenna, and has a "ground" component some where, like the chaise. It radiates because its field isn't contained, or canceled out, as is the case with closely spaced parrel wires.

As far as I know, with coax, the only way to escape a woven wire is to have the braid a solid tube, typically copper--its called hard line.

But, I only know the rudimentary basics of electron flow, and cannot explain the wonderful mystery of why sending electrons through a wire generates a traveling wave that carries information.

The space ship crystal receiver that I had as a child is still as magical to me now as it was when I was 8 or 9 years old.

I've gotten used to radios that do not glow, but still can't get used to a radio that isn't powered by some sort of external electricity.

Falling electrons creating photons, pure, beautiful magic!


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

I'm just glad that RF through coax/cable works. I don't need to know all the mysteries of the universe.


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## BadFrog (May 31, 2006)

James Long said:


> I'm just glad that RF through coax/cable works. I don't need to know all the mysteries of the universe.


AHhhh..the mysteries of the universe :eek2: ....I just had an epiphany .. the "best way" is push the coax off the table and onto the floor..THEN..

Connect a "black box with yellow polkadots" to TV2 out of the DVR and connect a "yellow box with black polkadots" to TV#2 and run fiber optic cable between the polkadotted boxes. Then we can ponder RF via light waves :lol:

This has been fun .. see you guys in another post


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## BadFrog (May 31, 2006)

LauderDave said:


> Thanks for all of your responses. I'm learning a lot, but I still can't decide whether I should use the coax or composite out for TV2. There are a lot of compelling issues here. Incidentally, one of you mentioned monoprice.com. Their prices look fantastic! Has anyone used them and are their cables and adaptors good quality?


:grin: Did we ever answer (help) LauderDave and his question ? IMHO I would visit radioshack and try the coax connection.


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## Jammasterd (Jul 6, 2006)

LauderDave said:


> Thanks for all of your responses. I'm learning a lot, but I still can't decide whether I should use the coax or composite out for TV2. There are a lot of compelling issues here. Incidentally, one of you mentioned monoprice.com. Their prices look fantastic! Has anyone used them and are their cables and adaptors good quality?


Hi, I'm using CAT5e cable to connect Dish DVR-625 TV2 to a Sony tv (about 45ft. away), via "Leviton's RCA-110 QuickPort Connector"-Red White Yellow-composite. (Bought CAT5e cable and Quickport supplies at Home Depot)
http://www.levitonvoicedata.com/catalog/BuildPage.aspx?buildPageID=3374
Leviton also carries S-video QuickPort connections.
http://www.levitonvoicedata.com/catalog/BuildPage.aspx?buildPageID=3375


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## BadFrog (May 31, 2006)

Jammasterd said:


> Hi, I'm using CAT5e cable to connect Dish DVR-625 TV2 to a Sony tv (about 45ft. away), via "Leviton's RCA-110 QuickPort Connector"-Red White Yellow-composite. (Bought CAT5e cable and Quickport supplies at Home Depot)
> http://www.levitonvoicedata.com/catalog/BuildPage.aspx?buildPageID=3374
> Leviton also carries S-video QuickPort connections.
> http://www.levitonvoicedata.com/catalog/BuildPage.aspx?buildPageID=3375


:grin: How Frack'in Cool:grin:

I went to Leviton site ! 
I am going to read all I can about this Cat-5 stuff and the fiber as well. When I upgrade to Sat HD I am going to rewire my whole house (three HD TV's ready).

I think i'll explore DVI switch boxes as well. I have a Denon 2910 DVD w/DVI out.

This stuff seems real easy to understand and it's off the shelf too...

Thanks for the info ..!


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