# Finally giving up on the R15



## eengert (Nov 16, 2005)

For anyone who cares,

I thought I'd be able to live with the R15 until it became stable and more feature-rich, but alas I've grown too frustrated with it to continue with it even as a secondary receiver. I'm putting my R10 back in service tonight. It's just not worth it anymore. Development isn't moving fast enough for my taste to make up for the gross lack of stability and functionality. There's really no way the box I have should've made it through beta testing. And if my box is experiencing different issues than other boxes (assuming these are software related issues) then that's all the more reason to believe the R15 was rushed to market and proper testing was not performed. Here are just a few of the insanity inducing issues that I'm experiencing with my R15:

- After each upgrade, all my SL's are gone
- Cannot get a recorded program to play. When I press play (either using the play button on the remote or selecting the play icon on the screen) all it does is switch to the previous channel, as if I had pressed the prev button on the remote.
- Extremely slow response to remote signals, and sometimes no response at all.
- No trick play functions work. If I press pause, for example, the meter appears at the bottom and the pause icon appears, but it doesn't actually pause the program. In fact, there is no indication that the program is being buffered because the meter is blank. I've reset several times with no effect. Kinda hard to use a DVR if you can't pause, ff, rew, etc. or even playback a recorded program (if I'm lucky enough to get a program to record).
- Re-Setup two SL's for Lost and Amazing Race last night. Checked the TDL and they were there at 7:30pm. AR was to begin at 8pm and Lost at 9pm. I wasn't watching the R15 so I have no idea what actually happened, but they didn't record and there's not trace of either in the History or TDL.

I'm sure some of you would like to suggest that I perform a clear and delete, but I'm not interested in resetting my DVR to factory settings every time we get a software update. Heck, I shouldn't ever have to do that. Anyway, there's just no reason for me to use an R15 over an R10. I switched only because it was free and I didn't like the slowness of the menus/guide on the R10 (even with 6.2). But the R15 guide is no faster given it's lack of responsiveness, and a fast guide doesn't make up for not having basic DVR functionality. So I'm done with the R15 until I read on this board that significant enhancements have been made to it. It doesn't even have anything to do with it not being a TIVO (I'm not a TIVO loyalist). It just has to do with being a product that plain doesn't work. I appreciate that development is putting out frequent updates, but D* made a poor decision to release this product in the first place. And while some minor improvements have been made, after several months the R15 still isn't to a point where it should be in the hands of consumers. Therefore, mine is going on the shelf. Thanks for the information provided here. I'll periodically check in on the status of enhancements. Good luck to the rest of you.


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

Wow. I'm glad I haven't seen any of those issues with mine. Are you sre you just don't have a lemon?

Anyway, you might want to do that full delete and reset before you shelve it, then put it away until us pioneers get a few more arrows in the back. You can bring it out again in 6 months or a year, after the pain has subsided, and see if you get a pleasant suprise!


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## laceyd (Mar 6, 2006)

eengert said:


> - Cannot get a recorded program to play. When I press play (either using the play button on the remote or selecting the play icon on the screen) all it does is switch to the previous channel, as if I had pressed the prev button on the remote.
> - No trick play functions work. .


If you haven't already done so, I would take it back to the store/get another from DTV. I had these exact same problems, and needed to restart every 48 hrs. Then the hard drive started making clinking noises, and would freeze while watching a recorded program. Took it back to BB, got another, and have only had to reboot the unit twice in the past two months, and it has missed just one recording. I have had the black screen problem a couple times (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=56080&highlight=black+screen), which accounts for the one lost show. but apart from that it's worked fine.

It went from being something that dissuaded me from watching TV, to something that seems now to be indispensible. Before you give up altogether, I would get another unit and give it a try (especially as if you put it on the shelf the warranty may expire before you dust it off again).


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## dgib (Nov 16, 2005)

I'm just about at the same point with my R15. It started a few weeks ago by going blank when I selected anything from the list. I reset it 3 nights in a row, called Directv, got frustrated with them as they had no fix. Anyway it seemed to settle down again until a few nights ago. Same thing happened. Anything from the list was played back as a blank screen. When it does this sometimes I have menu access and sometimes not. A reset (red button) brings it back to life after the reboot but I can't watch anything.
I called DTV last night again and performed a full reset (can't remember what it's called on the menu). They said it would take 3+ hours but it took only about 5 minutes. This did seem to fix it for a while but of course I've lost all of my shows I had yet to watch. Then again last night whilst in any menu when the live buffer is in the top corner, it was blank again. I managed to get back to the TV show and switched the box off. It's OK this morning but who knows when it'll happen again. I just can't rely on it anymore. If it wasn't for the bigger storage on it I would have swapped it out for my old HDVR2 already. I'm getting really, really annoyed with this.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

eengert said:


> - No trick play functions work. If I press pause, for example, the meter appears at the bottom and the pause icon appears, but it doesn't actually pause the program. In fact, there is no indication that the program is being buffered because the meter is blank.


I had this happen yesterday for the first time on my R15. Press pause or rewind during live TV and the meter would show up with the proper symbol (pause or rewind) on the right edge, but the live show was still playing. Press the button again and the green portion showing the buffer appeared, but the live TV was still playing, press it a third time and the bar goes away. Repeatable as long as you kept pressing the button.

Tried changing channels, had no effect.
Tried the skip back button, had no effect.
Tried turning off (standby) a couple of times, had no effect.
Did a regular (red button) reset, and it again is working properly.

I have 10B8 software, which I downloaded when it first became available a couple of weeks ago.

This is now the 4th (or maybe 5th) time I've had to reset this unit since I got it in November, still way below some people's experience but frustrating none the less.

Carl


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## JAWheat411 (Mar 19, 2004)

Same problems here. Never had a problem with my R15 until this previous week. It has turned into a big turd. Doesn't record correctly. Freezes 3 times a day at least.I don't understand how this could start happening all by itself. Been trying to get the update for my R15 300. But it it doens't look like it is happening. If the update doesn't help. This paperweight is going back.


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## TimGoodwin (Jun 29, 2004)

I was having all of the same problems with mine. I put up with it for about two month's and I finally went back to my Directivo about a month ago.


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## profbobo (Jan 22, 2006)

TimGoodwin said:


> I was having all of the same problems with mine. I put up with it for about two month's and I finally went back to my Directivo about a month ago.


Me too. I had two R15 boxes from the end of January to the end of March. My wife and I gave up on them and went back to R10 TiVo boxes. Had to find those off eBay. My two month R15 experience cost me more $$ than I had planned. But I am glad to be back with TiVo. The R15s sit in their boxes on a shelf in the basement.


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## Link (Feb 2, 2004)

My dad has had the R15 for about 6 months and as far as I know he never has any problems with it because if he did I am sure I would hear about it!!


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

I don't know about your dad, but my mom has had WebTv for 3 years and I haven't heard about it because she hasn't tried it yet.


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## Larry G (Apr 13, 2006)

Holy Cow
You're scaring me!!!
Think I'll hold on to my VCR's for a while longer.


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

Strange my R-15 has been getting better after all the updates. Still needs work but after the last update mine seems snappier and much less sluggish.


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## cobaltblue (Feb 22, 2006)

We have had our R-15 since early December. I must agree. The R-15 has come a long way since the first few weeks. Each Upgrade has shown steady but yet slow improvement. So far the 10B8 upgrade has continued with this trend.


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## dgib (Nov 16, 2005)

cobaltblue said:


> We have had our R-15 since early December. I must agree. The R-15 has come a long way since the first few weeks. Each Upgrade has shown steady but yet slow improvement. So far the 10B8 upgrade has continued with this trend.


Although I commented higher up in this thread that I was about to swap it out for my old HDVR2, I agree that the R15 is getting better. My biggest problem with it is also documented above and if that was fixed, playback of blank shows and blank live TV, I would really quite like it. I'm getting closer to thinking my particular problem is hard drive related. I'm sure I can hear something clicking when the blank stuff happens.


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## tall1 (Aug 9, 2005)

I came to the same conclusion the OP came to a couple months ago. The clunky transport functions were the deal killer for me and after reading the lukewarm reviews of 30s slit, I'm not even interested in giving it a try.

I feel very cheated by D* because I ordered a "Tivo" in early December and an R15 was installed. I got home from a business trip, looked at the R15 and thought, wtf is this? I tried to return it but was stonewalled at every turn. I also got cheated out of $55 by the installer because he had to run another coax. Even though I paid $49 for a standard install and the CSR assured me there would be no additional cost to install. 

I later found out I was NOT eligible for the $100 DVR rebate (I was assured by the CSR I was eligible) because I got an "instant" rebate last Sept. on an HD Tivo. All told I spent $99+$49+$55+6.5% sales tax for the R15. I take full responsibility for being asleep at the switch which had nothing to do with the buggy R15 but when you pay over $200 for any DVR you expect it to be more than just a doorstop. I still check in here occassionally to see if things are any better with the R15 but I see they are not; what a shame.


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## morgantown (Nov 16, 2005)

I too gave up on the R15 after just a few weeks. TiVo spoiled me, what can I say? I'm not tossing the R15 off a cliff or anything -- but a few weeks was a few weeks too many of beta testing for a product that I am paying for.

That said, I surely like to keep abreast of the developments and expect that the R15 will come back out of the box at some point in time. By then, I'd expect DTV to have moved on to another R model for the SD DVR. Given that the R15 at least began its life as a NDS DVR, and no NDS DVR has been great, I'm not holding my breath.

Sure does sound like the OP's box was a lemon. At least the very basic DVR functions did work (pause, etc.) despite the annoying audio dropouts every time when commencing play back. I do agree with the overall sentiment that the R15 was rushed into service without adequate testing.

One thing I just can fathom is the extreme variances in performace across different boxes with the same software. That just does NOT make any sense at all.


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## wbmccarty (Apr 28, 2006)

morgantown said:


> One thing I just can fathom is the extreme variances in performace across different boxes with the same software. That just does NOT make any sense at all.


Yes, that's one of the central R15 mysteries!


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

morgantown said:


> One thing I just can fathom is the extreme variances in performace across different boxes with the same software. That just does NOT make any sense at all.


I think it has a great deal to do with how the person uses the R15. If you do a lot of "Find by" and autorecord operations, you have more problems. If you set up a lot of series links, as opposed to just a few, you have more problems.

So us light duty users (myself included) tend to have very few problems with their R15's. Those who do a lot more recording, or try to emulate wish lists using find bys, tend to have a lot more problems.

And it seems that once your R15 does get bogged down, or muddled up, or whatever other highly technical term you want to throw at it, about the only thing that fixes it is a clear and delete type of reset. Something in it's table maintenance, flag tracking and other general software housekeeping just flat isn't working properly and the only way to get it back on track is to flush it clean and start over.

Carl


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## rlambert7 (Feb 7, 2006)

carl6 said:


> I think it has a great deal to do with how the person uses the R15. If you do a lot of "Find by" and autorecord operations, you have more problems. If you set up a lot of series links, as opposed to just a few, you have more problems.
> 
> So us light duty users (myself included) tend to have very few problems with their R15's. Those who do a lot more recording, or try to emulate wish lists using find bys, tend to have a lot more problems.
> 
> ...


Well, I don't think that is something for which users should be blamed. I'm not sure what constitues a lot of autorecords and SLs, but I'm sure my usage of "Find By" is quite extensive. I haven't had too many problems with my R15, mostly just ones that many others have been having.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

I was certainly not trying to move or push blame onto the users. That is definately a problem with the R15's software design.

I was only trying to note that the variations in usage do appear to account for the number of problems experienced.

Carl


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## ad301 (Mar 30, 2004)

Because this thread has the same theme, I thought I'd paste the message below, which I originally posted last Nov 21, here: http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=476200&postcount=1

Re-reading this, it seems that not much has improved in 6 months.  The one thing that has changed is that TiVo announced the Series3, which will be available during the second half of this year. So, I am no longer as angry as I was last November, knowing that I will soon have a very viable alternative to D*.

 *R15 Review: Reinvented the wheel, came out square *
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have decided to give up, after a week of testing this thing. It's so bad, in so many areas, that I just can't justify wasting any more time with it. I'm packing it up and sending it back.

I had eagerly anticipated the release of this new generation of DVR, since it gives insight into the future of DirecTV. The future is High Definition. With the recent launch of SW2, DirecTV seems poised to start rolling out new HD services. And the forthcoming HD DVR, using basically the same software as the r15, will be the only way to enjoy any new mpeg4 HD offerings with a DVR. So I decided to get an r15 to test, in parallel, with an r10 I already had.

I set up the same series recordings and searches on both machines to see what would happen. Unfortunately, I discovered very quickly that the Find function on the r15 is totally inadequate for my particular usage. There's a limit of 25 on recent finds, there is no way to save searches other than setting them to autorecord (which introduces a whole new set of problems), and there's no way to search all the recent finds as a group. Additionally, searches display episode titles rather than series names, there's no way to exclude channels you don't even receive from the results, and the results miss hits which the r10 finds. Then I discovered that you can have a maximum of 50 series links. Initially, that sounds like it might be a lot, but for me it quickly became apparent that this thing is just terribly underpowered for my needs. The hard limit of 50 is really a practical limit of around 35, because any more than that and the r15 gets extremely sluggish and prone to freeze ups. For a couple of days when I was trying to run the thing at 50 items in the prioritizer I was getting 4 or 5 freeze ups PER DAY. That has stopped as I have been running only 25 or so in the prioritizer for the last few days. Maybe these limits will be fixed, eventually, but I have a nagging fear that they were put in there due to hardware limitations. (Hypothetical memo from Rupert Murdoch to design team: "Make this thing CHEAP to build!")

There is no way to set up a series recording to record only new episodes. There is an option to select that, but it doesn't work. Maybe that will be fixed eventually. Want to set up three series to record, but have a conflict? You might want A and B if they're both originals, but C if A or B is a repeat. Good luck with that. First of all, you'll get all A and B episodes because it records repeats as well as originals, but besides that, you have to jump through hoops just to set it up using an autorecord find. Maybe that'll be fixed eventually. Dual buffers? Maybe that will be fixed eventually, too.

Are you a sports fan? I rarely watch live sports anymore, but what I do like to do is record each game my local teams play, and then if I care to, I can check out the overtime goal, or the walk off homer, or the controversial call that should have been overturned, or the latest injury to a Jets' quarterback. I use one of my hr10s to catch HD games, and one of my dsr6000s to catch all the SD games. Using autorecord wishlists set to retain 2 events each, and set fairly low in the SP priority list, it works very well. I tried to set up the same thing on the r15, and got some games recorded, but also got a lot of partial recordings, recordings on channels I don't receive or subscribe to, and some just missed completely. The r15 is not smart enough to know that if a lower priority item conflicts with a higher priority item, it should try to schedule it at a later time. Instead, it records partial programs.

I could go on and on. I haven't even mentioned any of the little user interface things that are just badly designed. It's slow to respond to remote control commands. Nothing is intuitive. Everything seems to take many more key presses than on the r10. Screens have much less information displayed. Information on individual programs is truncated. History is minimally informative, and does not even show upcoming conflicts. New series get added to the top of the prioritizer, and then to move them down is just agonizingly slow. If you're on a screen showing a list, and you use channel up/down to scroll through the list more quickly, and then hit it once more after reaching the end of the list, you change the channel you had been watching without warning. Goodbye buffer. These are just some of the little annoying things that pop into my mind, there are many more.....

I'm finished. Finished with this thing, and probably finished as a DirecTV customer in the not too distant future. When they start offering HD content that is not accessible using my hr10s, then I will have a decision to make. There are other options for me, and until now I wouldn't even have considered them. I am actually shocked that DirecTV would have made a series of decisions that would lead them to the point of releasing a machine this bad.

The above is all strictly my opinion. The r15 may suit your needs very well. It does not suit mine.

Alan


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

ad301 said:


> Because this thread has the same theme, I thought I'd paste the message below, which I originally posted last Nov 21, here: http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=476200&postcount=1
> 
> Re-reading this, it seems that not much has improved in 6 months.  The one thing that has changed is that TiVo announced the Series3, which will be available during the second half of this year. So, I am no longer as angry as I was last November, knowing that I will soon have a very viable alternative to D*.


Series 3 out yet? lol had to say it  I love Tivo but they have a horrible track record on getting products to market in a reasonable time.


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## mikewolf13 (Jan 31, 2006)

Yeah, Tivo is stupid for not rushing a crappy product to market and letting the users wade thorugh and document all the issues for them, all the while denying issues ever existed and claiming the same issues that never existed have been successfully resolved.

That's a business model to be proud of.

THere's a good poll:

Would you rather a product be delayed until it works, or sold pre-maturely with updates?


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## ad301 (Mar 30, 2004)

Clint Lamor said:


> Series 3 out yet? lol had to say it  I love Tivo but they have a horrible track record on getting products to market in a reasonable time.


Second half of this year. Sometime between July and December 31st. And the day it's released, we know it will work. And it will have all the bells and whistles, including MRV and HMO.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

mikewolf13 said:


> Yeah, Tivo is stupid for not rushing a crappy product to market and letting the users wade thorugh and document all the issues for them, all the while denying issues ever existed and claiming the same issues that never existed have been successfully resolved.
> 
> That's a business model to be proud of.
> 
> ...


YOu seriously think that this box will come out with no problems? If so I suggest you go read the TCF forums to look at past problems and upgrades. No product comes out perfect in this day and age.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

ad301 said:


> Second half of this year. Sometime between July and December 31st. And the day it's released, we know it will work. And it will have all the bells and whistles, including MRV and HMO.


I am sure it will work and I am sure it will have problems. I do give Tivo major credit for using actual users as beta testers though and getting some feedback to try and take care of these problems before they release to everone. Even with that I have seen people have issues with every release. They are good products but still not perfect. I saw some posts on the dual analog tuner Series 2 coming out. Kinda cool. Sorry for jacking the thread


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

Clint Lamor said:


> YOu seriously think that this box will come out with no problems? If so I suggest you go read the TCF forums to look at past problems and upgrades. No product comes out perfect in this day and age.


If it came out day one with as many problems as the R15 still has after how many updates, it would be a failure by Tivo standards and, apparently, an "all the problems are now debugged" success by D* standards.

Don't tell me you're turning in to one of those people who believe that 1 problem == 1000 problems?


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

ApK said:


> If it came out day one with as many problems as the R15 still has after how many updates, it would be a failure by Tivo standards and, apparently, an "all the problems are now debugged" success by D* standards.
> 
> Don't tell me you're turning in to one of those people who believe that 1 problem == 1000 problems?


Never said that, Tivo has been released with many problems from the very start. I complained about those problems as I had them, some very serious some not that serious. I Tivo all the sudden had Season Pass issues I would be very worried seeing as it's something THEY had working.

I have been around Tivo, ReplayTV and now the R15 for some time. They all have had issues some more serious then others and others are now more polished (well Repla y is all but dead I think).

I like toys I like to play with new things so I guess I have just become accustom to dealing with software issues, doesn't make them right just makes it par for the course.

I think watching TCF for the first 2-3 weeks after the S3 is released will be fun though.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Clint Lamor said:


> I think watching TCF for the first 2-3 weeks after the S3 is released will be fun though.


I think owning one the first 2-3 weeks would be a butt-load funner. :grin:


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> I think owning one the first 2-3 weeks would be a butt-load funner. :grin:


Unless yoru cable company gives you a hard time obtaining Cable-Cards
(that is my biggest fear with the launch of the T3... the Cable-Co's are going to not have enough enough cable-cards and that multi-hundred dollar T3 will sit there dead in the water)


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> I think owning one the first 2-3 weeks would be a butt-load funner. :grin:


Actually I don't agree. I hate cable here so owning the S3 would mean I have to get cable which would be BAD in my eyes. 

NOW if they could make it work with DirecTV I would probably be all over that. I have no problems having different DVR's I still have a Tivo bill every month anyway lol.


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## rlambert7 (Feb 7, 2006)

carl6 said:


> I was certainly not trying to move or push blame onto the users. That is definately a problem with the R15's software design.
> 
> I was only trying to note that the variations in usage do appear to account for the number of problems experienced.
> 
> Carl


Actually, I did not thing you were, but the way you worded it I thought maybe some might have thought so. I totally agree, it is a S/W design issue. I am glad you pointed that out.


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## mikewolf13 (Jan 31, 2006)

Clint Lamor said:


> YOu seriously think that this box will come out with no problems? If so I suggest you go read the TCF forums to look at past problems and upgrades. No product comes out perfect in this day and age.


No problems? Of course not.:nono2: But apparently the R15 was released without the abiltiy to record shows relaible, perform basic functions of DVRs in the market for several years, or simply operate without locking up or needing frequent resets.

This product should not have been released in that condition. If Tivo S3 is released that way they should be criticized harshly :ramblinon

I dunno if the Series 3 will work. Don't plan on buying one to find out. I am not a tivo company loyalist. I don't understand those that vehemently side with coke over pepsi,; sirius over xm ; tivo over Dtv or vice versa..over what is mostly comparable products.

If the R15 did EVERYTHING it is suppossed to . I would not tell you Tivo is a superior product..IMO it would be a matter of style whichone someone preferred as functionality would be pretty much equal..differences yes, but again, more about style than true superiority.:goodandba

If you (the proverbial you - this is not meant to be directed purely at Clnt) wrote a letter to Dtv being 100% accurate but critical about the R15. Outlining all the issues we have read about, the fact it's been 6 months and still does not operate as advertised, the fact DTV does not communicate what the updates include, and publicly makes false (intentional or unintentional) statements regarding the existence and debugging of issues. You couldn't possibly think that the R15 currently is a good product and should be sold in good faith to people expecting to buy working products. :new_Eyecr


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

man... I never realized some of the really cool emoticons that we have here on the forum...


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

mikewolf13 said:


> No problems? Of course not.:nono2: But apparently the R15 was released without the abiltiy to record shows relaible, perform basic functions of DVRs in the market for several years, or simply operate without locking up or needing frequent resets.
> 
> This product should not have been released in that condition. If Tivo S3 is released that way they should be criticized harshly :ramblinon
> 
> ...


While I do agree that the R15 was shipped too early and with too many problems I am not 100% exactly sure where the blames belongs. I think the testers where not hard enough on these boxes for many of the issues to surface. Things like the recording problems NEVER should have been missed.

As for the box doing what it's supposed to do well in my case and some others I know it records everything I ask it to and pretty much always has. As a matter of fact it records FAR more then I want it to at times :lol: .

I don't expect Tivo to make a huge backwards step but I do know it will have issues when it's released it's just a fact of life. They are very good at what they do though and I am sure I will end up with some new Tivo as long as it doesn't require me to have to switch to cable.  It can play with my 3 other Tivos and my R15 I currently have.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Clint Lamor said:


> While I do agree that the R15 was shipped too early and with too many problems I am not 100% exactly sure where the blames belongs. I think the testers where not hard enough on these boxes for many of the issues to surface. Things like the recording problems NEVER should have been missed.


Don't for one second try to cast blame for the current R15 problems on "testers". As you have pointed out in other threads, we don't know. You don't know it was tested. I have read rumors it was tested by employees. If that's true (but again we don't know) then the blame goes upon DTV. Do you think for a second that Tivo had only it's employees testing the S3? In the end, the blame still sits directly on DTV for releasing the unit.



Clint Lamor said:


> As for the box doing what it's supposed to do well in my case and some others I know it records everything I ask it to and pretty much always has. As a matter of fact it records FAR more then I want it to at times :lol: .


But in the field it doesn't behave the same for everyone. Some are fine, others have tons of problems including missed recordings and freezes. Possibly, that would be something that would have been discovered if DTV had conducted a proper Beta Test program with customers versus employees. But then again, even the employee test is rumored.



Clint Lamor said:


> I don't expect Tivo to make a huge backwards step but I do know it will have issues when it's released it's just a fact of life. They are very good at what they do though and I am sure I will end up with some new Tivo as long as it doesn't require me to have to switch to cable.  It can play with my 3 other Tivos and my R15 I currently have.


I'm sure it will not play with your R15 as DTV can't even get the R15 to play with itself. Opps :eek2:

But I'm also sure it will record what it's told, when it's told and play said recordings back properly. After all, the Series 3 is the replacement for the Series 2. Just as the R15 was the replacement for the R10.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> Don't for one second try to cast blame for the current R15 problems on "testers". As you have pointed out in other threads, we don't know. You don't know it was tested. I have read rumors it was tested by employees. If that's true (but again we don't know) then the blame goes upon DTV. Do you think for a second that Tivo had only it's employees testing the S3? In the end, the blame still sits directly on DTV for releasing the unit.
> 
> But in the field it doesn't behave the same for everyone. Some are fine, others have tons of problems including missed recordings and freezes. Possibly, that would be something that would have been discovered if DTV had conducted a proper Beta Test program with customers versus employees. But then again, even the employee test is rumored.
> 
> ...


First I didn't place the blame solely on the testers I said the testers weren' hard enough on these boxes. I honestly don't care if it as an employee, a developer or a third party. The job that was done clearly wasn't good enough.

It honestly doesn't matter who tested the boxes (rumors aside there where many reports of the boxes being seen at D* employees houses before it was released) the major issue is this box was released and many of s know it shouldn't have been. There are glaring errors that PROPER testers never would have missed. I doubt we will ever see any of us as official Beta Testers, but thats just my feelings.

I don't expect the Tivos and the R15 to talk to each other they are different products from different companies. I am stating that I will most likely have all the boxes, I also have a Series 1 which can't talk to my 2 Series 2 machines.

If you think Tivo has never screwed up a recording happening or screwed up a playback of any program I suggest you do some reading. I have had both issues with my S2 boxes. Do I care? No they work very well the majority of the time.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> But then again, even the employee test is rumored.


Well, I do KNOW that one employee (a grand-nephew of mine) had two R15's to play with and "test" at least three months prior to their general release. I don't believe he was given any specific test guidelines though, and long after the fact (and sometime after he left D*), I happened to visit where he lived at the time, and looked at the wiring he had to support the various receivers and dvr's. It was truly a mess, and used many splitters rather than multiswitch, etc. There is simply no way that he could have conducted any kind of valid test of the unit with the wiring and connections that he had.

I do not know if he was "typical" of the employee testing, but I can certainly say without a doubt that his use of the devices did not contribute in any way to their being properly tested.

And, despite my observations here, he is a good kid and I do like him.

Carl


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Sorry Clint, I got fired off when you stated:


> I am not 100% exactly sure where the blames belongs.


I am 100% sure, the blame belongs to DTV.

You and I agree some times, disagree others, great part of this forum. But DTV didn't properly test the R15 prior to release. If they did, we wouldn't have seen such problems at the beginning and, IMO would not be seeing as many differences in experience as we do now. How can some users have no problems while others have tons of problem except for an improper beta test program?


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## wbmccarty (Apr 28, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> How can some users have no problems while others have tons of problem except for an improper beta test program?


Perhaps because of an improper alpha test program? Seriously, an application shouldn't be released to beta test until it has passed reasonably rigorous unit and integration (that is, "alpha") tests.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> Sorry Clint, I got fired off when you stated:
> 
> I am 100% sure, the blame belongs to DTV.
> 
> You and I agree some times, disagree others, great part of this forum. But DTV didn't properly test the R15 prior to release. If they did, we wouldn't have seen such problems at the beginning and, IMO would not be seeing as many differences in experience as we do now. How can some users have no problems while others have tons of problem except for an improper beta test program?


No problem at all. 

I think the problem is DirecTV and the testers. I think it's D* because they didn't use a big enough group or have a good testing plan laid out (possibly both). It the testers fault for not pushing these boxes hard enough to break them like many people here are able to do. Any way it goes if they are D* employees it's still D*s fault. :lol:

I have NO issue with saying that they let the box out too soon.


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## wbmccarty (Apr 28, 2006)

Clint Lamor said:


> It the testers fault for not pushing these boxes hard enough to break them like many people here are able to do


I myself am not certain that testers _didn't_ break the R15. I think it's altogether possible that test reports showing defects were not acted on, or were not effectively acted on. Moreover, many of the defects reported here are of the sort that developers might generally have caught and fixed before submitting their work for testing. In other words, I think there's a much bigger problem here than merely shallow testing.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

wbmccarty said:


> I myself am not certain that testers _didn't_ break the R15. I think it's altogether possible that test reports showing defects were not acted on, or were not effectively acted on. Moreover, many of the defects reported here are of the sort that developers might generally have caught and fixed before submitting their work for testing. In other words, I think there's a much bigger problem here than merely shallow testing.


I agree, I think there are many issues that are now hopfully corrected. The quality of released code seems to definately gotten better since the initial release though. Hopefully they have a much better internal testing structure now.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Clint Lamor said:


> Hopefully they have a much better internal testing structure now.


Is that wishful thinking? Have you or Earl heard of any official beta test program for updates? I seriously doubt anything has changed.

Look at the current situation. The -500's have 10B8, some of us even have 10C0 yet the -300 users have no update and no word on it. At least in my little mind, this does not indicate an organization that is in anyway in control of software releases.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Yes, I have heard some more...

An actual NDA based Beta test program.... no, new news
The possiblity of having access to pre-release versions, they are still working on the symantecs on how it could work (both technically and legally). They are also discussing the ROI (effort vs rewards) on implementing such a thing.

As for the -300s There have been words (as recent as tonight), it is on the near horizon. There won't be a functional difference between the two box for much longer.

As for the 10C0... Someone up there must love you....  Since my R15 doesn't have it either... (I guess that shoots the SHILL theory  )

Ever sit back and think that you happen to be at the right place, right time, and executed the right command.... kinda like an easter egg..


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> Is that wishful thinking? Have you or Earl heard of any official beta test program for updates? I seriously doubt anything has changed.
> 
> Look at the current situation. The -500's have 10B8, some of us even have 10C0 yet the -300 users have no update and no word on it. At least in my little mind, this does not indicate an organization that is in anyway in control of software releases.


I haven't heard anything, I was simply going on the basis that the code seems to be better as of late. Outside of that it's wishful thinking on my part.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Unless yoru cable company gives you a hard time obtaining Cable-Cards
> (that is my biggest fear with the launch of the T3... the Cable-Co's are going to not have enough enough cable-cards and that multi-hundred dollar T3 will sit there dead in the water)


Just wondering. Why does the T3 make you need cable or a cable card?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

IIRC The jist of the T3 is that it runs off 1 or 2 Cable Cards to access the Encrypted Digital content of those networks.

It does have an Analog tuner it (IIRC), but that would not be able to access most of the cable companies offerings.

I am not 100% sure how it handles OTA Digital content (if it needs a card, or if it has one built in)


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> It does have an Analog tuner it (IIRC), but that would not be able to access most of the cable companies offerings.


ie. Scifi, or other channels that comcast made part of thier ditigal package.

Ok, thanks for the info Earl.


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