# Still a beta tester after all these years



## Bogey62 (Dec 1, 2002)

I've been with Dish since 2002 and have had the following DVRs: 721, 622, 722, Hopper w/sling & Joey.

It seems like it's a never-ending beta test with these things.

Issues major/minor seem to hang around month after month or year after year -- they develop new features and bells & whistles while ignoring ongoing annoying issues. Fix one thing and introduce 2 more bugs, etc.

I currently have v315 of the software, but the issues I am listing here have been present on my current setup since I had it installed in May 2013.

Here we go (all Hopper issues unless otherwise noted):

* Can't set update time, always kicks in at 1 am and I have to answer NO, then it will kick in a half hour to an hour later, etc. (Joey)

* Search only holds 30 items, drops oldest searches off the list as limit is reached, can't erase single searches or entire list -- just the other day I had to soft reboot the Hopper and it erased the entire Search list for no apparent reason!

* Joey loses sync when ff/rew SD programming -- it will randomly jump to whatever spot in the recorded program that it wants to! Never happens with HD progframming during playback. If I use skip ahead/back then I can avoid the issue with SD programming on the Joey.

* Progress bar is not real time on Hopper or Joey. When I pause a show then the progress bar will jump to the correct position -- possile relationship to sync issue with Joey on SD recoredings?

* Daily schedule of timers defaults to "show all" which is very annoying because you can't just jump up to the dropdown options at the top of the screen without scrolling up to the top of the list of timers which includes 2-5 days worth of expired timers! Dish, just set the default to "scheduled" to avoid this.

* I can fairly regularly crash the menu system back to live TV by going into the Remore Manager, chaging a setting or two and then Saving or Exiting this screen. The entire screen except for the PIP will turn black for a few seconds and then the entire screen will go back to full-screen live TV.

* Folder count in the My Recordings section are ridiculously inaccurate. They seem to count DELETED shows too! I can have a folder that says there are 5 recordings in it, but when I enter the folder there is nothing in there because I had deleted them at an earlier time or there are 3 recordings still there, etc.

* PT Anytime can't handle deleting multiple instances of a show correctly, if I have Folders on.

If I have 2-3 recordings of any show and I select that show's title, it goes into a sub-dir list of the show's individual episode titles and I delete them one at a time -- after all are deleted the PT Anytime folder seems to be empty, but it really isn't. I have to go back to My Recordings and then select PT Anytime folder again to see the remaining recordings. This doesn't always happen, but more often than not it does. The only way to avoid this issue seems to be to disable Folders in PT Anytime.

* Allow collapsing of multiple episodes into a single icon (Folders) in all user-defined folders (just like PT Anytime can do)! If I have 10 episodes of a show I have to scroll past all 10 individual icons in order to see the next recording, etc. Just collapse them down into a single icon that shows me how many episodes are there and then let me expand that folder if I want to watch that particular show -- much less clutter involved in My Recordings that way. Just give me Folders like PT Anytime has!!! This isn't rocket science people.

* Needs a user-defined screen saver to kick in. I have a plasma TV and the screen saver is nowhere to be found. Let me set it for 2 min. etc. for the user-defined activation time.

* Try this exercise in frustration:

Go to the list of timers and then select Edit Action/Priority.

Scroll down off of the first screen of timers and select one on the second or third page of timers.

Now select the timer and try to move its priority Up. LOL, are you kidding me? The screen defaults back to the very top after every move! You have to scroll down and find the timer you are editing and see where it is in relation to where you want it to be.

I have to manually count how many times I want a timer to move up/down in the list and just press the corresponding button to move the timer that many times in order to avoid having to scroll every time to see where the timer is in the list.

Editing Priorities from the Edit Timer screen is equally a joke, you can only see the timer just above and below the timer you are editing.

How can Dish have this concept down on other receivers and then devolve into this mess on their flagship DVR?

* When I edit my list of favorite channels, after saving the changes the system decides to randomly delete one of my local channels. This happens almost every time and I'm not adding or deleting the locals at all. The Joey always drops channel 29 (local FOX) and the Hopper always drops channel 5 (local MY TV).

* Slider is not proportionate in the DVR listing of programs. The bar does not reach the bottom of the screen even though the shows are at the bottom and there are no more to display. Reminds me of Windows and how it used to have non-proportionate scroll bars.

Does Dish pay beta testers? If so, sign me up and I will give constructive and concise reports on a regular basis -- I use these DVRs (past and present) to their fullest, most of the time, and often find minor and major bugs. I can see how a casual user would never see or be bothered by the aforementioned items, but as a self-proclaimed power user, I see them and am annoyed.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

you did sign up when you sat TV service - now you're the beta tester forever ...
sorry, no hope there, the company did decide to treat customers as beta testers and more then happy to cut expenses for the necessary QA jobs


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## ally68 (May 10, 2005)

Bogey62 said:


> I've been with Dish since 2002 and have had the following DVRs: 721, 622, 722, Hopper w/sling & Joey.
> 
> It seems like it's a never-ending beta test with these things.
> 
> ...


Good god son people are dying from starvation every day and this is your beef. Maybe turn off the tv and enjoy just being alive.


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## djlong (Jul 8, 2002)

Ah, yes, the Catholic Nun response to anything negative - "There are children starving in the world so you have no right to complain". (Getting beaten up by kids in school because I was wearing braces on my legs also elicited this response from the nuns)

He's paying for a product that he views as flawed. He has every right to complain.


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## TheGrove (Jan 10, 2007)

Bogey62 said:


> I've been with Dish since 2002 and have had the following DVRs: 721, 622, 722, Hopper w/sling & Joey.
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


Yes the update time is annoying, hopefully they will address this eventually.

When viewing the timers just press the red button and it will jup to that menu. You can quickly access all of the menus this way. Whatever color the menu is clicking that color button will access that menu.

I've never seen the problem with the recording count. When I delete a recording the count updates like it should on the folder.

I think the issue you are seeing with the multiple episodes is that you can't have folders inside folders. Since you are inside a user defined folder it will just list the individual recordings and not more folders. It would be nice to nest folders but at this time that is not an option.


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## Bogey62 (Dec 1, 2002)

ally68 said:


> Good god son people are dying from starvation every day and this is your beef. Maybe turn off the tv and enjoy just being alive.


You saw fit to quote my entire message just to make that useless, idiotic comment, ally68?

I imagine you make such comments in every thread about every complaint. Find something better to do with your time.


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## Bogey62 (Dec 1, 2002)

TheGrove said:


> Yes the update time is annoying, hopefully they will address this eventually.
> 
> When viewing the timers just press the red button and it will jup to that menu. You can quickly access all of the menus this way. Whatever color the menu is clicking that color button will access that menu.
> 
> ...


I'm aware of the shortcuts via colored buttons, but that doesn't resolve the issue I was mentioning.

Yeah, my recording count is off in all folders -- since day one.

They used to allow folders within folders, that's why I said that they used to have it right but then devolved into something that does not allow this configuration -- go figure.

Thanks for the constructive reply, unlike another poster in this thread.


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

Let's see, Microsoft is constantly sending out updates to all its supported operating systems and programs; Apple is constantly sending out updates to its operating systems just like Microsoft; My android phone gets updates to nearly all my apps almost weekly; Oracle is constantly sending put updates to Java and it goes on almost infinitum.

What microprocessor based system anywhere is not constantly being updated, where do you get your assumption that any one of these items is anywhere near perfect.

Agreed, the Hopper system has some missing elements that we wish were working or working better, but have you ever contemplated exactly how complex the coding for operating these DVRs really is?

Evidently the motherboards have a little bit of operational variation within the species, so that bumps the complexity up another order of magnitude.

You'll notice that often correcting one problem unintentionally (I must presume) creates another - can you imagine how frustrating that is to a programmer, much less we users.

There are a couple of items I'd like to see work or work better on my Hopper/Joeys, but basically they work pretty well (as well as or better than any other satellite/cable DVR except maybe for my HD TiVo - which by the way cannot record satellite programming).


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## Bogey62 (Dec 1, 2002)

Found a new one just yesterday and I don't see why this is happening since my software is the same version.

* Pressing the Format button on the Hopper or Joey remote while on an SD channel does
nothing now (stays locked in Partial Zoom mode) -- but, after pressing it on an SD channel and then switching to an HD channel afterwards the HD channel will be switched to a different mode (stretch, gray bar, etc.) due to the button presses on the SD channel!


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## Bogey62 (Dec 1, 2002)

Jim5506 said:


> Let's see, Microsoft is constantly sending out updates to all its supported operating systems and programs; Apple is constantly sending out updates to its operating systems just like Microsoft; My android phone gets updates to nearly all my apps almost weekly; Oracle is constantly sending put updates to Java and it goes on almost infinitum.
> 
> What microprocessor based system anywhere is not constantly being updated, where do you get your assumption that any one of these items is anywhere near perfect.
> 
> ...


I know exactly what you are saying, but I just am very annoyed that they spend time and resources to add new "features" instead of fixing glaring bugs. Nevermind what I think are useful features -- fix the real problems.

I've been around this stuff since the late 1980s with a C-band dish and then went to the small dishes in the summer of 2002, I've earned the right to complain about equipment that I am paying for including hundreds of dollars to Dish for upgrades in equipment over the years (unlike new customers that get everything for free up front).


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## TheGrove (Jan 10, 2007)

Bogey62 said:


> I'm aware of the shortcuts via colored buttons, but that doesn't resolve the issue I was mentioning.
> 
> Yeah, my recording count is off in all folders -- since day one.
> 
> ...


No problem, just trying to help.

I guess I'm not following your issue with getting to the menu options at the top when the Daily Schedule is up. My point was that you could use the red button to jump to the menu where you select what you are viewing (recordings, PTAT, Daily Schedule, etc) and you can then use your right arrow to move to the other menu options now that you are on that line instead of scrolling up and up to get on that line.


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## Bogey62 (Dec 1, 2002)

TheGrove said:


> No problem, just trying to help.
> 
> I guess I'm not following your issue with getting to the menu options at the top when the Daily Schedule is up. My point was that you could use the red button to jump to the menu where you select what you are viewing (recordings, PTAT, Daily Schedule, etc) and you can then use your right arrow to move to the other menu options now that you are on that line instead of scrolling up and up to get on that line.


Sorry, my bad. I see exactly what you're saying in regard to the menu now. A little brain fade on my part. 

Hey, can you resolve all the other issues I listed too? 

Thanks again.


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## acostapimps (Nov 6, 2011)

I think we're all beta testers with any DVR's we use with any provider, it just all depends on the initial installation when you sign up, But that's why we have this forum to educate us all, unlike to some of the uninformed or simply don't know all the features. That's why we always recommend to research each providers channel package (to combine which programming you watch the most) including DVR fees,features and history of the company, Feel free to fill in the blanks that I missed


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## moman19 (Oct 22, 2004)

Bogey62 said:


> Found a new one just yesterday and I don't see why this is happening since my software is the same version.
> 
> * Pressing the Format button on the Hopper or Joey remote while on an SD channel does
> nothing now (stays locked in Partial Zoom mode) -- but, after pressing it on an SD channel and then switching to an HD channel afterwards the HD channel will be switched to a different mode (stretch, gray bar, etc.) due to the button presses on the SD channel!


You are not alone with that issue. I noticed this too. I'll bet you are tuned to the Eastern satellites. Folks looking towards the West won't see this and will think you're delusional. In fact, since they are located in Colorado, who knows if this issue can even be easily duplicated if someone wanted to fix it?


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## 3HaloODST (Aug 9, 2010)

That issue must be something to do with the way the software is handling the low-res MPEG4 feeds vs the MPEG2 feeds on WA.


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## Bogey62 (Dec 1, 2002)

moman19 said:


> You are not alone with that issue. I noticed this too. I'll bet you are tuned to the Eastern satellites. Folks looking towards the West won't see this and will think you're delusional. In fact, since they are located in Colorado, who knows if this issue can even be easily duplicated if someone wanted to fix it?


I don't see the correlation between E vs W satellites and the issue I am reporting. Please elaborate.


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## Bogey62 (Dec 1, 2002)

3HaloODST said:


> That issue must be something to do with the way the software is handling the low-res MPEG4 feeds vs the MPEG2 feeds on WA.


Why did it just start all-of-a-sudden? I have the same software as I had a few days ago when the issue wasn't present.

C'mom, Dish, I don't need another "app" I need bugs fixed.


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## thomasjk (Jan 10, 2006)

Did you try a power off (pull the plug) reset to correct the format problem?


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## moman19 (Oct 22, 2004)

Bogey62 said:


> I don't see the correlation between E vs W satellites and the issue I am reporting. Please elaborate.


Is your dish aimed towards the Eastern satellites?


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## Bogey62 (Dec 1, 2002)

thomasjk said:


> Did you try a power off (pull the plug) reset to correct the format problem?


Yes, I've done both soft and hard resets. This issue just started out-of-the-blue a few days ago.

I know because I will sometimes stretch the screen on channels that have black borders due to using a plasma TV.


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## Bogey62 (Dec 1, 2002)

moman19 said:


> Is your dish aimed towards the Eastern satellites?


61.5 and 72

I still don't see how certain satellites can screw up my screen formatting. Maybe I'm just being thick and missing something here.


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## moman19 (Oct 22, 2004)

Bogey62 said:


> 61.5 and 72
> 
> I still don't see how certain satellites can screw up my screen formatting. Maybe I'm just being thick and missing something here.


I don't understand it either. But check with folks you know. I'll bet only those pointing towards the east will see this issue. It you have an Over the Air tuner, tune to an SD sub-channel. The Format button may work as expected on those SD channels. But as soon as you tune to an SD channel that is received via an eastern satellite, it will screw up again.


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## Bogey62 (Dec 1, 2002)

moman19 said:


> I don't understand it either. But check with folks you know. I'll bet only those pointing towards the east will see this issue. It you have an Over the Air tuner, tune to an SD sub-channel. The Format button may work as expected on those SD channels. But as soon as you tune to an SD channel that is received via an eastern satellite, it will screw up again.


I have no one to confirm with other than this group. I don't have the OTA tuner for the Hopper.


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## bbohl (Feb 9, 2010)

I don't understand it either. But check with folks you know. I'll bet only those pointing towards the east will see this issue. It you have an Over the Air tuner, tune to an SD sub-channel. The Format button may work as expected on those SD channels. But as soon as you tune to an SD channel that is received via an eastern satellite, it will screw up again.


I am on eastern and I cannot replicate the format issue (I didn't attempt from a joey). I also have the OTA module. It all works except on the OTA channels it always says "Normal" even though the format changes. It doesn't have to be a sub-channel.

However I am also running S400.


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## moman19 (Oct 22, 2004)

bbohl said:


> I am on eastern and I cannot replicate the format issue (I didn't attempt from a joey). I also have the OTA module. It all works except on the OTA channels it always says "Normal" even though the format changes. It doesn't have to be a sub-channel.
> 
> However I am also running S400.


Strange, very strange. I guess inconsistency can be rather consistent. :bang


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## Bogey62 (Dec 1, 2002)

I found a new issue that seems to have just shown up over the past day or so...

Go to your Daily Schedule of upcoming events (recordings).

Now scroll down the list until you reach the end either by manually scrolling with the down arrow or by using the page down button.

My Hopper will crash to a black screen and then back out to live TV before I get to the end of the list!

I checked the Joey and it can scroll down the entire list, but it has large patches of gray screen that move along with the scrolling list where there should be a solid screen of the events going by.

Can anyone reproduce this on their Hopper/Joey?


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

My Hopper does not do that.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

and posting a version of FW would be the initial point


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## thomasjk (Jan 10, 2006)

I've seen the issue you describe with the guide on my Hopper with S400. It seems to be related to the number of events in the schedule. In one I case I noticed that the last date in the daily schedule was a duplicate. It went something like 8/14,8/15 then 8/14 repeated. This did cause the jump to live TV.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I have heard of this before... I think it is another one of those problems where it is there one day and gone the next. When it is there it is repeatable, but when it is not then you can't force it. The description of repeated entries followed by a black screen and back to Live TV sounds familiar to me. I think it has been around for a while if it is what I'm thinking.


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## Bogey62 (Dec 1, 2002)

P Smith said:


> and posting a version of FW would be the initial point


When I started this thread I was on S315, now I am on S 316 NDGB (not sure if I need to post those trailing letters).

My Joey is using S298.

LOL, now that issue with the events list is gone (on both Hopper and Joey). I'm not sure if I was still on S315 when I noticed it, but if I was then why did it start out-of-the-blue with the same software version? I scroll that list at least once per week to see what upcoming events are scheduled. This is the first time I had that issue in the 3 months or so of having the Hopper/Joey setup.


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## Bogey62 (Dec 1, 2002)

OK, since 316:

The dropping of random locals from my custom guide is gone.

The scroll bars for timers, DVR events, recordings in my custom folders are finally proprotionate! Yeah.

ALL other issues at the start on this thread are still there.


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## Bogey62 (Dec 1, 2002)

Anyone have this?

Go to My Recordings, enter one of your folders or the No Folder folder.

Select a show and then from the popup menu select Edit.

Now select the Folder dropdown list and look at your list of folders.

Mine should look like this:

Aileen
Bill 
Both
Other

But, they look like this (only in this function, not elsewhere in the system):

Bill

Both
Other

Moving a show from one folder to another will show the list of folders, but the second name in the list is shifted to the first slot and there is a blank space in the second slot.

If I select the top slot (now my name) it will go to my wife's folder (not listed but still exists as it is overwritten by the second name in the list that has been shifted up), as it should.

If I select the blank second slot then it will go to my folder, as it should (second slot should show my name, but my name has been shifted to the first slot in the list).

This has been around since 315 for me, but I forgot to list it in my initial post for this thread.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

I would assure you - you'll be a beta tester forever, at least while you're still using the devices.


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## some guy (Oct 27, 2012)

The SD format issue has been discussed on other threads and should be fixed in an upcoming software update.


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## Bogey62 (Dec 1, 2002)

Gee, this is fun...

I reported yesterday that the issue with the non-proportionate scroll bars was gone as well was the crashing when scrolling to the bottom of the list of upcoming DVR events.

Both issues are back today!

I noticed that as another poaster in this thread said, the last date in the list of events is duplicated and if you look at the next to the last list of events before the crash you will see that there are some previous days events listed on the next sequential date...

Thurdsay 8/15

show title 8/15
show title 8/15
show title 8/14
show title 8/14

Thursday 8/15

show title...

CRASH!


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