# My Deca unit caught on FIRE!



## BubblePuppy

Missy and I hadn't been home more than ten minutes when she said she smelled something burning. She was standing by the tv. I walked over and could smell something but the smell was very slight. I went back to the couch, looking in the tv stand I saw flames coming up from the Deca unit. Long story short I got the flame out and ever thing unplugged. 
I'm not going to get into the call into Directv right now but it was a bit frustrating. 
This was the first they had heard of this happening. Well that was a relief. 
All I can say is I'm glad Missy and I didn't linger over dinner or who knows what we would have come home to.


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## sigma1914

That's really scarey and freaks me out. I have a real fear of things catching fire, especially electronics.

Glad you guys are safe and your home is ok.


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## Sixto

I never did like dongles and extra external stuff. Glad it worked out.


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## Alebob911

Glad to hear things worked out for the best! Did Directv asked to send it to them?? I have 3 currently in use and like sigma I'm always concerned about electrical fires.


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## Davenlr

Looks like the coax center shorted to the shield and started the fire. Im going to inspect all my coax pigtails tonight for damage or harsh bends. 

Thanks for the heads up and glad it all worked out for you.


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## Stuart Sweet

Eek! That's really scary.


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## Steve

Thank goodness you guys got back when you did!

I use one of those + a power inserter as my CCK and it's sitting up in the attic, which gets hot as heck in the summertime. After reading about your experience, I think I'm going to retire it and use the HR34 as my DECA to LAN bridge going forward.


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## Laxguy

Wow, glad you saved it from being worse!

Probably a good idea to not let any such gear hang out where air circulation is limited or it is in contact with fabric, carpet or anything flammable.


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## TXD16

As a very long-time pet owner, I'd suggest you ask the dog (assuming that's not you in the avatar) what he/she has been up to.


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## Mike_TV

zkc16 said:


> As a very long-time pet owner, I'd suggest you ask the dog (assuming that's not you in the avatar) what he/she has been up to.


Well the dog's name is Smoke... :eek2:


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## jcrandall

I'm sorry we nearly burned your house down, I can offer you $10 off for the next 6 months, would that resolve your concern?


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## dennisj00

Go buy some lottery tickets today! Although you may have used up your luck!!

Seriously, glad nothing was harmed other than the DECA.


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## hdtvfan0001

WOW - glad to hear the situation didn't get escalated to something worse.

This is the first I've heard a DECA unit fry from normal installed use....so perhaps you had the "bad fortune" to have a defective one.

I learned a long time ago when many thousands or more of any electronics are manufactured...there's going to be a bad one now and then. I know someone who had a 1-year-old Yamaha AVR "burn up" inside about 18 months ago.

Most important - its good to hear things are OK there now for you and your spouse.


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## BubblePuppy

In hindsight (of course) there were a couple of warning signs that something was going on.
First, when I would turn on the living room tv there would be a notice that there wasn't a connection to the satellite, but that would go away within a few seconds. I never put the HR20-700 in standby. I thought that was a little weird.
The second warning started Thursday night. we were in the living room watching a movie that was recorded on the bedroom HR23-700. The movie disappeared and a notice popped up indicating that the home network connection was lost. I had to run the network setup on both dvrs to get it back. This happened several more times that evening. It continued Friday morning. I was thinking that since I have the protection plan I would call Directv and schedule a service call. We went to work, came back after, watched a bit of tv and then went out to dinner. It was just ten minutes after we got home and turned on the tv when Missy was walking by the tv when she said she smelled something burning. The rest is explained in the first post.
Now I don't know if the deca would have caught fire without the tv being on or not. But caught fire it did. 
A new deca is being sent (the black one), I took the white one from the bedroom dvr and connected to the living room unit. So far no more fires. ;-) 

As for as my avatar, that is a picture of my constant companion and canine soul-mate of 15 years Smoke (Cossack's Smoke-In-The-Aire). It was taken when we were moving to Florida, crossing the Georgia/Florida state lines. Sadly two years ago he crossed over the Rainbow Bridge. I still miss him very much.

"I'm sorry we nearly burned your house down, I can offer you $10 off for the next 6 months,....." Hmmm....not sure if that is a joke or not but it is better than the response from the first csr I talked to, which was...."What do you want me to do about it?". I won't repeat my response.

I'm thinking about calling Directv and seeing (under the protection plan) if they will replace the two dvrs with the HR24 with the built in deca. I don't have a lot of trust in those external ones anymore.


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## veryoldschool

I keep looking at the photo.
I see the coax is what overheated and caught fire in the end.
The receiver can only output 13/18 volts and less than half an amp.

It's too late to know, "but" seems like the coax had a short, or stray strand of the shield that caused this.


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## hdtvfan0001

BubblePuppy said:


> I'm thinking about calling DirecTV and seeing (under the protection plan) if they will replace the two DVRs with the HR24 with the built in DECA. I don't have a lot of trust in those external ones anymore.


The added info on your late companion SMOKE was nice.

Yeah...the external DECAs here actually worked well during their time...and I still retain several of them as "emergency spares" for older HD units that require them if I decide to reactive those devices. In the mean time, everything here is internal DECA, and that's the overall direction things are going with DirecTV hardware for a while now anyway since anything x24 or x25 were released.

The new black DECA units should work for you just fine. Glad you're all OK.


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## veryoldschool

hdtvfan0001 said:


> The new black DECA units should work for you just fine.


"Unless" it has the same manufacturing defect.


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## hdtvfan0001

veryoldschool said:


> "Unless" it has the same manufacturing defect.


Good point...I guess we don't know if the "insides" are made up of the same identical components or construction attributes. I suspect *somebody* might know that information though...and I also suspect DirecTV would *want to know *about this incident.


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## veryoldschool

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Good point...I guess we don't know if the "insides" are made up of the same identical components or construction attributes.


"I just" keep seeing the coax as what failed.
The DECAs get warm, but this heat [mostly] comes from the transmitter, which is on the other end.


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## veryoldschool

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Good point...I guess we don't know if the "insides" are made up of the same identical components or construction attributes. I suspect *somebody* might know that information though...and I also suspect DirecTV would *want to know *about this incident.


"Well you know me"....

I'd remove the coax, inspect and try another to see if it works.


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## hdtvfan0001

veryoldschool said:


> "I just" keep seeing the coax as what failed.
> The DECAs get warm, but this heat [mostly] comes from the transmitter, which is on the other end.





veryoldschool said:


> "Well you know me"....
> 
> I'd remove the coax, inspect and try another to see if it works.


Inquiring minds want to know I'm told....


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## BubblePuppy

Update: I just got off the phone with Taven, great guy. He was actually appalled when he read the notes from last night and saw what little was being done because of the issue. So now two HR24s will be installed Monday, the installer is instructed to go over every connection from dish to boxes and look over the burnt deca. Also he added Showtime and Starz for 6 months. When I told Missy that there won't be any more external deca's in the house she was greatly relieved as she has a deathly fear of fire...fire where it shouldn't be. I'm relieved also.
Thanks to everyone who expressed concerned and relief that nothing really bad happened. I appreciate that.


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## hdtvfan0001

BubblePuppy said:


> Update: I just got off the phone with Taven, great guy. He was actually appalled when he read the notes from last night and saw what little was being done because of the issue. So now two HR24s will be installed Monday, the installer is instructed to go over every connection from dish to boxes and look over the burnt deca.


That is really great news to hear about...especially the concern and follow-up.


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## Laxguy

Great news! 

It's also caused me, and probably others, to check out various power supplies and rat's nests.... (no, I am not suggesting yours was a rat's nest!) to make sure everything is running within temp and is not enclosed. 

Is there any chance any pet or animal could have chewed on the cable?


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## veryoldschool

Laxguy said:


> Is there any chance any pet or animal could have chewed on the cable?


Wouldn't look likely from the picture. The connection to the DECA looks like the point of failure "to me".


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## NR4P

I see an FCC label on the DECA unit but not a UL or ETL label. Those are the labs that test things for safety. I don't even plug in a 5v or 12v wall transformer unless I see a UL or ETL mark on it.

These agencies test for things like this.


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## BubblePuppy

I thought about heat build up but the television stand where the dvr and dvd disc player are located is open in front and back so I would think there wouldn't be any heat build up. The more I look at the burnt ends the more I think there was some sort of short. What caused the short is a mystery because of the way it seemed to slowly deteriorate.


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## P Smith

veryoldschool said:


> I keep looking at the photo.
> I see the coax is what overheated and caught fire in the end.
> The receiver can only output 13/18 volts and less than half an amp.
> 
> It's too late to know, "but" seems like the coax had a short, or stray strand of the shield that caused this.


Other reason could be if the shield wires didn't come in good contact with F-connector (?) at DECA box; that could create some resistance ( a few Ohm) so increased voltage's drop to that level and the shield connection become a heater.


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## ndole

I didn't realize that Directv contracted through GM for these


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## hdtvfan0001

ndole said:


> I didn't realize that Directv contracted through *FORD* for these


Fixed your post...home of the Pinto....the only car sold with marshmellows in the glove box.


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## ndole

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Fixed your post...home of the Pinto....the only car sold with marshmellows in the glove box.


I was thinking something more contemporary. Something with some flammable batteries :lol:


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## viclovr

BubblePuppy said:


> Update: I just got off the phone with Taven, great guy. He was actually appalled when he read the notes from last night and saw what little was being done because of the issue. So now two HR24s will be installed Monday, the installer is instructed to go over every connection from dish to boxes and look over the burnt deca. Also he added Showtime and Starz for 6 months. When I told Missy that there won't be any more external deca's in the house she was greatly relieved as she has a deathly fear of fire...fire where it shouldn't be. I'm relieved also.
> Thanks to everyone who expressed concerned and relief that nothing really bad happened. I appreciate that.


since the hr24 has an integrated deca unit. doesnt it mean that the same hardware from the external unit be there or is the deca built into it in a different way?


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## dielray

viclovr said:


> since the hr24 has an integrated deca unit. doesnt it mean that the same hardware from the external unit be there or is the deca built into it in a different way?


Same or similar chips. The suspect here is the connector. I see shorts in the field daily, so this is very concerning if that is the true cause.


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## Mike_TV

Thanks for the follow up. Kind of sucks that you had to call multiple times to get this fixed the right way.


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## RAD

BubblePuppy, you might want to log this problem at http://www.cpsc.gov/. Yes DIRECTV will be fixing your problem it might be worth for the Consumer Product Safety Commision to know about something that might have started a fire.


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## P Smith

If that broken end of the cable is permanently attached to the DECA box then DTV must recall all such DECA boxes before real tragedy will happen.
It it detachable short coax cable then quickly replace all of them.


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## BubblePuppy

"P Smith" said:


> If that broken end of the cable is permanently attached to the DECA box then DTV must recall all such DECA boxes before real tragedy will happen.
> It it detachable short coax cable then quickly replace all of them.


It was the permanent "Sat Rcvr/ Power" end.


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## veryoldschool

BubblePuppy said:


> It was the permanent "Sat Rcvr/ Power" end.


It's just a pigtail attached to a connector and then shrink tubing.


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## P Smith

veryoldschool said:


> It's just a pigtail attached to a connector and then shrink tubing.


Is there F-type (threaded)connector inside under shrink tube ?


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## veryoldschool

P Smith said:


> Is there F-type (threaded)connector inside under shrink tube ?


It looks like it, but I'm not cutting one up to find it.


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## P Smith

That would bring DTV to expensive recall - all DECA of the batch must be recalled immediately !


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## dielray

It is just a normal connector inside it. Some of the new black ones come loose, so we have to tear off the shrink tube and tighten it up.


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## BubblePuppy

Just got the call from the installer...he is on his way with two HR24s. I can't be there but Missy knows what to do. Also the installer is not to take the burnt deca.


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## Groundhog45

Wow, I just saw this thread. What a relief that you came home when you did. I'm glad the second person at DirecTV took appropriate action. Perhaps someone here at DBStalk with access to DirecTV can find out who to send the burned DECA to for analysis. Glad your family is OK.


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## dpeters11

The mods here certainly do have contacts, but if it takes that, then I'd think that's a failure. DirecTV should initiate getting it back to analyze. 

I'm glad that I no longer need them.


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## BubblePuppy

"Groundhog45" said:


> Wow, I just saw this thread. What a relief that you came home when you did. I'm glad the second person at DirecTV took appropriate action. Perhaps someone here at DBStalk with access to DirecTV can find out who to send the burned DECA to for analysis. Glad your family is OK.


I did get a call from Bruce from Directv. They are sending a team out to investigate this. This team may be flying from CA. I'm not sure. I'm keeping the HR20 and the deca for their investigation. 
Here is what I don't get, I talked to 5 people between Friday night and Saturday morning, no one seemed to have a heightened concern about one of directv's supplied equipment catching fire. I would think one of the five would have contacted someone higher up. 
Bruce said he found out about it by reading my post, perhaps someone here alerted him. 
Anyway it has moved up the "fire" ladder, so to speak.

Addendum: I did get a pm requesting my contact info so I could be contacted directly, so there was some Dirctv/DBSTalk communication.
Thank you D.B. for that.


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## veryoldschool

BubblePuppy said:


> Here is what I don't get, I talked to 5 people between Friday night and Saturday morning, no one seemed to have a heightened concern about one of directv's supplied equipment catching fire. I would think one of the five would have contacted someone higher up.


I can't imagine a front line CSR has anything in their script/training to deal/handle something like this.


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## BubblePuppy

veryoldschool said:


> I can't imagine a front line CSR has anything in their script/training to deal/handle something like this.


I did talk to a supervisor on Friday night. But yea...there was a lot of stuttering going on and I'm sure a lot of page turning.
The tech I talked to Saturday was very knowledgeable and never once resorted to script talk. In fact had this happened even ten to 15 minutes earlier and we had been home he would have been the one I would have talked to, but he was leaving for lunch when I called.


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## hdtvfan0001

BubblePuppy said:


> I did get a call from Bruce from Directv. They are sending a team out to investigate this. This team may be flying from CA. I'm not sure. I'm keeping the HR20 and the deca for their investigation.
> Here is what I don't get, I talked to 5 people between Friday night and Saturday morning, no one seemed to have a heightened concern about one of directv's supplied equipment catching fire. I would think one of the five would have contacted someone higher up.
> Bruce said he found out about it by reading my post, perhaps someone here alerted him.
> Anyway it has moved up the "fire" ladder, so to speak.
> 
> Addendum: I did get a pm requesting my contact info so I could be contacted directly, so there was some Dirctv/DBSTalk communication.
> Thank you D.B. for that.


It is quite encouraging to hear they are taking this all very seriously and going to that length to investigage the matter.

The final findings will be very interesting.


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## raott

hdtvfan0001 said:


> It is quite encouraging to hear they are taking this all very seriously and going to that length to investigage the matter.
> 
> The final findings will be very interesting.


It would be utterly foolish of them not to.


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## hdtvfan0001

raott said:


> It would be utterly foolish of them not to.


Of course it would....but then....some companies might take that approach....ignore it and pretend it didn't happen.

Glad they are taking the right road on this.

I wonder if BubblePubby will get 3 free months of Showtime out of all this trouble.... :lol:


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## Laxguy

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Of course it would....but then....some companies might take that approach....ignore it and pretend it didn't happen.
> 
> Glad they are taking the right road on this.
> 
> I wonder if BubblePubby will get 3 free months of Showtime out of all this trouble.... :lol:


Sounded like some upgrades in DVRs, fer shure!

Not to be too whimsical, BP, as this is a frightening and upsetting development.

Hope it all turns out fine for you and Mrs. BP.


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## BubblePuppy

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Of course it would....but then....some companies might take that approach....ignore it and pretend it didn't happen.
> 
> Glad they are taking the right road on this.
> 
> I wonder if BubblePubby will get 3 free months of Showtime out of all this trouble.... :lol:


I got 6 months. 



Laxguy said:


> Sounded like some upgrades in DVRs, fer shure!
> 
> Not to be too whimsical, BP, as this is a frightening and upsetting development.
> 
> Hope it all turns out fine for you and Mrs. BP.


Two HR24s replacing a HR20-700 and a HR23-700. I did hint at the HR34 and the tech rep said sure.....for $399.00. Maybe I should have Spock call on my behalf.


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## P Smith

BubblePuppy said:


> I got 6 months.
> 
> Two HR24s replacing a HR20-700 and a HR23-700. I did hint at the HR34 and the tech rep said sure.....for $399.00. *Maybe I should have Spock call on my behalf.*


Just tell another CSR: *"come and smell what would my whole house if you didn't come in right time !"*


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## west99999

I would bet you have some sort of electrical issue, the outlet may have hot and neutral reversed or some type of grounding issue. These things (DECAS) dont just catch on fire.


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## BubblePuppy

I received a call from Clayton, super tech, and yes he will be flying in from LA next week. I'm impressed. 
Again.. he read about this incident on DBSTalk. 
The installer did check the outlets and said everything was fine. 
Now to get the HR24s setup. If only Directv had a settings syncing method like Google/Android.
This units are wickedly fast. I'll see if that lasts when it is filled with recordings.


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## veryoldschool

BubblePuppy said:


> The installer did check the outlets and said everything was fine.


Since it was "fed" by your DVR, it really comes down to the DVR to DECA path, and whether there was anything in the DECA that shorted, or whether it was at the connection of the coax to the DECA where the short was.
This has to be a first [and hopefully only] case of this.

When the PS in my computer did this [melted down] it stunk, which got my attention long before there was any fire.


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## BubblePuppy

"veryoldschool" said:


> Since it was "fed" by your DVR, it really comes down to the DVR to DECA path, and whether there was anything in the DECA that shorted, or whether it was at the connection of the coax to the DECA where the short was.
> This has to be a first [and hopefully only] case of this.
> 
> When the PS in my computer did this [melted down] it stunk, which got my attention long before there was any fire.


VOS, I agree. I think the problem was between the deca and the dvr.


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## NR4P

This has been a very interesting thread.
In all liklihood, the tech will want to take the burnt DECA unit back with him.
Given that you had no real damage why not?

Also if they have any other incidents of this on file, they will likely have to notify the Consumer Products Safety Commission. Possible recall too. Could be expensive to Directv.


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## BubblePuppy

"NR4P" said:


> This has been a very interesting thread.
> In all liklihood, the tech will want to take the burnt DECA unit back with him.
> Given that you had no real damage why not?
> 
> Also if they have any other incidents of this on file, they will likely have to notify the Consumer Products Safety Commission. Possible recall too. Could be expensive to Directv.


So far this is the first report of a fire associated with a deca. I was instructed to keep the deca and the HR20 it was connected to. Those will be going back to Directv either with Clayton after his arrival or shipped back. I believe he wants to look at those when he gets here. I've even sent him all the pictures I took of the burnt deca.


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## veryoldschool

BubblePuppy said:


> I believe he wants to look at those when he gets here.


"If He Doesn't", then I want too. :lol:


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## P Smith

veryoldschool said:


> "If He Doesn't", then I want too. :lol:


They will not give it to anyone - it's an evidence for big lawsuit .


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## Laxguy

P Smith said:


> They will not give it to anyone - it's an evidence for big lawsuit .


Mr. BP doesn't seem the type to start lawsuits over such a matter. Unless he's just been pretending to be a good guy for lo these many years.....


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## amenic

Corrected. This is going to be irrelevant information as whole home automatically includes a SWIM, and therefore OP didn't have any B-bands to begin with 

H23/HR23s are the only receivers with built in B-band converters. When you replace an HR20 or such with an HR-24 they keep the B-bands, except when upgrading to a SWIM. With a SWIM installed DVRs only need one line in, not two, and B-bands get tossed. Going from multiswich to SWIM changes the requirements for a lot of things. D10s/D11s, R10s/R15s, and legacies ususally aren't SWIM compatable at all. D12s, R16s/R22s, and HR20s-24s can work with or without one. HR34 and H25 REQUIRE one to function so although neither of them have built in B-bands, the mandatory SWIM takes care of that for them.


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## dsw2112

amenic said:


> Just a side note: The H23/HR23s are the only receivers with built in Decas. If you just replace an HR20 or such with an HR-24, you'll still need external Decas. I'm guessing that in this situation they also upgraded the houses system to a SWIM setup. With a SWIM installed DVRs only need one line in, not two, and Decas get tossed. Going from multiswich to SWIM changes the requirements for everything. D10s/D11s, R10s/R15s, and legacies ususally aren't compatable at all. D12s, R16s/R22s, and HR20s-24s can work with or without one. HR34 and H25 REQUIRE one to function so although neither of them have built in DECAs, the mandatory SWIM takes care of that for them.


You're posting some very inacurate info here:

H23/HR23's do not have internal DECA 
HR24's have internal DECA
DECA's do not "get tossed" with a SWM setup (in fact, SWM is a requirement for DECA.)
HR34 and H25 have internal DECA


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## redsoxfan26

amenic said:


> Just a side note: *The H23/HR23s are the only receivers with built in Decas. If you just replace an HR20 or such with an HR-24, you'll still need external Decas.* I'm guessing that in this situation they also upgraded the houses system to a SWIM setup. With a SWIM installed DVRs only need one line in, not two, and Decas get tossed. Going from multiswich to SWIM changes the requirements for everything. D10s/D11s, R10s/R15s, and legacies ususally aren't compatable at all. D12s, R16s/R22s, and HR20s-24s can work with or without one. HR34 and H25 REQUIRE one to function so although neither of them have built in DECAs, the mandatory SWIM takes care of that for them.


Incorrect, the 23's have wide band tuners that don't require BBC's on a non-SWIM setup. They do require DECA's for MRV. The 24's have built in DECA's.

Edit: dsw2112 beat me to it


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## BubblePuppy

"Laxguy" said:


> Mr. BP doesn't seem the type to start lawsuits over such a matter. Unless he's just been pretending to be a good guy for lo these many years.....


Not even a thought of a lawsuit. Now if I had spilled some hot McDonald's coffee in my lap due to the fire.... ;-) 
Actually I feel Directv is going above and beyond what I would have expected. Instead of just having me send the faulty equipment back they are sending a field technician from Los Angeles to investigate and check my equipment and installation. 
I might just treat him to dinner.


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## Diana C

NR4P said:


> This has been a very interesting thread.
> In all liklihood, the tech will want to take the burnt DECA unit back with him.
> Given that you had no real damage why not?
> 
> Also if they have any other incidents of this on file, they will likely have to notify the Consumer Products Safety Commission. Possible recall too. Could be expensive to Directv.


Recalls only happen in extreme circumstances, when there are several reported cases of product safety issues. Basically, there has to be a demonstrable pattern of safety issues.

Also, unless the law has been changed in the last few years, DirecTV doesn't have to file a report with the Commission since there was no personal injury or collateral property damage. Granted, there could have been, but the rules don't require a report of potential damage.

DirecTV is going way above and beyond what they are required to do. They are apparently doing it not because they have to, but because they are being good corporate citizens.


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## usnret

+1.


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## Carl Spock

BubblePuppy, what a scary scene! My father was burned out when he was a kid and I was raised to be afraid of fire. I have industrial strength fire extinguishers around the house. I might have thrown everything out on the lawn and spent a night in a motel room if I'd had your experience.

Both DirecTV's rapid corporate response and your attitude in this situation have been exemplary. You receive my highest regards. I admire you no end.

And anytime you want a HR34, just ask.


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## Surveyor40

Thank you BP, because of your post you made me verify my own Deca's. I'm not concerned about the Deca's on the shelf in each room, as I can easily get to those. But, I have 4 dvr's installed in a built in rack enclosed in a cubby hole in the basement. If one did light up like yours, I would have to unscrew the shelf first which would be too late. I'm now planning on moving the Deca's to their own shelf, up front, then run coax extensions back to the dvr's. I will wire manage them, and provide strain relief. I've been in a fire before, the experience changes your life's perspective. In this matter I would prefer to be preventive then ignore the possibility. And, kudo's to D* for being a good corporate citizen. Regardless how D* management became aware, they appear to be genuinely concerned.


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## BubblePuppy

This little incident has been a learning experience on several levels.
One: Even the most innocuous piece of electronic gear can fail and ignite. So I'm glad that this has inspired many members to double check and even relocate equipment to make a safer environment. 

Two: It has illustrated to Directv where the weak link in the CSR chain is. The fact that 5 people whom I talked to (one being a supervisor) never felt that a piece of their equipment catching fire was important enough to alert the higher ups. Hopefully this will change.

Three: That there are people at Directv who take this sort of thing seriously and are willing to go above and beyond to make sure their customers are safe and that the equipment is safe to use. I think Directv has a customer for life.

Four: The fact that the two people who contacted me, including the one flying from LA to go over my setup, became alerted about this by reading it here on DBSTalk just reinforces what we all know about this forum, Directv does read what is posted here (watch it Spock.  ) This forum plays no small role in decisions made by Directv. Doug and all who participate here have created an incredible communications tool.


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## NR4P

Titan25 said:


> Recalls only happen in extreme circumstances, when there are several reported cases of product safety issues. Basically, there has to be a demonstrable pattern of safety issues.
> 
> Also, unless the law has been changed in the last few years, DirecTV doesn't have to file a report with the Commission since there was no personal injury or collateral property damage. Granted, there could have been, but the rules don't require a report of potential damage.
> 
> DirecTV is going way above and beyond what they are required to do. They are apparently doing it not because they have to, but because they are being good corporate citizens.


Sorry Titan, I have a different view from a first hand recall experience in prior career. But won't drag the thread into a different direction. Glad Directv finally did the right thing after the first call seemed less than positive from BP's first post.


----------



## amenic

Blast. Sorry about that. My brain misfired and I thought we were talking about B-band converters. Corrected post.


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## inkahauts

Good grief. Now I am thinking of going hybrid and as soon as I can clear my last old units, upgrade to all hr24s.. Anyone have a owned hr24 they want to sell? YIKES!

I am glad everything is working out, and I am curios to see what the tech says after he has visited you.


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## dondude32

Have 3 of these installed in the kids rooms. Every room has a smoke detector, but still makes me nervous. HR20-700 has been acting up lately losing signal where I have to remove power cord? Hope it's not related to deca unit.:eek2:


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## P Smith

You must start developing a safety habit: check a temperature of each DECA box each evening.


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## veryoldschool

I don't want to dismiss any concerns over this, but at the same time, I would hope that it's kept in perspective too.

I have no idea of how many DECAs have been put in service, but the numbers must be staggering, and they've been out for several years.

We have one occurrence reported.


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## P Smith

Seen how DTV is reacting, it would be better be safe then sorry - the price is our life.


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## Laxguy

I'm with VOS on this one. Safety, yes. Compulsive attention, no. If the DECAs are in the open, and visually checked for abrasion or cuts, and checked for tight connection, you don't need to do more.


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## P Smith

Well, you are overreacting to my posts ... I did propose to check DECA boxes temperature for now.


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## BubblePuppy

dondude32 said:


> Have 3 of these installed in the kids rooms. Every room has a smoke detector, but still makes me nervous. HR20-700 has been acting up lately losing signal where I have to remove power cord? Hope it's not related to deca unit.:eek2:


As I posted there appeared to be three indicators that something was amiss:
1. Video break up and pixalation during clear days/nights. ( I can't be sure this was caused by the deca connector going out)
2. When turning on the tv there would be the notice that "communication with the satellite was lost", but that was the only indication as the video was fine and the buffer full.
3. Consistent loss of home network connection.
In that order. It was about a couple of month between item 1 and two, about a month between 2 & 3, and a day between 3 and the combustion.

In the words of the great detective: "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

So I would first assume that your problem might be at the satellite dish or a connection. Have a tech come out and check the alignment and connections.
If that is ok and you still have issues you can switch deca units (if you have more than one) and see if the problem follows the unit in question, maybe have the tech bring out a replacement when they are going to check the dish.
If the problem does follow the unit then I would call Directv and bypass the script talkers and talk to a real tech. I'm sure my issue has made the rounds.


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## west99999

Well any update on this?


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## P Smith

Still smelling like a sh&$&% !


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## mweldridge

I had 3 DECA units installed about 1 month ago. I saw this post and just checked all 3. They are very warn at the end where the coax feed is attached. Now I'm concerned.....


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## veryoldschool

mweldridge said:


> I had 3 DECA units installed about 1 month ago. I saw this post and just checked all 3. They are very warn at the end where the coax feed is attached. Now I'm concerned.....


If it's not on the pigtail to the receiver, the warmth comes from it being a 1 milliwatt RF transmitter.


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## P Smith

I don't think 1 mW will rise the temp to warmth status ...


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## veryoldschool

P Smith said:


> I don't think 1 mW will rise the temp to warmth status ...


Do you have one to know/feel?
Since I have, it's fairly clear.


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## P Smith

By law of thermodynamic and Ohm's law... the very low energy will dissipate to surrounding air faster then produce the temp. Try to make an experiment - get a resistor and power source - calcualte it for say 5V: P=I*U=U*U/R = 25/R=1 mW, where R=25 kOhm. Now tell me what temp the resistor will be ?


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## veryoldschool

P Smith said:


> By law of thermodynamic and Ohm's law... the very low energy will dissipate to surrounding air faster then produce the temp.


What air?
The output connector on the white DECA is the heat sink, and gets warm.
The WCCK is larger and its output doesn't get as warm, but is warm.
I'm sure it's the law of thermodynamics, but doubt it's Ohm's.


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## P Smith

For generating the calories - yes. It's P [1mW], and try the 24 kOhm resistor (I'm sure you'll will not feel it warm ).


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## dondude32

My 3 deca's are warm. Here's a link where some users find them very warm.
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=206149


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## veryoldschool

P Smith said:


> For generating the calories - yes. It's P [1mW], and try the 24 kOhm resistor (I'm sure you'll will not feel it warm ).


"the power source" needs to be RF and just like a power meter that uses a thermistor, heat is generated.
The DECAs use the input connector as a heat sink. The WCCK has more mass so its input isn't as warm, but the unit overall feels like it too generates as much heat.


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## veryoldschool

dondude32 said:


> some users find them very warm.


Too bad this can't be quantified.
What is "too warm" for one person may not be for another.

I've never found any of mine to be "too warm to touch", but yes they do get warm.


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## veryoldschool

I setup a couple of DECAs to see where and how much warmth comes out.

I don't find ANYTHING that would relate to the original burned up DECA here:


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## dennisj00

Just throwing my 2 cents here . . wouldn't this just be a short on the coax of the DC supply from the HR to the DECA . . . what size fuse is in the HRxx supplying DC to the coax port?


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## Laxguy

Any update?


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## Laxguy

veryoldschool said:


> I setup a couple of DECAs to see where and how much warmth comes out.
> 
> I don't find ANYTHING that would relate to the original burned up DECA here:


Nor do I. My DECA is warmest in the middle of the *bottom side* (near where the shortest arrow is). Both ferrules are warm, but not to the point of being difficult to touch for extended periods.

Folks who stack components are literally playing with fire.


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## P Smith

dennisj00 said:


> Just throwing my 2 cents here . . wouldn't this just be a short on the coax of the DC supply from the HR to the DECA . . . what size fuse is in the HRxx supplying DC to the coax port?


There is no fuse, it would be a regulation chip what is monitoring a current and will shut it off if it goes high than 1-2(?) A.


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## P Smith

Laxguy said:


> Nor do I. My DECA is warmest in the middle of the *bottom side* (near where the shortest arrow is). Both ferrules are warm, but not to the point of being difficult to touch for extended periods.
> 
> Folks who stack components are literally playing with fire.


I'm very skeptical about the "1 mW" power, it must be more than 1/2 W to get the box warm. Perhaps it's DC circuit , not RF as VOS mentioned.
Who have it open ?


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## veryoldschool

dennisj00 said:


> Just throwing my 2 cents here . . wouldn't this just be a short on the coax of the DC supply from the HR to the DECA . . . what size fuse is in the HRxx supplying DC to the coax port?


"Common sense" of failures would suggest you're 100% correct.
Without inspecting the failed unit, we simply don't know for sure.

I've been running these 2 DECAs for well over an hour and they haven't changed.

The coldest part of them is where the burnt coax is shown.

I can't stop those that want to worry, from doing so, but I find absolutely no indication that the heat from a DECA was the cause of this failure.


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## veryoldschool

P Smith said:


> There is no fuse, it would be a regulation chip what is monitoring a current and will shut it off if it goes high than 1-2(?) A.


The SAT input port current isn't over .5 amps


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## dennisj00

P Smith said:


> There is no fuse, it would be a regulation chip what is monitoring a current and will shut it off if it goes high than 1-2(?) A.


Then I would say that it was a rare combination of a coax short and a HR power supply regulation chip that didn't shut down.

The PI that I have powering a DECA for my Nomad connection is completely cold on the DC side connection. Both it and a DECA on my HR20 are warmest, but not hot, on the coax input side.


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## dennisj00

veryoldschool said:


> "Common sense" of failures would suggest you're 100% correct.
> Without inspecting the failed unit, we simply don't know for sure.
> 
> I've been running these 2 DECAs for well over an hour and they haven't changed.
> 
> The coldest part of them is where the burnt coax is shown.
> 
> I can't stop those that want to worry, from doing so, but I find absolutely no indication that the heat from a DECA was the cause of this failure.


I posted the above before seeing this but I totally agree.

We have many more 'worry' points in the average house!

I just found a problem last week that a licensed electrician (and inspector) put a 100 amp breaker (and an extra 20-25 amps of load) behind a 50 amp breaker in my panel. Nothing flamed, just failed as designed.


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## veryoldschool

After 3 hours, I'm pulling the plug on this test.

The power side connector(s) are so cool as to barely feel any warmth, while the other end is on the hot side of warm, but I can still hold the connector with my hand as long as I want.


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## P Smith

Any chance to measure the temp ?


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## P Smith

veryoldschool said:


> The SAT input port current isn't over .5 amps


The three legacy LNBFs would rake the load up to 750 mA. Adding WB68 (what was common before SWiM) would add more, that why I put 1+ A above.


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## veryoldschool

P Smith said:


> The three legacy LNBFs would rake the load up to 750 mA.


Multi-switches are rated @ 350-450 mA, and a receiver is only powering one LNB/input with legacy.


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## veryoldschool

P Smith said:


> Any chance to measure the temp ?


I wish I had something better than my touch/hand, but I don't.


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## P Smith

veryoldschool said:


> Multi-switches are rated @ 350-450 mA, and* a receiver* is only powering one LNB/input with legacy.


If it HR2x ?

Wouldn't Multi-switches require own load ?

BTW, mono-block ( multi LNBF build) has powered all LNBFs all circuitry simultaneously. And I'm doubtful if WB68 doesn't powering all separate LNBFs (up to 6 ! ) same time.


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## Go Beavs

I took this picture with an infrared camera a while ago. It's a receiver DECA with the DECA power (receiver side) on the left. The line through the connector is a CAT5e line laying across it.









As you can see, the hot spot is in the center of the unit.


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## P Smith

I see also see suspicious red spot on right side up on coax connector ...

[Recognizing it was FLIRT camera]


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## tbolt

Go Beavs said:


> I took this picture with an infrared camera a while ago. It's a receiver DECA with the DECA power (receiver side) on the left. The line through the connector is a CAT5e line laying across it.
> 
> View attachment 29939
> 
> 
> As you can see, the hot spot is in the center of the unit.


The measurements I took agree closely with yours.

I used an Infra Red Temperature probe - $20 Harbor Freight Tools.

White DECA box measured 95F on the Coax Input and 105F in the middle.

Black DECA 2 box measured 96F on the Coax Input and 106F in the middle.


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## scb2k

I have three of these set up in my house. I'm now a bit concerned and second guessing whether WHOLE HOME is worth the risk of a potential fire. 

BubblePuppy, I'm glad to read that your family and belonging are okay. Thank you for bringing this to our attention.


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## inkahauts

"scb2k" said:


> I have three of these set up in my house. I'm now a bit concerned and second guessing whether WHOLE HOME is worth the risk of a potential fire.
> 
> BubblePuppy, I'm glad to read that your family and belonging are okay. Thank you for bringing this to our attention.


If you read through the thread, it doesn't look like the bbdeca had anything to do with the burning up of the cable, but that the cable was bad.


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## P Smith

inkahauts said:


> If you read through the thread, it doesn't look like the bbdeca had anything to do with the burning up of the cable,* but that the cable was bad*.


Did you receive real DTV failure report for the OP case ? Or just speculating?


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## BubblePuppy

I guess I should update this with there really isn't much of a update. Clayton arrived from LA and had checked all of the outside connections and was starting on the inside when I arrived home from work. He checked every single connection, checked the electrical outlet and the power strip. He even ran some diagnostics on the setup with some weird grid displays on the tv. Everything was fine. 
Looking at the Deca there was a very small spot on the band close to the Deca that sort of looked like where a metal to metal contact might have been made that produced a short or spark. However there was nothing metallic anywhere close to have caused that.
Clayton didn't think the Deca unit caused the fire, could have been some anomalies in the output from the HR20, defective wiring construction in the connecting cable, or a number of things that came together to produce this. If you read my time frame the cause of this didn't happen suddenly, the deterioration was occurring over a long period of time with observable effects (of course only realized this after the fact).
Clayton took the the Deca pieces and the HR20 with him to LA for the autopsy. 
Maybe he will let me know the outcome and maybe not.
But like he said that this is the first and only instance of this happening, so I wouldn't over react to it. Just make sure there isn't any chance of a metal to metal short or arc happening, keep all bends shallow.
If I know anymore I'll update again.


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## veryoldschool

BubblePuppy said:


> maybe "turn off"/stanby the dvrs when not watching tv.


Would be pointless because the DECA stays powered.


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## Carl Spock

scb2k said:


> I have three of these set up in my house. I'm now a bit concerned and second guessing whether WHOLE HOME is worth the risk of a potential fire.


If you are going to be this concerned about potential fires, you'll never get in a car again. Vehicle fires happen much more frequently that BubblePuppy's problem. From 2002 to 2005, there were an average of 305,800 vehicle fires per year, causing on average 520 deaths and 1,640 injuries. link

In BP's case, there was one fire that caused no deaths or injuries.

So, in other words, if you have to travel from Chicago to Los Angeles, take a DECA, not a car. :grin:


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## BubblePuppy

veryoldschool said:


> Would be pointless because the DECA stays powered.


That's true...my error, not Claytons. Hmm...now where is that edit button.


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## BubblePuppy

Carl Spock said:


> If you are going to be this concerned about potential fires, you'll never get in a car again.
> So, in other words, if you have to travel from Chicago to Los Angeles, take a DECA, not a car. :grin:


Tight squeeze.


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## hdtvfan0001

So the mystery seems to continue.

I'm assuming they will follow-up after their autopsy of the DECA and HR20.

In the mean time, hopefully things are now calmer and you have newer equipment in place to provide some peace of mind.


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## BubblePuppy

hdtvfan0001 said:


> So the mystery seems to continue.
> 
> I'm assuming they will follow-up after their autopsy of the DECA and HR20.
> 
> In the mean time, hopefully things are now calmer and you have newer equipment in place to provide some peace of mind.


I would like to think that I am still in the loop. The reality of it could be different.
I have to commend Directv on the response, replacing both dvrs with HR24's to eliminate the use of external decas, sending Clayton from LA to investigate the issue, and giving me a few months of free premium movie channels.


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## veryoldschool

BubblePuppy said:


> I would like to think that I am still in the loop. The reality of it could be different.


I just have the feeling this will be handled internally from here out.


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## hdtvfan0001

veryoldschool said:


> I just have the feeling this will be handled internally from here out.


That would make sense.


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## dpeters11

Yes, to me the impressive thing is their response. They didn't just tell you to throw out the old one and send you a new one. Even if nothing more is heard about it, it shows that they really did take it seriously, not just a standard press statement "we're taking this very seriously."


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## P Smith

dpeters11 said:


> Yes, to me *the impressive thing is their response.* They didn't just tell you to throw out the old one and send you a new one. Even if nothing more is heard about it, it shows that they really did take it seriously, not just a standard press statement "we're taking this very seriously."


OMG. That's show how we beaten down to dust with "our" problem related to equipments what the companies selling/renting to us.

We see normal [PROPER] reaction of the company and ppl start qualifying this as high courteous handling.

Definitely our brains washed seriously.


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## BubblePuppy

P Smith said:


> OMG. That's show how we beaten down to dust with "our" problem related to equipments what the companies selling/renting to us.
> 
> We see normal [PROPER] reaction of the company and ppl start qualifying this as high courteous handling.
> 
> Definitely our brains washed seriously.


I have to disagree.
All Directv had to do was send a return box for the Deca (and the dvr if necessary) and send me a new Deca or send out a installer to attach the new Deca and make sure the HR20 was working. They did not have to replace the HR20 that was involved with fire sight unseen.
At my request Directv replaced both dvrs of my with two HR24s. How many times will Directv replace a unit with a requested model? Not often from what I read. You get what they send you, no guarantees which model you get.

Directv had the installer of the HR24s go over every connection and connector, cable to cable, from satellite to wall outlet. He could have just connected the dvrs, made sure the two were working and left.
And to top it all off Directv flies out Clayton from Los Angeles to Missouri to go over everything again, plus perform even more intensive testings. he spent over 3+ hours at my house. 
And again, all Directv could have done is send me a return box and replace the burnt deca. 
There is no way I will say that Directv gave me standard, everyday service. This transcended that..for what ever the motives were.


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## hdtvfan0001

BubblePuppy said:


> I have to disagree.
> All Directv had to do was send a return box for the Deca (and the dvr if necessary) and send me a new Deca or send out a installer to attach the new Deca and make sure the HR20 was working. They did not have to replace the HR20 that was involved with fire sight unseen.
> 
> At my request Directv replaced both dvrs of my with two HR24s. How many times will Directv replace a unit with a requested model? Not often from what I read. You get what they send you, no guarantees which model you get.
> 
> Directv had the installer of the HR24s go over every connection and connector, cable to cable, from satellite to wall outlet. He could have just connected the dvrs, made sure the two were working and left.
> And to top it all off Directv flies out Clayton from Los Angeles to Missouri to go over everything again, plus perform even more intensive testings. he spent over 3+ hours at my house.
> And again, all Directv could have done is send me a return box and replace the burnt deca.
> There is no way I will say that Directv gave me standard, everyday service. This transcended that..for what ever the motives were.


It seems quite fair to say that they demonstrated real concern on your situation, went the extra mile to investigate, and did the right thing to get you new replacement units.


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## P Smith

BubblePuppy said:


> I have to disagree.
> All Directv had to do was send a return box for the Deca (and the dvr if necessary) and send me a new Deca or send out a installer to attach the new Deca and make sure the HR20 was working. They did not have to replace the HR20 that was involved with fire sight unseen.
> At my request Directv replaced both dvrs of my with two HR24s. How many times will Directv replace a unit with a requested model? Not often from what I read. You get what they send you, no guarantees which model you get.
> 
> Directv had the installer of the HR24s go over every connection and connector, cable to cable, from satellite to wall outlet. He could have just connected the dvrs, made sure the two were working and left.
> And to top it all off Directv flies out Clayton from Los Angeles to Missouri to go over everything again, plus perform even more intensive testings. he spent over 3+ hours at my house.
> And again, all Directv could have done is send me a return box and replace the burnt deca.
> There is no way I will say that Directv gave me standard, everyday service. This transcended that..for what ever the motives were.


That's typical enduser point of view.

I'm talking from opposite side and common rules: they did nothing extra; if you would work for any company where is fire could start by the equipment, you'll know how handle such cases properly. Telling you ... (had experience working with Li-Ion batteries and you know last years issues with these)


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## MalcolmG

Saw this paper and thought of this thread. Interesting read.http://www.kodiakconsulting.com/page19/assets/Low%20Voltage_The%20Incompetent%20Ignition%20Source_Final.pdf


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## P Smith

That's why I hate see white residue on PCB (boards); always cleaning it by isoprpanol. 

But seen that very often .


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## Laxguy

Carl Spock said:


> If you are going to be this concerned about potential fires, you'll never get in a car again. Vehicle fires happen much more frequently that BubblePuppy's problem. From 2002 to 2005, there were an average of 305,800 vehicle fires per year, causing on average 520 deaths and 1,640 injuries. link
> 
> In BP's case, there was one fire that caused no deaths or injuries.
> 
> So, in other words, if you have to travel from Chicago to Los Angeles, take a DECA, not a car. :grin:


Heh.....

If you have any fear of DECAs being vulnerable (I don't), keep them away from enclosures. That'd also ensure that the cable and its connectors have air circulating around them, and that a visual might show scorching before any danger of any combustion.


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## hdtvfan0001

Laxguy said:


> If you have any fear of DECAs being vulnerable (I don't), keep them away from enclosures. That'd also ensure that the cable and its connectors have air circulating around them, and that a visual might show scorching before any danger of any combustion.


Agree.

I've used as many as 5 external DECa units at one time (no longer though, as DECA is internal in all my units). No fear here to reuse one if I need to add one of my dormant older units back into the network.


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## BubblePuppy

Very interesting article. 
Perhaps my Deca grew whiskers and needed a shave. 
http://www.sc.edu/news/newsarticle.php?nid=5371#.UMRY4KNMHJt


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## Steve

BubblePuppy said:


> Very interesting article.
> Perhaps my Deca grew whiskers and needed a shave.
> http://www.sc.edu/news/newsarticle.php?nid=5371#.UMRY4KNMHJt


Fascinating stuff.

I hope they're wrong about this:


> Some observers even predict that it's only a matter of time before miniature devices built after the ban *[on adding lead to tin solder]* start failing en masse.


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## wrj

BubblePuppy said:


> Very interesting article.
> Perhaps my Deca grew whiskers and needed a shave.
> http://www.sc.edu/news/newsarticle.php?nid=5371#.UMRY4KNMHJt


I was the head of a design group and we encounter this issue on one of our designs. However, I do not believe it is a massive issue as suggested by this article.

First, we had to use a scanning electron microscope to even see the whiskers. in enough detail. Also, they occurred only in a particular portion of the circuit where the impedance was right. And finally, proper cleaning of the circuit board (after wave solder) fixed the issue. Since most PWAs today predominately use SMT (surface mount) and there is quite a bit of lead free soldering, I wonder how significant this will really be. It would be interesting to hear from an expert in this area. BTW, it didn't take very long for issues to show up for us either. I'm not convinced this is a ticking time-bomb.


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## Carl Spock

Tin Whiskers

Great name for a rock band.


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## Richierich

veryoldschool said:


> I just have the feeling this will be handled internally from here out.


I agree.


----------



## Carl Spock

wrj said:


> I'm not convinced this is a ticking time-bomb.


*It's the End Of The World!*

Tin whiskers could cause Toyotas to accellerate

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/21/toyota-sudden-acceleration-tin-whiskers_n_1221076.html

satellites to fail

http://nepp.nasa.gov/whisker/failures/index.htm

computers to die

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2008/apr/03/research.engineering

and pacemakers to be recalled.

http://www.fda.gov/ICECI/Inspections/InspectionGuides/InspectionTechnicalGuides/ucm072921.htm

You could DIE because of tin whiskers!

(But then, if you haven't had your 1970s pacemaker replaced by now, you're probably dead, anyway.)



And there already is a rock band.

http://www.tinwhiskersband.com/


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## Laxguy

Great research! 
I think I won't read the articles, though, as I want to sleep tonight! :eek2:


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## dmurphy

BubblePuppy said:


> Very interesting article.
> Perhaps my Deca grew whiskers and needed a shave.
> http://www.sc.edu/news/newsarticle.php?nid=5371#.UMRY4KNMHJt


Been there, done that, been on the unlucky end of tin whisker contamination.

Quoted from: Page 52: http://www.filibeto.org/unix/hp-ux/lib/hardware/systems/superdome/site-prep-A5201-10024.pdf



> Zinc Particulate Contamination
> Metallic particulates can be especially harmful around electronic equipment. This type of contamination may enter the data center environment from a variety of sources, including but not limited to raised floor tiles, worn air conditioning parts, heating ducts, rotor brushes in vacuum cleaners or printer component wear. Because metallic particulates conduct electricity, they have an increased potential for creating short circuits in electronic equipment. This problem is exaggerated by the increasingly dense circuitry of electronic equipment.
> Over time, very fine whiskers of pure metal can form on electroplated zinc, cadmium, or tin surfaces. If these whiskers are disturbed, they may break off and become airborne, possibly causing failures or operational interruptions. For over 50 years, the electronics industry has been aware of the relatively rare but possible threat posed by metallic particulate contamination. During recent years, a growing concern has developed in computer rooms where these conductive contaminants are formed on the bottom of some raised floor tiles.
> Although this problem is relatively rare, it may be an issue within your computer room. Since metallic contamination can cause permanent or intermittent failures on your electronic equipment, Hewlett-Packard strongly recommends that your site be evaluated for metallic particulate contamination before installation of electronic equipment.


I've seen bulk power supplies flame out in front of my eyes due to whisker contamination.... it's rare, but real.


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## Richierich

MalcolmG said:


> Saw this paper and thought of this thread. Interesting read.http://www.kodiakconsulting.com/page19/assets/Low%20Voltage_The%20Incompetent%20Ignition%20Source_Final.pdf


Quite an amazing Article and amazing Research and to think that small amounts of Lead could solve this problem.


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## Laxguy

Richierich said:


> Quite an amazing Article and amazing Research and to think that small amounts of Lead could solve this problem.


Yes, but then you'd have the huge problem of kids eating DECAs and such......:nono2:


----------

