# Dish Letter: Upgrade Receiver (721 etc)



## Presence (Mar 14, 2004)

I received a letter today from Dish telling me I need to upgrade my receiver to continue to enjoy Dish programming. Of course, it does not say which receiver. I have two 622s and a 721. I assume they are going for the 721, but why? It's not like it gets HD already, and as far as I know there's no imminent move to make all programming MPEG-4 yet.


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## garys (Nov 4, 2005)

Dish is upgrading the 721 receivers for 522's due to the tivo injunction.


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

The 721 is one of the "infringing" DVR models that may be shut off due to the TiVO patent case.

I had a 921 (actually 10 different ones), then a 942 (briefly). Finally a 622 showed up on my doorstep! Both the 921 & 942 are also on the infringing list. My guess is that everyone with an older HD DVR will eventualy get a 622 just to get the infringing units "off the street". 

BTW: They waived the "HD Enabling Fee" for me (I got the 921 to "future-proof" my E* system :lol: :rolling: ). I still don't have an HDTV but the 622 does everything (and more) that the 921 was supposed to do (like Dish Home). I love the split screen PIP in single mode. It's a great way to watch 2 sporting events at the same time. I can also delay the start of the news until the baseball game ends by having the 2nd tuner tuned to the news while watching the end of the game on the first tuner.


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## BigDon (Oct 30, 2004)

I got the same letter. I have a 508, a 2700, and a 7100. 

I thought the 7100 was ok and that the 508's software update put it in the clear.

I called Dish up. He wanted to swap my 7100 out for a 508 or 501 at no charge and no contract. Told him I'd 
think about it. It would be hard to go from the 90-100 hours available (120 gb upgrade hard drive) on the 7100 to 35 to 60 hours on the 501 or 508 respectively. 

But at least the 508 would have Name Based Recording and would map the Local channels down to their two digit numbers instead of to only a 7XXX number. He couldn't guarantee me a 508.


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## jclewter79 (Jan 8, 2008)

I would hit them up for a 625, it could not hurt to ask.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

They may be having issues making the new smartcards work on the oldest receivers. I'm surprised the old receivers work as well as they do considering the differences between the network at the time they were introduced and now.


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## finniganps (Jan 23, 2004)

I have a 508 and 721 - I haven't received a letter yet. I currently own both receivers and do not get charged any DVR monthly fees. I believe they would want to charge me a fee with the 522. When it is swapped out, I would guess I would NOT own this new receiver - would the new receiver have a lease or DVR fee attached to it - those are some of the questions I will ask if I get this letter.


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## euro_boy (Jun 20, 2005)

I got the same letter. I have 722, 501 and 7200 and assume they want to swap the original DishPlayer for something else.


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## dalehileman (Jan 2, 2008)

I see that I shall eventually have to upgrade my Dish receiver . I suppose it's a blessing in disguise as I am one of the few remaining owners of a Model 4900 but there are so many styles that the average clod (me) will be at an impasse. It’s as if gasoline were discontinued and then you have to choose among LNG, diesel, ethylene, hybrid, electric, hydrogen, compressed air, etc etc etc, or maybe peddles

Will I have to pay for my new set

...and if so doesn't Dish realize how many of us disgruntled users will instead switch to DirecTV


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## boba (May 23, 2003)

dalehileman said:


> I see that I shall eventually have to upgrade my Dish receiver . I suppose it's a blessing in disguise as I am one of the few remaining owners of a Model 4900 but there are so many styles that the average clod (me) will be at an impasse. It's as if gasoline were discontinued and then you have to choose among LNG, diesel, ethylene, hybrid, electric, hydrogen, compressed air, etc etc etc, or maybe peddles
> 
> Will I have to pay for my new set
> 
> ...and if so doesn't Dish realize how many of us disgruntled users will instead switch to DirecTV


By your statement your wife is quite happy with her DVR and won't switch to Directv so why don't you stop complaining about equipment getting older. Do a dishing it up and get a newer receiver such as a 311 to replace your antique 4900.


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## dalehileman (Jan 2, 2008)

boba: 'cause I'm a cheapskate


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## JohnMI (Apr 2, 2002)

We got a letter in the mail today from Dish saying that "due to upgrades in our system's technology and services, it is necessary to upgrade one or more of your older model receivers at no charge to you so you can continue to receive your programming." Then just a number to call. (I only have a 721 and a 301.)

I called and they said that the 721 has been discontinued (obviously -- quite a while ago, actually) and that they were going to replace it with a 625 at no charge. I then asked if I would be charged a monthly lease or DVR fee -- and she replied that, yes, there would be the monthly $5.98 fee because it was a leased receiver.

I complained that that didn't sound "free" to me -- and told her that I bought the 721 specifically because it did not have any extra monthly fees for things like DVR service. She started to say that there was nothing she could do, then stopped, asked me to hold, and then said that she had not fully read the 721 upgrade information and that they are waiving all of the lease/DVR fees.

I then asked, to be sure, "So there will be absolutely no change to the amount of my monthly bill, I will receive a 625 to use as long as I'd like, and I get to keep my 721, correct?" She confirmed that was the case. She said that, if I wanted, I could turn in the 721 for a $10 (yes $TEN, not $100) credit. I passed on that.

In any case -- just want to see if other people are hearing the same thing and that all sounds legit? I know that, a couple of months ago, the 721 was having some trouble now and then due to some stream change or something -- and some people that emailed CEO were told that they could move to a 625 with no monthly fees. I emailed too, but never got any answer back -- then the problems seem to go away, so I didn't worry about it. Looks like, hopefully, this deal has come back for everyone with a 721. I think I'm fine with it as long as it actually goes as indicated.

- John...


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

I was in a similar situation with a 921. They gave me a 622. They waived the HD enabling fee. I was already paying the DVR fee until I switched to DVR Advantage which saved me the DVR fee and the Feb. '08 price increase on Top-200. All I had to do was add my locals which I did not need with the 921 since I got all my locals OTA on the 921's tuner. For only $1.01 more than what I was paying before the Feb.'08 increase w/o locals I had my locals and an HD DVR. 

Bottom line I get Top-200 w/locals and a DVR for $49.95 + tax! And now I also get the HD locals (which look great - as good as the OTA, and much better than the overcompresed SD locals) and my RSN's in HD (games only from 2 + 24 hr Big 10 Network). I don't even have an HDTV yet but I'm ready!

Don't let them stick you with any fees! The real reason for the 721 shut-down is the TiVO case, not the MPEG-4 implementation. There is nothing SD in MPEG-4 anyway (yet). That may change but not until they swap out all the 301's 4900's 4700's etc. that are still out there. None of those were DVR's, it's only the "infringing" DVR models that are being shut off: 721, 921, 942 and maybe a coulple others.


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## kb9lfr (Sep 11, 2008)

I only have 1 dish receiver...a 7200 and I got the letter.
Will my 7200 stop running at some point? If so, when?
They want to give me a 311 in exchange....which isn't acceptable since it isn't a dvr..I also need no dvr fee and at least 7 days program guide.
What should I do to get the best deal?
thanks.


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## boba (May 23, 2003)

jgoggan said:


> We got a letter in the mail today from Dish saying that "due to upgrades in our system's technology and services, it is necessary to upgrade one or more of your older model receivers at no charge to you so you can continue to receive your programming." Then just a number to call. (I only have a 721 and a 301.)
> 
> I called and they said that the 721 has been discontinued (obviously -- quite a while ago, actually) and that they were going to replace it with a 625 at no charge. I then asked if I would be charged a monthly lease or DVR fee -- and she replied that, yes, there would be the monthly $5.98 fee because it was a leased receiver.
> 
> ...


If they pay shipping you might want to reconsider the $10 for the 721, it won't have much use after they kill them.


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## kstuart (Apr 25, 2002)

It seems that the receivers in question (7100/7200, 721, 921, 942) are not being upgraded to use the new smart cards.

Someone reported hearing that the tentative deadline is November 1st, although such dates have slipped in the past.

It would not surprise me if there are also other models (old non-DVRs) that only start being dealt with after November 1st.


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## JohnMI (Apr 2, 2002)

boba said:


> If they pay shipping you might want to reconsider the $10 for the 721, it won't have much use after they kill them.


It is worth the $10 to me just to have time to watch everything that I've got DVR'ed on the thing. I won't have it all watched within the timeframe. 

- John...


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## sulu600 (Apr 15, 2003)

I have an old 5000 that I use in my RV and a 721. I received the letter today and was very surprised to find it was the 721 being replaced with a 625. I was told it was because of the "Smart Card" issue, but the TiVo case make's more since. Can someone who has a 625 tell me if the OTA tuner in the 625 is ATSC or just analog and be totally useless next Feb.?

Steve


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

There is no ATSC tuner in a 625 - 2 SD DBS tuners is it. You can use it in Single or Dual mode.


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## sulu600 (Apr 15, 2003)

scooper said:


> There is no ATSC tuner in a 625 - 2 SD DBS tuners is it. You can use it in Single or Dual mode.


So what is the TV Antenna/Cable In F-Connector on the rear panel for? On my 721 and 5000 it received/tunes OTA channel's from antenna. The way they have been hyping the DTV conversion on every channel, would have thought they put a DTV(ATSC) tuner in these receivers with OTA tuners. So I guess I can use one of my DTV boxes on it....

Steve


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## kstuart (Apr 25, 2002)

sulu600 said:


> I was told it was because of the "Smart Card" issue, but the TiVo case make's more since.


The replacement letter was also sent to owners of 7100/7200 DVRs which are exempt from the TiVo case, so that is not the deciding factor.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

sulu600 said:


> So what is the TV Antenna/Cable In F-Connector on the rear panel for? On my 721 and 5000 it received/tunes OTA channel's from antenna. The way they have been hyping the DTV conversion on every channel, would have thought they put a DTV(ATSC) tuner in these receivers with OTA tuners. So I guess I can use one of my DTV boxes on it....
> 
> Steve


It's a passthrough only. There is absolutely NO OTA tuner of any kind in a 625 - trust me - I have one. I don't think your 721 has one either. The 5000 DID have an analog tuner.


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## BNUMM (Dec 24, 2006)

scooper said:


> It's a passthrough only. There is absolutely NO OTA tuner of any kind in a 625 - trust me - I have one. I don't think your 721 has one either. The 5000 DID have an analog tuner.


You are correct. I have a 721 and it has no OTA tuner.


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## mkovacs (Nov 26, 2002)

I also received the same letter, called dish and they offered the 522 as the free replacement. Decided to ask about upgrade to HD and was told it would cost me $100 for the upgrade to HD and the HD programming (gold level) would cost $10 per month for a two year contract. Hemmed and hawed and then decided to go for the upgrade. Then was told that since I was a long time customer (11 years) the installation would only cost me $50 and the DVR fee was waived. I have a TV that is HD ready so now looking forward to getting the new receiver (622) (my 721 is getting very old and finiky). Installation scheduled for 13 Sept (Saturday).
BTW, when I asked when my service would be discontinued I was to 17 Sept!!!! so not much time to think about the upgrade.



BigDon said:


> I got the same letter. I have a 508, a 2700, and a 7100. Not sure which one they want to replace.
> 
> I thought the 7100 was ok and that the 508's software update put it in the clear.
> 
> ...


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## JohnMI (Apr 2, 2002)

mkovacs said:


> I also received the same letter, called dish and they offered the 522 as the free replacement. Decided to ask about upgrade to HD and was told it would cost me $100 for the upgrade to HD and the HD programming (gold level) would cost $10 per month for a two year contract. Hemmed and hawed and then decided to go for the upgrade. Then was told that since I was a long time customer (11 years) the installation would only cost me $50 and the DVR fee was waived. I have a TV that is HD ready so now looking forward to getting the new receiver (622) (my 721 is getting very old and finiky). Installation scheduled for 13 Sept (Saturday).


I wonder why some people with 721s are being offered the 522 and others are being offered the 625?

Also -- what plan did you have before? I just have the Top-100 plan, but am in the same situation as you (wouldn't be going to an HD package). If I could end up with a 622 and HD for only $150 plus the extra $10/month, I might be interested.

Also -- did they give you the option of installing yourself and save the $50? They did that for me when they offered the 625.

- John...


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## JohnMI (Apr 2, 2002)

Does anyone have the phone number in the letter handy? I left it at home and want to call them again. Thanks.

- John...


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## JohnMI (Apr 2, 2002)

Nevermind! Called the normal number and just got this taken care of!

I took the 625 deal yesterday, but they are going to send me the 722 and HD Gold package instead. Charged me $125 for the 722 (I could have had the 622 for $100, but took the 722 for the extra $25). Monthly fee will increase by $10 for the HD Gold package. All lease/DVR fees waived. (So, currently, I pay $37.99 for the Top-100 with my 721 and I will be paying $47.99 for the Top-100 with HD Gold with a 722.)

I need a Dish1000 installed, I guess -- and they said that all of the install was included. Couldn't get it scheduled until the first week of October though. I'll use the 625 until then (he said it had already shipped, so just use it until the 722 install).

Sweet!

EDIT: Actually, is what he told me even possible? I only have the Top-100 package, so I assume that, for my $10/month, I'll get the HD BRONZE channels, right? Not the HD GOLD channels since they only come with the Top-250, correct? It doesn't look like it is possible to have Top-100 and get the HD GOLD. I'm fine with that -- probably more of a mis-speak than anything else.

- John...


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## euro_boy (Jun 20, 2005)

What I understood from previous posts, is that 721 owners are getting offered 522/625 with a possibility to upgrade to a higher end reciver (622/722) at a discounted price.

Does anyone know what do they offer to 7100/7200 owners?
Thanks,


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

jgoggan said:


> I wonder why some people with 721s are being offered the 522 and others are being offered the 625?


Officially, 721s are to be replaced with 522s. But... Dish considers 522s and 625s to be functionally identical. The only difference is the hard drive size anyway.

Plus, 625 and 522s have been in very short supply for several months, and we never know what we'll get when we order 625s. Usually we get refurb 522s or refurb 625s; occasionally we get new ones.

I've been told that several of the factories that used to make 625s are now making other receivers, which is why 625s are so hard to get. I have no way to verify if that's true (there certainly could be other reasons), but it does make sense, especially with Eastern Arc rolling out and an overall need for more MPEG4/HD receivers.


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## JohnMI (Apr 2, 2002)

So -- with my 722 coming and a Dish1000 install -- does that mean that it will be a 2-dish setup for HD? It looks like the 1000 is for 3 birds -- plus I'll also need 61.5 for my HD locals. So, does that mean I'll have 2 dishes? I currently have a SuperDish that brings in my locals from 121.

- John...


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

You don't need a Dish 1000 if you have HD Locals on 61.5 ... You will need a Dish 500 and a wing dish.

Local installers hopefully will know better and bring the right stuff.


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## JohnMI (Apr 2, 2002)

Weird. I just checked and it says that all of my SD locals are actually on 110. (I had the SuperDish installed because they were on 121.) Is it possible that they were moved? If so, do I have ANY need for 121 any more?

In any case, the two HD channels for my DMA say that they are on 61.5.

In either case -- looks like I will have 2 dishes then when the HD is installed? Do they mount to the same pole or will they be adding yet another pole to my yard? I think that they charge me if they add another pole, right? That would suck.

- John...


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## mkovacs (Nov 26, 2002)

jgoggan said:


> I wonder why some people with 721s are being offered the 522 and others are being offered the 625?
> 
> Also -- what plan did you have before? I just have the Top-100 plan, but am in the same situation as you (wouldn't be going to an HD package). If I could end up with a 622 and HD for only $150 plus the extra $10/month, I might be interested.
> 
> ...


I had the Top 150 plan. Not sure why I was selected. My brother has a 721 and so far they have not
contacted him for the replacement (he received no letter). Well as I said in original post they first said
it would cost me $100 to install the HD receiver (and new dish) but when I asked for the upgrade it dropped to $50 and the DVR fee was waived. I did not want to do a self install because I will need an additional dish to get the HD channels and did not want to try this my self. I will keep the 721
I was offered $10 for it but we still have some recorded programs to watch which I will be able to
do even if it not connected to a dish. Well call dish and ask. $50 seemed a reasonable fee. The
tech will also install the receiver.

Marty


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## kb9lfr (Sep 11, 2008)

I was told that 7200 people will get a 311...which isn't right at all since a 311 isn't a dvr box. I've been trying to gather more info on my options before I call them back and bargain.


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## pjmrt (Jul 17, 2003)

Same here, only its my ancient 7200 (which still works). Overall I can't complain as they are swapping it for a 625 - at no extra cost to me, including the install. But then I have been with Dish for several years so they (said) they were taking that into account. Still, the 7200 is working - but apparently they are getting ready to pull the plug on all the old gear. BTW - I thought the 7200 was not part of the TiVo lawsuit offending gear, too early?


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## pjmrt (Jul 17, 2003)

kb9lfr said:


> I was told that 7200 people will get a 311...which isn't right at all since a 311 isn't a dvr box. I've been trying to gather more info on my options before I call them back and bargain.


didn't see your post. I explained to the customer rep what the 7200 was and they swapped it for a modern DVR model.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

pjmrt said:


> Still, the 7200 is working - but apparently they are getting ready to pull the plug on all the old gear. BTW - I thought the 7200 was not part of the TiVo lawsuit offending gear, too early?


It should be a smartcard issue (3G coming soon and already in some homes).


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## neljtorres (Jul 15, 2004)

I got the same letter today, and I was surprised because when I called the told me since I am in Puerto Rico I have to go to a retailer and buy a new receiver. That's a bull I have been with dish since 1999 and the CSR treat me if I was worth crap and I said hell no! I ask for a supervisor and he could not help either!. I am so mad! Well I am going to have and keep on watching the 721 and when it dies, I don't know what I am going to do!:nono2:


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## kb9lfr (Sep 11, 2008)

So you were able to get a 625 at no cost to replace your 7200?
Any pvr fees?
Any lease charges?
We have AT250 and Locals and have been with dish for about 7 years...I wonder if we could get the same deal.
Does the 625 have anything to do with HD?


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## kstuart (Apr 25, 2002)

kb9lfr said:


> So you were able to get a 625 at no cost to replace your 7200?
> Any pvr fees?
> Any lease charges?
> We have AT250 and Locals and have been with dish for about 7 years...I wonder if we could get the same deal.
> Does the 625 have anything to do with HD?


You should be able to get that deal.

There is no difference between 522 and 625 other than drive size, and orders for one often end up with the other one being delivered.

They do *not * have anything to do with HD.


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## jclewter79 (Jan 8, 2008)

With dvr advantage, basically anybody can get the DVR fee waived as it makes your AT package with locals cost the same as you AT package plus locals and DVR fee. At least until next February.


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## JohnMI (Apr 2, 2002)

jclewter79 said:


> With dvr advantage, basically anybody can get the DVR fee waived as it makes your AT package with locals cost the same as you AT package plus locals and DVR fee. At least until next February.


This appears to be incorrect. When I did this deal, he started to add DVR Advantage to my account and it INCREASED my monthly fee. So he removed it and said that, because of the fee(s) being waived for having a 721, it was cheaper without DVR Advantage.

Just to confirm this, I just went to Dish Network and did the wizard as a new customer for exactly what I will have (Top-100, HD Bronze, 722) for $47.99/month (I currently pay $37.99/month for Top-100 with locals with my 721 and it will be $10 more after my swap to the 721 for the HD Bronze). The wizard's calculation, even after doing the DVR Advantage, came to $49.99.

The wizard calculated, before I added the DVR, that the programming would cost me $32.99 for Top-100 plus $5 for locals plus $10 for HD Bronze -- for a total of $47.99. Then it added another $4.60 for the DVR fee after I put that in. That would be $52.59. Then it said that that qualifies for the DVR Advantage, made that change, and adjusted the monthly fee to $49.99 total.

So, sure, what I am getting in the end is only $2/month less with their fee waiving (so I'm not REALLY getting the full fees waived) -- but it is still incorrect to say that anyone can get the same fees waived by going to DVR Advantage. Those of us with 721s going to 722s are getting it for $2/month less than what "anyone" doing the DVR Advantage thing would be getting, I believe.

- John...


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## CABill (Mar 20, 2005)

jgoggan said:


> This appears to be incorrect.
> ...
> Those of us with 721s going to 722s are getting it for $2/month less than what "anyone" doing the DVR Advantage thing would be getting, I believe.
> 
> - John...


Repeat your steps if you are anything above AT100 (where DishDVR Advantage saves only $3.98) and you'll see what jclewter79 was saying. He should have said any AT package except AT100, but nobody can include all the "excepts" in a brief post. DISH has quite a few "excepts".


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## JohnMI (Apr 2, 2002)

Interesting. I likely should have upgraded from my 721 long ago then. I had been avoiding it because I didn't want to start paying a "DVR" fee that I think is lame. Had I known that I could have done it with either just a $2/month increase or none at all if I was Top-150, I likely would have done it long ago. Oh well...

- John...


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## kstuart (Apr 25, 2002)

DVR Advantage only waives *one* DVR fee.

I have two DVRs, one is a 721 and the other would have a fee where it not for DVR Advantage.

So, the 721 replacement program including a waiver of the DVR fee for the 522/625 replacement is certainly a help for me.

Only the "America's Everything Package" waives DVR fees for all the DVRs on an account - which is why most people with 4 or 5 DVRs have that package.


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

jgoggan said:


> Weird. I just checked and it says that all of my SD locals are actually on 110. (I had the SuperDish installed because they were on 121.) Is it possible that they were moved? If so, do I have ANY need for 121 any more?


No one needs 121 anymore; there hasn't been any (non-commercial) content on it for almost a year. Yes, your locals were moved to 110 at some point. The Superdish is obsolete.



> In any case, the two HD channels for my DMA say that they are on 61.5.
> 
> In either case -- looks like I will have 2 dishes then when the HD is installed? Do they mount to the same pole or will they be adding yet another pole to my yard? I think that they charge me if they add another pole, right? That would suck.


If you need 61.5, then you will need two Dish 500 dishes, one pointing at 119/110 and one in "wing" configuration pointing at 61.5.

If your existing pole is a 2" or 2 3/8" (Superdishes came in both sizes), then it will need to be replaced or adapted to allow a 1 5/8" dish to fit on it, and, yes, you'd need a second one for the wing dish.


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## pjmrt (Jul 17, 2003)

kb9lfr said:


> So you were able to get a 625 at no cost to replace your 7200?
> Any pvr fees?
> Any lease charges?
> We have AT250 and Locals and have been with dish for about 7 years...I wonder if we could get the same deal.
> Does the 625 have anything to do with HD?


Maybe, its worth a try. I've been with them about the same and that's my package. I have a DVR fee waiver on my 7200 (part of the deal when I originally bought it, temporarily lost it, then got it back when I contacted [email protected]). My other DVR was a 721 which died and was replaced w/ a 522 no charge and no DVR fees. On the phone anyway, the deal is no lease charges, no DVR fees, just pay what I'm paying now. The only catch is that the 625 is officially leased, I won't own it like I do my 7200 and 522. But neither do I have to return the 7200. Not sure what I will do with it though, as it will shortly be a paperweight. I would get a modest credit on my bill if I return it (I think it was $20). I thought about eBaying it, but it would be useless as a functional reciever - only good as a collector's item. Which is the one reason I have to hang on to it - the first DVR reciever and the only (so far as I know) reciever w/ webTV.


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## JohnMI (Apr 2, 2002)

IIP said:


> If you need 61.5, then you will need two Dish 500 dishes, one pointing at 119/110 and one in "wing" configuration pointing at 61.5.
> 
> If your existing pole is a 2" or 2 3/8" (Superdishes came in both sizes), then it will need to be replaced or adapted to allow a 1 5/8" dish to fit on it, and, yes, you'd need a second one for the wing dish.


Ok -- thanks for the info. So, now I'm curious if my "free install" is going to include that second pole (and replacement of my existing pole). Last time I had a "free install", the installer got here and told me that I had to pay because it was on a pole and not on the roof. Now I'm afraid he's going to show up and tell me that I have to not only pay -- but pay for TWO poles... Hmmm...

Anyone know the official word on this sort of thing?

- John...


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## BNUMM (Dec 24, 2006)

It is "Free Basic Installation" which does not include pole mounts.


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## AppliedAggression (Aug 16, 2003)

I have a 721 as well.
Will the 522 or 625 I receive be owned by me, or is it leased from them for free?


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## kstuart (Apr 25, 2002)

*Applied* - leased for free.

*jgoggan* - There is no good reason to replace a Superdish with a Dish 500, except for cosmetic appearance. Superdish should supply as good or better signal for 110 and 119. All that really needs to be done is install the 61.5 wing dish and hook them all up to the appropriate switch (might even be done by unplugging 121 on your existing switch and pluggin in 61.5).


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

AppliedAggression said:


> I have a 721 as well.
> Will the 522 or 625 I receive be owned by me, or is it leased from them for free?


Leased, but no additional fees.


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## DaGnome (Mar 17, 2005)

Hmm I wonder what they are doing for people in my situation:

I own a 721, bought for the same reasons as everyone else.. no DVR fee. 
I recently upgraded to a 722 for the HD, and put the 721 in the closet to be reactivated later , as a backup or if I ever decide to hook up a 2nd room.

I've received no letter, and at the time i upgraded (In Feb), there was no TIVO judgement yet. 

Will i have issues activating this in the future? Or should I just call now to see if they will upgrade it? (I doubt it since it won't be activated). Or am I just SoL in that their legal issues forced me out of a product I legitimately paid for?


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## jclewter79 (Jan 8, 2008)

DaGnome said:


> Hmm I wonder what they are doing for people in my situation:
> 
> I own a 721, bought for the same reasons as everyone else.. no DVR fee.
> I recently upgraded to a 722 for the HD, and put the 721 in the closet to be reactivated later , as a backup or if I ever decide to hook up a 2nd room.
> ...


Probably be best to reactivate that thing if they let you if you want the upgraded one. One thing about it though, if they do replace it with a leased receiver, they will want it to stay activated or it will have to be sent back.


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## euro_boy (Jun 20, 2005)

pjmrt said:


> Same here, only its my ancient 7200 (which still works). Overall I can't complain as they are swapping it for a 625 - at no extra cost to me, including the install. But then I have been with Dish for several years so they (said) they were taking that into account. Still, the 7200 is working - but apparently they are getting ready to pull the plug on all the old gear. BTW - I thought the 7200 was not part of the TiVo lawsuit offending gear, too early?


Wow, 625 (or 522 for that matter) would be great replacement for 7200. I will have to call them soon and see if they will offer me that as well. I have been with Dish since 1997.


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## kb9lfr (Sep 11, 2008)

Just got off the phone with dish..they say that november sometime is when the 7200 will start losing channels.

I was not getting far with trying to get a 625 upgrade with no fees for my 7200 until I asked for customer retention. I've been a customer for 8 years...all is taken care of.
625 installed at no cost...dvr advantage to cover fees (my monthly bill stays the same) (they will be renewing dvr advantage in all likelyhood).


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## Kevin_F (Apr 22, 2002)

My inlaws (Los Angeles area) just had their 5000 with Dolby Adapter replaced by a DISH 381 unit under this program. I never heard of the 381 model, so I was worried about what they were being given. I wanted to make sure that they were given an equivalent receiver to what is being replaced. They are opting for the $10 back for taking away the receiver. Unlike the 311 and 322, the 381 supports Dolby optical output.


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## BNUMM (Dec 24, 2006)

I believe the 381 is for multiple dwelling units.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

The 381 is a relabled 811 ... generally used in the MDU market now but consider it a good replacement for the 5000 (unless you want satellite HD ... then you need a ViP receiver such as the 211 - the 811 will not decode the new MPEG4 channels).


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

James Long said:


> The 381 is a relabled 811.


And some things to be aware of:

- It does NOT have a coax output.
- It has an ATSC tuner, so it can pick up digital OTA signals, including HD where available.
- It comes with an RF remote.
- It supports HD resolutions up to 1080i via DVI or component.
- It does not have an HDMI output.
- It only decodes MPEG2, so it can not be used for satellite HD, which is now MPEG4 only.
- It has an optical audio output for Dolby Digital.


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## gregc5985 (Jul 3, 2006)

I got my Urgent Action Required letter today. I currently have a leased VIP622 and an owned DVR721. My understanding is that Dish will replace my DVR721 with a leased DVR522 but waive the lease and DVR fees. Is that correct?

It would probably make more sense for me to replace the 721 with another HD DVR. (I am currently subscribed to DishDVR Advantage and dishHD.) Does anyone know if I would have to pay monthly lease and DVR fees on the new receiver if I do the VIP upgrade instead of the simple swap to a DVR522?


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## finniganps (Jan 23, 2004)

I currently have a 508 and 721 and got the letter today. I looked online and they said I could get the 722 installed for $200, 622 for $150 installed. CSR said they couldn't go any lower and that I couldn't install it myself. On the plus side, they're coming this Friday (they could have come as early as Wednesday). Not as good a deal as initial poster, but I'm ok with it. I will need to pay $10/mo. extra, no DVR fees, but did have to agree to a new 2 year commitment. I'll drop the 508 after the install, than my monthly cost will only increase $5/month since I won't have the extra receiver fee. Right now I pay $42.99 ($37.99 plus $5 extra receiver fee). Initial increase will go to $52.99, once I drop the 508 it will drop $5.


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## Tron (Mar 29, 2003)

pjmrt said:


> Maybe, its worth a try. I've been with them about the same and that's my package. I have a DVR fee waiver on my 7200 (part of the deal when I originally bought it, temporarily lost it, then got it back when I contacted [email protected]). My other DVR was a 721 which died and was replaced w/ a 522 no charge and no DVR fees. On the phone anyway, the deal is no lease charges, no DVR fees, just pay what I'm paying now. The only catch is that the 625 is officially leased, I won't own it like I do my 7200 and 522. But neither do I have to return the 7200. Not sure what I will do with it though, as it will shortly be a paperweight. I would get a modest credit on my bill if I return it (I think it was $20). I thought about eBaying it, but it would be useless as a functional reciever - only good as a collector's item. Which is the one reason I have to hang on to it - the first DVR reciever and the only (so far as I know) reciever w/ webTV.


Did you have to agree to any 12/24 month commitment? What about the phone line fee? I've been with dish since 2000 and have 2 7200s and 2 721s and have never been hooked up to a phone (would be a major pain). Also, it seems the 625 has some kind of funky wireless ability to display the second tuner on another TV? (And the 522 doesn't?) If so, I wonder if I can get rid of at least 1 receiver on the account. Finally, I wonder if it's best to call afterhours or during 'peak' hours to get a nice CSR??


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## kb9lfr (Sep 11, 2008)

In my case, I told them it would be too hard to install a phone line, and I got a phone line waiver (but if I ever hook up a phone line to my new 625, I must keep it connected always).
As to getting a nice csr, you can always ask to be put through to someone in the customer retention department. Once I was switched over, the new person was much more helpful.
Waiver for phone line, no install cost, no 24-month committment and no charge to go from a 7200 w/1 tuner to a 625 with 2-tuners.
My monthly cost will remain the same.


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## veith (Jul 31, 2003)

I received the letter last week, called 9-11, talked to Bethany and was assured there would be no lease or dvr fees for the foreseeable future. The 625 was installed 9-13.

Today, 9-16, I saw a lease charge on my bill online. I called and talked to Angel who insisted the lease fee applied in spite of my explanation of the forced dish initiated upgrade. She finally waived lease fees for one year only.

I just wrote to [email protected] and am awaiting a resolution.

Anyone else have this problem? Is there a better way or any tips on how to get this resolved?


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

The "lease fee" is the same thing as an "additional receiver fee" that you are paying for your owned 721. When a receiver is leased instead of owned, that fee is just called a "lease fee" instead. You have to pay for mirrored programming for additional receivers regardless of owned vs. leased.


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## neljtorres (Jul 15, 2004)

neljtorres said:


> I got the same letter today, and I was surprised because when I called the told me since I am in Puerto Rico I have to go to a retailer and buy a new receiver. That's a bull I have been with dish since 1999 and the CSR treat me if I was worth crap and I said hell no! I ask for a supervisor and he could not help either!. I am so mad! Well I am going to have and keep on watching the 721 and when it dies, I don't know what I am going to do!:nono2:


Today finally, I got a call from Dish today and they are going to change my 721 for a 522. Well at least I got something out of nothing!


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## makman (Dec 2, 2002)

Has anyone got a 722 in exchange for their 721 without any charge or new monthly fees? I don't have an HDTV but hope to get one someday.

Mitch


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## finniganps (Jan 23, 2004)

makman said:


> Has anyone got a 722 in exchange for their 721 without any charge or new monthly fees? I don't have an HDTV but hope to get one someday.
> Mitch


No, they are charging me $200 installed (they wouldn't let me do it myself). I could get it free if I would take the 522. I know I want HD soon, so now is as good a time as any. The 622 has a lot less space and was only $50 cheaper, so I went with the 722. The CSR wouldn't even offer the HD DVR's until I said I wanted HD. Monthly fee will always go up for the HD service. I am NOT being charged a DVR fee. I am keeping the 508 for now and was told several times my bill will increase $10/mo. for the HD service.


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## finniganps (Jan 23, 2004)

I am planning on buying the HD set before Friday when the tech will come to do the install. When you move from a 721 to a 722 installed, will the tech bring all necessary cables including HDMI, or will they expect me to have those?


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## jclewter79 (Jan 8, 2008)

finniganps said:


> I am planning on buying the HD set before Friday when the tech will come to do the install. When you move from a 721 to a 722 installed, will the tech bring all necessary cables including HDMI, or will they expect me to have those?


Usally they will bring the component cables you have to provide HDMI if you want it.


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## kstuart (Apr 25, 2002)

jclewter79 said:


> Usally they will bring the component cables you have to provide HDMI if you want it.


http://www.monoprice.com for excellent HDMI cables for very little $$, shipped quickly.

PS Some installers may provide an HDMI cable... some can bill it to E*.


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## shadough (Dec 31, 2006)

What exactly are the differences between the 522 and the 625? I dont see the 522 even available to purchase anywhere. From what I can tell:

- both have a 120gb hard drive w/ 100 hrs of recording
- both have 2 tuners w/ a PIP option.
- I'm guessing both have a 9 day program guide??
- both are PocketDish compatible
- both have UHF remotes
- both have mult-room viewing options

So what is the real difference?

Do they include the DPP separator in the box?


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

The only difference is HD size.


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## shadough (Dec 31, 2006)

scooper said:


> The only difference is HD size.


Well the 2 _brochures_ I'm looking at say BOTH are 120 gig drives
http://www.dbsinstall.com/Dish_network/Receivers/Dish_Network_522_Receiver.asp
http://www.solidsignal.tv/prod_display.asp?PROD=DVR625&xzoom=Large-1#xview

Can I assume these receivers are backwards compatible? Compatible w/ Legacy hardware anotherwords.


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## veith (Jul 31, 2003)

IIP said:


> The "lease fee" is the same thing as an "additional receiver fee" that you are paying for your owned 721. When a receiver is leased instead of owned, that fee is just called a "lease fee" instead. You have to pay for mirrored programming for additional receivers regardless of owned vs. leased.


But I gave up my 721 to them for the $10 credit. I had only one receiver (the 721) and I still have only one receiver(the 625). So there shouldn't be any mirror fee?

Thanks for the reply,
Charles


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

Then you are correct, there should not be a lease/mirror fee.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Your 2 brochures can't withstand against real experience of thousands members here ! 
Pepper at SatelliteGuys did that long time ago, I can confirm too - 522 will report itself as 622 on System Info screen after install 250 GB disk inside. Using same SW.



shadough said:


> Well the 2 _brochures_ I'm looking at say BOTH are 120 gig drives
> http://www.dbsinstall.com/Dish_network/Receivers/Dish_Network_522_Receiver.asp
> http://www.solidsignal.tv/prod_display.asp?PROD=DVR625&xzoom=Large-1#xview
> 
> Can I assume these receivers are backwards compatible? Compatible w/ Legacy hardware anotherwords.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

yes
With legacy / DishPro, 1 cable to each tuner. With DishProPlus - one cable to the receiver (you can use the Seperator).


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## Tron (Mar 29, 2003)

veith said:


> I received the letter last week, called 9-11, talked to Bethany and was assured there would be no lease or dvr fees for the foreseeable future. The 625 was installed 9-13.
> 
> Today, 9-16, I saw a lease charge on my bill online. I called and talked to Angel who insisted the lease fee applied in spite of my explanation of the forced dish initiated upgrade. She finally waived lease fees for one year only.
> 
> ...


This is what I'm afraid of happening... just getting a CSR's "word" that there won't be any fees etc. If it's going to be $1 more to my bill I just won't upgrade--sorry, not for Dishes poor legal record (seriously, how many legal cases have they won--ever?) 
I just hate doing any upgrades of anything...they never go smoothly... I don't change cell phones/plans, I don't switch to Gieco just to save $50 a year etc.... the time and aggreviation in something going wrong just isn't worth it. 
Anyway, please keep us posted! Users that have been here since 2000 and eariler should be grandfathered in for the life of the account and should not be 'upgraded' to extra fees that we were never paying to begin with.

Quick tech question: If I want to have 2 dual tuner receivers being fed by 1 coax each, what LNB and switch will I need? (And I would guess 1 diplexer for each receiver as well).


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

Zero diplexers (they are used only for adding OTA)
Get a DishProPlus TWIN LNB, then one cable to each DishProPlus compatible dual tuner receiver that is equipped with the DishProPlus Seperator.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Quick answer - what sats you have ?


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## shadough (Dec 31, 2006)

In order to feed 2 tuners (this only applies to dual tuner receivers) w/ one cable everything needs to be Dish Pro PLUS; the LNB and the switch if there is one. And you CAN still use di-plexers for either an antenae or to feed the '2nd room' output to a 2nd room.


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## CABill (Mar 20, 2005)

scooper said:


> Zero diplexers (they are used only for adding OTA)


That is true as commonly used here at DBSTalk, but diplexers are used for many things other than adding OTA. Not just to carry RF from the receiver, but the Separator Tron puts behind each dual tuner is actually a diplexer. It is just that it diplexes < 1550MHz to output 1 and > 1550 MHz to output 2 instead of the more common DBS diplex of < 950 MHz and > 950 Mhz.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diplexer lists radio towers, and other uses. The DSL filter is kinda a stretch for me, but it too is a high and low split.

Just a technical nit - DBSTalk use of diplexer is usually just what you said. Tron knew he needed something, but probably not that the special diplexer is called a Separator.


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## BigDon (Oct 30, 2004)

Sorry to go off topic a bit, but this letter from Dish got me thinking about upgrading to a 625.

Is the software on the 508 essentially the same as that on the 625? My 508 can do NBR but, say for instance, if a show runs (planned) 62 minutes this week it only records 60 minutes without a little intervention on my part. My Tivo and Replay have no trouble dealing with the planned 62 minute program. They show in their guide the programs length and deal with it. 

Is the 625 better able to deal with show that on occasion runs a few minutes (like Lost) long than the 508 does?

I know I can go in and tell the 508 to always pad the recording by 3 minutes but I just wondered how the 625 handled these situations.

I'm not talking about live sporting events here.


Thanks,

Don


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## kstuart (Apr 25, 2002)

In order to catch the runover, that has to be in the Guide listings.

I've never seen the Guide listings show a 2 or 3 minute runover. (Sometimes a 5 minute one, but never less.)

The DVR recording is just from a number that represents a time to another number that represents a time. The DVR has no sensation like humans "ooh 10:00 - a round number" - when the Guide listings end time is equal to the current time, the timer stops.

Does the 508 have a "priority" system by the way ?


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## BigDon (Oct 30, 2004)

kstuart said:


> In order to catch the runover, that has to be in the Guide listings.
> 
> I've never seen the Guide listings show a 2 or 3 minute runover. (Sometimes a 5 minute one, but never less.)
> 
> ...


Yes, the 508 does have a "priority" system.


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## Tron (Mar 29, 2003)

scooper said:


> Zero diplexers (they are used only for adding OTA)
> Get a DishProPlus TWIN LNB, then one cable to each DishProPlus compatible dual tuner receiver that is equipped with the DishProPlus Seperator.


Great! No need for a switch? I only look at 119 and 110 (Used to have a second dish at 61.5, but trees grew and blocked it...but don't really need any channels from there anyway--all locals are on 119/110). So, 2 lines (1 for each dual tuner box) out of the DPP Twin LNBF go directly into the house and at each wall socket I will need a DPP Separator for the 2 inputs. Oh, what about cable length? I think the total length is about 100ft. (I'm using a powered switch (64) and have never had a problem)

Yeah, I guess diplexer wasn't the right word although I do use one to combine my super-basic-backup cable signal with the dish signal, then another diplexer to split them at the wall jack.

Well, it sounds like the 625 is the one to get (for SD). Maybe I'll wait til mid Oct to call since they -might- be in a rush to do whatever it takes to get people switched over before the deadline. Will the 625 (or 522) be new or refurb units?


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## AppliedAggression (Aug 16, 2003)

For those of you that were able to get the 622/722 instead of the 522, what did you ask for? 

I talked to Customer Retention yesterday and they said they could NOT budge on the 522 offer, no other receiver could be offered. The best they could offer me was a 622/722 and waive the DVR fee for a year, at which point I'd have to call back and see if it could be waived again. They said it couldn't be offered instead of the 522.

Is this what some of you did or was it offered as a substitute for the 522 and the DVR fee is wavied as long as it's on the account?


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## dnavas (Sep 17, 2008)

Tron said:


> I just hate doing any upgrades of anything...they never go smoothly... I don't change cell phones/plans, I don't switch to Gieco just to save $50 a year etc.... the time and aggreviation in something going wrong just isn't worth it.
> Anyway, please keep us posted! Users that have been here since 2000 and eariler should be grandfathered in for the life of the account and should not be 'upgraded' to extra fees that we were never paying to begin with.


I'm in a pretty similar boat. Hard to complain, as I'm still on the A-la-carte plan I signed up with, and while the compression quality has slowly deteriorated over the years, at least my bill has never gone up. Chalk the difference up to inflation.

Got a notice on Monday -- same day I got my replacement remote control (nice timing guys!) and about six months after paying a small fortune to get my DVHS' power supply fixed (yeah, I still have one of *those*).

They want to "upgrade" me to a 301. Or I could pay an extra $6/mo for a DVR plus $50 upfront. I fail to see how this is a "free replacement" it looks more like a "forced downgrade". At least it wasn't as bad as the song and dance my wife got on the phone, where she was told she would need a 24 month upgrade to AT200 to continue receiving the same channels we were already getting.

In the words of the CSR I talked to, the 9/17 was a hard deadline forced by the "analog digital upgrade". Right. Apparently some folks over there think we're idiots.

But wait, it gets better. Right before I hung up, pointing out that I wasn't exactly thrilled with their offer, and that I would need to "think" about it, she mentioned that I could still continue getting my programming after today. But that I should call back as soon as possible. When pressed, she neither gave a satisfactory answer as to why that was possible (see: "analog digital upgrade"), nor a date by when I should call back, noting only that because I had called, "the system" would allow me to continue receiving my programming.

Alas that FiOS will never appear in my neighborhood 

The frustrating thing is that I'd be fine with upgrading to TurboHD Bronze, but of course, I can't do that either. Even if it does mean they earn more money from me both upfront and per month.

Is it just me or are big companies always catatonically stupid?

-Dave


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## finniganps (Jan 23, 2004)

AppliedAggression said:


> For those of you that were able to get the 622/722 instead of the 522, what did you ask for?
> 
> I talked to Customer Retention yesterday and they said they could NOT budge on the 522 offer, no other receiver could be offered. The best they could offer me was a 622/722 and waive the DVR fee for a year, at which point I'd have to call back and see if it could be waived again. They said it couldn't be offered instead of the 522.
> 
> Is this what some of you did or was it offered as a substitute for the 522 and the DVR fee is wavied as long as it's on the account?


They said the same thing to me until I said I wanted HD - than they're forced to offer you a 622/722. They said I could NOT install it myself and the charge would be $150 for the 622 or $200 for the 722. I told them I wanted the 722 (a lot more space). An earlier poster was able to get it for $125 but I believe they managed to get that by installing it themselves - they refused my offer.


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## mantry (Jan 25, 2003)

We've been a dish customer for Many, Many years. We currently have a 721, 508, 301. Dish on the roof is a Dish 500 with a Quad LNB. I called and asked about the 721 upgrade and they said they would send a 625 out right away with no additional fees, no changes in bill.

OK, what about HD??

They said VIP622 for $150.00 upgrade fee (They would knock half off for long time customer).
Or, a VIP722 for $200.00 upgrade fee, again half off.
This would cover the install, new dish install. There would be NO additional fees. No lease fees, No DVR fees. The only increase would be the HD content fees.

QUESTION: Is the ONLY difference in the 622/722 just the size of the HD? 350SD/55HD hrs for the 722 versus 200SD/30HD hrs for the 622?

We get by with 90 SD hrs on our 721 so I don't see a big deal unless we really start to pile up the HD content. My wife who does the majority of the recording/watching "Her" shows is pretty good about watching and cleaning up.

Do both support External HD? Again, any reason why we would want the 722 other than just the larger HD?

Now for the HD content question. We have Top 200 that we pay for on an annual fee (Saves about $4.00/month). He said our HD content would be either $7.00/month or $10.00 a month.

$7.00/month would be the standard HD for the TOP 200 package and that if we paid $10.00/month instead of $7.00/month it would be TURBO HD which would add 26 additional channels on top of the standard HD. 
Is this true?? I could not find anything that showed the $7.00 pkg or the differences in the $7.00 versus $10.00.

We will probably go ahead with the upgrade. Any other pointers? We live in SLC. Should we insist on any particular Dish/LNB combo? It is nice now that we don't have any external switches, just the QUAD and 2 lines to the 721, 1 line to the 508 and 1 line to the 301.

Thanks in advance!!!!


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

mantry said:


> There would be NO additional fees. No lease fees, No DVR fees. The only increase would be the HD content fees.


Have someone send you a letter or email to confirm that one. Or at least another CSR on the phone.



> QUESTION: Is the ONLY difference in the 622/722 just the size of the HD?


The 722 is black, the 622 silver. But I'm probably confused as I thought the 721 was a one-TV out unit. If that's true and your just replacing it with no need for a second SD-only TV out, why not get a ViP612? It's black.



> Do both support External HD?


All three do, which is why the larger drive on the 722 may not be necessary unless you allow alot of content to accumulate.



> Now for the HD content question. We have Top 200 that we pay for on an annual fee (Saves about $4.00/month). He said our HD content would be either $7.00/month or $10.00 a month.
> 
> $7.00/month would be the standard HD for the TOP 200 package and that if we paid $10.00/month instead of $7.00/month it would be TURBO HD which would add 26 additional channels on top of the standard HD.
> Is this true?? I could not find anything that showed the $7.00 pkg or the differences in the $7.00 versus $10.00.


Never heard of this.



> We will probably go ahead with the upgrade. Any other pointers? We live in SLC. Should we insist on any particular Dish/LNB combo? It is nice now that we don't have any external switches, just the QUAD and 2 lines to the 721, 1 line to the 508 and 1 line to the 301.
> 
> Thanks in advance!!!!


You will get a new dish, depending upon various issues either one to replace your existing dish or one added to your exisiting dish. Others may be more aware of SLC area issues.


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## finniganps (Jan 23, 2004)

mantry said:


> QUESTION: Is the ONLY difference in the 622/722 just the size of the HD? 350SD/55HD hrs for the 722 versus 200SD/30HD hrs for the 622?
> 
> We get by with 90 SD hrs on our 721 so I don't see a big deal unless we really start to pile up the HD content. My wife who does the majority of the recording/watching "Her" shows is pretty good about watching and cleaning up.


Color and HD space is the difference. Keep in mind the 722 only allows for 55 hours of HD recording. The 622 only allows for 30 hours. To me, that difference is worth $50 more, but that's me. I think the external HD option comes with another fee - I don't know how much. Yes, there's A LOT of space for SD programming, but if you have a HDTV, why would you record in SD unless you had a space issue. I doubt you'll be able to increase your space that much for only $50 in the future.


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## gtannenb (Sep 18, 2002)

I have an active 721 and received the upgrade letter. I called and was offered a 522. At first I was told I would have to pay the DVR fee but when I questioned it, I was told I would only pay what I am paying now for the 721 as it is my 2nd receiver.

My issue is that they are telling me I required to have the 522 connected to the phone line or will be charged $5.00 per month. I do not have a phone line near the 721 and rather not have to run an unsightly phone line the the unit. Anyone able to get this fee waived?

I tried arguing this point to the rep but she would not budge.

Also, will the 522 work with my SW64 switch?

Thank you.


Lastly, does anyone know when Dish will turn off the 721? All I could get out of the rep was sometime toward the end of the year I will start loosing channels.


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## makman (Dec 2, 2002)

gtannenb said:


> I have an active 721 and received the upgrade letter. I called and was offered a 522. At first I was told I would have to pay the DVR fee but when I questioned it, I was told I would only pay what I am paying now for the 721 as it is my 2nd receiver.
> 
> My issue is that they are telling me I required to have the 522 connected to the phone line or will be charged $5.00 per month. I do not have a phone line near the 721 and rather not have to run an unsightly phone line the the unit. Anyone able to get this fee waived?
> 
> ...


e-mail CEO at EchoStar dot com. They can do much more.


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## euro_boy (Jun 20, 2005)

Finally called last night to get my 7200 replaced and it was painful. I got to play CSR roulette before I was offered something that was satisfactory to me.

CSR 1: Offered 501/508 as free replacement. When asked about dual-tuner (522/625), informed me that the best he could do was 625 for $50 upgrade + $50 installation. Also stated that there would be DVR fees associated with 625. I declined the upgrade offer and hung up.

CSR2: Stated that she can guarantee 508 as a replacement. When asked about dual-tuner DVR said that I do not qualify for any upgrades because I took Dish'N'it'UP offer less than 24 months ago (which I did) and it prevents her from offering me anything more than 508 - it did not matter that I am long time customer (since 97). When asked to speak to supervisor she put me on hold and I got disconnected after a few minutes.

CSR 3: Pretty much gave me the same deal as CSR 1 (625 plus $100 for upgrade and install). When asked if she could sweeten it a little for long time customer, she checked with supervisor and removed the upgrade and install fees. Also stated that since this is a replacement for a non-fee DVR there would be no DVR fees associated with this receiver, however, informed me that this will be a leased receiver and will incur lease fees.

So, in the end it paid up to be persistent and call multiple times till I got what I was willing to take, which was a free replacement 625 for my old 7200.

Yes I do know that I will most likely have to fight DVR fee once I get my first bill.


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## shadough (Dec 31, 2006)

Yea I called last night also. Was offered the a 522 fo rmy 721. Didn't feel like playing the CSR game so I just took the other. DIdn't even ask about fees. I know its going to be a leased recevr since they dont offer them any other way. I shouldnt hafta worry about teh DVR fee being an 'everything pak' sub. I'll probably complain if theres a lease fee. What about a phone line fee? If I plug the 522 into the phone line, would I ever be able to unplug it?? Will there be a fee for no phone line w/ the 522?


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

$5 for the 2 tuner, and it's waived if the phoneline is plugged in.


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## Tweakophyte (Dec 11, 2004)

I've only called once and I was offered all kinds of options for my 721 and my 301. By the sound of things here, I may have blown it not taking them up on the upgrade to the 722.

Dumb question... does anyone use a 622 without an HD montior? I ask because I have a 622 for my HDTV in the family room and am thinking of using the upgrade to replace that with a 722 (more hours), then move the 622 into the bedroom where the 721 is. We do not have HDTV in the bedroom right now. Thoughts?


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

There is no problem using a 622 on a non-HD TV. It can be configured to display on a 4x3 screen and the non-HD outputs are downconverted to SD anyway. An HD receiver gives great SD pictures, and you'll be ready for when you upgrade your bedroom TV.


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## jclewter79 (Jan 8, 2008)

Are they really replacing the 301's? I though that they were still selling 301's.


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## puckwithahalo (Sep 3, 2007)

301's are not being replaced at this time


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

All ViP receivers may be used with non-HD monitors - you'll get an excellent SD picture.


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## Tweakophyte (Dec 11, 2004)

Thanks for the comments. Now I hope the 722 RF antenna range is better than the 622. My 721 never has any problems and to this day we need need to wave our arms around to get the 622 to respond to the RF remote... both boxes are in the same place in the basement (and yes, I have a small piece of coax putting the 622 antenna in a "better" place).


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## jclewter79 (Jan 8, 2008)

Tweakophyte said:


> Thanks for the comments. Now I hope the 722 RF antenna range is better than the 622. My 721 never has any problems and to this day we need need to wave our arms around to get the 622 to respond to the RF remote... both boxes are in the same place in the basement (and yes, I have a small piece of coax putting the 622 antenna in a "better" place).


You can also use a splitter and combine the UHF antenna feed into the home distribution (TV2) output. Then split it back out before TV2 and put the antenna on one side of the splitter. That will bring the antenna right into the room with TV2.


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## avchong (May 26, 2004)

jgoggan said:


> We got a letter in the mail today from Dish saying that "due to upgrades in our system's technology and services, it is necessary to upgrade one or more of your older model receivers at no charge to you so you can continue to receive your programming." Then just a number to call. (I only have a 721 and a 301.)
> 
> I called and they said that the 721 has been discontinued (obviously -- quite a while ago, actually) and that they were going to replace it with a 625 at no charge. I then asked if I would be charged a monthly lease or DVR fee -- and she replied that, yes, there would be the monthly $5.98 fee because it was a leased receiver.
> 
> ...


I was also told that there would definitely be no Lease or DVR fees for the upgrade. Well, my 721 upgrade to a 625 was installed on 9/20/08 and my account was immediately charged a monthly LEASED RECEIVER FEE of $5.00 plus taxes. Called their billing dept. and was told that the lease and DVR fees apply.

Can anyone else check their account and see if they have been charged.


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## finniganps (Jan 23, 2004)

avchong said:


> I was also told that there would definitely be no Lease or DVR fees for the upgrade. Well, my 721 upgrade to a 625 was installed on 9/20/08 and my account was immediately charged a monthly LEASED RECEIVER FEE of $5.00 plus taxes. Called their billing dept. and was told that the lease and DVR fees apply.
> 
> Can anyone else check their account and see if they have been charged.


I am now having this same problem after specifically asking them about lease and or DVR fees associated with the 722 - I was told that there were "no fees" of any kind for the 722. Now they don't want to give me a supervisor because they say it is a "valid charge." Now they are saying the fee will be waived for 4 months.


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## makman (Dec 2, 2002)

finniganps said:


> I am now having this same problem after specifically asking them about lease and or DVR fees associated with the 722 - I was told that there were "no fees" of any kind for the 722. Now they don't want to give me a supervisor because they say it is a "valid charge." Now they are saying the fee will be waived for 4 months.


ceo AT echostar DOT com


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## finniganps (Jan 23, 2004)

makman said:


> ceo AT echostar DOT com


Yeah, I sent an e-mail last night - we'll see what happens. For anyone who hasn't done this yet - I wouldn't suggest you sign the 24 month additional commitment unless you're ok with the fees.


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## puckwithahalo (Sep 3, 2007)

> Yeah, I sent an e-mail last night - we'll see what happens. For anyone who hasn't done this yet - I wouldn't suggest you sign the 24 month additional commitment unless you're ok with the fees.


The free exchange for the 721 has no commitment. But it also would have been for a 625 not a 622 ; Sounds like you participated in an upgrade promotion, not the discontinued receiver promotion. Which would be why the fees were not waived as well. They only applied to the free replacement, not upgrade promotions.


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## finniganps (Jan 23, 2004)

puckwithahalo said:


> The free exchange for the 721 has no commitment. But it also would have been for a 625 not a 622 ; Sounds like you participated in an upgrade promotion, not the discontinued receiver promotion. Which would be why the fees were not waived as well. They only applied to the free replacement, not upgrade promotions.


Yeah, I understand that now. However, I was very specific when I questioned the CSR who confirmed I would not be charged a DVR/lease fee for the 722. The good news is Dish called me this morning and agreed to waive the charge since I was told incorrect information by the CSR.


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## puckwithahalo (Sep 3, 2007)

> Yeah, I understand that now. However, I was very specific when I questioned the CSR who confirmed I would not be charged a DVR/lease fee for the 722. The good news is Dish called me this morning and agreed to waive the charge since I was told incorrect information by the CSR.


I figured that's what would happen. I don't doubt that you were told wrong. It does happen. I was just trying to clear the air on what the policy actually is.


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## makman (Dec 2, 2002)

finniganps said:


> Yeah, I understand that now. However, I was very specific when I questioned the CSR who confirmed I would not be charged a DVR/lease fee for the 722. The good news is Dish called me this morning and agreed to waive the charge since I was told incorrect information by the CSR.


Just a word of advice. If it was someone from CEO at EchoStar dot com who called you, hopefully you have their name and direct line. Have them send you an e-mail confirming what they told you this morning.

Mitch


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## jerryyyyy (Jul 19, 2002)

Can somebody tell me if the 522 records OTA? It is not on their web site. The 622 seems to.

I believe the 522 does not have an ATSC tuner, hence cannot do this.


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## CABill (Mar 20, 2005)

5000 owners are also getting upgraded. Anybody know what receiver they replace a 5000 with?


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

jerryyyyy said:


> Can somebody tell me if the 522 records OTA? It is not on their web site. The 622 seems to.
> 
> I believe the 522 does not have an ATSC tuner, hence cannot do this.


Try Dish's Techportal - there are manuals for each model.


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## bogieman (Sep 24, 2008)

CABill said:


> 5000 owners are also getting upgraded. Anybody know what receiver they replace a 5000 with?


Yep-311. The first one I received would not do a check switch, Dish sent me a second one-it also won't do a check switch. The 5000 works perfectly and I also hooked up a borrowed 301 that checked the switches perfectly. I do not have a clue why the 311's will not work. I have legacy lnb's and sw21 switches.
So I get to deal with cs yet again.


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## puckwithahalo (Sep 3, 2007)

> Yep-311. The first one I received would not do a check switch, Dish sent me a second one-it also won't do a check switch. The 5000 works perfectly and I also hooked up a borrowed 301 that checked the switches perfectly. I do not have a clue why the 311's will not work. I have legacy lnb's and sw21 switches.
> So I get to deal with cs yet again.


That's odd, the 311 is usually pretty solid receiver. Basically a 301 with the smart card built in internally.


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## jerryyyyy (Jul 19, 2002)

So I get home all irritated about having to mess up my nice set up and take a look at my black 721. Well, it says 722 on it! They sent a 722 user the 721 letter. Duh. 

Hey, signing off the forum until Dish makes another FXXX Up......


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## EagleTar (May 13, 2006)

There is one difference between the 522 and 625.The 625 has dish on demand and the 522 doesn't.One thing I would like to know is,do they still produce the 522?I was told by installer that they no longer do.The 625 is still being produced.If thats the case then most of the replacement 522 irds would be refurbs.


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## Kevin_F (Apr 22, 2002)

The 5000 should be replaced with a 301. If you have a Dolby Digital adapter let Dish know when you call the replacement phone number. They will provide you with an 381. The issue with the 381 is that it does not have coax output so if your TV only supports coax input, then that receiver will not work for you.

My in laws needed both Dolby Digital and coax output (for a second TV), so Dish ended up providing them with a 510 to solve both needs. They waived the DVR fee as part of this replacement.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

EagleTar said:


> There is one difference between the 522 and 625.The 625 has dish on demand and the 522 doesn't.One thing I would like to know is,do they still produce the 522?I was told by installer that they no longer do.The 625 is still being produced.If thats the case then most of the replacement 522 irds would be refurbs.


Nope - both have DOD; members found it here long time ago .

If you will check then only one difference is 120 vs 250 GB disk. ONLY !
Produce or not - it's the same DVR.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

P Smith said:


> jerryyyyy said:
> 
> 
> > Can somebody tell me if the 522 records OTA? It is not on their web site. The 622 seems to.
> ...


Or in other words (since you provided no link to Dish's Techportal) no. The 522/625 does not receive or record OTA signals. (The 622 receives and can record only digital OTA signals.)


P Smith said:


> EagleTar said:
> 
> 
> > There is one difference between the 522 and 625.The 625 has dish on demand and the 522 doesn't.One thing I would like to know is,do they still produce the 522?I was told by installer that they no longer do.The 625 is still being produced.If thats the case then most of the replacement 522 irds would be refurbs.
> ...


The larger hard drive provides more space for DISH on Demand. Both the 522 and 625 should have the feature (as do 508s and 510s) but receivers with larger hard drives will have more content stored.


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## CABill (Mar 20, 2005)

Kevin_F said:


> The 5000 should be replaced with a 301. If you have a Dolby Digital adapter ...


Thanks. It is for the parents of someone who posted in Alt.DBS.Echostar and I linked to your post and bogieman's.


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## flatus (Aug 18, 2006)

After reading of all the mix-ups, I am dreading making this call. I think I am going to wait as long as possible to get my 721 swapped out. Maybe by next month the csr's will know the proper charges and waivers and such.


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## puckwithahalo (Sep 3, 2007)

> After reading of all the mix-ups, I am dreading making this call. I think I am going to wait as long as possible to get my 721 swapped out. Maybe by next month the csr's will know the proper charges and waivers and such.


Call in and state that you need to participate in the discontinued receiver promotion. Don't say you want to upgrade your receiver, as I think that is what confuses most agents (has never confused me, but that's the only way I can guess they make the jump to the Dishin' it up promotion). The codes for the charges and waivers are automatically added to the account under the proper promotion. I suggest choosing tech support rather than customer service, but that's just my opinion.


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## EagleTar (May 13, 2006)

P Smith said:


> Nope - both have DOD; members found it here long time ago .
> 
> If you will check then only one difference is 120 vs 250 GB disk. ONLY !
> Produce or not - it's the same DVR.


Thanks for the clarification.They must have implemented the dod in a s/w upgrade at some point.Still if if your forced to get a replacement I would go for a 625 because of the larger hdd.I don't trust the refurbs we had to get a 721 replaced 3 times and finally ended up with a new 625 and the performance is much better.


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## EagleTar (May 13, 2006)

> I suggest choosing tech support rather than customer service, but that's just my opinion


I totally agree with you there.No offense to all of the csr's but I have always had much better results with tech support,and english is their primary language.


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## Jupiter (Aug 19, 2002)

I was also forced to upgrade a 721 to a 522... We also have a 508 still up and running that I plan to replace at a later time...

Here is the twist... My wife tells me that *two *522's showed up at the door this afternoon! I will have to check my dish account along with my bank account to see if they charged me anything extra. But it looks like I just upgraded both my 721 & 508!

How should I handle this? Should I call and see what is up with the extra 522? Or should I just activate the new 522's and turn off the old machines?


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

Jupiter said:


> ...
> How should I handle this? Should I call and see what is up with the extra 522? Or should I just activate the new 522's and turn off the old machines?


Sounds like an ethics question.  *You* and *only* you know the answer to that question.


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## Jupiter (Aug 19, 2002)

Well.... This actually messes up my master plan with my wife.

The 508 is starting to have little problems here and there. I told my wife that we should do the upgrade to the 622 or 722 in order to get a TON more storage space for the kids programming that seems to have taken over our 508. With the HD capabilities of the 622/722, I figure it was my best chance to get her to upgrade 13 year old Sony 27" to a new HD TV.... Now that they sent a second 522, she will see that as a great replacement for the 508 and I won't be able to get an HD TV for who knows how long!


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## finniganps (Jan 23, 2004)

Jupiter said:


> Well.... This actually messes up my master plan with my wife.
> 
> The 508 is starting to have little problems here and there. I told my wife that we should do the upgrade to the 622 or 722 in order to get a TON more storage space for the kids programming that seems to have taken over our 508. With the HD capabilities of the 622/722, I figure it was my best chance to get her to upgrade 13 year old Sony 27" to a new HD TV.... Now that they sent a second 522, she will see that as a great replacement for the 508 and I won't be able to get an HD TV for who knows how long!


Another nice thing abou tthe 722 is that the recorded programs can be accessed by either TV. I used to record things on the 508 and 721, but obviously could only watch the program on whichever TV had the recording (without moving the receiver). The 722 has a lot more space and the programs can be watched from either room. My HDTV comes in next week - I can hardly wait.


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## tyleit (May 26, 2004)

I have been following the posts regarding the demise of the 721 trying to figure my best strategy for approaching Dish in my situation.
I have in service TWO 721's each serving an HD capable TV. I use basic cable to get QAM HD network service which does not allow 721 fuctionality to keep costs down.
I am well aware of the vip722 and would like to go there as opposed to the 522/625 offer. I am amenable to paying a reasonable sum for upgrade hardware and $10 per month HD service fee but am averse to paying lease or DVR service fees as I pay none now.
Any thoughts on who I should talk to what strategy to use when I contact Dish?

Thanks


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## jclewter79 (Jan 8, 2008)

tyleit said:


> I have been following the posts regarding the demise of the 721 trying to figure my best strategy for approaching Dish in my situation.
> I have in service TWO 721's each serving an HD capable TV. I use basic cable to get QAM HD network service which does not allow 721 fuctionality to keep costs down.
> I am well aware of the vip722 and would like to go there as opposed to the 522/625 offer. I am amenable to paying a reasonable sum for upgrade hardware and $10 per month HD service fee but am averse to paying lease or DVR service fees as I pay none now.
> Any thoughts on who I should talk to what strategy to use when I contact Dish?
> ...


It seems that if you don't want to pay a dvr fee, you should either take what they are offering for free or hope you get a csr that tells you the wrong thing, so you can email the the ceo addy and complain to get a freebie. If you have any other leased receivers besides the two 721's you will probably have a hard time getting two 722's anyways.


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## tyleit (May 26, 2004)

jclewter79 said:


> It seems that if you don't want to pay a dvr fee, you should either take what they are offering for free or hope you get a csr that tells you the wrong thing, so you can email the the ceo addy and complain to get a freebie. If you have any other leased receivers besides the two 721's you will probably have a hard time getting two 722's anyways.


I have no leased receivers. This 721 change-out was not requested by me. My current service includes no addtional charges for DVR service. I currently OWN my equipment. I am willing to pay a resonable fee to upgrade to new hardware (ie722s)which I will not own. I also agree to pay $10 per month for upgraded HDservice. Is it not reasonable for Dish to waive lease and DVR service fees for this equipment?


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## jclewter79 (Jan 8, 2008)

You don't have to convince me. Thing about it is the 722 is not an equal to the 721 and, is not what is being switched out for free. If you subscribe to the AEP package there will be no dvr fees anyways. If you switch to a dvr advantage package that will cover one dvr fee. To get them both waived I think it will just have to be luck of the draw. Or take what they are offering you for free.


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## Tron (Mar 29, 2003)

So it sounds like another difference between the 522 and the 625 is that if you get a 522 now, it is 100% chance of being a refurb vs. the 625 where there is a good chance that it is new?


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## Jupiter (Aug 19, 2002)

Jupiter said:


> I was also forced to upgrade a 721 to a 522... We also have a 508 still up and running that I plan to replace at a later time...
> 
> Here is the twist... My wife tells me that *two *522's showed up at the door this afternoon! I will have to check my dish account along with my bank account to see if they charged me anything extra. But it looks like I just upgraded both my 721 & 508!
> 
> How should I handle this? Should I call and see what is up with the extra 522? Or should I just activate the new 522's and turn off the old machines?


Turns out that the first 522 that I tried to hook up had bad video output. S-Video and the regular rca video output had wavy lines and bad color. So it turns out that having the second one sent to me worked out well since the other one worked fine.... Since my wife still wants to upgrade our old 508, I just went ahead and did the Dish it Up program and I now have a 722 that will be installed tomorrow.


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## jtnygard (Sep 12, 2008)

I got my 625 replacement for the 721 and notice much more compression artifacts and ghostly shapes for anything moving in the background. I had no problem with the 721 quality the last few years. The new unit was installed by a tech guy from Dish, so the connection and signal quality was verified. Does anyone else exprience the same?


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

Tron said:


> So it sounds like another difference between the 522 and the 625 is that if you get a 522 now, it is 100% chance of being a refurb vs. the 625 where there is a good chance that it is new?


I haven't seen a NEW 625 in several months. 625s are in very short supply, and Dish has been shipping out a lot of 522 remans in their place. We are lucky when we get some 625 remans.


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## Tweakophyte (Dec 11, 2004)

Hi-

Any updates? Has anyone gone from a 721 to a 722 (or 622) with minimal cost while keeping the no-fee aspect?

Thanks,


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## mantry (Jan 25, 2003)

Tweakophyte said:


> Hi-
> 
> Any updates? Has anyone gone from a 721 to a 722 (or 622) with minimal cost while keeping the no-fee aspect?
> 
> Thanks,


We did just that for $100.00 upgrade fee. With No DVR fees, No lease fees. Haven't seen the SECOND bill which should be void of all the upgrade fees, credits, partial service of this, etc, etc. I've got my fingers crossed until then...

I'll try to post a final recap when it was all said and done.


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## tikihead (Jan 10, 2003)

I called the replacement phone number last week and spoke to "John" (at least that what he said his name was)

I told him that I was thinking of upgrading to HD and wanted to see what was available. I've been with Dish for over 10 years and I pay annually.

First he offered me:

622 - $100
722 - $125

plus $10 HD, 24 mos. commitment, no lease fee (I own my 721) and I wasn't clear about a DVR fee. (also offered me $10 for returning the 721)

I questioned this price (is that the best you can do?) and reminded him of my loyalty and payment history. He then said he could take another $50 off the equipment (622 - $50, 722 - $75) sounded pretty good to me and I told him I would get back to him after discussing it with my wife. He gave me his "operator #" and told me to reference that when I call back. He also said after Nov. the 721 would not work. 

Later that day I received a phone call from Derrick informing me about the Dish replacement, I told him I just called the number and spoke to someone about it and I was deciding on upgrading to HD, he said OK and hung up.

2 days ago I got an email saying that my equipment was shipped and yesterday I received a 522 from UPS. I'm not sure how that happened, but now I don't think I'm going to go with HD just yet. I will probably just hook up the 522 and see what happens...

It's a shame Dish could have extracted more money from me and another 2 year commitment, but it seems like they dropped the ball. 

...oh, yeah BTW I think I saw FIOS lines being strung up down the street, I wonder what they are offering? :biggthump


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## JohnMI (Apr 2, 2002)

mantry said:


> We did just that for $100.00 upgrade fee. With No DVR fees, No lease fees. Haven't seen the SECOND bill which should be void of all the upgrade fees, credits, partial service of this, etc, etc. I've got my fingers crossed until then...
> 
> I'll try to post a final recap when it was all said and done.


We're in the same boat. Did the upgrade from the 721 to the 722 and was promised no additional fees (except the $10 HD fee, which I expected). We'll know for certain when we get the first bill -- but we had no problem doing the upgrade itself.

They even needed to install a new pole for the 61.5 dish and did it for free. (Last time I had a "free" install, I had to pay $100 to the local installer because I wanted it on a pole instead of my roof.)

- John...


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## JohnMI (Apr 2, 2002)

Actually, I just checked online and see that they are indeed charging me for a bunch of crap that they shouldn't! I see the following:

Dish Network DVR Service ($7.57)
Addl Receiver Access Fee ($6.33)
Upgrade Charge ($150)
Receiver Installation ($50)

So, they are charging me the monthly DVR fee that they promised they wouldn't. They are also charging me some "additional receiver fee" that makes no sense at all. And on top of that they have $200 in upgrade/installation fees! Note that that is IN ADDITION TO the $125 that they already charged my card directly when I took the 721 to 722 offer last month!

I've just sent an email to CEO. We'll see how it goes...

Bah!

- John...


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Seems they took same advantage as companies doing with rebates:
- promise something for free or reduce price
- charge full amount
- wait if a customer will follow - 90% does not
- not answer to requests
- lost paperwork
- delay in case if a customer will give up or will forget it
- apologize
- pay/return promised money after months of hassles.


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## buist (Nov 12, 2002)

Add me to the list of customers that all of a sudden has new fees added to their account. We'll see how long it takes them to fix this (if they do)..

Tim


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## shadough (Dec 31, 2006)

My best guess as to why the 311's would NOT do a check switch is they likely had factory default software on the unit, and as I have found out, the old software is NOT compatible w/ the new Purple G3 smart cards. This creates a loop that basically will not allow the receiver to even check switch in order to download a software version that IS compatible. Rendering it useless! Somehow this tragic flaw was overlooked by the brains @dish.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Remove the G3 card, do switch check and give it time to DL latest FW using internal card.
Then insert the purple one.


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## sunspot (Apr 21, 2004)

I just got off the phone with a CSR. They are quite willing to ship me a 625 but it will be a leased unit at no charge. As I own my 721, I am not willing to accept any leased equipment. The heck with them.

The CSR explained that the swap-out is due to conversion to digital from analog, not because of any Tivo lawsuit.

Has anyone here swapped out the 721 for an *owned* 625?


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

sunspot said:


> I just got off the phone with a CSR. They are quite willing to ship me a 625 but it will be a leased unit at no charge. As I own my 721, I am not willing to accept any leased equipment. The heck with them.
> 
> The CSR explained that the swap-out is due to conversion to digital from analog, not because of any Tivo lawsuit.
> 
> Has anyone here swapped out the 721 for an *owned* 625?


Your choice, but know that Dish hasn't done any software development to support the new access cards for 721s (and a number of other receivers), so the new cards won't work, which means that your 721 will be completely useless a couple of months from now when Dish switches to the new encryption system, which requires the new cards. Your 721 won't get any Dish programming.

That is the reason for the free upgrade, not (directly) because of the TiVo lawsuit (though that helped make the decision not to further develop for infringing receivers), and has nothing at all to do with the analog-to-digital OTA broadcast convertion.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

"_but know that Dish hasn't done any software development to support the new access cards for 721s_" - I wouldn't be so definitive without looking into code.


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## sunspot (Apr 21, 2004)

P Smith said:


> "_but know that Dish hasn't done any software development to support the new access cards for 721s_" - I wouldn't be so definitive without looking into code.


True but my 721 will still be dead in a few months.

It's not like I'll lose service. I'm using a 622 as my main reciever.


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## makman (Dec 2, 2002)

sunspot said:


> I just got off the phone with a CSR. They are quite willing to ship me a 625 but it will be a leased unit at no charge. As I own my 721, I am not willing to accept any leased equipment. The heck with them.
> 
> The CSR explained that the swap-out is due to conversion to digital from analog, not because of any Tivo lawsuit.
> 
> Has anyone here swapped out the 721 for an *owned* 625?


try ceo_AT_echostar.com


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## finniganps (Jan 23, 2004)

makman said:


> try ceo_AT_echostar.com


If you want to OWN the 625, you can always BUY it. ceo e-mail is not going to give it to you for free, but they might not charge you the lease fee. The difference is that when you terminate service, you must return the leased equipment.

I also went from a 508 and 721 to the 722. I am very happy with the move. I don't own it, so now I get charged sales tax every month (presumably on the value of the lease that they aren't charging me for).


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## makman (Dec 2, 2002)

finniganps said:


> If you want to OWN the 625, you can always BUY it. ceo e-mail is not going to give it to you for free,


They have indeed given people who own their equipment an upgrade to owned equipment. Depending on what you want to own, there may or may not be an upgrade fee. You should be able to get a 625 at no fee.

Mitch


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## Webslinger (Nov 13, 2008)

First, I'd like to thank the forum members for all the feedback about this upgrade program. I've followed this since I did my first "dish 721 upgrade" google search after I got my first letter from Dish. I also googled the 888 number to see if it was a scam. I've read the forums for awhile, and registered so I could contribute my feedback and experience(s) in getting my upgrade. I currently have a 721 and a 501.

NET/NET-> Upgraded my 721 to 722 for $75.00 and an install with no DVR fees and $2/mo increase for lease fee. My AT250 upgrade to HD gold = +10.00/mo. Installation will be the next day and I guess they are going to mess with my 2 dish 500s. 

"The Story"
So after reading and re-reading all 7 pages of this forum posting over the last month or so I called Dish. I played dumb and just said I got some sort of letter and a call about my equipment needing upgrading. At first she thought I had an "HD721" that needed to be exchanged and I had to correct her. I think she offered a 522 and said everything would be the same and no increases on my monthly bill and there would be a deduct of 5.99 for the Home Protection I had on the 721. 

I told her I wanted to get more of a DVR and did they have and HD unit I could get instead. of course she pitched the 622 and then up to the 722 for $125. I told her I thought the $125 was a little high and that I had "a friend" that got the top of the line DirecTV unit and it was less then that. I said since I was basically starting over I thought maybe I should compare what they have since now I was thinking about HD. That caused her to want to transfer me to a next level CSR and can I please hold?

So the call was transferred to "Kevin" who had perfect speech and after a quick check of my account and a recap was quick to offer me the 722 for $75.00 and no other monthly fees except the upgrade to HD Gold. I said that sounded cool to me and lets go for it. He said he had to recheck and get a couple things set up on the account and to hang on a sec but I wouldn't be on hold. a few key clicks are going on and then suddenly I was disconnected! All that for nothin'.

Soooo..... back on the call and back to the top of the CSR food chain. The new CSR (based in the Philippines) started over of course- (even after my repeated comments about just having been disconnected) pitching me on $125 for the 722. I told her what I had just verified with "Kevin" and that I guess I needed to talk to a next level CSR. I guess that wasn't an option she wanted so it was the "hold on a second" and the the return with "Yes I can also give you the $75.00 price for the 722. I was back in business.

The one thing she wouldn't budge on was the "increase" of the $2 for the lease amount. She said I'm paying $5.00 as a second unit fee now and that would change to $7.00. I pounded away on that quite a bit and was really putting it to her but she was firm. She said that to exchange, there would be no lease fee, but since I was upgrading to a 722 there would be a lease fee of some kind. I guess I could (and still) go back after that $2.00 but I'll let them have that for now. "Kevin" of course said no change.

It's interesting and clear they are leveraging that "only" 2 bucks because she said things like "it's only 2 dollars and that's not very much is it?" and other corny pitch lines. perhaps she wore me down, but short of hanging up and calling back I hit the end. I took it to her and told her I wanted to transfer to another CSR, but in the end they got the 2 bucks. If the 2 bucks really starts to grate on me, there's always ceoATdishnetwork.com....

Today is Thursday and I just got off the phone around 10:15 local time. They have scheduled a "tech" (snort haha) to come out tomorrow between noon and 5pm to "install" the 722 and do something with my twin dish 500's. I don't think I need anything but we'll see. The 721 was to be given to the tech, but I'm not giving it to him and told the CSR I had stuff I wanted to copy off of it first before I sent it in for the $10.00 credit. She did verify there is no charge not to return it or any credits against the 722 more than the $10 bucks previously mentioned on return. I'll probably keep it and fiddle with it or just keep the stuff on it on that unless I can wire the 722 to record video in from the video out on the 721.

So for $75 bucks they come out, inspect my set up, (with possibly new dishes) give me a new 722 with 2 spiffy new remotes, and a fresh warranty for a 721 I haven't used since it mostly flaked out a year or so ago. Plus I get HD channels and become HD ready for (to me) what works out to another $6 bucks a month. Oh, I do have to plug the thing into the phone, but we'll see how long that lasts...

Sounds reasonable to me.


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## JohnMI (Apr 2, 2002)

Just to note it, my 721 to 722 upgrade went pretty much like Webslinger's did -- except that I hadn't heard of anyone getting it for less than $125, so I ended up paying that instead of only $75 like he did. But, then again, I didn't have any change to my monthly fee (for lease or DVR stuff) except for the extra $10 for HD.

So, in the end, it all worked out well.

I will note that it did NOT go well at first -- they charged me 3 different times for installation that was supposed to be free. My $125 install turned into a $400 install. And my monthly went up $20/month at first because they did some higher HD tier than I had asked for. It took an email to CEO to get it all worked out. But, in the end, I pay exactly $10 more per month that I did before the 721->722 upgrade.

- John...


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

The $2 fee is one of the things that "Kevin" was "rechecking" on your account. CSRs are often quick to tell you the wrong thing, and then remember that "it depends" and have to check your account to see what the real story is. The deal that you got is correct and reflects what many others here have received.


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## dennispap (Feb 1, 2007)

I like the ""it's only 2 dollars and that's not very much is it?" 

You should have said "no it isnt. Since i am a good customer, and want to stay as one, dish shouldnt mind not charging me those 2 dollars, "it's only 2 dollars and that's not very much is it?":lol:


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## finniganps (Jan 23, 2004)

jgoggan said:


> Just to note it, my 721 to 722 upgrade went pretty much like Webslinger's did -- except that I hadn't heard of anyone getting it for less than $125, so I ended up paying that instead of only $75 like he did. But, then again, I didn't have any change to my monthly fee (for lease or DVR stuff) except for the extra $10 for HD.
> 
> So, in the end, it all worked out well.
> 
> ...


My facts were similar to yours except I paid more on installation ($200) and only ended up paying $5 more per month. I'm only paying $5 more and getting the HD because I no longer get charged for a second receiver. I had a 721 and 508 and only use the 722 now. I'm very happy with this setup.


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## Webslinger (Nov 13, 2008)

jgoggan said:


> Just to note it, my 721 to 722 upgrade went pretty much like Webslinger's did -- except that I hadn't heard of anyone getting it for less than $125, so I ended up paying that instead of only $75 like he did. But, then again, I didn't have any change to my monthly fee (for lease or DVR stuff) except for the extra $10 for HD.


I had seen another poster mention the $75 figure, and that was my goal as was no DVR monthly fee. I was going to leverage DirectTV offering their top unit for $99 but didn't want to leave 24 dollars on the table. "Kevin" dropping right to $75 confirmed that it could be done and I was satisfied with that.

I guess they could try and bump me tomorrow when the Installer shows up for some antenna thing, but that would be a mistake.


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## Webslinger (Nov 13, 2008)

I FORGOT TO MENTION!!

Take with a grain of salt, but the last CSR rep said that the 721 would keep working until Jan 2009. I got this when said I'd have to think about the offer she gave me and how long before the 721 would stop working.


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## Webslinger (Nov 13, 2008)

dennispap said:


> I like the ""it's only 2 dollars and that's not very much is it?"
> 
> You should have said "no it isnt. Since i am a good customer, and want to stay as one, dish shouldnt mind not charging me those 2 dollars, "it's only 2 dollars and that's not very much is it?":lol:


Oh yeah, the "only 2 dollars" really got me bent. I think at the end of the day I backed off because I have "Kevin" saying no lease amount and her saying the opposite. I'm thinking that's my recourse should I choose to chase down the ceo email route.


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

Webslinger said:


> I FORGOT TO MENTION!!
> 
> Take with a grain of salt, but the last CSR rep said that the 721 would keep working until Jan 2009. I got this when said I'd have to think about the offer she gave me and how long before the 721 would stop working.


That's the current estimate when Dish is going to switch over to the new encryption system (Nagravision 3). When that happens, any receiver without a new purple access card will be a brick.


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## djlong (Jul 8, 2002)

Sigh.. I really DO have to call about replacing my 7200.


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## Zero327 (Oct 10, 2006)

I love these stories. It's like having my own personal ant farm.


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## djlong (Jul 8, 2002)

Has anyone tried to see what E* will offer for old Dishplayers (7100/7200) if you want to go to HD? I'm looking at taking the plunge and finally getting a big screen. I looked at the comparison PDF that I found in another thread - very well done I might add - and I think I want a pair of 612s.

Now, I don't expect to get everything I want for free - I'll be wanting to go from one outlet to two and I'm certainly willing to make some sort of commitment, having been an E* customer for over 8 years.

Anyone been down this road yet or am I about to be the guinea pig?


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## JohnMI (Apr 2, 2002)

So -- when I did the upgrade to the 722 in November, I took them up on their offer of HBO for 3 months free. Can anyone refresh my memory on if I have to call to make sure that doesn't renew and/or switch to paid service when my 3 months is up?

And, if I do have to call, anyone know if I can call NOW and tell them that I don't want to pay for it when it expires -- and then just continue getting it until the free cutoff? (I.e. so I don't have to worry about canceling it just in time to not have to pay anything?)

- John...


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

Yes, you have to call, and no, they can't put in an auto-shut-off; you'll have to call on the date you want to shut it off. If you go a few days in to the next month, they'll prorate the monthly fee.


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

IIP said:


> Yes, you have to call, and no, they can't put in an auto-shut-off; you'll have to call on the date you want to shut it off. If you go a few days in to the next month, they'll prorate the monthly fee.


Does he have to pay the $5 downgrade of services fee?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

SaltiDawg said:


> Does he have to pay the $5 downgrade of services fee?


Not on one of the "special offers" such as the free for three month deals.

If he let it ride four or five months I'd expect the fee ... but with some complaining ("I forgot to cancel") it could be waived.


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## BBCInc (Oct 11, 2008)

Had a minor audio issue with the replacement 522 I got for my owned 721 and sometime during the ensuing back and forth with the Dish CSRs, one stuck me with a "gotcha" monthly DVR fee and additional receiver fee that no one in the chain other than [email protected] could correct.

Just a word to the wise, after only four months almost everyone at Dish has a bad case of amnesia about the urgent swap... One CSR even told me I had agreed to upgrade to a two tuner receiver in going from the 721 to the 522 and that that was why the fees were added (totally false, I agreed to the terms of the Urgent Letter deal everyone else agreed to). She offered to upgrade me, at the usual additional cost of course, from my present AT250 to AE, to avoid the fee. A supervisor could only offer to research the issue.


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

BBCInc said:


> Just a word to the wise, after only four months almost everyone at Dish has a bad case of amnesia about the urgent swap...


Do be fair, with the turn-over rate typical of most call-centers, at least half of the CSRs will be new since 4 months ago...


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## BBCInc (Oct 11, 2008)

IIP said:


> Do be fair, with the turn-over rate typical of most call-centers, at least half of the CSRs will be new since 4 months ago...


Surely, with all the wheeling and dealing going on involving these swaps, the CSRs have some kind of written record to fall back on, perhaps in the form of account notes, so they don't have to depend on retention, non-fading memories, etc.


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