# If FIOS comes your way, are you jumping ship?



## ciurca (Apr 14, 2009)

I only ask this because the guy who installed my system earlier this month talked about it then. He wants to work as a FIOS installer and wants FIOS TV bad.

Personally, I am blown away by the whole Direct TV experience compared to my old HD DVR service with Comcast. 

Anyone here considering?


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## say-what (Dec 14, 2006)

FIOS, U-Verse - doesn't matter, I have no interest in switching.


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## braven (Apr 9, 2007)

Nope.


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## Spanky_Partain (Dec 7, 2006)

I never shut a door and I always look for the best bang for my buck. My answer is a definite Maybe!


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## jodyguercio (Aug 16, 2007)

I'm in a U-Verse area and have thought about switching when my commitment is up but I will have to do some more research before I make the decision.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

Probably not.

I have everything setup the way I want and they would have to come up with something really great for me to switch.

Also we don't have Verizon in my area so the possibility to getting FiOS is about nil. 

Mike


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Nope.

I've had FIOS capability here for 5 years. There's nothing they offer that's better for me than what D* has, but D* has many things that are better than what FIOS has.


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## keithtd (Dec 16, 2006)

I have to go along with Spanky_Partain. The one-upsmanship D* has for me is NFLST.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I have had FiOS in my front yard for over 2 years. No thought of switching.


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## ccsoftball7 (Apr 2, 2003)

No Sunday Ticket...no switching.


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## pfp (Apr 28, 2009)

I wouldn't rule anything out but with MRV right around the corner and nearly every channel I care about in HD I just don't see any reason why right now.


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## fornold (Sep 4, 2006)

Not for TV.

Would love their internet service though.


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## VeniceDre (Aug 16, 2006)

Verizon just had my place wired for Fios last week. I'll probably use it for internet but I have no plans to change over from DirecTV.


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## Mertzen (Dec 8, 2006)

Unless TWC follows cablevision in DOCSIS3 then I'd consider FIOS for their 20/20 internet. Never for TV though.
I do think FIOS is a while out, I'm in a lesser of the NYC neighborhoods revenue wise.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

fornold said:


> Would love their internet service though.


Yes, I do use that and it's very good.


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## mdavej (Jan 31, 2007)

If FIOS was available to me today, then yes, I'd switch in a heartbeat. If D* improves their SD PQ before FIOS gets here, then no, I'd stay, but I'm not holding my breath.


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## 549 (Dec 8, 2007)

I tried FIOS out 6 months ago. I've had DTV for ~8 years. It just didn't match up. The DVR was not very good. Didn't have a very large capacity, was hard to use and didn't have a lot of options. The picture and channels selection was great. The On Demand content was pretty disappointing. Finally the MVR didn't work real well. You had little ability to use the remote from another room. Every button took 5-10 seconds to respond. After a month I canceled the FIOS TV.


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## PCampbell (Nov 18, 2006)

Nope!


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## Hutchinshouse (Sep 28, 2006)

spartanstew said:


> Nope.
> 
> I've had FIOS capability here for 5 years. *There's nothing they offer that's better for me than what D* has*, but D* has many things that are better than what FIOS has.


Less compressed higher quality HD 

I'd switch in a heartbeat. Picture quality trumps all....!

Too bad it's not in my area.


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## oldschoolecw (Jan 25, 2007)

fornold said:


> Not for TV.
> 
> Would love their internet service though.


Same here


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Hutchinshouse said:


> Less compressed higher quality HD
> 
> I'd switch in a heartbeat. Picture quality trumps all....!
> 
> Too bad it's not in my area.


That's marketing hype, mostly. Trust me, I've compared FIOS to D* (Mpeg4) hundreds of times since I'm surrounded by FIOS and set up and calibrate most of my neighbors equipment. D*'s HD is just as good. PQ is very important to me too, especially on my 126" screen. If FIOS was noticeably better I would have switched long ago.


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## kevinwmsn (Aug 19, 2006)

mdavej said:


> If FIOS was available to me today, then yes, I'd switch in a heartbeat. If D* improves their SD PQ before FIOS gets here, then no, I'd stay, but I'm not holding my breath.


I wouldn't expect D* improving their SD PQ anytime soon. With D12 launching in a few months, most of channels will be in HD. I wish FIOS was offered around here, it would kill Mediacomm and probably ATT(which doesn't offer UVerse down here). I wouldn't say I would jump ship, but it would interesting to take their DVR and HD Lineup for a test drive. I would jump for their internet if it came around.


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## joed32 (Jul 27, 2006)

I go where Sunday Ticket goes.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

FiOS sends a letter at least once per week. They call at least once per month (they called yesterday for the 100th time!). They leave a flyer at the door at least once per month.

Have carefully considered and IMHO, DirecTV is #1 based on better DVR technology (and vision), MLB EI HD, and NFL Sunday Ticket HD.

I always want the "best" and DirecTV has always won the comparison.


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## mhaines1 (Feb 6, 2008)

I have FIOS internet and it is the best thing since sliced bread. Too much invested in D* to consider switching to FIOS TV. I have no complaints with D*!


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## pfp (Apr 28, 2009)

mhaines1 said:


> Too much invested in D* to consider switching to FIOS TV.


That's most definitely another consideration with these $200 "leased" receivers.


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## Steveknj (Nov 14, 2006)

Mertzen said:


> Unless TWC follows cablevision in DOCSIS3 then I'd consider FIOS for their 20/20 internet. Never for TV though.
> I do think FIOS is a while out, I'm in a lesser of the NYC neighborhoods revenue wise.


What is DOCSIS3? I have Cablevision and I'm not sure what that means.

I wouldn't rule anything out, but there would have to be a cost savings for equivalent service, including the HD I want, and the stations I would want without losing ones I want. I might consider them for FIOS if it was cheaper, faster and more reliable than Opt Online.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

Steveknj said:


> What is DOCSIS3? I have Cablevision and I'm not sure what that means.
> 
> I wouldn't rule anything out, but there would have to be a cost savings for equivalent service, including the HD I want, and the stations I would want without losing ones I want. I might consider them for FIOS if it was cheaper, faster and more reliable than Opt Online.


http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/New-DOCSIS-3-Chipset-320Mbps-97748

Here ya go. 

Mike


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## Mertzen (Dec 8, 2006)

Steveknj said:


> What is DOCSIS3? I have Cablevision and I'm not sure what that means.
> 
> .


From Engadget:

_Tt looks like the East Coast's Cablevision's decided to play things a little differently than Comcast and Time Warner: it's just announced that uncapped 101Mbps DOCSIS 3.0 service will be rolling out on May 11 across its entire service area. The best part? It'll cost $99 a month, making it faster and cheaper than any other high-speed package we can think of -- 50Mbps service from Comcast and Verizon is around $140._

http://www.engadget.com/2009/04/28/cablevision-loves-you-will-offer-99-101mbps-uncapped-internet/


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## Humnahey (Aug 26, 2006)

I have FIOS internet, but I am not interested in their TV service. My friend has it and while the picture quality looks the same as Directv I thought the guide and all looked like cable.

Directv has them beat.


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## 1980ws (Mar 18, 2008)

Without NFLST, it would be hard to switch. But if Comcast Sportsnet Philadelphia is available, I'd have to do some thinking.


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## RCY (Nov 17, 2005)

I would consider it. Assuming a HD DVR with DLB and a user upgradeable hard drive, it could be an attractive alternative for me.


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## FHSPSU67 (Jan 12, 2007)

I'd stay with Directv since I'm highly satisfied


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## je4755 (Dec 11, 2006)

I believe there is no prospect of FIOS availability in my DMA. If, in the best of all possible worlds, it were to appear, I still would retain DirecTV because of ST. However, should DirecTV prove no more interested in adding national HD channels after a successful D12 launch than today, I would minimize outlays to DirecTV (keeping ST, CI and the Sports Pack, for example) while concurrently purchasing FIOS Extreme HD and multiple movie channels.


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## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

I dumped DirecTV for Comcast about 5 months ago. Had Fios been available, I would have switched to Fios. Although I am happy with Comcast, I have friends with Fios, and I still think Fios is better (in regards to price, DVR, SD picture quality, HD selection).

So although I am happier with Comcast over DirecTV, I believe I would be even happier with Fios.


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## dcowboy7 (May 23, 2008)

They are here but NO as they dont have NFL Sunday Ticket.


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## Yourself (Jul 9, 2007)

FIOS is available in my area, but without Sunday Ticket, I just can't switch.


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## mx6bfast (Nov 8, 2006)

I would most definitely give them a hard look. I'd have to consider a lot of things tho.


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## dshu82 (Jul 6, 2007)

ccsoftball7 said:


> No Sunday Ticket...no switching.


Yup.


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

FIOS isn't available locally and no indication when it will be. AT&T U-Verse is supposedly coming RealSoonNow!™ but I'll believe it when I see it, and besides their DVRs have very low capacity and not nearly enough tuners for my needs (I have 10, six of which are HD and two more on a R22 that should be upgradable via software to HD this summer, according to recent reports). Comcast is rolling out DOCSIS 3.0 locally this year, apparently, but I don't like their local channel quality, cost or DVRs, although I am a happy customer of their internet and VOIP phone services. 

So, when you factor in that I'm actually happy with my service with Directv and how much I pay for it, I'll be sticking with Directv for the foreseeable future, unless there's a sea-change in the overall industry.


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## dhhaines (Nov 18, 2005)

I have FIOS internet, but with only one HD MLB game a day and the extra cost of the DVR's, not worth it to me. Plus the DVR's have very little capacity and no way to expand that capacity.


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## cforrest (Jan 20, 2007)

I have both with my D* bill on my FIOS Triple Play bill. For $99.95/month + taxes with 20/20 Mbps package, Extreme HD, phone and my D* bill on the same bill, works out well for me. Plus I got all the HD I could want, since neither provider has all I want.


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## Matt9876 (Oct 11, 2007)

fornold said:


> Not for TV.
> 
> Would love their internet service though.


+1


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## msmith (Apr 23, 2002)

I got FIOS for phone and Internet, but kept DirecTV for Television. Our DVR is better and we have more HD channels.


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## guffy1 (Apr 23, 2006)

Id switch just to get the dish off my roof. I doubt FIOS will ever be available in my area though. That would be awesome if someone were to chime in and say I was wrong


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

No Sunday Ticket, no thanks.

But I'd get their Internet in a heartbeat.

FIOS will never be here but Uverse is soon and I will get their Internet the day it's available. But no interest at all in their TV service.


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## ajc68 (Jan 23, 2008)

I live in the Los Angeles area and FIOS in my area has a much better HD selection than D* does currently. Something like 73 local and national channels, and another 43 movie channels! That being said, I'm a huge (relocated) sports fan, so I have to stay with D*. But it would be nice to get all of those movie channels in HD, along with ESPNU, WGN America, Outdoor Channel, The Travel Channel, etc., etc., etc.

The other factor keeping me with D* is I really like the service, and I really like the DVR (now that it's got the bugs worked out and is enhanced...DBL, remote programming, etc.). And I like the fact that if I want to watch channel 2 in HD I hit 2 and not 702 or some other random number. One of the worst things about HD on cable is having an alternate channel number. I would absolutely hate that!

So while it appears that FIOS is a great service (although, I don't know anything about their DVR interface), it just doesn't offer enough at this point to pull me away from a service that I'm already very pleased with (sans a handful of missing HD channels & CSN NW).


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## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

I switched from D* to FiOS TV about five months ago and I have no regrets. I switched for the following reasons, all of which FiOS has delivered on:

Better HD picture quality
Better SD picture quality
Much smaller bill overall for TV, phone and Internet
Many more HD premium movie channels
Things that Verizon needs to improve:

Add support for external hard drives - reportedly in the works
16:9 interactive media guide (it is currently 4:3) - reportedly in the works
Regarding NFL ST, I've kept D* just for this and have suspended my service in the meantime. Yes, this will be a signifigant additional expense but believe it or not I will still be saving money overall as compared to staying with D* for my primary TV service.


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## jdspencer (Nov 8, 2003)

I won't jump ship. Why? Because FIOS isn't an option here and probably won't be for a very long time.


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## Gooser711 (Oct 29, 2007)

I'll be getting FIOS for Internet in May. If the Dolans ever let (or should I say sued to comply) MSG-HD on FIOS I'd get a triple play package if it saves me a significant amount of money, say $10 a month. But with no MSG-HD, no deal for me, I'm relatively happy with DirecTV except for a lack of Travel Channel and the high cost of startup (which is already paid for anyway at this point)


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## thestaton (Aug 14, 2008)

I'd switch my internet instantly! No chance I'm ditching D* though.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

I switched to FiOS 2 years ago. I was very happy with DirecTV, but didn't like the idea of having to pay $300 up front for their HD DVR. I decided to give FiOS TV a go, and have been really happy with them since. Can't speak to their HD PQ, but their SD PQ is better than DirecTV's. Their DVR is light in terms of recording capacity, and there is some functionality I miss (I find their searching functionality to be a bit lacking). I don't understand the comments about the DVR being confusing to use, though - I think it's outrageously intuitive, and the MRV has worked darn near flawlessly for me - although I do agree that there is a latency when trying to do trickplay from one of the remote STBs while watching a recording - that's due to how they implemented the MRV architecture.

It really depends on what you're looking for, though. I had no interest in any specialty sports packs (e.g. NFL ST) - I was more interested in getting CSN Philly. And I like having the local stuff again (e.g. Weatherscan Local). But it really depends on what you want or need.

Even if FiOS becomes available, and even if you opt to stick with DirecTV, I would strongly recommend FiOS for internet service. It's excellent - rock solid (I had their internet service while I had DirecTV, and I've had 1 outage in nearly 3 1/2 years), no caps, no throttling, and no slow periods. I get 20 Meg down any time day or night.


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## braven (Apr 9, 2007)

Hutchinshouse said:


> Less compressed higher quality HD
> 
> I'd switch in a heartbeat. Picture quality trumps all....!
> 
> Too bad it's not in my area.


NFLST trumps all! At least in my house.


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## Maui (Feb 17, 2009)

I would have to consider it. I just upgraded to Verizon 7.1 internet. IThe jury is still out on that decision because I've had a few hickups with it but I'll give it a couple more weeks before I call them.


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## JACKIEGAGA (Dec 11, 2006)

Fios has come my way still have DIRECTV


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

FIOS VS DIRECTV (IMHO)

*FIOS Pluses*
Better Picture, (lets not even debate this.)
No Dish
Can Get Internet and Phone on Same Service
HD Channels can be expanded much more than Directv and very easily
Reliable service and receiver.
Faster DVR
No Rain Fade
Better Priced packages

*FIOS Minuses*
DVR is not Great, very small HD and not as modern as HR2X's
Not as Much HD content Yet.
If the one cable goes, so does TV, Internet and Phone.

*DirecTV Pluses*
More HD (for Now)
Sunday Ticket
Much more DVR Features
Bigger Hard Drive

*Directv Minuses*
The Dish
Future Expansion is going to be an issue
Buggy DVR.
HD Pic not as Good, and may get worst if BW becomes an issue
Rain Fade

If FIOS comes I would most likely switch over, just on the Pic Quality and the reliability aspects.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

I would definitely switch to their internet from Comcast and AT&T.

I would consider switching to their TV service. We just had it installed for my mother and the picture was fantastic. I was also able to watch shows without constant brrrrriiiiippp.

More likely we'll just be doing away with Pay TV service...Net based programming, NetFlix and OTA seems to be getting better and better.


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## dodge boy (Mar 31, 2006)

NO!


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## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

dreadlk said:


> *FIOS Minuses*
> Not as Much HD content Yet.
> 
> *DirecTV Pluses*
> More HD (for Now)


This isn't true unless you count DirecTV's RSNs (which don't have 24/7 content due to blackouts) and HD pay per view channels (which technically you could surf but it would cost you an arm and a leg). FiOS has 100 true national HD channels versus DirecTV's 70. The counts are here.


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## Araxen (Dec 18, 2005)

I'd switch to FIOS in a heartbeat.


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## jimmyv2000 (Feb 15, 2007)

Araxen said:


> I'd switch to FIOS in a heartbeat.


YES i would have,
.........if verizon didn't pull out of NH back in 2006 
My town would have been the first one in NH to get FIOS and just 1 day before Verizon was to appear before the selectmans metting they cancelled and announced that they were selling thier landlines in ME,NH and VT to Fairpoint Communications.
Fairpoint has no _current_ plans to offer TV services similar to Fios but do offer a D* bundle.

so i upgraded my D* system to HD in FEB 07


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## Brennok (Dec 23, 2005)

I consider it daily. I am holding off to see how the new Directv Tivo rolls out. Depending on that I will either keep DTV or jump to Fios.


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## DCSholtis (Aug 7, 2002)

Nope would never consider switching.


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## Technician (Nov 29, 2007)

In the metro detroit market directv is the content provider for u verse which should tell you something. U verse is really great in principle but from my experience a very large percentage of people are dissatisfied with the uverse/fios application. Poor installers is the first cause of most of the problems. The second major issus is the limit on how close you are to the box, many installers push it to the max so they can get paid and the service ends up being crap. The third potential issue would be whether or not they ran fiber or copper to your house.

On the flip side I know some people who were beta testers in my market and they love it. I'm not switching though.


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## TalladegaTommy (Dec 27, 2008)

My brother just backed up the truck and dropped D*. He was fed up with losing a signal everytime it sprinkled ,continuos 721,771 errors constant rebooting the dvr and quite frankly i experience the same stuff .I personally have been a D* customer since 1995. My opinion is their equipment was reliable up until hd and dvr's came out. This stuff is junk and plagued with flaws. It usually happens when you try to beat the competition with a new product. u-verse is the way to go. i will be backing the truck up myself


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## rhipps (Apr 7, 2008)

As long as I have a motorhome, I will stick with D*. Their customer service is the best of any company I have dealt with in this century and they have always been fair and respectful when I have had a problem. The only thing they haven't implemented (and neither has their competitors) that I would like to see is a way to bill customers only for those channels that they want. Of the several hundred they have available we probably watch less than 50 on a regular basis. This senior citizen has no need or desire to watch MTV, VHS1, the many kiddie channels, etc., etc. But as the competition gets more intense in the home entertainment business, the day is coming IMHO when we will only pay for what we want to watch.


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## gopatriots (Jan 17, 2007)

I am switching. Here in the northeast FIOS has more HD content. But the real motivation is the lower overall price when bundled with internet compared to what I'm paying now. I struggled with the HR20 for a while (and sometimes still do), I suspect the same from the FIOS DVR. Eventually FIOS will enable the esata port to extend recording times. I also won't miss the rain fade I get with the larger dish and removing the snow although these happened infrequently. IF I lived outside of New England NFLST would be enough to make me stay.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

Technician said:


> In the metro detroit market directv is the content provider for u verse which should tell you something. U verse is really great in principle but from my experience a very large percentage of people are dissatisfied with the uverse/fios application. Poor installers is the first cause of most of the problems. The second major issus is the limit on how close you are to the box, many installers push it to the max so they can get paid and the service ends up being crap. The third potential issue would be whether or not they ran fiber or copper to your house.
> 
> On the flip side I know some people who were beta testers in my market and they love it. I'm not switching though.


Sorry, but this doesn't make any sense. DirecTV is the content provider for U-Verse? No, they're not. U-Verse is an AT&T service. AT&T offers DirecTV to customers in areas where U-Verse is not available, but DirecTV doesn't provide the content for U-Verse.

Also, grouping U-Verse and FiOS like that ('a very large percentage of people are dissatisfied with the uverse/fios application') doesn't make sense either. U-Verse and FiOS are VERY dissimilar in their architectures. About the only similarity is that they were both started by telephone companies, and they employ fiber SOMEWHERE in their systems. That's about it.

And in terms of satisfaction - while FiOS or U-Verse may not be everyone's cup of tea, both score highest in overall customer satisfaction, no matter which survey you look at.

Don't mean to dump on you, but what you're saying isn't accurate.


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## Goldlexus (Jun 23, 2002)

Verizon is laying FIOS lines in my neighborhood in the next few weeks. I will surely consider it after my 2 year contract is up in Dec. The deciding factor will be cost. I currently have internet and phone thru' Verizon. If bundling saves me money then yes I will switch. Verizon does offer a phone, internet and Directv bundle but at this point only saves me $15 a month that's if I downgrade my current tv package and slow dsl speeds (768 down from 1.5). Not worth it.


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## roadrunner1782 (Sep 28, 2008)

I wouldn't switch. Directv has always treated me right.


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## TBlazer07 (Feb 5, 2009)

Fios is here and I didn't switch (except for Internet). Now I am FULLY rid of Comcrap.


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## FlBillsfan (Apr 23, 2008)

I have been thinking of switching for a while now. The pros & cons for each have been listed already, if I decide to switch it will be because of the BRRIIIP issue. I have been patiently waiting for Direct TV to fix this as well as add more HD. I also have had Direct TV for a long time & have had NO offers of deals as I have read others on this board have received. My Direct TV bill is about $150./mo. I don't know if that is considered to be a lot or not. I have verizon DSL now & I know the fios internet would be MUCH BETTER for about the same money with the FIOS package.


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## Miller (Jul 22, 2005)

I always like to remain open minded but right now I don’t think I would change. I really want D* to carry every premium channel for HBO, Starz and so on like Comcast does and in HD. I don’t understand why a cable company should beat them in premium channels and why they shouldn’t have more HD in this department. That being said I am currently happy with D* though they shouldn’t even consider becoming content and falling behind. I remain hopeful they will solve this issue someday and like things I see coming down the pike like MRV and DLB. DLB is something I really miss since switching from Comcast to D*.


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## Milkman (Dec 6, 2006)

If FIOS came my way, and didn't have soft caps, I am gone from cable modem.

No plans on leaving D* though.


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## dewd (Aug 31, 2006)

Maybe I'm missing something... I did my homework when FIOS TV came around last year. Even with the bundled packages, my bill would be higher than DirecTV. I have 3 HD DVRs. With FIOS, each would cost me $16 per month. In less than 2 years, I will have paid WAY more than the $199 up front fee for D* DVR's. I still can't see how it is cheaper. Like I said, maybe I'm missing something....

BTW - I've had FIOS internet for 2 years. LOVE IT!!!


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## smokes20 (Sep 17, 2007)

spartanstew said:


> Nope.
> 
> I've had FIOS capability here for 5 years. There's nothing they offer that's better for me than what D* has, but D* has many things that are better than what FIOS has.


Same here. I have had FIOS phone and internet for 20 months. Unless D* does something drastically harmful to my service/contract, I won't move to FIOS TV.

Besides, as bad as Hotpass has been this season and Smoke not getting his own dedicated channel, at least I can watch the race during long winded commericals


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## ansky (Oct 11, 2005)

I'll be canceling D* in a couple weeks when I move into my new house. The house is already wired for FIOS so it will be an easy switch. I have nothing against D*, but the way my house is situated would mean the dish would have to be placed somewhere on the front of the house and we don't want to deal with that eyesore. It will be nice to not have to deal with rain fade anymore, and FIOS has channels like American Life TV, Travel HD, and ESPNU that I don't get with D*. From a cost perspective it's about the same.


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## BKC (Dec 12, 2007)

I would switch in a skinny minute.


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## armophob (Nov 13, 2006)

I work for the provider. They can pull my dish from my cold dead hands.


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## apastuszak (Sep 26, 2008)

I'll switch as soon as Verizon signs a deal with Tivo to port their software to the FIOS TV DVR. Until then, I'm sitting put for the new HD DirecTivo.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

TalladegaTommy said:


> My brother just backed up the truck and dropped D*.


What does that mean?


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## sodina (Apr 29, 2009)

i will without a doubt.
fios has fast internet as well. i do not see y not.


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## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

dewd said:


> Maybe I'm missing something... I did my homework when FIOS TV came around last year. Even with the bundled packages, my bill would be higher than DirecTV. I have 3 HD DVRs. With FIOS, each would cost me $16 per month. In less than 2 years, I will have paid WAY more than the $199 up front fee for D* DVR's. I still can't see how it is cheaper. Like I said, maybe I'm missing something....


I have a single TV so savings with FiOS are clear for me.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

nope...

I have played with it, and its dvr's are far to pathetic for my needs.... 

But I do want their internet...


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## Billzebub (Jan 2, 2007)

Miller said:


> I always like to remain open minded but right now I don't think I would change. I really want D* to carry every premium channel for HBO, Starz and so on like Comcast does and in HD. I don't understand why a cable company should beat them in premium channels and why they shouldn't have more HD in this department. That being said I am currently happy with D* though they shouldn't even consider becoming content and falling behind. I remain hopeful they will solve this issue someday and like things I see coming down the pike like MRV and DLB. DLB is something I really miss since switching from Comcast to D*.


Unless Lancaster is a lot different than Harrisburg I don't get what you're saying. Here in Harrisburg I get 1 Starz, 1 HBO, 1 Showtime and 1 Cinemax channel in HD. At home with Directv the entire Starz lineup is HD. Plus, more HBO, Showtime and Cinemax HD. I would like Directv to carry the other Cinemax and Hbo channels but Comcast doesn't compare in the HD area.


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## Billzebub (Jan 2, 2007)

I have FIOS internet service and for the most part I'm happy but I really hate the router. Every time I want to add a wireless client I end up having to reboot the router. And if you're unhappy with Directv customer service wait till you deal with Verizon.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

Reaper said:


> I have a single TV so savings with FiOS are clear for me.


Same with me - well, I have 3 TVs, but one with a DVR, one with an SD STB, and one with a free digital adapter (Verizon gave those out when they were eliminating analogs). Like I've said before - it really depends on what you're looking for. If you like having many DVRs, then yes, DirecTV is likely cheaper than FiOS. But, again, that depends. If I'm a movie buff, and I like the premiums, then Verizon is cheaper.

Overall, Verizon is less expensive for me - especially since I had FiOS phone/internet while I was a DirecTV customer. Bundling with Verizon saves me quite a bit every month, especially when considering how much it would cost to have the equivalent of what I have now, programming wise, even with the additional hardware fees I pay (I used to pay $11/month for hardware to DirecTV for two DVRs - $6 for the DVR fee, and $5 for the additional receiver fee), and now I pay $25 ($20 for the home media - aka multiroom - DVR, and $5 for the second receiver).


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

apastuszak said:


> I'll switch as soon as Verizon signs a deal with Tivo to port their software to the FIOS TV DVR. Until then, I'm sitting put for the new HD DirecTivo.


I'm missing something here - you can get tivo with fios service. No, they don't have tivo s/w on their DVRs, but you can buy a tivo (or that new Moxi DVR that has me drooling), get a cable card from Verizon, and voila!


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## icethegreat (Jan 7, 2009)

Fios tv, maybe, fios internet definite yes


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## bnglbill (Nov 29, 2006)

I was a long time Directv subscriber until I made the switch about two weeks ago and I am very satisfied with Verizon. I'm still getting used to the new channel positions and the difference in DVrs, etc. Verizon gave me $150.00 prepaid credit card to cover my final expenses with Directv, my payment is locked in for two years and I am saving about $30.00 a month. HD picture quality is about the same, at least I cant see a diference and SD is much better than Directv.


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## bnglbill (Nov 29, 2006)

dewd said:


> Maybe I'm missing something... I did my homework when FIOS TV came around last year. Even with the bundled packages, my bill would be higher than DirecTV. I have 3 HD DVRs. With FIOS, each would cost me $16 per month. In less than 2 years, I will have paid WAY more than the $199 up front fee for D* DVR's. I still can't see how it is cheaper. Like I said, maybe I'm missing something....
> 
> BTW - I've had FIOS internet for 2 years. LOVE IT!!!


The idea is to only have one, the multiroom DVR. Where this doesn't work is if you need more storage, Myself, the storage on the multiroom dvr is adequate so it works for me and I drop 3 dvr fees.


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## bnglbill (Nov 29, 2006)

ciurca said:


> I only ask this because the guy who installed my system earlier this month talked about it then. He wants to work as a FIOS installer and wants FIOS TV bad.
> 
> Personally, I am blown away by the whole Direct TV experience compared to my old HD DVR service with Comcast.
> 
> Anyone here considering?


I wish you would have made this a poll, the numbers would have been interesting to see.


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## bnglbill (Nov 29, 2006)

Reaper said:


> This isn't true unless you count DirecTV's RSNs (which don't have 24/7 content due to blackouts) and HD pay per view channels (which technically you could surf but it would cost you an arm and a leg). FiOS has 100 true national HD channels versus DirecTV's 70. The counts are here.


Yeah, no doubt, without the play on numbers, Verizon definitely has more HD availbale for one to watch on their tv at any given time.


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## Ronmort (Apr 23, 2002)

I am very happy with Directv. Lots of HD MLB games.


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## Prince Oz (Jan 15, 2009)

Not a chance I would switch. Fios is a lot like cable. It may be fiber optic, but it is still runs through a cable for miles. As a Robotic Engineer, Fiber Optics are great, but eventually, you will have issues. Condensation, connectors working loose, and my least favorite, a kink in the fiber optic cable. Everything with FIOS is new, but down the road, problems will arise. Advantage of D* is there are NO cables from the sat. to your dish. You only have a few feet of cables to contend with that you can control.


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## bnglbill (Nov 29, 2006)

Prince Oz said:


> Not a chance I would switch. Fios is a lot like cable. It may be fiber optic, but it is still runs through a cable for miles. As a Robotic Engineer, Fiber Optics are great, but eventually, you will have issues. Condensation, connectors working loose, and my least favorite, a kink in the fiber optic cable. Everything with FIOS is new, but down the road, problems will arise. Advantage of D* is there are NO cables from the sat. to your dish. You only have a few feet of cables to contend with that you can control.


And the increasing amount os space debree that can knock a satellite out of orbit. :lol: No really, it can happen.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

Prince Oz said:


> Not a chance I would switch. Fios is a lot like cable. It may be fiber optic, but it is still runs through a cable for miles. As a Robotic Engineer, Fiber Optics are great, but eventually, you will have issues. Condensation, connectors working loose, and my least favorite, a kink in the fiber optic cable. Everything with FIOS is new, but down the road, problems will arise. Advantage of D* is there are NO cables from the sat. to your dish. You only have a few feet of cables to contend with that you can control.


Fiber is alot less prone to those issues than coax is. Fiber doesn't break down, and unless you actually get it on the fiber itself, things like condensation won't affect its performance at all. The fiber runs are protected - they run in conduits that can take quite a bit of abuse. The connectors are all closed - heck, they don't even splice the fiber in the field when they install it at your house. They just use whole loops of fiber with the connectors already attached. About the only thing you can do with this fiber that disrupts service is to break it (I've heard of one issue where an installer got dirt on the end of a fiber connection, which caused problems, but that was one case). As for things like kinks - how would they develop AFTER an install is done? I can understand that happening on an install, but afterwards? Mine is strung aerially, just under my powerline - if something takes out that run of fiber, I really will be in big trouble because my power will go out right along with it .

Again, FiOS isn't for everyone, but I had ALOT more disruptions with my DirecTV service than I have with FiOS. In 2 years I've had zero FiOS TV outages, compared with probably 5 - 6 / year due to rain fade.


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## Prince Oz (Jan 15, 2009)

jpl said:


> Mine is strung aerially, just under my powerline - if something takes out that run of fiber, I really will be in big trouble because my power will go out right along with it .
> 
> You do have very good points and I could counter them all, but won't turn this into a debate. But one point that you mentioned is probably the biggest concern. Ran just under your power line. The cable has an anchor point which does not move. With the wind blowing around the cable and sometimes pretty strong, will create a stress point at the anchor spot and over a period of time cause a stress mark on the fiber optic. Just like when you bend a clear straw, you see the stress mark from the bend and that little mark on a fiber optic is enough to hamper the signal. In my case, shut down a robot. I have replaced many fiber optic cables because over time with consant movement, this happens. Fiber Optic's are a great way of sending information, but they are also very delicate and it does not take much for a bad fiber optic to shut down equipment or to taint a signal.


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## bnglbill (Nov 29, 2006)

Prince Oz said:


> jpl said:
> 
> 
> > Mine is strung aerially, just under my powerline - if something takes out that run of fiber, I really will be in big trouble because my power will go out right along with it .
> ...


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## Chaos (Apr 24, 2002)

I'm in for internet, but not TV. Directv is just the best solution out there right now.


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## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

FIOS TV should be available for me later in the fall. I may switch because those HR DVRs constantly misbehaved with me. With FIOS, I could either lease their box with no commitment and see if I like it -- if not, I'll grab a Tivo.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

Prince Oz said:


> jpl said:
> 
> 
> > Mine is strung aerially, just under my powerline - if something takes out that run of fiber, I really will be in big trouble because my power will go out right along with it .
> ...


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## kd3yt1 (Mar 25, 2008)

Well, I have no idea when FIOS will be available in my area. I love my DirecTV but have one huge complaint --- The guide is way to slow. I get tired of pushing a button on the remote and then sitting there and waiting and waiting. I have turned scrolling off and I am constantly resetting my HR21-100 but it doesn't help. If this one issue isn't gone when my contract is over (14 months) - I am gone.............


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## dewd (Aug 31, 2006)

bnglbill said:


> The idea is to only have one, the multiroom DVR. Where this doesn't work is if you need more storage, Myself, the storage on the multiroom dvr is adequate so it works for me and I drop 3 dvr fees.


What to you do when your spouse, 2 children, and you all want to record something at 8PM on Saturday night?

One multi-room DVR from Verizon = the cost of 3 from DirecTV.

Also, very soon DirecTV will have multi-room.

I really did look at this closely a few times over the past year. I would like to save some money, but I just can't see how. It's break even with the bundles for the first year, then the price goes up.

For now I'm firmly in the 'won't switch' camp. :nono2:


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

dewd said:


> One multi-room DVR from Verizon = the cost of 3 from DirecTV.


Ugh... I think this is one of the biggest misunderstandings of all this stuff. Both companies have different pricing structures - you still pay, just in different ways. How much did DirecTV want to charge me to get their HD DVR? At the time: $300 up front, plus $20 s&h, plus it would have locked me into a 2 year contract, plus $5/month. That also doesn't take into account the $6/month DVR fee, but let's set that aside.

What about that multi-room DVR that I got with FiOS? Nothing up front, no contract, and $20/month, with no additional DVR fee.

That means that the monthly difference in price between the two services is $15. I pay alot more up front for the DirecTV box, but I pay $15 less per month. Given that, how long would it take me to break even? Answer: 22 months. On top of that, I get locked into that contract.

Both DBS and cable following different leasing paradigms. Both give you discounts for locking into a contract - but with DBS the discount is on the equipment. Think that equipment is free? Even if you get their DVR for no money up front, you're still getting charged more than you think for it because you're locked into a contract. You have to take the monthly discount from the contract as part of the cost of the DVR.

Cable companies, like FiOS, give you a discount on your service. At the end of the day, the real question is, apples to apples, what will one service cost me OVERALL compared to the other? It's way too easy for a company to tell you 'we don't charge you for HD!', but jack up the base price of their service. You're still paying for the HD - you're just not paying separately for it.

When I evaluated switching, I looked at my particular setup (channels, hardware, the works) and asked myself the question: if I were to get something equivalent with FiOS, how much would this cost me? The savings were considerable. This was even before Verizon offered me a triple play. So much so that I worked off my DirecTV ETF within 7 months of signing up for FiOS. That is, even BEFORE getting the triple play, I saved enough every month from FiOS that I made up the cost of my ETF with DirecTV within 7 months. On top of that you add bundling, and the savings really are considerable.

Edit - One last point on this:

"It's break even with the bundles for the first year, then the price goes up."

Wrong. Well, prices would likely go up a bit, but not as much as you think. One thing that's nice about the cable leasing paradigm is that I can always renew my contract. With DirecTV, the only way to renew your contract is to get more equipment. With cable when my 1 year contract is up I just call them up and ask them to renew my contract for another year. Granted, I'll get locked into whatever the current rate is (e.g. if I'm in a contract, and I'm locked in for a year, when the next year rolls around, and I lock in again, I lock in at whatever the going rate for their triple play is), but you're still paying alot less than ala carte.


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## Dusty (Sep 21, 2006)

FIOS has come my way. I have been a FIOS double play customer. Going triple play will save me slightly almost $5 with more channels but if I factor in new TivoHD, it will cost me more. If I don't have triple play savings, FIOS package is actually more expensive for me.


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## gfrang (Aug 30, 2007)

I won't be going any ware for a wile,nothing in my area but Comcast and i think Directv is about the best i can do.


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## Tinymon (Sep 21, 2007)

With U-verse you are limited to two HD streams into the house. So if you're watching an HD program in the living room and wifey is watching another HD program in the bedroom then anything you record on a second tuner will be in SD.

No thanks. I love D*


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## igator99 (Jul 28, 2006)

Leaving for U-Verse as soon as possible.


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

Tinymon said:


> With U-verse you are limited to two HD streams into the house. So if you're watching an HD program in the living room and wifey is watching another HD program in the bedroom then anything you record on a second tuner will be in SD.
> 
> No thanks. I love D*


Yep. Even if U-Verse comes to my area as they've promised they will, this is entirely unacceptable to me. I have 10 tuners in use right now, 6 of which are HD. I'll almost certainly upgrade all of them to HD in a year or two, and may even add more as small HDTVs get cheaper.


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## jsmuga (Jan 3, 2008)

joed32 said:


> I go where Sunday Ticket goes.


+1


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## shocky (Oct 23, 2007)

If FIOS comes here and I'm not under DTV contract.. Kiss there arses goodbye.

Rain fade during my favorite programs drives me nuts (96% signal so it's just how it is.)


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

I am not under DIRECTV contract.

If FIOS did magically appear here, Yes I would switch--but not away from DIRECT. Not a chance. 

But I would leave comcast internet very quickly... :lol:

(Actually, humor aside, I really wouldn't leave DIRECTV but I'm not sure about comcast. We'll see how the numbers look in 10 years--the earliest I expect FIOS or Uverse here.)

Cheers,
Tom


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## iamqnow (Dec 26, 2007)

ciurca said:


> I only ask this because the guy who installed my system earlier this month talked about it then. He wants to work as a FIOS installer and wants FIOS TV bad.
> 
> Personally, I am blown away by the whole Direct TV experience compared to my old HD DVR service with Comcast.
> 
> Anyone here considering?


I would positively consider it. D* has been a very good provider, most problems eventually resolved, but..... .I pay a premium for my internet because I don't have Comcast tv, and I dropped my landline phone options to save money. If I did an all-in-one with Fios I would save quite a bit and get back caller id etc.. Pure economics.


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## iamqnow (Dec 26, 2007)

ansky said:


> I'll be canceling D* in a couple weeks when I move into my new house. The house is already wired for FIOS so it will be an easy switch. I have nothing against D*, but the way my house is situated would mean the dish would have to be placed somewhere on the front of the house and we don't want to deal with that eyesore. It will be nice to not have to deal with rain fade anymore, and FIOS has channels like American Life TV, Travel HD, and ESPNU that I don't get with D*. From a cost perspective it's about the same.


I agree with the rain fade issue too. Obviously the weather has been more severe, and when there is nothing to do but watch tv, it goes out. Sure, there is on demand and all that, but it's still a pain. We are not really big tv viewers here especially in good weather. So it just seems to affect the picture more lately. And it's not a dish alignment issue.


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> But I would leave comcast internet very quickly... :lol:


Tom, I had heard Comcast was rolling out DOCSIS 3.0 this year in our town (which was one of the first in the state to get cable internet in the late 90's, so there's a precedent for testing stuff in this area) . . . this conversation reminded me to test my throughput for the first time in a few weeks.



Remind me to stop pining for FiOS internet. I pay about $45 a month for this level of service.


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## DarinC (Aug 31, 2004)

I would definitely consider it if it were here, but I'm in AT&T territory, and we don't even have u-verse. The options are pretty much Comcast or satellite.


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## bidger (Nov 19, 2005)

jdspencer said:


> I won't jump ship. Why? Because FIOS isn't an option here and probably won't be for a very long time.


I'm not sure Verizon gives a rat's @$$ about competing with TWC in this area anyway. I called to ask about an upgrade from 1.5Mbps down a few weeks back...no way. Asked if they wanted to counter an offer from TWC for RR/Digital Phone package and didn't care to even match it, let alone better it. I'm looking at Trac Phone so the Digital Phone doesn't matter. But, it seems my days with Verizon are numbered.

But for s&g's lets say FIOS did magically appear. Internet? Yes please. Phone? Do I have to? TV? If they offer all RSNs in HD and an HD-only package sub option I would be most interested. I have no doubt what others say about better SD PQ, but that doesn't matter to me. Those things fall in place and I have less than a year on my DIRECTV commitment, yeah, I could see myself jumping.



roadrunner1782 said:


> I wouldn't switch. Directv has always treated me right.


And that's the sticking point. I've always felt from my dealings with DIRECTV that I mattered as a customer and that's pretty unique and not something I want to ignore. I would like to see Malone gone since he's a major boat anchor. If a new owner comes along and can effectively implement an effective Triple Play option, I'm all ears.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

If Directv ever loses exclusive transmission of Sunday Ticket they can pack up the Satellites and Head home. I believe that's the number one thing that keeps people signing up year after year.

It must be a pretty humbling experience for the Directv Execs to go into contract renewal negotiations with the NFL. I imagine the meetings must start with Zips going down and Lips puckering up


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## bnglbill (Nov 29, 2006)

dewd said:


> What to you do when your spouse, 2 children, and you all want to record something at 8PM on Saturday night?
> 
> One multi-room DVR from Verizon = the cost of 3 from DirecTV.
> 
> ...


Well, as I said, it works for some and for some it doesn't. I"m single so I dont have such issues...


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

dreadlk said:


> If Directv ever loses exclusive transmission of Sunday Ticket they can pack up the Satellites and Head home. I believe that's the number one thing that keeps people signing up year after year.
> 
> It must be a pretty humbling experience for the Directv Execs to go into contract renewal negotiations with the NFL. I imagine the meetings must start with Zips going down and Lips puckering up


Not really since they have only 2 million or so Sunday Ticket subs and nearly 19 million total. If they lost Sunday Ticket and assuming all 2 million left (which they wouldn't), I think DirecTV would be just fine with 17 million customers.


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## dewd (Aug 31, 2006)

jpl said:


> Ugh... I think this is one of the biggest misunderstandings of all this stuff. ...


Fair enough. I will have another look at FIOS. The send me a new offer every week anyway.  My biggest problem (I believe) will still be the multiple DVRs. We'll see what they have to say.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

dewd said:


> Fair enough. I will have another look at FIOS. The send me a new offer every week anyway.  My biggest problem (I believe) will still be the multiple DVRs. We'll see what they have to say.


I didn't mean to come down so hard on you about that. If you have the need for a large number of DVRs, and storage space, then I can bet that FiOS will be too expensive for you. I was simply trying to point out that, all things being equal, services tend to cost about the same. What you save with one service in one area, you make up in another. Whether one service is worth it for you, vs. another, it really comes down to what you're looking for. With my current set-up, FiOS is the better deal for me. If I had a large number of DVRs, DirecTV would likely be the better deal.


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## Brennok (Dec 23, 2005)

dewd said:


> Fair enough. I will have another look at FIOS. The send me a new offer every week anyway.  My biggest problem (I believe) will still be the multiple DVRs. We'll see what they have to say.


I have checked the same thing over and over and Fios would be slightly cheaper, mind you $10-$20 a month, for me with 4 Tivo HDs versus the top Directv package with 4 Directivos. I figure buying the 4 Tivo HDs is a wash since I will also be buying 4 new Directivos when they come out, but this is assuming the price is similar to the retail cost of the Tivo HD. The difference between the Fios triple play bundle which is 139.99 for all channels plus 4 cable cards at 3.99 a piece plus 4 Tivo subscriptions works out to under what I pay for home phone and 20/5 bundle on Fios for 79.99 plus the top Directv package.

If you don't have phone and only internet you may not see the same savings since I haven't looked at the bundles without phone. This also depends on what your local taxes on Directv run you and the Directv package. I priced the same option for my mom who has one of the middle DTV packages and the cost would have been the same versus the triple play bundle with 2 Tivos.


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## jazzyd971fm (Sep 1, 2007)

I'm happy with Directv & with Sunday Ticket, I don't think I'm going anywhere


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## dhhaines (Nov 18, 2005)

dreadlk said:


> If Directv ever loses exclusive transmission of Sunday Ticket they can pack up the Satellites and Head home. I believe that's the number one thing that keeps people signing up year after year.
> 
> It must be a pretty humbling experience for the Directv Execs to go into contract renewal negotiations with the NFL. I imagine the meetings must start with Zips going down and Lips puckering up


 Really ???? I wouldn't pay for Sunday Ticket on any provider. I've been "signing up" as you say for 10 years now. They would lose alot less people then you think.


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## Grydlok (Mar 31, 2007)

Switched but kept my D account for my Free stuff.


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## richall01 (Sep 30, 2007)

Untill FIOS starts to think about to us in small small towns (less than 2,000,000)
I say "NO WAY!! If and when they come.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

richall01 said:


> Untill FIOS starts to think about to us in small small towns (less than 2,000,000)
> I say "NO WAY!! If and when they come.


Up to 2 million is a small town? Wow. I don't think straight popluation is the only consideration when Verizon rolls out FiOS. Per the 2000 census, we have 20,495 people in my township (source Wikipedia, so take that for what it's worth), and we have FiOS. But then again, we have the headquarters for QVC in our township (West Goshen), so maybe that was a consideration . I would consider 2 million to be a fairly large city - are you sure that's the number you meant?


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

This is really an academic discussion. The vast majority of us can’t get and won’t get FiOS anytime soon...

...or am I wrong about that?

What is the likelihood that FiOS will reach all the areas where Verizon is available in say the next 5 years?

Since Verizon isn’t available in my area, what’s the likelihood that FiOS will branch out of the current Verizon coverage areas?

I googled and read all I could find and the time frames vary greatly. However, it seems it will be >5 years before FiOS is available in all the Verizon coverage areas and I can’t find any real data on how long it will take to expand beyond those areas (or even if it will happen at all).

I wonder how this will all pan out. I probably wouldn’t switch but I wouldn’t mind having them for my ISP. 

Mike


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

MicroBeta said:


> This is really an academic discussion. The vast majority of us can't get and won't get FiOS anytime soon...
> 
> ...or am I wrong about that?
> 
> ...


Those are great questions. From what I understand, Verizon has an initial roll-out plan for FiOS, which encompasses x % of their total footprint by y date. I believe y = end of 2010 (but don't hold me to that).

Due to growth that's been outpacing their original plan, though, they've expedited their roll-out to that footprint, and from what I understand, they're currently considering a couple things:

1) Expanding that footprint, to include other Verizon areas that weren't initially slated to get FiOS.

2) Moving into more rual areas - to do this the cost of fiber would have to be alot cheaper than it is now - as a result, they've talked about running FTTN in those areas.

3) Moving into AT&T territory to compete with U-Verse. On this one they've done that in some trial, borderline, areas (primarily in TX and CA). They've said that they want to test out how FiOS does in those markets but if they do well relative to U-Verse, they would likely expand further into some non-Verizon areas.

Of the three, I think 1 is pretty darn likely. I think 2 won't happen for the foreseeable future (and I seriously doubt they'll move to FTTN, but you never know), and I think 3 is very likely - but I don't think that means that they move all around the country. They're probably going to pick and choose their areas pretty carefully when deciding to move in on AT&T country.


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

jpl said:


> ... and I think 3 is very likely - but I don't think that means that they move all around the country. They're probably going to pick and choose their areas pretty carefully when deciding to move in on AT&T country.


This is AT&T country for POTS in most cases . . . formerly Bellsouth, formerly South Central Bell, formerly . . . er, AT&T. 

Aaaanyway, I digress. Now, that being said, until the iPhone changed the equation, Verizon was BY FAR the largest and most comprehensive wireless service around these parts. Either by merging with, buying up or otherwise swallowing prior carriers, Verizon was just the best, period. Verizon has even opened up a big wireless customer service call center here in town too in the last couple of years.

However, all that being said, U-Verse isn't available in our town, FiOS isn't available in our town, and neither service gives any indication of when if ever they'll consider it, despite the fact that we're part of a metro area that encompasses over 1.5 million people.

Sadly, that's just the name of the game for the majority of the country outside the top dozen to 20 metro areas. Most of us have only our local phone co, cable co, Dish & Directv from which to choose our telephone, data, and/or television services.


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## randyk47 (Aug 21, 2006)

Nope, I'm not changing. We have U-Verse here, though not in my particular area yet. A month or so ago I helped a friend, who lives in a different part of town, set up a "home theater" and he has U-Verse. I was not impressed and certainly didn't see that it was better than DirecTV or, in fact, as good. Granted there might be things about his cabling, etc., in the house that might degrade the performance but it wasn't anything obvious and even he thought it wasn't as good as my DirecTV reception. I'd say he's more likely to change to Dish or DirecTV than I am to go with U-Verse.


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## compnurd (Apr 23, 2007)

Yes i probably would switch. I like MRV without having to have a network in place to every reciever and only have certain ones that can use it.

I also like there GUI and STB speed destroys the HRX


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## je4755 (Dec 11, 2006)

According to Verizon’s first quarter 2009 earnings report, nearly 300,000 FIOS TV subscribers were added during this period. Consequently, there now are 2.217 million FIOS TV customers (the service is available to more than 13 million premises) with launches scheduled for Washington DC and Philadelphia this year. 

I’m not sure about FIOS internet pricing, but Comcast charges $142/month for stand-alone 50 Mbps service.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

je4755 said:


> I'm not sure about FIOS internet pricing, but Comcast charges $142/month for stand-alone 50 Mbps service.


I forget what their ala-carte pricing is for internet, but if you get their Extreme HD bundle, you get 20/5 internet, their Extreme HD TV package (all non-premium channels in SD and HD), and freedom essentials phone for $110/month. Of course that doesn't include equipment, taxes, and fees.

Edit - just looked up their ala carte internet pricing:

10/2 - $50
20/5 - $60
20/20 - $70
50/20 - $150

Those are pure ala carte prices, if you don't have Verizon phone service, and you don't bundle. If you also have Verizon phone, you can still have ala-carte for internet, and they knock $5 off of each of those prices (e.g. 50/20 would be $145 ala carte if you have Verizon phone service). If you bundle, you save more - although the internet speeds are tied to the bundle package. So if I get their Extreme HD bundle, I have to get their 20/5 internet service. If I want 20/20 instead, I'd have to pay more.


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## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

richall01 said:


> Untill FIOS starts to think about to us in small small towns (less than 2,000,000)
> I say "NO WAY!! If and when they come.


FIOS is in my town, and it's only 20,000.

FIOS is going by average household income.

My neighborhood isn't rich, but it's not starved for cash, either.


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## jjohns (Sep 15, 2007)

Been a customer for 12 years - would switch in a heartbeat. So sick of a new D* version every three months bringing new bugs.


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## Grydlok (Mar 31, 2007)

bobcamp1 said:


> FIOS is in my town, and it's only 20,000.
> 
> FIOS is going by average household income.
> 
> My neighborhood isn't rich, but it's not starved for cash, either.


Verizon cherry picked the hell out of Richmond.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

If Directv lost even 1 million subs they would be in trouble, your not taking into account the amount of Red Ink that would create on the books and the way in which the stock market would respond and also I believe they have more than 2 million subs and yes almost 90% of them will go wherever the Sunday Ticket goes.



bonscott87 said:


> Not really since they have only 2 million or so Sunday Ticket subs and nearly 19 million total. If they lost Sunday Ticket and assuming all 2 million left (which they wouldn't), I think DirecTV would be just fine with 17 million customers.


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

Could I expect the same development process (CE), continuous box improvement and equal or better programming for less money? Not likely.

...neither is my switching.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

You really work with Fiber optic cable and make statements like this 

Condensation?? :lol: You do realize that almost all the Trans-Atlantic cables are Fiber optic!! If they can seal those, I am pretty sure they can seal the one's on Dry land from humidity and Rain

Everything with Fios is New: The FIOS systems backbone is Fiber Optic cable, that's been tested for Decades and is not nearly as new as Directv KA Band system which I believe is the first implementation of KA on a main stream system ever. Talk about new, DirecTV is still gathering data on how this will behave throughout the Solar cycle, and since the system has never been tested during a Solar peak, I am sure there are surprises ahead.

Kinks and Loose connectors: Let me just say NO. That's something completely untrue! The cable is on a poll or in conduit; it's not being rotated by a Motor or used to Fly a Kite!

Let me just add, that if you do a search for the Most reliable utility on the Planet, you will Find that Land Line phone service is the Number one thing you can count on to work after almost all kinds of emergencies. Fiber Optic is a huge part of that ultra reliable network, it's been tested and hammered for decades and it works.

The fact is that Directv has benefited from cables lack luster performance, thats now changing and all it means is that Directv will go back to what where they started and thats providing quality TV to people in Rural areas. FIOS probably has no intention of going into tiny little towns or running lines to Farmer Browns house, so thats a market that Directv will always have. For those who think that they are not serious, think again, those FIOS add campaigns are the work of a company headed for the Juggler.



Prince Oz said:


> Not a chance I would switch. Fios is a lot like cable. It may be fiber optic, but it is still runs through a cable for miles. As a Robotic Engineer, Fiber Optics are great, but eventually, you will have issues. Condensation, connectors working loose, and my least favorite, a kink in the fiber optic cable. Everything with FIOS is new, but down the road, problems will arise. Advantage of D* is there are NO cables from the sat. to your dish. You only have a few feet of cables to contend with that you can control.


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## bwaldron (Oct 24, 2005)

FIOS has been here for some time. I haven't switched. I'm a major sports fan of teams outside my local market. While FIOS has marginally improved in this area, they still don't come close to DirecTV for HD sports. Unless and until they do, I'm staying put. I could actually live without Sunday Ticket, but not the HD we get from the Center Ice, Extra Innings, and even League Pass.


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## Brandon428 (Mar 21, 2007)

If whoever was providing FIOS had a good DVR than to me it would be foolish not to. FIOS offers better quality video,no rain fade,possibility of bundling phone and internet and a much lower price. ST would be the only thing worth staying for and with it going online you'll probably be able to stream it in HD with ease if you have FIOS internet. So I would jump ship.


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## dcowboy7 (May 23, 2008)

FIOS has a better picture quality ?

FIOS has advertising kiosks in 3 malls here with 5 tv pictures at each kiosk so thats a total of 15 tvs. None of them look any better than mine with DirecTV. Now u could say its only in a mall & the picture isnt adjusted properly....but if a company is using that picture to sell their product & doesnt want to properly adjust it, do i realy want that company as my tv provider ?


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## Brandon428 (Mar 21, 2007)

FIOS does have better quality because they have tons more bandwidth. None of the channels are bit starved.


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## dcowboy7 (May 23, 2008)

Brandon428 said:


> FIOS does have better quality because they have tons more bandwidth. None of the channels are bit starved.


than why doesnt it look that way on those 15 tvs ?


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## Brandon428 (Mar 21, 2007)

dcowboy7 said:


> than why doesnt it look that way on those 15 tvs ?


Same reason some TV's look horrible at BestBuy even though you know they look amazing when properly calibrated. Anyone who has seen HD and SD on a FIOS connection with a good TV will tell you its the best. Its not a huge difference but there is a difference that's noticeable.


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## dcowboy7 (May 23, 2008)

Brandon428 said:


> Same reason some TV's look horrible at BestBuy even though you know they look amazing when properly calibrated. Anyone who has seen HD and SD on a FIOS connection with a good TV will tell you its the best. Its not a huge difference but there is a difference that's noticeable.


Thats my point....if FIOS cant take the time to adjust the tv pics their selling why do i want them ?


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## vurbano (May 15, 2004)

I want to switch but 2 series 3 HDtivo's are going to cost a fortune. The FIOS DVR is a joke IMO


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

dcowboy7 said:


> Thats my point....if FIOS cant take the time to adjust the tv pics their selling why do i want them ?


Also realize that the mall is far from optimal for TV viewing. One of the local Circuit City stores (before they went belly-up) had DirecTV HD running to a wall of their TVs. The picture looked ok. Does that mean that DirecTV's PQ sucks? I don't think so. Maybe it means that the TVs were crap. Nope. They were better calibrated than many that I've seen in the stores, but it's just really hard to account for a wide open space with flourescent lighting. Not that those FiOS guys couldn't do a better job of calibrating their sets, but I think there's only so much you can do in a space like that.

A couple years ago I was at the nearby mall, Christmas shopping. I came across a FiOS kiosk. They had the exact same TV I have in the setup. The picture looked really good... but not nearly as good as it does here at home. Could be my stuff is better calibrated, but I don't think that's all of it.


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## Hoxxx (Jun 19, 2004)

yes I would switch the 20meg Internet to go with the bundle is sweet. I have used my sons FIOS and I love it. But where I live it wont come anytime soon and something new will be out there to love.


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## carlsbad_bolt_fan (May 18, 2004)

I already get 20+meg down with Roadrunner turbo.

And Uverse is available in my area and I won't sign up with AT&T for that. In my personal and professional (IT field) that AT&T always works down to their level of incompetence. It's never a question of IF they'll mess something up. It's always a question WHEN.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

dcowboy7 said:


> Thats my point....if FIOS cant take the time to adjust the tv pics their selling why do i want them ?


The way the displays are adjusted is a separate issue from the signal being delivered.

Verizon passes along the original broadcast signal, unaltered and uncompressed. Their CTO has stated this publicly. What happens to the picture quality after the signal is winds up in your living room depends on the TV's electronics, which FiOS has no control over. /steve


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## blazewon (Oct 4, 2006)

No Sunday Ticket, No way


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## w3syt (Feb 17, 2006)

I have FIOS internet and telephone. No desire to add their TV. I may be just too used to Directv with TB hard drives, etc.
Try to get FIOS to explain their DVR offers.


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## DRKnapp (Oct 7, 2008)

I just made the switch today. Although my internet connection gets bumped up a little (from 15 to 20 Mbps) the deciding factor was the $60 dollar a month overall savings.


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## dcowboy7 (May 23, 2008)

So is this correct on the FIOS DVR:

a) it only holds about 20 hours HD.
b) can use a TIVO instead but that only holds about 20 hours HD too.
c) cant add an external hard drive to expand recording time.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

dcowboy7 said:


> So is this correct on the FIOS DVR:
> 
> a) it only holds about 20 hours HD.
> b) can use a TIVO instead but that only holds about 20 hours HD too.
> c) cant add an external hard drive to expand recording time.


a) True.
b) Why? I thought you could buy Tivo's with bigger harddrives, or upgrade them.
c) True on the FiOS DVR (for now) but again, I believe some after-market DVRs can (Tivo, Moxi).


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

jpl said:


> b) Why? I thought you could buy Tivo's with bigger harddrives, or upgrade them.
> c) True on the FiOS DVR (for now) but again, I believe some after-market DVRs can (Tivo, Moxi).


Both true. TiVoHD XL comes with either .5 or 1 TB drive, vs. 160GB in the FiOS Motorola box. Details here.

Monthly TiVO charges are comparable to monthly Verizon DVR prices, but there's no upfront equipment outlay with Verizon. /steve


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## loudo (Mar 24, 2005)

Cable is cable, just because it is delivered over a optical fiber cable instead of a coaxial cable doesn't make any difference. The reputation remains the same. I would jump to to DISH before I would go back to FIOS or any cable system. Plus, FIOS doesn't offer an RSN package like DirecTV, a definite negative in my world.


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## Zellio (Mar 8, 2009)

loudo said:


> Cable is cable, just because it is delivered over a optical fiber cable instead of a coaxial cable doesn't make any difference. The reputation remains the same. I would jump to to DISH before I would go back to FIOS or any cable system. Plus, FIOS doesn't offer an RSN package like DirecTV, a definite negative in my world.


Eh, the difference would be the backbone that fiber optics would have, esp. if it's fiper to the premesis.

I get your point, but I had to say that.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

loudo said:


> Cable is cable, just because it is delivered over a optical fiber cable instead of a coaxial cable doesn't make any difference. The reputation remains the same. I would jump to to DISH before I would go back to FIOS or any cable system. Plus, FIOS doesn't offer an RSN package like DirecTV, a definite negative in my world.


In terms of what's delivered, you're correct. But that's like saying 'digital is digital, so therefore there's no difference between say DirecTV and digital cable.' The FTTP does make a difference in a couple important ways. First, it allows Verizon to use more bandwidth than traditional cable. Around here Comcast runs at about 720 - 750 MHz... for everything. TV, HSI, and voice. Because the pipe that fiber gives you is so large, Verizon runs all of their QAM space just for linear TV feeds. Phone and internet, as well as some of the TV stuff like guide data and VOD, come in via different spectra (guide and VOD come in via the IP feed). Because of this they can devote all of their QAM space to just tv feeds. Also, because the copper is powered at your house, they can (and do) easily run their QAM at 870 MHz (vs. the 720 - 750 for, say, Comcast).

Because of THAT, Verizon can carry their channels without any additional encryption. If Comcast did that, they'd probably be back to 15 - 20 HD channels.

Also, there's one other benefit to FTTP - Verizon runs their internet service with no caps, no slow periods, and no throttling. Yes, QAM is QAM, whether running over fiber or copper, but to say that Verizon's architecture affords them no benefits over traditional cable is just wrong.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

^ To add to that, a Verizon spokesman was recently quoted as saying that they can, in theory, deliver up to 400 Mpbs of internet over existing FiOS connections without affecting the # of QAM channels they're delivering.

They're not planning to do so at this time, but they were asked about it, in light of the new Cablevision 100 Mbps service announcement. /steve


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## richlife (Dec 4, 2006)

For internet, yes. TV, why bother?


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## anilr (Apr 2, 2009)

Not is Verizon territory, so not an option for me, but would switch to FiOS for both internet and TV if I had the option.


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## Tom Servo (Mar 7, 2007)

If it were an option and the HD lineup/local channels were better than what we get with D* then I would consider switching. What it would mostly come down to is a full HD lineup (including the Travel Channel HD) and the costs for multiple DVRs/receivers. If they're a lot more expensive than D*, which is already costly, then I'd stick with satellite.

Frankly, I sometimes tire of the rain fade issues during the rainy season. (Spring storms in the south can be intense! We're talking signals from 95-100 to 0 in seconds, lol.)

I'd definitely want to see the SD and HD pictures before switching, though.


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## dcowboy7 (May 23, 2008)

Steve said:


> Both true. TiVoHD XL comes with either .5 or 1 TB drive, vs. 160GB in the FiOS Motorola box.


ok was just wondering because people here say the FIOS DVR is a drawback....but if u can get a TIVO &/or add an external drive then who cares.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

dcowboy7 said:


> ok was just wondering because people here say the FIOS DVR is a drawback....but if u can get a TIVO & add an external drive then who cares.


Yup. Or you can buy one with up to a 1 TB internal already installed and _still_ add an external if that wasn't enough. /steve


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## Fuzzybear (Dec 29, 2006)

Never say never, but I doubt it! I have been with D* for 10 years and I am still very happy with them.


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## DodgerKing (Apr 28, 2008)

FiOS is in my area and I thought about switching but wont for 2 reasons.


We cannot take it with us when we travel or to our other place in Mammoth like we can with DirecTV

Their HD offers on EI suck compared to DirecTV


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## VARTV (Dec 14, 2006)

VeniceDre said:


> Verizon just had my place wired for Fios last week. I'll probably use it for internet but I have no plans to change over from DirecTV.


That is what I did... Internet/landline/wireless


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## fluffybear (Jun 19, 2004)

If I can do it for Internet only, yes!


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## Undertaker (Jan 1, 2005)

No way, at the present I don't think there is anything better than Direct TV!


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## djrobx (Jan 27, 2009)

> I already get 20+meg down with Roadrunner turbo. And Uverse is available in my area and I won't sign up with AT&T for that. In my personal and professional (IT field) that AT&T always works down to their level of incompetence. It's never a question of IF they'll mess something up. It's always a question WHEN.


My condolences. I'm in the same boat - Time Warner Cable and AT&T. Those two are just the bottom of the barrel when it comes to innovation. U-verse IPTV itself has great potential but AT&T screwed it up by targeting 25mbps per home. So the HD quality and number of simultaneous streams suffers. And the only thing Time Warner seems to want to contribute to the world is metered internet billing. Ugh. Thank god we can get DirecTV.


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## Marvin (Sep 14, 2003)

I was told today that it would be no earlier than 2020 before FIOS was available to me at my present address. If I lived further in town it would be sooner, but still at least 5-6 years. I was hoping they'd offer to call me when it was available...


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## dcowboy7 (May 23, 2008)

Marvin said:


> I was told today that it would be no earlier than 2020 before FIOS was available to me at my present address.


2020....are u really sure your on earth ?


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## Brock (May 1, 2009)

i'll never get fios internet because i download so much illegal stuff lol

i like my backwoods cable internet provider.. granted i pay a bunch for it for not having cable tv service lol


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

I noticed the FIOS box has an esata port, can you hook up an external drive? If so who cares about the drive that comes with the Unit!



Steve said:


> Both true. TiVoHD XL comes with either .5 or 1 TB drive, vs. 160GB in the FiOS Motorola box. Details here.
> 
> Monthly TiVO charges are comparable to monthly Verizon DVR prices, but there's no upfront equipment outlay with Verizon. /steve


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

You just made the most important post of the whole thread but it will most likely just Pass right over most peoples heads.

FIOS has the best Picture you can possibly get (PERIOD)



Steve said:


> Verizon passes along the original broadcast signal, unaltered and uncompressed. /steve


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

Not anymore, the DVR does not work for long without a signal.



DodgerKing said:


> FiOS is in my area and I thought about switching but wont for 2 reasons.
> 
> 
> We cannot take it with us when we travel or to our other place in Mammoth like we can with DirecTV
> ...


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## DodgerKing (Apr 28, 2008)

dreadlk said:


> Not anymore, the DVR does not work for long without a signal.


I do it all of the time. I just used my DVR from my house 300 miles away in our townhouse for an entire week. What are you talking about?


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## Albie (Jan 26, 2007)

dreadlk said:


> You just made the most important post of the whole thread but it will most likely just Pass right over most peoples heads.
> 
> FIOS has the best Picture you can possibly get (PERIOD)


Well, not quite but close.


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## dcowboy7 (May 23, 2008)

dreadlk said:


> You just made the most* important *post of the whole thread but it will most likely just Pass right over most peoples heads.
> 
> FIOS has the best Picture you can possibly get (PERIOD)


But again the *important* point is:

if i cant get sunday ticket who cares.


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## CorkyMuldoon (Oct 6, 2006)

spartanstew said:


> Nope.
> 
> I've had FIOS capability here for 5 years. There's nothing they offer that's better for me than what D* has, but D* has many things that are better than what FIOS has.


Same here...


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## Aztec Pilot (Oct 11, 2007)

I will likely go back to Verizon for internet when Fios comes to town. Not phone ot tv.


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## captain_video (Nov 22, 2005)

I switched to FIOS over two years ago and never looked back. At the time, FIOS had the best picture quality anywhere (the DirecTV mpeg2 HD channels were laughable in comparison). I have not seen what the latest mpeg4 HD channels look like with DirecTV so I can't make any comments about their current picture quality vs. FIOS. FIOS uses less compression so I can only assume it's still better than DirecTV, although the margin is probably much narrower than it used to be. The internet service with FIOS is the best I've ever had and it is far better than what Comcrap had at a lower price. DirecTV only offers 4 local HD channels vs. the 12-14 I can get with FIOS from two adjacent markets.

*Reasons to switch to FIOS:*

Over 100 HD channels
Best internet service anywhere
Discount when you combine TV, phone, and internet with Verizon
One monthly bill for all services, including wireless if you have Verizon cell phone service
The ability to use a Tivo HD or S3 Tivo (the Motorola DVR offered by FIOS is very basic and should satisy the indiscriminate user; Tivo users will probably hate it as it has numerous shortcomings)
Channels offered with FIOS that DirecTV doesn't provide

*Reasons to stay with DirecTV:*

Sports packages
If you're currently happy with the service and don't care about the different channels FIOS offers
If you're happy with the DirecTV DVR

Monthly fees for the various packages can be widely different depending on the types of services you get. Basic packages should be pretty close in price so check to see where you can realize any savings in any given area before deciding which service is right for you.

I have several STBs in my household but they are used exclusively by other members of my family. I have two S3 Tivos with cablecards so I do not have access to the FIOS program guide, On-Demand or any other special features so I can't make any comments on them either. They are of no interest to me, but if they're important to you then you should include them in your evaluation.


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## captain_video (Nov 22, 2005)

Albie said:


> Well, not quite but close.


Perhaps you'd like to qualify that statement and tell us who has a better offering? OTA reception will give you the best PQ of any current provider, including FIOS. Other than that, I'd have to agree with the other comment that FIOS has the best PQ based on my observations.


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## kenva (Dec 29, 2006)

About a month ago I was seriously considering switching, so I called D* and said I wanted to cancel. In the end D* came through with an offer that I just couldn't turn down, so I will be staying at least for a while.


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## Albie (Jan 26, 2007)

captain_video said:


> Perhaps you'd like to qualify that statement and tell us who has a better offering? OTA reception will give you the best PQ of any current provider, including FIOS. Other than that, I'd have to agree with the other comment that FIOS has the best PQ based on my observations.


Just questioning the statement that they have the best picture quality period. I've seen some backhauls and other feeds on large buds pumping out 35+ mbps that look spectacular. Granted if the comment was strictly for commercial providers (Sat, Cable, Fiber) then he is likely right right.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

FIOS = OTA. They don't do anything to degrade the original broadcast data. So no signal will look _*better *_than FiOS, inlcuding OTA.

_That's not to say others can't look *as good* as FiOS, however!_

E.g., my DirecTV MPEG-4 locals look as good as their OTA counterparts during normal playback. The only difference is in the smoothness of the trickplay.

Just my .02 and observation. /steve


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## loudo (Mar 24, 2005)

Steve said:


> FIOS = OTA. They don't do anything to degrade the original broadcast data. So no signal will look _*better *_than FiOS, inlcuding OTA.
> 
> _That's not to say others can't look *as good* as FiOS, however!_
> 
> ...


Many people associate video degradation with any form of video, because of the old video tape days when one would record a show, on tape, and when it was played back it never looked as good as the original broadcast. Degradation is greatly reduced with the use of digital video. I have OTA for my HD locals and when I compare them to the DirecTV channels of the same station, I see no difference in the PQ.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

loudo said:


> Many people associate video degradation with any form of video, because of the old video tape days when one would record a show, on tape, and when it was played back it never looked as good as the original broadcast. Degradation is greatly reduced with the use of digital video.


Yup. In the case of DirecTV, I think the degradation caused by MPEG-4 recompression of an already compressed (MPEG-2) signal is more theoretical than actual. *loudo* and I both agree that our MPEG-4 locals look as good as our OTA locals. /steve


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## Todd H (Aug 18, 2006)

Definitely! For me picture quality is number 1. In fact, the thought of FIOS teamed with a Tivo HD DVR makes me drool. Of course, I live in AT&T land so FIOS will never make it my way. I'm sure U-Verse will eventually be an option but after seeing how bad the picture is at a relative's house there's not a chance in h*** I'd ever leave DirecTV for U-Verse.


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## ccsoftball7 (Apr 2, 2003)

Steve said:


> *loudo* and I both agree that our MPEG-4 locals look as good as our OTA locals. /steve


+1 more...


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## beer_geek (Jun 14, 2007)

Without Sunday Ticket, I'm not going anywhere.


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## Grydlok (Mar 31, 2007)

beer_geek said:


> Without Sunday Ticket, I'm not going anywhere.


you're in a SBC(AT&T) market so you will never have to worry.


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## Marvin (Sep 14, 2003)

dcowboy7 said:


> 2020....are u really sure your on earth ?


The Verizon rep told me it would be about 10 years before they would get around to running fiber out in the country where I am, which is a big farming/chicken house area. Comcast doesn't even run cable out here so everyone has dishes (some still have the big C-Band ones) and we can't get DSL or anything. Heck, Directv still doesn't offer locals here though I have no need for them since I can pick up the 4 channels fine with an antenna. The only thing thats saved my sanity is that sprint has a cell phone tower about 750 feet from my house and Im able to get sprint EVDO off it on an account that doesn't have a 5 GB cap yet, though im paying $60/month for what is basically glorified wireless low speed DSL.


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## ajc68 (Jan 23, 2008)

I see in the Los Angeles market the FIOS HD selection is far superior to that of D*. But I didn't see anything about sports packages on the website. Obviously, they don't have NFL Sunday Ticket, but do they offer any of the other pro and college sports packages?

Also, I see that Verizon and AT&T may be in the running to purchase D*. If Verizon were to acquire D* would that give FIOS access to Sunday Ticket?


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## dcowboy7 (May 23, 2008)

beer_geek said:


> Without Sunday Ticket, I'm not going anywhere.





Grydlok said:


> you're in a SBC(AT&T) market so you will never have to worry.


But i can get both AT&T & Verizon here.


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## xmguy (Mar 27, 2008)

We have Verizon Wireless but not Landline. Very small town. FiOS or U-Verse will NEVER come here. So NO


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## Tom Servo (Mar 7, 2007)

It seems like most of the emphatic "no's" are coming from sports fans. So D* has a lock on HD for sports fans but not so much for general TV viewers.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Tom Servo said:


> It seems like most of the emphatic "no's" are coming from sports fans. So D* has a lock on HD for sports fans but not so much for general TV viewers.


Ya. At the end of the day, technology's great, but content is king!  /steve


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## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

Steve said:


> Ya. At the end of the day, technology's great, but content is king!  /steve


I agree, that's why I switched to FiOS. 

(Admittedly, I still have D* for NFLST.)


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## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

ajc68 said:


> I see in the Los Angeles market the FIOS HD selection is far superior to that of D*. But I didn't see anything about sports packages on the website. Obviously, they don't have NFL Sunday Ticket, but do they offer any of the other pro and college sports packages?
> 
> Also, I see that Verizon and AT&T may be in the running to purchase D*. If Verizon were to acquire D* would that give FIOS access to Sunday Ticket?


FiOS has the other pro sports packages like MLB EI, NHL CI, and NBA FC. I'm not sure about college sports packages.

They do not have as many games in HD as D* because they get their content from OnDemand rather than directly from the original content providers as D* does.

Verizon purchasing D*? As a FiOS TV customer who keeps D* only for NFL ST, I can only hope.


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## machavez00 (Nov 2, 2006)

Verizon would have to buy Qwest before FIOS comes their territory. Qwest is getting out of the video business and switching their subs to DirecTV.


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## RACJ2 (Aug 2, 2008)

dcowboy7 said:


> But i can get both AT&T & Verizon here.


I was curious about your statement and checked an address in your city. Neither Fios or Uverse was available. You eitehr live in an AT&T or Verizon area and will only be offered their product. Not sure what you are referring to, unless its mobile phone service.


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## tduffney (Oct 30, 2007)

maybe........


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## dcowboy7 (May 23, 2008)

RACJ2 said:


> I was curious about your statement and checked an address in your city. Neither Fios or Uverse was available. You eitehr live in an AT&T or Verizon area and will only be offered their product. Not sure what you are referring to, unless its mobile phone service.


FIOS is available here....i have the high speed internet & phone bundle....didnt take the tv/internet/phone bundle they offered due to sunday ticket.

*edit:* Peq, nj is my other house so thats what the glitch here is if that was your lookup.


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## JayB (Mar 19, 2007)

Cincinnati Bell has started rolling out fiber recently - so far, it's just in a few apartment complexes around town and in a single affluent area just outside downtown, so I don't have that option yet. But, when it gets to me, it'll be tempting. I can get 30mb/s internet, phone, and TV for about $30 to $40 a month less than I can now using the combination of Vonage/Road Runner/DirecTV. Now, on the down side, while they have my "have to have" HDs, they don't have many of my "like to have" HDs.

So, short answer - I'll consider it.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

Since the F5 Firmware came out the unit now keeps reseting if it does not have the Guide loaded. I asked around and other forum members said it was because some people where loading up there HD's with Movies etc, then disconnecting the unit and dropping there subscription.



DodgerKing said:


> I do it all of the time. I just used my DVR from my house 300 miles away in our townhouse for an entire week. What are you talking about?


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

I have one of those large BUDs and have the feeds your talking about and I agree they are better but in the real world how many people have this kind of equipment? So for 99.5% of people FIOS is the best HD they will ever see.



Albie said:


> Just questioning the statement that they have the best picture quality period. I've seen some backhauls and other feeds on large buds pumping out 35+ mbps that look spectacular. Granted if the comment was strictly for commercial providers (Sat, Cable, Fiber) then he is likely right right.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

So is anybody going to post a Proper (unbiased) Poll on this ???


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## platinum (Oct 28, 2002)

I was a happy D* customer for 14yrs and just recently switched over to fios.
I had D* for tv, cablevision for internet and vonage for phone. I'm saving 100 a month by subscribing to verizons triple play.
I'm very happy so far with the fios service and have no regrets.


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## Grydlok (Mar 31, 2007)

dcowboy7 said:


> But i can get both AT&T & Verizon here.


Verizon is only overbuilding in certain markets in TX.


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## Brandon428 (Mar 21, 2007)

They just started offering FTTH in Lafayette. There offering 50 up and down for $57.99 with no contract. http://lusfiber.com/If I could get FFTH I would right now.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Tom Servo said:


> It seems like most of the emphatic "no's" are coming from sports fans. So D* has a lock on HD for sports fans but not so much for general TV viewers.


Here's an emphatic NO for you. As soon as my subscription to Verizon wireless runs out, I'm dropping it. If you think that D*'s CSRs are bad, try a Verizon store or call them up. Even Verizon's accounting department is bad. Great wireless network, but that's all that's good about them. And if they run FIOS the same way...

Rich


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

dreadlk said:


> So is anybody going to post a Proper (unbiased) Poll on this ???


You can try. 

Mike


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## dcowboy7 (May 23, 2008)

Grydlok said:


> Verizon is only overbuilding in certain markets in TX.


What does that mean ?


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

dcowboy7 said:


> What does that mean ?


It means that they're building into AT&T territory. They're doing that in parts of CA too.


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## ciurca (Apr 14, 2009)

jpl said:


> It means that they're building into AT&T territory. They're doing that in parts of CA too.


Do territories still exist with retail de-regulation of utilities?


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

They have a lock on NFLST and thats about it. If the other Mod was right and they only have 2 million NFLST subscribers, that wont be enough to help them out should FIOS keep rolling out the way it is now.

The real shame is that Directv could win but they still do not grasp there own problem!
Directv believes that a DVR with 1000 bells and whistles is the way to go, meanwhile Verizon understands that a simple reliable DVR and better HD picture is what will win the war. IMHO the main thing that matters to me is that I come home and my shows are recorded, thats 99% of the equation for me.

If anything can kill Directv it's the bad reputation of these HR2x receivers, it has reached the point where I now hear coworkers talking about getting Directv and others saying "you might want to reconsider, I hear the Equipment gives problems".

Some of this has been fixed but the bad reviews are still all over the internet.



Tom Servo said:


> It seems like most of the emphatic "no's" are coming from sports fans. So D* has a lock on HD for sports fans but not so much for general TV viewers.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

dreadlk said:


> They have a lock on NFLST and thats about it. If the other Mod was right and they only have 2 million NFLST subscribers, that wont be enough to help them out should FIOS keep rolling out the way it is now.


Pricing may also affect potential churn. In one or two DVR homes, Verizon is comparably priced to DirecTV, taking into account the "triple play" discount. Once you start adding boxes, tho, the scales tip in DirecTV's favor. Last I checked, Verizon's DVR's were $10-$12/month more than HR2x's (and only offered up to 20 hours of HD storage).

I am in a Verizon-served area. I've had (and love) Verizon FiOS internet service for almost 3 years now. But with 6 DVR's and 1 non-DVR HD box, it's cheaper for me to stay with FiOS Internet, Vonage and DirecTV than it is to go all Verizon, even with their triple-play pricing. /steve


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## 456521 (Jul 6, 2007)

I just ordered three Tivo HD boxes. I'm going to dump DirecTV for FiOS. I can't say that I'm totally dissatisfied with DirecTV, but I'm the type of techie that gets the urge to try a new toy once in while. With the triple play bundle the monthly cost of the TV service is about the same as what I'm paying DirecTV. Obviously, the cost of three Tivo HD units will not be recouped, but the ability to extract recordings off the Tivo and Netflix streaming is a huge bonus for me. And I'll finally get Comcast Sportsnet Northwest.

In a couple of years I'll re-evaluate my options and I'm still waiting for someone to finally deliver a whole-house solution.


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## Brennok (Dec 23, 2005)

GoBeavs said:


> Obviously, the cost of three Tivo HD units will not be recouped, but the ability to extract recordings off the Tivo and Netflix streaming is a huge bonus for me.
> 
> In a couple of years I'll re-evaluate my options and I'm still waiting for someone to finally deliver a whole-house solution.


This is one of the big things that interests me especially since I just setting up a wired network in my house. With a Tivo in each room you could technically have a whole house solution. Obviously there are still some disadvantages such as no option for one box to control all the season passes or at least to share season passes so you don't have to manage each box.

Other than that with things like pytivo, kmttg and streambaby you can pretty much have a whole house solution especially if you have a home server.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Brennok said:


> This is one of the big things that interests me especially since I just setting up a wired network in my house. With a Tivo in each room you could technically have a whole house solution. Obviously there are still some disadvantages such as no option for one box to control all the season passes or at least to share season passes so you don't have to manage each box.
> 
> Other than that with things like pytivo, kmttg and streambaby you can pretty much have a whole house solution especially if you have a home server.


If it wasn't for _streambaby_, I'd say if you were content with the scenario you described above, you're probably only 2-3 months away from having the same capability with DirecTV. It's in beta right now.

_Streambaby_, OTOH, for remote playback of server-based video files, is vastly superior to DirecTV's media sharing because it apparently supports trickplay.

Just my .02. /steve


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

GoBeavs said:


> I just ordered three Tivo HD boxes. I'm going to dump DirecTV for FiOS. I can't say that I'm totally dissatisfied with DirecTV, but I'm the type of techie that gets the urge to try a new toy once in while. With the triple play bundle the monthly cost of the TV service is about the same as what I'm paying DirecTV. Obviously, the cost of three Tivo HD units will not be recouped, but the ability to extract recordings off the Tivo and Netflix streaming is a huge bonus for me. And I'll finally get Comcast Sportsnet Northwest.
> 
> In a couple of years I'll re-evaluate my options and I'm still waiting for someone to finally deliver a whole-house solution.


I was just talking to a guy in Costco yesterday that had tried NetFlix streaming and he disliked it. This wasn't the usual type of person I run into at Costco. This guy was had toys galore. When I told him about the forum, he whipped out his I-Phone and went right to it to check it out. He's a D* sub, but had never heard of our little world.

Anyhow, he has tried the NetFlix streaming video and said that you couldn't store anything, such as we can with our VOD. Rewinding to catch missed parts of movies takes an inordinately long time with NetFlix streaming and he was really interested when I told him about the 1080p VOD offerings on D* and how it worked. After talking to him, I don't think I'll be trying the NetFlix streaming video.

I don't get the TiVos. I thought FIOS had their own HD-DVRs. Am I wrong? Or do you have the option of using TiVos or FIOS DVRs?

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Steve said:


> If it wasn't for _streambaby_, I'd say if you were content with the scenario you described above, you're probably only 2-3 months away from having the same capability with DirecTV. It's in beta right now.
> 
> _Streambaby_, OTOH, for remote playback of server-based video files, is vastly superior to DirecTV's media sharing because it apparently supports trickplay.
> 
> Just my .02. /steve


I really wish the forum would ban acronyms (except for the few that I use regularly :lol: ), I've just spent (wasted) ten minutes trying to figure out what OTOH means. I give up. What does it mean?

Rich


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

rich584 said:


> I really wish the forum would ban acronyms (except for the few that I use regularly :lol: ), I've just spent (wasted) ten minutes trying to figure out what OTOH means.


But look at all the time I saved typing, because I could abbreviate it! :lol:



> I give up. What does it mean?


On the other hand.

FWIW , general acronym finder can be found here. DBSTalk acronym finder here. /steve


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Steve said:


> But look at all the time I saved typing because I could abbreviate it! :lol:
> 
> On the other hand.
> 
> FWIW , general acronym finder can be found here. DBSTalk acronym finder here. /steve


Thanx, Steve. The general one I had. In fact I have had several general acronym dictionaries and they all turned up too many results. Didn't know that there was a D* acronym finder. I will use that.

Rich


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## RCY (Nov 17, 2005)

Anyone here actually have experience with the FIOS DVR?


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

RCY said:


> Anyone here actually have experience with the FIOS DVR?


My son and two sisters have them. Limited storage (20 hours of HD), otherwise very nice search, very "snappy" in terms of channel changing and any other functions, like widgets. VOD is incredible, thanks to the bandwidth they blast inside your home. The minute you start playing a show, you can fast forward into it. No "spooling" required. /steve


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## Brennok (Dec 23, 2005)

Steve said:


> If it wasn't for _streambaby_, I'd say if you were content with the scenario you described above, you're probably only 2-3 months away from having the same capability with DirecTV. It's in beta right now.
> 
> _Streambaby_, OTOH, for remote playback of server-based video files, is vastly superior to DirecTV's media sharing because it apparently supports trickplay.
> 
> Just my .02. /steve


Streambaby for me would just be an added bonus. I am more interested in pytivo and kmttg. My plan is to build a second server dedicated to the Tivo and just have every recording automatically dump to the server every night so all the recordings are in one place. This is of course assuming the new Directivo supports this like Tivo does. If not I figure by then series 4 might out or at least announced.


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## 456521 (Jul 6, 2007)

rich584 said:


> I was just talking to a guy in Costco yesterday that had tried NetFlix streaming and he disliked it. This wasn't the usual type of person I run into at Costco. This guy was had toys galore. When I told him about the forum, he whipped out his I-Phone and went right to it to check it out. He's a D* sub, but had never heard of our little world.
> 
> Anyhow, he has tried the NetFlix streaming video and said that you couldn't store anything, such as we can with our VOD. Rewinding to catch missed parts of movies takes an inordinately long time with NetFlix streaming and he was really interested when I told him about the 1080p VOD offerings on D* and how it worked. After talking to him, I don't think I'll be trying the NetFlix streaming video.
> 
> ...


I'm already streaming Netflix using an Xbox 360 and the Roku Player. It's mainly used by my kids to watch their favorite Disney shows and other kids movies. It works great for that purpose.

You have the option of using Tivos or the FiOS DVRs.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

RCY said:


> Anyone here actually have experience with the FIOS DVR?


Yep - I have their Home Media (aka multi-room) DVR. I concur with many of the remarks about it:

Cons:
1) Small storage space with no option to expand. The fact that FiOS doesn't add any compression causes the box to really suck down space. For example, when I had DirecTV, their SD feeds would take about 1 GB/hour (never had their HD, so I don't know what they would run at). With FiOS, also running mpeg-2 (like DirecTV's SD), it takes 2 - 3 GB per hour.

2) There is some functionality that I miss from DirecTV - there's no autotune/wishlist function. The keyword search is a tad lacking. And you can't store searches.

3) VOD uses one of the DVR's tuners. If I'm recording two things, I can't access VOD at that point.

Pros:
1) Fast - someone mentioned channel changes being fast. They are. The guide is especially quick.

2) Color-coding - ok, this is a small one, but why systems like DirecTV got away from that is beyond me.

3) The search, while missing some basic functionality, does have some niceties to it. I can choose between methods for searching, I can search by content (e.g. VOD only, TV listings only, DVR recordings only), and they do wildcards in the searches, implicitely. It returns listings not alphabetically, but based on 'relevence'.

4) Their multi-room streaming works amazingly well. The PQ is impressive. The response on your other set top boxes is a tad slow, since everything gets fed via your router, but still it's nice. And I can stream to three TVs at the same time (including the one with the DVR). I can pause/stop play on one TV, move to another TV and pick up right where I left off.

5) I love the streaming of digital music and pictures from PC to DVR - I'm listening to a CD right now, doing that. The PQ and sound quality are amazingly good. Video streaming is coming very soon.

6) Even though they don't advertize it, they have remote DVR booking. Initially it was only available to people with the Home Media version of the DVR, but now is available to everyone. And it's amazingly flexible (although I do have my nits). I can set up/delete recordings, and series too (although I can't change series options), I can bookmark VOD offerings, I can change my parental controls, and I can update my favorites lists.

Edit - one last thing, which I found pretty amazing (read this off an interview with one of their senior VPs). The DVR doesn't store stuff like guide data or VOD. That's all done on their servers, and when you access your guide, e.g., it gets fed down from Verizon at that point. Ditto all the VOD offerings. One reason that's really nice - if I reset my DVR (pull the plug) it comes back in about a minute, with a full complement of guide data.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

jpl said:


> 4) Their multi-room streaming works amazingly well. The PQ is impressive. The response on your other set top boxes is a tad slow, since everything gets fed via your router, but still it's nice. And I can stream to three TVs at the same time (including the one with the DVR). I can pause/stop play on one TV, move to another TV and pick up right where I left off.


When you say stream to 3 TV's at the same time, can each client access a different show? If so, can they all FF, RW, etc, independent of what the other clients are doing? And can 3 clients watch the same show, but trick play through different parts of it? So, e.g., I'm watching the first half hour at the same time you're watching the last half hour and a third viewer might be paused in the middle of the same show?

I think one other "pro" may be 7.1 Dolby Digital for those that might be interested in that feature. Only available on the multimedia server, tho, IIRC. /steve


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

Steve said:


> When you say stream to 3 TV's at the same time, can each client access a different show? If so, can they all FF, RW, etc, independent of what the other clients are doing? And can 3 clients watch the same show, but trick play through different parts of it? So, e.g., I'm watching the first half hour at the same time you're watching the last half hour and a third viewer might be paused in the middle of the same show?
> 
> I think one other "pro" may be 7.1 Dolby Digital for those that might be interested in that feature. Only available on the multimedia server, tho, IIRC. /steve


Yes, they all have independent feeds. I've tested this out. I can start show X on the DVR, and start the same show on a second TV. Both will run independently - I can ffwd one while rewinding the other, e.g. Or I can play show X on one TV, show Y on another, and show Z on a third.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Steve said:


> But look at all the time I saved typing, because I could abbreviate it! :lol:


Look at all the time we've spent on that one acronym. :lol:



> On the other hand.
> 
> FWIW , general acronym finder can be found here. DBSTalk acronym finder here. /steve


Just switched to a different computer and had to look it up again :lol:. Here's a question I have pondered for many hours (I do a lot of pondering): Why is "abbreviation" such a long word?

HAND

Rich


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

jpl said:


> Yes, they all have independent feeds. I've tested this out. I can start show X on the DVR, and start the same show on a second TV. Both will run independently - I can ffwd one while rewinding the other, e.g. Or I can play show X on one TV, show Y on another, and show Z on a third.


That's very cool.  Didn't know those Moto boxes had all that horsepower! /steve


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## RCY (Nov 17, 2005)

jpl said:


> Yep - I have their Home Media (aka multi-room) DVR. I concur with many of the remarks about it:
> 
> Cons:
> 1) Small storage space with no option to expand. The fact that FiOS doesn't add any compression causes the box to really suck down space. For example, when I had DirecTV, their SD feeds would take about 1 GB/hour (never had their HD, so I don't know what they would run at). With FiOS, also running mpeg-2 (like DirecTV's SD), it takes 2 - 3 GB per hour.
> ...


Any way to user upgrade the hard disk? I had heard that there is only a 160 gb drive. For my HTPC, with 1.5 TB, I can store over 100 hours of HD. Swapping in a 1 TB drive would yield over 60 hours of HD, which would be adequate for me.


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## Grydlok (Mar 31, 2007)

Steve said:


> That's very cool.  Didn't know those Moto boxes had all that horsepower! /steve


It doesn't work that smooth. 
The GUIDE info is Horrible.


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## Grydlok (Mar 31, 2007)

RCY said:


> Any way to user upgrade the hard disk? .


Nope


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

Grydlok said:


> It doesn't work that smooth.
> The GUIDE info is Horrible.


What isn't that smooth? I don't follow what you're referring to. The question was: can you watch things (even the same program) independently on different TVs? And the answer is: yes, you can. There are nits that I have with their MRV - there is a latency when doing trick play from another TV (which I mentioned in another post). That's due to the architecture of their MRV feeds. There was an issue that many had with a recent s/w release where the other STBs would lose connectivity while watching a show, but that's (from what I understand) largely been fixed - I only hit it once... quite a few months ago.

And just to clarify - you can only feed HD to two TVs at the same time - the one with the DVR and another HD STB.

I guess one other limitation is that you can't currently feed DVR -> DVR, which would be nice if you could. Overall, though, I think their MRV works remarkably well - I always figured the PQ would take a hit (not sure why I'd think that), but it doesn't.

Edit - Oh, and yeah, one other nit - I can't manage (add/delete) recordings from my other STBs. I can only play back a recording. If I want to manage my recordings, I have to go to the DVR (or do it online via their remote DVR booking).


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

jpl said:


> And just to clarify - you can only feed HD to two TVs at the same time - the one with the DVR and another HD STB. [...]


Now I'm not quite as impressed, unless you tell me it will automatically down sample an HD program to SD for the 2nd and 3d clients.  Otherwise, if you mainly record HD, it's just a 1-stream solution.

I understand those are probably 15 Mbps HD streams, but I think even MoCa 1.0 provides about 100 Mbps effective throughput, so I'm not sure why they can't provide more than one HD stream, unless it's a processing bottleneck, as opposed to a network limitation. /steve


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Grydlok said:


> Nope


So all you get is 20 hours of HD. And no eSATA hookup, no way to stick a large HDD into the box?

Rich


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

Steve said:


> Now I'm not quite as impressed, unless you tell me it will automatically down sample an HD program to SD for the 2nd and 3d clients.  Otherwise, if you mainly record HD, it's just a 1-stream solution.
> 
> I understand those are probably 15 Mbps HD streams, but I think even MoCa 1.0 provides about 100 Mbps effective throughput, so I'm not sure why they can't provide more than one HD stream, unless it's a processing bottleneck, as opposed to a network limitation. /steve


Yeah, sorry - I should have been clearer with that. Correct, it can currently only handle one HD stream to another STB at a time (plus one for the DVR itself). I understand that more will be coming. It can do 3 (2 plus the one to the TV with the DVR) for SD. Or, I could do 2 HD, plus an SD. Streaming HD is actually fairly new - they only added that some 6-8 months ago. Before that it would only stream SD and would only work if you had an SD box on the other end (i.e. I couldn't have an HD STB on another TV). Now you can stream HD if you have another HD box on another TV.

Unfortunately it doesn't downcovert it for you (I really wish it did). If I record HD I can't stream it to an SD STB on another TV. Now that they have HD streaming I'm probably going to upgrade my one SD STB to an HD STB, so I could stream more stuff to my other TV. Plus with all the HD-only channels they have, it sucks not being able to watch them on my other TVs.

As for why - I'm betting that there may be some limitation with the router that they use. They've been rolling out newer versions of the Actiontec, with higher specs, for it may be that the limitation is due to that (since everything gets fed through the router).


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

jpl said:


> Yeah, sorry - I should have been clearer with that. Correct, it can currently only handle one HD stream to another STB at a time (plus one for the DVR itself). I understand that more will be coming. It can do 3 (2 plus the one to the TV with the DVR) for SD. Or, I could do 2 HD, plus an SD. Streaming HD is actually fairly new - they only added that some 6-8 months ago. Before that it would only stream SD and would only work if you had an SD box on the other end (i.e. I couldn't have an HD STB on another TV). Now you can stream HD if you have another HD box on another TV.
> 
> Unfortunately it doesn't downcovert it for you (I really wish it did). If I record HD I can't stream it to an SD STB on another TV. Now that they have HD streaming I'm probably going to upgrade my one SD STB to an HD STB, so I could stream more stuff to my other TV. Plus with all the HD-only channels they have, it sucks not being able to watch them on my other TVs.
> 
> As for why - I'm betting that there may be some limitation with the router that they use. They've been rolling out newer versions of the Actiontec, with higher specs, for it may be that the limitation is due to that (since everything gets fed through the router).


But you can't upgrade the original hard drive to gain more capacity in any way?

Rich


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

rich584 said:


> So all you get is 20 hours of HD. And no eSATA hookup, no way to stick a large HDD into the box?
> 
> Rich


Correct. Their later DVRs do have eSATA, but it's not currently enabled. They really do need to do something about the recording space. It's not a horrible issue for me - I've never been an intense DVR super-user, but during certain times of the year, I end up filling up the box pretty quickly. I also tend to rely a good bit on VOD. But I can see where this would be a big issue for many.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

rich584 said:


> But you can't upgrade the original hard drive to gain more capacity in any way?
> 
> Rich


No. Power DVR users tend to opt for an off-the-shelf DVR solution. Either TiVo, or now many are starting to migrate over to the Moxi.


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## joed32 (Jul 27, 2006)

rich584 said:


> I was just talking to a guy in Costco yesterday that had tried NetFlix streaming and he disliked it. This wasn't the usual type of person I run into at Costco. This guy was had toys galore. When I told him about the forum, he whipped out his I-Phone and went right to it to check it out. He's a D* sub, but had never heard of our little world.
> 
> Anyhow, he has tried the NetFlix streaming video and said that you couldn't store anything, such as we can with our VOD. Rewinding to catch missed parts of movies takes an inordinately long time with NetFlix streaming and he was really interested when I told him about the 1080p VOD offerings on D* and how it worked. After talking to him, I don't think I'll be trying the NetFlix streaming video.
> 
> ...


Why would you want to store anything? It's always there when you want to watch it and it remembers where you left off, I love it. The rewind is awkward.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

jpl said:


> [...]As for why - I'm betting that there may be some limitation with the router that they use. They've been rolling out newer versions of the Actiontec, with higher specs, for it may be that the limitation is due to that (since everything gets fed through the router).


I'm a FiOS internet customer, so I've used that router and it's 100Mbps, so it shouldn't be a bottleneck. I wonder if it's possible the boxes may be configured to communicate peer-to-peer for MRV, and not go through the router? /steve


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## ShrikeT (Jun 3, 2008)

Probably not, mostly because of the amount of money I've already invested into D* in the short time I've had it (about a year). Between 2 HD DVRs and having to purchase and install the SWM system myself, I've put in over $400. It would be silly to just burn that cash if FiOS becomes available.

That's not really a problem where I live though, since it's all AT&T country and UVerse would be the only option I have. From what I've read, their picture quality isn't up to D*'s so I wouldn't even consider the switch.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

Steve said:


> I'm a FiOS internet customer, so I've used that router and it's 100Mbps, so it shouldn't be a bottleneck. I wonder if it's possible the boxes may be configured to communicate peer-to-peer for MRV, and not go through the router? /steve


I'm pretty sure it goes through the router. I could test it out easily enough - I can shut off my router and then try to access the recordings off my stand-alone STB. I didn't realize the router could handle that kind of load. Maybe there was some conscious decision to limit the feeds. I don't have any real inside info, but I was always of the impression that multiple HD feeds could be handled, but that they're just currently not.


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## Grydlok (Mar 31, 2007)

rich584 said:


> So all you get is 20 hours of HD. And no eSATA hookup, no way to stick a large HDD into the box?
> 
> Rich


That's it.


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## Grydlok (Mar 31, 2007)

jpl said:


> What isn't that smooth? I don't follow what you're referring to. The question was: can you watch things (even the same program) independently on different TVs? And the answer is: yes, you can. There are nits that I have with their MRV - there is a latency when doing trick play from another TV (which I mentioned in another post). That's due to the architecture of their MRV feeds. There was an issue that many had with a recent s/w release where the other STBs would lose connectivity while watching a show, but that's (from what I understand) largely been fixed - I only hit it once... quite a few months ago.
> 
> And just to clarify - you can only feed HD to two TVs at the same time - the one with the DVR and another HD STB.
> 
> ...


sigh, lets not get into "can't find server" error shall we.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

Grydlok said:


> sigh, lets not get into "can't find server" error shall we.


That's the reason I'm asking - I wasn't trying to be a wise guy. I didn't understand what you meant by it not being that smooth. I've only hit that error once, months ago. I thought the latest s/w was supposed to fix that issue. If you are still seeing it, I wonder if it's related to the particular hardware you have (e.g. I have the 6416 DVR with a 2500 SD box on the other TV - if you're running, say, the 7216 DVR and the HD box - can't remember the model number for that - then that could be the reason you're seeing that issue and I'm not). That's not to excuse it if it is happening - I was just looking for clarification.

For my use, the multi-room feed works really well. My only real nit is that I can't feed HD recordings to my SD box. The other stuff - the latency on the trick-play, the lack of ability to manage recordings on my other STB - are minor for me. I'm also interested in your particular set-up because I am thinking of upgrading my SD box to an HD box. If that configuration is still having problems with connectivity, then I'd likely hold off until they correct it.


----------



## Reggie3 (Feb 20, 2006)

Depending on price - probably would switch for the faster Internet if the Programikng packages are similar


----------



## cmtar (Nov 16, 2005)

If its cheaper than yes, no complaints with D* but in the end its all just tv, im just looking for the cheapest deal.


----------



## manta07 (Dec 26, 2007)

I probably would because FIOS supports CableCard which is supported by Windows Media Center which my entire house is operating on.

Unless the rumor on project Darco (or Draco) turns to be true.


----------



## w3syt (Feb 17, 2006)

Grydlok said:


> That's it.


According to the Fios website the Esata external HD idea is working. I personally would like to confirm it, then I might be interested. Otherwise,,no way. It would save me about $40 if ESATA and multiroom really worked.


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

w3syt said:


> According to the Fios website the Esata external HD idea is working. I personally would like to confirm it, then I might be interested. Otherwise,,no way. It would save me about $40 if ESATA and multiroom really worked.


Remember, the "triple-play" pricing (at least in my area) does not include extra hardware. So if I'm not mistaken, the multi-room DVR is an add'l $19/month, regular DVR $15/month, "vanilla" STB/MRV client, $8/month.

And unlike DirecTV MRV, there's no DVR-DVR MRV'ing, so you're limited to 2 tuners for any MRV recordings. With DirecTV and two DVR's, e.g., I'll be able to record four shows at the same time on four different channels, and watch them all on any networked DVR or STB. /steve


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## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

Steve said:


> And unlike DirecTV MRV, there's no DVR-DVR MRV'ing, so you're limited to 2 tuners for any MRV recordings. With DirecTV and two DVR's, e.g., I'll be able to record four shows at the same time on four different channels, and watch them all on any networked DVR or STB. /steve


DirecTV currently doesn't have any kind of MRV - they're working on it. FiOS already has DVR to STB MRV, and is working on DVR to DVR MRV.


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## Grydlok (Mar 31, 2007)

w3syt said:


> According to the Fios website the Esata external HD idea is working. I personally would like to confirm it, then I might be interested. Otherwise,,no way. It would save me about $40 if ESATA and multiroom really worked.


it's not.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

Reaper said:


> DirecTV currently doesn't have any kind of MRV - they're working on it. FiOS already has DVR to STB MRV, and is working on DVR to DVR MRV.


Also they're (Verizon) working on adding a sling-like functionality to their stuff. Apparently that's coming pretty soon.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Reaper said:


> DirecTV currently doesn't have any kind of MRV - they're working on it. FiOS already has DVR to STB MRV, and is working on DVR to DVR MRV.


Yes, you're right! They're working on it.  /steve


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## dcowboy7 (May 23, 2008)

rich584 said:


> So all you get is 20 hours of HD. And no eSATA hookup, no way to stick a large HDD into the box?





Grydlok said:


> That's it.


But u can use a tivo instead & u can add an external hard drive to that.


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## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

dcowboy7 said:


> But u can use a tivo instead & u can add an external hard drive to that.


Or a Moxi HD DVR (http://moxi.com/us/home.html).

For my part, I'm sticking with the FiOS HD DVR and patiently waiting for Verizon to add external hard drive support. Aside from my two major complaints (small hard drive, 4:3 guide/menu interface), the FiOS DVR is quite good. And these two issues are likely to be resolved soon-ish. To me it just isn't worth paying for a Tivo HD or a Moxi.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

joed32 said:


> Why would you want to store anything? It's always there when you want to watch it and it remembers where you left off, I love it. The rewind is awkward.


The rewind was the his biggest complaint. Big enough for him to nix off NetFlix. As to storing stuff, I don't "archive" anything, but my wife travels a lot and right now I have the complete seasons of a whole bunch of shows on my HRs which we will watch when she stops traveling so much. Aside from that, I have no interest in "archiving" anything.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

jpl said:


> No. Power DVR users tend to opt for an off-the-shelf DVR solution. Either TiVo, or now many are starting to migrate over to the Moxi.


This is my interest in FIOS diminishing.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Grydlok said:


> That's it.


Another great business decision by Verizon.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

cmtar said:


> If its cheaper than yes, no complaints with D* but in the end its all just tv, im just looking for the cheapest deal.


The lowest bidder always does the crappiest job. Think that might apply here?

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Steve said:


> Yes, you're right! They're working on it.  /steve


My God, can't you just imagine going thru late '06 thru early '07 all over again with a new provider who's trying to figure out how to do multiple things and getting nothing done?

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

dcowboy7 said:


> But u can use a tivo instead & u can add an external hard drive to that.


And how much do you pay for those TiVos?

Rich


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## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

rich584 said:


> The lowest bidder always does the crappiest job. Think that might apply here?
> 
> Rich


No. FiOS has better quality HD and SD than D*, as well as more true national HD channels - 100 for FiOS (with 6 more being added this week) versus 70 for D* (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1058081).

And I for one prefer the FiOS DVR to D*'s HR2* series. It's faster, more responsive, easier to navigate, and has a richer interface. Sure, it has a smaller (okay tiney) hard drive, but again, that is expected to be addressed soon. The HR2* always felt slapped together to me, both in terms of hardware and software.

If it makes you feel better to think that D* is the best then by all means do so. But IMHO, you would be wrong.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Reaper said:


> No. FiOS has better quality HD and SD than D*, as well as more true national HD channels - 100 for FiOS (with 6 more being added this week) versus 70 for D* (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1058081).
> 
> And I for one prefer the FiOS DVR to D*'s HR2* series. It's faster, more responsive, easier to navigate, and has a richer interface. Sure, it has a smaller (okay tiney) hard drive, but again, that is expected to be addressed soon. The HR2* always felt slapped together to me, both in terms of hardware and software.
> 
> If it makes you feel better to think that D* is the best then by all means do so. But IMHO, you would be wrong.


I was just asking questions about something that I knew nothing about. I never said D* was the best provider. I don't know enough about FIOS to make a comparison. You could have left that last sentence out and we could have had an interesting conversation.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

rich584 said:


> My God, can't you just imagine going thru late '06 thru early '07 all over again with a new provider who's trying to figure out how to do multiple things and getting nothing done?
> 
> Rich


Actually, I think his 'they're working on it' comment was directed at DirecTV, not Verizon. While I don't think FiOS is for everyone (and I don't think anyone on here is claiming that it is), the notion that they're getting 'nothing done' is just simply not true.

As Steve pointed out, Verizon has a mutli-room DVR solution - and have had it from the beginning. Since then they've improved upon it (adding HD feeds). They have a positive track record on this front, while DirecTV has been talking about this going on 4 years now.

And while some complain about Verizon's DVR, I have to say I prefer it over the R15 (my experience with DirecTV's DVR). It's alot more intuitive and faster, with fewer idiosyncracies. Yes, it has a smaller harddrive... yes, I wish it were expandable. All of that is coming.

I was also trying to point out that if you are a DVR uber-user, there's a solution available (tivo, moxi).


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

jpl said:


> Actually, I think his 'they're working on it' comment was directed at DirecTV, not Verizon. While I don't think FiOS is for everyone (and I don't think anyone on here is claiming that it is), the notion that they're getting 'nothing done' is just simply not true.
> 
> As Steve pointed out, Verizon has a mutli-room DVR solution - and have had it from the beginning. Since then they've improved upon it (adding HD feeds). They have a positive track record on this front, while DirecTV has been talking about this going on 4 years now.
> 
> ...


New companies that come out will always have better tech then on going companies for awhile. They don't have to worry about support for older technology in a home.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

jpl said:


> Actually, I think his 'they're working on it' comment was directed at DirecTV, not Verizon. While I don't think FiOS is for everyone (and I don't think anyone on here is claiming that it is), the notion that they're getting 'nothing done' is just simply not true.
> 
> As Steve pointed out, Verizon has a mutli-room DVR solution - and have had it from the beginning. Since then they've improved upon it (adding HD feeds). They have a positive track record on this front, while DirecTV has been talking about this going on 4 years now.





> And while some complain about Verizon's DVR, I have to say I prefer it over the R15 (my experience with DirecTV's DVR). It's alot more intuitive and faster, with fewer idiosyncracies.


Aw, that's not a fair comparison. The R15 was an acknowledged piece of junk. Just getting one to work was difficult. I want to hear a comparison of Hi Def DVRs.



> Yes, it has a smaller harddrive... yes, I wish it were expandable. All of that is coming.


Doesn't the size of that hard drive make you wonder? Why would they do that?

If they do enable the eSATA function, will you be able to buy an eSATA of your choice or will they (Verizon) sell or lease to you their own proprietary eSATA at their choice of capacity levels?

Don't get the impression that I am a D* supporter. I think the way they introduced the HR was damn near criminal. I've said many times on this forum that if a better provider came along, I would quickly switch.

I'm definitely gonna switch to another provider for my cell phones. Verizon has the best network and the worst support imaginable. And their accounting department is a real lulu. One thing you can say for D* is that you never hear anyone complaining about improper billing. Verizon does that fairly frequently.



> I was also trying to point out that if you are a DVR uber-user, there's a solution available (tivo, moxi).


Would you consider a person with 9 HRs and over 10TBs of storage a (I can't remember how to put the umlaut above the u, so I'll use *) *ber-user? :lol:

I did see your reference to Moxi. I have no idea what that is and I was going to Google it, but I was actually watching a show when the notification of your post came thru and hadn't gotten around to it. I'll get to it.

Rich


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## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

rich584 said:


> I was just asking questions about something that I knew nothing about. I never said D* was the best provider. I don't know enough about FIOS to make a comparison. You could have left that last sentence out and we could have had an interesting conversation.


Your statement "The lowest bidder always does the crappiest job" was pretty strong and so I responded in kind.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Shades228 said:


> New companies that come out will always have better tech then on going companies for awhile. They don't have to worry about support for older technology in a home.


I've been with Verizon for a long time. Their land line service and support is good and always was. But the Verizon cell phone sales and support is terrible. And in my experience always was. FIOS? Somebody know?

I do agree with your premise tho. Same thing happens in retail stores. New Wal-Mart opens up and all the cash registers are manned, no lines. Wait a year and if you find 4 cash registers open you're lucky.

Rich


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## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

rich584 said:


> Doesn't the size of that hard drive make you wonder? Why would they do that?


My understanding is that they were able to get a bunch of these DVRs from Motorolla for cheap. Once they enable external storage this point will become moot anyway.


----------



## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

rich584 said:


> But the Verizon cell phone sales and support is terrible. And in my experience always was. FIOS? Somebody know?


Yep, it's terrible. Their voice menu system is the most obnoxious that I've ever experienced; it takes forever to get to a real person. Once you do, typically you have to be transferred several times to get the help you need.

Here D* has the clear advantage, but of course their offerings are much less diverse too.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Reaper said:


> Your statement "The lowest bidder always does the crappiest job" was pretty strong and so I responded in kind.


In industry, that is the accepted norm. The lowest bidder on a job usually does the worst job. I would think if a person chose a provider based solely on price, he'd get a poor provider.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

rich584 said:


> Aw, that's not a fair comparison. The R15 was an acknowledged piece of junk. Just getting one to work was difficult. I want to hear a comparison of Hi Def DVRs.
> 
> Doesn't the size of that hard drive make you wonder? Why would they do that?
> 
> ...


I never said you were a DirecTV fan-boy. You made an assessment that Verizon would mimic DirecTV's experience on the MRV front, and not get anything done. Their track-record proves otherwise. Yes, they are a new kid on the block, but in that short time they've advanced beyond what they initially were, and what they initially offered. They had SD MRV, now they have HD. They had SD VOD... now they have HD as well. They used to use a piece-o-crap guide s/w provided by Microsoft... they have since developed their own (which they've already enhanced significantly). They've expanded their widgets (ok, Facebook and Twitter aren't my thing, but the ability to do both from your TV is something that I can see people wanting - ditto the ability to manage your fantasy football team via your STB - all widgets that they've added)... they've added remote booking DVR functionality... they've always had picture and music streaming available (from PC to DVR), but they're adding video. They're also starting to roll out internet streaming too (YouTube, e.g.), and they're coming out with Sling-type functionality. Not exactly the track record of a company standing still.

Now, why did they only offer a 160GB harddrive? Because they made the decision to go with Motorola products, and the biggest harddrive they offer is 160GB. They have a somewhat different architecture from traditional cable, so they needed a cable box that was IP addressable - so they relied on Motorola's QIP series of boxes. Was that the wisest choice? Dunno. But their not offering a bigger harddrive isn't some nefarious plot designed to keep people from recording stuff. Ditto the use of eSATA. The original DVRs that they used (the 6416) don't have an eSATA slot. The newer ones (the 7216) do. Again, nothing nefarious going on - just Verizon working with the hardware that's available. They are going to enable eSATA. When? I have no earthly idea. But the fact that Verizon has acknowledged working on it tells me that it's going to be soon.

Finally - Moxi is a new DVR (uber-DVR ) out there. The price tag is hefty - $800. But it has a true HD guide, and no service fees. That seems to be the toy of choice among FiOS subscribers these days.


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## dcowboy7 (May 23, 2008)

rich584 said:


> And how much do you pay for those TiVos?


Amazon has at $232.


----------



## django (Feb 25, 2008)

I've had some thoughts about switching, mainly due to the lack of PBS in HD in my market (Boston area). But last week a FIOS salesman came through my area trying to push the service on to as many persons as humanly possible...needless to say his high pressure tactics did nothing to impress me and have galvanized me even more to stick with what I have now...I don't need someone to tell me what's best for me!


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## Grydlok (Mar 31, 2007)

rich584 said:


> Aw, that's not a fair comparison. The R15 was an acknowledged piece of junk. Just getting one to work was difficult. I want to hear a comparison of Hi Def DVRs.
> 
> Doesn't the size of that hard drive make you wonder? Why would they do that?
> 
> ...


I have both HD DVR's so what you want to know.

The Moto box is faster.
That's about it.

My HR20-700's and HR22-100 can store way more. Easier to set-up season pass. They do pass through.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

dcowboy7 said:


> Amazon has at $232.


Don't forget the monthly cost as well. $15 a month now isn't it?


----------



## loudo (Mar 24, 2005)

FIOS MRV DVRs, $20.00 a month. They better have good features for that price.

http://www22.verizon.com/residential/fiostv/EquipmentDetails/EquipmentDetails.htm


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

jpl said:


> I never said you were a DirecTV fan-boy.


I didn't say that anybody called me a D* shill (rather use that word than fan-boy, I hate being called "boy" in any permutation of the word). The point I was trying to make was that I am not particularly enamored with D* and would switch if switching providers made sense to me.

Please understand this: I did not enter this thread with any intention but to learn. If arguing helps the learning process, I'll happily argue. I teach at a college occasionally and I let the students argue if it's on topic and I see that the argument is beneficial. I do NOT know enough about FIOS to argue any point other than that it is offered by Verizon, and I am pretty sick and tired of being a Verizon wireless customer. I certainly don't want to get involved with another company that is building a technology by feel. It would seem logical that if Verizon can't support cell phones properly, a more complicated technology might well be beyond their ability to support properly.



> You made an assessment that Verizon would mimic DirecTV's experience on the MRV front, and not get anything done.


I don't think I did that. As of now I have a hard wire version of MRV in a couple rooms in my home and that is all I need. I really don't have much interest in MRV. Perhaps when D* finally enables it I will change my mind, but right now, I have little or no interest in it.



> Their track-record proves otherwise.


Here's Verizon's track record from my point of view (remember, I've never seen a FIOS setup). They did the landlines right, but they were in place when Ma Bell had to split up and Verizon was formed. Their cell phone support and sales force is terrible. That's just based on my experience. I haven't seen anybody raving about FIOS support.



> Yes, they are a new kid on the block, but in that short time they've advanced beyond what they initially were, and what they initially offered. They had SD MRV, now they have HD. They had SD VOD... now they have HD as well. They used to use a piece-o-crap guide s/w provided by Microsoft... they have since developed their own (which they've already enhanced significantly). They've expanded their widgets (ok, Facebook and Twitter aren't my thing, but the ability to do both from your TV is something that I can see people wanting - ditto the ability to manage your fantasy football team via your STB - all widgets that they've added)... they've added remote booking DVR functionality... they've always had picture and music streaming available (from PC to DVR), but they're adding video. They're also starting to roll out internet streaming too (YouTube, e.g.), and they're coming out with Sling-type functionality. Not exactly the track record of a company standing still.


To be honest, none of that interests me. I've got five computers in my home and each one is near a TV. I can do all that on a computer and I have no desire to watch TV on a computer. I know they are not standing still, I don't think I've said that.



> Now, why did they only offer a 160GB harddrive? Because they made the decision to go with Motorola products, and the biggest harddrive they offer is 160GB.


OK, I didn't know that. Still seems like a poor business decision. But, at least, that explains the small hard drive.



> They have a somewhat different architecture from traditional cable, so they needed a cable box that was IP addressable - so they relied on Motorola's QIP series of boxes. Was that the wisest choice? Dunno. But their not offering a bigger harddrive isn't some nefarious plot designed to keep people from recording stuff.


Did I imply that there was a "nefarious plot" to keep people from recording Hi Def? I just couldn't understand why they would put such a small hard drive in the box. Now you've explained it and now I understand.



> Ditto the use of eSATA. The original DVRs that they used (the 6416) don't have an eSATA slot. The newer ones (the 7216) do. Again, nothing nefarious going on - just Verizon working with the hardware that's available. They are going to enable eSATA. When? I have no earthly idea. But the fact that Verizon has acknowledged working on it tells me that it's going to be soon.


That doesn't answer my question. Will they mandate a particular eSATA or will the customer get to choose? I want to be able to choose.



> Finally - Moxi is a new DVR (uber-DVR ) out there. The price tag is hefty - $800. But it has a true HD guide, and no service fees. That seems to be the toy of choice among FiOS subscribers these days.


I forgot to Google Moxi again yesterday. $800? I have to check that out. If you have to add an eSATA to get decent recording capacity, I'd need 6 of them. $4800 for six Moxies? And then add the cost of eSATAs and you're beginning to get out of range of sensible people. Let me Google Moxi and see what that is. I'll be back.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

dcowboy7 said:


> Amazon has at $232.


That's not a bad price. Dual tuners? And how much a month?

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Grydlok said:


> I have both HD DVR's so what you want to know.
> 
> The Moto box is faster.
> That's about it.
> ...


So you'd prefer the HRs? The Motorola DVR is faster how?

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

loudo said:


> FIOS MRV DVRs, $20.00 a month. They better have good features for that price.
> 
> http://www22.verizon.com/residential/fiostv/EquipmentDetails/EquipmentDetails.htm


That would be $135 more than my nine HRs cost a month. Add that to my $200 average monthly bill and...that's too much money.

Rich


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## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

rich584 said:


> So you'd prefer the HRs? The Motorola DVR is faster how?
> 
> Rich


Faster interface, faster channel changing, faster DVR controls (FF, REW, Etc.). Basically, faster everything.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

jpl said:


> I never said you were a DirecTV fan-boy.


I just checked out the Moxi. Only a 300G hard drive, so on top of the $800 you'd have to factor in the costs of eSATAs.

Do you know how many DVRs FIOS allows on an account?

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Reaper said:


> Faster interface, faster channel changing, faster DVR controls (FF, REW, Etc.). Basically, faster everything.


I'm not dissatisfied with the speed of the HRs. I guess, from the posts about the slowness of the HRs, many D* customers are. I'm just happy that they've finally stabilized the things.

Rich


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

rich584 said:


> I just checked out the Moxi. Only a 300G hard drive, so on top of the $800 you'd have to factor in the costs of eSATAs.
> 
> Do you know how many DVRs FIOS allows on an account?
> 
> Rich


The term 'fan-boy' has a specific connotation - there was nothing meant by that term other than the commonly accepted definition - someone who's a shill for a company. I specifically said that I never called you that.

As for not wanting to argue - if you go back and reread some of your posts, you most definitely came across in an argumentative way (e.g. the comment which I responded to - about Verizon following DirecTV's path with MRV - that wasn't an example of just wanting to learn about FiOS).

Next, as for not caring about all the stuff that I listed in the other post (because your computer can do the same thing) - you missed the entire point of my post. YOUR comment was that of course Verizon has MRV - they're the new kids on the block so they have all the latest technology. It's much easier for a new company to implement stuff like that than an existing company. While I agree with that second part, my post pointed out all the CHANGES that Verizon undertook, much to their base architecture, despite being the new kids on the block. In other words - much of their functionality has nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that FiOS is relatively new - they have a track record of implementing changes in their architecture to support enhanced functionality. Even stuff they didn't plan on - and I'll give one small example of that last one: DLB.

When they started putting together their own guide s/w (the IMG), customers pinged them with 'you know, it would be kinda nice to see you guys implement DLB in your DVR.' These same customers were testing out the IMG s/w (they asked some customers to assess the s/w before rolling it out). Guess what Verizon implemented in the s/w before rolling it out? DLB. Is it a small thing? Yeah, it is. Was it implemented perfectly - God, no. But they responded to user requests and put something out there very quickly.

Finally to answer your question - Verizon currently supports up to 10 set top boxes - 7 of which are ip-addressable (e.g. DVRs). This is actually a router limitation, which is changing. Their new routers can support significantly more (I think up to 15 ip-addressable devices).


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

django said:


> I've had some thoughts about switching, mainly due to the lack of PBS in HD in my market (Boston area). But last week a FIOS salesman came through my area trying to push the service on to as many persons as humanly possible...needless to say his high pressure tactics did nothing to impress me and have galvanized me even more to stick with what I have now...I don't need someone to tell me what's best for me!


Cablevision just did that to me. They wander around and hit people with dishes and try to BS them into switching to cable. Gotta give the guy credit, when I told him what my present bill was (I didn't tell him how many credits I was getting) he didn't believe it. I just happened to have the bill by the front door and showed it to him. Then he told me he didn't believe I had nine DVRs. Wanted to come in and count them. This guy was way out there. And this happened at eight o'clock in the evening. I lost my temper and he left quite quickly.

Just another day in Paradise.

Rich


----------



## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

Shades228 said:


> Don't forget the monthly cost as well. $15 a month now isn't it?


Nope. 
https://www3.tivo.com/store/plans.do

https://www3.tivo.com/abouttivo/policies/tivomultiservicediscountagreement.html

The Tivo HD is now $199. If you can find one.

The Verizon DVR is $20 / month, but its savings come from the fact that you only need one and there is no upfront cost and no contract. You can use regular set top boxes for the other TVs and still get DVR functionality. It's nice if you have one main TV and only need basic DVR functionality on the other TVs.


----------



## RCY (Nov 17, 2005)

jpl said:


> When they started putting together their own guide s/w (the IMG), customers pinged them with 'you know, it would be kinda nice to see you guys implement DLB in your DVR.' These same customers were testing out the IMG s/w (they asked some customers to assess the s/w before rolling it out). Guess what Verizon implemented in the s/w before rolling it out? DLB. Is it a small thing? Yeah, it is. Was it implemented perfectly - God, no. But they responded to user requests and put something out there very quickly.


How is DLB implemented in the FIOS DVR?


----------



## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

rich584 said:


> I just checked out the Moxi. Only a 300G hard drive, so on top of the $800 you'd have to factor in the costs of eSATAs.


Incorrect. Moxi's internal hard drive is 500 GB. It supports external hard drives up to 2 TB.


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## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

rich584 said:


> That would be $135 more than my nine HRs cost a month. Add that to my $200 average monthly bill and...that's too much money.
> 
> Rich


The concept is to have 1 MR DVR and less expensive STBs (non-DVRs) everywhere else. The 160 GB hard drive makes this impracticle for many homes but that will hopefully be changing soon.

D* subscribers always seem to forget the up front leasing costs of their DVRs. With FiOS the monthly fees are higher but there are no $200 (or whatever) up front leasing costs.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

RCY said:


> How is DLB implemented in the FIOS DVR?


They've actually improved on this since rolling it out. It's implemented just with the Prev button. I can't specifically flip tuners like I can with Tivo. But if I'm watching show 1 on one tuner and show 2 on the other, if I hit the prev button it flips between the two, maintaining the buffer for each. It doesn't have the smarts that Tivo does. For example, if I'm on show 1, and instead of hitting prev to go back to show 2, I just put in the channel number directly, then both tuners are now on show 2. Tivo is smart enough to handle that situation correctly.

They have made it better, though. For example, initially you couldn't pause when flipping between shows. Now you can. Also, initially it only worked with two live TV feeds - if I was recording something, then the prev button didn't flip between the tuners. I BELIEVE it does now - but I'm not positive - I've never tested that out.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

Reaper said:


> D* subscribers always seem to forget the up front leasing costs of their DVRs. With FiOS the monthly fees are higher but there are no $200 (or whatever) up front leasing costs.


There's another side of this that people tend to gloss over. With DBS services you get locked into a contract when you get new hardware. You get a discount on your lease fee for the product because you're locked in for 2 years. That's on top of any up-front feeds for the equipment.

With cable/fios, you don't pay anything up front for your hardware, but you pay more per month to lease it. But you also don't lock into a contract based on the hardware. You get locked into a contract to get a discount on your service (e.g. triple play).

The notion that you're ONLY paying $5/month for that HD DVR with DirecTV is discounting the fact that most people pay an up-front fee for the box, AND you have a contract that results from the box.

They just have different pricing structures - that's what people should keep in mind. Is one better than the other? It really depends on your particular set-up. If you have 5 DVRs then DirecTV is (possibly) a much better deal - depends on how much you have to pay up front for each DVR. If you have 1 DVR and say 1 other STB, then FiOS is probably the better deal.


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## mluntz (Jul 13, 2006)

No Sunday Ticket, no way!

Although I'm getting tired of all the locals being added, and no new national HD!

Fios has some national HD and premium movie channels I would like to see that D* doesn't.


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## SteveHas (Feb 7, 2007)

FiOs has been here (Boston) for a few years and I have not switched, nor do I plan to
I did sign up for the awesomeness of a 20/5 FiOs internet connection, and then dumped my Verizon land line for Vonage, but D* stays
at least until Verizon buys D*
or FiOs offers NFLST
even then I'm not sure if I would ever leave D*
I'm pretty happy right now


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## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

jpl said:


> As for not wanting to argue - if you go back and reread some of your posts, you most definitely came across in an argumentative way (e.g. the comment which I responded to - about Verizon following DirecTV's path with MRV - that wasn't an example of just wanting to learn about FiOS).


Thanks for calling Rich on this jpl. Here's his greatest hits from when he joined the thread:

"This is my interest in FIOS diminishing."

"Another great business decision by Verizon." (Sarcasm)

"The lowest bidder always does the crappiest job."

"My God, can't you just imagine going thru late '06 thru early '07 all over again with a new provider who's trying to figure out how to do multiple things and getting nothing done?"

And he followed these up with:

"I was just asking questions about something that I knew nothing about."

No Rich, you weren't asking questions. You were making sweeping statements about a service that you admittedly knew nothing about. And then in your later posts you're all about the "I never said that". Be responsible for your posts, or be quiet.


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## RCY (Nov 17, 2005)

jpl said:


> They've actually improved on this since rolling it out. It's implemented just with the Prev button. I can't specifically flip tuners like I can with Tivo. But if I'm watching show 1 on one tuner and show 2 on the other, if I hit the prev button it flips between the two, maintaining the buffer for each. It doesn't have the smarts that Tivo does. For example, if I'm on show 1, and instead of hitting prev to go back to show 2, I just put in the channel number directly, then both tuners are now on show 2. Tivo is smart enough to handle that situation correctly.
> 
> They have made it better, though. For example, initially you couldn't pause when flipping between shows. Now you can. Also, initially it only worked with two live TV feeds - if I was recording something, then the prev button didn't flip between the tuners. I BELIEVE it does now - but I'm not positive - I've never tested that out.


Thanks for the reply. How long are the buffers?


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

RCY said:


> Thanks for the reply. How long are the buffers?


I think they're spec'd to 60 minutes each, but I've seen them actually hold more than that.


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## William1 (May 11, 2009)

For me, FIOS offers some good things.
Stabile signal Vs Rain Fade
No dish on the roof to upgrade every six years
Faster Internet
Possibility of bundling services to save money.

That all said, DirecTV has been reasonbly good to me. Yes, I always have to call a gazillion times to get a issue worked out. But, because I have to call so much, they tend to give me what I wanted for free (when had they made the right work order or service change request, I would of happily paid the fees). I wanted a SWM-8, the local install company did not stock them but told me they'd be happy to get me one, and thy did.

I am not a sports person. I only like F1, Endurance and sports car racing. No NFL, No Baseball so none of those offereings mean anything to me.

The costs of equipment do matter somewhat. I was an early adopter of HDTV, I had to buy my own IRD, cost about $600.00, failed after two years and cost $200.00 for a swap out, that one failed about a year later. DirecTV stepped up and replaced it with an HR20 at N/C. Since then, every reciever has been replaced at N/C to me (no protection plan here, I'll align the dish and deal with the wiring on my own, no problem). I now have a HD DVR HR-22 and a reg HD IRD, an H-22.

However.... where I live, Sprint is the only game in town. It is a very rural area. It'l be a long time before we get fiber. Heck, I am a mile from the paved road! I am lucky to have DSL.


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## w3syt (Feb 17, 2006)

Those Fios folks are really after me. I already have phone & router on Fios @ 69.99. Now they want to add TV for 6 months @ same 69.99 and 99.99 for 6 more. Of course this is + HD, DVRs, etc.

Wonder if they have second addresses for 2 DVRs in same cabinet ?


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

w3syt said:


> Wonder if they have second addresses for 2 DVRs in same cabinet ?


Unfortunately, no, they don't.


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## w3syt (Feb 17, 2006)

Thanks, that would be pretty useless here.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

w3syt said:


> Thanks, that would be pretty useless here.


Yeah, that's been a sticking point for many. Someone came up with a pretty creative solution, actually. He has two DVRs hooked to the same TV. He keeps one powered off, and one powered on all the time. Then if he wants to switch DVRs, he hits the power button the remote, and the one that was off turns on and the one that was on turns off. He hit a snag recently, though.

Verizon was having issues with their STBs not always turning on correctly. This would hit me from time to time. I pick up the remote, hit power, and my TV goes on, but my STB doesn't. Now I have to get up and turn on the power manually. To get around that issue they programmed in a standby mode for the STBs with the latest s/w release. Now if your TV is on but your STB isn't, you get a message on your TV to the effect 'Your Set Top Box is off. Hit 'menu' to start up your set top box.' Or something like that. Menu now will power on the box. Which is what gives this guy issues. If the box is off and you hit menu, it powers on. If the box is on and you hit menu, you get the menu.

All that being said, this is something that they should definitely address - it's not an issue for me, but it is for many out there.


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## dhaakenson (Jan 14, 2007)

Just adding my 1 cent (hey, it's a recession/depression):

I was one of the original DirecTv test market customers back in 1994. Out of the box, DTV offered great customer service, great quality of product, superior picture quality. For more than a decade, I was as loyal and in love with DTV as anyone could be with a product/service. Over the years, I got many of my friends and family to sign up as well.

But, after 13 years, I gradually became disenchanted after I converted to HD. DTV had switched to leasing its receivers (which I disliked, for too many reasons to state here), and had dumped TiVo (I really liked TiVo). Still, I plowed ahead and got an HR20, then added an HR21. What followed, for me, was a year of endless software bugs and updates that left me dissatisfied. While there were many aspects of DTV's DVR software interface that I liked better than TiVo's, I just wanted to be able to record a clear television signal and play it back at my leisure, without an endless series of audio dropouts, video issues, lost recordings, etc. DTV sent out replacement receivers, a couple technicians to review my setup, but in the end, quality issues seemed to shift with each software update.

When Verizon dug FiOS lines to my house last summer, I decided DTV had dropped the ball enough for me to consider something else. So I had FiOS installed and did a 3 week comparison of FiOS and DTV. I know, it's not a valid comparison, as there are many potential failure points that can affect or adversely impact picture quality. I'm not offering my results as conclusive of anything, other than who won at my house and who is now getting my monthly $$$.

I bought two TiVo HD units, Verizon installed the cable cards, and I started my comparison. I recorded the same shows on the FiOS TiVos, HR20 and HR21. 

Immediately, the picture quality on FiOS was noticeably superior to that of DTV, on every recording, every channel. As my wife said, "It feels like we're watching high definition for the first time." Even the Dolby Digital audio seemed fuller, with greater separation as well, though perhaps it was my imagination. Not sure.

What really struck me was the black areas of the televised image. My DTV signal looked blotchy and pixelized in dark areas, whereas FiOS looked beautiful. The FiOS image seemed three dimensional, very film like. No distortion at all. Just pure black, pure greys, like a high quality photograph.

After about 3 weeks of testing, I'd seen enough. Superior picture, zero audio/video glitches, no rain fade (as I live in Seattle) with FiOS. After 14.5 years with DTV, I paid to end my lease and left.

I've now had FiOS for 9 months and love it. The picture is astounding. No regrets. For me, FiOS is delivering the experience I used to get from DTV before it stumbled.

Downside: TiVo's software development is stagnant. The software is slow and obtuse. It looks like they've invested too much time into integrating more and more intrusive advertising and search elements, and less on improving the speed and intuitiveness of the overall interface. (But it DOES record and play back a television signal perfectly, which is what I care about). Even worse, Verizon has to have the crappiest customer service I've ever encountered. It took me 4 tries to even reach Verizon to place my order for the initial FiOS install. I didn't want to use the website, as it didn't allow me to order cable cards for use with TiVos, so I had to do it via phone. I can't express the rage felt at the number of times I was transferred and disconnected, then later told to call another number (which no longer was in service). Eventually, after days of false starts, I was connected with someone who seemed to know what he was doing, but he told me Verizon didn't offer cable cards and that I had to use Verizon's DVR. I told him the FCC required them to make cable cards available. Suddenly, he said, "oh, CABLE CARDS. yes, we have cable cards". Yeah, right. Even the install was a struggle, as the installer had never done a TiVo install. Fortunately, there are numerous install instructions on the internet, which I printed and he followed (to great success).

In the end, what matters to me is the end product. Like water, I want to be able to turn on the tap and be presented with a consistent, clear experience. The uncompressed picture quality of FiOS has made my 1080p LCD and 1080i plasma (and more importantly, the wife) very happy. I'm glad I switched. But, if the FiOS experience ever falters, I'll be back.


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## BKC (Dec 12, 2007)

Great post, thanks. 



dhaakenson said:


> Just adding my 1 cent (hey, it's a recession/depression):
> 
> I was one of the original DirecTv test market customers back in 1994. Out of the box, DTV offered great customer service, great quality of product, superior picture quality. For more than a decade, I was as loyal and in love with DTV as anyone could be with a product/service. Over the years, I got many of my friends and family to sign up as well.
> 
> ...


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

You poor boy 
I wish they where after me, I would surrender in a second!
It's not that I don't like Directv but I really only care about 3 things.

Picture Quality : Winner FIOS
More HD Channels: Winner FIOS
Reliability: Winner FIOS

All the other glitz is nice but those three items are the must haves.



w3syt said:


> Those Fios folks are really after me. I already have phone & router on Fios @ 69.99. Now they want to add TV for 6 months @ same 69.99 and 99.99 for 6 more. Of course this is + HD, DVRs, etc.
> 
> Wonder if they have second addresses for 2 DVRs in same cabinet ?


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

Excellent Post, it pretty much sums up my thinking too.

I just want the best picture on the most reliable DVR system. I believe that most of the "I would never leave Directv" crowd would leave in a Flash if they did a side by side comparison of the picture quality. I was lucky enough to get an hour or so to compare an HR23 with FIOS but the truth is it took only 3 seconds to know FIOS was way better.

Like you I have also been with Directv from day one, I loved the service up until these buggy HR2x receivers came out, now after 2 years of Bug testing I feel pretty numb to missed recordings and trapped by endless firmware updates. It hell because I cant get FIOS and E* to me seems like a step backwards so it D* for me till FIOS comes a knockin.



dhaakenson said:


> Just adding my 1 cent (hey, it's a recession/depression):
> 
> I was one of the original DirecTv test market customers back in 1994. Out of the box, DTV offered great customer service, great quality of product, superior picture quality. For more than a decade, I was as loyal and in love with DTV as anyone could be with a product/service. Over the years, I got many of my friends and family to sign up as well.
> 
> ...


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## dcowboy7 (May 23, 2008)

dreadlk said:


> It's not that I don't like Directv but I really only care about 3 things.
> 
> Picture Quality : Winner FIOS
> More HD Channels: Winner FIOS
> ...


I care about 1 thing:

Who has Sunday Ticket: Winner DirecTV

All the other glitz is nice but that item is a must have.


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## Clark143 (Mar 18, 2007)

Verizon announced they are selling their home service to Frontier. I knew they were never gonna do anything here anyway in North Carolina.

Oh well.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

dhaakenson said:


> Just adding my 1 cent (hey, it's a recession/depression):
> 
> I was one of the original DirecTv test market customers back in 1994. Out of the box, DTV offered great customer service, great quality of product, superior picture quality. For more than a decade, I was as loyal and in love with DTV as anyone could be with a product/service. Over the years, I got many of my friends and family to sign up as well.
> 
> ...


I agree with other posters - great post. Unfortunately, you won't have FiOS (at least under Verizon) for all that much longer. Someone else mentioned it, but Verizon is selling off a good chunk of their existing system to Frontier. That's mostly their copper stuff, but also includes FiOS service in IN, OR, and WA. No word yet on what that means to existing FiOS customers in those areas - unfortunately for you guys, the FiOS footprint in those three markets is tiny. Probably why they're doing it. Frontier has agreed to continue build out of fiber in those markets per the franchise agreements that Verizon signed. But there is no word yet on whether they continue offering FiOS TV service over those lines.


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## RCY (Nov 17, 2005)

dhaakenson said:


> Just adding my 1 cent (hey, it's a recession/depression):
> 
> I was one of the original DirecTv test market customers back in 1994. Out of the box, DTV offered great customer service, great quality of product, superior picture quality. For more than a decade, I was as loyal and in love with DTV as anyone could be with a product/service. Over the years, I got many of my friends and family to sign up as well.
> 
> ...


Great post. Thanks for laying out the pros and cons.


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## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

jpl said:


> I agree with other posters - great post. Unfortunately, you won't have FiOS (at least under Verizon) for all that much longer. Someone else mentioned it, but Verizon is selling off a good chunk of their existing system to Frontier. That's mostly their copper stuff, but also includes FiOS service in IN, OR, and WA. No word yet on what that means to existing FiOS customers in those areas - unfortunately for you guys, the FiOS footprint in those three markets is tiny. Probably why they're doing it. Frontier has agreed to continue build out of fiber in those markets per the franchise agreements that Verizon signed. But there is no word yet on whether they continue offering FiOS TV service over those lines.


Wow, I live in the Seattle, WA area and hadn't heard this. I've been a FiOS TV subscriber for a little over 4 months now and love it. I would hate to lose it.

Edit: Here's some info from a Seattle Times article:

"The deal continues Verizon's strategy of focusing on its core areas, where it is upgrading its phone lines to fiber optics, enabling it to offer TV service and faster Internet access.

"Frontier will be taking over 110,000 subscribers to Verizon's FiOS fiber-optic Internet service and 69,000 TV customers. Wilderotter said Frontier will continue to build out FiOS in areas where Verizon has started, to satisfy local TV franchise agreements."

That reads to me as if the FiOS TV and Internet services will continue in these areas. There are a lot of unknowns though - pricing, equipment, etc.

Source: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ht...2009217129_webfrontier13.html?syndication=rss


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## Amerikes (May 18, 2006)

No, I just added an HR22 DVR with AM21.... Two more years. DirecTV is doing fine, and will be doing better once D12 is launched. Be happy...

And of course, in this area, it could be 10 years or more before FIOS would be here.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

Not sure how D12 is going to make things better, Directv has plenty of extra Transponder space right now! I have no idea why they have not added more national HD channels but it's not because of D12



Amerikes said:


> No, I just added an HR22 DVR with AM21.... Two more years. DirecTV is doing fine, and will be doing better once D12 is launched. Be happy...
> 
> And of course, in this area, it could be 10 years or more before FIOS would be here.


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## dcowboy7 (May 23, 2008)

dreadlk said:


> Not sure how D12 is going to make things better, Directv has plenty of extra Transponder space right now! I have no idea why they have not added more national HD channels but it's not because of D12


But we dont know what directv considers full capacity:

Per sixtos post if i remember correctly out of 140 "spots" between the 2 sats there are really only 8 totally free "spots" left & do they really want to drag that # any closer to 0 ?


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## nevets14 (Mar 31, 2008)

ciurca said:


> I only ask this because the guy who installed my system earlier this month talked about it then. He wants to work as a FIOS installer and wants FIOS TV bad.
> 
> Personally, I am blown away by the whole Direct TV experience compared to my old HD DVR service with Comcast.
> 
> Anyone here considering?


To answer this question in two words... HELL YES
Answered to more then two words
I would switch my time crapner cable internet to fios internet in a heartbeat, but I would not switch to FIOS tv from Directv.


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## Amerikes (May 18, 2006)

dreadlk said:


> Not sure how D12 is going to make things better, Directv has plenty of extra Transponder space right now! I have no idea why they have not added more national HD channels but it's not because of D12


I guess I should have said, that I'm happy enough that I really see no reason to change to dish, since FIOS is definitely not in my future. Yeah, we haven't even gotten our locals from Directv at this point. I believe that we were on the list some time back...... I have heard later this year, but I've heard that about our locals, and some of the HD channels. I would have to look it up to be accurate, but it is what it is.


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## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

dcowboy7 said:


> But we dont know what directv considers full capacity:
> 
> Per sixtos post if i remember correctly out of 140 "spots" between the 2 sats there are really only 8 totally free "spots" left & do they really want to drag that # any closer to 0 ?


Why do they need so many HD pay per view channels? If their video on demand service was better they wouldn't need ANY - that's what FiOS does.

D* could free up a lot of channels for true national HD content by paring down the number of HD pay per view channels.

In fact, it was the addition of all those new HD pay per view channels rather than other available HD channels that really caused me to start looking for another provider.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Reaper said:


> Why do they need so many HD pay per view channels? If their video on demand service was better they wouldn't need ANY - that's what FiOS does.


With FiOS, being network connected is a pre-requisite to having TV service, so they can deliver all their PPV via VOD, with guaranteed performance because they control the network pipe from start to finish.

With DirecTV, the vast majority of potential PPV customers are not networked. Even if they were, with some subscribers without DVR's, they still wouldn't be able to watch VOD titles delivered via a network infrastructure that was not under DirecTV's control from end-to-end. /steve


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## dhaakenson (Jan 14, 2007)

jpl said:


> I agree with other posters - great post. Unfortunately, you won't have FiOS (at least under Verizon) for all that much longer. Someone else mentioned it, but Verizon is selling off a good chunk of their existing system to Frontier. That's mostly their copper stuff, but also includes FiOS service in IN, OR, and WA. No word yet on what that means to existing FiOS customers in those areas - unfortunately for you guys, the FiOS footprint in those three markets is tiny. Probably why they're doing it. Frontier has agreed to continue build out of fiber in those markets per the franchise agreements that Verizon signed. But there is no word yet on whether they continue offering FiOS TV service over those lines.


Egad. Thanks for the info. This is disturbing. I guess I may be back with DTV quicker than I thought. From what Frontier says, they may or may not continue with "FiOS or FiOS-like services" after the 9 to 12 month time it takes for the deal to be approved. Well, crap. I'm glad I left the DTV dish on top of my house!


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## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

dhaakenson said:


> Egad. Thanks for the info. This is disturbing. I guess I may be back with DTV quicker than I thought. From what Frontier says, they may or may not continue with "FiOS or FiOS-like services" after the 9 to 12 month time it takes for the deal to be approved. Well, crap. I'm glad I left the DTV dish on top of my house!


I went one step further, I still have my D* HR2* (for NFL ST)! It's innactive right now but I can reactivate it anytime.

I am so blue.


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

I would right away


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## UTVLamented (Oct 18, 2006)

Verizon's box fees and phone taxes negate much of their price advantage on the triple play deal. Their DVR's don't have near the capacity of Directv's boxes. They also don't have the level of HD sports. Because of these reasons, I won't switch. I do love their Internet service, though.


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## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

scottchez said:


> I would right away


Why? So I could have less HD, lower quality HD, unwatchable SD, and pay more? Thanks, but I think I'll wait.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

UTVLamented said:


> Verizon's box fees and phone taxes negate much of their price advantage on the triple play deal. Their DVR's don't have near the capacity of Directv's boxes. They also don't have the level of HD sports. Because of these reasons, I won't switch. I do love their Internet service, though.


Their internet service is so robust. I "only" have 10/2 FiOS, but when I did a sp_eakeasy.net/speedtest_ just this morning from NY, I got over 10Mbps checking servers in NY, D.C., Chicago and San Francisco, and I was over 9Mbps checking Atlanta and L.A.

Upload was over 1.8 across the board. That's not too bad! /steve


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## seern (Jan 13, 2007)

Reaper said:


> Why? So I could have less HD, lower quality HD, unwatchable SD, and pay more? Thanks, but I think I'll wait.


The FiOS customers that I have seen here in Richmond, VA area, have the same quality at all levels as D*, plus no rain fade. Also their latest channel listing here includes just as many national HD feeds as D* has now. As I have posted over on the Brrrrriiiiip thread, if they don't get that annoying issue fixed, I am gone.


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## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

seern said:


> The FiOS customers that I have seen here in Richmond, VA area, have the same quality at all levels as D*, plus no rain fade. Also their latest channel listing here includes just as many national HD feeds as D* has now. As I have posted over on the Brrrrriiiiip thread, if they don't get that annoying issue fixed, I am gone.


Sorry if you misunderstood me; I have FiOS and was asking the rhetorical question about why would I switch back to D*.


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## w3syt (Feb 17, 2006)

Steve said:


> With FiOS, being network connected is a pre-requisite to having TV service, so they can deliver all their PPV via VOD, with guaranteed performance because they control the network pipe from start to finish.
> 
> With DirecTV, the vast majority of potential PPV customers are not networked. Even if they were, with some subscribers without DVR's, they still wouldn't be able to watch VOD titles delivered via a network infrastructure that was not under DirecTV's control from end-to-end. /steve


My Directv VODs come over my FIOS router. Look just like stuff off the dish. Not sure how happy this makes Verizon


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

w3syt said:


> My Directv VODs come over my FIOS router. Look just like stuff off the dish. Not sure how happy this makes Verizon


Also a FiOS/D* customer here... and a FiOS/Vonage customer as well! I'm pretty sure Verizon is happy getting at least _one_ piece of my "triple-play". :lol: /steve


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## Artwood (May 30, 2006)

If DirecTV bought FIOS or merged with them would the FCC allow it?


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

Artwood said:


> If DirecTV bought FIOS or merged with them would the FCC allow it?


Sure. Why wouldn't they? FiOS is considered cable - there isn't a lack of cable providers out there. The reason they stopped the DirecTV / Dish merger several years ago was because that would have created a single large DBS company, which the FTC considers a monopoly. FiOS, though, like I said is considered cable - there's nothing monopolistic about the two companies merging. I don't think it'll happen - but I don't believe it would be stopped if it did.


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## ziggy29 (Nov 18, 2004)

jpl said:


> Sure. Why wouldn't they? FiOS is considered cable - there isn't a lack of cable providers out there. The reason they stopped the DirecTV / Dish merger several years ago was because that would have created a single large DBS company, which the FTC considers a monopoly.


Didn't stop them from allowing Sirius and XM to merge. Gotta love consistency.


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## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

jpl said:


> FiOS is considered cable


I just threw up a little in my mouth. :sure:


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## ajc68 (Jan 23, 2008)

ziggy29 said:


> Didn't stop them from allowing Sirius and XM to merge. Gotta love consistency.


Well, it's been speculated that Dish and D* would be allowed to merge now, since the technological landscape has changed dramatically since they attempted to merge years ago. But who knows?


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

ziggy29 said:


> Didn't stop them from allowing Sirius and XM to merge. Gotta love consistency.


There are different reasons behind the two deals. Not saying I agree, but there are distinctions. These are the two main ones that I've heard. First, the FCC considers DBS as separate from cable. So, yes, having DirecTV and Dish merge, per their definition, would create a monopoly. But didn't the XM/Sirius merger do the same thing?

Yeah it did, but again, there are a couple distinctions. First (from what I understand) is an issue of availability. To get either Dish or DirecTV you need a pretty specific line of sight. There are customers who could be conceivably left out in the cold if the two merged, because both services aren't available to every person in the US due to geography. That's not as much of an issue with satellite radio. Again, not sure I fully understand, or agree, with the reasoning, but that's one reason I've heard for allowing the XM/Sirius merger to go through.

Second, sometimes monopolies are inevitable. I've used this example before, but a number of years ago the FTC allowed the merger of the last two US-based commercial airframe manufacturers - Boeing and MD. Why? Because MD was going out of business. One way or the other there was only going to be a single airframe manufacturer. So the FTC decided that allowing the merger was the less destructive of the two options. From what I gather, similar reasoning went into the XM/Sirius merger. I don't think the market was able to sustain both companies profitably.

I can see the FTC allowing a DirecTV/Dish merger per the second item. Increased competition from services like FiOS, U-Verse, and IP, as well as the big push to bundling services, have created a similar situation in the DBS world. Although it could be argued that, with the explosive growth DirecTV has enjoyed over the last few quarters, that's not really true. I look at Dish - and they've had a rocky few quarters. In this economic climate, it really wouldn't shock me if they went belly up in the next couple years. Again, the argument could be made that, at the end of the day there's only going to be one DBS provider.

As for the comment about FiOS being considered cable - yeah, I know... it makes me a little light-headed too . But per the FCC, they are cable. They have the same requirements that traditional cable does - need to procure franchise agreements... and all the FCC regs that cover cable also cover FiOS. From a legal perspective, they're a cable company.


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## RCY (Nov 17, 2005)

Artwood said:


> If DirecTV bought FIOS or merged with them would the FCC allow it?


I don't see why not.

Maybe then, the FCC would make D* provide cablecards for their sat service too....

Neither will happen.


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## Artwood (May 30, 2006)

Is there any way that DirecTV could buy FIOS and dissolve in to oblivion--any legal way that they could make sure that it would fail?


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

jpl said:


> There are different reasons behind the two deals. Not saying I agree, but there are distinctions. These are the two main ones that I've heard. First, the FCC considers DBS as separate from cable. So, yes, having DirecTV and Dish merge, per their definition, would create a monopoly. But didn't the XM/Sirius merger do the same thing?
> 
> Yeah it did, but again, there are a couple distinctions. First (from what I understand) is an issue of availability. To get either Dish or DirecTV you need a pretty specific line of sight. There are customers who could be conceivably left out in the cold if the two merged, because both services aren't available to every person in the US due to geography. That's not as much of an issue with satellite radio. Again, not sure I fully understand, or agree, with the reasoning, but that's one reason I've heard for allowing the XM/Sirius merger to go through.
> 
> ...


Without rehashing this too much here's the run down on this topic.

XM/Sirius proved that neither company would generate a profit and therefor competition was killing them not helping them.

DirecTV/Dish make a profit so the XM/Sirius comparison stops at "They have satellites and customers".

The largest reason that the FCC denied the merger was due to rural areas who only have 3 choices and some that only have 2. OTA, DirecTV, Dish. This would remove any option for these customers as the NRTC has failed in most areas.

So you were close on most of it but just wanted to clarify it a little more.

So to get back on topic.

I would take the internet part of FIOS in a heartbeat but not the other services.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

Artwood said:


> Is there any way that DirecTV could buy FIOS and dissolve in to oblivion--any legal way that they could make sure that it would fail?


Sounds similar to something I heard many years ago - Ted Nugent wanted to buy up Muzak... so he could destroy it. The question is - why would you want that? Could they? I guess... if DirecTV had the money to buy out Verizon and take over the network (considering Verizon is going to spend $23Billion just to roll out the initial footprint of FiOS, I think this is probably a tad unlikely). But again, why would you want that? The best thing for DirecTV, and its customers, is to have stiff competition.

I've posted elsewhere that, even though I'm a FiOS customer, I was giddy when DirecTV did their big HD push back in 2007. Why? Because I knew that would mean more HD for me - there was no way that Verizon was going to sit back and let their big, expensive investment get rolled. I knew it was just a matter of time (less than a year, in fact) before they caught up.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

Shades228 said:


> Without rehashing this too much here's the run down on this topic.
> 
> XM/Sirius proved that neither company would generate a profit and therefor competition was killing them not helping them.
> 
> ...


Your first point is the same as mine - that the market couldn't sustain two separate satellite radio providers. As for the second point - I'm only repeating what I'd heard. That it wasn't just an issue of rural providers only having DirecTV and Dish as possible pay TV providers. But because some rural customers could ONLY get one of the two due to line of sight issues. Again, that's what I heard.


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## NickD (Apr 5, 2007)

FIOS is finally available in my neighborhood and I am still undecided on what to do. I am definitely going to switch for the net and phone but not sure about tv. The limited storage is a major issue, we have a ton of stuff recorded just for the kids let alone what we record. We have a TB drive that on,y has about 9% left right now. Now some can be deleted due to dups but most we are just behind on our seasons. 

I just printed out a channel list and need to do a real comparison to see if they have more of what we would want. From briefly looking it looks like there are none of the kids stations in HD, this is very disappointing. I am thinking of having it installed and then do a side by side comparison to see which is better. Time to also research the TIVO and Moxie and see what they offer.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

NickD said:


> FIOS is finally available in my neighborhood and I am still undecided on what to do. I am definitely going to switch for the net and phone but not sure about tv. The limited storage is a major issue, we have a ton of stuff recorded just for the kids let alone what we record. We have a TB drive that on,y has about 9% left right now. Now some can be deleted due to dups but most we are just behind on our seasons.
> 
> I just printed out a channel list and need to do a real comparison to see if they have more of what we would want. From briefly looking it looks like there are none of the kids stations in HD, this is very disappointing. I am thinking of having it installed and then do a side by side comparison to see which is better. Time to also research the TIVO and Moxie and see what they offer.


I'm very happy with FiOS internet, Vonage phone and D* TV. Vonage has been rock solid riding on FiOS.

I pay $42 for 10/2 internet, $25 for Vonage, including taxes (I prepay each year), and $102 for D* with 6-DVR's, 1-H21 and the protection plan. So $169 Triple Play, with 7 displays and 6 DVR's.


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## Brennok (Dec 23, 2005)

NickD said:


> FIOS is finally available in my neighborhood and I am still undecided on what to do. I am definitely going to switch for the net and phone but not sure about tv. The limited storage is a major issue, we have a ton of stuff recorded just for the kids let alone what we record. We have a TB drive that on,y has about 9% left right now. Now some can be deleted due to dups but most we are just behind on our seasons.
> 
> I just printed out a channel list and need to do a real comparison to see if they have more of what we would want. From briefly looking it looks like there are none of the kids stations in HD, this is very disappointing. I am thinking of having it installed and then do a side by side comparison to see which is better. Time to also research the TIVO and Moxie and see what they offer.


I think I have finally decided to make the switch to Fios. I was able to find some of the Tivo HDs on clearance at Sears for 148.97 which is what I figure I would be paying around for the new Directivos. Also with not knowing what the new Directivo will and won't have I figure now is a good a time as any. Worst case I may keep one Directivo running so I can keep my current package which is no longer available and also still keep my E/W feeds for NBC and ABC.


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## rebkell (Sep 9, 2006)

After this week, I would jump to FIOS in a heartbeat, I'm sick of rain fade, I've lost signal every day for at least the last 7 days. Had maybe one or two brief outages all winter, now that it's getting warm weather and we have constant rain and thunderstorms, it seems to be a constant thing. 

I don't care about any of the sports packages, the ones I do care about I could get with FIOS anyway. HD is great, but the rain fade during the summer months is just too irritating and it's like an early warning system, I know it's gonna rain probably 10 or 15 minutes before it ever starts. I'm even losing the SD channels and the signals on those are in high 90's and several at 100.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

rebkell said:


> After this week, I would jump to FIOS in a heartbeat, I'm sick of rain fade, I've lost signal every day for at least the last 7 days. Had maybe one or two brief outages all winter, now that it's getting warm weather and we have constant rain and thunderstorms, it seems to be a constant thing.
> 
> I don't care about any of the sports packages, the ones I do care about I could get with FIOS anyway. HD is great, but the rain fade during the summer months is just too irritating and it's like an early warning system, I know it's gonna rain probably 10 or 15 minutes before it ever starts. I'm even losing the SD channels and the signals on those are in high 90's and several at 100.


We had a lot of rain in the NY area about 3 weeks ago. I had a lot of recording issues as a result and had DirecTV come out to see what was up. Turns out my Dish was pointed correctly, but the LNB arm wasn't mounted with the correct screws, so as a result, it wasn't as rigid as it should be. So even though I was getting acceptable signal strength in good weather, once there was a little wind, the dish would apparently start wobbling a quarter of an inch or more the wrong way. According to the tech, some of my "rain fade" issues were really "wind fade" issues.

He wound up replacing my dish with a new one with a triple-LNB, instead of the 5-LNB I had, because I no longer needed 110 and 119. I get all mid to high 90's where I need them now and recordings have been great, so far!

Not saying this is the case with your install, but when you said high 90's and rain fade, it sounded a bit like my situation. /steve


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## rebkell (Sep 9, 2006)

Steve said:


> We had a lot of rain in the NY area about 3 weeks ago. I had a lot of recording issues as a result and had DirecTV come out to see what was up. Turns out my Dish was pointed correctly, but the LNB arm wasn't mounted with the correct screws, so as a result, it wasn't as rigid as it should be. So even though I was getting acceptable signal strength in good weather, once there was a little wind, the dish would apparently start wobbling a quarter of an inch or more the wrong way. According to the tech, some of my "rain fade" issues were really "wind fade" issues.
> 
> He wound up replacing my dish with a new one with a triple-LNB, instead of the 5-LNB I had, because I no longer needed 110 and 119. I get all mid to high 90's where I need them now and recordings have been great, so far!
> 
> Not saying this is the case with your install, but when you said high 90's and rain fade, it sounded a bit like my situation. /steve


I guess it's possible, but today it was a beautiful day, no wind, just some heavy clouds, and when it finally started raining I was back in business within 3 to 5 minutes. I don't know what it is, but it's definitely a lot worse when it approaches warm weather, during the winter months it doesn't seem to matter how bad the weather, I only suffer brief outages, but warm weather and it's a major pain. I may try to schedule a tweak anyway, I'll probably never see FIOS around here and the local Comcast has a pitiful HD selection.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

rebkell said:


> I guess it's possible, but today it was a beautiful day, no wind, just some heavy clouds, and when it finally started raining I was back in business within 3 to 5 minutes. I don't know what it is, but it's definitely a lot worse when it approaches warm weather, during the winter months it doesn't seem to matter how bad the weather, I only suffer brief outages, but warm weather and it's a major pain. I may try to schedule a tweak anyway, I'll probably never see FIOS around here and the local Comcast has a pitiful HD selection.


Maybe you can find out before the tech gets there if you still need a 5 LNB (assuming that's what you now have). They can keep the dish and just swap the LNB assembly. I could be wrong, but I would think just tweaking for 99-101-103 can be done more accurately if you don't have to worry about 110-119 as well. Just a thought. /steve


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## dcowboy7 (May 23, 2008)

No - fios doesnt have sunday ticket.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

There's nothing wrong with this old thread, but it has gotten a bit long, so let's retire it and start up again here:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=162232


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