# Official 811 Users Question & Comment Thread



## Nick

Looks like everyone is posting their 811 comments or questions in many different threads. Some of the same questions are being asked over and over in diverse places. Let's try to pull all the 811 info together into a comprehensive thread so everything pertaining to the Dish 811 HD receiver will be in one place and we won't miss anything. 

This is the place to post 811 user comments, questions, complaints and, yes, bug reports.


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## Neutron

Nick said:


> Looks like everyone is posting their comments or questions in different threads. Some of the same questions are being asked over and over in different places. Let's try to pull all the 811 info together into a comprehensive thread so everything pertaining to the Dish 811 HD receiver will be in one place and we won't miss anything.
> 
> This is the place to post user comments, questions, complaints and, yes, bug reports.


Biggest Complaint? Aspect issue. Next, TOSLink on ALL the time (no sound when receiver off, but it still produces the red light) Since my AV receiver has only one digital input but has both coax and TOSlink, with the 811 sending something through, it makes the AV receiver not allow my DVD player's sound through the coax. The 6000 and 510 were never a problem like this.


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## Cyclone

Nobody has posted any screenshots of the 811 in action.


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## Nick

Currently on the 811 you cannot modify the "All Channels" or the "All Sub" lists. This is not a bug, it is a 'negative feature' which should be corrected in a future s/w d/l. You can set up a "Favorites" list which excludes all the channels you don't want to see in your guide.


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## RAD

Nick said:


> Currently on the 811 you cannot modify the "All Channels" or the "All Sub" lists. This is not a bug, it is a 'negative feature' which should be corrected in a future s/w d/l. You can set up a "Favorites" list which excludes all the channels you don't want to see in your guide.


Nick, my 50X recevers and 6000 acted the same way, those were two lists that you can't change, so it's a WAD (working as designed). Now if they can just fix the bug in the favorites list that limits the total number of channels you can have in the user favorites list.


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## Chuck Updyke

Has anyone had trouble getting the 811 to add OTA Digital channels? I go to add digital channel screen & it shows 
green signal bar but will not store the channel. Same channel works fine off 6000 & same antenna. 
When I do a channel scan if does not find the channel


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## RAD

Chuck Updyke said:


> Has anyone had trouble getting the 811 to add OTA Digital channels? I go to add digital channel screen & it shows
> green signal bar but will not store the channel. Same channel works fine off 6000 & same antenna.
> When I do a channel scan if does not find the channel


 When you get the green bar is a channel number also showing up on that screen or is it blank? If it's blank the 811 doesn't think that it's seeing a PSIP channel and won't add it. Did you upgrade from a 6000 and did it work then but not on the 811?


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## Ron Barry

What type of DVI-D connector does the 811 have? Does it require a male end cable? Any suggestions on where to get a good quaility DVI-D single link cable? 

One more thought here... Since the 811 has inputs that will allow you to feed a DVD into it, would this be a good way to calibrate your TV for your 811. Feed a DVD cable with AVIA running through the 811 to calibrate. Does this make sense or is there other ways?


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## HTguy

Chuck Updyke said:


> Has anyone had trouble getting the 811 to add OTA Digital channels? I go to add digital channel screen & it shows
> green signal bar but will not store the channel. Same channel works fine off 6000 & same antenna.
> When I do a channel scan if does not find the channel


Yes, I discovered that the 811 isn't ready to "add" digital channels. I prefer to add the digital channels manually and name them by call letters that appear in the EPG. I tried to do this initially. The 811 showed the list I created on the "Local Channels" list and even in the EPG. But if any of the channels were selected they would not come up and the signal strength read "0%" in the view banner.

When I scanned all the channels came in and worked normally.

Evidently the "Add Channels" software hasn't come in yet.


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## ddeeble

I was able to both scan and manually add my digital OTA channels just fine. Did a scan first, changed the labels to CBS, ABC, etc... and then added the two channels manually that did not appear in the scan. They went in just fine and I can view them all from the EPG with between 75-85% signal. Maybe the trick is to scan first, then do a manual add?


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## Nick

WeeJavaDude said:


> One more thought here... Since the 811 has inputs that will allow you to feed a DVD into it, would this be a good way to calibrate your TV for your 811. Feed a DVD cable with AVIA running through the 811 to calibrate. Does this make sense or is there other ways?


That's a great idea except for one thing -- the video inputs on the 811 are composite. Otherwise, I would love to be able to use an Avia disk to tweak my 811 input to TV.

Anyone know a channel/program source to get a tweak screen into and out of an 811 through DVI/component outs.

My solution: Why doesn't E* give us 10-15 min of HD tweak screens (loop) on ch 9425 or, on ch 9443 after 12:00 midnight?


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## RAD

Nick said:


> That's a great idea except for one thing -- the video inputs on the 811 are composite. Otherwise, I would love to be able to use an Avia disk to tweak my 811 input to TV.
> 
> Anyone know a channel/program source to get a tweak screen into and out of an 811 through DVI/component outs.
> 
> My solution: Why doesn't E* give us 10-15 min of HD tweak screens (loop) on ch 9425 or on ch 9443 after 12:00 midnight?


Samsung sells a reasonably priced DVD player that has DVI connection for its output.


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## Nick

RAD said:


> Samsung sells a reasonably priced DVD player that has DVI connection for its output.


 That's good information, Rad, but how does that help us tweak our monitors using the 811 input, whether DVI or component ins.


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## PoppaNovember

My 811 was installed yesterday. Long-ish BLOG follows:


INSTALLATION

It was pretty evident that this was the tech's first 811 install. He hooked the box up and checked the signals, but the box didn't seem to want to start the initial download even though I had a pretty good signal on both 119 and 110. So, after a brief consult w/dish, he replaced both of my ancient SW-21 switches and all of the outside connectors. Still, the unit wouldn't download.

The tech is about ready to give up, and even calls dish to suggest a re-schedule with another box, but just as he's about to throw in the towel the download starts. Good thing too, because I'd have been pissed about wasting a day off from work for this install.

To this point, the tech had only hooked up the S vid cable, and hadn't put the component cable on (my TV only has component HD). The tech is now 3 hours into this install, and clearly ready to leave. He has me sign the paperwork and splits after a perfunctory check of the system, and no explanation of how the HD functions work for satellite and OTA stations. I let him leave though because I'd rather just figure the thing out myself anyway. Expecially considering that the tech didn't even know that the HD package was available on 110.

All told, the install was a fairly frustrating, but ultimately successful experience, plus I ended up getting my outside connections overhauled + 2 new switches as a bonus.


USING THE 811

Once the unit was up and running, I found it to be quite user friendly. The guide is fast, although the split mode for the guide seems to fail a lot. The remote worked fine for me. I was able to program it to operate my TV, audio reciever, and VCR with minimal loss of commonly used remote commands. 

The OTA digital and analog search was simple. I found 8 OTA digital channels using my rooftop fishbone antenna. My reception goes from 40 % to 90+ % signal strength. I'm getting the ABC, FOX, CBS, NBC and UPN stations in the DC area, but oddly I'm not getting the local PBS station.

I wasn't happy with the sound I was getting from the OTA analog channels, plus the 811 isn't displaying the show titles that get broadcasted with the analog signals. Finally, the system froze up when I was switching back and forth between analog and digital. Consequently, I ended up deleting all of the analog channels from the 811 list. I'll continue to watch the analog through my direct antenna feed and save the 811 for the ota digital locals. I was hoping, though, to find a way to have show titles appear in the program guide for the ota digital channels. I'm sure they are broadcast with the digital signal.

The Dish HD channels are phenomenal - especially Discovery HD. I never thought I'd be so enthralled by the "Rivers of Canada". Hockey looks good on HDNET, and the movies on HDNET movie look good as well, but the movie selection so far is of no interest to me. My wife was underwhelmed with the picture of her Arizona basketball game on ESPNHD until I put the non-HD version of the game in the PIP and flipped back and forth. Once she saw the difference, she was convinced.

Other than the one system freeze, that seemed to be related to OTA analog, my only mishap was a temporary loss of digital audio. The only way I was able to get the audio back was to unplug the unit.


HERE'S THE BEEF

Just a couple of design beefs: I would have liked to see a component video feed-through on the 811, because now I have no HD slot available on my TV for my XBOX since I only have 2 and I'm using the other one for my DVD - gonna have to buy an external switch. And I could have used one more AUX device function on the remote so I could control my DVD player.

On the software side, I'd like to see the split mode channel guide work more often - the current channel video often doesn't want to load. Plus I'd like to be able to switch from wide-screen back to full screen on occasion - the full screen selection in the HD menu setting won't switch off of wide screen. 


SURVEY SAYS

Overall, I'm very happy with the 811. $149 well spent!


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## RAD

Nick said:


> That's good information, Rad, but how does that help us tweak our monitors using the 811 input, whether DVI or component ins.


Because you said that _I would love to be able to use an Avia disk to tweak my 811 input to TV._ which I took to mean that you wanted to set you DVI input on your set using your Avia disk.


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## LarryH

Here are the changes I would like to see:

1) Add aspect stretch modes for SD content
2) Expand guide to be 16:9 (currently 4:3)
3) Buffer more than four hours of guide data (if possible)
4) Auto-refresh the guide data and video window so guide is available immediately
5) Increase size of favorites list (I currently can only use about 3 of the 4 labels)
6) Fix periodic audio drop outs (loses audio on both RCA & TOSLINK, reboot fixes?)
7) Add OpenTV (ch 100)
8) Add Instant Weather (ch 9500)
9) Add separate PPV locks option (like 501)
10) Remove the 2-layer channel guide for OTA channels that use only 1 subchannel. Currently, each OTA channel offers 4 subchannels, but I usually only watch 1 of the 4 (the other 3 are removed in my favorites list). Since I only watch one subchannel per OTA channel, it's seems weird to have to select the same channel twice. The current guide behavior can be preserved for people who add multiple subchannels per OTA channel.


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## Ron Barry

Nick said:


> That's a great idea except for one thing -- the video inputs on the 811 are composite. Otherwise, I would love to be able to use an Avia disk to tweak my 811 input to TV.
> 
> Anyone know a channel/program source to get a tweak screen into and out of an 811 through DVI/component outs.
> 
> My solution: Why doesn't E* give us 10-15 min of HD tweak screens (loop) on ch 9425 or, on ch 9443 after 12:00 midnight?


Well the composite video is upcast and pumped through the DVI and component... I guess this might not provide a accurate source material? Damn.. thought this would be a nice side benifit to the two additional inputs.


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## Chuck Updyke

xx


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## Chuck Updyke

RAD said:


> When you get the green bar is a channel number also showing up on that screen or is it blank? If it's blank the 811 doesn't think that it's seeing a PSIP channel and won't add it. Did you upgrade from a 6000 and did it work then but not on the 811?


No the channel # is not showing up in the lower box on add DTV screen

Yes I did upgrade & works fine on the 6000 however I went through a period on the 6000 where it dumped the stored channel & it would still show up on the signal bar in the manual add DTV screen & would not store it. After a recent software download it started working again on the 6000
I have tried the scan on the 811& it does not pick it up,


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## lionsrule

If you have an 811 by now you know that the aspect ratio is locked on 16x9. What that means for me: Hd channels come through in "full-screen" (still looks great) and all other sd channels are "cropped". Essentially, the 811 is currently only of use for the 4 hd channels....don't even bother trying to view all other channels. Dish explains that they are aware of the problem and hope to fix it "soon" via a software upgrade. Luckily for me, I still have my 510 attached to the same TV. Seems like kinda a ripoff that I paid 150 for a HD receiver that is literally limited to the HD channels only!!


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## clapple

PapaNovember,

You mentioned digital audio. Are you able to get Dolby Digital? I can not.

The answer I received from Dish was, that along with the aspect ratio problem, they knew about this as well, and were working on it.


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## Nick

lionsrule said:


> If you have an 811 by now you know that the aspect ratio is locked on 16x9. What that means for me: Hd channels come through in "full-screen" (still looks great) and all other sd channels are "cropped". Essentially, the 811 is currently only of use for the 4 hd channels....don't even bother trying to view all other channels. Dish explains that they are aware of the problem and hope to fix it "soon" via a software upgrade. Luckily for me, I still have my 510 attached to the same TV. Seems like kinda a ripoff that I paid 150 for a HD receiver that is literally limited to the HD channels only!!


What is the aspect ratio of your tv and what inputs are you using?

I get the following on my 16:9 widescreen Panny:

Component Input from 811
HD channels - 16:9, screen filled, no tv aspect control
SD channels - 4:3, 811's black bars on sides, no tv aspect control

S-Video Input from 811
HD channels - 811's black bars top & bottom, except in tv's zoom mode, full tv aspect control
SD channels - no black bars, tv's gray bars on tv's 4:3 mode, full tv aspect control


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## PoppaNovember

clapple said:


> PapaNovember,
> 
> You mentioned digital audio. Are you able to get Dolby Digital? I can not.
> 
> The answer I received from Dish was, that along with the aspect ratio problem, they knew about this as well, and were working on it.


Clapple,

I'm getting Dolby Digital some of the time. I have the audio going through a toslink cable to one of the optical inputs on my receiver. The digial audio signal will show both DD and Dolby Pro Logic for some of the programming, then it will switch to DD only. I assume that my receiver shows both when it's not getting a pure DD signal, like when commercials are on. It's similar to what my receiver does with a DVD: it shows both DD and DPL for the title screens, etc. then it switches to DD only when the feature starts.

The DD only signal sounds great. I can't remember whether it was hockey or basketball that I was watching yesterday, but it was in DD and it sounded like I was in the arena.

Not sure what the Dish tech was talking about. Other than the one time I lost all sound and had to unplug the 811, the digital output seems to be working fine.


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## Jerry 42

Dish has been/is saying that they are working on the aspect ratio problem. In an e-mail response today they say the software update will be released "soon" - what ever that means in Dish talk, perhaps next week, next month ???. On an other thread some one was told the software update for this is P 263. My 811 shows the current software verison as P 261 so either P 262 is being passed or P 263 is still a ways a way.

BTW - Certain TVs over ride S-Video if Componet or DVI is active on that port - a problem if all your other inputs are used. So S-Video is not an answer to the aspect problem for ever one.


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## RAD

Jerry 42 said:


> Dish has been/is saying that they are working on the aspect ratio problem. In an e-mail response today they say the software update will be released "soon" - what ever that means in Dish talk, perhaps next week, next month ???. On an other thread some one was told the software update for this is P 263. My 811 shows the current software verison as P 261 so either P 262 is being passed or P 263 is still a ways a way.
> 
> BTW - Certain TVs over ride S-Video if Componet or DVI is active on that port - a problem if all your other inputs are used. So S-Video is not an answer to the aspect problem for ever one.


I was told P262 for the fix and this weekend, unless a bug shows up in the remaining testing.

PS:The LAB doesn't mean it's LAB code but designates a rev level of the hardware (and it still doesn't mean labratory :sure: )


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## Nick

Jerry 42 said:


> BTW - Certain TVs over ride S-Video if Componet or DVI is active on that port - a problem if all your other inputs are used. So S-Video is not an answer to the aspect problem for ever one.


Use other inputs on your jack-pack for S-video if you have them.

Here's my tv's current video jack-pack lineup:

Input Label - source/jack/signal:
Component 1 - 811/component/1080i
Component 2 - DVD/component/480p
Video 1 - PVR/S-video/SD
Video 2 - 811/S-video/SD
Video 3 - available
Video 4 - available
RF 1 - Cable/F/analog
RF 2 - available


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## dschlack

Does anyone know what the SD/HD Input button on the remote is used for?There's no mention of it in the manual.


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## JimmyJoe

> Does anyone know what the SD/HD Input button on the remote is used for? There's no mention of it in the manual.


SD/HD is the "tv/video" button with a different label. On my 6000 it switched between SD/HD outputs, but I don't think it provides any function on an 811. When the remote is set to "TV" it lets me change the video input.


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## JimmyJoe

I haven't seen any mention in this thread about the SD outputs (composite and SVHS) giving a much darker picture than they had on the 6000. I've got an installer coming out next week to check out my 811 after going through a series of tests with tech support over the phone and not getting any improvement in the display.

Is the dark picture a rare problem or one that already has a known fix?


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## Bob Saylor

I don't know if it's rare but a lot of folks have the problem, including me. I don't know if there will be a fix or not


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## luckycat

PoppaNovember said:


> The DD only signal sounds great. I can't remember whether it was hockey or basketball that I was watching yesterday, but it was in DD and it sounded like I was in the arena.
> 
> Not sure what the Dish tech was talking about. Other than the one time I lost all sound and had to unplug the 811, the digital output seems to be working fine.


When I have DD/PCM enabled, on some HD channels I get sound, on others occasional "sqeaks"..when I disable DD (PCM only) I hear sound. My receiver can definately decode DD (and DTS), and I used it with my 6000 previously. I haven't had time to determine what channels this happens on, but I seem to remember ESPN-HD.


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## Mark Lamutt

Keep in mind that ESPN-HD broadcasts no DD audio. They broadcast their audio in Circle-Surround.


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## lionsrule

Nick said:


> What is the aspect ratio of your tv and what inputs are you using?
> 
> I get the following on my 16:9 widescreen Panny:
> 
> Component Input from 811
> HD channels - 16:9, screen filled, no tv aspect control
> SD channels - 4:3, 811's black bars on sides, no tv aspect control
> 
> S-Video Input from 811
> HD channels - 811's black bars top & bottom, except in tv's zoom mode, full tv aspect control
> SD channels - no black bars, tv's gray bars on tv's 4:3 mode, full tv aspect control


I have a 4x3 HD set....my 811 is using composites for hd and svideo for everything else.....currently, hd programming fills the screen and it SHOULD be letterboxed on my 4x3 and sd progamming is reduced to a smaller 4x3 square bordered on all sides when still using comp input.....I can switch to the svideo input, but that results in a grainy and ironically, letterboxed for all channels.....4x3 OWNERS NEED THE 4X3 OPTIONS IN THE HD MENU FIXED ASAP!!!!!!


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## Jerry 42

Rad - Thank you for the info on the aspect ratio fix - I hope you are right in that the upgrade will be released this weekend. Besides the size of the picture, my concern it side bar burn-in if the problem is not fixed soon. 

Nick - Thank you as well. The problem for me (and perhaps others) is that all the input ports on the TV are already used. Adding a switch box which is extra $, would require pulling out equipment for re-wiring to the switch so that the 811 S-Video and an other A/V unit can use the same TV port. Pioneer Elites and some other TVs will overide S-Video or Composite with DVI or Componet if the later are active on the same input port. Therefore I would need two different ports for the 811 and as I noted I do not have an extra one. 

Sorry to take up everyones time but this would not been an issue if Dish had not changed the aspect ratio set up they had on the 6000.


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## Nick

Cables included in box with 811 HD receiver:

1-6' component cable
1-6' S-video cable
1-6' RF cable (labeled "For connection between the satellite receiver and the television only" ???
1-25' RJ-11 telelphone cable (4-wire)

DVI cable is not provided (Lengths are approximate)


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## SpenceJT

Received my 811 today and installed in the place of one of my two Dish 6000's this evening.

So far so good! The menu is fast-fast-FAST! I haven't noticed a darker than usual output to my display, but I've only got it hooked up to my 20" analog television (I'm waiting to replace the 6000 currently on my 65" Mitsubishi with a 921 whenever it hits the marketplace).

I won't waste time in going over the gripes already mentioned on so many other threads as I know that Dish will rectify these with upcoming firmware updates.

The only negative thing that I have noticed is that the audio (analog as this receiver is in a secondary TV room with no additional audio equipment) levels are noticeably lower, resulting in my having to turn the television's volume up beyond what is considered normal. This results in moderatly loud audio when switching to the television's internal tuner.

I hope that this low audio level is corrected via a future firmware update as well.

Now if Dish network can tell me what happened to the appointment that I had scheduled for a December 17th installation of a SuperDish... it seems to have been "lost".  

I sure as hell better not end up getting re-scheduled for March!!! :nono2: If I do, I may have some Dish equipment for sale on eBay!


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## kstevens

Jerry 42 said:


> Dish has been/is saying that they are working on the aspect ratio problem. In an e-mail response today they say the software update will be released "soon" - what ever that means in Dish talk, perhaps next week, next month ???. On an other thread some one was told the software update for this is P 263. My 811 shows the current software verison as P 261 so either P 262 is being passed or P 263 is still a ways a way.
> 
> BTW - Certain TVs over ride S-Video if Componet or DVI is active on that port - a problem if all your other inputs are used. So S-Video is not an answer to the aspect problem for ever one.


I'm not certain what the issue is here. The component out connection outputs a progressive scan signal. This is the way it works on the other hd receivers also. Most tv's are set up to lock the television into full mode if it detects a progressive scan signal, so what you are seeing is a normal feature. I use the s-video for sd content. I have 3 hd tv's, all from different manufacturers and none of them have over rides on the s-video if component is active. I just switch from one video source to another.

Ken


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## Jerry 42

Ken 

I do not know about most TVs just the 2 HD TVs I use - (Pioneer Elite Projection & Pioneer Plasma) both have have the side bar and input port issues- as noted in my earlier 2 posts. If your TVs do not have over ride issue I think it is great, but it is a problem for me and others who have TVs that do not work like yours. I hope you understand our problem as we would if you had any issues on the 811.


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## zonzin

Here is a note I send to DISH tech support on my expiriences with the 811 so far.


I just switched from Direct TV to Dish and have to say I am disappointed in the HD 811 receiver. I hope you will have software updates for the receiver soon to address the following issues.

1.	When using a wide screen HDTV it is a major pain to get a full screen picture with the 811 when switching from HD programming to non-HD. With the Panasonic receiver I used with Direct TV, pressing the "aspect/format" button on the remote would stretch the 4x3 picture to fill the 16x9 screen. Pressing the "format" button on the 811 remote does nothing. To fill the screen during 4x3 programming requires I go into the setup menu of the 811 3 menus deep to the HDTV setup and change the aspect to 480p. Then I can use the TV remote to select 16x9 aspect to get a full screen picture. And when I go to watch a HD program I cannot leave it setup this way as the picture will be skewed of to the right by half. So I have to go back into the 811 HDTV setup and select 1080i to get the HD programming to look right. This process must be repeated every time I switch programming. Pain in the arse! Make the "Format" or "HD/SD Input" do this task. Right now both of these buttons do nothing.

2.	The favorites setup has a limited number of channels that can be added to a “favorite”. This is unacceptable. It should have the ability to add as many channels as subscribed to. This is so I can remove just the channels I do not want my kids to have access to and keep the rest. There are not enough “slots” available to do this with the limits placed on favorites.

3.	The receiver also seems to have a hard time keeping a lock on the satellite signal. I constantly get a message something to the effect of, “Please wait, searching for signal”. This happens frequently when switching between OTA channels and Satelite.

I know the 811 is a new product and may require updates. I hope you will support the product and address these issues soon. The HD format issue are serious enough to tempt me to go back to Direct TV.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since this was sent I have had a couple of other problems with the 811. 

The first is the receiver has locked up a couple of times and become totaly unresponsive with choppy video and audio. I had to reset the receiver by sticking a credit card in the not-used access card slot. 
The second issue is that the damn thing keeps loosing the satelite signal. It says "to test the switch" from the setup menu and once I run the switch test the signal comes back. 
As for the aspect issue it is the most annoying. I am using the DVI connection and I get black bars on the side in SD and full screen in HD. Evn when setting the mode to 4x3 in the 811's HDTV setup and then using the TV's aspect to change it to full screen, i get 1"" vertical black bars. Never had these problems with the Panasonic and DTV. 
At any rate, DISH is coming out on Saturday to replace the 811 to "fix" the loss signal issue.


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## heirway

The following has happened to me twice so far.

While doing the automatic scan feature for the digital OTA channels I received an incoming phone call which popped up the Caller ID screen. The Caller ID screen caused the OTA scanning to stop and caused the 811 to lock up. Had to do a hard reboot.


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## kstevens

Jerry 42 said:


> Ken
> 
> I do not know about most TVs just the 2 HD TVs I use - (Pioneer Elite Projection & Pioneer Plasma) both have have the side bar and input port issues- as noted in my earlier 2 posts. If your TVs do not have over ride issue I think it is great, but it is a problem for me and others who have TVs that do not work like yours. I hope you understand our problem as we would if you had any issues on the 811.


I have the pioneer elite 64" rear projection, phillips 34" tube and a rca 40" tube. On the pioneer, it has 3 video inputs. inputs 1 & 2 are component/compostie/svhs, 3 is svideo/composite. I have my 6000 connected to input one with component and input 3 for svideo. All I do is switch between the inputs for what I'm watching on the tv. I have the pronto pro remote that is set up automatically to switch the inputs depending on whether I'm watching hd or sd. The extra step of having to switch inputs not an issue with me. When I get my 811 this coming monday, I'll set it up exactly the same way.

Ken


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## wileadams

WOW! QUIET! PEACEFUL! That was my very first impression of the 811. If only my coming 921 could be this quiet.

Well, I have to say that there is something strange going on with my 811, and I have gotten the same CSR (or at least the same voice and name) and was hung up on twice, that is 2 times, by the same tech CSR today. My 2 problems are:

1) Reception of 2 of my off-air is totally unacceptable the 6000 that I had got them perfectly. Now, the signal strength bounces from 60 to 74 and has audio dropouts and distorted (as in an over compressed jpeg) picture. No, this is not the standard pixel blocks but a terrible wavy kind of distortion. I have only seen this before when I have overly compressed a photo image. However, I thought maybe there was a problem with these stations (2 out of the 13 HD stations I can get off-air). I reconnected the 6000. No problems at all. A friend of mine thinks that the decoder in the system is bad because he noticed it on the DISH HD channels, too. Personally, I have not seen this on any channels outside of the two off-air HD stations. (I might get out my video capture card to take a picture of this odd behavior.) I have wasted over an hour with DISH only to get hung up on.

2) Dropping of the DD toslink is the second problem. But I am able to regain the signal after resetting both the satellite and a/v receivers to factory defaults. The good thing is that it takes about 3 hours of having them both on for them to lose the DD link. PCM only does not have this problem.

On good notes:

1) The 811 did bring in 1 station which I had problems getting on the 6000 due to multipath interference. But still not able to get the UPN affiliate due to interference with a Louisville station. 

2) DISH SD channels look MUCH better than on the 6000. 

3) Output picture quality seems much improved because I am using the DVI connection instead of the component, composite or s-video connections.

4) Love the guide. Much quicker, I have noticed less of the "not available" messages. Much more modern feel than the 6000, but wish it were on par with the 721. I can not wait until the 48 hour guide is cached.


----------



## DarrellP

LarryH said:


> Here are the changes I would like to see:
> 10) Remove the 2-layer channel guide for OTA channels that use only 1 subchannel. Currently, each OTA channel offers 4 subchannels, but I usually only watch 1 of the 4 (the other 3 are removed in my favorites list). Since I only watch one subchannel per OTA channel, it's seems weird to have to select the same channel twice. The current guide behavior can be preserved for people who add multiple subchannels per OTA channel.


Larry, if you use the transparent Browse to find your OTA channel, you only have to select once.


----------



## Ron Barry

64 thousand dollar questions. Is the Error ... Acquiring signal... wait a minute or 2 to get the guide issue gone? Anbody seeing it with the 811?


----------



## DarrellP

> 64 thousand dollar questions. Is the Error ... Acquiring signal... wait a minute or 2 to get the guide issue gone? Anbody seeing it with the 811?


YES, a thread at AVSForum says this bug is still there.


----------



## Nick

DarrellP said:


> YES, a thread at AVSForum says this bug is still there.


 Not on my 811.


----------



## shankar

WeeJavaDude said:


> 64 thousand dollar questions. Is the Error ... Acquiring signal... wait a minute or 2 to get the guide issue gone? Anbody seeing it with the 811?


 I don't get that error. However, I lose the audio periodically, when I change channels


----------



## PoppaNovember

JimmyJoe said:


> I haven't seen any mention in this thread about the SD outputs (composite and SVHS) giving a much darker picture than they had on the 6000. I've got an installer coming out next week to check out my 811 after going through a series of tests with tech support over the phone and not getting any improvement in the display.
> 
> Is the dark picture a rare problem or one that already has a known fix?


I just noticed this problem yesterday. Glad to see it's not just me. Hopefully they will fix it before I screw up my picture settings any more trying to make it look better.


----------



## Jerry G

Nick said:


> Not on my 811.


It's certainly present on my 811, not every time, but it does happen. I'll bet it will eventually happen to you, unless it's fixed in a software upgrade before you see it. However, given that it's never been fixed in the 6000, I suspect it will never be fixed in the 811.


----------



## kstevens

Jerry G said:


> It's certainly present on my 811, not every time, but it does happen. I'll bet it will eventually happen to you, unless it's fixed in a software upgrade before you see it. However, given that it's never been fixed in the 6000, I suspect it will never be fixed in the 811.


I don't think this could be fixed in the 6000. It didn't have enough physical memory. It was designed when the numbe rof channels was quite a bit less. When it first came out, it handled the channel guide with no problems, but as more and more channels were added, it's performance degraded.

Ken


----------



## glenns1939

I have my 811 connected to my Mitsu with Component connections for offair and the 4 hd channels from Dish. For SD reception, I have as many of you do, used S-video to another input so I can stretch the picture, or at least get the gray bars to avoid burn in. One problem that bugs me when using the component connection for OTA reception, via my antenna, is that I tend to get a rectangular picture with black bars on the sides and top and bottom. what is this? This has just recently begun to occur-initially I got full screen for HD and black bars on the sides for SD. Otherwise I have the dark picture,sound problems,etc like many of fellow posters. I called tech and got nowhere-just the 262 and 263 updates would address known issues-but he blamed the top and side bars on the stations sending the signal over the air, or suggested it was normal.My 6000U didn't do this. any thoughts out there? Thanks


----------



## 120inna55

A friend of mine just got an 811 installed. All channels worked fine upon install, but after powering up the unit the following morning, he could see the guide and could see/hear the cd channels, but any other channel resulted in a black screen. The signals on 110 and 119 were fine. There was no "acquiring signal" error or anything, just the black screen. He called the installer who eventually had it fixed with a reboot. The installer said other customers were having the same problem with the 811's and it was related to a recent sw upgrade. I figured I would have heard about this on this board. So, was there a sw spooled last night? And did it cause such problems?


----------



## clapple

120inna55 said:


> A friend of mine just got an 811 installed. All channels worked fine upon install, but after powering up the unit the following morning, he could see the guide and could see/hear the cd channels, but any other channel resulted in a black screen. The signals on 110 and 119 were fine. There was no "acquiring signal" error or anything, just the black screen. He called the installer who eventually had it fixed with a reboot. The installer said other customers were having the same problem with the 811's and it was related to a recent sw upgrade. I figured I would have heard about this on this board. So, was there a sw spooled last night? And did it cause such problems?


I've had my 811 since Tuesday. No new software yet.


----------



## Chuck Updyke

Chuck Updyke said:


> No the channel # is not showing up in the lower box on add DTV screen
> 
> Yes I did upgrade & works fine on the 6000 however I went through a period on the 6000 where it dumped the stored channel & it would still show up on the signal bar in the manual add DTV screen & would not store it. After a recent software download it started working again on the 6000
> I have tried the scan on the 811& it does not pick it up,


Connected a second 811 up it had a different software version i think 051 , entered channel & channel # showed up the the lower box but it still would not store, did channel scan found channel however would not store it.
Shut receiver off for software upgrade, now has version 251
will not fine channel in manual or scan of add digital channel. Called tech support they did not have a clue.


----------



## cpdretired

Chuck Updyke said:


> Connected a second 811 up it had a different software version i think 051 , entered channel & channel # showed up the the lower box but it still would not store, did channel scan found channel however would not store it.
> Shut receiver off for software upgrade, now has version 251
> will not fine channel in manual or scan of add digital channel. Called tech support they did not have a clue.


The current software version is 261. Make sure the box is checked for updates "without permission". Also shut the unit off overnight for new software.


----------



## oucory

I'am having the same problem with dark channels (very dark) some night scenes are totally black. This is only on SD channels HD is bright... I thought it was my projection tv ,but I hooked a Direct view up and it has the same prob and I hooked the 301 up to the Projection and the picture is bright.... 

Is this something that will be fixed with a software upgrade?

More Problems

Guide is in 4:3 with components--- it was full screen until yesterday??? HDTV channels in full though  

Guide only caches 2-3 hours 

Loses signal on some channels while others are fine

The HDTV Channels do look great though..


----------



## Littlebit92

It only took me a couple days to take the 811 off the HDTV set in the family room and put in on a non HD 36" toshiba in the bedroom. Im keeping my eyes open for news on the updates.
First off the 811 picture was not as good as the 6000 was. 
The aspect ratio thing was a big issue here.
The picture was very dark.
I could not manually add my OTA digitals. I have to rotate my antenna to get different stations so a scan doesnt work well.
Since Ive had my 811.... a little over a week ...... the guide keeps losing my local satellite channels and I have to reset to get them back.


----------



## oucory

Yes the Aspect and dark pictures is annoying. I called customer support and went through several test (they tried to blame it on my tv, but I had already hooked up a 301 and the picture was fine, and I hooked up the 811 to a regular tv and the picture was still dark) so in short they are sending my a another 811 so we will see if that fixes the problem... 

They said software updates will not fix the problem!!


----------



## RAD

Has anyone seen the software update that was supposed to come out this weekend to fix the aspect ratio problem???


----------



## Jerry G

RAD said:


> Has anyone seen the software update that was supposed to come out this weekend to fix the aspect ratio problem???


No. Just checked. Still at 261.


----------



## HD Dummy

PoppaNovember said:


> Just a couple of design beefs: I would have liked to see a component video feed-through on the 811, because now I have no HD slot available on my TV for my XBOX since I only have 2 and I'm using the other one for my DVD - gonna have to buy an external switch. !


Had the same "input" problem having a four year old Mitsubihi WS-55805 with only one Y,Pr,Pb input and now an 811, Progressive DVD, and a PS2. Solution was located at SmartHome.com, Audio Authority Model 1154 Component switchbox. Fully automatic with a manual overide. I even have and extra set of inputs for the "next toy." HDD


----------



## TomWaters

Chuck Updyke said:


> Has anyone had trouble getting the 811 to add OTA Digital channels? I go to add digital channel screen & it shows
> green signal bar but will not store the channel. Same channel works fine off 6000 & same antenna.
> When I do a channel scan if does not find the channel


I had the same problem. Digital scan added all but two channels and
when trying to manually add these two I get the green signal bar
saying locked but blank channel number field and could save these
channels. After trial and error, I got it to work. I did a hard reboot,
holding power for ten seconds...then went and selected Digital scan.
This time it added these two channels, but didn't get the psip info.

So these channels came in with the transmit channel number and
no station names.

Tom


----------



## Guest

When the tech guys came, they checked the signal for the three satellites (119, 110 and 105). I got the SuperDish for the locals. Then one night, I lost my locals fed by 105, not the OTA ones. I called them and reset my 811 receiver. Next day, the same thing, so I called them again to fix it. Different method, and did not work. When I check the switch, 110 and 119 I get FEED instead of Sgnl. I still can watch those channels under these satellites, but the signal is around 55%.
Can anybody explain to me, why I get the FEED sign on both satellites? 
Why every other night I lost my locals under 105?

Thanks
Baldur


----------



## TomWaters

I just got rid of my cable and now a new dish subscriber.

Overall I'm very happy with the 811, but I do have a question.

Does the electronic program guide listing work with the OTA local
digital channels that are added? I don't get the program list for
these channels. Is this a bug with the 811?


----------



## kstevens

TomWaters said:


> I just got rid of my cable and now a new dish subscriber.
> 
> Overall I'm very happy with the 811, but I do have a question.
> 
> Does the electronic program guide listing work with the OTA local
> digital channels that are added? I don't get the program list for
> these channels. Is this a bug with the 811?


Local ota channels won't have the guide unless you associate them with the 4 networks and then it appears for basically prime time only.

Ken


----------



## RAD

kstevens said:


> Local ota channels won't have the guide unless you associate them with the 4 networks and then it appears for basically prime time only.
> 
> Ken


As far as I know that only works on the NTSC/Analog channels, it doesn't work for the ATSC/Digital channels, at least I haven't see where you can do that yet.


----------



## zonzin

Something I have learned while fighting the 811 issues. 

To reset the 811 take a credit card or something similar in size and insert it into the smart card slot(door on the left side of the 811) while the receiver is on and pull it back out after a couple of seconds. The reciever will power cycle and reset after a few seconds.


----------



## oucory

Can't you just hold the power button for 5-10 seconds to do the same thing?


----------



## kstevens

RAD said:


> As far as I know that only works on the NTSC/Analog channels, it doesn't work for the ATSC/Digital channels, at least I haven't see where you can do that yet.


Well, for right now, that doesn't even work for the analog channels. I just talked to tech support. This feature hasn't been put in the receiver yet.

Ken


----------



## RAD

Would it be easier to come up with a list of 811 functions that do work vs. all the ones that don't????


----------



## oucory

I'll start it The Power Button Works

next... :lol:


----------



## kstevens

oucory said:


> I start it The Power Button Works
> 
> next... :lol:


Open TV works....not!!!! Not in the receiver software yet.

Ken


----------



## RAD

The 'Info Not Available' function for programs 1 hour out works just fine. Also the limit on the unlimited favorites is working OK.


----------



## Danny R

_I'm not certain what the issue is here. The component out connection outputs a progressive scan signal. This is the way it works on the other hd receivers also. Most tv's are set up to lock the television into full mode if it detects a progressive scan signal, so what you are seeing is a normal feature. _

No, my 4x3 Sony only locks into wide mode if it gets a 540p or 1080i signal. It can be viewed in either mode however if it gets a DVD quality 480p signal coming in. My progressive DVD player is currently hooked to the component inputs and I choose between 16:9 or 4x3 mode all the time depending on the format of the DVD.

I believe the problem with the 811 aspect is that the menu option for 4:3 sets doesn't work. What this menu should do is tell the receiver not to automatically upgrade SD content to higher resolutions. I don't have an 811 yet... I'm just guessing based on descriptions. Ideally you shouldn't have to change the video input of your TV just when you change channels on the receiver. The receiver should output only what the channel provides and not automatically try and upconvert everything (unless you tell it to of course)


----------



## PoppaNovember

I saw another bug yesterday, that I haven't seen mentioned here yet. I've got the 811 connected to my TV via both component connection for the HD, and via S-Video. Since my set is 4:3, and the 811 HD is only available in 16:9, I've generally use the component input only when I want to watch the HD content, and I'll switch to the S-video input for everything else on the dish.

Yesterday, I came across an issue where the s-video signal was not coming through. The picture was blank with the exception of some squiggles at the top of the screen. Obviously this didn't impact sound since I'm always using the digital audio, regardless of what video input I'm using. 

Turning the set off for a few minutes, and turing it back on resolved the problem. I've seen it happen twice now.

Anyone else run across this? Considering this problem, and the fact that the dish S-Video picture is very dark now (mentioned earlier in a few posts), I really need DISH to fix this aspect ratio limitation on the 811!

So, as some of you have said, it does appear that we're now beta testers. But for the $150 I paid, with no other obligations, I'm happy to do it.


----------



## Frostilicus

I saw that yesterday as well. The Component output was fine, but the S-video was all grey with a bit of video noise at the top. Rebooting fixed mine too. Bring on the software updates!!


----------



## TomWaters

New 811 software update.

Version 2.62 Release 12/16/03

http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/customerCare/technical/software_versions/index.asp

Anybody downloaded? What issues does it fix?

Tom


----------



## oucory

TomWaters said:


> New 811 software update.
> 
> Version 2.62 Release 12/16/03
> 
> http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/customerCare/technical/software_versions/index.asp
> 
> Anybody downloaded? What issues does it fix?
> 
> Tom


The format button works in comp... now , but others say it doesnt work on the S-Vid etc.. Which my sony does great for that anyway.


----------



## Jerry 42

I just got e-mail reponse from Soraya Cartrigth's office. It said in summary-

1- A fix from aspect ratio problem was sent as a download.
2- They are working on a better fix and other issues re:811
3- They are in negotiations with many HD channels including Starz & Bravo. They hope to launch new channels in the first few months of 2004.

If Mr. Ergen would have said this or at least been more open in the last Charlie Chat I think it would have served Dish better. But it does seem that Dish is addressing the problems.


----------



## zexel

Has anyone had a fix for the superdark output in the s-video mode yet? I just got my 811 installed today and even with the tv settings cranked up it is still so dark as to be unwatchable. I called support and they said to wait 3 to 4 weeks for another software update to see if this fixes the problem. I think it is a problem in the receiver and not the software. Is there anyone who doesn`t have this problem? I also noticed that the analog locals do not have this problem only the digital, anyone else notice this?


----------



## cpdretired

zexel said:


> Has anyone had a fix for the superdark output in the s-video mode yet? I just got my 811 installed today and even with the tv settings cranked up it is still so dark as to be unwatchable. I called support and they said to wait 3 to 4 weeks for another software update to see if this fixes the problem. I think it is a problem in the receiver and not the software. Is there anyone who doesn`t have this problem? I also noticed that the analog locals do not have this problem only the digital, anyone else notice this?


Your receiver is fine. We all have the same problem with the dark picture. I guess we will have to wait Dish to send out the fix. I do think that 3 to 4 weeks is a long time. My analog channels are much brighter than the digital channels.


----------



## wileadams

I got the update this evening... This update resolves a lot of my issues I had. But it also broke a few things: 

* It says it locks in on a channel (32-01, which should map to 23-01). This station only gets about a 49 to 53% signal strength. I have yet to get this station to lock in at all due to multi-path interference. The scan says it is locked in, but when tuning to it, it says the signal has been lost. 

* Lost HD channels. This also includes lose of what channel it should be on... 46-01 should be mapped to 13-02 and 46-01 should be mapped to 13-01. I never had a problem with this on the 6000 or with the previous version of the software.

* Still have issues when tuning to 2 channels and weird digital artifacts on the screen and dropped audio when this happens. The 6000 does not exhibit this at all. I have tested it and no signal problem with these channels.


----------



## Mike Richardson

Is composite output also dark? What about the crappy RF plug?


----------



## normang

zexel said:


> Has anyone had a fix for the superdark output in the s-video mode yet? I just got my 811 installed today and even with the tv settings cranked up it is still so dark as to be unwatchable. I called support and they said to wait 3 to 4 weeks for another software update to see if this fixes the problem. I think it is a problem in the receiver and not the software. Is there anyone who doesn`t have this problem? I also noticed that the analog locals do not have this problem only the digital, anyone else notice this?


I think this can be corrected in software. Many aspects of modern tv's are software controlled. However, Dish has to convinced that there is a problem. I think they are getting the message, however continuing to remind them is going to create pressure for them to get a fix sooner rather than later by asking for confirmation that they are working on the problem, that engineering has seen the problem....


----------



## herni

I am new here so sorry if this has been covered already. I just got my 811 installed over the weekend, and since then have noticed several times that my local OTA digital channels disappear from the menu at times. And I can't punch in the channel number on the remote to go directly, bypassing the menu in other words. What do I do? Does this happen to anyone else? Also, my 811 seems to have problems holding onto a satellites. When I change channels, I get the acquiring satellite message on my screen for a couple of seconds. Very annoying.


----------



## cpdretired

herni said:


> I am new here so sorry if this has been covered already. I just got my 811 installed over the weekend, and since then have noticed several times that my local OTA digital channels disappear from the menu at times. And I can't punch in the channel number on the remote to go directly, bypassing the menu in other words. What do I do? Does this happen to anyone else? Also, my 811 seems to have problems holding onto a satellites. When I change channels, I get the acquiring satellite message on my screen for a couple of seconds. Very annoying.


1. You must go thru the guide to select OTA channels. Why, I wish I knew.

2. I have had the acquiring satellite signal a few times. The receiver has been installed since Friday. How is your signal strength?

3. You most likely also have a darker picture since the 811 was installed. I spoke with advanced tech support today. They are aware of the problem with the 811's. The tech. stated that the engineers are working on a software fix.

4. The only time I have lost OTA channels is when I had to pull a breaker in the house for some electrical work.


----------



## herni

That is what I mean, I try going thru the guide to select the OTA digital channel, and I get nothing. My signal strength fluctuates between 63 and 88, which BTW, brings up another question I had, if my analog channels look fine, why does the signal strength fluctuate so much in the first place? As for the darker picture, I haven't really noticed it that much. I am hooked up with comp. cables, not S-video. From what I have read, the problem of the darker picture is with the S-video cables.


----------



## normang

There have been issues with OTA Channel selection in 261 and I think they made it worse in 262.. Call Dish, email tech support, to make sure they have a report of these problems so they can investigate in detail and resolve the problem.

The dark video is worse on S-Video than component. However when your using component, depending on your TV, you cannot get full screen SD when using component.


----------



## zonzin

I got 262 update and it did fix the aspect issues. Woohoo!! I am using the DVI out and aspect now works well. However, now I loose OTA channels randomly. Get the "test switch" message when surfing back to the Satelite HD channels and then have to go into setup and re-scan for the OTA's. Pain but at least aspect is fixed.


----------



## Bobby94928

herni said:


> I am new here so sorry if this has been covered already. I just got my 811 installed over the weekend, and since then have noticed several times that my local OTA digital channels disappear from the menu at times. And I can't punch in the channel number on the remote to go directly, bypassing the menu in other words. What do I do? Does this happen to anyone else? Also, my 811 seems to have problems holding onto a satellites. When I change channels, I get the acquiring satellite message on my screen for a couple of seconds. Very annoying.


To access the OTA directly, it is necessary to punch in some extra digits. For example, if you want to go to channel 7, you punch in 007 (to go to 7-1) or 0072 (if you want to go to 7-2). Likewise punch in 024 to go to channel 24-1, etc.


----------



## rjbu

I noticed that if my 811 is tuned to any HD OTA channel, the recall button does not change to the previous channel - it just reselects the current HD OTA channel. The recall button works fine when on any analog OTA channel, or any SD or HD satellite channel. 

I am on P262, but I don't know if this is a new problem with P262 or if I just didn't notice this before.

Is anyone else seeing this issue?


----------



## normang

rjbu said:


> I noticed that if my 811 is tuned to any HD OTA channel, the recall button does not change to the previous channel - it just reselects the current HD OTA channel. The recall button works fine when on any analog OTA channel, or any SD or HD satellite channel.
> 
> I am on P262, but I don't know if this is a new problem with P262 or if I just didn't notice this before.
> 
> Is anyone else seeing this issue?


I suspect that this behavior may have started with 262, hard to say, call Dish and report it.. The more they know, the more they'll fix..


----------



## kiran

Hi,

This is my first post and this forum is great to get information about Dish Network. 

I had a 811 installl last saturday, but, they called and rescheduled the appointment for 27th (apparantly they don't have 811 in stock). I have a SONY 34 16.9 TV and reading these posts, looks like 811 still has a lot of problems. Should I take the plunge and get the 811 or should I cancel my order and wait until they get them resolved?

Thanks for your input.

Regards,
Kiran


----------



## JohnMI

I would go for it. Updates will come as software downloads -- so I don't see a great benefit to waiting if you do indeed want HD for your TV via Dish -- or OTA...

- John...


----------



## Guest

Either DVI or component is darker and not as vivid as the old and good 6000.
Doesn't matter how many improvements it has, for me the bottom line is 6000 has a much better PQ.
Should I return my 811 or sell in e-Bay?


----------



## rjbu

I have both a 6000 and an 811, both connected to the same 16x9 HDTV via 2 component inputs; this makes A/B comparison easy. The 2 component inputs share all the same settings. 

If I tune to ESPN-HD (9424) or CNN (200) they usually have some text scrolling across the bottom of the screen. On the 6000 I can use the HDTV adjustment screen (menu-6-1-9-Adjust) to adjust the screen so that the scrolling text is completely visible. With the 811 I cannot adjust it enough to get all the text completely visible - maybe half the text is visible. 

I haven't seen any other reports of this issue. 
Is anyone else seeing this?


----------



## normang

I am assuming that the video darkness can be fixed in software, as I've said in several places, if you are having an issue, call Dish, describe your situtation and issue. If they don't know about an issue, they cannot fix it. While I am sure they have gotton a number of reports about the video issue, the more they get I would assume the more closely they look into resolving the issue


----------



## Nick

rjbu said:


> I have both a 6000 and an 811, both connected to the same 16x9 HDTV via 2 component inputs; this makes A/B comparison easy. The 2 component inputs share all the same settings.
> 
> If I tune to ESPN-HD (9424) or CNN (200) they usually have some text scrolling across the bottom of the screen. On the 6000 I can use the HDTV adjustment screen (menu-6-1-9-Adjust) to adjust the screen so that the scrolling text is completely visible. With the 811 I cannot adjust it enough to get all the text completely visible - maybe half the text is visible.
> 
> I haven't seen any other reports of this issue. Is anyone else seeing this?


rbju, with component out on my 811, the crawls at the bottom on both ESPN-HD and CNN appear normally, resting right on the bottom edge of my screen, as do the other crawls (MSNBC, CNBC...). The same holds true when the 811 is switched to s-video output.

It is certainly possible that some of the problems being reported with the 811 are, in fact, TV setting and/or adjustment issues. I do have some very minor geometry issues with my new Panasonic 53WX42 where crawls dip down slightly on the left side of the screen. This will be corrected when Gregg Loewen comes to tweak my set in February.

I have two Dishplayers (7200) that have been in service for over three years, and neither has had problems to the degree that some ppl have reported.

I don't know if I'm just lucky with E* receivers, but, with the exception of certain feature enablements, my 811 seems to be functioning as it should.

Maybe there is such a thing as technical karma. With the lottery I should be so lucky! 

(262)


----------



## zexel

I haven`t seen this posted before. Last night the pics on my 811 would freeze for a fraction of a second. This was happening on any channel and my 501 was not having any problem. Anyone else having this happen? Also had the audio dropout problem, had to reset to fix this.


----------



## DBSJedi

I am thinking of replacing my inferior 2700 receiver that is hooked in my TiVo with this receiver. Is anyone using it with a TiVo? I realize my TiVo wouldn't be able to record HD channels, but how well does this receiver work with the TiVo changing the stations on the receiver? 

Can I use the DVI-out of the receiver to my TV for watching live HD broadcasts, but all the while have the S-video out on the receiver sending a signal to my TiVo? Does the receiver spit out both S-video and DVI at the same time?


----------



## herni

I sent Dish an email regarding the OTA channels falling out of the guide, because this really bugs me. Now that the aspect ratio problem was fixed in the last software update, channels dropping out of the program guide and the 811 constantly having to "search for satellite signal" are the two most important issues with the receiver. Anyway, this was their response:

Thank you for your email correspondence. We are aware of the issue with the Over the Air locals dropping out of the guide intermittently. Although since the problem is new we do need more information about the problem and the receiver before our engineers can fix this. We would need you to call our Customer Service Center to troubleshoot and submit the report. We are not experiencing any issues with signal so you may also troubleshoot at that time. If you have any further questions or concerns please feel free to call us at: 1-800-333-3474.

Sincerely, 
Kevin F. 
Technical Support Dish Network


----------



## zonzin

Hey RJBU,, i use the zoom button to adjust the aspect (post 262) it works very well and i do see all scrolling text. I set the HDTV setup to be 16x9 and 1080i. The adjuctments aspect is then changed via remote. 

BTW,, is your last name ubry by any chance?


----------



## parlyle

I have a 508 and a 510. The 510 has gotten so bad at dropping out I notified Dish and they are sending me a replacement 510. Is this a common problem that is just developing on E* or am I the only one that has had to have a replacement? This is my first post so hope all gets out there for you.


----------



## normang

parlyle said:


> I have a 508 and a 510. The 510 has gotten so bad at dropping out I notified Dish and they are sending me a replacement 510. Is this a common problem that is just developing on E* or am I the only one that has had to have a replacement? This is my first post so hope all gets out there for you.


your post made it, however this topic is on the 811, not the 510, you can always start your own topic on any issue if you cannot find an active topic that relates to your specific question.

In response to your question though, sometimes there are hardware issues, with just about anything electronic. The symptom you describe has been reported before by others on occasion, though I have not seen it myself on my recievers. Dish is sending you a replacement, which more than likely will resolve the problem... have a good day..


----------



## Guest

I have been a dish subscriber for many years. I have had alot of recievers but this 811 is terrible.

Problems I've noted:

Constantly downloading guide in preview window

On a 4X3 standard def big screen feed by the s-video out, off air channels show up in a smaller 4X3 screen on the screen. I'm am told this is normal. Unacceptable.


The recall channel doesn't work between off air and sat channels.

When did it become acceptable to release a product that doesn't work? As far as I'm concerned this is unacceptable behavior.

I would like to discuss a class action suit against dish for the cost of the receiver and for the extra charge for the extra receiver along with punitive charges.


----------



## Guest

I got my 811 installed last Wednesday. I took advantage of Dish's offer for new customers which provided an 811 in our family room and the 301 in our bedroom for "free", plus 3 months of programming. 

The installation took two days. The first day they had to dig the hole for the pole and pour the cement. Then they had to string the wire (digging trench was 80 feet) around the house to the bedroom (total distance 95 feet). The second day they hooked up the receivers and installed the dish.

They fired it up and the 811 worked flawlessly. The 811 receiver's output is connected directly to my Daemon receiver. The video from the Dish receiver uses component video wires and digital optical audio wires. The Daemon receiver then sends the video signal, using component video out, to my HD front projector (Sanyo -PLV70) mounted on the ceiling. The audio is transmitted through the 5.1 surround sound audio system (Dolby and DTS)through the Daemon receiver. The image is projected to a DaLite 120 inch screen (16:9) that drops down from the ceiling. All other components also hook into the Daemon receiver, such as DVD, Laser Disc, VCR, cable TV (yes, we kept the cable TV), PlayStation, and music through my iPod.

The 811 produces an awesome HD picture on the HD Channels, like HBO, PPV and Discovery. All other channels come in clear and crisp, including locals. For those channels on Dish Network that broadcast in Dolby Digital, the sound quality is great!

After playing around with the 811, I noticed the local channels were located in the 9000 area (on the 301 receiver in the other room they appear as their normal numbers - 2, 4, 6, etc.) and the program menu only showed the programs for the next 4 hours. So, I placed a call to Dish Network support. They told me the 811 could take as long a 5 to 7 days to "map" the channel guide and download two weeks of programming. I'll see if this is true. The service at Dish support was very good - fast and knowledgeable.

Other than the above two minor problems, everything else works great! When a HD signal is received, the screen resolution automatically switches to 16:9. I do wish that DishNetwork would increase their HD programming (like Voom has) to include HD locals, and 32 other channels of HD programming. I'm glad that I did not shell out $1,000 for the PVR-921 since there is nothing to record anyway in HD on Dish Network.


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## Jerry G

donald said:


> I have been a dish subscriber for many years. I have had alot of recievers but this 811 is terrible.
> 
> I would like to discuss a class action suit against dish for the cost of the receiver and for the extra charge for the extra receiver along with punitive charges.


You're joking of course, aren't you?


----------



## Guest

Jerry G said:


> You're joking of course, aren't you?


class actions are a legal action in which a limited number of persons sue to vindicate the rights of a much larger class.

Clearly Dish has released a product to a large number of people and that product has intentionally failed to meet the standard of care required by the industry resulting in damages as a result of it's cost and it's on going fees.


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## Guest

Where is the cheapest place to get the 811 if your already a Dish customer?


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## BudShark

Dish - $199 or $149. Give them a call


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## Frostilicus

I Just spent 15 minutes trying to tune in Nickelodeon for my kid. powering off/on, unplugging and rebooting, switch checks... Getting kind of ridiculous. Every day seems to bring with it new weirdness in this receiver. Today's new weirdness was the satellite aim-lock tone being on all sd channels. Can't wait for tomorrow!


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## Mike Richardson

Good lord. Give it at least SOME time before you discuss lawsuits. This is DISH's primary HD receiver so it has to be good. Let some software updates roll around first.


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## JohnMI

Mike Richardson said:


> Good lord. Give it at least SOME time before you discuss lawsuits.


Agreed. The fact that Dish is actively working on fixing the issues would likely work greatly against his class action...



> This is DISH's primary HD receiver so it has to be good.


Well, the 6000 WAS their primary HD receiver... It wasn't always good. 



> Let some software updates roll around first.


Indeed! Hopefully Dish keeps them coming...

- John...


----------



## Jerry G

donald said:


> class actions are a legal action in which a limited number of persons sue to vindicate the rights of a much larger class.
> 
> Clearly Dish has released a product to a large number of people and that product has intentionally failed to meet the standard of care required by the industry resulting in damages as a result of it's cost and it's on going fees.


"Standard of care"? TV is not the health industry. Standard of care?

"Intentionally failed to meet..."? Please explain this.

"Damages"? What damages happened to you?

My 811 works fine. Sure, it needs some improvements that will come with future software updates. It has some glitches. It has some annoyances, cut it's working and in many ways, even with the glitches, it's preferable to the 6000.

And if you're not happy with it, why not return it? Are you being forced to keep something that is provoking a lawsuit?


----------



## joeydee

Jerry 42 said:


> Dish has been/is saying that they are working on the aspect ratio problem. In an e-mail response today they say the software update will be released "soon" - what ever that means in Dish talk, perhaps next week, next month ???. On an other thread some one was told the software update for this is P 263. My 811 shows the current software verison as P 261 so either P 262 is being passed or P 263 is still a ways a way.
> 
> BTW - Certain TVs over ride S-Video if Componet or DVI is active on that port - a problem if all your other inputs are used. So S-Video is not an answer to the aspect problem for ever one.


Not great news but it is something: Dish sent me an e-mail today stating that their engineers are working on the aspect ratio problem and to be patient. Of course patient is relative. Could be next week or it could be several months down the road. Let's hope it is soon or else I will not get the 811 and I am sure many others will do the same. Fingers crossed. :nono2:


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## clapple

Some of these postings leave me some what confused, as to what should be working, and which problems are just waiting for new software.

1. With my 811 connected to my AV receiver, by optical cable, I can not get any sound except when I selected "PCM Only"; and that is not surround sound. If I select either "Dolby Digital: or "Dolby Digital/PCM" all I get is a constant clicking noise.

2. I thought there was supposed to be a 48 hour On Screen Guide? I'm lucky to get 2 hours. It's worse than the 6000.

Does anyone else have these problems; or have these working properly? I am willing to wait for software upgrades; but if the receiver is defective, I want tp replace it.


----------



## clapple

joeydee said:


> Not great news but it is something: Dish sent me an e-mail today stating that their engineers are working on the aspect ratio problem and to be patient. Of course patient is relative. Could be next week or it could be several months down the road. Let's hope it is soon or else I will not get the 811 and I am sure many others will do the same. Fingers crossed. :nono2:


My aspect ratio problems were corrected by software Ver.262. Has your receiver been turned off, so it can accept the download?


----------



## Guest

clapple said:


> 1. With my 811 connected to my AV receiver, by optical cable, I can not get any sound except when I selected "PCM Only"; and that is not surround sound. If I select either "Dolby Digital: or "Dolby Digital/PCM" all I get is a constant clicking noise.


I have the same problem with my 811. Clearly other folks with 811's do not have this problem, so I'm guessing that we have bad hardware. See the thread I started here:

http://www.satelliteguys.us/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4328

matt.


----------



## Guest

Jerry G said:


> "Standard of care"? TV is not the health industry. Standard of care?
> 
> "Intentionally failed to meet..."? Please explain this.
> 
> "Damages"? What damages happened to you?
> 
> My 811 works fine. Sure, it needs some improvements that will come with future software updates. It has some glitches. It has some annoyances, cut it's working and in many ways, even with the glitches, it's preferable to the 6000.
> 
> And if you're not happy with it, why not return it? Are you being forced to keep something that is provoking a lawsuit?


Standard of care refers to customary standards based on industry. For example, does sony release a tv that displays the picture as a small box within the picture screen and when queried represent that is what it is supposed to do? Standard of care has nothing to do with health care exclusively.

Intentionally failed to meet means that dish released the receiver with knowledge of the flaws. It intentionally represented the receiver as ready for consumption when in fact it had known flaws.

Damages are real financial burdens placed on me by DISH when they represented that their receiver was fully operational and functioned as described in the user manual. When, in fact, it didn't. They have charged us for the cost of the receiver as well as on-going fees as though the receiver operated as described. When it doesn't.

I am seeking only a fair trade. That is my money for a receiver that operates as described in the manual and as presented in advertising on the web.


----------



## Guest

Mike Richardson said:


> Good lord. Give it at least SOME time before you discuss lawsuits. This is DISH's primary HD receiver so it has to be good. Let some software updates roll around first.


I pay promptly for service when I ordered the product and I pay promptly every month for the service. I am requesting only that dish provide what they promise for my money. Promptly as they required from me.


----------



## kstevens

donald said:


> Standard of care refers to customary standards based on industry. For example, does sony release a tv that displays the picture as a small box within the picture screen and when queried represent that is what it is supposed to do? Standard of care has nothing to do with health care exclusively.
> 
> Intentionally failed to meet means that dish released the receiver with knowledge of the flaws. It intentionally represented the receiver as ready for consumption when in fact it had known flaws.
> 
> Damages are real financial burdens placed on me by DISH when they represented that their receiver was fully operational and functioned as described in the user manual. When, in fact, it didn't. They have charged us for the cost of the receiver as well as on-going fees as though the receiver operated as described. When it doesn't.
> 
> I am seeking only a fair trade. That is my money for a receiver that operates as described in the manual and as presented in advertising on the web.


Give me a break!! You know, you really need to get a life.

Ken


----------



## BobaBird

KenO said:


> After playing around with the 811, I noticed the local channels were located in the 9000 area (on the 301 receiver in the other room they appear as their normal numbers - 2, 4, 6, etc.) and the program menu only showed the programs for the next 4 hours.


Your 301 also has locals in the 9000 area. They are not remapped to the broadcast numbers in the 811 because it has a built-in broadcast tuner that will be using those numbers.


> So, I placed a call to Dish Network support. They told me the 811 could take as long a 5 to 7 days to "map" the channel guide and download two weeks of programming. I'll see if this is true. The service at Dish support was very good - fast and knowledgeable.


I don't recall anyone saying the remapping - in receivers capable of it - taking longer than the next day. Dish does not offer 2 weeks of guide on even their DVRs, the 811 is supposed to hold 2 days per their spec sheet. At least you got "fast."


----------



## Nick

After two so-called "Friday macro" 811 downloads and 3-4 calls to Dish techs, I still cannot "see" 9425 or 9466. Someone here previously said they were getting the Dish logo and music on those channels during times when no programming was scheduled.

Also, on the EPG, neither channel is in the "red", indicating the channels are in my subscription package and should be available to me.

Would anyone who _*is*_ getting the Dish logo and music on their 811 during non-programming slots on 9425 or 9466 please respond...???

tia

Nick


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## Guest

Just got mine yesterday. As prev. noted aspect ratio is bad on my 36" XBR 4 X 3. I called cust. service and after talking to 3 people I was told that it was a known problem and they were working on it. I asked how long and the last CSR told me they didn't know. I asked for some relief and they offered to take back all of the equip. and let me go back to Direct TV.

If they don't have it fixed by 12/31, I will take their gracious offer and go back to Direct TV.

As a side note, Direct TV's customer support blows Dish Network away.


----------



## installerjeff

PoppaNovember said:


> My 811 was installed yesterday. Long-ish BLOG follows:
> 
> INSTALLATION
> 
> It was pretty evident that this was the tech's first 811 install. He hooked the box up and checked the signals, but the box didn't seem to want to start the initial download even though I had a pretty good signal on both 119 and 110. So, after a brief consult w/dish, he replaced both of my ancient SW-21 switches and all of the outside connectors. Still, the unit wouldn't download.
> 
> The tech is about ready to give up, and even calls dish to suggest a re-schedule with another box, but just as he's about to throw in the towel the download starts. Good thing too, because I'd have been pissed about wasting a day off from work for this install.
> 
> To this point, the tech had only hooked up the S vid cable, and hadn't put the component cable on (my TV only has component HD). The tech is now 3 hours into this install, and clearly ready to leave. He has me sign the paperwork and splits after a perfunctory check of the system, and no explanation of how the HD functions work for satellite and OTA stations. I let him leave though because I'd rather just figure the thing out myself anyway. Expecially considering that the tech didn't even know that the HD package was available on 110.
> 
> All told, the install was a fairly frustrating, but ultimately successful experience, plus I ended up getting my outside connections overhauled + 2 new switches as a bonus.
> 
> USING THE 811
> 
> Once the unit was up and running, I found it to be quite user friendly. The guide is fast, although the split mode for the guide seems to fail a lot. The remote worked fine for me. I was able to program it to operate my TV, audio reciever, and VCR with minimal loss of commonly used remote commands.
> 
> The OTA digital and analog search was simple. I found 8 OTA digital channels using my rooftop fishbone antenna. My reception goes from 40 % to 90+ % signal strength. I'm getting the ABC, FOX, CBS, NBC and UPN stations in the DC area, but oddly I'm not getting the local PBS station.
> 
> I wasn't happy with the sound I was getting from the OTA analog channels, plus the 811 isn't displaying the show titles that get broadcasted with the analog signals. Finally, the system froze up when I was switching back and forth between analog and digital. Consequently, I ended up deleting all of the analog channels from the 811 list. I'll continue to watch the analog through my direct antenna feed and save the 811 for the ota digital locals. I was hoping, though, to find a way to have show titles appear in the program guide for the ota digital channels. I'm sure they are broadcast with the digital signal.
> 
> The Dish HD channels are phenomenal - especially Discovery HD. I never thought I'd be so enthralled by the "Rivers of Canada". Hockey looks good on HDNET, and the movies on HDNET movie look good as well, but the movie selection so far is of no interest to me. My wife was underwhelmed with the picture of her Arizona basketball game on ESPNHD until I put the non-HD version of the game in the PIP and flipped back and forth. Once she saw the difference, she was convinced.
> 
> Other than the one system freeze, that seemed to be related to OTA analog, my only mishap was a temporary loss of digital audio. The only way I was able to get the audio back was to unplug the unit.
> 
> HERE'S THE BEEF
> 
> Just a couple of design beefs: I would have liked to see a component video feed-through on the 811, because now I have no HD slot available on my TV for my XBOX since I only have 2 and I'm using the other one for my DVD - gonna have to buy an external switch. And I could have used one more AUX device function on the remote so I could control my DVD player.
> 
> On the software side, I'd like to see the split mode channel guide work more often - the current channel video often doesn't want to load. Plus I'd like to be able to switch from wide-screen back to full screen on occasion - the full screen selection in the HD menu setting won't switch off of wide screen.
> 
> SURVEY SAYS
> 
> Overall, I'm very happy with the 811. $149 well spent!


i installed an 811 on 12/16/03 and i had the same problem on downloading. it took 30 min to start. i was getting upset and even hard booted the system. i called our dealer and told him of the problem and he thought i might have a setting wrong on the 811. i will check on my next install and let you know my findings.

jeff


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## Nick

Nick said:


> After two so-called "Friday macro" 811 downloads and 3-4 calls to Dish techs, I still cannot "see" 9425 or 9466. Someone here previously said they were getting the Dish logo and music on those channels during times when no programming was scheduled.
> .
> Also, on the EPG, neither channel is in the "red", indicating the channels are in my subscription package and should be available to me.
> 
> Would anyone who _*is*_ getting the Dish logo and music on their 811 during non-programming slots on 9425 or 9466 please respond...???


Well, 16 days after the 811 install I get to watch NBA-TV in HD -- finally!. I get it from both 61.5 and 110.

I don't just see the floorboards on the court, I see the _wood grain_ in the floorboards on the court.

Woo Hoo! I love HD. :grin:


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## DBSJedi

Nick said:


> Well, 16 days after the 811 install I get to watch NBA-TV in HD -- finally!. I get it from both 61.5 and 110.
> 
> I don't just see the floorboards on the court, I see the _wood grain_ in the floorboards on the court.
> 
> Woo Hoo! I love HD. :grin:


Do installers need to come to my apt? Technically I am waivered for an address I don't live at anymore and I am afraid if I can't install this myself, Dish will find out when they send the installers.


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## joeydee

clapple said:


> My aspect ratio problems were corrected by software Ver.262. Has your receiver been turned off, so it can accept the download?


 Thanks for the reply. I have not yet purchased the 811 but was concerned that the aspect ratio problem would continue after reading the posts here on this forum. It is good news to hear that they have been corrected but it seems that other people have not had theirs corrected. Could be as you stated that they have not turned off units. Is your televsion 4.3? What was the original problem you were experiencing and how was it corrected by the software? How long have you had your unit? Thanks.


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## Guest

What is the right order for the Swicth to connect the LNB cables to it from a SuperDish antenna?
Right now, I have:
119--->Input 1
110--->Input 2
105--->Input 3
Signal strengh bar is variable from day to day. But these are the averages:
119--->110
110--->66
105--->55
The Transponder used is 11.
Some channels on the 110 sat, are unable to see, even though on the EPG are shown. The message obtained is:
ERROR 002
Channel: 825
Sat:110
Transponder:3
When I go: MENU-6-1-1 (Setup)
The transponder is on 3. I change the transponder to 11, run a check switch, does the 3 out of 3 tests, and the error comes back at the same transponder 3 with wrong satellite and no signal in the signal bar.
What can I do to LOCK a satellite transponder?
The rest of the channels have Transponder 11 or 17 or 18 sometimes. Is this normal?
On the top of that, HDNet and HDNetMovies are just BLACK SCREENS showing the channel info. No picture at all. I called CSRV and wasted 30 min on the line, doing the same things, and no results. The CSRV gave up and hung me up. That is just great! (Nice touch, by the way!)
What can I do to display those channels with the right transponder?
And If there has to be an specific order to connect the switch?
When they came to install the SDish (their first one, too!) said the order wasn't a big deal.
Everyday I have to reset the 811 either by unplugging it, pressing the ON button on the receiver for 10 secs or insert a card in the front slot and do all that circus of checking the switch.
Thanks for your comments and/or possible answers.
Baldur


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## ElroyJ

I got the new software and the strech modes are OK for stretching horizontally, but I don't understand why an SD channel if the setting is set to a 4x3 TV type can not be stretched keeing the aspect ratio and fill the hole 4x3 screen as a normal picture, strech both horizontal and vertical. If the content is orginally 4x3 then the 811 should allow 4x3 even when using the componant or DVI output.

The grey bars are also stupid in that they have a black border in between the bars and the picture. Personally the aspect ratio changes they made are not much of a plus for me. The picture is still dark using any outputs you choose, componant, S or DVI. Almost as if there is no contrast on any of the blacks. This has to be fixed and should be the number one priority for DISH. Second should be the guide and getting 2 days worth of data so it doesn't say getting data everytime the channel is changed off of OTA channels.


----------



## clapple

joeydee said:


> Thanks for the reply. I have not yet purchased the 811 but was concerned that the aspect ratio problem would continue after reading the posts here on this forum. It is good news to hear that they have been corrected but it seems that other people have not had theirs corrected. Could be as you stated that they have not turned off units. Is your televsion 4.3? What was the original problem you were experiencing and how was it corrected by the software? How long have you had your unit? Thanks.


Have had the 811 about two weeks. Until the software upgrade, I could not strech the picture, to fill my 19 X 9 screen. Now I have the same 5 screen options as the 6000.


----------



## shankar

ElroyJ said:


> I got the new software and the strech modes are OK for stretching horizontally, but I don't understand why an SD channel if the setting is set to a 4x3 TV type can not be stretched keeing the aspect ratio and fill the hole 4x3 screen as a normal picture, strech both horizontal and vertical. If the content is orginally 4x3 then the 811 should allow 4x3 even when using the componant or DVI output.
> 
> The grey bars are also stupid in that they have a black border in between the bars and the picture. Personally the aspect ratio changes they made are not much of a plus for me. The picture is still dark using any outputs you choose, componant, S or DVI. Almost as if there is no contrast on any of the blacks. This has to be fixed and should be the number one priority for DISH. Second should be the guide and getting 2 days worth of data so it doesn't say getting data everytime the channel is changed off of OTA channels.


 Elroy,

The 811 does do that! I have 4:3 TV that does not have the "squeeze" function. 4:3 option 2 in the HDTV set up for the 811. When I check this option, all HD programs are letterboxed and the 4:3 SD programs fill the screen.

What type is your 4:3? Is it option 1 (with squeeze) or option 2 (without squeeze).

The other option you may want to try is when watching a 4:3 program, change the aspect ratio till you get to the stretch mode. When watching a HD channel, switch till you get to letter box. From then on, you should be OK. The player will understand that a SD channel should be in stretch mode and a HD channel should be in letterbox.

In my case, though I have a 4:3 (type 2), I have told the 811 that I use a 16:9 TV. This is because, the letterbox image, eventhough is in original aspect ratio (OAR), suffers a 25% loss in resolution since the player has to drop every 4th scan line to fit the letterbox. So, I end up watching a slightly stretched image vertically, but I don't mind. It displays all 1080 scan lines.

So, I watch HD under "normal" mode and SD channels in stretch mode and in each case the image fills the screen.


----------



## JohnMI

DBSJedi said:


> Do installers need to come to my apt? Technically I am waivered for an address I don't live at anymore and I am afraid if I can't install this myself, Dish will find out when they send the installers.


I am fairly certain that if you are trying to do one of the 811 deals (either the $199/$149 for existing customers or one of the new customer plans), that Dish absolutely will not send you an 811 without them installing it. I've seen other threads of people trying to get Dish to just ship it to them and, in all cases that I saw, Dish refused.

- John...


----------



## wdowns

Dish requires the 811 to be installed and will not mail one for self installation under the 149/199 promo (this is from the Exec Support Office).


----------



## ElroyJ

shankar said:


> Elroy,
> 
> The 811 does do that! I have 4:3 TV that does not have the "squeeze" function. 4:3 option 2 in the HDTV set up for the 811. When I check this option, all HD programs are letterboxed and the 4:3 SD programs fill the screen.
> 
> What type is your 4:3? Is it option 1 (with squeeze) or option 2 (without squeeze).


I tried 4:3 option 1 and 2 and neither filled the screen like my other non HD box. I think option 2 stretched the screen vertically but left bars on the right and left. On Option 1 stretches horizontally and leaves bars on the top and bottom.

My TV is a Sony 36XBR800. I assume it is option 1 with squeeze but not exaclty sure. So my TV is the reason that I can't get a full 4x3 normal picture?


----------



## joeydee

ElroyJ said:


> I tried 4:3 option 1 and 2 and neither filled the screen like my other non HD box. I think option 2 stretched the screen vertically but left bars on the right and left. On Option 1 stretches horizontally and leaves bars on the top and bottom.
> 
> My TV is a Sony 36XBR800. I assume it is option 1 with squeeze but not exaclty sure. So my TV is the reason that I can't get a full 4x3 normal picture?


 Guys, pardon the question but please explain what the squeeze or not squeeze has to do with the 4.3 aspect ratio and filling the screen. I have a 51 inch Sony RPTV and it does squeeze and the manual says so. I have not yet obtained an 811 due to the fact that I have read the posts stating that SD does not fill the 4.3 screen. Will I be able to fill the screen based on what you guys have found out? Besides the aspect ration concerns how do you like the HD picture? Thanks, appreciate your info.


----------



## Nick

On my 811, the HD pic using component cables is amazingly clear and crisp. The colors and the detail are beautiful on my Panny 53" widescreen. HDNet, DiscHD and some of the movies are breathtakingly lush and rich. IMO, ESPN-HD isn't quite ready for primetime, but better than SD.

Viewing upconverted SD channels through component connections, the pic is 4:3 and I can't see much, if any improvement over SD using S-video outs/ins, but OTOH, the pic on my display isn't as dark as some others have described. 

I'm very happy with the 811 and am eager for Dish to step up to the HD plate with more HD channel/channel offerings. I saw a new VOOM spot on HDNet today and am going to take another look at what they have. Now that I have HD, it's all about the content.

YMMV


----------



## Guest

My 61" Mitsubishi shows a smaller 4X3 within the screen. It shows a "letterbox" when in 16X9. This is via the s-vid out.

Dish tech support tells me this is normal and what it is supposed to do????

Very frustrating.




joeydee said:


> Guys, pardon the question but please explain what the squeeze or not squeeze has to do with the 4.3 aspect ratio and filling the screen. I have a 51 inch Sony RPTV and it does squeeze and the manual says so. I have not yet obtained an 811 due to the fact that I have read the posts stating that SD does not fill the 4.3 screen. Will I be able to fill the screen based on what you guys have found out? Besides the aspect ration concerns how do you like the HD picture? Thanks, appreciate your info.


----------



## shankar

joeydee said:


> Guys, pardon the question but please explain what the squeeze or not squeeze has to do with the 4.3 aspect ratio and filling the screen. I have a 51 inch Sony RPTV and it does squeeze and the manual says so. I have not yet obtained an 811 due to the fact that I have read the posts stating that SD does not fill the 4.3 screen. Will I be able to fill the screen based on what you guys have found out? Besides the aspect ration concerns how do you like the HD picture? Thanks, appreciate your info.


 As I said before, first generation HD Ready 4:3 sets such as my Toshiba TN61x81 do not have the ability to squeeze the incoming 1080i signal. Hence, to retain the OAR the set has to revert to letter box mode and in that process it sheds 1/4th of the scan lines. the sets that do the squeeze can retain OAR without having to lose resolution.

Have you tried the stretch mode for the SD channels?? I watch all SD channels such as CNN in stretch mode and I have no problems?


----------



## shankar

donald said:


> My 61" Mitsubishi shows a smaller 4X3 within the screen. It shows a "letterbox" when in 16X9. This is via the s-vid out.
> 
> Dish tech support tells me this is normal and what it is supposed to do????
> 
> Very frustrating.


 If you want to see HD then you have to get component out or DVI, not the S Video. S Video will be standard definition.


----------



## shankar

ElroyJ said:


> My TV is a Sony 36XBR800. I assume it is option 1 with squeeze but not exaclty sure. So my TV is the reason that I can't get a full 4x3 normal picture?


 Here's the CNet and Crutchfield review of your TV:



CNET said:


> Sony's top-of-the-line, 36-inch, digital TV is called the FD Trinitron Wega XBR Hi-Scan KV-36XBR800, and it lists for $2,300. The flurry of minibrand names indicates that Sony has put its latest HDTV technology behind the big, flat tube, resulting in one of the best-performing televisions that you can buy. Like all 4:3 sets however, it uses letterbox bars when displaying 16:9 content such as DVD and HDTV.





crutchfield said:


> While over 90% of U.S. households have access to at least one digital TV signal, most of us will continue to watch regular analog material for a while, too. Sony's solution is to combine a standard 4:3 aspect ratio screen with their ingenious 16:9 Enhanced viewing mode. 16:9 Enhanced mode engages automatically when the TV senses a widescreen source - HDTV broadcasts and "anamorphic" DVDs are displayed in a 16:9 window. This approach preserves maximum picture detail on widescreen formats because all of the TV's scanning lines are concentrated in the 16:9 window and none are wasted on the non-usable portion of the screen (the black bars above and below the picture area).


 So, your Tv seems to be one with anamorphic squeeze capability, option 2. However, normally it appears that it can show HD programming only in a 16:9 window and not fill your screen.

I just went down and checked the options. As far as I can see the 811 does not seem to differentiate between the 16:9 and 4:3 option 1. The available choices are the same (normal, stretch, partial zoom, full zoom and gray bar). For 4:2 option 2 , I get letterbox and stretch.

However, when I picked 4:3 option 1 I fill the screen with HD (Mondya night football on ABC, CSI on CBS, HDNet, HBOHD, Discovery HD) with Normal, and fill the screen with SD (CNN, MTV..) with stretch.

I guess my solution may not work with your TV, but from what I have read from AVS Forum, the stretch option should work.


----------



## fixoman

ESPN HD is an up convert of what is being aired on channel 140. If ESPN is televising in HD there should be an ESPN HD icon on the screen. You can go to ESPN HD and download their complete HD program schedule


Nick said:


> On my 811, the HD pic using component cables is amazingly clear and crisp. The colors and the detail are beautiful on my Panny 53" widescreen. HDNet, DiscHD and some of the movies are breathtakingly lush and rich. IMO, ESPN-HD isn't quite ready for primetime, but better than SD.
> 
> Viewing upconverted SD channels through component connections, the pic is 4:3 and I can't see much, if any improvement over SD using S-video outs/ins, but OTOH, the pic on my display isn't as dark as some others have described.
> 
> I'm very happy with the 811 and am eager for Dish to step up to the HD plate with more HD channel/channel offerings. I saw a new VOOM spot on HDNet today and am going to take another look at what they have. Now that I have HD, it's all about the content.
> 
> YMMV


----------



## fixoman

Bob Saylor said:


> I don't know if it's rare but a lot of folks have the problem, including me. I don't know if there will be a fix or not


I to am having the same problem with the composite hook up. But when the P262 upgrade was downloaded I had no need for that connection so now I only run DVI. The Up convert Is not all that great but a heck of lot better than what you get from composite. But the HD channels are breath taking with DVI. Also invest about 100.00 in a good "monster" cable.


----------



## ElroyJ

Ok I am still wondering. When you guys say that a 4x3 program fills the screen you are referring to the whole 4x3 screen correct. If the program is in HD and 16x9 then I expect black bars on top and bottom. I don't have a problem with that. When I stretch an SD program I get rid of the black bars on the sides, but not the top and bottom. I would expect the stretch to stretch right and left and top and bottom since my TV is a 4x3 TV and the content is 4x3 then it should completely fill the 4x3 screen. This is all through the DVI output.


----------



## Nick

I wouldn't waste my money on Monster cables. They charge exhorbitant prices based on nothing more than marketing hype. If you buy the hype, then you have been taken.

Excellent quality cables are available for a lot less $$$.


----------



## JohnMI

I was just going to say what Nick said after I read fixoman's post. Don't pay for the Monster cables -- or anything that pricey. $100 for a DVI cable is crazy money. It's marketing hype, fixoman, sorry... 

- John...


----------



## johnny_b

I called Dish last week and asked the advanced support tech about the high black level issue with the S-Video on the 811. (Picture is extremely dark). They said that it was not a known receiver issue and they asked me to submit an "unknown trend report" on this. They took down all my reciever info and said it would go directly to the engineers. I thought that when they get enough of these reports they will address this issue. I called DISH up yesterday and he said that it still is not on his list of known problems. I can get into the service menu on my TV and setting the black level to its brightest setting still does not help. I believe DISH is avoiding this issue by not putting it on their list of KNOWN 811 PROBLEMS. I consider this to be the biggest problem with the 811. So please, If you have this problem with your 811, please call DISH tech support to let them know and be sure to fill out an "unknown trend report," so this problem will be addressed.


----------



## heirway

This morning I received the 2.63 software update. I am not able to see any obvious changes. I did check and noticed that the OTA channel mapping issue was not fixed.


----------



## JohnMI

At least they seem to be pushing out the updates on a frequent basis. At least indicates work in progress... It's only been 7 days since 262.

- John...


----------



## zexel

Has anyone seen where the update has addressed any of the many problems this receiver has? So far I have seen no improvement, if thats the case why bother with an update?


----------



## osxguy

With 2.63 I'm now able to use the recall button to switch between OTA digital and sat. channels. I wasn't with 2.62.

matt.


----------



## shankar

osxguy said:


> With 2.63 I'm now able to use the recall button to switch between OTA digital and sat. channels. I wasn't with 2.62.
> 
> matt.


 That does not work for me??? I see the 2.63 as my current software version.


----------



## Guest

If you have a 4 X 3 TV, The 811 Sucks! SD should fill the screen. They only do that if you have 480p selected and streach the f...ing screen. My Direct TV SD filled the screen perfectly. Dish's SD doesn't look that good either. I have a Sony XBR 36" Top of the line 4 X 3 TV. I don't think it's my TV's problem. 

I called Disk again and they still know it's a known problem and are working on a fix. How hard is it to fix? Maybe it's too early to adopt HD with Dish! 12/31 it goes back if not fixed.

Hello, Direct TV...Yea, ok I'll buy your HD reciever. At least it works!


----------



## kstevens

stroudtx said:


> If you have a 4 X 3 TV, The 811 Sucks! SD should fill the screen. They only do that if you have 480p selected and streach the f...ing screen. My Direct TV SD filled the screen perfectly. Dish's SD doesn't look that good either. I have a Sony XBR 36" Top of the line 4 X 3 TV. I don't think it's my TV's problem.
> 
> I called Disk again and they still know it's a known problem and are working on a fix. How hard is it to fix? Maybe it's too early to adopt HD with Dish! 12/31 it goes back if not fixed.
> 
> Hello, Direct TV...Yea, ok I'll buy your HD reciever. At least it works!


Why don't you just return it now to spare us from you inflamatory posts?

Ken


----------



## DBSJedi

My question remains... how well will the 811 work for regular programming (non-HD) hooked to my TiVo? The TiVo will have to change the channel by infrared. Is this possible? Should I call the TiVo people? Would they know? I'll throw my question out to the TiVocommunity also.


----------



## herni

Am I the only one with this problem. It seems that at least once a day I have to run the check switch function in order for my 811 to pick up certain channels like ESPN HD, Discovery HD and others like Cinemax, VH1 Classic, etc. This is pretty annoying and very frustrating. I know it can't be the intall because my 301 receiver in my bedroom workds perfect. Any advice? Also, I have my guide set to show the program I was watching when I hit the guide button on the remote. However, when I do this, I get a black box with the words "Search for satellite signal." And then if I am lucky, after about a minute, the program pops up in the guide. How can I fix these two very annoying issues?


----------



## lionsrule

herni said:


> Am I the only one with this problem. It seems that at least once a day I have to run the check switch function in order for my 811 to pick up certain channels like ESPN HD, Discovery HD and others like Cinemax, VH1 Classic, etc. This is pretty annoying and very frustrating. I know it can't be the intall because my 301 receiver in my bedroom workds perfect. Any advice? Also, I have my guide set to show the program I was watching when I hit the guide button on the remote. However, when I do this, I get a black box with the words "Search for satellite signal." And then if I am lucky, after about a minute, the program pops up in the guide. How can I fix these two very annoying issues?


I too also get the check switch error message. It is VERY frustrating. At least once a day as soon as I switch channels from hd to a local channel or any other sd station I MUST spend 2 to 4 minutes messing with the check switch crap. Solutions???!!!??


----------



## Baldur

I am experiencing this problem more than once a day.
Every day I have to run the check switch and in the way, I lost HDNET and HDNETMOVIES and some other channels in the 800's. So it's not only the check switch thing, it's the "unplug" the receiver, wait, and then run the check switch.
It's getting frustrating. I guess we just have to live with it until new updates will take care of these issues.
Baldur


----------



## lesmoss

Baldur said:


> I am experiencing this problem more than once a day.
> Every day I have to run the check switch and in the way, I lost HDNET and HDNETMOVIES and some other channels in the 800's. So it's not only the check switch thing, it's the "unplug" the receiver, wait, and then run the check switch.
> It's getting frustrating. I guess we just have to live with it until new updates will take care of these issues.
> Baldur


I am seeing this problem also, even after v263 software update. My installer came today to install a new switch (SW21). I will see if that has any effect.

In my case, its loosing the 110 sat, but 119 and 61.5 are OK. I have only seen the problem when initially powering on the 811. Its like the switch needs to be "warmed up".

Is everyone here who sees this problem using a 2 dish setup with an SW21??


----------



## kstevens

lesmoss said:


> I am seeing this problem also, even after v263 software update. My installer came today to install a new switch (SW21). I will see if that has any effect.
> In my case, its llosing the 110 sat, but 119 and 61.5 are OK.
> 
> Is everyone here who sees this problem using a 2 dish setup with an SW21??


I've had no problems with this, I'm using a sw64.

Ken


----------



## bobiii

I have no more problems with the switches. I'm using the sw-34. I used to have the problem of checking switch only when first turning on in the morning. 
I do still have the problem of no digital sound through the toslink to my Kenwood 5.1 receiver. Only PCM sound works.


----------



## lesmoss

bobiii said:


> I have no more problems with the switches. I'm using the sw-34. I used to have the problem of checking switch only when first turning on in the morning.


What was your switch configuration when you had that problem?


----------



## Guest

lesmoss said:


> I am seeing this problem also, even after v263 software update. My installer came today to install a new switch (SW21). I will see if that has any effect.
> 
> In my case, its loosing the 110 sat, but 119 and 61.5 are OK. I have only seen the problem when initially powering on the 811. Its like the switch needs to be "warmed up".
> 
> Is everyone here who sees this problem using a 2 dish setup with an SW21??


I've been having problems with my 6000 and now my 811. Frequent picture freezes / MPEG blocking and when it's really bad the "Acquiring Satellite Signal" box comes on, sometimes for 30 min if I don't kick start it. This is the reason I took advantage of the 811 upgrade offer (my wife couldn't handle our 3 year old's frustration when NOGGIN flaked out any more.) Problem follows both the 6000 and 811 when swapping locations. Model 5000 owned since '97 rock solid in both locations. So I feel that coax runs are good from the SW21's down. I don't get any check switch message, but results are errattic when performing the switch test. Sometimes it identfies SW21's and everything looks correct, other times 1/2 the switch box results will be filled with x's. Got out the ladder today to check connections at the chimney top, everything looked okay. In the next couple of days I'm planning on barrelling out the SW21's in an attempt to isolate the problem further. Seems to be much more pronounced on 119 than 110 though, making me suspect the 119 LNBF.

Do the SW21's have a reputation of going bad? Why are so many on eBay? Would DishPro LNBF's offer any advantage?


----------



## bobiii

lesmoss said:


> What was your switch configuration when you had that problem?


It was the same switch 34. Only happened when first turning on in the morning. It had to happen while I was at work and had to talk the wife in how to do the check switch over the phone! What a pain! I haven't had the problem since download 262.


----------



## shankar

stroudtx said:


> If you have a 4 X 3 TV, The 811 Sucks! SD should fill the screen. They only do that if you have 480p selected and streach the f...ing screen. My Direct TV SD filled the screen perfectly. Dish's SD doesn't look that good either. I have a Sony XBR 36" Top of the line 4 X 3 TV. I don't think it's my TV's problem.
> 
> I called Disk again and they still know it's a known problem and are working on a fix. How hard is it to fix? Maybe it's too early to adopt HD with Dish! 12/31 it goes back if not fixed.
> 
> Hello, Direct TV...Yea, ok I'll buy your HD reciever. At least it works!


 I have a 61" 4:3 TV and SD fills the screen with the 2.62 update. I have replied to Elroy in this thread before.


----------



## Guest

Got my 811 installed yesterday and I am impressed.
The pix.is much better than the 6000 and the scrolling through channels is really fast.
The only gripe I have is when changing over the air channels if the signal is low the tuning bar disappears and a pop up appears saying the signal is low please adjust your antenna it's hard to adjust the antenna if there is no on screen tuning indicator. On the 6000 the the bar stayed on screen even if the signal was zero so you could adjust for max signal.
I called Dish and they started a tech problem report and asked me to have everyone who finds this a problem to call tech service and add their name and it would move the fix closer to the top.
Walt


----------



## Bobby94928

Walt said:


> Got my 811 installed yesterday and I am impressed.
> The pix.is much better than the 6000 and the scrolling through channels is really fast.
> The only gripe I have is when changing over the air channels if the signal is low the tuning bar disappears and a pop up appears saying the signal is low please adjust your antenna it's hard to adjust the antenna if there is no on screen tuning indicator. On the 6000 the the bar stayed on screen even if the signal was zero so you could adjust for max signal.
> I called Dish and they started a tech problem report and asked me to have everyone who finds this a problem to call tech service and add their name and it would move the fix closer to the top.
> Walt


There is an easy work-around to this. Just go into the menu, input 6-1-5, input "Add DTV", left click, and input the digital channel you'd like to do an antenna tune-up on. You will get the tuning bar for several minutes this way instead of just a few seconds.


----------



## shankar

Walt said:


> Got my 811 installed yesterday and I am impressed.
> The pix.is much better than the 6000 and the scrolling through channels is really fast.
> The only gripe I have is when changing over the air channels if the signal is low the tuning bar disappears and a pop up appears saying the signal is low please adjust your antenna it's hard to adjust the antenna if there is no on screen tuning indicator. On the 6000 the the bar stayed on screen even if the signal was zero so you could adjust for max signal.
> I called Dish and they started a tech problem report and asked me to have everyone who finds this a problem to call tech service and add their name and it would move the fix closer to the top.
> Walt


 Yes, it is a problem. However, I noticed that as I turn the antenna and the signal picks up, the station pops in. I usually adjust the antenna when the channel is visible, use the right arrow key to display the meter and adjust for max strength. Luckliy, I have to point in one direction only.


----------



## Guest

Someone was asking about Tivo and 811. I got mine working great, I've hooked the SVideo into my Tivo, using IR Blaster to control the unit, and everything seems to be working great. It even records the down converted format of my HD channels!


----------



## johnnydish

I had the dish 811 installed on Dec. 24th, worked great . Last night after about 45min. of watching TV, I've lost ALL AUDIO, from tv speakers as well as my DENON surround sound. Checked all connections, seem fine. I tried a movie via DVD, It works. My Audio input for the Dish is Optical, I'm wondering if the 811 unit has already went defective, I'm going to replace the optical cable, If that doesn't work, well , I'm not sure what else to do. Any suggestions or advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks


----------



## Scottie318

I have been having continuous remote control problems with the 811 for the last few days. I am using the standard remote shipped with the receiever. I have changed batteries a few times. The strange thing is the remote controls the television's volume and on/off perfectly, but cannot communicate with the receiever at all. Can anyone help me out?


----------



## lesmoss

Scottie318 said:


> I have been having continuous remote control problems with the 811 for the last few days. I am using the standard remote shipped with the receiever. I have changed batteries a few times. The strange thing is the remote controls the television's volume and on/off perfectly, but cannot communicate with the receiever at all. Can anyone help me out?


Make sure you attached the antenna.

Try moving the antenna to a different angle.

Try putting the antenna in a better position using an extension cable.


----------



## Scottie318

Thanks for the advice. Shortly after I posted, I changed batteries for the the THIRD time this week. Believe it or not, the 811 remote seems to be draining the battery power every so two days. I have no idea what's causing this.


----------



## Guest

I have the same problem. If you reset the 811 by holding down the power button for ten seconds it will start working again, at least for a few hours.



johnnydish said:


> I had the dish 811 installed on Dec. 24th, worked great . Last night after about 45min. of watching TV, I've lost ALL AUDIO, from tv speakers as well as my DENON surround sound. Checked all connections, seem fine. I tried a movie via DVD, It works. My Audio input for the Dish is Optical, I'm wondering if the 811 unit has already went defective, I'm going to replace the optical cable, If that doesn't work, well , I'm not sure what else to do. Any suggestions or advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks


----------



## johnnydish

Thanks Donald, it worked, How often does yours go out? Is there a permanant fix on the way? Or is this something that we have to deal with? Once again...Thanks


----------



## shankar

johnnydish said:


> Thanks Donald, it worked, How often does yours go out? Is there a permanant fix on the way? Or is this something that we have to deal with? Once again...Thanks


 Losing audi with the 811 seems like an issue with all. Lot's of users are discussing this. Hopefully they'll fix it soon.


----------



## kstevens

shankar said:


> Losing audi with the 811 seems like an issue with all. Lot's of users are discussing this. Hopefully they'll fix it soon.


I haven't lost the audio yet, how long do you have it on before you lose it?

Ken


----------



## johnnydish

I lost mine after about 3 Hrs of use.


----------



## Antoneo

I've lost the audio (on HDTV channels) at one point today as well. Seemed random as I turned the 811 off for an hour and the audio for HDTV channels wasn't working when it was turned back off. Unplugging the receiver for a bit worked.


----------



## Guest

It seems to occur if your using the optical out from the receiver. Mine does it at random every hour or so. It takes a reset to get it going again...


----------



## Guest

donald said:


> It seems to occur if your using the optical out from the receiver. Mine does it at random every hour or so. It takes a reset to get it going again...


As with a number of other issues with my 811, it drops Audi too. Today, I got my first taste of the switch issue. After 30 min on support, they got it working.

I can't believe why everyone here is so willing to stay on Dish Network. Doesn't anyone value customer service, quality, etc.?

I called them today to see what my return options are. They said that I would have to pay $250 to cancel it. What will a 301 and a 811 fetch on eBay?

Direct TV said they would sell my a HD Reciever for $299. $100 off for coming back from Dish Network. The CSR I spoke with's said he has had a ton of people coming from Dish because of the HD issues. Go figure.

I see earlier someone said to spare them my inflamatory comments. Please tell me what I've said that was incorrect. The facts are I switched under the promise from Dish Network that I would get better service and HD from them. Both turned out to be 100% false.


----------



## Nick

Tons?

My 811 is working fine, "guest" - I'll dance wit da one what brung me.


----------



## Guest

Nick said:


> Tons?
> 
> My 811 is working fine, "guest" - I'll dance wit da one what brung me.


Good. After much thought, I decided to bite the $250 charge from Dish, sell my 811 on eBay (listed on there now), and go with Direct TV's HD package. They gave me 30 days to try it out or I can go back to SD.

It is going to cost $299 for the equipment including installation. I guess the old addage is you get what you pay for.

I called Dish before making this decision and I spoke to a very rude CSR manager who seemed not to care at all if I left. When I get the Direct TV HD, I'll let you all know if it's any better. Maybe HD isn't ready for prime time or my 4 X 3 HD Ready TV is just better suited for SD.

Thanks for letting me vent. This has caused a lot of stress in our family.

Good luck with your 811s. If you want one cheaper than dish will sell, go check out my eBay listing.


----------



## Mike123abc

Well my 811 has been on continuously for over a week (it is on a UPS so no power blips either). It has performed really well. I run it in 480p mode most of the time, but when I want to watch a movie or something I switch it to 1080i. My local digitals are not HDTV so 480p works good for them too.

Now I do note that the picture is darker and the colors a bit richer than the 6000, but mine is not so dark that I think that it is broken.

The only issues I have are that it gets "stuck" on local digital channels (cannot recall back to a different channel), takes a while for the PiP to come up on the guide, and does not have very much guide (current and next show).

One feature I would like would be for the ability to have it go 480 on STDef and 1080i (or 720p if you have it set that way) on HDTV.


----------



## joeb2112

had my first 811 installed 12/7, once in a while I had some of the audio drop off others have talked about (when changing between HD channels)

The video guide sometimes does NOT have the video feed on the upper right, takes about a minute or so for the picture to come up. 

Dish installed a DP34 switch, I have not experienced any check switch errors - yet.. 

However, the installer installed my 811 optical incorrectly with my Onkyo receiver - it wasn't until I had my Home Theatre tech show up for another system that he reconnected the 811 as it should be - and now all HD channels are in 5.1


----------



## kstevens

donald said:


> It seems to occur if your using the optical out from the receiver. Mine does it at random every hour or so. It takes a reset to get it going again...


I use the optical out and left it on for 5 hours and I never lost the audio. There must be some other common denominator, or it is a problem with just a few units.

Ken


----------



## johnnydish

My update: After resetting my 811 yesterday (no audio) I left the tv on for about 6 hrs and didn't experience anymore trouble.


----------



## Nick

After being out all day, I came home to a cranky 811. Maybe I woke it up mid-nap. :eek2:

The dish-pointing screens were looking like someone had chopped down my new multi-dish pole. After several check-switches, power-downs, uplugging and replugging, and another check-switch on 61.5, the unit finally came to its senses. To my surprise, ch 9500 was there with "iWeather". I set my local and a couple of "favorites" and everything seems nominal - for the moment.

No new HD channels yet, tho... :shrug:

-------------------
s/w ver P263LABD-N


----------



## lesmoss

Many of us have had this problem. See posts above. What is your switch configuration? Did it occur on power up?

I have had no recurrence of the problem since my SW21 was replaced. But, I usually don't turn the 811 off any more and I only saw the problem only on power up.

Oops! Just after writing that, it happened to me. I went to try the 9500 weather and my 811 froze. Pushed power for 10 seconds to get a restart. It went into a download for the weather info and when it came back up I had lost signal on 110. Signal strength test on 110 showed "Wrong Sat 61.5". A "check switch" cleared the problem.

It now seems pretty clear that the problem is in the 811 not the switch.

New question: Has anyone seen this problem on a one dish 500 (no side sat)configuration??



Nick said:


> After being out all day, I came home to a cranky 811. Maybe I woke it up mid-nap. :eek2:
> 
> The dish-pointing screens were looking like someone had chopped down my new multi-dish pole. After several check-switches, power-downs, uplugging and replugging, and another check-switch on 61.5, the unit finally came to its senses.


----------



## kiran

My initial installation was for 12/15 and they rescheduled it for today, and today after wasting my whole afternoon waiting for the Dish Network guy to show up, I called them to find out they AGAIN... WIHTOUT TELLING ME. This was really bad and vented my disappointment/anger at the CSR. They have rescheduled it for Jan 6th now. They were saying that they are really behind the receivers because of the high demand. 

Are others also having the same issue? I ordered it on 12/12 and I am in Houston.

Thanks & Regards,
Kiran


----------



## Guest

After watching the cbs broadcast of the pats/bills game it didn't drop audio once. Perhaps the latest software fixed it. I must admit I only use the receiver when I'm in the movie room on the weekend so I see changes from week to week. Here's what I noticed since I watched it last week.

Audio seems to be fixed.

The preview video screen came up after about 30 seconds and worked great until I flicked to a hd subchannel then it lost it's mind and didn't work again.

The recall between off air hd channels still doesn't work.

The smaller 4X3 within my 4X3 is still present on off air hd channels when in 4X3 format.

So in summary. The audio is better but thats about it.


----------



## johnnydish

kiran said:


> My initial installation was for 12/15 and they rescheduled it for today, and today after wasting my whole afternoon waiting for the Dish Network guy to show up, I called them to find out they AGAIN... WIHTOUT TELLING ME. This was really bad and vented my disappointment/anger at the CSR. They have rescheduled it for Jan 6th now. They were saying that they are really behind the receivers because of the high demand.
> 
> Are others also having the same issue? I ordered it on 12/12 and I am in Houston.
> 
> Thanks & Regards,
> Kiran


Kiran....You've got to be kidding me! I called Dish on 12-22 to order and had it installed on 12-24. I also live in the Houston area. Not sure on what's going on...GOOD LUCK


----------



## Ron Barry

kiran said:


> Are others also having the same issue? I ordered it on 12/12 and I am in Houston.
> 
> Thanks & Regards,
> Kiran


I have been rescheduled twice. Latest date is January 17th. With the price they set this does not suprise me. Not too happy, but then again I do understand given the price and that the product has just been released.


----------



## kstevens

Has anyone else noticed that the guide for the local channels is not broken down by half hour segments? This prevents me from setting a timer on the local channel. I do this with my 6000 all the time.


Ken


----------



## cpdretired

kstevens said:


> Has anyone else noticed that the guide for the local channels is not broken down by half hour segments? This prevents me from setting a timer on the local channel. I do this with my 6000 all the time.
> 
> Ken


There are no hour breaks in the guide for the locals. I had to manually set all of my timers. Another thing to put onto the things to fix list for Dish. Every time you switch between the OTA locals and satellite you also loose the EPG.


----------



## lrvalley

I have only had my 811 for 4 days, but I have run across a nagging problem. When I power it on, at least once a day (sometimes 2 or 3 times!) I get the message "015 Acquiring Signal". I usually end up getting a picture after a period of time - but it sometimes takes several minutes before I get a picture! My signal level looks good on both 110 and 119. Anybody else having these problems?

thanks!


----------



## cpdretired

lrvalley said:


> I have only had my 811 for 4 days, but I have run across a nagging problem. When I power it on, at least once a day (sometimes 2 or 3 times!) I get the message "015 Acquiring Signal". I usually end up getting a picture after a period of time - but it sometimes takes several minutes before I get a picture! My signal level looks good on both 110 and 119. Anybody else having these problems?
> 
> thanks!


I usually have this problem if I leave the unit on an OTA channel. Also sometimes when I switch from OTA to satellite this also occurs. When I turn the TV off I will make sure that the 811 is on a satellite channel. Once the unit is turned on for the day it stays on until I go to bed.


----------



## Ransomtucky

Okay,..here is my opinion on the 811, the install (New OTA Ant. and rotor) Picture quality and sound.

I have been a Dish subscriber for 3yrs. I havnt had the nightmares a lot of people are talking about on this forum and other forums about Dish Net.

I AM a critical person and want things done right!!! My number one comment on HDTV is that the consumer fully understand what they are getting and what they will not get when buying the whole package (HDTV, Tuner, programming, etc.). I like technology and new from the getgo what to expect, and what to purchase.

I have a Hitachi 57 SWX,..good RPTV
I have a Sony, Polk, Yamaha, Paradigm, Pioneer Home Theater, (medium quality)
I have all the right cabling and have it connected correctly.
I have the 811 and a good OTA Antennae and rotor

I ordered the 811 around the 14 of Dec. I scheduled Dec 26, 12-5p install.

Intertech of WNY called twice to make sure I was set for the 26. They called on the 26 to tell me they would be there around 1:00p. They were there on time, installed the 811, installed the Antennea, (free tripod) took down the old ant., did all the programming (oh, and by the way, they took there shoes off when working inside from outside), a complaint I heard in another forum, cabled my system back up, checked to make sure everything was working, showed us how the system worked, and did an outstsanding job on the work. 

**(people must also understand screen ratios and when to adjust)**

The first thing I really watched was the Bills/Pats game (OTA), good quality and better than standard SAT. (no breakups of picture or sound (maybe a few clicks on the sound) (PASS)

I watched various other things on the Ant, mostly Football. (PASS)

I watched WIVB (Wild Wild West), very good!! (PASS)

I then checked out HDNET and the Pheonix Hockey game, kind of a dark picture even after adjustment, but clear. It was in DD 5.1 and the sound was awesome, just like it should be..(announcer on the center channel, the actual hockey and the front channels, the low freq (example. body checks into boards) being sent to the subs and the crowd noise (yelling some clapping heard in stereo off the rear surround) Excellent!! (PASS)

I then watched the Steelers /Ravens on ESPNHD, the picture quality was awesome!! I was dissapointed with it being DD 2.0 though. (PASS)

I have enjoyed my system and my 81 yr old dad enjoys it too.

I have to give the total system from start to finish a passing grade!!


----------



## Guest

For what its worth, I have experienced many of the trials previously posted. My installation date of the 811 was postponed twice but installed correctly on the 23rd. I packed up my 6000 in a box. Since then three problems may cause me to unpack the 6000. 1) The picture is too dark. This is worse on composite than component, but still not as good as the 6000. 2) OTA channels drop out, possibly due to low signal strength, though no problem with my 6000. 3) The OTA aspect ratio on the composite is poor. I have the choice of a small letterbox in the center of a big screen. Again, no problem with the 6000. The 6000 had its problems as well, mainly the fan noise of the 8vsb (the 811 is silent) and the unit runs hot, especially over the 8vsb. 
My questions are: Any word on new software updates that will correct these problems, and how do you locate what software version you're running?


----------



## normang

rlcoker said:


> For what its worth, I have experienced many of the trials previously posted. My installation date of the 811 was postponed twice but installed correctly on the 23rd. I packed up my 6000 in a box. Since then three problems may cause me to unpack the 6000. 1) The picture is too dark. This is worse on composite than component, but still not as good as the 6000. 2) OTA channels drop out, possibly due to low signal strength, though no problem with my 6000. 3) The OTA aspect ratio on the composite is poor. I have the choice of a small letterbox in the center of a big screen. Again, no problem with the 6000. The 6000 had its problems as well, mainly the fan noise of the 8vsb (the 811 is silent) and the unit runs hot, especially over the 8vsb.
> My questions are: Any word on new software updates that will correct these problems, and how do you locate what software version you're running?


I hope you called Dish to make it clear about the dark video issues. If you are seeing differences in Aspect ratio from the 6000 to 811, its probably because the all the outputs are enabled and not switched as they were on the 6000, something for them to workout I guess, though It would be nice if what to expect was clearly defined.

The software version is under system information under Installation..

Norm


----------



## Stranger Monsoon

We are scheduled to get our 811 installed on January 17. We too were rescheduled due to high demand for the 811. We've read of the short comings of the 811. We would like to head off some of these problems at the time of installation. 

I notice numerous complaints of the S-Video being dark. If I ask the installer to correct that, is he likely to do so?

Will they hook up the my DVI cable and make sure that system is up and going, or will they install the component cables and let me hook up the DVI cable later?

With so many 811 issues listed in this forum, I was hoping someone from this list could prompt me as to what to request, demand, look out for during installation. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

BTW, we have very few local OTA stations in my area, none being HD. I suppose it would be wise to get an antenna up and running so the installer can include that in his set-up check list.

Thanks.....SM


----------



## fixoman

kstevens said:


> I use the optical out and left it on for 5 hours and I never lost the audio. There must be some other common denominator, or it is a problem with just a few units.
> 
> Ken


 I occationally loose audio ass well, but when I toggle back one channel then back to channel with audio issue the problem is no longer there


----------



## fixoman

lrvalley said:


> I have only had my 811 for 4 days, but I have run across a nagging problem. When I power it on, at least once a day (sometimes 2 or 3 times!) I get the message "015 Acquiring Signal". I usually end up getting a picture after a period of time - but it sometimes takes several minutes before I get a picture! My signal level looks good on both 110 and 119. Anybody else having these problems?
> 
> thanks!


 Yes, the fix is do not turn your receiver off, but then you take a chance of not receiving any new software upgrades


----------



## fixoman

herni said:


> Am I the only one with this problem. It seems that at least once a day I have to run the check switch function in order for my 811 to pick up certain channels like ESPN HD, Discovery HD and others like Cinemax, VH1 Classic, etc. This is pretty annoying and very frustrating. I know it can't be the intall because my 301 receiver in my bedroom workds perfect. Any advice? Also, I have my guide set to show the program I was watching when I hit the guide button on the remote. However, when I do this, I get a black box with the words "Search for satellite signal." And then if I am lucky, after about a minute, the program pops up in the guide. How can I fix these two very annoying issues?


I have had my 811 since 12/13 and have had to run a check switch at least four times????


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## fixoman

Stranger Monsoon said:


> We are scheduled to get our 811 installed on January 17. We too were rescheduled due to high demand for the 811. We've read of the short comings of the 811. We would like to head off some of these problems at the time of installation.
> 
> I notice numerous complaints of the S-Video being dark. If I ask the installer to correct that, is he likely to do so?
> 
> Will they hook up the my DVI cable and make sure that system is up and going, or will they install the component cables and let me hook up the DVI cable later?
> 
> With so many 811 issues listed in this forum, I was hoping someone from this list could prompt me as to what to request, demand, look out for during installation. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
> 
> BTW, we have very few local OTA stations in my area, none being HD. I suppose it would be wise to get an antenna up and running so the installer can include that in his set-up check list.
> 
> Thanks.....SM


 I have owned my 811 for several weeks, for the price it is a great receiver, if you use a DVI cable there is no need to hook up anything else, and the picture looks great in hd and not bad in anolog. As for the antenna, the installer will only connect it, it is up to you to fine tune it for your local channels and the DVI cable is a very simple hook-up just two screws as in a computer cable. Don't let all the negative 811 talk get you worried, the receiver is very good and I am sure you will be glad you choose it.


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## TheDarkFalcon

fixoman said:


> I have owned my 811 for several weeks, for the price it is a great receiver, if you use a DVI cable there is no need to hook up anything else, and the picture looks great in hd and not bad in anolog. As for the antenna, the installer will only connect it, it is up to you to fine tune it for your local channels and the DVI cable is a very simple hook-up just two screws as in a computer cable. Don't let all the negative 811 talk get you worried, the receiver is very good and I am sure you will be glad you choose it.


I just ordered the HDTV in a Box over the weekend. I will be adding the 811 and a 40" Monitor to my existing 508 and 301. Does the E* installer bring a DVI cable with then for the HDTV in a Box, or do I need to have one here waiting for him? I want to insure that everything is setup correctly the FIRST time, with no repeat trips if possible.

I am scheduled for Friday 01/02, so I getting a bit excited!


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## ChrisB

What are the video inputs used for on the 811 or how can they be used. I have my install scheduled for Friday. I will have a component connection direct to my Sony HDTV. I was assuming I could plug in my DVD into the composite input and have it go out through the component output. Is this possible? 

And what is the real deal with the aspect ratio for the 811. Is this what I am to understand, High Def channels are 16:9, great because I have a 16:9 TV, SD 4:3, but you can not full screen it or wide zoom it through the TV control? 

How can it prevent the TV control from working?

Thanks!


----------



## Nick

When my 16:9 panny is getting an HD feed via component ins, it fills the screen as it should and I have no control of AR at the TV. Otoh, why would I want to alter a perfect HD picture?


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## Ransomtucky

Our Sat. Company hooked everything up. If you use DVI, that is not included with the 811. I ended up paying $100 for the DVI cable. My local HD channels (OTA) are in 4:3 format. but I just adjust the aspect.


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## JohnMI

Ransomtucky said:


> Our Sat. Company hooked everything up. If you use DVI, that is not included with the 811.


Normally it isn't, but I'm curious if Dish is bright enough to include one with the HDTV-in-a-box package. Most likely not, of course. Heck, I'm curious if the HDTV they include ven has a DVI input. 



> I ended up paying $100 for the DVI cable.


No offense, but you got ripped off, I think. See the numerous other threads telling people not to spend crazy money on DVI cables from Monster or other companies charging $100+ for a $25 cable... 



> My local HD channels (OTA) are in 4:3 format. but I just adjust the aspect.


Are you sure they are HD then? We have several OTA stations here now broadcasting in DIGITAL, but not in HD...

I thought broadcasting in HD required a 16:9 format... But, I could easily be confused on that...

- John...


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## Nick

HD, by definition, is supposed to be broadcast in 16:9 aspect ratio. Some recorded content, however, is in 4:3 ar. This statement does not apply to television receivers, which can be manufactured in 4:3 ar, but display 16:9 HD content in a letterboxed display. 

The HD train is just now pulling out of the station and it's going to take a while for everyone, particularly content providers and broadcasters to get on board.


----------



## JohnMI

Yes, but what about those broadcasters that are broadcasting "in digital, but not HD"? Does that mean that they are sending a digital 4:3 signal? That would be significantly different than broadcasting HD, but just not having any 16:9 content to show, of course...

- John...


----------



## Mike123abc

In my market FOX/NBC are just doing digital 480i. CBS is doing 1080i, but they do not have the HDTV feed!!! CBS is just stretching the 4:3 to 16:9 and upconverting it to 1080i. I have to undo what CBS does with the 811 by using strech and a 4:3tv #1 option. CBS claims they are waiting on the equipment to do the 1080i network feed, but they have been waiting over a year.

My ABC station is not even broadcasting in digital (they had a request in to change the HDTV channel #). I hope after the multi year delay they at least do real HDTV.

They only requirement that they are facing right now is to get a digital signal out. All the stations are doing low power, most under 5kw. In a couple years the FCC might force them to do the licensed power.


----------



## TheDarkFalcon

jgoggan said:


> Heck, I'm curious if the HDTV they include ven has a DVI input.
> 
> - John...


I have a picture of the HDTV that is included. I think I got it from SatelliteGuys site. It shows the back with a DVI connector and specifically mentions DVI and the funtionality it provides for this package deal. I hope it includes a DVI cable, but if not I will get one cheap enough.


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## JohnMI

It will indeed be interesting to see if Dish does it right and includes the DVI cable then if they are advertising/mentioning it.

- John...


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## Antoneo

Hrmm, wish they would provide more "look ahead" information in the guide. A few hours forecast isn't cutting it . Audio bug hasn't come back and the DVI connection is so much better than the s-video connection. Much improved colors and a very stable image.


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## JerryB

Just had an 811 installed yesterday (finally) and have a couple of questions for the experts in here. 

1) As I've seen in other messages here, my video appears extremely dark across the board -- both with SVideo and Component signals. I am able to compensate by cranking up my projector to near max levels, but not happy about that. Has anyone seen variances between 811 units or heard anything to suggest that there might be a solution to this? The Dish people are coming out tomorrow (yep, New Year's Day if you can believe it) to look at the problem, but curious if anyone else might have any thoughts on this.

2) Notice that HD ESPN seems to be very different from the other HD channels -- really not particularly high quality and not widescreen (appears stretched). Is this truly an HD channel, or are they broadcasting an SD signal for the time being until they have real HD content?

Appreciate any comments.

Thx,
Jerry


----------



## cpdretired

JerryB said:


> Just had an 811 installed yesterday (finally) and have a couple of questions for the experts in here.
> 
> 1) As I've seen in other messages here, my video appears extremely dark across the board -- both with SVideo and Component signals. I am able to compensate by cranking up my projector to near max levels, but not happy about that. Has anyone seen variances between 811 units or heard anything to suggest that there might be a solution to this? The Dish people are coming out tomorrow (yep, New Year's Day if you can believe it) to look at the problem, but curious if anyone else might have any thoughts on this.
> 
> 2) Notice that HD ESPN seems to be very different from the other HD channels -- really not particularly high quality and not widescreen (appears stretched). Is this truly an HD channel, or are they broadcasting an SD signal for the time being until they have real HD content?
> 
> Appreciate any comments.
> 
> Thx,
> Jerry


Jerry all of the 811's are putting out a dark picture. I and others have called Dish advanced tech. support. They are aware of the problem and are working on it via a software download. Your wasting your day waiting for the Dish tech. to come to the house. He can replace the 811 but the next receiver will do exactly the same thing. I too have compensated for the dark picture by turning up the brightness on my Samsung DLP TV.

Not all of the ESPN HD appears 1081i to me.


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## Guest

JerryB said:


> Just had an 811 installed yesterday (finally) and have a couple of questions for the experts in here.
> 
> 1) As I've seen in other messages here, my video appears extremely dark across the board -- both with SVideo and Component signals. I am able to compensate by cranking up my projector to near max levels, but not happy about that. Has anyone seen variances between 811 units or heard anything to suggest that there might be a solution to this? The Dish people are coming out tomorrow (yep, New Year's Day if you can believe it) to look at the problem, but curious if anyone else might have any thoughts on this.
> 
> 2) Notice that HD ESPN seems to be very different from the other HD channels -- really not particularly high quality and not widescreen (appears stretched). Is this truly an HD channel, or are they broadcasting an SD signal for the time being until they have real HD content?


I have had the 811 for about 2 weeks now and I do NOT receive a "dark" picture. The picture is very bright and the HD channels are very crisp (especially the HD-Discovery Channel and OTC channels). This must be a problem with certain 811s.

I've noticed that HD ESPN will broadcast SD shows on their HD channel and then stretch the picture to 16.9. Doesn't look good. I just change the channel to the regular SD ESPN channel to view that program.


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## lesmoss

1. I have an 811 connected via Component. No dark picture problem here. My guess is that it is a problem limited to certain samples. Or, my TV has good automatic gain control. My analog audio from the 811 is a little weak. I have to increase volume when I switch from cable to sat.

2. ESPN has VERY limited HD content. Here is the schedule.

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tvlistings/espnhd/espnHDStory?id=1635015

The rest is, as you say, stretched SD.



JerryB said:


> Just had an 811 installed yesterday (finally) and have a couple of questions for the experts in here.
> 
> 1) As I've seen in other messages here, my video appears extremely dark across the board -- both with SVideo and Component signals. I am able to compensate by cranking up my projector to near max levels, but not happy about that. Has anyone seen variances between 811 units or heard anything to suggest that there might be a solution to this? The Dish people are coming out tomorrow (yep, New Year's Day if you can believe it) to look at the problem, but curious if anyone else might have any thoughts on this.
> 
> 2) Notice that HD ESPN seems to be very different from the other HD channels -- really not particularly high quality and not widescreen (appears stretched). Is this truly an HD channel, or are they broadcasting an SD signal for the time being until they have real HD content?
> 
> Appreciate any comments.
> 
> Thx,
> Jerry


----------



## JohnMI

I also do not have a dark picture out of my 811 (using Component Output as my DVI cable has not arrived yet). I'm not saying that it isn't a widespread problem that is hopefully correctable with some software update -- I'm just saying that not "all of the 811's are putting out a dark picture."

- John...


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## dcarpa

Some thoughts on my 811 installed yesterday

1) dark picture - i do get a dark picture out of the s-video, composite out looks good
2) HD pics look excellent, SD channels look soft at 1080i out, better on SD (but dark) - SD channels definately not as clear as my cable (cablevision LI)
3)OTA tuner is good - needs some more bells and whistles like strength meter visibility, not good how the channels will jump position of the signal goes in and out
4) Guide is way too short, need at least 4 hours to be useful
5) Overall a thumbs up for the 811 - some things could be better- but overall the box is better than the scientific atlanta crap that time warner, cablevision, and some of the other big cable guys use.

DJM


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## JohnMI

Just so I am clear... When all is "right" in the world, the guide is supposed to be like 48 hours, right? Isn't that what they advertised it as?

- John...


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## normang

The guide will eventually be a 48 hour guide once they deploy code to do this.. 

If you have not called Dish about your new 811 and the Dark s-Video, call them and make some noise and see if you get any feedback as to whether this is a priority issue for them. It makes S-Video PQ look bad and it should be easy to fix.

The OTA Tuner does have signal strength when you press "view" on a OTA channel.


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## normang

jgoggan said:


> I also do not have a dark picture out of my 811 (using Component Output as my DVI cable has not arrived yet). I'm not saying that it isn't a widespread problem that is hopefully correctable with some software update -- I'm just saying that not "all of the 811's are putting out a dark picture.- John...


John, connect your 811 via S-Video to your TV and tell me its not dark, then I will agree that not all 811's have this problem.. Norm


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## JohnMI

normang said:


> John, connect your 811 via S-Video to your TV and tell me its not dark, then I will agree that not all 811's have this problem.. Norm


If it is only S-Video specific, then be specific about that when discussing it. I see many posts where people just say that their 811 is dark without specifying any connection type. And at least one where it WAS component.

So, maybe ALL 811s have a dark S-Video problem. If so, then people need to be more specific when discussing it. Especially when a new person says "Am I going to have this problem?" -- people need to answer "IF you are using S-Video, then you likely will, it seems" -- as opposed to just saying that all 811s are dark and leaving it at that.

- John...


----------



## Jerry G

normang said:


> John, connect your 811 via S-Video to your TV and tell me its not dark, then I will agree that not all 811's have this problem.. Norm


At the moment, I have a 6000 and 811 sitting side by side, both feeding a Pioneer plasma via component and S Video. I can quickly switch the inputs to the plasma. The 811 is only minimally darker than the 6000, and in fact I prefer the 811 output. I'm certainly not seeing the more extreme darkness from the 811 that others are reporting.


----------



## normang

lesmoss said:


> 1. I have an 811 connected via Component. No dark picture problem here. My guess is that it is a problem limited to certain samples. Or, my TV has good automatic gain control. My analog audio from the 811 is a little weak. I have to increase volume when I switch from cable to sat.
> .


Les...
Connect your TV to your 811 via an S-Video cable and tell me whether its not dark. If your's looks fine, then your statement of certain samples would be correct. However I suspect your going to find it dark. And don't just look at one channel, surf and watch it or a while and tell me its not dark..


----------



## normang

Jerry G said:


> At the moment, I have a 6000 and 811 sitting side by side, both feeding a Pioneer plasma via component and S Video. I can quickly switch the inputs to the plasma. The 811 is only minimally darker than the 6000, and in fact I prefer the 811 output. I'm certainly not seeing the more extreme darkness from the 811 that others are reporting.


Jerry, you may have a unique situation, and it may have something to do with your TV, its hard to say, however I suspect if you watch the S-Video feed for a while and on multiple channels, and perhaps watch something where the scene is dark to begin with, and then switch, you'll see the difference and I don't think it will be minimal.. However your setup could be providing different results than most..


----------



## normang

jgoggan said:


> If it is only S-Video specific, then be specific about that when discussing it. I see many posts where people just say that their 811 is dark without specifying any connection type. And at least one where it WAS component.
> 
> So, maybe ALL 811s have a dark S-Video problem. If so, then people need to be more specific when discussing it. Especially when a new person says "Am I going to have this problem?" -- people need to answer "IF you are using S-Video, then you likely will, it seems" -- as opposed to just saying that all 811s are dark and leaving it at that.
> 
> - John...


When ever I've posted something about the dark video, I am pretty sure that I mentioned that its s-video specific, others have not. However I beleive that even component and HD are a tad darker than my 6000 was, however it still looks good.. Its possible that in some messages I've posted about the issue was to encourage people to call Dish about the dark video issue if they were experiencing it and didn't mention it was s-Video specific..

however I would still like to see if you can see the issue if you connect your setup to S-Video.... have a good New year... Norm


----------



## Jerry G

normang said:


> Jerry, you may have a unique situation, and it may have something to do with your TV, its hard to say, however I suspect if you watch the S-Video feed for a while and on multiple channels, and perhaps watch something where the scene is dark to begin with, and then switch, you'll see the difference and I don't think it will be minimal.. However your setup could be providing different results than most..


I need to withdraw my previous comment. I must have been thinking of a different comparison that I had done. I just compared the SD S-video output (of an HD channel) between the 811 and 6000. The S-video output is significantly darker with the 811. When comparing the component 1080 outputs, the difference is much smaller.


----------



## kstevens

normang said:


> The guide will eventually be a 48 hour guide once they deploy code to do this..
> 
> If you have not called Dish about your new 811 and the Dark s-Video, call them and make some noise and see if you get any feedback as to whether this is a priority issue for them. It makes S-Video PQ look bad and it should be easy to fix.
> 
> The OTA Tuner does have signal strength when you press "view" on a OTA channel.


I thought the guide was only 40 hours, not 48.

Anyone know when they are going to get the freakin open tv loaded in?

Ken


----------



## normang

> need to withdraw my previous comment. I must have been thinking of a different comparison that I had done. I just compared the SD S-video output (of an HD channel) between the 811 and 6000. The S-video output is significantly darker with the 811. When comparing the component 1080 outputs, the difference is much smaller.


Jerry, if you think its annoying enough, give Dish a call if you have not already to let them know that you are disatisfied with the 811's S-Video out and see if Dish acknowledges the problem, the more people that let them know, the better {IMHO}



> I thought the guide was only 40 hours, not 48. Anyone know when they are going to get the freakin open tv loaded in?


40 or 48, what's 8 hours as long as you have the whole 40 or 48 hours of guide in the 811 memory without having to ever wait for a refresh. As for OpenTV, as far as I am concerned, that's the last thing they can add. I want the other issues fixed far more than I want OpenTV.. issues as the dark video, OTA guide issues, guide refresh issues, mapping the rear inputs to channel 1 instead of a stand along guide selection. There are probably others, but those jump to my forefront..


----------



## JohnMI

kstevens said:


> I thought the guide was only 40 hours, not 48.


Mine's about 2 hours right now -- so 40, 48, whatever -- better than what I seem to be getting! 

- John...


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## normang

jgoggan said:


> Mine's about 2 hours right now -- so 40, 48, whatever -- better than what I seem to be getting!  - John...


I think its safe to say that *"everyone" * who has an 811 is getting 2-3 hours of guide max at the moment.. 

Had a chance to see if S-Video is darker John?


----------



## johnnydish

My 811 is hooked up via component, looks great. Never tried s-video, not sure if i will, since I'm completly satisfied with my picture, I might try the dvi when i get one, until then I'm happy with the picture


----------



## JohnMI

normang said:


> I think its safe to say that *"everyone" * who has an 811 is getting 2-3 hours of guide max at the moment..


Indeed -- I just called it in to add to the list. The CSR, after looking for a while, finally came back and told me that it was indeed a known issue and added me to the list. heh.



> Had a chace to see if S-Video is darker John?


To be honest, I didn't bother doing it once I discovered that you meant it as mainly an S-Video problem. I actually assume that mine would have the problem too. I can double-check it if you really want me to -- I just didn't do it yet because it would involve working around a lot of annoying wiring -- having 3 or 4 sets of component cables plus optical cables to handle those devices makes for a thick pile of wires behind the TV. 

- John...


----------



## normang

jgoggan said:


> Indeed -- I just called it in to add to the list. The CSR, after looking for a while, finally came back and told me that it was indeed a known issue and added me to the list. heh.


I assume that you are refering to the dark s-video...



> To be honest, I didn't bother doing it once I discovered that you meant it as mainly an S-Video problem. I actually assume that mine would have the problem too. I can double-check it if you really want me to -- I just didn't do it yet because it would involve working around a lot of annoying wiring -- having 3 or 4 sets of component cables plus optical cables to handle those devices makes for a thick pile of wires behind the TV.
> - John...


I can understand that crawling behind a large TV surrounded perhaps with your audio equipment, wires up the ying/yang is not an incentive to play if you believe that the issue exists. However if you find yourself in a mood to check it out, let me know what you find...


----------



## JohnMI

normang said:


> I assume that you are refering to the dark s-video...


Actually, at that point, I was referring to the short guide. See most post again -- you'll see that I was referring to the quoted part from you about everyone having only 2-3 hours of guide. I called Dish to complain about that so that they'd have another person on the list for it.



> I can understand that crawling behind a large TV surrounded perhaps with your audio equipment, wires up the ying/yang is not an incentive to play if you believe that the issue exists. However if you find yourself in a mood to check it out, let me know what you find...


I'll give it a go tomorrow. I guess it isn't a huge deal since I can just run a temporary s-video cable. However, I do fully agree that it exists as a problem. I only said that it didn't before when I thought people meant all video outputs -- and just added to the discussion that I wasn't getting it on the Component out.

- John...


----------



## normang

jgoggan said:


> Actually, at that point, I was referring to the short guide. See most post again -- you'll see that I was referring to the quoted part from you about everyone having only 2-3 hours of guide. I called Dish to complain about that so that they'd have another person on the list for it.


Yes, I am sure they know about the 2-3 hour guide, its virtually the same as the 6000, except it shows up in two places, the guide when scrolling and the picture in guide when its not up to date. You get the wait or cancel dialog. If you stay in the guide long enough, the picture in guide will come on and the guide is about as up-to-date as it will get for now.



> I'll give it a go tomorrow. I guess it isn't a huge deal since I can just run a temporary s-video cable. However, I do fully agree that it exists as a problem. I only said that it didn't before when I thought people meant all video outputs -- and just added to the discussion that I wasn't getting it on the Component out.


Sounds like a fun New Years day test  I'll be interested to see what you discover.. As I've mentioned, surf around, watch some channels, switch from Component to S-Video while watching a SD program that's dimly lit and let me know what you think..

Norm


----------



## fixoman

cpdretired said:


> Jerry all of the 811's are putting out a dark picture. I and others have called Dish advanced tech. support. They are aware of the problem and are working on it via a software download. Your wasting your day waiting for the Dish tech. to come to the house. He can replace the 811 but the next receiver will do exactly the same thing. I too have compensated for the dark picture by turning up the brightness on my Samsung DLP TV.
> 
> Not all of the ESPN HD appears 1081i to me.


 ESPN broadcast most of their programs in what is called an upconversion, meaning that is not a true 1080i. They broadcast some of their primetime games in hd and for a hd schedule go to espn.com


----------



## fixoman

jgoggan said:


> I also do not have a dark picture out of my 811 (using Component Output as my DVI cable has not arrived yet). I'm not saying that it isn't a widespread problem that is hopefully correctable with some software update -- I'm just saying that not "all of the 811's are putting out a dark picture."
> 
> - John...


 I had my 811 installed on 12/13 and when running composite the picture is very dark, so I had to run it by DVI and the non hd channels still don,t look that great and I am using a 100.00 monster cable!!


----------



## JohnMI

fixoman said:


> I had my 811 installed on 12/13 and when running composite the picture is very dark, so I had to run it by DVI and the non hd channels still don,t look that great


I wouldn't expect the upconverted SD content to look too great, actually. Some mentioned that they thought it looked better -- but I'm not convinced it should be really...



> and I am using a 100.00 monster cable!!


I'm sorry. 

- John...


----------



## fixoman

jgoggan said:


> I wouldn't expect the upconverted SD content to look too great, actually. Some mentioned that they thought it looked better -- but I'm not convinced it should be really...
> 
> I'm sorry.
> 
> - John...


 The bottom line is that Dish Network released the 811 receiver when I feel they should have worked out all of known issues first.
1. The picture is dark, even while veiwing non hd content via DVI cable.
2. I have lost sound several times (Digital out put issues) works fine when sound is PCM but when 2.0 digital or 5.1 digital have had problems.
3. The Program guide is very slow and can't support 3hrs out. and picture window when guide is brought up takes several mintutes to come in.
4.The receiver has locked up about 5 times requiring me to unplug it to reset it.
5. When powering up the receiver I sometimes get a fault saying to check switch, Then I have to go through the menu and run check switch test and this takes several minutes to do so.

I am very knowledgable when it comes to hometheater equipment and when you go from digital cable to Satt. and the picture is worst then there is a problemand this mybe from the amount of channels dish network is craming on a limited amount of bandwidth space??


----------



## JohnMI

fixoman said:


> The bottom line is that Dish Network released the 811 receiver when I feel they should have worked out all of known issues first.


Oh, I've never argrued against that thought at all. I wasn't trying to make excuses for Dish. My replies to this thread have only been to try to help add to determining the spread of the problem(s) and other such things. For example, my Component output does not look dark -- and we've determine that it appears to primarily be an S-Video problem, I believe. So, I've just been trying to add to that -- not saying one way or the other really on whether or not Dish should have waited to ship.



> {Problems that I agree are there - at least for some people - removed.}


I agree that there are problems such as those you listed. I hope my replies haven't been taken the wrong way -- I didn't mean that the 811 is working great! I just wanted us to make sure we stayed specific about what does and does not appear to work for most people...



> I am very knowledgable when it comes to hometheater equipment


You'd think you'd have read not to buy the $100 Monster DVI cables somewhere then. 



> and when you go from digital cable to Satt. and the picture is worst then there is a problem


Not necessarily. For SD content, it really depends on your cable provider. Some certainly have more bandwidth available for the channels that they provide than Dish does.

In many case, I think expecting satellite-based SD channels to look better than cable-based ones is asking for too much. But, I think that really depends on your cable provider, of course.



> and this mybe from the amount of channels dish network is craming on a limited amount of bandwidth space??


I think so, yes.

- John...


----------



## normang

fixoman said:


> The bottom line is that Dish Network released the 811 receiver when I feel they should have worked out all of known issues first.
> 1. The picture is dark, even while veiwing non hd content via DVI cable.
> 2. I have lost sound several times (Digital out put issues) works fine when sound is PCM but when 2.0 digital or 5.1 digital have had problems.
> 3. The Program guide is very slow and can't support 3hrs out. and picture window when guide is brought up takes several mintutes to come in.
> 4.The receiver has locked up about 5 times requiring me to unplug it to reset it.
> 5. When powering up the receiver I sometimes get a fault saying to check switch, Then I have to go through the menu and run check switch test and this takes several minutes to do so.
> 
> I am very knowledgable when it comes to hometheater equipment and when you go from digital cable to Satt. and the picture is worst then there is a problemand this mybe from the amount of channels dish network is craming on a limited amount of bandwidth space??


fixoman, yes on S-video, and probably composite, video is dark in comparison to component or DVi, however depending on your setup, using component or DVI when watching SD shows, you wind up watching 4:3 in a 16:9 window. Call Dish and tell them to fix S-Video and composite video darkness if you haven't yet.

While I have yet to see a sound problem, others have and you should report it to Dish if you have not already

The program guide is not slow.. its very fast, its problem is that it only contains a 2-3 hour window of programming before it needs to refresh, that problem is reportedly well known because it was supposed to be a feature from the 811 spec sheet of at least a 2-day guide, which to me is 48 hours, and there isn't one yet until they fix that part of the code.

I've had one or two lockups, resets have always fixed that, however it shows the immaturity of the code and will get better..

If you are getting check switch messages, It may not be 811, it could be one of your switches is failing, you would probably have to diagnose that with a tech or the installer that setup your system if you didn't do it yourself.

I hope you can return that $100 Monster DVI cable, it wasn't worth it, you can get one for probably less than $30 and have the same quality picture and save $70 or more...

Bottomline, if you have not called Dish to report your issues, call them and see what they say and make sure that you don't let them slide on the dark video.. Ask them if its being worked on..
------

John, you give it a try, or did you just decide it wasn't worth the effort... 

Norm


----------



## lesmoss

normang said:


> If you are getting check switch messages, It may not be 811, it could be one of your switches is failing, you would probably have to diagnose that with a tech or the installer that setup your system if you didn't do it yourself.


That's what I thought until I replaced the switch and got the same result. I can reliably reproduce this problem by any reset of the box. (Any reset includes pulling the power plug, holding the power button for 5+ seconds or getting a software download.)

My config is two dishes: Usual 500 plus 61.5 via a SW21. It may be only that configuration that triggers the problem. It seems that the reset causes some corruption to the switch/dish configuration tables which are rebuilt by check switch function.


----------



## lesmoss

fixoman said:


> 5. When powering up the receiver I sometimes get a fault saying to check switch, Then I have to go through the menu and run check switch test and this takes several minutes to do so.


Leaving the unit powered on all the time solves this problem for me.

What is your dish and switch configuration? I am trying to figure out why it only happens to some 811s.


----------



## JohnMI

normang said:


> John, you give it a try, or did you just decide it wasn't worth the effort...


Finally took the time today and messed with all of the cabling. I needed to add an XBox with the High-Def box outputs into the mix -- which I think is why I was avoiding getting back there -- lots of rerouting and such to make it all work -- too many component outputs! 

In any case, while back there, I put the S-Video cable on the 811 and switched back and forth between the Component and S-Video. I agree that the S-Video is, in some cases, significantly darker than the Component output. There is indeed a problem there.

Of course, I believed you -- but this does indeed reconfirm it! 

- John...


----------



## JohnMI

lesmoss said:


> Leaving the unit powered on all the time solves this problem for me.


But then you miss any updates that might come -- as we hope for them. 



> What is your dish and switch configuration? I am trying to figure out why it only happens to some 811s.


I'll add that I seem to have this problem also -- I've had to retest my switch to get things working several times now -- and I really haven't been using the 811 THAT much. I have a DishPro Twin connected to a DP34.

And, when I go in to do it, everything looks accurate -- it has everything already properly detected. Then I do the retest, it looks identical -- and starts working again. Odd.

- John...


----------



## Monty1234

Hello All, 
Called Dish to finially get installation with (2) 301's and (1) 811, but They tell me that the 811 is already on back-order and please call after the 6th of Jan. My question is: am I simply waiting for more stock to arrive, or is there a new Promotion coming out.
and, I understand that currently we can view a total of 6 HD's on with the Dish 500 package, any one know of when the others will be moved over to 110?

Thanks Monty


----------



## kstevens

lesmoss said:


> Leaving the unit powered on all the time solves this problem for me.
> 
> What is your dish and switch configuration? I am trying to figure out why it only happens to some 811s.


I turn mine on and off regularly throughout the day and I haven't gotten a check switch message yet. I've had my 811 now for nearly 3 weeks.

Ken


----------



## Guest

fixoman said:


> ESPN broadcast most of their programs in what is called an upconversion, meaning that is not a true 1080i. They broadcast some of their primetime games in hd and for a hd schedule go to espn.com


Well fixoman, for being very knowledgeable about home theater equipment,  I'd think you'd know ESPN HD is 720p all the time, as is ABC HD. Everything else is 1080i. When FOX becomes an HD provider, they plan on 720p.


----------



## normang

lesmoss said:


> That's what I thought until I replaced the switch and got the same result. I can reliably reproduce this problem by any reset of the box. (Any reset includes pulling the power plug, holding the power button for 5+ seconds or getting a software download.)
> 
> My config is two dishes: Usual 500 plus 61.5 via a SW21. It may be only that configuration that triggers the problem. It seems that the reset causes some corruption to the switch/dish configuration tables which are rebuilt by check switch function.


I have not seen this issue, though it could be receiver related. Perhaps trying to arrange a swap to see if the symptoms change is the way to go.


----------



## normang

jgoggan said:


> Finally took the time today and messed with all of the cabling. I needed to add an XBox with the High-Def box outputs into the mix -- which I think is why I was avoiding getting back there -- lots of rerouting and such to make it all work -- too many component outputs!
> 
> In any case, while back there, I put the S-Video cable on the 811 and switched back and forth between the Component and S-Video. I agree that the S-Video is, in some cases, significantly darker than the Component output. There is indeed a problem there. Of course, I believed you -- but this does indeed reconfirm it!  - John...


Was that too many component inputs or outputs?

I was looking for more confirmation from someone that had not seen the issue for whatever reason, which to me makes the problem of dark s-video and probably the composite output as well pretty much a universal 811 issue.

If you elect to call Dish again to report this issue and add your 811 to the list of those seeing this issue and see if tech support will acknowledge that this is indeed a problem they are working on, that would be helpful.

So did you get all the cables routed the way you want them.... Norm


----------



## lesmoss

jgoggan said:


> But then you miss any updates that might come -- as we hope for them.


On the other hand, it lets you wait until the general consensus here says the download is "a good thing" before taking it.



jgoggan said:


> I'll add that I seem to have this problem also -- I've had to retest my switch to get things working several times now -- and I really haven't been using the 811 THAT much. I have a DishPro Twin connected to a DP34.


DishPro twin means one Dish 500. No side sat. Correct?

Maybe its the "Twin" that is the common factor:

My Config from the Installation Summary Screen:
Switch: DP-21 LNBs: Twin-0(1) Dual-0(2)
DishPro Connections
Input: 1 1 2
Satellite: 119 110 61.5
Polarity: All All All
Device: Twin Twin Dual



jgoggan said:


> And, when I go in to do it, everything looks accurate -- it has everything already properly detected. Then I do the retest, it looks identical -- and starts working again. Odd.


Ageed. Thats exactly the behavior I see. When the problem occurs, a signal strength test on 110 shows "Wrong Sat - Echostar 61.5 West Signal Strength 86". Seems to be confused about where it's pointed.


----------



## JohnMI

normang said:


> Was that too many component inputs or outputs?


Too many outputs, not enough inputs on my TV.  For devices with component outputs, I have:

1. DVD player
2. 811 (will be DVI later, but doesn't help me much -- see below)
3. XBox

For inputs, my TV has:
1. "Input 1" which picks between the DVI or Component.
2. "Input 2" which has just Component.
3. "Input 3" which is S-Video or Composite.
4. "Input 4" which is S-Video or Composite.

Luckily, my DD6.1 receiver has a decent switched component input (2 inputs, one output). So, what I'm doing now is running the 811 and DVD player (since I'm unlikely to use both of those at once) and running them into the DD receiver -- then out to Input 1 on the TV. Then I have the XBox coming in on Input 2. That way, if I'm feeling crazy, I can do split screen on the TV so that I can play XBox while my wife watches TV from the 811 or 501 -- or she could even watch a DVD, I guess.

(The 501 does into Input 3 via S-Video and I have a second, cheapo DVD player on Input 4 that I use just for SVCDs and things that my good DVD player won't play.)



> I was looking for more confirmation from someone that had not seen the issue for whatever reason, which to me makes the problem of dark s-video and probably the composite output as well pretty much a universal 811 issue.


I tend to agree at this point.



> If you elect to call Dish again to report this issue and add your 811 to the list of those seeing this issue and see if tech support will acknowledge that this is indeed a problem they are working on, that would be helpful.


Indeed -- I will give them a call about it -- just to get more people on the list. I'll likely never use the S-Video output -- but it still needs to be fixed, of course.



> So did you get all the cables routed the way you want them.... Norm


For now (see above).  When my DVI cable arrives, I'll have to rethink about some things -- but I'm good for now. 

- John...


----------



## JohnMI

lesmoss said:


> DishPro twin means one Dish 500. No side sat. Correct?


Correct. I have just a Dish500 with DPTwin and DP34 switch.



> Ageed. Thats exactly the behavior I see. When the problem occurs, a signal strength test on 110 shows "Wrong Sat - Echostar 61.5 West Signal Strength 86". Seems to be confused about where it's pointed.


Indeed -- mine is similar except that I don't have 61.5. It actually gets confused between 110 and 119 when mine has that problem.

Interesting, I had the 811 powered up for about a week without a signal coming it (i.e. I had accidentally left it on, but not in the stream). I connected up the sat feed and it immediately tuned in and was fine. I think this is the longest time I had gone without having to do the switch test when I went to use it. The other times, it would sit (off) for just a day or less and, when powered up, it would be confused about the signal.

Yet another of case of where leaving it all on the time seems to help.  Something "odd" might be happening when it powers up. Some bug in however it reads the switch info maybe when it starts? In any case, definitely something going on there.

- John...


----------



## kstevens

lesmoss said:


> On the other hand, it lets you wait until the general consensus here says the download is "a good thing" before taking it.


You can do the same thing by selecting not to auto update in the system update preferences.

Ken


----------



## sbill67

Nick said:


> What is the aspect ratio of your tv and what inputs are you using?
> 
> I get the following on my 16:9 widescreen Panny:
> 
> Component Input from 811
> HD channels - 16:9, screen filled, no tv aspect control
> SD channels - 4:3, 811's black bars on sides, no tv aspect control
> 
> S-Video Input from 811
> HD channels - 811's black bars top & bottom, except in tv's zoom mode, full tv aspect control
> SD channels - no black bars, tv's gray bars on tv's 4:3 mode, full tv aspect control


That is Great INFORMATION! Thanks, it solved a minor problem on my system.
Thanks guys


----------



## cpdretired

Has anyone observed a horizontal shake in their picture. A rapid left to right movement creating a double image. I can stop it by turning the 811 off then back on. This started to occur in the last two days. It has happened about 3 or 4 times. It doesn't matter if your on HD or SD channels. I have had the 811 for about three weeks. My tv is a Samsung 50" DLP which is about two weeks old. I know it is not the TV as I can switch to OTA antenna and it will stop. I am not going thru the 811.


----------



## rvaidyan

jgoggan said:


> Luckily, my DD6.1 receiver has a decent switched component input (2 inputs, one output). So, what I'm doing now is running the 811 and DVD player (since I'm unlikely to use both of those at once) and running them into the DD receiver -- then out to Input 1 on the TV. Then I have the XBox coming in on Input 2. That way, if I'm feeling crazy, I can do split screen on the TV so that I can play XBox while my wife watches TV from the 811 or 501 -- or she could even watch a DVD, I guess.


I have a similar setup, but wired things a little differently based on advice in one of these forums. Since HD is much higher bandwidth than DVD, I was told to hook the 811 directly to the TV (component 1) and use the receiver to switch between DVD and the XBox. So that's what I did. While I don't know if it makes any difference, the logic behind it seemed sound - avoid the "switching" of the HD signal which is bandwidth-intensive.

BTW, what DVI cable did you get and for how much? What is the length of the DVI run in your setup? I need about 9 feet ...


----------



## JohnMI

rvaidyan said:


> I have a similar setup, but wired things a little differently based on advice in one of these forums. Since HD is much higher bandwidth than DVD, I was told to hook the 811 directly to the TV (component 1) and use the receiver to switch between DVD and the XBox. So that's what I did. While I don't know if it makes any difference, the logic behind it seemed sound - avoid the "switching" of the HD signal which is bandwidth-intensive.


Well, I did it that way for two reasons:

1. I don't have my DVI cable yet. As soon as it arrives, I'll be doing DVI from the 811 directly to the TV -- so things will change. This worked well as a temporary setup.

2. By doing it the way that I did, I could technically play XBox on one half of the screen while my wife watches a DVD (or the 811) on the other. If I did it direct, then should couldn't do a DVD while I did XBox -- although I admitted above that that would be quite rare.

So, when my cable arrives, things will change, so I won't worry about it too much. I can see the logic in what has been said -- although, I'm not convinced that it really matters. I have a feeling that the receiver does a good job of switching them -- to the point where I doubt there is any significant loss to the point of mattering about bandwidth from the 811 to the TV...



> BTW, what DVI cable did you get and for how much? What is the length of the DVI run in your setup? I need about 9 feet ...


A place at work has them fairly cheap and we were ordering some other things, so I took the cheapest ones that they had. They are made by Steren. I actually ordered two -- one to go from my 811 to my TV and one to go from my PC to my TV (I've got an oldered ATI Radeon 9000 card with a DVI output that I'd like to get connected to my TV for playing Uru (the new Myst) on my widescreen). I only have one input on the TV for DVI, so I'll have to switch back and forth between the 811 and PC -- but that will be quite rare. In any case, I bought a 6' single-link DVI-D cable to go from the 811 to the TV for $9.25. And a 10' to go from the TV to the TV (because the PC is actually in another room on the other side of the wall -- I'm going to go through the floor to the basement, over to the other room, and back up) for $12.

Those are our wholesale prices -- but I assume they are close to what you could get them for elsewhere. I really have no idea of quality on the Steren cables. I figure that, for that price, I'd just go for it and see. They say all the standard marketing junk: 18-pin gold plated contacts, 28AWG tinned copper conductors, blah, blah, blah -- so hopefully it works out. 

- John...


----------



## fixoman

gpflepsen said:


> Well fixoman, for being very knowledgeable about home theater equipment,  I'd think you'd know ESPN HD is 720p all the time, as is ABC HD. Everything else is 1080i. When FOX becomes an HD provider, they plan on 720p.


I did not know that ESPN was in 720p, thanks for that info. But can someone explain to me if it is broadcast in 720p all of the time then whydoes the picture looks so much better when a game is advertised as being in HD, mostly their primetime games??????


----------



## Jerry G

fixoman said:


> I did not know that ESPN was in 720p, thanks for that info. But can someone explain to me if it is broadcast in 720p all of the time then whydoes the picture looks so much better when a game is advertised as being in HD, mostly their primetime games??????


Ummm, well, although ESPN is broadcast as 720p, only a very small percentage of the shows/games are in HD. The rest are SD upconverted for broadcast as 720p. The SD shows are stretched by ESPN to fill a 16x9 screen.


----------



## fixoman

normang said:


> fixoman, yes on S-video, and probably composite, video is dark in comparison to component or DVi, however depending on your setup, using component or DVI when watching SD shows, you wind up watching 4:3 in a 16:9 window. Call Dish and tell them to fix S-Video and composite video darkness if you haven't yet.
> 
> While I have yet to see a sound problem, others have and you should report it to Dish if you have not already
> 
> The program guide is not slow.. its very fast, its problem is that it only contains a 2-3 hour window of programming before it needs to refresh, that problem is reportedly well known because it was supposed to be a feature from the 811 spec sheet of at least a 2-day guide, which to me is 48 hours, and there isn't one yet until they fix that part of the code.
> 
> I've had one or two lockups, resets have always fixed that, however it shows the immaturity of the code and will get better..
> 
> If you are getting check switch messages, It may not be 811, it could be one of your switches is failing, you would probably have to diagnose that with a tech or the installer that setup your system if you didn't do it yourself.
> 
> I hope you can return that $100 Monster DVI cable, it wasn't worth it, you can get one for probably less than $30 and have the same quality picture and save $70 or more...
> 
> Bottomline, if you have not called Dish to report your issues, call them and see what they say and make sure that you don't let them slide on the dark video.. Ask them if its being worked on..
> ------
> 
> John, you give it a try, or did you just decide it wasn't worth the effort...
> 
> Norm


I have reported all of the above issues to Dish Network. Response is that they are aware of them and software downloads will correct them, but when???


----------



## fixoman

Jerry G said:


> Ummm, well, although ESPN is broadcast as 720p, only a very small percentage of the shows/games are in HD. The rest are SD upconverted for broadcast as 720p. The SD shows are stretched by ESPN to fill a 16x9 screen.


Thanks for clearing that up.


----------



## fixoman

jgoggan said:


> Oh, I've never argrued against that thought at all. I wasn't trying to make excuses for Dish. My replies to this thread have only been to try to help add to determining the spread of the problem(s) and other such things. For example, my Component output does not look dark -- and we've determine that it appears to primarily be an S-Video problem, I believe. So, I've just been trying to add to that -- not saying one way or the other really on whether or not Dish should have waited to ship.
> 
> I agree that there are problems such as those you listed. I hope my replies haven't been taken the wrong way -- I didn't mean that the 811 is working great! I just wanted us to make sure we stayed specific about what does and does not appear to work for most people...
> 
> You'd think you'd have read not to buy the $100 Monster DVI cables somewhere then.
> 
> Not necessarily. For SD content, it really depends on your cable provider. Some certainly have more bandwidth available for the channels that they provide than Dish does.
> 
> In many case, I think expecting satellite-based SD channels to look better than cable-based ones is asking for too much. But, I think that really depends on your cable provider, of course.
> 
> I think so, yes.
> 
> - John...


As for the 100.00 dvi cable, I do not use anything cheap in my home theater


----------



## andrew_ballew

Does anyone else besides myself and one other person I could find over on avsforum have the following problem...

I have a native 720p display device that has a relatively poor scaler. I want to feed it the native rate 720p, except for when 720p is output via the 811, either DVI or component, it outputs a scaled standard definition signal... it looks awful. Switching to 1080i fixes the problem, but I want to feed a pixel perfect 720p to my projector. 

Any news or upcoming fixes for this issue? Or is it a rare problem that will require a new box?




Andrew


----------



## JohnMI

fixoman said:


> As for the 100.00 dvi cable, I do not use anything cheap in my home theater


 :lol: hehe... That's fine -- although I think you're still missing the point. But you are welcome to spend whatever you want so that you aren't using anything "cheap" in your Home Theater setup. The fact that you are throwing money away is always up to the consumer, of course...



- John...


----------



## Guest

fixoman said:


> As for the 100.00 dvi cable, I do not use anything cheap in my home theater


You should try those gold plated Toslink cables. Those aren't cheap either.

Bling Bling...


----------



## rvaidyan

Okay, folks, I just finished wading through all 9 pages of this thread and am wondering if one of you experts can help me with a possible bug. There have been several reports of digital OTA tuning problems. Here's my deal:

PROBLEM 1:

ONE of my local digital channels suddenly dropped out (signal strength says 49 and there is no picture or sound on the channel). This was a channel I was getting fine not too long ago and nothing has changed in terms of my antenna set up (except for the recent weather change).

When I try to add the channel manually (ch. 43), the signal meter shows the 49 signal strength for about 30 seconds and then jumps to 83-84 (green) and stays stable. However, when I "save" and go back to the EPG, it still does not show up (and goes back to the 49 signal strength). The channel also shows 43 instead of being mapped to channel 10 (as it used to be). Is this a bug or a problem with my setup (e.g., weather affecting signal, multipath interference, etc.)

PROBLEM 2:

This one is real annoying: When I do a digital scan (for OTA digital channels), it finds my Channel 6 without a problem and adds it to the guide. When I go to the guide a few minutes later, though, I find it is now showgin up as Channel 19 and it no longer shows the station id. The signal from this channel is fine and it shows up correctly as channel 6 on my 6000U. What gives. Why does it suddenly shift from ch 6 to channel 19 (the UHF broadcast channel)?

Any ideas? Should I report this to Dish as a bug or will I be laughed at? What is the email address to report bugs?


----------



## Guest

Your first problem I had too. My 811 received an OTA DTV fine until the current SW download. This station was coming 90 degrees to by antenna's (MXU-59) point direction. I think issues with multipath and inteference kept the 811 from getting a lock. It would show signal strength of 80 after an initial 49.

I solved this by adding a second antenna (RS 150-2160) for $21. Now it comes in strong and rock solid at 86. I used a simple splitter/combiner without channel blocks to combine antennas. I made sure to use equal length coax between the splitter and antennas.


----------



## PoppaNovember

jgoggan said:


> By doing it the way that I did, I could technically play XBox on one half of the screen while my wife watches a DVD (or the 811) on the other.


You dog! I tried that out on my wife, and it lasted about 10 seconds.


----------



## JohnMI

PoppaNovember said:


> You dog! I tried that out on my wife, and it lasted about 10 seconds.


hehe... Well, I must admit that we don't do that very often. I actually just hooked up the XBox for the first time a week or so ago. My wife and I just completed Halo last night -- so it's actually been more of us both playing than having to do any split screen TV/DVD stuff for her.  I'm lucky that way.

- John...


----------



## bloomingtong

Hello,

I am new to the forum so I apologize if my questions have been asked before...

I wish to use my Replay 5040 with the Dish Network 811. Does anyone have suggestions on how to correctly set up the units to work together? What are the correct remote codes to program in the Replay to allow it to operate the 811? The channel guide and scheduling on the Replay is better than that of the Dish 811 and I would like to use the Replay to schedule and record the programming. 

Can the remote that came with the Dish 811 be programmed to replace the Replays remote? If so, how?

Last question... Is there any noticeable difference in image quality using DVI vs. component cables to a HD TV from the 811?

Once again, sorry if these questions are old hat.

G


----------



## Guest

Rvaidvan, I too, have problems with my OTA tuner of the 811. It replaced a 6000 with 8VSB. The 8VSB ran hot and its fan could be heard across the room even with the unit off. But it locked in on all the locally available channels in the Dallas area with a 90+ signal strength. I upgrade to the 811 and the unit runs cooler and much quieter, but it will drop the CBS and the PBS affliliates from 80 to 49 strength then erase them from my list. I have had problems with dark picture on composite and S, as well as aspect ratio. But these problems have had a lot of press in this forum. I am sure DISH will address these problems, but they may not make the OTA problem a piority unless they here about it from those who notice it. I have contacted advanced support and urge others to do the same.


----------



## rvaidyan

rlcoker said:


> Rvaidvan, I too, have problems with my OTA tuner of the 811. It replaced a 6000 with 8VSB. The 8VSB ran hot and its fan could be heard across the room even with the unit off. But it locked in on all the locally available channels in the Dallas area with a 90+ signal strength. I upgrade to the 811 and the unit runs cooler and much quieter, but it will drop the CBS and the PBS affliliates from 80 to 49 strength then erase them from my list. I have had problems with dark picture on composite and S, as well as aspect ratio. But these problems have had a lot of press in this forum. I am sure DISH will address these problems, but they may not make the OTA problem a piority unless they here about it from those who notice it. I have contacted advanced support and urge others to do the same.


When I told them that I had heard of this problem from others on the forum, they said it was NOT an issue they had heard of or are working on. This surprised me as I assumed it was something they had heard of. See my other thread on the issue:

http://www.dbstalk.com//showthread.php?p=182439#post182439


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## Babnitoshi

New DISH subscriber here - I switched from Cablevision because I was disgusted with their crappy HD receiver. Got the 811 installed (It took 7 hours but I got a great deal!).

So far I am very pleased except for one major issue - the picture quality of non-HD channels. So far I think there has been only one mention on this thread of this as MPEG BLOCKING. The only way I can describe the picture is that it looks "pixelized" on the edges and it is worse when the subject or object is moving fast. Example, a newscasters face outline always appears blurred as the little squares transition between colors/shades. A wall for example where the lighting changes does not appear uniform- there are jagged lines where the light intensity transitions. Sorry for the coarse description but I hope someone gets the idea!

Does anyone else have this experience or is it finally time for me to get that laser eye surgery done??

BTW- I am using good quality Component Video Cables going to a Toshiba Widescreen HD ready CinemaSeries TV (57HX81).


----------



## rvaidyan

Babnitoshi said:


> So far I am very pleased except for one major issue - the picture quality of non-HD channels. So far I think there has been only one mention on this thread of this as MPEG BLOCKING. The only way I can describe the picture is that it looks "pixelized" on the edges and it is worse when the subject or object is moving fast. Example, a newscasters face outline always appears blurred as the little squares transition between colors/shades. A wall for example where the lighting changes does not appear uniform- there are jagged lines where the light intensity transitions. Sorry for the coarse description but I hope someone gets the idea!


I apologize if this seems condescending -- that is not my intent. But it is possible that you are seeing this because of your TV settings. Have you used a calibration disk such as Digital Video Essentials to calibrate your TV? The symptoms you describe are most apparent when contrast and especially sharpness are set too high. While it is undeniable that SD performance on these receivers is relatively poor compared to cable, the compression artifacts are made more apparent by overly high contrast and sharpness settings.


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## Babnitoshi

No offense taken - as far as TV settings go - no I have not done an ISF calibration but am planning to do the DVE disk shortly. However, I have tried to adjust sharpness/tint/contrast without success.


----------



## JohnMI

Actually, I commonly see this blockiness on my 57" widescreen also -- from the 811 or 501 or whatever. And, I actually have properly calibrated my TV with Digital Video Essentials. It just seems to be compression artifacts. I've grown used to them over time... I never noticed until I got the larger TV. But, now that things are huge, it is much more obvious.

Now, granted, I wouldn't say that a newscaster's face "always appears blurred" on mine -- just some artifacts now and then. So, maybe he is having some other problem -- or it is just more obvious if it is a calibration problem. But, again, even properly calibrated, there are going to be obvious pixelation/compression artifacts when you're watch SD content on a 57" screen...

- John...


----------



## Stranger Monsoon

jgoggan said:


> :lol: hehe... That's fine -- although I think you're still missing the point. But you are welcome to spend whatever you want so that you aren't using anything "cheap" in your Home Theater setup. The fact that you are throwing money away is always up to the consumer, of course...
> 
> 
> 
> - John...


I too am using GOOD (AudioQuest) DVI-D cables for my 811. I almost purchased a Pacific Cables (www.pacificcable.com/) DVI-D cable ($18), but decided to bite the bullet and get the better. I use a Pacific Cables DVI cable on my computer.

QUESTION: Who is the AUTHORITY that came up with the claim that the 'cheap' is every bit as good as the 'expensive'? I went to the AudioQuest website and read their CABLE THEORY section. Their literature does not support this claim. Propoganda? Maybe. Can I get some direction to some literature re: this DVI cable issue?

I am not trying to be antagonistic here, just in search of knowledge.

Thanks.....SM


----------



## JohnMI

We're not saying that the quality of cables might not vary at all. We're just saying that it is the general concensus (of those that have used them and not -- although I'm sure there are exceptions) that the Monster cables at $100+ are way overpriced. The idea is that you can get much cheaper DVI cables that appear to the vaste majority of users to be at least as good as the $100 Monsters.

Now, I have no idea about AudioQuest -- I really don't know anything about them. How good they are, I couldn't say. I am willing to say that, in general, if you spent over $100 on your DVI-D cables, then I think you overpaid significantly -- and that they aren't that much better than cables you could get for, say, $25-$30.

That's all. Certainly not saying that cheap is always every bit as good as expensive. Just saying that $100+ is probably wasting money, IMO.

- John...


----------



## Guest

You can compare DVI-D cable quality in the same means you compare Toslink optical cables. They are both digital transmissions. Some companies are selling very expensive toslink cables touting their superior quality and "gold plated connectors". Just what property does gold have that lends it to making a better optical "conductor"? It makes the buyer feel better thinking they have a better signal conveyance by spending more money, that's about it..

DVI cables are more complicated than toslink cables, for sure. But they are a simple cable working in the digital realm. If they are not working properly you will have picture degradation which will be on a wholesale basis; such as massive macroblocking, picture freezing etc. A poor quality DVI cable will not manifest itself with poor color rendition or poor focus.


----------



## willy

Absolutely Correct. If you had *any* digital distortion, it would be a gross problem with your image... not color, brightness, etc. Im not saying you wont see a difference with a bad cable- just that you would KNOW there is an issue right away.


----------



## Guest

The pixelation and contouring (that is the proper name for the shading problems you are seeing) is much worse on the 811. 

It is compounded on the s-vid and composite outputs because of the lower black levels.

If dish wanted to hide the problem it would have set the ire levels on the sd video outputs to the proper 7.5 level instead of at the 0 ire which HD calls for.


----------



## buckyp

I received my 811 on Tuesday.

I too am displeased with SD quality. My old (and I mean old) receiver looked better than the 811 on my 65 inch. I fixed some of it through TV settings ( I over compensated with the old receiver), but my pictures are a little dark while it seems blurry or smudged. The colors are too overstated. I'll keep playing with the colors.

I am using the component cables the installer used.

What else should I try. Some of the HD is incredible. Some isn't (ESPN)


----------



## Nick

In addition to component out to the HDTV, I'm also using my 811's S-video output for comparison purposes, and find it within acceptable limits. Why are you people using S-video out? The 811 is a high-definition receiver!


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## normang

Nick said:


> In addition to component out to the HDTV, I'm also using my 811's S-video output for comparison purposes, and find it within acceptable limits. Why are you people using S-video out? The 811 is a high-definition receiver!


Nick, depending on your TV's capabilties. on many a 4:3 TV if you use component out for SD, you wind up with a 4:3 image in a 16:9 window. So if you want to watch 4:3 SD full screen, you have to use S-Video.


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## Guest

A good analogy for dvi cable quality is dish size. Buying a "high quality" cable is the equivalent of buying a physically larger dish and expecting the image to improve. Unless you aren't getting a signal or are on the border of acceptable signal level, there will be absolutely no difference. Digital is a stream of ones and zeros (either on or off) there is no half on or off.


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## kstevens

Nick said:


> In addition to component out to the HDTV, I'm also using my 811's S-video output for comparison purposes, and find it within acceptable limits. Why are you people using S-video out? The 811 is a high-definition receiver!


If you have televisions like mine, if you feed the component signal, it detects that it is a progressive scan signal and automatically locks it into Full mode, which doesn't look very good with a SD 4:3 channel.

Ken


----------



## dschlack

Nick said:


> In addition to component out to the HDTV, I'm also using my 811's S-video output for comparison purposes, and find it within acceptable limits. Why are you people using S-video out? The 811 is a high-definition receiver!


Nick, I agree with buckp. I too am using the S-video for comparison and find it totally unacceptable. I no longer watch SD on my widescreen. The 301 I replace had a much superior picture.


----------



## Guest

cpdretired said:


> Has anyone observed a horizontal shake in their picture. A rapid left to right movement creating a double image. I can stop it by turning the 811 off then back on. This started to occur in the last two days. It has happened about 3 or 4 times. It doesn't matter if your on HD or SD channels. I have had the 811 for about three weeks. My tv is a Samsung 50" DLP which is about two weeks old. I know it is not the TV as I can switch to OTA antenna and it will stop. I am not going thru the 811.


I have a verticle jitter that happens like clockwork every 34 seconds. It is very visible on the standard Dish channels but you can really see it on CNBC and the Weather channel because of the stationary graphics. It is in the OTA section also. Not discernable in on HD channels.

The guide and channel info overlays don't jitter when the video jitters. So I have to believe it is in the sync of the digital down feed that is being "noised" or lost every 34 seconds. This is the 2nd 811 with the same problem.


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## andrew_ballew

buckyp said:


> I received my 811 on Tuesday.
> 
> I too am displeased with SD quality. My old (and I mean old) receiver looked better than the 811 on my 65 inch. I fixed some of it through TV settings ( I over compensated with the old receiver), but my pictures are a little dark while it seems blurry or smudged. The colors are too overstated. I'll keep playing with the colors.
> 
> I am using the component cables the installer used.
> 
> What else should I try. Some of the HD is incredible. Some isn't (ESPN)


If you have only had your 811 since Tuesday, then you have not seen anything in HD on ESPN. Tune in tonight for some HD basketball. You can see the ESPNHD schedule at this link.

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tvlistings/espnhd/index?

everything else will be standard def.


----------



## Nick

dschlack said:


> Nick, I agree with buckp. I too am using the S-video for comparison and find it totally unacceptable. I no longer watch SD on my widescreen. The 301 I replace had a much superior picture.


Forgive me for continuing to ping on this point. When I got the 811, I had just purchased my Panny 16:9 a few months earlier, so I was hooking up an HD receiver to an HD capable TV. A match made in video heaven, so to speak.

In regard to all the complaints here about the 811, I am still curious about two situations that I apparently don't yet understand:

1. Why would someone who only has a standard 4:3 NTSC TV buy an 811 HD receiver? Is it because they expect an improved picture? I don't buy that.



> I no longer watch SD on my widescreen.


You have an HDTV - why would you want to do that to begin with?

2. Why would someone who has an HDTV set use an S-video cable to connect to the 811 HD receiver as a primary viewing option?

I have been enjoying HD since this time last month only because Dish offered me an affordable interim option and I had an HD capable TV of producing an excellent picture via component inputs.

I guess what I don't understand is why someone would get an 811 as in either of the above instances and expect an improved picture using S-video connections. 

Help me out here.


----------



## normang

Nick said:


> In regard to all the complaints here about the 811, I am still curious about two situations that I apparently don't yet understand:
> 
> 1. Why would someone who only has a standard 4:3 NTSC TV buy an 811 HD receiver? Is it because they expect an improved picture? I don't buy that.
> 
> You have an HDTV - why would you want to do that to begin with?


Because there are people with 4:3 HDTV's, not 16:9 widescreen HDTV's, and they watch HD in 16:9 on a 4:3 TV which looks just as good as on a widescreen HDTV, the only difference, you have black bars at the top and bottom of the 16:9 screen on a 4:3 TV.... Does that help make it clearer for you?



> 2. Why would someone who has an HDTV set use an S-video cable to connect to the 811 HD receiver as a primary viewing option?


Its does not mean S-Video is the "primary" viewing option, its can be a secondary viewing option, however S-Video becomes a primary viewing option for SD because as I mentioned earlier, on a 4:3 HDTV, using component in, (in most cases probably) you wind up watching SD 4:3 in a 16:9 window, not 4:3 full screen. If you want to watch SD 4:3 program in full screen on a 4:3 HDTV you have to use S-Video.

Do you understand it now? Norm


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## Guest

A lot of us have Projectors for HD. Not RPTV's
We watch sd on a tv and HD on a projector, so we need better quality on the S-vid output of the 811 as it is definitely not practical to watch everthing on the projector


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## kiran

I finally got my 811 installed on Monday and so far I have not have any major problems/annoyances. I have a 34" Wide Screen Sony XBR and this is a match made in heaven. I have used one of my other component connection. So far, I am loving it, with all my locals broadcasting in HD during primetime. The picture is stunning.

Will keep you posted, this forum has been really helpful. 

One question I have, where can I find some good quality DVI cables (price around $25). Checked out RadioShak and they had cables for $100. How much are they in Fry's - any one knows?

Regards,
Kiran


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## kstevens

Nick said:


> Forgive me for continuing to ping on this point. When I got the 811, I had just purchased my Panny 16:9 a few months earlier, so I was hooking up an HD receiver to an HD capable TV. A match made in video heaven, so to speak.
> 
> In regard to all the complaints here about the 811, I am still curious about two situations that I apparently don't yet understand:
> 
> 1. Why would someone who only has a standard 4:3 NTSC TV buy an 811 HD receiver? Is it because they expect an improved picture? I don't buy that.
> 
> You have an HDTV - why would you want to do that to begin with?
> 
> 2. Why would someone who has an HDTV set use an S-video cable to connect to the 811 HD receiver as a primary viewing option?
> 
> I have been enjoying HD since this time last month only because Dish offered me an affordable interim option and I had an HD capable TV of producing an excellent picture via component inputs.
> 
> I guess what I don't understand is why someone would get an 811 as in either of the above instances and expect an improved picture using S-video connections.
> 
> Help me out here.


Did you not read what I posted before? A lot of hdtv have automatic detection circuits that will lock their set into FULL mode it it detects a progressive scan signal (or a hd interlace signal). If you use thecomponent connectors to watch a SD channel, then the screen is screwed up once it locks into FULL. the only way out of this is to use svideo. You can then use the stretch modes to fill the screen as you wish. My Pioneer's natural wide stretch mode is about the best there is for viewing 4:3 content on a 16:9 screen.

Ken


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## Stranger Monsoon

kiran said:


> One question I have, where can I find some good quality DVI cables (price around $25). Checked out RadioShak and they had cables for $100. How much are they in Fry's - any one knows?
> 
> Regards,
> Kiran


When I got my Fujitsu Plasma they recommended Molex Inc. DVI cable No. 88741-8000 (http://www.molex.com/) which costs less than $25. I've also gotten an $18 DVI cable from Pacific Cable (www.pacificcable.com) for my LCD computer monitor. Call them and they will give you the correct model number to order. I bit the bullet and for this item (my Fujitsu Plasma), and this item only, I got the AudioQuest (www.audioquest.com) DV-1-2m DVI cable (and yes it was a $100 cable).


----------



## kiran

Stranger Monsoon said:


> When I got my Fujitsu Plasma they recommended Molex Inc. DVI cable No. 88741-8000 (http://www.molex.com/) which costs less than $25. I've also gotten an $18 DVI cable from Pacific Cable (www.pacificcable.com) for my LCD computer monitor. Call them and they will give you the correct model number to order. I bit the bullet and for this item (my Fujitsu Plasma), and this item only, I got the AudioQuest (www.audioquest.com) DV-1-2m DVI cable (and yes it was a $100 cable).


Thank you... I will check out the sites and will also go and checkout Fry's.

Regards,
Kiran


----------



## shankar

normang said:


> Its does not mean S-Video is the "primary" viewing option, its can be a secondary viewing option, however S-Video becomes a primary viewing option for SD because as I mentioned earlier, on a 4:3 HDTV, using component in, (in most cases probably) you wind up watching SD 4:3 in a 16:9 window, not 4:3 full screen. *If you want to watch SD 4:3 program in full screen on a 4:3 HDTV you have to use S-Video.
> *Norm


 Not necessarily. I have a Toshiba TX61X81 4:3 HD Ready set. I have been watching HD and SD programming with the *component outs *initially with the 6000 and now with the 811. Never had to revert to S-Video.

I prefer watching HD and SD in full screen. So I lied to the 811 that I have a 16:9 and watch HD programs slightly vertically stretched in the normal mode. SD programming is viewed in the "stretch" mode which fills the screen. I don't have to keep switching the aspect ratio. Once setup, the 811 goes to normal mode when it sees HD stations and to stretch modes when it sees SD stations such as CNN etc.

Does this not work for others??


----------



## Cruiser_ss396

I have a Phillips 55PW9363 16:9, it's a 55 inch H/D ready set needing the set top box to get H/D programming. On wed I will be getting an 811 installed, along with a complete dish system for 3 other rooms. I hooked up on a deal that gets me the 811 and 3 other rooms (301 or 501 can't remember) all equpment and installed for $49.00 and first 3 months of 100 plush HBO for free. I know I will have to pay extra for the H/D pack.

Now to the question. My TV has DVI 1080i, and 2 Componet video connections one for 480i and the other for 480P. For the H/D I think it should be hooked up to the DVI, for the SD/ should it be hooked up to the S-Video connection or the componet? I am thinkg the SD should be on the S-Video connection. I am I correct? What cables are coming for this set up/ Should I insist that they hook me up to the DVI connection and supply the cable to do so? I have already told them that One componet video connection is being used for my DVD player and it's the connection that uses 480P or progressive scan. If they hooked me up to this connection I would have to downgrade my DVD connection to 480i. 

I was told all would be ok and not to worry it will be installed correctly and as i need it to be. Any experiances with this? Do the installers get paid enough money to make sure the install goes as it should? 

Thanks
Joe


----------



## JohnMI

Cruiser_ss396 said:


> Now to the question. My TV has DVI 1080i, and 2 Componet video connections one for 480i and the other for 480P. For the H/D I think it should be hooked up to the DVI, for the SD/ should it be hooked up to the S-Video connection or the componet? I am thinkg the SD should be on the S-Video connection. I am I correct?


I think most of the people running S-Video for SD are doing it because they have a 4:3 HD set that does weird things with the HD input otherwise. Since you have a 16:9 TV, I think you should be find to use just the DVI.



> What cables are coming for this set up/ Should I insist that they hook me up to the DVI connection and supply the cable to do so?


It will come with a set of Component cables -- as well as an S-Video, I believe. They won't supply the DVI -- and you won't be able to talk them into it. 



> I have already told them that One componet video connection is being used for my DVD player and it's the connection that uses 480P or progressive scan. If they hooked me up to this connection I would have to downgrade my DVD connection to 480i.


True, but that really isn't their fault. I mean, I know what you are saying -- but Dish isn't going to supply the DVI cable regardless of what you have hooked up. Even if you had some weird TV that ONLY had a DVI input, they still wouldn't provide it.



> I was told all would be ok and not to worry it will be installed correctly and as i need it to be. Any experiances with this? Do the installers get paid enough money to make sure the install goes as it should?


Well, most of them could handle the component cables and would hook that up. You, with an HD that has a single 480p Component input that is current in use makes it a little different than standard. My guess is that they will ask you if you want them to unhook your DVD player or just not connect the 811 up using Component cables (and maybe use S-Video if you have them).

So, in the end, you're going to want to either use the included Component cables to get the 811 to your TV -- or buy a DVI cable. Note: Don't go buy $100+ Monster DVI cables -- don't waste your money.

Hope that helps some!

- John...

P.S. SS396?? Is that Chevelle talk? If so, welcome fellow Chevelle owner! Feel free to check out my wife's '70 SS here!


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## spacemist

The HD output on the 811 is much darker than it should be. I have read that My question is, is Dish aware of this? I had the Dish 6000 and picture was perfect but my new 811 is way to dark, sure I can adjust my TV to take away the blackness but then my picture gets washed out. Is there a service manual to internally tweak the picture in any receivers? Also, my parents have the 301 model and the focus is blurry, again, can it be possible to tweak the focus in these receivers? Also, the 811 which is way to dark, can this be fixed with a download or not.


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## JohnMI

What output are you using? I thought we had come to a fairly decent agreement that the 811 is only "much darker than it should be" through the S-Video (and maybe composite?) output... I thought that many people using DVI or Component had agreed that it might be slightly darker than the 6000, but not to the point of being an issue?

Or was I mistaken on that?

For me, at least, S-Video is too dark (which I hooked up only to test this). The Component output that I am using now seems fine -- not dark. And I'm hearing the same things about DVI.

So -- spacemist -- what output are you using?

- John...


----------



## Guest

Can you get SD output thru the component video cables?


----------



## JohnMI

Yes. Well -- might depend on what you mean by "SD output." Do you mean: "Can I watch an SD channel when I am connected to my TV via Component or DVI cables?" If so, then Yes.

In other words, you don't have to use the S-Video output to be able to see an SD channel. The only reason I see using the S-Video output would be if you don't have a TV with Component or DVI inputs -- or, as mentioned previously, if you have a 4:3 HDTV that forces certain behavior when fed an HD signal via Component/DVI that would make your SD not fill the screen as desired.

- John...


----------



## Guest

jgoggan said:


> Yes. Well -- might depend on what you mean by "SD output." Do you mean: "Can I watch an SD channel when I am connected to my TV via Component or DVI cables?" If so, then Yes.
> 
> In other words, you don't have to use the S-Video output to be able to see an SD channel. The only reason I see using the S-Video output would be if you don't have a TV with Component or DVI inputs -- or, as mentioned previously, if you have a 4:3 HDTV that forces certain behavior when fed an HD signal via Component/DVI that would make your SD not fill the screen as desired.
> 
> - John...


So what happens to the aspect ratio? Can you still adjust it? Like say if it is a SD signal with a 4:3 aspect can I adjust it to 4:3 expanded or does that depend on my TV?


----------



## JohnMI

I'm not sure off hand. I've watched very little SD on my 811 since I have a 501 for that (on the same TV). I can't remember how I set it for SD -- and if I did expansion on my TV or otherwise, sorry. I'm sure someone else here will know though...

- John...


----------



## kstevens

purple1184 said:


> So what happens to the aspect ratio? Can you still adjust it? Like say if it is a SD signal with a 4:3 aspect can I adjust it to 4:3 expanded or does that depend on my TV?


My 16:9 tv will lock into full mode if fed from the component inputs (pioneer elite). Because of this I always use svideo for sd content. The pioneers natural wide expansion mode is about the best in the industry and far superior to the stretch modes on echostars hd receivers.

Ken


----------



## Guest

kstevens said:


> My 16:9 tv will lock into full mode if fed from the component inputs (pioneer elite). Because of this I always use svideo for sd content. The pioneers natural wide expansion mode is about the best in the industry and far superior to the stretch modes on echostars hd receivers.
> 
> Ken


I also have widescreen TV (Hitachi 46W500) that when I connect my over the air Hi-Def set top box won't allow me to adjust the aspect ratio. So I will probably have to use the S-video also.


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## spacemist

I'm using Component and compaired to my 6000 it is way too dark. Dish is sending me a new one this week. Hopefully the video tuner will be set better and hopefully this new one will have the digital output working. They had a known issue about the digital output and many 811's not working, just popping sounds. There working on a fix but it's driving me nuts not getting 5.1. Besides that, the TOO DARK image really wrecks the HD.



jgoggan said:


> What output are you using? I thought we had come to a fairly decent agreement that the 811 is only "much darker than it should be" through the S-Video (and maybe composite?) output... I thought that many people using DVI or Component had agreed that it might be slightly darker than the 6000, but not to the point of being an issue?
> 
> Or was I mistaken on that?
> 
> For me, at least, S-Video is too dark (which I hooked up only to test this). The Component output that I am using now seems fine -- not dark. And I'm hearing the same things about DVI.
> 
> So -- spacemist -- what output are you using?
> 
> - John...


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## Cruiser_ss396

Hey Joggon:

Your right that is Chevelle talk, Camaro too!!!! I have a 69 SS396 Chevelle I am doing a complete restoration on and a 67 Camaro that I drive every day. Yep every day, it's my main transportation.

Pretty nice 70 ya all got there. What happened to the big block? Like most it was robbed many years ago?

You might want to check these sites out:
www.chevelles.com
www.camaros.net

Great places if your into Chevelles and Camaros.

Joe


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## JohnMI

spacemist said:


> I'm using Component and compaired to my 6000 it is way too dark. Dish is sending me a new one this week.


Odd. Well -- let us know how the new one goes. I have a feeling it isn't going to correct the darkness issue though... But, maybe I'll be surprised.



> Hopefully the video tuner will be set better and hopefully this new one will have the digital output working. They had a known issue about the digital output and many 811's not working, just popping sounds. There working on a fix but it's driving me nuts not getting 5.1.


To be honest, I don't think they have an issue with SOME 811s having an optical output problem. I think ALL of the 811s are outputting at below-spec power/brightness from the optical port. And, depending on various conditions, some people see it.



> Besides that, the TOO DARK image really wrecks the HD.


I haven't heard much from people using the Component outputs that have a very dark image. Most seem to be S-Video (which definitely is too dark).

Has your TV been properly adjusted using something such as AVIA / Video Essentials?

- John...


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## JohnMI

Cruiser_ss396 said:


> Your right that is Chevelle talk, Camaro too!!!! I have a 69 SS396 Chevelle I am doing a complete restoration on and a 67 Camaro that I drive every day. Yep every day, it's my main transportation.


Sounds great! We've parked the '70 SS for the winter. Too much salt here in Michigan -- plus rear-wheel drive (that really wants to GO) isn't great on the snow. 



> Pretty nice 70 ya all got there. What happened to the big block? Like most it was robbed many years ago?


Yes, unfortunately -- vanished years ago before we ever saw it (several owners before us actually).



> You might want to check these sites out:
> www.chevelles.com


Yes, I am a paying Team Member there -- great site!

- John...


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## Guest

I ordered the 811 back on December 12 and they just rescheduled me to February 6th stating that is the earlyiest they can do the install. They didn't take that long to bill my CC when I placed my order. I find this very frustrating.


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## JohnMI

I'm actually waiting for a SuperDish and 811 on one order. heh. What are the chances of them ever having both of them available for me in February? Anyone taking odds? 

- John...


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## kiran

Hi,

I am running into this problem with my new 811 receiver. Sometimes after the receiver sits for a while, and I go to view some of the satellite channels, the picture is not being displayed at all. I get a black/blank screen, but strangely, the channel information bar shows up at the top of the screen. This happened sometime last week, and then happened yesterday and then today. Talked to a tech. csr and she asked me to press and hold the power button for 10 secs and then the picture showed up.

Anyone else having the same problem? and is this is bug? and if so, does DISH know about it?

Thanks a lot for your help.

Kiran


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## Guest

For all of you trying to figure out why some espnhd programming does'nt look like it's HD that's because 99% of the time it isn't.To find out exactly when a game is going to be in HD go to (TitanTV.com) it is the best site for finding out when and what is going to be in HD.


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## Guest

Get it from the horses mouth. ESPN HD Schedule: http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tvlistings/espnhd/index


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## zikronix

so im going to be getting this thing soon and i was wondering all the problems with the local channels etc. Does that affect people who would recieve their local channels through the dish its self? I plan on using dvi out put is there anything i need to be aware of. I plan on waiting till feb 1st when the damn thing is free so i have alot of time to research


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## Ron Barry

zikronix said:


> so im going to be getting this thing soon and i was wondering all the problems with the local channels etc. Does that affect people who would recieve their local channels through the dish its self? I plan on using dvi out put is there anything i need to be aware of. I plan on waiting till feb 1st when the damn thing is free so i have alot of time to research


What do you mean when the thing is free? I don't think it will be free to existing customers from what I heard.


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## zikronix

WeeJavaDude said:


> What do you mean when the thing is free? I don't think it will be free to existing customers from what I heard.


im not an existing customer and actully last night i called them and got it for free. I got a two room hook up for free one hd811 and whatever the other is.I told the guy as well that I cant recieve my locals ota not becasue of my range but because of apartment. he said well that will be 5.99 extra to braodcast them through the dish I said no it wont its gogin to be free becasue you even state on your site if they cant be had through the antenna then they will be sent through the dish so he waived that. I will also be getting the top 120 when it comes out. hopefullyt before the 4-6 week leas out time for my box


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## JohnMI

Um, he can't waive your locals fee to the best of my knowledge. Locals via Dish are $5.99/month -- that is just the way it is -- for everyone. There is no statement at the web site that says if you can't get them OTA that they will provide them FOR FREE.

I'd be very interested in seeing your bill in a month or two -- because it just isn't going to happen that you get your locals via Dish and they don't charge you for them...

- John...


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## clapple

Everyone has their own 811 pet peeve. I have some of the same problems as others; but the thing I really want fixed the most, is the OSG. The primary reason I up graded(?), from the 6000, was the promised two day guide. The 811 guide is no better, and perhaps worse, than the 6000. I really want that corrected first!


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## kstevens

clapple said:


> Everyone has their own 811 pet peeve. I have some of the same problems as others; but the thing I really want fixed the most, is the OSG. The primary reason I up graded(?), from the 6000, was the promised two day guide. The 811 guide is no better, and perhaps worse, than the 6000. I really want that corrected first!


I upgraded for 2 reasons, the 40 hour guide and open tv.

Ken


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## Guest

Per a post on here many weeks ago, I sold my 811 on ebay for $350. For $299, I got a Samsung HD rec. with a Direct TV deal. It works perfectly, picks up more HD OA channels, and have never had to be rebooted or anything like that. Comparing this to the 811 is a joke. I can't believe Dish actually released a product like that.


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## shivane

Hello,

This is my first time here and let me say wow. What a great forum. I only found this place by googling my 811 problems. I finally got my 811 installed today(jan. 17 2004) after waiting about one month from my originally scheduled installation date. The main problems that concerned me were dark picture and somewhat bleeding color when using S-Video or Composite outputs. This is big concern for me since I sitll use a VCR to tape programs. The SD image quality from Component output looks fine and HD qaulity is great. Another problem was much lower audio levels from RCA audio outputs (also mentioned on these forums). Finally, my UHF remote completely stopped working when I plugged in an antenna to the 8VSB input and while I tried to view HD off-air local programming. I was able to use an infrared remote from the 301 receiver to regain control. For now, i just unplugged the off-air antenna since the local channel HD content is not that great yet anyway (atlanta, ga). I contacted Dish about the first two issues and they said wait 3-4 weeks for a new update. A question to anyone: It seems most of these problems (dark picture via svideo or composite and low audio from rca outputs) are happening to many people. Are these in fact going to be fixed with a software/firmware update or are they a permanent hardware flaw? Thanks.

--Shivane


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## cee

Im not trying to put the little dishes down or anything i had dtv and dishnetwork they where good but I had to go back to my BUD dish in case if anyone doesnt know what a bud is "BIG UGLY DISH " The bandwidth of a bud is amazing well put it to you this way my 4dtv dc+2 is almost the same quality of a HD picture of a little dish and my HDD decoder crushes cable,dtv and dishnetwork all togther.I was paying for service with the little dishes $87 and $57 a month with a bud dish also know as c band i pay $66 a month and i get (5 HBOs Analog Feeds14 Digital Feeds 2 hdtv feeds) (Showtime 2 Analog Feeds 22 Digital Feeds 2 hdtv feeds) (max 3 analog feeds 8 digital feeds 2 hdtv feeds )(starz 3 analog feeds 32 digital feeds 2 hdtv feeds)(tmc 2 analog feeds 6 digital feeds 2 hdtv feeds ) etc etc sundance flix ifc and so on thats only $43 a month to that i added a starter package basics channels twc amc mtv ect ect and with the big sat providers they have la cartels meaning u pick what channels u want u could do 1 3 6 or 12 month fees now u have wild feeds thats about i would say over 100 channels meaning occassional video like sports feeds fox abc nbc what ever they show on c and ku band then u have fta (free to air ) thats over 250 channels free u need a fta reciever for that dont forget a c band dish moves to different sats which is around 25 sats and that u could get about 12 sats on the atlantic well anyway i get on a fta reciever 8 channels from italy on differnet sats including the rai for free (in the clear) but on a fta reciever channels come and go so u cant get used to those channels but new ones are always up all radio channels are free rock rap ect ect well thats what a c band dish is and what it can do i have a dsr 922 dc +2,vc 2+ with a hdd200 hdtv decoder and a beck fta reciever 8.5 foot orbitron dish with norsat lnbs with 36 " actuator arm. c band is not for everyone becuase of space so cable and the little dishes are more better in there ways for people who dont have the space 
Ill never give up my c band dish again :0) good luck heres a cool website which shows U all the sats in space there slots and tps (transponders) 
www.lyngsat.com !pride dsr 922 and hdd 200 is made by motorola if u have money to spend and space a bud dish is for u its always exciting to watch.dont let anyone tell u that c band is dead it will never die!!


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## kstevens

One thing I can't figure out, how can the signal strength for local digital stations be different on my 6000 verses the 811. The 6000 consistently gives strenghts above 84% on all 4 stations while the 811 varies for 20% to 80%. 2/3's of the time I lose the stations.

Ken


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## WHNB

I took the Dish Network HDTV-in-a-box offer in late December. Here are some observations of the Dish 34" HDTV CRT coupled with the 811 receiver:

While watching over-the-air digital channels and even HDNet, it is normal to sometimes see pixelation accompanied by audio drop-outs. With my former set-up, a Dish model 6000 receiver with 8VSB and an analog Sony 25" XBR TV, the audio would quickly resume after these drop-outs. But when pixelation and audio "hiccups" occur with the Dish monitor and 811 receiver, the audio is lost, sometimes for over 20 minutes. The on-screen volume level indicator will be at the same level as before the audio was lost, but no sound can be heard. Changing the channel will not necessarily bring the audio back; sometimes turning the 811 off and then back on again will restore the audio but it will be at a much lower volume level. 

I am unsure if this has something to do with the monitor's automatic volume level feature, which is supposed to keep the audio level of commercials the same as the program. But this scenario occurs without fail: picture breaks up into pixels, audio spikes, sound does not come back unless you intervene with the remote by turning the 811 off and then back on.

Also, while watching local digitals and the channels in the HD package, the picture does not go all the way to the lower right-hand corner of the monitor as it does when the America's Top 100 are viewed. The edge of the picture slightly bends leaving a small black area. As a test, when I pressed the "Format" button on the remote to put the picture into the "Gray Bars" mode, I noticed that the gray does extend right to the edge of the TV screen in the lower right corner, so the phosphors are lighting up in that area. But the black area moved from the lower right-hand corner of the TV screen to the lower right corner of the picture that is centered on the screen between the gray bars. Could this be some sort of alignment issue?

I have connected the 811 to my VCR via the component-out jacks and can view recorded material by putting the TV into "Vid1" mode. But the 811 defaults to the "DVI Dish" mode whenever it is turned off, so the only way that I can be sure that my VCR is being fed a signal when it turns on for a timed recording is to do the following before I turn off the monitor:
(1)put Dish monitor into the VID1 mode through the Channel Guide menu.
(2)turn off monitor.
(3)leave 811 on. If I were to turn off the 811, and have its internal timer turn itself on for an unattended recording, as soon as the 811's timer turns the 811 on the receiver reverts to the DVI Dish mode and my VCR would record a dark screen.

There is also poor audio quality evident when using the Dish HDTV's component connections that was not there when my VCR was hooked up in the same way to my old Sony TV.

Finally, the 34" monitor frequently gives off what I can only describe as "settling" noises whether on or off. This is the sound of plastic rubbing together toward the lower front of the set that sometimes makes it sound as if the TV is on when in fact it is off. I assume this must be due to the 140lbs weight of the monitor being supported by a plastic chassis.


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## Stranger Monsoon

We just got our 811 installed yesterday, Jan. 17.  Here are some observations :eek2: , plans  etc. for my 811.

This was my installer's 3rd 811 installation. The first box was defective. We waited and got a second box which installed quickly. Thanks to this thread  I knew to ask my installer to view the S-Video and the short duration of the OSG (Over-The-Screen-Guide) and make a note of it on his installation form.

The first day we lost our sound.  Once again, thanks to this forum I knew to do a hard boot by pulling the power plug or hold the power button in for 10 seconds to accomplish same. The system booted up with sound once again. 

Day 2 we notice that with the HD package we were supposed to get CBS HD. Going to the website we found out we should be receiving either channel 9453 or 9452 (WCBSDT or KCBSDT). These are both CBS HD channels, one in LA and the other in NY. We did not automatically get this with our installation. We had to specifically ask a tech to add it to our line-up.,,,  ,,,,,

on Day 2 when we called the tech and addressed the S-Video darkness issue, the loss of sound issue and the short OSG issue.  

Re: S-Video Darkness: His advise was that we didn't need S-Video since we were using DVI. "Au contraire!" I say, "I want S-Video and Composite capabilities for VHS taping." "Have you heard of this issue before?" I say. "No. This is the first time I've heard of this issue" he replied. "Au contraire!", I say. I let him know that I read the DBSTalk.com thread on the Dish Network 811 problems and almost everyone mentions this problem. :nono2: 

RE: Loss of Sound: "Have you heard of this problem?" I say. "Oh Yes!. Yes I have", the tech replied. :lol: 

At this point I asked him to make a note of these problems with my system. In three months, if this persists, Dish Network will once again get a request to repair these items. Again at 6 months and 9 months. At month 11, if these problems are not fixed, I will request and hopefully receive a new 811 under the conditions of my warranty.


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## Stranger Monsoon

Stranger Monsoon said:


> Day 2 we notice that with the HD package we were supposed to get CBS HD. Going to the website we found out we should be receiving either channel 9453 or 9452 (WCBSDT or KCBSDT).


The 2 CBS channels are actually 9453 & 9454 (not 9452)


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## Ron Barry

I had my 811 installed on Saturday and I have had two days to play with it. I had a very intersting thing happen with my install and I will get to that later..I have had a 6000 for 8 months so I have something to compare it too. 

First off the bad that I have seen. 

1) One lock up very early in my experience. This was with the 811 remote and I get the feeling that there might be a timing issue with the input codes. I have not had any when using my Pronto. No problems with the Neo 3000. 

2) I lost sound once. In my case this seemed to be related to loosing and OTA channel. WHat seems to happen (This also happend with the 6000) is that when you manually add some OTAs they seem to have a mind of their own and want to live on the channel frequency. For example, I added CBS 2 manually and it would disappear if I added it manually and then reappear as channel 60. I kept trying to get it to stick as 2 but it kept moving to 60. I had this problem with the 6000 and I figured to let it stay at 60. The sound loss occurred during this process. Maybe related maybe not. 

3) The Picture on Guide Feature. Turned it on.. Things seemed to get unstable (See 1 and 2) and feature did not work well, so I disabled it. People with 811s I suggest disabling this feature. It seems to improve stability. 

4) The composite Input should be used rarely. The PQ on these are pretty poor and very jaggy. I was hoping to use them for my Video Cam input but decided against it with all the jaggies. 

5) Lots of usability issues in terms of navigation. Sometimes forgets where it has been before. 

6) Guide too short. 

Though these issues can be annoying, I did not see any as what would constitute a showstopper. Given it was 150 bucks and I saw it has a step up for the 6000.

*** Now that I got through the bad (I dont see it as too bad actually) now the good ***
1) Guide is very fast compared to the 6000. 
2) Guide is easier to read for Older folks. Grandma likes it!!
3) I did not see a lot of difference between DVI and component though I did feel that DVI was a tad richer in color. I have a Sony GWII 60".
4) I did feel that the picture quality on the 811 (DVI/Component) was a notch better than the 6000. Highly subjective and maybe just new user experience, but I did notice less shimmering on CBS football. DVI has not be calibrated.
5) Like the DVI. 18 dollar cable and it looks great. Freed up my component for my PS2.
6) Nicer interface. 
7) Love the quiet.
8) OTA tuning is improved. Have not seen any drop outs on strong channels that I was seeing before. UPN is marginal, but that might be improved with some preamp tuning. 

Overall, I like the 811 and I am glad I moved from the 6000. I know I left a few things out and if I remember I will let you guys know. 

Now on to the Install... 
This was the 3rd Appointment. You guys are going to love this on.... 

1) Tech installed it and then told me he was going to take the 6000 back for return. I quickly said "I was under the impression the 6000 stays with me.. Check with Dish when you activate it". He did and Dish said it was mine... So after the tech tried to nab my 6000, he told me I should be getting channels in the next 10 minutes. He left.

2) While waiting for my activation, I tried to tune my OTA in. No signal? Turns on the tech did not plug my OTA cable in.. Duh!! I plug it in and get a signal. Do a scan.. grab the channels, but can't get 2 and 4. 

2) Hour later.. No channels yet.. Call Dish.. Turns out the Tech gave the wrong serial number. Duh!!!. I mention about not getting 2 and 4 OTA... Put on hold. Explain.. Put on Hold... explain more.. Put on hold. Advance tech comes on. I explain again.. No progress... I had not spent a lot of time so I told him I would try a few things and if no progress call them back. 4 and 7 was given very strange readings... 49% 54% and then 0. Did not seem random at all. Tech suggest hooking up 6000 and make sure the signal is strong and that the 811 is more sensitive to a weak signal.

3) I unhook my preamp.. no success.

4) I hook up the 6000.. Hmmm it is doing the same thing..It is not the damn 811...  

5) I look at my wiring and notice that I have the cable routing through my power conditionar. I unplug the cable and remove the power conditionar from the loop. I did this because for some strange reason the 811 satellite check failed until the power conditionar was removed from that loop.

6) Bingo.. Solid 4 and 7 channels and a bunch more. I am getting a lot better OTA experience for sure. I don't have a clue why I had OTA problems after the swap but it did show up on both the 6000 and 811. Maybe something got tweaked on the power conditionar during the install. Goes to show sometimes the problem is not where you think it is. 

On one last note.. I ran one day on component and one day on DVI. Both looked great and a step above my 6000. Here is my priority list on the problems. 


1) Fix the OTA issues with channels disappearing. This might lead to the sound issues. 
2) Fix loosing sound.
3) Fix lock up (Seems to occur when scrolling fast with the 811 remote)
4) Fix the Screen on the GUIDE. THis might be causing a lot of stability issues and I really like it on my 508. 
5) Fix all the navigational issues. 
6) Fix Svideo darkness. (I never even looked at svideo since I live in DVI world and hardly tape with my HT). 
7) Fix the GUIDE for 40hours. (I put this last because I dont see this has high priority compared to the other issues). Nice to have, but is not annoying or essential to my daily use. 

Other things I would like to see: 
1) Make Guide take up all 16x9 area. 
2) Manual OTA mapping. Seems that having a manual way to place channels would remove problems associated with station provided info and would be easier to implement properly. 
3) Guide Info Mapping. Allow mapping from the dish CBS to the OTA so that you can see info on the OTA. Actually I would put this on top of enhancements. 

Well Thats enough... I need to take some pics of my HT and add it to the list.. overall I give the 811 a thumbs up. It has its warts but I feel the ups outweight the downs and my increased PQ is welcomed for sure.


----------



## zikronix

so a question comes into mind i have a 16:9 tv philips 51W9363 Im looking @ dishdepot, vmcsatelite and allsat all which are running deals. I dont want to pay for shipping on and 811 and the equipment but if i dont have to wait then bonus. Im a new customer looking for a 2 room install. I cannont receive OTA siginals for hd in my area so my locals will be provided by dishnetwork.So If i connect this thing via DVI to my tv that will be the only connection i need to watch ALL of my channels correct. Additonally I called dish to see when i can get an install they told me 4-6 weeks but yet dishdepot has the recievers in stock. Whats the deal there? Additonally I wanted to go with the DHP free equipment, warrenty. I noticed it 34.99 (top 100) + 5.99 (locals)+9.99(HD) +4.95 (second room) which is all dandy when they switch to the top 120 can i change to that package with out it costing me or extending me as i think it will save me money?


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## Stranger Monsoon

zikronix said:


> So If i connect this thing via DVI to my tv that will be the only connection i need to watch ALL of my channels correct.


I hooked up both the DVI and S-Video cablesfrom my 811 to my Fujitsu Plasma monitor. I can foresee that I will never use the S-Video / Composite unless I want to tape to a VHS. If complaining to a tech, I tell them that I will want to tape using the S-Video and/or Composite cable.

My Fujitsu Plasma will not alter the DVI input signal to Normal, Wide, Stretch, etc. WYSIWYG here. To view SD channels via DVI, I will select the Partial Zoom Mode signal being output from the 811. Other WIDE options are Normal, Full Zoom, etc.

Of course HD content will be viewed using the Normal setting on the 811.

SM


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## zikronix

hmm im not sure if my set adjust automatically i would like to think it does I guess ill find out friday.


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## zikronix

I just heard from my sat provider that this problem only affects the jvc recievers ???? but not the ones dish actully manufacuters


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## JohnMI

zikronix said:


> I just heard from my sat provider that this problem only affects the jvc recievers ???? but not the ones dish actully manufacuters


Um, which problem are you referring to exactly?

- John...


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## dmccard

Chuck Updyke said:


> Has anyone had trouble getting the 811 to add OTA Digital channels? I go to add digital channel screen & it shows
> green signal bar but will not store the channel. Same channel works fine off 6000 & same antenna.
> When I do a channel scan if does not find the channel


Just had a new install for myself and my parents within the last week. A mixed bag on the OTA channels. I did have one channel(NBC) that shows a signal strength, but the channel is not there. Some information shows that the channel is supposed to be active, but the "official" NAB list does not show it to be active. You might try to contact the station to be sure they are transmitting. It's possible they may be in a testing mode. I do have trouble with the station labeling. Some work and some do not.

dmccard


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## Guest

I have a Dish 811 connected to my Samsung 65" CRT RPTV via DVI. When viewing at 1080i, the tv will occasionally go black for 1-2 seconds, then restart. It does not do this when viewing at 720p. Is this the 811, my tv, or something else?


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## JohnMI

I would guess TV -- but I can't say that for certain, of course.

- John...


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## zikronix

jgoggan said:


> Um, which problem are you referring to exactly?
> 
> - John...


the darkness and the sound issue


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## JohnMI

zikronix said:


> the darkness and the sound issue


Then what your "sat provider" told you is garbage. Those issues are definitely present in Dish 811s -- not just JVC.

On a side note, who told you that exactly. Who do you mean by your "sat provider"? Do you actually mean that Dish told you that only the JVC 811s have these problems and not theirs? That would be an interesting statement! heh.

- John...


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## willy

Heh- yea- JVC makes all 811's... unless Im missing something.


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## JohnMI

I don't know actually. I just know that it applies to 811s straight from Dish, so it applies to all of them.

I assumed, based on what he had said, that maybe there were Dish labeled 811s and JVC labeled 811s. Aren't the 6000s like that, for example?

- John...


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## zikronix

no the sales guy i asked hinm about it he said hes never heard of any problems.


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## JohnMI

Well, he simply doesn't know then. The problems exist -- in almost all 811 (if not just plain "all") receivers. So, in other words, ignore your sales guy.

- John...


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## shivane

Does anyone know if there is an extra charge for an HD version of CBS. I live in atlanta and have subscribed to local atlanta channels, HD channel package and AT100 (the package that is free from 3 months). I thought for sure I should get the CBS HD channel but Dish says it will be an extra $1.50/month assuming i live in a qualifying area.


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## lesmoss

shivane said:


> Does anyone know if there is an extra charge for an HD version of CBS. I live in atlanta and have subscribed to local atlanta channels, HD channel package and AT100 (the package that is free from 3 months). I thought for sure I should get the CBS HD channel but Dish says it will be an extra $1.50/month assuming i live in a qualifying area.


I get it for free. I don't sub to any locals or distant locals. I think CSRs mistakenly treat it as a distant local.


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## BlackWuken

Hey guys, this is my first post on the forums. I got the 811 receiver and thought I should comment...

I had the 811 receiver installed on Saturday. Within the first 10 minutes of use I had a crazy freeze/lockup on the menu screen. I couldn't scroll through the menu or do anything except cancel and go back to the channel I was watching. I unplugged the receiver to fix that problem. Then after about an hour I had the audio drop out on some channels, had to unplug to fix that as well (I'm using optical for audio). Since then everything has been working.

About the dark issue. I am using the component outputs and my picture has dark issues. But I don't think it can simply be 'fixed' by turning up the brightness or contrast on your TV. It appears that brighter areas of the picture are correct. The whites are white, and other lighter colors appear the way they should. If you try to increase brightness on the TV it starts to wash those colors out, or creates blooming in the white areas.

It seems like any areas of the picture that are below a certain point, such as in shadowing areas in movies, or if someone is wearing darker colored clothes, you lose detail and everything turns into a dark blur. It seems like Dish will have to fix this issue and can't be fixed by messing with your TV. 

FYI my HDTV is a JVC AV-48WP30 I'Art PRO and I have the receiver set to display at 1080i because that is the default resolution of the TV. Another thing I noticed is that if I pick 720p as the output the picture is noticiablly less sharp (if anyone else has this TV make sure you are outputting at 1080i). I have used my DVD player and Digital Video Essentials to correctly set colors/brightness, etc. So I know what the picture should look like, and I know if what I'm watching is too bright or dark.

I can't wait until this problem is fixed. It's embarassing to show friends HDTV programming and have them comment on how they can't see details in dark areas.


----------



## Ron Barry

BlackWuken said:


> FYI my HDTV is a JVC AV-48WP30 I'Art PRO and I have the receiver set to display at 1080i because that is the default resolution of the TV. Another thing I noticed is that if I pick 720p as the output the picture is noticiablly less sharp (if anyone else has this TV make sure you are outputting at 1080i). I have used my DVD player and Digital Video Essentials to correctly set colors/brightness, etc. So I know what the picture should look like, and I know if what I'm watching is too bright or dark.
> 
> I can't wait until this problem is fixed. It's embarassing to show friends HDTV programming and have them comment on how they can't see details in dark areas.


BW,

Welcome to the forum. got a question. Does the JVC have setting per input and if so how did you go about setting up using your DVD player. If one was to set up there TV/receiver using there DVD player by plugging the DVD player into the component inputs the receiver would use and then calibrating it wouldn't that be calibrating it for that DVD player and not the receiver or is this the proper way to calibrate your TV/Receiver combination. I have always wonder how to do this and thought calibrating it with the DVD player as the source would not result in the correct calibration.

Maybe I am wrong here. Most likely am.. I need to do a calibration with my DVI on my Sony and was wondering how I was going to do it.


----------



## BlackWuken

WeeJavaDude said:


> Does the JVC have setting per input and if so how did you go about setting up using your DVD player.


You can have separate settings for the different types of inputs (component, dvi, etc.) on this TV. I did happen to calibrate the settings using my DVD player using the same inputs that my 811 receiver uses now. As far as I know, a good DVD player (without additional video effects/filters turned on in the player) should be outputting the correct signal so that if you were to calibrate your TV with it, any other device plugged in to those inputs *should* be correct. But maybe only in a perfect world?

I know that different equipment may have minor quirks in how it displays the signal. But at least the method described above should get you pretty damn close to where your TV needs to be. Any additional tweaking for a particular device may be needed, maybe, but it shouldn't be anything major.

Now, that would mean in the case of the 811 receiver, if it did indeed have a slightly dark picture, you could just compensate by turning up the brightness/contrast on your TV. The problem is, from what I'm seeing the picture isn't uniformly dark. It's only dark in the darker areas of the broadcast image. So I can't see a way to compensate using the controls on my TV.

When I said earlier that I had calibrated by TV using Digital Video Essentials, I didn't mean to say that I shouldn't need to change settings at all for every other piece of equipment I decide to attach to my TV. I was just pointing out that I know what the pictures *should* look like, so I can tell that the 811 receiver (at least mine) isn't uniformly dark, it's only dark in dark areas. Hope that makes sense.


----------



## Guest

You can receive cbs via ota in the atlanta area (I do). I do not get a dish cbs-hd feed but who cares, it looks perfect off air.

I too have noted that the 811 doesn't show the dark areas correctly. I recently bought digital dvd essentials and tuned my projector thinking it was the problem the dvd signal is great. The 811 is connected via dvi so I can't be sure that the dvi input is calibrated correctly though it isn't delivering voltages. The brights are fine but the darks are too dark and detail is being lost. Turning up the brightness or gamma on the projector results in blooming whites.

I suspect the 811's output is out of spec. I just hope it can be fixed with software.


----------



## shivane

Does anyone have a problem with their 811 receiver not responding to the UHF remote when an OTA antenna is plugged in to the 8vsb? I tried this, and after trying to view digital OTA channels (after a few minutes), the remote wont work for the receiver. I have to get the IR remote that came with the 301 receiver to do anything on the 811. It gets fixed after i unplug the 8vsb antenna and power off then power on the 811 (using front panel or IR remote). Any feedback? Thanks.


----------



## Bobby94928

shivane said:


> Does anyone have a problem with their 811 receiver not responding to the UHF remote when an OTA antenna is plugged in to the 8vsb? I tried this, and after trying to view digital OTA channels (after a few minutes), the remote wont work for the receiver. I have to get the IR remote that came with the 301 receiver to do anything on the 811. It gets fixed after i unplug the 8vsb antenna and power off then power on the 811 (using front panel or IR remote). Any feedback? Thanks.


I had that happen for the first time yesterday. I use a Sony AV-3000 remote which uses IR only. I locked on a channel and couldn't get the remote to do anything. I then used my 811 remote and had the same thing. It's like the 811 just stopped reading IR or UHF commands. I still had picture and sound on the channel that I was locked on to. I just did the 5 second "hold the power button" on the 811. It rebooted and has been fine since.


----------



## greggg

Right now I have four tv's hooked up to a single dish. I have HD service for locals with Comcast, because antennas don't work by me, and of course E* can't and probably will never be able to get HD locals. I have a 501 hooked up for SD. How would I be able to get an 811 hooked up so I could get E*'s HD package?


----------



## Stranger Monsoon

shivane said:


> Does anyone know if there is an extra charge for an HD version of CBS. I live in atlanta and have subscribed to local atlanta channels, HD channel package and AT100 (the package that is free from 3 months). I thought for sure I should get the CBS HD channel but Dish says it will be an extra $1.50/month assuming i live in a qualifying area.


See posts #334 & #335.

SM


----------



## shivane

Stranger Monsoon said:


> See posts #334 & #335.
> 
> SM


Those posts did not really answer my question, but thanks anyway. In turns out that my area does not allow me to qualify for a CBS HD feed. I think if I were to qaulify they would charge an additional $1.50, which did not make sense, but I don't care now since I don't qualify to begin with.


----------



## BlackWuken

I just got off the phone with Dish Network and the tech I was speaking with said the 'dark' issue on the 811 would be fixed in the next software update. She said the update has already been named (265) so it should be coming out soon. Can't wait to see what other issues it will fix.


----------



## Bobby94928

BlackWuken said:


> I just got off the phone with Dish Network and the tech I was speaking with said the 'dark' issue on the 811 would be fixed in the next software update. She said the update has already been named (265) so it should be coming out soon. Can't wait to see what other issues it will fix.


Hmmmm.... 265, huh! I wonder what happened to 264.....


----------



## Guest

shivane said:


> Does anyone have a problem with their 811 receiver not responding to the UHF remote when an OTA antenna is plugged in to the 8vsb? I tried this, and after trying to view digital OTA channels (after a few minutes), the remote wont work for the receiver. I have to get the IR remote that came with the 301 receiver to do anything on the 811. It gets fixed after i unplug the 8vsb antenna and power off then power on the 811 (using front panel or IR remote). Any feedback? Thanks.


 This happens to me lots of times. I either unplug the power for a while or hold the power button for 7-10 minutes and then it works fine again. 
I'm using an indoor antenna now and trying to get an outdoor one. The Terk TV42 looks pretty neat, wonder if anyone is using it with the 811 and getting good results.


----------



## rvaidyan

unregister said:


> This happens to me lots of times. I either unplug the power for a while or hold the power button for 7-10 minutes and then it works fine again.


You hold the power button down for 7-10 *MINUTES*? Wow, what a great way to integrate HDTV viewing with a workout! :lol:


----------



## Guest

Here is hoping the receiver is fixed by kickoff.


----------



## clapple

Bobby94928 said:


> Hmmmm.... 265, huh! I wonder what happened to 264.....


921 owners got their new software, when do we 811 onwers get ours. I want the promised two day guide!


----------



## five0_4tluv

you guys with 811s do you have an access card in it. i noticed mine does not... also does you hd/sd button work?


----------



## JohnMI

The 811s have internal access cards. The slot is there if Dish decides that they need it in the future (and can enable it via a software update).

My HD/SD button doesn't appear to do anything.

- John...


----------



## Bobby94928

five0_4tluv said:


> you guys with 811s do you have an access card in it. i noticed mine does not... also does you hd/sd button work?


There is no reason for the HD/SD button at all. The 811 has continuous HD and SD output, unlike the 6000. You change the definitions by the input of your TV.


----------



## willy

Is there a giant single list of known 811 issues someone can point me to? Thanks!


----------



## Guest

willy said:


> Is there a giant single list of known 811 issues someone can point me to? Thanks!


http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=4218


----------



## Nick

willy said:


> Is there a giant single list of known 811 issues someone can point me to? Thanks!




<looks around> :scratchin Nope, no giant 811 thread around here!  :hair: :kickbutt:


----------



## willy

--- what I *meant* was- an enumerated list of issues- not a 13 page list of occasional tangents. The second post of the link gpflepson sent was exactly what I was looking for!

Mine's finally a 'comin on Sunday...


----------



## IanF

Willy: is your 811 an upgrade unit coming from DISH or through a retailer? I'm hoping the new SW drop emboldens DISH to release more 811s into the market and ideally one into my family room... 

Have any members received the mythical "Call from DISH" to get off the pre-pre-pre order list?


----------



## willy

Ian,

My 811 is an install from Dish, as an upgrade. Apparently, this depends on local availability with sub-contractors from what I gather- some cannot even buy a unit full price from a local retailer. I guess it depends. 

What the new SW drop about? From reading the threads- seems like there was patch 262 in late december but I havent heard of any patches released since then. Last I hear patch 265 was up-and-coming but no date planned. Anyone heard news on this?


----------



## Bobby94928

willy said:


> Ian,
> 
> My 811 is an install from Dish, as an upgrade. Apparently, this depends on local availability with sub-contractors from what I gather- some cannot even buy a unit full price from a local retailer. I guess it depends.
> 
> What the new SW drop about? From reading the threads- seems like there was patch 262 in late december but I havent heard of any patches released since then. Last I hear patch 265 was up-and-coming but no date planned. Anyone heard news on this?


IIRC, 262 was a disaster and never made it to the global spool. I have 263 now and it's been there since around the end of December. I'm wondering what has become of 264 if they go right to 265. Maybe 264 doesn't do what it should, but why rename it 265 if it never got out there in the first place.


----------



## Guest

Hey guys,

A brief intro and then I'll just register and get it over with.

I am Dan. I live about 15 miles from St. Louis (Fenton to be exact) and I am about fed up with DishNetwork's complete incompetence in Customer Service.

I have been trying to get an 811 since December 15th. I was initially told I would have to call back in January to qualify for an upgrade at $199 from my Dish301 (Dish500 system). I then called back on January 4th to place an order and was put on the mythical "we'll call you" list too. 4-6 weeks is what I was told then.

After waiting two weeks, I thought I'd call back to see if there had been any movement on the supply and if I could get a better lead time for an upgrade - I do not need an install as the only thing I am missing is the damn receiver! That was on about January17 or 18. I was then told that "you are not currently on the pre-order list, did you want to be?" I about flipped at that point. So I was re-added to the pre-order list and again told it would take 4-6 weeks to be "called".

I have begun looking at switching to Direct TV and Charter Cable here in St. Louis area. Charter actually has better pricing if you want to get all the movie chnnels and HDTV options (total Charter package = $79.84/mo. includes HDNet, HDNet Movies, local Fox-DT, local NBC-DT, HBO-HD and Showtime-HD, but would require an extra STB to receive ABC and CBS and you have to rent the HDTV box from Charter. Their package also includes all Starz!, Cinemax, and Encore channels, but no Discovery-HD or ESPN-HD. Dish is much more expensive if you add HDTV to the America's Everything Pak its nearly $100 a month and you get world-class sucking custom service reps that can't find their ass with both hands yet alone find the answers to your questions until you call six or seven times.

As a last ditch effort to secure an 811 before next week's super bowl I re-contacted Dish (again) to ask if they would honor the upgrade offer if I went through a local retailer or installer to get my 811 receiver. I was told yes by first Veronica (CSR#= CDR) and then again by Dave (CSR# = unknown). So I figure I have a better chance to go through a local retailer than waiting for the mythical call back from Dish. I contacted a couple of local companies who both tell me they will have Dish811's next week. So I am really fired up and thinking about forgetting the whole hassle if I can get my 811 sooner than "4-6 weeks" (more like 4-6 days).....then the bombshells drop.

First Tom from one of the local companies (Arnold, MO.) tells me he will call Dish and confirm this indepentently (not once but twice he tells me this) and proceeds to not return my calls over the past three days. Then I talked to Dan (Imperial, MO.) and he tells me that what Dish has told me is 100% UNTRUE - they will not reimburse retailers if they offer the units to existing customers even though they claim to the customers that they will. What is happening in essence is that Dish CSR's are telling people they can get the units from local retailers at the discounted upgrade offer price (which somehow became $149 when I told Veronica I had been a Dish subscriber for 7 years) - they then have the retailer give a unit to the customer to alleviate their backlog and proceed to jerk around the retailers and either deny the reimbursment or delay the payments putting the retailer on the hook for the difference in price ($399 receiver = $250 loss to retailer if I get it for $149 and Dish doesn't pay him back).

Essentially, Dish could not handle the demand and they are trying to use their retailers as a way to alleviate the pressure and rather than being honest with their existing customer base and saying that the units are not available at all to existing Dish subscribers until they fill ALL new customer backlogs, they put us on the mythical "4-6 week list" - if you call and ask to be put on it at least twice, because the first time I guess they thought I was just kidding about it.

Whew...I feel better having vented that noxious gas from myself....

Buyer beware - Dish Network is very hit-or-miss in their offers on this 811 receiver and it takes quite a bit of hassle to get someone to finally spell out to an existing customer what is available to them.

Thanks for reading my pointless rant,
Dan
(St. Louis, Mo.)


----------



## willy

Bobby94928 said:


> IIRC, 262 was a disaster and never made it to the global spool. I have 263 now and it's been there since around the end of December. I'm wondering what has become of 264 if they go right to 265. Maybe 264 doesn't do what it should, but why rename it 265 if it never got out there in the first place.


Probably for revision control. At least in my industry with Hardware Description Language Language code (HDL) we keep tight rev control, and even if a branch has bugs, future branches will build off of it and fix it. Very rarely is a branch completely backed out of. You'd almost literally have to label every line of new/modified code as defective. My .02.


----------



## Bobby94928

willy said:


> Probably for revision control. At least in my industry with Hardware Description Language Language code (HDL) we keep tight rev control, and even if a branch has bugs, future branches will build off of it and fix it. Very rarely is a branch completely backed out of. You'd almost literally have to label every line of new/modified code as defective. My .02.


Now that makes some sense. Thanks Willy.


----------



## willy

811 installed this AM- Fantastic. 

Using a DVI connection to my Panny PT-50LC13, and no dark image whatsoever.


----------



## stickyfingers

My 811 has been up and running for the weekend now - and here's my $.o2...

PQ on HD is as good as I've seen (I own a CRT so I'm viewing over component, as I'm not going to spring for DVI since I don't have an all digital pathway anyhow.)
PQ on SD is fine.
The stretch mode could certainly be better, but it doesn't suck.

That's the good. Now the bad.

I won't run through the whole laundry list of other problems but, I too, lose audio and the like. As a new E* sub, I really can't believe how "low class" the UI is. Compared to D* (including their HD units - I've seen/used the Hughes and the Samsung units) the interface is terrible. The guide (I know it's a noted problem) is marginally functional at best - but beyond that it "feels" like it was developed 5 or 10 years ago. It reminds me of the look of the guide on my first DBS (D*) units.

It is entirely inane that the guide won't stretch to fill a 16:9 screen. It's nice that the provide a few options for filling the screen w/SD material, but makes no sense that they wouldn't include something similiar for the guide. BTW, I set the guide to "partial guide & video window" (or whatever the setting is) because it ticked me off to no end that attempting to see what else is on killed my currently viewed material - well for three days all I've ever seen is the guide w/a little box in the top right that says "please wait"...*what the heck is it waiting for*?

I, as a new sub, picked up an 811 for free by the time it ended up in my house I also had picked up six months of free programming. I write my opinions because, at the end of the day, if I had to pay for the 811 I would be furious. Since it was free and, ultimately the image it produces is very good - I'm happy...it's tough to gripe much about free, but if you're thinking of actually *paying* for an 811 I would certainly recommend going w/D* as their units are simply head and shoulders above the 811.

Brian (waiting patiently for the HDTivo)


----------



## willy

Brian,

For the picture-in-guide problem, where it says "please wait...", let it sit there in the guide for 2-3 minutes, and the picture will then get displayed. Itll then be ok every time you bring the guide up until you next power off the unit. I guess this will be fixed in the next patch.


----------



## Guest

willy said:


> Brian,
> 
> ...let it sit there in the guide for 2-3 minutes, and the picture will then get displayed. Itll then be ok every time you bring the guide up until you next power off the unit.


Doesn't work that way on mine.


----------



## JohnMI

Indeed -- mine also will sit forever and never show any video in the guide window...

Willy -- have you confirmed that yours actually displays a picture after 2-3 minutes on the guide? If so, and since yours is a new install, can you double-check which firmware you have just for grins?

Thanks.

- John...


----------



## stickyfingers

willy said:


> For the picture-in-guide problem, where it says "please wait...", let it sit there in the guide for 2-3 minutes, and the picture will then get displayed. Itll then be ok every time you bring the guide up until you next power off the unit. I guess this will be fixed in the next patch.


Well that did it. I am very careful about burn in (as I have a CRT) and won't leave *anything* on screen for more than a minute or so, but I let it sit for right about 2 minutes and it did finally pull up a picture - and the window now works when I browse to any channel.

[edit] NM, it only lasted for about 30 minutes or so, then it went away. I did tune to an OTA channel, so I dunno if that broke it - but chalk up another "feature" that doesn't work.

Brian (263 on my box I believe)


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## kstevens

jgoggan said:


> Indeed -- mine also will sit forever and never show any video in the guide window...
> 
> Willy -- have you confirmed that yours actually displays a picture after 2-3 minutes on the guide? If so, and since yours is a new install, can you double-check which firmware you have just for grins?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> - John...


I found if you tune into a satelite broadcast, that about 5 minutes later the guide will be up. It seems to take forever if you leave it on the guide.

Ken


----------



## willy

I have LADD for the firmware.- and yes- it does put a pic on the guide after 2-3 minutes. Had the exact same issue on my 301 for a looonggggg time before they fixed it.


----------



## JohnMI

willy said:


> I have LADD for the firmware.- and yes- it does put a pic on the guide after 2-3 minutes. Had the exact same issue on my 301 for a looonggggg time before they fixed it.


Actually, your firmware version will be the one starting with P... So, "P263", for example.

In any case, I'll double-check mine again soon -- I admit that I may not have even tried the video-in-guide stuff in a while...

- John...


----------



## willy

Ah yes, my HW version was LADD-- thought this was where you are going.

My firmware is P265.





LOL just kiddding, gotcha. Its P263.


----------



## fixoman

Bobby94928 said:


> IIRC, 262 was a disaster and never made it to the global spool. I have 263 now and it's been there since around the end of December. I'm wondering what has become of 264 if they go right to 265. Maybe 264 doesn't do what it should, but why rename it 265 if it never got out there in the first place.


Dish rep. told me that the 264 patch would fix all of the guide issues and the 265 at a later date would fix the dark picture issues. (maybe there is light at the end of a dark 811 tunnel)


----------



## willy

fixoman,

Have you tried using DVI or component (not composite) video? This seems to have fixed the issue for many.


----------



## Bobby94928

willy said:


> fixoman,
> 
> Have you tried using DVI or component (not composite) video? This seems to have fixed the issue for many.


If only my 3 year old Mits had DVI...... That's a problem for many of us early adopters.


----------



## Tom in TX

I have a 55" Mits RPTV, and run a 301 for Dish, and use a Samsung set top box for OTA HD (great pictures). I was wondering if I upgrade to an 811 will it give better PQ than the 301 for non HD satellite pictures? I'd love to upgrade to the 811 for the integration of the two streams (bugs aside), but was wondering if it will help PQ at all, as the 301 doesn't look nearly as good as even the OTA non HD pictures. I am a new poster to this site, and hope I am not asking something already answered. I enjoy reading everyones experiences!
Thanks, 
Tom in TX


----------



## clapple

fixoman said:


> Dish rep. told me that the 264 patch would fix all of the guide issues and the 265 at a later date would fix the dark picture issues. (maybe there is light at the end of a dark 811 tunnel)


When, when, when ?

Waiting, waiting, waiting !


----------



## Rosedoc

willy said:


> fixoman,
> 
> Have you tried using DVI or component (not composite) video? This seems to have fixed the issue for many.


Hello!
I am just a newbie here but I thought I would throw in my 2 cents:
Our 811 and Superdish were installed on January 13. Since then, we have experienced most of the problems noted about the 811. However, we do enjoy it and look forward to upcoming software fixes. 
I think I should mention that we have our 811 hooked up to our 56" HDTV via a DVI cable. We do not use the S-Video output. Even so, we experience very dark pictures on HD movies and on many of the standard programming channels. DiscoveryHD and HDNet do not show the darkness that movies do.
So, using the DVI hookup doesn't guarantee that your 811 will be free from the "*******".

Rosedoc


----------



## JohnMI

Bobby94928 said:


> If only my 3 year old Mits had DVI...... That's a problem for many of us early adopters.


You don't have Component either? No big benefit to DVI for your TV -- but you should be able to go Component, right?

- John...


----------



## willy

Bobby94928 said:


> If only my 3 year old Mits had DVI...... That's a problem for many of us early adopters.


You have component inputs though-- right? No DVI and no componenet = no HD.


----------



## stickyfingers

clapple said:


> 921 owners got their new software, when do we 811 onwers get ours. I want the promised two day guide!


I'd take a 1 day guide at this point, and FWIW I simply can't believe that two months (or more?) since it's released there's still no functional guide "window" (for viewing of a program).

Brian


----------



## Crumb_Snatcher

:nono2: I live in Milwaukee, WI and is having a hard time programming the local CBS digital channel into the 811 receiver. Here's the scope. The local CBS digital channel's transmit number is 46 and the broadcast number is 1. Unlike the other local digital channels, CBS's local digital broaddcast channel is different than it's analog. For example, the local digital ABC's transmit number is 34, but the broadcast channel is 12 just like the analog channel. Anyhow, the 811's default use for channel 1 in the program guide is set to the two video inputs in the back of the receiver. When I do a digital scan, I can't lock on the CBS channel. But when I do a manual add, the channel can be locked in with signal strength being in the mid 80s. I am able to label the channel as CBS, but as soon as I exit out of the menu and go back to the screen where all the digital channels are, the cbs channel is no where to be found. I can go back into the program guide and browse to channel 1 and see that it is labeled as CBS, but if I try to watch the signal......it just display video input in the guide info and shows nothing? I called the Dish and was quickly escalated to 3rd level support because the first 2 levels didn't know what I was talking about. Here's what 3rd level told me...channel 1 is not a valid broadcast channel so that is why Dish programmed the 811 to use channel 1 for the 2 video inputs in the back. I have a Zennith OTA HD receiver and I can watch the local CBS digital channel on channel 1 perfectly? Can someone help shed some light on me? The tree stumps at Dish support pretty much said I was SOL.


----------



## Guest

Try this link at Satellite guys

http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=5976


----------



## Crumb_Snatcher

Thanks a bunch GPFlepsen. I will try that fix tonight and see if it works. 

On another note, why is my 811 not able to tune in Dish signals after I switch from local analog channels that I have programed into the guide. I'm forced to unplug the ac power cord to kill power for a few minutes and then plug it back in to get the Dish sat signal. Forgive me if this has been asked before.


----------



## Guest

Crumb_Snatcher said:


> ... why is my 811 not able to tune in Dish signals after I switch from local analog channels that I have programed into the guide. I'm forced to unplug the ac power cord to kill power for a few minutes and then plug it back in to get the Dish sat signal. Forgive me if this has been asked before.


I'd call E* on that one. Doesn't sound like anything I've read about before. Granted some are getting this type of behavior on a random basis but not every time.

Next time try holding the power button in for 5-7 seconds instead of unplugging it. It should work, plus it's a bit easier.


----------



## JohnMI

Crumb_snatcher:
This has come up before. Basically, Dish is telling you the right thing: they aren't "supposed" to use channel 1. Unfortunately though, there are some that do -- even though they aren't "supposed" to. The belief is that some marketing genius probably thought being "channel #1" and/or first in "the list" was beneficial from their standpoint.

So, the BEST solution would be to get those channels to be changed by the affiliate -- to get them to be "proper." Of course, that is unlikely -- so I think people need to stay on Dish about this and get them to change their receiver even though it isn't "proper" for anyone to use channel #1.

Previously, when this came up, there was some mention of Dish maybe doing "Channel #0" or something else to deal with this problem -- but I don't know if that was just wishful thinking or something Dish had actually mentioned at any time.

- John...


----------



## ypsiguy

Babnitoshi said:


> New DISH subscriber here - I switched from Cablevision because I was disgusted with their crappy HD receiver. Got the 811 installed (It took 7 hours but I got a great deal!).
> 
> So far I am very pleased except for one major issue - the picture quality of non-HD channels. So far I think there has been only one mention on this thread of this as MPEG BLOCKING. The only way I can describe the picture is that it looks "pixelized" on the edges and it is worse when the subject or object is moving fast. Example, a newscasters face outline always appears blurred as the little squares transition between colors/shades. A wall for example where the lighting changes does not appear uniform- there are jagged lines where the light intensity transitions. Sorry for the coarse description but I hope someone gets the idea!
> 
> Does anyone else have this experience or is it finally time for me to get that laser eye surgery done??
> 
> BTW- I am using good quality Component Video Cables going to a Toshiba Widescreen HD ready CinemaSeries TV (57HX81).


I have two 36" sets, an RCA and a 36" inch Toshiba 4x3 HD set. I notice the artifact problem much more on Toshiba. ESPN SD actually looks better on the RCA than the Toshiba. I have a suspicion that the Toshiba's higher resolution capability brings overcompression's artifacts to light much quicker. When my Toshiba is fed an uncompressed, CLEAN 480i picture., it is breathtaking. HOWEVER, I had Comcrap digital before and it was much worse than E*. Nat Geo channel on Comcrap was unwatchable. The Motorola box literally destroyed the analog channels, but then what else would one expect from the Digicipher II people?
My humble opinion...if u really wanna SEE it, get it on DVD.


----------



## rmr76

ypsiguy said:


> I have two 36" sets, an RCA and a 36" inch Toshiba 4x3 HD set. I notice the artifact problem much more on Toshiba. ESPN SD actually looks better on the RCA than the Toshiba. I have a suspicion that the Toshiba's higher resolution capability brings overcompression's artifacts to light much quicker. When my Toshiba is fed an uncompressed, CLEAN 480i picture., it is breathtaking. HOWEVER, I had Comcrap digital before and it was much worse than E*. Nat Geo channel on Comcrap was unwatchable. The Motorola box literally destroyed the analog channels, but then what else would one expect from the Digicipher II people?
> My humble opinion...if u really wanna SEE it, get it on DVD.


I'll agree here. I'm still waiting on an 811 (on the call back list), but even with my existing 301 I notice the artifacts on my new 51" Hitachi HDTV. Simply put, the higher quality display just makes the artifacts that much more visible than on my old 27" Sharp. Clean Analog OTA channels & DVD's look great though. Also, I don't know about their HD, but the regular Comcast digital channels in my neighbor's house looked pretty bad too.


----------



## vboyz103

What's the latest firmware for the 811. I check my system information on my 811 and it said software version is PD263 some'n some'n. Is that the latest?

Thanks.


----------



## JohnMI

Yes, P2.63 is the latest version currently.

- John...


----------



## stickyfingers

Am I the only one whose 811 will not reboot by holding the Power button down? I can hold it for 60 seconds, let alone 10 and it will *not* reboot.

Brian


----------



## JohnMI

Mine has started doing that recently. If I can't get it to power up, then I can't seem to reboot it by holding the power down. I've had to unplug it a couple of times instead.

For me, this problem has only been when it was already OFF and then I couldn't turn it on. If it is on and something odd happens, I can always do the hold-for-reboot.

- John...


----------



## delkins

So finally got my 811 installed yesterday. Have one question. I have a remote tv around 12 feet away from the 811 with no receiver. Can I take the RCA outputs on the back of the 811 and get video and sound to my remote tv? Just want to know before I go out and by buy 12ft RCA cables....thanks


----------



## Bobby94928

delkins said:


> So finally got my 811 installed yesterday. Have one question. I have a remote tv around 12 feet away from the 811 with no receiver. Can I take the RCA outputs on the back of the 811 and get video and sound to my remote tv? Just want to know before I go out and by 12ft RCA cables....thanks


Yes you can. The 811 has constant HD from the component and DVi and Constant SD from the S-Video and composite outputs.


----------



## delkins

Bobby94928 said:


> Yes you can. The 811 has constant HD from the component and DVi and Constant SD from the S-Video and composite outputs.


Great! Thank you for the quick reply. Now another question. Same situation in another room except this time I'm dealing with a 510. Can/how I run a line from the 510 to a remote tv with no receiver?.....thanks again.


----------



## Crumb_Snatcher

does the 6000 have this issue too with the 8vsb module installed in it? just curious. 

Damn, last night I lost signal to 119. receiver can't seem to lock on the signal anymore. Called tech support and they couldn't do sh*t. They are sending a tech out on Super Bowl Sunday. What a way to ruin my weekend.


----------



## JohnMI

What a way to ruin the tech's weekend! 

- John...


----------



## C*Tedesco

Got a quick question, can you get the full 1080i through S-video? I didn't think that was possible. I thought the only way you can do that is through Component.


----------



## Bobby94928

C*Tedesco said:


> Got a quick question, can you get the full 1080i through S-video? I didn't think that was possible. I thought the only way you can do that is through Component.


No, the S-Video and composite outputs have 480I only. Component has a choice of 480P, 720P or 1080I.


----------



## peano

Phew! I am new here and have just read this entire thread (albeit quickly). My question is, what is the best deal for the 811 with Superdish for a new subscriber? I have read free, $299 and $399. I can install it myself, so I don't really need free install. Any help is appreciated.


----------



## shivane

I think the free 811 promotion is over, as well as the 3 free months of America's Top 100 with HBO/Cinemax. As far as I know, this promotion expired yesterday (Jan 31, 2003). Now I think you may have to shell out at least $300 for a system with the satellite dish hardware and the 811 receiver. Sorry for the bad news.


----------



## JohnMI

Actually, it is fairly likely the the new Club Dish promo will go into affect within a day or two. At that time, I wouldn't be surprised if the 811 was still available through it for free. But, we'll see. I'll call tomorrow and see what the plan is. I don't believe in making people work on Sunday that don't absolutely have to -- so I won't call them today and ask. Tomorrow is soon enough.  I'll post that I find out -- especially if an 811 deal is still available.

- John...


----------



## peano

Thanks John. I did notice the sponsor of a contest here still shows it on their website for free with a two year commitment.


----------



## JohnMI

Ok -- I called. Plus, it looks like they have updated the web site.

Club Dish has been extended to the end of June, 2004. The plans are pretty much the same -- but there is no 811 deal available through Club Dish any longer -- at least, not for now.

She told me that she thought that most cards already given out could be used, but couldn't confirm that for certain. She said to "have them call and we can see if their cards are still valid." heh. My guess is that they would still work.

In any case, the free DVR510 deal is still there -- but no 811 deal.

It looks like the free 3-months of the movie channels offer is gone too.

- John...


----------



## peano

Sorry, what is Club Dish and which cards are you talking about?


----------



## JohnMI

peano said:


> Sorry, what is Club Dish and which cards are you talking about?


"Club Dish" is a program where existing customers refer new customers to Dish. The new customers get a discount on signing up and the existing customers get a referral credit if their friend decides to sign up.

Until the end of January, you could get a free 811 through Club Dish -- plus around $50 credit back -- plus 3 months free of service w/ movie channels, I believe. However, they have lowered the promo a bit and the 811 and 3 free months no longer seems to be available.

You can still get a DVR510 (plus extra 301s if you need them for additional TVs) in the deal though -- which is probably the best deal to take at this point. You can check out the offerings here.

Each existing customer was sent two Gift Cards a while back -- I expect that two more will go out soon since they've just started the new program (which expires in June). They can request extras too -- up to 20 per year, I believe -- to give to additional friends.

In any case, I have one card left currently. If you are seriously interested in signing up for Dish soon, let me know (send me your address via email or Private Message) and I'll send it right out to you.

Thanks!

- John...


----------



## peano

Thanks very much John. Check your pm.


----------



## chenrikson

Nick said:


> Looks like everyone is posting their 811 comments or questions in many different threads. Some of the same questions are being asked over and over in diverse places. Let's try to pull all the 811 info together into a comprehensive thread so everything pertaining to the Dish 811 HD receiver will be in one place and we won't miss anything.
> 
> This is the place to post 811 user comments, questions, complaints and, yes, bug reports.


Nick -- Great to have all the 811 stuff together -- does the "Official" mean that DISH reads this stuff?

Craig


----------



## willy

Of course not. Some say that E* lurks in these posts. But its not an official place to report prob's to E*.

Some expect a call from Charlie himself if they report that they dont want BingoTV or something.


----------



## JohnMI

willy said:


> Of course not. Some say that E* lurks in these posts. But its not an official place to report prob's to E*.


Actually, that is not entirely true. The DVR-921 forum *is* an "offical place" to report problems to Dish -- but only involving the 921, of course... For now. 

- John...


----------



## Nick

chenrikson said:


> Nick -- Great to have all the 811 stuff together -- does the "Official" mean that DISH reads this stuff?
> 
> Craig


No, not necessarily, but who knows? When the 811 was first offered on discount, orders and installs went through the roof (so to speak  ). Suddenly, multiple 811 threads were all over the place. I thought we needed a single 811 thread to consolidate all the posts for easier reading and tracking. In retrospect, I probably should have titled the thread as "unofficial". Either way, it has served the purpose.

Nick


----------



## chenrikson

Nick -- Seems to me that the 811 discussion has identified 3 or 4 ongoing problems such as picture brightness, channel remapping, etc. While there are indications that each of these problems may be being looked at, it sure would be nice if we could get an "Official" statement. Perhaps E* doesn't want to openly admit to the problems, but it would certainly help the CSR's if they knew what was going on (they generally don't, tho most I have talked to have tried to give me correct info - except the guy who said the remapping problem was because the OTA digital stations weren't broadcasting HD 24/7 :nono2: )

Any way we can send a "formal" request to E* for specific information re. the 811??

CRaig


----------



## willy

1. brightness on S-vid & composite
2. ota mapping
3. 720p output throwing out SD, not HD
4. Guide prob's

Would be real nice to at least know through an official channel that E* knows about each of them and is working on em... some are rumored to be in the next 2 patches (ota mapping & guide stuff). Be nice to get a definititive list back from them.


----------



## Crumb_Snatcher

CRaig,

I second you on that! If the 921 can have an official Dish Rep in that forum as their point of contact, then there needs to be one for the 811 customers as well. Talking to the CSR's at Dish is like talking to a brick wall. We need a form of communication with Dish regarding these serious problems with the 811 receivers. I'm barely into my first couple weeks of being a Dish customer and I'm already frustrated with the customer service. If this is the case that I can't watch my local CBS affiliate on channel 1.1 on the 811 receiver then, I want my money back and for Dish to come pick up their stupid equipment. The local CBS affiliate is pointing fingers at Dish and Dish is pointing their finger back at the CBS Affiliate. I've heard both side saying that the other is wrong in this entire dilemma. And while all this finger pointing about the problems with channel 1.1 goes on, WE THE CONSUMERS are the ones who pay the price and are screwed. DISH, just send down a god damn software fix to resolve this channel 1.1 remapping issue and all the other issues associated with the 811. Is that TOO HARD TO ASK? I don't ever hear Direct Tv customers complaining about their Sony, Zenith, LG or Samsung receivers? Maybe it's time Dish outsource their receiver manufacturing as well.


----------



## stickyfingers

Crumb...E* customer service really is fairly terrible, I'm with you on that one. I imagine 811 owners have become the orphaned sons of E* while all their engineering work goes into the 921. One product is being given away, and the other is going for a grand. I know some folks here think Tivo will stumble as E* did w/the 921 - but given their comparative track records I expect Tivo (and D*) to knock it out of the park w/the HD Tivo. Therefore, getting the 921 unwrinkled is of paramount importance.

I don't expect the 811 to perform acceptably until the 921 kinks are shaken out - which means I expect to be waiting awhile.

I *don't* think that's *reasonable* but it is what I expect.

Brian


----------



## JohnMI

Crumb_Snatcher said:


> If this is the case that I can't watch my local CBS affiliate on channel 1.1 on the 811 receiver then, I want my money back and for Dish to come pick up their stupid equipment. The local CBS affiliate is pointing fingers at Dish and Dish is pointing their finger back at the CBS Affiliate. I've heard both side saying that the other is wrong in this entire dilemma.


While I see your frustration -- and tend to agree with you -- it should be said that, to be fair to Dish, the "channel 1" problem IS the fault of CBS. THEY ARE DOING IT WRONG. Now, that being said, Dish made some design decisions that could have easily went a different way to handle places "doing it wrong." And, since everyone knows that it is very unlikely for CBS (or others doing it wrong) to change, I agree that Dish should make changes on their side so that we can watch the channels of those "doing it wrong."

But, again, CBS is going against the specifications. The fact that it appears that only Dish has made a device that forces one to stick to those specifications doesn't change the fact that CBS is going it wrong -- but it does seem to indicate that Dish will need to change to deal with CBS's mistake...

- John...


----------



## Guest

I'm new here, so Hi all. I'm close to finishing up my home theater room and started researching how I'm going to get HD signals to my screen. I currently have three 301's and one DVR510. My plan was to swap out a 301 and put in an 811 (since the 921 option went down in flames). Dish told me about the $199 deal and that they could install it this Saturday. Then came the truth after a short stint on hold...."sorry about the misinformation, but I can only put you on a 4-6 week waiting list." I put myself on the list, but with no commitment whatsoever. I'm hoping to find a better option before the 4-6 week ETA, especially after reading about all the problems people are having with them. I want to do it right as I'm going to be using a DLP front projector with a 119" screen....I don't want to louse it all up by getting a problematic HD receiver that displays a sub-par picture. Just thought I would share. Any ideas would be appreciated, but I'm stuck with Dish for many more months.


----------



## Guest

Rick said:


> I'm new here, so Hi all. I'm close to finishing up my home theater room and started researching how I'm going to get HD signals to my screen. I currently have three 301's and one DVR510. My plan was to swap out a 301 and put in an 811 (since the 921 option went down in flames). Dish told me about the $199 deal and that they could install it this Saturday. Then came the truth after a short stint on hold...."sorry about the misinformation, but I can only put you on a 4-6 week waiting list." I put myself on the list, but with no commitment whatsoever. I'm hoping to find a better option before the 4-6 week ETA, especially after reading about all the problems people are having with them. I want to do it right as I'm going to be using a DLP front projector with a 119" screen....I don't want to louse it all up by getting a problematic HD receiver that displays a sub-par picture. Just thought I would share. Any ideas would be appreciated, but I'm stuck with Dish for many more months.


The 811 picture is fine with the component outputs


----------



## willy

Rick said:


> I'm new here, so Hi all. I'm close to finishing up my home theater room and started researching how I'm going to get HD signals to my screen. I currently have three 301's and one DVR510. My plan was to swap out a 301 and put in an 811 (since the 921 option went down in flames). Dish told me about the $199 deal and that they could install it this Saturday. Then came the truth after a short stint on hold...."sorry about the misinformation, but I can only put you on a 4-6 week waiting list." I put myself on the list, but with no commitment whatsoever. I'm hoping to find a better option before the 4-6 week ETA, especially after reading about all the problems people are having with them. I want to do it right as I'm going to be using a DLP front projector with a 119" screen....I don't want to louse it all up by getting a problematic HD receiver that displays a sub-par picture. Just thought I would share. Any ideas would be appreciated, but I'm stuck with Dish for many more months.


Im using the DVI output and it looks fantastic. For the most part, IMO, the existing bugs are more minor irritants than full-blown showstoppers. After all the negative press on the 811 in this forum, I was expecting to go through hell day-to-day with mine- but Ive had it for 2 weeks and am very happy with it. Hope you get one soon!


----------



## JohnMI

Unreg said:


> The 811 picture is fine with the component outputs


And the DVI. Since he has a DLP projector, he will likely get a benefit from using the DVI and therefore should use it.

I agree that most of the bugs with the 811 are not show-stoppers. You should be fine with one, IMO.

- John...


----------



## Crumb_Snatcher

Here's a posting from the Milwaukee HDTV forum...WDJT Channel "58 has done nothing wrong.. as for them supposing to be mapped to "their analog channel number", you fail to mention that their analog channel number will be released once all frequencies above channel 55 are reclaimed for other uses later this decade. Channel 58 won't be an option within the decade. So they decided to move elsewhere... Now if you had a choice to move, anywhere to move, where would it be? Right at the top? Of course. Mark my words.. over the next 20 years you will likely see quite a few channels across the country pop up on channel 1, and why wouldn't they? It's right there..

The bottom line is that there is nothing 58 is doing that is out of compliance... nothing that is out of compliance that they can bring back into compliance... had Dish made a 100% ATSC compliant box, you wouldn't have a problem. So who is at fault? The company who is following the letter to the T or the one who shipped out a box that doesn't meet standards that have been around for the last 8 years? The truth is that had Dish shipped out a box that worked, your thoughts on 1.1 would be entirely different. That right there should tell you something. End of story.

P.S. it isn't a Dish problem.. it is an 811 problem. The 5000, 6000, and PVR921 all receive 1.1 without any problems... it is a non-compliance issue with the 811.... If you really want to keep Dish, then buy a used 6000 or upgrade to the PVR921. All other Dish HD STBs work fine with this except for the 811...."

To read the rest of the comments about this debate, check out http://www.milwaukeehdtv.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3044


----------



## Crumb_Snatcher

Problem is, Dish CSR's and supporters from this forum are pointing the finger & blame on the local CBS affiliate, but people from the Milwaukee HDTV forum is saying otherwise. I don't know who to believe. In the end, we the consumer are the ones who ultimately are screwed in this mess with channel 1.1. The fact that other dish receivers can tune in channel 1.1 in Milwaukee leads me to believe that it simple matter of Dish issuing a new software update that will allow us to choose what we want Channel 1.1 to display, the useless video inputs on the back or the local CBS affiliate. Some are saying that I should have done my research prior to signing with Dish, but how do you research something that you didn't even know existed? I really hope enough people complain about this mess so Dish can issue a new software update. I didn't sign up with Dish only to be told I need a 2nd OT HD receiver just to watch my local CBA affiliate! WTF! It was under my impression that the 811 could do double duty and that was the main driving force behind my decision to go with Dish, besides it was free too. Maybe I should have gone with Direct Tv because none of their receivers seeem to have this stupid issue with channel 1.1.

Can I still get a refund from Dish or cancel my subscription? I'm only 3 weeks into my contract? Can someone provide feed back on cancelling contracts?


----------



## Nick

> ...it isn't a Dish problem.. it is an 811 problem.


Is this something that can be addressed in the software?


----------



## Crumb_Snatcher

Aside from this Channel 1.1 issue, I think the 811 is a pretty nice receiver. Works beautifully connected via DVI to my Hitachi 50v500. Hell, it even matches the silver on the 50v500 and my Toshiba SD5700 dvd player. The Ms. Hawaiann Tropics Pageant looked pretty nice I might add. Why is it so hard for Dish to issue software patches to fix what seems like such simple issues? I guess they would rather piss off customers and lose potential customers as well.


----------



## stickyfingers

Crumb_Snatcher said:


> ...Why is it so hard for Dish to issue software patches to fix what seems like such simple issues? I guess they would rather piss off customers and lose potential customers as well.


Again, I think they almost surely have the VAST majority of their engineers working on the 921 w/very few resources allocated to the 811. There's a whole boatload of 811 issues that have been around since the inception of the 811 which haven't sniffed being addressed.

Brian


----------



## JohnMI

Crumb_Snatcher said:


> Here's a posting from the Milwaukee HDTV forum...WDJT Channel "58 has done nothing wrong.. as for them supposing to be mapped to "their analog channel number", you fail to mention that their analog channel number will be released once all frequencies above channel 55 are reclaimed for other uses later this decade. Channel 58 won't be an option within the decade. So they decided to move elsewhere...


...


> The bottom line is that there is nothing 58 is doing that is out of compliance... nothing that is out of compliance that they can bring back into compliance...


Well, I think this guy is just wrong. I went to tell him over there, but their forum system requires moderator approval -- so I'm waiting...

Now, I might be wrong -- I'm certainly no expert on this -- but here is what I am going by...

At atsc.org, in their "standards" section, is *"ATSC Recommended Practice A/69: Program and System Information Protocol Implementation Guidelines for Broadcasters"*. In that document, on page 63 (Section 1.1.1, "Channel Numbers"), it states:

"When PSIP is used for terrestrial broadcast, stations must take care in the assignment of major and minor channel numbers to avoid conflicts. For example, the PSIP standard *requires that for the U.S. and its possessions, a terrestrial broadcaster with an existing NTSC license must use a major channel number for digital service that corresponds to the NTSC RF channel number in present use for the analog signal. [...] For terrestrial broadcast, the major channel number is limited to the range 2 to 99 for ATSC digital television or audio services."

That seems pretty straightforward to me. Not only does it say that they should be using their analog number -- but it clearly states that the valid range for digital channel numbers is 2 to 99. 1 is not in 2-99. 

Now, I am not familiar with his statement about 58 going away -- so maybe there is more to it. But, again, the ATSC seems pretty clear on the issue.




had Dish made a 100% ATSC compliant box, you wouldn't have a problem.

Click to expand...

I'm still not convinced that it isn't 100% ATSC compliant since the standard says 2-99. Therefore, they should be able to do whatever they want with the non-assignable "channel 1" and still be 100% ATSC compliant.

That being said, I still hope Dish changes their hardware to work with the stubborn stations out there.




So who is at fault? The company who is following the letter to the T

Click to expand...

The suggestion that channel 58 is "following the letter to the T" is just absolutely ridiculous. They aren't -- at least, not from my reading of the standards at ATSC.




P.S. it isn't a Dish problem.. it is an 811 problem. The 5000, 6000, and PVR921 all receive 1.1 without any problems...

Click to expand...

Anyone know if that is true? Does the 921 not use channel 1 in the same way as the 811?

- John...

P.S. Feel free to post my reply over there if I don't get access soon myself.*


----------



## Guest

John, that is exactly what I was going to say. Thanks for saving me the typing.

I think the guy (borghe) spouting off with great authority that "58 has done nothing wrong.. " will have nothing doing with seeing the error in his view and Ch 58's ways.

I'm waiting too to get access to that forum.
....................................................................................................

Reference Doc A69 http://www.atsc.org/standards/a_69.pdf

Page 63



> 1.1.1 Channel Numbers
> 
> When PSIP is used for terrestrial broadcast, stations must take care in the assignment of major and minor channel numbers to avoid conflicts. For example, the PSIP standard requires that for the U.S. and its possessions, a terrestrial broadcaster with an existing NTSC license must use a major channel number for digital services that corresponds to the NTSC RF channel number in present use for the analog signal. For cable, these restrictions are technically unnecessary as the cable operator can insure that no duplicate numbers exist. *For terrestrial broadcast, the major channel number is limited to the range 2 to 99 for ATSC digital television or audio services*. For cable, major channel numbers can range from 1 to 999. The technical capability exists to communicate the two-part number to a cable-ready digital TV.


----------



## JohnMI

I just got access -- I'm going to go reply with most of what I did here...

- John...


----------



## Crumb_Snatcher

JGoggan,

I posted your comments over there....let's see what the response is..


----------



## JohnMI

Crumb -- please delete your message there quoting my reply -- I was posting almost the same thing there at the same time -- and would rather discuss it directly with him instead of "so-and-so-over-there says..." 

Thanks!

- John...


----------



## Crumb_Snatcher

done deal John.


----------



## htpc_man

Any one having problems programming the 811 remotes AUX device for Denon AVR's?


----------



## chenrikson

htpc_man said:


> Any one having problems programming the 811 remotes AUX device for Denon AVR's?


I don't think they have many Denon codes. I can't get anything for my AVR-1010- the search didn't come up with a code on the first 300 tries - I gave up. I suggest you get a universal IR control that will run it all - the 811 does respond to IR codes just fine. Universal Remote Control has some fine units, as does Radio Shack.

Craig


----------



## Guest

Crumb_Snatcher said:


> To read the rest of the comments about this debate, check out http://www.milwaukeehdtv.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3044


That thread should put to rest the blame game between 1.1 mappers and Dish. Would it take a letter from the FCC to get non-compliant stations to change?


----------



## JohnMI

Indeed -- I think I'm done in that thread. He refuses to listen -- and mainly likes to try to make his argument by manipulating the phrases "standards" and "recommend guidelines." He just "doesn't get it."

In any case... I actually wasn't sure before -- but that thread forced me to do the research and now I am absolutely convinced that any channel in the US broadcasting on Digital Channel 1 is in direct violation of the ATSC's standard. Milwaukee is wrong, Chicago is wrong, and anyone else doing it is wrong. It is unacceptable.

That being said, I hope Dish changes their 811 anyhow, of course.

And, all that being said, I'm not sure what to do to make the broadcasters change. I have no idea if the FCC would do anything. I'm not sure how the ATSC's standards are tied to FCC usage of the channels and such. It is possible that the FCC sees everything from the ATSC as "guidelines" even if it is a standard. Then again, maybe they do care -- and someone will finally do something about it.

I actually sent an email to the ATSC asking about it -- we'll see if they reply. I'll let you know what they say if they do, of course.

- John...


----------



## herni

Does anyone have their 811 connected in a two dish setup? I have a Dish500 with DishPRO and a second dish (don't know the name of it) connected to my 811. Two questions: Why do I need two dishes? What is the purpose of the second dish?

And, could this be the reason why I often get a "check switch" error message?


----------



## JohnMI

What sort of subscription do you have? You'd need the second dish for various possible options: international channels, possibly locals, possibly HD, and so on.

- John...


----------



## Nick

Some HD channels are still on 61.5, although they may be going away -- if permanently, we don't know yet. I ordered my 2nd dish just before HD channels on 61.5 were mirrored to 110, making it (and the cost) unnecessary. Be nice if the left hand knew what the right hand is doing.


----------



## shivane

Is anyone having problems with their guide displaying the correct information? This is mostly noticeable in the HD channels (mid 9400s). The programming info from other channels is showing up on wrong channels. (i.e. "Die Another Day" on DiscoveryHD, and so on). I first noticed this Friday, Feb 6.


----------



## stickyfingers

My guide displays so little information I don't think it can be wrong. On my HD channels I often have *only* the current event info listed - nothing beyond that.

Brian


----------



## DaveO

herni said:


> Does anyone have their 811 connected in a two dish setup? I have a Dish500 with DishPRO and a second dish (don't know the name of it) connected to my 811. Two questions: Why do I need two dishes? What is the purpose of the second dish?
> 
> And, could this be the reason why I often get a "check switch" error message?


Maybe I can answer one, the second.

When first installed, my 811 was only hooked up to a DP twin on a Dish 500. I had no check switch problems.

I installed a second dish to pick up 61.5 for CBS-HD. Since installing it, I have had to check switch several times. It happens if I go too fast moving through the guide changing channels. I now move slower and the problem seems to have gone away.

Dave


----------



## JohnMI

With my 811, connected to only a DishPro Twin, I use to commonly have to do the Check Switch. So, it isn't (or, at least, wasn't) just an extra dish problem. However, since the most recent firmware, I haven't had to do a Check Switch even once. Could be coincidence, could be something else... 

- John...


----------



## kstevens

Lately, after the 811 has been on for a while, I've been getting up to 9 hours on the guide. Anyone else notice this?


Ken


----------



## GRev

shivane said:


> Is anyone having problems with their guide displaying the correct information? This is mostly noticeable in the HD channels (mid 9400s). The programming info from other channels is showing up on wrong channels. (i.e. "Die Another Day" on DiscoveryHD, and so on). I first noticed this Friday, Feb 6.


I'm having the exact same problem with my 811. I can't remember where I saw it, but this is a known problem with the 811. Hopefully it will be fixed because its frustrating, especially since I'm a new DISH customer and I never had any problems like this with D*.


----------



## Guest

The guide and Browse feature have been screwed up pretty bad lately. It doesn't bother me too much, but recently I have been locked out of channels because they show as PPV, one for a rediculous $399!!! It's not just an issue of pulling the wrong info for another channel, it's manufacturing information and locking me out of regular channels. Friday has been the worse.


----------



## stickyfingers

gpflepsen said:


> The guide and Browse feature have been screwed up pretty bad lately. It doesn't bother me too much, but recently I have been locked out of channels because they show as PPV...


Looking at your captures I noticed which channel it is...Charlie's just trying to piss Rupert off I'm sure...  I bet CNN was fine eh..? 

Brian


----------



## luckycat

clapple said:


> Some of these postings leave me some what confused, as to what should be working, and which problems are just waiting for new software.
> 
> 1. With my 811 connected to my AV receiver, by optical cable, I can not get any sound except when I selected "PCM Only"; and that is not surround sound. If I select either "Dolby Digital: or "Dolby Digital/PCM" all I get is a constant clicking noise.
> 
> 2. I thought there was supposed to be a 48 hour On Screen Guide? I'm lucky to get 2 hours. It's worse than the 6000.
> 
> Does anyone else have these problems; or have these working properly? I am willing to wait for software upgrades; but if the receiver is defective, I want tp replace it.


I have the same problem with my 811. If I select anything other than PCM Only I just get clicks/chirps, although the receiver does think that it is getting a Dolby Digital signal. I wonder if this is a hardware problem or software problem that Dish knows about. I'd hate to get a replacement unit only to have the same problem if it is a known software issue.

It is unbelievable that Dish would be selling a product that doesn't achieve the stated functional specifications.


----------



## stickyfingers

luckycat said:


> It is unbelievable that Dish would be selling a product that doesn't achieve the stated functional specifications.


Which is why I maintain the 811 is fine when it's thrown in as part of a package (for free) but folks who paid for it have a right to be angry.

Brian


----------



## Guest

stickyfingers said:


> Looking at your captures I noticed which channel it is...Charlie's just trying to piss Rupert off I'm sure...  I bet CNN was fine eh..?
> 
> Brian


Actually it was in the HD tier of channels too.


----------



## KenO

kstevens said:


> Lately, after the 811 has been on for a while, I've been getting up to 9 hours on the guide. Anyone else notice this?
> 
> Ken


Yes! I'm getting up to 12 hours of guide information now on the 811. This was my only gripe about the 811, and now they took that away from me. Each day it expands for a longer period of time. No dark screen, no audio problems (optical works great!), no switch problems. Damn, I have to be able to complain about something with the 811.


----------



## lesmoss

I sent Dish an email reporting both the Dolby and Check Switch problems. The reply was fairly generic, but it seemed to indicate that they were aware of both problems and that they would be fixed in a future software update. If they are not fixed in the next update, please (everyone) call/write to report the problems.

BTW, the PCM only setting does supply a very good Dolbly pro-logic surround signal, so there is very little lost if your receiver supports pro-logic. Pretty impressive that a "free" box can synthesize pro-logic from the 5 channel original.



luckycat said:


> I have the same problem with my 811. If I select anything other than PCM Only I just get clicks/chirps, although the receiver does think that it is getting a Dolby Digital signal. I wonder if this is a hardware problem or software problem that Dish knows about.


----------



## kstevens

lesmoss said:


> I sent Dish an email reporting both the Dolby and Check Switch problems. The reply was fairly generic, but it seemed to indicate that they were aware of both problems and that they would be fixed in a future software update. If they are not fixed in the next update, please (everyone) call/write to report the problems.
> 
> BTW, the PCM only setting does supply a very good Dolbly pro-logic surround signal, so there is very little lost if your receiver supports pro-logic. Pretty impressive that a "free" box can synthesize pro-logic from the 5 channel original.


It's been so long since they've done a software update, I forgot what they looked like.......


----------



## chenrikson

lesmoss said:


> I sent Dish an email reporting both the Dolby and Check Switch problems.
> 
> I don't recall seeing an address to report to them? Is this just me?. In any case what is the email?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Craig


----------



## JohnMI

jgoggan said:


> I actually sent an email to the ATSC asking about it -- we'll see if they reply. I'll let you know what they say if they do, of course.


Just to follow up on this -- and to assure us all that we were right...  I got an email back from ATSC today. I had written and asked them about whether or not using Channel 1 was proper (along with my opinion from reading their documents that it absolutely was not proper) and, if it was not proper, if anything could be done about it (i.e. forcing broadcasters to correct their error). Here is what they said:

*"Thanks for your note. You are correct with regard to Channel 1. It is
absolutely contrary to the mandatory requirements in PSIP for the U.S. per
A/65B. No broadcaster that uses Channel 1 should expect a receiver to tune
it. However, as A/65 is a voluntary standard, there is no enforcement beyond
those willing to do the right thing.

There is, as you may know, an effort to have the FCC write A/65 compliance
into the Rules. If that happens, such problems could be addressed. For now,
however, beyond being disappointed with the Channel 1 situation, there is
not much that can be done about it."*

So, we were correct -- those are "mandatory requirements" for the US in A/65B. They shouldn't be using Channel 1 -- and shouldn't be expecting any US receiver to tune in Channel 1. So, we are indeed correct.

The problem is that there is nothing backing those requirements -- no enforcement is possible at this point. Which, just seems crazy to me. The FCC shouldn't have been licensing digital channels at all if such compliance requirements were not written into the rules to begin with. Hopefully, the effort to have A/65 written into the rules will work out...

Just wanted to pass that along. I think I'll let it go for now on the Channel58 forums -- since I'm not sure repeating that we were right would do any good with the main guy arguing against us. He just ignores it anyhow and would go "see? It's a 'voluntary' standard, so they don't really have to do it." 

- John...


----------



## Guest

John, I'd like to read what the administrator of the Milwaukee forum has to say now. If you recall, his stance was that Dish was screwed up and Ch 58 was an angel. Actually, a new thread should be started with the correct information  "stir the pot"


----------



## JohnMI

Ok -- I replied over there... heh.

- John...


----------



## Crumb_Snatcher

JGoggan & JPFlepson,

You guys rock!!! That's exactly the kind of hard evidence and correct interpretation of the ATSC documents that I was looking for. I didn't like the fact that people in that Milwaukee forum were making rash accusations and misinterpretating the ATSC documents. Essentially they were sticking up for CBS 58 because *"58 has been one of a few leaders in this market for HDTV. They were one of the few stations who actually had their signal up on May 1, 2002. They have been an active member on these boards and provided communication on happenings without any obligation to do so. They not only provide an HD signal but, to the chagrin of some, but also provide extended services in the form of two additional channels that may not be available to some otherwise. And to mention it again, there level of communication within this community has been exemplary, matched by only a few others from various stations." * Just because 58 was one of the first stations to broadcast in HD in the Milwaukee area still doesn't give them any permission or rights to broadcast on channel 1.1. borghe's stance on the issue is clouded by his misinterpretation of the ATSC documents and his personal favortism for CBS 58. :nono2:

I've learned a great deal from both your insightful interpretation of the ATSC documents. :goodjob: Now I can put to rest this whole debate about who is at fault with the Channel 1.1. It's unfortunate that the FCC doesn't regulate or police this kind of practice by broadcasters nationwide. It's the self-fish broadcasters whose whole intentions are to be channel 1 on the program guide that make it harder for a minority of people, who own receivers that can't tune channel 1, to watch the FREE HD OTA programming that is available. To top it off, the ignorant majority of people who stand by those broadcasters side in pointing the finger back at the manufacturers of the receivers. :nono2: I could only hope that the FCC will soon enforce the ATSC rules on those who choose to broadcast on channel 1.1 because the broadcasters certainly aren't going to budge anytime soon.


----------



## lesmoss

chenriksonI don't recall seeing an address to report to them? Is this just me?. In any case what is the email?
[/QUOTE said:


> I probably sent it via a web form, but the reply came from [email protected]


----------



## JohnMI

Crumb_Snatcher said:


> JGoggan & JPFlepson,
> 
> You guys rock!!! That's exactly the kind of hard evidence and correct interpretation of the ATSC documents that I was looking for.


Sounds good. Now let's just let them sit. I'm trying to avoid getting them all worked up again. I'd much rather some calm-headed Channel58 guy go in there, read the thread, and realize that maybe they should look into changing. That is much more likely to happen than if it is just a shouting match -- even if we ARE obviously right.

So, hopefully, it'll work out for you and others in that area. Note that I can't get an OTA HD signal from any network anywhere around me -- on ANY channel -- so I'm just a bystander arguing for what is "right" even though it doesn't even affect me. heh.

- John...


----------



## Guest

I think it's important to note that even though Dish's 811 isn't really at fault for the problems with tuning 1.1-.2, the ATSC standards do allow cable systems to utilize channel 1 on their system. But I think the likelihood of a cable system utilizing 8VSB AND channel 1 are very remote. The 811 should tune analog cable with no problems.

The whole point of bringing in rouge stations like CBS-DT58 is to lessen the confusion and frustrations caused someone gets a piece of equipment that doesn't work, because of their (58's) actions. How many people are faulting the 811 for utilizing Ch1 for rear input mapping? This whole debacle would not be present if 1 hadn't been used incorrectly.


----------



## joeydee

It has been awhile since I've read anything on the software correction of the aspect ration for 4X3 screens that are high def capable. Some were posting their frustrations that they could not fill the screen with SD broadcasts. The 811 was locking into wide screen with grey bars. Dish Network was supposed to correct this issue, have they? Appreciate any info, thanks.


----------



## Guest

I don't see how the 811 can be forced to output a 4x3 HD signal. HD by definition is 16x9. What you need is the TV to zoom or stretch the HD feed vertically. The only workaround would be to use the S-Video or Composite while watching SD programming.


----------



## stickyfingers

In case anyone hits this thread w/out reading the TC summary - the next 811 update is due out at the *END* of March. It's just inane that E* has had the product out for 3 months now and still have so many core issues that don't work. All the engineers are furiously working to get the 921 fixed (even though there's only 100 "in the wild") while giving hardly a rat's @$$ about the 811 subs.

Brian


----------



## Guest

I thought they said end of February.


----------



## stickyfingers

gpflepsen said:


> I thought they said end of February.


He initially said Feb for an 811 guide issue, then said Feb for 921, then two or three times referred to "end of March" for the 811. I think he got the 811 date mixed up w/the 921 that first time.

Brian


----------



## willy

I PVR'd it and just replayed it- clearly said TWO updates for the 811 -end of feb, and end of march. Fine with me.

921 had a patch end of next week, end of the month, march- obviously more patches for the 921 as its far more buggy.


----------



## Crumb_Snatcher

what are the 2 updates for the 811 in Feb and March going to fix?


----------



## willy

They seemed to say that the main fix in Feb was the guide, and the March for dark image issues on s-vid/composite outputs. It sounded like other things would be included in each- but these are the main points they replied on.


----------



## Crumb_Snatcher

who or where can we email complaints and issues regarding the 811 receiver to? I hate calling customer service. It would be nice if Dish would address the issue surrounding the 811's inability to tune in channel 1.1, 1.2


----------



## Crumb_Snatcher

Hope this doesn't offend anyone, but the last 2 times I spoke with the CSR's at level 1&2 almost seemed like Dish had outsourced their customer support to India or some foreign country. CSR's English wasn't very good or easy to understand.


----------



## willy

Crumb, I thought we settled on the fact that the 811 wasnt doing anything wrong re: channel 1.1?

As far as India goes- LOTS of companies are outsourcing to India. Labor is cheap (25% of us salaries). Im in the chip design industry and we are seeing LOTS of design centers being closed in the US and moving to India. Same with our customers and our competitors. And now lots of customer support centers for companies like Dell, MS, are moving to India. Becoming less of an isolated case as time goes on.


----------



## JohnMI

willy said:


> Crumb, I thought we settled on the fact that the 811 wasnt doing anything wrong re: channel 1.1?


We do agree -- but still want Dish to change it. It will be easier for Dish to change it than to fight the stubborn broadcasters.

So, we don't BLAME Dish for the Channel 1 issues -- but we hope that they will decide it best to allow the tuning of Channel 1 instead of using it for alternate inputs. For the sake of the customer...

- John...


----------



## stickyfingers

Crumb_Snatcher said:


> Hope this doesn't offend anyone, but the last 2 times I spoke with the CSR's at level 1&2 almost seemed like Dish had outsourced their customer support to India or some foreign country. CSR's English wasn't very good or easy to understand.


I haven't seen anything addressing that specifically, but I'd agree CS is oversears now. I had the same problem, and had to explain to a CSR the other day that basketball is played by *two* teams.

Brian


----------



## willy

stickyfingers said:


> I haven't seen anything addressing that specifically, but I'd agree CS is oversears now. I had the same problem, and had to explain to a CSR the other day that basketball is played by *two* teams.
> 
> Brian


Ask 'em about cricket and you'll get an earful.


----------



## Crumb_Snatcher

Willy---I know 811 is ATSC compliant eventhough it can't tune channel 1.1. I know that it is the fault of the broadcasters who choose to broadcast on channel 1.1 eventhough it is against ATSC standards as pointed out in this forum...
http://www.milwaukeehdtv.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3044
Dish needs to realize that the ATSC or FCC are not policing or taking action on any of the broadcasters who chooses to broadcast on channel 1.1 and at the same time, take it upon themselves to offer a solution that will enable 811 owners who live in those markets the ability to watch channel 1.1. The broadcasters certainly aren't budging on the issue. Their whole intentions are for marketing reason.....want to be the channel 1 on the program guide. It's stupid and leaves the owners of 811 receivers and other receivers who can't tune channel 1.1 SOL! The reason I want Dish to offer a software patch for this is because other dish HD receivers can tune channel 1.1 without any issues. I'm sure a simple patch can be written so that the viewer can choose to use channel 1 for the inputs on the back or use it to view the channel 1 OTA HD signal. Is that too much to ask? I know Milwaukee customers aren't the only ones SOL on this matter.....Chicago and numerous other cities have the same problem.


----------



## Crumb_Snatcher

well said JGoggan....for the sake of the of the customers, Dish needs to take this matter into their own hands and do something about it. 

Stickyfingers....that's funny as hell that you had to explain that to a CSR.


----------



## garypen

willy said:


> Crumb, I thought we settled on the fact that the 811 wasnt doing anything wrong re: channel 1.1?
> 
> As far as India goes- LOTS of companies are outsourcing to India. Labor is cheap (25% of us salaries). Im in the chip design industry and we are seeing LOTS of design centers being closed in the US and moving to India. Same with our customers and our competitors. And now lots of customer support centers for companies like Dell, MS, are moving to India. Becoming less of an isolated case as time goes on.


Hopefully, the next administration will do something about this traitorous BS. It's tragic, and absolutely horrible for the future of our economy and the strength of our nation.

OTOH, I seem to be getting call centers in the US, the few times I've called. But, they've been kinda stupid, so it's a wash.


----------



## Crumb_Snatcher

This is off the topic, but I used to work for GE Medical Systems and the IT facility that I worked at must have consisted 95% middle eastern decent contractors. GEMS supposively has the world's largest IT helpdesk somewhere in India. Yes, this is bad for our economy. I remember the employees of GEMS would intentionally call our facility looking for help because they couldn't understand the people at the regular helpdesk. This is a practice that is ultimately hurting the IT industry and economy.


----------



## Nick

:backtotop

Hoping to get this 811 thread back on topic, additional comments and concerns about outsourcing American jobs to India can be made in this existing INDIA thread.


----------



## Guest

On the issue of 1.1 mapping...

It seems the good moderators at the Milwaukee forums deem the issue exhausted and have put in a final word and closed the thread. CH 58 must be an advertising supporter. 



> THIS WILL BE THE LAST POST ON THIS THREAD AS I THINK IT EXHAUSTED.
> 
> Nothing is going to change at this time as the PSIP rules are not enforceable and the OWNERSHIP of channel 58 WDJT has made the decision to use the remap to channel 1. As far as the DISH saga goes, hopefully they will offer a software upgrade to those affected.
> 
> Anyhow I think we can stop beating a dead horse as the subject is depleted.
> 
> This thread is now closed! (Any attempt to reopen it other than quick explainations to affected viewers will be deleted.)
> 
> The MODERATORS!


Hey crumbie, can you edit your post to reflect the facts of the matter, so those reading it can get the meat of the matter before getting to page 3? It feels like they are trying to squash the topic.


----------



## JohnMI

I emailed the Moderator (Gregg) about the closing of the thread and got a polite email in reply. It sounds like he basically believes that it isn't going anywhere -- and is best left as it is. I get teh impression that he agrees that they should do something different, but that the owners of the station really don't care to hear about it. Therefore, without enforcement of what is only "guidelines" for now, nothing is going to change.

So, just wanted to note that I don't think Gregg is being a jerk -- he seems reasonable now.

On a side note, I think he is indeed being pressured by the station to put this issue to rest. It looks like this is a situation where the station OWNERS are not the station management at all -- and the owners have simply told the station managers that "this is the way it is going to be." So, we're basically arguing to people that can't do much -- the owners will never hear it -- and the station probably already agrees but just can't say so publicly...

If people still want to pursuit it, I'd suggest writing letters (snail-mail, not email). Maybe one of those will get passed to an owner...

- John...


----------



## Guest

Stickeyfingers....actually the project manager said the software update for the 811 would be something like this:


End of Feb - 2-day cached EPG (that's 2 days worth of program guide) 
Middle of March - Aspect Ratio issue (I don't know what this bug is...I don't have problems) 
End of March - Dark picture SVideo software fix & program guide searching!


----------



## Rosedoc

rvissers said:


> Stickeyfingers....actually the project manager said the software update for the 811 would be something like this:
> 
> End of Feb - 2-day cached EPG (that's 2 days worth of program guide)
> Middle of March - Aspect Ratio issue (I don't know what this bug is...I don't have problems)
> End of March - Dark picture SVideo software fix & program guide searching!


Was only SVideo mentioned for the dark picture fix? I have the problem with DVI for everything except HD. I don't even use SVideo! I hope they work on a fix for the DVI and component hookups as well!


----------



## willy

Dark picture was mentioned on only SD outputs (s-vid and composite). From what Ive seen here, most see the darkness go away on DVI and component. Can you return your unit and exchange it?

If I had dark, unwatchable picture on my 811 on all outputs, I wouldnt have kept it a week before exchanging it or returning it all together.


----------



## Rosedoc

willy said:


> Dark picture was mentioned on only SD outputs (s-vid and composite). From what Ive seen here, most see the darkness go away on DVI and component. Can you return your unit and exchange it?
> 
> If I had dark, unwatchable picture on my 811 on all outputs, I wouldnt have kept it a week before exchanging it or returning it all together.


I have been lurking here and on other forums quite a bit and I have seen a lot of posts from others with the same DVI "dark sd" issue. HD and many of the regular sd channels look fine (in fact, the HD is AWESOME). But, many of the sd channels (particularly movies) can be nearly unwatchable during night scenes and other dark parts of the programming. This, as far as I can tell, is a fairly common problem with the 811 and I don't think I am alone.

I would be afraid to let go of mine considering how hard they are to get ahold of now. Besides, it's a crap shoot regarding whether or not the replacement 811 would be any better. When I contacted DishNetwork about the problem they replied that they were aware of it and (as others have reported) it would be fixed in a future software update.


----------



## willy

OK so it sounds to me like there are three problems out there. 

1 ) Dark image on SD **OUTPUTS** (svideo and componenet)
2 ) Dark image on SD channels using HD output
3 ) Dark image on HD outputs, all channels

As far as i know dish has only acknowledged #1. Thats the only issue of the three that I see on mine. ??


----------



## JohnMI

Rosedoc said:


> I have been lurking here and on other forums quite a bit and I have seen a lot of posts from others with the same DVI "dark sd" issue.


Please direct us to where there are "lots of posts" from people with dark output from the DVI or Component ports. I've seen a couple -- 3 at the most -- that I remember (and those people didn't really seem "sure" and/or hadn't calibrated their TVs for HD input). Before, when this came up, it turned out that the vast majority of people complaining of "dark" issues were talking non-HD outputs only -- or calibrated their TVs and it turned out to not be an issue.

So, I don't mean to be offensive -- as maybe I just missed them -- but I simply have not seen "lots of posts" from people with dark DVI output...

- John...


----------



## willy

John,

Sorry over-eggageration. Ive seen a few posts- not lots.


----------



## Rosedoc

willy said:


> John,
> 
> Sorry over-eggageration. Ive seen a few posts- not lots.


Agreed! I have seen more than just one or two but I didn't keep track. I just remember thinking to myself "YES!, it is a common problem and not just me!"

Regarding John's comment on calibration: I have not professionally calibrated my 56" RPT but all the HD, some SD and all DVD's look really spectacular. If I calibrated only against those dark scenes in SD movies and some other SD channels wouldn't that screw up the stuff that is "spectacular" now?

I just hope that whatever fix they come up with will work for all the outputs. If not, maybe the 811's will be a little easier to get by that time and I won't mind exchanging for another unit.


----------



## Guest

I recall lowering the black level on my DLP's component input. It was darker than the 6000's.


----------



## delkins

Why no "Dish Interactive" with the 811?


----------



## Bobby94928

delkins said:


> Why no "Dish Interactive" with the 811?


Because they need to fix the initiation bugs before they turn on the superfluous....


----------



## chenrikson

Bobby94928 said:


> Because they need to fix the initiation bugs before they turn on the superfluous....


Bobby -- I LOVE that table TV pix on your ID! What is it - Sears, Capehart, or maybe a Muntz!! " I'd like to give'em away, but my wife won't let me. She thinks I'm crazy!" 

Craig


----------



## chenrikson

It seems to me that some of the issues I had with my 811 have been "cured". For example, I haven't had to do a check switch for several days and the guide is going longer than 2-3 hours. Are they sneaking in fixes in the middle of the night?

Craig


----------



## herni

I have noticed the same thing too. But I was afraid to mention it because I don't want to get jinxed! Now watch when I go home tonight the first thing that happens when I turn the 811 on is that dreaded "Check Swith Error."


----------



## olgeezer

I've sent 4 e-mails all returned by dish. Anybody have a legitimate e-mail contact for tech support? (Check my tag--phones are not my best means of understanding)


----------



## stickyfingers

My biggest bug (besides the guide) is the "aquiring satellite signal" for 2 minutes to infinity (or at least until I move the 100 or so lbs of equipment in my rack to unplug the 811) for no reason. Still haven't been able to pigeonhole *exactly* how to make it happen - though it's tied into the OTA channels. Since holding power *doesn't* reset my 811 this is a MONSTER PITA for me. The WAF for the 811 is becoming very very low...

"Why does it always say "aquiring satellite signal"

"That's a bug..."

"How come I can't see what's on for more than 2 hours?"

"Umm...another bug"

"How come the picture window only works 1/5 of the time when I'm in the guide?"

"Uh...yeah...another bug"

"Is it ever going to aquire the damn signal?"

"No...probably not...let me go unplug it again..."

"Brian...why did we buy Dishnetwork?"

*Shrug* "I made a mistake..."

Brian


----------



## willy

stickyfingers said:


> My biggest bug (besides the guide) is the "aquiring satellite signal" for 2 minutes to infinity (or at least until I move the 100 or so lbs of equipment in my rack to unplug the 811) for no reason. Still haven't been able to pigeonhole *exactly* how to make it happen - though it's tied into the OTA channels. Since holding power *doesn't* reset my 811 this is a MONSTER PITA for me. The WAF for the 811 is becoming very very low...
> 
> "Why does it always say "aquiring satellite signal"
> 
> "That's a bug..."
> 
> "How come I can't see what's on for more than 2 hours?"
> 
> "Umm...another bug"
> 
> "How come the picture window only works 1/5 of the time when I'm in the guide?"
> 
> "Uh...yeah...another bug"
> 
> "Is it ever going to aquire the damn signal?"
> 
> "No...probably not...let me go unplug it again..."
> 
> "Brian...why did we buy Dishnetwork?"
> 
> *Shrug* "I made a mistake..."
> 
> Brian


So are you going to D*?


----------



## stickyfingers

willy said:


> So are you going to D*?


Currently that's the plan (I've stated that before - you should know that), but that's because the end game is a HD DVR. If I woke up one morning and the 921 actually worked *100%* correctly - then I might consider one of those. As is though, if the HD Tivo rolls out at ~$700 then I'm off to D*. I'll join Chris over at D* as I've had much the same experience as he w/E*. At E* stuff just doesn't work right, and AFAIK, they've made stuff "not work right" for so long that many folks just don't expect better than that (I count you among those folks)...

I'm on E* for free for this year so I'll be watching/using E* hw/programming for the next 10 months regardless of whether I switch to D* or not...

But again, I could care less whom my provider is as long as they provide good value, and the HW just works - so E* isn't ruled out, their track record just suggests that the prospects of them getting it right are slim...

Brian


----------



## Bobby94928

chenrikson said:


> Bobby -- I LOVE that table TV pix on your ID! What is it - Sears, Capehart, or maybe a Muntz!! " I'd like to give'em away, but my wife won't let me. She thinks I'm crazy!"
> 
> Craig


Craig, it's an Air King. I found of photo of one on the net. It was the first TV we had in our house back in '48. I use it as an avatar to remember where it all started for me, from there to a Mitsubishi 65' HDTV. Who knows what's next.


----------



## delkins

Bobby94928 said:


> Because they need to fix the initiation bugs before they turn on the superfluous....


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Now the drumroll for the correct answer, genius.


----------



## Stranger Monsoon

I could have sworn I signed up for a Dish Network promotion offering the 811 receiver for $149. I got my bill today and notice I've been charged $199. Does anybody remember seeing a Dish Network promotion in Decemer 2003 offering an 811 for $149 if you sign up for a year of HD content?

Thanks.....SM


----------



## stlcardfan70

kiran said:


> Hi,
> 
> This is my first post and this forum is great to get information about Dish Network.
> 
> I had a 811 installl last saturday, but, they called and rescheduled the appointment for 27th (apparantly they don't have 811 in stock). I have a SONY 34 16.9 TV and reading these posts, looks like 811 still has a lot of problems. Should I take the plunge and get the 811 or should I cancel my order and wait until they get them resolved?
> 
> Thanks for your input.
> 
> Regards,
> Kiran


Go For It! But if you don't want to wait, call some DISH resellers. Many resellers have 811's in stock.


----------



## Guest

Stranger Monsoon said:


> I could have sworn I signed up for a Dish Network promotion offering the 811 receiver for $149. I got my bill today and notice I've been charged $199. Does anybody remember seeing a Dish Network promotion in Decemer 2003 offering an 811 for $149 if you sign up for a year of HD content?
> 
> Thanks.....SM


I bought mine for $149. Many others could only muster the $199 deal.


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## Broadband Lab Rat

Stranger Monsoon said:


> I could have sworn I signed up for a Dish Network promotion offering the 811 receiver for $149. I got my bill today and notice I've been charged $199. Does anybody remember seeing a Dish Network promotion in Decemer 2003 offering an 811 for $149 if you sign up for a year of HD content?
> 
> Thanks.....SM


It depended if you were an "exclusive" customer. It appears that excusive status is based upon things like how long you have been a customer, how much $$$ you spend/have spent per month, if you have ever been late on a payment, etc., etc., the actual formula is not public.

It's very possible you were quoted $149 by mistake. You could always challenge it.... nothing to loose....

Cheers,


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## McSpeed

I have an 811 and found my phone line was not working....busy signal when calling my number and no dial tone, just clicking sound. Unplugged the phone line going to the 811 and all was fine. Plugged it back in and is okay now. Problem is it happened while I was out for a few days so got no messages.

AnyBODY else experience this?
Thanks,
McSpeed


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## chris flannery

Well after waiting patiently for a couple months my 811 is installed & working. Actually the wait gave me plenty of time to cruise this thread and be prepared for what to expect. Mt first impressions of the unit after a couple of days bonding time are : Excellent HD picture (although this is the first Hd source I've had hooked up so I don't have much to compare it to). None the less the picture is like looking through a window at times. I like the guide, it is extremely fast compared to my old model 2700 & even though it is not 2 days deep it still goes further ahead than I'm used to, about 8 hours. The only real problems I have are that on day 1 when toggling between an OTA digital channel & HDNET the optical audio dropped out as well as the analog. I had to reboot & re-aquire signal & all went back to normal. This has happened twice (not today,joy!) both times while surfing in the OTA digital channels. The OTA analog tuner is just plain horrible while the digital pictures look outstanding. I watched CSI Miami on CBS tonight and I thought the picture was incredible. The analog tuner picture is just plain unwatchable. SD channels look better than my 2700 through the DVI output. (I got my DVI cable off Ebay for $7.95 including shipping if anyone wants to know where to find an inexpensive alternative to monster). The s- video picture is about the same as I was used to, but darker. Hopefully this will be fixable with the software updates. Over all I think I'll keep it. Gotta love that HD.


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## garypen

willy said:


> OK so it sounds to me like there are three problems out there.
> 
> 1 ) Dark image on SD **OUTPUTS** (svideo and componenet)
> 2 ) Dark image on SD channels using HD output
> 3 ) Dark image on HD outputs, all channels
> 
> As far as i know dish has only acknowledged #1. Thats the only issue of the three that I see on mine. ??


I use DVI and Component outputs ONLY, and notice a darker-than-it-should-be image on a lot of the SD content (maybe HD content, too? I don't remember). It is not unacceptable. But, it is real, and less than optimum, nevertheless.

Of course, I've got all the other 811 bugs too:
-Lockups, re-acquiring signal, etc., when switching from an OTA channel to the EPG.
-Loss of closed captoning.
-Video window in EPG not working.
-Local channel remapping not working.
-Popping and audio dropouts on OTA digital channels.
-Horrible analog OTA image.
-Fluctuating OTA digital signal strength.
-No OpenTV
-No 2-day EPG. (Maybe 4 hours, if I'm lucky.)

If I would have known about these forums before ordering, I would have gone with DTV this time. I never had any problems with my Dish receivers when I used to subscribe. The standard picture quality was much better then too. It's still better than cable, but not by much.


----------



## willy

garypen said:


> I use DVI and Component outputs ONLY, and notice a darker-than-it-should-be image on a lot of the SD content (maybe HD content, too? I don't remember). It is not unacceptable. But, it is real, and less than optimum, nevertheless.
> 
> Of course, I've got all the other 811 bugs too:
> -Lockups, re-acquiring signal, etc., when switching from an OTA channel to the EPG.
> -Loss of closed captoning.
> -Video window in EPG not working.
> -Local channel remapping not working.
> -Popping and audio dropouts on OTA digital channels.
> -Horrible analog OTA image.
> -Fluctuating OTA digital signal strength.
> -No OpenTV
> -No 2-day EPG. (Maybe 4 hours, if I'm lucky.)
> 
> If I would have known about these forums before ordering, I would have gone with DTV this time. I never had any problems with my Dish receivers when I used to subscribe. The standard picture quality was much better then too. It's still better than cable, but not by much.


There should be a return policy no matter who you bought it from. If you arent happy, you are not stuck with E* or the 811.

Unless you bought it and waited 30 days to notice these issues, in which case you are stuck.


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## Stranger Monsoon

willy said:


> There should be a return policy no matter who you bought it from. If you arent happy, you are not stuck with E* or the 811.
> 
> Unless you bought it and waited 30 days to notice these issues, in which case you are stuck.


I was told by my installer that there is a one-year warranty on the 811. I didn't read the fine print (where are my glasses anyway). I made sure to contact CSR and voice my concerns of 811 problems. I also had the installer note some of the problems I noticed (prompted via this thread) on the work order.


----------



## garypen

So, it's possible to cancel the 1 year residential agreement, if I'm not happy with the service or hardware? I didn't know that. I thought I was locked in for a year, or suffer the early termination fee.


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## Stranger Monsoon

garypen said:


> So, it's possible to cancel the 1 year residential agreement, if I'm not happy with the service or hardware? I didn't know that. I thought I was locked in for a year, or suffer the early termination fee.


I can not speak to your question above. I believe what the installer told me was that the 811 had a one-year warranty. What does that mean? To me it means that after a year of waiting for E* to fix their problems, if that is not done, I'll try and return my 811.
__________

B&K AVR-507
Dish Network 811
Fujitsu P50XHA10US Plasma
Sony N999-ES DVD
XBox (hacked...of course!)
Monster Power AVS-2000
Monster Power HTS-5100
Miller & Kreisel S-150 THX ULTRA Speaker System
Miller & Kreisel MX-350 MK II THX ULTRA Sub Woofer
AudioQuest Cabling


----------



## garypen

Stranger Monsoon said:


> I can not speak to your question above. I believe what the installer told me was that the 811 had a one-year warranty. What does that mean? To me it means that after a year of waiting for E* to fix their problems, if that is not done, I'll try and return my 811.
> __________


That much is obvious. However, since the problem lies with ALL 811's, not my individual unit, the problem really lies with E* itself. That is what I would return, E* itself, and get a working HDTV satellite solution.

What I don't understand is why E* doesn't have JVC or Philips actually design the damn stuff, since they seem to build it for E* anyway. I guarantee if E* brass were to say to JVC, "We need a unit that does A,B,C, and D.", they will get a unit that does A,B,C, and D, and maybe E and F as well. Hell...even Samsung units for DTV work as advertised.

You know what's ironic is that my 311 works flawlessly, as did my 4700/4900 and 3700 with my previous subscription. (I did have a bad switch that drove me crazy for a while, though.)


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## ee1995

While watching KGAN 2.1 OTA HDTV evening feeds, my 811 drops the audio when they switch back to SD for the late news feed. I have to go off channel then back to restore the audio. Is this an 811 problem or a problem with the local station.

Update: Got a reply form KGAN and they are manually switching using patch cords and menu changes to go from CBS HDTV sat feed to local upconverted until they get a switcher installed.

Update: This happens on KWWL NBC as well. Audio is lost when they switch from HDTV to SD prior to late newscast. I switch off channel and back and audio is restored.


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## AztecRol

Hey guys, I got a question for you all. I will be installing a 811 for a customer soon. I wanted to order a Middle Atlantic Custom Rack Shelf for it. I rarely do Dish Network, so I dont know alot about their receivers. I did install one 6000 HD receiver in another clients house. I have the 811 on my desk, and to me they look very similar. Does ANYONE have both units in front of them?? I called Middle Atlantic and they are not making the rack shelves for the 811 yet. They dont have one to measure up. So my question is, If anyone has both of them, can you tell if they use the same front face??? Let me know!! TIA for all your time and effort!!


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## Ron Barry

I had both a 6000 and an 811 and I took the 6000 and placed in in the 811 box when I shipped the unit to the person that bought it so they are very similar insize. I would say almost identical in dimensions. That was my experience. You should be able to find some confirmation by doing a little googling.


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## kstevens

Anybody know when the next software update is supposed to be released? Is is supposed to fix the program guide to make it 48 hours.


Ken


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## rocatman

On the Tech Forum on 2/9/04, it was stated that a software update for the 811 would be near the end of February and that would fix the program guide for 48 hours. Let's hope that the 811 software update isn't tied to the 921 software update because it sounds like that maybe delayed till next week. There was also mention on the Tech Forum of another software update in March that would fix other problems like aspect ratios and the dark picture. Based on other threads it appears these software updates will be versions 264 and 265 respectively. I still would like to see program guide mapping. This has been mentioned in some 921 threads and would allow someone that can get there locals via satellite to map that guide data to their HD locals. I do not know if this is possible with the 811 or only with a DVR. Of course this doesn't help those in areas where Dish does not offer locals.


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## luckycat

osxguy said:


> I have the same problem with my 811. Clearly other folks with 811's do not have this problem, so I'm guessing that we have bad hardware. See the thread I started here:
> 
> http://www.satelliteguys.us/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4328
> 
> matt.


I have the same problem.. it is getting difficult to track specific issues in this huge 811 thread. I sent an email to Dish about my 811 dolby digital problems (can only use with PCM, get clicking/chirps when Dolby Digital used), and their response was that it was a known software issue that will be fixed. However, you indicate that others do not have this problem, which would make me believe it is a hardware issue.

So, what's the deal? Is it a hardware issue or software? How many people can use Dolby Digital TOSLINK w/ their 811?


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## Guest

After having a new Superdish system and 811 installed recently, here is my 2 cents about the receiver.

Overall I'm pleased, assuming they can fix the darkness issue. The guide is sufficent, the HD pic quality is great (my Insight cable HD was a little better though), the DD 5.1 out works nicely and the OTA tuner works fine for me (so far). That said, the SVideo darkness issue is really horrible, not unwatchable, but bad enough to assume they would make this the number 1 priority (which I've head it isn't). For the record, I don't use DVI, my component output looks fine for both HD and SD and as stated above I have the now infamous darkness issue on the SVideo and composite outputs.

I've never been a Dish customer until now, I work as a software dev and I used to be in QA for a software company so I think I can state, without "just bashing" E*, that it honestly shocks me that the darkness problem hasn't been fixed yet. That bug is so obvious and glaring that I can't believe they're not pouring everything into getting rid of this bad picture. I mean it's not like it's just an inconvenience or something we can work around like some of the guide issues. At least we can still use component or DVI (well most people anyway). My problem is I need to hook my 811 through my old ReplayTV using SVideo, so for now I'm screwed. I think I'm going to buy a 501 from my buddy who doesn't use it so I don't have to connect to the ReplayTV anymore. Anyone know if I can use the 501 with my current set up (SuperDish with DishPro DP34 switch)? I'll just use the 811 for HD only. I don't mind since I got it for nothing with the free SuperDish promo (1 yr contract) anyway.


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## JohnMI

I think it (the darkness on SVideo issue) isn't the highest priority simply because it doesn't affect that many people in their eyes. If you buy an HD unit, you should be connecting it via DVI or Component cables, in general. I don't think that many people are connecting the 811 to a VCR or ReplayTV box, for example, via SVideo.

Yes, obviously people are -- and it needs to be fixed -- but since the intended usage would be people connecting it directly to an HDTV -- and therefore with Component or DVI cabling -- then there are likely other higher priority issues than people using the SVideo output. For example, many people who use the box on a regular basis connected to their HDTV in a "normal" way would probably like to see a working 48-hour guide. To me, that seems a worthy higher-priority item than SVideo output.

Heck, the SVideo output could be DEAD/DISABLED, and I still think some people (and even Dish) might put the guide as higher priority -- simply because that would be more toward the "intended" usage of the product...

But, hopefully, it will be corrected soon, yes.

In any case, yes, you should be able to connect a 501 to your SuperDish w/ DP34. That is what I have connected with no problems (along with my 811).

- John...


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## herni

My 811 is hooked up to my 53' RCA 4x3 HDTV. Anyway, does anyone else with a 4x3 HDTV notice that on every NBC HD broadcast, there is a solid white line at the bottom of the screen? I get this when I use my TV's "widescreen" mode (which, BTW, for those of you with 4x3 TVs, you get a better picture using your TVs "widescreen" mode instead of letting the 811 letterbox the HD image.) and also when I let my 811 letterbox the image. I know this is not a problem with my TV because my cousin, who also has a 4x3 HDTV and an 811, has the same problem. So my question is this, is this an 811 issue, or an NBC issue?


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## ee1995

herni said:


> My 811 is hooked up to my 53' RCA 4x3 HDTV. Anyway, does anyone else with a 4x3 HDTV notice that on every NBC HD broadcast, there is a solid white line at the bottom of the screen? I get this when I use my TV's "widescreen" mode (which, BTW, for those of you with 4x3 TVs, you get a better picture using your TVs "widescreen" mode instead of letting the 811 letterbox the HD image.) and also when I let my 811 letterbox the image. I know this is not a problem with my TV because my cousin, who also has a 4x3 HDTV and an 811, has the same problem. So my question is this, is this an 811 issue, or an NBC issue?


I don't see this with NBC on my 811 and Dish 34" tube monitor (16x9).


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## ypsiguy

rmr76 said:


> I'll agree here. I'm still waiting on an 811 (on the call back list), but even with my existing 301 I notice the artifacts on my new 51" Hitachi HDTV. Simply put, the higher quality display just makes the artifacts that much more visible than on my old 27" Sharp. Clean Analog OTA channels & DVD's look great though. Also, I don't know about their HD, but the regular Comcast digital channels in my neighbor's house looked pretty bad too.


IMHO, I think most of the SD complaints boil down to MPEG-2 compression problems. I have an OTA Samsung DTV box and pixelation exists there as well, especially on SD broadcasts. PBS-HD (more bandwidth) only pixelates on extreme motion sequences, i.e. like a flock of birds on "Nature" the other night. MPEG-2 "on the fly" compression just hasn't arrived yet. On the 811, think I'm gonna let these other folks work the bugs out for me first hehehe.


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## willy

Agreed- my SD looks like SH*T on both my 508 and my 811. OTA SD is more tolerable. 

I just cant take any SD after "seeing the light" with HD


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## kstevens

It's been 2 months now since I got my 811. I can't believe we haven't gotten a software update since then. What is going on?


Ken


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## JohnMI

Well, if you've really had it two months, then you actually DID get an update since you got it: one was released on 23-Dec-2003.

Now, if you've had it a bit LESS than two months, then, well, you just happened to get it just after a new update -- and we're hoping for another one soon.

I agree that we'd rather have them quicker -- but two months isn't necessarily a hugely unreasonable time to wait...

- John...


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## kstevens

jgoggan said:


> Well, if you've really had it two months, then you actually DID get an update since you got it: one was released on 23-Dec-2003.
> 
> Now, if you've had it a bit LESS than two months, then, well, you just happened to get it just after a new update -- and we're hoping for another one soon.
> 
> I agree that we'd rather have them quicker -- but two months isn't necessarily a hugely unreasonable time to wait...
> 
> - John...


The 921 has had 2 updates since then. I think it is, especially considering the bugs.

Ken


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## garypen

jgoggan said:


> I agree that we'd rather have them quicker -- but two months isn't necessarily a hugely unreasonable time to wait...
> 
> - John...


It most certainly is. The product has way too many bugs out of the box, and it is taking too long to correct them. It is that simple. There is no acceptable excuse.

I do not understand why so many people become atached to Dish, or any company for that matter, and defend every poor business decision, mistake, and/or downright deception, as if they had a personal stake in the company, or it was a family member. Ridiculous.

Dish f-ed up, and continues to f-up. Period. I was a long time subscriber, but left for a year, recently coming back. Perhaps the long time subscribers who have been with them all this time don't notice the drop in quality (HW, CS, and PQ), as it may have been gradual. But I do. Lousy PQ, morons at CS, and embarrasingly buggy HW with missing ADVERTISED features.

I decided to go back with Dish because I remembered how much I enjoyed it before. Well....It ain't your father's Dish! (As the Olds commerials used to say.) I'll give 'em the benefit of the doubt and hope they get this 811 thing worked out. Otherwise, in a year I'll be giving DTV a call.

BTW, I'm writing this while staying in Japan, and this sort of quality and customer service issue simply wouldn't happen here. It embarrases me that it is so common in the US, and that Americans take this kind of crap for granted. (to the point of defending the company for crissakes!)


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## JohnMI

kstevens said:


> The 921 has had 2 updates since then.


Exactly! They've had to dedicate more time to the 921 because, in my opinion, it has more serious bugs. With an 811, most people can tune OTA channels and such. With the 921, most couldn't. That seems more significant to me than dark SVideo, for example.



> I think it is, especially considering the bugs.


I guess it depends on the bugs. I would guess that Dish thinks that some of the 921 bugs were more important to fix quickly than the dark SVideo and the lack of a 48-hour guide.

Again, don't get me wrong -- I want the bugs fixed too -- but I guess I'm just not overly surprised that the 921 is getting some priority right now.

- John...


----------



## JohnMI

garypen said:


> It most certainly is. The product has way too many bugs out of the box,


Such as? What are the "show-stoppers" here that the "average" 811 user would be stuck with? I've had an 811 for a while now -- and used it on a regular basis. It worked quite well for me. Yes, there are some problems -- but I just don't see them as more important than some of the other bugs that they are fixing on the 921. Yes, maybe they need more programmers and blah, blah, blah -- but people saying that they are upset because the 811 has only had one update in the last two months and the 921 has had two is just illogical to me. Of COURSE the 921 has had more work done -- it has more problems that need fixing NOW.



> I do not understand why so many people become atached to Dish, or any company for that matter, and defend every poor business decision, mistake, and/or downright deception, as if they had a personal stake in the company, or it was a family member. Ridiculous.


I do not understand why some people think that someone discussing logical product development issues means that they are "attached to Dish." I complain a GREAT DEAL about Dish. Read my posts if you need proof. I'm definitely a "squeaky wheel" when it comes to Dish issues. But, I also don't need to get my way all the time. I understand that development takes time and people -- and that, sometimes, certain projects get priority.



> Dish f-ed up, and continues to f-up. Period. I was a long time subscriber, but left for a year, recently coming back. Perhaps the long time subscribers who have been with them all this time don't notice the drop in quality (HW, CS, and PQ), as it may have been gradual. But I do. Lousy PQ, morons at CS,


Ok -- well -- now you've gone off onto completely unrelated issues. I think that is another problem in this thread. People easily slip from complaining about a darkness problem on a lesser used output into PQ, lame CSRs, and other things. Yes, Dish has problems in those areas -- but that doesn't make 811 bugs any more important.



> and embarrasingly buggy HW with missing ADVERTISED features.


Again, please be specific when you go on about these. We've seen this happen in the past: people get generic, just keep saying "bugs" and then leave it at that. If you are having a specific problem with the 811 -- and a missing ADVERTISED feature, then tell us which one you mean in particular. I guess part of my stance is that I don't see "show-stopper" bugs that make the 811 unusable. Bugs, yes -- but not ones like the 921. So, again, it's a priority issue.



> BTW, I'm writing this while staying in Japan, and this sort of quality and customer service issue simply wouldn't happen here. It embarrases me that it is so common in the US, and that Americans take this kind of crap for granted. (to the point of defending the company for crissakes!)


Again, you have no idea of my feelings toward Dish. There is a difference between defending a company and recognizing development cycles for multiple products. They have a brand-new, much-desired receiver with some problems. Yes, they made mistakes -- they have bugs -- both of them -- and the 921, I think, is getting some deserved precedence right now. I may not LIKE it -- but I can UNDERSTAND it. I'm sorry that you can't understand that without equating it (incorrectly) to company loyalty/defense.

- John...


----------



## kstevens

Well, here are 4 bugs right off the top of my head:

1. Dark s-video (which everyone know about
2. Watching OTA then switching to the guide, you lose the satellite signal and it takes 5 plus minutes for it to come back. In the mean time you are locked out of both ota and satellite.
3. When you first power up the system for the day, the entire guide shows "no info available". If you don't go to a satellite channel and sit there for 5 minutes, the guide won't refresh.
4. Signal strength on ota digital channels is screwed up. In a lot of cases I can't even lock the station in when trying to add to the local list. On my 6000 all four of my local digital stations comes in without any problems at all, all showing 70-90 percent strength.

And there are more....


Ken


----------



## garypen

jgoggan said:


> Such as? What are the "show-stoppers" here that the "average" 811 user would be stuck with? I've had an 811 for a while now -- and used it on a regular basis. It worked quite well for me. Yes, there are some problems -- but I just don't see them as more important than some of the other bugs that they are fixing on the 921. Yes, maybe they need more programmers and blah, blah, blah -- but people saying that they are upset because the 811 has only had one update in the last two months and the 921 has had two is just illogical to me. Of COURSE the 921 has had more work done -- it has more problems that need fixing NOW.


I do not own a 921. My 811 needs fixing NOW. More accurately, it should not have been shipped, if it needed fixing, nor should have the 921. Showstoppers? How about expecting a product to work correctly, and as advertised, OOB? Is that too much to expect? (In the US, it seems it is.)

In an earier, but recent, post in this thread I listed the problems I've experienced, which seem in line with what others have been posting. They seem quite common.



> I do not understand why some people think that someone discussing logical product development issues means that they are "attached to Dish." I complain a GREAT DEAL about Dish. Read my posts if you need proof. I'm definitely a "squeaky wheel" when it comes to Dish issues. But, I also don't need to get my way all the time. I understand that development takes time and people -- and that, sometimes, certain projects get priority.


You prove my point. You have accepted shoddy products, and the excuses that companies give for releasing them. You should not have to be a "squeaky wheel". The product should work 100% OOB. There should be no argument to that point. Anyone who does argue that point has accepted the lower standards that so many corporations have been shovelling at us for too long. You see I DO need to get my way all the time. I am the CUSTOMER. That is the proper way to do business.



> Ok -- well -- now you've gone off onto completely unrelated issues. I think that is another problem in this thread. People easily slip from complaining about a darkness problem on a lesser used output into PQ, lame CSRs, and other things. Yes, Dish has problems in those areas -- but that doesn't make 811 bugs any more important.


It is indicative of Dish's attitude to their customers. As such, it was relavent to the point being made about people's acceptance of the 811 bugs, and lower quality in general to the point of defending a company for providing such.



> Again, please be specific when you go on about these. We've seen this happen in the past: people get generic, just keep saying "bugs" and then leave it at that. If you are having a specific problem with the 811 -- and a missing ADVERTISED feature, then tell us which one you mean in particular. I guess part of my stance is that I don't see "show-stopper" bugs that make the 811 unusable. Bugs, yes -- but not ones like the 921. So, again, it's a priority issue.


You still miss the point. The 921 bugs are irrelavent to the 811. Neither model should have been released as they were. They should both have worked as advertised OOB. Period. 
I expect my 811 to work correctly, as advertised, not simply "usable", regardless of how another model works. And, 921 owners should expect theirs to work correctly, regardless of how well the 811 works.
Since you are apparently unaware of the multitude of bugs and missing features reported by so many here, which seems odd BTW, I'll reiterate:
-48 Hour EPG not functioning. 3 or 4 hours currently.
-Video window in EPG not functioning correctly.
-VCR timer going to blank image when starting recording.
-No Dish Interactive.
-Dish Locals not remapping to correct local channel numbers.
-"Acquiring Satellite" error when switching between OTA and Sat channels.
-Terrible analog OTA reception
-Fluctuating OTA digital signal strength.
-Dark, almost unwatchable image in SD outputs (n/a to me, but should work, regardless)
-Dark, but watchable image on HD outputs. (Should be better, but acceptable for now)
-Popping and dropouts on OTA audio.
-Aspect ratio not properly adjustable.
-Intermittant Closed Caption.

That's all I can remember off the top of my head since I'm in Japan right now, and haven't used my 811 in over a week. Still...specific enough for ya?



> Again, you have no idea of my feelings toward Dish. There is a difference between defending a company and recognizing development cycles for multiple products. They have a brand-new, much-desired receiver with some problems. Yes, they made mistakes -- they have bugs -- both of them -- and the 921, I think, is getting some deserved precedence right now. I may not LIKE it -- but I can UNDERSTAND it. I'm sorry that you can't understand that without equating it (incorrectly) to company loyalty/defense.


I _understand_ why many criminals commit murder and other crimes. However, that doesn't make the crimes any less wrong. Of course, I'm not equating murder to buggy HW or bad CS. But, Dish has done wrong here. To accept it is to condone it.

By offering excuses for Dish's actions, you are in effect defending those actions. But, since i wasn't originally referring to you in particular, there was no need to get defensive about your own actions. (Of course, _this _ post is referring to you in particular.)


----------



## JohnMI

kstevens said:


> Well, here are 4 bugs right off the top of my head:
> 
> 1. Dark s-video (which everyone know about


Right -- as explained above, I don't consider this critical -- or, at least, I can see Dish not seeing it as critical. I think the vast majority of 811 owners would be using Component or DVI outputs. If they are using SVideo for normal TV watching from the 811, then they are throwing money away, IMO.

Yes, there are some exceptions -- recording and such -- but I think those are few enough that this doesn't warrant "critical" status. In other words, it can wait a few months to fix if there are higher priority things to take care of.



> 2. Watching OTA then switching to the guide, you lose the satellite signal and it takes 5 plus minutes for it to come back. In the mean time you are locked out of both ota and satellite.


Does this happen to everyone? I'm not as familiar with the OTA bugs, unfortunately. So, I'm not sure how critical this one is either.



> 3. When you first power up the system for the day, the entire guide shows "no info available". If you don't go to a satellite channel and sit there for 5 minutes, the guide won't refresh.


I don't have this problem with my 811. When I turn it on, I seem to usually have guide data available -- just not very far into the future, of course. Again, I don't see this as critical as some 921 OTA issues, for example.



> 4. Signal strength on ota digital channels is screwed up. In a lot of cases I can't even lock the station in when trying to add to the local list. On my 6000 all four of my local digital stations comes in without any problems at all, all showing 70-90 percent strength.


I have heard of this, but haven't seen it myself. I was under the impression that most people had this working by adding them manually. Is the accurate?

- John...


----------



## JohnMI

garypen said:


> I do not own a 921. My 811 needs fixing NOW. More accurately, it should not have been shipped, if it needed fixing, nor should have the 921.


That may be the case. Maybe none of us should have an 811 or 921. That still doesn't change any argument about what Dish CAN do about it and how quickly. I'm not saying the unit is FINE as it is -- I'm saying that you need to recognize that they have to prioritize when they fix things. There are only so many developers to go around.



> You prove my point. You have accepted shoddy products, and the excuses that companies give for releasing them.


No, I haven't accept the products as they are. I've simply recognized that 811 owners might have to wait for 921 issues. I know that makes you upset -- and that you "don't care" about 921 issues. But I'm just trying to tell you WHY things are the way they are -- and I don't find it completely unreasonable for a company to have to prioritize fixes.



> You should not have to be a "squeaky wheel". The product should work 100% OOB. There should be no argument to that point. Anyone who does argue that point has accepted the lower standards that so many corporations have been shovelling at us for too long. You see I DO need to get my way all the time. I am the CUSTOMER. That is the proper way to do business.


The idea that all high-technology products might be released working 100% all of the time is just unreasonable. And that thought is NOT because I'm some stupid American that is "accepting" of such things. I work in software development. I do a GREAT job -- but that doesn't mean that everything I've ever shipped was 100% bug free. And it isn't because I expect my clients to accept a "lower standard" -- it is because clients know that some bugs are going to happen -- and be corrected.

But, again, that's another issue. If you want to argue that they shouldn't have RELEASED the 921 or 811 yet -- then ARGUE THAT. We're talking about a completely different issue -- and that is how bug corrections are handled once discovered.



> It is indicative of Dish's attitude to their customers. As such, it was relavent to the point being made about people's acceptance of the 811 bugs, and lower quality in general to the point of defending a company for providing such.


Again, I haven't said ANYTHING before now about Dish's shipping of the 811 with bugs. I have only been trying to explain why, now it is out WITH those bugs, that it isn't illogical, in my opinion, for Dish to not have a bug fix release quite as often as you would like -- because I recognize the other issues going on.

If you want to argue that they shouldn't have shipped -- that's fine. If you want to argue that they need to hire more people -- that's fine too. But those are DIFFERENT arguments than what we have been discussing: which is how they are handling the bugs now that they've made mistakes to get to the point where they are now. All I am trying to explain is that, at this point, it does not seem that unreasonable to me that Dish has done two 921 updates in the past month and only one 811. That makes logical sense to me based on the bugs that I have seen so far.



> You still miss the point. The 921 bugs are irrelavant to the 811.


No, they aren't. You are ignoring resources and other factors involved in fixing the 811 bugs if you call the 921 bugs irrelevant. They certainly ARE relavent when discussing the 811 bugs.



> Neither model should have been released as they were.


Completely different discussion than what we were originally referring to. Completely different.



> Since you are apparently unaware of the multitude of bugs and missing features reported by so many here, which seems odd BTW,


I'm not unaware of most of the reported 811 bugs. What I said was that I could understand why many of them were not high priority items relative to other issues that Dish needs to be working on.



> -48 Hour EPG not functioning. 3 or 4 hours currently.


Exactly. I don't see this is critical.



> -Video window in EPG not functioning correctly.


Or this.



> -VCR timer going to blank image when starting recording.


I admit I don't remember this one. But, I've said before that I think Dish would put the "recording problems" as not too high on the bug list -- and I can see logic in that.



> -No Dish Interactive.


Again, not a show-stopper by any means.



> -Dish Locals not remapping to correct local channel numbers.


Ditto.



> -"Acquiring Satellite" error when switching between OTA and Sat channels.


If a very common occurrence, I agree that this one could be fairly critical. Hopefully fixed soon. I don't know how often people get this, as I said.



> -Terrible analog OTA reception
> -Fluctuating OTA digital signal strength.


This seems to vary by user and situation. Some people seem to have fine OTA with their 811s. So, again, a problem that needs to be looked at -- but probably not classified that high.



> -Dark, almost unwatchable image in SD outputs (n/a to me, but should work, regardless)


I've already explained that this is likely not high because of the intended usage of the 811.



> -Dark, but watchable image on HD outputs. (Should be better, but acceptable for now)


Again, many people with properly calibrated TVs don't get this. I don't get this. Maybe slightly darker than my 501, but certainly not a high priority issue.



> -Popping and dropouts on OTA audio.


I'm not sure how widespread this one is. I've seen many people say it is fine -- and others only with certain broadcasts. Because of reports like that, I can see Dish not seeing it as critical.



> -Aspect ratio not properly adjustable.
> -Intermittant Closed Caption.


Both are problems -- but I can see Dish not seeing them as huge.

Don't get me wrong -- ALL of those issues need to be looked at. I'm just saying that waiting 2 months for an update doesn't seem that unreasonable for most of those issues. I can see Dish putting resources to other problems first is all.



> That's all I can remember off the top of my head since I'm in Japan right now, and haven't used my 811 in over a week. Still...specific enough for ya?


Again, we see differently on this because you refuse to acknowledge that resources are limited and bugs in other receivers ARE relavent. Of COURSE they are part of the decision making process by Dish as to how soon they can fix 811 errors. If you won't see that, then we'll just have to agree to disagree -- because you'll never understand what I have been trying to explain to you.



> By offering excuses for Dish's actions, you are in effect defending those actions.


I am "defending" their actions as far as timeline for 811 bug fixes go -- by explaining why I think it is unreasonable to get so worked up over taking two months for an 811 upgrade. That is all. I'm not defending Dish for shipping the units already. I am not "accepting" the unit as it is. I EXPECT it to be corrected. I just understand that EXPECTING it to be corrected within two months might not be reasonable. Therefore, getting so upset about it not happening within two months, to me, seems unreasonable.

- John...


----------



## fixoman

jgoggan said:


> Right -- as explained above, I don't consider this critical -- or, at least, I can see Dish not seeing it as critical. I think the vast majority of 811 owners would be using Component or DVI outputs. If they are using SVideo for normal TV watching from the 811, then they are throwing money away, IMO.
> 
> Yes, there are some exceptions -- recording and such -- but I think those are few enough that this doesn't warrant "critical" status. In other words, it can wait a few months to fix if there are higher priority things to take care of.
> 
> Does this happen to everyone? I'm not as familiar with the OTA bugs, unfortunately. So, I'm not sure how critical this one is either.
> 
> I don't have this problem with my 811. When I turn it on, I seem to usually have guide data available -- just not very far into the future, of course. Again, I don't see this as critical as some 921 OTA issues, for example.
> 
> I have heard of this, but haven't seen it myself. I was under the impression that most people had this working by adding them manually. Is the accurate?
> 
> - John...


I think you a correct. I to have to add my OTA channels manually but the receiver will sometimes drop them. PS. is anybody using a roof top antenna to pull in OTA's from about 60 miles or greater? if so what type?


----------



## kstevens

jgoggan said:


> Right -- as explained above, I don't consider this critical -- or, at least, I can see Dish not seeing it as critical. I think the vast majority of 811 owners would be using Component or DVI outputs. If they are using SVideo for normal TV watching from the 811, then they are throwing money away, IMO.
> 
> Yes, there are some exceptions -- recording and such -- but I think those are few enough that this doesn't warrant "critical" status. In other words, it can wait a few months to fix if there are higher priority things to take care of.
> 
> Does this happen to everyone? I'm not as familiar with the OTA bugs, unfortunately. So, I'm not sure how critical this one is either.
> 
> I don't have this problem with my 811. When I turn it on, I seem to usually have guide data available -- just not very far into the future, of course. Again, I don't see this as critical as some 921 OTA issues, for example.
> 
> I have heard of this, but haven't seen it myself. I was under the impression that most people had this working by adding them manually. Is the accurate?
> 
> - John...


I can repeat all of the errors. I can not add the ota digital channels manually because the signal strength never gets high enough to lock.

Ken


----------



## garypen

jgoggan said:


> I've simply recognized that 811 owners might have to wait for 921 issues. I know that makes you upset -- and that you "don't care" about 921 issues. But I'm just trying to tell you WHY things are the way they are -- and I don't find it completely unreasonable for a company to have to prioritize fixes.


a. I am not upset. 
b. I UNDERSTAND why they are the way they are. I am stating that it is WRONG for them to act that way.
c. It IS unreasonable to take so long to correct the problems.


----------



## shivane

Does anyone have an issue with the "show info" button? When scrolling to another channel while watching a program, pressing the "show info" button causes the translucent info screen to appear for a second, and then disappear. Pressing the info button again brings up the non-translucent program info screen. Anyone else experience this?


----------



## stickyfingers

garypen said:


> a. I am not upset.
> b. I UNDERSTAND why they are the way they are. I am stating that it is WRONG for them to act that way.
> c. It IS unreasonable to take so long to correct the problems.


Gary, I'm busy atm, and I'll have a larger reply to this later, but I wanted you to know that you're certainly not alone. The 811 is a horribly done, relevant to comparable boxes, piece of HW. There is no excuse for releasing something with so many issues. There's even less excuse for not fixing them promptly. The only saving grace is, you could have bought a 921 and paid $1000 for the joy of beta testing E*s HW.

For whatever reason, there's an inordinate amount of E* homers on the DBS boards (let me say clearly that those in charge of the boards are *not* among them) and with the folks you can't win.

Anyhow, if you visit other boards, folks won't even consider E* atm for HD, due to the sad state of both the 811 and the 921. You're not alone - and guess what? You made pefect sense... 

Brian


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## garypen

stickyfingers said:


> You're not alone - and guess what? You made pefect sense...
> 
> Brian


I am thank you with much. I am always try to making a perfect sense it does.


----------



## emkay

This may be of interest to those who are considering upgrading to an 811. For customers that frequent this helpful forum, I ask for your suggestions. For Dish Network employees that may read this thread, I ask that you take action on this issue.

As an existing customer, I was offered $149 for the upgrade to the 811 receiver. I specifically asked if the upgrade they were offering was contingent upon signing up for the HD package, and was told that I did not need to get the HD package.

I had the 811 installed a few weeks ago. I went through the problems with actually getting it installed that many on this forum have noted.

I received my first post-installation bill yesterday and discovered that I am being charged for the HD package. I immediately called customer support and they told me that I had signed up for an upgrade that must include one year's subscription to the HD package. Furthermore, I was told that there would be a significant fee if I cancel the service. I told the representative and her supervisor several times that when I signed up I was told that the HD package was not required. In addition I was never told about a cancellation fee. The supervisor insisted that I was obligated to the HD package or the cancellation fee. I questioned if it was Dish Network's policy to sign up customers for services without their permission. The supervisor would not answer that question, but simply restated that I am obligated to the HD package. The supervisor finally offered me two month's discount on the HD package. 

I asked to speak to the supervisor's manager and was told that they are not allowed to do so. If I called in at another time I could speak to another supervisor, but would not be allowed to speak to the next level of management.

To add some icing to the cake: Since the above-noted call I have wondered why I can't tune the HD satellite channels. I now believe that my older antenna does not provide the capability. Hence I have been forced to sign up and pay for programming that I have no capability to view. 

While the offer to comp 2 months of HD programming (which the supervisor ensured had no strings attached) is better than nothing, I believe what has occurred is clearly unethical and perhaps illegal.


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## rocatman

emkay,

Based on your post, I assume you only have a Dish300 and not the Dish500 and no one told you that you needed the Dish500 to get the HD Package channels? This is unbelieve. There has been a great deal of confusion on Dish's part regarding the one year commitment to the HD package. Some folks were told a commitment was not needed and others were told it was. It seemed that there was complete chaos at Dish when the 811 was released. 

It is interesting that you received the $149 offer for the 811 since many including myself were only eligible for the $199. It was believed that this was based on how much programming you had paid for in the last year or two. I guess I am curious what programming you have been subscribed to recently.

Your post is a little bit confusing since you used the term antenna which on these forums normally refers to reception of Over the Air (OTA) channels. Certainly Dish can not ensure you can get local HDTV channels and can not be held accountable if you can not get them because this is highly dependent on your location and the OTA antenna that you have.


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## emkay

rocatman,

Yes, I probably have the Dish300. As I recall, when I originally signed up for the 811 upgrade the fact that I did not have a Dish500 was discussed. However we also discussed that I did not need to sign up for the HD package, so I did not feel as though I needed to upgrade to the Dish500 at that time. I apologize for the confusing terminology. I was referencing HD programming via satellite, rather than OTA.

When I had read much of this forum previously I had focussed on the 811 software bugs, so I do not recall others posting issues about the confusion over whether the HD package is required. Thanks for pointing that out.

My monthly bill in the past as been about $75. Is that comparable to yours?


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## SRW1000

emkay,

I was also automatically "upgraded" to the HD pak, even though I was specifically told by the Dish rep that I wasn't required to make any programming changes or commitment to get the $149 811 deal. I had signed up for it the first week they offered the 811, and between the sign up time and the installation time, they changed the terms of the agreement to force customers to take the HD pak for one year.

I called the day after installation, and was given the same story as you were. I told the rep that I didn't want the HD pak and was told that I didn't need it, she transferred me to her supervisor, who told me the same thing. Then she said that I agreed to the HD pak by signing the terms and conditions agreement and I should check the small print. The best she could offer was to have me return the 811 to them under a buyer's remorse option. What a load of crap.

I did check, and there was no mention of any programming commitment, so I called back. This time, I got a _helpful_ CSR, who actually listened. I calmly told him everything that I told the previous reps, making sure that he knew that I never requested the HD pak and that I had specifically asked about programming commitments. He put me on hold to check with his supervisor, and said that because I was and exclusive customer and there was no requirement at the time I signed up, they would remove the HD pak and I wouldn't be penalized.

So, they do have the ability to remove the package, and if you never agreed to it, I think they'll have to remove it for you too.

Also, if they installed an 811 without also installing a Dish 500 or Superdish, you had a faulty installation. It should have been included with the upgrade to the 811.

I'd suggest you keep calling back. You should eventually find someone that can help you. It's really hit and miss with their CSRs.

Scott


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## JohnMI

When the offer was big and everyone was talking about it, I thought that they had said that the "exlusives" could get it for $149 with no commitment -- and that everyone else was $199 plus the year of HDPak. But, I can't remember for certain (and I wasn't in the "exclusive" bunch). Hopefully, some others that bought at $149 can confirm/deny whether or not they had to do the HDPak deal.

On a side note, last time I had an issue over something similar, I asked for the paperwork/contract itself stating that I had to keep the commitment. They couldn't come up with it -- and finally let me out of said "commitment" which I had not agreed to nor been told about (in fact, I had asked specifically and been told exactly the opposite: that I was NOT under a commitment). So, you might try that -- tell them that you want the details of this agreement that shows the 811 upgrade for $149 plus HDPak.

I think it is odd, actually, that we can get locked into these commitments without ever signing anything. It's all verbal -- and different CSRs commonly tell us different things -- and then all of a sudden we're in a 12-month contract that was never mentioned anywhere?

- John...


----------



## Guest

I paid $149 for the 811 and was already on the HD pack 1 year agreement from my previous 6000 purchase. They never mentioned the one year requirement to me and I am assuming my year of HD is over in September. It was pre paid and I will not agree to paying more afterwards, unless I want the product. I figure by September the murky waters should be fairly clear in the now turbid sea of HD satellite providers.


----------



## herni

kstevens said:


> Well, here are 4 bugs right off the top of my head:
> 
> 1. Dark s-video (which everyone know about
> 2. Watching OTA then switching to the guide, you lose the satellite signal and it takes 5 plus minutes for it to come back. In the mean time you are locked out of both ota and satellite.
> 3. When you first power up the system for the day, the entire guide shows "no info available". If you don't go to a satellite channel and sit there for 5 minutes, the guide won't refresh.
> 4. Signal strength on ota digital channels is screwed up. In a lot of cases I can't even lock the station in when trying to add to the local list. On my 6000 all four of my local digital stations comes in without any problems at all, all showing 70-90 percent strength.
> 
> And there are more....
> 
> Ken


Not to back track, but that darn "check switch error" is really starting to p--s me off! It is happening once a day now, after going a week without doing it. Has anyone else noticed the frequency of this happening to them? And does anyone know if this is a software "bug" or a hardware issue?


----------



## Nyte_eyes

I just got my 811 today....and it has been a rough day...no matter what we do, we cannot get our OTA to cooperate. We went and bought a new antenna, some channels come in but the rest's strength is just all over the place.

We got our 811 at 10 this morning, it is now 630pm and we just decided to give up. I didnt figure getting the OTA was going to be such a game.

I dont know if we should take the antenna back and stick with our old one...either way we still cant get all the channels.

Im wondering if its the 811 doing this? From what my hubby thought he understood, its been said that if you can receive OTA analog channels, you should have no problem getting the OTA digital channels..is this right?

Thanks for any advice...


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## emkay

Scott, John, gpflepsen,

My second try with trying to remove the HD package programming was unsuccessful (although much less frustrating). 

It took a while, but after insisting that I never agreed to nor was notified of any conditions to subscribe to the HD package, the CSR read the log made when I originally ordered the 811. There was, of course, no record of Dish notifying me of that condition - although there was a record that they notified me that I needed to be subscribed to at least Am Choice Top 150. Apparently the CSR spoke to two people on a "support team" (a team apparently responsible for handling promotions) and neither would allow removing the HD package. Their reason was the discounts I had already been given, including the $149 price of the 811 and a $75 discount for delayed installation. In my opinion these discounts are independent of the issue. The issue is that they are charging me for a service that I did not order. I got the $149 price because I am an "exclusive" subscriber. I got the $75 discount because I was unhappy with the delayed installation and the poor handling of the delayed installation. These are independent of the issue.

Even though I remain very displeased, I don't think it would be worth my time to pursue this with customer service again. It's l like talking to a brick wall - or worse yet, a cog in a poorly-run bureaucracy.


----------



## Guest

Nyte_eyes said:


> I just got my 811 today....and it has been a rough day...no matter what we do, we cannot get our OTA to cooperate. We went and bought a new antenna, some channels come in but the rest's strength is just all over the place.
> 
> We got our 811 at 10 this morning, it is now 630pm and we just decided to give up. I didnt figure getting the OTA was going to be such a game.
> 
> I dont know if we should take the antenna back and stick with our old one...either way we still cant get all the channels.
> 
> Im wondering if its the 811 doing this? From what my hubby thought he understood, its been said that if you can receive OTA analog channels, you should have no problem getting the OTA digital channels..is this right?
> 
> Thanks for any advice...


Regional reception is very, um, regional

Try to find someone in your area to compare experiences with. Also, have you checked antennaweb.org for the distances and azimuth to the transmitters? Make a stop at avsforums in the Regional forum section. Those people would be the best to discuss any problems with local reception issues.

Good luck.


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## Nyte_eyes

gpflepsen said:


> Regional reception is very, um, regional
> 
> Try to find someone in your area to compare experiences with. Also, have you checked antennaweb.org for the distances and azimuth to the transmitters? Make a stop at avsforums in the Regional forum section. Those people would be the best to discuss any problems with local reception issues.
> 
> Good luck.


Unfortunately I dont have anyone I can compare with. I do know though, that our local towers are within 4 miles from us.


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## HTguy

kstevens said:


> ...2. Watching OTA then switching to the guide, you lose the satellite signal and it takes 5 plus minutes for it to come back. In the mean time you are locked out of both ota and satellite.Ken


This is not a bug. It's an "unadvertised feature" that has been with us since the 1st 8VSB module was put into a Model 6000 and connected to an OTA antenna.

When you sit on an OTA station for a while the 6000/811 loses the EPG. If you hit the Guide button it has to download the EPG Info. Perhaps with the 48 hr EPG in RAM, a feature that is supposed to be in the next SW release scheduled for next week or so, the EPG will be available again instantly.

In the meantime, just use the simple WA that every 6000 user & most 811 users have been doing since day one: type a satellite ch# into the keypad for a network that you know & love; i.e., 110 FOOD or 9421 DISCHD. The channel will appear instantly and the EPG will refresh.

If you don't know any ch#s just use the Browse funtion (>) or manually go (/\) or (\/).

It really isn't that big of a deal.

(BTW, it doesn't take 5 whole minutes to restore the guide anyway. Time it sometime.)


----------



## Guest

Are you using a UHF antenna? Most digital transmissions are in the UHF range. A simple loop antenna might be plagued with ghost problems. What type of antenna are you using? What type did you have? How is it mounted?


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## Nyte_eyes

gpflepsen said:


> Are you using a UHF antenna? Most digital transmissions are in the UHF range. A simple loop antenna might be plagued with ghost problems. What type of antenna are you using? What type did you have? How is it mounted?


Not sure if this was directed at me but ours is a UHF/Vhf/HD antenna that we bought yesterday.

Initially we tried using the terk thats mounted to our dish and then we tried the standard rabbit ears and the old amplified antenna we already had.

Then we went and got one at radio shack. We can now get all but 2 of the OTA stations..

The problem is we are in an apartment so we cant put a big antenna up outside it has to be an indoor type.

We are going to try more adjustments later tonight.


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## dkoford

I've had my 811 for all of four days and I have a couple of questions: 1) Is there any way I can use the Dish remote to switch from S-video to component video inputs? There is a button on the 811 remote for sd/hd input that is very cute but does absolutely nothing, so I have to switch back to my TV remote to change inputs, which is a pain. 2) Can I use a Tivo box on the same TV as my 811? I know the 921 is coming but who knows how long that will be.


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## kstevens

dkoford said:


> I've had my 811 for all of four days and I have a couple of questions: 1) Is there any way I can use the Dish remote to switch from S-video to component video inputs? There is a button on the 811 remote for sd/hd input that is very cute but does absolutely nothing, so I have to switch back to my TV remote to change inputs, which is a pain. 2) Can I use a Tivo box on the same TV as my 811? I know the 921 is coming but who knows how long that will be.


The svideo and component video are always active on the 811. The sd/hd button does nothing.

Ken


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## JohnMI

dkoford said:


> I know the 921 is coming but who knows how long that will be.


Um, it's out. Backordered and a bit hard to get -- but it is released and people have them. I'm waiting for mine now... 

- John...


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## shivane

dkoford said:


> I've had my 811 for all of four days and I have a couple of questions: 1) Is there any way I can use the Dish remote to switch from S-video to component video inputs? There is a button on the 811 remote for sd/hd input that is very cute but does absolutely nothing, so I have to switch back to my TV remote to change inputs, which is a pain. 2) Can I use a Tivo box on the same TV as my 811? I know the 921 is coming but who knows how long that will be.


I think Kstevens may have misunderstood the question.

To answer your first question (if i understand what you are asking), the SD/HD button works as a TV/Video button when in TV or VCR mode. So if you program your Dish remote to control your TV, you should be able to use the SD/HD button to cycle through the various video inputs on your TV (when the remote is in TV mode). This button, however, does notihng for the 811 when in SAT mode. Hope that helps.


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## five0_4tluv

i ran through the scan an no luck. anyone know a code or got this to work.. STR-DE895s.

thanks


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## garypen

five0_4tluv said:


> i ran through the scan an no luck. anyone know a code or got this to work.. STR-DE895s.
> 
> thanks


The newer Sony models use a new Sony remote standard called AV2. Most universal remotes won't work with new Sony receivers, until the reciever is switched to the older AV1 standard. I don't know why Sony did this, except to make it hard to use non-Sony brand remotes. It's really a PITA, and is not properly documented in the Sony manuals.

To switch your DE895 receiver to AV1:
1. Turn off receiver.
2. Hold down ENTER and press I/O switch to turn on receiver. COM MODE (AVX) appears in the display. Each time you repeat the procedure, the display changes from from AV1 to AV2 or from AV2 to AV1.

The Sony remote must be set to AV1, in order to work with the receiver set to AV1:
1. Press AV1 or AV2 while pressing the USE MODE.
2. The indicator lights once for AV1 or twice for AV2, then the command mode switches.
3. To check the Command Mode: Press USE MODE. The indicator lights once for AV1, twice for AV2.


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## garypen

HTguy said:


> This is not a bug. It's an "unadvertised feature" that has been with us since the 1st 8VSB module was put into a Model 6000 and connected to an OTA antenna.


A bug by any other name...



> It really isn't that big of a deal.


Sure it is. It's a big PITA. The lockups on "acquiring satellite signal" are an even bigger PITA.



> (BTW, it doesn't take 5 whole minutes to restore the guide anyway. Time it sometime.)


Sometimes, it takes longer. Of course, even a minute is excruciating, when it's supposed to be instantaneous. It's always fun to miss the beginning of a show, as well, because of waiting for the guide. Lots of laughs.


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## jerbroni

Hello all

I've been lurking here for a while now (finally decided to register so I could post  ) and have a quick and easy question for you guys.

I've been on the 'backorder' list for an 811 for about 6 weeks now, and I am getting tired of waiting. I'm considering buying a 6000 with the tuner module 'used' from a buddy who has already received his 811. Would I be better off waiting for the 811 or is the 6000 comparable enough for terrestrial HD and HD satellite broadcasts? Would there be any problem with me activating HD service on someone else's 6000? 

I should also note that I've got a local retailer that has an 811 in stock, but he can't give me the same $149 deal that Dishnetwork will (he wants $399, and my buddy with the 6000 wants $250). What are your opinions on these issues?

Thanks in advance!!!


----------



## JohnMI

From what I'm hearing, they are finally starting to ship 811s. I referred some friends with Club Dish and they were able to put them right on the waiting list with an install date only 2 weeks away. Before, they had to get on a "to be called" list that would be notified when they could just get on the WAITING list to get an install date. heh.

So, if that is accurate, that would mean that the 811 issue is getting better...

That being said... Depending on how much of a "buddy" you are to your buddy -- you could probably buy his stuff for $250 and sell it on EBay for $350 within 24 hours without much hassle. 

- John...


----------



## garypen

jgoggan said:


> From what I'm hearing, they are finally starting to ship 811s. I referred some friends with Club Dish and they were able to put them right on the waiting list with an install date only 2 weeks away. Before, they had to get on a "to be called" list that would be notified when they could just get on the WAITING list to get an install date. heh.
> 
> So, if that is accurate, that would mean that the 811 issue is getting better...
> 
> - John...


So, are the 811's offered for free to Club Dish new subscribers?


----------



## JohnMI

garypen said:


> So, are the 811's offered for free to Club Dish new subscribers?


Yes, with a one-year commitment to at least Top-60 plus a one-year commitment to the HDPak. Plus they pay $24.95 for shipping if they order it direct from Dish (my understanding is that they can do ClubDish through a retailer and avoid the $25). In either case, they get a $50 credit on their first bill. So, it is actually better than free.

That being said, I have 3 ClubDish cards left if anyone wants to sign up! 

- John...


----------



## Guest

So Where's The Software Update!!!!!


----------



## RobH

A few days ago my brother-in-law calls me and says that his guide on his 811 no longer shows the CBSHD channel. So I check mine and sure enough neither does mine. I go into the Check/Switch and it shows 148 with an X while 110 and 119 are fine. I do the test and it finishes and still nothing... the X is still there. I check my other two receivers (510/322) and they are both fine. So I call Dish and they tell me that a Tech has to come out. They say that it's most likely a problem with the switch or Dish. I don't know enough about it but I tell them that my other two receivers are fine so I think that it's an issue with the receiver or something. 

Well today the tech came out and he has been at my house for over 4 hours. The poor guy has replaced the switch and the cable and the receiver. All of this with the same result. He then hooks the receiver up to the tv in my bedroom by running a cable from the living room and the same thing. Anyway... my wife just called me here at work and tells me that the guy has figured out the problem. After talking to a supervisor he was informed that the DishPro switch doesn't work with the 811 and that we need the legacy switch. I have not heard this in any of the threads but I definitely could have missed it. Anyway... I just feel bad that the guy went through all of that just to be told that it was indeed the switch and that they knew of this problem. 

Not sure how long it will take for them to replace the switch since he doesn't have one with him. Can anyone tell me if this is indeed a problem because my brother-in-law is having a tech come out on Saturday and I wouldn't want him to go through the same thing. Thanks


----------



## JohnMI

I have an 811 connected to a SuperDish w/ a DP-34 switch to bring in 121 for my locals. My 811 sees them fine...

- John...


----------



## chenrikson

Someone is VERY confused!! I think the 811 needs a Dishpro switch (I was wrong, it doesn't)-- mine certainly has one -- wasn't it working before?? Sounds like something else to me. Have they moved the feed you want off that satellite?  See message below about this problem!

Craig


----------



## JohnMI

chenrikson said:


> Someone is VERY confused!! I think the 811 needs a Dishpro switch


Actually, no receiver NEEDS a DishPro switch that I know of. DP-compatible receivers will work with DP or legacy switches. Non-DP receivers will work with legacy only. The 811, being DP, will work with either.

But, in any case, I agree that it isn't the problem with his 811. heh.

- John...


----------



## RobH

chenrikson said:


> Someone is VERY confused!! I think the 811 needs a Dishpro switch-- mine certainly has one -- wasn't it working before?? Sounds like something else to me. Have they moved the feed you want off that satellite?
> 
> Craig


You're right about the confused part. I don't know enough about the stuff to really say... but I said the same thing when my wife told me what he said. I told her to tell him that it was working before so what's changed. The fact that it has happened to my brother-in-law at the same time, is another thing. I wish I was home so that I could talk to the tech but all I can do is go by what my wife is telling me and then having her ask questions for me.


----------



## chenrikson

John -- Thanks, I admit to being confused about that. However, there is a long thread over on SatelliteGuys.US about just this problem. Lots of folks have lost the wing birds on their 811's -- all at the same time - about a week ago- has to be software "patch" gone bad.

Craig


----------



## RobH

chenrikson said:


> John -- Thanks, I admit to being confused about that. However, there is a long thread over on SatelliteGuys.US about just this problem. Lots of folks have lost the wing birds on their 811's -- all at the same time - about a week ago- has to be software "patch" gone bad.
> 
> Craig


Thanks Craig. Do you happen to have the URL for the thread?


----------



## JohnMI

Interesting. Is it 148 for all of them? Or just any wing? Are they all using DP-34 switches then? Curious if, for some reason, it works for legacy and not DP for them -- and only a specific bird.

I could see a software bug where the 811 had problems with DP stuff -- but that would be fixed with another software opdate, of course (i.e. Dish wouldn't start telling techs to replace DP equipment with Legacy to resolve it)...

- John...


----------



## chenrikson

RobH said:


> Thanks Craig. Do you happen to have the URL for the thread?


Just do a search on "Satelliteguys". Good bunch of forums, much like this site.

Craig


----------



## chenrikson

jgoggan said:


> Interesting. Is it 148 for all of them? Or just any wing? Are they all using DP-34 switches then? Curious if, for some reason, it works for legacy and not DP for them -- and only a specific bird.
> 
> I could see a software bug where the 811 had problems with DP stuff -- but that would be fixed with another software opdate, of course (i.e. Dish wouldn't start telling techs to replace DP equipment with Legacy to resolve it)...
> 
> - John...


John -- Seems to be 148 -- most of the users seem to be in California. Replacing switches hasn't worked, and neither has replacing 811's. One guy got it back by removing the ground wire from his dish!!!!. I suspect a small software patch or a change in transponder power on the bird.

Craig


----------



## RobH

chenrikson said:


> John -- Seems to be 148 -- most of the users seem to be in California. Replacing switches hasn't worked, and neither has replacing 811's. One guy got it back by removing the ground wire from his dish!!!!. I suspect a small software patch or a change in transponder power on the bird.
> 
> Craig


Well my wife just called and said that the tech returned with the legacy switch, swapped them out and it is now working. Hopefully it remains this way... just weird that they all went out at the same time. Could it be something Dish pushed down to the 811's that caused them to stop seeing 148?


----------



## Broadband Lab Rat

RobH said:


> Well my wife just called and said that the tech returned with the legacy switch, swapped them out and it is now working. Hopefully it remains this way... just weird that they all went out at the same time. Could it be something Dish pushed down to the 811's that caused them to stop seeing 148?


Odd are that the change was on 148 itself ....


----------



## IanF

jgoggan said:


> From what I'm hearing, they are finally starting to ship 811s. I referred some friends with Club Dish and they were able to put them right on the waiting list with an install date only 2 weeks away. Before, they had to get on a "to be called" list that would be notified when they could just get on the WAITING list to get an install date. heh.
> 
> So, if that is accurate, that would mean that the 811 issue is getting better...


Your friends were new subscribers, right? I think the waiting list is still in effect for any existing upgrade subscribers looking for an 811 on the $149/199 upgrade deal. I called 4 times today (who needs Bingo TV when you can play CSR Roulette?) and all 4 CSRs said that I had to stay on the "waiting for pre-order" list and that they had no idea when an upgrade unit would be available.

Two of the CSRs pointed me to Radio Scrap where they said "you can buy a unit from them". I told them I wanted to buy from DISH because of the upgrade pricing for LOYAL, LONG-TERM CUSTOMERS LIKE ME, but that bought me a big bucket of nothing. 

If other current customers have had luck getting an upgrade 811, I'd love to know who you talked to or what you offered them to get it.

It's been so long now, I think I'll be depressed when / if I actually get an 811...


----------



## rmr76

IanF said:


> Your friends were new subscribers, right? I think the waiting list is still in effect for any existing upgrade subscribers looking for an 811 on the $149/199 upgrade deal. I called 4 times today (who needs Bingo TV when you can play CSR Roulette?) and all 4 CSRs said that I had to stay on the "waiting for pre-order" list and that they had no idea when an upgrade unit would be available.
> 
> Two of the CSRs pointed me to Radio Scrap where they said "you can buy a unit from them". I told them I wanted to buy from DISH because of the upgrade pricing for LOYAL, LONG-TERM CUSTOMERS LIKE ME, but that bought me a big bucket of nothing.
> 
> If other current customers have had luck getting an upgrade 811, I'd love to know who you talked to or what you offered them to get it.
> 
> It's been so long now, I think I'll be depressed when / if I actually get an 811...


We will see. I've been on the list since Jan 16, but I got a call last Saturday saying an installer in my area (DFW) could install an 811 for me on 3/7. I was given the $199 deal as I'm not exlcusive. The only other thing I did was contact my local retailer I originally purchased from 2.5 years ago. He knew I was irritated that he (or Dish) couldn't get me an 811. Maybe he complained enough to free up some 811's for the DFW area? I don't know, but I'm starting to wonder if 811 upgrade availability may have to do with where you live, as it seems like people are having different luck depending on where they live.


----------



## waltinvt

Forgive me, I know this is a change in topic but I'm new here and can't figure out the proceddure for starting a new thread.

I would title it "Who's going to win the HD programming war?"

IMHO the provider that's going to win the HD programming war is the provider that recognizes that one of the most aggravating things to an HD viewer right now is having to watch a 4:3 picture on their expensive new widescreen monitor. 

The company that first provides some dedicated, decent widescreen only channels is the one that's going to get and keep most of the viewers that are waiting for more HD channels. 

Sure, a better HD selection would top that but that's not going to happen to any great degree for a while for a number of reasons. I believe the lead will slip back and forth as one occasionally adds a new HD station but barring any new technology, it's going to be a slow proccess with no big gains by any one provider. 

I for one, would be more willing to ride it out with the company that increases my viewing pleasure in the mean time by providing a way to watch more in decent widescreen, even if it's only SD.

A couple of letterbox only movie channels would be a good start, followed by a dedicated widescreen "events" channel.

Anyone with a widescreen tv that has watched a letterbox PPV recently already knows what I'm talking about. Now I'm not a techie, but I've been told that it doesn't take any more bandwidth to send out widescreen programming, except that in that it requires a seperate station. Maybe I'm naive but I think there's a good and growing market for that right now, especially as consumers but new tvs over the next months.
Walt


----------



## chenrikson

waltinvt said:


> Forgive me, I know this is a change in topic but I'm new here and can't figure out the proceddure for starting a new thread.
> 
> Walt -- On the first page of each forum there is a "New Topic" key.
> 
> Craig


----------



## garypen

waltinvt said:


> IMHO the provider that's going to win the HD programming war is the provider that recognizes that one of the most aggravating things to an HD viewer right now is having to watch a 4:3 picture on their expensive new widescreen monitor.
> 
> Walt


That's one of the "bugs" of the 811. Because most HDTV's "zoom/wide/full" feature is disabled when using an HD input, such as DVI or component, the 4:3 programming from the 811 can only be seen at 4:3. The 811 itself needs a proper "zoom" feature, so that the image can be re-sized by the 811 before it reaches the TV.

Of course, if you're using a non-HD input on your HDTV, you can use the TV's "zoom" settings to resize the image. You might consider that for SD programming. Of course, you'll have to wait until they fix another bug, the dark picture from the SD outputs.


----------



## waltinvt

garypen said:


> That's one of the "bugs" of the 811. Because most HDTV's "zoom/wide/full" feature is disabled when using an HD input, such as DVI or component, the 4:3 programming from the 811 can only be seen at 4:3. The 811 itself needs a proper "zoom" feature, so that the image can be re-sized by the 811 before it reaches the TV.
> 
> Of course, if you're using a non-HD input on your HDTV, you can use the TV's "zoom" settings to resize the image. You might consider that for SD programming. Of course, you'll have to wait until they fix another bug, the dark picture from the SD outputs.


Actually the point of my post wasn't about adjusting for the 4:3 signal - I use my 508 into the tvs S-Vid and put it in "Cinerama" mode. It works fine (much better than the 811) as an acceptable alternative.

The point I was really trying to make with the post is that most of us with widescreen tvs really would prefer NOT to have to adjust the signal to fit but would rather have a decent source of letterbox programming.

I believe there is a real market for dedicated widescreen channels right now. A few that run nothing but letterbox format movies and a maybe a few that run a little of everything. I for one would be willing to pay for a programming package that provided a tier of widescreen only channels.

I even speculate something like the "Widescreen Mirror Network", "WMN": A channel that provided a service to other networks by mirroring their programming in a widescreen format when its available. Channels could bid for time slots. I don't know, maybe I'm all wet but I really think it could take off.
Walt


----------



## waltinvt

chenrikson said:


> waltinvt said:
> 
> 
> 
> Forgive me, I know this is a change in topic but I'm new here and can't figure out the proceddure for starting a new thread.
> 
> Walt -- On the first page of each forum there is a "New Topic" key.
> 
> Craig
> 
> 
> 
> I saw that "thread / new thread" thing but when I tried to use it I was sent to a screen that said I "didn't have that privledge". I'm new to this list, so maybe I'm on a probationary period or something.
> Walt
Click to expand...


----------



## chenrikson

waltinvt said:


> I saw that "thread / new thread" thing but when I tried to use it I was sent to a screen that said I "didn't have that privledge". I'm new to this list, so maybe I'm on a probationary period or something.
> Walt


Walt -- Have you registered? - I would guess so as you are allowed to post, but you might check out the parameters of your registration.

Craig


----------



## Guest

garypen said:


> That's one of the "bugs" of the 811. Because most HDTV's "zoom/wide/full" feature is disabled when using an HD input, such as DVI or component, the 4:3 programming from the 811 can only be seen at 4:3. The 811 itself needs a proper "zoom" feature, so that the image can be re-sized by the 811 before it reaches the TV.


The 811 does have a zoom feature. Use the * button on the remote to stretch or zoom the 4x3 picture or letter boxed 4x3 picture to fill the 16x9 screen. This works on the HD outputs, but not on the SD.


----------



## jesskristn

have had the 811 for about 2 weeks and am seeing several of the issues identified in this thread. Being somewhat new to this, how does one identify the version of software and/or firmware installed on my 811. Also, is there any way to completely re-install the software?? confused and amazed!!!


----------



## garypen

gpflepsen said:


> The 811 does have a zoom feature. Use the * button on the remote to stretch or zoom the 4x3 picture or letter boxed 4x3 picture to fill the 16x9 screen. This works on the HD outputs, but not on the SD.


Son of a b*tch!!!! Thanks! Works like a charm. I'm forever grateful about this excellent tip. I feel like an idiot for not knowing it was there.

Is that a documented feature? I hadn't seen it anywhere. Plus, I've seen a number of posts wherein people complained about the lack of this feature.


----------



## Guest

garypen said:


> Son of a b*tch!!!! Thanks! Works like a charm. I'm forever grateful about this excellent tip. I feel like an idiot for not knowing it was there.
> 
> Is that a documented feature? I hadn't seen it anywhere. Plus, I've seen a number of posts wherein people complained about the lack of this feature.


Page 18 in the 811 owners manual. The lising is Format/Star Button.


----------



## garypen

gpflepsen said:


> Page 18 in the 811 owners manual. The lising is Format/Star Button.


Owners manual? I wondered what those things were for. I always thought they were some kind of packing material.


----------



## Broadband Lab Rat

garypen said:


> Owners manual? I wondered what those things were for. I always thought they were some kind of packing material.


LOL... It also has the word "Format" printed on the remote above the * button for those of us who don't read the manual...


----------



## garypen

Broadband Lab Rat said:


> LOL... It also has the word "Format" printed on the remote above the * button for those of us who don't read the manual...


Good golly miss Molly, you're right!!! Since I don't use the platinum (colored plastic) remote, I didn't see it. I use one o' them universal learning dealies.

Of course, now that I think about it, the platinum (colored plastic) remote can probably control all the same components. I may switch to it, as the "format" signal seems to be UHF instead of IR, and my learning remote can only learn IR.


----------



## emkay

When I turn on closed captioning during a SD satellite broadcast, the captioning appears below the edge of my screen. Not sure if it matters, but I'm using component video. Has anyone else had this problem or know of a solution?


----------



## mica618

*Is anyone still having problems with the sound? im using the rca outputs from the 811 to the rca inputs on my sony receiver and im not getting 5.1 surround sound. Im doing the same with my directv receiver and the surround works perfect.*


----------



## Foxbat

mica618 said:


> Is anyone still having problems with the sound? im using the rca outputs from the 811 to the rca inputs on my sony receiver and im not getting 5.1 surround sound. Im doing the same with my directv receiver and the surround works perfect.


I don't have my 811 yet, but I can tell you that unless you're using the Digital Dolby output from the 811 to your Sony, you won't get DD 5.1. The best you can do would be Dolby ProLogic from the analog stereo.


----------



## mica618

Foxbat said:


> I don't have my 811 yet, but I can tell you that unless you're using the Digital Dolby output from the 811 to your Sony, you won't get DD 5.1. The best you can do would be Dolby ProLogic from the analog stereo.


Sorry but let me explain this better- my stereo doesnt have an optical out so all im wanting is the dolby prologic but the sound is very very low to the back channels and i have to put the volume on my sony receiver up to 20 with the 811, but if i switch to the directv i get the same sound volume at 12. the sound from the 811 has to be turned way up and the rear speakers sound horrible. Well i hope i explained that a little better. This is my second 811 this week as my first one just quit after 1 day.


----------



## kstevens

mica618 said:


> Sorry but let me explain this better- my stereo doesnt have an optical out so all im wanting is the dolby prologic but the sound is very very low to the back channels and i have to put the volume on my sony receiver up to 20 with the 811, but if i switch to the directv i get the same sound volume at 12. the sound from the 811 has to be turned way up and the rear speakers sound horrible. Well i hope i explained that a little better. This is my second 811 this week as my first one just quit after 1 day.


I have my 811 set up to my Pioneer elite receiver with 7.1 sound and have no problems with back 4 speakers. Of course, this is using the digital out from the 811.

Ken


----------



## mica618

Thanks for letting me know. Im getting a new receiver soon so i will try the digital on it and see what happens. Maybe i will have to have dish send me another 811. It will be the third one in less that 2 weeks.


----------



## Bobby94928

garypen said:


> Good golly miss Molly, you're right!!! Since I don't use the platinum (colored plastic) remote, I didn't see it. I use one o' them universal learning dealies.
> 
> Of course, now that I think about it, the platinum (colored plastic) remote can probably control all the same components. I may switch to it, as the "format" signal seems to be UHF instead of IR, and my learning remote can only learn IR.


The receiver will accept UHF and IR. If you have any other Dish remotes, one that is not UHF-Pro, just program the "*" from it to your programmable. It works fine.


----------



## garypen

Bobby94928 said:


> The receiver will accept UHF and IR. If you have any other Dish remotes, one that is not UHF-Pro, just program the "*" from it to your programmable. It works fine.


Obviously the 811 accepts IR and RF. That's not the point. The point is that my learning remote won't learn this "format" button. I am assuming it is because it is an RF command, and the remote only learns IR. The command may actually be IR, not RF, and my current universal just can't handle this particular IR command. 

Have you taught a universal this "*" key? If so, which brand/model? I will be getting a Sony RM-AV3000 soon, so maybe it will be able to learn that command, if it is indeed IR.

BTW, if I don't use the new Dish remote as my universal, why would I want to use an old Dish remote as one?


----------



## Bobby94928

garypen said:


> Obviously the 811 accepts IR and RF. That's not the point. The point is that my learning remote won't learn this "format" button. I am assuming it is because it is an RF command, and the remote only learns IR. The command may actually be IR, not RF, and my current universal just can't handle this particular IR command.
> 
> Have you taught a universal this "*" key? If so, which brand/model? I will be getting a Sony RM-AV3000 soon, so maybe it will be able to learn that command, if it is indeed IR.
> 
> BTW, if I don't use the new Dish remote as my universal, why would I want to use an old Dish remote as one?


What I am saying is, if you have another remote for a DishNetwork receiver, use it to teach your programmable the "*" button. I taught my Sony 3000 the command from a DishNet 6000 remote, but it is just as easily learned from any of their remotes that are not UHF-Pro.


----------



## garypen

Bobby94928 said:


> What I am saying is, if you have another remote for a DishNetwork receiver, use it to teach your programmable the "*" button. I taught my Sony 3000 the command from a DishNet 6000 remote, but it is just as easily learned from any of their remotes that are not UHF-Pro.


I see!!!! That is a brilliant idea. Worked like a charm. (I'm still giddy over finding out about the "format" option in the first place.)


----------



## Nick

Hey garypen,

Dish 811 HDTV Receiver
Sanyo PLC-XP20 Projector
Sony KV30HS510 HDTV
Sony DVP725 DVD Player
Sony STRDA1000ES Receiver
BIC Venturi:
V636 Towers
DV62CLR Center
DV62si Surrounds
DV52si Surrounds

Impressive gear, but I don't really want to look at your extensive equipment list every time I read one of your posts.


----------



## Guest

Hey Nick, turn off the signature view in your personal settings. Problem solved.


----------



## Nick

gpflepsen said:


> Hey Nick, turn off the signature view in your personal settings. Problem solved.


Not solved. I have to keep an eye on Richard King's sig to see who else agrees with him and Bogy's sig to see if he is still afflicting


----------



## garypen

Nick said:


> Not solved. I have to keep an eye on Richard King's sig to see who else agrees with him and Bogy's sig to see if he is still afflicting


Yeah yeah yeah.


----------



## Nick

Hey garypen - great new sig! Now I can relate to everything you say. 

Let's go for a beer! :goodjob:


----------



## garypen

Nick said:


> Hey garypen - great new sig! Now I can relate to everything you say.
> 
> Let's go for a beer! :goodjob:


I see you don't fall for the "Emperor's New Clothes" aura of Monster Cable and the like, either.


----------



## JohnMI

"But the Monster Cables have a more 'warm' sound to them."

:lol: 

Someone said in another thread, that they actually heard a rep telling people that line when trying to get them to buy a Monster brand optical cable. :grin: 

- John...


----------



## garypen

jgoggan said:


> "But the Monster Cables have a more 'warm' sound to them."
> 
> :lol:
> 
> Someone said in another thread, that they actually heard a rep telling people that line when trying to get them to buy a Monster brand optical cable. :grin:
> 
> - John...


Yeah. That warm sound is "cha-ching".


----------



## Guest

Last night, I had the oscars on ABC tuned in OTA HD, and the audio was off from the video. It was terrible!! I tried rebooting the 811 but had no luck. Has anyone experienced this type of issue before? This actually was the first time I tuned into ABC OTA. I have used the WB and CBS OTA HD with no problems. 

Thanks in advance


----------



## Nick

Must have been ABC's "enhanced" tape......................delay


----------



## garypen

BAF said:


> Last night, I had the oscars on ABC tuned in OTA HD, and the audio was off from the video. It was terrible!! I tried rebooting the 811 but had no luck. Has anyone experienced this type of issue before? This actually was the first time I tuned into ABC OTA. I have used the WB and CBS OTA HD with no problems.
> 
> Thanks in advance


I had no problem with the ABC-HD broadcast from KGO7 in San Francisco. It looked AND sounded brilliant, in complete sync. Full Dolby Digital 5.1 surround, too. It sounded like we were in the theater. It may have been your local ABC station's problem.


----------



## luckycat

OK Just got this email reply to my questions to [email protected]. Obviously there are some glitches in their "auto response" system, if that is what they are using, or just cut-n-paste gone awry. Bottom line: New 811 release scheduled for 3/2/2004.

Thanks for your email; Dish Network is aware of the issues with the 811
receiver. Thanks for your email; Dish Network is aware of the issues with
the 811 receiver. We are working hard to fix these issues and will have
fixes for most with our next soft ware release schedule for tomorrow 3/2/04.


----------



## normang

I did not watch all of the Oscar's, but KSTP in Minneapolis on my 811 looked and sounded fine.. There are times when the local affialiate messes things up..


----------



## Guest

I spoke with dish today in a follow up to a letter I wrote shortly after receiving my 811 three months ago.

They immediately offered to credit my account for the 3 months of the $5 per month charge for the additonal receiver charge.

Really all I could have asked for so far. 

Impatiently waiting for fixes...


----------



## Nick

I received the 264 update yesterday (Tuesday) evening around 10pm by switching my 811 off for a few minutes. Even though it was "off", the 811 still displayed a 'receiving update' message on my TV. The upgrade was very fast and now the EPG on my 811 now goes out over 44 hours. Last night when I ran the EPG out to the end, I got exactly 44 hours. Checking the EPG just now, it extends out 46 hours: 8:00am Wed - 6:00am Fri. Also, the PiP is instantly active when I bring up the EGP. Unfortunately, The EPG still displays in 4:3 format on my widescreen. I would like to see this 'stretched' to 16:9.

At present, I am using only component outs/ins to my HD, so I cannot address the S-video dark-screen issue. Previously, when I had S-video connected, the dark screen others were reporting wasn't as pronounced on my set.


----------



## bcw

811 with DP34 still will not recognize148 sat.


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## chenrikson

Does anybody else think that this topic is too big and outdated to be of use anymore? Maybe some serious editing, or the beginning of a new "Official" thread pointing to the next software release??

Craig


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## willy

I agree... 639 posts is too big to be useful IMO.


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## Stranger Monsoon

bcw said:


> 811 with DP34 still will not recognize148 sat.


I lost CBSHD which is carried by the 148 satellite on 3/1. I phoned the E* tech about this problem yesterday, 3/2. They are upgrading/downgrading my DP34 switch to two, I believe he said DP21 switches, on Friday for free. This will supply one switch for each box in my house. This problem you speak of became a known issue on 2/25. Is there any opinions out there about this solution?

*ADVISORY*The above comments do not necessarily reflect the views of the author. The author is prone to disinformation from sources beyond his control.


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## garypen

Stranger Monsoon said:


> I lost CBSHD which is carried by the 148 satellite on 3/1. I phoned the E* tech about this problem yesterday, 3/2. They are upgrading/downgrading my DP34 switch to two, I believe he said DP21 switches, on Friday for free. This will supply one switch for each box in my house. This problem you speak of became a known issue on 2/25. Is there any opinions out there about this solution?
> 
> *ADVISORY*The above comments do not necessarily reflect the views of the author. The author is prone to disinformation from sources beyond his control.


Changing from a DP34 to two DP21's will not work. The 811 doesn't receive 148 correctly when using DishPro switches and LNB's. They will probably downgrade your system to Legacy switches and LNB's. That supposedly works.

I chose to decline the downgrade for two reasons:
1. It's a _downgrade_.
2. The cable run to my 2nd receiver is probably too long for Legacy.

I will continue to use OTA for CBS-HD and my locals, until they figure out a _proper_ fix.


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## bcw

I don't see going to legacy as a downgrade, just a different system. It does need more cables from the LNBF's to the switch(s) and power inserter(s). For the 811 I went from legacy LNBFs and an SW64 to DP LNBFs and 2 DP34's. Will be going back to legacy with 2 SW64's.
When DNSC 'installed' the 811 I really wanted another SW64 instead of the DP34's but they didn't have all the bits and pieces (Feed thru loads and splitters).


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## mike201049

Hello Guys I have a question.... I have a 510 and I am wondering if I get an 811 can i use only one satellite feed to connect to the 811 then feed the signal thru my 510 and be able to see the hd channels while still being able to use the features on the 510?


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## kstevens

No go, you will need a separate feed for each receiver.


Ken


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## Stranger Monsoon

garypen said:


> Changing from a DP34 to two DP21's will not work. The 811 doesn't receive 148 correctly when using DishPro switches and LNB's. They will probably downgrade your system to Legacy switches and LNB's. That supposedly works.
> 
> I chose to decline the downgrade for two reasons:
> 1. It's a _downgrade_.
> 2. The cable run to my 2nd receiver is probably too long for Legacy.
> 
> I will continue to use OTA for CBS-HD and my locals, until they figure out a _proper_ fix.


Indeed the CSR said it was a Legacy switch. I need to run about 25' from the switch to my second box. I am unable to get CBS-HD via OTA. Would you still decline this up/downgrade?



bcw said:


> I don't see going to legacy as a downgrade, just a different system. It does need more cables from the LNBF's to the switch(s) and power inserter(s). For the 811 I went from legacy LNBFs and an SW64 to DP LNBFs and 2 DP34's. Will be going back to legacy with 2 SW64's.
> When DNSC 'installed' the 811 I really wanted another SW64 instead of the DP34's but they didn't have all the bits and pieces (Feed thru loads and splitters).


Should I request a different install than the two DP21 switches I've been offered? Think they will let me keep the DP34? Even if I pay for it?

Thanks.....SM


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## bcw

Dan from DNSC or whatever their name is now just left, pulled dishpro out and now have 2 SW64's instead of 2 dp34's. (changed back to legacy lnbf's also). 811 now sees the 148 sat. Also don't need the legacy adapter for the 6000.
921, 811, 6000, and 508. All working.


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## Crumb_Snatcher

just got my 264 update too. VERY VERY happy to report that the channel 1.1 issue for the 811 receiver has been fixed. A big thanks to DISH for fixing that issue rather than have the end user wait for the stubborn ass local stations to remap their channels. This was probably the biggest issue for me surrounding the 811 receiver. As far as I'm concerned, this receiver is pretty solid now that channel 1 has been programmed into the program guide be available for local channel viewing. Just in time for March Madness. My local CBS affiliate is on channel 1.1. Thank goodness Dish came through. I no longer have to borrow an OTA receiver from the local circuit city for the final four. The EPG is also much longer and the pip in the program guide now works all the time. This is AWESOME.


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## jdolby

Just a heads up. My local DC channels at 8000 and up are now mapped to the lower #'s. Channel 4, 5, 7, 9 etc.

Jd

On the 811


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## Guest

I could use some guidance on how to get full screen SD channels on my Pansonic CT-36HL43 HDTV with my Dish 811.

My Panasonic has 4:3 aspect ratio
I have the 811 set to 16:9, 1080i

Here's what I get:

Component from 811
HD Channels: 16:9, screen full across, black bars top and bottom
SD Channels: 4:3 box, black bars on top and bottom and sides

I want screen SD, not this little cropped box. The only way I get SD channels to full screen is to change the 811 to 4x3 1 or 4x3 2 and put it on 480 resolution.

How can I fix this? I've tried making a second connection using an SD cable and then using the TV/Video button on the remote to switch to that SD input instead of the component cables (components are on Component 1, SD is on Video 1). But when I do this the SD channels look too dark and the picture is not as good as when I use the Component cables in 16:9 1080i.

Ideas? I spent a couple of hours looking through this board and did some experimenting but I need some more direct guidance.



Nick said:


> What is the aspect ratio of your tv and what inputs are you using?
> 
> I get the following on my 16:9 widescreen Panny:
> 
> Component Input from 811
> HD channels - 16:9, screen filled, no tv aspect control
> SD channels - 4:3, 811's black bars on sides, no tv aspect control
> 
> S-Video Input from 811
> HD channels - 811's black bars top & bottom, except in tv's zoom mode, full tv aspect control
> SD channels - no black bars, tv's gray bars on tv's 4:3 mode, full tv aspect control


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## Bama Mac

When viewing SD material through component or DVI connection you can use the (*)star/astrick button on the 811 remote to change the picture modes. The different pic modes for the 811 are Normal, Gray Bars, Stretch, Partial Zoom, and Full Zoom I believe that is all.

Now if you are viewing SD material through s-video or composite then you can not change the pic mode with the 811. You will have to change it with your TV.


At least this is how it is with my 811 and Sony 51" WS.


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## dbarrycoyle

Got a new Dish 811 HD receiver, awesome. Got a new Terk 55 HD antenna. Also got a pair of 2 GHz splitters, new RG6 cable, snap and seal connectors, the schmeel. 

Nothing....

The 811 can't see any off air digital nor analog signal. I have antenna and dish near each other so the lines to the 811 are coupled together just after the multidish switch, single line goes into the house and behind the 811, I unsplit with the same 2 GHz splitter. This worked fine with cable TV , but not now. Is the digial off air signal also in the 2 GHz range? Do I have to separate in frequency, or just use a power splitter? Since there's no signal whatsoever, I have a feeling I'm doing something stupid.

Any ideas?


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## Guest

you need a diplexor, not splitters.


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## SimpleSimon

dbarrycoyle said:


> Got a new Dish 811 HD receiver, awesome. Got a new Terk 55 HD antenna. Also got a pair of 2 GHz splitters, new RG6 cable, snap and seal connectors, the schmeel.
> 
> Nothing....
> 
> The 811 can't see any off air digital nor analog signal. I have antenna and dish near each other so the lines to the 811 are coupled together just after the multidish switch, single line goes into the house and behind the 811, I unsplit with the same 2 GHz splitter. This worked fine with cable TV , but not now. Is the digial off air signal also in the 2 GHz range? Do I have to separate in frequency, or just use a power splitter? Since there's no signal whatsoever, I have a feeling I'm doing something stupid.
> 
> Any ideas?


Considering that OTA and cable use many of the same frequencies, I'm quite suprised that it worked before.

However, the prior poster is right - you must use diplexers of the appropriate frequency ranges to carry OTA and satellite on the same wire. One port needs to be in the 0-850MHz or 0-900MHz range, the other must be 950-2150MHz (assuming you have DishPro equipment - you can use 950-1500 if you have Legacy gear).


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## Paul Brians

When I first got my 811 a month ago, I found that it could not automatically start my VCR recording as my old 4000 could, even after I set the units to talk to each other (I can turn the VCR on and off with the 811 remote, manually). When I called Dish, they told me this was a known issue which would be fixed in a forthcoming software upgrade. Still waiting.

More seriously, if the 811 was powered off, any programmed timer would cause it to kick on for just five seconds, and then shut itself off again! This they hadn't heard of, but also said it was a software problem. Solution: leave the 811 turned on any time I have a timer pending. It reliably switches channels if it's already on in response to timers I've set.


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## Paul Brians

Paul Brians said:


> When I first got my 811 a month ago, I found that it could not automatically start my VCR recording as my old 4000 could, even after I set the units to talk to each other (I can turn the VCR on and off with the 811 remote, manually). When I called Dish, they told me this was a known issue which would be fixed in a forthcoming software upgrade. Still waiting.
> 
> More seriously, if the 811 was powered off, any programmed timer would cause it to kick on for just five seconds, and then shut itself off again! This they hadn't heard of, but also said it was a software problem. Solution: leave the 811 turned on any time I have a timer pending. It reliably switches channels if it's already on in response to timers I've set.


 I should have mentioned that after a mid-June software upgrade, the 811 now no longer switches on for even 5 seconds if a timer is set. Timers work only if the 811 is left on.


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