# Pay for the receiver i dont own that i have to pay a monthly fee?



## dissturbbed (Jul 11, 2008)

Here is what i don't understand, directv wants me to pay up front for the receiver $ 199 and then they tell me i don't own it but i still have to pay a monthly fee for the receiver i just thought i bought that i don't own? And here is what i really don't get, If i decide after the contract of 24 months that i don't like the service for whatever reason and cancel i will NOT get back the money i paid for the receiver that i dont own. Can somebody please explain and clarify the situation so i can make a decision.


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## HarleyD (Aug 31, 2006)

Ever lease a car?

Nearly the same model. Lump sum down. Monthly payments. Return to leasing company at the end of the lease.

OUtright purchase price of an HD-DVR is in the $500 - $600 range...and you'll still pay a monthly fee unless it is your only receiver.


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## Scott Kocourek (Jun 13, 2009)

You leased the receiver rather than buying it, the price of the receiver is in the $500 range. You get it at a reduced rate, pay a monthly fee and they will take care of it if were to break.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

Don't forget, if you cancel after two years, $199 and a monthly fee, you also then have to return the DVR. 

If you don't like it, go to Dish.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

this upfront fee for leasing DVR/receiver never been procured - it's just "we will force you to pay it, regardless anything"
car's leasing didn't play here as analogy


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## Scott Kocourek (Jun 13, 2009)

If they gave all of the receivers away for free the monthly rate would likely be in the $18 -$20 month range and you still wouldn't own it.


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## say-what (Dec 14, 2006)

Sounds like you got it straight

All DirecTV receviers are considered leased

You pay $199 (thought it was 149) upfront lease fee on HR2x models

Whether owned or leased, you pay the same monthly fee for each receiver after the 1st (1st has no charge)

If you cancel your account early, you pay an early termination fee for the remainder of your 2 year term

Whenever you discontinue service, you must return the leased receiver to DirecTV, failure to do so results in about a $250 charge


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

"You pay $199 upfront lease fee" - new oxymoron ? 
the money never counted as lease fee nor as returned deposit


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## dissturbbed (Jul 11, 2008)

Scott Kocourek said:


> You leased the receiver rather than buying it, the price of the receiver is in the $500 range. You get it at a reduced rate, pay a monthly fee and they will take care of it if were to break.


 Ok that makes sense.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

And actually, on the primary receiver you don't pay that monthly fee, it's charged and credited back.


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## Combat Medic (Jul 27, 2007)

P Smith said:


> this upfront fee for leasing DVR/receiver never been procured - it's just "we will force you to pay it, regardless anything"
> car's leasing didn't play here as analogy


Force? Who is forcing you to be a DirecTV customer?


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## Rtm (Oct 18, 2011)

You don't pay $15,000 up front to lease a $30,000 dollar car....


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Combat Medic said:


> Force? Who is forcing you to be a DirecTV customer?


Dark Force !

If you'll talk seriously: DTV is doing that (don't munch my words).


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

Rtm said:


> You don't pay $15,000 up front to lease a $30,000 dollar car....


No, that would be stupid. I would use the $15,000 to make a down payment on BUYING the $30,000 car.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Rtm said:


> You don't pay $15,000 up front to lease a $30,000 dollar car....


DTV fun-boys will not get it.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

And how many Hoppers and Joeys can a new subscriber get for free? Like if you want two Hoppers, wouldn't you have to pay for some of the equipment and not own it?


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## RACJ2 (Aug 2, 2008)

P Smith said:


> DTV fun-boys will not get it.


Dish fan boys are the ones that don't get it. You can put $15,000 down on a leased car and then your monthly payment would be much lower on that vehicle. Basic math.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Rtm said:


> You don't pay $15,000 up front to lease a $30,000 dollar car....


You could if you wanted a lower monthly payment.


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## wahooq (Oct 19, 2011)

AS I've stated many many times. There is NO such thing as a lease equipment fee on a monthly basis. With DTV you pay equipment fees upfront. The monthly fees are for mirroring your main programming package from your primary receiver to your secondary ones.


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## peano (Feb 1, 2004)

You can buy a Dish ViP612 for about $200 and you *OWN* it.

This crap about receivers being worth $500 is just that. Any HR2X is not worth more than $200. And I would argue with their performance they are worth far less.


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## oldcrooner (Feb 23, 2004)

IMO, I've always thought it's just another devious way that Directv dreamed up to increase their revenues. It really doesn't make sense despite what the fanboys will tell you.


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## usnret (Jan 16, 2009)

Seems pretty straight forward to me: If you don't like it, don't go with DTV.


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## wahooq (Oct 19, 2011)

> This crap about receivers being worth $500 is just that. Any HR2X is not worth more than $200. And I would argue with their performance they are worth far less.


so dont buy one.....


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## Sunner73 (Feb 29, 2012)

say-what said:


> Whenever you discontinue service, you must return the leased receiver to DirecTV, failure to do so results in about a $250 charge


 So... if a person were to pay the appx $250 or whatever they would bill you, could you then use it as a part time receiver (if so desired)? Without the consequences of a normal "leased" unit thus becoming an "owned" unit while splitting the "total" cost of obtaining what would now be considered an "owned" receiver?

If so, then a new 2TB hard drive could be put into the unit thus giving yourself essentially a "new" upgraded HDVR.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

usnret said:


> Seems pretty straight forward to me: If you don't like it, don't go with DTV.


you probably repeat that many times so lost its meaning ...
If I need sport programming, I'm "forced" to pay the so-called "upfront lease fee". If you been born not yesterday you should knew, the practice started a few years ago, before that for decades(almost) the fee wasn't practical to impose - they will not see customers.


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## wahooq (Oct 19, 2011)

yep pay the non return fee and the receiver is yours


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

Rtm said:


> You don't pay $15,000 up front to lease a $30,000 dollar car....


you also don;t pay 30,000 for a 30,000 retail price leased vehicle, downpayment is based on a residual value calculation, so if the residual value of the leased 30K car is 58 percent the downpayment is based on the remaining 42 percent of the value of the car.


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## Scott Kocourek (Jun 13, 2009)

Remember when you lease a car if it breaks they don't send you another one for as long as your choose to keep it.


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## Inkosaurus (Jul 29, 2011)

peano said:


> You can buy a Dish ViP612 for about $200 and you *OWN* it.
> 
> This crap about receivers being worth $500 is just that. Any HR2X is not worth more than $200. And I would argue with their performance they are worth far less.


lol a vip612.. A really old receiver that only does one tv. Should cost less then 200$

Vip922 costed 600$ if you wanted to buy it from Dish, and up to a certain point costed 200$ with a 2 year contract which would be considered leased.

VIP722 family receivers at one point cost 300$ (could be 400$ my memory is foggy on this one).

Retail worth is up to the people who make the receivers not the consumer 
Trying to use Dish as an example is laughable at best.


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## usnret (Jan 16, 2009)

> you probably repeat that many times so lost its meaning ...
> If I need sport programming, I'm "forced" to pay the so-called "upfront lease fee". If you been born not yesterday you should knew, the practice started a few years ago, before that for decades(almost) the fee wasn't practical to impose - they will not see customers.


Huh??


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## peano (Feb 1, 2004)

Inkosaurus said:


> Trying to use Dish as an example is laughable at best.


Huh? Why? The DIRECTV folks think it is ok to pay $200 and not own a receiver. I don't.

I bought my 722 for $180 brand new. I bought a brand new 722k for $210.

I sold the 722k for $230. I prefer to own.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Inkosaurus said:


> lol a vip612.. A really old receiver that only does one tv. Should cost less then 200$


Until MRV came around, the Vip612 was actually more powerful, and certainly quicker, than all the HRs. 2 SAT tuners + 1 OTA tuner and fed one TV exactly like the HRs that can only record 2 events at any given time.

MRV is the sole thing that gives the current HRs any edge at all.


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

peano said:


> Huh? Why? The DIRECTV folks think it is ok to pay $200 and not own a receiver. I don't.
> 
> I bought my 722 for $180 brand new. I bought a brand new 722k for $210.
> 
> I sold the 722k for $230. I prefer to own.


So are you a customer of both companies or just Dish? If you are just a Dish customer, why are you constantly berating people in threads about Directv?


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

peano said:


> Huh? Why? The DIRECTV folks think it is ok to pay $200 and not own a receiver. I don't.
> 
> I bought my 722 for $180 brand new. I bought a brand new 722k for $210.
> 
> I sold the 722k for $230. I prefer to own.


And without shopping around, I can get an owned HR24 for $300. It's used but no big deal to me. I've seen them go for cheaper as well.


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## kosh56 (Sep 30, 2007)

HarleyD said:


> Ever lease a car?
> 
> Nearly the same model. Lump sum down. Monthly payments. Return to leasing company at the end of the lease.
> 
> OUtright purchase price of an HD-DVR is in the $500 - $600 range...and you'll still pay a monthly fee unless it is your only receiver.


Except that when I lease a car, I get a new one and it depreciates as soon as I drive it off the lot. D* has been recycling the same old receivers for years. I think they have more than covered the cost.


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## kosh56 (Sep 30, 2007)

peano said:


> This crap about receivers being worth $500 is just that. Any HR2X is not worth more than $200. And I would argue with their performance they are worth far less.


I think this is true. You see the same thing with carrier subsidized cell phones. There is simply no way a phone made in China is as expensive as they claim. Back in the day, sure. But, they aren't going to give up the lucrative model that they are used to.


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## carlsbad_bolt_fan (May 18, 2004)

peano said:


> Huh? Why? The DIRECTV folks think it is ok to pay $200 and not own a receiver. I don't.
> 
> I bought my 722 for $180 brand new. I bought a brand new 722k for $210.
> 
> I sold the 722k for $230. I prefer to own.


And my inlaws on their 5th Dish receiver in 4 years. They still had to pay another "fee" to replace them.


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## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

I have no problem with DirecTV offering me a "free" HD DVR and sending any model on hand.

I do think that if I have to pay an upfront charge for an HD DVR I should be able to choose the model and pay much less for an HR20 than an HR24.

Obviously they don't see things that way and seem to be quite successful.


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## dcandmc (Sep 24, 2008)

usnret said:


> Huh??


I think P Smith was drunk posting yesterday. At least I hope that's what it was.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

P Smith said:


> this upfront fee for leasing DVR/receiver never been procured - it's just "we will force you to pay it, regardless anything"
> car's leasing didn't play here as analogy


I think the Car Lease Analogy is Perfect as I thought to post about it and then read that someone else had thought the same thing.

No one Forces you do Lease a Car or Lease a DVR or Lease a Seat in a Football Stadium (which I do as a FUS Semonole) or to Lease an Apartment where you have to pay First Month and Last Month Lease plus a Security Deposit.

Same thing and if you don't like it go somewhere else.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

dcandmc said:


> I think P Smith was drunk posting yesterday. At least I hope that's what it was.


Mr P. Smith, have you been drinking again??? :lol:


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Eh, c'mon ... I'm sober and clean. 



And again the analogies doesn't play - you push me to a library if I want to go to a stadium. The dispute is made a few times and the arguments are too old. Create Something New and Real.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

P Smith said:


> Eh, c'mon ... I'm sober and clean.
> 
> The dispute is made a few times and the arguments are too old. Create Something New and Real.


If the Analogy Works Perfectly then why Create Something New???


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

> you push me to a library if I want to go to a stadium





Richierich said:


> If the Analogy Works Perfectly then why Create Something New???


You forgot to include a quote to which you replied ?


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## peano (Feb 1, 2004)

CCarncross said:


> So are you a customer of both companies or just Dish? If you are just a Dish customer, why are you constantly berating people in threads about Directv?


I have both. I am berating DIRECTV for the things I don't like.


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## Combat Medic (Jul 27, 2007)

billsharpe said:


> I have no problem with DirecTV offering me a "free" HD DVR and sending any model on hand.
> 
> I do think that if I have to pay an upfront charge for an HD DVR I should be able to choose the model and pay much less for an HR20 than an HR24.
> 
> Obviously they don't see things that way and seem to be quite successful.


This I agree with.


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## wahooq (Oct 19, 2011)

> I have both. I am berating DIRECTV for the things I don't like.


One thing I have never understood about these types of people.....If in my life I run across things I dont like i either leave them alone or dont use them. I certainly dont continue the service and then gripe constantly about it...seriously?


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## Rtm (Oct 18, 2011)

I was implying you don't put down 50% of the value of the car upfront and then pay a monthly lease fee they have come up with. You generally put down (25% or less) of the value of the car if you just do the basic lease they already have worked out. Where directv charges you ~around 50% of their "market value" which seems inflated to lease their "car".


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Rtm said:


> I was implying you don't put down 50% of the value of the car upfront and then pay a monthly lease fee they have come up with. You generally put down (25% or less) of the value of the car if you just do the basic lease they already have worked out. Where directv charges you ~around 50% of their "market value" which seems inflated to lease their "car".


It all depends upon the Business Model that the Company feels will make it Profitable!!!

And how much the car is worth after being used for 2 or 3 years but in the case of a DVR it is different.

And with a Leased Car you have to do their Maintenance Program where they charge you for Oil Changes, etc.

And if there are any Dings or Scratches when you return the car you will be Assessed Huge Charges to Fix those Problems.

Without Profit the Business Goes Bankrupt as a lot of Businesses have done as of Late!!!


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## wahooq (Oct 19, 2011)

And again...if you dont like the business model then do your business elsewhere...its very simple


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

wahooq said:


> And again...if you dont like the business model then do your business elsewhere...its very simple


EXACTLY!!! :hurah:


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## macfan601 (May 4, 2012)

wahooq said:


> One thing I have never understood about these types of people.....If in my life I run across things I dont like i either leave them alone or dont use them. I certainly dont continue the service and then gripe constantly about it...seriously?


Without griping there will never be change!!!! Think about the changes that have taken place in the U.S. over the last fifty years. Do you think any of them would have happened without griping, complaining, and demonstrating? People need to stop sitting on the sidelines and speak up for themselves. I constantly am phoning, writing letters, and sending emails stating my opinions. More people need to do so.


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## wahooq (Oct 19, 2011)

OCCUPY DIRECTV!!!!


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## macfan601 (May 4, 2012)

billsharpe said:


> I have no problem with DirecTV offering me a "free" HD DVR and sending any model on hand.
> 
> I do think that if I have to pay an upfront charge for an HD DVR I should be able to choose the model and pay much less for an HR20 than an HR24.
> 
> Obviously they don't see things that way and seem to be quite successful.


+1, I have gone round and round with them over this several times. I now buy 99% of my Directv boxes off of eBay. I can buy the model of my choice, know that it is new, and in most cases get it far cheaper then from the mother ship.


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## macfan601 (May 4, 2012)

wahooq said:


> OCCUPY DIRECTV!!!!


+1


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## richall01 (Sep 30, 2007)

I just paid $50.00 cash for a "pre-paided cellphone". 
NOW I have to pay for minutes to use the cellphone???


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## macfan601 (May 4, 2012)

richall01 said:


> I just paid $50.00 cash for a "pre-paided cellphone".
> NOW I have to pay for minutes to use the cellphone???


Yes, but you own the phone. I do that too. Plus, I got to pick the make and model.


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

richall01 said:


> I just paid $50.00 cash for a "pre-paided cellphone".
> NOW I have to pay for minutes to use the cellphone???


Could have gotten a pre-paided cell phone for free, people throw them out every day when they upgrade. Another point, they sell cell phones, and you own it. Even if you get a subsidized cell phone with a contract, after the 2 yrs, it it YOUR phone. You dont have to mail it back.

I can see subsidizing the fee by requiring a contract, or offering to sell it for the actual price without a contract. I dont agree with requiring a contract and then requiring you to mail back the unit after the contract is expired. Once you pay the fee, it should be yours if you fulfill the contract, just like cell phones.


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## macfan601 (May 4, 2012)

Davenlr said:


> Could have gotten a pre-paided cell phone for free, people throw them out every day when they upgrade. Another point, they sell cell phones, and you own it. Even if you get a subsidized cell phone with a contract, after the 2 yrs, it it YOUR phone. You dont have to mail it back.
> 
> I can see subsidizing the fee by requiring a contract, or offering to sell it for the actual price without a contract. I dont agree with requiring a contract and then requiring you to mail back the unit after the contract is expired. Once you pay the fee, it should be yours if you fulfill the contract, just like cell phones.


+1


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## RACJ2 (Aug 2, 2008)

Davenlr said:


> Could have gotten a pre-paided cell phone for free, people throw them out every day when they upgrade. Another point, they sell cell phones, and you own it. Even if you get a subsidized cell phone with a contract, after the 2 yrs, it it YOUR phone. You dont have to mail it back.
> 
> I can see subsidizing the fee by requiring a contract, or offering to sell it for the actual price without a contract. I dont agree with requiring a contract and then requiring you to mail back the unit after the contract is expired. Once you pay the fee, it should be yours if you fulfill the contract, just like cell phones.


There's a bit of a difference, the mobile phone after a contract is a brick, nobody wants it. The DVR is useable and something they can place in another account.


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## macfan601 (May 4, 2012)

RACJ2 said:


> There's a bit of a difference, the mobile phone after a contract is a brick, nobody wants it. The DVR is useable and something they can place in another account.


I guess you are OK with used/refurbished equipment? I buy very little being retired and on a fixed small pension. What I do buy though is top of the line. That is why I have gone to buying 99% of my Directv receivers online so I can be assured I am buying new, the model of my choice, and the make of my choice. I most always get a far better price online then from the mother ship. My media room has a new HR24 gotten from eBay, my home theater has a new HR34 gotten from the mother ship after a huge week long battle over price, and my kitchen has a new H24 gotten from eBay. I personally don't like the H25 because of the external power pack so won't buy it. I have had Directv for over 12 years and found this the best way to beat the system.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

macfan601 said:


> I guess you are OK with used/refurbished equipment? I buy very little being retired and on a fixed small pension. What I do buy though is top of the line. ...


What's your electronics setup?


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## kosh56 (Sep 30, 2007)

"wahooq" said:


> And again...if you dont like the business model then do your business elsewhere...its very simple


Yeah, just do what you're told and don't ask any questions. ::


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## RACJ2 (Aug 2, 2008)

macfan601 said:


> I guess you are OK with used/refurbished equipment? I buy very little being retired and on a fixed small pension. What I do buy though is top of the line. That is why I have gone to buying 99% of my Directv receivers online so I can be assured I am buying new, the model of my choice, and the make of my choice. I most always get a far better price online then from the mother ship. My media room has a new HR24 gotten from eBay, my home theater has a new HR34 gotten from the mother ship after a huge week long battle over price, and my kitchen has a new H24 gotten from eBay. I personally don't like the H25 because of the external power pack so won't buy it. I have had Directv for over 12 years and found this the best way to beat the system.


No, I would have sent them packing if they bought me used equipment when I signed up. Actually, when the installer called me, I asked them for the latest HR22's and a SWiM LNB, even though it wasn't on the order. And that's what they came with. And I replaced 1 HR22 with a new HR34 for free recently by renewing a 2 yr commitment.

In my opinion, the used DVR's should be for replacement of like receiver only. Any new customer should get a new DVR. And anyone in the know, should ask for the latest receiver available as a replacement. Now, unfortunately DIRECTV's policy differs from my opinion.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

macfan601 said:


> I have had Directv for over 12 years and found this the best way to beat the system.


Not sure how this is beating "the system." Everything you described is allowed by DirecTV.


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## macfan601 (May 4, 2012)

RACJ2 said:


> No, I would have sent them packing if they bought me used equipment when I signed up. Actually, when the installer called me, I asked them for the latest HR22's and a SWiM LNB, even though it wasn't on the order. And that's what they came with. And I replaced 1 HR22 with a new HR34 for free recently by renewing a 2 yr commitment.
> 
> In my opinion, the used DVR's should be for replacement of like receiver only. Any new customer should get a new DVR. And anyone in the know, should ask for the latest receiver available as a replacement. Now, unfortunately DIRECTV's policy differs from my opinion.


+1

And yes Directv does have a very unique and strange definition of "like" equipment.


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## macfan601 (May 4, 2012)

trh said:


> Not sure how this is beating "the system." Everything you described is allowed by DirecTV.


You must not have ever tried to get a specific, new receiver from Directv.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

"macfan601" said:


> You must not have ever tried to get a specific, new receiver from Directv.


Through the Access Card Department?


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## macfan601 (May 4, 2012)

dpeters11 said:


> Through the Access Card Department?


Through any department. I have battled with all of them over the 12+ years I have been with them. I am almost on a first name basis with all of them as they know me well from calling in so much. My biggest complaint is with the sub contractor who has the Directv contract for the entire state of Michigan. Some of his employes are top notch and really know their stuff. Others don't know which end of a screwdriver to use. Unfortunately, the sub contractor won't let me pick which employee he sends out. I just got the HR34. Directv insisted I had to have it installed by the sub contractor even though they didn't charge me to do so. Made no sense to me. I made it very plain to the guy who came out he was not to touch anything already installed as I had it all working perfectly.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

macfan601 said:


> You must not have ever tried to get a specific, new receiver from Directv.


Why would I? They don't sell specific DVRs. Their model is all DVRs are the same and if you want a specific model, you buy through one of their third-party vendors. Like you did.


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## macfan601 (May 4, 2012)

trh said:


> Why would I? They don't sell specific DVRs. Their model is all DVRs are the same and if you want a specific model, you buy through one of their third-party vendors. Like you did.


And you agree and support this? I do not agree with this and am going to keep battling them over it. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

PS: I finally did get the HR34 on my terms but it took me a week of battling them to do it. I know they were hoping I would give up and go away but I am persistent.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

We have been told from several sources that buying one outright through the Access Card department, they'll send an hr24 because so few are ordered that way. I havent tried this, my DVR (HMC) is guaranteed through the normal channels.


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## peano (Feb 1, 2004)

wahooq said:


> One thing I have never understood about these types of people.....If in my life I run across things I dont like i either leave them alone or dont use them. I certainly dont continue the service and then gripe constantly about it...seriously?


I gripe to point out the flaws and hope for change. Can I not complain about certain aspects of a service?

I keep Direct because it offers some things I like. Dish has its issues too and I gripe about them as well.


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## macfan601 (May 4, 2012)

dpeters11 said:


> We have been told from several sources that buying one outright through the Access Card department, they'll send an hr24 because so few are ordered that way. I havent tried this, my DVR (HMC) is guaranteed through the normal channels.


Being a 12+ year customer and getting some things I am not supposed to have I have been sworn to secrecy on a few things. But I will confirm you have been given some good information.

ummm, how can I say this without breaking my agreement. When I got my HR24 they wouldn't sell it to me for less then $199 and they were only $169 on eBay. I wanted it for free. The CSR in Retention told me to go buy it off of eBay and when I activated it she would give me a $169 one time credit. So in effect at the end I got it for free.


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## macfan601 (May 4, 2012)

peano said:


> I gripe to point out the flaws and hope for change. Can I not complain about certain aspects of a service?
> 
> I keep Direct because it offers some things I like. Dish has its issues too and I gripe about them as well.


+1


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

macfan601 said:


> Being a 12+ year customer and getting some things I am not supposed to have I have been sworn to secrecy on a few things. But I will confirm you have been given some good information.
> 
> ummm, how can I say this without breaking my agreement. When I got my HR24 they wouldn't sell it to me for less then $199 and they were only $169 on eBay. I wanted it for free. The CSR in Retention told me to go buy it off of eBay and when I activated it she would give me a $169 one time credit. So in effect at the end I got it for free.


I say this with respect since you're new - All your "secrets" and such are all pretty well known & posted around here.


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## macfan601 (May 4, 2012)

sigma1914 said:


> I say this with respect since you're new - All your "secrets" and such are all pretty well known & posted around here.


Fine, since everything is already well known I will just lurk and keep my information to myself for my own personal benefit. Some of you guys here are as smug as they are on the AVS forum.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

macfan601 said:


> Fine, since everything is already well known I will just lurk and keep my information to myself for my own personal benefit. Some of you guys here are as smug as they are on the AVS forum.


I was respectful and prefaced my comment that way. Saying you have secrets and special information seems a bit smug, IMO.


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## wahooq (Oct 19, 2011)

Access Card Dept wont get you anything cheaper than normal in fact we don't have anything to do with sales


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

As for me, I wasn't saying that you could get anything cheaper through the department, but that we've been told you can buy a box outright and that the latest model will be sent. I know you say there is no benefit to owning, we'll just agree to disagree in some situations


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## wahooq (Oct 19, 2011)

we can process your non return fees and flipped the rcvr to owned...thats it


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## wahooq (Oct 19, 2011)

no help on the model.....just like everyone else


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## HarleyD (Aug 31, 2006)

So say for the sake of argument your receiver is purchased and owned for $199 and you are guaranteed a brand new unit instead of whatever is on the shelf.

What happens if it breaks? With the leased units they replace it, even if you don't buy the protection plan. You just have to pay the shipping if you don't have the plan. If it is under some kind of warranty, a warranty replacement it normally only promised to be "like new" (e.g. a refurb). Or worse yet, you send it in for a warranty repair, pay for the shipping, and wait for it to come back, doing without in the meantime. This is pretty typical for owned electronics.

What good is the box to you if you decide to cancel D*? If your contract is up how much is a 2yr old box worth on ebay if a new one can be purchased from D* for $199? If your contract isn't up maybe you could sell it for enough to pay your termination fees, but not likely. 

Ultimately, it is up to the individual. To me, it's worth it to buy into the lease program. It may not be to you. And that's OK. Don't do it then. It's not a one-size-fits-all world and you have options.


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

"HarleyD" said:


> So say for the sake of argument your receiver is purchased and owned for $199 and you are guaranteed a brand new unit instead of whatever is on the shelf.
> 
> What happens if it breaks? With the leased units they replace it, even if you don't buy the protection plan. You just have to pay the shipping if you don't have the plan. If it is under some kind of warranty, a warranty replacement it normally only promised to be "like new" (e.g. a refurb). Or worse yet, you send it in for a warranty repair, pay for the shipping, and wait for it to come back, doing without in the meantime. This is pretty typical for owned electronics.
> 
> ...


There are a few advantages to having an owned receiver.

1. If you have a TV that is rarely used or is in a guest bedroom, you can activate/deactivate the receiver at will without the need to send it back to DirecTV and to have to pay another upfront lease fee when you want to activate a receiver in that room again.

2. You can sell the receiver if you so desire and recoup some of the cost that you might have paid for it to begin with. So, in your example, say you bought it for $199 and then sell it for $99, you've just recouped half your costs.

3. If you have the PP, if the receiver fails, you will get a free replacement (to include free shipping) that is still listed as owned for no cost. And if it fails, you don't need to send it in for repair. DirecTV will send out another receiver and then have you return the defective one.

All of my receivers are owned. I am only using two right now, but I might be adding a third TV. If I do that, I like the idea that I don't need to pay another upfront lease fee and could just activate one of the deactivated receivers.

- Merg


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## Birdieman30 (Aug 26, 2008)

HarleyD said:


> Ever lease a car?
> 
> Nearly the same model. Lump sum down. Monthly payments. Return to leasing company at the end of the lease.
> 
> OUtright purchase price of an HD-DVR is in the $500 - $600 range...and you'll still pay a monthly fee unless it is your only receiver.


Ah yes, the leased car analogy. I leased a car once. Went in to the dealer, picked out the exact model (new model, not refurbished) I wanted with the bells and whistles I wanted, paid $1.00 up front on a 5 year lease. At the end of the 5 years, I sold the car for more than the residual value, making a profit (excluding 5 years of lease payments). Don't think I can do that with my HR20-100.


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

wahooq said:


> we can process your non return fees and flipped the rcvr to owned...thats it


Say you currently have a leased receiver. Can you pay the difference in price between the lease and owned price, and get it changed to owned?


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

macfan601 said:


> +1
> 
> And yes Directv does have a very unique and strange definition of "like" equipment.


Why yes, yes they don't, they define "like" equipent that if the devices both record shows, allow you to schedule show, allow you to watch one show while recording another they ar3e "like" equipment, where exactly is the difference in the basic features - recording and watching only, seems like aresonable, accurate definition.


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

Birdieman30 said:


> Ah yes, the leased car analogy. I leased a car once. Went in to the dealer, picked out the exact model (new model, not refurbished) I wanted with the bells and whistles I wanted, paid $1.00 up front on a 5 year lease. At the end of the 5 years, I sold the car for more than the residual value, making a profit (excluding 5 years of lease payments). Don't think I can do that with my HR20-100.


interesting - so did you have a closed end, a open ended lease, or a residual buyout lease?


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

wingrider01 said:


> interesting - so did you have a closed end, a open ended lease, or a residual buyout lease?


Actually it's going far too away from the topic.:nono2:


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## wahooq (Oct 19, 2011)

> Say you currently have a leased receiver. Can you pay the difference in price between the lease and owned price, and get it changed to owned?


yessir


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

wahooq said:


> yessir


Interesting. What is the current Owned price on an HR34? i.e. How much extra would I need to cough up to own it?


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## wahooq (Oct 19, 2011)

there curerntly is no purchase option for a hr34


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

wahooq said:


> there curerntly is no purchase option for a hr34


Figures. That is the only box I dont own here.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Guess we have to try to buy Jerry_K's from him.


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## Birdieman30 (Aug 26, 2008)

P Smith said:


> Actually it's going far too away from the topic.:nono2:


I agree, but as I recall it was a closed end lease (25 years ago)


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## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

wingrider01 said:


> Why yes, yes they don't, they define "like" equipent that if the devices both record shows, allow you to schedule show, allow you to watch one show while recording another they ar3e "like" equipment, where exactly is the difference in the basic features - recording and watching only, seems like aresonable, accurate definition.


I wouldn't call DirecTV's interpretation of "like" equipment reasonable and accurate. The biggest difference to me, at least, is the 300 gb hard disk in the early DVR's vs. 500 gb in later models.

FiOS dumped a DVR with a 160 gb hard disk on me at initial installation, but it was easy enough to get it replaced with a larger hard disk model at no charge within a month.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

billsharpe said:


> I wouldn't call DirecTV's interpretation of "like" equipment reasonable and accurate. The biggest difference to me, at least, is the 300 gb hard disk in the early DVR's vs. 500 gb in later models.


I know I wouldn't be happy if my H25 were replaced with even an H24. I've heard in theory they try to swap out for like on that model, but I'm not convinced.


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

billsharpe said:


> I wouldn't call DirecTV's interpretation of "like" equipment reasonable and accurate. The biggest difference to me, at least, is the 300 gb hard disk in the early DVR's vs. 500 gb in later models.
> 
> FiOS dumped a DVR with a 160 gb hard disk on me at initial installation, but it was easy enough to get it replaced with a larger hard disk model at no charge within a month.


Everyone will have a difference of opinion on what "like equipment" is, basic level of "like equipment", most basic level of comparision - which is the one that counts

1. they all let you view HD tv programs over the Sat
2. they all allow you to on demand record
3. they all allow you to schedule recordings
4. they all allow you to plug in external drives to equilize the recording time

that is the basic "like equipment" comparision, all other features on the different models are freebies, all other factors are personal interpetation. Don;t really care what FIOS did, that was what they did for what ever unpublished reason but suspect that it was not in the goodnes of their heart that they did that.


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## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

wingrider01 said:


> Everyone will have a difference of opinion on what "like equipment" is, basic level of "like equipment", most basic level of comparision - which is the one that counts
> 
> 1. they all let you view HD tv programs over the Sat
> 2. they all allow you to on demand record
> ...


You have a point, but...

You have much less need for an external drive if you have a 500 gb internal drive instead of 300 gb.

You can't get 3D with an HR20.

You can't get OTA with anything other than an HR20.

The HR24, according to most threads on this board, is indeed faster responding to remote clicks than earlier models.

The later models also look better. Even my HR21 looked nicer than the HR20.

All I had to do to get my FiOS HD DVR upgraded was take the older model to a Verizon store and have it replaced. That was one of two standard methods Verizon has for upgrading and involved no cost. The other option was to have Verizon send me an upgraded unit at a shipping cost of $40.

It was the slow remote that got me looking at a switch to FiOS but it was the cost saving that really pushed me to switch. I'll admit that Verizon's customer service is not very good; fortunately my billing with them is finally straightened out.


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

You know there are several misconceptions in your thread there Bill, right?


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

"CCarncross" said:


> You know there are several misconceptions in your thread there Bill, right?


I thought his post was pretty accurate.

The HR20 can't do 3D, only the HR20 has built-in OTA, my HR24 is significantly faster than my R22, and with the HR24 having a 500GB drive I have no need for an external drive.

- Merg


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

But they can make sure you don't get an HR20 if you want 3D, or make sure you do get one if you need OTA.


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

You don't need an HR20 to get OTA, you just add an AM-21...so every H/HR model is capable of receiving OTA. If you need 3D, they will get you a non HR-20....really the only valid point is the HDD size, and I'd bet there arent many refurbs coming with 300ish GB drives anymore.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Yes, but I don't think I've heard of someone at DirecTV checking the OTA box in the system and a HR21-24 show up with an AM21.


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## dielray (Aug 5, 2009)

CCarncross said:


> ...really the only valid point is the HDD size, and I'd bet there arent many refurbs coming with 300ish GB drives anymore.


We still get plenty of HR20s and HR21/R22s. I don't go into BIST to check size on every job, but the ones I have have had 320 GB drives in them.


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

billsharpe said:


> You have a point, but...
> 
> You have much less need for an external drive if you have a 500 gb internal drive instead of 300 gb.
> 
> ...


By the numbers

"You have much less need for an external drive if you have a 500 gb internal drive instead of 300 gb"

Feature, not a base comparision

"You can't get 3D with an HR20."

Again, feature, joe sixpack could care less, not a base comparision item, if you required 3D you would have called Directv prior and already had it switched, when you make the service call you mention that the unit is attached to a 3D capable TV

"You can't get OTA with anything other than an HR20."

Yes you can, if you had something other then a HR20 and required OTA, you already had the device so it does ot matter which one they send you., if you require OTA and not have the addon device you mention it in the original service call and you get one - did it twice with my inlaws, the first time they sent a HR20, the second time they sent a different unit and a free OTA device.

"The later models also look better. Even my HR21 looked nicer than the HR20.
"

Not even going to speak to this, it is just grasping at straws.

"The HR24, according to most threads on this board, is indeed faster responding to remote clicks than earlier models."

Again, enhancement, not part of the like device equation.

Like devices equate out to lowest possible common denomintors, everything else is optional or enhancements


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

wingrider01 said:


> Like devices equate out to lowest possible common denomintors, everything else is optional or enhancements


The question or at least the argument is what is the lowest common denominator. Some people would speak to the fact that since the HR20 had an OTA tuner built-in, that would be a base feature. The argument can also be made that if you received an HR23 and had a 500GB HDD, receiving a HR21 with a 320GB is a downgrade.

That's a discussion that could go on and on. We do know the answer though, at least with how DirecTV views it: all HR2x receivers are functionally equivalent.

And just to throw a wrench in there... For those that had R22's and needed a replacement and received a R15/R16, would you really consider those to be functionally equivalent? DirecTV's view was that they were all SD-DVR's. While, I understand their point of view, I completely disagree with that assessment.

- Merg


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## dielray (Aug 5, 2009)

The Merg said:


> And just to throw a wrench in there... For those that had R22's and needed a replacement and received a R15/R16, would you really consider those to be functionally equivalent? DirecTV's view was that they were all SD-DVR's. While, I understand their point of view, I completely disagree with that assessment.


It would seem DirecTV agrees with you. Currently, the policy for techs is to replace a defective R22 on an account with at least one other HD receiver with an HD/DVR. Getting an HR24 is a little better than like for like.


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## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

CCarncross said:


> You know there are several misconceptions in your thread there Bill, right?


Really?

Which ones?

I know about the AM21 for getting OTA with the other receivers. And perhaps others prefer the look of the HR20 to later receivers or don't care.

The slow remote problem seems to have persisted long after I switched to FiOS last October, based on what I still read here.


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## RACJ2 (Aug 2, 2008)

wingrider01 said:


> By the numbers
> 
> "You have much less need for an external drive if you have a 500 gb internal drive instead of 300 gb"
> 
> ...


I'm sorry, but I can't agree with your interpretation of like equipment. Lets say you had a PC with a core i7 processor, 500 GB hard drive and 10 GB of memory. While under warranty, it had to be swapped. The replacement PC arrives and its a Core Duo, with a 250 GB hard drive and 4 GB of memory. It will still let you surf the internet, create spread sheets, play music and everything else the original PC did. So I guess you would just accept the replacement and never say anything?


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## Newshawk (Sep 3, 2004)

dielray said:


> It would seem DirecTV agrees with you. Currently, the policy for techs is to replace a defective R22 on an account with at least one other HD receiver with an HD/DVR. Getting an HR24 is a little better than like for like.


In a system with at least one other HD receiver, an R22 is _functionally_ an HR22.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

HR21, the R22 doesn't have the larger drive of the HR22.


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## dielray (Aug 5, 2009)

dpeters11 said:


> HR21, the R22 doesn't have the larger drive of the HR22.


Indeed, an R22 is an HR21 in all but name. In fact, I have reason to believe they're being refurbished as such.


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

The Merg said:


> The question or at least the argument is what is the lowest common denominator. Some people would speak to the fact that since the HR20 had an OTA tuner built-in, that would be a base feature. The argument can also be made that if you received an HR23 and had a 500GB HDD, receiving a HR21 with a 320GB is a downgrade.
> 
> That's a discussion that could go on and on. We do know the answer though, at least with how DirecTV views it: all HR2x receivers are functionally equivalent.
> 
> ...


you can have your wrench back - if the person has a r22 then if I recall correctly it means the locals are in Mpeg4 and neither the r15/r16 wotj for that. I maybe remembering incorreclty though.

I stand by what I stated.


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

RACJ2 said:


> I'm sorry, but I can't agree with your interpretation of like equipment. Lets say you had a PC with a core i7 processor, 500 GB hard drive and 10 GB of memory. While under warranty, it had to be swapped. The replacement PC arrives and its a Core Duo, with a 250 GB hard drive and 4 GB of memory. It will still let you surf the internet, create spread sheets, play music and everything else the original PC did. So I guess you would just accept the replacement and never say anything?


If we where talking about computers, then I agree, but we are not so I still stand by lowest common demonitator.

Compare like to like, could justify it using any unlike comparision, car, boat, store, washer, dryer. You would only be accurate if you have a HR24 and you get a H25, then they are not like equipment.

Sorry I agree with Directv's replacement policy, don't really care if they send me a HR21 to replace a defective HR22 / HR23 / HR24, they all do the exact same thing


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

dielray said:


> It would seem DirecTV agrees with you. Currently, the policy for techs is to replace a defective R22 on an account with at least one other HD receiver with an HD/DVR. Getting an HR24 is a little better than like for like.


Thought the policy was at least two other HD receivers were needed on an account of which at least one has to be an HD-DVR were required for the R22 to be considered an HD-DVR and have its HD capabilities enabled?


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## RACJ2 (Aug 2, 2008)

wingrider01 said:


> If we where talking about computers, then I agree, but we are not so I still stand by lowest common demonitator.
> 
> Compare like to like, could justify it using any unlike comparision, car, boat, store, washer, dryer. You would only be accurate if you have a HR24 and you get a H25, then they are not like equipment.
> 
> Sorry I agree with Directv's replacement policy, don't really care if they send me a HR21 to replace a defective HR22 / HR23 / HR24, they all do the exact same thing


So your theory about like equipment only applies to DIRECTV? Even though its basically a PC designed to record and playback programming? With the policy they have in place, I'm sure they enjoy having customers that agree with you.


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## Newshawk (Sep 3, 2004)

dpeters11 said:


> HR21, the R22 doesn't have the larger drive of the HR22.


:icon_dumm My mistake! :bang


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## dielray (Aug 5, 2009)

HoTat2 said:


> Thought the policy was at least two other HD receivers were needed on an account of which at least one has to be an HD-DVR were required for the R22 to be considered an HD-DVR and have its HD capabilities enabled?


Those are the requirements to have MRV on an account. An R22 doesn't count towards the requirement. In the situation where only an HR24 and an R22 are active on an account, both would be HD, but MRV cannot be added(or at least it wont stay).


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

RACJ2 said:


> So your theory about like equipment only applies to DIRECTV? Even though its basically a PC designed to record and playback programming? With the policy they have in place, I'm sure they enjoy having customers that agree with you.


No, my theory applies to same use devices(also not corporation specific as you are assuming) a PC is a multi-purpose device, not a dedicated device like a dvr. Have you run excel / word / powerpoint on your HRXX?

Don;t really care if they are happy with me as a customer, I have no issues with their policies, if I did I would walk away. Been there done that.


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## wahooq (Oct 19, 2011)

+ 1,000


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## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

wingrider01 said:


> No, my theory applies to same use devices(also not corporation specific as you are assuming) a PC is a multi-purpose device, not a dedicated device like a dvr. Have you run excel / word / powerpoint on your HRXX?
> 
> Don;t really care if they are happy with me as a customer, I have no issues with their policies, if I did I would walk away. Been there done that.


I at least agree with your last paragraph. I did walk away and switch to FiOS. 

Direct's dish is still on my roof. I'll take another look and see what the situation is 18 months from now.


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