# Using existing UHF Remote Wholehouse Antenna Runs for Hopper System?



## FarmerBob (Nov 28, 2002)

Years ago I reran RG6 & 11 to replace my old RG59 system that I have since been using to place UHF Remote antennas all over the house. (example below) The receivers are all in one location in a basement central core and are patched into the RG59 lines and I have great remote reception throughout the house. So can I do this same thing for a Hopper and Two Joeys that will feed my WH modulator system from this same location? OR can I do as I first did and connect them to my hot water heating pipes and more than cover the whole house. I switched to the RG59 from that cuz it was a bit more "confined". I could change channels three houses down. It caused "issues" sometimes.

Any information or assistance will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you . . .
. . . fb


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Check installation diagrams here - you'll find where is RG-6 or RG-59 sufficient.


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## 356B (Oct 11, 2008)

If your are planning to do this again you're going to have to be inventive. 
The threads and the size of the "antenna connection" of Hopper are different then tradition coaxial couplers and connections.
Let me know if you come up with something.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

If you you mean 2.4 GHz antenna for remote control - then yes, the connector is different, by purpose. All other are just standard F-type what used before.


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## 356B (Oct 11, 2008)

P Smith said:


> If you you mean 2.4 GHz antenna for remote control - then yes, the connector is different, by purpose. All other are just standard F-type what used before.


Have you seen the Hopper rear end up close? Like I said, the fitting is different. If you have, what size is it and where can you get the female/male/coupling coaxial type fittings? 
Interestingly in the 138 page Hoppers user guide discusses the 722 way of extending the antenna for better reception. 
I guess the designers changed their minds.


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## FarmerBob (Nov 28, 2002)

356B said:


> If your are planning to do this again you're going to have to be inventive.
> The threads and the size of the "antenna connection" of Hopper are different then tradition coaxial couplers and connections.
> Let me know if you come up with something.


I started this reply hours ago. I hate being on Int'l CTS for the day.

356B, 
Great. Thank you. That's part of what I wanted to hear. This means I have to look to an electronics parts outlet (I miss you RadioShack.com brick and mortar stores) other than HomeDepot. By the pics of these they do look like the type of antenna that are on the backs of routers. If so, I have replaced, broken for new, those kinds of connectors, although, they are somewhat varied in size. You just have to find the correct one, but they are out there to be had and I only need 4 new jacks for the plates and a couple 2.4GHz antennas. OR if I had the correct Male jack that would connect to the back of the Hopper, I could use my existing system? I love experimentation. Sometimes it gets you really cool stuff. Like I did years ago when I connected them to my hot water heat pipes and could change channels from 4 houses away.

And from the link that P Smith submitted, although it did not cover what I was looking for, there were nice large pictures. And the one of the back of the Hopper, I can see a slight difference in the two connectors and think I already have what I need. AND in reading their descriptions I noticed the part regarding not (but you can) being able to have VIP gear in the mix. On page 9 of the "HopperJoeySystem_JobAid" PDF, they show how to put a VIP unit in the mix. Thank you for the pic.

And I trust that since an antenna is an antenna, which is where the second part of my question comes in, will they function as I hope they will with this done? Such as when you extend a WiFi antenna with an extension cable (Linksys, Netgear, Buffalo, Belkin, etc.). So from the replies that are coming in as I write this reply, I see what seems to be the only "hitch". Of which can be easily taken care of. I would trust that Echostar would use readily available parts, not create a specialized something as simple as this?

Thank you 356B and all the others for your replies. I love info, keep it coming.

Thanks and take care all . . .
. . . fb


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## 356B (Oct 11, 2008)

Farmer Bob,
When you find out what size the antenna couple is, can you post what you came up with? 
I don't get out much and internet shopping is more or less what I got.


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## n0qcu (Mar 23, 2002)

The connector is a M10. Good luck trying to find one.


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## 356B (Oct 11, 2008)

n0qcu said:


> The connector is a M10. Good luck trying to find one.


 More info here, http://www.satelliteguys.us/dish-vi...um/257130-tv2-remote-antenna-boost-922-a.html

No luck finding the parts though.


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## FarmerBob (Nov 28, 2002)

356B said:


> Farmer Bob,
> When you find out what size the antenna couple is, can you post what you came up with?
> I don't get out much and internet shopping is more or less what I got.


I will be more than glad to. But in a brainfart that just hit me I thought that I had a Qwest wireless router, that has the same type antenna and I could tell you now. Or compare on a Hopper that would say that a standard 2.4GHz ant would work and thus the standard diameter and thread. But I gave it to a neighbor since I completely dumped Qwest/CenturyStink. Plus I was going to do some online shopping myself to get a connector spec on the 2.4 piece(s).

But I would imagine that, and I assume a bit here due to "corporate variables", as I have said before Echostar not using standard parts would be, well . . . Echostar, THAT any standard 2.4GHz replacement/add-on antenna from online vendors/stores that has have specs listed, should list the connection parameters.

I am having work done this weekend and as of this conversation was planning on asking the tech that is coming out. Hopefully he'll know or can let me touch a Hopper so I can tell. I have many and varied RF connectors that are labeled and if one fits or he knows if a standard replacement antenna will work?, we'll know.

As soon as I know something I will post back. Meanwhile, if anyone else gets here before I can, the info will be greatly appreciated. Personally, although I have made most all provisions to upgrade, I am waiting on OTA to be added. I have no use for this system without OTA. And hopefully this weekend I can find out if it can co-exist with my existing WHE network. That'll be a deal breaker. We've have had WHE since 1993 and it's a way of life for us and the new HAEPro install thing now.

Until . . .
. . . fb

Late Update: n0qucu has posted that it's an M10 connector. I know that number and will see if I can track it down. I'm hope that this is not contrary to my hope that Echostar used standard part.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

BTW: Even if you find the M10 connector for the Hopper antenna, the Joey antennas are internal. I have not seen anyone note that yet in this thread, so I figure it deserves a mention.


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## 356B (Oct 11, 2008)

James Long said:


> BTW: Even if you find the M10 connector for the Hopper antenna, the Joey antennas are internal. I have not seen anyone note that yet in this thread, so I figure it deserves a mention.


True, I have read if you want to extend the Joey a RF extender will work, the reference was to those pyramid shaped things...
I hope we can find the connectors, it would simplify a minor annoyance. :sure:


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

It's a whole assembly: two M10 connectors and a cable in between:


> Use part number 169178, the 10-foot, RG-6 extension cable *assembly* with special M10 connectors


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## FarmerBob (Nov 28, 2002)

P Smith said:


> It's a whole assembly: two M10 connectors and a cable in between:


If that was a link if didn't come through. But I did a quick search and found tons of stuff that leads me to believe I may already have all that I need. We'll see this weekend if the tech has a Hopper that I can try it on.

Also I remember seeing a thread regarding running cabling to sets from remotely placed H&J's (my new term) and it being said that they had no issues with the remotes. All my 2.4GHz cordless phones work great all over my property from a base buried in the basement. So . . . these could also work without any extra effort. But in time I would not be surprised if an extension solution comes up. "I wanted it first!!!"


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Perhaps echostar designed low power transmitters inside of 922/813 and the 32.0 and 40.0 remotes.


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## 356B (Oct 11, 2008)

P Smith said:


> Perhaps echostar designed low power transmitters inside of 922/813 and the 32.0 and 40.0 remotes.


The Hopper/Joey remotes actually work rather well. I had to have a coax extension on the 722k...the Hopper works as well without. 
Just greedy, was curious if an extension similar would up the signal a bit, not a deal breaker.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

356B said:


> The Hopper/Joey remotes actually work rather well. I had to have a coax extension on the 722k...the Hopper works as well without.
> Just greedy, was curious if an extension similar would up the signal a bit, not a deal breaker.


By physics - not, the cable and two more connectors will attenuate the signal. It's just a matter of location the 2G antenna; if you can place it close to the remote, you'll get the advantage.


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## 356B (Oct 11, 2008)

P Smith said:


> By physics - not, the cable and two more connectors will attenuate the signal. It's just a matter of location the 2G antenna; if you can place it close to the remote, you'll get the advantage.


It's alway about location, my wife puts her stuff about it....if it's high she can't.


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## tcatdbs (Jul 10, 2008)

I plan on 1 Hopper + 2 Joeys. Can 1 Joey be put at the wiring distribution closet, with a coax switch (or mirrored)? I have 2 "guest" rooms and would like an easy way to have TV in one or the other (or mirrored). One of the rooms is detached, but only about 40' from the closet. Will the UHF remote go through 2 walls of stucco?


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## 356B (Oct 11, 2008)

tcatdbs said:


> I plan on 1 Hopper + 2 Joeys. Can 1 Joey be put at the wiring distribution closet, with a coax switch (or mirrored)? I have 2 "guest" rooms and would like an easy way to have TV in one or the other (or mirrored). One of the rooms is detached, but only about 40' from the closet. Will the UHF remote go through 2 walls of stucco?


I am in the process of moving my Joey to a more central location because the UHF was intermittent at best, less than 40'. The Joey has a internal antenna, no way I know of to extend the range easily.


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## tcatdbs (Jul 10, 2008)

Thanks. Probably better off just moving the Joey and terminating the un-used branch.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

356B said:


> I am in the process of moving my Joey to a more central location because the UHF was intermittent at best, less than 40'. The Joey has a internal antenna, no way I know of to extend the range easily.


I would gently open it and add a piece of wire (2.4 GHz dipole) outside of the box, if I'm desperate with reception...


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## charlesrshell (Feb 24, 2008)

FarmerBob said:


> Years ago I reran RG6 & 11 to replace my old RG59 system that I have since been using to place UHF Remote antennas all over the house. (example below) The receivers are all in one location in a basement central core and are patched into the RG59 lines and I have great remote reception throughout the house. So can I do this same thing for a Hopper and Two Joeys that will feed my WH modulator system from this same location? OR can I do as I first did and connect them to my hot water heating pipes and more than cover the whole house. I switched to the RG59 from that cuz it was a bit more "confined". I could change channels three houses down. It caused "issues" sometimes.
> 
> Any information or assistance will be greatly appreciated.
> 
> ...


FarmerBob, I like that idea of connecting your UHF remote antennas to hot water heat pipes. How did you do that? Thanks


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## FarmerBob (Nov 28, 2002)

charlesrshell said:


> FarmerBob, I like that idea of connecting your UHF remote antennas to hot water heat pipes. How did you do that? Thanks


A Grounding Clamp . . . Took a length of coax stripped back the ground and, at first just wrapped the copper core around the pipe, then got the clamp to tie it down securely. It's now a real ground using a length of aluminum ground that I got in the initial 1994 DISH DIY Install kit. Yup, still have it. Never needed it. Had everything I needed in stock.

The strange things is that is worked for years, then just stopped. That's when I went to the RG59 and Antennas throughout the house.

When I asked the question if you could do this sort of thing with the Hopper not much was known about the antenna connection on the back of the box. Just the other night I saw an installation brief on the Hopper 2 and they spoke of attenuating the RF Remote signal by using a "store bought" attenuator. I guess they don't supply them anymore. So that tells me that the connection has to be a standard threaded coax. And in the pictures it looked like it.


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## charlesrshell (Feb 24, 2008)

FarmerBob said:


> A Grounding Clamp . . . Took a length of coax stripped back the ground and, at first just wrapped the copper core around the pipe, then got the clamp to tie it down securely. It's now a real ground using a length of aluminum ground that I got in the initial 1994 DISH DIY Install kit. Yup, still have it. Never needed it. Had everything I needed in stock.
> 
> The strange things is that is worked for years, then just stopped. That's when I went to the RG59 and Antennas throughout the house.
> 
> When I asked the question if you could do this sort of thing with the Hopper not much was known about the antenna connection on the back of the box. Just the other night I saw an installation brief on the Hopper 2 and they spoke of attenuating the RF Remote signal by using a "store bought" attenuator. I guess they don't supply them anymore. So that tells me that the connection has to be a standard threaded coax. And in the pictures it looked like it.


Thanks for the info. Wonder why it stopped working! I installed powered amp UHF rabbit ears on my two 722ks and it works great. I don't have a Hopper system yet. Will order in a couple of weeks. Where did you see the installation brief on the Hopper 2? Have you seen this thread? http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/257130-TV2-Remote-Antenna-Boost-on-922


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## FarmerBob (Nov 28, 2002)

charlesrshell said:


> Thanks for the info. Wonder why it stopped working! I installed powered amp UHF rabbit ears on my two 722ks and it works great. I don't have a Hopper system yet. Will order in a couple of weeks. Where did you see the installation brief on the Hopper 2? Have you seen this thread? http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/257130-TV2-Remote-Antenna-Boost-on-922


Yup. Saw your link way back in the beginning when I was doing mental Hopper install plans. Before it was really known how and how far the RF Remotes work. The piece I saw the other morning, 4am, if I can find it I will post a link. But it was a late night/early morning reading fest while waiting on overseas phone calls. I usually remember the gist and not the source.


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## charlesrshell (Feb 24, 2008)

FarmerBob said:


> Yup. Saw your link way back in the beginning when I was doing mental Hopper install plans. Before it was really known how and how far the RF Remotes work. The piece I saw the other morning, 4am, if I can find it I will post a link. But it was a late night/early morning reading fest while waiting on overseas phone calls. I usually remember the gist and not the source.


OK, thanks. Is there a reason to use hot water pipes for the UHF extension?


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

yes: a) it's not grounded (but should, at least in CA we require that by code) and b) it's very long copper rod


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## charlesrshell (Feb 24, 2008)

P Smith said:


> yes: a) it's not grounded (but should, at least in CA we require that by code) and b) it's very long copper rod


OK, thanks.


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## FarmerBob (Nov 28, 2002)

charlesrshell said:


> OK, thanks. Is there a reason to use hot water pipes for the UHF extension?


It's actually a hot water heat pipe. There's at least two finned radiators in every room, if not under all major doorways. In the beginning I could change channels several houses up. And no problem changing channels on the outside TV's. It was great.


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## charlesrshell (Feb 24, 2008)

FarmerBob said:


> It's actually a hot water heat pipe. There's at least two finned radiators in every room, if not under all major doorways. In the beginning I could change channels several houses up. And no problem changing channels on the outside TV's. It was great.


I had a 722k one time UHF got weaker and weaker. Did everything I could think of to get it to work. Finally Dish swapped it out and problem cured. Sometimes the DvR UHF port can go bad too.


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## FarmerBob (Nov 28, 2002)

charlesrshell said:


> I had a 722k one time UHF got weaker and weaker. Did everything I could think of to get it to work. Finally Dish swapped it out and problem cured. Sometimes the DvR UHF port can go bad too.


Makes perfect sense. So now that I think of it, as we got boxes, 722, 325, 512, that worked for a while connectivity dropped. So my current solution somewhat helps with failing hardware. But the hot water heat bit was great. And too easy to do. Too bad it didn't last long. Oh well, I'm set . . . for now.


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## 356B (Oct 11, 2008)

FarmerBob said:


> A Grounding Clamp . . . Took a length of coax stripped back the ground and, at first just wrapped the copper core around the pipe, then got the clamp to tie it down securely. It's now a real ground using a length of aluminum ground that I got in the initial 1994 DISH DIY Install kit. Yup, still have it. Never needed it. Had everything I needed in stock.
> 
> The strange things is that is worked for years, then just stopped. That's when I went to the RG59 and Antennas throughout the house.
> 
> When I asked the question if you could do this sort of thing with the Hopper not much was known about the antenna connection on the back of the box. Just the other night I saw an installation brief on the Hopper 2 and they spoke of attenuating the RF Remote signal by using a "store bought" attenuator. I guess they don't supply them anymore. So that tells me that the connection has to be a standard threaded coax. And in the pictures it looked like it.


Did you ever find a buying source for the M10 connectors?


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Auto shop what fixing imported cars ?


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## 356B (Oct 11, 2008)

P Smith said:


> Auto shop what fixing imported cars ?


And is that suppose to mean?


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

the nut, M10


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## 356B (Oct 11, 2008)

P Smith said:


> the nut, M10


So where does one procure this M10 connector? come on you can do it, just level with me. Who's got them, web page?, retailer, any help will be greatly appreciated.....pretty please........


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## some guy (Oct 27, 2012)

356B;3172590 said:


> So where does one procure this M10 connector? come on you can do it, just level with me. Who's got them, web page?, retailer, any help will be greatly appreciated.....pretty please........


He said to look at an import auto shop.


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## 356B (Oct 11, 2008)

some guy said:


> He said to look at an import auto shop.


I don't have one where I live, I'll move on.....sorry for the bother.


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## GravelChan (Jan 30, 2005)

356B said:


> So where does one procure this M10 connector? come on you can do it, just level with me. Who's got them, web page?, retailer, any help will be greatly appreciated.....pretty please........


The only source I can think of is to order the remote extender cable (for a Hopper) from Dish, cut the cable in half and put F connectors on the cut ends.


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## FarmerBob (Nov 28, 2002)

356B said:


> Did you ever find a buying source for the M10 connectors?


As I said in my last "book", it looks and they imply that is just a simple F Connector now. They talk about using a -10dB signal attenuator that you can buy at a local electronics store, RadioShack, so I would take away from that it's a standard F Connector. Plus I have a ton of the -10, -15dB attenuators from all the previous installs and swaps throughout the years. If only the tech that came by a couple months ago had a Hopper on board, I could have touched one and known immediately. I think as Matt G said it was an M10 fitting which may have only been on the v1, since that was the only unit known then, or it was hand me down info? Everything I have seen to date on the v2 implies it's a standard "F" fitting. Which would be great for me. Although, I do have some M10 stuff that I bought when RadioShack.com closed their B&M stores and I grabbed a handful of fittings out of a bin not paying attention to what they actually were thinking that they were "F's".

But did a quick IPv6 Google, really fast, search and came up with this:
http://www.wpsantennas.com/cfmsf-fmemaletosmafemaleadapter.aspx 
or
http://www.wpsantennas.com/971119-f...09tsfgr09csfgr09csufgr-5013008andfgr09se.aspx
They look like the correct thing . . .

Seems like this measure is predominately a European Auto or Plumbing part size.


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## FarmerBob (Nov 28, 2002)

GravelChan said:


> The only source I can think of is to order the remote extender cable (for a Hopper) from Dish, cut the cable in half and put F connectors on the cut ends.


If push came to shove, that's what I would do.


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## FarmerBob (Nov 28, 2002)

Just checked my go to electronics parts store in Denver, Fistel's open since 1937, and the guy that asnwered the phone wasn't too sure about the specific M10 part I asked for, but then I find that over the phone inquiries are usually a 50/50 prospect. I bet if I went there I could find something. These guys have had everything at one time. Their like an old time hardware store for electronic parts.


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## Grampa67 (Mar 14, 2005)

P Smith said:


> yes: a) it's not grounded (but should, at least in CA we require that by code) and b) it's very long copper rod


cold water copper pipe to a brass faucet, copper pipe from faucet to hot water would ground the hot water.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Grampa67 said:


> cold water copper pipe to a brass faucet, copper pipe from faucet to hot water would ground the hot water.


I should get in details of propagating 400 MHz RF wave to heterogeneous pipes, heaters, etc what would be constituted as RF antenna ... 
so, it's not actual grounding, more likely distance and dimension of that copper pipe


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