# Back button when watching DVR



## rochrunner (Dec 2, 2006)

I haven't seen this subject discussed recently, but does anyone know definitively how the Back button works (or is supposed to work!) when watching a recording? The forward button is pretty good at jumping ahead about 30 seconds per press, but the back button is really flaky.

I thought it was supposed to jump back about 8 seconds, which it *sometimes* does, but often it seems repeatedly to go back only a second or two. Then, one more press takes me back several minutes or even starts over from the beginning!

Am I missing something about using this "feature?"


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## [email protected] Network (Jan 6, 2011)

I have seen a couple other people report that pressing the back button a couple times takes them all the way to the beginning of the recording, but this is not normal. When you skip back, it should take you back (roughly) 10 seconds.

Will you please PM your phone number or account number so I can report this problem for you?


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## KevinRS (Oct 9, 2007)

I've had the same issue, skip through the commercials, press skip once too many times, and then back 2 times, and I could be back in the last commercial, or 15 minutes or more back in the show.


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## 4bama (Aug 6, 2006)

The buttons, of course, work differently if you are in a pause mode or if the DVR event is playing...we discovered many versions ago that you need to wait a short amount of time between each skip to allow the DVR to "catch-up"...pressing skip-ahead or skip-back too quickly will result in erratic results.

Try using the skip buttons and wait a second before pressing it again...let the DVR display the first frame of each skip command before pressing skip again...this method works reliably for me and my 622.


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## Orion9 (Jan 31, 2011)

My experience with just the back and skip buttons alone is good. However, if I pause, frame forward or back, use slow motion, then I might get thrown 10 minutes back in time at some point.


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## Schabes (Jan 16, 2012)

I'm having the very same problem. Thanks, guys, for explaining it succinctly and correctly. 

Is there any hope of a near-term fix for this, other than waiting between button presses? 

BTW, this DIDN'T happen a couple of years ago; it seems to be a problem with recent revisions of software.


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## FarmerBob (Nov 28, 2002)

I love reading the Chuck Lorre production end sequences, they're hilarious or quite poignant, or the fine print in some commercials (just to see how ridiculous it is) and to get the page in a position to read it you need to jockey it around frame by frame using Skip < or > in Pause Mode and when done I go back to full play, it jumps back 10-15 minutes every time.


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## Schabes (Jan 16, 2012)

FarmerBob said:


> I love reading the Chuck Lorre production end sequences, they're hilarious or quite poignant, or the fine print in some commercials (just to see how ridiculous it is) and to get the page in a position to read it you need to jockey it around frame by frame using Skip < or > in Pause Mode and when done I go back to full play, it jumps back 10-15 minutes every time.


Yep. This happens to me, too. In addition, while going 1/15 or 1/4 speed forward works fine, I can get jumps when trying to REVERSE in slow-mo.

MattG, or anyone else at Dish, is this a known problem? Is someone working on this, or at least investigating it? 

Thanks.


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## mikant (Apr 7, 2004)

My back button works as it should watching HD, but not when watching recored SD.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Behavior varies for SD vs HD... but also for MPEG2 vs MPEG4 channels, and higher bitrate vs lower bitrate channels. It is apparently "optimized" for a particular set of circumstances, and for the rest of the time it can vary quite a bit.


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## Schabes (Jan 16, 2012)

Matt? Anyone at Dish? Any help here?


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## Kevin Brown (Sep 4, 2005)

mikant said:


> My back button works as it should watching HD, but not when watching recored SD.


Bingo. This is my experience too.

SD mostly works correctly, but sometimes not.


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

mikant said:


> My back button works as it should watching HD, but not when watching recored SD.


Exactly!


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## jkane (Oct 12, 2007)

I have narrowed this problem down to certain channels or shows only. First run shows almost never exhibit the problem. Very old shows like 3rd Rock From the Sun and MASH on TV Land or Reelz are almost guaranteed to skip back to the beginning if the skip back is pressed more than a couple of times in a row.

Dish, use those as examples! And, I am on my 4th 722 in 3 years with this problem.


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## FarmerBob (Nov 28, 2002)

On my second 722 in little over 3 years. And it happens on all channels with any kind of programming.


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## Schabes (Jan 16, 2012)

FarmerBob said:


> And it happens on all channels with any kind of programming.


Ditto for me.


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## John H Jackson (May 2, 2012)

Man oh man...

I wish I had gone looking here a long time ago. Silly me, I tried to work with Dish with nothing to show for it but total frustration.

Starting in mid '11 I tried talking to their tech line about this. I presumed they have some kind of tracking system for bugs and asked to be sure a ticket got opened so they would address this. I did this more than once.

In January, I wrote a letter to Dish mgmt of tech services and got a phone call in reply. They told me to call the tech line (again). (Arrggghhhhh!) I did so.

The guy sez it's gotta be a hardware prob in my 722 (in fact he sed it was a defective hard drive. I sed BS. So I swapped out the 722. And nothing changed. [here's my very surprised face look]

A month ago, I wrote another letter to mgmt. This time they ignored me altogether.

Recently I sent a (rather angry) e-mail. The reply is that they want to send a tech out here. What's he gonna do from here???

What's really irritating is that they keep insisting that it's just me. (I've been sure that wasn't true.) Boy do they have tin ears.

I gather from a quick perusal of this forum that Dish has their hands full with bugs. They certainly demonstrate no interest in or capability to address this.


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## John H Jackson (May 2, 2012)

So this is an old thread that "doesn't need any further discussion."

Really?

I'm a total newbie here who has no idea how to get a problem with the 722 addressed. I took it up with Dish Services (more than once); wrote letters to their management (more than once); and even got a trouble ticket opened on it by them weeks and weeks ago.

How is it that this really old really annoying problem won't get addressed.

Would someone kindly give me a clue?

Thanks.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

John,

Welcome to DBSTalk... I've seen a few posts from you, but none of them actually detail the problem you are having.

What is the exact problem you are having with your receiver? If you post that, you might get more replies.


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## John H Jackson (May 2, 2012)

Thanks for the reply, Stewart.

I thought I'd laid it out, but no matter... worth a try.

The skip button is totally erratic. Here's what's really common:

On pretty much any recorded program on any channel I'll use the skip function forward thru the commercials. When I get to the program, then I have to skip backwards, often 2 - 3 times to get back to where the program restarts (after the ads).

Generally one or two skips backwards are fine but 3 or more and Molly, hold th' door! It goes wildly backwards for many minutes (10, 15, 20, even back to the start!) Just drives us nuts. Happens all the time. I think it's described right here in this thread by others. I've spoken to Tech Services ("Dr Dish") more than once; written to corp mgmt. (They followed up once and then ignored me after that, and that initial follow up was worthless. Told me to talk to "Dr. Dish" and that guy stated that I had a bad harddrive. I told him it didn't seem to fit the symptom, and of course swapping the receiver changed nothing. This problem is many months old and they appear to be completely ignoring it.

(I worked in tech and when we got a trouble report, it stayed active and was pursued to completion! Just what is it with Dish, anyway?)


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I think my earlier posts in this thread is ultimately going to be your only real answer...



Stewart Vernon said:


> Behavior varies for SD vs HD... but also for MPEG2 vs MPEG4 channels, and higher bitrate vs lower bitrate channels. It is apparently "optimized" for a particular set of circumstances, and for the rest of the time it can vary quite a bit.


Some channels it works flawlessly, others not so much. I have more issues with OTA, for example. I think part of this also stems from changes Dish had to make as a result of the Tivo lawsuit... so they lost the ability to do some of this better since Tivo kept winning in court.


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## Kevin Brown (Sep 4, 2005)

John- Have they offered to give you a new DVR? I only really have issues with SD channels, but even then, it doesn't sound nearly as bad as you. Maybe there's some problem with your receiver?


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## John H Jackson (May 2, 2012)

Stewart Vernon said:


> I think my earlier posts in this thread is ultimately going to be your only real answer...
> 
> Some channels it works flawlessly, others not so much. I have more issues with OTA, for example. I think part of this also stems from changes Dish had to make as a result of the Tivo lawsuit... so they lost the ability to do some of this better since Tivo kept winning in court.


I can't relate to any of this. I find no difference from channel to channel (nor from HD vs. non HD; lots of problems with HD programs) and I don't do OTA.



Kevin Brown said:


> John- Have they offered to give you a new DVR? I only really have issues with SD channels, but even then, it doesn't sound nearly as bad as you. Maybe there's some problem with your receiver?


That's what Dr.Dish said, tho I disagreed that it seemed likely. But to move forward with the matter, I swapped out the receiver. Absolutely no change. This is a significant problem, presumably with their software, that has been around for at least a year (that I've been trying to get their attention on) and is obviously not localized to one user.


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## Kevin Brown (Sep 4, 2005)

^^^

That's weird. Maybe the problem is there, and we're just watching different channels ...


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## MadScientist (Dec 1, 2004)

I get this also! this happens to me most of the times!


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## John H Jackson (May 2, 2012)

Kevin Brown said:


> ^^^
> 
> That's weird. Maybe the problem is there, and we're just watching different channels ...


I can't really imagine why a problem like this would be a function of which channel had been recorded (and it is absolutely not my experience that it's different from channel to channel).

When I showed up here awhile back, it seemed like there were some Dish techies aboard that participated in the discussion and presumably could help facilitate problem resolution. What happened? Did they all crawl under a rock? Is Dish collapsing under a mountain of unresolved probems and unrelaible system changes?

Seems like it the absence of said techies, the main purpose served by this forum is to scratch our collective heads and wonder why features that should function consistently and predictably don't.

Am I missing something here?


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## Ray [email protected] Network (Dec 28, 2010)

I am still providing feedback and technical assistance with our equipment to the participants on this site. If I don't have the answer, I have the resources to find the answer. If you have any questions or concerns, please let me know. Thanks.



John H Jackson said:


> I can't really imagine why a problem like this would be a function of which channel had been recorded (and it is absolutely not my experience that it's different from channel to channel).
> 
> When I showed up here awhile back, it seemed like there were some Dish techies aboard that participated in the discussion and presumably could help facilitate problem resolution. What happened? Did they all crawl under a rock? Is Dish collapsing under a mountain of unresolved probems and unrelaible system changes?
> 
> ...


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## John H Jackson (May 2, 2012)

Ray [email protected] Network said:


> I am still providing feedback and technical assistance with our equipment to the participants on this site. If I don't have the answer, I have the resources to find the answer. If you have any questions or concerns, please let me know. Thanks.


Yea team!

Thanks for checking in, Ray. I've sent you a PM.

I have considerable I.T. background myself, not directly relevant but I believe I have a pretty good general concept of what's involved here.

The program material is written to disk. Then, the material is read sequentially from disk with the ability to navigate including skips. And the intent is to skip by some determined interval forward and backwards through the material. And the problem is that during this action it totally loses its place.

I'm thinking that maybe one distinguishing characteristic is that I'm watching cable networks with very long commercial breaks. So I'm skipping forward a bunch of times in rapid succession. Then I have to immediately skip back perhaps 3 times. At at this point, all to often (perhaps on the third backwards skip) it just goes flyin off into the deep.


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## 4bama (Aug 6, 2006)

John H Jackson said:


> And the problem is that during this action it totally loses its place.
> 
> I'm thinking that maybe one distinguishing characteristic is that I'm watching cable networks with very long commercial breaks. So I'm skipping forward a bunch of times in rapid succession. Then I have to immediately skip back perhaps 3 times. At at this point, all to often (perhaps on the third backwards skip) it just goes flyin off into the deep.


We discussed this very same subject over a year ago...one thing was noted that really made a big difference, and it requires the customer to be a little more patient.

Doing multiple skips, forward or reverse, if a slight pause is made between each skip (just enough for the DVR to display one frame after the skip) then the over-skip/under-skip problem is all but eliminated..

Very rapid skips seems to cause the DVR to lose its place in time and unpredictable skips sometimes result..

Try using a short pause between pressing the skip button(s) and see if that improves your results.


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## John H Jackson (May 2, 2012)

4bama said:


> We discussed this very same subject over a year ago...one thing was noted that really made a big difference, and it requires the customer to be a little more patient.
> 
> Doing multiple skips, forward or reverse, if a slight pause is made between each skip (just enough for the DVR to display one frame after the skip) then the over-skip/under-skip problem is all but eliminated..
> 
> ...


I *could* try to deny that my wife and I are a bit Type-A. <g>

But seriously this has simply not been the case. We've put up with (well, it overstates the case to say we put up with it; we have not choice) but have most certainly tried to be very slow and methodical and it simply has a mind of its own. (I'd thought maybe just maybe if it saw each skip as a distinct action, but NO!)


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## John H Jackson (May 2, 2012)

Oh yeah. And I'm pretty sure it's waayyy worse on Rec 2 (tho Rec 1 is not exempt).


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## John H Jackson (May 2, 2012)

Ray [email protected] Network said:


> I am still providing feedback and technical assistance with our equipment to the participants on this site. If I don't have the answer, I have the resources to find the answer. If you have any questions or concerns, please let me know. Thanks.


Earth to Ray. This is a (serious) problem. A very old problem. I have tried every way I know to get some attention to it. You stuck your head up.

And...

yet...

WHAT???

It is not insignificant. It is not recent. How and when will it be addressed? When will I ever hear another peep from Dish about it.

_What_ is going on (other than nothing)?


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

_Moderator note... You're not accomplishing anything by bringing anger and simulated cursing to the thread. Some cleanup has been performed. Please be courteous to others._


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## windskisong (Aug 2, 2013)

Ray [email protected] Network said:


> I am still providing feedback and technical assistance with our equipment to the participants on this site. If I don't have the answer, I have the resources to find the answer. If you have any questions or concerns, please let me know. Thanks.


Ray, this is still an ongoing issue. Our next door neighbors switched to DirectTV because they were so frustrated with this. We have found that doing the "Reprogam your remote" approach - push 'Menu' twice, then the 'SAT' button, then the 'RECORD' button - seems to help for about a week, when the remote will go back to skip forward goes about 30 seconds, skip back goes about 10 seconds, then this problem comes back.
What's even weirder is when this happens if we try to fast forward or fast rewind, they will seem like they're working until you hit play to drop to normal play, and suddenly you're nowhere near where you thought you were. E.G. you're watching a game show and fast forwarding to the last 5 minutes to see who won, you get there, hit play, and you're watching the commercial after where you started from (10 minutes from the beginning).
The issue seems to come up randomly, but once it starts happening, a cold reboot or a reprogram your remote are the only things that MIGHT fix it.
I asked if the Hopper had a similar problem, and the Dish Customer No-Service didn't know the 722k had this problem.


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## windskisong (Aug 2, 2013)

jkane said:


> I have narrowed this problem down to certain channels or shows only. First run shows almost never exhibit the problem. Very old shows like 3rd Rock From the Sun and MASH on TV Land or Reelz are almost guaranteed to skip back to the beginning if the skip back is pressed more than a couple of times in a row.
> 
> Dish, use those as examples! And, I am on my 4th 722 in 3 years with this problem.


I've tried, and Dish refused to help with this problem. They did offer to upgrade me to the Hopper for the normal fee plus an adder for doing it early. Wasn't that sweet?


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

Jumping backward with digital TV framing is naturally a hit or miss occurrence.

Your digital TV/satellite receiver "creates" 30 full frames per second out of the digital signal that it receives.

Each of those frames is "built" from data from a variable number of previous frames - only pixels on the screen that have changed are updated in the new frame.

A digital TV picture consists of several different types of frames.

Occasionally a complete frame is sent, I believe they call these an "I" frame.

Between "I" frames will be frames that are pieces of the previous "I" frame, that only contain pixels that have changed since the last "I" frame.

You can readily see how if it is a relatively long time between "I" frames, it causes a problem for jumping backward since that jump MUST be to a previous "I" frame to get a complete screen shot - how many "I" frames back does the DVR jump, if you set a static number in programming, then you run the risk if jumping randomly backward (the problem Dish receivers have) and if you some how use a time base backward jump it exponentially complicates the calculations the DVR must make to hit the approximate time target.

I believe TiVo has the patent on the best way to run digital fast forward and rewind and even though Dish and TiVo have kissed and made up, Dish is not using the TiVo method for FF and REW, they may not be allowed to by their agreement with TiVo - I don't know.

Rewind on a digital TV picture is an extremely complicated process, not just as simple as it once was with a VCR where it just read the analog data backwards and displayed enough of it to almost make an intelligible screen - digital moving pictures are layers and layers of what changed, what did not and what's the median between the two.


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