# MPEG4 Upgrade Path?



## zephyr (Jun 25, 2005)

A speculative question for a sunny Sunday: Could the USB port on the 942 be used to integrate an external MPEG4 decoder? This could take the form of an additional tuner or some sort of black box.

Is this technically possible?
If so, is it in E*'s plans?

If this has been addressed elsewhere, please direct me. I did not find anything in an admittedly brief search. Thanks.


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

Uh uh. For security reasons they won't allow it I'm sure.

The boxes are going to have to get swapped out. I hear the HD subscribers will get theirs done first and then the rest of the subscribers within 1-2 years. All speculative on my part but I don't see any other way they can do it, with the HD channels needing the most bandwidth.....


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

It has been addressed several different ways in different threads in recent months.

Another strike against USB upgrading... The MPEG-4 hardware likely would not be able to run as fast that way. The limitation would be not only on the processor they could stick in a small upgrade box like that, which would only be drawing power through the USB port... but also the bandwidth & speed limit of the USB communications, and even USB 2.0 would not be as fast (and noticably so) as on-board direct-wired communications would be.

Nobody would want the results of such an upgrade... Since the box apparently wasn't made such that an external card could be plugged in and override/disable the onboard MPEG2... the only sane upgrade path is a replacement of the box.

All things considering, with manufacturing and integration and testing... it is probably cheaper for Dish to replace a box than to offer such an upgrade anyway.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

I am guessing the 962 replacement for the 942 will be nothing more than a mpeg4 version of the 942 . IN other words, it will have the mpeg4 chip and a mpeg 2 chip. This way Dish can make a few thousand 962 dvrs and then replace the existing 942 receivers for the first 1000 owners and take them and add the mpeg4 chip as well and change out the front right door in front of the power buttons with one with mpeg4 and 962 dishplayer written on it. Then they can send them back out as replacement 962 dvrs . Then they could effectively recycle them at less cost. It would take a few months but it would save old Cheap Charlie some money . 

Why else would they keep working on the 942 to improve it if they weren't going to keep using it? Now, I know they are also doing software updates on the 921 receiver as well , but these are far and few between . I just hope they don't try to charge us any upgrade lease fee or charge to get the mpeg4 versions of the 942.


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

> ... it will have the mpeg4 chip and a mpeg 2 chip.


No need - the MPEG-4 chips can do MPEG-2.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

SimpleSimon said:


> No need - the MPEG-4 chips can do MPEG-2.


 Well there you go . That will save one less step and save even more money for old Charlie.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Mike D-CO5 said:


> I am guessing the 962 replacement for the 942 will be nothing more than a mpeg4 version of the 942 . IN other words, it will have the mpeg4 chip and a mpeg 2 chip. This way Dish can make a few thousand 962 dvrs and then replace the existing 942 receivers for the first 1000 owners and take them and add the mpeg4 chip as well and change out the front right door in front of the power buttons with one with mpeg4 and 962 dishplayer written on it. Then they can send them back out as replacement 962 dvrs . Then they could effectively recycle them at less cost. It would take a few months but it would save old Cheap Charlie some money .


While potentially a good idea... probably not cost-effective. Very few major companies do any kind of component-level repairwork anymore. They used to do it when I was little, but by and large now companies swap out entire boards rather than trouble-shoot to component level... and for a similar reason, I doubt even if it was technically possible to do as you suggest, if it would be a cost-effective maneuver.

Consider that a new board could be manufactured, tested, and then let fly from the assembly line with only minimal spot-checking from that point unless a problem turns up downstream... BUT if you took in an old receiver, did component level part replacements, you would then have to test that unit (and every such unit) thoroughly because it would be a unique animal unto itself each time you did the repair.

Not only having to staff competent people at a cost much higher than just a guy who puts things and boxes to send via UPS... but an uncontrollable nightmare to fix problems in the field since each unit would be slightly different than any other.

Simply put... unless the unit was designed to be upgradable (software/firmware flashes or unpluggable components)... then it is probably cheaper for Dish to throw away old units and build brand new ones.



Mike D-CO5 said:


> Why else would they keep working on the 942 to improve it if they weren't going to keep using it? Now, I know they are also doing software updates on the 921 receiver as well , but these are far and few between . I just hope they don't try to charge us any upgrade lease fee or charge to get the mpeg4 versions of the 942.


Because they are a good company? Seriously... any good company will support existing hardware in the field even after they stop selling/manufacturing it at least until a cheap replacement can be had for the consumer. Some companies do stick it to you, admittedly, and leave you with a boat-anchor that they stop supporting... but a good company will devote some time to fixing problems even when they know their product has been obsoleted.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

All receivers that get sent back to Dish for a replacement get fixed and tested and then sent back out as a refurbished receiver. So they do recycle their receivers. I have received several refurbs over the years as replacements for my broken receivers. So it isn't that much of a stretch that they could recycle the 942 receivers as 962 receivers with the mpeg4 chip. 

From everything I can gather the 962 will be the same as the 942 except the mpeg4 chip. This is the reason why they are still doing software updates on the 942 and fixing bugs. They plan to keep using this platform for the 962 and the future mpeg4 dual tuner receivers. 

Echostar makes their own receivers , so I am sure they can do the repairs to make the old 942 receivers into 962s. I just hope they don't use Eldon as their team to recycle their old receivers. I know that it would be attractive to old Charlie to use them since he is not using them to write software anymore. I doubt they will reuse the 921 for anything.


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## RLMesq (Mar 9, 2003)

HDMe said:


> Because they are a good company? Seriously... any good company will support existing hardware in the field even after they stop selling/manufacturing it at least until a cheap replacement can be had for the consumer. Some companies do stick it to you, admittedly, and leave you with a boat-anchor that they stop supporting... but a good company will devote some time to fixing problems even when they know their product has been obsoleted.


You must not own a now-orphaned 721, which was the newest, coolest receiver just a couple of years ago. They haven't even released a software upgrade to use DishPro.


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

I've had 4 refurbs sent to me over the last 5 years. 3 out of 4 were as good as new. The only hinky one was a reurb dishplayer that was more flaky than my "new " one. Other than that they've all been fine.


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

They do NOT repair receivers at the refurb center. All they do is see if the green light comes on.

As for the 721, it supported DishPro from day 1. You must be thinking of the ONE missing thing, which is that it doesn't support the DPPTwin/DPP Separator combination.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Mike D-CO5 said:


> All receivers that get sent back to Dish for a replacement get fixed and tested and then sent back out as a refurbished receiver. So they do recycle their receivers. I have received several refurbs over the years as replacements for my broken receivers. So it isn't that much of a stretch that they could recycle the 942 receivers as 962 receivers with the mpeg4 chip.


Refurbing and retrofitting are two different procedures... In a refurb, all that is mandatory is for them to plug it in and make sure it comes on... they might clean it up a bit and flash the firmware... but not much to do beyond that.

In a retrofit/upgrade, they have to do much more testing. Also, there's a world of difference between exchanging an unpluggable part and desoldering something from a planar.

With cost-cutting being what it is, I'd be surprised if anything on the main board wasn't soldered on... in which case it would almost certainly cost more to replace an on-board component than swap out the whole unit.

Of course, that assumes it would even be possible... and chances are it isn't even technically possible that a one or two chip swap would be all that is different anyway.

I have nothing against refurbs... in fact, you can argue a refurb might be better than new because it has survived its "infancy" and burn-in periods if treated right might be more reliable than off-the-assembly line that hasn't been powered up yet.

But the economics just don't make it worthwhile anymore to upgrade old hardware.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

RLMesq said:


> You must not own a now-orphaned 721, which was the newest, coolest receiver just a couple of years ago. They haven't even released a software upgrade to use DishPro.


I have a 6000u and a 501. I see they still support some old receivers, but not all of them. Most companies have a cut-and-run point where they stop supporting old stuff, so I've learned to sort of accept it when I happen to get caught in the mix.


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## Bichon (Jun 5, 2003)

HDMe said:


> in fact, you can argue a refurb might be better than new because it has survived its "infancy" and burn-in periods if treated right might be more reliable than off-the-assembly line that hasn't been powered up yet.


Perhaps that's true for the electronics, but I'd argue that with a DVR, you have a hard drive, a mechanical device that with bearings that wear in normal use, and a fragile mechanism easily damaged by improper handling. I'd rather take my chances with a new one.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Bichon said:


> Perhaps that's true for the electronics, but I'd argue that with a DVR, you have a hard drive, a mechanical device that with bearings that wear in normal use, and a fragile mechanism easily damaged by improper handling. I'd rather take my chances with a new one.


I wasn't thinking about DVRs and the hard drive portion for my above post... I would hope, though, that part of a refurb would include replacing the hard drive with a new one unless the unit had been manufactured very recently and the hard drive was virtually new still.

I agree, as far as mechanicals go... the hard drive and also any cooling fans should be replaced as part of a refurb or I wouldn't feel comfortable in that case either.


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