# Superstations going away Sept19th- get grandfathered now



## scottchez

I just read the notice my retailer showed me. Also the othe site confirms this.
After Sept 19th you will no longer be able to sign up for the superstation package ala carte for $7 nor will you be able to buy them per channel for $2
If you have the channels by Sept 19th you will be auto grandfathered and you will still get them.
Sign up now if you want them. This is a once in a life time chance.
These are Newyork, Boston, Denver, LA 
CW and Mynetwork independent stations with some sports
KTLA
WPIX
KWGN
WSBK
WWOR


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## shadough

doh!


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## John79605

SUPERSTATIONS *Congratulations!* This address is eligible for all Superstations.
Superstations - $2.00 per month**
Station Affiliate DISH Network Channel Number
Superstation KTLA WB 918
Superstation KWGN WB 235
Superstation WPIX WB 916
Superstation WSBK UPN 236
Superstation WWOR UPN 8105

I think it's kinda funny that the channel numbers have been updated here but after 7 years they still list WB and UPN.


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## Paul Secic

KBCW ordered Dish to drop KTLA six years ago.


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## tsmacro

Over the years I've had the Superstations on and off, sometimes just the two out of NY. At the moment I hadn't been subscribing but I just went online and ordered the two NY stations just to be grandfathered in. It'll be interesting to see how long they keep them for the people who are grandfathered, I'm assuming eventually they are going away completely.


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## joshjr

John79605 said:


> SUPERSTATIONS *Congratulations!* This address is eligible for all Superstations.
> Superstations - $2.00 per month**
> Station Affiliate DISH Network Channel Number
> Superstation KTLA WB 918
> Superstation KWGN WB 235
> Superstation WPIX WB 916
> Superstation WSBK UPN 236
> Superstation WWOR UPN 8105
> 
> I think it's kinda funny that the channel numbers have been updated here but after 7 years they still list WB and UPN.


Been saying that for years now. How they continue to miss that just baffles me.


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## kucharsk

I wonder why DISH isn't publicizing this at all.

Me, I've had the Superstations since day 1, and they're the *reason* I have DISH rather than DirecTV.


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## scottchez

Good Point, Directv and Cable does not have the Superstations.
An other optin is just buy one or two supper stations at $2 each, you dont have to get all 5


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## lparsons21

There were reports of some survey that Dish did about the Superstations not long ago. Supposedly only went out to those that subscribed to one or more of them. I suspect they were trying to determine what the impact of dropping them would. With this latest action I suppose the results were that not enough cared about them to make it profitable for Dish.


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## inkahauts

If they are dropping them they must not be making any money at all or are wanting to use the bandwidth for something people want more or will make them more money. Otherwise why drop them?

And DIRECTV does have wgn in a regular package for most everyone.


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## KyL416

inkahauts said:


> And DIRECTV does have wgn in a regular package for most everyone.


The superstation package Dish has are the full versions of those local channels complete with network programming. Despite them at one point using Superstation in their name, WGN America and WGN-TV Chicago, as well as TBS and WTBS Atlanta util 2007, haven't been simulcasts of eachother since the late 80s and are not part of the package.

In the late 80s with the influx of new independent stations across the country that carried syndicated programming that also aired on the superstations at the time (WPIX, WSBK, WOR-TV, WGN-TV, KWGN, KTLA and WTBS), new syndication exclusive rules went into effect for cable that allowed the local stations to blackout programming they had the rights to. WGN-TV, WTBS and the now WWOR-TV all launched alternate feeds with programming they had the national rights to. WGN-TV had the benefit of being owned by Tribune who at the time was also the syndicator of many of the shows they aired, while WTBS and TBS negotiated for national rights for most of their programming as outside of public affairs programming WTBS was always programmed with a national audience in mind, WWOR-TV and the national WOR feed on the other hand had a very different schedule since the station's ownership changed hands multiple times and nearly lost their license in the 80s so they had no real clout and mainly filled the schedule with programming that was no longer nationally syndicated. WGN's national feed initially carried The WB programming to give WB a national audience, while WOR, who eventually eliminated their national feed in the mid 90s, never carried the UPN's programming. Since the rules only applied to cable, satellite providers are allowed to keep the full versions of the other superstations. At the time C-Band was mainly a luxury for people who either wanted more channels than their 36+ channel cable system would give them, or was used as the primary television source for many rural areas that either lacked OTA reception or wasn't served by any local cable system. Dish, Primestar and USSB/DirecTV were several years away from launching and wouldn't provide LIL service for another decade because of other regulations. Dish picked up the Superstations, but for whatever reason DirecTV never carried them.

KTLA, WPIX, WSBK and KWGN vanished from national cable distribution outside of a few lingering regional cable systems that are now subject to blackout. For example until more local affiliates launched cable systems in the northeast continued to used WSBK and WPIX as their initial source of UPN and WB programming. Here in NEPA, Blue Ridge still has WPIX, however some syndicated shows are blacked out. There was some online post a few years ago on another site about WWOR's airing of The 700 Club being blacked out with the on screen message inserted by the cable company just citing "FCC regulations", of course everyone ran with it like it was some conspiracy, not realizing that the poster wasn't in the NYC DMA and it was just the syndex rules that forced the blackout, so he could have seen it on one of his in market stations.

Canada is another story where the CRTC regulates everything so the broadcast stations were licensed and not the cable versions. They still get WGN-TV Chicago and when TBS and WTBS split, Canada got Peachtree TV while TBS's original programming like Conan and their MLB coverage is split between Sportsnet, CTV, The Comedy Network and Much.


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## inkahauts

Yes but today almost all the programming on all the superstations is already available in every local via another local station especially The CW Stuff. Local news is the biggest gain which I doubt is much ratings pull out of market. 

In its hey day they where big deals. Today not nearly as much. 


Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk mobile app


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## James Long

Superstations on satellite could be blocked by a local affiliate's complaint. If a station has the exclusive local market rights to programming (either WB/UPN now CW or syndicated programming) they could ask DISH to block the out of market feed. Instead of blocking the individual shows (as required under the law) DISH kept it simple and blocked the full channel in markets where a local station had exercised their rights.

They certainly are not as valuable as they were before the network and most of the syndicated programming (including classic shows) found homes on local broadcasters and regular cable networks.


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## SeaBeagle

I just ordered the 7.00 superstation deal even though I do not watch many of those channels. But now I have them if the announcement is true.


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## kucharsk

lparsons21 said:


> There were reports of some survey that Dish did about the Superstations not long ago. Supposedly only went out to those that subscribed to one or more of them. I suspect they were trying to determine what the impact of dropping them would. With this latest action I suppose the results were that not enough cared about them to make it profitable for Dish.


I've subscribed to the superstations via DISH for over 13 years now but didn't receive any survey.


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## FTA Michael

Nobody's mentioned the background issue that must be the elephant in the room to Dish, The Satellite Television Extension and Localism Act is the law that gives Dish the right to carry the Superstations, as well as other distant signals and local-into-local IIFC. STELA expires at the end of 2014, and Congress started chewing on renewal legislation a few months ago. Last time, at the last minute, STELA was renewed like a library book, exactly as it had been, and the Superstation exemption survived because of inertia. There are a lot of reasons to think that won't happen this cycle.

(Quick aside: The supers were one big reason I chose Dish 12 years ago. They had all that live local sports. Now their SD format is below our new viewing standard, their baseball coverage has almost evaporated, and they rarely show anything that isn't available on my local TV. Such a shame.)

You know why Time Warner Cable held out against CBS for a month, only to roll over and give CBS almost everything it wanted? To raise national awareness about the retransmission consent system and how it works (arguably?) to the detriment of viewers. Rumblings on Capitol Hill are starting to build to fix retransmission consent, and STELA, a related bill that's furthest along, could soon see some big changes to become a larger bill. According to Multichannel News, the House Judiciary Subcommittee will hold a STELA hearing tomorrow (Tuesday), and the House Communications Subcommittee will hold a STELA hearing Wednesday. As the MCN article states, advisors from all sides of the issue are lining up to weigh in on what should be in the next STELA.

To sum it up, we don't know what's going to happen with STELA, but almost no one in the debate will care two cents about the Superstations. It would be a very nice surprise if they were still available in 2015.


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## joetex

The Superstations and distants were the main factor in our choosing Dish 14 years ago. I still watch the Superstations (although as Mike points out, they are not what they used to be) plus the distants that I receive on AAD for local news and an occasional time shift of a program that I forgot to DVR. If they disappear, staying with Dish would be highly unlikely for us absent some other factor that would make them unique.


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## SeaBeagle

joetex said:


> The Superstations and distants were the main factor in our choosing Dish 14 years ago. I still watch the Superstations (although as Mike points out, they are not what they used to be) plus the distants that I receive on AAD for local news and an occasional time shift of a program that I forgot to DVR. If they disappear, staying with Dish would be highly unlikely for us absent some other factor that would make them unique.


What are the other distant channels DISH offer besides the superstations ?


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## joetex

Distants from New York and San Francisco via All American Direct


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## BillJ

I've had Superstations from the beginning. I still watch them regularly. No one sent me the survey but at least I'm grandfathered in.


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## FTA Michael

Hey, BillJ, thanks for starting this thread. I rarely visit That Other Site, and I would have been sad to lose out on the opportunity to grandfather myself (like Futurama's Fry) on some of the last distant OTA channels. Thanks to you, I signed up.


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## joshjr

kucharsk said:


> I wonder why DISH isn't publicizing this at all.
> 
> Me, I've had the Superstations since day 1, and they're the *reason* I have DISH rather than DirecTV.


They are not worth staying with Dish for to me. I get East & West coast locals as well as my DMA's. Can't get that with Dish.


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## joshjr

James Long said:


> Superstations on satellite could be blocked by a local affiliate's complaint. If a station has the exclusive local market rights to programming (either WB/UPN now CW or syndicated programming) they could ask DISH to block the out of market feed. Instead of blocking the individual shows (as required under the law) DISH kept it simple and blocked the full channel in markets where a local station had exercised their rights.
> 
> They certainly are not as valuable as they were before the network and most of the syndicated programming (including classic shows) found homes on local broadcasters and regular cable networks.


They can ask all they want but in some situations stations can be considered significantly viewed and are not subject to blackout restrictions and are not required to be shut down due to a in market affiliate.


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## joshjr

FTA Michael said:


> Nobody's mentioned the background issue that must be the elephant in the room to Dish, The Satellite Television Extension and Localism Act is the law that gives Dish the right to carry the Superstations, as well as other distant signals and local-into-local IIFC. STELA expires at the end of 2014, and Congress started chewing on renewal legislation a few months ago. Last time, at the last minute, STELA was renewed like a library book, exactly as it had been, and the Superstation exemption survived because of inertia. There are a lot of reasons to think that won't happen this cycle.
> 
> (Quick aside: The supers were one big reason I chose Dish 12 years ago. They had all that live local sports. Now their SD format is below our new viewing standard, their baseball coverage has almost evaporated, and they rarely show anything that isn't available on my local TV. Such a shame.)
> 
> You know why Time Warner Cable held out against CBS for a month, only to roll over and give CBS almost everything it wanted? To raise national awareness about the retransmission consent system and how it works (arguably?) to the detriment of viewers. Rumblings on Capitol Hill are starting to build to fix retransmission consent, and STELA, a related bill that's furthest along, could soon see some big changes to become a larger bill. According to Multichannel News, the House Judiciary Subcommittee will hold a STELA hearing tomorrow (Tuesday), and the House Communications Subcommittee will hold a STELA hearing Wednesday. As the MCN article states, advisors from all sides of the issue are lining up to weigh in on what should be in the next STELA.
> 
> To sum it up, we don't know what's going to happen with STELA, but almost no one in the debate will care two cents about the Superstations. It would be a very nice surprise if they were still available in 2015.


Well I guess I disagree in some ways. While I know the Super Stations are a little different, there was a hearing a few months ago where it was stated that if DNS channels were not allowed to continue, there were a lot of customers that would be affected. If they allow DNS feeds to continue ( I would be surprised if they didn't) I do not see why they would not also continue with the Super Stations. I dont think anyone on those panels wants to get the calls from customers that had their stations taken away because of some decisions someone else made for them.


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## joshjr

Below is a link to the video for the hearing that occurred today.

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/38551431


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## joshjr

Well I just finished watching the entire hearing. Every time I watch one of these I get mad at the NAB rep. Anyone who can't see that the NAB does not care about paying customers is blind. I understand that allowing a station to be imported during a blackout does violate the exclusive rights of the local station but I do not think it is in turn fair to encourage customers to leave their current provider for another to get the desired station. The guy from the NAB kept referring to the recent CBS issue with Time Warner and just kept saying that they were never off the air and were available via antenna. What does that say to people like you and me who pay for a reliable signal for that local channel? To me it says that the station and the NAB don't give a crap about me. If I want their content I am already paying for, I should do something different to get it. No regards for contracts in place or the price of an antenna not to mention what it takes to properly install one and an appropriate height to get a proper signal. 

The NAB just makes me sick. At least Dish and other Cable providers that had reps at the hearing all seem to say, we will continue to pay and can make the new adjustment that goes into affect retroactive to resolve the problem. The NAB just wants to keep control and not help give anyone else any power in negotiations. Not to mention the NAB things DNS feeds should go away even for customers that do not have an affiliate presence in their DMA for one or more of the big 4 (ABC,CBS, FOX, NBC). So from my perspective, the NAB cares enough to tell you to leave your provider if needed, get an antenna to get the signal for free and hope you can get the signal. If you can't guess its back to paying a different provider to get the content. 

The one thing I was hoping to hear more on was the orphan county issue. While it did get brought up a little, it was usually specific to one persons (person speaking) area. I want to know what they intend to do with the issue as a whole. For me, yes I live closer to the DMA that serves me currently but I do not live in either state that provides me with those local channels. I know I am missing in state content and in state sports because of it.

It is also worth mentioning that one person had a great comment on the fact that the DMA rule does not really work properly. The point being made in the hearing was that Neilson does not take anything into account other then viewing habits. That is a great point. The fact that most people in my county view the Joplin/Pittsburg DMA to me is irrelevant. I bet if they were given the option of the closest in state DMA (Tulsa), they would jump at the opportunity.

We do need changes and I think we need Congress to do it. TV stations should not be allowed to raise rates between 50-250 times the previous amount. I know as a employee of the company I work for, it would not go good if I asked for a 250% increase in pay the next time I was in line for a raise. With people wanting other markets local channel's why don't they just make it where we can get another DMA's locals as long as we are willing to pay double the price for local channels? This way it would be fair to the local market as they still get their money from me as a paying customer.


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## FTA Michael

The stations have the cable/satellite systems over a barrel. Of course they are going to fight any attempts to change that situation.

I am frequently amused by the NAB when it says that each station is a vital lifeline serving the community, and that if the local cable system doesn't play ball, it'll go dark. NAB president Gordon Smith once said that in consecutive sentences! (Mind you, he put it much better and more diplomatically than that, but still.)

But I suppose we need to steer back to our main topic. Did anyone at that hearing even mention superstations?


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## James Long

joshjr said:


> They can ask all they want but in some situations stations can be considered significantly viewed and are not subject to blackout restrictions and are not required to be shut down due to a in market affiliate.


Superstations only count as significantly viewed in the areas where they have been listed as significantly viewed. Which is a relatively small footprint compared to national distribution as a Superstation (where they are subject to blackout/deletion). When carried in market they are carried as local-into-local stations under those rules.


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## James Long

joshjr said:


> To me it says that the station and the NAB don't give a crap about me. If I want their content I am already paying for, I should do something different to get it. No regards for contracts in place or the price of an antenna not to mention what it takes to properly install one and an appropriate height to get a proper signal.


What contracts in place? Channels leave when there is no contract. The contracts are no longer in place.

Please make no mistake ... the NAB is the "National Association of *Broadcasters*" - not the national association of broadcast content viewers. Their job is to represent the best interest of the broadcasters - not us. They are doing their job.



joshjr said:


> Not to mention the NAB things DNS feeds should go away even for customers that do not have an affiliate presence in their DMA for one or more of the big 4 (ABC,CBS, FOX, NBC).


It does not serve the networks to be missing in any market ... but they are free to negotiate any deal that they wish to distribute their channels (as long as it doesn't conflict with their agreement with local affiliates). The Distant laws force the issue without the network's or station's permission. Somewhere along the line congress decided that people somehow have the "right" to receive network programming if there is no local affiliate --- yet that "right" fades when the local affiliate chooses not to be carried or the carrier decides not to carry a distant (where permitted).

That is something I'd like to work out. Either take away the right to a network where there is no affiliate or expand the right so all affiliates MUST allow carriage under a statutory fee structure.


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## shadough

Am officially signed up as a "Super sub". As well as AAD. I think I qualify for the Supers becuz I live in a rural area. I can't pick up a single station OTA (cept maybe at night or during Tropo), an I do have a big ANT on the roof (mind you it was designed for the Analog days, back when I actually could pick up something). If I try using an address thats closer to DC (ie: somewhere in NoVa), on the dish.com website local station 'qualifier', its a NO for Supers. So I guess I'm thankfull for that.

And yes I know you've got the NY DNS Josh from D*, but we have the NY locals too here on E* (granted its thru a 3rd party A.A.D.). And allthough you may have the LA DNS, we've got the SF DNS (from AAD). I think I'd rather have LA but I'll take SF. At least SF has 2 football teams, LA has none. Unless you count the new L.A. Kiss?!?! =) Kinda nice to see all the 9ers games, Giants games, Jets games and the occasionaly Raider game (as long as they arn't blacked out). Which begs the question, do these proceedings affect AAD at all?? I know they're kinda circumventing the rules as they are now, being that they dont provide ANY LIL (local in local), just distant.


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## SeaBeagle

This all started with some winey judge in Florida illegalizimg. distant locals to markets not pe IFC to that location. I still can not figure out his reasoning for this. I guess that old tree knot did not have anything better to do.


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## joshjr

FTA Michael said:


> The stations have the cable/satellite systems over a barrel. Of course they are going to fight any attempts to change that situation.
> 
> I am frequently amused by the NAB when it says that each station is a vital lifeline serving the community, and that if the local cable system doesn't play ball, it'll go dark. NAB president Gordon Smith once said that in consecutive sentences! (Mind you, he put it much better and more diplomatically than that, but still.)
> 
> But I suppose we need to steer back to our main topic. Did anyone at that hearing even mention superstations?


Actually they did on a few occasions.


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## joshjr

shadough said:


> Am officially signed up as a "Super sub". As well as AAD. I think I qualify for the Supers becuz I live in a rural area. I can't pick up a single station OTA (cept maybe at night or during Tropo), an I do have a big ANT on the roof (mind you it was designed for the Analog days, back when I actually could pick up something). If I try using an address thats closer to DC (ie: somewhere in NoVa), on the dish.com website local station 'qualifier', its a NO for Supers. So I guess I'm thankfull for that.
> 
> And yes I know you've got the NY DNS Josh from D*, but we have the NY locals too here on E* (granted its thru a 3rd party A.A.D.). And allthough you may have the LA DNS, we've got the SF DNS (from AAD). I think I'd rather have LA but I'll take SF. At least SF has 2 football teams, LA has none. Unless you count the new L.A. Kiss?!?! =) Kinda nice to see all the 9ers games, Giants games, Jets games and the occasionaly Raider game (as long as they arn't blacked out). Which begs the question, do these proceedings affect AAD at all?? I know they're kinda circumventing the rules as they are now, being that they dont provide ANY LIL (local in local), just distant.


Well if DNS feeds are not re-approved, I dont see how ADD can still offer them either.


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## James Long

shadough said:


> Which begs the question, do these proceedings affect AAD at all?? I know they're kinda circumventing the rules as they are now, being that they dont provide ANY LIL (local in local), just distant.


If the distants rules are not renewed at the end of next year the authority for AAD to carry distants will cease to exist. DirecTV and DISH will also lose the ability to carry distants. Yes, this affects all satellite carriers.

I suspect if what we consider distants (complete markets offered from the east or west coast, AAD style) goes away Congress will expand on the Significantly Viewed side of the rules to allow neighboring market stations to be carried when no in market affiliate is available.

The real fixes needed (in my opinion) are 1) statutory license rates similar to what is paid for distants and superstations - with all stations in each market considered "must carry" and all who claim rights getting payment and 2) distribution via satellite to any community that is predicted to receive the signal over the air, plus the entire home market of the station. It is wrong for satellite viewers not to be able to receive via satellite signals that they can receive OTA and via local cable operations. In many communities the law prevents satellite carriage of local channels that are required to be carried on cable. The requirements should be the same.

And as far as superstations ... I don't see the point. Someone else is going to have to come up with a rationale to keep them. And either the rules need to be expanded so any station can become a superstation (preferably with the station's permission) or someone needs to explain why those stations are so special they they get to be carried nationally while others can't (under that particular law).

(Any station can negotiate national carriage with a cable or satellite company - as long as they own the rights to rebroadcast their content nationally.)



SeaBeagle said:


> This all started with some winey judge in Florida illegalizimg. distant locals to markets not pe IFC to that location. I still can not figure out his reasoning for this. I guess that old tree knot did not have anything better to do.


It started with satellite broadcasters (C Band and then DBS) picking up a few network stations and reselling them nationally. They were sued and the courts agreed that the satellite broadcasters had no right to rebroadcast OTA signals without the station's permission. Then congress stepped in and made it legal under certain circumstances.

The carriage laws are generally PERMISSIVE. Without them we'd be back at the court's decision ... no retransmission of local stations, distant stations or superstations.


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## Don M

Like several others here I chose DISH over 10 years ago because of the Superstations. I nvever received any survey or other communication from DISH concerning whether to keep them or not. I do not want to see them go.


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## djlong

The NAB represents the broadcasters.

The broadcasters serve their customers.

The customers are the ADVERTISERS. The product consists of the eyes and ears of the viewers.

The NAB claims they support the community and stress the word "local" all the time. Yet how many times do you hear of a station being sold to a conglomerate and the first thing they do is fire all the local talent, replacing it with packaged, syndicated product in the name of "cost savings" (which would be necessary if they didn't just take out a multi million dollar mortgage to buy the station).

We heard this when they (the NAB) were screaming at Sirius and XM. They lied then and they lie now - nothing has changed.


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## FTA Michael

Here's the blow-by-blow account of yesterday's STELA hearing by Broadcasting & Cable's John Eggerton, the hardest-working man in Washington. IMHO, this might be of sufficient interest to Dish viewers in general to start a separate STELA reauthorization thread without a Superstation title, but I'll leave that question to the fine folks who work here.

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/495405-Retrans_Fight_Stars_in_STELA_Hearing.php


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## SeaBeagle

It started with satellite broadcasters (C Band and then DBS) picking up a few network stations and reselling them nationally. They were sued and the courts agreed that the satellite broadcasters had no right to rebroadcast OTA signals without the station's permission. Then congress stepped in and made it legal under certain circumstances.

The carriage laws are generally PERMISSIVE. Without them we'd be back at the court's decision ... no retransmission of local stations, distant stations or superstations.[/quote]

I would think the owner of any TV station would be glad to have anyone in the whole country view the station. Look at all the radio stations that we can listen to with any problem. Anywhere from California to New York and the whole world. TV should be the same way.


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## James Long

SeaBeagle said:


> It started with satellite broadcasters (C Band and then DBS) picking up a few network stations and reselling them nationally. They were sued and the courts agreed that the satellite broadcasters had no right to rebroadcast OTA signals without the station's permission. Then congress stepped in and made it legal under certain circumstances.
> 
> The carriage laws are generally PERMISSIVE. Without them we'd be back at the court's decision ... no retransmission of local stations, distant stations or superstations.
> 
> 
> 
> I would think the owner of any TV station would be glad to have anyone in the whole country view the station. Look at all the radio stations that we can listen to with any problem. Anywhere from California to New York and the whole world. TV should be the same way.
Click to expand...

In general I agree ... the extra distribution helps, even if all it does is provide additional eyes for the infomercials and national focused advertising. The stations do not get paid directly for their carriage ... the content owners can file a claim against the statutory licensing fee pool to compensate for the use of their copyrighted material.

Content has become more controlled ... WGN and WTBS bowed out of the superstation game and became real cable channels to avoid rights issues and be able to be paid directly for their content.

I don't see superstations making a ton of money off of their out of market carriage (unless they go the route of WGN and WTBS). Carriage is not the worst thing in the world ... but with no direct payment it isn't a cash cow.


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## SeaBeagle

In general I agree ... the extra distribution helps, even if all it does is provide additional eyes for the infomercials and national focused advertising. The stations do not get paid directly for their carriage ... the content owners can file a claim against the statutory licensing fee pool to compensate for the use of their copyrighted material.

Content has become more controlled ... WGN and WTBS bowed out of the superstation game and became real cable channels to avoid rights issues and be able to be paid directly for their content.

I don't see superstations making a ton of money off of their out of market carriage (unless they go the route of WGN and WTBS). Carriage is not the worst thing in the world ... but with no direct payment it isn't a cash cow.


Look at it like this they still make the same monies if the station was not nation wide. It gives the local market exposure. Free advertising of he location.


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## KyL416

SeaBeagle said:


> I would think the owner of any TV station would be glad to have anyone in the whole country view the station. Look at all the radio stations that we can listen to with any problem. Anywhere from California to New York and the whole world. TV should be the same way.


Comparing TV to Radio is apples to oranges. For one thing most of the content is either locally produced live or voice tracked and packaged in a way that's unique to each station. (i.e. shows like On Air with Ryan Seacrest contain the same segments, but they usually air in a custom order and the music that plays around them is different for each station)

When it comes to syndicated content like Rush, Imus, Hannity, etc the stations have to pay the syndicator extra for online rights, larger broadcasters like Clear Channel and Cumulus do afford it, but the smaller broadcasters usually black out the programming. Towards the end of his FM run, almost no one streamed Howard Stern online. Throw in sports, most of that gets blacked out too outside of the NHL and select NBA and NFL games.


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## FTA Michael

Here's the latest on another STELA hearing, with the focus on retransmission consent reform, maybe.

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/495442-House_Ponders_Range_Of_Video_Reg_Issues.php


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## scottchez

Lots of local news tonight on the Supers. Colorado Floods and NJ boardwalk fire. 
Order while you can . . .


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## david_jr

I canceled my Supers when I upgraded to the Hopper in a cost cutting move as my monthly fees increased dramatically. They had become pretty irrelavent being SD only and the fact that DISH now carries our local CW in HD which is a close mirror of WPIX other than the NY local news which I rarely watched anyway. Even so I do not understand why DISH would stop offfering them to new subs. If they are letting others keep them they do not save TP space.


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## djlong

Same thing here. When I went HD there was only one or two shows on the Supers that I was interested in and I had other ways of getting them. Now we have all the locals in HD (and those shows have since been cancelled) so it was a way to save a few dollars. Now I'm looking at where I can save money again since my bill has crept up to $145 (2 Hoppers, 3 Joeys, AT250, HBO/Starz)


----------



## Paul Secic

scottchez said:


> Lots of local news tonight on the Supers. Colorado Floods and NJ boardwalk fire.
> Order while you can . . .


I can't!


----------



## tampa8

david_jr said:


> If they are letting others keep them they do not save TP space.


That's not how it works. All but one or two are there for the locals anyway, just because they are in another package does not make them take up more space/bandwidth. That one or two are on both ARC's when they might not otherwise be, but we are talking SD, tiny bandwidth. This change has nothing to do with bandwidth space.


----------



## tampa8

scottchez said:


> Lots of local news tonight on the Supers. Colorado Floods and NJ boardwalk fire.
> Order while you can . . .


We also were watching last night on the Supers.


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## shadough

As far bandwidth goes, I would think it would save space by moving them to Spotbeams only instead of on ConUS. Not sure how much space it would save.


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## James Long

Not much. 5 channels of SD? DISH is not hurting for SD space. There are five NYC channels (other than WWOR) that are still ConUS. (I believe the rest of the locals on 110/119 are now all spotbeamed.)

Completely clearing a SD transponder so it can be used for HD would not be a bad thing.


----------



## shadough

I'm guessing 4 of those 5 are the ones that AAD is using? Thus the need for them to be on ConUS?


----------



## James Long

AAD has their own feeds on 119 TP 15. The story goes they lease the entire transponder.

Somehow DISH has a few channels on that transponder now. 
(Perhaps AAD now only leases part of the transponder?)


----------



## scottchez

Last chance to even sign up for the super stations.


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## SeaBeagle

I have mine.


----------



## SeaBeagle

SUPERSTATIONS Congratulations! This address is eligible for all Superstations.
Superstations - $2.00 per month**
Station Affiliate DISH Network Channel Number
Superstation KTLA WB 918
Superstation KWGN WB 235
Superstation WPIX WB 916
Superstation WSBK UPN 236
Superstation WWOR UPN 8105


I think it's kinda funny that the channel numbers have been updated here but after 7 years they still list WB and UPN.


On my receiver the numbers are like this.

KTLA 233
WPIX 234
KWGN 235
WSBK 236
WWOR 238


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## BrucePadgett

Is it me, or is the PQ of the superstations pretty lousy? I checked them out at a local Blockbuster where they had a monitor wired to Dish programming. In comparison to almost every other channel, the picture on the supers was bloody awful, fuzzy, smeary. I mean, change the prescription on the glasses bad. 

And really, will Dish continue to indefinitely carry them at all, given that no new subs are allowed?


----------



## James Long

BrucePadgett said:


> And really, will Dish continue to indefinitely carry them at all, given that no new subs are allowed?


Indefinite is not infinite. They will go away eventually. I suppose DISH could have just dropped them cold but they seem to be easing them out the door.


----------



## FTA Michael

BrucePadgett said:


> Is it me, or is the PQ of the superstations pretty lousy?


Years ago, I used to watch WNGS (Buffalo NY) through a FTA dish. All the FTA enthusiasts agreed that WNGS's transponder was horribly overloaded, carrying about 14 channels in a space designed for 10 or less, roughly speaking. WNGS used to show a few Yankees games using WWOR's feed, with the WNGS logo sitting next to the My9 logo.

Once during a game, I switched between inputs on my TV. The allegedly overcompressed, second-hand feed from WNGS was noticeably more colorful and crisp than what Dish served me directly from WWOR.

Having said all that, after I resubscribed to the Supers a few weeks ago, I braced myself for some serious ugly, but I was pleasantly surprised that it wasn't as bad as I remembered. Still, when Dish delivers them, they'll always be in SD, and the PQ is never going to win awards. I think we're fortunate to have them at all.

EDIT PS: As predicted, the Superstations are no longer on Dish's a la carte programming tab.


----------



## SeaBeagle

All the superstations on my receiver look fine on my DISH Hopper and my HDTV.


----------



## SeaBeagle

I still see the superstations being offered on DISH's web page.

UPDATE: I originally sent the a above reply on Earrrrrrrlyon the morning of September 19th.

Today I do not see any Superstation offerings. So the story is definatly true.


----------



## Link

SeaBeagle said:


> I still see the superstations being offered on DISH's web page. UPDATE: I originally sent the a above reply on Earrrrrrrlyon the morning of September 19th. Today I do not see any Superstation offerings. So the story is definatly true.


I thought we had until September 19th to add them. I didn't get KWGN from Denver added in time and yesterday on the 19th they wouldn't let me have it...I was not happy after being a longtime customer and knowing the 19th was the deadline. One CSR online gave me $5 credit for 6 months and another gave three months of premium channels free...all nice I guess but seems ridiculous they couldn't give me KWGN when it is not like Dish doesn't have it available...


----------



## SeaBeagle

I would not have purchased them if there was no plan to not after the channels. But I would would not be happy if I wanted them and could not get the channels. We ever decide we do not want these channels and take them off out subscriptions then decide to get them back if we will be able to get them.


----------



## FTA Michael

At CEDIA Expo, I asked a Dish PR guy why Dish had stopped selling the Superstations. He went off to a lengthy discussion with Dish executives out of earshot, then returned and said it was because Dish was legally obliged not to offer them any longer, but they're still grandfathered.

Of course, that didn't make a lot of sense; the law didn't change between Sept. 1 and today. I figure that either he misheard a description of the STELA renewal process (where I would expect that Dish will eventually lose the Superstation exemption) or that the exec he talked to didn't have a firm handle on it himself. Somebody at Dish knows the real reason, but I haven't found him or her yet.


----------



## James Long

Perhaps contractually obligated but I agree that the law has not changed (yet) to prevent carriage of superstations.


----------



## SeaBeagle

I wish that whole thing about not being to sell out of market stations to customers should disappear. What is he harm of letting customers look at stations that are not in there home location. Like if someone moves from their hometown and would like to keep up with the news from that location that person should be allowed to do that. I know that DISH would love to be able to do that.


----------



## tampa8

Code:


Big harm. They depend on viewers watching their News programs, it's where their revenue comes from
and how much they can charge advertisers. The LA local isn't gaining anything in local advertising revenue by someone
in Pittsburgh watching.But Pittsburgh loses big time in losing viewers not watching local ads. 
It's why OTA is free. I don't begrudge them that. The problem is two things. 
First, the locals should not be charging to be carried precisley because they are protected. 
Second, there is no reason there can't be an AAD type of set-up where you pay to watch out of market locals, 
with that money at least partly going to the local losing the ad revenue.


----------



## gov

And there is a big problem the other way too.

Citizens in a DMA that is based from a city not in their state are essentially disenfranchised from *their* state governance if the media in their DMA chooses not to cover items relating to their state's administration.

Seems like this difficulty might be a bit more important than somebody going to the 'wrong' city to purchase a sofa . . .

I'd like to see every accommodation made to provide all citizens of a given state access to the TV stations based in whatever DMA their state capitol happens to be located in.


----------



## James Long

tampa8 said:


> It's why OTA is free.


OTA is free because the station license requires OTA to be free (one feed per channel must be free). Stations would certainly charge for reception if it were legal, easy and people would actually pay. There are some stations that people simply would not pay for ... so free is the only option. Charging through a retransmitter such as a cable or satellite carrier is legal and easy. If the cable or satellite carrier refuses to pay they can't retransmit the signal. But charging for direct OTA reception is difficult. While equipment exists that can scramble and access control OTA viewing, there has not been a successful implementation.

(Theoretically a station could transmit a SD infomercial feed OTA and charge for their HD network feed on a scrambled subchannel. But the market has yet to support such a scheme.)


----------



## Paul Secic

Link said:


> I thought we had until September 19th to add them. I didn't get KWGN from Denver added in time and yesterday on the 19th they wouldn't let me have it...I was not happy after being a longtime customer and knowing the 19th was the deadline. One CSR online gave me $5 credit for 6 months and another gave three months of premium channels free...all nice I guess but seems ridiculous they couldn't give me KWGN when it is not like Dish doesn't have it available...


I still would like to get Superstations.


----------



## Orion9

James Long said:


> OTA is free because the station license requires OTA to be free (one feed per channel must be free).


I guess he should have said: "It's _how_ OTA is free" instead of "why" 

ie: whatever the license says, it's also expected to be a viable business for someone.


----------



## sharonmu

You all are so lucky to have found out about superstations being gone forever. I removed mine due to wanting to add HBO & Cinemax to save money. Then i was going to add them back and was told dish would have them forever and that i could add them back. I keep wwor because i have no my tv network in my area. We'll on the 20th of september i was on dish to add them they we're gone and googled and found your all's website. I wish i had known about your website. I think its awesome you all posted this. But i think its unfair for people that didn't get the option to add them back or receive a email or anything saying once in a lifetime to add them back. I hope you don't take offense to anything i said. Please just email me if they ever do add them back. Its one of the main reasons i switched from directv to dish. ANd the thing is i had cw from washington & the west coast. But loved KTLA & WPIX more. I am getting all american direct which since i have a hopper i have to pay to have them add the extra lnb 119. Which is stupid. And they won't let me out of my contract even though i asked if they carried the superstations. Its not fair Sharon :bang


----------



## SeaBeagle

This forum is good for news. I did not know a out the superstation thing until I read that here. I would have never knew this. Because I found out I added all the superstations the same night that I read this here.

Not much on these channels that I am interested in looking at. But some day there might be.


----------



## comizzou573

I was grandfather until the stupid representative at dish disconnected my entire service instead of cancelling my appoint. They told me they are going to try get it added back and they need to get authorization from the promotion management team to fix the issue. If they dont fix my superstation and get it re-grandfather, I am leaving dish after 15 years of being a loyal customer and subbing to premium package and going to time warner cable : ). They screw me over like this!!!!


----------



## sharonmu

This is horrible. And you had them and they removed them in error. We'll if they don't add them back. that's not right. I even spoke to a supervisor. A very hateful lady. Saying i just wanted them back She said dish can change programming without being told (there customers). Because they only told dish retailers that you had until the 19th to get them. And i removed all of mine except my 9 wwor. Because to save money. And they won't add KTLA or WPIX back. Even though i told them i think they should've posted this or emailed there customers. Please let me know if you get them back.


----------



## comizzou573

Call this lady and let them know what happen [redacted]@dish.com or 720-[redacted] She is trying to help me resolve my situation. I am not sure if they are lying to me and if they are I will be leaving dish for time warner cable. She was like the 40th person I spoke today, been on the phone since they made a mistake from 12pm to 730pm. Trying to get connected to someone nice, dish doesnt obviously care about its customers. It sickens me when dish advertise before being getting connected to a representative that they have world class customer service and that directv vs dish commerical...when they do not even listen to their loyal customers.



sharonmu said:


> This is horrible. And you had them and they removed them in error. We'll if they don't add them back. that's not right. I even spoke to a supervisor. A very hateful lady. Saying i just wanted them back She said dish can change programming without being told (there customers). Because they only told dish retailers that you had until the 19th to get them. And i removed all of mine except my 9 wwor. Because to save money. And they won't add KTLA or WPIX back. Even though i told them i think they should've posted this or emailed there customers. Please let me know if you get them back.


[Note: Personal contact information redacted.]


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## sharonmu

Thanks so much for trying to help me i emailed her and will try and call her tommorrow. I really love dish network. But superstations is something that sets them away from different companies. I hope you can get yours back. And me too.


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## Mariah2014

I agree. I also did the same thing. I had only two of them to start with, but after learning about this and some content I had forgot about I add the entire back of them since I wouldn't get another chance too.


SeaBeagle said:


> This forum is good for news. I did not know a out the superstation thing until I read that here. I would have never knew this. Because I found out I added all the superstations the same night that I read this here.
> 
> Not much on these channels that I am interested in looking at. But some day there might be.


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## comizzou573

Situation resolved for me and finally got my stations back on, didnt even know my pbs national was gone to, and they added it back.


----------



## tampa8

sharonmu said:


> Its one of the main reasons i switched from directv to dish. ANd the thing is i had cw from washington & the west coast. But loved KTLA & WPIX more. I am getting all american direct which since i have a hopper i have to pay to have them add the extra lnb 119. Which is stupid. And they won't let me out of my contract even though i asked if they carried the superstations. Its not fair Sharon :bang


The main reason you switched, loved KTLA etc.. but you dropped them? That's exactly why DISH no longer offers superstations. Even a subscriber who switched to DISH for superstations didn't subscribe to them. Also the contract does clearly state all programming is subject to change. (As it does for virtually all carriers)

Also had you installed the 119 LNB at the time of getting the Hopper it very likely would have been included. In addition if you had the insurance plan you may have had it installed for less, then eventually drop the insurance plan, I know not everyone knows that. Dish can't possibly come out for free every time a customer wants a different satellite configuration. And beyond that, you are actually subscribing to a different company with AAD, so DISH makes no more if you do or do not subscribe to those distants. (They charge satellite space to AAD) so it's even less likely they will come out for free. Contrast that to wanting the 118 satellite for those channels from DISH and they often will work on the cost with you.
I do hope at some point you can get them.


----------



## sharonmu

comizzou573 said:


> Situation resolved for me and finally got my stations back on, didnt even know my pbs national was gone to, and they added it back.


Your so lucky I tried to call the lady you told plus email her she won't return my calls. Yours so lucky. Maybe someday they'll add them back. Sharon


----------



## sharonmu

tampa8 said:


> The main reason you switched, loved KTLA etc.. but you dropped them? That's exactly why DISH no longer offers superstations. Even a subscriber who switched to DISH for superstations didn't subscribe to them. Also the contract does clearly state all programming is subject to change. (As it does for virtually all carriers)
> 
> Also had you installed the 119 LNB at the time of getting the Hopper it very likely would have been included. In addition if you had the insurance plan you may have had it installed for less, then eventually drop the insurance plan, I know not everyone knows that. Dish can't possibly come out for free every time a customer wants a different satellite configuration. And beyond that, you are actually subscribing to a different company with AAD, so DISH makes no more if you do or do not subscribe to those distants. (They charge satellite space to AAD) so it's even less likely they will come out for free. Contrast that to wanting the 118 satellite for those channels from DISH and they often will work on the cost with you.
> I do hope at some point you can get them.


I had WWOR i was trying to save money with KTLA on the 14th of july they told me i could get them back anytime even if i removed them . and got HBO & CINEMAX. when i tried to turn them back on the 20th i googled superstations and found this great forum. I still can't believe they did this maybe they'll let American direct take care of superstations. Or at least have another deadline. Sharon


----------



## comizzou573

sharonmu said:


> Your so lucky I tried to call the lady you told plus email her she won't return my calls. Yours so lucky. Maybe someday they'll add them back. Sharon


If it was company error then they would be able to help out, but if you voluntary gave it up those channels. Then they would not be able to do anything for you.


----------



## tampa8

sharonmu said:


> I had WWOR i was trying to save money with KTLA on the 14th of july they told me i could get them back anytime even if i removed them . and got HBO & CINEMAX. when i tried to turn them back on the 20th i googled superstations and found this great forum. I still can't believe they did this maybe they'll let American direct take care of superstations. Or at least have another deadline. Sharon


Not impossible that AAD could provide superstations.


----------



## James Long

tampa8 said:


> Not impossible that AAD could provide superstations.


Not likely either. They would need to lease more transponder space (DISH has other channels on AAD's transponder).


----------



## sharonmu

I don't know if anyone like me is still upset over this still. But i did find something out about the superstations. I guess dish has added this but what i don't understand is if the law hasn't changed then they should give us all another time limit. Also does this mean if i ever move i'll loose the only one i still have WWOR 237.
This is a better place for dish news then the actual site. Plus i don't know how but i looked up dish some promotion places still say superstations available

But syndication exclusivity blackout requests have led Dish Network to stop selling one or more of the stations in some markets. As of September 19, 2013, Dish stopped selling Superstations outside of their home markets, only limiting them to those who were already subscribed to them at that point.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superstation

I hope this is a okay post.


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## James Long

It is a reference free comment on Wikipedia ... it would be better if there was an actual source behind the claim.


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## SeaBeagle

All American Direct does not want any new customers but, they like our money.

I contacted All American Direct on the pho e to order the distant TV stations offered. I was told by the receptionist this can only be done on he Internet. I thought fine. So I did that. I chose the channels that I want to order. Then I was asked for my credit card number and was charged ten dollars. I thought great I have all the distant networks offered.


Well.....I looked on guide and saw these channels did not show up. So I checked my order status on the All American Direct web page. I knew then that I was scammed. On the order it read that I purchased some paper called a waver. I did not order that. I ordered channels.

Do NOT get scammed out of ten dollars on All Americans Webpage like I did. That company makes its monies by charging peeps 10.00 and gives one nothing.

At least the scam was only ten dollars.


----------



## tampa8

Because you did not take the time to read what you were buying you're warning people? It couldn't be any clearer on their site. What did you think $10 was getting you? Here is what you saw but did not take the time to read.

*Networks You Are Currently Eligible To Purchase* 
If the table column below indicates that you are eligible, then the Distant Network is available once your order is processed. If the column says "Waiver Needed", we can submit a waiver on your behalf, to your local affiliate, asking for permission for you to activate Distant Networks which can take up to 35 days. We will only bill for the eligible networks at this time. NOTE: There is a processing fee for waivers.
*Network* *Description* *Waiver Fee* ABC Not Eligible - Waiver Needed $5.00 CBS Not Eligible - Waiver Needed $5.00 NBC Not Eligible - Waiver Needed $5.00 FOX Not Eligible - Waiver Needed $5.00 BIG 4 Networks Not Eligible - Waiver Needed $20.00

Their service has been great in all the years I have had it.


----------



## sharonmu

tampa8 said:


> Because you did not take the time to read what you were buying you're warning people? It couldn't be any clearer on their site. What did you think $10 was getting you? Here is what you saw but did not take the time to read.
> 
> *Networks You Are Currently Eligible To Purchase*
> If the table column below indicates that you are eligible, then the Distant Network is available once your order is processed. If the column says "Waiver Needed", we can submit a waiver on your behalf, to your local affiliate, asking for permission for you to activate Distant Networks which can take up to 35 days. We will only bill for the eligible networks at this time. NOTE: There is a processing fee for waivers.
> *Network* *Description* *Waiver Fee* ABC Not Eligible - Waiver Needed $5.00 CBS Not Eligible - Waiver Needed $5.00 NBC Not Eligible - Waiver Needed $5.00 FOX Not Eligible - Waiver Needed $5.00 BIG 4 Networks Not Eligible - Waiver Needed $20.00
> 
> Their service has been great in all the years I have had it.


Its kindly weird they did this. I've been sick & not feeling good but i talked to all american direct. And all i have to do is have satellite 119 to get it and they will automatically add them. They said on the phone i was able to receive East & West of all networks what they have changed is paying every 6 months or auto bill pay which i hate.


----------



## sharonmu

But it could be cause in my area if i had time warner i have subchannels from 2 locations. So maybe that's the difference if your in a big city you have to have a waiver


----------



## James Long

People who are within the predicted coverage area of a network station must get a waiver from all stations of that network that "cover" their location. You're more likely to be in the predicted coverage area if you're in "the big city" a few miles from the transmit towers than if you live deep in the country away from the TV stations.


----------



## SeaBeagle

Because you did not take the time to read what you were buying you're warning people? It couldn't be any clearer on their site. What did you think $10 was getting you? Here is what you saw but did not take the time to read.

Networks You Are Currently Eligible To Purchase 
If the table column below indicates that you are eligible, then the Distant Network is available once your order is processed. If the column says "Waiver Needed", we can submit a waiver on your behalf, to your local affiliate, asking for permission for you to activate Distant Networks which can take up to 35 days. We will only bill for the eligible networks at this time. NOTE: There is a processing fee for waivers.
Network Description Waiver Fee ABC Not Eligible - Waiver Needed $5.00 CBS Not Eligible - Waiver Needed $5.00 NBC Not Eligible - Waiver Needed $5.00 FOX Not Eligible - Waiver Needed $5.00 BIG 4 Networks Not Eligible - Waiver Needed $20.00

Their service has been great in all the years I have had it.


True but, now ther monies come from their 10.00 charges.


----------



## James Long

SeaBeagle said:


> True but, now ther monies come from their 10.00 charges.


If you end up getting your waivers you can pay for the actual channels.
Unfortunately AAD must follow the law.


----------



## Jim5506

SeaBeagle said:


> All American Direct does not want any new customers but, they like our money. I contacted All American Direct on the pho e to order the distant TV stations offered. I was told by the receptionist this can only be done on he Internet. I thought fine. So I did that. I chose the channels that I want to order. Then I was asked for my credit card number and was charged ten dollars. I thought great I have all the distant networks offered. Well.....I looked on guide and saw these channels did not show up. So I checked my order status on the All American Direct web page. I knew then that I was scammed. On the order it read that I purchased some paper called a waver. I did not order that. I ordered channels. Do NOT get scammed out of ten dollars on All Americans Webpage like I did. That company makes its monies by charging peeps 10.00 and gives one nothing. At least the scam was only ten dollars.


Did you contest the charge with your credit card company?


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## SeaBeagle

Did you contest the charge with your credit card company?


No, but I will. I live far from the bank. The next time I am in town I will.


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## Jim5506

Perhaps can do it over the phone or on line also.


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## SeaBeagle

Perhaps can do it over the phone or on line also.
I should because I will not be near the bank for awhile .


----------



## sharonmu

Finally i spoke to someone about the superstations. Which i'm really fine just having wwor. Because i would prefer METV & ANTENNA TV maybe one day dish will add them in all areas. I can't get with a over the air antenna.

But at least people still wanting the superstations. And felt like they should've gave us all the option to buy before the 19th of september.

Customer Feedback
[email protected]


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## James Long

sharonmu said:


> And felt like they should've gave us all the option to buy before the 19th of september.


We all had the option to buy ... but it was not advertised that the option would go away.
DISH informed their retailers. Some of the retailers informed the Internet.
It was short notice but we had a thread here for almost two weeks.

We still don't know the long term future for Superstations. DISH is not required to offer them and other providers don't. Perhaps this is just a way of stopping people from subscribing before the channels are removed completely as superstations. I do not expect them to last forever. And advertising "sign up now while you still can" for something that is going away completely would be considered misleading.


----------



## FTA Michael

I'm with you, JL. I'll be stunned if the Supers are still available in 2015. I'll be mildly surprised if they're still there on Jan. 1, 2014.


----------



## sharonmu

James Long said:


> We all had the option to buy ... but it was not advertised that the option would go away.
> DISH informed their retailers. Some of the retailers informed the Internet.
> It was short notice but we had a thread here for almost two weeks.
> 
> We still don't know the long term future for Superstations. DISH is not required to offer them and other providers don't. Perhaps this is just a way of stopping people from subscribing before the channels are removed completely as superstations. I do not expect them to last forever. And advertising "sign up now while you still can" for something that is going away completely would be considered misleading.


I know this. That's even what i said on dish. This place has better news then dish network. But i didn't find out about this place til the 20th Its horrible dish's site. Doesn't give anyone news before happening They should be paying you all for this great site. MUCH BETTER THEN DISH EVER WAS. What i don't understand is why all american direct. On the 28th. I'll have all the major networks but no option for a extra CW network. Directv has 2 CW"s east & west. I had it plus the CBS E&W. and was told don't ever remove these you won't get them back. And i told them i prefered the superstations. The thing i guess that i liked about the superstations. Even though now there's alot of mirrors of the same shows. At least if you miss one time. you can have another option to watch it. I'm almost wondering if there scared that its going to get like The distant nets we're that they would have to remove them all if its due to congress. We'll the government is closed how would they know if a customer service rep gave them to us. Sharon


----------



## sharonmu

Also one more thing If your in a small town and you got 2 different locals. Cincy & Lexington if i was with the cable can you get 2 different Local Stations Like from lexington & Cincinatti. If i pay 6.00 more if i could i would forget All american. Let me know if this is something that can be done. sharon


----------



## James Long

It cannot be done under current laws. Superstations are still legal, but getting out of market stations is only permitted if your in market affiliates of those stations give permission.


----------



## SeaBeagle

I know this. That's even what i said on dish. This place has better news then dish network. But i didn't find out about this place til the 20th Its horrible dish's site. Doesn't give anyone news before happening They should be paying you all for this great site. MUCH BETTER THEN DISH EVER WAS. What i don't understand is why all american direct. On the 28th. I'll have all the major networks but no option for a extra CW network. Directv has 2 CW"s east & west. I had it plus the CBS E&W. and was told don't ever remove these you won't get them back. And i told them i prefered the superstations. The thing i guess that i liked about the superstations. Even though now there's alot of mirrors of the same shows. At least if you miss one time. you can have another option to watch it. I'm almost wondering if there scared that its going to get like The distant nets we're that they would have to remove them all if its due to congress. We'll the government is closed how would they know if a customer service rep gave them to us. Sharon


The above is very true. That is how I found out and subscribed before the deadline.


----------



## SeaBeagle

It cannot be done under current laws. Superstations are still legal, but getting out of market stations is only permitted if your in market affiliates of those stations give permission.


That law needs to be ruled unconstitutional. Subscribes should be able to get any stations they want. Some laws are completely idiotic.


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## James Long

SeaBeagle said:


> That law needs to be ruled unconstitutional. Subscribes should be able to get any stations they want. Some laws are completely idiotic.


You still have not identified where in the constitution the right you claim resides! It cannot be unconstitutional unless it violates the constitution.


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## tampa8

Very similar to driving laws and unlike Gun laws, it's not considered a right, more a privilege.


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## joshjr

SeaBeagle said:


> That law needs to be ruled unconstitutional. Subscribes should be able to get any stations they want. Some laws are completely idiotic.


You say that because you are not the owner of a local affiliate. You count on being local to a specific area. Your news is centered on that and usually sports too. The advertising money you make is based on local people seeing local adds. Why would anyone need out of market sports packages if this were allowed? Also how would any provider (including DirecTV) every have the room to make every local channel a national channel? Never gonna happen!


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## tampa8

My only gripe is the escalating money being exhorted, uh demanded, by the affiliates to be carried by Cable and Satellite. They must provide OTA free because of their protection from other affiliates, same should apply to being carried on Cable. The affiliate has as much to gain by being in vastly more homes as does the Cable/Satellite carrier to have them in the packages. There should be a minimum charge as currently exists with DISH and DIRECT to get them. If the Affiliate would like to charge more, they should lose the right to be the only network in the DMA on the Satellite/Cable.


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## SeaBeagle

It is interesting to see how many peeps in here want their Superstations then again are all for the law against the selling out of market TV stations to subscribers.


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## James Long

SeaBeagle said:


> It is interesting to see how many peeps in here want their Superstations then again are all for the law against the selling out of market TV stations to subscribers.


It isn't about being for or against the law it is stating the facts as they exist today, October 16th, 2013.

What about the law were you were saying was unconstitutional again? Have you found the reference in the constitution?


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## SeaBeagle

It isn't about being for or against the law it is stating the facts as they exist today, October 16th, 2013.

What about the law were you were saying was unconstitutional again? Have you found the reference in the constitution?


Maybe not but should be.


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## tampa8

SeaBeagle said:


> It is interesting to see how many peeps in here want their Superstations then again are all for the law against the selling out of market TV stations to subscribers.


I'm not certain you understand difference. To begin with, Superstations have nothing at all to do with Network affiliates and Distants. They are in a different class of carriage. In fact they are specifically allowed to be carried nationwide unless a competing channel with the same program objects. Networks are the opposite, you are not allowed to carry an out of market one, unless they agree.
And yes, unless you want to pay for a decoder box and higher fees to receive network channels OTA just like Cable channels are, or much higher fees on Satellite/Cable then you too should be in favor of the protection affiliates have. It actually has been consumer friendly where money is concerned. What is missing is an avenue where the locals still get money for lost ad revenue when someone gets a Distant affiliate. As I posted, if they want more money that changes the agreement, then protection should be gone and we should be able to choose. But it won't be cheap.


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## david_jr

James Long said:


> It cannot be done under current laws. Superstations are still legal, but getting out of market stations is only permitted if your in market affiliates of those stations give permission.


James I think what Sharon was referring to is the ability of Cable systems to provide "significantly viewed" affiliates in addition to a DMA's own affiliates. This practice is common among cable systems, but hasn't been allowed on DISH until recently and I'm still not really sure if anyone is getting significantly viewed on DISH anywhere that I'm aware of. I gather through reading sites like this that D* does offer significantly viewed in places but don't have firsthand knowledge. But, bottom line, it is pretty common with cable systems. As an example, where I live in Western Mass we are considered in the Albany, NY DMA (about 40 miles west of here) and on DISH I am elegible for no in-state LIL channels. While my neighbors just to the north of me in Bennington, VT (about 15 miles north of here) are in the same Albany DMA they are able to have at least one in-state LIL channel thanks to Sen. Leahy writing VT specifically into the new STELA law to receive at least one in-state LIL channel. Now just to my east in towns that have cable (TWC) they are able in addition to Albany DMA to receive LIL from both Springfield, MA and Boston, MA I believe under the provision of "significantly viewed." I'm not a lawyer (obvious I know) but this seems utterly unfair and should violate some equal protection clause somewhere (again not a lawyer).


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## James Long

david_jr said:


> It cannot be done under current laws. Superstations are still legal, but getting out of market stations is only permitted if your in market affiliates of those stations give permission.
> 
> 
> 
> James I think what Sharon was referring to is the ability of Cable systems to provide "significantly viewed" affiliates in addition to a DMA's own affiliates. This practice is common among cable systems, but hasn't been allowed on DISH until recently and I'm still not really sure if anyone is getting significantly viewed on DISH anywhere that I'm aware of. I gather through reading sites like this that D* does offer significantly viewed in places but don't have firsthand knowledge. But, bottom line, it is pretty common with cable systems.
Click to expand...

Significantly viewed is a big mess ... but the end of what I wrote still applies. Getting out of market stations is only permitted if your in market affiliates of those stations give permission.

There is too much difference between the cable and satellite laws. I was happy to see significantly viewed stations added to satellite law - but Congress created a situation where the permissions granted to satellite cable is not the same as the permissions granted to cable carriage.

With cable carriage a certain percentage of channels must be set aside for local broadcasters. Once that quota is met the cable company does not have to add more. Most cable companies have enough channels that all qualified local channels get carriage. A channel gets carried on cable by being receivable where the cable system exists. But there was a problem ... some stations had significant viewership in a cable company's area and couldn't get carriage. So Congress wrote a law that defined significant viewership and now if a station can show that a legally defined significant number of viewers watches their station they can force their way on to a cable system. The flaw on the list is that a station doesn't need to be defined as significantly viewed if they are already carried.

Congress took that list and misused it for satellite. Cable carried stations that are not on the list don't get the benefit of being significantly viewed. Congress also reversed the value of the list ... instead of a significantly viewed station forcing carriage it grants the power to the satellite carrier to offer carriage. A significantly viewed station does not need to be carried. And since significantly viewed can be defined as a county or smaller area, not the entire DMA, it is easier not to carry the channels.

I'd like to see something that is equal to cable ... while it is easier for DISH and DirecTV to manage just over 200 market areas and not be forced to be more granular the cable approach of "if you should be able to receive it over the air it should be on your service" should be followed. If I am in one market and am predicted receive another market's OTA signals I should be able to receive those signals via satellite.

As far as the current situation - There are a few stations that are carried as SV on DISH. Others are carried under the distant laws. The "same channel lineup for the entire market" policy has limited SV carriage and in some cases distants have been used instead of the SV when a network is missing.

It is complicated ... but there should be some way to make it simple without trampling too hard on the rights of the stations.


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## SeaBeagle

In ROKU out of market channels are shown. But these are not as good as looking at these channels on satellite TV. Plus these channels only shows the news and when there is a break there is nothing on the screen except a note reading "We will be right back." who wants to stare at that for like forever. Or there might be a live shot of outside if the studio which is just as boring.


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## SeaBeagle

I'm not certain you understand difference. To begin with, Superstations have nothing at all to do with Network affiliates and Distants. They are in a different class of carriage. In fact they are specifically allowed to be carried nationwide unless a competing channel with the same program objects. Networks are the opposite, you are not allowed to carry an out of market one, unless they agree.
And yes, unless you want to pay for a decoder box and higher fees to receive network channels OTA just like Cable channels are, or much higher fees on Satellite/Cable then you too should be in favor of the protection affiliates have. It actually has been consumer friendly where money is concerned. What is missing is an avenue where the locals still get money for lost ad revenue when someone gets a Distant affiliate. As I posted, if they want more money that changes the agreement, then protection should be gone and we should be able to choose. But it won't be cheap.


What is a decider box? How much are the subscriptions to the provider on these boxes?


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## tampa8

You mean decoder box? It's what DISH or most any carrier uses, it's the box that receives the scrambled or decoded signal. If you want to end the law that prohibits you from choosing your affiliate, the Networks would most likely then scramble their OTA signal and charge you to watch. Don't believe me? Look up the dispute with Aereo.


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## SeaBeagle

You mean decoder box? It's what DISH or most any carrier uses, it's the box that receives the scrambled or decoded signal. If you want to end the law that prohibits you from choosing your affiliate, the Networks would most likely then scramble their OTA signal and charge you to watch. Don't believe me? Look up the dispute with Aereo.


Does DISH network have these? I never saw those advertised.


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## James Long

SeaBeagle said:


> Does DISH network have these? I never saw those advertised.


Decoder boxes are not currently needed for OTA ... just regular ATSC tuners. tampa8 was suggesting that if one could choose their own affiliates nationwide that local stations would scramble their programs and a decoder would then be needed (although current laws require at least one unscrambled feed per broadcast channel).

The problem with the "end the law" plea is there is no law that prohibits carriage of out of market stations ... the laws on the books are PERMISSIVE, allowing carriage under certain circumstances. End the laws and the only way local stations would be carried would be individual agreements between the carrier and each station. People would receive less stations without laws ... not more.


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## SeaBeagle

There should be a way for providers to sell any market to anyone no what market the reside in.


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## KyL416

SeaBeagle said:


> There should be a way for providers to sell any market to anyone no what market the reside in.


Sure, if you want to overhaul the entire network TV model. Including the money the stations pay for rights to their programming (both syndicated and network), as well as the regional coverage used for NFL, MLB and NCAA games. Then you have other existing rules like syndex that allows the local station to blackout programming on any out of market stations that would need to be thrown out. Take a look at some ad sales articles and see how much a 30 second local spot for things like the Super Bowl, the World Series, awards shows or major finales that still get high numbers like American Idol go for. Good luck getting any local advertiser to continue to pay that much for a spot if there's no longer any guarantee that the local viewers they are trying to target are watching the event on your station. Even if they try to balance it out by making out of market stations a premium to compensate the local station for lost viewership, that doesn't help the local business who's multimillion dollar Super Bowl ad buy isn't being seen locally.

Even if all that gets thrown out, and somehow the network TV model survives since the local stations will not pay as much as they do now if they no longer have exclusive rights to their programming, as well as the smaller stations not owned by a conglomerate that can help absorb the lost revenue and will likely go under leaving no local news for many small to midsized markets, you have the technical hurdles. Not only do spot beams prevent locals from being received across the country, they also allow Dish and DirecTV to reuse the same frequencies in different parts of the country. There's currently 1773 licensed full powered stations, if you want to bring Class A stations into it that's another 416 stations. I'm not familiar with how many HD channels Dish packs on each transponder, but for a random average number let's say 8, the average satellite has 32 ku band transponders, that's only 256 channels. You would need to devote at least 8 satellites for a system where all locals are available nationally. Good luck finding enough slots for that in a space that is already crowded since in addition to Dish and DirecTV, other slots are taken up by other domestic and foreign use. (I believe Dish is actually leasing space from Canada's Bell TV to cover a portion of their eastern arc) And even if you somehow manage to find space for that, you would likely need multiple dishes to get it all since they would need to use every possible free space from 61 to 160 to cover it all, which would also create new line of site problems since for much of the country some of those slots need a clear shot of the horizon.


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## sharonmu

SeaBeagle said:


> There should be a way for providers to sell any market to anyone no what market the reside in.


I hope this is a okay post. Directv does offer neighboring local tv stations. And i found one area on Dish that offers them. here's the zip code for dish that offers them
05201 look up locals with this zip on dish and you'll see there getting neighboring locals ( Significantly_viewed_out_of_market_TV_stations)
Directv has tons of them.
This site ROCKS!! sharon
I just wish i had joined before superstations went away. And would be happy right now

here's what they get
Albany, NY - ABC (WTEN)
Albany, NY - CBS (WRGB)
Albany, NY - CW (WCWN)
Albany, NY - FOX (WXXA)
Albany, NY - ION (WYPX)
Albany, NY - MNT (WNYA)
Albany, NY - NBC (WNYT)
Albany, NY - PBS (WMHT)
Burlington, VT - ABC (WVNY)
Burlington, VT - CBS (WCAX)
Burlington, VT - FOX (WFFF)
Burlington, VT - NBC (WNNE)
Burlington, VT - NBC (WPTZ)


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## SeaBeagle

I hope this is a okay post. Directv does offer neighboring local tv stations. And i found one area on Dish that offers them. here's the zip code for dish that offers them
05201 look up locals with this zip on dish and you'll see there getting neighboring locals ( Significantly_viewed_out_of_market_TV_stations)
Directv has tons of them.
This site ROCKS!! sharon
I just wish i had joined before superstations went away. And would be happy right now

here's what they get
Albany, NY - ABC (WTEN)
Albany, NY - CBS (WRGB)
Albany, NY - CW (WCWN)
Albany, NY - FOX (WXXA)
Albany, NY - ION (WYPX)
Albany, NY - MNT (WNYA)
Albany, NY - NBC (WNYT)
Albany, NY - PBS (WMHT)
Burlington, VT - ABC (WVNY)
Burlington, VT - CBS (WCAX)
Burlington, VT - FOX (WFFF)
Burlington, VT - NBC (WNNE)
Burlington, VT - NBC (WPTZ)


I am no where near that location. So 05201 would not help. Thank you anyway.


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## sharonmu

We'll i just talked with AAD(all american direct) they tried to get the superstations package and dish wants too much money for them. Also they told me which doesn't make any since that Dish the reason they removed them( not selling anymore) was because all the channels wanted too much money to continue selling them. Which makes no sense cause they still have them. And also get this one i was wrong i didn't remove them i called in to remove WSBK and they removed them all except WWOR. i can't get them back either. I did find a great site for those of you that are like me and can't get all of your locals due to being to far away. Which doesn't help me they won't sell any market unless your payment verifys your zip code or you ip address is right. But at least die hard fans of all locals or being able to get METV & ANTENNA TV. maybe this will help those
https://www.aereo.com/


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## SeaBeagle

We'll i just talked with AAD(all american direct) they tried to get the superstations package and dish wants too much money for them. Also they told me which doesn't make any since that Dish the reason they removed them( not selling anymore) was because all the channels wanted too much money to continue selling them. Which makes no sense cause they still have them. And also get this one i was wrong i didn't remove them i called in to remove WSBK and they removed them all except WWOR. i can't get them back either. I did find a great site for those of you that are like me and can't get all of your locals due to being to far away. Which doesn't help me they won't sell any market unless your payment verifys your zip code or you ip address is right. But at least die hard fans of all locals or being able to get METV & ANTENNA TV. maybe this will help those
https://www.aereo.com/

That company Aereo keeps emailing to start an account. So twice I attempted that. Because Aereo does not like me credit cards billing address I can not sign up.


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## James Long

sharonmu said:


> We'll i just talked with AAD(all american direct) they tried to get the superstations package and dish wants too much money for them. Also they told me which doesn't make any since that Dish the reason they removed them( not selling anymore) was because all the channels wanted too much money to continue selling them. Which makes no sense cause they still have them. And also get this one i was wrong i didn't remove them i called in to remove WSBK and they removed them all except WWOR. i can't get them back either. I did find a great site for those of you that are like me and can't get all of your locals due to being to far away. Which doesn't help me they won't sell any market unless your payment verifys your zip code or you ip address is right. But at least die hard fans of all locals or being able to get METV & ANTENNA TV. maybe this will help those
> https://www.aereo.com/


DISH does not pay superstations for their signals. They are carried under a statutory license arrangement where DISH pays into a fund and copyright holders (stations and programming) make claims against the fund for payment. The channels CANNOT demand more money for carriage from DISH as they are not paid as a channel by DISH!


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## scooper

But James - can't they ask for compensation as their "Local" channel ?

I'll admit - the "Superstations" are in a sort of legal black hole.


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## James Long

scooper said:


> But James - can't they ask for compensation as their "Local" channel ?


I believe that is the goal for the suits against Aereo ... but the question I was answering was superstation specific.


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## FTA Michael

(Putting on hip waders)

It was my understanding that the Superstation payments went to a pool to pay the content providers (syndicators et al), not the broadcasters. Remember that the law was established waaay back when nobody paid significant retransmission money to local stations.

I think scooter was saying that when it's time to negotiate WSBK's Boston LIL retransmission consent payment, the station could tie in a request to get paid for all those Supers subs.

Aereo's major drawback is that even if you've got a credit card with a local address, you still can't watch it unless your IP is in the local market. This means that normal, legitimate Aereo subs can't watch TV from an out-of-town hotel room. If you really want to read more about it, you can read my Aereo experience here: http://www.ftablog.com/2013/08/13/my-nyc-visit-with-aereo/ In sum, it's not a good Superstation alternative.


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## James Long

FTA Michael said:


> I think scooter was saying that when it's time to negotiate WSBK's Boston LIL retransmission consent payment, the station could tie in a request to get paid for all those Supers subs.


A station may ask for anything ... whether they get it or not is another issue.
Legally DISH does not have to ask WSBK or any other superstation's permission to be retransmitted as a superstation and you are correct about the pool payments for the statutory license. The only way the station could get paid would be if they had a claim against the statutory license fund.

Refusing to allow their station to be carried in their own local market is where the station has leverage. Would WSBK refuse to be aired to Boston subscribers without compensation for national Superstation subscribers? That could end up with WSBK aired to everyone except the Boston market.



FTA Michael said:


> Aereo's major drawback is that even if you've got a credit card with a local address, you still can't watch it unless your IP is in the local market. This means that normal, legitimate Aereo subs can't watch TV from an out-of-town hotel room. If you really want to read more about it, you can read my Aereo experience here: http://www.ftablog.com/2013/08/13/my-nyc-visit-with-aereo/ In sum, it's not a good Superstation alternative.


I don't know why Aereo is so focused on in market delivery ... they seem to say that the law does not apply to them in market. But there is a law that would apply to them out of market?

If I set up my Sling equipment and connected it to an OTA tuner there would be no geographic limitation for where I could receive the signal ... and it would be legal under the personal use exemptions to copyright law (my encoder in my home encoding content I receive there ... not a company doing the receiving on my behalf).

(Some day I should try to poke a hole in the firewall and connect to my HD Homerun from outside.)


----------



## SeaBeagle

FTA Michael said:


> (Putting on hip waders)
> 
> It was my understanding that the Superstation payments went to a pool to pay the content providers (syndicators et al), not the broadcasters. Remember that the law was established waaay back when nobody paid significant retransmission money to local stations.
> 
> I think scooter was saying that when it's time to negotiate WSBK's Boston LIL retransmission consent payment, the station could tie in a request to get paid for all those Supers subs.
> 
> Aereo's major drawback is that even if you've got a credit card with a local address, you still can't watch it unless your IP is in the local market. This means that normal, legitimate Aereo subs can't watch TV from an out-of-town hotel room. If you really want to read more about it, you can read my Aereo experience here: http://www.ftablog.com/2013/08/13/my-nyc-visit-with-aereo/ In sum, it's not a good Superstation alternative.


Aereo to me does not want to survive with all these ideas of the IP address and credit card address. I do not think I would even care if the company closes. It would be their own fault.


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## inkahauts

Aereo to me dies not want to survive with all these ideas of the IP address and credit card address. I do not think I would even care if the company closes. It would be their own fault.


If they don't like your billing address ten it's not in the area that you are trying to subscribe service for and therefore your likely trying to grab service for an area you are not in which would be illegal. Is your billing address in the same zip code as your living address? Are they the same address or different addresses?


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## James Long

inkahauts said:


> If they don't like your billing address ten it's not in the area that you are trying to subscribe service for and therefore your likely trying to grab service for an area you are not in which would be illegal.


Aereo seems to be making up their own laws ... if their theory is separate antennas, tuners and DVRs working independently of each other is not rebroadcast as defined by law what law is preventing Aereo from transmitting the signal anywhere? It seems funny that they are apparently strictly following laws that apply to cable and satellite while claiming that similar laws that apply to cable and satellite do not apply.


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## inkahauts

Good point. But... Reminds me of the question of sling... One small cavet there IMHO that is why they are sticking to this policy. Even if you have and use sling, you have to have a TV location in the proper DMA and collect it from a source in that DMA, so it could be that they are making sure you have a location in the proper DMA that should be able to get that source in the first place without their service, before letting lose.

That actually makes some sense to me. Of course sling you don't have to prove anything because its fully controlled and maintained by the customer, but as a business, they probably want to Verify that they customers are not circumventing DMA rules. They believe they are not doing so with their tech because there tech is simply moving where the DVR and antenna are located in the dma, and they are not changing how it's used in someone's home in that DMA. Not checking people locations would be changing that though.

I actually like that argument and is part of the reason I have always felt that it should be illegal for any over the air channel to ask for money from cable and sat companies for retrans deals as long as everything is done within the rules of what can be broadcast where inside each DMA.


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## James Long

I can't follow that logic. It is like saying that it is OK for them to help steal from the Walmart in your home town but they won't help you steal from the Walmart out of state. Aereo will, for a fee, help customers take the signals of OTA stations without compensating the local stations for rebroadcast. Cable and satellite companies could make the same argument that they are only delivering the channels to people who are entitled to receive them OTA. Only the technology differs.

But I digress ... there are other threads for Aereo.


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## SeaBeagle

I can't follow that logic. It is like saying that it is OK for them to help steal from the Walmart in your home town but they won't help you steal from the Walmart out of state. Aereo will, for a fee, help customers take the signals of OTA stations without compensating the local stations for rebroadcast. Cable and satellite companies could make the same argument that they are only delivering the channels to people who are entitled to receive them OTA. Only the technology differs.

But I digress ... there are other threads for Aereo.


How do I get Aereo to do that for me?


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## sharonmu

Is there a topic yet about All American Direct closing operations on February 25th 2014. Please let me know. What else is dish going to take away from us. And i'm paid up til April Is this enough of a reason to cancel dish.


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## Jim5506

Dish has nothing to do with AAD, except for leasing the transponder space on the satellite to them.

Dish is not taking away your Distant Networks AAD is going out of business.

Some may argue that Dish should have sold the transponder space to them at a lower price, but...


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## mwdxer

I'm a bit late in adding my comments, but like others, one of the main reasons I picked up Dish back in 1999 was because they carried the supers. Infact, I started watching KTLA's news on a feed on my big dish back in 1985. Then in 1986, the supers were added. I had them for years with my big dish. We even got KTVR Denver and another out of Ft Worth Texas for a time. Later that station went to a network. So I have watched them since the beginning. As mentioned earlier, the Roku carries a lot of news from many TV stations, but not KTLA as yet. KTTV 11 LA is now available on the Roku and many TV stations do have their live news and news on demand,. For those news hounds out there, like me, adding the Roku has bdeen great. Look up Nowhere TV for more additional TV stations. I hope Dish keeps the Supers. I have never dropped them and I never will.


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## Paul Secic

Lucky you!


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## mwdxer

If a person has wifi in their house a Roku LT is only $50 online and it is an amazing little box. I have added over 300 free channels. It is a nice addition to Dish,. I don't see it replacing Dish as the Roku has different stuff on it just like my big dish has. But it is a nice add-on. Dish also has services on the Roku, international services like Dish World. But I hope the Supers stay around for a long time.

Patrick


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## SeaBeagle

mwdxer said:


> I'm a bit late in adding my comments, but like others, one of the main reasons I picked up Dish back in 1999 was because they carried the supers. Infact, I started watching KTLA's news on a feed on my big dish back in 1985. Then in 1986, the supers were added. I had them for years with my big dish. We even got KTVR Denver and another out of Ft Worth Texas for a time. Later that station went to a network. So I have watched them since the beginning. As mentioned earlier, the Roku carries a lot of news from many TV stations, but not KTLA as yet. KTTV 11 LA is now available on the Roku and many TV stations do have their live news and news on demand,. For those news hounds out there, like me, adding the Roku has bdeen great. Look up Nowhere TV for more additional TV stations. I hope Dish keeps the Supers. I have never dropped them and I never will.


Dish cancelled the superstations so there is no reason to hope DISH keeps them.

Sent from my iPad 4 128GB using DBSTalk mobile app


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## James Long

Superstations are grandfathered ... if you have them, you can keep them (for now). For those who get some benefit from the channels they can hope that they will not go away,


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## SeaBeagle

I still can not figure out why can not peeps look at any given out of market TV stations.

Look at radio. One can listen to any radio station in the country that uses the internet.

Why should TV be different?


Sent from my iPad 4 128GB using DBSTalk mobile app


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## KyL416

SeaBeagle said:


> I still can not figure out why can not peeps look at any given out of market TV stations.
> 
> Look at radio. One can listen to any radio station in the country that uses the internet.
> 
> Why should TV be different?


On radio most of the content originates locally, even syndicated shows like Seacrest, Elvis Duran and others have different playlists for each station. There's also a lot of content that can't be streamed. When Howard Stern was on FM they weren't allowed to stream him, a lot of sports play by play cannot be streamed, there's a syndicated Sinatra show that can't be streamed because of the royalties the Sinatra family charges for his music, and it costs an arm and a leg if a station wants the streaming rights to talk shows like Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and Glenn Beck so only the stations owned by a conglomerate like Clear Channel, Townsquare and CBS stream them while the smaller broadcasters black them out.

On TV, outside of the news and the occasional public affairs programming, everything is either from the network or syndicated and given to local stations exclusively for their market, the only thing "local" is designated local ad breaks. The big money comes from major events that are guaranteed to get high ratings like the Super Bowl, awards shows, finales of shows like Big Brother, Survivor and Idol, the NBA Finals, etc. What local advertiser is going to pay millions for a 30 second ad spot during the Super Bowl if there's no longer a guarantee that everyone in the local area will be watching it on that station?


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## mwdxer

More and more "local" TV stations are streaming their news and Roku has quite a few. But that is where it ends. It is only their local news, weather, sports.


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## SeaBeagle

KyL416 said:


> On radio most of the content originates locally, even syndicated shows like Seacrest, Elvis Duran and others have different playlists for each station. There's also a lot of content that can't be streamed. When Howard Stern was on FM they weren't allowed to stream him, a lot of sports play by play cannot be streamed, there's a syndicated Sinatra show that can't be streamed because of the royalties the Sinatra family charges for his music, and it costs an arm and a leg if a station wants the streaming rights to talk shows like Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and Glenn Beck so only the stations owned by a conglomerate like Clear Channel, Townsquare and CBS stream them while the smaller broadcasters black them out.
> 
> On TV, outside of the news and the occasional public affairs programming, everything is either from the network or syndicated and given to local stations exclusively for their market, the only thing "local" is designated local ad breaks. The big money comes from major events that are guaranteed to get high ratings like the Super Bowl, awards shows, finales of shows like Big Brother, Survivor and Idol, the NBA Finals, etc. What local advertiser is going to pay millions for a 30 second ad spot during the Super Bowl if there's no longer a guarantee that everyone in the local area will be watching it on that station?


I hear shows like Rush Limburger and Sean Hennity on streamed radio stations.

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## KyL416

SeaBeagle said:


> I hear shows like Rush Limburger and Sean Hennity on streamed radio stations.


Did you miss this part of the post:


> it costs an arm and a leg if a station wants the streaming rights to talk shows like Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and Glenn Beck so only the stations owned by a conglomerate like Clear Channel, Townsquare and CBS stream them while the smaller broadcasters black them out.


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## Slamminc11

SeaBeagle said:


> I hear shows like Rush Limburger and Sean Hennity on streamed radio stations.
> 
> Sent from my iPad 4 128GB using DBSTalk mobile app


I'm so sorry!


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## SeaBeagle

Slamminc11 said:


> I'm so sorry!


I do not listen to the shows. But, know these are available. Booooooooring shows.

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## James Long

*Stick to discussing the Superstations. Further off topic comments are subject to removal.*


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## SeaBeagle

James Long said:


> *Stick to discussing the Superstations. Further off topic comments are subject to removal.*


I started the off topic by asking about radio stations. Found my answer. Now back to Superstations.

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## dish556

why have a dish if you can't get out of market channels what is the point of having a dish really?


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## KyL416

dish556 said:


> why have a dish if you can't get out of market channels what is the point of having a dish really?


If you mean compared to the local cable company...

- Areas without cable service
- Areas with a long neglected cable system that has yet to upgrade to digital and/or HD (yes even in 2014 they exist)
- A rate better than what your local cable system charges in some cases
- Having channels you want that the other area providers don't have (i.e. Pac 12)
- Hardware being better than some other providers (i.e. DirecTV's Genie or Dish's Hopper compared to the generic Scientific Atlanta interface that still displays most menus in a 4:3 window)
- Low cost packages that just have the highest rated channels on cable like USA, FX, TBS, TNT, MTV, Disney and Nickelodeon
- Different channel packages where Dish or DirecTV may have a channel you watch on a lower tier while the local cable system has it on a much higher tier like Digital Plus
- The numerous international packages that are very rare on cable unless you live in an area with a large ethnic community


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## Slamminc11

dish556 said:


> why have a dish if you can't get out of market channels what is the point of having a dish really?


Seriously!?!?


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## SeaBeagle

dish556 said:


> why have a dish if you can't get out of market channels what is the point of having a dish really?


This is a great point. I agree. I would pay extra for out of market local channels.

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## SeaBeagle

Slamminc11 said:


> Seriously!?!?


Hope so. That is a great comment.

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## shadough

Ugh, dont remind me. This will be the my 1st football season of this century, this fall, where I wont be able to watch additional games on distant network channels. It is going to suq.


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## inkahauts

SeaBeagle said:


> Hope so. That is a great comment.
> 
> Sent from my iPad 4 128GB using DBSTalk mobile app


Actually it makes no sense at all to me. You get a dish for service as you would a cable company, only dish and DIRECTV both offer more in sports packages and such and generally speaking and are both more reliable than many cable companies, especially in my area on both service and pq. Out of market locals isn't even a thought.


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## Slamminc11

SeaBeagle said:


> Hope so. That is a great comment.
> 
> Sent from my iPad 4 128GB using DBSTalk mobile app


Why buy a car unless you are going to be driving out of town? That makes as much since.


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## Jim5506

The Federal Government at the behest of the National Association of Broadcasters says "Thou Shalt Not View out of market local channels".

So what's your problem, if the government says so it must be good - right?

TV station owners invest millions of dollars for a monopoly on your viewing and you don't like it, what's wrong with you?


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## James Long

Jim5506 said:


> The Federal Government at the behest of the National Association of Broadcasters says "Thou Shalt Not View out of market local channels".


Mostly the stations and the NAB saying NO and the government saying "we override their NO in these specific circumstances". The owners of a product have decided how they wish to distribute their product and the government is saying that it is too restrictive and providing exceptions to the owner's wishes.


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## Paul Secic

Jim5506 said:


> The Federal Government at the behest of the National Association of Broadcasters says "Thou Shalt Not View out of market local channels".
> 
> So what's your problem, if the government says so it must be good - right?
> 
> TV station owners invest millions of dollars for a monopoly on your viewing and you don't like it, what's wrong with you?


I don't like locals.. I'd rather have Superstaions!


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## mwdxer

I sure would not want to lose the Super Stations. I am news fan and I love watching the local News from especially LA & NY. Fortunately there are some TV stations on the Roku that stream their news. I had wondered why Dish did not offer the Supers in HD (KTLA, KWGN, WSBK, WPIX, or WWOR). I hope they get renewed.


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## Paul Secic

mwdxer said:


> I sure would not want to lose the Super Stations. I am news fan and I love watching the local News from especially LA & NY. Fortunately there are some TV stations on the Roku that stream their news. I had wondered why Dish did not offer the Supers in HD (KTLA, KWGN, WSBK, WPIX, or WWOR). I hope they get renewed.


They won't back ever.


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## James Long

The channels are still there for those who had them and have not given them up. I do not expect them to be improved.


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## SeaBeagle

Paul Secic said:


> I don't like locals.. I'd rather have Superstaions!


Super stations are nothing but regular cable or satellite channels. Local channels are much better because you can see what is happening in other places throughout the country. That is if one can subscribe to these stations.

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## SeaBeagle

mwdxer said:


> I sure would not want to lose the Super Stations. I am news fan and I love watching the local News from especially LA & NY. Fortunately there are some TV stations on the Roku that stream their news. I had wondered why Dish did not offer the Supers in HD (KTLA, KWGN, WSBK, WPIX, or WWOR). I hope they get renewed.


DISH does not carry any stations from Los Angeles.

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## SeaBeagle

James Long said:


> The channels are still there for those who had them and have not given them up. I do not expect them to be improved.


Like me as soon as I read the article here about the superstations going away I subscribed to all of them. Well except for WGN. WGN does not like to be called a superstation.

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## James Long

SeaBeagle said:


> DISH does not carry any stations from Los Angeles.


Channel 233 is KTLA and as I type this they are airing KTLA 5 News at 6:00.
KTLA is licensed to Los Angeles and is one of the grandfathered superstations.


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## mwdxer

The Super Stations:

KWGN Denver
KTLA Los Angeles
WSBK Boston
WPIX New York
WWOR New York


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## SeaBeagle

James Long said:


> Channel 233 is KTLA and as I type this they are airing KTLA 5 News at 6:00.
> KTLA is licensed to Los Angeles and is one of the grandfathered superstations.


Sorry I forgot about and that is one of my stations. I stand corrected.

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## tampa8

And the one I probably watch the most.


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## SeaBeagle

DISH used to carry the 4 networks from Los Angeles. Do not know what happened to that.


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## James Long

They lost a lawsuit ... years ago ... and had to discontinue distants. (Superstations are not distants.)

The law was changed allowing DISH to resume delivering distants ... which they did for RV customers and selected stations in "short" markets (markets missing a network affiliate). DISH now only uses distants in "short" markets and do not offer a "NY stations" or "LA stations" distants package.


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## SeaBeagle

Should not only include peeps with campers but all peeps.


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## mwdxer

One interesting thing is the rules must be different in streaming. However, generally the network programming does not stream from a TV station, just the local news. That is the main reason I like the Super Stations is for the news from different areas.


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## James Long

The streaming is generally done by the station ... they have the rights to stream what they stream (otherwise the copyright holders would come down on them). Superstations are carried under a law that supersedes the copyrights, paying copyright holders a statutory rate for the content delivered via satellite.


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## SeaBeagle

mwdxer said:


> One interesting thing is the rules must be different in streaming. However, generally the network programming does not stream from a TV station, just the local news. That is the main reason I like the Super Stations is for the news from different areas.


I agree on that. The only thing when the news programme takes a break there is some nonsence in the screen like "we will be right back". How lame is that?

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## mwdxer

There must be some sort of copyright rules regards running the ads during the newscasts in streaming, as they all cut out the ads.


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## inkahauts

Could be. 

I don't understand why anyone thinks any carrier even has the capacity to offer all locals from every market to everyone. And other than the news there's really no need to for 99.999% since almost all other programming is on local stations already.


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## SeaBeagle

inkahauts said:


> Could be.
> 
> I don't understand why anyone thinks any carrier even has the capacity to offer all locals from every market to everyone. And other than the news there's really no need to for 99.999% since almost all other programming is on local stations already.


Would not take anymore capacity. If that were the case then all subscribers would not be allowed to get stations like The Weather Channel, Bravo just for two example because of the extra captivity. All it takes is to send these stations to the customers receiver.

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## SeaBeagle

mwdxer said:


> There must be some sort of copyright rules regards running the ads during the newscasts in streaming, as they all cut out the ads.


I would think the advertisers would love to see their products seen nationally rather than just locally. Better for more peeps to see then less.

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## James Long

SeaBeagle said:


> Would not take anymore capacity. If that were the case then all subscribers would not be allowed to get stations like The Weather Channel, Bravo just for two example because of the extra captivity. All it takes is to send these stations to the customers receiver.


"All locals from every market to everyone" would require capacity to deliver each and every local in the country to any point in the country. There are thousands of local TV stations across the US ... no company has the capacity to put them all on ConUS beams.

All subscribers can get The Weather Channel and Bravo because there is only one of each of those channels carried.



SeaBeagle said:


> I would think the advertisers would love to see their products seen nationally rather than just locally. Better for more peeps to see then less.


It isn't always up to the advertisers. There are other concerns that must be addressed when streaming to a nationwide and often a world wide audience.


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## mwdxer

Doesn't Dish start from scratch with each spot beam for each city? If that is the case, then why not offer the sub channels with those spot beams? It doesn't sound like it would take that much extra space. If there is already a national feed Dish offers, then there is no reason to offer the sub channel. Like in the case of TBN or Daystar. We get the national feeds so the local channels do not need to be carried. Of course, those are non commercial rel channels. Maybe the distribution of ads on a commercial sub channel may be an issue, but so many of the sub channels offered in markets are non commercial like rel or PBS feeds. Besides that the sub channels are nearly all SD. But again there probably is some copyright issue offering a national feed on a sub channel. In the case of METV, they stream on their website. I have asked them about offering the streaming on the Roku,but I have not heard back. TV offerings are so complicated today.


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## KyL416

METV doesn't provide a live linear stream on their site, they just offer on demand videos of mostly public domain shows. Any live stream of the channel you found is likely from a certain site in the midst of being sued by multiple broadcasters and are currently in contempt of court for continuing to operate despite multiple judgments against them.



James Long said:


> It isn't always up to the advertisers. There are other concerns that must be addressed when streaming to a nationwide and often a world wide audience.


A lot of it is contract and payment related, i.e. the actors appearing in the ads get paid differently if the ad is online vs television. Because of this WatchABC replaces all the ads on the live streams of their O&Os. It's the same reason why when you listen to a radio station online you hear PSAs, promos and digital specific ads instead of the advertisements you would hear over the air.


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## Jim5506

mwdxer said:


> Doesn't Dish start from scratch with each spot beam for each city? If that is the case, then why not offer the sub channels with those spot beams? It doesn't sound like it would take that much extra space. If there is already a national feed Dish offers, then there is no reason to offer the sub channel. Like in the case of TBN or Daystar. We get the national feeds so the local channels do not need to be carried. Of course, those are non commercial rel channels. Maybe the distribution of ads on a commercial sub channel may be an issue, but so many of the sub channels offered in markets are non commercial like rel or PBS feeds. Besides that the sub channels are nearly all SD. But again there probably is some copyright issue offering a national feed on a sub channel. In the case of METV, they stream on their website. I have asked them about offering the streaming on the Roku,but I have not heard back. TV offerings are so complicated today.


Your premise is flawed. each sub channel requires a certain amount of bandwidth on a TP and the satellites in orbit do not have the capacity to cover all of these channels AND a new satellite costs a whole lot of money to design construct and launce into orbit.

Additionally, both Dish and DirecTV are limited in how many orbital slots they can use and the number of TP's at each of these orbital slots.

There are about 212 DMA's in the USA and each of them has a minimum of 3 or 4 stations, each of which can now have up to 6 sub channels. DMAs with large cities have 30 or 40 TV stations and you multiply that by subchannels, say they average 3, that's 90-120 distinct channels that a satellite carrier would have just for that DMA, how many digital channels are there nationwide - there could be a thousand maybe more.

The capacity is just not there.


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## SeaBeagle

Jim5506 said:


> Your premise is flawed. each sub channel requires a certain amount of bandwidth on a TP and the satellites in orbit do not have the capacity to cover all of these channels AND a new satellite costs a whole lot of money to design construct and launce into orbit.
> 
> Additionally, both Dish and DirecTV are limited in how many orbital slots they can use and the number of TP's at each of these orbital slots.
> 
> There are about 212 DMA's in the USA and each of them has a minimum of 3 or 4 stations, each of which can now have up to 6 sub channels. DMAs with large cities have 30 or 40 TV stations and you multiply that by subchannels, say they average 3, that's 90-120 distinct channels that a satellite carrier would have just for that DMA, how many digital channels are there nationwide - there could be a thousand maybe more.
> 
> The capacity is just not there.


See if the satellite companies would let subscribers have any amount of local markets they wanted look at all the new channel options there would be.

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## KyL416

SeaBeagle said:


> See if the satellite companies would let subscribers have any amount of local markets they wanted look at all the new channel options there would be.


There would be a lot less options because all the Conus bandwidth that could have been used for new national channels would now be devoted to about 1700+ local stations mostly airing the same content outside of local news.

And again, you seem to be ignoring this point everytime it's addressed. It's NOT the satellite companies "blocking" it, it's the laws saying what satellite can provide, exclusive contracts between the networks and affiliates, among other things that would be upended if stations lost their local rights. i.e. You know that big event everyone watches live every February, a lot of people watching just for the commercials alone? Your local affiliate makes millions in local ad revenue for that event alone, no business will pay that much for a 30 second spot if there's no longer a guarantee that the entire local area is watching on your station. In some cases the ad revenue from that is enough to cover the salaries for the entire news department.


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## SeaBeagle

Some laws should changed. Would make satellite TV more interesting to watch. There should be a petition that can be signed to change that law.

Maybe when DISH starts the internet streaming service we will get those channels.

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## inkahauts

If you have streaming access to the news of every local station then there is zero need for any market other than your own to be available to you. And it'd be a massive waste of bandwidth. Massive.


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## shadough

As far as Dish offering other cities to customers, in a "what if" scenario (which we know is NOT possible, legally), Dish could offer up only neighboring cities, or whatever cities one could receive WITHIN their own spot beam. So for example, here in Wash DC, we could most likely get Baltimore, Philly, All local stations throughout VA, an perhaps even Charlotte NC (not sure about that one). I do know, the DC area is too far north to receive Atlanta stations from their spot beam, but perhaps folks in southwest VA might be within it's footprint. Again, this is only an example of what they could offer, if the were allowed to offer, which they cant. If you wanted LA or NYC, you'd need to move close enough to be within their Spotbeam footprint, if you weren't already. (Course anyone who could figure out how to crack the SmartCard encryption could do this as well, but that is next to impossible, not to mention illegal). I don't think Dish would go out of their way to put more locals up on the nationwide footprint, unless there was some huge demand for it. And I don't think there is, there's only a small percentage of folks like us who want DNS, thus the reason why we haven't seen this happen, an I think the reason why Dish stopped selling DNS to RV'ers is simply because the demand isn't great enough. Not enough subscribers to make it profitable. Which surprises me cuz Dish certainly has a better/easier set up for RV folks than Directv does, since Directv uses both KA an KU bands to get all their content, a much more complicated setup for RV'ers. This of course is a mute point anyway since legally, none of this can happen with the laws of today.

Ideally, you'd need a 3rd party company, like AAD was doing, but to market it properly, the channels would need to be in High Def, and likely as a selling point, mention that with their service one can receive NFL/MLB games not available in your market. But even w/ that, customers would need to qualify, which means filing waiver requests from the local affiliates, assuming any would even grant a waiver, not to mention the fact that if the Ad campaign mentioned getting out of market NFL/MLB games etc, that would certainly draw unwanted attention from the leagues, an likely subsequent court battles to get the laws changed yet again to tighten the restrictions we have already. And I don't think any company wants to even attempt that kind of venture.

In the future, possible? yea, who knows. Broadcasters are losing money left an right and trying to figure out how to get ppl to pay for their channels. OTA channels could go off-air or shift to some sort of pay-structure an who knows what possibilities that might entail.


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## scottchez

Today I get just about every local channel on my roku, they only stream news.
Why cant Dish stream local news on the Hopper?
This would solve the issue.


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## James Long

DISH has to deal with local channels who object to imported signals. Even to the level of local station objecting to significantly viewed signals from neighboring markets. (Cable does not have that problem as the laws do not allow cable operators to refuse carriage to significantly viewed stations unless the cable system is small and has met the quota on local channels.) Roku doesn't have to worry about local stations.


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## shadough

Again, I think its an issue of demand, theres not much demand for it, therefore not something Dish wants to enter into if they can't make a profit


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## SeaBeagle

scottchez said:


> Today I get just about every local channel on my roku, they only stream news.
> Why cant Dish stream local news on the Hopper?
> This would solve the issue.


That is what is sucky about ROKU only show the news from these stations and nothing more.

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## SeaBeagle

shadough said:


> As far as Dish offering other cities to customers, in a "what if" scenario (which we know is NOT possible, legally), Dish could offer up only neighboring cities, or whatever cities one could receive WITHIN their own spot beam. So for example, here in Wash DC, we could most likely get Baltimore, Philly, All local stations throughout VA, an perhaps even Charlotte NC (not sure about that one). I do know, the DC area is too far north to receive Atlanta stations from their spot beam, but perhaps folks in southwest VA might be within it's footprint. Again, this is only an example of what they could offer, if the were allowed to offer, which they cant. If you wanted LA or NYC, you'd need to move close enough to be within their Spotbeam footprint, if you weren't already. (Course anyone who could figure out how to crack the SmartCard encryption could do this as well, but that is next to impossible, not to mention illegal). I don't think Dish would go out of their way to put more locals up on the nationwide footprint, unless there was some huge demand for it. And I don't think there is, there's only a small percentage of folks like us who want DNS, thus the reason why we haven't seen this happen, an I think the reason why Dish stopped selling DNS to RV'ers is simply because the demand isn't great enough. Not enough subscribers to make it profitable. Which surprises me cuz Dish certainly has a better/easier set up for RV folks than Directv does, since Directv uses both KA an KU bands to get all their content, a much more complicated setup for RV'ers. This of course is a mute point anyway since legally, none of this can happen with the laws of today.
> 
> Ideally, you'd need a 3rd party company, like AAD was doing, but to market it properly, the channels would need to be in High Def, and likely as a selling point, mention that with their service one can receive NFL/MLB games not available in your market. But even w/ that, customers would need to qualify, which means filing waiver requests from the local affiliates, assuming any would even grant a waiver, not to mention the fact that if the Ad campaign mentioned getting out of market NFL/MLB games etc, that would certainly draw unwanted attention from the leagues, an likely subsequent court battles to get the laws changed yet again to tighten the restrictions we have already. And I don't think any company wants to even attempt that kind of venture.
> 
> In the future, possible? yea, who knows. Broadcasters are losing money left an right and trying to figure out how to get ppl to pay for their channels. OTA channels could go off-air or shift to some sort of pay-structure an who knows what possibilities that might entail.


I would be willing to pay for out of marked distant channels. I would rather pay for those channels rather than so e of those that are offered in the different lineups. I would rather pay my 90.00 a month for distant markets than regular programming channels.

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## Michael P

SeaBeagle said:


> I would think the advertisers would love to see their products seen nationally rather than just locally. Better for more peeps to see then less.
> 
> Sent from my iPad 4 128GB using DBSTalk mobile app


Not necessarily. May ads are targeted to a specific locale. For example car ads that mention lease terms. That "deal" may not be available in another market. If a viewer sees an ad for the "Chicago Metropolitan Honda Dealers" and tries to get that deal from the "Southern California Honda Dealers" may be in for a rude awakening (not to mention possible litigation due to a false advertising claim).

I think that's why "residency restrictions apply" are frequently mentioned whenever car lease terms are mentioned an an ad.


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## SeaBeagle

Michael P said:


> Not necessarily. May ads are targeted to a specific locale. For example car ads that mention lease terms. That "deal" may not be available in another market. If a viewer sees an ad for the "Chicago Metropolitan Honda Dealers" and tries to get that deal from the "Southern California Honda Dealers" may be in for a rude awakening (not to mention possible litigation due to a false advertising claim).
> 
> I think that's why "residency restrictions apply" are frequently mentioned whenever car lease terms are mentioned an an ad.


That is fine. That is what makes these out of market channels interesting. I do not use adverts for purchasing ideas. Like you wrote there could be those that are into saving money by referring to adverts.

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## Jim5506

So you propose that Dish put every local station up on CONUS just so you can pick which one you want to buy.

That is a TERRIBLE waste of bandwidth (besides violating the contract that the stations have with the networks for exclusivity) and probably being illegal.

If a station is not guaranteed a monopoly for its content in its territory, what advertiser will pay to advertise on their station.

If everyone can import New York or LA or Chicago Network stations no matter where they live, then all the local stations go out of business and all we will have left are stations in the big city and you get no local news, weather or sports.

It destroys the original idea of local stations - we can just give all the bandwidth to the cell companies.


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## mwdxer

I really doubt if we had the choice of a different market station, would it put the local TV station out of business. Most people could care less about watching TV from another market. They want to see their local news and weather. We are in the minority, the ones that want to watch TV from other markets. Myself, being a news fan, I love the Roku as I have access to dozens of cities in the US to watch their local news. Since Dish is not able to offer news from other makets, the Roku can. I could care less about the Network shows, as those are available locally, but seeing a news crew at work is fun. I got the chance to sit in on the 10 PM news in Billings MT (Ch2) there during a convention. Working in broadcasting years ago, it is one of my loves. In Canada where they have different rules, the satellite providers there offer TV stations from across Canada, and yet the local stations still do fine. I tell people I watch the news from KTLA-5 LA and they ask me why? I live here, but it is fun to see the news from other places.


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## KyL416

Canada is very different, up there the networks own nearly all of their affiliates and there are a lot less markets. The networks also program the stations 24/7 outside of local news, so they don't have to deal with competing station groups having syndicated programming that varies from market to market. So no matter what station you watch, they get their money either way. Over there it's more of a time shifting thing, only the satellite providers carry multiple feeds from the same time zone, on cable you just get your local feeds for your time zone and additional feeds for each time zone. When it comes to American networks you don't see the US feed much of the time, if a Canadian station is airing the same show at the same time you see the Canadian broadcast when you turn on the US station. (i.e. if you were to turn on ABC to see Dancing with the Stars you would see M3, if you turned on Peachtree TV to watch Big Bang Theory at 7pm you would see CTV Two, if you turn on Letterman on CBS you would see Omni's broadcast, etc)

Canada recently went through their own crisis for local TV. After the end of the old CH/E! network, some affiliates like CHCH and CHEK were on the brink of shutdown until they were purchased by financial backers and local management, some ended up ceasing local programming entirely and simulcasted the Global affiliate from the neighboring city others were sold off and started simulcasting another network. CTV also cancelled many of their smaller Ontario newscasts and converted those stations into a regional simulcast airing the same newscast along with shutting down CKX-TV entirely. Thanks to budget cuts, CBC and Radio-Canada ended up shutting down every station that wasn't in a market mandated for the digital transition back in 2012 and just lost the NHL rights to Rogers, now Hockey Night in Canada is limited to two games that Rogers lets them air nationally on Saturdays in addition to the other games on City, SportsNet and FX Canada with Rogers controlling all production, advertising and promotion of those games.


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## SeaBeagle

Jim5506 said:


> So you propose that Dish put every local station up on CONUS just so you can pick which one you want to buy.
> 
> That is a TERRIBLE waste of bandwidth (besides violating the contract that the stations have with the networks for exclusivity) and probably being illegal.
> 
> If a station is not guaranteed a monopoly for its content in its territory, what advertiser will pay to advertise on their station.
> 
> If everyone can import New York or LA or Chicago Network stations no matter where they live, then all the local stations go out of business and all we will have left are stations in the big city and you get no local news, weather or sports.
> 
> It destroys the original idea of local stations - we can just give all the bandwidth to the cell companies.


Yes that would be great. Then I would get my monies worth for the channels that I want from across the country. Would. It go out of business because then those locals would also be available across the country.

You would get local news and weather because you could also have your local stations as well as the other markets that one wanted.

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## scottchez

Noooooo the idea is to NOT put the locals up on the Conus beam. We need that space for more HD
The idea is to put all the locals up on the internet, with the hopper streaming the channels, but only when allowed by copyright, which means they will mostly just show local news and any local sitcom programming, not Primetime network programming.
Dish can do this today, they do it already with with on demand app, they just need to do stream it LIVE.
I do Live streaming today on the Roku, maybe dish should by Roku our contract out to have them do the software for them.


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## mwdxer

I would be for putting locals on the the Roku. That way we would get all of the sub channels too. Dish needs more satellite space to carry channels.


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## comizzou573

scottchez said:


> Noooooo the idea is to NOT put the locals up on the Conus beam. We need that space for more HD
> The idea is to put all the locals up on the internet, with the hopper streaming the channels, but only when allowed by copyright, which means they will mostly just show local news and any local sitcom programming, not Primetime network programming.
> Dish can do this today, they do it already with with on demand app, they just need to do stream it LIVE.
> I do Live streaming today on the Roku, maybe dish should by Roku our contract out to have them do the software for them.


I think its a great idea put all local channels on a conus so we have the right to choose which locals we want. Remove all the SD and replace them with HD.


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## RBA

How does all this discussion have anything to do with the original post of Superstations leaving DISH a year ago? Isn't it time to close the thread and someone can start one with the correct if stupid question being discussed.


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## Paul Secic

RBA said:


> How does all this discussion have anything to do with the original post of Superstations leaving DISH a year ago? Isn't it time to close the thread and someone can start one with the correct if stupid question being discussed.


I agree. Suprstations are finished.


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## SeaBeagle

scottchez said:


> Noooooo the idea is to NOT put the locals up on the Conus beam. We need that space for more HD
> The idea is to put all the locals up on the internet, with the hopper streaming the channels, but only when allowed by copyright, which means they will mostly just show local news and any local sitcom programming, not Primetime network programming.
> Dish can do this today, they do it already with with on demand app, they just need to do stream it LIVE.
> I do Live streaming today on the Roku, maybe dish should by Roku our contract out to have them do the software for them.


I would rather have out of town locals. Should be a choice.

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## SeaBeagle

RBA said:


> How does all this discussion have anything to do with the original post of Superstations leaving DISH a year ago? Isn't it time to close the thread and someone can start one with the correct if stupid question being discussed.


Simple. Because super stations are out of market stations.

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## SeaBeagle

scottchez said:


> Noooooo the idea is to NOT put the locals up on the Conus beam. We need that space for more HD
> The idea is to put all the locals up on the internet, with the hopper streaming the channels, but only when allowed by copyright, which means they will mostly just show local news and any local sitcom programming, not Primetime network programming.
> Dish can do this today, they do it already with with on demand app, they just need to do stream it LIVE.
> I do Live streaming today on the Roku, maybe dish should by Roku our contract out to have them do the software for them.


Yes this will be interesting to see what this streaming aspect brings us.

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## SeaBeagle

mwdxer said:


> I would be for putting locals on the the Roku. That way we would get all of the sub channels too. Dish needs more satellite space to carry channels.


I agree with that 100%. That would be great.

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