# dvd recording from the 942



## cebbigh (Feb 27, 2005)

My dvd recorder only has svideo or composite inputs. One of the few good things about my 921 is that it has svideo out so my dvd recordings are really pretty good. If I switch to the 942 am I going to notice a significant drop in quality if all I can use is the composite?


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## dfergie (Feb 28, 2003)

probably... why switch now? wait on the next gen...(mpeg4) unless you have a Bad 921...


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## Bichon (Jun 5, 2003)

Depends on the quality of the Y/C separator in your DVD recorder. If it uses a high quality 3D comb filter, results can be nearly as good as S-video. A poorly designed (i.e., cheap) Y/C seperator can introduce dot crawl and other artifacts. Why not do an experiment with your 921, recording similar material with both composite and S-video, and then compare the results?


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## shugazer9 (May 23, 2005)

Speaking of recording to DVD. One of the reasons I wanted to get the 942 is that it supposedly will output anamorphic widescreen 480i via component. I have a Sony HX900 DVD recorder with component inputs. Can anyone verify that the 942 will in fact do this?


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## cebbigh (Feb 27, 2005)

dfergie
That's the BIG question. Sit tight with the buggy 921 or wait for the 962 and hope that those who own get treated as well as those who lease. 
Bichon
Good suggestion. I will try the a/b comparison with my lite-on 5005.
***Did a quick a/b comparison using a recording of CSI-Miami. Svideo was superior but the composite really did not look bad. The difference between the two wasn't that significant. Dot crawl was only present on a guide menu. I guess another thing to think about is if there are plans for plug ins for added memory on the 942. As well, prices are bound to come down on dvd recorders with component inputs. Decisions, decisions ....


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## cebbigh (Feb 27, 2005)

Went ahead with the 942 lease deal. Also found a good deal on a dvd recorder with component input. Will just connect the lite-on to my wife's 508 (she wants nothing to do with the 921). I am also wondering now about shugazer9's question regarding the 942 outputing anamorphic widescreen for the sd broadcasts. I'd like to know too.


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## cdehmer (Dec 14, 2004)

Just got a Magnavox MVR700 and was hoping to use it's componet in with my 942 but that recoder will not support progressive scan! So I guess my only choice is composite.

Except for that, with the recorder hooked via component to the 942 and the 942 to the TV via hdmi, the MVR700 does output to the TV via component.


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## Raymond Simonian (Nov 22, 2002)

shugazer9 said:


> Speaking of recording to DVD. One of the reasons I wanted to get the 942 is that it supposedly will output anamorphic widescreen 480i via component. I have a Sony HX900 DVD recorder with component inputs. Can anyone verify that the 942 will in fact do this?


I think you can only get anamorphic to DVD through composit or RF. Please see Mark's posts as related to this in the Thread "DVR 942-realistically, when?", post 20, 21, 22 and post 36 and 37. I have been doing it with the 921 and the "S" video but the 942 doesn't have it.

In any case if Mark is monitoring this he can give an answer.

Can anyone tell me more about the "962"?


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## TVBob (Dec 19, 2003)

shugazer9 said:


> Speaking of recording to DVD. One of the reasons I wanted to get the 942 is that it supposedly will output anamorphic widescreen 480i via component. I have a Sony HX900 DVD recorder with component inputs. Can anyone verify that the 942 will in fact do this?


The answer is definitely *YES*, but you have to put the 942 into 480i mode first, and you have to remember to tell the RDR-HX900 to record in 16:9 format if the source is widescreen. The HX900's "AUTO" mode does not work with the 942 because the 942 always outputs anamorphic (squished) on the Component Video output when in 480i mode. By telling the RDR-HX900 to record the content as 16:9, the result is as desired (widescreen DVD recordings). If the 942 were to output 480i as widescreen, then maybe the AUTO mode would work.

For 4:3 content, you have to press "Zoom" to unsquish the 480i component video output before starting your 4:3 recording.

Anyway, I've been archiving SD & HD content to DVD with the 942 and RDR-HX900 via component, and I'm getting very high quality recordings. If you use the 15 Mbps "HQ+" mode to make the initial recording to the HX900's hard disk, then make a second pass to burn an HQ DVD (1 hour maximum), the bit rate of these DVDs averages 9.8 Mbps or so, which is "Superbit" rates. No, it's not HD but it is definitely DVD quality.

One problem you may have is that the 942 only has _one_ component video output, so unless you have a DVI or HDMI TV, you'll need something like the the Video Storm CSM42 box to split the 942's component video output to both your TV and your DVD recorder at the same time. The CSM42 box solves this problem quite nicely.


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## cebbigh (Feb 27, 2005)

TVBob said:


> The answer is definitely *YES*.


Would this be true of other dvd recorders with component input as well? I have a Philips dvdr80 sitting in a box waiting for my 942 to arrive.


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## Raymond Simonian (Nov 22, 2002)

TVBob said:


> The answer is definitely *YES*, but you have to put the 942 into 480i mode first, and you have to remember to tell the RDR-HX900 to record in 16:9 format if the source is widescreen. The HX900's "AUTO" mode does not work with the 942 because the 942 always outputs anamorphic (squished) on the Component Video output when in 480i mode. By telling the RDR-HX900 to record the content as 16:9, the result is as desired (widescreen DVD recordings). If the 942 were to output 480i as widescreen, then maybe the AUTO mode would work.
> 
> For 4:3 content, you have to press "Zoom" to unsquish the 480i component video output before starting your 4:3 recording.
> 
> ...


This is a real good post. It almost makes me want to get both the Sony with the component input and the 942. I wasn't aware of DVD recorders with component input. I have the Toshiba RD-XS32 and the 921. But I am going to sit tight and wait for the next generation mpeg4 (962?) DVR as dfergie suggested. My anamorphic DVD's that I have made with the S video are excellent. Don't know how much better the component would make it.

Anyone know when the 962 will be available. Is it the mpeg4 DVR? Is the mpeg 4 receiver is going to be available the forth quarter of this year?


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## TVBob (Dec 19, 2003)

cebbigh said:


> Would this be true of other dvd recorders with component input as well? I have a Philips dvdr80 sitting in a box waiting for my 942 to arrive.


Yes, the DVDR80 should work great with the 942 via component video. From what I've read, _all_ DVD recorders with component video input require the input signal to be 480i, because that's how the signal is recorded on all DVDs. The Sony and Philips DVD recorders simply won't recognize 480p, 720p, 1080i or anything else but 480i, be it on Component, S-Video, or Composite.

As of now, the DVR-942 is the only Dish Network receiver that can output 480i on component video. I've made DVDs from S-Video, Composite, and Component inputs. The colors seem most accurate when using the component video inputs. When I have time, I'll try post some screen captures here to show the difference.


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## TVBob (Dec 19, 2003)

Here are some screen captures from a widescreen DVD made by a Sony RDR-HX900 DVD Recorder connected to a DVR-942, using the highest possible recording quality (HQ+ to the Sony's hard disk, then HQ to DVD). Half the pictures were recorded using the *composite* (yellow) video signal, and the other half using the *component* (red, green, blue) video signal. All video is 1080i down-converted to 480i by the DVR-942.

As you can see, the colors seem more accurate when using component video, especially the color red which is too bright in the composite video.

You can also see some "dot crawl" in the composite video at the left edge of yellow color bar, and odd colors in the convergence test pattern which are not visible in the component video screen capture of the same image.

These artifacts are all visible in the original bitmap screen captures; they were not introduced by JPEG compression. I had to compress everything to JPEG to keep the file sizes small enough for this web site. JPEG compression did cause the blue sky in the last two images to look somewhat "blockier" than in the original bitmap screen captures.


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## cebbigh (Feb 27, 2005)

TVBob said:


> Here are some screen captures from a widescreen DVD made by a Sony RDR-HX900 DVD Recorder connected to a DVR-942, using the highest possible recording quality (HQ+ to the Sony's hard disk, then HQ to DVD). Half the pictures were recorded using the *composite* (yellow) video signal, and the other half using the *component* (red, green, blue) video signal. All video is 1080i down-converted to 480i by the DVR-942.
> 
> As you can see, the colors seem more accurate when using component video, especially the color red which is too bright in the composite video.
> 
> ...


GREAT!! Does HDnet transmit those patterns on a regular basis (and if they do when)? I've been looking all over in programing and can't find patterns. I even called dish programing, they transfered me to an advanced tech who just said good question but had no idea.


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## TVBob (Dec 19, 2003)

cebbigh said:


> GREAT!! Does HDnet transmit those patterns on a regular basis (and if they do when)?


Every Tuesday morning at 5:00 a.m. PT, 8:00 a.m. ET, duration 10 mins. It doesn't show up in the guide, but when you record it, it does get the right title. Very strange.


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## Moridin (Mar 22, 2005)

http://www.hd.net/schedule_sevenday.html

Looks like the next one is June 7th at 8 AM EST.


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## cebbigh (Feb 27, 2005)

Great!! Thanks.


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## Raymond Simonian (Nov 22, 2002)

TV Bob

Thank you. Now I know the difference between composit and component. There doesn't seem to be enough difference in the land and sky scenes for me to justify putting out all the bucks for the 942 and a DVD recorder with component input. If I didn't have the 921 and the Toshiba RD-XS 32, I would most definitely go the rout you have. However if I cannot justify getting new equipment every time there was a slight change in technology. Besides the MPGE4 comming out there are some new DVD recorders that are going to integrate the internet. Some of the new satellite DVR's may also be doing this. I am going to try and wait. I can get very compulsive about electronics and I have to use a lot of will power sometimes not to buy the latest gadgets. But is sure do appreciate the time you took display the images.


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## gijohn (Jun 1, 2005)

First off .. I apologize for my ignorance, but I'm SO new to all this DVD, 480i, composite/component, etc etc .... I have a ton to learn.

Yesterday I was all set to replace my 508 with a 942 (2 month old Sony WEGA 50") and now I'm not sure if my Panasonic DMR-ES30VS will fit in. Currently I have an S video going from the 508 directly to the Sony, and composite a/v out to the Panasonic a/v in .. and then from the Panasonic a/v out to the TV composite in (I think the S video runs to the Video 1 and the composites from the Panasonic go to the Video 3 on the back of the Sony. It works - that's about all I know <grin>. Can anyone enlighten this old none techie guy if the 942 will hook up as seemlessly as the 508 does? I'm wanting to run Dish to both tuners on the 942 in order to have PIP (possible??)

And one more .. I keep reading "OTA" (huh?) Is that "Off The Antennae"? "Over The Air"?

Thanks for anyone's help. I really do appreciate it.


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## Bichon (Jun 5, 2003)

gijohn said:


> Currently I have an S video going from the 508 directly to the Sony, and composite a/v out to the Panasonic a/v in .. and then from the Panasonic a/v out to the TV composite in (I think the S video runs to the Video 1 and the composites from the Panasonic go to the Video 3 on the back of the Sony.


The 942 is a high definition receiver. You would want to hook it up using component or DVI connections, since S-video and composite don't support high definition. The 942 doesn't have an S-video output, but as I said, you ought to be hooking up the TV with a connection capable of high def.

Your connections to the DVD recorder and then on to the TV are composite and should work fine with the 942.



> And one more .. I keep reading "OTA" (huh?) Is that "Off The Antennae"? "Over The Air"?


Got it in two. Over the air.


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## TVBob (Dec 19, 2003)

gijohn said:


> Yesterday I was all set to replace my 508 with a 942 (2 month old Sony WEGA 50") and now I'm not sure if my Panasonic DMR-ES30VS will fit in. Currently I have an S video going from the 508 directly to the Sony, and composite a/v out to the Panasonic


It should fit in quite nicely assuming your Wega is "HDTV Ready". Does it have any component video connectors (green/red/blue round connectors labeled Y Pr Pb respectively) or a connector labeled DVI or HDMI? It probably does. Connect the green/red/blue connectors on the back of the 942 to your TV (could be Video5 or Video6). Connect the composite (yellow/red/white) connectors of the 942 to your DVD recorder, and everything will be about the same as it is today with your 508, only for high-def sources you'll really be able to see a great widescreen picture on that Wega.


> I'm wanting to run Dish to both tuners on the 942 in order to have PIP (possible??)


Not only possible, but _required_. If you have an older "legacy" switch like the SW64, you must run _two_ cables from the SW64 switch to your 942 or else it won't work at all. If you have a newer "DishPro 44" switch, you can use just one cable with a DishPro separator at the back of the 942 to split the one cable into two at the back of the unit. But both Sat1 and Sat2 must be connected.


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## gijohn (Jun 1, 2005)

TVBob said:


> It should fit in quite nicely assuming your Wega is "HDTV Ready"
> 
> 
> TVBob said:
> ...


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## TVBob (Dec 19, 2003)

gijohn said:


> Oh wow! I'm sorry .... ya lost me there. Any way I can find out before the installer comes out and then informs me "didn't know you need one of those - I'll have to get one and come back tomorrow" (or .. horrors .... MONDAY) yikes!


If you look at the "Check Switch" menu on your 508 (Menu, System Setup, Point Dish?), you should see "Switch Type" displayed. Maybe it says SW64, SW21, DP21, or something like that. Or maybe all you have to do is press the *System Info* button and the switch type will be displayed near the bottom.

If you have _two _receivers connected to your satellite dish through a "switch" (a silver box like a fancy coax splitter), you may not have a spare output available for the second line to your 942. The installer should be quite familiar with this situation, so I definitely recommend telling the installer what type of switch you have now, and how many receivers you have, before he comes out to set up your 942. Make it clear which receiver is being replaced, so there will be no over counting.

If you have the "DPxx" switch, perhaps all the installer will have to do is install a DishPro separator and two short cables at the back of the 942. Otherwise he (or she) will have to run a new line and/or install a new switch. That's all part of the job. But it may cost extra.


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## gijohn (Jun 1, 2005)

TVBob said:


> If you look at the "Check Switch" menu on your 508 (Menu, System Setup, Point Dish?), you should see "Switch Type" displayed.


Installed Switch says 500 Quad


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## TVBob (Dec 19, 2003)

gijohn said:


> Installed Switch says 500 Quad


That switch, which is located up at the dish itself and is not a separate box, will feed up to four DishPro tuners. Your 942 has two tuners. So, the installer should simply run one more cable from your Quad dish down to your 942. No other equipment will be required unless you have already have all four outputs in use. We're now off topic for this thread on DVD recording, but good luck with your new 942. I think you'll like it.


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## cebbigh (Feb 27, 2005)

Have had the 942 for a few days now (today is the first day I've had off from work since I got it) and still sorting things out. The more I use it the more I like it. Regarding this thread, the Philips with component input didn't work out (great deal if it worked but even with component the image quality was poor). Hooked back into my Lite On using the composite outs of the 2nd 942 tuner and output from the lite on to the tv using svideo. WOW, the viewing image is excellent for SD. Better quality than the 508 my wife uses uses straight to the monitor for SD. I always though when composite is involved it means you get lousy picture. Not so in this case. I am totally happy with this set up. I'd been thinking the 2nd tuner on the 942 would never get used. I am happy to say the quality is good enough to enjoy SD again.


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## TVBob (Dec 19, 2003)

cebbigh said:


> ... the Philips with component input didn't work out (great deal if it worked but even with component the image quality was poor).


What was wrong with the image? Bad colors, fuzzy picture, or was the image just too "squished"?

It should work fine _if_ the 942's component video output is set to *480i* (in the *HDTV Setup *menu), _and_ *component *video cables (with green, red, and blue connectors) are used for both input and output on your DVD recorder's matching connectors (labeled "Y Pr Pb" or maybe "Y Cr Cb," respectively).

If it was just "squished," force the Philips to 16x9 (widescreen) recording mode to restore the anamorphic (squished) image to a normal aspect ratio, or play with the 942's Zoom control (choose *Stretch*) if you want to make a 4x3 recording on your Philips.


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## cebbigh (Feb 27, 2005)

The problem wasn't with the component aspect of recording but with this particular model dvd recorder. Even just playing a regular movie rental the picture quality was poor. The Philips DVDR-80 has gotten a lot of very negative reviews. But I thought I'd try it anyway. The price was reduced from 430.00 down to 170.00 so I thought I might luck out. As it is, I'm only out the shipping and restocking fee. At some point I'll upgrade from the Lite On, but it's fine for now.


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## shugazer9 (May 23, 2005)

tvbob-
Some good info there. Unfortunately, I have to wait til Sept to rejoin Dish (I could buy the 942, but am leery about the MPEG4 switch). I just got a Sony 36XS955 and SD/ downconverted HD look great coming from Moto 6412>Component> RDR-900>S-Video. Gotta spring for another pair of Component cables. I can display HD by using the firewire out of the 6412 through a JVC 30K D-VHS. When you record to DVD at HQ, do you use two discs for a standard length movie?


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## TVBob (Dec 19, 2003)

shugazer9 said:


> When you record to DVD at HQ, do you use two discs for a standard length movie?


If it's two hours or less, I'll put it on one disc (burn in HQ, HSP, or SP modes). The Sony RDR-HX900 won't record 16x9 DVD-R discs at anything longer than SP mode, so if the movie is over 2 hours, I'll usually split it into two discs recorded in HQ or HSP modes.

Wouldn't it be cool if the RDR-HX900 could be enhanced to support the new dual layer DVD burners? Then we could fit a 2 hour movie onto one disc with very high quality.


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