# Split dual cables?



## bhanks (Jun 8, 2006)

I have an R-15 500 DVR plus with line 1 and 2 both engaged.
I also have my old Tivo on one separate single line.
My question is: Is it possible to split lines 1 and 2 and run both
DVR's at the same time, accessing all 4 channels?

Thanks,

Bill H


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## Clemsole (Sep 8, 2005)

no


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## jdspencer (Nov 8, 2003)

Clemsole said:


> no


That's a wrong answer. You can add a 2x4 multiwitch to the two lines to create additional outputs for other receivers. To give a more complete answer we need to know what type dish you have?


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## bhanks (Jun 8, 2006)

jdspencer said:


> That's a wrong answer. You can add a 2x4 multiwitch to the two lines to create additional outputs for other receivers. To give a more complete answer we need to know what type dish you have?


Thank you jd for the reply: type dish is: OVAL, 3 LNBs. 
I appreciate your help...

Bill H


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## Kevin Dupuy (Nov 29, 2006)

bhanks said:


> Thank you jd for the reply: type dish is: OVAL, 3 LNBs.
> I appreciate your help...
> 
> Bill H


I believe so, then.


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## Cerus (Feb 8, 2007)

jdspencer said:


> That's a wrong answer. You can add a 2x4 multiwitch to the two lines to create additional outputs for other receivers. To give a more complete answer we need to know what type dish you have?


Actually that is a correct answer to the OP's question. He wanted to know if he could split lines 1 and 2 and have all four channels. The answer is no, you cannot use a splitter to create two separate lines. A multi-switch is not a splitter...it's a multi-switch, a very different piece of hardware.

Depending on your wiring and how everything is hooked up, you have a couple options. On a 3-LNB dish you should have four lines coming into your home. You can have the four lines coming into a central location and then use a 4x8 multi switch. A 2x4 won't work since you need to have all four input lines connected in order to access all the slots.

The 4x8 would also allow you to add more receivers down the line if need be. On a 4x8 switch there are 4 input lines (13v, 18v, 13v, 18v) and 8 output lines. The four lines from the dish would connect to each of the 13v, 18v, 13 v and 18v connections (one in each, doesn't matter which one goes to which) and then four lines running out of the multi switches outputs, two to each receiver. It doesn't matter which lines are connected to which port as long as all four inputs and four outputs are connected individually.

You would then need those four outputs going to each room where your DVR's are located. You cannot split the lines, each receiver needs two separate lines. If your rooms are already wired up for two connections (and you should already have four lines coming in from the dish) then all you need to do is add the switch.

The other (less neat) option is to have to four lines connected directly to each receiver by going from the dish, around your house and through the wall where the DVR's are located. It's not as neat and tidy as wall fished lines inside your home but it can be a much easier option if you'll need to fish any lines. The cost of the multi switches can be a bit high but you should be able to get that from DirecTV for free.

My system consists of a 3-LNB dish, two DVRs and one standard receiver. Four lines come in through the attic and are then connected to a 4x8 switch. 5 lines are connected to the outputs, two to each of the two DVRs and one to the standard receiver. I went for the cleaner wall fish option and fished 5 brand new lines to the three rooms. The multi switch is powered (better than unpowered IMO) and simply connects via a standard outlet and a coax connection. For what you're wanting, your setup would be the same aside from the third receiver.

It's pretty simple to do provided you already have the needed lines coming in from your dish. If you go the powered switch route and do it yourself, make sure you have all your receivers unplugged when you make all the connections. The last thing you should do is plug in and power on the switch. Otherwise you could end up frying some expensive equipment.


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## bhanks (Jun 8, 2006)

Cerus said:


> Actually that is a correct answer to the OP's question. He wanted to know if he could split lines 1 and 2 and have all four channels. The answer is no, you cannot use a splitter to create two separate lines. A multi-switch is not a splitter...it's a multi-switch, a very different piece of hardware.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## rlambert7 (Feb 7, 2006)

bhanks said:


> Wow, that's alot to digest. My dish has only 3 lines coming into the house.
> There are two cables melded together which are line 1 and 2 which go to
> the R-15 and one line which went to the D10 in the other room. When I got
> the R-15 it replaced the tivo DVR and the tivo replaced the D-10 (single line)


Note - When you "Reply with Quote" to a post, be careful not to chop off the "/QUOTE" inside the square brackets at the end of the post to which you are replying. You might still be able to "fix" your last post by going back, and editting it.

Are the "cables melded together" two cables under one coating of insulation? If so, that's merely for convenience (since so often two cables are run from one point to another). If you want to do what you asked about in your original post, just follow what the other posters have recommended.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

jdspencer said:


> That's a wrong answer.


Actually, it was the right answer. You must have at least as many wires going into a switch as you have LNBs.


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## Cerus (Feb 8, 2007)

bhanks said:


> Cerus said:
> 
> 
> > Actually that is a correct answer to the OP's question. He wanted to know if he could split lines 1 and 2 and have all four channels. The answer is no, you cannot use a splitter to create two separate lines. A multi-switch is not a splitter...it's a multi-switch, a very different piece of hardware.
> ...


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Cerus said:


> It might all seem like a lot but it's really easy to do and everyone here seems more than willing to help others out.


"Easy" is in the eye of the beholder. Many aren't up to the task of terminating a coaxial cable or even knowing what kind of cable to buy.

Rather than saying it is "easy", I ask some pointed questions to see if they know anything about their setup. If they don't know much about the setup and seem unable to find out, I refer them to a local professional installer.

With the advent of OTA having to move off of the multiswitch, everything got a whole lot more difficult; especially for those with HD DVRs.

The easy answer to the question of turning three cables into four is to add a fourth cable. If you can't do that, you need to seek out someone who can do it for you.


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## Cerus (Feb 8, 2007)

harsh said:


> "Easy" is in the eye of the beholder. Many aren't up to the task of terminating a coaxial cable or even knowing what kind of cable to buy.
> 
> Rather than saying it is "easy", I ask some pointed questions to see if they know anything about their setup. If they don't know much about the setup and seem unable to find out, I refer them to a local professional installer.
> 
> ...


True...bad choice of words. I think simple would be a better way to describe it. Just maybe a bit daunting for someone who isn't familiar with running coax. But with a little more info from the OP on his setup and situation, I'm sure we can help him figure out a way for him to get his second line hooked up.


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## bhanks (Jun 8, 2006)

Cerus said:


> bhanks said:
> 
> 
> > It's actually pretty simple even though I failed to make it sound as such. It's odd that your original installer didn't go ahead and run all four lines from your dish in case you needed it in the future. I'm pretty sure you could add a fourth line to your dish and run it into your house along side the existing lines with little trouble.
> ...


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## Cerus (Feb 8, 2007)

bhanks said:


> Cirus:
> My 3 cables all come from the dish through the roof directly to one splitter.
> two cables (lines 1&2) go through the the wall to the R-15 unit and the third
> cable goes through the same wall plate to the other side of the wall to service
> ...


Makes perfect sense and it sounds like you can add the fourth line with little trouble unless you have an enormous house or no attic/basement access. From your description, I gather your two receivers are in adjacent rooms with one line going to one side of the interior wall, the other two lines going to the other.

My next question is, can you gain access to your dish in order to bring the fourth line in to where the current splitter is and are you comfortable with doing so? Can you run a fourth line from your splitter to the Tivo receiver?

If so then all you need to do is estimate the amount of coax you need and head over to Lowes, Home Depot etc. You'll need RG6 grade coax, digital F-Connectors and a 4x8 multi switch if thats not already whats in place. Lowes sells RG6 by the foot for about 10 cents per foot and a package of F-Connectors is about $5. You'll need two connectors for the new line coming in from the dish and two more for the line going from the switch to the Tivo's wall plate. Obviously a small length of coax to go from the plate to the Tivo itself but you can pick up a pre-made digital coax cable if you don't already have one. You didn't mention if that wall plate was a double but those can be had at Lowes for a couple bucks.

One thing about the digital grade connectors is that they are crimp ons and you would need the crimp tool (about $15 at Lowes) to put them on. They do make screw ons but they aren't the best thing to use and can cause picture problems. You can always return the tool after you're done if you don't want to spend a large amount of money to do this.

The only part I can't guess on is how difficult or easy it will be for you to run the two lines. If you have attic access then it should be pretty straightforward and just a matter of pulling the new line through along side the existing ones. The line needed from the switch to the Tivo could be harder or easier depending on how far it is from the switch and if you'd have to do any wall fishes. Wall fishes are actually pretty easy if you have a fish tape ($15 for a basic one, also returnable)

If your lines go through the attic then all you would have to do is fish the tape down in the wall next to the existing line, pull it through where your wall plate is, tape the new coax to it and then pull it back up. A basement is even easier since line fishing would be minimal. The end cost for non-returnable items should be minimal. I ran 176 ft of new coax for two DVRs for about $30. My 4x8 switch was provided by the installer.

The first thing I would do is call DTV and let them know what you are wanting to do and if their installers could do it for you and bring out a switch. The only thing they won't do for free on a new install is fish lines through walls. That's considered a custom install. But they do run lines from the dish to the receivers either directly to them or to a central area with a multi switch. Now being an existing customer I cannot tell you if they would setup your Tivo for dual tuners for free or not. I would think they would at least get you a multi switch. A quick call to them should sort all that out and then you can decide from there.

*Edit* With a quick search I found the exact multi switch I have on my system. It's DTV approved and is $39.95 (free shipping) although I imagine you can find it a bit cheaper. It's a powered switch so you would have to have an outlet near where it will be located. It has a coax jack on the side thats connected to the small power brick directly or through up to 100ft of coax and then gets plugged into the wall. Passive (unpowered) switches do tend to run a bit higher in price but have the added convenience of not requiring power if an outlet isn't handy. Any 4x8 switch will do as long as its DTV approved. The link is http://www.2000networks.com/accessories/switches/multi-switch_4x8.html If DTV wont do any of this for you then you can still get it done yourself for pretty cheap.


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## bhanks (Jun 8, 2006)

[


> QUOTE=Cerus;826085]Makes perfect sense and it sounds like you can add the fourth line with little trouble unless you have an enormous house or no attic/basement access. From your description, I gather your two receivers are in adjacent rooms with one line going to one side of the interior wall, the other two lines going to the other.


Cerus, many thanks for the time and effort you took to answer my question.
It is clear and concise and even this semi-retard may be able to master the
hook up. My greatest challenge will most likely be to "Not fall off the Roof" 
Again, many thanks for your help.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

Cerus said:


> You can always return the tool after you're done if you don't want to spend a large amount of money to do this.


I feel it is unethical, bordering on illegal, to buy something, use it for the purpose for which it was puchased, then return it. What you choose to do in your personal life is somewhat your business, but I don't feel you should advocate the same behavior to others.

Carl


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

bhanks said:


> It is clear and concise and even this semi-retard may be able to master the hook up. My greatest challenge will most likely be to "Not fall off the Roof"


You shouldn't need to go up on the roof. There should be a fourth leg off of that device that you call a "splitter".

Something that I would try if you don't know the routing of the cable to the room is to have someone tug on the receiver end of the cable (after disconnecting it from the receiver) and see if it move freely all the way to the multiswitch end. If it does, you could pull two cables through with the existing cable and be done.

There are some additional tips about pulling cable with cable I can offer if you find that the existing cabling moves freely.


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## bhanks (Jun 8, 2006)

Cerus said:


> > *Edit* With a quick search I found the exact multi switch I have on my system. It's DTV approved and is $39.95 (free shipping) although I imagine you can find it a bit cheaper. It's a powered switch so you would have to have an outlet near where it will be located. It has a coax jack on the side thats connected to the small power brick directly or through up to 100ft of coax and then gets plugged into the wall. Passive (unpowered) switches do tend to run a bit higher in price but have the added convenience of not requiring power if an outlet isn't handy. Any 4x8 switch will do as long as its DTV approved. The link is http://www.2000networks.com/accessories/switches/multi-switch_4x8.html If DTV wont do any of this for you then you can still get it done yourself for pretty cheap.





> You shouldn't need to go up on the roof. There should be a fourth leg off of that device that you call a "splitter".


Thanks Cerus and Harsh:

When I said splitter I should have said Diplexer, (trip to attic) which seems to be
an Eagle Aspen D-2100LX see link to picture: 
So, will I need a different Diplexer or a Splitter?
and the cable in the lower right sends a mirror image of the tv to another set.
The third line from the Dish goes directly to the D-10.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d28/mabhanks/DiplexerToFrom.jpg


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## Cerus (Feb 8, 2007)

While it may not be the most ethical thing do to, it is perfectly legal to return something undamaged, to the place of purchase. It was merely a suggestion to the OP that he did not HAVE to keep the crimper or fish tape if he absolutely did not want to.

Anyways...you will still need to gain access to your dish in order to make this work. To run both receivers and have the 4 tuner ability, you will need all four lines. If you don't, then you wont have access to all the orbital slots and therefore, all channels available. You could use the same connection as the R15 line on the left and simply connect the new line that way but if you have long runs it can affect signal quality.

As for the third TV set, I'm not sure how you could still run that set using a 4x8 switch. You can always get a standard receiver free but you would have to pay the $5 monthly charge for that. I know there is a way to run it using a splitter or diplexer and a 4x8 switch...I just can't think of it at the moment so maybe someone will chime in with an idea.

That part aside, the "easiest" and simplest way to get your R15 and D10 working the way you want would be to use a barrel connector (splicer) but you may get a better signal using a switch. If your signal looks good now then I would say run the new lines, grab a splicer, and hook up the new line that way. Leave the current diplexer in place and just use a barrel connector on the new line from the dish to the new line for the D10. It's basically a direct connection to the D10 from the dish and is the lowest cost way of hooking everything up. Everything will be as it is now but you'll have your fourth line that you need.

If you have a good picture now and don't have any signal issues then I would say to go the route above. It's simple, low cost and it will work. As long as you are comfortable going on to your roof and feel you can get the lines ran without risking your life then from what I can gather so far, all should go well.

Just make sure that any coaxial cable you get is RG6 and not RG59 and that you get digital F-connectors made for RG6 cable. You'll need at least four F-connectors plus a shorter cable to go from the wall plate to the D10.

You may not need a fish tape if the D10s wall plate is on an interior wall. Most houses do not have insulation on interior walls which will make it very simple to fish the new line. Fish tape is needed when it's a complicated fish or there is insulation in the walls. Every house is different but if your D10s line goes through a small hole in the attic then you could use a sturdy piece of string with a weight attached to the end. Provided the hole is big enough, just attach a weight to the string, lower it down next to the existing line and pull the line through that way.


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## bhanks (Jun 8, 2006)

> Anyways...you will still need to gain access to your dish in order to make this work. To run both receivers and have the 4 tuner ability, you will need all four lines. If you don't, then you wont have access to all the orbital slots and therefore, all channels available. You could use the same connection as the R15 line on the left and simply connect the new line that way but if you have long runs it can affect signal quality.


Cerus,
O.K. I think my dull brain is starting to get there. Is this correct? My dish an OVAL, 3 LNBs. has a 4 cable output and I am now using only three. One cable is going to the R-15s Line 1 and one going to line 2 via the Diplexer (see photo)
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d28/mabhanks/DiplexerToFrom.jpg
The third cable is going *directly* to line 1 on the Tivo DVR.
Assuming my dish has a fourth cable output could I repeat he same Diplexer
hook up to the Tivo as the one on the R-15? The same Diplexer is available.
I don't see a problem with running cable to the Tivo, one is already there.
Sorry to bother you again and I hope this made sense.
Thanks again,

Bill Hanks


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## TigersFanJJ (Feb 17, 2006)

What you will have to do is run one more line from the dish to your Dtivo. You *CAN NOT* use a splitter or diplexer to get it to work properly. When harsh posted "that device that you call a splitter", he probably thought you were refering to a multiswitch. A multiswitch takes the 4 outputs coming off your dish and expands those to 8 outputs. So you do not need the m/s to do what you are trying to do.

I'm not sure what you are using the diplexer for there (an antenna maybe?). But whatever it is there for, you should be able to do the same for the tivo.


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## Cerus (Feb 8, 2007)

bhanks said:


> Cerus,
> O.K. I think my dull brain is starting to get there. Is this correct? My dish an OVAL, 3 LNBs. has a 4 cable output and I am now using only three. One cable is going to the R-15s Line 1 and one going to line 2 via the Diplexer (see photo)
> http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d28/mabhanks/DiplexerToFrom.jpg
> The third cable is going *directly* to line 1 on the Tivo DVR.
> ...


No bother at all...I'm just glad the information and tips are helping. You actually don't need to use another diplexer and my guess as to why one is there already is so that your third TV set has a cloned picture of what the R15 is viewing correct?

A multi switch would be nice to have in case you wanted to add more receivers in the future but you don't have to have it. As I explained in my last post, the simplest way to hook everything up is to use a barrel connector. In your picture, the line on the far left that doesn't go through the diplexer is using a barrel connector. It's basically just two coaxial cable jacks stuck together which allows you to splice two cables together by just screwing them on.

You're just duplicating the way the far left R15 line is hooked up. The first thing you'll have to do is to run the fourth (missing) line from the dish to wherever your diplexer is located. Then run another line from where your Tivo is located to the diplexer. Attach F-connectors to both those ends and connect them to a barrel connector. For this setup you'll need a total of four F-connectors (commonly sold in four packs) not counting the length of coax youll need from the wall jack to the Tivo but you can just buy a pre-made length for that. Lowes has digital grade crimp on F-connectors for about $4, made by Phillips and a Phillips crimp tool for about $15. The connectors are identical to what many installers will use.

I'm assuming your Tivo is in a room that just has a single coax jack in which case just pick up a double coax jack, connect the new line to it, put the jack back into the wall, connect a line from it to the Tivo and you're all set. Double coaxial jacks are very cheap and will fit onto any standard size opening. If your current wall jack is a coax/phone line combo, they also sell triples that have all sorts of combinations. You would just need one with two coax jacks and one phone line. Whatever your current wall jack is, just grab one that has one additional coaxial jack and replace the old one.

Barrel connector


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## bhanks (Jun 8, 2006)

Cerus said:


> No bother at all...I'm just glad the information and tips are helping. You actually don't need to use another diplexer and my guess as to why one is there already is so that your third TV set has a cloned picture of what the R15 is viewing correct?
> 
> A multi switch would be nice to have in case you wanted to add more receivers in the future but you don't have to have it. As I explained in my last post, the simplest way to hook everything up is to use a barrel connector. In your picture, the line on the far left that doesn't go through the diplexer is using a barrel connector. It's basically just two coaxial cable jacks stuck together which allows you to splice two cables together by just screwing them on.
> 
> ...


EUREKA! It all makes perfect sense now.:hurah: 
The clone line was really confusing the issue.
Many, many thanks for your help which is most appreciated.
Now for my next problem

Great Forum! Great Help!


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## Cerus (Feb 8, 2007)

bhanks said:


> EUREKA! It all makes perfect sense now.:hurah:
> The clone line was really confusing the issue.
> Many, many thanks for your help which is most appreciated.
> Now for my next problem
> ...


You're welcome...glad I could help. It's great when things finally "click" in your head. I think this setup will be the easiest to do and won't mess up what you already have working. If you have any more questions or run into problems, there are plenty of people here willing to help...including myself.

Running coax (in most situations) isn't all that difficult...mine was a bit of a pain but only because my attic is pretty cramped for a 6'2" person to walk around in :lol: At least after doing this yourself, you'll be more familiar with it and will be able to run more lines in the future if you ever needed them. That saves a lot of money that you'd otherwise have to pay to an installer. I saved several hundreds by running all my lines myself. Plus it offers a certain satisfaction knowing you did it yourself....just be careful when walking in your attic...you don't want to have a Tim "The Tool Man" Taylor incident and go crashing through the ceiling. :grin:


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