# DVR Fee - A Silver Lining



## Peluso (Sep 11, 2002)

There has been so much reaction to the DVR fee, that I feel it's worth pointing out the benefits. 

Dish is a business, it's sole purpose in life is to make as much money as possible. This is not a bad thing, it's just the nature of business. It does this by distributing video programing and services via satellite. The ultimate law to which any business subscribes is the law of supply and demand. 

I firmly believe that the market competition generated by demand will eventually be the driving force that makes Digital recorders just one more no-charge feature, especially for video service providers. Don't forget that we are still relatively in the very early stages of development of this type of technology. The cost of development has to be recouped and the market has to get to the point where it starts demanding the feature in it's products and services. When demand is in full force then market pressures will allow the provider with the highest quality, lowest cost service to be the market leader. others will follow. 

Dish attempted to win the market by offering the free service, but realized that the time for this was still too early. The changed the policy to make better business sense. 

The below points are strong reasons why this was good not just for Dish, but it can be argued for us in the long time. 

* Even though it's possible to provide the service the market isn't ready to demand freedom from monthly fees. So from a business perspective it's foolish to not get money when the market is willing to give it to you. 

* Added revenue from DVR fees = stronger profit = higher stock price = more resources for Dish to make bigger business investments. Ultimately long term benefit is a stronger organization that can offer more services and be more competitive. 

* The Market Works! - If this is as bad a move as everyone seems to think then the average consumer will react and new subscriber growth, and PVR growth will fall. I have personally seen an example of this with someone very close to me. They made the decision without my interjecting because of added fees. 

So I say to everyone who is lividly upset about the new fees... don't let it bother you so much. Your current equipment is covered. let yourself be assuaged that if this is a bad for the company it will go away. If it's good for the company, eventually there will be benefits for the consumers.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

It would help if Dishes DVRs were feature rich high quality units. Not half tested beta units. with lots of bugs. The fee per box is nuts, and not competibve with D.

Get a FREE service, live with some problems.

Pay amonthly fee it better work all the time


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## Neil Derryberry (Mar 23, 2002)

bob, your problems seem to be very unique to the way you seem to use (abuse) your boxes. How many concurrent timers do you have set at this moment? 60, 70, or is it higher than that?

My 721, and my 501 before that were rock solid. My UTV's were rock solid as well, and aside from the record by name feature, were no more or less stable than my 721. I imagine that under the conditions you describe, even a UTV would puke on you.

The moral... no offense meant toward you, bob, but you are trying to make one box do the work of ten. You need to realize this before you go around blaming Dish for your trouble.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Sadly there are lots of folks with multiple failures. I have total 2 508s and one 721 right now we have just over 50 timers set between all 3 boxes. Thats down from when we tried to set more than that on the 721 alone, and sent it into endless reboot. My one 508 appears solid, the other needs reboooted every few days. it freezes

The 721 missed a couple timers the other day, that was the first problem THIS 721 has had.

So Neil you think setting lots of timers on a electronixc box abuses them in some way? I admit it may lead to frequent hard drive failure but other than that please explain futher. 

Can we agree that direct TIVO boxes seem more stable and have better features while their hard drives are swapable and upgradable?


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Its odd you mention the UTV, it has a good reputatrion sad the dishplayer wasnt as good.

The common thread in buggy boxes appears to be.... .......


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## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

Let the market decide. Anyone want to guess when DirecTV will have competiting ads comparing their PVR service with Dish's PVR service?


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## Neil Derryberry (Mar 23, 2002)

> So Neil you think setting lots of timers on a electronixc box abuses them in some way? I admit it may lead to frequent hard drive failure but other than that please explain futher.


no... my point was that you are not a "standard" user by your own admission, but you make yourself out to be when you answer questions posed by users. Nobody here seems to have the same problems you have... and I would put money on the fact that your problems are caused by your heavy usage.


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## Chris Freeland (Mar 24, 2002)

Z'Loth said:


> Let the market decide. Anyone want to guess when DirecTV will have competiting ads comparing their PVR service with Dish's PVR service?


Probably never, both D* and E* consider cable to be their primary competition, not each other so much. Yes D* and E* do compete with each other, but all of the marketing efforts of both D* and E* are aimed at cable, not each other. If D* does trie to compare the priceing of D* and E* PVR's it would be $4.99 for D* DVR with TC or TC+ programing package's compared to $4.98 for E*DVR with AT100 or AT150, how is this a perceived advantage to D* when E* is a penny cheaper? D*DVR no-fee with TCP, E*DVR no-fee with AEP, how is this a perceived advantage for D*? E*DVR fee $9.99 with AT50 or less programing, but hay, D* does not even offer a programing package less then the $33.99 TC package, let alone anything that matches AT50 at $24.99 from E*. Sure D* could point out the per account vs the per unit fee or compare DVR features, however I suspect that D* advertising dollars will go further by targeting cable in their promotions and not E*.


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

All this rationalization of a COMPLETELY unnecessary fee is interesting. But it is only a rationalization. The ONLY reason Dish is starting to charge a DVR fee is BECAUSE THEY CAN. And as with any "because we can" fee, I will refuse to pay it and refuse to do business with the company that first implements the "because we can" fee. ...Even if I have to pay the same type of fee to another company.

See ya
Tony


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

I agree, Dish is starting to charge this fee because they can, they see it as an opportunity to make more money per sub just as they see a fee increase as an opportunity to also make more money per sub. It seems to be working so far since Dish has seen profits.


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## alv (Aug 13, 2002)

I am not a buyer of because they can argument presented above. With DVR/PVR's there always was a tradeoff between high initial cost and no fee vs. low cost and monthly fee. Replay TV orginally had higher cost and no fee and went out of business. Tivo had it the other way around and is doing fine. Seem that most people are not willing to shell out large hardware $ to watch TV but more are willing to rent. This is what it seems E* is betting on.


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## toddjb (May 7, 2002)

The bottom line is that the Dish DVRs IMHO are not high enough quality products to justify a monthly fee *in addition* to the purchase price. The quality and features are not there. 
:soapbox:
I have one 501 and a 508. I love the technology and it has been easy enough to teach my girlfriend to use. However, I should not have to tell her how you go about doing a power-button reset... (which is something most DVR owners will have to do when the receivers start acting bizarre, if the RXers don't do it on their own!)

I am used to this system and recommended it to a neighbor. He moved into a new house and was excited to have himself wired up with a 3 DVR system. He is not a technical savvy guy and within 6 months he had the cable company pull it all out and install their own equipment. He had frequent calls to customer service and did not get the service and response he felt he deserved, got fed up, and left Dish. This stuff is just not where it needs to be to satisfy the user who does not want to tinker with his $300 receiver (or $1000 in the case of the 921 when it comes out).

When they have TIVO features and the rumored TIVO reliability, then Dish can charge the fee we have been bashing Tivo about for years. Now all of a sudden it is okay? No way!

-todd :flag:


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## Peluso (Sep 11, 2002)

TNGTony said:


> The ONLY reason Dish is starting to charge a DVR fee is BECAUSE THEY CAN.


That's the whole point of my post. There is nothing wrong with what they are doing, they are pricing their product to the market. If you get mad at them for this, then you should be equally mad if not more upset at every other DVR service in existence.

The real boss at Dish just like every other publicly traded company is Wallstreet. Wallstreet demands unrealistic profit expectations... Wallstreet forces these types of decisions to be made. Charlie did what had to be done and made a smart business decision. Period.

They aren't doing it because they can, but because they have to, at least from a business management perspective.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Neil Derryberry said:


> no... my point was that you are not a "standard" user by your own admission, but you make yourself out to be when you answer questions posed by users. Nobody here seems to have the same problems you have... and I would put money on the fact that your problems are caused by your heavy usage.


Sure when E built too low a maximum number of possible timers there software had a nervous breakdown and caused the endless reboot, that even advanced tech idnt seem to be aware of.

If they had known it would of saved a 721 swap out.

Sure we are heavy users, mostly my wife and her cooking shows but others report these problems.

I remember my tuner 2 failure and being told it was just me. Later tuner failure became very common.

I guess were at the bleeding edge of the bugs.


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## Peluso (Sep 11, 2002)

toddjb said:


> The bottom line is that the Dish DVRs IMHO are not high enough quality products to justify a monthly fee *in addition* to the purchase price. The quality and features are not there.
> :soapbox:
> 
> When they have TIVO features and the rumored TIVO reliability, then Dish can charge the fee we have been bashing Tivo about for years. Now all of a sudden it is okay? No way!
> ...


Quality is a separate issue from the debate of monthly service fee vs. non monthly service fee. It's a good point, but the average consumer sees no difference and won't also own a Tivo for comparison sake. Pausing live TV and recording off of the program grid is similar enough service to Tivo for the consumer to be happy.

The point I made is that the decision is a sound business decision and a more profitable company will benefit us all in the long run.


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## kstevens (Mar 26, 2003)

Bob Haller said:


> It would help if Dishes DVRs were feature rich high quality units. Not half tested beta units. with lots of bugs. The fee per box is nuts, and not competibve with D.
> 
> Get a FREE service, live with some problems.
> 
> Pay amonthly fee it better work all the time


If you feel that way, then subscribe to D*. that is how a free market works.

Ken


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

Peluso said:


> That's the whole point of my post. There is nothing wrong with what they are doing, they are pricing their product to the market. If you get mad at them for this, then you should be equally mad if not more upset at every other DVR service in existence.


No. I shouldn't. The entire reason for the monthly fee is because on all the stand alone units you are subscribing to a listing service. This is the way the machine works. With DirecTV, they are licensing TiVo technology and also using their listing service.

In both these circumstances you are paying for something.

With Dish, but Charlie Ergen's own admission in the Q2 conference call, they owe no one. They are not paying anyone else for DVR services or for development of the receivers. Again, out of his own mouth, there are three reasons for the DVR fee:
1) We make more money that way.
2) We can offer (NEW) customers a lower initial price for the unit and they will pay us back via the fees and in the long run we make more money.
3) it adds value to the upper packages where we make more money in the first place.

I have no problem with business trying to make more money. But I will NOT be the one to pay more just because they can charge me more. And if others just lie down and roll over for this kind of business practice, we all deserve what we get. Higher prices and tack-on fees from EVERYONE!

See ya
Tony


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## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

If Dish takes the attitude that that are charging a fee just because they can, then I'm switching to DirecTV because I can. 

Oh wait, I am doing that now. Silly me.

Dish has shown some profitibility, while DirecTV has yet to show a profitable quarter, so Dish is obviously doing something right by catering to the people who just want the "essentials". People are very hesitant about switching systems. These are probably the same folks who have a flashing 12:00 on their VCR.


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## mjschuyler (Nov 2, 2002)

According to the new ad slick E* is aiming their DVR service at new customers with a 508 DVR and 301 with AT100.

Most AT 50 customers would not be interested in a DVR as they are more concerned with a low monthly bill.

E* will try to push AT100 customers to the "everything" package with the lure of no charge DVR service.

For every current E* sub that they lose they will gain many new DVR subs that think all DVR's are TIVOS. The new subs will be delighted with the E* DVR features such as they are. Maybe after a while they will discover there are other DVR's on the market and see the differences between them.

Murray


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

I think to say that one should be mad at the other DVR service providers out there because they charge a fee as well is not the whole story. Its about justifying the fee and having better hardware and/or software. Dish is pushing the envelope to see how much they can charge that they can get away with until they see the limit. They want to maximize their profitibility.


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## Peluso (Sep 11, 2002)

Jacob S said:


> Dish is pushing the envelope to see how much they can charge that they can get away with until they see the limit. They want to maximize their profitability.


There is nothing wrong with this from a purely business sense. If anything they should be congratulated for doing a good job for their investors.


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## Peluso (Sep 11, 2002)

TNGTony said:


> No. I shouldn't. The entire reason for the monthly fee is because on all the stand alone units you are subscribing to a listing service. This is the way the machine works. With DirecTV, they are licensing TiVo technology and also using their listing service. In both these circumstances you are paying for something.


I disagree with this point. You are paying for the whole package under the guise of the listing service. The cost for upkeep on the listing service is minimal at best. A couple of good servers and a few employees is all that's needed.



TNGTony said:


> With Dish, but Charlie Ergen's own admission in the Q2 conference call, they owe no one. They are not paying anyone else for DVR services or for development of the receivers. Again, out of his own mouth, there are three reasons for the DVR fee:
> 1) We make more money that way.


Once again, from a purely business view this is a good thing. The purpose of Dish network is to make money. The more they make the better they are doing.



TNGTony said:


> 2) We can offer (NEW) customers a lower initial price for the unit and they will pay us back via the fees and in the long run we make more money.


Again, another good business decision, it's untested at this point but to get people into a DVR for little or zero upfront cost is fantastic for the core dish customers.



TNGTony said:


> 3) it adds value to the upper packages where we make more money in the first place.


So it supports the core business model, more good business sense.



TNGTony said:


> I have no problem with business trying to make more money. But I will NOT be the one to pay more just because they can charge me more. And if others just lie down and roll over for this kind of business practice, we all deserve what we get. Higher prices and tack-on fees from EVERYONE!


I don't get your anger at them charging more because they can. If you understand how capitalism works, then you realize that competition is the only real thing that keeps prices down. It's the right thing for him to do for dish and for the investors to move to this pricing model at this time.

Hey, i'm disappointed too, especially considering i'm probably going to purchase a 921... but I'm not so angry. If someone else comes out with a HD PVR with tivo like features and no monthly fee, I'll buy that. Charlie will loose a subscriber, ergo a hit at his core business. Eventually fees disappear.

I think your doing the right thing by canceling service if you don't like the business model, it's a vote with your dollars. But I don't see canceling service to just move to someone else who is offering the same deal as Charlie. It's like cutting off your nose to spite your face. You go though the frustration of a change of service provider and get no real benefit from it. I would think as soon as someone offers a free PVR service, then you could move because there is a clear benefit to yourself to go through the hassle.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Well D TIVO gets a better more reliable box. By ALL accounts they are very stable. Do you really think the E subs with DVRs need to be techs?


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## jrbdmb (Sep 5, 2002)

alv said:


> With DVR/PVR's there always was a tradeoff between high initial cost and no fee vs. low cost and monthly fee. Replay TV orginally had higher cost and no fee and went out of business. Tivo had it the other way around and is doing fine. Seem that most people are not willing to shell out large hardware $ to watch TV but more are willing to rent. This is what it seems E* is betting on.


Actually, TiVo is not doing that well - they have yet to turn a profit and more than a few analysts think that TiVo does not have a long term future. The general consensus is that those who have TiVo love it, but the general public will never embrace the product while it has a $12.99 monthly fee ($4.99 for DirecTiVo).

As for E*, Charlie is certainly allowed to start charging for DVR service. I would suggest that the E* users who have DVRs now or plan to get the 921 / 522 / 510 in the future tend to be more saavy about the DBS marketplace, and will jump ship if D* or cable offers a better deal.


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## toddjb (May 7, 2002)

Peluso said:


> Quality is a separate issue from the debate of monthly service fee vs. non monthly service fee. It's a good point, but the average consumer sees no difference and won't also own a Tivo for comparison sake. ....
> 
> The point I made is that the decision is a sound business decision and a more profitable company will benefit us all in the long run.


Nah, you're wrong.

Once I buy that piece of hardware I own it. They are not offering me anything unique for my monthly DVR fee. If they are going to mandate a fee, than they should offer me the product without a fee and perhaps let me know that I won't receive software updates after the first year or something.

As was said earlier, the guide is not enough reason to charge a fee because non DVR customers get it anyway and they are not licensing any technology to give this to me. (if this is the fee argument)

When I pay $300 - $1000 for a DVR, I am buying it outright.

I hear the argument you are trying to present here that as a business they should make the most money they can, but as customers it is also our right to decide if the money is warranted or not. Again, it is the whole package price we evaluate. If it is really programming that is costing them more, than raise the channel package prices. If they can't afford to produce DVRs and can only support development by charging monthly fees in addition to product price, well, another argument to outsource the technology and let other companies manufacture DVRs along with Dish. As you know, if the total price is too high, we'll go elsewhere.

-todd :flag:


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## pjmrt (Jul 17, 2003)

toddjb said:


> Nah, you're wrong.
> 
> Once I buy that piece of hardware I own it. They are not offering me anything unique for my monthly DVR fee. If they are going to mandate a fee, than they should offer me the product without a fee and perhaps let me know that I won't receive software updates after the first year or something.
> 
> ...


AMEN!

If E* wants to imitate cable, and give the receivers away (loan them to the users for the duration of their subscription) that's one thing and that's Ok with me if they want to charge a "dvr fee" to have a upgraded receiver with the dvr capability. BUT, If I pay several hundred dollars for a receiver, I DO OWN IT and am highly annoyed by any idea that I should pay 1 cent more to use a feature I just paid for (i.e. that hard drive sitting inside the box). That's why TiVo will eventually fail. I don't think the general consumer want to pay twice for their DVR. Lets not forget that one can buy a relatively inexpensive TV tuner/dvr card, plug it into your pc and have more capability than a lot of these receivers and not have to put up with an ongoing fee.


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## dbronstein (Oct 21, 2002)

pjmrt said:


> That's why TiVo will eventually fail. I don't think the general consumer want to pay twice for their DVR. .


TiVo will eventually fail because the cable companies are starting to roll out their own DVRs. Here's Time Warner's: http://www.accesstimewarner.com/cable/dvr/

Note you get the box free and just pay the monthly fee. People are not going to buy single-tuner SA units when they can get integrated boxes with two tuners for free.

And here's an article about Comcast's offering:
http://www.eetimes.com/sys/news/OEG20030513S0038

They are going to provide one box that you can use for all your TVs.

Dennis


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## toddjb (May 7, 2002)

dbronstein said:


> TiVo will eventually fail because the cable companies are starting to roll out their own DVRs...


Interesting post and nice looking box and programming package from TimeWarner. Too bad it isn't available in my area.

It is going to be very interesting to see what happens to Dish's pricing structure once all the cable companies catch up and DVRs become standard equipment.

It seems that in the end the local cable companies will have more bandwidth to give me HD locals and the DVR and VOD features I'd want. I have broadband through comcast now, I might as well get the rest of my package through them. Just a matter of time...

-todd :flag:


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

If Dish is going to start doing things like cable then maybe they should start giving you the receivers especially the second or third one if they are going to charge you the $4.99 extra monthly fee. There's an advantage to cable right there, you could lease the receiver even the DVR one without having to pay for it. You can do this on Dish but you have to go through the credit checks and credit card requirements whereas cable is a lot less hassle. This is one reason why cable still has the majority of the subs.


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

> "I don't get your anger at them charging more because they can."


This may sound silly, but it comes from total and utter disappointment!

Up until this point, Dish has been offering a product at a competative rate (talking overall here) and has usually met or beat the competition. It has been outdrawing the competition for new subscribers. It is one of the few companies in this business (multi-channel carriers) that is actually starting to see profits and is actually paying off debts. It has been doing this by ALWAYS having a fair price for its product. Every one of the other fees and charges they charge has a reason behind it other than "because we can". There isn't one nickel in fees that wasn't set specifically because people will pay it. Yes, the price structure had to do with what the market will bear. However at EVERY turn, they (Dish) would keep the charges to a "fair deal". ...meaning, they usually try to beat ALL the competition's pricing.

Well...that doesn't seem good enough.

Getting twice the number of new subscribers a month than the competition EVEN with higher priced receivers AND lack of choice in hardware was not good enough.

Being one of the only companies in the business to be actually either in the black or close to it was not good enough.

Being one of the few major companies in the field to actually start to pay off the debt load was not good enough.

They now have to extract EVERY possible nickel they can from our pockets, because they can.
The company that has always identified itself with trying to get customers away from companies like that and offering the best deals it could at a fair price is gone! "Charlie" is now one of "them". ...Interested only in how much money "he" can make and no longer interested in trating the customers fairly. That is my perception. THAT is why I'm angry! And that is why, Dish will NEVER see a nickel in PVR fees from me. Even if I have to pay some one else's PVR fees. I will continue to subscribe to Dish until the point is reached where I have to pay a PVR/DVR fee. Beyond that, I may get a stand alone box or go to the other side (cable now offers DVR in my area) if it costs less.

Another thing I didn't post before about why I'm not angry at the fees the other guys charge...they have ALWAYS since the beginning of time, charged the fees. Dish advertised their free PVR and reveled in that fact. They were proud of it and let you know it! Again showing that the fee is not necessary.

Replay went under because NO ONE EVER HEARD OF THEM! Ask anyone on the street if they know what a Replay unit is, and you'll get an answer about sports programming and the instant replay! 

See ya
Tony


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Bob Haller said:


> It would help if Dishes DVRs were feature rich high quality units. Not half tested beta units. with lots of bugs. The fee per box is nuts, and not competibve with D.
> 
> Get a FREE service, live with some problems.
> 
> Pay amonthly fee it better work all the time


In view of the price difference, the fee may be considered one of those complicated lease deals. The new Free Dish plan that goes into effect Sunday will be a 510 DVR. Do you see DirecTV offering free, factory fresh DVRs?

I see lots of claims of $49 DVRs from DirecTV (the best anyone has shown me is $69), but I have yet to see one under $149 that wasn't a refurbished (or repaired?!?!) unit.

As suggested in the press release, the free 510 seems to demonstrate E*'s desire to lower the entry level for a DVR unit.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

mjschuyler said:


> According to the new ad slick E* is aiming their DVR service at new customers with a 508 DVR and 301 with AT100.


This is incorrect. The new Free Dish Plan is for a 301 and a 510 with a two year committment to at least AT50.


> Most AT 50 customers would not be interested in a DVR as they are more concerned with a low monthly bill.


But Dish is offering it to them in the new slick just the same.


> E* will try to push AT100 customers to the "everything" package with the lure of no charge DVR service.


I sincerely doubt that $4.98 fee is going to cause someone to drop another $41 on programming just to avoid it. I don't think E* thinks that either.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

dbronstein said:


> TiVo will eventually fail because the cable companies are starting to roll out their own DVRs. Here's Time Warner's: http://www.accesstimewarner.com/cable/dvr/
> 
> Note you get the box free and just pay the monthly fee. People are not going to buy single-tuner SA units when they can get integrated boxes with two tuners for free.


If this deal is like what Comcast is offering, the $9.95 fee is over and above the fee for a digital box.

If you read the comparisons of SD DVR units, the SA brings up the rear in most all categories and bests the ReplayTV in only one category by having two tuners. It is the Dish DVR of SD.


> And here's an article about Comcast's offering:
> http://www.eetimes.com/sys/news/OEG20030513S0038
> 
> They are going to provide one box that you can use for all your TVs.


There are two problems with this in view of what is actually happening today:

1. Comcast is testing the SA8000, in VA, not a Samsung in PA.
2. There would have been a wireless 802.11g over coax (how's that for a conflict of terms) receiver/decoder required at each television with the Samsung. There is no free lunch.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

Dish also thinks they can because most do not know about the features of DirecTivo vs. Dish. I told someone about the DVR receiver coming out and the $4.99 charge and she said that it sounded good and that it should really take off. I wanted to see what some would say that has a lack of knowledge unlike us pertaining to this.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Well they sure DONT care about existing subs. Subs who decide to upgrade arent getting free boxes like new subs do. Noi we get to pay full price AND the fee.

For bug ridden equiptement.

I will switch providers over this.


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## Peluso (Sep 11, 2002)

Bob Haller said:


> Subs who decide to upgrade aren't getting free boxes like new subs do. Nor we get to pay full price AND the fee. For bug ridden equipment. I will switch providers over this.


We all got some sort of deal when we first signed up. I remember thinking i got away with murder when they gave me the Dish player with my new subscription. It worked for three beautiful years and I was very happy. I understand that they want to grow the new subscriber base so that's how the deals are structured. We all got a sweet deal at some point when we signed up so it's not really fair to complain that the new subs get a deal when existing subs don't 'cause we did get ours.

Now if I could only replace the broken hard drive in my dish player with a new and/or larger drive.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

I paid full price when I signed up some 7 or so years ago. Spent tons on upgrades too.

Now how do you justify payiing $1000 for a 921 and the fee?


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## Peluso (Sep 11, 2002)

Bob Haller said:


> I paid full price when I signed up some 7 or so years ago. Spent tons on upgrades too. Now how do you justify payiing $1000 for a 921 and the fee?


Both are early adopter purchases. early adopter's always pay through the nose. That's not a Dish thing, that's just a consumer technology thing. If you buy a satellite system today, it's not an early adopter purchase, not when close to 20 million people get there tv via a dish. Maybe thats why the deals are so sweet for new subscribers, there aren't as many any more.


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## Unthinkable (Sep 13, 2002)

Bob Haller said:


> Well they sure DONT care about existing subs. Subs who decide to upgrade arent getting free boxes like new subs do. Noi we get to pay full price AND the fee.
> 
> For bug ridden equiptement.
> 
> I will switch providers over this.


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## Peluso (Sep 11, 2002)

Hey Unthinkable: That was great!!!


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

A silver lining? More like a gold lining, in Dish's pockets, from all the money in them. Too much silver as in change? Yeah its time for a change.


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

Peluso said:


> There has been so much reaction to the DVR fee, that I feel it's worth pointing out the benefits.
> 
> Dish is a business, it's sole purpose in life is to make as much money as possible.... don't let it bother you so much...it's good for the company, eventually there will be benefits for the consumers.


Thanks for clearing that up, Charlie.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

The only silver lining I see is the color silver on the 721.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Peluso said:


> Now if I could only replace the broken hard drive in my dish player with a new and/or larger drive.


Hey thats easy and fun. Too bad they prevented this in later boxes.


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## Peluso (Sep 11, 2002)

well bob, if i ever get Dish service back, then i'll be sure to contact you to see if you want to walk me through it. My dishplayer is three years old by now so i would suspect it's upgradeable. From what I understand, I just get a 30 or 40 gig drive and drop it it and let the box do the rest. But things that are that easy never work as advertised... at least not with technology related products.


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