# AM21 and the R22



## dodge boy

O.K. I was wondering ever since I got my R22 if the AM21 would actually work with it. I just thought I’d share my findings with the forum. First you might ask what is the AM21. It is an Over The Air (OTA) tuner that connects to the HD DVRs and allows you to receive and record your local ATSC (Digital) channels. Second you might ask why would you want them? Well the access to Sub-Channels and neighboring locals (if you live where you can pick up a secondary set of locals) and being able to DVR them.

This is my first attempt at doing such a write up so please bare with me……

Let me start off by saying I ordered one and paid for it, $52.75 total. This was not a free bee from DirecTv. I assumed all the risk up front. I ordered it from DirecTv on a Thursday night. I received it that Saturday so the shipping was excellent through FED-EX.


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## dodge boy

Let’s skip forward to setting it up. That’s pretty straight forward. It has it’s own electrical “pig tail” that plugs into the R22. You remove the power plug from the R22 and plug the pig tail from the AM21 into the plug on the back of the R22. Then I hooked up the USB cable from the AM21 to the back of the R22. Then I plugged the power lug that I removed from the R22 into the inlet on the back of the AM21. Everything reset and it booted up and gave me a screen to set up the antenna.
It found my primary zip code from the R22 and it asked for a secondary one. I entered it and it went to the “Receiving Info” screen. It let me select my locals but would not view them. I got a message I needed to activate my DirecTv service. After playing with it, rebooting it, resetting the antenna settings and still not being able to access the channels I made a call to DirecTv and activated HD access. I figured that this is why it wasn’t working. Well after that I could access my OTA channels with it. Since I wasn’t using it for HD and $10.00 a month is a little much for OTA I called back and canceled my HD access. (This was Sunday) The AM21 continued to work all that day but got an update during the night the “shut it off”. There are however people now who have HD access and the R22 and have put AM21s on them and they work fine.


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## dodge boy

The reason I posted this is to hopefully draw enough support for it to work without the HD access so that as February 2009 approaches DirecTv will drop the need for HD access for these to work, so that people will have access to their sub channels and integrate them into their DirecTv experience.

Remember don’t go rushing out to get one because if you do not have HD access on your account, it will not let you receive your OTA channels.

Thanks,
Frank


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## Stuart Sweet

Well done, Frank! I hope you get a lot of support for AM21s on R22s without HD Access!


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## dodge boy

Stuart Sweet said:


> Well done, Frank! I hope you get a lot of support for AM21s on R22s without HD Access!


Thanks Stu...


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## ThomasM

dodge boy said:


> Thanks Stu...


Actually, I was pulling for your tests to be successful. I've been thinking of putting up a big outdoor antenna to pick up the Chicago digitals OTA, (about 60 miles south of my location) but being a DVR addict I don't think I could put up with commercials anymore. And it's definitely NOT worth the HD access fee!!


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## zuf

Thanks for your efforts (and assuming the risk) on all of our behalf. I'll add my vote that I would LOVE to see the R22 support the AM21 without subscribing to DIRECTV's HD service. I live in an area where D* at present apparently cannot provide HD locals, so the AM21 sounded like just what I needed. Too bad it didn't work.


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## mhayes70

Good job, Frank!

I hope they see the need for this to work without HD access. If feel there is a great need for this to work that way.


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## Jhon69

Well for every Pro subject you need the Con and that's me.You can get all the locals you need from DirecTV for $3. dollars a month!.So I see no need for the AM21.Oh! Yea! like I don't wanna remember the horror of having to have an antenna the size of a battleship hanging over my house!.Plus not to mention the thrills when the 55 mph winds came whipping thru the pass.Needless to say we didn't get much sleep those nights we thought at any moment we would have the battleship in bed with us!.:eek2:


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## Spanky_Partain

Interesting on the testing you did and how it worked until they cut you off.

I guess I don't really understand why an AM21 is needed on a SD receiver. The R22 should already supply the regular SD channel via satellite and if you needed OTA it would seem that the TV would be able to hook up the OTA antenna and use it there.

I think I might be starting to understand. So when the digital OTA comes next year you will not have a SD receiver that will work OTA with the older TV styles. So an AM21 would make a good option for OTA survival should weather be a factor for satellite signals. I guess you could get a cheap converter box for the TV input to the older SD type TV with the older tuners.

OK, I answered my own argument. Now if I could just do that with my wife!


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## dodge boy

Spanky_Partain said:


> OK, I answered my own argument. Now if I could just do that with my wife!


Just remember we're men we're always wrong, until they do it their way and screw it all up..... Then we fix it, but never say, "I told you so".


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## zuf

While a cheap converter box is an option, I think the AM21 is a better option. Not only would it give the OTA backup to deal with weather issues and such, unlike a standard converter the AM21 would give DVR capability (when used with the R22, of course). Additionally, it has two tuners (I believe most converter boxes only have one).

If the AM21 were enabled to work with the R22 (or should I say the R22 enabled to work with the AM21) I would be very interested in purchasing one. After having been spoiled by DVRs for so many years, I have no interest in purchasing a converter box even though my current TVs will all be useless for OTA programming after the conversion and even though the converter box would be very cheap with the coupons.


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## carl6

Jhon69 said:


> You can get all the locals you need from DirecTV for $3. dollars a month!.So I see no need for the AM21.


The counter to that is the sub-channels. I have several local channels that have sub-channels that are not, I don't expect to be, carried by DirecTV.

I have an AM21 on my HR21-200 and have HD on my account. I get about eight channels OTA that I do not get via either SD or HD from DirecTV. If I were an SD only account with an R22, I sure would like to be able to use the AM21 with it.

Carl


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## Jhon69

carl6 said:


> The counter to that is the sub-channels. I have several local channels that have sub-channels that are not, I don't expect to be, carried by DirecTV.
> 
> I have an AM21 on my HR21-200 and have HD on my account. I get about eight channels OTA that I do not get via either SD or HD from DirecTV. If I were an SD only account with an R22, I sure would like to be able to use the AM21 with it.
> 
> Carl


I understand that argument and can appreciate it also.But I also believe that there will come a future time(bandwith providing) that DirecTV will also provide local area subchannels.All providers know the importance of local channels otherwise they wouldn't offer them.


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## ThomasM

Jhon69 said:


> I understand that argument and can appreciate it also.But I also believe that there will come a future time(bandwith providing) that DirecTV will also provide local area subchannels.All providers know the importance of local channels otherwise they wouldn't offer them.


Baloney. One local subchannel on the Milwaukee CBS affiliate (ME TV showing classic programs from the 50's and 60's) is so popular, Weigel Broadcasting (the owner) purchased another failing FULL POWER UHF in the market and put ME TV on it. Guess who still (and probably won't) carry it? DirecTV. But Time-Warner cable has carried it since day one, like they do ALL the OTA channels including the subchannels and the low power ones. DirecTV doesn't even carry the local CBS affiliate's MAIN channel in HD yet!!! (I bet there are a LOT of AM21's in Milwaukee for this reason)

PS: I use my OTA "digital converter box" every day to watch ME TV or the 24 hour LOCAL weather subchannel not available on DirecTV. A great value for a one-time cost of $20 with the government coupon. I will be buying another probably this week with my other coupon for a bedroom TV.


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## Jhon69

ThomasM said:


> Baloney. One local subchannel on the Milwaukee CBS affiliate (ME TV showing classic programs from the 50's and 60's) is so popular, Weigel Broadcasting (the owner) purchased another failing FULL POWER UHF in the market and put ME TV on it. Guess who still (and probably won't) carry it? DirecTV. But Time-Warner cable has carried it since day one, like they do ALL the OTA channels including the subchannels and the low power ones. DirecTV doesn't even carry the local CBS affiliate's MAIN channel in HD yet!!! (I bet there are a LOT of AM21's in Milwaukee for this reason)
> 
> PS: I use my OTA "digital converter box" every day to watch ME TV or the 24 hour LOCAL weather subchannel not available on DirecTV. A great value for a one-time cost of $20 with the government coupon. I will be buying another probably this week with my other coupon for a bedroom TV.


Well I would believe until DirecTV has 100% local coverage.That the question why doesn't DirecTV carry one of my favorite subchannels would not be an issue as 100% local coverage is DirecTV's first objective.Subchannels would be secondary if at all considered.


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## LameLefty

Subchannels probably will never happen via satellite except perhaps in a handful of the biggest markets. So far, FCC "must carry" rules don't apply to subchannels and if they did, there's simply no bandwidth to carry the thousands and thousands of subchannels which exist or will soon exist.


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## LOCODUDE

LameLefty said:


> Subchannels probably will never happen via satellite except perhaps in a handful of the biggest markets. So far, FCC "must carry" rules don't apply to subchannels and if they did, there's simply no bandwidth to carry the thousands and thousands of subchannels which exist or will soon exist.


Indeed.................


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## Jhon69

LameLefty said:


> Subchannels probably will never happen via satellite except perhaps in a handful of the biggest markets. So far, FCC "must carry" rules don't apply to subchannels and if they did, there's simply no bandwidth to carry the thousands and thousands of subchannels which exist or will soon exist.


Well I like to look at things this way(call me an optimist?) DirecTV gonna need something to put on those 8 satellites!.

For Sure!.


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## carl6

LameLefty said:


> Subchannels probably will never happen via satellite except perhaps in a handful of the biggest markets. So far, FCC "must carry" rules don't apply to subchannels and if they did, there's simply no bandwidth to carry the thousands and thousands of subchannels which exist or will soon exist.


Which only furthers the argument that an ota tuner for the R22 SD DVR is a desirable accessory.

Carl


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## LameLefty

Jhon69 said:


> Well I like to look at things this way(call me an optimist?) DirecTV gonna need something to put on those 8 satellites!.
> 
> For Sure!.


Um, which 8 satellites do you think have all that extra capacity? D11 will add enough capacity to finish out the LIL HD and SD rollouts for main channels plus the rest of the expected national HD capacity, and D12 will add a bunch of bandwidth next year, assuming they can get spotbeams juggled appropriately in their assigned frequency slots without causing overlap or interference. But there's nowhere near the bandwidth available or projected to carry all the available local subchannels nationwide.

So I don't really know what you're talking about.


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## dodge boy

Jhon69 said:


> Well I like to look at things this way(call me an optimist?) DirecTV gonna need something to put on those 8 satellites!.
> 
> For Sure!.


More channels on those satellites, yes, 24 hour weather and ALL the other sub channels, NO.....

In my area My TV is a sub channel of my ABC affiliate that is carried, CW is a sub of my NBC affiliate that is carried, and Fox is a sub of my CBS affilite that is carried, but my local 24 hr weather (A sub of my ABC) is not, nor will it ever be, it isn't even listed on my AM21, my PBS has a sub that is not carried, plus I can receive my Cleveland locals as well, via OTA. D* could give us or neighboring locals, FCC ok'd it, but for some reason D* won't do it. Hopefully after the transition to MPEG4 locals they will, and/or allow activation of the AM21 without HD service. Cleveland PBS has 4 subs, none carried....


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## xmguy

dodge boy said:


> More channels on those satellites, yes, 24 hour weather and ALL the other sub channels, NO.....
> 
> In my area My TV is a sub channel of my ABC affiliate that is carried, CW is a sub of my NBC affiliate that is carried, and Fox is a sub of my CBS affilite that is carried, but my local 24 hr weather (A sub of my ABC) is not, nor will it ever be, it isn't even listed on my AM21, my PBS has a sub that is not carried, plus I can receive my Cleveland locals as well, via OTA. D* could give us or neighboring locals, FCC ok'd it, but for some reason D* won't do it. Hopefully after the transition to MPEG4 locals they will, and/or allow activation of the AM21 without HD service. Cleveland PBS has 4 subs, none carried....


Same here. My MY TV channel is a sub channel of my local FOX affiliate.


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## Jhon69

Well as interesting as the test between the AM21 and the R22 is.When you log in to your account on the DirecTV website.Go to Kits and Equipment.Click on more Info under the AM21.It tells you that you will need the 5 LNB Dish or Slimline.A HR21,subscribe to locals and have HD access.


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## dodge boy

I (We) are trying to get enough info/interest to change this policy.....
We will get the 5 LNB dish when our locals go to MPEG4.
That dish is not needed for the AM21, it is needed to access all HD channels.


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## chdoud

Jhon69 said:


> Well for every Pro subject you need the Con and that's me.You can get all the locals you need from DirecTV for $3. dollars a month!.So I see no need for the AM21.Oh! Yea! like I don't wanna remember the horror of having to have an antenna the size of a battleship hanging over my house!.Plus not to mention the thrills when the 55 mph winds came whipping thru the pass.Needless to say we didn't get much sleep those nights we thought at any moment we would have the battleship in bed with us!.:eek2:


Well then there those of us who Directv will not provide locals. We are too small and only have OTA, and in my mind having the ability to record OTA program is a big bonus.


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## ThomasM

chdoud said:


> Well then there those of us who Directv will not provide locals. We are too small and only have OTA, and in my mind having the ability to record OTA program is a big bonus.


What market are you in, Marinette? They do offer locals if you are in the Green Bay market....


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## dodge boy

I just noticed on D*'s web site that the option to order the AM21 came on, after they listed my R22 on my account.


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## chdoud

ThomasM said:


> What market are you in, Marinette? They do offer locals if you are in the Green Bay market....


Got busy and did not get back yesterday.....

We are just outside the Green Bay market (10 miles) and in the Marquette MI DMA so no locals and no plans for them....


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## Jhon69

chdoud said:


> Got busy and did not get back yesterday.....
> 
> We are just outside the Green Bay market (10 miles) and in the Marquette MI DMA so no locals and no plans for them....


So if you are not able to receive locals.You should be eligible to receive the national networks with DirecTV correct?.


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## dodge boy

Jhon69 said:


> So if you are not able to receive locals.You should be eligible to receive the national networks with DirecTV correct?.


No if you have locals that just aren't carried by D* you need a waiver from your local affiliate....


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## LOCODUDE

dodge boy said:


> No if you have locals that just aren't carried by D* you need a waiver from your local affiliate....


Indeed....


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## dodge boy

LOCODUDE said:


> Indeed....


How's your R22 doin'?


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## LOCODUDE

dodge boy said:


> How's your R22 doin'?


Haven't turned it on as yet.............


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## Jhon69

dodge boy said:


> No if you have locals that just aren't carried by D* you need a waiver from your local affiliate....


Right which last I heard DirecTV will try and do this for the subscriber.


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## chdoud

Jhon69 said:


> So if you are not able to receive locals.You should be eligible to receive the national networks with DirecTV correct?.


Only DNS available to us is Fox..... Great isn't it... Live in WI and no Fox affiliate within 100 miles. So no Packer games..... That is why I have had Sunday Ticket for 12 years.....


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## Jhon69

chdoud said:


> Only DNS available to us is Fox..... Great isn't it... Live in WI and no Fox affiliate within 100 miles. So no Packer games..... That is why I have had Sunday Ticket for 12 years.....


Looks like your in between a rock and a hard place.You are a prime candidate for moving.See your service address and billing address can be different.You just need to find an acceptable service address closer to be accepted for locals.


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## dodge boy

Anyone know if D* is considering making this available or not?


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## dodge boy

Still no info on this?


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## Elephanthead

I think everyone can agree that requiring HD access to tune free OTA channels is a bad policy. Any active subscription should include OTA tuning if the equipment to do so is leased. This is a giant screw job to squeeze every penny out of you by directv. I happen to pay the HD access fee so this doesn't even effect me, but I am sure as soon as they figure it out there will be an OTA fee.


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## dodge boy

Elephanthead said:


> I think everyone can agree that requiring HD access to tune free OTA channels is a bad policy. Any active subscription should include OTA tuning if the equipment to do so is leased. This is a giant screw job to squeeze every penny out of you by directv. I happen to pay the HD access fee so this doesn't even effect me, but I am sure as soon as they figure it out there will be an OTA fee.


I could see them tying it to your $3.00/ month local fee.... That would make sense and just provide the box and powered rabit ears in areas they don't serve by satellite, and let sebs that get their locals via satellite opt in by buying the AM21.


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## Elephanthead

I can see that they would require some subscription for the box to work, they supposedly subsidize the cost of the box, and the 3 buck local fee is meant to cover the cost of all the uplink and satelite transponders, but DTV has no additional cost what so ever in letting the box tune OTA, when it already has that capability. Directv operates using airwaves and orbital space that hte FCC regulates, it is not a free for all cash grab for them to drag us over the coals with. They have to have some responsibility allow fair use of their service, or they should have their licenses revoked, or be brough up on rackettering charges.


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## ThomasM

chdoud said:


> Only DNS available to us is Fox..... Great isn't it... Live in WI and no Fox affiliate within 100 miles. So no Packer games..... That is why I have had Sunday Ticket for 12 years.....


Green Bay has a FOX affiliate. You can't be 100 miles north of Green Bay or you'd be in Canada.


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## ThomasM

Elephanthead said:


> I think everyone can agree that requiring HD access to tune free OTA channels is a bad policy. Any active subscription should include OTA tuning if the equipment to do so is leased. This is a giant screw job to squeeze every penny out of you by directv. I happen to pay the HD access fee so this doesn't even effect me, but I am sure as soon as they figure it out there will be an OTA fee.


Sure, why not? They charge $10 to get your locals in HD why not charge to get your locals OTA too? When my commitment ends in '09 I am going to seriously consider a new HDTV, a big outside OTA antenna and a TiVo or two...


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## dodge boy

ThomasM said:


> Sure, why not? They charge $10 to get your locals in HD why not charge to get your locals OTA too? When my commitment ends in '09 I am going to seriously consider a new HDTV, a big outside OTA antenna and a TiVo or two...


A big outside antenna still only has about a 70 mile range, unless it is in the Stratusphere, just simpliy because the curve of the earth puts signals over 70 miles away so high.


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## ThomasM

dodge boy said:


> A big outside antenna still only has about a 70 mile range, unless it is in the Stratusphere, just simpliy because the curve of the earth puts signals over 70 miles away so high.


That's true but being only 60 miles north of downtown Chicago, I can get all of their channels as well as the Milwaukee channels which cable provides but DirecTV does not and probably never will.


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## Jhon69

Elephanthead said:


> I can see that they would require some subscription for the box to work, they supposedly subsidize the cost of the box, and the 3 buck local fee is meant to cover the cost of all the uplink and satelite transponders, but DTV has no additional cost what so ever in letting the box tune OTA, when it already has that capability. Directv operates using airwaves and orbital space that hte FCC regulates, it is not a free for all cash grab for them to drag us over the coals with. They have to have some responsibility allow fair use of their service, or they should have their licenses revoked, or be brough up on rackettering charges.


Fair use of product simply means when you use their product you pay.If you don't want to, you buy an HDTV with a ATSC tuner or buy an ATSC digital tuner stand alone and you don't have to pay.Echostar is coming out with an OTA DVR the TR-50? I believe for the OTA marketplace for sale.


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## Jhon69

ThomasM said:


> That's true but being only 60 miles north of downtown Chicago, I can get all of their channels as well as the Milwaukee channels which cable provides but DirecTV does not and probably never will.


You know why don't you?.Because DirecTV or Dish did not receive the right by law to broadcast more than 1 marketplace locals per area.The way I understand it cable lobbied against them getting it.So now only cable can give you more than 1 marketplace locals.Which is exactly what our cable company does we have Charter and they offer 2 different sets of locals.One north of us and one south of us.Which to me I can't see why pay for 2 NBC's,2 ABC's ect.:nono2:


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## ThomasM

Jhon69 said:


> You know why don't you?.Because DirecTV or Dish did not receive the right by law to broadcast more than 1 marketplace locals per area.The way I understand it cable lobbied against them getting it.So now only cable can give you more than 1 marketplace locals.Which is exactly what our cable company does we have Charter and they offer 2 different sets of locals.One north of us and one south of us.Which to me I can't see why pay for 2 NBC's,2 ABC's ect.:nono2:


Well, since DirecTV can't offer out-of-market locals per FCC rules, they could at least let subscribers who purchase the proper hardware FROM THEM receive them OTA for free even if they don't yet have HDTV service. I already pay their $6 "DVR fee". Why not let me record all the channels I can receive either OTA or from DirecTV?


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## Jhon69

ThomasM said:


> Well, since DirecTV can't offer out-of-market locals per FCC rules, they could at least let subscribers who purchase the proper hardware FROM THEM receive them OTA for free even if they don't yet have HDTV service. I already pay their $6 "DVR fee". Why not let me record all the channels I can receive either OTA or from DirecTV?


Well let's see if I can take a guess.The R22-100 is still too new of SD DVR and will only be in certain areas?or maybe DirecTV doesn't have the right to restrict an HD signal coming from their AM21 ATSC OTA tuner therefore there is a need for HD authorization?.Anyways if I had to guess I would think it would be one of those two.


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## dodge boy

Awesome News on this.... I called D* and explained to them about my AM21, and how it works with the R22 but needs HD Access, well since I have no HD equipment, the CSR activated HD access and gave me a 10.00/ month credit for 6 months, so I can use the AM21 for free and she is forwarding my question about why HD access is needed to get off air locals on the DVR.... Sweet!


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## Jhon69

dodge boy said:


> Awesome News on this.... I called D* and explained to them about my AM21, and how it works with the HR22 but needs HD Access, well since I have no HD equipment, the CSR activated HD access and gave me a 10.00/ month credit for 6 months, so I can use the AM21 for free and she is forwarding my question about why HD access is needed to get off air locals on the DVR.... Sweet!


So did you tell her a R22 or HR22 like you typed?


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## dodge boy

Jhon69 said:


> So did you tell her a R22 or HR22 like you typed?


R22 oops! bad typing


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## g.metz

Dodgeboy,
Did they give you any idea what happens after the 6-month credit? I am interested in the AM-21 with my R-22, but don't want to pay for the HD package. I live in an area where I can get both Wausau locals and Green Bay locals with an antenna, but my Directv locals only allows me to get Wausau (I would prefer Green Bay). So, If I could have the ability to DVR my Green Bay locals along with my Wausua Directv locals would be ideal.
Glenn


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## dodge boy

The CSRs do not set policy for DirecTv, she just said she would forward my question about why HD access is needed.


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## Jhon69

dodge boy said:


> Awesome News on this.... I called D* and explained to them about my AM21, and how it works with the R22 but needs HD Access, well since I have no HD equipment, the CSR activated HD access and gave me a 10.00/ month credit for 6 months, so I can use the AM21 for free and she is forwarding my question about why HD access is needed to get off air locals on the DVR.... Sweet!


So now you don't have an R22-100.It's an HR21-100.:sure:


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## dodge boy

No it does not get any hd channels just my OTA channels. Maybe I should get a slim line just to be sure.... But I can't install it


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## Jhon69

dodge boy said:


> No it does not get any hd channels just my OTA channels. Maybe I should get a slim line just to be sure.... But I can't install it


You would think so if you have HD access.If you don't have HD access then no.

Wonder what DirecTV would say if you called them and said I have a HD DVR with HD access but I need an HD Dish.

By the way is your TV HD?.

Can you access the HD Menu in Systems Info with HD access now?.


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## dodge boy

My TV is not HD, adn no I can not access the HD menu, it is still "greyed out".
Remember D* hasn't stated wheter or not this thing will acutally be upgradable to HD. I have no real desire to go to HD right now, I only wnat my OTA for bad weather days plus I pick up me neighboring locals with it. Oh and a side note, the OTA digital and HD channels PQ are better than D*'s because they are first generation, Not to mention the delay on my Satellite transmitted locals.


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## Jhon69

dodge boy said:


> My TV is not HD, adn no I can not access the HD menu, it is still "greyed out".
> Remember D* hasn't stated wheter or not this thing will acutally be upgradable to HD. I have no real desire to go to HD right now, I only wnat my OTA for bad weather days plus I pick up me neighboring locals with it. Oh and a side note, the OTA digital and HD channels PQ are better than D*'s because they are first generation, Not to mention the delay on my Satellite transmitted locals.


I find that fact fascinating that shows that DirecTV should be able to authorize the AM21 for the R22-100s.

Sorry for bugging you about this issue.I started thinking that if DirecTV gave you HD access that your DVR number would change from a R22-100 to HR21-100.So in a way DirecTV didn't give you HD access,DirecTV just authorized your AM21.Unless DirecTV did give your DVR HD access and you can't use it until you set up your DVR for the 5 LNB Dish?.Very interesting!.As the story of the R22-100 and the AM21 continues.....:sure:


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## harsh

LameLefty said:


> Subchannels probably will never happen via satellite except perhaps in a handful of the biggest markets. So far, FCC "must carry" rules don't apply to subchannels and if they did, there's simply no bandwidth to carry the thousands and thousands of subchannels which exist or will soon exist.


Not to mention the five dozen markets that DIRECTV doesn't offer LIL in yet.


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## dodge boy

Jhon69 said:


> I find that fact fascinating that shows that DirecTV should be able to authorize the AM21 for the R22-100s.
> 
> Sorry for bugging you about this issue.I started thinking that if DirecTV gave you HD access that your DVR number would change from a R22-100 to HR21-100.So in a way DirecTV didn't give you HD access,DirecTV just authorized your AM21.Unless DirecTV did give your DVR HD access and you can't use it until you set up your DVR for the 5 LNB Dish?.Very interesting!.As the story of the R22-100 and the AM21 continues.....:sure:


ah you're not bugging me, you're bumping the thread up to the top, so hopefully it gets some attention from DirecTv... 

My account shows HD access, all my cards in my receivers I'm sure know I have HD access, since the card in the R22 is what activates the AM21. I do not understand why they don't work out of the box and just plug them into the AM21 or HR21 units to get them to work..... Local OTA should have nothing to do with HD access.... Locals maybe I could see that, but HD???


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## Jhon69

dodge boy said:


> ah you're not bugging me, you're bumping the thread up to the top, so hopefully it gets some attention from DirecTv...
> 
> My account shows HD access, all my cards in my receivers I'm sure know I have HD access, since the card in the R22 is what activates the AM21. I do not understand why they don't work out of the box and just plug them into the AM21 or HR21 units to get them to work..... Local OTA should have nothing to do with HD access.... Locals maybe I could see that, but HD???


OK good deal.maybe the problem is DirecTV put the cart in front of the horse.


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## ThomasM

From page 16 of the R22 printed manual:

"If you live in one of the few places in the U.S. where DIRECTV does not provide local channels, you may be using the DIRECTV AM21 Off-Air Tuner to receive them. Please refer to that manual for information about those channels."

So MPEG4 locals might not be the only reason to get an R22!


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## carl6

The R22 is an SD DVR (even though it is essentially cloned from an HD DVR model). Simply adding HD to your account does not change the R22 from an SD to an HD unit.

From the reports I have seen in this thread, for an AM21 to work with an R22, you need HD authorization on your account. But do not confuse that with the R22 becoming HD capable - two different discussions entirely. The R22 will still be an SD DVR that has the ability to use an AM21 as opposed to an R22 that would not be able to use the AM21.

Carl


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## dodge boy

carl6 said:


> The R22 is an SD DVR (even though it is essentially cloned from an HD DVR model). Simply adding HD to your account does not change the R22 from an SD to an HD unit.
> 
> From the reports I have seen in this thread, for an AM21 to work with an R22, you need HD authorization on your account. But do not confuse that with the R22 becoming HD capable - two different discussions entirely. The R22 will still be an SD DVR that has the ability to use an AM21 as opposed to an R22 that would not be able to use the AM21.
> 
> Carl


That's why I asked for the $10.00 before I "turned it on"....


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## Jhon69

carl6 said:


> The R22 is an SD DVR (even though it is essentially cloned from an HD DVR model). Simply adding HD to your account does not change the R22 from an SD to an HD unit.
> 
> From the reports I have seen in this thread, for an AM21 to work with an R22, you need HD authorization on your account. But do not confuse that with the R22 becoming HD capable - two different discussions entirely. The R22 will still be an SD DVR that has the ability to use an AM21 as opposed to an R22 that would not be able to use the AM21.
> 
> Carl


Which confuses me because I associate HD authorization with HD access.


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## carl6

Jhon69 said:


> Which confuses me because I associate HD authorization with HD access.


In a roundabout way, it is. The AM21 is an HD capable tuner, primarily designed to work with an HD DVR (the HR21). Because the R22 was evolved from the HR21, I don't know if it is coincidence or design that the AM21 will work with it, but to make the AM21 itself work, HD authorization is required on the account. DirecTV has never provided OTA tuners for their SD DVRs in the past.

Carl


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## dodge boy

carl6 said:


> In a roundabout way, it is. The AM21 is an HD capable tuner, primarily designed to work with an HD DVR (the HR21). Because the R22 was evolved from the HR21, I don't know if it is coincidence or design that the AM21 will work with it, but to make the AM21 itself work, HD authorization is required on the account. DirecTV has never provided OTA tuners for their SD DVRs in the past.
> 
> Carl


My hope is they will now since the digital conversion of OTA channels gets closer every day....


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## ThomasM

carl6 said:


> In a roundabout way, it is. The AM21 is an HD capable tuner, primarily designed to work with an HD DVR (the HR21). Because the R22 was evolved from the HR21, I don't know if it is coincidence or design that the AM21 will work with it, but to make the AM21 itself work, HD authorization is required on the account. DirecTV has never provided OTA tuners for their SD DVRs in the past.
> 
> Carl


Since the AM21 is specifically discussed in the *R22* manual (which is a product that doesn't do HD because it's disabled in the hardware), perhaps the only reason RIGHT NOW that an AM21 won't work with an R22 unless the account has HD enabled is a SOFTWARE issue that is going to be changed. I can't imagine that DirecTV would require someone in an area that must get locals OTA to subscribe to their HD package just so an AM21 can be connected, especially since the R22 won't display the locals in HD anyway.


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## carl6

OTA was offered by DirecTV on their HD products because they served so few markets with HD locals. They serve many markets with SD locals.

I agree, it is a software issue, and I agree it should be relatively easy to modify the software to allow the AM21 to work with the R22 (without adding HD service to your account). I also agree I would like to see that happen.

The real question is, how many markets would actually NEED OTA with an SD DVR in order to get the SD channels (i.e., where the SD channels are not available by satellite at all)? I'm only referring to the primary channels, not the sub-channels - those SD channels that are carried by DirecTV.

From DirecTV's point of view, why should the R22 offer any OTA capability at all? None of their other SD products do. The only reasonable answer would be to offer a limited number of locations local channel capability that is not available by satellite. For those selected markets, they could enable HD on an otherwise SD account to make it work.

Carl


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## zuf

(Bringing a month-old thread back to life . . .)

I was on directv.com yesterday and clicked on "Add Kits & Equipment". The description for the AM21 has changed and now references the R22:



> Designed to work seamlessly with the DIRECTV Plus® HD DVR and the DIRECTV Plus® DVR, this specialized tuner allows you to view your local off-air channels.


Clicking More Info adds the following details:



> Thin and lightweight, the DIRECTV® AM21 Off-Air Tuner is designed to fit perfectly on top of a DIRECTV Plus® HD DVR receiver (HR21) or a DIRECTV Plus® DVR (R22).


And a final comment:



> Keep in mind that you will need a DIRECTV Plus® HD DVR to view the digital off-air locals in HD.


which makes sense because the output on the R22 is locked in 480p (so recording OTA HD channels would still result in them being output in 480p and not HD).

So, dodge boy, it looks like you may not need that HD access enablement anymore. Thanks to you for blazing the trail for the rest of us.


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## dodge boy

zuf said:


> Thanks to you for blazing the trail for the rest of us.


'Twas nuttin' 

I will have to call D* and see if you no longer need HD access.....


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## dodge boy

Just got off the Phone with DirecTv seems you still need to subscribe to HD Access to use the AM-21, maybe the change on the website is an indication of a change to come as Fubuary gets closer....


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## LOCODUDE

dodge boy said:


> Just got off the Phone with DirecTv seems you still need to subscribe to HD Access to use the AM-21, *maybe the change on the website is an indication of a change to come as Fubuary gets closer*....


*Indeed*.......... It would seem so..................


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## dodge boy

LOCODUDE said:


> *Indeed*.......... It would seem so..................


What happened to T'ilk?


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## red.bean.head

LOCODUDE said:


> *Indeed*.......... It would seem so..................


Indubidably........


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## dodge boy

I just got off the phone with DirecTv (Retention) today... 9/9/2008 8:43 p.m. according to the CSR you no longer need HD Access to get your OTA Locals, I discontinued my HD Access and my AM21 is still working..... Awesome!


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## LameLefty

dodge boy said:


> I just got off the phone with DirecTv (Retention) today... 9/9/2008 8:43 p.m. according to the CSR you no longer need HD Access to get your OTA Locals, I discontinued my HD Access and my AM21 is still working..... Awesome!


Yeah, but when will HD Access enable HD access on the R22? 

Enquiring minds want to know . . .


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## Jhon69

LameLefty said:


> Yeah, but when will HD Access enable HD access on the R22?
> 
> Enquiring minds want to know . . .


Well I activated an HR10-250.DirecTV put on HD Access.MyR22-100 is still SD.I would imagine I will have to keep HD Access until the HD channels disappear from my guide on the HR10-250.I'm going to deactivate My R15-500 and send it back.Of course I resetup the R15-500 accordingly.


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## dodge boy

LameLefty said:


> Yeah, but when will HD Access enable HD access on the R22?
> 
> Enquiring minds want to know . . .


There is no information stating that this will ever happen.


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## LameLefty

dodge boy said:


> There is no information stating that this will ever happen.


Yes, I know. I was a field tester too.


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## dodge boy

LameLefty said:


> Yes, I know. I was a field tester too.


Sorry :lol: 
I didn't pay attention to who posted....


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## LameLefty

dodge boy said:


> Sorry :lol:
> I didn't pay attention to who posted....


It's okay. I should have qualified my post with the old [wishful thinking] [/wishful thinking] tags. :lol:


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## dodge boy

LameLefty said:


> It's okay. I should have qualified my post with the old [wishful thinking] [/wishful thinking] tags. :lol:


Indeed......

(where is Locodude anyway?)


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## ThomasM

OK, so (supposedly-  ) if you pop the fifty bucks for an AM21 it will work with the R22 WITHOUT having HD access.

But what channels does it receive? It is an OTA tuner. Can it be set up to receive ANY channel that you feed it via an outdoor antenna, or can it only receive the locals as determined by your ZIP code? What if ALL your locals are already on the 101 (even if some aren't carried in HD by DirecTV yet). Is there ANY benefit to getting an AM21? Will it receive/allow recording the subchannels that aren't carried by DirecTV?

Fifty bucks is a lot to invest for a nasty surprise!!!


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## carl6

The AM21 is designed to receive the ota channels that are in the DirecTV guide database for your location. It does not scan for ota channels. It should get any/all stations you have any possibility of receiving (in your market), and it allows a second zip code for an adjacent market.

The potential advantage is that many local stations transmit sub-channels which DirecTV does not carry via satellite. For example, my local PBS station is Seattle 9. Via OTA I can get 9, 9-1, 9-2, 9-3, 9-4 and 9-5. From DirecTV I only get 9.

Carl


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## dorfd1

dodge boy said:


> The reason I posted this is to hopefully draw enough support for it to work without the HD access so that as February 2009 approaches DirecTv will drop the need for HD access for these to work, so that people will have access to their sub channels and integrate them into their DirecTv experience.
> 
> Remember don't go rushing out to get one because if you do not have HD access on your account, it will not let you receive your OTA channels.
> 
> Thanks,
> Frank


not all ota is hd. Why do you need hd access to pick up cetworld of air when that is not in hd?


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## ThomasM

carl6 said:


> The AM21 is designed to receive the ota channels that are in the DirecTV guide database for your location. It does not scan for ota channels. It should get any/all stations you have any possibility of receiving (in your market), and it allows a second zip code for an adjacent market.
> 
> The potential advantage is that many local stations transmit sub-channels which DirecTV does not carry via satellite. For example, my local PBS station is Seattle 9. Via OTA I can get 9, 9-1, 9-2, 9-3, 9-4 and 9-5. From DirecTV I only get 9.
> 
> Carl


Interesting...

I get a lot of DTV "subchannels" via my new digital TV converter box that I DON'T get from DirecTV including a 24 hour local weather channel on the Milwaukee NBC affiliate and a subchannel showing old TV series (ME TV) on the local CBS affiliate. But $50 is a lot to pop just to be able to record these subchannels..... Maybe DirecTV will offer a $40 coupon like the government did to get an AM21?


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## carl6

If you anticipate even watching any of the subchannels, then having the AM21 integrates everything into one package. You don't need to switch inputs to the digital coverter box.

Also, some of the ota subchannels are (or at least could be) in HD, which you won't get with a digital converter box. You could get those in HD if your TV has an ATSC tuner, but it comes back to (1) being able to record and (2) convenience of all channels being in one guide and available on one tv source.

How much value that has to you in terms of $$, only you can decide.

Carl


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## Neil Griffin

I have a couple of questions about the AM-21. First, how does it handle stations that Direct does not carry, such as the subchannels for PBS? Will it display them, and is there any guide information.

We are currently with Dish, but moving to SC and exploring all of our options. This DVR looks like a good fit for us, and integrating OTA would be nice, especially since we get a good deal of extra programming on the SC and NC PBS digital subchannels that would be nice to record.


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## dodge boy

Neil Griffin said:


> I have a couple of questions about the AM-21. First, how does it handle stations that Direct does not carry, such as the subchannels for PBS? Will it display them, and is there any guide information.
> 
> We are currently with Dish, but moving to SC and exploring all of our options. This DVR looks like a good fit for us, and integrating OTA would be nice, especially since we get a good deal of extra programming on the SC and NC PBS digital subchannels that would be nice to record.


As long as the locals report the sub channels and their guide data to whoever sets up DirecTv's guide (Tribune I believe) they will be there, I get all my subs except the 24 hr weather, but I get that from Cleveland (Neighboring local).


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## gulfwarvet

Neil Griffin said:


> I have a couple of questions about the AM-21. First, how does it handle stations that Direct does not carry, such as the subchannels for PBS? Will it display them, and is there any guide information.
> 
> We are currently with Dish, but moving to SC and exploring all of our options. This DVR looks like a good fit for us, and integrating OTA would be nice, especially since we get a good deal of extra programming on the SC and NC PBS digital subchannels that would be nice to record.


yes, your guide will display all the sub-channels that is in your primary OTA and if you choose to enter a secondary local OTA location. that to will should be listed in your DIRECTV Guide. 
however, if by chance there is a missing or incorrect channel listing that prevents you from receiving the local OTA station. you can log your issue in the thread below and hopefully soon it will be corrected.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=134005


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## LOCODUDE

dodge boy said:


> Indeed......
> 
> (where is Locodude anyway?)


I'm back now....... Indeed.............:lol:


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## ThomasM

LameLefty said:


> Yes, I know. I was a field tester too.


Ah, but that one lucky DirecTV customer posted messages here that he had gotten an R22 WITH HD ENABLED and even posted screen images of it and the test/info screen which called it an "R22 (HD enabled)" so we KNOW the box can do it if the right set of circumstances happen!!!


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## LameLefty

ThomasM said:


> Ah, but that one lucky DirecTV customer posted messages here that he had gotten an R22 WITH HD ENABLED and even posted screen images of it and the test/info screen which called it an "R22 (HD enabled)" so we KNOW the box can do it if the right set of circumstances happen!!!


Sure. But no new info was ever given, though the recent investor's presentation indicated that an SD box with HD capability would be forthcoming. That much we know.

We just don't know if that particular unit is going to be the R22 or some other, as yet to be released box.


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## LOCODUDE

LameLefty said:


> Sure. But no new info was ever given, though the recent investor's presentation indicated that an SD box with HD capability would be forthcoming. That much we know.
> 
> We just don't know if that particular unit is going to be the R22 or some other, as yet to be released box.


Indeed........... Looking forward to that !!!


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## LameLefty

LOCODUDE said:


> Indeed........... Looking forward to that !!!


Me too. 

I'm (selfishly) hoping that mystery box in Directv's plans is in fact the "R22 (with HD)" that someone posted about here, as opposed to some "R23/24/whatever", since: No. 1, I already HAVE the box; and No. 2, it'll give me an excuse to replace the 36" Sony Trinitron dinosaur with an HD flat panel.


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## dodge boy

Sorry need to bump this


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## LOCODUDE

dodge boy said:


> Sorry need to bump this


Why?


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## dodge boy

posted a link to it in another thread...... Probably didn't need to but..... hey


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## xmguy

LameLefty said:


> Yes, I know. I was a field tester too.


As was I. :grin:

Hey Locodude. A bit off topic (forgive me mods) I can't wait for SG-U.


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## andy4theherd

found this thread from the above mentioned link in a different thread...

I have an AM21 and HR21. I lost my job last week and dropped from Choice Xtra HD DVR to Family with DVR. I assumed I would get my locals OTA with the AM21 in HD with no problems, however, I noticed this evening that they are all being down-res'd to 480P. I am using an Epson 1080p Home projector with my setup. I have my HR21 setup to display each station in "native". The networks I receive from DTV are in 480I (as they should be). When I select a network I am receiving OTA on the AM21 it is in 480P (it should be in 1080i or 720P depending on the network). I am currenty running the antenna setup to see if this solves the problem.


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## carl6

andy,
If you have removed HD service from your account, then you will only get SD out of the HR21/AM21. The AM21 is a supplement to the HR21. It is not going to pass the equivalent of ota signal through to your TV. If you want that, then use a tuner internal to your TV to get HD.


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