# VOOM channels going MPEG4 August 15?



## peano (Feb 1, 2004)

I have read that the ten VOOM MPEG2 channels are going to MPEG4 only by August 15th.

Is this true?


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

Yes. Dish will be contacting subscribers that have non MPEG4 receivers to replace them.

First step to total elimination of MPEG2 receivers.

Next step is 2 satellites in MPEG4 with all HD and SD channels.


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

It's about time then we can start seeing an end to all of the old equipment that is dragging the net down. Will increase the room for more channels in both SD & HD.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

With all the new HD channel additions in MPEG4 there are probably not too many HD+Voom $15 total subscribers left anyways. E* has used temptation over the past 18 months to lure people over to MPEG4. Now it is time to replace the carrot with the stick.


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

James Long said:


> With all the new HD channel additions in MPEG4 there are probably not too many HD+Voom $15 total subscribers left anyways. E* has used temptation over the past 18 months to lure people over to MPEG4. Now it is time to replace the carrot with the stick.


I thought it was sugar lumps then carrots & finally the stick. :lol:


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Interestingly enough... didn't they say on the Chat last night that the current HD-receiver upgrade offers had been extended to August 14th?

Makes for an interesting timing with Voom going MPEG4 the next day... Could be the idea is to entice as many people to go MPEG4 by then in various ways... then it will be interesting to see what the MPEG4 upgrade offers are after August 15th.


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## Jason Nipp (Jun 10, 2004)

James Long said:


> With all the new HD channel additions in MPEG4 there are probably not too many HD+Voom $15 total subscribers left anyways. E* has used temptation over the past 18 months to lure people over to MPEG4. Now it is time to replace the carrot with the stick.


I'm left.... The temptation for me has been quenched by current budget status, and the fact I do not want to trade receivers I paid for the right to own, for receivers that would only give me the right to lease. If they would swap an owned 211 for an owned 811, well then maybe I would not be so hesitant.


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## lakebum431 (Jun 30, 2005)

Jason Nipp said:


> I'm left.... The temptation for me has been quenched by current budget status, and the fact I do not want to trade receivers I paid for the right to own, for receivers that would only give me the right to lease. If they would swap an owned 211 for an owned 811, well then maybe I would not be so hesitant.


I guess that is one of the main reasons that I feel it doesn't really do any good to buy anymore. I think there was a time when it made sense, but with the upgrade offers and changing technology that E* has these days it just makes more sense to lease than to buy (at least to me). The only way I could see buying any receiver at this point is if I wanted to get a 3rd 622 and they wouldn't lease it to me. But I don't see that happening.


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## DarkSol (Feb 11, 2007)

I have a bigger issue that each swap out locks you into an 18-month commitment...


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## Jason Whiddon (Aug 17, 2006)

DarkSol said:


> I have a bigger issue that each swap out locks you into an 18-month commitment...


Did you read the post about the tech chat? There was no mention of a 18 month.

Lakebum I agree, I wish you could lease HDTV's for $250 down and $6 a month :grin:


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Currently one must either make the commitment OR sign up for paperless billing and auto pay. If you don't want a commitment there are other options.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

lakebum431 said:


> I think there was a time when it made sense, but with the upgrade offers and changing technology that E* has these days it just makes more sense to lease than to buy (at least to me).


In my mind, the only good time to buy was when they wouldn't lease you something. I bought a 921 because I had to. I don't envision buying another receiver unless I'm similarly forced.


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## tm22721 (Nov 8, 2002)

harsh said:


> In my mind, the only good time to buy was when they wouldn't lease you something. I bought a 921 because I had to. I don't envision buying another receiver unless I'm similarly forced.


Laid down $1K for a 921 in Jan '04. That takes a long time to amortize.

I don't believe in commitments, be it debt or any other BS.

If Dish shuts off MPEG2 HD and wants me to upgrade to a 622 with a commitment, lease, or any other BS, they lose a 10 year subscriber.


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## derwin0 (Jan 31, 2005)

James Long said:


> Currently one must either make the commitment OR sign up for paperless billing and auto pay. If you don't want a commitment there are other options.


I don't let anyone dip into my accounts. Too many problems with overbilling and doublebilling. I prefer to push the money, not have it pulled.


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## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

peano said:


> I have read that the ten VOOM MPEG2 channels are going to MPEG4 only by August 15th.
> 
> Is this true?


Does anyone know if its just voom or all HD MPEG2 channels that are going to Mpeg4?


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## Hound (Mar 20, 2005)

I laid out $600 for a 921 in early 2005. Sold it on ebay about a month ago for about $180. I guess I was lucky because there was no announcement about
MPEG 2 going to MPEG 4.

I leased a 622 in February 2006 and paid the up front fee of I think $200.
Bought a second 622 on ebay in January for about $400. 

Decided to cancel Dish completely after my 18 month commitment runs out because Dish did not renew MLB EI. Sent my leased 622 back to Dish and got a cable HD box ($6.95 a month no upfront fee or commitment), so I could subscribe to MLB EI on cable.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

tm22721 said:


> Laid down $1K for a 921 in Jan '04. That takes a long time to amortize.
> 
> I don't believe in commitments, be it debt or any other BS.
> 
> If Dish shuts off MPEG2 HD and wants me to upgrade to a 622 with a commitment, lease, or any other BS, they lose a 10 year subscriber.


Something about that doesn't make sense to me... You don't believe in commitments, but you committed $1000 to a receiver?

Granted, they didn't have a lease option available for the 921... but that's why I never had one. I own my 6000u because back then it was the only HD receiver available and Dish had no lease options at all. In hindsight, had I waited another year I wouldn't have paid for that receiver.


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

derwin0 said:


> I don't let anyone dip into my accounts. Too many problems with overbilling and doublebilling.


Not really, and I think that is a statement that's too easy to make without support of
evidence and documentation, other than some nebulous anecdotal incident similar
to what a percentage of drivers use to justify their inane decision to not buckle up.

A little off-topic, but I never had a problem in five years of using Dish Autopay. In
fact, nearly all of my recurring bills are ACH or automatically charged to my Visa-
logo debit card (checking account) with no problems. If there ever were to be a
problem that I couldn't resolve myself, then Visa and my bank stand behind me.

:backtotop


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## dublus (Sep 15, 2005)

Has this sort of thing occured before where they more or less stop allowing a receiver you own to work on certain channels you're paying for?

In my case I have two leased 622's and one owned 942. Can they legally just pull programming from the 942 that I pay them for?


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## slowmo (Sep 22, 2006)

tm22721 said:


> Laid down $1K for a 921 in Jan '04. That takes a long time to amortize.
> 
> I don't believe in commitments, be it debt or any other BS.
> 
> If Dish shuts off MPEG2 HD and wants me to upgrade to a 622 with a commitment, lease, or any other BS, they lose a 10 year subscriber.


Amortize? What are you...an accountant? If so, keep up with your continuing education requirements. The ol' matching principle and historical cost assumption are increasingly obsolete while fair value accounting is here to stay!

Unfortunately, your 921's fair value is zilch (just like the 42" ED plasma that I bought in 2003).


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

dublus said:


> Has this sort of thing occured before where they more or less stop allowing a receiver you own to work on certain channels you're paying for?
> 
> In my case I have two leased 622's and one owned 942. Can they legally just pull programming from the 942 that I pay them for?


Yep. All programming is subject to change. It is in the residential agreement.

In your case, you will still be able to receive the channels on your ViP receivers. For those without ViP receivers (Voom as a $5 add-on) they will lose the channels and stop paying the fee.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

It is hard to deny that on some level this is bad and probably unfair to some customers... but sometimes backward compatibility has to be sacrificed for future functionality and performance.

I remember when they outlawed the old-style refrigerant and I could no longer buy recharges for my car... then when that same car air conditioner failed... I had a choice of putting about $1500 into it to retrofit the new-style system OR use that money towards the purchase of a new car that would come with the new air conditioning system.

Stuff happens...

Same with computers... Intel tried to be backwards compatible for a while... but somewhere around 486 timeframe they had to sacrifice full backwards compatibility to the stone age of the 8088 in favor of better performance for the new chips.

Again, stuff happens.


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## dublus (Sep 15, 2005)

James Long said:


> Yep. All programming is subject to change. It is in the residential agreement.
> 
> In your case, you will still be able to receive the channels on your ViP receivers. For those without ViP receivers (Voom as a $5 add-on) they will lose the channels and stop paying the fee.


Would you expect them to offer a more attractive upgrade for owned 942's then?

I've already got two 622's so I don't know where that would leave me seeing as I would be in violation of their max leased receiver policy (I think I'm right about that).


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

At your level they will probably want to sell you your third 622. 

I don't see any better option coming in the next couple of months ... if getting the Voom channels on your 942 is that important it is "just part of the price".

I would like to see the threshold raised so people could lease four receivers regardless of number of tuners. I wonder if they are still limiting leases as a form of rationing (to prevent a relative handful of customers are leasing three or four 622's running out the stock for new customers who just want one). 622's seem plentiful, but would they remain plentiful if third or fourth leases were allowed?


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## Moridin (Mar 22, 2005)

dublus said:


> Would you expect them to offer a more attractive upgrade for owned 942's then?
> 
> I've already got two 622's so I don't know where that would leave me seeing as I would be in violation of their max leased receiver policy (I think I'm right about that).


I can't speak to the issue of multiple DVRs, but check out my post in the sticky about the 622 upgrade deal for the offer I just got. Essentially they're paying me $100 to upgrade from a 942 to a 622.


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## JohnL (Apr 1, 2002)

dublus said:


> Has this sort of thing occured before where they more or less stop allowing a receiver you own to work on certain channels you're paying for?
> 
> In my case I have two leased 622's and one owned 942. Can they legally just pull programming from the 942 that I pay them for?


Dublus,

The short answer is yes. When you started your service with Dish you entered into a contract with Dish Network. Have you ever read that contract? There are many clauses in that contract, under most circumstances Dish doesn't enforce alot of those clauses.

At any time Dish can terminate services or migrate those services so that they require different hardware, they reserved that right in the contract you agreed too. BTW you agreed to all the terms of that contract whether you read it or NOT.

John


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

Adding a bit to the short answer...

The 5000 was no longer able to receive any HD channels when the last one was converted from QPSK to 8PSK modulation. That conversion also made the "Enhanced HD" module mandatory for HD on the 6000.

When Microsoft stopped supplying the DISHPlayer's guide, Dish did free Dish 500 upgrades so those receivers could get the Dish EEPG (this was well before it moved to 119°).


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## Dfal (Aug 28, 2006)

tm22721 said:


> Laid down $1K for a 921 in Jan '04. That takes a long time to amortize.
> 
> I don't believe in commitments, be it debt or any other BS.
> 
> If Dish shuts off MPEG2 HD and wants me to upgrade to a 622 with a commitment, lease, or any other BS, they lose a 10 year subscriber.


I'm a 10 year subscriber as well and own a 921 as well.I have one owned 622 also.I absolutely don't want to get rid of the 921 because of the Phone not being connected fee,the dvr fee,the leased receiver fee etc... all these fees are driving me crazy. My bill is close to $128 per month.


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## Dfal (Aug 28, 2006)

Dfal said:


> I'm a 10 year subscriber as well and own a 921 as well.I have one owned 622 also.I absolutely don't want to get rid of the 921 because of the Phone not being connected fee,the dvr fee,the leased receiver fee etc... all these fees are driving me crazy. My bill is close to $128 per month.


Does anyone know if the 921 OTA will continue to work if they go full MPEG 4. It makes no sense that it shouldn't but I can see it happening if they are trying to force people over to a 622. They think we are all dumbies.


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## diver90 (May 1, 2005)

I just had the discussion with them. 3 different CSR's. No waivers, no favors. I have been paying them more than $100/month for 2.5 years. They just don't care one bit. 18 month commitment or no deal. The alternative is go buy a box at retail.

I canceled my service. Good luck to all of you.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I honestly don't see what the big deal is about an 18-month commitment for service you presumably want to have is... I don't want to change service providers every 12-18 months... so the commitment really means nothing since I plan to be with Dish anyway.

I started a new 18-month commitment in November last year when I took my ViP622 upgrade... and now here I am about 9 months into that commitment and all is well. Time flies when you're having fun!


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## diver90 (May 1, 2005)

HDMe said:


> I honestly don't see what the big deal is about an 18-month commitment for service you presumably want to have is... I don't want to change service providers every 12-18 months... so the commitment really means nothing since I plan to be with Dish anyway.
> 
> I started a new 18-month commitment in November last year when I took my ViP622 upgrade... and now here I am about 9 months into that commitment and all is well. Time flies when you're having fun!


A few years ago I had to cut our budget to just essential items. Not having the freedom to do so is something that I just won't do.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

The offers on the Charlie Chat were 18 month commitment OR auto-pay. Was the auto-pay option not offered or is that something else you are not willing to do?


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## diver90 (May 1, 2005)

James Long said:


> The offers on the Charlie Chat were 18 month commitment OR auto-pay. Was the auto-pay option not offered or is that something else you are not willing to do?


Auto pay was not offered.

But that's not a material issue. The last thing I would ever do is let anyone/thing have an autodebit into my checking account.

BTW your post is a little..... "something else you are not willing to do?" Ever tried to straighten out autodebit problems? Even with credit cards?

I'm not the problem here. I'm the customer. DISH's approach makes it seem like it's an honor... it's not.


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

diver90 said:


> Auto pay was not offered.
> 
> But that's not a material issue. The last thing I would ever do is let anyone/thing have an autodebit into my checking account.
> 
> ...


Well, welcome to the 20th century.


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## diver90 (May 1, 2005)

Jim5506 said:


> Well, welcome to the 20th century.


HA. That's so last century. :lol:

I'd rather pay them $5/month for the box that they will make obsolete in 2 years.


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## Moridin (Mar 22, 2005)

For what it's worth, when I took the 18 month commitment for the upgrade (I asked about switching to paperless autopay instead, but it wasn't an option), I was told that if I cancelled before that period had elapsed, the charge for breaking the contract would be prorated at the rate of $13 for each month that remained. That didn't seem terribly unreasonable to me; that's a lower rate than what my cellular provider would hit me with if I cancelled with them.


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## diver90 (May 1, 2005)

Moridin said:


> For what it's worth, when I took the 18 month commitment for the upgrade (I asked about switching to paperless autopay instead, but it wasn't an option), I was told that if I cancelled before that period had elapsed, the charge for breaking the contract would be prorated at the rate of $13 for each month that remained. That didn't seem terribly unreasonable to me; that's a lower rate than what my cellular provider would hit me with if I cancelled with them.


If that's the case, then DISH did a terrible job of training their CSR's. The ones I spoke with were essentially clueless. I asked to speak with supervisors 3 times and only got voice mail that was never returned.

The last CSR, whose name and ID I have (as well as the others), could not have cared less.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

It sounds like the feeling is mutual ... you could care less about your previous investment in E*. So, where did you go? To some "introductory offer" from a cable system?

Yes, some times getting a good deal _for yourself_ takes commitment and possibly a little sacrifice. Every penny I've invested in E* equipment was done _for my benefit_ - not as a gift to the company but knowing that I was getting the best deal. Sometimes that took upfront payments that cut the float out of my budget for a few months ... sometimes it takes a commitment to minimum programming or auto-pay. But as a selfish subscriber I do what I can to get the best service I can get.


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## derwin0 (Jan 31, 2005)

Moridin said:


> That didn't seem terribly unreasonable to me; that's a lower rate than what my cellular provider would hit me with if I cancelled with them.


But at least with the cellular company you own the phone.
A commitment on a lease is ridicules.


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## diver90 (May 1, 2005)

James Long said:


> It sounds like the feeling is mutual ... you could care less about your previous investment in E*. So, where did you go? To some "introductory offer" from a cable system?
> 
> Yes, some times getting a good deal _for yourself_ takes commitment and possibly a little sacrifice. Every penny I've invested in E* equipment was done _for my benefit_ - not as a gift to the company but knowing that I was getting the best deal. Sometimes that took upfront payments that cut the float out of my budget for a few months ... sometimes it takes a commitment to minimum programming or auto-pay. But as a selfish subscriber I do what I can to get the best service I can get.


A good business relationship is predicated on both parties believing that they are exchanging value with each other. In this case I expect to receive value in the form of services, well and fairly rendered, in exchange for my providing them with value in the form of prompt payment (that they ratchet up from time to time).

I terminated the relationship because from my standpoint I was no longer getting the value I expected. They changed the service (if I did not upgrade the box I would no longer get all of the channels I am currently getting. The CSR actually wanted to me list what channels I watched saying maybe that would be OK) and the only way to continue was to sign up for 18 months.

Dish is not my only form of entertainment that comes into my house from satellite, cable or OTA. I have not run to some other company to take advantage of an introductory offer. Oh and your grocery store just called and wanted you to know that they are discontinuing ground beef and will only have ground sirloin. If you want to make hamburgers, you will need to sign up for an 18 month commitment.


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

If you don't want to have a "commitment" you can pay full price for the hardware.

I "paid" $299 for the down payment on a leased 622. Add in the $6 lease fee and $5.98 DVR fee and I've put put about another $150 or $200 into it. I probably should have bought at that price, but now with a one for one swap or even $150 with rebates and credits, the 622 deal is too sweet to pass up.

I'm getting a second one.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

derwin0 said:


> But at least with the cellular company you own the phone.
> A commitment on a lease is ridicules.


You might as well own a brick. Cell phone companies don't always allow you to bring your phone to their service. Some carriers do, but there is no guarantee that your next carrier will use the same technology, let alone allow just any phone on their service.


diver90 said:


> I terminated the relationship because from my standpoint I was no longer getting the value I expected. They changed the service (if I did not upgrade the box I would no longer get all of the channels I am currently getting.


And yet E* would no longer charge you for those channels (unless you have a ViP receiver elsewhere on your account and you're subscribed to the $20 DishHD package). You like those channels, but not enough to make a commitment to time or auto-pay.


> A good business relationship is predicated on both parties believing that they are exchanging value with each other.


Think of it this way ... E* has decided that it would be better for them to change those channels to a system that allows them to uplink six channels per transponder instead of three - basically cutting in half the satellite cost of carrying those ten channels and freeing up that space for more HD content. The "needs of the many" is to have more HD content ... with more and more channels announcing their plans to convert to HD the space that they are spending on Voom could be better used.

The demand that they continue to broadcast in MPEG2 for a relative handful of customers who have not yet upgraded or send out expensive equipment without the most minimal commitment (auto-pay) is not good value for both parties. Despite what you say about a "good business relationship" you're just looking for the best deal for _you_.

Which is why I approached it from that aspect in my previous post ... approaching each programming decision as the best deal for _me_. If you believe that dropping your "over $100 per month" account because you are losing (not loosing) 10 channels that you pay $5 for (and will be getting the $5 cut off your bill) is the best value for you then go for it (as you have already done).

Most posters don't place the "value" of the Voom channels at over $100. But with the other programming coming into your house perhaps you have just been overpaying for those channels - and needed to cut E* loose (not lose) before this change. This just gives you a convenient excuse.

Just like those folks who want early termination of their cellphone contract without penalty because of a minor fee change. They have deeper issues than (for example) the price of text messaging jumping from 10¢ to 15¢ unless they buy a pack of 100 for $5.00 (net 5¢ and only an increase if they send or receive less than 34 messages per month). The minor change is just a red herring that allows them to complain about the "big bad company" that done them wrong - they had deeper issues.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

diver90 said:


> A few years ago I had to cut our budget to just essential items. Not having the freedom to do so is something that I just won't do.


 I don't like autopay either... so I'm with you on that point. I don't mind paying electronically, but I don't like for it to be an automatic thing that I have little control over.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

HDMe said:


> I don't like autopay either... so I'm with you on that point. I don't mind paying electronically, but I don't like for it to be an automatic thing that I have little control over.


It is a choice. I don't like Sam's Club refusing to accept Visa credit cards (especially since they now accept MasterCard and have accepted Discover for many years). My bank happens to hand out Visa cards ... which means I have to pay more for my purchases than if I pay with my wife's MasterCard. (Processed as a debit card I pay vs processed as a credit card THEY pay as part of the margin they have rolled into their prices.) It is not fair but I have the choice to make an adjustment ... either pay by check, use my wife's MasterCard, or pay to use my Visa as a debit card. Or not buy.

A good bank or credit union will help a customer who has problems with an auto-pay arrangement. Perhaps people should be shopping for better financial institutions?

PS: I don't like auto-pay either ... I'd probably go with the commitment since the third option, paying full price and hoping that I could resell the unit later to recoup the cost, is more risky.


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## lakebum431 (Jun 30, 2005)

James Long said:


> It sounds like the feeling is mutual ... you could care less about your previous investment in E*.


I think you meant to say "you couldn't care less"


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## vader22 (Oct 25, 2005)

So if I'm paying the $20 HD fee and have a 622 and a 942, should I expect a call about replacing my 942?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

lakebum431 said:


> I think you meant to say "you couldn't care less"


I'm happy to have the loose vs lose right up in post 44!


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## kb7oeb (Jun 16, 2004)

I have a 622 with $10HD pack and $5 voom. Should I expect to loose the $5 voom? Based on what I've been reading it sounds like dish is eliminating the $5 voom package from the system.

(I do not sub to a basic package and is why I still have the old HD packages)


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## johnd393 (Jun 9, 2006)

Jason Nipp said:


> I'm left.... I do not want to trade receivers I paid for the right to own, for receivers that would only give me the right to lease. If they would swap an owned 211 for an owned 811, well then maybe I would not be so hesitant.


Exactly.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

kb7oeb said:


> I have a 622 with $10HD pack and $5 voom. Should I expect to loose the $5 voom? Based on what I've been reading it sounds like dish is eliminating the $5 voom package from the system.
> 
> (I do not sub to a basic package and is why I still have the old HD packages)


There is no _technical_ reason for you to lose Voom - the 622 can view MPEG4 just as well as the MPEG2 channels in your current subscription. But from a marketing standpoint E* may believe that it is time to move on.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

vader22 said:


> So if I'm paying the $20 HD fee and have a 622 and a 942, should I expect a call about replacing my 942?


If you haven't received a call or e-mail already, you probably won't. The offer is to those who subscribe to the basic VOOM package.

You also won't get a call if you've already done a Dish'n it Up on your 942.


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## kb7oeb (Jun 16, 2004)

James Long said:


> There is no _technical_ reason for you to lose Voom - the 622 can view MPEG4 just as well as the MPEG2 channels in your current subscription. But from a marketing standpoint E* may believe that it is time to move on.


I guess I'll just have to wait and see, I am not all that concerned about losing voom, I am more concerned that they will cut off the old HD pack later.


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## derwin0 (Jan 31, 2005)

James Long said:


> You might as well own a brick. Cell phone companies don't always allow you to bring your phone to their service. Some carriers do, but there is no guarantee that your next carrier will use the same technology, let alone allow just any phone on their service.


I can sell it to someone who will then use it.
It could be a GSM phone that can be used on some other providers network.
A litany of things.

You can't make a blatant "brick" statement when it's not always true.


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## nitz369 (Dec 15, 2005)

It's funny how the "early adopters" complain because they get screwed but the "late adopters" complain they screwed too. 

I guess Charlie should quit since he can't find a way to make every single customer happy!


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

derwin0 said:


> You can't make a blatant "brick" statement when it's not always true.


It wasn't a blatant brick statement ... read the entire post and take it down a notch.


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## derwin0 (Jan 31, 2005)

James Long said:


> It wasn't a blatant brick statement ... read the entire post and take it down a notch.


Then why say brick? In response to my complaint of paying a penalty for something you don't own or get to keep?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

The point was that whether you own the phone or not it is generally useless unless you continue a subscription with that company. Reuse on another network is relatively rare and even selling your phone to another subscriber for use on the same network is not guaranteed to work.

You can be happy that you get to keep an old cellphone if you like ... I have several old cell phones that will never be activated on any network again (most are analog only - real bricks - and my two old digital phones lack the E-911 features now required by the FCC for new activations - modern bricks). Yep, they are mine forever! 

Don't get me started on cellphone companies that require a commitment regardless of the equipment. Change your plan and get a year added to your commitment (even if no phone discounts were involved). Some companies are fighting that trend, but bringing in wireless companies as if they were saints of consumer electronics is laughable!

For more information on how cellphone companies rip people off check out Howard Forums (not affiliated with AVSForum or DBSTalk).

Back to satellite (since this is a DBS talk forum) what use is a ViP receiver after you have cancelled your subscription? If it is a DVR you can watch programs you recorded. There is a resale market and people are allowed to bring their own E* receiver to the party. If you want to make a larger commitment, buy your own receivers and hope that they are not obsolete when you go to sell them go for it.


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## Rick_R (Sep 1, 2004)

I have a 622 in the family room and moved my old 6000 to the master bedroom. My wife being the sweetheart she is suggested we get a smaller HDTV for the bedroom. Got the 37" VSIO from Costco.

However I guess I need to change that 6000 for a 211. What is this going to cost me? Hopefully zero. I don't mind a 18 month committment as I have had Dish for 7 years and am not going anyhere else. However NOBODY takes money out of my checking account with out me first reviewing every bill.

Rick R


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## Yes616 (Sep 6, 2006)

I just read in another forum that Voom will become available to Cablevision subscribers in just a few more days.

This might be a good thing. Cablevision will add it to their basic HD package. I wonder how many additional viewers this equates to. It has to be millions.

This might mean that we will see lots of new programming and less repeats. I hope.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Yes616 said:


> Cablevision will add it to their basic HD package.


You didn't read this thread very closely. Post #6 by ticket has a link to the Multichannel News website that contains the following:


Multichannel News said:


> Cablevision Systems said Thursday that it reached a deal with its Voom HD Networks unit to provide 15 of its HD channels to Cablevision's iO: Interactive Optimum digital customers June 26, boosting its HD lineup to 40 channels.


The iO digital tier is not "basic HD".


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## chc59 (Sep 12, 2005)

I subscribe only to the HD + Voom. Own an 811 receiver. Cost $22.15/mth. I get my other programming on my big dish. Have done so for many years. Just recently renewed my annual sub.

Got the expected postcard the other day about the changes in HD.

Called the number. CSR said that to get the new HD package I would have to subscribe to a basic package as well. I declined.

Called again with a what-if I purchase a new receiver outright. Could I then get a HD only package. Sorry, only way to get HD is if you sub to a basic package. (In fact, this CSR told me that I would lose ALL HD on 8/15 not just VOOM.)

Guess they don't want any of my money, even if I buy and install the equipment, little or no expense to them except billing.

Anyone out there had a better experience getting HD only. No sense me calling and emailing if the answer is always the same, i.e. No Way.

Joe


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## pdxsam (Jun 20, 2004)

If you've got a big Dish... why use Dish network? Not trying to flame, just asking why you're getting programming from Dish you can get on the BUD, 'cept for Voom.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

pdxsam said:


> If you've got a big Dish... why use Dish network? Not trying to flame, just asking why you're getting programming from Dish you can get on the BUD, 'cept for Voom.


I think you just answered your own question. The old HD pack was a prerequisite for Voom. Dish wouldn't sell you Voom if you didn't subscribe to the old HD pack also... and obviously the poster wanted Voom, so that's why he kept a Dish account.


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## pdxsam (Jun 20, 2004)

Gotcha,  I didn't get the sense that Voom was the reason for the account.


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## DishTSR3Mentor (Nov 3, 2006)

dublus said:


> Has this sort of thing occured before where they more or less stop allowing a receiver you own to work on certain channels you're paying for?
> 
> In my case I have two leased 622's and one owned 942. Can they legally just pull programming from the 942 that I pay them for?


Your residental service agreement, that all Dish customers sign as a terms of service (no matter what type of service you have, mind you), states that:::

_G. Changes in Services Offered. We reserve the right to add, delete, rearrange and/or change any and all programming, programming packages and other Services that we offer, and our prices and fees related to such programming, programming packages and Services at any time, including without limitation during any term agreement period to which you have agreed under the terms and conditions of any other agreement with DISH Network. If a change affects you, we will provide you notice of such change and its effective date. In the event that we delete, rearrange or change any programming, programming packages or other Services, you understand and agree that we have no obligation to replace or supplement any programming, programming packages or other Services previously offered that have been deleted, rearranged or otherwise changed. You further understand and agree that you will not be entitled to any refund because of a deletion, rearrangement or change in the contents of any programming, programming packages, or other Services previously offered. 
_

So, yeah.... Dish can change programming anytime they want for whatever reason they feel like. Moreover, they're providing a free 211 lease... it's not highway robbery by anyone's definition.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

pdxsam said:


> Gotcha, I didn't get the sense that Voom was the reason for the account.


I didn't either, the first time I read his post... then I read your question and re-read his post and thought about it again. That's the only thing that made sense to me once I thought long enough.


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

Move *ALL* the HD to MPEG 4. I know there will be many that don't like this idea but it is time to start moving all of the HD channels to MPEG 4. This way all the channels can be moved over to the need encoders that E* is installing (D* has recently bought these same encoders).


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Well, they have started. In a month the first 10 channels will be pulled from MPEG2 (the Voom channels that are the topic of this thread). How many HD channels are left on E* that were sold as MPEG2? Five plus the premiums (HBO and Showtime HD).

So the "all channels to MPEG4" conversion has already begun.


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## kb7oeb (Jun 16, 2004)

I've read that Discovery HDT will be discontinued (By discovery channel) after launching Discovery HD. If thats the case maybe Dish will be pulling the old HD pack too since it will no longer have one of its channels. The email I got from Dish was vague about what they will be pulling.

I will be content as long as I can continue to receive the Premium HD channels (with premium subscription) without having any HD pack (on mpeg4). I've read that you still can but Dish's website says you can't.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

kb7oeb said:


> I will be content as long as I can continue to receive the Premium HD channels (with premium subscription) without having any HD pack (on mpeg4).


They may hit you with the HD enabling fee.


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## chc59 (Sep 12, 2005)

Well, as I said in my post "I subscribe only to the HD + Voom", emphasis on the only. "Only", nothing else. HD programming on the BUD is very limited. With the exception of Discovery HD and the premium HD's like HBO HD, none of the other HD's in the original MPEG2 HD Pack are available on the BUD. That is why I subbed to the Dish HD Pack only + Voom. All of my other programming is on the BUD. Example, for $10 a month I get all of the movie channels in the Starz Digital package including Starz HD East and West.

Joe


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## 4HiMarks (Jan 21, 2004)

derwin0 said:


> I don't let anyone dip into my accounts. Too many problems with overbilling and doublebilling. I prefer to push the money, not have it pulled.


Me too. More importantly, I also want complete control of when the money leaves my account, and when it stops leaving my account (i.e. when I cancel my subscription).

Then there's the security issue. The greater the number of companies that have my cc number, the greater the chance that one of them is going to get hacked, or lose a laptop with customer data on it, or ...

-Chris


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## aloishus27 (Aug 8, 2006)

Maybe this is a little OT but, a D* door to door guy came by trying to switch me (after 10 years.... good luck) but I humored him. He says that D* will be offering VOOM soon. I haven't read anything alluding to that fact so can anyone enlighten me to whether or not this is true?


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## kb7oeb (Jun 16, 2004)

Last thing I read was DirecTV thought voom was nothing but filler so I doubt it.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

aloishus27 said:


> He says that D* will be offering VOOM soon.


Carrying the VOOM channels would put DIRECTV on a strict diet of crow for some time to come. The have been actively disparaging it while they try to cultivate partnerships to approximate it.


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## MVL999 (May 14, 2004)

peano said:


> I have read that the ten VOOM MPEG2 channels are going to MPEG4 only by August 15th.
> 
> Is this true?


I have a leased 622 receiver and an owned 942 receiver. When I called last week to upgrade my 942 receiver, they told me that there was a waiting list for the 622 receivers. Anyone else hear that there was a shortage of 622 receivers?


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## nicedeboy26 (Jul 27, 2007)

What is VOOM? Is it like Dish HD? As for a shortage of 622's, I haven't heard anything here. I have two that were installed last week and a replacement that is going back. Also, had a VIP222 installed.


-----------------------------------------------------------
UPDATE: I found what VOOM is, its 10 channels that are included in the Dish HD package that dish no longer just offers customers.


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

nicedeboy26 said:


> What is VOOM? Is it like Dish HD? As for a shortage of 622's, I haven't heard anything here. I have two that were installed last week and a replacement that is going back. Also, had a VIP222 installed.
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> UPDATE: I found what VOOM is, its 10 channels that are included in the Dish HD package that dish no longer just offers customers.


Take your shoes off man and use a few toes as well. there are 15 Voom channels. :lol:


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## JohnL (Apr 1, 2002)

nicedeboy26 said:


> What is VOOM? Is it like Dish HD? As for a shortage of 622's, I haven't heard anything here. I have two that were installed last week and a replacement that is going back. Also, had a VIP222 installed.
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> UPDATE: I found what VOOM is, its 10 channels that are included in the Dish HD package that dish no longer just offers customers.


Nicedeboy,

The Voom channels ARE part of the Dish HD package for ALL DISH HD subscribers, although all of the Voom Channels are being converted to the newer MPEG4 compression scheme. This means that Dish HD subs that have older NON MPEG4 Compliant receivers will stop receiving the VOOM Channels as of August 15th.

John


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## nicedeboy26 (Jul 27, 2007)

The reason I said 10 earlier is, as you all know the reps at dish are stupid already, told me there were only 10. Sorry.


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## n0qcu (Mar 23, 2002)

nicedeboy26 said:


> The reason I said 10 earlier is, as you all know the reps at dish are stupid already, told me there were only 10. Sorry.


That's because there are only 10 VOOM channels in the original mpeg2 voom package.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Yep, both answers are technically correct.

There are 15 total Voom channels, but right now only 5 of them are MPEG4. The other 10 MPEG2 Voom channels were part of a $5 add-on to old HD-pack customers from before the MPEG4 receivers.

Those original 10 Voom channels are converting to MPEG4 format which is necessitating upgrades for some customers if they want to continue viewing those channels.


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

Currently none of the Voom channels are MPEG4. They fill 5 transponders, at 3 per TP. The 5 that were added to the original 10 are MPEG2 but flagged to be viewable only by MPEG4 receivers.


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## peano (Feb 1, 2004)

Perhaps the changeover will be extended? From Skyreport:

EchoStar Extends Set-top Swap 
Possibly fueled by DIRECTV's announcement that it would exchange the co-branded DIRECTV/TiVo DVRs for newer MPEG-4 boxes, EchoStar has extended its offer of swapping out the old for the new. The DISH Network operator said customers subscribing to its VOOM package of high-definition channels now have a little more time to trade out their MPEG-2 receivers for the newer MPEG-4 versions. 

Earlier this year, EchoStar said it wanted to upgrade all VOOM HD channels it offers to the newer MPEG-4 transmission technology. During the transition, the company is offering subscribers the opportunity to exchange their current high-def receiver to one with MPEG-4 capabilities. 

The company said subscribers who have the 942 HD DVR could trade for the company's newer 622 MPEG-4 unit, and customers with the 811 model could swap for a 211. EchoStar said it would continue the offer through mid-Sept.


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## Grandude (Oct 21, 2004)

I finally made the call to Dish yesterday to get my 921 swapped out for a 622. Loyal customer for 11 years so I didn't have any problems other than having to get bumped up to a higher CSR lever and losing the phone connection one time.

End result, they will be bringing out a VIP622 this Sunday, absolutely would not just ship it to me, and the cost to me is nil. This will be a second 622 here and there was some confusion at first since I already have a 211 on lease. My 921 is owned by me so I don't have to ship it back and the 'new' 622 will be leased.

The CSR thought I would get the $10/month back from Dish on my bill but suspect that he was confused as I already have the upgraded $20 HD package from my previous 211 order and have been getting the rebate on my bill each month. (It would be nice if this got extended like my commitment got extended but I'm not holding my breath on that.)

PS. I get to keep my 921. May salvage the HDD out of it.


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## Presence (Mar 14, 2004)

So... are we entirely at MPEG-4 yet?


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## tsduke (Mar 20, 2007)

Presence said:


> So... are we entirely at MPEG-4 yet?


Still mpeg2 last I read.


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## Raymond Simonian (Nov 22, 2002)

Grandude said:


> I finally made the call to Dish yesterday to get my 921 swapped out for a 622. Loyal customer for 11 years so I didn't have any problems other than having to get bumped up to a higher CSR lever and losing the phone connection one time.
> 
> End result, they will be bringing out a VIP622 this Sunday, absolutely would not just ship it to me, and the cost to me is nil. This will be a second 622 here and there was some confusion at first since I already have a 211 on lease. My 921 is owned by me so I don't have to ship it back and the 'new' 622 will be leased.
> 
> ...


I have a 921 and an 811 that I purchased. I have a leased 622.. I have the Everything Package and the $20 HD package. Its been at least a year since I upgraded to the 622. Why did you get a 622 instead of the 722? I would like to make a similar arrangement and keep my 921. But I want to upgrade to a 722. I will deactivated my 811.


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## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

tsduke said:


> Still mpeg2 last I read.


They switched this morning, and are gone at least from non-mpeg4 receivers on 61.5.


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