# Movie Timers Disappearing



## dbrakob (Apr 26, 2006)

I posted about this several weeks ago with no luck on a fix as well as talking with Dish CSRs several times and getting a new 722. My scenario is this. If I schedule a timer on any SD movie channel (HBO, Showtime, etc) it shows up in the timers and schedule and all looks good. After about 12 hours (waking up the next morning or getting back from work) the show falls off the schedule but the timer remains. There is nothing in the schedule/history saying it is skipped, conflict, whatever. The show basically falls off the schedule but remains on the timer. If I go into timers and choose EDIT then DONE (without actually changing anything) it shows back up on the schedule but disappears again after 12-14 hours. This only happens with SD movie channels. Everything works fine with HD movie channnels, HD regular channels and SD regular channels. Anybody else experiencing anything like this or have ideas on what is happening? Dish CSRs tried their best but to no avail. I ended up just living with the problem and only scheduling shows (SD movies) for middle of the night before I go tto bed and during the day before I head to work.


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## jsk (Dec 27, 2006)

Do you allow the DVR to do updates? I was having the same problem and found out that my wife was skipping the updates when they came up. I rescheduled the updates so they don't happen when she is up and all was well.


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## dbrakob (Apr 26, 2006)

I do have updates activated and have tried it at different times of the day but that did not solve the problem.


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## Rick_R (Sep 1, 2004)

I have a problem with timers being deleted but it is different. I will set a timer to record the football game when the guide says ABC college football teams TBD. I wll do this because I know that the game is the one I want. Then the programming information changes to ABC college football USC versus Arizona. When this occurs the timer is deleted.

It is apparent that when they change the programming information they delete the old program and add the new, thus deleting my timer. Kind of sucks.

Rick R


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## Ernie7410 (Apr 28, 2008)

I did not see any clear resolution to the post about movie timers being deleted. I have had this nagging problem since I got two "new" VIP722 receivers 2 months ago. They were deleting PPV movie timers and HDNet (channel 9422) timers. The deletion would occur over night or when the receiver was off for a few hours. After many many calls, DISH sent 1 replacement receiver. Turned out to be a refurbished one. The replacement stopped deleting the HDNet timers, but same problem with PPV movies.

Again, many many many calls to advanced tech support. I finally told them to pick up both receivers and cancel my contract. Then I got someone from advanced technical support who sent me two replacement receivers. Both refurbished.

Now, one seems to be working fine. The other still deletes PPV movie timers.

[I have changed remote addresses to higher numbers. I have rebooted several times. I have not come close to timer number limit.]

I'm getting ready to start the calls again tomorrow.

Theory - Early (old) chip sets in some units defective? Since they keep sending me old units, it's a crap shoot as to whether that will solve my problem.

Anyone else experiencing this? Any solutions?

Thanks,
Ernie


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## rcpilotjae (Jan 10, 2007)

I some times think these DVR's have a mind of their own. Anyway, after 4 replacement units I finally got one that works rather well. But I have noticed it will erase programmed local channels. I record some shows for the wife (while she's working) and have found I need to program these shows on the same day as the show other wise it'll erase. Yes, the timer is still there, but the actual recording of the show is erased. I found this out when I programmed the same show every day for five days. The next day the wife asked where the programs where. I quickly found out the DVR was deleting the programming. Any ways, this does not happen on any other channel or situation. Only on the local channels. Everything else that is programmed for future recording works fine.

Don't know what the problem is, but more or less to let you know you're not alone.

Since everything else works flawlessly and it took me 4 replacement units to get one that works this well, I can live with this one small bug. Maybe it is something in the updated software and hopefully it will be corrected in the future.


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## dbrakob (Apr 26, 2006)

I knew I would get others to "share" my pain eventually. Dish insisted last October that it was the FIRST time they had ever heard of this happening (that was from the Advanced Tech guys no less). I tried 3 different 722s but always had the same problem. As 90% of the channels we watch are ok we chose to live with this defect instead of spending time trying different 722s which is a pain when you are recording series shows that you do not want to lose.

Seems to be no rhyme or reason to my problems. I have HBO and Cinemax. HBO HD and Cinemax HD both are fine but the rest of the HBO and Cinemax channels lose their "event" (but not the timer) after about 12 hours. The really strange thing is that there is ONE HBO SD channel, HBO Family, that works fine so it does not even seem to be an HD/SD thing.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

dbrakob said:


> Seems to be no rhyme or reason to my problems. I have HBO and Cinemax. HBO HD and Cinemax HD both are fine but the rest of the HBO and Cinemax channels lose their "event" (but not the timer) after about 12 hours. The really strange thing is that there is ONE HBO SD channel, HBO Family, that works fine so it does not even seem to be an HD/SD thing.


Hmmm... Are you seeing this on the HBO west versions or could this possible be a side effect of Channel mapping. Do you have a specific test case I can try?


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## Ernie7410 (Apr 28, 2008)

Thanks for the replies. Very interesting. Each time I have talked with Dish tech support and asked, they have told me they are not aware of this problem (deleted timers) in any generic sense. Also, that generally, the 722 receiver is trouble free. Now I learn that another person had to go through 4 receivers to get a good one.

And today I took both my replaced 722s to UPS to return to Dish. Well the UPS clerk said she had shipped loads of Dish receivers back from our Lynchburg, VA area, including several this same morning !

This leads me to believe there are major problems with the 722, or at least with a variety of Dish receivers. Dish people seem to be stonewalling us when we ask about generic problems and solutions. If you push hard and long enough they agree to send you a refurbished unit. But it probably is still defective. 

What gives? Is this a concerted strategy to avoid publicity on a major problem?


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## TulsaOK (Feb 24, 2004)

Ernie7410 said:


> Well the UPS clerk said she had shipped loads of Dish receivers back from our Lynchburg, VA area, including several this same morning !


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Ernie..... I can say with confidence that there is not a concentrated strategy.. Dish is way to big of a company to pull something like that off.

Having said that... Based on your original description it sounds to me like you might have run into a software defect. What I am trying now to do is try and get a independent confirmation. First step to fixing a defect is being able to reproduce it. 

So if you have a test case... I believe it would go a long way to root causing the issue.


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## Ernie7410 (Apr 28, 2008)

Ron Barry said:


> Ernie..... I can say with confidence that there is not a concentrated strategy.. Dish is way to big of a company to pull something like that off.
> 
> Having said that... Based on your original description it sounds to me like you might have run into a software defect. What I am trying now to do is try and get a independent confirmation. First step to fixing a defect is being able to reproduce it.
> 
> So if you have a test case... I believe it would go a long way to root causing the issue.


Ron - Be happy to help. As I said earlier, one of my 722s is now working perfectly. The other consisently deletes PPV movie timers. All I have to do is set the timer ... it's then there in the "schedule" list and in the guide ... then turn off the receiver for just a few hours or overnight ... then turn it on. The timer will have been "deleted by use #1". Currently I have authorized a movie on channel 537 for May 1st. It consistently disappears from the schedule and guide as I just described.

Let me know what kind of test can be run that would be helpful. -- Ernie


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## ChuckA (Feb 7, 2006)

On your 722 that is "working perfectly" does this mean you can set a timer for a future day PPV and have it work correctly? 

On your other 722, are the missing timers always for future date PPV? I have never used a PPV timer for a future date. If I want to record a PPV movie I have always done it on the day I do the PPV authorization. I have set up a test for a future date PPV, so we will see what happens. When the timer gets deleted, are you charged for the PPV on your bill?


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Thanks Ernie... Since we have seen a lot of reports on this and not a lot of posting regarding it I think we need to try and dig further to see if we can repeat it. 

As for a test... I was hoping I could test a use case that you know causes the timer to drop on your box. Is there any timer events outside of PPV where you are seeing this consistently. From reading your posts I got the impression this is happening with HBO also.

It also appears that you have two 722s. Is this happening on both of them? The more details you can dig up surrounding this issue and if a repeatable test case can be found it is much easier to fix.


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## Ernie7410 (Apr 28, 2008)

Ron:

I'll list the relevant details per your question:

Comparison of my two 722 receivers side by side

A. 2/28/08 to ~ 3/17/2008 -- Two new VIP722 receivers (#1 & #2) installed on February 28th (upstairs & downstairs):

I discovered the timer problem on the upstairs receiver (#1). I spent a lot of time trying to isolate and understand the problem, along with many calls to Dish. I did not pay much attention to the downstairs receiver.

The upstairs receiver lost (deleted) all timers for all PPV movies and all timers for all HDNet (channel 9422) events. I am not aware of other channels for which timers were deleted. I did set numerous timers for other channels and, to my knowledge, they all worked OK. It was someone else in this thread that mentioned HBO. Also, someone else mentioned local channel timers lost. I never tried to record local programs and I don't get HBO. 

After many calls to Dish, one of the advanced tech support people sent me a replacement (refurbished) 722 (#3).
B. ~3/17/2008 to 4/22/2008 -- Original new 722 (#2, downstairs) and Refurbished 722 (#3, upstairs)

By this time I had discovered that the original 722 downstairs (#2) behaved exactly the same as the original 722 upstairs (#1) that had now been replaced. However, the refurbished 722 (#3, upstairs) behaved differently. It still deleted all PPV movies, but did not delete the HDNet timers.

{I should note that by this time I had verified the same up-to-date SW on both receivers. Also, I had gone through mutiple troubleshooting sessions with Dish technicians, as well as on my own. Many resets, test switch, etc. Everything OK.}

More calls and finally Dish sent two replacement receivers, both refurbished units. I did the replacement on April 24th.

C. 4/22/2008 to Present -- Replacement #4 upstairs and #5 downstairs
#5 downstairs appears to be operating without any problems. Finally a good one !! However, #4 upstairs is doing the same as #3 did. It deletes all PPV movie timers, but does not delete HDNet timers.

SPECIFIC DELETION BEHAVIOR
Unfortunately, you have to buy a movie to test this receiver. Several days ago, I ordered "Into the Wild", Channel 537 (HD), scheduled to record at 5am on May 1st. I authorized it and then set timers on both my receivers for the same time slot. Receiver #5 downstairs has retained the timer. Receiver #4 upstairs promptly deleted the timer within the first 24 hours of ordering the movie. I can go back to the daily guide and re-select this movie to record, and another timer will be set ... and eventually be deleted. The timer is still in the timers list, but the schedule shows that it has been deleted by User #1. In fact, the schedule shows multiple deletions, one for each time I reset the timer. Also, if I edit the original timer, it reappears on the schedule. But eventually deletes again.

Channel 537 is HD. But same behavior for PPV movies not HD.

Well, that's probably enough for now. I look forward to your analysis / response.

Ernie


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## dbrakob (Apr 26, 2006)

Ron Barry said:


> As for a test... I was hoping I could test a use case that you know causes the timer to drop on your box. Is there any timer events outside of PPV where you are seeing this consistently. From reading your posts I got the impression this is happening with HBO also.
> QUOTE]
> 
> Ron,
> ...


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## Ernie7410 (Apr 28, 2008)

Ron Barry said:


> Thanks Ernie... Since we have seen a lot of reports on this and not a lot of posting regarding it I think we need to try and dig further to see if we can repeat it.
> 
> As for a test... I was hoping I could test a use case that you know causes the timer to drop on your box. Is there any timer events outside of PPV where you are seeing this consistently.]
> 
> ...


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Ernie... and dbrakob.. thanks for some excellent follow up details. Quick question.. 

Ernie... Are you running in dual mode also? 

dbrakob.. I will try setting these timers up on my receiver tonight...

Do you guys toggle between dual and single mode alot or are you a set once type of person?


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## Ernie7410 (Apr 28, 2008)

Ron Barry said:


> Ernie... Are you running in dual mode also?
> 
> dbrakob.. I will try setting these timers up on my receiver tonight...
> 
> Do you guys toggle between dual and single mode alot or are you a set once type of person?


Ron -- I usually operate in the dual mode. But early on I checked out dual vs single mode to see if it made any difference. It did not. No matter how the timers were set, they deleted by themselves. I also checked out almost every other user option that I could postulate as possibly having impact. This included locks set vs lock off, auto updates enabled vs disabled, etc.

Theory: Problem is with chipsets, not software. If it were the software, every receiver would have this problem. Chipsets are being bought from variety of vendors (probably from China). Control is poor. Some manufactures are making defective chipsets. The defective chipsets are probably concentrated in batches of receivers assembled in the same time frame or at certain factories.

Theory: My first two new receivers came from such a concentration.

Theory: Dish does not have a handle on this problem yet. Problem is elusive. Difficult to test and know which chipsets to replace. Therefore, refurbished receivers are not getting their bad chip sets replaced. So replacement receivers are likely to contain defective chipsets.

Not all defective chipsets are the same. For me, the problem comes in two varities : PPV & HDNet or just PPV. Of five 722 receivers, only one has worked correctly. That's an 80% defect rate. For refurbished receivers, only one in three has worked correctly. Thats a 67% defect rate. Statistically, that suggests I'll need to replace my remaining receiver three more times to get another good one.

Do you have any contacts within Dish engineering department? Can you find out what they know about this issue?

Ernie


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Interesting theory Ernie.. though it it was that widespread as you suggest I would expect more people running into it. At this point I personally am not convinced if this is a hardware or software issues. My gut given the facts at the moment is pointing towards software though I have not ruled hardware out. 

So how often to you switch between modes? I switch about 3 to 4 times a year and I do that rarely... 

Is there a particular PPV you saw this on? 
When you say timer deleting.. Are mean saying timer event? Timer is the scheduling piece where a timer event is one particular point in time.
What is your remote address, if it is 1 change it or remove your TV2 antenna for a while to see if the problem goes away. (Ruling out neighbor remote possibility)


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## Ernie7410 (Apr 28, 2008)

Ron Barry said:


> Interesting theory Ernie.. though it it was that widespread as you suggest I would expect more people running into it. At this point I personally am not convinced if this is a hardware or software issues. My gut given the facts at the moment is pointing towards software though I have not ruled hardware out.
> 
> So how often to you switch between modes? I switch about 3 to 4 times a year and I do that rarely... Not often. Except that I have switched modes to experiment with this problem several times on each receiver.
> 
> ...


Ron: Answers in red inside above quote window. -- Ernie


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Ernie7410 said:


> Ron: Answers in red inside above quote window. -- Ernie


Thanks Ernie for your response. I created a few timers tonight based on dbrakob post and also one PPV. I will try and create a more over the next few days and see if I can get my box to do it.


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## ChuckA (Feb 7, 2006)

Yesterday morning I set a timer on my 722 for a future date PPV recording and the timer is still in the schedule after 24 hours. The recording should kick off tomorrow morning so in another 24 hours I will report back if it actually worked.


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## dbrakob (Apr 26, 2006)

Followup to my timers. Set them as described last night. Woke up this morning and just as I expected. HBO Family timer was still in Timers and event was still in Schedule. HBO East timer was still in TImers but NO EVENT in the schedule. Nothing at all in the schedule about it being deleted, duplicate, etc. I have had my 722 in dual mode since day 1. Switched once for a day to see if that solved this problem. It did not so went back to dual.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

I set the same timers last night and have not had a chance to check them today. I will later tonight and report back.

How many timer events do you have currently? I might have asked this before.. Thought I did but I don't see it so figured it is worth asking again. Is it over 500? How many DishPass timers do you have also?


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Checked my timers and I still show both timers events in my DVR history to fire tomorrow.. My PPV in the future still appears to be going strong.


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## Ernie7410 (Apr 28, 2008)

Update fm Ernie @ 7am May 1st: 
PPV movie "Into The Wild", was scheduled to record at 5am EDT on both 722 receivers (#4 downstairs & #5 upstairs). #4 (first good receiver of the five receivers I have gone through) began the recording as scheduled, confirming that it really is working correctly. #5 again dropped the scheduled event. I had reset the timer last night and left the receiver on. This morning, the timer was still in the timers list, but the scheduled event had been dropped from the daily schedule and also from the program guide notations. What was a little different, however, was that there was that the event was not listed in the schedule with the notation that it was "deleted by User #1", which was the case for all the earlier deletions.

I have now reset a timer to begin recording at 7:30am (about now) and left the receiver on. Yes, I just confirmed that the recording has started.

I guess I should start calling Dish and begin the process of getting them to send another replacement. Another roll of the dice trying to come up with a 2nd good receiver.

Ernie


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## ChuckA (Feb 7, 2006)

To double confirm, the PPV timer I setup two days ago fired right on time this morning and completed successfully. So, future date PPV timers do work, normally.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

This one is definitely is unusual.. I will of course check tonight to see if my timers fired for the HBO shows and see how my PPV timer is doing but so far I am not able to reproduce the problem what is being reported. 

To try and find some commonality. I have a DPP44 and a Dish 500. I get 110, 119, 129 and 148.


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## ChuckA (Feb 7, 2006)

I assume Ernie's receivers are connected to the same switch and dish. Since he has one receiver working fine and one that deletes scheduled events, I don't expect the problem would be with any equipment other than the receiver.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Good point Chuck.. I was trying to correlate what he has to what you and me have to determine if that might be a difference.


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## Ernie7410 (Apr 28, 2008)

ChuckA said:


> I assume Ernie's receivers are connected to the same switch and dish. Since he has one receiver working fine and one that deletes scheduled events, I don't expect the problem would be with any equipment other than the receiver.


I have only one dish antenna. It has 3 LMBs. (One for each satellite, I had assumed.) But what about the switch? I had assumed that the switches were located in the receiver. Is there a switch up at the antenna? Or anywhere else in the system? Could this have anything to do with a faulty installation? Or a faulty LMB? Note that everything else, to my knowledge, works fine.

Ernie


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## ChuckA (Feb 7, 2006)

The newer dishes have internal switches, or you can have an external switch when you have more receivers than coax feeds from the dish. But there is no switch in the receiver so both of your receivers are using the same external equipment.


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## Ernie7410 (Apr 28, 2008)

ChuckA said:


> The newer dishes have internal switches, or you can have an external switch when you have more receivers than coax feeds from the dish. But there is no switch in the receiver so both of your receivers are using the same external equipment.


Chuck - Thanks. So where on the dish antenna is the switch located? Is it outside and exposed to outside temperatures? And how is it powered? Do you know how the switch works? Just what does it do? Could it be defective and sending different signals to one receiver than to the other?


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## Ernie7410 (Apr 28, 2008)

Chuck, Ron:

Here's info on my system from Dish Tech Portal. From this info it suggests to me that it has no external switch. What is your take? Ron ... your take?

*Tech Portal Info on DISH 1000.2 System*

General Information
DISH 1000.2 allows customers to receive programming from three orbital locations; 110°, 119°, and 129° using a dish antenna size similar in size to DISH 500. DISH 1000.2 will display 1k.2 as the device and DPP 1000.2 as the LNBF when a Check Switch test has been run.

Dimensions:

1 5/8" mounting mast (Slightly longer then the DISH 1000) 
20.7"h x 25.9"w dish face

Standard Configuration:
DISH 1000.2 includes a DPP 1000.2 integrated LNBF - no switch needed for up to three receivers. 
DPP 1000.2 integrated LNBF; 110°, 119°, 129°

Connect the three output ports of the DP Plus 1000.2 LNBF to a DISH Pro Plus 44 switch for an additional receiver. When connected to a DPP44 switch using 3 cables, the LNBF provides signal from 110°, 119°, and 129°.

The LNB input port is disabled if the Integrated LNBF is connected to a DPP44 switch; the 4th orbital in this configuration would have to be connected via the switch..
NOTE: The DP34 and DP21 switches cannot be used in any installation with the DP Plus 1000.2 LNBF.

Valid Receiver combinations include:

Any DISH Pro or DISH Pro Plus Receiver 
Up to three DISH Pro Plus Receivers each with DISH Pro Plus Separators for the single-cable installation advantage. 
One Legacy Receiver with at least one DISH Pro or DISH Pro Plus Receiver

Receivers NOT compatible with DISH 1000.2: (no 129 support and no fourth orbital location support)
1000, 2000, 3000, 4000, 5000, JVC-IRR, DISHPlayer 7100/7200


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## ChuckA (Feb 7, 2006)

The switch is built inside. You can find information on dishes here, but I don't see any information on the internal switch. Here is some information on a switch 44.

I doubt a signal from the switch could cause a timer event to be deleted and no other problems.


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## Ernie7410 (Apr 28, 2008)

Chuck thanks. I don't have anything like that DP Plus 44 switch in my system. Just two wires coming out of the Dish Antenna LNB section and headed for each of my two 722 receivers. No other powered components anywhere in those lines. So I agree, problem with dropped timer events is most likely receiver related.


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## CABill (Mar 20, 2005)

ChuckA said:


> I doubt a signal from the switch could cause a timer event to be deleted and no other problems.


<speculation>
How about LACK of a signal from the switch? Or a scheduled event is due to use Tuner 2 (whichever TVx that is currently associated with) and the command sent via Tuner 1 through the separator doesn't "make it" so the DPP switched the 1650-2150 band for Tuner 2 to the desired Sat? If Tuner 2 isn't receiving the right Sat and Odd/Even tr, it is real hard to record the movie.

I don't have a ViP and OTA is different, but I'm pretty sure I get something close to the description if I schedule something for OTA 13.1 and when the appointed time arrives 13.1 isn't there. That happened when their tower went dark for several days. "Pretty sure" the 13.1 timers appeared as "going to happen" but nothing appeared in History when they didn't.
</speculation>

Mine were for New episodes, not a Once item, and I can see how a Once *might* disappear.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Just an update. Both my HBO timers fired correctly and my PPV still looks like it is on schedule...


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## Ernie7410 (Apr 28, 2008)

After convincing myself that it was not a switch problem, I called Dish and asked them to send another replacement receiver. Surprisingly, they quickly agreed. The set of notes they have accumulated on my account must by now be pretty convincing. In the past it took many calls and weeks of time to get to that decision.

I asked if they could make it a new one vs a refurbished one. They said they only send refurbished units, no exceptions.

So far, one of three refurbished units has been good. So we are playing the odds on this one. Wish me luck !

Ernie


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Well my PPV did fire as I expected it would... Hmmm I will try and Schedule some HDNet timers this week and see if anything comes up. 

Keeps us up to date on the replacement. I would be shocked if the problem goes away.. Definitely a strange one.


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## Ernie7410 (Apr 28, 2008)

Ron: I have another refurbished replacement 722. I'll install today and start setting timers to find out if it can handle both HDNet and PPV movie timers. Wish me luck.

But here's a question. I wrote down the SysInfo Screen data and compared my two 722s today (before changeout). While they both have the same basic SW version, there are differences.

Downstairs 722 (the good one):
Software Ver: L449RJ2B-N
Bootstrap: 1418RJ2B

Upstairs 722 (the defective one):
Software Ver: L449RJ2D-N
Bootstrap: 1418RJ2D

Note different versions marked in red color.

Any idea of the significance of the difference? Are they slightly different versions of the software? If so, maybe I am chasing my tail with different receivers. Why have none of the advanced techs mentioned this? Each time they simply say "Version 449 - Yes, your software is the latest version."

Thanks,
Ernie


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Good luck.. I am not exactly sure on the difference, but I believe it has to do with software responsible for loading the image. It appears from the versions you are showing is that your new one has a earlier version of the software that loads the image. 

Does this make a difference? hard to say.. Is it the same as the one that works? Might be a correlation point to keep track of.


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## dbrakob (Apr 26, 2006)

No idea what is going on but ALL my HBO channels are now working. Set a bunch of timers for this week on Sunday night. Went to "reactivate" the Monday timers yesterday morning and to my surprise they were still in the schedule. Did the same thing this morning and all the movies were still there. Hopefully this will continue. Is there some way I can check if they did an update to my receiver that may have "fixed" this problem? I know they had me on "record" as having this problem. Maybe enough people called in with similar problems that they were able to isolate the software/hardware/code responsible and patch. :hurah:


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

If there was a patch or fix.. it was done on the stream side of the equation... No software updates have happened from what I can see. If you have L449 dbrakob then no update has occurred. 

People having this issue... if it has indeed gone away, update in a week or so if you run into it again update this thread with as much info as possible. These type of Ghost type bugs are hard to track down and fix from my experience.


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## Ernie7410 (Apr 28, 2008)

Installed my 4th replacement (refurbished) 722 receiver today. Unfortunately, not good. After an easy installation and activation, I started setting timers. I chose a movie on PPV channel 531 (Kite Runner) starting May 9th at 5am eastern time. Authorization of the movie and setting of DVR timer went smooth. Also set a number of HDNet (ch 9422) timers, as PPV movies and HDNet timer event have been the ones that keep deleting on their own.

Turned the receiver off and came back ~ 30 minutes later. All timer events were there except the PPV movie. The same old message was there in the schedule, not for May 9th, but for today: "Deleted by user #1. 

I reset the timer for the movie several times and each time the deletion re-occurred after turning the receiver off.

But the story has more to it still ...

After a couple hours of otherwise normal operation (except for the timer issue), the receiver just died. Dead as a door nail. I tried resetting with the power button. No go. So I unplugged for a few minutes. Still no go. Once all lights flashed on and it said it was searching for a satellite signal, but it then went dead and stayed dead. 

Not overheated. Just dead.

Needless to say, I'm losing confidence in the 722 and in Dish in general.

Ernie


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## seattlemike (Feb 21, 2006)

Would this have anything to do with the missing timers?

Dish to begin DRM on PPV May 6th 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pay-Per-View (PPV) Services Subject to Digital Rights Management

DISH Network has been asked to comply with industry standards which require us to make some changes to our Pay-Per-View (PPV) services. These standards apply to ALL TV-service providers and are not unique to DISH Network.

These new standards will only affect some PPV movies that are recorded on or after May 6, 2008 by DISH Network subscribers. Any movies or events recorded by DISH Network customers before May 6, 2008 will not be affected.

How do these new standards affect PPV movie services effective May 6, 2008?

• Limited Recording – The amount of time PPV movies can be kept on a Digital Video Recorder (DVR) will be restricted.

24-hour window – Once customers begin to playback a recorded PPV movie from their DVR, they have 24 hours to pause and finish watching it, and may also watch it for an unlimited number of times within that period (if the entire 24-hour period is within the license window of the movie – please refer to the “License Window” section below for more information).

After the 24-hour window – After the 24-hour time period, customers will be able to see the title of the movie in the “My Recordings” section of their DishDVR, but will not be able to view it; they will also be prompted to delete the movie/event from their DVR. If the customer does not delete the movie, the title will remain in “My Recordings” but customers will not be able to view it.

• License Window – The license window is the length of time that a movie may air on PPV. License window time durations differ but average between 3 to 6 months. A movie with limited recording will not be available to view once the license window is over.

If the license window expires before DVR playback begins, the customer will not able to view the recording, and will be prompted to delete the movie.

• External Hard Drive – If a customer moves a movie to their external hard drive, DRM restrictions still apply.
__________________
Michael


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## AVJohnnie (Jul 27, 2004)

seattlemike said:


> Would this have anything to do with the missing timers?
> 
> Dish to begin DRM on PPV May 6th


Good morning Mr. Phelps&#8230; And if the PPV content is archived to DVD-R will those discs also self destruct?


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## seattlemike (Feb 21, 2006)

First PPV then premium movie channels and eventually network channels? It changes my outlook on making an purchase a external hard drive & hookup fee. Guess I'd better check my older PPV movies I have stored om the 622 hard drive and see if they are still playable, rather disapointing as I had planned on investing on a large external drive for starting a film library and getting away from the DVD Discs.

Michael


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## Ernie7410 (Apr 28, 2008)

seattlemike said:


> Would this have anything to do with the missing timers?
> 
> Dish to begin DRM on PPV May 6th
> 
> ...


My problem with timer events being automatically deleted BEFORE recording does not appear to have anything to do with DRM.

GOOD NEWS: My problem appears to now be solved. The last advanced tech support guy I talked to took the bull by the horns and scheduled a service tech to come to my house with 2 NEW (not remanufactured as were all 4 previous replacements) VIP722 receivers. He installed new replacements and the disappearing timer events problem was resolved.

So ...

1. ) The problem obviously was in the receivers, not the software.
2. ) Dish's collection of reman. 722 receivers contains an abundance of defective units.

If you are having this problem, you now know what the solution is ... get new, not remanufactured, replacement receivers.

Thanks to Ron Barry and all others that tried to help with this problem.

Ernie


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## Ernie7410 (Apr 28, 2008)

I refer you to the following thread for the gory history behind this problem:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=104450

After many attempts by Dish and others to solve the problem, the solution came with NEW replacement VIP722 receivers. My original 2 new receivers and 4 replacement receivers were all defective. But after 2 1/2 months and countless sessions on the phone with Dish, one of the Advanced Tech Support people sent a service rep to my house with 2 NEW receivers. Problem Solved !

If you are having schedule events mysteriously be deleted, you may want to read the full thread above and push for a new receiver.

Ernie


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## TulsaOK (Feb 24, 2004)

Ernie7410 said:


> I refer you to the following thread for the gory history behind this problem:
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=104450
> 
> ...


I'm glad that you finally got that solved! 
I find it really hard to accept that a problem like that can be caused by hardware. That makes no sense to me whatsoever. But, I guess the proof is in the pudding, as they say. Obviously, your new receivers don't have the same problems as the old ones. Another example of inconsistent hardware in production runs and lack of quality control (IMO).


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## TulsaOK (Feb 24, 2004)

Ernie7410 said:


> 1. ) The problem obviously was in the receivers, not the software.
> 2. ) Dish's collection of reman. 722 receivers contains an abundance of defective units.


It's been posted here that refurbished units are "spot checked" and sent back out for replacements. If you can insist on *new *replacements, I would definitely do so. There have been way too many people reporting less than acceptable performance when receiving refurbished units.


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## BNUMM (Dec 24, 2006)

Thanks for posting the resolution. I have not encountered this problem on any service calls. I would not have thought this would have been hardware related so I will try to remember this in case I happen to see it in the future.


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## Ernie7410 (Apr 28, 2008)

Ernie7410 said:


> I refer you to the following thread for the gory history behind this problem:
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=104450
> 
> ...


To All: I apologize for declaring victory too soon. I got the 2 new 722 receivers on Friday. The service tech and I set the same PPV movie timers on each of the receivers (I had previously authorized payment for the movies) and then turned the receivers off, waited 20 minutes, turned them on, and verified the scheduled recordings were still on the daily schedule list. Just before switching receivers that same test caused the events to be deleted. Then, for the acid test, we did a check switch, which forces a download and program guide update at the completion of the test. Previously this would also cause the timer events to be deleted from the schedule. Again no deletions. So we concluded that the problem had been solved.

On Saturday the events were still on the schedule of both receivers.

But today, Sunday, they were missing from the schedule on one of the receivers but still present on the other.

If I had any hair left I would be pulling it out now! What could be causing this problem? Why so erratic?

The one component that we have not changed out that could conceivably be the cause is the LNB / Switch, located on the dish antenna. When the technician was here on Friday, our plan had been to check out or replace the LNB / Switch arrangement if the receiver swap had proved ineffective. But since we thought the receiver swap had solved the problem, we did not bother with the LNB / Switch. Now I think that is where I need to take this problem solving quest.

See the following explanation of LNB / Switch function:

http://www.solidsignal.com/tech_faqs_04.asp

It talks about needing a powered switch if cable runs exceed 100 feet. I'd say that my cable runs from dish to receiver are approaching that distance. Maybe I should have a powered multi-switch? Or maybe my multi-switch is bad? Could improper or erratic switch operation cause my problem?

Unless someone with expert knowledge in this area is able to definitively answer these questions, I think I have to pursue a switch replacement, possibly with an external powered switch, with my Dish installer.

Again, sorry for indicating a solution prematurely.

Ernie

Update: After reading everything I could find about LNBs and Multi-Switches, I think I have gained a basic understanding of what they do and how they work. My conclusion is that the problem I am having is not likely the result of the LNB / Multi-Switch hardware. Reason: The function of the switch is to switch to the correct satellite and transponder for the channel selected by the receiver. This works just fine for both my receivers. So I don't think this hardware is likely the source of my problem.

What about Power? Clean power? Power surges or dips? I was reading in another thread about spurious rebooting of the receiver. A couple dish installers weighed in on the importance of having good clean power. They suggested using a UPS. I am going to try a UPS to see if it makes any difference. Also, I am going to disconnect my X-10 timer used to turn on and off outside lights as a further precaution in case the X-10 signal, which is a modulation of the normal home power supply voltage, is affecting the 722 receiver.


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## Ernie7410 (Apr 28, 2008)

Deleted


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## dbrakob (Apr 26, 2006)

Ron Barry said:


> If there was a patch or fix.. it was done on the stream side of the equation... No software updates have happened from what I can see. If you have L449 dbrakob then no update has occurred.
> 
> People having this issue... if it has indeed gone away, update in a week or so if you run into it again update this thread with as much info as possible. These type of Ghost type bugs are hard to track down and fix from my experience.


It's been a week now since the "phatom fix" for me and my movie timers are still doing fine. Have no idea what happened as it had been a problem for 8 months and then presto the problem was gone. Oh well, I am not complaining.


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## Ernie7410 (Apr 28, 2008)

This is an update for the benefit of anyone who may be experiencing this problem and for DISH reps who may be monitoring this forum.

See my previous posts for gory details of persistent problem of DVR timers that auto delete. Have gone through total of 4 new 722 receivers and 4 refurbished 722 receivers and only 1 (a new one) of these 8 receivers does not have this problem.

UPDATE:
Of the last 2 new receivers I received (recently brought to my home by local installer), the one marked Made In Mexico (Receiver #8 ) does NOT have the problem. [DNASP241 DshH01]

The one marked Made In India (Receiver #7) DOES HAVE the same problem as all the other receivers I have worked with since February, when I upgraded my two 508 DVR receivers to the 722's. [DNASP206 Dsh78A]

Notice the DNASP number differences (from the sysinfo screen). Only Receiver #8 has a DNASP number other than 206. The other 7 receivers, all WITH the deleting timer problem, had DNASP numbers of 206 ...

Could this be a software version tag that is an indicator for this problem?

Well, I tried to find out by going to the Dish Tech Portal online help site and got a live technician. After explaining my problem with 7 receivers, I asked about the DNASP number differences. He responded that this did indicate different software, but would have nothing to do with timers. I tried to get him to explain the SW differences but he refused to discuss further. He asked if I wanted him to send another receiver to replace the one that still was not functioning and I responded that it would just be a "crap shoot", since so far 7 of 8 were bad. Well, then he just disconnected me without so much as a goodby. (Great Customer Service Attidude !!)

For a while I thought the problem might have to do with my installation, my home power (clean or dirty?), etc. But now I am convinced it is really just in the receiver(s). With these last two recievers, I have swapped their locations in my house: Upstairs <=> Downstairs. Sure enough, Receiver #8 continues to be problem free and Receiver #7 continues to drop the timers.

So I have one good one and one bad one. I think I'll just live with that rather than put in any more time on the phone with Dish or with further trouble shooting on my own.

EOS (end of story)

Thanks to all who have tried to help. If anyone has further insight and wants to discuss, I'm willing to engage out of desire to help others or to help DISH get it right.

Ernie


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