# No more windows for French police



## turey22 (Jul 30, 2007)

http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/03/french-police-saves-millions-of-euros-by-adopting-ubuntu.ars



> "Moving from Microsoft XP to Vista would not have brought us many advantages and Microsoft said it would require training of users," said Lt. Col. Guimard. "Moving from XP to Ubuntu, however, proved very easy. The two biggest differences are the icons and the games. Games are not our priority."


Funny that the Lt. Col. Commented on the games.


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

It's very possible that an organization that mainly runs 3-4 applications could switch OSs without difficultly, provided those apps run on the OS.

It's also likely that going to Vista would have been just as easy. Microsoft always recommends training, because they have no way to evaluate the specific needs an organization might have. The fact that they needed to ask Microsoft, rather than their own IT folks, indicates that they don't know a lot about the technologies and how they use them.


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## Grentz (Jan 10, 2007)

IIP said:


> It's very possible that an organization that mainly runs 3-4 applications could switch OSs without difficultly, provided those apps run on the OS.
> 
> It's also likely that going to Vista would have been just as easy. Microsoft always recommends training, because they have no way to evaluate the specific needs an organization might have. The fact that they needed to ask Microsoft, rather than their own IT folks, indicates that they don't know a lot about the technologies and how they use them.


100% agree.

On a side note...I have no idea how Ubuntu can be claimed to be more like XP layout than Vista? That is just false. Especially when you get down into how to access and do many things. Ubuntu is a new can of worms, even if it is somewhat similar to windows. Vista is just an extension on many of the ideas and ways of doing things in XP.


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## bobnielsen (Jun 29, 2006)

Grentz said:


> On a side note...I have no idea how Ubuntu can be claimed to be more like XP layout than Vista? That is just false. Especially when you get down into how to access and do many things. Ubuntu is a new can of worms, even if it is somewhat similar to windows. Vista is just an extension on many of the ideas and ways of doing things in XP.


Being a user of all three, I agree completely. For many tasks, Vista isn't that much different from XP. Ubuntu (or any other Linux OS) is a different thing altogether, although the Ubuntu GUI has become slightly more Windows-like with recent versions.


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## turey22 (Jul 30, 2007)

I am goping to download that Ubuntu...Does it use the file ext3?


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## Grentz (Jan 10, 2007)

It can, you can use quite a few different file systems actually.

ext2 and ext3 are probably the most commonly used though.


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## Art7220 (Feb 4, 2004)

Can it use Fat32 also?


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## Grentz (Jan 10, 2007)

Yes, I believe it is, but not recommended. Most use ext3 these days.

There are tools to mount ext file systems on windows as well.


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## turey22 (Jul 30, 2007)

Grentz said:


> Yes, I believe it is, but not recommended. Most use ext3 these days.
> 
> There are tools to mount ext file systems on windows as well.


But I thought Linux wouldnt use the Fat32??? I guess I might be wrong.


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## Grentz (Jan 10, 2007)

turey22 said:


> But I thought Linux wouldnt use the Fat32??? I guess I might be wrong.


Linux cant use NTFS very well, it can use FAT formats though.


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## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

I do not know their software configuration. However, having said that....

First, OpenOffice is very capable for most everyday needs for wood processing and spreadsheets.

Secondly, what if they developed their applications to go through a Web interface. Gee, Firefox works fairly the same in Windows, Mac, and Linux. You just eliminated the need for a application setup on that machine. Need a report? I can point you to routines that can generate PDFs, RTFs, and Excel Spreadsheets.

Funny how the Personal computer was meant to get away from the centralized computer, yet everything is becoming centralized again.


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## itguy05 (Oct 24, 2007)

Mark Holtz said:


> Funny how the Personal computer was meant to get away from the centralized computer, yet everything is becoming centralized again.


Circle of life.... And I can't wait for the day that Microsoft goes away.... For those that say it will never happen think about this. In the 60's if you would have thought GM or Chrysler would be on the brink of bankruptcy people would have told you that you were crazy....


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## djlong (Jul 8, 2002)

Except that all you had to do to knock down GM was invent a better car. You didn't have to deal with "Why, yes Mr. Toyota, I like your model, but is it compatible with my old seats that I use every day?"


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## itguy05 (Oct 24, 2007)

That would be for those in business. But I read an article the other day on ZDnet that businesses are expanding their use of Linux. Another article said that something like 75-80% of companies surveyed are looking to increase Mac deployment. The tides are turning, albeit slowly.

Having been in this industry for a long while I've seen us go from Novell to Microsoft, Word Perfect to Word, 123 to Excel, Harvard Graphics to Powerpoint, etc. Mass changes do happen - they just happen slowly.

And in the past 6 months, I've seen 4 people who were previously die hard Windows users go Mac. Those people previously had no interest in Apple stuff but got tired of MS and Windows. 

In Browser share, MS is declining, in OS share, MS is declining, etc. It's nothing huge but the fact it's declining after years of increases and/or stagnation is a good thing for us all.


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## djlong (Jul 8, 2002)

I think you'll agree with me that, in order to ditch the 'existing paradigm', there has to be a new "killer app" that makes people want to embrace the 'new' more than they cling to the 'old'.

If "the cloud" ever REALLY takes off - and 30 years in this business has yet to convince me that centralized computing is 'the answer' - THEN you might have a chance at knocking MS off it's perch because all you'd need is a browser that supports whatever Google and Amazon are putting out.

I think MS is in more danger overseas because of regulatory concerns - and not the ones you're thinking of. In order for 'the cloud' to take hold here, you have to basically make available a fiber-quality link to just about every house in the country. And you then have to worry about downtime, service reliability, etc.

I'm not saying it can't be done - I'm saying there are a lot of things that have to happen in order for it to be more than a pipe dream.


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## itguy05 (Oct 24, 2007)

djlong said:


> I think you'll agree with me that, in order to ditch the 'existing paradigm', there has to be a new "killer app" that makes people want to embrace the 'new' more than they cling to the 'old'.


I'd agree with you but the last time we went through the change, the MS solutions were inferior to what we had.

Novell had the reputation of being able to set the server up and forget about it. There are many stories of people forgetting their Novell servers and finding them years later when the power went out and the UPS failed. You never hear about that from Windows shops.

Active Directory still is missing features of NDS from 1999-2000.

Word, Excel, and Powerpoint are still missing features of their old counterparts. Heck, Word still can't match WordPerfect in many areas. In others, it's vastly inferior to Ami Pro, a word processor I used in 1994....

I won't even touch what a POS Exchange is. Luckily it only accounts for about 40% of the Enterprise Market. Notes make sup the other 40% and "Other" makes up the last 20%.

MS has some great marketing muscle (and Mafia-esque tactics that were proven in a court of law). You walk into a MS dog and pony show and they promise you the world. Yet when you implement it, it often goes over budget and under performs. But you've spent so much $$ you have to continue.

I think the economy is going to be the biggest driver. From what I'm reading, companies are looking to get away from MS because of cost. The TCO of MS solutions are always higher. The only ones that say different are MS commissioned studies. Those that have implemented Mac or Linux solutions have lower TCO.

Think about it - I have the choice of MS's upgrade to Office 2007, retrain my users as it's a UI debacle and very un-intuitive. Or I can use Open Office 3.0, which is free, looks like their current office suite, and reads/writes their old files. In tough times, I'm going to look at OO 3.0 and tell MS to F-off.

For servers, I can pay MS for Windows 2008, CAL's and such. Or I can load up Red Hat EL 5, have similar functionality and no CAL's. Or I can look at an OS X server - same deal.

My guess is the deal of IBM buying Sun is also to gain Solaris - it runs decent on the desktop, has support, and is best poised to take on MS. If IBM were to get a true Windows competitor again and market it (no more OS/2 BS- they missed that boat and could have *KILLED* MS if they wern't so arrogant) they could really offer MS a run for its money.

More diversity is a good thing - I think companies are finally getting tired of beilg held hostage to MS.


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## djlong (Jul 8, 2002)

The 'killer app' back then was the single-vendor promise of an end to rampant finger pointing when Machine A didn't play nice with Server B.

Except for Excel, Office didn't have the best individual app in it's suite, but it DID have features that worked very well together. I mean, as an example, Powerpoint wasn't as good (I'm told) as Harvard Graphics - but Powerpoint imported Excel's charts much easier and updated them when you changed the data in Excel. Something that had long been promised (anyone remember the most famous vaporware ever - the Popular Computing front cover that advertised the forthcoming 'Ovation'?) but never delivered.

Never underestimate the appeal of having ONE phone number to call for support as opposed to a list.


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## Grentz (Jan 10, 2007)

Microsoft is not as bad as people make it out to be in all honesty these days, and remember that a lot has changed since the 80s and 90s. Heck a lot has changed in the last 5 yrs. Many of the old solid structures of the past are not nearly what they once were (ex. Novell). Most of the comments brought up are from back 5-10+ years ago which is not today. Microsofts software is actually some of the cheapest to implement if you have ever tried to dabble in Novell, Wyse, etc. I can tell you are on the simpler side of things if you think Open Office can do everything Office can and other comments you made (ex. Re:Exchange that really does not have a good rival at this point that can do everything it can). You also are looking at individual rivals to apps and not apps that work well together (that is a big plus of most of the microsoft suites). Word Perfect for example is HORRIBLE in any large environment that is doing anything but just word processing, if you dont believe me that is great but I have done tons of migrations from Word Perfect/Lotus Notes setups over to Office setups and it is so much better as the client even says. Yes, for some it is plenty, but for many others it is not. Dont say something should die just because you do not need what it provides.

For end users, that would leave really OSX only. I know many people who still cannot figure out how to install .exe or .dng files, I cannot imagine them trying to install drivers and such on most linux distros!

It is much more than just Windows, and to say that it should be gone is not a very good view. You also have to remember that Microsoft programs (as in training/information/funding/etc., not software) help many get into the industry and support many startups trying to make it. I know a lot of software companies under Microsoft programs that without them, would not be able to survive.

Quit living in the past and look at today. Software from 10-20-30yrs ago is really irrelevant at this point as it does not do what many larger companies need and want today.


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## itguy05 (Oct 24, 2007)

Grentz said:


> Microsoft is not as bad as people make it out to be in all honesty these days, and remember that a lot has changed since the 80s and 90s. Heck a lot has changed in the last 5 yrs. Many of the old solid structures of the past are not nearly what they once were (ex. Novell). Most of the comments brought up are from back 5-10+ years ago which is not today. Microsofts software is actually some of the cheapest to implement if you have ever tried to dabble in Novell, Wyse, etc.


Actually it's not if you look at the TCO. Sure, the MS Stuff is cheaper to implement at first, but then when things go wrong the savings evaporate quickly. And the ongoing costs are often higher. I suggest you take a step back and look at TCO as a holistic approach, from asset acquisition to disposal with EVERYTHING needed to make it work.



> I can tell you are on the simpler side of things if you think Open Office can do everything Office can and other comments you made


I know it can, I lived with it only for 2 years in a corporate setting. So I know OO is up to the task.



> (ex. Re:Exchange that really does not have a good rival at this point that can do everything it can).


Hint: Look across the country to IBM and see what Lotus Domino can do. Light years ahead of Exchange. Has been for years. It can practically run your business for you as it integrates across platforms and applications. Something Exchange cannot do. And it can typically run more users per server, saving you TCO.



> You also are looking at individual rivals to apps and not apps that work well together (that is a big plus of most of the microsoft suites). Word Perfect for example is HORRIBLE in any large environment that is doing anything but just word processing, if you dont believe me that is great but I have done tons of migrations from Word Perfect/Lotus Notes setups over to Office setups and it is so much better as the client even says. Yes, for some it is plenty, but for many others it is not. Dont say something should die just because you do not need what it provides.


Don't know too much about WP any more other than it has a large following in the Legal profession as Word still has not caught up to it.



> For end users, that would leave really OSX only.


That's not necessarily a bad thing although I'd like to see Linux gain on the desktop as well.



> You also have to remember that Microsoft programs (as in training/information/funding/etc., not software) help many get into the industry and support many startups trying to make it. I know a lot of software companies under Microsoft programs that without them, would not be able to survive.


Waah, waah. You spent too much time buying into the "People Ready" Bs. You can say the same things about Mac systems, Linux boxes, etc. There are many start ups that run on non-Windows platforms. There are grants and programs from all the vendors, not just MS that help startups with technology and training. That's a weak argument.

I've seen the "quality" of MCSE's and MS partners. Few live up to the hype. Actually, I'd bet my non-MCSE real world knowledge over an MCSE any day.



> Quit living in the past and look at today. Software from 10-20-30yrs ago is really irrelevant at this point as it does not do what many larger companies need and want today.


I think you should - the world is slowly moving away from MS. That's a good thing.


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## Grentz (Jan 10, 2007)

Its just coming from different sides of opinion.

Many come from the Open Source/Other solutions side, and many come from the Microsoft side. They both tend to not like each other as well. Personally I like a mix and think that Microsoft has its pros and the others have their pros. We had a mix at my offices for many years and it worked great. Microsoft did as it was supposed to and the others did as they were. 

You are clearly on one side, so there is no reason to even discuss with you rationally. I could pick apart your comments as you did to mine, I just dont want to get into an argument over it.


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## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

I know companies who live and die by Microsoft Outlook.

I also know of people who swear at Lotus Notes. 

Given the choice between Notes and Outlook, I'll take Outlook.


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