# For everyone switching to Dish from DirecTV



## Chrismon1001 (Apr 3, 2011)

Ok, so this is my first experiences with Dish after a few days of use after install.

First thing is I will say why I left DirecTV again was because of the horrible software that is in the Genie 2 with a ton of glitches that never seem to get resolved. Plus I suffered from the random pixelation and issues with random momentary cut out and freezes. I had my entire system replaced twice to try to solve the issue to no avail. The last tech that came out said the best thing to do is for me to switch to Dish. So I scheduled an order for Dish to be installed, payed extra to guarantee a Hopper 3 with 2 Joey 3s. I scheduled my install really far out from my order to see if DirecTV fixes anything. When I got the email saying my bill was going up 10 more dollars over the weekend however I instantly called Dish and moved my install and had them install early and paid the ETF on DirecTV and did a full cancellation. There was no way I was going to pay $10 more dollars a month to a company that cannot and will not even fix their service or programming. Also for the record I have little regrets switching because of that.

Now for a comparison between the 2 companies:
Bill - I had everything on DirecTV, with this price increase my bill would had been $293 a month.
Now with my Dish Network, I also have everything and for the first month I'll be paying $10.05, followed by month 2-3 I'll be paying 110.05, months 4-6 $149.06 and months 7-24 $159.06. Month 25 month and onward if pricing stays the same will be around 178.03. At which time I will reevaluate if I will still be keeping Sat TV service in my new house being built which will be completed around that time.

Hardware - The Hopper 3 is the best and most stable DVR I have ever used, plus the fastest. The voice search is incredible and accurate. Very happy with the customization options and the look and feel. The remote is amazing. With a weighted feel and comfortable. Works well. No issues. The Netflix integration is fantastic I find myself finding stuff on Netflix easier and I find my self using the on demand more because how well everything is integrated. Love this hardware. The only thing that kinda made me mad was the fact that my Hopper 3 came with a big scratch on top of it. Even though I specifically paid for a new one. I was told by the tech that he has seen that a lot lately with new from factory units, and he isn't allowed to get another one off the truck for my order, but he said my scratch is actually less than most peoples he has seen.

Picture Quality - For reference, my main viewing screen is a 70" LG TV fully 10 point ISF calibrated by a licensed and trained ISF calibrator with re-calibration done every year as colors drift. DirecTV has no competition on picture quality... comparing Dish to DirecTV is almost like comparing a DVD to a Blu-Ray and I stand by that statement. I notice vastly more artifacts, and aliasing issues now, than EVER before. Fast motion you can visibly see the large amount of compression. The picture on Dish is always slightly soft and doesn't feel fully focused because of this. I am on the eastern arc, for reference. My locals (Metro Atlanta) look "alright" still nothing compared to DirecTV. My RSNs however feel almost unwatchable and will be using an online stream to watch them now if I can. My first seating position is roughly 8 foot from the screen. Massive difference in quality, my next seat is 10 foot about the same quality difference followed by 13 foot and 17 foot I don't notice the compression as bad and the picture finally looks more sharp that said the aliasing is still noticeable... With RSN still being borderline unwatchable. Looking like they are only feeding it very little bandwidth compared to my super sharp and crisp RSNs on DirecTV. Dish is not for sports period IMHO.

Guide - OK the channel order on Dish network and all the random spam ads and stuff on the guide make the guide feel cluttered and very unorganized, I find my self just voice jumping channel to channel to see whats on because everything is so scattered on Dish.

Install - Other than remote everything feels cheaper with Dish... My Hopper 3 weighs nothing compared to the Genie 2 even though it is much bigger in size, which means probably not very heavy heat sinks that is back up by the amount of heat the unit is putting out, Sat feels like thinner metal, first 2 LNBs the tech got out of new boxes had cracks in them ETC... Not really a big issue on my part but since I'll be paying the service calls maybe it will be my issue eventually.

Final Thoughts - For the price I pay in comparison, I guess its apples for apples. You are not getting quality as much with Dish as you really are price. Some regrets yes. Picture is not great, its on par for the price I guess, but not impressive. I am saving a lot. The on demand is better on Dish for finding stuff, but still not really as sharp though. The 4k on demand on Dish is about the same as the 1080p on demand on DirecTV. I also compared to DirecTV Now and even DirecTV Now is BLOWING Dish out of the water on Picture Quality use the same DVD to Blu-ray comparison again. I didn't go with DirecTV Now because it kept giving me the wrong locals and RSNs because my IP is locked in SC for some reason and my ISP and DirecTV cannot seem to get it fixed. I will keep the service for 2 years and either try DirecTV streaming or cut the cord. If your TV is of decent size, then just don't switch if you care about quality.... Just don't. You are getting what you are paying for especially if you have a home theater which I do; with a 200" screen. We installed the service into that system and it was bad.... no other way of saying it. I moved the box elsewhere. Very much like my testing with U-Verse. Bottom line is DirecTV is for serious viewing and sports and Dish is for saving money getting something that reliably works with the incredible and fabulous Hopper 3, and for more of the causal viewer. I can tell I'll be watch less with Dish because of the lack luster picture quality, will probably be for more casual/event and news viewing.

Neither service is perfect.

Oh for the record its raining today, and I hardly got rain fade on DirecTV and it appears to be the same way with Dish.

All of this is my opinion, please don't start whining about my opinion below. This is for people looking to make the switch more than the people who already have Dish. It is meant to be a tool for them to help make a choice. Hope this helps.

Edit: Corrected Pricing


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## n0qcu (Mar 23, 2002)

You can change the channel order in the settings for the guide.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Chrismon1001 said:


> You are getting what you are paying for especially if you have a home theater which I do; with a 200" screen.


I would try 4k joey if your projector does UHD


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

I'm trying to figure out how your DIRECTV bill was $293 for what looks like 3 TV's based on what you said you had installed for Dish. I looked on the DIRECTV site and months 13-24 which don't have any discounts was $202 for the Premier package.


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## BreadDawg (Sep 12, 2016)

The picture quality point is interesting. I had the H3 when I was with Dish and saw little to no difference with DTV. Although, it sounds like you have a nicer tv than me. I've got a a middle of the road 55in Vizio so thay may play in to things. I agree with you 100% about the pixelation and cutouts-i never experienced it with Dish-zero.


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## mrinker (Jul 27, 2016)

Your post is 100% accurate from my own exact experience, especially PQ. I left Dish after only a few months and stayed with DTV because of PQ being better on DTV.


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## ericknolls (Aug 18, 2013)

RAD said:


> I'm trying to figure out how your DIRECTV bill was $293 for what looks like 3 TV's based on what you said you had installed for Dish. I looked on the DIRECTV site and months 13-24 which don't have any discounts was $202 for the Premier package.


Is that $202 price without the $15 dollar DVR fee, $10 HD fee, $3 dollar whole home fee, $8 dollar RSN fee and a whole host of taxes? Oops forgot one - 1 room free and two rooms at $7 dollars a piece. These Telco TV, Cable and Sat Companies should work for the Mob with these prices and increases. It's rediculious. Did did you think anything would change with sweet tooth for money AT&T?

Sent from my XT1609 using Tapatalk


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

ericknolls said:


> Is that $202 price without the $15 dollar DVR fee, $10 HD fee, $3 dollar whole home fee, $8 dollar RSN fee and a whole host of taxes? Oops forgot one - 1 room free and two rooms at $7 dollars a piece. These Telco TV, Cable and Sat Companies should work for the Mob with these prices and increases. It's rediculious. Did did you think anything would change with sweet tooth for money AT&T?
> 
> Sent from my XT1609 using Tapatalk


According to the breakdown on their web site, except for the tax part, that was what they said the month charge would be. Why don't you do it yourself and see?


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## reubenray (Jun 27, 2002)

Besides the the PQ concern another concern for me is the East/West arc setup. I plan on traveling the country in my RV, but with the chance I cannot get the correct satellites I will have to lean toward Directv.


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## Microphone (Jan 30, 2007)

I'm going to believe you on Dish and after seeing a friend who has Comcast with really decent TVs etc, you are spot on in you get what you pay for. I have Comcast internet and it's my only choice and if I bundled everything I'd save a mint, but what you said is dead on--- "Bottom line is DirecTV is for serious viewing and sports." PQ and sports. I imagine my Dish experience would be the same as your's.


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## reubenray (Jun 27, 2002)

Chrismon1001 said:


> Ok, so this is my first experiences with Dish after a few days of use after install.
> 
> First thing is I will say why I left DirecTV again was because of the horrible software that is in the Genie 2 with a ton of glitches that never seem to get resolved. Plus I suffered from the random pixelation and issues with random momentary cut out and freezes. I had my entire system replaced twice to try to solve the issue to no avail. The last tech that came out said the best thing to do is for me to switch to Dish. So I scheduled an order for Dish to be installed, payed extra to guarantee a Hopper 3 with 2 Joey 3s. I scheduled my install really far out from my order to see if DirecTV fixes anything. When I got the email saying my bill was going up 10 more dollars over the weekend however I instantly called Dish and moved my install and had them install early and paid the ETF on DirecTV and did a full cancellation. There was no way I was going to pay $10 more dollars a month to a company that cannot and will not even fix their service or programming. Also for the record I have little regrets switching because of that.
> 
> ...


Why did your bill go up each month? I thought new subscribers costs were locked in for two years.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

reubenray said:


> Besides the the PQ concern another concern for me is the East/West arc setup. I plan on traveling the country in my RV, but with the chance I cannot get the correct satellites I will have to lean toward Directv.


As an RV'er - you can get the tailgator portable dishes that work with the Wally's, or you can get a tripod setup for a dish and have both Eastern and Western Arc LNB' for it. This would depend on what locals you want - some have HD on both Arcs, some have both SD and HD on west, some have SD locals on West, but HD on East, and a few ( mostly smaller Markets) have only SD locals available (Rapid City SD comes to mind along with a few other smaller markets). The summation is that with Dish, when you pull into a new locals area, you need to call them to change your markets.

I'd suggest doing a PM conversation with NYDutch - he can give you a good handle on what you would be looking at as an RVer with Dish.


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## reubenray (Jun 27, 2002)

I did some searching and the Dish Tailgater Pro Premium satellite antenna will work with both East and West satellites. Before I get in touch with Dish or NYDutch will I have to buy a separate programming package for this or can I use my package for the house if I decide to switch.


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## NYDutch (Dec 28, 2013)

reubenray said:


> I did some searching and the Dish Tailgater Pro Premium satellite antenna will work with both East and West satellites. Before I get in touch with Dish or NYDutch will I have to buy a separate programming package for this or can I use my package for the house if I decide to switch.


Ok, no need to PM me, I'm here now... 

The only auto aiming dome style dish that receives the full eastern and western arc satellite compliment is the Winegard Pathway X2. The Dish/King Tailgater Pro Premium only receives the 3 western arc satellites at 110, 119, and 129, or it can receive 110, 119, and the eastern arc 61.5 satellite. It does not receive the eastern arc 72.7 and 77 sats. For RV or tailgating use, that means you still need a view of at least part of the western arc as well as the 61.5 eastern arc sat in order to get the full programming compliment if the 129 sat can't be seen. If you switch your house to Dish, you can receive the same package in your RV, but if you change the locals to your RV location, they'll also change for the receiver(s) in the house, and may not be seen at all if you're RV is beyond the home spot beam limits. The same holds true for DTV.


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## reubenray (Jun 27, 2002)

NYDutch said:


> Ok, no need to PM me, I'm here now...
> 
> The only auto aiming dome style dish that receives the full eastern and western arc satellite compliment is the Winegard Pathway X2. The Dish/King Tailgater Pro Premium only receives the 3 western arc satellites at 110, 119, and 129, or it can receive 110, 119, and the eastern arc 61.5 satellite. It does not receive the eastern arc 72.7 and 77 sats. For RV or tailgating use, that means you still need a view of at least part of the western arc as well as the 61.5 eastern arc sat in order to get the full programming compliment if the 129 sat can't be seen. If you switch your house to Dish, you can receive the same package in your RV, but if you change the locals to your RV location, they'll also change for the receiver(s) in the house, and may not be seen at all if you're RV is beyond the home spot beam limits. The same holds true for DTV.


I wish I could find out where the borders are that decide the Eastern or Western arc satellites. I very seldom change my locals while traveling mainly for the reason it would change the locals at home. Are the Wally receivers capable of receiving the locals via my antenna on my RV, plus will they be able to record them?


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## NYDutch (Dec 28, 2013)

There are spot beam maps available here for the various DMA's (Designated Market Areas). Click on the state and closest city that you're interested in, and then the transponders listed for the eastern or western arc sat channels to see the footprint map. Both arcs are mostly receivable throughout the lower 48 with a clear view of the sky in the right direction. The western arc 129 sat is almost impossible to "see" in the northeastern corner of Maine though, due to the low elevation and fringe footprint.

The area locals are available OTA on the Wally if it's equipped with the optional USB OTA adapter. And the OTA programs can be recorded...


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## reubenray (Jun 27, 2002)

NYDutch said:


> There are spot beam maps available here for the various DMA's (Designated Market Areas). Click on the state and closest city that you're interested in, and then the transponders listed for the eastern or western arc sat channels to see the footprint map. Both arcs are mostly receivable throughout the lower 48 with a clear view of the sky in the right direction. The western arc 129 sat is almost impossible to "see" in the northeastern corner of Maine though, due to the low elevation and fringe footprint.
> 
> The area locals are available OTA on the Wally if it's equipped with the optional USB OTA adapter. And the OTA programs can be recorded...


Thanks for the info. Two areas I don't plan on going to is the far NE corner (Maine, NH, Vermont) and the far West coast (California, Oregon, Washington). How will Dish work in the lower areas of Canada (mainly between Michigan and New York)?

The last statement concerning the OTA's were a question I was going to ask this morning.


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

I don't see why Dish would not work in Southern Canada, being so close to the border.


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## reubenray (Jun 27, 2002)

From what I have read from this thread if I switch to dish I would get the following equipment.

For the House with a Dish Installed Dish: I am assuming all of this will be free. I will also have to check how the Hopper 3 will connect to my existing A/V setup and in wall wiring.

Hopper 3 for Living Room
Joey for the Bedroom

For the Motorhome: I will have to buy all of this.

Winegard Pathway X2 Portable Antenna
Wally receiver with external hard drive

I will still need to research if the Pathway will work with my tripod connection and my entertainment center wiring on my motorhome. I believe the Pathway only has one coaxial cable output. Also will I be able to used a hard drive (650 GB) that I already have with the Wally and a hard drive enclosure. One of neighbors has the Pathway, so I need to get with him about his setup.


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## NYDutch (Dec 28, 2013)

Dish satellite coverage reaches well into Canada, as well as Alaska, Hawaii, the Caribbean, and Mexico. The legality of receiving Dish or DTV signals outside of the US and its territories is questionable, but rarely enforced.


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## reubenray (Jun 27, 2002)

I think I have enough info to figure up an estimate of what Dish will cost me vs Directv if I do not get any discounts. Directv will be around $131 a month without discounts. I am paying $77 with discounts. Below is what my estimates are for Dish.

Programming - $80 for two years ($90 after two years)
Hopper 3 fee - 10 (will the receiver be free)
Joey fee - 7 (will the receiver be free)
Wally fee - 7 ($400 for antenna and receiver for my RV)
Taxes, etc - 6?
Total $110 What else am I missing?


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## zippyfrog (Jul 14, 2010)

I can definitely agree with you on the PQ issue, especially the RSN. Here in Chicago, NBC Sportsnet Chicago is extremely soft and lots of artifacts. I have to sit a good deal away from my TV for it to look bearable. But it is better than before the RSN's went HD 24/7 and we had to watch a 16:9 SD squished channel. I always found ESPN to be very similar to DirecTV as well as other channels such as Disney Channel, Cartoon Network, etc. I always thought that the channels that were broadcast in 1080i always looked worst. During the summer there were a couple of times the Cubs were on ESPN as well as NBC Sports Chicago at the same time, and the ESPN broadcast was much more clear and crisp than the RSN. Definitely less artifacts on ESPN.


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## zippyfrog (Jul 14, 2010)

The other thing with Dish is I enjoy saving $12 a month because I can get all my locals via my antenna. Not paying the $12 for locals is a great thing Dish offers. Overall I am very happy with Dish and wouldn't switch to DirecTV.


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## reubenray (Jun 27, 2002)

zippyfrog said:


> The other thing with Dish is I enjoy saving $12 a month because I can get all my locals via my antenna. Not paying the $12 for locals is a great thing Dish offers. Overall I am very happy with Dish and wouldn't switch to DirecTV.


How does this work? I have an OTA antenna setup. Will I still be able to record the locals using my antenna. Also is the standard programming cost already include the locals?


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Chrismon1001 said:


> Picture Quality - For reference, my main viewing screen is a 70" LG TV fully 10 point ISF calibrated by a licensed and trained ISF calibrator with re-calibration done every year as colors drift. DirecTV has no competition on picture quality... *comparing Dish to DirecTV is almost like comparing a DVD to a Blu-Ray* and I stand by that statement. I notice vastly more artifacts, and aliasing issues now, than EVER before. Fast motion you can visibly see the large amount of compression. The picture on Dish is always slightly soft and doesn't feel fully focused because of this. I am on the eastern arc, for reference. My locals (Metro Atlanta) look "alright" still nothing compared to DirecTV. My RSNs however feel almost unwatchable and will be using an online scream to watch them now if I can. My first seating position is roughly 8 foot from the screen. Massive difference in quality, my next seat is 10 foot about the same quality difference followed by 13 foot and 17 foot I don't notice the compression as bad and the picture finally looks more sharp that said the aliasing is still noticeable... With RSN still being borderline unwatchable. Looking like they are only feeding it very little bandwidth compared to my super sharp and crisp RSNs on DirecTV. Dish is not for sports period IMHO.


Thank you! That puts any thoughts of switching to rest for me. I could not put up with that. Great post!

Rich


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## zippyfrog (Jul 14, 2010)

reubenray said:


> How does this work? I have an OTA antenna setup. Will I still be able to record the locals using my antenna. Also is the standard programming cost already include the locals?


I have a receiver that has a satellite input and an OTA input. One cable goes directly to my antenna, the other goes directly to the Dish. I subscribe to the Top 250 package for $87.99, but the advertised price is $99.99 with locals included. Once you go into your account, you have the option to remove the locals and save $12.00 a month. I am not sure on what happens with a new account and the promotions associated with it - if there are any restrictions to removing locals. I have been with Dish for 9 years.

The locals when connected to an antenna appear in the program guide just as if they were coming from the satellite. My receiver (VIP211k) is a little older so I am not sure what it looks like with the new interface, but the only difference is the OTA channels for me appear as yellow instead of blue like the satellite channels do. I can record locals with no issue. Just select the program and record. Not all sub channels have guide data though, but the main ones do.


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## Chrismon1001 (Apr 3, 2011)

P Smith said:


> I would try 4k joey if your projector does UHD


yes I have the 4k Joey 3's and when you stretch Dish to 200" it doesnt matter the model its not watchable as someone sensitize to artifacts.



reubenray said:


> Why did your bill go up each month? I thought new subscribers costs were locked in for two years.


Promotions ended but keeping the programming. Base package is locked for 2 years but add-ons are not. Some expire in 3 months some in 6 months etc...


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## Chrismon1001 (Apr 3, 2011)

RAD said:


> I'm trying to figure out how your DIRECTV bill was $293 for what looks like 3 TV's based on what you said you had installed for Dish. I looked on the DIRECTV site and months 13-24 which don't have any discounts was $202 for the Premier package.


Add-ons.


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## DR2420 (Jun 12, 2012)

Chrismon1001 said:


> Ok, so this is my first experiences with Dish after a few days of use after install.
> 
> First thing is I will say why I left DirecTV again was because of the horrible software that is in the Genie 2 with a ton of glitches that never seem to get resolved. Plus I suffered from the random pixelation and issues with random momentary cut out and freezes. I had my entire system replaced twice to try to solve the issue to no avail. The last tech that came out said the best thing to do is for me to switch to Dish. So I scheduled an order for Dish to be installed, payed extra to guarantee a Hopper 3 with 2 Joey 3s. I scheduled my install really far out from my order to see if DirecTV fixes anything. When I got the email saying my bill was going up 10 more dollars over the weekend however I instantly called Dish and moved my install and had them install early and paid the ETF on DirecTV and did a full cancellation. There was no way I was going to pay $10 more dollars a month to a company that cannot and will not even fix their service or programming. Also for the record I have little regrets switching because of that.
> 
> ...


Sounds like my post on another thread here a few weeks ago was pretty accurate then..


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Chrismon1001 said:


> yes I have the 4k Joey 3's and when you stretch Dish to 200" it doesnt matter the model its not watchable as someone sensitize to artifacts.


I know a term "sensitive to some medicine", but "artifacts" ? 

If such thing is so visible, would you create a gallery of photos to share with us ?


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## reubenray (Jun 27, 2002)

Chrismon1001 said:


> yes I have the 4k Joey 3's and when you stretch Dish to 200" it doesnt matter the model its not watchable as someone sensitize to artifacts.
> 
> Promotions ended but keeping the programming. Base package is locked for 2 years but add-ons are not. Some expire in 3 months some in 6 months etc...


As for as I know I will not get any add-ons. I will have to find a link for them to verify. I don't have any movie channels or sports networks currently with Directv.


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## patmurphey (Dec 21, 2006)

n0qcu said:


> You can change the channel order in the settings for the guide.


You can also limit the banner to just notifications, NO spam.

BTW, the PQ bashing here is grossly exaggerated. And, if you have a 4K TV the TV upscaling gives an excellent picture, and Dish's SD is actually watchable, even zoomed to fill the screen.


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## compnurd (Apr 23, 2007)

patmurphey said:


> You can also limit the banner to just notifications, NO spam.
> 
> BTW, the PQ bashing here is grossly exaggerated. And, if you have a 4K TV the TV upscaling gives an excellent picture, and Dish's SD is actually watchable, even zoomed to fill the screen.


 Not necessarily. A good portion of 4K TVs have none to ****ty 4K upscaling


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## reubenray (Jun 27, 2002)

compnurd said:


> Not necessarily. A good portion of 4K TVs have none to ****ty 4K upscaling


My Sony does 4K upscaling good enough that I can't tell any difference between upscaled or actual 4k.


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

reubenray said:


> My Sony does 4K upscaling good enough that I can't tell any difference between upscaled or actual 4k.


Do you have a UHD player? "4K" on satellite & streaming isn't actual 4K. 15Mbps or so vs. 108Mbps. UHD on a 4K TV vs. HD or satellite / streaming 4K is like night and day.


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## reubenray (Jun 27, 2002)

SledgeHammer said:


> Do you have a UHD player? "4K" on satellite & streaming isn't actual 4K. 15Mbps or so vs. 108Mbps. UHD on a 4K TV vs. HD or satellite / streaming 4K is like night and day.


No, I don't> This was comparing 4K being streamed using Amazon Prime or Vudu.


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## BlueRidgePro (Nov 12, 2010)

I've been switching back & forth between Dish and DTV for years. I've got both dishes on the roof. Every 2 years I get free install, brand new equipment, and lower rates for the 1st year. Saves a surprising amount of money as bills creep higher during the contract.

While I notice small differences, all in all the two providers are about equal. I"m currently with Dish and my only complaint is the dis-functional program search. My 2 years runs out soon, so I'll be switching again. Stupid to have to do this, but the lack of concern for existing customers makes it advantageous.


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## vaturkey (Jan 5, 2019)

New member. Will throw in my 2 cents. I have both Dish Network and Direct TV and can do a direct comparison of picture quality. IMO based on looking at my 65" Sony flat screen Direct TV blows dish out of the water on picture quality and its not close. We can bounce from one to the other and the picture on Direct TV is always sharper. If it wasn't for the fact I have 3 Dish Network receivers and would require the same on Direct TV, I'd make the switch. PS. The reason I have both is I am hooked on NFL Sunday ticket and that's only available on Direct TV. However, watching Red Zone feed on both live and switching between the two its readily apparent which one has a stronger signal.


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## reubenray (Jun 27, 2002)

After making a few adjustments in the TV setting the Dish PQ is just as good as the Directv PQ on my Sony 75" 4K tv.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

vaturkey said:


> We can bounce from one to the other and the picture on Direct TV is always sharper


that's just your wording &#8230;
try to prove by posting pictures


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

I am thinking of getting Dish or Directv, this would be important information. Picture is important to me on my 130 inch projector screen.

To test
Step 1. pause a channel on both something with the same logo or something like one of the news channels
Step 2. Using your smart phone and take picture of station logo at 2 feet from screen. Do this for both channel
Step 3. Post the photo

We can then count the pixels and look for artifacts around the square edges of the photo.

Step 4. Repeat but this time with moving or live TV but do the same corner were the logo is, reason is pausing can also lead to artifact

Let us compare please.

We need to do this scientifically, just saying it is better is not proof.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

Doing it this way - do you REALLY think this method would resolve the issue ?

The only way to TRULY resolve it is to delete / turn off ALL scaling done by any equipment - TV, receiver, any standalone scaler - and display everything in 1:1 mode. And that is going to be completely impossible.


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

Since that method is impossible this is the next best thing.
Take the photos zoom in on using a PC or Mac and count pixels or look for artifacts.
This debate has been going on for years.
We need facts and proof. I offer up this method that anyone can do with both services (most likely the day or week they are switching).
I am open to other ideas.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

And when/if someone does this test, the debate will still be going on. 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

As I said - you have to shutdown ALL scaling on ALL equipment and display in a true 1:1 mode - pixel coming in from receiver => output on screen with no changes in size or number of pixels. Dish receivers - you set the desired output - 480i/p, 720P, or 1080i/p. I don't know about DirectTV receivers - but I bet it's the same.

I have a 32 inch TV that can display in 1:1 mode - but it only has a screen size of 1368 pixels x 768 pixels - anything larger than a 720p input will be scaled. (not to mention anything the Dish receivers are doing).


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Two feet from the screen is a ridiculous viewing distance.


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## patmurphey (Dec 21, 2006)

It's simple, I wouldn't give up my Hopper3 for anything offered by direcTV for a small improvement in PQ. If you have a decent 4k TV, PQ from Dish is amazing with the upscaling.


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## dishrich (Apr 23, 2002)

scooper said:


> I don't know about DirectTV receivers - but I bet it's the same.


ALL current DirecTV HD receivers made since day 1, including all H/HR models & HD-Tivo's, have had native P/T.
(All other Tivo's do as well) I've always kept all of my receivers on native P/T, including an MPEG4 Moto (NOT X1) cable box from Comcast, that even have it. DISH is the ONLY receivers I have that have NEVER had it, which is & is still STUPID to this day!


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## ericknolls (Aug 18, 2013)

One thing you will hate when you switch from DIRECTV to Dish is all those yearly retransmission disputes. They have too many of them. I have to admit that DIRECTV has them too. They are mostly local station carriage disputes. Dish are those and just about any of the channel's they carry. No HBO and Cinemax currently. Not good!

Sent from my XT1609 using Tapatalk


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

Two Feet is not for your Eyes, it is for the camera in the smart phone so we can all count Pixels and Artifacts.
If you have a better idea for how we can get some proof to set this 10 year long question to rest, I am open to ideas. It needs to be something a normal customer can do while they are switching and still have both services so we can compare at the same time.



James Long said:


> Two feet from the screen is a ridiculous viewing distance.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

scottchez said:


> Two Feet is not for your Eyes, it is for the camera in the smart phone so we can all count Pixels and Artifacts.
> If you have a better idea for how we can get some proof to set this 10 year long question to rest, I am open to ideas. It needs to be something a normal customer can do while they are switching and still have both services so we can compare at the same time.


I told you - you CAN'T get the scaling out completely, at least on the Dish receiver. It's not going to work.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

PQ is not about pixels and artifacts counted at a ridiculously close distance. What PQ is best will ALWAYS be a subjective opinion based answer. People are not watching their TVs from two feet away on pause with multi-megipixel resolution cameras. It is not a real life comparison.

One of my favorite paintings is "A Sunday Afternoon on the Island of La Grande Jatte" by Georges Seurat. It was painted in 1884 using a technique known as pointillism. Mr Seurat used dots of color to create his masterpiece. I have been fortunate enough to see this masterpiece in person at the Art Institute of Chicago. Even as a still picture, this painting is not intended to be viewed from two feet away with a magnifying glass (electronic or manual). It is intended to be viewed from a distance.

If the task of DISH, DIRECTV, XFINITY and other multi-channel television distributors was to provide the best quality for a still picture they would engineer their systems to deliver still pictures. But television isn't about still images - it is about motion. That fact is why some networks have chosen less pixels per frame in exchange for more frames per second for high motion sports coverage. We could argue for another 10 years over whether 720p or 1080i is a better image.

If you want to give an award for best still picture as viewed from 2ft away on a 16 mega-pixel camera you are ignoring what TV is intended to provide. Motion.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

James Long said:


> PQ is not about pixels and artifacts counted at a ridiculously close distance. What PQ is best will ALWAYS be a subjective opinion based answer. People are not watching their TVs from two feet away on pause with multi-megipixel resolution cameras. It is not a real life comparison.


Thank you , you beat me to this statement. It's the people who think they have eagle eyes and/or absurdly large displays who think the pixel count is important.

Got some more news for them - OTA broadcasts (even a station that has NO subchannels and dedicates their full bit allocation to a 1080i broadcast) is STILL showing a compressed a/v stream. It MIGHT be possible that the latest generation blu ray players / streaming devices ARE sending 4k A/V to your TV. But that is implying that everything in the path supports that resolution.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

I still remember the 80s when large screen rear projection TVs were the craze. I also remember projecting VHS and laser discs on a huge movie screen in lecture halls in college. What I remember most about that era was the people who would have fought until their last breath to argue just how good their picture quality was. I assume that the introduction of HD took that last breath away. (I also remember the Betamax vs VHS debates.)


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

So in other words what everyone is saying is there is not way for a normal customer to measure the PQ and compare, hence the reason this debate has been going on for 10 years.
Everyone just says it cant be done, I at least offered one idea (I also said take a photo on the live TV also).

Any ideas, or do we just called it , cant be done.
Its easy to say it cant be done, harder to offer ideas on how to solve the question at hand.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

scottchez said:


> So in other words what everyone is saying is there is not way for a normal customer to measure the PQ and compare, hence the reason this debate has been going on for 10 years.
> Everyone just says it cant be done, I at least offered one idea (I also said take a photo on the live TV also).
> 
> Any ideas, or do we just called it , cant be done.
> Its easy to say it cant be done, harder to offer ideas on how to solve the question at hand.


I'm supporting you... at least pictures would be starting factual point in the debacles !


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## BlueRidgePro (Nov 12, 2010)

Silly debate. Sound like a grade school yard. "My picture is better than your picture..." If you're happy with the picture you get, watch it.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

silly comments... without metrics MPEG compression does NOT EXIST !!!


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

P Smith said:


> I'm supporting you... at least pictures would be starting factual point in the debacles !


Facts are facts, but are they helpful facts? You and I could quote thousands of facts that have nothing to do with PQ. Irrelevant facts don't solve the issue.



P Smith said:


> silly comments... without metrics MPEG compression does NOT EXIST !!!


We don't need to measure something to prove that it exists.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

James Long said:


> We don't need to measure something to prove that it exists.


Excellent !!!!!


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

I think we are good then, Thank you.
I am sure the debate will show up again in an other year, always does.


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## Pony172 (Jan 9, 2019)

To the OP, Spot on post. I have had the exact same feelings and experience after a month with Dish. Will be using the $300 gift card to pay the ETF. DTV will give me another $200 and new equipment to switch back. Problem solved.


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