# are you happy with dish network



## packerfan31 (Oct 14, 2008)

I just want to know of the people that are happy with dish network. I have the vip722 receiver. I had one that had reboot problem. other than that I am happy with them.


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## JWKessler (Jun 3, 2004)

packerfan31 said:


> I just want to know of the people that are happy with dish network. I have the vip722 receiver. I had one that had reboot problem. other than that I am happy with them.


More or less - yes, I'm happy.

My only complaint so far ... Audio/video synch problems are too common and unpredictable. Sometimes the audio is way behind the video, then they get back in synch. I can't figure out a pattern. Example - I record Keith Olberman and Rachel Maddow back to back on MSNBC. Often Olberman will be way out of synch while Maddow will be just fine. Local news on Chicago's WLS is out of synch but network programming will be fine later in the evening. This seems to be happening on all channels.


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## finniganps (Jan 23, 2004)

I have been with Dish since 1999...started with a Dishplayer and 4900...currently have a 722 and 508 and I am still happy with Dish.


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## am7crew (Jun 6, 2009)

Im happy with them. However keep in mind my only options are Charter, Directv and Dish. No U-Verse or Fios in my area yet. I do however like to trying my options out and out of the 3 Im happiest with Dish.


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## CoolGui (Feb 9, 2006)

I wouldn't say I'm happy with them, but they are the best fit for me for now. Basically Dish has the best HD DVR available to me when I compare to Comcast and DirecTV. For similar packages, they are slighly cheaper than the other two as well. I would like to have some more of the RSN sports content available to me that Comcast has. There has been a lot of buzz about a 4 tuner cablecard for HTPCs coming out supposedly Q1 2010. If that ever gets released and is not vaporware, I plan to try going back to Comcast for a while as that would remedy both the horrible DVR they offer and the price as the M-Card rentals is much less than HD-DVR rental prices.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Happy, as in "delighted, pleased, or glad, as over a particular thing?" (Dictionary.com)

Yes and no.

I get all of the channels I want but not all of the HD channels I want.
My 722 and my 612 both work satisfactory 98% of the time, but the other 2% can be irritating; they are pretty amazing DVRs.
If I'm careful how I approach customer service and technical service, I usually get what I want; sometimes I have to play CSR roulette, however, and for something serious, using the administrative office email address does work.
Installation and service personnel in our area are subcontractors to contractors to Dish; the field guys who show up basically don't know as much as I do and sometimes have been incompetent, so I fix things after they leave including once moving a Dish to get the signal.
Dish's rates are very competitive and it is the best option for me; of course, I don't have another option as Comcast offers extremely limited HD (and is more expensive), ATT doesn't even offer DSL much less Uverse, and to use Direct I'd have to cut down at least one very tall redwood tree which is not possible.
But I'm oddly comfortable with Dish. We started with Echostar C-band equipment in 1988 and have had no serious complaints as we've changed service over the years. I "glad" we have Dish HD service, so in that sense I'm "happy."

And I'm delighted being a Dish customer has led me to this forum, so for that I'm "very happy."


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## John W (Dec 20, 2005)

packerfan31 said:


> I just want to know of the people that are happy with dish network. I have the vip722 receiver. I had one that had reboot problem. other than that I am happy with them.


Very happy with DISH for many years and believe the second poster is brilliant when they say "Often Olberman will be way out of synch".


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## butters (Sep 25, 2007)

I've been with Dish for over 5 years and am still running two 322s with no issues. I rarely have to reboot them and other than occasional rain/snow fade it rarely goes out. There are lots of things I would do to improve the service but overall I like the service compared to the alternatives out there. I am contemplating going to HD and DVR but am awaiting the price increase and trying to convince my wife that we need them!


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## ibglowin (Sep 10, 2002)

Have two 722's. They just work each and every day. I can not remember the last time I had a missed or failed timer. Love the external hard drive option and now the online and iPhone app to add, delete or change timers while out of the house.

Now just give me some Madmen in HD on AMC!


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## Rduce (May 16, 2008)

Since I am a 5-Star customer, I am treated like royalty, so yes I am extremely pleased with Dish Network.


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## clyde sauls (Nov 16, 2007)

I say yes. Just wished they could offer a la carte. I know it is the programmers fought that they dont and if any television provider could I know Charlie would be the first company to offer it. I believe he has appeared before Congress before over many issues I believe that might have been one of course to no avail.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

Happy ? - 

Well - I'm satisfied that I'm paying a fair price for the entertainment it provides. Do I wish it was cheaper or there were cheaper options (ala carte) ? Of course. But I haven't had any desire to go looking elsewhere either (i.e. DirecTv or Time Warner Cable).


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## archer75 (Oct 13, 2006)

For the most part. I'm not happy about the $5 fee when you downgrade programming.

But I love the 722 and being able to record 3 shows at once. Something I can't do with any other TV provider.


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## TUKIN18S (Aug 16, 2005)

loving my 722 the past year and a half. I may have only had to do a full unplug two or three times in that time.


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## inazsully (Oct 3, 2006)

Very happy but I am getting tired of waiting for BBC to go HD. Offering us a lighted remote for a reasonable price would be sweet.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

inazsully said:


> Very happy but I am getting tired of waiting for BBC to go HD. Offering us a lighted remote for a reasonable price would be sweet.


A lighted remote is interesting, had one before on a all in one remote. Dish's current remote, is so simple in layout, it doesn't really to be lighted like Directs confusing layout and unmarked buttons. I can operate the buttons on my Dish remote using just 1 thumb, as everything is within easy reach.


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## paja (Oct 23, 2006)

archer75 said:


> For the most part. I'm not happy about the $5 fee when you downgrade programming.
> 
> But I love the 722 and being able to record 3 shows at once. Something I can't do with any other TV provider.


With U-verse you can record 4


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

paja said:


> With U-verse you can record 4


Well, ViP722k Can record 4 as well.


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## archer75 (Oct 13, 2006)

paja said:


> With U-verse you can record 4


No u-verse here.



GrumpyBear said:


> Well, ViP722k Can record 4 as well.


My understanding was that while you could have 4 tuners it would only actually record 2 at once.
Similar to the direct tv box with the OTA add on.

Are you saying this is not the case?


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

archer75 said:


> No u-verse here.
> 
> My understanding was that while you could have 4 tuners it would only actually record 2 at once.
> Similar to the direct tv box with the OTA add on.
> ...


With the OTA addon, you can record 2 Sats, and 2 OTA's at the sametime.
I currently only have a 622 and a 722, with built in 1 OTA tuner, and can record 2 Sat's and 1 OTA all at the sametime. 
Having 1 OTA (and sometimes I wish I had 2 OTA) tuners comes in handy, last nite was a perfect example. 
Wife and kids like Bones and Vampire Diaries, I record Bones on the OTA Tuner and Vampire Diaries on Sat tuner, this allows me to watch and surf my shows on the other SAT tuner, last nite. During football season I watch the Thursday nite game, and record thier shows at the sametime.


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## archer75 (Oct 13, 2006)

GrumpyBear said:


> With the OTA addon, you can record 2 Sats, and 2 OTA's at the sametime.
> I currently only have a 622 and a 722, with built in 1 OTA tuner, and can record 2 Sat's and 1 OTA all at the sametime.
> Having 1 OTA (and sometimes I wish I had 2 OTA) tuners comes in handy, last nite was a perfect example.
> Wife and kids like Bones and Vampire Diaries, I record Bones on the OTA Tuner and Vampire Diaries on Sat tuner, this allows me to watch and surf my shows on the other SAT tuner, last nite. During football season I watch the Thursday nite game, and record thier shows at the sametime.


Oh I record 3 shows at once all the time on my 722. There are a few times when I may be able to record 4 at once.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

archer75 said:


> Oh I record 3 shows at once all the time on my 722. There are a few times when I may be able to record 4 at once.


There are a few times I would like to record 4 shows, normally its because of the start early end late conflicts the networks are creating to drive DVR users nuts.


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## dakeeney (Aug 30, 2004)

Just made the switch from DTV to Dish and so far I'm very pleased with Dish network. No audio dropouts or pixelation like with DTV.


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

I'm back with Dish after 3 years with DirecTV,I have Dish's standard definition programming(AT250+HBO+Cinemax+Showtime+Starz) with their 625 DVR.Am I happy? yes I am.


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## dragon342 (Oct 31, 2009)

Jhon69 said:


> I'm back with Dish after 3 years with DirecTV,I have Dish's standard definition programming(AT250+HBO+Cinemax+Showtime+Starz) with their 625 DVR.Am I happy? yes I am.


Yep!! better than cable, or D*


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## samsmith (Oct 31, 2009)

Yes!!


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## HDlover (Jul 28, 2006)

paja said:


> With U-verse you can record 4


4 SD or 2 HD wih 2 SD. Since this is an HD thread, who cares about the SD.


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## jrb531 (May 29, 2004)

am7crew said:


> Im happy with them. However keep in mind my only options are Charter, Directv and Dish. No U-Verse or Fios in my area yet. I do however like to trying my options out and out of the 3 Im happiest with Dish.


Years with Dish and I tried Uverse for over a year (still have them for phone/internet) and I just came back to Dish.

When working Uverse is a marvel but we never went a single month without losing the TV or Phone. In the end I think it was the fact that we were heavy users with 4 TV's and often has all 4 TV's in use along with the Internet. It only takes one to cause you to lose sync and then everything goes to pot.

Others love Uverse and have not had the issues we had. Funny thing is that once we dropped TV everything cleared up and the phone never goes out anymore.

What I like about Dish is that it's stable! I never have to worry about it going down like Uverse. I hope AT&T can fix Uverse (competition is a good thing) but right now they have to figure out how, in 2010, they can do more that 2 channels of HD at the same time.

Recording a show in HD and you can only watch one other HD channel in the entire house! Recording 2 shows and you cannot watch any! While this may have been acceptable in 2007 it's NOT in 2010 IMHO.

The problem is that AT&T is using old phone lines to deliver 25mps service to your home and this is shared with internet/phone so they cannot do more HD unless they compress the picture even more or roll out 32mps service but this only works if you are less than 1000 feet from the VRAD (local distribution box) the other 70% of their customers are SOL.

So coming back to Dish has been really nice and about the same price as Uverse. Sure I miss being able to watch HD on all my TV's (every TV is HD with Uverse.... you just cannot watch more than 2 HD at a time) and it was nice to have one DVR for the entire house but, like in life, everything has tradeoffs and the grass is not always greener


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## jjanthony (Mar 1, 2008)

Loved my HR10-250 TiVo with DirecTv for years...hated the HR20 so switched to Dish. Not as polished as TiVo, but much, much better than the HR20.

Now...if DirecTv ever get around at relaunching a TiVo branded box I might switch back.


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## rcnc (Jan 21, 2010)

new customer - quick install (sunday install 8am. (outside my house at 7:58am calling me)- I called Saturday 10am!)

Very knowledgeable tech did install, I asked numerous q's, he knew the answers - no BS. 
Spent about 5 hrs getting it done, right! Pic quality was my main concern (HD), all I can say is very happy - the HD's are very good (65 Panny) the DVR works great - also tried to schedule a remote record via ipod - worked well & very easy!. 

Funny storey - when at mall returning cable box, line was 6 deep, including husband & wife with a suitcase(3 HD boxes & cable modem)! All dropping off & cancelling cable!!!
They simply took my box - never asked a question. Get home & "retention unit" call comes - did not like my comments on service and quality of people/service I had experienced. I still have a cable wire from box running across my driveway from "install fix" from 1 1/2 years ago - they said they would come back and bury it.......tick tock tick tock...
I hope all remains as currently.


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## jimmerz (Jan 26, 2010)

JWKessler said:


> More or less - yes, I'm happy.
> 
> My only complaint so far ... Audio/video synch problems are too common and unpredictable. Sometimes the audio is way behind the video, then they get back in synch. I can't figure out a pattern. Example - *I record Keith Olberman and Rachel Maddow back to back on MSNBC. Often Olberman will be way out of synch while Maddow will be just fine.:icon_stup* Local news on Chicago's WLS is out of synch but network programming will be fine later in the evening. This seems to be happening on all channels.


Your problem is not the Dish or Audio/Video synch, it is Olberman and Maddow, they are way out of Sync....:lol:


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## VegasDen (Jul 12, 2007)

Right now I am on the fence. I am new (left D* after 5 years) and my first week or so has not been good.

First, the 612 box (their choice as I have a 211K in the bedroom..i wanted 2 HD TV feeds) started acting up a day after install. Random reboots, screen freezes and the box fnally wouldn't start at all. So, I am now waiting for 2nd day air (box died Sunday am). Good thing I had a 211K or I would have no TV for 3 days.....poor service if you ask me.

I move the 211K downstairs. Runs fine for a day. Then yesterday it refused to change channels. It told me I had to reset the box....which I did.

If this new box arriving sometime tomorrow begins to flake out, I'll have no choice but to return to D*. I requested the "better" 722..they said if one was available. Tracking statement says it's a 612. 

When I have been able to watch...I feel the picture & sound quality is slight better than D*. 

So we'll see what they do to keep a new customer on the brink...


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

VegasDen said:


> Right now I am on the fence. I am new (left D* after 5 years) and my first week or so has not been good.
> 
> First, the 612 box (their choice as I have a 211K in the bedroom..i wanted 2 HD TV feeds) started acting up a day after install. Random reboots, screen freezes and the box fnally wouldn't start at all. So, I am now waiting for 2nd day air (box died Sunday am). Good thing I had a 211K or I would have no TV for 3 days.....poor service if you ask me.
> 
> ...


While I'm good with Dish and love the ViP DVRs when they work, I've had 4 722's, the first of which died in two days, the second was fine but I sent it with recordings on it to Echostar Engineering to help them with a general problem in our DMA, the third died without ever booting up (delaying them getting my one that worked), and the fourth works fine.

My 612 works ok and has never been replaced which is true for most customers. But some here have reported problems like I had with the 722.

Most boxes you'll get are going to be refurbs. The record for the guys in the refurb department isn't real great IMHO.

I hope you get a good one, either a 722 or 612, as they are good DVRs. I take it you don't have OTA or you would be ordering a 722k.


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## Deke Rivers (Jan 8, 2007)

15 year subscriber and gotta say not as much as i used to be..they have gotten rid of too many of my favorite channels and frankly have replaced them with crap
on the plus side ive had few equipment failures and outages (not including weather related ) have been very few


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## lgb0250 (Jan 24, 2010)

Came from D* three years ago and have generally been happy. Been contemplating going back to them because of their new MRV setup. Wish E* would address this instead.


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## iamnotherbert (Mar 9, 2009)

I'm satisfied with Dish.

Pros
---
* Price can't be beat.
* PiP feature of the 722 is spectacular.

Cons
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* Free on-demand offerings are sparse (compared to Comcast).
* Drop-outs are frequent (at least twice a month).
* TurboHD content is OK (compared to Comcast). (I'm sticking with TurboHD due to the price...saving $$$ is more important than excess channels.)

If I wasn't so price sensitive, I'd go with Comcast. Their DVR was functional (but not up to the level of the 722) and they had much more content. But that content came with an enormous price tag, and I just can't justify paying that much for TV.


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## prm1177 (Aug 21, 2007)

I'm a very happy client since 2001 when I bought into a DISH system for HD content. Good people, good engineering and an all round responsive company.


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## dclaypool (Jul 11, 2005)

Rduce said:


> Since I am a 5-Star customer, I am treated like royalty, so yes I am extremely pleased with Dish Network.


What's a 5-star customer?


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## dclaypool (Jul 11, 2005)

622 for many years now, before that a SD receiver


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## JWKessler (Jun 3, 2004)

Well, I have had my Dish system running for several weeks now so I can give a more informed opinion.

I moved to Dish because my local cable company couldn't provide reliable digital service. Too many audio drop outs and video breakups and service outages. It was unusual to get through a 2 hour viewing session without at least one drop out and often there were several.

So far I have only seen a couple of very brief digital beak ups on Dish and one brief audio drop out. These may have originated at the source rather then within the delivery system. This is like heaven.

I kept my cable just for locals and I still get break ups on the locals in digital and have to switch to analog for reliable - but noisy - viewing.

HD picture quality seems very comparable to what I had on cable. That was my major concern since my last satellite experience was with the awful pre MPG-4 SD macro blocking mess on an old DirectTV system. I see none of that now.

I'm still getting used to the differences between using my old Motorola cable DVR and the 722 receiver. For the most part the Dish DVR has been much better - though different enough to require some getting used to it.

I previously mentioned Audio/Video synch problems - mostly on live programming. Oddly I haven't seen that much for the past week or so.

My only complaint so far? Dish doesn't offer locals for my area (Binghamton NY), so I still have to deal with the unreliable local cable for CBS and PBS. If Dish could fix that - or offer out of market network programming - I would be totally pleased.


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## PRIME1 (Nov 29, 2007)

Switched to Dish from Directv in 2007 when Directv told me how much I would have to pay for a HD dvr. Dish gave me a 722 and I have never looked back. Signed up for the dishHD package when it was available and I am just on cruise control right now. Eventually I will have to figure out how to get HD into the bedroom, but right now I am fine.


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## PBowie (Jan 4, 2006)

I'm happy with Dish too-been a customer for 10 years

only things I'm not keen on (but can live with) is billing in advance and the nickel and dime charges.


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## altidude (Jan 13, 2010)

I switched from DirecTV to Dish about three weeks ago after 10 years with DirecTV and it was a good move. I'm happy with Dish and don't regret the switch.


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## conchshell (Jun 8, 2007)

I am satisfied but if at&t implements the new mediaroom software msft announced, i will be tempted.


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## jsk (Dec 27, 2006)

dclaypool said:


> What's a 5-star customer?


I think I am a 5 star customer (according to some paperwork). It is probably because I have been with Dish for several years and have referred other people via Club Dish. I notice that get the US customer service reps and probably get priority on service calls.


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## JackTheBear (Mar 21, 2010)

Have had Dish for more than 10 years - Had a 625 for the last 5 or so - I bought it outright and owned all the equipment - Then I decided to go HD - Had their tech install two 612's - both crapped out within 24 hours - So now I have NO TV - Anyone got a set of Rabbit Ears??? HA
Supposed to fix it Monday the 22nd - I just may have to go back to the 625 - No HD - But at least it worked.


Perhaps someday we will start making electronic in THIS country - railroadingamerica.com


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## joshjr (Aug 2, 2008)

I could never be happy with E*. The lack of programming I want & there web site is years outdated. No thanks.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

joshjr said:


> I could never be happy with E*. The lack of programming I want & there web site is years outdated. No thanks.


Glad that works for you. 
Myself overall, I am pretty happy with Dish, and enjoy superior ViP DVR Hardware, Versus, BBCA, FSC, my HBO's in HD, serveral other HD channels too. When I get a sports package with Dish, I get the sports in HD included, I don't have to spend Hunderds on a package, just to spend a hundred, more to get the HD feeds. Dish actually makes sure that Channels I get actually works, and I have no stupid advertisments my guide. 
I don't have to go the Dish hardware forum and read the weekly poll on just how slow the ViP receivers are, and how there were slowed down again. Family really enjoys the external harddrive feature, everybody has there own drive, makes life real easy. We were able to watch all the Olympics in HD, lots of good Hockey was played on MSNBC.


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## joshjr (Aug 2, 2008)

GrumpyBear said:


> Glad that works for you.
> Myself overall, I am pretty happy with Dish, and enjoy superior ViP DVR Hardware, Versus, BBCA, FSC, my HBO's in HD, serveral other HD channels too. When I get a sports package with Dish, I get the sports in HD included, I don't have to spend Hunderds on a package, just to spend a hundred, more to get the HD feeds. Dish actually makes sure that Channels I get actually works, and I have no stupid advertisments my guide.
> I don't have to go the Dish hardware forum and read the weekly poll on just how slow the ViP receivers are, and how there were slowed down again. Family really enjoys the external harddrive feature, everybody has there own drive, makes life real easy. We were able to watch all the Olympics in HD, lots of good Hockey was played on MSNBC.


Nope more like you read how they lack sports programming, why cant we get that free preview, losing lawsuits to TiVo, holding breath to see if customers were gained that qtr, dvr fees per dvr, etc.

To each their own. Glad it works for you. Maybe no one told you but D* has Vs in HD. Like I said their website is out of date by years. E* still thinks there is UPN and WB affiliates. Not to mention E* does not offer my FSN. I need the exclusive packages, mainly NFL so I dont have to watch the Chiefs and Rams. Glad you like it but it would never work for me. As for hardware I have seen 3 HD DVR's come available in my less then 2 years with D* and none that I know of with E*. I believe that the 722 was available when I signed up with D* and there has been nothing since then either. You call that advancement?

Now a 4 tuner DVR in the 922 sounds good but where is it? Whats with the delays? Wasnt the talks about it more then 6 months ago now? Is it not cost effective or just cant keep up the standard E* thinks they have set?


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## JWKessler (Jun 3, 2004)

Seeing this topic has come alive again, I should update my comment about the audio synch problems I was having with my 722k. This turned out to be related to the analog audio outputs on TV 1 only. The HDMI audio was fine as was the analog from TV 2. The fix was super simple. I moved the audio cables from TV 1 to TV 2. No more synch problems.

I'm a very happy Dish customer.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

GrumpyBear said:


> ... When I get a sports package with Dish, I get the sports in HD included, I don't have to spend Hunderds on a package, just to spend a hundred, more to get the HD feeds. ...


NBA League Pass, NHL Center Ice, and MLB Extra Innings all include HD with no extra charge...and have more HD games then Dish.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

Over all I give Dish a B+

The things I like.

The VIP Receivers
The HD Programming selections
The Overall price
The Dishin it Up Equipment cost and options.
The premium Movie channel options
Super Station Option
NFL Red Zone cheapest around.
Online Chat for customer service.
Now The things I don't Like.

Paying to Upgrade to an Eastern Arc dish ,when I'm an eastern arc customer.
Adding HD channels to satellites not every customer has current access to.
The HD PQ is not as good as Directv and Fios
The customers service is too unpredictable.
1000.4 Dish needs 500/1000+ reflector in some locations to provide an ample signal level.
No Notice of Price Changes or Channel moves.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

joshjr said:


> I could never be happy with E*. The lack of programming I want & there web site is years outdated. No thanks.


Lack of programming is a very legitimate reason to prefer one over the other. I fully understand that. But the website? Who cares? I seldom go there and when I do it is just to look at my bill or change programming a bit.

I was with D* for a little less than 2 years. Started with the HR20 and went through 4 of those in the first couple of months, then to a HR21 and it lasted the rest of the time. But the dog slow operation and lack of remote response was just intolerable, so I switched.

Couldn't be happier with E* unless they offered my locals in HD. The programming I want is there, the PQ/AQ is on par with D* and the operation is smooth and easy. The Vip722k I use, and the 625 my son uses have been flawless from day 1 and both operate with no glitches.

Perfect? No. But more perfect that D* imo.

Color me tickled pink!


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## lman12 (May 23, 2007)

A question for the Dish subscribers. Do you wish Dish would have more sports available for subscription? IMO it seems like Charlie/Dish doesn't give its customers the option to decide is they want a particular sports package (e.g., MLB EI and I know NFL Sunday Ticket is exclusive to us D* customers). 

I would think the customer would at least have the option to either subscribe or not subscribe to a particular programming package.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

For me, there is enough sports to go around with Dish. But then, I'm not an avid sports fan. Well, other than boxing, but that's either on at night or I can record and watch whenever.

But if I were an avid football fan and was willing to pay the freight, I'd be back on D* for it. And just grit my teeth everytime I used the remote...


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

I get plenty of sports - I see no real reason to pay the NFL for the "possibility" of seeing "all games", ditto on the others.


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## lman12 (May 23, 2007)

scooper said:


> I get plenty of sports - I see no real reason to pay the NFL for the "possibility" of seeing "all games", ditto on the others.


For the Sports fan it isn't just the option of getting plenty of Sports. With Dish unless you spring for what little Sports packages they offer, you will be limited to seeing only your "local" team and not any of the other games involving out of market teams.

With people who are Sports fans and having relocated from one part of the country to another, Directv Sports packages makes a lot of sense because you get to see your team(s) play and/or get to see the best games of the day and not just what is locally available. Pricing is an issue for all packages and not just Sports so for me Directv is the way to go.

Also just what HD channels Dish offers that is not offered by Directv or won't be offered once the new Directv D12 satellite is operational this Spring?


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

For the sports fan willing to pay the freight, D* is the way to go. I don't think that really has ever been in dispute. For those of us that like to watch sports, but aren't necessarily 'sports fans', E* has enough to keep us busy.

As to what channels E* or D* will have in HD in the future, who knows? I don't and really no one else does either. Or let's say, those that do know aren't telling us.

But rest assured, both E* and D* will bore us to tears with incessant ads telling us all about why they have the most HD or whatever else they can bore us with.

At some point, both services will most likely have all the HD channels available, although E* may never bend over for MLB and NFL.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

I tell people this:

If you like sports, then I suggest Directv.
If you like movies, then I suggest Dish.


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## cditty (Nov 27, 2009)

I am extremely happy with dish.

I love my 722K with OTA. I often record 4 programs while watching another.

Dish has more HD channels that *I* watch. The only sport I watch is NBA, which I get just fine on Dish. In my opinion, the only reason to have Direct would be if I was an NFL fan, which I'm not. I watch the superbowl and get that just fine.

In my case, Direct does not carry my local DMA either.


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## joshjr (Aug 2, 2008)

lparsons21 said:


> Lack of programming is a very legitimate reason to prefer one over the other. I fully understand that. But the website? Who cares? I seldom go there and when I do it is just to look at my bill or change programming a bit.
> 
> I was with D* for a little less than 2 years. Started with the HR20 and went through 4 of those in the first couple of months, then to a HR21 and it lasted the rest of the time. But the dog slow operation and lack of remote response was just intolerable, so I switched.
> 
> ...


My point was that even if I wanted to go with E* their web site is so outdated I could not determine for sure what I would get. I remember last year I called and asked a simple question in my mind, their local tool didn't show a CW affiliate here. Well we don't have one so that's what I expected but there was an * that said some qualify folr CW on xxx channel number. I asked what CW affiliate that was & if I would get that if I signed up. I was told that they could not tell me if I could get it unless I was an active customer cause there was no way for them to know. Not to mention they could figure out the freaking call letters for the affiliate. I found it all out myself on other web pages. It was a Super Station but not on one of the normal Super Station channels. I tried to explain that I could never sign up for any company that I had to be an active customer to know what programming options I had. They could of cared less.


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## joshjr (Aug 2, 2008)

cditty said:


> I am extremely happy with dish.
> 
> I love my 722K with OTA. I often record 4 programs while watching another.
> 
> ...


Its funny you mention that. D* don't have my DMA's locals either but E* does & I still choose D*. With a large antenna I can get my DMA and the DMA I really want.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

As for 4 tuner DVR's, Dish has had them for years, its called a 722k. NFL Sunday ticket is cool, loved last yrs promo for it form Direct, great price, $300 or but if you actually want the games in HD please hand over another $100, sorry l love football, but thats just crazy, I will get the Multi-sports pack for college football, which includes the Redzone at no extra charge for $5.99, oh and no extra for the HD feeds. Could careless if some of the RSN's are part time, as I only watch during game time. I did forget I had read that 15th or 16th, Direct got VS back. 

Direct has had lots of new DVR's comeout, but they all still slow as molassas, running up the Tree in January, and every firmware updates starts a new poll on just how slow they are. With all the new DVR's you would figure Direct would resolve some issues like Channels I get, Real DLB, PiP, They could stop throughing add's in the Guide, a remote thats layed out plainly, instead of having to learn button sequences, that are a single push on Dish. You would think that with all the new DVR's they would, update the controller so you external drive doesn't disable the internal HD, and would be smart enough to use a house code key so you could actually upgrade, your DVR and not have to lose everything. 

For sports, you would have really enjoyed some of the extra Hockey and other non curling sports in HD, if you only had MSNBC. Loving FSC in HD, BBCA's 6 Nations Cup Coverage has been Great in HD. BBCA and FSC have been two of the Best HD additions Period, there were 7 other HD's added at the sametime, they are nice, but BBCA and FSC are two of the BEST period. As for websites, Dish's remote access website, remote feature are light years ahead of anything Directs text and Pray system. Can't fault you on Dish's still calling the Superstations UPN or WB, but as for all my locals, they show them all properly, and thats what matters. Granted I only just checked out 6 DMA's, and they all showed just fine.

One day Direct Will have real DVR's with useful and SUPPORTED working functions, and actually have some speed built into them as well. I am looking forward to seeing how MRV works out, and compare it to Dish's Multi-room Extender and TV Everywere adapter.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

sigma1914 said:


> NBA League Pass, NHL Center Ice, and MLB Extra Innings all include HD with no extra charge...and have more HD games then Dish.


Yes and none of them cost $300 up front like the NFL Sunday Ticket, that then requires $100 more for the HD feeds. Sunday Ticket would be the only League I would care for. So I just live with the $5.99 Multi-sports as I prefer the college game more, and the Redzone has been a great when I can't get the game I want to watch.

Lucky for me, I live close enough to LA to get both San Diego and LA stations OTA, so I get a good mix of options. A few times I have thought about upgrading to a 722k so I could record to OTA, now with the most recent Direct DVR's can you record 2 different OTA feeds?


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## cditty (Nov 27, 2009)

joshjr said:


> Its funny you mention that. D* don't have my DMA's locals either but E* does & I still choose D*. With a large antenna I can get my DMA and the DMA I really want.


And my antenna goes into my 722K OTA module, which lets me record 4 networks at once on that one receiver....


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## joshjr (Aug 2, 2008)

GrumpyBear said:


> *As for 4 tuner DVR's, Dish has had them for years, its called a 722k.* NFL Sunday ticket is cool, loved last yrs promo for it form Direct, great price, $300 or but if you actually want the games in HD please hand over another $100, sorry l love football, but thats just crazy, I will get the Multi-sports pack for college football, which includes the *Redzone at no extra charge for $5.99*, oh and no extra for the HD feeds. Could careless if some of the RSN's are part time, as I only watch during game time. I did forget I had read that 15th or 16th, Direct got VS back.
> 
> *Direct has had lots of new DVR's comeout, but they all still slow as molassas*, running up the Tree in January, and every firmware updates starts a new poll on just how slow they are. With all the new DVR's you would figure Direct would resolve some issues like Channels I get, Real DLB, PiP, They could stop throughing add's in the Guide, a remote thats layed out plainly, instead of having to learn button sequences, that are a single push on Dish. You would think that with all the new DVR's they would, update the controller so you external drive doesn't disable the internal HD, and would be smart enough to use a house code key so you could actually upgrade, your DVR and not have to lose everything.
> 
> ...


Correct me if I am wrong cause im not sure on this but isnt the 722K only capable of recording 2 OTA and 2 regular at the same time? Thats not really the 4 tuners that I am looking for although it would be nice. As for the Red Zone no you dont pay alot fir highlights lol only $5.99 a month. I perfer to watch games and just so you know people who frequent this site only paid $159 for NFL Sunday Ticket last season and that included SuperFan (games in HD) lol. Thats very reasonable.

As for the DVR's being slow with D* maybe you also havnt read the article on here for the HR24. It is suppost to be the fastes DVR D* has had yet. But seeing as how you missed we had versus back and it was on the front page of this forum how could I expect you to see that there was a new HD DVR out for D*. Im sure you guys are just used to just no new HD DVR's coming out so you would never check lol.

As for MSNBCHD I hate hockey but checked the lineup out that MSNBC had and it was nothing I would of watched anyways. Besides we will see who has what in HD in about another month or two when the new sat lights up.

You are curious about the MRV and I will be honest there is something that E* that interests me. If I read right being able to see whats on the DVR currently and almost full functionality from the web. Yes that is cool but nothing I would change providers for.

For me I want the one that is not losing a lawsuit to TiVo and is putting out new hardware regularly, striking deals with superior DVR companies (TiVo), putting up new satellites first for more HD CHannels, carrying the sports programming people want, not losing DNS feeds for violating terms, etc.

Give me the legit company that has alot to offer besides hardware. I need something to go with that hardware and not just a DVR that is good but everything else is lacking. To each their own and I am glad that you like D* its just not for me.


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## joshjr (Aug 2, 2008)

cditty said:


> And my antenna goes into my 722K OTA module, which lets me record 4 networks at once on that one receiver....


Isnt it 2 OTA tuners and the other 2 for any channel E* provides? Its not so you can record 4 shows in E*'s lineup right?


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## joshjr (Aug 2, 2008)

GrumpyBear said:


> Yes and none of them cost $300 up front like the NFL Sunday Ticket, that then requires $100 more for the HD feeds. Sunday Ticket would be the only League I would care for. So I just live with the $5.99 Multi-sports as I prefer the college game more, and the Redzone has been a great when I can't get the game I want to watch.
> 
> Lucky for me, I live close enough to LA to get both San Diego and LA stations OTA, so I get a good mix of options. A few times I have thought about upgrading to a 722k so I could record to OTA, *now with the most recent Direct DVR's can you record 2 different OTA feeds*?


Funny you mention that. D*'s first HD DVR the HR20 had the tuners built in to it for that. When they dropped the tuners in the future builds they added another reciever that you can add on for the tuners to be added back. There is no comparison as far as who is interested in making their hardware better and software really. E* is a slow mover in this area and D* has been making strides all along the way.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

joshjr said:


> Funny you mention that. D*'s first HD DVR the HR20 had the tuners built in to it for that. When they dropped the tuners in the future builds they added another reciever that you can add on for the tuners to be added back. There is no comparison as far as who is interested in making their hardware better and software really. E* is a slow mover in this area and D* has been making strides all along the way.


So Direct has the basic features like, Autotune, no add Guide, PiP, DLB(replay is a sorry replacement) able to record 4 Channels at once, Archive and backup support for your DVR, the ability to move your content to an upgraded DVR? Has Direct finally made a new DVR, where people don't have to run poll's on HOW SLOW does it go?

I do see Direct, making hardware changes that upsets people and several models and several years later they add the feature back. Examples are DLB's lame replacement in replay, and going for years developing new models without OTA option being built in. Dish has always had these options, Direct drops them and then brings them back like they are new or something, and forgetting to fix or resolve the very basics, like CIG, Autotune, DLB, PiP.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Grumpy, you fail to mention all your viewing habits are what makes Dish so great to you. You seem to discount all Directv's pluses because it something you don't like. You say FSC & BBCA are the best additions "PERIOD." :lol: Yet, IMO, those are worthless to me...notice I said IMO & to me. Heck, hardly anyone in America cares about soccer. Does this mean Dish & FSC are worthless? No. But you should realize some people want the choice of every NFL or MLB (excluding Fox Saturdays) game & will pay for it. Open your mind to other's wants.


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## RasputinAXP (Jan 23, 2008)

joshjr said:


> Funny you mention that. D*'s first HD DVR the HR20 had the tuners built in to it for that. When they dropped the tuners in the future builds they added another reciever that you can add on for the tuners to be added back. There is no comparison as far as who is interested in making their hardware better and software really. E* is a slow mover in this area and D* has been making strides all along the way.


You know...I think everybody knows what your stance is on Dish. Maybe next time a thread like this comes up you could possibly, I don't know...leave it alone instead of semi-trolling it? Thanks.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

joshjr said:


> Funny you mention that. D*'s first HD DVR the HR20 had the tuners built in to it for that. When they dropped the tuners in the future builds they added another reciever that you can add on for the tuners to be added back. There is no comparison as far as who is interested in making their hardware better and software really. E* is a slow mover in this area and D* has been making strides all along the way.


Here's another funny for you...

D*'s original design was 4 tuners (HR20), but you could only record 2 at once. That was such a great idea that they carried that same limitation up to and including the newest HR24 w/AM21. DUMB was the word I most often thought of in that design choice.

I left D* for one reason. It wasn't cost, channel choices, picture quality or any of the things that should have been part of the decision. I left because the HRxx up to the 23 all were a real PITA to operate. The HR24 is really an unknown because only the 'first look' team has actually seen and used them, and their reports have always been glowing about every model.

D* has to keep 'improving' their HR line because they haven't gotten it right!

As to the TIVO lawsuit, why do you care? It isn't affecting anyone now except TIVO and the E* suits and stockholders. It has zero effect on us that are subscribers.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

sigma1914 said:


> Grumpy, you fail to mention all your viewing habits are what makes Dish so great to you. You seem to discount all Directv's pluses because it something you don't like. You say FSC & BBCA are the best additions "PERIOD." :lol: Yet, IMO, those are worthless to me...notice I said IMO & to me. Heck, hardly anyone in America cares about soccer. Does this mean Dish & FSC are worthless? No. But you should realize some people want the choice of every NFL or MLB (excluding Fox Saturdays) game & will pay for it. Open your mind to other's wants.


I am not discounting when it comes to Hardware. Directs only feature that is even close to being advanced is MRV, a still unsupported option, that does work for most users, but will be another monthly added cost.

Dish's ViPDuo's series DVR, have always had OTA support, rather built in, or as an option, and you have always been able to record your OTA, and have at minimum 3 tuners. Dish didn't drop OTA for several years and bring it back as some sort of new thing. Dish has always had PiP, for sports what a fantastic feature. Dish has always had DLB, didn't drop it as a feature nobody wanted, and didn't spend years on work arounds and then replace it with a cheap copy that has to be activated before it turns on. 
Dish understands that when I spend my OWN money on an external drive, it should be used as an addtion to the drive already included, not as a replacement, that can't be moved with all the content if I want to upgrade, or for some hardware failure, things happen. 
Dish has done a much better job on viewing habits and understands not everything is a recording, Autotunes are fantastic, warnings about a show being in a buffer before an accidental channel change. I see no reason in having to put up being forced to see channels I don't subscribe too, Dish gets that part to, and allows, users to do no work on thier part and just see an All Sub in thier guide. Dish even gives you multiple ways record a show, that you are watching, and my have to leave before the end, you can record entire show, this point forward, or rewind to any point and record from that point.
So don't go an say well Dish hasn't put out a new DVR, while Direct has mnay DVR Recievers released, when Direct can't even get, Autotune, DLB, Buffer Warnings, Channels I get, PiP, and a DVR thats speed factor isn't timed using the minute hand, just starters.

Now for HD channels, my Personal viewing habits and wallet do come into play. I have no interest in NHL or MLB, I am a huge football, Soccer and Rugby fan, but if those sports are what you want, then you have no other choice. NFL Sunday Ticket always has my interest, the idea of Paying for it, and then paying even more on top to get the games in HD is one of the STUPIDEST things of all time.
NOW if you really are a BIG sports fan, and not only enjoy the sports, but want see any Pro game, in NFL, MLB, that you want, Direct is THE ONLY WAY to go.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

sigma1914 said:


> Heck, hardly anyone in America cares about soccer.









I responded to a similar inaccurate statement before, so I'll just repeat the response in the hope that enough people will read it that folks will quit making the mistake:


phrelin said:


> Apparently you weren't following the Fox Soccer Channel in HD (When on Dish?) thread. Besides being the major team sport in the world, 20+ million Americans play soccer at least occasionally while those who play 25 or more days a year are estimated to be 8 to 10 million depending on whose figures you use.
> 
> The critical years were in the '90's. Play on high school soccer teams soared 88% between 1990-91 and 2003-04, while registration on U.S. Youth Soccer Association teams climbed at an almost identical rate to nearly 3.2 million players in 2002-03.
> 
> ...


By the way, anyone ever wonder why the term "soccer moms" became so prevelant? See the Wikipedia entry which starts out:


> The phrase soccer mom broadly refers to a middle-class suburban woman who spends a significant amount of her time transporting her school-age children to their sporting events or other activities. Indices of American magazines and newspapers show relatively little usage of the term until a 1995 Denver city council election. It came into widespread use during the 1996 United States presidential election.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

LOL...You make it sound like DLB is a chore. Press down 2x...OH MY GOD, HOW HARD! And it does warn you a recording is starting. Autotune...really? If people need a reminder, record it...not hard. Also, not all DVRs are slow, mine is quite fast, & the 24s are reportedly very fast. OTA isn't huge to people if locals are on the sats. Not everyone gets reception. Last, to say MRV doesn't work for most users is not true. MRV with DECA is being deployed currently & reportedly works great.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

phrelin said:


> I responded to a similar inaccurate statement before, so I'll just repeat the response in the hope that enough people will read it that folks will quit making the mistake: By the way, anyone ever wonder why the term "soccer moms" became so prevelant? See the Wikipedia entry which starts out:


We're talking soccer and TV...Check the ratings & you'll see how irrelevant soccer is in America.

And I like soccer.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

sigma1914 said:


> LOL...You make it sound like DLB is a chore. Press down 2x...OH MY GOD, HOW HARD! And it does warn you a recording is starting. Autotune...really? If people need a reminder, record it...not hard. Also, not all DVRs are slow, mine is quite fast, & the 24s are reportedly very fast. OTA isn't huge to people if locals are on the sats. Not everyone gets reception. Last, to say MRV doesn't work for most users is not true. MRV with DECA is being deployed currently & reportedly works great.


DLB is a chore when the blasted remote response is irritatingly slow! And poll after poll right here in dbstalk says the same thing in overwhelming numbers.

And go re-read what he said about MRV, you got it wrong...


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

sigma1914 said:


> LOL...You make it sound like DLB is a chore. Press down 2x...OH MY GOD, HOW HARD! And it does warn you a recording is starting. Autotune...really? If people need a reminder, record it...not hard. Also, not all DVRs are slow, mine is quite fast, & the 24s are reportedly very fast. OTA isn't huge to people if locals are on the sats. Not everyone gets reception. Last, to say MRV doesn't work for most users is not true. MRV with DECA is being deployed currently & reportedly works great.


Didn't say Directs Replay was a chore, I said Direct removed DLB, as it was a feature that wasn't important. Then spent a couple of years coming up with work arounds, and finally replaced it with Replay, and its still something you have to activate before it starts buffering and not as good, its another work around, with no buffer warning. Sorry, its much easier just to press swap instead of having to multiple moves, granted a 2 button push isn't that much, but much easier to press a button that actually tells what it does and is clearly marked on your remote.

OTA is a personal choice, and Direct thought it wasn't that big of deal, yet from the get go they offered an external device for OTA, you just could record through it, and ended up bringing it back into the reciever so you could finally record OTA, sounds like once again OTA was more important than Direct thought. Dish's OTA gives you 3-4 tuners to record, so you can record a 1-2 locals if you want and have a 2nd Sat tuner to surf on if you want. Just move flexiblity.

Sorry Autotune is way to useful, why have a bunch of needless recordings or a bunch of partials. Autotunes are used to setup a show to just come on, if you are home great if not no big deal or if you get home late you can just rewind it, and if you are gone for sometime, you don't have to come home and delete a bunch of needless recordings, nor do you need to go and modify a your schedule before you go on a trip.

Some say the Direct DVR's aren't that slow, more say they are. The constant Polls are kind of proof of the fact, they aren't as speedy as they should be. None of them are as fast as a ViP DVR. You would think that if Direct is improving, and coming out with NEWER DVR's, and making better DVR's than Dish, the preformance would better than Dish's old tired DVR's.

Please re-read my post, I said MRV does work for most, it will just be another added cost. It will be interesting to compare MRV to Dish's, TV anywere adapter and Multi-room extender.

Now, if only I could get the NFL Sunday ticket, having PiP, 2 seperate buffers that can be paused, were I don't have to worry about an accidental buffer flush, that allows for speedy swapping between two close games or the end of one game, and watching the beginning of another, that allows for me to Autotune each tuner to turn to what game I want and don't have to endless and needless recordings. Now that would be great.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

sigma1914 said:


> We're talking soccer and TV...Check the ratings & you'll see how irrelevant soccer is in America.
> 
> And I like soccer.


Yes please check out both ESPN2's EPL ratings and FSC ratings. Both show good growth over the last 2 years.
ESPN is a VERY smart network and wouldn't spend the money they have spent on Soccer if they weren't sure of recouping money in the Ratings.

MLB ratings are nothing to get excited about either. Fox's rating last year was a whooping 1.5 rating.


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## butters (Sep 25, 2007)

I'd be a whole happier if my bill hadn't gone up $9 a month thanks to the new receiver fees. Other than that I have been quite happy.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

joshjr said:


> Isnt it 2 OTA tuners and the other 2 for any channel E* provides? Its not so you can record 4 shows in E*'s lineup right?


Maybe this will help

_The MT2 module adds off-air capability to new receivers that have no built-in tuner. With the module, both TV1 and TV2 can watch separate OTA channels at the same time. DVR models can record from both tuners for a total of 4 simultaneous HD recordings. •2 ATSC tuners._

So yes, you can record, 2 different OTA channels and 2 Sat Channels. For a total of 4 different tuners you can record at the sametime. So with OTA you have a minimum of 3 to a maximum of 4 tuners you can use your ViP DVR to record. Or record 2 or 3 and have a tuner left over to surf on. In my house Thursday nights, we record to different locals stations one Sat, one OTA for the wife and kids, and it leaves me a SAT tuner to watch what I want. Makes all much happier.

If I remember correctly, the HR20 which had OTA, wouldn't let you record 3 tuners, you still only had 2 you could record from. 
For those with OTA reception, AS NOT EVERYBODY does have OTA, this gives you much more flexiblity and gives you all the sub-channels that go along with a Station.

As for who, is making better leaps forward is still up for debate I guess. I still give the edge to Dish, as were they haven't had a new DVR reciever released, like Direct. Dish hasn't removed features built into the reciever. Direct has released new recievers that have removed features from older models on newer models, then 2-3 models later or years later, they add the feature back, and make it sound like its new. 
You don't see a string of Polls, about how slow Dish's ViP DVR's are and if the new model Reciever really is faster or not. You don't see Dish adding back a feature, as they don't remove them, they just keep enhancing the ones they already have, and making them better. Personally IMO, having more features and stable features are a good thing vs stripped down feature sets, and unsupported options.

As for Sports, Direct has it all down pat. With NO Competition


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

lparsons21 said:


> DLB is a chore when the blasted remote response is irritatingly slow! And poll after poll right here in dbstalk says the same thing in overwhelming numbers.
> 
> And go re-read what he said about MRV, you got it wrong...


I can't read...March Madness overload. :lol:



GrumpyBear said:


> Didn't say Directs Replay was a chore, I said Direct removed DLB, as it was a feature that wasn't important. Then spent a couple of years coming up with work arounds, and finally replaced it with Replay, and its still something you have to activate before it starts buffering and not as good, its another work around, with no buffer warning. Sorry, its much easier just to press swap instead of having to multiple moves, granted a 2 button push isn't that much, but much easier to press a button that actually tells what it does and is clearly marked on your remote.


What's this buffer dump you're going on about? It warns you that a recording is set, and you can stop either buffer. There's no need for a Swap button, since Down is what most DVR users were used to with Tivo.



> OTA is a personal choice and Direct thought it wasn't that big of deal, yet ended up bringing it back, sounds like once again OTA was more important than they thought. With Dish OTA gives you 3 tuners to record, so you can record a 2 locals if you want and have a 2nd Sat tuner to surf on if you want. Just move flexiblity.


They never brought it back...the HR20 had OTA & none since has had it built in. The AM21 is easy to install & setup for those who want it. Granted, you can't do like Dish and record with 4 tuners.



> Sorry Autotune is way to useful, why have a bunch of needless recordings or a bunch of partials. Autotunes are used to setup a show to just come on, if you are home great if not no big deal or if you get home late you can just rewind it, and if you are gone for sometime, you don't have to come home and delete a bunch of needless recordings, nor do you need to go and modify a your schedule before you go on a trip.


It's not hard to delete those recordings...Red button, Ok...2 presses. I still think it's useless on a DVR. It's useful on a non DVR, otherwise just record it.



> Some say the Direct DVR's aren't that slow, more say they are. The constant Polls are kind of proof of the fact, they aren't as speedy as they should be. None of them are as fast as a ViP DVR. You would think that if Direct is improving, and coming out with NEWER DVR's, and making better DVR's than Dish, the preformance better than Dish.


I don't know how much faster the HR24s can be? Users say they press a button and it happens. Yes...some HRs are sssslllloooowwww.



> Please re-read my post, I said MRV does work for most, it will just be another added cost. It will be interesting to compare MRV to Dish's, TV anywere adapter and Multi-room extender.


Again...I can't read...March Madness overload. :lol:
Is Dish's TV anywhere and MRV even in the feild, yet?



> Now, if only I could get the NFL Sunday ticket, having PiP, 2 seperate buffers that can be paused, were I don't have to worry about an accidental buffer flush, that allows for speedy swapping between two close games or the end of one game, and watching the beginning of another, that allows for me to Autotune each tuner to turn to what game I want and don't have to endless and needless recordings. Now that would be great.


For Directv...
Sunday Ticket...check.
PiP...Would be cool.
Two separate, pausable, no buffer flush with a warning...check.
Speedy swap buffer...check (under 1 second).
Autotune...nope.


GrumpyBear said:


> Yes please check out both ESPN2's EPL ratings and FSC ratings. Both show good growth over the last 2 years.
> ESPN is a VERY smart network and wouldn't spend the money they have spent on Soccer if they weren't sure of recouping money in the Ratings.
> 
> MLB ratings are nothing to get excited about either. Fox's rating last year was a whooping 1.5 rating.


I checked the ratings. 
http://www.matchextra.com/2010/03/espn2-epl-tv-ratings-august-‘09-to-february-‘10/
http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.co...on-espn2-continue-to-beat-premier-league/7046
They are bad. They do get better numbers on Spanish stations...but, MLS' 0.2 rating average for playoff games is bad, very bad. The highest MLS Cup rating was a 1.2 in 2001. A championship game got a 1.2! Last years was 0.9! Games 4 & 6 of the World Series in 2009 drew a 13.5 & 13.4...blowing away soccer. EPL games get low numbers, too. The MLS gets better ratings then EPL.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

Buffer warning I am talking about has nothing to do with recording's. 

With Dish if a Pause CBS while watching one football and and swap over to Fox to that game were you have it paused as well or, if You walk out of the room during a long commerical break, while watching a show or a game, were you have some buffer time in it. If by some accident somebody tries to change the channel, a warning pops up that would force the channel to go live 1st, and informing you the show is buffered, if you don't go live, you don't lose the buffer, and can safe guard a show.

This simple warning comes in very useful, when both swapping or by happen chance with other family members. Unless Direct has recently changed this and I will have to inform my Bother in law to update, Direct lets you change the with no warning when a show is buffered, and you lose the entire buffer. Sorry I want the buffer warning, which is coming in handy right now, jumping between CBS and CBS C right now, watching my Bracket get Shredded.

As for Autotune we will have to agree to disagree. Way to useful of a feature. We have the News and Weather channel set every morning, several shows during the day, News and other shows during the evening. IF home great, if not no big deal for some or if we are running late, we can just rewind to the beginning. I enjoy having the news up and running in the mornings, when I get up, rather I am up on time or running late. Samething for the evening news, I normally make it home in time, if I don't I just rewind it. Could careless about recording these shows, and would really rather not have to go through the schedule to stop/skip these autotunes, everytime I go on vacation, or weekend trip. 

Something I want to record is important, and I take the time to setup the recordings just the way I want with the options I want. Some shows are just entertaining, or just feel good shows. If home and its convienent and not watching something else I enjoy thise coming on. I don't want to have a bunch of recordings of these shows, as they are just for conviencence, DVR'ing happens in the background and could easily end up with lots of recordings I never wanted. Sure its easy to delete the shows, but why have to do that period?

Once again just another Feature that enhances viewing options, thats what a DVR is, a Device to enhance your viewing options and, the more options the more useful and flexible a DVR is.

Didn't say Soccer was replacing MLB. Soccer ratings are GOING up. Baseball rating on non Playoff games are dismal 1.5 rating. Sorry that is nothing to crow about.

I can totally understand about march madness effecting reading. Joshjr said that Direct had brought back OTA into the newer recievers, if this is wrong, sorry just going off of a Direct users comments, and the AM21 works but again a poor replacement for the cost, compared to the cost of the mt2 OTA module, and what it allows Dish users to do.


Granted I have UW and Gonzaga going further than most, so here is hoping, and here is to MARCH MADNESS.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Ahh...I see what you mean about the buffer warning. That's a cool feature, wish we had it.


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## olds403 (Nov 20, 2007)

Yes, I am relatively happy with them. Had dish since '02, HD since '08. I like my 722 and have had no customer service problems at all. They have always been helpful when I have had to call with an issue.


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## joshjr (Aug 2, 2008)

GrumpyBear said:


> Maybe this will help
> 
> _The MT2 module adds off-air capability to new receivers that have no built-in tuner. With the module, both TV1 and TV2 can watch separate OTA channels at the same time. DVR models can record from both tuners for a total of 4 simultaneous HD recordings. •2 ATSC tuners._
> 
> ...


So if D* stole from TiVo maybe they would be putting out less new hardware.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

joshjr said:


> So if D* stole from TiVo maybe they would be putting out less new hardware.


Or maybe putting out one piece of good hardware?


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

sigma1914 said:


> Ahh...I see what you mean about the buffer warning. That's a cool feature, wish we had it.


I totally agree with you on the premise of Dish or Direct for new users
_*If you like sports, then I suggest Directv.
If you like movies, then I suggest Dish.*_

Theres a little more to it like, locals, RSN's and such, but the premise is pretty accurate. For me its not the HD count, as they all play with the numbers partime HD vs PPV HD channels are just useless pads.

Features that make my life as flexible as I want are important. You are dead on my personal viewing habits are my own, some of the viewing habits are because of the flexibity of DVR I own. I am waiting to see how MRV gets Offically launched this summer, and what I mean by Offically, is its supported not Beta and Direct has announced the price for MRV. Its a SUPER useful feature, and with luck we can compare how sling enabled dvrs and attactments will work as well in comparison


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

GrumpyBear said:


> I am waiting to see how MRV gets Offically launched this summer, and what I mean by Offically, is its supported not Beta and Direct has announced the price for MRV. Its a SUPER useful feature, and with luck we can compare how sling enabled dvrs and attactments will work as well in comparison


Have you seen http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/content/directv/technology/multiroom? It's $3/month charge for the MRV feature. It's also $99 if you want "connected home" installed, which is install the hardware necessary to give you a DECA network. The pilot is currently in four markets and the nation wide is supposed to happen in May based on the rumers I've seen.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

RAD said:


> Have you seen http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/content/directv/technology/multiroom? It's $3/month charge for the MRV feature. It's also $99 if you want "connected home" installed, which is install the hardware necessary to give you a DECA network. The pilot is currently in four markets and the nation wide is supposed to happen in May based on the rumers I've seen.


Connected home? thats just for Deca right, you can still use your own home network?


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

GrumpyBear said:


> Connected home? thats just for Deca right, you can still use your own home network?


Connected Home is how DirecTV's branding their networking, and yes DECA is how they want to do it. From what I've seen posted you CAN use your own home network but it won't be supported by DirecTV.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

RAD said:


> Connected Home is how DirecTV's branding their networking, and yes DECA is how they want to do it. From what I've seen posted you CAN use your own home network but it won't be supported by DirecTV.


Rad,
Thanks for the link, and I found the $3 MRV thread as well, interesting reading. Never ceases to amaze me how people go on a tirade about spending money on something they aren't going to buy. 
MRV is a cool feature I am jealous about, and its a price thats exceptable, and is a feature that is big step forward. COME ON DISH, lets get slingout there and see how it competes.

Kind of Sad to read that Direct may not push the advertisment over it, due to the unsupported home network option. Sad only because I believe competition drives others to advance more, and this would put more pressure on Dish.
I think its better to have an unsupported HomeNetwork option and limited advertisment for MRV, vs forcing everybody to pay $99 for DECA.
Really had to read the fine print,* Limit one remote viewing per HD DVR. HD Access ($10/mo.), DVR service ($7/mo.) and Multi-Room DVR service ($3/mo.) required. Lease fee of $5/mo. required for 2nd and each additional receiver. Hardware and programming available separately. Other conditions apply. * but its clear the $3 is for the entire home and not reciever, was a little bit confusing.

I am still happy with Dish, and waiting on Sling enabled devices and Multi-room adapters. Both in pricing and how they work in the real world. This could push me into considering some features vs home distribution and which is more important.

Disregard my post about connected home? I didn't mean to ask that one as I thought I would just go and read. Thanks for the answer though.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

GrumpyBear said:


> I am still happy with Dish, and waiting on Sling enabled devices and Multi-room adapters. Both in pricing and how they work in the real world. This could push me into considering some features vs home distribution and which is more important.


IMHO one big advantage that DirecTV has on the multi room feature is that all existing HR2X's, H21 and H23's will be able to use it with a software upgrade and network connection. So if you don't need DECA, no additional hardware expenses if they're already network connected. Looking at Dish it looks like you need to purchase the client piece at any TV you want to use MRV at plus a 922 or a Sling server. Shouldn't be too much longer I would think since the rumors are 4/1 for 922 availability to see what pricing is going to be for Dishs solution.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

From the little I've read, I think the Vip722K will be software upgradeable to do the sling features also. I could be wrong though, as it isn't something I'm really interested in having.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

joshjr said:


> So if D* stole from TiVo maybe they would be putting out less new hardware.


Tivo vs Echostar is a different subject, and also has nothing to do with new models, as depending on how it ends up, would be number of recievers, and as you can see Dish/Echostar haven't slowed down in leasing/selling of the recievers.

Dish has done a good job in NOT releasing new recievers with less features, just to release newer recievers with some features restored and others sitll missing. When a company comes up with new product it should always be moving forward with features and technology. New equipment that is a sideways move or even backwards, isn't really that smart of a thing to do.

Dish's 622/722's maybe long in the tooth by some accounts, my own as well, but they are still after years of service, head and shoulders faster, and have more features than most other NEWER DVR's.

Some newer DVR's don't even have basic features, like Autotune, DLB, PiP, buffer warning, Archive Harddrives, OTA options, Multiple ways record live shows, record entire show, record this point forward or rewind and record just a few minutes. They don't even have remotes that are clearly marked, so a user doesn't have to memorize button sequences to access a feature, or when they do press a button the button does what its supposed to, and doesn't just make a noise at you with no feedback.

Some newer DVR's don't even offer simple things like Channels I get, or offer you while onscreen Browsing the ablity to see whats current and whats next on the screen at the sametime.

You would think when releasing NEW recievers companies would actual make the new model BETTER and with more features and advancing the product instead of a new reciever with fewer features and is mostly a product software fix.

If your willing to spend $100's of dollars for an extra Sports package to make sure you get the games you want, Dish has NOTHING for you, when out of your market. Like my wife pointed out, we use the saved money on newer TV's, newer Laptops, newer Hometheater recievers. So its a trade off.


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## dough_boy747 (Jun 18, 2004)

I am happy with dish network, I have been with them for about 8 years now, i couldn't ask for any better eervice, i have a vip722 reciever, it does work fine and all. But since last summer of 7/01/09. i have been told that dish network has uplinked 150 155 Bluefield/Beckley/Oak Hill, WV. Locals for this state, and for smereasn we haven't seen them yet, But Dirct tv has them since October, if nothing don't change i am going to go back to them this summer if they dont get them soon. And would hat to do that but we do need our locals were we live, :nono:


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

packerfan31 said:


> I just want to know of the people that are happy with dish network. I have the vip722 receiver. I had one that had reboot problem. other than that I am happy with them.


I'm extremely happy with Dish because have more HD movie channels then anyone else.


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

butters said:


> I've been with Dish for over 5 years and am still running two 322s with no issues. I rarely have to reboot them and other than occasional rain/snow fade it rarely goes out. There are lots of things I would do to improve the service but overall I like the service compared to the alternatives out there. I am contemplating going to HD and DVR but am awaiting the price increase and trying to convince my wife that we need them!


Once you go HD you're spoiled. Trust me!


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

jrb531 said:


> Years with Dish and I tried Uverse for over a year (still have them for phone/internet) and I just came back to Dish.
> 
> When working Uverse is a marvel but we never went a single month without losing the TV or Phone. In the end I think it was the fact that we were heavy users with 4 TV's and often has all 4 TV's in use along with the Internet. It only takes one to cause you to lose sync and then everything goes to pot.
> 
> ...


I hate U-verse!


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

GrumpyBear said:


> So Direct has the basic features like, Autotune, no add Guide, PiP, DLB(replay is a sorry replacement) able to record 4 Channels at once, Archive and backup support for your DVR, the ability to move your content to an upgraded DVR? Has Direct finally made a new DVR, where people don't have to run poll's on HOW SLOW does it go?
> 
> I do see Direct, making hardware changes that upsets people and several models and several years later they add the feature back. Examples are DLB's lame replacement in replay, and going for years developing new models without OTA option being built in. Dish has always had these options, Direct drops them and then brings them back like they are new or something, and forgetting to fix or resolve the very basics, like CIG, Autotune, DLB, PiP.


For me Autotune is the best thing. PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

Paul Secic said:


> For me Autotune is the best thing. PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!


Until you have it, you just don't realize just how useful it really is.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

As a fellow wheelchair user, like Paul, I can now see a value to Autotune. It's not easy for everyone to change channels. I've dropped my remote and been stuck with 1 channel before...Now I see it's benefit.


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## jchambers2586 (Aug 2, 2009)

I am happy because I do not like cox and direc tv cost too much to start service.


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

GrumpyBear said:


> Until you have it, you just don't realize just how useful it really is.


You're so right!


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## aaronbud (Nov 3, 2006)

I have been with Dish since 1997, and overall I would say it's been good. I am a little peeved at the pricing changes the last month or so, seems like I'm now paying a little more for the same product. Also, I want MLB network!


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## karrank% (Sep 20, 2009)

With you on that , we switched over from D* in Sept and everything's improved EXCEPT for that (in my household anyway) glaring omission. We especially liked the surprise of having a DVR capability in our 211-K.


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## nneptune (Mar 30, 2006)

I'm ELATED to be back with DISH!
I've had E* at my house since '96. Then came divorce.

I got my own apartment and tried to get DISH here, but my name was on
the other account, and they wanted me to jump through hoops to have an account... very long story that I'll spare you.

I started here with the local cable company. Awful.

DirecTV had given me a good offer and free installation, so I tried them out.
I did several years ago, and hated it then... but all of the equipment was new generation.

The lag on the D* receivers was ridiculous!

The only plus was that my locals were all in HD, which they aren't yet with DISH.

But, I called the right CSR, who gave me a new account and counted me as a new customer!

To take the batteries out of the D* remote felt good, and DISH was here within 24 hours to install!

As soon as the familiar user interface popped up on my screen, and the platinum remote was in my hand, I felt damn good! So, yeah...I'm really happy (except for the HD locals) right now.

I've tried the others, and DISH fits me. No lag, lots of HD channels (who really has the most HD channels out of the 2, since they both claim to have more?), and a happy guy.


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