# HR20-100 vs. HR20-700



## atlbr007 (Apr 25, 2007)

I have an HR20-700 and HR20-100 in my possession right now and I have to decide which to keep. They both have their own issues, but I'm curious which one I should keep and which one I should send back. I'm leaning toward keeping the 700, but after the latest software upgrade to the 100, I'm wondering if I should keep it.

Thoughts?


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## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

atlbr007 said:


> I have an HR20-700 and HR20-100 in my possession right now and I have to decide which to keep. They both have their own issues, but I'm curious which one I should keep and which one I should send back. I'm leaning toward keeping the 700, but after the latest software upgrade to the 100, I'm wondering if I should keep it.
> 
> Thoughts?


Are they both activated and hooked up? I would keep the one that seems to run more reliably. Unfortunately, I don't think there is enough data yet to determine with any accuracy which box is better. They have the same features, same software, same processor, etc.

Got a coin?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

The only differences I have seen so far:

-100 has Call-Waiting Caller-ID support
-700 has the internal RF antenna (while the -100 has external)

Other then that, they are functionally the same now (After the 0x146 update)


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## shmengie (Apr 12, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Other then that, they are functionally the same now (After the 0x146 update)


slightly OT: don't you think d* is just asking for trouble having two nearly identical boxes which now behave nearly identically with the 700 at 0x145 and the 100 at 0x146? seems like the risk of confusion is immense. (my first thought was, 'wait a sec, why didn't i get the 0x146 push?').


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## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

shmengie said:


> slightly OT: don't you think d* is just asking for trouble having two nearly identical boxes which now behave nearly identically with the 700 at 0x145 and the 100 at 0x146? seems like the risk of confusion is immense. (my first thought was, 'wait a sec, why didn't i get the 0x146 push?').


They have multiple manufacturers for many of their boxes. I am sure that they also run slightly different software versions as well. D* can't put all of their eggs in one basket, hence the need for a second manufacturer. I am sure the boxes require *slightly* different software, so they need to differentiate them somehow. You also need to remember that 99% of the HR-20 owners out there don't even realize that the software ever gets updated. And those that do, are here and know what's going on.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

From talking [yes on the phone] to Sony engineering over my Sony HD receiver, D* gives the manufacturer the software [basic] and the manufacturer then uses their resources to design the receivers. The "what & how" the box does what is needed is completely up to the manufacturer, which is why there ends up being slight software variations for each manufacturer. They're built to a cost & function target. Each manufacturer has "their idea" of the best way they can achieve this. FWIW


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

As hilmark2k said... this isn't a "new" practice... there are three different R15's (-100, -300, -500) all have different software packages, and versions.

The H20... two different (-100, -600) and uptill the latest CE's they had different software numbers... with the latest CE's they are standardizing on the same software version number (even though the software is different)

D10 and D11 also follow the same model.

Sure it is a PITA... mostly for us here in forum land, that have to "question" what exact model that person we are trying to help has.

Ultimately... they will probably get the version number in sync with the HR20's and R15's ... as yes.. .it would make things a LOT easier for people out there.


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## CousCous (Sep 17, 2006)

I hope they do fix the numbering. As it stands now the only thing I can compare it with would be every PC model running a different version of Windows.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

CousCous said:


> I hope they do fix the numbering. As it stands now the only thing I can compare it with would be every PC model running a different version of Windows.


However, in that example: The Core OS may be the same version..
But the drivers it relies on (to talk to the hardware) are all different...

With the HR20... Drivers/OS are all in one package, not multiple pieces.


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## Kapeman (Dec 22, 2003)

Earl Bonovich said:


> The only differences I have seen so far:
> 
> -100 has Call-Waiting Caller-ID support


Would you care to elaborate on that?

Thanks!


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Kapeman said:


> Would you care to elaborate on that?
> 
> Thanks!


Sure: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=86263


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## bobnielsen (Jun 29, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> However, in that example: The Core OS may be the same version..
> But the drivers it relies on (to talk to the hardware) are all different...
> 
> With the HR20... Drivers/OS are all in one package, not multiple pieces.


Yeah--it could probably be done using modular drivers (which Linux has supported for quite a while) but that would make the OS considerably larger.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> The only differences I have seen so far:
> 
> -100 has Call-Waiting Caller-ID support
> -700 has the internal RF antenna (while the -100 has external)
> ...


And the -100 doesn't have the pesky tamper sticker on the back. 

Just got a HR20-100 myself. Not sure I like what they've done with the lights on the front. They look just like the R15 did, frosted. And they've made the record light really small now too.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

RunnerFL said:


> Just got a HR20-100 myself. Not sure I like what they've done with the lights on the front. They look just like the R15 did, frosted. And they've made the record light really small now too.


I didn't notice the record light being any smaller...
But i LOVE the forsted look, at least on the Black model... not sure how I would like it on the Silver.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I didn't notice the record light being any smaller...
> But i LOVE the forsted look, at least on the Black model... not sure how I would like it on the Silver.


Yeah the record light is now pretty much a pinhole. The record light on the -100 I just got is 1/16" whereas on my -700's it's 3/16". The power light is also smaller on the -100 [1/8"] than on the -700 [3/16"].

The IR eye on the -100 is considerably smaller also.

The frosted on the silver [wasn't lucky enough to get black] looks, well, like the R15. I much prefer the individual LED look of the -700.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

RunnerFL said:


> Yeah the record light is now pretty much a pinhole. The record light on the -100 I just got is 1/16" whereas on my -700's it's 3/16". The power light is also smaller on the -100 [1/8"] than on the -700 [3/16"].
> 
> The IR eye on the -100 is considerably smaller also.
> 
> The frosted on the silver [wasn't lucky enough to get black] looks, well, like the R15. I much prefer the individual LED look of the -700.


Hmm... maybe the face plate on the -100b is just that much different as well.
As when both are recording (my -700 and -100, that sit on top of one another)... I don't notice a difference in size of the LED's of either the record or the power.

I definently get the same type of reception via IR on both of them.


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## quarrymen1 (Dec 14, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> The only differences I have seen so far:
> 
> -100 has Call-Waiting Caller-ID support
> -700 has the internal RF antenna (while the -100 has external)
> ...


yeah provided cid works at all...


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Hmm... maybe the face plate on the -100b is just that much different as well.
> As when both are recording (my -700 and -100, that sit on top of one another)... I don't notice a difference in size of the LED's of either the record or the power.
> 
> I definently get the same type of reception via IR on both of them.


I'm also noticing, now that I've recorded on the -100, that the record LED on the -100 is clearly more orange than on the -700. The -700 is closer to yellow.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

RunnerFL said:


> I'm also noticing, now that I've recorded on the -100, that the record LED on the -100 is clearly more orange than on the -700. The -700 is closer to yellow.


Voltage across the LED. 
Then there is the red light verses shades of orange on the -700.


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## BrettStah (Feb 7, 2003)

Differences between the -700 and -100:

1) Internal thermometer shows cooler temps on the -100
2) The -100 has a 3-prong power plug, while the -700 has a 2-prong (no ground), (thus the power cords are not interchangeable, and presumably the -100 models are a little better protected in some cases at least).
3) The blue circle on the -700 is made up of more discrete blue dots; the -100's circle looks more like a continuous circle (I shut the lights off completely anyway, but noticed it when it first booted up).
4) My -100 actually works, unlike my faulty -700.


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## Duffinator (Oct 25, 2006)

I just got back from Costco and they have HR20-700's made in Mexico for $269. I was going to purchase a HR20-100, preferably in black, as that's what I have in my bedroom. The new HR20 will replace my HR10 in my HT. I'm of the impression that the HR20-100 might be marginally better. Price is not an issue but I like the convenience of picking up a receiver locally. Do I pick up the HR20-700 locally or order a HR20-100 off the internet?

Also, are the feet any nicer on the 700 vs. the 100? Mine will be displayed at eye level and the feet are quite visible.


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## brittonx (Dec 26, 2006)

Has anyone run both side-by-side using the same OTA antenna feed to determine if there is any difference in the OTA tuner performance? 

I'm looking for results from someone who had/has an HR20-700 that is not getting good OTA reception with the -700 and is getting much better OTA reception with other ATSC equipment. 

Thanks!


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## Radio Enginerd (Oct 5, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> \-100 has Call-Waiting Caller-ID support


I may be off my rocker but I could swear my -700 did this at one point. Not sure it does it anymore now that I think about it.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

brittonx said:


> Has anyone run both side-by-side using the same OTA antenna feed to determine if there is any difference in the OTA tuner performance?
> 
> I'm looking for results from someone who had/has an HR20-700 that is not getting good OTA reception with the -700 and is getting much better OTA reception with other ATSC equipment.
> 
> Thanks!


The HR-20-700 has the third gen ATSC tuner chip. It is not as good as the fifth gen ATSC tuner chip.
The H20-600 uses the fifth gen ATSC tuner chip. [I have several other fifth gen ATSC tuners along with a few third gen tuners].
The fifth gen is more sensitive to low signals & has better multi-path rejection.


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## Duffinator (Oct 25, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> The HR-20-700 has the third gen ATSC tuner chip. It is not as good as the fifth gen ATSC tuner chip.
> The H20-600 uses the fifth gen ATSC tuner chip. [I have several other fifth gen ATSC tuners along with a few third gen tuners].
> The fifth gen is more sensitive to low signals & has better multi-path rejection.


Do the 100 and 700 use the same chip? What chip was in the HR10? Is the HR20's OTA reception really better than the HR10?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Duffinator said:


> Do the 100 and 700 use the same chip? What chip was in the HR10? Is the HR20's OTA reception really better than the HR10?


"I think" the -100 uses the same chip as the -700.
I don't have a -100 to test and haven't had a HR10 [but would guess it uses the same, 3rd gen, as my Sony SATHD-300].
The fifth gen was "new" about a year ago. LG used it in the H20-600 they made for D*.
I bought a [5th gen LG chip] PC HD tuner card at that time. My Sony TV seems to use the same.


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## brittonx (Dec 26, 2006)

Is there a way someone can identify which "gen" tuners are in the -100?

Also: I'd be interested to know what the cost difference is between the different tuner versions. OTA is important enough to me that I would gladly pay a reasonable premium to get quality OTA tuners instead of the finicky garbage in the HR20-700.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

brittonx said:


> Is there a way someone can identify which "gen" tuners are in the -100?


Visual inspection won't be possible as the tuner is encased, so to "see it" would be destructive analysis.
If I had one, I could do comparative analysis though.


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## brittonx (Dec 26, 2006)

Another irritating thing for me is I still have my old Toshiba DST3000 from 7 years ago. It was one of the first HD D* receivers. It's OTA tuner works as well if not better than the 5th Gen H20 tuners. There should be no excuse for the poor tuners in the HR20.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

brittonx said:


> Another irritating thing for me is I still have my old Toshiba DST3000 from 7 years ago. It was one of the first HD D* receivers. It's OTA tuner works as well if not better than the 5th Gen H20 tuners. There should be no excuse for the poor tuners in the HR20.


I find this a bit hard to believe. 
Are you sure you're not comparing a H20-100 to your DST3000 ? [which I can believe]


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## ChrisMinCT (Dec 7, 2006)

Duffinator said:


> I just got back from Costco and they have HR20-700's made in Mexico for $269. I was going to purchase a HR20-100, preferably in black, as that's what I have in my bedroom. The new HR20 will replace my HR10 in my HT. I'm of the impression that the HR20-100 might be marginally better. Price is not an issue but I like the convenience of picking up a receiver locally. Do I pick up the HR20-700 locally or order a HR20-100 off the internet?
> 
> Also, are the feet any nicer on the 700 vs. the 100? Mine will be displayed at eye level and the feet are quite visible.


Where are you finding 100s on the Internet? Not seeing that and I may have to buy one soon if I decide to stay with D*. I sent back my 5th 700 yesterday, but as of now, they are not sending me a replacement.


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## Duffinator (Oct 25, 2006)

ChrisMinCT said:


> Where are you finding 100s on the Internet? Not seeing that and I may have to buy one soon if I decide to stay with D*. I sent back my 5th 700 yesterday, but as of now, they are not sending me a replacement.


Chris, try solidsignal.com and call and ask to speak with the DTV buyer. I can't remember her name but she is very helpful. I think it's hit and miss whether you get a 100 or 700. I'm going to visit my local sat retailer this afternoon and will report back what they have in stock.


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## ChrisMinCT (Dec 7, 2006)

Duffinator said:


> Chris, try solidsignal.com and call and ask to speak with the DTV buyer. I can't remember her name but she is very helpful. I think it's hit and miss whether you get a 100 or 700. I'm going to visit my local sat retailer this afternoon and will report back what they have in stock.


Thanks!


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## wjHunter (Apr 25, 2007)

I just got a HR20-700 (China) from Best Buy last night. 
Got the last one thay had...


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## Duffinator (Oct 25, 2006)

wjHunter said:


> I just got a HR20-700 (China) from Best Buy last night.
> Got the last one thay had...


Did I read somewhere that the receivers made in Mexico were preferred over the Chinese made ones? What was the issue, the RF?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Duffinator said:


> Did I read somewhere that the receivers made in Mexico were preferred over the Chinese made ones? What was the issue, the RF?


"Some" -700s made in China have shown not to work with the remote set to RF mode. I think there was [is] a problem where the internal antenna wasn't connected.


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## armophob (Nov 13, 2006)

The cooling features of the 100 over the 700 would be a hands down the deciding factor for me.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

armophob said:


> The cooling features of the 100 over the 700 would be a hands down the deciding factor for me.


Is the 30 degree F really that much of a difference? I've got a Pentium that Intel controls at 68 degrees C. All of the fans in the world don't seem to lower it when it's doing "work".
Yes, cooler is better, but how much?


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

armophob said:


> The cooling features of the 100 over the 700 would be a hands down the deciding factor for me.


I'm not noticing a huge difference in temp between my 700's and my 100, only a few degrees.

I also don't think the higher temp on the 700 is affecting it's functionality.

I'm going to say the 700's are still my choice for 2 reasons. 1. The RF antenna on the 100 looks extremely ugly sticking up in the back and 2. I really dislike what they've done with the LED's on the front panel.

Functionality wise they are identical with the exception of the Call Waiting CID, but I could care less about that. If I'm on the phone the TV is paused and I'm not paying attention anyways. Besides if I'm on the phone and a call comes in I pull the phone away from my ear and see who's calling in on the other line.

I have not yet compared OTA on the 100 to the 700's. I'll do that this weekend.


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## Duffinator (Oct 25, 2006)

Duffinator said:


> I'm going to visit my local sat retailer this afternoon and will report back what they have in stock.


ADCO only has HR20-700's in stock.


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## ChrisMinCT (Dec 7, 2006)

RunnerFL said:


> I'm not noticing a huge difference in temp between my 700's and my 100, only a few degrees.
> 
> I also don't think the higher temp on the 700 is affecting it's functionality.
> 
> ...


My only hope now is the 100. I've sent back 4 700s inside of 5 months. I've lost count of the number of shows I've missed and the number of times I had to just turn off the TV because the audio dropouts were so unbelievably annoying. If the 100 isn't going to do better, then its off to court I go to get out of this contract and get most of my money back. I am willing to go the pretty far in fixing this, but based on my experience with D* this past week, they don't want to work with me at all on this. They clearly expressed their preferral to send out a recovery kit for my one working HR20 and kiss me off after 10 years of loyalty - without refunding me a dime. Pathetic if you asked me.

And they can't be functionally identical, else they'd be running the same firmware. There has to be enough hardware differences to require seperate firmware.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

ChrisMinCT said:


> And they can't be functionally identical, else they'd be running the same firmware. There has to be enough hardware differences to require separate firmware.


I guess this would be your definition of "functional". The "how" they get to function might be different, but the end results are the same. Yes there are some design differences between the two, but the "output" functions the same.

Back to your -700 problems, I have had several [and "twins" right now] that show no design flaws. While there have been manufacturing problems with individual units, a lot of times the issues then turn out to be more system related. I've followed some of your postings, and agree that you have a "bad box". Some "refurbs" have been nothing more than "recycled" bad units sent back to customers to retest, and it has taken maybe four "replacements" to get to a good box. For the most part these have subsided over the past several months.
I'm not sure why you've had the problems you've posted, as I've been able to call retention [Idaho] and have they set me up with a brand new HR-20 [after a refurb], but I did need to wait several weeks for the installer to come out. Maybe it comes down to a bit of give & take, where I had to wait for something other than the 2-3 day FedEx routine.


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## armophob (Nov 13, 2006)

RunnerFL said:


> I'm not noticing a huge difference in temp between my 700's and my 100, only a few degrees.
> 
> I also don't think the higher temp on the 700 is affecting it's functionality.


I just don't like any of my electronic equipment to be hot to the touch. I thought I read in one of Earl's original descriptions of the -100 and how it ran around 98deg. Is this not the case?


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

armophob said:


> I just don't like any of my electronic equipment to be hot to the touch. I thought I read in one of Earl's original descriptions of the -100 and how it ran around 98deg. Is this not the case?


Mine is running around 104 while my 700's run around 115 with no extra help from any outside fans.


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## ChrisMinCT (Dec 7, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> I guess this would be your definition of "functional". The "how" they get to function might be different, but the end results are the same. Yes there are some design differences between the two, but the "output" functions the same.
> 
> Back to your -700 problems, I have had several [and "twins" right now] that show no design flaws. While there have been manufacturing problems with individual units, a lot of times the issues then turn out to be more system related. I've followed some of your postings, and agree that you have a "bad box". Some "refurbs" have been nothing more than "recycled" bad units sent back to customers to retest, and it has taken maybe four "replacements" to get to a good box. For the most part these have subsided over the past several months.
> I'm not sure why you've had the problems you've posted, as I've been able to call retention [Idaho] and have they set me up with a brand new HR-20 [after a refurb], but I did need to wait several weeks for the installer to come out. Maybe it comes down to a bit of give & take, where I had to wait for something other than the 2-3 day FedEx routine.


All I can say is that 5 boxes in 5 months tells me that there is a fundamental design flaw with the 700. And I have to believe that D* thinks so as well because the 100 is a very different design. I think Earl's "wow" when he opened the 100 and saw how different it was designed told the whole story. And the 700s problems don't seem to be a specific subsystem. I've had 2 different hardware subsystems fail among those 5 boxes and numerous different software failures too. You also should know that I have led the design and implementation teams for several enterprise class streaming media hardware and software systems. I currently work for a streaming media company that holds a number of strategic patents in IP streaming and video conferencing over IP. I know exactly what it takes to build one of these set top boxes. I work with many of the manufacturers of the same chips that are in these boxes.

I've had 4 DirecTivos over the past 7 years. 2 Series1s and 2 Series2s. Not one problem, ever. Not one missed recording. Not one hardware failure. Never a lip sync or audio dropout problem (and yes, I get both of those on SD channels with the HR20). Not one pixel out of place. I have one of my Series2s running now in the absence of my second HR20. Even the D* CSR was surprised - she said "wow, that's an old box." But guess what? It still works perfectly. Its so old that the text is wiped of half the buttons on the remote. And let me tell you, it took me a few days to remember what some of those buttons were!

Immature and untested software systems don't cause tuners to die. And they don't cause graphics processors to stop. So the 700 is not only a beta unit from the software perspective, the hardware design is fundamentally flawed, IMHO. The technical design requirements must have been something like 5 9s of reliability through 25,000 hours of continuous use. I have had an 80% failure rate (4 out of 5 units) in well less than 1,000 hours (just short of 5 months) of total operation.

What level of reliability should I consider acceptable?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

ChrisMinCT said:


> All I can say is that 5 boxes in 5 months tells me that there is a fundamental design flaw with the 700. And I have to believe that D* thinks so as well because the 100 is a very different design. I think Earl's "wow" when he opened the 100 and saw how different it was designed told the whole story. And the 700s problems don't seem to be a specific subsystem. I've had 2 different hardware subsystems fail among those 5 boxes and numerous different software failures too. You also should know that I have led the design and implementation teams for several enterprise class streaming media hardware and software systems. I currently work for a streaming media company that holds a number of strategic patents in IP streaming and video conferencing over IP. I know exactly what it takes to build one of these set top boxes. I work with many of the manufacturers of the same chips that are in these boxes.
> 
> I've had 4 DirecTivos over the past 7 years. 2 Series1s and 2 Series2s. Not one problem, ever. Not one missed recording. Not one hardware failure. Never a lip sync or audio dropout problem (and yes, I get both of those on SD channels with the HR20). Not one pixel out of place. I have one of my Series2s running now in the absence of my second HR20. Even the D* CSR was surprised - she said "wow, that's an old box." But guess what? It still works perfectly. Its so old that the text is wiped of half the buttons on the remote. And let me tell you, it took me a few days to remember what some of those buttons were!
> 
> ...


Like many here you & I have a fairly deep background with equipment very much like this.
I went thought this "crap" a few years ago when I got my first HD D* receiver from Sony. With it there was a design flaw that was corrected when they changed from the HD SAT 200 to the 300.
When I started with the new line of D* HD boxes, I didn't want to repeat the experience I had with the Sony. Well I still did, with the H20-600, H20-100, and "thinking the HR20-700 would be better" I moved into them as they had been "beta tested" before release. Then I had the "joy" of three months of horrible software releases. During this time hearing people say they had no problems.. I was sure there was a design flaw & I've spent 30 years correcting just such things.
I've been monitoring several forums for the past six months, and while there are bad boxes, I find from my own testing & research that there isn't a design flaw, just what seems to be bad parts, bad assembly, lack of testing, etc. Add to this a poorly trained CSR group & installers and most every "problem" has a solution that will last [so far in my testing for months].
Is any of this the way it "should be done"? Of course not, but it is the way this type of equipment is manufactured & has been for some time.
Is this the way I work? Again of course not, but since this is all made to a fixed price, they don't spend the resources that are needed to give you the level you _ expect. It's just a fact of life these days.
Deal with it or not.
I'm sure if one of the companies I used to work for wanted to make one of these that would work every time through all environments, it would cost many thousands of dollars and your life could depend on it.
I don't think the -100 is any different as it too is built to a price. You've had bad experiences with the -700 and over time the same thing could happen with the -100 [as the H20-100 has it's faults over the H20-600 with it's].
Bottom line for me is: I used to have a real pain with mine & D* was sending out a replacement every month. Now I don't & for the most part every unit I had suffered from just bad software. I've also corrected every installer's mistake too.
I can help, or not. I've helped others with "real pigs" and turned them around to behaving as they should. YMMV _


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## armophob (Nov 13, 2006)

RunnerFL said:


> Mine is running around 104 while my 700's run around 115 with no extra help from any outside fans.


Both of my -700's in a 74deg house on open racks run 127 without the targus mat I had to put on each. Both are very warm to the touch without the help. I would love to have a -100 to play with to compare. A may end up with a "defefective" unit soon.


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## ChrisMinCT (Dec 7, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> Deal with it or not.


The problem is, I have no choice. If the 100 has not corrected the hardware flaws, then I'd prefer to just send back the HR20s and go back to using the Series2s. I'm even willing to take a pro-rated refund and pay for the use of them for the time I've had them. I asked what I thought was a simple thing. Send me a 100, not a 700. I was willing to keep trying. They agreed to do that. But only if I bought it and then they credited my account the purchase price. They told me that was the only way to guarantee me a new 100. I waited a week without a working receiver for this. Then they backed out on the deal. They canceled the order and told me there was no option for me to get a new 100 or even a new 700. And they didn't have a refurb to send me on Friday. So I'm royally screwed. I have a dead $300 HR20 and no way to replace it. They wouldn't even reactivate my Series2 at no charge. I have to pay for that as a 3rd receiver and I have to pay for TiVo service again. Highway robbery if you ask me.

I asked to just go back to my Series2s. But they won't let me. They are forcing me to honor a two year contract for 2 HR20s. So what's a guy to do? Get reamed for $1,000 bucks and leave it at that? Not me. I'm going to make one more call to them tomorrow to see if this can be resolved, and if it isn't, I'm going to have my day in court.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

ChrisMinCT said:


> The problem is, I have no choice. If the 100 has not corrected the hardware flaws, then I'd prefer to just send back the HR20s and go back to using the Series2s. I'm even willing to take a pro-rated refund and pay for the use of them for the time I've had them. I asked what I thought was a simple thing. Send me a 100, not a 700. I was willing to keep trying. They agreed to do that. But only if I bought it and then they credited my account the purchase price. They told me that was the only way to guarantee me a new 100. I waited a week without a working receiver for this. Then they backed out on the deal. They canceled the order and told me there was no option for me to get a new 100 or even a new 700. And they didn't have a refurb to send me on Friday. So I'm royally screwed. I have a dead $300 HR20 and no way to replace it. They wouldn't even reactivate my Series2 at no charge. I have to pay for that as a 3rd receiver and I have to pay for TiVo service again. Highway robbery if you ask me.
> I asked to just go back to my Series2s. But they won't let me. They are forcing me to honor a two year contract for 2 HR20s. So what's a guy to do? Get reamed for $1,000 bucks and leave it at that? Not me. I'm going to make one more call to them tomorrow to see if this can be resolved, and if it isn't, I'm going to have my day in court.


I hope you know I've been agreeing with you throughout your postings. My "worst case" with D* took 28 hours on the phone to them over a two week time frame. I will never do that again.
The two year commitment hasn't been broken yet [that I know of]. If I can no longer get their signals, after a service call to verify it, D* says they will let me out of it without penalty.
You might want to read some of the -100 postings, as the more of them installed, the more members are posting similar complaints.
I'm sure all you want is a good working unit, which you should have..period.
My last call [of the 28 hour marathon] took about 10 min to resolve it. The right person, at the right computer, in the right department.
So you have one working HR-20 & one that doesn't, right?
Calls to customer retention, or tier 2 tech support, should be the departments [or way to go] to contact. Sending out a "used" replacement is step one, I have had them next set me up with a "new" box, but this either comes from a retail store or an installer [where D* did credit my account].
Most of the time I do get someone willing to help me, but there are the times when I get a "dud" and the best thing to do is say "thank you", take a break & then call back. I will not go through what I did before, when another call or two can make all of the difference.


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## ChrisMinCT (Dec 7, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> I hope you know I've been agreeing with you throughout your postings. My "worst case" with D* took 28 hours on the phone to them over a two week time frame. I will never do that again.


Absolutely I know that you have been agreeing with me here.

What I have been trying to keep an eye out for is hardware failures with the 100s. Yes, the software is equally quirky as the 700. But what I'm not seeing is the hardware failures. Maybe they're too new still, or maybe I'm missing posts along those lines. Not sure. But willing to give them a try based on what I've seen so far.

IMHO, if the 700s were up to snuff, D* would just keep manufacturing them and not come up with a new model. As you know, there are an infinite number of assembly shops that could make 700s in massive quantities. But what D* chose to do instead was make another model. And they hired a company to do that which has experience making DirecTiVos. And their design changes are more than changing components that have not proven themselves reliable in the field or reducing COGs. Obviously, one of the design change requirements was that the new unit ran cooler. That's interesting to me because the 700 temps are well within tolerances of the components.

If the hardware on the 100s is more reliable, I can wait out the quirks with the beta software and lack of performance optimization. I can pretty much plot that course and timeline based on what they have achieved in the last several months, and I can hang in there that long.

Interesting sidenote: The season pass on the Series2 recorded Stargate Atlantis Friday night. The Series Link on the HR20 didn't. They are both set up for first runs. No conflicts. The HR20 was on standby with nothing else set to record.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

I don't have any "inside info", but think the -100 was to increase production more than create a new design. Each manufacturer is "free" to meet the specs their own way.
The -700 is still in production both in China & Mexico. The -100 has been around less than a month [Mexico also]. Frankly, it seems D* can't keep enough of them in stock for new customers. The -100 had the advantage of starting out with the software that was "pioneered" with the -700, and hasn't had to suffer from at least six months of horrible releases.
Since "we're all" on the outside looking in, nobody really knows..


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## ChrisMinCT (Dec 7, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> Since "we're all" on the outside looking in, nobody really knows..


I'll be checking that out this week. I have contacts inside RCA who will know. I'll let you know what I find out.


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## ChrisMinCT (Dec 7, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> I don't have any "inside info", but think the -100 was to increase production more than create a new design. Each manufacturer is "free" to meet the specs their own way.
> The -700 is still in production both in China & Mexico. The -100 has been around less than a month [Mexico also]. Frankly, it seems D* can't keep enough of them in stock for new customers. The -100 had the advantage of starting out with the software that was "pioneered" with the -700, and hasn't had to suffer from at least six months of horrible releases.
> Since "we're all" on the outside looking in, nobody really knows..


Two thoughts on this as well. If all they were looking to do was bolster production, I don't think they would (a) choose RCA/Thompson - there are much less expensive assembly shops who can screw together an existing design; and (b) they would require support of the existing firmware - if you're only motive is to increase production, why task your already overburdened software engineering team with the need to make a new firmware version? That doesn't make sense to me, anyway.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

ChrisMinCT said:


> Two thoughts on this as well. If all they were looking to do was bolster production, I don't think they would (a) choose RCA/Thompson - there are much less expensive assembly shops who can screw together an existing design; and (b) they would require support of the existing firmware - if you're only motive is to increase production, why task your already overburdened software engineering team with the need to make a new firmware version? That doesn't make sense to me, anyway.


I'm not privy to the "why" of a lot [any] of D* decisions, but RCA/Thompson was been making units for D* for a long time, & the -100 was designed with a version of software that was used on the -700. It is the updates, or evolution of the software that right now have become a slight variation. Also they were/are making the H20.


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## darrin1471 (Aug 18, 2006)

ChrisMinCT said:


> Two thoughts on this as well. If all they were looking to do was bolster production, I don't think they would (a) choose RCA/Thompson - there are much less expensive assembly shops who can screw together an existing design; and (b) they would require support of the existing firmware - if you're only motive is to increase production, why task your already overburdened software engineering team with the need to make a new firmware version? That doesn't make sense to me, anyway.


I would agree that DirecTV did not take on RCA/Thomson primarily to increase production. DirecTV use multiple vendors to compete against each other within defined parameters in order to stimulate innovations and reduce hardware costs.
The HR20 is an advanced mass produced stb which has been the collective work of hundreds of hardware and software companies. Much of this software and the hardware components are shared between the hardware manufactures, so the Thompson HR20 should have benefited from the Pace's HR20 experience.


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## dedicated12 (Jun 13, 2007)

newbie question: can anyone tell me how to determine what software version my hr20 has? thanks


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## Michael D'Angelo (Oct 21, 2006)

dedicated12 said:


> newbie question: can anyone tell me how to determine what software version my hr20 has? thanks


:welcome_s to DBStalk

Hold down the info button on the remote for 3 seconds and the info screen will come up and tell you there.


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## dedicated12 (Jun 13, 2007)

thanks!!


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## synchros (Jun 28, 2007)

According to a friend who is an engineer at the Thomson facility in Indianapolis, the Thomson group there is a really solid engineering house. They take longer to develop, but their boxes are decidedly better engineered.

Were I picking, I'd go with a HR20-100 over the other options...

(new to this board, but not new to the tech)


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## BrettStah (Feb 7, 2003)

synchros said:


> According to a friend who is an engineer at the Thomson facility in Indianapolis, the Thomson group there is a really solid engineering house. They take longer to develop, but their boxes are decidedly better engineered.
> 
> Were I picking, I'd go with a HR20-100 over the other options...
> 
> (new to this board, but not new to the tech)


So, a guy who works at Thompson as an engineer says that the engineering group at Thompson is top notch... at least it's from an unbiased source!


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

I have a good friend who's better half, had an ongoing affair, with someone who worked for PACE, who says they do too.

BTW: the more -100s that are coming in to the market, the more the problems are sounding like the -700.
I don't think there are design problems but both show manufacturing defects.


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## Duffinator (Oct 25, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> I have a good friend who's better half, had an ongoing affair, with someone who worked for PACE, who says they do too.
> 
> BTW: the more -100s that are coming in to the market, the more the problems are sounding like the -700.
> I don't think there are design problems but both show manufacturing defects.


So as a person who has a friend who actually has a better half that likes to have affairs you're saying the 100 has less problems than the 700?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Duffinator said:


> So as a person who has a friend who actually has a better half that likes to have affairs you're saying the 100 has less problems than the 700?


per capita they are looking the same. 
Only with CID would I say there is a difference, with the -100 pulling ahead [no, not giving....].


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## pauper (Aug 22, 2007)

Hello all!! A newbie to the world of HDTV and Directv. 

I started with the hr20-100 upon the install and the darn box would nto turn on. It took all of a half hour to get going. Then I asked for a replacement cuz the darn thing kept freezing on me. They sent a refurb that turned on. Then they did the stupidest thing and sent me another replacement box that I did nto need and this one is the 700 model NEWLY MANUFACTURED ON 6/27/07.

Now I am confused. when I get home, which should I hook up and what are the REAL differences between the newly manufactured 700 and the refurb 100. I CANT BELIEVE THEY HAVE REFURBS ALREADY ON THE 100...

Thanks fella


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## Duffinator (Oct 25, 2006)

pauper said:


> I CANT BELIEVE THEY HAVE REFURBS ALREADY ON THE 100...
> 
> Thanks fella


What do you mean already? They've been out for months. 

Just try them both and see which one works.


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