# Any news on 721 Software Update???



## MAllen

Scott, Anyone,

Has anyone heard anything about the updated software for the 721??? L1.13 or whatever it will be called?? Inquiring minds want to know. :lol:


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## Scott Greczkowski

The said in the tech chat that it would probably be out at the end of August.

You guys will like this update, everything runs GREAT now! It is worth the wait!


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## Inaba

Have you actually confirmed or denied the addition of NBR? I don't recall seeing a definitive statement on it. Everything I recall was leaning against it... or is it just something you can't talk about?


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## Scott Greczkowski

No there is no name based recording in the upcoming software.

No surprise there.


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## Bill R

Scott Greczkowski said:


> You guys will like this update, everything runs GREAT now! It is worth the wait!


Scott, that is good to hear. I hope that means that I won't have to re-boot my 721 every couple of weeks to keep it running.

One thing that I still think is a serious flaw in the design of the 721 software is the inability of the second tuner buffering UNLESS the second tuner is active (on screen using PIP or recording). Also, the "time based" recording (not "name based") is a rather limiting factor on the 721. I don't know how many recordings I missed because the program was moved.


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## pjmrt

Scott,
What new features can we look forward to in the August update?


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## Jacob S

I know that you have told us some of the features that we are to expect on the 721 along with some enhancements and bug fixes but are there any features that we can look forward to in which have not been said that you could not tell us about yet?


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## Scott Greczkowski

Check out http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=12191 for a look at whats to come. 

Its not 100% up to date but gives you a good look at the new features coming.

There is supposed to be a new beta coming this week that has a new Dish Pointing screen which is changed because of the SuperDish, I will try to take a pic of that when I can. (I hear its cool looking and a lot faster then the normal check switch)


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## Mike D-CO5

Just think all that was supposed to happen back in Feb or March and now supposedly it will happen at the end of August. Here we are 6 months and counting waiting for the upgrade in soft ware. I hope it will get to us this year!


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## Jacob S

Do you think the update keeps getting delayed because of more and more features that they decided to add and decided to just add them all at once instead of a few at a time and beta testing while they keep on trying to find more features?


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## treiher

Was that end of August 2003, or end of August 2004?

Sorry, couldn't resist.


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## Scott Greczkowski

Actually they held back the realease of the software because they wanted to make sure the SuperDish upgrade would not break anything. 

It would have sucked to put out the release then find out the superdish code caused problems with the software.

Smart move by Dish in the grand scheme of things.


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## Chaos

Good move, except that SuperDish code should have been in the next version and they should have given us the features that we've been waiting for since December of last year.


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## Jacob S

But they would not have known if it would have interfered with the other features they ware wanting to release unless they test it first.


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## RocketNJ

One thing I wish the 721 had that my 501 does is the warning about switching channels when you are watching a buffered recording (not live). 

on the 501 it prompts you with a warning message before changing channels. On the 721 it switches channels and you lose buffered recording. Bad if you accidently hit the remote.

Another bug with L112 is if you hit the buttons on the remote too fast it is very easy to get the receiver confused. I've had the channel preview banner up on the bottom and selecting chan up and down actually changes channels and not the preview banner.

Hopefully they work on these shortcomings before worrying about new features.


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## EvanS

RocketNJ said:


> ...changing channels. On the 721 it switches channels and you lose buffered recording. Bad if you accidently hit the remote...


I have never had this happen with my 721. If I am recording 1 thing (buffered or not) it switches channels via tuner #2. But if both tuners are already in use then it DOES come up and ask if I want to stop and go to "live mode".

interesting....


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## RocketNJ

Not recorded, but buffered.

Pause a channel for 30 seconds. Then play. Then hit channel up or down. It immediately changes channels without any warning that it will go live.

On the 501 it says that it can carry out the request if it goes live. A good thing if you have a show delayed for an hour then hit the up or down channel button by accident.



EvanS said:


> I have never had this happen with my 721. If I am recording 1 thing (buffered or not) it switches channels via tuner #2. But if both tuners are already in use then it DOES come up and ask if I want to stop and go to "live mode".
> 
> interesting....


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## STXJim

*Will we get our screen saver back?
Scott you know:
PLEASE answer...YES or NO.*


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## TomCat

Jacob S said:


> Do you think the update keeps getting delayed because of more and more features that they decided to add and decided to just add them all at once instead of a few at a time and beta testing while they keep on trying to find more features?


I would guess that's part of it. I would also think that they are in way over their heads in the area of fixing the chronic problems that the 721 has had for many months, such as the tuner2 px problem, and are struggling to come up with the answers, which takes time...especially if the answers are not forthcoming.

I'm sure their hearts are in the right place, and they will try to fix it all, but the outcome will be that they will fix what they can and not fix what they can't, simple as that. If they could have figured out how to fix the tuner2 px problem last October, I'm sure that they would have. Well, they didn't, and they haven't.

In terms of predicting a fix, then, time is not on our side, although waiting a long, long time for a fix that works is a damned site better than what they used to do a couple years ago with the 501 which was shoot from the hip and send a new up rev every other week which broke as much as it fixed. So at least they are learning from their mistakes.

DISH's PVR software has a history of being flaky and unstable in every product they've sold us. In fact, a DISH PVR that wasn't plagued with such issues would be a new development, a unique state of affairs for them. That must be pretty humiliating in a universe where virtually every other PVR on the market runs like a top. While I love much of what DISH PVR's are about, and prefer them over much of what else is available, its still pretty obvious that they have a lot of ground to gain in the competence arena.

Unfortunately, there are only a couple of ways out. One is to get lucky and stumble onto the answers. Not very likely, but probably the path they are banking on. The other is to get introspective, admit they have a real problem regarding the abilities of their software developers, and hopefully remedy the problem by hiring away experts who actually know how to do this from the other PVR vendors. That, and cultivating an atmosphere of (real, not phony) training and sharing information among themselves could make a big difference.

It's difficult to be optimistic about that. Rumors I hear from folks who work for them is that the atmosphere there is quite the opposite of that, and that there are many levels of unnecessary micro-management and a general aura of close-mindedness and arrogance, which might be what led them into such a dark place to begin with.


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## treiher

*STXJim:*


> Will we get our screen saver back?


Actually, I am curious about that too! I really miss that screen saver.


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## Scott Greczkowski

STXJim said:


> *Will we get our screen saver back?
> Scott you know:
> PLEASE answer...YES or NO.*


YES, and also at night the unit will put up a special screen save and power off the hard drive. 

Its a nice feature!


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## Jacob S

Perhaps if you have a show delayed in buffer they should allow it to go to tuner 2 automatically when you are changing channels. They should also give you the option to not do this. The problem this may cause is if you have a tuner 2 pixellation issue then you will really notice it if they would do this enhancement and have to deal with it until you get your replacement.

Dish Network advertises on their boxes how their receivers are upgradable via satellite. Well they need the software updates to fix the bugs they should not have had in the beginning so when they make it sound good it has different intentions than one may think when purchasing the product.


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## Scott Greczkowski

TomCat said:


> I would guess that's part of it. I would also think that they are in way over their heads in the area of fixing the chronic problems that the 721 has had for many months, such as the tuner2 px problem, and are struggling to come up with the answers, which takes time...especially if the answers are not forthcoming.


Nothing could be further then the truth.

The software i have been running has been ROCK SOLID, the only time I have ever had to reboot in the past few months was when I got a new beta and then to install the software I needed to reboot. With the new software the 721 is rock solid!

The software was ready for release, however a wise decission was made to hold back the release so that the SuperDish and new check switch matrix could be added, the reason it was smart to hold the release now and add it was to make sure this new code did not break anything else.

Since the SuperDish should be available to the General public next month it is important that the 721 to support this technology at the launch of the SuperDish product.

I understand that once this software is released to the public a new beta will start that adds even a bunch more new features, as you seen the beta cycle can sometimes take a long time, imagine if you had to wait to then to get SuperDish support.

Again hang in there, this software is well worth the wait.


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## EvanS

RocketNJ said:


> Not recorded, but buffered....


understood - MY bad there Rocket.
The term "buffered recording" is what got me. And it seems ONLY me :lol:


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## pjmrt

Scott,
sorry, but this may be a dumb question - but what is Superdish and why is it something I would want to use my 721 with? I missed the tech chat. I seen it referenced several places in the posts on this site. But I really don't have a clear picture of what it is and why it is good. Thx


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## Big Bob

Scott Greczkowski said:


> Nothing could be further then the truth.
> 
> The software was ready for release, however a wise decission was made to hold back the release so that the SuperDish and new check switch matrix could be added, the reason it was smart to hold the release now and add it was to make sure this new code did not break anything else.


Sorry, doesn't sound like a wise decision to me. 
They are breaking some very basic software development rules.

Establish what you are going to do. 
Do it.
Test it. 
Release it. 
Repeat if necessary to add new features or fix bugs.

Never ever allow feature creep to happen. Once the code is frozen, it is frozen and no new features can be added.

If there is concern that future features will be problematic with what you are doing now, then either drop those features permanently or deal with those problems in the next release.

The logical conclusion to the path that Dish has taken is that no (or only one final) upgrades are ever released.


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## Scott Greczkowski

pjmrt said:


> Scott,
> sorry, but this may be a dumb question - but what is Superdish and why is it something I would want to use my 721 with?


Because if you have a SuperDish without this upgrade your 721 would not see any satellite signal therefore it needs this update in order to play nice with the SuperDish.


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## pjmrt

Scott Greczkowski said:


> Because if you have a SuperDish without this upgrade your 721 would not see any satellite signal therefore it needs this update in order to play nice with the SuperDish.


I think you missunderstood my question. I understand why I need the update IF I want/get Superdish. My question is "why should I care about Superdish in the first place?" I get three satellites right now - 110, 119, 61.5. Is superdish going to offer better picture quality, higher signal strength (less rain fade), cook breakfast for me, ... Like I said, I've heard it referred to a lot, and in a light that makes me think it is desireable. But I really haven't found out what it is and why I should consider getting it. Thanks


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## Scott Greczkowski

Oh sorry.

The SuperDish is new Technology which opens up two additional satellite to Dish Customers 105 degrees and 121 degrees.

On the 105 degree satellite Dish will be putting locals and HD channels, all new locals and HD channels will be on this satellite.

On the 121 degree satellite Dish will be putting on International Channels.


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## Big Bob

Scott Greczkowski said:


> Because if you have a SuperDish without this upgrade your 721 would not see any satellite signal therefore it needs this update in order to play nice with the SuperDish.


Doesn't make sense to me.

1st of all, there is no superdish available yet, so why not just release what is finished and update for the superdish when it is available?

There are only two paths that people will get a suerdish, upgrading their existing system or buying a completely new system.

If it is an upgrade, then they already have access to the satellites and can do the upgrade with the existing system. They would need to be informed that the upgrade would be necessary before removing their old dish. This will have to be done with all receivers. So no problems there.

If it is a new system, then the new software will need to be loaded on the hard drive before the unit is sold. So there is no problem with this path either.

What am I missing?


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## supp

If the 721 can't use a SuperDish without a software update and the SuperDish ships prior to the software being available for the 721 it seems inevitable that some customer would attempt to hook a SuperDish to a 721. 

That poor customer would be stuck with a non-working system since it would never be able to receive the SuperDish update. Hence the need to get the software out first prior to shipping the SuperDish.

Can anyone confirm that without a software update the 721 (501, 508, etc) will not work with the SuperDish at all? I can understand not being able to see the third satellite, but why wouldn't the existing 119 and 110 sats be visible?


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## Jacob S

I also wonder what they are going to do for those with the 1st generation receivers that will not work with the SuperDish, if what I heard was true? Give them the 111 when it comes out?


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## Bill D

I kind of agree that they should have just locked the code a while back and give us something. By adding stuff it could just lead to more problems. If superdish is going to be out in a month give us the upgrade now and then another with just superdish in a month. I know nothing about how other companies write software but this just seems weird to keep adding stuff.


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## Kagato

Okay, middle of the month. Do we have a solid date yet for uplink? I know previous releases we've had a little more diffinitive info.


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## treiher

If we get that upgrade by August 31st, I'll change my Avatar from KSU Wildcats to KU Jayhawks for a whole month! That should give you an idea how confident I am we will not get it by then.

For those of you not familiar with the intra-state rivalry in Kansas, that would be like . . .

TX Longhorn using TX A&M Aggie 
Michigan using Michigan State
Miami using Florida State

Never-the-less, not very worried here.


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## Scott Greczkowski

Better go find that Avatar 

You might need it SOON.


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## treiher

I guess its like betting against your own team. That way, if they lose you are happy because you get the money. If they win, you're happy because they won! This is about as close as I have ever come to that. We'll see!


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## Mike D-CO5

Scott Greczkowski said:


> Better go find that Avatar
> 
> You might need it SOON.


 Didn't the tech on Charlie Chat ,out of camera range, say that the software release for the 721 would be in October? Or was that when we would receive dish home? I didn't quite understand that one.


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## baloo75

Mike D-CO5 said:


> Didn't the tech on Charlie Chat ,out of camera range, say that the software release for the 721 would be in October? Or was that when we would receive dish home? I didn't quite understand that one.


As I remember it in the TechChat they said end of August for 721 update that Scott has been telling us about (Weather, bug fixes etc). In the Charlie Chat the peanut gallery said Oct for DishHome and Charlie came back and said that probably means the end of the year.


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## Mike D-CO5

Thanks, that makes more sense.


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## pjmrt

There is now 7 days left if August - any thought if the long promised update will happen this week? Better yet, any E* engineers know for sure?


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## jazzis

Come on scott post some of the new features. Not some outdated link from a few months ago. Also how about some screenshots or something.


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## John Corn

Honestly, if we see an August upgrade, I'll be surprised.


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## Mike D-CO5

Come on !! It is really over due by 6 months and going on 7 , it is way past time. Throw us a bone Dish!!


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## Bob Haller

I look at updates differently. Sure its nice to get ne features. But theres a bug likely going to appear Right now the bugs are minor irritants. New upgrade could bring a bad one. I am contentr as is.


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## lonnman

I really doubt they would release a SW upgrade labor day weekend. You would think that most of their Engineers would be on vacation or something. Although I want the upgrade, I don't want to have problems with my 721 over the weekend, and have no guide or have it not work altogether because of some glitch.

I personally try to release my SW on a Monday or Tuesday, but mostly Tuesday, because it seems I am a little dumber on Monday's.

Jeff


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## BobMurdoch

Actually at this point ALL I want from the update is the weather and the fixed info so I can actually know what show is recorded instead of the show that was on BEFORE the show I recorded (when I set it to record 4 minutes early for Stargate SG-1, ER, Friends, Will and Grace, and all those other shows that NEVER start or end when they are scheduled to.


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## Randy_B

I would be thrilled if the 721 would default to "resume" rather than "start-over" once you have started watching a recording and stop at some point.


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## Unthinkable

Randy_B said:


> I would be thrilled if the 721 would default to "resume" rather than "start-over" once you have started watching a recording and stop at some point.


Amen to this request. I'd also personally prefer the start 1 minute early and end 3 minute late timer creation default to 0 as more often then not, shows are pretty much on schedule aside from the occasional odd exceptions here and there. I'm not big on having to change this manually every time I setup a new timer. At the very least it would be more user friendly if it defaulted to your last choice by all means.


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## dbronstein

Unthinkable said:


> Amen to this request. I'd also personally prefer the start 1 minute early and end 3 minute late timer creation default to 0 as more often then not, shows are pretty much on schedule aside from the occasional odd exceptions here and there. I'm not big on having to change this manually every time I setup a new timer. At the very least it would be more user friendly if it defaulted to your last choice by all means.


I completely disagree with this one. I pad everything. Besides, it doesn't hurt anything to pad unless you end up with a triple conflict. But I'd be very happy just defaulting to your previous selection like you said.

Dennis


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## Bill D

The padding I usually leave as is, just because I don't want to change it, but there are times that it wil give you a conflict, and without the triple conflic screen it's usually a mission to find the other conflict. At this point I'm kind of like whatever they get done as far as features great. But we will obviously never see internet access any time in the near future, amd there are soooo many small suggestions that would make things soooo much easy to use. I doubt they would take long to make happen. Maybe after we get this upgrade we can start a post about all of those little annoyances, many of which everyone constantly talks about, defaulting pad times should be selectable in a setup menu 
we either need folders or atleast the scroll to remember the last things in the PVR menu, date or show (I always use date)
These are just two off the top of my head..


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## Unthinkable

dbronstein said:


> I completely disagree with this one. I pad everything. Besides, it doesn't hurt anything to pad unless you end up with a triple conflict. But I'd be very happy just defaulting to your previous selection like you said.
> 
> Dennis


99 percent of the shows I watch and record start and end just as the guide says they will without any need for additional padding. I can understand having it as an option for sports events with OT and the occasional programs on MTV/local networks, etc... but its generally speaking the rare exception rather then the norm that demands any kind of extra time worked in where I am. I don't claim to speak for everyone mind you and its not really a big deal in the grand scheme of things, but it is unecessary work built in to creating timers if you change it to zero most every single time with nary an issue. Seems to me the smart default would be zero here going by what the majority of the networks are doing on Dish currently.


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## dbronstein

Unthinkable said:


> I don't claim to speak for everyone mind you and its not really a big deal in the grand scheme of things, but it is unecessary work built in to creating timers if you change it to zero most every single time with nary an issue. Seems to me the smart default would be zero here going by what the majority of the networks are doing on Dish currently.


Why do you change it all the time? It doesn't hurt anything to leave the 1/3 there, unless it creates a conflict. So if it's so much work to change it every time, why not just leave it?

Dennis


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## Unthinkable

dbronstein said:


> Why do you change it all the time? It doesn't hurt anything to leave the 1/3 there, unless it creates a conflict. So if it's so much work to change it every time, why not just leave it?
> 
> Dennis


I have just one receiver hooked up right now and its the 721. With all the timers I have set to record shows on a daily basis it doesn't work out very well having extra minutes at the beginning and end. Too many potential conflicts in the end.


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## Filip1

Unthinkable, I don't understand the problem. My 721 automatically drops the 1/3 if there is a conflict with a timer I just set. I also find that my locals in particular need the extra minute at the beginning of the hour. Why not do a test set some timers then, set some that would conflict because of the overlap. If your 721 automatically drops the 1/3 like mine does, then your problem is taken care of.


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## dbronstein

Filip1 said:


> Unthinkable, I don't understand the problem. My 721 automatically drops the 1/3 if there is a conflict with a timer I just set. I also find that my locals in particular need the extra minute at the beginning of the hour. Why not do a test set some timers then, set some that would conflict because of the overlap. If your 721 automatically drops the 1/3 like mine does, then your problem is taken care of.


Really? I get conflicts occasionally because of the padding. If the shows are on the same channel, it drops it, but if they are on different channels I get the conflicts.

Dennis


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## Bob Haller

I get the conflicts too. If padding causes conflict it should automatically be dropped and noted.


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## Filip1

dbronstein, After reading your reply, i set 2 timers(on different channels) at 8pm. Them after checking to make sure they had the 1/3 padding, I then set a recording at 7:30pm on yet another channel. My 721 handled the conflicts seamlessly,dropping the appropriate padding. Again my 721 gets very heavy use and i find this happening over and over again. I have no idea why yours doesn't do the same.


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## Ronster

Lets face reality. If we do not get it today, it will be a long time till we do.

Scott must know something, but he is not coming out with it.

It is a shame, this is a high end E* receiver with the lowest amount of support.


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## jazzis

Ronster said:


> Lets face reality. If we do not get it today, it will be a long time till we do.
> 
> Scott must know something, but he is not coming out with it.
> 
> It is a shame, this is a high end E* receiver with the lowest amount of support.


yeah, i think Scott is hiding from us. i have not seen as many post from him as usual. I think he knows something too. Like we are being jerked around :nono: Come on give us a date. And not that by the end of August junk. Atleast give us which week to look for it. Like the first week in sept 2003. :lol:


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## Scott Greczkowski

Sorry I have heard nothing.

We have not received a beta in awhile eaither. 

I can report that the beta is REALLY stable. 

I was hoping for it to get released this week. 

Sorry I have nothing more to report.


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## Jacob S

Sounds promising. Have they ever beta tested any other software release in the past to this extent for this long? 

I have never had a timer conflict on the 721, have not recorded that many shows all at once.


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## P Smith

May be he is busy with L114/L115 beta testing  ?


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## pjmrt

Well its Sept 1 - no update yet, at least on my receiver. Any way we can talk someone into getting the "rock solid" beta version while we wait, and wait, ....


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## Tony Trent

and wait... and wait... and wait...


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## STXJim

...and wait....... :scratch: :sleeping:


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## EvanS

STXJim said:


> ...and wait....... :scratch: :sleeping:


OK YOU'S GUYS....just wait a minute!!!!

oh yeah, I forgot. That's what we've been doing  :nono:  :nono:


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## Guest

Scott Greczkowski said:


> Actually they held back the realease of the software because they wanted to make sure the SuperDish upgrade would not break anything.
> 
> It would have sucked to put out the release then find out the superdish code caused problems with the software.
> 
> Smart move by Dish in the grand scheme of things.


Excuses, excuses, excuses. I wish E* would just quit making so many freaking excuses and deliver something for once. Regardless of the reason, it's just another broken promise and another missed deadline.


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## Jacob S

By the time its supposed to roll out they end up beta testing another software version instead or something goes wrong if I am not mistaken.


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## jazzis

Scott Greczkowski said:


> Sorry I have heard nothing.
> 
> We have not received a beta in awhile eaither.
> 
> I can report that the beta is REALLY stable.
> 
> I was hoping for it to get released this week.
> 
> Sorry I have nothing more to report.


Im not trying to make trouble. However, does anyone ever wonder what is the purpose in Scott being able to beta test the software and not being able to share it with us. I mean all we can get out of him is "its really awesome, its stable or something about a weather app". Wasn't the point of him being able to beta test the software is to share what new features for us to look forward too and show us some screen shots. when ever it does finally arrive. Ok, I think we all pretty much understand the features in the beta may not be the same as in the final release. Never the less we atleast no what dish is working toward.


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## jcase

> . However, does anyone ever wonder what is the purpose in Scott being able to beta test the software and not being able to share it with us.


Not sure what you mean, but I share everything I can about the beta, and everything you see is as its going to be in the release. One thing I do not talk about is bugs in the beta software because hopefully when you get the software those bugs are gone (no need mentioning what your not going to see anyways)

With that said I am still hopefull for a release soon. And again I will state I have heard nothing lately from the 721 team.


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## jazzis

jcase said:


> Not sure what you mean, but I share everything I can about the beta, and everything you see is as its going to be in the release. One thing I do not talk about is bugs in the beta software because hopefully when you get the software those bugs are gone (no need mentioning what your not going to see anyways)
> 
> With that said I am still hopefull for a release soon. And again I will state I have heard nothing lately from the 721 team.


What im talking about is a few months back i remember you saying to be patient there were things in the next release that you never dreamed of doing with a pvr. What are those things? How about some more screen shots. ANd didnt you contradict yourself. You told us that the betas were rock solid. But now your saying the only thing you dont share is about the bugs in the beta. Hmmmm  . You know i gotta pick with you scott. Dont take it personal. Im just bored waiting on the new release. !pu****!


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## Guest

I don't blame you for being bored on waiting for releases. It has been a long time.

Yes the beta is rock solid, the stuipd bugs I had were cosmetic and did not effect the operation and have since been fixed.


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## BobMurdoch

Plus don't forget that most beta testers are required to sign confidentiality agreements (I was an XBox live tester for Microsoft last year), and just abour every new test release came with a warning against discussing the beta software with others before its official release....


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## jazzis

Scott Greczkowski 2 said:


> I don't blame you for being bored on waiting for releases. It has been a long time.
> 
> Yes the beta is rock solid, the stuipd bugs I had were cosmetic and did not effect the operation and have since been fixed.


 :shrug: So, are there more features and can we get a few screenshots of them? :icon_da:


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## Guest

Not really any new features other then the ones mentioned. And screen shots would look almost the same (well except the weather forecast would be different, its a lot warmer now)


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## treiher

Something tells me that by the time this release comes out, the weather screen shot will be accurate again!


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## P Smith

Scott - is a termometer feature works well in the beta ? BTW, what version are you testing, L1.14 or L1.15 ?


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## pjmrt

treiher said:


> Something tells me that by the time this release comes out, the weather screen shot will be accurate again!


actually it will work great, but the weather worldwide will be the same - another ice age :lol:


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## MAllen

Wow, when I started this thread I only wanted to know about the SW update. This has been a VERY active thread. I have had my 1st 721 for OVER A YEAR and have been promised MANY FEATURES "in the next month's software upgrade" by DISH........ OPEN TV, weather, features that WILL NEVER be in the 721, etc. etc. etc.. BUT, I liked the 721 as it is so much that I bought a 2nd one about 4 months ago, I love the features but I WOULD LIKE to see Echostar DELIVER ON THEIR PROMISES once and a while. I think a year is MORE than enough to deliver, and 7 months waiting on what was promised is MORE than enough. BTW, thanks Scott for letting us know what could be.............. NOW if E* would deliver. Yet another deadline has come and gone...... NOTHING, NADA, NYET, NO JOY. IF E* is listening why do they keep us in the DARK. When something new comes.... it just appears, no rhyme no reason no information... Have you guys ever heard of marketing or documentation.... LOL. Hey I AM A MAJOR DISH SUPPORTER and I have gotten about 15 or so folks to convert from cable to dish. I just see what COULD Be not what IS.


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## marshalk

So, back to the original question...when is the update going to be out?


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## DmitriA

And the answer stiil remains the same (since February of last year) - "soon"


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## marshalk

my fear is the answer remains the same...august


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## EvanS

marshalk said:


> my fear is the answer remains the same...august


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :eek2: :nono2:


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## treiher

From Dish Customer Service:



> Thank you for your email correspondence. The 501 was not released with all the features it currently has. New software was released and eventually added new features. Such is the case with the 721. The Interactive Weather feature is currently in the final stages of beta testing and should be released in the near future.


This is the response I got when I sent them an email expressing my dissatisfaction with the fact that the 721 does not have all the features the 501/508 has and the ongong problems with software bugs.

So from this, can I conclude that like the 721, all new receivers will not have these features initially? I think what is most annoying about this is the idea that this is a normal way to release a product. This is why I am frustrated and so many others are as well. They don't even recognize what is wrong here.


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## Peluso

This isn't a bad answer, assuming that the software that was released when the unit shipped was absolutely bulletproof with the main features and functions.


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## DmitriA

Man, I'm starting to wish that Dish never had the option of updating firmware via satellite. This way they would be either forced to quickly learn how to build and ship already reliable boxes with all the features the consumers demand or lose all customers to DirectTV and cable.


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## lonnman

I'd be happy if they got rid of just the long quasi-audio drop with stuttering video. I think that I experienced the longest audio pause last night. It lasted about 10 seconds. I had to go back 20 seconds just to hear what I missed. I have about 20 hours left on my HD, and its been awhile (almost 2 weeks) since my last reboot. I also brought up my caller id stuff, and it took about 30 to 45 seconds to bring up the screen. I have been ready for this SW since March, and am starting to think that it doesn't exist. Maybe I'll put this SW on my Santa list.

Jeff


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## dbronstein

I just got an e-mail back from Dish about it. They said it's "about a month away" and they don't have a firm date.

Dennis


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## lonnman

Isn't "about a month away" code for they don't have a clue when it going to be out, but they are aware of it?


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## pjmrt

Could it be that Dish is trying to do things a bit too lean? I have heard from someone in Dish that the advanced tech support (the ones who actually have some clue what's going on and how to fix things - you have to be persistent with your problem to get past the regular CSR who tells you to power off, pull card, ....) (sorry got lost there) anyway that advanced tech support was being scaled back, that they were trying to do more with less people (and more to the point, people with the most technical skill). Perhaps the ongoing saga of the MIA software release for the 721 is suffering for Echostar's lean approach. I don't think I'd be very optimistic for a quality software build for the 921 if it really is released next month!


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## lonnman

pjmrt,

Maybe some/most of the programmers were all contractors and they let them go to early. I've seen it before, or maybe they moved them to other projects, like the 921, then decided to add the Super Dish code and didn't have the expertise? Maybe Scott knows?

I think they put them on the MS Longhorn project .

Jeff


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## AppliedAggression

I don't think the initial software is made by Dish. How else would you explain Dish and Bell Express Vu having basically the same software. I think what Dish does is, basicly hack the receiver and try to add things later on.


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## Peluso

pjmrt said:


> Could it be that Dish is trying to do things a bit too lean?


I have recently learned a bit more about Dish's operation. They are definately a bit too lean. I am partial to the theory that it's an atempt to sell the company or to raise the stock value for some major purchases.

I think it's bad for long term business. It's one thing to keep things tight, but you do that so you can spend money generously on the most important aspects of the business. In this case, i would say technology.

If they really want to save $$ on tech support you'll see them try to outsource support to India.


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## Unthinkable

lonnman said:


> pjmrt,
> 
> I think they put them on the MS Longhorn project .
> 
> Jeff


Ha!!! :lol:


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## pjmrt

I missed the Charlie Chat last night - did he by any chance say anything about the 721? Has anyone heard anything more about the long promised software update? I didn't see any mention of it in the chat summary on another thread.


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## BobMurdoch

No mention on the chat.

I guess we'll be pestering the Tech Chat boys about it next month.

By the time this release comes out I'll be swapping out the 721 for a 921 so I'm through caring at this point.


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## treiher

Trade in a 721 problem for a more expensive 921 problem? I refer back to my earlier post with the quote from Dish Customer Service regarding why the 721 was not released with all the features the 501 has and why it has so many bugs . . .



> Thank you for your email correspondence. The 501 was not released with all the features it currently has. New software was released and eventually added new features. Such is the case with the 721. The Interactive Weather feature is currently in the final stages of beta testing and should be released in the near future.


Simply replace 501 with 721 and 721 with 921 in the above quote and you have their response six months from now for the 921. I could be wrong, and I hope I am! It would be a very pleasant surprise to see a fully functional and bug free 921 when it is released, but I for one will wait and see what others say first after it is released. Unfortunately, haven't been wrong so far. My latest prediction was the 721 update would not be released by the end of August. I would like nothing more than for Dish to make me eat crow on one of these predictions!


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## BobMurdoch

This release is supposed to provide some "useful" features, but they are not necessarily "crucial" features.

The 721 provided a real upgrade by allowing me to record two channels at once and to record these shows to a hard drive with 7X the storage capacity of my old Dishplayer which used to be my primary receiver. The 721 keyboard would have been nice as would the interactive features such as weather and internet access but they were not the main reason for getting the 721. Although I am slightly disappointed that it looks like they will not be available by the time I upgrade to a 921, it is has not changed the fact that the two tuners (plus the PIP capabilities have given me real "utility" in economist-speak.

I expect the 921 to do the same as the even bigger hard drive, HD recording capability (as well as HD viewing capability that I didn't have), OTA HD channels from Philadelphia that I can pull in from 45 miles away by antenna (yet Congress says that Satellite can't sell me as y zip code is in the NYC DMA) AND guide data for those downloaded OTA channels will be real useful.

The feature that will be the source of NEXT years complaints will probably revolve around activating the firewire port (if it isn't hot by the time the 921 ships) so we can archive to D-VHS. I'm sure other annoyances will present themself, but the new capabilities we attain with this unit will dwarf the generational leap we made going from the Dishplayer/501 to the 721.


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## Randy_B

> . . .so we can archive to D-VHS


Bob, I would have guessed you would have the Sony or Panasonic DVD burner by now.


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## BobMurdoch

I will probably jump from my VCR to a DVD burner around Christmas when I expect the good units to hit the magic $299 level.

The D-VHS will be the only way to archive HD programming for now though, so I would like this an an option eventually (the units are still way too expensive)


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## treiher

BobMurdoch:



> This release is supposed to provide some "useful" features, but they are not necessarily "crucial" features.


I think you really hit the nail on the head with that one! The features we wait for are not crucial, and clearly, Dish views it that way as well. That is exactly the problem!

One could argue whether having the 721, a DVR unit, a programming guide, or satellite TV at all is crucial for viewing TV. It's all about getting something more . . . better quality picture, more options, more versatility, and yes . . . more features. Lets not forget, it was Dish that announced Interactive TV with a big splash on Charlie Chat and on their website. It was also Dish that promised the 721 upgrade by the end of August on Charlie Chat. Following through with promises like that to a customer base that expects more to begin with is crucial.

I remember I used to think this company is really with it! It was a huge breath of fresh air from the cable companies, and what really set Dish apart was all the features and capabilities you get with them. But it seems like ever since the merger fell through, it sucked the winds of innovation right out of their sails. They are starting to feel more and more (dare I say it) like a cable company. That is why I hesitate to pour any more commitment into this service right now, and the 921 is a huge commitment with that price tag!

And the thing is, its not too late! They can still get that upgrade out and it can work well. They can release the 921 bug free and with the features we would expect. They can surge ahead of DirectTV and stay way out in front of cable. And I will buy a 921 and that fancy new Plasma TV to go with it. Maybe I expect too much, but lets not forget who's setting the expectations to begin with! Is it too much to expect them to do what they say they will do?

Sorry for the soapbox. Guess I'm not real busy today!


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## BobMurdoch

I'm one for setting rational expectations. Yes, the 921 will ship with a few bugs I'm sure. Hopefully, it will go as smoothly as the 721 which was fairly stable at its original release (compared with the other E* PVRs that preceded it).

But being able to watch and record ESPN-HD as well as HD Net and Discover HD will overwhelm any negatives in my book. (I'm still itching to see my kids (9 and 4 years old) reactions when I put on an HD program from the Discovery Channel that they love to watch.


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