# Priortizer Question or I'm Confused!



## ronw41 (Nov 17, 2005)

In the Prioritizer of the R15, on a list numbered 1 through 10, is the number one the top priority or is the number ten the top priority? I can't find this in "the manual". 

Thanks in advance for any and all help.

Ron


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## Malibu13 (Sep 12, 2004)

ronw41 said:


> In the Prioritizer of the R15, on a list numbered 1 through 10, is the number one the top priority or is the number ten the top priority? I can't find this in "the manual".
> 
> Thanks in advance for any and all help.
> 
> Ron


Ron, this subject has been debated before and i can't give you a definite answer but the only thing the manual states is that "if there is a conflict, the higher will be chosen"...........it's really sort of confusing and depends on how you read it...........now, the "higher will be chosen" could be the higher number will be chosen to record or the "higher" will be selected to be deleted.

hopefully someone that has experienced a conflict already, can chime in an add some insight as to the correct answer.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

db54 said:


> hopefully someone that has experienced a conflict already, can chime in an add some insight as to the correct answer.


Is there any equivilant to Tivo's "todo list" on the R15? There you can see why a show will not be recorded in the future or why it wasn't recorded in the past. If there is some type of screen like this it should highlight conflicts for you.


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## ad301 (Mar 30, 2004)

Unfortunately, it speaks volumes about the design of the r15 that this question even comes up. It's actually very hard to test. I am 95% sure that #1 is the highest priority, just as in every other DVR I'm aware of.

And Wolffpack, there is a todo list of sorts, but it's constantly changing and is an unreliable predictor of what will actually happen when the time rolls around for a recording to start. There's also a history screen, but it doesn't work either.


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## LockMD (Nov 16, 2005)

ad301 said:


> Unfortunately, it speaks volumes about the design of the r15 that this question even comes up. It's actually very hard to test. I am 95% sure that #1 is the highest priority, just as in every other DVR I'm aware of.
> 
> And Wolffpack, there is a todo list of sorts, but it's constantly changing and is an unreliable predictor of what will actually happen when the time rolls around for a recording to start. There's also a history screen, but it doesn't work either.


Yes the highest priority is #1. Only thing is like some 'other' things, as you add to it, it seems to have a mind of its own on where it adds it. Tested this the other day. I deleted my #1 selection (Nip/Tuck) re-added it just to see where it would put it. Top or Bottom, out of 27 entries, it put it at #23. Go figure????


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## ad301 (Mar 30, 2004)

LockMD said:


> Yes the highest priority is #1. Only thing is like some 'other' things, as you add to it, it seems to have a mind of its own on where it adds it. Tested this the other day. I deleted my #1 selection (Nip/Tuck) re-added it just to see where it would put it. Top or Bottom, out of 27 entries, it put it at #23. Go figure????


Wow, that's a new one. I've only ever see it add new items at #1.


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## LockMD (Nov 16, 2005)

ad301 said:


> Wow, that's a new one. I've only ever see it add new items at #1.


Me too, that kind of bugged me. Had to walk it all the way back up to #1 (thought that is where it would have put it).


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

Just curious Lock, I haven't tested yet but are you seeing an indication in the TODO list if a program gets "bumped" by a higher priority? I know on my TODO list on my TIVO is shows "a higher priority has ....." and I was curious if there is an indicator.
I'm going to try to set some up to see but haven't yet.


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## LockMD (Nov 16, 2005)

ISWIZ said:


> Just curious Lock, I haven't tested yet but are you seeing an indication in the TODO list if a program gets "bumped" by a higher priority? I know on my TODO list on my TIVO is shows "a higher priority has ....." and I was curious if there is an indicator.
> I'm going to try to set some up to see but haven't yet.


Yes, every now and then 3 shows will be set at the same time, the one with the 'highest' number will be bumped and the indicator is instead of the red R its a red circle with an 'X" in it and beside it says wont record.

At that point if I want it and not something else, I'll change the higharchy in the prioritizer.


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

Good to know they got that right.


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## ronw41 (Nov 17, 2005)

Well, from what I have gleaned from the comments thus far it looks as though "1" would have the highest priority and "10 would have the lowest priority in a group from 1 through 10.

If I am wrong please correct me. 

Thanks everyone.

Ron


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## LockMD (Nov 16, 2005)

ronw41 said:


> Well, from what I have gleaned from the comments thus far it looks as though "1" would have the highest priority and "10 would have the lowest priority in a group from 1 through 10.
> 
> If I am wrong please correct me.
> 
> ...


You are correct.


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## Malibu13 (Sep 12, 2004)

LockMD said:


> Yes the highest priority is #1. Only thing is like some 'other' things, as you add to it, it seems to have a mind of its own on where it adds it. Tested this the other day. I deleted my #1 selection (Nip/Tuck) re-added it just to see where it would put it. Top or Bottom, out of 27 entries, it put it at #23. Go figure????


LockMD, thanks for the clarification


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## jimmymiko (Nov 19, 2005)

My new recordings always go into slot 1 which is pretty annoying.


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

Is it only annoying because your other system puts it at the bottom? Possibly someone thought your most recent choice is your most important rather than your oldest.... Just a thought.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

ISWIZ said:


> Is it only annoying because your other system puts it at the bottom? Possibly someone thought your most recent choice is your most important rather than your oldest.... Just a thought.


I agree. I always thought it was annoying for Tivo's to put it at the bottom as I had to adjust it upward later. That's a no win/loose complaint.


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

Wolf,

As with all software, it's how the end user chooses to use it and what they want it to do. I deal with a medical system daily and there are a dozen ways to do the same thing on it. Trying to advise the user the "best" way is impossible because we all see the process differently. As long as the result is the same their is no "right" way. Glad we can agree.


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> I agree. I always thought it was annoying for Tivo's to put it at the bottom as I had to adjust it upward later. That's a no win/loose complaint.


Well, if there are no conflicts, it doesn't much matter. And if there is even one conflict, TiVo will give you the option of putting it first instead of last. I think what people are complaining about is the R15 putting it first with no option of putting it last at creation time.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

walters said:


> Well, if there are no conflicts, it doesn't much matter. And if there is even one conflict, TiVo will give you the option of putting it first instead of last. I think what people are complaining about is the R15 putting it first with no option of putting it last at creation time.


Actually if the R15 detects a Conflict when you schedule something it will ask you what you want to cancel before letting you finishing.


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## LockMD (Nov 16, 2005)

Kanyon71 said:


> Actually if the R15 detects a Conflict when you schedule something it will ask you what you want to cancel before letting you finishing.


Unless it was scheduled before the guide had enough info. In that case, the highest number in the prioritizer will have a red circle with an 'X' in it and will say won't record. Which is okay, but if you don't keep an eye and check the todo list you would never know.


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

The conflict resolution on the R15 is a much better way than it has been done before. I was trying to test the priorities but it keeps wanting me to resolve it first which is the best way. I think where it will come into play is as programs move time slots or series end and others begin.


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

"Trying to advise the user the "best" way is impossible because we all see the process differently"

Could have sworn I read that somewhere recently. 

Not that it matters to anyone but me, but I disagree that handling series recording conflicts by exception rather than by priority is the "best" way. Single recordings should/must be handled by cancellation, but series recordings are more predictable (and the code is simpler) if handled strictly by priority.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

walters said:


> "Trying to advise the user the "best" way is impossible because we all see the process differently"
> 
> Could have sworn I read that somewhere recently.
> 
> Not that it matters to anyone but me, but I disagree that handling series recording conflicts by exception rather than by priority is the "best" way. Single recordings should/must be handled by cancellation, but series recordings are more predictable (and the code is simpler) if handled strictly by priority.


The best way would be just add a tuner for every station then we would never have conflicts :lol:

Didn't Sony have a box like this in Japan that was like $8000?


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## ad301 (Mar 30, 2004)

ISWIZ said:


> The conflict resolution on the R15 is a much better way than it has been done before. I was trying to test the priorities but it keeps wanting me to resolve it first which is the best way.


Oh brother, this takes the cake. Have you ever actually used the tivo units you have listed in your sig?

Try setting three series links on your r15 for shows that run in the time slot. Then try to do the same thing on one of your tivos. The r15 is *much worse* in the way it handles this situation. It needs to have an additional choice for "add series link in spite of conflict".

And you said it yourself, you can't even test priorities because it makes you resolve them manually, but the only choices it gives you are to delete series links.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

ad301 said:


> Oh brother, this takes the cake. Have you ever actually used the tivo units you have listed in your sig?
> 
> Try setting three series links on your r15 for shows that run in the time slot. Then try to do the same thing on one of your tivos. The r15 is *much worse* in the way it handles this situation. It needs to have an additional choice for "add series link in spite of conflict".
> 
> And you said it yourself, you can't even test priorities because it makes you resolve them manually, but the only choices it gives you are to delete series links.


I don't like the sound of that.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

ad301 said:


> Oh brother, this takes the cake. Have you ever actually used the tivo units you have listed in your sig?
> 
> Try setting three series links on your r15 for shows that run in the time slot. Then try to do the same thing on one of your tivos. The r15 is *much worse* in the way it handles this situation. It needs to have an additional choice for "add series link in spite of conflict".
> 
> And you said it yourself, you can't even test priorities because it makes you resolve them manually, but the only choices it gives you are to delete series links.


Tivo has no conflict resolution, it comes up and says these will not be recorded. Thats not resolution it's avoidance.


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

ad301 said:


> Oh brother, this takes the cake. Have you ever actually used the tivo units you have listed in your sig?
> 
> Try setting three series links on your r15 for shows that run in the time slot. Then try to do the same thing on one of your tivos. The r15 is *much worse* in the way it handles this situation. It needs to have an additional choice for "add series link in spite of conflict".
> 
> And you said it yourself, you can't even test priorities because it makes you resolve them manually, but the only choices it gives you are to delete series links.


Sure have them all. Plus one my son owns and one my daughter owns. The point was, you can't create a conflict. Why would you want to record 3 series at the same time on 2 tuners?

As for advising the "best" way, the term I used in talking about the conflict resolution (software) was "better". You are right, there is no best way, just the opinion that not allowing conflicts is "better" than having to prioritize them. 
Possibly that's why we think there is a "50" limit that has been talked about. There is no need for so many on this box.


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## LockMD (Nov 16, 2005)

ISWIZ said:


> The point was, you can't create a conflict. Why would you want to record 3 series at the same time on 2 tuners?


Sure there is, how do you think I get the third show every now and then that says wont record. Not sure how I did it, maybe I start setting up SL's before the guide populated. But it does happen, I have to keep an eye on my todo list to make sure and adjust priorities as needed.


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

That's what I had said earlier. If they reshuffle schedules (the networks) then the priorities come into play. While setting them up though I see the decision making a btter choice than avoiding it without an indicator. (except in the history list). I wish the R15 gave more info but I can live with it for now.


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## ad301 (Mar 30, 2004)

Kanyon71 said:


> Tivo has no conflict resolution, it comes up and says these will not be recorded. Thats not resolution it's avoidance.


That's BS, and you know it.

Tivo lists the conflicts for you, shows which programs will or will not record if you enter a season pass, and gives you three choices:

1) "OK, record this Season Pass as shown", which enters it at the bottom of the priority list,

2) "Get ALL episodes of this Season Pass", which enters the SP at the *top* of the priority list, or

3) "Don't get this Season Pass".

Where's the avoidance?


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

ad301 said:


> That's BS, and you know it.
> 
> Tivo lists the conflicts for you, shows which programs will or will not record if you enter a season pass, and gives you three choices:
> 
> ...


That avoids dealing with the conflict, you aren't able to say cancel this recording on this tuner to get the new show or cancel this on on this tuner its just get them or don't get them. The best bet for Conflict Resolution would be if you had multiple boxes and they could talk to each other and schedule To resolve it. The one thing I always hated about what Tivo does is, that it doesn't take second runs of the same show into account when it gives you this message. I have run into it many times it says this won't be recorded but then 3 hours later Tivo will record that same episode as it's being repeated, this has happened to me with South Park and American Chopper/Monster Garage.


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## ad301 (Mar 30, 2004)

ISWIZ said:


> If they reshuffle schedules (the networks) then the priorities come into play. While setting them up though I see the decision making a btter choice than avoiding it without an indicator. (except in the history list).


Where do you guys come up with this stuff??? Where do you see tivo "avoiding it without an indicator"???

The tivo way gives you *more* choices, and doesn't force you to cancel prior season passes if there are conflicts.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

ad301 said:


> Where do you guys come up with this stuff??? Where do you see tivo "avoiding it without an indicator"???
> 
> The tivo way gives you *more* choices, and doesn't force you to cancel prior season passes if there are conflicts.


I guess it's all in how you decide to decipher what the screen says. More choices? NO it's the same number of choices, just going about it in a slightly different way.


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## ad301 (Mar 30, 2004)

Kanyon71 said:


> That avoids dealing with the conflict, you aren't able to say cancel this recording on this tuner to get the new show or cancel this on on this tuner its just get them or don't get them.


The r15 avoids it, by your own definition. On the r15 you cannot do what you seem to want the tivo to do, which is select which individual recording to override. On the r15 you can only cancel a prior series link, but I'll grant you that you can choose which one. The tivo gives you more options.



Kanyon71 said:


> The best bet for Conflict Resolution would be if you had multiple boxes and they could talk to each other and schedule To resolve it.


I agree with that, but it's irrelevant to this discussion.



Kanyon71 said:


> The one thing I always hated about what Tivo does is, that it doesn't take second runs of the same show into account when it gives you this message. I have run into it many times it says this won't be recorded but then 3 hours later Tivo will record that same episode as it's being repeated, this has happened to me with South Park and American Chopper/Monster Garage.


There you go again, just making stuff up. The tivo absolutely *does* take second runs into account, and lists them very clearly when you set up a conflicting season pass.


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## ad301 (Mar 30, 2004)

Kanyon71 said:


> I guess it's all in how you decide to decipher what the screen says. More choices? NO it's the same number of choices, just going about it in a slightly different way.


Please post a screenshot of the r15 giving you the same number of choices as the tivo. I'm particularly interested in deciphering the option where you can enter the series link without canceling one of the two conflicting series links.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

ad301 said:


> The r15 avoids it, by your own definition. On the r15 you cannot do what you seem to want the tivo to do, which is select which individual recording to override. On the r15 you can only cancel a prior series link, but I'll grant you that you can choose which one. The tivo gives you more options.
> 
> I agree with that, but it's irrelevant to this discussion.
> 
> There you go again, just making stuff up. The tivo absolutely *does* take second runs into account, and lists them very clearly when you set up a conflicting season pass.


Then your Tivo is doing something that none of my 3 do. Yes it WILL record them at a later time but when setting up the Season Pass it says these episode will NOT be recorded.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

ad301 said:


> Please post a screenshot of the r15 giving you the same number of choices as the tivo. I'm particularly interested in deciphering the option where you can enter the series link without canceling one of the two conflicting series links.


3 choices are 3 choices. Cancel 1 Cancel 2, and whatever the exact wording for the cancel series link is.

Here are the choices you said Tivo gives (which I completely agree with:

1) "OK, record this Season Pass as shown", which enters it at the bottom of the priority list,

2) "Get ALL episodes of this Season Pass", which enters the SP at the *top* of the priority list, or

3) "Don't get this Season Pass".

Seems to be the same number of choices to me.

No there isn't a way to add it without canceling one of the others which is a bad decision I agree. Has anyone tried picking the later episode if it's one of the ones where they do repeats at night?


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

Kanyon71 said:


> Then your Tivo is doing something that none of my 3 do. Yes it WILL record them at a later time but when setting up the Season Pass it says these episode will NOT be recorded.


Huh?

It says "Will record", followed by a list of the ones it will record. Then it says "Will NOT record", followed by a list of the ones it will not record. It will never record the ones it says it won't and it will never fail to record the ones it says it will.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

walters said:


> Huh?
> 
> It says "Will record", followed by a list of the ones it will record. Then it says "Will NOT record", followed by a list of the ones it will not record. It will never record the ones it says it won't and it will never fail to record the ones it says it will.


Maybe I am wrong but I have not seen it say that it will record say the 11:00pm show because the 9:00pm showing confilcted with another show. I will mess with tonight, if i'm wrong (which is possible) I'm more them happy to admit it.


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## ad301 (Mar 30, 2004)

Kanyon71 said:


> 3 choices are 3 choices. Cancel 1 Cancel 2, and whatever the exact wording for the cancel series link is.
> 
> Here are the choices you said Tivo gives (which I completely agree with:
> 
> ...


That pretty much says it all.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

ad301 said:


> That pretty much says it all.


I wasn't the one who said it was better, I think both ways are decent.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Kanyon71 said:


> The best bet for Conflict Resolution would be if you had multiple boxes and they could talk to each other and schedule To resolve it.


My Tivos do exactly this. Granted, not automatically, but once a week I pull up Firefox, browse into my Tivos and start the conflict resolution for the next week.

This highlights some of the capabilities that can be added by independant developers when the unit is based on Linux. My Tivos are hacked, turning on network support, MRV, HMO, Web interface, FTP transfers, conflict resolution and there's even a nice little program called "endpad" that will add a preselected number of minutes to the beginning and end of a show if there's no recording conflict.


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> My Tivos do exactly this. Granted, not automatically, but once a week I pull up Firefox, browse into my Tivos and start the conflict resolution for the next week.
> 
> This highlights some of the capabilities that can be added by independant developers when the unit is based on Linux. My Tivos are hacked, turning on network support, MRV, HMO, Web interface, FTP transfers, conflict resolution and there's even a nice little program called "endpad" that will add a preselected number of minutes to the beginning and end of a show if there's no recording conflict.


Ah, so hacking is what makes TIVO best. Now I get it.:nono:


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> My Tivos do exactly this. Granted, not automatically, but once a week I pull up Firefox, browse into my Tivos and start the conflict resolution for the next week.
> 
> This highlights some of the capabilities that can be added by independant developers when the unit is based on Linux. My Tivos are hacked, turning on network support, MRV, HMO, Web interface, FTP transfers, conflict resolution and there's even a nice little program called "endpad" that will add a preselected number of minutes to the beginning and end of a show if there's no recording conflict.


Well not to pick bones but your Tivo doesn't do this. A hack program is forcing it to do something it was not meant to do. Yes it's cool that it does it and very helpful that it can be done but it's not something the unit does out of the box. Who knows down the line maybe people will hack this box, maybe someday Tivo willget ticked and it will become illegal to hack the box (Microsoft has been known to bust on people hacking the XBox).


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

ISWIZ said:


> Ah, so hacking is what makes TIVO best. Now I get it.:nono:


Some people choose to work on their own cars, some people accept what they are given.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Kanyon71 said:


> Well not to pick bones but your Tivo doesn't do this. A hack program is forcing it to do something it was not meant to do. Yes it's cool that it does it and very helpful that it can be done but it's not something the unit does out of the box. Who knows down the line maybe people will hack this box, maybe someday Tivo willget ticked and it will become illegal to hack the box (Microsoft has been known to bust on people hacking the XBox).


How will it *become* illegal? I purchased a Tivo and I have either enabled functionality already there that was disabled by DTV, or I have added functionality that a third party developed. I have not violated any of Tivo's copyrights nor have I sold any of this.

Are you saying that by adding a program such as AVG Anti-virus to your Windows PC that Microsoft can make that illegal and Microsoft will come after you?

And I must disagree, my tivo does do this.

BTW, I'm not talking about theft of service.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> How will it *become* illegal? I purchased a Tivo and I have either enabled functionality already there that was disabled by DTV, or I have added functionality that a third party developed. I have not violated any of Tivo's copyrights nor have I sold any of this.
> 
> Are you saying that by adding a program such as AVG Anti-virus to your Windows PC that Microsoft can make that illegal and Microsoft will come after you?
> 
> ...


Oh I fully realize what you are talking about, I never thought you where talking about theft of service.

What I was really referring to is this:

Any attempt to disassemble, decompile, create derivative works of, reverse engineer, modify, sublicense, distribute or use for other purposes either the TiVo DVR or the software of the TiVo DVR is strictly prohibited

Thats out of the Tivo Service Agreement, they don't do anything about it but if someone ever got cranky they have the right to. I think as long as people don't start doing illegal things with the DVR and pushing it in the publics face then all is good.

Yes you are correct that your Tivo is MEANT to do this but out of the box it doesn't do it and took hacking to accomplish doing it. I don't think it was a great decision by DirecTV to not turn these features on but then again I'm not priviy to reasons behind the desisions. Outside of the fact that I can't even begin to imagine having to deal with the CSR's on issues that could come up. Heck they don't even know their own DVR let alone trying to support all these features


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> Some people choose to work on their own cars, some people accept what they are given.


In my work, it's "Some people choose to screw up their computers, others use them for what they are supposed to."

I have have nothing against hacking Wolf, BTDT, I just want to keep the discussion between apples and apples. There are some wonderful minds out there that do fantastic things to their boxes but the discussion of the NEW R15 IMHO should concern stock box to stock box. No HEMI's allowed. Right now somewhere in the US there is a 13 yr old with his folks R15 apart in the basement turbo charging it. In a year we'll all be talking about it.:grin:


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

ISWIZ said:


> In my work, it's "Some people choose to screw up their computers, others use them for what they are supposed to."
> 
> I have have nothing against hacking Wolf, BTDT, I just want to keep the discussion between apples and apples. There are some wonderful minds out there that do fantastic things to their boxes but the discussion of the NEW R15 IMHO should concern stock box to stock box. No HEMI's allowed. Right now somewhere in the US there is a 13 yr old with his folks R15 apart in the basement turbo charging it. In a year we'll all be talking about it.:grin:


I agree. I cannot compare my Tivos to the R15 fairly. I cannot compare my Tivos to any "out of the box" DVR fairly.

However, my Tivos do what they do. I want whatever I get next to do either the same or more. Maybe this is the DTV HMC. I haven't heard much anything about that.

Regarding your apples to apples. Here's the comparison I would run if you want to compare apples to apples. The R10 to the R15. I don't have a R15 as I have said many times before. But I have been reading comments here and, while I may be going out on a limb here, the comments I read clearly indicate the R15 does not come close to the R10 in reliability and features. Do you agree with disagree with that comparison?

Also, I would like to head off all of those that think comparing apples to apples means comparing the R15 to the first Series 1 Tivo that was released. Don't even think of making that argument. That's Bull.

DTV made the decision to go with NDS opposed to Tivo, they set their own development time-line, they set their own resources, they set their own goals. All of those should have been based on the current product they were selling. Anyone that gives them an inch of slack because they "started from scratch on this and need time to fix it" is living in some sort of fantasy world.

I will end by adding I hope these issues with the R15 are fixed. I know eventually I will need to dump my DTivos and move on. (Although as with Ultimate TV, DTivos could be around for many years). But at that time I will move to whom ever can provide a product with features closest to what I currently have.

I have been a DTV subscriber since '97. I have seen some pretty scrappy receivers that may or may not have gotten firmware upgrades to fix their problems. Over that time I have learned to take a "wait and see" attitude with DTV.


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

Got in late, I'll respond in the AM, have a good evening.


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> Regarding your apples to apples. Here's the comparison I would run if you want to compare apples to apples. The R10 to the R15. I don't have a R15 as I have said many times before. But I have been reading comments here and, while I may be going out on a limb here, the comments I read clearly indicate the R15 does not come close to the R10 in reliability and features. Do you agree with disagree with that comparison?
> 
> Also, I would like to head off all of those that think comparing apples to apples means comparing the R15 to the first Series 1 Tivo that was released. Don't even think of making that argument. That's Bull.
> 
> ...


R10 vs R15 - I Think that's a good battle. Now one does have TIVO software a big plus (I'll give you a question about that below)

R10 - As I never got one correct any of these correct any facts I screwed up.

R10 - 80 hrs
R15 - 100hrs

R10 - no PIP in guide mode
R15 - PIP in guide mode

R -10 TIVO software
R -15 no TIVO software

R - 10 Ability to switch between buffers
R -15 Only Active buffer

R -10 30 minute buffers
R -15 90 minute buffer (up to 4 hours when paused)

Now there are other minor differences, but I see most of them as "user" interface issues and as we've discussed, all of us do not use them the same.

Reliability, hmmmm, a harder one to judge. Many on here report problems, some (me included) have not really had any. Is this forum a good poll of that, probably not as I said before, most come here to lurk, complain, or help. Not a lot of "this is the greatest thing since toilet paper" accolades in any forum.

Now the TIVO software- I would really love to see it in the R15, but it's not. Follow me for a minute, or two.

What if, (and I have no knowledge of it, even sold my stock as it has plummeted) DTV made a offer to TIVO to purchase it. TIVO turned it down. DTV made another VERY good offer to purchase it. TIVO turned them down.

DTV (as most owners would) said, "screw it, we'll do our own".

Now, at least in my mind, DTV from a business sense did the only thing it could.

If (and I think the markets show it) TIVO continues to spiral, they may come back to DTV and say, "about that offer".

OK, my "let's suppose" is over.

As I said, I have no way of proving any of this, just a guy trying to retire, wondering who is running TIVO as they have a wonderful product but no one to buy it, I think they are missing the opportunities they had.

Yes, DTV is a big bad company (all cheer the little guy) but they (may have) stopped upgrading TIVO software as the first "I'm gonna leave you" shot. Somebody IMO should have got the message.

Is the software in the R15 not up to snuff? I think so, but it is far above the original TIVO software and below where TIVO software is now.

That is all fixable............ we hope.

Gotta go to work..........later!


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## ad301 (Mar 30, 2004)

ISWIZ said:


> R10 vs R15 - I Think that's a good battle......
> R10 - 80 hrs
> R15 - 100hrs


This is the major hardware difference between the two. (BTW, when my MyVOD was full, I had a total of 85.5 hrs recorded. YMMV.)



ISWIZ said:


> R10 - no PIP in guide mode
> R15 - PIP in guide mode
> 
> R -10 TIVO software
> ...


These are all the same thing, the software. You seem to want to equate PIP and 30 vs 90 minutes with TIVO vs no TIVO, when in reality, the PIP and buffers and everything else software related are subsets of THE major difference: TIVO vs no TIVO. It's obvious that you dislike the tivo software, for some reason. It's also obvious that you make limited demands on your dvr. If you record only a small number of series, and don't make use of search functions, then the software differences will seem smaller to you. If you are someone who makes more than minimal demands on your dvr, you will find the differences in the software to be much more apparent.



ISWIZ said:


> Reliability, hmmmm, a harder one to judge. Many on here report problems, some (me included) have not really had any. Is this forum a good poll of that, probably not as I said before, most come here to lurk, complain, or help. Not a lot of "this is the greatest thing since toilet paper" accolades in any forum.


If you can read the traffic here and think that the r15 is as reliable as a tivo unit, then you are just not being honest with yourself, or you have another agenda.

I've suggested this before, but perhaps you were afraid of the results. If you (or anyone, for that matter) really want to see what the r15 is capable of, you need to test it. Try loading up your prioritizer with 30 to 35 items. Make 5 or 6 of the items auto-recording finds. Any find by name would work. Also, use NBA or NHL teams that are available on RSNs in your market to see how a sports fan might use this function. (Find>Keyword>myteam>Show Type>Event). Move them to the bottom of the prioritizer. Make one of the auto-records for a football team playing in a game available on your networks this Sunday. Leave it at the top of the prioritizer. Then just let it churn away for a few days. Unless you have some type of "golden machine" unlike other r15s, I predict that you will see missed recordings, recordings on channels you don't receive, partial recordings, and recordings you didn't really want. Oh, and the occasional freeze-up for good measure. Can't you spend the 15 minutes or so it should take to set this up? Please let us know how it works out.



ISWIZ said:


> Is the software in the R15 not up to snuff? I think so, but it is far above the original TIVO software...


Wow....


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## ad301 (Mar 30, 2004)

BTW, if you're interested and didn't see it before, I did start a fairly in-depth side by side test of the r15 and r10. I reported on what I found in Earl's original thread, starting here: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=3465041&&#post3465041 and in a number of subsequent messages.

Also, I summarized a lot of what I found here: http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=476200&postcount=1


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

ad301,

Sorry if you feel I don't like TIVO, I think I actually addressed that in the part of the quote you snipped :

Originally Posted by ISWIZ
Is the software in the R15 not up to snuff? I think so, but it is far above the original TIVO software...

The actual quote can be read above but to save you time here it is again:

Is the software in the R15 not up to snuff? I think so, but it is far above the original TIVO software *and below where TIVO software is now*.

Reliability......... If you think that TIVO is without flaws you have not read all the posts in the TCF forum. Again, I was only pointing out (to someone else by the way) that I don't think the lack of "HOORAY MODEL XYZ" topics is an indicator of the number of happy users.

As you so brilliantly saw, I am "someone who makes more than minimal demands on your dvr". I have 3 of them and a job and a life. I can't watch much more than that without sleep. I think I'm about the average DVR user that the mass market is dealing with.

You, again, caught me. I do have another agenda. It is to try to help people using this DVR to get past the "send it back" and "get a TIVO" answers when they need help and to try to make this system better, just as I have over the years with the TIVO software.

TIVO fanatics are great but it's a big world and we should all help one another with whatever system we have knowledge of.

I guess I need to mention your TEST. I don't need it, I am recording currently the same shows on my box with TIVO and the R15 and have not yet (though I may soon) missed any recording. As I said elsewhere, I have gotten ones I didn't need but NONE missed.

Have a nice day.


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## ad301 (Mar 30, 2004)

ISWIZ said:


> I guess I need to mention your TEST. I don't need it, I am recording currently the same shows on my box with TIVO and the R15 and have not yet (though I may soon) missed any recording. As I said elsewhere, I have gotten ones I didn't need but NONE missed.


My whole point, which you have conveniently overlooked, is that you are not really testing your r15. You are just below the threshhold where real problems seem to start occuring regularly. You are afraid to tax it any further.



ISWIZ said:


> I do have another agenda. It is to try to help people using this DVR to get past the "send it back" and "get a TIVO" answers when they need help and to try to make this system better, just as I have over the years with the TIVO software.


I don't see how you can try to make this system better, when you refuse to even test it enough to determine what it's limits are, and what problems it may have. You seem to prefer to remain blissfully unaware of and unconcerned about issues which many people, not just me, have raised regarding this box.


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

ad301 said:


> My whole point, which you have conveniently overlooked, is that you are not really testing your r15. You are just below the threshhold where real problems seem to start occuring regularly. You are afraid to tax it any further.


And this appears to be the flaw in DirecTV's testing (such as it is). TiVo Beta testers, at least some of them, don't just use their systems--they abuse them. This is called guerilla testing (well, I had a coworker once who thought it was gorilla testing, but I digress). If you just use your system as you normally would and call that testing, you're not going to find bugs that will be found when someone else uses your system as they normally would.


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

Nope, you haven't found my button yet! Didn't see in any manual that you "need to test" your PVR prior to use. I'm real world testing and you seem to want to tell me mine isn't working. 

Looked under the sofa, you're not there.

So you have to crash your car in order to make it better? I bet I refuse to do that to. 

I am aware of the problems you (especially) and concerned about the problems others have but I was just to say I haven't seen it .... yet. If it will make you happy, I can add a disclaimer that I'm just a lowly average user.


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

walters said:


> And this appears to be the flaw in DirecTV's testing (such as it is). TiVo Beta testers, at least some of them, don't just use their systems--they abuse them. This is called guerilla testing (well, I had a coworker once who thought it was gorilla testing, but I digress). If you just use your system as you normally would and call that testing, you're not going to find bugs that will be found when someone else uses your system as they normally would.


I beta tested TIVO, yep did the whole "don't tell a soul" thing. TIVO never asked me to crash it either.

Your quote of "If you just use your system as you normally would and call that testing, you're not going to find bugs that will be found when someone else uses your system as they normally would." does confuse me though. I don't plan on letting "somone else" use my system.


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

ISWIZ said:


> I beta tested TIVO, yep did the whole "don't tell a soul" thing. TIVO never asked me to crash it either.


Well of course that's why I said "some of them". Some testers take pride in finding something wrong with the software they're testing because they feel they're a part of making it better.



> Your quote of "If you just use your system as you normally would and call that testing, you're not going to find bugs that will be found when someone else uses your system as they normally would." does confuse me though.


Apparently. The "you" and "your" in that refers to the person/company developing the system. I was talking about real testing, here, and DirecTV's failure to do so effectively, not the testing the R15 customers are doing today.


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## ronw41 (Nov 17, 2005)

Goodness folks. I have to admit that this is the first DVR I have ever used so I have no experience with the "Tivo" brand of DVR so l will apologize for my "lack of experience" with all the different brands and options. 

I didn't realize when I started "what I thought would be a very short question and answer thread about the prioritizer " that this would be so "far reaching" and become so huge. 

I appreciate all the input about the "prioritizer numbering scheme" and how it ranks in order of importance in the recording process.

The answer was given a while back, but again thanks to all.

Ron


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## LockMD (Nov 16, 2005)

ronw41 said:


> Goodness folks. I have to admit that this is the first DVR I have ever used so I have no experience with the "Tivo" brand of DVR so l will apologize for my "lack of experience" with all the different brands and options.
> 
> I didn't realize when I started "what I thought would be a very short question and answer thread about the prioritizer " that this would be so "far reaching" and become so huge.
> 
> ...


:lol: Your Welcome :lol:


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

Walters,

It was the syntax. I understood what you meant, just had to read it a few times to catch it. 

I could type in caps "TIVO is a better software" if it would help but the fact that I like the R15 too and have not had the problems some state doesn't change.

Some of the posters here were already finding fault with the R15 last July and to my knowledge it was not available anywhere. 

I'm sorry I don't march to the "if it ain't TIVO it ain't a DVR" band. 

Years ago, (age showing) I had an Austin Healy Sprite, twin carburetors, ran like a top as long as I kept tuning those twins. A lot of work but fun work. Now I drive one of those plain old cars, they get me where I want to go and it's now nice not to have to fool with those carbs all the time.

I think there are alot of folks out there that for "free" will find the R15 usable and will get as much enjoyment out of them as I have my $400 (lifetime) twin carb TIVO box.


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

See what you started, glad you got your answer Ron.


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## techNoodle (Nov 15, 2005)

I believe DirecTV probably tested the R15 "effectively", and are fully aware of all the bugs. Look at the manufacture date on the R15. Some were built in June! That implies they have been heavily testing since then, at least. To ship the R15 with current deficiencies was clearly a business decision for them. Right or wrong? Now that is another question...


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

What is the big deal? Dish sends out ALL of their receivers out with bugs and the customer becomes the beta tester till the receiver is either fixed or discontinued. Most of the time it is discontinued before all the bugs are fixed or until they give up on the software for it. Directv is now doing the same with their in house receivers. I guess they feel it will save them money just like Dish does.


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## Malibu13 (Sep 12, 2004)

maybe i'll step on some toes here ......maybe not but the fact is, that all of us here are not "torture testers", myself included. i have a DSR 708 and am pleased with its ease of accomplishing tasks and the reliability of getting them done. i also have an R15 and have found it to be performing well under my circumstances (an average DVR user). i have no need or desire to load it up with a bunch of crap, just to see what it can do. i also had no need to load up my TiVo based 708 either. this alone places me in the same category as ISWIZ and i have no problems with that.

do i want to get rid of my R15? Nope:nono2: .......do i want to get rid of my 708?:nono2: .........is a DVR running TiVo software, superior? Nope:nono2:....is the R15 inferior just because it's not running TiVo software? Nope:nono2: ..........it is inferior in its present state because of the bugs some are experiencing (myself included) but if i recall, from listening to others who have had TiVo since it first came about, it was a "piece of crap" also.

for those of us who have elected to purchase an R15, (for whatever reason it may be) we are here, looking for answers and helping where we can, in order to make this unit as reliable as possible. ( i'm bashing myself here as well), when i observe a heck of a lot of posts here that are merely provoking argument as to whether the R15 measures up to a TiVo. there are allot of "junk" posts (and i have made some, maybe even this one) that just clutter up the threads with assumptions that have no merit. opinions are great regardless of their substance but just about each thread started here, ends up in a "my dog is bigger than your dog".

if you don't like it because it's not a "TiVo", fine, we get it .....if it's just too unreliable for your particular needs, fine, we get that too .........if you're gonna send this "free" dvr back to where it came from, fine, we get it but i'm not sending mine back just because of "opinions" of some, that it is a piece of crap. 

now, if the problems continue without "high regard" to correcting them soon, then that brings up a different chain of thought. bugs, faults, glitches or whatever, need to be found and corrected but it ain't gonna happen after only 3 weeks of operation and it ain't gonna be found by trashing it because it won't run 120 miles per hour when it has 170 on the speedometer and it's engine is powered by NDS and not TiVo. :backtotop 

i'm sure my statement makes no sense to some ......as i am not very good at expressing things but there again "I'm just a lowly, average dvr user"


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

ad301 said:


> I don't see how you can try to make this system better, when you refuse to even test it enough to determine what it's limits are, and what problems it may have. You seem to prefer to remain blissfully unaware of and unconcerned about issues which many people, not just me, have raised regarding this box.


Maybe like the original, first line, true testers.

Fill in the following:

1) Does the blue light come on?
2) Does it play TV?

OK, pass.

Testing, "We don't need no stinking testing"!!!!!! :eek2:


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

ISWIZ said:


> I'm sorry I don't march to the "if it ain't TIVO it ain't a DVR" band.


Technically, I believe Tivo TradeMarked "DVR". Anything not Tivo is a PVR. So yes, if it ain't a Tivo, it ain't a DVR.

Please, correct me if I'm wrong.


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## Malibu13 (Sep 12, 2004)

Wolffpack, you "Stirring those coals" again?


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Sure, sometimes just reading gets boring. A boy just want's to have fun.


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

Digital video recorder
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

(Redirected from Personal video recorder)
Jump to: navigation, search

A digital video recorder (DVR) is a device that records video to a digital storage medium in digital form. The term DVR may be used to describe a piece of equipment such as a Personal Video Recorder (PVR) or a CCTV DVR. It may also be used to reference a function in a piece of equipment such as a digital video camera that has a DVR function built into it.

Television and video are terms that are sometimes used interchangeably but in their narrow definitions are different. Video is the visual portion of television where as television is video and audio modulated onto, (combined with), a carrier frequency, (television channel), so that it may be transported either wirelessly or over cables with many other frequencies, (channels).

Contents [hide]
1 History 
2 Personal Video Recorder (PVR) 
2.1 How a personal digital video recorder works 
2.1.1 Analog television 
2.1.2 Analog Broadcast Copy Protection 
2.1.3 Digital television 
2.1.4 Satellite or Digital Cable 
2.2 PVR software 
2.2.1 Linux 
2.2.2 Macintosh 
2.2.3 Windows 
3 Security application of DVRs 
3.1 Hardware Features 
3.2 Software Features 
4 See also 
5 External links

[edit]
History
The first disk recording of video was tested on July 8th, 1965, when CBS explored the possibilities of instant freeze-frame and rewind for sporting event broadcasts. Ampex released the first commercial hard disk video recorder in 1967. The HS-100 recorded analog video onto a digital hard disk and could store a maximum of 30 seconds. Kicking Bird

[edit]
Personal Video Recorder (PVR)
The personal video recorder (PVR) or digital personal video recorder, is a consumer electronics device that records television shows to a hard disk in digital format.

The two earliest consumer DVRs, ReplayTV and TiVo, were launched at the 1999 Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas. Ironically, although ReplayTV won the "Best of Show" award in the video category, it was Tivo that went on to much greater commercial success. The devices have steadily developed complementary abilities, such as recording onto DVDs, commercial skip, sharing of recordings over the Internet, and programming and remote control facilities using PDAs, networked PCs, or web browsers.

This makes the "time shifting" feature (traditionally done by a VCR) much more convenient, and also allows for "trick modes" such as pausing live TV, instant replay of interesting scenes, and skipping advertising. Most DVR recorders use the MPEG format for encoding analog video signals.

The most popular PVRs on the market in the United States are the TiVo and DNNA's ReplayTV, although most home electronics manufacturers now offer models. In the UK Sky Plus dominates the digital satellite market, though TiVO have a small presence; Thomson, Fusion, Pace and Humax also supply digital terrestrial (DTT) DVRs. Many satellite and cable companies are incorporating DVR functions into their set-top box, such as with DirecTiVo, Motorola 6xxx from Comcast, Moxi Media Center by Digeo (available through Charter, Adelphia, Sunflower, Bend Broadband, and soon Comcast and other cable companies), or Sky Plus. In this case there is no encoding necessary in the DVR, as the satellite signal is already a digitally encoded MPEG stream. The DVR simply stores the digital stream directly to disk. Having the broadcaster involved with (subsidizing) the design of the DVR, and directly recording encrypted digital streams can lead to fancy features - like the ability to use interactive TV on recorded shows, pre-loading of programs; but can also lead to too much control by the broadcaster - like denying the ability to skip adverts and automatically expiring recordings after a time determined by the broadcaster.

Other entrants into the market include products such as Microsoft's Media Center.

In 2003, the Yakima, Washington Police Department began using DVRs in their patrol cars to record the activities of officers and suspects. Since then, many other police departments have followed suit, due to the increased reliability and decreased cost compared to analog video systems.

There are ways to make one's own DVR using software and hardware available for Microsoft Windows, Linux and Macintosh operating systems. There are even people working on turning the Xbox into a DVR with a modchip.


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

I seem to have pissed off a few people here, so let me try and clarify a bit. I'm not telling anyone they're not using their R15 correctly or that they should be torture testing them. I am, however, saying that about the people who were actually responsible for testing them, which by all public accounts I've seen were DirecTV employees, possibly DirecTV executives. 

There is a strong possibility I'm wrong, here. Maybe it was tested very well, testers submitted bug reports, and these bug reports got marked "deferred for future release". No, that sort of thing never happens in software development 

My motivation isn't to trash the R15 as being "not TiVo", and certainly not to trash anyone who is happy with the R15. My motivation is to make the R15 good enough for me to want to replace my TiVos. It's got a few cool things that I'd like to have, but it's just not something I feel comfortable relying on today with regard to it's core functionality.


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

Walters,

Well spoken as I've always seen in the TCF before "banishment". I don't take seriously most of what is said unless someone chooses to make it about me and not the equipment/software/company or weather.
I always felt (still do) that TCF was a "family" and a great place to learn and just enjoy the company of others with like interests. Over the past couple years some of that polish has become tarnished.
I hope this forum can clean it up and become a positive place for folks to come and visit.


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

ISWIZ said:


> Walters,
> 
> Well spoken as I've always seen in the TCF before "banishment". I don't take seriously most of what is said unless someone chooses to make it about me and not the equipment/software/company or weather.
> I always felt (still do) that TCF was a "family" and a great place to learn and just enjoy the company of others with like interests. Over the past couple years some of that polish has become tarnished.
> I hope this forum can clean it up and become a positive place for folks to come and visit.


You were kicked out, too? What for? Or are you just talking about the R15-discussion ban?

(Wait, I can read that first sentence another way: talking about my banishment?)


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## ad301 (Mar 30, 2004)

walters said:


> My motivation isn't to trash the R15 as being "not TiVo", and certainly not to trash anyone who is happy with the R15. My motivation is to make the R15 good enough for me to want to replace my TiVos. It's got a few cool things that I'd like to have, but it's just not something I feel comfortable relying on today with regard to it's core functionality.


You could have been reading my mind when you wrote that.

I've stated this before: I believe that the open and free exchange of opinions will help, rather than hurt, the future development of this box. (Heck, who am I kidding? DirecTV doesn't care one iota about any discussion going on here.  ) But we've all got a vested interest, to one degree or another, in seeing the DirecTV dvrs become what they were touted as being, "even better than TiVo!". I try never to get too personal, criticizing only ideas and opinions which I disagree with, and challenging assertions of fact which I believe to be incorrect. I too am sorry if this causes discomfort among some. It goes the other way too. It makes me uncomfortable when I see people resorting to terms like "tivo-lover" or "whiner" to dismiss opinions they disagree with, or to try to stifle discussions which they don't like. I don't see that as being "helpful" in the least. (Once again, people, it's not about the name on the box, it's about the capabilities of that box.)


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## ad301 (Mar 30, 2004)

ISWIZ said:


> Nope, you haven't found my button yet! Didn't see in any manual that you "need to test" your PVR prior to use. I'm real world testing and you seem to want to tell me mine isn't working.


Oh well, I guess you're buttonless.  Look, I'm just a little surprised by your refusal to take part in a rather simple exercise. You profess to want to be helpful, then refuse to help in any way that exceeds your "normal" usage. You are obviously an intelligent fellow. I'd have thought a little bit of intellectual curiosity would kick in.



ISWIZ said:


> So you have to crash your car in order to make it better? I bet I refuse to do that to.


Now c'mon.  I'm not asking anybody to risk life or limb here. It's a simple software test of a box that we're all apparently beta testing anyway. There's no physical danger involved, and no chance of causing thousands of dollars in damage. It's all easily reversible with a few deletions. And BTW, when you get a new car, don't you head out to an open highway at some point (after suitable break-in, of course) and open her up, at least once, just to see what she can do?



ISWIZ said:


> I am aware of the problems you (especially) and concerned about the problems others have but I was just to say I haven't seen it .... yet. If it will make you happy, I can add a disclaimer that I'm just a lowly average user.


Thanks for acknowledging that there are problems being experienced. And don't worry, I am generally a very happy guy. My recent frustration and disappointment with this box has been taking a toll (can anybody tell?), but it's only TV, and I'll get over it.


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## Marcia_Brady (Nov 25, 2005)

_Originally Posted by ISWIZ
So you have to crash your car in order to make it better? I bet I refuse to do that to._

As long as we're doing analogies...you certainly don't have to crash your car, but for the safety of you and your family I think you'd want to know how that car fared in a crash, wouldn't you? Or whether it was reliable enough that it didn't break down after a month or two of driving?

If it runs fine around town now, but you expect to take a long trip in a couple months and you've heard that others are having 'car problems' on longer trips are you just going to buy a plane ticket instead?


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## ad301 (Mar 30, 2004)

db54 said:


> "torture testers"


Just curious, but at what number of items in the prioritizer does the transition occur, from acceptable normal usage to unfair "torture testing"?


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

Guys, and Marcia,

See all your notes, HS team in payoff game tonight so I won't be on but I hope you did see the comparison crash I posted early this A.M. about last night. I'll get back with yoy in the morning. If you want to hear some good ole' friday night lights go here: http://www.wsqlradio.com/

GO BREVARD

Have a great evening.....off to crash test my car!


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

ad301 said:


> Just curious, but at what number of items in the prioritizer does the transition occur, from acceptable normal usage to unfair "torture testing"?


I would say x+10 where x is the limit mentioned in the manual. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Oh, and I'd still expect that to work.


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

Well, teh team lost in the last 2 minutes of the game, damn R15 it's bound to be a bug


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## nabsltd (Nov 18, 2005)

Kanyon71 said:


> Tivo has no conflict resolution, it comes up and says these will not be recorded. Thats not resolution it's avoidance.


Correct, it says certain episodes won't be recorded, but it still lets you create the "conflicting" Season Pass.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

nabsltd said:


> Correct, it says certain episodes won't be recorded, but it still lets you create the "conflicting" Season Pass.


Humm. So the Tivo says "this conflicts with these shows" but lets you "do it anyway". The R15 says "this conflicts with these shows" and says...."too bad" you can't do this. Is that right?


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

This may be different from setting a SL but the resolution on requesting a single record on the R15 when it conflicts with 2 previously scheduled shows goes like this:

If you ask to record where 2 shows are already to be recorded you get 4 options:

1. Cancel first show- cancel first conflicting show
2. Cancel second show- cancel second conflicting show
3. Cancel this recording- cancel this new request
4. Record Next - it then records the next showing of the new request that has no conflict


I like this better than the TIVO way as it lets you "fix" that conflict in that one screen. I know this is one of the things in TCF we've clamored for over the years.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> Humm. So the Tivo says "this conflicts with these shows" but lets you "do it anyway". The R15 says "this conflicts with these shows" and says...."too bad" you can't do this. Is that right?


I don't think either it the correct approach. The question is though IS there a correct approach? Without adding more tuners or Networked Multi DVR Resolution there isn't much either of the boxes can really do.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Kanyon71 said:


> I don't think either it the correct approach. The question is though IS there a correct approach? Without adding more tuners or Networked Multi DVR Resolution there isn't much either of the boxes can really do.


I wasn't comparing the two methods, just wanted to make sure I had the R15 method correct.


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## ad301 (Mar 30, 2004)

ISWIZ said:


> This may be different from setting a SL but the resolution on requesting a single record on the R15 when it conflicts with 2 previously scheduled shows goes like this:
> 
> If you ask to record where 2 shows are already to be recorded you get 4 options:
> 
> ...


#4 on your list is nice, if it's properly implemented, and would be an improvement over tivo's way, which forces you to back out and look for other showings yourself.

However, before we get too carried away, there's the matter of whether #s 1 and 2 cancel just an individual showing (good) or an entire series link (very bad). Can someone please test this to see how it works?


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

As we're all seeing, we all use these different ways. As a result of these forums we learn from others. I agree there there is not really a right or wrong way, just different ways. If you came from a VCR environment to either box you'd think you found "the best".


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

ad301 said:


> #4 on your list is nice, if it's properly implemented, and would be an improvement over tivo's way, which forces you to back out and look for other showings yourself.
> 
> However, before we get too carried away, there's the matter of whether #s 1 and 2 cancel just an individual showing (good) or an entire series link (very bad). Can someone please test this to see how it works?


I'm not promising I'll get to it tonight. (trying to watch the last 12 movies on the TIVO box so I can move it to the back room.) But I'll see if I can find a confilict in shows I've got set already and give it a try. 
What I'd hope to see is another choice (like Palm) cancel series or THIS episode. Not holding my breath though.


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## nabsltd (Nov 18, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> Humm. So the Tivo says "this conflicts with these shows" but lets you "do it anyway". The R15 says "this conflicts with these shows" and says...."too bad" you can't do this. Is that right?


As far as I can tell from what others have said, yes...I don't have one of these pieces of junk.

TiVo recognizes that there are conflicts of some episodes in the current guide data, but rightly lets you still create the SP.

The R15 appears to look and see that there are conflicts of some episodes in the current guide data, and decide that if the conflict is with another "Series Link", it can't have both, so you must choose one.

This is similar to the problem that you can't set a "Series Link" for the same show on two different channels...as they said in _Highlander_, "there can be only one".


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

nabsltd said:


> This is similar to the problem that you can't set a "Series Link" for the same show on two different channels...as they said in _Highlander_, "there can be only one".


So if you want a SL for Seinfeld and it's on 3 channels you receive at various times you can only setup a SL for one channel?

Can you setup a "wish list"?


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> So if you want a SL for Seinfeld and it's on 3 channels you receive at various times you can only setup a SL for one channel?
> 
> Can you setup a "wish list"?


I think SL, unlike SP, span channels. I'm sure someone thought that was a good idea, but they were wrong.


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

In "testing" the SL as I did above it makes sense to me (which is OK as I'm the user of this one) the way it is working. If I set a SL on a "new" program and it already has one on each tuner set to record at that time, it takes the SL without comment. The reason being (I think) is that the PRIORITY of the "new" request is 1,
so it will be sure to record that show. After you file the request you can (and I do) move that priority down if you like. The TODO list shows a X (will not record) for conflicts.
Again, it's a different pattern/mindset from TIVO but as you all know, it's not TIVO. I have some conflicts but in looking at the TODO list, they stick out like a sore thumb. When there is a conflict on my TIVO boxes due to priority, it just doesn't record and I have to look back at the history to see why, after the fact.

They both are effective, just different and to the non-TIVO user should be fine. As with TIVO, it is hard to explain to someone who does not own one. I managed to hook my 2 kids on it only through them seeing the TIVO used, to them prior they had only vague idea's what it did.

That is why PVR's (plus cost) IMHO, have taken so long to catch on.


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

ISWIZ said:


> When there is a conflict on my TIVO boxes due to priority, it just doesn't record and I have to look back at the history to see why, after the fact.


"Recording History" is a terrible misnomer. You can (and probably should*) go there to find out what _won't be recorded in the future and why_. I do wish I could group them by reason, though, rather than sorting by time, since all those 28-day non-recordings get in the way of detecting conflicts.

* Even if you've got your priorities set perfectly, you never know when someone is going to "supersize" an episode or something and cause an unforeseen conflict.


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

To me, slight advantage to the R15 for the ease in seeing what will not be recording X, that is if it works properly. I try to check TODO even on my TIVO daily.


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