# Hopper Problems



## xfoneguy (Feb 1, 2006)

I've been fighting strange issues since my new 2H/1J system was installed some 5 or 6 weeks ago. I've tried every kind of troubleshooting I can think of. I think the bottom line is a defective Hopper.

Hopper # 1 is in my Family Room. #2 is in the Master Bedroom - we do most of our TV watching from there.

Often (tho not every time) when we try watching something recorded in the FR on our bedroom Hopper, we have no sound at all. I have found that the red-button reset (on the bedroom hopper) will usually bring it back - at least for a while. But often, tho we now have sound, we can't control playback - pause, ff, etc work intermittently and instead, they place a small circle in a box with a diagonal red line on the right side of the screen.

Needless to say, as this has essentially not worked correctly from day one - it is extremely frustrating.

With the help of others here, I have checked connections, settings, etc, and I don't think they are the problem.

The other night, I had 2 back-2-back 1/2 hr shows recording...... 1 at 7pm, the other at 730pm. At 745p, both the 7 o'clock and 730 programs were still recording! When I tried to play it back, the time line showed something like 271 minutes.

The front-room Joey seems to play back recordings from either Hopper just fine.

If any of this sounds familiar or there are any ideas out there before I try to contact Dish, I would really appreciate it.

Thanks


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## xfoneguy (Feb 1, 2006)

"xfoneguy" said:


> I've been fighting strange issues since my new 2H/1J system was installed some 5 or 6 weeks ago. I've tried every kind of troubleshooting I can think of. I think the bottom line is a defective Hopper.
> 
> Hopper # 1 is in my Family Room. #2 is in the Master Bedroom - we do most of our TV watching from there.
> 
> ...


So I tried swapping the 2 Hoppers around..... Very strange - with them "rolled" between the 2 rooms, I have EXACTLY the same problem, I still get no sound in the bedroom when watching recordings from the family room - the same as before I switched them around. Now I'm not sure at all where the problem might be. Could it be in the wiring maybe? But same as before, if I reboot the bedroom box, the sound comes back.

This is really frustrating.


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## broeddog (Sep 12, 2009)

Is it all new cable from dish and if it isn't, I would start their. It could be a cable or a fitting since it stayed in the bedroom.


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## oldengineer (May 25, 2008)

I'm taking a stab at this but, since MoCA uses an ethernet packet format dropped or bad packets may be your problem. TCP requires a high level of checking and retransmission of control and maintenance packets but video is probably passed without checks since small errors probably wouldn't be seen. This is all just a guess on my part.

It would be interesting if you could look at your Tx and Rx bit rates and Packet information. In case you don't know bit rates can be found at
Menu-Settings-Network Setup-Tests-View Counters and scrolling down to the bottom. You can identify your boxes by comparing the Mocax device id with the ethernet address on the box label. 

Packet info is at Setting-Network Setup-Broadband-MoCA and refreshes every few seconds. My Joeys and Hoppers have about an equal number of Tx and Rx packets per interval.


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## StringFellow (Jan 6, 2012)

Do you have Ethernet connect to both Hoppers?


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## 356B (Oct 11, 2008)

StringFellow said:


> Do you have Ethernet connect to both Hoppers?


 What is the consequence of Ethernet to both Hopper? Physically that is.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

broeddog said:


> Is it all new cable from dish and if it isn't, I would start their. It could be a cable or a fitting since it stayed in the bedroom.


That's very bold statement, and not on target.

So, no - your idea has nothing to do with the issue.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

oldengineer said:


> .... My Joeys and Hoppers have about an equal number of Tx and Rx packets per interval.


Perhaps you could clarify: number of Tx packets on H should be [almost] the same for Rx on J, if you observe when H has one J session. Same for H's Rx number of packets anf J's Tx # of packets.
I think it would be helpfull to know how the interpret the numbers for no-geeky ppl here.


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## oldengineer (May 25, 2008)

P Smith said:


> Perhaps you could clarify: number of Tx packets on H should be [almost] the same for Rx on J, if you observe when H has one J session. Same for H's Rx number of packets anf J's Tx # of packets.
> I think it would be helpfull to know how the interpret the numbers for no-geeky ppl here.


Correction. 
I just looked at my stuff again. The Hopper which has 2 Joeys linked but which are off looks like about a 3:1 Tx/Rx ratio, about 2700000/850000. This isn't really meaningful since I had a Joey on earlier and this is a cumulative number.

Instead I'm doing an experiment:

Turn a Joey on to ESPN HD and wait a little.
At t=0 I read 3009223/1029050 Tx/Rx on the Hopper
At t=10 min I read 3292607/1094022 Tx/Rx on the Hopper

With a Joey on getting an HD feed I see 283384 Tx packets in 10 mins
I see 64972 Rx packets in 10 mins

Turn off the Joey and wait a little.
At t=0 I see 3365399/1132273 Tx/Rx on the Hopper
At t=10 min I read 3373138/1140016 Tx/Rx on the Hopper

With the Joeys off I see 7739 Tx packets in 10 mins
I see 7743 Rx packets in 10 mins

So I would guess that the Hopper sent the Joey 283384-7739 = 275645 data packets in 10 mins. If packet size is 1500 bytes, the max non jumbo size, that would be 3.307Gbits or 5.512 Mbps, a pretty good data rate, higher than we receive from E* over the satellite. Of course that assumes all the packets are to the Joey. I have a HIC in my system so I'm sure part of this data is to/from the HIC.

Conclusions: 
1.With no Joeys the Tx/Rx packet rates are about equal, 750 pkts/min between Hopper and Joey, ignoring the HIC.
2. With a Joey on the data rate between the Hopper and Joey is about 27,565 packets/min, which equates to about 5.5Mbits/sec assuming 1500 byte packet size.

I looked at my other Hopper with no Joeys and the Tx/Rx rates were also about equal, the cumulative numbers about 4500000 each, which supports the above data.

If one were having sound/video problems I would expect the data rate to remain constant if the packets were not sent guaranteed.

I would expect that control/overhead data is sent guaranteed, but if people are having troubles with lockups that may not be the case.

Point of info - back in my working days I think the maximum allowed single bit error rate was about 1 bit a day in a proper 802.11 10Mb network so if these problems are related to network quality it's pretty bad. OTOH most users, including myself, have very few connectivity/quality problems with our systems.


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## StringFellow (Jan 6, 2012)

"356B" said:


> What is the consequence of Ethernet to both Hopper? Physically that is.


I removed Ethernet from one Hopper and MVR was much more stable as was the Hoppers in general. Just make sure you turn on bridging on the Hopper with the physical Ethernet connection (search for the exact procedure).


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## 356B (Oct 11, 2008)

StringFellow said:


> I removed Ethernet from one Hopper and MVR was much more stable as was the Hoppers in general. Just make sure you turn on bridging on the Hopper with the physical Ethernet connection (search for the exact procedure).


Thanks, but what's a MVR?


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

It's a MRV - multi room viewing


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## 356B (Oct 11, 2008)

P Smith said:


> It's a MRV - multi room viewing


Of course it is....thanks:lol:


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

I knew you knew it


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## xfoneguy (Feb 1, 2006)

"StringFellow" said:


> Do you have Ethernet connect to both Hoppers?


I have Ethernet only on the bedroom Hopper - everything else is MOCA only.


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## 356B (Oct 11, 2008)

P Smith said:


> I knew you knew it


I suspected but the most common use is "Motor Vehicle Report". :sure:


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## xfoneguy (Feb 1, 2006)

"oldengineer" said:


> I'm taking a stab at this but, since MoCA uses an ethernet packet format dropped or bad packets may be your problem. TCP requires a high level of checking and retransmission of control and maintenance packets but video is probably passed without checks since small errors probably wouldn't be seen. This is all just a guess on my part.
> 
> It would be interesting if you could look at your Tx and Rx bit rates and Packet information. In case you don't know bit rates can be found at
> Menu-Settings-Network Setup-Tests-View Counters and scrolling down to the bottom. You can identify your boxes by comparing the Mocax device id with the ethernet address on the box label.
> ...


That is an interesting idea - I'll have to see if I can figure out the counter thing.

Thanks for the ideas.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

356B said:


> I suspected but the most common use is "Motor Vehicle Report". :sure:


MRV? Moving recreational vehicle?


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

James Long said:


> MRV? Moving recreational vehicle?


I was thinking *M*ississippi *R*iver *V*alley might be more apt


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## patmurphey (Dec 21, 2006)

356B said:


> What is the consequence of Ethernet to both Hopper? Physically that is.


Physically, not the problem. Signal looping with 2 connections causing instability is the problem unless Hoppers are separated with an isolator. One connection is the correct hook up - to one Hopper with bridging enabled or one HIC connected with a tap into a Joey or a Hopper coax.


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## 356B (Oct 11, 2008)

patmurphey said:


> Physically, not the problem. Signal looping with 2 connections causing instability is the problem unless Hoppers are separated with an isolator. One connection is the correct hook up - to one Hopper with bridging enabled or one HIC connected with a tap into a Joey or a Hopper coax.


What kind of instability? I have both Hoppers connected with no obvious issues, at least none I'm aware of. I Sling off one, I have Joeys connected, one Joey per Hopper. I don't use the DishOnline services aside from Slinging. Joeys do show all Red in the MoCA menu, but MoCA bars are green, no HIC just hardwired Ethernet. 
I guess I could disconnect one and see what happens.


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