# hard drive size



## JustinBrown (Feb 1, 2007)

is there a way to find out how big the hard disk is in my HR20? i would like to know if i have the 300GB or the 320GB.

also, are there downsides to replacing the internal hard drive with a larger one?

thanks.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

JustinBrown said:


> is there a way to find out how big the hard disk is in my HR20? i would like to know if i have the 300GB or the 320GB.
> 
> also, are there downsides to replacing the internal hard drive with a larger one?
> 
> thanks.


The -700 first came with a 300 while the -100 comes with a 320.

one "downside" is that you don't own the HR-20 to modify it.


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## litzdog911 (Jun 23, 2004)

Why replace the internal drive when it's so easy to add an external SATA drive?


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

litzdog911 said:


> Why replace the internal drive when it's so easy to add an external SATA drive?


Some people don't want/don't have room for an external drive.


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## JustinBrown (Feb 1, 2007)

litzdog911 said:


> Why replace the internal drive when it's so easy to add an external SATA drive?


i have no room for an external. it would look bad as well.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

300 and 320 are unformatted capacities. With the difference in formatted size, plus the size of the partition that DIRECTV uses for its own use, there's no real difference in the usable space in either. I'd be surprised if it amounted to more than 1 hour's worth of HD.


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

JustinBrown said:


> is there a way to find out how big the hard disk is in my HR20? i would like to know if i have the 300GB or the 320GB.
> 
> also, are there downsides to replacing the internal hard drive with a larger one?
> 
> thanks.


Downside=voided warantee on box you don't own..


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> 300 and 320 are unformatted capacities. With the difference in formatted size, plus the size of the partition that DIRECTV uses for its own use, there's no real difference in the usable space in either. I'd be surprised if it amounted to more than 1 hour's worth of HD.


I think it more comes from the 300 being Seagate and the 320 being Western Digital.


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## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

So the HR20s are *technically* easier to upgrade than the Tivo units? Nice! Is there a size limit as to what the HR20 can handle?


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## sbl (Jul 21, 2007)

No limit. I have put in a 750GB drive (internal now), I have heard that 1TB drives work. The eSATA drive I added also added a lot of heat to my setup.


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## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

Doubt there's anyway to transfer everything onto the new drive like you can with Tivo though? I wouldn't mind throwing a nice 1 TB in there, but don't want to lose what I already have.


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## wallyj (Jul 28, 2007)

I got two units last weekend and upgraded both of them to internal 750GB Seagates with no issues so far.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

wallyj said:


> I got two units last weekend and upgraded both of them to internal 750GB Seagates with no issues so far.


Just keep your fingers crossed that you never have to send the box back to D*. You may now be liable for the full cost of the box since you cracked the case, voided the warentee & tampered with it.


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## kaz (Sep 18, 2006)

RobertE said:


> Just keep your fingers crossed that you never have to send the box back to D*. You may now be liable for the full cost of the box since you cracked the case, voided the warentee & tampered with it.


"i got it this way" (after you swap in the original drive of course)


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## cartrivision (Jul 25, 2007)

RobertE said:


> Just keep your fingers crossed that you never have to send the box back to D*. You may now be liable for the full cost of the box since you cracked the case, voided the warentee & tampered with it.


Unless like mine and lots of other HR20s, it came with no "warranty void if seal broken" sticker, in which case you just put the original disk back into the broken unit before returning it. If it did come with a sticker and you could completely remove it cleanly, I suppose you could also claim that it never had a sticker unless they track which units had a sticker and which didn't, which I highly doubt they do.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

cartrivision said:


> Unless like mine and lots of other HR20s, it came with no "warranty void if seal broken" sticker, in which case you just put the original disk back into the broken unit before returning it. If it did come with a sticker and you could completely remove it cleanly, I suppose you could also claim that it never had a sticker unless they track which units had a sticker and which didn't, which I highly doubt they do.


Thats a several hundred dollar risk to take for each DVR. Is it really worth it?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

I read both of your "points of view", but just want to add: Have you ever had to deal with D* over returned equipment issues, when they don't go as you thought they should?
I'm not sure I want to go through that again, FWIW.


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## litzdog911 (Jun 23, 2004)

kturcotte said:


> Doubt there's anyway to transfer everything onto the new drive like you can with Tivo though? I wouldn't mind throwing a nice 1 TB in there, but don't want to lose what I already have.


Correct .... there's no way to transfer recordings between hard drives.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Actually copying data has been done successfully. It took quite a bit of experimentation, IIRC as no single partioning/drive copy software worked the first time. Recent upgrades might have solved the problems. I'm sorry to recommend this, but somewhere in the middle of the eSATA - Has been enabled, but.... are the two posts you're looking for.

Cheers,
Tom


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

veryoldschool said:


> The -700 first came with a 300 while the -100 comes with a 320.
> 
> one "downside" is that you don't own the HR-20 to modify it.


Quite not true - I saw many HR20-700 with WD 320 GB HDD.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

kturcotte said:


> Doubt there's anyway to transfer everything onto the new drive like you can with Tivo though? I wouldn't mind throwing a nice 1 TB in there, but don't want to lose what I already have.


Ghost could do it, plus hands job . 
a) install clean 1TB; after initialization, take paramters of 3rd raw partition
b) do 'ghost -ir' for all sectors from original 320 GB to 1TB disk
c) correct 3rd partition data in MBR according a)


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

P Smith said:


> Quite not true - I saw many HR20-700 with WD 320 GB HDD.


The first -700s did come with the Seagate drives & I know the -100s didn't, is all I really said.


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## iotp (Aug 13, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> The first -700s did come with the Seagate drives & I know the -100s didn't, is all I really said.


I took SteveL's advice and upgraded the internal. Earl B mentioned that a 500GB drive would yield 94 hours of HD MPEG-4 content. Look at it from this perspective -- $99 for a 500GB drive that is warrantied for 5 years, makes it all too easy! The drive I used was a Seagate retail 500GB, it installed no problem right out of the box, and is really quiet.

I did not want the external drive, really no room for it. Plus I just shelved the 320GB that came with it. Since I am pretty PC savvy (just happen to do that for a living) it was pretty straight forward after modifying about 10 Tivo's over the last few years..

I'll record all my local HD content from MPEG-4 and see how it goes. I did leave the OTA in place, just to make sure the HD locals work ok. After about 2 weeks of having the HR20, it's starting to "grow" on me.

Yes, it replaced an HR10-250 unit with a 500GB single drive in it. Although I really miss the TIVO UI (User interface) the HR20 works and is a bit faster.

I am trying to talk my wife into replacing the other HR10-250, but the virdict is still out on that one. I got the retention HR20, MPEG-4 dish, free 6 months HBO/SHOW for $19.99. We'll see how that one goes over the next couple of weeks.


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## Carbon (Sep 22, 2006)

Does anyone know if there will be a day that we can add an external drive instead of "replace" the internal? It seems like such a waste to me to replace the internal with an 500gig external that would yield only 500gigs instead of 800 (internal and external combined +/- a gig for formatting)


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## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

If you use an external drive, can you go back and forth between the external and internal until the internal is finally empty? When you want to watch something on the internal drive, disconnect the external, then reconnect it after?


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

kturcotte said:


> If you use an external drive, can you go back and forth between the external and internal until the internal is finally empty? When you want to watch something on the internal drive, disconnect the external, then reconnect it after?


yes you can, but you will have to restart the reciever every time..


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## vertigo235 (Mar 18, 2007)

So, reaplcing the internal drive is as easy as simply replacing it? Is it an SATA drive? I can use the old one in my computer?


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## hobie346 (Feb 23, 2007)

vertigo235 said:


> So, reaplcing the internal drive is as easy as simply replacing it? Is it an SATA drive? I can use the old one in my computer?


It's a SATA drive and yes you can reuse it in a PC/Mac system.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Carbon said:


> Does anyone know if there will be a day that we can add an external drive instead of "replace" the internal? It seems like such a waste to me to replace the internal with an 500gig external that would yield only 500gigs instead of 800 (internal and external combined +/- a gig for formatting)


Current expectations are that we will be able to add instead of replace someday. After a slew of other features and before beloved DLB. 

Cheers,
Tom


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## mikek (May 18, 2007)

hobie346 said:


> It's a SATA drive and yes you can reuse it in a PC/Mac system.


I wasn't able to use mine in a PC. It wouldn't power up. And the computer wouldnt recognize it. It would only work in the HR20. Couldnt find a fix for it.

This was a 320GB WD from a HR20-100.

-mk


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

mikek said:


> I wasn't able to use mine in a PC. It wouldn't power up. And the computer wouldnt recognize it. It would only work in the HR20. Couldnt find a fix for it.


Did you plug in the power cable?


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## iotp (Aug 13, 2007)

vertigo235 said:


> So, reaplcing the internal drive is as easy as simply replacing it? Is it an SATA drive? I can use the old one in my computer?


Purchased off the shelf, Seagate 500GB SATAII drive. Installed less then 10 minutes, had to locate a damn T10 torx.

Powered up, wholla!


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## Steveknj (Nov 14, 2006)

mikek said:


> I wasn't able to use mine in a PC. It wouldn't power up. And the computer wouldnt recognize it. It would only work in the HR20. Couldnt find a fix for it.
> 
> This was a 320GB WD from a HR20-100.
> 
> -mk


Also check the jumpers on the hard drive and make sure they are set correctly (MA, SL, or CS)


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## Steveknj (Nov 14, 2006)

iotp said:


> Purchased off the shelf, Seagate 500GB SATAII drive. Installed less then 10 minutes, had to locate a damn T10 torx.
> 
> Powered up, wholla!


So if you replace the internal or use an external the HR20 automatically recognizes the drive and sets it up for you (i.e. formats the drive and installs the DVR app) ?


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

Steveknj said:


> So if you replace the internal or use an external the HR20 automatically recognizes the drive and sets it up for you (i.e. formats the drive and installs the DVR app) ?


yep..


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

Steveknj said:


> Also check the jumpers on the hard drive and make sure they are set correctly (MA, SL, or CS)


only jumper on sata drive is the transfer speed lock..and it will run fine with that removed..


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## Steveknj (Nov 14, 2006)

houskamp said:


> only jumper on sata drive is the transfer speed lock..and it will run fine with that removed..


Thanks. I've never replaced a SATA drive, so that's great as those bleeping jumpers were always a PITA to set.


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## Volman (Jul 13, 2007)

I've asked this before and not gotten an answer.Can anyone help?

If you add an External sata drive,can you unplug power to the internal to lower the temperature inside the box and to stop wear and tear on the internal drive since you are not using it?Any reason not to do this? It seems like this would be advisable.I assume there is a separate power cord to the internal drive?
Thanks!


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## NKy.Yall (Apr 8, 2004)

veryoldschool said:


> The -700 first came with a 300 while the -100 comes with a 320.
> 
> one "downside" is that you don't own the HR-20 to modify it.


Can you advise what that translates to or equals as far as hours of programming goes ???


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

NKy.Yall said:


> Can you advise what that translates to or equals as far as hours of programming goes ???


Can "I"?, no since I don't remember.
It depends on: SD, HD MPEG-2, HD MPEG-4 & differs in the number of hours of each.

Hopefully someone will post your answer soon.


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## Thaedron (Jun 29, 2007)

Volman said:


> I've asked this before and not gotten an answer.Can anyone help?
> 
> If you add an External sata drive,can you unplug power to the internal to lower the temperature inside the box and to stop wear and tear on the internal drive since you are not using it?Any reason not to do this? It seems like this would be advisable.I assume there is a separate power cord to the internal drive?
> Thanks!


Sorry Volman, I don't know the answer, but would like to. Has anyone experimented with this?


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## thekochs (Oct 7, 2006)

houskamp said:


> yep..


You don't have to do a RESET EVERYTHING to config ?
I assume it comes up with all the default settings ?
Is the HDD SATA or SATAII ?.....750GB at FRYS are under $200.


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

Volman said:


> I've asked this before and not gotten an answer.Can anyone help?
> 
> If you add an External sata drive,can you unplug power to the internal to lower the temperature inside the box and to stop wear and tear on the internal drive since you are not using it?Any reason not to do this? It seems like this would be advisable.I assume there is a separate power cord to the internal drive?
> Thanks!


As it uses the temp sensor in the drive, DO NOT under any conditions disconect internal drive. This would render the fan inop..


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

thekochs said:


> You don't have to do a RESET EVERYTHING to config ?
> I assume it comes up with all the default settings ?
> Is the HDD SATA or SATAII ?.....750GB at FRYS are under $200.


no reset everything needed.. the only things I know that "dissapear" are the favorites, series links, and vod activation (as well as recordings staying on drive) 
there are no default settings...


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

NKy.Yall said:


> Can you advise what that translates to or equals as far as hours of programming goes ???


rough (very rough  ) aproximations are 500=2x space 750=3x.....
original specs I believe are 30 mpeg2, 50 mpeg4, 100 SD...


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## Sirshagg (Dec 30, 2006)

NKy.Yall said:


> Can you advise what that translates to or equals as far as hours of programming goes ???


I found these numbersi nthe Dish foruim. Can anyone confirm if they are good for D too? Also, doesn't the HR20 reserve some space, and that space can be different depending on the size of the drive?

1 hr of MPEG2 SD = approx 1 GB
1 hr of MPEG2 HD = approx 4 - 5 GB
1 hr of MPEG4 HD = approx 2 - 3 GB


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Sirshagg said:


> I found these numbersi nthe Dish foruim. Can anyone confirm if they are good for D too? Also, doesn't the HR20 reserve some space, and that space can be different depending on the size of the drive?
> 
> 1 hr of MPEG2 SD = approx 1 GB
> 1 hr of MPEG2 HD = approx 4 - 5 GB
> 1 hr of MPEG4 HD = approx 2 - 3 GB


"That space" is either 50 or 100 Gigs.


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## finaldiet (Jun 13, 2006)

Did you guys have to buy an esata to esate cable with your seagates? And if so, what would you recommend?


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## NKy.Yall (Apr 8, 2004)

veryoldschool said:


> "That space" is either 50 or 100 Gigs.


Many thanks to all for your response{s}


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## Thaedron (Jun 29, 2007)

houskamp said:


> As it uses the temp sensor in the drive, DO NOT under any conditions disconect internal drive. This would render the fan inop..


Yuck, that's about as appetizing as a freshly expelled hairball...

What a complete waste of electricity / unnecessary heat generation to have that hard drive spinning solely to provide temperature sensing to the system... DVRs are not environmentally friendly to begin with, but the implementation as designed could hardly be worse (add-on drive is a replacement for, rather than in addition to the internal AND cannot power down the unused internal drive). :nono2:


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Must remember these are designed as leased units and as such, are not designed to have users open up the box to modify anything.

39 watts of "power wasting"?
Turn off one light bulb to compensate.


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## Canis Lupus (Oct 16, 2006)

most eSATA drives don't come with cables, but Monoprice always has them for cheap.

http://www.monoprice.com

just search "esata"



finaldiet said:


> Did you guys have to buy an esata to esate cable with your seagates? And if so, what would you recommend?


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## Thaedron (Jun 29, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> 39 watts of "power wasting"?
> Turn off one light bulb to compensate.


It's not just 39 watts, it's 39 watts * every user with an HR20 and an external SATA drive. And that doesn't change the fact that it's a poor design.

I need all of my light bulbs, will you turn one off for me when if I hook up an external SATA drive?


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## Steveknj (Nov 14, 2006)

Is adding and external eSata drive fully supported by D*. With the concerns about added heat, I would be concerned that adding that extra drive could end up toasting the box, and if i have to replace it, I don't want to be liable for the damage an external drive might cause (this is assuming that the external drive is not faulty in any way, it's just a heat related problem).


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

Steveknj said:


> Is adding and external eSata drive fully supported by D*. With the concerns about added heat, I would be concerned that adding that extra drive could end up toasting the box, and if i have to replace it, I don't want to be liable for the damage an external drive might cause (this is assuming that the external drive is not faulty in any way, it's just a heat related problem).


Adding an extrernal drive is not "officialy" supported by D*.. but they have said that it is ok to do.. 
as the external drive is "external" it does not contribute to heat at all and it also has it's own power supply so that eliminates any stress on the box..


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> Must remember these are designed as leased units and as such, are not designed to have users open up the box to modify anything.
> 
> 39 watts of "power wasting"?
> Turn off one light bulb to compensate.


or go back to OTA straight to your tv and save all the power for the reciever


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Thaedron said:


> It's not just 39 watts, it's 39 watts * every user with an HR20 and an external SATA drive. And that doesn't change the fact that it's a poor design.
> 
> I need all of my light bulbs, will you turn one off for me when if I hook up an external SATA drive?


Sorry I've already trimmed my carbon footprint down to a minimum. 40 gallons of gas a year for one thing. If you want all of your HD, maybe you can drive less to offset it.

This topic has been kicked to death before.


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## Sirshagg (Dec 30, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> Sorry I've already trimmed my carbon footprint down to a minimum. 40 gallons of gas a year for one thing. If you want all of your HD, maybe you can drive less to offset it.
> 
> This topic has been kicked to death before.


:soapbox:

I think the point was that they could / should design these devices to be more energy efficent. I'm no engeneer, but I doubt they need to use 40w to begin with. Then using the internal HD simply for a temp gauge when an external drive is attached is ridiculous (simply from an energy conservation POV).


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> Sorry I've already trimmed my carbon footprint down to a minimum. 40 gallons of gas a year for one thing. If you want all of your HD, maybe you can drive less to offset it.
> 
> This topic has been kicked to death before.


+1...
and the computer I'm typing this on pulls 3 times that much :lol:


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## Volman (Jul 13, 2007)

houskamp said:


> As it uses the temp sensor in the drive, DO NOT under any conditions disconect internal drive. This would render the fan inop..


Thanks!I had no idea the temp.sensor was on the HDD.

That brings up another question:How hot do replacement INTERNAL drives(500GB or 750GB) run?I know it should be somewhat model and possibly size dependent.Anyone check the temp of a larger internal SATA?


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## thecult03 (Sep 5, 2007)

I just signed up for D* today after switching from TWC. I currently have external SATA connected and would like to know if I should go internal or external. How difficult is it to swap out internal drive? I have done a number of pc's so I assume it is similar. Any suggestions on which drive? WD tends to work the best???


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## cartrivision (Jul 25, 2007)

houskamp said:


> rough (very rough  ) aproximations are 500=2x space 750=3x.....
> original specs I believe are 30 mpeg2, 50 mpeg4, 100 SD...


In "real life" measurements, I was getting about 35 hours of MPEG2 HD recording capacity on my HR20 with the original 320 GB disk, and after upgrading to a 750 GB disk, I get about 120 hours of MPGE2 HD recording capacity.... about a 3.4x improvement.

When everything goes to MPEG4, I estimate that I will have about 200 hours of HD recording capacity on my 750 GB disk.


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## cartrivision (Jul 25, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> Must remember these are designed as leased units and as such, are not designed to have users open up the box to modify anything.
> 
> 39 watts of "power wasting"?
> Turn off one light bulb to compensate.


I keep candles and matches around my house so I don't plug any light bulbs into my UPS... just my HR20, and without an unused disk drawing x number of watts, my UPS backup time will be significantly increased, which is another reason that I went the internal disk replacement route.


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## cartrivision (Jul 25, 2007)

Volman said:


> Thanks!I had no idea the temp.sensor was on the HDD.
> 
> That brings up another question:How hot do replacement INTERNAL drives(500GB or 750GB) run?I know it should be somewhat model and possibly size dependent.Anyone check the temp of a larger internal SATA?


With my original 320 GB disk my temp varied between the 105 and 110 depending on ambient temperature and since replacing the disk with a WD 750 GB disk, I've seen no increases in the observed temperature.

If your unit is running much hotter than that, not stacking it on top of another warm piece of equipment will help lower the internal temperature.

I was actually surprised at how cool to the touch my new Western Digital 750 GB disk ran compared to some old WD drives that I have in desktop computers. Some of those old WD (IDE) drives are actually very hot to the touch.


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

Volman said:


> Thanks!I had no idea the temp.sensor was on the HDD.
> 
> That brings up another question:How hot do replacement INTERNAL drives(500GB or 750GB) run?I know it should be somewhat model and possibly size dependent.Anyone check the temp of a larger internal SATA?


Yep.. my suggestions:
1st Internal drive swaping WILL VOID YOUR WARRENTY! This is NOT suggested.
2nd I would be very carefull about power usage on a replacement disk (esp with larger drives) this is NOT a computer with a 300w power supply.. Temp could also be and issue with hotter running drives.


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## Volman (Jul 13, 2007)

cartrivision said:


> With my original 320 GB disk my temp varied between the 105 and 110 depending on ambient temperature and since replacing the disk with a WD 750 GB disk, I've seen no increases in the observed temperature.


Wow,I expected it to run hotter.That's excellent.Thanks!


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

cartrivision said:


> In "real life" measurements, I was getting about 35 hours of MPEG2 HD recording capacity on my HR20 with the original 320 GB disk, and after upgrading to a 750 GB disk, I get about 120 hours of MPGE2 HD recording capacity.... about a 3.4x improvement.
> 
> When everything goes to MPEG4, I estimate that I will have about 200 hours of HD recording capacity on my 750 GB disk.


I've been trying to figure out the ratios since last November and have come to the conclusion that the closest you can get is a "ballpark figure" or an educated guesstimate. I have had over 50 hours of MPEG2 (all movies, I added up the total minutes and divided by 60) on the internal drive and no, I cannot support that finding by empirical data, just observation and simlple math. I sort of believe that the hours are a function of what you are recording. I did record a complete 1080i 6 hour program and when I deleted it, the "list's" "time remaining" graph dropped by 14%. Asked my wife to figure the equation out on Excel and she arrived at the figure on the box.

So what's correct? I know what I did and I did the math several times on calculators and Excel. I got the same answer each time. My wife did the equation correctly. And yet we arrived at different answers. The mind boggles.

Now, I have all four of my 700s hooked up to 750 Gig eSATAs and the MPEG formats are all mixed up. Too much trouble to sort the hours out. It's a lot using the eSATAs, and that is what counts


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## cartrivision (Jul 25, 2007)

rich584 said:


> I've been trying to figure out the ratios since last November and have come to the conclusion that the closest you can get is a "ballpark figure" or an educated guesstimate. I have had over 50 hours of MPEG2 (all movies, I added up the total minutes and divided by 60) on the internal drive and no, I cannot support that finding by empirical data, just observation and simlple math. I sort of believe that the hours are a function of what you are recording. I did record a complete 1080i 6 hour program and when I deleted it, the "list's" "time remaining" graph dropped by 14%. Asked my wife to figure the equation out on Excel and she arrived at the figure on the box.
> 
> So what's correct? I know what I did and I did the math several times on calculators and Excel. I got the same answer each time. My wife did the equation correctly. And yet we arrived at different answers. The mind boggles.
> 
> Now, I have all four of my 700s hooked up to 750 Gig eSATAs and the MPEG formats are all mixed up. Too much trouble to sort the hours out. It's a lot using the eSATAs, and that is what counts


I think that as you stated Rich, it depends on what you are recording. My figures were based on recordings that were a wide variety of movies and video tape source material, including some sports programming with lots of motion. I think I remember reading once that film sourced programming can be compressed more than video sourced material, and that with both film and video source material, with more motion in the source material, less compression can be accomplished.


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## mikek (May 18, 2007)

Jeremy W said:


> Did you plug in the power cable?


Yep, and I played around with different jumper settings.

The HDD taken out of the HR20-100 would not power up and it would not get recognized by 2 different computers. It also wouldn't power up or do anything when I connected with a USB adapter. It also would not work in another DVR.

But when I put it back in the HR20 it worked fine.

This is a WD 320GB HDD.

-mk


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

mikek said:


> Yep, and I played around with different jumper settings.
> 
> The HDD taken out of the HR20-100 would not power up and it would not get recognized by 2 different computers. It also wouldn't power up or do anything when I connected with a USB adapter. It also would not work in another DVR.
> 
> ...


You are not the only one. There was a poster [sometime back] that had the same issue with a Seagate. I would only boot up about 20% of the time unless it was what he called a hot boot [not that I really know what he meant, but maybe if the drive had been on & connected for some time].


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

cartrivision said:


> I think that as you stated Rich, it depends on what you are recording. My figures were based on recordings that were a wide variety of movies and video tape source material, including some sports programming with lots of motion. I think I remember reading once that film sourced programming can be compressed more than video sourced material, and that with both film and video source material, with more motion in the source material, less compression can be accomplished.


So, I got 50 hours of MPEG2 because...? And please, keep it simple enough for a PDE to understand. In my mind more compressed would mean more data on whatever storage system you use. I have noticed a difference in PQ in some older movies. Would that mean they were broadcast poorly or with less compression? Or was it just a case of a poorly recorded movie being broadcast correctly, proving that old Irish saying, "You can't shine ****e."


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

mikek said:


> Yep, and I played around with different jumper settings.
> 
> The HDD taken out of the HR20-100 would not power up and it would not get recognized by 2 different computers. It also wouldn't power up or do anything when I connected with a USB adapter. It also would not work in another DVR.
> 
> ...


That's logical. They are "married", just as the eSATAs "marry" particular HR20s. The eSatas come formatted for a PC. Perhaps the HD in the HR20 is not formatted for PC use?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Rich, "I think" a bunch of blue sky will compress much more than a bunch of football player will. The more compression, the less space used.


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## cartrivision (Jul 25, 2007)

rich584 said:


> So, I got 50 hours of MPEG2 because...? And please, keep it simple enough for a PDE to understand. In my mind more compressed would mean more data on whatever storage system you use. I have noticed a difference in PQ in some older movies. Would that mean they were broadcast poorly or with less compression? Or was it just a case of a poorly recorded movie being broadcast correctly, proving that old Irish saying, "You can't shine ****e."


More compression means *LESS* data has to be stored on disk, not more. You are storing the raw MPEG compressed data stream on the disk and it goes through a MPEG decoder as you read it off the disk to watch it.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> Rich, "I think" a bunch of blue sky will compress much more than a bunch of football player will. The more compression, the less space used.


He, he. That's exactly what I meant. Thanx.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

cartrivision said:


> More compression means *LESS* data has to be stored on disk, not more. You are storing the raw MPEG compressed data stream on the disk and it goes through a MPEG decoder as you read it off the disk to watch it.


That's what I meant. These are new concepts that I have just started to try to get a handle on. Thanx.


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## Thaedron (Jun 29, 2007)

Sirshagg said:


> I think the point was that they could / should design these devices to be more energy efficent. I'm no engeneer, but I doubt they need to use 40w to begin with. Then using the internal HD simply for a temp gauge when an external drive is attached is ridiculous (simply from an energy conservation POV).


Yes, that was precisely my point. It's obvious that getting an energy-star certification for the device was very low or not even on the initial list of requirements for the device, but the times, they are a changin'.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Since this thread is about hard drive size, let's not hijack it into another energy waste thread please.


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## thekochs (Oct 7, 2006)

houskamp said:


> no reset everything needed.. the only things I know that "dissapear" are the favorites, series links, and vod activation (as well as recordings staying on drive)
> there are no default settings...


Obviously, after the unit comes back up you can re-config/re-enter these settings ?

Also, is the HDD SATAII needed or is just SATA OK ?


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

thekochs said:


> Obviously, after the unit comes back up you can re-config/re-enter these settings ?
> 
> Also, is the HDD SATAII needed or is just SATA OK ?


yep.. you will have to enter them...
OEM drive in -700 is : http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=281&language=en


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## pdawg17 (Jul 17, 2006)

Between Seagate and WD, which tends to be a quieter internal drive?


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Use that one what support AAM and setup it as "quiet".


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## rtravis (Aug 27, 2007)

Either the Seagate DB35 or Western Digital drives with the part number ending in JB ( such as WD2500AAJB ) are designed for DVR's. Hope this answers your question.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Sure ? I saw *SATA *WD 320/500 GB AAJS and AAKS in D* and E* DVRs.


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## Andrew67 (Aug 13, 2007)

rtravis said:


> Either the Seagate DB35 or Western Digital drives with the part number ending in JB ( such as WD2500AAJB ) are designed for DVR's. Hope this answers your question.


It's probably more correct to say that drives ending in JB are marketed for DVR's.


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## maldini (Aug 22, 2007)

Quick Questions:

1) Are the external drives plug and play or do I have to perform any sw hacking to get the system to use the external drive instead of the internal drive?

2) Does the external drive have to be pre-formatted with SW?


I am hoping its as simple as powering down the unit, plugging in the external drive and the rebooting the system and reentering season passes and favorites and be done with it but that may be too hopeful..


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

maldini said:


> Quick Questions:
> 
> 1) Are the external drives plug and play or do I have to perform any sw hacking to get the system to use the external drive instead of the internal drive?
> 
> ...


Your hopes are right.


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

maldini said:


> I am hoping its as simple as powering down the unit, plugging in the external drive and the rebooting the system and reentering season passes and favorites and be done with it but that may be too hopeful..


Exactly


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> Your hopes are right.


One more question about the compession issue. Am I correct in assuming that MPEG4 is more compressed than MPEG2?


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

rich584 said:


> Am I correct in assuming that MPEG4 is more compressed than MPEG2?


In the context of DirecTV, it is safe to assume that an MPEG4 channel will be broadcast at a lower bitrate than an MPEG2 channel. So yes, it would be "more compressed."


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Jeremy W said:


> In the context of DirecTV, it is safe to assume that an MPEG4 channel will be broadcast at a lower bitrate than an MPEG2 channel. So yes, it would be "more compressed."


OK, so what's next? MPEG6 or is it exponential? What has the "bitrate" to do with compression? And PQ?


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

rich584 said:


> OK, so what's next? MPEG6 or is it exponential?


MPEG5 is next in the numbering sequence, but it doesn't exist yet. The reason it goes from MPEG2 to MPEG4 is because MPEG3 was abandoned.


rich584 said:


> What has the "bitrate" to do with compression? And PQ?


The higher the bitrate, the less compression is applied to the video, and the higher the PQ. The bitrate is the amount of data sent down for the channel in a given amount of time, usually measured in megabits per second (Mbps).


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## awalt (Jul 30, 2007)

maldini said:


> I am hoping its as simple as powering down the unit, plugging in the external drive and the rebooting the system and reentering season passes and favorites and be done with it but that may be too hopeful..


Sorry for the dumb question, what are season passes? Is that the season-long recording of a series?


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## Michael D'Angelo (Oct 21, 2006)

awalt said:


> Sorry for the dumb question, what are season passes? Is that the season-long recording of a series?


Yes season passes are when you record the series of a show.

Season passes are actually TiVo.

Series links are the HR20 and R15.


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## thekochs (Oct 7, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> In the context of DirecTV, it is safe to assume that an MPEG4 channel will be broadcast at a lower bitrate than an MPEG2 channel. So yes, it would be "more compressed."


You know, in theory MPEG-4 not only offers better compression but better quality than MPEG-2....win/win. It has more precsion in dealing with intra-frame artifacts and other items...however, this is all dependent on how the encoders are setup to capture the source. I can't say for sure but since bandwidth is the name of the game it has been told to me the use of MPEG-4 is for the better compression primarily by the MSOs.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

thekochs said:


> You know, in theory MPEG-4 not only offers better compression but better quality than MPEG-2....win/win.


Not just in theory, it's a fact. At the same bitrate, MPEG-4 will win every time. A lower bitrate MPEG-4 feed can even look better than a higher bitrate MPEG-2 feed.


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## thekochs (Oct 7, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> Not just in theory, it's a fact. At the same bitrate, MPEG-4 will win every time. A lower bitrate MPEG-4 feed can even look better than a higher bitrate MPEG-2 feed.


Agreed....the *theory* was it depends on how they have the bit rate and also one of the other advantages MPEG-4 supports in coding of video objects with spatial and temporal scalability. MPEG-2 as you mentioned is more bit rate scalable, MPEG-4 lets them play/tweek at another level. I'm sure D* has worked out for them the best combo of bandwidth and improved quality over cable but my only point was that in trying to understand how much you can store on any given HDD size you would have to know alot about how D* and the MSOs are setting up the encoders.....with MPEG-4 there is many more variables to guess at. At the end of the day....I'm happy with the quality. 

Anyway, HDDs are getting cheap.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

thekochs said:


> my only point was that in trying to understand how much you can store on any given HDD size you would have to know alot about how D* and the MSOs are setting up the encoders


Not really. The only thing that matters is the bitrate that the encoder is pumping out. All of the other options make no difference in the storage space.


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## pdawg17 (Jul 17, 2006)

Andrew67 said:


> It's probably more correct to say that drives ending in JB are marketed for DVR's.


I'm looking for quiet 750gb internal drive options for the HR-20 but can't find anything like this at newegg...is there no such thing yet at this capacity?


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## awalt (Jul 30, 2007)

pdawg17 said:


> I'm looking for quiet 750gb internal drive options for the HR-20 but can't find anything like this at newegg...is there no such thing yet at this capacity?


I guess it depends on your room, where you house them, etc., but I have bought two of the Seagate Free Agent 750 GB drives at NewEgg:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822148255

with this cable:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16812191017

and they seem very quiet to me - I have no complaints at all!


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## doggiedoc (Sep 7, 2007)

P Smith said:


> Ghost could do it, plus hands job .
> a) install clean 1TB; after initialization, take paramters of 3rd raw partition
> b) do 'ghost -ir' for all sectors from original 320 GB to 1TB disk
> c) correct 3rd partition data in MBR according a)


Hi all - this is my first post but I've been lurking for some time now. I've been trying to find an answer in this and other threads as to the feasibility of duplicating the contents of the internal drive in my HR20-700 to a larger drive (internal or external).

I have successfully duplicated the contents of an eSATA drive to another eSATA drive of the exact same size with a block transfer utility (Drive Genius - Prosoft). My question may show my ignorance but won't the file structure (partition size) still be the same on the new larger drive? I don't have different size drives to experiment with yet without pulling the internal drive out of my HR20, so I was hoping someone else had "been there, done that".

Thanks in Advance!
Doc


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## Thaedron (Jun 29, 2007)

awalt said:


> I guess it depends on your room, where you house them, etc., but I have bought two of the Seagate Free Agent 750 GB drives at NewEgg


I think pdawg was asking specifically about the 'JB' drives that were noted above to be designed for DVR use.

Personally, I'm not sure how much emphasis to put on DVR design or not. Or even what specific features/specs might be varied to support DVR use.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Thaedron said:


> I think pdawg was asking specifically about the 'JB' drives that were noted above to be designed for DVR use.
> 
> Personally, I'm not sure how much emphasis to put on DVR design or not. Or even what specific features/specs might be varied to support DVR use.


"I think" the DVR hard drives are spec'd to be quieter.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

veryoldschool said:


> "I think" the DVR hard drives are spec'd to be quieter.


Its consumer parameter, but manufacturers have other more important, like sustain speed, recalibration period and frequency of it, etc.
Reading white papers from WD or Maxtor/Seagate will give you real picture.


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## jeffwltrs (Apr 2, 2006)

There is a 750GB Seagate Pro Esata on sale at CC for $199! Do this sound like a good deal? They don't carry esata cables though.


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

cartrivision said:


> Unless like mine and lots of other HR20s, it came with no "warranty void if seal broken" sticker, in which case you just put the original disk back into the broken unit before returning it. If it did come with a sticker and you could completely remove it cleanly, I suppose you could also claim that it never had a sticker unless they track which units had a sticker and which didn't, which I highly doubt they do.


Or they fire it up and see that the drive hasn't been accessed in months. Old guide data, old firmware etc. If they wanted to be picky.

OT: Cartrivision? Did you get stuck with one of those VTRs? I forget who was selling the cartrivision, Sears maybe?


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## cartrivision (Jul 25, 2007)

TBoneit said:


> Or they fire it up and see that the drive hasn't been accessed in months. Old guide data, old firmware etc. If they wanted to be picky.


Oh, I'm sure that there better ways that they could tell if they really cared, but the fact that they don't even seem to be putting the waranty seal stickers on the units anymore suggests to me that they don't care, and I would bet my life that they aren't removing and analyzing disks from returned units to check for the date it was last accessed.



> OT: Cartrivision? Did you get stuck with one of those VTRs? I forget who was selling the cartrivision, Sears maybe?


Yeah, Sears sold them in the early 70's pre-dating Betamax by several years. Since I was just a kid and didn't have the $1600 that they cost back then, I only wished that I had one, which may explain why I now have 4 DVRs/Tivos with the capability of recording 8 different programs at one time.


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## iotp (Aug 13, 2007)

I want my ON-TV back. UHF programming that is.. :lol:


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## mganga (Dec 4, 2006)

jeffwltrs said:


> There is a 750GB Seagate Pro Esata on sale at CC for $199! Do this sound like a good deal? They don't carry esata cables though.


it do, it do...

i really want one myself but hate the idea of having unplug and plug the power every time to switch back and forth...

anyone know would we still have to operate this way?


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

mganga said:


> i really want one myself but hate the idea of having unplug and plug the power every time to switch back and forth...
> 
> anyone know would we still have to operate this way?


Yes, it still works like this. But why would you be frequently switching back and forth?


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## mganga (Dec 4, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> Yes, it still works like this. But why would you be frequently switching back and forth?


well, i guess it wouldn't be frequently, but still...

maybe the other thing holding me back is re-progamming all my season passes, etc.

then again maybe i should just do it. $200 for the seagate freeagent is very tempting.


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## Sirshagg (Dec 30, 2006)

mganga said:


> $200 for the seagate freeagent is very tempting.


Tell me about it! I can't see any way that I will need it since I effictively doubled my storage space already and I'm STILL very tempted to get one. :lol:


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

iotp said:


> I want my ON-TV back. UHF programming that is.. :lol:


Gee, I had WHT from West Orange on UHF. Wometco Home Theatre, Then they wired me for cable.


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