# How many 622s have you had?



## ebaltz (Nov 23, 2004)

How many 622s have you had to have (because of reboot issues or other problems)?


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Ok.. I think this poll needs some feedback to get a feel for what I think the poll is asking and remember this is the support forum so keep to the fact and avoid rock throwing and bashing.. I personally have had two.. My current and one that was replaced shortly after the install because of a spontaneous reboot issue. I am not seeing any issues on L4.49 regarding reboots. I marked two and i have had the units for as long as they have been out (Well 2months after they first appeared in the wild).


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## lkrupp (Apr 6, 2007)

As you can see by your poll results already the majority don't have 622 problems. It's very easy to get a skewed idea on forums. People with problems complain. People without problems don't.

For what it's worth I'm using the same 622 I got with installation over a year ago. Not even a single hiccup and I've been through all of the updates. L4.49 works fine and I have never experienced a spontaneous reboot. No HDMI issues either.


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## ebaltz (Nov 23, 2004)

lkrupp said:


> As you can see by your poll results already the majority don't have 622 problems. It's very easy to get a skewed idea on forums. People with problems complain. People without problems don't.
> 
> For what it's worth I'm using the same 622 I got with installation over a year ago. Not even a single hiccup and I've been through all of the updates. L4.49 works fine and I have never experienced a spontaneous reboot. No HDMI issues either.


huh? The majority of 7-10 users. Not even close to a decent sample size yet. This has to be up for a couple of days at least and maybe 50 people vote before we can see what trends there are.


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## ebaltz (Nov 23, 2004)

lkrupp said:


> As you can see by your poll results already the majority don't have 622 problems. It's very easy to get a skewed idea on forums. People with problems complain. People without problems don't.
> 
> For what it's worth I'm using the same 622 I got with installation over a year ago. Not even a single hiccup and I've been through all of the updates. L4.49 works fine and I have never experienced a spontaneous reboot. No HDMI issues either.


Well my second 622 worked for almost a year flawlessly, but soon after 4.49 it started rebooting and never stopped. 3rd box lasted about 2 weeks on L4.49, next box is a 722, we'll see how it does.


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

ebaltz said:


> huh? The majority of 7-10 users. Not even close to a decent sample size yet. This has to be up for a couple of days at least and maybe 50 people vote before we can see what trends there are.


You think one will be able to conclude *anything* with the way the "poll" is crafted. I have *two* 622's. One had to be replaced twice during the first month. The second has been good since the get go.

I will now select "4 or more." And you'll conclude what?


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## Miner (Oct 29, 2004)

I've stopped counting, but it is probably 5 or 6. First failure was HDMI, second spontaneous reboot, followed by a bad HD (DOA), then a continuous reboot after downloading update (also DOA), and another continuous reboot. My current unit's HDMI is OOC because of the 4.49 S/W, as a reboot fixed the problem every time, but I'm hanging onto it using component. It doesn't (hasn't yet) gone into spontaneous reboot).

Miner


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## Wildman63 (Dec 23, 2006)

ebaltz said:


> How many 622s have you had to have (because of reboot issues or other problems)?


First one (brand new) failed after about six months due to hard disk failure. Second one (present one, a refurb) has been working as advertised for about 13 months.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

Actually, the wording of the poll if taken as written will only be responded to by those who have had problems, not those whose units are working perfectly. A poll like this means and proves nothing. It is, however, a good example of why wording of a poll is important and that wording can pretty much produce any result desired.


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## Skates (Apr 15, 2004)

I had one of the first 622s. My HD set was connected by component. I just bought a new set and when I attempted to connect through HDMI, I discovered that the port is completely dead.

They're sending a replacement now and I'll have it Wednesday. Aside from that, I've had almost no problems with my current unit.

UPDATE 04/23/08 - Received my replacement receiver early this afternoon and was pleasantly surprised to find that they've upgraded me to a 722 - and the HDMI port works. If I get the same performance out of this unit as I got with the 622, I'll be happy. Time will tell.


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## ebaltz (Nov 23, 2004)

Richard King said:


> Actually, the wording of the poll if taken as written will only be responded to by those who have had problems, not those whose units are working perfectly. A poll like this means and proves nothing. It is, however, a good example of why wording of a poll is important and that wording can pretty much produce any result desired.


Whatever.

I find it pretty telling actually. No one is stopping people from saying they have had only one and had no problems with it. Maybe you can start your own poll and word it however you want. Perhaps ask how many people have had a 622 for over 1 year without any problems or replacements as opposed to people who have had more than one (because of problems) over that same time period.


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## ebaltz (Nov 23, 2004)

As it is by my count, of respondents there are 19 bad units and 24 that have not YET failed. Thats a pretty terrible average. LIke the X-Box. Failure rate should be less than 3% for it to be even considered marginally good. Preferably < 1%. From these informal results of respondents DIsh has a LONG LONG way to go on that. Or 55% have needed a replacement.


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## ericsdad (Sep 2, 2007)

I've only had 1. I got it in early 2006. I had to re-boot it 4 or 5 times the 1st few months I had it. It never re-booted on its own.
The HDMI has always worked flawlessly. I'm very happy with the 622.
I hope I didn't just jinx myself by saying this.


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## gweempose (Jun 11, 2006)

I acquired two 622's when they first came out. They are both still in use, and I haven't had a single problem with either of them.


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## rbyers (Jan 15, 2004)

Guys with 2 or more, like me and gweempose, can't vote in your poll since we would skew the results. Answering 2 would imply that there was a problem with 1. Now, I did get one of mine replaced after 2 years of service because my EHD would no longer playback. If I hadn't had an EHD, I would never have known there was a problem.


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## TulsaOK (Feb 24, 2004)

I had one ViP622 (original installation) but upgraded to ViP722 to resolve the External Hard Drive problem. No response or assistance from the [email protected] email address.


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## allargon (May 3, 2007)

I've had unexpected reboots maybe twice in the year I've had my 622. I still have my original 622 from a year ago. The HDMI and component outputs still work. My surround setup is in the bedroom, so I haven't tested the Toslink. All the TV2 outputs still work, too. It's loud and hot, but I don't keep it in an enclosed cabinet. Other than the silver color, I'm very happy with it.


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## pegazuz (Mar 11, 2008)

ebaltz said:


> How many 622s have you had to have (because of reboot issues or other problems)?


I had three in as many months and all were defective. I wouldn't accept anymore 622's since none of them seemed to work worth a darn so they replaced them with 722's and both of those are still working fine so far after three weeks.


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## bmcleod (May 13, 2006)

I've only had 1 but wish I'd figured out the HDMI doesn't work before the warranty ran out.


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## Charise (Jan 25, 2004)

I've had one 622 in use since February 2006. No problems, working HDMI, and I've been very satisfied.


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## Grandude (Oct 21, 2004)

Richard King said:


> Actually, the wording of the poll if taken as written will only be responded to by those who have had problems, not those whose units are working perfectly. A poll like this means and proves nothing. It is, however, a good example of why wording of a poll is important and that wording can pretty much produce any result desired.


I agree. This poll should be revised to include how many people have had no problems.
I personally have two. Bought the first one shortly after they came out and also a leased one now over a year or so old. NO, I repeat, NO problems with either one.
HDMI also works on both.


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## fmcomputer (Oct 14, 2006)

I'am on my third one, but my problem was with OTA. After contacting tech support they swapped them out. Still had same problem so I just lived with it. After numeriou software ugrades the OTA was fixed. This all happened about 18 months ago. I really belive that there was nothing wrong with the first unit. Have had no problems since software upgrades. I guess patience is a virtue


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## ebaltz (Nov 23, 2004)

As of right now with the numbers being 39 14 7 4 it means that there are:

79 units out there that are working, as of now.
But 40 units have been bad and returned for replacement.

So of 120 units produced, 40, or 1/3 or 33% of all of them have failed. That is a disastrous failure rate.

Yeah yeah unofficial blah blah blah poorly worded blah blah blah but that is still a lot of failures. Its the only thing I have ever owned that has had to be returned because it failed (before many many years of service) and I have had to replace 3 of them.

Draw your own conclusions. Claim that is acceptable, whatever. For me, 1 in a 1000 bad units is probably too many.


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

ebaltz said:


> Whatever.
> 
> I find it pretty telling actually. No one is stopping people from saying they have had only one and had no problems with it. ...


And the guy that has two and never had a problem with either would say "2" and you would count his reply as one bad one. lol


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## ebaltz (Nov 23, 2004)

SaltiDawg said:


> And the guy that has two and never had a problem with either would say "2" and you would count his reply as one bad one. lol


Then he didn't read the original post did he, since it said replaced because it was faulty, not how many you own. Duh.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Yep.. Salti.. that is why I suggested people to pipe in to give some feel and as for drawing any number conclusion and attaching it to this poll would be totally inaccurate in my opinion. Couple of things one needs to keep mind here when thinking about failure rates.

1) There have been a number reports of people getting refurb boxes that have issues on Day one of installation. The opinion of some are that these boxes are getting recycled and therefore would definitely skew failure numbers. 

2) Sample size here is tiny compared to the installed base and it has been said before, people with issues are most likely going to be hanging out here so the numbers will skew that direction. 

Though personally I agree with others in terms of how close to reality the numbers in the poll represents (most likely not even close), given some posts here I wanted to get better feel for how many people have replaced there boxes multiple times. I know the poll given the wording does not ask this question and results in situations like SaltiDawgs skewing the numbers toward higher failure rates but my hope here is to get a single place where people that have had multiple receivers replaced to post. Kinda of a single area to collect these experiences.


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## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

I have had to have one replaced (early "c" version). It was having the Black screen of death Screech problem that caused reboots. It might go weeks without a reboot than reboot 3 times in one night.

I also had another one a long time and one that i recently got. All 3 of my current machines work with only a few unexpected reboots.


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## fmcomputer (Oct 14, 2006)

Of the thousands and thousands of units in service how many people even know about this forum to cast their vote... Most of us that are on this forum are here to solve a problem or to complain..


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## Henry (Nov 15, 2007)

I've had my 622 for over a year. No problems.


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## oljim (Aug 6, 2002)

Got 1 when they first came out in Feb 2006, replace a 921 with second one Jan 2007 both still going with no problems.


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## Frodo301 (Sep 15, 2007)

Leased my 622 in March of last year with no serious problems. Friend at work got his shortly after they were released and has had no problems either.


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## Kricket (Nov 18, 2005)

im on my third 622 - the first two were faulty (well, this current unit still has its quirks - but nothing like the first two)

ps - i understood your poll


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## ebaltz (Nov 23, 2004)

fmcomputer said:


> Of the thousands and thousands of units in service how many people even know about this forum to cast their vote... Most of us that are on this forum are here to solve a problem or to complain..


That being the case, I say we close and ban all further polls because they must obviously be skewed.


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

ebaltz said:


> Then he didn't read the original post did he, since it said replaced because it was faulty, not how many you own. Duh.


And a Doh to your Duh. "How many 622s have you had?" is the question asked for the poll. The follow-up post adds "replaced" - and that would be read *after* responding to the polls. *You* have reached numerous "conclusions" to satisfy your apparent desires as to reliability.

*Doh lol.*


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## Kricket (Nov 18, 2005)

i, for one, believe the general dbstalk forum-goer is pretty intelligent - but apparently, a lot of people don't think they are smart enough to figure out this poll

i suggest we try to figure out the wording of a "proper" poll and start the whole thing over again (that way, at least we can determine the amount of 622 users on this forum who have had issues with their units - sure, this wont give us a perfect example of EVERY single 622 in existence - it will at least give us a number relating to the people who frequent the forums - and basic logic dictates that this must be SOMEHOW correlated to the general public)

---------------------------------------

how about something like this:

poll question:
"how many times have you had a 622 replaced?"

poll answer possibilities:
- 0 (i haven't had problems with my 622 receiver(s))
- 1 (i have received at least one replacement unit)
- 2 (i have received at least two replacement units)
- 3 (i have received at least three replacement units)
- 4+ (i have received four or more replacement units)

if no one has any objections, i say we start up a new poll (one that's easier to figure out for everyone in the forum)


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## Taco Lover (Jan 8, 2007)

Got a 622 last March and had no problems. Got a 722 in February only because I had Dish/LNB issues, and the tech said he'd rather replace everything just in case.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Kricket said:


> a lot of people don't think they are smart enough to figure out this poll


I don't think it is a problem with figuring out the poll. The problem I see with this poll and others like it is that placing a number on something with such long time duration of samples (Since the 622 was released) and then drawing general conclusions from it just is not valid in my opinion for the following reasons.

1) The duration is way to long. People having multiple 622s over the period of two years could run into a software update user error issue that resulted in a swap, a lightning strike causing a box swap, followed by 1 box swaps because of DOA referbs. The poll would just count this as 5 bad boxes where in my case each one is a unique experience and two of them our not a internal Dish issue.

2) Sample Size is way to0 low... We are talking about 91 samples and that is just way to low. Also, the people that wonder around here are power users. They will have higher levels of expectations, will work the boxes harder, and will be more quick to flag something as not right. If one was to take the data of this poll and extrapolate it to the general Dish HD DVR population, the expected result would be this site being constently flooded on a daily bases with new people wondering why their boxes are failing so frequently. I can assure you this is not the case..

3) Poll is too general... Everything is lumped into a single bucket.. Bad receiver bucket. I have said in the past with polls I have created is that they are fingers in the wind and most of my polls are based on a specific issues or a specific topic (How is your receiver doing after the update type polls). This poll covers all areas and therefore it is really hard to even draw a finger in the wind conclusion. In my book a failure that results after two weeks or 1 year is defintiely different than having two boxes replaced two days apart because they are DOA replacements. The first example has a strong indications of part failure where the other can be bad QA on referbs or point to a production issue.

As for another poll... I think this one is doing its job in terms of letting people pipe in as to their experiences on box swapping and that is why I made my initial comment. I think having a thread like this is important, however my personal opinion is that I feel that these numbers are an accurate representation of the experiences in the wild for the reasons above.

So since we currently have this poll, please continue to post your experiences here about multiple box swaps so they can be captured and I don't think another poll is necessary as it will segment these experiences into 2 polls and make it harder to track


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## lkrupp (Apr 6, 2007)

ebaltz said:


> That being the case, I say we close and ban all further polls because they must obviously be skewed.


That's actually a very good idea. Leave the polling, the statistical analysis and extrapolation of results to professionals who know what they're doing. Ad hoc, self-nominating polls are useless except to those who have a biased point to prove anyway.:nono2:


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## robo45h (Jul 8, 2003)

I had a 501 for years that had a hard drive fail once, and the replacement 501 was good for years too.

Then I decided to upgrade to HD and had one of the early 622 units. It worked flawlessly for years and never died -- but the HDMI port never worked from day 1. I didn't care until my stereo died and I upgraded to a new home theater system. At that point, the fun started. So far, my history looks like this:

501 -- worked for years until hard drive failed.
501 -- worked for years; never died. I decided to upgrade to HD.
622 -- worked for years; never died -- but HDMI never worked. When I wanted HDMI, they sent me a replacement 622.
622 -- refurb; HDMI died w/in a week (but receiver still worked component)
622 -- refurb; would randomly reboot itself off while watching. Other weirdness. I ensured there was a minimum of an inch clearance on each side of the DVR for airflow. Onsite technician dispatched.
722k w/OTA -- Installed by tech. Would randomly power itself off, but not while watching. Then it would of course miss DVR events while powered off.
722 -- Onsite tech hooked it up and immediately put it back in the box without even registering it with Dish -- the HDMI was DOA.
722k w/OTA -- It would just randomly freeze and go into continuous reboot until unplugged and allowed to cool down.
722k w/OTA -- Onsite visit. 90% of cabling inspected and many "bad or questionable" coax connectors replaced because they contained definite or possible shorts which could "cause receiver to overheat and reboot". Constant overheating and rebooting had apparently fried last 722k so new one installed. This one is the first that appears definitely new -- came in anti-static bag vs. clear plastic. Unfortunately, it seems to go into a continuous reboot sequence in the middle of the night -- perhaps at the 3am program guide download reboot? Was told that it was probably a heat issue, and to add "blocks" underneath at the four corners to allow more air to enter from the bottom. I did this. Rebooting continued. Was told I should move the DVR from inside the entertainment cabinet (which has no doors to obstruct airflow anyway). This was not an easy or good solution, so as a test, purchased and installed a notebook cooler base that contains two fans to force air into the unit from the bottom. 3am continuous reboot has not stopped. Changed "update" time from 3am to 6:30am as a test. Awaiting results. I do *not* like the noise of the notebook cooler that is quite noticeable in a quiet room when the TV and sound system are not in use.


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## Steve H (May 15, 2006)

I'm on my third right now but I think it's on the way out. Started making louder HD noise when the unit is "off".


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## Charise (Jan 25, 2004)

Just an update from my April 2008 post: still using the same 622 (installed in February 2006) with no issues.


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

At the risk of jinxing myself, I had only one that has been going for a year and a half! One 622 after having 10  921's and one 942.

Before hooking up the 622 I invested in a UPS/power conditioner. My A/C service is lousy (my incandescent bulbs flutter sometimes, that line fluctuation can't be good for any DVR).


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## RASCAL01 (Aug 2, 2006)

I am on my second 622. As the first died 2 weeks ago...hard drive died. Had the original for 4 yrs.


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## chainblu (May 15, 2006)

Technically I'm on my 2nd 622. About a year ago, I tried to activate what might have been the last remaining "virgin" 622. It heart-breakingly refused to activate. Dish came through and sent a refurb (at no cost) which has operated perfectly out of the box. The HDMI works fine and PQ is great.


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## cwc (Jan 28, 2007)

My first 622 just had a hard drive failure after three years of service.


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## rbyers (Jan 15, 2004)

I have two DVRs. One is from mid 06. The other is from Mar 06. It had an EHD issue that was used by Dish Engineering to fix many of our EHD problems. It was replaced in 2008. This replacement unit just failed and was replaced by a 722k. (BTW, I like the 722k a lot). I was never hassled about replacements and never actually had a loss of service. I'm very happy with these units.


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## TiVoPrince (May 10, 2007)

*Same*
original two. Noticing more random oddities andwierdness as they approach year two. Thinking replacement is not too far away...


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## Larry Caldwell (Apr 4, 2005)

Michael P said:


> Before hooking up the 622 I invested in a UPS/power conditioner. My A/C service is lousy (my incandescent bulbs flutter sometimes, that line fluctuation can't be good for any DVR).


That's my experience too. I have been using the same 622 since they first came out (2006?). For installation, I bought a high end surge suppressor that filters everything, including the coax to the dishes and the phone line. The only problems I have seen was when Dish downloaded buggy software, which was soon fixed.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

I have the same Refurbished one I've had since I started Dish service back in July of 2007.

I've had 3 Vip 612's though in 1 year of that time.
Then had enough of them so I got a 722k thats been good so far going on 1 year.


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## Henry (Nov 15, 2007)

Just checked the date with Dish to be sure ... my 622 is the original I ordered and was installed in March 2007. Never a problem with it that couldn't be explained by glitches/bugs in the current software.


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## GeeWhiz1 (Dec 6, 2005)

I answered 4 because I have 2 Vip622's. Both have been replaced once because the HDMI port broke.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

My Vip 622, has never had the HDMI issue either.


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## tsmacro (Apr 28, 2005)

Going on 2 1/2 years now with one 622, no probs with HDMI port, no probs with having it hooked up to hsi via ethernet port, no probs using it to record from both sat tuners and the ota tuner at the same time. It's been a rock solid box for me, couldn't be happier!


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## etzeppy (Feb 16, 2007)

I've had 2 then switched to the 722K. My first 622 lasted several years but the 2nd one only lasted a few months.


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