# How is CC working for you with L6.17?



## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

It appears that L6.17 includes a CC fix. So use this thread to report how the Fix has addressed your CC issue. When you report include the following.

What channels were you having problems, appear to be fixed? 
What channels are you still seeing CC issues (Be Specific and include DMA)?
What is your receiver?


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## dschneider (Aug 23, 2007)

Here again below are my comments on the current CC function with L6.17 for this new dedicated thread. *Also wanted to add that I still have no CCs on HGTV HD (SD is OK).*

The good news is that 6.17 seems to have fixed the problems with CCs on the various HD Movie Premiums feeds (HBO HD, MAX HD, STARZ HD, AND SHO HD plus all the related multiple HD movie feeds) that have been broken in recent months.

The bad news, is that now I have no and/or messed up CCs on my local channel HD stations for NBC and CBS. The problem affects only the DISH HD feed for those two stations -- CCs on the SD versions as well as OTA being fed thru my 722 are OK. So the problem seems to be related to the satellite feed of those two networks.

ABC and FOX HD are both OK. In my area, NBC and CBS HD are 1080, and ABC and FOX HD are 720, so I my guess would be that it is a 720/1080 decoding issue.

Wash DC Area
VIP 722 with Dish HD Locals
L6.17


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## langlin (Apr 8, 2005)

I have had CC problems for the past few months, it was always noticed on a DVR playback from locals. If I was not recording I could reboot the 622 and the captions would return so it seemed the recording was ok. I don't have a log of which but last night we viewed a NBC OTA recording and captions were ok then viewed a CBS recorded from satellite feed dish recording and the caption were not there. we were recording so I could try the reboot. I'm in San Antonio. I don't even know how old the shows were, our viewing is exclusely from DVR and we have a large backlog of network shows to view at the rate of a couple a night. In the past we have noticed the problem on CBS, NBC and PBS shows. We enjoy the English mystery shows on PBS and really need the CC to keep up with the cockney and Scottish dialog .


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## olguy (Jan 9, 2006)

One of my 622s got 6.17 last night. A quick tour of the premium HD channels HBO, etc and it looks like the CC problem was taken care of. Plus I was trying to watch XIII which last night that had been recorded Sunday night on NBC and there were problems with CC. This morning I tried and while slow getting started CC seemed to work fine.


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## shortspark (Oct 25, 2006)

I must have received my update last night. This morning I did a quick check of the channels I was having problems with (mostly HD such as HBO) and all seemed to now work properly. Tonight I will see if my locals are affected.


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## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

The rollout has reached my ViP622 that is most active and which often has CC on (Previously hit only the one in my bedroom where I rarely have CC on). Its hard to be sure but the CC seems more solid than before, previously saw lots of overruns and scrambled words that made it impossible to read some of the captions.


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## russ9 (Jan 28, 2004)

2 days ago the CC stopped working on CNBCHD. Today I got 6.17 and it is now working again


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## olguy (Jan 9, 2006)

olguy said:


> One of my 622s got 6.17 last night. A quick tour of the premium HD channels HBO, etc and it looks like the CC problem was taken care of. Plus I was trying to watch XIII which last night that had been recorded Sunday night on NBC and there were problems with CC. This morning I tried and while slow getting started CC seemed to work fine.


Update: I started watching XIII tonight and CC worked fine. A bit later my wife came in and wanted to watch Lost recorded last night off our ABC affiliate and CC worked fine. Then we watched New Adventures of Old Christine recorded last night off our local CBS via satellite. No CC. That was followed by Gary Unmarried from last night off our CBS station via OTA. CC worked fine. I then watched the remaining hour and a half of XIII and CC did not work. I turned the 622 off and back on and it still didn't work. I was recording something so I couldn't do a re-boot.

I just checked several channels. CC did not work on our local NBC or CBS via satellite. It worked on our local PBS, local ABC, Sci-Fi Channel and a couple of others via satellite. And strangely, it works on our local CBS via OTA through the 622. But not local CBS via satellite. I'm recording Eleventh Hour via OTA so I can't try the other locals via OTA just now.

I'll update tomorrow when I can try all the locals via OTA.


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## olguy (Jan 9, 2006)

Update II: Okay, this morning there is no change. My local CBS and NBC via satellite have no CC. Local ABC, PBS and Fox do. All 5 have CC OTA via the 622 so it looks like it's somewhere between here, there and back down to here on a couple of my locals. So is the email [email protected]? Don't want to rant but to pass on this info.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

DOes not look like a rant to me olguy. Just your experience. Do you still have the same XIII on your TV. If so can you reboot your box and check the posts where you had and did not have CC and see if the spots were CC and no CC are repeatable. Definitely would be a good data point.


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## olguy (Jan 9, 2006)

Ron Barry said:


> DOes not look like a rant to me olguy. Just your experience. Do you still have the same XIII on your TV. If so can you reboot your box and check the posts where you had and did not have CC and see if the spots were CC and no CC are repeatable. Definitely would be a good data point.


Oops. I thought of that just as I hit delete last night. As my 50 year old son frequently says "damn it's fun bein' around old people." Anyway, I just unplugged and waited a bit and rebooted. No change in the locals live. And last night's ER recorded from our NBC local via satellite has no CC. And last night's Grey's Anatomy recorded from ABC local has CC. But HBO HDs all work now :hair:


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## dschneider (Aug 23, 2007)

An update on CCs w/6.17 in the Wash DC area:

Still having problems with NBC and CBS HD, Dish HD feed only (SD and OTA HD thru 722 are OK). What I figured out is that CCs on these two channels behave differently depending on whether they are realtime CCs (like news, Today, talk shows, etc) or scripted (primetime comedies, dramas, etc).

For realtime, CBS HD CCs are OK, but NBC HD CCs are absent. NBC HD CCs may be present when TV is first turned on, but pressing Cancel, etc will take them out. They will start again however with either a reboot, or when coming back from a commercial or related break.

For scripted (mostly primetime), both CBS and NBC HDs can be slow to start and get in synch, but eventually work themselves out OK. However, at some point, CCs seem to crash completely and can only be restarted with a reboot. I have not been able to pinpoint what causes the crash, but suspect it has to do with timers firing as they do for me during typical primetime activity. Of course it is a PITA rebooting while trying to record, so once this happens, that's it for me for NBC and CBS HD for the evening (both live and recorded). Note that even during the full crash, CCs are fine on ABC and FOX HD.

Interesting details noted: During daytime programming such as Today, after CCs go out due to hitting Cancel, etc, in addition to rebooting or waiting for commercials, you can also get them to come back by playing a recorded NBC HD scripted show (eg, ER) briefly showing CCs, stop the recording, and then CCs on the original live NBC HD will be back. Seems it is able to "learn" from the recorded scripted programmings and then display properly, at least until Cancel, etc. is hit on the remote.

Another interesting observation -- contrary to the above poster, I do not have CCs on CNBC HD with 6.17. In fact, if I merely tune into that channel or a timer fires for it, it completely knocks out the CCs for both NBC and CBS HD requiring a reboot.

The problem in general seems to be that the decoder can no longer determine "mid-stream" how to handle decoding on these channels. Whatever they did to fix the premium/movie HDs, broke some of the local HDs . . .

Anybody notice problems with non-local HD CCs other than CNBC HD? This is the only one I have noticed. BTW, HGTV HD CCs were finally fixed for me on Thursday (as per my ongoing communication with engineering). That one appears to have been a transmission problem unrelated to 6.17.


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## olguy (Jan 9, 2006)

Anoter update. It seems as though it makes no difference if a program is network feed or local programming. If CC works it works on both. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work on either. And again, CC works on my local affiliates OTA via the 622.

As of yet I have no response to an email I sent to [email protected]. Does someone have another email I can try? Engineering would be a good one. Not sure if it would do any good to send one to Charlie


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## shortspark (Oct 25, 2006)

It is clear we need a standard. If some channels provide good CC via Dish then the technology is there for all channels and broadcasts. I don't know how this stuff works but if it works for some it can work for all. The Gov't has to tell each station and provider to adhere to the CC standard that works instead of each doing their own thing.


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## olguy (Jan 9, 2006)

shortspark said:


> It is clear we need a standard. If some channels provide good CC via Dish then the technology is there for all channels and broadcasts. I don't know how this stuff works but if it works for some it can work for all. The Gov't has to tell each station and provider to adhere to the CC standard that works instead of each doing their own thing.


I'm not sure about the stations doing their own thing. But Dish definitely is. And because broadcast CC will not work with HDMI or component, the FCC requires all satellite and cable companies that provide retransmitted programming to provide CC.

My current frustration is caused by a couple of things. First, CC did work on all my locals via satellite recorded or live, network feed or local programming prior to 6.17 but not after. The other thing is CC works on all my locals recorded or live, network feed or local programming OTA via the 622.


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## shortspark (Oct 25, 2006)

olguy said:


> I'm not sure about the stations doing their own thing. But Dish definitely is. And because broadcast CC will not work with HDMI or component, the FCC requires all satellite and cable companies that provide retransmitted programming to provide CC.
> 
> My current frustration is caused by a couple of things. First, CC did work on all my locals via satellite recorded or live, network feed or local programming prior to 6.17 but not after. The other thing is CC works on all my locals recorded or live, network feed or local programming OTA via the 622.


I have noticed a big improvement with CC since 6.17 but I am not in the same boat as you. I get all my locals OTA via the 622 and do not subscribe to the Dish locals. I live way out in the country but I have a deep fringe Channel Master with rotor atop a 60' tower. This brings in all the "locals" (about five stations) I would get with Dish except PBS and maybe one or two others that are not locals per se but would come with the package.

I don't subscribe to locals with Dish because our market is so small we will never get HD through them and my OTA HD is perfect. But, I can see the frustration in having HBO and other such channels being fixed but in so doing screwing up the local CCs. Even with my hearing aids on I have to use CC for most programs or I'm lost and that is why I wanted a standard. I still say if CC works on some channels it ought to work on all.


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## olguy (Jan 9, 2006)

shortspark said:


> I still say if CC works on some channels it ought to work on all.


I'm with you on that. Right now OTA is a mixed bag for me. I was getting the CBS affiliate at 100% strength but noticed today it was down around 80. And the NBC affiliate was 75 or so and today it's around 95. Maybe if the idiots in congress ever let them finish the transition to digital the signals will settle down.

My problem is that there are a few nights that I'm recording 2 of the locals so OTA only won't get it. And occasionally I record 3 of them.


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## moman19 (Oct 22, 2004)

Results are spotty as of this Sunday evening....

The Good news: ABC Prime Time shows, which often had zero CC here in St. Louis (HD and sat) now seem to be working 99% of the time. I do notice sentences dropping an occasional word but this is a major improvement.

The Bad news: There is now no CC on CBS Prime Time Events (HD or sat). Zero! CC seems to flash very briefly with each new sentence, but not long enough to read the first word.


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## olguy (Jan 9, 2006)

Well, I did get a response to my email this morning. The responder stated the information will be forwarded to the Locals Engineering Department. I'll let you know how it goes from here.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Remember. There is a thread to report specific channels. Be sure to use it to update channels that are working or have stopped working.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=149678&highlight=CC


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

dschneider said:


> An update on CCs w/6.17 in the Wash DC area:
> 
> .........
> 
> Anybody notice problems with non-local HD CCs other than CNBC HD? This is the only one I have noticed. BTW, HGTV HD CCs were finally fixed for me on Thursday (as per my ongoing communication with engineering). That one appears to have been a transmission problem unrelated to 6.17.


Excellent post dschneider. Excellent details and you might have a trigger in it. By Crash.. Do you mean CC stops working? Crash usually has a specific meaning referring to the box freezing or rebooting. I assume that is not happening right?


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## Avillant (May 21, 2004)

I just got 6.17 last night in both of my 622's. At last CC seems to be working great. My major problem used to be that CC would stop working and require a reset to get started again. That hasn't happened yet? I really need CC and I was at the point where I was thinking of going to Directv.
Tony


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## olguy (Jan 9, 2006)

My 2nd 622 got 617 last night. And now CC doesn't work on the Houston CBS and NBC local affiliates on it either.


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## Avillant (May 21, 2004)

There is a serious bug in 6.17 which allows you to get CC on playback if the program recorded was an OTA recorded local HD program, However, if the program was a local HD station received over the satellite, you will get NO CC when you play the recording back.

I checked out 3 or 4 of the regular channels in the HBO area and they seem to be okay. If you play a recorded channel, you will get CC if they are turned on.

I hope you can get the word to them so they can fix this ASAP since I really need my CC.

I have two 622's and they both act the same.HD


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## Avillant (May 21, 2004)

This AM I did some more checking and now it is obvious why I got no CC on the HD local channels from the satellite -- there are no CC on the satellite HD local channels. Once in a while there is a glimmer of them, but not anything you could read.
I think this explains all of the loss of CC from other viewers of HD local channels. The reason I didn't see this yesterday is that during the day, I watch only the OTA local HD channels.
Tony


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## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

Avillant said:


> There is a serious bug in 6.17 which allows you to get CC on playback if the program recorded was an OTA recorded local HD program, However, if the program was a local HD station received over the satellite, you will get NO CC when you play the recording back.
> 
> I checked out 3 or 4 of the regular channels in the HBO area and they seem to be okay. If you play a recorded channel, you will get CC if they are turned on.
> 
> ...


ITs not as simple as that. No problem here in NY. And if your HD LiL is recent it may be that they have not added the CC yet. They are allowed a little time before they must have CC on stations they add.


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## moman19 (Oct 22, 2004)

Avillant said:


> This AM I did some more checking and now it is obvious why I got no CC on the HD local channels from the satellite -- there are no CC on the satellite HD local channels. Once in a while there is a glimmer of them, but not anything you could read.
> I think this explains all of the loss of CC from other viewers of HD local channels. The reason I didn't see this yesterday is that during the day, I watch only the OTA local HD channels.
> Tony


Not true here in St. Louis. While CC isn't perfect, it does exist on the HD locals via sat. I use it all the time (when it works).


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## ZBoomer (Feb 21, 2008)

Finally got 6.17 on my 722, and it improved CC, at least on HBO. I had a show recorded from a few days ago, and with 6.16 CC were unwatchable, staying on the screen for milliseconds, if at all. Today they work fine on the same program.

It remains to be seen what the rest of my channels do...


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## cornflakes (Sep 30, 2005)

I got 6.17 but it hasn't improved the captioning delay on KTTV Fox 11 in Los Angeles, especially on the local syndicated shows (Malcolm in the Middle, The Simpsons, etc.). This was happening before the upgrade as well. I suspect it's more likely something from the station rather than a software issue but just in case I thought I'd mention it.


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## Avillant (May 21, 2004)

Yesterday morning, I did not have CC on any of my local HD stations over the satellitle. At the end of the day, I noticed that I did have CC on my ABC HD local station and my FOX HD local station. I have no CC on my CBS or NBC HD local stations.
Early this AM I had CC on all 4 HD local stations from the satellite, but that didn't last long. CC on the local HD CBS and NBC stations have disapeared. Luckily CC on ABC and FOX apear to be stable. 
Don't know what I will have tonight. Luckily CC on all my OTA HD stations is stable.
Tony


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## minnowgt (Feb 20, 2009)

CC is a hit or miss. when i first go the 6.17 update - it totally screwed up my 622 - wouldnt show cc, none of my scheduled programming taped.

did a hard reset of the system as I saw someone mention. fixed the 622 for a little while - was getting captioning on most channels and the recordings were fine again. I use both dish local and ota locals. want to record 2 shows and still be able to watch tv.

then the past day there's no captioning again. none of the CSIs recorded this week from the dish station had captioning on it. going to try resetting the dish again. not that happy at the moment with my 622.


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## Chevy1965 (Apr 26, 2008)

I was constantly annoyed with cc on 6.15 and 6.16. I have been very happy with 6.17. Big improvement for me across the board.


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## dschneider (Aug 23, 2007)

Ron Barry said:


> Excellent post dschneider. Excellent details and you might have a trigger in it. By Crash.. Do you mean CC stops working? Crash usually has a specific meaning referring to the box freezing or rebooting. I assume that is not happening right?


Sorry for delay -- been out of town for a while. Yes, I meant just that the CCs disappear and only a reboot will restore them with whatever functionality (full or limited) they had originally. Haven't heard anything from engineering since my return home, but it is now going on a month since 6.17 downloaded and I started reporting back to them about the problems. Sure wish they would fix this mess . . . .


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## Avillant (May 21, 2004)

As before, the ABC and FOX HDlocals on satellite work fine. The CBS and NBC HD locals on satellite do not work at all. At times, CC on CBS starts to work and after a few minutes decays into gibberish.

Thankfully CC on OTA HD locals continue to work fine. I wish they would get this fixed. I need CC because of a hearing problem.

6.17 did seem to fix my problem where CC would just disappear and would require a reset to get them back. At least this is a step in the right direction. Also CC problems on HBO etc. seem to be fixed as well. If they would just fix CC on the ABC and NBC sat. locals, I would be happy.


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## Grandude (Oct 21, 2004)

My only problem with CC now is that it sometimes takes a minute or two before it settles down and runs OK.


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## Avillant (May 21, 2004)

Well finally, CC on all local HD channels on satellite seem to be working!! I can only hope it stays this way. Why did it take so long??


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## bhodgins (Nov 29, 2005)

the fact that CC is greatly improved without another firmware download leads me to believe some of the current problems were in the transmission of the CC signal, not in the VIP 622 decoding of it.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Well personally I feel there is multiple issue with CC. One was definitely addressed by the software fix and perhaps some are upstream. As for why so long. HD is definitely a different bread when it come to CC in terms of both the receiver and the sending equipment.. Dish definitely appears to be struggling to get the wrinkles ironed out.


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## olguy (Jan 9, 2006)

Given that, in my case in Houston at least, CC on OTA via the 622 works on the CBS and NBC locals while it doesn't work on these locals via satellite I have to think it's between the locals, Dish and my 622. Somewhere. As an aside, it looks like CC is starting to work in spurts on the Houston CBS via satellite and the few minutes I watched of ER it appears to be working on Houston's NBC affiliate. More later.


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## Chevy1965 (Apr 26, 2008)

Although there has been much improvement, after 2 weeks on 6.17, I am still seeing two cc problems in the Chicago market. 

Every couple of sentences has missing characters. This is very consistent on all SAT channels but does not seem to occur on OTA. I saw this occasionally pre-6.17 (when cc worked), but now it is always there. Usually 4-5 letters missing in the middle of a sentence. I still have some hearing, so it is just a nusance, but if I was deaf, this would be horrible.

MGM-HD NEVER has cc.


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