# D* doesn't want boxes back



## millertime (Sep 2, 2007)

I guess I own my H20 and HR20 csr says we no longer want those models returned. Huh fine by me!


----------



## dondude32 (Apr 3, 2003)

You can only reactivate those boxes. They are dead to anyone else.


----------



## Talent384 (Sep 3, 2011)

Ya... At least in my local market DTV has added those models to the scrap list, no longer recoverable or shipped out to others as refurbished products... Thank goodness!


----------



## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

The Hx-20 boxes are about 6 years old at this point. Most of them are probably past their mean time between failure rating.


----------



## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

My parents just had a HR21 go south, and D* said they dont want it back either.


----------



## Xsabresx (Oct 8, 2007)

Titan25 said:


> The Hx-20 boxes are about 6 years old at this point. Most of them are probably past their mean time between failure rating.


I know I got mine 5 1/2 years ago. What a horse it has been. It'll be a sad day when it finally goes.


----------



## naijai (Aug 19, 2006)

Davenlr said:


> My parents just had a HR21 go south, and D* said they dont want it back either.


I would recommend holding on to that HR21


----------



## Podkayne (Nov 1, 2007)

Xsabresx said:


> I know I got mine 5 1/2 years ago. What a horse it has been. It'll be a sad day when it finally goes.


This.

I didn't even get HD until July 2007, and that's when I get my HR20-100. Added a 2TB external and both have been chugging for more than 5 years. I get a persistent "signal on tuner 2" issue that cleans up after a hard boot, but comes back in a few weeks. I also get a "failed external hard drive" every time I do a test, but it keeps on working.

Having been with DTV since Sept 1994 I prefer a stable system. However this one is showing some signs of instability. I've never called DTV and asked for anything for free, but I may try it just to see what my account is worth to them.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Davenlr said:


> My parents just had a HR21 go south, and D* said they dont want it back either.


Amazing. They don't want a box back they never should have made in the first place.... :lol:

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Titan25 said:


> The Hx-20 boxes are about 6 years old at this point. Most of them are probably past their mean time between failure rating.


Does this have anything to do with depreciation? I know, in industry, most equipment can be depreciated for fifteen years. I have no idea how long that would be for a DVR.

Rich


----------



## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

Electronics and pc type devices are 3-5 years depending on the company


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Xsabresx said:


> I know I got mine 5 1/2 years ago. What a horse it has been. It'll be a sad day when it finally goes.


Saddens me every time I lose one. I've got one that's rebooting a lot and I have a lot of recordings on it and hate to lose it. I've shut down 3 of them in the last month. Still nothing wrong, just had a chance to upgrade them to 24s.

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

naijai said:


> I would recommend holding on to that HR21


Yup. I'd keep that for a long, long time.

Rich


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

If old *owned* units are still working...there's no reason to get rid of them for a while. It provides a backup alternative in case of emergency.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

CCarncross said:


> Electronics and pc type devices are 3-5 years depending on the company


Ah, that makes more sense now. If they can't depreciate the leased receivers there's not much point in servicing them. My wife explained how depreciation works when they came out with the leasing plan and she thought it was a wise decision, at the time. I think I got my first 21-700 (which was a fine DVR, just not as quick as the 20-700s, but very dependable) in 2008, I guess they might be on track to be "unwanted" pretty soon.

Rich


----------



## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

Our HR20-500's external hard drive crashed last week. Since we lost all the recordings, we took the opportunity to replace it with a HR24. Looking at the internal drive, the oldest recording is from 2/2007, so it was at least 5 1/2 years old. DirecTv doesn't want it back, so we'll keep it around as a backup.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> If old *owned* units are still working...there's no reason to get rid of them for a while. It provides a backup alternative in case of emergency.


I'm gonna sell all my owned 20-700s and hold on to the leased units.

Rich


----------



## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

Rich said:


> Does this have anything to do with depreciation? I know, in industry, most equipment can be depreciated for fifteen years. I have no idea how long that would be for a DVR.
> 
> Rich


Yes, I made this point as well back when DirecTV initially switched to a leased model. A sold receiver is a sunk cost, a leased receiver is a depreciable asset.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Titan25 said:


> Our *HR20-500*'s external hard drive crashed last week. Since we lost all the recordings, we took the opportunity to replace it with a HR24. Looking at the internal drive, the oldest recording is from 2/2007, so it was at least 5 1/2 years old. DirecTv doesn't want it back, so we'll keep it around as a backup.


20-700?

Are you sure the external device wasn't bad and not the HDD?

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Titan25 said:


> Yes, I made this point as well back when DirecTV initially switched to a leased model. A sold receiver is a sunk cost, a leased receiver is a depreciable asset.


Yup, the wife thought that was a great move. She's done a lot of work with depreciable assets for large corporations.

My spell checker doesn't recognize depreciable as a word, why is that? Just Googled it and it is a word. Dumb spell checker.... :lol:

Rich


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Rich said:


> I'm gonna sell all my owned 20-700s and hold on to the leased units.


I can see that....but some H21 and HR21 units here still worked great, so they are nice "spares" if/when needed.


----------



## Joe Spears (Dec 24, 2010)

I don't really believe this but in the description of this HR24-100 for sale on eBay the seller says _"This receiver was about to be thrown away by a roommate that just moved out of our house. Apparently when he canceled his DirecTV, *they told him to just throw it away*. He said I could have it and now I am selling it. Not sure if it is owned or leased and able to be activated on a new account."_ :eek2:

LINK to eBay Listing

They do have 100% feedback...


----------



## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Feedback for what? Looks like he's disclosed absolutely everything. What could you go back to him on?


----------



## Joe Spears (Dec 24, 2010)

Laxguy said:


> Feedback for what? Looks like he's disclosed absolutely everything. What could you go back to him on?


Do you really think that D* told him to throw away an HR24? I don't understand why they would NOT want a receiver that new sent back.


----------



## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

No one will ever know what, if anything, DIRECTV® said to the departed roomie. 

The buyer will be faced with a conundrum if he gets it and tries to activate it and then is told it's DIRECTV's property. At the same time, everything has been disclosed by the seller. 

A prudent buyer would check the serial numbers first.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I can see that....but some H21 and HR21 units here still worked great, so they are nice "spares" if/when needed.


I've got four spares active on my account... :lol:

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Laxguy said:


> No one will ever know what, if anything, DIRECTV® said to the departed roomie.
> 
> The buyer will be faced with a conundrum if he gets it and tries to activate it and then is told it's DIRECTV's property. At the same time, everything has been disclosed by the seller.
> 
> A prudent buyer would check the serial numbers first.


Can't check the serial numbers, have to check the RID numbers. I asked about that last week when I was checking RID numbers trolling for a bargain.

Rich


----------



## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Rich said:


> Can't check the serial numbers, have to check the RID numbers. I asked about that last week when I was checking RID numbers trolling for a bargain.
> 
> Rich


So, DIRECTV® can't x-ref. RIDs with the serial no.?


----------



## davring (Jan 13, 2007)

My two HR20-700's have been very reliable, we utilize OTA on both and with rainy summer weather its a great option. I replaced the drive in one a year ago and the other is on its second replacement. I"ll keep them running until something major fails. Years ago I was cautioned about opening leased units, but now it looks like it no longer matters


----------



## RBTO (Apr 11, 2009)

davring said:


> My two HR20-700's have been very reliable, we utilize OTA on both and with rainy summer weather its a great option.........


Ditto to that. My HR20 has been great until all this GUI nonsense, but it still works fine and other than a very occasional software burp, is solid as a rock. Had to replace the HD once in about 10 years. I have an H20 also, and other than not having record capability, I prefer it since it boots quick, has NO lag in menu selections or cursor movements, and has a GUI that you can actually see well. Only issue with it is cooling which an external manifold took care of nicely. Off air capability is definitely worth it for both these machines! Older is not necessarily a weakness.


----------



## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

My HR20 is still my best dvr....quicker than either of my HR22's....HR20's came out summer of 2006, so no one's is older than 6ish. Still all 3 of mine work pretty flawlessly.


----------



## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

Got my parents refurbed HR21-100 installed this afternoon, and turns out D* thought it was replacing an HR20, not another HR21. When they shut the HR20 off by mistake, and realized it was the HR21 being swapped, they said to hold on to it until a recovery kit arrives, so looks like its only the HR20's they are no longer wanting back


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Laxguy said:


> So, DIRECTV® can't x-ref. RIDs with the serial no.?


Apparently not. I talked to Joe in the Access Card department, I seem to get him quite a bit for some reason, and he told me they could not use the serial number, I have no idea why.

Has anyone got any idea where the RID number is stored on the HRs?

Rich


----------



## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

Laxguy said:


> Feedback for what? Looks like he's disclosed absolutely everything. What could you go back to him on?


He even has a pic of the RID 0357 0637 3574


----------



## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

Rich said:


> 20-700?
> 
> Are you sure the external device wasn't bad and not the HDD?
> 
> Rich


Yes, my mistake, 20-700. Definitely the drive...tried it in another known working enclosure.


----------



## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

Rich said:


> Apparently not. I talked to Joe in the Access Card department, I seem to get him quite a bit for some reason, and he told me they could not use the serial number, I have no idea why.
> 
> Has anyone got any idea where the RID number is stored on the HRs?
> 
> Rich


There's a sticker inside the access card door with the information. It should also be on the label for the receiver.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Titan25 said:


> Yes, my mistake, 20-700. Definitely the drive...tried it in another known working enclosure.


Always worth trying.

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Shades228 said:


> There's a sticker inside the access card door with the information. It should also be on the label for the receiver.


That's not what I meant. The RID# must be on the HR somewhere, the flash drive?

Rich


----------



## smitbret (Mar 27, 2011)

Rich said:


> That's not what I meant. The RID# must be on the HR somewhere, the flash drive?
> 
> Rich


... the flash drive?


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

smitbret said:


> ... the flash drive?


Not sure what the proper terminology is, but it's "flash" something. It's also where the OS resides.

Rich


----------



## boukengreen (Sep 22, 2009)

Rich said:


> Not sure what the proper terminology is, but it's "flash" something. It's also where the OS resides.
> 
> Rich


flash memory maybe


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

boukengreen said:


> flash memory maybe


Maybe, I dunno.

Rich


----------



## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

I don't think the DVRs have actual flash memory. They have EEPROMs that hold the OS kernel and boot code. I suspect the RID# is there, or in some other PROM on the main board.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Titan25 said:


> I don't think the DVRs have actual flash memory. They have EEPROMs that hold the OS kernel and boot code. I suspect the RID# is there, or in some other PROM on the main board.


Hear that whooshing sound? That was your post going right over my head... :lol:

I'm not up on that kind of terminology, could you explain it in simpler terms? I don't even know what a kernel is, much less an EEPROM... :nono2:

Rich


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Here is a previous Post by Doug Brott that talks about the Flash Memory.

"http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2265179#post2265179"

Here is the part that talks about Flash Memory. "DIRECTV loads the firmware into a temporary flash memory location, then verifies the integrity of the firmware and then moves it to the default flash memory location and restarts the receiver. All of the "stuff" is in memory. All of the programming and internal log information is kept on disk, but it does not change during a restart or new download."


----------



## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

Most people are familiar with RAM (Random Access Memory), which is read/write, and ROM (Read Only Memory), which is, well, read only.  RAM is used for volatile storage, and ROM is sued for things you don't want the computer to ever forget, like how to read the boot sectors on a drive.

Strictly speaking, ROM chips are programmed at manufacture, and are unchangeable. To allow upgrades, EPROMS were invented, which could be erased and reprogrammed. But EPROMS needed to be exposed to a UV light to be erased - not too convenient for field updates. So, EEPROMS were developed, which can be erased by applying the right voltage to the right pins. ROMs, EPROMs and EEPROMs are all non-volatile - they require no power to retain their code. 

Flash memory is a later form of EEPROM. In the industry, there is a convention to reserve the term EEPROM to byte-wise erasable memories compared to block-wise erasable flash memories. EEPROM takes more die area than flash memory for the same capacity because each cell usually needs both a read, write and erase transistor, while in flash memory the erase circuits are shared by large blocks of cells.

I suspect the DVRs use traditional EEPROMs because that is more common when executable code is being stored. But, in the end, it is a very technical distinction.


----------



## Dazed & Confused (Jun 13, 2007)

My original HD receiver (HR20-100) is still going today,and is by far better than the POS HR22 I have in the bedroom. It gets a little cranky from time to time, but I am just praying it lasts until the 22's & 23's have also been flushed out of the system.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Titan25 said:


> Most people are familiar with RAM (Random Access Memory), which is read/write, and ROM (Read Only Memory), which is, well, read only.  RAM is used for volatile storage, and ROM is sued for things you don't want the computer to ever forget, like how to read the boot sectors on a drive.
> 
> Strictly speaking, ROM chips are programmed at manufacture, and are unchangeable. To allow upgrades, EPROMS were invented, which could be erased and reprogrammed. But EPROMS needed to be exposed to a UV light to be erased - not too convenient for field updates. So, EEPROMS were developed, which can be erased by applying the right voltage to the right pins. ROMs, EPROMs and EEPROMs are all non-volatile - they require no power to retain their code.
> 
> ...


Thanx, I understood that. I think. 

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Dazed & Confused said:


> My original HD receiver (HR20-100) is still going today,and is by far better than the POS HR22 I have in the bedroom. It gets a little cranky from time to time, but I am just praying it lasts until the 22's & 23's have also been flushed out of the system.


Interesting user name. I've felt like that since the advent of the 20-700s in 2006. In fact, I'm still amazed that some folks still have 20-100s that are running. I've never had one that worked.

It's gonna take a long time to get the 21 series out of the warehouses and into dumpsters (or wherever they go to die). I think.

Rich


----------



## makaiguy (Sep 24, 2007)

My trusty old HR20-700's hard drive finally bit the dust. Was replaced under the protection plan, and as long as I was at it, I had them roll a truck and upgrade me to SWM, Whole Home, and Cinema Connection Kit. Best deal I could talk them into was no equipment charge for the upgrade, and paid only installation ($50-something). To get this deal I had to order the whole home upgrade including two HD receivers I didn't want, then just have the installers put the two receivers back in the truck. Strange way to do it, but what the heck.

As the replacement receiver I received a new HR24-500 (much better looking on the equipment shelves). Anyway, the reason for the post: The installers did take the old HR20-700 away with them.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

makaiguy said:


> My trusty old HR20-700's hard drive finally bit the dust. Was replaced under the protection plan, and as long as I was at it, I had them roll a truck and upgrade me to SWM, Whole Home, and Cinema Connection Kit. Best deal I could talk them into was no equipment charge for the upgrade, and paid only installation ($50-something). To get this deal I had to order the whole home upgrade including two HD receivers I didn't want, then just have the installers put the two receivers back in the truck. Strange way to do it, but what the heck.
> 
> As the replacement receiver I received a new HR24-500 (much better looking on the equipment shelves). Anyway, the reason for the post: *The installers did take the old HR20-700 away with them.*


If the 20-700 was leased, it probably doesn't matter, but they should have left it with you. If it was owned, you should have kept it, that does matter as they are still easy to sell on eBay and CL.

Rich


----------



## makaiguy (Sep 24, 2007)

Rich said:


> If the 20-700 was leased, it probably doesn't matter, but they should have left it with you. If it was owned, you should have kept it, that does matter as they are still easy to sell on eBay and CL.


No, it was leased, so when DirecTV's reps wanted to take it I figured it was their right.


----------



## steinmeg (Nov 23, 2006)

Rich said:


> Amazing. They don't want a box back they never should have made in the first place.... :lol:
> 
> Rich


Yes, but remember it was the only one that had the extra port for an off air antenna. Now you need an additional attachment( AM 21) to get the off air channels, which come in handy when D goes down......


----------



## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

steinmeg said:


> Yes, but remember it was the only one that had the extra port for an off air antenna. Now you need an additional attachment( AM 21) to get the off air channels, which come in handy when D goes down......


Rich was referring to the HR21, which did require a AM21 for off-air reception. Only the HR20 had a built in off-air receiver. The HR20 was a great unit. It was faster than the later units, until the advent of the HR24. We only replaced our HR20 a couple of weeks ago, mainly because we felt we were tempting fate to start over building up a collection of recordings on it.


----------



## west99999 (May 12, 2007)

Rich said:


> If the 20-700 was leased, it probably doesn't matter, but they should have left it with you. If it was owned, you should have kept it, that does matter as they are still easy to sell on eBay and CL.
> 
> Rich


No he should not have left it. If a tech replaces a receiver they are suppose to take the old one no matter what model it is. Just because it isnt refurbished doesnt mean some of the parts cant be recycled which is what they do with old outdated receivers and aslo DTV wants the access card back.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

west99999 said:


> No he should not have left it. If a tech replaces a receiver they are suppose to take the old one no matter what model it is. Just because it isnt refurbished doesnt mean some of the parts cant be recycled which is what they do with old outdated receivers and aslo DTV wants the access card back.


One more time: * D* IS NOT RECOVERING 20-700S OR 20-100S. CAN I MAKE THAT ANY CLEARER? *

I think that's the closest I've come to a "rant" in quite a while... :lol:

Rich


----------



## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

Rich, if the tech doing the service call goes to take it, you think we have any right to stop them unless the unit was truly owned in the 1st place? Chill out a little there bud.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

CCarncross said:


> Rich, if the tech doing the service call goes to take it, you think we have any right to stop them unless the unit was truly owned in the 1st place? Chill out a little there bud.


I've had to explain to Techs and a supervisor twice in the last month that the 20s weren't recoverable. Both times they called to confirm that they should leave my leased 20-700s with me and twice they were told to leave them. Takes a while for the word to get out in our little world and in D*'s little world. Always confusion where there is little communication. So, yes, I did think I had the right to stop them and both times the guys apologized. Don't know what I'm ever gonna do with a leased 20-700, but, at least, I know where they are.

Rich


----------



## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

There are going to be liability issues here. You can't just throw them away due to the nature of the components, just like you can't put old pc's in the trash. If they are not recovering them to be refurbed, then at the very least they should be collecting them to be destroyed. You can't sell them on because they essentially are being de-commisioned at the time the tech replaces them, etc....If its being replaced by another model, due to getting say a 24, or 34, give it to the tech to dispose of. Especially if its broken.


----------



## wahooq (Oct 19, 2011)

Rich.... non-recoverable doesnt mean that the techs wont take them. They will and are supposed to....non-recoverable just means you wont get charged for not returning them. Remember....even though they are non-recoverable doesn't mean that you own them. You cant sell them ....


----------



## wahooq (Oct 19, 2011)

And they wont be supported or replaced...


----------



## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

To clarify they have been added to the scrap list so tech's are required to take them and then send them off to get recycled. If a replacement is sent out a return kit will not be sent and disposal will be up to the customer.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

wahooq said:


> Rich.... non-recoverable doesnt mean that the techs wont take them. They will and are supposed to....non-recoverable just means you wont get charged for not returning them. Remember....even though they are non-recoverable doesn't mean that you own them. You cant sell them ....


I do understand how the new protocol involving the 20s works. I was just hesitant about the status of the 20-700s that I owned and the Tech and supervisor (note the lack of capitalization, the guy knew little about the equipment, nice guy, but not knowledgeable) both times wanted to take the 20-700s with them. I stopped them because they were owned and I didn't know if the status changed as it would if I swapped out an owned 24 for a new one. In that case the owned 24 that was recovered by the installer would be put back in leased status.

Just got off the phone with ACT and the CSR confirmed that they would remain owned and could be sold.

Rich


----------



## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

Rich said:


> I do understand how the new protocol involving the 20s works. I was just hesitant about the status of the 20-700s that I owned and the Tech and supervisor (note the lack of capitalization, the guy knew little about the equipment, nice guy, but not knowledgeable) both times wanted to take the 20-700s with them. I stopped them because they were owned and I didn't know if the status changed as it would if I swapped out an owned 24 for a new one. In that case the owned 24 that was recovered by the installer would be put back in leased status.
> 
> Just got off the phone with ACT and the CSR confirmed that they would remain owned and could be sold.
> 
> Rich


If they were replaced for technical reasons it doesn't matter if they're owned or not the tech should have taken them. If it was due to an upgrade then you should have retained them.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Shades228 said:


> If they were replaced for technical reasons it doesn't matter if they're owned or not the tech should have taken them. If it was due to an upgrade then you should have retained them.


That would seem logical, but that's not what the ACT just told me. I'll run one of the owned 20-700s that was owned and deactivated thru ACT later and see how it comes up.

The leased 20-700s I don't care about.

Rich


----------



## netraa (Mar 28, 2007)

If an IRD comes off my truck on a service call, the old one goes back to the warehouse.

If an IRD comes off my truck for a swap replace type upgrade, the old one goes back to the warehouse.

If it is a straight up upgrade, and you just want it in the place the old one was, you keep it, and turning the old one off is your responsibility.


In the case of 1 and 2 above, if the customer insists on keeping it, I am not going to argue with you, but you will be signing a form that states that you are keeping the IRD's and it will have the rid, and access card numbers on them. That then gets filed with *D and recover becomes their and your problem.


----------



## HarleyD (Aug 31, 2006)

Rich said:


> It's gonna take a long time to get the 21 series out of the warehouses and into dumpsters (or wherever they go to die). I think.


Well, I ordered an HD-DVR Friday and today I received a brand, spanking-used HR-21. No remote. No cables. Just the box and the power cord.

It wasn't dead, just severely disabled. It looked dead. When I plugged it in the ethernet LEDs came on momentarily then everything was dark.

So for kicks I hooked it up to a TV and plugged it in, again the etherned LEDs came on and then everything went dark, but on the screen it was going through the initialization sequence.

Eventually it came up to the first setup screen where you select the language but I could not communicate with it. It did not respond to the remote control. It did not respond when I pressed SELECT on the front panel It acted almost like the front panel was unplugged from the mother board.

I called and the CSR said my order specified "receiver only" thus no remote or cables. I told her the unit I was replacing was not an HR-2X and I would require those things. She apologized and put in for a replacement.

So the "new" HR-21 is on its' way back...and another unit is on its' way to me.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

HarleyD said:


> Well, I ordered an HD-DVR Friday and today I received a brand, spanking-used HR-21. No remote. No cables. Just the box and the power cord.
> 
> It wasn't dead, just severely disabled. It looked dead. When I plugged it in the ethernet LEDs came on momentarily then everything was dark.
> 
> ...


That sounds like the power supply is bad, just a guess, but it should make you rethink the urban myth of "refurbishing" that D* keeps pushing. No way that HR should have been sent to you in that condition. The last step in any refurbishing process should be a test of the device to see if it works. Keep fighting, you'll eventually win.

Rich


----------



## HarleyD (Aug 31, 2006)

If the power supply was bad it wouldn't have done anything at all.

It initialized, it started up, it output video, it got to the first setup screen.

I just couldn't communicate with it. The IR sensor and all the front panel buttons and LEDs were dead. The "brains" were working.

I don't have a problem with the refurbishing program. I've gotten defective equipment that was new in the box so brand new is no guarantee of 100% functionality either.

As long as they stand behind it the same as a new item (i.e. "as good as new") I'm OK with it.


----------



## KSbugeater (Feb 17, 2005)

I had a HR20-100 HDD go bad. I called it in, and D* replaced it with an HR21 (drop-shipped). I have not returned the HR20-100 (partly because the initialization phone call for the replacement was cut off before they told me to return the HR20). Lo and behold, I was charged $250 on Sunday for not returning the HR20. Should I call and ask to keep it for free since Rich was told they don't want them back? I would love to use it as an OTA receiver or as a spare DVR with an eSATA drive.


----------



## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

If you want to use it, it would have to remain active on your D* account at $6/month to be useable. So you can either call and request a return recovery kit for it, or do what you would like to do.


----------



## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

Cancelled my D* service 2 months ago, never returned my HR20-100, never got charged.

Here we go again with D* inconsistencies with how they treat customers.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

HarleyD said:


> *If the power supply was bad it wouldn't have done anything at all.*
> 
> It initialized, it started up, it output video, it got to the first setup screen.
> 
> I just couldn't communicate with it. The IR sensor and all the front panel buttons and LEDs were dead. The "brains" were working.


I've just started to get into power supplies. I don't pretend to know all that much about them, but some functions do work with a bad PS. For instance, I had one 24-500 with what I now know was a bad PS, but that thing puzzled me because the HDD still was spinning and the fan was trying to. I think they get their power from the PS, not sure (I do know the fan gets its power from the HDD). Could not find any other path that would suggest they don't get their power from the PS. Replaced it with a PS I knew was good and it's been working as it should.

So far, I've replaced three PSs in three 24-500s and doing that solved the problems we were having with them.

Rich


----------



## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Not necessarily. There can be differences in treatment of the HR20s depending on whether it's a replacement, an upgrade or an expansion of service. Whether it's owned or not. 

Finally, some inconsistencies that may arise due to regional practices ain't no biggie unless you're looking to find fault. 

Two days ago, I got an HR34, and the tech was prepared to take the HR20. I said I wanted to keep it; no problem.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

KSbugeater said:


> I had a HR20-100 HDD go bad. I called it in, and D* replaced it with an HR21 (drop-shipped). I have not returned the HR20-100 (partly because the initialization phone call for the replacement was cut off before they told me to return the HR20). Lo and behold, I was charged $250 on Sunday for not returning the HR20. Should I call and ask to keep it for free since Rich was told they don't want them back? I would love to use it as an OTA receiver or as a spare DVR with an eSATA drive.


This illustrates how poorly the communications between folks at D* are. Call Retention and tell them what happened. That should be taken care of quickly. I just turned in two 20-700s that were leased. I've kept the owned 20-700s I have and checked with ACT and they're still listed as owned. They were deactivated by the installer.

Rich


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Laxguy said:


> Not necessarily. There can be differences in treatment of the HR20s depending on whether it's a replacement, an upgrade or an expansion of service. Whether it's owned or not.
> 
> Finally, some inconsistencies that may arise due to regional practices ain't no biggie unless you're looking to find fault.
> 
> Two days ago, I got an HR34, and the tech was prepared to take the HR20. I said I wanted to keep it; no problem.


Bottom line seems to be the HR20 is now something more for the Smithsonian than any replacement inventory item.


----------



## ChE74 (May 1, 2009)

I cancelled DTV about 7 wks ago. I have 2 HR 20-100s. Initially was told I would be receiving recover kits. After a number of weeks none showed up. Called DTV and was told they didn't want them back but, may want the activation cards. After several more weeks didn't receive any request for the cards so I still have them. Another call to DTV and they said they probably don't want the cards either. (I do have that CSR's emp. no. and date and time recorded.) Some time ago received a final bill with no charges for unrecoved eqp. and with a refund for remaining unused service. Still don't know what to do with their HRs and I'm reluctant to dispose of them. 

Anybody any suggestions?


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

ChE74 said:


> I cancelled DTV about 7 wks ago. I have 2 HR 20-100s. Initially was told I would be receiving recover kits. After a number of weeks none showed up. Called DTV and was told they didn't want them back but, may want the activation cards. After several more weeks didn't receive any request for the cards so I still have them. Another call to DTV and they said they probably don't want the cards either. (I do have that CSR's emp. no. and date and time recorded.) Some time ago received a final bill with no charges for unrecoved eqp. and with a refund for remaining unused service. Still don't know what to do with their HRs and I'm reluctant to dispose of them.
> 
> -Anybody any suggestions?


Your local dump should have a section for computers or you can give them to any installer. If any of you have any questions, call the ACT at 877-887-7994. They should be able to answer your questions.

Rich


----------



## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

If not inconvenient, stick them on a shelf and forget about it for a few more months. Otherwise, your local electronics disposary. 

I am keeping mine as a backup as well if I really need to record something off air.


----------



## HarleyD (Aug 31, 2006)

Rich said:


> I've just started to get into power supplies. I don't pretend to know all that much about them, but some functions do work with a bad PS. For instance, I had one 24-500 with what I now know was a bad PS, but that thing puzzled me because the HDD still was spinning and the fan was trying to. I think they get their power from the PS, not sure (I do know the fan gets its power from the HDD). Could not find any other path that would suggest they don't get their power from the PS. Replaced it with a PS I knew was good and it's been working as it should.
> 
> So far, I've replaced three PSs in three 24-500s and doing that solved the problems we were having with them.
> 
> Rich


Power supplies can be a tricky thing since they can be supplying multiple voltages to different circuits and some voltages can go out while others remain.

I don't believe there is a dedicated power bus for the front panel on an HR2X.

I'm going out on a limb there and may get corrected in short order. I'm going largely on what I have seen on other consumer electronics with control panels made up of switches, LEDs and perhaps a mini display tube like VCRs, DVD players, CD players and the like. I've never ripped into an HR2X.

Perhaps one of our "first look" experts will set me straight. I learn new stuff all the time. Most of what I learn is that I know less than I thought.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

HarleyD said:


> Power supplies can be a tricky thing since they can be supplying multiple voltages to different circuits and some voltages can go out while others remain.
> 
> I don't believe there is a dedicated power bus for the front panel on an HR2X.


So, where does the front panel get its power source from? I'm just learning about the power supplies and I can't see where the power source for that front panel comes from other than the PS. I do know that each of the three PSs I've replaced in HR-24-500s supplied the power to the front panel, which wouldn't light up in any of the three.



> I'm going out on a limb there and may get corrected in short order. I'm going largely on what I have seen on other consumer electronics with control panels made up of switches, LEDs and perhaps a mini display tube like VCRs, DVD players, CD players and the like. I've never ripped into an HR2X.
> 
> Perhaps one of our "first look" experts will set me straight. I learn new stuff all the time. Most of what I learn is that I know less than I thought.


I do know that the 20-700s have a PS that is integrated into the motherboard. If I'm wrong about that, somebody should correct me.

Yeah, I'd like to see someone more tech-savvy than I am step in here and help you sort out your problem. We'd both learn from that.

Rich


----------



## HarleyD (Aug 31, 2006)

Rich said:


> So, where does the front panel get its power source from? I'm just learning about the power supplies and I can't see where the power source for that front panel comes from other than the PS. I do know that each of the three PSs I've replaced in HR-24-500s supplied the power to the front panel, which wouldn't light up in any of the three.
> 
> I do know that the 20-700s have a PS that is integrated into the motherboard. If I'm wrong about that, somebody should correct me.
> 
> ...


Wll yes, the power for the front panel originates at the PS, but generally there is a cable or other connector that links the control panel circuitry to the rest of the unit. If that cable or connector isn't connected the front panel will be dead even if the power supply is good.

That is what appeared to me to be the case. That a cable for the control panel came loose or otherwise failed. LEDs, switches and IR receiver were all not functioning.

That is simplistinc, knee-jerk troubleshooting...pure specultaion...but it wan't my problem to fix either. It didn't work, send me one that does.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

HarleyD said:


> Wll yes, the power for the front panel originates at the PS, but generally there is a cable or other connector that links the control panel circuitry to the rest of the unit. If that cable or connector isn't connected the front panel will be dead even if the power supply is good.
> 
> That is what appeared to me to be the case. That a cable for the control panel came loose or otherwise failed. LEDs, switches and IR receiver were all not functioning.
> 
> That is simplistinc, knee-jerk troubleshooting...pure specultaion...but it wan't my problem to fix either. It didn't work, send me one that does.


I have opened some boxes and found connectors not attached properly, but that's a rarity. Once the connectors from the PS in a 24-500 are plugged in they do not come out easily.

Rich


----------



## HarleyD (Aug 31, 2006)

Rich said:


> I have opened some boxes and found connectors not attached properly, but that's a rarity. Once the connectors from the PS in a 24-500 are plugged in they do not come out easily.
> 
> Rich


Which, as you pointed out earlier, calls their quality control into question.

How are the refurbs tested? Do they just plug the assembled unit in and see if it boots up? If so the box I got would have passed.

Do they actually test that they can interact with the completely assembled box once it boots? It didn't look like it.

It's possible that they test the control panel on a test fixture prior to installing it and not as part of the completed whole.

I would guess that there is an "acceptable level" of failure in the boxes they send out. That there is some level of testing that they have determined is good enough and doing better than that becomes a labor of diminishing return, that it costs too much to bridge that gap between acceptable success and 100% success.

If their quality testing of refurbs is 99.5 successful that may be considered good enough. That would still mean that 5 out of every 1000 refurbs don't work right.

"Acceptable" levels of anything can be unsettling. For example the USDA recognizes an "acceptable" level of rat feces in food processing. Don't wanna' think about that too long.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

HarleyD said:


> Which, as you pointed out earlier, calls their quality control into question.
> 
> How are the refurbs tested? Do they just plug the assembled unit in and see if it boots up? If so the box I got would have passed.
> 
> ...


I haven't seen any evidence of refurbishing being done and I've had an awful lot of replacements. Some came DOA. How can that happen? Some came that wouldn't recognize any remote. How can that happen? Some came that fell apart when I opened the box. I could go on and on, but I just don't trust them. That's why I bought my own (six) HRs on eBay and CL from MDU clients. One owner and they were all well kept.

Rich


----------



## HarleyD (Aug 31, 2006)

Rich said:


> I haven't seen any evidence of refurbishing being done and I've had an awful lot of replacements. Some came DOA. How can that happen? Some came that wouldn't recognize any remote. How can that happen? Some came that fell apart when I opened the box. I could go on and on, but I just don't trust them. That's why I bought my own (six) HRs on eBay and CL from MDU clients. One owner and they were all well kept.
> 
> Rich


Well that's a cogent argument for owning them.

I quite simply am too cheap to pay what an owned box costs. I'll just make DirecTV stand behind their leased units all day long and complain until I'm blue in the face if necessary. Thankfully this is the first issue I've had with a leased unit showing up bad. My first HR20-700 had issues a few years ago that indicated that the HDD might be about to fail. They replaced it with another HR20-700 (I paid the shipping since I don't have the Protection Plan) and have been problem free since...until this incident.

The replacement for this bad unit arrived yesterday (an HR21-200), less than 24 hours after I told them that this one was bad. It's now hooked up and running without issue.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

HarleyD said:


> Well that's a cogent argument for owning them.
> 
> *I quite simply am too cheap to pay what an owned box costs.* I'll just make DirecTV stand behind their leased units all day long and complain until I'm blue in the face if necessary. Thankfully this is the first issue I've had with a leased unit showing up bad. My first HR20-700 had issues a few years ago that indicated that the HDD might be about to fail. They replaced it with another HR20-700 (I paid the shipping since I don't have the Protection Plan) and have been problem free since...until this incident.
> 
> The replacement for this bad unit arrived yesterday (an HR21-200), less than 24 hours after I told them that this one was bad. It's now hooked up and running without issue.


Me too, but the frustration of receiving one replacement after another that didn't work overcame my "tightness". I simply couldn't take it anymore. Proved to be a good thing, the 20-700s I bought were relatively low priced and a good piece of the money I spent was on 2TB drives to put in them. Some of them lasted a couple years and morphed into owned 24-500s. I still have three of the owned 20-700s that are still reliable, but I don't hold out much hope for them staying that way. They're just old in DVR years.

Rich


----------

