# 1st Show Date



## dtv4metoday (Apr 14, 2006)

I just bought a D11-500 for my garage. I noticed that it has Original date of show episodes.

Why does the R15 not use that ?


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Hummm. Good question. I guess that info is then available in the DTV funded guide data. Earl, care to forward this one on to your friends?

Good catch dtv4me. I never thought of comparing the R15 guide data to non-DVR receivers. Probably cuz I don't have any non-DVR receivers, but that's another thread.

Dtv4me...and others...how much other "info" does the D11 or H20 offer when you keep pressing info on a show? I know the DTivos have alot of detail. Maybe it's time to stop blaming the guide data for the R15's SL problems......DUH. :grin:


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

I will be sure to ask...

(I really need to get a tickler list... I have about 10 things on the list)

I thought we "did" stop blaming the guide data, as we know it is faulty and you can't trust the flags that are in it....


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I thought we "did" stop blaming the guide data, as we know it is faulty and you can't trust the flags that are in it....


You are such a Funny Bunny! :lol:


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## dtv4metoday (Apr 14, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I will be sure to ask...
> 
> (I really need to get a tickler list... I have about 10 things on the list)
> 
> I thought we "did" stop blaming the guide data, as we know it is faulty and you can't trust the flags that are in it....


Well D11'S are using full guide data, except show details, (which that needs upgraded), so why can't the R15 use first run and etc as D11's do ?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

dtv4metoday said:


> Well D11'S are using full guide data, except show details, (which that needs upgraded), so why can't the R15 use first run and etc as D11's do ?


There's a difference between "showing" and "using" the First Run (and other data).

As for why the R15 doesn neither right now... I don't know.
I would only guess that the First/Repeat logic wasn't justing the First run date (as we all know TiVo does), because of worries of infringement....

But now with the signing of that new contract...... (note: this is just my guess, not something from my contact)


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## dtv4metoday (Apr 14, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> There's a difference between "showing" and "using" the First Run (and other data).
> 
> As for why the R15 doesn neither right now... I don't know.
> I would only guess that the First/Repeat logic wasn't justing the First run date (as we all know TiVo does), because of worries of infringement....
> ...


so you are saying Directv, can use 1st air date/whatever it is called on the d11's but not the r15's ?

just because of the dvr part.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

dtv4metoday said:


> so you are saying Directv, can use 1st air date/whatever it is called on the d11's but not the r15's ?
> 
> just because of the dvr part.


What would the D11 use it for? Its just a receiver it has no use for the date or honestly an other info in the guide data.


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## ad301 (Mar 30, 2004)

You guys should re-read this thread: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=54264

At least three posters there, myself included, mentioned that the data stream does contain the original air date, as seen on non-dvr receivers.


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## ad301 (Mar 30, 2004)

Clint Lamor said:


> What would the D11 use it for? Its just a receiver it has no use for the date or honestly an other info in the guide data.


Don't you ever get curious about a program you see in the guide? Actors, original date of production, director, rating, etc, etc. It's interesting information that doesn't have to be used for any purpose (on a non-dvr) other than to be informative. On a dvr, besides the presentation of information to the user, it can also be used for searching and scheduling purposes.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

dtv4metoday said:


> so you are saying Directv, can use 1st air date/whatever it is called on the d11's but not the r15's ?
> 
> just because of the dvr part.


The D11 doesn't "use" it, it display's it. (aka showing a detailed list of information of the program)

As for the R15, it doesn't "display it".... and it doesn't "use it" in the sense of using that data field to determin first run/last run.
Right now the R15 is lacking a full detail listing of all the data available about the show...


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

ad301 said:


> Don't you ever get curious about a program you see in the guide? Actors, original date of production, director, rating, etc, etc. It's interesting information that doesn't have to be used for any purpose (on a non-dvr) other than to be informative. On a dvr, besides the presentation of information to the user, it can also be used for searching and scheduling purposes.


Yes but that has nothing to do with his argument on on th D11.


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## dtv4metoday (Apr 14, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> The D11 doesn't "use" it, it display's it. (aka showing a detailed list of information of the program)
> 
> As for the R15, it doesn't "display it".... and it doesn't "use it" in the sense of using that data field to determin first run/last run.
> Right now the R15 is lacking a full detail listing of all the data available about the show...


Is it simply directv worried, that tivo might "sue" if the r15's "display the full guide date or would use it to perform searches?

I can MMAAAYYYBBEEEE see how they might react to the searching (barely). but how could their (if copyrighted) can they say directv can not use the full guide data, ? I mean thats tribunes material.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

I doubt the displaying of the information has anything to do with legal reasons.
It is probably just that what we see today in the R15, was original thought of to be the key information that uses want to see (aka, underestimating the usage of the extended data)

I know it is on the list of enhancements to provide a more detail listing of the programs.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

I need your help...

Does anyone here own a D10 or D11?
Can you provide me with the keystrokes, and possible a screen shot of the detailed information page for the programs


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## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

I've noticed that in guide shows have the name of the episode and year (aired?). But, when I check info after it's recorded, that information is gone. I verified this with this weeks NCIS. Is that part of the "extended data"?


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I need your help...
> 
> Does anyone here own a D10 or D11?
> Can you provide me with the keystrokes, and possible a screen shot of the detailed information page for the programs


My D11 is not active on my account, but the guide does work.

I'm not certain what you are looking for though. Simply highlighting a program in the guide, I get exactly the same information displayed on the D11 as on the R15.

But, when I press the Info button, I get substantially different displays. For example, for the show Invasion on ABC at 10 pm tonight (4-19-06):

D11: Invastion "Re-Evolution"
10:01 - 11:00 p TV-14-V
Drama, Suspense. (2006) William Fichtner, Eddie
Cibrian, Lisa Sheridan.

Russell and Dave find Szura's island. CC, Series.

R15: Invasion "Re-Evolution" Drama, Suspense (2006) William
Fichtner, Eddie Cibrian, Lisa Sheridan.

Russell and Dave find the island where Szura has been
housing some of the special hybrids; Larkin has an
accident and believes the pedestrian she struck with her
car is a hybrid. CC, Series

On the left side of the screen, the D11 offers Autotune, Showings, and Done. The R15 offers Record, Episodes, and Done.

I checked two or three other shows on two other networks, and found similar diffrences between the D11 and R15. In every case, the expanded info screen had a more comprehensive description on the R15 than on the D11, however the basic information was the same on both units.

If this isn't what you were looking for, let me know what you want and I'll try to check it out for you.

I don't have a convenient way to do a screen shot from the D11, sorry.

Carl


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Carl, that is great...

Funny... I thought people where saying the D11 had MORE information then the R15...

I am thinking about just picking up a D11 ($10 on Ebay)...

Earl


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

Yeah Earl, you need another DVR.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

ISWIZ said:


> Yeah Earl, you need another DVR.


Yah I know... that is why I am looking at the D11 
For purly research reasons...


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

I know I've seen it mentioned before, but while I thinks it important to show all that date info in the display, the actual "first run/repeat" logic is not that at all, right? The only way it's GENERALLY useful for most folks has little to do with original airdate or literal first-run status, you just want to be able to identify if you've recorded this particular episode recently, right? That logic seems more complex when different airing of a show seem to show different guide data. How does Tivo do it?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

TiVo drives it of the First Run Date 
(Proven during the Stargate Snafu (earlier this year) and other times)


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

So it just records one occurence of each orig. airdate in a 28 day period?
I'll have to watch more closely. I assumed that when a every episode of a show only had generic guide info ("The crew of Voyager is lost in the Delta Quadrant"), that the other data, like orig. airdate, was equally generic, but never actually looked, so I couldn't understand how it knew what it had recorded in the last 28 day. (I just attributed it to Magic.)

What would happen if two new episodes were originally aired on the same day (like occasionally happens during season premiers and sweeps and such?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Basically the logic works something like this: (This is derived from posts and other things, I don't have access to TiVo CODE)

28 Day Rule: The TiVo keeps an identifier of the show (be it the actually episode/series ID, or some sort of hash on the description). If a show is set to anything other then Record Duplicates, exclude if it is in the 28 day history.

First Run: If the First Run Date is the same day as the airing (plus or minus a few hours to account for 2nd airings) and is not in the 28 Day Rule... Record

Repeats: If it is not a First Run... 

No First Run Date Available: Treat as a Repeat


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

ApK said:


> So it just records one occurence of each orig. airdate in a 28 day period?
> I'll have to watch more closely. I assumed that when a every episode of a show only had generic guide info ("The crew of Voyager is lost in the Delta Quadrant"), that the other data, like orig. airdate, was equally generic, but never actually looked, so I couldn't understand how it knew what it had recorded in the last 28 day. (I just attributed it to Magic.)
> 
> What would happen if two new episodes were originally aired on the same day (like occasionally happens during season premiers and sweeps and such?


In the Tivo guide data each series is assigned a unique ID and and each show is assigned a unique ID. For example, this season of Stargate SG-1 has a Show ID of "SH225421". The episode "Ripple Effect" has an Episode ID of "EP2254210202" and has an original air date of 01/20/2006. Once a Tivo records this episode (as identified by the Episode ID not the name or description) it will not record it again due to the 28 day rule.

As far a two episodes running on the same day, they will both be recorded as long as the original air date is correct.


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

No one seems certain or not if the R-15 even has a 28 day rule ? Does it ?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Bobman said:


> No one seems certain or not if the R-15 even has a 28 day rule ? Does it ?


It has "something" as duplicate episodes don't record...
At least for one of my test cases (Dukes of Hazard). If it records the 5pm showing, it won't record the one that is at Midnight (or is noon the next day)...

Either way... there is something there.


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Either way... there is something there.


You should know Earl..................IT'S KARMA!:lol:


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> It has "something" as duplicate episodes don't record...
> At least for one of my test cases (Dukes of Hazard). If it records the 5pm showing, it won't record the one that is at Midnight (or is noon the next day)...
> 
> Either way... there is something there.


Well this is sort of true. With say Stargate it plays twice in one night, if the first run was recorded and I watched and deleted the show then the second showing tht night would be recorded also. This has happened with both Stargates, American Chopper, American Hotrod, and another show or two.


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## flynlr (Jan 21, 2006)

The ability to see the original air date as i can see on my phillips non dvr box is one of the most missed features now that I am using a R-15.. this in 1 quick look enabled me to see if a show in the guide was one I may have seen before.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Clint Lamor said:


> Well this is sort of true. With say Stargate it plays twice in one night, if the first run was recorded and I watched and deleted the show then the second showing tht night would be recorded also. This has happened with both Stargates, American Chopper, American Hotrod, and another show or two.


So as long as it's current in MYVOD is doesn't record, but if it's been deleted it does? Yeeck. Don't like that.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> It has "something" as duplicate episodes don't record...
> At least for one of my test cases (Dukes of Hazard). If it records the 5pm showing, it won't record the one that is at Midnight (or is noon the next day)...
> 
> Either way... there is something there.


Like Clint said, if you delete the 5pm show it will record the 12pm show. It seems to not to record the show only if it's in MYVOD. But, I swear once or twice it didn't record an episode that wasn't in MYVOD, but that could be the R15 missing the recording in general. It may not have the 28 day rule but at least it doesn't record dup's if they are already in MYVOD, that's a start.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> So as long as it's current in MYVOD is doesn't record, but if it's been deleted it does? Yeeck. Don't like that.


It is at least one way to avoid the 2nd recording on many of the cable networks...


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> So as long as it's current in MYVOD is doesn't record, but if it's been deleted it does? Yeeck. Don't like that.


That pretty much sums up how it has happened to me, I can't spak for anyone else.


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## Malibu13 (Sep 12, 2004)

Clint Lamor said:


> That pretty much sums up how it has happened to me, I can't spak for anyone else.


Doesn't record "dupes" of "Stargate SG-1" on fridays.............unless you delete it out of "VOD" prior to the next duplicate episode.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

Donnie Byrd said:


> Doesn't record "dupes" of "Stargate SG-1" on fridays.............unless you delete it out of "VOD" prior to the next duplicate episode.


Thats what I said


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## leesweet (Jul 15, 2003)

Hm. I've not checked (my bad) but doesn't the ToDo list have the history? If so, you'd think it would check against there. One more Tivo feature that was omitted to meet the release date? Or from (then) not wanting to violate Tivo IP?


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

leesweet said:


> Hm. I've not checked (my bad) but doesn't the ToDo list have the history? If so, you'd think it would check against there. One more Tivo feature that was omitted to meet the release date? Or from (then) not wanting to violate Tivo IP?


Yes the R15 does have a history but it's pretty useless right now. It doesn't give you any info at all about what happen like a history should, nor does it show you the correct date. It doesn't matter if you delete a show, power outage, etc... it will only show canceled and it only shows on the date of the show. So if you delete a show on the 22nd that was from the 19th the history will show that it was canceled on the 19th with no info about how or why.


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## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

leesweet said:


> Hm. I've not checked (my bad) but doesn't the ToDo list have the history? If so, you'd think it would check against there. One more Tivo feature that was omitted to meet the release date? Or from (then) not wanting to violate Tivo IP?


I'm not sure of the capacity of the history list. Mine only has 50 entries, going back one week.


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