# Meanest company in America



## Satelliteracer (Dec 6, 2006)

Interesting article in many respects....posted on the Dish forum as well.

http://mobile.businessweek.com/arti...e-meanest-company-in-america?campaign_id=yhoo

One of the things that jumped out at me in regards to programming disputes: "A blackout is the height of hostility between a carrier and a network. According to the American Television Alliance, a coalition of consumer groups and cable companies, no carrier is more willing to do battle than Dish, which is responsible for 22 of the 42 blackouts recorded since March 2010. DirecTV, with 5 million more subscribers, has been involved in six."


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

Wow, not surprised!:lol:


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## xmguy (Mar 27, 2008)

Long read. Wouldn't work for Dish even if they paid me! DirecTV is another option. lol


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## JosephB (Nov 14, 2005)

And the thing is, it doesn't even result in lower prices. Charlie Ergen must be making out like a bandit. I used to be a Dish customer, and the retransmission disputes were annoying, but I would have been completely OK with it if they had resulted in lower fees, but Dish's pricing is just as comparable to DirecTV and Cable and they have increases just as often.


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## 456521 (Jul 6, 2007)

It would be funny to see Ergen on Undercover Boss.


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## wrj (Nov 23, 2006)

plain and simple...Ergen is a tyrannical a-hole. He may have built Dish but many others have built companies with tough but humane treatment of employees.


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## PrinceLH (Feb 18, 2003)

Idiot! Plain and simple!!


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## JoeTheDragon (Jul 21, 2008)

Things like that are why more unions are needed.


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## Jacob Braun (Oct 6, 2011)

"wrj" said:


> plain and simple...Ergen is a tyrannical a-hole. He may have built Dish but many others have built companies with tough but humane treatment of employees.


Just reading this article is practically giving me a panic attack.
It truly is astounding how much better DirecTV treats its employees.


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## wrj (Nov 23, 2006)

JBv said:


> Just reading this article is practically giving me a panic attack.
> It truly is astounding how much better DirecTV treats its employees.


I actually ran into a guy like this in my career. He wasn't the CEO but a high level VP. My judgement is he actually cost the company productivity. Sure people put in the hours but they didn't go the "extra mile" for this clown. People wanted him to fail which he eventually did.


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## jeffcarp (Oct 21, 2002)

Does anyone read anything objectively anymore? I mean, really, look at this article's opening paragraph. He cites Glassdoor and admits that it is "hardly the most scientific of methods." But does that stop him from writing an article based on the information there.

Then if you take a look at the author's Twitter feed tonight it is full of celebrations about his "first cover." You think these people don't write this stuff for it's shock value - to get noticed? Please.

I have DirecTV. I've never worked for Dish and not an ounce of my well being depends on Dish. I just get tired of these guys who have the "power of the pen" who think they are being investigative and provocative but in reality are just being sloppy, lazy, poor excuses for journalists.


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## usnret (Jan 16, 2009)

Didn't Dish have to pay Tivo a ton of money??


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

pdxBeav said:


> It would be funny to see Ergen on Undercover Boss.


A very reliable source has told me that Ergen was, in fact approached to do just this, but his reaction when asked was nothing short of a "Get the f--- out of my face" response.


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## mnassour (Apr 23, 2002)

An absolutely GREAT read, should be required for anyone wanting to understand what's behind the competition.


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## TDK1044 (Apr 8, 2010)

I find the article to be sad reading. Charlie's obviously a very smart, driven man who lost all sense of decency and respect somewhere along the line.


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## n3vino (Oct 2, 2011)

JoeTheDragon said:


> Things like that are why more unions are needed.


 If they had a union, their service would be terrible and our premiums would be even higher. Haven't you ever heard of garbage pileups, people getting stuck at airports, or businesses not receving their shipments due to strikes? A smart company or corporation usually stays ahead of the union.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

n3vino said:


> If they had a union, their service would be terrible and our premiums would be even higher. Haven't you ever heard of garbage pileups, people getting stuck at airports, or businesses not receving their shipments due to strikes? A smart company or corporation usually stays ahead of the union.


Totally agree. unions are a joke, its just a bunch of slow over paid guys who drain our economy of growth and money.

You all can get pissed off, but I don't care!


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## hallrk (Apr 15, 2010)

I subscribed to DISH for 9 years and never liked Ergen. When I would watch his call in shows he came off as not a very genuine person who there for show. His constant disputes with networks was a constant annoyance. When they finally settled the consumer never saw any benefit. Just the inconvienance of not having that network for a few days or weeks in some cases. I'm glad I left them for a lot of reasons. This article just reaffirmed to me that DISH is just a terrible organization and I hope they never merge with DirecTV.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

People bad mouthing Charlie Ergen and DISH. I'm shocked! :eek2:......:sure:


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

In fairness, to me the article seems like the author came in with an agenda, and found what he was looking for. Not to say any of it is untrue, but it does seem biased.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

It's what passes for 'research' in today's journalism. Make your conclusion, then go out and look for supporting info all the while ignoring the info that doesn't support that conclusion.

Every radio/tv yakker on both sides of the political aisle has been doing it this way for years.


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## xmguy (Mar 27, 2008)

pdxBeav said:


> It would be funny to see Ergen on Undercover Boss.


When I was reading I thought the very same. Mike White did it.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Stuart Sweet said:


> In fairness, to me the article seems like the author came in with an agenda, and found what he was looking for. Not to say any of it is untrue, but it does seem biased.


Indeed. Somewhere it transitioned from "worst company to work for" to a "bash dish" piece.

Peace,
Tom


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Stuart Sweet said:


> In fairness, to me the article seems like the author came in with an agenda, and found what he was looking for. Not to say any of it is untrue, but it does seem biased.


Which is why some of us have avoided posting on this topic altogether.


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## xmguy (Mar 27, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Which is why some of us have avoided posting on this topic altogether.


It may be slanted toward Dish being a bad company or Ergen being a bad person as a CEO. But how many people don't like Ergen or Dish. So it can't all be slanted toward bad or good. And No I don't work for Dish OR DirecTV.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

May be a bash piece, but if even half of it is factual, it is pretty horrible.

The direct quotes from people who worked closely with Charlie are pretty damning.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

The article sounded accurate to me. A perfect example of why I won't do business with Dish or have any affiliation with them.


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## mitchflorida (May 18, 2009)

Shouldn't this be on the Dish discussion board? Threads are removed here all the time if they don't pertain to DirecTV. Why is this different?


By the way, the only reason DirecTVs rates are as low as they are is because of competition from Dish. So I like how he keeps costs down.


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## Sanderson K. (Jan 4, 2013)

Dish is a horrible company and I'm glad I stopped doing business with them years ago.


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## Sanderson K. (Jan 4, 2013)

mitchflorida said:


> Shouldn't this be on the Dish discussion board? Threads are removed here all the time if they don't pertain to DirecTV. Why is this different?
> 
> By the way, the only reason DirecTVs rates are as low as they are is because of competition from Dish. So I like how he keeps costs down.


Dish is only one variable in the equation. You are giving Dish way to much credit.


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## JoeTheDragon (Jul 21, 2008)

Sanderson K. said:


> Dish is only one variable in the equation. You are giving Dish way to much credit.


don't forget about cable as well.


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

"Stuart Sweet" said:


> In fairness, to me the article seems like the author came in with an agenda, and found what he was looking for. Not to say any of it is untrue, but it does seem biased.


The author had an agenda and then a Directv employee came here to post it, shocker.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

"raott" said:


> The author had an agenda and then a Directv employee came here to post it, shocker.


Right...point out one thing about that article that is inaccurate. Charlie is scum.


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

"Hoosier205" said:


> Right...point out one thing about that article that is inaccurate. Charlie is scum.


Speaking of agenda.....


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

"raott" said:


> Speaking of agenda.....


 I guess you couldn't think of anything.


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

I'd love to have a beer with one of Charlie's five kids.


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## wilbur_the_goose (Aug 16, 2006)

Scariest line of the article: "He’s also made it clear that he’d like to try again to merge with DirecTV "

Obviously, I'd drop D* the second Charlie took control.

Remember the early days of Home Shopping Network? A goofball would be behind a desk with a "Tootie" horn? It was like an old SCTV skit, and that's what I think of Charlie and his mean companies.


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## n3vino (Oct 2, 2011)

wilbur_the_goose said:


> Scariest line of the article: "He's also made it clear that he'd like to try again to merge with DirecTV "
> 
> QUOTE] Hope that never happens. They need to stay separate to maintain competition. Sure there is cable and there is UVerse. Cable is already too expensive, and I've only heard bad things about UVerse HD, although I do like the wireless concept. But I prefer good quality HD. Who knows. D* might come up with a wirless concept sometime.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

wilbur_the_goose said:


> Scariest line of the article: "He's also made it clear that he'd like to try again to merge with DirecTV "
> 
> Obviously, I'd drop D* the second Charlie took control.
> 
> Remember the early days of Home Shopping Network? A goofball would be behind a desk with a "Tootie" horn? It was like an old SCTV skit, and that's what I think of Charlie and his mean companies.


 What makes you think Charlie would take control?

Lets see 14 million and Dropping , 30 million and growing. I think we know who would be running the company.

Heres your cut charlie ,now scat!


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

You mean like when XM (the bigger and growing) company took over Sirius?


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

trh said:


> You mean like when XM (the bigger and growing) company took over Sirius?


You mean Both dying Satellite Radio companys. And still dying!:lol:

Yea ok bad example!
XM was far from Growing anything except Debt.

_*The merger's completion is a relief to shareholders who have expressed frustration with the prolonged approval process. XM and Sirius have struggled financially and have said that joining forces is the only way that they can survive. Music-enabled cellphones, iPods, music Web sites and traditional radio stations all provide increased competition. *_

Right from here.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...7/25/AR2008072503026.html?sid=ST2008072503697

Directv is doing more then fine on their own 2 feet.


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## brucegrr (Sep 14, 2006)

"raott" said:


> The author had an agenda and then a Directv employee came here to post it, shocker.


All writers have an "agenda" or have bias. Neutrality is a myth. This is why we must be discerning and learn to tell the difference between fact and fiction.

I suspect that Dish is not as bad as the article says it is but that is not saying much. A lot of corporations treat their employees like chattel. Rare is the company that respects its employees and treats them as humans first and employees second. In businesses where employees can easily and cheaply be replaced there is little incentive to treat people well.


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## wilbur_the_goose (Aug 16, 2006)

damondlt said:


> What makes you think Charlie would take control?
> 
> Lets see 14 million and Dropping , 30 million and growing. I think we know who would be running the company.
> 
> Heres your cut charlie ,now scat!


Ask XM subscribers that same question. "We" had a LOT more subs, but Sirius took control and the end product is nowhere near as good as the XM days.


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

I agree. I liked XM a lot more than I like Sirius XM.


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## acostapimps (Nov 6, 2011)

Not defending Dish but Dish Network is no different than any other company that are trying to reach specific goals and expect a lot from their employees, because there is competition out there and everybody from the trainee to the executives trying to thrive even if they try to push people around to get the message, but regardless they shouldn't treat some of their employees like that shameful


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

"acostapimps" said:


> Not defending Dish but Dish Network is no different than any other company that are trying to reach specific goals and expect a lot from their employees, because there is competition out there and everybody from the trainee to the executives trying to thrive even if they try to push people around to get the message, but regardless they shouldn't treat some of their employees like that shameful


They've accomplished far less that DirecTV while racking up far more collateral damage.


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## acostapimps (Nov 6, 2011)

"Hoosier205" said:


> They've accomplished far less that DirecTV while racking up far more collateral damage.


At least I prefer their software engineering department than Directv's especially with the Genie HR34/C31 issues but then again NO ONE's perfect


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

"acostapimps" said:


> At least I prefer their software engineering department than Directv's especially with the Genie HR34/C31 issues but then again NO ONE's perfect


I prefer DirecTV's folks since they come by their equipment and features the ethical way, rather than by theft or other corrupt means.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

I do think they still do a nightly reboot. That might help with some issues.


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## TXD16 (Oct 30, 2008)

"Meanest?" Is that like getting a boo-boo? 

C'mon, life is tough. I work in and out of the C-level, and have for most of my 20+ years of being in the workforce, and one of the things that one learns early on is that at that level, people like Charlie are pretty much the norm, rather than the exception. That is, they almost all tend to be somewhat arrogant, definitely quirky, and absolutely certain that their way is not only the right way, but the only way. They also tend to be very, very successful.

The biggest challenge with these types of personalities is to convince them that they can achieve an even greater level of success by simply slightly moderating their methods and, heaven forbid, their "vision." And trust me, it is, indeed, one huge challenge. 

With regard to the apparently "disgruntled" employees, all of whom seem to be doing quite well for themselves post-Dish, one of the few great things left about this country is that one is pretty much free to find oneself another job anytime one wishes to do so. However, my guess is that once they finish processing it all, they probably owe Charlie a major thank-you card.

The bottom line is that if I were starting a business, I'd want Charlie on my team, not on the other side.


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## wilbur_the_goose (Aug 16, 2006)

zkc - A company I used to work for had a divisional CIO like you describe. He was the only one that could make decisions, and people feared him.

He finally irked the wrong people and was laid off, and the productivity and profitability increased.

Folks like this can be GREAT for getting a company off the ground, but are often become tyrants in a middle-aged company.


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## DodgerKing (Apr 28, 2008)

wilbur_the_goose said:


> Scariest line of the article: "He's also made it clear that he'd like to try again to merge with DirecTV "
> 
> Obviously, I'd drop D* the second Charlie took control.
> 
> Remember the early days of Home Shopping Network? A goofball would be behind a desk with a "Tootie" horn? It was like an old SCTV skit, and that's what I think of Charlie and his mean companies.


As would I. I do not want Charlie anywhere near DirecTV. Sirius ruined XM and Dish will ruin DirecTV.


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## DodgerKing (Apr 28, 2008)

damondlt said:


> What makes you think Charlie would take control?
> 
> Lets see 14 million and Dropping , 30 million and growing. I think we know who would be running the company.
> 
> Heres your cut charlie ,now scat!


Not necessarily true. XM had more subs than Sirius, yet Sirius is the one that took control


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## n3vino (Oct 2, 2011)

wilbur_the_goose said:


> zkc - A company I used to work for had a divisional CIO like you describe. He was the only one that could make decisions, and people feared him.


I worked for one like that. His production was high and his superiors liked him because production was up. Some made jokes that he had made a deal with the devil and that's why he got away with things he did. He would get information on employees by asking others what people were saying, looking for negative things that were said about him.

He was basically a people pusher and if he didn't like someone, he would take that person down using unethical means. For example, if an employee, supervisor, or manager under him bucked him, he would not try to correct the situation. Instead, he would leave him/her out of meetings and other activities making the person feel totally left out and broken. He actually would take a good experienced inteligent individual, and break them spiritually and professionly making that person feel worthless and usless and setting them up to fail.

I saw him do that more than once. Unlike those that had never worked anywhere else, it was those that came from other places that would, in most cases, feel his wrath.

The warning was, "Don't piss XXXXX off."


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

damondlt said:


> Totally agree. unions are a joke, its just a bunch of slow over paid guys who drain our economy of growth and money.
> 
> You all can get pissed off, but I don't care!


That's exactly what happened to Union Carbide. We'd hire new mechanics and they'd be a ball of fire. Couldn't give them enough work. Six months in, they were as bad as the regular employees. Kinda like an extremely contagious disease. Ever wonder why new cars cost so much? Unions.

UCC is gone now, bought out by Dow Chemical. Swept all the dead wood right out the gate. I was a union member and a shop steward before getting promoted. Sad story, I wouldn't be sitting here today if it wasn't for UCC. But the culture changed so drastically and it wasn't the same as when I was hired. I couldn't wait to get out of that place.

Rich


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## alnielsen (Dec 31, 2006)

D* doesn't need to buy E*. E* will slowly wither away on it's own.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Some managers and companies don't consider employee morale important. There do need to be rules etc, but if morale is bad, the company suffers. Of course not all companies are all that negatively affected by a high churn rate.


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## acostapimps (Nov 6, 2011)

I'm sorry to say this but does anybody has ever work for software/code engineering before it seems that Directv does not have anyone qualified(that's what it seems to look like) because the HR34 has so much potential as a home media receiver as is the C31 do to software related issues, and knowing how they are it would take awhile before they release another update, and knowing the regular upfront cost for existing customers it should work as is suppose to.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

DodgerKing said:


> Not necessarily true. XM had more subs than Sirius, yet Sirius is the one that took control


 And they wre both Dying. Again your compairing Dish to Directv, Dish is staying afloat, Directv is still growing. Directv has way more connections, and way less lawsuits.

If you think the merger will be ran by charlie, your dreaming.:hurah:


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## domingos35 (Jan 12, 2006)

damondlt said:


> And they wre both Dying. Again your compairing Dish to Directv, Dish is staying afloat, Directv is still growing. Directv has way more connections, and way less lawsuits.
> 
> If you think the merger will be ran by charlie, your dreaming.:hurah:


staying afloat
maybe in your wet dreams
don't make me laugh


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

Depends on your definition of 'dying'. Both were increasing subscriptions, but both were losing money. Buying sports and personalities (e.g Howard Stern), were costing the companies. 

But I think the point several people have tried to make is that at the time of the merger, XM was the 'stronger' company, yet Sirius ended up in charge. 

From what I've read of Charlie Ergen, I don't think he would support a merger unless he ended up in control.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

trh said:


> From what I've read of Charlie Ergen, I don't think he would support a merger unless he ended up in control.


 Which is why there is no merger.
Directv is not stupid. 
You honestly think they would say here you go charlie. HA HA yea, twice the customers, my guess twice total value.


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## 456521 (Jul 6, 2007)

alnielsen said:


> D* doesn't need to buy E*. *E* will slowly wither away on it's own.*


Let's hope not. We should want multiple sat companies in order to foster competition and innovation.


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## acostapimps (Nov 6, 2011)

Not everyone is created equal and there are some media bias toward any major company Walmart,Apple,Microsoft,Netflix,Comcast,Time Warner,AT&T and also Directv all driven for competition and reluctant to pay high cost for content from networks with an exception to Directv which is why we pay more.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

domingos35 said:


> staying afloat
> maybe in your wet dreams
> don't make me laugh


Guess we'll just have to wait for the year end results, and see who went backwards again and who didn't.


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## domingos35 (Jan 12, 2006)

directv is run by a bunch of wuss ,they cave in to the demands of every network at renewal time


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

What a stupid and untruthful post that is.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

domingos35 said:


> directv is run by a bunch of wuss ,they cave in to the demands of every network at renewal time


 Maybe, but they aren't shelling out $700,000 million + on a fight they lost either.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

"domingos35" said:


> directv is run by a bunch of wuss ,they cave in to the demands of every network at renewal time


Dish happens to be the provider with a long history of bad deals. Sounds like you need to do your homework.


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## carlsbad_bolt_fan (May 18, 2004)

domingos35 said:


> directv is run by a bunch of wuss ,they cave in to the demands of every network at renewal time


Make a list of what Dish has and what DirecTV has. Which list is longer?

I'll save you the trouble: DirecTV wins.

You're welcome.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Including G4? 

I'm assuming AMC caved, not Dish...


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

"pdxBeav" said:


> Let's hope not. We should want multiple sat companies in order to foster competition and innovation.


Agreed. It's like the cell phone business. Some want RIM to go under, but we need more companies innovating.


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## rmmccann (Apr 16, 2012)

dpeters11 said:


> Agreed. It's like the cell phone business. Some want RIM to go under, but we need more companies innovating.


Problem is, RIM isn't innovating. They're playing catch-up after resting on their laurels.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

The difference between the sat companies and cell phone industry is that sat is part of the whole PayTV industry. And there are many options, in fact even more now with IPTV starting to really take off.

Even if Rim isn't innovating, they are breathing down the necks of thems who are. That is their role for now until they reorganize their mission. (And likely their company.)

Peace,
Tom


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

dpeters11 said:


> I'm assuming AMC caved, not Dish...


I will have to agree on this.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Hmmm....always thought the IRS had the firm #1 position on this title.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Hmmm....always thought the IRS had the firm #1 position on this title.


 They are just mean to the Tax payers, not their employees LOL!:lol:


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

rmmccann said:


> Problem is, RIM isn't innovating. They're playing catch-up after resting on their laurels.


No, problem is that RIM didn't recognize that it dominated a smaller market. The security-concerned business market. They wanted to be a consumer company when their strength was in business and security.

They overextended their reach because they were not satisfied with a solid market that they had won. They wanted to play with the "big boys" and it cost them.


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## Barry in Conyers (Jan 14, 2008)

damondlt said:


> You honestly think they would say here you go charlie.


Not a fan of Dish or Ergen, but I don't think there is *ANYTHING* that DirecTV senior management would not do if they were offered sufficient personal financial reward.


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## GregLee (Dec 28, 2005)

Sounds familiar. Someone else used "litigation as a profit center" and "went to war" in court against competitors, suppliers, whoever. That was Ross Perot.


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