# How to get an HR20 instead of HR21?



## Runch Machine (Nov 20, 2005)

My parents are replacing two HR10-250s with two new HD DVRs. They only want HR20s because they need over the air tuners so they don't lose their signal when it rains really hard. They record a lot of local channel programming.

Their installer from Directv is scheduled for this Saturday. 

Is there any way to be sure they get HR20s? They really don't want HR21s. 

By the way, I stopped by Costco today and all the HD DVRs were HR21s.


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

see if you can call the install company and ask them..


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

Runch Machine said:


> My parents are replacing two HR10-250s with two new HD DVRs. They only want HR20s because they need over the air tuners so they don't lose their signal when it rains really hard. They record a lot of local channel programming.
> 
> Their installer from Directv is scheduled for this Saturday.
> 
> ...


Short of acuiring them from a 3rd party or as Houskamp said, call the installation company, no not really. It will all come down to what is in the distribution chain to your installation company.


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## waynenm (Oct 31, 2006)

RobertE said:


> Short of acuiring them from a 3rd party or as Houskamp said, call the installation company, no not really. It will all come down to what is in the distribution chain to your installation company.


This is turning into a nightmare. We all need OTA. Especially those of us in Lin markets that won't deal with D*. OTA needs to be an ongoing option. What will it take to get D* to get this as reality? Shall we bypass the HR-20 and get another HD recorder specifically for OTA?


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## narcolept (Mar 1, 2007)

Runch Machine said:


> My parents are replacing two HR10-250s with two new HD DVRs. They only want HR20s because they need over the air tuners so they don't lose their signal when it rains really hard. They record a lot of local channel programming.
> 
> Their installer from Directv is scheduled for this Saturday.
> 
> ...


As RobertE recommended, your best bet would be to call the install company and request one -- If they can't guarantee it call up D* and see if you can work a credit on a local purchase. Circuit City is said to have them in stock most places, and if you're already getting two, D* may work a deal with credits for them to offset the out of pocket expense of going to store and buying them. Even if it's not a one time credit, they're going to end up spending that money in a few months of programming anyway.


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## wjbjr (Jun 6, 2007)

bestbuy.com has HR20

http://tinyurl.com/37c3wg


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## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

And this is what I was saying before. That little OTA tuner may have saved Directv a couple of dollars. How much do they pay for an installer to come out and install a receiver, and the customer refuses that particular receiver?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

waynenm said:


> This is turning into a nightmare. We all need OTA. Especially those of us in Lin markets that won't deal with D*. OTA needs to be an ongoing option. What will it take to get D* to get this as reality? Shall we bypass the HR-20 and get another HD recorder specifically for OTA?


"We" all?
------

What will it take for those that are on the OTA kick, to understand... that in the "big picture" OTA may not be that critical as you may think it is.

And yes... honestly.

If OTA is that critical to you... get another HD recorder specifically for OTA.
Then you are in control of your viewing preference... instead of relying on one company to provide you everything you want (which may be different from someone else) in one box.


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## Kurgan (Oct 10, 2007)

I would think making the demand that the receiver has an over-the-air tuner would facilitate you getting an HR20 instead of an HR21. If that's not the case, then I would go to your local electronics store to find an HR20 that's still on the shelf.


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## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> "We" all?
> ------
> 
> What will it take for those that are on the OTA kick, to understand... that in the "big picture" OTA may not be that critical as you may think it is.
> ...


Are there any OTA DVRs, besides Tivo, and don't require a computer? I just checked Best Buy's, Circuit City's, and Crutchfield's sites, and none of them have any.
And then there's the other problem for me, if I used OTA. I want it all integrated in one box, or I have NO interest in it.
However, I've only used Directv HD DVRs. Do Dish Network's or cable compnies have OTA tuners built into their HD DVRs?


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## islander66 (Oct 16, 2007)

If you call D* they will have all the hardware on your order. Then tell them not to show up without a HR20. You can also get the local installer's number so they also know the deal. 

I once canceled an install because they didn't have a HD DVR and the installer still showed up.


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## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

That's part of the problem. You can order, and they'll show up with an HD DVR. A specific model though, you can't specify.


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## MikeekiM (Oct 1, 2006)

The best way to ensure you get an HR20 is to go out to Best Buy or Costco and buy one...

If you want to negotiate a good price, do so on the phone prior to the purchase and get them to document it in their notes...then when you activate your purchased receiver, they'll apply the discount... That's what they did for me when they had no HR20s in stock and people where scrambling to get them on the retail shelves...

Should work in this case too I suspect...


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## Lee L (Aug 15, 2002)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Then you are in control of your viewing preference... instead of relying on one company to provide you everything you want (which may be different from someone else) in one box.


Good point. However, I'm sure that DirecTV started putting OTA ATSC tuners in because they thought it would help them get more people to use DirecTV and not just because they wanted to make the boxes cost more. They offered the combined box as a convenience and causing some people to need to get their HD Locals form a seperate box now might also cause them to be less "sticky" to DirecTV.


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## narcolept (Mar 1, 2007)

This thread has obviously proved what everyone else already knows.

D* has a room full of people who sit around thinking of ways to screw everyone, and the H21/HR21 are a bright and shining success.

</sarcasm>

Seriously, is there a need for these threads to pop up every other minute? Reread what Earl said, he wouldn't steer you wrong. Maybe he's foreshadowing, or maybe he's just enjoying HD LIL locals and doesn't care so much about you.

There are other options, and a tiny workaround is a small price to pay. For how much people post about hating the 20 series and how it sucks compared to the HR10, they sure seem to be loving them now compared to the 21s, don't they?


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## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

My only complaint is that they're not offering a choice really when ordering. You get what you get, even if you need OTA. If somebody called to order an HD DVR, and the first words out of the CSR's mouth were "Do you need to be able to receive your local channels using an antenna?", and then the CSR could actually select an HR20 or HR21, then everything would be fine.


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## dthreet (Jun 6, 2006)

Runch Machine said:


> My parents are replacing two HR10-250s with two new HD DVRs. They only want HR20s because they need over the air tuners so they don't lose their signal when it rains really hard. They record a lot of local channel programming.
> 
> Their installer from Directv is scheduled for this Saturday.
> 
> ...


On an upgrade I doubt they would have any choice. You usually get what you get. However DirecTV does not want the HR10's back, so this could work out good for them since the HR10's will allow OTA only. They could use the HR10's and an OTA tuner. The only downside is that if the HR10 is not active on their account they can only view OTA channels. They can't record them.


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## Que (Apr 15, 2006)

kturcotte said:


> My only complaint is that they're not offering a choice really when ordering. You get what you get, even if you need OTA. If somebody called to order an HD DVR, and the first words out of the CSR's mouth were "Do you need to be able to receive your local channels using an antenna?", and then the CSR could actually select an HR20 or HR21, then everything would be fine.


Oh, come on this is D* you are talking about...  They do everything backwards. They want everything out the door now! Then they try and fix it later down the road.


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## jhillestad (Jan 13, 2007)

Runch Machine said:


> My parents are replacing two HR10-250s with two new HD DVRs. They only want HR20s because they need over the air tuners so they don't lose their signal when it rains really hard. They record a lot of local channel programming.
> 
> Their installer from Directv is scheduled for this Saturday.
> 
> ...


Why replace the HR10-250's ? KEEP THEM - use them - enjoy them. ADD the HR21 to your setup (hdmi switcher if needed) this way you get your OTA and TIVO ! plus you can record a lot more stuff!

Keeping the hr10 would only mean an addition $5 slave per unit.... so tell the installer to hook a zinwell and run some more cables because your keeping your tivo's. Especially for over the air.


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## MikeR7 (Jun 17, 2006)

I was in the Best Buy last Saturday in Wausau and they had equal #'s of both the HR20 and HR21 on the shelf display. I don't know why anyone around here would want a HR21 though as none of our locals are available from DIRECTV in HD yet. I suppose someone with Charter lifeline might though.


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## Splendor (Apr 17, 2007)

jhillestad said:


> Why replace the HR10-250's ? KEEP THEM - use them - enjoy them. ADD the HR21 to your setup (hdmi switcher if needed) this way you get your OTA and TIVO ! plus you can record a lot more stuff!
> 
> Keeping the hr10 would only mean an addition $5 slave per unit.... so tell the installer to hook a zinwell and run some more cables because your keeping your tivo's. Especially for over the air.


That's an extra $60 a year for each IRD. There are a lot of people that could put that money to better use.


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## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

wjbjr said:


> bestbuy.com has HR20
> 
> http://tinyurl.com/37c3wg


Yes, but searching for store availability using my ZIP code resulted in six "unavailables"


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

billsharpe said:


> Yes, but searching for store availability using my ZIP code resulted in six "unavailables"


Have them ship it to you then?


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## BkwSoft (Oct 18, 2007)

Splendor said:


> That's an extra $60 a year for each IRD. There are a lot of people that could put that money to better use.


Not to mention the power for the extra receivers/dvrs would consume.


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## mpoyner (Aug 17, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> "We" all?
> ------
> 
> What will it take for those that are on the OTA kick, to understand... that in the "big picture" OTA may not be that critical as you may think it is.
> ...


While it is true that not all of us need OTA (I don't. I'd rather have an HR21.), I think this is a ridiculous response.

He's not asking for a single box to provide him with a fresh shave and pressed pants, in addition to his DirecTV channels. He's simply asking for it to allow him to get his OTA channels along with DirecTV channels, which all of us can currently do if we have HR20s.

I love what this site has become, and I love that you are committed to doing what you're doing for us here, Earl, but sometimes your responses to criticism directed at DTV decisions is completely one-sided. That was an unfair response.

Most HD boxes in this industry are made so that folks can get both off-air and off-satellite, so it's not like he's requesting something crazy.


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## looney2ns (Sep 20, 2007)

For MANY folks, those that don't bother to login to forums like this, taking the OTA tuners out of the box, and making them use another solution would add enough confusion to their setup, they wouldn't use it at all. Not everyone is as techno savy as this crowd is, actually most people arn't.

My neighbors are great example of the average Joe, if it has much more than an on and off switch, they are lost.

It has to be as simple as can be or they can't operate it. Remember all the vcr's flashing 12:00 for years?


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## Lee L (Aug 15, 2002)

My point exactly. Someone or some group at DirecTV (and also at Dish at the same time) decided that for ease of use and better customer satisfaction, they needed to install OTA tuners in their boxes. The only reason customers have to expect this is because of what the Sat companies did (and the fact that it makes sense to get all your programming from one box, whether it all somes down via satellite or a combination).

Not having an easy way of determining whether the cutomer can even get HD locals via DirecTV is going to hurt them long run IMO. Sure, it may not be a huge number of people, but how much would adding a feild to check for OTA or not to theor CRM systems and order systems cost? Why make things harder without a plan?


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## Jason Whiddon (Aug 17, 2006)

Im very surprised(after all the hoopla when the HR20 first came out and the tuners werent enabled) the only replies you get out of people like Earl when complaining about the HR21 is "oh so sorry".

I understand not biting the hand that feeds, but come one Earl you gotta admit its not a smart move on D*'s part. Many people that have sat live in the boonies and wont get HD locals for awhile. 

The ViP722 is a slightly better DVR than the HR20, but the ViP722 is a MUCH better dvr than the HR21.

I personaly feel its a bad decision.

Now if they supposedly have this "fix" which is probably requires us to buy something else for it to work, fine. But WHY WHY WHY, once again release a half arse box thats going to need something later.

At the end of the day, WHAT IS THE POINT OF THE HR21? The HR20 is just fine.


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## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

And there's still the problem that they don't offer ALL of the digital locals. Until ALL digital channels from ALL markets are available, an OTA tuner is going to be a necessity for some people.


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## jhillestad (Jan 13, 2007)

Splendor said:


> That's an extra $60 a year for each IRD. There are a lot of people that could put that money to better use.


$60(each) for 2 recording HD tivo's is a bargain considering the stand alone cable tivo is like $13 a month per receiver. PLUS its SOLVES their problem. They could get the hr21 and have no HD ota but for the extra $60 - I would take the 2 tivo's and record 4 count'em 4 hd shows at the same time! Thats smoking! Did I mention it solves the problem that dtv created by removing the ota on the hr21 and discontinuing the hr20. This is a real problem that a lot of people will be facing... I would never give up a hd tivo for an hr21 its easier just to add the hr21 into the fold until this whole ota stuff is figured out.

If they cant get an hr20 how will their problem be solved ? pay the $60 and be happy and record like a maniac or buy a stand alone tivo and pay the tivo monthly fee - no thanks I'd rather pay dtv the extra $5 .

DTV created this mess by castrating the hr21 - keep the tivo's you'll be sorry if you dont.


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## pecocus (Feb 13, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> "We" all?
> ------
> 
> What will it take for those that are on the OTA kick, to understand... that in the "big picture" OTA may not be that critical as you may think it is.
> ...


You know, OTA is a "nice to have" for me, but Earl's answer seems a bit harsh. You could just as easily ask, "What will it take for D* to understand that a lot of people need/want OTA?"

OTA is not a money maker for D*... understood. It costs more for D* to include an OTA tuner in the box... understood. If that is the complete "big picture", then I guess we'll have no OTA. But somewhere in there, you need to factor in customer satisfaction. I'm assuming D* feels like they have enough of the country covered with LIL to catch the majority of people. But I would argue that they aren't considering the fact that many locals (PBS, CW, etc) are not covered by LIL.

All I'm saying is that the decision that OTA is not needed is not as much of a no-brainer as D* (and Earl?) seems to think.


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## Jason Whiddon (Aug 17, 2006)

I have NO problem with paying extra for OTA access on a DVR, or to buy an accessory. But to release a box without a fix and to only say "we will have a fix" is irritating.

Before they make the move, they should have pieces in place.


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

Earl Bonovich said:


> "We" all?
> ------
> 
> What will it take for those that are on the OTA kick, to understand... that in the "big picture" OTA may not be that critical as you may think it is.


I think by "we" he was referring to him and to his parents.


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## Splendor (Apr 17, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> "We" all?
> ------
> 
> What will it take for those that are on the OTA kick, to understand... that in the "big picture" OTA may not be that critical as you may think it is.


What will it take for those that think OTA is unnecessary to understand that they don't speak for everyone and that just because you don't think it's critical doesn't mean it isn't? :nono2:


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## darekd (Oct 11, 2006)

I moved back to Directv in September. I would not even consider Directv if they had not offered receiver with OTA. The fact that the receiver had two tuners tipped the scale. It is absolutely ridicules to suggest that people get additional DVR for OTA. I just spent hundreds of dollars to for the privilege to lease a box and you suggest to spend more money on yet another box??? I don't think so.


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

Instead of engaging in further pointless debate and continuing to beat a dead horse, here are some instructions for you to make sure you have the highest likelyhood of actually getting either an HR20-700 or HR20-100.

You may have to change your install date, if the installer doesn't have the box you want.
==============================================
I have had an HR20-700 over a year. I just got an HR20-100 yesterday. Both do OTA nicely. If you are determined, careful and patient, you can get either a -700 or -100.

After you order, be sure to follow up and be specific with the installer. Get the installer company's phone number. Call them and tell them you absolutely must have OTA, and therefore you will only accept install on an HR20-700 or HR20-100. Tell them if they show up with an HR21, you won't accept the install and they will have wasted a trip.

After you order your receiver from D* (*be absolutely certain to get the install company's phone number*), call the install company and tell them about the absolute necessity for either a -700 or -100. Set something up with them so they hold one for you when they get either in.

I did this and it worked. They did forget to bring the dish (duh)...or at least they said it wasn't on their order. After some "firm" conversation, we called D* and they said the dish was on the order. Installer then grabbed a spare he had in the truck and put it on for me.

Install went well, except I had to troubleshoot the bad BBC that came with the new receiver for him. He didn't know the "symptoms" of a bad bbc.

Whether or not you get an OTA capable D* model is more a function of what you work out with the install company, since D* will not commit to which receiver they are sending/authorizing. If you are determined, follow up appropriately and patient, you just might get what you want.

*Don't leave it to chance. The odds are not with you at the moment*


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## Runch Machine (Nov 20, 2005)

I will call the installer tomorrow and see what happens. What Earl is missing is that my parents enjoy TV but it is not the big deal to them like it is to most of the people on this forum. For my parents, who are 72, to switch between 2 different DVRs, one for OTA and the other for satellite is asking a lot. 

Most of what they watch are on the 4 major networks. If they can't get the HR20 they will cancel Directv and buy an HD Tivo. By the way, a three year service agreement with Tivo is $300. That comes out to $8.33 a month. It is very affordable and an easy solution. 

Losing local channels during heavy rain storms is simply a deal killer. The stress this would cause is just not worth it.


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## eibook (Jan 5, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> "We" all?
> ------
> 
> What will it take for those that are on the OTA kick, to understand... that in the "big picture" OTA may not be that critical as you may think it is.
> ...


If D* wants that badly to get OTA tuners out of their boxes, make a deal with Lin so I don't need an OTA tuner. Or, stop advertising (at least in my area) that they carry my HD Locals. In Buffalo, WIVB-DT our Lin owned CBS affiliate is kind of a big thing since most Bills games are on CBS.


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## ToddD (Jun 14, 2006)

Just to add to this ...If you go look at the Solid Signal Site you'll note that they show HR 20's as Discontinued and out of stock....they have replaced it with the HR 21....


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

I must have OTA for my HD. All of the nebraska HD channels wont be on the dish for a long time (omaha and lincoln).

I called Direct TV on the install line requested Two HR20s
I also got the install company name and asked again.

Both times I asked real nice and explained why.

Guess what, Two new HR20s. The installer said they keep plenty back for special OTA install requests.


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## tschwenke (Nov 6, 2007)

scottchez said:


> I must have OTA for my HD. All of the nebraska HD channels wont be on the dish for a long time (omaha and lincoln).
> 
> I called Direct TV on the install line requested Two HR20s
> I also got the install company name and asked again.
> ...


I received my HR20 yesterday after a special request to not have the HR21. One tech was in training and he was being told that some want it in my area as I get two cities HD locals with my antenna and most weekends have more choice on what NFL game I watch.

I have no problem with D* saving money on recievers, but they MUST keep the one with the OTA around for that 10% that want OTA. On thing they don't seem to understand is that 10%, when made happy, are very good advertisers for them.

[thread jack]now the HR20 seems pretty nice in my limited experience and seem to be listening to the customer, so come on get DLB!!![/thread jack]


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## Jason Whiddon (Aug 17, 2006)

Heres an idea. Why not only sell the HR21 in markets where you have hd lils?


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## jwanner (Jul 27, 2007)

I'll trade you. My HR20-100s is only 4 months old.


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## Matt9876 (Oct 11, 2007)

Big meeting with D* rep over this H21,HR21 no OTA thing.

In our case we were told to expect our HD locals during the first few months of 2008.

Not exactly what I wanted to here but on the flip side it will make my job a bit more easy not dealing with a UHF antenna install on every HD upgrade. 

Matt


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## lostman72 (Nov 28, 2005)

MikeekiM said:


> The best way to ensure you get an HR20 is to go out to Best Buy or Costco and buy one...
> 
> If you want to negotiate a good price, do so on the phone prior to the purchase and get them to document it in their notes...then when you activate your purchased receiver, they'll apply the discount... That's what they did for me when they had no HR20s in stock and people where scrambling to get them on the retail shelves...
> 
> Should work in this case too I suspect...


If you can go to Costco. They are cheaper and you grap the box pay and walk out. If you buy at Bestbuy they make you sign crap and make a big deal before you walk out of the store. Costco is the only place you walk in and pay and walk out. The funny thing about Costco is they don't even write the ser# down. I don't know how they keep track. I now my membership shows I bought one, but that's all they know.


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## jblasbalg (Dec 22, 2005)

hasan said:


> Instead of engaging in further pointless debate and continuing to beat a dead horse, here are some instructions for you to make sure you have the highest likelyhood of actually getting either an HR20-700 or HR20-100.
> 
> You may have to change your install date, if the installer doesn't have the box you want.
> ==============================================
> ...


Sorry for the naive questions, but I just ordered my new HD-DVR and requested the HR20, but obviously they aren't guaranteeing antyhing.

How do I know if need OTA channels? Some posts are inferring that OTA may not be required in some markets? Also, if I want OTA access, and I get an HR20, is there anything else that I need to go buy? Do I need to supply an antenna to the installer?


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

jblasbalg said:


> Sorry for the naive questions, but I just ordered my new HD-DVR and requested the HR20, but obviously they aren't guaranteeing antyhing.
> 
> How do I know if need OTA channels? Some posts are inferring that OTA may not be required in some markets? Also, if I want OTA access, and I get an HR20, is there anything else that I need to go buy? Do I need to supply an antenna to the installer?


If you're truly in Boston as your location states, then you do not need OTA unless you want some of the sub-channels.


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## marty45714 (Dec 16, 2006)

I agree with this post. I am in a small market whose stations are not carried as DTV locals. We are a Nielsen market, but one above # 200. I really rely on my HR-20 to record my local news and NBC programming from this station via OTA and don't know what I'd do without it!



mpoyner said:


> While it is true that not all of us need OTA (I don't. I'd rather have an HR21.), I think this is a ridiculous response.
> 
> He's not asking for a single box to provide him with a fresh shave and pressed pants, in addition to his DirecTV channels. He's simply asking for it to allow him to get his OTA channels along with DirecTV channels, which all of us can currently do if we have HR20s.
> 
> ...


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## jblasbalg (Dec 22, 2005)

Doug Brott said:


> If you're truly in Boston as your location states, then you do not need OTA unless you want some of the sub-channels.


I'm actually in Natick, about 25 miles west of Boston...does that change anything?

Also, if I get the HR20, do I need to supply an antenna to the installer? How much do they cost? If there is another place that I can find these answers, I apologize in advance for posting here. Most of the places I've searched kind of assume some knowledge that unfortunately, I don't [yet] have.


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## jblasbalg (Dec 22, 2005)

Doug Brott said:


> If you're truly in Boston as your location states, then you do not need OTA unless you want some of the sub-channels.


And I also read that the HR20 has the On Demand functionality, but the HR21 does not...is that true?


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## jake14mw (Oct 5, 2007)

I'm in a market where we only get 3 HD locals via D*. I'll try to make this short since we've all been through it before. If D* thinks that not providing a choice for an OTA enabled receiver is best for their business, that's their decision. I think if they didn't have so many markets where they don't provide the 4 or 5 biggest HD channels, it would make more sense.

If someone wants OTA for a backup, then I think it's justifyable to tell them they have to buy an additional gadget, or maybe another receiver, but not for channels that cable provides.

Let's say that the percentage of people who want OTA is either 5% or 30%. I think that's a reasonable range. If it's 30%, then that percentage of customers not getting what they want would be too high for it to make sense for D*. If it's 5%, then would it cost D* that much to have receivers for that small percentage? If it does cost that much, then why not put a premium price on it?

Again, if they want to transition away, that's fine, but I think they really botched the transition here.

I really respect Earl for all that he has done for this forum and DirecTV. I think he literally has been personally responsible for helping make the HR20 a really nice HD DVR. He has provided a ton of information to many people, and I for one appreciate it. I have however, found the tone of his responses overall to this topic to be annoying. This has obviously hit a nerve with him. I understand it's tough to listen to endless bashing of every new little problem that D* has, but that's the nature of forums like this. Oh, well, everyone has something that's going to get to them.  

My guess as to the percentage of people ordering an HD DVR that care whether it has OTA, 13%. The percentage that care enough to go with another provider, 4%. I also believe that those people are the more desirable ones that have higher than average monthly bills. Just my guesses based on not that much info.


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## sbl (Jul 21, 2007)

jblasbalg said:


> And I also read that the HR20 has the On Demand functionality, but the HR21 does not...is that true?


Natick is the Boston area market. DirecTV offers channels 4, 5, 7 and 25 in HD. I expect some others to come in the future (PBS seems to be a problem everywhere.) If you want other HD locals, you'll need an antenna and an HR20 (or whatever the future "solution" is going to be for the HR21.)

On Demand is coming to the HR21 - perhaps when it does it will actually be worth something, which I don't find it to be so far on my HR20.


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## Phil T (Mar 25, 2002)

I have a new HR21 and a HR20. The HR21 is on my main living room set and I just set up 13 season passes on it last night. So far I do not miss OTA on the box, since I lose 3 subchannels and gain 50+ HD channels. DOD is not a big deal and I assume the HR 21 will get it soon. My hope is that the HR 21 is a stable HD DVR and the other features will come in time.

My story would be different if I didn't have HD locals on the sat.


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## AZ_Engineer (Nov 14, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> "We" all?
> ------
> 
> What will it take for those that are on the OTA kick, to understand... that in the "big picture" OTA may not be that critical as you may think it is.
> ...


Wow, how incredibly inconvenient. I regulary watch 8 different OTA channels and we get many more I don't watch DirectTV will not ever carry all of them, and their picture quality is lower than OTA. I've had DTivo with OTA since the first Philips DSR6000. I've had 2 HR10-250s since they first shipped. I've enjoyed a single recorded show list for that entire time. These suggestions to have multiple units are either from people who don't have OTA available, or zealots who have multiple DVRs per TV.

Really, think about it. Is two separate DSRs, two remotes, and changing inputs on the TV all the time even close to integrated OTA? If yes, then what planet are you from????


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## BopMan (Nov 23, 2007)

Phil T said:


> I have a new HR21 and a HR20. The HR21 is on my main living room set and I just set up 13 season passes on it last night. So far I do not miss OTA on the box, since I lose 3 subchannels and gain 50+ HD channels. DOD is not a big deal and I assume the HR 21 will get it soon. My hope is that the HR 21 is a stable HD DVR and the other features will come in time.
> 
> My story would be different if I didn't have HD locals on the sat.


You got me a little concerned with the HR20 in your post. It sounds like your saying that the HR20 can not receive the same number of HD channels as the HR21. I do need the OTA but want all the HD content I'm paying for. I guess I need to know more about what subchannels are. Am I reading you right about the HD content between the two receivers?


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## BopMan (Nov 23, 2007)

Phil T said:


> I have a new HR21 and a HR20. The HR21 is on my main living room set and I just set up 13 season passes on it last night. So far I do not miss OTA on the box, since I lose 3 subchannels and gain 50+ HD channels. DOD is not a big deal and I assume the HR 21 will get it soon. My hope is that the HR 21 is a stable HD DVR and the other features will come in time.
> 
> My story would be different if I didn't have HD locals on the sat.


You got me a little concerned with the HR20 in your post. It sounds like your saying that the HR20 can not receive the same number of HD channels as the HR21. I do need the OTA but want all the HD content I'm paying for. Am I reading you right?


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

The HR21 is identical to the HR20 in everything except OTA. It does not have OTA capabilities.


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## BopMan (Nov 23, 2007)

Lord Vader I'm concerned about receiving all he HD channals with my HR20 that I have not activated yet. It sounded like Phil T. was saying that having OTA would limit the number of HD channels on the HR20. I've read a lot of information but I have not read anything that makes this statement. I am reading Phil T. wrong?


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

Yes, you are. OTA and all the other HD channels are independent of each other. On the HR21s, there IS no OTA tuner; hence, no concern over this at all. The receiver works just like the HR20 series then. All the HD you get on the HR20s you'd get on the HR21s.

With the HR20s, you just get the addition of OTA capabilities.


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## Phil T (Mar 25, 2002)

I have a year old HR20 and a new HR21 that I just upgraded from a HR10-250.
The HR20 and the HR10-250 have OTA. The HR21 does not.

Here in Denver the OTA situation is poor due to fights over building a new tower that has gone on for years. You must have a roof mounted antenna to get the low power OTA.

What I was trying to say is I lose only a few OTA subchannels (NBC Weather Plus, WB-HD, and 3 PBS subchannels) but I gain the new channels DirectV added this month, upgrading to the HR21. DirecTV has my NBC, CBS, ABC, and Fox locals on the satellite, so for me, right now it is not a big deal.

I also feel there is a good chance PBS and WB local HD could be added before analog shut off, so it just is not an issue for me right now.


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## BopMan (Nov 23, 2007)

Sounds good... thanks for the update. I just didn't understand Phil's comment about losing "3 subchannels and gain 50+ HD channels" in his post. If he is just saying that he lost his locals on the HR21 but added HD then I get it.


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## jkocher (Jun 7, 2006)

As a major custom electronics designer/installation company and a DirecTV reseller since the beginning, I have to say we have finally had it. OTA is a necessity. Our high end clients have to have backup for those times the sat is weathered out, not to mention the fact we get a much better picture from OTA. But many of our clients have anywhere from nine to sixteen receivers. Adding in separate OTA receivers and installing the switching and reprogramming their control systems will be major expenses. And now this weekend many are reporting 771 errors. And DirecTV still can't give us any info about the "Pro" receiver they showed us at CEDIA in Sept. and promised for December. We are ready to throw in the towel and start specing only cable with HD TIVOs, which have their own problems of course, but will cost us and our clients much less time and money in the long run.

Jake, your speculation is partly correct- the people who need OTA are the top tier of clients-but you under-estimate the percentages. Many spend enormous amounts on programming and leases. Some of ours are even Platinum clients- and they deserve much better service than DirecTV is providing us. Their tech support and communications for dealers is terrible. I'd say I hope someone from DirecTV is looking in here, but even if they are, I'm sure this won't register with them.


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## TexARC (Nov 20, 2007)

This message was very helpful, great idea....


hasan said:


> ......Install went well, except I had to troubleshoot the bad BBC that came with the new receiver for him. He didn't know the "symptoms" of a bad bbc.


 WHAT IS A "BBC" ? and how does one know if what one has is "bad"? it makes a puddle on the carpet in the living room? 

Thanks...
Incidentally, the installer is supposed to arrive tomorrow to install. Am I correct in understanding that if I have the latest WD "green" 1 terabyte drive in a KingWin external eSata drive case ($14 at Frys), the HR20/HR21 will recognize the drive, format it on it's own, and begin to use it? IOW, I do not have to format or prepare the WD drive?


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## philslc (Dec 2, 2006)

Phil T said:


> What I was trying to say is I lose only a few OTA subchannels (NBC Weather Plus, WB-HD, and 3 PBS subchannels) but I gain the new channels DirectV added this month, upgrading to the HR21. DirecTV has my NBC, CBS, ABC, and Fox locals on the satellite, so for me, right now it is not a big deal.


The thread is comparing the HR20 and HR21.

You don't gain anything with the HR21 over the HR20. You do lose OTA. All the new channels that can be received with the HR21 can also be received with the HR20.


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## BopMan (Nov 23, 2007)

philslc said:


> The thread is comparing the HR20 and HR21.
> 
> You don't gain anything with the HR21 over the HR20. You do lose OTA. All the new channels that can be received with the HR21 can also be received with the HR20.


That's all I wanted to know, Thanks!


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## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

jake14mw said:


> Let's say that the percentage of people who want OTA is either 5% or 30%. I think that's a reasonable range. If it's 30%, then that percentage of customers not getting what they want would be too high for it to make sense for D*. If it's 5%, then would it cost D* that much to have receivers for that small percentage? If it does cost that much, then why not put a premium price on it?
> 
> Again, if they want to transition away, that's fine, but I think they really botched the transition here.


It's 36%. That's the number of people in this country who currently can't get one or more of the four major networks via DirecTV. It's 100% if you include PBS and CW. That doesn't even count people who "want" OTA but really don't "need" it.

I think people would want to record HD versions of NBC, CBS, ABC, and FOX. When I look at the Neilson ratings each week, all of the shows in the top 10 and almost all in the top 30 are network shows. Seems like you'd want to be able to record at least one of the shows everyone else is watching. Unless DirecTV thinks that people tend to watch these shows live anyway. But I use a DVR because, well, I have a life. I'm not always around to watch these shows live. If I can't record the 30 most-watched shows with my DVR, why do I even have it?

I agree the transition was botched. All they had to do was be able to guarantee an HR20 to people who wanted or needed OTA, or at least ensure a person could go buy one locally (especially in markets where they know they have a problem), and the problem would be solved.


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## gopher_guy (Nov 19, 2007)

So last night I finally got my order in through D* for the HD upgrade. New dish, install, HD-DVR, regular HD receiver, free HD/HBO/Starz for 6 months. They gave me a $200 credit on the HD DVR. The other HD receiver I got for free. So a total of $125 shipped or something along those lines for everything.

Would I be able to go to Circuit City or something and buy an HR20 (to make sure that's what I get) and tell D* to only send the regular HD receiver and give me a $200 credit?


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## kokishin (Sep 30, 2006)

Earl:

Given enough time, every channel and all content will be broadcast in HD (I look forward to Proactive commercials in HD so I can see the semi-famous with all their glorious blemishes in HD  ). All channels will be carried by D*, E*, FIOS, Comcast, Time Warner, etc. (As the bandwidth of the internet increases over time, it will probably become the "pipe" that all content is transmitted over). But not any time in the immediate future.

There are many of us (not all) who don't want to wait for that unspecified future time when D* starts providing all locals in HD. As previously discussed, many of us (not Bonscott) would like to get PBS in HD now. Many of us would like CW HD now. And we cetainly don't want to purchase a separate system for accessing the HD locals that D* does not provide.

You're "blessed" to get preferential treatment, early access to new equipment (PLEASE sell me one of your SWMs!), and unpublished insights into the future from D*. Given your special relationship with D*, I would appreciate if you would represent the interests of those of us that continue to need OTA tuners and SWMs, until they are no longer needed.

Thank you.



Earl Bonovich said:


> "We" all?
> ------
> 
> What will it take for those that are on the OTA kick, to understand... that in the "big picture" OTA may not be that critical as you may think it is.
> ...


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## zzzzdoc (Jul 19, 2007)

Is there any disadvantage to me getting the HR-20 boxes through Costco, Best Buy, Circuit City, or whoever else I can find them from instead of from DirecTV? Any discounts/free installation/etc.. I would miss?

I will need 4 HR-20s, and a new 5-LNB dish. All replacing present HR-250s.

Must have HR-20 for OTA. I just don't get the feeling I'll get lucky with an installer having 4 HR-20s.


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## mpaquette (Sep 25, 2007)

zzzzdoc said:


> Is there any disadvantage to me getting the HR-20 boxes through Costco, Best Buy, Circuit City, or whoever else I can find them from instead of from DirecTV? Any discounts/free installation/etc.. I would miss?
> 
> I will need 4 HR-20s, and a new 5-LNB dish. All replacing present HR-250s.
> 
> Must have HR-20 for OTA. I just don't get the feeling I'll get lucky with an installer having 4 HR-20s.


I was kind of wondering the same thing. I went to 2 Best Buy's last night, they only had HR21's. I sent an email to Weaknees and they said that I can get an HR20 from them. So I'm trying to decide between getting an HR20 from Weaknees or get an HR21 from DTV and just add a Tivo HD to use with my antenna. I kind of like the idea of being able to record OTA independent of satellite, but don't like the idea of having to switch inputs on the TV and receiver when switch from OTA to satellite.


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## lifelong (Sep 16, 2007)

mpoyner said:


> While it is true that not all of us need OTA (I don't. I'd rather have an HR21.), I think this is a ridiculous response.
> 
> He's not asking for a single box to provide him with a fresh shave and pressed pants, in addition to his DirecTV channels. He's simply asking for it to allow him to get his OTA channels along with DirecTV channels, which all of us can currently do if we have HR20s.
> 
> ...


+1


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## Que (Apr 15, 2006)

mpoyner said:


> While it is true that not all of us need OTA (I don't. I'd rather have an HR21.), I think this is a ridiculous response.
> 
> He's not asking for a single box to provide him with a fresh shave and pressed pants, in addition to his DirecTV channels. He's simply asking for it to allow him to get his OTA channels along with DirecTV channels, which all of us can currently do if we have HR20s.
> 
> ...


To this company he might be. With all (at least in my mind) DirecTV DVRs are going backwards. They are not coming with all the options that we love and are use too. Now I don't know if this is bad marketing or they just want something on the line fast and they will fix it later. Which it looks like they are just throwing them out and dealing with it later down the road. I just hope when it comes to the end and I have to upgrade they have it all worked out by then.


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## MrMolding (Nov 16, 2006)

Even though I didn't really need it, a week of reading these posts drove me to buy the last HR20-700 at my local BB. The box was dented and not sealed, but everything was intact, so we'll see how it works! I think I'll replace my H20 that has the pixelation problems on HD OTA locals. The HR20 does a fantastic job of OTA.


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## VicF (Sep 5, 2006)

In the Sacramento market not all channels are available via D* AND the picture quality of OTA is DEFINATELY superior on OTA! I have far fewer audio sync and pixelation problems with OTA vs D*.

So D* is just giving me one more reason to look at Surewest fiber (local telco) in about a year once they catch up regarding HD and DVR cpabilities. It may not cost D* a large # of customers but it WILL cost them some customers if there is no HD DVR for OTA.


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## zzzzdoc (Jul 19, 2007)

Spent 2 hours in CC trying to buy their two remaining HR20s. Salesman couldn't get purchase through computer. Then supervisor. Then Assistant Manager. Then manager. Then call to corporate headquarters. Then call to DTV.

Left without unit. They were unable to get them entered into their computer, and couldn't sell it to me.

Had a friend check out Costco. 15 units in stock in a pile. Picked them up there, no paperwork, no hassle. In and out in 6 minutes. Oh, and they were $25 cheaper there too.

Amazing.


Now hopefully DTV can arrange dish installation without a problem.


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## digital223 (Dec 19, 2002)

Some members are for ota while some think it is not necessary.
I live very close to all the major networks. My ota reception is far better than E*'s locals.
The FCC has made it manditory for all tv mfr's to include ATSC tuners in thier tv's.
I think that rule should apply to stb's as well.
For example you can still find many LCD, plasma and dvd players/recorders some with and some with out ATSC.
Probably every DBStalk member is aware of what ATSC is. There are a great deal of people that do not. 
If an uneducated individual required ota and ordered a D* subscription, the csr isn't going to mention that fact that there is no ota input. 
That is deceiving the general public. And I think D*is going to lose subs now, and more in the future if the discontinue ota on all their receivers.
Also imho I think ota is very important.


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## sholliday (Dec 3, 2007)

mpaquette said:


> I was kind of wondering the same thing. I went to 2 Best Buy's last night, they only had HR21's. I sent an email to Weaknees and they said that I can get an HR20 from them. So I'm trying to decide between getting an HR20 from Weaknees or get an HR21 from DTV and just add a Tivo HD to use with my antenna. I kind of like the idea of being able to record OTA independent of satellite, but don't like the idea of having to switch inputs on the TV and receiver when switch from OTA to satellite.


I have this setup now, and I think its the absolute best hybrid solution.

I got a free HR2x upgrade from directv (to replace my HR10-250)
I bought a TivoHD with lifetime. Its hooked up to ONLY OTA.

The TivoHD gives me Tivo, which I like. I'm getting used to the HR2x interface, and am not a basher. But I do like Tivo better.

With TivoHD, I also get the Tivo/Amazon/Unbox stuff, so you can download shows over broadband. That's a nice feature to have once in a while.

The HR2x gives me the most HD channels.

But basically, anything Network related ( Smallville for example ) goes on the TivoHD.
Anything non-networked related (ESPN-HD for example) goes on the HR2x.

I miss my HR10-250, but do like the new channels. But I got my "tivo fix" with the TivoHD and OTA.

When friends come over I show them the shows an emphasize that "Every recorded show on this thing (TivoHD) is OTA only".

I've got few friends contemplating getting rid of cable or satellite and going OTA only. I think the TivoHD makes this a possibility.

But I guess I "need" my ESPN-HD, and the likes..so the hybrid solution is the ultimate (IMHO).

As far as switching....its not that big of a deal. With the "Network" or "Non-Network" dividing line, its not hard to get used to. My wife is already used to it, and we've had the HR2x for a very short amount of time.


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## mpaquette (Sep 25, 2007)

sholliday said:


> I have this setup now, and I think its the absolute best hybrid solution.


Yeah, that's the direction I'm leaning. I figured the Tivo would be a temporary solution until a.) they come up with a tuner option for the HR21 or b.) they get my local digital channels up. Use the Tivo for 6-12 months and then Ebay it to recover some of the costs. 90% of what my wife DVR's is on OTA and I'm the exact opposite. There's been plenty of times that we've had conflicts with 1 DVR. This hybrid solution should solve that problem.


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## jake14mw (Oct 5, 2007)

Wow, you guys are willing to shell out the cost of a Tivo HD, and the Tivo subscription fee rather than find an HR20? That input switching would drive me crazy. Do you switch between two remotes too?


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## mpaquette (Sep 25, 2007)

jake14mw said:


> Wow, you guys are willing to shell out the cost of a Tivo HD, and the Tivo subscription fee rather than find an HR20? That input switching would drive me crazy. Do you switch between two remotes too?


The problem is that I can't find one. Checked all 3 Best Buy's in my area, 2 Circuit City's and the local satellite installer. 3 strikes and I'm pretty much out.


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## sandgk (Aug 9, 2007)

sholliday said:


> I've got few friends contemplating getting rid of cable or satellite and going OTA only. I think the TivoHD makes this a possibility.


That's just crazy talk


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## nams (Sep 7, 2007)

mpaquette said:


> The problem is that I can't find one. Checked all 3 Best Buy's in my area, 2 Circuit City's and the local satellite installer. 3 strikes and I'm pretty much out.


Did you try Costco?


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## nickff (Dec 8, 2007)

I just had Directv installed the other day and was surprised that the DVR he brought did not have an OTA tuner. He explained that Directv got tired of people calling with a problem, sending a tech out, and there was nothing wrong with Directv's service. Directv doesn't want to deal with OTA anymore. 

I miss my S3.


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## peter17319 (Dec 11, 2007)

I'm a little confused about something. 

Let's say I go to Costco and buy an HR20 instead of having one sent by DirecTV as part of my signup. Am I going to end up spending more money one way or the other? If I get one myself from Costco, I guess I'll have the extra advantage of owning it outright, and if I just have DirecTV send me one it'll be a lease? Also, will there be any extra headaches when it comes to activation?

Sorry for all the dumb questions. :icon_dumm


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## CPanther95 (Apr 2, 2007)

elwaylite said:


> Heres an idea. Why not only sell the HR21 in markets where you have hd lils?


They'd have to carry all HD LILs in order to justify that. There's no excuse for removing OTA capability, because the result is a reduction in HD channels for most. They don't offer a CW, MNTV, PBS alternative so a move from the Tivo or HR20 to the HR21 is a step backwards in HD content offered.

This isn't going unnoticed at D* though. I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't have an OTA solution within the next few months for the HR21. If not a mod, some sort of add on.


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## Miller_Time (Dec 2, 2007)

Well, I took Hasan's advice and called the installation co. I told the CSR in no uncertian terms that I NEEDED an HR-20 due to the fact that I require OTA capability. She checked the work order and verified that I am set to get an HR-20.

I am still taking the half-day to be home myself to be sure everything goes well. I plan on having the installer verify that he has the HR-20 before anything is unloaded.

My install is set for tomorrow afternoon (the one deviation from Hasan's recommendation as I had already scheduled).


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## RapidRealm (Nov 12, 2007)

Miller_Time said:


> Well, I took Hasan's advice and called the installation co. I told the CSR in no uncertian terms that I NEEDED an HR-20 due to the fact that I require OTA capability. She checked the work order and verified that I am set to get an HR-20.
> 
> I am still taking the half-day to be home myself to be sure everything goes well. I plan on having the installer verify that he has the HR-20 before anything is unloaded.
> 
> My install is set for tomorrow afternoon (the one deviation from Hasan's recommendation as I had already scheduled).


Good luck, that's what I did but it had absolutely no effect. The installer saw that on my work order, but they still must come out to your house even though they don't have any HR-20s. So you end up wasting a 1/2 day for nothing.:bang


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## mpaquette (Sep 25, 2007)

My installation was yesterday. Got an HR-21 even though I requested an HR-20. I know we've heard this one before, but the installer said they (Mastec) were required to send their HR-20's back to Directv a few weeks ago. They can only get HR-21's now. I picked up an HD Tivo for use with the antenna. My wife still misses the Directivo, so this makes her happy. She'll just have to get the hang of changing inputs on the TV when switching between the HR-21 and Tivo.


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## Que (Apr 15, 2006)

Miller_Time said:


> Well, I took Hasan's advice and called the installation co. I told the CSR in no uncertian terms that I NEEDED an HR-20 due to the fact that I require OTA capability. She checked the work order and verified that I am set to get an HR-20.
> 
> I am still taking the half-day to be home myself to be sure everything goes well. I plan on having the installer verify that he has the HR-20 before anything is unloaded.
> 
> My install is set for tomorrow afternoon (the one deviation from Hasan's recommendation as I had already scheduled).


Please let us know how it works out. Thanks!


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## fredandbetty (Jan 28, 2007)

peter17319 said:


> I'm a little confused about something.
> 
> Let's say I go to Costco and buy an HR20 instead of having one sent by DirecTV as part of my signup. Am I going to end up spending more money one way or the other? If I get one myself from Costco, I guess I'll have the extra advantage of owning it outright, and if I just have DirecTV send me one it'll be a lease? Also, will there be any extra headaches when it comes to activation?
> 
> Sorry for all the dumb questions. :icon_dumm


Someone will correct me if i am wrong, but i am almost positive even if you do buy it at Costco, it is STILL a lease ( Unless you paid FULL Price $750.00 or something like that ) for it.

I gotta get a Costco membership, they seem to have more electronics wise than Sams Club...


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## vernonator (Jul 31, 2007)

When I had my recent install (two weeks ago) I specifically told the CSR that I needed an HR20. He noted it on the work order, when the installer got there he had the requested HR20, though he did say he had to go back into the warehouse and dig for one.

If he had not had the HR20 I was planning on refusing the install until he did.


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## sbl (Jul 21, 2007)

fredandbetty said:


> Someone will correct me if i am wrong, but i am almost positive even if you do buy it at Costco, it is STILL a lease ( Unless you paid FULL Price $750.00 or something like that ) for it.


Correct.

FWIW, my local Costco had four HR20-700s on the shelf for $269 as of yesterday.


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## Miller_Time (Dec 2, 2007)

Que said:


> Please let us know how it works out. Thanks!


Well, I'm back at work now. Actually never left the parking lot. My wife called just as I put my seatbelt on to inform me that the installer had arrived and could not get LOS... I will be meeting a supervisor this weekend to get 2nd opinion.

Don't know which receiver he brought. Frankly, I don't want to know.

I'm really bumming. I was _really_ looking forward to all my new HD content tonight.


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

Miller_Time said:


> Well, I'm back at work now. Actually never left the parking lot. My wife called just as I put my seatbelt on to inform me that the installer had arrived and could not get LOS... I will be meeting a supervisor this weekend to get 2nd opinion.
> 
> Don't know which receiver he brought. Frankly, I don't want to know.
> 
> I'm really bumming. I was _really_ looking forward to all my new HD content tonight.


If you currently have a working 3 LNB dish installation, there is NO reason you can't get LOS on a 5 LNB dish. If you currently have a round dish, you may not have LOS on the 119, but you can still get the new HD channels on 103(b) and HD locals (if available) with the 5 LNB dish. You'll be missing a couple of the mpeg2 HD's in the 70's and a few other things you probably won't deem important. You'll have to install it yourself or get your own installer.


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## Miller_Time (Dec 2, 2007)

K4SMX said:


> If you currently have a working 3 LNB dish installation, there is NO reason you can't get LOS on a 5 LNB dish. If you currently have a round dish, you may not have LOS on the 119, but you can still get the new HD channels on 103(b) and HD locals (if available) with the 5 LNB dish. You'll be missing a couple of the mpeg2 HD's in the 70's and a few other things you probably won't deem important. You'll have to install it yourself or get your own installer.


I'm actually a new customer... at least I was hoping to be a new customer. So i'm not sure exactly what I can or can't get. Unfortunately, I hadn't gotten home in time to speak to the tech myself. I plan on spending some quality time with the super this weekend.


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## allenn (Nov 19, 2005)

sbl said:


> Correct.
> 
> FWIW, my local Costco had four HR20-700s on the shelf for $269 as of yesterday.


I live in the Atlanta, GA area, and according to D*, the only HD dvr available is the HR21 which comes out of a warehouse at Stockbridge, GA. Best Buy, Circuit City, and Costco only have HR21-700's. Apparently, D* is rolling out the HR21 by region.


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## bgottschalk (Aug 30, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> "We" all?
> ------
> 
> What will it take for those that are on the OTA kick, to understand... that in the "big picture" OTA may not be that critical as you may think it is.
> ...


Earl,

I have to disagree with you on this one.

I would guess about 80 - 85% of what I watch is on the network channels. I do not currently receive my local channels in HD from the satellite. I agree that if I did it would be no big deal. But for now (and I don't know how long) I do not.

I have to say that if they had hooked me up a few months ago and I had realized that I couldn't get the networks in HD, I would have called and cancelled on the spot. That isn't being dramatic - I'm totally serious. As much as I love D*, if I had to watch 80% of my viewing in painful SD, I would not be with D* right now.

I realize different things are important to different people - I don't really care about DLB (had it with Mediacom - never used it). However, I totally understand it is a BIG deal to a lot of people. Network channels in HD is a BIG deal to me.

And from the number of threads and posts regarding this, it is obviously a BIG deal to a lot of other people.

I agree in the long term, as more people get their locals in HD from the satellite, it will become less important. But until there is a time when 100% of people in all markets can get that, there will be a demand for OTA.

I realize I could get it by hooking the antenna to my TV, but that totally defeats the purpose of having a DVR. I also realize I could spend hundreds of dollars and buy a second DVR just for locals. I'm sorry but that really doesn't sound like a reasonable solution to me. "Honey, if you are watching Grey's Anatomy, you have to use that DVR. If you want to switch to MTV, you'll need to turn that off, turn this on, switch the inputs on the Stereo and the TV..." You can imagine how that would go over.

Sorry about the rant, but I guess I don't understand why this position would be so hard to understand. What I really don't understand is why when D* is producing HR-20's and HR-21's, they wouldn't give people the option when ordering. It seems like it would be so simple...  Maybe I misunderstood something...


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## waynenm (Oct 31, 2006)

I think it's pretty sad that D* isn't moving quickly to answer the need for OTA ATSC capability in their current product. I'm lucky to have an HR-20 I guess.
Corporate wangling aside, I'll do whatever I have to do in order to keep my ability to record OTA. How basic is that?


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## r194ondi (Aug 21, 2007)

My local Costco also had about 8 or so HR20-700 yesterday for $269. The tag on the pallet mentioned the lease. I didn't read it, cuz i know it's leased from all the great info here.

We had a HR20-700 installed in Sept. Then D* kept calling saying how we could have a free additional receiver. Stupidly i bit!! I explained how the local PBS has an HD channel we like and D* doesn't carry it, so i wanted an H20. Well as we all know now, there are no H/HR 20's being installed.

I just talked to a very knowledgeable D* CS person. I told her i wanted to go to Costco and pay $269 for an HR20-700, hook it up myself and deactivate the new H21. She said once i deactivate the H21, in a few weeks a label and instructions will come in the mail on how to return the H21. My 2 year commitment to D* begins when i will activate the 2nd HR20-700. There is NO penalty for me deactivating the H21 and starting up the HR20. We may just keep the H21 and use it in the motorhome, deactivate when it's not going to be in use.

So tomorrow i'm off to Costco....

ron

Edit to clear up some wording.


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## zzzzdoc (Jul 19, 2007)

D* denied that they could get me a HR20 yesterday. So I just had them give me monthly credit and picked up four HR20s at Costco. Only left 11 more on the shelves.

Installer of the new dish was a moron. Took two days and I had to wait over 10 hours for him in total. He came over the first day at 4:45pm to do an install on the roof. Can anyone say "shortest day of the year (almost)". Told me he'd be installing next door and would be by at noon the next day. Again he arrives at 4:45pm. Left a nest of visible wires on the roof. Moron. So now I have to go back up the roof and reterminate the cables that this guy wouldn't make neat. Silly me, I thought they were better than the cable guys.

Oh well, at least I have my new HD channels, and HR-20s.


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## dodge boy (Mar 31, 2006)

Once the dish is installed and the wiring ran, refuse the DVR, and do not activate any service. I would imagine then that they would deal with you better to get you the receiver you want/need. After all that "free" work is done, D* still has to pay the installer.


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## HD AV (Nov 22, 2006)

I have referred 2 friends to D* within the last 2 weeks and specifically requested an HR 20 for one and and H20 for the other. I made a point of explaining that we do not get HD Locals from D* and that OTA was a must to get them to switch from cable (which provides locals in HD) and that if they could not deliver the new sub would not cancel cable. Guess what? Both got OTA boxes! It's not a question of can you get HR20s or H20s, it's only if D* believes it in THEIR best interest. Each time the prospective customer called with my referral, I was there to talk to the CS that took the order and made it very clear that if they did not get an OTA receiver, they did not get a new sub. It has worked so far.
Earl, I, too, appreciate all you have done for us, but don't underestimate the numbers of subs that would not be with D* if not for the OTA capability. If anything happens to my HR20 or H20 and I can not get a replacemet with OTA D* and I will part company and I have been a sub since 1995.


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## awoehler (Jan 2, 2008)

When they set me up with an HR21, and I realized it didn't have an OTA, I sent them an email and they sent me an HR20. Right now, three of the four Digital PBS signals I get OTA (and D* doesn't carry) are showing HD content.


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## Ed Snape (Sep 26, 2007)

awoehler said:


> When they set me up with an HR21, and I realized it didn't have an OTA, I sent them an email and they sent me an HR20. Right now, three of the four Digital PBS signals I get OTA (and D* doesn't carry) are showing HD content.


When did they send it? Today, I pleaded with D* over telephone and they absolutely refused to send me an HR20. Earlier, the local installer had showed up with an HR21 and said they had no HR20s and had not seen one for some weeks.

Does anyone have the key to getting a leased HR20 instead of an HR21?

I don't want to buy one, because I have negotiated a free leased unit from D*. (except for monthly lease fee.).


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## techm8n (Jan 3, 2008)

I just got dtv installed on 12/27/07 and the installer brought two HR20s. I told him that I wanted HR21s only. He had to come back the next day to do the install and get me the HR21s. 

They do still have HR20s depending on where you are. But he said that they were trying to install the HR20s first until they ran out then start installing HR21s only.

I should have asked for one HR20 instead of two HR21s so I can get OnDemand added to my account. One of my HR21 has the latest CE but still no DoD.


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## graffixx (Apr 25, 2007)

philslc said:


> The thread is comparing the HR20 and HR21.
> 
> You don't gain anything with the HR21 over the HR20. You do lose OTA. All the new channels that can be received with the HR21 can also be received with the HR20.
> 
> ...


I currently lease an HR20. I'll be moving my service into an area which I will NOT be brining the OTA antena with me.

Do I just need to re-run the set up wizard on the HR20 and NOT choose the OTA option at the new place?
I should be able to get local HD channels thru DirecTV, right?


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## say-what (Dec 14, 2006)

graffixx said:


> I currently lease an HR20. I'll be moving my service into an area which I will NOT be brining the OTA antena with me.
> 
> Do I just need to re-run the set up wizard on the HR20 and NOT choose the OTA option at the new place?
> I should be able to get local HD channels thru DirecTV, right?


In the menu for "Satellite and Antenna setup" there is an option under the Antenna settings to reset the antenna settings (forget exactly what it is called). This will eliminate OTA from the guide until you rerun the OTA setup.


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## codespy (Mar 30, 2006)

Called both DTV and install company last week requring OTA receiver. All the installer company had in stock was HR21, no more HR20's. When the tech got to my house, I noticed he was a friend of mine. He checked the stock room himself and they had no HR20's.

In our market, CBS still has not signed with DTV, but they do have OTA digital feed.

Wound up with a HR21-200. Nice color, OTA reception horrible.

Frustrated here in WI.


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## bbanks69 (Oct 19, 2007)

digital223 said:


> Some members are for ota while some think it is not necessary.
> I live very close to all the major networks. My ota reception is far better than E*'s locals.
> The FCC has made it manditory for all tv mfr's to include ATSC tuners in thier tv's.
> I think that rule should apply to stb's as well.
> ...


I am going to purchase a new dvr, and I was leaning toward the hr20/hr21. the more that i read, the more confused that i am. I would like the OTA feature with the hr20, but i do not need it today, but in 2009 I think that we all need it. I do not have HD right now, but I am most interested in networking my DVR's. So am i right in assuming that if i am more concerned with the networking aspect rather than the OTA, and DOD, then it does not matter which way i go. and also is the difference between the hr20/hr21 when it relates to the OTA issue is it a hardware, or software issue? if it is a software issue, then I would think that D* would implement it eventually. But if it is a hardware issue, then I think I should try and find a HR20.

Input please, it is so much good, and bad information on this webpage, I am going crazy. I would also like to benefit from the CE program.

asking a lot, Help Please


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

I just purchsed a HR20-700 on Ebay because I need the OTA. It is slightly used but in mint condition with a NEW CARD so I am excited because they are getting harder to come by and I don't want to wait until the AM21 OTA Unit comes out in April.


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## pratttech (Jan 13, 2008)

hasan said:


> Instead of engaging in further pointless debate and continuing to beat a dead horse, here are some instructions for you to make sure you have the highest likelyhood of actually getting either an HR20-700 or HR20-100.
> 
> You may have to change your install date, if the installer doesn't have the box you want.
> ==============================================
> ...


Are they even making any more HR20s? I just spoke with a Halstead Communications supervisor as I have a HD DVR upgrade scheduled for tomorrow and he said that these are not being manufactured any more. They do not have any HR20 and do not expect more in according to him. The HD DVR upgrade was part of my resolution for not having 119 LOS. All of the locals that I do get I only receive OTA. Without an HR20 I won't be able to record anything on network television.

I tried to tell him if they show up with an HR21, I can't accept the install and they will have wasted a trip. I also mentioned combining two dishes. He suggested that they can check LOS for potential dish changes while they are out. I am also not sure about refusing a HR21 since D* has already added $99 to my bill for the HD DVR. The supervisor mentioned an upcoming HR22 with OTA and I asked about the AM21, but he didn't have specific times for either. I think the HR22 might be the HD DVR Pro I've seen discussed and more expensive.


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## pratttech (Jan 13, 2008)

So a further update. As D* had not yet responded to my email, I called them and explained the situation to a CSR. I was put on hold for ten minutes and when he returned he said that he had verified my 119 LOS issues, the work order for tomorrow and I would get a HR20. This was on the work order already he noted. I am not really sure what to think though as the person I spoke with at Halstead said they had none. 

Perhaps they have none except when D* confirms the need?  The CSR did explain this was the "old" model, and asked me to confirm this is what I wanted, implying that old is worse. I am pretty sure that I read that save an extra RJ-45 ethernet and the black versus silver color there were no other differences except the OTA tuner. Is this true?


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## inazsully (Oct 3, 2006)

I asked this question a month ago and this thread drives home the point. Why did "D" bring out the HR21? As someone mentioned earlier, you may not need OTA now but perhaps in the future you will. Given a choice why would anyone opt for the HR21 unless you just have to have black. I realize the HR21 is less expensive to manufacture but inventory cost must factor in there somewhere. And will the HR21 still have a cost advantage when they make it OTA capable?


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## gpg (Aug 19, 2006)

I just got an HR10-250 upgraded yesterday, and I got an HR20-100 without even asking for it. I had expected an HR21.


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## cover (Feb 11, 2007)

bbanks69 said:


> I am going to purchase a new dvr, and I was leaning toward the hr20/hr21. the more that i read, the more confused that i am. I would like the OTA feature with the hr20, but i do not need it today, but in 2009 I think that we all need it. I do not have HD right now, but I am most interested in networking my DVR's. So am i right in assuming that if i am more concerned with the networking aspect rather than the OTA, and DOD, then it does not matter which way i go. and also is the difference between the hr20/hr21 when it relates to the OTA issue is it a hardware, or software issue? if it is a software issue, then I would think that D* would implement it eventually. But if it is a hardware issue, then I think I should try and find a HR20.
> 
> Input please, it is so much good, and bad information on this webpage, I am going crazy. I would also like to benefit from the CE program.
> 
> asking a lot, Help Please


if you don't need OTA today, it's unlikely that you'll need it in 2009. The only reason it's really necessary today is in markets where DirecTV doesn't carry the local HD stations on the satellite. And for those of us who insist on watching OTA because the picture quality is a little bit better. The reason that the HR 21 does not receive OTA is because it lacks tuners. An add-on OTA tuner box for the HR 21 has been announced but is not yet available.

personally, I made sure to get HR 20s while they were still readily available because I wanted to make sure that I had OTA tuners.


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## pratttech (Jan 13, 2008)

cover said:


> And for those of us who insist on watching OTA because the picture quality is a little bit better.


I think this is overplayed as an argument. I need OTA because I can't get SD locals from 119. I do get two HD locals though that I also get OTA. As far as I can tell in comparing the D* HD against OTA HD with my 1080p display there is no difference at all in PQ. I can't speak to SD for the reason above.

A bigger reason that someone might want OTA is that many channels now offer more than one subchannel or they receive more than one DMA OTA. I'm in the Prov/NB DMA, but receive Boston DMA OTA. Boston PBS is now 2-1, 2-2, 44-1, 44-2, 44-3, and 44-4. I would not get any without OTA as I'm not in that DMA, and even if I were it would only be the two main channels 2-1 and 44-1 available through D*.


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## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

cover said:


> if you don't need OTA today, it's unlikely that you'll need it in 2009. The only reason it's really necessary today is in markets where DirecTV doesn't carry the local HD stations on the satellite. And for those of us who insist on watching OTA because the picture quality is a little bit better. The reason that the HR 21 does not receive OTA is because it lacks tuners. An add-on OTA tuner box for the HR 21 has been announced but is not yet available.
> 
> personally, I made sure to get HR 20s while they were still readily available because I wanted to make sure that I had OTA tuners.


There's still no HD PBS stations carried yet by DirecTV, which is another reason for wanting OTA. And if you get HD PBS with an antenna connected to your TV you can't record a program using your DirecTV DVR. You also won't see any program listings for that channel in your guide.

Perhaps things will work out sometime in the future but I think DirecTV mismanaged the phaseout of the HR20's. They should have kept them in the pipestream until the new add-on OTA tuner became available.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

My HR20 that I bought from EBAY will be here Friday!!! YEAH!!!


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## pratttech (Jan 13, 2008)

pratttech said:


> So a further update. As D* had not yet responded to my email, I called them and explained the situation to a CSR. I was put on hold for ten minutes and when he returned he said that he had verified my 119 LOS issues, the work order for tomorrow and I would get a HR20. This was on the work order already he noted. I am not really sure what to think though as the person I spoke with at Halstead said they had none.
> 
> Perhaps they have none except when D* confirms the need?  The CSR did explain this was the "old" model, and asked me to confirm this is what I wanted, implying that old is worse. I am pretty sure that I read that save an extra RJ-45 ethernet and the black versus silver color there were no other differences except the OTA tuner. Is this true?


Once again let down by D* customer service.  

Either they have serious miscommunication problems there or else no misgivings about lying to customer....

The technician showed with a HR21. I felt bad for him as he didn't know what he was walking into. As before I have found the guys on the ground very patient and understanding. He said they didn't have the HR20 anymore either and showed me his work order which mentioned nothing that D* had told me it should. He waited while I called D*.

They didn't seem to have a record now and I only had the name of the CSR I spoke with no confirmation. I explained the situation to the first CSR who said she would need to call the local installation supervisor. I told her to go ahead as that was what I'd done before calling them yesterday. She hung up on me.

I called back and used the magic words "cancel service" to get to a retention or 2nd line CSR. Again I explained the issue and was told about the AM21. I explained I knew about that but was it available yet? I also didn't want to pay for it. She said it would be free for me because of this but was not available and could not say when one would even ship to me.

I explained that I'd seen instances online where people still report receiving the HR20 and that the local supervisor told me there are many requests in New England for the OTA model and he had none. If they still had supplies in other areas of the country then surely they could ship one? She said yes and informed me that she will have one sent from their Denver center and a reclamation box for the HR21 but he should install that HD DVR model for now so the proper lines are run.

It sounded good and I said okay. Unfortunately with the two calls, all of the system prompts to get to a person, and talking to the technician at the same time, I let her go without getting any confirmation number again   . I guess that I really need to create myself a D* CS checklist for the information I need to get to document these issues fully. I should not have to though. I did explain to her how I felt this would be so much better for all if they could automate customer service through DirecTV.com the way they do service changes and billing.

I have wasted days of my time with all of these calls and it is frustrating when they conflict themselves. I explained how of over a dozen emails beyond the typical canned response of thanks for being a customer yada yada yada, I've only ever been contacted back by a specialist once though every email states this will happen. It has gotten so I don't want to call or email them. The website is great for ordering services or viewing bills, but CS features there don't really exist. There is an email address and phone number-- that's it.

They need a real problem ticketing system with both customer facing and internally facing systems so we can just resolve these issues rather than going round and round. With such a system I could communicate the issue more effectively to the appropriate resources and they can update my ticket with pertinent and hopefully truthful responses that I could see in real time. I think of the time I have wasted and then think they have their own people jumping around because of these systems too.

Somehow I don't think it is any better on the other side of CS there. If anyone else works in tech and know the Cisco Service Request Tool or EMC's Powerlink Case Management, you know exactly what I mean when I say what it could and should be. DirecTV.com is excellent in all other respects. Why can't they automate CS? Right now their only answer is to put more conflicting techs on their phone lines and my only immediate CS option is to call in.

If they had a true CS web that would mean less customer calls coming in and then those that did might get a better response as well. They would save so much in staffing needs and customer satisfaction for the long run to easily offset the expense of designing such a web-driven CS system. I would love to see this. After only one month with D* I would be so so happy if I never had to email or call them ever again. I'd do everything through the web.


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## inazsully (Oct 3, 2006)

billsharpe said:


> There's still no HD PBS stations carried yet by DirecTV, which is another reason for wanting OTA. And if you get HD PBS with an antenna connected to your TV you can't record a program using your DirecTV DVR. You also won't see any program listings for that channel in your guide.
> 
> I have the PBSHD station in my guide here in Phoenix and I record several shows a week on my HR20. Same with CW. I have the antenna running into the HR20 of course.


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## spaldingclan (Jan 22, 2008)

inazsully said:


> billsharpe said:
> 
> 
> > There's still no HD PBS stations carried yet by DirecTV, which is another reason for wanting OTA. And if you get HD PBS with an antenna connected to your TV you can't record a program using your DirecTV DVR. You also won't see any program listings for that channel in your guide.
> ...


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## mooresmsr (Feb 7, 2008)

OK, here's MY situation -- I had a Hughes hi-def receiver and an Hr10-250 with over-the-air connections. I live about 3 miles from the local TV towers, and had excellent -- repeat, excellent -- OTA reception for network channels. I bought into the F-U-D sales pitch, and got the upgrade before I found this board, about 4 days ago. I now have a new receiver with no OTA connector ("oh, you can just hook the antenna to the tv, then go through the which-lead-do-I-need-to-use shuffle every time I want to watch local/sat) and a new HR21 with no OTA connector. I also still have all the old equpment. Oh, that I knew the real request I should have made was for new HR20's. 

Anyhoo-- Will it do any good to call the install or D* and tell them to come out and retrieve the stuff they stuck me with that has no OTA connections and swap it for HR20's? If I just go to Best Buy, etc., and get an HR20 myself, can I just put it in, hook it up, and call D* and deactivate the HR21 and activate the HR20? OTA is a must for me -- "Lost" in low-def really sucks -- but I'd like to get the best bang for my effort.

And the third option is to wait for the AM21 -- is it going to be out for central Iowa in any near future, and the HR21 upgraded to accept it?

SMM


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## codespy (Mar 30, 2006)

Emailed DTV 4 days ago, and supervisor called me. I explained my situation, and he is drop shipping an HR20 in a couple days, and issuing a call tag for the HR21 I got earlier this week.

Good recovery and service, DTV!


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Will be installing my HR20-700 and will be installing it today. Then I will have 2 HR21-700s and a hr20-700.


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## skylinebeach (Feb 2, 2008)

gpg said:


> I just got an HR10-250 upgraded yesterday, and I got an HR20-100 without even asking for it. I had expected an HR21.


Can you post the link to the HR10-250 upgrade you got and how much you paid for it?


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## dinotheo (Sep 22, 2006)

I am in the minority. I really want another HR21 and I keep getting HR20's for my HR10 upgrades. 
I want an HR21 for my bedroom as I have a Samsung DLP with a piano black finish. A stand for that TV with a piano black finish. That darn silver HR20 just looks hideous in that stand. I can't do OTA to that receiver anyways since I only have 2 coax runs (I used to have OTA diplexed with my HR10 in there....I am waiting for SWM8 availability at reasonable prices) Anyone wanna trade?:grin:


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## iceburg02 (Sep 20, 2006)

dinotheo said:


> Anyone wanna trade?


I'll gladly trade you the HR21 I just got on Saturday for your HR20...


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## dinotheo (Sep 22, 2006)

iceburg02 said:


> I'll gladly trade you the HR21 I just got on Saturday for your HR20...


Where about do you live?


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## Albie (Jan 26, 2007)

I just opened up the box I ordered as an upgrade to my H20-600, hoping to get one of three possible HD DVR units with co axial digital out. Well the first thing I saw was a silver unit.  So I am thinking I still have a 50% shot at this point. The next thing I notice is the cyclone shaped vents on top. :eek2: Well I guess with this luck it is time for me to buy a lottery ticket. Then If I win I can upgrade my Sound System to something that has more than 1 optical input, so for now my 3 way toslink switcher keeps all 3 inputs full. 

I guess the good news is that both of my HD DVRs will both be on the same software version.


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## josetann (Oct 2, 2006)

I was offered an HD DVR for $100 plus shipping and tax around January 22nd or so. I asked if they could just ship it to me because I've had problems with missed installer appointments in the past, and it was no problem for me to just hook up a few cables. I got a refurbished HR20-100 (I was supposed to get a new one). When I called, they figured that the warehouse is used to shipping refurbs to customers to replace their receivers, and not new ones (since installers got those), and offered to reship a new one to me plus ship a return kit. I said that was fine but said that I'd be willing to try out the refurb if they made it free, they said fine, I tried it out, and it's working fine. I guess all I'm saying is you might have a better shot at getting an HR20 if you have it shipped to you instead of counting on what an installer has in stock.


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## Hondo381 (Mar 14, 2008)

Well, I guess that I waited too long to get an HR-20. I've had to cancel 2 separate installs to upgrade my HR10-250 because the installers failed to show up with the HR-20 even though it was written on the work order. Then, I tried to find one at BestBuy, Costco, Circuit City but no luck. They are no longer in stock. 

I have 2 questions: 

Anyone have an idea where I might be able to obtain a new HR-20 that isn't a returned or open boxed item? Note, I will not purchase one from E-Bay if there is one available from that site.

Also, any plans in the works to roll out a new HD-DVR that includes an OTA input? I know that ther're coming out with a box for the HR-21 to be able to receive and record OTA channels but why should I pay for this. I simply want to upgrade my HR 10-250 to be able to get all HD Channels available to me if I had the proper equipment.

Thanks in advance for your help.


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

Why not ebay? I know several folks who successfully got them from ebay. As long as they're deactivated and in good standing w/ DirecTV, you should be able to get them effortlessly. Also, there are a few vendors who still have some.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

Hondo381 said:


> Well, I guess that I waited too long to get an HR-20. I've had to cancel 2 separate installs to upgrade my HR10-250 because the installers failed to show up with the HR-20 even though it was written on the work order. Then, I tried to find one at BestBuy, Costco, Circuit City but no luck. They are no longer in stock.
> 
> I have 2 questions:
> 
> ...


1. Sorry to say, you snooze you lose.

2. As far as I know, no future HD DVR (or any other box for that matter) will have OTA built in. It's additional cost that is not needed for a the most part.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

I got my HR20-700 on Ebay and had no problem. You just have to make sure you buy from a company that has done lots of business and has a good rating and has not activated the unit (meaning it has a brand new sealed card with it).

Directv even listed my unit as "OWNED" so I can upgrade my internal drive, etc. without fear of reprisals.


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## spec2 (Oct 1, 2007)

FWIW I upgraded to HD yesterday they brought out an HR20-100S. I don't know if it was new or a refurb, but I suspect the latter as it came in a plain brown box. I asked the installer if he had any HR21-100s or 200s in his truck (I wanted black) and he said "no, but maybe at the warehouse." I didn't really have the time or patience to wait for another installer and DTV would not ship direct to me since I already had an install set up so I let him put the HR20 in.


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

Hondo381 said:


> Well, I guess that I waited too long to get an HR-20. I've had to cancel 2 separate installs to upgrade my HR10-250 because the installers failed to show up with the HR-20 even though it was written on the work order. Then, I tried to find one at BestBuy, Costco, Circuit City but no luck. They are no longer in stock.
> 
> I have 2 questions:
> 
> ...


http://www.solidsignal.com was only place I could find that would guarantee an HR20. others list it but then say if no stock the HR21 will be shipped.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Weaknees said they had some with upgraded hard drives the last time I inquired but that is alot more expensive than upgrading the unit yourself.


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## BrandonH (Aug 16, 2006)

I would just order from solidsignal before taking the chance with going the ebay route. I got mine from solid signal about three weeks ago and it arrived two or three days after I ordered it.


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

yeah, I looked at them and it was over a $100 difference. more economical to setup an esata yourself. solid signal was 212 with 3 day shipping.


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## Elephanthead (Feb 3, 2007)

I didn't know solid signal had these, I am ordering one, on another note, I can not believe the pro HD DVR does not have OTA tuners inside, very disappointing and not so pro.


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## aa9vi (Sep 4, 2007)

Runch Machine said:


> My parents are replacing two HR10-250s with two new HD DVRs. They only want HR20s because they need over the air tuners so they don't lose their signal when it rains really hard. They record a lot of local channel programming.
> 
> Their installer from Directv is scheduled for this Saturday.
> 
> ...


Solidsignal.com $199


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

Elephanthead said:


> I didn't know solid signal had these, I am ordering one, on another note, I can not believe the pro HD DVR does not have OTA tuners inside, very disappointing and not so pro.


:beatdeadhorse: x1000


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## dcscot (Feb 12, 2007)

Hondo381 said:


> Well, I guess that I waited too long to get an HR-20. I've had to cancel 2 separate installs to upgrade my HR10-250 because the installers failed to show up with the HR-20 even though it was written on the work order. Then, I tried to find one at BestBuy, Costco, Circuit City but no luck. They are no longer in stock.
> 
> I have 2 questions:
> 
> ...


I just went through this nightmare myself. I was promised an HR-20, it was on the work order and the installer shows up with on HR-21's. Retention was no help at all, their order system has no way to differentiate.

I went witih SolidSignal and installed myself.


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

Aside from a relatively small cost, we are getting ever closer to having OTA for the HR21 series, as has been posted in another thread. Performance wise, I expect no fan of the HR20-700 (which I have), will be disappointed in the HR21/AM21 combo when it becomes available.

If people will just be a bit patient, the solution *is real*, and in the end, the HR21 very well may be *preferable* to the HR20 for OTA purposes.

I'm sure we will hear more about this in the near future.


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## Hondo381 (Mar 14, 2008)

dmacleo said:


> Solid Signal.com was only place I could find that would guarantee an HR20. others list it but then say if no stock the HR21 will be shipped.


Thanks for the info however you may be mistaken. On their web site they do have a disclaimer which says:

*• This unit is discontinued and has been replaced by the New HR21 HD DVR​*
To everyone who responded to my question, thank you very much for your replies and your input.


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

no mistake, they ran out. when I bought mine about 3 weeks ago or so I posted here that they only had 40 left. 2 or 3 responded and said they were going to buy, they were selling 10-15 a week at that point.


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## BrandonH (Aug 16, 2006)

Hondo381 said:


> Thanks for the info however you may be mistaken. On their web site they do have a disclaimer which says:
> 
> *• This unit is discontinued and has been replaced by the New HR21 HD DVR​*
> To everyone who responded to my question, thank you very much for your replies and your input.


They had that notice up when I ordered mine as well, that doesn't mean they don't still have any HR20's in stock and that you can't order one though. The HR20 page still says "Usually Ships Same Day".


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## YoungTurk (Mar 17, 2008)

FWIW, I didn't ask for either DVR in particular, but was glad the installer showed up today with an HR20-100. I'm in deep South Texas. 

Working flawlessly so far. 

YoungTurk


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## Hondo381 (Mar 14, 2008)

I thought that I'd update you all on my search for an HR-20 DVR. 

Several members here asked why I wouldn't purchase one from E-Bay. The truth of the matter is that I have concerns when making such a purchase from E-Bay. Well guess what? I made my purchase of the HR 20 from E-Bay Express. I decided to do so after a member here and I exchanged a few PM's. 

On E-Bay Express I viewed several HR 20's that were for sale. I decided on one particular seller but before I decided to buy from this person I contacted 5 people who had left favorable feedbacks for the seller. They had all purchased an HR 20 DVR from the same individual in recent weeks. All 5 people responded in a positive way about the seller that I was inquiring about. That convinced me to go ahead and make the purchase for the HR 20 from him. 

I ordered the HR 20 Sunday March 16 at 10 PM. The unit arrived at my house today, roughly 64 hrs. after I had ordered it. The HR 20 is new along with all items that are supposed to come with it. If I had any complaints about this DVR it's that it's an HR 20-100S Model. I know that I purchased an HR 20 that was advertised as the HR 20-700 Model. However, in doing a search on the differences between the 2 Models, I may have come out OK. Apparently the difference in Model Numbers has to do with only who makes the Models. Reportedly the HR 20-100's are made by RCA and the 700's by another company.

Regardless, I have already scheduled an appointment with DirecTV for next Saturday to have the 5 LNB Dish installed along with a Free Upgrade of an HR-21. I gave in to the HR-21 but I'm still getting the HR 20. 

BTW, I also would like to pass along the fact that DirecTV also has given me a credit of $100 in addition to the Free Upgrade. I did this by dealing with Customer Retention at DirecTV. I wanted to get a good deal with regard to this swap-out and I know that I did very well. 

Now, having said what I've said about this E-Bay Express purchase, I did good and had no problems. If you do what I did you should be OK with any purchase from E-Bay. Make sure that you investigate completely any seller before making a purchase such as that for a DirecTV DVR. Also, make sure that the seller takes PayPal because of the added protection.

I thank you all for all of your help and suggestions. I look forward to next Saturday when I get the additional DVR receivers installed.


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## JimV (Feb 3, 2007)

I saw an HR20 at Costco over the weekend. Whats on BB and others websites arent necessarily what is in their stores.


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## Racer88 (Sep 13, 2006)

Should have saved yourself a lot of grief and just taken the free HR21 and spent your money on a TiVo HD. That thing has awesome OTA tuners in it that no HR20 can even come close to.

I got one when woot.com had them and been using it for a couple weeks now. It's simply an amazing device. NOTHING DirecTV has can compare to it's OTA performance. Hell it even get's a rock solid lock on the stations in my area that are roughly 90 degrees off axis of my directional OTA antenna that neither the HR20 or HR10 would even touch.
PLUS it has so much more too boot....


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## DakotaKid (Jun 25, 2004)

kturcotte said:


> Are there any OTA DVRs, besides Tivo, and don't require a computer? I just checked Best Buy's, Circuit City's, and Crutchfield's sites, and none of them have any.
> And then there's the other problem for me, if I used OTA. I want it all integrated in one box, or I have NO interest in it.
> However, I've only used Directv HD DVRs. Do Dish Network's or cable compnies have OTA tuners built into their HD DVRs?


Phillips makes a dvr that has a built in dvd burner for around $300. My boss picked one up at Best Buy about a month ago. He likes it.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Racer88 said:


> NOTHING DirecTV has can compare to it's OTA performance.


So you are already rulling out the AM21?


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## Racer88 (Sep 13, 2006)

Well firstly AM21 still isn't available to the OP nor was it when the original post was made. TiVo HD was....

Secondly the OP was shopping for a HR20 NOT a HR21/AM21 combo since as mentioned above that was, and still isn't an option.

Now if DirecTV wants some real world testing on this thing in the deep fringe, multipath hell that I live in that makes the older generation ATSC tuners in the HR10 and HR20 unreliable at best then convince them to send me one 

I already know TiVo HD works like a champ, so let's see how the AM21 stacks up in a direct side by side comparison.


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