# HR20 Users, would you trade it for a TiVo



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

In the spirit of this poll:
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=103188

For those that already have an HR20....

If you were given the option to trade it for an MPEG-4 DirecTivo.
You can not trade it for a Series 3 based TiVo, because there is no guarantee that any of the features that are in the Series 3 would be allowed on the DirecTV system.

You can consider "hack" options for the TiVo, if you are one willing to do the hacks.

You would not have to pay anything for the trade...
You would not have to extend your contract... it would just take the place of your HR20.

The HR20 today (not the one that was there a year ago)...
For a DTiVo that was updated to add access to the MPEG-4 channels.


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## tooloud10 (Sep 23, 2007)

My HR10-250s have been gone for a week now, replaced by HR20s. There's simply no comparison in the interfaces--it's like the difference between Mac OS X and Windows 3.0.

My list of words to describe the HR20:

sloppy
awkward
junior-high-ish
gangly
annoying
temperamental
cheesy


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## funners (Aug 26, 2007)

tooloud10 said:


> My HR10-250s have been gone for a week now, replaced by HR20s. There's simply no comparison in the interfaces--it's like the difference between Mac OS X and Windows 3.0.
> 
> My list of words to describe the HR20:
> 
> ...


of course there is no comparison.... they're different machines...directv would be sued and lose if they made the same interface...


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## narrod (Jul 26, 2007)

Content is more important to me than hardware. I prefer Tivo but if I can't get all available HD with it I don't need it. I have a HR10-250, that cost me $600, boxed up and stored in the garage. I'm getting used to the HR20 interface. It's not that bad.


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## tooloud10 (Sep 23, 2007)

So Tivo has a monopoly on designing easy-to-use interfaces? D* should take some lessons from Tivo and Apple.

Here are some very specific MINOR things they could fix:

1) Add some textures to the OSD
2) Do away with the dual-use buttons, i.e. pressing "Guide" or "Menu" more than once does something different
3) Dual live buffers
4) Being able to easily switch to the other tuner...if there's a way, I sure haven't found it
5) The machine seems to react .5 seconds slow to the remote, kind of like how Internet Explorer makes the "clicking" sound after you click on a link (which is why I use Firefox).

Honestly, the best bet would be to put the Tivo interface on the HR20 hardware, but alas, I know that's out of the cards.


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## borghe (Oct 6, 2006)

can I vote more than once?  

I would trade it for a modern tivo in a heartbeat. Dual live buffers, wishlists, and better guide data. I like my HR20, but about the only thing pushing it over the edge for me are the MPEG-4 channels. If there was an MPEG-4 capable tivo I would LOVE DLB and wishlists back.

Not to mention the peanut and tivo guy


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

tooloud10 said:


> 2) Do away with the dual-use buttons, i.e. pressing "Guide" or "Menu" more than once does something different
> 3) Dual live buffers
> 4) Being able to easily switch to the other tuner...if there's a way, I sure haven't found it


Umm... for #2... TiVo does that too... they use buttons for more then one purpose... and hitting them more then once does different things...

#3 and #4... would be combinded...

Well actually #4 you can do it, if you are recording two programs... you can use the PREV to jump between them.


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## funners (Aug 26, 2007)

tooloud10 said:


> So Tivo has a monopoly on designing easy-to-use interfaces? D* should take some lessons from Tivo and Apple.
> 
> Here are some very specific MINOR things they could fix:
> 
> ...


your number 3 and 4 are actually the same thing....... I have absolutely no problem getting around on my hr20....my first dvr also... i think it's just a matter of perspective on your part outside of the one thing that is physically diff (dual live buffer)..............I'll give ya that one..... when you start talking about half seconds then maybe you watch too much tv lol


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## RegGeek (Mar 14, 2007)

When I opened this thread I thought I was going to vote for a Tivo. 

Tivo is easy to use.
My Tivos have never screwed up my recordings (error 13, error 3 stuff).
My Tivos have never had audio sync issues.
My Tivos have blessedly wonderful DLBs. Sure do miss that.

But when I really thought about it...

HR20 guide is MUCH faster
I like the quick menu that lets you keep almost your full screen viewable.
I have grown to really like PIG. At first I thought I hated it. Now I am annoyed I can't keep watching a show on Tivo.
One button record is great. 
I LOVE being able to stack the 30 s. slips. Hit the slip button a few times and I can put the remote down and not have to remember to stop the FF by hitting play. (wow that makes me sound incredibly lazy! :grin: )

So in the end I voted that, no, I would not trade my HR20 for a Tivo.


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## jrmichael (Dec 14, 2006)

Hmmm .... why do I have this overwhelming sense of a hidden agenda here?

As far as the interface itself, either does what I need it to do. The HR20 is definately much faster for me than TIVO but that could be related more to the hardware rather than the software. The only real function missing on the HR20 vs TIVO series 2 is the DLB feature. If oh, i don't know, say D* was looking for beta testers  I would be a willing participant.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

The Tivo I'm using as the basis for this is my older Sony T60...combined with what I've read about features like MRV and Unboxed.

For me a Tivo:

1. Is a LOT more reliable at recording the Season Tickets I set than the HR20 is with Series Links

2. The Tivo program descriptions were far, far better than on the HR20.

3. The Tivo search engine just worked better.

4. The Tivo Slow Motion button is usable as compared the poor implementation of hold the Play button for 3 seconds on the HR20.

5. MRV is available on the Tivo (hack)

6. Suggestions/Thumbs Up system

7. Tivo Unboxed (this may not be available...in a DTivo...not sure).



If DirecTV would fix the recording problems (13) I'd be a lot happier with the HR20.


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## Dom_P (Oct 6, 2007)

First off, long time lurker, first time poster  

Voted for Tivo, not that the HR20 is bad but rather that it's user interfaces is a bit poorer than the Tivo, and the fact that it occasionally hiccups and I end up with recorded shows that wont play back.

One of the things I'm finding most annoying with the HR20 vs. the Tivo during the new MPEG-4 switch over is the fact that the "record series" option seems to be tied to a particular channel vs. the series itself. I dont remeber that being the case on the Tivo at all. Quite a pain. to have to delete each of my series recordings and replace them with the MPEG4 channels

Also, unless I'm mising something, it seems that modifying a series recording is only allowed when there is actually something sceduled to be recorded. So bascially, modifiying a series recording is out of the question unless it's on the "todo" list. Now if there's a way to do it, then I can't find it, which leads me back to my user interface comment  

Also, someone please turn off the "media center has logged off" message popup! Everytime my PC decides to go into power saver mode I have to hit "OK" as the pop up persists

All that being said, the HR20 runs a very very close 2nd to Tivo (compared to other Dish Network and Cable DVRs I've played with) and hats off to DirecTv for that. Plus the HR20 is improving quickly given the frequency at which they broadcast updates... which is very welcome given the slow pace of updates for the DirectTivo


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## mateom199 (Sep 14, 2006)

I would trade my HR20 for an MPEG4 capable Tivo in a HEARTBEAT.

The HR20 has come along way since its ugly beginning, but Tivo still does practically everything better than D* in regards to DVR's. 

And boy do I miss the hackability =)



Earl....is this some kind of hint that Tivo is coming back to D*?
(Can't blame a guy for hoping!)


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## stewp97 (Mar 29, 2006)

I still use the HR10 and HR20. Jumping back and forth between them I now prefer the HR20. I do miss the DLB of the HR10, but I am willing to bet it is activated on the HR20 soon. I have been using the HR20 for over a year now, so I have seen the progression of the box since it was new. To me, the interface is superior on the HR20 over the HR10. And I really like the PIG!

peter


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## JGL (Aug 3, 2007)

I would definately trade the HR20 for a MPEG-4 Tivo. For me, the two most important criteria for a dvr are reliability and ease of use. The HR20 falls short on both of these.

My reliability issues:
I've had my HR20 for about 1 month now, and it's locked up 3 times, requiring a reset. Also, twice it's lost audio...the screen goes black for a second, and when the picture comes back....silence. It's happened once when I was watching live, and once it was during a recording. Kinda sucks to sit down and watch a recorded show and lose audio halfway through.

My ease of use issues:
I really, really miss the DLB's.
I miss the one-button push to get to the end of a recorded show.
I miss the 30-sec _skip_.
I miss the Tivo guide...and yes, I know you can press 'Info' and get upcoming shows for that channel, but it was so much nicer to be able to scroll down the channel list on the left side and have the upcoming shows show up immediately on the right.

My .02 cents...

JGL


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## kiwiquest (Jan 10, 2006)

I must say that my opinion of the HR-20 has greatly increased over the last few months....Dod, the stability has increased exponentially, the speed of the guide, the speed to set up a series link is quite impressive, media share (even though mine always freezes up), are all great things about the HR-20.

With that being said, i do miss the Tivo interface, and especially DLB, the additional information about each program (when a show orignally aired..etc.), and the rock solid perfomance of getting your programs recorded when they are suppose to. 

So, i voted for Tivo....even though the HR-20 is getting better.

One question: Would the updated Tivo be able to use any of the new features like Active channel, sports mix, game lounge, etc??


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## Spanky_Partain (Dec 7, 2006)

So I answered NO, but I have never used a Tivo. I always found them to expensive for the equipment/monthly charges or the one time lifetime charge.

I am not sure if this is valid for the poll.


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## armophob (Nov 13, 2006)

Yes, under 2 circumstances. The hard drives were comparable in size and the 90min buffer was available on the tivo. No, if these are the same as my old 250.
The only reason I switched in the first place was because of a lack of OTA signals in the area. But now I am once again spoiled.
I voted in favor of Tivo. If the conditions of this comparison means going back to less hard drive space and less buffer, please change my vote to HR20.


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## Phil T (Mar 25, 2002)

I like the HR20. 
My wife likes the HR10.
I like to have the latest and greatest toys.
My wife thinks I am wasteful, when I upgrade something that still works, for new technology, unless there is a good reason, or it is a free or low cost upgrade.

My wife just wants things to work and to be able to understand how to use them.


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## mateom199 (Sep 14, 2006)

Spanky_Partain said:


> So I answered NO, but I have never used a Tivo. I always found them to expensive for the equipment/monthly charges or the one time lifetime charge.
> 
> I am not sure if this is valid for the poll.


The beauty of the DirecTivo was that the monthly charge was only D*'s DVR monthly charge. If you have an HR20 right now, your paying waht you would be paying with a Tivo.

When I bought my HR10-250, it was close to $600, but that was a purchase, not a lease. To me, $600 to own vs $299 to lease the HR20 is pretty comparable.


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## MoInSTL (Mar 29, 2006)

TiVo. Better remote ergonomically and functionality. Dual live buffers. TiVo Guide much preferred over any grid.

I hate the remote for the HR20. To me, it's heavy and not laid out very well. Select should be at the top like all past remotes and function keys where Select is now. I prefer the curve in the peanut remote for comfort and my thumb easily reaches all the buttons. 

I had one of the first standalone TiVos available and I just prefer it.

I have my HR10-250 in my bedroom and usually watch news channels before going to sleep and the DLB makes it easy to miss most commercials.

Edit: Tivo has a better search function.


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## cycomyco (Mar 16, 2007)

after many many hiccups, my hr20 has been flawless for months and
have fallen in love with it. really, i kiss it good night every night @ bedtime.
all the new HD has been great too. DLB is missed cant have it all maybe someday

slimline
sony 40 bravia xrb3
denon s301
hr20 700
PS3
not networked yet

you'll be channel surfing in no time


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## lguvenoz (Aug 23, 2006)

Here are my thoughts:

1. I absolutely LOVE the way recordings and Series Links are done on the HR20 (one click or two clicks of the record button). I always hated the Tivo nonsense with screen after screen just to confirm a recording.
2. I think the HR20 guide performance is far superior to Tivo. 
3. I think the new "white" interface from D* is better looking than Tivo.
4. I think that Tivo had much more robust search capabilities.
5. I think that Tivo was more reliable for recordings (see note below).

Overall I would prefer to keep my HR20. The most annoying issues today with the HR20 I believe to come from MPEG4 locals on the HR20. Now that the new MPEG4 national channels are online I have done about a dozen test recordings and have drawn some conclusions:
- For MPEG2 SD programs the HR20 is just about perfect. I've never had a miss a recording, and all playback perfectly with good (not as smooth as Tivo yet) trick play performance
- For MPEG2 HD programs the HR20 is just about perfect. It doesn't miss recordings, and trick play is not quite as good as with SD but is definitely in the ballpark.
- For MPEG4 National HD programs the HR20 has been as reliable as I could ask. It did not miss any recordings, and trick play was on par with the MPEG2 HD programs. I will say trick play is a little jumpier, but in all honesty I feel this is more due to limitations of the MPEG4 codec and the increased compression.
- For MPEG4 Locals the HR20 is still kind of hit and miss. It has been pretty solid about recording what it's supposed to, but the playback is all over the map. I can say that I have seen uneven playback quality of the locals even when watching live TV so I really think there is just an issue with either the encoding of the HD locals or the feed being inconsistent and dropping frames.

All of this said (sorry for being so windy here), I think the HR20 is the right direction. Tivo is interesting still, but not my personal first choice. I want my HR20, and I would love D* to fix the HD locals and their inconsistencies with quality.

My biggest complaint is still the remote. I think D* needs to somewhat rethink the remote and even consider adding a few buttons.


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## uscboy (Sep 5, 2006)

I would love a new Series 2 DTivo that has hardware upgrades for faster speeds 
and can receive MPEG4 but is still based on their same OS and look and feel. 
Would definitely trade the HR20 for it.


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## dmurphy (Sep 28, 2006)

I sat on the fence for a long time about upgrading my HR10-250 to an HR20... but I did it, and couldn't be happier.

Let's face facts. The HR10-250 was a D.O.G. It was slow. Painfully slow. And, contrary to popular belief, it was somewhat unreliable - it would spontaneously reboot every now and again. I had lockups. And did I mention that it was SLOW? The 6.x software upgrade was way too little, way too late. We were stuck with the 3.x series of software for way too long. I missed things like, you know, folders. Basic stuff like that, which my DTiVo's had for quite some time. And which the HR20 has out of the box.

Frankly, I tolerated the HR10 because it was the only HD DVR available to me at the time. But I wouldn't put it in the same league as the standard DTiVo devices, or the HR20.

Would I give up my HR20 now just for the TiVo interface? Nope.

I think the HR20 interface works really well. Would I like dual buffers? Sure. But I have to say, having a 90-minute buffer instead of 2x30 minute buffers is pretty nice. There have been times where I've gone back at least 60 minutes in the buffer.

Now, I do honestly prefer the TiVo remote to the HR20 remote, so if I could use a TiVo remote via RF with the HR20, then that would be all the TiVo-y goodness I need.


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## UPEngineer (Aug 9, 2004)

If you would have asked me way back when when I got my HR20 I would have voted for Tivo...

But now fast forward to today and I would say HR20...

Yea, the HR20 is still quirky in some respects but they are coming a long ways and eliminating a lot of the quirks...And through the CE process some of our suggestions have actually made it into the firmware.

There is still a ways to go with the HR20 but I am sticking with it...DLB would be nice though 

TiVo was nice, but the HR20 is the future IMO.


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## mluntz (Jul 13, 2006)

My wife would certainly switch. She hates the HR20!


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## barryhammond (Sep 13, 2007)

I would trade for a Tivo. It is just plain easier to use. The only thing I've liked better about the HR20 is that I was able to replace the disk drive with an external drive. 

1. I like the tivo guide so mugh better than the grid guide in non-tivo D* systems. Using the guide, it should be easy to figure out he answer to "Is there anything on HDNet Movies that I should record this week?" Easy on a tivo, time consuming on a D*.
2. I like the 30 second tivo skip better because it is almost instantaneous. You don't need to stack them if they are fast. I don't like that it is a hidden feature. Call it a tie if the HR20 can ever figure out that when 30 second skips are stacked at the end of a show, it can figure that out by itself without me having to hit the play button before I can delete the show.
3. I've never deleted a season pass on a tivo when I didn't want to. The HR20 is way behind the curve in managing season passes and shows that I want to record. If you can't tell the difference, you are nuts. 
4. I've never wanted to smash my tivo with a baseball bat. 
5. I do like the HR20 for eSata disk replacement. I don't like opening the box or having to have a Linux box or some hacker messing around to perform what should be a routing addition of extra storage space. Make the HR20 solution be for "additional" storage and you have a real winner. 
6. I don't like the HR20 it showing me anything when I am in the guide. I don't like to watch previews of shows or have a show ruined by seeing something on the screen when I am not expecting it. 
7. Why does it take 2 button clicks to get to the guide on an HR20? I hit the guide button, show me the guide. Just another ease of use issue. 
8. I've had audio sync problems with both. I don't care if it is hard, but this is essential part of the experience of viewing a program with sound.


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## narrod (Jul 26, 2007)

7. Why does it take 2 button clicks to get to the guide on an HR20? I hit the guide button, show me the guide. Just another ease of use issue. 

????? It doesn't.....


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## mluntz (Jul 13, 2006)

narrod said:


> 7. Why does it take 2 button clicks to get to the guide on an HR20? I hit the guide button, show me the guide. Just another ease of use issue.
> 
> ????? It doesn't.....


You must be talking about the HDTV channel list, correct?


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## barryhammond (Sep 13, 2007)

You are right it only takes one guide click to get to the guide. Did it take 2 clicks in the past? In any case, it does take to clicks on the Exit button to exit from the guide back to a full screen picture.


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## uscboy (Sep 5, 2006)

barryhammond said:


> 7. Why does it take 2 button clicks to get to the guide on an HR20? I hit the guide button, show me the guide. Just another ease of use issue.


You can change that in the Settings now.


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## 2000voltz (Sep 21, 2007)

aint gettin' my HR- 20's!


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## daniellee (Jun 15, 2006)

I have done the Tivo “hacking” thing before (to get MRV) and while that kind of thing can be fun at first, it gets to be too much of a hassle after awhile (you had to “re-hack” after every major software upgrade if you wanted to stay current). Don’t really want to go down that road again.

I have an HR20 & an HR10 both hooked to my main TV and most nights I spend time using both. So which do I think is best?

For me currently it’s a tie. But the momentum is definitely with the HR20. If DirecTV continues to improve the HR20 at the current pace then it will soon be the winner for me. If they can give us MRV, something similar to “Suggestions” and a little better trick play (why can’t the Play button be a Play/Pause toggle?) then my vote would be “No, I would not trade”.

But for now I’ll have to abstain.


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## code4code5 (Aug 29, 2006)

Tivo : television
AOL : Internet

No question - I love the HR20 and my dislike for my HDVR2 is growing by the day.


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## kmill14 (Jun 12, 2007)

I voted for Tivo for a number of reasons:

1. DLB
2. Season Pass reliability
3. Record only on channels I get
4. Advanced Searching
5. Wishlists
6. Sound Effects
7. 30-second skip that skips and is actually 30 seconds
8. Easier interface with harmony remotes

plus the potential for:
9. better networking options
10. broadband content
11. Unbox library
12. hackability
13. Tivo's desktop application 
14. Swivel Search
15. TivoToGo and ComeBack

There are some things I would take from the HR-20:

1. PIG
2. Back button
3. Previous Search option
4. 1-touch record
5. Improved Speed


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

daniellee said:


> Now this is going to be an interesting thread to follow.
> 
> I think some of the CEers will tend to give a politically correct answer hoping that will influence their being chosen for the next round of hardware testing (I certainly would if I thought it would help). But Earl has asked on honest question that deserves an honest answer.


I really don't think Earl is like that at all. I'd be willing to bet quite a bit that Earl and/or whoever picks people for testing is more interested in people that post accurate bug reports than whether they have an HR20 tattoo on their arm.


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## fhedrick (Sep 18, 2007)

When I got my HR20 in June, I hated it and complained to D*, but it's come a long way since then. It still has a way to go, but I now prefer it to Tivo. I still have my HR10-250 in another room and go to it for suggestions, which I miss on the HR20. But I like going into the menu without losing picture and audio from the program I'm watching. The software upgrades have definitely improved it.


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## NorfolkBruh (Jun 9, 2007)

If I understand what you are asking... ALL things being equal (which they are not) then I will NEVER get rid of my HR10. The ONLY reason for downgrading to the HR20 is because I'm a notorious "first adopter" and can't help myself!

I want my DVR to record what I want it to record every time I want it to record it the way it was designed to record it and even after a year of owning this piece of crap it STILL misses recordings that I've scheduled, cuts short recordings, and is simply not intuitive enough for me.

I even prefer the slow TIVO (I'm still on 3.1f) over the NR for HR20. It's not a 'content' only decision in my household. Oh and since I'm in Norfolk, VA I only have OTA HD via separate antenna anyways.

Norfolk


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## phat78boy (Sep 12, 2007)

The HR20 certainly has plenty of potential, but right now, Tivo would be the winner. I'm more worried that the HR20 might be "abandoned" before it gets to where it needs to be.


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## narrod (Jul 26, 2007)

barryhammond said:


> You are right it only takes one guide click to get to the guide. Did it take 2 clicks in the past? In any case, it does take to clicks on the Exit button to exit from the guide back to a full screen picture.


No it does not. One click clears the guide.


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## narrod (Jul 26, 2007)

NorfolkBruh said:


> If I understand what you are asking... ALL things being equal (which they are not) then I will NEVER get rid of my HR10.
> 
> It's funny. For three years folks trashed the 10-250 for all its' problems. Bad software, limited features, unreliable hardware and, now, it is the holy grail and so
> much better than the new platform can possibly be.


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## kmill14 (Jun 12, 2007)

I am still confused by this poll by the way...what does this mean?

"if you were given the option to trade it for an MPEG-4 DirecTivo.
You can not trade it for a Series 3 based TiVo, because there is no guarantee that any of the features that are in the Series 3 would be allowed on the DirecTV system."

Are you still asking us to compare the old DirecTivo's (w/ MPEG4 capabilities) to an HR-20, or do you want us to choose between what HR-20 is (or soon will be) and what Tivo offers on its top HD boxes today (that just happen to not work with DirecTV?

There is nothing stopping Tivo's Series 3/HD boxes to work with direcTV except for DirecTV. 

Right now, the HR-20 is a recording box, and not a very good one at that. It will "soon" have VOD and on-line scheduling, but it is still going to be way short on features compared to the full-featured Tivo boxes. I also doubt it will ever have DLB, but thats just my opinion.


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## davring (Jan 13, 2007)

I would equate going back to a Tivo like going back to a black and white TV, ain't going to happen.


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## NorfolkBruh (Jun 9, 2007)

NorfolkBruh said:


> If I understand what you are asking... ALL things being equal (which they are not) then I will NEVER get rid of my HR10.





narrod said:


> It's funny. For three years folks trashed the 10-250 for all its' problems. Bad software, limited features, unreliable hardware and, now, it is the holy grail and so
> much better than the new platform can possibly be.


That may be true narrod and I am SURE it's NOT a grail, holy or otherwise, but it DOES record my shows in their entirety. It absolutely had it's problems but it recorded (at least for me). I miss several shows a month with the HR20 from the beginning to as recently as last week.

No, for my basic recording I still depend on my HR10.


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## CousCous (Sep 17, 2006)

The TiVo interface is awful in my opinion and I could never live with it. I like having control over my home theater and the HR20 has the options that let me do that. The DirecTiVos never have.

Using a TiVo is like having someone hold your hand when you cross the street.


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## barrytest (Jan 29, 2007)

I basically like the HR-20. The one thing I find really annoying is the inability to SIMPLY record a college football game every week. The way things are set up now results in a bunch of garbage I don't want in the the to list. I then have to manually delete ALL of the pre-game and replay crap multiple times. If the Tivo would solve this problem I would consider one. If anybody knows how to do the above on a HR-20 an easier way please let me know.


Thanks,

Barry


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## lguvenoz (Aug 23, 2006)

daniellee said:


> I think some of the CEers will tend to give a politically correct answer hoping that will influence their being chosen for the next round of hardware testing (I certainly would if I thought it would help). But Earl has asked on honest question that deserves an honest answer.


As a CEer I would hope that no one would go for the politically correct answer here for one major reason. Someone that is only going to be politically correct is worthless for doing any sort of testing. D* only benefits if we are being honest here. I applaud your honesty in choosing not to vote. I would be curious as to where you saw the strengths and weaknesses of each box as you use them every day???


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## narrod (Jul 26, 2007)

I always choose the game from the guide for recording. So far, it has worked each
time. I've only had one short recording and that may have been my error.


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## bobnielsen (Jun 29, 2006)

Hmm, most comments favor the Tivo, but the poll is currently 50-50.

I haven't used a HR10, but comparing the R15 to the HDVR2, I have come to prefer the Directv version, although it took a while.

I have had very few problems with either of those (or my HR20-700).


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Before I vote, Earl, would the TiVo have an eSATA port and functionality? I know the Series 3 HD TiVo has the eSATA port.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

I really dislike the HD problems with TiVos. Wonder how they use or expect to use the eSATA function on the Series 3 TiVo. 

But the eSATA is an existing, if not supported, function on the HR20, so it would be logical to think it would be supported on the TiVo.


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## erhan (Aug 28, 2007)

Looks like the rules of the game is a little different in this poll, compared to the other one at http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=103188. If hacks are allowed, then my HR10 will beat my HR20 hands down.

Almost all features HR20 offers today, and even more is possible on a hacked HR10:
- Downloading of recordings and burning to DVD or archive on a mediaserver
- Caller ID
- Web Interface (Tivoweb) -- There is no faster way to find shows
- (MRV) Multi-room viewing
- Music, Photos & More (which actually works as opposed to HR20) Check out Galleon.


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## kmill14 (Jun 12, 2007)

rich584 said:


> I really dislike the HD problems with TiVos. Wonder how they use or expect to use the eSATA function on the Series 3 TiVo.
> 
> But the eSATA is an existing, if not supported, function on the HR20, so it would be logical to think it would be supported on the TiVo.


eStata works on S3's and Tivo HDs, it just isn't officially supported, just like DTV.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

lguvenoz said:


> As a CEer I would hope that no one would go for the politically correct answer here for one major reason. Someone that is only going to be politically correct is worthless for doing any sort of testing. D* only benefits if we are being honest here. I applaud your honesty in choosing not to vote. I would be curious as to where you saw the strengths and weaknesses of each box as you use them every day???


Once again I have to profess my ignorance. What is a "CE"? I gather it's sort of a beta test, but am not sure. I've always assumed that "NR" meant national release, is that correct?


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## cdc101 (Jan 9, 2007)

Earl...I accidently picked the TiVo over my HR-20 in the poll.

Could you change my vote to 'keeping the HR-20' please?


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

kmill14 said:


> eStata works on S3's and Tivo HDs, it just isn't officially supported, just like DTV.


Oh goody, information. Tell me more. Does the internal drive go dormant? Or does it work as it does on a PC? By that I mean two separate and distinct HDs. Don't want no more marriages between HDs.

Don't tell me the HD Tivo, what is it the HD 210 or something like that, has eSATA functionality. The only reason I never bought one for D* was the price of upgrading the internal drives.


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## Thaedron (Jun 29, 2007)

There are things that I prefer about my Tivo based DVRs. There are things about my D* branded DVRs. 

The Tivo core DVR functions seem to be more solid than the D* core DVR funtions. I think D* DVRs have a LOT of potential, but they suffer from some fundamental shortcomings.


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## Kentstater (Jun 18, 2004)

Tivo : television
AOL : Internet

Inertia never sleeps.


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## CliffV (Jan 24, 2006)

I voted Tivo. The user interface is just more consistent and easy to use.

That said, the HR20 is improving every month now. Ask me again in a year.


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## VicF (Sep 5, 2006)

Ease of use, identification of new vs repeat, searches, wishlists ABSOLUTELY I would go for a TIVO. That being said the OTA tuners are much better in the HR20, probably just newer stuff driving that though.


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## uscboy (Sep 5, 2006)

Obviously this is apples and oranges to a point. Any 'new' Tivo version that 
would debut today would not be the same as the HR10-250 with MPEG4 
capabilities. It would have upgraded guts and would be faster with a more 
polished interface... things that weren't as cost-effective 3 years ago or so.

Complaining that the Tivo interface is too simple and that it's like someone 
holding your hand is a fine reason if that bothers you. But I bet most that find 
traversing the HR20's menu system cumbersome would like that feature back. I 
am still baffled why my "Recordings" (To Do, Series Links, etc) are under Help and 
Settings. Seems like from the top down the HR20's menu system isn't organized 
very well.

Like Auto-Correct on Trickplay, I think this too would be best left to the customer 
to decide... offer both. Charge more for a "DVR w/Tivo" versus just a basic DVR. 
I'll pay, I know that... assuming the system is left 'open' so to speak so that the 
user community can add features and monkey with stuff themselves.


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## daniellee (Jun 15, 2006)

rich584 said:


> Once again I have to profess my ignorance. What is a "CE"? I gather it's sort of a beta test, but am not sure. I've always assumed that "NR" meant national release, is that correct?


rich584, you are correct on both counts. More on CE's here.


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## arturo611 (Sep 8, 2007)

mluntz said:


> My wife would certainly switch. She hates the HR20!


+1


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

mateom199 said:


> The beauty of the DirecTivo was that the monthly charge was only D*'s DVR monthly charge. If you have an HR20 right now, your paying waht you would be paying with a Tivo.
> 
> When I bought my HR10-250, it was close to $600, but that was a purchase, not a lease. To me, $600 to own vs $299 to lease the HR20 is pretty comparable.


Given that I spent $1000 for my HR10-250.... 
I could get 3 HR20's "leased"... and still have enough for 20 months of the DVR fee.... and that is if I had to pay the full $299 for them...

I can even get $50 for my HR10-250 right now.... so what was the benefit of owning it?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

barryhammond said:


> 1. I like the tivo guide so mugh better than the grid guide in non-tivo D* systems. Using the guide, it should be easy to figure out he answer to "Is there anything on HDNet Movies that I should record this week?" Easy on a tivo, time consuming on a D*.


You can just highlight the channel number, hit INFO... and get the entier 14days of guide data for the one channel.

So how is it any more time consuming then what was on the TiVo for your example?



barryhammond said:


> 7. Why does it take 2 button clicks to get to the guide on an HR20? I hit the guide button, show me the guide. Just another ease of use issue.


Not sure if you knew or not... but for #7, you have the option to change that (have for a while now). you can choose if you want it to go to the filter or the guide


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

daniellee said:


> Now this is going to be an interesting thread to follow.
> 
> I think some of the CEers will tend to give a politically correct answer hoping that will influence their being chosen for the next round of hardware testing (I certainly would if I thought it would help). But Earl has asked on honest question that deserves an honest answer.


If anyone actually thinks that.... please leave the forum...
Seriously...

Anyone thinks they have to "alter" their response for any reason...
Then it probably is time for me to step back as well.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

barrytest said:


> I basically like the HR-20. The one thing I find really annoying is the inability to SIMPLY record a college football game every week. The way things are set up now results in a bunch of garbage I don't want in the the to list. I then have to manually delete ALL of the pre-game and replay crap multiple times. If the Tivo would solve this problem I would consider one. If anybody knows how to do the above on a HR-20 an easier way please let me know.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Barry


That really just boils down to the content providers, and networks... inputing guide data that either system could use.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

rich584 said:


> Before I vote, Earl, would the TiVo have an eSATA port and functionality? I know the Series 3 HD TiVo has the eSATA port.


Possible eSATA port and network port.... but you can not assume that it would automatically get all the other SA-TiVo features.


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## Agrajag (Jun 22, 2004)

I believe this poll, if it's going to be taken at face value, is pretty flawed.

First, you can already see some people who missed the point that this would be some sort of new TiVo that would be traded for.

Second, the poll is being taken on a forum that's fairly pro-DirecTV and likely includes a lot of CE people. Take this poll on the TiVo forums and see what you get.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

erhan said:


> Looks like the rules of the game is a little different in this poll, compared to the other one at http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=103188. If hacks are allowed, then my HR10 will beat my HR20 hands down.
> 
> Almost all features HR20 offers today, and even more is possible on a hacked HR10:
> - Downloading of recordings and burning to DVD or archive on a mediaserver
> ...


Yes, but you have to be one willing to do the hacks...
Granted it has gotten easier because of the work of a lot of people out there.. but it is still not something that my "mom" could do.

Basically you are saying you like TiVo... so you can add all the stuff they didn't put in there... and customize to the DVR you would like to have....

Not many people would argue that they would like an "open" platform that they could customize to EXACTLY the way they want....


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

uscboy said:


> I
> am still baffled why my "Recordings" (To Do, Series Links, etc) are under Help and
> Settings. Seems like from the top down the HR20's menu system isn't organized
> very well.


FYI: You can hit LIST, Yellow to take you to your ToDo list (and then have access to the Series Links, and the other settings


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Agrajag said:


> I believe this poll, if it's going to be taken at face value, is pretty flawed.
> 
> First, you can already see some people who missed the point that this would be some sort of new TiVo that would be traded for.
> 
> Second, the poll is being taken on a forum that's fairly pro-DirecTV and likely includes a lot of CE people. Take this poll on the TiVo forums and see what you get.


All polls on internet forum boards are "flawed". No one is going to argue that.

To your "First" point.... Yes, it would be a "new" one... but what is to say it would not have the same functional limitations of the "old" one.... there are reasons why DirecTV requested features to be disabled in the TiVo platform... so who is to say that a lot of those features would not be disabled in a new one.

To your "Second" point.... The question is specifically directed at those that have an HR20.... not to those that have only "heard" about it, or tried it for 15-30 minutes...

It can take a LONG time, to get used to the DVR+ interface, especially if you used another interface for a long time.

So sure... I would expect a different answer on a TIVO forum (like TCF)... but then again... it would be flawed as well... as the users there are going with what they know... vs what they may or may not know...


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## say-what (Dec 14, 2006)

Not a chance.

I had an HR10-250, then added a HR20. After about 4 months with both, I gladly retired my HR10-250 and have never considered going back. Really, the HR20 has worked great and the interface is actually better to me than TIVO. I can't stand using my parent's SD DirecTIVO's or my brother's standalones with cable.


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## daniellee (Jun 15, 2006)

lguvenoz said:


> As a CEer I would hope that no one would go for the politically correct answer here for one major reason. Someone that is only going to be politically correct is worthless for doing any sort of testing. D* only benefits if we are being honest here. I applaud your honesty in choosing not to vote. I would be curious as to where you saw the strengths and weaknesses of each box as you use them every day???


Lewis, I suppose it's a matter of personal preference and your typical viewing habits. Those that watch a lot of sports (I do not) seem to miss DLB the most. I personally miss "Suggestions" and 30 second skip (vs. slip) the most. For me both DVRs are solid performers and both do the basics well. My HR20s have never let me down in any major way.

I think the HR20 is gradually winning over the "I Love My Tivo" crowd for three reasons:
The bugs are all but gone now.
People have used the HR20s enough now to become as familiar with them and as use to them as they are with their Tivos. They have gotten past the re-learning curve.
Cool features not on Tivo&#8230; DirecTV Active, DOD, remote booking, game lounge with more to come (MRV is at the top of my wish list).
I'll admit I didn't like the HR20 at first. But now I know alot of that was because I "knew" my DTivo like the back of my hand and the HR20 was "different" and unfamiliar. Now that I "know" then both equally the HR20s are OK and are close to passing Tivo in my book.


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## VLaslow (Aug 16, 2006)

I voted to remain with the HR20 for several reasons:

1. I can select and record a program much more quickly on the HR20 and don't expect Tivo to fix that.

2. I prefer to see my selected program playing while I fumble about the menu's. I don't expect Tivo to add that.

3. Guide issues, missing or wrong, impact both Tivo and HR20's.

4. Tivo doesn't, at this time, have the financial capability to "stay in the game."

5. Tivo's pricing schemes don't work for me (I do own an hr10-250 purchased for the full $1000 in the very early days).

I know what I have, I know what I had (the wife is still using the Hr10), and I much prefer what I have.


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## NorfolkBruh (Jun 9, 2007)

VLaslow said:


> ...SNIP...​
> 3. Guide issues, missing or wrong, impact both Tivo and HR20's.
> 
> ...SNIP...​
> I know what I have, I know what I had (the wife is still using the H10), and I much prefer what I have.


I 'hear' you but just check out the Greys Anatomy thread on this forum to see that your number 3 is not completely correct!


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## DCSholtis (Aug 7, 2002)

I had a HR10-250. But once the HR20-700 came out the HR10-250 was relegated to a nearby landfill and I've never looked back. The HR20 is the only game in town.


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## lguvenoz (Aug 23, 2006)

daniellee said:


> Lewis, I suppose it's a matter of personal preference and your typical viewing habits. Those that watch a lot of sports (I do not) seem to miss DLB the most. I personally miss "Suggestions" and 30 second skip (vs. slip) the most. For me both DVRs are solid performers and both do the basics well. My HR20s have never let me down in any major way.
> 
> I think the HR20 is gradually winning over the "I Love My Tivo" crowd for three reasons:
> The bugs are all but gone now.
> ...


Danny,

Great response. I agree with your points, and appreciate the great insights. Earl how about we start a new poll to ask people if they would take a new UltimateTV box??? 

My wife is the Tivo lover in the house, and me personally have never gotten over letting go of my UTV unit... 

I am just at the point where I would not want to go back the Tivo route as it is certain to still be months after its release before it gets all its own issues sorted out.


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## mateom199 (Sep 14, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Given that I spent $1000 for my HR10-250....
> I could get 3 HR20's "leased"... and still have enough for 20 months of the DVR fee.... and that is if I had to pay the full $299 for them...
> 
> I can even get $50 for my HR10-250 right now.... so what was the benefit of owning it?


Few things I'd like to respond to.

First, isn't it D*'s fault that your $1000 box depreciated so quickly, not Tivo's? If D* hadn't pushed these boxes, then mere months later turned around and dumped them, you wouldn't have a $50 paperweight........you just can't blame Tivo for that one. D* knew about its MPEG4 plans long before the HR10 came out....why didn't they make Tivo include it?

I was lucky enough to sell my HR10 on ebay for $400, and used that to get an HR20.

Finally, a question. If you lease an HR20, and the HR20 malfunctions, is D* supposed to replace it free of charge? If I lease an HR20,D* still owns it. If that HR20 dies randomly, at no fault of myself, am I supposed to pay for a replacement? That's what I'm being told by multiple service reps.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

I voted no, but I thought about the question longer than I thought I might.

Earl, I, and others have all summarized the many strengths of the HR20 before:
One touch record, two touch Series Link!
Recording defaults! (I link this one.)
One tuner sat, with 2 tuner OTA
Overlapped recordings on one tuner
EASY to replace disk space (eSATA drive is SO VERY SIMPLE!)
Instant priority changes
Mark and Delete for easier mass deletions
Group play and group delete
Hiding SD duplicates
Having a future with new features at DIRECTV 

What made it hard for me to vote: DLB. Plain and simple 

Some things that Tivo still has better than the HR20 that I enjoyed to varying degrees (please do not consider the count of items, this meant as a punchlist as most of these are fairly small weight):
Instant skip to tick/beginning/end
Clock hidden feature
Silky smooth live to buffer transition and trickplay
Channels I want to receive
More detailed guide data
More filter options
More settings for retention of shows
Retention settings for manual recurring recordings
Better, more user friendly history information
Manual recordings that are padded are listed as the name of the first show, not the previous show. (To balance this item, the HR20, in the detailed info of a manual recording, lists ALL the shows that were recorded in a manual recording.)

BTW: I hated with an architect's anger that the TiVo couldn't overlap recordings on one tuner. What a complete failure of programming, IMHO.

BTW #2: The effect of being a CE'er: I've been a passionate participant of the CE program. I like working with the programmers and people I know at DIRECTV. I very much see a beautifully bright, exciting future for the DIRECTV DVR future. But I see the flip side; I see the instability of beta test code and that too clouded my thinking for a few moments. Then I put things back into proper perspective. So my point is, not all CE'ers are going to immediately go all for the HR20.

One other thing that disturbs me about the Tivos, that family hasn't seen any real new features in several years. Seems pretty stagnant to me.

Cheers,
Tom


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## ArthurKnowles (Aug 24, 2007)

I'm hoping that Tivo will provide a new Mpeg4 compatible tunner next year. If so, I will upgrade. So long as it is hackable, or directly supports TivoToGo, so Ic an extract video to my computer and/or PDA/Smartphone.


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## armophob (Nov 13, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> One other thing that disturbs me about the Tivos, that family hasn't seen any real new features in several years. Seems pretty stagnant to me.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


And neither would have the HR20 without the CE process. What would have been the effect if the Tivo people would have allowed this in their production forum. I feel terribly guilty for my vote for this reason alone. I feel I have betrayed the staff involved with the development of these boxes. I feel so dirty. :sure:


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## pdawg17 (Jul 17, 2006)

I voted no but if it were a Tivo that were hackable like the HR10-250, I'd think about it...overall I like the HR20 better, but I miss TivoWebPlus and its ability to automatically pad shows if possible, being able to look at any info you wanted remotely, and other things like extraction (are we still not supposed to talk about that? )

Since the HR20 seems to sometimes start shows late and end early, I really miss the automatic padding of TWP...you could set all SPs to start and end on time and TWP would check to see if there was another show to record before or after and if not, would add time to before/after the recording...that would seem like an easy thing to do on the HR20...hmmm...I wonder if that is on the "wishlist"? Better go check...:ramble over:


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## Bighead (Jun 2, 2006)

If I read the poll correctly (and there's certainly no guarantee that I did), the choice would be to trade my HR20 for an HR10 that also does MPEG4. I can't base it on the user interface, since I believe that is primarily dependent on what you're used to using. I can't base it on perceived software stability, since all new products have bugs.
With regard to features, the HR10 has DLB whereas the HR20 does not. That would be nice, but I find myself not missing it as much as I did a year ago. It's just not enough to make me switch, so I voted "no".

That said, I would probably get a new box (not as replacement for, but in addition to the HR20), since I like shiny new toys (that's why I got the HR20 even though I had a perfectly functional HR10).


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## High Technology (May 26, 2007)

After almost 3 years with the HR10-250, and nearly a year with my first of two HR20s, the HR20 has come a long way... It's still missing some key features like the dual buffers, but has others that compensate.

Both boxes have had their issues -- about a year ago the Tivo missed a whole bunch of season pass recordings, supposedly due to bad guide data. Similarly, the HR20 wasn't very relable until recently. Both boxes also do what I need them to do -- record my programming choices.

What really sets them apart is the ease of the user interface. My $1,000 HR10-250 now resides in my kids playroom, where it covers about a dozen season passes for the kids. My 6 year old is fully fluent on the basic operation, and my 4 year old is about 60% of the way there (mostly since she is just beginning to be able to read). Another poster used a Mac vs. Windows analogy, which I think is fitting but I would consider the HR20 to be Windows XP (not windows 3.1). It just calls for a more of a technically-oriented user at certain times...


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## Swheat (Aug 10, 2005)

I really did like the Tivo, but one of the things that was a constant irration to me was the extreme slowness. Whenever I added a season pass, I might was get up and do something else for a few minutes, I wasn't going to be able to use the receiver for a while.

I didn't want to have to "hack" my to Tivo to add more recording space. Adding an ESATA drive and expanding my capacity is easy as pie now.

The HDTivo had a few things the HR20 doesn't have, but the HR20 has a few features (important to me) that the Tivo didn't have.

On a side note, I also like the lease model that D* uses now. My HR20 will end up costing me quite a bit less in the long run than the HDTivo did.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

armophob said:


> And neither would have the HR20 without the CE process. What would have been the effect if the Tivo people would have allowed this in their production forum. I feel terribly guilty for my vote for this reason alone. I feel I have betrayed the staff involved with the development of these boxes. I feel so dirty. :sure:


There is an official and silent beta test program for Tivo's development cycle. And that is about all that can be said about that, given the non-disclosure agreements participants are required to sign.

Cheers,
Tom


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## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

I find the HR20 generally easier to use, I'm afraid. I sold my Tivos (save for my brother's, and he's moving out next summer and it's on an SD tv, so...).

I'm very happy with my HR20s.


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## jcurrier31 (Dec 15, 2006)

I bet this is a lot closer than all the TIVO Fanboy would expect


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## Que (Apr 15, 2006)

Wow! Very close.

No, I would not trade my HR20 for a TiVo *107 50.47%*

Yes, I would trade my HR20 for a TiVo *105 49.53%*

When I bought my HR10 I knew I was going to get the HR20 when it came out.

People say that because it's not a "TiVo" that they are already behind the eight ball. That is so wrong. Most people just want a DVR that works and easy to use. I really don't care who makes it, I bet most don't either. In time I'm sure it will get there. They just need to fix the bugs and add the options that most user's want.


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## Agrajag (Jun 22, 2004)

Earl Bonovich said:


> All polls on internet forum boards are "flawed". No one is going to argue that.


First, "all" is a pretty strong word there. Second, some are better than others. Most are pretty useless and often only give results the posting party expected to see generally due to the tone presented.



> Yes, it would be a "new" one... but what is to say it would not have the same functional limitations of the "old" one.... there are reasons why DirecTV requested features to be disabled in the TiVo platform... so who is to say that a lot of those features would not be disabled in a new one.


That's some info that could help this poll. If you're stating that the things many prefer about the TiVo would be removed then of course it's going to be hard for TiVo fans to say they'd still prefer the TiVo. You might as well say, "Would you want a TiVo over an HR-20 simply because you prefer TiVo's in general?"



> It can take a LONG time, to get used to the DVR+ interface, especially if you used another interface for a long time.


My mother can't figure out her basic phone and yet never had a problem with her TiVo. After months she's still trying to figure out the HR-20 they sent her. I'd agree with this comment 100%. That should tell DirecTV something.

If you recall, I posted a shocked message about the HR-20 when I got mine as it was much better (for me) than what I'd read of it from others. I also NEVER liked my HR10-250 mainly for two reasons--It didn't support Native mode and it would become a slow mess after a short period of time. Aside from that it was very simple to use.



> So sure... I would expect a different answer on a TIVO forum (like TCF)... but then again... it would be flawed as well... as the users there are going with what they know... vs what they may or may not know...


My main question comes down to the purpose. Is this your curiosity? If so, then it's not a big deal and you get what you get and if it's off, no harm done. If it's for some other purpose, like a semi-official one, then that's concerning as it might give a skewed perspective that, for example, just as many people now like the HR20 as like the TiVo and that's just not, in my view, at all accurate (just look at the posts of people taking it that way).

Again, I see benefits of both and based on the way the poll was worded, voted against the TiVo. I like my HR20 but if this new fictional TiVo did everything right I'd want it over what we have now. MRV, DLB, slick interface, fast transport responses, expandable, etc.


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## armophob (Nov 13, 2006)

Kentstater said:


> Tivo : television
> AOL : Internet
> 
> Inertia never sleeps.


When explaining the new box to current Tivo owners, I truly use this type reference. I explain that they are using the AOL of satellite dvrs.


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## jakimj (Jan 19, 2007)

Definitely not Windows 3.0 vs Mac 0S X - more like Linux vs Mac

A year ago, we were 2 days away from returning the HR-20 - it was crap.

Now - 

My wife is a convert - "why would I..."
My non-tech English major son is a master with the HR-20

HR 20 is a solid box, and could use a little look and feel work. Not much ... because that always backfires and an CLI or API for writing apps to control functions and add functionality from a home computer.

I'll leave D* if they go back to Tivo. Well ... Maybe ... lets see what the offer is. I like my HR-20

BTW - I do the CE thing - I am a bit of a wirehead, make my living on satellites and networks. Even had a part in a set top box before (ReplayTV based -). D* has in the last year done something I've never seen done this well before.

So lots of Tivo news (appeals court going to rule in their favor against Echostar) and D* news (management and reorg changes). This have anything to do with it?


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

I love TIVO, still use my series 1 Sony with my H20... but...

The HR20 is faster, allows simultaneous sd and hd output (a must have for my setup), I like the grid guide better than Tivo's text guide, Esata is so much easier than hacking a large drive into a Tivo, OTA tuner in my Tivo sucks, DTivo didn't even have one (why I got rid of it for a series 1, I had a T60). Music and Photos is handy when I just want background music. I voted No. I like the direction the HR20 is heading. Directv units add new features much faster than Tivo Inc. did.


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## sshams95 (Sep 2, 2006)

Good topic and discussion.

I vote No....I would not trade in my HR20 for a MPEG4 compliant Tivo.

All I want is DLB and PIP on the HR20 and everything would be perfect. I probably wouldn't have said that 3-4 months ago. The HR20 is an easier DVR to use and has many advantages IMHO over the TIVO.


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## kmill14 (Jun 12, 2007)

I'm amazed people could look at all the features over at www.tivo.com and decide the HR-20 is better today than all the things you can get with a Tivo.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

kmill14 said:


> I'm amazed people could look at all the features over at www.tivo.com and decide the HR-20 is better today than all the things you can get with a Tivo.


Remember, Earl's question is not what can be done on a Series 3, but what could be done on the HR10-250 with the addition of Ka tuners and MPEG4 decoders (and enough CPU and IO bandwidth to do the job.)

That said, what features are you most interested in that the HR20 doesn't do today?

(Mine is clearly DLB) 

Cheers,
Tom


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## kmill14 (Jun 12, 2007)

kmill14 said:


> I'm amazed people could look at all the features over at www.tivo.com and decide the HR-20 is better today than all the things you can get with a Tivo.


To follow-up, if DTV subscribers had access to a Tivo MPEG4-capable box with things like:

1. Advanced Search functionality and Swivel Search
2. Smarter recording functionality (so you don't keep recording old episodes over and over)
3. Broadband content
4. Home Movie Sharing
5. Tivo2Go - put recordings on any number of devices, and vice versa
6. Unbox - how big will DTV's library be, and how much will it cost for new movies?

I'm not saying anyone would use all of these features, but knowing that you can use them is certainly better than not. If we're going to have a poll about what we want for a DVR, then put it all out there.

There are certainly things Tivo could do better, but as far as major functionality goes, all the HR-20 can do is record shows...and it can't even do that right all the time.


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## kmill14 (Jun 12, 2007)

Tom Robertson said:


> Remember, Earl's question is not what can be done on a Series 3, but what could be done on the HR10-250 with the addition of Ka tuners and MPEG4 decoders (and enough CPU and IO bandwidth to do the job.)
> 
> That said, what features are you most interested in that the HR20 doesn't do today?
> 
> ...


Yes, I know what his question was, and I can't tell how it was any different than the other poll. I'd love to know why there needs to be a comparison between a 3+YO box and one barely a year old.

Certainly DLB should go without saying at this point, but overall, there is no reason as a customer I should not expect the best possible device for my TV viewing needs. DTV has always half-assed it for whatever reason, and they just want their customers to be happy with it


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

mateom199 said:


> Few things I'd like to respond to.
> 
> First, isn't it D*'s fault that your $1000 box depreciated so quickly, not Tivo's? If D* hadn't pushed these boxes, then mere months later turned around and dumped them, you wouldn't have a $50 paperweight........you just can't blame Tivo for that one. D* knew about its MPEG4 plans long before the HR10 came out....why didn't they make Tivo include it?
> 
> ...


I have zero regrets about paying the $1k for my HD-DTivo... I have been DVRing HD content now for what 5 years almost?

The HR10-250 started to drop in price... way before it was even announced that there would not be another DTiVo unit....

So that isn't even part of teh issue.

What I posted about the $$$ was the notion that people are willing to spend $600 on a unit... because they "own" it... .which does you no good, with out DirecTV service.... and you still have to find willing to pay for it, if you want to sell it to someone...

For the most part (I can't recall one recently, or in a long while)... if your HR20 fails... they usually do replace it... at most for the cost of shipping..

What if paid $1000 for the HR10-250 and it died? If you didn't get an extended warranty.... you were on the hook to buy a new one... DirecTV did replace mine, because i was in the 90 warranty window.... but there are many of people that had to purchase new ones, or repair it on their own...

Which ever way... my original post had ZERO to do with "depreciation" of the HR10-250.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Agrajag said:


> That's some info that could help this poll. If you're stating that the things many prefer about the TiVo would be removed then of course it's going to be hard for TiVo fans to say they'd still prefer the TiVo. You might as well say, "Would you want a TiVo over an HR-20 simply because you prefer TiVo's in general?"


That is why I stated in the original question, that you are to consider the feature set as that defined in the current DirecTivo... anything that is available in a STOCK DirecTivo would be in this "new" unit.



Agrajag said:


> My mother can't figure out her basic phone and yet never had a problem with her TiVo. After months she's still trying to figure out the HR-20 they sent her. I'd agree with this comment 100%. That should tell DirecTV something.


My 6yr knows how to use the HR20 (and the GUI in general)... 
My mother still calls me two years into TiVo usage, on how to do things....

So what does that tell "DirecTV"



Agrajag said:


> My main question comes down to the purpose. Is this your curiosity? If so, then it's not a big deal and you get what you get and if it's off, no harm done.


Actually if you go back over the last year... we have gone through "waves" of new users... and a lot are previous TiVo users...

So my "curiosity" is to get an idea, of the "current" pulse between the units.



Agrajag said:


> Again, I see benefits of both and based on the way the poll was worded, voted against the TiVo. I like my HR20 but if this new fictional TiVo did everything right I'd want it over what we have now. MRV, DLB, slick interface, fast transport responses, expandable, etc.


TiVo, Inc... is just a 3rd party vendor, with regards to the DirecTiVo (and ComTiVo as well)... they need to code to what the carriers want.

So while the SA-TiVo's are TiVo, Incs... And have all those other features.... some of those "things" on a SA, that TiVo is known for... may or may not be in TiVo implementations when it is used as a thrid party.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

kmill14 said:


> Yes, I know what his question was, and I can't tell how it was any different than the other poll. I'd love to know why there needs to be a comparison between a 3+YO box and one barely a year old.
> 
> Certainly DLB should go without saying at this point, but overall, there is no reason as a customer I should not expect the best possible device for my TV viewing needs. DTV has always half-assed it for whatever reason, and they just want their customers to be happy with it


Because there is ZERO guarantee that any Series 3 feature would be in a new box....

The DirecTivos didn't have all the features of a Series 2...
So what makes you think that a new box... developed FOR DirecTV... would all of a sudden, have every feature?

Let's see what the ComcastTiVo is going to be like in comparison to a Series 3... and that will give you a good idea on what happens when the TiVo is a 3rd party application...


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

TiVo, what's that? Some 20th century curiosity? 

Seriously, I am just as pleased with the HR20 as I ever was with the TiVo, and one thing puts me over the edge, in the HR20's favor: 

In four years of TiVo ownership/leasing, I believe I had one, count'em one, update that gave me new features. I am sure that there have been over 50 updates that introduced new features so far with the HR20. Sure, the software has also fixed issues that shouldn't have been there in a retail shipping box, but that's not the point for me. 

My HR20 can FFx4, remote book, use On Demand, has Search Folders, has a new GUI, autocorrection, proper alphabetization, on and on and on. My HR20 didn't have any of those a year ago. 

TiVo? One update. No one listening at DIRECTV. What a difference!


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

I like some of the features on my HR20 and after 3 weeks, mine has been very reliable. 

That being said, if I had the choice, I'd go back to a tivo.


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## nsw (Apr 20, 2007)

I am curious what the non-techie spouses and friends of dbstalk-members think, since they are much closer to representing D*'s "average" customer (and much more numerous) than those of us on this forum.

I know that I am OK with the HR20 now, but my wife won't go near it. She prefers to watch in standard-def w/our old R10 Tivo. I am forbidden to replace the old 55" SD Mitsu in the family room because it would mean saying bye-bye to the Tivo and having to use "that thing."

I am getting ready to help move my parents to HD and I am NOT looking forward to having to explain the HR20 interface. One could consider that elder abuse.

I voted for the Tivo, but it was close. The HR20 is a powerful piece of machinery; DirecTV has come a long way with it over the last 10 months. I want it to succeed; I'm a big D* fan. But there are so many little things wrong with it. The biggest negative for me is "ease-of-use." The remote is clunky. I still have to look at the buttons to see what I'm pressing. Make a peanut option, D*. The interace isn't intuitive, nor is menu navigation. I've set people up with Tivos over the years and they are blasting around the channels and menus in 30 seconds... that definitely doesn't happen on the HR20.

In sum, I would send this HR20 back in a heartbeat for anything HD with a Tivo sticker on the front. I would be crowned hero of the family immediately.


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## Groundhog45 (Nov 10, 2005)

This is almost a toss up. There are features that I like on each. And I guess many other people think the same since after I voted, the total was 127 to 127. Since I enjoy testing, I would like to try an upgraded Tivo, but I voted to keep my HR20 for now.


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## TDTivo (Nov 3, 2006)

Considering my screen name, I am suprised to say I would keep the HR20. I currently have a 10-250 sitting next to an HR20 under my Sony monitor. I use the`Tivo to record HD OTA and the HR20 primarily for D* record/watching. Side by side the D* box wins out! Also, much to my suprise my wife now seems to like the HR20 over the Tivo. When I watch the Tivo it seems somewhat "Old School" but, I do still use it...you cant beat 4 tuners & DoD to 1 Monitor.:new_Eyecr


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## jakimj (Jan 19, 2007)

nsw said:


> I voted for the Tivo, but it was close. ...
> In sum, I would send this HR20 back in a heartbeat for anything HD with a Tivo sticker on the front.


A little conflicted? Sometimes change is good.

My mother (75), no college, still spins VHS tapes because they work. But she can walk uphill at about 18 minutes per mile in the Arizona Desert. And she had a SD TV which picks up HD channels. And loves it.

She knows how to set the clock on her VCR.

Just don't try to explain every button on the remote, and I think your parents will surprise you, and teach you a few things after a while.

By contrast - My wife, Masters in Psych, doesn't know how to set the clock on her VCR, gets frustrated by technology, and is using the HR-20 remote right now (better with it than her TIVO upstairs).

My son, English major, - doesn't know how to rip MP-3 (uses CD's). He is a master of the HR-20 remote.

Me? I am a techie, wirehead, hate all remote controls, prefer a command line which I can script. Love to hack my stuff.

I'll keep my HR-20 (maybe get another one for upstairs - that would make me a hero in this house).


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## alwayscool (Sep 24, 2006)

Earl since you ripped me off and re-did my poll at:
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=103188 , 
*I want to be put on the beta tester list for the new HR30-TIVO box!!!* Take note that on my poll the TIVO is winning and it was moved to an HR20 thread. Your poll has only 3 more votes for the HR20. If these polls were moved to the HR10-250 TIVO threads it would have been a landslide for the TIVO! :kickbutt:

All jokes aside I really like the speed of the new HR20 over the TIVO, but the reliability needs to be addressed. I have only had my HR20 for 3 weeks now, and downloaded my first CE the same night. I like it alot, but if we can get that same hardware speed with TIVO, then we have a clear winner. One of the things myself and alot of other people like is the ability to "hack" the TIVO and add more functionality. I too spent alot of money on 2 TIVO receivers, but I never regretted it one bit, and still use them to this day.


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## Agrajag (Jun 22, 2004)

Earl Bonovich said:


> The DirecTivos didn't have all the features of a Series 2...So what makes you think that a new box... developed FOR DirecTV... would all of a sudden, have every feature?


I would love to be able to see behind the curtain on this one.

If DirecTV is considering working with TiVo again but will prohibit the unit from even providing features of the HR20 then it's a waste of time, resources and effort for both sides.

If they're thinking of working with TiVo, then do it right or don't do it at all.

Do not misunderstand me. As I said before, I am no TiVo fanatic either. I loved my early TiVo's but lost faith in them many years ago when they lost focus and threw away the advantage they had. They started to believe their own press and neglected to realize that they hadn't actually perfected their own core application.

DirecTV could still learn a thing or two from TiVo and why it has the following it does. But I also see no reason to do ANYTHING else other than to license technology from them and move on.

If there is interest I wouldn't be at all surprised to find out that it's driven quite a bit by legal concerns regarding the arrangement they now have and wanting to keep things that way.

There are many of us that would love to have the OPTION of a TiVo-styled guide. I miss that more than anything else on my TiVo. To me the only thing beneficial on the TiVo is what they have patents on. Pay them for a license, incorporate them and move on. They need the cash. We could use the features. They want to call it TiVo software? Fine. I don't care what it's called but I don't need a box built by them.


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## David Carmichael (Mar 12, 2007)

Only these features would make me change..
Multi-Tuner-Buffer:
Since the HR20-100S has four tuners I would like to see multi-buffer on the DVR so that it does not have so much image break-up when multi-tasking such as recording two channels and watching a pre-recorded pgm.

Content Sharing: 
An older RePlayTV and hacked Tivo feature.. if a friend in another state records a pgm which was preempted locally they would be able to sent it to me via the net.

Remote Scheduling:
An older RePlayTV and new Tivo feature.. With the RePlayTV you would have to do it 24+ hours in advance, the newer Tivo's I understand they need at least 2 hours advance.


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## SteveHas (Feb 7, 2007)

with the steady stream of improvements that I have seen, and the coming features
I would not trade back to Tivo now.
If you asked me last Janurary I would have paid to get rid of the thing!
Not any more


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## saryon (Aug 12, 2007)

Ya know, the features of the DTivo which I really liked were the 30 second jump instead of 'slip', and the lack of autocorrect at 1x FF/RW and during the jump. TivoToGo or similar funcationality on the HR20 would just be icing on the cake.


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## spidey (Sep 1, 2006)

I really like the HR20 and more importantly so does the wife. The transition from Tivo to HR20 was easy only missing feature is the green thumbs up if ya see a commercial for a show ya want to watch but even when I had Tivo I always used commercial skip so rarely used the feature.


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## NickD (Apr 5, 2007)

I voted for Tivo. I do like the HR20 but overall I prefer the tivo interface. There are a couple of features from the HR20 that I would hate to lose like the PIG, I just love having that feature. We have had the HR20 since March, so we have had some time with it and even my wife when I asked her what she prefers, without hesitation said the tivo box. The ultimate would be to meld the two together, give us the best of both boxes and I am sure almost everyone would be happy. Honestly though my DVR does not need to say DTV or Tivo or any other name. It needs to record my shows reliably, it needs to be easy to use and it needs to give me the most features for my money.

Things I miss in the HR20:
DLB
30 second skip
Wishlist
Informative guide info
Better guide options
Suggestions

Things I like in the HR20:
PIG
ESATA uprgradeable storage
Mark & Delete 
The ability to play a series link in order 
90 minute buffer is nice, but 90 minute DLB would be awesome!!


I am not a not a computer techie, so any hacks should be key press hacks like the clock hack. These are pretty much what would make me happy. Of course what ever box would have to have full functionality with all of D's features, not just some, a box that has total integration.


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## vurbano (May 15, 2004)

Hell yes Id switch, but the box needs tohave more features and ports than the HR10, like ethernet and external drive ports as should the next generation of any box.


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## vurbano (May 15, 2004)

Earl Bonovich said:


> My 6yr knows how to use the HR20 (and the GUI in general)...
> My mother still calls me two years into TiVo usage, on how to do things....
> 
> So what does that tell "DirecTV"


It tells Directv that your 6 yr old has the benefit of you being there first hand teaching the 6yr old while your mother doesnt have that benefit and is probably forgetful.


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## rbean (Jan 12, 2007)

For us that have had the HR20 for months and months, seems like years and years sometimes, giving up the HR 20 would be like giving up a child after giving birth. I got my first HR 20 last fall and used it along with a HR10, no comparison, HR10 wins hands down. but after having raised my HR20 and having added another one to the family it would be hard to give up on it now BUT because of a few issues I think I would go back to a DTV Tivo. It would be a sad day but the HR20 will never have DLB, looks like D* doen't care about making CC easy to use and it is a big deal for me to be able to switch CC on and off easily. It would be a close call and I quess neither would be perfect for all but regrettably I would go to TIVO. plus D* won't get the damn CID fixed.


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## MartyS (Dec 29, 2006)

I would quickly trade in my HR20 for one with the TiVo software... I like the ease of use, I like the wishlist feature, I like the non-grid guide, I like the searching features better.

That said, The HR20 has improved significantly with national releases, but I still have major pangs for my TiVo, to the point where I'm considering a new HD TiVo box to record my OTA channels in HD, just for the features that it has.


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## ohio69 (Nov 3, 2006)

I would take a TIVO anyday over the existing Hxx family! Simply for the reliability if no other reason.


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## ohio69 (Nov 3, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> TiVo, what's that? Some 20th century curiosity?
> 
> Seriously, I am just as pleased with the HR20 as I ever was with the TiVo, and one thing puts me over the edge, in the HR20's favor:
> 
> ...


:nono2:


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## Juppers (Oct 26, 2006)

I thought I would miss my hr10-250. I haven't. 

I thought I would miss dual live buffers, I have. 

30 sec slip, I wish was a skip. 

I still see lots of improvement room in the HR20, I would love to see up or down activate the quick guide when watching live tv instead of only the blue button. Would love to see dual live buffers. 

But, I accidentally deleted a program that was in the middle of recording the other day. I quickly went to the guide and told it to record again. I ended up with 1 complete recording, not multiple parts with a missing chunk. That is good, smart design, and the HR20 has alot of it. They really focused on a seemless viewer experience, and they have done a pretty darn good job. 

There are things I don't like, but overall, I don't miss my DirecTivo, which has been stuck in the past and not progressing like the rest of their product line.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Agrajag said:


> I would love to be able to see behind the curtain on this one.


As I have stated a few times now... there is nothing behind the curtain on this one...



Agrajag said:


> If DirecTV is considering working with TiVo again but will prohibit the unit from even providing features of the HR20 then it's a waste of time, resources and effort for both sides.
> 
> If they're thinking of working with TiVo, then do it right or don't do it at all.


They are not working with TiVo on a new unit.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

vurbano said:


> It tells Directv that your 6 yr old has the benefit of you being there first hand teaching the 6yr old while your mother doesnt have that benefit and is probably forgetful.


My mother is only 55 and not very forgetfull, 
6yr old picked the remote up himself and used it... seriously...


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## richlife (Dec 4, 2006)

It blows me away that anyone would vote to switch to a Tivo, let alone 50% or more. Really makes me wonder who is doing the voting. The HR20 is head and shoulders above any Tivo I've ever seen. It's different -- and more intuitive and logical in implementation. A few pluses for the Tivo just doesn't bring it into the same league with the features and functionality and FUTURE of the HR20 series. D* made the right choice to go their own way and here's hoping they stay on this track.


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## luckydob (Oct 2, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> TiVo, what's that? Some 20th century curiosity?
> 
> Seriously, I am just as pleased with the HR20 as I ever was with the TiVo, and one thing puts me over the edge, in the HR20's favor:
> 
> ...


Yes...and the HR20 CAN NOT RECORD CORRECTLY. In 4 years of Tivo Ownership I have missed 1 show. In the last day I have missed 2 recordings on the HR20. Who cares about the other stuff if they can't get the DVR to actually record correctly?

Searches returning the "adult" shows...even when blocked. CIR is still broken. I really want the HR20 to work, but it has failed and failed miserably.

THE HR20 IS BROKEN. IT IS A DVR. IT DOESN'T DVR very well...and that is just plain pathetic.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

alwayscool said:


> Earl since you ripped me off and re-did my poll at:
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=103188 ,
> *I want to be put on the beta tester list for the new HR30-TIVO box!!!* Take note that on my poll the TIVO is winning and it was moved to an HR20 thread. Your poll has only 3 more votes for the HR20. If these polls were moved to the HR10-250 TIVO threads it would have been a landslide for the TIVO! :kickbutt:


Umm... I did link your thread/poll in the first post of this thread... as yes.. it was the basis of my poll (primarily)....

And you have a nice definition of landslide there..

I guess I should have left it in the TiVo forum, which barely gets 2% of our viewing traffic here..... (Though tthe move would actually help people find it, and respnd, instead of being burried in one of least active forums)


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

luckydob said:


> Yes...and the HR20 CAN NOT RECORD CORRECTLY. In 4 years of Tivo Ownership I have missed 1 show. In the last day I have missed 2 recordings on the HR20. Who cares about the other stuff if they can't get the DVR to actually record correctly?
> 
> Searches returning the "adult" shows...even when blocked. CIR is still broken. I really want the HR20 to work, but it has failed and failed miserably.
> 
> THE HR20 IS BROKEN. IT IS A DVR. IT DOESN'T DVR very well...and that is just plain pathetic.


1) Great that you only missed 1 show on your Tivo... maybe I should start dumping on TiVo a bit more... as missed a LOT more then just 1 show in my 6 years of active TiVo ownership.... My Brother In Law has missed more then a dozen shows in the last 3 months with his two SA's.... So I guess itn't can be a DVR either...

2) As for the "searches" you are correct... the blocked content does still appear in the search screens...

3) CIR has nothing to do with the HR20... even though it is effected by it... oh and yes... that should be "finished" soon as noted in other threads, it's rollout has already started

4) Your HR20 may be broken... but others are not.... What two shows did you miss this time?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

richlife said:


> It blows me away that anyone would vote to switch to a Tivo, let alone 50% or more. Really makes me wonder who is doing the voting. The HR20 is head and shoulders above any Tivo I've ever seen. It's different -- and more intuitive and logical in implementation. A few pluses for the Tivo just doesn't bring it into the same league with the features and functionality and FUTURE of the HR20 series. D* made the right choice to go their own way and here's hoping they stay on this track.


I did the make the poll public, so you can click on the totals and see who is voting.


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## Kojo62 (Aug 9, 2007)

I've only had my HR20-100 for 2 weeks now. We owned 2 DirecTiVos for several years before that, and only went to the HR20 after our oldest unit died.

I had a lot of anxiety about the switch at first, but I have come to actually like my HR20 very much. It works quite well so far, and I have yet to have it display any operational bugs or drop a series link (many thanks to the pioneer owners who suffered through all the older software iterations).

I like the HR20 interface design fine, and I surprisingly got used to it in a very short time. I also especially like the speed of menu response, and the menu PIP. There is nothing about the old TiVo interface itself that I miss by comparison.

However, I do VERY much miss Dual Live Buffers, and the Thumbs-up/down Suggestions feature set. I know not everyone used these features, but I did ... heavily.

So while I really do like my new HR20 a lot, the lack of those 2 features keep it from being the perfect box for me, and I would (somewhat reluctantly) trade it for a new MPEG-4 TiVo model if I could have those features back.


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## slumkid (Jul 9, 2007)

My appreciation of the HR20 has improved drastically since I first got it in June - some of it due to software upgrades, and some if it due to just getting used to the unit.

However , there are three things about the HR20 which I personally find EXTREMELY annoying.
1) No dual live buffers (yes I knew this going in, but still can't get used to it)
2) Push-and-hold function buttons. Awkward and "cheap"
3) OK, nitpicking here, but the time bar is WAY too big and way too hard to get rid of. It needs to be smaller, and have some kind of user preference for timing.

I think the on-screen graphics look cheap and remote for the HR20 is less user-friendly. The HR20 definitely has some software interface advantages, but I find it weaker overall.

I would trade my HR20 for a Tivo right now - just tell me how I can.


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## jgriffin7 (Feb 16, 2007)

richlife said:


> It blows me away that anyone would vote to switch to a Tivo, let alone 50% or more. Really makes me wonder who is doing the voting. The HR20 is head and shoulders above any Tivo I've ever seen. It's different -- and more intuitive and logical in implementation. A few pluses for the Tivo just doesn't bring it into the same league with the features and functionality and FUTURE of the HR20 series. D* made the right choice to go their own way and here's hoping they stay on this track.


And it blows me away that anyone _wouldn't_ want to switch! Those of use who started out on TiVos really miss them. We think TiVo does a lot of things better, and recognize the HR20 does a lot of things better. As I've posted many, many times before: Way, way back in the beginning of (DVR) time, these devices were introduced to record and time shift. That was how they were marketed: "pause live TV!!!!" So I really believe the playback controls (trick play) are critical when determining whether or not a unit is any good. Since we are forced go to an HR20 for MPEG4, *I judge the HR20 only on MPEG4 functionality*. And it fails miserably when it comes to playback (again, specifically trick play).
Finally, just to beat this horse, DLB is a missing critical piece as well. No excuse. If you don't see the need for DLB, then you've either never owned a unit with DLB, or never used a DVR they way they were meant to be used.


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## kmill14 (Jun 12, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Because there is ZERO guarantee that any Series 3 feature would be in a new box....
> 
> The DirecTivos didn't have all the features of a Series 2...
> So what makes you think that a new box... developed FOR DirecTV... would all of a sudden, have every feature?
> ...


I think you're missing my point. Why do I need a ComcasTivo or DirecTivo box that has "just" what Comcast or DTV wants me to have, knowing there is so much more out there?

If Tivo can create a stand alone box that works for any cable provider, they could create a similar box for SAT providers. But the SAT providers won't allow it.

Who called the shots as to why the old DirecTivos had "just" the features that they had, and why?


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## nsw (Apr 20, 2007)

I know this idea has been floated a million times before, but wouldn't it be great if DirecTV let its subscribers have the option of an HR20 or a Tivo, perhaps charging a premium for the Tivo-branded box? That would settle this once and for all.


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## achildfromthe80s (Mar 15, 2007)

Absolutely! From what I have seen from TiVo, it has some great features. I love my HR20 as i've never had any problems with it(I must be one of the lucky few) but I would! 

Just my two cents!


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## kmill14 (Jun 12, 2007)

richlife said:


> It blows me away that anyone would vote to switch to a Tivo, let alone 50% or more. Really makes me wonder who is doing the voting. The HR20 is head and shoulders above any Tivo I've ever seen. It's different -- and more intuitive and logical in implementation. A few pluses for the Tivo just doesn't bring it into the same league with the features and functionality and FUTURE of the HR20 series. D* made the right choice to go their own way and here's hoping they stay on this track.


richlife, have you ever gone to tivo.com and browsed through all the features of a stand alone Tivo unit? I imagine you haven't seen many Tivos if you think the HR20 is head and shoulders above it. You have no idea what you CAN do with a Tivo. I know what HR20 does, and as far as a recording device (its main function, it receives at most a C grade)

More intuitive and logical? How many threads have there been this past month on the HR20 failing to record properly? Does it keep track of individual shows you recorded recently and make sure not to record them again? 
Does the HR20 have bollean search capabilities? 
Does the HR-20 have a ratings system and suggestions or auto-record based on how you rate shows?

Swivel Search? Nope?

For families that utilize home movies and want to share them, you can easily share them across tivo boxes anywhere. Will the HR-20 ever do that?

Think the HR-20 will allow you to start moving shows/movies to other devices like your iPod?

If I had kids, I'd certainly want something like KidZone.

Access to internet-based content?

Tivo has had remote scheduling for years, but DirecTV has not opened it up for Tivo users ever.

DLB

HME (you think Cutting Edge is cool? This blows it out of the water)


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## nth78 (Jan 16, 2007)

I would trade my HR20 + $200 for a HD Tivo that could receive all the HD channels D* is offering/is going to offer. I've got the SD Directv Tivo in my room and it performs 100x better than the HR20. The HR20 is better than it was but still light years away from a Tivo


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## lguvenoz (Aug 23, 2006)

This discussion is bringing out the usual crowds... I LOVE Tivo on one side, and I LOVE HR20 on the other.

They're both interesting viewpoints. At the end of the day I personally would prefer D* to stay independent on this. The new features are purely up to D* to implement. There is no 3rd party to consult or pay fees to. The biggest bottleneck of new features in the old units was more than likely this political debate that has to occur in a relationship like D* had with Tivo.

* Tivo wants to add a new feature, but D* is nervous about the impact to the security or stability of the stability.
* Tivo adds a new feature and the boxes spontaneously reboot or miss recordings (remember the DirecTivo fiasco with folders)
* D* wants to add a new feature and Tivo says no way
* D* wants to add a new feature and Tivo says it will cost you big $$$$

This is probably one of the bigger motivations for D* pulling this unit in-house. 

I would expect to see the DVR landscape open up a bit when D* finally get arounds to releasing an HTPC satellite tuner that is HD capable. I can virtually guarantee that Sony and HP at a minimum will be rolling boxes out shortly after the release of this capability, and then us D* folks will have another choice.

If D* makes their eventual HTPC tuner user-installable then there will be a major wave of options as us "techno-weenies" (as my wife calls me) build our ideal DVR and forget about mass produce boxes.


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## kmill14 (Jun 12, 2007)

lguvenoz,

That is the best argument I have seen for why DTV does what they do (or vice versa for Tivo). 

My ultimate goal as a consumer is to have my choice of products. I see some of the challenges the SA tivo boxes have with cablecards and SDV....but at least cable users HAVE an option for an independent box.

DTV, Dish? Nope. You take what we give you, and you'll like it.


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## mateom199 (Sep 14, 2006)

richlife said:


> It blows me away that anyone would vote to switch to a Tivo, let alone 50% or more. Really makes me wonder who is doing the voting. The HR20 is head and shoulders above any Tivo I've ever seen. It's different -- and more intuitive and logical in implementation. A few pluses for the Tivo just doesn't bring it into the same league with the features and functionality and FUTURE of the HR20 series. D* made the right choice to go their own way and here's hoping they stay on this track.


It blows me away that someone would want to stay with the HR20.....

Its all about individual experiences. Personally, I've had a terrible experience with the HR20, with it always locking up/rebooting at the most inconvenient times. But I know plenty of people have perfectly functional HR20's. Perhaps if mine worked correctly and reliably, I would have voted No - there are definitely things I like about the HR20 that the current Tivos lack.


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## mateom199 (Sep 14, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> For the most part (I can't recall one recently, or in a long while)... if your HR20 fails... they usually do replace it... at most for the cost of shipping..


Just got off a 2 hour call to D*. Got a replacement HR20 for 19.95 (S&H) only, but it took a lot. They tried to say that it was outside of the 90 warranty, and I would need to pay close to $100 for a replacement.

I kindly told them that I called 3 times within the 90 days for a replacement, and all three times I was denied a replacement, being told that the problems I was experiencing was a software issue that was actively being worked on. It took lots of arguing for them to agree to the S+H only charge.....kind of scummy, but maybe it was just the people I was dealing with.

Anywho, maybe my new HR20 will change my opinion of it.


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## bodlfed66 (Mar 16, 2007)

I was getting ready to post that I would trade in a instant because my HR20 is quirky sometimes and has no DLB. DLB is a huge deal but the fact of the matter is my HR20 is probably quirky because i constantly download CE's. With that being said it is less quirky now on a CE than 9 mos. ago on a national release. If they gave me a tivo with EVERYTHING my hr20 does and DLB, probably. It would make my wife happier. But I will not pay extra for it. I like my HR20, and hopefully with the constant software testing we will get a far superior product. The first Tivo was a junker. Or did you guys forget.


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## alwayscool (Sep 24, 2006)

mateom199 said:


> Just got off a 2 hour call to D*. Got a replacement HR20 for 19.95 (S&H) only, but it took a lot. They tried to say that it was outside of the 90 warranty, and I would need to pay close to $100 for a replacement.
> 
> I kindly told them that I called 3 times within the 90 days for a replacement, and all three times I was denied a replacement, being told that the problems I was experiencing was a software issue that was actively being worked on. It took lots of arguing for them to agree to the S+H only charge.....kind of scummy, but maybe it was just the people I was dealing with.
> 
> Anywho, maybe my new HR20 will change my opinion of it.


Being that it is "leased" I would think that D* would have to replace it for free. After all that's what a lease is, and what you pay a "lease fee" for.


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## alwayscool (Sep 24, 2006)

Very interesting:

My Poll:
TIVO 178 49.44% 
HR20 160 44.44%

Earl's Poll:
TIVO 179 51.59% 
HR2o 168 48.41%

*Looks like we need to get SOMEONE to build a MPEG4 TIVO!*

I'm placing my advance order for a HR30-TIVO now....

(Or am I just hallucinating again?) :icon_kiff :icon_bb:


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## Dom_P (Oct 6, 2007)

Well it seems to be split right down the center at this time, and most who voted for the TiVo (including me) generally fall into that category for 2 reasons.

Reliability and a few missing features that were part of the DirecTivos.

I think generally what this poll tells DirecTv is if they add those few Tivo features (assuming they can - ie. no patents exist) and they bring reliability up a bit, then most of their HR20 customers will be happy (including me )


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## bdhall1313 (Sep 16, 2007)

I voted for the Tivo because of the following features I miss the most:

1. 30 second skip. Slipping takes too long.
2. Superior guide format
3. Suggestions, thumbs up, thumbs down

By superior guide format, I'm talking about the one that was like hitting the info button on the channel name on the HR20. I would prefer that to be the default format -- not have to hit the info button on each channel.

Going up and down the channels, the Tivo format guide gave a quicker view of what was going to be on each one in the next 3 or 4 hours.

I would be willing to pay $250 more for an HR20 that had a true 30 second skip. The slip drives me crazy.

Off topic, but I wish DirecTV had a way to offer no-ad versions of existing channels. I'd be glad to pay more for the option to have ad-free versions of network shows and especially the SciFi channel.


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## HDTVsportsfan (Nov 29, 2005)

I wouldn't my HR20 for the TIVO.
Anyone can look over the past year on posts about the HR20. I have not had nearly asmany problems as other folks for whatever reason. Sure it hit a couple of speed bumps, but both of the boxes I obtained in Sept. 06 erally never gave me any heartburn.


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## philslc (Dec 2, 2006)

bdhall1313 said:


> I voted for the Tivo because of the following features I miss the most:
> 
> 1. 30 second skip. Slipping takes too long.
> 2. Superior guide format
> 3. Suggestions, thumbs up, thumbs down


I agree and also the Tivo program information is more complete than the HR20 program information.


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## z28lt1 (Aug 28, 2007)

The last couple of posts sum it up for me. Tivo was my vote. I like the HR20, and appreciate some of its features. I could care less about "ease of use" things, because I can figure out either one -- there is a comfort level witht he Tivo, but that wouldn't make me keep it.

1 - DLB
2 - Suggestions
3 - Better program info (particularly the ability to look at a show's info and determine if it is a repeat or not)
4 - Reliability. I rebooted the Tivo a few times in several years. In a month, I've had to reboot one of my HR20's at least 15 times so far.

That said, I'm okay with the HR20s. My Tivo wasn't hacked so on the HR20 I appreciate

1) Caller ID
2) Networking
3) Speed
4) Space availabile meter
5) One touch record


My wife is ready to through the HR20 out the window. She really misses the Tivo.


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## jbellanca (Sep 1, 2006)

jgriffin7 said:


> And it blows me away that anyone _wouldn't_ want to switch! Those of use who started out on TiVos really miss them.


You're not speaking for everyone - I started with a DirecTivo way back when, and have come to really like the HR20... sure Tivo's got some nice features, and so does the HR20, but I see the HR20 as envolving, whereas Tivo's been more stagnant, and late to the HD game. I'd love to see a "Tivo to Go"-type feature on the HR20 to transfer shows to my iPhone to take with me, and MRV would be nice, but I think the HR20 will get there eventually. Lately when I've used my old Tivo that I have in my workout room, I find the interface to just be annoying now, too many clicks, too childish, and no PIG. I guess either way has it's plusses and minuses, but I think overall I prefer the HR20.


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## Keeska (Feb 10, 2007)

> And it blows me away that anyone wouldn't want to switch!


It blows me away that anyone would want a Tivo interface.  I had to suffer through one for far too long. Hopefully I have seen the last of it.


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## AlbertZeroK (Jan 28, 2006)

Personally, I'd drop the HR20 in a heart beat for a TIVO with MRV. Without MRV, I don't know that I'd switch. eSATA is so handy and so much better than instantCake. I wouldn't spend money for TIVO for an upgrade though unless it was $200 or less per box with the ability to add storage and have MRV. Otherwise, the HR20 will work just fine.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

daniellee said:


> rich584, you are correct on both counts. More on CE's here.


I use rich584 on all sites that require a "user name". Please (and this includes everyone on the forum) feel free to call me Rich. Thanx for the link, I would have never figured out the CE means "Cutting Edge" in what is getting to be quite a little bureaucracy. I can't help but wonder how many CE people there are.


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## bret4 (Nov 22, 2006)

The HR20 is really nice when it works. That doesn't happen regularly . I'd like to watch tv without being a D* repair man.

If the tivo would work as good as my old tivo did, I'd trade in a second for one. Never had one problem with my old tivo. Never had to reset it. Don't even know if it had a reset button or not. I don't think anyone with a HR20 can say they never reset it. On my 4th HR20 and it just works ok. It's still not ready for the person that can't trouble shoot their sat system.

My wife and I like the HR20 interface better than the tivo. If only it was as stable.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

armophob said:


> When explaining the new box to current Tivo owners, I truly use this type reference. I explain that they are using the AOL of satellite dvrs.


I don't get it. Personally I have never had AOL so I don't know whether it is good or bad.


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## nspdave (Jan 14, 2007)

I voted Tivo but if the HR20 had the following features it would have got my vote:

- DLB
- Equivalent of TivoToGo
- Add a alternative guide view like on Tivo where I can view an entire days worth of shows for a given channel

While many have had stability issues with their HR20s, mine has been just as stable as the old Tivo.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

OK, I just voted for the HR20 mainly because of the eSATA function. All things being equal, that is the biggest difference and the most important to me. I use SD TiVos and HR20s all day long. Don't have to work. Watch a lot of TV and I like them both. 

But, you gotta admit, the HR20 is more interesting. I remember when D* switched from Ultimate TV to TiVo and I really liked the UTV boxes, when they worked correctly. Learned to love the TiVo and I find myself with a desire for more HR20s.

I read this whole thread and I did not see any mention of the 12 hour skip of the HR20 guide. TiVo doesn't have that and I use it all the time.


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## tealcomp (Sep 7, 2007)

Well I voted for the HR-20..frankly SAGE blows away TIVO and the HR-20 and if I could record MPEG-4 HD on that machine (legally) I would be doing so. I have only had the HR-20 for a week now, but it seems pretty good. I've never had a Tivo 3 series, but never really had a desire for one. Their monthly fee is rediculous for what you get in return IMO and I would have expected them to go the way of the dodo bird by now I am not trying to start a flame way, but there are better things out there than TIVO; I am so far very content with this newest DVR edition to my setup.
I am very excited that DTV is going out of their way to make the HR20 a viable alternative by soliciting input from members of our forum.

-Dan


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## tealcomp (Sep 7, 2007)

First thing I did, was transfer the RC34 functions to my trusty MX-700; now no need to use the HR-20 remote at all :0..

-Dan


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## tealcomp (Sep 7, 2007)

Not to rain on anyone's parade but my old SD-TIVO CONSTANTLY recorded crap I had to delete; its guage on whether I liked something or not was sadly lacking. When I eventually moved to SAGE, "Intelligent Suggestions" was the first thing I turned off.
Needless to say, I don't really miss the thumbs up/down rating system on the HR-20.


-Dan


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## armophob (Nov 13, 2006)

rich584 said:


> I don't get it. Personally I have never had AOL so I don't know whether it is good or bad.


Then it is hard to explain. Sort of like internet access with training wheels I suppose.


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## DogLover (Mar 19, 2007)

Well, this poll caught me on a day that I was home in the afternoon and wanted to channel surf. I really missed DLB today. Makes this a tough decision. 

Tivo has some features that are better than HR20. HR20 has some features that I like better than Tivo. I can see the HR20 making progress to add features and ease of use improvements. I can see them listening to their customers on these items. (Of course, just because I don't see Tivo trying to make improvements, doesn't mean it's not happening. Maybe they will soon get PIG.)

If it weren't for DLB, I would choose the HR20 without hesitation. I don't miss it as much as I thought I would, but I do miss it. If I knew it was D* intention to add DLB in the future, I would choose the HR20. I'd probably be content with the ability for the live buffer to stay paused while watching a recording and the ability to use the prev button to toggle between two recordings. Those would allow better workarounds for DLB. 

I guess I'm voting for the HR20, since any other day I would be less hesitant. You just caught me on an "I miss DLB" kind of day.


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## tealcomp (Sep 7, 2007)

LOL, and apparently you have never used anything other than TIVO, and I can ASSURE you there are EXCELLENT alternatives out there that can do pretty much anything TIVO can do, and I have used TIVO since its inception before hand, so I am quite aware of what they can do. OH and by the way, the guide data is FREE in most cases..and very accurate.

-Dan


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## snork (Sep 21, 2007)

I love my HR10-250. But I've also grown to love my HR20.
I'm going to have faith that the HR20 will continue to make strides in usability and features - there's nothing that's lead me to believe that it can't or won't. I've been pleasantly surprised with how user-driven the development of the HR20 has been and I suspect that a TiVo's always going to be a TiVo, but the HR20 just might be OURS!

I can't believe I'm actually going to say this, but NO, I won't trade in my HR20 (but it would be cool if my HR10-250 magically became MPEG4


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## thart (Oct 11, 2006)

I never had much exposure to the Tivo units. But, based on what I know of them and what they can do compared to the HR20. No!


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## nc88keyz (Aug 12, 2007)

its a trick question. 

You can have your cake and eat it too. 


We will before long ....inevitable actually get a TIVO OS, shell in a world where directv controlls every layer. 


All of your four collored buttons will work, as well as you may get new remotes that are peanuts as well 

OR 

instead of thumbs up and thumbs down you will as a cost saving measure be able to use the existing remote and use the red and green buttons. Depends on the peanut. They may use that too, but it would be pre-negotiated by directv and tivo to include that in their transition costs. More than likely we would see it in an annual increase even though no cost would be stated to the customer. This is how directv pays for things in our routine increases in packages etc. 

There is no profit in tivo hardware anymore. 

Also for the handy dandy option of having tivo os ...you will have your dvr fee increase to 9.99 but Directv will eat the multi-licensing fee from tivo and it will apply to all tivo os'd dvrs in your household. The trade off is what directv can bring per license to tivo on a subscription base. Anything for directv to add another $10 bucks to their ARPU.

In addition you WILL get MRV but only after directv has closed any security holes and approved the feature. 

tivo already already has the port compiled and is testing what kind of tricks the HR-20 can really turn on their shell. 

Its a big project, but we know tivo can do it. The engineers and programmers are pretty smart. 

Lets not forget comcast is already doing something quite similar. 

HR20 "powered by tivo" OS coming soon. 

CE's will cease, they will have a closed firmware on the box due to the LG archeitecture, but there may be tivo os downloads in a ce form. Hard to tell. They will need to use a rock solid base firmware to permit the tivo OS install. 

It will be a hybrid Series 3/Directv Release obviously.

I can't say how many times I have heard the tivo OS rumor...its just too expensive for directv to do yet another DVR and completely change what they have worked for and that is the closed DVR platform ....universal remote, color coding, instruction books. All things that KISS for the users and the CSRS. 

Kiss = Keep It Simple Stupid for those that were wondering.

It just makes sense


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## jaywdetroit (Sep 21, 2006)

Earl - 

This is a tough question. The older members here know I am a big tivo fan. They also know that I'm an HR20 convert. It's funny- I have relegated my TIVO to the TV that gets only occasional use in the house. And I was using it for the first time in a month today. The suggestions had recorded some really good shows. And I found myself really missing them. 

I really miss DLB - and I really miss those suggestions. And I really miss the TIVO version of Trick Play. 

Hmmm. I think I need to qualify my vote. Would I trade my HR20 in for the DirecTivo as it is now, with added MPEG 4 capability? I don't know - maybe not. 

But if it was an updated DirecTivo, with HDMI, improved speed, larger capacity, etc, I think I would. Of course I hope it would support all the new features like VOD, and the active channel, etc. 

Since Music and Photos don't work well for me, that feature is useless. So I won't miss that. I think it really comes down to features. I think the Tivo does better on all the most basic TV viewing functions. But the HR20 is much faster, and more feature rich. Add some of those features to the Tivo platform, and I think you have a great box. 

So making the assumption that any MPEG4 tivo DirecTV gets behind, has the added features, I would make the switch.


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## nc88keyz (Aug 12, 2007)

well any tivo today is going to overcome the speed and slowness issues. 

cpus and memory increased in nand, chips will do that for a product. 

Its amazing that the hr10-250 could achieve what it did with those dated hardware specs.


For what its worth, 


we have 2 hr10s and 3 hr20s

They all do their own thing well. 

I prefer all my OTA on the HR10s. 

All my mpg4 on the new boxes that change channels faster, search the guide. 

I dont run into SeasonPass issues on the HR10s either for OTA. 

Its a working combination. 

On top I pay $20 bucks in dvr fees/month...less than 2 tivo subs on series 3 i think unless you pay 3 years upfront last i checked.


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## NeedMoreCowbell (Apr 22, 2007)

I have both a directivo and HR20 at this moment. The directivo will occasionally freeze up (i've hacked the heck out of it), maybe once a month or so. We don't use the HR20 much even though it's connected to the hdtv. The directivo is much more intuitive. It has huge WAF and I've been doing everything I can to keep the old lass alive; we've had it working nonstop for many years.

Would I swap the HR20 for a HD Tivo? God yes, in a second. You're not supposed to think about the DVR, it should be a natural extension of the tv watching experience, IMHO. Tivo does a much better job; I do like the HR20, and am glad I don't have all the problems I've seen discussed here, but to be honest there are times I contemplate dumping DirecTV for Time Warner just so I can get a series 3 Tivo.

I'm more seriously thinking of doing this ever since I found out Sabres home games would be covered in HD by TW exclusively. Hockey just isn't meant to be watched in SD, and I might go nuts if I hear my neighbor talking about how amazing the game looked the past couple nights!

Edit: I wish there were multiple configurations of HDTivos. I have no problem hacking them, but if I were offered a basic HD-Tivo, or a high-end HD-Tivo with perhaps more memory and a faster processor, I'd gladly drop a few extra bucks for additional speed. Maybe I'm a niche user - but if an HD-Tivo were offered with a Core2Duo quadcore processor, 4gb of RAM and the latest hardware mpeg4 decoders, I wouldn't mind digging 4-digits deep for something like that. Give me flawless, blazing fast performance, I will pay!!


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## nhlfan79 (Aug 31, 2006)

Why did I have to read through five full pages before Earl finally clarified that there's nothing whatsoever behind this poll? If D* is not even putting out feelers about an MPEG4 TiVo, then what does it matter? Truth? If it had been anyone other than Earl to start this poll I never would've opened this thread.

I voted Tivo, FWIW, but only due to the recurring Error 13 problem with most of my kid's shows on Noggin and the lack of DLB. Recording simplicity, speed, and PIG are the things I like most about my HR20s. My "mission critical" recordings are still set on my backup HR10-250.


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## kmill14 (Jun 12, 2007)

jaywdetroit said:


> But the HR20 is much faster, and more feature rich.


What are all these features? It does some things faster, but what features does the HR-20 have that a Tivo box can't? I'm not talking about the old DTivos...I'm talking about a current Tivo box (that of course doesn't currently work with DTV)


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## philslc (Dec 2, 2006)

jaywdetroit said:


> I think the Tivo does better on all the most basic TV viewing functions. But the HR20 is much faster, and more feature rich. Add some of those features to the Tivo platform, and I think you have a great box.


The Tivo Series 3 is faster, has VOD, Hdmi, eSata and all the great Tivo features. If it were DirecTV compatible, the HR20 would not look so great. OTA HD on the series 3 is better than OTA on the HR20.


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## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

kmill14 said:


> What are all these features? It does some things faster, but what features does the HR-20 have that a Tivo box can't? I'm not talking about the old DTivos...I'm talking about a current Tivo box (that of course doesn't currently work with DTV)


Quickdelete? Two quick button pushes for a series link (season pass)? How about allowing you to continue to watch/listen to your show as you clean out prioritizer, the to-do list, search through the playlist, etc?


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## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

nhlfan79 said:


> Why did I have to read through five full pages before Earl finally clarified that there's nothing whatsoever behind this poll? If D* is not even putting out feelers about an MPEG4 TiVo, then what does it matter? Truth? If it had been anyone other than Earl to start this poll I never would've opened this thread.


Earl doesn't work for D*, and when he IS doing something for them, asking us something on their behalf, he has always said so. He has a right to speak personally and ask questions out of curiosity just as any of us do.


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## vankai (Jan 22, 2007)

I would add the Tivo to my HR20's and compare them side by side, then provide feedback to D* if they would like.

There has already been good feedback on which systems handles certain functions better than the other, so the convergence of the two can bring the best of each together. 

aka the Divo


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## tealcomp (Sep 7, 2007)

vankai said:


> I would add the Tivo to my HR20's and compare them side by side, then provide feedback to D* if they would like.
> 
> There has already been good feedback on which systems handles certain functions better than the other, so the convergence of the two can bring the best of each together.
> 
> aka the Divo


Interesting numbers, just 207 to 209, man that is CLOSE..we may have to resort to recounting voting ballots, oh wait nevermind, that was South Fla that had that issue 

-Dan


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## kmill14 (Jun 12, 2007)

Capmeister said:


> Quickdelete? Two quick button pushes for a series link (season pass)? How about allowing you to continue to watch/listen to your show as you clean out prioritizer, the to-do list, search through the playlist, etc?


Like I said, I know it does some things faster, and the PIG is nice, but I could live without it easy enough. As a matter of fact, I would like to remove the PIG when my goal is to find something else to watch. Give me the ability to pause live TV and switch to a recording or the other tuner and take away the PIG.

So is that it for features? Quickdelete and quick buttons for series links? By the way, I don't trust the entire Series Link feature of the HR-20 (for obvious reasons) so I don't ever use the quick button sequence.


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## MattG (Dec 31, 2003)

I think it would be wise for D* to work with Tivo to come out with a new mpeg4 unit. I bought my hr10-250 the first month they became available after pulling my hair out in frustration with a E* 921 HD DVR and for the most part it has been a very stable and reliable HD DVR. People get set in their ways and longtime Tivo users are no different. You figure it out and get used to it like any other appliance in the house and eventually using Tivo becomes second nature. The HR10-250 isn't perfect but it works, it's intuitive, and there's a reason why there are a number of Tivo diehards out there. I've had my HR20 since last June and I've only recently started using it due to all of the new mpeg4 channels. Not only would I gladly exchange my HR20 for a new Tivo I would be willing to PAY to exchange my hr20 for a new Tivo.


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## cbyrd (Sep 24, 2007)

Seeing how my HR20 just failed to record something that I told it to...and was in the "list" yet it didn't record....and it was something my wife wanted to see...I'd say yes at this point.

Right now the HR20 isn't very "Wife Friendly".


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## thebarge (Aug 28, 2006)

cbyrd said:


> Seeing how my HR20 just failed to record something that I told it to...and was in the "list" yet it didn't record....and it was something my wife wanted to see...I'd say yes at this point.
> 
> Right now the HR20 isn't very "Wife Friendly".


This thread is scaring me now  I've got a scheduled upgrade on Tuesday to replace my HR10 with an HR20. I've got 4 Tivos total, including the HR10, but with all the upcoming HD channels (and problems with locals in HD via OTA in my area) I decided to bite the bullet and upgrade. I've had Tivo for about 8 years - still have an old Philips Series 1 stock unit, non-hacked running in my bedroom, and it still works perfectly fine (minus a lot of the S2 features like folders, etc).

But failing to record "Season Passes" is my worst nightmare. I mean come on, how hard is it for D* to program the unit to record a program every week?


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## Groundhog45 (Nov 10, 2005)

thebarge said:


> This thread is scaring me now  I've got a scheduled upgrade on Tuesday to replace my HR10 with an HR20. I've got 4 Tivos total, including the HR10, but with all the upcoming HD channels (and problems with locals in HD via OTA in my area) I decided to bite the bullet and upgrade. I've had Tivo for about 8 years - still have an old Philips Series 1 stock unit, non-hacked running in my bedroom, and it still works perfectly fine (minus a lot of the S2 features like folders, etc).
> 
> But failing to record "Season Passes" is my worst nightmare. I mean come on, how hard is it for D* to program the unit to record a program every week?


I wouldn't be too concerned about missing series records. They are pretty rare for most people. Not going to say they never happen but I have multiple HR20s and can't remember the last time they failed to record something. I also have/had Tivos and they are ok also. But my Hr10 died after about 8 months and resulted in my getting my second HR20, which has been very good. I swapped the power supply and hard drive in the HR10 and no luck. It apparently was a failure of something on the motherboard, like the boot rom.  You can get good and bad units from anyone, I guess.


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## alwayscool (Sep 24, 2006)

thebarge said:


> This thread is scaring me now  I've got a scheduled upgrade on Tuesday to replace my HR10 with an HR20. I've got 4 Tivos total, including the HR10, but with all the upcoming HD channels (and problems with locals in HD via OTA in my area) I decided to bite the bullet and upgrade. I've had Tivo for about 8 years - still have an old Philips Series 1 stock unit, non-hacked running in my bedroom, and it still works perfectly fine (minus a lot of the S2 features like folders, etc).
> 
> But failing to record "Season Passes" is my worst nightmare. I mean come on, how hard is it for D* to program the unit to record a program every week?


Keep your HR10-250 for important programs you need to record. The new HR20-700 is not 100% reliable yet. I have both units running on my tv.


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## alwayscool (Sep 24, 2006)

I used to have an UltimateTv years ago and I really miss the PIP. The best box for me would be a mpeg4 box with TIVO and PIP.


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## vikingguy (Aug 1, 2005)

Yes just for DLB it would be worth it alone.


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

cbyrd said:


> Seeing how my HR20 just failed to record something that I told it to...and was in the "list" yet it didn't record....and it was something my wife wanted to see...I'd say yes at this point.
> 
> Right now the HR20 isn't very "Wife Friendly".


Neither is the HR10, it had the same issues along with others. Both boxes are not perfect, both boxes have the same type of issues.


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## UTVLamented (Oct 18, 2006)

No chance. I have two SD Tivos and I prefer the HR20's UI and functionality. I like to fiddle with searches and other DVR functions while still watching/listening to a program.


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## Agrajag (Jun 22, 2004)

Wing, that's just not very accurate a comment.

They have the same types of issues???

The HR20 is slow to record?

The HR20 doesn't have native support?

The HR10 doesn't have DLB?

You get my point, I hope. Each has issues. I would argue that the HR20 is just now entering the area of becoming reliable whereas the HR10 had been reliable for a long time. When it missed something it was rare. The HR20 is just now getting there.


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## JACKIEGAGA (Dec 11, 2006)

The only thing HR20 is missing is DLB and if the HR20 go DLB I would want to have 90 min buffers


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## Teronzhul (Sep 21, 2006)

I voted for the Tivo because I still want DLB as well. Honestly though, I'm far more interested in having an mpeg4 capable receiver period. As others have stated, content is king.


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## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

kmill14 said:


> So is that it for features? Quickdelete and quick buttons for series links? By the way, I don't trust the entire Series Link feature of the HR-20 (for obvious reasons) so I don't ever use the quick button sequence.


No, those are just the features I like more than on the Tivo. And I have yet to ever miss a recording for some reason. On either of my HR20s. (At least for anything related to the HR20--I have because the OTA channel was down).

It's surely subjective on an ease-of-use thing, but I find the HR20 far easier to use to do the things I do most often. It took me all of 20 seconds to explain to my 77 year old father how to record something and watch it the next day. I call that a winner.


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## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

thebarge said:


> But failing to record "Season Passes" is my worst nightmare. I mean come on, how hard is it for D* to program the unit to record a program every week?


I don't know why others have troubles, and won't guess, but I've yet to have this happen to me.


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## pauper (Aug 22, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> In the spirit of this poll:
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=103188
> 
> For those that already have an HR20....
> ...


I'll do it!! I'll trade for sure..>I hate my hr20.


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## nth78 (Jan 16, 2007)

I would trade my HR20 and $200 cash for a Tivo that would allow me to receive all the new HD channels. The HR20, while better than it was, is still a long way from being where it needs to be. I still have a SD D* Tivo in the bedroom and I'll usually record shows on that just because the unit is so much more dependable and the interface is light years beyond the HR20.

Is this just a hypothetical poll or is there a chance of a return of Tivo to D*?


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## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

I sold my owned HR10 and DVR80 last week (to a DBStalk member--for a discount!). My brother has a DVR80 in his bedroom, but he's moving out next summer (will be done with school) and so that will be retired. I guess I'm weird--I just don't miss the tivo anymore.


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## kmill14 (Jun 12, 2007)

nth78 said:


> Is this just a hypothetical poll or is there a chance of a return of Tivo to D*?


Most likely its completely hypothetical, because DTV has a history of limiting what it gives its customers, because it feels like it can.

Cable is guilty of this as well (and its taking the FCC to get involved for them to allow independent boxes into the marketplace)....but for some reason Dish and DTV are except.

Like I said earlier, you take what DTV gives you, and you like it (or don't, but it doesn't matter unless you totally drop the service)


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

nth78 said:


> Is this just a hypothetical poll or is there a chance of a return of Tivo to D*?


Slim to None, and slim isn't looking so good..


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

Agrajag said:


> Wing, that's just not very accurate a comment.
> 
> They have the same types of issues???
> 
> ...


No, my point was that they both lock up, they both miss recordings, etc, not features. In my expierence the HR10 has just as many reliablity issues, if not more now

Had 2 HR10's, now have 1 HR 20 in the prime viewing area, the second HR10 have been relegated to the kids play room,. the first HR10 was destroyed intentionally to take frustration out on. when the two channels that the kids watch all the time become MPEG4, the last HR10 will be retired, or maybe moved to the garage for when I work on the motorcycles.


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## kylebj (Dec 2, 2006)

I voted no. Only had a Tivo for about 9 months before I switched to the HR-20. There are things I like about the HR-20 that the Tivo did not have. For instance, I like that I can hit record twice and it does a series link. I like that I can go into the menus and continue to watch my show in the top right hand corner. The stability has not been an issue for me at all. And to push it over the edge, the wife has enjoyed the HR-20 we just added to the bedroom. She was using the Tivo. Hey, as long as she gets her View, she's happy.


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## tyke (Aug 20, 2007)

I voted for the Tivo.

I have used it for well, a long time and it is er... modified a bit. So of course I would like it because I made it do things that I really like.

The thing I like about the HR20, is that D* is working on making it better and hopefully it will be so someday. I also like the fact that D* allows us to participate in making it better. My guess is that in a year I will be used to the new interface and would probably change my vote.

One thing that a really miss is the ability to send messages to my Tivo. I can use my computer to send on screen messages to TV watchers. Doors left open, reminders, CID, etc. This is one thing that I have never seen mentioned as a possibility with the HR20. I know this is probably above the majority of D* users, so my guess is that it will never happen. My guess is the rest of the Tivo features will come in time.


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## Sirshagg (Dec 30, 2006)

Shoot! I voted NO but meant YES. I would absolutely trade every single one of my HR20's for an MPEG4 Tivo. From my perspective the shortcomings of the Tivo are few and at worst they are annoying. The HR20's do have some nice features that the Tivo's don't have but it's shortcomings are infuriating and go to the core of what a DVR is supposed to do - record the shows I tell it to. In addition I very strongly prefer the Tivo UI, especially the list view. I would however miss the P.I.G.


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## Xing (Oct 1, 2007)

I absolutely voted No! I really do not like theTivo UI. As far as the reliability of the Tivo versus the HR20, When Tivo was first released it was not reliable at all and when the HR10-250 was released it had multiple problems. The way I see it the HR20 is easier to use and mine have never missed a recording, 2 HR20-100's, it will only get better from here. The ONLY thing I like about Tivo that the HR20 doesn't have is the DLB. So no it was for me.


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## msmith (Apr 23, 2002)

I barely chose to remain with DirecTV at this time. The other option was Verizon FIOS with Tivo Series 3.

What I lost and want back:
Suggestions
Dual Live Buffers
Consistent Series Link/Season Pass
Wishlists

What I gained and want to keep:
MPEG4 HD channels
a little speed

What I'm assuming would be in either:
Video on Demand
Undelete
Online booking
Medialink


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## brianr4666 (Aug 19, 2006)

I would keep the HR20. 
1. TiVo will be out of business soon and then you will have a doorstop.
2. Gone are the days of waiting 3-4 years for updates. I get them weekly with the HR20.

While there are things I would like to add to the HR20. I like the interface and how it functions today. There are too many functions in the TIVo interface that I never use. It is easier to get to things I want in the HR20 without entering multiple menus. Recording from the guide and season passes are so much easier with the HR20.


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## Xing (Oct 1, 2007)

mateom199 said:


> Just got off a 2 hour call to D*. Got a replacement HR20 for 19.95 (S&H) only, but it took a lot. They tried to say that it was outside of the 90 warranty, and I would need to pay close to $100 for a replacement.
> 
> I kindly told them that I called 3 times within the 90 days for a replacement, and all three times I was denied a replacement, being told that the problems I was experiencing was a software issue that was actively being worked on. It took lots of arguing for them to agree to the S+H only charge.....kind of scummy, but maybe it was just the people I was dealing with.
> 
> Anywho, maybe my new HR20 will change my opinion of it.


The HR20 has a 1 year warranty and should at most be replaced for 19.95 plus tax after that warranty expires. You should never have to pay more than this due to the product being leased, also there will be no new commitment!


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## Hollingshead (Oct 23, 2006)

I gotta say- The poll results reflect my thinking almost perfectly. I opted to trade for only one reason- my family really likes DLB. My wife still uses our old DirectTivo almost exclusively just because she is so used to flipping between channels to avoid commercials.

Otherwise, HR-20 all the way. Interface is fine, reliability is OK. Speed is great.

Add DLB to the HR-20 and you've got the best of both worlds.

Best,
Kevin


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## jutley (Oct 11, 2006)

I've never had a Tivo so maybe I don't know what I'm missing. I am happy with the HR20 and its functionality. 

About a year ago when I was looking into a DVR for the first time I read quite a bit about the Tivo and the hacks available for it. When I got my first two R15s I do have to say that I was disappointed that they were not hackable. I don't think about it very often, but when I do I sure wish the R15 and HR20 had MRV capabilities. That is the one thing I miss that I never had.


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## reweiss (Jan 27, 2007)

I like to ensure I'm comparing apples with apples. If you factor out the hardware (the HR20 is obviously newer and has better hardware) then from a gui standpoint, I feel the TiVo is superior. It's much easier to navigate around. The realiability of recording a "season pass" is much higher than the "series link".

What remains is the functionality and the hardware.

If they were to develop a modern DirecTiVo with comparable hardware and also include some of the latest and soon to be released features (i.e. VOD) then the TiVo would be a slam dunk for me.

However, since the HR20 already has the better hardware and those functions. If D** were to make "series link" more reliable and modify the gui to make it a bit more user friendly, I'd probably lean towards the HR20.

I'm hoping (since I have both DirecTiVo and an HR20) that this poll ultimately shows D** where each devices shortcomings are. In the end I suspect it will be much easier make improvements to the HR20 interface and "series link" reliability then it will be for TiVo to improve their hardware, include the new functionality and provide software updates in a timely manner (they have the added overhead of having to run everything through D**). 

(I assume this statement is more than my perception) Since this forum has been helpful to D** in making other improvement, do you think they would solicit our feedback or let us provide our recommendations for GUI changes? (Even going as far as to have a contest to redesign the GUI by creating our own graphics for what the menus should look like). Just a thought...


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## fappy (Jun 30, 2007)

I actually like my HR20, it's come a long way, but I LOVE my tivo, that's the difference. I would switch back to tivo in a second if I could.


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## uscboy (Sep 5, 2006)

Agrajag said:


> I loved my early TiVo's but lost faith in them many years ago when they lost focus and threw away the advantage they had. They started to believe their own press and neglected to realize that they hadn't actually perfected their own core application.
> 
> There are many of us that would love to have the OPTION of a TiVo-styled guide. I miss that more than anything else on my TiVo. To me the only thing beneficial on the TiVo is what they have patents on. Pay them for a license, incorporate them and move on. They need the cash. We could use the features. They want to call it TiVo software? Fine. I don't care what it's called but I don't need a box built by them.


Bad point and good point.

First, I don't think Tivo threw anything away. Tivo is VERY dependant on other 
companies like DirecTV and now cable companies who use CableCards. Without 
those folks, they were bound to fail. DVRs should integrate, period. And unless 
the Tivo works with your provider, then your only option is IR blasters and tying 
up boxes while an external standalone unit records based on STB outputs. 
Which, for HD, isn't really an option, hence the move to CableCards - really their 
only move until the Comcast deal. Tivo has to have these deals to survive I'm 
afraid in the days of proprietary encrypted signals. I'd rather use an HR20 than a 
standalone Tivo, that's for sure. But I'd rather use an HR30-DTivo than an HR20 
personally.

Second, it's a good point about them not building the box. Let it run the Tivo OS, 
but let DirecTV build/brand them however they want beyond that. DirecTV 
engineers should work with Tivo on feature development and software updates.

Actually, scratch that... DirecTV should just buy Tivo. That'd make for a great HR30.


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## puffnstuff (Sep 2, 2006)

Just 3 letters DLB . Besides that I love my HR20 but all of my friends and family still refuse to use it because of DLB not being there . So they both sit only to be used by me . Oh you should hear the jokes , they are getting to be old and I still can't give them an answer why .


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## DC_SnDvl (Aug 17, 2006)

Again - TIVO

Just give us the stinkn' DLB.

Don't they read these forums?

All we want is DLB


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## pigskins (Sep 8, 2007)

YES!

DLB. Period. There's 2 inputs for a reason, let us flip between them and fly through all those commercials without needing a 10-step workaround!


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## tfederov (Nov 18, 2005)

Not no, but heck no. TiVo was too slow and didn't (doesn't) have the same features as the HR20. All of my HR20s are networked without hacks for one thing and they're faster by a long shot response-wise.


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## dpfaunts (Oct 17, 2006)

I like the speed of the HR-20 and would hate to "re-learn" the TIVO


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## lman (Dec 21, 2006)

DC_SnDvl said:


> Again - TIVO
> 
> Just give us the stinkn' DLB.
> 
> ...


This discussion has been going on for over a year. So obviously DTV does not monitor this forum. Or could it be that there is no financial incentive to improve this inferior DVR. When they start losing customers they might figure it out.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

lman said:


> This discussion has been going on for over a year. So obviously DTV does not monitor this forum. Or could it be that there is no financial incentive to improve this inferior DVR. When they start losing customers they might figure it out.


Actually... they monitor it a whole lot more then most of you do.

And the DLB "arguments" have been going on for almost 2 years now...
In about 6 weeks, the R15 users will be past their 2 years... so let's see the loss of customers over this..

I doubt it will manifest itself to any magnitude that DirecTV has to have a financial impact...


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## lman (Dec 21, 2006)

pigskins said:


> YES!
> 
> DLB. Period. There's 2 inputs for a reason, let us flip between them and fly through all those commercials without needing a 10-step workaround!


Maybe DTV has a financial reason for making it difficult to skip the commercials.


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## mikeybc (Apr 22, 2007)

MPEG-4 version of the DTivo would be my choice. Even without discussing the sometimes lackluster stability of the HR20, I still prefer the Tivo interface and of course DLB option over the HR20 interface and lack of DLB. They have made some great strides on the HR20 obviously with VOD and other cool features, but I still prefer the quality look of the Tivo interface over the sometimes thrown together views of the HR20. 

Don't get me wrong the changes made to the HR20 over the past year have been greatly appreciated. It's just my opinion and experiences that say the DTivo, with added MPEG-4 channels, would be the better receiver. I still run an HR10 - 250 and love it every day, outside of missing out of all the new great MPEG-4 channels...


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

lman said:


> Maybe DTV has a financial reason for making it difficult to skip the commercials.


So it is difficult to hit the SLIP or the FF button, on a recorded program?
As that is the primary point of a DVR... to watch RECORDED content... isn't it?

If you just wanted a tuner, to watch live TV..... then why have a DVR?

It has been stated many times over... it has nothing to do with "financial reasons"


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## lman (Dec 21, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Actually... they monitor it a whole lot more then most of you do.
> 
> And the DLB "arguments" have been going on for almost 2 years now...
> In about 6 weeks, the R15 users will be past their 2 years... so let's see the loss of customers over this..
> ...


Well then I guess they just ignore their customers.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

lman said:


> Well then I guess they just ignore their customers.


That's it.... you figured it out....


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## cookpr (Aug 24, 2006)

Voted for TIVO, but the HR20 has many positives for it as well - quicker interfaces/quicker ability to move through menus.

Overall, would simply be nice to have the 'option' to choose.


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## mikeybc (Apr 22, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> If you just wanted a tuner, to watch live TV..... then why have a DVR?


I guess my only response to this is Earl, without being too argumentative, is sometimes you don't want to have to record something to be able to pause live TV, switch to another channel, and then be able to go back to where I left off. With the HR20, I can't even do that while recording a show.

Case in point. I was recording the Bears game last night. My wife wanted to watch a show we had recorded earlier in the week. My best case scenario would allow me to pause the game so when I stopped watching the other show I wasn't forced to see the score of the game 60 minutes later, but where I wanted to pause it. This isn't allowed.

For a shorter program, with DLB and the old DTivo, I didn't even need to record the 1st tuner. I could just pause, watch the other show and then come back without skipping a beat...

Unless I am missing the point, this would be my take on how it could work to ease the pain of some users.


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## farjo08 (Oct 17, 2006)

If you had asked this question shortly after the HR20 came out, my reponse would be a "Hell Yeah!" Now after working through most of the issues (I know there are some that bother others, but for how I use it, it now works perfectly) I would NOT trade my HR20 for a DirecTivo.

I still have a SAT-T60 and HR10-250 (both hacked, so yes, there is more you can tune / tweak with the Tivos and that is the only advantage I see with those) but if you had asked if I would trade either my SAT-T60 or HR10-250 straight up for a HR20, my response "Hell Yeah!"

Just to put things in perspective, I bought a SVR???? (Sony's original standalone) about a week or so after they came out, so I have been using a Tivo since it has come out and when I originally got the HR20 I was disappointed and preferred the Tivo interface, functionality, etc. Now it is the exact opposite - maybe because I spend more time with the HR20 then the Tivo and spoiled by the additional HD content I get on the HR20.

So to summarize:

1) Would I trade my HR20 for an MPEG-4 compatible DirecTivo -> NO!
2) Would I trade a DirecTivo (SAT-T60/HR10-250) for a HR20 -> YES!


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## aktick (Sep 1, 2006)

I also voted that I'd trade my HR20s for Tivos, but not nearly as emphatically as I would have a month ago.

Things I've come to like about the HR20 over Tivo:

-Faster menu/guide
-Basically always have a small window so I can keep watching what's on
-30 second skip stacking
-12 hour skip when browsing the guide
-Caller ID (maybe Tivo had/has this, and I never used it? Not sure)
-Being able to browse the guide while watching a recorded show
-HD space remaining
-90 minute buffer

Things I still like more about Tivo or annoy me about HR20:

-The slow-mo button (holding down play) is annoying, prefer the ability to pause and then hit slow-mo
-Tivo interface is both easier to use overall (though I've been warming to the HR20) and just plain prettier  
-Season Passes still seem to be better than Series Recordings or whatever they're called
-I like the 8 second back function better than the (5 second?) back function on the HR20
-Dual live buffers, obviously
-The remotes...I actually use an MX-500, and it's much harder to program it for the HR20 remote than the Tivo remote because of the extra buttons on the HR20 remote...ultimately it's not that big of a deal, but it seems D* just kept adding a new button for every function they came up with, while Tivo had things more planned out

Of course some other things that the HR20 will have in the future would probably get me closer to the center, like DOD and remote booking.

Still, I'd go with Tivo for now. The only single thing that could get me fully in the HR20 camp would be if DLB were added.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

aktick said:


> but it seems D* just kept adding a new button for every function they came up with, while Tivo had things more planned out


Has TiVo ever come up with a usage for that Window button?


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## oakwcj (Sep 28, 2006)

I like the HR20 interface better than the TiVo's, but I would make the trade for hacking, keyword wishlist autorecords, overall better reliability in terms of recording what I want recorded, and DLB.


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## cwdonahue (Jun 6, 2007)

I switched from an old Hughes Tivo DVR to the HR20 in July to prepare for the launch of the new HD channels. While things operate a bit differently, I'm over all that by now. I've adapted to the HR20 and it really isn't much different than my old Tivo DVR. It does a few things better than my old Tivo DVR. My wife has learned how to use it and she's not complaining at all. That is a solid endorsement from someone that doesn't handle technology well at all, let alone changes in technology.

I still want dual buffers and a prioritizer list that allows more than 50 entries, though.


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## rb5505 (Dec 23, 2004)

after 10 days with the directv hd dvr, i simply cannot understand why most anyone could ever favor it over the tivo version. it's just not close. maybe after more time with it, that may change, but i'm guessing that would take multiple upgrades. for now though, using them side by side, wow, there's no way directv's version is better. so far i've only seen 3 positives with the new one--space remaining meter, mpeg4 allows more shows on the drive and more hits per search. that's it.


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## chicagojim (Sep 13, 2006)

After 13 months of the HR-20, I still get annoyed by the lack of wishlists. It think it is because of the premier season. There is no rhyme or reason to the series links I have set to catch first runs. I find myself grooming the matches daily to get rid of errant hits.

TiVo has wishlist functionality in spades.

However, I'm am now used to the HR-20 interface. It is speedy and once you get the shortcuts figured out, easy to use. So, I'll vote to keep the HR-20.


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## marshdom (Sep 14, 2007)

First, as a fairly infrequent poster/reader and relative non-techie, let me say:

a) I hugely appreciate Earl's participation and insights on this board (hate to disagree with him!)

b) I think the HR20 has a lot of great features (especially the picture-in-picture on the guide & list, better speed/performance, and eSATA)

But, with that said, I have to give a no-brainer vote for Tivo. As many others have said, the DLB's, non-grid guides, better remote, and "wife-friendly" usability are all keys factors. The one thing I haven't seen mentioned (maybe I missed it?), however, is the ability to "watch" an HD recording in FF (1x) ... especially sports. As a busy person (kids, work, etc) and HUGE sports fan, I frequently record games and watch part (i.e. - the first 3 quarters or 6 innings) or all of them in FF mode. I used to do this all the time with my HD-Tivo, but I've noticed that HD sports recordings on the HR20 are not very watchable in 1x FF (much too "choppy" - or maybe just a bit too fast??). Interestingly, the choppiness isn't as bad in SD, but who wants to record a game in SD?  

Am I alone in this last observation? Maybe this "feature" isn't a big deal to many people. Does anyone disagree - and think that "watching" sports in 1x FF on the HR20 is as good as on the HD-Tivo? Is a tweaking to the speeds of the FF on the HR20 a possibility?

FWIW, even taking away this "watching in 1x FF" issue for me, I'd still give a slight nod to Tivo. This is NOT to say that I don't like the HR20, as it has some nice features and it appears (from reading this board) that DirecTV has done a nice job making improvements to it over the past year (which is promising).

Thanks again, Earl, for your participation and insights on this board.

Edit: Earl ... after seeing your new thread about "usability" of the HR20 versus Tivo ... I have to add two other things to this post ... 1) slow-mo is another HUGE factor in my love of the Tivo over the HR20 ... especially when watching sports ... with the 3-second delay (and faster speed of slow-mo on the HR20?), the slow-mo feature is almost unusable on the HR20 ... and 2) while far less important than slow-mo, the "skip to tick" feature on the Tivo is much easier to use than on the HR20 ...


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## montyshaw (Jul 18, 2007)

This poll really needs 2 additional options: 

I would keep my HR-20 but I've never had a tivo

I would switch to tivo but I've never had a tivo.

And the 2 original poll options should add 'and I've had a tivo.'

It is stupid for someone to vote to not switch to a tivo if they've never had a tivo. How would they know? If you've ever had a tivo and an hr20, you'd pick tivo in a nano-second. Just for the fact that a tivo would ALWAYS record according to your selections vs a hr20 which is in fact a random-video-recorder. Not to mention CIR, DLB, and a better ui. Or lets just say a significant-other friendly UI.

]Monty[


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## gully_foyle (Jan 18, 2007)

funners said:


> of course there is no comparison.... they're different machines...directv would be sued and lose if they made the same interface...


How is that, considering that TiVo has given a broad license to D*?


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## gully_foyle (Jan 18, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Has TiVo ever come up with a usage for that Window button?


Well, on the HD-Tivo it's called ratio and has a use.

Has the HR20 team really thought out the existing method of setting recording defaults? Or why the Recording menus are all off among Help and Settings rather than on the first menu screen?

I could pick at TiVo, too, mainly on speed, but the structure is a lot cleaner.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

kmill14 said:


> What are all these features? It does some things faster, but what features does the HR-20 have that a Tivo box can't? I'm not talking about the old DTivos...I'm talking about a current Tivo box (that of course doesn't currently work with DTV)


I keep reading about how the HR20 is "faster". In what specific way?


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## gleytch (Aug 26, 2007)

I'd switch to a MPEG4 TiVo without hesitation. The HR20 is okay, but after having used TiVo's since the early 14 hour models, I find it very hard to love.

My reasons for choosing the TiVo in this poll:
1. Suggestions/Thumbs system
2. The remote
3. DLB, of course
4. The ability to pause live TV and have it stay that way while watching something else.
5. The TiVo interface.

I miss my TiVo.

Greg


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## Sirshagg (Dec 30, 2006)

rich584 said:


> I keep reading about how the HR20 is "faster". In what specific way?


HR20 is MUCH faster in rearranging series links. On the Tivo you can go to dinner while you wait for it to finish. That's the only place I've really noticed the HR20 being faster.

I definitely feel the Tivo is faster in the guide. And I think they are just about the same everywhere else.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

kcmurphy88 said:


> Well, on the HD-Tivo it's called ratio and has a use.
> 
> Has the HR20 team really thought out the existing method of setting recording defaults? Or why the Recording menus are all off among Help and Settings rather than on the first menu screen?
> 
> I could pick at TiVo, too, mainly on speed, but the structure is a lot cleaner.


As for your first question...

What is the problem with having the Recording Defaults in the menu that is available, when you are setting up your recordings? Why does it have to be in a full menu, under settings?

What listing would you like to be in on the first menu? Scheduler?
I don't know why it is under Help & Settings, other that is the first default button you get on the menu.

I rarely go that way anyway... I usually go via the ToDo list... : LIST->YELLOW


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

kcmurphy88 said:


> How is that, considering that TiVo has given a broad license to D*?


Big difference between using patented technology... vs a direct copy of a product.


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## bafuerst (Feb 18, 2007)

aktick said:


> I also voted that I'd trade my HR20s for Tivos, but not nearly as emphatically as I would have a month ago.
> 
> Things I've come to like about the HR20 over Tivo:
> 
> ...


What is 30 seconds skip stacking. I assume you mean that you can press the skip button several times to stack them. Example pressing skip 4 times will FF 2 min. If that is what you are talking about I can do that on the Tivo and even though it does not countdown the number of times I pressed the skip button it doesn't matter because it actually skipped ahead as apposed to the HR20 FF skip.


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## DogLover (Mar 19, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> What is the problem with having the Recording Defaults in the menu that is available, when you are setting up your recordings? Why does it have to be in a full menu, under settings?


The problem is that there is no indication to the user that it is there. If you are in the middle of adding/editing recording settings, there is no other reason to to go to the menu. Every other item in that menu is a different task. Unless you are know there are context sensitive menus and are looking for them, there is no way to know that function is there. Unless a user is "told" that it is there (by a help screen, a manual, or another user), it is essentially a "hidden" function.


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## JohnLips (May 24, 2006)

gleytch said:


> I'd switch to a MPEG4 TiVo without hesitation. The HR20 is okay, but after having used TiVo's since the early 14 hour models, I find it very hard to love.
> 
> My reasons for choosing the TiVo in this poll:
> 1. Suggestions/Thumbs system
> ...


Add DLB and I'll keep the hr20


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## Gotchaa (Jan 25, 2006)

TiVo for the community software enhancements a.k.a "hacks"

Is this something being considered or just a fun poll?


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## gully_foyle (Jan 18, 2007)

I would trade straight across for an HR10-250 that did Mpeg4/Ka and would support SWM and OTA. The only nagging reservation is that the HR10's video always seemed too soft, and the interface was a bit slow. 

But certain features: the editable channel list; the ability to alter HD formats; the full use of the disk; the 3rd party support; the dual buffers; the well-thought-out menu structure and the list guide are all missed. 

Never had any real issues with the TiVo that InstantCake couldn't solve, and the ability to add a second drive was a big plus. I guess I've never been big on closed systems, maybe that's a bias.

The HR20 is a fairly amazing device considering it's humble origins in a nearly failed design. But it still need significant work regarding both stability and functionality before it outclasses what TiVo had two years ago. 

Features needed:

DLB
The ability to kill channels completely
HD Format modes, particularly stretch, squeeze and zoom.
True second drive capability.
Sharing video among local HR20s
Clean up and restructure the menu tree.
Nested search

Then maybe.


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## gully_foyle (Jan 18, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> As for your first question...
> 
> What is the problem with having the Recording Defaults in the menu that is available, when you are setting up your recordings? Why does it have to be in a full menu, under settings?


Because it is in a non-intuitive and undocumented place. There is no way to find it via the menu, you have to stumble upon it or read 3rd party docs. One has to know to press MENU while in a recording setup screen. Why would I know that from the available info?


> What listing would you like to be in on the first menu? Scheduler?
> I don't know why it is under Help & Settings, other that is the first default button you get on the menu.
> I rarely go that way anyway... I usually go via the ToDo list... : LIST->YELLOW


1) Yes, I'd like to have Scheduler on the first menu page.
2) That brings up an interesting point. The HR20 remote is particular troublesome for anyone using a universal remote, since it UTTERLY RELIES on unique buttons. Not that one cannot use other buttons or macros to reproduce the color keys, but the overreliance on this one method, while never fixing the unnecesarily awkward alternatives via arrow-select (e.g. the idiotic "Go there" thing. Of course I want to go there) makes the use of universal remotes more difficult. And anything more than a TV/DVR/DVD system needs a universal remote with macros. There is also an aspect of arbitrary and contextual assignment to the color keys as well which many people have no patience to learn.


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## mr anderson (Oct 6, 2006)

To me, the main things that the Tivo has over the HR20 are:

1. DLB

2. Better looking and more intuitive GUI (This is personal opinion I know, but I actually base this on other people using both my tivo and the hr20 like my wife, a colleague, father-in-law, etc. whom have stated their displeasure with using it.)

3.Being able to pause, have it stay, and surf another channel and being able to return to that same point.

4. Better remote. The directv remote seems like it was designed with no particular plan in mind, whereas the tivo remote seems like it was designed with the purpose to be used with a dvr. Better layout and ergonomics.
___

Things the HR20 has over the tivo:

1. Faster response time. (Newer, faster, hardware)

2. mpeg-4 capability.

3. Picture in guide. (Could easily live without though)

4. 90 minute buffer. (Must say that I'd rather have 2, 30 minute buffers if given a choice, rather than 1 90 minute).
_______

I use my hr20 and it's constantly improving, but I don't think it will ever get to be as good as the tivo unless D* is willing to add some of those features Tivo users so feverishly love...


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## TMullenJr (Feb 23, 2006)

I wouldn't replace my HR-20 with a Tivo, but I would replace it with an updated UTV unit.


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## LOBO2999 (Apr 9, 2004)

I would trade mine , but 1st I would take a 10 pound sledge hammer to the HR20 befor sending it back and yes even if I had to pay full price for smashing it.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Gotchaa said:


> TiVo for the community software enhancements a.k.a "hacks"
> 
> Is this something being considered or just a fun poll?


Wouldn't call it "just for fun"...

But the first part... no, it is not something that is being considered.


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## bidger (Nov 19, 2005)

Don't miss TiVo one little bit and it was 7 years ago this month that I started using one. I now find it slow, dated, and oVerraTed. I prefer being able to view the Guide and Menus while watching recorded shows to anything TiVo offers.


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## jjohns (Sep 15, 2007)

I HR20'd that so I can watch the partial recording later tonight.


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## Sander (Jun 3, 2007)

I have no experience with the DirecTV version of TiVo, only the TiVo-2. However, if the proposed swap would give me HD, dual tuners, VOD, and ease of recording PPV's, I would probably swap. My main reasons would be TiVo ToGo and skip vs. slip.

I am comparing the HR20-700 that I have with the old TiVo-2 I used to use.

*HR20 advantages*


Easy to set up PPV recordings
VOD
_Dual tuners_
_HD compatibiliy_
Easy upgrade with eSATA
PIG

*TiVo-2 Advantages*


More reliable recordings
_Ability to tranfer shows from one TiVo to another (TiVo ToGo) _
_Ability to upload and download from PC's (TiVo ToGo)_ 
No problem syncing audio with video and less pixelation
_30-sec skip rather than slip_
_Easier to skip to tick marks_
Easier slo-mo


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## alwayscool (Sep 24, 2006)

*D* are you listening to your customers?*


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## garydhunter (Aug 24, 2007)

This is a tough question as I have 2 HR10-250's and loved the ability to get OTA from the local channels. The HR20-100 is getting better and better, I really like the folders and yes the Dual Buffers I miss, but I am hopeful I can get VOD, remote programming etc, in the near future. I don't see that happening any time soon with the HR10-250's even though it can be done with hacks, and not in favor of doing that route. I will stick with my 2-HR20-100's just hoping I can get some new CE software to test with.


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## judson_west (Jun 15, 2006)

I gave up my HR10 for an HR20 just because the current HR10 didn't support the reception of the new MPEG4 channels. If this were not the case, I would still be a happy HR10 user.

Yes, the HR10 interface is slower and reorg'ing the Season Passes is slow, but the overall look and feel of the TiVo interface is very smooth and organized. The reliability of recording using the TiVo has been top notch. The WishList function is head and shoulders above search/autorecord. And now that I have more space for my MPEG4 HD recordings, I miss TiVo's Suggestions.


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## MikeR (Oct 6, 2006)

Not trading for any TiVo here. Personally don't want to see any future Tivo involvement with Directv.


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

LOBO2999 said:


> I would trade mine , but 1st I would take a 10 pound sledge hammer to the HR20 befor sending it back and yes even if I had to pay full price for smashing it.


in my case a shotgun to the HR10 was stress relief, watching it blow to pieces was theraputic


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

I was at Costco today and took a good look at a Series 3 TiVo and the eSATA function is for "future use". Now that I have the eSATA in hand, I am glad that I voted for the HR20.


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## kmill14 (Jun 12, 2007)

rich584 said:


> I was at Costco today and took a good look at a Series 3 TiVo and the eSATA function is for "future use". Now that I have the eSATA in hand, I am glad that I voted for the HR20.


eSata works for the Series 3 and Tivo HD box. Just like HR-20, it is not officially supported, so you use it at your own risk.


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## techdimwit (Sep 23, 2007)

We waited till zero hour to trade in our TiVo 10-250 for an HR20-700 because we had read all the buzz and were scared silly. There's a lot to like about the features of the HR20. I love that I can go to menus and not lose the picture and sound of what I'm watching. Love, love, love the 12 hour advance and reverse and the quick record, double click for "season pass" and ease of deleting stuff (double dash is awesome). Strangely enough, I also like the remote. About the only thing I miss about my TiVo is the dual buffers. That's annoying but we're working around it and hope that someday D* can fix it. So far, so good with our HR20 and I think the good things outweigh the bad. As long as D* keeps the HD coming, I'm happy. Just give me my local channels in HD but that's another thread.


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## drded (Aug 23, 2006)

I voted to keep my HR20 and not trade for a Tivo. If I live to be a hundred I will never understand the blind devotion that Tivo-holics and Maca-holics have for their respective products.

I've not owned a Tivo, but when I visit my mom who does, the interface and operation seems slow and primitive. My HR20 has done everything I've asked it to do, so rates well in my book.

I hope Direct IS listening and doesn't drop the fine work they've done for those emotional pleas for the non-existent utopian Tivo.

Dave


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## 3rdGenBruin (Oct 24, 2006)

As I posted when I first got my HR-20 about a year ago, the UI of the HR-20 is closer to UltimateTV than Tivo and I vastly prefer that interface.

The things I do most with my DVR are record shows and watch them. For the HR-20, I prefer the the following features:

- one touch record (without leaving what I'm watching)
- two touch series record (without leaving what I'm watching)
- picture in guide
- 12 hour jump ahead / jump back in guide
- overall system speed (my Tivo is painfully slow when setting season passes, scrolling in the guide, etc. whereas the HR-20 is virtually instantaneous)
- contextual menu (without leaving what I'm watching)
- mini guide

To me these features trumpet most everything Tivo offers because I use them all the time.

On the Tivo side
- Tivo has been more stable for me (100% vs. 98%, sure that 2% was annoying, but for the most part I've had a rock solid HR-20)
- Trick play is more polished
- 30 second skip (this is the one feature I'm most upset about with D*. To me it is a total slap in the face of their customers to bow down to the content providers when EVERYONE ELSE has a skip feature, even if only through a secret code)

I just don't understand everyone who thinks the Tivo UI is better. I guess to each their own. Remember back in the day when computers were single threaded and you could only run one application at a time. You wouldn't put up with it now, why put up with it in your DVR?


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## 3rdGenBruin (Oct 24, 2006)

drded said:


> I voted to keep my HR20 and not trade for a Tivo. If I live to be a hundred I will never understand the blind devotion that Tivo-holics and Maca-holics have for their respective products.


I'm with you on the Tivo, but come on, Macs are just better


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## dwlevy (Sep 4, 2007)

I'd swap in a second. To be honest, the HR20 interface is starting to grow on me, however I have had to return two of them in the last two weeks and the third is getting flakier by the day. It locks up almost daily and can sometimes require five or six reboots before it finally will come back up.

My TiVos, on the other hand, have been running reliably for six years (my HR10-250 for over three years). They almost never miss a recording (I think I can count the number over the last six years on one hand) and except for a bad HDMI card in my HR10-250 that I had repaired, have had no hardware issues whatsoever.

Oh, and the DLB rocks!!


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## JerryElbow (Jun 14, 2007)

I'm not saying I wouldn't trade my HR20 in for a TiVo because I like it so much better than the TiVO but I don't remember the TiVo being so superior in any particular way that it'd be worth the bother trading. If both could record roughly the same number of hours of HD off of the new and old DirecTV satellites, I'd probably be equally happy with either. I've had a TiVo, three different DVRs from my cable provider (though all ran roughly the same software) and an HR20. While there are probably a couple things that the TiVo did that the HR20 doesn't (or perhaps simply expose them more easily), the HR20 seems to be at least as capable over all and (so far) just as reliable. I thought my wife would possibly complain that the interface isn't as friendly on the HR20 as it is on the TiVo (she's somewhat techno-phobic) but she hasn't complained at all.


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## kareztt (Feb 6, 2007)

If any body want's to trade I'd be glad to trade my HR10-250 for an HR20-700. Of course there is that pesky lease thing but I'm so used to the HR20 that I actually prefer it over the Tivo model. Drives me nuts having both of them since the buttons are so dis-similar in layout.


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## dwlevy (Sep 4, 2007)

drded said:


> I voted to keep my HR20 and not trade for a Tivo. If I live to be a hundred I will never understand the blind devotion that Tivo-holics and Maca-holics have for their respective products.
> 
> I've not owned a Tivo, but when I visit my mom who does, the interface and operation seems slow and primitive. My HR20 has done everything I've asked it to do, so rates well in my book.
> 
> ...


The difference is that TiVo and Apple create products with user interfaces that focus on how the user does things rather than on what things the device itself can do. A seemingly subtle differentiation, but remarkable differences in the user experience are created by this mentality.

The proof (or result) is the so-called "blind devotion that Tivo-holics and Maca-holics have for their respective products".


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## kmill14 (Jun 12, 2007)

3rdGenBruin said:


> I just don't understand everyone who thinks the Tivo UI is better. I guess to each their own. Remember back in the day when computers were single threaded and you could only run one application at a time. You wouldn't put up with it now, why put up with it in your DVR?


Thats funny...I could have sworn you were talking about the dual live buffer feature the old washed up Tivo's have had for years.


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## terrelliott (May 7, 2007)

I would not in a million years trade my HR20 for a Tivo of any sort. I would however trade my HR20 plus pay extra for an Ultimate TV HD receiver.:grin:


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## rmetcalf (Jun 5, 2007)

With my CEO hat on...

Parity can be reached in the breadth of HD/SD programming amongst terrestrial and sattelite providers. The 'triple play' available to terrestrial providers is really nothing more than a collection of widely available commodities - price will drive consumer behavior.

Other unique media services will drive differentiation... and all will need a platform 'inside the home' that serves as the interface for consumption of these services... the DVR is the current instantiation of that platform - much more will come. That platform/interface needs to be as ubiquitous and reliable as the dial tone or electrical socket.

The product and engineering staff for this platform are of the utmost strategic importance to the company - to drive differentiation and future customer growth and retention of the current customer base.

Frankly, I would be looking to make some changes to the product and engineering staff here... significant grooming to enhance productivity. I think there is plenty of empirical and antectdotal evidence that supports the need.

Bottom line: I would spend LOTS of money to go after some Apple/TIVO product managers and engineers to put the company on a better path.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Go on, rmetcalf. You have me interested, tell me more about how you would make it better!


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## rmetcalf (Jun 5, 2007)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Go on, rmetcalf. You have me interested, tell me more about how you would make it better!


So much to cover... perhaps in another thread...


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## BillyBob_jcv (Feb 12, 2006)

Well...

As much as I like what CEO rmetcalf has written - I must put my devil's advocate hat on and point out that EVERY home product vendor thinks their product should be at the center of the powerpoint diagram, with every other device in the house attached to THEM. Personally, I don't see the DVR as the center of the home services HW platform. What is it really? It's a data stream decoder with a storage device and a user interface. But there is so much more to the big picture that is home entertainment. I think real advances are made when the conventional lines between what devices are part of the home "system" are erased and redrawn around new technology that disrupts the status quo. That's what the DVR was when it was introduced, as was Pong, the PC, the VCR, the internet, etc - they all redefined what we knew as "home entertainment" - and that's hopefully where we continue to go as the cycles continue. The _trick_, of course, isn't knowing where we've been - but where we are going - what's next? What is that next disruptive technology? Sorry - if I knew that, do you think I would be wasting my time on 'net forums?


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## Sharkie_Fan (Sep 26, 2006)

I answered "no" for this poll. I like my HR20 and would keep it. However, if there was an MPEG4 TIVO available, I would certainly love to get my hands on it, as my wife would much prefer the Tivo to the HR20. She's just more comfortable maneuvering around a Tivo and not really interested in figuring out how to get to all the places she needs to go on the HR20.


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## 3rdGenBruin (Oct 24, 2006)

kmill14 said:


> Thats funny...I could have sworn you were talking about the dual live buffer feature the old washed up Tivo's have had for years.


Well, like I said earlier in my post, I care about the features I use most. DLB is not something I used very often with the Tivo. I use the guide all the time. I record shows all the time. I use the mini guide all the time. Even if i had DLB, I'd only really use it when watching sports on the weekend. So while it is a feature I would like, I wouldn't trade DLB for a slower guide, no picture in guide, etc.

That is why I used the computer analogy. To me the basics are the OS thus the reference to single threads. To me, DLB is an advanced feature that I don't require.


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## lbweber (Nov 28, 2006)

I am a long time TiVO user and a recent HR20 user. I have also have extensive experience with a company that designs and builds DVRs for the cable industry.

The UI for TiVO is head and shoulders above the HR20 - period. It is not that the TiVO is so good, it has problems also. But what it does have is simplicity and consistency. The HR20 seems to have features tucked in all sorts of odd places. To go to the prioritizer I have to remember to go to the play list. To navigate the menus you use the cursor buttons - EXCEPT to leave the menu, for that you have to use Back or Exit. Using Back or Exit is fine when you are several levels deep, but when you are at the top of the menu tree you have to take your fingers off the cursors buttons and find one keys that closes the menu.

The HR20 is faster that TiVO (or at least my TiVO because I have a series 1 - like I said, long time user). Re-ordering season passes on TiVO gives a new meaning to "Please wait a moment" - for me a moment can be an hour! (I have a large disk with lots of pending programs). 

In answering in favor of TiVO I assume both units have the same quality and the same basic features. I assume that they both work - something not entirely true for the HR20. 

A feature of TiVO I require is the use of wish-lists and picking programs that meet certain categories if nothing else is of a higher priority. I thought that autorecord would get me close. It might if it weren't for the "All the channels I Get" bug. I tried setting up an autorecord for Travel programs. It started recording programs in Spanish (but I don't speak Spanish) and then it started to record programs from the east coast feed for networks (even though I am on the west coast) and premium channels I don't get. 

DBSTalk has a lot of articles about the problem and a number of suggestions how to fix it, but articles and clever ideas aren't any good if not implemented. I would vote to attach autorecord to a favorites list and I would be mostly happy, give me a way to specify categories without having to commit to a keyword and I would be home.

There are things about the HR20 I like but in balance the TiVO approach to the UI is better. I don't care that this theoretical machine has the TiVO UI, just an organized consistent one.

And oh yeah, let's hear it for 30 second skip


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

I voted yes, I would trade my HR20 for a TiVo. 

And now, a little background information as to why I would do so:

When DVRs first came out, I thought they were stupid! They were WAY more expensive than VCRs... and when I found out that you had to pay a monthly fee, I thought they were even stupider. What's the big deal with a digital VCR?

Later, after my cousin got married, she and her husband bought a DISH 508 PVR, and I couldn't understand why her husband wanted something like this. I also later learned that there were no fees connected to the 508... unlike most DVRs I heard of, and so when we were considering moving from DirecTV to Dish Network (due to their HD expansion with the SuperDISH, possibility of SD-LIL, and being tired of dealing with Pegasus), I planned on getting a USED 508 (their new PVR, the 510 required a fee)... but when we decided to stay with DirecTV, I decided to try out a TiVo... and I quickly replaced all our receivers with TiVo.

I still live at home (yes, get your jokes in now, but it works for me... for the moment), and usually my adding of electronic equipment solicits groans from my Mom and Grandmother, and the TiVo was no different, but once they started using it, they changed their tune. TiVo is now one of my Mom's favorite inventions, and she loves being able to watch her shows whenever she wants to, saves some she wants to keep, use WishLists to find shows that interest her, and have a folder full of Suggestions whenever she wants to watch something different. My Grandmother loves having access to WishLists so she can find stars in older movies on TCM and other channels... and best of all, even though they are somewhat technical savvy (especially my Mom), they're always asking me how to use CE equipment, and with the TiVo, they took to it naturally.

As for me, TiVo changed the way I watched TV! Yes, it offered me some of the same functions I have now like recording TV (when the HR20 chooses to record it), the ability to record two programs at once (when the HR20 chooses to record it), and other such features, but also allowed me to always have something to watch (Suggestions), and the ability to search for programs that interested me. TiVo allowed me the ability to make TV, TV MY WAY!! The HR20 doesn't.

Your poll was whether or not I'd trade my HR20 for a DirecTiVo, and the answer is yes, I would. If I could swap for a DirecTiVo that had the same functions as a TiVo Series 3, you bet your sweet bippy I would!

That being said, if DirecTV continues to work on improving the HR20 (they've improved it since I've had it, and I've only had it since July... I think... time flies), and they get to work on improving the reliability, improving the search functions (hopefully to the extent of the SA TiVos, or exceed them), add the ability to turn off PIPL (Picture-In-Playlist), I would give it a lot more thought. If they then turned to improving the GUI (aesthetics, speed, gracefullness, etc...), I would have to give a lot more consideration into keeping the HR20.

As it is now, the TiVo is TV my way, the HR20 is a Digital V(C)R...

~Alan


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## skakusha (Sep 16, 2006)

Dom_P said:


> First off, long time lurker, first time poster
> 
> Voted for Tivo, not that the HR20 is bad but rather that it's user interfaces is a bit poorer than the Tivo, and the fact that it occasionally hiccups and I end up with recorded shows that wont play back.
> 
> ...


Now that you have refreshed my memory about "Season Recordings" I miss that too. I also like being able to record more than 50 Season Passes. As I work from home, and my girlfriend watches very different shows, I ended up getting a second DVR for the Home Theater room.


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## waporvare (Sep 18, 2007)

Earl, why are you suddenly asking all these Tivo related questions?


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## BillyBob_jcv (Feb 12, 2006)

I voted yes - I would trade, however it is a very qualified vote. I would trade only if that means I would get MRV, DLB, 30 second skip and the ability to extract shows and put them on my ipod. And, I also still want mpeg4, a faster UI and the 2-push series record. So - would I trade my HR20 for a HR10? No. Would I get an "HR30" that had the advantages of both? Absolutely!


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## rmetcalf (Jun 5, 2007)

BillyBob_jcv said:


> Well...
> 
> As much as I like what CEO rmetcalf has written - I must put my devil's advocate hat on and point out that EVERY home product vendor thinks their product should be at the center of the powerpoint diagram, with every other device in the house attached to THEM. Personally, I don't see the DVR as the center of the home services HW platform. What is it really? It's a data stream decoder with a storage device and a user interface. But there is so much more to the big picture that is home entertainment. I think real advances are made when the conventional lines between what devices are part of the home "system" are erased and redrawn around new technology that disrupts the status quo. That's what the DVR was when it was introduced, as was Pong, the PC, the VCR, the internet, etc - they all redefined what we knew as "home entertainment" - and that's hopefully where we continue to go as the cycles continue. The _trick_, of course, isn't knowing where we've been - but where we are going - what's next? What is that next disruptive technology? Sorry - if I knew that, do you think I would be wasting my time on 'net forums?


I agree. The DVR is not the final state... but acquisition/decoding/home distribution of media will be on the TOP of the priotity list for what I envision as the final state. Ever think about what could be possible in the opposite direction? How much digital media are you creating today... and what does that growth curve look like?


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## jjohns (Sep 15, 2007)

waporvare said:


> Earl, why are you suddenly asking all these Tivo related questions?


Good question.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Don't read anything more into it than it is.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

terrelliott said:


> I would not in a million years trade my HR20 for a Tivo of any sort. I would however trade my HR20 plus pay extra for an Ultimate TV HD receiver.:grin:


They were nice DVRs, weren't they?


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## NCLou (Nov 14, 2003)

Never would go back to Tivo. I never used suggestions, and very few wishlists, if any. It just isn't the way I choose recordings.

I like to surf the guide and choose things that interest me. Just like when I go to the library, I don't go there to get anything in particular, I literally walk the aisles picking out things that strike my interest.

Because of that, I adore the picture in guide. I will say that the Tivo-style guide was better set up for that kind of browsing, but the picture in guide trumps all for me. It drives my wife nuts, but I love to sit there browsing through the channels finding little gems, while watching something.

I also really like the capacity meter, even if it isn't perfectly accurate. To me it's the most obvious omission from Tivo even if it isn't truly critical. The oft repeated advice from Tivo adherents to let your drive fill up with ridiculous suggestions, and then monitor how many are disappearing as a way to judge the status of the hard drive was just ridiculous.

I don't miss DLB much. I'm 97% happy with HR20 now that we have some sort of auto correction on fast forward. If they would just fix it so it doesn't appear on FFx1, I will be thrilled. A also prefer the Tivo way of doing skip to tick or end, since I can't really do any more it on my universal remote.


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## gully_foyle (Jan 18, 2007)

waporvare said:


> Earl, why are you suddenly asking all these Tivo related questions?


While I wouldn't read anything into it, I wouldn't read anything out of it either.

D* is again paying TiVo for new mods to the HR10. Why? Hard to say. On the one hand certain people "in the know" here suggest turning them into spare parts or planters, yet D* is planning something more for them and D* itself is changing owners. It's worth noting that the new owner (Malone) was an early investor in TiVo, although I think he sold out a while ago. But he's probably not hostile to them.

Certainly the NDS Group, maker of many D* boxes (but apparently not the HR20) and owned by News Corp, will have fewer supporters at D* once News Corp exits the owner's suite.


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## tiger2005 (Sep 23, 2006)

kcmurphy88 said:


> While I wouldn't read anything into it, I wouldn't read anything out of it either.
> 
> D* is again paying TiVo for new mods to the HR10. Why? Hard to say. On the one hand certain people "in the know" here suggest turning them into spare parts or planters, yet D* is planning something more for them and D* itself is changing owners. It's worth noting that the new owner (Malone) was an early investor in TiVo, although I think he sold out a while ago. But he's probably not hostile to them.
> 
> Certainly the NDS Group, maker of many D* boxes (but apparently not the HR20) and owned by News Corp, will have fewer supporters at D* once News Corp exits the owner's suite.


IMO, D*'s future choices TiVo, In-House, etc. will be made on nothing more than costs alone. If TiVo is the cheaper route for them to go, that's the way they'll go, but I highly doubt that to be the case.


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## Agrajag (Jun 22, 2004)

Don't forget that Liberty is a fan of TiVo and that TiVo needs all the customers it can get. They are FINALLY starting to understand that their original business model wasn't the best choice so anything is possible down the line. Like it or not, TiVo has brand recognition and that can be played up in competitive marketing. Comcast could easily start putting up commercials that would make the HR20 approach seem chaotic and less reliable and it's like them to do it.

Then there's the whole 2 years left of a 3 year moratorium on legal issues. 

Interesting stuff to consider.


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## rawilson (Oct 9, 2007)

In a second! I "upgraded" to an HR20 about 2 weeks ago and we actually no longer watch as much TV in the room where we upgraded. The HD is awesome, but the lack of DLB completely changes the way I've gotten used to watching TV.


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## 40yearfan (Aug 8, 2007)

Nope. Now that my wife is used to the HR-20 and how much easier it is to operate, she would never go back and that to me is more of a deciding factor than anything else. I no longer have to tape her shows or set up a season pass as she is able to do that by herself (she refused to do so with the Tivo unit). She likes it so well, we are getting an additional unit for the M. bedroom as she sometimes needs to tape two different programs while watching a third.


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## rmsuriani (Oct 1, 2007)

I really miss the dual buffer like alot of tivo users. Does anyone know if a new version of the HR20 is due out soon? I need to upgrade the tivo hd box in the bedroom but really don't want to pay another 299 then see a newer box hit the market.


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## mikewolf13 (Jan 31, 2006)

I assume we must assume its the HR20 today in it's national release state and not consider the CEs right?

even so, I am somewhat surprised at the reuslts (so far) given the tone of the group over the past 6 months or so...

I did not vote as my experience with R15 pretty much turned me off against the DVR+ line. 

I plan to move to FIOS when a) my contract ends and b) i actually have a chance to try the DVR.

But a MPEG4 DTIVO could have me change my mind..especially if DTV allowed it to be fully functional.


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## guins (Sep 12, 2007)

OMG YES YES YES!!!! I hate my HR-20. 

If not for the pixelation, it would be serviceable box. But there are too many other things that irk me about it too. Especially no DLBS!!!! TiVo would do it MUCH MUCH MUCH better!!!!


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## doctor j (Jun 14, 2006)

I would love to have an MPEG 4 capable D*TIVO.
I really have almost gotten familiar with my H-20's and love the weekly software updates but the dual live buffers is something I really really miss.
I would still use and compare the HR-20 with an MPEG 4 (& upgraded speedwise) HR-10.

Doctor j


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## missingtivo (Dec 19, 2006)

But, being a DVR isn't one of them.

If it could record programs reliably (including fixing CIR and Search),
sync the Audio and Video together reliably (although its improving),
improve the way slow-motion is done,
and fix the pixelation issues during frame by frame,
then this would be a pretty nice box.


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## Sirshagg (Dec 30, 2006)

missingtivo said:


> But, being a DVR isn't one of them.
> 
> If it could record programs reliably (including fixing CIR and Search),
> sync the Audio and Video together reliably (although its improving),
> ...


!rolling :crying:


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## hookemfins (Jul 3, 2007)

YES, I'd go to an mpeg 4 tivo unit in a heartbeat for the hr 20. 

Ease of use.
Can get around the guide faster.
DLB-plus I can change among 3 channels (although lose dlb for two of them)
More stability

The HR 20 is getting better though. IF it had DLB the choice would be tougher.


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## belunos (Oct 6, 2007)

I voted yea, though I'm probably not very qualified. I've only had the unit for 2-3 weeks, but I've had a tivo for years. I'm no fanatic, and there are some things about the HR20 that I've very quickly fallen in love with and would hate to part with, but I still prefer the UI of the Tivo


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## ajwillys (Jun 14, 2006)

I voted yes for tivo because I used to LOVE to hack it. I never had a DTiVo so I don't really no how that worked but I used to love galleon and streaming movies back and forth between my computer and TiVo's.


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## raw6464 (Dec 11, 2006)

The TIVO hands down. Much more reliable and easier to use. 

Agree the HR20 has made a lot or progress but it's still loaded with bugs. I have 3other TIVO platform D* DVRs and have not had a problem with any of them in over 2 years.


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## sfmilstead (Sep 8, 2006)

I voted that I would trade my HR20 for Tivo. I look at it this way:

Plusses for the HR20:
Blue Button MiniGuide
Faster Season Pass/Series Link setups
Interactive Features
Faster Guide

Plusses for Tivo:
DLB
Better Full Screen Guide (IMHO, of course)
More Intuitive FF/REW controls (including skips, but also normal FF/REW)
More Intuitive Remote

Of those, I really miss the DLB and the FF/REW controls of Tivo. I like the Blue Button Guide, and enjoy the interactive features for Fantasy Football, but not nearly as much as the Tivo features I miss.

A perfect DVR would be either an HR20 w/ DLB and better FF/REW controls OR a Tivo with the Blue Button MiniGuide (but wouldn't need interactive).


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## mobouser (May 23, 2007)

Tivo much better software package. Is there a hack yet for hr10-250 TO GET MPEG 4???


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

mobouser said:


> Tivo much better software package. Is there a hack yet for hr10-250 TO GET MPEG 4???


Would require MAJOR hardware surgery. Can't be done in software.


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## Michael D'Angelo (Oct 21, 2006)

As Tom said it would need major hardware upgrades plus it would need a software upgrade to be able to see the SAT's at 99 and 103.


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## AlbertZeroK (Jan 28, 2006)

mobouser said:


> Tivo much better software package. Is there a hack yet for hr10-250 TO GET MPEG 4???


The complete answer is no, the MPEG2 stream is decoded via hardware not software. Since that hardware won't support MPEG4 decoding and the CPU is not fast enough to decode MPEG4 at HD resolutions, there is no possible way for the HR10-250 to decode MPEG4.


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## mobouser (May 23, 2007)

No way to upgrade CPU and add pci device.


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## AlbertZeroK (Jan 28, 2006)

mobouser said:


> No way to upgrade CPU and add pci device.


No. There are no PCI slots and the CPU is surface mounted on the board, it would take a pro with special equipment to replace the CPU. THan you would have to re-write the software (and not just a couple pieces).


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## mobouser (May 23, 2007)

That puppy is dead. Thanks Albert


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## Littledude (Aug 28, 2006)

I voted yes, but they are only getting one of the HR20s. Get the best of both worlds.


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## SlimyPizza (Oct 14, 2006)

I voted Tivo hands down. The HR20 is, as everyone says, "getting better", but we've been paying real dollars all along. The HR20 interface and capabilities wouldn't strike me as bad if something better (Tivo) didn't exist and so I didn't know better. The HR20 PIG is its only real winner IMO. Not having DLBs is just plain remiss. Reliability, poorly designed remote, and less THAN stellar UI allow the HR20 to be adequate but not a leader in its class.


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## Que (Apr 15, 2006)

No, I would not trade my HR20 for a TiVo 364 46.02%
Yes, I would trade my HR20 for a TiVo 427 53.98%
Voters: 791

Still very close.


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## Bizarroterl (Oct 20, 2006)

Would I trade my HR20 for a Tivo? Just give me the chance!


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## NFLnut (Sep 29, 2006)

If the HR20 actually WORKED, then it would be the superior DVR. Unfortunately, after more than a year "on the market" the HR20 is still buggy, glitchy and STILL cannot be trusted as a DVR like my good old TiVos! This is why I still pay D* every month for three otherTiVos (one would do however). The HR20 has missed so many recordings over the last year that my good old TiVo has never failed! After almost 8 years as a TiVo owner, I still MUCH prefer it because it works!

However, on PAPER, the HR20 SHOULD be the better DVR. The problem is, it just doesn't work! If TiVo updated their antiquated (yet functional) interface: like not having to exit a recording or live TV to schedule a recording or see the Now Playing list, DoD, etc, then it would win in a LANDSLIDE!

Oh .. and DLB's is a BIG plus over the HR20, with or without DoD (which I have been pretty underwhelmed with so far anyway).


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## waporvare (Sep 18, 2007)

DLB would go a long way towards not making me miss my tivo so much. Of course I have both units in my living room so I'm not REALLY missing it.


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## RCY (Nov 17, 2005)

Didn't vote in the poll, since I don't have an HR20. But I currently have 2 SD DTivos, and am using a PC with BeyondTV to record HD to play on my LCD HDTV.

IF D* came out with a TIVO-based HD option, I'd seriously consider upgrading my 2 SD boxes to HD. FWIW.


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## mikewolf13 (Jan 31, 2006)

I'd be interested if we could split the results by who particiaptes in CE or not..

I suspect the CE people are more likely to keep the HR20 than those not in the CE.

Which either speaks to the effectiveness of the CEs or whether their opinions are impacted by being a participant.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

mikewolf13 said:


> I'd be interested if we could split the results by who particiaptes in CE or not..
> 
> I suspect the CE people are more likely to keep the HR20 than those not in the CE.
> 
> Which either speaks to the effectiveness of the CEs or whether their opinions are impacted by being a participant.


Why would it have an impact?

Just because people are voting, because they have early access to the eventual national release versions of the software?

Should we also split it out to those that have participated in the TiVo Beta trials (As I know some of the voters have) ?

Should we also split out those that HACK their TiVo to do more?
ect...


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Why would it have an impact?
> 
> Just because people are voting, because they have early access to the eventual national release versions of the software?
> 
> ...


Actually those would all be great breakouts. Are you volunteering?


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

NFLnut said:


> If the HR20 actually WORKED, then it would be the superior DVR. Unfortunately, after more than a year "on the market" the HR20 is still buggy, glitchy and STILL cannot be trusted as a DVR like my good old TiVos!


As an owner of the older Tivobox, as well as 2 HR20-700's now for over a year, I respectfully, but totally, disagree and feel exactly the opposite.

I gladly retired the Tivobox after years of painful instability.

The HR20's have performed solid for quite some time.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Tom Robertson said:


> Actually those would all be great breakouts. Are you volunteering?


No... and not because I don't think they are valid.

As until someone sits down, and thinks of all the main combinations, and could design a more accurate "survey"... there are still going to be fundimental flaws in all of those polls.

There are just so many variables that can go into it....
And now throw in the HR21 without OTA.... and that also adds to the mix.

You also throw in all the "well why wouldn't it be a T3 feature set" variables, ect....

To me... and the two threads...
It was all the comments on WHY people voted the way they did... which is the most valid data that comes out of them.

Not the raw semi-anonymous poll votes.


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## mikewolf13 (Jan 31, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Not the raw semi-anonymous poll votes.


This poll listed who voted how.

Do I thnk it's important? no. DO I think it's interesting? yes.

it's why scientists do double-blind studies.

There is no doubt in my mind that those particpating in CE will favor the HR20 more than those not participating.

The breakouts you reference would also matter it we wanted to be real scientific..obviously we can't be too exact here, but If it iis possible, and I suspect you (or someone) has alist of particpants, in additon to the list of who voted which way and could do this in 10 seconds.

Not entirely scientific so if there is little difference in the numbers than so be it. But if the numbers are 80-20 for one group and 20-80 for the other then it's certainly points to bias of some kind.


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## JerseyBoy (Sep 1, 2006)

The TiVo hr10-250 had a horrible user interface. The HR20 is a huge improvement. I went from ReplayTV to the hr10-250 to get HD and I cursed the hr10 out everytime I used it because of the UI. I would trade my hr20 for a HD ReplayTV that works with directv. I still have the hr10. The hr10 and hr20 are connected to the same TV and I only use the HR10 when I want to record more that 2 things at once. Not only because I get more HD channels on the HR20 but because I like the UI and remote on the HR20 orders of magnitudes better.

PS: ReplayTV has had multi room viewing for several years maybe D* should buy the technology from them since they don't seem to be able to get it done themselves :lol:


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## Aztec Pilot (Oct 11, 2007)

I sure hated to give up my HR 10. Actually I didn't I just put it on a SD tv. I really expectd my new HR20's to be as unreliable as my R15. Not the case. I am really liking the HR20. DLB is the only thing I miss.

Also, I suspect that a TIVO box would have a different remote. I really like having the same remorte for every set because my fingers are trained. I do not have time to look at the remote 

I suspect I will keep my HR 20's and maybe get another one


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## Steveknj (Nov 14, 2006)

I voted for the Tivo. WHile the HR20 HAS improved, and has some neat (but unnesseary) features like networking and OnDemand (yeah, i do cutting edge upgrades), the Tivo just WORKED. I still have occassional issues with missed recordings, or recordings of reruns that were marked as new, which I never had with the Tivo. 30 second SKIP is better than 30 second slip, Wishlists actually WORK!! And of course DLBs, which are great this time of year when there are multiple games on.

The one thing I WOULD miss if I had to give up my HR20 is the mini guide, which I first had on a Hughes non DVR box and missed it when I gave that box up for my Sony Tivo box. But other than that, I cannot think of ANYTHING on the HR20 I'd really miss if i had to give it up for the more reliable TiVo


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## jrbundy (Feb 14, 2007)

I'd trade it in a heartbeat. I'd probably get a 2nd one too if I could, even without a 2nd HDTV.


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## islander66 (Oct 16, 2007)

I voted to trade mine for a new BMW. It's the same chance of getting a free Tivo with MPEG4 for my HR20.


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## stogie5150 (Feb 21, 2006)

I am in the process of cancelling D* right now, almost solely on the glaring weakness of D*'s DVR products. (the other is the cost, I have recently suffered a sudden decrease in available funds...:lol: ) I say in the process because I have been waiting for a month now on the recovery kits for my DVR's and D12. If a MPEG4 TIVO were suddenly become available I would reconsider D*, I would only have one instead of three, but a TIVO with all the functions that the old HR10-250 had would make me interested in D* again. 
Now that D* has released the HR21, and STILL havent addressed all the issues and features lacking in the HR20, and THEN finding out they deleted the OTA tuners, and STILL haven't addressed the lack of DLB, indicates to me that D* isn't interested in my money anymore.


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## tiger2005 (Sep 23, 2006)

stogie5150 said:


> I am in the process of cancelling D* right now, almost solely on the glaring weakness of D*'s DVR products. (the other is the cost, I have recently suffered a sudden decrease in available funds...:lol: ) I say in the process because I have been waiting for a month now on the recovery kits for my DVR's and D12. If a MPEG4 TIVO were suddenly become available I would reconsider D*, I would only have one instead of three, but a TIVO with all the functions that the old HR10-250 had would make me interested in D* again.
> Now that D* has released the HR21, and STILL havent addressed all the issues and features lacking in the HR20, and THEN finding out they deleted the OTA tuners, and STILL haven't addressed the lack of DLB, indicates to me that D* isn't interested in my money anymore.


Just be sure they are fully aware of your reasons for cancelling. If they know customers are cancelling because of the equipment, it might spur them to some sort of action.


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## primetime (Mar 23, 2007)

I'd keep my HR20. 
I had more issues with missed recordings and still do on my one running HR10, the HR20's haven't missed a beat in 9 months. I still remember the audio problems on Fox OTA when the HR10 upgraded software. My HR20's did have the synch problem for a day or so when the new HD channels launched but have been fine since.

I love the ability to add the external hard drive on the HR20. I am not a computer pro and don't want to take apart my box or learn Linux to hack it like so many features on the Tivo required. This eSATA solution on the HR20 is my top feature. My wife is in grad school so a lot of shows build up before she can get a chance to sit down and watch TV.

HR20's speed is much better, I hate the 2 minute hang ups when reordering a pass list on the Tivo. Not to mention the easier set up of a season pass or series link right from guide.

I like being able to watch TV in the corner while setting up recordings, changing the menu, adding passes, etc.

The dedicated 30 second slip is a plus, I hated reprogramming the shortcut in everytime my HR10 reboots and I like zipping through the commercials and being able to go back if I see an ad I like or upcoming show. 

The space remaining meter saves me all the times I had to mentally calculate or estimate how much space is left on the hard drive as well not get yelled at for deleting stuff in the name of needing space.

I like the skip to tick on the HR20 better.

I hate the suggestions feature and thumbs up on the Tivo they are immediately turned off.

I like being able to skip ahead in 12 hour increments off the list guide on the HR20 especially when scrolling through the movie channels and their list of movies.

Caller ID on HR20 is a bonus.

I have kinda mastered the dual buffer problem but the Tivo method of just switching the tuners is better although I love 90 minutes. vs. 30 minutes.

I still like the peanut remote better but I have learned all the buttons on the HR20's so I don't have to look at that one anymore either but the Tivo one was made for channel surfer.

Overall I would say the HR20 is as good or better than the HR10 on 10/12 features I care about including my two top choices, reliablity and expanded hard drive.


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## w3syt (Feb 17, 2006)

I now have 2 HR10-250's an HR20-700 and an HR20-100. All are good, but, I will take the new ones any day. And that new HR21 without OTA, that is a bad idea.


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## Splendor (Apr 17, 2007)

In a heartbeat! That's all I've ever wanted!


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## drh (Jan 11, 2008)

Sure would trade! I have been trying to get used to this hr20 for a month now and hate it. My hr10-250 with all it's faults was heads and shoulders above this piece of junk. No dlb is my main gripe but the functionality sucks too. The ui just plain sucks. I can search for the same actor or movie on both the hr10 and hr20 and the hr20 will miss tons of hits. Just a piece of junk. I am going to hook my hr10 back up and forget the mpg4 stuff. For what I watch, I would rather have the dlb and more intuitive tivo unit. I got 1 year free hd programming and dvr charges along with a free hr21, for letting them install a new mpg4 dish , I bought a hr20 so I could have off air hd. I'm still going to hook my hr10 back up and kiss the hr20 goodbye. I plan to keep my other directivo too. If we loose all mpg2 then I will have to re evaluate.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

What does DLB stand for???


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## fetzervalve (Dec 26, 2007)

richierich said:


> What does DLB stand for???


DLB = Dual Live Buffer - which I don't really miss...... But I do miss the rest of the Tivo interface. My 10 year old could do a better interface than this HR21 has, very lacking in visual appeal and very poor on use of screen space.

I really liked the Tivo guide, I also liked the fact that I could see when a recorded show was not a full recording - Tivo listed "partial" (and the length) in Now Playing, so you knew that snow had gotten on the dish and you didn't get the whole show when you started watching it, now I have to find out that the last 10 mins are missing when I get there!

Tivo gave me a lot of info that I took for granted then, and now I miss it. Everyone talks about how fast the HR2x's are, well, it's fast on a season pass but not on much else, the channel changing takes forever as do most button press responses.

I want my TIVO!!


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## Xaa (Nov 17, 2005)

If they came out with an MPEG4 TiVo, I would try it but it would have something to prove. I surely wouldn't want the HR10-250 to be MPEG4 compatible, I'd stay with the HR20 for sure.

I, unlike some, find the interface to be different, but very intuitive. Non-DVR friends and family pick up the HR20 interface much more quickly than they do the TiVo.

Speed, well I would assume a new TiVo would do something about those horribly long wait times for almost everything.

Right now, since overshoot was put in many months ago, TiVo would have to prove it to me again. As of today the hR20-700 is the best DVR I've ever owned and I've owned SA TiVo's, DirecTiVo's, the HR10-250 and ReplayTV.

This is a personal preference thing, so everyone should base it on his/her own experiences.


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

I used to have to set up all series links for my wife when we had the Tivo in the main room. She wanted one the other day for some new show on the HR20 and I said let me show you how. Hit Guide - find your show - hit the red R twice. 

She said "that's it???". I said yep, its one thing they made a vast improvement on.

With that said, the SL limits have to go, push and hold anything needs to go and DLB needs to be added.

No reason, IMO, that the HR20 should be a step backward in any feature.


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## Zepes (Dec 27, 2007)

HR needs some tweaks (like to do), but I don't miss the Tivo. I don't miss Tivo at all.


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## Que (Apr 15, 2006)

drh said:


> -snip-.


:welcome_s to the forum drh!

Your best bet is to tell DirecTV yourself. Not on a forum or even an email. Snail mail them! We have two letters to send out about DLB or just make something up yourself but, be sure and put your account number and name on it. DLB Letters


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## Milominderbinder2 (Oct 8, 2006)

drh said:


> ...No dlb is my main gripe...


Then you are going to like the new national release that is coming out!

They made some really important corrections that now give us an solid DLB workaround. You can flip back and forth with one click.

Here are some things you will like:
→ DLB Workaround
→ Enhanced Search
→ Remote Booking 
→ New Online Suggestions
→ 30 Second Skip enabled by doing a Keyword Search for 30SKIP
→ Adult Channel Blocking - removes them from Guide and search results 
→ Mediashare supports Video now in addition to photos and music 
→ Shortcut for Closed Caption On/Off 
→ Prioritizer works even when no upcoming episodes are scheduled 
→ Guide: Channel Color shadding to represent subscribed vs unsubscribed channels

The down side it that you have to give them your To Do button to get it. Seriously. It's true. No one could make stuff like that up.

You will see that there was plenty of room to keep To Do on the new menu.

Take these polls if you haven't already.

How Do You Use The To Do Button?

How Often Do You Use Your To Do Button?

- Craig


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