# New Links from Weaknees.



## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

I haven't seen these linked here before. The first was only posted yesterday and the second is what I would view as a reasonable review of the R15. Just thought I'd post the links for those that want to be kept up to date:

weaKnees Stops Selling R15s

weaKnees R10-R15 Comparison


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## mbrey (Jan 2, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> I haven't seen these linked here before. The first was only posted yesterday and the second is what I would view as a reasonable review of the R15. Just thought I'd post the links for those that want to be kept up to date:
> 
> weaKnees Stops Selling R15s
> 
> weaKnees R10-R15 Comparison


Thanks for this...it's nice to see such an extensive side-by-side comparison of the two units. I'm kind of an info junkie - that must be why I like the R15. I like that it tries to give me so much information at the same time.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

OOOHHHHH ...

When I get a chance... I am going to have to sink my teeth into that comparison...


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

It's a VERY biased comparison done by a VERY Tivo loving person. That said, it's interesting.


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

ISWIZ said:


> It's a VERY biased comparison done by a VERY Tivo loving person. That said, it's interesting.


It would seem that Directv "locking down" the R15 and thus not allowing harddrive upgrades by third parties (like weaknees) might add to the biasness of the review.

That said, some of the points are valid (dual buffers, suggestions), some are subjective (the look of the guide, the interface) and some are silly (Caller ID: this feature arrives in a time when people have multiple phone lines at home (the R15 will only connect to one) and cell phones are taking the lead)

I'm sure some people may have multiple lines in their house but I would suspect many simply use multiple numbers on a single line with distinctive rings but I don't think that is a huge item of contention when considering DVRs


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

I felt the comparison kind of jumped back and forth between being fairly objective and being quite biased. Some of the points were valid, and others were ridiculous.

But then everyone sees things differently. We each have our own very unique paradigm's. It would be a boring world otherwise, though.

Carl


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## DesignDawg (Jan 8, 2006)

Wow. I'm dumbfounded by this statement:



> So pressing the Record button twice will set a Series Link for a show that is part of a series. What happens if you press twice on a movie or other one-time show? You cancel the recording. On an episodic show, you press three times to cancel (record, get a series link, cancel). Pretty confusing - especially given the minor feedback here. If you aren't sure if you've pressed twice and you hit Record again to be sure - well, you've just cancelled even this episode.


I don't even need to defend the R15 here. This statement is one of the most absurd bias-driven piles of BS I've ever heard. It reminds me very much of Apple/Mac marketing talking about how complicated PCs are. "Three mouse buttons? What if you want to select text? You left-click. But if you want to copy it? Left click? NO!! RIGHT Click. But what if you right-click it first? Nothing happens. And then you middle click, and some symbol appears, and whenever you move your mouse, your page scrolls up and down. Now, you're lost in your document, and you don't know where your text is! You try to click-drag your page with the left mouse button, but it's selecting the text. Oops. Should you have right-clicked? So you try, and now all the text you selected has disappeared!"

How can people sleep at night?

Ricky


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

DesignDawg said:


> Wow. I'm dumbfounded by this statement:
> 
> I don't even need to defend the R15 here. This statement is one of the most absurd bias-driven piles of BS I've ever heard. It reminds me very much of Apple/Mac marketing talking about how complicated PCs are. "Three mouse buttons? What if you want to select text? You left-click. But if you want to copy it? Left click? NO!! RIGHT Click. But what if you right-click it first? Nothing happens. And then you middle click, and some symbol appears, and whenever you move your mouse, your page scrolls up and down. Now, you're lost in your document, and you don't know where your text is! You try to click-drag your page with the left mouse button, but it's selecting the text. Oops. Should you have right-clicked? So you try, and now all the text you selected has disappeared!"
> 
> ...


I disagree (though some would surely say *I'm* biased), and I've made this point before. Strictly from a UI perspective, it's a really bad idea for an action and it's (destructive) opposite to be performed by the same operation.

Schedule a recording? hit record
Schedule a series link? hit record twice
Cancel a recording? hit record (once if it can't be SL, twice if it can, which you can't know beforehand)
Cancel a series link? hit record

Even "my beloved" TiVo does this: hit record to stop a recording in progress, since there's no stop button. But at least they make you confirm it. I know some people hate confirmations, and I agree on a computer (I routinely shift-delete files to avoid the confirmation). But I *welcome* confirmations for all loss-of-data operations on the TiVo for various reasons (uncertainty of IR remote signals, 2-year-old and 4-year-old messing with remote when the TV is off, etc.)


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

Is not the "visual" of "no R", "R" and "((R))" as you press the button a confirmation of an action?


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

Nope. That's indication. Confirmation is "are you sure?"


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## matty8199 (Dec 4, 2005)

walters said:


> Cancel a recording? hit record (once if it can't be SL, twice if it can, which you can't know beforehand)


I think the little "Series" note at the end of the guide data is a pretty good indicator that you can set up a series recording.


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

matty8199 said:


> I think the little "Series" note at the end of the guide data is a pretty good indicator that you can set up a series recording.


You must be new here


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

walters said:


> I disagree (though some would surely say *I'm* biased), and I've made this point before. Strictly from a UI perspective, it's a really bad idea for an action and it's (destructive) opposite to be performed by the same operation.
> 
> Schedule a recording? hit record
> Schedule a series link? hit record twice
> ...


Well I think the confirmations are annoying. I mean how likely is it for your 2 y.o. or 4 y.o. to be on a channel at the time that you have a series link setup and hit the little R button one or more times? I would guess not very likely. While I agree it is easy to hit it one too few or too many times when setting it up it's very easy to visually see what state the link is in. Not to mention it's very easy to to add it back again. I for one despise all the Prompts that I want to do something. I told you to cancel something just do it I told you to delete something just do it. Like a line from Space Balls - Why do we always have to prepare to do things, why can't we just do them? TiVo has always driven me nuts with the prompts to do something I just told it to do.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

walters said:


> Nope. That's indication. Confirmation is "are you sure?"


Could also be taken as a Visual Confirmation of the action performed. It's all in how you want to look at things when it comes to something as subjective as this.


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

walters said:


> Nope. That's indication. Confirmation is "are you sure?"


OK, like a stop light going from green to yellow to red. I never asked myself, "Are you sure" you should stop?

I agree some confirmations are good, this one, different from that other box, IMHO is a good change, once you learn how it works.

Putting children pressing buttons into the equation changes the variables though.

A lot of the menu item locations are a learning process. Not as much better or worse, just different.


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

Kanyon71 said:


> Could also be taken as a Visual Confirmation of the action performed. It's all in how you want to look at things when it comes to something as subjective as this.


I hate to get into a typical forum meta-argument on sematics, but there is nothing subjective about how I chose to use the word "confirmation" in that post above. Particularly when it was preceeded by "make you confirm it". The program guide icon you describe is in no way a confirmation [prompt]; it is an indication.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

How about a global setting of "Confirmations ON" or "Confirmations OFF". Let the user decide if they want them or not.

Personally, I don't care for confirmations. Many people find them useful. Let the individual user decide. Just like large, standard, or small print guide.

To me, the "perfect" consumer device would allow a number of these types of choices, such as those just mentioned.

Carl


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## tall1 (Aug 9, 2005)

ISWIZ said:


> OK, like a stop light going from green to yellow to red. I never asked myself, "Are you sure" you should stop?
> 
> I agree some confirmations are good, this one, different from that other box, IMHO is a good change, *once you learn how it works. *
> 
> ...


So until the "once you learn how it works" epiphany occurs, the end result is you miss valuable recordings? That is messed up IMO. It sounds like this decision was made by a technician who knows how it works and not by a user interface specialist.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

We fight the same battle here, in the work we do...

How far do you go with confirmation of actions performed?

If in our application we designed for our client, if every button bush required a confirmation: "Do you really want to do that."... Or an OKay dialog box "XYX has been done"..

The client user would be seriously ticked, and would reduce the effectiveness of those placess it is really necessary, as the user would simply start to hit enter or click the box without reading it.

I personally... think the R and the R))) are good indicators... I find the single push, double push... pretty good too ... as I can set a bunch of recordings up, VERY quickly.

But... each person has what they like and don't like... 
And that is where "reviews" and comparison cross over from objectivity and subjectivity.

"I" as a reviewer fall into that trap to... I try to stay away from it as much as possible, but some of it has to get in there... or it would just be two "tech" sheets.

To a "degree" the same thing happens on the "TiVo" products.
"I set it to record... it got the first, but not the next weeks.... Oh.. Select To Record.. .I have to pick Season Pass.. Not just Record"

There will ALWAYS be a learning curve.. Even with the best of documentation, the Best of training videos, ect... there will ALWAYS be someone out there that doesn't understand it...


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

walters said:


> I hate to get into a typical forum meta-argument on sematics, but there is nothing subjective about how I chose to use the word "confirmation" in that post above. Particularly when it was preceeded by "make you confirm it". The program guide icon you describe is in no way a confirmation [prompt]; it is an indication.


As I stated see it any way you like, yes it is an indicator that something has been done which is a visual confirmation of what you just did. I always hated all the pop-ups that TiVo did (still hate them) so it's merely a preference, as another poster stated maybe the best method is to allow you to turn them on or off. Then we are all happy  Well happy until we find something else to complain about like OH MAN I turned off the confirmations and now the R15 is recording Oprah all day every day and I don't have a Series Link for it.


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

"At WeaKnees, we are definitely TiVo OS partisans. While we continue to offer upgrades for UltimateTV, ReplayTV and Scientific Atlanta DVRs, we strongly feel that the TiVo platform is the best. So this review needs to be considered in that light."


Here is something from the article that maybe people missed.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

Bobman said:


> "At WeaKnees, we are definitely TiVo OS partisans. While we continue to offer upgrades for UltimateTV, ReplayTV and Scientific Atlanta DVRs, we strongly feel that the TiVo platform is the best. So this review needs to be considered in that light."
> 
> Here is something from the article that maybe people missed.


I tend to like reviews that aren't slanted based on your personal like for a platform. Which is why I like Earl's reviews. He tries to keep personal likes and dislikes out of it and give you a real feature comparison.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Kanyon71 said:


> I tend to like reviews that aren't slanted based on your personal like for a platform. Which is why I like Earl's reviews. He tries to keep personal likes and dislikes out of it and give you a real feature comparison.


Gosh.... 

Check your paypal account.....


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

Bobman said:


> "At WeaKnees, we are definitely TiVo OS partisans. While we continue to offer upgrades for UltimateTV, ReplayTV and Scientific Atlanta DVRs, we strongly feel that the TiVo platform is the best. So this review needs to be considered in that light."
> 
> Here is something from the article that maybe people missed.


The one I really missed was, "As we have been unable to hack the R15 we have decided to try, for commercial reasons, to disuade individuals from using it"

THE QUOTES ARE MINE not theirs.

If it were my business I'd do what I could to protect it too. They do a great job at what they do but reviews are not there forte.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

ISWIZ said:


> The one I really missed was, "As we have been unable to hack the R15 we have decided to try, for commercial reasons, to disuade individuals from using it"
> 
> THE QUOTES ARE MINE not theirs.
> 
> If it were my business I'd do what I could to protect it too. They do a great job at what they do but reviews are not there forte.


I'm sorry but saying something like that is in VERY bad taste. Just because you can't make an extra buck off of it as you can on something else you feel the need to put the other product down and try and make people not buy. (Yes I know not you ISWIZ) Thats just not cool and NOT something I would expect from them.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Gosh....
> 
> Check your paypal account.....


Hey I never mind talking nice about someone when it's deserved


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## DesignDawg (Jan 8, 2006)

Kanyon71 said:


> I'm sorry but saying something like that is in VERY bad taste. Just because you can't make an extra buck off of it as you can on something else you feel the need to put the other product down and try and make people not buy. (Yes I know not you ISWIZ) Thats just not cool and NOT something I would expect from them.


Actually, it WAS ISWIZ who said it, not them. --But he was saying that's basically what they are doing, which is pretty obvious. Just clarifying... He said it. Just making a point.

Ricky


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

DesignDawg said:


> Actually, it WAS ISWIZ who said it, not them. --But he was saying that's basically what they are doing, which is pretty obvious. Just clarifying... He said it. Just making a point.
> 
> Ricky


LOL ok sorry I was confused.


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## GunnySpook (Nov 17, 2005)

The marketplace has changed (with D* moving to a lease model and owning/controlling all new receivers) and Weaknees is swimming upstream.

They are on their way to a DRAMATICALLY reduced business and are trying to deny the inevitable. This is nothing more than a "death spasm".

They'll be gone in a year.

The Gunny


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

Sorry for the confusion Kanyon71. I was trying to be satirical and missed. 

I think they will be around a good while as there are lots of boxes out there that can continue to receive the service they provide so well, as long as DTV continues to support their use. 

The R15 (as of today) is not going to be one of them.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Not directly related to the R15... but more so for Weakness.

What are they going to do post 3/1/2006?
I would think they wouldn't be able to sell pre-modified units... Since "technically" post 3/1/2006 DirecTV owns the boxes....


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## Mavrick (Feb 1, 2006)

They also sell upgrades for standalone TIVO's so even though they may not be able to sell modded D* DVR's any longer I feel there will probably still be plenty of bussiness with the standalone units. And also on selling replacement hard drives for the many who have D*TIVO's so that they can keep them running for many years to come.


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Not directly related to the R15... but more so for Weakness.
> 
> What are they going to do post 3/1/2006?
> I would think they wouldn't be able to sell pre-modified units... Since "technically" post 3/1/2006 DirecTV owns the boxes....


Not true. I own a DSR6000 (idle), HDVR2, and R10, and that isn't going to change on 3/1. All that changes is that DirecTV will not be giving comissions for sales, only for leases. In effect, they're buying boxes that are given to customers for lease. Companies like Weaknees can still sell to customers instead of DirecTV. I guess they'll try to raise prices to make up for what DirecTV would have given them pre-3/1, but price and cost are not normally tied together in that way.


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

Mavrick said:


> They also sell upgrades for standalone TIVO's so even though they may not be able to sell modded D* DVR's any longer I feel there will probably still be plenty of bussiness with the standalone units. And also on selling replacement hard drives for the many who have D*TIVO's so that they can keep them running for many years to come.


Well, there are a few more things than R15 and DirecTV lease model going against them. More and more DVRs look to be officially supporting expansion in the form of external USB drives, so there will be less reason to crack the case for expansion. And the non-Series3 TiVo standalone's days are numbered due to the digital switchover. The ones in the field are fine, of course (so long as they can get an NTSC source from a cable box or satellite receiver), but they will soon not be able to sell new ones unless they have digital tuners inside. I wonder if we'll see a "Series 3 light" (digital OTA, but non-HDTV) to fill that gap.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

I agree that previously purchased items... still will have a large upgrade market.

I guess with the prices for upgraded units are pretty high anyway, their prices won't change much... 

Are they still offering the $20k for the first person to figure out how to upgrade an R15?


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

Mavrick said:


> They also sell upgrades for standalone TIVO's so even though they may not be able to sell modded D* DVR's any longer I feel there will probably still be plenty of bussiness with the standalone units. And also on selling replacement hard drives for the many who have D*TIVO's so that they can keep them running for many years to come.


Well thats also saying that the Series 3 TiVo won't stop upgrades. I am NOT saying they will since I have no knowledge at all one way or the other. Just stating with a completelty new hardware platform on the horizon there is no telling what could change.


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I agree that previously purchased items... still will have a large upgrade market.
> 
> I guess with the prices for upgraded units are pretty high anyway, their prices won't change much...
> 
> Are they still offering the $20k for the first person to figure out how to upgrade an R15?


You mean I need to sell my Lifetime SA Tivo soon?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

ISWIZ said:


> You mean I need to sell my Lifetime SA Tivo soon?


Actually... probably... not "soon" soon... but once the broadcasts go 100% digital... And as more and more Cable-Co's move to the digital "broadcasts" for their channels.

Your SA TiVo... will be able to see less and less.

But that is a thread for TCF


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Actually... probably... not "soon" soon... but once the broadcasts go 100% digital... And as more and more Cable-Co's move to the digital "broadcasts" for their channels.
> 
> Your SA TiVo... will be able to see less and less.
> 
> But that is a thread for TCF


Or the TiVo section of this site


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## tall1 (Aug 9, 2005)

ISWIZ said:


> Sorry for the confusion Kanyon71. I was trying to be satirical and missed.
> 
> I think they will be around a good while as there are lots of boxes out there that can continue to receive the service they provide so well, as long as DTV continues to support their use.
> 
> The R15 (as of today) is not going to be one of them.


But there will be zero to negative growth in new DTivo business now that DTivos are not being manufactured. IMO they need to find a product/service to replace the DTivo stuff quickly or they will go the way of the dodo bird.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

tall1 said:


> But there will be zero to negative growth in new DTivo business now that DTivos are not being manufactured. IMO they need to find a product/service to replace the DTivo stuff quickly or they will go the way of the dodo bird.


They have the Stand Alone TiVo units.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

tall1 said:


> But there will be zero to negative growth in new DTivo business now that DTivos are not being manufactured. IMO they need to find a product/service to replace the DTivo stuff quickly or they will go the way of the dodo bird.


What about the new units for Comcast? I'm sure they will have a market there.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

cabanaboy1977 said:


> What about the new units for Comcast? I'm sure they will have a market there.


Those are going to be rented Moto and SciAtlantic boxes so I seriously doubt there is ANY market there. The CableCo doesn't take very kindly to you opening their boxes at all.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

Kanyon71 said:


> Those are going to be rented Moto and SciAtlantic boxes so I seriously doubt there is ANY market there. The CableCo doesn't take very kindly to you opening their boxes at all.


And D* does?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

cabanaboy1977 said:


> What about the new units for Comcast? I'm sure they will have a market there.


That depends on how Comcast goes about sell/rent them... and what kind of lock down they put on it.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

cabanaboy1977 said:


> And D* does?


Right now you own the box there is no real threat of theft so I think much likeTiVo they turn a blind eye to it. CableCo's aren't really known for turning a blind eye though.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

Kanyon71 said:


> Right now you own the box there is no real threat of theft so I think much likeTiVo they turn a blind eye to it. CableCo's aren't really known for turning a blind eye though.


Ah, got you. It's weird thought, I know more people that have/are stealing cable then people that have done that with sat. I can count on one hand then number for people that I know that have done that with sat.


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## DesignDawg (Jan 8, 2006)

cabanaboy1977 said:


> Ah, got you. It's weird thought, I know more people that have/are stealing cable then people that have done that with sat. I can count on one hand then number for people that I know that have done that with sat.


And that's really why they're so gestapo about it. Cable has always been very easy to steal. VERY easy. With some of the technologies, cable practically jumped into your house like a fish jumping into your boat. Satellite was once possible--not necessarily easy--to steal, and even then, you needed a valid account that you were paying for. And now my understanding is it's next to impossible. There's lots of differences in the infrastructure, not the least of which is that every TV made can automatically display cable channels. To this day, if I want cable in my house, all I need to do is go out and unscrew a notch filter on the (unlocked) box outside, and suddenly free TV is flowing to all the rooms in my house.

So, cable has to be a lot more paranoid about it.

Ricky


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

I agree with what DesignDawg say's it's much easier to get cable then Sat (as he stated I have no clue if sat is even possible any longer) so they try and control it more. On a side note but you can call me jaded but with past dealings with Comcast if there is ANY way to screw up the boxes running the TiVo softwareComcast will find that way.


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## thumperr (Feb 10, 2006)

I have had 3 UTVs for 3 1/2 years. I just got an HR10-250. I have to say i'm not overly impressed with TIVO. A lot of the 'neat' TIVO features that the Weakness article talked about, I don't care for. Dual tuner buffers with no PIP is kind of a waste. The guide over the TV, i can't see what is going on. If i'm doing cleanup on my recordings having the channel on the recordings page is a nice feature. as for the TIVO remote, great idea to put the TV power button right above 1. I keep shutting off my tv when going to channel 501, DU-HUH....

The R15 sounds like it could be a really good device. I remember 2 software upgrades with the UTVs and they occured within a year, and they both added a lot of functionality and fixed bugs. We all can hope that the R15 has a similar time line.

The R15 sounds an awful lot like the UTV. I compared the screen shot of the guide of the r15 with my UTV and they are almost identical. Showing a show is scheduled to record in the guide is very helpful. I can't speak about the R10, but the guide on the Hr10-250 is really slow.

I hope D* allows for Hard Drive upgrades through USB. Being able to add record space is a basic desire for consumers of a lot of content or want to store some content. It is understandable that the stock D* DVR would have an average size HD. this allows D* to keep the cost down by using cheap bulk HDs. If D* used the biggest drives available the price would be really high for the device. and D* would not want to offer multiple HD sized machines because it would be an inventory pain in the a**.


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## DesignDawg (Jan 8, 2006)

thumperr said:


> I have had 3 UTVs for 3 1/2 years. I just got an HR10-250. I have to say i'm not overly impressed with TIVO.


Pretty common. DirecTiVo users are so smug and think it's the best system ever, but UltimateTV did it right. TiVo can't compare. I've had both long enough to know and get used to both systems, so none of the "habit" arguments apply. UltimateTV is just simply a superior service. We UTV users are a dying breed. The few, the proud....

As for the R15 being like it: Yes and no. Some things are very much like it, and overall, it seems like DirecTV directly COPIED some aspects of the UTV. That's a good thing. There are some major differences though. No PIP here, no 30-second skip (yet?), and...well...right now, the thing doesn't work all that great in general. 

Also, the menu system, I have to admit, is a little awkward on the R15. Context-sensitive menus are cool, and a good innovation, but it seems like, for a DVR, just having one big-ass (full screen) menu where you can do everything is the way to go. UTV and TiVo both did that right.

But once the major issues are worked out, it's going to be a MUCH better choice for ex-UTVers than TiVo ever was. I'm sad that I ever put my UTV away...$10 extra a month was just too much, especially when I decided to get a DVR for the bedroom. At the time, UTV boxes were going for $400 on EBay, and I could get a S2 DTiVo free. $5.00 a month PLUS $10 a month was just too much. 

If DirecTV follows through with the "copying" of UTV, they have a MAJOR winner on their hands.

Ricky


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

DesignDawg said:


> Pretty common. DirecTiVo users are so smug and think it's the best system ever, but UltimateTV did it right. TiVo can't compare. I've had both long enough to know and get used to both systems, so none of the "habit" arguments apply. UltimateTV is just simply a superior service. We UTV users are a dying breed. The few, the proud....
> 
> As for the R15 being like it: Yes and no. Some things are very much like it, and overall, it seems like DirecTV directly COPIED some aspects of the UTV. That's a good thing. There are some major differences though. No PIP here, no 30-second skip (yet?), and...well...right now, the thing doesn't work all that great in general.
> 
> ...


Will they still let you activate a UTV? I keep thinking I should pick one up if for nothing else then to see how it is for a while. I have heard very good things about it.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

If Ultimate TV had been cheaper to purchase at the start....

It is very likely that I would have had three or four of those... instead of the TiVo products...  It was just ahead of it's time..


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## viper414 (Feb 10, 2006)

Maybe I'm missing all of this. I have gone through 3 recievers in less than a week because of either hd, hardware, software, or combination there of, the total lack of D* to handle the problem (other than saying that I should take the unit back and get another one) and I've been a subscriber of D* for over 10 years. In my opinion, if they fail to fix the problems that I'm having, and it keeps occuring in every box that I get, they will lose my business forever. I've talked to a lot of people who agree, and I'm hearing that a lot of retailers are planning to stop selling the R15 due to the number of returns and complaints. I think it could be the death of D* if they don't correct the problems and I mean fast. Lest we forget, this is a country who has no problem in filing lawsuits, and D* could be faced with quiet a few with the R15 disaster.


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## viper414 (Feb 10, 2006)

DesignDawg said:


> Pretty common. DirecTiVo users are so smug and think it's the best system ever, but UltimateTV did it right. TiVo can't compare. I've had both long enough to know and get used to both systems, so none of the "habit" arguments apply. UltimateTV is just simply a superior service. We UTV users are a dying breed. The few, the proud....
> 
> As for the R15 being like it: Yes and no. Some things are very much like it, and overall, it seems like DirecTV directly COPIED some aspects of the UTV. That's a good thing. There are some major differences though. No PIP here, no 30-second skip (yet?), and...well...right now, the thing doesn't work all that great in general.
> 
> ...


Although I do own a (now non-functioning) DTivo, I was excited to check out the new DVR from D*. My excitement turned to total frustration when not 1, not 2, but all three units that I have had lockup in Video for no reason, with audio continuing, and the remote doesn't work, the front panel doesn't work, and D* Support's only suggestion, is that it must be a bad unit. Three times and you're out, in my book. This box can NEVER be a winner, unless it performs as advertised. Locking up every 20 - 30 minutes without ANY input from the user that could cause it, is a $100 paper weight.

Let's not forget, a great idea might be great, but if no one can use it, then it benefits no one.

Of the glowing praise I've seen on this board, I have to believe that the ones you have are not the ones that D* are selling by retail means. Why else would I continue to have the same problem with 3 different machines, from 3 different stores? I'm sorry, but I don't want to waste $75 per month paying D* for service that I can't even access, due to THEIR hardware.


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

Sorry to hear you've had so much trouble. Most on here have not and all have bought them through retail. We all have had our share of "dislikes" but as with any system, the user would be the best programmer as he alone knows what he likes best.
All my DVR's work decently and with little quirks I don't like but not the failures you have had. 
Best of luck to you and I hope you find the cause of your troubles.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

viper414 said:


> Although I do own a (now non-functioning) DTivo, I was excited to check out the new DVR from D*. My excitement turned to total frustration when not 1, not 2, but all three units that I have had lockup in Video for no reason, with audio continuing, and the remote doesn't work, the front panel doesn't work, and D* Support's only suggestion, is that it must be a bad unit. Three times and you're out, in my book. This box can NEVER be a winner, unless it performs as advertised. Locking up every 20 - 30 minutes without ANY input from the user that could cause it, is a $100 paper weight.
> 
> Let's not forget, a great idea might be great, but if no one can use it, then it benefits no one.
> 
> Of the glowing praise I've seen on this board, I have to believe that the ones you have are not the ones that D* are selling by retail means. Why else would I continue to have the same problem with 3 different machines, from 3 different stores? I'm sorry, but I don't want to waste $75 per month paying D* for service that I can't even access, due to THEIR hardware.


If you have had 3 bad from different places I would say you either have horrible luck or there is some other problem. How is the signal strength to the unit? Do you have a multi switch? Have you tried it on different feeds from the dish? Any other receivers in the house? Just trying to see whats going on because thats a lot of bad boxes and you don't seem to be getting any help from D*.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

Kanyon71 said:


> Will they still let you activate a UTV? I keep thinking I should pick one up if for nothing else then to see how it is for a while. I have heard very good things about it.


My understanding is that they will only activate UTV's for people that already have the service or who had the service. I had 2 UTV's and one of them was overheating and turning off, so I had the choice of getting one off ebay or trying my luck with the R15. Over all the R15 hasn't been too bad but my main one has locked up the last 3 days and I've had to hit the reset button (it's wierd that it starting locking up about the same time as the new update was found)


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

cabanaboy1977 said:


> My understanding is that they will only activate UTV's for people that already have the service or who had the service. I had 2 UTV's and one of them was overheating and turning off, so I had the choice of getting one off ebay or trying my luck with the R15. Over all the R15 hasn't been too bad but my main one has locked up the last 3 days and I've had to hit the reset button (it's wierd that it starting locking up about the same time as the new update was found)


Well that sucks, I was going to pick up a UTV off ebay so I could mess with it. I love toys.


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## dbronstein (Oct 21, 2002)

DesignDawg said:


> Pretty common. DirecTiVo users are so smug and think it's the best system ever, but UltimateTV did it right. TiVo can't compare. I've had both long enough to know and get used to both systems, so none of the "habit" arguments apply. UltimateTV is just simply a superior service. We UTV users are a dying breed. The few, the proud....


I never used UTV, but my first generation ReplayTV (a Showstopper 2000) had better software than my DTivo. I've also used a Dish 721 and an R15 and I haven't found the DTivo to be significantly better than either of them. They all have their pluses and minuses.

What kills me about the Tivo zealots is how they get so defensive whenever anyone dares to mention a flaw in Tivo, like no free space indicator, or the ridiculously slow guide. Instead of just admitting it's not perfect, they turn it around and say it's my fault because I'm not using it the correct way, whatever that is.

Dennis


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

dbronstein said:


> I never used UTV, but my first generation ReplayTV (a Showstopper 2000) had better software than my DTivo. I've also used a Dish 721 and an R15 and I haven't found the DTivo to be significantly better than either of them. They all have their pluses and minuses.
> 
> What kills me about the Tivo zealots is how they get so defensive whenever anyone dares to mention a flaw in Tivo, like no free space indicator, or the ridiculously slow guide. Instead of just admitting it's not perfect, they turn it around and say it's my fault because I'm not using it the correct way, whatever that is.
> 
> Dennis


I thnk you are supposed to pray to it every night and worship it, light a candle for it (not too near though). Seriously though it's a great box I have three of them but I also like my R15, now if they would only fix it so I could like it more.


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## Mavrick (Feb 1, 2006)

This said I would rather pray to and worship women any day rather than a TIVO for you can have alot more fun with a woman than you can any electronic device such as TIVO. :lol: 

I have 4 R15's and they have the potential to be better than TIVO if D* could ever get all the bugs worked out. As a result of this I have given my two D*TIVOS that I have had for about 2 years to my brother in law for I did not like them as well as the R15's.


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## thumperr (Feb 10, 2006)

Kanyon71 on the UTV forum someone recently mentioned they got UTV newly activated. They had to email customer support to get it done.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

thumperr said:


> Kanyon71 on the UTV forum someone recently mentioned they got UTV newly activated. They had to email customer support to get it done.


Did they every have the service before? My understanding was you had to have had the service at somepoint before or they won't activate it, but then again if you raise hell they might do it for you.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

cabanaboy1977 said:


> Did they every have the service before? My understanding was you had to have had the service at somepoint before or they won't activate it, but then again if you raise hell they might do it for you.


You would think they would be more then happy to take my $10 a month  I should write them an email and see if I could get one activated, if I can I will start seeing if I can find one to purchase, like I said I just like to mess around with stuff and everyone says the UTV is pretty cool.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

Kanyon71 said:


> everyone says the UTV is pretty cool.


It is. I miss mine  But I'm still hoping the R15 gets there.


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## DesignDawg (Jan 8, 2006)

Kanyon71 said:


> You would think they would be more then happy to take my $10 a month  I should write them an email and see if I could get one activated, if I can I will start seeing if I can find one to purchase, like I said I just like to mess around with stuff and everyone says the UTV is pretty cool.


I'll be glad to sell you mine. Otherwise, I'm just gonna cannibalize it for the HDD.

Ricky


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## cobra2225 (Feb 4, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> I haven't seen these linked here before. The first was only posted yesterday and the second is what I would view as a reasonable review of the R15. Just thought I'd post the links for those that want to be kept up to date:
> 
> weaKnees Stops Selling R15s
> 
> weaKnees R10-R15 Comparison


this is what it say's

WeaKnees Stops Selling R15 DIRECTV DVRs
For several reasons, WeaKnees will (at least for now) stop selling the DirecTV DVR model R15. We will continue to sell all other DirecTV hardware: the TiVo-based R10 (in all of its configurations), the HD TiVo HR10-250 (several configurations), the D10/D11, and the H20.

We have had many, many complaints about these boxes, and many returns. Our customer base is made up of people generally interested in and accustomed to TiVo DVRs, and this machine just falls short. In addition, DirecTV has increased the price to retailers on this unit (and all hardware, as of January 1) so it is simply no longer economically feasible to suppport it, considering the rate of returns. We just can't put our reputation behind the R15. Unless and until there are changes either in the features or economics or stability or all of these, we can't offer this unit


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## GunnySpook (Nov 17, 2005)

As I've said before, WeaKnees will be gone in 1 year.

2007 will not see a WeaKnees on the landscape.

Buyer beware.


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